|| *Comments on the 2009 Sylvania 300:* View the most recent comment <#127> | Post a comment <#post> 1. DaleJrFan18 posted: 09.20.2009 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What an anticlimactic finish, it was looking good until Montoya got loose off of turn two and began to fight with Hamlin. Still Mark won so I cant be too mad. What I can be mad about is Jr getting screwed out of a good finish once again! It just sickens me how well he does and then poof! It's all taken away. Yeah, I'm blaming David for the wreck I don't care what you guys say. It's frustrating as hell for us Jr fans to deal with shit like this week in and week out. 2. flynn posted: 09.20.2009 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt busch - 2009 sprint cup champion. shoulda won today had old tires at the end. 3. Mike posted: 09.20.2009 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know how ya feel DaleJrFan18. Jr had a car capable of WINNING and gets crashed by Reutimann. That's the type of year he's had. I predicted Mark Martin would win the championship and he's off to a good start. I thought Gordon would put up a fight but I'm not so sure after today. We still have a long ways to go though but right now it looks like Mark is the man to beat. 4. Bronco posted: 09.20.2009 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Heartbreak for Dale Jr as Reut puts him in the wall while he was running 4th inside of 20 laps to go. I think he summed it up best by saying David ran out of talent. Harvick also has no luck as some mechanical problems put him 5 laps down. Bobby Labonte was about to do a start and park until some last minute funding came through allowing him to run the full race. He also out performed Erik Darnell yet again, making Hall of Shame look stupid. Unfortunately Bobby's success meant that Gilliland had to sit out this weekend. Aric Almirola makes his first start since Texas and does a decent job in the start and park 09 car. JPM wins the pole for his 100th start which coincided with his birthday and almost won the race. That team is on fire, he will definitely win before the season ends. 5. New 14&88 Fan posted: 09.20.2009 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin's the man...enough said. Looks like the 42 team was saving their stuff just for the chase,if their performance today was any indication JPM could be a dark horse contender for the title. As much as I'd like to see Kurt Busch do good in this chase,the odds are stacked against him with Pat Tryson becoming a lame-duck crew chief.The Penske team's no longer letting him into the shop,and combined with Kurt's out burst over the radio after a bad pet stop(or was it running into David Ragen)I don't see them coming out on top or close to it. 6. Anonymous posted: 09.20.2009 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt will have a difficult time being the 2009 Sprint cup champion. It is caused by the fact Kurt's crew chief is no longer allowed being the Penske shop except for team meetings. That is caused by the fact Kurt's crew chief is leaving after the end of this season to MWR. The 2 team is running well right now, but will they be running well later on the chase since the crew chief doesn't know was is happening in the Penske shop. 7. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.20.2009 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Kid kicks ass again. They were the best when it mattered most. Move over DEI/Ganassi, GEM has now passed you as the worst managed team. Announcing that you will switch to Fords next year and get your engines out of the already existing Yates engine shop BEFORE THE CHASE EVEN BEGINS!!!! Of course people in the GEM engine shop are gonna leave and scramble to find jobs for next year. It's not like Kasey is running for a championship or anything. Ugh. They had just got the new Dodge engine up to par with the powerhouses. Smart move, morons. Oh well, look at the bright side, at least they'll have Paul Menard driving for them next year. BTW, what was Juan whining about at the end? "I could have wrecked him". What a pile of crap. 8. RR posted: 09.20.2009 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice run by Montoya. He fell back on a green flag run, but did a great job of getting back to the front in the last 30 laps. He is for real, and I think he's got an excellent shot at getting a win this season. He runs pretty well at some of the remaining circuits (Talladega, Texas, Martinsville), so we'll see. I'm not really a Junior fan, but I kinda felt bad for him today. You could tell by his voice he was really bummed. 9. Anonymous posted: 09.20.2009 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are my thought on the chase drivers after today: I think Kasey's chases of winning the chase are not that great right now if the top teams don't have problems in the chase. If Mark continues to lead laps and win races, he will be in a long battle. Denny is doing well right now, but when the cutter tracks show up, the performance will not be as strong. Hamlin's best finish is 3rd at a cookie cutter track. I have a difficult time seeing Juan Pablo Montoya continuing to get top 5's like top today. Jimmie Johnson is being his usually self in the chase right now. Johnson gets better as the chase gets on by his history. I already address Kurt Busch at a post on 09.20.09 - 7:49 pm . Ryan Newman got his 4th straight top 10. Ryan is streaky this year, I don't when the bad luck will start happen with him. Greg Biffle getting a 9th place finish today is shock since Roush teams have struggled at this type of a track. I can't put any stock into him being a threat as champion yet. Vickers finish is higher than expected at this type of track. I don't know if he will do the same things at Dover. Vickers could make ground at cookie tracks on some of the driver. Stewart raced better than he finished. He had a problem during the race. I don't know what happened to Jeff Gordon today. Carl finishing 17th is not much of shock, but he much of it is caused by his broken foot? 10. Anonymous posted: 09.20.2009 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, I agree with you with GEM being the worse managed team in cup right now. I expect Kasey some time in to anounce that he will leaving the team for the reason you mentioned. 11. Baker posted: 09.20.2009 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really Tony? Really? You're choking away a championship you know this right? 12. WallaceFan posted: 09.20.2009 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First DNF for " Richrd Petty Motorsports " team all year. 13. Willy on Wheels posted: 09.20.2009 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great job Mark Martin!!!!!! I'm pulling for you all the way!!! 14. Anonymous posted: 09.20.2009 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, Tony didn't choke today. His car had an axle problem. His pit crew is known to miss up this year anyway. 15. Ryan posted: 09.20.2009 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Juan Pablo is actually making ppl believers now... Another potential top 5 finish ruined for Dale Jr. of restarts... Reut-the-mann outta the way ran out of talent way before turn 3 16. Batman posted: 09.20.2009 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Elliott Sadler scored his first top 10 since Daytona in July and first top 10 in a normal oval race this season. His top 10s have come at the restrictor plate races in Daytona and the other on the road course at Sonoma. Casey Mears had a decent run, at times he was in the top 10 before falling back at the end. Jeff Burton was running as high as second before the final round of pit stops under green, I'm not sure how he ended up as far back as he did. Maybe RCR has began taking a step in the right direction for next year. I will say when talking about Bobby Labonte vs. Erik Darnell, we should remember that Bobby Labonte is a Cup champion and Darnell was only making his second career start. I seriously doubt that Labonte could have run as well as he did if he drove the 96 car in this race. I'd like to see what Labonte could do driving for EGR or in the RCR #07 next year. 17. 18fan posted: 09.20.2009 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A.J. Allmendinger had a fast car, but got spun twice in 7 laps. Kyle finished 5th, his best flat track finish this season and third top 5 in four races, but failed post race inspection. Several times Montoya drove into the corner and acted like the guy on the outside wasn't even there. It will be interesting to see if Stewart can recover. Kahne is done. It will probably come down to Hamlin, Johnson, Martin, Gordon, and maybe Stewart and Montoya. 18. NazRacePhan posted: 09.20.2009 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR really almost had a bad wreck today on their hands.. Allmendinger spins on the last lap, while leaders are on the backstretch, and NASCAR doesn't throw a yellow, so when leaders come off of four, they are in a cloud of smoke and Hamlin almost slams into the back of Martin? NICE GOING, NASCAR!! 19. CarlEdwards99 posted: 09.21.2009 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) as a Mark Martin fan, watching him have to restart is painful. Mark is one of the 25 greatest drivers ever IMO, but I think I could out restart him Mark gets his 2nd chase win a lot like his first at Kansas in 05, using a pit call to win (he took 2 to get out front at Kansas 4 years ago). on a side note, did that Moose think he was part of the 5 team LOL He was right beside Mark when he got out of the car in victory lane and was in the front row for team photos. It was kind of funny 20. petty43 posted: 09.21.2009 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) jpm is a giant piece of crap. "maybe next time i will wreck him" who the hell does he think he is.........dale sr. you have one fuel strategy road course win from over two years ago and you think you might wreck one of the cleanest drivers in the sport "next time". i cant stand his stupid laugh after the race either what the hell was that, man i really wish he would go away and drive those glorified go karts again, in that horseshit of a race series across the pond. All day JPM used other guys fenders to get through the turns, even though he clearly had a fast car. dont mistake the ability to be fast with the ability to race. JPM is fast but really bad at RACING he just does not have a mindset for oval racing. passes have to be perfect in nascar, if the hole is to small than you wait for the next lap, you dont just dive the car in like a fool. he kills tires 10-15 laps quicker than they should die, and that is why I guarentee he wont win Bronco, not this year or maybe ever, at least on an oval. o and bronco first of all i am a bears fan so thanks for the quarterback. if your name is a nod to the nfl team. if not, nevermind. on a more serious note why would anybody who seems to be a knowledgeable race fan care about either gilliland or aric almirola. they both sucked in cup and david proved at phoenix last year that he is a bigger idiot than even jpm, at jpm's expense no less. he needs to be gone and i am glad he is. he is what old school drivers like to call a stroker. when brad won at talladega that was a nice run for the 09. finishing 29th ahead of 9 wrecked cars is not a good run, that is a bad run, a good would have been 15th or so. he never even ran up front. we should not be so liberal with the phrase "good run" on this website". top 7 or 8 finish is a great run, 9th thru 15th is good, the rest is crap. thats my piece, my ass should be in bed. 21. John Royal posted: 09.21.2009 - 2:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Montoya showing signs of his Formula One times, he used to win there, be cocky and whine. And then just left the sport. I am starting to believe in Johnson NOT to win championship, this season might be even worth of something. 22. Anonymous posted: 09.21.2009 - 9:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Royal, I heard the reason why Montoya left Formula one was because no top teams in Formula one wanted him. That information came out on Wind Tunnel the year Montoya was leaving McLaren. 23. John Royal posted: 09.21.2009 - 10:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous, you are correct, but it wasn't because Montoya couldn't drive, it was because he was arrogant. 24. Cornys posted: 09.21.2009 - 10:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a great race.... As a Mark Martin fan of course I loved that race.... lol... yeah... Mark isn't very good on the restarts but some how he pulled that one out of his hat... great pit stratagy and then a few good enough restars won that race for him.... JPM could have wrecked him but he wouldn't.... He always talks like that anyhow.... (look at 24 hour of Daytona post race comments "I was killing him through all of the corners" (He lost by almost a lap)) Don't discount his, Johnson or Stewart's Chapionship chances... Here are my picks Hamlin, Busch, Martin & Johnson on of those 4 will most likely win it all this year... Also I have heard that Kyle Busch failed post Race inspection.... 25. RR posted: 09.21.2009 - 11:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, JPM has had several offers to join various F1 teams. The most notable was Red Bull, the team currently second in the Constructors Championship. I don't get why he's getting bashed for being aggresive. I guess "rubbin's racin'" only if you're from the American South. But, since he raced in F1, he must be arrogant!!!! 26. Anonymous posted: 09.21.2009 - 11:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love the debris caution at the end. 3 straight debris cautions in the final 20 laps for the truck series, and now pretty much ever week there's one in the Nationwide and Sprint Cup. It's funny, they waited until everyone cycled through stops to throw it making it that much more obvious. Give me a break NASCAR. 27. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.21.2009 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Petty43, I couldn't have said it any better myself. Mark didn't brake ckeck him, Juan just divebombed the corner like he did all day, just driving into the side of every car. That crap won't fly for long before he starts getting paid back. JPM is just mad because he had the best car, and had multiple chances on restarts, and Mark still kicked his ass in a car with inferior handling. If JPM is truly a "world class driver" then I guess Mark is a "universe class driver". 28. Anonymous posted: 09.21.2009 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JPM is in trouble with Nascar anyway. He blew off a pre-planned satellite interview with a major California Fox affiliate, Sacramento's KTXL. Because of Montoya's Action, Nascar is now of the stations D-list. 29. Logano20 posted: 09.21.2009 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR literally throws a debris caution within the last 30 laps every freakin race whether it be Cup, Nationwide, or trucks. The part that kills me is everyone has given up calling NASCAR out in it. Are people's attention spans really that much shorter than they were 6 years ago that we need a caution every 60 laps to keep them entertained? I honestly don't mind the chase, COT, and other things that mainly are in the targets for naysayers, its just bogus cautions that get me. And some of you are naive enough to say "NASCAR throws legitimate cautions and until someone shows me proof they don't I will always side with NASCAR." Proof? Just go to a race and turn on your scanner. If a questionable caution comes out at the end of a long green flag run, just about every spotter channel will be ringing with things like "saw that coming", "that was predictable", "entertainment caution." And if that isn't good enough tune into NASCAR's channel. I have heard one of the safety trucks report back saying there is no debris and have NASCAR respond "Pick up something so we don't come off as a bunch of idiots." Another instance was Pocono earlier this year. A caution was called for debris in turn 3. I was excited for once, because I was sitting right there at the exit to turn three, so I could actually see what happens under caution that you don't get to see when the networks are at commercial. A safety truck pulled out, stopped almost in front of me, paused for about a minute without anyone getting out, and pulled back behind the wall and the race went back to green. It's the same thing race in and race out. I don't even watch the full events anymore, race reports and highlight clips are good enough. I was tired of people saying "If you don't like the cautions then why are you still watching?" so I took their advice. I just wish they'd get an outside officiating crew to deal with caution calling and penalty decisions, but that won't ever happen. 30. Talon64 posted: 09.21.2009 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A great run by JPM and a great win by Mark. That long run that led into the green flag pitstops is what cost Montoya the win, the car wasn't that great on long runs but was mad fast on the short runs. Kyle Busch was the best of the non-Chasers and came out of nowhere for 5th, but he failed post-race inspection; his left front was too low. Sadler got an 8th place finish which was surprising, and Biffle's 9th might've saved what little championship hopes he has. BTW Mark is now just the 10th driver in NASCAR history to have at least 40 wins and 40 poles in his career. 31. 18fan posted: 09.21.2009 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember in the Nationwide race last week at Richmond, they threw a debris caution. The camera finds a piece of debris, but its a paper cup. Marty Reid was in the booth and he said that the cup couldn't possibly be the debris, but it was. I have several races from the 90s on DVD and the racing is better and also there are no phantom invisibris cautions. I don't like the Montoya has one good race and now he's one of the favorites for the championship. 32. RR posted: 09.21.2009 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano20, you're pretty much spot on. Truthfully, NASCAR has been throwing out these bullshit cautions for a good number of years. It??s now just a horribly kept secret. These phantom debris cautions have been more blatant in the past eight years or so. I think that the bug TV deal could be the primary purpose of this. The networks (especially FOX) are in it for the "show", and thus need as much drama as possible, whether genuine or contrived. Remember, FOX tries to brand the GWC finishes as "Overdrive" in an attempt to produce more drama. The networks crave a last-lap shootout, in part because there is more likely to be a big crash that can be played for a commercial (see Talladega 2009). The sad part is, most of the drivers like it; and not just when it benefits them. You'll usually hear them say that "it produces better racing for the fans" and all kinds of NASCAR talking points. One guy actually called a spade a spade. Remember when Tony Stewart said on his radio show that NASCAR was becoming more like professional wrestling? Then what happened? NASCAR practically forced him to apologize, and toe the NASCAR line. Whether you like him or not, he was pretty much spot on. The "sporting" part of NASCAR is fading away, and not only because of the debris cautions. Things like the lucky dog rule, COT (which really hasn't achieved its "goal"), and the Top 35 rule are all ways of doing this. 33. Ryan posted: 09.21.2009 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not trying to compare Montoya to Earnhardt, but why is it that Dale could drive aggressive and bang up against other cars going into turns as a way to get by and be glorified for it and Montoya do it and looked down on? Earnhardt perfected that, and Montoya is doing what he has to do to try and win this championship. 34. redbyron posted: 09.21.2009 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) thanks ryan......dale sr was the WORST sport in this sport's history...... dalesr fan will post as soon as he gets done watching a replay of the 98 500 35. redbyron posted: 09.21.2009 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "i don't like it that montoya has one good race and now he's one of the favorites for the championship" one good race??? are you talking about Juan PABLO montoya???? he who has lifted egr racing from ruins and lies 4th in the standings???? he who won the indy 500, the cart title, 7 formula one races, a busch race, a cup race, and made the chase in only his 3rd full year??????? him???? well, in the words of ric flair, "like it, or don't like it....but learn to LOVE it!!!" WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 36. Bronco posted: 09.21.2009 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If JPM is truly a "world class driver" then I guess Mark is a "universe class driver". How many times do we have to go over this? JPM is a world class driver because he has competed against, and beat some of the world's greatest racing talents. He has won the CART championship, the Indy 500, a bunch of F1 races and two straight Rolex 24s. Mark has had success only in NASCAR. And spare us your complaining about JPM's rough driving. An Earnhardt fan of all people shouldn't criticize another driver for being rough out there. "Remember when Tony Stewart said on his radio show that NASCAR was becoming more like professional wrestling? Then what happened? NASCAR practically forced him to apologize, and toe the NASCAR line." I remember that pretty clearly. It was during the 2007 spring Phoenix race when Stewart was closing in on a possible win, when a fake caution erased his lead, allowing Gordon to slip by him for the lead and the win. The next week at Talladega, NASCAR wouldn't even let the team unload Stewart's car until they spoke to him about how his words were "detrimental to stock car racing". And yet this is the same guy who they handed last year's AMP Energy 500 to. 37. CarlEdwards99 posted: 09.21.2009 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm sick of hearing about JPM's F1 and CART wins. Even open wheel people will tell you CART, F1 and IRL is about 80% car %20 driver. Basically, it's a technology sport, not a drivers sport. NASCAR on the other hand is about 50% car 50% driver. NASCAR is a drivers sport. and MR. 1 for 100 (with the 1 coming thanks to fuel mileage) has a long way to go to prove himself in the drivers sport 38. petty43 posted: 09.21.2009 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) if jpm is so great, win a damn race then. look what kyle busch did in his first 3 years. quite making excuses for liking jpm if you like him as a driver fine, but the guy is a giant assbag and a prick and thats that. using a ric flair quote to support an argument for jpm is just way to unusual. as far as senior is concerned when you have 20-30 wins and a couple cups you get some leeway with the fans, especially when half of them loved the guy. if you cannot understand the connection that man made with the fans of this sport than you probably were not a fan at the time he raced it was surreal. kind of like jordan in the NBA he could get away with walking and some fouls because he was king turd of the NBA. JPM is just a piece of shit, not a king turd. F-1 wins are not impressive to me because those cars have way to many driver aids or least they did then. when JPM wins at Darlington or martinsville i will eat my words.............i like my odds. 39. Anonymous posted: 09.21.2009 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "JPM is a world class driver because he has competed against, and beat some of the world's greatest racing talents." Well, he sure as hell isn't beating them here because NASCAR is filled with some of the world's greatest talents. "He has won the CART championship, the Indy 500, a bunch of F1 races and two straight Rolex 24s. Mark has had success only in NASCAR." Mark could have won in those series as well, you dumbass. If you think those series are so much better than NASCAR, quit commenting on the NASCAR races so much. Focus on those races. 40. Kit posted: 09.21.2009 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "one good race??? are you talking about Juan PABLO montoya???? he who has lifted egr racing from ruins and lies 4th in the standings???? he who won the indy 500, the cart title, 7 formula one races, a busch race, a cup race," EGR is still in the ruins. They're having one good season, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are on the same level they were in 2001 and 2002. They're not even close. As far as JPM is concerned, he should have been able to win this race. He was fastest in EVERY practice and started on the pole. I don't quite see what the back patting is all about when he finished lower than he should have. Plus the fact that he blew off an interview like the arrogant, dumb asshole that he is. Oh, and CART titles and F1 race wins don't mean shit in NASCAR. That's like saying you can be a great running back for the Cowboys because you've done well stealing bases for the Rangers. Kasey Kahne needs to start looking for another team; they are really holding him back. It's obvious that Kahne would be a year-in, year-out contender with the right team. If he were in the #48, he would be doing at least as good as Johnson, easily. I'm hoping that Kahne goes to Hendrick eventually. If not, maybe Gibbs can dump Busch for Kahne. A rare top 10 finish for Sadler. "Heartbreak for Dale Jr as Reut puts him in the wall while he was running 4th inside of 20 laps to go. I think he summed it up best by saying David ran out of talent." Like Dale Jr. has any f**king room to talk. He's doing as poorly as Casey Mears in a Hendrick car. For all the bitching and whining Dale Jr. fans are doing regarding this wreck, if Dale Jr. took care of business in other races when he had the shot, this wreck wouldn't be as big of a deal. It's a combination of the recession and the sport going downhill for a guy like Bobby Labonte to be stuck with a start and park team. 41. Kevin posted: 09.21.2009 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All I have to say is, 50 years old and five wins. Mark Martin is a stud! I believe Harry Gant won two races when he was 50, another stud! 42. Bronco posted: 09.21.2009 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Mark could have won in those series as well, you dumbass. If you think those series are so much better than NASCAR, quit commenting on the NASCAR races so much. Focus on those races." Dumbass, if you read my post in the proper context I was simply illustrating to DSFF why JPM is a world class driver while Mark is simply a good NASCAR driver. I am in no way glorifying CART, F1 or the Grand Am series. Could Mark have won in those series? Maybe, but the bottom line is he didn't. Oh yeah, and at least have the decency to have a real user name. "Well, he sure as hell isn't beating them here because NASCAR is filled with some of the world's greatest talents." Uh no, NASCAR is filled with AMERICA's greatest talents, not the world's greatest talents. 41 of 43 drivers were born in the US, how the hell is that indicative of the world's greatest talents? "If not, maybe Gibbs can dump Busch for Kahne." I'm glad you're not a team owner, because anyone who did that would probably be the biggest idiot in the world. 43. Anonymous posted: 09.21.2009 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Mark could have won in those series as well, you dumbass." You know that how? 44. 18fan posted: 09.22.2009 - 12:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gant won eight races after the age of 50. Mark has won five. He has to win a race in August or later of 2011 to break Gant's record as the oldest race winner. I think he can do it, as he signed for another year, 2011, with HMS. 45. 18fan posted: 09.22.2009 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reutimann also just wrecked Jeff Burton, proving his success earlier this year was a fluke as he's run like shit lately except for Atlanta. Burton was running well, but Montoya ran over him and damaged his car. I hated how Montoya basically use other cars to turn all day long, and Andy Petree likes it. Dale drove aggressively, but he didn't use other cars doors to turn all day with the fastest car in the field. ESPN has bought his hype and loves him now. Just like they did with Clint Bowyer two years ago and with Carl Edwards last year. 46. Sean posted: 09.22.2009 - 2:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin did win his class a couple times in the 24 Hours of Daytona, and he doesn't even come from a road racing background, so he's done a little bit outside NASCAR, and he was the best IROC driver ever (although it's silly to compare stock-car drivers and open-wheel drivers in IROC, it does say something that he usually beat Gordon and often beat Earnhardt there.) I'm not a fan of HMS, but I do want to see Martin culminate his career with a title. If Kahne does go to HMS as is predicted here by Kit and DSFF, I would suspect he'd go to Hendrick proper and not Stewart-Haas, replacing either Gordon or Martin when they retire. Junior could make this really easy if he decides to bring JR Motorsports up to Cup as another Hendrick satellite and drive for the team. Hendrick would have room for a new official team, bring back car #25 and reunite with Budweiser. Montoya was overly aggressive but I thought Kurt and Hamlin were too. Montoya and Hamlin did have some good racing mid-race. While JPM underachieved here and at Indy, I do think he overachieved in other races (Atlanta, Pocono) and on average he's meeting the level of his equipment rather than overachieving (Kahne) or underachieving (Junior, Harvick). I do wonder why Montoya has been crushing Truex all season, given Truex's much greater stock car experience. I think one large reason people are giving JPM credit is because of the vis-a-vis comparisons with Truex, who has been nowhere to be seen, despite making the chase two years ago. 47. RR posted: 09.22.2009 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where to begin... "I'm sick of hearing about JPM's F1 and CART wins. Even open wheel people will tell you CART, F1 and IRL is about 80% car %20 driver. Basically, it's a technology sport, not a drivers sport. NASCAR on the other hand is about 50% car 50% driver. NASCAR is a drivers sport." Well, I guess in a series that debates whether or not to have fuel injection, and only went to unleaded fuel a couple of years ago, would consider any innovation as "cheating." You fail to realize the amount of force that an open-wheel driver has to endure simply to turn the car; something like 4-5 G's. The car doesn't turn itself. That's as stupid as saying "NASCAR has power steering (which it does, BTW) so the car turns itself." Who are these people that state that open-wheel is most the car? Don't answer that, because I'm "90% sure" that it's stuff you're pulling out of your ass. "If you think those series are so much better than NASCAR, quit commenting on the NASCAR races so much." NASCAR takes up the majority of the spotlight. WRC, V8 Supercars, WTCC, BTCC, DTM, FIA GT, Trans-Am, and a host of other series aren't shown on the channel that's supposedly devoted to all things racing. But they will show Cup Lite practice and an episode of Pinks in a heartbeat. "That's like saying you can be a great running back for the Cowboys because you've done well stealing bases for the Rangers." That's a stupid statement. Like I've said, all forms of racing require the same basic set of traits. In both, the primary purpose is still the same. It's not apples and oranges, but like Granny Smith and Macintosh. 48. Dodge posted: 09.22.2009 - 11:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) From what I heard I highly doubt Budweiser will be on a HMS car ever again. I guess Hendrick was livid when Bud left because they had just signed a contract extension when it was announced they would leave to be the sponsor for a new DEI Chevy for Dale Jr. 49. redbyron posted: 09.22.2009 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) martin truex was handpicked to lead the DEI operation back to glory.... he had busch experience and a busch title, i believe, and gets crushed like a grape by a guy who most of you think sucks in his 3rd year of nascar.......either some of you were WAY off on truex supposed talent, or you're WAY off on saying that montoya sucks....and i KNOW the earnhardt nation thinks that mark gets better equipment than jr......yeah, montoya probably gets better equipment too, right? 50. 18fan posted: 09.22.2009 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2007 was a total fluke for Truex. SPEED Channel is only fun to watch on weekends. They show too much Pinks and other crap. Except Wrecked, that show is awesome. 51. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.22.2009 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Mark has had success only in NASCAR." When has he ever tried to race anywhere outside of NASCAR? I think he has made a few sporadic sports car starts and that is it. NASCAR is his only focus. And if those other series are so great, why do all their drivers try like hell to come to NASCAR? JPM may have beat those drivers all over the world, but Mark beat him this week even though JPM had the dominant car. "How many times do we have to go over this?" Until you realize that his open wheel accomplishments mean nothing in NASCAR. I'll go back to Michael Jordan playing baseball. How much did those NBA championship rings and MVP trophies mean on the diamond? Nothing. Same deal here. "EGR is still in the ruins." Exactly. They only have two full time cars. Martin Truex couldn't get out fast enough. I like Martin, but he only has one win in four years. When he is bolting, that should tell you something. And his replacement will most likely be another scrub like Jamie McMurray or Reed Sorenson. Bass Pro is trying like hell to get out of their deal. Compare what JPM has done for EGR to what David Reutimann has done for MWR. Yeah, Juan is in the cha$e and Reut isn't, but the future sure looks a lot brighter for Robert Kauffman Racing. Oops, I mean "Michael Waltrip" Racing. "I was simply illustrating to DSFF why JPM is a world class driver " Which, again, must make Mark a universe class driver. "I'm glad you're not a team owner, because anyone who did that would probably be the biggest idiot in the world." So is Rick Hendrick the biggest idiot in the world? He dumped Busch and looks pretty good for doing so. Kyle Busch is a cancer for team morale. Put Kasey in that #18 car and he will win just as much, wreck a hell of a lot less, and win some championships. "Dale drove aggressively, but he didn't use other cars doors to turn all day with the fastest car in the field." Exactly. He didn't do it nearly as often as JPM. Plus he knew how to do it successfully. Where has it gotten Juan? 1 win in 100 starts. "Like I've said, all forms of racing require the same basic set of traits." Wrong. "dalesr fan will post as soon as he gets done watching a replay of the 98 500" Yeah, I was watching the part where every single pit crew member lined up on pit road to congratulate Dale on finally winning it. For a driver supposedly just as dirty as JPM, people sure respected the hell out of him. Ya think that will ever happen with JPM? The only way that scene will EVER be duplicated is if Mark wins the Cup. So campare Dale's driving to JPM's all you want, but also compare people's reactions to the two. 52. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.22.2009 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for Kasey Kahne, his contract is up after next year, and I think Gordon will retire after next year. Ding ding ding! He'll have to suffer through one more year with the Gillette's, this time in Roush's hand-me-down stuff that isn't that great to start with, then he can really spread his wings. 53. redbyron posted: 09.22.2009 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "he didn't do it nearly as often as jpm"..... there you go,losing credibility again..... richmond 86, rockingham (wrecks hamilton in the 43) bristol (wrecks terry) bristol again (wrecks terry again)..........you want to continue looking like you drank too much of the earnhardt kool aid????? here's the sad part, he was talented enough that he wouldn't have had to be as dirty as he was, but he got caught up in his own image so much, that he almost became a caricature of himself......that image, most of which was built by teresa, who was smart enough to realize that would make him a LOT of money and sell LOTS of shirts (see STONE COLD steve austin's supposed 'attitude" as an example} was mostly phony......did he hunt? yeah. did he fish? yeah. was he this badass rebel everyone made him out to be? no. why did his best friend, joe whitlock, kill himself???? because joe realized that his best friend had SOLD OUT!!!! he wrecked more people than any other nascar champion ever did, soooooooooooo, DSFF, git you a cold one and pop in the 1992 world 600, the one he won where he sped all the way down pit road, yet nascar turned the other cheek, like they did WHENEVER he wrecked someone, because THEY made LOTS AND LOTS of money from that shenanigans too 54. RR posted: 09.22.2009 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Compare what JPM has done for EGR to what David Reutimann has done for MWR. Yeah, Juan is in the cha$e and Reut isn't, but the future sure looks a lot brighter for Robert Kauffman Racing." Wait, you're not making sense. EGR is a crappy team, thus JPM is a crappy driver because he can't lift the team up (which is stupid in itself). So, how do you explain your worship of Kahne? RPM is a terrible team so, by your logic, Kahne sucks as well. Kahne will most certainly get a ride if RPM continues their downward trajectory. By the same token, Montoya will damn sure get a ride if he leaves EGR. I'm not sure why you always want to compare Kahne and Montoya, and then proclaim that Kahne would wipe the floor with him. In my opinion, they are both good driver, but are currently a notch below Gordon, Johnson and Stewart. "Wrong." Excellent argument! "And if those other series are so great, why do all their drivers try like hell to come to NASCAR? JPM may have beat those drivers all over the world, but Mark beat him this week even though JPM had the dominant car." 1. To begin with, not every single driver has the ambition to go to NASCAR. The ones that do are in it for the money, simply put. You think running ??stock? car with technology that peaked during the Kennedy Administration is really the pinnacle of motorsport? 2. JPM had the dominant car for the first half of the race. Even then, his car faded during the long runs. Martin and Hamlin had cars that were equal or better than JPM's the second half of the race. Montoya had to come from seventh to second after the phantom debris caution. I forgot this inane post... "F-1 wins are not impressive to me because those cars have way to many driver aids or least they did then. when JPM wins at Darlington or martinsville i will eat my words" Have you ever even watched an F1 race? Or are you one of those people who lambast anything that isn't NASCAR? If you've ever seen an in-car camera shot of an F1 driver in the cockpit, you'll see how wrong that statement is. Oh, and Martinsville is one of JPM's best tracks, so you might not want to bet too much. 55. Talon64 posted: 09.22.2009 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wrong." How would you know when I doubt you've sat down to watch an entire race in any series other than NASCAR? "Until you realize that his open wheel accomplishments mean nothing in NASCAR. I'll go back to Michael Jordan playing baseball. How much did those NBA championship rings and MVP trophies mean on the diamond? Nothing. Same deal here." That's a stupid analogy to begin with, it takes different skill sets to play baseball versus basketball while it's similar to the same between different racing series. It's like comparing IRL to speed skating. 56. redbyron posted: 09.22.2009 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) thanks talon....i tried to explain that to DSFF a month ago, but he didn't get it......tony stewart can drive the crap out of a stock car, and drive the crap out of an indy car.....why??? he is a RACER!!!!!! he drives friggin RACE CARS!!!! can derek jeter dunk??NO can kobe bryant play short for the yankees? NO why?????? BECAUSE THEY PLAY DIFFERENT SPORTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 57. Bronco posted: 09.22.2009 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Until you realize that his open wheel accomplishments mean nothing in NASCAR." When did I say open wheel accomplishments meant something in NASCAR? I said JPM's open wheel and sports car accomplishments mean he's a world class racer. My point is simply this - a world class driver is one who is successful at different forms of racing. "Like I've said, all forms of racing require the same basic set of traits." I agree with this, and to say "Wrong" is pretty dumb. The skills that a NASCAR champ has are similar to those of an F1 champ, and IRL champ etc. Racing still involves two to four wheels and the goal of crossing the start/finish line as the leader no matter where you go. 58. Smokefan05 posted: 09.22.2009 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Redbyron Dale didn't "wreck" Bobby Hamlition at Rockingham in 1996, he moved him out of the way. Yeah, Bobby hit the wall but saved it. There are 3 ways to pass people: 1# pass them cleanly 2# Use the front bumper and move them out of the way (what Dale did) 3# YOU FLAT YOU WRECK'EM!!!!!!!!! Appearenly you can't tell the difference between #2 and #3. Bobby was in racing terms "wrecked" but Bobby had the car control and talent to save it. Jeremy Mayfield did #2 to Dale at Pocono in 2000. Both of Dale and Jeremy did to the person in front of them was MOVE THEM OUT OF THE WAY. BTW Dale did get the black Flag for rough driving on more than once. So NASCAR didn't turn a "blind eye" to what he was doing. In terms of NASCAR F1 whine fest. NASCAR is best in stock car racing while F1 is best in OW terms (above IRL). I don't watch F1 anymore but i have enough respect for the drivers and teams, IRL is the same thing. The fans are another matter. 59. petty43 posted: 09.22.2009 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i have watched f1 races and they are decided at the start of the race and with pit stragey, there is no passing just keep the car on the track, race the track and never ever race your teammate. yep think that sums up the last 10 years of that sport, and i speak for so many fans who stopped going to the racein indy because it was a joke. F-1 is so screwed right now anyways, so i dont really care about it anymore. my favorite forms of racing in order nascar, nhra, then everything else. guess i am just a big hillbilly shitstain. i'll wear it, beats being a jpm troll on the internet race site. JPM will never beat the hendrick cars at martinsville. 60. 18fan posted: 09.23.2009 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin becomes the second driver this year to lead 1,000 laps. (Jimmie Johnson being the other). I think Kyle and Mark will both reach that mark. I'm not sure if anybody else can reach 1,000 laps led. 61. Bronco posted: 09.23.2009 - 12:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm not sure if anybody else can reach 1,000 laps led. " Jeff Gordon could very easily get there. He has about 700 right now, and at Martinsville he will probably lead at least 100, and he will make up the rest at the remaining tracks. 62. CarlEdwards99 posted: 09.23.2009 - 1:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You fail to realize the amount of force that an open-wheel driver has to endure simply to turn the car; something like 4-5 G's. The car doesn't turn itself." of course it doesn't turn itself. I never said the driver had no impact (I thought saying it was 20% driver would give that away, guess not), but compared to NASCAR, the driver plays a lot less of a impact and the 80-20 vs. 50-50 I said has been aknowledged by many across the world of motorsports, not something I just came up with. "Uh no, NASCAR is filled with AMERICA's greatest talents, not the world's greatest talents. 41 of 43 drivers were born in the US, how the hell is that indicative of the world's greatest talents?" Bronco, the United States has a passion for Motorsports equal to about any country in the world and more passion than most. Add that to the fact the United States has a population of 300 million and the resources of a world super power and the fact is, most of the WORLDS greatest talent IS AMERICAN talent. It's kind of like basketball, 70-80 of the 100 best players in the world are American. 63. CarlEdwards99 posted: 09.23.2009 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You fail to realize the amount of force that an open-wheel driver has to endure simply to turn the car; something like 4-5 G's. The car doesn't turn itself." another thing, if NASCAR's are not any harder to drive and the talent is so equal in open wheel compared to NASCAR, how come after 3 years to adjust, Juan, former F1 star, only has 3 top 5s in 27 races? 64. Kit posted: 09.23.2009 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Uh no, NASCAR is filled with AMERICA's greatest talents, not the world's greatest talents. 41 of 43 drivers were born in the US, how the hell is that indicative of the world's greatest talents?" Since when has the USA not been a part of the world? 65. Talon64 posted: 09.23.2009 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "another thing, if NASCAR's are not any harder to drive and the talent is so equal in open wheel compared to NASCAR, how come after 3 years to adjust, Juan, former F1 star, only has 3 top 5s in 27 races?" How come Scott Speed failed spectacularly in F1 yet jumped to the front in ARCA, Trucks and has run well in Nationwide this year? Cup's been a struggle but no more than any recent open wheel drivers making the transition. BTW those 3 top fives have come in the last 7 races. If drivers are that insignificant in F1 then why do teams like Ferrari and Mclaren, the two best teams in F1, always try to get the best drivers? Why did Ferrari replace Schumi with Kimi Raikkonen if they could've gotten someone not as good for much cheaper but still probably won races with them? "Since when has the USA not been a part of the world?" The only US-born drivers to find success in international racing series or events lately have been sports car drivers. Patrick Long is a good example, he's won class victories at the 24 Hours of Daytona, Petit le Mans, Sebring, and overseas at the 24 Hours of Le Mans and he's been running well in his East/West Series oval races. In terms of NASCAR, forget it. If you don't compete against drivers from across the world then how can you be considered world class? There are some great drivers in NASCAR but most of them are only great NASCAR drivers. TMark Martin is probably the best examples of great NASCAR drivers who've also proven themselves in other series against international talent while Tony Stewart was the opposite, finding success elsewhere before coming to NASCAR. 66. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.23.2009 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, git you a cold one and pop in the 1992 world 600, the one he won where he sped all the way down pit road, yet nascar turned the other cheek" OK, then you "git" out a tape of the 1993 World 600, the one where they penalized Dale for speeding on pit road then penalized for spinning Greg Sacks out even though he never touched him. Oh, by the way, Dale still led the most laps and won the race. "but he got caught up in his own image so much, that he almost became a caricature of himself" A caricature? He is a legend. His numbers speak for himself. He could have done all the badass stuff he wanted, but if he didn't rule NASCAR for 20 solid years nobody would have given a shit. Look at Scott Slow, he is trying like hell to get people to pay attention his "persona" and nobody cares. "no. why did his best friend, joe whitlock, kill himself???? because joe realized that his best friend had SOLD OUT!!!!" If you're gonna kill yourself because your best friend sold out, then you have issues to start with. It's called mental illness. "Wait, you're not making sense. EGR is a crappy team, thus JPM is a crappy driver because he can't lift the team up" I was comparing all the good drivers and crew members and sponsors that MWR is attracting to all drivers, crew members, and sponsors that have bolted EGR. They saw what Reut could do at MWR, and saw that the "franchise" was a stable force. "I'm not sure why you always want to compare Kahne and Montoya, and then proclaim that Kahne would wipe the floor with him." The stats speak for themselves. "You think running ??stock? car with technology that peaked during the Kennedy Administration is really the pinnacle of motorsport?" Yes, because it promotes the competition of drivers and crew more than cars running with modern technology. It allows things to be on a more even level, and makes the cars much more difficult to drive. Therefore, in order to prove themselves, they must race and be successful in NASCAR driving with technology from the Kennedy administration. " tried to explain that to DSFF a month ago, but he didn't get it......tony stewart can drive the crap out of a stock car, and drive the crap out of an indy car.....why??? he is a RACER!!!!!! he drives friggin RACE CARS!!!!" What about Al Unser Jr, Dario Franchitti, Paul Tracy, AJ Foyt IV, Jaques Villinueve (sp?), Patrick Carpentier, Jimmy Vasser, Sam Hornish Jr, Scott Slow, Jason Leffler, JJ Yeley, Casey Mears? There is nothing comparable to stock cars and Indy cars. Your boy, JPM, even said so himself. Did you see his response when he was asked about Danica coming to NASCAR? After his infamous (and accurate) "She has no idea what she's getting into", he detailed that nothing he learned in the open wheel world translates to NASCAR. "Racing still involves two to four wheels and the goal of crossing the start/finish line as the leader no matter where you go." And the goal in baseball, football, hockey, basketball, field hockey, soccer, rugby, water polo, volleyball, tennis, and amateur wrestiling is to score the most points. So I guess they all require the same skill sets. Again, read JPM's own words. "How would you know when I doubt you've sat down to watch an entire race in any series other than NASCAR?" So you start out with "How would you know" then make an assumption about me that you have no idea about. Brilliant. "In terms of NASCAR, forget it. If you don't compete against drivers from across the world then how can you be considered world class?" Well, Montoya is a "world class talent" and has won once in 100 starts, so I guess everyone that has won at least once since Juan stated racing NASCAR (including Casey Mears, Kevin Harvick, Jamie McMurray, Ryan Newman, David Reutimann, Joey Logano, Brian Vickers, Brad Keselowski, Regan Smith, and Clint Bowyer) are also world class talents. 67. redbyron posted: 09.23.2009 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) there are only 2 ways to pass someone #1 cleanly #2 Not cleanly what dale did to bobby was NOT cleanly what jeremy did to dale was NOT cleanly you wanna talk about richmond and bristol?????? dale received ONE black flag for rough driving.....world 600, 1992, for wrecking greg sachs, of all people. by the way, that is the SAME race dale sped down pit road, miraculously making up 6 secs in the pits on leader kyle petty, who had a faster pit stop!!!!! of course, he won that race, thanks to the blind eye of nascar anything else you wanna bring up????? 68. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.23.2009 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "guess i am just a big hillbilly shitstain." You an me both, brother. "but compared to NASCAR, the driver plays a lot less of a impact and the 80-20 vs. 50-50 I said has been aknowledged by many across the world of motorsports, not something I just came up with." Exactly. Again, JPM said this himself. "BTW Dale did get the black Flag for rough driving on more than once. So NASCAR didn't turn a "blind eye" to what he was doing." He got penalized 5 laps once for wrecking Geoff Bodine (totally worth it). He got penalized at Richmond in 1987 for racing Darrell Waltrip on pit road. He got fined 10,000 bucks for ignoring the black flag in the Busch Clash once, and fined for the infamous "1986 Richmond incident". NASCAR didn't penalize Dale in 1992 because he was behind in the points standing and they needed him to win to keep the points standing close as the Fords were threatening to run away with the championship (they did anyway). They penalized him in 1993 because he was running away with the points so they didn't need him to win that race (he did anyway) and run away with the championship (he did anyway). 69. Talon64 posted: 09.23.2009 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So you start out with "How would you know" then make an assumption about me that you have no idea about. Brilliant." Then give me an idea, have you watched anything other than NASCAR? If you have then I made a stupid assumption. "Well, Montoya is a "world class talent" and has won once in 100 starts, so I guess everyone that has won at least once since Juan stated racing NASCAR (including Casey Mears, Kevin Harvick, Jamie McMurray, Ryan Newman, David Reutimann, Joey Logano, Brian Vickers, Brad Keselowski, Regan Smith, and Clint Bowyer) are also world class talents." You're completely missing the point of "world class". Casey Mears is the only guy among those you named who competed in a significant race or series against other international drivers and won, winning the 24 Hours at Daytona a few years ago. For the rest, the only significant racing series they've competed in is Cup. But lol at including Regan Smith in that list since he should've won that Talledega race. BTW Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson have both competed in the Race of Champions in France against WRC, sports car, touring car and F1 drivers and won the Nations Cup event in 2003 although Colin Edwards was a big reason why. 70. redbyron posted: 09.23.2009 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK so, is your perceived "rough driving" of JPM any different than what senior did, quite often by the way and....name any nascar champion who started more accidents, or wrecked,more than senior....... and.....i loved the way nascar allowed senior to race with head injuries, especially after he passed the entire field at full speed at darlington on the PACE lap!!!!! don't tell me he didn't have bill france jr wrapped around his finger..... if wrecking geoff bodine was "totally worth it", then had JPM planted mark martin and won the race, wouldn't that have been totally worth it too???? as for continuing to compare baseball and basketball as if they were the same, while saying stock cars and indy cars are more different......you must have ridden the short bus to school 71. RR posted: 09.23.2009 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I was comparing all the good drivers and crew members and sponsors that MWR is attracting to all drivers, crew members, and sponsors that have bolted EGR. They saw what Reut could do at MWR, and saw that the "franchise" was a stable force." So Burger King, Domino's, and UPS don't count? "Yes, because it promotes the competition of drivers and crew more than cars running with modern technology. It allows things to be on a more even level, and makes the cars much more difficult to drive. Therefore, in order to prove themselves, they must race and be successful in NASCAR driving with technology from the Kennedy administration." So, in other words, NASCAR (the top series in North America) should have no technology, bland cars, and shitty performance? Hell, let??s just have them race Model Ts. That's what the lower series should be about. The top levels of automobile racing should not only involve the best drivers, but it should also have the best engineers, mechanics, and other personnel, along with the finest machines in the world. It should involve competition amongst engines, chassis, etc. Wasn't NASCAR built in part upon the innovation of the people working on the cars? And, yes, the pinnacle of motor sports should involve the latest technologies that can be used as an advantage, provided that is doesn't take too much from the drivers. The FIA has constantly made changes to the regulations to put more emphasis on the driver, while at the same time keeping relevant automotive standards. Such a series should be the final rung on the racing ladder. "(Casey Mears, Kevin Harvick, Jamie McMurray, Ryan Newman, David Reutimann, Joey Logano, Brian Vickers, Brad Keselowski, Regan Smith, and Clint Bowyer) are also world class talents." How many F1 and CART races have those drivers won? ??but compared to NASCAR, the driver plays a lot less of a impact and the 80-20 vs. 50-50 I said has been aknowledged by many across the world of motorsports, not something I just came up with." Ah yes, the ambiguous people in the world of motorsports. I know who you're talking about now. --- Nobody has said that any driver could hop out of an open-wheel car and automatically be successful at NASCAR. It's a huge learning curve. I never said that driving a stock car takes exactly the same skills as driving an open wheel car. But great drivers can learn to adapt to any race car, because they have the right skills that translate from all disciplines. 72. RR posted: 09.23.2009 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and I think that it is nice for racing to have a role in development for the future cars on the street. How does the "stock" car relate to the cars at the dealrship? ALMS, F1, WRC, and other touring car series all have more impact on normal cars. 73. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.23.2009 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The top levels of automobile racing should not only involve the best drivers, but it should also have the best engineers, mechanics, and other personnel, along with the finest machines in the world" They have a series that does that. It's called Formula 1 and it is boring as shit. "Casey Mears is the only guy among those you named who competed in a significant race or series against other international drivers and won, winning the 24 Hours at Daytona a few years ago." Yeah, and guess what: He sucks!! He stepped in the #5 Hendrick car after Kyle Busch won 4 times in 3 years (including twice in his rookie year as a 20 year old) and didn't do jack shit!! Mark Martin steps in this year after two years of running a partial schedule and he has won 5 times already with the exact same crew. Ever think that possibly these "world class international drivers" are inferior to American stock car drivers? Or how about Andy Lally? He is one of the best sports car racers out there and he has won many "world class" events like Daytona, Sebring, Neurenburg (sp?). He just MAKES THE FIELD at Watkins Glen for a Sprint Cup race and was damn near in tears saying what an honor it is to race against guys like Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon. Don't give me this "world class" crap. "and....name any nascar champion who started more accidents, or wrecked,more than senior......." Tony Stewart. Kurt Busch. "if wrecking geoff bodine was "totally worth it", then had JPM planted mark martin and won the race, wouldn't that have been totally worth it too????" That was meant as a joke. I can't stand Geoff Bodine. "i loved the way nascar allowed senior to race with head injuries" They let lots of people race with head injuries. Steve Park, Ricky Craven, Dale Jr, and Ernie Irvan. Ernie raced a little over a year after he was all but dead. He had a fractured skull and had to race with AN EYE PATCH!!! And he still finished sixth at tough old North Wilkesboro. Damn he was good. "as for continuing to compare baseball and basketball as if they were the same, while saying stock cars and indy cars are more different......you must have ridden the short bus to school" The chassis are different, the engines are different, the tires are different (in size and compound), the telemetry allowed is different, the weight is different, the CG is different, the wheel base is different, the engine location is different, the aerodynamics are WAY different, the steering reaction is WAY different, the suspension systems are different, the way they shift gears is different, the number of gears they have are different. You cannot take ANYTHING off any type of open wheel car and use it in stock cars. "So Burger King, Domino's, and UPS don't count?" No, because they were replaced. EGR, even with the merger, just keeps shrinking. "But great drivers can learn to adapt to any race car, because they have the right skills that translate from all disciplines." So Sam Hornish Jr isn't a great driver? He has 3 IRL championships, a ton of wins, and an Indy 500 victory. He hasn't adapted, so he must not be a great driver. But when I mentioned the people that have also won at least once since Montoya came to NASCAR you said "How many F1 and CART races have those drivers won?" as if it really meant something. Sam Hornish is obviously a great Indy driver, but sucks ass in stock cars. So you contradicted yourself. 74. redbyron posted: 09.23.2009 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) tony stewart is not close to being as rough as senior...his reputation is pretty clean.....he was SORRY he got into kyle at daytona, and it wasn't even his fault as for kurt, he has gotten dumped more than he has dumped someone else.... again, sr. was talented enough that he didn't HAVE to bump guys out of the way to win, that's what i never understood.....i always got the impression he did that stuff to foster his reputation, and that's a shame... one more try on the different sport deal- in the past 40 years, the ONLY two guys i can recall being successful in 2 sports were bo jackson and deion, there have been enough race car drivers switch series that a reasonable, non biased person could assume that there is a correlation between "being able to do it" in one series and "being able to do it" in another.....sam hornish doesn't suck in nascar, he's better than 18-20 drivers out there now...montoya doesn't suck....allmendinger doesn't suck....mears isn't in the bottom 10 either... your argument doesn't make sense on this level either- none of the top nascar drivers started out driving at this level....jeff gordon drove sprints, won there, and won in nascar..same for stewart, same for kahne..johnson drove off road stuff, came to nascar and won...so, obviously they had "racing" talent, and being "racers" they were able to be successful rather quickly in nascar, so how can you say "nothing carries over".... 75. RR posted: 09.23.2009 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) redbyron gets it. Many of the drivers in Cup have come from outside of stock cars. Tim Richmond did it. So did Kenny Schrader. Bobby Allison ran modifieds. A racer is a racer. "They have a series that does that. It's called Formula 1 and it is boring as shit." That's objective, and I completely disagree. However, I don't see how someone could call F1 boring, yet love a series that has races with 1/4 of the laps under caution (with half of those cautions intended to try to make the race interesting). "So Sam Hornish Jr isn't a great driver? He has 3 IRL championships, a ton of wins, and an Indy 500 victory. He hasn't adapted, so he must not be a great driver. But when I mentioned the people that have also won at least once since Montoya came to NASCAR you said "How many F1 and CART races have those drivers won?" as if it really meant something. Sam Hornish is obviously a great Indy driver, but sucks ass in stock cars. So you contradicted yourself." You completely missed the point. First, I never called Sam a great driver (though he is getting better). Second, you totally ignored JPM stats in other series. JPM has won in other series, the driver you mentioned have not. Those drivers, for the most part, have spent their entire careers driving "stock" cars. JPM has been doing it for less than three years. 76. petty43 posted: 09.23.2009 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) open wheel drivers should all get to compete in thier own little mini nascar so they can all suck together. let the big boys with the skills to win run separate from them. i think we would all like that. people like myself and dsff would not have to watch these dolts take up space, get in the way and keep good young drivers out of the sport. and people who like these open wheels pudwacks could actually get to see them win a race in a stock car!!!!!!!!!! heres a novel idea. win a damn a race, and in my world you become relevant real quick. otherwise go the hell away, whether your background was open wheel, no wheel or two wheels. either a driver can handle cup or he cant. and in my opinion there is not one open wheel driver in the world who could start cup next year in a hendrick and do what jimmie johnson has done since 2002. not one!!!!!!!!!!! JPM has come the closest but right now he compares real close to elliot sadler, jeremy mayfield, and joe nemechek, no where near jeff, jimmie, tony mark or even dale junior. jpm is however better than mikey HA 77. Smokefan05 posted: 09.23.2009 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Um were is Robby Gordon in this? He has won in Indy, Sports cars and Rallys too and off road (i think i may need to mention stats.) So i guess Robby isn't a racer than? Or is he just a talent-less hack? I don't need DSFF answer i already know what he thinks of Robby. 78. Anonymous posted: 09.24.2009 - 11:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stay class, RR. 79. Jackie posted: 09.24.2009 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) How about cry-baby Dale Jr.running down Reutimann on tv. Did he forget about wrecking half the field at Daytona 500 costing Kyle Busch the win and a spot in the chase? 80. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.24.2009 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "tony stewart is not close to being as rough as senior...his reputation is pretty clean....." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Tony wrecks people then admits he did it on purpose because they wouldn't roll over and let him pass. Matt Kenseth (Daytona '06), Denny Hamlin (Daytona '07), Clint Bowyer (Pocono '06 with Carl Edwards), Kyle Busch (attempted at Vegas in '06 but was unsuccessful), Kasey Kahne (Chicago '04), Brian Vickers in '04 (he spun him then punched him after the race), Brian Vickers again (attempted in '08 at Kansas), Martin Truex Jr (Bristol '06), Jeff Gordon (Dover '05), Jeff Gordon (Watkins Glen '00), and he spun Jeff at Bristol in '01 ON PIT ROAD AFTER THE RACE!!! If that is "clean", I'd hate to see your definition of dirty. "sam hornish doesn't suck in nascar" You're kidding right? Sideways Sam? The guy driving the #77 car that finds itself spinning out every other seek? Did you watch the Atlanta race? "allmendinger doesn't suck..." He's not in the Top 25 in points, and only about 36 teams are fully sponosored trying to run the whole schedule. "mears isn't in the bottom 10 either..." Oh wow, he is better than at least 10 drivers. And most of the drivers below him are other open wheel imports (Dinger, Mears, Sideways Sam) that haven't done jack shit. And when you consider the equipment he has driven he has underachieved like hell. "so how can you say "nothing carries over"...." Because nothing carries over. "However, I don't see how someone could call F1 boring, yet love a series that has races with 1/4 of the laps under caution" Um, I don't know, could it be because they can actually race each other and not have to divebomb every corner just to make a pass? Look at the Atlanta race. "Second, you totally ignored JPM stats in other series." I ignored them because his wins in those series DON'T MEAN SHIT IN NASCAR!!! Michael Jordan has some of the best stats ever in the NBA, yet people totally ignored those when he played baseball during his gambling suspension. There is a reason why. "Um were is Robby Gordon in this?" Where he has been his entire career, with his head up his ass. If he ever just focused on one series and quit trying to be a badass and a maverick there is no telling what he could do. He has a TON of talent. But he might be the dumbest person in NASCAR. 81. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.24.2009 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "and people who like these open wheels pudwacks could actually get to see them win a race in a stock car!!!!!!!!!! heres a novel idea. win a damn a race" Ain't that the truth. If somebody like Martin Truex put up similar numbers as JPM over the last 3 years (one win, one cha$e) he would be totally ignored. Oh wait, that actually happened. They all drool over JPM like he's the second coming of Dale Earnhardt, but he has a LONG way to go. "and in my opinion there is not one open wheel driver in the world who could start cup next year in a hendrick and do what jimmie johnson has done since 2002. not one!!!!!!!!!!!" Exactly. "jpm is however better than mikey HA" HAHA! Yep. 82. RR posted: 09.24.2009 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Um were is Robby Gordon in this?" Good driver, but lets his emotions get the best of him WAY too much. He did pretty well in CART his first couple of years. He really shined in Foyt's inferior car, and was very competitive for Walker. But I don't think he ever "got it" in term of keeping his composure (see Cleveland 1995). As for his stock car career, it??s very hard to judge because it has been so disjointed. It's pretty inconclusive. He has shown flashes of brilliance, but he can be his own worst enemy. Wow, I pretty much agree with DSFF on this one. "open wheel drivers should all get to compete in thier own little mini nascar so they can all suck together" Actually, I rather have them run 800hp Indy cars at places like Road America, as opposed to running cabs at Kansas. "and in my opinion there is not one open wheel driver in the world who could start cup next year in a hendrick and do what jimmie johnson has done since 2002. not one!!!!!!!!!!!" Of course not, because they don't have the experience in stock cars yet. Nobody said they could. But, I'll reverse it. How many stock car drivers could do what Michael Schumacher did at Ferrari between the years 1996-2006? I don't think any driver in the world could do it. That's why Schumi was the best, period. "I ignored them because his wins in those series DON'T MEAN SHIT IN NASCAR!!!? I'm talking about racing overall, not just stock cars. I judge drivers based on their entire careers; there's more than NASCAR in the world. That's like saying 'well, Jimmie Johnson won in NASCAR, but he hasn't done anything in F1, so he sucks.' That would be silly, wouldn't it? "You're kidding right? Sideways Sam?" Hornish is improving (and has run near the front in several races). "He's (Allmendinger) not in the Top 25 in points, and only about 36 teams are fully sponosored trying to run the whole schedule" Dinger started with a team that was put together two weeks before the season started, which was outside the top 35, and had little sponsorship. They only planned on running the first five races. Even now, that team has very little sponsorship, and is in the shadows of the organization (if you can call it that). I wouldn't call his team "fully sponsored". Keep in mind, this is only his third year in a stock car. " If somebody like Martin Truex put up similar numbers as JPM over the last 3 years (one win, one cha$e) he would be totally ignored. Oh wait, that actually happened." A. I don't know who is "drooling" over JPM. Most people are focusing on 2009, and not the whole three years. JPM took an inferior car, and made the Chase over a former champion, a driver who won eight races last year and four in 2009, and the entire RCR team. That's pretty good by most standards. B. Before 2007, Truex had one full year in the Cup Series, two in the Busch Series, and several years in the developmental series. Montoya had a handful of stock car starts before 2007. 83. Bronco posted: 09.24.2009 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How about cry-baby Dale Jr.running down Reutimann on tv. Did he forget about wrecking half the field at Daytona 500 costing Kyle Busch the win and a spot in the chase?" My God, are we still talking about the Big One in the Daytona 380? Looks back at the replays. Vickers blocked a much faster car all the way down to the grass (sorta like what he did to Shrub during the Michigan Nationwide race costing them both a win) and in trying to get his car away from the grass. Dale Jr tapped Vickers. What about all the races this year where Shrub screwed himself out of a good finish? He finished a lap down at Texas trying to wreck John Andretti, he wrecked himself trying to block Stewart at Daytona, and he ruined his engine at Chicago. Plus his team was just off at almost all the tracks which the won at last year. 84. petty43 posted: 09.24.2009 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RR. Actually schumis teammate at scuderia could have done just as good if he were made king turd, instead of micheal, this will piss you off but this year's F1 season really changed my thinking, A LOT on Micheal schumaker, sorry i cant spell for shit and really dont care. Anyway as soon as F1 cut ferrari's nuts off a little, a brand new team goes out and dominates the first 6 races with the F1 equivalent of elliot sadler, as driver, (Brawn GP with Jenson button). those things are so aero effective that no one could touch Brawn GP with what they had in their aero package.O thats right the hillbilly shitstain knows a little about F1 too. The following months after that made me think about how unequal things can be in F1, particularly with Michael's career. The only way a driver finishes first or second in every race for a year (but one were he was third), is if his team is at a distinct advantage. He was great but he has lost a little luster in my eyes, as has that whole shitstorm clusterf&$k, of a race series that i called glorified go karting, with military spending budgets. o and 800 hp at any track in indy would be akin to a twister in a trailer park. One big damn mess. damn things probably get airborn in the straights, actually i would pay to see that. 85. redbyron posted: 09.24.2009 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) oh my god, sr fan...... i'm sorry your love for racing passed away at daytona in 01, but the logic you use to defend your position is so twisted, it doesn't deserve responses......so, you respectfully don't reply to mine, and i won't to yours....ok???? peace 86. Talon64 posted: 09.24.2009 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm done too. BTW I'm going to spend my weekend watching the Nationwide and Cup races at Dover, Petit le Mans, the F1 race at Singapore and keeping track of how the NASCAR East and West Series championships turn out. :) 87. Talon64 posted: 09.24.2009 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) double BTW, Hamlin my pick to win the championship. He and Jimmie are the only two guys who can contend for the win at every track in the Chase, especially Martinsville where you'd expect them to finish 1-2 in either order and really separate themselves from the pack. And I just can't believe that Jimmie will make it through the Chase without any bad luck that'll keep him from the title, he's finished in the top 15 in 27 consecutive Chase races and that has to end eventually. 88. RR posted: 09.24.2009 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) petty43, Schumi has proven that, even in an inferior car, he can win. He won for Benetton in 1992 and 1993, when they were third and fourth on the grid. He gave that dog of a Ferrari a couple of victories in 1996. He almost won the championship in 1997, even though the Williams was miles ahead of the Ferrari at that point. Hell, he qualified seventh for his very first Grand Prix at a track he had never seen before, in a mid-pack Jordan no less. Plus, Michael is generally regarded as one of the best wet weather drivers of his era. And, as the saying goes, rain is the ultimate equalizer. He put on brilliant performances in the rain on numerous occasions (Spa 1995, Spain 1996, Monaco 1997, Spa 1997). In the latter race, he was ten seconds a lap faster than any driver. Also, Schumacher is generally regarded as one of the greatest at relaying valuable information back to the team in testing, practice, and the race itself. That, in part, is why he became so dominant at his peak. Schumacher was the rock that the team was built around. F1 changed pretty drastically throughout his career, yet he always remained the driver to beat in F1, even when they implemented rules to try and stop him. As for your general rant on F1, it can apply to any form of motorsport, even your beloved NASCAR. Do you honestly think that Jimmie Johnson would have half the success that he had if he wasn't driving Hendrick car, and did have that team around him? He didn't exactly set the world on fire while he drove in the Busch Series. Last year, three drivers won 2/3 of the races in Cup. Does that mean they are the only three drivers that are worth a damn? Jenson Button isn't the best driver on the grid, but he has done a solid job in a good car. The new regulations have put a lot more emphasis on the driver, and Button kept the car up front for each of his wins. Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, and Raikkonen are the four best drivers in F1, in my opinion. All four of those drivers have had success in inferior cars. Hamilton and Vettel are the best drivers in the rain, while Alonso and Raikkonen are the best in getting the maximum out of their cars. Kimi has won in a subpar Ferrari, while Alonso has drug the one of the worst cars on the grid to some decent finishes. Talent does show in F1; it??s not all car. 89. redbyron posted: 09.24.2009 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) talon64.....just for the hell of it...gimme your top 5 at dover....here are mine 1 johnson 2stewart 3edwards 4reutimann 5biff i'll say JPM finishes 12th 90. RR posted: 09.24.2009 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "o and 800 hp at any track in indy would be akin to a twister in a trailer park" The Cosworth engines that Champ Car used in 2007 made between 725-800 hp. 91. petty43 posted: 09.24.2009 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RR, how many races did michael win just because he was in the number one ferrari? what is your opinion, my conservative guess is 20. i use to agree with all that you said as well, but recently my thoughts towards F1 sucess have been changed. 92. RR posted: 09.24.2009 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No doubt some of his wins have come through being number one. But, then again, all of the greatest drivers in F1 have gotten wins that way. They earn their number #1 status by being great drivers, though, so I don't think their victories are somehow "unearned". Even if you take away 20 wins, he's still number one all time. Again, this same principle applies in all of racing. Top drivers in all forms of racing get better equipment, the best crew, and more money devoted to that particular team. 93. redbyron posted: 09.24.2009 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i would say 20 is a good guess...he never had great teammates though.....verstappen, herbert, irvine, barrichello, massa....the only one who really proved himself anywhere else or without michael was massa, the rest were a mediocre bunch....senna had his share of races he won because he was the numero uno too...they all have, but 15-20 is a safe bet 94. redbyron posted: 09.24.2009 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) btw....he gave away 4 that i remember.3 to barrichello in the interest of harmony....and one to irvine after michael cam back from a broken leg late in the year when irvine was in the title hunt 95. Anonymous posted: 09.25.2009 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "mears isn't in the bottom 10 either..." You could probably make a strong case that he has to be, considering that Mark Martin won five races and maybe even a championship this year with the car Mears only ran to a 20th place finish. I mean, hell, even Michael Waltrip has done better than that in cars no where near as good as the #5. Mears strikes me as a driver who knows how to operate a stock car and make laps around the track without crashing or spinning out, but doesn't really know how to race against other stock cars. 96. Kit posted: 09.25.2009 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Would it be possible to cut down on the F1/CART/IRL vs. NASCAR debate? If you like one or the other, that's fine, but geez, I came on here to discuss NASCAR and this race in particular, not have to scroll down paragraph after paragraph of why one's "better" than the other. I prefer NASCAR but I don't really care or have a problem with someone being a fan of open wheel. I initially came on this site because I could get more in depth with particular drivers, races, etc. in NASCAR. Not get into a broad "x racing is better than y racing" argument. It sucks that I have to listen to the "Sports bike vs. Harley" shit in my motorcycle club and on motorcycle forums all week, and then I come on here and see the same shit. 97. Kit posted: 09.25.2009 - 12:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #95 Anonymous is mine. 98. Kit posted: 09.25.2009 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dale drove aggressively, but he didn't use other cars doors to turn all day with the fastest car in the field." The thing about Dale is that out of 76 wins, probably only 25 of them were due to him being aggressive on the last lap. 99. 18fan posted: 09.25.2009 - 1:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This isn't good or bad, but for whatever reason somebody wrote a letter to NASCAR Illustrated that said Kyle crashed himself out of all three plate races. I don't see how Brian Vickers intentionally blocking Dale Jr.(clearly Vickers fault, one of the differences in the chase play out) counts as Kyle blocking and crashing himself out of the 500(or 380). He did block too much at Talladega and Daytona July. 100. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.25.2009 - 11:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Stremme qualifies well and has a good run going in this race until the inevitable happened... he spun out and finished midpack! I'm glad Stremme is leaving the 12 car after this season; he's a moron and a total mockery of that ride. BTW, I was formerly known as David. 101. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.25.2009 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is something that hasn't been brought up: This race shows what a fluke Joey Logano's "win" at the earlier Loudon race truly was. He finished 21st and wasn't seen all day. 102. Ryan posted: 09.25.2009 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) yep like Schu, Earnhardt was slowed by down by Nascar when they allowed the Ford's to do everything they wanted in '92. Dale was so good they had to handicap him. 103. Talon64 posted: 09.25.2009 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "talon64.....just for the hell of it...gimme your top 5 at dover....here are mine 1 johnson 2stewart 3edwards 4reutimann 5biff i'll say JPM finishes 12th" here's mine, but i've got qualifying to base it on: 1 Johnson 2 Biffle 3 Montoya 4 Mark Martin - keep points lead 5 Newman 104. Smokefan05 posted: 09.25.2009 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kit sadly the "NASCAR vs F1/IRL/CART/eveythingelse" will never go away. Some fans have inflated egos about their favorite series. Reguardless of how the racing is seen by them "the fan." It will always be seen by "the fan" as the best in world. Even the old "my driver is better than your driver" gets outta hand. But don't feel bad, Speedtv.com fourms is one of the WORST places to visit because it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse there than it is here. Even ESPN discussions have that problem, but more so of NASCAR bashers than anything else. 105. Talon64 posted: 09.25.2009 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The SPEED boards are probably among the best racing forums on the internet, a lot of smart people and I don't think it's nearly as bad as you paint it to be. BTW Ryan Truex just clinched the NASCAR East Series championship by finishing 8th at Dover while Eddie MacDonald finished 9th. Brett Moffitt won the race, 2nd career win for the guy who broke Joey Logano's record for youngest winner earlier this season. 106. petty43 posted: 09.25.2009 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) we could argue about this open wheel vs nascar debate until the cows come home and take a shit in our front yards! Nascar has better racing in close quarters and the best american born drivers, open wheel has the the best foreign born drivers and the best cars. take your pick as to which you prefer, great racing or great gadgets, i like elements of both, and honestly "push to pass" might help out nascar racing at some tracks. actually it WOULD HELP. 107. Kit posted: 09.25.2009 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kit sadly the "NASCAR vs F1/IRL/CART/eveythingelse" will never go away. Some fans have inflated egos about their favorite series." You're right, it won't, but I don't care to see it here. I don't mind arguing with people on here regarding NASCAR drivers and races. In fact, I tend to enjoy it. But it's starting to get a little gay when we have this broad-based, "NASCAR vs F1/IRL/CART/eveything else" argument instead. I'd rather just focus on what's going on INSIDE NASCAR. I didn't grow up watching F1/IRL/CART or anything else, so I don't have a preference for those types of racing but I don't care if others do. "a lot of smart people and I don't think it's nearly as bad as you paint it to be." This web site is pretty good itself. Even the guys who tend to spew nonsense, like Bronco, are a lot better than the dipshits over on the ESPN boards. I think this site attracts fans that have more of a history with the sport. ESPN and the like captures the new, bandwagon fans who want to argue over Kyle Busch or what not. I've been watching the sport long enough to not really give a shit about Kyle Busch or whatever the new topic of today is. It doesn't matter that much in the grand scheme of things. "This race shows what a fluke Joey Logano's "win" at the earlier Loudon race truly was. He finished 21st and wasn't seen all day." Very good point. If they were using the same notes from earlier this year, you would have expected a top 15 finish. 108. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.26.2009 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "yep like Schu, Earnhardt was slowed by down by Nascar when they allowed the Ford's to do everything they wanted in '92. Dale was so good they had to handicap him." Actually 1992 was just one of those years where everything went wrong for Dale and Richard. You could see signs of instability over there in 1991 even though they won the championship. That was one of those years that nobody seemed to want to win the Cup. In the second half of the season, when Dale did bad, Rudd did worse. Then it all blew up in 1992. I don't blame NASCAR for that bad season. They just laid an egg that year. 109. Bronco posted: 09.26.2009 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Even the guys who tend to spew nonsense, like Bronco, are a lot better than the dipshits over on the ESPN boards" The only one who spouts senseless drivel is you, Kit. You seem to enjoy worshipping Kasey Kahne and pretty much trashing every other driver out there. You know what they say, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. And one more thing, the only reason anyone brought CART/IRL/sports cars into this discussion was because we feel that Montoya is world class driver since has he has tasted success in those stories. I for one still think NASCAR is the best form of motorsport as a whole, but I do appreciate other racing series for what they are. 110. Kit posted: 09.26.2009 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, you sound like a kid who just lost at marbles. The majority of the drivers I have the most respect for have retired, so no, I don't bash every other driver except for Kahne. Hell, I started paying more attention to Kahne this year. He can overcome the problems with his team without whining, something Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, Dale Jr., etc. cannot do. I don't really see it as a crime to support Kahne in that regard. Of course I'm going to say something when the sport used to be dominated by real men 15 to 20 years ago like Gant, Rudd, Earnhardt, Elliott, etc. to today with crybabies like Busch, Stewart, Harvick, etc. "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." This is a discussion board, I can say whatever the f**k I want. "And one more thing, the only reason anyone brought CART/IRL/sports cars into this discussion was because we feel that Montoya is world class driver since has he has tasted success in those stories." Who the f**k cares whether you feel that Montoya is a "world class" driver? This is NASCAR. This is not CART, this is not IRL, this is not F1, this is not pinewood derby. I don't give a flying shit what Montoya has done in other series. I don't watch those other series. Quit trying to make Montoya's NASCAR success sound greater than it is because of what he's done in other series. He is a driver with one win and one good season comparable to an average Greg Biffle season. This goes back to the "NASCAR vs. whatever" debate. I don't care about what Montoya has done in a series I do not pay much attention to. IRL wins =/= NASCAR wins. You sound like the type of guy who will pick baseball players in his football fantasy draft because they have good batting averages. 111. Bronco posted: 09.26.2009 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Of course I'm going to say something when the sport used to be dominated by real men 15 to 20 years ago like Gant, Rudd, Earnhardt, Elliott, etc. to today with crybabies like Busch, Stewart, Harvick, etc." Well get the f**k over it then. Your "real men" have been out of the sport for quite some time now, and Busch, Stewart and Harvick are here to stay, like it or leave it. If you don't like those three, I'm sure you can find someone else to root for. "Who the f**k cares whether you feel that Montoya is a "world class" driver?" I certainly do, and judging by some of the other comments around here others do as well. For a driver to be successful in several different racing series says a lot about his talent. 112. BKBroila88 posted: 09.27.2009 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) seems like no one mentioned that Ambrose intentionally dumped Allmendinger. Ambrose continuing to show his true colors... 113. Kit posted: 10.04.2009 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well get the f**k over it then. Your "real men" have been out of the sport for quite some time now, and Busch, Stewart and Harvick are here to stay, like it or leave it. If you don't like those three, I'm sure you can find someone else to root for." No shit I found someone to root for. Haven't you seen my praise for Kasey Kahne? Hell, you gave me shit for it above. So I don't get your argument at all. Once again, you just seem to be throwing a fit just to throw one. I enjoy pointing out that Busch, Stewart, and Harvick are little boys compared to drivers of past, so why would I need to get over something I enjoy doing? "I certainly do, and judging by some of the other comments around here others do as well." I don't care what you think about JPM in international races. This is a NASCAR board. "For a driver to be successful in several different racing series says a lot about his talent." Once again, I don't care what you think about how JPM has done in other series, this is a NASCAR board. 114. RR posted: 10.07.2009 - 12:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "seems like no one mentioned that Ambrose intentionally dumped Allmendinger. Ambrose continuing to show his true colors... " I just read this, and I don't get it. When has Marcos show his "true colors" before? What does that even mean? He's was called the devil racer in Australia before he even stepped foot in NASCAR. Are you saying he's a dirty driver, even though he's shown total respect to the veteran drivers over his NASCAR career? 115. Anonymous posted: 05.02.2011 - 3:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) 1. DaleJrFan18 posted: 09.20.09 - 7:28 pm What an anticlimactic finish, it was looking good until Montoya got loose off of turn two and began to fight with Hamlin. Still Mark won so I cant be too mad. What I can be mad about is Jr getting screwed out of a good finish once again! It just sickens me how well he does and then poof! It's all taken away. Yeah, I'm blaming David for the wreck I don't care what you guys say. It's frustrating as hell for us Jr fans to deal with shit like this week in and week out. cry cry cry.......................... 116. Talon64 posted: 06.02.2011 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin's most recent Cup win to date. Could go down as the last of his 40 career wins. 117. CBASS posted: 02.04.2013 - 7:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates #82 Red Bull Cola #16 Scotch #43 McCafe #42 Target/ Polaroid #12 Penske #71 SBLI http://archives.ciastockphoto.com/cgi/images.php?group=w0931 118. LASTCAR posted: 04.24.2013 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Raines picked up the 6th last-place finish of his career in Sunday's Sylvania 300 at the New Hampshire Motor Speedway when his #37 Long John Silver's Dodge fell out with overheating problems after completing 8 of the race's 300 laps. Raines qualified 36th with a speed of 129.900 mph, but an engine change forced him to start Sunday's race in the 43rd and final starting spot. During the opening green-flag run, he remained at the back, then pulled behind the wall on lap 8 with an overheating problem ending his day. 15 laps later, last-place leader Dave Blaney went behind the wall and finished 42nd, ending his streak of three consecutive last-place finishes. It was the first last-place finish for Tony Raines since June's Lifelock 400 at Michigan. The #37 team now has three last-place finishes in 2009, but only two of them came with Raines: road racer Tony Ave finished last in this car in last month's Heluva Good! at the Glen. Raines' third last-place finish came in owner Barry Haefele's #73 back at April's Subway Fresh Fit 500 at Phoenix. The #37 has just one other last-place finish at New Hampshire: John Andretti finished last when he crashed his Michael Kranefuss-owned Kmart / Little Caesar's Ford in the 1996 Jiffy Lube 300. 2009 RANKINGS 1st) Dave Blaney (8) 2nd) Tony Raines (3) 3rd) Mike Bliss, Patrick Carpentier, David Gilliland, Joe Nemechek (2) 4th) Tony Ave, Todd Bodine, P.J. Jones, Matt Kenseth, Bobby Labonte, Joey Logano, Mark Martin, Mike Wallace (1) Visit http://brockbeard.blogspot.com/ for more. 119. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.09.2013 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most likely Mark Martin's final career Cup win, as it's all but official that he's retiring after the 2013 season. Happy to say I remember this race quite well. 120. Edwards99 posted: 12.30.2013 - 7:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was at this race. Nothing against Mark Martin (he's probably my favorite driver of the 90's) but I am glad he hasn't won since this race because I can say I was in the attendance of his final race! 121. Evan posted: 06.20.2014 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) * Mark Martin's final Cup Series win. * This probably was the best shot that Juan Montoya had at winning at an oval, along with the Brickyard 400 which he dominated only to have a speeding penalty kill his good day. On this day though, he won the pole and had an excellent car which handled great. I think he could have won this one, but he was a tad too agressive at the end and used up his stuff. * This was the race that Kurt Busch tagged David Ragan in the pits and threw a very huge temper-tantrum. Not caught during the race, it was captured during NASCAR news segments. 122. someone posted: 08.17.2014 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 120: I think you mean his final win. 123. murb posted: 07.26.2016 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I watched this last night and it was actually kind of a great race. Definitely WAY better than I remembered it being. Lots of fun battles at the front with Hamlin/Montoya/Kurt (I really forgot how fun this 2009 Chase stretch was with Montoya - he was driving like a madman every week), and then Mark kind of just came out of nowhere in the last 100 laps and took off. 124. Braindead Zombie posted: 07.26.2016 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I really forgot how fun this 2009 Chase stretch was with Montoya - he was driving like a madman every week" I know, it was like he was a completely different driver just for those first four or five races of the chase that year. Then it all just kinda fell apart. 125. chevyfan98 posted: 08.03.2016 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This was the race where Kurt Busch had his famous radio outburst, right? 126. LW97 posted: 12.27.2020 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looking back, it is really sad that this was Mark's final win. His four wins would mean that he was leading entering the chase under that time's format, and this victory would even add to it. At this time we thought at the age of Mark would finally clinch the cup, but sadly, fate had other plans. 127. JSPorts posted: 12.28.2020 - 7:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was one of the best NH races of the COT era, for sure. I remember at the time, I was sure this wouldn't be Mark's last win, and that maybe he could finally win the title. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: