|| *Comments on the 2009 Heluva Good! Sour Cream Dips at The Glen:* View the most recent comment <#64> | Post a comment <#post> 1. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.10.2009 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Stremme is a damn joke. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in the past because he was driving Ganassi's clunkers, but he wrecks himself, wrecks others, or both every week now. He had a good qualifying run but fell like a rock, spun out Carpentier, then tried to go through the grass and caused a big pileup. Dale Earnhardt he is not. Why the hell did Roger Penske hire him? I thought Richard Childress hiring Casey Mears was the dumb move of the off season, but even he is doing better. Thank God everyone is alright in the Hornish Gordon Burton wreck. That was vicious. Kasey Kahne made a rare mistake and owned up to it immediately. That is the sign of a true racer. But it sounds like Gordon's back is really giving him fits. I wonder if he'll have to retire early because of this. Luckily Robby Gordon broke an oil line and had to spend most of the race getting back on the lead lap so he couldn't wreck anybody like he's been doing. Matt Kenseth gets a rare road course Top 15 after starting 42nd. I'm sure he would take that. 2. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.10.2009 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One other thing, could Kevin Harvick possibly want out of RCR any more? Compare his post wreck interview with Jeff Burton's. 3. Baker posted: 08.10.2009 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony whips them again. I'm really tired of all the Marcos Ambrose, Juan Montoya talk as the clear best road racers out there because the real king of the road is Tony Stewart. Just because his background isn't in road racing doesn't mean he isn't the best. He's been putting on a show for years now and is already #2 on the all time wins list ont he road....and he had a late start! I think the 48 team is still the man to beat for the championship, but aside from him I don't think there is a team out there that can threaten Stewart this year. It's going to be someone from the Hendrick camp though. 4. CarlEdwards99 posted: 08.10.2009 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wonder if he'll have to retire early because of this." that interview today was the first time I started to really believe the "Jeff Gordon will retire within the next few years" talk. I don't see him going through that pain for a few weeks every time he gets caught in a big wreck. If 8 was still a real possibility I could see him keep racing, but the fact is it's not. To put getting to 8 in perspective, he would have to win as many championships in the remainder of his career as he has won up to this point. Even Jeff knows that's not going to happen. 5. CarlEdwards99 posted: 08.10.2009 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) no official Hendrick cars in the top 10. and 2 of them got caught in wrecks (or in jr. case, a parts failure that led to a wreck) by the way, how convenient was it that NASCAR found a piece of debris when everybody was just on the edge of there pit window? 6. Eric posted: 08.10.2009 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stewart is 2nd to Gordon in Road Curse Wins with 7. Max Papis gets his first top 10 finish. Jeff Gordon's back is worse shape now than it was doing into the race afer his car hit the guardrail. Jeff claimed his back was starting to get better before the crash, and now it feels very sore. He needs to do something during the off season with it. Mark had a pretty bad back in around 1999. The way Jeff makes it sound throughout the season, it is very bad shape. I am sure Jeff is right on the crash not doing his back any favors. What happen to the Hendrick cars as a whole this weekend? Jeff had a difficult time being in the top 20 and his car sucked throughout the race weekend and Mark Martin's did too. Jimmie having the only good finish and weekend raises a question with the organization without counting Stewart. Are Mark And Jeff declining as road racers or Hendrick lost it on building road curse cars? The thing that gets me is Stewart had a great car and uses Hendrick equipment. 7. KyBushFan posted: 08.10.2009 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It looked like on the final lap alot of drivers would run out of gas but only Papis and Truex did. If all those cars would have run out gas Vickers could have jumped up and won. Good soild finish for Kyle Busch 58 points out of the chase. Their wasn't much Amborse could do after Tony got the lead. 8. Dion posted: 08.10.2009 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Max Papis (8th) and Marcos Ambrose (2nd) on their best career finishes... Andy Lally made his cup debut, only the 2nd driver to do that this year, and finished in 27th. Good race, and hope everyone is okay from the 77,24,31 accident. I am not a fan of the 24, but I would never want anyone to get hurt. Hope he is alright, especially with all those back issues. Side question for people... Say Jeff Gordon retires in a few years, what does Rick Hendrick do with the 24? Does he shut the team down, find a veteran to take over, or get a rookie to become a protege to Gordon. 9. Eric posted: 08.10.2009 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CarlEdwards99, There has been reports on Jeff Gordon's back being in very back shape since April or May. He had a procedure or a shot on his back earlier this year and he claimed it didn't help his back pain. Remember Jeff took a very nasty hit at Las Vegas last year. He hit were there was no safe barrier before this year after Jeff called out the race track. Jeff has admitted in the past that hit didn't do his back any favors. 10. Kit posted: 08.10.2009 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon has nothing to lose if he retires soon. I don't really see him catching up to David Pearson's win count at the rate he is going now, back and all. The Chase format really screwed up his chances at catching up to Dale Earnhardt. Even if Jeff won eight championships, the format is totally different now so you can't really compare them to Winston Cup. Kevin Harvick is an idiot. I don't see a greener pasture for him elsewhere. 11. hyperacti posted: 08.10.2009 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon has just had the absolute worst luck at the Glen the past few years. And he had worked his way swiftly into the top 15 when he had been involved in the first wreck. He was going to be running up front, but one wreck led him to being in position for another. 12. 18fan posted: 08.11.2009 - 1:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle's first top 5 since his Richmond win in May. I got tired of all we care about is Marcos Ambrose by ESPN. David Stremme should be fired immediately and replaced by Justin Allgaier. Nobody has mentioned Andy Lally's Sprint Cup debut. He was involved in the Gordon wreck and later got the free pass. Happy that Gilliland failed to qualify because he would have parked the car. First road course top 5s for Biffle and Edwards and first top 10 for Max Papis. Martin Truex ran out of gas on the final lap running in the top 10. The #55 car wrecks twice even without Michael Waltrip driving it. 13. Bronco posted: 08.11.2009 - 4:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "David Stremme is a damn joke. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in the past because he was driving Ganassi's clunkers, but he wrecks himself, wrecks others, or both every week now. He had a good qualifying run but fell like a rock, spun out Carpentier, then tried to go through the grass and caused a big pileup." Agreed. Like I said his performance this year has been a step backwards even from his days driving the 40 car and he seems to crash himself or others weekly. In fairness to him, I think they should keep him around for next year and look for improvement, the same way that Hornish was given an extra year to improve. Harvick and Dale Jr have no luck this year. One gets taken out by Stremme, one loses his brakes and pounds the wall like Felipe Massa did a few weeks ago at the Hungarian GP. I don't know how this season can get any worse as a Dale Jr fan. I wonder how some of you plan to connect him losing his brakes to a lack of focus. "He's been putting on a show for years now and is already #2 on the all time wins list on the road....and he had a late start!" I disagree, I think Jeff Gordon and Tim Richmond are the best road racers of all time. Jeff has more wins, and no one knew how to hustle a car around Riverside better than Tim. 14. David posted: 08.11.2009 - 8:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be really surprised if David Stremme is still driving that 12 car next year, he's done nothing but wreck just about every week. I'm far from a Kevin Harvick fan, but he told it straight-up when he said Stremme ran out of talent. I expected better from him in Penske's cars since the 40 at Ganassi was declining, but it turns out he's just not a good driver. With Justin Allgaier coming through the Nationwide ranks, I expect him to be in that car next year. 15. dUDE gUY posted: 08.11.2009 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was the second consecutive week that Jimmie Johnson started on the front row only to finish just outside the top ten. He started 2nd and finished 13th at Pocono, and statrted on the pole for this race only to end up finishing 12th. Well, the next race for Jimmie is Michigan, where he dominated earlier this year only to run out of fuel with just over a lap to go. 16. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.11.2009 - 12:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm far from a Kevin Harvick fan, but he told it straight-up when he said Stremme ran out of talent." It's a good thing Kevin has never caused any pileups on road courses by trying too hard. Right Tony Stewart fans? Yes Stremme ran out of talent, but to me this year shows all of the "Kevin has matured" talk is a bunch of crap. It is just that in the past few years he has had very little adversity with his long no DNF streak. Adversity hits this year with slow cars and bad luck and he has handled it poorly, already looking for a way out. Jeff Burton has showed how to handle the situation. He is in the same boat as Kevin but has handled it masterfully. He knows RCR will bounce back while Kevin is already freaking out. "I disagree, I think Jeff Gordon and Tim Richmond are the best road racers of all time. Jeff has more wins, and no one knew how to hustle a car around Riverside better than Tim." I agree with this. Tony is great, don't get me wrong. Tim never had the chance to show what he could truly do in superior equipment over a long period of time. Heck, he won the June Riverside race in 1987 while dying of AIDS. The problem with Jeff lately is that HMS doesn't have a good road course set up for the COT. Mark was invisible in this race and he 3 peated here once. Jimmie wins the pole then fell like a rock. "I wonder how some of you plan to connect him losing his brakes to a lack of focus." His lack of focus has led to them being out of cha$e contention which means he probably had an R&D brake package. "In fairness to him, I think they should keep him around for next year and look for improvement, the same way that Hornish was given an extra year to improve." If he were a rookie I would agree. 17. Kit posted: 08.11.2009 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but to me this year shows all of the "Kevin has matured" talk is a bunch of crap." Exactly. What Kevin Harprick said is something you might say in private but not openly in public. Like he has any room to talk, turning the #29 into a backmarker team just because the team isn't stellar this year. Total underachiever. Hell, the guy is in his 30s. If he hasn't matured by now, he never will. This is just his personality coming out. He tries to act all big and bad when he's not. He ain't shit. Hopefully he's already hit the peak of his Cup career because I'm tired of him. "I wonder how some of you plan to connect him losing his brakes to a lack of focus." He's 23rd in points with the best team in the sport and you're defending him? 18. good old boy posted: 08.11.2009 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) well.......... harvick is definitely acting like a spoiled kid again. he has a very over inflated opinion of himself, courtesy of delana, who believes he could be the champ in a hendrick car. baker.....before you get in a tizzy about marcos and jpm being overrated road course guys, remember that 1. ambrose was in a waltrip toyota with tires that had 50 laps on them, and 2. jpm was looking for a top 10 finish to get in the chase. smoke is great, but he is also in great equipment. finally, whoever said massa lost his brakes was wrong.....he got hit in the helmet by a spring which caused him to lose control and hit the wall. 19. Anonymous posted: 08.11.2009 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart is a legend 20. Bronco posted: 08.11.2009 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "finally, whoever said massa lost his brakes was wrong.....he got hit in the helmet by a spring which caused him to lose control and hit the wall. " I never said Felipe lost his brakes, I'm saying the way him and Dale Jr both zoomed into the tire barrier at full speed was kind of similar. As for Harvick, his comments are somewhat justified. He knows he hasn't won in almost 100 races, and he's pissed off with the crap cars he's getting and his rotten luck so the pressure is getting to him. I don't think RCR will bounce back soon either, since they have lost most of their Chevy support and are close to losing sponsors. "He's 23rd in points with the best team in the sport and you're defending him?" Best teams in the sport don't give their driver R&D equipment which is likely what he was driving that led to a brakes failure. Please don't tell me he cooked the brakes on purpose or something equally silly. He also has a Busch series win at the track and led a bunch of laps last year so he doesn't totally suck at Watkins Glen either. During the Indy broadcast they mentioned that the car Dale Jr was driving was the first one that Lance McGrew had built from scratch. I don't understand why Lance comes in at race 13, yet it takes until race 20 for a new car to hit the track. If everything he drove from Pocono to Chicago was a car that had finished in the top 5 or top 10 previously it would make sense, but why take so long to bring a new car to the track for a struggling yet well funded team? Another thing, will we ever see a race without a fake caution? Please? 21. Anonymous posted: 08.11.2009 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever , Jeff's back issue is with his nerves all season long according to Marty Smith. His back is stuff now according to Marty Smith after the Watkin's Glen crash. 22. Danny posted: 08.11.2009 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 350th career start for Matt Kenseth. 23. Kit posted: 08.11.2009 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As for Harvick, his comments are somewhat justified. He knows he hasn't won in almost 100 races, and he's pissed off with the crap cars he's getting and his rotten luck so the pressure is getting to him. I don't think RCR will bounce back soon either, since they have lost most of their Chevy support and are close to losing sponsors." Horseshit. Jeff Burton was winning races last year, where was Harvick? Being a crybaby. What rotten luck and pressure? You mean just this season? He wants out of his ride after one bad season? The guy is a crybaby. "Please don't tell me he cooked the brakes on purpose or something equally silly." I just think it's silly that you're going out of your way to defend a driver who only have three top 10s this year in Hendrick equipment. 24. Mamorese posted: 08.11.2009 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco the Brickyard 400 this year had no fake yellows, and it had a long green flag run in it. My guess is ESPN couldn't care less about showing it yesterday. 25. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.11.2009 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think RCR will bounce back soon either, since they have lost most of their Chevy support and are close to losing sponsors." RCR has been in way worse situations. If they can recover from 2002 they can get over this. With Jeff Burton and Clint Bowyer as their lead drivers they can be successful again. All they need is a decent driver for the 07. In 2002 their drivers were Kevin Harvick (who managed to get himself suspended from a Cup race that year), Jeff Green (another hothead that recently got thrown out of a Richmond race for hitting JJ under caution), and Robby Gordon (where do I even start with him?). Plus they were dealing with the emotional aftermath of losing Dale. Let's face it, in 2001 they were pretty much in shock. In 2002 it really set in that he was gone. But in 2003 Kevin had a bunch of Top 5s and finshed in the top 5 in points and Robby Gordon actually looked like he could be a consistent challenger at times which is damn near a miracle. They can bounce back. They just have to ditch the conservative strategy and go for it. 26. Bronco posted: 08.11.2009 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Horseshit. Jeff Burton was winning races last year, where was Harvick? Being a crybaby. What rotten luck and pressure? You mean just this season? He wants out of his ride after one bad season?" Jeff Burton lucked into the spring Bristol race, although I do give him and his team credit for the fall Charlotte win. Harvick didn't win last year, but he led more laps than Burton, had a slightly better average finish and had two runner up finishes. I don't know why anytime a driver complains about something he is automatically labelled a crybaby. Shrub is a crybaby for complaining whenever he's passed for the win. Harvick's rant was him being frustrated with the way his career and season are spiralling downhill. Granted he could have restrained his tongue like Dale Jr did in his interview, but Harvick isnt that type of guy. "I just think it's silly that you're going out of your way to defend a driver who only have three top 10s this year in Hendrick equipment. " Terry Labonte sucked too in the last few years of his career (2000-2004), while Gordon and Johnson were winning races every week. I don't hear people talk about how he lost focus or passion for what he was doing. 27. Kit posted: 08.12.2009 - 2:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Harvick didn't win last year, but he led more laps than Burton, had a slightly better average finish and had two runner up finishes." That may be true, but personally I would take Burton's season last year over Harvick's. He won races, that means more to me because Harvick didn't win a championship. "I don't know why anytime a driver complains about something he is automatically labelled a crybaby." I wasn't aware that I have labeled every driver a crybaby, Bronco. I can think of only three I have said that about: Harvick, Stewart, and Busch. They have all set good examples of crybaby behavior. I call it how it is. Complaining isn't bad but you have to consider the circumstances surrounding the complaint. Harvick is complaining even though RCR could easily bounce back next year. Stewart complains about everything even though he's a champion who has won a lot of races on a variety of tracks. Busch I don't even have to speak of. I didn't hear the drivers from the 80s complain as much and they probably had it a lot worse. It'd be nice if these drivers would start acting like men. "Harvick's rant was him being frustrated with the way his career and season are spiralling downhill." Harvick does not drive to his potential when the car is not that great. That is his own f**king problem. This is also the same guy who got suspended from a race in 2002. Harvick would not have made it in the sport if he drove 20 or 30 years ago. He can't make the most out of junk. "Granted he could have restrained his tongue like Dale Jr did in his interview, but Harvick isnt that type of guy." Which is why Harvick is immature. Harvick has his own problems to deal with, and yes Stremme has issues, too, but damn Harvick, fix your own problems before criticizing others. "Terry Labonte sucked too in the last few years of his career (2000-2004), while Gordon and Johnson were winning races every week. I don't hear people talk about how he lost focus or passion for what he was doing." Maybe because at that point, Terry Labonte was already a two-time champion during perhaps the most competitive time of the sport? He has also won a bunch of races as well and he deserved the win at the last Southern 500. How many championships has Dale Jr. won so far? 28. Bronco posted: 08.12.2009 - 9:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Maybe because at that point, Terry Labonte was already a two-time champion during perhaps the most competitive time of the sport? He has also won a bunch of races as well and he deserved the win at the last Southern 500. How many championships has Dale Jr. won so far?" What does Terry winning 2 championships have to do with anything? How does that excuse his underachievement in Hendrick equipment from 2000-2004? He was good in 2003 with a win, a pole and a top 10 points finish but the other years he was just a 20th place driver while his teammates were in the championship hunt each year. His excuse couldn't have been equipment as I just explained. It can't be age either because other drivers his age were still running strong well into the 2000s. And I know he was injured during the 2000 season, but it wasn't the kind of injury that just ends a career. As far as championships, Dale Jr has none while Terry had two. Aside from that though, Terry had 21 wins and 7000 laps led after 20 years while Dale Jr has 18 wins and 6500 laps led in half as much time. Not too shabby I don't think. What's my point in all of this? I'm just trying to bring up the fact that good drivers running 20th in Hendrick equipment is nothing new, and that its ridiculous to attribute that to lack of focus or passion for racing. 29. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.12.2009 - 11:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Terry Labonte sucked too in the last few years of his career (2000-2004), while Gordon and Johnson were winning races every week. I don't hear people talk about how he lost focus or passion for what he was doing." Terry Labonte's career was hampered by the same thing every other driver his age was hampered by after February 18, 2001: Fear. After Dale died the older drivers instantly quit being factors for the most part. Rusty Wallace even admitted this in his retirement press conference. Rusty, Dale Jarrett, Terry Labonte, Mark Martin, Ricky Rudd all saw their careers spiral for the most part, especially in the win column. Only now in the ultra safe COT is Mark a threat again. They saw what could happen to them and all that Dale lost. He had set up a really nice post retirement life for himself: Owning his team, watching his son be successful, living on his big farm, playing with his grandchildren, growing old with his soulmate, and finally reaping the rewards of all his hard work. This scared the older drivers. Besides, Terry was always way too conservative. Yes, this won him two championsips in '84 and '96 while other drivers were winning a lot more races but not being consistent, but it hurt his overall career. Why do you think Dale spun him out at Bristol? Because he knew Terry wouldn't do a damn thing about it. Do you think he would have done that to Rusty Wallace or Ricky Rudd? Nope. Hell, he spun Rusty at Bristol once and got a water bottle upside his head afterwards. 30. Dodge posted: 08.12.2009 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as championships, Dale Jr has none while Terry had two. Aside from that though, Terry had 21 wins and 7000 laps led after 20 years while Dale Jr has 18 wins and 6500 laps led in half as much time. Not too shabby I don't think Terry didn't always drive cars that were competitive for all those years so that will knock down some numbers. Dale had always had cars that are Good to Strong cars. 31. Kit posted: 08.12.2009 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What does Terry winning 2 championships have to do with anything?" You brought him up, Bronco. You're trying to draw comparisons between Terry Labonte and Dale Jr. Dale Jr. isn't even in Terry's league. If you are going to draw comparisons between two drivers, of course it matters. "What's my point in all of this? I'm just trying to bring up the fact that good drivers running 20th in Hendrick equipment is nothing new, and that its ridiculous to attribute that to lack of focus or passion for racing." Hahaha, you're really pushing it. EVERY SINGLE HENDRICK CAR THIS SEASON, including Stewart-Haas, is competitive EXCEPT for the #88. If Dale Jr. is a good driver, why in the hell does he only have three top 10s this season? It is because he has a lack of focus! Don't even give me any more shit about the team. It's all on Dale Jr. now. Casey Mears squeaked by a better season with Hendrick than what Dale Jr. is doing now. Plus you don't constantly miss a f**king pit stall if you're focused. "Terry didn't always drive cars that were competitive for all those years so that will knock down some numbers. Dale had always had cars that are Good to Strong cars." True and I suspect that the level of competition back then was greater. 32. good old boy posted: 08.12.2009 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) maybe the word "overrated" can be used to describe harvick too......he gets alot of attention for a guy who has not accomplished a whole lot. put michael waltrip, elliot sadler, ragan, truex, andof course junior in there too. guys like cale, allison ,and even the king must cry when they see how much money mediocrity will get you these days 33. Bronco posted: 08.12.2009 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Terry Labonte's career was hampered by the same thing every other driver his age was hampered by after February 18, 2001: Fear" You're kidding, right? I seem to remember Dale Jarrett leading the points and winning four races that year, while Ricky Rudd and Sterling Marlin won two races each, and Rusty Wallace and Elliott won one race each. And that was only 2001. In 2002, Marlin led the points for most of the year, while Martin nearly won the championship, and Rudd, Jarrett and Elliott all won races as well. Only Terry was uncompetitive. I could go on about the years after that, but I'll just stop by saying that "fear" is a pretty lame excuse. "Terry didn't always drive cars that were competitive for all those years so that will knock down some numbers. Dale had always had cars that are Good to Strong cars." Do me a favor and look up his stats from 2005 and 2007 and then tell me he had good to strong cars. 6 engine failures in one season don't equal good to strong cars in my book. And Kit, the reason I bring up Terry Labonte is simply because he underachieved in Hendrick equipment for a long period of time, while a lot of the other older drivers were still kicking ass. When Dale Jr underachieves, its because he's supposedly not focused, but for Terry it's "fear" (what a joke). 34. CarlEdwards99 posted: 08.12.2009 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There has been reports on Jeff Gordon's back being in very back shape since April or May. He had a procedure or a shot on his back earlier this year and he claimed it didn't help his back pain. Remember Jeff took a very nasty hit at Las Vegas last year. He hit were there was no safe barrier before this year after Jeff called out the race track." I remember that, I guess until this past Monday I didn't realize how much of a problem it was for him though. Like I said, 8 is no longer a real possibility and as Kit said, catching Pearson's win total is unlikely also at this point. I think Jeff retires around 2012. That would make 20 full seasons 35. CarlEdwards99 posted: 08.12.2009 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Are Mark And Jeff declining as road racers or Hendrick lost it on building road curse cars?" I can't think of any time in the last 10 years where Mark has contended for a win on a road course. with that said, he may no be getting worse, everybody else is just getting better 36. good old boy posted: 08.12.2009 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) mark has finished in the top 10 on road courses in all but 4 races since 1999. 37. Dodge posted: 08.13.2009 - 8:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Do me a favor and look up his stats from 2005 and 2007 and then tell me he had good to strong cars. 6 engine failures in one season don't equal good to strong cars in my book. Blown engines are a part of the sport. You can have a great car blow an engine. Plus, I would say that chances are that Dale Jr. may of missed a shift and hurt the engine or if he spun, he turned the engine backward. Smarten up dude. 38. Bronco posted: 08.13.2009 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Blown engines are a part of the sport. You can have a great car blow an engine. Plus, I would say that chances are that Dale Jr. may of missed a shift and hurt the engine or if he spun, he turned the engine backward. Smarten up dude." Blown engines are a part of the sport, if you drive for a crap race team. Competitive race teams, the ones whose drivers make the cha$e and win races have maybe one if any engine failures the entire year. My point is DEI did not provide Dale Jr with proper engines in 2007. He had good cars at Texas, Indy, Richmond and Talladega but DEI could never complete the package for him. I'm just debunking your statement saying Dale Jr always had good to strong cars. 39. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.13.2009 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm just debunking your statement saying Dale Jr always had good to strong cars." You're forgetting one thing: Martin truex made the cha$e that year, won at Dover, and contended for wins at Atlanta, both Michigan races, Loudon and Phoenix. Besides, his "engine" failure at Texas came after the infamous Kyle Busch/Dale Jr crash that led to Kyle's dismaissal. He jacked Dale's rear into the air leading him to overrev his motor. And at Warkins Glen he admitted he missed a shift which blew it up. Kinda like Indy this year. 40. Dodge posted: 08.13.2009 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come on Bronco. If it weren't for Teresa Jr. would not even be in NASCAR. Sr did not want to put one of his kids in the family-owned raceteam. I heard that somewhere a few years ago. Also, if you are BLAMING DEI for his struggles then why has he struggled for the past year? The first half of 08 he was good but he is no longer capable of being a weekly contender. Don't even tell me that it is the crew chiefs fault as he has had two in 09 and the results have been the same. 41. CarlEdwards99 posted: 08.13.2009 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "mark has finished in the top 10 on road courses in all but 4 races since 1999." that stats a little off. there's been 7 races since 99 that he's failed to finish in the top 10 01 glen: 15th 03 sonoma: 19th 05 sonoma: 15th 06 sonoma: 13th 06 glen: 20th 09 sonoma: 35th 09 glen: 23rd but more to my point, Mark is a guy who back in the late 80's-mid 90's almost always contended for the win on a road course and while he might have a lot of top 10's the past 10 years, I can't think of one where he contended for the win. Even his 3rd at the glen in 04, he had nothing for Stewart or Fellows 42. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.13.2009 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, if I remember right, it was Tony Eury Sr that convinced the Big Guy to put him the AC Delco car in 1998. I could be wrong, but it seems like that is what they said. Dale didn't have a lot confidence in Jr. I think he was more surprised than anyone that he had so much initial success. Remember, they had a tough relationship. As a kid, Dale Jr was always getting in trouble and Dale Sr was always having to bust his ass for something. He even sent him to military school at one point. But with Big E and Tony Sr hovering over him, he did a great job. To me, that is what Jr needs, Tony Eury Sr riding his ass from the pitbox. It's a shame that a 35 year old needs to be scared into focusing and giving good feedback, and not motivated by a shot at ultimate greatness which he has at HMS. 43. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.13.2009 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't realize this, but Tim Richmond died 20 years ago today. That is a shame. There is no telling what he could have accomplished in a full career and how many more fans he could have brought to the sport with his flambouyant likeable personality (unlike Scott Speed's flambouyant unlikeable personality). He is definitely still missed to this day. 44. Bronco posted: 08.13.2009 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You're forgetting one thing: Martin truex made the cha$e that year, won at Dover, and contended for wins at Atlanta, both Michigan races, Loudon and Phoenix." Martin had three engine failures of his own, and two of them were in races where Dale Jr blew up too (California in February and Talladega in October), proving to me that DEI's engine program was lousy that year. Dale Jr contended for wins and the cha$e too that year, but his team could never complete the package. I remember him battling Stewart for 2nd with 6 laps to go in the fall Richmond race when his He engine expired. He was third during the GWC in the fall Atlanta race when the entire wheel came off. Bottom line is, he was about as competitive as Truex and several others, except he had more engine failures and bad luck which prevented him from winning a race or making the cha$e. His loop data for that year reflects this. There's a good piece on nascar.com showing that Dale Jr's numbers stack up pretty good compared to others. So to me, I still consider him to be a great driver who's just experiencing confidence and possibly equipment issues this year. I'm sure 2010 will be different. 45. good old boy posted: 08.13.2009 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "its been 20years since tim richmond died" since then we've also lost davey allison and kulwicki.....richmond, had he lived, would be retired by now, but davey and kulwicki might still be racing. i do wonder how the championship totals of dale sr. and gordon might, just might, have been different had those tradgedies not happened. kulwicki had already won 1 title, and you would think that davey and tim would have combined for 3 or 4.......one can only wonder 46. Kit posted: 08.14.2009 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There's a good piece on nascar.com showing that Dale Jr's numbers stack up pretty good compared to others." No they don't. He has three top 10s this year. Last year was shit as well. Right now there's about 22 other drivers who are doing better than him. "So to me, I still consider him to be a great driver who's just experiencing confidence and possibly equipment issues this year." It's a stretch to call him a great driver when he's not even competitive in championship-level equipment. Since a great season in 2003, he's been all over the place, and this has been in very good to great equipment. He's been lukewarm since 2004. There's really no excuse to be doing this poorly in a Hendrick car. It's not even all on the crew chief because Hendrick is so successful, they can pull notes from all of their teams. If he has confidence issues after being in Cup for 11 seasons and being the son of one of the greatest race car drivers of all time as well as having 18 wins, he needs to just retire. He definately has talent but doesn't care enough to bring it all out. He tends to choke as well, like DSFF. He doesn't strike me as somebody with a lot of emotional maturity. "I'm sure 2010 will be different." I've been hearing this for the past five years. 47. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.14.2009 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've been hearing this for the past five years." Ain't that the truth! He needs to be sponsored by the Chicago Cubs. 48. Kit posted: 08.15.2009 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "would be retired by now, but davey and kulwicki might still be racing. " Nah, Kulwicki would probably be a successful car owner by now. 49. Bronco posted: 08.15.2009 - 7:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No they don't. He has three top 10s this year. Last year was shit as well. Right now there's about 22 other drivers who are doing better than him." Genius, the article talks about his career as a whole, and basically shows how his CAREER, not SEASON stats compare to other drivers. And I fail to see how last year was shit either, unless winning once and making the cha$e and leading laps is considered to be shit. "It's a stretch to call him a great driver when he's not even competitive in championship-level equipment." Championship caliber equipment doesn't include R&D brake packages. As for Tim Richmond, it's a shame his career wasn't longer. He died a few months after I was born so he's from a completely different era as far as I'm concerned. What made Tim so good was that he was fearless, he could run any line on any racetrack. His 1986 season was just the beginning of something special I think. It would also be pretty cool if Dale Jr or Kez would run a retro Folgers paint scheme this weekend to honor him. 50. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2009 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Championship caliber equipment doesn't include R&D brake packages." When you are 25th in points they do. 51. Kit posted: 08.15.2009 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Genius, the article talks about his career as a whole, and basically shows how his CAREER, not SEASON stats compare to other drivers." Dude, why are you reading an article when you are on a RACING STATISTICS web site? The answer is right in front of you! Clicking on his career on this web site, and realizing that for the most part, he's had very good equipment so far, I'd say that NO, his career doesn't stack up to other drivers. Dale Jr. has had a good but not great career in very good equipment. Tony Stewart has him beat. So does Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. Down the list.... Carl Edwards is a close contest, and I'd lean towards Edwards having a better career thus far. Kyle Busch, probably not, not consistent enough. He's accomplished seasons that match Dale Jr.'s best seasons more or less and that's it. Greg Biffle is probably the closest driver to Dale Jr. career-wise, being hot and cold himself. Dale Jr. probably has JPM beat, even though JPM has had shit equipment. HOWEVER, JPM is doing WAAAAAY better than Dale Jr. this year in a much shittier ride. Who else? Matt Kenseth has the edge over Dale Jr. Kahne I believe will surpass Dale Jr. Bobby Labonte also has an edge over Dale Jr. career-wise. Ryan Newman I'd stick in the "Greg Biffle Hot and Cold" camp. Dale Jr. doesn't even come close to Mark Martin. Dale Jr. does have Kevin Harvick beat. But Jeff Burton? Nope. Dale Jr. is wildly inconsistent throughout his career, more inconsistent than you would expect from a driver who has big buck sponsorship and good cars. "And I fail to see how last year was shit either, unless winning once and making the cha$e and leading laps is considered to be shit." Winning ONE fuel mileage race, having only 16 top ten finishes, and finishing LAST in the chase in a Hendrick car is shit when you have Johnson winning the championship and Gordon finishing well ahead. The only full-time Hendrick driver Dale Jr. beat was Casey Mears, which anyone can beat. Dale Jr.'s 2008 season would be great... for Juan Pablo Montoya. Wow, if you think 2008 was a great season for Dale Jr., I guess you agree with me more than you realize. He's an underachiever. "It would also be pretty cool if Dale Jr or Kez would run a retro Folgers paint scheme this weekend to honor him." It would be pretty disrespectful for an underachiever like Dale Jr., whom doesn't give enough of a shit about his racing career to change crew chiefs himself, to drive a car that remotely looks like Tim Richmond's. If Tim Richmond had the kind of equipment Dale Jr. has had for the past several seasons, he would have several championships. 52. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2009 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Tim Richmond had the kind of equipment Dale Jr. has had for the past several seasons, he would have several championships." I seriously wonder just how much success DEI could have had from 2001-2004 if they had top notch drivers. If they could have had a Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson or even the Big Guy himself had he not passed. Good Lord, in 2003 they had Michael Waltrip in the Top 5 in points at the mid point of the season. MICHAEL WALTRIP!!! He sucks. And yeah, if Tim Richmond in his prime could have driven those rides (and been given a few "raincoats" if you catch my drift) it would have been spectacular. 53. good old boy posted: 08.15.2009 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) you want a great comparison for junior??? he's another kyle petty.....great pedigree, very popular, good equipment, totally unfocused. but, that being said...if i was junior's age and had 50 mill in the bank, i guess i would have a tough time focusing too. and having to live up to your dad's reputation, like he does and kyle did, probably doesn't help. he is what he is, he won't miraculously "get better" than he is, and probably won't ever win a championship, even if he spends his career at hendrick, which is doubtful. 54. Bronco posted: 08.16.2009 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Clicking on his career on this web site, and realizing that for the most part, he's had very good equipment so far, I'd say that NO, his career doesn't stack up to other drivers. Dale Jr. has had a good but not great career in very good equipment." Here is what the article said. "18 - Wins for Dale Earnhardt Jr. in his career, fifth from 2000 to present. Jimmie Johnson (43), Jeff Gordon (33), Tony Stewart (33), and Kurt Busch (19) rank higher." "87 - Number of top-fives for Dale Earnhardt Jr. in his career, fifth from 2000 to present. Jeff Gordon (139), Tony Stewart (130), Jimmie Johnson (110), and Matt Kenseth (91) rank higher." "140 - Number of top-10s for Dale Earnhardt Jr. in his career, sixth from 2000 to present. Jeff Gordon (207), Tony Stewart (204), Jimmie Johnson (170), Matt Kenseth (168), and Mark Martin (149) rank higher." "6,473 - Number of laps led for Dale Earnhardt Jr. in his career, fourth from 2000 to present. Jeff Gordon (10,198), Tony Stewart (9,282) and Jimmie Johnson (8,438) rank higher." So crunching the numbers shows him to about fifth best in terms of career stats. Let's look at some of the drivers you mentioned. Kasey Kahne has only one top ten points finish to his name and drives for an average finish so I don't see him surpassing Dale Jr anytime soon. Bobby Labonte does have a championship to his name, but his career is all but done. Jeff Burton has had a longer career in equally good equipment, so he better have more wins and top 10s. Burton also lucked his way into several wins, so I don't think he's that great. Newman and Biffle have less wins, top 10s and laps led than Dale Jr and I don't see them going on a hot streak anytime soon. Kurt Busch has one more win, and a bullshit championship but he is also very inconsistent. Kenseth is a good comparison to Dale Jr since both came to Cup at the same. I'd give Kenseth the edge because of his championship and consistency, but in terms of wins its a tie and top 5s and top 10s and laps led are close. I agree with the rest of your assesment, that Stewart, Gordon, Johnson and Martin are better drivers than Dale Jr. I never disputed that in the first place. "Winning ONE fuel mileage race, having only 16 top ten finishes, and finishing LAST in the chase in a Hendrick car is shit when you have Johnson winning the championship and Gordon finishing well ahead." I've said this time and time again, but the cha$e and its convoluted points are bullshit unless you belong to a race team. The 2008 cha$e also had Shrub finishing 10th with one win Bowyer finishing 5th, but everyone knows how different their seasons were. So that 12th place finish means nothing except being the 12th place team over the last 10 races of a season. And that fuel mileage win you were talking about is one more win than Jeff Gordon had that year. 55. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.16.2009 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "you want a great comparison for junior??? he's another kyle petty....." I could not possibly disagree any more with this statement. Kyle Petty OVERACHIEVED most of his career. He started out with Petty Enterprises in a second car while his teammate, The King himself, wasn't even competitive. then he went to a declining Wood Brothers and won twice. After he left in 1988, they only won three more times in the next 22 years. What he did with Felix Sabates was amazing. 6 wins for a team that never did anything else. And they were all at tough tracks like Rockingham, Dover, the Glen, and Pocono. What happened at the end of his career was a result of him putting all his focus on Adam's career. He went back to Petty Enterprises, which was totally pathetic at that point, and focused on getting them back up to speed for Adam. When Adam passed, Kyle was understandably devastated and it hurt the rest of his career. PE fell to shambles and the rest is history. 56. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.16.2009 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem Bronco is that most of that success came in bunches. From 2000 to 2004 he was excellent but he fell apart after that. 3 wins in 5 years. Even in his good years, he made a ton of mistakes that cost him a possible championship or two. We've never disputed that he has talent and lots of it. He just doesn't have the mindset. 57. kup posted: 06.21.2010 - 8:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2 - #47 Marcos Ambrose 6 - #42 Juan Pablo Montoya 8 - #13 Max Papis This IS Record: 3 non-USA drivers in Top-10 ? 58. CBASS posted: 02.04.2013 - 7:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates #12 Penske #18 M&M's/ RealChocolate.com #42 Target/ Polaroid #43 McDonald's Angus Third Pounder #82 Red Bull Cola #96 Dell Projector/ DLP HDTV #47 Little Debbie #71 TaxSlayer.com http://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/photos/main-gallery/?s=5&y=2009&r=3728 59. LASTCAR posted: 04.24.2013 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Ave picked up the 1st last-place finish of his career in Monday's Heluva Good! Sour Cream Dips at the Glen at Watkins Glen International when his #37 Long John Silver's Dodge fell out with transmission problems after completing 8 of the race's 90 laps. One of the so-called 'road ringers,' Ave had only made one previous Sprint Cup Series start, also at Watkins Glen, where he finished 31st in 2004 driving for Stan Hover. In Friday's qualifying session, Ave squeezed his way into the show in thrilling fashion. Throughout his timed lap, Ave flirted with Joe Nemechek's speed of 119.770 mph, running parts of the course both faster and slower than Nemechek. Off the final corner, Ave's car was not quite fast enough, but a burst of straightaway speed allowed him to beat Nemechek's time by one hundredth of a second at a speed of 119.787 mph. Nemechek, who lost valuable practice time after an engine failure, joined Brian Simo and David Gilliland as the three drivers to miss the show. Ave started 43rd. However, transmission problems in Monday's race forced Ave behind the wall, beating 2009 leader Dave Blaney by three laps. It was the second last-place finish for Front Row Motorsports' #37 in 2009, the other coming with Tony Raines in June's Lifelock 400 at Michigan. Ave is the first driver to finish last because of transmission failures this season, the sixth to have started last, and, along with David Gilliland and Joey Logano, is now the third driver to finish last for the first time in 2009. Neither Front Row Motorsports nor the #37 had ever finished last at Watkins Glen. 2009 RANKINGS 1st) Dave Blaney (5) 2nd) Mike Bliss, Patrick Carpentier, David Gilliland, Joe Nemechek, Tony Raines (2) 3rd) Tony Ave, Todd Bodine, P.J. Jones, Matt Kenseth, Joey Logano, Mark Martin, Mike Wallace (1) Visit http://brockbeard.blogspot.com/ for more. 60. Big Mac Fan posted: 11.28.2015 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) From 2002 to 2009, Stewart only had one finish outside the top 2 at Watkins Glen. Talk about domination. 61. Danish_Pie posted: 02.20.2019 - 3:13 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Only Cup Top 10 for Max Papis. Still to date, the only Top 10 for Germain Racing that didn't happen at Daytona or Talladega, despite the team running full-time since 2011. 62. Wil posted: 05.08.2019 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) A weird crash in this race ruined the days for several contenders. David "Trash Can" Stremme decided to drive into grass in the bus stop and spin out in front of the field, wrecking Kevin Harvick and Jeff Gordon. Harvick in the interview: "Looks like the 12 just drove into the grass. He obviously doesn't have the skillset to run the laps he needs to on a consistent basis. 63. QFH posted: 09.05.2020 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @61 Until the strategy shuffled finish that was 2020 Las Vegas. But perhaps the best overall run for Germain outside a superspeedway unless you consider either 2012 Bristol night or 2017 Dover. 64. Rich posted: 12.20.2020 - 5:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dr. Jerry Punch, Andy Petree and Dale Jarrett were the commentators. Dave Burns, Jamie Little, Shannon Spake and Vince Welch were the pit road reporters. Tim Brewer was at the ESPN craftsman tech garage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: