|| *Comments on the 2011 Bucyrus 200 Presented by Menards:* View the most recent comment <#106> | Post a comment <#post> 1. nascarfreak99 posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was a crazy one. If Reed won, Jason [Leffler] should be 4th because he got passed by a bunch of cars but drove back to the line.I still think Ron won this race, but it's NASCAR's call. I totally disagree with the last caution though. Bad break for Justin. I knew he would run out of gas. Jaques had a pretty good comeback. And Mike Wallace had one helluva run, finishing 5th. Good runs for Ranger and Fitzpatrick and especially Timmy Hill. Tough break for McDowell too.He had that race won man. I hope the race tomorrow is just as good. This race is a prime example of why [at least 1] more road course races should be added to the Cup schedule. 2. Darrell posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great racing with only a couple of Cup drivers. Whodathunkit. 3. 00andJoe posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That...was insane. -Best career finish for Jacques Villeneuve (tied), Ricky Carmichael, Timmy Hill (initially credited with 10th), Blake Koch, and Billy Johnson. Was anybody else annoyed by the fact ESPN's sound seemed to be juuuust out of sync with the video (very noticable during interviews)? 4. 00andJoe posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #2 - According to the results, Leffler didn't make it back to start-finish. 5. IglooRacer posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The first 49 laps= good racing The green white checkers= a messy finish I knew reed would win one this year, he's been too good the past two seasons, just didn't think it would come at a road course. Not sure what Ron fellows was thinking when the last caution came out because he just floored it past sorenson and allgaier. Only one driver did double duty, michael McDowell. 6. Jon posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) how the heck do you think RON won the race??? the caution comes out, and the field is frozen. fact. reed was 2nd at this point, fact. ron blew by him when the caution was clearly displayed, FACT! i mean, there's video evidence and 0% chance that reed shouldn't have won the race. 7. Schroeder51 posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't be the only one who found the final 10 laps, starting with Doug Harrington's crash, funny as hell. Seriously. They were driving like utter manaics with all the crashes and green white checkereds. I seriously could not stop laughing. 8. Anonymous posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The finish was a bit on the crazy side but it was still better than seeing a cup series start and park valet win. 9. the MAN posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) that is why we need more road courses! 10. Jeff posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boy, did this one ever leave me frustrated and conflicted. I like Ron Fellows, and yet I didn't feel like he deserved to be flagged the winner. I don't like Reed Sorenson, so I was okay with Ron Fellows getting the win over Reed. I'm a Justin Allgaier fan, so I felt they should have thrown the caution earlier. The #88 was stuck in the sand trap. He wasn't getting out any time soon. I know they needed to get as much racing in as they can - responsibility to the fans and all - but it felt like they just felt the need to add to the drama by running it to the end. Of course, if Allgaier hadn't been in contention, or if fuel weren't a question mark, I probably wouldn't have cared so much. Still kind of wondering what went wrong with Michael McDowell at the end, though. He was so strong, so smooth all day. Then, he got the #31 on his bumper and it's as if he panicked and started overdriving the car. Maybe if he had Villeneuve knocking on the door, I could see that. But to be scared of Justin Allgaier on a road course? 11. 12345Dude posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was probably the craziest, race in nascar history. It was insane! I was going to debate a topic about the nationwide series, after the last race. But my computer wasn't working. I'll wait for next week to do that. We should all talk about this race. Happy to see nascar make the right decision. I would of been really upset if Ron Fellows won. I know a lot of people are going to complain about Jacques's and Max's penalties. But rules are rules. Even if they are stupid, they are rules. That's actually all I have to say. I don't have much to say. Just a great, great race! 12. 18fan posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Leffler was shown getting a push back to the pits. I didn't think the caution on the second green-white-checker was necessary. All the cars were off the track and they could've let Allgaier take the white flag and then throw the caution, but they didn't. Villeneuve's move on the first green-white-checker was absolutely boneheaded. How about Mike Wallace in 5th and Andrew Ranger with another strong run on a road course. I think a Cup team should give Ranger a shot on a road course. 13. bduddy posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who was that Harrington guy, and how did he get a NASCAR license? 14. cjs3872 posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The finish of the race definately was chaotic. First there was the incident between a still-mad Jacques Villeneuve, who had been penalized for changing lanes on a restart (more on that later), Brian Scott, and Max Papis, which may have impacted what happened later. Then, on the second GWC attempt, Michael McDowell lost control and Justin Allgaier passed him. But at the moment that McDowell lost control, it seemed like half of what was left of the field lost control at the same time, leaving me to wonder if Papis's damaged car didn't leave oil or water (from a broken radiator) on the track, with so many cars losing control at the same instant, you would have to think there was some fluid on the track that the officials just didn't clean up. Then there was the final caution, which either should never have been thrown, or should have been thrown the lap that the incident happened. after the caution was displayed, Ron Fellows, for some reason, sped up and passed Reed Sorenson in move similar to some of Bobby Unser's moves in the past passing cars under caution. (Unser passed A.J. Foyt under caution late in the 1975 Indy 500, but gave the spot back to avoid being penalized, then passed 8 cars in the exact same spot under the exact same set of circumstances in 1981.) Fellows' move was a clear violation of not one, but two rules. First, he sped up under caution, then he passed Sorenson. I quite frankly am surprised that Fellows wasn't penalized for his two infractions. Then there's the situation that happened to Villeneuve in the mid-stages of the race when he was penalized for changing lanes on the restart. I think NASCAR should either clarify the rule, or change it. I agree that a driver that makes an extra lane before the S-F line shoiuld be penalized, but what Villenuve did here was to simply drop back behind the leader before the S-F line. I think that NASCAR should make legal for a driver to change his lane if he's either pulling in front of another car, or falling behind him if he's not making an extra lane, or not gaining a position. That cost David Ragan a probable victory in Daytona 500, and it cost Johnny Sauter a one-lap penalty at the end of the Truck Series race at Texas when he won the race, but was penalized one lap for changing lanes on the final restart and placed 22nd. By the way, great runs for Justin Allgaier (but horrid luck), Andrew Ranger, who was himself penalized early in the race for speeding in the pits, but finished sixth, one spot behind Mike Wallace, as well as Michael Annett (seventh), Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. (eighth after his early-race incident with eventual winner Sorenson and extra pit stop late before the third GWC), Ricky Carmichael (ninth), Timmy Hill (11th), and Brian Scott, who may have a third-place finish had the caution for Doug Harrington's spin (Why was he racing the fourth and fifth place cars when he was several laps down?), and of course, McDowell, the race's real hard-luck story. And one other thing. Why was Trevor Bayne trying to save fuel during the FIRST caution when he had just stopped. Had he not been, he might also have been in contention for the win, since the problems he suffered in the race ( a spin out and two subsequent pit stops for overheating, which eventually knocked him out of the race) would never have happened if he had ran to catch the field, which would have resulted in him restarting fifth, instead of about 20th after the first caution period. Just another reason why I believe Trevor needs to stop being conservative on the race track and start driving to his potential, which I believe is great. 15. 12345Dude posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Still kind of wondering what went wrong with Michael McDowell at the end, though. He was so strong, so smooth all day. Then, he got the #31 on his bumper and it's as if he panicked and started overdriving the car. Maybe if he had Villeneuve knocking on the door, I could see that. But to be scared of Justin Allgaier on a road course?" It's because (I think), the pressure got to him. He choked. Just think if Carl Edwards was in the race. Allgaier running out of fuel when he was in the lead. Wouldn't of happen. Ron Fellows was announced the winner, then Reed Sorenson. That never would of happen. Michael McDowell choked, while holding the lead. That never would of happen. If Carl Edwards was in this race, he would of lead by 10 secounds. The race wouldn't of been 1/10th as good if Carl Edwards was in it. 16. Rusty posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First Nationwide race since Nashville in June 2005 without Carl Edwards. Only Cup driver in this race was start and parker Michael McDowell (Who won his 1st career NASCAR pole), he dominated this race but ended up 12th after spinning trying to race Justin Allgaier for the win. McDowell drove really agressive all day and it cost him at the end. Jacques Villeneuve pulled off a really stupid stunt trying to pass Brian Scott through the grass and taking out Scott and Max Papis. 17. cjs3872 posted: 06.25.2011 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, there were about six cars wrecked on each side of the track in an area where there may also have been fluid from the #33 car that started that mess, so a caution was definately needed. If NASCAR can be criticized about how they handled that situation, it would be not throwing the red flag, not in bringing out the caution at that point. And, bduddy, you're right about Doug Harrington. As I mentioned in post #14, why was he racing the fourth and fifth place cars at that moment in the race, not to mention the fact that neither he or the car were capable at that point. Had his car spun out in a different way, he could have knocked out both of those cars. 18. cjs3872 posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude (#15), you may be right about McDowell losing control, but what about the 8 to 12 cars behind him that lost control at about the same moment. That's why I think there may have been fluid on that part of the track. 19. Dodge posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Villeneuve's move on the first green-white-checker was absolutely boneheaded. I put half blame on him but the other half on Brian Scott. He left a little bit available and with it being very late in the race, he went for it. As for Papis crying, he needs to get over it. I guess whining is a trait that anyone who drives for KHI has. Just my opinion. As for Ron Fellows, if I was NASCAR, I would of penalized him more with last car on the lead lap for not obeying the caution flag. 20. Alex posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #13 He's a Grand-Am driver who co-drove a Rick Ware (also his NNS car owner) GT car in the 24 Hours of Daytona this year. 21. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, you could have baked a cake in the time it took NASCAR to throw the caution after Aric Almirola got stuck in the kitty liter. I'm not sure if they even bothered to get his car out until after everyone took the checkered. I don't blame Ron for trying to win the race the way he did. Once he passed Allgaier, he gunned it again to probably try and run Sorenson out of gas. It didn't work, Sorenson had more gas then he thought. Crazy finsh. Man I love these road course races. The Cup race tomorrow won't be as exciting because....guys won't be driving like idiots in the closing laps. lol. 22. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the 3rd ever win for Turner Motorsports, all coming via last lap passes. 23. Cooper posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a Clusterfluck. Essentially everybody was racing back to the yellow on the final GWC. When Almirola went into the kitty litter, everyone knew NASCAR was going to have to throw the caution. But instead of throwing it immediately, NASCAR waited to the last second to throw it and that caused Allgaier to lose the race. If they threw it when it actually happened, Allgaier would've been able to run the final lap and a half under yellow rather then racing under green conditions for a lap and save the fuel he needed. Also on the second GWC, there was cars virtually all over the place and it took NASCAR at least 30 seconds to throw the caution. (Steven Wallace was virtually out of his racecar). There not being decisive on their decisions and it's pissing me off. I'm going to continuously rag on them until they become 90-100% consistent. Also Fellows did not slow down to caution pace when the yellow was out. He should be placed as the last car on the lead lap. When the caution comes out you're supposed to slow down, not speed up. And NASCAR has always been strict on that. So Fellows is lucky to be credited with 2nd as NASCAR didn't enforce that rule today for some god awful reason. They just took the easy way out and put him 2nd. God Bless Jacque Villeneuve. Dude is the most aggresive racecar driver I've ever seen. I still remember his battles with Schumi when I was kid. Villeneuve is in a two race deal with the one of the fastest cars and people expect him to be happy with an 8th place finish? Heck if the pass in the grass worked we'd have something else to talk about. As one other commentor mentioned, I also spent the last 30 minutes laughing at the T.V. screen. Good Times. 24. dUDE gUY posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was pulling for a Canadian to win this race, but I wasn't very impressed by the moves the top two Canucks made. Villeneuve caused a completely unnecessary crash while trying to pass on the grass, taking out Papis and Scott in the process. And Fellows blatantly ignored two rules at the last caution - no passing under caution and keeping a reasonable pace - and I was honeatly surprised he got away with second. I thought for sure Fellows would have been black flagged for that. This is Turner Motorsport's third win, and in all three wins the winner led just one lap. A crazy race with a crazy finish. Loved it. 25. Smokefan05 posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The race itself was good but end it got talent went out the window and crazy happened. JVs move on the first GWC was comletely not needed. And too boot he pulled a David Ragen and switched lanes. Doesn't NASCAR read the rules to you drivers in the drivers meeting? I guess not. Mcdowell had the car to beat but choked it away. The evidence against Ron Fellows is damning, the yellow was out and he blew by Reed like he was tied to a stump. NASCAR made the right call here and on JV. Mike Wallace, Andrew Ranger, Micheal Annett and Ricky Carmichael had good runs. 26. Cooper posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 20. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 06.25.11 - 11:04 pm "Man, you could have baked a cake in the time it took NASCAR to throw the caution after Aric Almirola got stuck in the kitty liter. I'm not sure if they even bothered to get his car out until after everyone took the checkered." Basically NASCAR ignored their own yellow flag rules. They let the drivers race as far as they could, then threw the yellow. It was basically pre-2003 when everyone raced back to the line. They mise well go back to that rule considering all the debacles they've had because of the freezing of the field and such. 27. IglooRacer posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) How could Scott Harrington get a license, but yet tomy drissi, who has won championships, fail to be approved to race at infineon? Could someone please explain that one 28. Cooper posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 26. IglooRacer posted: 06.25.11 - 11:20 pm "How could Scott Harrington get a license, but yet tomy drissi, who has won championships, fail to be approved to race at infineon? Could someone please explain that one" That #41 car was the best looking car out there, I know that for a fact. And his name was Doug not Scott, maybe he used a fake license??? 29. BLabonte47 posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jacques Villeneuve looked just like the normal driver of that #22 pulling off a stupid stunt like that. Must be something about that car to make you a maniac on the track. Jacques is lucky that Kyle Busch or Carl Edwards were not there to put him in his place. 30. petty43 posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) there have been 925 races in NNS prior to this one. the drivers in this field account for 73 of them. PATHETIC!!!!! also this was the first race since mid 2005 without a single bushwhacker in the field. i am not counting michael mcdowell who oddly enough should have gotten his first win in either series here today. god this race was a major clusterf... 31. irony posted: 06.25.2011 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was the last caution really necessary? Road America needs to add a short cut for caution laps. The track design makes it very possible to cut out half the course. 32. Jon posted: 06.26.2011 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i'm pretty sure they waited to call the last caution because the track is so big, there was an outside shot that by the time the pack of cars got by that area of the track, the cars that wrecked could have resumed and moved forward and/or been pulled out of the grass (i don't recall anyone being in the kitty litter at the end? could be wrong). i don't blame them and i think in the spirit of the GWC rule it makes sense, but i HATE the 3 attempts rule, and it's because it cheapens the end of the race a ton. i wish they just did one attempt at it, i hope i'm not the only one who would prefer a one and done GWC rule. 33. 00andJoe posted: 06.26.2011 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I acutally thought NASCAR did the Right Thing with the final caution. By the time the caution would have come out, had it been thrown 'right away', the field was already past where the 88 was stuck in the kitty litter; so they left the green out (on the 4-mile track!) until the leaders were approaching the scene of the accident again, and only THEN put out the caution which, regardless of when it was thrown, was (supposed to be!) the end of the race. This is something, I think, that should be cheered, not questioned. As for the Mad Max and Jacques show, all I have to say is what the HECK was the 22 thinking?! 34. irony posted: 06.26.2011 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But you have one car in the gravel trap with one lap to go. Let them race. Of course I could be misremembering. 35. Smokefan05 posted: 06.26.2011 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This is something, I think, that should be cheered, not questioned." That doesn't matter now does it? People have to complain about something and NASCAR is always wrong in whatever they do whenever they do it. Lose-Lose as always. 36. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.26.2011 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) About Harrington, remember Tim George Jr. was always the weak link on endurance sports car teams for years, similar to what Tracy Krohn is to Jonsson in Le Mans Racing or JC France to Joao Barbosa in Grand Am, and yet he received a full on RCR development deal. So Im not suprised a driver of average ability in sports cars was allowed to race. The Drissi situation is odd though. 37. potatosalad48 posted: 06.26.2011 - 12:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man this race was crazy. Jacques Villeneuve did a great job coming back from his penalty which I personally believe he shouldn't have recieved, only to make a bone-headed move taking out Max Papis and Brian Scott. Even I knew that move wouldn't work when I saw it coming. Then there were the 3 green-white-checkerds, which ultimately cost Justin Allgaier the win. Had NASCAR not thrown the yellow for the last incident, Allgaier likely would've won. Then Ron Fellows blatantly disregarded the rules that noone can pass under yellow or speed up under yellow. I was screaming at my TV the whole time that Reed Sorenson was only following procedure and that Fellows tried to sneak one past NASCAR. NASCAR made the right decision and I'm glad Sorenson won. Also great runs for Mike Wallace, Anderew Ranger, Michael Annett, Ricky Stenhouse after early race contact, Ricky Carmichael, J.R. Fitzpatrick and Timmy Hill. Without a doubt one of the craziest races I've ever personally witnessed. 38. Cooper posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 33. 00andJoe posted: 06.26.11 - 12:10 am "This is something, I think, that should be cheered, not questioned." Either do it all the time or don't do it at all. Don't sit on the fence like they did today. If theirs a caution wave it immediately, if not let them race. But they don't do that. They wait and see and make judgment calls. It'd be much easier for the fans and themselves if they just make their rules clear and concise regarding cautions. How about something called a LOCAL YELLOW? There was no debris, no carnage just a car off the racetrack. Tell me why a local yellow wouldn't work in a situation like that? There's so many things NASCAR can do to improve the racing and they constantly refuse to do so. But even with all their faults, NASCAR is still the best sanctioning body in the racing world so I digress. 39. 18fan posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly, I don't think NASCAR has ever heard of, never mind used, local yellows. 40. irony posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How about something called a LOCAL YELLOW? There was no debris, no carnage just a car off the racetrack. Tell me why a local yellow wouldn't work in a situation like that?" Exactly! Oops I mean how dare you question the great NASCAR sanctioning body! NASCAR is always right in whatever they do whenever they do it. But kudos to NASCAR for racing at Road America even with Milwaukee re-opened. I wish we could have both though. 41. hyperacti posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The sarcasm on this board is disgusting. 42. Zac posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm going to preface the statement I'm about to make with this - I know he's a good driver. And I know he's won an F1 Championship. Okay. That's out of the way. But, having said that, Jacques Villeneuve's driving style combined with his mentality behind the wheel of a stock car put hi at a huge disadvantage to win. Almost every race he's run in NNS the past few years he's burned out his brakes and complained they don't work near the end of the race. Christ, I wonder why. He runs into every corner deeper than he should, and more often than not ends up using another car as a brake, and then keeps going on like he did absolutely nothing wrong. I understand he's not running points; I understand it's one-off chance; I know all he wants to do is win the damn race. I completely get that, but, Jacques, you need to realize that A) you're not going to win over ANY of the drivers' respect by doing that B) you're giving NASCAR owners a reason NOT to hire you, and C) you won't win a race if you can't keep your equipment under you. The guy has the talent as evidenced by his F1 championship. He's just too aggressive for his own good. His on track temerity is unnecessary when it's lap two of the freaking race. If he could ever find a way to pace himself and be thereat the end, then maybe, MAYBE, he'll win one of these races. Anyway, tough break for Michael McDowell who looked like he had the race well in hand until he went and overdrove a few corners in the waning laps of the race. I know what Ron Fellows TRIED to do -- run Allgaier and Sorenson out of gas -- and it almost worked. Unfortunately for Ron, you can't go full throttle under yellow and expect to get award the win. Sorry, bud. And I have a breaking news report for everyone: It's 2am and Doug Harrington JUST spun out AGAIN. 43. hyperacti posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, nobody seems to understand that Nascar made all the correct calls today. Don't bother replying to this telling me otherwise, I am not coming back to this page to read it. 44. Anonymous posted: 06.26.2011 - 2:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) McDowell impressed me today. Another run like this and I might have to stop calling him "Jimmy Means, Jr." 45. irony posted: 06.26.2011 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Our rookies, Hill and Koch, had a nice day. They always seem to be near each other. I wanna give a shout out to Annett and Carmichael who were both in the top 15 all day, and to Jeremy Clements who ran in the top 20 early. By the way a new meaning for my name... 129. hyperacti posted: 03.17.11 - 9:40 pm Kevin Conway is awesome! 41. hyperacti posted: 06.26.11 - 1:56 am The sarcasm on this board is disgusting. 46. potatosalad48 posted: 06.26.2011 - 2:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race also marks the 2nd ever top 5 finish for team owner Johnny Davis and first since the 2002 race at Talladega. 47. Jon posted: 06.26.2011 - 3:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 100% agree they need to implement local cautions at road courses, there's nothing worse than a full course caution at a road course. how long would nascar road races be if they did this and didn't have GWC finishes? probably at least 40 minutes shorter if not a full hour. 48. Anonymous posted: 06.26.2011 - 3:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some of you were discussing whether there was fluid on the track when Michael McDowell and a bunch of others spun, here's what McDowell said on Twitter... @Mc_Driver Michael McDowell "Bummed but not too much. Unbelievable day thankful for the opportunity. I just was the first guy to hit the fluid and slide off." 49. 00andJoe posted: 06.26.2011 - 4:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reason for final caution: #88 stopped turn 5. 50. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.26.2011 - 6:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought that even though he won, Reed acted very immaturely. 51. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.26.2011 - 7:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael McDowell?! Even though he came from Grand-Am to NASCAR, to me, he is a road-racing reject unlike ESPN's false beliefs. 52. cjs3872 posted: 06.26.2011 - 7:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The results would not have changed no matter what in regards to the final caution. Allgaier and Leffler would still have run out of gas, so the results would not have changed in regards to those two. Sorenson and Fellows clearly had enough gas to finish if the race had finished under green. The only question is would Fellows had been able to catch and pass Sorenson had the race finished under green? 53. Scott Bonin posted: 06.26.2011 - 7:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Four Canadian drivers in the top ten. Way to represent! 54. Scott Bonin posted: 06.26.2011 - 7:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember watching Sanoma races from a few years ago with 3 or 4 cars stuck in the sand and they let them finish. I faintly remember one of them being John Andretti in the STP car. I could be mistaken though. 55. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.26.2011 - 7:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Jesus NASCAR, what the hell was going on with this one....LOCAL YELLOWS! 56. Brad posted: 06.26.2011 - 8:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Jacques Villeneuve should be banned from NASCAR for life. 57. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.26.2011 - 10:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) These road course races are lovably insane IMO. Except for the Glen. Seems like the NWide and Cup races there are usually not very good with a few notable exceptions ('06 NWide, '07 Cup). Congrats to Reed. Not a noted road racer, he kept the car in good position all day, did an outstanding job saving fuel (for better or worse, that is a crucial ability for modern NASCAR drivers to have), and stayed cool under those chaotic final laps. I'm glad to see he's been able to reinvent himself in NWide. He looked to be another Casey Atwood after being brought to Cup way too soon, way too young, and for an organization that was struggling like hell at the time. He switched to Evernham/ Gillette/ Yates/ Petty/ Whateverthehellitwascalled just in time for them to self destruct. But he has been given this chance and he is taking advantage of it. I hope a Turner Motorsports car wins the championship. I like Ron a lot, but NASCAR absolutely made the right call. The caution was clearly out, Reed slowed down like he should, and Ron blew by him like a bat out of hell. And then he KEPT flying until he got to the pace car, at least 3/4 of a mile ahead of eveyone else. As much as I like Ron, NASCAR needs to put him at the end of the lead lap for that. Elliott Sadler also needs to be docked positions. He flew past cars going way over a safe caution speed. Heartbreak for Allgaier. I was hoping he would win and put himself back in the championship hunt. But I must say he handled himself extremely well when talking about it afterwards, He didn't stomp off, he gave the interview, and was able to express how disappointed he was without being a jerk or throwing people under the bus, and he credited his crew. I, personally, think he will make an outstanding Cup driver if he gets a shot in good equipment. The most successful current drivers all had to fight and claw for just decent results in Busch/NWide (Gordon in Bill Davis' cars, Smoke part time in JGR's pre-Toyota Busch days, JJ in the start up Herzogs team). None made a huge impact there, but by learning to fight through adversity have struck gold in Cup where, even in elite equipment, you have to fight like hell to get good results. Justin had to struggle in '09 (a start up team and as a driver fighting the Cup guys and their vast experience at racing), in '10 (he got the only NWide regular win that year, his teammate lit NWide on fire, but he also had that Cup experience), and this year (rebuilding a team from the corpse of Braun Racing, winning and running well). Give him the Home Depot car or the #99 car (in the 10% chance Carl moves to JGR) and he will kick ass I think. Glad McDowell didn't win. He seems like a nice guy, but he simply doesn't deserve the title "NASCAR winner". He drove over his head at the end. Maybe he did hit fluid, but none of the other leaders spun out. McDowell just kept pressing after slipping and spun himself out. But he did dominate, and that shows you just how strong that #18 car is. I think that explains a lot about Kyle's "record breaking, historic" run in NWide lately. JGR is on a plane all their own in NWide. When a guy can dominate like that whose claim to fame is being in one of the most vicious NASCAR wrecks ever WHILE RUNNING BY HIMSELF ON THE TRACK IN QUALIFYING, then, later that year, causing a huge pileup at Watkins Glen sending many other drivers into vicious wrecks, that says something. What JV did that wrecked the 11 and 33 was a really dumb move. BUT........... I fell ESPN went over the line in trashing him like they did for that. Yes it was a really stupid move, but they showed a total lack of professionalism in talking about that. They could have got their point across by saying "That wasn't very smart" or "No need to do that" or "you have got to use your head better than that". By saying it was "bone headed" really crosed the journalistic line in my view. Of course when Steve Wallace made a similar bonzai move into the middle of a group of cars wrecking himself and others, then stomping out of his car WHILE THEY WERE STILL UNDER GREEN earning him a trip to the hauler, the TV crew brushed it off. Another Steve/Rusty thing: Did anyone else find it hilarious when they aired Steve's pit stop after his flat tire when his crew made every mistake possible and looked like the famous "monkey with a football"? You could tell Rusty just wanted to EXPLODE watching his crew perform like that.One of the most hilariously awkward TV moments I can remember. Then we got to see that commercial with Steve's pit crew about 50 times with them bragging about the advantage 5 Hour Energy gives them. Guess they forgot to take it before this one! Overall it was great seeing the first true Nationwide race since 2003. This is a fun race to watch except for the seemingly endless amount of time it takes to run a caution lap on this 4 mile course. Like irony said, they need to either add a shortcut (unlikely cause it would reduce their precious "advertised distance" BS, or, after the cars pit, stop them on the course while they clean everything up, then let them go green next time by. As far as that last caution, Cooper said it best: "Either do it all the time or don't do it at all. Don't sit on the fence like they did today. If theirs a caution wave it immediately, if not let them race. But they don't do that. They wait and see and make judgment calls. It'd be much easier for the fans and themselves if they just make their rules clear and concise regarding cautions." I agree. And this can go for all NASCAR rules for that matter. Define a clear rule and stick with it. Smokefan, I know you hate us for this, but we just want it spelled out in front of us and enforced the same every time. That would eliminate a lot of conspiracy theories. The way NASCAR decides to enforce rules when they feel like it leaves us hardly any choice but to feel they have some ulterior motive in what they do. 58. jabber1990 posted: 06.26.2011 - 10:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) is it possible to have a local yellow and freeze the field? I just dont know how thats possible 59. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.26.2011 - 10:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing I meant to mention: this is a huge step in the long term success of the new points rule. Carl and Brad definitely would have shown up for this one if they had a championship to go after, but they didn't, so there was no need for them to do it. We are seeing the Cup guys pull back quite a bit. This has a two fold effect. First we are seeing races like this where no Cup guys show up. Secondly, on the companion weekends, because the NWide regulars are getting more seat time in these cars than Cup guys, it gives them a bit of an advantage to make up for the huge disparity in racing experience the Cup guys have. The result is a race like Michigan, a track Cup goes to twice a year, where Stenhouse was able to challenge Carl for the win. He lost, but is a lot closer. 60. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.26.2011 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of Course local yellows are possible, at the Nurburgring today a car flipped over the barriers and another car crashed hard in the middle of the circuit but they managed to repair the barriers/clean up debris without a full course yellow. I do wonder if NASCAR would be ready for this change though. 61. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.26.2011 - 11:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) When it comes to road racing, NASCAR guys can't hold a candle to everyone else. Sports car and open-wheel drivers have run NASCAR and succeeded, but the closest NASCAR guys have come to succeeding elsewhere is Al Keller with a single USAC pole. 62. 12345Dude posted: 06.26.2011 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ post 18 the guys in the back spinning were racing crazy that's why they spun out. Nascar takes too long on those cautions to make a mistake like that....hopefully. Also Mcdowell spun out at a different place (compared to the other drivers that spun out) I was really happy at the nw race at michigan. When I saw the entry list it said there were 7 cup guys in the race. I said to myself, great. From 06-the beginning of 11 that meant that the top 5 would be all cup guys. A nationwide regular wouldn't lead a lap. Yet Elliott Sadler was 2nd and competed for the lead for a while. And Ricky almost won. The top 5 weren't all cup guys. This still makes no sense to me how this series turned around. I'm being a conspirary theriost but how have these teams magically gotten so much better? They were being dominated in the begining of the season. Is nascar giving these teams tips, helping them out? Something different has to be going on. It just such an improvment. It's night and day. I can still remember when there were 4 cup guys at nashville, 3 less then at that race. And they dominated the race. And I don't think the "one series you get points in" is the reason why. Its helped, but still. What ever the reason is, that race proved to me the nw series is back! I also hope sorenson or sadler win the title. From 98 to 10 the nw champ has been a driver who used the nw series for a platform for cup. From Junior to Green to Harvick to Biffle to Vickers etc. The last nw driver to not use the series to move into cup was Randy Lajoie in 1997. 63. Carl posted: 06.26.2011 - 11:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Golly, I sure was hoping Ol' Billy Johnson would win for those fellas in the 60 car. I bet Billy could be a good one for those Formula One guys since they run road courses. 64. WallaceFan posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The final caution came out..not because Almirola and several other cars were scattered across the track....but because Steve Wallace got out of his car and was walking around. I mean i cant blame him i guess, there were cars destroyed all across the track so I would have thought it was a caution too...but Nascar was none too pleased as they immidiatley called him to the hauler after the race. One of those moments that made me hang my head none the less... 65. RCR293133Fan1 posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jacques Villeneuve is a complete failure of a driver. Early in the race he ran into Steven Wallace blowing his tire. (Wallace was in the top 5 all day up untill that point) Then later he makes one of the dumber moves I've ever seen takign out Scott and Papis. Kevin Harvick tweeted several times that he hoped Papis would "punch Villeneuves dumbass in the mouth" 66. 00andJoe posted: 06.26.2011 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF - Totally agree that Ron should be penalised. He might have missed the intial caution flag when he blew past the 32, but afterwards he knew it was out - and was being told on the radio to race up to the pace car?! That's "tail end of the lead lap" for sure. Don't think ESad should be penalised though. Looked to me like he simply didn't see the courseworker with the yellow flag at first, passed some inexplicably (to him) slowing cars, but when he realised the caution was out he promptly gave the spots back and got back in line where he was supposed to be. Totally agree on the local yellows being needed. They used to use them at Sonomoa, at least - distinctly remember "locals" down in the Carousel. Heck, in Formula One they roll out huge cherry-pickers and packs of course marshals in local yellows even! WallaceFan - that wasn't the last caution, that was the caution before that where Steve was going walkabout. ...and somebody messed up the caution flag recording on the race page. Last caution "-1" lap? Er, no. Last caution was lap 57 to lap 57. 67. Rusty posted: 06.26.2011 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I personally think Green White Checkereds should be abolished at road course races, especially in the Nationwide Series. I've never been a huge fan of the GWC, but this was just a joke. It wasn't a race at the end, it was a total disaster. 68. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.26.2011 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, at least JV wasn't the only former F1 champ to be called a "bonehead" on TV this weekend. 69. irony posted: 06.26.2011 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very bad week for F1 drivers in NASCAR for sure. I can only imagine how Michael Schumacher would race in a stock car as he races fairly dirty in F1 where as JV didn't. I love all 4 road courses that NASCAR races on. I'd put all of them up against any F1 track minus Spa and Suzuka. Although open wheel races at Sonoma aren't that great but they don't use the epic NASCAR turn 11. 70. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.26.2011 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really surprised that Carl decided to sit this race out, but good to see he did because running this race would have made as much sense as Rocky smoking a blunt right before his big match. Hope to see he and Brad continue to sit out non-companion weekends. JV indeed made a bad move towards the end there, but he seemed to be a scrapegoat as well for the ESPN crew at the moment it happened. Doubt they would have said it was a bonehead move if it were one of the more established NASCAR drivers. I knew Reed Sorenson would get a win eventually, I just didn't expect it to come on a road course. He had a dismal Cup career due to the bad equipment he drove for Ganassi and RPM (if you're not driving the #9 or AJ Allmendinger's ride at that team, you're pretty much driving junk). He probably isn't good enough to win a bunch of Cup races, but he could easily improve a la Paul Menard if he had a chance. 71. cjs3872 posted: 06.26.2011 - 11:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason you can't have local yellows in a situation where a car is helplessly stalled goes back to the incident late in 1971 Indianapolis 500 when Bobby Unser and Mike Mosley crashed into three parked cars just before the pit entrance. (Bentley Warren, Steve Krisiloff, and Mark Donohue, whose car was knocked onto its side briefly) That's just something that you just can't risk, the potential of a car crashing into a parked car with the driver still in it. So the caution at the end was definately warranted, it was just brought out late, but it didn't change the outcome of the race. However, Fellows should have been penalized one lap in my opinion for breaking not one, but two rules under that last caution. Speeding up and passing Sorenson are both violations of two of the most basic rules in any form of racing, not slowing down under caution and not holding your position under caution by passing a fully able car. Anyone that's ever watched any automobile race would know those rules. 72. cjs3872 posted: 06.27.2011 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, had NASCAR thrown the final caution right away, even though the racing would have stopped, since it was the first lap of a GWC attempt, the field would have gotten the WHITE flag, not the checkered flag with the yellow. That means that the field would still have had to complete another lap. And Cooper (#23), as far from the finish line as Allgaier was from the finish line when he ran out of fuel (about 3 miles), he would never had made it anyway, even if the last lap and a half were run under caution if the caution was thrown immediately. The best he would have been able to do would have been to make it to within about 1-1.5 miles from the finish line before he would have run out of fuel. 73. Talon64 posted: 06.27.2011 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reed Sorenson picks up his 4th career Nationwide Series win, his first since Gateway in 2007 while still driving for Chip Ganassi Racing in Cup. It's the 2nd win for the #32 Turner car this season, with Mark Martin winning at Las Vegas. It's his 6th consecutive top 10 in the #32 (finished 11th last race at Michigan in the #30). It's Sorenson's first career road course win in NASCAR; he had a 30.1 average finish in 7 starts in Cup, and 29.7 in 4 Nationwide starts prior to this win. The #32 team takes over the lead in the owners standings by 1 point over the #18, with the #60 dropping to 3rd and 11 point back. The #32 leads all teams with 14 top 10's in 16 races. Ron Fellows gets his 7th top 2 finish in 19 career Nationwide starts since 1997, all on road courses. He's now finished 2nd in each of the first two NNS races held at Road America. It's the 2nd top 5 for the #7 JRM car, with the first being Danica Patrick's 4th place finish at Las Vegas. Jacques Villeneuve ties his best career finish in 3rd, his 3rd top 5 in 6 Nationwide starts (all on road courses). Elliott Sadler gets his first career top 5 on a road course in NASCAR; he had 6 top 10's in 24 starts in Cup, best of 6th twice at Infineon in 2002 and 2005, and had no top 10's in 3 previous starts in Nationwide. His 8 top 5's this season leads all series regulars and is 3rd overall behind Kyle and Carl who have 9 each. Mike Wallace gets his first top 5 in Nationwide since a 3rd at Kentucky in 2008; it's only owner Johnny Davis' 2nd career top 5 in 409 career starts, the first way back in 2002 with Tim Fedewa finishing 3rd at Talladega. It's also just Mike Wallace's 22nd career top 5 in 398 Nationwide starts. Andrew Ranger gets his 2nd top 10 in 8 career Nationwide starts, both coming in his last 3 starts (1 each in 2009, 2010, 2011). Michael Annett gets his best finish of the season and just his 2nd top 10, but both coming in the last 3 races, with a 7th. It does equal his top 10's from all of 2010, giving him 8 in 87 career starts. Ricky Stenhouse Jr. gets his series-leading 12th top 10 of the season, his 6th in the last 7 races, and his first top 10 in 3 career road course starts (19.3 avg fin). Ricky Carmichael gets his first career top 10 in Nationwide in 9th, his 5th series start and first of 2010. This was his first NASCAR national touring series start on a road course but he made 2 road course starts in the East Series with a best of 9th at Watkins Glen. JR Fitzpatrick gets his 3rd top 10 in his last 4 road course starts, with the other finish being an 11th (8.75 avg fin). He and Fellows are the only drivers to finish in the top 10 in the first 2 NNS Road America races. Timmy Hill was the highest finishing rookie in the race in 11th, getting his best career finish. His lead in the ROTY points standings is 16 but with 1 fewer start than Koch and with their 17th starts of the season impending. Michael McDowell won his 1st career Nationwide pole and led the most laps in a race for the 1st time in his career. After only leading 8 laps in his first 72 starts, he's led 49 laps in 2 starts this season in the #18 JGR car. Josh Wise gets his best finish of the season in his races in the #39 car; he has a 15.3 avg fin and 2 top 10's in 9 starts in the #7, and a 25.0 avg fin with 3 top 20's and 3 finishes of 26th or worse in 7 starts in the #39. Blake Koch finished a career-best 14th, his first top 15 finish in 17 career starts. 74. Talon64 posted: 06.27.2011 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JRF's top 10 was also the first for Go Canada Racing, who have run 3 races this season with a 19.3 average finish. 75. Rusty posted: 06.27.2011 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Entry List for Daytona: -Dale Earnhardt, Jr. is NOT entered. -KHI has four cars entered. Sadler in the #2, Bowyer is in the #33. Harvick is entered in the #4, and they have the #9 entered with Tony Stewart behind the wheel. -Jamie McMurray is entered in the #1. -Jeffrey Earnhardt is entered in the #41. -Ricky Carmichael back in the #30. -Kevin Conway is back in the #87, Joe Nemechek is driving the #97. 76. cjs3872 posted: 06.27.2011 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Doesn't anyone else think it's ironic that the two victories that the #32 car has scored this year came in such similar ways. First, both were acheived by leading less than one entire lap in the races the cars won. At Las Vegas, Brad Keselowski looked like he had a win on gas mileage, only to be done in by a blown right front tire. As it was, he still finished third, as Mark Martin scored the victory with teammate Justin Allgaier finishing second. Then at Road America, the #32 car, allgaier, and fuel mileage again entered the equation. This time, with the caution out on the final lap, Allgaier was the one that ran out of fuel, and it was Reed Sorenson in the #32 car the was the biggest beneficiary, taking his first win in four years. Ironically, in all three of Turner Motorsports' victories this year, the two I mentioned, as well as Allgaier's win in Chicago, the winner only led the final lap, which, as David Hobbs has pointed out over the years, is the only lap in the race that really counts. 77. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.28.2011 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I knew Reed Sorenson would get a win eventually, I just didn't expect it to come on a road course. He had a dismal Cup career due to the bad equipment he drove for Ganassi and RPM" I agree. Luckily he's getting a chance to reinvent himself in NWide. I think Gibbs should look at him and consider doing the same with Logano (even after his pole and excellent run at Sears Point). Reed just needed more time to develop. So does Joey. cjs I agree. I don't think local yellows would work in NASCAR. Hell, look at Fellows. Full course yellows don't even work for him. 78. Talon64 posted: 06.28.2011 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's amazing how good Turner Motorsports has been between between Nationwide, Trucks and Grand-Am GT. They're 1st (#32), 8th (#31), 10th (#38) and 13th (#30) in the owners standings in Nationwide with 3 wins, 8th (#31), 14th (#4) and 25th (#32, the only weak link in all their teams) in the Trucks owners standings and 3rd in Grand-Am GT with 2 wins. They've got a legitimate chance of winning the championship in all 3 series. James Buescher DNQ'd for a race but he's still got a chance in the Trucks. It makes you wonder how long it'll be before they move up to Cup. Sorenson and Allgaier would both be great drivers to bring up to Cup, an improved Sorenson with previous Cup experience and Allgaier who's got a ton of potential. 79. cjs3872 posted: 06.28.2011 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, what a lot of people forget about Sorenson is that he's got 161 Cup races under his belt, and did his best in the sport's biggest races. His only pole came in the 2007 Brickyard 400 one year and most of his best finishes came in three of the sport's crown jewels, that Brickyard 400, as well as the Coca-Cola 600 and Daytona 500, where he has top 5 finishes in both. (Fourth in the 2007 Coca-Cola 600, which admittedly had an upside-down finishing order due to fuel mileage and two big crashes. That was the race that Casey Mears won, with J.J. Yeley second, 1987 600 winner Kyle Petty third, and Sorenson fourth. He also finished fifith in the 2008 Daytona 500, in which he led five laps. He also finished fifth from the pole in that 2007 Brickyard 400, leading 16 laps along the way, which represents the third-most laps and the most miles he's ever led in a Cup event.) It wouldn't surprise me that, if Turner Motorsports goes Cup racing, that Sorenson would be their first full-time driver, if someone else doesn't snatch him up first. 80. cjs3872 posted: 06.28.2011 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry about some of the grammar mistakes in that last post. 81. cjs3872 posted: 06.28.2011 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, Doug Harrington's sponsor for this race was a fitting one. "New Orleans Voodoo". Which is fitting because the chaotic finish that occurred, which has been mantioned by many, including myself, would not have happened if it weren't for his stupidity. 82. rob posted: 06.29.2011 - 2:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) it should have been mcdowell's race. without harrington's late mistake, the race ended as it should. after the 18 had problems, i was glad that sorenson won. i was afraid the NW champion might take the title without a win , but with sorenson, algaier, and stenhouse all having won, it looks far less that way. if sadler wins, i think it's a lock that the 2011 champ will have at least a single victory. 83. Ivan Balakhonov posted: 06.29.2011 - 2:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @cjs3872 Being a huge fan of Reed I still believe that if Turner goes to Cup Justin Allgaier deserves being there no less than Sorenson... 84. Ivan Balakhonov posted: 06.29.2011 - 2:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Btw, I didn't get why Fellows was not penalized for passing under the yellow. 85. cjs3872 posted: 06.29.2011 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the reason he wasn't penalized is that NASCAR just simply put the field back in the order they belonged in, which was to put Sorenson back ahead of Fellows, as Sorenson was only one that Fellows passed under that last caution that was under power, so they just put the order back where it belonged among those that were able to make it to the checkered flag under their own power. If NASCAR would have penalized Fellows, it would have been for not slowing down, not for passing sorenson under caution. 86. cjs3872 posted: 06.29.2011 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed (#83), but I would put Sorenson slightly ahead of Allgaier based on his experience, but they should go together if Turner Motorsports does go Cup racing. Just don't put Leffler in a Cup car, because we all know what a disaster he was in his last foray into Cup in Joe Gibbs' #11 car. 87. Talon64 posted: 06.29.2011 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) James Buescher should get some consideration too if he can get a couple of Nationwide seasons under his belt before Turner moves up to Cup. Think there's any chance Steve Turner could be interested in acquiring the RBR Cup team? 88. cjs3872 posted: 06.29.2011 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Surely, you jest about Buescher. What has he done in NASCAR? Sure, he did pretty good in other series, but other than nearly winning at Loudon in the Truck Series last year, only to have it stolen by Kyle Busch, whet else has he done? If I remember right, he got fired from a previous ride in the Truck series for crashing too often. 89. Ivan Balakhonov posted: 06.30.2011 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) James Buescher is rocking in trucks this year, but I'm not confident in him yet. What I don't like in him is his mentality - last year there were couple of episodes when he intentionally wrecked his opponents' cars literally for nothing. The most memorable case is his incident with Danica in Fontana fall race. Also I'm worried about possible expanding of Turner Motorsports. I'm afraid the organization may run out of resources spreading its efforts in so many directions. Turner brings 2-3 cars in NCWTS each race, 3-4 cars in NNS, also he participates in Grand-Am. Well, think by yourself :) 90. Talon64 posted: 06.30.2011 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Surely, you jest about Buescher. What has he done in NASCAR? Sure, he did pretty good in other series, but other than nearly winning at Loudon in the Truck Series last year, only to have it stolen by Kyle Busch, whet else has he done? If I remember right, he got fired from a previous ride in the Truck series for crashing too often." That's why it's under the condition he runs a couple of seasons in Nationwide first. But he's had some good runs in the #30 car this year. "Also I'm worried about possible expanding of Turner Motorsports. I'm afraid the organization may run out of resources spreading its efforts in so many directions. Turner brings 2-3 cars in NCWTS each race, 3-4 cars in NNS, also he participates in Grand-Am. Well, think by yourself :) " I'd assume they'd cut down a couple of their teams, maybe as much as 2 teams in each of Trucks and NNS, if they move up to Cup. Especially if they just move up a couple of their Nationwide teams/crews to Cup. 91. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2011 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "By the way, Doug Harrington's sponsor for this race was a fitting one. "New Orleans Voodoo". Which is fitting because the chaotic finish that occurred, which has been mantioned by many, including myself, would not have happened if it weren't for his stupidity." Lol. He was truly a hand grenade out there. "Think there's any chance Steve Turner could be interested in acquiring the RBR Cup team?" It would be a good opportunity for him. Instead of having to build from scratch, he would have crew members and cars to start with, kinda like Tony when he was given half of Haas Racing. And I'm sure Mark will drive for him at first, which would be huge for him. They need a veteran to get it running. As far as drivers from his current stable to go to Cup, I say Allgaier. His NWide career reminds me of the Busch careers of Gordon, Stewart, and JJ. I'm not saying he will have their success just because, but like those three, he has had to struggle in this Series and gained priceless experience about how to fight and claw on the racetrack, and make something of it. In Cup, you will always have to fight and claw, even the top guys. Allgaier knows how to do that. 92. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.01.2011 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think buying the Red Bull team would be a good move for Turner. Justin Allgaier would be good for one of their cars, and if Brian Vickers doesn't stay in the aftermath of all that, then Mark would be a good guy to try and build the team to the next level. To me Allgaier's success so far in this series is very impressive considering he had to beat Cup drivers in Cup teams for his wins (Well, he was driving for a Cup team in one of them, but he had NO Cup experience while the guy who he was battling for the win had 21 starts and 1 win under his belt in Cup at the time). 93. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "cjs I agree. I don't think local yellows would work in NASCAR. Hell, look at Fellows. Full course yellows don't even work for him. " I disagree with cjs' example, being that you can't compare conditions on an oval to those on a road course. There is no reason at all why a local yellow couldn't have been displayed for the #88, letting this race finish under green. As for Ron Fellows, whilst what he did was obviously wrong and in breech of the rules, in every other road racing series in the world, you can maintain speed until you reach the safety car. Passing is of course, not allowed, but drivers will scramble back to the line in an attempt to make a pit stop (most championships don't close pit road when there is a caution) without losing too much time, or alternatively, catch cars that currently in the pits. I'm not saying what he did was right, but I can understand what would have caused him to act in the way that he did. 94. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2011 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MyothercarisanM535i, but you still cant keep a green flag condition in a situation where a safety vehicle has to be dispatched to get a stalled or stopped car to the pit area, because then the safety vehicle is itself in a dangeous predicament. (Even though USAC did exactly this during the Rick Mears' pit fire during the 1981 Indianapolis 500. Had they thrown the caution, as they should have, Danny Ongais' horrific crash would never have happened, because the race would have been under caution at that time.) 95. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.05.2011 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, but with only a handful of laps left in the race, you leave the stranded car where it is until the finish. Again, I'm not going to go against what they do on the ovals, just the road courses. NASCAR's methods are completely unnecessary - this has been proven countless times all over the world, which is what I still can't get my head around. Why on earth can't they just sit down and watch somebody elses road course race and take notes on how it should be done? 96. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2011 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MyothercarisanM535i, have you ever watched the 1971 Indianapolis 500 (either the film or the race broadcast)? If you have, you would have seen the incident in which two cars (Mike Mosley and Bobby Unser) piled into three parked cars (Steve Krisiloff, Mark Donohue, and Bentley Warren) late in that event. Back then, USAC just left cars stalled during the race on the inslde of the track just prior to the pit entrance, never dreaming that they could ever be crashed into. That incident changed the way the officials reacted to stalled cars anywhere on the track. What do you think the reaction would be if, even on a road course, if a car crashed into a stalled car WITH THE DRIVER STILL INSIDE IT? After all, isn't that the reason that racing to the caution flag was finally stopped? And the car in question was definately in a vulnerable position. Add to that you can't run the race under green with any safety vehicles on the track, because they would be in danger. Not just the safety vehicles, but the safety workers from the cars, as well. 97. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.06.2011 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Again, you can't be comparing ovals to road courses, for the simple reason that is: There are no local yellow flags on ovals. It all comes down to to correct usage - and adherence to - flag rules. The only flags NASCAR seem to use are green, yellow, black, white and chequered. What about the others? They exist for a reason. (Although I wouldn't be surprised if large number of NASCAR drivers didn't know what they meant). Anyway, back on track here. The finish to the Nationwide race at Road America. NASCAR dudded it by throwing a yellow flag on the final lap for the car of Aric Almirola, which was stranded in the sand trap at turn 3. Again, a completely unnecessary move that prematurely ends the race, resulting in the lack of a real finish and the added controversy of things like Ron Fellows' actions and Justin Allgaier running out of fuel. You've mentioned racing back to the caution flag - completely irrelevant here. I can understand why it was stopped and I agree with that move. But it plays no part at all in this discussion. As soon as the #88 was turned around - I mean the, the very second it happened - a yellow flag should have been displayed half way down the straight. A green flag would then be shown at the next flag point after the corner. Local caution, problem solved, let's get on with the racing. In case you aren't aware, the rules of a local yellow are exactly the same as the rules of a full course yellow - being that drivers must exercise caution when navigating the track and remain in a single file formation with no overtaking permitted. As well as the flags on display, crew chiefs and spotters should play a part as well, reminding the driver of the hazard at that point in the track. No racing happens there, no danger, no need to end the race early. I haven't seen any footage from the Indy 500 you mentioned (although I don't believe it is relevant here), but I have done something that I can guess you haven't - flag marshal at a race track. I've done flag work on numerous occasions at varying levels of events, from local club sprints to international level touring car races. Part of this involves sitting in on the drivers briefing and talking with the race director. Whenever there is an on track incident, there is a lot of communication that goes on between the flag marshals and race control. Still using the end of this race as an example, if I was at the flag point nearest to that corner: As soon as the #88 spins, we would have been waving a yellow flag, as well as calling it in to race control. You don't wait to be told to throw a yellow, you just do it. Race control would have asked us what the situation was. We would have explained that there was a single car that has spun off the course and that it doesn't look like he will be able to get himself out. It is then up to race control to decide what happens next. Do we throw a full course yellow and drag the car out? If there is enough time left in the race, the call will be made to deploy the safety car and tow trucks. However, in this situation, there was only a lap and a half remaining - clearly not enough time to extract the car. So then then question becomes - is it safe to leave the car where it is? In this situation, the answer would have been yes. There are many factors in this. The biggest ones being, where exactly is the car stranded and what is the chances of it being hit by another car. In this case, the #88 was fairly deep in the sand trap and - most importantly - more towards the exit of the corner. The chances of another car ending up on a collision course - slim to none. He was not directly ahead of the straight, meaning that brake failure from another car wouldn't result in contact and he was far enough off the course that someone understeering off wouldn't go deep enough to hit him either. He got there as a result of contact with another car, and so was in a position that a car can only reach through contact with another. And of course, yellow flag rules prevent contact between cars, meaning that we wouldn't have seen another car end up in the same spot as the #88. Of course, all of this would have been different if he was on the racing line...but he wasn't. If a car is stranded at the apex of a corner, or on the exit, then the safety car would be deployed immediately. On that note, if it is possible for a driver to limp his car to a safer part of the track, then he should make every effort possible to do so. There a certain areas that a car can safely be left, such as off the track on the inside of a corner, or on the opposite side of the racing line on a straightaway (see Steven Wallace at Watkins Glen in 2008 - I congratulate him on making the smart move by putting his car in a safer spot, but unfortunately NASCAR ended the race under caution anyway). Phew. That was a novel and a half. Anyway, the V8 Supercars are coming to the US in 2013. You - and NASCAR - should tune in and see how road course racing is meant to be done. I really hope that they do, because stock cars on a road course is a great thing to watch...but with proper guidance, it could be even better. 98. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 10:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You are right about me not marshalling at a race track. For the courage that it would take to put yourself in that kind of danger, I commend you greatly. About the situation about what happened on the final caution. Allgaier would have run out of fuel regardless, so I don't think that would have mattered. If they had thorwn the caution immediately, which they probably should have done, the rules say that, while all racing would have ceased at that moment, Allgaier would have gotten the WHITE flag with the caution the next time he crossed the start-finish line, meaning that he would still have had to make it another lap, and running out of fuel where he did (only about 1 mile into a 4-mile lap), it's obvious that he would have never made it back anyways. It would, however, have prevented the controversies involving Ron Fellows. But my point was that, even on a long road course, that you can't have a green condition on any part of the track when there are stopped cars, safety vehicles, or safety workers on the track at any point, because not only are they in danger, but what would happen if something else happened, and it was major (like a major crash or fire, even a major pit fire). You would now be down safety workers and vehicles. 99. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.06.2011 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All of the racing that goes on in Australia is fueled by volunteers. All of the flag marshals, safety workers and paddock staff, we donate our own time so that motorsport can go ahead - it's something we're all very passionate about. I've been fairly fortunate so far in that I've never had a major incident happen at my flag point during race conditions. At a sprint day with my car club (a time attack style of event) I had a Porsche 911 GT3 back it into the fence and a tremendous speed. I was the nearest flag point and the only one with a direct line of sight and it was a terrible thing to see. It seemed like it was all in slow motion as my brain struggled to comprehend what was going on. We red flagged the session immediately and thankfully, the driver was able to walk away unharmed, but still, it's a scary thing to witness up close like that. "you can't have a green condition on any part of the track when there are stopped cars, safety vehicles, or safety workers " Local yellows man, local yellows. It goes without saying that you can't have green conditions where there are parked cars, but that's what the yellow flag is for. Reading through my posts again, I don't mean to sound so aggressive with all this. It's just, NASCAR is so incredibly frustrating to me. I wish that they would sit down and discuss their workings with officals from another series so that they could both then learn from each other. NASCAR has so many good things going for it, but to an outsider, it's all ruined by the simple, basic, little things that they get wrong. I can suck it up on the ovals, but the road courses? They could do so much better. NASCAR road racing is bloody fantastic, but they're just that tiny bit away from being even better. Ultimately, I wish that NASCAR and V8 Supercars would sit down and learn from each other - because the two both have areas that could be improved through learning from the other. 100. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also think NASCAR doesn't do local yellows because, if you have that for one area of the track and not another, they'll just spin or crash somewhere else. Remember, there's a reason why many of NASCAR's drivers, even some of their best, don't like racing on the road courses. It's because they're not very good at it. And local yellows at one part of the track, but green on another means that there's a good chance of a wreck (or wrecks) on other parts of the track, and I don't think NASCAR wants to clean up multiple accidents at the same time. 101. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.06.2011 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope that isn't true, because that's really, really dissapointing if it is. Whats the point of holding a race if you're not going to do it properly? 102. 10andJoe posted: 05.25.2012 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #52 sponsor: Boulders/Dean's Satellite 103. chevyfan98 posted: 12.31.2016 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Considering he was a legitimate title contender in the series at the time, I would not have guessed that, barring some crazy circumstances, that this would end up being Reed Sorenson's last win in NASCAR. 104. Sandy posted: 12.01.2018 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As of 2018 This Race Remains Timmy Hill's Best Non Plate Track Finish 105. SweetRich posted: 07.09.2020 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The best finish for Derrike Cope behind the wheel of the #28 Jay Robinson Chevrolet / Dodge for the year. 106. Rich posted: 08.04.2020 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The commentators were Allen Bestwick, Andy Petree and Rusty Wallace. The pit road reporters were Dave Burns, Jamie Little, Shannon Spake and Vince Welch. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: