|| *Comments on the 2011 Coke Zero 400 Powered by Coca-Cola:* View the most recent comment <#289> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Spen posted: 07.01.2011 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon teaming with Mark doesn't sound so stupid now, does it? 2. 00andJoe posted: 07.01.2011 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good qualifying runs for Bayne, Andy Lally and Kevin Conway. Good to see Geoff back too. *picks Blaney as the dark horse* 3. 18fan posted: 07.01.2011 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin becomes the 8th driver to win 50 Cup series poles and breaks his tie for 8th on the all time list with Bobby Isaac. 4. BON GORDON posted: 07.02.2011 - 1:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know its early and i could be wrong but ole BIG DADDY and Mark the kid Martin are gonna be tougg tonight. 5. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.02.2011 - 7:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Better question: How long for the Gibbs cars to lead? 6. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.02.2011 - 12:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who will be the guy in this race who causes multiple wrecks trying to push people? At Daytona it was Mikey, at Dega it was Kurt Busch. Who will be the guy this time? My pick: My guy, Brad. In 4 of the last 5 plate races he has been wrecked or caught up in a wreck that wasn't his making. He has to be frustrated and looking to be agressive, to be the one causing the chaos instead of being bit by it. We saw last week "Bad Brad" is still there (I mean that as a compliment) and not one to be pushed around. 7. Spen posted: 07.02.2011 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a comment for cjs3872, in response to something he said on the Sears Point race. Yes, I agree that Mark and Jeff will probably drop to the back early. That fits in with both of thier styles lately (remember Talladega '07?) However, I don't think the pairing is a mistake. I think that Jeff is going to try to push Mark to the win. Jeff's pretty much locked into the chase, but Mark needs a win if he's going to have any shot at all at making it. And considering how strong the Hendrick cars are at the plate tracks right now, this would be his best chance. So I think Jeff's going to try to get all four Hendrick cars into the chase for the first time. But yeah, they will hang around the back for quite a while. But after the inevitable caution, I think they'll be strong enough to get up to the front when they need to. And Jeff knows that Mark's not comfortable being the pusher, so they'll have a better chance with Jeff pushing. While we're on the subject of Mark, you've stated that you believe his age is the reason why he hasn't been very competitive lately. While I'm sure it isn't helping matters, I don't think that's the whole problem. I think losing the championship in '09 really got to Mark. I think he finally realized that he's never going to win one. And I believe that's caused a loss of confidence for him. I think a similar thing happened to Jeff after losing in '07: he realized that he's never going to top Petty and Earnhardt in championships, and that has caused him to take a more lazaire-faire approach to racing. In Mark's case, when you combine that with a few personnel shifts between the 5 and 88 in '10, plus Gustafson's inexplicable desision to use the previous year's setups for most races, and now getting saddled with Lance McGrew, and being a "lame duck" driver, the fact that he's still within one race of being in the top ten at the halfway point isn't too bad at all. If Jeff can push him to a win tonight, at a track that has long been on his "to do" list, I think it might bring him back to himself a bit. Not championship condending or anything, but more able to get top 15's out of 20th place runs. And maybe giving him incentive to look for a good ride next year. (Perhaps a final year at Roush, if Edwards leaves and Ragan gets canned. Stenhouse could take over the 99, and Mark could get the bugs out of the 6 before Bayne steps in. I don't think that Ragan is the cause of all the 6's problem's; rather, his inability to tell the crew what needs to be done with the car leads to problems festering.) Incidentally, you said that you belive Kasey Kahne will be a major improvement next year because he's tewnty-one years younger than Mark. That theory sure worked with Michael Waltrip and Morgan Shepherd, didn't it? Granted, Kasey is a talented driver while Mikey is not, but still, age isn't the only determining factor. I do expect Kasey to have a very good year next year, though. I think Hendrick will throw a lot of stuff at the 5, and see if he can win a championship. If he fails, like Junior in '08, or Mark in '09, then Kasey might be in for a long stretch of mediocrity. 8. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.02.2011 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I Nostradamus or what? Lap 5. 9. Frank posted: 07.02.2011 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, you are the prophet! 10. Anonymous85 posted: 07.02.2011 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A message to the drivers racing tonight Use your damm heads and stop racing like imbeciles 11. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.02.2011 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OH MY GOD, KRASHALOTSKI WRECKS EVERYONE!!!! In all seriousness, sucks for Bayne 12. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.02.2011 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hmmm, June takes the lead but the crowd didn't cheer like they do when he takes the lead on FOX or ESPN. Or like they did for Danica on ESPN last night. I wonder why. 13. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.02.2011 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Probably were asleep from this BORING Two-Car-Tango crap. 14. Anonymous85 posted: 07.02.2011 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Big E said that Restrictor plate racing wasnt real racing well I say that it has become even less real now then all the times he was racing and winning at those tracks 15. nascarfreak99 posted: 07.02.2011 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ford's taking a huge beating early >:( 16. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.02.2011 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Geoff Bodine caused a wreck. I would poke fun at him but my driver caused a wreck too. 17. reffy posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awesome save by Jeff. I see no reason why a caution flag couldn't have been avoided, though, since no one hit him. (posting this with three laps to go, btw.) 18. reffy posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...except for artificially bunching up the field, which NASCAR would NEVER, EVER do /sarcasm. 19. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gee, this doesn't look familiar... 20. Beau posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 13. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.02.11 - 8:18 pm "Probably were asleep from this BORING Two-Car-Tango crap." LOL, this two-car tango crap actually has me watching a whole race for once. 21. reffy posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red Bull's chances at redemption are officially gone, unless Kasey can pull of a miracle. They had a chance to win this until bonehead Logano wrecked half the field (remind me how he got the name "sliced bread" again?). 22. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well that was a cluster.... 23. Frank posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now sweet tears of all kind of revenge from Daytona 500 will flow from everywhere. Take the small one, David. And now it will be really hard to move him out of #6. Especially if he will sneak into Chase 24. Spen posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats David Ragan! Kudos for proving me and Willy wrong. 25. reffy posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This race in one word: yawn. I could see the finish from a mile away, once the second GWC happened. This was pretty much my first Cup race in forever, and I don't know if I'll be watching more. One thing is for sure though: the fix is in. Tony Stewart was pretty much spot on when he compared NASCAR to wrestling a few years ago... only NASCAR has become even more boring, cliched and predictable than wrestling ever was. Every race now is an artificially created "product" with about five green white checkers in the last laps, with an artificial - sure, it was fun when it was a novelty, but than every race became that. About every fan with an IQ in the double digits are leaving the sport, and NASCAR's wondering why. I honestly think it's their strategy to cater to NFL fans. You know how a football has about five minutes of game, spliced in with twenty minute breaks? That's basically the NASCAR of today. The GWC crashes themselves look like the same ones we've been accustomed to; I honestly would not be surprised if it turns out they choreograph it. Any NASCAR writers reading this? Here's two ways to get "profits" and "turnout rates" than you have now: - Bring back racing to the caution. If the COT is so safe as they say, than it should be fine now. - Stop fixing races. Be honest, everyone knows it now. The chase? Keep it, it's a nice novelty, and it's up to you. Of course, it will never happen, but it's fun to think about. 26. Beau posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reffy: Are you SERIOUS? 27. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.02.2011 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boring race with an anticlimactic finish. Nuff said. Proves that the good racing here in February was a fluke. You guys know how much I hate the Two-Car Tango, so I'll spare you guys the rant. 28. 18fan posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate the stupid two car tango. That is why I am at my local track right now. Win #1 for the next Michael Waltrip and he needed a green white checker to do it. This probably secured his seat for next year and might sneak into the chase undeservingly. 29. 00andJoe posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to David Ragan! This was a fun and exciting race, no idea where "boring" comes from. Mice chase cats, cats chase dogs, Mark Martin's error in judgement starts the Big One. How the heck did David "No Luck" Gilliand miss not one, not two, but three wrecks?! Superb runs by Casey Mears and Landon Cassill end in heartbreak. Joe Nemechek has a good run Big One'd too. He took the lead, under green, in the middle of the race. Can SOMEBODY sponsor this team? Please? Dave Blaney is probably wishing Geoff Bodine had taken his sponsor elsewhere... Once again the 48 team makes a questionable pit call and it bites them. Now, I know, I know, they focus on the Chase, wait till the last 10 races, etc, but I have to say Jimmie is looking vulnerable. They can't count on somebody gift-wrapping them a championship again like happened last year (let alone two somebodies). Oh, and reffy: I want to know what you're smoking, because it's clearly some REALLY good stuff. 30. 00andJoe posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #12: TNT kicks the rears of FOX and ESPN so hard they landed in next week. #17/18: Seeing as Jeff nearly took out three different cars in that spin, IMHO the caution was completely justified - a car sideways in the middle of the track like that is rarely missed as well as the 24 was. #21: It was Mark's fault. In other news, man bites dog! 31. reffy posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @26 - not really, that's mostly a rant made literally immediately after the race was over, but connect the dots between the 500 and this race, and rewind to when the GWC's started happening - that's all I'm saying. Sane people should be expected to question what's fed to them, though. 32. cjs3872 posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, the reason I think that Martin's age is a serious handicap is a lesson learned by history. In 1992, when he was Mark's current age, Harry Gant was a serious challenger for the championship, finishing fourth in the points and scoring two wins (both on fuel mileage, at Dover and Michigan) and even having an arithmatic chance at the championship in the season's final race at Atlanta. But in 1993, he fell off the map, much as what Martin has done this year. Unlike Martin and Gant, Morgan Shepherd was more competitve in his 50s, winning at Atlanta in 1993, and competing for wins during his entire time with the Wood Brothers, and even finishing fifth at the Brickyard in 1996 for Butch Mock Motorsports, four months before his 55th birthday. So Martin's rapid decline is, to me, no big surprise at all. That's why I think Kahne will be more successful next year, as being younger will also mean that he'll drive the car harder, though Kahne isn't exactly known for his aggressiveness, either. (Darrell Waltrip once said during the rain delay prior to the 2004 Firecracker 400 that Kahne, is his mind, needed to be more aggressive. Bobby Allison and Dale Earnhardt, Sr. also became less competitve when they reached their late 40s, though they were still winning drivers, and Richard Petty became a non-factor when he turned 50, though the overall decline in his team had a lot to do with that. Now for the race, Trevor Bayne's fifth lap crash had to do with two things. One was the fact that he was a single-car team, and had no drafting partner early. I knew he would drop back, though I didn't think it would be for that reason. The other was a boneheaded move by Brad Keselowski who, for some reason was on Bayne's left flank, instead of his right. (Bayne's luck after his Daytona 500 win this year would make the Andretti family fortunes at Indy, as well as those for the late Lloyd Ruby, look like hitting the lottery.) The race, as I predicted shattered the race record for lead changes, with 58. (The old record had been 48, set in 1974.) The 25 leaders also set a race and track record. There were the usual amount of carnage in the race, with big crashes, though Carl Edwards, who finished second in the Daytona 500, was no more successful than Bayne was, also crashing early. Also, with the way things have big going on the marquee events this year, it was no surprise that David Ragan won the event. Of the six major events this year, three have been won by first-timers (Bayne in the Daytona 500, Regan Smith in the Southern 500, and now Ragan in the Firecraker 400) were by first-timers, while Bayne's Daytona 500 win, as well as Dan Wheldon's Indianapolis 500 win, were by part-time, or one-off teams. Makes you wonder whether or not the Brickyard 400 will crown a first-time winner for the first time in it's history, as it's the only big event left on the American racing calendar this year. Also, Ragan joined A.J. Foyt (1964), Sam McQuagg (1966), Greg Sacks (1985), Jimmy Spencer (1994), John Andretti (1997), and Greg Biffle (2003) as the seventh driver to make the Firecracker 400 his first NASCAR victory. It also makes 2011 the second year in which both Daytona races crowned a first-time winner (1994 was the only previous year that this happened). And amazingly, Ragan's win was the FIRST EVER by a car #6 at Daytona. The #6 had never previously won at Daytona, not just with Roush Racing, but it never won at Daytona when Cotton Owens campaigned it though 1973, either. (Charlie Glotzbach twice finished second in the Daytona 500 in it, in 1969, and '72.) It also gives Ragan a much better chance to stay in the #6 car next year, but he'll still have to perform better in the other events left on the circuit to keep Ricky Stenhouse from taking the #6 ride for next year (not Bayne as Spen mentioned in that post blasting me for saying that main problem regarding the performance of Martin's car is his age). It'll be Stenhouse over Bayne if Carl Edwards re-signs with Roush, which he'd be dumb not to do. Bayne would stay with the Wood Brothers if Roush doesn't release him for lack of sponsorship, since his personality fits that of the team. 33. Cooper posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah I've given up on this kind of racing. Unfortunately it's going to be here for a long time. And I f**king hate NASCAR. The scoring is all wrong. Vickers flew down pit lane at 190 MPH to avoid a wreck... and didn't slow down to a manageable speed. Thats a penalty. But nope, NASCAR's rule book just flew out the window. Kurt Busch didn't slow down as well. And he blew by Keselowski even though the caution was out. And of course he's scored ahead of the #2. Who needs to slow down for a caution? Theres only a racecar sitting in the middle of the track. There's NASCAR other rule book out the window. NASCAR can take their rule book and shove it where the sun don't shine. 34. potatosalad48 posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to David Ragan on his 1st Cup win. I was doubting whether he could make it in the big leagues. 35. BLabonte47 posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski continues to show he's a moron wrecking ball taking out poor Trevor Bayne. I think Carl or Kyle need to get after this punk again and show him that he needs to be racing with respect and not wrecking the field every week. 36. 00andJoe posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) - The first caution also involved the #1 and #47. - #87 sponsor: AM FM Energy/Extenze 37. Nick posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty tame race sans the last few laps. Sad to see Bayne be taken out so early, I like the kid but heck, since his win he has had a tough year. I thought for sure that Hendrick's cars might have waited too long since it didn't look like they may get a caution but the 5/24 were able to reel in the pack. Gordon makes a nice save, I thought for sure once the car went straight it'd also hook back to the right and hit the outside wall but luckily he already had is wheel cut to the left. While we didn't have a 3 wide run to the finish, I'm finding the evolution of the two car-tango interesting as these guys learn more and more of how to use it. Is it just me or does Mark Martin seem to find a wreck no matter where he is on the track (at the plate races)? Overall, fewer bonehead moves then the other 2 plate races this year, IMHO. On to Kentucky where I think we'll see a good race as the track surface will already have some age on it (which has seemingly become a sin as of late). I'm not sure who to expect up front but I'm thinking Roush next week, as it's a flatter 1.5 mile track. 38. irony posted: 07.02.2011 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sane people should be expected to question what's fed to them, though." It'd be nice. Oh you're talking about NASCAR. I like the GWC rule to be honest, but 3 attempts is insane. I said in this year's Indy 500 comments that Ragan woulda been the worst driver to ever win the Daytona 500. Guess I was wrong, but he may become the worst to ever make the Chase with this one win. Jr and JJ screwed themselves by laying back. Jr still made it to 3rd near the end but got involved in the wreck. Kudos to Mears and Cassill for being up front all night, but their pit crews kept putting them back. 39. 00andJoe posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) irony - Would Ragan be better or worse than Jeremy Mayfield? 40. irony posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Worse by far. Mayfield looked like a potential star early in 1998. Ragan never really has. Mayfield made the Chase by being top 10 in points. Ragan won't. 41. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Hendrick guys had a terrible game plan tonight. Nice job for JPM to hang on to 9th with a destroyed race car, just like Aric did last night lol. Although he got roasted by the TNT crew again this week for the way he was slam-drafting McMurarry.....in the end it was Jamie Mac that took him and Jr out on the last lap. Joey Logano almost wrecked his way to a weekend sweep. That's just how I saw it but if anyone dissagrees, that's fine. Congrats to David Ragan on his first win. Ambrose and Allmendinger, you guys are up next! 42. Sean posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Discussing Mayfield as the worst chaser is pretty weird when Brian Vickers and Elliott Sadler have made the chase and done little else; a couple years from now it might even be time to add Martin Truex, Jr. to that pile. IF Ragan makes the chase, I would pick him as the worst ever, but I rather expect at least one of Stewart, Biffle, Montoya (only at Watkins Glen or Pocono), Martin, or Kahne to win a race between now and Richmond and be ahead of Ragan in points. I don't think he's going to make the chase anyway. 43. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, yes he would. At least Mayfield won on some tough tracks, including twice at Pocono (and should have been three), and his performance at Richmond in 2004 to make the first Chase field is still one of the great clutch performances in the sport's recent history. And irony, will these drivers ever learn that you can't lay back at Daytona like you can at Talladega because the track at Daytona is two lanes narrower, and because of that, you don't have as much room to work back to the front. And the problems that you mentioned that Cassill and Mears had are the exact problems that I though Bayne would also have had, had he made it that far. Bayne's short night, as I mentioned in post #32 was a result of one of the problems facing his, as well as Cassill's and Mears' team, being single-car operations, and that is the fact that none of those guys had drafting partners for the race, otherwise Bayne would never have been in that wreck. The other problem, as you mentioned, and what I thought would happen to Bayne, was slow pit stops by lesser pit crews. Remember that Regan Smith doesn't have that handicap, as he has a Stewart-Haas Racing crew to pit his car. I'm surprise that roush doesn't have one of his Nationwide pit crews at least help pit the Wood Brothers' car, as long as one of his development drivers is driving the car, as Bayne more likey than not will be driving on a part-time basis again next year, if he has a contract for next year, which he currently doesn't have. I'm also surprised that Phoenix Racing doesn't have a similar situation with either Kevin Harevick, Inc. or Dale Earnhardt, Jr.'s NNS team to help pit their car top help Landon Cassill. 44. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) AlmirolaFan88, no, they had a typical restrictor plate plan they've been using for about four years now, and as I mentioned in my last post, it just doesn't work at Daytona because of the narrower track. I don't recall a driver ever laying back intentionally at Daytona that seriously contended for the win. 45. 12345Dude posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 'm trying to not be negative on these forums. But what was the point for the caution? There never should of been a green white checkered. There wouldn't of been 20 cars wrecked and it would of been a better finish. My Dad who doesn't like nascar said it best. Here comes the stupid wrecking again at the green white checkered. All that stupid wrecking could of been avoided. Why does nascar call these stupid cautions for no reason? I was also thinking can we already call Jimmie Johnson the 2011 champion? I was going to post this following stuff on the nationwide board but I think that thread is dead 1. Can someone explain to me why Trevor Bayne and Ricky Stenhouse can't find sponcership? There are so many crappy nw cup and truck drivers thst are awful and have sponcership. 2. Also I'm declaring Elliott Sadler the Nationwide champion. Don't go crazy let me explain. Let me also explain why Kevin Harvick won't win the sprint cup title in 2011. Kevin Harvick has gone from being obsessed with racing nationwide races to now being obsessed with winning a nationwide title. Elliott Sadler can't stop talking about how Kevin has put so much effort into the team. Elliott who has been horrible for so long now has his confidence back along with a full time sponcer which they had before the season when sadler bombed for 10 years in cup. Kevin also has been really bad at nationwide races this year. He might be testing in some of those races for the 2 car. Some of Sadlers races in trucks have been used to test for nationwide. He's putting all these cars in at Daytona so Sadler could have someone to draft with. This will distract Harvick from the title. Along with others reasons that I have mentioned in other posts. Also do you guys know about the secret penalties nascar gives out to the drivers? Its not me being a conspiracy theriost. They have been announced. Newman was for punching Montoya in a nascar meeting fined 50000. Along with complaining with how nascar deals with the plate races he was fined 1000000. Denny Hamlin was fined 50000 for saying something about nascar on twitter. Nascar has taken the freedom of speach away from the nascar drivers. Which stinks because I would of loved to here what they thought about that bogus caution. The other reason I think JJ will win the title is because Roush won't give Carl Edwards the best equipment in the chase if he's leaving. Which I think he will. Funny note. Carl Edwards was rumored to move into the 20 in 2012 two weeks ago. Since then Logano has a 6th a 3rd and a Pole. Also my comma key is broken. 46. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, Point taken, but if they've been using it for 4 years here with limited to no success, you think they'd know better by now right? All 4 of them had cars capable of staying out front all night long. 47. 00andJoe posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #44: They threw the caution for the same reason they threw one last night when Nemechek and Conway got into the wall: they were expecting Gordon to come around and take out a bunch more cars. Note that the caution came out halfway through his spin; also, as it was he nearly took out Menard (I think it was), Montoya and Mears, all of whom missed him by fractions. 48. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You overstated how much Harry Gant declined in 1993 compared to 1992 a first place. While Harry was 4th points,it is debatable on what his point finish really would have been in 1992 for 29 races for other cup seasons. 1992 was a down year for Rusty Wallace and Dale Earnhardt Sr at point that where they should have had a better 1992 season than they did at that point in their cup career. Rusty was with a Penske team that was in its 2nd year back after Roger being gone from the cup series in a while. While 1992 was a great year for the cup title for being close championship in points, it was a down year for the cup series in terms of stats. Alan Kulwicki's stats in top 5's and top 10's usually can't give a driver cup championship. In 1992, Ricky Rudd led cup drivers with 18 top 10's despite the chevy's having a disadvantage that year. 4 cup drivers had 17 top 10's. That season didn't have a cup driver with 20 top 10's a season for the first time in a long time. Alan Kulwicki had the lowest stats out of a cup driver as a cup champion for top 5's and top 10's since the first the first 2 years the cup series exists in 1949 & 1950. Yes, Harry declined in laps led, and having no wins. The catch is his amount of top 10's didn't decline a lot. You would have had a stronger argument if you compared 1991 to 1993. Harry Gant in 1993 only had 3 less top 10's in 1993 compared to 1992 despite the fact he lost Andy Petree to crew chief Dale Earnhardt Sr. to cup championships in 1993 & 1994. Where Harry dropped off big time was in amount of top 5's and 142 less laps led besides not having a win. The decline in top 5's was noticeable even in 1992 when he dropped from 15 top 5's to 10 top 5's. 49. martin-n-rusty posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seeing the replays of the last laps of the race, does anybody have a wrecker to spare?!? 50. 12345Dude posted: 07.03.2011 - 1:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @46 They should of waited untill a wreck happen. Drivers make crazy saves it seems like all the time now. 51. 12345Dude posted: 07.03.2011 - 1:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know I complain a lot but I was very happy to see David Ragan win after what happen at the Daytona 500. This year feels like when I started watching in 2002 . A new winner every week. I love it. 52. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.03.2011 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, David Ragan pulls a surprise win out of his ass. I'm not entirely surprised, as Roush Racing has flat out been ON IT all year. Edwards has been having a Terry Labonte-like season by recording top 5's and 10's like crazy, and having a teammate (Kenseth) score more wins than him. The good news for Ragan is probably that this win will keep him in the seat of that #6 car longer... *sigh* The only good thing I have to say about David is that at least he's somewhat decent behind the wheel when Roush Racing is flat out kicking ass, but otherwise? Forget about it. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he doesn't know when/when not to be aggressive behind the wheel. Roush's cars were just so good in 2008 and this year that he can get away with conservative driving and still finish well. Paul Menard continues his decent year with yet another top 10, and Allmendinger records another for his 2011 record as well. 53. BON GORDON posted: 07.03.2011 - 1:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Missed the race untill the end. I was mad when Gordon got spun but somehow he came form like 17th to 6th in the last two laps. Good points day, moved to 8th in points. Congrats to David Ragan and the 6 bunch, I wouldn't have picked him to win. 54. 18fan posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it was a little suspicious that Kenseth didn't attempt to pull out and pass Ragan. Could Jack Roush have told Kenseth to not pass David so he could win. 55. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You can't pull out to make a winning pass unless you have a big enough lead. If your the pusher in this two car tandem system, your pretty much committed to finishing 2nd. 56. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What an awful race. Actually, I hesitate to even use the term "race" to describe what I watched. Basically it was about 30 cars taking turns going to the lead and falling back for 155 laps, and then a mad, crash-filled dash in the final 5 laps. Nothing that happened in the race until 3 laps to go mattered whatsoever. It didn't matter when you pitted, it didn't matter who was behind you, it didn't matter whether you were up front or in the back, as long as you stayed on the lead lap. With this racing, all you do is ride around for 99% of the race, and then push hard and cross your fingers. It's a sham. It's a lottery. Are they people who really enjoy this style of "racing"? Anyone can do it, and anyone can win. There is no skill, just luck. If NASCAR doesn't change this, I'm skipping the restrictor plate races. Maybe I'll tune in for the final, inevitable green white checker finish, because that is literally the only part of these races that matter. 99% of what happened in this race had no bearing on the ending. And I know some dimwits are going to be impressed by these "exciting" finishes and forget that they just sat through 3 hours of cars driving around doing nothing of significance. Oh well. Bring on Kentucky. I know it's a 1.5 mile track, but after this Daytona Debacle, I'm ready for anything where the drivers actually have some control and can do something you can legally call racing. And Ragan winning... who cares. Just like Bayne, it really was just a matter of luck, crashes, and a bunch of other pointless BS. Wake me when either one wins a real race. 57. 18fan posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes that's true, but this was the only race at Daytona except for one of the duels that the pusher in the leading pair did not pull out and try to pass the leader. 58. Red posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) From the human perspective, I was happy for David Ragan to win this race. He seems like a good kid and hopefully this will ease his pain from giving away the 500 earlier this year. But from a racing perspective, watching David win made me want to throw up. He's still a major underachiever in great equipment, and he does NOT deserve the ride he has. I fear that this win will keep him in the #6 for another year, when by rights he should be out already. And now he'll probably steal a chase spot and keep a more deserving driver out. Disgusting. I think the two-car draft is more entertaining at Daytona than Dega, because the track is narrow and it keeps the pairs much closer together. Conversely, watching the two-car draft at Dega is like watching guys drive around in an empty parking lot. Even with the crashfest ending, I thought this was a pretty fair race. Seven of the top eight finishers (everyone but Gordon) spent most of the night up front, which I'm glad to see rewarded. Shockingly strong runs by the duo of Casey Mears and Landon Cassill. Oh wait, the #51 used to be the #09, so maybe it's not that surprising. More heartbreak for Martin Truex Jr. The poor guy is just snakebit. Despite leading 16 laps, I knew he would get wrecked, because something shitty always happens to him when he's contending for a win. And that's exactly what happened. Surprising stat of the day: David Gilliland leads all Cup drivers for average finish in plate races this year (9.3) 59. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i would like to take a few laps around daytona in a jackhammer to put some bumps in daytona's pavement, get rid of the two car crap, and put it back to the old daytona, last years coke zero 400 was a more fun race to watch. 60. martin-n-rusty posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, that damn sharkfin on their rear windows help make those drivers make those stupidly ricidiclous saves 61. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Terry Labonte and Andy Lally were a surprising duo too until Labonte's rear bumper came off. Regan Smith ran well all night, but didn't get the finish. 62. Larry posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another race, another wreck not of his causing for Bobby Labonte. Talk about a driver who can't catch a break. 63. PJ1989 posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) So I'm pretty much done with this tandem racing. It's a farce. And at the end of these things, it really bugs me that some drivers commit to push and others get to reap the benefits of winning. Let's call it what it is, team orders, the same crap we endlessly deride in Formula 1. If you like the idea of some drivers giving up a win to help others, please stop watching NASCAR, because it goes against everything I believe this sport should be about. And it's not really the drivers' fault, but in another way it is. Obviously they are doing the tandem thing because everyone else is doing the tandem thing, and it's the only way to keep up. But if everyone was just racing for themselves we wouldn't have this crap. It makes me sick that Kenseth or Kahne wouldn't try to step out to win because they were committed to pushing Ragan and Logano. And even though these endings can be somewhat exciting, pretty much the entire race prior to the end is a giant waste of time. Your only objective for 159 laps is not to wreck, then pray that you have an open lane to the front, because everyone else is doing the exact same thing. It's too easy. That's why we have guys like Bayne and Ragan winning these things. Johnson's win at Talladega was all luck and timing as well. To me, that's not racing. What we have here now at Daytona and Talladega is a farce, at best. And I know the drivers aren't going to change, so the rule package needs to change. SOMETHING has to change. Something needs to be done to save the racing at these tracks, because like most of the drivers and (hopefully) most fans, I'm sick of it. It barely qualifies as racing, everyone acts conservative for 159 laps, and then it's a lottery until the end. Ragan is just lucky his number got picked this time. 64. Anonymous85 posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Race was just atrocious this manufactured Garbage was worse then the unrestricted aero-push superspeedway races I'd prefer the racing at the new Bristol motor speedway over this nonsense because this race was pathetic 65. BON GORDON posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah it's early in the morning. I just wanted to comment on Red's comment (post #56) about how everyone who ran up front is deserving of their finish and what not. I don't understand why you had to make it clear that Gordon didn't run up front. Gordon is just as deserving if not more deserving then others for his Top Ten finish. So what if he ran around the back utill the end. That was the plan. He even got spun out with two to go and was able to make it back to sixth before the wreck in turns three and four happened. It seemed like every time Gordon ran up front at Daytona or Talladega he would get in an accident. While running in the back of the pack this year and coming to the front at the end he has finished a third and sixth. Good for him. Oh and lets not forget his great win in the 2007 UAW/Ford 400 at Talladega. Gordon is one of the most underrated plate drivers ever. Earnhardt, Baker, and Petty are all considered the best however BIG DADDY has the most wins on plate tracks with 12. 66. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought this was an exciting race. Good to see that there was less cautions and more racing, but of course, NASCAR still made some pointless calls (#99 spin, #24 not quite spinning). For my guy, Marcos Ambrose, 16th place was a miracle. He and AJ had something worked out all race and were looking pretty good as the raced panned out, but the #43 had problems during the last pit stop that saw both of them a lap down. Both were able to get the lucky dog on the two GWC, but still, they were very, very lucky to end up where they did. Just quickly touching on the new drafting - I'm obviously in the minority when I say that I prefer this to the old style. Why? Because the drivers now have more control over their own destiny. Yes, it's still crazy and there's always a chance of being caught in a wreck. But it's not as random as it once was, and I like that. My guy has had some terrible runs at the plate tracks, just by being caught up in the mess that was the old style of racing. This race, he also had a bad run, but that was simply through his own doing. I feel much better after this race than I did in the previous ones. 67. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.03.2011 - 6:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano has exceptional talent... for wrecking people. Great to see Ragan; he finally can shut up the haters, even if Kevin Conway could just as easily win here. Does anyone know what caused the big wreck on the last lap? Highlights don't show it. Thumps up to DSFF for saying Brad would dump somebody; Brad wasted no time in fulfilling that prophecy. 68. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.03.2011 - 7:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know who Bayne reminds me of, having read Father Grubba's biography? Alan Kulwicki. He is trying to do his best in absolute crap for cars, which is what Kulwicki did. Take it easy and do your own thing, and then charge at crunch time 69. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.03.2011 - 7:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bayne reminds me of Alan Kulwicki (who I have only read Father Grubba's biography of). Take it easy, do your own thing, and charge to the front at crunch time. 70. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.03.2011 - 7:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry, thought it didn't register comment 64, so I resubmitted it as 65. 71. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow am I dumb. I meant I thought it didn't register my comment (#68). 72. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fastest race at Daytona since Pepsi 400 in 2003. 73. mrittenhouse84 posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me this plate racing is better than the "pack" racing. Sure that looked cool, but unless you have a group of cars making the same move, you cannot really pass. Esp when it comes down to the last lap, how many times have we seen the leader with 10 to go win because the rest of the field waits to long to make their move? This style of racing gives you options. You can basically pass at will if you want, and you are not stuck anywhere. Also no one mentioned that Harvick and Menard, basically had the best tandem all night. They were able to just hang around the front all night, and move to the front when they felt like it. Had the Big one not happened in turn 1 on the restart, They had it timed perfect to grab the lead on the white. Harvick himself admitted that he screwed up on the second restart, and that's what cost he and Menard in the end. 74. Brad24 posted: 07.03.2011 - 9:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go David! That's good stuff. 3rd first-time winner in 2011. Before the season started, I thought that it would just be the RPM cars of Ambrose and Allmendinger getting their first wins. I certainly never thought that Bayne, Smith, and Ragan would win. Whoda thunk it?! 75. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.03.2011 - 9:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The winner of this week's "Jeff Gordon Memorial How The Hell Did He Finish There With All The Adversity Thrown His Way Award" goes to....... Jeff Gordon. All he was missing was an old "Refuse To Lose" t shirt. With him and Alan gaining momentum slowly but surely, when can we start declaring him as a serious championship threat? He is rock solid mentally and has always had the ability to keep fighting in the face of adversity. I echo Red's sentiments. I'm happy for David, he is a nice kid and it feels good to see him as a person win. But for the sport this isn't good. Overall he is still miles behind his 3 teammates. He still needs to be replaced next year. 76. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 9:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude (#45), I believe a big reason why Bayne can't find sponsorship is that he drives too conservatively, as I have mentioned often and NicorosbergFan has also pointed out. He just won't drive his car to the front on open tracks. (He never had a chance in the Firecracker 400 as he was left alone because he didn't have a teammate. If Edwards' crash had happened before his, Bayne would probably have had Greg Biffle for a drafting partner. If he has a ride for next year, it will probably be the #21 car for the same number, if not fewer races. But as of now, he doesn't have a contract for next year.) As for Stenhouse, Ragan's proabale replacement in the #6 Cup car if Ragan is released, he does have sponsorship for a portion of the season, but why he isn't sponsored full-time is beyond me, becuse he WILL drive even an ill-handling car to the front. I also agree with those that say that this is better plate racing than the pack racing, because you often got stuck and couldn't move. Even if you were in second or third place, you couldn't make a move if your life depended on it. But this style of racing has its drawbacks, as well, as Bayne and Edwards could tell you after last night. Isn't it ironic that the top two finishers in the Daytona 500 brought out the first two cautions in the race last night? The driver in the second car is driving blind, while the driver in the lead car is trusting the driver behing him not to make a mistake. And Brad Keselowski's mistake last night was a boneheaded one. He could see every trailing car in front of him offset to the right of the lead car, so what does he do? He offsets to the left of Bayne. Well in that case the lead car is going to spin out every time. The same thing happened, though to a lesser degree between Biffle and Edwards. In Biffle's defense, Edwards was, at that point, attempting to pass Regan Smith, so that put Biffle on Edwards' left rear instead of his right rear, causing Edwards to crash. BON GORDON, your point about best restrictor plate racers doesn't make ver much sense, since Petty, Baker and the drivers of their generation didn't have restrictor plates (the modern version) until the 1988 Daytona 500, meaning they drove at Daytona and Talladega wide open, so your comparison where those drivers are concerned just doesn't add up. As for Jeff Gordon being an underrated plate driver, that doesn't make sense either, because of his 12 wins, six each at Daytona and Talladega. How the winningest driver in a form of racing possibly be UNDERRATED? NicoRosbergFan, the thing about Kulwicki is that he drove his own cars, so he had to be conservative. But he was a fast driver, winning 24 pole positions, though he only won five races. Bayne doesn't have to be conservative, espaecially in the Nationwide series, he just chooses to be. There's a big difference between the two. I also think the new generation car and Bayne's driving style just don't go together, either, because you have to muscle the car around the track. He was more comfortable in the more aerodynamic car that was retired in the Nationwide series after last year, because Bayne's style is more precision-based. He's more a precise driver than a driver that will muscle a car around the track, again along the lines of a Terry Labonte. And also, 18fan, Kenseth couldn't risk trying to pass Ragan because if he did, the third and fourth place cars would have just blown by both of them. And by the time that Kenseth would have been able to try to make a move, the caution came out, automatically ending the race. It's better to run second in a team 1-2 finish, as Kenseth did ratrher than trying a pass in the wrong place and having neither of your team's cars win. I think Kenseth would have at least attempted to pass Ragan, but the caution came out before Kenseth had an opportunity. Also, Kenseth may have been playing wingman to Ragan, pushing him to victory, just like Dale Earnhardt, Sr. and Jr. did for Michael Waltrip in the 2001 Daytona 500. Dale, Jr. didn't try to pass Waltrip then because he had experienced victory in the Cup series before (Texas in 2000), and Dale, Sr. (running third) didn't want anyone behind him to get into the picture. In effect, giving Waltrip (who had never won before on the circuit) two wingmen for that finish, neither of whom had any intentions of winning themselves. 77. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.03.2011 - 9:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) love seeing Ragan win, seems like a legit nice guy. and just like the 2007 Daytona 500, NASCAR proves again driver safety is their priority....ummmmmmm..............unless it means screwing up a possible good finish, than screw driver safety. 78. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 35. BLabonte47 posted: 07.02.11 - 11:53 pm "Brad Keselowski continues to show he's a moron wrecking ball taking out poor Trevor Bayne. I think Carl or Kyle need to get after this punk again and show him that he needs to be racing with respect and not wrecking the field every week." It's called an accident. Same thing happened to Brad in the 500 and at Dega'. Don't know what your secret agenda is, but it has something to do with degrading BK... 79. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) for all those whining about how they want old style pack racing daytona back did anyone happen to notice that the cars were in a pack about 90 percent of the time? 80. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, it was a boneheaded move on Keselowski's part. He could see, or at least be told, that the other cars that were trailing were offset from the car they were pushing were offset to the right, but he was offset from Trevor Bayne's car to the left, and as I mentioned in post #76 (second paragraph), that will turn the leading car around every single time. When the replay was shown, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were right on it immediately. (Dallenbach proving again why he is, in my mind, the best of the NASCAR TV analysts, because he calls it as he sees it, unlike some, if not most of the others.) Also, doesn't anyone else think it's more than a bit ironic that Ragan would get his first NASCAR win in the Firecracker 400 on Richard Petty's birthday. The reason I bring this up is the finish of the 1984 Firecracker 400, Petty's final win as a driver. Everyone knows that it was a duel between Petty and Cale Yarborough racing to the final caution flag. What people don't know is that there was a third car in the shot of that moment. As Petty and Yarborough were racing to the flag, they were approaching a lapped car. That lapped car was the #77 McCord Gaskets car driven by none other than Ken Ragan, David's father, meaning that Ken Ragan was, indirecty a part of one the most memorable moments in NASCAR and Daytona history, and in one of the most memorable finish line photos in the sport's history, as his car is seen in most photos of that moment, as Petty is nipping Yarborough at the caution. Given Ken Ragan's spot in that moment in NASCAR history that's frozen in time to many people, it's certainly ironic that his son David would get his first win in the event that Richard scored his final victory in, and on King Richard's birthday, no less.(Even so, there's a great possibility that he's out of the #6 car at season's end in favor of Ricky Stenhouse, Jr.) 81. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No cj3872, it wasn't his fault, Trevor Bayne was supposed to be lower. Brad even said he thought Trevor was going to run lower in the corner. It's just a product of this racing. And to say otherwise is bullcrap. But everybody blames Brad for everything, so you can go ahead and believe what you wan't to believe. There's a secret rule in the NASCAR community... Have a problem? Blame Brad. 82. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 79. Anonymous posted: 07.03.11 - 10:30 am "for all those whining about how they want old style pack racing daytona back did anyone happen to notice that the cars were in a pack about 90 percent of the time?" No they weren't. 3 wide, 10 rows deep? Need your eyes checked Anon. 83. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper's interesting fact of the race: --Slowest pole speed at Daytona since the 1974 Firecracker 400. You don't have to look this up because I already did. 84. 00andJoe posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The two-car tandem is LOTS better than the old "Throw A Blanket Over 40 Cars (and pray nobody slips)" packs. Are so many people really so short-sighted as to forget how -everybody- screamed that Something Must Be Done about the massive, wreck-inducing packs? Something was. And now of course they scream that we need to go back to the packs...oh well! 85. 00andJoe posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The #87 was sponsored by AM FM Energy/ExtenZe. (Hood and quarter panels, respectively) 86. Red posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't understand why you had to make it clear that Gordon didn't run up front." Um, because he didn't. The other seven guys I referenced all had an average running position of 12th or better. Jeff's average position was 22nd. I know laying back at RP races is a good strategy, but as a fan that doesn't mean I have to like it. I prefer it when the guys who actually run hard all night are rewarded with a good finish. 87. 18fan posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race joined Martinsville, Texas, Richmond, Dover, and Kansas as races with green flag runs of 100+ laps. Only Dover had multiple such runs. Ryan Newman led the most laps in both Daytona races this year yet didn't finish in the top 20 in either of them. 88. Eric posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fastest Cup points race at Daytona since the 2003 Pepsi 400. 89. Dodge posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish FOX had the race. Even though there were fewer commercials but I can't stand that idiot in the booth, Adam Alexander. 90. BON GORDON posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good call post 76, I stand corrected. Sorry Red dont agree with you, Gordon doesnt have to entertain you at all really. He's just trying to survive and make it to the end of the race. 91. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 84. 00andJoe posted: 07.03.11 - 11:26 am "The two-car tandem is LOTS better than the old "Throw A Blanket Over 40 Cars (and pray nobody slips)" packs. Are so many people really so short-sighted as to forget how -everybody- screamed that Something Must Be Done about the massive, wreck-inducing packs? Something was. And now of course they scream that we need to go back to the packs...oh well!" That's your opinion. It doesn't mean your right/wrong. 92. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No Cooper, I don't blame anyone in particular, I just call it the way I see it. And it looked to me that Brad was right in the middle of the track (and actually moved slightly to the left to get to the middle of the track to me, almost as if he wanted to pass Trevor), and there were two cars nose to tail inside of Trevor and Brad, so Trevor ran high to give them room in case they had a problem. But you are right about it being a product of this kind of racing. But I think Brad could have used better judgement in where he placed his car. At least those two don't figure to have any problems in the NNS race at Kentucky, since Brad will be well ahead of him in that event, if they're both running. As for your point about the pole speed being the slowest since the 1974 Firecracker 400, that '74 Firecracker race also had the event record for most lead changes (48) until last night's event and is considered by many to be the greatest Firecracker 400 ever run, to this day. And I still believe that NASCAR shouild allow the teams to either run larger plates for qualifying, or qualify unrestricted, then change to the current plate size for the race. (I believe Jeff Gordon brought this up at Talladega when he smashed the record for the slowest pole speed in the track's history.) Now, Red, for your point about drivers running up front all race long instead of laying back. At Daytona, I believe you have to stay up front because you just can't make any dramatic moves because the track at Daytona is two lanes narrower than Talladega. At Talladega, you can go from anywhere to anywhere at any time because the track there as five to six lanes wide, where the track at Daytona is about three and a half lanes wide. (Remember in last fall's race at Talladega, Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson moved from 24th and 25th to first and second late in the race in just two laps.) And I still predict that Bayne may fail to qualify for the Brickyard, which is supposed to be the team's next event. I don't know why, but I just get that feeling. After all, the Woods have never run well there, never finishing higher than 10th, and that when they were actually competitive. (They finished 10th in each of the first two Brickyard 400s with Morgan Shepherd, who then finished fifth for Butch Mock in 1996.) What a story that would be, the Daytona 500 winner failing to qualify at Indy. Only time will tell. 93. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dodge (#89), I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The FOX broadcast crew continues to be the worst to ever cover the sport with a usually unenergetic play-by-play man (Mike Joy) and two cheerleaders as analysts (Larry McReynolds and Darrell Waltrip). And don't get me started on how they begin each race. I'd rather see TNT/NBC get the races in the first half of the season and ESPN/ABC get the races in the second half, with the two broadcasting partners getting the Daytona 500 (which ABC hasn't covered since 1978) and the Brickyard 400 (as long as it continues to exist, which, regrettably, I don't think will be past next year), and splitting it in rotation. (With ABC/ESPN getting the Daytona 500 and NBC getting the Brickyard 400 one year, and the two partners rotating it like FOX and NBC used to rotate broadcasting the races at Daytona from 2001-'06.) Sure, the other broadcasting networks have their own set of problems (I'd rather see Bob Jenkins work the TNT races instead of Adam Alexander, even though Jenkins is a bit boring himself. After all, he is on the NBC payroll doing IndyCar races for their Vs. cable network. And ABC/ESPN simply have too many people at the events), but they're not nearly as bad as FOX. After all, the FOX crew did the All-Star Race, and they didn't even know what some of the rules were in this year's event. what I think the people doing the races need to do is to watch the way the races were presented in the 1970s and '80s, because I prefer those broadcasts to the ones today. The broadcasters doing those events back then may not have known everything the commentators of today know, but at least they had enthusiasm for what they were calling. 94. PJ1989 posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The two-car tandem is LOTS better than the old "Throw A Blanket Over 40 Cars (and pray nobody slips)" packs. Are so many people really so short-sighted as to forget how -everybody- screamed that Something Must Be Done about the massive, wreck-inducing packs? Something was. And now of course they scream that we need to go back to the packs...oh well!" I think both ways are stupid. The fact these races affect the points race makes me sick. And Talladega is going to directly affect the chase. Ugh. I don't care about the history of these tracks, the racing at them is pointless and shouldn't be on the schedule, if this is what we can expect. Maybe as some kind of all star event, but not as an actual race. 95. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, BON GORDON, what exactly did I write in post #76 that Red didn't agree with, because I don't remember anytihng from that post being referenced. Or was that a typo on your part? 96. Matthew Sullivan posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smart move by Jamie McMurray at the end to use his car as a bulldozer and wreck a bunch of cars in turn four on the last lap. Third race in a row that Junior has been caught up in someone else's mistake. 97. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "for all those whining about how they want old style pack racing daytona back did anyone happen to notice that the cars were in a pack about 90 percent of the time?" "The two-car tandem is LOTS better than the old "Throw A Blanket Over 40 Cars (and pray nobody slips)" packs. Are so many people really so short-sighted as to forget how -everybody- screamed that Something Must Be Done about the massive, wreck-inducing packs? Something was. And now of course they scream that we need to go back to the packs...oh well!" I just read through this entire thread and I don't think I saw one single person advocating they go back to pack racing, or saying the pack racing was somehow superior. Cooper's "That's your opinion. It doesn't mean your right/wrong." message might be the only one, and even so just vaguely. I think both ways of plate racing are a lottery, and I don't care for either one. Just because someone says they hate this tandem crap (like me), doesn't mean they LOVE the old style. That's a logical fallacy. 98. Matthew Sullivan posted: 07.03.2011 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I say take the rear bumper covers off at the plate tracks so the drivers have nothing to bump draft on. 99. BON GORDON posted: 07.03.2011 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Typo on my part. My bad... 100. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "97. Anonymous posted: 07.03.11 - 12:58 pm" He is 100% Correct. 101. Bronco posted: 07.03.2011 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan may have just saved his career and his ride with his win last night. He should be extremely thankful that he was given a chance at redemption, because few drivers, if any get a shot at winning a race/championship that they lost or threw away. This is the first win for UPS since Dale Jarrett's fall 2005 Talladega victory. During that span of time Denny Hamlin and Fedex entered the sport, won ROTY and 17 races, made 5 consecutive chases, and nearly won the championship last year. Geoff Bodine entered his first race since Pocono last June, and he attempted to go the distance in this one. The last time he did that was Michigan in June 2004. Joe Nemechek went the distance for the first time in 2011, he actually ran in the top 10 and top 15 for a bit. The last time he didn't start and park was Talladega last October. Carl Edwards finishes outside the top 10 at Daytona for the first time since the 2009 Daytona 500, he had four straight top 10s in the July race before last night. Kurt Busch had 5 straight top 10s before last night, and he finished 14th with a car that had its driver's side foam ripped off. Hamlin pushed Newman to lead the most laps just like he did in the Daytona 500, but neither one got the kind of finish that they deserved. 102. 00andJoe posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #78 sponsor: should be Furniture Row / Denver Matress (Furniture Row Racing, sponsored by Furniture Row) - same at Pocono and Michigan. 103. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me, this 2x2 racing is a wash with pack racing. I don't really care for either of them. In both styles, all but the last 10 laps were essentially useless. It is/was just "keep from getting wrecked for (insert total scheduled race laps here and subtract 10) laps then try to make a run" while the endings are usually crash fests. But at least it is way better than the single file garbage pile of plate racing we had for a while there, lowlighted by the lifeless '98 Daytona 500 (NASCAR had to be thanking their lucky stars Earnhardt finally won and overshadowed how bad that race was) and absolute coma inducing '00 Daytona 500. Until they find a way to unrestrict the cars, raise their fronts up, and bring back the old slingshot pass, these races are just rolls of the dice. 104. 00andJoe posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First caution: also involved the #1 and #47. Last caution: The #9, 51, 00 and 83 wrecked in turn 3, the remainder, in the trioval - two entirely seperate incidents. 105. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.03.2011 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone hear June's whining about this racing? Or how the idiotic Junior Nation is bashing JJ and Chad for "hanging him out". Memo to those that proudly wear those green #88 Amp Energy shirts: Your guy hasn't won in over 3 years. That is not the 48 team's fault, and it is NOT their responsibility to bring June a win again. He just needs to count himself lucky he is in the same shop as that incredible dynasty, he is only there because of the incredible relationship Rick Hendrick has with June. How any of you can say "JJ was wrong, and June was right" is beyond me. And like JJ said, they weren't winning from 25th anyways. It is time for you morons to stop looking for a scapegoat. 106. Red posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sorry Red dont agree with you, Gordon doesnt have to entertain you at all really." It seems like you take it personally when someone makes even a moderately negative comment about Jeff. He's a legend, and one of the best plate racers of all-time, so you don't have to keep defending him. I never said Gordon has to "entertain me." I'm just saying I have more respect for a driver who runs hard all night than a guy who lays back and plays it safe. I absolutely hated it when Dale Jarrett won Talladega in 2005 after riding around for 170 laps. However, I mostly blame this practice of laying back on NASCAR, because they give zero incentive to run hard in the early and middle portions of the race. I think they should award bonus points to the top 10 cars at 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 distance. Give these guys a reason to take risks. 107. Anonymous85 posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr is completely Useless He has done Nothing since 2004 108. Red posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Memo to those that proudly wear those green #88 Amp Energy shirts: Your guy hasn't won in over 3 years." This just occurred to me, but Junior has become the mirror image of a former Hendrick driver: Terry Labonte. Terry was ultra-conservative, avoiding DNF's and collecting top 10's, but he rarely won and didn't lead many laps. Junior has been racing exactly the same way, so it's no wonder he hasn't won in 3+ years. The media keeps talking about his resurgance this year, but a lot of that has just been him avoiding bad luck, especially with the new points system. Junior has led a paltry 43 laps this season, good for 19th on the circuit. Not exactly championship material. I'd be surprised if he wins a single race this year. 109. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "However, I mostly blame this practice of laying back on NASCAR, because they give zero incentive to run hard in the early and middle portions of the race. I think they should award bonus points to the top 10 cars at 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 distance. Give these guys a reason to take risks." Agreed. In addition, give them bonus points for the percentage of laps they lead. Maybe 1 point for every 10% of the race they lead. For example, in this race, for every 16 laps you lead, you get a point. 110. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "However, I mostly blame this practice of laying back on NASCAR, because they give zero incentive to run hard in the early and middle portions of the race. I think they should award bonus points to the top 10 cars at 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 distance. Give these guys a reason to take risks." That might be the only way to fix it, by turning these races into essentially several shorter heat races that pay fewer points. Then end it with a slightly longer feature that pays the most points. Otherwise it's just going to be a crapshoot lottery with no skill involved whatsoever, and every driver's destiny controlled by someone else. It's so dumb. This win might put Ragan in the Chase, wrap your head around that. He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the Chase, and one random, circumstantial victory at a plate track shouldn't be the deciding factor between Ragan and someone like Tony Stewart who could end up 11th in points, barely out of the top 10, but without a win, and actually has enough to talent to get hot at the end of the season and legitimately challenge for a title. If Ragan makes it into the chase, he will finish last. You can put that in writing. 111. Dodge posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dodge (#89), I wouldn't wish that on anyone. The FOX broadcast crew continues to be the worst to ever cover the sport with a usually unenergetic play-by-play man (Mike Joy) and two cheerleaders as analysts (Larry McReynolds and Darrell Waltrip). And don't get me started on how they begin each race. I'd rather see TNT/NBC get the races in the first half of the season and ESPN/ABC get the races in the second half, with the two broadcasting partners getting the Daytona 500 (which ABC hasn't covered since 1978) and the Brickyard 400 (as long as it continues to exist, which, regrettably, I don't think will be past next year), and splitting it in rotation. (With ABC/ESPN getting the Daytona 500 and NBC getting the Brickyard 400 one year, and the two partners rotating it like FOX and NBC used to rotate broadcasting the races at Daytona from 2001-'06.) Sure, the other broadcasting networks have their own set of problems (I'd rather see Bob Jenkins work the TNT races instead of Adam Alexander, even though Jenkins is a bit boring himself. After all, he is on the NBC payroll doing IndyCar races for their Vs. cable network. And ABC/ESPN simply have too many people at the events), but they're not nearly as bad as FOX. After all, the FOX crew did the All-Star Race, and they didn't even know what some of the rules were in this year's event. what I think the people doing the races need to do is to watch the way the races were presented in the 1970s and '80s, because I prefer those broadcasts to the ones today. The broadcasters doing those events back then may not have known everything the commentators of today know, but at least they had enthusiasm for what they were calling. This is where we disagree with each other. IMO, Fox has the best coverage. ESPN has the worst. TNT has a ridiculously long 1 hour prerace show. I already said how much I can't stand Adam Alexander, but Marty Reid is even worse. I know people make mistakes but Marty Reid is constantly getting confused. The only way I think ESPN can change the atmosphere is by changing a couple of the announcers. Get rid of Reid and Dale Jarrett, and promote Allen Bestwick and put Ricky Craven as the driver analyst. Petree doesn't bug me much. If not Bestwick, then I say put Dr. Jerry Punch up there again. 112. Dodge posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed. In addition, give them bonus points for the percentage of laps they lead. Maybe 1 point for every 10% of the race they lead. For example, in this race, for every 16 laps you lead, you get a point. That is a good idea. I know it would change up the points in a big way but I wouldn't mind NASCAR say you get a bonus point for each lap you lead. Then it would always be more exciting even on the non restrictor plate tracks. 113. BON GORDON posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh I take it very personally son. 114. Red posted: 07.03.2011 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In addition, give them bonus points for the percentage of laps they lead." I would love it if NASCAR implimented something like that. However, I'd make it a non-linear bonus system, to account for the diminishing returns of each lap led in a race. In other words, the difference between 0% and 10% laps led is much more significant than the difference between 70% and 80% laps led, even though the numerical difference is the same. For my own purposes, I use the square root of % of laps led, which adjusts for the diminishing returns issue: 1% led = 1 point 4% led = 2 points 9% led = 3 points 16% led = 4 points 25% led = 5 points ... 100% led = 10 points Using this system, here are the bonus points leaders for the plate races this year (green flag laps only): Newman 9.8 Bowyer 9.8 Kurt 9.0 Truex 7.6 Harvick 6.3 Smith 5.7 Junior 5.4 Kenseth 5.3 Kyle 5.1 Burton 5.0 115. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.03.2011 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @55 and 56 THANK YOU! I'm glad that I'm not alone in this. This will unfortunately secure his ride in Roush when he really doesn't even deserve it. And yeah, thats one of the reasons why I hate the two car tandem. If you're pushing, you're not gonna win. HELLO! THIS IS RACING! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO TRY AND WIN THE RACE HERE! Not pussyfoot around with someone. 116. Schroeder51 posted: 07.03.2011 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just knew in the last 5 laps there would be a yellow flag since they were starting to tightly bunch up together. And I just KNEW on the restart there would be an accident. Wasn't expecting the big one, though. 117. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.03.2011 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anyone hear June's whining about this racing? Or how the idiotic Junior Nation is bashing JJ and Chad for "hanging him out". Memo to those that proudly wear those green #88 Amp Energy shirts: Your guy hasn't won in over 3 years. That is not the 48 team's fault, and it is NOT their responsibility to bring June a win again. He just needs to count himself lucky he is in the same shop as that incredible dynasty, he is only there because of the incredible relationship Rick Hendrick has with June. How any of you can say "JJ was wrong, and June was right" is beyond me. And like JJ said, they weren't winning from 25th anyways. It is time for you morons to stop looking for a scapegoat." Who said that? I know I didn't. I could care less if the most overrated driver let June Bug out to dry. Way to lump us all in one group. Now quit crying whenever your golden boy has something said against him. 118. Green Banana posted: 07.03.2011 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least now people can't say Ron Bouchard is better than David Ragan because he had more wins than David. 119. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For those advocating bonus points for drivers in the top 10 at the quarter, halfway, and three-quarter mark, that idea is totally absurd. For starters, you could get a situation where the guy that finishes 30th actually gets more points that the guy that wins, just because he runs too hard to gets those points and blows the car up prior to finishing the race. Emphasis must be put on finishing the race.(Remember that the points structure that began being used in 1975 was put in place, in part because Richard Petty, who finished 35th in the 1974 Southern 500 after crashing early, actually got more points than Darrell Waltrip did for finishing second.) Then you could get into a situation where you have something like what happened in the 1973 Indianapolis 500, where only ten cars were running at the finish of a race that only ran two-thirds distance if you go with a points structure like that, because you will likely see many more of the top drivers crash in every race. No, what they have now is better than that. (Just imagine if a guy that runs 15th-20th all day wins because everyone else either breaks or crashes trying to get those extra points. Has anyone forgotten what happened in the 1998 Brickyard 400 when Dale Jarrett, who was eligible for a $1,000,000 bonus if he won was run out of fuel by his crew chief, becaues they wanted to get a measly $10,000 bonus for leading at the halfway point. And he had, by far, the fastest car in that race.) Also, I see that some people here have criticized Joey Logano for his part for initiating that big wreck on the first GWC restart. But it was not his fault. what happened was that Mark Martin drove down on Logano, effectively spinning himself out and starting that big wreck. It was for that reason that I said that Jeff Gordon had no chance of a good finish if he stayed with Martin, because I knew that Martin would make the one mistake near the end of the race that would be costly. That's been his track record his whole career at Daytona. Moments earlier, Martin spun him out as part of a chain reaction that started when Kasey Kahne got pushed up the track. (Clearly not Martin's fault.) That incident also proves the difference between Daytona and Talladega, as that would not have resulted in a wreck at Talladega. It also proves that you just CAN NOT go to the back and ride there and hope to contend for the win at Daytona, because of the lack of room to move. At Talladega, you can because there's ample room, two lanes worth. Dale Jarrett, Jeff Gordon, and Jimmie Johnson earlier this year (among others) have proven that you can at Talladega, but you just can't at Daytona. Conservatism rarely wins at Daytona, and what the Hendrick team did by running in the back was conservatism at it's worst. 120. martin-n-rusty posted: 07.03.2011 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, NBC will never get NASCAR races again, especially after all of the crap they pulled in their last year 121. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.03.2011 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brad Keselowski continues to show he's a moron wrecking ball taking out poor Trevor Bayne. I think Carl or Kyle need to get after this punk again and show him that he needs to be racing with respect and not wrecking the field every week." Yeah, because Brad has caused how many wrecks this year? He overreacted to Turn 11 at Sonoma and spun out Allmendinger, JPM had every bit of what he got coming to him because he'd spun out Kahne earlier and ran Brad into the grass when he passed him. Then there was this race, where I admit he made a bad move. For 17 races, that's pretty clean compared to other drivers. "But at least it is way better than the single file garbage pile of plate racing we had for a while there, lowlighted by the lifeless '98 Daytona 500 (NASCAR had to be thanking their lucky stars Earnhardt finally won and overshadowed how bad that race was) and absolute coma inducing '00 Daytona 500." Don't forget the 2009 AMP Energy 500. That race was an absolute abortion. Instead of changing the rules for the plate races, NASCAR needed to just stick with what worked regardless of how much people complained. Until they decided on "Have at it, boys", they were trying every move to undo their mistake. 122. Spen posted: 07.03.2011 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "At least now people can't say Ron Bouchard is better than David Ragan because he had more wins than David." But we can say he's better because Bouchard finished in the top ten in points once. Ragan never has, and probably never will. More later. 123. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin-n-rusty, in a sense, they already are back in NASCAR, because a lot of people that work on the IndyCar coverage by NBC-owned Versus also work on TNT's NASCAR broadcasts, including Wally Dallenbach and Marty Snider, so while NASCAR may never return to the main NBC network, NBC does still have a hand in the TNT broadcast team. And Dodge, how can you say that the FOX broadcasts are superior to what TNT has when TNT, with the exception of Adam Alexander, who I agree doesn't belong in the booth, actually have analysts that know what they're talking about, aren't cheering for anyone, never botches the call of the start of the race, aren't self-promoters, and actually know what the rules are, things the FOX broadcasting team are guilty of doing on all counts. Also, TNT actually has Larry McReynolds where he belongs on the telecasts, showing people the ins and outs of the car. Having crew chiefs up calling the race in the booth doesn't make sense since they don't know what's happening on the track. It didn't work when ESPN had Gary Nelson in the booth in the late 80s, it didn't when ABC had Ray Evernham in the booth in 2000, and it doesn't today with either McReynolds (FOX) or Andy Petree (ESPN). What FOX should do is what TNN did in 1996, and put Dick Bergrren in the booth, since he knows more of what's going on the track than McReynolds does, and since he doesn't outwardly cheer for anyone. How many times have we heard Darrell Waltrip flat out cheer for Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and not to be outdone, how McReynolds screamed when Trevor Bayne won this year's Daytona 500, seemingly wanting him to win over everyone else he was racing for the win. Not to mention Waltrip and Jeff Hammond's constant back-and-forth about how one always helped the other. That gets old too. Frankly, I wouldn't be upset if Hammond and Chris Myers (who doesn't belong on the FOX NASCAR team either) got canned. Back to the race, doesn't anyone think it was odd that, even after two rounds of green flag pit stops that the field really couldn't stay separated, which shocked me, because I believed that teams like the Wood Brothers (who didn't get to make a pit stop), Phoenix Racing (Landon Cassill), and Germain Racing (Casey Mears), as well as others with suspect pit crews were never left out of contention after slow pit stops. Yes, the leaders could get separation for a few laps, but the balance of the field really couldn't separate as a result of pit stops. 124. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I didn't mention the ESPN team in the last post because they've got too many problems to mention. First they have far too many commentators. Three in the booth, Marty Reid (who I'm not sure belongs, but who would they replace him with?), Dale Jarrett, and Andy Petree (who as I mentioned in my last post, doesn't belong in the booth). Then there are three more commentators in their pit studio, Allen Bestwick (who is where he belongs), Rusty Wallace (who belongs in the booth with Jarrett), and Brad Daugherty (who has no place on a NASCAR telecast). Then there are the pit reporters led by Jerry Punch (who is back where he belongs, because he was an utter failure in the booth, I forgot who the other pit reportes are on the ESPN telecasts) and Tim Brewer in the on-site studio showing viewers what's going on with the car. (I have no problems with Brewer being there, because that's where he belongs, and that's where Petree should be, as well.) Of all the people that are on an ESPN telecast that are not covering the pit action, only three are where they belong, and they are Reid (who I like because of his enthusiasm, even though he sometimes does get lost on the telecasts), Jarrett, and Bestwick, and they even have one who shouldn't be there in the first place in Daugherty. At least they got rid of Brent Musberger, who's one of the truly great sportscasters of all-time, but he doesn't belong on an auto racing telecasts, and that includes the Indianapolis 500, though I realize why that have him there, fulfilling the role that men like Chris Schenkel, Jim McKay, Dave Diles, and Jack Whitaker, among others have filled, and that is as the host. 125. Dodge posted: 07.03.2011 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Dodge, how can you say that the FOX broadcasts are superior to what TNT has when TNT, with the exception of Adam Alexander, who I agree doesn't belong in the booth, actually have analysts that know what they're talking about, aren't cheering for anyone, never botches the call of the start of the race, aren't self-promoters, and actually know what the rules are, things the FOX broadcasting team are guilty of doing on all counts. Also, TNT actually has Larry McReynolds where he belongs on the telecasts, showing people the ins and outs of the car. Having crew chiefs up calling the race in the booth doesn't make sense since they don't know what's happening on the track. It didn't work when ESPN had Gary Nelson in the booth in the late 80s, it didn't when ABC had Ray Evernham in the booth in 2000, and it doesn't today with either McReynolds (FOX) or Andy Petree (ESPN). What FOX should do is what TNN did in 1996, and put Dick Bergrren in the booth, since he knows more of what's going on the track than McReynolds does, and since he doesn't outwardly cheer for anyone. How many times have we heard Darrell Waltrip flat out cheer for Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and not to be outdone, how McReynolds screamed when Trevor Bayne won this year's Daytona 500, seemingly wanting him to win over everyone else he was racing for the win. Not to mention Waltrip and Jeff Hammond's constant back-and-forth about how one always helped the other. That gets old too. Frankly, I wouldn't be upset if Hammond and Chris Myers (who doesn't belong on the FOX NASCAR team either) got canned. Maybe I would rate TNT higher if they did a few things differently. 1) Get rid of Alexander, 2) do only a half hour prerace show, 3) Have the same announcers year in, year out, Fox has had the same broadcast team for the last handful of years. Every year, TNT is swapping out it seems. This year we get Chris Neville. He used to drive but never even attempted a NASCAR race which isn't the end of the world. I, too, wouldn't mind if especially Myers got canned. Biggest tool for a "HOST" since Brent Musberger. 126. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOX has better camera work and television graphics. I have a hard time keeping track with TNT's scoring ticker. Don't know why but the FOX brand also gives off a higher quality experience. That's my opinion. 127. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dodge, this is the fifth consecutive year that TNT has had Dallenbach, Petty, and McReynolds in their current roles. Sure Alexander needs to go, and unlike ESPN, there are those that he can be replaced wih. Either with Mike Joy or Rick Allen from FOX/SPEED or Bob Jenkins from NBC/Versus. Pit reporters are, however, for the most part, interchangeable. For instance, in a period of four years from 1982-'85, ABC had Chris Economacki, Larry Nuber, Jack Arute, Bill Flemming, and Jim Lampley all work the pits in the Indianapolis 500, and from 1981-'85, a five-year span, CBS had Economacki, Nuber, Mike Joy, Brock Yates, and Ned Jarrett all work the pits for the Daytona 500. Sam Posey worked the pits for some of ABC's Indy races in the mid-to-late 1970s. (He interviewed car owner Dan Gurney after Bobby Unser's 1975 monsoon win at Indy in the monsoon, as well as Janet Guthrie after the 1978 race, which is when it was revealed that Guthrie had driven to ninth place with a broken wrist and is when Guthrie said that IndyCar racing, even then, wasn't as demanding as stock car racing.) Heck, even Jerry Gappens, now a track president, worked the pits at Indy for ABC in 1987 and '88. David Hobbs also worked the pits at the Daytona 500 from 1992-'96, and seemed a little out of place. That's why I'm a little more forgiving when it comes to pit reporters, because, like sideline reporters in football and basketball, they have maybe the toughest job of all commentators, and that's interviewing the participants while the event is actually going on, along with, in the case of pit reporters in racing, describing the action from the pits, as well as giving reports from the teams. As for the host position, networks have been trying that for races for many years, and they'll still never come up with anyone nearly as capable as Chris Schenkel, Jim McKay, or even Ken Squier was in that role. Dave Diles and Jack Whitaker, who was the host for ABC's 1991 Indy 500 broadcast, was out of place at an auto race, but adequate because of his vast experience covering major sporting events. (Hie first job at ABC Sports was as a roving reporter for ABC's coverage of the 1982 Indianapolis 500, which included a ride in the pace car just before that ill-fated start.) 128. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, I'm certain they do have better equipment at FOX. Now they need a broadcasting team to match, because they certainly don't have one now, and never have had a good broadcasting team, because most of the members of the broadcasting team want to use the airtime to promote themselves as much or more than the event they're covering. Again, they and all those covering the sport need to look at a race from the 1970s and/or '80s to see what a good racing telecast actually looked and, more importantly, sounded like. 129. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, Spen, I agree that Ragan is nowhere near as good as Ron Bouchard was. After all, Bouchard was competitve on all kinds of tracks, even though he won only the one time at Talladega. And he didn't exactly do so with front-line equipment, and the same could have been said about Joe Millikan, who raced from 1979-'82. Millikan never won, but could have if given the right team and equipment. Millikan, the last I heard, was recently on Roush's payroll, and still might be. I think that, even with the Daytona win, that there's a good chance that Ragan will be replaced by Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. in 2012. But Ragan's win will open the doors for opportunities that he may not have had on the morning of July 2. Among other things, he's now eligible for Sprint All-Star Race XXVIII, assuming he gets a ride. And seats for other teams may now potentially open up for 2012, if he is released from Roush's team this year. (Heck, even the Wood Brothers' #21 car might open up if Trevor Bayne gets released from Roush because he can't find sponsorship, or his contract runs out without him getting an extension or new contract, since his contract runs out at year's end.) 130. 00andJoe posted: 07.03.2011 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "TNT has a ridiculously long 1 hour prerace show." There's a very simple solution to that: don't watch it, just tune in at the start of the -actual- race broadcast. 131. Bronco posted: 07.03.2011 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yeah, because Brad has caused how many wrecks this year?" Since you asked, he ran over Paul Menard at Martinsville and spun Casey Mears at Richmond. Speaking of Brad, the one good thing about Ragan's win is that it puts another driver between Brad making the chase based on a "wild card" spot. No matter what your opinion of Brad is, there is no argument that a driver with an average finish of 20th shouldn't be allowed to compete for a championship based on one win, whether it was a dominant win or a lucky win. The same can be said for Regan Smith. For the record, I don't think Ragan will make the chase either based on a wild card since Stewart, Biffle or Montoya will likely win at least once during the summer and will take the second wild card spot. The real question after Ragan's win isn't whether or not he makes the chase or if he returns to the #6 for next year - it's if UPS stays with the #6 or moves over to the #17. Speaking of the #17, after watching the finish of the race on YouTube, I cannot believe that he never even TRIED making a pass for the win. Wouldn't be surprised if that was to please UPS and secure their sponsorship for him next year. The 10 extra laps of OT that this race had were the most of any Cup race at Daytona. It's a shame that so many good cars were wiped out at the end and that the finish was so jumbled up. 132. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth has a history of being content with collecting Top 5's and Top 10's. Matt was probably thinking that if he pulled out, he might get wrecked and end up losing a solid finish. (I.E. Kyle Busch '09). 133. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) About TNT - They're not bad. Adam Alexander needs to go and Kyle Petty can be a bit annoying, but overall, the commentary is quite good IMO. But Kyle Petty sometimes needs to think before opening his mouth: "See right there, he drugged his brake" lol 134. NicoRosberg posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great nicknames for drivers: Brad Krasholotski, Kryle Busch, and the last and greatest... DURT BUSCH. I would honestly like to see NASCAR go to a cable exclusive schedule with FOX, NBC, ABC, and CBS for nine races each a year with them sharing the Gatorades, the Bud Shootout, the All-star, and Dayton 500 qualifying, with SPEED getting the rest of the qualifying. 135. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The big problem with every sports television package is ESPN has their hands in everything. They're filthy rich and can do whatever they want. They could get every NASCAR race if they wanted to because they could outbid everyone. They are the Walmart of television. And unfortunately it has relegated channels like CBS to only focus on one manin sport because they don't have the funds to maintain with ESPN and bid for more. ESPN has their hands in Canadian television with TSN/TSN2 which shows every sport as well. This took some quality sports programming off other channels that did a much better job. The only way NASCAR can go back to NBC and/or CBS is if they sacrifice money for quality....Yeah not going to happen. 136. Electric Flash Yo posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano is an idiot. He took out Martin and Vickers in the first GWC triggering the Big One. Logano has had ample time to prove himself. He needs to be fired. 137. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @119, I'm not saying give the leaders at those marks in the race so many points they can finish with more points than the 2nd place finisher even if the 1/4 or 1/2 leader crashes out shortly after. But just give them some incentive to run hard for the lead at some point other than the end. "Don't forget the 2009 AMP Energy 500. That race was an absolute abortion. Instead of changing the rules for the plate races, NASCAR needed to just stick with what worked regardless of how much people complained. Until they decided on "Have at it, boys", they were trying every move to undo their mistake." That race was bad, but the reason behind it was oddly fascinating. It was basically a sit down strike by the drivers against NASCAR and the way they kept trying to micromanage everything. And, like you said, the result was a major shift in the way NASCAR runs things. "Who said that? I know I didn't. I could care less if the most overrated driver let June Bug out to dry. Way to lump us all in one group. Now quit crying whenever your golden boy has something said against him." I didn't mean to lump all of June's fans together, but there has been a sizeable number of people that are really mad at JJ for not "returning the favor" from Dega. That is plain ridiculous. That shows that they expect the 48 team to shoulder the responsibility to returning June to relevence. The amount of scapegoats they keep finding for June's uninspired performances is amazing. I'll say this about the typical Junior Nation member: if they were fans of NASCAR back in Big E's heyday they would have HATED him. Despised him and his tenacity and desire. If June wasn't his son and he had to race against him, just some slacker out there taking up space, Big E would use him up and gladly. If Junior Nation told him he needed to "return the favor" after Dega, he'd tell them all to kiss his ass and do what HE needed for HIM to win. And are you really calling JJ overrated? By any calculation: wins, laps led, and especially championships, JJ has been the best driver by far for the last 10 years, the last 5 years, and the last 3 years. As far as the networks, all 3 have major problems. FOX has ole DW, Chris Meyers, and the cadaver of Mike Joy. TNT has Adam Alexander, horrible production, and Adam Alexander (oh wait, did I mention him twice? Let me explain my feelings towards him like Kyle Petty would: I don't care, let's be honest, the sheer amount to which AA annoys us, when you look at it as a whole, that is amazing, I'll say that). And ESPN has about 50 things that annoy the shit out of me. I don't even know where to start. I think Andy Petree does a good job. That is about the only positive thing I can pull from ESPN, unless you count Alan Bestwick, but he is so damn underused, that is frustrating. Put him in the booth in place of Marty "You Are Witnessing History" Reid. 138. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.03.2011 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "See right there, he drugged his brake" HA! Let's be honest, I'll say this, I like Kyle, but I wonder if he listens to himself sometimes. I don't care, that is amazing. 139. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.2011 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although let me say, the piece that Kyle Petty and Wally Dallenbach did was perhaps once of the most informative and interesting "tech talk" style things I've ever seen in a NASCAR broadcast. Which brings me to another point - Larry McReynolds. Am I the only one who feels slightly insulted every time he "goes in depth" to describe things like oversteer, brake bias and the workings of a carb? I mean, all the cutaway car segments seem like they're done with the average age of the target audience being 11 - and they're the exact same topics over and over! 140. Matthew Sullivan posted: 07.03.2011 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anyone hear June's whining about this racing?" Regardless of whether Junior finished good or not, I agree completely with what he's saying. At least in the old pack racing a driver had his destiny in his hands. Now, everyone has to rely on someone else to go anywhere. I'm sure he's very frustrated having been wrecked for the third race in a row by someone else. It's probably even more frustrating when dumbass reporters come up to you and ask you the a question you've already given the answer to numerous times. "Or how the idiotic Junior Nation is bashing JJ and Chad for "hanging him out". Memo to those that proudly wear those green #88 Amp Energy shirts: Your guy hasn't won in over 3 years." Every driver has a group of "bad" fans. I remember Earnhardt fans (and fans of other drivers) going after Gordon in the late 90s by calling him gay. As an Earnhardt fan, those people didn't represent myself or my opinion and the same goes for those Junior fans who go overboard everytime something negative goes against him. The problem is that with Junior being as popular as he is, he has a lot of these fools who give the rest of us who are his fans a bad name. 141. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, with the difference between first place and 10th place points now being 13 (not counting the bonus point for leading the most laps, 14 if the winner leads the most laps), it's very easy to have a situation where a driver that wins the race not get the most points in a race under a system like that. Let's say you award the top 5 at the three intervals points 5-4-3-2-1. Well if a driver leads at the each of the first three quater marks, that would be 15 extra points, but if he winds up 10th and leads the most laps, he would get 51 points total for that race (34 for finishing 10th, 1 for leading the race, 1 for leading the most laps, along with the 15 extra points for leading at each of the three quarter poles). Let's then say that the eventual winner, as has happened a number of times this year, isn't even in the top 5 an any of those precise points and wins the race, the most points he could get is 47. That means that the tenth place finisher would get four MORE points than the winner. Never mind what the second or third place finisher would get compared to the winner under the same set of circumstances. Say a driver finishes second under that scenario, he could get, if he leads at each of the three quarter poles and leads the most laps, he would get a possible 59 points for second place (42 for second, 1 for leading the race, and 1 for leading the most laps with the extra 15 points for leading at each of the three quarter poles), with the winner, if he isn't in the top 5 at any of the three quarter poles, would still get only 47 points. That's a 12-point (or close to 20%) difference against the driver that wins, or the difference between finishing second and 14th under the point system used today. To me, that's pure lunacy. If you want to award an extra championship point for winning the pole, that I can understand, because the winner would still get more points than anyone else, but awarding points to the leaders at each of the quarter poles, that would be a gimmick far worse than the Chase, and I thought the Chase was ridiculous when it started, and my opinion of it has never changed, because you're not awarding the best over the entire season on all kinds of tracks in every race that pays points. But this idea, for the reasons I mentioned, would again, be pure lunacy. Also, I don't mind the grammar errors on broadcasts, because those are going to happen, especially on live television, so as long as there aren't too many of them, I can tolerate that. As for the long pre-race shows, TNT has so many features that they have to have a one hour long pre-race show, and because they only carry six races, they need to get as big a bang for their buck as they can get, so don't have a problem with that. (Their series on NASCAR legends and other racing legends with NASCAR connections is especially great to see, because that means that at least one of the television partners actually cares about the history of the sport, because FOX and ESPN/ABC certainly don't.) 142. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #139, I think McReynolds may be trying to teach those new to the sport about what's going on with the car. At least TNT has McReynolds where he belongs on the broadcast, instead of the booth, where he clearly doesn't belong or fit in. 143. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #142, I agree with everything you've said, but I would think that the vast majority of people who take an interest in NASCAR - or any form of motorsport - would already have at least a slight interest in cars in general. I mean, do broadcasters covering athletics do features on the way a sprinter breathes during a run, just in case there was someone watching who had never had more than one foot off the ground at a time? Or on the flip side, why can't they do a segment for those that already have an automotive interest or knowledge and go truly in depth regarding the setup of the car or other points, not just "loose means you turn too much and tight means you can't turn enough - that's why being a crew chief is a tough job". Although despite all these thoughts of mine, there was at least one or two posters on the Darlington page who showed that they aren't aware of the way a manual transmission works, so I could be wrong on this one.... 144. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 143. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.11 - 10:39 pm "Although despite all these thoughts of mine, there was at least one or two posters on the Darlington page who showed that they aren't aware of the way a manual transmission works, so I could be wrong on this one...." Hilarious. I need to read that race page. 145. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No matter what your opinion of Brad is, there is no argument that a driver with an average finish of 20th shouldn't be allowed to compete for a championship based on one win, whether it was a dominant win or a lucky win. The same can be said for Regan Smith." I 100% agree with this. I like both drivers, but they haven't run good enough to be a cha$er this year. I think Brad can be one in the future if he keeps up the momentum he had in the races at Darlington, Dover, Charlotte, Kansas and Sonoma. I know Brad and Regan have both won, but they have a combined 6 top 10 finishes between them this year. Hey, I rag on David Ragan for not deserving a cha$e spot as a racer and Brad hasn't done much better this year so I might as well admit it for him too. 146. Anonymous posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How dare someone take away Jr's win on his 10th anniversary. Nascar keeps scripting stuff and he just can't get close enough to the front to make it happen. But he will get a t shirt selling extension, I meant a contract extension from Rick, so all is good. 147. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.2011 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hilarious. I need to read that race page. " It was regarding the Harvick/Busch pit road business. I recall one guy saying that Harvick should have put his car in park before getting out, and another saying he should have put it in reverse. I've yet to find park on any of the manual cars I've owned and I've haven't figured out a way to put it in reverse and get out of the car without it stalling/kangaroo hopping down the street! 148. Cooper posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LOL. I just re-read the comments. Can't believe I missed those. Very true. "Harvick should have left his car in gear , the Kyle wouldn't have made an easy getaway." "Harvick should have put that car in reverse, or was the motor running?" "PUT THE CAR IN PARK. If he put his car into Park, the car would NEVER of been able to be "pushed" out of the way." Some of these are Pure Gold. 149. potatosalad48 posted: 07.03.2011 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If ESPN had the line-up of Ricky Craven, Allen Bestwick and Randy Lajoie in the booth, they wouldn't annoy me as much. Instead, they have Marty "Witnessing History" Reid, Andy Petree and Dale Jarrett. Reid I won't discuss, but both Petree and Jarrett's accents annoy me. As for TNT, they should replace Adam Alexander with Rick Allen but keep Wally and Kyle, who are competent most of the time. On FOX, Larry Mac shouldn't be in the booth, especially not with Darrell. The two of them off-set the normality Mike Joy brings. If FOX brought in someone like Dick Bergeren, that would cancel out Darrell's excitable nature. But that's just my take. 150. Matthew Sullivan posted: 07.04.2011 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fox: Mike Joy, Buddy Baker, Dick Berggren TNT: Eli Gold, Wally Dallenbach, Kyle Petty ESPN: Alan Bestwick, Dale Jarrett, Andy Petree 151. Red posted: 07.04.2011 - 12:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can someone tell me why every single thread involves an argument about Brad Keselowski? For a guy who's 22nd in points, he sure gets a lot of attention! On this site, I think Brad K might be the most heavily discussed driver in all of NASCAR. cjs3872, I agree with you that under the current 43-1 points system, awarding bonus points at certain intervals during the race would not be practical. When I originally suggested the idea, I was thinking that the entire points system would be overhauled in the process, allowing for much bigger gaps between the top finishers. 152. Red posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell, this may sound crazy, but I wouldn't mind seeing cars getting eliminated at certain intervals, in order to keep the race competitive throughout (only for plate races, though). 50% distance: Cut to top 30 75% distance: Cut to top 25 90% distance: Cut to top 20 95% distance: Cut to top 15 Since every plate race ends in a GWC anyway, this would give us an 8-10 lap shootout with the top 15 cars. Moreover, nobody would be able to ride at the back all race, because they'd have to stay above the cut line. And it would keep wrecked cars in the garage, instead of on the track shedding debris. Normally I wouldn't suggest anything this gimmicky, but plate racing is already a joke, so why not make all the laps worth running hard for? 153. JimBeam posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "On this site, I think Brad K might be the most heavily discussed driver in all of NASCAR." You're kidding, right? Have you never heard of Kyle Busch? 154. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) So we're talking about changes that could be made to plate racing. Honestly? I have no idea what can be done. I think this race showed that hanging out in the back doesn't assure you of a trouble free run to a good finish, but besides that, what can we really do for the racing itself? Some people would say lose the plates, but I think most of us can agree that safety fears mean this will likely never happen. I don't like "gimmick" idea such an elimination style race (sorry Red) and paying points at different intervals doesn't seem right to me either, but I'm completely stumped as to what I could offer up as an alternative to the current sitatuion. One thought that as crossed my mind though, is that Daytona and Talladega are the only two places in the entire world of motorsport that this type of racing occurs, so NASCAR doesn't have anyone elses experiences to learn from. But what if we were able to perform an experiment and run a test with different types of cars at a plate track, just to see the way that they would perform? Would a pack of Grand-Am GT cars be safer around Daytona? The V8 Supercars are coming to America, would they be more exciting around Talladega? Because we don't know the way a different car will act, NASCAR is only able to make small adjustments to their car, simply from fear of the unknown. Who knows? 155. JG24FanForever posted: 07.04.2011 - 2:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Before this race Gordan had never achieved a 6th place finish, now a 2nd remains the only Top 10 position he's never taken. 156. martin-n-rusty posted: 07.04.2011 - 2:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, awarding points at intervals would be practical, IF they do it where you have to complete a certain number of laps to earn points. 157. 18fan posted: 07.04.2011 - 2:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How boring was Adam Alexander's call of the finish? Holy crap. But he's still better than Bill Weber, which shows how bad Weber was. It's a shame that Kyle and Wally, by far the best analysts on any network, have to work with Adam. I think Adam and Ralph Shaheen should switch spots because Alexander is a decent pit reporter. 158. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.04.2011 - 7:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Revamp the points to give 1000 points for the win and give 50 bonus points for leading at 25%, 50%, and 75%, and then give 1 bonus point for every lap lead (but you only get the interval and the lap led bonus if you finish) so as to encourage the drivers to race harder for the lead and not settle into the groove, but also drive cleanly to try to finish and capitalize on the bonus points. Also give 44 points for pole going down in intervals of 1 point and then give 1 point for just running an official timed lap. No points for rain-outs or if you have to get in on owner points. No points for DNF's ever even if you DNF in 2nd place (see David Pearson the 76 Daytona 500). Any takers? 159. Ablindhog posted: 07.04.2011 - 8:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was there a caution on the last lap of the Coke 400? They raced to the finish and I didn't see the 6th. caution ever displayed. Was the field frozen on the last lap and no passing possible? 160. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.04.2011 - 8:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ablindhog: Yes. They did throw the yellow. See the article on www.NASCAR.com 161. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2011 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I think you mean Richard Petty at the end of the 1976 Daytona 500, because he, technically didn't finish the race, though he finished in second place behind David Pearson. Or Neil Bonnett, who was third in the 1980 Daytona 500, but technically wasn't running at the finish (He lost his engine at the start of the final lap, which was run under caution and was pushed to the pits by Don Whittington, who was driving Roger Hamby's #17 car.) And 18fan, that's why they need to reincarnate Jim McKay, Keith Jackson, or Ken Squier. (Jackson and Squier are still alive, but old.) Simply, none of those that are the lead broadcasters on NASCAR Cup races in the last decade, with the exception of Marty Reid, are enthusiastic. Also, the fact that Allen Bestwick was replaced in the booth in 2004 by Bill Weber for the NBC/TNT races says that he wouldn't be that good as a lead broadcaster, Rick Allen has that enthusiasm, but isn't experienced enough yet, nor has the overall name recognition, Eli Gold was not much more than adequate on television, as he seemed to be better suited for radio. As for Dick Berggren, he may not be enthusiastic, but he is often more informative than McReynolds and Waltrip are put together. Buddy Baker was a very good analyst that was also a good story teller on the broadcasts, which gave newer viewers some background on the sport's history (such as mentioning about, when Michael Waltrip was winning the 1996 All-Star Race in the #21 car, that it wouldn't have been the first time that car had won at Charlotte), but he, like Jackson and Squier, is probably a bit too old now. Heck, I think Bobby Unser would be better than some of those broadcasting stock car and IndyCar races now, since he did both for ABC, but he is also too old (Trevor Bayne's Daytona 500 win came on Bobby's 77th birthday), though, like Waltrip, he seemed to take over the broadcasts (especially IndyCar broadcasts, he never seemed to on the few NASCAR races he worked), though he, to my memory, was never a self-promoter, nor did he outwardly root for other drivers. (He did pay more attention to his own family members, Al, Sr. and Jr., which is understandable, but never actually rooted for either on the air to my knowledge. If I'm wrong, please correct me.) He could also have provided insight, through his own experiences about caution flag infractions, of the wacky finish to the Nationwide race at Road America (he passed cars under the caution in both his 1975 and '81 Indy victories, though in '75, he let Foyt go right back around him, putting the two virtually side-by-side for that chaotic finish). You could even throw Sam Posey into the mix, but he suffers from Parkinson's these days. (It was Posey that first mentioned the possibility of oil on the track affecting the finish of the 1980 Southern 500.) I would even prefer Jim Lampley over some of the guys doing the races today. (He did call the 1980 Southern 500 and the 1984 Firecracker 400 and was the lead broadcaster on each of ABC's first two live Indianapolis 500 telecasts in 1986 and '87.) 162. 18fan posted: 07.04.2011 - 11:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem with Marty Reid is that he is just horrible. He screws up all the time, so although he has enthusiasm overall he is terrible. I used to like Mike Joy, but the last couple years his quality has gone seriously downhill. 163. Red posted: 07.04.2011 - 11:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You're kidding, right? Have you never heard of Kyle Busch?" Kyle: 297 comments Brad: 547 comments 164. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.04.2011 - 11:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How could I forget that when I have memorized the list of Daytona 500 winners? 165. 00andJoe posted: 07.04.2011 - 11:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #136 - If you watched the replay, you'd see that Mark -came down- on Logano. The 20 had nowhere to go. Of course, that would get in the way of your desired point... DSFF - It's a shame about Mike Joy. He used to be great back in the 90s, in his days on TNN. I can't help but wonder if the reason he's so flat now is that he's given up trying what with the two clowns he's forced to share the booth with? AA aside, TNT, as I said before, kicks both Fox and ESPN into next week with their coverage. I think the #1 problem with ESPN isn't so much their broadcasters (bad as they are), but simply their overall attitude: they've gotten to where the "E" is more important to them than the "S" when it comes to their "PN", and everything else stems from that. #139 - Nothing new there. Every network does the whole "explain wedge/camber/the thingamajiggle from scratch" every single race, and they have for years (heck, they even did it back in Ye Olde Days, but not as bad). Almost makes you wonder if they expect nobody to be a repeat viewer... #149 - Ah. Because they're Southern accents. I see. Ah well. As the vampire said: stakers gonna stake! 166. Red posted: 07.04.2011 - 12:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something I've been curious about... Does anybody know why the COT plate car has a totally different exhaust note than the old plate car? The old car had a high pitched scream, almost like an Indy car, while the COT sounds much deeper. As far as I know, both cars used the same engine, and the size of the plates haven't changed much. Is the routing of the exhaust system completely different? Are they running a radically different gear ratio? FWIW, I liked the old high pitched sound better. Made the cars sound faster, made the racing seem more intense, in my opinion. 167. NASCAR 24/7 posted: 07.04.2011 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Comgrats to David... he needed this win. BTW, why does everyone spell "sponsor" wrong? lol 168. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What happened, Red, was that Morgan-McClure Motorsports engine builder Runt Pittman used 180 degree headers beginning in 1995, and they had, by far, the fastest car in the restrictor plate tracks. Copycats as they are, the rest of the teams did the same thing, resulting in all the cars at the restrictor plate tracks sounding like IndyCars by 1997 or '98. But in mid-2004, Hendrick Motorsports began toying with the idea of going with conventional headers, and suddenly they gained an advantage with engines that sounded like actual NASCAR engines. So by 2007-'08, eveyone's engines sounded like they had pre-1995. Also, NicoRosbergFan, how could anyone that knows the winner of every Daytona 500 possibly forget who won the 1976 race, because of the way that race finished. Forgetting that Richard Petty won the race in 1979 is understandable, because his role, as well as those of Darrell Waltrip and A.J. Foyt, the second and third place finishers is forgotten because of what happened in the third turn while Petty was actually celebrating in victory lane. (Petty has said that one of his greatest memories of that race was him seeing Darrell Waltrip so joyed with his second place finish on the cool-down lap.) 169. CarlEdwards99 posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "FOX has better camera work" got to disagree with this. FOX ultra tight shots provides no context of the margin of distance between the cars and they spend half the race providing useless in car shots. And I don't know how many times watching a FOX race they will have a great side by side battle on screen and for whatever reason the director cuts away from the battle to show a car out running by himself. 170. Cooper posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 167. NASCAR 24/7 posted: 07.04.11 - 12:47 pm I used the find function and no one misspelled sponsor. 171. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The problem with Marty Reid is that he is just horrible." Quoted for the truth. "I used to like Mike Joy, but the last couple years his quality has gone seriously downhill." I agree with you and 00Joe about Mike. He seems way more interested in announcing those car auctions. Have any of you caught him at the Barrett Jackson telecasts? He is really alive and truly interested when he does those. It seems like the thrill of NASCAR is gone for him. Like he is doing it because that is where the biggest money in motorsports broadcasting is. Then again, maybe he is heavily medicated so he can handle doing entire broadcasts with ole DW. 172. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BTW, the reason Brad gets discussed so much is because a lot of us, including me, really like him and people who come here to troll bash him to try to get under our skin. Even though we are not trying to make him out to be anything other than what he is, a guy with 2 wins in the equivalent of 2 seasons in Cup (an excellent '09 when he ran a little less than half the races for part time teams, a dog shit '10 when he went to Penske and never developed any kind of chemistry and was more focused on winning the NWide title that was forgotten about 10 seconds after he won it, and an up and down '11 which is half over). When it comes to Kyle, his fans and haters seem to be in agreement: He is an insanely talented driver that has a tendancy to royally embarrass himself about every 3 or 4 weeks. Not much to agrue about. 173. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.04.2011 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I didn't mean to lump all of June's fans together, but there has been a sizeable number of people that are really mad at JJ for not "returning the favor" from Dega. That is plain ridiculous. That shows that they expect the 48 team to shoulder the responsibility to returning June to relevence. The amount of scapegoats they keep finding for June's uninspired performances is amazing." Meh, thats what you get with Redneck Jesus I guess. It would've been nice if JJ returned the favor, but I wasn't expecting it at all. I will tell you one thing, the one reason he didn't win that night was the same reason the entire Hendrick team didn't, they stayed in the back too long, and payed for it in the end. "And are you really calling JJ overrated? By any calculation: wins, laps led, and especially championships, JJ has been the best driver by far for the last 10 years, the last 5 years, and the last 3 years." Yeah, I am. He's a good driver, no doubt, but I've said this time and time again, I hate that he just rides along for 26 races and then decides to explode in the chase. That's not a true champion. If you are championship caliber, then show it throughout the whole season instead of pussyfooting around for a 2/3 of the way. Maybe I'd respect him then. 174. Cooper posted: 07.04.2011 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 172. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.04.11 - 1:56 pm "If you are championship caliber, then show it throughout the whole season instead of pussyfooting around for a 2/3 of the way. Maybe I'd respect him then." This occurs in every sport though. Even to the point that teams will bench their star players for rest. There's not a lot of athletes out there that I respect but Jimmie is one of them. I didn't respect him a couple of years ago, but Jimmie has earned respect from doing what I thought was impossible (5 STRAIGHT Are you kidding me?). That's what made the 96' Bulls the greatest sports team of all-time in my opinion. 72-10. They competed the whole damn season. MJ didn't take no days off. And if Jimmie and the #48 would try as hard in April as they did in October, Jimmie could have easily won 70 races by now (IMHO). 175. Scott B posted: 07.04.2011 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not a pretty race, but it was interesting in that it could be pivitol not just for David Ragan, but for other drivers potentially changing rides in the offseason. If Ragan had failed to seal the deal after leading late in the race, I'm convinced he'd be released by Roush at the end of the season. Now, with a win, even though it's a restrictor plate win, he still has a chance to stick. If he holds on for a chase wild card, a much better chance. And worse case, if Roush does let him go, he's got a better resume to land a ride elsewhere. It's almost like the Jamie McMurray downsizing saga all over again. Misc. notes & thoughts: #81 (with Scott Riggs) was on the preliminary entry list as a companion car to the #46 (J.J. Yeley), but withdrew. Yeley in turn ended up being one of the two DNQ's for the race. David Gilliland follows up the 12th place finish last week with a 16th this week. He also had a 3rd at the Daytona 500 and a 9th at Talladega. If the whole Cup schedule was plate and road races, he'd be a happy camper. Robby Gordon's #7 team entered and exits the race with a thin lead over the #21 for 35th place in the owner's points, and the last guaranteed start that goes with it. But RGM will be doing quite a bit of start and park, and Bayne and the #21 will be skipping many races entirely the remainder of the season. #71 Lally and #38 Kvapil would be the only others that would seem to have a shot at closing the gap before the end of the season. Aside from the Brickyard, though, no one may be too worried about making the field with the car counts hovering at 44 or 45 most weeks. 176. Talon64 posted: 07.04.2011 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan becomes the 180th driver to win a NASCAR Sprint Cup Series race, and the 7th driver to win for Jack Roush (Mark Martin, Jeff Burton, Matt Kenseth, Kurt Busch, Greg Biffle, Carl Edwards). It's Ragan's first top 10 at Daytona in 5 races. Of his 11 top 5's in 163 starts in Cup, 5 of them have come in 19 plate track starts. His best average finish at any tracks are at Daytona and Talladega, 15.2 and 17.0 respectively. It's Jack Roush's 5th win at Daytona, and first ever 1-2 finish there. Roush had 2 Daytona wins from 1988-2003 but has 3 since 2007. Matt Kenseth's 6th top 5 of the season ties his total from all of 2010. It's his 4th top 2 finish of the season (3rd in the last 7, including 5 top 10's and a 6.7 avg fin in that span), his most since 2007 when he had 5. It's just Kenseth's 4th top 5 in 24 starts at Daytona but he has 5 top 10's in the last 7 races (10.1 avg fin in span, 17.4 career). Joey Logano ties his best finish of the season in 3rd, the first time all season he's had back-to-back top 10's. He has 2 top 5's and 3 top 10's with a 10.7 avg fin in the last 6 races, going from 27th to 20th in points. It's his first top 10 in 6 Daytona starts (22.8 avg fin). Kasey Kahne gets his first top 10 in the last 6 races. It's just his 2nd top 5 in 16 starts at Daytona but both have come in the last 400 mile races (career 6 top 10's, 17.2 avg fin). Kyle Busch ties Carl Edwards for the most top 5's this season with 9; he's never had fewer than 9 top 5's in a full season of Cup, averaging 10.7 per season (11.3 adjusted, 239/36 = 6.64 total seasons in Cup so far). It's his 3rd top 5 in the last 4 races. Kyle finishes in the top 10 in both Daytona races in a season for the first time since 2008 (4th in 500, won the 400), getting his 5th top 5 in 14 total starts. He's led in each of the last 10 races. Jeff Gordon gets his first stand-alone top 10 finish of the season, but his 4th top 10 in the last 5 races to go from 16th to 8th in the standings. It's just his 2nd top 10 in the last 8 races, and 19th in 38 career starts. Since finishing 42nd at Daytona to start the year 36th in points, Kevin Harvick hasn't finished worse than 20th in the last 16 races (1 win, 6 top 5's, 10 top 10's, 8.7 average finish) to take the points lead for a 2nd straight season. It's his 4th top 10 in his last 6 starts at Daytona, and 9th in 21 career starts. Paul Menard is already one off of his career high, set last season, with his 5th top 10 of the season. After only 2 top 10's in his first 114 starts in Cup, he has 11 in his last 50 starts. Menard hasn't finished worse than 19th in the last 5 races, including 1 top 5 and 2 top 10's with a 12.4 average finish, to go from 20th to 16th in the standings. After going 7 straight races without a top 10, JPM has 2 in the last 4 races (but also has finishes of 22nd and 30th). It's his 4th top 10 in the last 5 races, and has a 12.5 avg fin in the last 6 (30.25 avg fin in his first 4 Daytona starts). AJ Allmendinger gets his 2nd top 10 in 7 Daytona starts (21.6 avg fin), his first since finishing 3rd in the 2009 Daytona 500. David Gilliland has 4 top 20 finishes this season, but all have come at the 3 plate tracks and 1 road course race run so far this season (30.4 avg fin in the rest of the races). Mark Martin became the 8th driver to reach 50 career poles in Cup, and the oldest pole sitter in Daytona history at 52 years old. Unofficially, it might've been the biggest age gap between front row starts, with 20 year old Trevor Bayne starting 2nd. Carl Edwards finishes 37th for the 2nd time in the last 4 races (2 top 5's in the other races); his average finish has dropped from 7.8 to 10.8 in that span, and has gone from 1st in points, 40 points ahead, to 2nd and 5 behind. 177. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.04.2011 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "BTW, the reason Brad gets discussed so much is because a lot of us, including me, really like him" Correct. I can think of at least 4-5 users who regularly post on this site who like Brad and openly support him every week. "If you are championship caliber, then show it throughout the whole season instead of pussyfooting around for a 2/3 of the way. Maybe I'd respect him then." They would do that if NASCAR didn't change the points system to where only 10/36 races matter. What a farce of a point system. 178. Talon64 posted: 07.04.2011 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Chase system is like plate racing, only the end matters. Which is why I'm indifferent to the two-by-two racing, it's really no different than the pack racing since the end result is still usually the same. One thing I've never gotten about the Chase is why NASCAR doesn't award bonus points for the Chase for BOTH wins and your finish in the regular season points standings. They did the latter for the first 3 years, then switched to the former for 2007 and beyond. Why not have BOTH? It makes absolutely no sense, guys like Carl Edwards, Kevin Harvick, Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch and Jeff Gordon who've dominated the regular season the last few years get absolutely nothing for it because of it. 179. Anonymous posted: 07.04.2011 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""You're kidding, right? Have you never heard of Kyle Busch?" Kyle: 297 comments Brad: 547 comments " That's just their driver page, and most of those posts are the same 3 or 4 people discussing how he does race to race. Seems to me Kyle Busch gets discussed and argued over after every single race, especially any week he's involved in some sort of controversy, wins, or has a particularly bad day. And when those thing happen EVERYBODY has an opinion about it. No way is Brad Keselowski discussed on this site more than Kyle Busch. For one, he has far more haters than Keselowski, runs up front more often, and is in the public eye about 4 times as often. Also, he runs those Truck and Nationwide races, and wins far more often than Keselowski, bringing about an even greater flood of comments about him on those race pages. Busch must run at least 15 to 20 more races a year than Keselowski because of the truck series, and those pages are chock full of people hating on Busch. Really, there never seems to be a time when people are NOT talking about Kyle Busch for one reason or another. Really, you honestly think Keselowski is discussed more often on this site? How long have you been here? It's not like it's a competition, Keselowski is better off the way he is now, because 75% of the time Busch is being discussed for all the wrong reasons. 180. Talon64 posted: 07.04.2011 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) oh, and David Ragan led a career-high 15 laps in this race, just the 3rd time he's led 10+ laps. In this race alone he increased his career laps led by 20.5%, from 73 to 88. He's now led a career-high 42 laps this season, almost double his total from his first 146 career starts. 181. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.04.2011 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just riding around? First of all they are testing stuff for the final 10. They aren't just riding out there. Secondly, even if you just take their results in the first 26 races, they are still the best. In the last 7 seasons they have 27 regular season wins. 182. Red posted: 07.04.2011 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you are championship caliber, then show it throughout the whole season instead of pussyfooting around for a 2/3 of the way. Maybe I'd respect him then." That kind of statement just makes you sound ignorant. Since the chase began in 2004, Jimmie Johnson has more REGULAR SEASON wins than any other driver has TOTAL wins. Look it up. Even if he's "pussyfooting" as you call it, he's still been better than everyone else. Why is it so hard for people to accept how great JJ and the #48 team really are? I hope he gets more respect after he retires. .... cjs3872, thanks for the helpful explanation! 183. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2011 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're welcome, Red. I always try to explain everything I can with facts, if there are factual basis in the point I'm trying to make, and I often like to use historical reference, because I'm of the opinion of that you can't push forward without looking at history as a guide. 184. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2011 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, you must have learned the term "pussyfootong it" from watching an old ABC race telecast, because Jackie Stewart frequently used that term. (Most famously in describing A.J. Foyt final couple of laps in his 1977 Indy win.) 185. mrittenhouse84 posted: 07.04.2011 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What Happened to Ralph Sheheen on TNT, i thought his call of the 2009 Coke 400 was great, esp at the end with Busch and Stewart 186. kinetic posted: 07.04.2011 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TNT removed him after 2009 for who knows why(They've made stupid decisions in the past, Webber/Bestwick in 2005). I thought he was a much better fit with Petty and Dallenbach. 187. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.04.2011 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What about Bob Jenkins? I thought he was great back in the day. There is a chance he may have lost his enthusiasm like Mike Joy, but he could really call a race and a moment. Five words that, although they still make me want to puke due to the situation behind it, were one of the best calls ever: AND BOTH OF THEM SPIN!!!! I will now go shove some more pins in my Ricky Rudd voodoo doll. 188. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.04.2011 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "oh, and David Ragan led a career-high 15 laps in this race, just the 3rd time he's led 10+ laps." Yikes. 189. dUDE gUY posted: 07.04.2011 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Evwen though Harvick has the most wins and is now leading the points, he has the second least laps led in the top 13 in points. 190. Bronco posted: 07.04.2011 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I didn't mean to lump all of June's fans together, but there has been a sizeable number of people that are really mad at JJ for not "returning the favor" from Dega. That is plain ridiculous. That shows that they expect the 48 team to shoulder the responsibility to returning June to relevence" It was Johnson and his crew chief who themselves declared that they owed Jr a push at the next RP race, so I don't know how you can fault anyone who noticed that they didn't follow through with that. They basically dragged Dale Jr to run in the back with them and didn't push him good enough in the end to make a charge to the front, then Jimmie was brought to pit road after Gordon spun while Dale Jr was left out there without a draft partner. I'd also like to mention just how important that last lap assist at Talladega was, because without Jimmie would be winless halfway into the season, and aside from Talladega he has only ONE other win in the last 12 months. HMS has won the last three RP poles with three different drivers. That streak includes a front row sweep at the Daytona 500, a 1-2-3-4 start at Talladega and all drivers starting in the top 10 in this racer. This is also the fifth straight year where the summer Daytona race has ended with a last lap spin or big one. 191. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.04.2011 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They basically dragged Dale Jr to run in the back with them and didn't push him good enough in the end to make a charge to the front," I don't think it's fair do say that the #48 didn't push well enough to get back to the front, that green flag run meant that anyone hanging out in the back had next to no chance of making back to the front. The whole idea of that strategy is to wait until after the big one before making a charge. If there's no caution, the strategy is for naught. The #48 and #88 weren't the only ones bitten. 192. Anonymous85 posted: 07.04.2011 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At DSFF 1993 Winston 500: They Come through the Trioval Checkered is Waving Ernie Irvan wins and Rusty Spins and gets airborne and flips wildly right at the start finish line very reminiscent of his accident at Daytona. Speaking of which I had this argument with my mother a few days ago in which she claimed that Earnhardt was out to get rusty and that the whole coming over to check on rusty and the emotion he showed in his post race interview was all an act and the whole reason Earnhardt did all those things is so he wouldn't be blamed for causing the crash 193. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2011 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, yes, but that was a rare moment of excitement for Bob Jenkins, but it more out of shock than excitement, because I don't believe either he, or anyone else could believe what happened there. The same is true regarding his call of the finish of the first Brickyard 400 in 1994, but that may have been due to his following of the winner, Jeff Gordon, throughout his coming through the ranks, as well as the almost unbelievable story that developed that day (not unlike this year's Daytona 500). But Jenkins, along with Mike Joy were studio guys that didn't get exciteable that often. And by the way, Earnhardt caused that wreck with Rudd at North Wilesboro in 1989 by practically running him off the track, yet most of his fans were mad, not that the incident happened, but that Geoff Bodine won the race as a result. As anyone knows, Earnhardt hated Bodine with a passion, as did his fans. If Earnhardt had allowed Rudd the inside and raced him to the finish, even if it meant finishing second, he would have won the championship, which would, as we now know, would have given him three consecutive championships (he won the '90 and '91 titles), and a record 8 championships. (A last place finish due to a broken camshaft at Charlotte the week before didn't help him either.) The lesson that Earnhardt learned that day would help him win championships in later years, and that was that winning was nice, but second or third place is better than wrecking. Interstingly, Earnhardt had almost as many second place finishes (70) as he had wins (76). 194. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2011 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, the #48 team wasn't really that good in the Chase last year. They didn't win the championship as much as the #11 and #29 teams lost it. Harvick's and especially Hamlin's teams lost the championhsip, and Jimmie and company were there to pick up the pieces. But if it weren't for the controversial decision to swap pit crews at Texas (which I still think was wrong), the #48 team wouldn't have been in position to take advantage of the #11 team's collapse. It was a case of the #11 team (and to a lesser extent, the #29 team) having the better cars, but losing out to the #48 team's professionalism and experience at the end. 195. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.04.2011 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "oh, and David Ragan led a career-high 15 laps in this race, just the 3rd time he's led 10+ laps. In this race alone he increased his career laps led by 20.5%, from 73 to 88. He's now led a career-high 42 laps this season, almost double his total from his first 146 career starts." I don't mean to pile on here with negative comments on Ragan, but none of those stats are impressive in the slightest. Like I said on his driver page, it's time to either step up or keep up his current momentum. I wish Bob Jenkins were still commentating on NASCAR races. He was great on ESPN from '81-'00, and had amazing chemstry with Ned Jarrett and Benny Parsons. You could tell that they were not only close co-workers, but also very close friends. You could also tell that when those guys were amazed by something, they were truly shocked. 196. Anonymous85 posted: 07.04.2011 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know its a real shame what happened to Benny I wish he was still here with us. 197. JP88 posted: 07.05.2011 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay my input on everything... 1. Happy Ragan won but like others don't feel he deserves a fluke chase birth. 2. Not really a fan of the 2-car tango...just not my cup of tea but it is better than older RP races that sucked like Daytona 2000, etc... 3. I think the the commentators are decent all around...I enjoy listening to FOX, I mean come on how can you not root for certain drivers sometimes...anyone complaining about when Ned Jarrett rooted his son to victory in the 500. TNT is good but I do prefer Ralph Sheheen over AA and just put in Allen Bestwick on ESPN and your set. 4. I like Brad K. and I obviously see why some people don't like him...you can argue all you want about him but it won't change opinions so agree to disagree. 5. And the Chase is the Chase...it seems like it keeps changing every year but the fact is that NASCAR wants a playoff and that's what they feel is best. You can't please everyone so I don't think it's a big deal. Would I like a better system, hell yeah, but I don't think it's that bad. 198. 18fan posted: 07.05.2011 - 1:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In regards to the Ned Jarrett situation, CBS made the decision to have Ned call Dale home. In most races he wasn't as open in rooting for Dale as Darrell does/did for Michael. 199. AJ posted: 07.05.2011 - 8:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @DSFF#187 Bob Jenkins is now calling the Indycar races for Versus, and is still doing a phenomenal job in the booth. 200. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2011 - 9:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd also like to mention just how important that last lap assist at Talladega was, because without Jimmie would be winless halfway into the season, and aside from Talladega he has only ONE other win in the last 12 months." Yeah, he owed June since that Dega win was so crucial to JJ's legacy because.... oh wait, it wasn't. Without that win, he has 53 wins instead of 54, and still has those 5 shiny silver trophies (one good thing I'll say about the cha$e, their trophy is beautiful). The biggest thing is he is tied for the record for closet margain of victory in Cup history with Craven. Even in JJ's "down period" dating back to the week after last year's Loudon win where he has just 2 wins in the last 12 months, he is still better than just about anyone. In that time, he clinched his 5th title, he has 14 Top 5s and over 1000 laps led. And he is currently 3rd in points behind two guys having career years thus far, Carl (in terms of week in week out consistency) and Kevin (in terms of wins). So that Dega win means very little for him when placed against his career. Besides, he is still looked at as a mediocre plate racer at best. "Earnhardt caused that wreck with Rudd at North Wilesboro in 1989 by practically running him off the track" Wrong. Rudd was way down against the pit wall going into Turn 1. He just kept going straight while Dale started turning BECAUSE THERE WAS A TURN THERE! Rudd was in his door before Dale could even get to the point where he would be in position to cut him off. It just looks like Dale cut across him because Rudd was going straight, and Dale was turning for the corner. If there is one legitimate knock on Dale for that deal, it is the fact he and Rudd were on really bad terms at the time. Dale would mess around with Ricky, including the previous year's race at Wilkesboro where Rudd bumped Dale, who promptly dumped him in the next corner. He should have realized that Ricky, as he was in Bernstein's equipment, was no threat to his ultimate goal of piling up championships, and left him alone. He let his bravado get the best of him. A similar situation happened at Martinsville in '05 between Gordon and Kurt Busch, setting off a fued that is still going on. Jeff got under Kurt going into 3 and just went straight while Kurt turned because, you know, there was a turn there. The FOX crew put the blame on Kurt. That isn't a surprise because 1) the FOX crew are major homers for Jeff 2) FOX usually gets things wrong 3) nobody likes Kurt and 4) to the untrained eye it really looks like Kurt cut across him since he is turning and Jeff is going straight. "You know its a real shame what happened to Benny I wish he was still here with us." BP was excellent. He was the perfect cross of down home charm and being very informative. And he could make a call. If any of you get the chance, find his call in the 1989 Pepsi 400 when Mark Martin (in that kick ass Stroh's car) gets spun in the trioval right in the middle of a big pack but doesn't hit anything (like Gordon in this race). I thought he was gonna jump out of the booth. Just amazing (let's be honest, I will say that). "In most races he wasn't as open in rooting for Dale as Darrell does/did for Michael." You are right. He did an excellent job of being unbiased towards DJ. One funny Ned/Dale moment, in the '95 Bristol Night Race (aka The Other Earnhardt Labonte Tangle) they fought rain all night. It was raining at one point well past halfway and the announcers were discussing whether or not to throw the yellow, but they all agreed it wasn't raining hard enough to stop the action. A few laps later, DJ took the lead in the Texaco car, and Ned quipped something like "OK, it's raining pretty hard now, they need to call the thing" and they all had a laugh about it. I thought that was funny. 201. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2011 - 10:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQrIWEElApc THIS IS THE DOGGONEDEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!!!!!! 202. Scott B posted: 07.05.2011 - 10:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joe Nemechek and Travis Kvapil both lead a lap for the first time this season. 25 drivers led at least one lap this race, for the 2011 season so far 44 drivers have now led a lap. 203. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2011 - 11:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you're right about Rudd being practically against the pit wall, but again from what I saw, that's because Earnhardt put him there entering the first turn. Rudd was right beside him and earnhardt just drove him down the track, thinking that Rudd would back off, but Rudd stood his ground, resulting in that crash. And I still say that the fans was just as upset that the incident haded the race to Geoff Bodine, as Earnhardt hated Bodine with a passion, as did his legions of fans. If Rudd had overdriven the corner, that would have been one thing, but Earnhardt simply ran him down into the pit wall and the grassy area just beyond the pit wall. If Earnhardt had not done that, he may still have won the race, or finished no worse than second, and would have won the championship that year, which, as history would later tell us, would have given him three consecutive titles (he won the title in both 1990 and '91) and a record 8 championsihps total. (His last place finish at Charlotte a week earlier due to a broken camshaft didn't help him either.) Earnhardt would use the lessons learned from that loss at North Wilkesboro to his advantage to help him win three more championships in 1991, '93, and '94, when he did drive smarter. The Earnhardt of 1993 and '94 would not have wrecked in that instance. Interstingly, Earnhardt wound up his career with almost as many second place finishes (70) as he had wins (76). (My previous post with this info on it was removed.) 204. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2011 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or at least Rudd anticipated that Earnhardt would have put him there, which is why he may have driven so low. If that is so, then are right and I am wrong about that. If that is so, I apologize for the error. 205. 18fan posted: 07.05.2011 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, That video is one of the reasons I love not only BP, but that whole broadcast team of Bob, Ned, and Benny. There was a reason that they lasted from 1989-2000 together and all the other networks kept changing announcers. CBS in 1998-2000 with Mike Joy(back when he was exciting), Ned, and Buddy Baker was also really good, but my favorite other than ESPN was the 1992-1993 teaming of Buddy Baker and Neil Bonnett as the color guys for CBS and TNN. 206. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2011 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, 18fan, Buddy Baker didn't become a color analyst for CBS until 1996. when Neil Bonnett was chosen to replace David Hobbs (who went to work the pits through 1996) in 1991-'92, he worked alongside Ned Jarrett, but when Bonnett was killed at Daytona in 1994, CBS first used Chris Economaki in the booth for the Daytona 500 that year, then went with Dick Berggren for the other two events that CBS broadcast that year. In 1995, they chose Richard Petty to team up with Jarrett and Ken Squier in the booth. but in 1996, they went with Baker to team up with Jarrett and Squier for two years, until CBS replaced Squier with Mike Joy in 1998. (Squier was moved to the host position for the CBS broadcasts.) 207. Smiff_99 posted: 07.05.2011 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I too, geek out like you. Like, I've literally sat and re-watched and re-watched that 10 seconds of video from the '89 400......the tense battle between Bodine, Earnhradt and Martin finally culminating in that hair-raising moment......the commentary was just plain fun then. Exciting and fun. When ESPN did the yearly Thrills and Spills crash show, they always included bloopers from the ESPN broadcasts. Great stuff. They always seemed like they were having a blast. Now my mind's going crazy just trying to recall some other classic moments in commentary......Ned's call of DJ in '93 STILL (no joke) sends shivers up my spine. Every....single.....time. The power of good commentary is HUGELY understated. 208. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2011 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another excellent call from ESPN's Big 3 (Bob, Ned, and BP) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFikG0qTxY4&feature=related HE'S IN THE WALL, JARRETT IS IN THE WALL!!! That is from the '96 Southern 500 when DJ was running off with the race in which he was eligible for the Winston Million. Bob had just accidentally said they were in Darlington in Southern California and BP was being a smart ass, ragging him for it which is another thing that made them such a great trio. They could poke fun at each other, laugh with each other, but be serious and hearfelt when it was necessary. One of the best examples of that I remember was a race shortly after Davey Allison died, they showed the 28 car with Lake Speed and BP accidentally called him Davey. BP corrected himself and gave a heartfelt statement about how he wished Davey were still there. "DSFF, I too, geek out like you. Like, I've literally sat and re-watched and re-watched that 10 seconds of video from the '89 400......the tense battle between Bodine, Earnhradt and Martin finally culminating in that hair-raising moment......the commentary was just plain fun then. Exciting and fun." That was an excellent stretch. The three wide battle, the jockeying for position going into the narrow trioval, then Mark spinning and BP losing his shit, at which point Bob pokes fun at him. Those three called the race like they were just sitting in your living room with you, relaxing and enjoying RACING. 209. Talon64 posted: 07.05.2011 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""oh, and David Ragan led a career-high 15 laps in this race, just the 3rd time he's led 10+ laps." Yikes." His 88 laps led ranks him 30th since coming to Cup full time in 2007. Even Robby Gordon (90)'s led more laps than him. His 11 top 5's are tied with David Reutimann for 21st (both came to Cup in 2007 but Reutimann's got 2 wins), 27 top 10's are tied with Joey Logano for 21st (Logano with 2 fewer seasons) and his 21.04 average finish is 22nd. so there's some even more yikes facts. 210. 00andJoe posted: 07.05.2011 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kentucky entry list is out. 48 cars: -Michael Waltrip in the #15 -Stremme in the #30 -Bliss in the #32 -Bell in the #50 -Wimmer in the Robby Gordon #77 -Riggs in the #81 -Starr in the #95 -no #21 211. Talon64 posted: 07.05.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bayne and the Wood Brothers only have 7 more races scheduled for the remainder of the season: July 31, Indy, Motorcraft/Quick Lane Aug 21, Michigan, JDRF Sept 18, Chicago, , Motorcraft/Quick Lane Oct 9, Kansas, Motorcraft/Quick Lane Oct 23, Talladega, Motorcraft/Quick Lane Nov 6, Texas, Motorcraft/Quick Lane Nov. 20, Homestead, Motorcraft/Quick Lane 212. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2011 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes Talon64, and if SPEED's Bob Dillner is correct about the fact that Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. would be next in line for a Roush Cup ride (which he deserves to be), referring to the possibility of him replacing Carl Edwards in the #99 car if Edwards, for some reason, leaves, and leaving Trevor Bayne in the #21 for 2012, which would be a part-time deal (about 15-18 races). If Bayne continues to be in the Woods' #21 car, it could very leave his career on a road to oblivion, since the #21 team is, despite the support it gets from Ford and Roush, still at the bottom of the barrel when it comes to supported teams, with limited personnel and a pit crew that is far behind the times, so if Bayne does get a competitve car, the efforts will be scuttled by a lack of people in the operation compared to most teams. The Wood Brothers may be a Roush staellite team, as Dillner mentioned, but it is still a part-time effort, running betwwen 40 and 50 percent of the season, and would not run in, among other events, the All-Star Race, for which Bayne is eligible for next year, leaving a very real possibility that Bayne might become the first driver to ever be eligible for that event never to participate in it. It might also reveal what Roush truly thinks about Bayne's potential, despite what he has said, especially through Bayne's illness. And I still wouldn't be surprised if Bayne fails to qualify for the Brickyard 400 later this month. I wonder what that would do to the Woods' schedule if Bayne fails actually fails to qualify for a race. 213. Spen posted: 07.06.2011 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who's going to outqulify them, Brian Keselowski? As long as Trevor doesn't wreck, I see no reason why he couldn't beat Brian, Kvapil, the Gunselman/Front Row #37, Riggs, and whoever drives the second RGM car, so that should be enough to make the field. Yes, the Wood Brothers have been kind of weak at the Brickyard in the past, but that was before they had Roush support. That should give them just enough HP to get in. 214. Anonymous posted: 07.06.2011 - 1:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #213: Should probably add the #50 to the list of "cars the 21 is pretty likely to be faster than". :P 215. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.06.2011 - 3:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "HE'S IN THE WALL, JARRETT IS IN THE WALL!!! That is from the '96 Southern 500 when DJ was running off with the race in which he was eligible for the Winston Million. Bob had just accidentally said they were in Darlington in Southern California and BP was being a smart ass, ragging him for it which is another thing that made them such a great trio. They could poke fun at each other, laugh with each other, but be serious and hearfelt when it was necessary." I did not even think of this, but that is yet another great example of Bob, Benny and Ned's commentating. I pointed out in my previous post that you could tell they were friends and had a lot of fun in the booth, but I think you explained it better. Man, I miss the ESPN of old! I think the #21 will more than likely make the field for the 400. The #21 Wood Brothers team of today has more speed than the team of a few years ago when they were missing races left and right with Bill Elliott and Jon Wood. I think reducing their schedule to part-time has helped them become faster in the long run. If they ever go back full time, I hope they wait until they have the funds to do so. 216. Electric Flash Yo posted: 07.06.2011 - 3:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Burton's 600th Start. He has gone 21 races in a row without a Top-10! Unbelievable. He is on pace for his worst season 1995. It's sad to see really. Jeff is a class act and a great ambassador for the sport. I hope he can turn his luck around. He really deserves to run much better. 217. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2011 - 8:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think that Yates horsepower on those long straightaways at Indy alone should put Trevor in the show. I still think he has a good Cup future.... in the future. It is awesome for him that he won the Daytona 500, but that has put some hasty expectations on him. He'll be alright in the long run as long as they don't rush it. He's just 21. 218. Electric Flash Yo posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, will Johnson still win it all? I say until he loses he is the favorite no matter what. 219. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But what about the possibility of him crashing on his qualifying lap, or him having a mechanical issue that would prevent him from even making a qualifying lap, or going out when the track is a second slower than the slower cars that would get better track conditions. remember, he's prbably going to practice faster, which will set for a later qualifying run, which at Indy, are absoluety the worst possible conditions you could qualify under there, while the other slower cars are going to go out at a much more advantageous time. That could make up the time difference right there, because the difference could be a full second, or possibly more. (Remember when Scott Riggs failed to qualify for the Daytona 500 in one of Ray Evernham's cars? That was mainly caused by transmission problems that prevented him from even making a qualifying run. And with the wretched luck that Bayne has had since his Daytona 500 win, anything could happen. Yes, the car is fast enough, but circumstances out of his control might keep him out of that race.) And, by the way, rushing him isn't the only problem he has. His inability to find sponsors might actually be his eventual undoing in the sport. After all, it led to his release from Michael Waltrip's team, and it might wind up doing the same at Roush. If that happens, then how much longer will he be in the sport? And, by the way, even when they were still competitve consistently, the Wood Brothers could still never manage a finish at Indy better than 10th. Morgan Shepherd finished there in each of the first two Brickyard 400s, then he moved to Butch Mock's team in 1996, and he finished fifth at Indy that year. 220. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I forgot to mention what happened to Jimmie Johnson in qualifying for the 2003 Coca-Cola 600 when he blew his engine on the warm-up lap. Things like that can go wrong for no explanation. 221. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way RCRandPenskeGuy and DSFF, that call of "Dale is in the wall!" in the 1996 Southern 500 only made it on the live satellite feed of the 1996 Southern 500, because that incident actually happened while ESPN was in commercial (which is why I never saw it live), so the television audience never saw that moment as it happened. The TV audience only found out about the incident after the fact in replays. Also, what if the 14-18 race Wood Brothers schedule are the only races that Trevor runs next year because Roush has to cease running at least one of his Nationwide cars due to lack of sponsorship? I don't think that the Woods will or should ever go back to full-time. Not just because of lack of funds, but because of a more obvious reason. The lack of people to run the full schedule. I think the increase in the schedule they've been running this year has put a bigger strain on the team as it is. The only way they could have the personnel to run a full schedule is if Roush actually merged one of his Nationwide team with the Wood Brothers team. Then maybe it could work, but otherwise, the Woods have nowhere near the resources to run the full schedule, and they probably never will. 222. Cooper posted: 07.06.2011 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trevor Bayne is a better race car driver than Ricky Stenhouse Jr. Trevor Bayne while driving the #99 Go Kart Toyota had three consecutive poles and was running up front regularly against a much tougher Nationwide field. Trevor has a much shorter learning curve than Ricky(who took about 6 months to learn how to drive). Trevor can jump in any race car and run competitively. Since Trevor Bayne has left the #99 Toyota, that team can't sniff the Top 10. I have statistics to back this up, if someone would like to challenge me. In the races Trevor has raced for the Wood Brothers, here are his finishes when they avoid trouble... Texas '10-17th Daytona-1st Vegas-20th Fontana-30th Texas-17th Michigan-16th These are very good runs. The only Cup race Stenhouse was in, was the Coca Cola 600 which was a total wreckfest and circus. Give me Bayne any day of the week over Ricky Stenhouse. 223. Scott B posted: 07.06.2011 - 10:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bayne and the Wood Brothers are an interesting model for what might happen more in the future (and used to happen in the past). Skipping races, but still being reasonably competitive when you do run (a restrictor plate win and mid-pack finishes eleswhere, as long as they stay out of trouble). As a potential sponsor, wouldn't you rather do that than have a team try to stretch your money too far and run a full-time schedule, but be a backmarker every week? Compare the TV exposure Bayne has gotten this season to, oh, say Casey Mears for example. I believe the last time a Daytona 500 winner ran a partial schedule by design was back in 1984, when Cale Yarborough did it. 224. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, do you think Trevor believes that, because I'm not sure he does. Yes he ran up front some in Waltrip's equipment, but he did what he's doing this year in Roush's #16 car. That is to fall well back in the early-to-mid stages of the race, then run faster towards the end. But he winds up getting so far behind as a result of his conservative driving, that fifth to seventh place is about all he can do. Last last, what Waltrip's team would do is to use pit strategy to get him up front late in the race, resulting in him getting better finishes. this year, he hasn't gotten up front due to pit strategy, and the best he has done in a non-fuel mileage race was fifth at Michigan, but was still far behind his teammates, who finished 1-2. It's entirely possible that Bayne will be good just for top ten runs with an occasionsal top five, while Stenhouse runs up front because he's aggressive. Remember that the #16 NNS car won at Charlotte with Matt Kenseth. Had Bayne been in that car that day, it wouldn't have come anywhere near victory lane, and would have been lucky to finish seventh. Bayne is a very good driver, just not aggressive or assertive enough, especially given the equipment he has this year. It's doubtful that he'll ever win in the Nationwide series due to his conservatism, unless there's a situation where he's running about fourth and the top three all crash on the last lap (which has happened before). But his knack for finishing races would have made him a contender for the championship, which is why NASCAR may thank their lucky stars for him getting sick. After all, if he hadn't there may have been a very real possibility that he couldv'e won the title not having come anywhere near victory lane during the season. Meanwhile, Stenhouse already has a win this season, and I predict that he will win at least one, and possibly as many as three more. As for your comment about Stenhouse finishing 11th in that wreck-marred race at Charlotte. I don't think Bayne would have done anywhere near that well. And I think he realizes that. 225. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To add to my last comment, I also believe that Jack Roush thinks that Stenhouse has more potential than Bayne does, that's why he's next in line if one of the Roush cars open up. 226. Cooper posted: 07.06.2011 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jack Roush constantly has screwed up with young drivers. He's not the best decision maker when it comes to young talent. He has dumped a lot of young drivers that had a chance to achieve but couldn't get the approval from Jack. You say Trevor Bayne is ultra conservative and does not push hard early in races. If what you're saying is all true, than in fact Bayne has more potential. If Bayne does what he does at 50% effort, than imagine what he could do at 100%... Trevor is younger as well. He also maintains his equipment. Do you think I want to put Wrecky Stenhouse in my Cup car? He'll wreck half my garage before he gets settled in. And I'd presume that people in NASCAR have the same opinions as well. Trevor Bayne's driving style also caters to the Cup series. Keeping your emotions and equipment in check is a very important skill that most fans disregard when it comes to racing. 500 miles is a lot different than 250. And again both of these two drivers are so early in their careers that I feel uncertain about making a hypothesis on their careers. 227. Scott B posted: 07.06.2011 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see potential in both Bayne and Stenhouse. Bayne has surely had it drilled into is head that with his age and lack of experience, his role is to stay out of the way and learn, and conserve equipment. He obviously knows how to get around a race track fast, he's shown it by qualifying well and being able to close in the late stages of a race. And if he's listening to his mentors, he'll be OK when they tell him it's OK to turn it up a notch. Stenhouse is more of the typical young driver, he'll make some mistakes but he's got loads of talent. The thing that I see in him is he's still improving rapidly, if you look at his NNW finishes from early 2010 compared to the end of the same season. So if he's still learning and hasn't hit a career plateau yet, how good could he be in 5 years? If I had to choose one to put in a full time Cup ride this week, it'd be Bayne. If Stenhouse has an impressive second half of the season in NNW, and you asked me again in November, the answer might be different. In the end it will probably depend less on stats than on which personality profile is a better fit for the sponsor. As far as Roush developing young drivers, I'd say he has pretty impressive credentials. He had to cut back the program when the economy turned sour, but so did other team owners. 228. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, I agree totally with your assessment of Bayne's possible potential if he can get a quality Cup ride in the future. After all, the history of drivers doing well in the Busch/Nationwide series and also doing well in the Cup series is so thin that you could probably count the number of those that succeeded in both on one hand. After all, you look at Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, and Tony Stewart. They've been the three most successful drivers over the last 15 years, and none of them had stellar NNS careers prior to joining the Cup series. Gordon was a victim of overdriving the car, much as Stenhouse is today, winning three times, but throwing about twice that many away. Johnson only won once, and he may not have that win if Ryan Newman had not crashed chasing Johnson down at Chicago, and Stewart didn't garner his firs NNS win until the opening race of the season in which he won his SECOND Cup championship. And Scott B, if you are right about Bayne having it drilled in his head to be conservative (by Donnie Allison and others), it would be, in my estimation, almost impossible for him to wratchet it up. History teaches us that lesson. Drivers that are conservative almost never are able to step it up, while drivers that are aggressive can tone it down. I also disagree with Cooper that Bayne is driving 50% through the majority of the race. I'd put it at about 75%, but that's still far less than drivers such as Stenhouse, Kyle Busch, and others. I also wonder if his career, promising as it unquestionably is, will be ended before it begins due to sponsorship problems. After all, lack of sponsorship torpedoed his efforts at Michael Waltrip Racing, and it may end up doing the same at Roush Racing. And if that happens, his career may be over before it really begins. If I was a car owner that was just starting a team, Bayne would be just the kind of driver I'd want, but if I wanted to win races, drivers like Stenhouse, Carl Edwards, and Kyle Busch would be the guys I'd want, because they'll lay it all on the line. No less of an authority on the sport than Bud Moore said that if he had a team and could hire any driver racing today, it would be Kyle Busch. To me, that's as good a reccomendation as any driver could get. 229. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, as for your point about keeping your emotions in check in 500-miles races, why do you think that in IndyCar racing, that drivers like Al Unser, Rick Mears, and Johnny Rutherford were the masters of the 500-mile race. Mears won more 500-mile races than anyone except A.J. Foyt (in far fewer starts), Unser had more high finishes in 500-mile races than any other IndyCar driver ever (and won all three 500-mile races in 1978, which was IndyCar racing's Triple Crown), and Rutherford is the only driver ever to win four different 500-mile IndyCar races (Indy, Pocono, Ontario, CA, and in 1986, Michigan). 230. Cooper posted: 07.06.2011 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 227. Scott B posted: 07.06.11 - 4:42 pm Very good comments. The drivers I was talking about that I believe Jack Roush screwed up with: Erik Darnell Colin Braun Danny O'Quinn Todd Kluever All of these drivers we're basically thrown to the curbside and all within the last five years. Some of them deserved, some of them not deserved. 231. Spen posted: 07.06.2011 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "his career may be over before it really begins." He still has that 500 win to fall back on. That tends to keep you employed. (Just ask Derrike Cope. He was constantly at the track for ten years after his 500 win, albeit in mid-pack at best equiptment.) 232. Talon64 posted: 07.06.2011 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bayne's got a 20.0 average start in Cup this year. Other than wrecking in the Duels in the 500, his worst start this year was 33rd back at Phoenix. Since then he hasn't been worse than 27th with 6 top 20 starts. If he does fail to qualify for a race it'll have to be mechanical issues, because I sincerely doubt he'll lack the pace to miss a race outright. "Cooper, do you think Trevor believes that, because I'm not sure he does. Yes he ran up front some in Waltrip's equipment, but he did what he's doing this year in Roush's #16 car. That is to fall well back in the early-to-mid stages of the race, then run faster towards the end. But he winds up getting so far behind as a result of his conservative driving, that fifth to seventh place is about all he can do. Last last, what Waltrip's team would do is to use pit strategy to get him up front late in the race, resulting in him getting better finishes. this year, he hasn't gotten up front due to pit strategy, and the best he has done in a non-fuel mileage race was fifth at Michigan, but was still far behind his teammates, who finished 1-2. It's entirely possible that Bayne will be good just for top ten runs with an occasionsal top five, while Stenhouse runs up front because he's aggressive. Remember that the #16 NNS car won at Charlotte with Matt Kenseth. Had Bayne been in that car that day, it wouldn't have come anywhere near victory lane, and would have been lucky to finish seventh." The numbers don't back him up always dropping to the back. In the 3 consecutive races he won the pole last season his average running position was 4th, 4th and 3rd. So he's shown the capacity for staying up front with the leaders. 233. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, for some reason Talon64, he ran better in Michael Waltrip's cars last year than he has in Roush's cars, which, to me, would seem a bit backwards, since Roush's organization is superior to Waltrip's in every way. He has finished well this year, but has not run well throughout one race this year. And that, in my opinion is because he drops back too far. Also, when he is near the front on restarts, he sometimes drops as many as 10 positions within two laps, making it impossible to get back to the front, or even where he was. That's the consevrativeness I mention. He doesn't run hard enough early after a restart and has to spend the rest of the time making up the ground he loses on the restarts, and that's purely a lack of aggression on his part. If he could only hold his ground, he'd be a lot better off. Also, the races you mention he did well in last year were all on race tracks with narrow racing lines, where his biggest weakness can't be exploited by his competitors, and that's his lack of assertiveness on restarts. Those races were at Gateway (St.Louis), IRP, and Iowa. None of those tracks offer competitors a chance to make big gains on restarts. 234. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, will Johnson still win it all?" Yes. Even in the middle of perhaps the weakest 12 month stretch of his career, I say he will win it again. And not just because he won the last 5. Once again, I see nobody that can stand toe to toe with him for those 10 races. I think they will have to lose it rather than somebody else win it. Here are the main contenders, and my thoughts about them and their chances: Harvick: Has the look of 2010 all over again. Consistently racking up those 4th to 7th place finishes over and over again. It wasn't enough last year against Jimmie "I Really Wish We Still Were Running That Ugly Wing" Johnson and Denny "What The Hell Did I Just Do?" Hamlin, and it won't be enough this year unless everybody else has bad luck and he has none. Unlikely. Plus he has a tendancy to make enemies EVERY SINGLE TIME the chance presents itself (see Dover 2010). Carl: Too streaky. I don't see him keeping up the blistering pace he set through Kansas. Others are catching up. They have not been the kind of team that can turn it on at the drop of a hat. If he can get the advantage he had at the start of the year again, then he can do it. But we can't forget he is a headcase too. Plus the longer this contract thing stretches, the more hard feelings are likely to be involved and the more momentum they lose and the harder it will be to get it back. Kyle: I know this goes against what I said about JJ and the past not necessarily meaning much, but until he shows SOMETHING when the pressure is truly on, it is hard to believe in him. He has showed much improvement in the face of controversy this year, but he is still Kyle Busch. He is still a magnet for unnecessary adversity, and all this will add up on him emotionally and he will be melting by the end of the year again most likely just like every other year. Kurt: Given Penske Racing's past, it's hard to believe they will keep up this pace. Plus, Kurt is very dependant on his team unloading good. Getting a bad car right is not his strong suit. Like his brother, he has a hard time grinding out good finishes from mediocre cars. Kenseth: The sleeper in my opinion. The combo of him and Jimmy seems potent. They have won by kicking everyone's ass (Texas) and by smart pit strategy (Dover). But overall, they don't have the week in, week out muscle to hang with the 48. They would need one hell of a hot streak. June: When the major thing going in your direction for the year is "His crew chief is such a cheerleader, he is really keeping his driver in the game", that is a bad sign. Gordon: In my opinion, the most likely to win the 2011 Cup championship not named Jimmie Johnson. Yeah, I said it. First of all, although he has been around forever, he only turns 40 this year. He is still in a driver's traditional prime. Secondly, him and Alan are starting to develop some really good chemistry. He seems rejuvenated by the move to "Hendrick South". He is no longer in the shadow of the 48 team, the team he started, to be stomped year in and year out by the monster he created. Third, he is still Jeff Gordon. Nuff said. Then again, he is at "Hendrick South", and they will be focusing energies this Fall on getting ready for Kasey Kahne in 2012. Clint Bowyer: Nowhere near fast enough. Ryan Newman: After regaining a pulse for the first time in 3 years in '09 and the start of '10, he has gone back into rigor mortis. Denny: Still suffering from "The Johnson Effect". Tony Stewart: He will be lucky to make it through November without being admitted into a psych ward. I'm not kidding. With the way his career is going, and his team sliding fast as the Hendrick Motor Department keeps giving him leftover engines that went into the Days of Thunder movie cars back in 1990, he is heading for the biggest meltdown in NASCAR history. I am dead serious. He might actually start breathing fire. OK, that part was a joke, but the rest isn't. 235. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really NASCAR? An NWide race at the big Indy track? Ugh. For every good step they take (this points thing is starting to show dividends), they do something like this. Taking away a great stand alone event at IRP (or whatever the hell its called now), a great short track, and adding another companion event is absurd. I know NASCAR is doing this not so much for the NWide Series, but to rejuvenate interest at The Brickyard. They will also add a sports car event that weekend on the F1 road course (I wonder if more than 6 cars will start) to make a weekend full of racing at the track. I have a few thoughts: First of all, is Indy really worth it? Look, I respect what Indy means to American auto racing. I understand that the 1994 Brickyard 400 was the "official" signal that NASCAR was big time (even though they were already there). I know IMS is Lambeau Field, Yankee Stadium, Fenway Park, and MSG all rolled into one. But why bring down the overall product of the sport just to race here? NASCAR did just fine without it. It's impact on stock car racing is overrated. They are just watering down the NWide Series and the significance of winning the Brickyard 400. Don't hurt the sport to cater to a single place. They just tried this with California Speedway, changing its dates all over the place just to have a presence in the LA market. It didn't work, all we got out of it was some really lousy racing. Now we are down to one Cali race, and all the happier because of it. Secondly, wasn't Brian France's reasoning behind killing so many great traditions in the South and moving so many dates from here to avoid "market saturation"? Look, I know Brian is a damn idiot, proof that ANYBODY can be CEO of a major sporting league as long they have the right last name. And I don't give a rat's ass about "market", all I care about is good racing. But if they are going to give that reason, then why turn around and "oversaturate" the midwest? I have nothing against the midwest, their racing fans are some of the best and loyal out there, but how many tracks do we have out there? Michigan (2), Kansas (2), Indy, Kentucky (right below the Ohio border), and Chicago. All cookie cutters. Meanwhile great midwestern tracks like Iowa and IRP don't have a chance. Damn it all. 236. potatosalad48 posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The NNS series moving to the big track in Indy is a terrible idea. I wouldn't be surprised if 1 guy led every lap. The track is so big the field will get spread out in 5 laps. 237. Cooper posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No offense to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, but it is the worst stock car race track in the world. Absolutely awful. And to make it better, I get to see legendary talents like Jeff Green, Derrike Cope and Steven Wallace battle wheel to wheel. How exhilarating! If NASCAR thinks offering more than one race at this track will increase ticket sales, then they are completely insane. And DSFF's last post is completely correct. But in reality there's nothing we can do. All we can do is watch and sing Kumbaya. 238. Cooper posted: 07.06.2011 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "234. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.11 - 9:08 pm" I think the favorite has to me the M&M Toyota. Followed by Johnson/Edwards/Harvick All the tools are there for Busch. He just needs to know which ones to use, how to use them and when to use them. 239. Eric posted: 07.06.2011 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I seen great races at Indy on television, but there are for open wheel racing, not stock racing. I didn't think adding a Nationwide & and a grand -am race to Indianapolis Motor Speedway will help the track for increasing ticket sales. I think Indianapolis Motor Speedway will be lucky if they get more than 45,000 fans for the Nationwide race. The decline of race fans for the Indy cup date really started with "tiregate" in 2008. Race Fans never forget that fiasco. It is one of the factors of why Indianapolis Motor Speedway is on the decline on attendance. The 2nd factor on the decline is take a look the amount of Midwest track dates in 1994 to now. The 3rd factor for decline of attendance for the Brickyard 400 is the novelty of Stock cars racing at Indy has worn off. 240. 00andJoe posted: 07.06.2011 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #233: Maybe Bayne's results in the Diamond-Waltrip car were better than they have been in the Roush car because he drove the 99 harder, due to the fact that DWR wasn't as secure as RFR? He knew he had to go out there and show what he could do, whereas now he's in a secure seat so he can afford not to run as hard. (For another example of this, look at the qualifying results for Tommy Baldwin's #36 before and after they got locked into the top 35...) As for moving the NNS race to Indy: not only that, but they killed off the IRP Truck race completely, it seems! Gaaaaaah! 241. Eric posted: 07.06.2011 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I predict that the Brickyard 400 will be gone by 10 years from now, or Nascar will be forced to get a rid of a track date from one of the tracks in the Midwest that has 2 races dates a year in that time period in Michigan and Kansas. Michigan is a track that is really debatable if it really needs 2 cup dates anymore. They hasn't sold out either race in recent years. If attendance continues to drop, they really need look at getting a rid of a date there. Kansas right now appears to be a track that attendance is dropping there because it has 2 dates thank to Brian France thinking rewarding a race track deserves a 2nd cup race date because it has a casino being built. I am saying that because last year the track had 100,000 fans and the spring race only had 80,000. Anyone with a brain could figure out that a casino at race track isn't a good reason to have a 2nd cup date. Dover has a Casino and look at the attendance issues it has. 242. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.06.2011 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Really NASCAR? An NWide race at the big Indy track? Ugh. For every good step they take (this points thing is starting to show dividends), they do something like this. Taking away a great stand alone event at IRP (or whatever the hell its called now), a great short track, and adding another companion event is absurd. I know NASCAR is doing this not so much for the NWide Series, but to rejuvenate interest at The Brickyard. They will also add a sports car event that weekend on the F1 road course (I wonder if more than 6 cars will start) to make a weekend full of racing at the track." Ugh! SERIOUSLY?! I have not read about this yet, but if it is true it's a load of crap. Just because one of Sprint Cup's most popular races is held there means the Nationwide Series should race there too? It gives the Cup drivers yet ANOTHER companion week. Way to go NASCAR. Johnson will yet again win the championship. No other race team has all the pieces to their puzzle put together as well as the #48 team does. Jimmie is also dedicated to being the best he can be on the track. Combine those two, and you have a championship dynasty. If I'm wrong, feel free to find this post and throw it in my face, as I'll be more than happy to eat the crow. But I just don't see it happening. 243. Anonymous posted: 07.06.2011 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, a lot of people complaining about Indy. I don't see any reason why the track doesn't deserve a support race when every other track gets one. It's NASCAR's fault that they don't have enough sense to keep a separate Nationwide race at IRP some other weekend during the year, not IMS's. IMS deserves at least 1 Nationwide race, when so many other tracks have 2. IRP should have a separate Nationwide/Truck doubleheader weekend some other time during the year, then everyone wins. The Nationwide drivers get to enjoy the splendor and prestige of IMS, the Cup race gets some much needed support, and IRP keeps it's longstanding race. All the while, the Indianapolis area and it's loyal race fans get the 1 Cup race and multiple support races that so many other tracks already have the privilege of enjoying. And don't complain to me about the racing at Indy when we just watched that debacle at Daytona this week, and a dozen other races this year take place on identical 1.5 mile tracks that don't have 1/20 of the prestige of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. 244. New 14&88 Fan posted: 07.06.2011 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Moving the N'wide race from ORP to Indy....yeah smart move there NA$CAR -_- 245. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2011 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, I think you can count one one hand and just part of a second the number of good open-wheel races you have seen at Indy, much less the NASCAR races there. That is because the Indianapolis Motor speedway was never designed for racing, much less the high-speed racing of today. It was designed as a test track for the cars of the day (around 1910). I also think that the Brickyard 400 could, regrettably, be gone within three years, meaning the 10 that you say is a very generous estimation. 00andJoe, I believe the moving of the NNS race to Indy and the elimination of the truck race at IRP next year may be a sign that the oval at IRP may be about to be shut down. IRP is, I believe, owned by the NHRA, and they may not want to have the oval open for much longer. As for Eric's point about Bayne driving harder for Michael Waltrip's team last year than for Roush this year. I'm not sure I believe that. As I mentioned in post #233, Bayne's best races last year were at tracks where his grestest weakness, his lack of assertiveness on restarts could not be exploited by his competitors. Those races were at IRP, Iowa, and Gateway in St. Louis. All three of those tracks have (had in the case of Gateway) narrow racing grooves where he could not get overwhelmed on restarts. He's always seemed to me to be too conservative, just wanting to get to the finish of races and then run hard then. After all, as I also mentioned in that post, it seems that every time he restarts among the leaders, he loses up to 10 positions in the first 2 or 3 laps, making it nearly impossible to regain all the lost ground. Once the race gets running, he's almost as fast as anyone, but the conservativeness on restarts gets him so far behind that his late-race runs would get him up to about fifth to seventh place, at best. 246. Electric Flash Yo posted: 07.07.2011 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, Kenseth definitely has a good shot. He's just so damn smooth, ya know? He can win big at times, he can be aggressive. Kenseth is definitely a threat. Gordon has a shot. But, I think he's a year away still. Edwards is fading now LOL, why expect him to contend come Chase time? Kyle is Kyle. I think he could win it, but it's unlikely. Overall Johnson has it for this year. My gut feeling is he'll win it in 2011 and then start to fall off a bit starting next year. 247. Eric posted: 07.07.2011 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, I have watched more than a handful of Indy 500 races. You shouldn't make any false statements like me not watching a lot of Indy 500 races or Brickyard 400 races. You could accuse of having nostalgia for Indy 500. I have been watching indy 500 since the late 1980's as in anywhere from 3 to 5 grade. It might have nostalgia for me since I followed CART before I first started to Follow Nascar starting with the 1993 Daytona 500. The fact I started to following racing in CART, not Nascar shouldn't be a stunner based on where I live. I grow up in a state that has 2 famous race tracks in Milwaukee Mile and Road America at a time that Nascar didn't have a race in Nascar back when I started following racing. I remembered the 1991 Indy 500 late race pass Rick Mears did on my favorite driver at the time Micheal Andretti. The 1992 Indy 500 was a classic also with the ending between Scott Goodyear and Al Unser Jr. . The final laps of the 2006 Indy 500 with Sam Hornish Jr. passing Marco Andretti was a great ending. This years Indy 500 had a great ending. I admit the Indy 500 had a dry spell of great finishes, but part of that was caused by the Cart/IRL split. The IRL really didn't have great depth during its first years in terms of quality of drivers for that series. The 1994 Brickyard 400 was a good race. The catch is the racing there really suffered starting 1995 thanks the Aero issues there. Yes, it had some last 10 lap passes for the lead, but a lot of those races were won on pit road, or by strategy. The 2003 Brickyard 400 is a prime example. Kevin got track position and won the race thank to aerodynamics. 248. Eric posted: 07.07.2011 - 1:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What I meant to say instead of "I have been watching indy 500 since the late 1980's as in anywhere from 3 to 5 grade" was " I have been watch the Indy 500 since the late 1980's when I was anywhere from 3 grade to 4th grade" on the day the Indy 500 happened. 249. 18fan posted: 07.07.2011 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Brickyard sucks for stock cars. Great move NASCAR, killing yet another short track. 250. Frank posted: 07.07.2011 - 4:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, with all respect to your knowledge in US motorsports I should say that your jealous and envy to Trevor Bayne is really funny. Good that quality of this board sure enough to put another opinion in strong fashion. Of course Trevor is better than Ricky. Much better. Thank you Cooper for pointing this. Ricky had miserable, shameful full season in NNS last year when Trevor, being near the loosing momentum of his career after after MWR dumped him for money reasons, showed unbelievably mature performance in Cup Texas race and in the next one... it's already history. History that very unlikely will be matched. First Cup race for Stenhouse? Hit the wall 3 times, first on lap 2 or 3. Fell 2 laps down and was lucky to caught cautions right and had enough gas to get nice finish for the stats. The only thing I can admit is that Trevor looking worse after his illness than before. And why he is still unsponsored is out of my mind. But not too much wondering looking how committed UPS is to the guy that won this particular race. And, cjs3872, do you think that sponsors are even watching races and can differ agression from calmness? All they are interesting is stats, tv time and publicity. But still it's stange that #16 in NNS have no logos. "A similar situation happened at Martinsville in '05 between Gordon and Kurt Busch, setting off a fued that is still going on. Jeff got under Kurt going into 3 and just went straight while Kurt turned because, you know, there was a turn there. The FOX crew put the blame on Kurt. That isn't a surprise because 1) the FOX crew are major homers for Jeff 2) FOX usually gets things wrong 3) nobody likes Kurt and 4) to the untrained eye it really looks like Kurt cut across him since he is turning and Jeff is going straight." DSFF, you just made my day! 251. Spen posted: 07.07.2011 - 5:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But still it's stange that #16 in NNS have no logos." To me, that's not strange at all. Put yourself in a company's shoes. Would you rather spend a lot of money on someone who *might* be good in the future, or would you want to spend money on a full-time cup driver who *is* good right now? Seems like an easy choice to me. If I owned a company, I wouldn't sponsor anyone in Busch that has fewer than ten cup wins. 252. irony posted: 07.07.2011 - 6:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only series that should be allowed to race at the Brickyard are IndyCar, Cup, F1, and MotoGP (even the later two are debatable as Indianapolis is the mecca of oval racing). No support series! The Brickyard isn't just a race track, it's THE race track. Plus, ORP is a better race - probably the best NW and Truck races of the year. This is another case of NASCAR not giving a damn what the fans want, and the Brickyard disgracing itself by having Indy Lights and Nationwide races at a track that only the best drivers in the world should be allowed to race. 253. Frank posted: 07.07.2011 - 7:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, of course I will sponsor Cup driver who secures good result almost everytime. I am not talking about Fastenal moving from #60 or so. But I am wondering that there is NO ONE logo (except rickyvstrevor.com which redirects to roush racing website). Maybe Jack doesn't interesting in average companies and part-time deals, I don't know. 254. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2011 - 9:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, I'm not jealous or envious in regards to Trevor Bayne or anyone else. I just base my opinions on what I merely observe with my own eyes. Nothing else. Trevor Bayne and Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. are two completely different kinds of drivers. Stenhouse is more aggressive, which suits him better now, while Bayne's patient, more conservative style may suit him better down the line in the longer races, which seem to suit him better. I'm not saying one is marketly better than the other. I'm just pointing out the stark difference between the two and why Stenhouse is better in the NNS series than Bayne is. But that's just as likely to turn around in the Cup series' longer races. You are right about Stenhouse hitting the wal about six times during the 600, and catching the cautions to help him later on. I must also say that the Wood Brothers can only be competitve in races that are marred by caution flags, due to their personnel disadvantage. (The same goes for the Phoenix Racing team of Landon Cassill.) But I have also stated the you could count the number of drivers that have been successful in both the Cup and Nationwide Series on one hand. As for Eric's comment about there being a lot of good races at Indy. There have been some in modern times, mostly starting in about 1993, when the track was reconfigured to today's alignment. Those races would be 1993, '95, '97, 2001, 2005, and 2007 (before it rained). The races from 1987 through 1992 were, for the most part, terrible, with 1992 being the worst Indy race ever (not even the finish could take away from the disaster that race was), and that includes the tragic 1973 race. As for the greatest Indy race ever? I'd say that occurred in 1982. Sure the finish was great, but so was the rest of that race. The best racing at Indy actually occurred in the roadster era, as every race from 1958-'61 races featured prolonged comptetion among multiple drivers, with the 1960 race setting competition records that still exist today. And you have to keep in mind that the Indianapolis 500 was the last race among the classics to see the field bunch up during caution flag periods, as that didn't happen there until 1979. The 2006 race that you mentioned didn't become good until pit stops shuffled the field near the end. Until then, Dan Wheldon had absolutely dominated, leading 144 laps. And the 1991 race had so few cars running at the end that only the top two finishers were on a common lap (sixth-place finisher Gordon Johncock was 12 laps/30 miles behind). And Emerson Fittipladi was six laps ahead of anyone else that finished the 1989 race. (He and Al Unser, Jr. tangled on the next-to-last lap battling for the win, and Unser still finished four laps ahead of third place.) 255. Emperor Palpatine posted: 07.07.2011 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At post 234: Oh No DSFF you will find that it is you who is mistaken about a great many things. I have foreseen that Johnson pathetic title reign will come to an end Oh I am afraid the opposition will be quite operational to stop Johnson once and for all 256. Talon64 posted: 07.07.2011 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well, for some reason Talon64, he ran better in Michael Waltrip's cars last year than he has in Roush's cars, which, to me, would seem a bit backwards, since Roush's organization is superior to Waltrip's in every way. He has finished well this year, but has not run well throughout one race this year. And that, in my opinion is because he drops back too far. Also, when he is near the front on restarts, he sometimes drops as many as 10 positions within two laps, making it impossible to get back to the front, or even where he was. That's the consevrativeness I mention. He doesn't run hard enough early after a restart and has to spend the rest of the time making up the ground he loses on the restarts, and that's purely a lack of aggression on his part. If he could only hold his ground, he'd be a lot better off. Also, the races you mention he did well in last year were all on race tracks with narrow racing lines, where his biggest weakness can't be exploited by his competitors, and that's his lack of assertiveness on restarts. Those races were at Gateway (St.Louis), IRP, and Iowa. None of those tracks offer competitors a chance to make big gains on restarts." Cup Roush equipment is better than EGR stuff but Jamie McMurray looked like crap during his time with Roush but a hero with EGR last season. Sometimes chemistry makes the biggest difference. That's something Ricky Stenhouse Jr. has an advantage with, already in his 2nd year with CC Mike Kelley while Bayne's in his first with Chris Andrews. But Bayne's still done a good job with 2 different organizations, something I'm even more impressed with in Justin Allgaier who's pretty well picked up where he left off after going from Penske to Turner. 257. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2011 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Right Talon64, which is why I have Allgaier #3 on my drivers to watch in the future list. Number one is, of course, Stenhouse, who today was the driver that was tabbed to test the fuel injection on the Ford side. econd is Austin Dillon, who scheduled to drive Mike Curb's #98 car this weekend for his Cup debut, which is painted somewhat like "Ol Calhoun", the #98 roadster that Parnelli Jones dominated with at Indy in the early '60s for car owner J.C. Agajanian. (Curb is partnered with Cary Agajanian and has been partners with him for a great number of years.) Third is Allgaier, with Cole whitt, a one-time truck series point leader earler this year, as fourth. his main problem may be with his sponsor pulling out at year's end. Then I have Trevor Bayne fifth, assuming he can get sponsorship. If not, he may already be on the road to oblivion as far as his career goes. After all, a part-time schedule for the Wood Brothers may be the only races he runs next year unless sponsorship can be found for either his NNS or Cup car for the races his teams doesn't run. 258. Talon64 posted: 07.07.2011 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "econd is Austin Dillon, who scheduled to drive Mike Curb's #98 car this weekend for his Cup debut, which is painted somewhat like "Ol Calhoun", the #98 roadster that Parnelli Jones dominated with at Indy in the early '60s for car owner J.C. Agajanian. (Curb is partnered with Cary Agajanian and has been partners with him for a great number of years.)" This weekend? He's one of the two Chevy fuel injection test drivers but he's not running the Cup race. 259. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.07.2011 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The only series that should be allowed to race at the Brickyard are IndyCar, Cup, F1, and MotoGP (even the later two are debatable as Indianapolis is the mecca of oval racing). No support series!" This confuses me somewhat. To anyone here who has been to a NASCAR race, how does it all work? I mean, when do you head to the track, how much time do you spend there and how much racing do you see? I mean, I look at schedules and, correct me if I'm wrong, on a Sunday, the only on-track session is the Cup race itself. I can completely understand what NASCAR is trying to do with this Indy weekend and I think it's a great idea - but agree that it's a foolish move to lose ORP. The only top level series that I've been to see is the V8 Supercars (and Champ Cars when they came to Aus) and when you go to a V8 Supercar race, you're at the track from sunrise to sunset. Looking at the results for the last round, there were 5 different championships running on the same weekend, with 16 races shared between Saturday and Sunday (with practice sessions all day Friday). How would you feel if NASCAR put on an event with all three top-level championships running on the same day? Imagine a day-night event, with a Truck race at say, 10:30am, Nationwide race at 1:00pm and the Cup race at 5:00pm? Good idea, or am I sounding like a crazy man with this? 260. Red posted: 07.07.2011 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In light of the Bayne/Stenhouse debate, let me ask a philosophical question: Why do conservative race car drivers even exist? In my mind, "conservative racer" is almost an oxymoron. Why would someone with a laid back personality get into racing in the first place? The very nature of the sport would seem to dictate an aggressive, competitive, risk-taking personality from its drivers. I look at guys like Terry Labonte, Jeff Burton, and the older version of Mark Martin, and wonder why they ever started racing to begin with. Obviously they have the talent, but none of them have that killer instinct that I would think all racers should have. These guys seem content to pull over and let people pass, like they're politely driving down the freeway. I don't get it. If that's your personality, why not play golf instead? I don't mean that as an insult to those drivers, I just get the impression that their personalities don't match the sport they're in. 261. V12 Matra posted: 07.07.2011 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very sad about the loss of Raceway Park, that track has put on incredible races for every series that chooses to race there, and its certainly a better track for NASCAR. Imagine 40k (and that is a confident estimate) attending Nationwide in a place with the capacity of IMS. Ive always been a road racing sports car guy above all else, and I dont think its quite right that Grand Am will be racing at the world center of oval racing as well, especially in a Sprint format instead of a special enduro like the 24 Hours of Daytona. For me its a bit like NASCAR or Indycar racing at Circuit de La Sarthe or the Nurburgring, not quite right. 262. V12 Matra posted: 07.07.2011 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Grand Am struggles to attract a crowd anywhere it visits. Watch the grandstands at the 1998 Rolex 24 and then the 2011 Rolex 24. Problem is the new rules have ruined the car show and brand loyalty type atmosphere that is common at and attracts people to sports car racing. If they wanted sports car racing to attract a crowd for the Brickyard 400 weekend, they should have made it either an SCCA Runoffs type of event, or the World EnduranceChampionship with Audi, Peugeot, Corvette, Ferrari, BMW, Pescarolo, Aston ect with factory teams. Also, I wonder where the truck date will move to from IRP. 263. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.08.2011 - 1:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not only is IRP/ORP?/ARP?/ERP?/URP? going away, but the future of Montreal is also in jeopardy! If that ends up happening, then I give up on Nationwide. NA$CAR is literally trying to kill the Nationwide series (Not that they haven't already with the whole points fiasco). 264. Anonymous85 posted: 07.08.2011 - 3:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My opinion on the Bayne/Stenhouse debate is who cares both guys are completely useless in my opinion 265. irony posted: 07.08.2011 - 7:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #259 Cup is the only activity on their race day. I should of called NW a feeder series. Cup Lite would be accurate as well. 266. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2011 - 9:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon64, then there was a late change in plans, because I though the plans were to have Dillon make his Cup debut in the race at Kentuky. Sorry about the mistake. As for the Bayne/Stenhouse debate. Only time will tell, though Stenhouse is getting the attention now since he's in the championship battle, while Bayne fell out of the picture due to his illness, so he's getting virtually no attention from Roush on the Nationwide side. Now if Stenhouse, for some reason, falls out of championship contention (and one more bad race, if it comes soon may just do that), we may see more focus put on Bayne's effort. As Red's comments about conservative drivers. There have been conservative drivers and aggressive drivers ever since the sport began. After all, Ray Harroun's win the very first Indianaplis 500 in 1911 was done by driving conservatively. In 1936, Louis Meyer basically introduced drafting, not as a race strategy, but as a fuel conservation move, because the cars for that race at Indy in 1936 were limited to 37.5 gallons of gas for the entire race. In more modern times, some of the greatest drivers in history were conservative drivers. In IndyCar racing, Rick Mears and Al Unser come to mind. Both were masters at conserving their equipment. In NASCAR, you had drivers like Tim Flock, Rex White, Benny Parsons, Fred Lorenzen, David Pearson, and Darrell Waltrip, all of whom were known as conservative drivers. Now they could become aggressive when the situation warranted. So to have drivers like Jeff Burton, Mark Martin, and the Labonte brothers (among others) being conservative drivers is nothing new. Even Jeff Gordon has become more conservative in recent years, which may partially explain his lack of wins in recent years, even though his number of high finishes hasn't slowed down. (It must be noted that he's starting to look like the Gordon of old this year, having already won twice this year and finishing strongly, which he hadn't done in recent years.) So while aggressive drivers that want to go to the front as fast they can are prevelent in the sport's history, so are drivers that are conservative, wanting only to be in the front at the end, when it counts. By the way, I think that Kyle Busch drove what, for him, was a very conservative race in last night's truck race at Kentucky, while all those that could've challenged him ran into one problem or another. And where did that get him? Right into victory lane. Sometimes, even for an aggressive driver like Busch, and there's no one more aggressive on the track than him, running a conservative race can get him into victory lane just as easily as driving hard. And as those involved in the Ron Hornaday mess in last night's race (and there were fou other trucks involved in the mess that he started), or those that watched that incident take place will note, that there is a difference between being aggressive and just being plain stupid, and what Hornaday did was just plain stupid. 267. irony posted: 07.08.2011 - 10:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hornaday and Kyle are cut from the same cloth, and I'd call Ron the more aggressive of the two. Along with Montoya, those three could be considered more crazy than aggressive. All three will make at least one move a year that you call "plain stupid". They are Saturday night racers. Horn gets away with it (and usually benefits from it) because he actually races in a Saturday night series. 268. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2011 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, he didn't this time and took four others put with him this time, including Cole Whitt, who he was battling for third in the race and second in points. He felt like he could intimidate him, but he discovered otherwise. And like I stated, Kyle Busch won, not just because probably he's one of the five best drivers in NASCAR today, but because he also drove a smart, conservative race. If he learns to drive like that on a consistent basis, everyone in the sport is going to be in trouble for the next 20 years, because it will show that he has the patience to go with the obvious speed he has. That's the lesson that Jeff Gordon learned in about 1995, and we saw what happened from there. If Kyle learns in the same way, 100 (or more) Cup wins is not in any way out of the question, since he already has 21 at the time of this posting. 269. Talon64 posted: 07.08.2011 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The only thing I can admit is that Trevor looking worse after his illness than before." Bayne had Top 5's in his first 2 races back in NNS, and his best Cup finish since his D500 win in his first race back in Cup at Michigan. So I think he's pretty well picked up where he left off, maybe even a tiny bit better. Road America and Daytona were tough on him, but they were tough on a lot of guys too. 270. 00andJoe posted: 07.08.2011 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner standings by best finishing team car: 1. Roush, 710 2. Gibbs, 686 3. Hendrick, 684 4. Childress, 676 5. Penske, 605 6. Stewart-Haas, 565 7. Petty, 562 8. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 534 9. Red Bull, 530 10. Michael Waltrip, 480 11. Furniture Row, 372 12. JTG-Daughtery, 345 13. Front Row, 333 14. Phoenix, 290 15. FAS Lane, 251 16. Baldwin, 250 17. Germain, 242 18. Robby Gordon, 214 19. Wood Brothers 204 20. TRG, 202 21. Gunselman, 126 22. Whitney, 87 23. NEMCO, 62 24. HP, 61 25. Inception, 27 26. Rusty Wallace, 24 27. Leavine, 14 28. Falk, 11 29. K-Automotive, 9 271. Frank posted: 07.08.2011 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872 @254 Among the best Indy 500's of the recent years you need to point 2003 and especially 2004. In 04 there was danger of big rainout and green flag pitstops occured closer to the end with actuall winner Buddy Rice could lost it again after big comeback. But cycle closed and race didn't run full distance by couple laps. Also I don't consider 1992 as a horrible race. It was very cold weather with very few grip. Surviving race for most drivers except of course Michael Andretti who never knew what it is to save the car. Great example of unnecessary aggression. 272. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2011 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Frank, the 2004 Indianapolis 500 wasn't shortened by a "couple of laps" as you stated, but by a full 50 miles, as the race was flagged at 180 laps (the longest of the rain-shortened faces, six laps londer than the 1975 race). And that race wasn't that good, either, though as you accurately pointed out, fuel mileage could have turned the race inside out. Interestingly, the yellow came out for rain on lap 174, the same lap number as the monsoon the ended the 1975 race occurred on, but seven laps were run under caution before the race was ended 20 laps from the finish. And how can anyone not consider the 1992 race anything short of a disaster. Sure, cold weather had a lot to do with it, but when you have drivers such as Rick Mears, Emerson Fittiapldi, Mario and Jeff Andretti all taken to the hospital after their crashes, and with them setting records for time spent under caution (well over 2 hours was spent behind the pace car that day) and caution laps (85, easily breaking the record of 69 set in the equally disastrous 1981 race), and that eight of the race's 13 cautions were from accidents, not including Roberto Guerrero's crash before the race even started. In fact, of the 33 cars that gridded for the race, 13 were knocked out in wrecks. Only the 1966 race, in which half the field crashed at the start, had more cars eliminated in crashes. In addidtion to Mears, Fittipaldi, Roberto Guerrero, and Mario and Jeff Andretti, Tom Sneva, Jim Crawford, Philippe Gache, Stan Fox, Jimmy Vasser, Brian Bonner, Gary Bettenhausen (in Jeff Andretti's crash), and Arie Luyendyk all crashed out of that race. In fact, it was so dangerous in 1992 at Indy that, along with the coming of NASCAR, the track had to be reconfigured to it's current configuration due to all the terrible accidents. Jovy Marcelo had been killed in practice and 3-time F1 champion Nelson Piquet, the father of the NASCAR Camping world Truck Series driver of the same name, had his legs shattered in a practice crash. And Jeff Andretti also had his feet shatted in his crash, while Mario also suffered broken toes, and Fittipaldi and Mears were also injured in that race, so yes, I would call it, despite the fabulous finish, the worst Indy race in modern history, even worse than the 1973 debacle. As for Michael Andretti driving too hard. That wasn't what put him out of the race. What out him out of the race after leading 163 laps was fuel pressure problems, which were possibly caused by running a brand new engine type for 500 miles. (Only one of the four Ford-Cosworths finished the race that day.) Frankly what really knocked him out was the Andretti Curse, which dates back to at least 1981, and possibly as far back as 1969, as there was no way he was ever going to win that race. (Mario Andretti had dominated the 1987 race in much the same fashion, but be broke a valve spring late, because he was actually babying the car too much with a 1-lap lead he got from the misfortunes of others.) Because of the Andretti Curse, no Andretti will EVER win the Indianapolis 500 ever again, at least as a driver. (Michael has won it twice as a car owner.) 273. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2011 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Talon64, I saw in the Nationwide series race tonight, really for the first time this year, Trevor be aggressive on restarts, even snookering the restart master, Kyle Busch on one occasion, before a caution for Mogran Shepherd's nullified his move on Busch, though his move on Joey Logano on the same restart stuck. If Bayne can continue to be that assertive, he can win some races, if Roush puts enough effort into that car, because I thought all he lacked was assertiveness all along, because he has the talent, as well as the knack for being there at the finish. If can stay as assertive as he was in this race, and Roush finally put effort into that team, which he really has no reason to, he WILL contend for victories. 274. irony posted: 07.08.2011 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle's aggressiveness isn't really his problem. He is too easily frustrated and lets it distract him. At least that's what I hear listening to him, and see in his demeanor. As for Hornaday, he wrecks himself at least once a year and all he has to show for it is 4 titles and 48 wins. His wreck or win mentality works very well in the series he races in. 275. irony posted: 07.09.2011 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) BTW, I was very angry at Ron because I don't want Sauter winning the title. Sauter, though, will win or loose it for himself. He has the Kyle Busch mentality - ("I'm dominating the race, no one can touch me with a 10 foot pole, but this truck is garbage!" (breaks drive shaft) That's the 2nd race in a row something like that has happened to Sauter. 276. Frank posted: 07.09.2011 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yep, I messed up with "couple laps", but point stands - it wasn't rainout that affected outcome of 2004 Indy 500. And racing was good, I don't know, compare to 1995 and 1993 of course it wasn't but you pointed 2007. The one that by the way wasn't called just because it was TK and not Marco leading at the rain delay after halfway done. 277. the_man posted: 07.18.2011 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on his first career win: 'There's not a better place to win at than Daytona. First of all, I've got to thank the Lord for looking after me. We delivered a win for UPS. I've been promising all those UPSers for a couple of years and finally got it in Daytona. It couldn't be any better. It's a great points night. It couldn't be a better night. I have to thank Matt Kenseth, my Ford teammate worked well together. Matt pushed me to the finish line. The Roush Yates horsepower was great. Doug and Robert Yates back at the house, thanks for all the help. I thank the fans and Sprint. There's not a better night to win. This is awesome.' 278. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2011 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, the 57 lead changes not only set a new record for the Firecracker 400 (the previous record was 48), but it was also just two lead changes shy of the old Daytona 500 record of 59. Interstingly, both records were set in 1974. 279. 00andJoe posted: 08.11.2011 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fifth caution's accident occured in turn 2. 280. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #37 Tony Raines Out using fastest 43: #7 Mike Bliss 281. Robert Nelson posted: 07.12.2012 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Carl Edwards 161 Kyle Busch 154 Matt Kenseth 130 282. Spen posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) While I don't think there was any fanfare about it whatsoever, this was Terry Labonte's 1000th NASCAR start. 283. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 04.24.2014 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew 81 Scott Riggs Chevy Whitney Collision Dusty Whitney 284. Old Sponsor Updates posted: 08.29.2015 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #39 Bass Pro Shops/NRA #32 C&J Energy Services #47 Kingsford/Scott Products 285. Braindead Zombie posted: 05.02.2016 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvicks paint job from this race is one of my all-time favorites. 286. GoPM21 posted: 09.09.2019 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Bliss should be listed under driver change(s). 287. SweetRich posted: 06.29.2020 - 9:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The commentators were Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty. The pit road reporters were Matt Yocum, Marty Snider, Ralph Sheheen and Chris Neville. 288. RyanM posted: 11.30.2020 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Despite this race ending under caution, Ryan Newman was very nearly piledriven by multiple drivers at near full speed while crashing in the tri-oval on the last lap, nearly ten seconds after the caution was displayed. All the proof anyone should need of how completely useless it is for NASCAR to throw the yellow with the checkered flag in sight. 289. Rich posted: 12.06.2020 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joining the race coverage were Larry McReynolds as the in-race analyst and Lindsay Czarniak as the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: