|| *Comments on the 2011 Federated Auto Parts 300:* View the most recent comment <#116> | Post a comment <#post> 1. petty43 posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) wow that was boring and predictable 2. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm dissapointed in Marc Davis for returning the series just to start and park. If your going to wait that long just to get back in a car and park it, I'm sure there's many rides that he could have had earlier if he just asked for it. Aric drove his best race of the season tonight. He finished 4th at Chicago due to guys running out of gas, finished 5th at New Hampshire due to a big pileup ahead of him in the final laps, but tonight he finally had some quality passes and was a top 5 car all race. Good runs for Hornish Jr. (was hinted many times throughout the broadcast that he'll run full time next year) and Drew Herring. Umm.....that's about it. 3. Cooper posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was Carl Edwards showing off with 5 to go? He took his hands off the steering wheel as if he was showboating. But I have more respect for Carl than that. I'm hoping he was having some sort of steering problem but maybe not. I didn't watch the post race, so I'm asking if he ever gave an explanation for that, or was he in fact showboating. I believe the first and third cautions were fake. 4. beau posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) drew herring's first top 10. 5. Bronco posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Elliott Sadler was a top 5 car all night until he broke a rear gear exiting his pits, it cost him the points lead. By no means is he out of the championship hunt. Carl Edwards wins his 5th race at Nashville in what may be his final start at this track given that he isn't running a full schedule next year. This is his second sweep at the track, the first one was in 2007. Additionally, he has now led more than a 1000 laps in a Nationwide season for the first time. Aric Almirola gets back to back top 5s for the first time in his career, but I'd like to see him get up there and lead more. Drew Herring deserves more races in the #18 or #20. 6. 00andJoe posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) You call it "showboating"; I call it "having fun". 7. cjs3872 posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know what was more predictable. Carl Edwards and Rocky Stenhouse finishing 1-2, or Trevor Bayne not being competitve with them again. The reason I say that is the fact that the you run the cars wide-open and slide them suit both Edwards and Stenhouse to a tee, since both are ex-sprint car drivers who are used to that, while Bayne, to me, is a more technical driver that does much better on tracks where the driver is more important. He'll have a better chance at IRP (unless Roush decides not to run the #16 NNS car there, since Bayne will, more than likely, be in the Brickyard 400 with the Wood Brothers, and Roush may not want to take away from that effort, along with trhe #16 NNS car being sponsorless) and Iowa, as the shorter, flatter tracks play more into Bayne's style. In that respect, Bayne reminds me of a Terry Labonte or a Ricky Rudd, who always excelled at those kinds of tracks, but neither Labonte or Rudd were very productive at tracks where you had to hustle the car around the track. (Labonte only won at Charlotte and rudd had two wins at tracks like that. One was at Atlanta in 1987 and the oter was a fuel mileage race at Michigan in 1993.) Most of Labonte's and Rudd's wins were on flat tracks and road courses, and Bayne seems to be that kind of driver, to me, while Stenhouse and Edwards seem to be weaker on those kinds of tracks, but excel to no end on tracks where you have to hustle the car around the race track. I also think that Bayne may have been a factor at Darlington this year for that reason, if he had not gotten sick. (Remember that Darlington is one of the very few speedways that both Labonte and Rudd won at during their careers.) It's because he likes to hustle a car around the track, as well as Roush's superior equipment, that I believe that Stenhouse will eventually run away with the championship this year. And it's because he likes to hustle the car around the track, as well as there being more tracks like that than there used to be, that I put Stenhouse #1 on my drivers to watch in the future list, while Bayne is well down at #5 or 6, not because he isn't as good as Stenhouse, but because his driving style doesn't suit as many tracks as does Stenhouse's. I think Bayne will have a solid career, providing he can one day find sponsorship, while I think Stenhouse can have a great career. 8. 00andJoe posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) - Best career finishes for Austin Dillon, Drew Herring and Mikey Kile 9. cjs3872 posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And also, a combined attendance of 29,000 for BOTH races this weekend, to me, spell quick doom for racing at Nashville. While I think there may be racing there next year, I doubt there will be racing there past 2012, as the attendance for both race was absolutely appalling. That makes what will be, in my view, a predicted crowd of about 70,000-80,000 at next week's Brickyard 400 look like a half-full house, even though that's only finning a quarter of the seats at that great facility. 10. Cooper posted: 07.23.2011 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "6. 00andJoe posted: 07.23.11 - 11:52 pm" So he didn't have a problem. Forgot to mention Kenny Wallace. Another Top 10. He's currently 7th in the standings and less than 100 points back of the leader with an inferior car. Now that is a story. Absolutely phenomenal. 11. Anonymous85 posted: 07.24.2011 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) ARRRRGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH 12. IglooRacer posted: 07.24.2011 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was that really the attendance? Drew herring drove a great race, was about a 20th place car at the start but kept working on it and ended up wit a top 10 finish. Usually you see inexperienced drivers try to get too much out and wreck it. Hopefully someone backs him for a full season next year, I would root for him. Was hoping a regular would have something for edwards and keselowski this week, sadly the outcome was predictable. How about this title fight? Did not think it would be this unpredictable. 13. V12 Matra posted: 07.24.2011 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Yes cjs, I think a lot of people are going to be amazed when they see the grandstands at IMS next weekend. 14. potatosalad48 posted: 07.24.2011 - 1:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) 4 straight top 10s in a crap car for Kenny Wallace AND he's 7th in points at the same time. Now THAT'S a story. 15. b4il3y posted: 07.24.2011 - 1:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) 13. potatosalad48 posted: 07.24.11 - 1:26 am 4 straight top 10s in a crap car for Kenny Wallace AND he's 7th in points at the same time. Now THAT'S a story. Yes yes yes yes yes. This is the story of the year. 16. b4il3y posted: 07.24.2011 - 1:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) No sarcasm....this really is. 17. 00andJoe posted: 07.24.2011 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to say I'm liking Timmy Hill. Driving for a third-tier team at best but he's stayed out of trouble and only has one DNF all year. That's impressive. 18. RACE34 posted: 07.24.2011 - 2:42 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anybody who says this race was boring why don't you go cry on your bed! I'm getting so sick of hearing boo hoo the race was boring if that's the case don't watch it simple solution! 19. 00andJoe posted: 07.24.2011 - 2:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) When it comes to the sorry attendance, I can't help but wonder if they'd have fuller grandstands (and directly, not just as a percentage of seats) if they still ran at Nashville Speedway USA... 20. 18fan posted: 07.24.2011 - 2:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm actually embarrassed that I watched the second half of this race. It seemed to be a simple race. Keselowski dominated early, Carl passed him, Carl sped on pit road, Brad dominated again, Brad lost power, Dillon took the lead, Carl passed him, Dillon took two tires on a pit stop, Carl drove by him, Carl and Stenhouse drive off and were evenly matched as Carl maintained about an 8 tenth of a second gap. Justin Allgaier took at least two wave arounds in this race and finished fourth. I was very impressed with Drew Herring, he never seemed to be out of control and didn't push it too hard like a lot of young drivers who are in a good car and want to prove themselves do. 21. Darrell posted: 07.24.2011 - 7:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great run for Herring, especially considering Reid was dumping on him early in the telecast for not running like Kyle Busch. Edwards really needs to get out of the Nationwide Series. Unfortunately I don't think his brazen ego can process the fact that he's ruining the series. 22. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2011 - 7:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, IglooRacer. Unfortuately, the attendance for this race was 18,000. Combine that with the 11,000 that showed up for the Truck race, and you get a combined attendance of 29,000 for the weekend. And yes, V12 Matra, te grandstands for the Brickyard 400 are getting emptier each year, and I think the officials at IMS know that there isn't anything that can be done about it. It goes back, not only to the 2008 Brickyard tire fiasco, but also to the grinding of the surface that occurred several years earlier. Remember, the 2004 race was also plagued by tire failures that caused many caution incidents and caution periods. And that, I believe, was the first NASCAR race at Indy after the the track surface was diamond-grinded. 23. Anonymous posted: 07.24.2011 - 8:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Austin Dillon's first laps led in the NNS. 24. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2011 - 8:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I turned the channel while Brad, my favorite driver, was leading. Yeah, that is how bad things are with this Series. Why was Carl here? What does he have to prove? And I will be very disappointed if Brad doesn't cut way back on his NWide schedule after he fulfills his 2 year "I don't know if I'll even have a Cup ride at Penske so I'll agree to full schedules in NWide, and wait, why did I sign at Penske again?" contract now that he is with a Cup team that can win races. Don't go down the bad path "Keseloski" (Rusty's pronounciation, which is exactly how my Dad says it). 25. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2011 - 8:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) First of many, Anonymous, as I think Dillon may very well be a threat to win the title the first full year he runs in the Nationwide Series. Meanwhile, back to a point I made in post #7, and that is that the top finishers for this race, Carl Edwards, Ricky Stenhouse, Dillon, and Justin Allgaier are all drivers that hustle their car around thre track, while the more consistent drivers that are known for bringing their cars home, pretty much struggled, highlighted by Trevor Bayne, the newest version of Terry Labonte, Ricky Rudd, and Benny Parsons. And that's not a criticism of him in any way. That's just his driving style, and why on earth Roush is setting his cars up like Edwards and Stenhouse, is beyond me, becuase he doesn't drive like they do. While they (Edwards and Stenhouse) hustle their cars around the track, he is more of the consitent, run the car straight, kind of driver, and his cars need to set up accordingly. Why do you think that Edwards and Stenhouse, along with guys like Greg Biffle, and even to some extent, Kyle Busch, struggle at some of the flatter tracks. It's because they hustle their cars around the track, and you just can't do that on a flatter track. On a flatter track, you have to be more consistent and more presice in how you drive. That's why Bayne's been more successful on the flatter tracks, and that's why Labonte and Rudd were more succesful on them, also. 26. TaterRacing posted: 07.24.2011 - 11:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Solid run for Scott Wimmer. It's great to finally see him in a somewhat competitive ride this year. I hope Nemechek will put him in the 87 for more races. 27. Eric posted: 07.24.2011 - 11:02 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) DaleSrFanForever, Roger Penske already announced a weeks on week tunnel with Dave Despain that Brad isn't racing full time in the Nationwide series next year. source: http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/speed-quotes-roger-penske-on-wind-tunnel-with-dave-despain/ 28. Eric posted: 07.24.2011 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Darrell, Carl Edwards already said he is not planning to race full time on the Nationwide series next year. Carl said that during an online chat on espn. Source: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/39390 29. IglooRacer posted: 07.24.2011 - 11:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow 4 top tens in a row for Kenny, way to hustle. I think we are gonna see cup drivers cut their schedules back next year, edwards and keslowski couldn't this year because they already had made commitments to sponsors. They know there is less incentive to win now, can't run for a title. Hopefully this series goes back to the way it was in the late 90's or even early 2000's. I can feel it's getting closer. 30. 18fan posted: 07.24.2011 - 11:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Still, even though there were only Cup drivers in this race they led 213 of the 225 laps. The only non-Cup drivers to lead were Dillon and Sadler, but Sadler did not lead under green and Dillon only briefly led under green when Keselowski had an engine problem. 31. Eric posted: 07.24.2011 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nashville Speedway attendance shouldn't be a shock. What needs to be looked at is how many cup tracks are are a state or less away from the track. Kentucky Speedway sold out and Kentucky is a state away from Tennessee. Bristol also in the same state as Kentucky.The catch with Kentucky is the attendance is going to decline a lot next year for the cup series there thanks to the parking,traffic and how Bruton Smith handled that mess including refusing to give money back to the fans. The racing fans that went to Kentucky and wasn't happy might be willing to go to another Nascar track and that might help out one of the two Nationwide tracks in Tennessee out or the Brickyard 400 for that matter. Nashville Speedway is going to be good as gone from the Nationwide schedule because the company that owns it have been closing the race tracks they own in recent years in Memphis, and Gateway.Dover Motorsports inc. has money problems for the last few years at least. I think the most likely race track to get Nashville's truck and at least one of the 2 nationwide dates Nashville has is Rockingham.I'm guessing the other date at the Nationwide series could go to a track that already has a cup date or another road course. The tracks that don't have a cup date or a Nationwide date next year is is Memphis, Lucas Oil Speedway Irwindale Speedway. Memphis got bought and I believe racing still exists on that track as a result. The catch is the attendance declined there after 2006 and the question of that is how much it is caused by having 3 Nascar tracks in one state at the time Memphis had its final Nationwide race in 2009. 32. Daniel posted: 07.24.2011 - 11:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was there a driver change in the #39 during the race? Later on it showed Carter on the ticker, and if the broadcast crew mentioned it, I missed it. 33. 00andJoe posted: 07.24.2011 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) One thing that does amuse me (in the darkly-amused kind of way) is how people jump all over the Cup drivers running the NNS, asking "what do they have to prove?", when it used to be people looked at them and said "wow, they run these races because they love to race and can't sit out a race and watch it, they need to -race-"... Nashville's date going to Rockingham? Hah, we can dream can't we? I don't think Irwindale is going to get a top-level NASCAR race. I have no idea why, but if they haven't gotten one already after all this time... Getting a race back to the Nashville Fairgrounds would be great, but pigs will fly in frozen Hades before that happens. :( Maybe they might consider giving a race to Portland International Raceway? It would give the series four road-course races, which seems to me to be a reasonable number - it both isn't too large a hunk of the schedule and, at the same time, is a large enough number to make a road-course program economically feasible for the teams - and would also give NASCAR a race in the northwest, which they keep saying they want so very badly (since those pigs will be flying before they get an oval built anywhere near Seattle). 34. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2011 - 1:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Roger Penske already announced a weeks on week tunnel with Dave Despain that Brad isn't racing full time in the Nationwide series next year." Thank Goodness. I am willing to give him a pass for the previous two years due to the circumstances under which he entered Penske. But if he were to keep doing full or mostly full NWide schedules, I would be disappointed. Seeing him show up with Carl at Iowa and this race makes them look like high school kids showing up at a 4th grade dodgeball game. The real question for Brad is why did he choose Penske if they couldn't guarantee him a Cup ride? It has worked out thanks to Shell and Pennzoil signing a big deal with all of Penske's business ventures which spilled into his motorsports operations (opening up the Miller car for him) and a well timed Kurt Busch radio tirade (he was circling the drains before that). Now it is time for him to focus solely on Cup. His cars are fast now but they aren't finishing races where they run. "Nashville's date going to Rockingham? Hah, we can dream can't we?" I agree. I would love to see NWide or the Trucks racing at The Rock, but unfortunately there are a number of issues facing it. First off, they need to install SAFER barriers. Secondly, there are definite attendance questions. They can't even get 1,000 people there for ARCA and late model races. It's a shame because that track lends itself to such great racing with its tire grinding surface and unique shape. A better choice would be North Wilkesboro. On the same day of last year's Kansas race, with very little promotion behind it, they got 10,000 people (including myself) there for a day of racing including 4 cylinder street stocks (we call them buzz bombers), a late model Series I have never heard of, and a modified race with 8 modifieds. Not exactly a dream day for race fans, but we went because it was North Wilkesboro and we missed it so much. It would be a great place to race. Like Rockingham, it has built in great racing with a similar tire chewing surface and a really great short track design. It also needs SAFER barriers and needs to be spruced up. But it is still in surprisingly good shape considering it just sat there for 14 years in the Wilkes County Mountains (brutally hot summers, brutally cold winters). But the issue here is red tape. Bruton Smith (aka Satan) wants $12 million for it. Considering it will need at least another $5 million to make it race ready, that is quite an investment for a potential buyer. But if they can get an NWide race and a Truck race, they can make it up within a few years I think. And I'm not just saying that because of my blatent bias towards that race track. "Getting a race back to the Nashville Fairgrounds would be great, but pigs will fly in frozen Hades before that happens. :(" You are right, that is an awesome race track, but it is on its last legs unforunately. By this time next year, it very well may be bulldozed thanks to red tape issues with the city government. That is a damn shame too. 35. 1995z71 posted: 07.24.2011 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kenny Wallace is not in a "crap" car, its a good team, just not a cup-based team like the rest of the top-10 in points. 36. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2011 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, you stated that the fans at Kentucky weren't happy, justifiably, and may wind up going to other venues n the area to watch major NASCAR racing. One problem with that. There may not be any other tracks that run major NASCAR series in that region in the near future. Nashville is as good as gone as early as 2013 for the Truck and Nationwide series, and I think the Brickyard, regrettably, will be the next to go. How can a race, that as recently as 2007, got 270,000 people to attend, see it's attendance decline up to 70-75% over five years (270,000 to 70,000-80,000, the predicted attendance this year) and still hope to survive? Even Michigan is seeing decline in attendance figures. So your point about the problems at Nashville and Kentucky potentially helping IMS, as hopeful to me as that would seem, is actually pointless, because IMS is the next major NASCAR track to go, as I believe the Brickyard 400 next year, the 19th installment, which I predict will also be the final one. I know NASCAR and IMS seemingly have a commitment to each other, especially after bringing the Nationwide and Grand-Am series there for 2012, but I think one will sever ties with the other after the 2012 NASCAR events there, as I predict that attendance will probably drop to 40,000-50,000 for the Brickyard next year. And when that happens, it will be the regrettable end to NASCAR at Indianapolis. Now I know that it has been stated that NASCAR intends to bring the trucks to IMS in 2013, but I don't think IMS will last that long as a NASCAR track. 37. Smokefan05 posted: 07.24.2011 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) ^ No, NASCAR NEEDS to leave IMS. NASCAR doesn't need to be their anymore, 20 years is fine. But leave for crying out loud. Cup boys should go to canada but the government is not having a race there next year because of money. Yeah right, bring the Cup boys there and i bet they will change their minds. 38. 18fan posted: 07.24.2011 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Brickyard 400 will continue because they are about to announce a huge sponsorship deal with Crown Royal. 39. Cooper posted: 07.24.2011 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "35. 1995z71 posted: 07.24.11 - 2:50 pm" Wrong. 100% wrong. Robby Benton Stats... 86 Races, 1 win, 1 Top 5, 10 Top 10's Kenny has 9 of his top 10's, and the only reason Benton won a race was because of Boris Said. The car is awful and Kenny Wallace is awesome. End of story. 40. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2011 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Cjs, I regrettably disagree about IMS. Like Smokefan, I think they need to give up on the Brickyard. But NASCAR is throwing everything they have towards making it work even though the fans, by and large, are ready for it to end. This current regime doesn't give a rat's ass about the fans wishes, then sit back and wonder why attendance and TV ratings are nowhere near what they used to be, making every excuse in the book. But that is a different story. Like 18fan said, Crown Royal is about to announce sponsorship for it (which is appropriate, we need lots of Crown and Coke to get through NASCAR races there). Plus NASCAR murdered yet another great link to its fun past by taking the NWide cars from the awesome Indy Raceway Park and putting them on the boring big track, along with the Grand Am cars for a "Super Weekend" of super boring racing. I'm sure the Trucks will be added soon. The bottom line is NASCAR REALLY REALLY REALLY wants to race at IMS every year and are prepared to do everything to make it happen regardless of the consequences. This looks to me to be Fontana all over again. NASCAR stubbornly tried to make it work there because they REALLY REALLY REALLY wanted to race in "L.A." twice a year (although, from what I hear, that area is geographically and culturally a long ways from L.A.). And, like they are already doing with Indy, they totally shit all over tradition to try to make it work. First, they took one of Rockingham's dates away to make room for its second date in '04, and in the second worst move NASCAR has made, only slightly behind implementing the cha$e, that same year they took away Darlington's traditional 53 year old Labor Day date and gave it to Fontana so it would be a "holiday event". But, as it turns out, it is always over 100 degrees there on Labor Day so that hurt attendance. So they took Atlanta, one of the few remaining fun tracks, out of the cha$e, and pushed Dega back to November to give Cali a better date and a cha$e date. They have just now, this year, given up on racing there twice a year. I'm afraid we are in for some more of that with Indy. You are right, cjs, none of this will work. Attendance will continue to fall off. The thrill is gone for stock cars at Indy. Plus none of their changes will help, especially this NWide thing. "Hey, instead of coming out here to see one boring NASCAR race, you can now see two boring NASCAR races in one weekend!!!!!". The fans will not be impressed. Understandably so. The question is this: How long will NASCAR keep stubbornly shoving IMS down our throats? They did it with Fontana for seven long ass years. And they only cut down one of Fontana's dates because they agreed to build a casino at Kansas. When NASCAR sets their mind on something, they will try to beat us fans into submission instead of listening to our complaints and admit they were wrong (exhibit A: the cha$e). Of course a number of us will find something better to do, and NASCAR will make every excuse in the book to explain the downturn. I hate it. Cjs, I hope you are right and I am wrong. But I am afraid we will be stuck with IMS for a while. 41. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 07.24.2011 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RAB Racing is a decent team. They should have been a TRD powered Toyota team from the start. They got all the crappy Roush-Yates leftovers as a Ford team, and had an even more crap driver in John Wes Townley. Finally, with good power and a respectable driver, the results are coming together. The more Top 10's he picks up, the less surpised I am, and I bet Kenny would say the same thing. 42. 00andJoe posted: 07.24.2011 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF - NASCAR will continue to push for IMS as long as Tony George is still in charge of the track, since the Hulman Georges and Frances are hand-in-glove. 43. dUDE gUY posted: 07.24.2011 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Meh. 44. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2011 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think there several reasons behind NASCAR's decline at IMS, but I disagree that NASCAR shouldn't be there. They should, but there are problems, and I'll mention a few. First, the Brickyard, as well as the other major NASCAR events in the first two-thirds of the season, including all the other crown jewel events, the Daytona 500, Coca-Cola 600, Southern 500, Firecracker 400 (which is a step below crown jewel status, but only one), the spring race at Talladega, and even the night race at Bristol, were all downgraded due to the adoption of the Chase in 2004. Basically, the biggest races of the season are now totally meaningless in terms of the championship, since the points are reset after all the big events are held. Then there was the diamond-grinding of the surface that occurred after the events at IMS in 2003. The first Brickyard 400 held after the track was ground was a total disaster, as the race featured enough crashes and blown tires to tie the track record for most cautions with 14 (the record was initially set in the 1988 Indianapolis 500. At that rate, there would have been about 18 or 19 cautions if it were a 500-mile race.) Then there was the tire debacle of 2008, where the tires lasted only 10 laps before they blew out. The fourth, and possibly the most important reason, was the new car, which may have played a role in the 2008 tire fiasco. See, the upper-midwest is the car capitol of the country, and the people there (and just about everywhere else)just can't identify with the current Cup cars. That may change in a couple of years, but the damage to the sport may take up to 15 years to reverse itself. As for the Nationwide Series moving from IRP to IMS, I think that's a long overdue move. Actually, NASCAR would have made that move about 10-12 years ago, but Tony George, who was then president of IMS, convinced them not to. Now for the point about IMS putting out boring races. That track was originally built as a TEST track for the cars of the era in which the track was built (around 1910). It was NEVER designed as a race track, especially a high-speed race track. Actually, as big as the Indianapolis 500 was, it was not the most popular race, even in it's formative years. The races on the high-banked board tracks, which were the forerunner to the high-banked paved tracks of today, were much more popular than Indy was, especially for the fans, but the depression hit in 1929-'30, and the board tracks went away, making the Indianapolis 500 the only "game in town" in the 1930s where racing was concerned. But IMS is extremely impoortant for NASCAR. If anyone has noticed, in the 17 years of the Brickyard 400, there hasn't been one fluke winner, nor one rookie winner, nor a first-time winner, and that's no surprise. More than any other track on the circuit, IMS demands the best out of every component of a racing team. It demands a great dirver, a great pit crew, a great engine, and lots of racing luck. After all, there are usually more cars that FINISH the Brickyard 400 than there are that START the Indianapolis 500 annually. As Johnny Rutherford, who won the Indianapolis 500 three times (including becoming the first to win it twice from the pole) once said, that if the lady (referring to Indy) likes you, she'll be a great friend, but if she doesn't like you, she'll torment you. 45. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2011 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, DSFF, when the Ontario Motor Speedway (which was a faster duplicate of Indy) opened in 1970, the first major race was a 500-mile USAC IndyCar race. It was held on Labor Day weekend in 1970, and ran head-to-head with the Southern 500 that year. Like NASCAR, it took USAC several years to discover that racing in the early-September heat wasn't a good idea, not moving the race tio March until 1974. That resulted in some surprise winners. The first four runnings of the old California 500 were won by Jim McElreath (1970), Joe Leonard (1971), Roger McCluskey (1972), and Wally Dallenbach (1973). Of those drivers, only Leonard was a big name driver, though McCluskey did win the USAC IndyCar title in 1973. So racing on Labor Day weekend in California didn't start when NASCAR moved the schedule around in 2004, it actually started there way back in 1970 when USAC ran the first California 500 IndyCar race, in which Tony Hulman gave the command to start engines, as he did every year from 1955 until his death in 1977. (Wilbur Shaw was the first man to start a race with that command, back in the 1946 Indianapolis 500, and Hulman didn't start giving that command until after Shaw's death in an airplane crash in 1954.) 46. irony posted: 07.24.2011 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I went to the PASS race at North Wilkes last year (I posted a video on the track's comments page). I was surprised at how good of shape the facility itself was in. Safer barriers + new scoreboard + some paint and it's ready to go. I can understand Nashville's interest fading. I used to go to the BGN races at Hickory, and I've only been to one since it was taken off the schedule. 47. 12345Dude posted: 07.24.2011 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) (I agree with cjs about Indy) I'm shocked that Carl Edwards doesn't get the "Kyle Busch treatment" in nascar with the whole him vs. Brad Keselowski deal (where he tried to KILL HIM at Gateway). Huh I find it weird. Also I have never seen someone have as bad of luck as Brad Keselowski has had in the nationwide series this year. Jeez. Being a Brad Keselowski fan, I'm really happy he isn't having this bad luck, in the Cup series. It would of been a good battle (him vs. Carl Edwards), but of course he got unlucky again. Drew Herring I think has some real talent. He was in the top 5 almost all of the Iowa race. But didn't get the result he deserved. And another great job this week. I'm telling you, Joe Gibbs is leading the way with developmental drivers. Even more than Roush. They have Harring,DiBennedetto,Gresham, and Darren Wallace. I had patience with Brian Scott. But enough is enough. This guy would of never had the spot he is in now, if his family wasn't so extremely rich. Yes I know he won a truck race. But he was in good equipment last year, and has had great equipment this year. And he's doing nothing with it. He gets the Steve Wallace award this week, stupid racing.. Maybe I'm contradicting myself. I know I'm going to get a lot of "I'm related to Payton Manning" "My father is the tooth fairy" comments but my cousins really are the Gronkowski's. Rob Gronkowski TE for the Patriots, Dan Gronkowski TE for the Broncos, and Chris Gronkowski starting FB for the Cowboys. One plays in AA baseball. And another is in colledge with a football scholarship. And I'm not saying this to brag. I can't play sports, and even when they where kids, they lived the lives of rock stars. I don't have a childhood like there's. (but I AM thankful for what I have). I have always been extremely jealous of them. There father also owns G&G Fitness. So now I have huge connections. I really think I have a shot at living off writing. I know a lot of people say that stuff, but my work is amazing. And because of them, I do have major connections (Like Brian Scott). I think Carl Edwards and Brad Keselowski did so good this race, was because they had no cup event to race this weekend. Every weekend I expect they put 99 percent of their energy into the sprint cup event. The nationwide series is just a "fun thing to do". While the nationwide regulars only focus on the nationwide event. This week Brad and Carl didn't have a sprint cup event. So they put all their attention into this race. Also I know Kyle gets a lot of heat for racing in the nationwide and Camping World Truck Series (and rightfully so), but I'm happy he didn't race this week. I also take back my original comment. This series is still dominated by cup guys. Allgaier wouldn't of won, if Carl didn't run out of fuel. And there were no cup guys in the road america event. The only Nationwide regulars I can see winning in non-stand alone events, are Elliott Sadler, Reed Sorenson, or Ricky Stenhouse Junior. And that's a maybe. 48. 18fan posted: 07.24.2011 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although not many more people would've gone to Fontana most likely, when they moved the spring race from May to February that just killed any chances. One they put the race on the weekened of the Academy Awards, which happen to be about an hour away from the track; two, February weather even in that part of California is not great, as evidenced by all the rain effected races there recently. The second date being on Labor Day weekend in Fontana is actually worse than it is in Darlington due to the incredible heat, as August and September are when it gets hottest in Southern California. I went to the races there both years of the October race and this year at the end of March and the weather was perfect for watching a race. Three, as the February race was one week before Las Vegas, a lot of Californians would rather wait a week and drive the extra 2.5, 3 hours to Las Vegas and stay there than drive out to Fontana. It is kind of out of the way from most big cities in Southern California and has crappy racing, but as a local to the track I think weather did have something to do with the crappy attendance. 49. 00andJoe posted: 07.24.2011 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the subject of California: you'd think somebody would have noticed that 1. two previous attempts at racing in Southern Cal - Ontario and Riverside - closed, and 2. Los Angeles couldn't keep and can't get a -NFL team-. You'd think that maybe somebody might have looked at these facts and gone, "gee, maybe this isn't such a great sporting market after all". But apparently they didn't, and thus Penske's Folly was built (then cleverly foisted off on ISC). 50. Flywheel posted: 07.24.2011 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Roger Penske already announced a weeks on week tunnel with Dave Despain that Brad isn't racing full time in the Nationwide series next year. To this end, I'll point out Mark Martin and Brett Farve to you. @One thing that does amuse me (in the darkly-amused kind of way) is how people jump all over the Cup drivers running the NNS, asking "what do they have to prove?", when it used to be people looked at them and said "wow, they run these races because they love to race and can't sit out a race and watch it, they need to -race-". Well, that's because they DID love to race. They brought their own cars and equipment...Dale Earnhardt, Ernie Irvan, Ken Schrader, Terry Labonte, Morgan Shepherd (and many more)...while they ran for Cup teams on Sunday, they drove for themselves on Saturday. Far different from what you have now. 51. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2011 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "As Johnny Rutherford, who won the Indianapolis 500 three times (including becoming the first to win it twice from the pole) once said, that if the lady (referring to Indy) likes you, she'll be a great friend, but if she doesn't like you, she'll torment you." Fun fact about Johnny Rutherford: He won the Indy 500 3 times, but only completed 500 miles twice. "it took USAC several years to discover that racing in the early-September heat wasn't a good idea" So NASCAR had precedence in this and still went forward with Fontana on Labor Day. I didn't know that, but I'm far from surprised. Not only does NASCAR not bother to see what the weather is like in Southern Cal on Labor Day (really freaking hot), they could have seen a previous example. Classic. And speaking of not bothering to check weather trends...... "when they moved the spring race from May to February that just killed any chances. One they put the race on the weekened of the Academy Awards, which happen to be about an hour away from the track; two, February weather even in that part of California is not great, as evidenced by all the rain effected races there recently." Foresight is anything but the strong point of the Brian France regime. "You'd think that maybe somebody might have looked at these facts and gone, "gee, maybe this isn't such a great sporting market after all". But apparently they didn't, and thus Penske's Folly was built (then cleverly foisted off on ISC)." Excellent points. And this was even before they handed Brian the keys (to NASCAR, not to be mistaken for his Porsche that he drunkenly crashed). "I went to the PASS race at North Wilkes last year (I posted a video on the track's comments page). I was surprised at how good of shape the facility itself was in. Safer barriers + new scoreboard + some paint and it's ready to go." PASS, that is the name of it. But you are right, it is in good condition, it just looks like hell because of all the faded paint. But the track is still perfectly raceable, the grandstands are in good shape, the lift to victory lane still works, and the scoreboard actually works, but it uses an old style of lights to light up, and everything sold nowadays used LED technology, so they just couldn't find any lights to make the board work. "I'm shocked that Carl Edwards doesn't get the "Kyle Busch treatment" in nascar with the whole him vs. Brad Keselowski deal (where he tried to KILL HIM at Gateway). Huh I find it weird." That is an excellent point. A lot of that has to do with Aflac being so involved with NASCAR and spending a lot of money making sure people see Carl's fake nice guy persona. "I had patience with Brian Scott. But enough is enough." I agree, I meant to say something about this earlier. What he did to Mikey Kile was just bad driving. I was willing to give him a chance, but I think he has showed he doesn't belong. Like you said, if his family wasn't paying the bills he would have been out on his ass a long time ago. 52. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2011 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, I lived in the San Diego area for 31 years, and I can say that one of the problems that all pro sports in Southern California have is that there are so many things to do. As for the Auto Club Speedway, you can get there just as easliy from San Diego as you can from Los Angeles. But pro sports has been a problem in SoCal for many years. You mentioned that Los Angeles lost both it's pro teams in the same offseason (1994, just after the Chargers played in their only Super Bowl). But you failed to mention that San Diego has lost two NBA teams. First, they lost the Rockets to Houston, and then they lost the Clippers to Los Angeles. (The Clippers franchise was actually the Buffalo Braves, who moved to San Diego in about 1978, so that franchise actually moved twice in seven years.) And the Padres nearly moved to Washington in 1974, before McDonald's founder Ray Kroc bought the team. So, as you can see, professional sports in Southern California faces more competition than anywhere else in the nation. And not only do you have the Academy Awards (as DSFF mentioned), but also Disneyland, Knott's Berry Farm, and Six Flags Magic Mountain off of I-5 in various points in the L.A. area, as well as Sea World (also off the I-5 much further south), the San Diego Zoo, and the Wild Animal Park off CA-78 near Escondido (about 30 miles from downtown S.D.) in the San Diego area. And there are many other places for people to have fun in Southern California, so professional sports is lower on the entertainment food chain there than it is anywhere else. By the way, I think Carl Edwards is gone from Roush after this season, as I believe he will move to Joe Gibbs' operation. The reason is simply financially based, but not necessarily just for Edwards, but also for Roush. I believe Edwards will leave simply due to Roush's ongoing problems finding sponsors. I believe he will be replaced by Ricky Stenhouse, who's driving style is exactly like Edwards. Trevor Bayne would still be part-time in the #21 car, as his style of consistent, but unspectacular runs fits perfectly with the Wood Brothers, who will again run a partial schedule. I do think Bayne would do better in a Cup car that he would a Nationwide car, because you just can't run all-out for the entire race like you can in the Nationwide car, nor can you just hang the car out for the full race like Edwards and Stenhouse like to do, and Bayne favors the more consistent style, as I've mentioned, as he won't hustle a car around the track. I also believe that the other main drivers rumored in the NASCAR free agent market will remain right where they are, except for Joey Logano and Mark Martin. As for the Johnny Rutherford thing at Indy. Yes, he finshed the entire 500 miles only twice, despite winning the race three times, and he only finished on the lead lap one other time. That was in 1975, when he almost certainly would have finished the complete race, but the monsoon ended it at 174 laps with him about a half-lap behind winner Bobby Unser. Interstingly, the top three finishers in that race all finished on the lead lap (A.J. Foyt was beside winner Bobby Unser, but nearly a full lap behind), and were five laps ahead of third place at the finish. 53. Cooper posted: 07.24.2011 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "47. 12345Dude posted: 07.24.11 - 6:52 pm" That is pretty cool about the Gronkowski's. Unfortunately for me, I wasn't as lucky. Some people dream about having a mansion, I dream about having a basement... I'm the first one in my family to go to college (Graduated BTW). Unfortunately I have zero resources and contacts which makes it almost impossible to succeed. I wish I had a family that was well off with established lifestyles, but I wasn't lucky enough. That's why I have a vendetta against people that have been given everything without proving they deserve it. And there's some drivers that fall under this category. BTW, no one has mentioned the great invocation that was given before the race. It involved thanking the lord for Sunoco fuel, Goodyear tires, and smoking hot wives. The crowd and the drivers loved it. 54. 12345Dude posted: 07.24.2011 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Your online spell checker American English British English German "That is pretty cool about the Gronkowski's. Unfortunately for me, I wasn't as lucky. Some people dream about having a mansion, I dream about having a basement... I'm the first one in my family to go to college (Graduated BTW). Unfortunately I have zero resources and contacts which makes it almost impossible to succeed." Sadly all those people I mentioned, are my cousins. So is the owner of G&G Fitness. Our family makes average money. That so awesome, about you. The first person to go to colledge and graduate. That's so awesome. Congradulations. And the thing with the vendetta. I don't blame you one bit. I have a vendetta again racists, and homophobes. "I also believe that the other main drivers rumored in the NASCAR free agent market will remain right where they are, except for Joey Logano and Mark Martin." I agree about Carl Edwards. I think he would of signed with Roush already. But it sounds like Carl Edwards is going to replace Joey. I agree with the rest of the guys. I looked at the up and coming free agents. They should stay. "That is pretty cool about the Gronkowski's. Unfortunately for me, I wasn't as lucky. Some people dream about having a mansion, I dream about having a basement... I'm the first one in my family to go to college (Graduated BTW). Unfortunately I have zero resources and contacts which makes it almost impossible to succeed." Sadly all those people I mentioned, are my cousins. So is the owner of G&G Fitness. Our family makes average money. That so awesome, about you. The first person to go to colledge and graduate. That's so awesome. Congratulations. And the thing with the vendetta. I don't blame you one bit. I have a vendetta again racists, and homophobes. "I also believe that the other main drivers rumoured in the NASCAR free agent market will remain right where they are, except for Joey Logano and Mark Martin." I agree about Carl Edwards. I think he would of signed with Roush already. But it sounds like Carl Edwards is going to replace Joey. I agree with the rest of the guys. I looked at the up and coming free agents. They should stay. 55. 12345Dude posted: 07.24.2011 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) (sorry about last post) "That is pretty cool about the Gronkowski's. Unfortunately for me, I wasn't as lucky. Some people dream about having a mansion, I dream about having a basement... I'm the first one in my family to go to college (Graduated BTW). Unfortunately I have zero resources and contacts which makes it almost impossible to succeed." Sadly all those people I mentioned, are my cousins. So is the owner of G&G Fitness. Our family makes average money. That so awesome, about you. The first person to go to colledge and graduate. That's so awesome. Congradulations. And the thing with the vendetta. I don't blame you one bit. I have a vendetta again racists, and homophobes. "I also believe that the other main drivers rumored in the NASCAR free agent market will remain right where they are, except for Joey Logano and Mark Martin." I agree about Carl Edwards. I think he would of signed with Roush already. But it sounds like Carl Edwards is going to replace Joey. I agree with the rest of the guys. I looked at the up and coming free agents. They should stay. 56. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2011 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who's to say that Edwards will replace Logano. Yes, maybe in the #20 car, but I think that Logano will remain with Joe Gibbs Racing in a fourth car. I also think that Roush may have to downsize his operation significantly next year, due to lack of sponsorship. First, I think that at least one, if not two of his three NNS cars may go next year, possibly along with one of his Cup cars. In other words, Roush may go from four Cup (Carl Edwards, Greg Biffle, Matt Kenseth, and David Ragan) and three Nationwide (Edwards, Ricky Stenhouse, and Trevor Bayne) teams to three Cup teams (four if David Ragan stays, with Stenhouse replacing Edwards, with Kenseth and Biffle also staying put) and one, maybe two full-time NNS teams (Stenhouse in one and his other Cup drivers, along with possibly Chris Buescher, or some other deveolpmental driver we may not know about, sharing the second ride) if he can't find sponsorship. That would be a serious blow to Ford's hopes for the future, though Stenhouse would possibly stimulate the hopes of Ford. After all, the #16 NNS car might not run at IRP this week, and might not run several more times the remainder of the year. After all, Roush really has nothing to gain by running the #16 NNS car any more this year, since it is unsponsored. As for Trevor Bayne, he may have his partial Wood Brothers schedule next year, if that's not contigent on him staying with Roush, because Roush may be forced to release him, or at least give him opportunities elsewhere, due to lack of sponsorship. But aside from that, Bayne may, for all we know, be out of a ride next year, especially if his ride in the #21 car is contingent on him staying with Roush next year. And if Bayne is forced out of the #21 car due to being released by roush over lack of sponsorship, would Mark Martin replace him there? 57. RACE34 posted: 07.25.2011 - 2:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The funny thing is that NASCAR fans have this little thing where you can't dare say anything bad about historic tracks IMS maybe not historic to NASCAR but in general it was built half a century before all those other tracks! 58. irony posted: 07.25.2011 - 2:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) So this makes me think. Who would sanction the Indy 500 if IndyCar went bankrupt? Does NASCAR have an evil plan? 59. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.25.2011 - 9:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) NASCAR always has an evil plan. If Carl does announce he is leaving for JGR, then I will bump Kenseth up to 3rd on my list of likely Cup champs this year behind JJ and Gordon. Roush will make sure Matt has the best resources for the last 10 races. With Matt driving and Fennig making the calls, that could be dangerous. Normally I don't buy into team conspiracies, but Jack is one vindictive SOB (see Busch, Kurt and 2005). 60. 00andJoe posted: 07.25.2011 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If IndyCar goes belly-up, dollars to doughnuts says it's Tony George with the evil plan (but again, the Hulmans and Georges are hand-in-hand with the new age NASCAR, so...). Brickyard 400 entry list is out. 48 cars: Bayne in the #21 Terry Labonte in the #23, a second Frank Stoddard Ford. Stremme in the #30 Scott Speed in the #37 Darnell in the #46 Ford T.J. Bell in the #50 Yeley in the #55 Wimmer in the #77 61. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 07.25.2011 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 44 cars on the initial Nationwide Entry List, as usual, Keselowski and Edwards are the only Cup guys. Trevor Bayne joins them as the only Cup/N-Wide double duty drivers (that will run the distance in both races). Pastrana-Waltrip Racing returns with Travis Pastrana making his long awaited NASCAR Nationwide Series debut. 62. Talon64 posted: 07.25.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl Edwards gets his 34th career NNS win, putting him 3 back of Kevin Harvick for 3rd all time. He also surpasses Kyle Busch for 5th all time in top 5's with 116, although that's a battle that'll continue for a while. He's 2 back of teammate Matt Kenseth for 4th. If Nashville does end up off the schedule due to crap attendance, then Carl's pretty much guaranteed to hold the record for most NNS wins there, 5, forever. BTW, Kevin Harvick just needs 1 more top 10 to become the 1st driver in series history to reach 200; he's passed Tommy Houston for the all time mark at Loudon with his 199th top 10. Ricky Stenhouse Jr. makes it a Roush 1-2 for the 4th time this season with his 2nd runner-up finish of the season. It's also just the 2nd time all season he's had back-to-back top 5's, but he now has a series-high 15 top 10's in 20 races. It gives Ricky top 5's in both Nashville races this season, after finishing no better than 23rd in his first 3 starts at the track. Austin Dillon had the best weekend of anyone in NASCAR, backing up his Truck Series win with a career-best 3rd in the NNS race. It's his 2nd top 5 in 10 series starts, his first since finishing 4th at Memphis in 2008 as a 19 y/o. Austin has top 10's in all 3 of his starts in the #33 KHI car this season, posting a 3.3 avg start and 6.7 avg fin. It's the #33's 3rd straight top 3 finish, after Harvick posted back-to-back runner-ups in the previous 2 races. Justin Allgaier has back-to-back top 10's for the first time since Richmond and Darlington back in April/May. Justin's on pace for a career-high 10 top 5's this season (8 in 2010). Aric Almirola has back-to-back top 5's for the first time this season, and has 3 top 10's in the last 4 races. It's also his 20th career top 10 in 59 series starts. Sam Hornish Jr. finished a career-best 6th, his 2nd top 10 in 7 starts this season (16.3 avg fin). But his best career finish in NASCAR is still in Cup, 4th at Pocono in 2009. Drew Herring gets his first career top 10 in 6 series starts in 7th. His solid run helped the #18 to maintain it's sizeable lead in the owners championship at 28 points over the #32, while the #60 could only cut it down to 49 points with their win. Reed Sorenson took over the point lead with his first top 10 in 3 races, and 6th in 8 Nashville starts. Trevor Bayne gets his first top 10 in 5 races. Despite missing 5 races due to illness he's 11th in the standings but 61 points out of 10th. But 10th in points right now is Brian Scott so assuming Bayne runs all the remaining the races I think his chances of ending up 10th are pretty good. lol Kenny Wallace ties Matt Kenseth for 5th all time in top 10's with 168. He's on pace for 15 this season, which would be his most since 1994; his career high is 17, back in 1991 when he finished 2nd in the standings. Brad Keselowski won his 2nd consecutive Nationwide pole and 10th of his career (tied with Kenny Wallce, Martin Truex Jr., Bobby Labonte and Dale Jr. for 27th all time, putting 4 series champions in that group). Despite the issues he had, Mikey Kile finished a career-best 15th. It's his 2nd straight top 20 finish after finishing 29th and 33rd in his first 2 starts of the season. Timmy Hill was the highest finishing rookie in 22nd; he holds a 5 point lead in the ROTY standings over Blake Koch. 63. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2011 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So, that answers my question on whether or not the #16 NNS car will run at IRP, though I still don't think it will contend for the win, unless they give Trevor a tighter steup than they've been giving him. After all, Bayne can't drive the same setup as Edwards aan Stenhouse, as they prefer looser setups, as they drive on the ragged edge every lap, while Bayne, a more consistent driver, likes his cars to be tighter. To prove that point, he's not the only driver to have that problem at Roush's. When he drove for Roush, Jamie McMurray had the exact same problem. He couldn't drive Roush's looser cars the same way as Greg Biffle, Edwards, or even Mark Martin could either, and even said so once, either in a post-race interview, or in a radio communication, but I did hear him make that comment that he couldn't drive Roush's looser cars like his teammates could. The way Roush sets up his cars may be a reason they generally struggle at the shorter, flatter tracks, with the exception of Matt Kenseth, who also likes tighter cars. That may be why, when Edwards and Biffle dominated in 2005 and 2008, Kenseth couldn't seem to find his way, because Edwards and Biffle like looser race cars, while Kenseth likes a tighter race car, and it took Roush a number of years to figure that out. Now that he has, Kenseth and Edwards are racing on equal ground for the first time. And, as I mentioned before, I do think Edwards is gone at season's end, due to Roush's sponsorship issues, and I think that may partially derail his chances at a championship, but I think another reason he won't win the title, is that Edwards often chokes when the pressure is on. His history tells you that. Kenseth, if put in the same situation, especially now that he has Jimmy Fennig in his corner, will thrive when the pressure is on. After all, Kenseth nearly stole the title in 2006 with obviously inferior cars than did Jimmie Johnson, who he battled for the title that year. As for your point, DSFF, aboput Roush being a vindictive person, I'll go one step further. Jamie McMurray, who drove for Roush for four seasons before rejoining Chip Ganassi last year said that he has a better relationship with Ganassi, even in the four years that he wasn't driving for him, than he ever had at Roush, even going so far as to say that Roush is, in his mind a "cold person". He made those comments on an ESPN talk show when he appeared on it, though I forgot what the show actually was, or who was hosting it, but he did make those comments on that program. 64. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2011 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Bayne may finish in the top ten in points not having a finish higher than fifth by actually racing, and possibly only finishing that high in a racing situation once, at Michigan, where he was far behind the other two RFR cars, as usual, due to the fact that, as I mentioned in my last post, he just can't drive them the way that Edwards and Stenhouse can. He's never actually admitted that, but you can actually see that discrepancy between him and Roush's other Nationwide Series drivers by actually watching the race. He did finish third at Chicago, but that was due to fuel mileage. If not for that, the best he would have done would have been about sixth. You mentioned Brian Scott is 10th in points, Talon64. If not for fuel mileage, Scott may well have won that race at Chicago, because he had been close enough to Edwards and Justin Allgaier that, if they had run out of fuel at the same point, and Scott didn't run out of fuel, Scott was close enough to them that he would have passed them before they reached the start-finish line. I actually don't think that Bayne can run higher than about fifth or sixth in one of these Nationwide races as long as they continue to put Edwards' setup under him, unless it's a fule mileage situation, because he just can't drive a car to the front with that particular setup under it. It just doesn't suit his driving style. 65. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.25.2011 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That may be why, when Edwards and Biffle dominated in 2005 and 2008, Kenseth couldn't seem to find his way, because Edwards and Biffle like looser race cars, while Kenseth likes a tighter race car, and it took Roush a number of years to figure that out. Now that he has, Kenseth and Edwards are racing on equal ground for the first time." That is an interesting point. I had noticed Kenseth's success cycles are never in sync with Biff and Carl's. You are right about '05 and '08, and the opposite was true in '06. That was a great year for Matt while Biff had a disappointing follow up to his incredible '05, and Carl had the worst sophomore slump since Harvick in '02, going from 4 wins to none. If Carl leaves, expect those cars to be engineered to be tight. "Jamie McMurray, who drove for Roush for four seasons before rejoining Chip Ganassi last year said that he has a better relationship with Ganassi, even in the four years that he wasn't driving for him, than he ever had at Roush, even going so far as to say that Roush is, in his mind a "cold person"." That is interesting. None of his drivers seem to be "close" to him. Even Matt, who has been under contract with Roush either as a developmental driver or as a Cup driver since 1997, doesn't exactly gush over him. He is appreciative for the opportunity Jack gave him, but compare him talking about Robbie Reiser to his comments about Jack. He lights up when talking about Robbie. 66. Cooper posted: 07.25.2011 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since we're talking about Jack Roush... I remember CJ mentioning sponsorship and how Bayne can't attract a sponsor. It's not Bayne's fault. I believe it's Jack. Jack has a history of being the most expensive team to sponsor. And actually when you take a look at his track record it matches up. He's even having trouble acquiring sponsorship for the #17 once again. Jack has a track record of having tumultuous relationships with sponsors. Most of the sponsors don't leave the sport but find someone or something else. Off the top of my head here's the list of companies to appear on Roush cars only to leave: Valvoline, John Deere, Exide Batteries, Family Click/TV Guide, Sharpie, Rubbermaid, CITGO, Smirnoff Ice, Dewalt, Grainger, Viagra, AAA, Irwin Tools, Crown Royal It's ridiculous. Jack Roush can't hold a sponsor down. 67. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2011 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, he's having trouble sponsoring the #6, #17, and #99 Cup cars for next year and can't get a sponsor for his Nationwide program either on a full-time basis, despite how good two of the three cars are this year. As for Trevor Bayne not being able to find a sponsor. Well, that's how he got to Roush in the first place, because he couldn't find a sponsor when he drove for Michael Waltrip last year. Waltrip had intentions to run him full time in the NNS this year and even run some Cup races, if what I heard was accurate, but all that fell through because Waltrip couldn't find him a sponsor, and he had to skip some races this year, effectively ending Ryan Truex's season becuase he couldn't get him any sponsorship. 68. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2011 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Cooper, I don't think it's all because Jack Roush is the most expensive car owner to sponsor. I think part of the problem with him finding sponsors is because of his personality. Read the last part of post #63 for my point about what Jamie McMurray had to say about him. DSFF had another point about Matt Kenseth's feelings toward both Roush and Robbie Reiser in post #65. The contrast about Kenseth's feelings towards both Roush and Reiser, if what DSFF says is true, is also very telling, as is the comment in that post about none of the drivers feeling very close to him. That may be the most telling statement of all about Roush, especially considering what Roush has accomplished with the number of drivers he's had. But his treatment of some of his drivers may back up those statements. Anyone remember how he treated Jeff Burton toward the end of his tenure there. He bascially treated him like a second-class citizen, not giving him what he needed to run up front in the #99 car. And I believe there are other stories like that with Roush, but the Burton case is the most glaring. After all, most of the drivers that have driven for Roush are closely knit, but apparently not where the car owner is concerned. Compare that to Rick Hendrick, who never had a driver say anything negative about him that I know of. Maybe that's the secret to Hendrick's success, that he treats his employees like people, while Roush seems to treat them like tools. 69. 18fan posted: 07.25.2011 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 20 car returns to the track this week with Drew Herring. Michael McDowell will be in the 18 car. 70. Cooper posted: 07.25.2011 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 68. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.11 - 6:24 pm Very good points here. Makes lot of sense now. My questionability (I just made a new word) of Jack was when a 10 year partner in Dewalt, strictly walked out on a championship driver and great spokesman only to re-appear in the sport a year later. (With Marcos Ambrose now) I thought it was a strictly dollar and cents move from Dewalt but I could be mistaken. You would think T-Bayne would be an ideal driver to sponsor considering his personality and performance, but maybe companies are scared to team up with Jack. 71. 00andJoe posted: 07.25.2011 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There has to be -something- going on there. Trevor's a good kid, well-spoken, clean-cut, salt-of-the-earth...oh, and he's got a Daytona 500 win in his pocket, too. You'd think companies would be throwing themselves at his feet to get their logos on his car. The fact that they're not, well, that indicates that something has got to be rotten in the state of Denmark. Of course, the fact he was sick (it seems it was Lyme Disease, btw, not sure that's been mentioned) hasn't helped, but since things were that way even beforehand, well... 72. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.25.2011 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also compare Jack's driver's interactions with him to Rick Hendrick's or Joe Gibbs' drivers. When a Hendrick driver wins, they practically leap into his arms in victory lane or squeeze him like a giant teddy bear. And JGR drivers treat the Coach like Yoda. You can just see the reverence and respect for him. Has Jack ever even hugged any of his drivers in victory lane? I just think its telling hos drivers that have been employed by him for long periods of time (Matt since '97, Biff since '98, Carl since '03) don't seem to be very close to him on a personal level. They are quite a bit more stand-offish. When Jeff Gordon went through his divorce, he actually lived at Rick and Linda Hendrick's house for a while. Hell, even Dale Earnhardt let Steve Park live in his house for a little while in the late 90s. The Intimidator. Of course, away from the track, he was a lot more caring than he wanted people to know about. "(it seems it was Lyme Disease, btw, not sure that's been mentioned)" I read that recently too. I thought that tick bite had to have something to do with it. I'm glad to hear it was that and not something worse. I think Trevor has a good future. Like cjs has said, he is more suited to Cup than NWide. Plus he is still very young. Just 20. And he has an excellent head on his shoulders. Immediately after winning the Daytona 500 he was seeking Christian counsel on how to stay grounded during all the hoopla about to happen. I'm guessing if I were to have won the Daytona 500 right after turning 20, I would be declaring myself the greatest person that ever lived. 73. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2011 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In fact, Jack Roush, for some reason, was more joyous when Trevor Bayne won the Daytona 500 than in at anytime that an remember, and that includes when he first won the championship in 2003 with Matt Kenseth, or with Kurt Busch the following year. When he finally won the Daytona 500 in 2009 with Kenseth, victory lane was seemed to be the most melancholy in the history of the Daytona 500, even though Kenseth did shed a few tears, Roush didn't even seem that emotional in that moment, though it wasn't spontaneous, since that race was called about 15 minutes after it was stopped after 152 laps due to rain. But when Bayne won the Daytona 500, Roush seemed overjoyed, especially for him, which was really odd since Bayne, while employed by Roush as a development driver, was actually racing for the Wood Brothers that day, and the driver that finished second, Carl Edwards, was actually driving for Roush. In effect, Roush was more excited to see a driver, while employed by him, that was racing for another team, beat out one of his own drivers to win the biggest race on the circuit. to see Roush react like that over Bayne's victory, which came at the expense of his very own team, may say something about Bayne's magnetic personality, as well as Roush's feelings toward his own drivers. 74. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.26.2011 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Good race for Drew Herring and Kenny Wallace. Surprisingly, Wallace has been doing quite well lately with a team that isn't that good, and is actually in the top 10 in points right now, ahead of both of his brother's cars. If the ESPN crew was indeed ripping on Herring for not running as well as Busch, they are even more clueless than I thought. Those guys are INVOLVED WITH THE SPORT! I'd expect them to know better than me that you can't just go out there and match up to one of the sport's top drivers when you have a handful of starts under your belt. The outcome of this race makes me glad that Carl and Brad won't be running the full NW schedule next year. 75. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.26.2011 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now for the part where I respond to a variety of posts since I didn't come into this page until today: "Edwards really needs to get out of the Nationwide Series. Unfortunately I don't think his brazen ego can process the fact that he's ruining the series." As of right now, he won't be running the full schedule in the NW series in 2012. I'm REALLY hoping he sticks to that and doesn't change his mind. "The real question for Brad is why did he choose Penske if they couldn't guarantee him a Cup ride?" Wasn't there also uncertainty about the #88 Nationwide car at the time he signed with Penske? Obviously the #88 is still solidly funded, but there was talk about possible sponsor loss. Plus, he wasn't going to get a Cup ride for 2010 if he stayed with Rick because of Mark wanting to stay on so it's understandable why he signed with Penske. I thought at first Brad would end up back there once a spot was open, but when they signed Kasey Kahne, that theory went to bed. I think Brad realizes just as much as we do how lucky he is that the situation with Penske Racing seems to be starting to work out for him. Regarding Indianapolis Motor Speedway, I know it has been one of the biggest events on the Cup schedule since 1994, but it honestly would not upset me if NASCAR stopped racing there entirely. I'd rather see Cup get a date at the IRP/ORP/LOR or whatever the hell it's called now. But obviously neither will happen since NASCAR gave the NW series a date at Indy which unfortunately means they will be racing there for a long time to come, and that IRP (that's what I'll call it since I know it as that) will probably fade away. Sad but true. As far as Jack Roush goes, I agree with what most of you have said about his demeanor. To me he comes off as greedy and vindictive, and he's probably my least favorite owner in NASCAR. It seems like he has a reputation for asking sponsors for an extremely high price which causes them to leave (I think that could be what caused Exide, John Deere, Viagra, Citgo, etc. to leave his team). The one thing he does do a good job with however, is developing younger drivers like Bayne and Stenhouse. 76. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.26.2011 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Since we're talking about Jack Roush... I remember CJ mentioning sponsorship and how Bayne can't attract a sponsor. It's not Bayne's fault. I believe it's Jack. Jack has a history of being the most expensive team to sponsor. And actually when you take a look at his track record it matches up. He's even having trouble acquiring sponsorship for the #17 once again. Jack has a track record of having tumultuous relationships with sponsors. Most of the sponsors don't leave the sport but find someone or something else. Off the top of my head here's the list of companies to appear on Roush cars only to leave: Valvoline, John Deere, Exide Batteries, Family Click/TV Guide, Sharpie, Rubbermaid, CITGO, Smirnoff Ice, Dewalt, Grainger, Viagra, AAA, Irwin Tools, Crown Royal It's ridiculous. Jack Roush can't hold a sponsor down." LOL, I should have just skipped what I said about sponsors leaving Roush and responded to this post. It's spot on. 77. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2011 - 9:10 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Actually, from what I understand, the facilities at IRP are not anywhere near NASCAR standards, especially for it's signature series'. Nor is pit road very good, and there are no SAFER barriers at IRP at all. Frankly, I'm surprised that IRP has lasted this long, because of how far below standards the facility is. Actually, the only reason it has remained a NASCAR track this long is that Tony George didn't want NASCAR to move it's Nationwide (Busch, as it was known, then) Series, as well as the Trucks Series to IMS as many as 10-12 years ago. Also, not to beat a dead horse, the reason that IMS doesn't have the great races that everyone is used to seeing is that it was NEVER designed as a race track, especially a high-speed race track. Even in the 1920s, the Indianapolis 500, while the biggest race, was nowhere near the most popular, because you couldn't run close there, even then. The most popular racing was at the board tracks of the day, which were the forerunners of today's high-banked paved ovals. Where do you think the idea for tracks like Daytona, Atlanta, Charlotte, and all the high-banked ovals that followed them originally came from? It came from the high speeds, internse competition, and extreme popularity of the board tracks of the 1920s. After all, dirt track racing didn't really take off until either the depression hit in the 1930s, or even after World War II in 1946. 78. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.26.2011 - 11:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But when Bayne won the Daytona 500, Roush seemed overjoyed, especially for him, which was really odd since Bayne, while employed by Roush as a development driver, was actually racing for the Wood Brothers that day, and the driver that finished second, Carl Edwards, was actually driving for Roush." You are right. Another example: When Matt Kenseth won his first Busch Series race at Rockingham. After he took the checkered flag, the camera showed Jack just smiling away, giving the camera a big thumbs up over and over, downright giddy. Matt was his new developmental driver, but he was driving a Robbie Reiser CHEVROLET! And he beat out his flagship dirver, Mark, in the Rousch Winn Dixie Ford. I saw this on YouTube a few weeks ago (its the 1998 Goodwrench 200) and was shocked because I had never seen Jack that happy. I think he takes more pride in discovering and signing new talent, especially if they win on a lesser funded team, than winning with that talent once they develop. 79. Talon64 posted: 07.27.2011 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't notice this until today, but Justin Allgaier's now only 30 points out of the lead; he gained 11 points with his top 5 finish at Nashville so now it's fair to say the NNS title fight is up to a 4 man battle. 80. 00andJoe posted: 07.27.2011 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's one thing I appreciate about the new points system. While -overall- it's harder to gain or lose points, if somebody has a bad day it's -easier- to make up a lot of points on them if you have a good one. 81. cjs3872 posted: 07.27.2011 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've never mentioned it, but I prefer the old points strcture, where you got 190 points for a win (basically, the Latford structure), because it made top 5 finishes more important than top 10s. After all, with the Latford system, finishing positions inside the top 6 were separated by FIVE points, then the breakdown went to FOUR points through 11th place, then THREE points through the balance of the field. That points system made finishing with the leaders if you didn't win more important than it is this year. After all, the difference between finishing second and third is the same as the difference between finishing 42nd and 43rd, and that just doesn't make any sense. Finishing positions up front, where championship points are concerned should be more at a premium. Now, if you can't win the race, if you're running fourth, it doesn't make any sense to take a chance to run third, because the difference is just one point, which is the same difference if you're running 30 positions behind. You wouldn't take a risk to finish 33rd if you're running 34th of 35th, would you? What NASCAR needs to do is go back to a points system that puts a premium on finishing up front, because this one sure doesn't. After all, we could very well see Elliott Sadler win the championship not finishing better than third in any race this entire season, and only finishing that high once (Darlington). And James Buescher, despite not even qualifying for the race at Phoenix, has gotten all the way up to third in Truck Series points, despite not finishing any higher than fourth in any race this season. If the chips fall just right, he could win the championship without ever finishing in the top three this entire season AND missing one race. The only thing I like about this point system is that it penalizes bad finishes as much, if not more than the old system, which it should. The key to contending for a championship shouldn't just how many races you win, even though winning should be important, but rather just how often you finish amongthe leaders. If you finish among the leaders more often than anyone else, you deserve the championship, even if you don't win even one race. Just look at the 1978 IndyCar season. That year, Al Unser won all three 500-mile races, and Danny Ongais won five other races that year. But neither won the championship because they fell out of too many races. On the other hand, Tom Sneva did not win a single race that year (for which he got fired by Roger Penske), but he finished in the top three ten times (six second-place and four third-place finishes) in the 18-race USAC season that year, easily more than any other driver, and deserved to win the championship, even though he failed to win a race that year. That was a case of the driver that finished among the leaders the most winning the championship, while the drivers that did all the winning fail because they had too many bad finishes. That case proves that bad finishes hamper a championship run more than just winning races can help it. 82. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.28.2011 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "it made top 5 finishes more important than top 10s" I agree. That disparity from 1st to 6th was enough to make a major points day with a win even if the guy you were racing finished 10th. See the 1990 Phoenix race. Mark walked in with a 45 point lead, never led a lap, but still finished 10th. Not bad right? Dale led the most laps (by far) and won, taking a 6 point lead into the finale. 83. Talon64 posted: 07.28.2011 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's the blog I did back in January when they announced the new points structure: http://www.racing-reference.info/showblog?id=609 Compared to the old system, 2nd through to 13th gain a few more points relative to the race winner. Meanwhile once you get to 15th and beyond drivers start to earn fewer and fewer points. So cjs3872 really nails the issues with the new point system, and the numbers back it up. BTW, 9 non-Cup drivers have bettered or equaled Sadler's best finish this season in NNS; Sorenson, Stenhouse Jr., Allgaier, Leffler and Fellows have bettered it while Bayne, Nemechek, Cassill and Austin Dillon have equaled it. 84. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2011 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Nowadays, everyone thinks the driver with 10 wins in 36 races should be champ, even though he only has 23 top-10s. The champ should be the guy who has only 3 wins in 36 races, but has 32 top-10s. Unfortunately, NASCAR disagrees. Jeff Gordon had one of the ten best years in NASCAR history in 2007, but he finished second because the champ, JJ, had more wins despite lacking severely in top-5s and top-10s compared to Jeff, so really, there isn't that much of a difference in points systems. It's just how many Buschwhackers interfere. 85. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2011 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good stats, Talon64. 86. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2011 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872: Also see Tony Bettenhausen in USAC and Dale Shaw in KNPSE. 87. cjs3872 posted: 07.28.2011 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I'm not referring top top 10 finishes when I say drivers finishing among the leaders the most in a season. When I say that, I'm referring to top threes and top fives. And by the way, neither Johnson or anyone else would've come anywhere near beating Jeff Gordon out for the title in 2007, if it weren't for the idiotic Chase (which has diluted ALL the big races, including the Daytona 500 and Brickyard 400, making then less important), since Gordon had a two to three RACE lead on everyone else at the time that the points were reset. Gordon went from a two to three race LEAD to a 20-point DEFICIT as a result. Don't dare try to tell me, or anyone else that that's fair. One exception to my rule was 1996, when Gordon and Terry Labonte had, I believe the same number of top three and top ten finishes, but Labonte won the title because he didn't have as many bad finishes. And by the way, I don't think Johnson had that many fewer top fives than Gordon had in '07, but I might be wrong. And remember, the point difference between winning and finishing tenth, which got this part of the discussion started, could be as many as 61 points for a single race in 2007, or about a 30% spread between first and tenth. And by the way Talon64, Bayne is unlikely to match that finish (at Chicagoland) this year, if he doesn't in the next two races, because he doesn't hustle the car, which is the way you run up front in the Nationwide Series. He, as I've mentioned, drives more like Ricky Rudd, Benny Parsons, and the Labonte brothers. In fact, Austin Dillon may be more likely to win than Bayne is. But, if my theory holds true, Bayne may likely reverse this situation in the Cup seires, providing he gets a quality ride on a full-time basis, which may not happen for a while, if at all. After all, Bobby Labonte and Benny Parsons each won one championship, while Terry Labonte bettered them by winning two (a record 12 years apart), and while he never won a championship, Rudd was competitve for over 25 years. Oddly, none of those drivers ever won more than four races in a season, Terry Labonte won three only twice (1994-'95), and Rudd never won more than twice in any season. And all four drivers ended up with between 21 and 23 victories in their careers. Rudd and Terry Labonte even rank in the top 10 all-time in top 10 finishes. (At one time, they ranked 1-2 in that category among active drivers for several years.) 88. Eric posted: 07.28.2011 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Bobby Labonte won 5 races in 1999 on the cup level. Bobby's 1999 actually was better than his 2000 season based on wins, top 5's, top 10's, poles, and laps lead. The only thing that Bobby Labonte's 2000 champion season has over his 1999 season is in points and in average finish. You correct about Terry Labonte, Ricky Rudd, and Benny Parsons not winning more than 4 races in any season though. 89. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.29.2011 - 1:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nowadays, everyone thinks the driver with 10 wins in 36 races should be champ, even though he only has 23 top-10s. The champ should be the guy who has only 3 wins in 36 races, but has 32 top-10s." Exactly. Unfortunately, many fans did not see it this way and lobbied for change when they thought Kenseth was being "too boring" because he put together the best season. That's not to say that I don't think winning should be rewarded, because I do. But if you have a high number of wins but also about the same number of DNF's, then you are less likely to deserve the title unless by some miracle you still manage to put together the best season (I doubt this will ever happen). "Bobby Labonte won 5 races in 1999 on the cup level. Bobby's 1999 actually was better than his 2000 season based on wins, top 5's, top 10's, poles, and laps lead. The only thing that Bobby Labonte's 2000 champion season has over his 1999 season is in points and in average finish." Bobby was definitely good enough to have won the 1999 Cup as well, except Dale Jarrett put together an even better season than Bobby. Kind of like Jimmie Johnson in 2003 when he put together a good enough year to be champion, except Matt Kenseth was even better. 90. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2011 - 6:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In 07, Gordo also had one of the best season "average finish" ever, just saying. Average is better than wins for a true champ. Perfect example, Kenseth 03. 91. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2011 - 9:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry about that incorrect comment about Bobby Labonte then about him not winning any more than four races in any season. I apologize for that mistake. But it is ironic that the four drivers that I compared Trevor Bayne to had nearly the exact same stats, with each winning between 21 and 23 times, and that point about Bayne being a solid, but unspecatcular driver in comparison to his Roush teammates was the point I was trying make. Bayne likes to drive his car in more consistent fashion, while his teammates (Carl Edwards and Ricky Stenhouse, Jr.) like to hustle their cars. Bayne's style will lead him to be a more consitent finisher, if it hasn't already, while Stenhouse's and Edwards' styles will lead to more wins and laps led, but also to potentially more self-inflicted problems. (This has been proven with Edwards, while it remains to be seen with Stenhouse.) After all, before his illness struck, Bayne was only seven points out of the lead, so his game plan to just finish races was working perfectly. Had he not had his illness, he may have won the NNS championship not having a finish better than third, which is exactly what Elliott Sadler may end up doing if he wins the title. His illness may just have been the best thing that could have happened in the Nationwide Series this year, where the championship is concerned, because his may have been the weakest championship in NASCAR history, if he would have won it, so his illness saved NASCAR from that indignity. It is true that the #!6 NNS car won at charlotte, but Bayne would NEVER have been able to win that race under any circumstances. after all, Matt Kenseth passed Carl Edwards for the win. Bayne would never have been even close to Edwards, and that's a fact. 92. Cooper posted: 07.29.2011 - 10:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm sorry guys, I'm on the other side of the fence. In 2003 Matt Kenseth led a "whopping" 354 laps...This ranked him 11th. Whenever you turned on the race the champion was probably not leading and that's wrong. He had 11 Top 5's. That's awful. And you want to crown this guy as your champion? No Way. The only reason Matt was so "consistent" is his team through pit stops, made a 15th place car into a 7th place car. A change WAS needed after this season. Very frustrating. Jimmie Johnson in 2007 won 10 races. This is extravagant. Very impressive. But so was Jeff Gordon. They both were close in laps led 1300 and 1290. Both of these guys deserved the championship. But the right guy won. I'm developing a new statistic that can measure performance of a season and career with a formula. Hopefully it will become a good tool to measure a career or a seasons value. 93. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2011 - 12:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper: In 2007, Jeff Gordon had an average finish of 7.4, while Jimmie Johnson had an average finish outside the top-10. Kenseth had 25 top-10's, though, while only two other drivers (Newman and Junior )had more than 20, and they were DNF's waiting to happen. Likewise, your logic (while in no way flawed) says that Jeff should have won in 1996 and Bill in 1985 despite inconsistency. You might want to be careful and look up your stats first because some people on here are venomous. Good luck with your stat machine. 94. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2011 - 12:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I referred to Tom Sneva's 1978 USAC campaign in which he won seven poles, finished second six times, and finished third four other times, resulting in him winning the championship without wininng any races the entire season. In that year, Sneva only led 117 laps for the entire 18-race season that year. His lack of running in the lead and not winning is what got him fired and replaced by Bobby Unser for 1979, as Unser was one of hardest chargers in the history of that type of racing. But as for Cooper's saying that the fact that Kenseth only led 354 laps and finishing in the top 5 11 times made him an illegitimate champion, I say nonsense. Because track position was king from 2001-'03, often a driver would run much better than his finishing position would indicate, because pit strategy often worked against him, and because it was nearly impossible to pass in those years, if you got in the middle or back of the pack with a fast car, you were bascially stuck back there with no possibility to move up. Ryan Newman had more wins and top 5 finishes than anyone that year, but how much of that was accomplished with oversized fuel tanks? Because if I remember, that's how he accomplished most of what he did that year. There was even one case where his fuel cell was measured to be 23.2 gallons in one of his wins, well over the limit of 22 gallons of gas back then. You also have to remember that they still raced back to the caution until the fall race at Loudon, so if a driver did get a lap down, it was almost impossible to make it up if the leader didn't want him to, meaning that he could have one of the fastest cars, but if he had a tire problem early in the race, the best he could do would be 20th-25th if he couldn't get that lap back. But, as for Kenseth's season in 2003, his average finishing position of 10.2, while not as high as most championship seasons, was substantially higher than the next-highest average finishing position, which was Jimmie Johnson's 11.4. (A difference in average finishing position of 1.2 per race for an entire seasion is a BIG difference, because that's a total of close to 45 positions over an entire year.) And you have to remember, that late in the season that Kenseth had such a big point lead, that his team was experimenting with things, trying to get him more wins than the one he got at Las Vegas. So if that team hadn't been experimenting, that number of finishing positions, which was about 45, might have been closer to about 70 or 80, which is two full races. 95. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2011 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The only thing that Bobby Labonte's 2000 champion season has over his 1999 season is in points and in average finish." Bobby completed all but NINE LAPS for that entire season (34 races!!!). That doesn't get enough credit IMO. To be that rock solid and still win 4 times (2 major races and 2 other wins at tough tracks Rockingham and Charlotte) is amazing. It doesn't get remembered like it should for a few reasons. First of all, the way he has fallen off the map majorly since 2003 has clouded a lot of people's minds about him. Also, 2000 gets remembered as the year of the Earnhardts. June showed up full time to the most hyped rookie season ever, winning twice early (including the best driving performance of his entire career to this point, his Richmond win) and The Winston before fading badly in the 2nd half. Then you had Big E making a serious bid at mid summer for his record 8th title, ultimately finishing a distant 2nd in points, after 3 and 1/2 years of being good, but not really a Top 5 threat all that often. And of course, with his passing the following February, it is remembered as his last stand, one last reminder that, even at 49 years old, he was somebody you had to reckon with to be champion as long as he was healthy and his cars were in the ballpark. As far as the 2003 season, I definitely think Matt is the deserving champion. Yeah, he only won once and didn't lead many laps, but it was still a hell of a year. A few things need to be considered. First off, it was a down year for Fords. Aside from Matt's Vegas win, they only had two other intermediate victories, both coming from Kurt Busch in the first half of the season. He also won at the short track in Bristol twice, but was incredibly inconsistent and finished outside the Top 10 in points. Biffle won a fuel mileage race at Daytona and DJ won the second race of the year at tire chewing Rockingham. Mark went winless and Jeff Burton had a second straight winless season. Secondly, once they had their huge points lead by mid summer, they began to take it conservatively. Combine that with the overall downturn of the Fords in the 2nd half, and I think Matt's 1 win season makes sense. He still had the most Top 10s that year and was solid as a rock. Were it not for JJ's incredible late season run (which served as a launch point for a historic run of wins and eventually championships), Matt would have clinched with two races still to go. He barely had to start at Rockingham to clinch it there. I don't see how that isn't your champion. I agree that there needs to be a balance that rewards both winning, front running, AND consistency. Again, using 2003 as an example, does anyone really think Newman should have been champion that year? Despite him winning the most races by far? I do think consistency is rewarded a little too much, but there needs to be a balance. 96. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2011 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) BTW, we have to wait to watch Travis Pastrana's inevitable flop in NASCAR begin after he broke his foot practicing for the X Games. As ESPN constantly reminded us, he was going to have a (wait for it.... wait for it....) HISTORIC weekend where he competed in 3 different events in 3 nights, called the "Pastranathon" (seriously?). They even made commercials and everything. But then he broke his foot practicing. I hate that Travis got injured, I don't dislike him personally and I don't wish injury on anyone except the worst criminals, but it is kinda fun watching an ESPN gimmick blow up in their faces before it even starts. 97. Cooper posted: 07.29.2011 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The champion needs to lead laps. Period. Matt Kenseth's 354 is a record low for a champion in the Modern Era. (Possibly ever) Average finish is a BS stat. 15th,15th,15th is more impressive than 1st,5th,38th? No way. Get that garbage out of here. And 2001-2003 no passing? Are you kidding me. This was a period in time where great teams and drivers would qualify sub 30 regularly and basically get to the front at will. I have the stats to back this up as well. This is a flat out lie on your part. You know why NASCAR was the most popular at this time...Because it was ultra competitive and passing was easy. I think your confusing 2001-2003 with 2009-2011. Races won by driver with 30th or worse starting position: 2001-4 2002-4 2003-3 2009-3 2010-1 2011-1 (So far) Yeah those 11 drivers in 01,02,03 really had trouble passing eh? Complete and udder garbage CJ. Please go on Youtube and watch some of those races. 98. Cooper posted: 07.29.2011 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "95. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.11 - 1:04 pm" Ryan Newman had a more impressive season than Matt Kenseth. That doesn't mean Matt didn't deserve to win it, but Matt wasn't that impressive. I'm sorry. I put a huge value on winning races and I'm glad NASCAR has as well. But according to CJ it was "impossible" to pass. I guess that's why NASCAR's worst qualifier was able to win the championship. 99. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2011 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Right now, you have the exact same problem when it comes to passing that you do now, so I'm not saying that you can't pass, especially late in races, I'm just saying that it's extraordinarily diifcult. Why do you think there were 19 winners in 2001, and only slightly lower totals in 2002 and '03? As for Newman, yes he DID have numbers that popped out, but before he started to perform at a championship level, he was about 27th in points hedaing to the Coca-Cola 600, if I remember right? As for Kenseth being able to pass when it was extremely difficult to do so. Well, it isn't when you have a pit crew that was so much better than anyone else's. That where he did a majority of his passing. As for putting a high emphasis on winning. Well you can't put too much emphasis on it, because then it would promote cheating, and that would be terrible. Chad Knaus has gooten away with that for many years, and I believe that Matt Borland, Newman's crew chief at the time, was doing it as well. As I have stated, Newman was doing a lot of his winning that year due to "fuel mileage", but he was actually doing that because his car had oversized fuel cells for much of that season. I also stated that after one race that Newman's fuel cell held about 23.2 gallons of gas, about 1.2 gallons over the legal limit. Then there was that race at Texas where he beat a dominant Bill Elliott by running 78 laps on his final tank of gas. That's right, 78 laps, or 117 miles on a single tank of gas without restrictor plates. Pit strategy was what was jumbling the finishing order of many of those races between 2001-'03, much like it is today. Passing was just as difficult then as it is now. Why do you think that Rusty Wallace led a group of drivers that wanted to see a softer compuond tire for 2004? Because HE thought it had become next-to-impossible to pass on the track. There were, of course, exceptions like there are now, but 2001-'03 was a period where passing was at a premium, just like it is now. And I don't think the lack of passing is going to change any time soon. After all, it took a change in tire compound to increase the amount of passing, and because of the tire debacle at Indy in 2008, as well as the near-disaster regarding tires at Bristol earlier this year (the tires that were originally goung to be run there did exactly the same thing as the tires that were run at Indy in 2008 did before they NASCAR and Goodyear changed the tires), I don't see NASCAR and Goodyear going to a softer tire compound any time soon for exactly that reason. They'd rather be safe than sorry. NASCAR and Goodyear would rather risk fuel mileage and strategy races than risking a series of tire blowouts in each race, because that puts the safety of the competitors at risk. 100. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2011 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Cooper, as for your point about not having as many drivers coming from a starting position of 30th or worse to win races in the last three years as there were from 2001-'03. Remember, they had many more competitve cars and teams then, and there were very few start-and-parks, if any, if I remember right. That meant virtually the entire 43-car field intended to run the distance, so there were more cars at the back capable of winning. Now, with up to eight cars planning to start-and-park in a particular race, there just aren't as many cars even planning to run the distance, possibly as few as 35 or 36, instead of 43, meaning that there are fewer competitve cars starting at the back in each race, so that particular point, in my opinion, is completely invalidated by the start-and-parks you have today. With the start-and-parks you have today, you may have to revise that to those coming from 25th or worse to win the races today. 101. Cooper posted: 07.29.2011 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "99. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.11 - 2:45 pm" You make some good points, but I still refuse to believe that passing was "hard". There's plenty of races from 01/02/03 on Youtube and if you watch these races it was not as hard as you've made it to be. I'm not sure when you started watching NASCAR, but maybe the difference in opinion is related to perception. 2001 in my opinion had more passing than any other year I've watched. Average Starting Position for winner: 2001: 12.38 2002: 14.08 2003: 8.97 2004: 10.89 2005: 10.00 2006: 8.47 2007: 11.83 2008: 8.00 2009: 11.14 2010: 9.06 So in actuality, we're both correct. 2003 saw a big reduction in passing. Most winners started in the front and stayed there. But as I said before 2001 and 2002 still stand as the two easiest years to pass. The winners in 2002 came from an average starting position of 14th. Incredible. Whatever happened in 2003 that limited the passing I'm not too sure about... Basically the only different ground we stand on is the value of winning vs. the value of consistency. And this is a debate that's been going on in NASCAR since the development of the point system. 102. Cooper posted: 07.29.2011 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "100. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.11 - 2:53 pm" Very True. 103. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2011 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, I started watching NASCAR in 1989, and I watched just about all those races from 2001-'03. You can't base your point just on where a driver started a race, simply because a driver could, with a fast car, simply run 12th-15th all day, use the right pit strategy to get up front, and then once he gets up there, his car becomes faster just by being up front. Two cases in point are the 2001 spring race at Bristol, where Elliott Sadler, by using pit stategy, became the last (and probably final) driver to win a race for the Wood Brothers based on what he was able to do in the race on his own. Sadler started that race about 37th. The following year, Kurt Busch did the same thing in the fall race at Martinsville, winning from the 36th position. but that was because Jimmy Fennig, his crew chief, made a good pit call and nobody could pass him after that. Teams realized how hard it was to pass opn the track, so the two-tire pit stop under caution became a shortcut to passing up to about 10 cars on pit road. Those were spots they didn't have to make up on the track. If you recall, Ryan Newman won the most recent race on the Cup circiut, and a large reason for that was that was that his crew only changed left side tires once during the entire race. As for the points structure, I'll say it again. The fact that the difference between second and third is the same as the difference between finishig 42nd and 43rd is an abomination. If you're running, say, fourth late in the race and have the third-place car in front of you, with the current points structure, it would be foolish to take a chance on finishing third when you have fourth-place points, which is only one fewer locked up. But under the previous points structure, it actually made every position, especially those in the top ten worth racing for, and it simply doesn't make sense to race for a position in the top ten today. For those that have already forgotten, the win used to pay 190 points with the automatic five-point bonus for leading the race you would get if you won, but the difference between second and sixth was five per position. The difference between sitxh-seventh and 11th was four points per position, and the difference for the balance of the field was three points per position. The only thing about the current points structure that makes sense is the automatic three-point boost for winning. Except for the fact that positions at the bottom of the finishing order get basically the same number of points, nothing else about the points structure used today makes any sense at all. That's why you could get a NNS champion with no finish higher than third, and only one finish that high, as well as the fact that James Buescher, despite missing one race (Phoenix), has climbed all the way to third in points, despite no finish higher than fourth. And until more points are rewarded for ALL the leading finishers, there may be more injustices like this in the future. Let's just hope that Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. wins the NNS championship, and either Johnny Sauter or Austin Dillon win the Truck Series championship this year to keep that from happening. 104. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2011 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to mention that, often times, the crew chiefs would run the race like you would at a road course, and figure out what the furthest back from the finish would be for them to pit and still be able to make it to the finish, and make their final pit stop at the first opportunity. I think some of the crew chiefs today may, in fact, be revisiting that thought process, though with the smaller fuel cells, and the newer fuel, which is making less mileage, that you can't go anywhere near back as far from the finish and make that your final stop. Then there's the GWC, which didn't come into the Cup series until 2004, with the first such finish in a Cup race being the 2004 Brickyard 400. And now with a possible three GWC attempts, that restricts the distance a crew chief is willing to take that particular tactic even more. 105. Cooper posted: 07.29.2011 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "103. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.11 - 3:37 pm" I figured you were a long time fan. I was never able to see the days of NASCAR where Aerodynamics was a small factor. The era in which I believe had lots of passing and action, is nothing compared to the eras you have watched. From my point of view '01/'02 is the high in action and entertainment where it might be your low. I think we can agree that since the early 00's the action and racing have not been the same. It's been declining up until this year. (This year has actually been very entertaining.) 106. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2011 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would revise that to about 2006 or '07. I thought the racing was pretty good in 2004, 2005, and part of '06 overall. But I think the racing went kind-of downhill, beginning in the second half of 2006 to right now. And by the way, the racing at Daytona was basically terrible most of the time from 1995 through 2007, with a couple of exceptions, mainly being 1996 (Daytona 500) and 2001, though NASCAR crafted rules specifically for the 2001 season, which turned out to be disastrous overall, even though the competition was incredible. By the way, I believe the best restrictor plate racing took in 1993 and '94, when you could pass, the field could split up, there was little to no blocking, and there was no trickery involved, like bump-drafting (which I believe was used to counter the excessive blocking and the "out of bounds" line) and two-car "pod" racing. Sure there were some great moments at Daytona from 1995-'07, but the racing overall was terrible. 107. 00andJoe posted: 08.01.2011 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #04 sponsor: Rimz One / BBI Waste Disposal/ Bestway 108. Jon posted: 08.03.2011 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) now that news has come out of nashville that they won't be seeking nationwide/trucks dates next year, this is likely the last nascar event at the track. wonder what will become of it? indycar hasn't been here in a while either so what other events will allow this place maintain itself year after year? 109. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 12:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #46 Brett Rowe Out using fastest 43: #89 Morgan Shepherd 110. chris o posted: 07.03.2012 - 1:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Never really liked this track, and now that it is closed, maybe BGN and/or the truck series will back to the nashville speedway, it would be nice but don't see it happening. 111. Windows Millennium Edition posted: 03.13.2016 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew: WD|Justin Ashburn|05|31-W Insulation|Wayne Day|Chevrolet 112. TheDewCrew posted: 06.02.2020 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, this was the final race at Nashville Superspeedway. But, it's expected that Nashville will return to NASCAR in the Cup Series no less, in place of a Dover race. This isn't confirmed yet though, but an announcement should be made in the upcoming days. Not expecting this 113. KentuckyOffroadRider posted: 06.02.2020 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Last time NASCAR raced at this boring Nashville track, Reed Sorenson was the points leader. I never knew he led the point standings in the Xfinity series 114. RaceFanX posted: 06.03.2020 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was the last major race at Nashville Superspeedway for a decade. The Cup Series will be racing here in 2021, reviving the track. 115. TeamDCRfan posted: 12.16.2020 - 7:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its been announced that Pastor Joe Nelms, who gave that awesome Ricky Bobby esque prayer at this race, will do the invocation for the Cup race next year 116. JimDavis posted: 12.16.2020 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Its been announced that Pastor Joe Nelms, who gave that awesome Ricky Bobby esque prayer at this race, will do the invocation for the Cup race next year" Is this the guy that thanked God for his smoking hot wife? That was great. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: