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  *Comments on the 2009 Ford 300:*
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  1.   CFob posted:
  11.21.2009 - 9:15 pm
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I hope Diva is happy with himself. Punted Brad Keselowski to prove what?
That he is the bigger man? All he did was get laughed at by the 88 crew.

Kyle Busch had an amazing run, but Carl Edwards made it exciting at the end.

I hope NASCAR does what they've done in years past and park Hamlin for
the Cup race, that guy is far too unbalanced to be racing out there.


  2.   Mike posted:
  11.21.2009 - 9:19 pm
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Brad's post race interview was golden. This kid is the next big thing in
our sport.

Not going to send out my congratulations to a Cup driver winning a minor
league championship. The true Nationwide champion is Brad Keselowski.

Mike Bliss about choked away his top 5 points finish but was able to
recover from the speeding penalty and finish 16th. Damn impressive
considering how many rides he's been in this year.

The only reason I'm going to follow Nationwide next year is because of
Brad and Kelly Bires. Speaking of Kelly, he had a solid top 15 run going
until he got a flat tire. Good outing to build on despite the finish.


  3.   Bronco posted:
  11.21.2009 - 9:30 pm
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"I hope Diva is happy with himself. Punted Brad Keselowski to prove
what? That he is the bigger man? All he did was get laughed at by the 88
crew."

Nah, I think the 88 crew was laughhing their asses off at how their
driver spun himself out. Denny Hamlin is the man for living up to what
he said he would do

"I hope NASCAR does what they've done in years past and park Hamlin for
the Cup race, that guy is far too unbalanced to be racing out there."

If NASCAR were to park Krashalotski for the all the mayhem that's he
caused, he wouldn't even get to race next season.

"This kid is the next big thing in our sport."

The only thing big about him are the wrecks that he causes.

Great run for Steve Wallace, who picks up highest finishing Nationwide
driver honors. Phoenix racing oddly enough puts Mike Bliss in the car
for Homestead despite firing him in the summer, and Mike hangs on to
fifth in points.

John Wrecks Weekly seems to be showing improvement by not crashing for
the third straight week.

Kligerman shockingly DNQs for this race, after winning the pole earlier
at Kansas, so he buys a ride from Todd Bodine to make the race.

And Shrub wins a championship that was pretty much a joke right from the
beginning, making him the fourth straight Cup driver to do so. Since he
won't be running the full season next year, might as well just hand over
next year's championship to Carl Edwards, rather than see him pull out
to a 700 point lead.


  4.   New 14&88 Fan posted:
  11.21.2009 - 9:32 pm
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Diva Hamlin and ESPN can all eat shit for all I care,all through out the
race all you heard was the ESPN crew egging the Diva on to "pay back"
Keselowski...and when he finally did the deed and got penalized a
lap(which he easily got back through the lucky dog,that's teaching 'em
NA$CAR)they were practically begging for Brad to get back at
Denny...fortunately he and his team kept their cool and managed to come
out with a Top-15 and kept 3rd in points.Of course after the race the
Diva crowed about how "everyone in the stands and all the teams on pit
road were cheering and clapping" spewing out bullshit like he was a
damned hero who'd just saved the entire friggin' country...Hey Diva how
about CONCENTRATING ON TRYING TO CATCH UP TO THE 48 TEAM IN CUP INSTEAD
OF GETTING INTO PISSY FITS WITH DRIVERS IN A LOWER SERIES JUST TO FEED
YOUR OWN DAMNED EGO BECAUSE THEY OMG RACED YOU IN A DAMN RACE!!!


Congrats to Justin Allgaier on winning Rookie of the Year,good runs for
Wallace, Scott Speed, and Brendan Gaughan too.


  5.   New 14&88 Fan posted:
  11.21.2009 - 9:42 pm
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"I hope Diva is happy with himself. Punted Brad Keselowski to prove
what? That he is the bigger man? All he did was get laughed at by the 88
crew."


The way the handled that "payback" from the Diva was classic,even Brad
was laughing over the radio and just told his guys he'd race to get back
to the front.And his interview after the race was excellent, he refused
to take ESPN's bait and just brushed the incident aside while Diva just
shot off his mouth like a bitchy pop star wanna be who'd won on American
Idol.


"I hope NASCAR does what they've done in years past and park Hamlin for
the Cup race, that guy is far too unbalanced to be racing out there."


Maybe better,he'd go out tomorrow and get lapped twice by the 48(like at
Dover,that's only time I cheered for JJ)of course he'd probably blame it
on his team like always.


  6.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  11.21.2009 - 9:46 pm
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Denny Hamlin tries wrecking Keselowski after he said last week that he
was going to do it. Unfortunately for him, he gets penalized by NASCAR
(did you really think you were going to get away with it after NASCAR
said they'd be monitoring the feud?) And Brad ends up saving his car
from hitting anything.

I loved Brad's post-race interview. It was right on. He pretty much
summed up what I've thought about Diva since 2007. I was a fan of his
during his rookie year in Cup, but have since lost all respect for him.
From public bashing of his team to going down into a lower series and
griping about NW regulars, he never ceases to amaze me.

Great finish, though! Carl almost got Kyle for the win. At least we get
to look forward to seeing a familiar Cup driver once again win the title
next year. Oh, wait. That's not a good thing... *sigh*


  7.   rw posted:
  11.21.2009 - 9:47 pm
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Good to see Steve Wallace finish in the Top 10 in points!!!

and Michael Annett!

"I hope NASCAR does what they've done in years past and park Hamlin for
the Cup race, that guy is far too unbalanced to be racing out there."

Nascar doesnt even have the balls to do it anymore, as far as I'm
concerned, theyve made drivers more wimpier and they make such a big
deal out of a stupid 10,000 dollar fine, that's why Brad is easily going
to be a driver that has the balls like Big E had to show drivers he can
beat and bang with the best.

As for Hamlin, they show suspend him for tomorrow's race, he nearly took
out the whole field with that stupid move of him.


  8.   luigistarted06 posted:
  11.21.2009 - 9:54 pm
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Man, too me Denny is simply out of his mind. He walks around and talks
like he thinks he's Dale Sr or something. After the race he just sounded
like an overly cocky punk, like he is leading this voyage against Brad K
and this is just the first domino to fall. He should be suspended for
tomorrows race. Not because he spun Brad, but to get his mental health
checked. I sure as hell didn't see anyone in the stands "cheer him on"

Oh, and awesome save by Brad! What a driver huh


  9.   Dodge posted:
  11.21.2009 - 10:12 pm
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I also believe that Diva should be SUSPENDED but am not counting on it.
I thought that if you got a rough driving penalty, you were not eligible
to get a Lucky Dog Free Pass. Who else was surprised? To only get ONE
lap penalty was a joke. I immediately believed considering what Diva
said last week he should of been PARKED. What would of been funny is
that since every incident Diva was in a Gibbs car if the 11 ended up
with a lot of damage for their own driver acting like an idiot.


  10.   CFob posted:
  11.21.2009 - 11:00 pm
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"Nah, I think the 88 crew was laughhing their asses off at how their
driver spun himself out. Denny Hamlin is the man for living up to what
he said he would do."

Yes, seeking someone out to spin them in front of nearly the entire
field was bad ass! How cool is Diva for being an attention whore?

"If NASCAR were to park Krashalotski for the all the mayhem that's he
caused, he wouldn't even get to race next season."

Yeah, standing up for himself is a suspendable offense. While you
continue to prove your mental deficiency, I find my intelligence
dropping while dealing with you. However, my IQ is almost worth responding.

1) "Krashalotski" isn't going to catch on. Even if you try and be cute
and change the c in crash to a k. Sorry, but it's dumb. Almost like
calling Kyle Busch "Krashyle" and finding it clever because you added an
"-yle" at the end. It makes you look stupid and it makes us feel stupid
having to read your stupidity.

2) Brad has never said he was going to take someone out and then done
it. Brad has done NOTHING to deserve a suspension and I BEG you to find
something that he has done that would merit it. And I'd be five dollars
you were already thinking about the Carl Edwards incident at Memphis.
You can send it in the mail.

"The only thing big about him are the wrecks that he causes."

Epic fail. But how about that near catastrophe Denny Hamlin nearly
caused had Brad not been talented enough to control the spin and keep it
out of the wall (Denny couldn't even stay off the wall and HE was the
one doing the punting).


  11.   Smokefan05 posted:
  11.21.2009 - 11:04 pm
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Note too Diva Hamlin: if your going to wreck someone make sure they
don't come back on the race track. What Diva did didn't proved nothing,
HE DIDN'T HIT ANYTHING!!!!!!!!! If Diva hit him hard enough too wreck
Brad's car then he would have accomplished something but NO he didn't.
He just sent Brad for a spin cycle.

"everyone in the stands and all the teams on pit road were cheering and
clapping"

They weren't cheering because you spun Brad out, they were cheering
because your dumba$$ got sent to the penalty box for 1 lap. Dodge is
right, Diva has destoryied cars too. I didn't hear anybody or see
anybody giving you thumbs up or cheering for ya. It's all in your head.


  12.   18fan posted:
  11.21.2009 - 11:08 pm
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The only problem is people are making too much of Brad. He will be a
great, championship caliber driver, no doubt about it, he just isn't yet.


  13.   Zed 3_88fan4eva posted:
  11.21.2009 - 11:27 pm
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I dont know whether to root for Denny Hamlin for keeping his
word....shocked about what he said in his interview or be pissed that he
punted Keselowski

Thats about all for this race

Well Im gonna do what I did for the trucks

Only 5 drivers (Matt Kenseth, Joe Nemecheck, Jason Leffler, Jason Keller
& Mark Green started tonights race and the 2000 Napa 300 to start the decade

Stat leaders of the decade

Starts: Jason Keller (303 of 343 races)
Wins: Kevin Harvick (34)
Top 5's: Kevin Harvick (120)
Top 10's: Kevin Harvick (168)
Poles: Kevin Harvick (19)
Avg. Finish: Kevin Harvick (8.71)
Avg. Start: Kyle Busch (9.35)
Earnings: Kevin Harvick (11,090,751)

500 drivers started a Busch/Nationwide race in this decade
59 Drivers went to victory lane
82 Drivers won a pole
186 Drivers led at least one lap

Best Race of the decade: 2004 Pepsi 300 at Nashville
Busch/Nationwide driver of the decade: Kevin Harvick


  14.   SoxFan24 posted:
  11.21.2009 - 11:56 pm
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Denny Hamlin should be suspended for Sunday's Cup Race. Kevin Harvick
was suspended for this. Robby Gordon was suspended at Pocono a few years
ago after an incident with Marcos Ambrose. Complete bullshit on NASCAR'S
part and this sets a bad example. The only reason why this is a big deal
is he blatently said on the radio last week that he was going to take
out Brad K next chance he got and he did it. Then he has the audacity to
say that "the sun was in my eye so that will be my excuse" I couldn't
believe what I heard. He should not race in the Cup race Sunday and I
cannot believe this is being allowed. Joe Gibbs has two complete cunts
driving for him and probably one in training in Logano.

Nevertheless congrats to Kyle Busch for winning the title. I'm glad he
won the race because if he hadn't he probably would have left early and
not celebrated the title. He wanted to park his truck in yesterday's
truck race because he couldn't win but was talked out of it.

For all the Carl Edwards bashers on this site I also want to
congratulate him. Carl could've taken out Kyle in turn 3 but decided he
didn't want to race that way. I guarrantee you if it was the other way
around Edwards would still be getting concrete dust off of him after the
race

There are some milestones for this race I'd like to touch on if I could

Barring sponsorship, this could be the last race for the CJM racing team
(car 11) as reported on the ESPN 2 telecast

Last race for Brad Keselowski driving for JR Motorsports. The results
speak for themselves

Like the truck series, the Nationwide Series is in for some big changes
in the offseason and who exactly knows who will be in Daytona when the
series goes there in Febuary. I'd like to see a full field of
competitive cars but unfortunately those days may be way behind us.


  15.   Anonymous posted:
  11.22.2009 - 12:25 am
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My thoughts on Hamlin hasn't changed. I am not that big on him and I
consider him one of the top 5 immature drivers in the cup Series.

Nascar should suspend him, but they wouldn't.

Hamlin has the capabilities to win a cup championship, but he wouldn't
because of his maturity.

Hamlin thinks he is one of the greatest drivers in Nascar, but the truth
is he's underachieving.

Denny never won a cookie cutter cup race, and a road course. Hamlin has
7 wins, but he has cost himself wins when his pit crew doesn't. The way
it look, Denny Hamlin's racing career will be overshadowed when his
career is over by current cup drivers Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Tony
Stewart, Kyle Busch, Mark Martin, Carl Edwards,and Kasey Khane for an
example. Hamlin will have a chase to win a championship in 10 years when
Jimmie should be near the end of prime or Jimmie retires by then.


  16.   18fan posted:
  11.22.2009 - 12:52 am
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Carl has always been a classy driver. He does have a more wild side off
the track at times, but does a ton of charity work and is one of the
nicest guys in the garage.


  17.   Matt posted:
  11.22.2009 - 1:20 am
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Denny Hamlin once again proves what a lowlife piece of crap he is. The
guy isn't bright enough to lock the gate in front of his house and keep
his personal cars from being stolen, let alone strap into a racecar. He
should be changing oil somewhere, not driving in Sprint Cup.


  18.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 2:26 am
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"Hey Diva how about CONCENTRATING ON TRYING TO CATCH UP TO THE 48 TEAM
IN CUP"

What's there to catch up with? The 48 team has the championship in the
bag, and the only thing Hamlin can do is move up a spot or two in points.

"Krashalotski" isn't going to catch on"

If you don't like Krashalotski, there are several other appropriate
names for the former driver of the #88 Chevy. Wreckalotski,
Causeawreckski, Bumper Brad, Bulldozer Brad, take your pick.

"It makes you look stupid and it makes us feel stupid having to read
your stupidity."

It's a free country buddy, no one is forcing you to read or respond to
any of my comments.

"Carl has always been a classy driver. He does have a more wild side off
the track at times, but does a ton of charity work and is one of the
nicest guys in the garage."

I agree completely. Carl is a great representative for the sport. I
can't believe how some people think he has a "fake" personality.

"Hamlin thinks he is one of the greatest drivers in Nascar, but the
truth is he's underachieving."

You know what, you're absolutely right. Denny Hamlin has done nothing in
Cup, except win ROTY, qualify for the cha$e as a rookie (when his more
experienced teammate didn't), make the cha$e every year he has driven in
Cup, and win on the so called "driver tracks" (Martinsville, Pocono,
Richmond etc). And he also has a Bud Shootout win and a Gatorade Duel
win on his resume. And he did it all with a new team that was struggling
before he started driving for them.

And so what if he hasn't won on a road course? Even Jimmie Johnson
doesn't have one of those. As for cookie cutters, he's bound to get one
soon.


  19.   CFob posted:
  11.22.2009 - 4:04 am
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"What's there to catch up with? The 48 team has the championship in the
bag, and the only thing Hamlin can do is move up a spot or two in points."

There's more to catching a team than just the current season, focusing
on the next year is also a good idea when the title is out of reach.

"If you don't like Krashalotski, there are several other appropriate
names for the former driver of the #88 Chevy. Wreckalotski,
Causeawreckski, Bumper Brad, Bulldozer Brad, take your pick."

Seriously, adding "-ski" to a Crashing related word or phrase isn't a
nickname, and it's borderline insulting to the Polish.

"It's a free country buddy, no one is forcing you to read or respond to
any of my comments."

It's not a truly free country and your inane comments tend to draw me
in, much like ones gaze is drawn to a car accident.

"I agree completely. Carl is a great representative for the sport. I
can't believe how some people think he has a "fake" personality."

How does how good a driver is have anything to do with his personality.
He's either a Huck Finn-esque caricature of a Southerner OR he is a
fake. Seeing him draw a fist on Matt Kenseth makes me lean towards being
a fake much more so than him being an "Aw Shucks!" country boy.

"You know what, you're absolutely right. Denny Hamlin has done nothing
in Cup, except win ROTY, qualify for the cha$e as a rookie (when his
more experienced teammate didn't), make the cha$e every year he has
driven in Cup, and win on the so called "driver tracks" (Martinsville,
Pocono, Richmond etc). And he also has a Bud Shootout win and a Gatorade
Duel win on his resume. And he did it all with a new team that was
struggling before he started driving for them."

He did have an amazing rookie year, in fact I was still a fan then. Too
bad he became such a douche. And based on points and average finish he
peaked in his rookie season. It's been all downhill ever since.


  20.   The Real Thomas posted:
  11.22.2009 - 6:29 am
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I've never seen a more polarizing debate on this site about anything
than the Keselowski/Hamlin deal. That's kind of hard to believe, for me
anyway. Now for my 2 cents. This season was a joke, plain and simple. I
hate Kyle Busch, and like Carl Edwards, but neither should be running
the full Nationwide season. Keselowski is a joke too. He's punted many
guys on purpose or over aggressively made contact this season and has
gotten away with it, including the blatant punt of Hamlin last week at
Phoenix which could have resulted in a huge wreck, but luckily didn't.
Hamlin had his share of contact when he was younger, but he has matured
greatly and it's about time someone started standing up for themselves
in this world. The only unfortunate part of today's race, besides Kyle
Busch winning, was that Keselowski didn't hit the wall. Somebody has to
teach him a lesson if NA$CAR won't. He'll be a mid-packer wrecking ball
in the Penske #12 next year. The only good thing is that I don't think
Roger Penske will put up with his attitude or driving tactics or allow
his crew to mindlessly cheer whenever someone cashes in their chips on
him next time. Hamlin should wreck him tomorrow in the Cup race and see
what happens. Hamlin doesn't have anything to lose at this point, so
what if they park him. If NA$CAR started parking people all the time for
purposeful/dumb contact, Crashelowski wouldn't be eligible to race until
about Charlotte in May next year.


  21.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 10:40 am
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"It's not a truly free country and your inane comments tend to draw me
in, much like ones gaze is drawn to a car accident."

I can't help it if my comments draw you in, can I? If you don't like me
speaking up for Denny Hamlin and called BK names that he richly
deserves, then don't respond to my posts.

Seeing him draw a fist on Matt Kenseth makes me lean towards being a
fake much more so than him being an "Aw Shucks!" country boy."

Ok, so Carl threw a fake punch at Kenseth, roughed up Earnhardt Jr after
a Busch race, and got into a brawl with Harvick at the Charlotte garage.
So what? I guess you've never been pissed off before and done things
that you later regretted. Carl always praises his crew and never throws
them under the bus, he always thanks the fans, he shows respect to the
media and his fellow competitors and does a ton of charity work for
underprivileged children, so I think it's pretty safe to say he's a nice
guy and a class act overall.

I personally hope this feud is over and that it doesn't carry into next
year. I would hate to see other guys get caught up in wrecks not of
their own doing if Hamlin/Causeawreckski start spinning each other out
on a weekly basis.


  22.   Smokefan05 posted:
  11.22.2009 - 12:05 pm
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"Seriously, adding "-ski" to a Crashing related word or phrase isn't a
nickname, and it's borderline insulting to the Polish."

Common sense: something so rare it's a super power. ;)

"BK names that he richly deserves"

Then so does Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch for how they act, fair is fair
right?


  23.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.22.2009 - 12:20 pm
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"Hey Diva how about CONCENTRATING ON TRYING TO CATCH UP TO THE 48 TEAM
IN CUP INSTEAD OF GETTING INTO PISSY FITS WITH DRIVERS IN A LOWER SERIES
JUST TO FEED YOUR OWN DAMNED EGO BECAUSE THEY OMG RACED YOU IN A DAMN
RACE!!!"

Exactly. Once again, Brad comes outlooking like the mature one, the
truly stoic guy. They guy I've been waiting for for almost 9 years*.
First of all, HE DIDN'T HIT ANYTHING! He looks like a hero for saving
it. No harm, no foul. He even laughed it off WHILE IT WAS HAPPENING!!!
Way to ruffle somebody's feathers there Diva. But I guess if it takes
your mind off the fact that a driver with less talent than you with only
slightly better equipment (Jimmie Johnson) is about to win his fourth
straight CUP title and will most likely have his fiftieth CUP win before
next summer while you are stuck in the single digits (I know he has been
raing for 4 years less than JJ, but single digits compared to almost 50?
Onwership!) then so be it. BTW, his teammate won more races last year
alone than Denny has in 4 years.

His interview made me feel sad for him. Here is a talented Cup driver
with 3 wins this year with an established team and a big $$$ sponsor and
he acts like a conquering hero for spinning out a Nationwide driver in a
Nationwide race. He really thought he was something (even though Brad
didn't hit anything, laughed it off in the car and totally brushed it
aside in his interview). He really does have some issues. Hopefully this
will make him feel better in Vegas when he watched JJ accept all the
important accolades for the fourth consecutive year, or when he realizes
that every year of his career he has had a teammate score more wins than
him, usually by a large margain (06: Stewart 5, Dvia 2; 07: Stewart 3,
Diva 1; 08: Kyle 8, Diva 1; 09: Kyle 4 (a bad year for him), Diva 3 (his
best year yet)).

* Look, I am not looking for another Dale Sr. There is only one and
there will only ever be one. Just like there is only one King,
Yarborough, Bobby Allison, Pearson, or Davey Allison. I just want to be
inspired by a NASCAR driver again. I have lived in North Carolina my
whole life. When I was a little kid in the late 80s, we had college
basketball and NASCAR. That was it. So for me, it was Tar Heel hoops and
Dale Earnhardt. He just made me never want to miss a NASCAR race. In
him, I saw what I wanted to be.

And now, for the first time since we lost Dale, I see someone that
reaches through the TV and grabs me. It is NOT for the same reasons that
Dale Sr did (though some are the same), but he reaches me. I DON'T WANT
HIM TO BE DALE SR! I cannot say this strongly enough. I want him to be
Brad Keselowski. Nobody can ever live up to Dale Sr as far as on track
and off track appeal. If I were to try to find another Dale Sr, I would
only be disappointed. I want him to be unique, like he is now. But there
are elements of similar to Dale Sr that grab me the way they grabbed me
when Big E did them. The way he doesn't take any shit, the way he isn't
afraid to go after the top dogs, and the way he brushes it all aside in
his interviews and shows that "I still own your ass" smirk afterwards.
He isn't Dale Sr, he is Brad Keselowski, and I wouldn't have it any
other way.


  24.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.22.2009 - 12:30 pm
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Here are some nicknames for Brad K:

-The Guy Who Made JR Motorsports Relevant
-The Guy Who Won A Cup Race For A Start And Park Team
-The Only Guy Who Can Consistently Challenge The Gibbs Toyotas In NWide
-The Only Guy Driving A Chevrolet In The NWide Series Over The Last Two
Years To Win Consistently.
-The Guy Tony Stewart Will Regret Not Making Room For In The Future When
He Realizes That A Team Of Ryan Newman, Kevin Harvick, And Himself
Aren't Exactly The Best Thing In The World For Team Morale
-Diva Hamlin's Daddy
-The Guy Who Exposed Diva Hamlin As The Prima Donna That He Is
-The Guy Whose Big Break At The Memphis Truck Race Ended With Him Being
Spun Out By Kvapil At The End Yet He Didn't Bitch And Whine About It
Afterwards Like The Cup Guys Do About Him


  25.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.22.2009 - 12:35 pm
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"I've never seen a more polarizing debate on this site about anything
than the Keselowski/Hamlin deal."

Actually it's not all that polarizing. We have one guy defending Diva,
and everyone else blasting him.

But I agree this season was a joke. How Kyle can take any pride in this
is beyond me. I think deep down he doesn't, he just needs to keep
inflating his "NASCAR win total" to feel better about constantly being
owned by JJ in the CUP series. He has a serious inferiority complex and
needs all these non-essential wins to have something to point to. He
just needs to try to forget JJ has 4 shiny silver trophies to point to.


  26.   CFob posted:
  11.22.2009 - 12:40 pm
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"I can't help it if my comments draw you in, can I? If you don't like me
speaking up for Denny Hamlin and called BK names that he richly
deserves, then don't respond to my posts."

My issues aren't with your opinion of Denny or your posts. My issue is
with the fact that the overall stupidity of your "-ski" names makes ALL
of us look dumb for dealing with you. I'm trying to help us by helping
you, and if that concept is too far over your head, well, we're just
gonna have to be less tolerant of that idiocy you've so openly shown.

"Ok, so Carl threw a fake punch at Kenseth, roughed up Earnhardt Jr
after a Busch race, and got into a brawl with Harvick at the Charlotte
garage. So what? I guess you've never been pissed off before and done
things that you later regretted. Carl always praises his crew and never
throws them under the bus, he always thanks the fans, he shows respect
to the media and his fellow competitors and does a ton of charity work
for underprivileged children, so I think it's pretty safe to say he's a
nice guy and a class act overall."

See, I've been angry before. But when angry I've never done anything I
regret because I have restraint. Instead of getting into a fight, I
don't. I guess it's some sort of mental disorder, but I can control
myself. It's a shame Carl can't. And don't get me wrong, his work with
the underprivileged is admirable. However, as I've mentioned in the
past, doing good things and being a fake are not mutually exclusive
concepts. You can do and be both.

If someone regularly participate in charity fundraising events to help
the poor / needy, respects his peers, and then goes home to a basement
full of bodies they have personally strangled, are they still a class
act? See! Not mutually exclusive concepts. Carl has done great things
for those who need help, and he's a helluva race car driver. However, I
still find him to be a fake.


  27.   Cooper posted:
  11.22.2009 - 12:55 pm
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I think their is a conclusion to all of this. Denny is jealous of Brad.
Denny was supposed to be the new guy in town, he wanted to get all the
attention, but now Brad has taken it away from him and made him look
like a diva, that's why he is trying so hard to beat Brad. He's Jealous.


  28.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 1:08 pm
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"Then so does Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch for how they act, fair is fair
right?"

You're exactly right, there are times when Hamlin and Busch deserve to
be labelled as crybabies. But not in this case.

"First of all, HE DIDN'T HIT ANYTHING! He looks like a hero for saving it."

True, he saved the car, but I know I laughed my ass off when he spun all
by himself and tapped the wall by hitting the throttle kill switch. He
may have looked like a hero for saving the car, but he looked like a
complete zero for spinning out with no help.

"-The Guy Who Won A Cup Race For A Start And Park Team"

We've been over this, he won driving a Hendrick car, complete with a
Hendrick chassis and motor. The only non-Hendrick of the car were the
guys who were pitting it, since they were borrowed from the #1
Nationwide team.

"-The Only Guy Who Can Consistently Challenge The Gibbs Toyotas In NWide"

Um, what about Carl Edwards??

DaleSrFan, it cracks me up everytime you whine about Tony not hiring
Causeawrecksi. Why would he? What can Causeawreckski do for Tony's team
that he can't do already? And other thing - Causeawrecksi wasn't
bringing a sponsor. Given the fact that Newman's car isn't fully
sponsored and that team isn't winning races like the #14 is, it makes no
sense for Tony to expand and take on another driver. But of course, to
you Tony Stewart is somehow "a dumb son of a bitch", right?

And so what if Hamlin has scored less wins than his teammates? Jimmie
Johnson has a whopping 29 wins in his four "championship" season, while
Jeff Gordon only has 9. And hell, Jeff Gordon has the same number of
wins in the past two years as everyone's favorite whipping boy for
underachievement (Dale Jr), and was even outperformed by him in 2008.
The bottom line is some teams (like the 18, and 48) have good luck and
just click better than others do. It doesn't exactly mean their
teammates are underachieving.

"My issue is with the fact that the overall stupidity of your "-ski"
names makes ALL of us look dumb for dealing with you."

Good grief, if you don't like my "-ski" then WHY THE HELL ARE YOU
REPLYING TO MY POSTS???

"See, I've been angry before. But when angry I've never done anything I
regret because I have restraint."

Wow, you're so amazing Cfob, give yourself a cookie. Believe it or not
everyone has the same kind of restraint that you do. Lots of people, not
just racecar drivers say or do things when they're angry that they later
regret.

"If someone regularly participate in charity fundraising events to help
the poor / needy, respects his peers, and then goes home to a basement
full of bodies they have personally strangled, are they still a class act?"

My God, are you actually someone like Carl Edwards (whose biggest crime
is not being able to control his temper) to a murderer with a basement
full of bodies? You're sick, my friend.


  29.   New 14&88 Fan posted:
  11.22.2009 - 1:54 pm
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"You know what, you're absolutely right. Denny Hamlin has done nothing
in Cup, except win ROTY, qualify for the cha$e as a rookie (when his
more experienced teammate didn't), make the cha$e every year he has
driven in Cup, and win on the so called "driver tracks" (Martinsville,
Pocono, Richmond etc). And he also has a Bud Shootout win and a Gatorade
Duel win on his resume. And he did it all with a new team that was
struggling before he started driving for them."


Diva's rookie year was outstanding and no one's taking that away from
him,but since then he's let the success of that year go completely to
his head and now he prances around like he shits gold bricks.Plus he's
willingly going into a lower series and expecting the regulars of that
series to roll over for him and kiss his ass and has the nerve to get
butthurted when one of those series regulars decides to race him because
it's a...dare I say it again...RACE!!


"The only thing big about him are the wrecks that he causes."


Since you love so much pointing out every single wreck Brad causes or
doesn't cause,let me show you a few examples of the mayhem caused by the
Diva over the last few years.


-Went below the yellow line at Dega in his rookie year and took out
seven cars
-Wrecked Kyle Petty at Dover in 07
-Plowed through both David Reutimann and Marcos Ambrose at Pocono this
last summer


  30.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.22.2009 - 1:57 pm
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"True, he saved the car, but I know I laughed my ass off when he spun
all by himself and tapped the wall by hitting the throttle kill switch.
He may have looked like a hero for saving the car, but he looked like a
complete zero for spinning out with no help."

Yet he still finished 12th. If that is what qualifies as a "complete
zero" then there are a lot of them out there. Including Diva who took
himself out of the Cali race and CRASHED. You are really grasping at
straws in trying to criticize Brad K.

"But of course, to you Tony Stewart is somehow "a dumb son of a bitch",
right?"

Yes, and he is to you too. Go to Kevin Harvick's driver page and look at
comment #128.

"Why would he? What can Causeawreckski do for Tony's team that he can't
do already? "

He is a proven Sprint Cup winner and runs well with a part time Hendrick
team. He has a bright future ahead of him. I'm telling you, Tony will
regret this.

"Given the fact that Newman's car isn't fully sponsored and that team
isn't winning races like the #14 is, it makes no sense for Tony to
expand and take on another driver."

Yeah, no need for an extra set of notes to look at and determine the
trends of.


  31.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 2:25 pm
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"Yes, and he is to you too. Go to Kevin Harvick's driver page and look
at comment #128."

LOL at the fact that you had to look up a comment I made months ago, but
to me Tony is dumb for shooting off his mouth and making himself look
bad. You think Tony is dumb for not hiring a driver you root for, which
is laughable.

"He is a proven Sprint Cup winner and runs well with a part time
Hendrick team. He has a bright future ahead of him. I'm telling you,
Tony will regret this."

A proven Sprint Cup winner? Are you shitting me? For God's sakes, he has
ONE win!! How does that make him a "proven" winner?

"He has a bright future ahead of him. I'm telling you, Tony will regret
this."

The only person who will be regretting anything is Causeawreckski when
he realizes that he should have stayed with the #88 team and possibly
won a championship in Nationwide rather than run 20th to 25th each week
with the #12 team in Cup. I don't care how good you think he is, he's
not going to take that mediocre ride and start winning races and making
the cha$e and contending for the championship. It's just not going to
happen, not with Jimmie Johnson, Tony Stewart and Mark Martin trampling
the competition. At best, he'll finish 15th to 20th in points with a few
top tens here and there. In case you haven't noticed, he hasn't exactly
been kicking ass in his two races in the #12 at Texas and Phoenix, even
before the wrecks.

"Yeah, no need for an extra set of notes to look at and determine the
trends of."

Hey genius, if Tony wants an extra set of notes, he has the 5, the 24
and 48 to look at it, and hopefully the 88 when that team gets turned
around. He doesn't need the headache of adding a third car and the
complications that would bring. Tony has more talent than Causeawreckski
so whatever you think Causeawreckski can do in a SHR car, Tony can do it
better.


  32.   WallaceFan posted:
  11.22.2009 - 2:40 pm
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Brad says in his interview he was "over it". Of course he would say
that, since he wrecked Denny everytime. He tried to act like a tough guy
in his interview and said Denny has problems off and on the track and
wont feel good about himself.
DENNY responded by saying HE FELT GREAT. Brad has barely any friends out
there on the track and if he doesnt get his act together, hes going to
have a tough time next year.


  33.   WallaceFan posted:
  11.22.2009 - 2:41 pm
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Great race, great end to the season for Steve. Also great runs for Denny
(lost a lap due to pentalty, still beat Brad), Scott Speed, and Brendan
Gaughan.


  34.   Anonymous posted:
  11.22.2009 - 2:41 pm
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Brad was so scared of Denny that he spun out on his own.


  35.   CFob posted:
  11.22.2009 - 3:06 pm
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"Wow, you're so amazing Cfob, give yourself a cookie. Believe it or not
everyone has the same kind of restraint that you do. Lots of people, not
just racecar drivers say or do things when they're angry that they later
regret."

I'm aware. However, Carl Edwards acts like he is just some good ole boy,
who loves America and his Momma, and then gies around and loses his
temper and does stupid stuff. If he wants to cultivate the image he has,
he should learn some restraint, it's not hard, just a little bit of
thinking. A little more thought could help you too.

"My God, are you actually someone like Carl Edwards (whose biggest crime
is not being able to control his temper) to a murderer with a basement
full of bodies? You're sick, my friend."

No, I'm not comparing someone like Carl Edwards to a murderer. I'm
making the point that someone who does good things can still be a bad
person, since to you Carl Edwards is apparently the closest thing to the
second coming of the Messiah walking this Earth. I'm sorry your reading
comprehension and mastery of context is weak. Maybe you'll learn
someday, miracles happen I suppose.

But if I'm "sick" you're an idiot, so I guess I very well could be sick.

"LOL at the fact that you had to look up a comment I made months ago,
but to me Tony is dumb for shooting off his mouth and making himself
look bad. You think Tony is dumb for not hiring a driver you root for,
which is laughable."

Yeah, doing a small bit of research to save yourself from looking dumb
is stupid! Way to go dummy, making three clicks with your mouse and
scrolling down a page to save yourself from looking like an idiot.
That's stupid.

"True, he saved the car, but I know I laughed my ass off when he spun
all by himself and tapped the wall by hitting the throttle kill switch.
He may have looked like a hero for saving the car, but he looked like a
complete zero for spinning out with no help."

Yeah, drivers make mistakes. And yet he came back to finish 12th,
despite Denny's help later on.

"Good grief, if you don't like my "-ski" then WHY THE HELL ARE YOU
REPLYING TO MY POSTS???"

Consider it an act of charity. I'd hate debating with an idiot, so I'm
trying to help you make yourself look less stupid (admittedly quite a
challenge), but my giving soul just won't let me let you stumble blindly
down the dark and winding path of "Pathetically stupid nicknames."

"In case you haven't noticed, he hasn't exactly been kicking ass in his
two races in the #12 at Texas and Phoenix, even before the wrecks."

This year isn't about "kicking ass." This year is about getting him
acclimated to the 12 team. Just like when Jimmie Johnson raced the 48 a
few times in 2001, just like when Jeff Gordon ran the fall Atlanta race
in 1992. Those two didn't set the world on fire in their initial starts.

"Hey genius, if Tony wants an extra set of notes, he has the 5, the 24
and 48 to look at it, and hopefully the 88 when that team gets turned
around. He doesn't need the headache of adding a third car and the
complications that would bring. Tony has more talent than Causeawreckski
so whatever you think Causeawreckski can do in a SHR car, Tony can do it
better. "

Hey genius, having MORE notes to look off of help. If you take 5 notes
in preparation for a test, and someone else takes 25, who do you think
will do better when the test comes up? So, his argument is valid.

And Tony Stewart has more talent then someone!? Are you kidding me!? How
can you be serious!!??!? Someone who has 37 Cup races, 2 Cup
Championships AND an IRL Championship has more talent than a kid who
less than five years removed from racing local short tracks!? World
Class Race Car Driver Tony Stewart who already has ahd a Hall of Fame
Worthy career is MORE Talented than Brad Keselowski!?

You gotta be shitting me!!

"Brad was so scared of Denny that he spun out on his own. "

And then he and his crew all had a good laugh at Denny's expense.

"rad says in his interview he was "over it". Of course he would say
that, since he wrecked Denny everytime. He tried to act like a tough guy
in his interview and said Denny has problems off and on the track and
wont feel good about himself.
DENNY responded by saying HE FELT GREAT. Brad has barely any friends out
there on the track and if he doesnt get his act together, hes going to
have a tough time next year. "

Yes, Brad wrecked Denny every time, because he was retaliating when
Denny hit him first. Brad would be a much more admirable driver if he
just laid down and acted like everyones bitch, right?


  36.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 3:47 pm
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"However, Carl Edwards acts like he is just some good ole boy, who loves
America and his Momma, and then gies around and loses his temper and
does stupid stuff."

Big shit, so Carl loses his temper once in a while. No one is pefect,
hard as it may be for you to believe. A few "roid rage" incidents, as
some people put it doesn't take away from all the good things Carl has
done. Carl even visited the fans who were hurt by flying debris at
Talladega in April. Did Causeawreckski do any of that? No, because he
was too busy planning on what the next wreck he would cause would look like.

"Yeah, drivers make mistakes. And yet he came back to finish 12th,
despite Denny's help later on."

Not exactly hard to come back and finish 12th when you drive for
Hendrick and almost everyone else is in cars from underfunded teams.

"Brad would be a much more admirable driver if he just laid down and
acted like everyones bitch, right?"

Who said anything about being someone's bitch? You stupid idiot, you act
like people have been constantly bullying Causeawreckski all throughtout
his career and that he's no retaliating. What was Causeawreckski's
excuse for spinning out Hamlin last week? Sure, Hamlin bumped him first,
and Keselowski bumped him back. The contact should have ended then and
there. Instead Causeawrecksi pushed the issue further until Hamlin was
sideways, and Mike Bliss got a flat tire in the process.

And remember buddy, Causeawreckski was the one who started this all. He
fired the first shot by picking up Denny's rear tires under caution at
Charlotte, and Denny responded by hitting the #88's fender. And then for
some reason, the three JR Motorsports crews of Causeawrecski, Dale Jr
and Johson all decided to scuffle with the #20 team, even though all
three cars finished in the top 10.


  37.   CFob posted:
  11.22.2009 - 4:23 pm
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"Big shit, so Carl loses his temper once in a while. No one is pefect,
hard as it may be for you to believe. A few "roid rage" incidents, as
some people put it doesn't take away from all the good things Carl has
done. Carl even visited the fans who were hurt by flying debris at
Talladega in April. Did Causeawreckski do any of that? No, because he
was too busy planning on what the next wreck he would cause would look
like."

He visited those people as he should have. He wrecked himself because
Brad was following NASCAR's rules. He wasn't going to ruin a good run by
becoming the next Reagan Smith. Brad wasn't at fault for the incident,
NASCAR was. And, because you used a "-ski" name, I am obligated to call
you an idiot now, idiot.

"Not exactly hard to come back and finish 12th when you drive for
Hendrick and almost everyone else is in cars from underfunded teams."

Good point. Well, actually not. In fact it's kind of a dumb point, and
wrong. Yeah, you're definitely wrong.

"Who said anything about being someone's bitch? You stupid idiot, you
act like people have been constantly bullying Causeawreckski all
throughtout his career and that he's no retaliating. What was
Causeawreckski's excuse for spinning out Hamlin last week? Sure, Hamlin
bumped him first, and Keselowski bumped him back. The contact should
have ended then and there. Instead Causeawrecksi pushed the issue
further until Hamlin was sideways, and Mike Bliss got a flat tire in the
process."

Well, people had been. The Truck race that MADE Brad's career, he was
flat taken out by Travis Kvapil when he had a good chance at winning.
Well, idiot, (by the way LOVE the redundancy of 'stupid idiot' for a
grammar Nazi, you sure failed up that one), he didn't bump Hamlin back
until the next turn when he sent Hamlin all the way around. So, it DID
end after the first return shot. If you saw another one, I think I'd
invest in a pair of glasses.

And Mike Bliss got a flat tire, but I cannot seem to remember Brad
reaching out the window and stabbing Bliss's tire... Maybe someone could
refresh my memory about Brad and his knife wielding ways, because I've
watched him race for YEARS, even before NASCAR, and I never once can
recall him stabbing someone's tire. Idiot (three idiots for each "-ski").

"And remember buddy, Causeawreckski was the one who started this all. He
fired the first shot by picking up Denny's rear tires under caution at
Charlotte, and Denny responded by hitting the #88's fender. And then for
some reason, the three JR Motorsports crews of Causeawrecski, Dale Jr
and Johson all decided to scuffle with the #20 team, even though all
three cars finished in the top 10. "

Well, idiot, he did it because of how Hamlin was racing him, so wouldn't
that be Denny starting it? And if some prima donna driver acts like the
world should be handed to him on a platter, as Hamlin did that night in
Charlotte, he deserves to have someone go down there and let him know
just how stupid he's being. Hell, if you were at Homestead yesterday,
I'm sure that very same JR Motorsports crew would have been more than
happy to inform you of your painful level of IQ-lowering, brain numbing,
eye bleedingly pathetic, carcinogenic, migraine inducing, heart aching
stupidity too.

However, idiot, I do seem to recall Denny Hamlin spinning Brad in front
of nearly the entire field and almost collecting quite a few cars, and
almost ruining the race for TWO teams still seeking sponsorship for 2010. A


  38.   Rusty posted:
  11.22.2009 - 5:25 pm
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Denny Hamlin is a dirtbag, did getting wrecked in a Nationwide race he
shouldn't be racing in really bother his wittle feelings that badly?

Grow up. I hope someone punts him on Sunday.


  39.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 5:31 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"The Truck race that MADE Brad's career, he was flat taken out by Travis
Kvapil when he had a good chance at winning"

What the hell is your point? So he got taken out - big whoop. Are you
trying to use the fact that he got taken out in a truck race two years
as an excuse for him running over everybody?

"So, it DID end after the first return shot. If you saw another one, I
think I'd invest in a pair of glasses."

You blind shit, look at the damn replay.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGWSgwtsnl8) At 0:44 he rams Denny's
rear bumper, waited for a few seconds, then drove deep into the corner
just to wreck him. So he took two shots, not one. Maybe it's time you
went back to the first grade and learned how to count?

"And Mike Bliss got a flat tire, but I cannot seem to remember Brad
reaching out the window and stabbing Bliss's tire... "

He didn't have to reach out the window, moron. By spinning out Hamlin,
he caused a stack up which resulted in Bliss getting a flat tire.

"Well, idiot, he did it because of how Hamlin was racing him, so
wouldn't that be Denny starting it?"

Did you just say that? So it's not ok for Denny to complain about how
Bulldozer Brad (like that nickname better?) races him, but its ok for
Bulldozer Brad to jack him up under caution because he didn't like the
way Denny raced him? What a joke.

"I'm sure that very same JR Motorsports crew would have been more than
happy to inform you of your painful level of IQ-lowering, brain numbing,
eye bleedingly pathetic, carcinogenic, migraine inducing, heart aching
stupidity too."

Wow, looks like someone's Mommy taught him some new words!


  40.   Dodge posted:
  11.22.2009 - 6:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Brad has barely any friends out there on the track."

Hey Wallacefan, I don't think Steve has any friends out there. I believe
Brad has a ton and Diva is lying throu his teeth.


  41.   CFob posted:
  11.22.2009 - 6:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"What the hell is your point? So he got taken out - big whoop. Are you
trying to use the fact that he got taken out in a truck race two years
as an excuse for him running over everybody?"

A) That was to prove that not only does Brad get taken out, he's pretty
much been dealing with it from the start. And he doesn't run over
everyone, your exaggerations are adorable though. That'd be like me
saying Denny Hamlin ALWAYS complains about his Crew. There are like
three races out of the season when he actually gives them credit, so it
wouldn't be true. However, unlike your exaggeration, the one I made,
more often than not, happens.

B) You give idiots everywhere a bad name.

"You blind shit, look at the damn replay.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGWSgwtsnl8) At 0:44 he rams Denny's
rear bumper, waited for a few seconds, then drove deep into the corner
just to wreck him. So he took two shots, not one. Maybe it's time you
went back to the first grade and learned how to count?"

Yeah, if you look closely, Denny checked up right in front of Brad, with
a car RIGHT beneath him, which gave him no room to do anything but touch
Denny's back bumper, THEN he spun Denny. So, if anyone is at fault Denny
would be for slowing up right in front of Brad. Maybe it's about time
you scrape your ass off the couch, go to a short track, watch some REAL
racing and educate yourself on how this sport works a little bit better.
If a car stops in front of you, you have one car beneath you, and a wall
to the outside, where can you go?

Your observational skills are lacking, as is your logic, seeing as you
provided the video to make yourself look foolish.

"He didn't have to reach out the window, moron. By spinning out Hamlin,
he caused a stack up which resulted in Bliss getting a flat tire."

That really sucks for Mike Bliss. However, that's just Bliss's luck in
2009, he was a victim of circumstance. It's racing, shit happens.

"Did you just say that? So it's not ok for Denny to complain about how
Bulldozer Brad (like that nickname better?) races him, but its ok for
Bulldozer Brad to jack him up under caution because he didn't like the
way Denny raced him? What a joke."

Brad gives him a tap to let Denny know he doesn't appreciate the way he
was raced. Denny went to the media and whined about Brad racing him at
all. Denny whined and moaned and whined and moaned to the media, because
he didn't think the Nationwide drivers, namely Brad, should race him for
position (what he said, not me making it up). He also threatened Brad in
the media multiple times throughout the last couple of seasons, while
Brad didn't. Brad gave Denny one tap in response, Denny went out and
ruined Brad's chance of winning (which was brilliant thing to do with
Brad's car owner right there also in the race) and kept crying about
being raced.

The only joke in that situation is Denny Hamlin. Also, just like a dog
having his face rubbed in its mess on the carpet, you learned to drop
the "-ski" nicknames. By God, you're finally growing up.

"Wow, looks like someone's Mommy taught him some new words!"

Funny, someone as clearly dimwitted and illogical as you would infer
that I am the stupid one. Kid, a one armed man should never get into a
knife fight, and you do NOT want to match wits when you're so clearly
under armed. No pun intended.

As for now, I doubt there is anything else you can say to make a point
worth responding to. You've proven your inadequacy in the realm of
debating auto racing, and I've learned mocking the mentally deficient is
a waste of time, it all goes over their heads.

Congratulations to 2009 Nationwide Series Champion Kyle Busch on a
dominate season, and 2009 Rookie of the Year Justin Allgaier on a great
follow up to his ARCA Championship season.


  42.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 7:26 pm
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"And he doesn't run over everyone, your exaggerations are adorable though."

Let's put a number to that, shall we? At Bristol he wrecked Allgaier. At
Memphis he wrecked Edwards, Ickler, Leicht, DiBenedetto. At Talladega he
got Kurt sideways, and Mark Martin, Martin Truex, Scott Slow, Robby
Gordon and several others got swept up in the wreck. And at Phoenix he
spun Hamlin. So that's at least 11 drivers who have suffered because of
his recklessness. 11 drivers wrecked in only a couple of months. I don't
know of any other driver in the sport that's done shit like that.

"Yeah, if you look closely, Denny checked up right in front of Brad,
with a car RIGHT beneath him, which gave him no room to do anything but
touch Denny's back bumper, THEN he spun Denny."

I guess you're stupid and blind then. It's like Kyle said,
Causeawreckski tried ramming Denny from behind and couldn't get it done,
so he took another shot to finish him off. But, if you are going to say
that Causeawreckski's first hit was unintentional because Denny checked
up, then I guess Denny wrecking him yesterday was also unintentional
because he had the sun in his eyes.

"Brad gives him a tap to let Denny know he doesn't appreciate the way he
was raced."

If Causeawreckski had a problem with Denny's way of racing him, he
should have waited until the race was over and confronted him after the
race, rather putting himself in a situation where his car ended up
getting a smashed up fender, or dispatching his pit crew to start a
brawl. Oh yeah, and the fender damage didn't do anything since
Causeawreckski didn't have a prayer of winning that race, not when you
have Kyle Busch restarting up front.

"The only joke in that situation is Denny Hamlin. Also, just like a dog
having his face rubbed in its mess on the carpet, you learned to drop
the "-ski" nicknames. By God, you're finally growing up."

Causeawreckski, Krashalotski, Wreckalotski. Looks like you spoke too soon.

"Kid, a one armed man should never get into a knife fight, and you do
NOT want to match wits when you're so clearly under armed. No pun intended."

What are you gonna, go cry to your Mommy and ask her to teach you some
new words? Go ahead, really, I'll be waiting.


  43.   Dodge posted:
  11.22.2009 - 8:28 pm
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Bronco, knock it off, please. Everyone has THEIR OWN OPINIONS. You may
not agree with them. I don't agree with your opinions but that don't
mean much because opinions aren't gonna change by arguing. If you don't
like Brad, fine. But its not worth arguing.


  44.   Anonymous posted:
  11.22.2009 - 8:38 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Let's put a number to that, shall we? At Bristol he wrecked Allgaier.
At Memphis he wrecked Edwards, Ickler, Leicht, DiBenedetto. At Talladega
he got Kurt sideways, and Mark Martin, Martin Truex, Scott Slow, Robby
Gordon and several others got swept up in the wreck. And at Phoenix he
spun Hamlin. So that's at least 11 drivers who have suffered because of
his recklessness. 11 drivers wrecked in only a couple of months. I don't
know of any other driver in the sport that's done shit like that."

Don't forget Lagasse at ORP. And he caused three wrecks at Memphis,
involving probably 15 cars total.


  45.   Cooper posted:
  11.22.2009 - 8:53 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Everyone has wrecked someone, that's racing, why does it matter who hit
who? These guys are racking in millions of dollars per year, JR hired
Brad to do one thing, race like a madman, to do the best he can. Denny
is a cup driver, who's invading a minor league series, why doesn't brad
have the right to bump him. When Brad was with Keith Coleman, he tried
110% to do his best, to get an opportunity, to one day race with
competitive equipment. He got it, and didn't waste it. If you have the
equipment, use it up.

Anyways I still don't know what Brad has done wrong to the point people
despise him? Can someone like Bronco, tell me whats the deal?


  46.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.22.2009 - 9:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"You think Tony is dumb for not hiring a driver you root for, which is
laughable."

No, I think he is dumb because he is turning down and hungry up and
comer who has already proven he can succeed on the Cup level so he can
court a washed up Kevin Harvick, or a destined to fail Danica Patrick.
Brad is one of those guys you just have to make room for and worry about
the details later. With Rick standing close by, I have a feeling
everything would work out just fine.

"A proven Sprint Cup winner? Are you shitting me? For God's sakes, he
has ONE win!! How does that make him a "proven" winner?"

Because he got that one win before he ever ran a full time Cup schedule.
Besides, he won this year. That is "proof" that he is a "winner". And he
didn't need fuel strategy or rain like Stale Bread, Reut, or Casey Mears.

"Hey genius, if Tony wants an extra set of notes, he has the 5, the 24
and 48 to look at it"

Those same notes that helped him so much during the first 26 races but
magically quit being as effective during the cha$e? Hmmm. Yes, I know he
won at Kansas, but there were quite a few races where they were really
far off setup wise. He needs additional notes from his own team.

"and hopefully the 88 when that team gets turned around."

That will be a few years from now when they get a new driver.

"Tony has more talent than Causeawreckski so whatever you think
Causeawreckski can do in a SHR car, Tony can do it better."

So by that logic, why hire anyone else? Why not just be a single car
team like Robby Gordon Motorsports? Hmmm, we have one guy who can do
really well, let's not persue another guy who can also do well because
we already have one. This isn't 1981.


  47.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.22.2009 - 9:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Anyways I still don't know what Brad has done wrong to the point people
despise him? Can someone like Bronco, tell me whats the deal?"

From what I can tell, only two people despise Brad: Denny and Bronco.
Denny is the one the fans have turned against. Even at Martinsville, in
his home state of Virginia, he was booed more than cheered at driver
intros. These are the same fans that root for all of their fellow
Commonwealth natives like Ward Burton, Jeff Burton, and even Elliott
"There Is A Car Stopped In Front Of Me On Pit Road, Should I Slow Down?
Nah" Sadler.


  48.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 9:51 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Brad is one of those guys you just have to make room for and worry
about the details later."

Well that right there shows how little you know about racing. Believe it
or not, you don't just create a new team from scratch and worry about
minor details like sponsorship, crew chief, crewmen later on. RCR
expanded to four cars this year when they weren't ready for it, and it
came back to haunt them. Notice how their performance has picked up
since they decided to drop the 07 car?

And like I said, was Bulldozer Brad bringing sponsorship with him? No,
so finding that sponsorship would have been a headache that Tony
understandably didn't want to deal with. And given that Newman's car
isn't fully sponsored, it makes more sense to find sponsorship for 10-12
races for the existing car than to find a sponsor for a new car.

"Because he got that one win before he ever ran a full time Cup
schedule. Besides, he won this year. That is "proof" that he is a "winner"."

A proven winner is someone who has won multiple times, not just once. I
guess Greg Sacks, Phil Start and Parksons, Jody Ridley, Ron Bouchard,
Dick Brooks, Bobby Hillin, Lake Speed and others are proven winners also?

"Anyways I still don't know what Brad has done wrong to the point people
despise him? Can someone like Bronco, tell me whats the deal?"

I don't despise him, I just don't like how careless he is when he races.
I'm not saying I expect him to roll over for Cup drivers or for anyone
else, but you cant just keep banging into people with the frequency with
which he does it. He may call it "racing hard" but you don't see Jimmie
Johnson racing like that.


  49.   CFob posted:
  11.22.2009 - 10:53 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Wow, check it out, you were dumb enough to draw me back. Guess I just
have to keep rubbing your nose in it. Bad dog!

"Let's put a number to that, shall we? At Bristol he wrecked Allgaier.
At Memphis he wrecked Edwards, Ickler, Leicht, DiBenedetto. At Talladega
he got Kurt sideways, and Mark Martin, Martin Truex, Scott Slow, Robby
Gordon and several others got swept up in the wreck. And at Phoenix he
spun Hamlin. So that's at least 11 drivers who have suffered because of
his recklessness. 11 drivers wrecked in only a couple of months. I don't
know of any other driver in the sport that's done shit like that."

Allgaier was a racing incident, Memphis was like that pretty much the
entire race for EVERYONE, Talladega was Brian Vickers shoving him into
Kurt, Phoenix was in retaliation for Hamlin getting into him first. Like
I said, one armed men, shouldn't get into knife fights.

"I guess you're stupid and blind then. It's like Kyle said,
Causeawreckski tried ramming Denny from behind and couldn't get it done,
so he took another shot to finish him off. But, if you are going to say
that Causeawreckski's first hit was unintentional because Denny checked
up, then I guess Denny wrecking him yesterday was also unintentional
because he had the sun in his eyes."

Looks like you just shit on the rug again. I don't know HOW you could
see anything different. Brad had literally NOWHERE to go except into
Hamlin's back bumper, and THEN he flat wrecked Hamlin. I'm not saying
the spin wasn't intentional, the first hit was a racing incident. I
mean, if you think it makes more sense for him to take a piece of the
wall, then you're just the idiot I always pegged you for.

"If Causeawreckski had a problem with Denny's way of racing him, he
should have waited until the race was over and confronted him after the
race, rather putting himself in a situation where his car ended up
getting a smashed up fender, or dispatching his pit crew to start a
brawl. Oh yeah, and the fender damage didn't do anything since
Causeawreckski didn't have a prayer of winning that race, not when you
have Kyle Busch restarting up front."

We'll never know. The aerodynamic disadvantage kinda made sure we never
got to see in Brad had a chance.

"Causeawreckski, Krashalotski, Wreckalotski. Looks like you spoke too soon."

You truly are just a bad dog, I threaten to ignore you, and you act out
JUST to get my attention. Your behavior is actually getting borderline
obsessive. It's kinda creepy.

"What are you gonna, go cry to your Mommy and ask her to teach you some
new words? Go ahead, really, I'll be waiting."

Bad dog. Don't make me grab the rolled up newspaper. But thank you for
proving my point. This argument is unfair, I'm actually feeling a little
guilty for having to mock you so badly, but if I don't do it, you'll
never learn.

"I don't despise him, I just don't like how careless he is when he
races. I'm not saying I expect him to roll over for Cup drivers or for
anyone else, but you cant just keep banging into people with the
frequency with which he does it. He may call it "racing hard" but you
don't see Jimmie Johnson racing like that."

Wow. The middle portion of the fall Talladega race must've been just
your thing. Nobody passing anyone, all the drivers giving each other a
respectful amount of space. This actually explains a lot...

Now, quit using the carpet as your bathroom, my arms actually getting
tired from rubbing your nose in your mess.


  50.   Bronco posted:
  11.22.2009 - 11:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Allgaier was a racing incident, Memphis was like that pretty much the
entire race for EVERYONE, Talladega was Brian Vickers shoving him into
Kurt, Phoenix was in retaliation for Hamlin getting into him first. Like
I said, one armed men, shouldn't get into knife fights."

Yeah ok buddy, keep smoking whatever it is that makes you sound like a
complete moron. Bulldozer Brad never wrecks someone. It's just that
whenever someone does get wrecked, he's not too far behind. Right?

"You truly are just a bad dog, I threaten to ignore you, and you act out
JUST to get my attention. Your behavior is actually getting borderline
obsessive. It's kinda creepy."

Looks like I got your attention then, fool.

"Wow. The middle portion of the fall Talladega race must've been just
your thing. Nobody passing anyone, all the drivers giving each other a
respectful amount of space. This actually explains a lot..."

You dumbshit, your head is probably too far up your own ass to
understand this, but I'm gonna give it a shot anyways. There is a
difference between racing hard (what Jimmie Johnson does week in and
week out) and bulldozing your way through the field (what Bulldozer Brad
does). I'm sorry if you're too stupid to tell the difference, but it is
possible to win races and finish in the top 10 without running over
everyone in your way. If you like Causeawrecksi's driving style then go
watch a demolition derby or something.

"Now, quit using the carpet as your bathroom, my arms actually getting
tired from rubbing your nose in your mess."

CFob, it's hilarious how you continue to mock me and my opinions, yet
for some reason you can't stop responding to my posts. Guess whatever
"bad dog" tricks I'm doing are just grabbing your attention then.
Anyway, hopefully your arms don't get too tired, because we got a long
off season ahead.


  51.   CFob posted:
  11.22.2009 - 11:33 pm
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"Yeah ok buddy, keep smoking whatever it is that makes you sound like a
complete moron. Bulldozer Brad never wrecks someone. It's just that
whenever someone does get wrecked, he's not too far behind. Right?"

Read closely, Pup. I said Brad wrecked Denny. So, that makes everything
you wrote above wrong.

"Looks like I got your attention then, fool."

Yes, because you're practically begging for it. Like I said, it's pretty
creepy.

"You dumbshit, your head is probably too far up your own ass to
understand this, but I'm gonna give it a shot anyways. There is a
difference between racing hard (what Jimmie Johnson does week in and
week out) and bulldozing your way through the field (what Bulldozer Brad
does). I'm sorry if you're too stupid to tell the difference, but it is
possible to win races and finish in the top 10 without running over
everyone in your way. If you like Causeawrecksi's driving style then go
watch a demolition derby or something."

Okay Asshat, look here, you're viewpoints on Brad's driving style are so
highly exaggerated it's almost churns my stomach. It is not your opinion
that bothers me, it's the fact that you exaggerate to the point that you
make it out to be that Brad is pounding everyone out of his way, which
is a blatant lie. Brad races aggressively when he is raced aggressively.
He doesn't go out there and ride around, he is out there to win, every
lap of the race.

Brad has been beaten on since he got into decent equipment, but the fact
remains is that he started this season standing up for himself and not
letting other drivers bounce him around like they had been. The
Nationwide Series is full of drivers trying to prove themselves to get a
shot at better equipment and move up to the Cup Series, so you see a lot
more aggressive driving in general, however, Brad is out there trying to
overcome the Gibbs cars and their advantage, and the Roush cars that
seem to be just one step below the Gibbs cars, and four times this
season and two the year before he overcame those superior rides with his
inferior equipment and won.

I'm sorry you fail to appreciate a driver who is out there to win, in
lieu of a driver like Denny Hamlin who tosses his team under the bus,
acts like he is the next Richard Petty and thinks he is some sort of
on-track Sheriff, when his own hometown crowd can't even stand him. And
despite the fact he has enough talent that if I had half of it, you'd be
typing ABOUT me in this race instead of futilely arguing (or trying to,
at least) with me.

Denny Hamlin could EASILY be THE man in the Cup Series right now, but he
is diverting his focus on petty things like his anger at Brad because
Denny acted like a douche and Brad egged him on by responding.

"CFob, it's hilarious how you continue to mock me and my opinions, yet
for some reason you can't stop responding to my posts. Guess whatever
"bad dog" tricks I'm doing are just grabbing your attention then.
Anyway, hopefully your arms don't get too tired, because we got a long
off season ahead."

I'm not mocking your opinions, I'm just mocking you and the
exaggerations involved in your opinions and refuting them with my
opinions and viewpoints. Yes, you attention-whoring it up to draw me in
has worked, congratulations, even if it is creepy as hell.


  52.   Bronco posted:
  11.23.2009 - 12:01 am
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It is not your opinion that bothers me, it's the fact that you
exaggerate to the point that you make it out to be that Brad is pounding
everyone out of his way, which is a blatant lie."

Look, he isn't pounding EVERYONE, I'm just saying he's doing it a lot
more than is needed. For example Brian Ickler today is what Brad was a
few years ago, a driver looking to turn some heads with a good run in a
rare Nationwide appearance. Instead of finishing in the top 10 or 15, he
gets a torn up race car all because Bulldozer Brad decided to spin Carl
Edwards down the backstretch at Memphis. I just think it wouldn't hurt
for Brad to show his competitors some respect and to not forget where he
came from.

"four times this season and two the year before he overcame those
superior rides with his inferior equipment and won."

Give me a break, since when was driving for Hendrick considered to be
inferior equipment? Inferior equipment is like driving for teams like
CJM, Phoenix, Germain, Braun etc.

"Denny Hamlin could EASILY be THE man in the Cup Series right now, but
he is diverting his focus on petty things like his anger at Brad because
Denny acted like a douche and Brad egged him on by responding."

Now how is going after Brad is Denny's diverting focus? In case you
didn't notice, Denny won today's race, so clearly his focus still lies
with making the #11 team the best that it can be. I'm sure you and many
others expected Denny to find Brad in the Cup and actually wreck him
this time, but thankfully both drivers were smart enough to drive their
own races.


  53.   CFob posted:
  11.23.2009 - 3:27 am
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"Look, he isn't pounding EVERYONE, I'm just saying he's doing it a lot
more than is needed. For example Brian Ickler today is what Brad was a
few years ago, a driver looking to turn some heads with a good run in a
rare Nationwide appearance. Instead of finishing in the top 10 or 15, he
gets a torn up race car all because Bulldozer Brad decided to spin Carl
Edwards down the backstretch at Memphis. I just think it wouldn't hurt
for Brad to show his competitors some respect and to not forget where he
came from."

Brian Ickler is a developmental driver with Kyle Busch, and he races
Kyle's Nos Energy Late Model all over the place. He's associated already
with a major driver, his break is just waiting for Kyle Busch to get his
Truck team together and/or talk Billy Ballew into giving Ickler a ride.

"Give me a break, since when was driving for Hendrick considered to be
inferior equipment? Inferior equipment is like driving for teams like
CJM, Phoenix, Germain, Braun etc."

Hendrick supported. Probably more so than you've seen in the past with
the old Haas Team pre-Tony or the Furniture Row team, but it is still a
Hendrick supported team. And when it comes to the Nationwide Series,
pretty much anyone who isn't Gibbs or Roush is in inferior equipment.

"Now how is going after Brad is Denny's diverting focus? In case you
didn't notice, Denny won today's race, so clearly his focus still lies
with making the #11 team the best that it can be. I'm sure you and many
others expected Denny to find Brad in the Cup and actually wreck him
this time, but thankfully both drivers were smart enough to drive their
own races."

Yeah, Denny won today's race, and he did a great job. But this could
have been a Championship season for Denny had he paid a little bit
closer focus on what his job is, and a little less on the gophers
bothering his "golf game" on Saturdays.

And no, I didn't expect Denny to wreck Brad in the Cup race. I actually
hoped Denny was smart enough to know it'd hurt him MUCH more than it'd
hurt Brad if he took Brad out. Thankfully, Denny, as demented as he has
apparently become, held enough of his mental faculties together to know
better.

And good luck to him as he undergoes knee surgery coming up pretty soon.


  54.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.23.2009 - 3:13 pm
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"Well that right there shows how little you know about racing. Believe
it or not, you don't just create a new team from scratch and worry about
minor details like sponsorship, crew chief, crewmen later on. RCR
expanded to four cars this year when they weren't ready for it, and it
came back to haunt them. Notice how their performance has picked up
since they decided to drop the 07 car?"

Uh, I hate to break it to you, but the #07 car has been in all the races
this year. Granted they don't get much TV with Casey "My Last Name Is
Mears" Mears, so that is an easy mistake to make, but the rewards for
dropping that team wouldn't show up until next year. they have still had
to field four cars and crews with full equipment even during RCR's
upswing, which has seen all 4 cars do much better, even Casey "My Last
Name Is Mears" Mears.

The real problem with RCR has been building for a while, and that is the
fact that they haven't been very fast. In 2007 and 2008 they did a good
job of hanging around and taking advantage of attrition after running
15th all day, having no DNFs, and doing well in the points, but they had
very few wins, Top 5s, or laps led. This year they changed their cars
around to try to be faster, and it had the opposite effect. Instead of
running 15th, they were running 25th, where all the shit happens. DNFs
began piling up and they couldn't take advantage of bad pit calls by
lead alp cars cause they were trapped a lap down.

They have recently started bringing all new cars to the track and ALL
FOUR cars have run better. And in case you didn't notice, the new team
started from scratch (the #33 with Clint Bowyer) was their best car from
start to finish. If they had the cars they have now that they had at the
beginning of the season, 3 of them would have made the cha$e.

Which brings me back to my point about Brad: With the resources HMS has
they could have started a third team over there. If Richard Childress
would have let him out of his contract, he was gonna start a third team
with Harvick. So he could have done it.

And Rick would have got sponsorship for them. And if he couldn't, then
send Ryan Newman back to the morgue and put Brad in that car. I hear
cars run faster when being driven by people who aren't propped up
corpses slowly decomposing.

Huh, guess I know more about racing than you thought.


  55.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.23.2009 - 3:15 pm
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"LOL at the fact that you had to look up a comment I made months ago"

Sorry for bringing up an actual quote to prove your hypocrisy instead of
nitpicking spelling and grammar.


  56.   The Zeusian posted:
  11.23.2009 - 4:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

MSRP Motorsports brought in Duke's Sweet Tea Vodka as a sponsor for the
91 & they parked the race. Could it get any worse for Terry Cook. Also,
Duke's brought an hot supermodel to the race, too.


  57.   Bronco posted:
  11.23.2009 - 5:39 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Uh, I hate to break it to you, but the #07 car has been in all the
races this year."

It has been in all 36 races this year, but I would imagine that with the
announcement that their primary sponsor for the 07 is leaving with no
replacement in sight, it would give them the freedom to shuffle
personnel and resources around to focus on the other 3 cars.

"If Richard Childress would have let him out of his contract, he was
gonna start a third team with Harvick. So he could have done it."

That's nothing more than a rumor at this point. And even if it were
true, it would be because Kevin would either be bringing over his
Shell/Pennzoil sponsorship, or convincing his Nationwide/Truck sponsors
to extend their relationship with him by sponsoring him in Cup. But even
if Tony were to bring Kevin over for the sake of friendship, what's
wrong with that? Is it a crime to surround yourself with your friends?

If Kevin does leave after next year, I wouldn't be totally surprised to
see John Wrecks Weekly strap into the #29 Zaxby's Chevrolet for 2011.
That should be fun to watch.

I personally hope that none of the RCR cars make the cha$e next year.
All they do is like you said, ride around and pick up top 10 or top 15
finishes without hardly winning, or leading laps. I would rather see a
cha$e spot go to someone like JPM, who is in it to actually race
insteading of just making laps. He led more laps this year than each rcr
car did in 2008 and has had the same number of poles this season as they
have in 3 years.

"And if he couldn't, then send Ryan Newman back to the morgue and put
Brad in that car. I hear cars run faster when being driven by people who
aren't propped up corpses slowly decomposing."

Okay then...talk about a completely random and meaningless comment.


  58.   Talon64 posted:
  11.23.2009 - 6:23 pm
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Kyle's 30th career NNS win makes it the 2nd straight year that he's won
at least 20 times among NASCAR's top 3 divisions. He set single season
records in laps led, points scored and runner-up finishes. Between
Nationwide and Trucks he had 31 top 2 finishes in 50 starts.

Carl Edwards had career highs in top fives, top tens, poles, laps led
and average finish this year, but still finished over 200 points behind
Kyle in the standings.

This was Jeff Burton's 90th career top five finish in NNS.

Logano made his 41st career NNS start at Homestead, made up of two
partial NNS seasons. In those he has 6 wins, 18 top fives, 30 top tens,
7 poles, 732 laps led, an average start of 8.7 and an average finish of
8.4.

Denny Hamlin got his first top ten in 7 NNS starts this year.

Newman scored the 33 KHI team's 25th top ten of the year; they finished
4th in the owners standings, a new high for the team. Plus they beat the
29 RCR team who finished 5th!

Steven Wallace scored back-to-back top tens for the third time in his
career. 7th in the standings and a 16.5 average finish are both new
career highs.

Scott Speed gets his 8th top ten in 13 starts in the MWR 99 NNS car,
with a best finish of 7th at the first Dover race.

Allgaier's 20th place finish was enough for him to beat Brendan Gaughan
in the 2009 ROTY standings by 18 points. He led all rookies with 12 top
tens and tied Gaughan for most top fives with 3.


  59.   Dodge posted:
  11.24.2009 - 12:03 pm
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Since nobody mentioned it yet but last night during the Nationwide/Truck
Award Ceremony, Brad Keselowski WON THE MOST POPULAR DRIVER AWARD.


  60.   CFob posted:
  11.24.2009 - 4:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Since nobody mentioned it yet but last night during the
Nationwide/Truck Award Ceremony, Brad Keselowski WON THE MOST POPULAR
DRIVER AWARD. "

Wow, that must've been hard, seeing as no one likes Brad anymore. Now
excuse me while I go roll my eyes.

Congratulations Brad!


  61.   Talon64 posted:
  11.24.2009 - 5:36 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Mike Bliss won the Featherlite Award for the driver who improves the
most places each race (from starting spot), and the WIX lap leader award
for most laps led by an NNS series-only regular.

Carl Edwards won the season-long pole award for his 7 poles, 3rd time in
his career.

Justin Allgaier won ROTY.


  62.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.25.2009 - 11:54 am
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"It has been in all 36 races this year, but I would imagine that with
the announcement that their primary sponsor for the 07 is leaving with
no replacement in sight, it would give them the freedom to shuffle
personnel and resources around to focus on the other 3 cars."

Which explains why all 4 cars have been running really well lately,
especially at Homestead. Oh wait, it doesn't.

"But even if Tony were to bring Kevin over for the sake of friendship,
what's wrong with that? Is it a crime to surround yourself with your
friends?"

I don't know if it's a crime (you're the lawyer) but it is not a smart
move if those friends (Newman and Harvick) are routinely being
outperfomed by their teammates in the years before he signed them,
showing little sings of fire (or a pulse in Newman's case), and have
shown the ability to affect team morale in a bad way. Like I said on the
Ford 400 page, I just have a bad feeling about SHR in the future, even
with Hendrick supplying everything. Is Tony really a guy with the
emotional stability to make crucial decisions on a Sprint Cup organization?

"Okay then...talk about a completely random and meaningless comment."

It's a running joke that Ryan Newman actually died a few years ago
(sometime after 2005) and they've just been propping his corpse up
Weekend At Bernie's style since.


  63.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.25.2009 - 12:02 pm
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"Brad Keselowski WON THE MOST POPULAR DRIVER AWARD."

But that can't be true! When Denny spun Brad everyone stood up and
cheered. Remember? It's what Denny said. It had nothing to with the fact
that a) everyone at every race stands up and makes a loud noise anytime
anyone spins out or b) Brad SAVED IT and made Denny look like a horse's
ass (JPM showed him how to do it one night later).

Seriously Denny, wake up. YOU are the one people are turning against,
Mr. I'm Doing My Part Since The Economy Is Crumbling, I'm Gonna Start
Actually Pumping My Own Gas, Aren't I Great?. They aren't even cheering
for you in The Commonwealth (Virginia) anymore. We mostly see you as the
poster child of spoiled ego maniacs that let success go to your head and
turn you into a DIVA (except for a certain Canadian Lawyer).


  64.   Bronco posted:
  11.26.2009 - 12:26 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Wow, that must've been hard, seeing as no one likes Brad anymore. Now
excuse me while I go roll my eyes."

Not exactly to win the MPD driver when you drive for a guy who is by far
the MPD in Cup. Martin Truex won the award in 2004 and 2005 when drove
in the Busch series, so it's not surprising to see Bulldozer Brad. And
since he won't be back with the #88 team next year, we can pencil in
Kelly Bires for that award.

"Is Tony really a guy with the emotional stability to make crucial
decisions on a Sprint Cup organization?"

Haha, this what you wrote about Tony some time ago (see, I can pull up
some of your older posts too). This is what you wrote on Tony's driver
page before the season started - comment #37.

"One thing I will say: I expect Tony and Ryan to be competitive on the
plate tracks. But the other 32 races, I don't see much. "

Needless to say, that prediction didn't turn out so well. Tony was
actually having the best season of his career until after Watkins Glen
when the numbers dipped. Newman had a solid season as well after being
uncompetitive in the #12. And on the plate tracks, Tony was good at
Daytona but bad at Talladega, while Newman sucked at Daytona, launched
Carl at Talladega and finished 3rd, and then they both crashed out of
the fall race in the same incident. So your latest prediction, about
your "bad feeling" isn't worth a damn.

And as for those "crucial" decisions, that's why he has competition
directors and engineers at his disposal - so that they can make those
hard decisions for him while Tony focuses on racing on Sundays.

"We mostly see you as the poster child of spoiled ego maniacs that let
success go to your head and turn you into a DIVA (except for a certain
Canadian Lawyer)."

Say whatever you want about Denny (or me for that matter) but the fact
is that Denny wins races and has proven to be a top notch driver and has
a bright future in the sport. As for me, please don't throw a hissy fit
and call me a lawyer just because I called you out on a simple
grammatical error.

And for all the people who think Denny should have been suspended from
the Cup race for what he did, consider the fact that even a mild
mannered guy like Jeff Burton said that Denny did nothing wrong by
making good on his promise. Maybe that should say something about all
the people Krashalotski has pissed off.


  65.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.27.2009 - 10:57 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Needless to say, that prediction didn't turn out so well."

That was before I realized that Hendrick basically took over the
competition side of that organization. I thought they would just be
getting chassis and motors, not the entire HMS notebook too. Hell, JJ
even openly refers to Tony and Ryan as his teammates. Had I known that,
and known Roush and RCR would be totally out to lunch this year I would
have predicted differently.


  66.   Dodge posted:
  11.27.2009 - 1:31 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Not exactly to win the MPD driver when you drive for a guy who is by
far the MPD in Cup. Martin Truex won the award in 2004 and 2005 when
drove in the Busch series, so it's not surprising to see Bulldozer Brad.
And since he won't be back with the #88 team next year, we can pencil in
Kelly Bires for that award."

I don't think Kelly Bires has a chance to win the Most Popular Driver
Award. I look for that team to struggle. I have never liked Bires
because of what he did to Ted Musgrave in 2007 or so in the trucks.
Plus, look at what he did in the 47 Nationwide Series car. Was never
competitive.


  67.   Talon64 posted:
  11.27.2009 - 5:02 pm
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"Plus, look at what he did in the 47 Nationwide Series car. Was never
competitive."

But then he gets a couple top fives with KHI and Braun this past season.
He's got potential but he's unproven, so next year will go a long way to
see how good he is. But KHI wanted to keep him so people that matter
think highly of him.

Oh and there's a chance we can add former F1 driver, and most recently a
ALMS GT driver and champion, Mika Salo to the list of rookies next year;
he's working on a full time Nationwide deal or at least half a season.
Who knows how this'll turn out for him, he wasn't great in F1 and while
he's been great lately in sports cars he'd be a 42 year old stock car
rookie. He better find a deal with a team that's in the top 35 to start
the year.


  68.   Dodge posted:
  11.27.2009 - 6:46 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Wasn't the race for Braun and KHI stand alone races? As a result, Bires'
runs have to be looked at differently. Plus, I was only stating MY OPINION.

Also, about all the foriegner getting rides..........There are people
who are busting their butts to prove they deserve a chance at a higher
level and yet you get these clowns that lost the rides in the series
that they wanted to race in so they then choose to come to NASCAR and
eliminate the chances that the people that DESERVE the opportunity.


  69.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.27.2009 - 8:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"I have never liked Bires because of what he did to Ted Musgrave in 2007
or so in the trucks."

Ironically that led the way for the huge break for none other than Brad
Keselowski, who drove Ted's truck when he got suspended for what he did
to Kelly. And for the record Brad won the pole dominated that race
before being flat spun out by Travis Kvapil at the end. Did Brad whine
and bitch about it the way all the Cup guys are about brad? Nope. He
called it what it was: a racing incident.


  70.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  11.27.2009 - 8:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I wouldn't say Bires was un-competitive in the 47. This year, when the
team didn't start-and-park he got a top-5 at Iowa. I actually think he
has potential, but we will just have to see how well he does in the 88
next season. This will be his opportunity for sure.


  71.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  11.27.2009 - 8:36 pm
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My mistake... Kelly drove for Braun at Iowa, but still.


  72.   CFob posted:
  11.27.2009 - 8:56 pm
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"Say whatever you want about Denny (or me for that matter) but the fact
is that Denny wins races and has proven to be a top notch driver and has
a bright future in the sport. As for me, please don't throw a hissy fit
and call me a lawyer just because I called you out on a simple
grammatical error.

And for all the people who think Denny should have been suspended from
the Cup race for what he did, consider the fact that even a mild
mannered guy like Jeff Burton said that Denny did nothing wrong by
making good on his promise. Maybe that should say something about all
the people Krashalotski has pissed off. "

Denny is an insanely talented driver. His ego just outgrew his
accomplishments, and he began to think he deserved special treatment
from other drivers.

What Jeff Burton had to say holds no relevance here. NASCAR violated
their previous precedents by allowing Denny to race on Sunday. When Jeff
Burton becomes race director for the Nationwide or Cup Series, it will
matter. However he isn't, so his opinion is meaningless in the argument.

"Not exactly to win the MPD driver when you drive for a guy who is by
far the MPD in Cup. Martin Truex won the award in 2004 and 2005 when
drove in the Busch series, so it's not surprising to see Bulldozer Brad.
And since he won't be back with the #88 team next year, we can pencil in
Kelly Bires for that award."

Still, you and Diva both have been saying how NO ONE likes Brad, how
crowds cheered for him spinning Brad, etc., etc., etc., and yet Brad was
the most popular driver. Seems to counteract your point.

Also, how did Martin Truex win the award in 2004 and 2005 when he ran
his last Nationwide (then Busch) Series race in 1998? I think you may
have meant to refer to his son, Martin Truex, Jr.

And Kelly Bires is much more talented than he has been allowed to show.
I got to see him race in a few ASA Late Model Series races back in the
day, and the guy has more talent than has been shown. I'm excited to see
what he can do in the 88 car next year.

Now hopefully Stephen Leicht can get himself a full-time ride, instead
of being the fill-in for the 29 car. That is a driver who could be a Cup
Series star if someone gave him a real shot.


  73.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.28.2009 - 9:42 am
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Wow. The spoiled pampered millionaire assholes are really hating Brad.
Just one more reason to like him. Check out these following quotes.
Starting with Denny "I'm The New Garage Spokesman Even Though My
Teammate Won More Races Last Year In The same Equipment As Me As I Have
My Entire Career" Hamlin"

"I've gotten the short end of the deal every single time, and it's not
just me. He's wrecked our cars. He's put our fabricators through hell.
And it's not just us. [There are] four guys at Memphis that he wrecked.
There are just a lot of guys, and that's the part he's going to have to
work on. He's got the speed and everything. It's just he thinks that the
way he does things is the right way, and truthfully it's not. Anybody
inside this garage that knows anything about the sport will tell you
that it's not."

So what about the fabricators at MWR after Pocono? Or how about your own
fabricators after you spectacularly choked at Fontana? Or Kyle Petty's
fabricators (as well your own again) when you wrecked him cause you were
a cha$e guy and he wasn't? Since Brad is a full time Nationwide
competitor and denny isn't, shouldn't that give him the right to wreck
Denny using The Diva's own logic? Seriously, who does this asshole think
he is? I'm telling ya: NASCAR has become an elitist country club. We
need people like Brad to reclaim our sport.

And now a word from NASCAR's resident angel himself. That's right, Kyle
Busch, the magnificent himself.

"and series champion Kyle Busch defended his teammate by proposing that
five drivers team up and wreck Keselowski in each of the first five
races of the 2010 season so he has to qualify on time in the sixth. "I'm
going to be the leader," Busch said. "I'm going to ante up everybody
else. Maybe you shouldn't have let the cat out of the bag."

Wow. Just wow. Kryle Busch, the guy who has never caused an accident in
his life proposing 5 people wreck Brad out of the first 5 races (which
given the amount of non start and park cars in cup next year, he'll
probably still be in the Top 35 after 5 weeks even if he is wrecked).
How about all the people he has wrecked? If they do that to Brad (and
they won't cause none of them have the balls, even Denny couldn't get
the job done, the conquering hero who really paid Brad back big time
even though Brad never hit anything and was laughing it off even as it
happened) then Kyle should get wrecked out of the first 15 races.

What a joke. And they wonder why fans are leaving NASCAR in droves. Yes,
the racing sucks due to the Car of Sorrow, yes the cha$e is a farce, and
yes TV coverage is the absolute pits, but these are the top drivers of
this sport. Who wants to sit and watch them?

And as far as Jeff Burton, what else do you expect from a Duke fan? Of
course somebody who pulls for a school for spoiled, elitist, holier than
thou students would back up spoiled, elitist, holier than thou drivers.


  74.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  11.28.2009 - 4:10 pm
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Wow, Crybaby Kyle is such a hypocrite. What about all the people he has
wrecked on PURPOSE? Ron Hornaday, Johnny Benson and Colin Braun in
Trucks, and slamming into Carl Edwards' car after the 2008 Bristol race.
I won't be so fast to say the Dale Jr wreck at Richmond was intentional,
but that's still a wrecked car that the 88 crew had to repair. If he's
going to get all over Brad for his driving, perhaps he should remember
all the cars he's torn up by racing hard as well.


  75.   Smokefan05 posted:
  11.28.2009 - 4:55 pm
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pot calling kettle black Kyle.

So baby Busch will led a team of drivers too wreck Brad? Oh ok i see how
things work in NASCAR now, what Baby Busch says goes.

"And as far as Jeff Burton, what else do you expect from a Duke fan?"

There is a reason why they call him the "mayor."

"I won't be so fast to say the Dale Jr wreck at Richmond was
intentional, but that's still a wrecked car that the 88 crew had to repair."

While Jr didn't cut him any slack, Baby Busch had about another 2-3 feet
below him. It could have been avioded. But it's history.


  76.   Dodge posted:
  11.28.2009 - 5:49 pm
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"I won't be so fast to say the Dale Jr wreck at Richmond was
intentional, but that's still a wrecked car that the 88 crew had to repair."

"While Jr didn't cut him any slack, Baby Busch had about another 2-3
feet below him. It could have been avioded. But it's history."

But Jr. started the episode in 2007 at Kansas. He flat out took Busch
out when Busch was in the Chase and Dale wasn't. Why should Kyle give
Jr. room when Jr took him out once and just said Oops.
However, I have lost some respect for Kyle though because of his Brad
comments.


  77.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.28.2009 - 6:23 pm
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You guys are right. The fact is everyone has caused wrecks, and honestly
Brad hasn't caused an inordinate amount. It's just the people he tangles
with happen to be the biggest whiners out there. And, as you guys
pointed out, raging hypocrites. They get to run over all the people they
want, but when somebody does it to them they scream bloody murder. They
have their own little country club thing going where they think they are
so much better than everyone else (what the hell Denny has done to be in
that club I haven't figured out yet). Brad is pissing in their
punchbowl. I love it.


  78.   New 14&88 Fan posted:
  11.28.2009 - 6:32 pm
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The more I think about it,the more Cryle Busch and Diva Hamlin are
acting just like their former teammate aka Rick Hendrick's
Puppet.Remember when Tony said after the 06 Bud Shootout that some one
would be killed because of the bump drafting,than nearly KILLED Matt
Kenseth by running him into the grass because Kenseth dared to 'race'
him(Matt never touched him),I can just see Cryle crashing some one after
going on one of his Anti-Keselowski tirades making himself look like a
even bigger fool than ever.


  79.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.29.2009 - 11:05 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"The more I think about it,the more Cryle Busch and Diva Hamlin are
acting just like their former teammate aka Rick Hendrick's Puppet."

Exactly. Tony is really poisoning the well in NASCAR. More and more
drivers are following his hypocritical diva behavior. That is you run
over everyone, then when somebody does that to you (or doesn't roll over
for you) you hit them then claim they deserved it because they don't
know "the code". What a crock of shit. Damn, I wish Hendrick would have
fired Dale Jr and put Brad K in that car. Then, in elite equipment that
is equal to JGR's Cup cars (unlike his Nationwide cars which vastly
inferior to JGR) he could blow them off the track and force them to eat
their words.

Or better yet, he should have forced his puppet (Tony) to hire Brad. I
would call him up and tell him to hire Brad. If his puppet said "No" I'd
say "OK. The next two races, RHP and Ryan Newman's corpse would recieve
the worst motors ever produced by HMS. After those two races, I'd call
my puppet up and say "So, have you changed your mind about Brad?" Then,
in 2010, Brad could drive the #25 for "Stewart-Haas Racing" and make the
cha$e.


  80.   Anonymous posted:
  11.29.2009 - 4:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DaleSrFanForever,

Why would Stewart want to hire Brad, when Kasey Khane is looking at
Stewart Haas racing for 2011 and major sponsors will not be leaving
their current teams until the end of the 2010 season?


Hendrick motorsports doesn't have a spot open for 2011 at this time for
Kasey. Rick Hendrick already said Jeff Gordon will be racing through
2013 or 2014. Martin's contract ends after 2011. JR. is too popular to
be let go from a sponsorship stand point. Jimmie's contract is through
2015. Kasey isn't happy are Richard Petty Motorsports.

Shell and Bass Pro Shops contracts are up after 2010 and Stewart is
after those two sponsors. Getting sponsors into Nascar right now are
hard to do despite Brad having a plate win in cup.


  81.   Anonymous posted:
  11.29.2009 - 4:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I know Kevin Harvick will be going to Stewart Haas racing but, the talk
that Stewart wants a 4 car team and that is where Khane comes in.
Sponsors aren't exactly coming into Nascar due to the economy right now.
The only way to get sponsors is by taking them away from current race
organizations.


  82.   Kit posted:
  11.29.2009 - 6:16 pm
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"what the hell Denny has done to be in that club I haven't figured out yet"

His family can now afford two pink flamingos in front of their trailer
house instead of just one. That makes him a badass compared to the
neighbors in his park.


  83.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.30.2009 - 1:34 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I guarantee you Rick could find sponsorship for Brad at SHR.

"His family can now afford two pink flamingos in front of their trailer
house instead of just one."

HA!


  84.   Bronco posted:
  11.30.2009 - 6:30 pm
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"Or better yet, he should have forced his puppet (Tony) to hire Brad. I
would call him up and tell him to hire Brad. If his puppet said "No" I'd
say "OK. The next two races, RHP and Ryan Newman's corpse would recieve
the worst motors ever produced by HMS."

Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard you say, but not
entirely surprising given your Krashalotski obsession. Rick can't FORCE
anyone to do anything. SHR is a seperate entity that happens to have a
strong business relationship with HMS. Why the hell would he want to
sabotage that relationship with giving them the "worst motors" ever
produced?

Besides, the worst motors that HMS produces already go to the #88 team.

"I guarantee you Rick could find sponsorship for Brad at SHR."

Of course, because in today's economy sponsors are just growing on trees
right?

Kodak, Jack Daniels, Jim Beam, Texaco-Havoline, Allstate, Dewalt. What
do they all have in common? They have all pulled out of the sport
entirely over the past two seasons. And there's others such as Bass Pro,
AAA and Kelloggs that have drastically cut back on their sponsorship. So
please, get your head out of your butt and realize that sponsorship is
hard for everyone to find, regardless of whether you're a start up team
or an established one.


  85.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  11.30.2009 - 7:37 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Exactly. Tony is really poisoning the well in NASCAR. More and more
drivers are following his hypocritical diva behavior. That is you run
over everyone, then when somebody does that to you (or doesn't roll over
for you) you hit them then claim they deserved it because they don't
know "the code". What a crock of shit."

Tony was the first driver to come into NASCAR with that attitude (see
2000 Watkins Glen), and that is where it went downhill in my opinion.
Man, I would love to see how Dale Sr would have reacted to Crybaby Kyle
or Diva Hamlin's antics. He'd have a field day with those two!

"I know Kevin Harvick will be going to Stewart Haas racing"

I hope not. He wouldn't do any better than Newman considering he's not
even the best performing driver at RCR right now, just like Newman
wasn't the best performing driver at Penske when he left. Plus, his
attitude towards Childress is disrespectful when things aren't the best.
Harvick can end up rideless for all I care, but that probably won't happen.


  86.   Eric posted:
  11.30.2009 - 7:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DaleSrFanForever,

If Rick Hendrick could find sponsorship,Why Kellogg's left the 5 car for
the 99 car?


  87.   Dodge posted:
  11.30.2009 - 11:22 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Besides, the worst motors that HMS produces already go to the #88 team."

Bronco, has it ever occurred to you that maybe Jr. is the reason why the
team sucks?Last couple years at DEI were mediocre at best and besides a
strong start in 2008, the last half he sucked. To still blame the
equipment is dumb. Even blaming the crew men/crew chief is just as dumb.
They brought in the smartest of the Hendrick employees and it still
didn't help.

Also, Keselowski will have a better year than Jr.


  88.   Bronco posted:
  12.01.2009 - 12:37 am
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"Bronco, has it ever occurred to you that maybe Jr. is the reason why
the team sucks?"

No that has not occurred to me, since Dale Jr is a talented driver with
18 Cup wins to prove it. He's not a top 5 guy like his father, or Gordon
and Johnson, but he sure as hell isn't a 25th place guy either.

"To still blame the equipment is dumb. Even blaming the crew men/crew
chief is just as dumb."

The facts speak for themselves. He had 3 engine failures this year, 1
more than the other three cars combined. He also had several mechanical
issues - losing the brakes at Watkins Glen, a bad transmission at
Charlotte, broken shock at Pocono. If the equipment he was getting was
so superior, those problems wouldn't be happening. And I'm not blaming
the crew chief either. Removing Tony Jr from the pit box didn't do
anything, the problems with the 88 go far beyond the crew chief. And I
thnk Lance has done a great job, although they have nothing to show for
it due to their terrible luck.

"Also, Keselowski will have a better year than Jr."

You wish.


  89.   Anonymous posted:
  12.01.2009 - 8:56 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

so is Marginal (S) Revenue Product motorsports returning next season?


  90.   Kit posted:
  12.01.2009 - 2:34 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"No that has not occurred to me, since Dale Jr is a talented driver with
18 Cup wins to prove it."

His success in prior seasons five years ago do not automatically carry
over to wins this season. If he wants to win, he still has to drive the
car to first place and win the race. His 18 wins do not drive the car
for him, HE does.

"He's not a top 5 guy like his father, or Gordon and Johnson, but he
sure as hell isn't a 25th place guy either."

He sure as hell is this past season because that's where he finished in
points.

"The facts speak for themselves. He had 3 engine failures this year, 1
more than the other three cars combined. He also had several mechanical
issues"

So did Mark Martin and he finished second in points. All the problems
that Dale Mears had with equipment do not amount to even half of the
races run this past season. Therefore, it does not explain why he was
still finishing poorly in races with no problems besides his own.
Homestead was a very good example of this.

"Removing Tony Jr from the pit box didn't do anything, the problems with
the 88 go far beyond the crew chief."

The problems with Dale Mears go far beyond the #88 and what equipment he
has received in his career.

"You wish."

Brad K already had a better 2009 than Dale Mears: he won a race.


  91.   Smokefan05 posted:
  12.01.2009 - 4:08 pm
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Ricky Craven said it best if could give Jr. advice "have fun." Jr. isn't
having fun (for whatever reason you want give or think of) If your
having fun, then stay, if your not having fun, retire.

"Man, I would love to see how Dale Sr would have reacted to Crybaby Kyle
or Diva Hamlin's antics. He'd have a field day with those two!"

I'd know what he'd say too "go and change your diaper."


  92.   Kit posted:
  12.01.2009 - 6:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Rick can't FORCE anyone to do anything. SHR is a seperate entity that
happens to have a strong business relationship with HMS."

Bronco, you need an education.

Rick supplies SHR with EVERYTHING they need to be a competitive team.
Without Hendrick, they are a start and park team. OF COURSE he can force
them to do anything. He has leverage!


  93.   Bronco posted:
  12.01.2009 - 6:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Rick supplies SHR with EVERYTHING they need to be a competitive team.
Without Hendrick, they are a start and park team. OF COURSE he can force
them to do anything. He has leverage!"

Sure he supplies SHR with everything they need, but he isn't exactly
doing it out of the kindness of his heart. He's being fed truckloads of
money for all that technical support that he gives, so it's a two-way
street. Why should he care who SHR hires and fires? All he's concerned
about is getting paid and the performance of his teams.

Back to my sponsorship point, I forgot to list Dish Network as another
sponsor that seems to have left the sport entirely, and Interstate
Batteries, Irwin Tools and Valvoline as other sponsors that have
drastically scaled back their sponsorship in recent years. And despite
all this, DaleSrFan thinks that Rick can just snap his fingers and have
sponsors lining up to sponsor Krashalotski in a third SHR car. Hell, he
couldn't even persuade Kelloggs and Fastenal to stay with the #5 Cup and
Nationwide teams.


  94.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.01.2009 - 7:09 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Rick can't FORCE anyone to do anything."

That is true. He also doesn't have to give SHR motors and chassis on par
with the stuff his own team is making and let them see their notebook.
When you have somebody that is so crucial to your success it is in your
best interests to follow their wishes, not build a team of nothing but
your buddies.

"SHR is a seperate entity that happens to have a strong business
relationship with HMS."

Take away all the HMS support and see how SHR does.

"Why the hell would he want to sabotage that relationship with giving
them the "worst motors" ever produced?"

1) SHR needs HMS a hell of a lot more than Rick needs his puppet 2) To
make a point to his puppet, which was my point to begin with. He needs
to show Tony which one of them pulls the strings in their relationship.
Rick made it clear he wanted Brad under the HMS umbrella, and Tony
didn't make it happen. When somebody has you at the end of a leash the
way Rick does with Tony, it isn't wise to go against their wishes. You
don't bite the hand that feeds you.

"So please, get your head out of your butt and realize that sponsorship
is hard for everyone to find, regardless of whether you're a start up
team or an established one."

Funny. He had no problem putting together a $30 million per year for
Dale Jr last year and getting GoDaddy (along with CarQuest and Delphi)
to replace Kelloggs.


  95.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.01.2009 - 7:13 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Man, I would love to see how Dale Sr would have reacted to Crybaby Kyle
or Diva Hamlin's antics. He'd have a field day with those two!"

He would do what he did with Geoff Bodine in the late 80s. Geoff had a
similar sense of entitlement, thinking he was better than everyone else
(though nowhere near as bad as Kryle and Diva) and thinking he could
rough people up. So Dale just crashed him almost every chance he got. I
wish I could find that video of Rick Hendrick at Bristol one year
whining about Dale after he spun Geoff out for about the 47th time. That
was a wonderful moment. Man I hated Geoff Bodine.


  96.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.01.2009 - 7:14 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"DaleSrFan thinks that Rick can just snap his fingers and have sponsors
lining up to sponsor Krashalotski in a third SHR car."

I think that because it is true.


  97.   Bronco posted:
  12.01.2009 - 9:11 pm
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"Funny. He had no problem putting together a $30 million per year for
Dale Jr last year and getting GoDaddy (along with CarQuest and Delphi)
to replace Kelloggs."

Um, that's because it's Dale Jr, a guy that companies will do anything
to sponsor, regardless of his performance. Does Krashalotski have Dale
Jr's popularity, or his resume for that matter to make finding
sponsorship that easy?

As for Mark, the guy has an outstanding resume and won 5 races this
year, yet he isn't fully sponsored for next season, he still has about 6
or 8 races to be filled up. So he still has a few holes to fill. And
Newman isn't fully sponsored for next season either, so it's funny how
you think Rick should just drop everything and find sponsorship for
Krashalotski in a hypothetical third SHR car.

"You don't bite the hand that feeds you."

Hahaha, I hardly think Rick is going to feel "bit" by Tony not taking
Krashalotski. And why would he? He's got more important things to worry
about, such as trying to get Johnson a fifth cha$e championship, helping
Mark and Jeff win more races, and trying to revive the 88 team.

"I think that because it is true."

Lol, I pointed out the fact that numerous sponsors that have left the
sport entirely as well as others who have scaled back, and yet you still
think with this economy it's easy to find sponsorship. If it really is
that easy, do your buddy Krashalotski a favor and go find him a sponsor
willing to plunk down ~$20 million for a third car at SHR. Otherwise,
don't act as if finding sponsorship is as easy as snapping your fingers


  98.   Dodge posted:
  12.02.2009 - 7:40 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Hey Kit and DaleSrFan and everyone else..........its not worth arguing
with Bronco because he THINKS he's always right. The rest of us know the
truth.


  99.   Talon64 posted:
  12.02.2009 - 4:46 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Here's some NATIONWIDE news (I get grief for bringing up JPM's past
exploits in other series because this is NASCAR-related boards but a
Nationwide race comments board has turned into a Cup discussion?):

Eric McClure's returning to the 24 Rensi team in 2010. No top tens in
108 starts, and an average finish of 26.2 that put him dead last in the
standings of guys who started all the races, just screams KEEP ME! It's
also a mystery as to why Hefty stays with this guy instead of someone
who actually has potential to be something more than a career NNS
backmarker.


  100.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.02.2009 - 7:20 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"don't act as if finding sponsorship is as easy as snapping your fingers"

When you are Rick Hendrick it is. You talk about those guy's resumes,
how about the resume for Hendrick Motorsports. They have no equal right
now. And SHR is obviously nothing but an extension of HMS, Rick's way of
weaseling around the 4 team limit. Even Ryan Newman made the cha$e in
Henrdick equipment, and he is decomposing as we speak.

"Hahaha, I hardly think Rick is going to feel "bit" by Tony not taking
Krashalotski. And why would he? He's got more important things to worry
about, such as trying to get Johnson a fifth cha$e championship, helping
Mark and Jeff win more races, and trying to revive the 88 team."

Which explains why, after Brad signed with Penske, Rick made a big
public stink about "not letting Brad stray too far". Oh wait, it doesn't.

"Does Krashalotski have Dale Jr's popularity, or his resume for that
matter to make finding sponsorship that easy?"

I don't know about popularity, but as far as resume, he has the same
number of Cup wins as Dale Jr from May 2006 to the present.


  101.   Bronco posted:
  12.03.2009 - 9:10 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"When you are Rick Hendrick it is."

If Rick had that kind of power, Newman's car would already have been
fully sponsored. The fact that it isn't totally debunks your little theory.

"Which explains why, after Brad signed with Penske, Rick made a big
public stink about "not letting Brad stray too far".

And he also gave Tony Eury Jr his vote of confidence that he was the
best guy to lead the 88 team, and we all know how that turned out right?
You're nuts if you think Rick is going to pursue Krashalotski in the
future when there are far more accomplished and talented drivers out
there who would love to drive HMS equipment. Kevin Harvick, Kasey Kahne,
or Carl Edwards anyone?

"I don't know about popularity, but as far as resume, he has the same
number of Cup wins as Dale Jr from May 2006 to the present. "

Haha buddy, in case you didn't notice, Dale Jr's career goes back to
2000 when he became a fulltime Cup driver and he has racked up 18 wins
in that time. So it's hilarious how you look at his recent victory
drought and compare Krashalotski's record to him in order to glorify
Krashalotski.

Wake me up when Krashalotski gets to 22 Nationwide wins, much less 18
Cup wins, okay?


  102.   New 14&88 Fan posted:
  12.03.2009 - 12:53 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Haha buddy, in case you didn't notice, Dale Jr's career goes back to
2000 when he became a fulltime Cup driver and he has racked up 18 wins
in that time. So it's hilarious how you look at his recent victory
drought and compare Krashalotski's record to him in order to glorify
Krashalotski."


Most of Dale Jr's 18 wins were A)the product of DEI's unbeatable plate
program(Micheal Waltrip would still be winless if it weren't for that)
and B)Tony Eury Sr. forcing Jr to focus on winning instead of seeing how
many ways he could come up with to screw himself out of a win...since
Eury Sr. left him the son of Dale's most recent wins consist of two pit
strategy moves and a fuel mileage fluke.The other times he's practically
been invisible,that shows me he needs some one on top of the pit box to
putting the fear of God into him to drive the hell out of his cars and
stay 100 percent focused on the race...or are you still gonna blame the
equipment for him abusing the high line and ruining the handling of a
winning car...and missing his pit stall more times than can be counted.


  103.   CFob posted:
  12.03.2009 - 1:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Haha buddy, in case you didn't notice, Dale Jr's career goes back to
2000 when he became a fulltime Cup driver and he has racked up 18 wins
in that time. So it's hilarious how you look at his recent victory
drought and compare Krashalotski's record to him in order to glorify
Krashalotski.

Wake me up when Krashalotski gets to 22 Nationwide wins, much less 18
Cup wins, okay? "

I'll call you in eight years.


  104.   Talon64 posted:
  12.03.2009 - 4:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Wake me up when Krashalotski gets to 22 Nationwide wins, much less 18
Cup wins, okay?"

Cup matters more than NNS, especially if Keselowski can ever win a Cup
championship.

But 13 of Dale Jr.'s wins came in his back-to-back championships in 1998
and 1999, also back when NNS regulars won a majority of the races. 6 of
his 9 wins after he moved up to Cup came at RP tracks, 5 at Daytona and
1 at Talledega during DEI's RP dominance (he also won at Bristol,
Richmond and Michigan). But those 9 wins came in just 41 races since
he's averaged only 5 NNS races a season.

Keselowski's 6 wins in the last two seasons is the most wins for an NNS
regular in the last 4 seasons, out of the 16 wins total for regulars.
But who knows how many races Keselowski will run in NNS over his career,
2010 might be the only time he does full time double duty and he could
only run 10-15 races a season.

I think you're harder on Keselowski than Kit is with JPM.


  105.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.04.2009 - 7:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"If Rick had that kind of power, Newman's car would already have been
fully sponsored. The fact that it isn't totally debunks your little theory."

It is sponsored by the Army and Haas auto parts. I'm not sure exactly
what they make, but they have had huge decals on HMS cars in the past
advertising their products. Just because Haas also owns the team doesn't
mean those are unsponsored races. Ryan is advertising Gene's product.

Talon, CFob, and New14+88Fan, you are all right about Brad.


  106.   Kit posted:
  12.04.2009 - 10:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"I think you're harder on Keselowski than Kit is with JPM."

Ehh, I'm not hard on JPM, just hard on people who try to say that his
Cup career is legendary after one half-way decent season with no wins.


  107.   Kit posted:
  12.04.2009 - 10:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Goddamn Bronco, you are now starting to remind of some of Willy on
Wheel's absurd posts.

"You're nuts if you think Rick is going to pursue Krashalotski in the
future when there are far more accomplished and talented drivers out
there who would love to drive HMS equipment. Kevin Harvick, Kasey Kahne,
or Carl Edwards anyone?"

Kevin Harvick is accomplished and talented? He sure hasn't been in the
past several seasons. If you're going to make an argument out of this,
at least pick a driver who's hasn't been comatose the past three years.


  108.   Kit posted:
  12.04.2009 - 10:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Wake me up when Krashalotski gets to 22 Nationwide wins, much less 18
Cup wins, okay?"

If Dale Mears can get 18 wins in the current Cup Series with a good crew
chief like Eury Sr., Brad should be able to get a championship or two.


  109.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.05.2009 - 11:43 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

If they put Brad Keselowski in DEI equipment from 2001 to 2007 (starting
at the age he is now) when they were really good (excluding 2005, but
even that year was due to a really bad crew swap necessitated by Dale Jr
and Tony Jr's immature attitudes when they mixed), and gave him Tony Sr
as his crew chief he would have won more than 18 races. He has already
shown he can win a Cup restrictor plate race with a borrowed car. Put
him in DEI's untouchable plate stuff from '01-'04 and he wins 10 plate
races over that stretch. If even Michael Waltrip can win 4 times in that
stretch and Dale Jr 7 times (he hasn't sniffed a plate win since except
Talladega '09 when he was beat by, you guessed it, Keselowski. Then
consider the races he has won in NWide cars vastly inferior to the JGR
Toyotas (he didn't even have manufacturer support from Chevy most of
last year), and I say he wins another 20 non-plate races through 2007.
Then, as a matured driver, he can become the focal point of DEI once
Dale Jr leaves to form the "Dream Team" with HMS and either help keep
DEI from imploding or jump ship to a better team. Hopefully Penske makes
a huge jump over the off season and this happens anyways.


  110.   Spen posted:
  12.06.2009 - 6:34 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DSFF : "Just because Haas also owns the team doesn't mean those are
unsponsored races." It does if the team isn't getting paid for the
logos. The 34 car may have Taco Bell on the hood, but that's only
because Bob Jenkins owns several. It's just a bit of free advertising.


  111.   Bronco posted:
  12.06.2009 - 9:31 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"It does if the team isn't getting paid for the logos. The 34 car may
have Taco Bell on the hood, but that's only because Bob Jenkins owns
several. It's just a bit of free advertising.

Thank you, at least someone around here understands how sponsorship
works. By having Haas Automation on the #39, Gene Haas is not recieving
any money, he's just paying the bills and advertising his product in the
process. It's the same thing with Childress Vineyards and how they
sometimes appear on his cars.

"Kevin Harvick is accomplished and talented? He sure hasn't been in the
past several seasons. If you're going to make an argument out of this,
at least pick a driver who's hasn't been comatose the past three years."

Kevin Harvick has 11 cup wins and 30+ Nationwide wins. Krashalotski has
1 lucky cup win and 6 Nationwide wins. You do the math buddy. Sure Kevin
hasn't won a points race in 3 years, and you can despise him all you
want, but he still has the better resume.

"If you're going to make an argument out of this, at least pick a driver
who's hasn't been comatose the past three years."

That's why I mentioned Kasey Kahne and Carl Edwards, genius. Have they
also been "comatose" the last 3 years? My point is there is no
compelling reason to hire Krashalotski when you have much better guys
out there.

"If Dale Mears can get 18 wins in the current Cup Series with a good
crew chief like Eury Sr., Brad should be able to get a championship or two."

With Jimmie Johnson trampling the competition on a yearly basis? That's
funny.


  112.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.06.2009 - 12:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"It's just a bit of free advertising."

Do you have any idea how much advertising costs? There is nothing free
about it.


  113.   Kit posted:
  12.06.2009 - 4:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"With Jimmie Johnson trampling the competition on a yearly basis? That's
funny."

No, what's funny is that you keep making lame excuses for a driver who
can't even accomplish shit with Jimmie Johnson as a teammate.


  114.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  12.07.2009 - 12:38 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Kevin Harvick has 11 cup wins and 30+ Nationwide wins. Krashalotski has
1 lucky cup win and 6 Nationwide wins."

That's because Harvick has been around a lot longer than Brad. Harvick
has raced Nationwide since 2000 and Cup since 2001, Brad just started
racing Nationwide full-time in 2007 and will be running his first
full-time season next year. So you really can't judge by comparing their
stats.


  115.   Bronco posted:
  12.07.2009 - 1:14 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"If even Michael Waltrip can win 4 times in that stretch and Dale Jr 7
times (he hasn't sniffed a plate win since except Talladega '09 when he
was beat by, you guessed it, Keselowski"

Just when I think you're all out of stupid things to say, you go out
there and outdo yourself. Okay then, here goes.

If you've actually watched any of the restrictor plate races in the last
few years as opposed to sitting on your ass and making dumb comments,
you would know how laughable that statement really is. Dale Jr almost
won a second straight Daytona 500 in 2005, but narrowly lost out after
an exciting battle with Jeff Gordon at the end. Then there was the fall
2006 race at Talladega, where he led at the white flag and got wrecked
by Vickers. And in between, he led the most laps at the 2006 Daytona 500
as well. So don't give me the bullshit that his restrictor plate success
had nothing to do with his ability to work the draft. He's an Earnhardt
for crying out loud, if there's one thing he learned from the old man,
it was how to use the air at the superspeedways.

After competing in 8 points races at Daytona and Talladega under the
Hendrick umbrella, Dale Jr has 4 top 10s. In that same stretch of time,
Gordon has 0 top 10s, Johnson has 3 top 10s, Mears got one last year,
and Martin has none. So Dale Jr has the same number of top tens in 8
starts as the other 3 cars do in 24 starts. If you were to look at other
stats such as laps led or driver rating, I'm fairly certain he'd come
out ahead there as well. Sure, he doesn't have any wins, but neither do
they. What he does have is a Bud Shootout and a Daytona qualifier win,
while his teammates combined only have one qualifier win between them.

"Put him in DEI's untouchable plate stuff from '01-'04 and he wins 10
plate races over that stretch."

Where did you get that number from? Straight out of your ass, I guess?
Krashalotski didn't drive for DEI from 2001 to 2004, nor will he ever be
in DEI equipment, so it's pointless to speculate on what could have been.


  116.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.07.2009 - 12:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Where did you get that number from? Straight out of your ass, I guess?"

If you are going to debate this, at least DEBATE this instead of relying
on schoolyard insults. You start out every rebuttal pointing out how
stupid I am, then at some point mention that I either a) have my head up
my ass b) only sit on my ass and make dumb comments c) pull information
out of my ass or d) some combination of something involving my ass (and
then have the nerve to call me out for spelling and grammar). Just for
the record, I completed the 6th grade 13 years ago (and have since
completed middle school, high school, and a 4 year college degree at a
state run University) and have no desire to go back.

Besides, if you would read all of post #109 you will see I made a long
run-on paragraph explaining why I think Brad would have been successful
in that era in the same cars Dale Jr was driving at the time. I then
made a guess based on that info. So if I have all that in my ass, then I
have some serious issues. And considering how skinny I am, that would be
REALLY painful.


  117.   Kit posted:
  12.07.2009 - 2:49 pm
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The biggest difference I see between Dale Mears and Brad K. right now is
that Brad K. is acting like a man just like Dale Sr. did. Dale Mears, on
the other hand, is like a kid who won't grow up. That contributes a lot
to Dale Mears' lack of success in the past few years.


  118.   Bronco posted:
  12.07.2009 - 4:34 pm
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"If you are going to debate this, at least DEBATE this instead of
relying on schoolyard insults."

There is no debate. Krashalotski never drove for DEI, never will drive
for DEI and so like I said, there's no telling what could or couldn't
have happened.

"and then have the nerve to call me out for spelling and grammar)"

I don't recall ever calling you out for spelling, since most of us are
prone to making minor typos when post on these message boards. I did
however call you out for not knowing the difference in usage between
"their" and "there" which is (in my opinion) pretty bad for someone with
a four year college degree. Rather than calling me a lawyer, you would
probably be a lot better off making sure that you don't repeat a similar
mistake on things that you are likely to write in the future, such as
resumés and cover letters.


  119.   Spen posted:
  12.07.2009 - 4:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DSFF : True, perhaps 'free advertising' was a poor choice of words.
That's what happens when one makes a post at three in the morning. What
I should have called it is 'self-promotion'. No matter what you call it
though, it doesn't change the fact that he isn't getting paid to put the
logos on the car.


  120.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.07.2009 - 6:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

You make some good points Spen. Thanks for not lowering yourself to
schoolyard insults.

"No matter what you call it though, it doesn't change the fact that he
isn't getting paid to put the logos on the car."

That is definitely true, but it also saves him from having to pay
someone else somewhere to advertise for him. So it evens itself out in
the long run.

"There is no debate. Krashalotski never drove for DEI, never will drive
for DEI and so like I said, there's no telling what could or couldn't
have happened."

That is a big part of the fun of following sports is playing the "what
if" game. What if Portland drafts Michael Jordan? What if Minnesota
doesn't give Dallas 600 draft picks for Hershel Walker? What if Mickey
Mantle doesn't play most of his career on only one good leg? If Ryan
Leaf never existed, who would we make fun of?


  121.   Talon64 posted:
  12.07.2009 - 7:02 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Danica's coming to Nationwide and ARCA next year with JRM. The official
announcement's tomorrow. Her races will be the most focus anyone's given
to a driver running 15th-25th since... well, Dale Jr.!

Whenever Danica wrecks she'll probably get just as much attention as
Jimmie did at Texas too.


  122.   Kit posted:
  12.07.2009 - 7:56 pm
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It's probably best to just ignore her.


  123.   Spen posted:
  12.07.2009 - 11:33 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

As long as she doesn't shoot anymore Godaddy commercials, I have no
problem with her.


  124.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  12.07.2009 - 11:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Whenever Danica wrecks she'll probably get just as much attention as
Jimmie did at Texas too."

Unfortunately, I wouldn't be surprised if that were to be. The media
already drools and fawns all over her as it is. I'll be ignoring her as
well as long as she stays away from my favorite drivers.


  125.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.08.2009 - 6:24 pm
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"It's probably best to just ignore her."

I agree.


  126.   Eric posted:
  12.08.2009 - 11:55 pm
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Dale Jr. has nothing to do with Danica Patrick being at Jr. Motorsports
as it appears. There is proof that backs up that statement.

According to a espn chat with Terry Blount, some asked Terry if Dale Jr
is cutting back his "outside" interests?

Terry said not really. Terry did mention that Junior deliberately wants
to stay away from Danica mania as much as he can, but Some of that will
be unavoidable.

The proof is http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/29832 .

That means Dale Jr wants to focus on doing better on the cup side next
year.


  127.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.09.2009 - 1:50 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"That means Dale Jr wants to focus on doing better on the cup side next
year."

That would be like Jake Delhomme saying he wants to cut down on his
interceptions, or Tony Romo saying he wants to be better in December and
January, or Dan Snyder saying he wants to do a better job of not
crippling his franchise with really crappy draft picks and expensive
washed up free agent pick ups.

Or Michael Waltrip saying he wants to go at least 2 years between
embarrassing drunken car wrecks.


  128.   Talon64 posted:
  12.09.2009 - 4:20 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Kelley Earnhardt's been the one handling Danicamania, and that's
probably the big reason why she became a part owner of JR Motorsports
and why she was the one representing the team at Danica's announcement.

Danica and Jr. first met when they were in that Jay-Z video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qopwiGItevI


  129.   Kit posted:
  12.10.2009 - 12:54 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Haha!

"That means Dale Jr wants to focus on doing better on the cup side next
year."

This guy has ran 10 full-time seasons in Cup... he never should have
lost focus in the first place. I don't think his marbles are all there.


  130.   Bronco posted:
  12.10.2009 - 1:21 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"This guy has ran 10 full-time seasons in Cup... he never should have
lost focus in the first place."

Who said he lost his focus in the first place? That's just something you
and a few others have said, but I'm not exactly sure how you can prove
that.

I remember back in 2008, during pre season testing at Daytona, he flew
to the track ahead of his scheduled test session to get to know his new
teammates and his new organization. A guy who isn't focused on doing
well or who doesn't care about his racing career probably wouldn't do
that. And don't try and tell me it was some sort of a publicity stunt.

Sure he's not perfect, and sometimes his focus wavers, but that doesn't
mean his "marbles" aren't there.


  131.   Talon64 posted:
  12.10.2009 - 4:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I think Dale Jr.'s as motivated as anyone to run well. He knows more
than anyone the pressure he's under being the most popular driver in
NASCAR and if anything it was that desire that led to the frustration
that really screwed his head around when things fell off the rails so
badly this season. I don't know how much Dale Jr. was involved in
day-to-day stuff with JR Motorsports in the first place but with Kelley
Earnhardt taking part ownership it'll probably be a lot less now.

He can't help being the most popular guy in his sport; it's not like
Danica Patrick where you don't know whether she cares more about being a
race car driver or being a media darling.


  132.   Eric posted:
  12.10.2009 - 6:50 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Bronco,

Dale Jr. had distractions during the off season in 2008 and they might
have impacted the early part of the 2009 season. After the season ended
in 2008, a bouncer from the Bar he owned got arrested for selling
cocaine. The arrest happened early December 2008. The proof is
http://news14.com/charlotte-news-104-content/top_stories/?ArID=602113 .
At the time, his bar had other drug dealers and other unwanted types at
his bar by the way it sounded. Dale probably spent the off season trying
to clean up his bar's image.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. was involved in Building a race track in Alabama
during the 2008 off season that including a 1 mile track and a road
Course before Dale Jr. decided to pull out during the summer due to Dale
Jr. wanting to focus more on racing.


  133.   Eric posted:
  12.10.2009 - 6:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Talon64,

You forgot that Rick Hendrick is one of the owners of Junior Motorsports
besides Kelly Earnhardt.


  134.   Eric posted:
  12.10.2009 - 7:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The problem that Dale Jr. had with bar was his own fault. His Bar opened
in May 2008 but by December 2008, his bar had a bad reputation.

His bar was known for problems like people selling illegal drugs in his
bar. The could have been other problems with bar that I don't know
about, and I don't want to know about anyway.

The only thing that is certain is Dale Jr. did a bad of hiring people or
finding people to take care of his bar while he was busy racing during
cup weekends.


  135.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.10.2009 - 7:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Who said he lost his focus in the first place? That's just something
you and a few others have said, but I'm not exactly sure how you can
prove that."

Jimmie Johnson: 1st in points, 7 wins
Mark Martin: 2nd in points, 5 wins
Jeff Gordon: 3rd in points, 1 win, 1 bad back, no edge anymore
Tony Stewart: 6th in points, 4 wins, Tons of psychological issues
Ryan Newman: 9th in points, 0 wins, Been dead for 4 years
Brad Keselowski: part time season, 1 win
The Guy Who Drives The #88 Car: 25th in points, 0 wins

Cue up the Sesame Street music: One of these things is not like the other!


  136.   Kit posted:
  12.10.2009 - 10:32 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Who said he lost his focus in the first place? That's just something
you and a few others have said, but I'm not exactly sure how you can
prove that."

Dale Earnhardt Jr.
25th in points
36 starts
0 wins
2 Top Fives
5 Top Tens


  137.   Bronco posted:
  12.10.2009 - 11:36 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Lol, I'm not sure why the two of you need to pull up the same old
numbers over and over again. Yes, belive it or not, I'm fully aware of
how bad 2009 really was. And yes, he was to blame for missing his pit
stall, as well as running too high and hitting the wall and ruining his
car a few times.

But you don't finish 25th in points because you have "focus" issues. You
finish that low because your organizations decides to use you a test
driver to help the other 3 teams once they realized you don't have a
prayer of making the cha$e. You finish that low because of several
wrecks while running in the top 10. You finish that low because of 3
engine failures (unheard of for a Hendrick car), as well as broken
shocks, transmission and brake failures.

It's a combination of factors like that which leads to a guy with 18 Cup
wins under his belt finishing behind rookies and other guys driving for
worse teams. He didn't just forget how to drive people, although I'm
sure that's what most of you think just by looking at pure numbers.


  138.   Talon64 posted:
  12.11.2009 - 4:30 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

If Dale Jr. did lose focus it was because he was trying too hard and it
resulted in the mistakes he made on the track and in the pits that just
further compounded his problems and made him try harder, so on and so on.

He just needs to forget about 2009 and try to have a good start to 2010.
He's shown before that he can bounce back from bad seasons like from
2005 to 2006. I'm just wondering if Lance McGrew is the right guy, he's
never had a great track record in Cup compared to other Hendrick crew
chiefs (although he won the 2003 Nationwide championship with Brian
Vickers).


  139.   Kit posted:
  12.11.2009 - 5:07 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Yes, belive it or not, I'm fully aware of how bad 2009 really was."

Yet you keep trying to blame it on Hendrick rather than Dale Mears.
Hendrick had an EXCELLENT year in spite of Dale Mears.


  140.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.11.2009 - 5:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"You finish that low because your organizations decides to use you a
test driver to help the other 3 teams once they realized you don't have
a prayer of making the cha$e."

Which should never ever happen in an HMS car during their best overall
season to date. And it was obvious by the beginning of JUNE that he
could never make the TWELVE man cutoff in early SEPTEMBER. Yes, the test
work deflated his final numbers a little bit, but nobody can make an
argument saying he was a top twenty driver all year. Yeah, he showed a
few flashes here and there of competitiveness, but so did Sideways Sam
Hornish. I think when you consider how spectacular the equipment he was
driving was, that cancels out all the bad luck due to the R&D work.

Quite simply, Dale Mears was the 25th best driver in 2009. And I think
you could make a damn good argument that he was actually worse than that.


  141.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  12.11.2009 - 6:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DaleSrFanForever, it's funny you mention Hornish because as bad as he
did, he actually had more top-10's than Jr this season.

My bottom line: Every other Hendrick car was in the Chase, the 88 was
not. Jr better not repeat this performance next year, or matters will be
even worse for him.


  142.   Bronco posted:
  12.11.2009 - 10:21 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Quite simply, Dale Mears was the 25th best driver in 2009."

Quite simply, there's an interesting statistic called "Loop Data" that
rates driver performance which says otherwise. But of course, I don't
really expect you to know about or understand it.

"but nobody can make an argument saying he was a top twenty driver all
year."

Loop Data can.

"he actually had more top-10's than Jr this season."

For every top 10 he has, he has another 3 finishes of 30th or worse to
go with it. With the exception of crashes at Talladega and Watkins Glen
and an engine failure, all his poor finishes were of his own making.
Heck, he's not even where JPM was in his rookie year despite driving for
a better team.


  143.   Kit posted:
  12.12.2009 - 2:32 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Bronco, Bronco, Bronco... hahaha

"Quite simply, there's an interesting statistic called "Loop Data" that
rates driver performance which says otherwise. But of course, I don't
really expect you to know about or understand it."

Who gives a shit about loop data? Shit, man, are you serious? Awarding a
driver based on loop data is the same as giving him a f**king
participation ribbon.

Do we rate legendary drivers on the basis on loop data? Did we award
Alan Kulwicki the 1992 championship on loop data? Did we give Bill
Elliott 44 wins based on loop data? Do we refer to Harry Gant as Mr.
September based on loop data? Is Dale Earnhardt legendary based on loop
data?

The same is the same for all of those questions: NO.

It's pathetic that the past couple of seasons for Dale Mears have been
so bad that you have to look at his loop data in order to cheer yourself
up. "See! He passed a car during a race!!!"

I'm sure Dale Mears' loop data is going to compare favorably to Dale
Earnhardt's seven championships.

hahaha


  144.   Bronco posted:
  12.12.2009 - 10:06 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Who gives a shit about loop data?"

Quite simply I do, because it's a meaningful statistic that is a true
measure of driver performance. Sure, in the end points are given out
based on your finish, but the point is loop data shows several drivers
performed much better or worse than their points standing position. And
that totally debunks DaleSrFan's little "argument".

"It's pathetic that the past couple of seasons for Dale Mears have been
so bad that you have to look at his loop data in order to cheer yourself
up."

Nah, what's really pathetic is that you need to come to this website to
bash drivers in order to feel better about your own pathetic existence.
What exactly have you accomplished, to give you the right to bash
Michael Waltrip's driving record? I'm not talking about racing, but what
have you accomplished in your own personal life to make you think you're
so superior?


  145.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.12.2009 - 11:51 am
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"Quite simply, there's an interesting statistic called "Loop Data" that
rates driver performance which says otherwise. But of course, I don't
really expect you to know about or understand it."

There you go again. Relying on insults. Oh well, at least you didn't
mention my ass anywhere. So I guess you are making some progress in the
debate department. Even though you never mentioned exactly what the loop
data says that proves Dale Mears is better than a 25th place driver in
2009. So again, it was never really "debated". And again, regardless
what it says, it fails to factor in that HE DROVE A HENDRICK MOTORSPORTS
CAR IN 2009. His cars were built in the same shop that built Mark
Martin's cars which he won 5 times in and finished 2nd in points despite
not running a full schedule since 2006 before this year. Cars with HMS
chassis and motors won 18 of 36 races (50%) including Brad K in his 5th
Cup start while running a part time schedule. All of his full time
teammates finished in the Top 10 in points.

But I definitely think loop data stats are useless for the same reason
stats in every other sport are useless. They don't factor in the
important stuff. They don't penalize drivers for making back breaking
mistakes with blatently superior cars (which we will refer to as
"Montoyas"), they don't reward drivers with less budgeted teams beating
the top dollar guys, and generally don't tell the whole story. Dale
Mears passes a lot of cars at Homestead after making extra pit stops to
fix the damage on his car after he hit wall 46 times. HE SHOULDN'T HAVE
HAD TO PASS THOSE CARS!!!!!!

Another thing, according to the loop data Kurt Busch had a perfect race
at Atlanta in the Spring. Even though he once got passed on the race
track (albeit briefly) under green flag conditions. That isn't a perfect
race. A perfect race is Cale Yarborough winning the pole, leading all
500 laps, and lapping the field twice at Bristol. At the very least, you
shouldn't be passed on the track under green to have a perfect race.

You just can't rely on stats like that. It is like Wilt Chamberlain.
Statistically he was twice as good as Bill Russell, even though Russell
beat him in the playoffs every year except for one. Statistically, Wayne
Gretzky is the best hockey player ever by a mile, even though he never
won a Stanley Cup without Mark Messier and that great Oilers team, while
Messier won 2 additional Stanley Cups without The Great One. Barry Bonds
is suposedly the greatest all around player ever statistically (even
though he was on roids) but he never won a World Series in an era where
expansion teams were winning it (the Marlins 2x and the D-Backs).

And again, just in case I haven't mentioned it enough: Dale Mears
finished 25th in an HMS car. Period.


  146.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.12.2009 - 12:05 pm
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Here's a good example:

The Labor Day Race at Atlanta. Dale Mears finished 17th in an HMS car,
the best organization in NASCAR in 2009 by a mile and he has the biggest
sponsorship deal in the garage. Bobby Labonte finished 18th in the #71
car which has to start and park over 1/3 of the time (13 of 35 races)
because they don't have the budget to run a full race. Here are the Loop
Data driver rating stats for that race:

Dale Mears: 85.0
Bobby Labonte: 69.4

Does anyone really think Dale Mears did a better job of driving in that
race as compared to Bobby Labonte? Especially 15.6 points better? Bobby
overachieved big time with a floundering team while Dale Mears
underachieved big time with a powerhouse. Yet he's 15.6 points better?
See, that is what isn't factored in, that is what the computers can't
calculate.


  147.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.12.2009 - 12:15 pm
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"Did we award Alan Kulwicki the 1992 championship on loop data?"

Great example. If they had Loop data back then, Bill and Davey would
have probably crushed Alan in the driver rating. It wouldn't have
factored in the fact that Alan had a MUCH lower budget than the Junior
Johnson and RYR teams. Yet when you look at the list of Winston Cup
champions, next to 1992 it reads "Alan Kulwicki".

"Do we refer to Harry Gant as Mr. September based on loop data?"

Shit, if they had those computers and the Loop Data software in
September 1991, ol' Harry would have caused them to explode and catch
the NASCAR scoring tower on fire. Another thing, do they have a stat for
"51 year old that just completed a grueling 4 hour 500 mile/lap race at
tough tracks like Darlington, Dover, or Martinsville in the dog days of
September, yet climbed out of his car looking like he'd been lounging on
a couch in an air conditioned den for the last few hours". If we are
gonna rely on stats, we need real ones.


  148.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.12.2009 - 12:49 pm
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Here are some stats I'd like to see:

Handsome Harrys: See post #147

Montoyas: When you have a completely untouchable car and a huge lead
late in a prestigous race while riding a 2+ year winless streak then
completely choke it away.

Shrubs: When you have a 8th to 12th place car and finished in the 30s
with it because you're pissed off that you can't win every week cause
you think its your God given right.

Pearsons: When you win a race without your heart rate ever going over 50
bpm.

Yarboroughs: When you lead every lap of a race.

Dick Trickles: The number of cigarettes you smoke during a race.

Gordons/Johnsons: When something happens in the middle of a race that
puts you way behind but you end up winning anyways.

Junebugs: When something happens in the middle of a race that puts you
way behind and you make thing even worse.

Stewarts: When you crash the hell out of your own car trying to crash
someone else (Vegas '06, Kansas '08, Homestead '09)

Harvicks: When you win the Daytona 500 in spectacular fashion then take
the next 3 years off. (Newman will be eligible for this at the end of
next year)

Swervin Irvans: When you cause an accident that takes out yourself as
well as at least 5 other cars one week after winning a race.

Richmonds: When you win a race with your car almost wrecking on every lap.

Mikeys: When you finish outside of the Top 10 on a short track

Menards: When you run every race in a season and don't get a single Top
10 finish.

John Wrecks Weeklys: When you crash 2 cars in the same weekend

Son of Rustys: When you crash into an inanimate fence or crash under caution

Earnhardts: When you win with a car that shouldn't even be in the Top
10. (Kasey Kahne has a few of these)


  149.   Bronco posted:
  12.12.2009 - 1:46 pm
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Causeawreckskis: When you needlessly wreck the guy(s) in front of you
because you can't make a clean pass.


  150.   Dodge posted:
  12.12.2009 - 5:37 pm
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Bronco, you're pathetic. It's always someone else fault for Jr. And BRAD
IS THE BETTER DRIVER of the two.
As for Jr.'s season, stats don't lie and I am not talking Loop Data
Stats. He FINISHED 25 IN POINTS AND THAT IS where he ranks.

By the way, for that you don't call out my spelling I took extra time to
make sure it's all right. Never thought I'd say it but Kit is right
about Jr, as is DaleSrFan to name a two.


  151.   Smokefan05 posted:
  12.12.2009 - 7:22 pm
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"Shrubs: When you have a 8th to 12th place car and finished in the 30s
with it because you're pissed off that you can't win every week cause
you think its your God given right."

Diva Hamlin would work with that sentence too DSFF. :)




  152.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.12.2009 - 9:40 pm
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Bronco, I'll assume you are throwing in the towel on the Loop data debate.


  153.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.12.2009 - 9:40 pm
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Yes, Diva has pulled quite a few Shrubs.


  154.   Kit posted:
  12.12.2009 - 11:11 pm
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Bwahahahahaha!

But I think a Swervin Irvan is where you wreck a bunch of cars for 15th
place.


  155.   Spen posted:
  12.13.2009 - 12:12 am
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"Yarboroughs: When you lead every lap of a race." I always thought of
that as pulling a Ned Jarrett, but then again, I'm old.


  156.   New 14&88 Fan posted:
  12.13.2009 - 1:35 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Montoyas: When you have a completely untouchable car and a huge lead
late in a prestigous race while riding a 2+ year winless streak then
completely choke it away."

Shrub and Diva have pulled some of these as well,except they've never
had 2+ year winless streaks....yet


  157.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  12.13.2009 - 1:41 am
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Shrub and Diva are able carry enough momentum to win more often.


  158.   Bronco posted:
  12.13.2009 - 9:51 am
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"Bronco, you're pathetic. It's always someone else fault for Jr. And
BRAD IS THE BETTER DRIVER of the two."

Hahahaha, and you're saying that based on the fact that Krashalotski has
16 less Nationwide wins and 17 less Cup wins? Like you said buddy, stats
don't lie.

"Bronco, I'll assume you are throwing in the towel on the Loop data debate."

With you guys, yeah, because trying to talk sense into some of you is
like talking to a brick wall. You can deny it all you want, but Loop
Data is what truly shows well a driver performed in a race, or the
season for that matter. Finishing results are often distorted by things
like rain, wrecks, fuel mileage, mechanical problems, but Loop Data
factors in a variety of aspects in the final driver rating.


  159.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.13.2009 - 12:05 pm
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"You can deny it all you want, but Loop Data is what truly shows well a
driver performed in a race, or the season for that matter. Finishing
results are often distorted by things like rain, wrecks, fuel mileage,
mechanical problems, but Loop Data factors in a variety of aspects in
the final driver rating."

Which explains why Dale Mears was 15.6 driver points better than Bobby
Labonte at Atlanta despite finishing just one position better than him
while driving with motors and chassis that won half of the season's
races, took 5 cha$e spots (with only 6 full time teams), and swept the
top of the points, and Bobby was driving for a single car team that was
never in the Top 35 in points with an extremely low budget.

Or how about this: In the 2006 Coke 600, Dale Jarrett crashed out in
Turn 3 on the very first lap and was credited with completing 0 of 400
laps. He failed to finish 600 total miles. He started 37th, and in the
3/4 of a lap he did complete, he passed one car and got passed by three
others for a -2 differential. Yet his driver rating was 26.8. So
basically you get 26.8 points for free. He should have a negative driver
rating for that race. Even though it was his spotter's fault, which
brings me to my next point:

For all the things it factors in, there is a hell of a lot more it
doesn't, which I've explained in previous posts. Another example from
this very race: Kevin Hamlin. He started 43rd, completed 3 laps, managed
to get a -4 pass differential, finished 43rd, and got a driver rating of
28.3. What the hell? I mean seriously, WHAT THE HELL??? First of all,
how do you start last and get a -4 passing differential? 3 cars had to
go to the back before the start of this race. So that means the Loop
Data must award him a "pass" of those cars right off the bat. That is
fradulent. Plus he probably passed the 42nd place starter before the
green fell. That shouldn't count either.. What about a stat for when you
break an on track rule but NASCAR looks the other way (which should also
be named after Dale Mears). Yet Kevin still gets a 28.3

See, the loop data driver rating system has more holes in it than Clint
Eastwood at the end of Gran Torino.

"With you guys, yeah, because trying to talk sense into some of you is
like talking to a brick wall."

I have given example after example after example of why that is a crock
(when I shouldn't even have to, he finished 25th in points in an HMS
car, that says it all). How many brick walls do that? All you have done
is say that Loop Data proves Dale Mears was a good driver in 2009
without a) saying what exactly the driver rating proves or b) saying
what Dale Mears' numbers are on this system that makes him better than
the 25th best driver in 2009, which to me is actually a generous rating
considering how great his equipment is, his years of experience, and how
infrequently he ran up front. To me, the only drivers that did worse
than him were Michael Waltrip, David Stremme, Paul Menard, and Sam
Hornish. Hell, I'd even argue Blaney did a better "driving" job, getting
Phil Start and Parksons' car in the field 30 of the 34 times he
attempted to do so.


  160.   Dodge posted:
  12.13.2009 - 3:48 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Hahahaha, and you're saying that based on the fact that Krashalotski has
16 less Nationwide wins and 17 less Cup wins? Like you said buddy, stats
don't lie.

And how many years has Jr. been in each series? In Nationwide, since
1997 or so and always had good cars. In cup, since 1999.

Brad has been in since about 2006 and that was basically for a team that
was a little above a start and park team. In Cup, since 2008.


  161.   Kit posted:
  12.13.2009 - 6:22 pm
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There's no point at arguing with Bronco at this point. He has been
totally beat and is now just trying to save face. He cannot surmount the
evidence.


  162.   Dodge posted:
  12.13.2009 - 8:39 pm
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"There's no point at arguing with Bronco at this point. He has been
totally beat and is now just trying to save face. He cannot surmount the
evidence."

I agree Kit. We know the truth and all he knows is bull. Hard to believe
that you and I can agree sometimes. But, I think I will work on that to
make it more often because you seem to know what you are talking about
unlike one person. You and DaleSrFan always give a good read and laugh.


  163.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.13.2009 - 8:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I kinda glad Bronco brought up the Loop Data stats. I'd been hearing
about them, but didn't know much about them and didn't really care to.
But through this "discussion" (translation: me bringing up a bunch of
stats and holes in the system and Bronco claiming I just don't
understand and act like a brick wall even though I've never seen a brick
wall put an argument together) I now see what I suspected all along. The
Loop Data is a big giant pile of shit. Through Bronco, I have learned
something. It just goes to show you, you can gather knowledge from anyone.

I mean seriously: I don't mean to beat this point to death, but Kevin
Hamlin started 43rd, had a pass differential of -4, and finished 43rd.
And his driver rating was 28.3. Shouldn't he have a negative driver
rating? You start last, get passed 4 more times than you pass, and
finish last. How can you get any positive points for that? If you have
$300 on your credit card amount and spend $450, you are in the negative.
You don't get credited with $28.03. And again, how the hell do you start
last, finish last, and still have a -4 pass differential? That just
doesn't make any sense. Did the pace car pass him along with 3 clean up
trucks? Or was he awarded a "pass" on cars that qualified ahead of him
but had to start in the rear due to unapproved changes? In that case,
the driver rating system should re-adjust his starting position, or it
isn't truly a "driver rating system" because the driver had nothing to
do with that "pass". IT JUST DOESN'T ADD UP.


  164.   Talon64 posted:
  12.14.2009 - 4:48 pm
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Driver ratings are like quarterback ratings, they look nice but you
don't have a clue how they figure it out and they still don't stack up
to actual results. Dale Jr. had the 4th best driver rating in 2008 but
that doesn't reflect how badly he did in the Chase. Same for Kyle Busch
and his 3rd best driver rating.

Driver rating's defined as "A formula combining the following
categories: Win, Finish, Top-15 Finish, Average Running Position while
on Lead Lap, Average Speed Under Green, Fastest Lap, Led Most Laps,
Lead-Lap Finish. Maximum: 150 points per race." DSFF's right, how some
awful results get any points at all based on that criteria is beyond me.
At least in football you can get QB ratings of zero that accurately
reflect completely dismal performances or the usual JaMarcus Russell outing.

Dale Jr. had an awful season and 25th in points is about where he
deserved to be. His bad starting average, 22.2 compared to just 10.3
last year, caused some of his problems because of having to make up a
lot of track position in each race; he started 30th or worse 10 times,
including Homestead which is pretty much the perfect microcosm of his
season.

Hopefully next year will be a lot better because it has to be.


  165.   Smokefan05 posted:
  12.14.2009 - 5:49 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Driver Ratings don't explain a 25th points finish.

"Hopefully next year will be a lot better because it has to be."

And "if" it doesn't get better then something BIG will have too happen.


  166.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  12.14.2009 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Well said, Smokefan05. If Jr can't even improve from this horrible
season, there's gonna have to be something done. As much media coverage
as he gets and considering the talent he showed when he first started in
Cup, there's no reason for him to finish 25th in points at an age where
he should be in his prime.


  167.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.15.2009 - 4:09 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"how some awful results get any points at all based on that criteria is
beyond me."

It just doesn't make any sense. Another example I found is the 2006 Fall
Atlanta race. This was the weekend that Kevin Harvick came in 2nd in
points. Quals were rained out so he got to start 2nd. But he skipped
Happy Hour to run the Busch race in Memphis because a) as we all know
the Busch/NWide title is so freaking prestigious when you have a ton of
experience in Cup and b) HE HAD ALREADY CLINCHED THE FREAKING TITLE OVER
THERE!!!! PRIORITIES?!?!?

But to the Loop Data point. He started second, led 9 laps early then
dropped like a friggin anvil. He ended up getting lapped FOUR times just
from being that much slower than the leaders and finished THIRTY FIRST!!
He had a pass differential of NEGATIVE THIRTY TWO!! He only stayed in
the Top 15 for 53 laps. Yet his final rating was 81.9. YOU HAVE GOT TO
BE KIDDING ME!!!

And then, in the same race, Mark Martin started 7th, spent THREE HUNDRED
AND FIVE LAPS in the Top 15, got caught in a wreck that wasn't his fault
with less than 20 laps to go, and got a driver rating of 73.8. He is 8.1
points worse than Harvick even though he only finished 5 spots behind
despite being crashed out while Kevin had no crash damage, mechanical
issues, or bad pit calls. Again: WHAT THE HELL????

And another one of my personal favorites: Indy 2009. Juan Montoya gets a
131.7 DRIVER rating, even though that DRIVER totally screwed himself out
of a win in a dominant car. I don't want to hear about Loop Data stats
again ever.


  168.   Talon64 posted:
  12.15.2009 - 4:38 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Danica is bring along other female drivers to stock cars

Although I'd never heard of her before and don't know how good a race
car driver she really is, Leilani Munter is going be in the ARCA test
with Mark Gibson Racing.

http://www.arcaracing.com/news.php?contentid=9121

But get ready to cringe: Milka Duno will be at the ARCA test too.


  169.   Kit posted:
  12.15.2009 - 5:55 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Wow Talon, and I thought we were in the clear by ridding ourselves of
Michael Drunktrip...


  170.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  12.15.2009 - 7:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I heard about Milka Duno testing for Braun Racing. What the hell were
those guys thinking putting Duno behind the wheel of a stock-car? Do
they really need drivers that bad? She doesn't even have any idea how to
race in IRL!


  171.   Talon64 posted:
  12.15.2009 - 7:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I wish Kelley Earnhardt had kept racing, then there'd be both a
successful female driver and at least one successful Earnhardt racing today.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2009-12-15-kelley-earnhardt_N.htm?csp=usat.me


  172.   Smokefan05 posted:
  12.15.2009 - 7:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"I don't want to hear about Loop Data stats again ever."

Bronco will KEEP bring them up DSFF, you aren't done with those stats
yet. ;)


  173.   Kit posted:
  12.15.2009 - 8:21 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Apparently, it's getting to the point where quality is being thrown out
for quick bucks. They forget that quality WILL bring in money, short and
long term.

The one good thing I will say about Danica Patrick is that at least she
can finish IRL races without wrecking. Milka Duno has no business in the
driver's seat at all. She races like how Michael Drunktrip drives home
from the bar.

Even since Dale Earnhardt died, it's like the sport forgot how a
domineering driver can be great, bring attention, AND bring in money.
These vanilla drivers lately like Jimmie Johnson don't have the same
effect.


  174.   Spen posted:
  12.15.2009 - 9:01 pm
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Leilani's relatively decent from what I remember. If these teams really
want a female driver so badly, I'd rather they give a chance to someone
like Shawna Wilskey, who at least is a proven champion. However, that
will never happen, because a)she's well past thirty, and b)she doesn't
look like a supermodel. Which really sucks, in my opinion.

Kit: "The one good thing I will say about Danica Patrick is that at
least she can finish IRL races without wrecking." That's true. I've
often thought that if she can get a handle on driving stock cars, she'd
be a very good fit at RCR. Her general strategy of running somewhere
between 6th and 15th every week, not leading much, staying out of
trouble and getting occasional top-fives by attrition, and a decent
points finish in the end, sounds an awful lot like what the RCR cars
were doing in '07 and '08.


  175.   Kit posted:
  12.15.2009 - 11:51 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Spen, that's not her general strategy; that's just the limit of her
ability so far. Yeah, she can keep from wrecking, but she also can't
race competitively, which is the entire point of racing. The reason I
give her shit is because she's just in it for the money, not for the
passion of racing. Otherwise she'd be more focused on actually winning
racing in the IRL rather than trying to see just how much money she can
get. I like drivers who aren't that shallow.

As far as RCR, Harvick and Mears may be underachievers, but they can run
circles around Patrick.


  176.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.16.2009 - 5:02 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Bronco will KEEP bring them up DSFF, you aren't done with those stats
yet. ;)"

I kinda hope he does. I've been having fun looking up the Loop Data at
various races and marveling at how poorly the driver rating reflects the
driver's actual performance. It's kinda like watching a train wreck,
only nobody gets killed or hurt which is great. They are morbidly
fascinating.


  177.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.16.2009 - 6:11 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Here is another one of my favorites: 2006 Las Vegas and Tony Stewart. In
this 270 lap race, Tony started 2nd, led 54 laps, averaged a 4th place
running position, and spent 263 laps in the Top 15 (97.4%). He also ran
the fastest lap 36 times, which was the most in that race.

So where did he finish? 21st. He got mad at Kyle Busch late in the race
cause he wouldn't roll over and let him pass and actually RACED Tony
(don't feel bad for Kyle though, he has done the same thing numerous
times), and while trying to wreck Kyle, he crashed his own car into the
wall, while doing nothing to Kyle (just like Kansas '08 and Vickers).
Kyle finished 3rd and Tony averged running 4th during that race, so I
will assume he would have finished 4th at the very least, maybe higher
if he doesn't lose his head and waits to make a clean pass. But I'll be
generous and say Tony only single handedly cost himself 17 positions.

So what was the total cost of this? He cost himself 60 points. At
Richmond in Sept, he missed the cha$e cutoff by 16 points. Considering
he won 5 races that year, 3 in the cha$e, it is reasonable to assume he
could have made a run at the championship given his quality of equipment
and outerworldly talent and kept JJ from finally breaking through for
his first title, which he hasn't lost yet in the last 4 years (and
counting).

So what was Tony's driver rating in that race? 116.4, the 4th best. I
guess the driver ratings don't factor in things like "championship
killing driver mistakes that swung momentum to another team with a less
talented (but infinitely smarter) driver to start a historic streak that
still hasn't ended". 116.4! What a crock of shit.


  178.   Talon64 posted:
  12.16.2009 - 6:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

See, that's actually a good example of driver rating reflecting how well
someone ran during the race versus where they actually finished.

But something like "championship killing driver mistakes that swung
momentum to another team with a less talented (but infinitely smarter)
driver to start a historic streak that still hasn't ended" stands on
it's own well enough and doesn't need to be reflected in driver rating. lol


  179.   dUDE gUY posted:
  12.16.2009 - 6:36 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Well, through all of Bronco's incoherent rambling, he is right about one
thing: Junior finished the season higher up in Loop Data stats for 2009
than he did in the points standings. The bad news for Bronco is that it
isn't by much. He had the 18th best rating this season, as opposed to
finishing 25th in the points standings. But i noticed that both Harvick
and Ambrose had lower ratings than Dale. Not by much mind you, but still
lower. That is just pure bullshit, because both Harvick and Ambrose both
had more top 5's, more top 10's and finished higher in points than
Junior did. Here are the stats for comparison:

Dale Earnhardt, Jr.: 2 top 5's, 5 top 10's, finished 25th in the
standings with 3422 points and an average finish of 23.2, had a Driver
Rating of 76.3, which was 18th best in 2009.

Kevin Harvick: 5 top 5's, 9 top 10's, finished 19th in the standings
with 3796 points and an average finish of 19.9, had a driver rating of
75.7, which was 20th best for 2009.

Marcos Ambrose: 4 top 5's, 7 top 10's, finished 18th in the standings
with3830 points and an average finish of 19.6, had a driver rating of
70.9, which was 21st best in 2009.

Again, Marcos and Kevin both had slightly worse driver ratings, but
Junior had over 350 points less and an average finish over 3 places
worse than Harvick or Ambrose. What I can gather from all of this ii
that Loop Data doesn't factor in the important stuff (ie, where they
actually finished), and Junior had an undeniably terrible season.


  180.   Anonymous posted:
  12.16.2009 - 6:38 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Nascar needs to change their Nationwide and Truck series schedule.

The Milwaukee Mile will not have any racing from any National series in
2010. The proof is http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/79433807.html .


  181.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.16.2009 - 7:13 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Thanks Dude Guy. Again, it doesn't factor in that Dale Mears drove for
the HMS powerhouse that won half the races, put 5 of its 6 full time
teams in the cha$e, and have no peer. Meanwhile Harvick drove for a
badly struggling RCR (though he made things worse with his public
contract dispute) and Marcos drover for Robert Kauffman Rac.. oops, i
mean Michael Waltrip Racing which, although they showed a lot of
improvement, and still WAY below HMS. He shouldn't even be getting
mentioned in the same sentence as Harvick and rookie Ambrose.


  182.   Kit posted:
  12.16.2009 - 9:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

What's funny is that Harvick has his own problems in his head and his
priorities are totally off yet he still did better than Dale Mears in
inferior equipment.


  183.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.16.2009 - 10:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"What I can gather from all of this ii that Loop Data doesn't factor in
the important stuff (ie, where they actually finished)"

Bingo. It is just convoluted nonsense (though sort of entertaining in a
"What The Hell?" kind of way) that is not an accurate reflection of
driver performance. It is so flawed that is is mildly hilarious.

"What's funny is that Harvick has his own problems in his head and his
priorities are totally off yet he still did better than Dale Mears in
inferior equipment."

Exactly. Like I said, Dale Mears shouldn't even be mentioned in the same
sentence as people like Harvick. He drives for HMS which is in a league
of their own, yet there he is way down the list with the scrubs, even
below some of them.


  184.   Kit posted:
  12.17.2009 - 3:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Well, through all of Bronco's incoherent rambling"

I am actually starting to get bored replying to his messages because all
he does is spout off emotional non-sense. He's the kind of guy that will
argue with you if you tell him the Earth is round.


  185.   Talon64 posted:
  12.17.2009 - 4:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Casey Mears had a better average points finish in his two years with HMS
than Dale Jr. currently has in his first two years.

Mears finished 15th in 2007 and 20th in 2008 for an average of 17.5 and
a difference of only 5 positions between his two seasons.

Dale Jr. finished 12th in 2008 and 25th in 2009 for an average of 18.5
with a difference of 13 positions between seasons.

Dale Jr. has more top fives, top tens and laps led than Mears did, and
Dale Jr. would've finished 7th in the standings in 2008 if there weren't
a Chase which Mears never made in his two years with HMS. But it's still
worth noting.


  186.   Kit posted:
  12.17.2009 - 5:46 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Talon64, the one good thing I will say about Dale Mears in regards to
Casey Mears is that at least Dale had some emotional (or otherwise)
issues that caused him to perform worse than Casey Mears. Casey Mears,
on the other hand, was at his peak.

But there is a possibility that Dale Mears has the yips.


  187.   Talon64 posted:
  12.18.2009 - 6:53 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

CJM Racing is shutting down operations.

http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/nns-cjm-racing-to-suspend-operations/

Another NNS team bites the dust, it's bullshit. >:-(

They haven't given a reason yet, but I wonder if JGR shut down it's
technical alliance with CJM in favour of RWI?


  188.   Dodge posted:
  12.18.2009 - 10:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"CJM Racing is shutting down operations."

I don't feel bad for these idiot owners. They had a driver with a
sponsor in Lagasse Jr. but because he wasn't where they thought he
should be, they fire him. Just one group of owners where they don't
belong in this sport.


  189.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  12.18.2009 - 11:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Speaking of Lagasse, I SO wish that Jr could have signed him to run his
other car instead of Danica! That guy has the potential to be a
competitive Nationwide driver, while Danica is only in it for the money.

I put Scott Lagasse and Stephen Leicht in the same general category.
It's a joke to NASCAR that they are rideless while John Wrecks Weekly
and Danica have rides with competitive teams.


  190.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.19.2009 - 9:49 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"It's a joke to NASCAR that they are rideless while John Wrecks Weekly
and Danica have rides with competitive teams."

Exactly. This isn't a sport anymore, it is a Hollywood reality show
where having somebody with money that likes you is way more important
than actual talent. If your Daddy has the money (John Wrecks Weekly,
Menard, Son of Rusty) or if your willing to whore yourself out to
sponsors despite the fact you have shown nothing (Mikey, Sadler, Danica)
then you are in, no questions asked. The talent pool currently competing
is so watered down right now it is embarrassing. And it is only getting
worse. NASCAR should have curbed spending a long time ago, like back in
the mid 90s when Hendrick and Roush began using expensive engineering
technology to dominate. But they were short sighted as usual. And Bill
France Jr got the initial HOF vote over Pearson. What a crock of
freaking shit!!

BTW, next year the TV telecasts will be nothing but the Danica Show.
Even in races she isn't competing in. Even in the Cup races the
announcers will spend a ton of time analyzing her results and generally
just gushing over her. Ugh.


  191.   Dodge posted:
  12.19.2009 - 11:21 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"BTW, next year the TV telecasts will be nothing but the Danica Show."

That may be good because then Jr. would not always be talked about like
he was this year when HE CHOKED EACH TIME.


  192.   Anonymous posted:
  12.20.2009 - 3:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Steve Wallace should have more top 10's next year since the 11 car will
not be on track in 2010.

I expect Steve to get 11 to 15 top 10's next year and 6th in points for
Nationwide.


  193.   Talon64 posted:
  12.21.2009 - 3:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

With the Milwaukee Mile off the schedule in Nationwide, how do you
replace it?

With another Wisconsin-based track of course. Road America!!!!!

http://www.mikemulhern.net/index.php?q=breakingnow/nascar-execs-add-another-road-course


  194.   Anonymous posted:
  12.21.2009 - 6:03 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Road America is considered one the best road courses in North America. I
went there 2 times for watching Cart Practice back in the 1990's. The
track is not great for see a race in person. It is one of the tracks
that is better seeing on television for that reason.

Road America is great as an experience as a fan in terms of atmosphere.
Back in 1990's for America during Cart Practice, you could go most
places including where race teams are.

Road America is much bigger than Watkins Glen. It is a 4 mile Road
Course with 14 turns. The big question I have is how long how many laps
Nascar would plan running there for Nationwide. Back in the Cart days,
races only went 50 laps because the length of the track and the amount
of laps a whole race run would be under green.

For a Nationwide race for Road America, a Nationwide car would be luck
to go 15 laps under green. Road America is a track that is unlikely to
see a team winning by short pitting.


  195.   Talon64 posted:
  12.21.2009 - 6:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

They'd better watch out for deer; Cristiano da Matta hit a deer during a
Champ Car test at Road America back in 2006 and despite making a full
recovery from his head injuries he still hasn't returned to full time
racing since (he ran the Rolex race at Laguna Seca in 2008).


  196.   Bronco posted:
  12.21.2009 - 7:29 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

It's cool that deer can move across the track. Maybe Brad Krashalotski
can hit a deer with his nationwide car.


  197.   Smokefan05 posted:
  12.21.2009 - 11:48 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Maybe Brad Krashalotski can hit a deer with his nationwide car."

I hope you aren't wishing that, cuz if you are then your a moron.
Hitting a deer isn't fun, i should know. Me and my best friend hit a
deer going 70. It totaled his car, but we were ok. It isn't fun hitting
a deer, it's scary has hell. No matter what type of car your driving
racecar or street car.


  198.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.22.2009 - 1:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Do you gain or lose points in your Driver Rating if you hit a deer?


  199.   Talon64 posted:
  12.22.2009 - 4:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Do you gain or lose points in your Driver Rating if you hit a deer?"

LOL


  200.   Kit posted:
  12.22.2009 - 6:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

If Dale Mears hit the deer while riding around on the high line, Bronco
would blame Rick Hendrick.


  201.   Talon64 posted:
  02.05.2010 - 6:25 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Great news about Scott Lagasse Jr., he'll be driving the #43 Baker Curb
Ford this season.

http://www.nnsracing.com/2010/02/press-release-scott-lagasse-jr-to-drive-no-43-for-baker-curb-racing/


  202.   Daniel posted:
  05.21.2012 - 2:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

In using fastest 43: #0 Jeremy Clements, #22 Parker Kligerman, #58 Chase
Austin, #83 John Borneman III, #89 Morgan Shepherd

Out using fastest 43: #6 Erik Darnell, #15 Michael Annett, #28 Kenny
Wallace, #34 Tony Raines, #61 Kenny Hendrick


  203.   Robert Nelson posted:
  09.10.2012 - 9:29 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Formula 1 points standings for 2009.

1. Kyle Busch 234
2. Carl Edwards 173
3. Brad Keselowski 146
4. Joey Logano 103
5. Kevin Harvick 87
6. Jason Leffler 67
7. Mike Bliss 54
8. Brian Vickers 52
9. David Ragan 48
10. Clint Bowyer 45
11. Matt Kenseth 41
12. Greg Biffle 35
13. Bredna Gaughan 23
14. Justin Allgaier 21
=15. Tony Stewart 18
=15. Jeff Burton 18
=15. Marcos Ambrose 18
=18. Dale Earnhardt. Jr. 16
=18. Ryan Newman 16
=18. Reed Sorenson 16
21. Steve Wallace 12
22. David Reutimann 11
23. Erik Darnell 10
24. Kelly Bires 9
=25. Tony Raines 8
=25. Stephen Leicht 8
=25. Michael Annett 8
=25. Casey Mears 8
=29. Paul Menard 7
=30. Michael McDowell 6
=30. Scott Speed 6
=30. Andrew Ranger 6
=30. Dave Blaney 6
=34. Jason Keller 5
=34. Kasey Kahne 5
=34. Jacques Villeneuve 5
=37. Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 4
=37. Brad Coleman 4
=37. Trevor Bayne 4
=37. Ron Fellows 4
=37. Denny Hamlin 4
=42. Ron Hornaday Jr. 3
=42. Martin Truex Jr. 3
=44. Mark Martin 2
=44. Kenny Wallace 2
=44. Jean Francois Dumoulin 2
=44. Scott Wimmer 2
=48 Scott Lagasse Jr. 1
=48. Burney Lamar 1
=48. David Gilliand 1


  204.   CBASS posted:
  02.02.2013 - 10:07 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Sponsor updates

#72 VSI Racing/ Samuel
#39 Blow Bros.
#10 Borrell Electric Company
#31 Fuel-Doctor
#89 Racing with Jesus
#42 Team 42 Racing/ Smith Iron Works
#37 MC2 Energy Drink
#07 SK Motorsports
#81 Tire Kingdom/ GodSpeaks.com

http://www.thehotlap.com/gallery/2009/264/


  205.   Mannoroth posted:
  05.07.2013 - 11:41 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (3)

Wow, what a race. Kyle Busch won both race and championship and owners
championship. He's got incredible talent.


  206.   Anonymous posted:
  06.15.2013 - 7:07 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

And who has a CUP title now? Keselowski or Cheating Gibbs two little
drama queens?


  207.   ch posted:
  07.18.2013 - 12:09 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

42 Sponsor: Team 42 Racing / Smith Iron Works


  208.   RaceFanX posted:
  02.07.2016 - 7:32 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (1)

This ended up being Jeff Burton's final Busch/Nationwide series start.


  209.   Anonymous posted:
  02.07.2016 - 7:39 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

Cool to see Burton contend and go out with a top-5.


  210.   88&4Fan posted:
  02.07.2016 - 7:49 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

Uhhh you realize he raced in cup for four more years after that?


  211.   Anonymous posted:
  02.07.2016 - 8:04 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

No, really? Duh. Jeff Gordon ran Cup for 15 years after his last Busch
start but it was still cool to see him win it.


  212.   Jared DiCarlo posted:
  11.11.2018 - 10:58 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Final appearance of the #29 Holiday Inn car


  213.   SweetRich posted:
  02.15.2020 - 9:48 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The Commentators For The Race Were Marty Reid, Dale Jarrett And Andy
Petree. The Pit Road Reporters Were Dave Burns, Jamie Little, Shannon
Spake And Vince Welch. Inside Of The Craftsman Tech Garage Was Tim
Brewer. And In The ESPN Pit Studio Were Allen Bestwick, Rusty Wallace,
Brad Daugherty And Ray Evernham.


  214.   Anthony posted:
  06.05.2020 - 6:54 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

This is the last appearance for MSRP Motorsports, one of the most
infamous NASCAR teams ever. They start and parked every single time they
made a race and fittingly their last was just that.


  215.   SweetRich posted:
  07.07.2020 - 4:17 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The final career Nationwide Series race for owner Dusty Whitney, the
owner of Whitney Motorsports.


  216.   SweetRich posted:
  07.09.2020 - 9:04 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The final race for Robert Yates Racing in The Nationwide Series. The
single car team, for 2010, would become a team car in Roush Fenway Racing.


  217.   BroadcastingBrothers posted:
  07.29.2020 - 6:56 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DC | Todd Bodine | 42 | Team 42 Racing/Smith Iron Works | Eddie Smith |
Dodge


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