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  *Comments on the 2009 Pep Boys Auto 500:*
  View the most recent comment <#105> | Post a comment <#post>


  1.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.07.2009 - 10:01 am
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Holy Crap! We had a Kevin Harvick sighting in this race. I thought he
was just a Nationwide driver and Truck owner. He had the race won until
karma bit him in the ass. One race after impatiently dumping his
teammate Clint Bowyer, Clint spins out with about 15 laps to go bringing
out a caution and ruining his chances at the win.

Hell of a job by Kasey. At one point he was barely in the Top 15, but
him and Kenny made adjustments and he kicked everyone's ass there at the
end. I'm telling ya, get this guy with an organization with a solid
front office and some decent teammates and he'll be the one to beat.

Great run by Reutimann. I think he'll win a legit race soon. Michael
Waltrip needs to be kissing his ass every day for staying at MWR. He has
provided the stability and respectablity that allowed them to get Martin
Truex for next year and get full sponsorship for the #00 car.

Hell of a run by Bobby Labonte in the field filler #71 car. Even though
his run got kinda screwed up by David "What the Hell Am I Doing Here"
Stremme at the end (no surprise), he ran in the Top 15 all night. Hey
Yates: It isn't the driver, it's the piles of donkey shit you give him
for cars every week. Hell, if I were Bobby, I wouldn't want to go back
the the #96 car, I'd keep running the RCR R&D car. If I were Richard
Childress I'd say to Harvick "OK, go play with your buddy Tony, I'm
putting Bobby in the #29 car next year so we can finally have a champion
in this car again, which you aren't". Oh, BTW, Academy Sports, how
stupid do you feel right now? Your car was invisible while that
TaxSlayer car was visible all night. Althought I don't think it was
truly a "sponsor decision", I think it was the Yates braintrust.


  2.   Bronco posted:
  09.07.2009 - 10:26 am
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Pretty exciting race. No one really dominated, and guys just took turns
leading. In the beginning Truex dominated and looked like he might win,
except his car fell off the map later on. Shrub, Gordon and Hamlin were
strong but faded at the end. Johnson had a rare mechanical issue which
put him out. And Harvick might have broken a huge winless streak if his
teammate didnt spin.

Menard and Stremme make their 100th starts, and both had solid finishes.
Gilliland steps into the #21 for one race and gets a very good finish
too. Bobby Labonte shocks everyone with a top 20 lead lap finish for a
car that has done nothing all year. Meanwhile Darnell was slower than a
turtle in all practices and needed owner points to make the race. He
needs to do more testing with the CoT and perhaps more Nationwide seat
time to be good in Cup.

Huge heartbreaker for Carl Edwards as his radiator broke during the
race. His paint scheme was designed by a 13 year old cancer patient who
would have liked to see Carl get a good finish. Carl was running in the
top 15 before the issue.


  3.   Kit posted:
  09.07.2009 - 10:56 am
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This was one of the better races in a while.

Kahne came out of nowhere. I'm really surprised he was able to pull off
the win. He had one of the best five cars on the track, but none of them
were dominating the race. Kahne saw an opportunity to win in a short
run, which his car was good at, and he did.

I could not care less about Harvick. If he did win this race, it would
have made him look like an ass for all the bitching he's done at RCR
this season. It's only fitting that Bowyer pretty much screwed him up.

Dummy Stremme has no clue what he's doing.

I don't get all the attention on Dale Jr. when he finished 17th. Bobby
Labonte almost past him in a "start and park" car.


  4.   CarlEdwards99 posted:
  09.07.2009 - 11:04 am
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the middle green flag run in this race was one of the weirdest runs I
can remember.

every run has comers and goers, but this took that to the extreme.
Harvick went from 18th to 1st in just about halfway through the run.
Gordon dominated the first 1/3 of the run, than quickly fell to like 8th
before the run was over. There was a lot of other examples also.

the consistency of the tires was a big issue through out the race. To
many bad sets of tires out there tonight

I would also like to follow up on what I said last week and that's the
14 team looked like it's peaked to early. They have not been themselves
on a oval since Indy. And to follow up on the second part of what I said
last week, Mark Martin another top 5. I think the 48 and 5 are your two
main contenders for the cup


  5.   Red posted:
  09.07.2009 - 1:03 pm
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One of the most enjoyable races to watch in a long time. Worn out
pavement always makes for better racing, as it emphasizes mechanical
grip over areo grip. Guys could drive through the field at will and
easily pass the leader. At least for one night, we didn't have to hear
about clean air and track position. How refreshing.

I was also very impressed and happy to see Bobby run so well in the #71
car, and equally thrilled to see the #96 struggle. Surprisingly good
runs for Robby Gordon, Paul Menard, and David Gilliland (I would include
Stremme, but he was on the verge of wrecking every lap, as usual). Kudos
to the #83 pit crew for fixing an axle without losing a lap, and
allowing Brian to finish 7th and keep his Chase hopes alive.


  6.   redbyron posted:
  09.07.2009 - 2:27 pm
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great race.....tracks like atlanta usually have the best "drivers"
running near the front, although that doesn't make sense in harvick's
case. montoya is for real.....say what you will, but NOBODY would have
thought he would be a chase contender....something seems like its
missing with the 48 lately....you always expect that car and pit crew to
be bulletproof, but they have had little issues lately......i dont see
the 14 winning the title, he has had a LOT of issues with the front tire
changer this year, and although he is very consistent, there are not
many raves where he has been THE man to beat.....amazing comeback by
kenseth and biffle, kenseth can make chicken salad out of chicken shit,
never count that team out.....richard petty is sure getting alot of
credit and pub for kahne running well, huh?????? was robby gordon in the
#7 last nite?????running in the top 10????? kahne wins and elliot sadler
finishes where??? was he in the race????? truex dropped like an anchor,
reutimann will drive circles around him next year....kyle has another
"junior moment", bangs his car off the wall, then complains to his crew
that they messed up the car.....


  7.   Smokefan05 posted:
  09.07.2009 - 2:50 pm
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Would have liked to see "happy" win but good for Kasey. I really had no
idea who would win this race about half way through. Many different
leaders in this race and PEOPLE ACTUALLY SHOWED UP!!!!!!!!!!!
Drivers, pit crews and CC's earned their paychecks tonight.
Good too see Robby get a top 20, even tho he will not be in the car at
Richmond because he is going for the SCORE championship so David
Gilliand will replace him at Richmond. Good luck Robby!!!!!!!!! :)
Jr. falls like stone at the end, i don't know why. He was doing great
went from 30th to 4th in one run. Atleaset he has richmond coming, it's
one of he best tracks.


  8.   Anonymous posted:
  09.07.2009 - 3:22 pm
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Hahaha, people actually think Mark Martin will contend for the championship.


  9.   Kit posted:
  09.07.2009 - 3:28 pm
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"I would also like to follow up on what I said last week and that's the
14 team looked like it's peaked to early. They have not been themselves
on a oval since Indy. And to follow up on the second part of what I said
last week, Mark Martin another top 5. I think the 48 and 5 are your two
main contenders for the cup"

I agree. But I do think that if someone wants to challenge the #48 for
the championship, this would be the year to do it. Personally, I think
championships nowadays are a joke and if the #48 wins another one, it'll
make it even more so. I'm not sure that Mark Martin will ever win any
sort of a championship. His team isn't that consistent and when he has a
car to win with, he only gets a top 5.

"montoya is for real.....say what you will, but NOBODY would have
thought he would be a chase contender"

Dude, he isn't going to win the championship the way he has been
running. He'll probably be a filler contender. He couldn't even win at
Indy when he had the chance. He is doing a lot better than most of the
other open wheel racers (excluding Tim Richmond) but he doesn't have the
mentality to be a great driver. He makes too many dumbass mistakes.

"Would have liked to see "happy" win but good for Kasey."

Screw him. The only good thing I'll say about Harvick is his post-race
interview was classier than usual last night. Kahne was way more
deserving to win because he'll still give it 110% when his car is shit.
Harvick just gives up.


  10.   redbyron posted:
  09.07.2009 - 3:58 pm
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"he'll be a filler contender"............
Dude, i didn't SAY he would win the championship, i said nobody thought
he would have a good year.
filler contender????? like kenseth, biffle, newman, gordon........
what have those guys done lately????
montoya didnt win at indy because he got a speeding penalty......like
edwards and johnson have both done this year.
"he makes dumbass mistakes"......well, i guess he joined the
club.....like junior has all year, like stewarts tire changer has all
year, like edwards breaking his foot playin freakin FRISBEE, of all
things!!!!!! like kenseth and kyle constantly banging off the walls
every week.....gimme a break......montoya has won in every series he has
ever been in, and he's 8th in points and NOT driving a world beater like
a hendrick car, ya know.....


  11.   Anonymous posted:
  09.07.2009 - 4:08 pm
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Great run for Robby Gordon but his pit crew always gets him behind.

Are caution flags for cars spinning in the grass or apron really needed?

Montoya obviously has talent and deserves better equipment.

Jr could have 3 top 5's in a row. His cars are the most inconsistent
I've ever seen.

Bobby Labonte and David Gilliland both benefited from a change of
scenery. The 71 had good runs at the beginning of the year but a few
wrecks got them behind.


  12.   Brock Beard posted:
  09.07.2009 - 4:21 pm
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Dave Blaney breaks Derrike Cope's record of six last-place finishes in a
single NASCAR Sprint Cup Series season when he drops out after
completing 19 laps.


  13.   Anonymous posted:
  09.07.2009 - 4:42 pm
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"Dude, he isn't going to win the championship the way he has been running."

Uh, no one has said anything about Montoya winning a championship. The
bottom line is that no one, not myself, not any of you other fans, or
any of those dumb sports writers would ever have picked Montoya to sniff
the top 10 points. Remember, EGR was formed by two declining teams, so
no one expected them to produce a cha$e worthy team.

"He'll probably be a filler contender"

My ass. Based on his performance so far, I can see him easily finishing
ahead of Kenseth, Biffle, Newman, Busch and Edwards all who have done
nothing recently. That's at least 7th place in the standings. Who knows,
he might even pull an upset and finish in front of Gordon or Martin. So
you can never count anyone out.

Say whatever you want, but Montoya is one of the world's most talented
drivers. He won a CART championship as a rookie, he won the Indy 500, he
has a couple of F1 wins as well as two straight Rolex 24 wins. He also
won a Cup race for an organization that hadn't won in almost 5 years,
and he beat both teammates Sorenson and Stremme in 2007 despite having
less Busch and Cup experience.


  14.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.07.2009 - 5:12 pm
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"Are caution flags for cars spinning in the grass or apron really needed?"

Yes, for two reasons:
1) The driver might overcorrect and spin back on the track causing a
potentially crippling crash like the Hornish/Gordon wreck at the Glen.
2) Kevin deserved to have a sure win ruined by the same guy he took out
in the previous race. That is almost as big of a face melter as Bristol
2006 when he talked all sorts of trash about Kurt Busch then finished
second to him. I can't stand Kurt, but that was extremely satisfying to
watch. Besides, I'm kinda hoping his winless streak will reach 100.

"I don't get all the attention on Dale Jr. when he finished 17th."

I guess he's back to not being "back" again.

"He won a CART championship"

Open wheel.

"he won the Indy 500"

Open wheel.

"he has a couple of F1 wins"

Open wheel.

"two straight Rolex 24 wins"

Sports car.

"he beat both teammates Sorenson and Stremme in 2007"

They both suck.

The fact is this is stock car racing, and that other stuff doesn't mean
a hill of beans. What you are saying would be like saying this: Say
whatever you want about Michael Jordan's baseball career but he won a
bunch of NBA championships, a bunch of NBA MVPs, a bunch of NBA scoring
titles, made the winning shot for North Carolina in the 1982 National
Title Game, and had a better minor league career than Garth Brooks.


  15.   redbyron posted:
  09.07.2009 - 6:23 pm
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dale sr......i always enjoy your posts, as it is obvious you have been
watching nascar for along time, like myself, but that being said, i
don't understand the open wheel hating and the anti- montoya sentiment.....
i'm not saying he is another tim richmond, david pearson or jeff
gordon....but to say that "the other stuff doesn't mean a hill of beans"
is ludicrous.....lets "forget"all the other stuff for a minute.....this
is his 3rd full season in nascar, all with a team that has never been
considered an upper tier team.....with a crew chief that has been fired
several times in busch and cup.....and this being the first year with a
new car brand, and with a lame duck teammate, and with the same engines
that childress has been running all year......ok....now you're going to
tell me that if he makes the chase, that's not quite an accomplishment?
you're too bright of a guy to look past that, what did you think he
would accomplish this year???? as for the "other stuff", what kind of
stock car drivers were aj and mario??? well, they both won the daytona
500, so they didn't suck.....and they both won the indy 500, aj won a
usac dirt title, mario won the f1 title, etc. i'm not saying montoya is
in their class, but he ain't lennie pond either {remember him??}


  16.   redbyron posted:
  09.07.2009 - 6:28 pm
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one more thing.....the michael jordan comment doesn't
relate.......comparing his baseball career, which was probably forced on
him due to a gambling suspension, to his winning 6 titles is apples and
oranges..baseball and basketball have 2 different skill sets....if your
driving something as fast as you can, with 4 wheels and a motor, its
still auto racing.....


  17.   Anonymous posted:
  09.07.2009 - 6:50 pm
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"Kevin deserved to have a sure win ruined by the same guy he took out in
the previous race."

He wrecked himself trying to stay off of Clint. What more could he do
about that?


  18.   Sam Heddle posted:
  09.07.2009 - 7:05 pm
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I don't think it counts as payback for Bowyer since it only happened
because of his lack of talent.


I mean, really, what kind of payback is that? That's like getting
revenge on a guy who swiped you in a parking lot by crashing your car
and getting him stuck in a traffic jam.


  19.   Sam Heddle posted:
  09.07.2009 - 7:06 pm
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Oh, and I really wonder when people are finally going to admit that
Montoya might not be yet another hopeless foreigner. EGR has to be one
of the worst of the major teams out there, and he's somehow clawing a
chase spot out of that wretched team.


  20.   Mike posted:
  09.07.2009 - 7:34 pm
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Kyle needed a good run at Atlanta to make the chase and didn't get it. I
don't see him making it in even if he wins Richmond. Must not be as
talented as people say he is.

Good win for Kasey Kahne and it was great to see Harvick up front as
well. Jr was up there as well but dropped like a rock on the final restart.

As long as bad luck doesn't take them out, I see Mark Martin winning the
championship.


  21.   Bronco posted:
  09.07.2009 - 7:44 pm
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Post #13 is mine, I forgot to attach my name to it.

"The fact is this is stock car racing, and that other stuff doesn't mean
a hill of beans"

Maybe, but as an overall race car driver, those accomplishments show
just how good JPM is. In only his third season of Cup driving average
equipment, he is outperforming guys who have been doing this for years.
I just don't think he gets enough credit for that.

And really, quit making a big deal out of him not winning the Brickyard
400. Which driver hasn't made silly mistakes before that either cost
them a win/good finish or cost someone else a good finish? Mark Martin
once had a Busch race at Bristol won under caution in 1994, until he
pulled off the track a lap before completion giving the win to David
Green. Carl wrecked 10 cars last year by bump drafting in the turns at
Talladega. Jeff Gordon wheel hopped his car at Watkins Glen two years
ago and lost the win. Stewart had the Daytona 500 in his fingers until
he chose the wrong lane on the last lap. My point is even the best
drivers make dumb mistakes every now and then. I'm still trying to
understand what other "dumbass" mistake he has made.


  22.   Willy on Wheels posted:
  09.07.2009 - 7:46 pm
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"I don't get all the attention on Dale Jr. when he finished 17th."


He was in the top 10 for most of the race until he lost a bunch of spots
on the final pit stop. If not for the caution, he would have had a top
10 finish


  23.   Dodge posted:
  09.07.2009 - 7:52 pm
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He was in the top 10 for most of the race until he lost a bunch of spots
on the final pit stop

Yep, just blame the crew.


  24.   RR posted:
  09.07.2009 - 9:21 pm
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It's borderline ridiculous that some are still questioning Montoya's
talent, even when he has proven throughout the season that he is the
real deal. There was more tumult on the 42 team last year than any other
team in Cup. But Pattie and Montoya had a game plan going into this
season, and it's shown. Like the previous poster mentioned, no one
believed that Montoya was even going to get a whiff of the Chase. Now,
with one race to go, he's sitting in the catbird's seat, while his
teammate is an also-ran.

It's moronic to entirely dismiss his racing career until 2007. The fact
is he has competed and won against some of the best drivers in the
world. He's one of the most accomplished drivers in the world right now,
and it's unfair to dismiss what he's done so far.

The fact is the statements downplaying Montoya's abilities are quickly
being eroded by the simple facts. It's ok; one can never be right all of
the time. But it's downright childish to rehash the same thing over and
over again when reality states otherwise.


  25.   redbyron posted:
  09.07.2009 - 9:58 pm
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bronco...you are right about those other guys having made "stupid
mistakes"......add to those the following "dumb mistakes" great drivers
have made.....gordon missing a shift and blowing his engine at pocono in
95....richard petty taking himself and pearson out trying to block at
daytona in 76....dale sr running out of gas at daytona in 86, allowing
bodine to win.....carl edwards breaking his foot playing
FRISBEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FRISBEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!! how do you thing J.
roush handled that news????????


  26.   Red posted:
  09.07.2009 - 10:12 pm
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"Maybe, but as an overall race car driver, those accomplishments show
just how good JPM is. In only his third season of Cup driving average
equipment, he is outperforming guys who have been doing this for years.
I just don't think he gets enough credit for that."

Exactly - I don't understand all the hate directed toward JPM on this
site. It seems like a few of you guys (DSFF and Kit) just don't like
him, and that's fine, but you can't rationally conclude that he isn't
having any success in NASCAR. How do you justify praising Kasey Kahne
for running well in sub-par equipment, yet trash Montoya even though
he's doing exactly the same thing?


  27.   Smokefan05 posted:
  09.07.2009 - 11:10 pm
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RR, redbyron and Red make points. Juan is talented and making a case for
the Chase this year. He has raced against some of the greatest drivers
and beat them at their own game. I agree it is stupid to doubt JPM's
talent.
And yes Juan has made mistakes but who in racing hasn't? Mark Martin
blew a Busch series win at Bristol one year by piting when he thought
the race was over giving it too David Green. Bronco had a good list.


  28.   David posted:
  09.08.2009 - 1:22 am
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"He was in the top 10 for most of the race until he lost a bunch of
spots on the final pit stop. If not for the caution, he would have had a
top 10 finish"

Ifs and what-ifs don't mean SQUAT. You have to perform in NASCAR, bottom
line. Otherwise you'll find yourself rideless. Not that it's going to
happen to JR, seeing as everyone within the NASCAR community kisses his ass.

It was so refreshing to watch Bowyer spin out during that last caution
to cost Yappy the win. Like a couple of people said earlier, it's only
fitting after Kevin stupidly took him out at Bristol. Not really a Kasey
Kahne fan (although I'm not a hater either), but I'd pretty much rather
see anyone win than Havoc!

Great run by Bobby Labonte. He would have had a better chance for a
top-10 if stupid Stremme hadn't screwed it up. But like I said earlier
in my post, ifs and what-ifs don't mean squat. I'm still angry with
Stremme, however. Incidents like this are what make me jump for joy that
Keselowski is replacing him next season.

Good run for Gilliland as well. If he does well in those races with
Gibbs, somebody should give him a chance at a competitive full-time
ride. He wasn't doing bad with TRG, either. He's pretty much had junk
for his whole Cup career. Heck, the fact that he won a race in the
Nationwide Series with a car that was supposed to start-and-park
convinces me that he's not a bad driver.


  29.   Kit posted:
  09.08.2009 - 1:47 am
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"It's borderline ridiculous that some are still questioning Montoya's
talent, even when he has proven throughout the season that he is the
real deal."

Kasey Kahne is the real deal. JPM had a chance at a big win this season
and he screwed himself up.

All JPM has done this year is get top 10s in half of the races, which is
pretty good and so far it will put him in the Chase, but he's not
dominating the sport and he's not going to win the championship with
only top 10s.

To me, JPM is a talented David Stremme. They both do not have the
mentality to be great drivers. They both make dumbass moves. But JPM has
enough talent to save his ass when he does something stupid and can
salvage a decent finish. But you can't win championships and a bunch of
races by doing that.

I don't even know why we're even focusing on JPM when Kahne has
comparable equipment to Ganassi and yet has two wins and is in the
Chase. Kahne can take a good car to a great finish. JPM can take a great
car to a good finish. It's not that JPM is doing bad, but Kahne is
really overshadowing him.

""he makes dumbass mistakes"......well, i guess he joined the
club.....like junior has all year, like stewarts tire changer has all
year, like edwards breaking his foot playin freakin FRISBEE, of all
things!!!!!! "

They made their dumbass mistakes after they have won a bunch of races
that JPM has yet to do. Stewart doesn't have control of what his tire
changer does during the race, only before and after.

"and he's 8th in points and NOT driving a world beater like a hendrick car"

Kahne is also NOT driving a Hendrick car and he has two wins and is
sixth in points.

"Remember, EGR was formed by two declining teams, so no one expected
them to produce a cha$e worthy team."

Honestly, it doesn't surprise me. Ganassi had a championship-caliber
back in '02, and yes, they've been shit since then but every once in a
while, they can make things click. Seems like they threw all of
Ganassi's and DEI's resources together for the #42.

If Kahne were in the #42 right now, he would have won at Indy easily.

"My ass. Based on his performance so far, I can see him easily finishing
ahead of Kenseth, Biffle, Newman, Busch and Edwards all who have done
nothing recently."

So he's finishing ahead of guys who have done nothing this season, while
doing not much himself. What exactly is your point? That he's in first
place of filler drivers?

"Say whatever you want, but Montoya is one of the world's most talented
drivers."

Then why does he have only one win in Cup with half-way decent
equipment? Kahne has won way more than that in a car not much better.
Plus I don't give a shit what JPM has done in open wheel racing, that's
radically different. If he was such a badass in open wheel, yet only has
one win here and choked on a few others, open wheel is not a good
indication of how well a driver will do in Cup. Open wheel has pretty
much evolved into follow the leader racing, almost like Cup practice
sessions.


  30.   Kit posted:
  09.08.2009 - 1:52 am
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I agree, David. I'll also add that it was a really dumb move for Stewart
to not be interested in Keselowski yet be willing to put Danica "can't
lead for shit" Patrick in a Nationwide car. Keselowski can be a
championship contender in the right car. It kind of pisses me off that
he has to settle for the f**king #12 car instead of a Hendrick car.


  31.   Sean posted:
  09.08.2009 - 2:01 am
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Not that it's particularly relevant in evaluating JPM as a stock car
driver, but it is relevant toward Kit's comment that open wheel is
solely follow-the-leader.

JPM vs. Michael Andretti, 2000 Michigan 500

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25bHlzCbLuA

I am impressed with both Kahne and Montoya this season. I am somewhat
more impressed with Kahne. He won at Sears Point when road courses
aren't his specialty, beating Stewart, Montoya, Ambrose, the Gordons,
and everybody else...when road courses WERE Montoya and Ambrose's
specialty.


  32.   potatosalad171 posted:
  09.08.2009 - 4:59 am
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Kyle Busch sucks in Cup lately because he's spending too much time in
the Nationwide Series. That's why I think he won't make this year's Chase


  33.   Ambrose_fan posted:
  09.08.2009 - 6:41 am
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""Are caution flags for cars spinning in the grass or apron really needed?"

Yes, for two reasons:
1) The driver might overcorrect and spin back on the track causing a
potentially crippling crash like the Hornish/Gordon wreck at the Glen."

NASCAR needs to harden up. At least two of those spins (Hornish's first
and Johnson's) gave zero reason at all for a caution. There's always at
least one caution, and often more than three, per race that is an
absolute joke.

Caution for dust.
Caution for tire smoke.
Caution for clouds.

Drives me nuts.


  34.   Bronco posted:
  09.08.2009 - 8:38 am
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"All JPM has done this year is get top 10s in half of the races, which
is pretty good and so far it will put him in the Chase, but he's not
dominating the sport and he's not going to win the championship with
only top 10s."

Given the fact that he drives for EGR, how the heck do you expect him to
dominate the sport? Even your golden boy Kahne is hardly dominating.
Again, no one think he's going to win the championsip this year, or even
next year, we're just impressed at what a world class driver he is and
how nicely he has adapted to stock cars. As far him getting him top 10s,
I'm not sure how else you make the cha$e other than to rack up top tens
in the first 26 races.

"To me, JPM is a talented David Stremme. They both do not have the
mentality to be great drivers. They both make dumbass moves."

Comparing JPM to Stremme is probably one of the dumbest things I have
heard you say Kit. JPM is a world class driver who is doing much better
than anyone expected in his 3rd Cup season, while Stremme crashes every
other week. And apart from Indy, what other dumbass moves has JPM made
this season?

"So he's finishing ahead of guys who have done nothing this season,
while doing not much himself. What exactly is your point? That he's in
first place of filler drivers?"

My point is if you can finish ahead of 5 or 6 other guys in the cha$e,
then you're not just a filler contender.

"Open wheel has pretty much evolved into follow the leader racing,"

Watch the IRL race at Chicago from last week, and then try and tell me
open wheel is just follow the leader. Open wheel is no more follow the
leader than NASCAR.

"It kind of pisses me off that he has to settle for the f**king #12 car
instead of a Hendrick car."

As far as I know, he didn't have to settle for anything. He basically
left a championship caliber Nationwide team that wanted him back for an
average ride with an average team with a struggling manufacturer. He
could have, and should have stayed with the #88 next season in
Nationwide, won a championship and taken over the #5 in 2011, but he
didn't. Time will tell if it was the right move for him, but I sure
don't think so.


  35.   dUDE gUY posted:
  09.08.2009 - 2:46 pm
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JPM has impressed me this year. It is their choice how to race, and they
are choosing to take a somewhat conservative approach and rack up the
top tens. They are focused on the chase, and are doing what they feel is
necessary to make it. How else is he going to make the chase in EGR
equipment? By overdriving the car in every race trying to win and
messing up in half of them becasue of it? Kyle Busch is trying that
strategy this year, and it hasn't really worked out for him chase-wise.
:/ I think Montoya has made huge strides since he's started racing
stockcars, and though they definitely want to win some races, they are
mostly just focusing on laying the foundation for this year's chase, and
for future years as well. This is still the first year of the
Earnhardt-Ganassi merger, and despite the surprising consistency of the
42 team this year they still need to fill in some of the holes and flesh
out some details before they go all out and show what the team is truly
capable of. This is just JPM's third full year in stock cars, so there
is still room for improvement, but I think he has already shown more
patience and more control this year than he has the last two years.


As for the race, it was one of the most exciting of the year. Nobody led
more than 68 laps, and nobody led more than 38 laps at one time. Lots of
passing, lots of crashing, and lots of different setup strategies played
out in the first Altlanta night race. I want to gove a congrats to Kasey
kahne for winning, especially since he fell back a bit on that final
restart and still managed to pass Harvick for the lead within a lap.
Another shoutout to the 83 bunch, who fixed a broken rear axle in under
one caution lap! They were able to stay on the lead lap and power
through the field to finish 7th. One last nod to the 29 team of Harvick.
I'm not a fan of him, but it was awesome to see a Childress car take the
lead on green and keep it for several laps this year. It may be a
blessing in disguise for RCR that they are not in chase contention this
year, as they could many of the last 11 races as test sessions for next
year.


  36.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.08.2009 - 3:30 pm
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"which was probably forced on him due to a gambling suspension"

HA! So I'm not the only one that believes that. Some people think I'm
crazy for believing that.

As far as JPM, he is definitely overhyped. He has taken the "Clint
Bowyer Memorial Cha$e Approach" this year. That is finish 6th to 15th
every week, don't lead many laps (except at Indy when he choked it
away), and don't get many Top 5s. If it weren't for his stellar open
wheel career he would be totally ignored. The problem is that almost all
of the NASCAR drivers are huge F1 fans (too much carbon monoxide to the
brain I guess) and treated him like he was Albert Pujols joining their
beer softball league.

As Kit said, other drivers deserve more attention than JPM gets,
beginning with Kasey Kahne. He has won four times in the last 2 years
with an organization going through way more turmoil than Ganassi. Yet
the the majority of the attention he gets is from girls.

I don't think JPM "sucks" but I definitely think he gets more credit
than he deserves. Is it "easy" to do what he's done this year?
Absolutely not. But he is definitely not one of the top stock car
talents. And again, I don't care one bit about his open wheel or sports
car accomplishments when assessing his stock car career. Open wheel and
NASCAR are like baseball and football. All he has done in stock car so
far in three years is get one Cup win (on fuel mileage), one Busch win
(he dumped his teammate), and one BIG choke. And yes, other drivers have
choked too, but the ones that were mentioned also have a ton of other
wins, which JPM doesn't have.


  37.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.08.2009 - 3:43 pm
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"I mean, really, what kind of payback is that? That's like getting
revenge on a guy who swiped you in a parking lot by crashing your car
and getting him stuck in a traffic jam."

I didn't say Clint did it on purpose (although I'm not totally ruling it
out), I just think it is funny. It was like watching the hand of karma
do its work. Besides, if somebody swipes me in a parking lot, I hope he
gets stuck in a traffic jam. One of those bad ones where you don't even
budge and really have to piss. And its not like Clint crashed himself or
hurt himself. He was having a bad night anyways.


  38.   RR posted:
  09.08.2009 - 4:45 pm
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How is Montoya overhyped? Everybody who has an objective opinion
(basically everybody except for DSFF and Kit) has simply stated that
Montoya shouldn't be dismissed as an also ran. He's obviously doing much
better than everyone anticipated this season, in a car that isn't up to
Hendrick, Gibbs, or Roush standards. It would be silly to pretend like
they can win every race; that's not realistic. Thus, they began a more
conservative approach that emphasized consistency results over sheer
speed. They've executed that strategy to perfection, and are now
contenders (but not the favorites) for the Championship.

And yes, Montoya has experienced more turmoil than Kahne. Kahne has
always been acknowledged as the clear top driver for that team, and has
always maintained a relatively steady crew working for him. Montoya has
had 3 crew chiefs, a merger, a manufacturer switch, and switches from 2
to 3 teammates in the last 18 months. Iā??m not dismissing Kahne; heā??s
obviously very talented. Iā??m just pointing out that it is hypocritical
to laud Kahneā??s season, yet dismiss Montoya in the same breath.

The argument that has been made over the past few months is that Montoya
canā??t be a consistent winner because he makes too many mental
mistakes. However, it is perfectly applicable to cite his previous
experience to show why this is an unsound point. As a rookie in 1999,
Montoya beat drivers who had more experience than he, and won the
seasonā??s championship. You canā??t win a championship by luck; it
takes consistency. In F1, he won 4 times in a car that was inferior to
the Ferrari and McLaren chassis. You can dismiss this, but this shows
that he has the determination to win, which is essential in any form of
motorsport.


  39.   Ryan posted:
  09.08.2009 - 5:17 pm
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Very well put RR. I couldn't have said that better myself about Pablo.
Most people that diss Montoya are either prejudiced towards open wheel
drivers coming in trying to make it in Nascar, racist or prejudiced to
foreign drivers, or just plain blind. What he has done this year is
really remarkable. He showed signs last year of being somewhat
competitive, but this year he and his team have really stepped up their
game.

One could make a very good argument that Pablo is the best driver in the
world. He was won in Cart, F-1, Indy Car, and he has won in Nascar. And
unless something happens to him at Richmond, he will be in the Nascar
Playoffs. I know when he first came into the league I had my doubts
about him coming to Nascar and doing well, but he has really proven me
and a lot of other people wrong. He won Indy this year until Nascar took
it from him. Yes, he did get robbed. Johnson is the golden child.
Montoya really has ran well this year.

I never have been a fan of Montoya, but he has definitely earned my
respect over the last couple of years. He races hard and races everyone
hard, and doesn't give an inch. He lets it all out there every lap.
What's not to like about that? He hasn't been in top notch equipment
(Hendrick, Roush, Gibbs) and he has been running really well. If he
makes it I will definitely be pulling for him in the Chase.


  40.   Ryan posted:
  09.08.2009 - 5:22 pm
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The last caution hurt Harvick and Jr. the most. Had it went green the
rest of the way Harvick would have easily won, and Jr. would have got
either 5th, 6th, or 7th... Eventhough they didn't get the right
adjustments on the last restart.... Jr's back!!!

Glad Harvick finally got a good run. I think they'll be fine for next
year. Go Kevin!


  41.   Bronco posted:
  09.08.2009 - 5:48 pm
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"And yes, Montoya has experienced more turmoil than Kahne. Kahne has
always been acknowledged as the clear top driver for that team, and has
always maintained a relatively steady crew working for him."

Exactly. No matter what team Kahne has driven for, whether it was EMS,
GEM or RPM he was always the golden boy after Mayfield was let go. It's
pretty obvious to me that that the bulk of RPM's resources go towards
making Kahne competitive, since he's the one bringing in the big
Budweiser money. The reason Sadler, Dinger and Sorenson are 20th to 25th
place drivers is that they dont get half the support that Kahne does. In
light of that, he should be doing well with all the support he has
behind him.

"Montoya has had 3 crew chiefs, a merger, a manufacturer switch, and
switches from 2 to 3 teammates in the last 18 months. "

Thank you for pointing that out. Montoya started out 2008 with a new
teammate in Dario Franchitti, who is a great open wheel talent a nice
guy to meet, but he had no business being in Cup that quick. Dario's
team had little sponsorship and began to drag down the #41 and #42 with
it, which is why Jimmy Elledge and Donnie Wingo were swapped. When
Elledge was fired for pissing off the managment, Montoya was paired with
Brian Pattie, a very unknown and unproven crew chief. They ran well at
the end of 2008 but didnt have the finishes they deserved because all
those wrecks they were caught up in. Then Texaco announced they were
leaving, and his team decided to merge and change manufacturers. You
don't think that's a lot of turmoil? Kahne has always had the same crew
chief, the only thing that has changed is his team's official name.

I'm still wondering what other stupid/dumbass mistakes Montoya has made
this year?


  42.   Talon64 posted:
  09.08.2009 - 6:39 pm
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"I'm still wondering what other stupid/dumbass mistakes Montoya has made
this year?"

Indy was the only stupid/dumbasss mistake he's made. Seriously, that was
a pretty dumb mistake that cost him a history-making win. But other than
that he's been a saint compared to the last couple seasons. The last two
years he's only had 15 and 13 lead lap finishes respectively but this
year he's had 20 and it's because he's been a much smarter driver; in
his first two seasons he had 13 DNF's due to crashes but no DNF's of any
kind this season.

He's made the transition to stock cars far more easily than the likes of
Hornish (he's getting better though), Franchitti, Speed, Allmendinger,
Carpentier or Villeneuve (what little he drove). And his equipment was
about on par with all of them and isn't much better now. And now he's
proven that he can contend for wins and make the Chase. I don't know how
well he'll once me makes it in and he could easily tank to 12th but
frankly anyone in the Chase this year could do that. I'm hoping he does
well.


  43.   redbyron posted:
  09.08.2009 - 7:14 pm
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kit, your hero worship of kahne doesn't bother me....he's a good guy and
good, not great, driver. your argument against montoya makes no sense,
so its obvious you just don't like him, which is ok too, but you
sound like a moron comparing him to stremme. dale sr,all i can say is at
least we agree on the gambling suspension!!!!


  44.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.08.2009 - 9:05 pm
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There is no "prejudice" on my part against Juan. On the list of jerks in
NASCAR, he ranks down the list. He is my jerk list: 1) Kyle Busch 2)
Kurt Busch 3) Kevin Harvick 4) Tony Stewart 5) Kyle Busch again 6) Denny
Hamlin 7) Whoever raised Kurt and Kyle 8) Robby Gordon 9) Ryan Newman
10) Kyle Busch again 11) JPM.

And saying JPM has had more turmoil than Kasey is ridiculous. His first
owner and mentor, Ray Evernham, bailed on him. His new owner is George
Gillette who knows embarrassingly little about NASCAR. They have
recently merged with the corpse of Petty Enterprises. His company has
been involved in two lawsuits with Jeremy Mayfield and Elliott Sadler.
The Sadler lawsuit forced them to stretch their resources by trying to
run 4 teams because they didn't want to lose Dinger because they
stupidly signed Sadler and Sorenson to long term deals. He has also had
Scott Riggs and Patrick Carpentier as teammates. The only teammate he
ever had worth a damn was Mayfield, and he has been a repeated malcontent.

The fact is this: Juan has one Cup win and one Cha$e appearance. His
stats are comprable to Martin Truex's. He is below Elliott Sadler and
Clint Bowyer. He just hasn't got it done in stock cars. When he does, I
will praise him. He is getting all sorts of praise based on what people
think he will eventually do. I think he doesn't have the mentality to
succeed in the much longer Cup races and seasons. Plus he's pissed off
so many of the drivers he'll never get a break if he needs it. If he
wasn't "world renowned" for his accomplishments in an entirely different
sport, he would be largely ignored. He is like Dale Jr and Casey Mears,
way too much attention.


  45.   Red posted:
  09.08.2009 - 9:07 pm
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The issue I have with calling Kahne a great driver is that his career
has been wildly inconsistent. He was good in `04, awful in `05, great in
`06, pretty bad in `07, mediocre in `08, and good so far this year. Even
in 2006, Kasey's best year, he dominated on intermediates but didn't
even contend for wins on any other type of track. To me, Kahne is a guy
who can maximize the performance of a good/great car, but if you give
him a 20th place car, he'll finish 20th. I will admit that he's shown
more versatility this year, especially with his impressive Sonoma win,
but until he keeps it up for 3-4 years I'm not going to call him a great
driver.


  46.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.08.2009 - 9:21 pm
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"How is Montoya overhyped? Everybody who has an objective opinion
(basically everybody except for DSFF and Kit) has simply stated that
Montoya shouldn't be dismissed as an also ran."

There is a big difference between "overhyped" and an "also ran".

"It would be silly to pretend like they can win every race; that's not
realistic."

I never said he should win every race, just more than one in 3 years to
be heralded as one of the best in the sport.

"Iā??m just pointing out that it is hypocritical to laud Kahneā??s
season, yet dismiss Montoya in the same breath."

Kasey has won twice, JPM has zero wins this year, including at
Indianapolis where had a clearly dominant car. That is not hypocritical.

"You can dismiss this, but this shows that he has the determination to
win, which is essential in any form of motorsport."

Michael Jordan may have had the greatest desire to be dominant of anyone
that has ever played sports, and he sucked in baseball.

"prejudiced towards open wheel drivers coming in trying to make it in
Nascar, racist or prejudiced to foreign drivers, or just plain blind."

Horse shit!! If Helio Castroneves were here, he'd be loved because he
has a great personality, and he is also a Latino from South America. And
Tim Richmond was an open wheel import, and he was loved.

"He won Indy this year until Nascar took it from him. Yes, he did get
robbed."

That is a complete load of crap. Brian France even came out recently and
said it isn't good for the sport that somebody as vanilla as JJ keeps
winning. What could have given NASCAR better publicity (other than a
Dale Jr win) at Indy other than having JPM win? JJ wins yet another
Brickyard to throw on his mound of accomplishments. NASCAR needed that
like a beach needs sand. And the pit road speed limit is in place
because SOMEBODY GOT KILLED ON PIT ROAD.

"he's a good guy and good, not great, driver."

When Jeff Gordon retires at the end of next year and Kasey takes over
the #24 car, you'll be proven wrong.

"dale sr,all i can say is at least we agree on the gambling suspension!!!!"

Exactly. Like MJ ever got tired of being dominant. He still wants to
play so badly he can't stand it.


  47.   Bronco posted:
  09.08.2009 - 10:06 pm
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"He is my jerk list: 1) Kyle Busch 2) Kurt Busch 3) Kevin Harvick 4)
Tony Stewart 5) Kyle Busch again 6) Denny Hamlin 7) Whoever raised Kurt
and Kyle 8) Robby Gordon 9) Ryan Newman 10) Kyle Busch again 11) JPM."

I personally don't think there are any true "jerks" in NASCAR. All those
guys have behaved like that on camera, but each one of them does a lot
of good things off the track. Shrub donated $100K to Sam Ard to help pay
his medical bills last year, and he bought seats at AMS for needy
children last year. Harvick helps Morgan Shepherd with running his race
team. Stewart and Kurt Busch are huge supporters of the VJGC. Hamlin,
Gordon and JPM also do a lot of charity work while Newman helps animals
through his foundation. A true jerk wouldn't do any of those things.

Like I mentioned earlier, Kasey's turmoil has only been in terms of team
ownership and who he calls teammates. He has always had the same crew
chief and has always been number one in the organization. JPM had 3
different crew chiefs in a single season!

"And Tim Richmond was an open wheel import, and he was loved."

By fans maybe, not by other drivers. The King himself stated that he
thought Tim was on drugs, and many other drivers didn't like the fact
that he was 10 times richer than they would ever be and lived a
lifestyle they could only dream about.

"He is below Elliott Sadler and Clint Bowyer. He just hasn't got it done
in stock cars."

Let me ask you this. This is only JPM's third full year of Cup, all
which have been with an average team, right? What else should he have
accomplished by now (other than that Brickyard 400 win)?


  48.   Anonymous posted:
  09.08.2009 - 10:50 pm
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i dont care what anyone says because kahne is the man!!!!!!!! and
montoya sucks kahne is done a lot with what he has right now and its so
awesome to see go kahne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  49.   Ryan posted:
  09.09.2009 - 1:20 am
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lol at the comment "He is below Elliott Sadler and Clint Bowyer. He just
hasn't got it done in stock cars." Wow, I'm just glad I didn't say
something like that. That has to be one of the dumbest comments of all time.

Right now he is in the playoffs. I don't care what anyone says, but
Pablo making the playoffs is a big upset. No one and I mean no one
thought he would even be in contention to make a run this year with that
underfunded team and he has made the most of it. You put him in JJ's
stuff or hell any of the big 3's equipment he would be doing a lot
better. He has been really impressive in that equipment this year. Many
people thought Ganassi would be out of it by now, but Montoya is a pure
racer people. He is keeping Ganassi-Earnhardt going in Nascar. He is
probably the best racer in the world. Let me ask you this DSRF, Do you
really think Montoya would have been running this competitive and making
a push for the playoffs at the beginning of the year? I'll answer that
for you, NO.

And quit making MJ references in here. Making a comparison of Montoya in
Nascar and MJ is baseball is horrible. Did MJ play in the majors? No.
Did he ever play in the playoffs? No. Horrible, pathetic comparison.

I'm talking about you being prejudiced. I didn't say anything about
Helio or Richmond. I'm saying that because I don't understand why you
are being a hater of Pablo. He really has defied that odds in Nascar,
and I just don't see why you don't see it. Just because he hasn't won
races, doesn't mean he isn't good or made some headway. You need to put
the blinds all the way up and look at the bigger picture.

And if you don't know by now that the whole France family is crooks then
you really are blind. Indy was fixed. Pablo wasn't speeding and it's a
shame that you think so much about the France family in take a lot in to
what they say. Quit drinking their Kool-Aid.

Dale SR fan, I did like your jerk list, except for Harvick.

Bronco:

Dale Sr fan has been a hater of Harvick ever since he got into the 29
car since our boy SR. died. He just doesn't like him. He always seems to
hate on him every chance he gets. Kevin acted real classy after the race
going over and giving congrats to Kahne when Harvick definitely had the
win before the caution. You know that had to be a tough one to swallow
and he had his head held high and with a big smile. Gotta love Harvick
for doing that after the type of year he has had this year.


  50.   Anonymous posted:
  09.09.2009 - 1:59 am
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oh and another thing i laughed at kahnes comments about stremme a few
years back its so true stremme is fat and out of shape and by the way
kasey kahnes teamates suck comeone elliott sadler and those poor
drivers??? i wish he gets the 24 car after gordon


  51.   Dodge posted:
  09.09.2009 - 7:31 am
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My only BEEF about Montoya is that there are guys at EVERY short track
in the country that all they want is to get to the Cup Series and they
get screwed to bring in somebody from Indycar who don't even do it the
right way. My belief is that you should be REQUIRED to run in trucks
and/or Nationwide for more than a 5-9 races to get considered for a ride
in he Cup Series.


  52.   Bronco posted:
  09.09.2009 - 12:37 pm
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First DNQ of the year for Regan Smith and the #78 team. It always pisses
me off when a team that fully intends to run the whole race is sent home
by someone who runs 20 laps. Phil Start and Parksons ought to be
arrested for all the undeserved loot he's hauled away the past two seasons.


  53.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.09.2009 - 1:50 pm
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"Kasey's turmoil has only been in terms of team ownership and who he
calls teammates."

Umm... That's a pretty big deal. In the wake of the Bobby Ginn debacle,
it had to be unsettling when Gillette took over for fear he would do the
same thing.

"Let me ask you this. This is only JPM's third full year of Cup, all
which have been with an average team, right? What else should he have
accomplished by now (other than that Brickyard 400 win)?"

Well, Kasey has been with an average team for the last 3 years and has
won 4 races plus the '08 All Star Race. So if Juan were a "world class
talent" and one of stock car's best, he should have at least 4 too.

"That has to be one of the dumbest comments of all time."
JPM: 1 win, 1 cha$e (assuming he doesn't shit the bed at Richmond)
Sadler: 3 wins, 1 cha$e
Bowyer: 2 wins, 2 cha$es

"I don't understand why you are being a hater of Pablo."

I am not a "hater", I just think he gets more credit than he deserves.
He gets treated like one of NASCAR's best but he has earned that treatment.

"He really has defied that odds in Nascar, and I just don't see why you
don't see it."

Oh please!! Alan Kulwicki defied the odds. He was a no name and
sometimes didn't even have sponsorship. JPM was put in a quick ABC
program in 2006 with sponsorship already in place for Cup. He didn't
have to pave his own road in NASCAR.

"And if you don't know by now that the whole France family is crooks
then you really are blind."

I know they are crooks. Hardly anyone on this site takes NASCAR to task
more than me. I hate the NASCAR suits. They fixed last year's Talladega
race, they fixed the All Star Fan Vote, they threw the caution flag and
red flag at Loudon before they needed to, and they didn't suspend Tony
Stewart for punching Brian Vickers less than one year after they
suspended Jimmy Spencer for punching Kurt. These were all to help the
Home Depot car, which is the official sponsor of NASCAR. Brian France
has publically stated that JJ isn't good for the sport. It would be a
dream come true if JPM could have pulled the huge upset at their second
most hyped race. THEY DID NOT FIX THAT RACE!

"Dale Sr fan has been a hater of Harvick ever since he got into the 29
car since our boy SR."

Wrong! I actually pulled for him at first, but his attitude just grated
on me.

" Gotta love Harvick for doing that after the type of year he has had
this year."

This after he tried to get out of his contract one year early.


  54.   Kit posted:
  09.09.2009 - 4:11 pm
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Okay, some of you guys really need to take your heads out of JPM's lap
and come up for air.

It's obvious that some of you are either new fans to the sport or have
your standards set so low that a fat chick wearing the skirt off of a
double wide trailer looks sexy to you.

"It's moronic to entirely dismiss his racing career until 2007. The fact
is he has competed and won against some of the best drivers in the
world. He's one of the most accomplished drivers in the world right now,
and it's unfair to dismiss what he's done so far."

This is a NASCAR board! Why the f**k do I care what else JPM has done
with his life when we are discussing competiting in the Cup Series? As
far as I know, NASCAR does not give points to drivers who won in other
series. JPM's wins in CART, IRL, Pinewood Derby, or whatever else he did
does not translate over to statistics in Cup. He has only one win here
in Cup, on a road course no doubt, and has choked away other good
opportunities. He hasn't even accomplished as much as Brian Vickers yet,
geez.

You want to say he's such a great driver, one win and 21 top tens in
all, when there's DOZENS of drivers who have done MORE, some of whom
with comparable equipment.

That's hilarious to me. Kahne has real potential to be a true legend in
the sport, and he is whipping JPM's ass in comparable equipment. Yet
we're talking about JPM and all of his 21 top 10s in his career. Whoopie
shit. I bet some of you posted your JPM support while in line for a
Danica "can't lead laps" Patrick autograph.


  55.   Kit posted:
  09.09.2009 - 4:19 pm
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"All those guys have behaved like that on camera, but each one of them
does a lot of good things off the track. Shrub donated $100K to Sam Ard
to help pay his medical bills last year, and he bought seats at AMS for
needy children last year. Harvick helps Morgan Shepherd with running his
race team. Stewart and Kurt Busch are huge supporters of the VJGC.
Hamlin, Gordon and JPM also do a lot of charity work while Newman helps
animals through his foundation. A true jerk wouldn't do any of those
things."

I'm sure Hitler did some good things in his life, too, so I don't quite
see your point.


That list of douchebag drivers still stands, regardless of how many
checks they write. In fact, it's the easy way out. Instead of improving
their own behavior, they just take an ink pen and write a check to
someone in the amount of money they don't even know what else to do
with. It's not just kindness but also the fact that these drivers are
inelastic about the amount of money they donate. It's like if you give a
Chiclet kid in Mexico a dollar and you don't think about it... it's just
a buck.


  56.   Bronco posted:
  09.09.2009 - 5:27 pm
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"He hasn't even accomplished as much as Brian Vickers yet, geez."

No frigging shit he hasn't. Vickers has been in Cup for twice as long as
Montoya and half of those were with a team that wasn't experiencing a
tenth of the turmoil that Ganassi was going through.

"That's hilarious to me. Kahne has real potential to be a true legend in
the sport, and he is whipping JPM's ass in comparable equipment."

The whole idea that Montoya and Kahne have comparable equipment is
bullshit. Kahne's organization has won at least once race every year
except for 2007. Ganassi was good in 2001 and 2002, and then pretty much
sank to the pits from there. McMurray had a few good performances but
whatever he did was essentially nullified by Mears and Marlin struggling.

"You want to say he's such a great driver, one win and 21 top tens in
all, when there's DOZENS of drivers who have done MORE, some of whom
with comparable equipment."

Ok, like who? JPM has 21 top 10s in roughly 100 starts. That is more
than Menard, Stremme, Gilliland, Ragan and Reutimann who all have a
similar number of starts.

One more thing, Kahne has accumulated 3153 points at this point in the
season while JPM is just 8 points less. Hardly what I would call
"whipping ass". Who knows, JPM might even be higher up in points if
Kahne would stop cutting down his tires.


  57.   Talon64 posted:
  09.09.2009 - 5:34 pm
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"This is a NASCAR board! Why the f**k do I care what else JPM has done
with his life when we are discussing competiting in the Cup Series? As
far as I know, NASCAR does not give points to drivers who won in other
series. JPM's wins in CART, IRL, Pinewood Derby, or whatever else he did
does not translate over to statistics in Cup. He has only one win here
in Cup, on a road course no doubt, and has choked away other good
opportunities. He hasn't even accomplished as much as Brian Vickers yet,
geez."

One more race and he'll have accomplished more than Vickers by making
the Chase. And it all matters; what Montoya's done in other series to
show how talented he is, and how quickly he's adapted to NASCAR compared
to the other open wheelers who've failed to show that he can figure this
out and get to the level of everyone else. If you want to say "f**k it"
to everything pre-NASCAR then fine but don't deny that he's made the
stock car transition far more easily than the rest.

Him and Truex, a 2 time Nationwide champion and former winner and Chase
contender, are teammates but Montoya has kicked his ass this season
including well before Truex decided to leave and became a lame duck.

I started watching NASCAR in 2000 and it was the gateway racing series
that got me hooked on F1, IRL and sports cars, I wouldn't consider
myself a "new fan" in that regard but I'm also not just a NASCAR fan so
what Montoya has done for the rest of his career matters to me.


  58.   RR posted:
  09.09.2009 - 5:57 pm
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"It's obvious that some of you are either new fans to the sport or have
your standards set so low that a fat chick wearing the skirt off of a
double wide trailer looks sexy to you."

I've been watching racing as long as I can remember (which is to say,
about 15 years). I've been to many different races for many different
series. I follow just about every different major racing series in the
world (there is more than just NASCAR, you know), and I have
specifically followed Montoya for over a decade. In short, I know what
the hell I'm talking about.

"You want to say he's such a great driver, one win and 21 top tens in
all, when there's DOZENS of drivers who have done MORE, some of whom
with comparable equipment."

DOZENS? Bit dramatic if you ask me. Most drivers who have done well
early have often had top quality cars. Ganassi has always been quite low
on the totem pole of teams in NASCAR. Sterling Marlin, for instance, had
only 12 top tens in his last two year with Ganassi. Keep in mind he had
placed third in the 2001 Championship, and had led for much of the way
in 2002.

JPM's twelve top ten's this year are the most for that team in five
years. This is the first season that the 42 team has been around the top
ten since 2004. And, like I've mentioned, they're strategy has been to
stay consistent, knowing that they won't win every race.


  59.   Ryan posted:
  09.09.2009 - 6:11 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DSRF:

I definitely agree that Kulwicki defied bigger odds than what Montoya
has, but Montoya has defied the odds. And you couldn't answer the
question whether or not you thought Pablo could make it to the playoffs
at the beginning of the year. He has been running really well in only
his third year and his body of work this year has been really
remarkable. And he was robbed at Indy. All there is to it. Anyone can
say that they don't want JJ to be the poster child. But that doesn't
mean they actually mean it. Crooks!

And quit saying Sadler is better than Pablo... What credibility you have
left is going away by saying stuff like that. Just because he has been
in the sport longer and has more wins. Who cares. Sadler sucks and
Bowyer is fair, while Montoya can race anything and have success at it.

"This after he tried to get out of his contract one year early."
Who could blame him if he in fact tried to do that?


Kit:

You're a douche bag, no one really cares what you care or believe.
Everybody is allowed to post their opinion on here, not just you. JPM...
best driver in the world if he makes the chase


  60.   Ryan posted:
  09.09.2009 - 6:17 pm
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If I were Richard Childress I'd say to Harvick "OK, go play with your
buddy Tony, I'm putting Bobby in the #29 car next year so we can finally
have a champion in this car again, which you aren't". Oh, BTW, Academy
Sports, how stupid do you feel right now?

lol!

I hope Childress isn't that stupid. He needs Harvick more than Harvick
needs him. He better get his act together and sign him again. I'd say if
they part ways Harvick could easily find sponsorship or keep sponsorship
and start his own team. He has done it in truck and nationwide, why not
Nascar?

And no he isn't just a truck owner or nationwide racer, he is an
all-around racer. Former IROC champ, former two-time Nationwide champ,
former Brickyard winner, former Daytona 500 winner, former All-Star race
winner, former Bud Shootout winner, former chase driver... WOW! What a
resume'!!! Only thing missing is a Cup title.


  61.   redbyron posted:
  09.09.2009 - 7:34 pm
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wow!!!!! the testosterone level is high this week....as for comparing
kahne and juan, i never ripped kahne or said juan was better....look
back at my posts, all i said was that NOBODY thought juan would do
anything this year, and he HAS proved many people wrong.....in the past
20 years, no one else from open wheel racing has done much {sullivan,
mears, hornish, franchitti, etc} dale sr, i agree that kulwicki overcame
the odds, but it was a different era.....him winning in 92 would be the
equivalent of robby g winning it now...the average big sponsorship was
worth maybe 5 mill, probably more like 2 mill....it was a tradgedy that
he died, but he PROBABLY would not have ever won another title,
certainly would not have won the races d.allison would have....vickers,
like montoya, has had a great year ,proving many wrong, but comparing
juan to sadler or truex is just stupid....was derrike cope a better
driver than juan because he won 2 cup races and juan has one???? if you
had a race team, would you hire sadler over juan????? honestly??
truex???? truex has been in the same equipment this year and juan has
out qualified and out performed him all year.....dale sr is right about
jordan though......MJ wants to play so bad he can't stand it, he has not
adjusted well to retirement!!!!!


  62.   Kit posted:
  09.09.2009 - 8:18 pm
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You guys need to lighten up a bit. JPM is just having a good season for
Ganassi standards. Let's see it for what it is. Some of you are acting
like the guy has won half the races this season. He has a good season
(for him and Ganassi) but it does not warrant this much discussion.

"One more race and he'll have accomplished more than Vickers by making
the Chase."

I think winning races is more important than making the chase,
especially for someone like JPM who isn't winning, unless you win a
championship. JPM has no oval track wins so far and that's what NASCAR
is all about. He has come close but choked due to his own stupidity.

He is a talented driver but his problem is that he's a hothead who
doesn't display a whole lot of intelligence. That will keep him down.

I remember Tim Richmond so I have no reason to pay attention to JPM as
of now.


  63.   Rusty posted:
  09.09.2009 - 9:55 pm
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Kit, did you just compare those drivers to Hitler???

Some of these guys may be arragant, but they aren't bad people. Those
guys make the sport better, if we had 43 Mark Martins it would be boring.


  64.   redbyron posted:
  09.09.2009 - 10:17 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

tim richmond wasn't the brightest guy in the world, if you want to talk
about stupidity, he was the poster child for "being talented and
throwing it all away".......he was an incredible talent, but allowed his
thirst for women and partying to cost him his career and his life.....
"i think that winning races is more important than winning the
chase"......you might think that, but nascar apparantly doesn't, or they
wouldn't have this "playoff" system in the first place.....before this
chase format, you would have seen guys from 7-12 in the points going
hard for wins at this point in the year, but with this format, where it
is so important to get in that "final 12", it makes perfect sense for
guys like montoya, biffle, newman, etc, to settle for top 10's and not
risk too much.


  65.   Anonymous posted:
  09.10.2009 - 12:37 am
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you guys should watch that youtube video where juan pablo gets busted in
the head by a camera man its so funny what a idiot loser juan is i this
he is just having a jamie mcmurray 2004 with all the tops tens but he
will never be great its that simple and kahne can be a legend his cars
are so sub par but hes gets pretty good results i respect kahne


  66.   Zac posted:
  09.10.2009 - 3:21 pm
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Harvick is signed through 2010 at RCR. He almost won this race. It was
very nice to see him leading laps and doing so well once again.
Hopefully it wasn't a fluke, but with the way RCR has been all year it
probably was.

Juan is definitely a contender in my mind. He's probably another year or
two off from hitting his stride completely. I think he will be strong
for sure.

Final thought: I loved this race at night. Much, much, MUCH better than
California.


  67.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.10.2009 - 4:18 pm
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"And quit saying Sadler is better than Pablo... What credibility you
have left is going away by saying stuff like that."

Good God, do we have to go over this again. And before I post these
stats, I want you to remember this: I am NOT an Elliott Sadler believer.
Read my posts on his page and elsewhere when he had to sue GEM just so
they wouldn't deservingly fire his ass. But, with that being said:

Wins:
SADler: 3
JPM:1

Multi win seasons:
SADler: 1
JPM: 0

Cha$e appearances:
SADler: 1
JPM: 1 (pending)

I might not have credibility, but I do have stats.


  68.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.10.2009 - 4:33 pm
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"Anyone can say that they don't want JJ to be the poster child."

They don't. He has a vanilla public personality. He doesn't have that
love 'em or hate 'em personality that marketers dream of. Plus a win by
JPM would have been a huge PR boost to their Drive for Diversity
program, which is just like everything else NASCAR has put together: It
sucks. Plus it would have been an upset in car with Earnhardt's name on
it in a Chevrolet and not won by NASCAR's official Home Improvement
Warehouse's arch rival. Yes, NASCAR fixes outcomes to what suits them
best. But if you can't see that a JPM win would suit them WAY better
than yet another JJ win, I don't know how to help you.

"Who could blame him if he in fact tried to do that?"

Everybody except Kurt Busch and Jamie McMurray. Everyone who doesn't
quit the moment adversity hits. Everyone who realizes that RCR has been
in way bigger holes before and came out as contenders again.

"no one really cares what you care or believe."

You must, cause you responded to Kit.

"WOW! What a resume'!!! Only thing missing is a Cup title."

Also, in a career in its ninth year, he has watched a calendar year go
by between wins SIX times already, been put on probation more than he's
won, got suspended from a race, has two winless streaks of more than 50
races, his current one will reach 100 if he doesn't win by Dover, and
he's been outperformed by his teammates 3 years in a row. And don't put
son much into Daytona 500 wins. By that standard Michael Waltrip must be
a legend. Ugh.

"if you want to talk about stupidity, he was the poster child for "being
talented and throwing it all away"

But not on the race track. And he got AIDS before it was well understood
outside the scientific community. Had he known about its potential, he
probably would have been safer about it and used a raincoat, if you
catch my drift.


  69.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.10.2009 - 4:41 pm
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Now, in real news, RPM is merging with Yates Racing and will have four
Fords. Their drivers will be Kasey Kahne, Dinger, Elliott Sadler, and
PAUL MENARD! ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?!?!?!?!? PAUL MENARD?!?!? 2000
CUP CHAMPION BOBBY LABONTE GETS THROWN OUT ON HIS ASS AND PAUL MENARD
KEEPS HIS RIDE!!! WHAT A LOAD OF STEAMING STINKING ROTTING SHIT!!!!! I
hate Menards. If they ever put any stores in my area I won't shop there,
I don't care how low their prices are. Paul Menard sucks. PAUL MENARD
SUCKS!!! And he keeps getting a Cup ride cause his Daddy pays the
checks. I'm gonna go throw up now.

But on the bright side, Kasey now has the chance to do something kinda
rare: Win races in 3 consecutive years in 3 different manufacturers
(Dodge in '09, Ford in '10, and the #24 Chevy in 2011). Heh, after all
that fuss Ford made in 2004, suing Kasey saying he breached their
contract when they had no case, they finally get him. Enjoy him, you
bankrupt assholes, you'll only have him for one year.


  70.   Anonymous posted:
  09.10.2009 - 5:08 pm
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Harvick has more than a Daytona 500 win. He's won the Brickyard,
Bristol, Watkins Glen, and All-Star. That's 5 of the biggest races and
covers every type of track. Plus he has an IROC title. There's not many
drivers who wouldn't trade their career accomplishments with his.

Sadler doesn't deserve to even be mentioned in the same breath as
Montoya. Comparing the stats of a guy who has been in this series 10
years to a guy who has been here 3 years is seriously reaching to prove
a point. The first thing that comes to mind when I think of Sadler is
him jumping off the stage on Trackside and no one catching him.

About Kahne taking over the #24, whatever happened to Landon Cassil? He
showed alot of potential then disappeared. I guess Hendrick put all
their eggs in Keselowski's basket. Opps.


  71.   Bronco posted:
  09.10.2009 - 5:36 pm
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Wow, I did not see this one coming. Yet another ownership change, for
what used to be Dodge's flagship team in their return to NASCAR.
Everyone thought it would be Toyota and they switch to Ford of all the
brands.

Know what else this does? This new merger really messes up the Bud
Shootout. As I understand, it's the top 6 manufacturers from the
previous year, plus an extra one (I call it the Tony Stewart rule). If
there are only 3 Dodges next year, the #2, #12 and #77 what does it mean
in terms of the size of the field? Does this new Ford team run Dodges
for the Shootout next year and Fords the rest of the season? Robby
Gordon ran a Dodge in the Shootout this year even after changing to
Toyota. Or does NASCAR just run a 24 car field? What a mess! This is why
those idiots should have never have tampered with the original format.

Another thing, Dale Jr will not be in next year's race unless he can
somehow finish 13th in the points. Thank you NASCAR for screwing a two
time Shootout champion out of a deserved spot in the race. But at least
guys like Hornish and Stale Bread are in, right?

This is also means that the #26 team will probably fold after the season
since Irwin is going to sponsor the Bristol night race next year and
Crown Royal is going to sponsor the #17. The #44 and the 96 will
probably fold as well. I think Reed's days in Cup are numbered, he's
probably going to end up in the #1 Nationwide car next year.


  72.   redbyron posted:
  09.10.2009 - 6:26 pm
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ok dale sr.......as for the stats.
sadler-372 starts,3 wins
juan-98 starts. 1 win

juan has won a greater percentage of the races he has entered in nascar
hah!!!!!


  73.   Dodge posted:
  09.10.2009 - 6:27 pm
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The #44 and the 96 will probably fold as well.
The 44 will be gone but the 96 will not. HOF has already said that they
are looking to merge with someone else and they plan on Keeping Bobby
Labonte as their driver.


  74.   Talon64 posted:
  09.10.2009 - 6:33 pm
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"I might not have credibility, but I do have stats."

In Sadler's first 3 seasons in Cup he had a fuel mileage win at Bristol,
2 top fives and 4 top tens. He had a best points finish of 20th in 2001,
and lost out to Tony Stewart for ROTY in 1999.

So far into Montoya's first 3 seasons he has a win at Infineon (which
fuel mileage also played into), 7 top fives and 21 top tens. He won ROTY
in 2007 and if he makes the Chase he'll finish no worse than 12th in the
standings.

Sadler's career percentages are 0.78% for wins, 4.97% for top fives and
17.2% for top tens. His career average finish is 22.5 with a best of
15.9 in 2004 which was 11th best that season.

Montoya's are 1.02% for wins, 7.1% for top fives and 21.4% for top tens.
His career average finish is 20.9 with a best of 13.6 so far this season
which is 5th best so far.

sorry but my stats speak the truth IMO.


  75.   RR posted:
  09.10.2009 - 6:50 pm
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And keep in mind that Sadler had years of stock car experience before he
came in to NASCAR. Montoya made his first Cup Start with just a few
stock car starts to his name.

As for the merger, I hope Allmendinger get to run the 43 car. He's got
star potential, and I'd love to see the 43 back running well.


  76.   Kit posted:
  09.10.2009 - 7:34 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"if you want to talk about stupidity, he was the poster child for "being
talented and throwing it all away"

We are discussing on-track performance, not off-track performance. Tim
Richmond was a hell of a lot smarter on the race track than JPM ever
will be. So far, JPM has only 21 top tens and one win, on a road course
no less, and you're trying to bash Tim Richmond? Hahaha.


  77.   Eric posted:
  09.10.2009 - 7:37 pm
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I don't see Kahne in a ford after 2010.

I am pretty sure that Roush will give RPM the same treatment that he
gave Yates before the Merger. That means Kasey will not get good
equipment and I am pretty sure that Kasey will be gone as a result.

I could see him going to the following teams for 2011 since the
following teams have Potential free agent drivers:

Hendrick - Jeff's contract is supposedly up after 2010 and Jeff doesn't
the best health on the planet. Mark's contract is up, and Jimmie's
Contract is supposedly up. If Jimmie doesn't resign with Hendrick,
Jimmie is a fool. Who knows if Mark wants to race full time in 2011, I
gave up on guessing games with with Mark.

RCR - Kevin wouldn't be back in 2011. Kevin will go to Stewart's team.
The future of the 29 team is up in the air after 2010 with Shell.

MWR- David Reutimann's contract is up after 2010. Team is up coming, but
if Hendrick has more than 1 driver opening than Hendrick could be
looking at David.


  78.   Eric posted:
  09.10.2009 - 7:59 pm
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I forgot some of the other potential spots that Kasey could go to.

Gibbs - Hamlin is supposedly in a contract year in 2010. Kyle Busch's
contract is supposedly up after 2010. I don't know if Gibbs wants to
resign both of them due to maturity. If Hamlin or Busch wins the Chase
some how, I don't know how Gibbs wouldn't resign one of the two drivers
at least than. This could a good spot for Kasey if one of the two
immature punks decides to leave Gibbs for some reason. Joey needs a
driver to be a mentor like Mark Martin did for Jeff Burton and Matt
Kenseth.

RCR - I forgot to mention that Jeff Burton's Contract is supposedly up
after 2010. This a long shot since the organization is losing sponsors
and the organization is on the decline.

Red Bull racing - Scott Slow's contract is supposedly up after 2010. The
driver is holding the 82 team back. It is a long shot for Kasey to go
there anyway.


  79.   David posted:
  09.11.2009 - 6:50 am
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"As for the merger, I hope Allmendinger get to run the 43 car. He's got
star potential, and I'd love to see the 43 back running well."

You got your wish! AJ Allmendinger is the new driver for the #43 Ford,
and rightfully so! He has outperformed Sorenson all season, and I doubt
the notion Reed is that good of a Cup driver. He seems to be one of
those guys that does better in Nationwide.


  80.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.11.2009 - 4:47 pm
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"The first thing that comes to mind when I think of Sadler is him
jumping off the stage on Trackside and no one catching him."

HAHA! That was hilarious. It's not so much that nobody caught him, he
just jumped way too short and smashed his legs against the railing.


  81.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.11.2009 - 4:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Another thing, Dale Jr will not be in next year's race unless he can
somehow finish 13th in the points."

Well there's one way to finally watch a race without half the airtime
being devoted to Dale Jr. But don't worry, they'll change the rules
again somehow. Besides, he hasn't won a pole this year. I know they have
had the past winner's exemption, or as I call it "The Dale Earnhardt
Exemption" that they created in 2001 when they finally realized he was
never gonna win another pole. If you wanna talk about somebody getting
screwed, how many times did Dale not get to race in years he was the
defending winner? (1981, 1989, 1992)


  82.   Talon64 posted:
  09.11.2009 - 5:26 pm
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The talk I've heard regarding the merger is that Ford (instead of Roush,
but still probably through Roush) is willing to give RPM the support
they need, or at least more support than they were getting from Dodge. I
think Ford's realized that putting all their eggs into the Roush basket
isn't going to work anymore, especially given that Kahne has had a
better season than all of the Roush guys.

I hope this gets Allmendinger more competitive and at least into the top
20 in points next year.


  83.   Bronco posted:
  09.11.2009 - 6:11 pm
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"Well there's one way to finally watch a race without half the airtime
being devoted to Dale Jr."

Maybe. Or they might put him in the studio along with Hollywood Hammond
and Chris Myers to offer analysis. Harvick did the same thing during the
2008 Shootout.

But in any case, it's total bullshit that he gets cut out while
undeserving guys like Stale Bread, Greg Biffle (one of the worst RP
racers I've seen), Brad Keselowski, Marcos Ambrose are in just because
they don't drive Chevys. Heck if I'm not mistaken the start and park #09
and #37 will be in since they're Dodges. What a joke.


  84.   Talon64 posted:
  09.11.2009 - 6:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Isn't Budweiser's current contract to sponsor the Shootout done after
this season? If it is then I'm holding out hope that Coors takes over
and it goes back to polesitters.


  85.   Ryan posted:
  09.11.2009 - 11:07 pm
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Yep, Montoya does have a better winning percentage than Sadler. He's
raced more years. If I had to choose Montoya or Sadler to start up a new
team you better damn guarantee you I'm going to start the Columbian.
Sadler is only still racing in Nascar because of contract issues that
saved his ass...

DaleSrFan:

You make some good points sometimes, but you don't want to give Harvick
his credit where credit is due. He hasn't just won at Daytona. He has
won on intermediated tracks, short tracks, superspeedways, restrictor
plate, road course. And did you seriously compare him to Michael
Waltrip?! WOW!! I'm getting dumber everytime I read one your posts hear
of late. And then you said Sadler was better than Montoya just because
he has raced longer, been in better equipment, and just has a few more
wins. The late great Alan Kulwicki has 5 wins and Kyle Petty has 8... I
guess Kyle is better than Alan? c'mon, quit basing everything on wins!

and btw, get Kit's dick out of your mouth


  86.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.12.2009 - 12:10 pm
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"I guess Kyle is better than Alan? c'mon, quit basing everything on wins!"

Kyle Petty was a damn good racer from the mid 80s to the mid 90s. He won
those eight races in equipment comprable to Montoya's and he won them at
tough tracks like Rockingham, Dover, Watkins Glen, Pocono and the old
Richmond Fairgrounds (after my guy wiped out the Top 5).

"and btw, get Kit's dick out of your mouth"

Isn't Kit a girl's name?


  87.   redbyron posted:
  09.12.2009 - 5:34 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

dale sr....you overrate kyle petty, in my opinion
fact- 8 wins for as long as he drove is not impressive, but let's look
at the 8 wins anyway.....richmond-your boy wrecked the top 5 on the last
lap...watkins glen-rain shortened.....charlotte-only car on lead lap,
very high attrition, the leaders all either blew up or wrecked, lake
speed and buddy arrington fininshed in the top 12, that tells you
something there........pocono-good win, led 148 laps...dover-first race
on the concrete, they obviously hit on something, because he started
38th.......now, the rockingham wins.....started on the pole and won all
3 times, so no argument there.....as a whole, his career is not
impressive.....had his last name been jones or smith, there is no way he
would have kept finding work, much the same as michael WALTRIP and dale
EARNHARDT jr.....their last names have paved the way and kept them in
the sport......


  88.   redbyron posted:
  09.12.2009 - 5:44 pm
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by the way..montoya has more top tens (21) this year than sadler has in
the past FOUR years (20)


  89.   Bronco posted:
  09.12.2009 - 6:44 pm
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"by the way..montoya has more top tens (21) this year than sadler has in
the past FOUR years"

Better check your facts. Montoya has 21 top 10s in his career, not this
year. This year he has 12 top 10s, which is pretty damn good still.


  90.   Kit posted:
  09.13.2009 - 12:03 am
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"Isn't Kit a girl's name?"

Well, it isn't for me because I'm male. I haven't met a whole lot of
people named Kit, so I'm not sure if it's even gender specific.

Eric, I agree entirely with your post. I see RPM's move over to Ford as
a side-step. If anything, it will put them about at the same level they
were a few seasons ago before Dodge started going under. They just
absorbed an organization that was two steps away from disappearing
altogether and they added a shit driver (Menard) to their stable. Plus I
don't think Ford is a good manufacturer to run unless you're Roush and
Roush has turned into a hit and miss team.

I think Kahne will end up at Hendrick next.

Talon64, it's a little biased to compare Sadler's percentages directly
to JPM's percentages when JPM has a lot less starts. Sadler's stats are
spread out over more races. I honestly don't care about comparing Sadler
to JPM, just pointing that out.

"You make some good points sometimes, but you don't want to give Harvick
his credit where credit is due."

Ryan, Kevin Harvick is a slacker driver like Dale Jr. The only
difference between the two is that Harvick will get frusturated and
slack off, whereas Dale Jr. doesn't give a shit either way and will
slack off.

He'll never be as low as Michael Waltrip, but the problem with Harvick
right now is that his Nationwide career is really outshining his Cup
career. Sort of like Waltrip except that Waltrip didn't much much in
Nationwide, but still more than in Cup.

If Harvick had the attitude that Bobby Hamilton and Kasey Kahne have,
not only would he have more wins, but he'd also be in better shape to
decide his fate after RCR. The problem with Harvick going to
Stewart-Haas is that they already have a somewhat lukewarm driver, Ryan
Newman.

"fact- 8 wins for as long as he drove is not impressive"

It is when you consider he raced for second-tier teams at best. He
gained those eight wins while racing for Felix Sabates, I believe.
Sabates really didn't accomplish shit until Ganassi came on board, well
after Kyle Petty jumped ship. Kyle Petty ran at the back of the field by
then because he was fielding Petty Enterprises cars which were not only
competitive, but didn't really have the potential to be competitive
while he was trying to be a driver and company president at the same time.

If you actually watched NASCAR in the early 90s like I did, you would
have known that Kyle Petty was a competitive driver. He came very close
to winning the '92 championship and he has several seasons where he
finished in the top ten in points. Had he not went to Petty Enterprises,
he'd probably have double his wins at the very least.


  91.   Ryan posted:
  09.13.2009 - 3:20 am
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Kyle Petty sucks and Kyle Busch is sitting at home watching the playoffs

And let me be the first to say about Kyle Busch and the Chase...
Se-se-se-se-se-se-seeeeeeeee yaaaaaa Kyle!!!!!!


  92.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  09.13.2009 - 11:07 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Well, it isn't for me because I'm male. I haven't met a whole lot of
people named Kit, so I'm not sure if it's even gender specific."

I'm sorry. I know some people named Catherine that go by Kit.

And yes, Kyle Petty was damn good for a while. He won twice with the
Wood Bothers whom he left after 1988. They have won 3 races in the 21
years since. And Felix Sabates only won one other race without Kyle
before Ganassi bought him out, and that was with Joe Nemechek who he was
in the process of shitcanning. Not a very good owner to say the least.

What makes Kyle's career look so bad is that in the late 90s he tried to
start his own team and resurrect Petty Enterprises so that Adam would
have a place to race. He put all of his focus into his talented son. He
was probably gonna retire soon after 2000 and manage Adam's team. But
Adam was tragically killed and Kyle decided to run the #45 in Adam's
honor for the next decade with a badly declining Petty Enterprises. If
he had been selfish and only looked after himself he would have a lot
more wins. But he wanted his son to do well more than he wanted himself
to do well. God Bless You Kyle Petty.


  93.   Cornys posted:
  09.19.2009 - 5:40 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

yeah... DaleSr.Foreforever

I'll have to agree with your last comment :)

I don't know that I could blam him though...


  94.   TLarson83 posted:
  11.11.2009 - 2:10 am
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In my opinion the best RACE of the '09 season, kept me entertained the
whole night. Got to see the drivers come out this night, Atlanta under
the lights on Labor Day weekend is one NASCAR actually got right.
Looking forward to next year's.


  95.   Daniel posted:
  05.22.2012 - 10:53 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

In using fastest 43: #36 Patrick Carpentier & #78 Regan Smith

Out using fastest 43: #08 Terry Labonte & #96 Erik Darnell


  96.   CBASS posted:
  02.04.2013 - 7:14 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Sponsor updates

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  97.   LASTCAR posted:
  04.24.2013 - 12:56 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Dave Blaney picked up the 12th last-place finish of his career in Sunday
night's Pep Boys Auto 500 at the Atlanta Motor Speedway when his
unsponsored #66 Prism Motorsports Toyota fell out with electrical
problems after completing 19 of the race's 325 laps.

Despite running a strong 19th-fastest time in Friday's first practice
session, Blaney had to squeak his way into the field. As the last car to
qualify, Blaney turned in a speed of 179.673 mph, good enough to secure
the 37th starting spot and bump Regan Smith out of the field. In the
race, Blaney remained in the back during the opening green-flag run.
Still under green on lap 21, Blaney slowed on the backstretch and pulled
behind the wall with electrical problems taking him out of the race. He
was credited with completing 19 laps.

The race marked the second straight year that the #66 car had finished
last in the fall Atlanta event: Scott Riggs, then driving for HAAS-CNC,
finished 43rd in the 2008 running.

With this, his 7th last-place finish of 2009, Dave Blaney now owns the
record for the most last-place finishes ever scored in a single NASCAR
Sprint Cup season, breaking the three-year-old record set by Derrike
Cope in 2006. In the process, Blaney has reached this mark in record
time: Derrike Cope's sixth last-place finish didn't come until the 2006
UAW-Ford 500 at Talladega in October of that year.

Now, with eleven races remaining this season, Blaney can mathematically
claim three more last-place finish records by season's end:

[1] If Blaney gets two more in 2009, he will have fourteen last-place
finishes in his NASCAR Sprint Cup career, the most any driver has
collected since 1998.

[2] With three more last-place finishes for the #66, Prism Motorsports
can beat the single-season team record of nine set in 1992 by Means
Racing (which consisted of drivers Jimmy Means [3 last-place finishes],
Graham Taylor [2], and Johnny McFadden [4]).

[3] If Blaney gets six more, bringing his career total to eighteen, he
will have amassed the second-most last-place finishes in the modern era
of the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series, which dates back to the start of the
1972 season. Derrike Cope's modern era record of 26 will not be topped
in 2009, but Blaney can come within three finishes of this record if he
qualifies for (and finishes last in) the remaining 11 races to be run
this year.

2009 RANKINGS
1st) Dave Blaney (7)
2nd) Mike Bliss, Patrick Carpentier, David Gilliland, Joe Nemechek, Tony
Raines (2)
3rd) Tony Ave, Todd Bodine, P.J. Jones, Matt Kenseth, Bobby Labonte,
Joey Logano, Mark Martin, Mike Wallace (1)

Visit http://brockbeard.blogspot.com/ for more.


  98.   Anthony posted:
  09.05.2016 - 8:10 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (1)

The California experiment only lasted 3 tumultuous years


  99.   chevyfan98 posted:
  12.10.2016 - 6:11 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

This was one of those random great races that never gets talked about
because it didn't really have anything memorable happen and wasn't at a
highly rated track, but the pure racing product in this race was
absolutely amazing.


  100.   RaceFanX posted:
  11.05.2017 - 9:36 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

David Gilliand did a one-off for the Wood Brothers in the Motorcraft #21
for this race to substitute for the injured Bill Elliott after "Awesome
Bill" broke three ribs in a dirt bike accident (it would also keep
Elliott out of the Prelude to the Dream that was run a few days later).
The #21 team found out about the driver change on the Thursday before
the race and extended the pedals and added extra padding to the seat so
a car set up for Elliott would fit Gilliland. ESPN theorized during the
broadcast it might not be the most comfortable set up but David brought
the car home on the lead lap and in the top-20.


  101.   Altracing posted:
  12.08.2018 - 8:12 pm
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100th career cup start for Paul Menard


  102.   Altracing posted:
  12.09.2018 - 7:57 am
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

First career cup series start for Erik Darnell


  103.   JSPorts posted:
  12.09.2018 - 8:52 am
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His best career finish of 29th came at Kansas just 4 races later.
Darnell appeared poised to take over the 96 car full-time in 2010, but
the team shut down instead. He only made 2 more Cup starts after 2009,
and hasn't been in a NASCAR race since his full-time 2012 Xfinity season
driving for The Motorsports Group.


  104.   Josh_Drake posted:
  12.21.2020 - 10:21 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@2 I wonder where that cancer patient is now? It sure sucks seeing your
paint scheme come close to a decent finish and get killed off like that.


  105.   nascarman posted:
  12.22.2020 - 7:52 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Carl's paint scheme was designed by Jody Lawrence. She passed away in
June 2013


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