|| *Comments on the 2011 5-Hour Energy 200:* View the most recent comment <#75> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Lugnut18 posted: 05.14.2011 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, 2 big crashes to go along with Carmichael's crash in the truck race. Alex Kennedy hit the wall and pulls up in front of Kevin Swindell under caution, big hit between them. Coming to the white, Logano got loose, hit the wall, Clint Bowyer rode up Joey's left rear, flipped on his side, got slammed by Wallace and others. Apparently a crewman on Bowyer's team was hit by a flying spring and injured. 2. BLabonte47 posted: 05.14.2011 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alex Kennedy with the dumb move of the year pulling his car across the track under caution and taking out Kevin Swindell. 3. Cooper posted: 05.14.2011 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow, what a cluster of a race. The rain delays really hurt the flow of the race. Carl had this race won, but a late caution set up a GWC. Then with a car stalled, a second GWC set up the big finish. I thought Joey was going to get clear in 3, but Carl pushed up the track and got Joey loose. Just a normal incident. The big wreck occured which incorrectly ended the race. NASCAR still had another GWC to use and the caution came out before Carl hit the start finish line. Therefore, NASCAR should've red flagged the race and correctly had the last GWC. But with darkness looming in about an hour, and all the fans that have been there all day NASCAR just decided to call it. Still wish NASCAR would just follow their rules no matter what, but we know the rule book is in pencil. Footage of big wreck, and the flagman waving the caution before Carl hit the start/finish line (2:29) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB9JBGYjI6g I'm not really enjoying watching the Nationwide series no more. I wish Brad would just stop racing and focus on Sundays. Even if he wins, it feels tainted. I don't even car what happens on Saturdays anymore. Oh and Kevin Lepage's Talladega error is no longer the most epic. That goes to Alex Kennedy. Congrats. 4. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.14.2011 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano gets areo-loose wrecked by Eddie Haskill. ESPN dropped the ball (literally and figuratively) to go to Sportscenter before the status of Bowyer's crewman was known. Brad mentioned a guy with a bloody leg in his interview, but interestingly enough all the drivers involved were okay. Josh Wise made it interesting by staying out with 55 laps to go and hoped for a rain-shorted win, but it wasn't to be. Iowa is on SUNDAY WTF!!!!! Don't hold your breath for a Nationwide only winner, although Kyle is sitting out Iowa. 5. potatosalad48 posted: 05.14.2011 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) big crash at the end with Bowyer nearly flipping. Shoutout to Mike Wallace bringing home a very quiet tenth place finish after a wild day of racing. And how fitting was it to see Josh Wise in the patriotic red, white and blue #7 lead a few laps. 6. cjs3872 posted: 05.14.2011 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes it was one of the zaniest races I've seen in years. The craziness of the Kennedy incents, which got Kevin Swindell (who's father Sammy drove in the Daytona 500 two days before this year's Daytona 500 winner and the man that the younger Swindell replaced, Trevor Bayne, was even born), and somehow didn't involve Aric Almirola, who was trailing swindell with the caution already out. That incident showed why Bayne, even if he's getting better should have been kept out of this race, and should be kept out of speedway races (including the All-Star Race, the Coca-Cola 600 weekend, and all other speedway races until he's perfectly fine, because he probably would have been severely injured if he had been in the car today, because of what I believe to be a head injury from his crash in the Talladega cup race last month, due to that freak accident). Then Josh Wise's crew chief Tony Eury, Jr. nearly stole a win by keeping Wise out on the track when it rained. and then the terrifying finish in which the air from Carl edwards' car caused that violent 8-car crash and nearly sent Clint Bowyer flipping OVER the pit wall, and who knows what would have happened if that had occurred. (As it was, a member of Bowyer's pit crew was injured by flying debris from Bowyer's car.) It's obvious why the pit wall was there, but as I and someone else mentioned on another user comments page, more should be said by the commentators about safety, because with the accidents in this race, it was a miracle that no driver was injured today (5-14-2011). Let's hope for a sanitary race tomorrow, with very few incidents, but knowing the gung-ho drivers of today who think they can't be hurt, the likelyhood of that happening is slim-to-none. Also did you catch the radio comments by Bowyer about Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. driving too hard (as usual) in his opinion early in the race. Not long after that Stenhouse began dropping back, and he was not heard from seriously again, though he did place fourth, due to the late-race accident (and may very well have won if NASCAR had judged that the caution from the huge crash was displayed before the white flag, instead of just barely after). 7. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.14.2011 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two months ago Elliot Sadler was out to lunch just outside the top-10 in points, now he is the points leader. Stenhouse, Sadler, Allgaier, Leffler and Sorenson are all deserving potential Nationwide Series champions... I love this points battle! 8. Anonymous posted: 05.14.2011 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The big wreck at the end really jumbled the finishing order. Logano, Bowyer, and Keselowski were all in the top 5 and Kyle Busch was 5th or 6th before the wreck. It is still cool to see Kenny Wallace in 7th though. He stayed on the lead lap and dodged the final wreck to earn a better finish than he should have had today. 9. nascarfreak99 posted: 05.14.2011 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl never touched him. Just saying. 10. Eric posted: 05.14.2011 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't care what driver Alex Kennedy wrecked, that is one of the biggest boneheaded moves I ever seen under caution ever. I thought a spotter would have told Alex that a car is coming before doing the move he did. Nascar is correct in bringing Alex Kennedy and his spotter into the hauler. I understand Alex trying to get going, but you are not supposed get going after after a wreck when a another car is close to you on the track. 11. Lugnut18 posted: 05.14.2011 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, its not when the flagman waves the yellow, it is when the caution lights come out. Carl was right on the S/F line when the lights came out. He had already taken the white, and the race ended. 12. Schroeder51 posted: 05.14.2011 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alex Kennedy wins the Genius Award for his highly intelligent move. What an ugly race. That last lap crash was TERRIBLE. 13. Cooper posted: 05.14.2011 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lugnut...How the heck does the flag man (using one hand by the way) have a faster reaction time, than a man with a television feed who just has to press a button....Again I don't really care about this issue, but I truly believe the officials just wanted to go home and call it a day. I don't blame them either. Just want things to be done by the book, just in case my favourite driver gets screwed over. Usually NASCAR has a trigger finger when it comes to cautions. 14. 18fan posted: 05.14.2011 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Lepage's move was worse because it was under green in front of a whole pack of cars going much faster than Swindell was going, and Kevin was probably going slower than normal because of the caution, but Kennedy's move is still the second dumbest move I've ever seen. 15. Bronco posted: 05.14.2011 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugly wreck at the end. At first I thought Carl tapped the #20 and put him in the wall, but the replays proved he didn't touch the #20. Carl has three Nationwide wins already this season, one short of last year. His laps led also exceeds what he did last year. The last three years, his first Nationwide win didn't come until Wisconsin weekend in June. As far as Lepage vs. Kennedy goes, there is no debate that Lepage's move was far worse and more dangerous, since he moved up in front of a pack of cars, while Kennedy's move affected just one. 16. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 05.14.2011 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That Logano/Bowyer wreck was the worst I can remember in recent memory at Dover. Kind of reminds me of that big pile up on the first lap of the 1995 Cup race that Kyle Petty won because Logano hit the wall the same way John Andretti did in that race. I really hate it for Mike Bliss, Steve Wallace and Brad Keselowski who were all caught up in that mess and ended up with destroyed race cars. That was just a racing deal of two guys giving it their all to win. You can blame Edwards for getting loose, but he didn't cause that wreck on purpose. How often do we see a driver wash up the track coming out of a turn? It happens almost every single race. 17. riven3d posted: 05.14.2011 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) they were taking the white flag when the accident happened, it was on the front stretch so no excuses it was the end of the race no reason to have another GWC. 18. CBASS posted: 05.14.2011 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And the Golden Kevin Lepage goes to, drum roll please... ... ... ... ... ...ALEX KENNEDY! 19. cjs3872 posted: 05.14.2011 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, it doesn't seem the Carl Edwards is a driver that learns from his mistakes. Twice during the race, when Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. beat him on the initial start, and then when Joey Logano beat him on the last restart before the GWC, Edwards had the lead (or the pole at the start of the race), and thus, lane choice, and went on the inside, where as just about every other driver that had that choice went on the outside, which is the preferred line on starts and restart in the Nationwide car, due to the lack of HP. So what does Edwards do? He chooses the INSIDE on both GWC restarts. On the first, he easily cleared Logano's car, so lane choice wasn't an issue. But on the second GWC restart, Logano figured that all he had to do was keep Edwards from clearing him going into turn one, and with the momentum that the banking on the outside gave him, that he would have a chance (considering that that's how he had gotten the lead earlier). So, on the final restart, Edwards didn't clear Logano and, sure enough Logaon used the run off the banking to pull ahead of Edwards until Logano's car got loose in turn three from the air from Edwards' car (the cars never touched), and set off that huge wreck. If Logano's car hadn't got loose. Edwards' terrible race management where restarts were concerned would have cost him the race. 20. Smokefan05 posted: 05.14.2011 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow there have been some big wreck lately at Dover. 2009 and this year. (along wtih some of the pile ups of the past) As much *some* people would blame Carl for the wreck. Carl didn't do anything wrong. Just hard racing, (even tho Brad had some harsh words. Look at the reply Brad.) I was going to post this on the Grand-Am comments but i'll post it here too: Congrats to Bill Lester on winning a race. First African-American to do so in Grand-Am history. Shame he isn't in NASCAR, would have liked to him take a win in NASCAR. 21. Evan posted: 05.14.2011 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey should not have to tried to race Carl high but it was 1 of those racin' deals. Nationwide races have still been Cup dominated but Carl does not get points for the win anyhow. But it was a nutty race, still shows NASCAR even if you do try to prevent injuries they still happen, I sure hope that pit crew guy is OK. Dumb move by McDonald to pull up on the track and take Swindell out of the race like that. It goes up there with LePage's blunder in 2000. 22. chris posted: 05.14.2011 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the way this busch series should right down to the very end, what a great race 23. Karn Evil 9 posted: 05.14.2011 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This has to be the most bizarre Dover race in recent memory. You had the two rain delays, the Kennedy/Swindell incident, the huge pileup + Bowyer's almost-flip at the end, the injured pit crew member... and probably more things that happened during the race that I can't remember. This happened a day after Ricky Carmichael had a huge crash in the NCWTS race. Strangely enough, two of the most violent crashes at Dover within the last 4 years involved Joey Logano (his flip in the fall Cup race in 2009 and now this...) 24. Karn Evil 9 posted: 05.14.2011 - 11:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also Kyle Busch finished 2nd with the whole front of his car torn up. 25. Anonymous posted: 05.14.2011 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle failed to lead a lap for only the 6th time in his last 74 Nationwide Series starts. 26. joey2448 posted: 05.15.2011 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) the wreck at the end reminded me of the busch series fall race at dover in 2005, where donnie neuenberger went flipping down the backstretch on the second lap of the race...that was a big wreck too. even with all the cup guys being taken out in that crash, a cupper still won... 27. 00andJoe posted: 05.15.2011 - 1:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Perhaps lost in all the other madness that swept the race was that it was a very expensive Lap 1 for Randy MacDonald's team, with one of the team's two cars collecting the other. 28. I Love Japan posted: 05.15.2011 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Carl was classy by not doing a backfip after the race thinking he caused that last lap wreck. I gained some respect for him from that move. 29. BLabonte47 posted: 05.15.2011 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl really couldn't have done a backflip with wrecked racecars and debris all over the front stretch...not all that classy when you think about it. 30. Schroeder51 posted: 05.15.2011 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Wallace gets his first top 10 since he finished 9th at the fall Phoenix race in '08. 31. Anonymous posted: 05.15.2011 - 2:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't understand why there wasn't another grren-white-checker at the end of the race. Can someone help me out? 32. cArmAkAze posted: 05.15.2011 - 3:56 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anytime there is a huge crash and Carl Edwards is in the vicinity, I always blame Carl. It's a pretty safe bet and chances are you are right. 33. 00andJoe posted: 05.15.2011 - 4:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #30 - At the time the caution officially came out, Carl had already taken the white flag. The flagman is not the arbiter of when the caution is official, timing-and-scoring is. 34. awesomegordonfan posted: 05.15.2011 - 7:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @25 Speaking of Neuenberger, he would be too slow... @30 Edwards crossed the finish line before the caution comes out. The rule book states that after the white flag is waved, the next flag ends the race (besides the blue-with-yellow stripes). The caution was out after Edwards crossed the line. Therefore, the race ended. 35. Anonymous posted: 05.15.2011 - 7:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So what does Edwards do? He chooses the INSIDE on both GWC restarts." It's really simple to understand. You weren't driving Edwards' car so you don't know how it was reacting. There's a very good chance that his car just wasn't that good on the outside and he figured he had a better shot just getting a good restart down low. Carl isn't someone who always has to restart down low, so obviously he chose the lane that was the better option for him. How anybody else does is irrelevant when talking about his car. 36. cjs3872 posted: 05.15.2011 - 9:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 35: What you say may be true, but the only reason I question his decision was because he had already been beaten twice using the inside on starts and restarts, including once by the same driver he was racing for the win about 50 laps earlier, plus, with the lack of horsepower of the Nationwide Series cars, if there is a car on the outside, you get next-to no momentum off the corners. If it were the Sprint Cup Series with their increased HP, the inside would, at Dover, almost certainly be the preferred groove on starts and restarts. (Unless Kyle Busch, who flat-foots it on the first turn on starts and restarts was involved.) 37. Cooper posted: 05.15.2011 - 9:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Edwards crossed the finish line before the caution comes out" Debatable. "The rule book states that after the white flag is waved" Debatable. 38. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.15.2011 - 10:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't watch the race but saw the replay of the crash. That is just hard racing for the win. Carl drove in too hard, wobbled up the track, Joey had to go high as well to avoid getting turned by Carl, which got him loose. Plus Carl was taking air off his left spoiler side. That, in and of itself is just hard racing for the win. BUT...... Remember Carl's comments after last year's Gateway race? Brad did basically the same thing to Carl. He drove too hard going for the win, bumped Carl, then Carl went psycho as usual triggering an awful crash and showed no remorse afterwards. Sounds like a double standard to me. He's just another driver who thinks he runs under a different set of rules. It's ok when he does it, but do it to him and you deserve the racing equivalent of the death penalty. 39. Bronco posted: 05.15.2011 - 10:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Remember Carl's comments after last year's Gateway race? Brad did basically the same thing to Carl." No, Brad didn't do the same thing. At Gateway, Brad tried knocking the #60 out of the groove so he could drive by for the win. At Dover, Carl simply forced Joey into a mistake without ever touching him. 40. the MAN posted: 05.15.2011 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) edroids is a no talent fool who only wins when he causes huge pileups that take out half of the field. 41. Willy on Wheels posted: 05.15.2011 - 11:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Logano is horribble! I would of done a better job saving the car! If he had better car control that wreck would have been avoided. 42. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 05.15.2011 - 11:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "At Gateway, Brad tried knocking the #60 out of the groove so he could drive by for the win." No, more like "Brad overdrive turn 1 and slid up into Carl". Carl barely got out of shape... he was close enough to wreck the living crap out Brad (among others) half a lap later. If you thought that was Brad TRYING to knock the 60 out of the groove, that is obviously flawed based on what Brad's car was doing in the first place. Of course, judging by how the vast majority of your posts contain a constant obsession for trying to make Brad Keselowski look like Satan himself, even when it's completely off topic, I'm not surprised at all. Of course, this situation at Dover was different from Brad's situation at Gateway, but Carl's reaction to the whole ordeal further cemented the idea that Carl thinks he should get raced better than he actually races others. 43. cjs3872 posted: 05.15.2011 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't like to sound unfair, but does it seem that anyone watches the same events that I watch? Edwards didn't drive too hard entering turn three at the end of the 5/14 NW race at Dover, nor did his and Logano's cars touch, because they didn't, but the air from his car caused Logano to lose control over his car, and at that point of the race, Logano wasn't about to back off, and he shouldn't have, meaning that, in that set of circumstances, Logano was almost certainly going to hit the wall hard in that spot. But it was the severity of that incident that should cause concerns since it was fortunate that no drivers were injured, of more significantly, that Bowyer's car didn't go OVER the pit wall, because if that had happened, who knows of the catastrophic nature of what might have ensued. (And I hate to beat a dead horse on that, but I think it's important to state that because a number of crewmen almost certainly would have beed killed if that had happened.) 44. Cooper posted: 05.15.2011 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait what? Carl didn't do anything wrong. He drove hard, got loose, which made Joey get loose. This happens every lap of every race. Drivers just usually give the position away to avoid spinning. But coming to the white flag, no one is going to back off especially when the driver is a Cup driver, racing for the win. I'm not sure why we're talking about Gateway, but what Brad did was fine as well. Rubbin's racin. The only thing dirty about that race is Carl dumping the #22. 45. cjs3872 posted: 05.15.2011 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed, the dirtiest and most dangerous thing you can do on an oval track is hit driver's right-rear with your left-front, which is much worse if you do it in front of the entire field as Carl did at the end of that race in St. Louis, but what he did was good, hard racing that, unfortuantely, didn't work out right, and that just happens sometimes. I didn't mention it, but the incident that ended this race was somewhat simialr to the incident late in the 1997 Daytona 500 in which the air from Jeff Gordon's car caused Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s car to hit the wall, starting a melee that involved the third (Earnhardt), fourth (Dale Jarrett), and fifth-place (Ernie Irvan) cars. Hard racing that just didn't work out. 46. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.15.2011 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm just pointing out the double standard. What Carl did in this race is truly good hard racin'. But when the same thing happened to him, he hooked Kes and said he was not going to put up with being raced like that. But then he does the same thing. Hypocrite. "At Gateway, Brad tried knocking the #60 out of the groove so he could drive by for the win." Wrong. Brad locked up his brakes by driving too hard, made contact with Carl and was just as much out of shape in Turn 1 as Carl was. He got beside him in Turn 2 and down the backstretch, passed him fair and square in 3 and 4, then Carl had a fit of Roid Rage and pulled the dirtiest move in racing. Yes, the same move my favorite racer pulled at Richmond in '86. It was dirty and wrong then, it is dirty and wrong now. "Carl simply forced Joey into a mistake without ever touching him." He didn't touch him because Logano moved up the track because he realized Carl was bad loose under him, and got himself out of shape. Otherwise they would have touched. Again, THAT MOVE AT DOVER BY CARL WAS NOT DIRTY. But he is a hypocrite. 47. Talon64 posted: 05.16.2011 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You have to admit, Carl doesn't really deserve the benefit of the doubt in any incident he's involved in. When it first happened I figured, "there goes Crazy Carl again, trying to viciously slaughter not only the entire field but all the crew members with his rampaging deathmobile of genocidal destruction." Then I saw the replays and knew it was just a racing deal. But Carl's definitely a hypocrite for figuring it was no big deal for him to do it, but do it to him and he'll try and put you in a casket and then probably mow through the funeral with his Fastenal murder machine. /humorous hyperbole Carl Edwards gets his 32nd career Nationwide win, moving him alone into 4th all time on the wins list and 5 back of Kevin Harvick for 3rd. It's also his 2nd win at Dover. Kyle Busch gets his 7th top 2 finish of the season. Now he's getting close to 100 NASCAR wins, after getting #96 in the Truck race. Like most, I'm not looking forward to ESPN completely blowing in out of proportion so I hope he gets it during TNT's stretch of Cup races. Reed Sorenson gets his best finish of the season in 3rd, his 3rd top 5 of the season. It's his 6th top 5 and 9th top 10 in 10 Dover races (7.2 avg fin). Ricky Stenhouse Jr. equals his top 5's and top 10's from all of 2010 with his 3rd and series-leading 8th respectively. He also made his 50th career Nationwide start (7 top 5's, 18 top 10's). David Reutimann gets his 18th career top 5 in 124 Nationwide starts. This is Elliott Sadler's first stand-alone top 10 of the season, but it's enough for him to take over the points lead. After only 3 top 10's from 2007-2010 (106 starts), Kenny Wallace has 3 in 11 races this season. James Buescher gets his 3rd career top 10 in 27 Nationwide starts, and his first in 4 starts this season (16.5 avg fin). Aric Almirola made his 50th career Nationwide start, picking up his 5th top 10 of the season and the 15th of his career. Owner Johnny Davis picked up just his 4th top 10 in 398 career starts, but his first since just last season at Gateway with Jeremy Clements. Ryan Truex should've had his first career top 5 finish, but fuel issues stopped him on track and he ended up 2 laps down in 18th. He's been running great since coming back from his wrist surgery. 48. Bronco posted: 05.16.2011 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You have to admit, Carl doesn't really deserve the benefit of the doubt in any incident he's involved in. When it first happened I figured, "there goes Crazy Carl again, trying to viciously slaughter not only the entire field but all the crew members with his rampaging deathmobile of genocidal destruction." Then I saw the replays and knew it was just a racing deal. But Carl's definitely a hypocrite for figuring it was no big deal for him to do it, but do it to him and he'll try and put you in a casket and then probably mow through the funeral with his Fastenal murder machine." Clearly you've been watching too many horror movies. Grow up. 49. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.17.2011 - 11:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't Carl knock the piss out of Elliott Sadler to win a Busch race at Richmond once? Again, that is short track racing, but if the roles were reversed, he would try to turn Elliott over or hook him. 50. Anonymous posted: 05.17.2011 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Lucky for Carl, Sadler had enough talent to save it. 51. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 05.17.2011 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl just strikes me as someone who has no problem dishing it out, but when he's on the receiving end he can't take it. 52. cjs3872 posted: 05.17.2011 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Which, RCRandPenskeGuy, is the ultimate sign of being a bully, because the one thing that bullies CAN NOT STAND is people that stand up to them, which is why Dale Earnhardt, Sr. disliked Geoff Bodine so much. Earnhardt was the ultimate bully, but every time Earnhardt would do something to Bodine, Bodine would stand right up to him. Ricky Rudd and Rusty Wallace were the same way, while drivers like Terry Labonte, Darrell Waltrip, and Bill Elliott would not always stand up to Earnhardt. Maybe that's also why Earnhardt didn't do so well until titans like Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, and Richard Petty were well past their prime, bordering on uncompetitiveness, because, if Earnhardt would do something to them, those guys would put him right in his place, Which is something that needs to be taught to some of these punks (Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, Brad Keselowski, Juan Montoya, and Kevin Harvick among others) that think that they can do anything they want to today. 53. Smokefan05 posted: 05.17.2011 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 50 was me, was at school at the time. ^ Earnhardt was a bully? There are worse people in that department than Dale. 54. Talon64 posted: 05.17.2011 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Clearly you've been watching too many horror movies. Grow up." I don't need to watch any horror movies, Carl Edwards in a race car is scary enough as it is. And not scary in a "you don't want to be within a mile of that out of control driver" way like Steve Wallace, more like a "he would kill you in an instant and enjoy every minute of it" kind of way. and cleary i'm joking, don't take it so seriously. 55. cjs3872 posted: 05.17.2011 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smokefan05, in terms of NASCAR drivers, he may have been the biggest bully of all. As the records state, one of the greatest champions in the sport's history. That's indisputable. but he may also have been the biggest bully in the sport's history and the only ones that really did well against him were the few drivers that actually stood up to him. Heck, even Mark Martin created a strategy specifically designed so drivers such as Earnhardt would never wreck him. Why do you think when someone runs him down, that he just moves over? He initially began doing it so drivers such as Earnhardt wouldn't wreck him. 56. cjs3872 posted: 05.17.2011 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, the only driver I think that was about as big a bully as Earnhardt was in my years watching the sport was Jimmy Spencer. But Spencer, unlike Earnhardt, did not run with the leaders very often, especially on non-restrictor plate tracks, though he did run well when he was with Travis Carter in both the early-'90s in car #98, as well as 1999-2000 on occasion. (He did finish second in the controversial 1999 August race at Bristol for Carter, Carter's best finish as a car owner.) 57. Rusty posted: 05.18.2011 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most drivers out there are in the dish it out but can't take it category. Only difference with Carl is he took out the same guy twice, once in horryifing fashion. 58. Anonymous posted: 05.18.2011 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Maybe that's also why Earnhardt didn't do so well until titans like Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, and Richard Petty were well past their prime, bordering on uncompetitiveness, because, if Earnhardt would do something to them, those guys would put him right in his place" Now to put it up front, I wasn't a Dale Earnhardt fan. But, Dale's 2nd full time year in 1980, guess who finished 2nd in points? Cale Yarborough. Bobby Allison also wasn't well past his prime being that he didn't win a championship until 1983. Richard Petty however was starting to slow down, but Richard won the title in 79 and finished 4th when Dale won it in '80. Petty then finished top 5 in points in 82 and 83 but dropped after that. In other words, the stats disagree with your thought of them bordering on uncompetitiveness. They were all still winning. 59. Anonymous posted: 05.18.2011 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) to add onto that, 1980 being Dale's 2nd full time year was also the year of his 1st championship. I mean, that's fairly common knowledge, but I didn't say that in my argument so I thought I should put it out there. 60. cjs3872 posted: 05.18.2011 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #57 and #58, except for that 1980 championship season, which was remarkable, not only considering who he beat, but also that he was running for one of the most incompetent teams in history, Dale really didn't do much until after 1984. In 1984, Richard Petty scored his last victory (last 2, in fact), Bobby Allison wasn't that competitive, winning only three times after his victory in the 1984 World 600, and all three of those occurred at either Daytona or Talladega, proving that he was not that strong at the handling tracks (although handling did come into play at those two tracks through the early part of 1987). Cale only won twice in 1985, and even Darrell Waltrip would have only one more big season left in him (1989, when he won six times). For instance, Earnhardt was not dominiant at Daytona or Talladega until after these superstars retired (or until the carburetor plate was installed in 1988, and even then, he couldn't hold a candle to Allison on those tracks). Six of his seven championships took place after these titans had become just semi-competitve at best (again, with the exception of Waltrip). Prior to 1985, Earnhardt won more than two races in a season just once (his 1980 championship season). Beginning in 1985, he won at least three races every year but one for the next eleven. (Interstingly, after Jeff Gordon's first championship, and with the downfall of his own team, Earnhardt won only three races in a season once in his last five years (1999) and only led the series in victories twice-1987 with 11 wins and 1990 with 9 victories.) It's for those reasons that, despite his seven championships (which came the hard way, unlike Jimmie Johnson's string of titles), I only rank Earnhardt as the fourth-greatest driver in Cup history (behind Petty, Allison, and even Jeff Gordon). Though I do rank him ahead of Yarborough (fifth), Waltrip (sixth), and David Pearson (seventh). And those seven drivers are, to me, the greatest in NASCAR history. 61. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.18.2011 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The difference between Dale's era and the current era is that even as the old guard was becoming less and less of a factor, there was a new batch of talented drivers right there to take over. As Petty, Pearson, Allison, Cale, and Benny were phased out during the 80s, drivers like Rusty, Mark, Bill, Rudd, Davey, Kulwicki, Gant, Bonnett, and Terry were there to pick up the slack. Nowadays drivers are not being developed, and there is not that new crop ready to pick up where others are leaving off. Oddly enough, Dale's weakest years ('81-'85) where he played ride roulette coincided with a huge transitional period for NASCAR and a relatively weak stretch of contenders. As mentioned, he won his 1st title in 1980, he beat out the still potent combo of Junior Johnson and Cale, along with defending champ Petty in his last season as a true contender. Bobby Allison was also very strong with Bud Moore, Benny Parsons was winning quite a bit in MC Anderson's cars, and Buddy Baker and the Gray Ghost were something to be dealt with when he showed up. That championship was no fluke! But the next year Osterlund sold the team out of nowhere, JD Stacy bought it and gutted it. Dale was so disgusted he quit and drove the rest of the year for independent racer Richard Childress who had struggled mightily with the new downsized cars. With Dale they posted decent results. He spent the next two years in Bud Moore's Fords which were fast but totally unreliable. If I remember correctly, in those two years they had 30 mechanical failures. Meanwhile, from '81 to '83 when it came to championship contenders it was Darrell, Bobby, and everyone else. Cale and Benny both went to part time schedules, The King and Petty Enterprises were fading fast, as were the Wood Brothers. Neil was playing ride roulette as well, Pearson was running about 5 races per year, Buddy hooked up with the Woods which produced little. Rusty and Mark were still in ASA, Bill wasn't Awesome quite yet, and Rudd was helping Childress build a respectable contender. When Dale hooked back up with Richard in '84 they still had some building to do even though Ricky finally broke through for them. That year had one of the weakest title fights ever between two guys I respect a lot, Terry and Gant. Not until 1991 would we see a weaker battle for the top of the standings. By the time Dale and Richard were ready to start their dynasty in '86, Bill was undoubtably awesome, Darrell was still in his prime, Rusty was in his first year in good equipment, Terry would soon join Junior Johnson, and within 3 years Mark would rise from obscurity to championship contender, and Rudd would join Hendrick for a brief but successful run. Plus '86 saw Tim Richmond have a brilliant season. So the question is this: What if Dale had been on an elite team from '81 to '85? Six of his 7 championship seasons happened during extremely competitive seasons for NASCAR ('91 is the exception). 62. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.18.2011 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as the "bully" thing, nice guys finish last. Dale was an asshole on the race track, but you have to be one to be ultimately successful in NASCAR. Johnson, Gordon, Stewart, Kurt Busch, Dale, Rusty, Darrell, Petty (yes The King was one, it just didn't get publicized back then), and everyone from the early years. BUT........ There is a difference between being an asshole and a psycho. Go to YouTube and find Dale's post race interview in the 1993 Winston 500. Coming to the checkers, he spun Rusty while battling for position sending him into a horrifying set of flips. Dale was extremely shaken up for having caused that. Also, see if you can find his interview after his IROC win at Daytona where he turned Al Unser on the last lap (can't remember the year). Same thing. Then see Carl's complete lack of remorse, and even the sense of pride in his voice after he sent Brad on two horrific wrecks. Brad's offenses against Carl? Holding his line as Carl blocked him at Dega, spinning him out at Memphis then apologizing for it, holding his line at Atlanta while Carl moved down 3 lanes to black, and locking up his front tires racing Carl at Gateway making routine contact. His punishment? A roof first flip into Atlanta's wall and a head on trip into Gateway's wall with the entire field right behind him. Carl is psychotic and unreasonable. 63. cjs3872 posted: 05.18.2011 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, agreed, but not all great drivers are known for bullying tactics on the track. Terry Labonte was one of the cleanest drivers in history, and he won two championships that way (and amazingly, two All-Star Races), same with his brother Bobby. Mark Martin has won nearly as many Cup series races (40 to date) as the Labonte brothers have combined, and he's one of the cleanest drivers in history. And Johnson isn't known for ruffling a lot of feathers, either. But you're right about the incident at the end of the 1993 Winston 500 at Talladega. Earnhardt never looked so scared in his life after that incident occurred. As for the incident at the end of the 1995 IROC race at Daytona, where Earhnardt turned Al Unser, Jr. That was caused by Unser blocking, which is understandable under those circumstances. And two years earlier, there was another incident between those two at the Daytona 500, which was caused by Unser chopping Earnhardt, because he didn't know he wasn't clear. (That was the incident after which Kyle Petty and Bobby Hillin got into a scrape. Ironically, Unser's father drover for Hillin's father for three years in the early-'80s before joining Roger Penske.) You're right about Carl Edwards, but he's hardly the only offender among today's drivers in that regard. There's Kevin Harvick, Keselowski, the Busch brothers, Juan Montoya, among others. That's why I mentioned in an earlier post that these young punks need to be taught that they can't do anything they want, anytime they want. You also commented about the fact that some of Dale's weakest years conicided with a transition. In fact, Earnhardt won only 11 races in his first six years, and five of them came in his championship season in 1980. And he won only eight times in his final five seasons, although who knows what 2001 would have brought if he hadn't been killed at Daytona. But you're dead wrong about the 1984 and 1991 seasons being weak. In fact, the exact opposite is true. In 1984, the most dominant drivers also ran into the most trouble, and in fact, Earnhardt went into the second Talladega race leading the points, despite having not won a race, a fact he changed that day. 1984 saw Petty's final two wins, as well as the final win for Benny Parsons, Allison win more than one race in a season for the final time in his career, Cale Yarborough still formidable every time he raced (for the last time in his career, as his downward spiral also began in 1985) and younger stars like Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte, Bill Elliott, as well as Harry Gant finally live up to their potential. As for 1991, the reason that Earnhardt's stats were relatively weak for a season champion was the incredible competitve balance that year, as no driver won more than five times, the lowest victory total for the season leader since the first couple of years of the series. (The same was true in 1992, which may have been the weakest championship battle in modern history, not including runaways.) 64. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 05.18.2011 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing that bugs me is, Carl claimed he and Brad were cool after Atlanta, and it certainly seemed that way during the next couple of months. And then at Gateway, as we all know... Carl wrecked Brad in front of the entire field coming to the checkered flag in response to a simple bump. Of course, like you said, it could have been Carl just trying to play it cool while still being pissed off inside, which really disturbs me. 65. Watto posted: 05.19.2011 - 2:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting posts cjs3872, DSFF, etc. I personally don't think Keselowski is much of a bully, but he did have a rough stretch towards the end of 2009. I think he's gotten himself back in check for the most part. It's impressive how Jimmie Johnson has accomplished 5 in a row without hurting many feelings, he's a very clean driver. 66. Talon64 posted: 05.19.2011 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski's problem was just that he was trying to find the line between aggressive and over-aggressive early on in NNS. A line he actually found pretty quickly since he hasn't really caused any significant issues in the past year, except for Infineon. That's something Carl's failed to find in 9 years in NASCAR. 67. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.19.2011 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JJ has had his moments, but he is good at smoothing them over quickly. He won a race at Martinsville not long ago by knocking the shit out of Denny Hamlin. That is short track racing, but it is something Mark Martin or Jeff Burton would have never done (combined Cup championship total: zero). But overall he has been mostly clean about it. cjs, I see what you are talking about in '84 and '91. Those are good points. They were definitely years with many memorable moments. The point I was trying to make is this: When I think of a "good points battle", I think of two or three drivers trading wins and forcing their competition to step up and win many races themselves. The two that come to mind immediately are 1997 with Gordon, DJ, and Mark winning well over half the races and pushing each other to incredible heights. The other is 2008 with JJ and Carl winning 3 times each in the 10 race cha$e. Neither could coast because of the other. For 1991, the championship "battle" between Earnhardt and Rudd saw each seemingly TRYING to give it away. Neither was particularly strong in the second half, and with nobody able to string together a good enough stretch to truly put pressure on them, it was up to them and their mediocre performances. They just had the fortune of both jumping out to a huge lead early with amazingly consistent performances. Dale grabbed two early short track wins, then one win in the summer, and one last win at Wilkesboro towards the end of the year to basically ice the title. Ricky won the March Darlington race and that was it. Perhaps the most telling story of that championship battle is the Fall Charlotte race. Dale blew an engine, but actually gained points because Ricky had crashed out a little earlier. But it was a memorable year. Davey Allison showed that year that he was for real and was gonna have to be dealt with for years to come if fate hadn't stepped in the way. Handsome Harry showed age is just a number. He didn't just win 4 races in a row, he won 4 really tough races in a row. He won the Southern 500 in the stifling Labor Day heat, won a 400 lap Richmond race on Southern Summer night, won 500 grueling miles at Dover in the September heat, then won 500 grueling laps at tiny Martinsville in the September heat WITH A WRECKED RACE CAR! Each time he'd climb out of the car, wave to the crowd, and look like he just had been on a Sunday afternoon drive in his passenger car in the Fall. Bad. Ass. And you definitely have a good perspective on it. Maybe they just looked bad because they had so much competition. That was NASCAR's competitive peak. 68. cjs3872 posted: 05.19.2011 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #67, in 1997, Gordon tried to give the title away, just as he had done the year before (and that he had nearly done two years before), that "points battle" had nothing to do with drivers trading victories, but rather, as was the case in 1992, drivers seemingly wanting to give the title away. But in 1991, as I remember, that was just a case of two veteran drivers doing their best, and Earnhardt just having more strengths (and his team having more experience) than Rudd, who did wilt a little down the stretch, nearly losing second to Allison before snatching it back. And in 2008, Johnson didn't win the title as much as Edwards lost it. Same thing last year. Johnson didn't win the title, but Hamlin and Harvick lost it instead. Actually, in most competitve points races, the titles are actually lost more often than they're won. And by the way, Earnhardt's early-season wins in 1991 were at Richmond (over Rudd in a preview of the championship battle) and Martinsville (his 50th win), his summer win in 1991 was at Talladega (his fourth in that event), and his win in the fall was at North Wilkesboro, denying Harry Gant a fifth straight victory. 69. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 05.19.2011 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad K for sure had a rough span in 2009 towards the end of the season, with causing THREE wrecks in the Memphis race that he went on to win, after causing wrecks earlier in the season with Jason Leffler and Scott Lagasse at Richmond and IRP. These are all wrecks that could have been avoided with more patience, but Brad seems to have found that, as post #66 mentioned. Handsome Harry's 1991 season was definitely one of the more memorable ones by an older driver. 70. 00andJoe posted: 09.22.2011 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #82 owner: Pat MacDonald 71. Paul posted: 05.29.2012 - 5:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric McClure and Mike Bliss swapped rides for this race because the #14 car driven by McClure had fallen out of the top 30 in owner's points, thus having to qualify his way into the race. Not wanting their only driver with sponsorship to miss a race, the team put McClure in the #19 car (which was locked into the race) and trusted Bliss to post a solid finish that would put the #14 car into the top 30 in owner's points. The plan worked out as Bliss went on to finish 15th (though he was running 10th prior to getting caught up in that last lap crash), and thus locked the #14 car into the field for the next race. The team must have decided to do the ride-swap early on in the week prior to the entry list coming out as there were only 43 cars that attempted the race, meaning the #14 car was locked in either way. This does, on the other hand, show the team's trust in Mike Bliss to get the job done and/or their lack of trust in Eric McClure to do the same when put in a bind. 72. 10andJoe posted: 08.15.2012 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DNQ: #68-Matt Carter, #74-Mike Harmon, #75-Johnny Chapman (all withdrew to get the #64 in the race). 73. bj posted: 11.14.2012 - 2:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i still remember the morning i was going to watch qualifying for this race only to find that it had been rained out. i also remember Rusty Wallace's stunt of making Matt Carter, Mike Harmon and Johnny Chapman withdraw just so he could get David Reutimann in the race. In my opinion Rusty should have gotten in trouble for that... my thought has always been that if you make the race then good, but if you DNQ well that's just too bad. You shouldn't be able to buy a seat for your driver by bullying drivers you assume will be "start and parkers" out of the race. Carter, Harmon and Chapman could have had wonderful runs that day, but they never got the chance cause Rusty Wallace bullied them out of their spots just so David Reutimann could race...it was that day i lost all respect for Rusty (and for over a year i refused to touch a 5 Hour Energy Drink) 74. Ryan posted: 05.31.2016 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He didn't bully them, any one of them could have said no and not taken the money. I'm assuming Rusty offered a portion of what they'd make during the race or offered to buy them tires or fuel to use in upcoming weeks. 75. Mannoroth posted: 05.30.2019 - 7:49 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) The big crash with 2 laps to go from this race is featured in the Getaway movie with Ethan Hawke and Selena Gomez. The only difference is that Ethan Hawke was driving Carl Edwards' #60 car that unintentionally forced the fictional #65 car (Joey Logano's #20 car) into the wall and another fictional car (#84) hit that car (Clint Bowyer's #33 car). In other words, they only changed the car numbers and censored their sponsors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: