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  *Comments on the 2008 Ford 400:*
  View the most recent comment <#149> | Post a comment <#post>


  1.   petty43 posted:
  11.16.2008 - 8:28 pm
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congrats to jimmie and his team. they are clearly the only team who can
handle the pressure of the chase without any mistakes. no reason to
think they wont win it all for another 3 years in a row!!!!!!!!


  2.   petty43 posted:
  11.16.2008 - 8:29 pm
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of course if they do there will be no more fans in nascar.


  3.   petty43 posted:
  11.16.2008 - 8:33 pm
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i really do not understand why fans hate him so. he has never done
ANYTHING questionable on the track or off, I like that he just lets his
championships speak for themselves, o well boo hoo for carl he just gets
so close now twice and yet cannot get over the hump, he might be the
only guy who can challenge the 48 but he has to learn to work with his
teammates like jj does. i think he is a tool anyway. i am tired of his
whole life is so great if you just work your butt off act, just be
honest carl you hate getting beat by the 48 hate and show some emotion,
like rusty wallace and DW used to when dale sr was whopping their butts


  4.   Ryan D posted:
  11.16.2008 - 8:54 pm
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Congrats on JJ's third championship in a row!. Good to see McMurray have
another good run! Nice job by Kahne, Kvapil and Mears. Stewarts last
ride in the #20


  5.   18fan posted:
  11.16.2008 - 9:12 pm
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I watched the first 60 laps and had to go somewhere. Kenseth complained
about letting Carl lead because he said they never give it back to me.
Carl once again proves he can't win with a fast car because the last two
race that he dominated he had to win on fuel mileage because Bob Osborne
can't make good calls with a dominant car. Jimmie won the title. If
there wasn't a chase Carl would have won the title. Kyle could not buy a
break in the chase as he was third with three laps to go and finished
19th. Same can be said for Kenseth who was leading with three to go and
finished 25th. He and Gordon didn't win this year along with Harvick.
All had winning streaks of at least five years. First year without a win
for Gordon since 1993. Also he first season without two wins since 1993.
On a different note, does anybody know how the points system worked in
1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, and 1973.


  6.   18fan posted:
  11.16.2008 - 9:40 pm
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Some other things I forgot to mention. This was Kyle's 150th career
start. Tony had one of the best cars but finished 9th in his last race
in the #20. Regan Smith will probably win rookie of the year simply by
Hornish's DNQ. A.J. ran well again in the 10 car. Reed might be able to
do well if the car runs like it is right now. Vickers ran the 84 and got
it ahead of the 47 of Ambrose and into the top-35. Another great run by
McMurray. I expect a lot form him next year. A.J. should get the 41
because it might be better with EGR and he is way more talented than
Reed. Interesting, Kurt finished second last week and last this week.
Last race for the following drivers in their current cars, not teams:
Clint Bowyer(5th)
Casey Mears(8th)
Tony Stewart(9th)
A.J. Allmendinger(11th)
Bill Elliott?(12th)
Scott Riggs(14th)
Juan Pablo Montoya, last with Ganassi(17th)
Ryan Newman(21st)
Paul Menard(30th)
Reed Sorenson(31st)
Regan Smith(34th) Will not be back because of EGR unless he drives the 41
Tony Raines(37th).


  7.   kirkyal posted:
  11.16.2008 - 10:05 pm
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Jimmie Johnson! No matter what you think about him, the chase etc, he is
one awesome driver! Massive congrats to him! Will go down as one of the
all time greats!

Also Carl Edwards he is gonna be champion soon, great season for him!!

Look out for Ragan next year, thats my pick!

Well done Jimmie!


  8.   Spen posted:
  11.16.2008 - 10:29 pm
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18fan: From '69-71 the point system worked like this: for half-mile or
shorter race tracks, the winner got fifty points, with a one-point drop
for every other car. For tracks half-mile to one mile in length, the
winner recived one-hundred points, with a two-point drop for everyone
else. And for tracks longer than a mile, one-hundred and fifty points to
the winner, with a three point drop. Not sure about the other years; I
didn't pay much attention to the points race at the time. I believe the
information can be found on Wikipedia.

And in all probability, this will not be Bill's last race in the #21. (I
hope not, anyway. I'd like to see him join the eight-hundred start club.)


  9.   Bronco posted:
  11.16.2008 - 10:33 pm
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The Cha$e claims another victim, this time Carl Edwards. Imagine Carl
leading the race with Jimmie in 15th, and Carl praying his fuel would
last so that he could win a championship, that's some real drama, not
this artificial Cha$e crap.

I'm pretty disappointed with Dale Jr. There was so much hype about him
changing teams, and when he dominated Speedweeks I thought we'd be
seeing a repeat of his strong 2004 season. Instead his season started
off strong, and then pretty much nosedived after Michigan which was only
a fuel mileage win. And now he finished the Cha$e dead last. He led the
4th highest number of laps this season and yet his team couldn't turn
that into wins.

Tony's last ride in the Home Depot machine and he finishes with a solid
top 10. It's going to be weird seeing not seeing Tony and Home Depot,
like it was with Dale Jr. and Budweiser.

Great runs for Riggs, Mears, Kvapil, and McMurray scores three straight
third place finishes. AJ once again beat Sadler for the fifth week in a
row and finishes strong. Also Awesome Bill proves he still has his
Homestead magic with a great finish.

It's unfortunate that Jimmie gets to tie Cale's record because of how
stupid the points system is. A champion is the best guy over a season,
period.

The first season with the new car proved to be a flop I think. It was
supposed to save teams money, create parity and improve racing. However
teams are going broke, 3 drivers won 2/3 of the races and it seems like
most races are determined by clean air instead of racing.

Congrats to Regan Smith on winning ROTY, hopefully he will be back next
year.


  10.   neckcar posted:
  11.16.2008 - 10:49 pm
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congrats to carl.. the actual champion under real points


  11.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.16.2008 - 11:29 pm
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For the second time in 3 weeks, Carl has the dominant car but has to
save fuel big time to win. Darrell Waltrip eat your heart out. We may
have a new master at saving gas. Great ability by Bob to recognize they
need to save fuel and get Carl to save before it is too late. They will
be a force to be reckoned with for many years to come.

Overall, this ends a very flat year for the Sprint Cup. Can you imagine
the drama if there had been no Chase? Carl's fuel gamble would have been
for the championship, which he would have won. Jimmie would have had to
try to save fuel too.

NASCAR has just sucked all the life out of this wondeful sport. 3
drivers win 2/3 of the races. Whoever gets out front in the COT just
leaves everyone. Very few exciting races. I really hope they make
changes to bring this sport back. Banning testing will help I think. The
reason the 48 team won is because they threw so much money at it and
tested everywhere they could. Otherwise Roush would have lapped them.

But seriously, something needs to give. This has always been my #1 sport
to watch by a large margain, but I am so relieved that this season is
over. For the last 2 months I just wanted it to end. Hell, coming here
to discuss the races has been the most exciting part for me. I hope to
talk to you guys again next season. It has been a blast. I just wish we
had something better to talk about.

On a sad note, this following week will see MANY crew members laid off.
I just hate that for them. They gave their careers to NASCAR, not to
mention their hearts and souls. They sacrificed family time to follow
this sport, and now they will be enemployed. NASCAR is just paying for
growing too fast. They made way too many short sighted decisions, and it
is costing the heart and soul of this sport. Typical business I guess.


  12.   Kit posted:
  11.16.2008 - 11:34 pm
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[quote]he has never done ANYTHING questionable on the track or off, I
like that he just lets his championships speak for themselves[/quote]

He's a Jeff Gordon clone and a corporate yes man. He's a very boring
addition to a sport that's already getting boring enough as it is.

And guess what? With the traditional point system, this season would
have been MORE EXCITING to watch. And without the COT (which does not
belong in STOCK CAR racing), we would have had much better racing to watch.

From here on out, all I care about is the truck series. The Cup series
is a snoozefest.


  13.   99 Carl posted:
  11.16.2008 - 11:34 pm
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Even though Jeff Gordon, Matt Kenseth, and Kevin Harvick didn't win at
all this year, this was the first year in a long time that there was not
a first time winner for a season.


  14.   Kit posted:
  11.16.2008 - 11:36 pm
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Oh, and I don't want to hear about Jimmie Johnson accomplishing
something that only Cale Yarborough could do. Cale won under an entirely
different points system, one which did not penalize drivers for dominant
performance (like Jeff Gordon last year).


  15.   18fan posted:
  11.17.2008 - 1:27 am
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I have no idea what happened to Kyle. I think he ran out of gas because
ABC( whose broadcasts are just as bad as TNT with an equally bad
play-by-play announcer)showed him passing Ragan with like 2 to go and
then they didn't mention him and he finished 19th, a lap down.
Amazingly, that is Kyle's best finish at Homestead. He really sucks at
Homestead, but it is a good track with good racing.


  16.   Steve posted:
  11.17.2008 - 1:39 am
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Congrats to JJ for Cup number 3!

Seriously, REGAN SMITH is ROtY??? Not that there was much competition.
Carpentier lost his ride, Villeneuve and Franchitti lost sponsorship,
and Hornish DNQ at a track he won at 4 1/2 years ago.

Great result for Kvapil, Allmendinger, and Elliott!!! Go Awesome Bill!!!


  17.   Zed_3_88fan4eva posted:
  11.17.2008 - 1:57 am
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Well I have to give props to Johnson. Im not a big fan of him but I have
top tip my cap to Jimmie and the entire 48 team

Great run for Elliott showing he can still run if he had somewhat decent
equipment. Tony Stewart in his final ride for Gibbs comes home a
respectable 9th and Jamie McMurray and Travis Kvapil are going to be the
two dark-horses for 09' And maybe Allmendinger might have a good 09'

As for 2008

I remember saying after the 500 that Reed Sorenson was going to have a
breakout season.....wrong lol not even top 20 in points.

Am I the only one dissapointed about Jr.'s season...I know it was a good
year but I guess I was expecting a little more idk.

Micheal McDowell has taken Steven Wallace's place as the most dangerous
"driver" on the race track.

Shrub has an amazing first 26 races but to my delight chokes on his own
ass in the chase

First full year of COT yields half decent racing.

Goodyear sucks

Never woulda thought Gordon and Kenseth would go winless in a year
especially the year gordon came off of.

Teresa finally unloads her late husbands team.....feel bad for taking
her side awhile ago.

For 2009
I think Mark Martin will finally win his championchip unless someone
screws him outta it.

I think Jr will pull off a top 5 year next year with 2-3 wins

David Ragan and Jamie McMurray will make the chase with all of their
Roush temates with Travis Kvapil (if yates can get a good sponser)
missing the chase by very little. Im also looking at AJ Allmendinger
pulling off a top 20 pts season with maybe a win at one of the road
courses. Also Logano will probably only manage a top 20 season.

JJ Yeley and Micheal McDowell still wont have rides.

Kyle Busch will still be hated

And Brian France will still have his head up his ass

I know im forgeting somethin but ill end it here. Cant wait for Daytona
in Feburary or January for testing.


  18.   Kit posted:
  11.17.2008 - 3:27 am
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Could someone explain to me what it means to win a championship in the
Cup Series? I thought it meant the driver with the best season relative
to others, but apparently not:

Carl Edwards
9 wins
19 top 5s
27 top 10s
1 pole
9.5 average finish

Jimmie Johnson
7 wins
15 top 5s
22 top 10s
6 poles
10.5 average finish

The ONLY category that Johnson beats Edwards in is in poles.

So what in the world is the point of the championship if it does not
reward the driver and the team who performed the best in the season?

Clearly Jimmie Johnson and the #48 were not the best team of the season.


  19.   Mark O. posted:
  11.17.2008 - 6:25 am
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Finishing 34th and winning Rookie of the Race honors is pathetic. No one
should have been awarded the prize...I don't believe a single top 10 was
scored by a rookie this year.

Hell of a run by A.J. Allmendinger...remind me why he got canned by Red
Bull?


  20.   Anonymous posted:
  11.17.2008 - 7:51 am
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Good job Jimmie Next year Carl Edwards will win the title


  21.   DaleJrFan17 posted:
  11.17.2008 - 8:50 am
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Didnt even bother watching this. Grats Carl for winning the race and the
Championship!


  22.   the cha$e posted:
  11.17.2008 - 12:27 pm
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the chase strikes out finally with 3 failures out of 5, to produce a
champion that matches the ACTUAL Champ. I remeber in 05 and 06 all the
hickcar writers, and pundits were saying that the CHA$E was money cause
"if we the viewers would notice, the real championship and fake one were
almost always gonna be won by the same dude, showing us that if you were
the best driver all year long, you would still win out at the end."
Wrong NECKAR. Wow, know i got to look at JJ 3 time Champ, and THE CARL a
ZERO Time champ. And of course Gordon with only 4. This is BS. JJ your 1
time Champ.. OOOOPPPPPSSSS... I measn 3... IN A ROWWWW! Long live
Hickcar and it's cheerleaders. Long live the CHA$E, and The RACE to THE
ChA$e and whatever. NASCAR SUCKS


  23.   the cha$e posted:
  11.17.2008 - 12:31 pm
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I am sure there happy with the result they get to pedal though cause now
NASTYCAR gets to Hawk us THE GREATEST DRIVER OF ALLTIME--------JJ!!!!!
JUST like early in the year we were supposed to beleive Kyle Busch was
having the greates season ever... Some In the press even went as far as
to declare this as a fact, and would make silly statements to how "this
was better that Gordon in 98, already and were only half way through
it!!!! See regardless of were his season ends up it's better you'll
see!!!" EPIC FAIL


  24.   the cha$e posted:
  11.17.2008 - 12:32 pm
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Good job Jimmie Next year Carl Edwards will win the title
| 11.17.08 - 7:51 am


HE won it already... This year


  25.   29PennzoilChevy09 posted:
  11.17.2008 - 12:34 pm
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A terrible end to a terrible season. Thankfully Harvick finished second,
and I can go into the winter feeling like they have a chance at the
championship after finishing 4th in the points this season despite being
winless.


  26.   the cha$e posted:
  11.17.2008 - 12:36 pm
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Why didn't we hear all the Arguments that were used last year to justify
JJ beating Gordon even though he lost by over 200... You all remember
the arguments used about how "Johnson is the real CHamp cause he won
more races!!!!!" Guess since this year the guy with less wins is champ,
the same excuse don't fly... Long Live TAXICABCAR...
YEEEEEEHHHHHAWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!


  27.   tyme posted:
  11.17.2008 - 7:13 pm
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I am glad I stopped watching a month ago. Saved me a lot of time that
would have just been wasted on nothing. What a terrible season, NASCAR
should be ashamed of themselves. The only NASCAR series I'm watching
next year is the trucks and maybe nationwide for humour. Thanks Brian
France.


  28.   petty43 posted:
  11.17.2008 - 9:09 pm
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for those who wish to complain that carl would have won by 16 points,
(under old system)they should remember also that if carl had not wrecked
himself and his teammates at talladega he WOULD be champion!!!!!!!!!!
also he finished 30th at lowes the next week, on a 1.5 mile track no
less, the very kind of track he dominated all year long. he still needs
to develop his plate track finishes, road courses, and martinsville to
compete with jimmie.


  29.   A *TRUE* NASCAR Fan posted:
  11.17.2008 - 9:26 pm
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Anyone who says "thats it im not watchin NA$CAR anymore" is full of
feces, plain and simple. Every damn one of you will be watching come
Daytona and you know it. None of us will ever change NASCAR and there's
nothing we can do about it, so just shut up and watch. Boo hoo, your
favorite driver didn't win, tough crap. Go tell your mommy and maybe
she'll give you milk and cookies.


  30.   Hickcar posted:
  11.17.2008 - 11:15 pm
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for those who wish to complain that carl would have won by 16 points,
(under old system)they should remember also that if carl had not wrecked
himself and his teammates at talladega he WOULD be champion!!!!!!!!!!
also he finished 30th at lowes the next week, on a 1.5 mile track no
less, the very kind of track he dominated all year long. he still needs
to develop his plate track finishes, road courses, and martinsville to
compete with jimmie.
petty43 | 11.17.08 - 9:09 pm


BS... He's better on road courses, and equal on the others.... JJ's just
better on the coookie cutters that require no skill, but make up 95% of
the schedule


  31.   Kit posted:
  11.18.2008 - 1:33 am
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"if carl had not wrecked himself"

No, if we had an actual points system that rewards the driver with the
best season, Carl would be champion. Carl had a better 2008 season than
Jimmie.

"Anyone who says "thats it im not watchin NA$CAR anymore" is full of
feces, plain and simple."

Actually, I don't even remember the last time I saw an actual Cup race
on TV, maybe a few months ago. I just hear about them on this site and
tidbits on the news. Only series I care to sit down and watch is the
truck series.

"None of us will ever change NASCAR and there's nothing we can do about
it, so just shut up and watch."

There is something we can do about it: quit watching it and spending
money on it. Considering that most of my favorite drivers are either
retired or part-timers, that is very easy for me to do.


  32.   Bronco posted:
  11.18.2008 - 2:18 am
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I have to say, I think the ESPN telecasts were a lot better than last
year for some reason. Probably cause they have a good combination with
the guys in the studio and the booth. Can't wait for FOX next year, with
DW's funny ways and Larry Mac's southern accent.

A few more things. Since they expanded the schedule to 36 races, Carl's
27 top 10 this year ranks only second to Jeff's 30 from last year. Also
impressive was how he owned the 1.5 and 2 mile tracks this year.

I wonder how Daytona in 2009 is going to look. We're going to see a lot
of these current drivers disappear I bet...


  33.   Jesse posted:
  11.18.2008 - 2:41 am
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Another close points race utterly ruined by the chase. I actually
stopped watching several months ago which I am now very thankful for.


  34.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.18.2008 - 12:14 pm
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I don't want to hear anyone comparing Cale Yarborough's 3peat to
Jimmie's. Jimmie would not have won it the last two years were it not
for the phony Chase. Cale was the best for three consecutive SEASONS,
Jimmie was the best for 3 consecutive 10 race stretches. No small feat,
but still not as impressive.

I just hate this chase system. It was made to "create excitement and
drama", but that drama is totally fake. Football games would be more
exciting if they reset the score 10-10 at the beginning of each game,
but they don't Why? Because that would be phony and contrived. It is
obvious that Brian France and the suits in NASCAR think we are idiots.
Do they really think we will be excited when they are pulling strings
and artificially tightening things. It just takes the air out of our sails.

Other sports have playoffs because they need them (except college
football). Every week different teams play different opponents in
different locations in different conditions. One team may have a better
record, but they may have had an easier schedule. In NASCAR every team
is in the same location every week dealing with the same conditions. Did
you blow a tire at Indy this year? Well guess what, everyone dealt with
the exact same circumstances as you. So there is no need for it.

And finally, perhaps the thing that gets my blood boiling the most, I
don't want to hear "Jimmie dealt with much tougher competition than Cale."

BULL

SHIT

Yes there are more cars that run the whole schedule, but let me ask
this: Would you rather race in a 5 car race against David Pearson,
Richard Petty, Bobby Allison, and Darrell Waltrip or would you want to
race against this current 43 car field? I'd rather race today if I
wanted to win. This is another thing NASCAR needs to realize, depth
isn't very important if the top guys are great. Who cares if 35 cars
finish on the lead lap if the battle for the lead is totally
uncompetitive? That is the case over 30 times a year currently. Look at
the 1976 Daytona 500, Richard and David were the only two cars that
finished on the lead lap (I know technically Richard didn't finish but
you get my point). I don't care if 12 drivers have a good shot at the
championsip with 10races left, I want 2 drivers to be really close with
1 race left. Look at the Truck Series. Totally awesome. NASCAR robbed us
of that this year.


  35.   petty43 posted:
  11.18.2008 - 10:30 pm
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nascar should keep the chase but inmprove the cot, the races are boring
and really that is what i enjoy the most, the title is great but you
only care for 3 months and then it is back to racing, at daytona. the
cot races are so predictable postions 1 thru 10 get spaced out after a
couple laps and the best racing on the track is for 12 place or you can
watch the "donkeys" in the back as biffle likes to call them.
first i would rather see the racing improve and then fix the points.
whether he would have won 3 titles in a row or not the fact that jimmie
has already won 40 races is still very remarkable, i think it is more
impressive than the 3 cups anyways and we should all hope our favorite
drivers can someday reach that level, because right he is in a league of
his own. also if he is nascars biggest star, then that is better than
having a thug like kobe or randy moss, or some overpaid meathead like
arod. at least jimmie is not a piece of $#!T and he earns his multi
million dollars on the track with his performancce rather than having
handed to him.


  36.   Kit posted:
  11.19.2008 - 2:28 pm
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petty43, the chase is a joke and it doesn't reward the driver with the
best season. What's the point of racing if you don't have to be the best
racer of the season to win the championship? It's like letting the
third-place car win the race.

The COT doesn't belong in stock car racing.


  37.   Buster posted:
  11.19.2008 - 4:07 pm
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y not 1994?


  38.   Anonymous posted:
  11.20.2008 - 1:48 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Last race for the Carl Edwards Office Depot pair, they had a tremendous
run together. Wish Office Depot was staying because I don't really like
the look of the Aflac car.

Last race for AT&T in NASCAR, after being involved in the sport as
Bellsouth and Cingular. NASCAR/Nextel chased out a longtime sponsor of
the sport, good job.

Last race for Cheerios and the 43 car. They never had much of a run,
suprised they didn't leave sooner.

Speaking of Cheerios, this race marks the fifth anniversary of Bobby
Labonte's last win. Given the fact that he's driving a Petty Dodge
without sponsorship for some reason I don't think we'll ever see him win
again.


  39.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.20.2008 - 3:19 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Last race for AT&T in NASCAR, after being involved in the sport as
Bellsouth and Cingular. NASCAR/Nextel chased out a longtime sponsor of
the sport, good job."

Thanks for pointing that out, that is something that has really
disgusted me, something that NASCAR and Sprint should be extremely
ashamed of themselves for. In today's economic situation to just chase a
sponsor like that out is inexcusable. If AT&T would have stayed with
Burton, which they wanted to do, CAT would have sponsored some other
team, meaning less people get layed off and one more competitive car.
They should be protecting THEIR series, but they are just hurting it. I
will NEVER be a Sprint customer.

Besides, they wouldn't allow Cingular to rebrand as AT&T, but guess
what: THE SPRINT CUP SERIES IS REBRANDED FROM THE NEXTEL CUP!!! What a
bunch of hypocrites and idiots. That is why NASCAR is in the crapper,
they have people like that running the show. Just pathetic.

Petty43, I jumped in on the "weakest championship" debate on the 2007
Homestead page.


  40.   petty43 posted:
  11.20.2008 - 10:31 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

this post is targeted towards daleearnhardtsrfanforever so others may
want to pass it by, as it will probably get quite long.


this post is a response to the statement made on nov 18. I first off
must say that i really respect and appreciate MOST of the contributions
that you make here. and i to will always be a fan of the #3. but to
quote you comparing Jimmie johnsons 3 peat and cale's 3 peat is not
bull@^#*.

my first point is this....ALL sports have become more....much much more
competitive since the late 70's. that is why no one will ever win 5
world series in a row like the 50's yankees or no one will 8 peat again
like the celtics and no one will ever win 4 super bowls in 6 years again
like the 70's steelers or win 7 straight national titles like UCLA mens
basketball. In fact Jimmie's 3 peat is the only one other than Jordan's
bulls and the late 90's yankees, since cale's so show some respect.
whether you like the chase or not the odds of anybody winning 3 in a row
are very low, i will wager right now, that no one repeats that feat for
at least 25 years.

ok back to the racing argument. If i understand you correctly you are
arguing that just because nascar is more competitive now than it was in
the late 70's does not mean that jimmie's 3 peat is comparble to cale's.
I believe that you surmise that racing against pearson petty allison and
dw then was more challenging then winning against today's drivers. well
take it from an old fan, your argument MAY NOT be quite so strong.

First off cale pulled his 3 peat with junior johnson racing which from
1972 to 1992 was by far the best team in nascar, especially from 1973 to
1983. that was the entire span of cale's time there.from 1972 to 1992
Junior's 11 car finished first 6 times in points second 7 times and
third thru fifth another 5 times. that leaves only 3 finishes outside of
the top 5, two of those were affected by driver injuries. cale should
have won the title in 1973 over benny and if pearson and the woods had
run the full campaign in 76 pearson would have won that champioship by
about 100 points. to figure this just take drivers points divide by
races run and you get an average, multiply that by 30 since there were
30 races in 1976. so you see there is some controversary around cale's
first title. david pearson and the woods sat out 8 races 8!!!!! in fact
they sat out 8 races in 77 and 78 as well, so they were no threat to
beat junior and cale.

the next best team at that time was petty enterprises, but after 1975
they took a huge dive. just look at richards stats, hell in 1978 he did
not even win a race for the first time since 1959!!!! he led far fewer
laps from 76 thru 78 and it was because the petty's lost the factory
support and after a couple years without it, they finally came back down
from the high level they sustained from 1964 to 1972.

Bobby Allison raced for 3 different teams from 76 to 78. in 76 he raced
for penske and that team was not very good. in 77 he raced for his own
team same results, in fact from 76 to 77 bobby did not win a single race
and he led about 3500 fewer laps than cale, clearly he was also not a
factor to beat cale for the title. or even win races. in 78 bobby drove
for bud moore, who he did not get along with {imagine that}, he did win
5 races and led about half as many laps as cale, and finished a distant
(500 plus points) 2nd to cale and junior.

then there is DW. during 76 to 78 dw was a brash young inexperienced
driver with a relativley young team that was growing. he was a lot like
KB is now. he had a lot of talent but could not contain it to save his
life and his team was about half as good as junior's during that span.
in 76 he was no threat to cale at all, and in 77 and 78 he finished
about 500 or more points behind cale each year with 6 wins a piece,
while cale won 19 races. Cale at that time was just much better with a
much better team. that team later helped dw get what digard could not
get him, a title.

the only other contender was lg dewitt and benny parsons, who beat cale
and junior in 73 for the cup. they were at best a lot like RCR is today,
a former championship team that really was not able to beat the elite
teams like junior and the wood's or petty's. benny was not half the
driver that cale was, and L.G. was a schill of what junior's team was.

in fact at that time dewitt and the petty's were the only other teams
racing that had won cups in the past. other elite teams like
holman-moody and nord krauskopf and cotton owens were long gone. the
late 70's were actually a down time for nascar, remember if you will
that there was a bit of a economic crisis at that time much worse than
what is happening now.

take it from me i watched races from that era and most of them were not
THAT competive. i bet from 76 to 78 there were at least 25 races that
were won by over 30 seconds or more. sometimes the winner was the only
one left on the lead lap, so you see petty and pearson and cale did not
really race eachother at the finish all the time, in fact it rarely
happened that way.

to be honest cale probaly won those 3 titles by befault more than
anything. none of them were even close at all. he clinched with at least
a race to go. jimmie on the other hand DID have plenty of other drivers
to beat, and he did beat them all, also over the last 3 years no other
driver has more laps led top 5 top tens or win than jimmie and it is not
even close in all categories ecept top ten were gordon is tied with him,
so jimmie really HAS dominated the last 3 years.

listen i am not really a jimmie fan, but I AM a NASCAR HISTORY FAN and i
think most people do not really appreciate the history that has been
made here, such as yourself. like the chase or not, it is the system we
now have. and every team starts the season knowing that. i am tired of
fans whining about the chase, these are the same fans who whined about
how kenseth won his title in 03. well who are you crappin, which is it?

jimmie's 3 peat is more impressive unfortunately and i honestly believe
cale would even admit it himself. Back in the day we went to the races
to meet our favorite drivers more than to see the races, and cale seemed
like a pretty clear thinking fellow. 3 peats are rare today in sports
and they should be celebrated not critisized.

Jimmie is not brash like dw was or kyle is. he is not obnoxiuos like
harvick or tony. he is not a clone or robot like kenseth or bowyer or
kahne. he is not an ego maniac like carl or juan pablo. he is not a tool
like denny hamlin or jaime mcmurray or kurt busch, and he is not a
underachiever like dale jr or jeff gordon was this year. he is kind soft
spoken, competivtive, and just flat out better than every other driver
in cup right now, and nascar fans had better hope that somebody better
than carl edwards or kyle busch comes along soon, or jimmie will win
about 7 of these things in a row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  41.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.21.2008 - 4:05 pm
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That's fair. You make a lot of really good points. First of all I take
nothing from Jimmie, he is a great driver. His ability to stay calm in
adverse situations is amazing and it is what has really separated him
from the other drivers. When things go wrong, not only does he not get
all pissy and down on his team, he actually raises his game and uses it
as motivation to be even better. This has allowed him to accomplish more
than drivers with more driving talent. I respect him as a racer WAY more
than hotheads like Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, and Robby Gordon, all of
whom I think have more driving talent but an unbelievable ability to act
like children although they are all in their mid 30s.

But to your point, I argue that competition is much deeper today.... for
5th place. From 5th to about 35th is very close, much closer than it
ever was during Cale's era. Getting a Top 5 is way tougher today. Hell,
in the past you could be 20 or 30 laps down and finish 5th. Today you
can run 500 miles and finish 30th.

BUT

It seems the serparation nowadays between 1st and 5th is even further
than it was. With NASCAR continuing to make this an IROC clone series,
if one team finds the smallest little thing, it really separates them
from the field. Look at this year: Kyle, Carl and Jimmie won 2/3 of all
the races in a 36 race schedule. Not exactly parity. Another example is
Tony Stewart in 2005. They were a 15th place car for the first 1/3 of
the season but went to Michigan to test, figured something out, and
combined with Tony deciding to act like an adult for once were totally
unstoppable for the rest of the year. It seems to me that once you
figure it out, you are only racing 3 or 4 teams for the top spot, like
Cale in the 70s.

Another reason for the tightening of the fields is that the cars are
much more durable. Hardly anyone blows an engine anymore which used to
claim half the top teams in every race. Plus debris cautions, lucky
dogs, etc.

I respect your postion as an observer from the 70s. I wasn't even alive
until 1984 and my earliest memories of NASCAR are the 1989 title fight
(heartbreaker). I always enjoy talking with people who were around to
see it back then. I wish I could have been around then when it was truly
a sport, not a business only. I also respect your veiws of the Chase,
but I think that recently it is more a result of the widening of the gap
I mentioned earlier. Look at 2004. Kurt Busch was unspectacular in the
regular season and during the Chase, he just avoided problems for the
most part during the last 10 while the others all had multiple issues.
Even this year, look at RCR. Kevin Harvick finished 4th with no wins,
very few laps led, and not really ever coming close to a win. Bowyer and
Burton finish 5th and 6th with only 3 wins, 2 of which were complete
luck. If it wasn't for the tremendous gap between Carl, Jimmie, and the
Biff they could have contended for the Cup, which is beyond depressing.
Bottom line: They need to reward wins more.


  42.   Brandon posted:
  11.23.2008 - 9:53 am
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If you ppl arent happy with the points standings, then don't watch. God
dammit. You ppl complain about it not being competitive enough, then you
go and complain when they do something about it.

Im sorry Jr. didnt win, but maybe he's not good enough under any points
system.

And Jimmie and Cale may not have had the same points system, but Jimmie
did it in the old car, the old car and the COT, and the COT. That's a
feat, also there are far more competitive teams now then there was in
the 70s.

Jimmie is the perfect champion. He does it with class too. He doesnt
wreck ppl, (like the 3 car did) and he says the right things. He
couldjust say "Ah, no one is going to beat us!" and he'd be right, but
he knows if he gets too high on his horse he will be beaten. So congrats
to he and Chad Knaus, because what they did is astonishing and wont be
done again for a long time.


  43.   Brandon posted:
  11.23.2008 - 9:57 am
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Hey, heres a scary stat, if we had the current chase system in 1992, you
know who would've been the champion...




KYLE PETTY... scary huh??


  44.   Willy on Wheels posted:
  11.24.2008 - 8:42 pm
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No. I wish Kyle had won a championship during his prime


  45.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.24.2008 - 10:25 pm
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No, that's not scary at all. Believe it or not, Kyle was actually a
pretty good driver once. I know that is hard to believe now, but it is
true. He won races and regularly contended for others. Unfortunately
Felix Sabates was his owner. That prevented him from more wins.


  46.   Steve posted:
  11.25.2008 - 4:10 am
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I gotta wonder, since NA$CAR has made a good move by outlawing testing
(at Cup/Busch/Truck tracks, but Jack Roush is trying to get all of the
teams to agree to not test at all), I wonder; how many entries next year
will become R&D cars? Teams like Hendrick, Roush, and Childress may
"demote" one of their drivers to be the "test dummy" on a given weekend.
Perhaps they will create a partnership with a smaller team that will be
like their test team.

Or, the bad result of no tests would be an increase of Cup drivers and
teams in the B-series. :(

Does anybody have some thoughts concerning cost-cutting in NA$CAR? I do.

1: drop the purse money by $1 million or 2 at each race. Carl Edwards'
team got $371,025 for winning this race, and I think the lowest payout
was for Dave Blaney's 41st place finish at the Glen (&60,230); that's a
bit frivolous. Think about it; $1 to $2 million less for each race is
$36 to $72 million saved!

2: fewer races. Most veteran drivers have said they'd like to see the
schedule drop to about 29 or 30 races; not so taxing on the teams (in
terms of effort and finances). That's not only 6 or 7 less races to
travel to, but also 6 of 7 less races to have to pay purse money to.

3: shorten some races. For instance, do we really need to race 500 miles
(twice) at California? Or Pocono?

4: create a budget cap. Something like $5 million per team. Not per
entry (#5, #24, #48, #88 for Hendrick = $20 million budget). Per team.
That would make car owners re-think a multi-car team.


  47.   Dodge posted:
  11.25.2008 - 3:29 pm
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It would be an easy choice for Childress for test dummy, Casey Mears.
I say get rid of California Speedway completely and take one date from
Pocono and move the distance for the oher one to 400 miles. Add another
short track because that is where real racing is. One race in Phoenix,
give Darlington back its second date. To replace California, Rockingham
comes back once and go to North Wilkesboro once. Go back to 1 race at
Texas, give Iowa a Cup date. Get Talladega out of the chase and put
Rockingham there.


  48.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.26.2008 - 12:18 pm
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"It would be an easy choice for Childress for test dummy, Casey Mears."

Ain't that the truth!!! I've got a feeling that will probably happen
around the beginning of May when it is obvious Casey won't make the
Chase. RCR might try doing stuff with his car that they don't normally
do with their other cars, like giving it a motor that has a lot of
horsepower and risk getting... RCR employees cover your ears... a blown
engine.

As for the schedule: Take away both California dates, give one to
Rockingham for a 500 MILE race like they used to. One Texas date, one
Atlanta date (give their Labor Day event to Darlington while also
keeping the Mother's Day event), one Charlotte event, one Pocono event,
one Michigan event (that track friggin sucks and the "Detroit pride"
thing is out the window nowadays), and get rid of the All Star race, it
has sucked for the last 16 years. There: 31 races over 32 weekends. That
will give us some breaks so we don't get burned out like we do now.

As for North Wilkesboro, I love that track. I went to a lot of races
there as a kid and it is my favorite track I have ever been to. The
racing was absolutely incredible and the atmosphere was great.
Unfortunately it has been sitting around for 12 years now (burn in Hell,
Bruton and Bob Bahre) and needs some serious repair, so that would take
a year or two. But when it is better, give it one of New Hampshire's
dates for payback.


  49.   Bronco posted:
  11.26.2008 - 2:32 pm
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I think the current length of the schedule is fine, it's just that the
length of the races and some tracks are an issue. Pocono should only
have one date, and it should be 400 miles. The racing at California
Speedway sucks and has no place on the schedule, certainly not in the
Cha$e. Atlanta should stay in the fall and Darlington should return. And
for God's sakes, add some more road courses, at least one to the Cha$e
as a replacement for Texas. A true champion of the sport should be good
everywhere, not just short tracks and 1.5 mile tracks.

But we all know none of this will ever happen. The only upcoming change
to the schedule will be Kansas getting a second date at the expense of
Martinsville.


  50.   Dodge posted:
  11.26.2008 - 8:57 pm
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DaleSrFanForever
As I said I would love to see North Wilkesboro back but not at the
expense of New Hampshire. I live in New England and there has never been
a race at New Hampshire that wasn't sold out. They draw more than any
other sporting event in New England.


  51.   Anonymous posted:
  11.26.2008 - 10:06 pm
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If Nascar really wanted save the teams money, they should've cut down
the amount of banking at Daytona and Talladega. It would be a good
start. I know for a fact races teams spend a lot of money on place
racing in terms trying to get extra speed in the retricted engines and
hire a group of people just to R &D on plate racing.

Dei was one of the first teams to spend a lot of money and focus on
plate racing. It was the case from 2001 to 2004.

Place racing causes the "big one" to happen. There a lot of teams that
needed to make or a repair a race car after a plate race. Repairing a
race car takes time and money to fix.

I know people wreck at short tracks, but usually there are not wrecks
that involve 12 to 22 cars in the same wreck.

If those two tracks didn't have plates, cup teams wouldn't have to build
at least 3 cars a cup season for plate racing or repair a cup car for
plate racing 3 times in a year at their shop. It could happen if driver
gets caught in the big one 3 times.

The 2nd thing to cut costs to limit the amount of cars a race team can
make a year like a cup team is allowed to make 6 cup cars in a year or
in the team's stable at one time unless a cup car is destoryed.


  52.   Anonymous posted:
  11.26.2008 - 10:49 pm
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There should be some changes in the race schedule in cup.

Texas and Calfornia hasn't sold out both of dates since they got 2
racing dates in seasons. Calfornia's attendance has been a problem since
2006 for both races.

Because of the attendance issues of the tracks, a date should be taken a
way and it should be their fall date.

Atlanta and Charlotte had problems selling out both dates for several
years. I recalled the all star race being half full either in 2006 or 2007.

a race date needs to go away for both the tracks.

Daytona International Speedway has a road course besides being a 2.5
oval race track. The 2nd Daytona date should be used the road course as
a result with it being a 400 mile race.

I don't know pocono still has two dates. I have a problem with a track
getting 2 races date in just over a month time. There is 2 solutions for
that.

1.) get a rid of the date.
2.) move the 2nd date from August to September.

Darlington needs to be back to Labor day weekend.

Rockingham, North Wilkesboro, Nashville, Gateway International Raceway
to the race schedule.

I think North Wilkseboro would have to add some seats beside the track
needing to be repaired. I the race track could handle 50,000 to 60,000
seats.

I would move the race date of the first Phoenix race to after the
Calfornia date. I would move the Texas date to after the Los Vegas date.
I would move the sonoma race to where the 2nd Texas race is right now.

Phoenix and Texas needed to be moved due to the fact weather could
because weather has been an issue in march in the past. Bristol a couple
years ago was an example of it since it snowed in March 2006. That part
of the schedule.

Nasville and Gateway are not cookie cutter tracks. Those two tracks
would bring a challenge to cup teams.

Sadly what I want wouldn't happen. Nascars problems could be fix once
they get rid of all the people in charge of Nascar right now including
France.


  53.   Steve posted:
  11.27.2008 - 1:18 am
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That's something thing I forgot; the exhibition races. The All-Star race
has been boring on recent years (anybody recall any exciting finishes to
the race since Jr pressured Newman in 2002?), and the Bud Shootout is
now officially a joke, because winning the pole is no longer important
to NA$CAR.

Another money-saving idea is a "Run What Ya Brung" policy. Loosen up the
criteria for the cars:
A. the body (length, width, height, wheelbase, etc.) MUST match that of
the street car it portrays.

B. the car MUST weigh 3400 pounds or more (I would reduce that to 3000)

C. engine size cannot exceed 350cc; no power limits

D. fuel storage system has no size limit (whether it's 15 gallons or 30
to 40 gallons), but IT MUST BE SAFE AND PASS AN IMPACT TEST

E. sufficient roll cage

If the teams' cars meet these criteria, then Boogity, boogity,
boogity!!! Go racin', boys!!!

Even though I don't follow NA$CAR so closely these days, it really boils
down to my hatred of what has happened to a sport I adored. I can watch
a race from 2000 or 2001 (when I started following NASCAR) and then
watch a current NA$CAR race and it feels completely different.

I agree about the road courses, Bronco. 4 or 5 would be great! They're
cool because they're different for the drivers.


  54.   Dodge posted:
  11.27.2008 - 2:48 pm
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No, lets not add any more road courses unless you are going to ban the
Road Ringers unless they are gonna run SOME ovals. It is wrong for these
drivers because they are knocking the regulars out of their rides.


  55.   Canadianfan posted:
  11.27.2008 - 3:44 pm
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Here is how I would like see it.

Bud Shootout bring back the pole part it is meaningless without it and
shorten it to 40 laps two 20 lap heat races and invert the field like
the old days.

1.Daytona 500 stays the same
2.Auto Club 500k instead of miles
3.Shelby 427 interesting idea keep it
4.Kobalt Tools 500 same
5.Subway Fit Fresh 500 replaces Bristol
6.Goodyâ??s Fast Relief 500 same
7.Samsung 500 same
8.Food City 500 new date a bit warmer
9.Aaron's 499 same
10.Crown Royal 400 same
11.Rockingham 500 replaces Darlington
Sprint Showdown shorten to 20 laps
Sprint All-Star Race race shorten to 70 laps 20/40/10 and invert field
after every heat
12.Coca-Cola 600 same
13.Best Buy 400 same
14.Pocono 500k instead of miles
15.Lifelock 400 same
16.Toyota/Save Mart 350 same
17.Lenox Industrial Tools 301 same
18.Coke Zero 400 same
19.Lifelock 400 same
20.Allstate 400 same
21.Meijer 400 Presented By Oreo Kentucky replaces second Pocono date
22.Centurion Boats at The Glen same
23.North Wilkesboro 400 replaces second Michigan date
24.Sharpie 500 same
25.Mountain Dew Southern 500 replaces second California date
26.Chevy Monte Carlo 400 same
27.Bank of America 500 replaces second New Hampshire date
28.Checker Auto Parts 500 replaces second Dover date
29.Kansas 400 same
30.TUMS Bring It On 500 replaces second Talladega date
31.Pep Boys Auto 500 replaces second Charlotte date
32.A Third Road Course date suggestions needed
33.Dickies 500 replaces second Atlanta date
34.AMP Energy 500 replaces second Texas date
35.Rockingham 400 replaces second Phoenix date
36.Ford 400 same

So here is my schedule I would love to know what you all think or what
the third road course should be.


  56.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  11.28.2008 - 3:45 pm
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You're right Dodge, New Hampshire deserves two dates, but only because
of the fans. It holds 101,000 people and sells out twice a year no
matter what. Those fans deserve it.

That is a good schedule Canadianfan, but I have just one suggestion.
Switch the spring Bristol and Martinsville dates on your schedule. The
Bristol fans show up no matter what. In 2006 it snowed all weekend and
they still packed it. At Martinsville this spring it was 35 degrees and
it had a lot of empty seats. Back when that date was in the middle of
April it filled up easily, even the backstretch seats.

North Wilkesboro could easily expand their seating to almost 90,000.
There were never any seats between turns 3 and 4. Plus the backstretch
seating could be vastly expanded. This might sound like heresy, but I
wouldn't be opposed to switching the frontstretch and backstretch like
they did at Darlington. They can't really expand frontstretch seating
because there is a big hill right behind it, so they could do like they
did at Darlington. They would have to bulldoze the infield anyways and
rebuild everything, so they could redo the pits too. God I hope somebody
can buy that place and get ANYTHING racing there again. I'll be there
even if it is old women racing scooters.


  57.   Anonymous posted:
  11.29.2008 - 9:28 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Updated thanks for the comment DaleSrFanForever

Here is how I would like see it.

Bud Shootout bring back the pole part it is meaningless without it and
shorten it to 40 laps two 20 lap heat races and invert the field like
the old days.

1.Daytona 500 stays the same
2.Auto Club 500k instead of miles
3.Shelby 427 interesting idea keep it
4.Kobalt Tools 500 same
5.Subway Fit Fresh 500 replaces Bristol
6.Food City 500 as requested by DaleSrFanForever
7.Samsung 500 same
8.Goodyâ??s Fast Relief 500 as requested by DaleSrFanForever
9.Aaron's 499 same
10.Crown Royal 400 same
11.Rockingham 500 replaces Darlington
Sprint Showdown shorten to 20 laps
Sprint All-Star Race race shorten to 70 laps 20/40/10 and invert field
after every heat
12.Coca-Cola 600 same
13.Best Buy 400 same
14.Pocono 500k instead of miles
15.Lifelock 400 same
16.Toyota/Save Mart 350 same
17.Lenox Industrial Tools 301 same
18.Coke Zero 400 same
19.Lifelock 400 same
20.Allstate 400 same
21.Meijer 400 Presented By Oreo Kentucky replaces second Pocono date
22.Centurion Boats at The Glen same
23.North Wilkesboro 400 replaces second Michigan date
24.Sharpie 500 same
25.Mountain Dew Southern 500 replaces second California date
26.Chevy Monte Carlo 400 same
27.Bank of America 500 replaces second New Hampshire date
28.Checker Auto Parts 500 replaces second Dover date
29.Kansas 400 same
30.TUMS Bring It On 500 replaces second Talladega date
31.Pep Boys Auto 500 replaces second Charlotte date
32.A Third Road Course date suggestions needed
33.Dickies 500 replaces second Atlanta date
34.AMP Energy 500 replaces second Texas date
35.Rockingham 400 replaces second Phoenix date
36.Ford 400 same

So here is my schedule I would love to know what you all think or what
the third road course should be.


  58.   Kit posted:
  11.29.2008 - 8:22 pm
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We just need to cut the schedule back down to 30 races a year and go
back to the regular points system. With each race being 1/30 of the
overall picture rather than 1/36, each race is more critical for the
championship.


  59.   Dodge posted:
  11.30.2008 - 6:40 am
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Kit, I respectfully disagree. Leave the schedule at 36 or maybe even add
another one race. Weekend really aren't the same without racing. On
Saturdays I feel like I could kind of go and hibernate like a bear.
Sunday's not much better either except for the local NFL team.


  60.   Kit posted:
  11.30.2008 - 4:38 pm
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No, NASCAR has went downhill since they have added more races. Each
individual race means less to the overall championships now. Hell, with
the chase system, how you do in the first 26 doesn't really matter as
long as you are in the top 12.

Even with the traditional points system, it would be a whole lot harder
to see close championships with so many races.

I'd prefer to see something like the truck series, with 29 to 30 races a
year, tighter point battles, and possibly even shorter races.


  61.   Reno posted:
  11.30.2008 - 10:05 pm
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If I designed the schedule, I'd go to as many different tracks as
possible, instead of going to so many tracks twice (14 of them, in fact)
as they do currently. Daytona, Darlington, and the short tracks would
each get two dates, but everyone else gets only one. That would open up
spots for places like Nashville, Kentucky, Gateway, Iowa, Irwindale,
Montreal, O'Reilly RP, and of course, Rockingham and Wilksboro.

The schedule should be based on quality of racing, not on "reaching new
markets." Oh wait, Brian France is running the show, so never mind.


  62.   Red posted:
  11.30.2008 - 10:09 pm
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While we're talking shedule, does anyone else think the All-Star race
has become a total waste of time? All of Nascar's stars share the same
track every week, so why do we need this gimmicky bullshit on the
schedule at all?


  63.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.01.2008 - 1:01 pm
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Excellent post Red. I agree 100%


  64.   richiesbx137 posted:
  12.01.2008 - 4:03 pm
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I agree with some of your comments, one they should keep the races at 36
races a season. If I made changes take out a california race, (because
one they do not fill the stands, secondly the first race conflicts the
oscars, which is also in LA and it should be one race). Also,
Darlington, should have a second race in labor day weekend. Here how I
would made, remember I am doing this by track, not by name of race. Also
I should Iowa and Kentucky in the schedule

1. Daytona
2. Las Vegas or Phoenix
3. Phoenix or Las Vegas
4. Atlanta
5. Bristol (Day) (fans will go regardless)
6. Texas
7. Martinsville
8. Talladega
9. Richmond
10. Kentucky
11. Darlington
12. California
*. All-Star Race- Charlotte-Lowe's
13. Charlotte-Lowe's
14. Dover
15. Pocono
16. Michigan
17. New Hampshire
18. Daytona
19. Chicagoland
20. Indianapolis
21. Watkins Glen
22. Michigan
23. Bristol (Night)
24. Iowa
25. Darlington
26. Richmond
27. New Hampshire
28. Dover
29. Charlotte-Lowe's
30. Kansas
31. Sonoma
32. Martinsville
33. Talladega
34. Texas
35. Phoenix
36. Homestead-Miami


  65.   Steve posted:
  12.03.2008 - 2:01 am
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This is my idea of the 30-race Cup schedule. Notable differences include
some shorter distances (some long-distance races restored), several new
or classic venues added, one race for each venue, Memorial Day weekend
off (IndyCars don't race in Feburary during Daytona Speedweeks, so let's
repay the favor; maybe Stewart, Montoya, and Hornish would try the Indy
500 again) and no Brickyard 400 (I think the event has lost its luster
and the tire situation in 2008
may be a sign of things to come at IMS w/the CoT).

February: Daytona 500 & Milwaukee 225
March: Iowa 300, Texas 500, & Gateway 300
April: Memphis 300, Pikes Peak 300, & Irwindale 300
May: California 500 & Sonoma 150M
June: Du Quoin 200 (a dirt track!), 150-200MI @ a random road/street
course, Father's Day Michigan 400
July: Homestead 500K, New Hampshire 225, Pocono 400, Talladega 500
August: IRP 300, Watkins Glen 200, Kentucky 300, Bristol 500
September: Darlington Southern 500, Richmond 400, Dover 500,
Martinsville 500
October: Winchester 400, Charlotte 500, Rockingham 500
November: Phoenix 300, NAPA 500 @ Atlanta.

Perhaps not perfect, but WDYT?


  66.   Dodge posted:
  12.03.2008 - 4:54 pm
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Steve, it sucks. Some tracks do deserve to lose a date (or two
(California). Others like NHMS that sell out every single race deserve 2
dates. NHMS may not be the most exciting racing but its a diferent type
of racing. My opinion on people that are saying that NASCAR needs to
shorten the schedule are that those are not the Diehard NASCAR fans.
Just my OPINION.
Also, Steve the reason why Indycars don't start their season in February
is that since most of them are foriegn, they can't handle racing 10
months or every week. It's dumb that they start in late March and over
by mid September. Plus a whole month of May only 1 race but a hell of a
lot of practice. I do watch Indycars if NASCAR isn't on. The only forms
of racing I never watch is anything Motorcyle, Drag, Boat and Rally racing.


  67.   Steve posted:
  12.04.2008 - 2:02 am
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"the reason why Indycars don't start their season in February is that
since most of them are foriegn, they can't handle racing 10 months or
every week."

WTF?! How is that related to anything? Also, regarding NHMS, why race
there twice? Once is enough to have a good presence in the Northeast (to
accompany Dover, Pocono, and Watkins Glen).

Does it "suck" because it's not what your idea would be?


  68.   Dodge posted:
  12.04.2008 - 10:00 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Steve, NHMS has sold out every flipping event. Even the last few years
when the seats at most other tracks are selling less.NE loves NASCAR, we
embrace it unlike Californians who just don't show up at the races.Sure
some tracks don't need 2 races like Michigan, Pocono, Texas and Phoenix.
California Speedway don't deserve any cup dates. Kentucky is just
another Kansas style track.
Also, I believe that Pikes Peak may not be there anymore.
Plus, I don't agree with the road course belongs in the chase crap
because you get TOO MANY ROAD RINGERS ENTERING. If NASCAR changes the
rule saying that if you are a ROAD RINGER, YOU MUST RUN A COUPLE OF
OVALS ALSO, then I would consider changing my position.
Lastly, I enjoy Memorial Day weekend when you have the trucks and
Nationwide on Saturday and then the Indy 500 and the Coca-Cola 600. I
watch all 4 of those races. To say that NASCAR should stop racing on
Memorial Day would be 2 things 1) Dumb and 2) since the MILITARY MEMBERS
LOVE NASCAR, IT WOUULD SHOW THEM MORE DISRESPECT.


  69.   Anonymous posted:
  12.04.2008 - 1:21 pm
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Once is enough to have a good presence in the Northeast (to accompany
Dover, Pocono, and Watkins Glen).

Then why does Kentucky need a date? Kansas, Indy, Chicago and Michigan
are all close.


  70.   Anonymous posted:
  12.04.2008 - 4:58 pm
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Steve,

A race date for the Milwaukee mile for cup date would be great, but your
schedule date for the Milwaukee 225 is dumb idea.

I live not too far from the Milwaukee mile for for a very long time.

Milwaukee 225 shouldn't be February for a couple reasons:

1.) Milwaukee 225 at the Milwaukee Mile in February would be facing
major weather issues like snow and the temperatures would be anywhere
from 10 degrees to 45 degrees.

It isn't 45 degrees a lot in February.

Milwaukee Mile most of the time gets 40 to 70 inches of snow in a
winter. Snow storms are capable of happening anytime from Nevember to
early april each year.

2.) The track doesn't do auto racing in February due to the winters in
Wisconsin.

The track doesn't have auto racing from november to the end april.

3.) Goodyear never has made snow tires on race cars before and Goodyear
doesn't have the best record of making good race tires lately.


  71.   Bronco posted:
  12.04.2008 - 11:47 pm
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Since they're never going to change the schedule the way we'd like, I
decided to make a list of my top 10 predictions for the 2009 season
listed by car number. I thought it would be neat to look back and see
how accurate I was.

1. Car #20 - The future driver of the #20 will not live up to all the
media hype and will not win a race or ROTY. The ban on testing won't
work in his favor either.

2. Car #77 - Hornish will either lose his ride during the season, or at
the end of the season, or he will leave nascar. In any case I don't see
him being in Cup during the 2010 season. This is more of a hope than a
prediction, I want to see someone worthy like Allmendinger take over the
#77 car.

3. Car #14/39 - Both Stewart and Newman will not win a race or make the
Cha$e next year. I don't see what is essentially a startup team doing
that. Plus Newman doesn't even have full sponsorship.

4. Car #47 - Ambrose will win a road course race next year. He ran in
the top 5 all day at Sonoma and then got wrecked, and he could have
possibly won Watkins Glen if he hadn't started 43rd. He is definitely
one of the top road racers in nascar, no question.

5. Car #55 - NAPA will move its sponsorship to Reutimann after the 2009
season. I can't believe how the best driver that MWR has is the one
missing a half season of sponsorship.

6. Car #6/26 - McMurray and Ragan will both make the cha$e and will win
at least one race each. McMurray finished the 2008 season very strong
plus he's getting his old crew chief back.

7. Car #07/33 - Bowyer will not make the cha$e or win a race, and same
with Mears. Bowyer barely made it this year.

8. Car #88 - Dale Jr. will win at least one superspeedway race. This is
more of a hope than anything else, I`d love to see him win Talladega
again. Since 2004 he`s had awful luck there.

9. Car #5 - Martin will a race or two and make the cha$e, but will not
win the championship. His best shot at winning it was back in the 90`s
not now.

10. Car #2 - Busch will become a free agent and will have a new ride for
2010. A guy with his talent shouldn`t have to drive the crap that he`s
been getting.


  72.   Anonymous posted:
  12.05.2008 - 1:36 pm
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Logano will win ROTY in 2009. His only competition will be Scott Speed
since Ambrose and Almirola did over 7 races


  73.   Ambrose_fan posted:
  12.05.2008 - 11:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Something that I don't think has been mentioned that would really spice
things up:

Street circuits.


  74.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.06.2008 - 12:18 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Silly Season 2009 predictions:

Martin Truex is named Joe Gibbs Racing's 4th driver for 2010 bringing
Bass Pro Shops along as the sponsor.

Jamie McMurray goes back to struggling and and is announced as out of
the #26 ride at the end of the season, to be replaced by David Reutimann
who will once again far outperform his teammates at MWR.

Brad Kesolowski is announced as Mark Martin's successor.

Casey Mears does like he always does, runs mediocre and gets
outperformed by all of his teammates, leading to him being announced out
at season's end, to be replaced by Bobby Labonte.

Kurt Busch leaves Penske Racing for another mediocre team, like
Earnhardt Ganassi or GEM. His career choices haven't been wise.

Other predictions:

-The law of averages finally catches up to JJ and the 48 team as they
are caught up in 3 wrecks not of their own doing in the Chase.
-Carl Edwards wins less races but is more consistant leading to a
championship in both Cup and Nationwide.
-Kevin Harvick gets in a scuffle and a war of words with someone (I'm
really going out on a limb on this one!!!)
-The new California October date still has a lot of empty seats (and
this one!!)
-Jeff Burton only wins one race but gets a whole lot of Top 15 finishes,
gets in the Chase, makes a little noise early, then disappears (I'm on a
roll)
-Without Joe Gibbs, Tony Stewart totally explodes making his sponsors
unhappy leading to him having a very quiet 2nd half on and off the track.
-Neither Stewart nor Newman make the Chase, win a race, lead many laps,
or really contend for any wins.
-Logano struggles but wins ROY by default. Both Stewart and the #20 team
secretly wish they were still together.
-Marcos Ambrose contends for wins on the road courses but struggles
mightily on the ovals.
-Jack Roush scowls a lot (do I have balls or what!!!)
-Dale Jr's season looks a lot like this one, but his fans won't care.
-Clint Bowyer and his old #07 team never get in synch with their new
driver/team leading to much tension within the RCR camp.
-NAPA signs a ten year extension with Michael Waltrip who is still
floundering.
-Short fields after Daytona or lots of start and parks, which isn't
necessarily a bad thing, especially at the smaller tracks.


  75.   Dodge posted:
  12.06.2008 - 1:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DaleSrFanForever
Reutimann will not be going to RoushFenway Racing UNLESS Nascar gets rid
of the 4 team cap that begins in 2010


  76.   Anonymous posted:
  12.06.2008 - 6:37 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

2009 silly season predications

Kurt busch will be leaving Penske for Red Bull Racing.

Casey Mears will be gone after 1 year at rcr.
The 26 team will be gone From Roush and will be part of Yates Racing.

The Wood Brothers will fold.

Truex will be going to Stewart Haas or RCR.

Vickers will be going to Earnhardt Ganassi.

Attendance will be going down and ISC and IMS will be force to lower
their prices on food and tickets.

More cup teams will by gone by 2010 and teams will be losing sponsors.

One of the big 3 will be pulling out of Nascar. Hint: It is not ford or
chevy.

Other 2009 predication:
Atlanta or Charlotte will lose a race date in 2010 to Kentucky.

Hendrick Motorsports- Johnson will not win his 4th Chase, Dale Jr will
win 2 races next year and finish in the top 10 in points, Mark will win
a 2 or 3 races in the 5 car and Jeff Gordon will will finish in the top
10 in points.

RCR- Mears will be lucky if he finishes in the top 20 in points. Harvick
will win a race and will get in a in a scuffle with Montaya. Clint will
by on the bubble for making it to the chase. Burton will make it to the
chase and will fade.

Gem with petty- If the meager with petty happens, A.J will be finishing
top 20 in points in the 10 car. Reed will be getting 3 to 6 top tens in
the 43 car. Kasey will be on the bubble for making in the case with a
win or 2. Sadler will get his normal 6 to 12 top 5's a year.

Yates racing-Menard will be finishing in the top 20 or 25 range in
points. Kvapil will be ending up the same in points.

Roush- Edwards will be the winner of the chase with a total 8 wins.
Kennseth will be be on the bouble for making it to the chase. Biffle
will make it in the chase and will have at least 1 win. Reagan will get
his first win and should make it in the chase. Jamie McMurray will not
make it in the chase, but should finish with 13 top 10's.

Marcos Ambrose will be winning a race, but will struggle a lot during
the season.

Stewart Haas- Ryan and Tony shouldn't make it the chase. They might
contend for a couple wins this season with the being on short tracks and
road course.

Gibbs racing- The 20 team will be missing Stewart a lot. Joey might
finish in the top 25 at best. Lack of testing is going to him big time.
Hamlin will get a win and has a good chance make the chase. Kyle Bush
will make the chase and will be better in the chase.

Penske- will contend for a win once in a while, but will be struggling a
lot with Kurt and David Stremme. Sam Hornish, Jr. should be done before
the end of season. Schrader or Nemecheck will be taking over the 77 car
for the remainder of the year.

Red Bull Racing- Vickers will finish in the top 20. The 84 team will be
hurting with speed behind the wheel. Speed might finish in the top 30 if
he is lucky.

Robby Gorden Motorsports- This might be Robby's last year as an owner
driver. He might contend as Road course and plate tracks only.

Bill Davis will be gone by the end of the year.

Earnhardt Gannassi- If Gem is buying Petty, Bobby will be in the 41.
Bobby will have 5 to 10 top 10's in the car. Truex- will get 11 to 14
top 10's this years before leaving the organization. Montoya will admit
to wrecking Harvick on Purpose and he will be in a scuffle with Harvick.
Almirola will get anywhere from 2 to 8 top 10's.

Michael Waltrip Racing- Michael will be finishing in the top 30 in
points. He will get a top 10 once in a while. David Reutimann will be
getting 8 to 10 top's this year with a top 5.


  77.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.07.2008 - 5:23 pm
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You're right Dodge, let me rephrase that: David Reutimann will be going
to "Yates" Racing.

Although I do have another prediction: The whole "Roush must cut down to
four teams" mandate gets ugly. As in "court injunction" ugly.


  78.   Dodge posted:
  12.08.2008 - 7:38 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DaleSrFanForever
Whho would Reut replace? They will probably get the 26 car. I hope that
it would be Gilliland out for Reutimann if that is the case.


  79.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.09.2008 - 4:22 pm
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Most likely Gilliland, in my opinion. He hasn't really improved in his
time in Cup, either in speed or avoiding mistakes. I know sponsorship
issues hurt them this year, but he still found himself in a lot of
wrecks, plus Travis Kvapil really outperformed him. And I really think
the Juan Pablo incident will hurt him. As much as others have probably
daydreamed about doing that, it is something you just can't do, at least
not in that manner.

And I imagine the #26 will probably be the team to go. We know Jack
won't get rid of the #6, and the #16, #17, and #99 are really tied to
their current drivers right now. The #26 has kind of a rocky history,
even with the championship. Jack bought the #97 John Deere team and ran
mediocre with Chad Little. They put Kurt Busch in and ran really well,
with many wins and a championship. But it was one of the most unpopular
teams ever. Once Kurt fussed his way out of Roush and into Penske (what
a smart move!) they even changed the number just to get as far from Kurt
as possible.

I just have a feeling that team is the furthest from Jack's heart. Hell,
he's even letting Jamie hand pick his crew chiefs! Remember, Jeff Gordon
may have ended up with Roush, but he wouldn't let Ray Evernham come
along (bet he regrets that) because he wanted to pick the crew chief.


  80.   Bronco posted:
  12.11.2008 - 10:30 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

It's sad to know that a lot of drivers and teams that were in this race
will likely not be there for the 2009 Daytona 500. Guys like
Allmendinger, Riggs, Blaney, Raines, Nemechek, McCumbee and Smith have
their future up in the year for 2009. Others like Elliott will run a
very limited schedule. Almirola's year depends on sponsorship. Schrader
will also run a few races here and there, but I see Hall of Shame Racing
shutting down soon. Labonte is also out of the 43 but he'll likely be
going to the #41.

We're either going to have smaller fields, or a lot of field fillers
like a few years ago but either way it's going to be interesting to see
what happens.


  81.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  12.13.2008 - 12:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Car #88 - Dale Jr. will win at least one superspeedway race. This is
more of a hope than anything else, I`d love to see him win Talladega
again. Since 2004 he`s had awful luck there."

I don't know if it is so much awful luck as it was DEI falling back to
Earth on the plate tracks (and falling off the face of the Earth
everywhere else). From 2001 to 2004, both Dale Jr and Michael Waltrip
were both branded as "great drafters" as they always dominated the plate
events. But it is awfully funny that ever since 2005, both have not run
up front nearly as much and haven't hardly been in contention for wins
at plate tracks. Could it be that is was just the equipment was FAR and
above everything else on the track at the time? Did they just forget how
to draft?

"Atlanta or Charlotte will lose a race date in 2010 to Kentucky."

I wouldn't be opposed to Kentucky taking Charlotte's fall date, and I
only live about an hour from Concord. I haven't been to a race there in
a few years because it just isn't worth it because the racing is so bad.
Why sit in traffic forever and walk halfway across town just to watch a
bad race with an overpriced ticket? I don't mind the traffic and walking
at Martinsville because the racing is great and the prices are
reasonable. Let's see if Kentucky can put on a decent show.


  82.   Steve posted:
  01.03.2009 - 3:46 am
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I'll add some of MY predictions to the mix:
1-Martin Truex Jr: Guess who's back? For a win? He will win a race and
contend for a spot in the chase. I don't know if he'll get in, but he
will still have a shot in September. JPM may challenge him for team
supremacy, but Truex will most likely be the leader at the new EGR team.

5-Mark Martin: Mark is hungry. He's back full time. He will win, and he
will make the chase (all 3 times he's tried, he gotten in). And I agree
with a previous comment about Keselowski replacing him in 2010 or 2011.

6-David Ragan: First-time winner. He'll "break his duck" and again fight
for a chase spot.

7-Robby Gordon: Feast or famine. He and the team will finally make
progress and crack the Top 20 in points or he will fall from the Top 35.

07-Casey Mears: Moving up. He will fight for a chase spot.

12-David Stremme: A sleeper. I think he will surprise a lot of people at
Penske.

14-Tony Stewart: Daytona 500 winner. Bold, I know, but I have a hunch.

18-Kyle Busch: Saving it for the end. His start to 2009 will not be as
strong as in 2008, but he will be a bit more stealthy at the end of the
year.

20-Joey Logano (R): Give him time. Don't hit the panic button just yet;
in the second half of the year he will be much improved.

24-Jeff Gordon: All or nothing. He will either win a race and make the
chase or fail to do both.

29-Kevin Harvick: Sneaky Pete. Kevin will be a darkhorse for the Cup.

33-Clint Bowyer: Dancing with the devil. Clint will either grab the
final spot in the field or fail to qualify for one of the first 5 races
until 2009 points take effect.

42-Juan Pablo Montoya: Coming full circle. Juan will get closer to
emulating his oval track performances he showed in CART a decade ago.

43-Reed Sorenson: An enigma. Not sure what wasn't right for him at
Ganassi, but I don't think things will be any better for Speedy Reed at
Gillett.

48-Jimmie Johnson: Four Score. Jimmie and Chad will be somewhat of a
threat in the first 20 races before they come on like Gangbusters and
fight until the end at Homestead.

82-Scott Speed (R): Onr rung at a time. Speed showed improvement at
Homestead (started 2nd and finished 16th) and will find the Top 10. If
he gets things sorted out quickly, he may be a winner.

83-Brian Vickers: No Bull. He will continue to be the leader at Team Red
Bull, and he will have a chance at victory and making the chase.

88-Dale Earnhardt Jr.: Git 'Er Done! I feel that 2009 will be Jr's best
chance to win the Cup. I'm not saying he WILL do it, but team chemistry
will be better with a season under their belt.

RIP Petty Enterprises. 1949-2008.


  83.   Dodge posted:
  01.03.2009 - 8:52 am
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Steve, you sure have guts, lol. Mears fighting for a chase spot. Speed
possibly contending for wins.


  84.   Kit posted:
  01.03.2009 - 11:28 am
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Steve, those are not predictions, those are simply wishful thinking on
your part.

"07-Casey Mears: Moving up. He will fight for a chase spot."

You mean just like he fought for a chase spot in the #5 car, which was
equal or better than the RCR he's going to now? Hahaha.

"12-David Stremme: A sleeper. I think he will surprise a lot of people
at Penske."

Penske is a second-tier team going through down years. Stremme won't be
able to do much.

"14-Tony Stewart: Daytona 500 winner. Bold, I know, but I have a hunch."

"42-Juan Pablo Montoya: Coming full circle. Juan will get closer to
emulating his oval track performances he showed in CART a decade ago."

He'll continue to wreck and get into confrontations with other drivers.
No you don't, just more wishful thinking. The team he is going to
fielded the #66 and #70 teams. He might be bringing new people and some
money but it's going to take a hell of a lot more time for them to get
competitive.

Plus Tony really does not have the temperament to be an owner/driver. He
damages his own car way too much when retaliating against other drivers.
You can't do that when you field your own stuff. More than likely he
won't win a race next season.

A lot of your "predictions" conflict each other.


  85.   Steve posted:
  01.04.2009 - 12:21 am
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I see no conflicts (except your disagreement). Interesting that you
choose to critique MY predictions and nobody else's.

Regarding Stewart, Sterling Marlin once said after the Big One (in
frustration after dominating again), "You can take a junk car and run
good here. There's nuthin' to it!" Even if the car isn't up to his
liking (it probably won't be), Stewart knows the draft as well as
anybody and can make up a significant difference.

About Montoya: I said he "will get closer" to his CART oval racecraft.
On several occasions JPM was in the Top 10 or Top 5 before an accident
(usually not his fault, like with Gilliland at Texas), and I think he
will be in the Top 10 more often in 2009.

At least those ideas aren't far-fetched like Truex going to Stewart-Haas
in 2010, Ambrose winning, or the unnecessary attacks on Sam Hornish Jr's
ability.


  86.   Willy on Wheels posted:
  01.04.2009 - 7:23 am
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Stewart Racing will contend for wins soon after the 2009 season begins.
If Johnny Sauter, Scott Riggs and Jeff Green could pull off an
occasional top ten in the 66/70 cars, then Tony Stewart and Ryan Newman
will have no problem contending for wins.


  87.   petty43 posted:
  01.05.2009 - 3:30 pm
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its a sad day that i knew was coming but i must admit that petty
enterprises has been left in the cold. they tried so hard but i am
hearing that all employees are be cleared out. i hope that those guys
and all others who lost a job in racing find work soon best wishes to
them. I have not been less interested in nascar that i am now EVER!!!!!!
they could be headed for a indy racing like demise.


  88.   Kit posted:
  01.05.2009 - 11:25 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

[quote]Johnny Sauter, Scott Riggs and Jeff Green could pull off an
occasional top ten in the 66/70 cars, then Tony Stewart and Ryan Newman
will have no problem contending for wins. [/quote]

There is more to winning than just who is in the driver's seat. I know
you've only been watching NASCAR for about a year or so, Willy, but
you'll find this out eventually.


  89.   Kit posted:
  01.05.2009 - 11:29 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Interesting that you choose to critique MY predictions and nobody else's."

Because I don't have time to read all 80+ responses to this race and
your response was the newest one.

The key word is "run good there." Marlin had very good cars when he won
the '94 and '95 Daytona 500s.

Who cares about Montoya?


  90.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  01.06.2009 - 12:34 pm
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Ironic. In the same winter both Richard Petty's team and Dale
Earnhardt's team go belly up and are forced to "merge". I hope this is
the the worst it will get for NASCAR, but it probably won't be. Even if
the economy does improve (unlikely) NASCAR has made it harder and harder
to get excited about this sport. Between huge disparities between the
haves and have-nots, absolutely crappy racing, bad personalities, and
bad racetracks, it doesn't look good for the sport I have followed
closely since I was 5 years old.

I am really sad to see Petty Enterprises be absorbed. Yeah the #43 will
be out there, but we know it won't be Richard's. Worse, it will have the
underwhelming Reed Sorenson behind the wheel. I have the utmost respect
for the Petty family and what they have done for the sport and I hoped
they would be involved forever.

And seeing DEI go under was really bad for me. To think about all that
time Dale spent planning it and building it and how much pride he took
in it when it succeeded, and to think of the condition it is in now is
heartbreaking. Yes, I know Dale has been gone for almost 7 years. And
yes, I know it in no way resembles the company he left behind in
February 2001. But I will always think of it as Dale's company, even
though it has been run into the ground by horrible management decisions.
To see it end so ingloriously, with Ganassi literally picking the scraps
up off the floor, is sad.


  91.   Willy on Wheels posted:
  01.07.2009 - 12:36 pm
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"There is more to winning than just who is in the driver's seat. I know
you've only been watching NASCAR for about a year or so, Willy, but
you'll find this out eventually.
Kit | 01.05.09 - 11:25 pm "


FYI I have been watching NASCAR since 1994. And Stewart Haas Racing has
more than just Tony and Ryan, They have higher paying sponsors, like Old
Spice and Office Depot, hired better crew chiefs and mechanics, and will
probably get more support from Chevy than the 66/70 did.


  92.   Anonymous posted:
  01.07.2009 - 5:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Steve,

Ambrose winning a race isn't really far fetched.

Ambrose is capable of winning on Road Courses.

Ambrose carried the Wood Brothers to a 3rd place finish at Watkins Glen
even. Ambrose has a great history at Road Courses in the Nationwide
series also.

Ambrose is one of the top drivers at road courses in cup by what he did
last year in the races.

He did well at Sonoma before transmission problems.


  93.   Kit posted:
  01.08.2009 - 1:28 pm
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"FYI I have been watching NASCAR since 1994."

The type of comments you make would suggest otherwise.

"And Stewart Haas Racing has more than just Tony and Ryan, They have
higher paying sponsors, like Old Spice and Office Depot, hired better
crew chiefs and mechanics, and will probably get more support from Chevy
than the 66/70 did."

That's true but it's not what you said originally. I was replying to
what you said originally.

But it still takes more than what you just posted to be really
competitive; you still need team chemistry.


  94.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  01.13.2009 - 10:57 pm
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Bobby Labonte will drive for Hall of Fame Racing in 2009, which has
ditched its only redeeming factor -JGR technical support- for support
from Yates Racing. So they are a satellite team of a satellite team. I
like Bobby and I respect his driving talent and classiness, but his
career moves have been head scratching.

Next year he will drive for Furniture Row Racing with technical support
from Kirk Shelmerdine's team.


  95.   Bronco posted:
  01.14.2009 - 8:25 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Bobby Labonte will drive for Hall of Fame Racing in 2009, which has
ditched its only redeeming factor -JGR technical support- for support
from Yates Racing"

Haha redeeming factor? If anything that was their dooming factor. Think
about it - it makes no sense that the 96 sucked last year no matter who
was driving it while the 11,18,20 were competitive each week. They were
obviously not getting any "technical support". There was a sports
illustrated article about JJ Yeley where he talked about that.

As far as Bobby is concerned, I don't see any change in performance.
It's good to know he found a ride, but he's still going to end up
20-25th in points with a top ten here and there. I agree his career
moves have been weird - I will never understand why he didn't sign on
for the 33 Cheerios Chevy for next year. The real winner in this is Hall
of Shame racing for securing a sponsor and being locked into the first 5
races.


  96.   Dodge posted:
  01.15.2009 - 9:48 am
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Not exactly is Bobby locked in. If he and Tony needs a championship
provisional, Tony gets it before Bobby.


  97.   Kyle_Petty_Not_busch posted:
  01.15.2009 - 4:38 pm
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Yates has finally found a way back into Victory Lane!!!!!!


  98.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  01.15.2009 - 8:48 pm
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I agree JGR's technical support has been weak, but it is better than
getting support from a team that is already a satellite team. And you
have to take what JJ Yeley says with a grain of salt. He is the same guy
who said that he wasn't given a fair shake in the #18 car, that it
wasn't as good as the other JGR cars. Kyle Busch got in that car this
year and won EIGHT times with the same crew and crew chief. It is time
for JJ Yeley to quit making excuses and admit that he is a terrible
stock car driver.

And the other drivers who drove the #96 last year weren't very good
either. Joey Logano was in WAY over his head, he actually did worse in a
4th JGR car. And Ken Schrader, God bless him, was mediocre in his prime.
And he is WAY past his prime. Let me make this clear: I know the #96
wasn't an elite ride by any means, but with those drivers, I'm surprised
they did as well as they did.

I do agree he should have taken the #33 car. Then RCR could have kept
Bowyer in the #07 car with his old team like he should have and not had
to hire the crappy Casey Mears.


  99.   Kit posted:
  01.16.2009 - 12:16 am
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Bronco has a point. JGR yanked Logano out of the HOF car because his
finishes were so bad. Obviously they weren't providing HOF with much help.

I kind of suspect that Labonte considers himself to be past the prime of
his career (who knows why) and doesn't really pursue competitive cars
anymore. He's keeping himself out of good rides.


  100.   Kit posted:
  01.17.2009 - 5:00 am
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MY PREDICTION FOR THE 2009 SEASON:

It will be worse than 2008 due to there being a limited number of
competitive teams due to the economy among other things.

Right now, we have more competitive drivers than teams. Guys like Kahne,
Kvapil, Newman, Reutimann, et cetera should be winning a lot more races
than they are, but they can't because their equipment isn't up to snuff.
Due to so many sponsors pulling out, there will be a larger disparity
between the have and the have-not teams. The teams already strong will
survive and the rest of the teams will have a hard time catching up.


  101.   Dodge posted:
  01.17.2009 - 9:55 am
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I personally think that David Reutimann is not as good of a driver in
the Cup Series as others make him out to be. Sure, he did good in the
trucks and Nationwide series. There is a reason why he never got a
chance earlier in NASCAR. Nowadays, its real unusual to have a driver
that is 37 years old as a rookie like Reutimann was.


  102.   Bronco posted:
  01.17.2009 - 11:10 pm
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Dodge,

In only his second season in Cup David finished 22nd in points and ran
up front a lot while driving for what can at best be described as a Tier
3 team. You don't think that's good?

I'm not sure why you bring up age. Age has nothing to do with driving
ability, if you can drive, you can drive at any age. Even in 2007
Reutimann impressed me by qualifying for more races than his veteran
teammates without any champion's provisional or anything, and he was the
highest finishing MWR car points wise. If he was with a good team, he
would be in the Chase easily.


  103.   Dodge posted:
  01.18.2009 - 9:05 am
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My only reason why I brought his age up was that if others thought he
had a lot of POTENTIAL he would of been in Cup A LONG TIME AGO.


  104.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  01.18.2009 - 1:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

I think the world of David Reutimann. To run as respectably as he did
last year for such a terrible team is incredible. You also have to
consider that his teammates are also terrible so they cannot offer him
anything. All Michael McDowell could give him advice on is how to create
spectacular wrecks and how to wreck in any given situation. And Michael
Waltrip, well, I've given my opinion of him many times. He has nothing
to offer advice wise.

Plus I don't think DJ was much help. It was pretty obvious that at the
end he was already thinking ahead to his post driving career. That fire
that used to drive him was gone.

As for the age thing, he just wasn't coddled from infancy to be a race
car driver. His Dad didn't move his family to Charlotte like Joey
Logano's Dad or to Indianapolis like Jeff Gordon's Dad to be in the
middle of it. Plus he has a very shy personality which scared sponsors
away. That is why the Nemco deal fell apart in 2003. Otherwise he
probably would have broken through then.


  105.   Kit posted:
  01.19.2009 - 1:57 am
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Not quite, Dodge. A long time ago, rookie drivers did not get the best
rides.

Besides, no offense, but Reutimann didn't really have anything to do
with the point I was trying to make about the teams.


  106.   Anonymous posted:
  01.19.2009 - 7:30 pm
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Dodge,

one of the reasons Reutimann got a late state in Nascar was the fact he
began his career racing dirt-track modifieds. If he started racing at
the age 18, Nascar owners were not looking at Dirt Track drivers in
Busch or Cup level back in 1988 or 1989. Drivers mostly came from ASA,
Arca, late model, modifies or a different stock car promotion before
going to Nascar. Tim Richmond and Ken Schrader were the expection with
coming froma sprint car series or CART.

Ken Schrader didn't get his start from racing in dirt despite the fact
he raced in different types of racing since. Dale Earnhardt Sr. raced
dirt for a short time in his career before switched to asphalt if I read
correctly 7 or 8 years ago. If Dale didn't do that, he wouldn't have
been in Nascar.

Nascar stopped racing dirt in the early 1970's.

That proved Reutimann didn't lack the talent. David Reutimann decided to
follow the path of his dad as a dirt track racer.

The 2nd thing is David Reutimann basically didn't race anything outside
of dirt track Modifies or late model racing till he was 27 years old.

The 3rd thing is David Reutimann didn't alway raced full time. He even
worked at UPS briefly. It means one out of 3 reasons.

1.) He might have had a problem getting sponsors before Nascar. See
DaleSrFanForever's statement on why.

2.)David Reutimann might have been hurting for money at some point
during his racing career. It could've been partly caused the first reason.

All the statements I mentioned shown his late start was caused by
circumstances outside racing on the track.


  107.   Dodge posted:
  01.20.2009 - 9:12 am
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Ok, I didn't know that HE ran dirt mods. I thought he ran he NASCAR
Weekly races. Then that does explain hy he was an older rookie than the
rookies of he last few years, minus the guys that ran in indycars. I
still don't think he will EVER make a chase or come close because I
don't think he is one of the top 5 newer drivers. Truex, Hamlin, Ky.
Busch, Kahne and Bowyer, in no particular order.


  108.   Kit posted:
  01.20.2009 - 10:15 pm
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Dodge, drivers have on and off years. An "off" year for one of the guys
you mentioned can easily become an "on" year for Reutimann.

I can easily see Reutimann making the chase with Hamlin missing out.


  109.   Dodge posted:
  01.21.2009 - 9:30 am
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I know that drivers have good and bad years. There are other drivers
that are older that I think have a better chance at getting in the
chase. Heck, Mark may end up in the Chase. Stremme may even sneak in
with Penske if they've been working extremely hard to get better. Plus,
the DODGE car got a newer nose that will help on the intermediate tracks
so right there that hampers Reutimann's chances because I believe that
Richard Petty Motorsports are going to have a good year, minus Reed
Sorenson. I know I've been knocking Ragan but I believe now that David
Ragan even has potential to get in the Chase.


  110.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  01.21.2009 - 12:19 pm
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Of the RPM crowd, Kasey is probably the only possible Chase candidate. I
would feel better about the #19 car if Allmendinger were in there. If he
could stay steady like he did at the end of 2008 and keep improving
speed wise he could make a run at it. But even if he runs the full
schedule (which looks unlikely) it will be in a 4th team which probably
won't be up to speed.

So we can thank Elliott for that. I still can't believe he sued to STAY
IN THE CAR!!! They made it clear that they don't want you. If you want
to sue for a buy out bonus, that is fine, but don't force those crew
members into this situation. Again, I'm not saying Gillette is a saint,
he should have never signed him to an extention and he should have
released him earlier so he can try to get a ride. But Elliott has put
undue distractions on RPM this year.

And yeah, forget about Reed. That was another horrible manangement
decision. Hopefully in the future Robbie Loomis can prevent this crap
from happening again.

But I like the way they kept Richard Petty around and named it after
him. That was a classy thing to do. Now if they can get some decent
drivers to compliment Kasey and AJ. Hopefully they'll be able to force
Elliott and Reed out by the end of the year and get some talented
drivers instead.


  111.   Bronco posted:
  01.21.2009 - 10:56 pm
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"I still can't believe he sued to STAY IN THE CAR!!!"

Why can't you believe that? If he had sued for the money owed to him, he
could take that and walk away but then his NASCAR career would be over
just like that. Once you lose your ride, it's hard to get another one
and eventually you're out of sight and out of mind. By staying in the
car he gets a chance to prove himself to other teams and pick up a
different ride for 2010.

"But Elliott has put undue distractions on RPM this year."

How? If the GEM/RPM idiots hadn't screwed around with the contract none
of this would have happened. Elliott simply fought for his rights, if
any of us were in that position we would no doubt do the same.

I can't believe they named the team RPM. I don't get how the guy who's
being bought out gets to call the shots. To call the team RPM is just
weird, half the cars aren't even the King's and one has the dreaded
alcohol sponsorship. In any case I don't see this new team doing any
better than before.


  112.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  01.22.2009 - 5:15 pm
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"Why can't you believe that? If he had sued for the money owed to him,
he could take that and walk away but then his NASCAR career would be
over just like that."

It should be over. He has had many seasons to impress and hasn't. He's
had some good moments and appeared to be on the path to superstardom in
2004, but that was followed by more mediocrity. He's had his chance,
time to step aside and let someone else give it a try.

He's entering Michael Waltrip territory, finding ways to stay in the car
that don't include getting any better as a driver. Becoming a TV
personality instead of a good driver.

"How? If the GEM/RPM idiots hadn't screwed around with the contract none
of this would have happened."

I was talking about the crew members that build and work on the cars.
I've admitted that the Gillette brass isn't very bright. But the guys
who put in the back breaking work will have to do so for a driver that
had to file a lawsuit to stay in the car. If he would have just stepped
aside, recognized his mediocrity, and let AJ take over, they could just
focus on racing. Now everything they do will get second guessed.


  113.   Dodge posted:
  01.22.2009 - 6:54 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

Its funny, you know. The Yates TEAMS struggled in the second half of
2004 and are still. Elliott drove for the Woods and struggled. He goes
to Yates who were getting ready for a downward spiral and took over the
19 car from "The Squeal." It sounds like he has NOTHING he can do. You
can't really do anything when you aren't getting the good stuff. I think
Elliott is a better driver than his results show. Another reason why
Elliott Sadler and Michael Waltrip has lasted so long in Cup is that
they always get EVERY sponsor plugged by being on TV so much. I
personally would rather see Michael or Elliott on TV than some jerk like
Jimmy Spencer.
The reason why GEM (now RPM) has struggled is that they had some idiot
engineer that they hired and he changed everything. They fire him and
they are slowly getting back to form. It takes time and in this sport,
you just don't have time on your side.
When Spencer drove, I liked him but now that I've seen him with a
microphone and hear him STILL take shots still at Kurt Busch shows how
pathetic he is.


  114.   Kit posted:
  01.22.2009 - 9:06 pm
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"Stremme may even sneak in with Penske if they've been working extremely
hard to get better."

Stremme hasn't even done very much in Busch for as much as he has raced.
Newman left Penske because they are not competitive enough to win many
races, much less chances.

"But Elliott has put undue distractions on RPM this year."

They did that to themselves by releasing Sadler so late in the season.
That wasn't very professional of them at all. If they wanted to move in
another direction, they should have done it earlier.

I agree about renaming themselves RPM as being classy. At least a
Richard Petty organization (even if in name only) will win races with Kahne.

"By staying in the car he gets a chance to prove himself to other teams
and pick up a different ride for 2010."

That's true in theory, but realistically, what else does Sadler have to
prove? Granted, his rides haven't been stellar, but Mayfield did do
quite a bit in it and the team hasn't went that far downhill in the past
couple of years.

"He's entering Michael Waltrip territory, finding ways to stay in the
car that don't include getting any better as a driver. Becoming a TV
personality instead of a good driver."

I agree, hell, I think I mentioned this first on this site. I like
Sadler, but what I don't like is when we see more of him with a
microphone rather than being interviewed for a top five finish.


  115.   petty43 posted:
  01.22.2009 - 11:33 pm
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ok time to blow off the old press guides and warm up for another
exciting year of cup racing.

well since everyone is in the prediction mode here goes, expect a whole
lot more of the same, 2009 will mirror 2008 expect the same drivers in
the chase save for tony who will get replaced by mark martin or kahne or
kurt busch, these other drivers who are expected to break through like
reutimann and ragan will not because talent only takes a driver so far.
but experienced teams are the key now, jimmie johnson WILL 4 peat you
heard it here 1 22 2009. he is a virtual lock apart from really bad
luck. the 99 will slide back as will most of roush while hendrick teams
flourish with the big dollars suport that only rick can offer, this
recession favors him over all these other owners right now.

chevy will win manufactures cup this year, logano roy by default, and
junior will remain most popular. this is his teltale year, now we will
see if he is privelged by last name or if he has real talent, he should
definately win 3 or 4 races this years in those cars no excuses!

look for biffle to replace edwards as lead driver in roush camp and rcr
cars will win more races while gibbs slides downward from what i hear,
also the penske cars are anticipating a big revival but with what
talent??? the big surprise could be the new dei ganassi team which
combines strenghts that both teams needed. o and here is hoping that
this is last year of mikey and i really hope that hylton does not make a
race, that would be like pete rose or ric flair trying a comeback please
just go away and accept that nascar will be just fine without a 74 year
old driver who was washed up 35 years ago.


  116.   Dodge posted:
  01.23.2009 - 4:30 pm
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I personally would love to see James Hylton in the race. I also hope
that Johnson doesn't win the Cup this year, he is due for a horrible year.


  117.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  01.24.2009 - 12:27 pm
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The fact is that Kasey has outperformed Elliott from the second he
arrived at GEM. Not only that, but Dinger outran him big time in the
five races he ran in the same cars, and AJ has only driven stock cars
for two years. I just see Elliott as having a relatively low upside. For
an organization trying to break through to the top tier, you can't do
that with stiffs like Elliott. Can you do that with AJ? I don't know,
but at least there is a possibility, wheras there is none with Elliott.
They have a franchise cornerstone in Kasey, now they need to give him
competent teammates.

"I agree, hell, I think I mentioned this first on this site."

You did. I meant to mention that.


  118.   Kit posted:
  01.24.2009 - 5:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I agree EXCEPT they are not going to make it to the top tier if they
keep up with the unethical behavior like canning Sadler in late
December/early January. That's the kind of behavior you'd expect from
Bill Davis and Ganassi, not a top tier organization.

If they felt that Sadler was not the guy, they should have acted sooner.


  119.   reffy posted:
  03.08.2009 - 5:54 am
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If NASCAR gave only points to those who finished first and second, (win
= 2, second = 1) than this would be the Top 10 for 2008

Johnson and Busch would need to win at Homestead and keep Edwards out of
second place to tie him for 21, where the championship would be decided
by wins, than second place finishes, than thirds, etc.

Edwards - 23
Johnsonn - 19
Kyle Busch - 19
Biffle - 6
Stewart - 6
Kahne - 6
Burton - 4
Earnhardt - 4
Kurt Busch - 4
Bowyer - 3


  120.   18fan posted:
  03.10.2009 - 1:01 am
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This was Montoya's last race in a Dodge, which might help him be more
consistent, and Gordon's last race with the Red and Blue flame car. His
new black car looks really good. My dad is a huge Gordon fan.


  121.   jp posted:
  04.14.2009 - 8:50 pm
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The races should be like this:
Bud Shootout
Gatorade Duels
1.Daytona
2.Phoenix
3.California
4.Texas(Day)
5.Talladega
(off-Weekend)
6.Richmond
7.Bristol(Day)
8.New Hampshire(Day)
9.Michegan
10.Darlington(Day)
11.Infineon
12.Rockingham(Night)
13.Dover
14.Iowa(Day)
(off-weekend)
15.Martinsville(Day)
16.Circuit Gilles Villenueve
17.Phoenix
18.Daytona(Night)
Sprint Open
Sprint All-Star Challenge
19.Lowe's
20.New Hampshire(Night)
21.Watkins Glen
22.Texas(Night)
23.Iowa(Night)
24.Dover
25.Richmond
26.Martinsville(Night)
27.Milwalkee
28.Talladega(Night)
29.Gateway
30.Mexico
31.Lowe's
32.Bristol(Day 2)
33.Atlanta
34.Michegan
35.Homestead
36.Las Vegas
NASCAR Banquet held at MGM Casino


  122.   SoxFan24 posted:
  10.25.2009 - 1:55 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

So Jp you are taking away the night race at Bristol. Moving Michigan to
November???? I dont' agree with either one. Bristol at night although it
isnt' what it once was is still a great race. Michigan is going to be
cold in November dude


  123.   SoxFan24 posted:
  10.25.2009 - 2:06 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Okay after that...the milestones of this race

Last win for Carl Edwards as of 10/25/09

Last top 5 for Jamie McMurray as of 10/25/09

Last race for Clint Bowyer in the Jack Daniels car.

Last top 10 for Travis Kvapil in the Cup series as of 10/25/09

Last top 10 for Yates as of 10/25/09

Last race for Casey Mears driving for Rick Hendrick

Last race for the 10 car in Cup racing as of 10/25/09

Last race for Tony Stewart driving for Joe Gibbs

Last race for Haas/CNC racing as we know it

Last race for UPS with Michael Waltrip racing.

Last race for Ryan Newman driving for Penske racing

Last race any Cell Phone Companies other than Sprint can sponsor a car
in the Cup Series as of 10/25/09

Last cup race for Bill Davis racing a team that won a Daytona 500 and
had been in the cup series since 1993. In fact it was the last race with
Bill Davis as a car owner in any series period

Last race AAA sponsored a Jack Roush Car

Last race for DEI as we knew it

Last race for Petty Enterprises as we knew it

Last race for US Army as a sponsor for DEI. US Army sponsored the 01 car
before it was bought by DEI

Last race for Chad McCumbee as of 10/25/09

Last race for AT&T as a primary sponsor in the Cup Series

Last race for Alltel period as they are now a part of Verizon

Last race for Bobby Labonte driving for Petty Enterprises.

Last race for Paul Menard driving for DEI

Last race for David Gilliland driving for Yates

Last race for Reed Sorenson driving for Ganassi


  124.   luigistarted06 posted:
  11.22.2009 - 1:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

This is the one season that it really would have been much more exciting
had the chase not been. I mean imagine, 5 laps to go. Edwards has a
narrow 16 point lead in the championship. Gas is running low, if he
holds on he'll win the race and championship. If the gas runs dry and he
has to pit, he loses everything in a split second. Wow, a fuel milage
championship. Now that would have been something


  125.   ii posted:
  09.29.2010 - 6:51 pm
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People please look at my comment for this '06 race.


  126.   JJSucks posted:
  03.16.2011 - 5:53 pm
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MOST BORING SEASON EVER!!!!


  127.   Cooper posted:
  05.05.2011 - 2:40 pm
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2009 Final Standings by Driver Rating
--Driver rating essentially takes all luck out of the equation and
depicts who were the best drivers in each race. I sorted every race of
the chase by driver rating and assigned the points accordingly to where
they finished in driver rating.

1. Jimmie Johnson 6676
2. Carl Edwards -21
3. Greg Biffle -225
4. Jeff Gordon -262
5. Matt Kenseth -270
6. Kevin Harvick -287
7. Clint Bowyer -318
8. Jeff Burton -331
9. Dale Earnhardt Jr. -338
10. Denny Hamlin -339
11. Kyle Busch -363
12. Tony Stewart -384

Kyle Busch's collapse wasn't from bad luck, he just ran poorly all the
way through. Carl Edwards was really good and was very close to Jimmie's
performance. Talladega killed him in real points. Everyone from
basically 3rd on back ran around each other all chase long.


  128.   Cooper posted:
  05.06.2011 - 11:09 am
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*2008 Final Standings by Driver Rating


  129.   Brian posted:
  05.31.2011 - 9:50 pm
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Under the old system, (which really rewards the best driver) Carl
Edwards would've won! Gah...damn Johnson


  130.   Matthew Sullivan posted:
  04.08.2012 - 1:28 pm
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A top 10 finish in the race and the points standings is taken away from
Junior in the final laps when his right front wheel bearing fails. Had
Junior finished where he was running, 10th, he would have scored enough
points to finish eighth in the standings.


  131.   Daniel posted:
  05.22.2012 - 11:36 am
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In using fastest 43: #13 Max Papis, #77 Sam Hornish Jr., #96 Ken Schrader

Out using fastest 43: #8 Aric Almirola, #47 Marcos Ambrose, #55 Michael
Waltrip


  132.   kup posted:
  05.24.2012 - 1:05 am
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UPS - Universal Points System - after all races of 2008 Cup
Points for a driver = His Distance /devided/ His Average Finish

Dis/AvFn = Driver = KM-Miles / AV-FN

1499 Carl Edwards 14244 / 9,5
1371 Jimmie Johnson 14392 / 10,5
1146 Kevin Harvick 14214 / 12,4
1141 Jeff Burton 14257 / 12,5
1116 Kyle Busch 13946 / 12,5


  133.   Anthony posted:
  10.26.2012 - 5:54 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

Would Kyle have won the Cup if there was no Chase? He had a huge lead
after Richmond and the last 10 races would have played out a lot
differently because there would be none of this "momentum" crap that is
associated with the Chase. I think he would have Kensethed his way to it
(ie. breeze through)


  134.   CBASS posted:
  01.28.2013 - 7:34 am
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  135.   Ed posted:
  10.10.2013 - 12:00 am
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First time in Chase history that the 10 races are swept by Chasers


  136.   Big Mac Fan posted:
  01.11.2016 - 11:20 pm
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Busch's chase collapse in 2008 seems very identical to the Dallas
Maverick's 2007 season, where they went 67-15 and then lost in the first
round.


  137.   18fan posted:
  01.12.2016 - 3:17 am
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I would say the 18 team as a whole collapsed, not just Kyle, but this
one got thrown in with the later Chases when he did play a big part in
the collapse. They had mechanical problems in the first 3 chase races
and they weren't one of the 3 or 4 fastest cars during the Chase
anyways. The 99 car was the fastest all season long and during the Chase
the Roush cars were all really good, plus the 48 team really turned it
on. Even without those mechanical problems I don't think Kyle would've
challenged Carl and Jimmie because they were faster at that point in the
season.

Where I would place the blame (as a career-long Kyle Busch fan) for
Kyle's Chase shortcomings:
2006: Him. Put himself in a deep hole less than 5 laps into the Chase
and, after some decent races, hit the wall at Martinsville and spun on
lap 2 at Atlanta, but it was over by that point. Didn't have the speed
to make for a mistake and the New Hampshire disaster was self-inflicted.

2007: There was no shortcoming. Kyle was a lame-duck playing 3rd fiddle
to Johnson and Gordon. Had a really good Chase that was undone by wrecks
at Kansas and Talladega and pit stop trouble at Atlanta and Texas
(probably should've won both of those races and won neither)

2008: Mechanical failures. 3 straight bad finishes due to mechanical
failures are impossible to overcome and then a melted bead at
Martinsville blew any chances of a decent points finish (you can argue
that a melted bead is driver error, but it was already over at that point).

2009: Him. Small things throughout the regular season were killers. Both
Daytona races stand out as missed opportunities. (Contrary to what he
said at the time, the wreck at the end of the 400 with Tony Stewart was
a racing deal. I don't agree with people that say he should've just let
Tony go by him without trying to defend the lead).

2010: Him. While I believe David Reutimann took a cheap shot, putting
someone with nothing to lose in a position where they can cost you is
dumb, especially how early in the race the initial contact was (there
was also the Bristol press conference remark as well). The Texas
bird-flipping incident is the defining image, but any championship
chances were long gone by then.

2011: The big one here is the Ron Hornaday incident and I have to say
that might be one of the dumbest, most blatant things I've ever seen and
he probably should've been parked for the rest of the season and he was
lucky to keep his ride. But it was bad luck that took him out of
championship contention, being caught up in wrecks at Talladega and
Martinsville. Halfway through the Chase he was 7 points ahead of Tony
Stewart.

2012: Combination of driver and bad luck. There were several mechanical
failures and several crashes, both of his doing and not his doing. I do
not fault him at all for losing Watkins Glen. Yes he came across Brad's
nose, but how many drivers are just going to cede position racing for
the lead on the final lap. And what gets overlooked from that race is
the spanking he put on Brad and Marcos Ambrose on the last run before
the track became full of oil. Richmond was just bad because Dave Rogers
made a terrible pit call but Kyle folded as soon as he realized that it
wasn't working. I thought Dave Rogers was going to be let go as Kyle's
crew chief the next day and he made it all the way through the 2014
season. Him missing the Chase stung much more when he was the only
driver who could challenge Jimmie and Brad for most of the Chase.

2013: Lack of speed and Kansas. Kansas might have been his worst race
ever. They missed the set-up at Martinsville and he sped at Texas, but
other than that they were pretty much a 5th place car most of the Chase
and he finished 4th in points.

2014: For 8 races this was one of his better Chases. Started out with 5
top 10s in a row, not flashy but doing what he had to do, including a
great recovery with a heavily damaged car to finish 8th at Loudon and
getting his first top 5 ever at Kansas. Then the Talladega wreck
happened, which was brutal and not his fault. Could've finished much
higher in points after another incredible comeback at Texas to finish
4th, but crashed at Phoenix and had a mechanical failure at Homestead.
Was not championship caliber, but could easily have finished higher than
10th in points.

2015: He again just did what he had to do to advance (barely in the
first two rounds), and then let the competition take themselves out to
get to Homestead. In some ways there was a swap between Kyle and Matt
Kenseth in that Kyle just posted solid result after solid result and
saved his best race for last while Matt got in a big feud and lost his
head completely. Scored top 5s in all three races of the third round and
then drove the best race of his career to win the title at Homestead.
Had 6 top 5s in the last 8 races, including 3 of the elimination races
(counting Homestead).


  138.   88&4Fan posted:
  02.07.2016 - 3:50 pm
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This would be the last time that Sterling Marlin finished a race. He ran
seven races in 2009 but S&Ped or had legitimate problems in all of them.


  139.   kup posted:
  11.16.2017 - 2:30 pm
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UPS: universal points system.
Driver's UPoints = Miles / Aver.Finish
2008
UPS _ Driver = Miles / AF
1499 Carl Edwards 14244 / 9.5
1371 Jimmie Johnson 14392 / 10.5

&

TOTAL: UPS! 60 years 1949-2008:
Dale Earnhardt 8 in: '80, '86, '87, '89, '91, '93, '94, '95.
Richard Petty 7 in: '63, '64, '67, '71, '72, '75, '79.
Lee Petty 5 in: '50, '52, '54, '58, '59.
David Pearson 4 in: '66, '68, '69, '76.
Jeff Gordon 4 in: '98, '01, '04, '07. - every 3rd year
Cale Yarborough 3 in: '74, '77, '78.
Bobby Allison 3 in: '81, '82, '83.
Mark Martin 3 in: '90, '97, '02.
Buck Baker 2 in: '56, '57.
Rex White 2 in: '60, '61.
Terry Labonte 2 in: '84, '96.
Bill Blair 1 in: '49.
Fonty Flock 1 in: '51.
Herb Thomas 1 in: '53.
Tim Flock 1 in: '55.
Joe Weatherly 1 in: '62.
Ned Jarrett 1 in: '65.
Bobby Isaac 1 in: '70.
Benny Parsons 1 in: '73.
Darrell Waltrip 1 in: '85.
Bill Elliott 1 in: '88.
Alan Kulwicki 1 in: '92.
Dale Jarrett 1 in: '99.
Bobby Labonte 1 in: '00.
Matt Kenseth 1 in: '03.
Tony Stewart 1 in: '05.
Jimmie Johnson 1 in: '06.
Carl Edwards 1 in: '08.


  140.   RaceFanX posted:
  01.12.2018 - 9:20 am
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Chip Ganassi Racing and Dale Earnhardt, Inc. announced just days before
this race their teams would be merging together to form a new team named
Earnhardt Ganassi Racing with Felix Sabates. Juan Pablo Montoya leads
two laps and finishes in the top-20 as Chip Ganassi Racing runs its last
race with Dodge cars before switching to Chevrolets, like DEI ran in
2009. Reed Sorenson qualified in the top-10 in the last race for the
Target #41 Dodge, a team that had been around since 2002 with that
sponsor/number combination, but finished well back; the team disbanded
for 2009 with the Target sponsorship moving over to Montoya's surviving
#42 squad.


  141.   Kellen posted:
  04.20.2018 - 7:57 pm
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Last race for the #8 in the Cup Series until RCR brings the number back
to life for rookie Daniel Hemric at the April Richmond race in 2018.


  142.   Stephen posted:
  04.20.2018 - 8:01 pm
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^Easy to forget, but the 8 ran the first 7 races of 2009 before folding.


  143.   BMan0213 posted:
  04.20.2018 - 8:01 pm
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Actually it's not. EGR ran the 8 for Aric in the first 7 races in 2009
until they had to shut the team down due to lack of sponsorship. Not
100% but it looks like the first Texas race in 2009 was the last race
for the 8 in the Cup series until this weekend


  144.   JSPorts posted:
  04.20.2018 - 9:04 pm
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Yes, that is correct. Almirola had a dismal first 7 races for EGR that
season, with an average finish of 32.9 in the first 7 races. He was 37th
in points when the team folded.


  145.   Wot posted:
  04.20.2018 - 9:58 pm
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Nope, the last race was Texas in 2009


  146.   Minnowfur posted:
  05.11.2018 - 9:54 pm
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My top 10 favourite races in 2008

1.New Hampshire first one
2.Talladega chase race
3.New Hampshire chase race
4.Bristol first one
5.Richmond second one
6.Bristol Night race
7.Martinsville first one
8.Pheonix chase race
9.Lowes chase race
10.Richmond first one


  147.   NascarLeadLapPoints posted:
  07.03.2019 - 2:08 am
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Free Passes

Caution 1: #10-Allmendinger
Caution 2: #21-Elliott
Caution 3: #9-Kahne
Caution 4: #16-Biffle
Caution 5: #66-Riggs
Caution 6: #28-Kvapil
Caution 7: #12-Newman


  148.   Chase9Fan posted:
  08.09.2019 - 9:54 am
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Going back reading old races. This race marked the first season since
Gordon's rookie season that he did not win a race.


  149.   SweetRich posted:
  07.06.2020 - 8:53 pm
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The last race for long-time car owner Bill Davis.


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