|| *Comments on the 2009 LifeLock.com 400:* View the most recent comment <#61> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Darrell posted: 07.12.2009 - 9:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Perhaps the most memorable moment of this race was Michael Waltrip flipping off Reed Sorenson. 2. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2009 - 9:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Someone won a million dollars this race because Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon finish 1 and 2 in this race like they did at Michigan. 3. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2009 - 9:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know how much longer will Gibbs will put up with Kyle Busch. He tried to blow up his engine on pit road because he was running bad. The 2nd and 3rd debris cautions appeared to be "fake". I think Nascar didn't want Mark to win this race. The first debris caution was due to a part off a car and I think it is a spring. I forgot what part of a car it was for sure according to what the announcers said on TNT. Mark had the fastest car all night. Mark had the most laps he lead in a race since he led 227 at Atlanta. I don't know if this is the last win for Mark in 2009. It doesn't seem like it though. If Mark isn't in the chase this year, I wouldn't be surprise that Nascar make a change for 2010 for the chase Since Montoya has 0 top 5's and Mark has 4 wins right now. 4. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2009 - 11:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) The Old Man kicked their asses again! Four wins for Mark. It is so nice to see somebody classy and deserving doing so well, although he is still on the cha$e cutoff. More fake debris cautions that make NASCAR seem like the WWF. It is totally manufactured and phony. They tried like hell to screw Mark out of this race. Two fake cautions and one after David Reutimann just scraped the wall. And what was up with all the commercials? Me and my buddies timed it. 5 minutes of TV coverage at a time. FIVE MINUTES!!! It's time for NASCAR to lower their broadcasting fees, this is ridiculous. On lap 37 they went to their THIRD commercial break in a green flag race. Ridiculous. Everyone lost their heads at the end there. Vickers could have gone to the front and checked out, but he got loose and went way up the track. No surprise there. He doesn't deserve the good equipment he has been given in his career. Hamlin paid Jimmie back for the Martinsville bump. Jimmie body slammed Kurt Busch AGAIN, and Kurt rammed him back. Stale Bread spun Sideways Sam out. Dale Jr screwed up a RARE good night for Paul Menard. I think it is ironic that Tony Eury Jr was crew chiefing the car driven by Brad Keselowski which clearly outperformed Dale Jr at the end although it is just a part time effort with a rookie driver. He was gonna finish in the Top 10 but he got a flat tire in the melee. If there was any justice in the world, he would replace Dale Jr in the #88 next year, but the sponsors would never go for that. He should be the real rookie of the year. Stale Bread gets lapped every week. Kyle Busch hits the wall numerous times then tries blows it up on purpose leaving pit road. He is such a baby. I hope he misses the cha$e. And this wave around rule is a bunch of freaking crap. It is socialism, pure and simple. They are just trying to keep everyone on the lead lap, just like they try to keep 12 people in the championship hunt with the cha$e. NASCAR offers no reward for being fast early. You drive like hell to lap cars, then NASCAR just lets them right back into it. This is truly the world's worst reality show. 5. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2009 - 12:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin Truex Jr.'s car was found to high after post race inspection. The source is http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=4321873 . I wonder if the 1 team will getting as harsh as a penalty as Carl Long's team did? The team owner of Carl Long's team was suspended for 8 races, driver was suspended for 8 races, crew chief was suspended for 8 races, and was fined $200,000. 6. Jackie posted: 07.12.2009 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another crap run for#88.Next thing you know McGrew will be getting hate mail. 7. Rusty posted: 07.12.2009 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I feel bad for Paul Menard, he had a top 10 run before getting his tire torn apart by Dale Jr. 8. Mike posted: 07.12.2009 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch was a 30th place car all day then the engine finally went. The so called greatest driver in NASCAR may miss the chase. LOL! Mark Martin will easily win the championship if they can get the bad luck knocked out of the way. Mark would be leading the points right now if it wasn't for the bad luck he's had. 9. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2009 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon get Million Dollar Bonuses after Gordon manages to move from 10th to 2nd in the closing laps. 10. Baker posted: 07.12.2009 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Nascar trying to control another race. 11. petty43 posted: 07.12.2009 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) dsff, it is not ironic, junior just is not as good as brad. junior is no longer an elite or even average driver, hes just ok. no more excuses brad ran better with inferior equipment and the old crew chief who is supposedly no good, and now a 50 year old driver has 4 wins in his first 19 races at hendrick while junior has one fluke win in a year and a half with the same equipment. Also mark had only 4 wins in 9 years since 2000. he could end up with his best year since his big 98 if gets more consistent. Looks like the cot is starting to get a little more racy and night races are definately better for grip. 12. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.12.2009 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this is what I said after the Michigan race "as someone who Mark was my favorite driver until he stopped racing full time and still consider myself a fan of his (along with Carl of course)I can tell you that's typical Mark Martin. Mark could go out and dominate 10 races and not win 1 of them, but than go out and win a race he has no business winning. That's how it has always going for the guy." so you could imagine what I was thinking with 40 to go. Matter of fact, the whole night I was thinking "he's going to lose this one somehow" If you told be at the start of the season that of my 2 drivers, one was going to have 4 wins and the other was going to have 0 going into Indy, I would of bet the ranch it was the other way around (Carl with 4 wins and Mark with 0). watching this race NASCAR deserves a big thumbs up and a big thumbs down: thumbs up: the double file restart. Maybe the best decision NASCAR has made in the last 15 years. thumbs down: we heard the COT was going to cure areo push. Last night looked like Indy 1995. Nobody could pass for the lead once somebody got out front. Look at Martin and Johnson. Whoever was out front was faster. Heck, the leaders had trouble passing lapped cars. Also was surprised to see so few guys take the chance to pit with 20 to go. they had about 20 green flag laps on their tires at the time. and looking at Gordon, it looked like more guys should of pit. 13. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2009 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Mark Martin will easily win the championship if they can get the bad luck knocked out of the way. Mark would be leading the points right now if it wasn't for the bad luck he's had." don't know about that. Stewart is in the top 5 every week 14. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.12.2009 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle Busch was a 30th place car all day then the engine finally went. The so called greatest driver in NASCAR may miss the chase. LOL!" last night showed what Busch's problem is. If things are not going his way he losses his cool. Kyle is a front runner. if he has car capable of winning, he has as good of a chance as anybody. But if he only has a 12th place car, he will turn it into a 25th place car. 15. 18fan posted: 07.12.2009 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle screwed up his car by hitting the wall. Mark by far had the field covered. After the race, Kurt said he's starting to lose faith in Jimmie's ability to be a three time champion on the track. Jimmie was desperate after getting bumped by Denny. Montoya has 9 top 10s, but no top 5s. He should be 12th in the chase if he makes it. More manufactured cautions, just to help Jimmie win, and it didn't. Jeff Gordon uses a timely four tire change to finish second and give a couple a million bucks. Roush continues to struggle on the tracks they dominated last year. Childress, with the exception of Bowyer, was out to lunch once again. Sorenson had a top 15 car and sped on pit road then didn't serve a penalty and lost another lap. Kyle actually had lost a cylinder before he pitted and apparently tried to break his car. 16. Red posted: 07.12.2009 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR offers no reward for being fast early. You drive like hell to lap cars, then NASCAR just lets them right back into it." I've been thinking exactly the same thing lately. We might as well just make the race a 50 lap shootout, because the first 80% of the race doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. For example, when the phony debris caution was thrown on lap 212, Marcos Ambrose was two laps down, yet he ended up finishing 11th because NASCAR handed him both of his laps back, even though he did NOTHING to earn them. I love Marcos, but that was bullshit. Same thing with Mikey. He was a 35th place car all night and then wave-arounded his way to a 20th place finish. When drivers are rewarded for running poorly, that compromises the integrity of the sport. Unfortunately, integrity is a foreign concept to Brian France. On a more positive note, the last 30 laps were very exciting. It was great to see guys going for the win instead of racing for points. 17. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.12.2009 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Roush continues to struggle on the tracks they dominated last year" speaking of which, will the new Ford engine catch them up? I think I heard it will be ready in time for the chase. 18. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.12.2009 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dale Jr screwed up a RARE good night for Paul Menard. I think it is ironic that Tony Eury Jr was crew chiefing the car driven by Brad Keselowski which clearly outperformed Dale Jr at the end although it is just a part time effort with a rookie driver. He was gonna finish in the Top 10 but he got a flat tire in the melee. If there was any justice in the world, he would replace Dale Jr in the #88 next year, but the sponsors would never go for that. He should be the real rookie of the year. Stale Bread gets lapped every week." What was better yet was the 25 car got better as the night went on and Jr. got worse as usual and I thought it was Eury's fault that the 88 always got worse throughout the race? 19. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2009 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Mark Martin had Jeff Gordon's racing luck he would have six championships by now. He would have won it 1989, 1990, 1997, 1998, 2002, and 2004. I'm with you carledwards99, I was wondering how bad luck was gonna bite Mark in this race, and it almost happened thanks to the Socialists in the control tower. But he actually got some good luck in the end as all hell broke loose ahead of him and he regained the lead. If Kasey Kahne ever gets in elite equipment watch out. If he's running this well with a team in major transition, imagine what he could do at Hendrick or a Hendrick satellite team. Marcos Ambrose has arrived. If that organization continues to improve, he could be a cha$e competitor next year. I think he'll win at Watkins Glen. I can't believe the #1 team screwed up the templates AGAIN!! That is why Truex is getting the hell out of EGR. I know Montoya is up in the points, but he has no Top 5s. He is taking the "21st Century RCR Approach" to making the cha$e. And he's avoided a lot of bad luck. "dsff, it is not ironic, junior just is not as good as brad. junior is no longer an elite or even average driver, hes just ok. no more excuses brad ran better with inferior equipment and the old crew chief who is supposedly no good, and now a 50 year old driver has 4 wins in his first 19 races at hendrick while junior has one fluke win in a year and a half with the same equipment." I totally agree. When I said it is ironic, I was being coy. It is funny that Brad's car improved throughout the night, something Tony Eury Jr allegedly couldn't do, while Dale Jr faded from the Top 10 to about 20th, only to get a 15th due to attrition. 20. Mike posted: 07.12.2009 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have no clue what is going on with the 88 team. Jr has proven in the past he has talent and can win so I've thrown that part out the window. Obviously Tony Eury Jr was not the issue as once again we saw the 88 have a possible winning car and they made an adjustment and it sent them backwards. I have no clue whats going on but whatever is going on needs to be fixed. 21. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2009 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The IRL has had the wave around for years. It's only a free pass if those guys get another yellow. Otherwise they have to pit again under green. I guess we could have the leader restarting 10th like in the past. Everyone complained about that too and rightfully so because it caused wrecks. Until NASCAR starts scoring the pace car, if you're in front of the leader you're on the lead lap. Complain about the bogus cautions instead. That's what got everyone back on the lead lap, as well as turning a perfectly clean race into a demo derby. Paul Menard was the biggest victim. I felt so bad for him. 22. Kit posted: 07.12.2009 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne has been in a crappy situation for the past couple of seasons yet can still keep his cool and do the best he can when a situation doesn't go his way. Kryle Busch, on the other hand, would rather blow up a race engine worth probably $100,000 built by the shop boys when things don't exactly go his way. Hilarious. Kahne can see the big picture. Everyone who's been on the Kryle Busch bandwagon ought to support Kahne instead. It'd be great if Labonte gets back in the #18 car. Kahne will get better equipment in his career. There's really no excuse for him not to when guys like Logano, Busch, Earnhardt Jr. are just keeping their seats warm. 23. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2009 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 07.12.09 - 7:35 pm is correct about the IRL have the green wave. It is the right thing to do instead of having cars a front of the leader. The only thing people need to bitch about in terms of rules or Nascar officials is bogus cations and it's consistency to enforce rules. 24. Bronco posted: 07.12.2009 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Mark Martin had Jeff Gordon's racing luck he would have six championships by now. He would have won it 1989, 1990, 1997, 1998, 2002, and 2004" I agree about 1990, 2002 and maybe even 1997, but the others? In 1989 Rusty and Dale both cleared Mark by about 100 points. In 1998 Jeff was untouchable, his record of 17 straight top 5s and 13 wins will never be reached. And 2004? Mark had one win that season while Dale Jr, Jimmie, and Jeff won over half the races. He never even led the points that year while those three all did. This wasn't a very exciting race, but the last few laps were. I was pulling for Mark, but I wouldn't mind seeing Hamlin or Kahne somehow win it. Paul Menard's wreck was sad to see. The guy rarely runs in the top 20, and here he was running 8th at his home track and gets taken out. Interesting fact about Shrub. Last year at this point he won Atlanta, Talladega, Darlington, Dover, Sonoma, Daytona and Chicago. This year he hasn't finished any of those races in the top 10, and has lead lap finishes only at Sonoma and Daytona. I'm glad Mark won, but I don't think his team will really contend for the championship. They have lots of wins, but no consistency, just like Shrub. That's fine by me, I'll enjoy seeing a veteran take wins away from the young punks. 25. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.13.2009 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I agree about 1990, 2002 and maybe even 1997, but the others? In 1989 Rusty and Dale both cleared Mark by about 100 points. In 1998 Jeff was untouchable, his record of 17 straight top 5s and 13 wins will never be reached. And 2004? Mark had one win that season while Dale Jr, Jimmie, and Jeff won over half the races. He never even led the points that year while those three all did." Actually in 1989, Mark was in the hunt towards the end. He had a mathematical shot at it going in to the last race at Atlanta. So they used and experimental engine package and it went up in flames. Literally. If he doesn't get caught in the Daytona 500 wreck and doesn't lose the wheel at Sears Point, he could use a normal package at Atlanta to secure the title like Rusty did. In 1998 Jeff won 13 races, but not many of them were dominating wins. In fact Mark led about the same number of laps as Jeff that year. He just seemed to be there at the end to win. If Jeff could have had a little more bad luck and Mark a little more good luck, it could have happened. In 2004 he only won once, but so did Matt Kenseth the year before. He had a mathematical shot at the title going in to Homestead. If Jimmy Spencer didn't act like Jimmy Spencer at the fall Charlotte race and turn Mark's Top 3 run into a 13th or get shuffled back at Talladega, he could have won it. 26. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.13.2009 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) good call DaleSr on 1998. people always talk about Gordon that year but forget how great Mark was also. I would also like to add 1999. Mark lost by 319 points that year to Dale Jarrett. Only bad races Jarrett had was Daytona 500 and the night Bristol race where in both races he got caught in a wreck Mark on the other hand had 4 bad races He got caught in the same wreck Jarrett did in the Daytona 500, blew a tire and wrecked while leading at Texas, blew a engine while in the top 5 at Fontana and blew a engine at Richmond of all place while running in the top 10. What if Mark only had 2 bad races like Jarrett? All of suddenly it's a real tight points race. But what if Mark got lucky for once and only had 1 bad race? Or you could say it doesn't even have to be luck since Mark takes care of his stuff better than anybody, shouldn't all things equal he have less bad races than anybody else? If that's the case (Mark only had 1 bad race) than he wins the title that year. 27. Anonymous posted: 07.14.2009 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Vickers could have gone to the front and checked out, but he got loose and went way up the track. No surprise there." DaleSrFanForever, I can agree with that. Vickers seems to be another Jamie McMurray, starting the year in the chase and fading in the middle before making a comeback falling just short of making it back in. Vickers also seems to come close to winning some races but finds a way to lose...or wrecks the leader to win. Also worth noting that this race is the 27th time that Hendrick has had a 1-2 finish in a Cup race and the 4th time this year. Gibbs is the only other team to have a 1-2 finish in Cup this season (Bristol). The highest finishing Ford was 14th although Menard appeared he was going to be the top Ford with a top 10. 28. BON GORDON posted: 07.14.2009 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Being succssesful in racing takes a little luck. The comments I read about are just rediculous from DaleSrFanForever. It doesnt matter how domintating your wins are as long as you win. 1998 was Jeff Gordon's year, Sorry. In 2004 Mark Martin had no chance of winning the championship, COME ON! There's too much coulda, woulda, shoulda going on around here. Mark Martin is a great driver (my second favorite driver) but I beleive in the saying, "If it's meant to be, it's meant to be." It hasn't been meant to be so far but maybe things will change this year and Mark could finally win a title. It takes consistensy and so far Mark has been up and down. 29. hyperacti posted: 07.14.2009 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard was running 7th at one point before he got wrecked, he was even still going forward at that time though. He could have even challenged the top three, who knows. I guess a little bell rang in his head when he heard he might be out at Yates so he ramped it up for this race. Maybe we'll see more of him at Indy, its the kind of track Yates performs well on sometimes. 30. Josh posted: 07.14.2009 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great race, even though I was sleeping and missed the first quarter of it. Martin is doing awsome this year, great to see him winning, he just needs to finish better when he doens't win. One things that I have noticed all year about Jr...they never talk about how great his pit crew is. I think if his crew was better, he might have better performances, you always see him losing spots on pit road. Fix that Hendrick! and we might see Jr start running near the front more. Also, the highlight of the the night was when Denny bumped Johnson out of the way with 17 laps to go. I almost turned it, but had a feeling something was gonna happen. Then Kurt slammed Johnson after that moron showed how much he can't drive a car, then blamed Gordon for getting him loose, Johnson just can't really control a car very well when he is in alot of traffic going high rates of speed I am beginning to believe. 31. Jay posted: 07.15.2009 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne scored his first top-10 finish at Chicagoland; he has now scored a top-10 finish on every series oval track. 32. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.15.2009 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1998 was Jeff Gordon's year, Sorry." My point there is the fact that it is bad luck that Mark had his best year in the same season Jeff had one of the best years in the history of NASCAR. People forget just how good Mark was that year. If he had luck, Jeff would have had that 13 win year year in '96 or '99 instead. "In 2004 Mark Martin had no chance of winning the championship, COME ON! There's too much coulda, woulda, shoulda going on around here." Too much woulda coulda should in 2004? You've got to be kidding me!! Look at the champion Kurt Busch. How many woulda coulda shouldas did he have the other way? He spun out at Charlotte twice, Kansas, and Phoenix but recovered for good finishes. He had a horrible car at Darlington and was saved by a GREAT pit stop late, and HAD AN ENTIRE FREAKING TIRE COME OFF AT HOMESTEAD AND MISSED THE WALL BY FOUR INCHES!! Mark finished just 107 points behind. Imagine if Mark had HALF of that luck. With the problems everyone else had, it would have been easy. "but I beleive in the saying, "If it's meant to be, it's meant to be."" I agree. That is actually the point of my post. It just hasn't been meant to be for Mark. If it would have not be specifically meant NOT to be for him all those years, he would have six championships. Trust me, I know all about fate in racing. Rooting for Dale Earnhardt, I got a hard lesson in that for many Februarys. 33. Kit posted: 07.15.2009 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've said this several times on the web site and I'll go ahead and say it again since the topic is up. I don't think Mark Martin was ever aggressive enough as a driver to close the deal on a championship. When I've seen him win, he always lays back until the very end when he knows for sure he has a car that can win, then he competes. I mean, hell, Alan Kulwicki won a championship with far less equipment than Martin, and Martin's just as good of a driver. Martin has come close so many times to winning a championship that I think it's a driver issue than an equipment issue (although Roush's cheating contributed to this). 34. Bronco posted: 07.15.2009 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Martin has come close so many times to winning a championship that I think it's a driver issue than an equipment issue" It's neither. It's a matter of luck. Mark would have won it way back in 1990 had it not been for that costly Richmond penalty. In the 90s he came close so many times, but each time one or two other guys would beat him. As DaleSrFan pointed out, Mark had an incredible 1998 season, but it just so happened that Jeff Gordon's 1998 was even more incredible. And 2002 really should have been his. Were it not for a blown engine at Kansas, a problem on the pace laps at Talladega and a penalty at Rockingham Mark would have had it. The Labonte brothers and Kenseth were never aggressive in their championship years, yet both sealed it up by killing the competition with top 10s. 35. Red posted: 07.16.2009 - 12:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe I'm crazy, but I think all the near misses in Mark Martin's career have actually added to his legacy. Because he's always in the hunt, and because he's had so much bad luck, most people (including me) seem to believe that he "should" have won several championships by now. In addition, his graciousness in defeat has probably endeared him to fans in a way that winning may not have. Had Mark won the 1990 title that many believe NASCAR stole from him, he'd probably be remembered as just another guy with one championship, in the same vein as Rusty Wallace or Dale Jarrett. But since he's never actually won a title, we can inflate his relevance in history based on what might have been. That being said, I still think he's one of the top 25 drivers in NASCAR history. 36. Anonymous posted: 07.16.2009 - 11:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin Harvick was having a great run late in the going when his power steering went out. (hear it on tnt racebuddy and also his hotpass channel on directtv). 37. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2009 - 12:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And 2002 really should have been his. Were it not for a blown engine at Kansas, a problem on the pace laps at Talladega and a penalty at Rockingham Mark would have had it." That is true, but to me the biggest factor if that NASCAR should have black flagged Tony Stewart at Watkins Glen. The restart cone was halfway down the front straightaway. He restarted just after exiting Turn 10, more than a quarter mile early. A few years before that, they black flagged Rusty for a late race restart at Martinsville that was much closer to the restart area than Tony was at the Glen. 38. Kit posted: 07.16.2009 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's neither. It's a matter of luck." Yeah, right. Other drivers have had bad luck as well. Martin could have made his own luck. He probably could have switched over to Gibbs or Hendrick whenever he wanted to. You can't tell me that the only reason Mark Martin hasn't won a championship while Stewart, Kenseth, Labonte, Jarrett, etc. has is only because of luck. "Mark would have won it way back in 1990 had it not been for that costly Richmond penalty." That has nothing to do with luck; that's Rousch cheating. "In the 90s he came close so many times, but each time one or two other guys would beat him. As DaleSrFan pointed out, Mark had an incredible 1998 season, but it just so happened that Jeff Gordon's 1998 was even more incredible." Again, that has nothing to do with luck. He GOT beat! 39. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.16.2009 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Maybe I'm crazy, but I think all the near misses in Mark Martin's career have actually added to his legacy. Because he's always in the hunt, and because he's had so much bad luck, most people (including me) seem to believe that he "should" have won several championships by now. In addition, his graciousness in defeat has probably endeared him to fans in a way that winning may not have. Had Mark won the 1990 title that many believe NASCAR stole from him, he'd probably be remembered as just another guy with one championship, in the same vein as Rusty Wallace or Dale Jarrett. But since he's never actually won a title, we can inflate his relevance in history based on what might have been. That being said, I still think he's one of the top 25 drivers in NASCAR history." Red, you are not crazy, you are 100% correct. 40. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.16.2009 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Martin could have made his own luck. He probably could have switched over to Gibbs or Hendrick whenever he wanted to." when he did finally go to Hendrick his luck still sucked. 41. Anonymous posted: 07.16.2009 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) didn't win a championship because he and his team were never better than everyone else all at once ...what i mean is, he was always 2nd best. he'll win it this year though. 42. Bronco posted: 07.16.2009 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He probably could have switched over to Gibbs or Hendrick whenever he wanted to." The question is, why would he want to? If Mark took over the 18 car instead of Bobby Labonte, it would have been at that time a huge step down since the 6 team was much further ahead than the 18. If Mark went to Hendrick, he would have been put with the 25 team, which didn't do anything since Tim Richmond left. What Mark did by staying with the 6 team made sense. When you've come so close to the championship so many times, you go into the next year feeling that it might be it. Unfortunately it didn't turn out that way for Mark, but I can't argue with his rationale. "when he did finally go to Hendrick his luck still sucked." Exactly. California, Vegas and Atlanta ruined Mark pointswise. Getting caught up in the Big One at Talladega didn't help either. If Mark doesn't make the cha$e he only needs to look at those races to know why. The bottom line is Mark has been plagued by bridesmaid syndrome, he always ends up so close, yet so far away from his goals. "You can't tell me that the only reason Mark Martin hasn't won a championship while Stewart, Kenseth, Labonte, Jarrett, etc. has is only because of luck." It may be hard to believe, but that sure seems to be the case. Look at Kenseth's 2003 season. He only had two DNFs, both engine related. The first was at Kansas, and the second was at Homestead where they ran an experimental engine since they had already clinched the championship. In comparison, Burton and Martin had 4 engine failures, while Busch had 5. If Kenseth had as many faulty engines as his teammates, it very well could have been Dale Jr or Johnson as the champ for that year. Stewart had a healthy dose of luck in 2002 due to Mark and Sterling's late season problems, and due to the fact the Johnson's team didn't have the championship type experience. 43. Kit posted: 07.17.2009 - 2:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "he'd probably be remembered as just another guy with one championship, in the same vein as Rusty Wallace or Dale Jarrett" Since when has this become a bad thing???? 44. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.17.2009 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""You can't tell me that the only reason Mark Martin hasn't won a championship while Stewart, Kenseth, Labonte, Jarrett, etc. has is only because of luck." Not ONLy because of luck, but it is a big part of it, like Bronco explained. Those drivers are all elite championship caliber drivers. Mark is too, in fact he's better than 3 of those talent wise has the best view of the big picture. 45. Kit posted: 07.19.2009 - 1:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "has the best view of the big picture." Then why hasn't he won a championship? Luck is a factor but not the only factor considering he's lost out at least five times. Honestly I think he should have more wins that he does. To me, it always seemed like when he had a top 5 or a top 10 car, he wouldn't push himself enough for the win. Those extra five or ten points would have helped tremendously considering that he already had the consistency. Plus he stayed at Roush for too long. 46. Kit posted: 07.19.2009 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Mark took over the 18 car instead of Bobby Labonte, it would have been at that time a huge step down since the 6 team was much further ahead than the 18." The #18 won a championship. The #6 did not. "If Mark went to Hendrick, he would have been put with the 25 team, which didn't do anything since Tim Richmond left." Mark is almost as good of a driver as Richmond and who knows what would have happened had he got in the #25 car. Hendrick might have thrown EVERYTHING at the team. 47. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.19.2009 - 10:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Then why hasn't he won a championship?" The same reason it took Dale Earnhardt 20 years to win the Daytona 500. Sometimes all the tools are in place, and it just doesn't happen. I think Mark is more aggressive than he is given credit for. I remember his win at the Coke 600 in 2002. He was slicing through lapped traffic like crazy, outrunning Matt Kenseth who had a better car at the end. He just waits and picks his spots. 48. Bronco posted: 07.19.2009 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The #18 won a championship. The #6 did not." Yeah, but the #18 won a championship in 2000. My point is, if Mark had gone to the #18, say after 1994 (after finishing 2nd in points again) he would have been taking a big step down from the #6 car. The #18 team didn't become championship caliber until the late 90s, which is when Mark was still in the thick of the championship hunt, so there was no point in switching teams. 49. Kit posted: 07.20.2009 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, but the point remains that Mark could have went to the #18 and won a championship in the late 90s. 50. Anonymous posted: 07.20.2009 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, Part of the problem with the 18 team was the drivers. 1.) Mark Martin is more talented driver than Bobby Labonte was in his prime and was much better driver overall. Bobby made Gibbs a great cookie cutter team. Dale Jarrett was not as good at Atlanta as Labonte was. Bobby was not a road course and short tracks wasn't exactly his strength. Bobby was a great cookie cutter driver. Bobby could do well at places like Rockingham, Darlington, Pocono,Indy, and Dover in his prime. 2.) Dale Jarrett was a great driver in prime. Mark was better than Dale Jarrett at Qualifying and road courses and a slightly better short track driver. Mark also was the better driver at 1 mile tracks. Dale Jarrett was a better at plate racing than Mark and was even stronger at Indy and Pocono than Mark was. The catch with Dale is Dale was great at horsepower tracks and Mark was to. There is a big difference. Yates had the best ford engines for horsepower. Roush engines were not as good Yates during Jarrett's prime there. Yates even had the edge in horse power over Roush during the Davy Allison years. Mark had great set ups in his car to make the horsepower difference. 51. Anonymous posted: 07.20.2009 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, You have to put into consideration that Mark was the better than Jeff Gordon was during Jeff's 1998 season in terms of talent. The proof is I heard and read multiple times through out the years that Mark and Jeff tried each others race car during a test in 1998. Mark was faster in Jeff's car than Jeff was. Jeff had a difficult time in Mark's car because the fact Mark had loose setup. Mark was faster in his car than Jeff was while using the loose set up. I recalled Jeff saying to the affect that "the engine on the 6 is weaker than the 24 car was and Mark made the car faster than it really is. That means Mark could get the 18 car into the top 5 in points multiple times before the late 90's and be a title contender. Mark was able to make equipment better than it really is. You didn't need top engines with Mark back in the 1990's. Dale Jarrett and Bobby Labonte wasn't quite that type of a driver than Mark was in terms of carrying equipment that high in points. Dale Jarrett and Bobby were capable of taking doing great with top notch equipment including horsepower. Bobby could be make a team better than it really was like he did with the 43 car, but not the point Mark could. 52. Red posted: 07.21.2009 - 1:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Then why hasn't he won a championship? Luck is a factor but not the only factor considering he's lost out at least five times. Honestly I think he should have more wins that he does. To me, it always seemed like when he had a top 5 or a top 10 car, he wouldn't push himself enough for the win. Those extra five or ten points would have helped tremendously considering that he already had the consistency." I totally agree with this. A driver can get screwed by luck a few times, but when it happens over and over to the same guy, you have to think there are other factors at work. What's bizarre to me is that Mark has always been known as a guy who's freakishly competitive and driven, yet he's one of the most conservative drivers on the circuit. If he wants to win so bad, why doesn't he take more chances to do so? This makes me think back to the 2007 Daytona 500. Mark could've moved Harvick up the track just a bit and probably won the race, but instead he let the biggest win of his career slip trough his fingers because he's too much of a gentlemen to do what it takes to win. I guess that's admirable, but that's why he's never won a championship. It's also the same reason why Jeff Settle-For-8th-Place Burton will never win a championship. 53. Kit posted: 07.21.2009 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Bobby was a great cookie cutter driver. Bobby could do well at places like Rockingham, Darlington, Pocono,Indy, and Dover in his prime." Rockingham, Darlington, Indy, and Dover are NOT cookie cutter tracks. 54. Anonymous posted: 07.21.2009 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kit, I didn't call Rockingham, Darlington, Indy and Dover Cookie Cutter tracks a first place. You didn't show the whole paragraph a first place. I type "Bobby was not a road course and short tracks wasn't exactly his strength. Bobby was a great cookie cutter driver. Bobby could do well at places like Rockingham, Darlington, Pocono,Indy, and Dover in his prime". I have two questions about your false accusation: 1.) Did it occur to you that I typing more than cookie tracks in the whole paragraph despite not mentioning what of race tracks Rockingham, Darlington, Pocono,Indy, and Dover are? 2.) Did it occur to you that since I didn't mention the type of tracks Rockingham, Darlington, Pocono,Indy, and Dover that I was talking about different types of tracks instead of Cookie cutter tracks a first place? 3.) Did it occur to you that I didn't want to type the names of the cookie cutter tracks a first place since it was 11:10 p.m. my time and I wanted to finish typing a couple posts soon as possible, since I type worse past 11:00 p.m. at times? 55. Anonymous posted: 07.22.2009 - 9:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kit, I wasn't giving excuses at the 10:35 p.m. I have. You took statements I made out of context in the past or refuse to read the whole paragraph before typing HAHAHAHAHA! to multiple posts of mine in the past. 56. Kit posted: 07.22.2009 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous, it is not my fault if you cannot write clearly enough with your audience in mind. You mentioned cookie cutter tracks then went on about Darlington, Indy, Pocono, and Dover. It seems like you were typing what you were thinking without realizing that others do not know what you are thinking and that you'd have to lead them there. Plus because you refuse to write in a name, I cannot distinguish you between other posters on here with or without a name. "You didn't show the whole paragraph a first place." What is this supposed to mean? The whole paragraph a first place? Seriously, dude, instead of getting bent out of shape because it's hard for me to read and understand you, just write more clearly. 57. Kit posted: 07.22.2009 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's exactly my point, Red. I've seen Martin drive, and he's just too damn conservative. When he has a top five car, he will keep it as a top five car instead of going for the win. Just look at his top 10s. He's had a TON of seasons with over 20 top ten finishes. Just looking at that alone, he should have multiple championships. But he doesn't because he plays it safe. Hell, why didn't he win a single race in 1996? He had 23 top 10s that year, with over half of them top 5s. 58. Daniel posted: 05.22.2012 - 10:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #64 Mike Wallace Out using fastest 43: #96 Bobby Labonte 59. CBASS posted: 02.03.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates #18 Mars Real Chocolate Relief Act #26 Sears Auto Center #82 Red Bull Cola #33 Cheerios "Race Fans" #36 Palermo's #39 America's Army 3/ U.S. Army #43 McCafe #42 Target/ Glad #19 Insignia/ Audyssey http://archives.ciastockphoto.com/cgi/images.php?group=w0921 60. LASTCAR posted: 04.24.2013 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave Blaney picked up the 10th last-place finish of his career in Saturday night's Lifelock.com 400 at the Chicagoland Speedway when his unsponsored #66 Prism Motorsports Toyota lost the engine after 10 of the race's 267 laps. On Thursday, Blaney qualified a solid 18th with a speed of 180.723 mph, making him the third-fastest car outside the top 35 in owner's points. However, despite running mid-pack in the early stages of Saturday's race, Blaney pulled behind the wall under green on lap 10 with engine problems. David Gilliland nearly took the finish from Blaney when he suffered transmission problems, but he completed one more lap than Blaney before heading to the garage. It is the first time Blaney has ever finished last in two consecutive points races. It is the third time a driver has finished last with an engine failure in 2009. With the finish, Blaney now sits 11th on the all-time list and became just the eighth driver ever to score five or more last-place finishes in a single season. The other seven are Jimmy Pardue (1961), Jimmy Helms (1965), Wayne Gillette (1969), J.D. McDuffie (1969), Derrike Cope (2003, 2006), Todd Bodine (2004), and Joe Ruttman (2004). As mentioned last week, Derrike Cope is the only driver with more than five in a single season: six in 2006. 2009 RANKINGS 1st) Dave Blaney (5) 2nd) Mike Bliss, Patrick Carpentier, David Gilliland, Tony Raines (2) 3rd) Todd Bodine, P.J. Jones, Matt Kenseth, Joey Logano, Mark Martin, Joe Nemechek (1) Visit http://brockbeard.blogspot.com/ for more. 61. Rich posted: 12.06.2020 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ralph Sheheen, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Adam Alexander, Matt Yocum, Lindsay Czarniak and Marty Snider were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Marc Fein was the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: