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  *Comments on the 2010 Pepsi Max 400:*
  View the most recent comment <#147> | Post a comment <#post>


  1.   Smokefan05 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 7:41 pm
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Wow that was quick. The RR boys are on the ball tonight.

Only saw the last 3 laps but atleast i got to see Tony win. :D
And Jimmie finish 3rd. :(

Karma comes back to bit Baby Busch, wrecks a driver last week, blows an
engine this week.
As does The biff.
And Kevin Conslow was 3 laps, a minor miracle. :P

And it just me or where those stands more packed then the N'wide race?


  2.   Eric posted:
  10.10.2010 - 7:47 pm
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Smokefan05,

Cup races are supposed to be filled than Nationwide races are. Auto Club
Speedway has a pretty big record of attendance for Nationwide and truck
races for a while here.


  3.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.10.2010 - 7:52 pm
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Did you guys see that old lady in Victory Lane loving on Tony after his
interview? She must have kissed him at least 4 times. She wanted her
some of that! Truly hilarious.


  4.   TeamPlayersBlue posted:
  10.10.2010 - 7:55 pm
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With Johnson's, Hamlin's and Harvick's pace, I think we can eliminate
both Kyle Busch's and Greg Biffe's chance at this year's championship.
Good race by Tony Stewart and a well deserved win for him and the entire
Stewart Haas team.


  5.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.10.2010 - 7:57 pm
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I think Smokefan saw the pitiful attendance (typical for Fontana) and
figured surely the crowd must have been better on Saturday. It wasn't
Saturday was one of the most embarrassing crowds ever. Beautiful weather
not far from LA, and you would have swore somebody called in a bomb threat.

Either that or he mistyped. I do that a lot.


  6.   Eric posted:
  10.10.2010 - 7:58 pm
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Stewart now ties with Tim Flock in Career cup wins with 39.

Regan Smith gets his bet finish of the year.

Kyle Busch chase hopes are now gone for sure unless there is a lot of
back luck happening starting with Jimmie Johnson and Denny Hamlin.

This race is the last time that Auto Club Speedway has 2 race dates in a
season for a long time unless attendance woes at another track or a race
track leaving the cup schedule.


  7.   Bronco posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:00 pm
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33 consecutive races that BK has run in the #12 car without recording a
top ten finish, which matches Stremme's performance in 2009 with the
#12. Maybe if he could stay off the wall every now and then he could at
least improve his odds of lucking into a top ten.

This is Kevin Conway's first completed race in the #7, and he matche his
result from the spring of 31st, 3 laps down. The spring Fontana race and
Las Vegas were the only two races where he has qualified better than
40th, LOL.

On the other side of that, Jamie Mac has 4 poles this season, which is 1
more than he had his entire career entering 2010. He got the same finish
that he did in the spring, however this time he at least led some laps.

Labonte does his 5th S&P of the year, 3rd in the last 4 races.


  8.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:04 pm
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Looks like yet another cha$e bomb by Kryle. As bad as he treats his team
members, I wonder if they rigged his motor to blow on purpose?

Harvick and Hamlin are gonna have to hope for more bad for JJ for them
to have any shot. They just cannot hang with him and his team. If he
would have just finished 10th at Loudon, he'd be 50 more points ahead
than he already is.


  9.   Anonymous posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:05 pm
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Kyle Busch is done. 2 possible top 10's in a row ruined. Stewart would
be very close to the points lead with 2 Chase wins had he not run out of
gas at New Hampshire.


  10.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:05 pm
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"33 consecutive races that BK has run in the #12 car without recording a
top ten finish, which matches Stremme's performance in 2009 with the
#12. Maybe if he could stay off the wall every now and then he could at
least improve his odds of lucking into a top ten."

Yet his winless streak is still shorter than Carl's.


  11.   New 14&88 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:06 pm
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Great win by Smoke, great runs for Bowyer, Kasey Kahne, Mark Martin and
Reutimann.And how about Regan Smith, he hung in there for a top-15 after
just taking two tires on the last pit stops while Paul Menard just sunk
like a rock.


Jack Roush would probably like to pretend this race never happened...the
Biff blew up, Carl and Matt Kenseth both had their own troubles and
David Ragan crashed Kurt out of a top-10...ouch


Don't have to bother with sticking a fork in Kyle, he did a pretty good
job of it himself on the team radio right after his engine blew.The most
wide open chase in recent memory(even with the Chosen One atop the
standings)and he claims they're done....maybe this is karma for spinning
the 00 last week(it did look unintentional though)and than claiming that
Reutimann races him like an "asshole". Guess which one finished in the
top-10


  12.   New 14&88 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:09 pm
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"33 consecutive races that BK has run in the #12 car without recording a
top ten finish, which matches Stremme's performance in 2009 with the
#12. Maybe if he could stay off the wall every now and then he could at
least improve his odds of lucking into a top ten."



And posting this proves what exactly?


  13.   Android posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:13 pm
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People are still watching this chase? It's already over, and I think you
know who wins.


  14.   Bronco posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:29 pm
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"Yet his winless streak is still shorter than Carl's."

Ok, and his winless streak is still shorter than Gordon, Kenseth,
Earnhardt Jr, and Burton in addition to Edwards. What exactly is your point?

"And posting this proves what exactly?"

Does it have to prove something? Heaven forbid a guy state the facts.


  15.   18fan posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:38 pm
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I was at this race and the crowd estimate is actually pretty accurate.

This was the best race at California in years, even though at least one
of the debris cautions had no safety truck even move.

We can now eliminate the Busch brothers, Carl Edwards, Jeff Burton, and
Greg Biffle from championship contention. (In my opinion Kenseth and
Bowyer were already eliminated.)


  16.   Schwab posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:45 pm
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First top 5 finish for Kasey Kahne since Bristol in August.

First top ten finish for Mark Martin since the August Pocono race.
Martin led more laps today than he has in any single race so far this
season.

Elliott Sadler gets his second top fifteen finish of the year. Elliott
also had his first front row start of the season and first front row
start since Phoenix in April 2008.


  17.   Schwab posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:49 pm
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Dale Earnhardt Jr. led laps for the first time since the Coca-Cola 600
in May.


  18.   18fan posted:
  10.10.2010 - 8:53 pm
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It was a great run for Kyle before his engine failure. He had to re pit
to reconnect an air hose to the rear gear and fought back up to fifth
before he blew up.

Another solid performance for the 48, but I really expected them to have
a better racecar based on their history at Fontana, but they were still
very good.


  19.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  10.10.2010 - 9:31 pm
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I'm surprised, yet overjoyed that the 48 didn't win this race. Not much
to really talk about other than that. Was hoping Mark could win for a
while, but he held on to finish 6th.

I'm also surprised nobody mentioned Regan Smith's good finish.
Considering he is driving for Furniture Row, 12th is a great finish.


  20.   Eric posted:
  10.10.2010 - 9:41 pm
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RCRandPenskeGuy,

I already mentioned about Regan Smith's good finish on post 6. I posted
Regan Smith gets his bet finish of the year. That is what I post on post 6.


  21.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.10.2010 - 9:49 pm
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"What exactly is your point?"

That even though Brad's Cup season has been a complete disaster, he has
still won more recently than Carl. Ironic. And funny.


  22.   New 14&88 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 9:49 pm
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"Does it have to prove something? Heaven forbid a guy state the facts."

The fact that you bring up his cup stats for this year in just about
every discussion on this site seems to suggest that yes, you are trying
to prove something....Yes Brad's cup season has sucked, we've known that
for a while now so it isn't a new revelation to us.We're also
disappointed that he's running the whole Nationwide schedule this year
in pursuit of a N'wide Championship that'll be forgotten twenty minutes
after he clinches it while the #12 cup team as pretty much been placed
on the back burner.That fact's been stated many times.The only reason I
can think of for you trying to rub his less than stellar season in our
faces is that you're trying to get some sort of rise out of us, other
wise we wouldn't be discussing this.


You don't like Brad K, fine we get it and we won't try to change your
mind.Everyone has a right to cheer for their favorite driver(s) and root
against their most despised driver(s), that's the way it's been since
the early days of auto racing and that won't nor shouldn't change.But
going about shouting "He's run 33 straight races without a top ten just
like Stremme, quick alert the media!!!" every time some one brings up
his name doesn't do you any favors and just makes you look like a moron
with an axe to grind.


  23.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  10.10.2010 - 9:53 pm
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Oh, sorry Eric. I must have overlooked that line in your post for some
reason.


  24.   I Seize the Day posted:
  10.10.2010 - 9:56 pm
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Tony has now won at all but two active tracks - Vegas and Darlington


  25.   18fan posted:
  10.10.2010 - 9:59 pm
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Brad's emphasis next year should be on Cup and if he does that and leans
on his teammate Kurt Busch, he can do a respectable job, similar to AJ
Allmendinger.


  26.   petty43 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 10:20 pm
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wow david ragan really sucks


  27.   TLarson83 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 10:31 pm
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Regan Smith just missed getting his first career Top-10 finish, but
matches his career best finish of 12th. His team, Furniture Row Racing,
just missed their first Top-10 as a team, their best finish is an 11th
place finish by Joe Nemechek in 2008.


  28.   petty43 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 10:41 pm
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by the way thank god for the chase or else kevin harvick would be
coasting to a title he does not really deserve. at least now he has to
earn it.


  29.   Cooper posted:
  10.10.2010 - 10:43 pm
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Thumbs up to Kyle Busch and Joe Gibbs! Gotta love those Toyota engines.
Next time buy American power idiots.


  30.   petty43 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 11:00 pm
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chevy clinches manufact title for like 8th year in a row. they have led
it all year.


  31.   Anonymous posted:
  10.10.2010 - 11:21 pm
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Regan Smith got his first top-10 finish when he won at Talladega in
2008. Everyone but NA$CAR recognizes that.


  32.   Fun Gus posted:
  10.10.2010 - 11:30 pm
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"Regan Smith got his first top-10 finish when he won at Talladega in
2008. Everyone but NA$CAR recognizes that."

I don't recognize that. Maybe he shouldn't have passed below the yellow
line and he would have gotten that top 10.

Anyways, good race at Fontana.


  33.   Bronco posted:
  10.10.2010 - 11:37 pm
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As Jamie Mac mentioned during the pace laps, thoughts and prayers to
Shane Hmiel after having an awful wreck in qualifying his USAC Silver
Crown Car today.


  34.   the_man posted:
  10.10.2010 - 11:48 pm
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David Ragan on a 32nd place finish: �??I felt like we had a good run
going in our UPS Freight Ford. Some guys were taking two tires
throughout the day so I felt like we were always a little better than
where we were running. Late in the race I was just going as hard as I
could, not cutting anyone any slack, and just misjudged by a foot or two
and it cost us. Fifty laps into the race I wouldn�??t have made that
decision, but on the last run of the day and with less than 10 laps to
go, the little bit of give and take goes out the window.�?�


  35.   petty43 posted:
  10.10.2010 - 11:51 pm
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really was pretty good finish there i think they got seven wide on that
last restart from about 8th on back


  36.   Anonymous posted:
  10.10.2010 - 11:55 pm
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David Ragan is easily the worst driver in Cup not named Conway.


  37.   Eric posted:
  10.11.2010 - 12:15 am
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I know about Shane Hmiel's crash. The concern has to be if Shane will be
back to getting hooked on drugs because of the drugs the hospital that
he might have to take consider the fact he was a former drug addict.

I read earlier this year that Shane said that he is no longer takes
street drugs or any drug for that matter after doing to drug rehab and
getting a wake up call up a fight in a bar.


  38.   Baker posted:
  10.11.2010 - 12:51 am
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One more check mark on the to-do-list for Tony Stewart picking up his
first career California cup win. He'll get his Vegans and Darlington win
before he hangs em up too.

As for the Chase its already over because its been rigged to be over for
years now. Nascar is worse than watching WWF anymore.


  39.   petty43 posted:
  10.11.2010 - 1:08 am
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70000 fans not quite nascar


  40.   RaceFanX posted:
  10.11.2010 - 1:26 am
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I'd hardly call it fixed because Tony won, the race sorted itself out
and he prevailed. Stewart is one of the most skilled racers out there
currently and when luck goes his way he can be a real threat to win, the
idea that he'll win at Vegas and Darlington isn't far fetched because of
his skill not favoritism.

And while we hate it the Chase likely isn't rigged or Jimmie, who most
fans don't like because he's seens as "bland and corporate," wouldn't
win it every year. If it was fixed they'd probably have "the bad guy"
Kyle Busch win it to increase his appeal but Rowdy is mostly out of it
for his own doing.


  41.   petty43 posted:
  10.11.2010 - 8:49 am
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also smoke never won at the rock


  42.   NazRacePhan posted:
  10.11.2010 - 9:44 am
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Bowyer would be 5th in points, 97 out,,,,


  43.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.11.2010 - 10:25 am
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"I'm surprised, yet overjoyed that the 48 didn't win this race."

Same here. I honestly expect the 48 to win every race, and when they
don't it's a pleasant surprise (except if somebody like Kyle or Harvick
wins). I get accused of being a JJ fan, but the fact is he and his team
have simply jaded me with their dominance. There is no real sense in
getting my hopes up that somebody else will win, especially when it
comes to the championship. I may as well just piss into the wind. I
respect them as the best and appreciate that I get to watch history
(Holy Shit, did I get hired by ESPN?) unfold right in front of me. I'm
not gonna try to pretend like they have somehow lucked into 50+ wins and
4 straight titles (possibly soon to be 5) in just 9 seasons. But it just
isn't very captivating.


  44.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.11.2010 - 10:38 am
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"Yes Brad's cup season has sucked, we've known that for a while now so
it isn't a new revelation to us.We're also disappointed that he's
running the whole Nationwide schedule this year in pursuit of a N'wide
Championship that'll be forgotten twenty minutes after he clinches it
while the #12 cup team as pretty much been placed on the back
burner.That fact's been stated many times.The only reason I can think of
for you trying to rub his less than stellar season in our faces is that
you're trying to get some sort of rise out of us, other wise we wouldn't
be discussing this."

Exactly. I don't know how many times we have to mention how disappointed
we are in his garbage pile of a Cup season, and how we feel it has been
affected by his persuit of an NWide title (which is officially
meaningless if you have a full time Cup ride with a top organization)
being his top priority. He is just preaching to the choir, then acts
like he is really sticking it to us.

With the NWide title locked up, I wish they would have put Paul Wolfe in
as crew chief of the #12 for the last 10 races just to see how it goes.
Him and Brad have great chemistry in NWide, so see if it can translate
to Cup at all. If it doesn't, then they can eliminate him for 2011. What
do they have to lose?

Or how about this: Penske steps up and somehow gets Tony Eury Jr. Him
and Brad did pretty well in their few races in the #25 part time effort
last year. Tony Jr is a good crew chief, but his bickering with June
killed their tenure at HMS which is the ultimate buttoned up
organization. To hear those two unrefined rednecks cussing each other
was startling for the other HMS employees. Open up that huge checkbook,
and pull Tony Jr out of irrelevance.


  45.   Smokefan05 posted:
  10.11.2010 - 1:21 pm
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"Regan Smith got his first top-10 finish when he won at Talladega in
2008. Everyone but NA$CAR recognizes that."

Paul Menard won it. ;)


"As for the Chase its already over because its been rigged to be over
for years now. Nascar is worse than watching WWF anymore."

If you think races are rigged then go watch something else. F1 races are
more "rigged" then NASCAR races are. Oh did i just say that?
Signed a former F1 fan.



  46.   Tony posted:
  10.11.2010 - 1:45 pm
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"by the way thank god for the chase or else kevin harvick would be
coasting to a title he does not really deserve. at least now he has to
earn it."

3 wins, 13, top 5s, 20 top 10s.

I'd say that deserves the title. Without the Chase Kevin would be
getting what he rightfully deserves a championship for Childress, the
first since 1994!! Actually te Chase is screwing Harvick as it has
screwed other drivers in the past which means it is time to go back to
the old system that awards a driver for his accomplishments over a 36
race period and not a 10 race period.

Congrats to Tony Stewart!! Now let's go win Charlotte!! If Tony picks up
20 points a race he's champ, the best way to do that is win every week.

Oh and before I end this, without Bowyer's penalty he would be fifth in
points 97 behind, he could wind up losing this title by the margin of
his illegal rear end. That would suck because Bowyer could be the next
Kulwicki where the title is concerned (and I don't mean win the title
then die!) I mean not very many wins but a very consistent driver with a
lot of talent!!




  47.   Bronco posted:
  10.11.2010 - 1:57 pm
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"Or how about this: Penske steps up and somehow gets Tony Eury Jr."

LOL. You can forget about that ever happening. Tony Jr isn't going to
abandon a cushy Nationwide job just to help BK out.

"Open up that huge checkbook, and pull Tony Jr out of irrelevance."

Irrelevance? Really? Did he not just score a legit win at Daytona with
the new car about 3 months ago?


  48.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.11.2010 - 2:22 pm
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"Irrelevance? Really? Did he not just score a legit win at Daytona with
the new car about 3 months ago?"

In the NWide Series with a Cup driver. He is talented enough to be a top
Cup crew chief. Instead he's having to help Danica take baby steps (her
decent run at Cali notwithstanding) and basically teach her how to drive
a stock car. Besides, Brad and June are close (ugh) so I'm sure it
wouldn't piss June off.


  49.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  10.11.2010 - 2:41 pm
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"it is time to go back to the old system that awards a driver for his
accomplishments over a 36 race period"

Amen. People may have not liked the way Matt Kenseth won it in 2003, but
the fact is he was the overall best that year. Ryan Newman won 8 times
that year but also had about that many DNF's. Kurt Busch won 3 races
early in the season, but struggled during the second half for the most
part. I don't think they deserved the championship.


  50.   Smokefan05 posted:
  10.11.2010 - 2:50 pm
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^

No points. If have points you'll have "points racing." And how popular
is that? Not very popular last time i checked.

How about best average finish or most wins? You can do either with or
without the Chase.


  51.   Bronco posted:
  10.11.2010 - 3:19 pm
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"In the NWide Series with a Cup driver."

No shit genius, he's a Nationwide crew chief now, where else is he
supposed to be winning races? And you're telling me his Daytona win is
irrelevant because of Dale Jr driving the car? I guess by that standard
every other crew chief (Pops, Blick, Wolfe, Ratcliff, Cope, Kidd) who
has won a Nationwide race with a Cup guy is irrelevant as well.

"He is talented enough to be a top Cup crew chief."

I agree with you about Tony Jr's talent, he showed it in 2006 when he
revived the #8 team from a disappointing season before, and he was
outperforming even the #48 team for the first half of 2008, after which
the #88 team and Dale Jr's career mysteriously went down the tubes,
while the #48 team began their resurgence.

"Instead he's having to help Danica take baby steps (her decent run at
Cali notwithstanding) and basically teach her how to drive a stock car."

That's exactly what I mean by him having a cushy position now that he's
never going to want to leave. It's probably a lot easier to show someone
the ropes of driving a stock car than to have to worry about chasing a
points championship and the grind of a full schedule.


  52.   I Seize the Day posted:
  10.11.2010 - 5:41 pm
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they should determine the champion based on most laps completed if you
think about it. the season is one long race and who ever has completed
the most laps over the season is the champ.

I have looked at the laps completed statitstics and its pretty cool to
see how that would work out. Talon you should tell us who the laps
completed champions are.


  53.   Anonymous posted:
  10.11.2010 - 5:45 pm
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"by the way thank god for the chase or else kevin harvick would be
coasting to a title he does not really deserve. at least now he has to
earn it. "

You are what's wrong with NASCAR. You, and fans like you, have ruined
what was once a great sport. That is dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Harvick has scored the most points! How does he not deserve it!?

Just stop watching racing. Because obviously you don't understand a lick
of it.


  54.   Anonymous posted:
  10.11.2010 - 5:58 pm
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People actually think Tony Jr is a good crew chief???


  55.   18fan posted:
  10.11.2010 - 6:31 pm
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DSFF, I share your view about the 48 team. I root against them more than
anybody on raceday, but I respect what they have done. Every year for
them is kind of like Gordon's 1998 (although nowhere near as dominate)
in the fact that they always get better as the race goes on and they
have by far the best chemistry in the series.


  56.   Android posted:
  10.11.2010 - 6:36 pm
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#29 - Nice job upholding the stereotypical American ideals. Shouldn't we
be trying to free ourselves of those? I guess not. And I like how you
failed to mention Greg Biffle's motor failure. Wait isn't Ford an
American company? Hmm.

?


  57.   Cooper posted:
  10.11.2010 - 6:37 pm
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52. I Seize the Day posted:
10.11.10 - 5:41 pm

they should determine the champion based on most laps completed if you
think about it. the season is one long race and who ever has completed
the most laps over the season is the champ.

I have looked at the laps completed statitstics and its pretty cool to
see how that would work out. Talon you should tell us who the laps
completed champions are.

YESS I agree. Keselowski would be 7th in the standings and only be 98
laps away from the championship.


  58.   Cooper posted:
  10.11.2010 - 6:41 pm
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56. Android posted:
10.11.10 - 6:36 pm

#29 - Nice job upholding the stereotypical American ideals. Shouldn't we
be trying to free ourselves of those? I guess not. And I like how you
failed to mention Greg Biffle's motor failure. Wait isn't Ford an
American company? Hmm.

?

Android no. Toyota has caused the recession and the american automotive
industry to fail. I'm a happy camper when the Yota engines grenade
ending someones championship hopes. Family has never driven a foreign
car and never will. And actually people need to be more patriotic these
days. Have respect for you're country and support the ones that keeps
the country running. You want to support the richest country in the
world thats 80000km away go ahead, but I would rather buy something from
my next store neighbour.


  59.   Spen posted:
  10.11.2010 - 6:52 pm
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"they should determine the champion based on most laps completed"

In that case, congratulations to David Ragan on winning the 2008
championship. Sorry, but that just doesn't cut it for me.


  60.   John Royal posted:
  10.11.2010 - 6:54 pm
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#58 Cooper

Actually, if you travel 80 000 kilometers you will end up just where you
left off. Twice.

Toyota did not cause the recession, it was your car workers union and
stupid management of US car companies. Toyota and others just exploited
the chance.


  61.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.11.2010 - 7:14 pm
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"And you're telling me his Daytona win is irrelevant because of Dale Jr
driving the car? I guess by that standard every other crew chief (Pops,
Blick, Wolfe, Ratcliff, Cope, Kidd) who has won a Nationwide race with a
Cup guy is irrelevant as well."

Yes, that is exactly what I'm telling you. And just for the record, Tony
Sr's NWide wins (with the exception of Jamie Mac's win at Atlanta this
year) were with a driver that wasn't a full time Cupper.

"That's exactly what I mean by him having a cushy position now that he's
never going to want to leave. It's probably a lot easier to show someone
the ropes of driving a stock car than to have to worry about chasing a
points championship and the grind of a full schedule."

That's true. I'm sure he needs a mental health break after having every
eye in the NASCAR world on him as June's crew chief, and taking all the
blame when they did bad. But at some point I think he'll realize he's
too good to be doing what he's doing. Plus I think he'll want to show
the world he is a good crew chief.

Look, I know him and Brad teaming up is a HUGE longshot. I am just
throwing out ideas to help the #12 team run more like the #2 team and
Brad run more like did in '09. Him and Jay Guy just aren't hitting on
it. It's not Jay's fault, there is just no chemistry. But as far as Tony
Jr, I'll think he'll be a Cup crew chief again. I don't know where or
for who, but I think he'll be back.


  62.   Schroeder51 posted:
  10.11.2010 - 7:44 pm
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I Seize The Day, Cooper: Why determine who is the champion based on laps
completed? That gives an opportunity for a driver with a weak season to
win a title because he only had 1-2 DNFs. If we did it that way, David
Ragan would have been champion in 2008 and in 1992, the year of the best
points battle ever, Ted Musgrave would have won the title. Doesn't seem
like a good idea to me.


  63.   awesomegordonfan posted:
  10.11.2010 - 8:12 pm
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"by the way thank god for the chase or else kevin harvick would be
coasting to a title he does not really deserve. at least now he has to
earn it."

Uh, no. The Cha$e sucks. I wanted Harvick to win the championship
(actually, my second pick to guess who), and if it weren't for the
Chase, Johnson would've won in '06 by 4 points. But, instead, we have to
live through the Cha$e, and Johnson won by 80+ points. Only '04 made the
points closer. Gordon would have 6 championships, Johnson would have 2
or 3 (he would still be owning), and it would've been last year for 2 in
a row for Johnson.


  64.   Bronco posted:
  10.11.2010 - 8:39 pm
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"Toyota has caused the recession and the american automotive industry to
fail. I'm a happy camper when the Yota engines grenade ending someones
championship hopes. Family has never driven a foreign car and never
will. And actually people need to be more patriotic these days. Have
respect for you're country and support the ones that keeps the country
running. You want to support the richest country in the world thats
80000km away go ahead, but I would rather buy something from my next
store neighbour."

The Toyota Camry and Toyota Tundra, the two vehicles used in NASCAR are
both built in the US, along with several other Toyota cars and trucks.
Same goes for Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Subaru and Mitsubishi and now the
Koreans as well. Just thought I'd let you know.

BTW, do you own a PS3, or a Wii? Guess what? They're made by Japanese
companies! How about a digital camera, a TV (that you used to watch the
race), laptop (that you're using right now), or a stereo? Chances are
one of them was manufactured by Toshiba, Olympus, Pioneer, Casio, Sony,
Sharp (also Japanese companies!)

Quit blaming foreign cars for the condition of the American automotive
industry.


  65.   Neal posted:
  10.11.2010 - 9:31 pm
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The Big 3 went into the shitcan largely because of 2 things: labor costs
and inept management.

120 years ago unions were necessary, but nowadays with plenty of
governmental labor regulations, labor unions are dinosaurs that exist
largely to benefit their management at the expense of the workers. Just
think about how much more the best and brightest union workers could
make if they didn't have to carry the load for the dipshits at the
bottom of the barrel.

Add into labor costs the overall stupidity of the Big 3's management.
Detroit has been by and large reactive instead of proactive. They
idiotically assumed that we'd have a cheap oil supply for decades to
come. When oil prices went through the roof and people thought twice
about buying those gas-guzzling SUVs and pickups (with the huge profit
margins), they were caught with their pants around their ankles. It took
upwards of 2 YEARS to get fuel-efficient cars from the drawing board to
the showroom floor. By then the damage was already done.


  66.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.11.2010 - 10:16 pm
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I still say without the cha$e JJ wins the '04 championship and Gordon
wins the '07 championship. The 48 never would have blown 3 straight
motors in the summer of '04 once they had that 230+ point lead. They
would have coasted for a while, built up an even bigger lead, then
dropped the hammer. But they screwed around in the summer knowing it
didn't really matter what their points lead was, it was going out the
window after Richmond. Same thing in '08. I know in those 2 years Gordon
and Edwards respectively had more points under the traditional system,
but if that what they were racing under, the 48 wouldn't have had such
crappy summers. Same deal for this year by the way.

Were it not for the cha$e, here is how it would have turned out: JJ wins
in '04, '06, '08, and '09, Stewart clinches the '05 Cup with 2 races
still to be run, Gordon wins in '07, and Kurt Busch wins it NEVER!!!!!!
And Cale would still be the only one with 3 in a row until Homestead
this year when JJ ties him.


  67.   Bronco posted:
  10.11.2010 - 11:00 pm
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"Were it not for the cha$e, here is how it would have turned out: JJ
wins in '04, '06, '08, and '09, Stewart clinches the '05 Cup with 2
races still to be run, Gordon wins in '07, and Kurt Busch wins it
NEVER!!!!!! And Cale would still be the only one with 3 in a row until
Homestead this year when JJ ties him."

Wrong, Stewart's point lead after Texas in 2005 wasn't quite big enough
to give him the big trophy just yet. And Edwards would be your 2008
champ using the traditional points, even with the Las Vegas penalty.


  68.   OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted:
  10.11.2010 - 11:48 pm
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As expected the Kyle Busch meltdown is in full force. Last week, losing
patience with Reutiman and this week not of his own doing with the
motor. Will Dennis be next?

In order for Harvick to win a title 2 things must happen. 1)Better
qualifying runs. 2)Turn good performances into great performances.
You're not going to defeat Johnson by running good. You must lead laps
and win races.

Stewart must be kicking himself over Loudon. As has been the case for 4
months, he keeps clicking off great races and has had a chance to win a
lot of races. He capitalized Sunday.

Jeff Burton has been a disapointment. He ran great for the first 2 races
and fuel got him in 1 race. He's ran like trash the past 2 races. I
didn't expect him to win, but I figured he'd be a factor for a majority
of the Chase.

Not a Martin fan, but it was great to see him run up front for most of
the day. He confirmed that HMS does in fact have 2 shops.


  69.   martin-n-rusty posted:
  10.12.2010 - 1:55 am
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""Were it not for the cha$e, here is how it would have turned out: JJ
wins in '04, '06, '08, and '09, Stewart clinches the '05 Cup with 2
races still to be run, Gordon wins in '07, and Kurt Busch wins it
NEVER!!!!!! And Cale would still be the only one with 3 in a row until
Homestead this year when JJ ties him."

Wrong, Stewart's point lead after Texas in 2005 wasn't quite big enough
to give him the big trophy just yet. And Edwards would be your 2008
champ using the traditional points, even with the Las Vegas penalty. "

And once again, not only that, whats to say that strategy would be the
same? What's to say Johnson would of put a bit more emphasis on the rest
of the season in 07? It would be much different. Yes, again, it's nice
to say "what if", but the reality of the matter is, everybody would run
the season different.


  70.   Sean posted:
  10.12.2010 - 3:13 am
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"You are what's wrong with NASCAR. You, and fans like you, have ruined
what was once a great sport. That is dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Harvick has scored the most points! How does he not deserve it!?"

Because some of us don't like a points system that almost always rewards
the top average finisher rather than a top winner or a driver who leads
constantly (1996 proves the old points system's ineptitude: Terry
Labonte didn't even have more top fives or top tens than Jeff Gordon.
How is that a champion?). Johnson and Hamlin have had more impressive
seasons than Harvick because they have been running up front all the
time rather than just sneaking into seventh place finishes. Granted,
I'll still take the old points system over the chase, but I'm no fan of
the old points system.

And judging a champion by laps completed is even more ludicrous as has
already been stated...


  71.   Tony posted:
  10.12.2010 - 3:26 am
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"by the way thank god for the chase or else kevin harvick would be
coasting to a title he does not really deserve. at least now he has to
earn it."

Uh, no. The Cha$e sucks. I wanted Harvick to win the championship
(actually, my second pick to guess who), and if it weren't for the
Chase, Johnson would've won in '06 by 4 points. But, instead, we have to
live through the Cha$e, and Johnson won by 80+ points. Only '04 made the
points closer. Gordon would have 6 championships, Johnson would have 2
or 3 (he would still be owning), and it would've been last year for 2 in
a row for Johnson."

Actually if you look at Hometead of that year with only a four point
lead under the old system Biffle knowing it was this close would have
let Kenseth lead a lap and he would have went on to win the title by 1
point!

so then it would be Johnson with '04 and '09 titles and nothing else,
but that is neither here nor there the point of the matter is the Chase
format is horrible becuse you can be 12th place for 26 races and then
all you have to do is give it everything you have and you will win the
title.

Oh and the seeding based on wins, what happens if Gordon who is still
entirely in contention wins the title without winning a race this season
I guarantee NASCAR would cry foul and change the system.


  72.   NCnascarfan posted:
  10.12.2010 - 3:35 am
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To add on to # 71

they would change the system just as they did when certain top named
drivers failed to make the Chase, suddenly we have 12 drivers in the
chase, then a certain driver doesn't win by enough to satisfy NASCAR so
they give bonus points for each race won making it less possible to win
the title without winning a race, which is what they DO NOT want to
happen as they have eluded to before by their actions towards Matt
Kenseth's title and other comments they've made in the past.


  73.   Anonymous posted:
  10.12.2010 - 5:25 am
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"Because some of us don't like a points system that almost always
rewards the top average finisher rather than a top winner or a driver
who leads constantly (1996 proves the old points system's ineptitude:
Terry Labonte didn't even have more top fives or top tens than Jeff
Gordon. How is that a champion?). Johnson and Hamlin have had more
impressive seasons than Harvick because they have been running up front
all the time rather than just sneaking into seventh place finishes.
Granted, I'll still take the old points system over the chase, but I'm
no fan of the old points system."

You're an idiot too. You can't just look at wins or top-5's and say the
driver who has more deserves to be champion. You're telling me you'd
rather see someone with 20 top-5's and 16 last place finishes be
champion than someone with only 10 top-5's but no other finish worse
than 15th? Championships aren't won just because you won a few more
races than the other guy, or finished slightly higher than him in a
couple of races. That devalues most of the season and especially the
championship. Terry Labonte won the title in 1996 because of what he did
in those other races that you choose to ignore to prove your misguided
point. When you say you don't want the championship to be based on
consistency, I can't help but laugh, because that doesn't make any sense
to me as a true auto racing fan. Because I can watch a race and
understand what is happening in it beyond just the guy in the lead. And
to me, it's plain as day that Kevin Harvick has had the best year. Even
if the old system was changed to give the winner of every race 25 more
points than they get now, Harvick is still ahead by nearly an entire
race worth of points. Because he's had the best year. It's obvious. Do
you even watch the races, or are you such a Jimmie Johnson or Denny
Hamlin fan that you just tune out every race they don't run well in?

Jesus Christ, no wonder NASCAR decided to throw 50 years worth of
progress down the toilet to placate these stupid casual fans. They're
too dumb to appreciate the subtleties of every race over the course of
an entire season, and the only thing they understand is WINS! WINS!
WINS! 6 WINS IS MORE THAN 3! I COUNTED IT ON MY FINGERS! THAT GUY SHOULD
BE CHAMPION! PLAYOFFS! PLAYOFFS! PLAYOFFS! DRAMA! DRAMA! DRAMA!
WOOOOOOOO YEAH!

What a shame. NASCAR used to be so great too.


  74.   Anonymous posted:
  10.12.2010 - 7:24 am
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It's harder to be consistent than to win individual races for sure.


  75.   I Seize the Day posted:
  10.12.2010 - 9:31 am
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I don't want the champion to be crowned by laps completed either...its
just fun to look at the stats and see who won the season long race.


  76.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.12.2010 - 11:02 am
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"Wrong, Stewart's point lead after Texas in 2005 wasn't quite big enough
to give him the big trophy just yet. And Edwards would be your 2008
champ using the traditional points, even with the Las Vegas penalty."

My apologies, Stewart would have clinched with 1 race still to be run in
'05. And my point about 2008, as well as 2004 and this year, is that if
they were racing for a full season's championship, the #48 team wouldn't
have used the summer testing stuff out for the cha$e, and I feel they
would have under the traditional standings because they would have had
better summer finishes. Plus, he would have finished better than 15th at
Homestead if he had to. But they played that final pit sequence
completely conservative.

Although I hate the cha$e with a white hot passion, you have to give the
48 team credit for playing the system that was presented to them. They
build up a big cushion over the cutoff point for the cha$e over the
first few months, then spend the summer trying stuff out, seeing what
works, and seeing what doesn't work. Hell, this year they had a full
blown R&D setup at Martinsville, the 6th race of the season. If they
were still under the old system, there is no way they would have done
that. So even though there are some years he didn't win the traditional
points (lost to Gordon in '04, Edwards in '08, and most likely Harvick
this year), it is because they didn't have to, and they knew it. I feel
those 3 years would have been different under the traditional points.

To me, the only one not in question is 2007. That one was definitely
Gordon's. 30 Top 10's and 6 victories? Holy Shit. Even if the 48 tried
to win the traditional way that year, they couldn't have. I think Jeff
would have still clinched with at least one race left, if not sooner
(remember, the traditional points would have been different if that were
the system).

So again, either way you cut it, JJ is still a 4 time champion, just not
in a row, and Cale would still hold his rightful place as the only
3-peater, until the end of this year most likely. The difference is
Gordon would have a 5th crown, and Kurt wouldn't have any.


  77.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.12.2010 - 11:24 am
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As far as the "ideal" point system, here is my take on that: We
shouldn't just totally throw consistency out the window, but I still
don't think we reward winning enough. I don't think the guy with the
most wins, even if its by a large margain, should automatically be
champ. Here are some examples of that:

2003: Yeah, Newman had 8 wins, but his season as a whole wasn't
championship worthy. Kenseth had just 1 win, but nobody else that year
really put together a strong enough season to say "yeah, that should
have been mine".

1993: Rusty won 10 races, but Dale still won 6. I say Dale was more
deserving because all but one of Rusty's wins came on tracks one mile or
less. He won 6 of the 8 short tracks (with the #28 team winning the
other 2 with Davey and Ernie) and 3 at Rockingham and Dover. Dale won on
a one mile track (Dover), once at both plate tracks, twice at tracks
that don't compare to anything (Darlington and Pocono) and an
intermediate (the Coke 600 after NASCAR penalized him twice). Plus he
was more consistent.

1985: This one will probably be disagreed with, but Bill had a Bizarro
Rusty in '93 season. Yeah, he won 11 times, but his short track
performance was beyond atrocious. As a team, they just didn't have the
full package like they did in '88. Yes, the part of the package they did
have was pure brilliance (the superspeedways), but overall I say Darrell
deserved it (and I can't stand Darrell).


  78.   Sean posted:
  10.12.2010 - 11:36 am
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"You're an idiot too. You can't just look at wins or top-5's and say the
driver who has more deserves to be champion. You're telling me you'd
rather see someone with 20 top-5's and 16 last place finishes be
champion than someone with only 10 top-5's but no other finish worse
than 15th?"

That is an extreme example and I do agree with you that 36 straight top
15s deserves the title. I'll go so far as to say Matt Kenseth PROBABLY
deserved the 2003 title because I simply don't think Ryan Newman was
consistent enough (I'm not saying to SCRAP consistency entirely, just
that top finishes are not rewarded enough, as NASCAR uses too close
positions differentially through the entire field...separating top five
positions by 5 points and bottom positions by 3 points is LUDICROUS.)
But a year like 2003 is an oddball example, and usually what happens is
the driver with fewer wins is only slightly more consistent than the
higher winner who fails to win the title. I'd probably take Gordon's
2007 over Johnson's too (30 top tens is insane).

"Terry Labonte won the title in 1996 because of what he did in those
other races that you choose to ignore to prove your misguided point."

Ultimately he won the title because he was finishing 17th in the races
he was out of the top ten while Jeff Gordon was finishing 37th,
basically. Of course I know that. Labonte's bad finishes were mid-pack
and Gordon's were DNFs. I just DEFINITELY do not agree with that and I
don't think Labonte would have won in any other racing series's points
system (F1, CART, IRL, etc...). Those series reward winning more but in
my opinion not excessively more and do a much better job at reflecting
the best performer on the track. You don't really see points racing to
the same degree (okay, obviously there are a few exceptions. After Will
Power crashed, Dario Franchitti REALLY played it safe at Homestead,
which is understandable...) By the way, in this year's IndyCar season,
Power was by far and away the most dominant yet Franchitti claimed it
due to more consistency, and I don't have a problem with that. I don't
think the top winner should ALWAYS win the title, but I think years like
1985 and 1996 in Cup prove the extreme consistency-driven points as
wrong (perhaps not so much this one, because Johnson and Hamlin are not
overwhelmingly more dominant than Harvick, except when you look at laps
led, which I think should also play a bigger role.) Years like 1999 and
2000 when the champion didn't win the most races but was overwhelmingly
more consistent in Cup? I'm okay with Jarrett and B. Labonte winning
those titles, especially because no one was really that much higher than
them in terms of wins. Don't characterize me as someone who wants
someone with 10 wins and 26 last-place finishes to win the title. I
don't agree with that.

My bigger problem is not that winning isn't rewarded enough, but that
bottom finishes are rewarded at all. CART rewarded the top 12 of 24-28
cars. F1 rewarded the top 6 (now top 10) of 24 cars. NASCAR gives the
last place finisher a fifth of the winner's points (basically). I think
only the top 25 drivers should score points, and the gap between a 17th
and 37th place finish should be a lot less compared to the top
positions. If only the top 25 scored points, we would not see cars many
laps down returning just to points race either. There wouldn't have even
been a wreck at Atlanta (probably). I understand that the stock car
tradition rewarded consistency more than the open-wheel tradition; I
just think NASCAR rewards consistency TOO MUCH, and as a fan of several
racing series, including NASCAR, I have to admit that NASCAR rewards its
champion the worst (and did so before the chase). But I don't simply
think the champion should ALWAYS be the top winner. I just think in
certain seasons (1985, 1996) the second-place finisher was
OVERWHELMINGLY more dominant, enough to counteract the champion's
consistency. On the flip side, 2003 is probably the best argument FOR
the old points system, because a points system I'd want probably would
have rewarded the title to Ryan Newman, and that just doesn't work for
me, because I don't think he was consistent enough (although Kenseth
doesn't strike me as very deserving either, so I don't know what to think).

"Championships aren't won just because you won a few more races than the
other guy, or finished slightly higher than him in a couple of races.
That devalues most of the season and especially the championship."

Okay, I'll agree with you Harvick this season has a much stronger case
than T. Labonte did in '96. But I think Harvick's season (3-13-20) and
Johnson's (6-13-17) are comparable. Yes, Johnson has DNFs but like I
said, in my opinion, it's kind of ridiculous that the gap between a
mid-pack finish and a DNF is as large as the gap between a win and a
mid-pack finish. In the points system I want:
200-160-130-115-100-90-80-70-60-50-45-40-35-30-25-22-19-16-13-10-8-6-4-2-1, 10 points for pole, 2 points for leading each 10% of a race, Harvick would still be in it, but Johnson would have just passed him for the points lead by 10 points. Johnson has three more wins but three less top ten finishes. I think the seasons are comparable, and I wouldn't say Harvick's was overwhelmingly better than Johnson's (I'd pick Johnson because he has been more dominant in the races). Yes, Harvick has more 11-20 finishes than Johnson. I don't think those kind of finishes should matter as much as they do. Harvick vs. Hamlin? Okay, I agree. Hamlin's consistency has been way worse than Johnson's, and 14 top ten finishes probably should not be leading the points after 30 races under any circumstance. And Hamlin wouldn't be in it according to my idealized points system; he'd be a fairly distant third. I wouldn't rank drivers SOLELY by wins.

"When you say you don't want the championship to be based on
consistency, I can't help but laugh, because that doesn't make any sense
to me as a true auto racing fan. Because I can watch a race and
understand what is happening in it beyond just the guy in the lead. And
to me, it's plain as day that Kevin Harvick has had the best year."

If you'd said true NASCAR fan, I wouldn't have fought with this, but
true auto racing fan? I want NASCAR's points system to be more like
those in other racing series. I am aware of points systems in other
racing series and think they're superior in that they don't reward
people for not taking risks and finishing in seventh place every week.
In NASCAR, you might as well just totally scrap the points and simply
award the title to whoever has the best 36-race average finish (yeah, I
realize that wouldn't match the champion every time. Amazingly, Mark
Martin has managed to go title-less despite leading the series in
average finish twice). Perhaps you misunderstood me though. Consistency
should matter, just not as much as it DOES. To pick an extreme example,
Geoff Bodine had more wins and was far more dominant than Mark Martin in
1994, but Martin sure as hell should have been higher in points. My
idealized points system would have placed Bodine in 10th though, not
17th, and I think he should have been in the top ten, DNFs be damned.

"Even if the old system was changed to give the winner of every race 25
more points than they get now, Harvick is still ahead by nearly an
entire race worth of points. Because he's had the best year. It's
obvious. Do you even watch the races, or are you such a Jimmie Johnson
or Denny Hamlin fan that you just tune out every race they don't run
well in?"

I don't care about Johnson, can't stand Hamlin, and don't really like
Harvick. Again, the main problem with the points system is that it
rewards bad finishes more than it should, and the gap between each two
positions doesn't change much (percentage-wise) throughout the field. If
you simply awarded winning more and did nothing else, then yes, Harvick
would be deserving. But the REAL flaw in the points system is awarding
points to guys who DNF.

It's a difference in philosophy, yes, but I don't think it makes me an
IDIOT.


  79.   Sean posted:
  10.12.2010 - 11:52 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Also, I totally agree with DaleSrFanForever in post 76. With no chase,
Johnson wins in 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, Stewart in 2005, and Gordon in
2007. While I don't think Kurt Busch deserved his championship either,
as Gordon and Johnson were BOTH more dominant and more consistent and
should have been first and second, I do think DSFF doesn't give Kurt
enough credit either. He's elevating a relatively shitty Penske team
into annual chase contenders, something I don't think most of the field
could do in that car.


  80.   Cooper posted:
  10.12.2010 - 1:27 pm
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Anything that benefits Brad Keselowski, I will approve of. If it's
middle of the pack finishes that determines a champion I will be happy.

And I knew I would get on peoples nerves when I mentioned Toyota, which
is good. It's an idiotic thing to say but I'm a blind. Just cause a car
is made in America doesn't mean the money and profits stay in North
America. A Toyota car that is made and sold in America benefits the
Japanese. And I'm sorry, when I heard that many Toyotas were having
catastrophic break failures and faulty accelerators, it just proves to
me that they still are Jap Scrap.


  81.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  10.12.2010 - 2:09 pm
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"If have points you'll have "points racing." And how popular is that?
Not very popular last time i checked."

It may not be popular, but I think it should still be factored into
deciding a championship. I can't stand Harvick, but this year I would
say he's running well enough to deserve the title. He's winning races
and staying consistent in the others. The only thing I would have an
issue with is if somebody like Bowyer, who rarely wins, lucked his way
into a title by finishing 7th-15th every race. But I don't think that
would ever be an issue because something like that hasn't happened before.


  82.   petty43 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 3:44 pm
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best average finish would not work unless everybody runs every single race


  83.   petty43 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 3:46 pm
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because he just goes out and points races and get a user name


  84.   00andJoe posted:
  10.12.2010 - 3:52 pm
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Hmm. If we want to reward winning, and -also- provide an incentive to
move up in the pack...

Why not a system that looks like this?

1st - 250 points
2nd - 195
3rd - 175
4th - 155
5th - 135
6th - 115
7th - 105
8th - 95
9th - 85
10th - 75
11th - 55
12th - 50
13th - 45
14th - 40
15th - 35
16th - 30
17th - 25
18th - 20
19th - 15
20th - 10
21st-25th - 8
26th-30th - 6
31st-35th - 4
36th-40th - 2
41st> - 1

Lead a lap - 5 BP
Lead most laps - 5 BP


  85.   petty43 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 3:55 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

geez i am not defending the chase just saying i dont like how before the
chase a driver could coast to a title, with 12th place finishes, now
kevin can do that and he will have to mix in a couple wins probably for
it to work, i dont like the chase, i like the old system but only when
it produces the right champ, a guy wins 1 or 2 races out of 36 and gets
the cup. i dont think like that, obviloulsy this year jeff gordon, carl
or burton could win the cup without a single win and i dont like that
either, but at least they wont be point racing for the last ten events,
they should be pushing for every spot they can get. so therefore it does
create hopefully better racing for the last ten weeks. so far i am not
impressed. plus the chase puts way too much importnace on two specific
races that are in the chase martinsville and you guessed it talladega.
if the 48 gets thru those clean he will likely win another cup, but at
least he will have 7 or 8 wins by then, kevin will still be stuck on
three i am guessing. six one way half a dozen another.


  86.   Talon64 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 4:37 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"33 consecutive races that BK has run in the #12 car without recording a
top ten finish, which matches Stremme's performance in 2009 with the
#12. Maybe if he could stay off the wall every now and then he could at
least improve his odds of lucking into a top ten."

At this point, everyone has to admit that Keselowski's Cup season is a
complete wash. Here's hoping for a far better 2011 in the #2 Dodge,
which'll likely happen because there's NO way that Penske will let their
flagship team suffer anywhere close to what the #12 has over the last 3
seasons.

This is Stewart Haas Racing's 7th Cup win, 6th by Tony Stewart. It's
only the 4th time that both SHR cars have finished in the top five
(first time this season) and 2nd time that Tony's won and Ryan's
finished 5th.

Clint Bowyer gets his 5th career runner-up finish, first since finishing
2nd at Las Vegas last season.

Jimmie Johnson has at least 13 top fives for the 8th consecutive season.

Kasey Kahne gets just his 2nd top ten finish in the last 11 races,
although they're also top fives.

Ryan Newman has doubled his top ten total for the season over the last 7
races, picking up 6 top tens. He's 2nd in points scored (to Jimmie
Johnson) and his 7.9 average finish is best of anyone over that stretch.

Mark Martin has just his 2nd top ten in the last SEVENTEEN races. The 41
laps he led is the most he's led in a race all season, and most he's led
since leading 68 on the way to winning the Loudon Chase race last year.

Kevin Harvick's 20th top ten of the season ties his career high, set
back in 2006 when he finished 4th in the standings. He's currently 3rd,
which would also be a career best.

Regan Smith ties his career high by finishing 12th. The last time he
finished 12th was in 2009 in the night Daytona race.


  87.   Smokefan05 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 4:46 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

#83 i can get that system but i'd make winning 300 points. Since people
say "winning has to mean something" then do that then. That system would
work in the Chase. Yeah if you make winning 300 points it would be top
heavy but isn't the current system bottom heavy? (i hope that made sense)

"best average finish would not work unless everybody runs every single race"

Unless i'm mistaken but doesn't every team run every race? Most drivers
run every race unless otherwise. Well have a rule that states "in order
to be able to run for the Cup, you have to run 34 out 36 races." If they
run less then that they can't run for it.


  88.   petty43 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 5:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

i was thinking of like mark martin in 07 and 08.

laps led or driver rating would work better than avarage finish


  89.   00andJoe posted:
  10.12.2010 - 5:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

300 points it is then!
With that modification to my system in post #84, after 4 races this
year, the top 12 would have been:

Johnson
Harvick (-69)
Kenseth
Busch
Biffle
Martin
Bowyer
McMurray
Burton
Montoya
Earnhardt Jr
Logano


  90.   Smokefan05 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 5:53 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"i was thinking of like mark martin in 07 and 08."

Well he'd wouldn't be able to run for the Cup (in those years) if NASCAR
puts in the "in order to be able to run for the Cup, you have to run 34
out 36 races" if the Champ was decided by wins or average finish.

"laps led or driver rating would work better than avarage finish"

I can get laps led but not driver rating. To me that is a poor way to
determine a champ.


  91.   petty43 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 6:09 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

also the only drivers to win a race and lead fewer laps this year than
harvick are newman and reutiman


  92.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.12.2010 - 7:59 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"I do think DSFF doesn't give Kurt enough credit either. He's elevating
a relatively shitty Penske team into annual chase contenders, something
I don't think most of the field could do in that car."

I agree, and I'll give him his credit for his last two years at Penske
right now. I think he has definitely overachieved. And I think he'll
raise the entire profile of Penske. Getting Steve Addington, who wanted
to work with Kurt, was a huge boost for him and the organization.


  93.   petty43 posted:
  10.12.2010 - 9:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

also kenseth could win title without win, but i have already wrote him off


  94.   petty43 posted:
  10.13.2010 - 8:49 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

00andjoe i actually have thought a system like yours would be best,
definately reward the winner with a LOT more points and not so many
points for anything worse than say 12th or so, kind of like formula one,
but with higher point totals, anything after 25th should get no points
or award money, that way you solve the start and park problem as well


  95.   Tony posted:
  10.13.2010 - 10:44 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

#83 I'm figuring it up now Iwill have it posted when I finish but 300
would be too much of an advantage for a win, as 250 is already a 55
point gap from 2nd so far it is pretty interesting but I can't give any
etails until I'm done with my figuring of what the top ten would be at
this point in the season with your system.


  96.   Anonymous posted:
  10.13.2010 - 3:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"And I knew I would get on peoples nerves when I mentioned Toyota, which
is good. It's an idiotic thing to say but I'm a blind. Just cause a car
is made in America doesn't mean the money and profits stay in North
America. A Toyota car that is made and sold in America benefits the
Japanese. And I'm sorry, when I heard that many Toyotas were having
catastrophic break failures and faulty accelerators, it just proves to
me that they still are Jap Scrap."

Cooper, you're a bigoted moron. What, you don't think Toyota pays their
thousands of American employees anything? Oh, and none of the money
stays in North America? Can't believe there are actually people out
there so prejudiced and willfully ignorant.

http://behindthewheelnews.toyota.com/?tag=Charities&by=


  97.   petty43 posted:
  10.13.2010 - 4:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

well put post 96


  98.   Cooper posted:
  10.13.2010 - 4:59 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

First of all, thank you for providing a link post 96. But I didn't say
all the profits went back to japan. If you think that all the money
stays within the US then you are blind. And you don't have to call me a
moron when I admitted I was an idiot. It's like making fun of someone
with a learning disability. Big deal I don't like foreign automotive
companies. It's not my fault the Top 7 in this race were not Toyotas.
Maybe they need to do more work and get faster on the racetrack, or at
least provide an engine that can go 500 miles. If you've watched this
NASCAR season Toyota has had the most engine failures. If Reuttiman
didn't blow his engine 5 times he'd have a chance at the championship.


  99.   00andJoe posted:
  10.13.2010 - 5:26 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

To the above: How much of Ford/GM/Chrysler money do you think stays in
the US?
Hint: they have big factories in Canada and Mexico. But that's all I
have to say on that.

Tony: Well, 250 might be better, I'm not sure on that. But I'm looking
forwards to seeing how things work out, either way. =D

Petty43: I don't want to totally do away with points below a certain
point. But allotting an equal number of points in blocks of 5 (as my
system does) would stop silliness where a car parks, then goes back out
for a few laps when somebody else drops out, to pick up the spot.


  100.   Cooper posted:
  10.13.2010 - 6:17 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

You know what the funny thing about all this... I don't even live in the
U.S.A, I live in Canada and I had to watch my city lose not one but two
GM plants. When 70% of the cars in the USA are from foreign
manufacturers, you got a problem. Anyways why do people feel the need to
buy shitty cars that gets 8000000 miles to the gallon. They look like
total idiots. All my friends own foriegn cars and I've lost respect for
them...


  101.   Eric posted:
  10.13.2010 - 7:38 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

The 2nd class of the Nascar Hall of Fame in a bigger shocker in some of
the names elected and I am guessing that is caused by age. Cale
Yarborough not being election is a bigger stunner to me. The top 3 in
votes not picked are the following: Dale Inman, Darrell Waltrip and Cale
Yarborough.

The 5 picked in order are the following: David Pearson, Bobby Allison,
Lee Petty, Ned Jarrett and Bud Moore.

I hope for the ballot for the 2012 class includes Smokey Yunick, Rusty
Wallace, Ralph Moody,Bobby Isaac, and Cotton Owens instead of having Red
Farmer on the ballot for 2012 class.


  102.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.13.2010 - 7:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I hate this process of only choosing 5 per year. 60 years of history,
and they just now decide to start up a Hall (which is overpriced for the
experience BTW) and then only let 5 in per year. Just like everything
else NASCAR has done, they have taken what could have been great and
didn't live up to potential. There are so many people that have made a
lasting impact on this sport, they needed at least 25 for the first
class. Trying to rank the most important 5 at a time? Impossible.
Pearson should have been a stone cold lock for First Ballot, and Cale
should have been a stone cold lock for 2nd ballot.

But congrats to Pearson (belatedly, but whatever), Bud, Bobby, Ned, and
Lee. They all definitely deserve it.

3rd class: Cale, Darrell, Inman, Ralph Seagraves, and Raymond Parks.


  103.   petty43 posted:
  10.13.2010 - 9:22 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

actually cooper people who buy a hybrid and think that they are helping
the environment are wrong, it does more damage to build a prius to the
environment than just driving a land rover for ten years does.

totally second eric on his choice to include smokey who better be on the
damn ballot next year. he is still the ONLY mechanic in the history of
nascar that people came to the track for, trust me i did.


  104.   petty43 posted:
  10.13.2010 - 9:46 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

bud moore is a bit of a surprise to me but he was around the sport a
long long time and everybody liked him so it makes sense, but ned jarret
over cale, wow just wow, ned was really good on dirt half miles and
thats about it, he never really won at the places like daytona charlotte
atlanta darlington and the rock. cale won way more races and was just a
more complete driver, plus he was probably even better on short tracks
than ned was. also very happy to see papa and despite being richards
biggest rivals i am really glad to see bobby and david where they
belong, especially bobby, he has been through so much and fans should
really read his book miracle, it is good stuff.


  105.   Bronco posted:
  10.13.2010 - 10:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Anyways why do people feel the need to buy shitty cars that gets
8000000 miles to the gallon. They look like total idiots. All my friends
own foriegn cars and I've lost respect for them..."

You lost respect for your friends because of what they drive? LOL, wow.

Buy what you like, what suits your budget and needs. Why does it matter
if its Japanese/Korean/American/German.


  106.   Cooper posted:
  10.13.2010 - 11:20 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

True bronco, but seriously, some of my friends are serious moneymakers
and they decide to buy smart cars because they think they are better
than everyone else and trying to be trendy. I hate anyone who is trendy
and right now the trend is to buy something environmental.
I don't hang around people who are trendy.

Anyways i've been trying to mention the manufacturers and try to get
some rivalry between ford/dodge/chevy/toyota and no one cares anymore.
20 years when a racecar had mechanical problems it effected them on
monday. Now a car could have wheels falling off and it's not a big deal...


  107.   Eric posted:
  10.13.2010 - 11:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Petty 43,

There is politics going on with why Cale isn't in. A couple years ago,
Cale demanded to get paid for showing up at the Awards banquet in 2008
since Jimmie tied his record of cup championships win in a row. The
other thing was Cale was planning to starting a rival stock car series
to Nascar that didn't get off the ground.



  108.   Anonymous posted:
  10.13.2010 - 11:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Buy what you like, what suits your budget and needs. Why does it matter
if its Japanese/Korean/American/German. "

Pay attention to what this guy says, Cooper. It's called capitalism, and
it's what the USA is all about. If American automotive companies are
failing, it's their own fault for offering what's perceived to be an
inferior product due to poor gas mileage, limited longevity, or price
for quality.


  109.   petty43 posted:
  10.14.2010 - 12:12 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

really thought rick hendrick might make it this year he or childress
have a better argument than bud moore, but i guess he has senority?


  110.   petty43 posted:
  10.14.2010 - 12:16 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

also that could be true eric but nascar would not be nascar without
politics i suppose, they still should have gotten him in, the voters
have not gotten it wrong two for two, and i am guessing next year they
will vote joe weatherly in or some dumb stuff like that.

to cooper i actually care more about the manufactures title than the
drivvers title, gottal have that for chevy then i can worry about the
stinkin chase.


  111.   00andJoe posted:
  10.14.2010 - 1:28 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

There's also the fact that a whole lot of people know Ned Jarrett from
his ESPN broadcasting work (which he did wonderfully, too).


  112.   martin-n-rusty posted:
  10.14.2010 - 7:44 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DaleSrFan, I've said this in another forum. Baseball's Hall of Fame, in
its first 4 years, only voted in 25 people, in some form or another, and
Baseball's HOF was created in roughly the same time from its founding as
a pro sport to creation of a HOF (about 60+ years for Baseball, 60 years
for NASCAR), so its fairly reasonable to believe in the first few years
for Baseball's Hall of Fame, the same kind of deal with certain players
being left out probably happened as well.

Just give it time, the guys that deserve to go in, will go in, and to be
straight up honest, I like it that there is only 5 chosen at a time, as
at least those inductees can have their time in the spotlight, rather
than being shuffled to the back of the huge crowd while other names,
like Petty or Earnhardt get a huge piece of the spotlight. Does one
really think Pearson would of been a big focus had he been in the first
HOF class? No. He would of been "2nd, yet again, to Petty". Being in
this class, he can be the headline.


  113.   martin-n-rusty posted:
  10.14.2010 - 7:45 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Eric, I thought it was someone else that wanted to create a rival stock
car series to NASCAR, and not Cale. I might be wrong though


  114.   petty43 posted:
  10.14.2010 - 8:32 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

without the penalty bowyer would only be 95 points away from first.


  115.   petty43 posted:
  10.14.2010 - 8:38 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

smokeyyunick was the one who did the most legwork to create a new
nascar. he actually had some good ideas, of course smokey was way ahead
of his time.

also i can relate to the baseball hall of fame not getting certain
people in right away but then during the 40's they inducted a ton guys
who had no business there like fred clarke of the pirates, hopefully
nascar does not follow the same suit and start putting the wrong drivers in


  116.   Eric posted:
  10.14.2010 - 9:29 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

martin-n-rusty,

Cale was indeed involved in Trac, the rival stock car series that didn't
start a race. Cale was even mentioned as a TRAC National Spokesman by
Trac pr on April 15, 2003. Cale's name was first mentioned in the Trac
Project on May 14, 2001 on the Jayski Track Page matter of fact.

Proof:http://www.jayski.com/pages/trac.htm

Jayski's Source was That's Racin'.

Cale Yarbough's mentioned was mentioned on the Jayski Trac Page on the
following dates 4/15/03,4/24/02,10/24/01, 7/10/01,5/15/01, and 5/14/01.




  117.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.14.2010 - 10:58 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I think two things worked in Bud Moore's favor. First of all is his
stunning longevity in the sport. Close to 40 years if I'm not mistaken.
Secondly he is a World War II hero, being one of the people that stormed
Normandy and receiveing a lot of medals. I know that's not directly
related to racing, but NASCAR does its damndest to portray itself as the
ultimate All American, flag waving sport (despite its constant searching
for foreign venues, foreign drivers, and foreign manufacturers*). He's
somebody NASCAR definitely wants to highlight.

And I feel Ned Jarrett is in half because of his driving record (50
wins, 2 championsips before retiring very young), and half because of
his outstanding broadcast work across many networks (CBS, ABC, and ESPN
plus his radio work). They seem to be trying to incorporate everything
for those inducted (which is why Junior Johnson was a no questions asked
first balloter).

Martin n Rusty, I see what you're saying, and you are right about a lot
of things. That is an excellent parallel to baseball. And you are right
that eventually all the deserving ones will get in. I just still can't
help but feel it could have been done better.

*I personally have no problem with foreign entities being incorporated
into NASCAR. Toyota didn't bug me as much as the timing of their arrival
(when the Big 3, each of which has done a ton for NASCAR, were at their
lowest). At the bottom of it, each of the manufacturers is a business,
and they wouldn't hesitate to put a knife in anybody's back for an extra
few bucks. so that doesn't bother me. And I like having some foreigners
driving**. Most of which are quite interesting like Ambrose, Papis, and
Carpentier. Of course, just like Americans, you will have a few jerks
(JPM), but that is life. I was just pointing out the irony in NASCAR
trying to portray the All American image while openly courting foreign
interests. NASCAR hypocrisy at its finest.

**Just for the record, I don't consider non-French-Canadians from Canada
as foreigners.


  118.   petty43 posted:
  10.14.2010 - 3:38 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

red byron was also a war hero and honestly i would rather see him get in
than bud moore who just did not ever appear to me as that great of a
nascar legend


  119.   petty43 posted:
  10.14.2010 - 8:36 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

find it interesting that junior gets in last year and his two most
famous drivers are passed over this year, seems inconsistent


  120.   squidbillie posted:
  10.14.2010 - 10:06 pm
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glad to see pearson get his due


  121.   00andJoe posted:
  10.15.2010 - 2:57 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

@petty43: Bud Moore won two championships as a car owner (1962 and
1963), and another as a crew chief (1957). Byron won one championship as
a driver. I suspect that tips things in Moore's favor (although Byron
should get in, being the very first champion aside from everything else,
and probably will at some point).


  122.   00andJoe posted:
  10.15.2010 - 2:57 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

P.S. Prediction for the Bank of America 500: Conway races in the #64.


  123.   petty43 posted:
  10.15.2010 - 8:27 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

o the trac series idea, yes cale was always one to try to make a buck on
his name


  124.   petty43 posted:
  10.15.2010 - 8:29 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

WHO CARES ABOUT CONWAY GOD PEOPLE QUIT TALKING ABOUT THE DRIVERS THAT SUCK


  125.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.15.2010 - 11:38 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"red byron was also a war hero and honestly i would rather see him get
in than bud moore who just did not ever appear to me as that great of a
nascar legend"

You are right. He definitely deserves to be in, as do about 20 others
that aren't in. The problem is the same problem that has plagued NASCAR
for a long time now: politics and money. NASCAR is fighting to meet
revenue projections for their Hall of Fame. It has not attracted nearly
the number of people they thought it would. I went there soon after it
opened, and honestly it wasn't what I thought it would be. Glory Road is
cool, but outside of that, it is pretty ho hum. Even the interactive
features aren't very much fun.

This is why Red didn't get in and probably won't for some time, which is
a dman shame. Most NASCAR fans don't know about Red and how great he
was, therefore his induction probably wouldn't be a huge draw. It
completely sucks that is way they are thinking, but it is. And that's
modern day NASCAR for ya. Yes Red deserves to be in, but most people
only know him for winning the first ever race at Martinsville in 1947.
Bud Moore on the other hand owned cars driven by people NASCAR fans have
heard of like Baker, Allison, Parsons, Earnhardt, Rudd, and Shepherd.

I would put Red ahead of Bud, but I'm not a politician, which is what it
takes to be involved in NASCAR nowadays. Now if you'll excuse me, I've
gotta go throw up now.


  126.   petty43 posted:
  10.15.2010 - 3:37 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

i too have seen the HOF and i liked it but thought there could have been
more cars there, they cramed more cars intothe halls of fame in
darlington and talladega.

Red was really a great driver who i wished would have raced long enough
to try his hand on the big tracks, he was fearless and back then that
was the number one thing with regards to being fast at the
superspeedwasy. if a driver got a reputation for having big ones then he
would get the good rides at the big tracks. the book driving with the
devil tells a lot about red and ray parks and red vogt it is well worth
the read.


  127.   petty43 posted:
  10.15.2010 - 6:41 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

just saw a really good piece on jimmie johnson on nascar now, and
honestly i do not see why fans say he is boring, it actually made me
chuckle a couple times. and in the past when i have seen such segments
he always comes across as being really down to earth and easy to talk
to, honestly the current driver that most resembles jimmie in
personality right now i think is tony not jeff gordon.


  128.   Madison posted:
  10.15.2010 - 9:50 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I haven't been to the Hall of Fame, but I did see it on TV and it did
look like it could use some work. I've been to the Brickyard HOF, and
they crammed just about every car, plaque, trophy, you name it. There
were even a couple NASCARs.


  129.   petty43 posted:
  10.15.2010 - 11:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

nobody is at charlotte for the race. has to be less than 10000 in stands


  130.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.16.2010 - 10:13 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Jimmie has an interesting personality, but unfortunately he rarely shows
it publically. When you get him outside the racetrack, he is quite
engaging. I wish he'd show that more often. And he has a great back
story. He definitely wasn't groomed for stock car racing success from
his early shildhood. He lived in a trailer park for Pete's Sake. If he
would let that side of him come out, a lot more fans would get behind
him and this would be looked back upon as a glorious era like Petty's
and Earnhardt's heyday.


  131.   petty43 posted:
  10.16.2010 - 11:14 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

also the hall of fame could use a lower admission price


  132.   petty43 posted:
  10.16.2010 - 11:19 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

i dont need that background to like the guy, honetly i would rather see
him win the chase over harvick jeff gordon jeff burton carl edwards and
matt kenseth. and i definatle dont want denny or kyle winning it. jeff
burton would be cool but he has not even won a race. i really think i am
just gonna pull for driver 48, he is the only one who can beat the gibbs
toyotas, well except for the drivers themselves, denny might not beat
himself but kyle already has shot himself in the foot.


  133.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  10.16.2010 - 1:25 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

That is the thing with me. My gut reaction is "Aw man, not the 48 again,
how many times do I have to watch them win it?" But then I think about
the others, and I REALLY don't want them to win it. Harvick and Hamlin?
Ugh. Gordon? Still don't like him. Kyle? Never had to worry about him
because I knew he'd bomb in the cha$e like he always does.

And I agree about Burton. Great guy, deserving in the past, but he
hasn't won in two years. I don't want that to be my champ. At least the
48 have far and away been the best team over the last 5 years by any
calculation. Wins, laps led, hearts ripped out, you name it. No fluke here.


  134.   Anonymous posted:
  10.16.2010 - 2:54 pm
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"Jimmie has an interesting personality, but unfortunately he rarely
shows it publically. When you get him outside the racetrack, he is quite
engaging. I wish he'd show that more often. And he has a great back
story. He definitely wasn't groomed for stock car racing success from
his early shildhood. He lived in a trailer park for Pete's Sake. If he
would let that side of him come out, a lot more fans would get behind
him and this would be looked back upon as a glorious era like Petty's
and Earnhardt's heyday."

"That is the thing with me. My gut reaction is "Aw man, not the 48
again, how many times do I have to watch them win it?" But then I think
about the others, and I REALLY don't want them to win it. Harvick and
Hamlin? Ugh. Gordon? Still don't like him. Kyle? Never had to worry
about him because I knew he'd bomb in the cha$e like he always does."

Dude, just change your name to JimmieJohnsonFanForever and get it over
with. We get it, you're a front-running fan who latches onto the most
successful drivers because it makes you feel superior to everyone else
(really, Dale Sr & JJ? my god, sundays for the past 20 years must be
sooooo agonizing for you). As if any of your posts ever suggested
otherwise.

I bet you have Jimmie Johnson posters on your wall next to your
Earnhardt, Yankees, Patriots, Colts, Bulls, and Lakers merchandise.


  135.   cale gale fan posted:
  10.16.2010 - 3:07 pm
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congrats to smoke


  136.   Anonymous posted:
  10.16.2010 - 5:03 pm
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"also the hall of fame could use a lower admission price"

If you don't mind me asking, how much does HOF admission cost?


  137.   Red posted:
  10.16.2010 - 6:14 pm
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"i dont need that background to like the guy, honetly i would rather see
him win the chase over harvick jeff gordon jeff burton carl edwards and
matt kenseth. and i definatle dont want denny or kyle winning it. jeff
burton would be cool but he has not even won a race. i really think i am
just gonna pull for driver 48"

Agreed. I'm pulling for the 48 to win again this year, simply because I
think his performance has been championship-worthy and he's not a
jackass. Here are the reasons why I don't want the other chasers to win it:

Denny Hamlin: He's still a bit whiny and immature, plus his performance
has been wildly inconsistent this year. That said, I will give him
credit for overcoming knee surgery and still winning six races.

Kevin Harvick: Arrogant prick who runs his mouth faster than he drives.
He's also a conservative points stroker, and this season has been more
of the same. I don't care if he scores the most points under the old
system; he hasn't been as strong as Johnson this year. Laps led: Johnson
1296, Harvick 246. Case Closed.

Jeff Gordon: I've come to like Jeff more as he's gotten older, and I
hope he wins a 5th title before he retires. But I sure as hell don't
want anyone to win the championship without even winning a race.

Tony Stewart: Nothing against Tony personally, but his overall
performance this year just hasn't been strong enough to warrant a
championship.

Kurt Busch: Considering how pathetic his Penske teammates have been, I
give him a lot of credit for even contending for the title this year. I
actually wouldn't mind seeing him win it, except that he already stole
the 2004 title that he most certainly did NOT deserve. And he still rips
his crew over the radio far too often.

Carl Edwards: I personally can't stand Carl; I think he's a phony,
two-faced imposter who could probably kill someone and smile about it
afterwards. I also hate that he continues to run Nationwide and steal
wins and titles just for the sake of stroking his own ego. Besides, he
hasn't won a race this year, he's only led 141 laps, and was a total
non-factor during the first half of the season.

Jeff Burton: I think he's a classy guy, and I think he was championship
caliber from 1997-2000. But since then he's become an ultra-conservative
points racer, and I don't think that style is befitting of a
championship. If he wins a couple races before the year is over, then I
wouldn't mind him taking home the title.

Kyle Busch: Jackass, choke artist, steals wins from the Nationwide AND
Truck series. Until Kyle grows up and focuses his efforts solely on Cup,
I hope he never wins a championship.

Greg Biffle: I like Greg, but he just hasn't been strong enough this
year to deserve a championship.

Matt Kenseth: I absolutely despise his ride-around-and-finish-8th
mentality, and I hate that he already won a title doing just that. This
year, it's been even worse: no wins, only 5 top-fives, and only 90 laps
led. He has more finishes between 11th-20th (15) than top-tens (11). He
shouldn't even be in the chase, much less winning a championship. I also
find his Eeyore personality annoying.

Clint Bowyer: Whether he got screwed by the 150 point penalty is
irrelevant to me, because he hasn't been nearly good enough this year to
deserve a title. If a 12th seed wins the championship I might stop
watching NASCAR forever. Besides, he already owns the two most
undeserved top-five points finishes of all time, with his 3rd in 2007
and 5th in 2008, so I'm actually kind of happy the penalty took him out
of contention this year.


  138.   petty43 posted:
  10.16.2010 - 8:19 pm
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well if the 48 has issues tonight this thing is wide the hell open


  139.   petty43 posted:
  10.16.2010 - 8:21 pm
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post 136
20 bucks a pop plus parking


  140.   petty43 posted:
  10.16.2010 - 8:29 pm
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post 137 i agree with all you said there

and maybe kyle carl and others who run n wide and trucks, should take a
look at what driver 48 does. he never runs those races and he is always
fresh and always winning. this is a dumbass comparison, but i am a
dumbass sometimes so here goes. i am sure that jim caldwell would not
let peyton manning go play on saturdays at tennesee (college) and also
play at his alma mater high school on fridays. similarly joe gibbs needs
to get in kyle's face and tell him to quit wasting his time with that
series, it needs to come down to that, joe just needs to focus kyle on
cup, obviously i hope he does not do that. anything to keep kyle away
from winning a cup is what i will like to see


  141.   Anonymous posted:
  10.16.2010 - 9:33 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Kyle? Never had to worry about him because I knew he'd bomb in the
cha$e like he always does."

I find it amazing that anyone who claims to watch racing thinks that
Kyle Busch will never compete for a championship. It's just....
unbelievably stupid.

Hey DSFF, want to make a bet on whether or not Busch ever finishes
within 50 points of the title? Let's say, $5000? Put up or shut up.


  142.   Kit posted:
  10.16.2010 - 11:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Tony Stewart: Nothing against Tony personally, but his overall
performance this year just hasn't been strong enough to warrant a
championship."

Ehh, Tony's personality can be as bad as Harvick's at times, but it's
here and there.


  143.   Red posted:
  10.17.2010 - 12:15 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Ehh, Tony's personality can be as bad as Harvick's at times, but it's
here and there."

I find Tony much more likeable since he became an owner. I think it's
humbled him, and he realizes that racing really is a team effort, so he
doesn't throw his team under the bus like he did with Gibbs. Also, he
seems to actually man up to his mistakes now, unlike in the past when
he'd blame the other driver no matter what.

"I find it amazing that anyone who claims to watch racing thinks that
Kyle Busch will never compete for a championship. It's just....
unbelievably stupid."

I think Kyle will win a championship or two at some point, based on
sheer talent alone. But he'll probably give away twice as many as he wins.


  144.   petty43 posted:
  10.17.2010 - 2:57 am
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where is the new race


  145.   Daniel posted:
  05.21.2012 - 4:42 pm
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In using fastest 43: #26 Patrick Carpentier & #55 Mike Bliss

Out using fastest 43: #7 Kevin Conway & #71 Andy Lally


  146.   Jason24 posted:
  11.27.2019 - 7:37 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

This was the last time Fontana was run in the fall. 2010 was also the
last time Fontana had two Cup race weekends.


  147.   rm posted:
  03.25.2020 - 12:55 pm
   Rate this comment:      (1)      (0)

From the annals of strange-but-true: while this was Jamie McMurray's 7th
pole in the Cup series, this was the first time he led lap 1 from the pole.


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