|| *Comments on the 2010 Goody's Fast Pain Relief 500:* View the most recent comment <#91> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Anonymous posted: 03.29.2010 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) oh man i can't wait to see what kind of things people have to say about jeff gordon 2. potatosalad48 posted: 03.29.2010 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good job David Gilliland finishing 19th. 3. Anonymous posted: 03.29.2010 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordan is an immature cry baby because he was upset about getting knocked out of the lead with two laps to go. 4. Anonymous posted: 03.29.2010 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin had one of the best drives of recent memory. Kenseth was epic fail. Jr's pit crew sucks. Hornish finally finishes in the top 15 where he's ran all year. About all there is to say about this race. 5. RLewis9 posted: 03.29.2010 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This race was ran on Monday because of rain on Sunday. Denny Hamlin somehow won this race despite being the only car along with Kyle Busch to pit with 10 laps to go. Marcos Ambrose....11th. Wow, he spun and hit almost everyone out there and nearly got a top 10. Why in the world did Max Papis start and park? He's got sponsorship from Geico. I hope they really did lose their breaks and didn't trust an inexperienced Papis at Martinsville and didn't really start and park. There's no excuse for that crap when you have sponsorship from a big company. 6. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.29.2010 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the quality of racing today is one of the about 10 reasons why Martinsville should not lose a race next year. And wow, after all the spinning Ambrose finishes 11th 7. Rusty posted: 03.29.2010 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch had a real good car, but they screwed up twice. First not pitting early in the race when he was in 2nd, his tires fell off bad and he dropped back to 14th. Then when he finally made his way back up into the top 5, they had a loose wheel and had to pit under green. Dooming him for the day and giving him a 23rd place finish. The 2 team has had good cars every weekend. But they've only had good finishes to show for it in three of the races. 8. Cooper posted: 03.29.2010 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Best Race of the Season. Race felt like the Old NASCAR. Ambrose should have his 11th place finish revoked, for hitting everything but the pace car. 9. DaleJrFan18 posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One of the best finishes I've seen at Martinsville, period! Nuff said. 10. RLewis9 posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle has quietly finished in the top 10 every race this season. Not sure how he managed a 10th today, he was never near the front all day. 11. Bronco posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought for sure Hamlin's crew chief threw away the race by pitting from the lead, but Hamlin drove his ass off on the restarts and somehow made it work. It was still the wrong call to make as the race would have ended if Gordon had taken the white when Shrub spun, so Hamlin caught a big break. Paul Menard gets his sixth straight top 20 and lead lap finish and stays in a cha$e eligible spot. This is amazing considering his previous record, and that he is beating all his teammates by a lot. First time Johnson finishes outside the top 10 at Martinsville since the 2005 spring race. Amazingly, he didn't lead a lap today either. 12. BON GORDON posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Give Me A Shot Gun!!! I wanna kill Matt Kenseth! However, It's just short track racing and I didn't think Kenesth or Gordon didn't do anything wrong. I really really wish Gordon wouldv'e won. By the way Anonymous learn how to spell Gordon. If I was Gordon I would bitch and complain too. Dumb Hick. 13. Eric posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano's best finish of since his win rain shorten win at New Hampshire Motor Speedway. Jimmie Johnson finishes outside of the top 5 at Martinsville since the 2005 spring race. This is also Jimmie's worst finish here since he finished 9th in the spring 2003 race. 14. 18fan posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gibbs needs to do something about their crew chiefs. Kyle had his best race ever at Martinsville and Dave Rogers screws him up, puts him in the back, then he wrecks, and finishes 22nd and loses six positions in points. I felt bad for Burton, since he had the second best car and finished 20th. 15. Eric posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, You got 2 fact wrong about Jimmie Johnson at Martinsville. Jimmie didn't finished outside of the top 10 here in 2005 and Jimmie finished in the top 10 today. Jimmie Johnson finished 9th today. The last time Jimmie Johnson also finished outside the top 10 here was his first time at Martinsville in 2002. 16. Bronco posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You got 2 fact wrong about Jimmie Johnson at Martinsville. Jimmie didn't finished outside of the top 10 here in 2005 and Jimmie finished in the top 10 today." I meant top 5. 17. 18fan posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR shouldn't have thrown the caution when Burton crashed. Martin and McMurray hit the wall in the last 25 laps and they don't throw the caution, then Burton does the same thing and they throw the caution. Inconsistency at its best. 18. G14 posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great race, too bad i missed it because Direct TV decided to take a f***ing day off! I have never been this mad in my f***ing life. 19. LeoGuinaBR posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great race, great job of Denny Hamlin, counted with a little luck, but won the race so incredible. 20. Anonymous posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Great race, too bad i missed it because Direct TV decided to take a f***ing day off! I have never been this mad in my f***ing life." My Direct TV DVR recorded a total of 59 minutes combined of the IndyCar and NASCAR races. I like Hot Pass but I'm probably going with Dish when I get my own place. 21. 18fan posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard cost Jeff Gordon the race as Gordon had come off turn 4 about to take the white when Kyle was dumped by Menard. Menard actually drove into the middle like an idiot right after the restart, and Kyle could have either not turned down into the corner and lost 10 spots, or fought for the spot and get wrecked. He deserved a better finish than 22nd. 22. Talon64 posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin's improbable 9th career win makes it 5 straight seasons with a Cup win for Denny. It's his 4th career win at a short track and 4th win in Virginia (3 at Martinsville, 1 at Richmond). Joey Logano's 2nd place finish moves him up to 13th in the standings compared to 34th at this point last year. Excluding Daytona Joey's run well enough to finish in the top ten in every race this year and he deserved his lucky breaks to finish 2nd after his bad luck the last couple of races. Jeff Gordon's career long streaks at Martinsville continue thanks to his 3rd place finish: 11 straight top fives, 15 straight top tens and 9 straight races without a win. Newman's 6th top five in 14 Martinsville starts and 3rd straight top ten here is also his first top ten of the season. This is just Martin Truex Jr.'s 2nd top five and 3rd top ten in 25 short track starts. Last season it took him until the 35th race to get a top five. Vickers gets just his 2nd top ten in 11 starts at Martinsville and 4th top ten in 33 short track starts. Clint Bowyer's 7th is his 6th top ten in his last 7 Martinsville starts. Carl Edwards has back-to-back top tens for the first time since Kansas and Charlotte last October. Carl will make his 200th career Cup start at Phoenix in two weeks. Jimmie's streak of top fives at Martinsville ends at 9 and consecutive races led ends at 8. Jimmie led 1380 laps in the last 8 Martinsville races, averagin 172.5 a race. But Jimmie's streak of top tens stays alive at 16 in just 17 career starts. Greg Biffle is now the only driver to have finished in the top 10 in all the races this season. But he's finished 10th 3 times. Marcos Ambrose has 3 finishes of 14th or better including two 11ths, and 3 finishes of 33rd or worse this season including 2 DNF's. Keselowski's 12th place finish is better than Stremme finished in all of 2009 driving the #12 car. Hornish's 13th is far better than his previous best at Martinsville in 4 starts, 28th. Paul Menard's streak of top 20's to start the season is up to 6 and he hasn't finished worse than 18th. Kenseth looked like he was going to be an even bigger surprise winner than Jeff Gordon or Denny Hamlin until Jeff retaliated for Kenseth's first contact with Jeff which sent Kenseth back to 18th. It would've given Kenseth wins at all 3 short tracks on the schedule. David Gilliland and Kevin Conway swapped between the #38 and #37 so Gilliland could help the #37 stay in the top 35. Gilliland's 19th place lead lap finish definitely helped. BTW Kevin Conway finished 31st, 8 laps down in the #38. Thanks to 140 laps led at Martinsville Jeff Burton's already led more laps this season than in any of the 3 previous; 79 in 2007 (won once), 140 in 2008 (he won twice!) and 96 last season. But a right front going down very late in the race cost him a great shot at his 2nd Martinsville win. 23. cale_gale posted: 03.29.2010 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great runs by Martin Truex and Brian Vickers. I knew Truex was running in the top 10 for about the last half of the race but I never realized Vickers was even in the top 15. Brad Keselowski quietly finished 12th in front of his teammate Hornish. Truex and Vickers both scored their best Martinsville finishes to date and it is Truex's first top 5 driving for MWR. I was disappointed for Jeff Burton who looked like he had a car good enough to win before blowing a tire after making contact with Denny Hamlin while racing for the lead. Kyle Busch had a top 5 going before pitting with Hamlin with 10 laps to go and ends up getting wrecked by Paul Menard. Jimmie Johnson takes the points lead after Kenseth has that terrible Green-White-Checkered falling from 3rd to 18th. 24. Talon64 posted: 03.29.2010 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch took the biggest hit in the standings thanks to being wrecked by Paul Menard in the chaos of the closing laps of the race. He dropped from 10th to 16th but only 32 points out of 12th. AJ Allmendinger also dropped 5 spots to 26th, and Scott Speed down 3 spots to 21st. The bubble's starting to burst for Speed a bit. JPM moved down 3 spots but he's already 175 points out of 12th. What's worst about it is that he's run top 10 just about every race but his luck's been terrible. Kyle's JGR teammates Hamlin and Logano were among the biggest gainers, moving up 4 spots each to 15th and 13th respectively thanks to their 1-2 finish. Jeff Gordon moved up 4 spots to 7th and Newman up 4 spots to 22nd. 25. Timmy Quivy posted: 03.29.2010 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG probably overreacted, but I can't blame him in context. He should have won Vegas, he probably should have won here (not the final restart, Jeff had pretty much taken the white flag as the caution was being thrown). He's had top-five cars each of the first six races this year and he's had peanuts to show for it. I think that's the frustration you saw today. Joey Logano really impressed me today; the kid really might make the top twelve. 26. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2010 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I was supposed to be AT this race, but I had to practice drawing blood at the hospital today, so I didn't even get to watch it. All I can say is Martinsville rules. And if they take a date away and give it to that boring track in Kansas JUST BECAUSE THEY BUILT A CASINO NEXT TO IT, that is pretty frigging stupid. This is supposed to be a RACING series, the casino deal should have nothing to do with it. 27. Smokefan05 posted: 03.29.2010 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm missed the final 100 laps but i figured either Jeff Burton, Jeff Gordon or Denny Hamlin would win it. Atleast i'm glad JJ didn't win it. 28. Talon64 posted: 03.29.2010 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The call for the #11 and #18 to pit for tires that late was really risky but understandable. Denny and Kyle would've been screwed either way, they had enough of a lead over 3rd even on the caution laps that everyone would've done the opposite to get track position. Denny and Kyle staying out might've been less risky, at least for Denny. Hamlin had the best car of anyone by a mile at that point and if everyone else had pitted then some would've risked 2 tires so guys with 4 could've restarted around the same place Denny did. It's not often that the dominant guy needs luck to win and far less often that the dominant guy who needs luck to win isn't Jimmie Johnson but with all the times that Denny's dominated a race only to lose he more than deserved the breaks he got in this race. 29. Cfob posted: 03.29.2010 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the feud between Jeff Gordon and Matt Kenseth from a few seasons back isn't as over as we all thought. Very exciting finish, and I was pulling for Jeff to get the win. Nice to see some passion back in the Four-time Champion. Kurt Busch had a strong car most of the day, by far the strongest of the Penske bunch, but some bad luck and mistakes drop him in the running order. Looked like Jeff Burton had Hamlin, but some tough luck took him out of the picture. If not for the last caution, Brad Keselowski was in position for his first top 10 in the 12 car. However his 12th place finish is his best ever in the car, and as someone else mentioned, better than anything David Stremme ever did in that car. Kind of nice to see, seeing as the Northern Indiana / Michigan racing community has been fairly divided over those two drivers, as the Northern Indiana native Stremme was taken out of the ride for the Michigander Keselowski. 30. Lugnut18 posted: 03.29.2010 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard finishes 14th for his 3rd top-15 finish and 6th straight top-20 finish. Once again, menard is the highest finishing RPM car, and is now 115 points ahead of closest team mate Kasey Kahne. Menard had only four top-15's all last year and has already matched his season total of top-20's from last year. Next week menard will compete in the Nationwide race in Nashville. His last two races there (both in 2006) resulted in top-10 finishes. 31. RaceFanX posted: 03.29.2010 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First race after the spoiler replaced the wing on the CoT Denny wins in his last before surgery to fix his ACL issues 32. Talon64 posted: 03.29.2010 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff and Matt's comments about the incident here: http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/sprintcupseries/Matt_Kenseth_Jeff_Gordon_not_happy_after_beating_and_banging_on_final_lap_cost_them_both_a_win_at_Martinsville.html Kenseth: "Jeff is sneaky. Heâ??s good at that stuff. He comes away squeaky-clean all the time. Thatâ??s about the third time he took me out of a top-three finish. Iâ??m about tired of that." "I pretty much forgot about it for the last couple of years but he never gives me an inch. He wants me out of his way every time heâ??s faster, and I get out of his way every time heâ??s faster, but when it comes the other way around, he never wants to give anybody room back." "I guess it was dumb move on my part. I should have finished third or fourth, but I had an opportunity to go for the win." Gordon: "Weâ??ve had our runâ??ins and different things. The way he raced me today, I didnâ??t think was the way I would have raced him. Weâ??ve had our ups and our downs, but I feel like weâ??ve been past that." "I certainly didnâ??t feel like we had any issues. If somebody hits me, Iâ??m going to hit them. If he hit me, Iâ??m glad I did what I did on the back straightaway. If a guy gives you a cheap shot like that, he doesnâ??t deserve to win the race, in my opinion." Kenseth had every right to go for the win, it's short track racing! It sucked that Jeff took him out like that, it not only cost Kenseth a probable win but Jeff Gordon whatever shot he might've had of staying 2nd and getting Kenseth back how it matters: For the win! 33. Matt G posted: 03.29.2010 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with you 18fan when you say that Kyle Busch deserved better than a 22nd place finish. He drove by far the best race I've ever seen him drive at Martinsville. He took a car that was junk in the begining and patiently worked his way up to second place. I actually felt bad for him today. 34. 12345Dude posted: 03.29.2010 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow was that a race, wow. I'm still wondering why Hamlin and Busch pitted. And ford did not make a good call. It was Denny Hamlin that won that race. Like him or not, Denny was amazing. Also about the Max Papis thing. He is start and parking. They are trying to get in the top 35, and are trying to start and park there way in. Read in on Jayski. Good luck with that by the way. 35. Ryan posted: 03.29.2010 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's something to think about: In the six races this year, three have been green/white/checker finishes, three have not. Amazingly, all of JJ's wins haven't been g/w/c finishes. I guess NASCAR doesnt' need to throw a caution when JJ is leading late in the race. 36. Mike posted: 03.29.2010 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was SO happy to see the Jeff Gordon I've been a fan of for 10+ years. If he keeps driving like that he may have a shot at the championship this year. 37. rw posted: 03.29.2010 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow interesting, Biffle is the only driver (I think) to finish in the Top 10 of each of the races this season so far. 38. Bronco posted: 03.29.2010 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Carl Edwards has back-to-back top tens for the first time since Kansas and Charlotte last October." You mean California, not Charlotte. Carl had an engine failure at Charlotte. "Also about the Max Papis thing. He is start and parking. They are trying to get in the top 35, and are trying to start and park there way in." They're not doing S&Ps to make the top 35, rather to secure their positions in the case of rain outs and to build their foundation for a full time run next year. Paul Menard has done a great job this year. All but one of his finishes so far has been his career best at that particular track. I never saw this coming. JPM should be in the top 10 right now, but he has had the worst luck so far this season. Same goes for Reut. In 6 races Martin Truex has already equalled Michael Waltrip's top 10 total in all of '07, 08 and '09. 39. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2010 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seems like Matt Kenseth is the only driver who can wake Gordon out of the coma he's been in since the end of 2007. 40. ecdm posted: 03.29.2010 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm so sick of hearing about this "golden horseshoe" crap. Even Bob Dillweed said it on RaceHub tonight. Did he see the race? JJ was in the top five almost the whole race, and yet he's called lucky because he finished 9th? Ridiculous. Mike Joy said that crap too. What a bunch of tools. 41. Bronco posted: 03.29.2010 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just for fun, here's a comment from last year's spring Martinsville race: 19. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.03.09 - 8:23 pm "2009 Paul Menard 20th or worse count: 6" Here's how things are this year. 2010 Paul Menard 20th or worse count: 0 2010 Kasey Kahne 20th or worse count: 3 2010 Elliott Sadler 20th or worse count: 5 2010 AJ Allmendinger 20th or worse count: 4 Look like Sadler has pulled out to an early lead. 42. Critic posted: 03.29.2010 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Truex's 5th is the best run for the NAPA car away from Daytona or Talladega in almost five years -- incredible how long that sponsor was satisfied with futility. 43. Critic posted: 03.29.2010 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And before anyone points it out, I am omitting the second-place finish at Loudon, for somewhat obvious reasons. 44. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.30.2010 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) So then you would be willing to strike from the record other rain related finishes? Granted, it was due to circumstances beyond NASCAR's control, but I hate when people bitch about finishes due to rain 45. Eric posted: 03.30.2010 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, I think you don't get that part of Jeff Jordon's comma was caused by the 2008 Las Vegas Motor Speedway crash. Remember Jeff's car hit a wall that wasn't protected by the safer barrier on that track. The crash was one the things that caused Jeff's back acting up in 2008 and 2009. The crash also might have made him think what could happen to him since is a father to an daughter that wasn't year old yet by that Vegas crash. Is possible that crash made Jeff Gordon less aggressive despite the fact his back appears to fine this year. Other Drivers were affected by serious injuries in the past. Longtime Nascar writer Ed Hinton claimed Darrell Waltrip wasn't as aggressive as he was before the 1983 Daytona 500 wreck he was in. The other part of Jeff Gordon's comma is caused by a combination of things including having Steve Latarte as a crew chief. Steve has cost Jeff wins in the past. Ed Hinton last month claimed on Espn's chat room or one of his articles that Jeff Gordon's skills are on the decline starting with the fact Jeff doesn't like his car being loose like he did back his first 8 years in cup racing. I think also you forgot the fact before the 2007 season, Jeff Gordon's stats in 2005 and 2006 wasn't that as good compare to the seasons Jeff had before 2005. You can't blame it all on his 2 time crew chiefs during those 2 seasons. Jeff in 2005 had 4 wins, but only had 14 top 10's and that was his lowest amount of top 10's since 1994. Jeff in 2006 has only 2 wins in a season. That was his lowest since 1994. Jeff also had 18 top 10's that year. That was the first time Jeff had back to back years without having at least 20 top 10's in a season since 1993 and 1994.The other thing to look at is I remember reading on the internet that Rusty Wallace or another legendary driver questioned Jeff's focus or his fire in his belly. 46. Jeremy Siple posted: 03.30.2010 - 12:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why in the world did Max Papis start and park? He's got sponsorship from Geico. I hope they really did lose their breaks and didn't trust an inexperienced Papis at Martinsville and didn't really start and park. There's no excuse for that crap when you have sponsorship from a big company." Quitcherbitchin. 47. Critic posted: 03.30.2010 - 1:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I should clarify: When I said "run", I meant it quite literally -- outside of Waltrip's superspeedway specialty, the NAPA car hasn't performed as competitively as it did today (and, admittedly, Atlanta) in almost five years. Loudon was a great result, and Waltrip would've won that race had it gone another lap or two before the rain, but it's not as if he was going to get there without the weather. 48. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.30.2010 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When have I said anything bad about Paul Menard's current season? Yes I made a lot of comments about him last year, after all he earned the FLOPPER award (last place among driver that start every race), but not this year. So why bring that up? At this point last year he had 6 finishes of 20th or worse after the season's sixth race. Does his good start this year change that? No, last year was a complete embarrassment, and the fact that he held on during the merger was a joke. If he weren't bringing the money from his rich Daddy, he would have never even sniffed Yates/Petty. Yes, he has done really well this year, and I am shocked, but I stand by last year's remarks. Hell, how many times have I made fun of Dale Earnhardt's '97, '98, and '99 seasons? With Austin Dillon running the famous #3 logo on a black Truck this year, you will hear a lot of those. 49. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.30.2010 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So then you would be willing to strike from the record other rain related finishes?" I'm just gonna come right out and say it: It depends on the driver. Jimmie Johnson won a rain shortened World 600 race once, and David Reutimann (whom I like personally) also won a rain shortened World 600. Reut's is mostly determined to be a fluke due to that being his only Cup win, and I agree. JJ's? Mostly not considered a fluke. Why? First of all, he won the next two 600s (and 5 additional Charlotte races). Now compare Kurt Busch's miracle win at Loudon '08, and Logano's similar miracle win in the exact race a year later. For the 20+ race winner, it is deemed legit (even though that year completely sucked for him). For Joey, who had a mostly disastrous '09 season with a 2 time championship winning team, it looks like a fluke. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but that is how it is perceived. Once you win a certain number of races, you get the benefit of the doubt. 50. the_man posted: 03.30.2010 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on his 16th place finsh: "I donâ??t think we got the finish we deserved, but it could have been a lot worse." 51. Talon64 posted: 03.30.2010 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm just gonna come right out and say it: It depends on the driver. Jimmie Johnson won a rain shortened World 600 race once, and David Reutimann (whom I like personally) also won a rain shortened World 600. Reut's is mostly determined to be a fluke due to that being his only Cup win, and I agree. JJ's? Mostly not considered a fluke. Why? First of all, he won the next two 600s (and 5 additional Charlotte races). Now compare Kurt Busch's miracle win at Loudon '08, and Logano's similar miracle win in the exact race a year later. For the 20+ race winner, it is deemed legit (even though that year completely sucked for him). For Joey, who had a mostly disastrous '09 season with a 2 time championship winning team, it looks like a fluke. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but that is how it is perceived. Once you win a certain number of races, you get the benefit of the doubt." I don't like to see it that way; either Jimmie's, Reut's, Kurt's or Joey's rain wins are all legit or none of them are. I prefer the former. When races can end due to rain, and fuel mileage is a factor, then they're legitimate factors of the race that can get you into victory lane if you play them right. Jeremy Mayfield didn't even have a top 20 car at Michigan in 2005 but used fuel mileage to win, along with Riggs to finish 2nd, snookering Matt Kenseth and Carl Edwards who were in position to win otherwise. I don't know if Mayfield deserves benefit of the doubt or not, it was his 5th and final career win. We've also seen Carl Edwards use fuel mileage to win at Texas and Homestead back in 2008 even when he had the best car in both races. It's all legit, even if one driver turned out to be a meth-head assface. 52. Talon64 posted: 03.30.2010 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For Joey, who had a mostly disastrous '09 season with a 2 time championship winning team" Actually, a good top 20 season as the youngest rookie ever when he wasn't even supposed to be in Cup yet, which is paying big dividends this season since he's been the best driver at JGR so far. 53. I Seize The Day posted: 03.30.2010 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain tires and tarps- I have had it with rain delays 54. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.30.2010 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly Talon. I guarantee you that Richard Petty's 200 wins had some rain shortened races sprinkled in here or there, yet everybody clings to that 200 as a holy number. Same with other great drivers. I bet you anything they had rain shortened victories sprinkled in their victory totals, yet people regard their numbers as great. Someone lucks into a win due to rain or fuel mileage, and now all of a sudden, it's supposed to not count? How the hell am I supposed to go along with that line of reasoning? 55. Smokefan05 posted: 03.30.2010 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Someone lucks into a win due to rain or fuel mileage, and now all of a sudden, it's supposed to not count? How the hell am I supposed to go along with that line of reasoning?" I can't follow that reasoning either. It doesn't look any different in the win column and the trophy doesn't look any different siting at home. A win is a win no matter how you get it. IT COUNTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even Mikey Waltrips wins count as much as some would like too say they were because of DEI the plate package. Too bad he crossed the finish line first, all the other BS doesn't matter. 56. Anonymous posted: 03.30.2010 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race was the first time that Kevin Harvick has started on the pole since the second race at Loudon in 2006. This was also the first time that Harvick started on the pole by owner points since qualifying was rained out. 57. Ivan Balakhonov posted: 03.30.2010 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NA$CAR inconsistency at its best. The decision to throw a caution when Burton hit the wall spoiled the race for me. I don't need artificial drama to get excited. No way. 58. Steve.M posted: 03.31.2010 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) MY FIRST EVER CUP RACE! 59. leothedrummer posted: 03.31.2010 - 5:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) About the legitimacy of a rain-out victory: Saying it doesn't count is pure rubbish. Ever heard of the phrase "That's racing"? The best comment about it I've ever heard came from Marcos Ambrose after Joey Logano's Loudon win. Talking about his performance, he said "We could have won the race, seeing as we were ahead of Logano when the final caution came out, but we decided to pit, handing him the win". And that's that. Everyone has an equal oppourtunity to win and to say that a driver doesn't deserve the victory after making the right call? Nonsense. 60. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.31.2010 - 6:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Balakhonov, I can agree with you on that. If a driver hits the wall during a spin (and hits it decently enough, not just a tap or a brush), I can understand throwing a caution, but throwing a caution when Elliott Sadler spins (essentially does a 360, and goes on his way), yet not throwing a caution when Marcos Ambrose spins it, it does reek a bit, and I wish NASCAR would be consistent with that. 61. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.31.2010 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just for the record, I never said it "shouldn't count". It just doesn't get looked back upon with the reverence that a "win" would normally get. But right or wrong, once a driver reaches a certain level of success, even those wins look more legitimate as compared to (so far) unaccomplished drivers like Reut and Logano*. A good example is Matt Kenseth's '09 Daytona 500 win. A Winston Cup champ and multiple race winner, it rarely gets called a "rain win" even though he led under green flag conditions for about 150 ft. I'm just stating the general perception. *I made sure to add the "so far" tag to Joey's unaccomplished status. I have a feeling that will change soon. He has impressed me this year, at least on the Cup side. Once he gets a few more wins under his belt, that "fluke" Loudon win (which is more about NASCAR catering to their official home improvement warehouse than anything) will seem more legit. Look at Bill Elliott's first win, it was rain shortened. 40+ wins later, we don't care. He is a legend. 62. Kit posted: 03.31.2010 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Actually, a good top 20 season as the youngest rookie ever when he wasn't even supposed to be in Cup yet" Dude, the #20 team that year could have competed for a championship. Logano had a top 20 finish. The key phrase there is definitely "he wasn't even supposed to be in Cup yet." 63. Kit posted: 03.31.2010 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but that is how it is perceived. Once you win a certain number of races, you get the benefit of the doubt." Pretty much. You get the benefit of the doubt if you are capable of winning that race without it being rain shortened. 64. Talon64 posted: 03.31.2010 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dude, the #20 team that year could have competed for a championship. Logano had a top 20 finish. The key phrase there is definitely "he wasn't even supposed to be in Cup yet." I don't get why you're completely ignoring the circumstances. You're right, the #20 team could've competed for the championship last year IF Tony had stayed for the final year of his contract. Which he didn't. And even then he would've been in the same lame duck status as 2008 when he had his worst season. And I'm not arguing about whether Joey was put in the #20 too early but Joey did a great job last year IN SPITE of it and I don't know why you just look at where he finished and state he sucked. It was as much forced on him as it was on the #20 team to have to get an 18 year old rookie up to speed. In hindsight the extra non-pressure year of experience he got, which is even more important now because there's no regular testing at current NASCAR tracks, has paid off big time this season. I don't think he'd be running as well right now without it. 65. leothedrummer posted: 04.01.2010 - 3:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "that "fluke" Loudon win (which is more about NASCAR catering to their official home improvement warehouse than anything) will seem more legit." The point I'm making is that Logano's win can't be a fluke, as every other driver on the track was in the exact same situation and had every chance possible to make that call and win the race. I can't remember where he was when the caution came out, but lets say he was 16th. That means 15 other teams made the wrong call and blew their race. Putting yourself in a position to win and then capitalizing on that position isn't fluking into a win - it's smart racing. 66. Zed 3_88fan4eva posted: 04.01.2010 - 5:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why is it that any time a driver does good or surprises us it is considered a fluke. Maybe they won the race because they put themselves into posistion to win and they did a great job all day. Like Derrick Cope...not alot of people realize that he was up in the top five all day long. Alot of you people are being way too hard on Joey Logano and I have a bad bad feeling that people are gonna cast Joey aside too fast and like I said on his page he wont get a chance like Casey Atwood 67. DaleJrFan18 posted: 04.01.2010 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Just for the record, I never said it "shouldn't count". It just doesn't get looked back upon with the reverence that a "win" would normally get. But right or wrong, once a driver reaches a certain level of success, even those wins look more legitimate as compared to (so far) unaccomplished drivers like Reut and Logano*. A good example is Matt Kenseth's '09 Daytona 500 win. A Winston Cup champ and multiple race winner, it rarely gets called a "rain win" even though he led under green flag conditions for about 150 ft. I'm just stating the general perception." I still find that victory to be bullshit, no matter how many championships or wins he has. All of my friends agree as well. 68. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2010 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "as every other driver on the track was in the exact same situation " Actually they weren't. The other drivers weren't being sponsored by The Official Home Improvement Warehouse of NASCAR, who pours lots of money into Daytona Beach, and has to watch their rival's sponsored car make history. I have nothing against Joey personally, I think he has handled the "second coming of (insert legendary driver here)" well. But he has had a dream ticket from the moment he was born, and NASCAR is pushing the heck out of him to make Home Depot look good. From winning the "fan vote" at the All Star Race (he has a very minimal fan base), to the new provision to the Bud Shootout allowing the rookie of the year to enter (do you really think they just randomly thought that up?), to calling the Loudon race too early (we saw at Martinsvill in '08 that a race can continue under a sprinkle on a small track as long as the cars are running), that is why I view Loudon '09 as not a true win. Now his 2nd place finish in this race? Impressive. 69. Bronco posted: 04.01.2010 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I still find that victory to be bullshit, no matter how many championships or wins he has. All of my friends agree as well." I completely agree as well. He may be a good driver, but on the RP tracks he's pretty mediocre. The fact that he had never before had a Daytona 500 top 5, and had led very few laps and had no previous RP wins supports that. The legitimacy of a rain shortened win all depends not on the driver, but on the circumstances behind it. Michael Waltrip's 2003 Daytona 500 win was legit because he had the car to beat all day long and seemed to have them covered. The last two summer New Hampshire races were decided because the crew chief told the driver to stay out and lead a handful of green flag laps, and at that moment the sky opened up. Same with Reut's 600 win, where he never even led a green flag lap yet ended up winning. 70. Talon64 posted: 04.01.2010 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to bring up driver ratings but I think it's pretty telling this time on this point: http://www.sbnation.com/2010/4/1/1400995/nascar-stats-driver-rating-fantasy-racing-picks what it is: Formula combining the following categories: Win, Finish, Top-15 Finish, Average Running Position While on Lead Lap, Average Speed Under Green, Fastest Lap, Led Most Laps, Lead-Lap Finish. Maximum:150 points per race. Must have raced in 75 percent of scheduled point-paying races. Paul Menard's 11th in the standings but only has the 22nd best rating. http://www.racing-reference.info/driverlog/menarpa01/W/2010 He has 3 top 15 finishes and a 5th but his average running position is around 19th so his average speed under green is probably around that too, and he's only had 13 fastest laps. In other words, he's done a great job to be 11th in the standings and results matter most, but the trend insinuates that he won't stay in the top 12 for much longer if at all. The flip side is JPM, http://www.racing-reference.info/driverlog/montoju01/W/2010 who's 25th in the standings but 12th in the driver ratings. 2 top tens including a 3rd, he's run in the top 10 the whole season (and usually had his problems when he's running in there) and he's had 98 fastest laps so his average speed's pretty good. 12th's pretty representative of how he's run and where he should be in the points standings if it weren't for all the bad luck. 71. Matt G posted: 04.01.2010 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think one thing that Nascar could do to help get rid of some of the fluke like nature of these rainshortened races is revert back to the last green flag lap when they call a race. This wouldn't have fixed all situations like Logano at Loudon last year but it would have fixed the way Reut won the 600. The way the system is set up now, the leaders are in a damn if you do and damn if you don't situation when the caution comes out because of rain in the second half of a race. I think it's unfair to say "hey if you pit and it rains then you finish 15th but if you don't pit and it doesn't rain you have to go back to 15th". They are the leaders; they don't deserve to be punished. If you just said "pit as if the race was going to continue but if it rains the finishing order reverts back to way it was when the caution came out" then I think you would solve some (not all) of these problems. 72. Red posted: 04.02.2010 - 1:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon64, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who puts stock in Driver Ratings. Of course the final result is what matters in the standings, but how a driver RUNS is a better predictor of future performance than how he finishes. It's funny how advanced stats have caught on in other sports, yet are almost universally rejected by NASCAR fans. Maybe because it's hard for fans to accept just how big a role luck plays in the outcome of races. JPM has clearly had the worst luck this year, but Gordon, Kahne, and both Busch brothers have also run a lot better than they've finished. Other than Menard, the luckiest driver has probably been Kevin Conway, considering he always finishes around 30th despite being the slowest car on the track every week. 73. leothedrummer posted: 04.02.2010 - 4:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's actually a legitimate suggestion. A fair few other championships will revert back to the standings of the previous lap when a race is red flagged (although usually there is no yellow before hand - the races are just called when it's deemed unsafe to race). 74. Kit posted: 04.03.2010 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Maybe because it's hard for fans to accept just how big a role luck plays in the outcome of races." No, it's because there is no way you can separate luck from choking. 75. Kit posted: 04.03.2010 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't get why you're completely ignoring the circumstances." What circumstances? That Joey Logano had no business being in a championship-contending Cup car at that time? You can praise Logano (personally I don't really have a problem with him as a driver) but it's pretty obvious that they regressed dramatically as a team due to the driver change. Nothing really to brag about there as a team. It's like replacing Joe Montana of the '89 49ers with Jay Cutler and then praising them for the change. Can Cutler improve? Sure, but it's still going backwards by sticking him in there for the time being. Same thing with Logano. "You're right, the #20 team could've competed for the championship last year IF Tony had stayed for the final year of his contract. Which he didn't." The #20 team could have competed for a championship if they had a good, experienced driver. This has nothing to do with Tony Stewart. There's quite a few drivers who could have been very competitive in the #20. I never said anything about Stewart staying, not sure how your IF statement applies to what I said specifically. "And even then he would've been in the same lame duck status as 2008 when he had his worst season." Stewart brings a lot of issues himself. "And I'm not arguing about whether Joey was put in the #20 too early but Joey did a great job last year IN SPITE of it" Here's the problem I have with this. Logano didn't do a great job, he's way too inexperienced to do a great job. He took a championship caliber team to a 20th place finish in the standings. That's not great. If you want someone who did a great job in his first full-time season, look at Davey Allison. Hell, Allison also ran a part-time season in which he still finished 21st in points. The difference between Allison and Logano? Allison was actually ready for Cup. Logano just won some Busch races with the best car on the track. Compared to other Cup rookies, Logano didn't do a great job... although right now he's a serviceable driver. Pretty foolish to throw him in there so soon. "and I don't know why you just look at where he finished and state he sucked. It was as much forced on him as it was on the #20 team to have to get an 18 year old rookie up to speed." Forced on him? He SIGNED THE CONTRACT! After seeing drivers like Casey Atwood get burned, you'd think other drivers in similar situations would be a little more cautious. Especially if you barely have any experience in the top three series and you're being asked to drive a championship-level Cup car. Whatever happened to career progressions like Kurt Busch, Greg Biffle, and Brad K.? "In hindsight the extra non-pressure year of experience he got, which is even more important now because there's no regular testing at current NASCAR tracks, has paid off big time this season. I don't think he'd be running as well right now without it." Yeah, and if he had a career progression like Kurt Busch and Greg Biffle, he'd probably would have won eight races in his rookie season instead of one rain shortened race. 76. Spen posted: 04.03.2010 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't use Kurt Busch as an example. He hadn't even finished his first year of trucks when he replaced Chad Little. Kyle Busch actually had more time in the lower series than Kurt. 77. Red posted: 04.04.2010 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No, it's because there is no way you can separate luck from choking." I totally disagree. To quote Richard Petty: "The best you can do is put yourself in a position to win, and circumstances will dictate the outcome." You see this play out all the time. Someone will have a 5 second lead, then a late caution flag flies, pit stops mix up the running order, and the driver who had an easy win suddenly finds himself hopelessly mired in traffic. That's bad luck, not choking. You very rarely see a driver give away a sure victory unless circumstances intervene. Regarding Joey, it's tough for me to embrace someone who's as over-hyped as he has been, and who's spent his entire racing life in A+ equipment. Besides, the "Sliced Bread" nickname is the height of arrogance, kind of like LeBron being dubbed "King James" before he played a single NBA game. 78. martin-n-rusty posted: 04.04.2010 - 7:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, don't blame Joey for "sliced bread". I also think a lot of the Logano hatred is unwarranted, as, for a young kid, he is probably the most level headed driver there is. 79. Anonymous posted: 04.06.2010 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He's done, he'll never win again! Another downfall for Jeff Gordon, thanks Kenseth! You lost my respect again!! I bought a 1:64 scale of Jeff Gordon's car, and I will not open it until he wins again. Kind of like Brock Beard with Casey Mears. 80. Anonymous posted: 04.06.2010 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah, the flag man cost him the race too, if they waved it 5 seconds later, Gordon would win. But he's clinch "Mr. Bad Luck" or 2010! PERIOD! As a Gordon fan, that's horrible! 81. Anonymous posted: 04.06.2010 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You can't blame it all on his 2 time crew chiefs during those 2 seasons" You mean three, Jeff Meendering took over for Latarte for six races in 2007 when he and Chad were suspended. He will be remembered forever as the "only crew chief that he never won with." He's like Dale Earnhardt from 1995-1998, a lot of thing went to his way. 82. Talon64 posted: 04.06.2010 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yeah, and if he had a career progression like Kurt Busch and Greg Biffle, he'd probably would have won eight races in his rookie season instead of one rain shortened race." Kurt only had 1 full Truck season before he moved up to Cup in 2001 and he struggled even worse than Logano did, missed a race and finished 27th in the standings. Biffle spent a lot of time in Trucks and Nationwide but still only had a fuel mileage win at Daytona and finished 20th in the standings. "You can praise Logano (personally I don't really have a problem with him as a driver) but it's pretty obvious that they regressed dramatically as a team due to the driver change. Nothing really to brag about there as a team. It's like replacing Joe Montana of the '89 49ers with Jay Cutler and then praising them for the change. Can Cutler improve? Sure, but it's still going backwards by sticking him in there for the time being. Same thing with Logano." Cutler as a rookie or the Cutler of today who's an awful INT-happy quarterback? Not a great comparison, but going with it it'd be more like when Montana left to go to the Chiefs but the 49ers would be stuck having to put in a rookie quarterback a year earlier than intended, someone like Drew Stafford or Mark Sanchez. The #20's 2009 season was a rebuilding year, the best way to describe it since they weren't a top ten team that could contend for the title, around Joey who was the youngest rookie in Cup Series history and who didn't have the benefit of in-season testing. To do as well as he did was a GREAT job by him and the team and how well he's running this year proves it even further, whether you think so or not. 83. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 04.07.2010 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just to add a fact about Roush Racing in 2001: All of their teams flat out sucked that year. Kurt probably could have used more stock-car seat time, but even Matt Kenseth, Mark Martin and Jeff Burton all struggled and they're all great drivers. 84. Kit posted: 04.07.2010 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt was competitive that year to win the truck series championship. Joey Logano wasn't that much of an immediate factor in securing a Busch championship. "Biffle spent a lot of time in Trucks and Nationwide but still only had a fuel mileage win at Daytona and finished 20th in the standings." Biffle won a truck series championship. Not quite sure where you're going at here, Talon. If anything, these examples show that Logano was rushed into the #20 too soon. Busch and Biffle did better in the lower series and still had an adjustment period. I could be wrong, but I doubt Logano is going to win like eight races this season. The length of his adjustment to Cup is going to be longer than Busch and Biffle. Plus Busch and Biffle were older than Logano at the start of this season. It defeats the purpose of having a lower series like Busch when teams aren't even going to let an 18-year-old with potential run the full schedule before moving up. 85. Talon64 posted: 04.08.2010 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Joey Logano wasn't that much of an immediate factor in securing a Busch championship." Joey helped the #20 team win the owners championship, but barely. Then again the 150 point penalty for the magnets in the middle of the season didn't help. "It defeats the purpose of having a lower series like Busch when teams aren't even going to let an 18-year-old with potential run the full schedule before moving up." The original intention was to have Joey run the full Nationwide season but JGR's hands were tied thanks to Tony Stewart. And this season there's Justin Allgaier in for a 2nd season with Penske and competing for the championship, Trevor Bayne running full time in the MWR #99 and Braun and Stenhouse for Roush. Matt DiBenedetto and Ryan Truex's going to make some start this year for JGR and MWR respectively and hopefully they'll be full time next season. It hasn't been like this for a couple years but it's nice to see it happening now. I guess the real question is, what was the better alternative to putting Joey in a year early? Go the #12 Penske route and shove in a mid-pack driver to warm the seat for a season like Riggs, Sorenson, Gilliland or Kvapil? MAYBE Kvapil would've been alright because Kvapil's shown he can be a full time Cup driver with a team better than FRM, and would've done a lot better than Stremme in the Penske situation. Or Sorenson because he's marketable and would've satisfied Home Depot for a year. If they got Kvapil or someone better then it could've been an audition for a 4th car but they aren't even ready yet for one now, let alone two years ago. I guess my whole point is that Joey was put in a year early but there was no other alternative, it was the best thing that could've happened for him, and the results didn't matter but they were good for the position he and the team were put in regardless. 86. Num1hendrickfan posted: 04.11.2010 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to break the news to ya Talon, but Joey Logano was more than ready for Cup when he was "rushed" to that level last season. Sure he had a jittery first seven races to start 2009, but the more important thing is during those first seven races he bought the car home in one piece. This undoubtedly helped him gel as a driver, and his results after show that he belonged at that level. Even his average finish of 20th for the 2009 season indicates that he was ready. Could a driver like David Gilliland or Travis Kvapil pulled something like that off, no. In fact Gilliland himself was rushed to cup and his results are vastly different from those of Logano's. No two drivers are alike, Logano was ready and Gilliland wasn't. 87. awesomegordonfan posted: 10.09.2010 - 10:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Slowest race so far this season 88. Dylan posted: 12.02.2014 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I skipped school just to watch this race. 89. Evan posted: 08.12.2015 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Ford gambles and makes Hamlin come in for tires, he blasts up through the field on fresh rubber and wins. Interesting strategy, but it paid off. 90. The Great Dave posted: 03.22.2016 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember there was a 50 o so lap period of complete mist, and you could see precipitation on the lenses of the on car cameras, but it wasn't enough to through the yellow flag. 91. Rich posted: 12.19.2020 - 7:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Joy, Larry McReynolds and Darrell Waltrip were the commentators. Krista Voda, Steve Byrnes, Matt Yocum and Dr. Dick Berggren were the pit road reporters. Chris Myers and Jeff Hammond were in the Hollywood hotel. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: