|| *Comments on the 2010 Shelby American:* View the most recent comment <#166> | Post a comment <#post> 1. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Hmmmm, we have the best car out here, nobody can pass us, we've led the entire race, we have to make this last caution flag pit stop and there are only 7 cars on the lead lap. I think I'll just give my driver two tires. Sounds good to me! Does anyone besides me see a "Jeff Gordon in 1998" type season coming up for the #48? 2. T-Mac posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave Blaney ran the whole race? That can't be right, surely? 3. DaleJrFan18 posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Oh look, two horrid races in a row! With each and every race, I can't help but feel like these are being rigged at times. I can already see 5 in a row written on this one and we're only three friggin weeks in -_- Driver of the Race: Jeff Gordon (Self explainitory) Reject of the Race: Jeff Gordon (Self explainitory) 4. Mike posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure what to think about Steve Letarte. Obviously he can build a race car but he can make HORRIBLE pit calls. Jeff needs another Evernham like crew chief who can build winning cars AND make good pit calls if he's going to win another championship. Another solid run for Joey Logano. Who would have thought he would be the highest Gibbs driver in points after 3 races? 5. Baker posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Garbage. End of Story. Nascar is the biggest joke in all of entertainment officially. I'd rather hear something about Lindsay Lohan or Britney Spears than watch another Nascar race gift wrapped to that arrogant jerk behind the wheel of the #48. Congrats Nascar you just lost another fan!!! I can't wait until you go bankrupt. 6. Eric posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SMI better get their electrical problems fixed by the next time Nascar goes here for the truck series race in September. 2 of the 7 cautions here caused the caution lights on the track not working. I think Joey Logano has to the most improve driver in the cup series so far this year. At this time last year, Joey was lost. It seems like RCR is really closing the gap to Hendrick. Hendrick is still better though. I have see if it is still that case when Nascar changes from the wing to the spoiler. Jeff's team gave the race away by choosing 2 tires over 4 tires. Jimmie is having his best start since 2007. 7. Bronco posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon puts together the most dominating performance in LVMS history, but can't seal the deal when it counted and the winless streak continues.... Interesting fact. Brad Krashelowski's finishes in the 3 races this season are worse than David Stremme's results in the same 3 races from 2009. Also, Stremme's finishes at Texas and Phoenix in the spring were better than Krashelowski's finishes from last fall, and Stremme's finish at Charlotte was better than Krashelowski's Homestead result. In other news, a Phil Parksons owned car actually finished the race, without a sponsor!!! Think NASCAR confiscating their car last week had something to do with it? AJ Allmendinger ran a cool 1990s Mark Martin Valvoline scheme, too bad he didn't finish better. 8. Anonymous posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) " 5. Baker posted: 02.28.10 - 7:51 pm Garbage. End of Story. Nascar is the biggest joke in all of entertainment officially. I'd rather hear something about Lindsay Lohan or Britney Spears than watch another Nascar race gift wrapped to that arrogant jerk behind the wheel of the #48. Congrats Nascar you just lost another fan!!! I can't wait until you go bankrupt. " Lmao. I'm pretty sure they won't be losing any sleep over this, sorry dude. 9. Eric posted: 02.28.2010 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) T-Mac, That is correct. I remembered reading about Prim Motorsports wanting Dave to finish some races this year. Prim mentioned one of the reasons they have two cars, is that Dave could go the whole distance on some of them. 10. Eric posted: 02.28.2010 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, Nascar confiscating Prism Motorsports car last week had nothing to do with it. Prism Motorsports still starts and parks Micheal McDowell. 11. 18fan posted: 02.28.2010 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good, I'm not the only one who thinks the last caution was bullshit. Jeff Gordon has one the fastest cars I've ever seen and one of the best of his career and he only finishes 3rd because his crew chief is a dumbass. With Chad making the calls like he does, Jeff Gordon would be at least a seven time champion.(That is, Chad takes over after Ray leaves.) Kyle finishes fifteenth after having a 6-10th place car but speeding on pit road. He's 12th in points with three top 15 finishes, but those finishes are 14, 14, 15. Kevin Conway proves he should not be in the Cup series. Running next to the wall on lap 2, its almost a given you'll spin out. Yet this no-talent ride hogger will still win rookie of the year. Kenseth might have had the second or third best car, but he pitted for a loose wheel and was off sequence. A similar thing happened to Jeff Burton while Burton was running 5th. 12. Yeah! posted: 02.28.2010 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano has finished ahead of Tony Stewart in all three races so far. Paul Menard finishes in the top 20 for the third time in three tries this year. 13. 18fan posted: 02.28.2010 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I thought this race had a cool name 14. Red posted: 02.28.2010 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone know why this race was just called "The Shelby American"? Sounds awkward without the "400" after the name. I thought it was bullshit that FOX went to commercial with 25 laps to go, knowing that JJ was about to pass Gordon for the lead. Add then of course the pass happened during the commercial break. Nice to see Marcos Ambrose make it through a race without an engine failure. The #47 had three straight motors grenade going back to last year. Horrible luck for Montoya two weeks in a row, and another surprisingly poor performance from Denny Hamlin. I wish RPM would can Elliott Sadler, and Roush would fire David Ragan. Sadler has been a joke for years, and had to file a lawsuit to stay with the team. Ragan is a gigantic bust; he always runs way behind his teammates, and has led a grand total of 35 laps in his CAREER. In a Roush car. 15. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I thought it was bullshit that FOX went to commercial with 25 laps to go, knowing that JJ was about to pass Gordon for the lead. Add then of course the pass happened during the commercial break." I totally agree. 16. Kit posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hear that the Son of Rusty is making his Cup debut at Richmond. Are they crazy? He hasn't even won a Nationwide race yet and has only three top 5s, and they want him to race at Richmond of all places? He's improved, but Richmond? 17. Ryan posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy extends his points lead 18. Kit posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Gordon has one the fastest cars I've ever seen and one of the best of his career and he only finishes 3rd because his crew chief is a dumbass." But shouldn't Jeff Gordon have known better than to listen to his crew chief this time? 19. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't know what the hell Letarte was thinking. They should have just changed all four tires. Maybe Jeff would have had a better shot. Third straight sucky performance for Hamlin. I remember this guy saying, "You better watch out for us in 2010 because we're gonna be dangerous." So far Logano is leaving his two teammates in the dust. He might have a future in this series after all. Third straight awesome finish for Kevin Harvick. Though I still don't respect him, I thought Jeff Burton would be the one doing this well since he performed better than Harvick in 2007 as well as 2008 (Harvick was higher in points but Burton did just as well and scored more wins). Still, all three RCR cars finished in the top-11. Montoya chooses to rip his teammate on TV after he ended up in the garage after contact with McMurray, while at Texas last year, he got loose and spun Carl Edwards and said it was Edwards' fault for racing too close to him. Man, I hate this guy. 20. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree about Steve Wallace. He's nowhere near ready for Cup, even if he has had three top-10's in three Nationwide races so far this year. 21. Eric posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, Rusty is crazy for having Steve having making his debut at Richmond. Steve is getting better, but he isn't ready for cup. Kevin Conway is bad enough right now without Steve. 22. Art D posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1 FOR THE LAST 80 IS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE! At this rate it would take 51 years for Gordon to catch Pearson. (Though, I'm not saying he is going to.) If a coach showed this kind of management in any other sport, Letarte would have been canned! Ninety-eight Gordon dominates the race, O'eight Gordon finishes the race. What a complete and utter, devasting, catastrophic letdown. I've got to raise the BS flag on that pit call. So frustrating for all the #24 followers out there. ---------------------------- Thumbs up to Jimmie for grabbing 49. Once again, he puts himself in that position to steal the show when opportunity arises. I would not be surprised if Johnson breaks the single season win record and becomes the quickest to 60 wins. 23. Smokefan05 posted: 02.28.2010 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon deserves a better CC. Because that was THE dumbiest move i've ever seen a CC make. 4 tires+Jeff Gordon = WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jeff had the field covered and his CC screwed him over. And i'm upset that Jeff isn't upset. "i'm so proud of this team." WTF ever Jeff, i'd be spiting fire and heads would be ripped off. Does Jeff care anymore? Paul Menards 3rd straight top 20, hey not bad. Now keep it up. Joey has improved leaps and bounds over last. I wouldn't be suprised if he wins this year. "Happy" gets another second. I missed the Juan Jaime wreck but Juan is ripping Jaime? Hello Juan Jaime doesn't drive dirty. But i guess that doesn't matter, moron. 24. Cfob posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski finally able to be on the track for the whole race without something out of his control taking him out. And despite everything, he was still the top finishing Dodge, if that even means anything anymore. Kevin Harvick finishes behind Jimmie for the second week straight, but this time he didn't shoot himself in the foot here, just ran out of time. And OMGz something out of the control of the track happens! OUTRAGE! Time to run for our pitchforks and torches and begin lashing out wildly at shapes and colors! ...Or maybe the track just had a one time issue, and we should all drop the demands for SMI to completely rewire their track. This is Auto Racing folks, stuff happens. No need to lose your minds. 25. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleJrFan, all I have to ask to you is... If NASCAR is rigging races, why would they rig them in favor of a driver few people want to see win? Kit, how can Steve Wallace win a Nationwide race when the Cup guys with Cup backing hog all the spots? Steve has improved nicely, and I think he will get his first Nationwide win. Hell, if he was running in the Nationwide Series 10 or so years back, he probably would of had a few wins by now, as well as ample amounts of Top 5's and 10's And finally, agreed. Steve "Retard" Letarte needs thrown off the pit box. If Gordon had some competent crew chiefs these past few years, he probably would be closing in on 100 wins already. 26. Baker posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah Joey Logano back to back top 6 finished. Where are all the haters now? Please tell me I'm wrong again. Kasey Kahne finally has a good finish this year. Ryan Newman sucks and TSR would be better off without him. Replace him with Kahne or Harvick please. Jimmie Johnson is ruining the sport. 27. Watto posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker- domination has never ruined any sport ever. Did the Chicago Bulls with Michael Jordan ruin basketball? How about the Lakers? How about Dale Earnhardt? How about Jeff Gordon? Did either of those two kill NASCAR? Absolutely not. Sit back and enjoy the history being made, because it is damn impressive. I still have my drivers that I root for and I'll keep watching. 28. Smokefan05 posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If NASCAR is rigging races, why would they rig them in favor of a driver few people want to see win?" If NASCAR was rigging races, Dale Jr. would be winning races and Cups hand over fist. But list i checked he isn't doing that. So much for that theory. 29. Stonewall01 posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker - TSR??? It is SHR (Stewart-Haas Racing) I imagine that was what you meant. Before you go bashing anyone you need to know what you are talking about. Also, you said replace Newman with Kahne and in the same post you said Kahne "finally has a good finish this year". You do remember last season when Newman had a string of top 5's/10's that put him into the top 12 chase contenders? Also it is only race #3. 30. Red posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie Johnson is ruining the sport." Baker, you're an idiot. Why can't people have respect for greatness? I'm not a JJ fan, but it seems like so many fans go out of their way to trash him and attempt to diminish his accomplishments (which is impossible at this point). I guess he should just stop trying to win, right? 31. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, you were probably one of those Johnnie-come-latelies that love to bash NASCAR now. Smokefan, exactly. It would make no sense for NASCAR to rig races PERIOD, let alone Jimmie Johnson. If they did, it would be, as you said, Dale Jr. getting the preferential treatment over anyone else. 32. Bob posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow a few things. 1. Jimmie Johnson and Kevin Harvick finish one two for the second week in a row. 2.A caution light malfunction not once but twice in a single race..... 3.Dave Blaney runs the entire race!!!!! 4.Jeff Gordon dominates most of the race just to be passed towards the end of the race again. In all it was a decent race with some good runs by guys that really needed them, Ex. Joey Logano, David Reutimann, Marcos Ambrose. 33. Timmy Quivy posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll ignore the obligatory LeTarte needs to be canned for this comment; I came to that conclusion at Charlotte in 2008; thinking the best way to break Gordon's 0-for streak was to take four tires while leading when the tires were as hard as a rock and the only way they even got the lead in the first place was no tires. Instead, I'll focus on the Dale Earnhardt, Jr. situation. I was never his biggest fan but I did want to see him succeed when he was struggling last year. Three races into this year, nothing is changing and I am actually beginning to take delight in his mediocrity. I mean, when your three other teammates take up the top four and people are trying to point out a 16th place run as a "good day", it becomes laughable. Second straight respectable outing for the underfunded Regan Smith team and holy crap, a respectable outing for Dave Blaney. 34. Neal posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Interesting fact. Brad Krashelowski's finishes in the 3 races this season are worse than David Stremme's results in the same 3 races from 2009. Also, Stremme's finishes at Texas and Phoenix in the spring were better than Krashelowski's finishes from last fall, and Stremme's finish at Charlotte was better than Krashelowski's Homestead result." Keselowski still has more Nationwide AND Cup wins than Stremme. In fact, Keselowski started fewer than half the Sprint Cup races last year and posted better results than Stremme has for his ENTIRE CUP CAREER. Stremme ran 33/36 races and finished 32nd in points. Keselowski started 18 fewer races than Stremme and finished 38th in points. Sorry, but Stremme should stick to a series more suited to his talent level - like ARCA. 35. Rusty posted: 02.28.2010 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Second straight race where the pole sitter failed to lead a lap. When is the last time that happened? 36. Kit posted: 02.28.2010 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kit, how can Steve Wallace win a Nationwide race when the Cup guys with Cup backing hog all the spots? Steve has improved nicely, and I think he will get his first Nationwide win. Hell, if he was running in the Nationwide Series 10 or so years back, he probably would of had a few wins by now, as well as ample amounts of Top 5's and 10's" Because he is Rusty Wallace's son and has one of the best cars on the track. It might be tough for him to win races but he should at least be a lot more competitive in Nationwide before he moves up. I don't buy into your theory that he would have a few wins, this is Steve Wallace we are talking about. He finally learned how not to put his car into an in-field fence. David Gilliand did more with less. 37. Kit posted: 02.28.2010 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Instead, I'll focus on the Dale Earnhardt, Jr. situation. I was never his biggest fan but I did want to see him succeed when he was struggling last year. Three races into this year, nothing is changing and I am actually beginning to take delight in his mediocrity. I mean, when your three other teammates take up the top four and people are trying to point out a 16th place run as a "good day", it becomes laughable." I quite agree. So far, it looks like he'll make improvements in the way of repeating his 2008 season, which wasn't impressive. 38. Cfob posted: 03.01.2010 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Careful Neal, when it comes to Brad, some like to argue with little in the way of logic. 39. Bronco posted: 03.01.2010 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, Rusty is crazy for having Steve having making his debut at Richmond. Steve is getting better, but he isn't ready for cup. Kevin Conway is bad enough right now without Steve." Why is Steve moving up to Cup such a bad thing? He can't do any worse than Spinning Sam, Max Papis, Robby Gordon, or David Ragan. He has 5 straight top 10s going back to last year which is damn impressive in a series dominated by double dipping Cup drivers. Oh yeah, and he beats Brendan Gaughan nearly every week. "Because he is Rusty Wallace's son and has one of the best cars on the track. It might be tough for him to win races but he should at least be a lot more competitive in Nationwide before he moves up." Haha, bullshit. Unless you're driving the 18, 20, 33, 60 or 88 you don't have one of the best cars on track. He's about as competitive as you can expect a Nationwide regular driving for a Nationwide only team to be. "I don't buy into your theory that he would have a few wins, this is Steve Wallace we are talking about. He finally learned how not to put his car into an in-field fence." Um, just last week at California he was the highest finishing driver who didn't have a Cup ride, so there goes your little theory. 40. potatosalad48 posted: 03.01.2010 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie Johnson is ruining the sport." You could not be more wrong, Baker. Over the 62 years of NASCAR, drivers have found certain competitive edges, whether it be car or track. For the #48, it happens to be both. It didn't ruin the sport when Dale Earnhardt won 10 races a year, or when Jeff Gordon won 13 races in 1998. If you think that 1 guy who has figured out how to win and be good and competitive everwhere he goes is ruining the sport, maybe you should watch F1 or IRL, both of which just happened to be dominated by 3 or 4 teams, too. 41. SoxFan24 posted: 03.01.2010 - 2:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go Letarte for giving that race to the 48. Letarte needs to go now. He can build cars and he is a smart mechanic but he can't call a race worth a damn. Why does he always go for TWO TIRES!!!!! Four would have done the job. Nobody could touch the 24 all day. 4 tires will beat 2 most days on mile and a half tracks. Kevin Harvick is having a hell of a start to the season. RCR has their act together. I expect a win for that team any race now Juan Pablo Montoya has a lot of nerve running down his teammate McMurray like that. It didnt' look like McMurray got into him and it was a racing deal. 42. JGfan24 posted: 03.01.2010 - 2:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That last caution was pointless, Gordon had this in the bag without it. The 37 taps the wall and a caution comes out? What a joke. No wonder Gordon won so many races in the 1990s, if this were 1997 or so no caution would've been called for and without another incident gordon would've went on to victory. 43. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.01.2010 - 2:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only thing I could think of was something came off the car (and remember, the 37 had some trouble earlier), and if that was the case, im sure none of you would want their driver to run over a piece of debris, cut a tire, and end their day early. 44. DaleJrFan18 posted: 03.01.2010 - 8:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @martin'n'rusty I should have made my comment clearer. I'm not saying I think they rig it, I meant to say it as though it feels like the same bullshit happening every race as though they would be rigging it in peoples favor. Of course they're not rigging races. 45. DaleJrFan18 posted: 03.01.2010 - 8:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Example: that last caution 46. Eric posted: 03.01.2010 - 9:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Steve Wallace's older brother Greg has denied that RWI will be fielding Sprint Cup Cars in 2010. Greg said RWI currently has no plans of fielding a sprint cup enty. Greg Wallace is a credible source since he works at RWI. Greg is one of the people that handles the business side of his dad's racing organization. 47. petty43 posted: 03.01.2010 - 9:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) dsff the 48 could win 10 but 13 i think that would really be something even still gordon in 98 had like 30 podium finishes, that still might be the best season even I have ever seen at least since bobby allison in 72. that is the best season nobody talks about. anyway gonna be another long year for the 88. 48. Cooper posted: 03.01.2010 - 10:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) People need to remember, Brad is not focusing on CUP. He knows they're not making the chase, so penske himself told him to put his efforts into the nationwide championship. Then when brad wins the nationwide he'll just do cup racing. And brad was running fine until his pitcrew went over the wall before brad was in his spot. Onto the race, it's not jimmie johnson. It's equipment. I was a long time sterling marlin fan, when sterling had equipment he was smacking tails around the racetrack at 42 years old. When he doesn't have equipment he sucks. Same said for any of these drivers. Jimmie Johnson 2000(nationwide series statistics)Finishes of; 22,26,27,36,24,24,10,29,15,12,13,16,20,6,15,43,9,14,18,13,11,6,23,38,22,18,28,13,8,40,6 plus a DNQ at daytona. No equipment no jimmie. You throw me in that #48 i will win a race. Throw steven wallace in, he'll win a race, throw kim kardashian in the #48 she will win. Just remember 10 years ago, jimmie drove his cars almost into the stands at watkins. NASCAR is no longer about drivers, races are won and lossed in the shop. 49. Cooper posted: 03.01.2010 - 10:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will be posting nicknames of the races that i feel suitable. Race 1- Pothole 520 Race 2- Vortex Theory 500 Race 3- Crappy Caution Lights 400 50. Timmy Quivy posted: 03.01.2010 - 10:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, one other thought. Mike Bliss' #36 Kim Kardashian's car has a leg up early in the Ugliest Paint Scheme of the Year; reminded me of that gawd-awful #02 Zapf Creation car Hermie Sadler drove some years back. 51. Ryan posted: 03.01.2010 - 10:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You make some good points Cooper. I believe that Jimmie has grown as a driver over that time period, however. He would have to wouldn't ya think? Plus the cars and engines are different from Cup. So what's Dale Jr's excuse? He was good in Nationwide and good in Cup until the COT came out. Everybody use to say the same thing about Jeff Gordon from 1995-2001 where he was in good cars. Does anyone ever wonder if it could be their crew chief? Evernham and Knaus? You know Knaus is the biggest cheater in sports. Remember, Jimmie has a Daytona 500, but Chad doesn't. I think Harvick is the best pure racer right now though. You look at the equipment he has to work with and what all he has accomplished in a lesser ride. 52. Cooper posted: 03.01.2010 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan, you are right as well. Jimmie has grown, but rick hendrick could've picked any other driver, then jimmie, and they would have the same success. I'm not taking away jimmie as a driver, but rather, someone else could be in his shoes. Look at Bobby Labonte. Joe Gibbs on top, he runs great wins races and a championship. Joe gibbs falls, he falls, eventually now racing the 71 finishing 38th. Bobby Labonte is a top 10 driver, not 38th. With bad equipment brad runs 30th(trucks/nationwide/now), runs hendrick stuff top 5. anyone who can't see that equipment is #1 is blind, and until driver moves back to the #1 variable nascar will struggle with ratings. 53. dUDE gUY posted: 03.01.2010 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish I was surprised that Letarte took only two tires on the last caution, I really do. But his track record led me to believe othjerwise. I would have been more surprised had Letarte actually taken four and, you know, given themselves a fair chance to win the race they dominated. After '07, where Letarte atually did use various successful strategies to win, Letart has the deranged idea that he is now the best crew chief that has ever existed, ever, and that all his calls are unquestonably awesome. The man builds awesome cars, but he can't seem to crew chief them when it counts anymore. It's like the guy wants to have the epic storlyline win (as if leading all but 48 laps isn't an epic enough storlyline win...), and/or he chokes a lot and makes confusingly harmful choices when it matters. Either way, Letart has to shape up or ship out, because he's cost Gordon some potential wins over the last few years with his late-race f**k-uppery. 54. BON GORDON posted: 03.01.2010 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look Steve Latarte isn't going anywhere. Jeff is at a point in his life where he is happy. Mistakes like the call at the end of this race aren't going to affect him at all. Now don't confuse this with not having the desire to compete and win. I think Jeff is more hungry now than he was ten years ago. He understnds how difficult it is to win and that drives him even harder. I like Steve Latarte and while the converasation doesn't seem to stop about how "terrible" he is, you can bet your bottom dollar he isn't going anywhere. By the way here is a quote from Jeff Gordon on NASCAR.com after the race on Sunday, ??I felt like we needed to come in and get some tires, but I felt like two tires was the right call, too. We just needed the 48 to take two. They did the opposite of us. That won the race for them." I also thought the two tire call was a good one. I would have made the same call if I were Steve or Jeff. There is a silver lining in that they kicked butt in this race and if they run like this a lot this year they will win. Thats a 100 percent guarantee. Good luck to Jeff Gordon at "Atlanta." 55. the_man posted: 03.01.2010 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "We made improvements on our car, but our finishing result doesn??t show what kind of car that we had,? said David Ragan, talking about his 23rd place finish in the Shelby American. 56. Rick Hendrick posted: 03.01.2010 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mmm the Kim Kardashian paint scheme is one of the coolest paint schemes I ever heard. 57. 12345Dude posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a run for Joey Logono. Keep it up Logono. He keeps proving he isn't "Stale Bread". I think were going to see more from Joey. And what is going on with Keselowski? He really needs to pick it up. I don't know what's going on with him. 58. Talon64 posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ryan, you are right as well. Jimmie has grown, but rick hendrick could've picked any other driver, then jimmie, and they would have the same success. I'm not taking away jimmie as a driver, but rather, someone else could be in his shoes. Look at Bobby Labonte. Joe Gibbs on top, he runs great wins races and a championship. Joe gibbs falls, he falls, eventually now racing the 71 finishing 38th. Bobby Labonte is a top 10 driver, not 38th. With bad equipment brad runs 30th(trucks/nationwide/now), runs hendrick stuff top 5. anyone who can't see that equipment is #1 is blind, and until driver moves back to the #1 variable nascar will struggle with ratings." So Tony Raines, Scott Wimmer, Kevin Grubb, Hank Parker Jr., Jamie McMurray or Bobby Hamilton Jr. could've won 4 straight championships and 50 races? They were all Nationwide regulars in 2001 who could've been chosen over Jimmie. With the exception of Raines, 37 years old so he's out of the question anyways, Jimmie was the best of the bunch in the standings that season. And what other Cup drivers were available at the time to take over? Nobody as far as I can tell, hardly anyone changed teams from 2001 to 2002. Maybe Jerry Nadeau could've gotten Chad Knaus as a CC to boost the 25 team heading into 2002. Is Jerry Nadeau good enough to win 3 races, lead the points and finish 5th in the standings? Or win championships? So the only driver available at the time who Rick and Jeff could've taken a risk with and could get anything close to a return as they did with Jimmie, was Jamie McMurray. And I don't think Jamie is as good as Jimmie, he could've won races but not as many and probably no championships. Would've been nice for Jamie since he's a good guy. The excuse that "anyone could be as good" is bullshit. Jimmie's a great driver, nobody's as composed as him but nobody else can shark a win like him either. Chad Knaus is probably the greatest CC of all time so it took a once-in-a-lifetime combination like this to get a record 4 straight championships, with a 5th straight looking very likely, and 50 wins in little more than 8 seasons. No other driver is going to win the championships or get the wins in that situation. No other dominant athlete in any other sport or racing series is as put down, roasted or degraded as Jimmie by it's fans and it's pointless. 59. dUDE gUY posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ BON GORDON I just reread my previous comment, and I came off terribly harsh towards Letarte. I take back almost everything I said, except the part where I said he and his team build great cars. I was just venting, and it came out much harsher than I had intended it to. I actually don't think Letarte is terrible. He's a great guy and an awesome Crew Chief, and if I had any racing skills whatsoever I would gladly drive for him. I was just trying to lament the fact that sometimes he seems to make goofy calls near the end of some races (and how this one possibly cost him a victory in a dominating performance, actually the most dominating by far at Vegas), but instead I let my frustration get the better of me and I unnecessarily ripped on him. I was in the middle of an extremely slow and boring workday when I posted that, so that probably added to my frustration as well. I apologize for being so brash and rude. I agree that if they keep driving like this, they will be a terror on the intermediate tracks this year. I think that this loss might even be the kick in the pants the 24 team needs to spark the fire that they seem to have lost somewhere during their '08 campaign. 60. Kit posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The excuse that "anyone could be as good" is bullshit. Jimmie's a great driver, nobody's as composed as him but nobody else can shark a win like him either." Talon64, your entire argument that Jimmie is a great driver is based on a comparison using only Tony Raines, Scott Wimmer, Kevin Grubb, Hank Parker Jr., Jamie McMurray, and Bobby Hamilton Jr. I don't even think Raines ever got a proper chance so I don't think comparing him is fair. Jimmie is pretty much a good driver with a great team. If you put Tony Stewart, Matt Kenseth, Kasey Kahne, or hell even Kyle Busch in the #48 they could probably do AT LEAST as well as Johnson (especially if Stewart and Busch keep their emotions in check). Hendrick is so dominant in the sport right now that all Johnson really needs to do is stay somewhat competitive and keep the car out of the wall. The two good things about Johnson is: 1) He doesn't get flustered and will work his way out of a hole and 2) He seems to have great chemistry with his crew chief. I kinda see Jimmie Johnson in the same vein as Tom Brady: he doesn't have to carry everything on his shoulders because he's surrounded by greatness. All he has to do is play not to lose. Like Brady's stats leading up to his first Super Bowl: two games with sub 200 passing yards and few passing touchdowns. "Chad Knaus is probably the greatest CC of all time so it took a once-in-a-lifetime combination like this to get a record 4 straight championships, with a 5th straight looking very likely, and 50 wins in little more than 8 seasons." Hahahaha! You haven't been watching NASCAR for very long or you have a short memory, apparently. I would rank Ray Evernham's three championships under the old points system above Chad Knaus. Didn't Knaus have some issues with cheating a season or two ago as well? Besides, to me, four straight championships and 50 wins isn't as impressive in this era as you make it out to be. For one thing, they are Cha$e championships. You can slack off and stay in the top 12 for 26 races and then only need to really fire it up for the final 10. Compare that to the old points system when you had to be on top of your game week in and week out ALL YEAR. Plus racing in NASCAR is so astronomically expensive nowadays that the competition is getting watered down. The only team that's stout year in and out is Hendrick. The other two or three good teams have on and off years, like RCR and Roush. Everyone else is fighting for scraps. Most of the other teams have partnerships with the top two or three teams anyway. So it's isn't really surprising to me that the #48 can pull off four championships. Hell, even NASCAR is talking to Hendrick about developing their fuel injection system. So much for unbiased competition. 61. Kit posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and by the way, it's pretty hard to say they have a "record four straight championships" when they are now using an entirely different method to determine the championship. A record four straight championships in the Cha$e, sure. 62. potatosalad48 posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good job Dave Blaney. If Phil Start-and-Parksons would let him run the whole race, they'd be doing better than 43rd in points. 63. Kit posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Onto the race, it's not jimmie johnson. It's equipment. I was a long time sterling marlin fan, when sterling had equipment he was smacking tails around the racetrack at 42 years old. When he doesn't have equipment he sucks." Before he won his first race at the start of '94, Sterling had a ton of competitive runs in not-so-great equipment. He finished second like nine times, and that was before he was in the #4, which was easily one of his best rides, it and the #40 team of '01-'02. "NASCAR is no longer about drivers, races are won and lossed in the shop." I tend to agree to an extent. There's too many drivers who have very cyclical with on and off years to be entirely their fault. This also ties into how damn expensive the sport is now. Speaking of Dale Jr., he is starting to remind of Kyle Busch: a lot of raw talent but also emotionally unbalanced. But with Busch, when he's hot, he's hot. When he's not, he's a total emotional wreck. Dale Jr. sits within that interval; never as hot or as big of a dbag as Busch. 64. Talon64 posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie's 49th career win comes after Steve Letarte couldn't look down pit road to see how big a lead Jeff and Jimmie had on everyone else and that Jeff still would've had great track position if he'd taken 4 tires no matter what else everyone else did. A really bad call that ruined what was Jeff and Steve's best race at a intermediate track since they joined up in late 2005. This was Harvick's 7th runner-up finish in the 110 races since his last win. The 219 laps led was the first time Jeff Gordon's led over 200 laps in a race since Martinsville 2003. Jimmie Johnson's led over 200 laps in a race 3 times in 2009 and 8 times over that same stretch. With 2 top fives and a 12th in the first 3 races, Mark Martin's off to his best start to a season since 2007 when Mark started off with 5 straight top tens and was leading the standings after 3 races. Mark's 3rd so far which is a huge turnaround from 34th last season. Matt Kenseth's off to his best start to a season since... well last season when he won twice, finished 43rd and was 3rd in the standings. Kenseth always starts strong every season and to do it with a self-induced 2nd race CC change is impressive. And it also proves that Kenseth knows more about chemistry than Jack Roush which is great for Matt but sad for Jack. lol This is just the 2nd time in his career that Logano's put together back-to-back top 10's (back-to-back 9th's at Talledega and Darlington). This is the highest the 20 team's been in the standings after 3 races since 2005 when Tony Stewart was 6th. In fact this is the first time that the 20 team hasn't had a dead-last 43rd place finish in the first 3 races since 2005. Logano was 43rd in the Daytona 500 last year while Tony was last at Vegas in 2008, The 500 in 2007 and Fontana in 2006. This is Bowyer's best start to a season; he was 2nd in 2009 with 2 top fives and so far this year he's 2nd with 3 top tens and more points scored. Kahne's 9th was Richard Petty Motorsports' first top ten in 3 races among it's 4 teams. This is the first time Greg Biffle's ever started the season with 3 straight top tens. All 3 RCR teams have finished in the top 11 in the first 3 races with Jeff Burton being the 11th place finisher twice. RCR is 1st, 2nd and 7th in the standings with Jeff in 7th. Carl Edwards hasn't had a top five finish in the past 16 races; his best finish is 6th and he only has 4 top tens over that period. He does have 13 top twenty finishes though. After blowing an engine in 3 straight races dating back to last season, Ambrose finished 14th to move up to 33rd in the owners standings. This is the first time Kyle Busch has gone the first 3 races without a top ten finish, even dating back to his rookie season. Out of the "things could be a lot worse" category, Dale Jr. is sitting 15th in the standings after 3 races. Last season he was 29th. With 3 finishes of 18th or better in the first 3 races, Paul Menard is the highest of the RPM drivers in the standings, 17th. Ryan Newman's 18th place finish moved him up to 32nd in the owners standings. Denny Hamlin's off to a career-worst start to the season, first time he's ever gone the first 3 races without a top ten and sitting 21st in the standings. Scott Speed has already led as many laps in 3 races as he did in all of 2009. 22nd at Vegas was his first finish outside the top 20 but he's still 16th in the standings. David Ragan has only 2 top tens in his last 39 Cup races. Front Row Motorsports cars currently sit 31st, 35th and 36th in the owners standings with the #38, #34 and #37 respectively. Travis Kvapil is 29th in the drivers standings with top 30 finishes in the first 3 races. This is just the 2nd time in 33 races that Prism Motorsports has finished a race with one of it's cars, Blaney finishing 29th. It was likely a response to the bad press for it's cars been impounded by NASCAR but it'll mean jack squat if they S&P at Atlanta. The highest S&P team in the owners standings is the #26 Latitude 43 Motorsports team, sitting 38th in the owners standings. They're the only S&P team in the top 39. 65. Kit posted: 03.01.2010 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why is Steve moving up to Cup such a bad thing? He can't do any worse than Spinning Sam, Max Papis, Robby Gordon, or David Ragan." Robby Gordon and David Ragan do not wreck anywhere near as much as Steve Wallace has in Busch. Do you even watch racing, Bronco? That is a serious question. 66. Talon64 posted: 03.01.2010 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie is pretty much a good driver with a great team. If you put Tony Stewart, Matt Kenseth, Kasey Kahne, or hell even Kyle Busch in the #48 they could probably do AT LEAST as well as Johnson (especially if Stewart and Busch keep their emotions in check). Hendrick is so dominant in the sport right now that all Johnson really needs to do is stay somewhat competitive and keep the car out of the wall." It's ironic you tout Kahne so much and put down Jimmie when Kahne was hired from the same exact situation as Jimmie: only one win and some decent results in Nationwide. It was as much a risk with Kahne for Evernham as it was with Jimmie for HMS. I still call stuff like "pretty much a good driver" bullshit, I've seen Jimmie win too many races he probably shouldn't have and come very close other times to think he's just a good driver. More importantly than just talent, the complete package is the big thing. Robby Gordon's an awesome race car driver, and both Jimmie and Robby came from an off-road truck background. If Robby didn't act like such a moron he'd probably still be at RCR and winning races; you can have all the talent but if you can't put it together then it doesn't matter, whether it's because you're like Robby Gordon or because you're young and don't have the focus to get the results you need like Casey Atwood or Reed Sorenson. I'm a Tony Stewart fan so I'll always believe he's the best driver out there but Jimmie's as good, if not better, as almost anyone else. And it doesn't matter that Jimmie's championships are with the Chase, they're so good they'd likely win them under the old system too. Jimmie almost did it in 2002 IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON, leading the points with 6 races to go and then came on strong at the end to finish 2nd in 2003 in Kenseth's runaway. Without a Chase Jimmie would probably be winning races like he does early in the season, the whole season. 67. Talon64 posted: 03.01.2010 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BTW about Steve Wallace and whether he's ready to make Cup starts, his top fives in Nationwide have come at IRP, Darlington and, you guessed it, Richmond. Steve's best runs have come at short tracks and Richmond is a better place to start than Martinsville. The new Bristol might be alright for him too. It's too bad it won't happen, or at least not yet. 5 Cup starts is alright, especially since it would be one more team with the intention of running the whole race. And Steve has to start somewhere. 68. Eric posted: 03.01.2010 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie didn't do great in the Busch series for a 3 reasons. 1.) Jimmie didn't have much stock car experience before going into the Nationwide series. Jimmie first raced in the Nationwide series in the same year he got his first stock experience. Jimmie's racing experience before 1998 was off road racing. 2.) Jimmie was a Busch series team that didn't race in that series prior to Jimmie Johnson. Cup teams were starting to have Busch/Nationwide teams like RCR and Gibbs, Roush for an example and that a disadvantage. 3.)Busch series isn't a great measuring stick for cup success for some drivers. Some cup great drivers were not on great team, or had little stock car experience before going to Busch/Nationwide. Jeff Gordon wasn't exactly a great driver in the Nationwide series either before to cup. Jeff show potential though. Jeff used the series for gaining stock car experience. Kasey Khane wasn't contending for many wins either as a Busch series driver before going to Evernham. 69. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.01.2010 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleJrFan, you might think that, but quite frankly, the "rigged" stuff is quite old, no matter who is saying it. 70. Eric posted: 03.01.2010 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie is a talented driver, but I can't put him on the same level as Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewart in pure talent. Jimmie isn't as a good as Jeff in his prime on Road courses and short tracks. Jimmie became a smart driver through the years. I couldn't say that in the beginning in terms of plate racing. Jimmie is easier to deal with than a Tony Stewart. Chad is one of the best crew chiefs I seen. I can't put him a head of ray do the fact Chad got caught so many times by Nascar in the past. 71. Smokefan05 posted: 03.01.2010 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie is a talented driver, but I can't put him on the same level as Jeff Gordon or Tony Stewart in pure talent. Jimmie isn't as a good as Jeff in his prime on Road courses and short tracks." Jimmie can't win a road course for reason and even IF he does he'll never win 6 in a row like Jeff did. Dale Sr. is a better RC racer than JJ, i'll even put Robby Gordon ahead of Jimmie. "Jimmie became a smart driver through the years. I couldn't say that in the beginning in terms of plate racing. Jimmie is easier to deal with than a Tony Stewart. Chad is one of the best crew chiefs I seen. I can't put him a head of ray do the fact Chad got caught so many times by Nascar in the past." Jimmie hasn't won a plate races since 06. So IDK what's is going on there. Ray is better CC than Chad. Chad is smart don't get me wrong but Ray did it without the cheating. Chad got caught like what 4 times. Sorry Chad it sticks with you. "No other dominant athlete in any other sport or racing series is as put down, roasted or degraded as Jimmie by it's fans and it's pointless." Maybe if he wasn't such a robot maybe more of us would respect (and like) him more. I respect Jimmie for his talent but that's as far as it goes with me. 72. Eric posted: 03.01.2010 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie not winning a plate race since 2006 doesn't mean he isn't a smart driver. I called Jimmie smart driver for plate races because he doesn't make mistakes on plate tracks that trigger the big one, unlike Carl Edwards. Jimmie used to make plate mistakes that caused the big one before 2006. Jimmie did some dumb stuff at plate tracks before 2006 like the two Talladega races in 2005. The other reason I cal him a smart driver is the fact he doesn't beat himself and doesn't make a lot of mistakes unlike a Kyle Busch and Tony Stewart for an example. Stewart 37 times, but he gave away a lot of races through the years by his own making including a couple Daytona 500's. 73. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.01.2010 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "With bad equipment brad runs 30th(trucks/nationwide/now), runs hendrick stuff top 5." Brad has had two top-5's with a new Penske team this year in Nationwide. 74. Eric posted: 03.01.2010 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The race wasn't rigged unlike DaleJrFan18 mentioned. My argument is the fact if Nascar fixes races, the driver of the 88 would have multiple championships by now. Baker is full of it by claiming Jimmie Johnson is ruining the sport. Jimmie doesn't the personality you want, but he isn't the first driver to win a lot or the last. Dale Earnhardt Sr., Darrell Waltrip and Jeff Gordon dominated Nascar for a time. Those 3 drivers weren't exactly the most popular drivers around at their peaks. Dale Sr. Sold a lot of merchandise, but he was a you live him or hate him driver. Part of the reason Jimmie is winning this year is other teams or drivers are making mistakes. Kevin Harvick had the car to beat Jimmie Johnson at Auto Club speedway, but he went to fast on pit road, and he got into the wall while catching Jimmie Johnson. The 24 car had the better Car at Vegas, but the crew chief made the wrong tire call. 75. Smokefan05 posted: 03.01.2010 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes Eric i agree that Jimmie is smart when it comes too plate racing, but so is Jaime Mcmurray. And last check Jaime has won the past 2 plates races by "being smart." Jaime knows when too shoot your shot, Jimmie just rides around and survives. In 06 Jimmie shoot his shot when he needed too, now he just rides around. And yes Jimmie doesn't beat himself, or if does Chad gets on his case. Or the other way around. 76. petty43 posted: 03.01.2010 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) kit every good crew chief worth his salt, has cheated in cup going back to the man himself smokey yunick. that does not make knaus a bad CC. He is just as good now and as innovative, probably more so, than rick was. Hell ask rick he will tell you that himself. Chad has a much smaller box to work in now than rick did in 95 thru 98 with jeff, rick also had a better driver. Quit acting like just because you have been a nascar fan since 1995 that you have seen and know it all. hell these younger fans on here know just as much. 77. Pork Rind posted: 03.01.2010 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carrol Shelby being grand marshal and having the race named in his honor was fine, but having Kim Kardashian as co-grand marshal was sad. She didn't even know she was supposed to say "Gentlemen, start your engines!" She looks good, and that's all she can do good. 78. 12345Dude posted: 03.01.2010 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I kinda see Jimmie Johnson in the same vein as Tom Brady: he doesn't have to carry everything on his shoulders because he's surrounded by greatness. All he has to do is play not to lose. Like Brady's stats leading up to his first Super Bowl: two games with sub 200 passing yards and few passing touchdowns." I can't disagree more Kit. First off stats, and quarterback stats mean NOTHING. If you take that in mind Ben Rotheithberger is around the 18th best QB, starting. Brady had nothing around him. He has no, and let me repeat no receivers. I mean David Givins was his second guy. Guess what he did after Brady. He had an average D, and a great kicker. At running back he has Antonio Smith. Ever heard of him, I doubt it. And then he has a Corey Dillion. A guy that when he came to New England, only had one good year left. Tom Brady did not have anything good around him. Other than a kicker and a coach. I believe Jimmie Johnson is the most underrated racer in nascar. Yes the driver that has won 4 straight championships in the most underrated driver in nascar. If Jimmie has more emotions or personality, people would have given Jimmy a thousand times more credit for what he did. I don't care what equipment he has. He won 4 straight championships! Let me say that again 4 straight! And I still don't believe people give him his do, saying it was his equipment, or whatever. It wasn't it helped, but it was Jimmie. Jimmie will go down in the history books, as one of the best racers. And the most focused racer of all time. 79. tom brady's mouthpiece says to kit posted: 03.01.2010 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) STOP COMPARING STOCK CAR DRIVERS TO FOOTBALL PLAYERS, YOU DUMBASSS. I think mark Martin is the Robert Deniro of nascar, and Jeff Gordon is the Paul McCartney of Nascar. See how stupid that is, Football and Nascar have apsolutely nothing in common outside of sportscenter and Joe Gibbs. Why the hell would you even make that comparision, if you want to compare JJ to a F1 driver or a past stock car driver that would be much more intelligent. 80. b4il3y posted: 03.01.2010 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First of all..let me remind all of you something...go look at the stats for some of the best drivers of the past 30 years...and see how long it took them to win a race or even become competitive (Jarrett, Rusty, Martin, etc). The reason you guys aren't patient with a new driver is your spoiled by the "Jeff Gordon/Stewart/Johnson" syndrome off thinking a driver has to win right off the bat. How long did it take some of these guys to win? A while... so those of you tearing up Ragan, Steve Wallace, Brad, and others..remember how hard this is for someone to do. 81. Watto posted: 03.01.2010 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just remember 10 years ago, jimmie drove his cars almost into the stands at watkins. NASCAR is no longer about drivers, races are won and lossed in the shop." dude, Jimmie destroyed the T1 barrier at Glen because he had NO BRAKES. What was he supposed to do except put it in the softest barrier possibly? Also, the 92 that Jimmie drove in the Busch series was pretty much a new team with a rookie driver. Todd Bodine, who was already a series veteran, hopped in the 92 when Johnson left and mustered similar stats with a worse average finish. 82. Mike posted: 03.01.2010 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The reason you guys aren't patient with a new driver is your spoiled by the "Jeff Gordon/Stewart/Johnson" syndrome off thinking a driver has to win right off the bat. How long did it take some of these guys to win? A while... so those of you tearing up Ragan, Steve Wallace, Brad, and others..remember how hard this is for someone to do." A lot of things in the sport has changed in the past 30 years. Young drivers are expected to perform right off the bat, and if they don't your gone. That's the way it is in today's sport. A lot of that has to do with the bigger influence of corporate sponsors. 83. Mike posted: 03.01.2010 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Nationwide series isn't an indicator to how a driver is going to do in Cup. Jimmie Johnson is a perfect example of that. For all we know Steven Wallace could come into cup and become one of the greatest cup drivers ever. Of course I doubt that will happen, but you never know. 84. Ryan posted: 03.01.2010 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I totally agree 12345Dude. Brady never had anything. If you didn't follow the team well I bet you couldn't name three of their receivers from their three super bowl teams. Troy Brown, Givens, Branch, Fauria, Graham, Patten? Puhhhlease!!! And you are so right about the running backs. And when he finally got some good receivers you seen what happened. He broke the TD record and was a miracle drive away from being 19-0 (I'm a Giants fan by the way). Brady is the best QB of his generation if the not the best of all time because of the way he has won with so little, sorry Peyton and sorry Big Ben! 85. petty43 posted: 03.01.2010 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) really, really, we still have to have the "Is Jimmie Johnson a good driver debate"? If you think Jimmie is not one of the 10 best drivers ever, take your right hand and stick it in your arse, and gently remove your head. there that's better. Now I can have a discussion with you. Here are some of jimmie's strengths 1. no one is better at telling his CC what the car is doing, what the car needs, and how the car reacted to a change. 2. no one adjusts to a set up change quicker, five laps after an adjustment and his lap times will start to average out or get better than the fields. 3. pit entry and exit, simply never makes a mistake. 4. JJ is probably the best driver ever on intermediates, there is not one track between 1.5 and 2.0 miles where he struggles, including darlington. 5. he can race hard and pickup spots in a short run or rattle off great lap times and race the track, in other words, he is not a one-dimensional talent like kahne who has to always run the high line. jimmie can work a car anywhere. 6. restarts and he gets lot of practice because he leads a shitload of laps. 7. Racing and working with teammates. How many times has he beat a teammate, and yet they all like him. 8. when was the last time you saw Jimmie wreck someone and it was HIS fault. 9. When was the last time you saw Jimmie wreck himself. 10. qualifying and practice, that guy can tell his team what the car is doing and what he needs quickly and without a lot of practice, get the car off the track, quickly figure where to adjust and get it in the garage and adjust. And he averaged an 8th place start last year. 11. how well does this guy deal with pressure, he handles tough spots better than anyone, really he should draw more comparsions to pearson for his on track demeanor. 12. car control, he is just as good as kyle and tony, people don't want to recognize this because they want to believe he has a weakness. so here as i see it are his weaknesses 1. fuel runs, clearly his achilles heal cost him both michigan races last year although, this is somewhat beyond his control, hendrick cars dont make the mileage of some others. 2. road courses? he averages a 15th place for his career at the 2 RC's. and has a better average than Biffle, Kahne, Junior, Newman, Harvick, Kenseth, and Jeff Burton. Dale Jarret was a bad road Racer. Jimmie is not bad but there is room to improve. 3. Bristol, he stinks here, but it does not help that there are about 5 other drivers right now that are among the best ever at that track. 4. umm uh personality, it is sad that this even comes up, if you want personality turn your TV right now to USA network and watch those roided up freaks give a good interview, otherwise i suggest you become a JPM fan, he will give you a controversial interview or two. 5. Burnouts there you have it folks. not much support for the Jimmie sucks argument there but people gotta hate because junior sucks and Gordon is washed up. Jimmie is not my favorite either, but at least i can see true greatness when it is there to be enjoyed. everyone critisizes the 48 for treating the first 26 races like tests, so guess what they will do this year, win like 6 to 8 of the first 26 and then win another 4 in the chase and win five titles in a row, regardless of the point system you use, then what you gonna say? 86. triviaman posted: 03.01.2010 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) quick name the driver that won 29 races, with two titles and two runnerup finishes, including one by 16 points in a four year span? 87. Bronco posted: 03.02.2010 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was the third straight race that Casey Mears and Keyed Up Motorsports have missed. They are not a start and park team so it stinks to see them go home while the start and parkers continue to haul away their undeserved loot. If NASCAR isn't going to ban start and parkers completely, I would like to see them at least revise their qualifying procedure and first qualify GOGH cars that intend to run the whole race (Papis, Elliott, Labonte, Sorenson) and let the start and parkers fight it out for the remaining spots. I find it hilarious that JPM throws Jamie Mac under the bus for a simple mistake. Last year he dumped Jamie at Bristol and got loose under Carl at Texas but they didn't lash out at him. 88. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.02.2010 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, I see you on that JPM deal. It was clearly obvious that Jamie got loose, and didn't try to wreck Juan Pablo, but unless what Juan Pablo said was in the heat of the moment, his comments were completely off base. He is massively talented, but he needs to think with his head every now and again. 89. The Zeusian posted: 03.02.2010 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Prism Motorsports went the distance after their car got impounded by NASCAR. Is this changing of the tides??? 90. RLewis9 posted: 03.02.2010 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Prism still start and parked the 55 of Michael McDowell. I think NASCAR told Parksons that they can't start and park two cars. I'm sure they don't mind one team doing it because of how tough it is to race without a sponsor, but when a raceteam shows up with two cars starting and parking it gets suspicious. 91. Baker posted: 03.02.2010 - 8:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watto: Baker- domination has never ruined any sport ever. Did the Chicago Bulls with Michael Jordan ruin basketball? How about the Lakers? How about Dale Earnhardt? How about Jeff Gordon? Did either of those two kill NASCAR? Absolutely not. Sit back and enjoy the history being made, because it is damn impressive. I still have my drivers that I root for and I'll keep watching. Don't you tell me what to do. 92. Frank posted: 03.02.2010 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) =8. when was the last time you saw Jimmie wreck someone and it was HIS fault.= 2009 Sonoma =9. When was the last time you saw Jimmie wreck himself.= 2009 Vegas Other comments on another brilliant loose 24 to 48 will come later. 93. Anonymous posted: 03.02.2010 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Downfall of Jeff Gordon: 1. Jimmie Johnson 2. The Chase 3. Pit Crew 4. What If? (He would have been a 6-time Champion) 5. Bad Calls (Like changing two tires) 6. The 2005 Season 7. Paint Schemes 8. Divorce of his first wife 9. Ray Evernham leaving him 10. Jeff Mendeering, the only crew chief in which he never won with. The guy who took over Steve Latarte when he and Kanus were suspended in 2007. Should have won the race all the way!! Feel bad for Gordon, worst moment ever in my 8 years of watching NASCAR. I was disgusted!! On a positive note, at last!!! Dave Blaney ran the whole race!! 94. Frank posted: 03.02.2010 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous, even worse than Martinsville-1-07? 95. Anonymous posted: 03.02.2010 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After reading the comments, I think the one that I wrote about the downfall was too harsh. I apologize. 96. Baker posted: 03.02.2010 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #91 GTFO don't try to be cool and post as me. Say all you want people, but F1 and IRL are hurting and can never compete with the big time sports for a reason. Nascar is headed down that same path and sooner than you think everyone will be watching Football, Basketball, Baseball, College Sports, Dirt Track Racing and even Hockey over Nascar's garbage. 97. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.02.2010 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Montoya chooses to rip his teammate on TV after he ended up in the garage after contact with McMurray, while at Texas last year, he got loose and spun Carl Edwards and said it was Edwards' fault for racing too close to him. Man, I hate this guy." Exactly. He suffers from Kryle Busch Syndrome. He thinks the rest of the drivers owe him something. Not bad for a guy with ONE Cup win in a little over 3 years and the most epic choke of the last 10 years (yeah, I'm still getting mileage out of Indy 2009, sue me). They will never find a good teammate for JPM because it would have to be one that would just roll over for him. I think he sees NASCAR like F1 where there is an "A team" and a "B team", like that guy whose name I can't remember who was about to win that F1 race with his teammate, Michael Schumaker, behind him in second. HE PULLED OVER AND LET SCHUMAKER WIN! This ain't F1 JPM, and situations like that are why I put zero emphasis on any driver's F1 stats. 98. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.02.2010 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are my thoughts on Jimmie Johnson: As I've said before, I am not a fan of JJ, and I am really tired of watching him win, but I give him his due. He is a GREAT stock car driver. Yes, driving for HMS and Chad Knaus has inflated his win totals, allowing him to show his full potential in a way that few others have been able to, but he still puts the numbers up. I don't think just anyone could do what he is doing. First of all, he keeps his cool when things don't go his way or the car starts to lose the handle. He just tells the crew what it is doing, and waits for the next pit stop for him to fix it. Right away, we have eliminated the Busch Brothers, Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, Robby Gordon, Denny Hamlin, and JPM from "put them in the #48 car and they'll win 50 races and 4 titles in a row too" category. Secondly, he doesn't make bone headed blunders at the worst possible times the way some other do. This eliminates Greg Biffle, Carl Edwards, Kevin Harvick, JPM, Dale Mears, and Kyle Busch. (Yes, I'll be eliminating some drivers more than once). Thirdly, he knows when to be aggressive and how to be when the time calls for it. This eliminates Mark Martin and Jeff Burton. Fourthly, he doesn't waste his time going after pointless crap like Nationwide titles as a Cup regular (wow, how impressive) or all the NWide companion races. His only racing focus is Cup. This eliminates Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, Greg Biffle, Kevin Harvick, Clint Bowyer. And most of all, he is simply talented. Yes he has a few weaknesses, but no driver has ever been good everywhere. He is probably the best at the most places of anyone outside of Gordon and Stewart. This eliminates most of the rest. Yes he is winless at Bristol, but he has a ton of wins at Martinsville, Richmond, Phoenix and high banked Dover. So he can handle the smaller tracks, he just has trouble with that particular one. 99. Talon64 posted: 03.02.2010 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "(yeah, I'm still getting mileage out of Indy 2009, sue me)" My lawyers will be getting in touch with yours shortly. :P Jimmie's dominance and the comeback of RCR could come screeching to a halt at Martinsville since it looks like that's where NASCAR is going to replace the wing with the spoiler. After all when NASCAR went to the COT in the first place it put a definite end to HMS's domina... oh wait 100. Bronco posted: 03.02.2010 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think he sees NASCAR like F1 where there is an "A team" and a "B team", like that guy whose name I can't remember who was about to win that F1 race with his teammate, Michael Schumaker, behind him in second." Rubens Barrichello, at the 2002 Austrian GP. "Fourthly, he doesn't waste his time going after pointless crap like Nationwide titles as a Cup regular (wow, how impressive) or all the NWide companion races. His only racing focus is Cup. This eliminates Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, Greg Biffle, Kevin Harvick, Clint Bowyer." You forgot to add Krashalotski and Kenseth to that list, although it looks like he won't be in the series this year because of sponsorship. 101. Cooper posted: 03.02.2010 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) dude, Jimmie destroyed the T1 barrier at Glen because he had NO BRAKES. What was he supposed to do except put it in the softest barrier possibly? Yeah that was stupid of me to say. I'm just angry that he can kick ass, and get away with it. No one races jimmie really hard, and i think if you race jimmie hard, you can weaken him. The only time i seen Jimmie Johnson "off his game" was in 2003 when sterling spun him at vegas. Johnson was pissed, and followed that race up with 32nd and 27th place finishes. Jimmie then wrecked sterling at darlington. That is the only time, Jimmie was rattled by another driver. Please somebody stop johnson immediately. 102. petty43 posted: 03.02.2010 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cooper i dont think that approach works with jimmie any more, and besides how can anyone race him "hard" when they can't catch up to him? o and triviaman the answer is jimmie from 06 to 09 under the old points system. 103. Smokefan05 posted: 03.02.2010 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "After all when NASCAR went to the COT in the first place it put a definite end to HMS's domina... oh wait" There is a reason why THAT didn't happen, RH testied the COT so much that he had a leg up on everyone else. (until NASCAR banned testing that is) 104. RR posted: 03.02.2010 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " This ain't F1 JPM, and situations like that are why I put zero emphasis on any driver's F1 stats." Well, that was really a form of points racing, so I guess NASCAR stats are irrelevant as well. McMurray apologized, Montoya accepted, they've both moved on. It's the tabloidish NASCAR writers that make it a big deal.JPM's more pissed at the fact that he's had two bad races through no fault of his own. "the most epic choke of the last 10 years " Please, that wasn't even the biggest choke of 2009 (that award goes to Elliot Sadler at Daytona). "but F1 and IRL are hurting" F1's the third most popular sport in the world. It is by no means hurting. 105. Smokefan05 posted: 03.02.2010 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "F1's the third most popular sport in the world. It is by no means hurting." While i agree with that but sometimes (putting it kindly) that F1 can't put on a race that is worth a darn. BTW this is from someone who watched it for 10 years. Too each their own i guess. 106. Ryan posted: 03.02.2010 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I agree. I remember watching the race Barichello gave to Shumacher because of team orders. That was crap. It's not like we haven't seen "team orders" in Nascar either. However, at the podium Shu gave Rubens the winners trophy. Germany has a lot to be proud of. Quite possibly the two greatest drivers in motorsports history has German descent... Earnhardt and Shu "F1's the third most popular sport in the world. It is by no means hurting." You're so right. If people only knew how much money and exposure over seas was brought into F1 each year. Shu was the world's richest athlete at one time in Forbes. He made 80 million dollars in one year. Ferrari and Marlbaro would give him a million just to wear their hats. 107. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.02.2010 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Please, that wasn't even the biggest choke of 2009 (that award goes to Elliot Sadler at Daytona)." I wouldn't call that a "choke", that is just Elliott doing what Elliott does, a bad job of driving. He didn't dominate that race like JPM did at Indy, he only inherited the lead by staying out on one of the cautions. Yes it was pretty lame to not even attempt a block with rain coming any second, but Elliott has had one lame ass career. JPM simply shot himself square in the foot. It was in his grasp easily, and he dropped it. Elliott was hanging on for dear life cause he isn't any good. 108. Bronco posted: 03.02.2010 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Please, that wasn't even the biggest choke of 2009 (that award goes to Elliot Sadler at Daytona)." No, the biggest choke of 2009 BY FAR goes to Marcos Ambrose at Montreal. Up until the final lap he had driven flawlessly and dominated the race for the third straight year, he had survived the messy combination of rain + double file restarts and had the race won until he hopped the curb on the final turn and literally gift wrapped the win for Carl Edwards. Sadler not blocking at Daytona, JPM speeding at Indy, Stewart's team not doing better in the cha$e, nothing compares to Ambrose's screwup at Montreal. Montreal was easily the best Nationwide race of 2009, I hope the Road America event is like that. 109. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.02.2010 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "My lawyers will be getting in touch with yours shortly. :P" lol "No, the biggest choke of 2009 BY FAR goes to Marcos Ambrose at Montreal." That was a big choke, no doubt. But I still say JPM's was bigger for two reasons. First of all, Carl Edwards was hounding Marcos while JPM was in his own zip code. Secondly, that was an NWide race while JPM choked in the second most prestigious (and undoubtably the most boring) Cup race of the year. 110. RR posted: 03.02.2010 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) See, here's why I think Sadler's was a "choke". He goes to Evernham in 2006 with great expectations, and to try and revive his stagnant career. Instead he continues to greatly underperform, to the point that the new management tries to dump him, and Sadler has to sue to keep his job. Even after he keeps his seat, his reputation is almost irretrievably destroyed. If he wins the 500, he instantly regains what he lost that offseason, and it would at the very least give him a boost of confidence and a resume booster going forward. But what does he do? He tells his team he's going to lose WHILE HE'S STILL LEADING! He expected to lose! If that isn't a choke, I don't know what is. While Montoya recovered from his blunder to make the Chase and run competitively for the rest of the year, Sadler continues to wallow in mediocrity. "Montreal was easily the best Nationwide race of 2009" Really? I thought it was atrocious. The endless cautions totally disrupted the flow of the race. There were so many wrecks; it was hard to watch at times. At least there were some new names in the field. 111. Bronco posted: 03.02.2010 - 11:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "First of all, Carl Edwards was hounding Marcos while JPM was in his own zip code." Carl hounding Marcos was no excuse for him to slip up. I'm sure Marcos has been hounded plenty of times when he drove V8 Supercars. "Really? I thought it was atrocious. The endless cautions totally disrupted the flow of the race. There were so many wrecks; it was hard to watch at times. At least there were some new names in the field." It was a hell of a lot better than watching Shrub dominate at Charlotte or Texas yet again, I can tell you that. Watching all those drivers slip and slide in the rain was downright hilarious, so too was how Jean Francois Dumoulin finished 7th in a car that was nearly destroyed, and Steve Wallace getting shoved into the grass and taking out another 5 cars like a bowling ball, and Shrub's crew making a tape face on his left front fender. 112. Anonymous posted: 03.03.2010 - 2:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the Vortex Theory 500 could also be called the Golden Horseshoe 500 113. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.03.2010 - 2:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That Montreal race proved that the double file restarts do not work on road courses in the rain. If it wasn't Steve Wallace that was spinning out and crashing someone, it was somebody else that was doing it. Thats why some of the drivers, like Marcos Ambrose performed quite well in those conditions late, and it helped that they were in the front. 114. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.03.2010 - 10:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those are good points RR. That is why I briefly called him SADler before simply forgetting that he even existed outside of his TV duties. He has had a sad career with the most easily shakable confidence that I have ever seen. I guess I just don't expect much from him, so I didn't really think of it as a "choke", but I agree with all of your points. You are leading the Daytona 500, rain is inevitable, you should be pumped. Instead he is saying "Oh boy, my luck is bad, I'm gonna lose somehow". So I definitely see your point. Bronco, I am not disputing that it was a choke in Montreal. For a premier road racer like Marcos to slip up and lose to a marginal road racer like Carl is a choke. But the fact is he still had Carl all over his ass. All JPM had on his ass at Indy was 5 seconds of empty racetrack. So, in my opinion, it was a bigger choke. 115. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.03.2010 - 10:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think the Vortex Theory 500 could also be called the Golden Horseshoe 500" How about the "Harvick Shitting The Bed In His Hometown Then Claiming The Defending Four Time Champ With Nearly 50 Victories in Eight Years Is Just Lucky 500"? Or is that too long? 116. 12345Dude posted: 03.03.2010 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But right after he said that about Jimmie he covered it up and apologized. I don't think he meant to say it, I think it slipped out. 117. Kit posted: 03.03.2010 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It may just be that Sadler was only supposed to have a Cup career that lasted a few seasons, much like how a running back only lasts a few seasons. If he left Cup after 2005 or 2006 nobody would really speak ill will about him. He's a good example of why top 10s are important. Even if you can't win a race, as long as you can score quite a few top 10s, you won't get a lot of flak, especially if you can win another race eventually. "While Montoya recovered from his blunder to make the Chase and run competitively for the rest of the year, Sadler continues to wallow in mediocrity." Even though RR does have a solid point about Sadler, it's funny how he has to throw a bone to Montoya while making his point. Montoya didn't recover from his blunder... he would have had to win a race last year to do that. He had quite a few top 5s in the Chase last year but also quite a few finishes outside the top 15, including a few outside the top 35. "McMurray apologized, Montoya accepted, they've both moved on. It's the tabloidish NASCAR writers that make it a big deal.JPM's more pissed at the fact that he's had two bad races through no fault of his own." The problem is, JPM is good for at least two or three of these incidents a year. If they are making it a big deal, it's partly because he keeps feeding them. "First of all, he keeps his cool when things don't go his way or the car starts to lose the handle. He just tells the crew what it is doing, and waits for the next pit stop for him to fix it. Right away, we have eliminated the Busch Brothers, Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, Robby Gordon, Denny Hamlin, and JPM from "put them in the #48 car and they'll win 50 races and 4 titles in a row too" category." I agree but I still say he's a 6th to 10th place driver from a raw talent stand point who's riding on a golden paved road of a team. The comparisons you mentioned don't necessarily make him great, it just shows how flawed so many of the other drivers are. Compared to drivers from the 80s and 90s, this is easily the most flawed group. I've never seen so many drivers with emotional issues. He's probably one of the most level-headed, emotionally balanced driver out there (Kasey Kahne and Matt Kenseth are also) but for a driver with 50 wins, I really don't see him in the same league as Tim Richmond. Funny thing is, Hendrick is such a stout team now that he doesn't need a driver on the same level as Tim Richmond, especially one with all the issues Richmond had. He just needs a driver who's very good and can stay level-headed. Johnson fits the bill. 118. leothedrummer posted: 03.04.2010 - 4:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Montreal was easily the best Nationwide race of 2009" It's obvious that you don't watch much other racing besides NASCAR, or if you do, you haven't seen many wet races. The '09 Montreal race was an improvement from the abysmal '08 race, but it was still a joke in the grand scheme of things. Instead of making it up as they go, perhaps NASCAR should think of paying attention to the countless other championships around the world that have been road racing (and in the rain) since motor racing started. Take notes NASCAR: Local yellows. You don't need to throw a caution because some of the kitty litter has been kicked up onto the track. Same goes for a car parked off the racing line. Proper rain equipement. You wouldn't drive your road car at 60mph in a downpour with no headlights, tailights, windscreen wipers of demisters, would you? So how can you expect these boys to do it at 160? At the very minimum, all road course cars should be fitty with a high-intesitiy LED rain light, which at least gives the cars behind an idea of where the next car is on the track. Also, give them PROPER windscreen wipers. I'm sure the no-name wipers you get at Autobarn (or whatever the hell it is in America) for $10 would work 10 times better than the little imitation wipers they use now. And they need to be permanently fixed, not added on during a pit stop. Which brings me to my final point: DO NOT CALL A CAUTION WHEN IT RAINS. Predicting the rain and when to switch tires is one of the most exciting parts of a wet weather road race. Watching the different strategies play out as drivers try to gauge the amount of grip available while crew chiefs try to anticipate the exact moment the rain will come adds a whole new dimension to the racing. Especially when it's only a little bit greasy and you have half the field on wets while the others stay on slicks. Great fun. I want to see them race in the rain in the Cup series as well, but god, please don't make it as painful as the previous attempts. You got a long way to go NASCAR. 119. Frank posted: 03.04.2010 - 7:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, I completely agree with your opinion about the biggest choke. After that moment I started to dislike Edwards more. Remember, he crashed GrandAm car he shared with Marcos on FORMATION lap! Including Road America is the best schedule related news along with same start times. =I'm sure Marcos has been hounded plenty of times when he drove V8 Supercars.= Plenty! The most memorable of course is 2005 Bathrust when Greg Murphy wrecked him and caused big one on the way to the top of mountain. I also want to see Cup racing in rain but NEVER such a shame like at Montreal where it took 40 minutes to "wear" cars. It was about 3am in Moscow and I decided to go sleep, pretty sure that Marcos will won... Now some notes about Cup race. In addition to our cool alternative race names let me call this one Two-Tired Gambling 400. Think lots of us way too tired with Gordon's inability to do something with Johnson except loose to him. Jeff never understood that he has more authority than his crew-chief. Remember how Kurt won Bristol 6 years ago when he denied Fennig's call and stayed out on worn tyres at OLD Bristol againt Rusty. Funny that you can not go to the pits by your will only but can't command to pit-crew change 4 tyres but did we hear any argue from the driver of #24? Now because every next victory will be equal Jeff's record with Cale, DW and Bobby I feel like I want him not win a race anymore. Yes, I like to witness history but JJ did his own history quite well. Of couse, all of his title records must be with red mark "Chase Era" but I don't think he couldn't won titles under Old system. Probably not 4-plus-in-a-row but 2 - very likely. Knaus is the smartest, he can adapt to any system. Ironic, but Chase system works against #48 in all-time records because he can't prove his titles under 30+ round season... 120. triviaman posted: 03.04.2010 - 9:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) hey leo is there a chance you like F1 because you should check that section on this site you will find your own kind there. dont even get me started on the clusterf^** that is F1 racing. 121. Frank posted: 03.04.2010 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't take seriously members of the crowd who regulary talks about popularity of F1. Ask them - popularity HERE? And among WHOM? It's obvious that f1 goes to Asia where wasn't any serious racing before and with huge promotion Bernie buys new markets where so-called fans are absolutely nuts in racing. 122. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.04.2010 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The comparisons you mentioned don't necessarily make him great, it just shows how flawed so many of the other drivers are. Compared to drivers from the 80s and 90s, this is easily the most flawed group. I've never seen so many drivers with emotional issues." I agree, especially with the last sentence. We hear so much about "this is the best, deepest crop of drivers ever" crap, but they fail to take into account that most of them have never had to really grow up (the Busch Bros, Tony, Harvick, JPM, Robby Gordon, Dale Mears, etc). The problem with today's drivers is the same problem we have seen in other sports. Today's drivers have mostly been coddled to be race car drivers from the moment they could grip a steering wheel. They see it as their birthright to a) be in Cup Racing b) win 90% of the races they enter like they did growing up cause they had the most money and c) have everyone roll over for them. And plus, with all the money they are getting, they are getting a lot of hangers-on that kiss their ass every second, telling them they are the best thing ever, so they can stay in that driver's circle and get a piece of the pie. And with the obscene salaries they are making, they pretty much get to call the shots. Look at Harvick. Richard Childress wanted to split him and Todd Berrier up almost two years before it actually happened, but Kevin refused, so it didn't happen until it became obvious Harvick had no interest in being a part of RCR's long term future anymore. Now he has a new crew chief, and he hasn't looked this good since 2006. So they get paid insane amounts of money, get to fly into races on their top of the line private jets with their smoking hot girlfriends (who wouldn't be caught dead with them if they weren't rich), walk into the garage and get their asses kissed by all their PR reps and sponsor reps, do pretty much whatever they want with the car, then go to their million dollar motor homes. Trust me, I don't have JJ on my Mount Rushmore of great rivers. In fact, there are drivers with many less wins that I regard much higher, like Alan Kulwicki (anyone besides me completely disgusted that the GoDaddy Girl is driving the #7 car?). But at least he hasn't let it go to his head like most of his contemporaries, and for that I respect him. 123. Anonymous posted: 03.04.2010 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is no way that Alan Kulwicki was a better driver than Jimmie Johnson. Even if we don't don't go by wins and take a stat that Kulwicki was good at like finishing in the top ten with an inferior car Jimmie still crushes him. Kulwicki = 75 top 10's in 208 starts (36%) Jimmie= 182 top 10's in 294 starts (62%) 124. Smokefan05 posted: 03.04.2010 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is a difference between Alan and Jimmie: Alan won in junk cars that he built himself (cuz he ran his own team) and won a Cup in them. Jimmie has won Cups in cars that are the best of the best. And Alan was winning races at a time when Earnhardt, Rusty, Ervin and others were in their prime. 125. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.04.2010 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alan Kulwicki built his team from the ground-up, like Smokefan said. If he'd driven the equivalent of the #48 today, he'd have definitely won multiple titles. Considering the equipment Jimmie has had since he started Cup, I'd say that he SHOULD have that many more top-10's than Kulwicki. Still, what Jimmie does is impressive. No doubt about it. Even if he does have the sport's best equipment and crew chief. A lot of other drivers would be in the same situation and throw away wins. 126. Ambrose_fan posted: 03.05.2010 - 1:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "hey leo is there a chance you like F1 because you should check that section on this site you will find your own kind there. dont even get me started on the clusterf^** that is F1 racing." Formula 1? Can't stand it. The only series I enjoy more than NASCAR is V8 Supercars (what with me being an Aussie and all). But don't just use the V8's as an example - take a look at the BTCC, DTM, WTCC, etc. I think if you actually watch something else you'll find that yes, the wet Montreal races were abymsmally handled by NASCAR. Once they all got going it was great, but wow, way to ruin a race. And believe me, F1 doesn't even factor into things with me. I occasionally watch Monza and Spa, but I haven't watched more than 3 of 4 races in a season since about 2004. 127. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.05.2010 - 6:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Leo... 1. NASCAR did do that at one time, calling local cautions at road courses, just somewhere down the line, they stopped doing it, I agree that is something they should start doing again. 2. I do believe the Nationwide cars have a light on the back of the car, not unless that changed recently, but consider this, NASCAR is still somewhat testing and experimenting. 3. That I think is more a part of the lack of experience with road course racing with many of these guys. If NASCAR raced on road courses for much more than 2 or 3 races a year, I'm sure that would not be happening. 128. Frank posted: 03.05.2010 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) =(anyone besides me completely disgusted that the GoDaddy Girl is driving the #7 car?)= It's not so weird untill she isn't at Cup. And hope never be here. Challenge in Danicamania between ESPN and FOX of course disgustingly. 129. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.05.2010 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Smokefan and RCRPenskeGuy. Alan built his team from the ground up and never had top level funding. JJ's Cup career has been a magic carpet ride. Again, I am impressed by his ability to maximize his potential, but compare his Busch record in mediocre cars to Alan's record in the Cup Series in mediocre equipment against what was truly the best crop ever (Dale, Rusty, Mark, Gant, Rudd, Bill, Davey, Darrell, Geoff, Ernie, etc). i don't mean to demean JJ's accomplishments, but what Alan did will never be replicated again. 130. RR posted: 03.05.2010 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "i don't mean to demean JJ's accomplishments, but what Alan did will never be replicated again." Yes, but times have changed. What Kulwicki did was pretty damn impressive, but there's no way he could do it in 2010 NASCAR. If you're going to put today's drivers up against that standard, it's really unfair. For that matter, it's unfair to compare any driver against Kulwicki, because he is an entirely different story. Elliott, Rudd, Bodine, and Waltrip all tried to duplicate Alan's success, and none had major success (actually Rudd and Waltrip won several races, but they didn't really compete for championships. Does that mean they're not as good in driving as Alan? Of course not, it means they didn't have the required skills to run a team like Alan did. And just because Alan built his own cars, does that mean the cars were inferior? Obviously they were too shitty, since he won a championship in them. It's not the driver's fault that things are they way they are in NASCAR today. Jimmie Johnson didn't choose to live race during the time when drivers are afforded so many luxuries and perks, or a time when the driver's championship is radically different than in the past 50+ years. But all that shit doesn't take away from the fact that he's one of the most decorated drivers in the history of NASCAR. That's what makes racing interesting to discuss and argue about. Unlike baseball, for instance, where stats can paint a pretty clear picture of how good a player was/is, racing involves so many factors that are hard to evaluate. I think nostalgia has a lot to with which era had the "greatest generation" of racers. There are people think nobody can measure up to Petty, Pearson, Yarborough and Allison. I'm sure 20 years from now, people will wax poetic about the days of Gordon, Johnson, Stewart, etc. 131. RR posted: 03.05.2010 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *weren't too shitty 132. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.05.2010 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those are good points RR. I respect your opinion on that. I'm sure it would be tough for AK to do it in 2010, but it was tough in 1992. You mentioned all those drivers with loaded resumes that tried to do what he did around the same time but failed. The last owner/driver to win a Winston Cup before Alan was Richard Petty in 1979, and he got handed that organization from his father who built it from the ground up. And his cars were definitely not "shitty", but he didn't have the funding to do the things to them that the other power teams were doing. And again, I can't emphasize this enough: I have nothing but the utmost respect for JJ. Yes he got handed the keys to the kingdom, but he has made the most of it. You have to remember, at first he was looked at as Gordon's wingman. But he raced his way out of Gordon's shadow, and has probably hurt Jeff's legacy to a small degree. Driving cars out of the same shop he has outperformed Gordon every year except 2007*, I'll give them a tie in 2002 (yeah Gordon finished one spot higher in the points, but they had the same amount of wins and JJ actually led the points late in the season as rookie, so I give them a tie for that year). Every other year its been JJ by quite a bit. Compare that to Kevin Harvick. There is an interview with him on ESPN's website where he is actually complaining about taking over Dale's ride after his death because he wanted to be his own person and have his own fans, even though he got to hop in incredible equipment and win a lot early. Hey genius, try winning more than 11 times in 9 seasons and you can make a name for yourself. Hell, compare those seasons to Dale's WORST 8 seasons at RCR plus HIS rookie season with Osterlund ('79, '84, '85, '88, '92, '96, '97, '98, '99) That's 17 wins with Dale + Richard at their worst. In their other nine season, they either finished 1st (6 times) or 2nd (3 times) in points every time. So I don't want to demean him to make Alan look better, I just think what Alan did was more impressive. *There is this widespread myth that "if it weren't for the cha$e, Gordon would have 6 championships and JJ only two". I think that is mostly crap, and here is why: First of all, I hate the cha$e with a white hot flaming passion, but those were the rules they were given, and everyone knew it. Yes, in 2004 Gordon had the most points under the traditional (and best) system, but JJ had a 230+ point lead by mid summer. They then blew 3 motors in a row. If those races actually meant something, is there any way in hell that happens? No way. So actually the cha$e COST Jimmie the 2004 title. 2007: Yes, that should have been Gordon's. 30 Top 10s? Are you kidding me? I can't stand Jeff, but I gotta say he got robbed big time. 2008: Carl wins the traditional way by sixteen points, but JJ just rode around at Homestead and stayed out of trouble cause under the money paying cha$e system, that's all he had to do. If he just finishes 8th, he wins under the old system. I have a feeling him and Chad coulda pulled that off. So by my count, JJ is still a 4 time champ, just not in a row ('04, '06, '08, and '09), and Jeff's "Drive For Five" is mercifully ended in 2007. But most importantly, Kurt Busch never wins the '04 title, and we never have to use the words "Kurt Busch" and "Champion" in the same sentence, or hear Kurt constantly refer to himself as a Cup Champion. Damn you Brian France, damn you to hell! 133. Bronco posted: 03.05.2010 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "2008: Carl wins the traditional way by sixteen points, but JJ just rode around at Homestead and stayed out of trouble cause under the money paying cha$e system, that's all he had to do. If he just finishes 8th, he wins under the old system. I have a feeling him and Chad coulda pulled that off." Unfortunately for all of us, we'll never know how that could have turned out. What could have been an epic end to the season, with a large point swing and the championship and race winner being decided on fuel mileage in the last few laps turned out to be a snoozer where the #48 qualified bad, rode around and finished 15th and collected the trophy and the check. It was especially bad for me since I'm a huge Carl Edwards fan, and it sucks that he hasn't won since then. 134. Smokefan05 posted: 03.05.2010 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So by my count, JJ is still a 4 time champ, just not in a row ('04, '06, '08, and '09)," I'm i understanding this right? So Tony wins 05 and Jeff wins 07 (by your count also) or does Tony not win it in 05? But too me JJ has 2 Cups (08,09). 06,07 don't count because they got caught cheating (if i had my way the 48 team wouldn't have been in the Chase those years.) But your point is understandable. I respectfully disagree he is a '4-time' champ. (now if he wins a road course, then i'll change my mind) 135. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.05.2010 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Smokefan, Tony definitely wins in '05. In fact, without the cha$e, he either clinches with TWO races still to go, or only has to start the second to last race. It's like Kenseth in '03 with more wins. Under the traditional points standings he won by 200+ points, and that's after doing like JJ did in '08 at Homestead: Doing the smart thing. The only titles it swings is 2004 (to JJ) and 2007 (to Gordon). The only one left out in the cold is Kurt Busch. After JJ got a huge points lead in mid summer in '04, and they realized they were safely in the cha$e and it didn't matter if their lead after 26 races was 1 point or 400 points, they began experimenting, and got burned. It didn't matter, but if he doesn't blow those 3 consecutive motors (or only blows one) he wins the traditional points easily. Instead everything gets reset, Kurt gets super hot at the right time, shows consistency for the only time in his career (unless you count 2001 and 2008 when he consistently sucked) and he wins a Cup championship. The only good thing about this is that Harvick really hates Kurt, and it had to burn him up watching Kurt win it all. And 2007 was highway robbery. Again, I don't like Jeff at all, but 6 wins and THIRTY Top 10s in 36 races? Holy shit. If that isn't your champion, something is wrong. But JJ got RED hot in the cha$e and won it. It is fitting for him cause he deserved it in '04, but Jeff didn't get his deserved championship. But I won't feel too bad for Jeff. Four Winston Cup titles, 80+ wins, 3 Daytona 500s, 4 Brickyard 400s, 4 CONSECUTIVE Southern 500s (he doesn't get enough credit for this), and he is the guy that grabbed the torch from Dale Earnhardt after a solid decade of being NASCAR's unquestioned alpha dog. I think that is his greatest accomplishment of all. The most important thing is that Cale's record isn't tied or broken (yet). 136. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.06.2010 - 2:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFan, that last sentence is WRONG That record has been broken, no matter how deep you want to put your head in the sand. All I have to say is, if there is no Chase, whats to say drivers take a much different approach to the season. Sure, its fun to say "What if?", but the reality is, Jimmie did something that Cale couldn't, and that was win four in a row. I honestly think with the way some "fans" are today, if Cale did his 3 in a row in the exact circumstance that he did it, with the points system at the time fresh and new, people would find a way to complain that Cale isn't no real 3 in a row champ, since he did it with a new points system, rather than an old one. 137. Anonymous posted: 03.06.2010 - 5:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon won under the old system in 04, not JJ. 138. Sean posted: 03.06.2010 - 1:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "6 wins and THIRTY Top 10s in 36 races? Holy shit. If that isn't your champion, something is wrong." Debatable. I feel (and I know many others feel) that NASCAR puts waaaay too much weight on consistency in determining the champion so that it ultimately is whoever has the most top ten finishes. Jimmie Johnson had 10 wins and 24 top 10s that year, and a lot of people would say that's a stronger season, because wins are more important. 30 top 10s was incredible and unprecedented for that short a season, yes, but 10 wins is quite impressive as well, and shouldn't it be about winning more? Johnson wasn't that inconsistent. Either was a worthy champion in 2007. I don't know, it's hard for me to care for a points system that denies Bill Elliott in 1985, Rusty Wallace in 1993, or Jeff Gordon in 1996, when those guys were overwhelmingly dominant those years, even though Waltrip, Earnhardt, and Labonte were more consistent. And the chase makes it worse because now it's simply about being the most consistent over ten races rather than an entire season, when I think consistency is overrated to begin with, and dominance is more important (within reason; no, I don't think somebody like Geoff Bodine in 1994, although dominant, should have been a title contender, but I do think he should have been in the top ten because I'd say he had better performance than say, Morgan Shepherd...) I agree Johnson wins in 2004 with no chase because he plays it safe after the second Pocono rather than blowing three straight engines, and he probably would have gotten his momentum back faster had he not had the pre-chase slump. I agree Stewart wins in 2005 by virtually every system. Even though Biffle had more wins, I'd still say Stewart was the most dominant AND the most consistent that year. 2006? I have no idea. Johnson and Kenseth had separated themselves so much and they were both treading water massively in the last third of the season, so I have no idea how the chase affects that one. I'll probably give it to Johnson just as you did because his pre-chase/early chase slump was strategic, while Kenseth's struggles didn't seem to be. 2007? Using the Latford Cup points system, yes, Jeff Gordon was robbed, but if you feel that consistency counts for way too much and winning should count for more, maybe not. 2008-2009? I do think Johnson would have won both of these titles, chase or no chase. So I guess I agree with you mostly, but I'm still not sold on 6 wins/30 top 10s being more impressive than 10 wins, even if it is rarer. Jeff Gordon's greatest accomplishment in my opinion? Six straight road course wins. That is mindboggling. If he had won the 1996 title that he deserved, then obviously it would be the four pre-chase championships in a row. 139. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.06.2010 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those are good points Sean. I agree with a lot of what you said. But 6 wins is nothing to sneeze at. It reminds me a lot of 1993 when Rusty had 10 wins but lost the championship to Dale who had 6. Yes, I agree winning should be weighted more, but consistency should count for something. You listed a perfect example with Geoff Bodine in 1994. Man it was fun watching him dominate races that year, all the while just waiting for him to blow one of those Hoosier tires (right Tony?) or his engine. When something finally did break, it was like Christmas. It was pretty much the bright spot of the season after the destined-to-be-classic Earnhardt/Irvan points battle fell apart and we all worried about Ernie pulling through. But back to the main point (sorry for the bunny trail) I just think 30 Top 10s in 36 races, to go along with 6 wins, 21 Top 5s (another Holy Shit!) and over 1000 laps led outshines even a 10 win season. But that is just my opinion, and I respect your's. When you break the double digit win barrier, that is most certainly a big deal. While talking about Gordon's greatest accomlishments (and I completely agree about the 6 consecutive road course wins), how about 3 CONSECUTIVE double digit win seasons? 40 wins in 4 years ('95-'98)? It is hard to pick which one is his greatest. "2006? I have no idea." I agree. Under the old system, JJ wins by FOUR points (Once again, Brian France: Damn you, damn you to Hell!!), so if it stays that close, who knows what adjustments each team would have made. That season ranks with the 1991 and 2002 seasons in the "Does Anybody Actually Want To Win This Thing Or Not?" category. JJ exploded out of the gate, then Kenseth took over during the summer, then it looked like Harvick might win it, then Burton looked to be a lock, then it was Kenseth again, then JJ closed out STRONG in what would become a recurring theme. If Tony didn't act like such a knucklehead that year, he makes the cha$e and probably runs away with it. 140. RR posted: 03.06.2010 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't buy the whole "he didn't win enough to be a champion" argument. It's not like a mid-pack driver somehow stumbles in to a championship. Looking at most championship winning seasons (especially pre-Chase), the driver usually is a contender for a win for the vast majority of the races. Seasons like Kenseth's 2003 and Labonte's 1996 are more the exception than the rule. And even then, they went by the same rules as everybody else. It annoys me when someone say that so-and-so "deserved" to win the championship in a certain year. No, they didn't, because they didn't score more as many points as the other guy did. And I think the word "consistency" is too often not used in the proper context. Consistency doesn't simply riding around making laps. It means that a guy is always found in the top five of the leaderboard at each and every race. If a driver consistently finishes in the top 5 more than somebody else, they have earned the right to be champion. I do believe that a driver should be richly rewarded for a win, but by the same token, a driver should be properly penalized for a bad finish or non finish. Stock car racing, with its marathon-like events, is not only about winning, but also surviving the entire race. Why should someone who drops out of several races be rewarded over someone who finishes every race? Championships are not only about the driver, but also the cars. 141. Kit posted: 03.06.2010 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DaleSrFan, that last sentence is WRONG That record has been broken, no matter how deep you want to put your head in the sand. All I have to say is, if there is no Chase, whats to say drivers take a much different approach to the season. Sure, its fun to say "What if?", but the reality is, Jimmie did something that Cale couldn't, and that was win four in a row. I honestly think with the way some "fans" are today, if Cale did his 3 in a row in the exact circumstance that he did it, with the points system at the time fresh and new, people would find a way to complain that Cale isn't no real 3 in a row champ, since he did it with a new points system, rather than an old one." Bullshit. Cale won three championships in a row with an entirely different points system in which drivers, crew chiefs, and teams strategies were totally different. They are now able to contain several outside variables which may affect finishes because the first 26 races don't mean as much anymore as they did under the old point system. A 36th place finish in the third race of the season? Who cares! Just stay in the top 12. But the same finish in the same race under the old points system? You may have given up the championship already. It's easier for a dominant team to stay in the top 12 after 26 races than it is to be competitive for a championship (usually within the top 5) after 26 races. Hell, there was really no point of Tony Stewart busting his ass to stay ahead of everyone last year because all the other cha$e contenders were all equal after 26 races. In other words, Tony Stewart did not need to be that competitive in 26 races. Which is something that should NEVER be said in auto racing, unless maybe you almost have the championship locked up with one race to go. The only thing Jimmie did that Cale couldn't is win four cha$e championships because the cha$e didn't exist in Cale's day and age. "I honestly think with the way some "fans" are today, if Cale did his 3 in a row in the exact circumstance that he did it, with the points system at the time fresh and new, people would find a way to complain that Cale isn't no real 3 in a row champ" It's funny how you are arguing against an opinion you think other people have (who probably don't really have) in order to make your argument. Personally, if the old points system was fresh and new today, I WOULDN'T be complaining. Why? BECAUSE I LIKED the old points system! I don't like the cha$e because it's an inferior system. So don't give me that crap about how people complain about something only because it's new. It goes a lot deeper than that. 142. Kit posted: 03.06.2010 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I think the word "consistency" is too often not used in the proper context. Consistency doesn't simply riding around making laps. It means that a guy is always found in the top five of the leaderboard at each and every race. If a driver consistently finishes in the top 5 more than somebody else, they have earned the right to be champion." I agree entirely, RR. Like you said, people throw around the word consistency like it doesn't mean being competitive. If you go back under the old points system, I'd imagine that most of the champions had the best average finish out of everyone. To me, Dale Earnhardt wasn't great because he won 76 races... he was great because he was a threat to win every single race he entered. That is consistency. "Seasons like Kenseth's 2003 and Labonte's 1996 are more the exception than the rule." Agreed. The 2003 season was boring from a championship standpoint but Kenseth deserved to win. His team could salvage good finishes out of what should have been very bad days. At one of the road courses he lost a tire, which should have killed his day. But he lost the tire as he was coming into pit road. 143. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.06.2010 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You wouldn't complain, but I can guarantee you lots of "fans" would if you put the exact circumstances that Cale won his championships, which was with a fresh new points system. You might not think that some people complain about someone doing something unprecedented when something new is introduced, but I think that is one of the big factors. I also wouldn't be surprised if these "fans" who complain and claim that Jimmie Johnson is a "phony 4 in a row champ", would not complain if it was their driver that did it. 144. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.06.2010 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really, all you have to do is look at Kurt Busch's 2004 season to show what a farce the cha$e is. 145. Spen posted: 03.06.2010 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that Johnson would have won '04. One little nit though; "Under the old system, JJ wins by FOUR points". Take away the new bonus points for winning a race, and Kenseth wins by one point. On the flip side, Johnson wins '08 by four points under the true system. (Take away Carl's 100-point penalty though, and things would have been interesting.) And without those bonus points, he'd have beaten Gordon by six points last year. Of course, all of this is purely academic, but still fun to think about. Incidentally, I agree with you completely about todays drivers. Kit: "If you go back under the old points system, I'd imagine that most of the champions had the best average finish out of everyone." Not always. 1990 and 2002 come to mind. Those bonus points for leading laps could mess thing up sometimes. (Actually, bonus points for leading a lap was the only thing I always disliked about the old system. I don't think someone should be rewarded for staying out under caution, or during pit cycles. If I had designed the Latford method, I'd maybe give five bonus points to the driver who led the most laps, and that's it.) Sean: "Jeff Gordon's greatest accomplishment in my opinion? Six straight road course wins." That's a big accomplishment, I agree, but I personally put a higher value on the four straight Southern 500 wins. Road racing has it's own unique skill set, and certainly not just anyone could win six straight, but I think Darlington's harder, since you're always in heavy traffic, in addition to having to know the track. At a road course, you're racing the track more that anything else. Martin-n-Rusty: "I honestly think with the way some "fans" are today, if Cale did his 3 in a row in the exact circumstance that he did it, with the points system at the time fresh and new, people would find a way to complain that Cale isn't no real 3 in a row champ" Just so you know, this is coming from someone who *was* a NASCAR fan in the mid-seventies. I never heard anyone complain about the Latford system. We were getting pretty used to the system changing constantly; heck it was the fourth different method in as many years! And it was obvious (to me, at least) that it was a much better one. In '74 we had the ridiculous system under which the championship was basically decided by the Daytona 500. After winning the 500, Petty could have had a "Michael Waltrip 2001" season, and still won the title. To his credit (and I rarely gave Petty much credit in those days) he still gave it his all for the whole year, but I still think he should have had to earn his championship. For the record, under the Latford system, Cale would have won the title (by nine points). Hard to say what would have happened, (being a Cale fan, I'm kind of baised.) but it sure would have been more interesting. '73 had an equally absurd format, where whoever completed the most miles wins the cup. While this system at least had the advantage of counting every race equally, it still would have created some highly undeserving champions. At least in '73, while Cale may have been robbed of the title, I can't deny that Benny had a really good year and was (almost) championship caliber. These days, with all the rules designed to keep people on the lead lap, we'd have David Ragan winning the title in '08. Obviously, this wasn't going to work. I didn't mind the system we had from 68-72 (at least, it always gave us the right champions), but personally, I don't like the idea of someone getting 50 points for winning one race, and 150 for another. Like the chase, it makes far too many races irrelevant. I was too young to really understand the points system we had in '67 on back. However, any system that says that Joe Weatherly won the title in '63 when Petty had a far better year by anyone's standards, obviously wasn't too good. So when '75 rolled around with it's new point system, I liked it from moment one. It treated every race equally, and forced drivers to compete week in and week out. Sure, the first year was boring, but with Cale, David, and Bobby not running the full schedule, it was obvious that we were in for another '71; Petty vs. no one. Heck, *Dave Marcis* ended up second in points. I liked Dave a lot, but that was a pretty good sign that there was no real compitition that year. Of all the full-timers, Benny Parsons was the only one with any hope of winning, and aside from his 500 win, he didn't have a particularly good year. "I also wouldn't be surprised if these "fans" who complain and claim that Jimmie Johnson is a "phony 4 in a row champ", would not complain if it was their driver that did it." Well, I probably wouldn't be complaining if it was Bill Elliott, (and if you put him with that team, it would be!) but even then, I'd still think it was a rather cheap way of winning a title. I thought that with Tony Stewart as well, and I like Tony a lot more than Johnson. 146. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.06.2010 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, I know about there being several different points systems in the late 60's-mid 70's, I get that, but I am saying if that situation happens today to Yarborough, im sure many "fans" would complain. 147. Smokefan05 posted: 03.07.2010 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I think the word "consistency" is too often not used in the proper context. Consistency doesn't simply riding around making laps. It means that a guy is always found in the top five of the leaderboard at each and every race. If a driver consistently finishes in the top 5 more than somebody else, they have earned the right to be champion." Agree about "that" word. It is used too often toward "who is champion." "I never heard anyone complain about the Latford system." Maybe that's because the Internet wasn't even around and fans were happy with what was going on. And you didn't have "monday morning QBs (insert name here)" that would question EVERY little thing that happens. But times back then were simple (not like today.) And conspircy theories were only in politics. So yeah. lol 148. Kit posted: 03.07.2010 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You wouldn't complain, but I can guarantee you lots of "fans" would if you put the exact circumstances that Cale won his championships, which was with a fresh new points system." You can't guarantee shit. You haven't polled anyone. You're just talking out of your ass. You're also ignoring the fact that the majority of the comments on this board directed against the cha$e format involve the actual specifics of the format, not that it's "new." Furthermore, you also fail to notice that the cha$e has been around for six years, so it's hardly new anymore. If you're going to make an argument, at least know what you're arguing against. All this "oh, people just complain because it's new" is lazy and shows you don't put in any effort. 149. Kit posted: 03.07.2010 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Not always. 1990 and 2002 come to mind. Those bonus points for leading laps could mess thing up sometimes." And that's exactly why I said MOST: "If you go back under the old points system, I'd imagine that MOST (emphasis mine) of the champions had the best average finish out of everyone." Even in 1990 and 2002, the champion still had close to the best average finish. In 1990, Mark Martin had an average finish of 6.6 while Earnhardt had 8.0. Earnhardt won simply through bonus points... a great example of why Martin is way too conservative of a driver. 150. Kit posted: 03.07.2010 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's a big accomplishment, I agree, but I personally put a higher value on the four straight Southern 500 wins. Road racing has it's own unique skill set, and certainly not just anyone could win six straight, but I think Darlington's harder, since you're always in heavy traffic, in addition to having to know the track. At a road course, you're racing the track more that anything else." I agree entirely, Spen. I think road courses are emphasized too much in stock car racing. JPM could probably win six road course victories... he has the skill level for it. But I sure don't see him ever winning four Darlington races. 151. Kit posted: 03.07.2010 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Maybe that's because the Internet wasn't even around and fans were happy with what was going on." People communicated long before the Internet. 152. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.07.2010 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kit, its human nature with most things. If it is new, or relatively new, people are going to hate on it, and if someone is dominating that they don't like, it just makes it worse. I don't want to degrade this to a name calling deal, I think its just my opinon that the relative newness is one big factor. I think the Chase is a decent idea, but it needs a few good ideas here and there for people to be able to swallow it easier. 153. Frank posted: 03.08.2010 - 3:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Being fan of Chase when started watching NASCAR (Dover in fall 2004) I realized that system doesn't work after 2006 when we could have more intense battle without Chase. Agree, it's hard to determine who could won that year. For 2004. Of course Kurt never won it under classic system but I think what he'd done in Chase is respectable because NA$CAR obviously wanted some of the HMS car won, especially after October's tragedy. Not sure about what happened at Atlanta but in Homestead Kurt really walked on the blade's edge - moment he lost a tyre and just missed the wall on pit entrance is unforgettable one! 154. RLB posted: 03.08.2010 - 3:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's most impressive accomplishment? winning the most races and the points title in the same year 4 times 95,97-98,01 Richard Petty had 4, 67,71,74-75 Dale Earnhardt 2 87,90 Jimmie Johnson 2 07,09 Cale Yarborough 2 77-78 Darrell Waltrip 2 81-82 Tim Flock 2 52,55 Buck Baker 2 56-57 David Pearson 2 66,68 Lee Petty 2 58-59 it seems that the only way Gordon can pull out a title is to win the most races, which is what he did in 2007 with back-back wins at Talladega and Charlotte with five races remaining tying Jimmie Johnson with 6 but Johnson won 4 straight and finished 7th to clinch probably his greatest title. 155. RLB posted: 03.08.2010 - 3:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon also was the winningest driver 5 straight years!! 1995-99 maybe Gordon will truly get the credit for the measure he has exibited in his career if he takes the crown this year. 156. Red posted: 03.08.2010 - 10:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It annoys me when someone say that so-and-so "deserved" to win the championship in a certain year. No, they didn't, because they didn't score more as many points as the other guy did." RR, I respect your opinions a great deal, but I totally disgaree with you on this one. My personal opinion is that points don't mean shit, for several reasons: 1) The point values assigned to each finishing position are, by definition, arbitrary. Some of y`all act as if the old 1975-2003 system was handed down directly from God, but it was really just scribbled on a napkin by a couple guys in a bar. 2) As a corollary to the first reason, winning a points title doesn't necessarily determine who the best driver/team was, it merely determines who scored the most points. Can you say with certainty that Kulwicki was more deserving than Elliott in 1992 just because he scored ten extra points? I don't think so. If Bill had finished 23rd in the Daytona 500 instead of 27th, then he would have scored the most points. Would that have suddenly made Bill more worthy of the title? Again, I don't think so. 3) The Latford system sometimes makes a departure from common sense. Driver A finishes 1st, 1st, 1st, 43rd, 43rd, 43rd, while Driver B finishes 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 37th, 37th, 37th. Even though Driver B scored more points, I guarantee you that every driver of the circuit (and his fans) would rather be Driver A. Personally, I prefer objective stats like wins, top fives, top tens, laps led, and poles over any points system. 157. jessie henry posted: 02.08.2011 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ok race 158. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #46 Terry Cook & #90 Casey Mears Out using fastest 43: #7 Robby Gordon & #26 Boris Said 159. Anthony posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Jeff Gordon won this race would his rating end up with 150? 160. Sky Warrior posted: 05.14.2014 - 4:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 4 years later and this one still stings as a Gordon fan 161. JeffGordon24FanForever posted: 10.24.2017 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One of the dumber pit calls I can remember. 162. Anthony posted: 03.05.2018 - 8:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Knowing Kevin Harvick's performance yesterday, Jeff Gordon would've easily earned a driver rating of 150 in this race had he won it. Something he never earned in his career. 163. Spen posted: 03.05.2018 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ignoring the fact that 69 of his wins came before the existence of driver ratings.... Seriously, he would certainly have a 150 at Dover 2001 and Sears Point 2004. Probably others I can't think of. 164. SweetRich posted: 02.21.2020 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Commentators For The Race Were Mike Joy, Larry McReynolds And Darrell Waltrip. The Pit Road Reporters Were Dick Berggren, Steve Byrnes, Matt Yocum And Krista Voda. 165. Bodyblower posted: 03.22.2020 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reed Sorenson and the 32 team withdrew. 166. Rich posted: 12.15.2020 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joining the race coverage were Chris Myers and Jeff Hammond in the Hollywood hotel. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: