|| *Comments on the 2009 Pepsi 500:* View the most recent comment <#102> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Mike posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yet ANOTHER 2nd for Jeff Gordon. This is what the 8th time he's finished 2nd this year? Amazing. Dale Jr had yet another great run going only to be ruined by Elliott Sadler. Pretty much sums up his year. It looks like Jimmie will win the championship unless he crashes. Hopefully Jeff can make a run but I don't see it happening. 2. DaleJrFan18 posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, I could give two shits what you people think but I'm pissed right now. Elliot Sadler makes me sick. Way to not only take out my favorite driver, thus continuing his streak of bad luck, but also taking out yourself and a bunch of drivers including a chaser. Congrats! I can also put the blame on the retarded officials who had to be like "LETS PUT OUT A PHANTOM YELLOW FOR A 10 LAP SPRINT AND BOOST THE RATINGS!" and instead, it causes two cautions in the final 10 laps. Way to go N@$$CAR officials! And because of all those bunch ups, Jimmie Johnson was able to win the race and pretty much set himself up for another sham of a championship. I was going for Gordon at the end but NASCAR denied that. My two cents... 3. DaleJrFan18 posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Correction, two chase contenders 4. calegale posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Dale Jr has been running well lately, it seems like bad luck is the only thing holding him back from getting good finishes now. Great run for David Ragan getting only his second top 10 finish of 2009. His only other top 10 was the Daytona 500. RCR had cars finishing 9th, 10th, and 11th and Burton was at least a top 20 car until getting involved in the last wrecks. Stremme, Waltrip, and Andretti get top 20 finishes which is a decent day for them. David Gilliland start and parked the #71 car after 11 laps then took over for Kyle Busch in the #18 during the first caution at lap 61. David Reutimann qualified second but had his time disallowed after the rear shock was determined to have a gas level too high and had to start 42nd. 5. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Horrible race at a horrible racetrack. They changed the date again for California again and still only got about half capacity. That's about 45,000 fans in an area with about 5,000,000 residents. They got that many people at the races at North Wilkesboro. You know what's close to North Wilkesboro? Nothing. QUIT GOING TO THIS FREAKING TRACK!!!! Kudos to Kasey Kahne for calling NASCAR out publically for these bullshit debris cautions. Kurt got loose and lost it like he always does, but Kasey was there so that little son of a bitch finished 8th. Tony got luckier than hell TWICE in this race. Diva Hamlin takes himself out in a really stupid move. At least he manned up to it. I guess that is somewhat of a step forward. But he really had no defense for that. Elliott Sadler must be a pretty unpopular guy right now. After all, Jr was having a "great run" by running 8th all day (while his 3 teammates were in the Top 4 all day). Can we go ahead and give Jr the 2010 championship trophy now? 6. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While Elliott Sadler is pretty much a no-talent hack and constantly displays it (the guy had to get into Yates cars at their peak to be successful and when Yates started going down we haven't heard of him since), I was waiting for something to happen to Dale Jr. Bad races are pretty much the story of his season, despite that every other car tied with Hendrick has been in contention all year (even the #09 with the Talladega win). 7. Dion posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Funny little fact...RPM has had 1 DNF between all of the drivers before this race and that was 2 weeks ago when Kahne blew an engine...in this race ALL 4 drivers crashed out on the same lap 8. Mike posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Elliott Sadler must be a pretty unpopular guy right now. After all, Jr was having a "great run" by running 8th all day (while his 3 teammates were in the Top 4 all day). Can we go ahead and give Jr the 2010 championship trophy now?" No one is saying Jr will win the title next year. It is getting frustrating for us Jr fans because he is running better than he has all year yet the results don't show for it. 9. Bronco posted: 10.11.2009 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two drivers pulled really dumb moves in this race. 1. Denny Hamlin. What the hell was he thinking trying to cut off JPM like that? He restarted the race as the leader and chose the outside line, then he decides to block JPM on the inside? He cost himself and his team a ton of points with that move. 2. Elliott Sadler. Where do I begin with this one. He turns Dale Jr down the fronstretch, and wrecks all 4 of his teammates!!! This was the same team that didn't have a DNF until Kahne lost the engine at New Hampshire. If I were Elliott I'd be looking at some "Help Wanted" ads. I loved what Kasey Kahne said in his interview, because it was true. He basically called out NASCAR for their invisibris cautions which led to him getting swallowed up in that wreck. Say what you want about IRL, but at least they don't manufacture excitement with this fake shit. And I hate to start another Dale Jr rant but I'm honestly disgusted to see him and his team getting screwed over week in and week out. 3 out of the last 4 weeks he hasn't even been able to finish on the lead lap because of all this shit that happens thats out of his control. He should have had top 10s at New Hampshire, Kansas and this race if people would stop wrecking and oil pumps worked like were supposed to. Good runs for Hornish, Waltrip, Stremme and especially Andretti in the underfunded #34. And speaking of good runs, JPM records his 4th straight top 5. I really hope he wins before the year is over, his best chances are at Charlotte, Texas and Homestead. His team has been great on intermediate tracks. 10. DaleJrFan18 posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Elliott Sadler must be a pretty unpopular guy right now. After all, Jr was having a "great run" by running 8th all day (while his 3 teammates were in the Top 4 all day). Can we go ahead and give Jr the 2010 championship trophy now?" I could care less if he wins now, I just want him to actually finish the race in a good spot instead of having that chance taken away by a stupid move. But of course, you being the dick would think that all Jr fans think he deserved to win the race. By no means do I think he deserved to win the race, it was all Jimmie and Montoya today. I think if he hadn't wrecked he would have gotten a top ten finish easilly. "No one is saying Jr will win the title next year. It is getting frustrating for us Jr fans because he is running better than he has all year yet the results don't show for it." SPOT ON! That's exactly how I feel. Respect earned. 11. 34 Houston JA fan. posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm a big John Andretti fan. It's been a long time since he's been in good equipment with an owner that has a budget. However, FRM and Mr. Jenkins are doing a great job on shoe string budget. Car handled great today for first half of race, then went totally away when sun came out. FRM really hasn't had the motors to compete, but motor had issue nothing that money couldn't solve. for the last 80 to 100 laps John A. only had 4th gear, and team still finished 19th on lead lap. Hat's off to team. FRM is really a great team if you think about it. They just need good sponsorship. Mr. Jenkins is basicly self financing FRM's operation. 12. Kevin posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The driver you need to watch out for is Montoya. 5 top 5 finishes in the last 6 races, he is a stud!!! 13. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I hate to start another Dale Jr rant but I'm honestly disgusted to see him and his team getting screwed over week in and week out. 3 out of the last 4 weeks he hasn't even been able to finish on the lead lap because of all this shit that happens thats out of his control." That's the shit that happens in the middle of the pack. If he were running up front where his teammates run, he'd avoid all that. "If I were Elliott I'd be looking at some "Help Wanted" ads." Now do you see what I was saying at the beginning of the year about Elliott and his lawsuit? I predicted a disaster and it happened. 14. DaleJrFan18 posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's the shit that happens in the middle of the pack. If he were running up front where his teammates run, he'd avoid all that." Smartass, he pitted when he was in 9th under the 3rd to last caution. Had he not done so, he would have been ahead of the wreck. He was flying through the field when the wreck happened, going from about 15th to 11th within the handful of laps he was given due to the cautions that came out.And by the way, 11th-15th is not mid-pack buddy. 15. Mike posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's the shit that happens in the middle of the pack. If he were running up front where his teammates run, he'd avoid all that." Dale Jr was in the middle of the pack because he pitted so he could get 4 fresh tires and drive to the front to have a better shot at getting a better finish than 8th place. That's the kind of determination you've been looking for from Dale Jr and the 88 team, right? 16. Anonymous posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Elliott Sadler has been a joke for several years as race car driver, he has caused wrecks before getting into Dale Jr. . Sadler should know better than bump draft at cookie cutter track a first place. He only is in cup nowdays is the fact he is great at marketing like Micheal Waltrip. Denny Hamlin proves why he can't win a championship in cup. He made a rookie mistake on the track and got lucky that not a lot of drivers got into that wreck unlike the crash Sadler caused. Kasey Khane was correct about calling out Nascar about the "Fake debris"caution. I had been see that to much lately on Nascar. Micheal Waltrip gets his best finish since the 1st Pocono race this year. That is pathetic and this hack of driver wants to race full time in the Nationwide series next year. I hope no one will sponsor him. Jimmie Johnson is on his way of being a champion again this year. 17. Bronco posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's the shit that happens in the middle of the pack. If he were running up front where his teammates run, he'd avoid all that." Bullcrap. He was running 4th at New Hampshire when Reutimann put him in the wall. Last week he was well ahead of his teammates when the lugnut issue happened and the subsequent engine problem. He just doesn't have any luck, doesn't matter whether he's at the front, the middle or the back. It's like Mark Martin once said, "There's no safe place on the racetrack". 18. 18fan posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was at this race, and the Denny Hamlin wreck happened right in front of me. He had no business blocking. Montoya had by far the best car when their were clouds, then Jimmie dominated when the sun was out. I am getting pissed off about Jimmie being so much faster than his teammates. Jeff, Mark, and Tony all finished in the top five and Jimmie was considerably faster than all of those guys. Kyle once again got out of his car and handed it over to David Gilliland, who parked his car so he could do that. However, I believe he would've parked anyways. The car seemed to go to crap once David got in the car. Not once on a debris caution did a single safety truck go out for pickup. Once again I noticed this being at the race. 19. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Elliott Sadler has been a joke for several years as race car driver, he has caused wrecks before getting into Dale Jr. . Sadler should know better than bump draft at cookie cutter track a first place. He only is in cup nowdays is the fact he is great at marketing like Micheal Waltrip." Yep. Elliott Sadler is a never-was, and the only reason he even has a ride this season is because good lawyers and sponsors were on his side. I will say he's slightly better than Waltrip because he was able to get 3 wins before he hit 462 starts, and they were all at non-plate tracks, unlike all of Waltrip's wins. The bottom line is, they're both two of the worst drivers in NASCAR right now. "Denny Hamlin proves why he can't win a championship in cup. He made a rookie mistake on the track and got lucky that not a lot of drivers got into that wreck unlike the crash Sadler caused." Yeah, and the sad part is that it doesn't surprise me one bit. Denny has quite a history of making stupid moves like that over the past couple of years, but I will give him credit for revealing a glimpse of the 2006 version of himself. I don't expect it to last, though. Everyone was saying he had matured all season, and then he went after Brad again. 20. 18fan posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to mention that I listened to the MRN broadcast of this race and they are about 50 times better than ESPN. They don't have Chaser bias and actually give updates on pit road of how guys that are running bad are doing. You would never hear an update on what John Andretti was saying about his racecar on ESPN. 21. Neal posted: 10.11.2009 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF - Your population stats are a bit off. There are 20,000,000 people within 2 hours of Fontana. I think NASCAR needs to cut the track back to one date and if they can't sell one date out, fold up the tent stakes and move on. That was their rationale for killing off Rockingham. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. 22. The Zeusian posted: 10.12.2009 - 12:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kudos to Kasey Kahne for calling NASCAR out publically for these bullshit debris cautions." You hit the nail on the head right there, DaleSrFanForever. I really would like to see a race ends under green via an 80 lap shootout to the finish but the 'fans' wants a wild finish they'll keep throwing those mystery/invisible debris cautions until their ratings goes down. As for Elliott Sadler, I say mission accomplished of taking out all his teammates in one lap & Jr. who can't catch a break all season long. In two weeks, Jr. will be leading the pack at Tally. 23. bduddy posted: 10.12.2009 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Indycar finale was way, way more exciting then this POS without any cautions, BS or otherwise. Relief drivers: Car #18: David Gilliland (187 laps) 24. Kit posted: 10.12.2009 - 3:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No one is saying Jr will win the title next year. It is getting frustrating for us Jr fans because he is running better than he has all year yet the results don't show for it." Yet he's running worse career wise for a guy who used to win six races in a year and was a threat for the championship. 25. John Royal posted: 10.12.2009 - 7:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have lost my faith. Racing was moderate, but several phantom cautions were enough for me. I don't want to see such crappy races ever again. 26. ii posted: 10.12.2009 - 7:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) bduddy, didn't the IndyCar race have no cautions? 27. jr88fan posted: 10.12.2009 - 9:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1. Mike posted: 10.11.09 - 9:27 pm Yet ANOTHER 2nd for Jeff Gordon. This is what the 8th time he's finished 2nd this year? Amazing. Dale Jr had yet another great run going only to be ruined by Elliott Sadler. Pretty much sums up his year. It looks like Jimmie will win the championship unless he crashes. Hopefully Jeff can make a run but I don't see it happening that does sum up jr's year. :{ 28. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.12.2009 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's the kind of determination you've been looking for from Dale Jr and the 88 team, right?" I have never ever questioned the #88 team, cars, engines, pit crew, or crew chiefs. I just question what they put between the seat and the steering wheel. Yes the pit crew made a mistake at Kansas by leaving a lug nut off. But just about every pit crew has done that at least once this year. The #48 crew probably cost Jimmie the Bristol Night race by doing that. And Chad's rare bad strategy call at Kansas probably cost him that race. Yet he's still leading the points. If you're good enough (or focused enough), mistakes like that can be overcome through the course of a 36 race season. But nobody can deny that he is usually running well behind his other 3 teammates. I don't know what the deal is, but Dale Jr has just flat out lost it. I don't know exactly what "it" is, but he is a very talented driver in really good equipment running like a mid packer. "He just doesn't have any luck" Or speed. 3 wins in 5 years. "Elliott Sadler has been a joke for several years as race car driver, he has caused wrecks before getting into Dale Jr. . Sadler should know better than bump draft at cookie cutter track a first place. He only is in cup nowdays is the fact he is great at marketing like Micheal Waltrip." There is a good parallel between those two. They keep their rides by sucking up to sponsors and getting on TV as much as possible and basically being attention whores. And once again I'll say it to those who defended Elliott during his lawsuit: I told ya so! "but I will give him credit for revealing a glimpse of the 2006 version of himself. I don't expect it to last, though. Everyone was saying he had matured all season, and then he went after Brad again." Exactly. His focus is on Brad K more than anything, and he isn't even racing full time yet. And he is mad at him for not just rolling over for him. He just keeps regressing in maturity. Good thing his teammate is Kyle Busch. It makes Denny look a little better by comparison. "DSFF - Your population stats are a bit off. There are 20,000,000 people within 2 hours of Fontana." Thanks Neal. I know it was a whole lot, but I didn't realize it was that many. And they can only get 45,000 people there. What a frigging joke. They got more than that at North Wilkesboro, a little track in the middle of the mountains with only a two lane road leading to it. 29. redbyron posted: 10.12.2009 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) hey guys..... i agree that fontana puts on the worst races on the circuit, but it must be the COT that causes it, because the nationwide race on saturday was awesome....as far as johnson, i can't stand him, but that team is freaking amazing, how they do this every year is freaking amazing, because i really don't consider johnson one of the top 5 drivers in terms of pure ability....stewart had one of the most undeserving top 5 runs you will ever see, he ran like 14th all day and got lucky nascar saw some phantom debris, or he would have been 2 laps down, amazing that cautions always fly when a hendrick car needs one....the only difference between vince mcmahon and brian france is that vince at least TELLS you up front that his product is scripted!!!!! i don't like kasey that much, but i respect him for speaking up, this has become ridiculous every week....we will never see another caution free race, ever, they wont let it happen.....JPM{my favorite} had a great day, but unless mark and jj have trouble at dega, this is over....hamlin did the exact same thing yesterday that kyle did to stewart in the july daytona race, came right across montoya's bumper, it must be a gibbs thing.... 30. Elias posted: 10.12.2009 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson's 45th career win, breaking a tie between he and Bill Elliott for second on the most wins by an active driver list. 31. Mike posted: 10.12.2009 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't know exactly what "it" is, but he is a very talented driver in really good equipment running like a mid packer." He is very talented so there's no excuse for him to be running as bad as he is. 32. CarlEdwards99 posted: 10.12.2009 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie Johnson was able to win the race and pretty much set himself up for another sham of a championship." the debris caution is a joke and so is the chase, but to say JJ championships are a shame is unfair. They are playing the system that is giving to them and are playing it hands down better than anyone else with that said, the 5 and 42 are not that far off and if either one just catches a couple breaks or the 48 get a couple of bad breaks OR has just one wreck or part failure, the 5 and 42 are good enough to make the 48 guys pay. 33. Spen posted: 10.13.2009 - 5:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trust me on this, Johnson's got it won. Comes chase time, the 48 doesn't get bad breaks, period. I wouldn't be at all suprised if they win the championship next year, the year after, and the year after that. 34. John Royal posted: 10.13.2009 - 5:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, I agree. Johnson's triumph seems to parallel to what has happened in other major racing series in this millenium: F1 - Schumacher, WRC - Loeb, CART - Bourdais (we can debate on this but lets not). I really don't know why this all has happened, seems that it is just pure coincidence. 35. DaleJrFan18 posted: 10.13.2009 - 8:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the debris caution is a joke and so is the chase, but to say JJ championships are a shame is unfair." Theres a difference between shame and sham. And yes it is a sham of a championship, see the next reply. "They are playing the system that is giving to them and are playing it hands down better than anyone else" Yeah, and that's cheap. Why can't they just go back to the normal system where Tony would be winning -_- sure he'd be leading by alot but it's better than setting everyone back to normal when they should have to work their way past him in the points. "with that said, the 5 and 42 are not that far off and if either one just catches a couple breaks or the 48 get a couple of bad breaks OR has just one wreck or part failure, the 5 and 42 are good enough to make the 48 guys pay." We can only hope that...only time will tell. 36. DaleJrFan18 posted: 10.13.2009 - 8:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) May I also add in the old system, JJ would only have one deserved championship? 37. Kit posted: 10.13.2009 - 11:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I really don't know why this all has happened, seems that it is just pure coincidence." Because the Chase system is that screwed up. As good as the #48 and Johnson are, I'd like to see them do the same thing under the old points system. More than likely, they wouldn't be able to. With the old points system, you had to be on top of your game the entire year. Now, Johnson and the #48 have the system figured out as to when to be their best. I don't compare Johnson to Cale Yarborough because the latter won under an entire different points system. Not saying that they aren't good, but I just don't think the chase championship has the same connotation as the traditional points system championship. Also, another thing, do you notice how everyone's win column is inflated nowadays compared to 20 years ago? Take Kevin Harvick: he has almost half as many wins as Ricky Rudd. But there's no way in hell Harvick is half as good as Rudd. I kind of suspect that driver ability doesn't play as large as a role anymore as does having the best car on the track for a particular race. I mean, compare Jimmie Johnson's wins to Dale Earnhardt. To me, it seems like Dale Earnhardt grinded more of his wins. Johnson won a lot because the #48 had the best car and equipment on the track. Johnson's a great driver but I'd imagine that any of the decent drivers in Cup would still have 30+ wins if they were in his car. 38. John Royal posted: 10.13.2009 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes it is clear that Johnson is dominant because of great car and team behind him. Biggest problem is that NASCAR schedule has become repetitive, it consists mostly cookie-cutter halfmilers - a track type where #48 team has cleverly built its dominance. Back in days there were LOTS of variety in schedule and only really good drivers could become dominant because they were able to master all sorts of different tracks. Also cars have became very reliable, and again #48 seems to be top of that too. When was the last time #48 DNFed because of mechanical failure? Racing is so competetive now and especially with chase you need only one bad day and you are out of the game. #48 doesn't have bad finishes when everybody else does. We are just waiting bad day to happen to Martin and Montoya, then Johnson can be finally declared champion. I try to point out things of how you make a multiple champion out of a average driver when EVERYTHING in the team is top notch together with top luck. I am personally so fed up with the #48 and Hendrick show. They have mastered the game, and now the game is over. 39. Anonymous posted: 10.13.2009 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The other factor with Jimmie Johnson being great in the chase besides Cookie Cutter tracks is Martinsville. Jimmie is one of the greatest Martinsville drivers of all time. Jimmie has 5 wins in his last 6 races at Martinsville. Jimmie at Martinsville right now is like Darrell Waltrip was at Bristol from 1981 to 1984. The only way to make the race schedule more challenging for Jimmie Johnson. I got some race tracks in mind that would do the trick. 40. redbyron posted: 10.13.2009 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the big difference in today's nascar is that the driver is about 50 percent of the equation....then it's 10% pit crew and 40% car....in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, the driver was 75-80% of the equation....thats sad, because there is no way johnson is cale's equal as a driver....win totals are inflated, because there are so many more races, and that garbage the media states about "anybody can win on any given sunday" is asinine.....there are 8-10 cars that have an honest chance of winning with the exception of talladega, which is a crapshoot....AND, the deal with stewart and hendrick sucks 41. Kit posted: 10.13.2009 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those are some excellent points, John. In a seven year span, Jimmie Johnson now has more wins than Bill Elliott. I don't see Johnson that dominant with driving ability. Like you said, they are able to play the repetitive tracks to their advantage and now the sport consists of only a few dominant teams and a bunch of fringe teams. I think Johnson can attribute more of his success at being lucky to be inside the #48 more than anything. I agree with you entirely, redbyron. Hell, what's the point of NASCAR having a four-team limit if the teams are still able to share assets with others? This hasn't hurt Hendrick at all, but rather drivers like Jamie McMurray. 42. Smokefan05 posted: 10.13.2009 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only way i see JPM and Mark catching JJ and crew is if Chad Knaus screws up. And when it comes fuel mileage races, it is there greatest weakness. Out of all the fuel mileage races that i can remember, JJ has only won 1, it was Phonix last year. It's the only REAL weakness that team has. "I try to point out things of how you make a multiple champion out of a average driver when EVERYTHING in the team is top notch together with top luck." Jimmie was an average Nationwide driver, but once in Cup, well the rest is history. I agree you can take a C rate driver and put him in A rate equipment and he can do anything. And i agree with Kit, you can put a decent Cup driver in JJ's car and he do what Jimmie is doing. 43. Bronco posted: 10.13.2009 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As good as the #48 and Johnson are, I'd like to see them do the same thing under the old points system. More than likely, they wouldn't be able to. With the old points system, you had to be on top of your game the entire year." Exactly, and that is why as far I'm concerned the old points system is the only one that truly matters. Its ridiculous how teams that are high up in points use some races as test sessions to get ready for the cha$e. And it's even dumber how drivers that clinch a spot in the cha$e before Richmond have 2 or 3 races with "nothing to lose." That's bullshit, every race should count towards a championship, no one should get a free pass. That is what happened in 2004, Chad experimented with the engines during the summer resulting in 3 straight engine DNFs for Jimmie, but it didnt matter since he was leading the points at that time. And the tracks that are a part of the cha$e are a damn joke as well. If NASCAR is going to use a mere 10 races to determine the champion of their sport, then instead of cutting off the last 10 races they should make it an even mix of road courses, short tracks, intermediates and superspeedways. And the fact that the schedule keeps changing is also dumb, as it changes the criteria to be a champion. 44. Talon64 posted: 10.13.2009 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie wasn't that great in Nationwide because his equipment wasn't that great. It was Jeff Gordon who got Jimmie his ride at HMS and now they're both the best drivers of the last 15 years. Jimmie's top 15 streak in Chase races is up to 30. Over that stretch he's had 10 wins, 20 top fives, 26 top tens, 2123 laps led (about a 5th of the laps run) and has an average finish of 4.6. The circumstances might've been some more NASCAR BS but I'm still amazed Tony got a top five out of that race. I thought his championship hopes were done for after he got the pit road speeding penalty was was 30th a lap down but he got some major luck and capitalized on it. I'm not complaining, I want to see Tony win the championship to tie Jimmie for most championships this decade. Tony's already the only driver to win the championship in both formats and he'd have championships with two different organizations if he won it this year. 45. Anonymous posted: 10.13.2009 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While I agree that it is more car than driver now, win totals have been inflated from 1955 to 1971 from a driver's standpoint. During that time period, there was anywhere from 44 races a year to 62 races in a year. That is more races than Nascar runs now. My point is inflated win totals isn't something new with drivers. The inflated amount of wins come from race organizations, not the drivers. Take a look Hendrick Motorsports for an example. Rick has 4 races and has satellite teams. Stewart Haas Racing is a satellite team, but it is really a loophole to get around the 4 car rule for a race organization. Even without counting the satellite teams, wins for full-time multi-car teams have inflated for several years. 46. Anonymous posted: 10.13.2009 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Inflated win numbers for race organizations are already starting to make voters for the Nascar Hall fame think if full-time multi car owners should be nominated yet. Rick Hendrick is one the 25 people on the Nascar Hall of Fame Ballot for the 2010 class. The voters have to think for tomorrow, October 14, 2009 if Rick Hendrick should get as owner over the following owners that are on the ballot: Junior Johnson, Glen Wood, Bud Moore, Richard Childress, Lee Petty (founder of Petty Enterprises, and Richard Petty. Junior Johnson did a multi car team, but Junior Johnson got most of his wins before being a mult-car owner. 47. Anonymous posted: 10.13.2009 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to mention that If I were a voter, I would consider the single car team owners first to be inducted into the Nascar Hall of Fame. 48. Talon64 posted: 10.13.2009 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junior Johnson is already a favorite to be in the inaugaural HoF class. Rick Hendrick will get in there eventually but the first vote should be for the biggest figures in NASCAR history and then after that it should start from the beginning and induct NASCAR's older and historical figures. 49. redbyron posted: 10.13.2009 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the real problem is that there is no BIG BILL france in nascar anymore.....nascar, with the france kids and puppet mike helton are so afraid of team owners like hendrick, roush, gibbs, etc....nascar was better run when it was a dictatorship....honestly, i think a 4 car limit is too much....every owner should have a max of 2, like in F1, and F1 enforces that limit because they have a dictator in charge....if they can find sponsors, that freaking stewart-haas-hendrick team will have 4 cars of its own soon, so in effect, rick will have 8 cars, i mean why bother showing up????? a joke, which is why, i will say again, i respect the job montoya is doing with less a LOT more than i will respect any of the hendrick guys for winning the title.... 50. 18fan posted: 10.13.2009 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Besides Martinsville and two wins at Darlington, Jimmie hasn't won at the drivers tracks with the exception of Dover. He was always horrible at Rockingham, he can't win at Bristol, he has zero road course wins. Richard Childress was a one car team in 1996 and Dale was still a threat for the championship. Rick Hendrick would be nowhere if he didn't get lucky with his gamble on Jeff Gordon. Jimmie is only good at Martinsville because it should be renamed Hendricksville because Jeff Gordon found a setup and all the teams use it. I think Ernie Irvan, Geoff Bodine, and Harry Gant were all much better drivers than Jimmie. If you switched him with AJ Allmendinger the 48 would run much better than the 44 every week even with Jimmie in the 44. Some people will say Jimmie is better than Bill Elliott because JJ has more wins and championships. Bill is easily better than Jimmie and would still out perform Jimmie if Bill was in the 48. Jimmie Johnson is 60% car, 30% Chad, and 10% driver. 51. Anonymous posted: 10.13.2009 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree there should a 2 car limit for teams in Nascar. The only reason why Gibbs, RCR, and Richard Petty Motorsports has more than 2 teams is the fact they don't want to fall behind Roush and Hendrick. You can't blame Mike Helton completely on the 3 or 4 car teams. It happened before Mike took some of Bill France Jr's duties away. The only thing you can blame Mike and Brian France with the multi-car teams is not going far enough with the amount of cars a team can have and Mike not doing nothing about before Brian took over for his dad. Nascar got sick of Roush having 5 teams, the catch is they are protecting Rick and that is why they didn't go down to 2 teams. Bill France Jr. should do something about around 1984 or 1985 since Junior Johnson owned 2 teams at the time. Hendrick was responsible for 3 or 4 teams in 1987. If Bill France Jr didn't than, had a chance to do something about it after the 1990 season. After 1990 Darrell Waltrip formed his own team, but used Hendrick engines. Hendrick going back to 3 cars happened when Jeff Gordon signed with Hendrick in 1992 with Jeff running for rookie of the year in 1993. Roush had first had 4 teams in 1997. A year later was the 5th team. Hendrick didn't have a 4th team before Jimmie Johnson was signed as a cup driver. 52. Talon64 posted: 10.13.2009 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick had his first top 10 start since Atlanta in March and got his 3rd top ten in the last 6 races. RCR cars finished 9th, 10th and 11th with Clint, Kevin and the best running RCR car all race which was Mears but tire strategy cost him a shot at a top five. Kurt's 8 top fives and 17 top tens are the most he's had in a season since 2005, his last year with Roush. David Ragan got his first top ten since the Daytona 500. He's up to 28th in the standings. Carl's finishing position has improved in each of the first 4 Chase races but only 2 top tens and a best finish of 6th here at Cali has already doomed his championship hopes after 9 wins and 2nd in the standings last season. Jimmie Johnson's 45 career wins is just one behind Buck Baker for 13th on the all time list. Mark Martin tied Cale Yarborough for 7th on the all time list with 255 top fives. Tony Stewart's 228 top tens is 2 behind Jim Paschal for 20th all time. And Jeff Gordon just needs two more 2nd place finishes to tie Cale Yarborough for 5th all time. 53. Kit posted: 10.13.2009 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "My point is inflated win totals isn't something new with drivers." True, but I was only really looking at the Modern Era. "Even without counting the satellite teams, wins for full-time multi-car teams have inflated for several years." Agreed. Unlike baseball, which has been pretty much static the past 100 years, it's hard to connect the champion of now with champions of the past because NASCAR has tinkered with the point system and the sport in general so much. The empty suits in Daytona just want to make quick $$$$ and don't give a shit about the specifics. Plus now, it's not much of a competition when there's only a handful of cars capable of winning in a given week. "I agree there should a 2 car limit for teams in Nascar." I do, too. There are too many barriers to entry for a team to start up and be competitive in the sport. Just look at the #49 from a few years back. Where are they at now? People complain about the start and park teams, but that's really a result of it being so hard to start a team and be competitive. I liked it better in the early '90s when you had a guy like Kulwicki who came in, busted his ass, and became competitive. That was back when race teams were still RACE TEAMS instead of being these multi-million dollar corporations. "I think Ernie Irvan, Geoff Bodine, and Harry Gant were all much better drivers than Jimmie. If you switched him with AJ Allmendinger the 48 would run much better than the 44 every week even with Jimmie in the 44." Those three drivers could do things with a race car I've never seen Jimmie Johnson do. Funny that you brought Harry Gant up, I read one of his recent interviews in which he doesn't even pay any attention to NASCAR. It's changed too much for him. 54. Anonymous posted: 10.13.2009 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree that there is a question on Jimmie's talent as a stock car driver. It wouldn't surprise me if Jimmie went stock car racing because he through a couple off road racing leagues that folded while he was off road racing. Jimmie had an impressive background before going stock car racing. He won a motorcycle championship when he was 8 years old despite injuring his knee. Jimmie accumulated over 25 wins, 100 top-three finishes, six championships, and received Rookie of the Year honors in 3 off road leagues. 2 of the league he was in folded while Jimmie was involved in off road racing though. Based on his off road racing experience, you figure he would be better at road racing in stock cars. Jimmie went to ASA for a couple years and finished in the top 5 in points both years. He only won ASA 2 times and they happened in his 2nd year in that series. ASA was a short track stock car series. It was great short track series and the fact Jimmie only won there twice makes you wonder how much talent does Jimmie has a short track racer. That series had some tracks like the Milwaukee Mile, Indianapolis Raceway Park and Winchester Speedway for an example. Winchester Speedway is race track that has more banking Bristol. I am guessing Jimmie did well at Phoenix based Jeff's notes despite Jeff not winning there before Jimmie went to Hendrick. Rockingham is a question mark if he would get better based on the fact Kevin Harvick and Dale Jr. had problems at Rockingham and raced there longer than Jimmie. I question the people on Speed claiming that Jimmie is a future Nascar Hall of Fame driver. The stats scream hall of fame, but it is really not the driver. Jimmie surrounded himself with great people on the 48 team and a great race organization. I know Indy is more driver than a cookie cutter is based on the fact is a handling track that a car needs a good aerodynamic package. Indy though isn't as much as a driver track as a short track, road course or 1 mile tracks are though. 55. Anonymous posted: 10.13.2009 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to the road Jimmie went to Nascar isn't anything new. Ricky Rudd and Joe Weatherly raced Motorcycles before going to a Nascar series. Joe Weatherly is one of the 25 nominees on the ballot for the 2010 Nascar Hall of Fame with Joe being a 2 time cup champion. That speaks volumes about Joe Weatherly as a driver. His 1963 season was amazing with Joe winning the cup championship despite driver for 7 or 8 different owners. Ricky Rudd was one of the best drivers of his era despite racing cup without stock car experience before his first cup race and is now a Nascar Hall of Fame voter. Rudd didn't win a lot at cookie cutter tracks, but most of his wins come from short tracks, 1 mile tracks, road courses and 1 Darlington win. His Indy and Pocono win can be considered based on driver to a point even. Rudd and Joe Weatherly have more talent than Jimmie as a stock car driver. 56. Sean posted: 10.13.2009 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Jimmie was mostly car his early years as well, but that's getting harder and harder to justify to me. No matter who his teammates are: Jeff Gordon (top-ten all time), Terry Labonte (two-time champion), Kyle Busch (has won 12 races in 2008-09 since leaving Hendrick), Mark Martin (40-time race winner), Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (once-prolific race winner), he always outperforms everyone. Yes, Knaus is the best crew chief in Cup, but I don't think the 48 would be outperforming the other Hendrick cars that consistently over an extended period unless Jimmie had a lot to do with it himself. Switch Johnson and Allmendinger and I'd say they'd both be borderline chasers, but I'd give Johnson the edge. Kahne can place an RPM car in the chase, and I do think Johnson is better, though Kahne is underrated. I LIKE Ernie Irvan and Geoff Bodine much, much more than I like Johnson (and Irvan and Bodine were two of my favorites in the '90s, while I can't really stand Johnson much) but at this point, Johnson's done so much I'd rank him over either. Irvan and Bodine may have done things with a car that Johnson didn't do but that's because they have different styles. Bodine and especially Irvan showed all-out aggression often because they were overachieving in weak equipment and needed to push their equipment at or beyond its limit to win. I view Johnson as more or less the new Dale Jarrett: a driver who has the best stuff on the track (I think the #88 had stronger engines than the #24 in the late '90s, though most would disagree, with Evernham's setups and strategies and Gordon's superior talent making up the horsepower difference) who generally exhibits patience throughout a race to have consistently strong (and boring) performance. Johnson has the car to not have to take really aggressive risks, so that's why he is boring and not flashy. Bodine and Irvan were much more exciting to watch but I don't think they were better. When Irvan finally had a premier ride in the #28 notice that he adopted a rather steady performance much like we've seen from Gordon, Johnson, and Martin, rather than at Morgan-McClure, when he was being really aggressive. Who's to say that Johnson couldn't push himself to a winning performance in weaker equipment like they did? He doesn't need to, and should he be discounted for that? Having said that, I think Irvan and Bodine and Bonnett and Gant and Rudd and Richmond in particular are all massively underrated and better than any of the guys with 10-20 wins now. I'd rank Richmond over Johnson, but the rest just behind (I would rank others with fewer wins ahead of Johnson: Martin, Elliott, Isaac, Roberts, Flock, Weatherly, and maybe a few others). This silliness about Johnson not being able to win on drivers' tracks? He's won on EVERY ONE except the road courses and Bristol (where he should have won this year until a pit miscue) and Rockingham (which closed before he really became a HUGE star). Johnson drivers' track wins: Darlington 2, Dover 5, Indianapolis 3, Loudon 2, Martinsville 6, Phoenix 3, Pocono 2, Richmond 3 Total: 26 Johnson horsepower track wins: Atlanta 3, Charlotte 5, Daytona 1, Fontana 4, Kansas 1, Las Vegas 3, Talladega 1, Texas 1 Total: 19 So there. Even with the increase in cookie-cutter tracks of late, he has won MORE races on drivers' tracks than on horsepower tracks (you can quibble with me with regard to the tracks I chose if you like). Many of the modern drivers with 10+ wins I don't think can say this. I don't really like Johnson at all, and he shouldn't have three titles because of the stupid chase, but I see no way to not put him in any top 25 Cup drivers list... 57. Kit posted: 10.14.2009 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't have time to fully respond to your post, Sean, but I will when I can. "he always outperforms everyone." That could simply be due to having more momentum than his teammates. Jeff Gordon has been slightly flaky compared to his early career. His back issues may be the reason for this and can contribute to a driver being on again and off again. Plus he hasn't been the same since Evernham left. Terry Labonte was an old war horse ready to be set out to pasture. Kryle Busch has obvious maturity issues and emotional problems. Mark Martin hasn't been driving for Hendrick full-time until this year and the #5 has been in constant limbo since Labonte left. Dale Jr. we've discussed ad nauseam. It's really not that difficult to outperform those guys under those circumstances. The #48 team has also been static compared to those teams the past couple of seasons. 58. Bronco posted: 10.14.2009 - 9:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I do, too. There are too many barriers to entry for a team to start up and be competitive in the sport. Just look at the #49 from a few years back. Where are they at now? People complain about the start and park teams, but that's really a result of it being so hard to start a team and be competitive." I disagree. What about Red Bull Racing and MWR? Two years ago when they came into the sport they struggled like crap just to make races, much less be compettiive. Now they both have wins, (althought Reut's win was pretty fluky) and Reut and Vickers are having the best seasons of their careers. True they're not beating the superteams, but they're still modestly competitive. To me the top 35 rule is what is preventing new teams to come into the sport more than anything else. Start and park teams are a completely different story. They're just taking advantage of low car counts to haul away some quick cash. People like Phil Start and Parksons know its much more profitable to pull in after 20 laps rather than run the full race and lose and engine or get involved in a crash. As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have the money to race in the Cup series, then stay home! Don't degrade the integrity of the sport by making quick buck. It's like showing up to work for an hour, but getting paid for the whole day. 59. Eric posted: 10.14.2009 - 9:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, I think your on to something with the comparison from Jimmie Johnson to Dale Jarrett. Strategy was an issue for both teams time to time during their eras. The only part Dale Jarrett was really better than Johnson at was at plate racing. Jarrett was one of the best plate racers not named Dale Sr. and Jeff Gordon at his peak. I always felt Robert Yates Racing had better horsepower than Roush in the ford camp back in the 1990's. Hendrick is slightly below Yates at the time in horsepower. Yates won at Michigan more in the 1990's than Hendrick did and I think it was caused before the body ford has on it's race cars. Michigan is know as a Ford track for several years in cup. Michigan is a track based on Horsepower, aerodynamics and set up, but the driver doesn't play much of a roll there despite set up. Indy is a handling/horsepower/aerodynamic track. Indy is more of a driver's track compare to a Cookie cutter track. Kevin Harvick was able to do so well here in his career despite RCR not being known for horsepower. Dale Jarrett had the field beat in 1998 at Indy, but he ran out of fuel and Jeff Gordon won as a result. The 88 car was great at Indy from 1996 to 1999 and Horsepower was one of the reasons why the 88 was great at Indy besides a great set up. 60. Kit posted: 10.14.2009 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I disagree. What about Red Bull Racing and MWR?" Right now, Red Bull and MWR have more potential than success so they don't go against my point. For those two teams, there's about a dozen just like the #49. Plus there are the long-time teams that have left the sport, such as Morgan McClure and Bill Davis. Not even Roush and RCR have anything for Hendrick this year. Hendrick is that dominating. Plus when you have NASCAR running to them to develop fuel injection, thus giving Hendrick a "first with experience" advantage, that will just make them more dominating. "Start and park teams are a completely different story. They're just taking advantage of low car counts to haul away some quick cash." You don't know a team's intent for sure. Morgan Shepard used to start and park a few years ago, but that was because his team couldn't afford more than one set of tires. The cost of the sport is so astronomically high nowadays that some of these teams CAN'T afford to run the entire race. At the same time, racing is their career. So yes, they will make money as they can. If the sport was cheaper, there wouldn't be anywhere near as many start and parks because the teams would have a greater incentive to run the entire race and get a higher payoff. "As far as I'm concerned, if you don't have the money to race in the Cup series, then stay home!" How does this affect your enjoyment of the sport? Seriously. I don't see how two or three cars dead last on the ticker would serious derive you of pleasure. It's something I just ignore. Besides, some of these guys have to pay their mortgage for their homes. "Don't degrade the integrity of the sport by making quick buck." The empty suits in Daytona have downgraded the sport in the last 15 years so much that the actions of the start and park teams is like a speck of space dust next to a supernova in comparison. "It's like showing up to work for an hour, but getting paid for the whole day." Who ever complains about that? 61. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.14.2009 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the big difference in today's nascar is that the driver is about 50 percent of the equation....then it's 10% pit crew and 40% car....in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, the driver was 75-80% of the equation" I agree. Back then nobody knew very much about aerodynamics. If they did, there is no way in hell Petty Enterprises would have run a Dodge Magnum in 1978. They would have taken one computer scan of it (if they had today's technology back then) and said "No way!" That old Dodge Magnum could probably win in a head on collision with a Panzer Tank. The teams just put whatever they had out there and the drivers drove the hell out of it. The cars were huge and boxy and off the ground. Now the cars rely totally on aerodymanics and front end setup. Whoever has the best and most expensive technology (HMS) wins. The shame of it is that NASCAR had a chance to rectify all these problems with the COT. By forcing the teams to start from scratch with nothing that can translate from the old car, they could have made the cars much racier and put it more in the driver's hands. Instead they came up with an absolute abortion. It is ugly, makes side by side racing nearly impossible, and almost completely took it out of the driver's hands. "the deal with stewart and hendrick sucks" I knew he'd find a way around the team limit. NASCAR should've stepped in and said "No Way", which brings me to my next point: "the real problem is that there is no BIG BILL france in nascar anymore.....nascar, with the france kids and puppet mike helton are so afraid of team owners like hendrick, roush, gibbs, etc" Wow red, I agreed with you three times in one post! But you are right, he would have never let this happen. He'd have forced SHR to use their own engines and chassis. And if they didn't like it, he'd have done like he did to Richard Petty and let them go drag racing for a year. 62. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.14.2009 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I kind of suspect that driver ability doesn't play as large as a role anymore as does having the best car on the track for a particular race. I mean, compare Jimmie Johnson's wins to Dale Earnhardt. To me, it seems like Dale Earnhardt grinded more of his wins. Johnson won a lot because the #48 had the best car and equipment on the track. Johnson's a great driver but I'd imagine that any of the decent drivers in Cup would still have 30+ wins if they were in his car." I agree. The car is pretty much everything. You mentioned Harvick. He got 5 of his 11 wins in one year on flat tracks which he dominated. He has been nonexistant at those tracks since. Or look at JPM. For 2 and 1/2 years he could barely run in the Top 15. Then they built that one car that they dominated Indy with (before he choked) and now he can't stay out of the Top 5. They run that car almost everywhere now. 63. Talon64 posted: 10.14.2009 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Jimmie Johnson has ever given up on the track, if he has a sniff at a win or a good result he'll get there. Just look at some of his late race passes like last lap at Lowes in 2005 over B-Lab, or last lap Vegas in 2006 over Kenseth, or 2 laps to go over Tony Stewart at Atlanta in 2007. Those are just off the top of my head, no one else has more late race passes for the win than Jimmie has. BTW the first HoF fame class has been inducted: Bill France Sr., Bill France Jr., Richard Petty, Dale Earnhardt and Junior Johnson. I had Red Byron instead of Bill France Jr. but I still think they got it right. 64. Smokefan05 posted: 10.14.2009 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad those guys get into the HoF. I had Bill Sr., Bill Jr., Dale Earnhardt (duh), The King (duh)and Cale Y. But all in all they got it right. 65. Talon64 posted: 10.14.2009 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richard Petty says that David Pearson was his first choice to be in the first HoF class; says anyone who ignores 105 wins "isn't adding right". Pearson was as deserving as anyone to get in first thing but unfortunately there were a lot of deserving people. I think he's the best driver ever in NASCAR but Petty and Earnhardt had more of an impact in the sport. 66. Talon64 posted: 10.14.2009 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Pearson, Bobby Allison and Cale Yarborough were the three highest vote getters who didn't make the top 5. 67. Anonymous posted: 10.14.2009 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I expect David Pearson, Bobby Allison and Cale Yarborough getting in next year. The are two spots left and there will be new names on the ballot for next year. I had Junior Johnson as one of my five picks because he won 50 races, the best car owner in his era, discovered drafting, and responsible for bringing in Winston to Nascar. The only one I got wrong was David Pearson going into the Nascar Hall of Fame. I didn't have Bill France Sr. get in. I didn't have Bill France Jr. in because I thought two Frances in one class would be to many in terms the fact there are only 5 people could get inducted in terms of the controversy it could cause. Bill France Jr. would be one of my picks for the 2010 class of Nascar Hall of Fame if there was 10 inductees. 68. redbyron posted: 10.14.2009 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) senior fan, i really believe within 10 years there will only be 8 , maybe 9 team owners in nascar, and im not counting guys like stewart as an owner, thats sad....you know what, i thing 75% of johnsons success is due to knaus....gordon has never been dominant since evernham left, and take chad away from the 48, and you have another dale jr, i really believe that......no way that johnsons success isn't a result of the very best equipment, for chrissakes, mark martin was all but in the retirement home before he went to hendrick...the last few years he had been at roush, he looked like dog crap, he did moderately well in the dei stuff, which was still on somewhat of a competitive level, but the fact that he is dominant again in a hendrick car makes casey mears and junior look even worse for how bad they ran in that stuff.....and im not piling on junior, but he has been awful.....casey mears got fired from hendrick for running this bad!!!! 69. Anonymous posted: 10.14.2009 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The amount of teams left in the Cup series in 10 years will be depended on if any of the current owners not playing a big role. Take a look at the age of the following cup owners right now: Richard Childress â?? 64 Joe Gibbs â?? 69 Jack Roush â?? 67 Roger Penske â?? 72 George Gillett â?? 70 Rick Hendrick â?? 60 Dietrich Mateschitz (red Bull racing) â?? 65 I don't if all the owners I mention will play a big part in the race organizations they are running now in 10 year or be alive. I know Gibbs is set, but Penske is a question for a cup side. I know Roger has kids, but one of them owns there own IRL team. The other catch is I don't know if they want to take over for his dad as an owner for Nascar. I don't see Gillett staying Nascar in 10 years without counting his age. I don't know if Roush has people ready to take over for him. I think Jeff Gordon will take over Hendrick sometime down the road since Rick's son died. 70. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.15.2009 - 4:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think Jimmie Johnson has ever given up on the track, if he has a sniff at a win or a good result he'll get there. Just look at some of his late race passes like last lap at Lowes in 2005 over B-Lab, or last lap Vegas in 2006 over Kenseth, or 2 laps to go over Tony Stewart at Atlanta in 2007. Those are just off the top of my head, no one else has more late race passes for the win than Jimmie has." I'm not a fan of Jimmie's by any stretch of the imagination, but I definitely have to respect what he does when he gets behind the wheel. He just seems to have that determination you need to win championships. Take Atlanta last fall when his pit crew messed up and I believe he was a lap down at one point, but he ended up making the lap up, and drove all the way back to second place, which is where he finished that day. That there is why he wins championships; he NEVER gives up. 71. Rad83 posted: 10.15.2009 - 12:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I definitely think that Johnson is overrated as a driver. I mean He's got some talent, but not as much as his 3 championships and 45 wins would suggest. To be quite honest, he hasn't had very much compitition the past few years. All the other good drivers haven't been able to stop his team. I hate it. I wish we had talented drivers like Rusty Wallace or Ricky Rudd. Oh, and to the person who compared Johnson to Jarrett, I have always thoguht that Jarrett and Bobby Labonte were tremendously overrated. Their sucess came due to being with the right team, resources, and having good chemistry with their team menbers like Makar (Labonte) or Parott (Jarrett). Those 2 drivers were decnt, but not half as good as their teams made them look. Just like Jimmie Johnson. 72. Anonymous posted: 10.15.2009 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have always thoguht that Jarrett and Bobby Labonte were tremendously overrated." Glad I'm not the only one. Jarrett especially. "Jimmie wasn't that great in Nationwide because his equipment wasn't that great." Todd Bodine did just fine with that same equipment, even without a sponsor. Was on his way to the Busch Series title in 2003. 73. Talon64 posted: 10.15.2009 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Todd had almost 200 Cup starts, 300 Nationwide starts and 14 Nationwide wins before 2003. Johnson was only in his first two seasons in Nationwide and as far I know the team the team had just started up with the Herzogs owning a car as early as 1999. 74. Anonymous posted: 10.15.2009 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am agree about Jarrett and Bobby Labonte being overrated. The odd thing is the fact both raced for Joe Gibbs Racing at points of their career. The difference between those two is Dale was a stronger plate racer than Bobby Labonte. I made comment last year that Terry Labonte was the more talented than his brother Bobby Labonte. Terry was better overall at driver's tracks than Bobby despite being a points racer. I made a comment earlier this year that the 18 car would win a championship earlier than it did with Bobby Labonte. That team had 2 overrated drivers. I felt driver like Mark Martin, Ricky Rudd, and Dale Earnhardt Sr as driver before his 1996 crash was capable giving the 18 team a championship sooner. The good news concerning Bobby Labonte and Dale Jarrett is the Nascar Hall of voters will not overrate them. There will arguments down the road between the voters like is Fireball Roberts a better driver than Dale Jarrett. The same thing between Benny Parsons and Bobby Labonte. Benny won races and a championship on a team that wasn't well funded compared to Richard Petty for an example back in the 1970's. I think the voters would pick Benny Persons and Fireball Roberts ahead of Jarrett and Bobby Labonte. The only thing the voters could be accused of is allowing grudges against David Person to decide not to put him in the Nascar Hall of Fame in 2010. According ED Hinton there was a grudge against David Pearson because he spoke bad against Nascar in the past. 75. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.15.2009 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How the HELL did David Pearson not get in the first class HOF? Once again, something NASCAR is involved with gets totally screwed up. You could make a great argument Pearson is the best ever. I personally have Dale Earnhardt as #1 and Pearson as #1.000001. But you could easily argue against that. Pearson won whatever he got in. Cotton Owens' Dodges, Holman Moody Fords (nearly beating Pete Hamilton in the 1970 Daytona 500 while Pete was in a SUPERBIRD!!!!! He should have lapped Pearson with that car and its huge wing and bullet nose) and of course the Wood Brother's Mercurys. He kicked some major ass in those cars. Then, in the late 70s, he stepped into Osterland's car as a temporary driver while their rookie (a guy named Dale) was out with two broken collarbones and wins the Southern 500. HOW IS THIS GUY NOT A FIRST BALLOTER?????? 76. Anonymous posted: 10.15.2009 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, According the Espn chat Ed Hinton, Ed mentioned "David wasn't more media-friendly in his time, and now he's paying the price, compared to Petty, who was always media friendly.What Pearson does best is tell it like it is -- he's often critical of NASCAR rules. That's what they don't like, and that's what probably kept him out." My source is http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/28812 . There are a total of 51 votes. Here is a fact that I know of 4 Nascar Hall of Fame Voters. 4 of them are people that represent GM, Ford, Dodge, and Toyota. Those 4 voters came out said they for Bill France Jr because they were allowed into Nascar according speed yesterday. There are 9 people that are retired owners, crew, chiefs and drivers that are voters for the Nascar Hall of fame. The catch is Bud Moore, Ned Jarrett, and Junior Johnson were on the Ballot. Some of the media people are voters like Mike Joy. I know Truck series announcer Rick Allen months ago mentioned in Wind Tunnel said he will voting for both Frances, Dale Earnhardt Sr, Richard Petty and Darrell Waltrip. Rick admitted that he doesn't the knowledge of some the voters concerning Nascar's past. Rick was almost 10 years old when the 1979 Daytona 500 happened. 77. RR posted: 10.15.2009 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed, DaleSrFan. Somebody once asked Richard Petty what scared him the most in racing (alluding to crsahes, fires, etc.). Petty responded "when Pearson throws that last cigarette out the window, 'cause you know he's gonna start racin' then." That's bullshit if they didn't vote for him because he made statements against NASCAR. So did Dale Earnhardt (see 2000 Daytona). Petty led a boycott of a race (you don't think THAT pissed NASCAR off). Then again, I'd say Pearson probably cares as much about this as Waylon Jennings cared about getting in to the Country Music Hall of Fame. I am glad to see Junior Johnson get it; I really think he deserves it. IMO, greatest driver to have never won a championship (a case could be made for Fireball Roberts) and a legendary owner. His dominance of the short tracks in the days of Yarborough and Waltrip is ridiculous. Lisa France Kennedy said that Bill Jr. would have prefered that another driver get in over him. I agree with that. I know that Bill France Jr. did a lot for NASCAR, but I'd prefer one France per year. But you know that many of those voters will do anything to kiss NASCAR's ass. Wonder how long it will be before somebody like Curtis Turner gets in. Oh, and Smokey Yunick and Harry Hyde had better be at the very least nominated next year. 5 for 2011: Pearson Yunick Yarborough Parks Byron 78. Ryan posted: 10.15.2009 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tim Flock, David Pearson, Yarborough, Bobby Allison, Joe Weatherly in 2010! 79. Sean posted: 10.16.2009 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Based on how predictable they were this year, I would assume they'll go for the other four big winners (Pearson, Yarborough, Waltrip, Allison...they'll wait until some time after Gordon's retirement to give it to him) along with some pioneer, probably Lee Petty for having more wins than the other '50s drivers and being the foundation of Petty Enterprises. They won't be as creative as anyone wants, and I think it will be several years before any engine builders or crew chiefs are nominated (there weren't any this year in a class of 25.) 80. Anonymous posted: 10.16.2009 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, Bud Moore was a crew chief before he turned into a car owner and Bud won a championship as a crew chief with Buck Baker, and Joe Weatherly. Bud was on the top 25 ballot list. 81. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.16.2009 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They should have never forced them to decide between just 5 people. In the 60+ year history of NASCAR, it went from a bunch of outlaw moonshiners racing their getaway cars (which is awesome) on small dirt tracks in the backwoods of the South to a Nationally recognized major sport (although they have abviously made some major missteps lately). You can't narrow that down to 5 people. Lots of people had to be snubbed (Pearson, Yarborough, Allison, Bud Moore, Weatherly, Lee Petty). But it is just like everything else NASCAR has done lately. They totally screwed it up. 82. Bronco posted: 10.16.2009 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They should have never forced them to decide between just 5 people." I agree, for the inaugral class it should have been at least 10 people, there are too many important characters in the history of the sport to narrow it down to just 5. And I would have chosen David Pearson over Junior Johnson for sure. I wonder if and when Busch series legends (Sam Ard, Jack Ingram) and Truck series legends (Hornaday, Skinner and Sprague) will be inducted. 83. Talon64 posted: 10.16.2009 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or legends in the lower East/West/Modified series. Mike Stefanik is a no doubter with 7 modified and 2 East championships but he's still active; then you've got Ray Elder who won 6 West championships and even a couple Cup races or Andy Santerre who won 4 straight East championships and Jamie Aube who won 3. 84. Anonymous posted: 10.16.2009 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The legends of the lower series will be looked at more after the one following: 1.) The quality of cup drivers on a ballot goes down 2.) Quality of the cup owners on a ballot goes down. 3.) The other way is the well known cup drivers that race in the Busch/Nationwide series get inducted. Some of the legendary cup drivers were known to race in the Busch/Nationwide series as a cup regular if they raced in the 1980's, 1990's or earlier this decade. Some of the biggest Busch series/Nationwide series winners of all time are cup regulars. Dale Sr. was one of those drivers besides being a legendary driver on the cup side and he got inducted. Dale won 21 Busch series races. Dale was one of the biggest Busch series winners of his era and all time by the time he retired from Busch series competition that is not named Harry Gant. I didn't mention the quality of contributors because it is a long list from media people, executive types, track founders, track promoter for an example for type of contributors outside of drivers, owners, and crew members. The first one to happen will be the quality of cup owners on a ballot for lower series drivers to get inducted. I am saying that it is very difficult right now for new team or team owner to get started in the Nascar cup series right now because of the rules in Nascar right now. You need to be the owner of a satellite team right now in order to be successful in the cup series as a new cup owner. The cup drivers that race in Busch/Nationwide will be showing up in some years on a ballot. Right now Make Martin is active and can't be on the ballot until 3 years after he retires. It depends on if that type of a driver is already retires in terms of regular Busch series drivers, truck driver and lower series drivers get in. The only cup drivers that raced in the Busch/Nationwide series that could be on next years ballot might be Darrell Waltrip and Dale Jarrett. Darrell won 13 Busch Series races in the 1980's while he was a cup regular. Dale Jarrett won 13 Busch races in his career also.1 of Dale Jarrett's Busch series wins happened when he raced less than 10 cup races in a season. 85. Anonymous posted: 10.16.2009 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't see Darrell making it next year. I see David Pearson, Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, Lee Petty and Bruton Smith. Lee Petty needs to get in since he has the most cup wins in the 1950's and founded Petty Enterprises. Petty Enterprises was the most successful cup team from the 1950's to around 1975. Junior Johnson took for the most successful cup owner from 1976 to 1985. 86. Kit posted: 10.16.2009 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been against the Hall of Fame ever since I heard about it. For me, I can draw my own opinions about those involved in the sport and their success; I don't need a NASCAR-sanctioned entity to tell me. The problem is, eventually, dipshits like Mike Helton and Brian France will probably be in it. 87. CarlEdwards99 posted: 10.17.2009 - 2:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill jr. over Pearson? what a joke I wonder if it was Bill jr. talents as a black baller, cheater, or racist that won the HOF voters over? (rolls eyes) 88. 18fan posted: 10.17.2009 - 3:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Pearson should have been in over Bill France Jr. I am still trying to think of what Bill Jr did for NASCAR. Junior Johnson won six titles as an owner, 50 races as a driver, and is responsible all by himself for getting Winston into the sport, so he should have been in. 89. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.17.2009 - 9:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wonder if and when Busch series legends (Sam Ard, Jack Ingram) and Truck series legends (Hornaday, Skinner and Sprague) will be inducted." Considering NASCAR's current treatment of the Busch and Truck Series, I seriously doubt it, and that is a damn shame. Hell, they'll probably offer them jobs cleaning the toilets in the place for $6 an hour. " wonder if it was Bill jr. talents as a black baller, cheater, or racist that won the HOF voters over?" HA! Ain't that the truth. He's the one that started the whole "scripted endings" thing, but he did it through the inspection room. He completely turned the other cheek while the marketable teams and drivers did things that wouldn't even be allowed on Outlaw Street circuits. He totally hammered Bill Elliott and his team throughout 1985 because they were dominating too many races (wouldn't want the best team to actually be champions, would we?) and basically handed the 1985 championship to Darrell Waltrip. He started the whole Socialists movement in NASCAR which has since been taken to extreme measures. 90. Anonymous posted: 10.17.2009 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill France Jr. was given to much credit for the growth of Nascar back from the time he took over in the 1970's to 2003 even before being inducted into the first class by the media. The media in the past act like the France Family was responsible for Winston being part of Nascar, when it was Junior Johnson that was responsible for bringing Winston in. I also think there was conflict of interest being involved in terms Bill France Jr. for being voted on a first place for the Nascar Hall of Fame because of some the people selected as voters including France's cronies. Some of the voters for the Nascar Hall of Fame are the media, people in charge of the race department of car manufacturers that are inside Nascar, and track owners. Some of the other voters are former drivers, former crew chiefs, for owners, and I think people that work for the France family in Nascar also were voters. Bill France JR. was responsible for Nation television contracts for Nascar, and bringing the Bud clash to Daytona,and bringing Nascar to Indy. Those things did help the popularity of Nascar, but Bill Jr. was the sole reason turning from a regional sport to a National Sport. The things Bill Jr. did is not enough to be a ballot hall of fame inductee a first place when there is only 5 people can get in. Drivers, promoters, and people from Winston was responsible Nascar's growth beside Bill Jr. from the time Bill France Jr. took over to the time his idiot son took over. 91. Anonymous posted: 10.17.2009 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to add in to what DaleSrFanForever said about what Bill France Jr. did wrong. Bill JR. didn't stop the muli car take over from the single car teams. Hendrick had 3 full time cup teams in 1987. Roush was the for time to have 4 full time cup teams. Bill Jr. didn't a thing about it. 92. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.17.2009 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Bill JR. didn't stop the muli car take over from the single car teams." Exactly, and that is a big part of what is crippling the sport right now. 93. Brandon Caldwell posted: 02.06.2011 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did anyone mention that this was the race that Jesse McCartney messed up the National Anthem!!! Again. At Martinsville, the high school band plays the National Anthem and it's the best one of the season. Let's keep things like that. 94. Daniel posted: 05.22.2012 - 10:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #37 Tony Raines & #64 Mike Wallace Out using fastest 43: #00 David Reutimann & #98 Paul Menard 95. CBASS posted: 02.04.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates #43 Rosie Organic Chicken #42 Target/ Polaroid #96 DLP HDTV #16 Scotch Blue #12 Penske #82 Red Bull Cola #47 Little Debbie http://archives.ciastockphoto.com/cgi/images.php?group=w0934 96. LASTCAR posted: 04.24.2013 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Bliss picked up the 5th last-place finish of his career in Sunday's Pepsi 500 at the Auto Club speedway of Southern California when his #09 Miccosukee Dodge fell out with engine problems after completing 11 of the race's 250 laps. Bliss qualified 23rd for the race at a speed of 180.845 mph, but deliberately fell to the back of the field before the start of the race. As the race began, it appeared last place would go to David Gilliland, back in the #71 that finished last at Kansas last week. Gilliland had arranged to park his car on lap 6 and relieve Kyle Busch, who was suffering from the flu. However, as the race stayed under green, Gilliland stayed out until lap 14. By then, Mike Bliss had been behind the wall for three laps, giving him the 43rd finishing position. Gilliland drove Busch's Toyota to a 24th place finish. It was the third last-place finish for both Bliss and owner James Finch in 2009 and their first since the rain-shortened Coca-Cola 600 in May. The #09 has one other last-place finish at the Auto Club Speedway: Joe Ruttman finished 43rd in the 2004 Auto Club 500 while also driving Finch's Miccosukee Dodge. Tony Raines, second in this season's last-place rankings, failed to qualify for Sunday's race. Raines did not lose any ground to last-place leader Dave Blaney, however, as Blaney's #66 finished 41st after completing 22 laps. 2009 RANKINGS 1st) Dave Blaney (8) 2nd) Tony Raines (4) 3rd) Mike Bliss (3) 4th) Patrick Carpentier, David Gilliland, Bobby Labonte, Joe Nemechek (2) 5th) Tony Ave, Todd Bodine, P.J. Jones, Matt Kenseth, Joey Logano, Mark Martin, Mike Wallace (1) Visit http://brockbeard.blogspot.com/ for more. 97. Big Mac Fan posted: 11.11.2015 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All four RPM cars crashed out on the same lap. That has to be a first. 98. Braindead Zombie posted: 04.28.2016 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember thinking the first few races of the chase that year, Montoya is actually going to be a legitimate championship contender. And then he just threw in the towel and was never really relevant in NASCAR again other than his Watkins Glen win and a few races in 2013 where he almost won (Richmond and Dover come to mind). 99. 52 posted: 01.04.2020 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I never ever ever noticed how well Juan Pablo Montoya was doing this late into the season. 3rd in the standings and 6th in non-playoff standings. 100. 34McDowellFan posted: 01.05.2020 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2009 was a really good year for JPM, wish he could've had more seasons like this. 101. Anthony2 posted: 01.06.2020 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well he didn't win that season, but JPM certainly had a really good season. 102. Rich posted: 12.17.2020 - 9:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dr. Jerry Punch, Andy Petree and Dale Jarrett were the commentators. Jamie Little, Vince Welch, Shannon Spake and Dave Burns were the pit road reporters. Tim Brewer was at the Chevy cut-away car. Allen Bestwick, Brad Daugherty and Rusty Wallace were at the ESPN pit studio. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: