|| *Comments on the 2011 5-Hour Energy 500:* View the most recent comment <#191> | Post a comment <#post> 1. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Glad they brought shifting back. It made the race more interesting I thought. Nice to see green racing and lots of green pit stops. NASCAR only threw a few debris cautions. Progress for them i guess. Congrats to Jeff for tying Darrell on the win list (still 1 behind Bobby, I don't care what the suits say), even though tv barely mentioned it. I like the commentators though. Harvick tries to mess with Kyle and finishes behind him. How many times has Kevin done this? Him getting mad at people is like a good luck charm for them. Props to the Pocono crowd. They just about filled the place. 2. Anonymous85 posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well this was a hell of a race if you were a Jeff Gordon fan just like the 95 Brickyard 400 was a hell of a race if you were a fan of you know who but if you were not both races were very boring and not effective at all 3. hyperacti posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As soon as they brought shifting back I knew Jeff Gordon was going to have a good race. 4. Anonymous posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "(still 1 behind Bobby, I don't care what the suits say)" Herp. 5. mrittenhouse84 posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Breaking news: Per Harvick's spotter on twitter, Kyle Busch's car is on his 3rd time through the height sticks. 5:34 pm 6/12/2011 6. Smokefan05 posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can't wait too see how many people think the race was boring. :-P Big Daddy is tied with Bobby A. and DW for 3rd all time in wins, more impressive then "total" wins. ;-) Ever since Kurt Busch went off on the radio, Penske Racing is doing alot better. Except for Brad today, the cars did pretty well. Kevin and Kyle playing mind games with each other was funny. There both pricks. Tony broke 3rd gear and went off on the radio like a little girl blaming NASCAR for it. Hey dumba$$, your the one shifting not NASCAR. Good pull your head outta your a$$ Tony. -_- Good race overall with a former champ finding his form. 7. Greg posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't Carl Edwards score a DNF in this race? 8. JimmieJohnsonsNeatlyTrimmedBeard posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's easy to forget Gordon is still in his 30s. I know he doesn't plan on driving for a ton of years, but I haven't given up on seeing him win 100 races. A lot of guys won races well into their 40s. Bobby Allison, Dale Earnhardt, Darrell Waltrip, they all won more than 10 races after age 40. It's more a question of can Gordon's body hold up as he nears 700 to 800 starts in the next 5 years. If he can get on a run, he can still win in bunches. 9. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin Truex Jr finishes 10th and DR 13rd for Michael Waltrip Racing while this weekend team owner Robert Kauffman is involved in a massive accident in which he collided with an Audi R18 prototype while being lapped at Le Mans, sending the Audi head on into the barriers at over 200 miles per hour. Good to see Gordon is starting to get good at burn outs again, and as for Busch and Harvick? Well, what do you expect... 10. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "just like the 95 Brickyard 400 was a hell of a race if you were a fan of you know who" I think the racing at the '95 Brickyard 400 sucked and I use that to point out where the racing in NASCAR started going downhill, and take a look at my screen name. I thought this race was alright once the sun came out and they had all those green flag stops. 11. Darrell posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Greg, no he came out at the very end. But we were "blessed" with his brilliant commentary throughout the race. [/sarcasm] I didn't find this race horrid, but not great either. Hamlin had it in the bag till his brakes went. Interestingly, every caution was for debris. Landon Cassill had himself a nice run before he had to pit near the end. 12. 00andJoe posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #7: No. He came back out with 4 to go. 13. Anonymous85 posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BTW @ Dalesrfanforever I am aware that you did not like the 95 Brickyard 400 in the words of bill Weber I looked it up so you didn't have to 14. DieselDan posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nope. Edwards was running at the end, 147 laps down. 15. Schroeder51 posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, Carl did. He dropped a valve and never returned to the garage. TNT says he did, but according to NASCAR.com's live leaderboard he never actually did. He was even in the broadcast booth doing commentary towards the end of the race! Just when a few weeks ago I had resigned myself to Jeff Gordon no longer being relevent in NASCAR, he wins again. 1 more win and he will be the all-time winner in Cup since the modern era began. 16. Anonymous85 posted: 06.12.2011 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry if I am coming off as rude I try not to be a troll on this discussion board 17. Schroeder51 posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Never returned to the RACE, my bad. 18. roygbiv posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did you even watch the race Smokefan? Kyle didn't do anything to Harvick, it was all Harvick. Kyle passed him cleanly early in the race and Harvick forced him to the pit road wall. Then later on, Harvick got on Kyle's bumper and pushed him down the frontstretch into turn 1. Harvick was the only one trying to play "mind" games. 19. 00andJoe posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #13/14: He did, and we saw him cross the start-finish line, in fact. Unless there was a relief driver in the #99? 20. 00andJoe posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owners' points by highest finishing car: 1. Roush, 579 2. Hendrick, 568 3. Gibbs, 565 4. Childress, 556 5. Penske, 492 6. Stewart-Haas, 473 7. Petty, 458 8. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 444 9. Red Bull, 431 10. Waltrip, 407 11. Furniture Row, 311 12. JTG-Daughtery, 303 13. Front Row, 257 14. Phoenix, 225 15. Baldwin, 221 16. Germain, 212 17. FAS Lane, 210 18. Robby Gordon, 171 19. Wood Brothers, 169 20. TRG, 168 21. Gunselman, 109 22. Whitney, 64 23. HP, 44 24. NEMCO, 39 25. Wallace, 24 --. Inception, 24 27. Leavine, 14 28. Falk, 11 29. K-Automotive, 9 21. GDR posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18 fails post race inspection 22. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After seeing Ambrose qualify so well, I decided to get up early and watch this one live. I thought it was an ok race, not great, but not terrible either, although I was switching back and forth between the Canadian Grand Prix at the end. "Glad they brought shifting back. It made the race more interesting I thought. " I didn't pay a lot of attention during the build up to the race, so what do you mean by "brought shifting back"? Was it a rule that they couldn't shift or something, or did they change the diff/gearbox ratios? 23. Schroeder51 posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He did cross the finish line? I never saw him cross the finish line but I do remember seeing NASCAR.com listing him on the leaderboard as having completed only 59 laps-before the last lap, even. 24. joey2448 posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Other than the excessive commercials, I think TNT does a fine job at calling the race. I love Kyle's commentary, and Wally's not bad either. My favorite driver in both NASCAR and F1 won today (Jensen Button), so I'm a happy man. When Landon Cassill was leading, he was yelling "rain!" and I was like, "no no, no caution". Haha good to see them go green the rest of the way... 25. Bronco posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most boring event of the season, far worse than even the one from Dover. Highly appropriate that 5-Hour Energy decided to sponsor this one. Jeff Gordon ties Bill Elliott for all time Pocono wins with 5. All his top 10s this year have been top 5s. This is the first time that he scores consecutive top 5 finishes since he did 5 in a row last summer from Michigan to Chicago. Dale Jr equals his top 10 output from last year, of 8 top 10s and 3 top 5s in four months less time, which further shows just how bad Lance McGrew's cars from 2009-2010 must have been. Heartbreak for Carl to have an engine problem while running in the top 5, but his commentary was refreshing and interesting. He definitely has the best TV broadcasting future out of any current Cup driver. 26. Ryan posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle and the 18 team wasn't focused today and that is why that failed post race inspection. 27. 00andJoe posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51: Yeah, they cut to him crossing the line, last car to do so (right behind Cassill, and slow enough he just stopped and turned onto pit road the "wrong way" to head to the garage). Bronco: Kansas was more boring than this one, I thought. 28. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah Landon was praying pretty hard for something he knew in all honesty wasn't going to happen, it was still pretty funny when I heard that. Juan Pablo probably had the best car, I'm not sure what Brian Pattie was thinking with all those 2 tire stops... Sam Hornish Jr. returns to the Cup series and finishes 35th. -_- I don't see any problem with what Harvick did, if your going to get in the head of your rival, do it at one of the more boring tracks on the circuit. No one will even remember this tomorrow. 29. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's official, 18 fails post race inspection and will be brought to the R&D center. This one we actually can't blame on Kyle. But that is yet another bit of controversy for that team. And after the race Harvick said he wants Kyle to know he has one coming. I guess he has scrapped his championship plans. Feuds are fun to watch for the fans, but not very smart for the drivers. I guess we can just go ahead and chalk up 6 in a row for the 48 unless the 99 keeps up their blistering pace all year (unlikely given their past history). "BTW @ Dalesrfanforever I am aware that you did not like the 95 Brickyard 400 in the words of bill Weber I looked it up so you didn't have to" Lol. 30. Cooper posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper's interesting fact of the race: --With an average speed of 145.384MPH, this becomes the fastest Pocono race in NASCAR history. You don't have to look this up because I already did. 31. Anonymous85 posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NO NOOOOO The 48 will not win another championship this season they will crumble before the might of the opposing teams 32. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "he just stopped and turned onto pit road the "wrong way" to head to the garage)." Carl Edwards did this twice today. I was pretty surprised he was allowed to do that. 33. JimmieJohnsonsNeatlyTrimmedBeard posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle and the 18 team wasn't focused today and that is why that failed post race inspection." So how was watching your first ever race? I can't even remember when I was so new to NASCAR that I had no idea how anything worked. Don't worry, you'll pick it up eventually. 34. Anonymous posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle and the 18 team wasn't focused today and that is why that failed post race inspection." Apparently they "unfocused" their way from 34th to 3rd, even with Kevin Harvick's pussy attempt at intimidation. Now if only the driver had anything to do with the height of the car, you might be close to something resembling a coherent point. 35. nascarfreak99 posted: 06.12.2011 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I tried TNT's Million Dollar Challenge and I got knocked out by lap 100 when like 3 of my drivers had problems. Anyone else do that? 36. Pk84 posted: 06.12.2011 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So how pathetic and stupid is Kevin Harvick, and is he actively trying to get himself parked for a race? Trying to bully the 18 around while he's on probation, I mean how stupid can you be? And only someone as petty as Harvick could make Kyle Busch look more mature in his post race interview. Even if this is bugging Busch, he's not showing it, and he keeps brushing off any notion of being concerned one way or another about what Harvick or Childress are up to. And I'm sure that just pisses them off even more. What's the point in acting like a bully, when the guy you're bullying doesn't care, and he out-performs you on the track? Way to go Kevin, you're more worried about intimidating Kyle Busch (and you are NO Dale Earnhardt by the way, you just drive his car you entitled punk) than trying to win the race, or save your car. 37. woowoowoo posted: 06.12.2011 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff 'Frekin' Gordon BABY 38. IglooRacer posted: 06.12.2011 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The harvick/ busch rivalry gets better. I don't care who started it, they clearly don't like each other. To me this is great for the sport. We need a rivalry and the fact that its two of the most aggressive drivers makes it even better. Nice to see Jeff Gordon win, his career is winding down but it's great to see him competing for wins still. 39. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2011 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin is The Imitator. How can somebody in their mid 30's make Kyle Busch seem mature by comparison? 40. potatosalad48Ā® posted: 06.12.2011 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's 84th career win and the 197th Cup win for Rick Hendrick 41. Real Ryan posted: 06.12.2011 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle and the 18 team wasn't focused today and that is why that failed post race inspection." "Apparently they "unfocused" their way from 34th to 3rd, even with Kevin Harvick's pussy attempt at intimidation. Now if only the driver had anything to do with the height of the car, you might be close to something resembling a coherent point." The Ryan that posted about the 18 team and Kyle is not the one you guys think. Apparently we have an imitator in here or pot stirrer. Pretty weak post. Both quotes were probably from the same person. I would have said more like, "If you can't beat'em, cheat'em." You know Chad Knaus' motto over the years. - Real Ryan Now for the race, Hello Allison and Waltrip, and goodbye Yarborough. I guess the big questions for Jeff Gordon are... Will he win another championship? Will he win 100 races? I used to think after 2001 that both would be eclipsed by 2009, but now both are very good questions. Which will come first? Will either come at all? I'll give a little credit to Ky. Busch for having another good run at Pocono (minus the failed inspection) even though Pocono is a track where it is spread out and things don't get nearly as bunched up as it might some where else except for on the start where he might get in some trouble. Good runs by Harvick and Jr., who normally doesn't run well there. Jr. is getting closer and closer. The points race is bunched up with Edwards' problems and Denny Hamlin is not having no where near the season he had last year. Seems like he keeps having bad breaks and occassionally bad runs. I wonder if they have gotten over Homestead from last year? And Pablo with a nice run as well. 42. Real Ryan posted: 06.12.2011 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like the new the page layout and set up on this site now. I like how it breaks down things a lot better. Better detail 43. gary24fan posted: 06.12.2011 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm sure this, and the other four Gordon won at Pocono, are in the bottom 5 of all-time races at this track. Right? 44. DaleJrFan19 posted: 06.12.2011 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once again, I seem to be in the minority here who didn't enjoy the race. I'd honestly put it in the bottom three this year. At least Gordon won and we had some good racing in F1... 45. ZomBee posted: 06.12.2011 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, the page looks great, awesome change. Congrats to Jeff Gordon, it looked like an easy victory for Hamlin to me, what a shame... 46. soupclan posted: 06.12.2011 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) good for gordon.....get over it allison has 84 not 85. this is the same guy who doesn't remember much about a bunch of stuff do to a very serios accident that ended his career. and to all the harvick bashers and busch lovers...get over yourselves....harv diid nothing wrong.....never knew it was wrong to try and race a guy hard......you people act like he was trying to take busch out. hegave him a little bump the next lap....really....thatsso harmful....gave him a little bump to get him going....i forgot that everybody has to race kyle so squeeky clean like hes the most important part of nascar. of course these are the same people that believe kyle when he said he bumped childress' truck as a congratulatory bump. kyle is such a saint to these idiots. ok race....nothing great but not terrible either. 47. Anonymous posted: 06.12.2011 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Decent run for Regan Smith. 48. irony posted: 06.12.2011 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pocono has an uniqueness and natural beauty most ovals don't have. The racing however is dependent on strategy, and that didn't come into play today. Perhaps it would have without three mystery debris cautions. Harvick's mind games made things interesting in the beginning. The Montoya vs Hamlin racing was exciting in the middle. The end was anti-dramatic aside from wondering if it may rain. Overall just a decent race. 49. Daniel posted: 06.12.2011 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok race. Not the greatest, but definitely not the worst. Glad TNT is back doing the races, far better than the FOX crew. 50. RACE34 posted: 06.12.2011 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe: Kansas is way better than Pocono and who makes you the judge of tracks I mean really? 51. irony posted: 06.12.2011 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd take Pocono over Kansas 11 times out of 10. It's like a Playstation controller when I play Madden and hit the square when I should hit the circle because they look too much alike, but the triangle stands out. Bad analogy? Don't care. 52. 12345Dude posted: 06.12.2011 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) (non racing post) Lebron Lost! Lebon Lost! What a great story for Dirk and the Mavericks. Now onto racing. I thought it was a really boring race. Shocked Jeff Gordon won another race this year. But I still don't see him finishing better then 10th in standings. 53. Butch1469 posted: 06.12.2011 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I loved Kurt Busch's post race interview when he referred to Jeff Gordon as the "Golden Boy". I think I will take Kurt off my don't like list, glad Carl Edwards engine dropped a valve. 54. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2011 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "To me this is great for the sport. We need a rivalry and the fact that its two of the most aggressive drivers makes it even better." It WOULD be great for the sport were it not for the fact they are both on the VERY short list of current drivers with championship caliber talent on championship caliber teams. Their committment to fighting rather than winning is allowing the same guy to take home the Cup over and over and over and over and over again. We need more diversity of drivers winning championships, and it is not happening. Nothing against JJ, he is one of the all time greats, I already have him ranked ahead of Gordon all-time, and he deserves every last bit of his success. But it would be better for the sport if he didn't win every single year. But it is happening mostly because he and his team are so damn good, but also because his competitiors like Kyle and Kevin are stupid as hell. Nobody will remember this years from now. Whoever wins will not get any trophy for it, or be heralded years from now. But whoever wins the Cup championship will be remembered forever and have their name carved in stone. They have both already squandered parts of their prime being dumbasses, and never having their name carved in that stone like they could have. While they are going about their stupid pissing contest, Jeff Gordon just added to his already gleaming resume, and the guy that has beat them in the points standings each of the past 5 years just put himself in close striking distance of being back on top of the points despite a blow average season for them thus far. Kyle and Kevin, enjoy your time in the spotlight now, because once you retire, you will both be forgotten. Gordon, JJ, and Smoke will be the ones from your era remembered, looked back on with reverence, inducted into the Hall of Fame, held on pedestals, and pointed at as legends of the sport. You two will be left to wonder what could have been. One last thing: Suck It Miami!!! 55. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2011 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *below average season 56. GDR posted: 06.12.2011 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) dude you act like Kevin ran 37th because he wrecked himself trying to get back at Kyle - he finished 5th, FIFTH, and is still leading the series in wins last time I checked. and Kyle finished third for that matter, so it didn't really seem to bother either one of them. 57. 18fan posted: 06.13.2011 - 12:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #55- I think his point is Kevin seemed to care more about screwing with Kyle than running his own race. Yes, Harvick did run a good race, especially after being off sequence for a long time in the race. 58. Red posted: 06.13.2011 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "JJ, he is one of the all time greats, I already have him ranked ahead of Gordon all-time" I don't think I've ever heard someone make that argument before. How did you come to that conclusion? 59. RACE34 posted: 06.13.2011 - 1:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) irony: That was a very bad analogy it's your own opinion if the 1.5 mile tracks look the same but if you think like a crew chief you will know the tracks are not the same! 60. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.13.2011 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great job by Jeff on winning and jumping ahead of Cale and tied with DW and Bobby Allison (officially) on the all-time win list. The #42 team made a REAL questionable call taking 2 tires during that one caution when everyone else took 4. I know the tires were only 10 laps old, but how many times have we seen that before? Tons. "Tony broke 3rd gear and went off on the radio like a little girl blaming NASCAR for it. Hey dumba$$, your the one shifting not NASCAR." My thoughts exactly. Just like all the other times he found it necessary to throw a fit over something, he was looking for somebody to blame when there was no one to blame. Be mad at the faulty transmission, not NASCAR. "And after the race Harvick said he wants Kyle to know he has one coming. I guess he has scrapped his championship plans. Feuds are fun to watch for the fans, but not very smart for the drivers. I guess we can just go ahead and chalk up 6 in a row for the 48 unless the 99 keeps up their blistering pace all year" Yep. Leave it to Harvick to unnecessarily add to the already spreading fire. Even though Jimmie has not been that great (winning wise) so far, I expect that to change come summer-fall. However, since I dislike both of them I couldn't care less so that's all I'm going to say on this subject. 61. JimmieJohnsonsNeatlyTrimmedBeard posted: 06.13.2011 - 5:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "dude you act like Kevin ran 37th because he wrecked himself trying to get back at Kyle - he finished 5th, FIFTH, and is still leading the series in wins last time I checked." But he's showing that this feud is still prominently on his mind, enough that he would risk getting himself parked because he wanted to, "let Busch know he has one coming" or whatever lame childish excuse he had for his actions. And Busch meanwhile focused on the race, wanted to move forward and forget about Harvick, and got a good result at one of his worst tracks. Even though Busch will probably lose 5 to 10 points because of his infraction, that's not really on him, and I doubt it gave him any sort of measurable advantage. So Busch's 3rd looks a lot better than Harvick's 5th, just because this is not a strong track for Busch. And then Harvick made Busch look considerably more mature than he is today, which is just sad, but it showed that Busch cares more about a strong finish than some one-sided feud. "I don't think I've ever heard someone make that argument before. How did you come to that conclusion?" I love JJ, but come on, who thinks he's better than Gordon? Anyone who does didn't watch NASCAR in the 90s. If you're ranking JJ ahead simply because of championships, you also must have never watched racing in the 90s. Let's be honest, the 2007 championship should have been Gordon's 5th. It was one of the best seasons put together(30 top 10s!), and Jimmie only beat him by being just a tiny bit better at the Chase tracks. At the time I enjoyed seeing it, obviously, but now with the ridiculous current run of championships after it, it makes me think Gordon needed it more in terms of his legacy. Even without the championship though, Gordon has a lot more wins, and more wins at a lot of different tracks. Wins are more important in my book, and that range of domination on every type of track (I'll admit Jimmie isn't the greatest at road courses or restrictor plate tracks) makes him better almost all around as a driver. But whats really interesting about Jimmie is he understands when he has a weakness, and then he goes and works on it until it's fixed. Which is why he finally put together a win at Sonoma, and Bristol, and he finally won at Talladega again within the last year. He doesn't have the natural ability of Gordon, but his ability to focus on a weakness and turn it into a strength is ridiculous and unmatched right now. He COULD end up greater than Gordon, there's no doubt about that, but right now he just isn't. Gordon will probably retire with 90+ wins, and Jimmie is going to need another 30 at least to get up there with Darrel Waltrip and Bobby Allison to be in that "all time greatest" talk. 62. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.13.2011 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I think his point is Kevin seemed to care more about screwing with Kyle than running his own race." Exactly. This will ruin Kevin come cha$e time. Just like he pretty much took himself out of the title hunt last year at Dover by costing himself crucial practice time denting his car up by hitting Denny. That weekend they needed all the practice time they could get with the tire situation make the track slimey (the same thing happened in this year's Dover race). He finished much worse in that race than he did in the Spring. Last year was Kevin's for the taking. The 48 team was off on speed, and the 11 team, despite having the most speed, alternated between being way too cautious (the first 5 races), way too confident (the trash talking after Texas), then way too psyched out (throwing in the towel after Phoenix even though they STILL HAD THE POINTS LEAD). Kevin showed at Dover he is more interested in being in the middle of fights than maximizing his potential as a driver. And it will happen again this year. He won't let this thing with Kyle die, so he'll be more focused on that than winning the Cup. Why do I have JJ ranked ahead of Gordon already? First and foremost, he has more championships. He won 5 in his first 9 seasons. Gordon won his 4th in his 9th season, and hasn't won since. And I don't want to hear "oh, they are all cha$e titles". I hate the cha$e, but every driver and team knows how the champion will be decided going in to the season. In 2007 they knew it all hinged on the win total after Race 26 (JJ had more) and how they ran in the final 10 (JJ was lights out with 4 straight wins), just like they knew going into 1996 they needed to be consistent. I hated that aspect of that system too, but everyone knew it. Secondly, JJ has already "re-written the record books" (copyright ESPN) in a way Gordon hasn't. 5 in a row. How it happened, I don't care (copyright Kyle Petty). Say what you want. That is incredible (copyright Kyle Petty). I take nothing from Gordon. I still have him as one of the 7 best drivers ever. He had the best season of the modern era ('98), hands down the best two season stretch of the modern era ('97 and '98, only JJ's '07 and '08 are even in the same zip code, and only barely). But JJ has the best 5 year stretch ('06-'10) for obvious reasons, which narrowly edges out Gordon's '95-'99 mind blowing stretch. And JJ has the second best 9 year stretch ('02-'10) of the modern era behind only Earnhardt's '86-'94 stretch. And if JJ keeps up anywhere close to his current pace for the next two years, he will eclipse Dale in that category. That is the thing about JJ, his ability to stay on the mountain top. Nobody else has been able to do that EVER in NASCAR. After Gordon's untouchable '97 and '98 seasons, he had a 7 win '99, but was very inconsistent. Dale followed his best two year stretch ('86 and '87) with only 3 wins in '88. He followed his '93 and '94 titles with a strong 5 win '95, but was clearly outclassed by Wonderboy until the final 7 races when they collapsed and Dale turned it up, but they were too far back. And of course his overwhelming '90 title and underwhelming '91 title was followed by an absolute dogshit 1992 season. 63. BON GORDON posted: 06.13.2011 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree the with jj's beard man post above 100%. By the way congrats to ole big daddy for win #84! Didnt expect it to be at pocono though. Runs good there but never seems to be good enough or have everything fall into place like today. Anyway, awesome win. 64. August West posted: 06.13.2011 - 11:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Love the new look to the site!!! I had carl this week, I am buying lunch. :( 65. 00andJoe posted: 06.13.2011 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #59: "it's your own opinion if the 1.5 mile tracks look the same but if you think like a crew chief you will know the tracks are not the same! " Maybe so. But we're not crew chiefs, we're fans. So how a crew chief thinks or sees the track is irrelevant. It's how the fans see it that's important, and what the fans see at 1.5 mile tracks is same-ish cookie-cuttering. 66. Scott B posted: 06.13.2011 - 12:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few notes, some already mentioned: Carl Edwards lost most of his points lead due to the #99's extended stay behind the wall for repairs after dropping a valve. He came into the race with a 40 point cushion over JJ, and leaves with a slim 6 point lead. Junior now trails Carl by 10 points and Harvick 11. Carl spent time in the TNT broadcast booth and returned to the track just long enough to avoid an official DNF by having the car cross the finish line running. Denny Hamlin and the #11 team seemed to have the field covered easily in the early going, but later tire and brake troubles dropped them back to a 19th place finish. He did lead the most laps, 76. Jamie McMurray finished 33rd, 11 laps down, after his team changed a transmission and sent him back out on the track. Several other teams reported clutch or tranny issues, though the #1 team was the only one to make a swap. Kyle Busch's #18 failed post race inspection, penalties not yet announced. There were four cautions, all for debris. The second of the four replaced a scheduled competition caution. Sam Hornish Jr made his first start of the year, bringing the #38 home in 35th place. Scott Riggs qualified for his first start of the year in the #81, doing a start and park for last place. Scott Wimmer made his second start of the year in Robby Gordon's #7, parking for a 38th place finish after leading one lap under caution by not pitting. Landon Cassill led four laps late in the race in James Finch's #51 while out of sequence on pit stops. He finished 24th, the last car on the lead lap. He also gets my award for best radio chatter for his claim it was raining all over the track while he was leading. :0 Andy Lally was the top finishing rookie, in 32nd place 6 laps down. Yeah, that's 6 laps down at a 2.5 mile track, not six laps down at Bristol... and in the era of lucky dogs and wave-arounds. In spite of that, he appears to be a lock for the rookie of the year award, making him the least deserving winner since way back in... well, last year, when Kevin Conway won. ;0 Kurt Busch finished second after starting from the pole. 67. Smokefan05 posted: 06.13.2011 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "(non racing post) Lebron Lost! Lebon Lost! What a great story for Dirk and the Mavericks." Yeah, the Heat lost but they are one year ahead of the curve. Mavs earned it big time, Dirk has one more left in him i believe. Lebron will get his championship in the future. "It's how the fans see it that's important" Uh no it isn't. No offense but NASCAR shouldn't care what we think. There are millions of us watching NASCAR and we all view stuff differently. I'm sure some of us can agree on things but not everything. As far as Harvick goes, if he can keep running up front while making 128s live a living hell then more power to him. 68. GDR posted: 06.13.2011 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin isn't exactly a world-beater at Pocono - a 5th for him is a pretty good run there. And the thing with Denny didn't affect him at Dover, he was running about 6th or 7th most of the day until his pit crew starting losing 2 or 3 spots every pit stop from about lap 250 on, and he couldn't make them back up. The thing that affected Kevin most in the Chase last year was starting behind the 11 and the 48...he ran as well as they did, but when you're starting in a hole to two great teams, even if you're as consistent as the 29 is, you're going to have difficulty making up those points. That's why it's absolutely imperative to me that he picks up wins when he can the rest of the season, and there are a lot of good tracks coming up for them, and starts with the lead this year - the 29 is so consistent that if he can go in with a 20 or 30 point lead, I feel very confident they will win the title. Feuds or no feuds. 69. Scott B posted: 06.13.2011 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #18 Penalty announced, $25,000 fine and loss of 6 owner/driver points. Couple other notes... #21 Wood Brothers car remained in the top 35 owners points (by just 2 points over the #7) in spite of skipping this race on their part-time schedule. #60 Big Red Toyota with Mike Skinner was the only DNQ for this race. Skinner lost control during his qualifying run, doing a long slide through the grass and into the inside retaining wall nearly head on. No injury to Mike, but front clip of the car was demolished. 70. Talon64 posted: 06.13.2011 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon picked up his 2nd win of 2011 (his first multiple-win season since 2007, also the last time he won at Pocono), his 5th win at Pocono (tying him with Bill Elliott for the most all time at the track) and 84th career Cup win to tie him with Darrell Waltrip and Bobby Allison for 3rd all time. JG is also tied with DW for the most wins in the modern era with 84. Hendrick Motorsports gets their 197th Cup win and 12th at Pocono (5th most at any track; JG with 5, Tim Richmond with 3, Jimmie Johnson with 2, Geoffrey Bodine and Terry Labonte with 1 each). Kurt Busch won his 14th career Cup pole, the first time he's had consecutive poles since 2006 when he ended up tying for the most poles with 6. It's also the 3rd consecutive pole for Penske Racing, the first time they've done that since 2007 (all by Ryan Newman). It was Kurt's first pole at Pocono after 4 previous starts of 2nd. Kurt finishes 2nd at Pocono for a 5th time (18 career runner-up finishes), his 8th top 5 in 21 starts there (16.1 average finish). Kurt's led laps at Pocono in 10 of the last 13 races. Kyle Busch ties Carl Edwards for the most top 5's this season with his 7th of the season. It's his 3rd top 5 in the last 6 races, and only his 3rd top 5 in 13 Pocono starts (18.6 avg fin) but 2nd in the last 3 races. Jimmie Johnson gets his first top 5 in 6 races but his 4th top 10 in that span (11.8 avg fin). It's Jimmie's 3rd straight top 10 at Pocono and 7th in the last 8 races with the other finish being 13th (6.6 average finish). His 13th top 10's at Pocono is tied for his 4th most at any track. Kevin Harvick has only 5 top 5's in 21 starts, but got his 3rd straight top 5 there, his 4th in the last 6 races and all 5 have come in the last 10 (9.9 avg fin, career 14.0 avg fin at Pocono). Dale Earnhardt Jr. has his 2nd 3 race top 10 streak of the season after having none in the previous 2 seasons. It's Dale Jr.'s first top 10 at Pocono in the last 6 races (19.8 average finish). JPM gets his first top 10 in 8 races (20.4 average finish) but his 4th top 10 in his last 5 Pocono starts (8.2 avg fin). Matt Kenseth has 1 win and 3 top 10's in the last 4 races, going from 10th to 7th in the standings in that span. He was the highest finishing Ford in the race, getting his first top 10 in his last 6 Pocono starts but hasn't finished worse than 18th in his last 11 (1 top 5, 4 top 10's, 11.8 average finish). After starting the season with 4 top 10's in 5 races (2nd in pts), Ryan Newman gets just his 2nd top 10 in the last 9 (9th in pts). A lot like Kenseth, Newman only has 5 top 10's in 12 races but no finish worse than 18th and a 10.75 average finish. Martin Truex Jr. and crew chief Chad Johnston get a 10th place finish in their first race working together. It's Truex's 3rd top 10 in the last 5 races and 2nd straight top 10 at Pocono (4th in 11 starts, 15.6 avg fin). Joey Logano gets just his 5th top 15 finish of the season. Regan Smith gets his 13th career top 15 finish in 109 starts, 5 coming this season. Denny Hamlin leads the most laps for the 3rd time in the last 4 Pocono races, but fails to win for the first time at Pocono when he's done so. Brad Keselowski's 23rd place finish drops him to 22nd in pts, 13 back of 20th. 71. Talon64 posted: 06.13.2011 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chad Johnston was Martin Truex Jr.'s CC for this race. 72. 12345Dude posted: 06.13.2011 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I can't really say much, about the whole Gordon vs. Johnson debate, since I started watching nascar in 2002. But I will say this. It doesn't matter who you think is better now, because after Jimmie Johnson wins the title this year, it will be pretty clear that he is better then Gordon. I could see, Jimmie winning 10, 11 titles in a row. At least. And this is why. His Drive, it's scary. I don't think we even see half of it. The guy just has such a drive. It's amazing. I've never seen a guy want to win, more then him. He's also an amazing driver. Just amazing. I agree with people on here that Stewart has more raw talent (more on him later), but Jimmie has to be #2. He also has the best equipment and the best crew chief in the game. But I think this is also a key. Look at all the top drivers in nascar. One way or another, they have all screwing them self out of the title. Kurt Busch: He was so good, when I first started watching nascar. But he's stuck at Penske. Sure they have gotten better, but there not going to be a title contender. And he only has himself to blame. His attitude cost him his spot as Roush. And if he could just stop complaining for 5 seconds during a race, it would be nice. Kevin Harvick: These are his priorities. 1. (I agree with DSFF) Be the center of attention, always. Either it means, wrecking people. Getting in fights. Or making fun, or a competitor. And donā??t forget being a complete a**. 2. KHI 3. Winning nationwide and truck races. 4. The Title Other Problems: Consistent finish always comes first. Then if it's possible, then try to win. Yeah that's the thing you should do if you want to win a title (in the chase). His attitude. I know for a fact that Clint Boyer and Jeff Burton (yes Jeff Burton!), can't stand his attitude. But they shut their lip. Also, next time this guy is 18th in the standings get nascar raceview (or what ever the name is), and listen to his in car audio. Listening to him in 08 was the most disgusting thing I ever heard. One bad year, and he does enough damage with his mouth, to hurt his team for the next 3 years. After last year, he said ā??one of these days we will win a title, begin consistent. What! No, you should think you will win the title next year. And the year after that, and the year after that. And by being consistent? Really?! Kyle Busch My dad, who hates nascar said it the best. "Why is Kyle Busch running all these nationwide and truck races? If I had a driver, I would want him to focus on Cup, and Cup only". I mean (thanks racing-reference), last year he races 18,551 laps. 7,944 of them could have been avoided. And that's not counting practice 1, and 2. Happy Hour, and Qualifying (for all those races). Along with extra travel time. This guy is racing way too much. Plus he races, more then just in nascarā??s 3 series. If he was just focused on the cup series, he would save him self SO much energy. Also this "new Kyle Busch" is crap. Let's look at the feuds he, has has HALF WAY into the year. Kyle Busch vs. Kevin Harvick Kyle Busch vs. Carl Edwards Kyle Busch vs. Richard Childress Kyle Busch vs. Joey Coulter And there's probably, a lot more I am missing. Carl Edwards: He's too streaky. Also is obsessed with the nationwide series. And he also has major attitude problems. Dale Earnhardt Junior: Doesn't have any self confidence. I think with Letarte he can win some races. But I don't think he has the drive, or mental toughness to win a title. Denny Hamlin: Who knows how long he is going to be in "why did I lose in 2010" mode. Jeff Gordon: I don't think we will ever see Gordon win another title. His energy is gone. And I was shocked he won another race this year. He's in a mood thatā??s way too relaxed. He's lost his fire. His edge. Heā??s just happy with his wife and kid. He's happy with a 5th place, instead of going for the win. Tony Stewart: This is the big one. I'm surprised more people don't mention this. Why did he decide to own his own team? Could you imagine, with the raw talent this guy has, how good he could be at Gibbs now that he has finally grown up. This guy if he was at Gibbs, could not only beat Johnson. But he could win 3-4 titles in a row at least. Owning his own team is the worst thing he ever did. Hendrick will never give them the best equipment during the chase. Ok long post over. The only two I can see beating him are Kasey Kahne, and Matt Kenseth. But I don't think he wins enough, and you need to do that to win the title (with the chase). Plus the new talent pool, is so dry. 73. 12345Dude posted: 06.13.2011 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hope no one falls asleep while reading my post. I just needed to let off, some steam. 74. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2011 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also this "new Kyle Busch" is crap. Let's look at the feuds he, has has HALF WAY into the year. Kyle Busch vs. Kevin Harvick Kyle Busch vs. Carl Edwards Kyle Busch vs. Richard Childress Kyle Busch vs. Joey Coulter And there's probably, a lot more I am missing." First off, there is nothing going on with Edwards, it was a one race accident that Busch immediately took the blame for and we haven't heard anything about since. The other 3 can simply be summed up as Kyle Busch vs. RCR, but then that wouldn't be sensationalist enough for you I'm guessing. 75. GDR posted: 06.13.2011 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) and Kevin being an a$$ to Richard in 2008 set in motion the changes that have made the 29 one of the best teams in NASCAR the past two years - it's funny guys like DSFF give all the credit in the world to Kurt Busch for peeling Roger Penske and his team and running good two weeks in a row but when Kevin does it, it's just Kevin being a jerk. And saying that winning a Cup title isn't priority one for the 29 or for Richard Childress Racing is laughable. Kevin cut his Nwide and Truck schedule way down this year and has people in place to run KHI. 76. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.13.2011 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I will say this: Gordon's dominating best was better than JJ's dominating best. But JJ's ability to avoid bad seasons is out of this world. Take Earnhardt for example. His prime seasons ('86 through his '96 Dega wreck) were amazing. In those 11 seasons, he won the championship 6 times and only finished worse than THIRD in points twice. One of which was his 4th place 1996 finish which would have been Top 3 if not for his wreck. But the other one was the turd in his punchbowl. 1992 is unexplainable. He finished 12th in points, and only won once. He needed all 600 miles at Charlotte and the people monitoring pit road speeds apparently being asleep to win that one race. He didn't come close to any other wins. Sure it was a Ford dominated year, but 12th in points? Those are the years JJ has avoided so far. Always fast, never erratic, and completely unflappable. That is why I have him ahead of Gordon, an undeniable legend. "And the thing with Denny didn't affect him at Dover" He lost 30 minutes of practice while his crew had to patch up meaningless dents. In 2006 at Atlanta, he skipped final practice entirely to go race a Busch race in Memphis even though he had already clinched the championship in that division. He finished 31st. 2 of the next 3 races were on 1.5 mile tracks (Texas and Homestead). He finished Top 5 in both. Hmmmmm. "the 29 is so consistent that if he can go in with a 20 or 30 point lead, I feel very confident they will win the title. Feuds or no feuds." Even if they do end up with that cushion, Kyle will happily erase it for them. Kyle is a notorious cha$e choker, so he will probably be out of it early because he is every year. With nothing else to gain, he will have no problem settling an old score. The 29 will have a tough time matching the 48 in crunch time, their time, as it is. Putting himself in position to be taken out due to his silly rivalries? Forget about it. "As far as Harvick goes, if he can keep running up front while making 128s live a living hell then more power to him." But he can't topple the blue and silver juggernaut doing that. Even with Kevin's best start ever (3 wins, he has never had more than 1 at this point before), and JJ having one of his slowest starts ever (only twice before has he had just 1 win at this point: '03 and '08), he is still ahead of them in points. The only way he will reach his potential as a driver is to put every bit of his focus on making his cars as good as possible. Fueds only get in the way. 77. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.13.2011 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) 12345dude, you are absolutely right. The fact that JJ's competition is so mentally unstable is what will hinder his legacy a bit, not "him being a product of the cha$e" or "having the best crew chief ever". 78. Talon64 posted: 06.13.2011 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is Alan Gustafson's 11th win as a CC. 79. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.13.2011 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch gets a *massive* fine of six NASCAR Sprint cup championship points and his crew chief Dave Rogers fined $25,000 for failing post race tech inspection. 80. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2011 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle Busch gets a *massive* fine of six NASCAR Sprint cup championship points and his crew chief Dave Rogers fined $25,000 for failing post race tech inspection." I don't get your sarcasm, is he supposed to be fined more than is normal for this infraction? You do know they changed the point system, and this is exactly in line with this same type of fine last year, right? 81. GDR posted: 06.13.2011 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Except Kyle has said as far as he goes he's moved on - so unless Kevin decides he's going to wall him, there's no score to settle. And as far as that goes, I don't think Kevin is going to pay him back for Darlington either because he knows deep down he got what he had coming for Homestead. I think he just wants to make things as difficult as possible for the 18 on the track (you'll notice the 27 and 31 weren't exactly cutting him a ton of slack yesterday either) and talk crap about him in the media, and that's it. 82. Eric posted: 06.13.2011 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, Tony Stewart did the right move to leave Gibbs in terms of saving the race teams he owns outside of Nascar. Tony Stewart has been a team owner outside of Nascar for a very long time and at the time he left Gibbs, GM was supporting his race teams outside of Nascar. No other GM team had a spot for Tony Stewart at the time and didn't have the support by GM as Hendrick did either. The only GM spot open at the time was at RCR before getting Casey Mears, but RCR didn't get the support as Hendrick. If Mark Martin didn't decide race full time, Stewart would have been racing for Hendrick. 83. 00andJoe posted: 06.13.2011 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #78: Given the new system, that's roughly the equivilant of a...50 point fine, I'd say, under the old system? Anyway, Michigan entry list is out. 47 cars: -The #21 with Bayne is entered -Stremme in the #30 -Bliss in the #32 -T.J. Bell in the #50 -Riggs in the #81 -Brian K. in the #92 84. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.13.2011 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "As far as Harvick goes, if he can keep running up front while making 128s live a living hell then more power to him." That will be interesting to see. Beating that blue and white #48 car is difficult enough even without that going on. All it took for Carl Edwards and Denny Hamlin to lose a cha$e championship to them was one mistake, and all it took in 2007 was great luck at the right time. And as far as who is better between Gordon and Johnson, I think Jimmie will end up being known as the better driver by many when both of their careers are over because of Jimmie's championship total which is still counting. However, Jimmie hasn't shown the domination on the road courses that Jeff has throughout his career. It's kind of hard for me to rank Jimmie ahead because of that, but if he wins a couple more championships I will probably have no problem ranking Jimmie ahead. 85. Smokefan05 posted: 06.13.2011 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ It'd be 25 points. 86. Scott B posted: 06.13.2011 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian K may be in a Chevy at Michigan, instead of a Dodge. He had been considering a manufacturing switch. Jayski has him listed in a Chevy, but the Keso website makes no mention. 87. RACE34 posted: 06.13.2011 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #65: Your opinion is great i'm just saying not every fan hates 3/4 of the tracks on Nascar's schedule! 88. ugabugaviva posted: 06.13.2011 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YES!!! GORDON WON! HOPEFULLY IT IS HIS TIME FOR 5! 89. 12345dude posted: 06.13.2011 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) what happen to my post 90. Ryan posted: 06.13.2011 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In the old system if you scored 180-190 points and had a fine like the 18 team did you was penalized 14-15 percent of your points which was around 25. It appears they are doing the same thing with the new system. He scored 42 points and they penalized him 6 points, which is about 14-15 percent. You might ask why did I just mention 180-190 points or the guys that got 41-48 points, well usually Nascar takes the first three finishing cars or first three finishing car makes and does an aerodyamic test on them. "Sure it was a Ford dominated year, but 12th in points?" It was, I think they won 13-14 races in a row dating to the end of '91 and til the 600 when Dale broke the string of Ford wins. Ford got a lot at the beginning of the year. He ran ok at Daytona, he didn't have a dominant car like he had the previous two years there ('91 didn't seem like he did, but he did lead a lot of laps and did hit the bird which affected the aero package) or any where else it seemed like. I think he got to 2nd in the points at Pocono that year and then fell off a good lot. Ford just dominated that year plain and simple. Kulwicki, Elliott, Allison, Martin, and Bodine dominated that year. The pontiacs of Kyle Petty and Rusty had a little bit of success along with Ernie Irvin in the 4 car and Darrell Waltrip getting lucky at Darlington, but everything that went wrong for Dale that year did, along with Ford's dominance and their cry to catch up with RCR and Dale. "him being a product of the cha$e" Johnson is a product of the Chase, his better tracks are during that time and his Cheating Chief and himself even admitted it. "Fueds only get in the way" That's not true, Earnhardt proved that theory wrong, and you know that. "Kevin cut his Nwide and Truck schedule way down this year and has people in place to run KHI." Exactly, more proof he is more focused than ever. 91. Ryan posted: 06.13.2011 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) On ESPN tonight, it showed The Top 10 "I finally did it". Some of you probably watched it. Earnhardt's '98 Daytona 500 win was #2 on their list (only behind John Elway's Super Bowl win). Of course it's numero uno on my list. I still get chill bumps watching Dale holding up his hand right before he crosses the finish line on the 200th lap. Even Mike Joy said on TV that Dale had said, "If John Elway can win the Super Bowl (who won 3 weeks earlier), I can win the Daytona 500." 92. soupclan posted: 06.13.2011 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ok let me examine some of the idiotic statements happening around here Johnson greater than gordon....this is so assanine its funny. yes jimmie has 5 championships. yes everyone knows the way a champion is determine nowadays but it still doesn't make it right. twice gordon has been robbed of a championship (04 and 07) whether you like it or not consistency far outweighs winning races. if you win 10 races but those are your only top 10's of the year you aren't entitled to a championship. jeff would have won both those years running away....especially 2007...one of the best seasons EVER!!!!! 30 Top 10's in 36 races (6 wins) would have won by over 300 pts but gets screwed because jimmie won 4 in a row late in the year....the first 26 races become irrelevant which isn't right. i still believe the championship leader after the first 26 races should be the points leader heading into the chase regardless of how many wins you have. Jimmie has onnly really been a deserving champion twice. 06 and 09. Jeff i think can win another championship....not this year though. kevin can't win a championship because he is distracted by KyB....ahh.despit playing with KyB at Pocono. still finishes 5th.....despite a blown motorto pen at Daytona. and being taken out blatently at Darlington by KyB. Kevin would be leading the points...and hes distracted????? really..... other than carl vs brad what has carl edwards done to offend people...the man in grave dissapointment never rejects aninterview...he is always gracious in defeat.....gives his time to join the commentators and comment on a race he was just a part of to add a different perspective....Carl is an awesome guy and i believe at the end it will be between carl, kevin & jimmie to decide this years champion. 1 thing i do agree on is tony not getting the best eqipment come chase time.....this is Rick Hendrick were talking about here. i think tony needs to grow the organization so that they can have their own eqipment and not get sloppy seconds from Rick. 93. irony posted: 06.13.2011 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) JJ has been better than Jeff over the last decade in the same equipment. I don't think it's such an idiotic opinion if someone thinks JJ is better. We can't say what would have happened without a chase because it's so obvious that the 48 team treats the first 26 races as a big practice session. 94. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.13.2011 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) 6 points? Seriously? I know that is the equivalent of 25 points in the past, but it failed inspection and had to be brought to the R&D Center. NASCAR is always looking for "entertainment" angles. So why didn't they find Clint Bowyer and put a camera on him when they announced this so we could watch his head explode, and rightfully so. He got maximum points at Loudon last year, but had the wrong height and after his 150 point penalty got little more than last place points. The 18 team should have got at least a 40 point penalty. " it's funny guys like DSFF give all the credit in the world to Kurt Busch for peeling Roger Penske and his team and running good two weeks in a row but when Kevin does it, it's just Kevin being a jerk." First of all, I ripped Kurt for doing that. I just pointed out that it has led to quite a Penske Racing resurgance, and have talked about how I am personally thrilled at how it has got my favorite active driver out of the Sprint Cup Witness Protection Program. I have never condoned how Kurt went about it. Secondly, Kurt hasn't gone public talking about moving on to another organization like Kevin did in 2009. Big difference. Granted no other high profile organization would want him. He has completely trashed Hendrick Motorsports as an organization and their drivers in public, JGR has enough headaches as it is with just one Busch, and he has burned his bridge at Roush Racing, pissed on the ashes, then lit those ashes on fire. But still. The fact is they are both jerks. "And saying that winning a Cup title isn't priority one for the 29 or for Richard Childress Racing is laughable." Then why is he so worried about going after Kyle? If he truly cared about the championship, he and RCR would just ignore Kyle knowing he always disappears in the cha$e, and only worry about matching the 48 and 99 on raw speed. "so unless Kevin decides he's going to wall him, there's no score to settle." That is pretty much exactly what Kevin said he's gonna do now that he is off probation. Besides, they are both so hot headed and able to be derailed in the heat of the moment, they are each just one bump away from starting a war again. "Johnson is a product of the Chase, his better tracks are during that time and his Cheating Chief and himself even admitted it." Those are the tracks they are best at because THOSE ARE THE TRACKS THEY FOCUS ON! Seriously, is it a coincidence that JJ's "worst" tracks: Michigan, Bristol, Daytona, the road courses, are not in the cha$e? Of how about him sweeping Darlington in 2004, NASCAR taking it out of the cha$e, and him not winning there since? "That's not true, Earnhardt proved that theory wrong, and you know that." Earnhardt is in his own league. He could do lots of things nobody else could do. 95. Ryan posted: 06.13.2011 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Those are the tracks they are best at because THOSE ARE THE TRACKS THEY FOCUS ON!" Why do they continue to say that though? And it's proven that they are his better tracks... New Hampshire, Dover, cookie cutters, Lowes err... Charlotte... they are all in the Chase. So you're saying if there wasn't a Chase they would still have 5 in a row? That they're just experimenting the first 20 races? 96. Eric posted: 06.13.2011 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I do agree with Stewart needing to build his own equipment and read about Stewart wanting to do that step according to one of the espn chats I read within in the last month. What I got from the chat was cost is an issue for them. That is where Tony Stewart made a mistake in being a cup owner. Tony Stewart is very successful owner in racing outside of Nascar for many years for series like in USAC, and World of Outlaws for an example and has won championships as an owner. Those series don't cost as much to run compare to a cup team. Building his own equipment should be the least of his problems. His team gave away multiple wins this season because of his pit crew or himself. 97. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.13.2011 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "twice gordon has been robbed of a championship (04 and 07) " *sigh* 98. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2011 - 2:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't believe the 18 team only got a 6 point penalty. It even sounds like a joke. 6 points will make no differnce. 99. IglooRacer posted: 06.14.2011 - 8:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Six points = a 9th place finish instead of a 3rd for kyle busch 100. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2011 - 9:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "6 points? Seriously? I know that is the equivalent of 25 points in the past, but it failed inspection and had to be brought to the R&D Center. NASCAR is always looking for "entertainment" angles. So why didn't they find Clint Bowyer and put a camera on him when they announced this so we could watch his head explode, and rightfully so. He got maximum points at Loudon last year, but had the wrong height and after his 150 point penalty got little more than last place points. The 18 team should have got at least a 40 point penalty." Except that Bowyer's chassis wasn't sitting on the frame properly, and they were warned about pushing the limits the race before, and they ended up winning the race. These aren't identical infractions, and they don't deserve identical penalties. NASCAR got it right. "I can't believe the 18 team only got a 6 point penalty. It even sounds like a joke. 6 points will make no differnce." Well get used to it, because the points system is different now. 6 points is going to be a normal fine, just like 25 used to be. Only idiots can't understand that the math is the same, proportionally. They just think because it's Kyle Busch, everything he does deserves to have the book thrown at him. 101. cjs3872 posted: 06.14.2011 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) What DSFF my have been referring to was that the 1995 Brickyard 400 was the race that saw the "aero-push" in NASCAR for the very first time. Rusty wallace had a faster car than Dale Earnhardt did, but the dirty air from Earnhardt's car kept him from getting close enough to make a move on him. In fact, I had mentioned that on a previous comments page. (I had been out of action for a couple of weeks while my computer was getting repaired.) Also, Gordon's win ties him only with Waltrip on the all-time list with 84, which also ties Waltrip's modern-era record. But Allison actually won 85 races. The race in question took place on August 6, 1971, which was a combination race at Winston-Salem, NC. NASCAR staged several combination races featuring Grand National and Grand American pony cars simply to fill fields, but to NASCAR's great surprise, three of those races were won by the smaller, lighter, pony cars. Two were won by 1963 Daytona 500 winner Tiny Lund and the other was won by Allison. For many years, neither were credited with their victories in the what-is-now Sprint Cup all-time victory list. A few years ago, Lund was given full credit for his wins, bringing his career total to 5, but NASCAR, to this day, refuses to give Allison the same full credit for his win, so Allison actually won 85 Cup races, not 84. Also, the win was Gordon's 279th top 5 finish, just two short of Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s modern-record of 281. Interstingly, aside from Gordon, there were only 15 other drivers that started the race that had STARTED that many races. As for the race, Carl Edwards' engine-related problem ended Ford's only shot at victory, while Denny Hamlin, Jimmie Johnson, and Dale Earnahrdt, Jr. had a long pit stop on the same pit stop cycle (Hamlin's took him out of the lead, which he never got back.), an Hamlin eventually ran into tire problems after his pit stop on lap 157. Juan Montoya's crew chief made two BAD pit calls to take on two tires, which knocked him out of contention for the win. (Montoya later joined his teammate Jamie McMurray, as well as both Stewart-Haas drivers and Marcos Ambrose as having gearbox failures of varying degrees.) That left the battle for the win to look like the one last week before fuel mileage intervened, with Kurt Busch leading and Gordon running second, but watching the race, I thought, even when Gordon was running third, that he was just biding his time, stalking the leaders, a lot like Pearson, Waltrip, and Al Unser would. Then when Gordon got the lead, he basically ran as hard as he had to to stay in front, but I think, even when he was leading the race, he never seemed to run as hard as he could. In other words, Gordon to me looked like the old Gordon on Sunday, and if that is a sign of what's to come, the other competitors, especially those that have not been around for a while, may get a sense of what it was like from 1995-2001, when Gordon was the sport's undisputed kingpin, and unlike many of today's drivers, doing so on all kinds of tracks. Interstingly, like Bobby Allison, who won 85 times, Gordon, who now has 84 wins, has never won more than 7 times on any one track, but has now won at least 5 times on eight different tracks and has 4 wins on five others. (Allison and Gordon also had those seven wins on just two tracks and each has, to date, won 6 times at Daytona.) 102. cjs3872 posted: 06.14.2011 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon's average speed of 145.384 MPH also constitutes a new track record for 500 miles, breaking Rusty Wallace's 15-year-old record set in July of 1996. 103. Smokefan05 posted: 06.14.2011 - 12:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Except that Bowyer's chassis wasn't sitting on the frame properly, and they were warned about pushing the limits the race before, and they ended up winning the race. These aren't identical infractions, and they don't deserve identical penalties. NASCAR got it right." If NASCAR didn't do anything then it would have been concidered "favourtism." #33 crew was warned and they didn't do anything about it, they got the book thrown at them. Deserved i'd say. "Well get used to it, because the points system is different now. 6 points is going to be a normal fine, just like 25 used to be. Only idiots can't understand that the math is the same, proportionally. They just think because it's Kyle Busch, everything he does deserves to have the book thrown at him." If it dealt with the engine or chassis mounts or tire then NASCAR would have "thrown the book at them." Having your left front to low is like saying your right rear is too high. The fine fit the crime. Since we have alot of people speaking before thinking, lets remember a quote from are 35th President: "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." 104. cjs3872 posted: 06.14.2011 - 12:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, did anyone notice that Wally Dallenbach, Jr. did something commentators rarely do during a race in the pre-race show. He actually predicted the winner. (He had predicted that Gordon would win 30 minutes befroe the race even started.) That's still not as shocking as Sam Posey's prediction of Al Holbert finishing fourth in the 1984 Indianaoplis 500 on the tape-delayed broadcast of the race, but he did make those comments on tape before the race started. (And while the race was playing out, both Jim McKay and Jackie Stewart, who was working the Indy 500 for the final time, were astonshed that Posey's prediction of Holbert finishing fourth may actually come true, which it did.) 105. 00andJoe posted: 06.14.2011 - 12:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Keselowski's #92 team has changed to Chevy...and, for Michigan, has sponsorship from Melling. 106. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.14.2011 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On my sarcasm, it was more regarding media reaction. SPEEDTV said to expect some pretty huge fines and of course once again hardly anything happened, so another overhyped story. Six points obviously makes sense with the new points system, and to be honest even with the new system the usual 25 point fine under the old system wouldnt have done that much to impact his season either. 107. GDR posted: 06.14.2011 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If we're counting wins that never happened, Darrell has 85 wins too because he won the race at North Wilkesboro in 1990, not Brett Bodine. NASCAR absolutely screwed him. 108. cjs3872 posted: 06.14.2011 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) GDR, Allison's win at Winston-Salem in 1971 actually did happen, he just has not gotten credit for it. As for Brett's 1990 win at North Wilkesboro, he got the checkered flag and went to victory lane. That just about as legitimate as it gets. Sure, there may have been a scoring snafu, but that's hardly the only time that's ever happened. (Bobby Allison still maintains that he won the 1981 Spring race at Dover that Jody Ridley won, and there are dozens of other examples of this through the history of the sport.) 109. CarlEdwards99 posted: 06.14.2011 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) so a pioneer and a man responsible for the very existence of NASCAR, Raymond Parks, gets passed over for a modify driver? This would be the equivalent of Cooperstown passing over a man responsible for the existence of MLB for a double A baseball player. Get some real adults voting on this stuff and enough of the Rick Allen's of the world who frankly have very little depth of knowledge about the history of the sport. 110. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.14.2011 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Except that Bowyer's chassis wasn't sitting on the frame properly, and they were warned about pushing the limits the race before, and they ended up winning the race." Good point. I forgot they were warned one week earlier. I still would love to have seen Clint's reaction. I agree Bobby has 85 wins. Jeff will tie and pass that soon, but Bobby has 85. "Darrell has 85 wins too because he won the race at North Wilkesboro in 1990, not Brett Bodine. NASCAR absolutely screwed him." That was the first race I ever went to. I was just 6, and that was 21 years ago, but I still remember that caution took FOREVER. Obviously I don't remember the details and didn't understand it then, but I remember us in the stands trying to figure out what was going on. 111. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.14.2011 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to mention: Congrats to Cale, DW, Dale Inman, Glen Wood, and Modified King Richie Evans for making the Hall of Fame. What a class! And that is the THIRD class! NASCAR truly has a rich history. A wonderful history. 112. cjs3872 posted: 06.14.2011 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, even though he is NASCAR's punching bag, it should be noted that, in that three-way tie for 16th, David Ragan should be listed ahead of Kasey Kahne and A.J. Allmendinger, due to him having the highest finish in any race of the three. (Ragan finished second in the Coca-Cola 600, while Kahne's best finsih is third, and Allmendinger's best finsih is fifth.) 113. Eric posted: 06.14.2011 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is a very strong class. Cale and DW being announced for the 2012 Nascar Hall of Fame actually will help out the next few Nascar Hall of Fame classes in terms of people in Nascar that started from the early days of Nascar such as Herb Thomas. Richie was the only surprise pick to me. I had Lenard Wood getting in with his brother Glen. Richie belongs in the Nascar Hall of Fame, but I didn't expect him getting in this soon. I felt that way because my thinking that non cup drivers legend should get in after the retired champions of the cup series and retired champions from lower series of Nascar that had good careers as cup drivers should get in. It changed how I look at picking future Nascar Hall of Fame classes because Richie getting in. I am now hoping the 25 person ballot for the 2013 class has Smokey Yunick and Ralph Moody, Maurice Petty at least. I really don't know who I have yet for the 2013 Nascar Hall of Fame without knowing the 5 people that will be on the Nascar Hall of Fame ballot for the first time. It is possible that one of those people could be on the ballot and get in the Nascar Hall of Fame on their first time on the ballot. 114. Eric posted: 06.14.2011 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CarlEdwards99, I agree that Richie Evans shouldn't be in yet, but the Nascar Hall was meant for recognizing people from different levels on Nascar including modified drivers. Raymond Parks on the other hand should have been in before the 2012 Nascar Hall of Fame class. Raymond Parks should have been in the 2010 or 2011 Nascar Hall Fame class. Those two classes have 2 people are debatable if they should have been in terms of what hall of fame class they were in terms of Bill France Jr. and Bud Moore. Bill France should have been in the 2011 Nascar Hall of Fame class, not the 2010 Nascar Hall of Fame class. 115. 00andJoe posted: 06.14.2011 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting tidbit of news: the #67 Go Canada Racing NNS team apparently plans to run "several" Cup events later in the year with the intent of becoming a full-time Cup team at some point in the future. 116. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.14.2011 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would have liked to see Kyle get fined a little more considering that others have gotten fined more for the same thing, but eh... at least they weren't warned beforehand like Clint Bowyer and RCR were. Can't help but think the penalty would have been harsher if that were the case. Some strong candidates were able to mark their place in this year's HOF class. I'm kind of surprised Evans got in so soon, but I think Cale, DW, Inman and Wood all deserved to get in the 3rd class. 117. Smokefan05 posted: 06.14.2011 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Ride swap between Tony and Lewis just got done with on SPEED. Well i must say Lewis KILLED it out there. He adapted super quick to the heavy "taxi cab" that Tony runs and Tony did really in the seat of the F1 car. Now the seed of NASCAR is in Lewis and will come over to the dark side shortly. :-P 118. Ryan posted: 06.14.2011 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richard Childress led the Hall of Fame fan vote (LOL). I'd say he got a lot of votes the last few weeks. He was followed by Benny Parsons, Fireball Roberts, Waltrip and Yarborough. I think it was fitting that Yarborough and "Jaws" get in together. I think it was also fitting that Cale had more votes than Darrell. Considering he was a better racer and was more clutch in the spot light. This was a nice class. Dale Inman having a record of eight titles for Crew Chief is very impressive. I think him helping Terry Labonte to an out of no where title in '84 helped his cause greatly proving that not only could he win with the King, but also a different styled driver. I know Terry Labonte had five consecutive finishes in the top 10 leading up to 1984, but he wasn't necessarily a huge favorite to win it that year going into the season. I mean how many Crew Chiefs can say they won titles with more than one driver in the modern era? Cheat Knaus actually has a legitimate shot at catching Inman. I thought Trevor Bayne winning the Daytona 500 this year was icing on the cake for Glen Wood, but now that cake is double layered with the Hall of Fame. A lot of people wonder why should Ritchie Evans be in the Hall of Fame? He was a hell of a racer. And it was a shame he didn't get to add to his consecutive titles run because of what happened to him at Martinsville. 119. irony posted: 06.14.2011 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Probably not too shortly, but he'll be in NASCAR. It's something he's talked about in the past. Stewart was highly impressive. He looked like he could qualify in the 107% in a F1 race right now. If there's truly a driver with more physical racing talent than Jimmie Johnson, it is Tony Stewart. 120. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.14.2011 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The McLaren F1 team has been doing this a fair bit. Earlier in the year, Jenson Button and 3 time V8 Supercar champion Craig Lowndes swapped seats at Bathurst. That was amazing to watch... Where did they do this swap? Probably a road course I'm guessing, although an F1 car on an oval would be interesting... 121. irony posted: 06.14.2011 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Stewart/Hamilton swap was at Watkins Glen. And as it does at the Glen in June, it rained which made it even better. 122. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.14.2011 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing about Evans was his complete dominance in the modifieds, and the modifieds are a huge part of NASCAR's history. And that is with his career being cut short as Ryan mentioned. 123. Foyt14 posted: 06.14.2011 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If there's truly a driver with more physical racing talent than Jimmie Johnson, it is Tony Stewart." Oh come on, is that even a debate? Tony Stewart was arguably the top open wheel driver in the country when he switched to NASCAR, and a few short years later he became a NASCAR champion, making him arguably the best stock car driver in the country as well, at least for that particular year. And he's continued to be one of the top NASCAR drivers every year. I know Jimmie is starting to have some success in things outside of NASCAR (Grand Am, Prelude), but Tony Stewart is raw driving talent bundled up in the fieriest gut since AJ Foyt. Let's say IRL and CART never split, Tony Stewart enters the top division of American open wheel racing in the early to mid-90s, and he starts winning races right off the bat, like he would have. He was easily as good as Micheal Andretti, Paul Tracy, or Al Unser Jr were in the mid-90s. I imagine that by the year 2000, he's won an Indy 500, and probably a championship, because he wouldn't have been driving for a team like that unreliable Menard crap (which was the only reason he didn't win about 75% of the IRL races he entered, the competition in that series was a joke at the time). It would have been only a matter of time until he had F1 teams knocking at his door. If open wheel racing hadn't crumbled while NASCAR rose to prominence, I don't think it's crazy to say Tony Stewart could have been the first successful American F1 driver since, well it depends on if you count Mario Andretti as an American or not, but it's been a hell of a long while. I don't know about World Champion, but he'd win enough to repair the global opinion of American drivers, and American auto racing. Of course all of that would be dependent on what F1 team he could land. We saw what happened with Michael Andretti, but I think Tony is just a more naturally talented road racer, and he has a much better ability to just man-handle a car that Andretti lacked. He was too much finesse, not enough aggression. So I know I'm taking some liberty in assuming he'd have some good timing with the opening of a decent ride, which is really what F1 is all about. Some rides are just far and away better than others in any given year, the disparity is tremendous. But hey, this is all assumption anyway. But, you know, Tony George and all that had to happen, so here we are. Tony has done well for himself, but you can't help but wonder what could have happened under the right circumstances. I think the same thing about Michael Andretti, and I might think the same thing about Marco Andretti if he ever starts winning. Danica Patrick would have been a great story, especially if it were for a new American team, but she just isn't living up to that potential and F1 would eat her alive. As far as NASCAR drivers, Jeff Gordon kinda feels like another one that slipped through American open wheel's grasp, and might have been another perfect F1 candidate one day. If you could somehow combine Kyle Busch's talent with Jimmie Johnson's demeanor, you'd have one hell of an F1 driver on your hands. At this point I'll take anybody good, because it's not right that there is not an American driver whipping up some European ass over in F1 right now, driving an American car. 124. Eric posted: 06.15.2011 - 9:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am with Foyt14 about there is no debate about Tony Stewart having more physical talent than Jimmie Johnson. Stewart is one of the most physically talented drivers ever in terms of versatility. I put him up there with the likes A.J. Foyt and Mario Andretti. Al Unser Jr. was another one in pure talent, but he wasted it thanks to his personal struggles with alcohol and wanting to compete in the Indy 500 each year. 125. Smokefan05 posted: 06.15.2011 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know this driver isn't to well liked on here but what about Robby? He is another one of those guys who was an open wheel driver but left for NASCAR. Robbys off-road success (it doesn't bare repeating), open wheel success, road racing success and NASCAR success ranks up there. yes like Al. Unser jr. and Tony they have shot themselves in the foot but while doing they have found victory. they aren't to many guys out there like Robby and Tony left. They are becoming few and far between. From some reason, drivers today stick with one thing. What is wrong with branching out? Tony and Robby have never forgotten what has gotten them to the big time. (dirt tracks for Tony and off-road for Robby). Drivers today forget what has gotten them to the big time and don't repay. Tony and Robby repay very time they strap themselves into a car in which they got there starts in racing. 126. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.15.2011 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Robby's driving talent, no matter the vehicle, is undeniable. But "shooting himself in the foot" doesn't begin to describe what he did throughout his NASCAR career (and from what I hear, his big time open wheel career too). That would be like calling World War II a fistfight. I respect him for doing things his way no matter what, but has anybody in NASCAR history left more on the table in terms of possible success than Robby? 127. cjs3872 posted: 06.15.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric (#113), I agree, Leonard Wood, not Richie Evans should have been the fifth one voted in for 2012, a fact that was validated by this year's Daytona 500, with the Wood Brothers making Trevor Bayne the youngest man EVER to win ANY 500-mile automobile race ever held in the centennial of the very first 500-mile auto race (the 1911 Indianapolis 500). The other three were mortal locks to get in. Cale Yarborough won 83 races, now sixth all-time with Jeff Gordon's victory Sunday at Pocono, including 4 Daytona 500s (1968, '77, '83-'84, and became the first driver ever to win that race twice from the pole position, as well as win his qualifying race and the Daytona 500 in the same year twice), won the Talladega spring race twice (1978 and 1984, the latter coming in what was the most competitve ever race ever to that point), and became the first man ever to win the Southern 500 more than three times (5 in total, 1968, '73-'74, '78, '82. The five wins stood as the standard until 2007, the year of Gordon's sixth win in that event, though it run run with a diferent name, with the Southern 500 name back beginning in 2009, the records from 2005-'08 were retroactively added, making Gordon a six-time winner of that race), and is, in my opinion, still the only driver to earn three consecutive titles in NASCAR's top series (1976-'78). However, never winning the Coca-Cola/World 600 is the one blot on his otherwise spotless record (like Bill Elliott, who also never won that event). Yarborough even ran in the Indianapolis 500 four times (1966-'67, and in '71-'72, when he ran the full IndyCar schedule for gene White as a teammate to Lloyd Ruby. Yarborough's last three starts in that event were in a #21 car, almost certainly as a tribute to the Wood Brothers, with whom he won both the Daytona 500 and Southern 500 for the first time (in 1968). Darrell Waltrip upped Yarborough by one in the win column with 84 wins, a modern-record that was tied Sunday with Gordon's win at Pocono. Waltrip was the antithesis of Yarborough in many ways, but was just as successful in his way as Yarborough was in his. Waltrip won the Daytona 500 in 1989, finally won his lone Southern 500 in 1992 (his final victory), won the Talladega spring race twice (1977, '82), and to this day, is still the only driver ever to win the Coca-Cola 600 more than three times (5 in all, 1978-'79, which is the mast competitve race ever run at Charlotte, 1985, which he coupled with a victory in the very first All-Star Race the day before, and in 1988-'89, making him the only driver ever to score consecutive victories in the same crown jewel event twice.) He also holds the records at Bristol for most victories (12) and consecutive victories (7). Neither is likely to be approached. His 24 wins over two seasons (12 each in 1981 and '82) is also a record not likely to be broken. Meanwhile, Dale Inman is to NASCAR what George Bignotti was to IndyCar Racing. In terms of crew chiefs/chief mechanics, he is quite simply in a class all his own. While best known for masterminding most of Richard Petty's success, he also helped Terry Labonte score an upset championship in 1984, meaning that Inman actually one-upped Petty in terms of championships, 8-7. Inman's other accomplishments are simply too numerous to mention. No question, Evans deserves to be in the NASCAR Hall of Fame with his nine championships, including eight consecutive (he was so far ahead in the championship standings at the time of his death in 1985 that he won the championship posthumously), it's just not quite the time to elect him. Maybe another 1-3 years would have sufficed. 128. Talon64 posted: 06.15.2011 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was surprised as anyone Richie Evans got voted in this year, but pleasantly surprised. It's important to establish that it isn't the NASCAR Sprint Cup HoF but the NASCAR HoF and Evans was not only the best modified driver of all time but one of the best short track racers ever. So it's great to see him get in so early. 129. Eric posted: 06.15.2011 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smokefan05, One of the reasons drivers don't branch out to other racing series is sponsor or owner related. Sponsors and owners have stuff written in contracts for drivers that they couldn't participate in other racing series. It is a stunner An example of this is Tony Stewart in the past used false names such as "Smokey Jones" for USAC National Midget races so he wouldn't get in trouble with Joe Gibbs. One the reasons an owner like Joe Gibbs had the nature of a contract for a driver is caused by the money the driver gets from the owner/sponsor. That is very true in Nascar despite allowing drivers to play a pick up game of basketball for some reason despite Carl Edwards and Denny Hamlin got hurt while doing that. An owner wants prevent their driver to get hurt from doing another racing series as a way to protect their "investment". 130. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.15.2011 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Expanding on what Eric has said, is the McLaren F1 team sponsored by Mobil 1? That's the only way something like the Stewart/Hamilton swap would be allowed to happen. When they did the swap with the V8 Supercar, it was done with a Vodafone sponsored team, so I'm sure Mobil 1 has somethig to do with it too. 131. Eric posted: 06.15.2011 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) myothercarisanM535i, That car swap happened because Mobil 1 lubricant technology is used by Stewart and McLaren according to the McLaren website. That info is found on http://mclaren.com/page/formula-1s-hamilton-and-nascars-stewart-trade-rides-at-mobil-1-car-swap-event . 132. irony posted: 06.15.2011 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Johnson's success isn't limited to stock cars either. He comes from CORR off road racing, same as Robby. I long considered Stewart the best driver in NASCAR and possibly the world, but it's time JJ gets his due .. AND JPM AS WELL! I'll go back to defending Robby's place on this list when his team stops the start and parks that he promised never to do. 133. Smokefan05 posted: 06.15.2011 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'll go back to defending Robby's place on this list when his team stops the start and parks that he promised never to do." If Robby was driving full-time his team wouldn't but since he isn't there, they are S&Ping. ANd if some sponser would pay him 650,000$ would help too. 134. 00andJoe posted: 06.15.2011 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #133: Robby's S&P started while he was still driving the car. 135. RR posted: 06.16.2011 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Foyt14, The split had nothing to do with Tony Stewart going to stock cars. In fact, had the split not occurred, Stewart would have never sat in an open wheel tub. By the early '90s, CART teams were looking for drivers that would better fit with the road/street course nature of the series, which was becoming the primary focus of the series. Honestly, would any team owner in a series that was trying to model itself more like F1 pick Stewart (someone who had absolutely no road racing experience) over, say, Zanardi, Moore, or Franchitti (drivers who ran road courses their entire careers)? I'm not saying that Stewart wasn't talented enough to compete on road/street courses, but I really don't think he could have gone from USAC to CART and competed right away. USAC ceased being the breeding ground for CART long before the split. 136. JP88 posted: 06.16.2011 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot what Hornaday was penalized for and how serious the infraction was but didn't he lose 25 points...6 just seems like a random number, should of at least been a 20 pt. penalty or give him last car on the lead lap points 137. irony posted: 06.16.2011 - 3:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hornaday was deducted 25 points after Charlotte for an "unapproved final drive (rear end) gear ratio". Probably the biggest truck penalty I can think of since Biffle was fined like a 100 points in 1999. 138. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.16.2011 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A different diff ratio is a bit more of an issue than the car being a touch low. 139. Sean posted: 06.16.2011 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've got to say it. I happen to think Tony Stewart's talent outside NASCAR is laughably overrated, honestly. I say this as somebody who used to be a fan of him in part because of his versatility. His main credential outside of Cup in my mind is him winning the USAC Sprint/Midget/Silver Crown titles in the same season, but first of all, those are minor league series, and second, J.J. Yeley also achieved that and gets talked about like he's one of the worst drivers ever. Immediately after that, Stewart signed with John Menard in the IRL. It is here where I think his accomplishments are beyond overblown. He won 3 races in something like 20 starts despite being the overwhelming best driver in the series AND driving the overwhelming best car. Yes, the problem was the Menard engines that tended to blow up repeatedly, and he did lead the most laps 7 races in a row in his '97 season, but he also had 5 DNFs in 10 races. If someone can win a title with 50% of the races being DNFs, it is extremely clear that there was little real competition. How many other good drivers were there except Stewart? Arie Luyendyk, Buddy Lazier, Scott Goodyear (whose biggest claim to fame is choking the '95 Indy 500 by passing the pace car when he had a sure win, and I would hesitate calling him "good"), and Eddie Cheever (a complete mediocrity who only won an Indy 500 and other IRL races because the field was SO diluted). Despite also being somewhat dominant in '98 in terms of leading laps, Kenny Brack won a championship and more races than Stewart (Stewart even finished behind CAREER-WINLESS Davey Hamilton in '98 IRL points). Stewart would have gotten SMOKED by Alex Zanardi, Michael Andretti, Gil de Ferran, JPM, Dario Franchitti, etc..., etc... if he had been in CART. He'd probably have been like a Greg Moore - a solid guy who was the best on ovals and decent but not great on road courses vs. his F1-reject peers, but nobody thought Moore was the best driver in CART then. Like RR said, Stewart wouldn't have been in CART anyway as the USAC ladder to CART closed (Jeff Gordon wanted to race in CART and no one was interested, so why would Stewart have made it?) Also, Stewart went 0-for-3 at Indy despite arguably having the best cars in the field. It's not necessarily his FAULT he had horrible engines, no, but when people use his IRL title vs. nobody as evidence that he's more versatile than Jimmie Johnson or whomever, I have to cry foul a bit. 3 wins, 1 title, 0 Indy 500 wins in 3 years and 2 later appearances as a Cup driver. I'm sorry, he should have done a hell of a lot more. Greg Ray pretty much did the same when he replaced Stewart in the IRL in the Menard car and nobody talks about Ray as a great lost talent. Stewart dominated a lot of races, yes, and was certainly better than say Danica, but he had no competition, rarely finished the deal, and underachieved in points. I hesitate to call Stewart's IRL career greatness. I think it also says something when Stewart went back to Indy in 2001 with Ganassi, which had DESTROYED the field in 2000 with JPM, Stewart finished 6th of the 7 CART invaders (the 2 Penske cars, 1 Green car, and 4 Ganassi cars). Obviously the CART teams were better and far more reliable than the IRL teams at the time. But despite having a Ganassi team which should be as good as anything else out there, he lost to Castroneves and de Ferran at Penske, Michael Andretti at Team Green, and Jimmy Vasser and rookie Bruno Junqueira at Ganassi. (And poor Bruno, indeed. That guy has gotten more raw breaks in the last decade than any driver should have in a lifetime.) The ONE guy on the major teams Stewart beat was Nicolas Minassian, a Ganassi rookie who was fired only a couple months later (yes, I know Minassian is a great sports car driver, but he sucked at IndyCars). Yes, Stewart did finish on the lead lap while none of the IRL regulars that season did, but he got beaten by most of the stronger open-wheel talents. I feel he was a bit of a second-tier open wheel driver. Kind of like I don't know, Greg Biffle or something in Cup today. I didn't see him in the IRL as the world-beater some of Stewart's fans like to paint him as... Stewart since drove in the Rolex 24 and had a couple near-misses, but he still didn't win the race despite driving some of the best cars. Even Jimmie Johnson can say the same. He's had a couple near misses too (although admittedly Stewart adapted better to the Grand-Am cars than Johnson did, Johnson has done quite all right in them also, and Stewart doesn't have much to brag about there either as he still hasn't won the Rolex). Tony Stewart is a great driver, but it is primarily due to his Cup success. If you look at what drivers have done outside of Cup, he does not come even CLOSE to JPM (yes, I'll grant Montoya isn't a great Cup driver yet, but in anything else, WOW), Villeneuve, or even Franchitti. And honestly looking at series outside Cup, I think Jimmie Johnson is roughly on par. I don't think Stewart's Rolex performances have been THAT much better than Johnson's, Johnson's off road/desert stuff is almost on par with Robby and perhaps on par with what Stewart did in sprint cars, and I think Johnson could have been capable of beating that field of nobodies in a Menard car in the IRL on a bunch of cookie-cutters just as easily as Stewart was. Johnson also gets some points for his appearances in the Race of Champions in Europe, even though he didn't do as well there as Jeff Gordon did. I would maybe give Stewart a slight edge as an overall racing driver due to greater road course talent, but I don't think Stewart's career has been head-and-shoulders above Johnson's in overall driving talent especially if you're going to use Stewart's somewhat meaningless IRL title as the main credential. They're fairly equal in my view. And Johnson certainly has the edge over Stewart in Cup. Viewing Stewart as the next A.J. Foyt/Mario Andretti/Dan Gurney in my opinion is ASININE. Stewart's open wheel career does not come close to those guys whatsoever. JPM is the one guy in the field who has a chance at that, IF he can figure out how to actually win oval races and be consistent in Cup. Since he hasn't yet, I'd hesitate to see any modern-day parallel to Foyt or Andretti. I don't really hate Stewart or anything, but I don't like when people try to equate Stewart's 1997 IRL title to say, Dario Franchitti's 2010 IndyCar title against a much deeper field on a far wider variety of tracks... Al Unser, Jr. (mentioned above) also doesn't come close to Foyt or Andretti either. He is probably no more versatile than Stewart. Granted, he actually did win the Rolex twice and was the only non-NASCAR regular to win tons of races in IROC, but that's really about all Unser did outside of IndyCar, and Stewart's USAC single-season triple crown probably impresses me more. I'd say Unser in IndyCar vs. Stewart in NASCAR is a wash, and neither of them did much out of their main series. Unser didn't win in EVERYTHING the way Foyt and Andretti did (and he hasn't won in even as many different kinds of cars as Montoya has). When you count Unser's alcoholism and alleged spousal abuse, I'm even less impressed with him. It made him very ironic when Little Al criticized JPM for not "respecting the speedway" (by saying it was just like any other oval or something). Montoya can be obnoxious and annoying but I think he is FAR less of a douchebag than Unser was. I would probably take either Stewart or Montoya as an overall racing driver or a person over Unser. 140. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2011 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) @post 127: Why are you willing to retroactively add Southern 500 wins to drivers resumes (which for the record I have no problem with), but not recognize JJ's cha$e titles? To me, each is an example of the "New NASCAR" and should be counted the same. I hate the cha$e, and I ABSOULTELY hate that they took the Labor Day date from Darlington with a white hot flaming passion, but that is just how things are. We can't fault drivers either way IMO. I'd also like to weigh in on Tony branching out while others haven't. I think it comes down to two issues. First, most drivers have a clear idea about what they want to do and just stick with that. Secondly, the opportunity to run in the upper Series of different racing styles just doesn't present itself very often. Look at Jeff Gordon. He was absolutely set on running Indy cars and winning the Indy 500. But at the time he was trying to get noticed, he wasn't given the time of day due to the open wheel climate at the time. He decided to give stock cars a chance in the summer of 1990, and 21 years later he is third all time in wins and chamionships. He didn't get the chance that Tony got. But I doubt Jeff is complaining. And I'd also like to say I think Richie Evans is very deserving of being in this class. He is the first guy to go in based on his non-Cup career (whether it is driving, wrenching, or broadcasting), and he should be the head of that class. Nobody in any non-Cup Series has approached the dominance he achieved in a short period of time in a very competitive Series. What Kyle is doing in NWide can't touch Richie in the Modifieds. Also, the Modifieds have a tremendous history and should be recognized. What better way than to induct the best Modified driver ever in the 3rd HOF class? This is a deserving win for Richie and the Modifieds. 141. RaceFanX posted: 06.16.2011 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's first win in his "Black with flames" 2009 and beyond DuPont paint job. While Gordon won lots of races in his original 1992-2000 rainbow look and a good deal in his 2001-2008 blue with red flames paint job his black look had been until now locked out of victory lane (his two wins in the period since adopting it were in a gray National Guard paint job at Texas in 2009 and the new primary red AARP Drive to End Hunger car at Phoenix earlier in 2011). 2011 is the first year since 2007 that Jeff Gordon has won multiple races. 142. irony posted: 06.16.2011 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Stewart coulda/woulda/shoulda won the Rolex in 2004. I'll remember that depressing day (Superbowl 38 the same day) longer than Stewart will I'm sure. I don't think you can expect an outsider to win in another series. That's why when it happens it's such a big deal. BTW I'm not a JJ or Stewart fan, just shocked that people still don't give JJ the credit he deserves. People saying J Gordon is better after Johnson has whipped his tail year after year in the same equipment ... people saying Kyle is better when he's done literally nothing JJ has? I just don't get it. 143. jr88fan posted: 06.16.2011 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 200th race for Steve letarte as a crew chief. 300th race for "Slugger" Labbe as a crew chief. 144. Sean posted: 06.16.2011 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Now Gordon vs. Johnson. That's an interesting one. Without question, Johnson has been the better driver since his debut and has regularly outperformed him on the track in that time. I don't think that's necessarily enough to make a decision, though. You can prove anything by comparing a driver in his prime to one who is not. If you judged strictly by 1997-2000 then Jeremy Mayfield is better than Darrell Waltrip, which is obviously not true. Yeah, that's an extreme example, but still... The proper comparison is comparing Gordon's 1993-2001 and Johnson's 2002-2010, and I can go either way on this. I would probably still go with Gordon for the following reasons: 1. He is largely responsible for elevating the Hendrick team from somewhat second-tier (relative to Childress, Yates, Penske) to the top of the heap, while Johnson capitalized on what Gordon already did. I mean Johnson had a MUCH easier route when he made it to Cup because he had some of Gordon's championship-winning hand-me-down cars. That car he swept at Dover as a rookie? I'm pretty sure that was the same car Gordon led 381 of 400 laps in the 2001 spring race. Gordon had none of that, as Hendrick approached mediocrity in the Chevy Lumina years and 1992 (immediately before Gordon's arrival) might have been their worst year ever; it was Chevy's too admittedly as Earnhardt and Irvan missed the top ten, and Rudd for Hendrick actually led the way... 2. Gordon is so consistent from track to track that he doesn't really have any strengths or weaknesses. He could win anywhere even now and you wouldn't be surprised. Compare to Rusty, who was stereotyped as a short track driver, Elliott stereotyped as a superspeedway driver, etc... and you realize that there have not been many drivers who are equal threats on every track. Johnson is close to that now, but most would still be surprised if he wins on a road course or plate track in general. Slight edge to Gordon there. 3. Gordon hit a higher peak in the late '90s than Johnson has more recently. He didn't win five straight titles in a row, but he did win the most races five straight years in a row, something nobody else did ever. Honestly I'm more impressed by that. I think people overrate titles. Jeff Gordon had the best season in 1996, title or no title. Some of Jimmie Johnson's title seasons he probably honestly didn't (2008 with Edwards winning the most races and scoring slightly more points over the entire year comes to mind, or possibly 2007 with Gordon scoring 30 top tens, a rarer feat than 10 wins...considering I think wins are more important I'm torn with regards to who had the better 2007 performance, but there's definitely a debate there). 4. Gordon has gotten it done over a far longer period than Johnson and has had far more instability within his team. He has now won with five crew chiefs (Evernham, Whitesell, Loomis, Letarte, and Gustafson), while Johnson has only had one except the times Knaus has been suspended. Gordon also had to struggle with the #88 team raiding the Rainbow Warriors around the time Evernham left and he had to lift the Hendrick team by himself when Terry Labonte was becoming irrelevant. Gordon certainly has had great luck and fortune and stability in his career relative to most great drivers, but vs. Johnson it's an issue. Johnson's team has had virtually no changes to the point where even Gordon's battled adversity. Gordon also was continuously successful between the stock/classic and spec/gimmick era and survived each rule change. Tire wars? Impound races? Harder tires? The chase? The COT? The 5-and-5 rule? Shootout-style restarts? Green-white-checkereds? The new wave of star rookies in the early 2000s? None of those changes really did Gordon in, even though several of his contemporaries (and the racing itself) were affected by several of the above things. Most of today's gimmicks had become established by 2003-05 so Johnson didn't really have to do adapt much as he became championship-caliber in 2004 right alongside the chase. He didn't have to adapt to a completely different style of racing as Gordon did since Johnson hardly remembers anything different... 145. Sean posted: 06.16.2011 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Having said that, there are several good arguments for Johnson, some of which were mentioned above: 1. Johnson has pretty much outperformed Gordon since his debut. I don't like using this as an argument, because like I said above, you could prove almost anything that way. David Ragan is a better driver than Bobby Labonte solely due to this year's performance! Michael Waltrip was better than Dale Jarrett in 2003! Etc... Yeah, Gordon and Johnson have the same equipment, and Ragan has stronger equipment than Labonte, but I think Labonte is so washed-up now even a career-mediocrity like Ragan would be outperforming him in the same equipment. BL should have retired when he left Petty Enterprises, in my opinion. Another difference is that this is over an extended period, but I think the idea is the same. Don't compare a driver in his prime with one who's not. 2. Johnson had far more competition in his prime than Gordon did. This is probably the best case for Johnson, honestly. When Gordon came up in the '90s there was a real dry spell for rookies where pretty much every rookie class kind of sucked. Only three major stars appeared in the rookie classes from '89-'98...Gordon himself, B. Labonte, and J. Burton. Yes, you can talk about how many races Trickle would have won if he'd started Cup ten years later, or what W. Burton/Hamilton/Craven/Benson/Nemechek should have done if they'd had elite rides at the right time, but the fact remains, Gordon, Labonte, and Burton were the only drivers who emerged as major threats for better or worse between Ernie Irvan and Tony Stewart. That gave Gordon the opportunity to win a TON of races in the late '90s while the established stars from the '80s (Earnhardt, Wallace, Irvan, T. Labonte, Rudd, Elliott, D. Waltrip, etc...) were all declining. That's a huge advantage he had, as well as Burton and B. Labonte. Kit has said stuff in the past about how easy it is to win 20 races now? I think it was easier then because the '80s stars were becoming irrelevant and the rookie classes from '95-'98 were still kind of weak allowing Gordon and especially B. Labonte and Burton to inflate their win totals (honestly I think BL and J. Burton are by far and away the worst drivers with 20 wins in the modern era at least...and Gordon wouldn't have close to the win total he has without his good fortune in timing.) Gordon (and Burton) also benefited from Hendrick and Roush mastering multi-car teams before the others caught on; Gordon more so. Not only did he benefit from there being few strong multi-car teams, he also benefited from many of those teams going for fairly lame drivers in his prime (Skinner, Mayfield, Benson, Little, Musgrave, Lepage, Irwin...) Had those Childress, Penske, Roush, and Yates rides had better drivers in them at those times, Gordon would have many fewer wins. (And I do think Skinner, Mayfield, Benson, and Musgrave all had talent, but you get what I'm saying here, I hope...) Johnson on the flip side had to compete against Junior, Kenseth, Harvick, Ku. Busch, Newman, Biffle, Edwards, Kahne, Ky. Busch, and Hamlin when ALL those guys were in their primes every week (not even mentioning Gordon himself, and the last gasps for the Labontes, Jarrett, Rudd, Wallace, Martin, Marlin, etc...) This is something Gordon didn't have. He basically won by default as Jarrett and Martin were really his only true weekly threats, particularly after Earnhardt's Talladega crash (yes, T. Labonte beat him in a title chase, but even in '96, Jarrett and Martin were actually stronger threats in the races themselves, I'd say). If you want to make an argument for Johnson over Gordon, this is the argument you should make. 3. DaleSrFanForever's argument that Johnson has never had a bad year is also a good one, but I would argue it's not hard to have no bad years when your team never changes and the racing environment is pretty sterile. Since the COT, what major changes have really occurred with the cars, the rules, even which drivers are on which teams? Not anywhere near as much as in most five-year periods. There are always some changes with spoilers or whatever, but I'd say there were fewer real changes in NASCAR from 2005-2010 than in 2000-2005 or 1995-2000 or etc... NASCAR is its most sterile ever. So unless something really happens to Johnson's team (which it hasn't) he'll keep winning titles each year. NASCAR changed a hell of a lot more between Gordon's first title and his last (generally not in GOOD ways) than between Johnson's first title and his last. That's why I would somewhat argue against that argument. It is still rather impressive since all his contemporaries have had bad seasons, but I'd also contend it's a lot easier to have zero bad seasons in this time period than when Earnhardt and Gordon were dominating, especially because Johnson has never even had to replace his crew chief yet, while Earnhardt and Gordon both have many times. The most impressive thing about Johnson's streak to me is how every year his primary challenger(s) falls off. It's bizarre. Jeff Gordon: 6 wins in '07 to 0 in '08, Carl Edwards: 9 wins in '08 to 0 in '09, Kyle Busch: 8 wins in '08 to missing the chase in '09, Mark Martin: 5 wins in '09 to 0 in '10, Jeff Gordon: 1 win but great consistency in '09 to total mediocrity in '10, Denny Hamlin: 8 wins in '10 to nothing yet in '11. But I still think it's not THAT hard with the best team, best crew chief, and few changes to the sport happening around you. I am still personally more impressed with Gordon for elevating Hendrick to the point Johnson could then benefit from Gordon's past success, the fact that Gordon is one of the few drivers who is so consistent from track to track that he could win anywhere and you wouldn't be surprised (something I don't think we can quite say of Johnson yet), and the fact that Gordon remained relevant over massive changes in the sport and far greater changes in his team than Johnson has had trumps Johnson having one more title. It's highly debatable though, and any of the three things I listed up there are good arguments for Johnson though (and the best by far is that he has a ton more competitors in their prime he's had to beat). I'd say their careers are essentially equal, but I'd still give Gordon the edge. 146. irony posted: 06.17.2011 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I don't disagree with anything you said really. I just think Gordon was still in his prime when JJ came along (01 champ) and that JJ and Stewart are the reasons Gordon didn't dominate the 2000's. Gordon was still young, and the star of the sport when JJ arrived. He was still healthy. Earnhardt was racing with so much pain in his late years that he couldn't sit up straight in the car. On the flip side, Gordon has had crew chief instability as you said. Gordon has been successful without Ray, only time will tell what JJ does without Knaus. When people say Knaus is the reason for JJ's success, can't you just as easily say the opposite? Knaus isn't Dale Inman ... his success has been with one driver. He didn't make chicken salad out of Stacy Compton, after all. My only real disagreement is I won't be the least bit surprised when JJ wins on a road course. 147. 18fan posted: 06.17.2011 - 1:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie won last year at Sears Point, although Marcos Ambrose gift-wrapped it for him. 148. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.17.2011 - 4:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Johnson is close to that now, but most would still be surprised if he wins on a road course or plate track in general." Those two types of tracks are Johnson's weakness for sure. In the past year, he has managed to score a win at each though, due to circumstances lining up right for him. Marcos Ambrose performed an epic choke at Sonoma, allowing Jimmie to inherit the lead. And Jimmie never would have won Talladega this year if not for that big push from Dale Jr. I know Jimmie is ahead in championships now, but I'll wait until he has one or two more under his belt before I start ranking him ahead of Gordon overall. Since Jimmie debuted in Cup, he has been ahead of Jeff. But if you compare their careers overall, Jeff comes out on top although Jimmie still has about a solid 10 years ahead of him where he can keep racking up wins. Jeff has been a much more prolific winner at the road courses and plate tracks throughout his career. 149. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2011 - 9:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF (#140), I recognize Johnson's titles in the Chase era, as well as the ones recorded by Tony Stewart (2005) and Kurt Busch (2004). I just don't think they carry nearly as much weight, because they were acheived over basically 10 races instead of the full season, where as the titles won by Gordon, Earnhardt, both Pettys, Waltrip, Yarborough, Pearson, Waltrip, and the others prior to 2004 were won over a full season, where the Daytona 500 or Coca-Cola 600 meant just as much in terms of the championship as any of the other points races. But I DO recognize Johnson's five consecutive titles, they just don't carry the weight of the championships of the other multiple champions that came before him. 150. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2011 - 9:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Also, responding to the driver comparisons in recent posts, here are my top 10 NASCAR Cup drivers of all-time, presently. 1. Richard Petty (pretty self-explanatory presently) 2. Bobby Allison (2nd all-time in top 5 and top 10 finishes) 3. Jeff Gordon (could move up to #2 in the very near future) 4. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. (behind Gordon because he wasn't as good on as many tracks) 5. Cale Yarborough (#5 and #6 are interchangeable, but I rank Cale ahead of Darrell) 6. Darrell Waltrip (#5 and #6 are interchangeable, but I rank Darrell behind Cale) 7. David Pearson (ranked here due to the lack of competition he often faced in many of his wins) 8. Junior Johnson (greatest driver never to win a championship) 9. Herb Thomas (first to win 2 championships and 3 Southern 500s) 10. Buck Baker (first to win consecutive championships and won 3 Southern 500s) HONORABLE MENTION (11-20): Tim Flock, Jimmie Johnson, Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, Bill Elliott, Fireball Roberts, Lee Petty, Tony Stewart, Ned Jarrett, and Bobby Isaac. STARS OF THE FUTURE: (Opinion-based, and in no particular order) 1. Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. 2. Cole Whitt 3. Austin Dillon 4. Justin Allgaier 5. Trevor Bayne (if he can keep a ride and get full sponsorship) 6. Parker Kligerman 7. Ty Dillon NOTE: There may be others, but they're so far down the ladder, that it's impossible to predict who they might be. I also still have hope for Joey Logano. His problem is, in my opinion, that JGR is putting next-to-no emphasis on the #20 car, and hasn't since Kyle Busch arrived in 2008. (The #20 car's two victories since then were at Talladega, when Tony Stewart crossed the line second behind Regan Smith, but Smith was penalized one lap for passing Stewart on the apron on the final lap, and at Loudon in 2009, when Logano caught the rain at just the right time after running in the second half of the field for most of that race.) 151. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2011 - 10:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, where Al Unser, Jr. is concerned, he was a great driver who was versatile. but he still ranks at the bottom of the totem pole where the Unsers are concerned. First there's Al Unser, Sr., the greatest driver in Indianaoplis 500 history with 4 wins, 3 seconds, and 4 thirds, all of which tie event records. He won a total of 39 IndyCar races (currently fourth all-time) and 3 championships, which spanned 15 years (1970, '83, '85). Then comes Bobby Unser, who won Indy 3 times, one in each of three decades (1968, '75, '81), among his 35 victories (currently fifth all-time), and won 2 championships (1968, '74). Al, Jr comes in next, but he still won over 30 races (34, I believe), 2 Indy 500s (1992, '94), and 2 championships (1990, '94). All three men also won IROC championships (Bobby in 1975, Al Unser, Sr. in 1978, and Al Unser, Jr twice, in 1986 and '88.) They all also ran one Daytona 500. Bobby crashed in 1969, driving for Smokey Yunick, and Al, Jr. crashed in 1993, driving for Hendrick Motorsports, with Bobby Hillin, Jr. (Ironically, Al Unser, Sr. drove for Bobby Hillin, Sr. from 1980-'82) Al Unser, Sr., driving for Cotton Owens in 1968, finished fourth behind Cale Yarborough, LeeRoy Yarbrough, and Bobby Allison, and finished one spot ahead of David Pearson in the 1968 Daytona 500. So among the Unsers it's Al, Sr, Bobby, and then Al, Jr., but all three were great and versatile drivers. 152. Eric posted: 06.17.2011 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The thing with Dale Earnhardt Sr with amount of tracks that he is good at was caused by a few factors. 1.)RCR was not known for Horsepower during Dale Sr.'s time as a driver. That meant Pocono, and Michigan were issues for him and that was on the team. 2.) Some tracks that Jeff Gordon is good at, came at the wrong time of Dale Earnhardt Sr.'s career. Dale from 1996 to 1999 got injured at least once a year and that was affecting his performance besides age. You could argue that a lot of those tracks wouldn't have been his best tracks anyway because factor 1. 3.) RCR in the late 1990's was behind other teams at the time. 4.) Dale was great at tracks that was about handling. Atlanta had speed, but it was a handling race track like Charlotte Motor Speedway was. 153. Smokefan05 posted: 06.17.2011 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JGR is in trouble again, got caught with unapproved oil pans. Hermie Sadler reported on SPEED that they are 1 inch cut from the normal ones so they could lower the engine into the car while lowering the cars COG. NASCAR frowns on this sort of thing and the fact that they tried to sneak it through inspection isn't going to help them either. All 3 cars got busted. 154. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2011 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I'll remember that depressing day (Superbowl 38 the same day)" Ugh. I remember that too. So damn close. SO close. "People saying J Gordon is better after Johnson has whipped his tail year after year in the same equipment ... people saying Kyle is better when he's done literally nothing JJ has? I just don't get it." Same here. "When people say Knaus is the reason for JJ's success, can't you just as easily say the opposite?" For a long time I thought Chad was THE key to the 48's success. But after looking at it, especially after last year, I think Chad is luckier to have JJ than JJ is to have Chad. Excellent points Sean. @149, those are fair points. "4. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. (behind Gordon because he wasn't as good on as many tracks)" Eric made some great points about this, but I'd like to add one thing: During the majority of Dale's prime they didn't have as many tracks as they have had for the majority of Jeff's career. He never got to race at Kansas or Chicago. He only got to race at Texas and Cali 4 times each during his injury/mid pack equipment years. He only raced at Vegas 3 times, and Homestead twice. New Hampshire didn't show up until 1993, and Indy in 1994 (he won the second ever race there, a race which some people still haven't woken up from). Plus he only got to race at Ontario twice and Texas World 3 times. He raced at Nashville twice a year for his first 6 years and won twice. He is also underrated as a road course racer. Yeah, he only has that one win, but he ran really well at them. He has the fifth most Top 5s in Riverside's history, and he raced there just 20 times. So yeah, he had trouble winning on road courses, and he does not belong in the discussion of best road racers ever. But he was still pretty damn good at them. There are only 3 tracks he raced at more than 10 times and never won at: Loudon, 12 starts, a runner up, 6 Tops 10s. Watkins Glen, 15 starts, 3 poles, 8 Top 10s, led over half the laps in '96 from the pole driving with a broken sternum, a broken collarbone, and enough of an adrenaline kick that, if captured, could have powered Tokyo for a year. Riverside, 20 starts, 13 Top 5s (!!!!!). 155. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2011 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "JGR is in trouble again, got caught with unapproved oil pans. Hermie Sadler reported on SPEED that they are 1 inch cut from the normal ones so they could lower the engine into the car while lowering the cars COG." They are the new Hendrick Motorsports. Dave Rogers is the new Chad Knaus. Letting his cars have this one week after NASCAR took it easy on them for failing post race tech, and was involved in MagnetGate in 2008 in NWide. 156. Scott B posted: 06.17.2011 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, Bayne, Allgaier, and Stenhouse are the three I would put at the top of the future stars list. Not to say the others you mentioned don't have potential, I just need to see more to be convinced they'll make it at the Cup level. One other I'd throw out there is Landon Cassill, if he connects with the right team. He put qualified some bad start & park cars pretty well in the past, and now is getting as much out of his ride with James Finch's team as anyone could reasonably expect. Due to the economy, these kids have gone back to breaking in the way old-school drivers used to. The era of rookies being brought up directly into full-time, high-level rides that started with Jeff Gordon looks to have ended with Logano. 157. 00andJoe posted: 06.17.2011 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #156 - I agree on the rookie thing. Andy Lally, for instance, is actually having pretty "average" rookie seasons - by the standard of rookies prior to the arrival of Tony Steart and the "Superrookies". By rookie standards prior to that, he's having not too bad a year, but we see him through the lens of the 1999-2009 period where rookies-of-the-year were almost a dissapointment if they *didn't* win a race. On the future stars: agree pretty much with your list. David Ragan has to start looking over his shoulder with the way Stenhouse has been performing lately, and Bayne (if he can stay healthy) might start making Biffle nervous before too long. I'm not too sure about Cole Whitt, though - the tea leaves say that Red Bull is going to rush him up to Cup well before he's ready, and he might very well wind up like Scott Speed (or, more charitably, Allmendinger) did. Kligerman and Cassill both are really impressing me; if he can stay out of wrecks the 51 is a dark-horse at the plate races later this year (along with the 36, and who thought we'd ever be saying that!). I'm a bit more dubious about the Dillons, though - Austin's good, but Ty is beating up on a bush-league series in top-notch equipment, so I'm reserving judgement on him for now. Allgaier, on the other hand, will be ready for Cup next year, IMHO. So, likely 2012 ROTY class: Stenhouse, Allgaier, Whitt? 158. Anonymous posted: 06.17.2011 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dave Rogers is the new Chad Knaus. Letting his cars have this one week after NASCAR took it easy on them for failing post race tech, and was involved in MagnetGate in 2008 in NWide." You have no idea what crew chiefs actually do, do you? This is basically what you are saying happened: Dave Rogers: Alright Joe Gibbs Racing, I think we need to push the limit this week. Let's put in those smaller oil pans in all of the team cars. Mike Ford: Uh, why do you have final say on things going into my car? Dave Rogers: Because I do, I'm Dave Rogers and run every aspect of Joe Gibbs Racing, including what parts go into every car. I specifically told the engineers to make those oil pans smaller, and I specifically told every team to put them in the cars. That's how this organization is run, by me. Greg Zippadeli: Anything to win I guess. Screw it, let's cheat. I doubt we'll get caught, NASCAR are a bunch of idiots. Dave Rogers: Yep, and I'm doing this, knowing that my team was just fined last week. I also specifically told the team to use those springs, because I knew that when they heat up they can cause problems, but those problems make the car go faster. Every 1/16th of an inch height on one corner makes a difference. I told the team to cheat last week, and I told them to cheat this week. That's the new policy of Joe Gibbs Racing: cheating all the time. Because I'm Dave Rogers, dictator of Joe Gibbs Racing, who decides when and when not every team at JGR will cheat. ------- Yep, totally plausible scenario. Dave Rogers made all 3 teams use illegal oil pans. He measured them himself, and forced the other teams to use them. Just like last week he forced the 18 to use those springs because it would give an advantage. It wasn't a simple mistake, he's a mastermind cheater. Do you ever stop and think, "boy, what I'm typing is really stupid"? No? Didn't think so. 159. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2011 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The difference between Gordon and Earnhardt is versatility, not talent. (The same can be said about Bobby Allison.) Gordon's 84 wins are spread out among so many tracks that he does not have more than seven of them at any of them. The same is true about Bobby Allison. He won 85 times, but he, like Gordon, never won more than seven times at any one track, but was also more versatile than Earnhardt (who couldn't beat either of them head-to-head very often). Earnhardt, on the other hand, was dominant at four tracks, Atlanta, Bristol, Talladega, and Darlington. so much so that 37 of his 76 wins, nearly half of his entire win total, came at just those four tracks. As for the comparison at some of the high-speed tracks, such as Michigan. Well, both have won just twice there, while it is fair to say that Earnhardt didnt' race much, if at all, on some of the other high speed tracks. (The only ones that were added in the last decade of Earnhardt's career were California, Texas, and Indy, the only one of the three tracks where he won.) Pocono was about horsepower, but was also about finesse. While it's true that Earnhardt won only twice there, while Gordon won there five times, Earnhardt's contemporaries all did better than him in terms of wins. Bill Elliott won five times, Darrell Waltrip, Rusty Wallace, and Tim Richmond each won there four times, and Bobby Allison won there three times. Terry Labonte and Harry Gant also won there twice, but earnhardt was never as likely to win on a track where finesse and technique was involved, which is why, although he DID run well on road courses, he only won on them once, at Sonoma in 1995, in what Earnhardt himself called one of the most important victories in his career. (Earnhardt was terribly unfortunate not to win on road courses more often as he ran into some awful luck.) Another reason I put Gordon ahead of Earnhardt is their head-to-head battles for the win. They finished 1-2 five times, including once in the Southern 500 (1995), the final race at North Wilkesboro (1996), and the Daytona 500 (1999). Earnhardt won their first such battle at north Wilkesboro in 1995, and never came out on top again. Also, 00andJoe (#157), your comment on Ty Dillon is the very reason I hesitated the most on him, as well on Parker Kligerman. After all Scott Speed nearly won the ARCA championship in 2008 and won a Truck Series race at Dover the following year, but we see what all that amounted to. And remember, what a driver does, even in the Nationwide Series, has no bearing on what he might do in Cup, and Bayne's style, among the up-and-coming drivers, seems to me to be best suited for the longer Cup races, though I think he may well be released from his NNS ride at year's end if he can't find more sponsorship if Roush doesn't put him in one of his Cup cars in 2012, though, if Michael Andretti goes NASCAR racing, if the rumors are true, Bayne might be a candidate for that ride (either Cup or NNS), since Andretti seems to be exploring the possibilities with Roush. (Andretti is already hooked up with a Ford organization through his connections with Richard Petty Motorsports, running his cousin John at Indy in the #43 car, painted like the classic Petty and Gordon Johncock STP schemes from the 1980s.) 160. Red posted: 06.17.2011 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "1. Richard Petty (pretty self-explanatory presently) (11-20): Jimmie Johnson" Not picking on you specifically cjs3872, but your list brings up a point that drives me insane. I know the historical standing of Richard Petty is a sensitive subject for some people, because he's The King and he was a fan favorite and ambassador for NASCAR. But I think a lot of fans are hypocritical in the way they praise Petty, yet discredit Jimmie Johnson, often for the VERY SAME things. What are the two most common knocks on JJ? One, that he only wins because he's driving for the best team with the best crew chief. And two, the fact that he won his titles under the chase format, and the chase isn't a "real" championship. If you want to discredit Jimmie for those things, that's fine, I think those are at least reasonable arguments. However, the same exact criticisms apply to Richard Petty, but many people just gloss over them, or try to justify them, because they have an emotional attachment to Petty being "The King." First, Petty won all his titles with one crew chief, the legendary Dale Inman. Dale won an 8th title with another driver, but Petty never won without Inman. Moreover, for most of his prime, he was driving BY FAR the best cars on the track. The disparity between Petty's cars and the rest of the field would be the equivalent of the 48 team showing up at your local short track with a 7-post rig and a fleet of engineers. Richard had the enormous advanatge of the hemi engine for a portion of his races, and was receiving plenty of financial support from Chrysler which many of his opponents never had. In the 60's and 70's especially, Richard Petty was bringing a gun to a knife fight, so of course he was going to win a lot of races. Guess what, Jimmie Johnson would have, too. Second is the subject of his championships. People conveniently forget that only 2 of Petty's 7 titles were won under the traditional Latford points system. His first five titles were won under a bunch of convoluted systems that were designed primarily to encourage more cars to show up at the track. Some of these points systems valued STARTS more than actual race results, and a few were based off the money list, meaning some races were worth 10x as much as others. Honestly, as bad as the chase system is, it's still better than the nonsensical formats they had in NASCAR's early days. I want to be clear: I'm not saying Richard Petty wasn't a great driver, and I'm not saying Jimmie Johnson is better than Petty. What I am saying is we need to set aside our emotions and memories and prejudices and give each driver a fair comparison, which many fans seems incapable of doing. With that in mind, I can honestly say I have no idea where to rank Richard Petty, because the circumstances of his career are unique, and we'll never be able to separate his driving skill from his equipment advantage. 161. 12345Dude posted: 06.17.2011 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What is with nascar's calls? They didn't mind seeing Kevin try to punch Kyle, and almost seriously hurt a man on pit road. Kyle can drive 128, in a 55 zone. Now Iā??ve read multiple sources that said, now no-one at Gibbs are going to be fined at all for the oil panels. Why? Jeff Gordon has a good point. Who cares if they weren't going to use them, he got a 100 point penalty, when he didnt use the idem in question. 162. Ultimate Warrior posted: 06.17.2011 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Time Has Come For Jimmie Johnson's Title Reign to end it will be trampled by raging elephants it will be mowed down By Lawnmowers You can feel it dudes you can feel it 163. the_man posted: 06.17.2011 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on a 17th place finish: ā??We made a few adjustments on Friday in hopes to get our UPS Ford fast enough to win the race and it felt like we had a car that could contend the first half. We drove up towards the front of the pack and we really didnā??t want to see those cautions come out; I think the cautions at the end hurt us. Our car was really good on the long runs and we were able to get back some of those spots that we lost, but we were aggressive in trying to go for the win. It didnā??t work out exactly as planned, the cautions didnā??t fall our way but we learned and we do come back here again so I look forward to learning and coming back.ā? 164. Anonymous posted: 06.18.2011 - 7:27 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Am I the only one who thinks Hendrick deliberately gives Mark Martin crap cars because he is afraid Mark would beat Jimmie in the title. Notice in 09 when Mark nearly beat Jimmie, Mark got crap cars for only the last few Chase races. Same goes for Gordo in 07, granted I know Jeff stinks in October and November, but am I the only one who finds it fishy that Jeff went from top-5 every week of the season to overachieving in crap cars just to finish in the top-10 after Charlotte in October? Maybe I am paranoid, but it seems Hendrick sabotages any driver on his team who might: a) beat Jimmie in a race (see Las Vegas 2010), or b) threaten Jimmie's title chance. What someone has better gets stolen and given to Jimmie, like last fall's Texas pit crew fiasco; stealing Jeff's superior crew and giving it to Jimmie, killing Jeff's chances of winning. Gone are the days of it being just a driver and his crew chief winning the race, now it is who the owner likes better, despite talent. 165. Anonymous posted: 06.18.2011 - 7:28 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Do I notice that Jimmie treats Jeff like crap on the track, or is it just me? 166. cjs3872 posted: 06.18.2011 - 11:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red (#160), one of Petty's greatest strengths was his ability to outlast and outthink the competition, which is where he won many of his races, including most of his Daytona 500s, especially in the 1970s. While he did have, by far, the fastest car in his first two 500 victories, that was not the case in at least four of his last five. In 1971, A.J. Foyt had the fastest car, but ran out of fuel on lap 162 while leading, then Donnie Allison crashed out of the lead under caution a short time later. In 1973, Buddy BaKer and Cale Yarborough had faster cars but both blew engines, resulting in Petty winning in the biggest margin in history. He may have had the fastest car in 1974, but didn't have to race Donnie Allison due to his late-race tire failures, then in 1979, he was a distant third when Allison and Cale Yarborough crashed in the third turn on the final lap. Petty then led Darrell Waltrip and Foyt for his sixth victory in that event. then a combination of Dale Inman's Hail Mary pit call and Bobby Allison running out of fuel led to his final 500 victory. Another of Petty's greatest strengths was his ability to adapt to a slippery track, which is another way he collected a lot of those victories. (Watch the 1984 Daytona 500 and that is mentioned not long before Petty falls out of the race.) Also, while Johnson's titles (except his first) are cheaper than those of the multiple champions that came before him, I don't think a single one of his victories are cheapened. In fact, he won twice in 2006 without his crew chief, who had been suspended for the first five races due to an aero rules infraction during qualifying for the 2006 Daytona 500. Also, it's entirely possible that Petty may eventually lose his #1 spot in my all-time driver rankings to Gordon, or maybe Johnson further down the line. 167. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.18.2011 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Earnhardt, on the other hand, was dominant at four tracks, Atlanta, Bristol, Talladega, and Darlington. so much so that 37 of his 76 wins, nearly half of his entire win total, came at just those four tracks." Earnhardt never had the equipment Gordon has had. He spent the first 6 years of his career having to play ride roulette after Osterlund bailed on him halfway through '81 after two really good seasons. JD Stacy bought the team (which were the defending Winston Cup Champions) and gutted it. Dale was so disgusted by this he took his sponsorship to Richard Childress for the rest of the year. Richard was an independent who agreed to hand the wheel to Dale for the rest of the year. As Kirk Shelmerdine said once, they raced their Martinsville car at Talladega (Richard's last race), and the next week Dale was driving for them. After '81, he spent the next two years driving Fords for Bud Moore. He led a ton of laps but had mechanical failures in OVER HALF of his races over those two years. In '84 he went back to RCR after they had two good years of seasoning with Ricky Rudd, but still weren't championship material yet. They needed two years to iron out the bugs and find the right balance of raw speed (which they had in '85 but didn't have in '84) and reliability (which they had in '84 but sure as hell didn't in '85). Only beginning with 1986 could Dale really spread his wings. So after two quality years ('79 and '80) Dale had to wait out 5 seasons before he was in championship caliber equipment again. Gordon has never had to experience this. I take nothing from Jeff, he was given a tremendous opportunity and has made the most of it by being talented and smart. But imagine if Dale were groomed to be a racer from age 4 by his Dad, the way Jeff was by his stepfather, and got a chance to drive elite Winston Cup cars at age 21. And imagine if he had the tremendous career stability Jeff has had. Do you realize Dale had to switch TEAMS as much as Jeff has switched crew chiefs? Teams! This doesn't count the crew chief roulette he played during the late 90s. Another analogy: Compare their "injury years". Dale's were from '97 through '99 as he battled the effects of the wicked '96 Dega wreck, 3 hard wrecks in '98 in the month of May alone, and the '99 Atlanta wreck that broke a small part of his NECK. In that 3 year stretch, he still won 4 times while Gordon and Evernham were tearing the circuit up. Jeff's "injury years" were '08 through '10 which stemmed from his "Holy F***ing S**t!!!" wreck at Vegas in '08. He only got one win in those 3 years. His teammate and shopmate JJ won 3 over that span. 3 CHAMPIONSHIPS! If Dale had joined Rick Hendrick at the start of '84 instead of RCR, he'd have over 100 wins and God knows how many championships. 168. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.18.2011 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I want to be clear: I'm not saying Richard Petty wasn't a great driver, and I'm not saying Jimmie Johnson is better than Petty. What I am saying is we need to set aside our emotions and memories and prejudices and give each driver a fair comparison, which many fans seems incapable of doing. With that in mind, I can honestly say I have no idea where to rank Richard Petty, because the circumstances of his career are unique, and we'll never be able to separate his driving skill from his equipment advantage." You are 100% correct. You really have to go era by era, circumstance by circumstance. Hell, look at him and Pearson, the two greatest rivals in NASCAR history. They raced at the same time, but were after two seperate things. Richard was about running every single race, Pearson was after only the big events after he won his championships. You can hardly compare them AND THEY RACED HEAD TO HEAD!! Pearson had a better winning %, but could he have handled year after year of running every event the way Richard did? Could Richard have won at the incredible rate Pearson did in a limited schedule, clipping off events with surgical precision? Could ANYONE have raced in just slightly below elite equipment for an entire career the way Dale did and win 76 races and 7 championships? 169. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.18.2011 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Do you ever stop and think, "boy, what I'm typing is really stupid"? No? Didn't think so." Say what you want, that is two weeks in a row for Dave. Even Chad never got busted two weeks in a row, and he has set the golden standard for cheaters. FACT: Dave is ultimately responsible for his car. FACT: His car was outside of NASCAR's tolerances one week earlier. FACT: He could have stuck with the old oil pans, which would be the smart thing to do one week after getting busted. Do YOU ever stop and think "boy, I am typing out a really extreme interpretation of his point, maybe I should read it more carefully and not get carried away"? Do YOU ever stop and think "boy, I just added 2 plus 2 and got 27"? No? Didn't think so. 170. Eric posted: 06.18.2011 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to go more into details in what DaleSrFanForever mentioned Dale Sr. having mechanical failures in over having more than half the races for Bud Moore. Dale Sr. went to a team that had a lot of engine problems with Benny Parsons and was continuing to decline after what Bobby Allison had a great season with Bud Moore in 1979. In 1979, Bobby Allison with Bud Moore as owner had 18 top 5's, 22 top 5's, 5 wins, and 3rd in points. The next two seasons, the stats declined in each year to the point that Benny Parsons had 3 wins, 10 top 5's and 13 top 10's and finished 10th in points in 1981. Bud Moore was an organization on the declining when Dale started racing for them in 1982. The engines Bud had were not made to last 500 miles. Bud Moore himself admitted that in the past that his engines had to be babied to last 500 miles because his engines were made to last 300 to 350 miles. When Benny Parsons was at Bud Moore, a lot of engine related problems happened also. When Benny Parsons has a lot of engine problems at Bud Moore, that says a lot because Benny Parsons was not known to be hard on his equipment. When Benny was Bud Moore, he had his worst points finish in years because of engine related problems plagued the 15 team including valve problems. The problems Dale had at Bud Moore were not all on him. What to Dale at Bud Moore in 1982 and 1983 was a continuation of what happened to Benny Parsons in 1981. 171. irony posted: 06.19.2011 - 4:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Dale Sr was in a class of his own. An elite class of which he's the only NASCAR driver I'd put in. Maybe the only American. So Gibbs wants to hire Carl Edwards? How many hot heads can be on one team? 172. JG24FanForever posted: 06.19.2011 - 5:13 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Gordon becomes the first driver to reach 60 Superspeedway wins(paved 1 mile+ tracks)in Cup history. All-time leader's Top 5 1. Jeff Gordon 60 2. Richard Petty 56 3. David Pearson 51 4. Cale Yarborough 48 5. Dale Earnhardt 48 All-time leader's on Superspeedway 2 mile+ 1. Jeff Gordon 26 2. Cale Yarborough 23 3. David Pearson 22 4. Richard Petty 21 5. Bobby Allison 19 Bill Elliott 19 All-time leader's on Giant speedway's 2.5 mile+ 1. Jeff Gordon 21 2. Dale Earnhardt 16 3. Bobby Allison 15 4. Richard Petty 14 5. Cale Yarborough 14 Gordon also surpassed Dale Earnhardt for third all-time in 500 mile+ event wins with his 37th, putting him 1 behind Bobby Allison for second and 4 behind Richard Petty for first. This was also Gordon's 14th career Flat track(Pocono,Indy,New Hampshire,Phoenix,Ontario,Homestead)win furthering the all-time record. 173. cjs3872 posted: 06.19.2011 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF, I wouldn't exactly say that Jim Stacy gutted the tean after he bought it from Rod Osterlund in 1981. Stacy, who had won two races with Neil Bonnett in 1977, was, according to what I once read, NEVER a fan of Earnhardt, so it was entirely possible that he just didn't want him around. The team still was very competitve with Joe Ruttman, nearly winning races with him, and did win twice with Tim Richmond. Stacy wanted to keep Richmond, but a better opportunity came around for Richmond when Raymond Beadle bought M.C. Anderson's team and hired Richmond to replace Cale Yarborough in 1983 when Beadle wanted to run the full schedule, something Yarborough no longer wanted to do. Stacy hired Mark Martin for 1983, and Martin ran very well, but Stacy didn't think a small guy like Martin would have staying power, so he released him and hired Morgan Shepherd, I believe. It wasn't until late in the '83 season that Stacy, as had happened when Bonnett was driving for him in 1978 and '79, ran into financial problems, and eventually sold the team to one of his former crew chiefs, Robert Harrington, who disbanded the team. And I wouldn't call what Dale had with Richard Childress sub-par equipment. He was the second-winningest driver in both 1985 and '86, and the winningest in 1987 and '90. As for your comment about what Dale's career numbers would be if he had signed with Hendrick Motorsports from the beginning. I disagree with that also, as HMS didn't become a consistently successful team until it was about 10 years old. Sure, they had banner seasons in 1986 (9 wins) and 1989 (8 wins), but in no other year in the organization's first decade did they win more than three times. Heck, even Darrell Waltrip only won three times in his first two years there. In their first decade, HMS had three years in which they only won once (1990, '92-'93) and one year in which they failed to score even a single victory (1985) with such drivers as Waltrip, Geoff Bodine, Ken Schrader, Ricky Rudd, and Benny Parsons. So HMS was not an elite team right from the get-go. I believe that if Earnhardt had been hired there in 1984, his career numbers would most likely be less than what they are, not more. 174. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.19.2011 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The problems Dale had at Bud Moore were not all on him. What to Dale at Bud Moore in 1982 and 1983 was a continuation of what happened to Benny Parsons in 1981." Excellent point Eric. Looking back, he probably should have just stuck it out with Richard. Maybe they could have become championship caliber earlier. Richard told him to go elsewhere after '81 because they didn't have the stuff to match his ability. Unfortunately neither did Bud. His other choice was the declining Harry Ranier car which would have been better than Bud. In '85, after a ton of engine failures, Richard once again told Dale to go elsewhere because they weren't good enough for him. This time, he said he was going to stick it out. I guess he learned his lesson from '81. 175. Anonymous posted: 06.19.2011 - 10:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "FACT: Dave is ultimately responsible for his car. FACT: His car was outside of NASCAR's tolerances one week earlier. FACT: He could have stuck with the old oil pans, which would be the smart thing to do one week after getting busted." So whether or not it was intentional means absolutely nothing to you. Got it, you're an idiot. 176. Eric posted: 06.19.2011 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl looking at Gibbs is a great move and besides Gibbs had Stewart, Hamlins, and Kyle as drivers in 2008. Gibbs had to deal with 3 headcases on one team at once before like I mentioned. Gibbs is better than Roush at tracks that are less than a mile. Roush hasn't been known for their short track program either on the cup side. Gibbs has the equipment for winning a cup championship based on the fact they got good to great equipment for all types of tracks. I don't think that is always true for Roush. Gibbs actually has better mile and half and 2 mile oval track program than Kyle and Denny has shown. Before Denny won at Homestead in 2009, Denny won at tracks that were less than a mile besides his wins at Pocono. There had been mile and half tracks that Denny has struggled at, Tony Stewart had better results at the same track at JBR. Stewart matter of fact won at Kansas, Atlanta, Texas Motor speedway, and Chicago in 2006 & 2007 combined as a teammate of Denny. Kyle is a whole different animal because he does give away wins away at no matter what type of track it is despite the amount of wins he has. That shows JBR has the stuff to win at mile and a half tracks besides 2 miles. It is more on the drivers for mile and a half, and 2 mile tracks. 177. Eric posted: 06.19.2011 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree about going to Ranier for Dale Sr. if he didn't stay at RCR. Dale could have won Daytona 500 much earlier if he was with Ranier. Waddell Wilson was with Harry Ranier and is the reason I said that. Waddell Wilson was still at his peak at building engines and his cars were the ones to beat at Daytona back in the late 1970's to 1984. His cars won 3 out of the 5 Daytona 500's from 1980 to 1984. I think Waddell's engines won at least 7 Daytona 500 wins with Holman-Moody, Wood Brothers, L.G. DeWitt, Harry Ranier combined. Waddell Wilson was the engine builder that Dale Earnhardt Sr. needed for places like Michigan. Waddell Wilson engines won around 109 cup races and 123 poles and 3 cup titles. 178. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.19.2011 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It doesn't matter is was intentional or not. Two weeks in a row with an illegal car. That is all that matters. 179. cjs3872 posted: 06.19.2011 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Except, Eric, that Ranier Racing didn't become a full-time team until 1988. Even when Davey Allison won two races in 1987, that team only ran two-thirds of the season. And that was a year after Waddell Wilson left for Hendrick Motorsports. 180. Anonymous posted: 06.19.2011 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It doesn't matter is was intentional or not. Two weeks in a row with an illegal car. That is all that matters." Actually it does matter, because you were implying they were cheaters on the level of Hendrick and Knaus. Those were your words. The types of infractions that just happened to Gibbs are different, and are treated differently by NASCAR. So either change your argument, or shut up, because you can't have it both ways. 181. Eric posted: 06.20.2011 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Ranier ran full time in 1981, and 1982. Ranier actually ran a full time schedule in 1981 with Bobby Allison. Bobby Allison had 5 wins, 21 top 5's,26 top 10's and 2nd in points with that team. Lennie Pond in 1978 had 1 win, 11 top 5's, 19 top 10's in 28 races and finished 7th in points. In 1982, Ranier ran all 30 races with 3 different drivers in Benny Parsons, Buddy Baker, and Joe Ruttman. 182. Peter posted: 06.22.2011 - 8:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boring Racae!! 183. cjs3872 posted: 06.27.2011 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric (#181), thanks for correcting me on that incorrect info. 184. 18fan posted: 08.10.2011 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would say Hendrick really didn't become the ultimately successful team they are now until Chevy brought out the Monte Carlo in 1995. Kevin Harvick tries to mess with Kyle Busch because he knows he can't beat Kyle straight up consistently. Kyle has more top 5 finishes(11; 9 of them top 3s) than Kevin has top 10s(10). Also Kyle has led almost 10x as many laps as Kevin(1087 to 130) and in FOUR different races he led over 150 laps. To show how little Kevin has been up front this year, Clint Bowyer, who is not known for running up front that often, has led TWICE AS MANY laps as Kevin. Clint also had a stronger run at Texas(123.6 driver rating, which was 2nd highest behind winner Matt Kenseth, every lap in the top 10, 44 laps led,average running position 3rd, second most fastest laps behind the dominant Kenseth), than Harvick did in any of his three wins. 185. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #60 Mike Skinner Out using fastest 43: #7 Scott Wimmer 186. Robert Nelson posted: 07.12.2012 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Carl Edwards 136 Kyle Busch 129 Kevin Harvick 116 Jimmie Johnson 101 (4th driver to get 100 points) 187. Jimmie4life posted: 07.26.2019 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only debris cautions in this race. This might be the only cup race with ONLY debris cautions. 188. Jason24 posted: 11.26.2020 - 6:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone know why Sam Hornish Jr was in the 38 car for this race? 189. Mile501 posted: 11.26.2020 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @188 - According to Jayski's news archives, regular driver Travis Kvapil was in Texas for the truck race, so Hornish filled in. 190. JSPorts posted: 11.26.2020 - 8:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, Kvapil was supposed to run full-time for the Truck Series championship in 2011. However, after 10 races, he had only 2 top 10s & ranked 18th in points. His team, Randy Moss Motorsports, merged with Germain Racing & Todd Bodine took over the #5 for the remainder of the season after Todd's #30 team had sponsorship troubles. 191. Rich posted: 12.15.2020 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Matt Yocum, Marty Snider, Ralph Sheheen and Chris Neville were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: