|| *Comments on the 2011 Quaker State 400:* View the most recent comment <#220> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Kinetic posted: 07.08.2011 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Qualifying rained out. Kyle Busch wins the pole due to being fastest in final practice. 2. Dodge posted: 07.08.2011 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something I wish NASCAR would change is if qualifications are rained out, then go ahead and start the ALL of the field by speed. Michael Waltrip was fast enough and would of been in as would Stremme I believe it was. The reason why I bring this up is that they got the first 22 to qualify before the sky opened up. EVERY go or go-homer had already gone out but since they didn't complete it, 2 guys that were fast in practice and had locked-in a spot got screwed over. 3. Cooper posted: 07.08.2011 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whatever happened to the "Boris Said" rule. I thought that rule was to protect the faster cars from going home but obviously I was wrong. I actually need some help with this rule because I can almost guarantee that the rule a couple of weeks ago was the starting field was determined through practice times. But hey, NASCAR sent the two of the fastest Non-35 home. Sounds like a good rule to me...Don't worry NASCAR will change this rule next week and then alter again in a month. That's what they do. 4. Anonymous posted: 07.08.2011 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Micheal Waltrip not making the race is a good thing. He has caused plenty of cautions in the last few years when he races in the cup series. 5. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2011 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem with atarting all the cars that are entered in case of a rainout is that this week, you would have a 48-car starting field. And what would happen if that happened on a short track when, say, 46-50 cars or more are entered? (Remember when 84 cars were entrered for the first Brickyard 400 in 1994, or when 82 cars actually took the green flag for the Southern 500 in 1951, asnd 75 started that race in 1950.) Sure, a number of them would just park after a few laps, but the track would simply be too crowded. A 50-car field for the big races, such as the Daytona 500, Brickyard 400, and the races at Talladega would, frankly, be a good idea, becaus ethose tracks are big enough to handle those size of fields. After all, Daytona and Talladega had fields of those size before. And I'd like to see, say, 44 or 46-car fields for the Coca-Cola Charlotte and the Southern 500 at Darlington. That's only 1-3 more thn what start now at all the races. But I think they should actually contract the fields at the short track races, though the start-and-parks are, in a way, doing that already. 6. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2011 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, doesn't Kyle Busch feel happy that qualifying was washed out, because that puts him on the pole due to practice speeds. After all, he's had to start at he very back for both races so far. He was able to win the Truck race, but that was more because of the failures of his competitors, then his own dominance, and he finished third in the NNS race, but even admitted afterwards that he only got that placing after the fuel strategy went his way. Because he had to start st the back, he's driven conservatively all weekend long. now that he'll start at the front in the Cup race, I think we may finally see the real Kyle Busch, the aggressive version. 7. Cooper posted: 07.08.2011 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "4. Anonymous posted: 07.08.11 - 10:40 pm" I kind of chuckled at this. I feel bad for Darrell Waltrip because Mikey's car was a dedication to him for making the HOF, and Kentucky is Michael's home state. Overall it's a bummer deal for them. But as you said there will be less cautions tomorrow. 8. 00andJoe posted: 07.08.2011 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #3: The *cars that start* are determined by top-35 then number of race attempts with points as tiebreaker. Then, once that is determined, the *starting order* is set by practice times. It's been this way all along, the only change was switching from order-by-points to order-by-practice. 9. Cooper posted: 07.08.2011 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "8. 00andJoe posted: 07.08.11 - 11:30 pm" Thanks. 10. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2011 - 8:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, at least Michael would have tried to run the entire race. The cars that got in via the qualifying rainout over Michael Waltrip (and David Stremme) will only run a few laps and park it. One of the reasons these team start-and-park is to build up qualifying attempts for just this kind of situation. After the last of the cars that make it on practice speed in the rain-out scenario, it goes bypast champions not in the field, followed by winning drivers and winning teams in the last year not already in the race. After that, it goes by number of qualifying ATTEMPTS, not necessarily number of times a team has actually qualified for a race or that team's position in the points standings. So the teams that start-and-park do so to try to get sponsorship, in which case they may try to run the full race, but they also do it to build attempts in case of a qualifying rain-out.. 11. jjwentworth posted: 07.09.2011 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How dare you talk bad about Micheal Waltrip Anonymous. Micheal Waltrip is the best driver there is and not many racers race the way he does so if any of you haten punks dont like the way he races and you think that the only reason the he won was cause ernhart died you better think again cause he beat him a couple of times. 12. Spen posted: 07.09.2011 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I could say something about Mikey here, but I won't. Instead, who do you think's going to win it tonight? I've heard Logano's name tossed around a lot, but I can't see him pulling it off. A top five perhaps, but that's it. And Shrub's been pretty lackluster at the intermedites the last couple of years. Edwards seems a logical choice, but he's had a tendency to not seal the deal all year. So I'm leaning towards Kenseth. Just as good a car as Edwards, and he's been on a bit of a hot streak. Gordon's got a shot, but he's been pretty hit-or-miss on these kind of tracks. 13. Kinetic posted: 07.09.2011 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Based on the testing and practice sessions, I would say the 18, 48, 99, and the 17 are all good choices to win tonight. 14. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.09.2011 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Micheal Waltrip not making the race is a good thing. He has caused plenty of cautions in the last few years when he races in the cup series." I laughed at this when I read it, because it's so true. Anyway... I think going by practice speeds for the lineup is a much better idea than lining up by points since the standings don't in any way reflect what kind of car the teams are going to bring to the track. You could be top 5 in points and totally miss the setup, or not a cha$er and bring a car that flat-out destroys the field. As for predicting a winner, I'll go with Carl Edwards. Tracks like this are the 99 team's forte. If not Carl, then I'll go with possibly Kurt Busch. At a somewhat similar track in Kansas, Kurt dominated before circumstances got in the way. 15. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2011 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TNT has 40 additional microphones around the race track. Hopefully they use these to drown out Adam Alexander. Y'all know me, I can't stand Mikey. But the rule that kept him out of this field is stupid. I don't feel bad for him personally, the less he is a part of the show the better it is for NASCAR, but that rule is dumb. 16. Schroeder51 posted: 07.09.2011 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch will be the winner. Already calling it. 17. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2011 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 100 lap update: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Hopefully it will be better at night. On the plus side, this "enhanced audio", while it sound no different to me, is good because they have AA shut up for a while. 18. Schroeder51 posted: 07.09.2011 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wouldn't that be something if the competition yellow was the only caution of the entire race? 19. 18fan posted: 07.09.2011 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the main difference I've seen is there is much more of the team radios, which in turn means less Adam Alexander. It also doesn't seem like the pit reporters have had a role during the actual stops. I missed the caution flag stops, so that might be just a part of the green flag pit stops. 20. Brad posted: 07.09.2011 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like puting a Cup race at Kentucky was a mistake... I hope I'm wrong but so far this has been the most boring race of the season. Very little racing going on. Just riding around on a Saturday evening drive... 21. Frank posted: 07.09.2011 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "3 hendrick cars are lap down", - said Kyle Petty after 2nd caution. And right after wave-around they throw next ont! I can't rememeber such a shameful pulling up from a lap down! What a shit... 22. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2011 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 200 lap update: Ugh. They took a date from Atlanta for this? Yet another step backwards for NASCAR. Although it is not as big a step back as the Nwide series going from IRP to IMS. 23. New 14&88 Fan posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 36 to go: Not much to talk about, what everyone else said how sad that they took away a date from Atlanta for racing we already see at every other cookie-cutter track.What a crock. 24. 18fan posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Definitely one of the worst races in terms of effect of clean air I've seen in a long time. I hate the wave around, it gifts at least 10 cars per race a lead lap finish and then NASCAR has the balls to say the sport is more competitive than ever because of how many cars finish on the lead lap. There are more lead lap cars because NASCAR gifts 10+ cars per race a spot on the lead lap. 25. 18fan posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Atlanta is one of the few tracks left with character and they take a race away to give it to this crap. Take that Bruton Smith and Jerry Carroll, you bitch for years about not getting a Cup race, you finally get one and it sucks epically. 26. Schroeder51 posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What did I tell you all? 27. 18fan posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about David Reutimann, driving around the outside of Jimmie Johnson when he had only fresh right side tires and Jimmie had four fresh tires. 28. Brad posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) An ok finish does not make up for a horrible race. This was theworst of the season by far. I had high hopes for Kentucky... The worst races this year have been... Texas, Kentucky, Las Vegas and Kansas. See a pattern? This has to stop! Bring back good racing! Wilkesboro, Rock, etc... Come on NASCAR! Pull it together and get your heads outta your asses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 29. V12 Matra posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle owns the field and is backed up by an incredible team and pit crew with the expception of a great drive by Brad. Great win by the 18 bunch. Great crowd but as for the circuit and race itself................... 30. Brad posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh I hate Kyle Busch but congrats to him. He ran a perfect race 31. Kinetic posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race was probably Kyle's best performance of his young career. Dominated early, lost the lead in the 2nd half of the race but patiently bided his time. And held off the best in the business on the last couple of restarts to take it. 32. Schroeder51 posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR, please dump this track and either give the date back to Atlanta or give it to a better track like Iowa. Wait, why do I even bother? NASCAR isn't going to listen to the fans. 33. Brad posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR, please dump this track and either give the date back to Atlanta or give it to a better track like Iowa. Wait, why do I even bother? NASCAR isn't going to listen to the fans. Couldnt have said it better myself! 34. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.09.2011 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be completely honest, the race was...okay...just...okay...not bad, not good, just okay...unfortunately, Kenseth had to botch the second to last restart for pretty much everyone, and then Reutimann couldn't catch up so Kyle Busch made history once more! AMAZING! 35. Cooper posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Newman 4th? Garbage. I could swear that he got like 3 wave arounds. Bad luck and bad driving by BK on the final restarts relegated him to a 7th place finish. Keselowski was the only one who could challenge Rowdy throughout the night. 36. V12 Matra posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thing is though, Bruton Smith will spend millions to improve parking lots, bathrooms and seating before he even bothers to improve the track itself. 37. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to the 18 team for their flogging of the field tonight. But the race was the worst of the year and the worst in a long long time that didn't involve some freak deal (ie Indy '08 and Dega '09). In fact, I can't think of a worse race excluding those two off the top of my head. At least the right team won. Nascar REALLY needs to address these aero issues with the next car. This was awful. 38. Eric posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't want to hear the announce crew at Espn for the Nationwide Wide trying to Hype the crap out Kyle's chance of making history for trying to get his 100th Nascar win in cup, Nationwide, and truck series combined. Boring race. I having a difficult time see this track having this much people in the stands next year. Kyle Busch gets his first win at a track bigger than a mile since Las Vegas in 2009. Kyle Busch is now tied 28th all time on the cup wins list with Terry Labonte with 22 wins. 39. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently my last comment didn't go through for some odd reason, I'll lol if it goes up sometime later, so I'll just post this one instead. To everyone who says this race was the worst this year, go back and watch half of the races this season and come back to me. This was honestly the most average race this season, some decent racing from time to time which unfortunately had to be buzzkilled with Kyle Busch "making history" once again! 40. Cooper posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Someone needs to blame Goodyear. (Where's Tony Stewart when you need him?). They keep bringing hard compound tires to the racetrack, when the fans and teams want soft tires. It's not right when the drop off between lap 1 and lap 50 is less than a second. It's just ridiculous. If they bring a softer tire, then there would be more action as cars would deteriorate in a long run. Remember places like Darlington and Rockingham? The reason these tracks were so fun, was because the tires would wear out in 5 laps. The teams would have to setup their cars to be fast either in the short run or long run. So either NASCAR needs to let these tracks wear out, or Goodyear needs to bring a soft tire. It's not all aerodynamics and mechanically related either. The COT has absolutely destroyed any individualism teams had with their race cars. Everyone has been put into this box where you have to run a spec setup, which of course makes everyone run the same speed. NASCAR needs to give teams more freedom when it comes to their race cars. If you want to run a 45 degree spoiler instead of 70, then let them. If you want to run maximum camber, then let them. Just my two cents. 41. 00andJoe posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm probably going to be the exception here, but...I actually rather liked the track and race. *shrugs* 42. 18fan posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski had only led 110 laps in his entire career before tonight, where he led 79 and for a long time looked like he was going to win the race. Kyle Busch becomes the first driver to lead 1,000 laps led this season, leading 125+ laps for the fifth time this year and led the most laps for the 4th time. He also equaled his totals from last year with his 3rd win and 10th top 5. I thought it was funny when they played Kyle's radio after the race and he said "Great job David Reutimann" considering what he said about David after Bristol last year. Jimmie Johnson admitted to not seeing the white flag in his third place finish, which is about how good his car was all night. Kurt Busch and Brad Keselowski both faded badly on the last couple of restarts while Ryan Newman and Carl Edwards made huge gains. 43. BON GORDON posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Missed the race cuz of work but it sounds like Kyle Busch dominated and the race was just okay to below par. How was Jeff Gordon, he finished 10th but how bad did he run? 44. 18fan posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with Cooper on the fact that hard tires are terrible. That also adds to something a driver has to consider is too not run his tires off early in a run and suffer late in a run. That's what makes Atlanta so fun. 45. 18fan posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, Jeff ran terribly all night and had a couple cautions fall his way and he made some great progress on the two late race restarts. 46. potatosalad48 posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fair race, but it seemed like the aero problems prevented a lot of side by side racing 47. RaceFanX posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kentucky Speedway becomes the first new track on the Cup schedule since Kansas and Chicagoland were added in 2001. Jamie McMurray had one of the biggest engine failures in quite a while. The motor in the red McDonald's #1 let go headed into turn 1 and let off a ton of smoke including pouring a ton into the cockpit. The smoke was so heavy that McMurray stopped his car on the track in turn 2 because he couldn't see anything and was afraid he'd hit something or someone. Brad Keselowski had a great run despite losing his radio. His team prepared and with pre-race emergency planning and hand signals they still earned a top-10 and had one of the best cars on the night. Kyle Busch had announced an attempt at the "Trifecta" for this weekend and started well by winning the Truck series race. His bid ended when he lost the Nationwide series race to Keselowski the night before this one. Ironically he and Keselowski battled for the win throughout this one before Rowdy prevailed. 48. 00andJoe posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #37 sponsor: Black Cat Fireworks 49. Rusty posted: 07.09.2011 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The first ever Cup race at Kentucky, and it is a disaster. Many fans who purchased tickets were turned away due to the lack of parking (Seriously? How does this happen?) and there are reports of a riot going outside of the track with the National Guard trying to calm the situation down. The actual racing, not very good. Whoever got the lead on the restart really just ran away with it. Kurt Busch did it on the start for the first 30 laps, Kyle Busch did it for most of the night and Brad Keselowski did it after using some strategy to get track position. Just not a good race. 50. Watto posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The problem with atarting all the cars that are entered in case of a rainout is that this week, you would have a 48-car starting field." cjs - I think he was saying to set all the cars in the starting lineup by practice speeds, not actually start ALL the cars. 51. dUDE gUY posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Reutimann posts his first top five of the year, and only his second top ten. Keselowski led 79 laps, the most he has lead in a Cup series race. Ryan Newman gets his best finish of the year. Jeff Gordon barely squeaks out a top ten effort, despite being lapped early. Pretty decent race. Nothing too special, but nothing too bad either. Just another 1.5 miler. 52. Anonymous posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) all racetracks that have corner speeds up over 140 to 150mph need a groove 4 to 6 lanes wide, that way a car in traffic can actually get to the front and the guy who wins the race off pit road doesn't check out on the field, racetracks also need old bumpy pavement, then the cars slide around, then the track has character, tires get eaten, i'm sick of any crew chief putting 2 tires or fuel only on any car and then checking out, it's not a gamble if the time you gain in the pits you don't lose on the track. Atlanta, Rockingham, Darlington, Phoenix, and Fontana are good tracks, fast cars come to the front regardless of starting position, tracks like Las Vegas and Kentucky are awful because of the aero-push, and lack of tire wear, races are won completely on pit road, the way the come off pit road the final time is the way they finish, if the fastest car gets stuck in 15th during the race he finishes 15th, if a 20th place car takes 2 tires and gets the lead, he gaps 2nd place by 3 seconds in 10 laps nascar needs to stop repaving tracks aswell, they're ruining pheonix & michigan as i type, daytona & talladega are ruined, darlington is ruined, they may as well take all the grandstands at bristol and put them at martinsville, Go back to Rockingham, North Wilksboro, and more road courses, and f**k the chase 53. Anonymous posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 90% of the 20 lead changes were during green flag pit stops, cautions, or right after a restart, Kentucky is one and done as far as i'm concerned 54. BON GORDON posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I was afraid that Gordon wouldn't run too well. Glad to see he was able to still salvage a Top 10 out of what appeared to be a terrible evening for him. That win at Pocono really motivated him to be more consistent, but that still wont win him another championship. Im satisfied if he finishes in the Top Ten in Points every season as long as he wins some races. It looks like he'll manage to do both this year. 55. Anonymous posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) bill france sr & jr built a great sport, its a shame that bruton smith and brian france have their hearts set on ruining it 56. Anonymous85 posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One of the biggest problems with NASCAR is there is virtually a lack of leadership in this organization. The people in charge of NASCAR dont have a clue about what there doing 57. Eric posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch already has as many 5's this season as he did for the entire season of 2010. 58. 18fan posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junior's luck has been horrible lately. Taken out in a crash not of his making at Sonoma, caught up in the last lap big one at Daytona, and a blown tire today. 59. V12 Matra posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I dont think he will pull it off in the end (either Edwards or Johnson I think), but Kyle has a really good chance at the Championship this year. Seems to be more of a consistent driver from race to race when compared to years past, even his great 2008 season seemed to either be a dominating win, horrible run or crash. 60. Red posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Further proof that the first 80% of the race means absolutely nothing in today's NASCAR. Over half the field was a lap down after a 100+ lap green flag run, but God forbid we actually let a race play out naturally. So out comes the ever-predictable debris caution, 15 cars take the wave-around, and the first half of the race is rendered completely meaningless. As always. I'm sorry to keep complaining about this, but I want drivers to EARN their finish, not have it handed to them by NASCAR's welfare system. Maybe I should just save myself the trouble and only watch the last 20 laps while pretending the rest of the race never happened. 61. RACE34 posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know it isn't always the tracks fault for bland racing it is the COT's fault don't blame the tracks if we had the old car we wouldn't be having this conversation! 62. Phat posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Should be called 'The Cluster f**k 400' 63. irony posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This track is too wide I think. The field gets spread out faster the bigger the track is. Kyle's track time benefited him I think. Two consecutive mystery cautions. Jr and his crew chief had a funny exchange when Jr asked him who blew up on the caution for "oil". 64. BON GORDON posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well just because 80% of the race is done doesnt mean anything. Sry red i just dont agree with you. Lets take jeff gordon for instance. Junk car most of the race, got his lap back and had to work his butt off for tenth. He earned that tenth. Drivers that run up front should stay up front. If the strategy doesnt work out oh well, thats ashame. Everyone gets screwed and the lucky dog is here to stay. We are going to have bad tracks like this one and the so called fans need to get over it. Well i dont like it boo hoo...Too bad watch formula 1 or the golden girls i dont care but everyone on this site really needs to grow up and stop complaining. Its the truth. Discuss the race itself, dont give your opinions anymore. Im sick of it and so is NASCAR. I dont care how long youve been watching it or how great the racing was 15 years ago. There are more important things in the world to worry about. Yeah people are gonna complain but umm i dont care. Off to New Hampshire. Go Big Daddy. 65. BON GORDON posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And i truly do love NASCAR and im just flad we live in such a great country were we can enjoy things like auto racing. Thats whats important. 66. Red posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Discuss the race itself, dont give your opinions anymore." Because nobody should ever share their opinions while having a discussion. 67. Red posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyway, BON GORDON, I disagree that Jeff earned his 10th place finish. As you even admitted, he was junk most of the race, falling a lap down because his car was so slow. Tell me again how Jeff "earned" his lap back? Did he pass the leader under green? No. NASCAR handed it to him when they decided to bunch up the field with a phony debris caution. He didn't earn jack. Imagine if the halftime score at the Super Bowl was 28-0, then the NFL decided to give the trailing team 24 free points just to keep the game close. That's what NASCAR does every single week. 68. 18fan posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) They threw a caution for "oil" after one car just got loose in the middle of a corner, which is a common occurrence in racing. 69. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a snoozefest, if something doesn't change within the cars when they come here there will only be repeats of this race. Watching the first 200 laps was flat out boring. "Bad luck and bad driving by BK on the final restarts relegated him to a 7th place finish." It also didn't help that he kept getting stuck behind Kenseth (who kept losing his shit whenever Brad was around him causing both to lose momentum) for both of the last two restarts. He should have had a top 5 to show for the race he ran tonight. But congrats to Kyle and the 18 team for getting the hold on this track their first time out. Teams will likely attempt to try matching their setup for this race. I was way off on my predictions for this win. Kurt led 41 laps but had to settle for 9th, while Carl finished 5th (never leading a lap). 70. RACE34 posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "BON GORDON" I agree with your comment more than anyone else on this sight! 71. BON GORDON posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Um wrongo red. He earned 10th place, its in the record books. Thats ashame. Nascar didnt hand him anything. He couldve just plowed the thing into wall. He took a 22nd place car that was a lap down, got his lap back and drove foward to where he got a top 10. And im sick of negative opinions, complain about something else. Opinions get old when its the same thing every week. Its not gonna change so be quiet and keep your opinions to yourself....negative nancy. 72. BON GORDON posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And that was a stupid analogy. I would like to complain about your NFL analogy please. I hope that Nascar gives gordon an extra three laps next week before the race starts. If he blows an engine let him get his back up car out and let him go on the track and pretend he never lost any laps. Hell Nascar give him the win now. Red thats enough bologna from you today. 73. Blue posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gotta love Kentucky. 74. 00andJoe posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You know it isn't always the tracks fault for bland racing it is the COT's fault don't blame the tracks if we had the old car we wouldn't be having this conversation!" Funny how it was the "old car" that resulted in the infamous "rules change every week"...and had -worse- aero-push than the CoT does... Short memories, fans have. Rose-colored nostiaglasses, too. 75. 00andJoe posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner standings by highest finishing team car: 1. Roush, 749 2. Gibbs, 734 3. Hendrick, 725 4. Childress, 704 5. Penske, 643 6. Stewart-Haas, 605 7. Petty, 586 8. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 563 9. Red Bull, 562 10. Michael Waltrip, 523 11. Furniture Row, 399 12. JTG-Daughtery, 363 13. Front Row, 349 14. Phoenix, 312 15. Stoddard, 261 --. Baldwin, 261 --. Germain, 261 18. Robby Gordon, 221 19. TRG, 214 20. Wood Brothers, 204 21. Gunselman, 132 22. Whitney, 92 23. NEMCO, 67 24. HP, 64 25. Inception, 27 26. Rusty Wallace, 24 27. Leavine, 14 28. Falk, 11 29. K-Automotive, 9 76. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.10.2011 - 4:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They threw a caution for "oil" after one car just got loose in the middle of a corner, which is a common occurrence in racing." Uh, no it isn't. Most other types of racing will just leave the oil there and tell the drivers to go around it. 77. KBM18 posted: 07.10.2011 - 6:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was at this race, and had a great time watching it. Everyone else is just jealous. Sometimes a driver just puts a spanking on the field. It's just a shame NASCAR's charity rules allowed so much of Busch's work to be undone. But I thought the racing itself was just fine. However, everything outside of the track was a debacle. The state of Kentucky can be nuked into a crater for all I care. Biggest bunch of incompetent lazy police officers and terrible selfish (civilian) drivers I've ever seen. And the track was so unprepared for this race, I'm tempted to say it doesn't deserve the opportunity to ever put on another. I won't be back, and if the words and anger of thousands upon thousands of others are any indication, neither will they. Don't expect a sellout next year. They don't deserve one. Just read the articles online, this was probably the most botched major sporting event in decades. And there are just too many other NASCAR options within a reasonable distance from here. I could get to Indy, Bristol and Chicago in less time than I spent just in stopped traffic, only a few miles from the track. Add another hour to that time and I can also get to Richmond. That's 6 other cup races I can get to in the amount of time I spent in a car, waiting to get into the track, and waiting to get out. You failed us race fans, Kentucky. You failed us so bad that we won't be back. You clamored for so long to join the big time, and when you finally do, you failed in nearly every way imaginable. Your track officials and police officers should be ashamed. I'm glad I got to see Busch win this race, but next year I'm heading elsewhere. Did you guys know you can't bring a cooler into Kentucky Speedway? You were allowed 1, unopened, 20 oz. bottle of water. Just water, and if it was opened, you had to toss it. And their concession prices were unbelievable. The word "gouging" doesn't do them justice. I thought racing was supposed to be family friendly. Well, you aren't winning over any families by making them wait 5 hours to get in, 7 hours to get out, and forcing them to pay outrageous concession prices just so they can stay hydrated in the hot Kentucky summer sun. Ugh. Sorry, all these negative things are making me forget the experience in your seats at this track was actually pretty darn good. That gets a solid B+, maybe A-. Everything else: F---. That's right, the rarely used F minus minus minus. I'll see you in hell Bruton Smith and track manager Mark Simendinger. You are liars and cheats. You better refund double what those people you turned away paid for those tickets. Can you imagine, waiting 6 to 8 hours to get to the track, only to be turned away? That was the experience thousands of people had here this weekend. And then to add insult to injury, they get stuck in traffic on the way back out too. Pathetic. 78. NazRacePhan posted: 07.10.2011 - 7:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) For those complaining about the BORING race..... if you look at the season thus far..... pretty much EVERY SINGLE RACE has been a snoozefest until the final 20-30 laps..... Just Run cup dirt style---some heat races for qualifying, a last chance race, then just a 30-lap feature... 79. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing about the race, which I didn't watch, is that, if everything said is true, there is one ingredient that prohibited actual racing that doesn't seem to be mentioned, and that is the horrible condition that the track itself is in. That's why certain tracks need to be oaved after 10 years or so. I did watch the Nationwdie and Truck series races this weekend (on tv, of course), and there really wasn't a whole lot of side-by-side racing taking place, and that was because the condition of the track was absoluetly terrible. The moguls (and that's what I'm calling them) were so bad that it prevented side-by-side racing, because when a car would get beside another,it would hit one of those moguls, which would throw the car sideways. And let's not forget what happened to Austin Dillon in the Truck race, when his hood flew up into the windshield, totally blinding him. That was directly track-related. As for all the cars getting the "wave-around", there is really nothing to prevent that, unlesss NASCAR does what I once suggested (which was fairly shot down by another poster), and line up the cars that don't pit under caution behind the lead lap cars in the same lap they were in when the caution came out. That's the only way to stop the "wave around", because the premise of that rule is to allow the leader to always be the first to see the green flag on every restart, which is a good idea, one that IndyCar (then the IRL) came up with in about 2000 to make sure the leader was the first to see the green flag for restarts. Also, making it so that the leader sees the green flag first makes it a lot less confusing and a lot less dangerous for the leaders than starting them in the middle of the pack when cars that had been lapped don't pit. How many times did we see the leaders wind up in a wreck due to overzealous driving of those trying to stay on the lead lap? Quite a few, as the records indicate. (By far, the worst such incident took place in the June 2004 race at Dover, the same race in which Kasey Kahne and about five others spun in oil droppped from Casey Mears' car, when Kahne was heading to an apparent easy victory.) I actually remember a 24 Hours of Daytona not too many years ago in which a car gained 8-10 laps that it was behind simply by taking "wave arounds". 80. Cooper posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "77. KBM18 posted: 07.10.11 - 6:05 am" Greatest comment of all-time. A plus plus plus. 81. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, as far as Rick Hendrick is concerned, Kasey Kahne can't get in that #5 car soon enough, as Mark Martin had another uncompetitve race, though all of Hendrick Motorsports, except for Jimmie Johnson (no surprise) were uncompetitve. In fact, judging by the results, Johnson's was the only Chevrolet that was competitve. 82. Jimmie Johnson The King of Kings posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The legend of all legends is passed at the flag, losing out on 2nd,if only his majesty had known he was taking the white flag he would've won. This race means nothing, his majesty will win the Crown again even if Talladega is his only win. 83. 18fan posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant that a car getting loose in the middle of a corner is a common occurrence, not that a caution for one car hitting oil and bringing out a caution is a common occurrence. 84. BON GORDON posted: 07.10.2011 - 10:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you wanna watch a snoozefest watch most of the old races from the 60s and 70s. About 2-3 guys that even have a chance to win, hardly any passes for the lead, and a huge margin of victory. When i would watch those back in the day shows on speed i would be kinda bored. I mean it was cool to see the old cars and the old drivers race but ill take new nascar personally. No driver is going to be dumb enough to lay it all on the table early. I would wait till the end of the race and show what i got. I think the racing is very good this year. 85. 00andJoe posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #83 - Exactly what I've thought all along. While it's true the "aero push" makes it very difficult to pass and didn't used to, back in the day when it was easier aerodynamically to pass, it was harder to pass competition-wise... 86. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a statistic that pretty much backs up my statement in post #81 about the Chevrolets being uncompetitve in last night's race. Landon Cassill (that's right), with 2, that's right, TWO, led more laps than any Chevrolet driver in the race. Only two other Chevrolet drivers, Tony Stewart and J.J. Yeley, a start-and-park driver, even led one lap in the event. Cassill led his laps during a period of green flag pit stops, while Stewart and Yeley led their respective single laps under caution by staying out an extra lap and getting the extra championship point that's available for leading a lap. Oddly enough, the lap that Stewart led was also enough to tie Jimmie Johnson for 12th on the all-time list with 11,469 laps in the lead. Next up is Mark Martin (11th) with 12,531 laps led and Junior Johnson (10th) with 12,651 laps led. (Those figures are courtesy of racingreference.info.) And that extra point Stewart gained by staying out that extra lap during the third caution period could prove vital before the 26th race, the fall race at Richmond, is over. By the way, for those that say the competition caution is unnecessary, I disagree. NASCAR is always going to caution on the side of safety where potential tire problems could be involved. This actually goes bak to the spring race at Atlanta way back in 1992, when there was a problem with tires blistering, and NASCAR brought out the caution two or three times, just so that teams could change tires, especially after Ken Schrader crashed in that event due to a blown tire. That was a move applauded by those calling that race for ABC Sports, Paul Page, Benny Parsons, and Bobby Unser, who was especially complimentary in his praise of that particular move. So the competition cautions to allow for tire changes have been around a lot longer than most people think, but that spring race in Atlanta in 1992 was, to my knowledge, the first use of it in modern times. 87. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It also doesn't help the racing if the track in such bad condition that you can't really race on it. Keep that in mind. (Read the first part of post #79 to get the full scoop on that.) And 18fan, if NASCAR suspects in the slightest that there is oil on the track, they MUST throw the caution flag. Look at the June race at Dover in 2004, when not throwing the caution when there was oil on the track cost Kasey Kahne an obvious win, as well caused three or four other cars to needlessly wreck, as well as the 1980 Southern 500, when the three leaders (David Pearson, Dale Earnhardt, and Benny Parsons) crashed because they hit oil, as examples of what can happen when there is oil on the track. 88. Eric posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) V12 Matra, I really can't say Kyle has a good chance of winning a championship this year despite being more consistent driver this year. It goes down to 3 things. Kyle's track record at mile and half tracks that are chase tracks if you take away Charlotte and Texas Motor Speedway. Chicagoland, Kansas, and Homestead are bad tracks for him despite having a win at Chicagoland. Kyle only has 1 win 2 top 5 and 4 top 10's at those three track combined for his entire cup career. The 2nd problem is Kyle has issues finishing in the top 10 at Talladega despite having a win. Kyle only has 2 top 10's there in 13 starts. The 3rd problem is the chase schedule doesn't play into Kyle's hands. Almost 73 percent of Kyle's career cup wins comes from tracks that are not in the chase. I found that out using excel. 16 out of his 22 career cup wins came from tracks that are not on the chase schedule matter of fact including 5 from Bristol. Kyle has good track in the chase for him like Dover, Phoenix, Martinsville,New Hampshire Motor Speedway, Charlotte, and Texas Motor Speedway.The catch is at those tracks he only has 4 career cup wins combine with 2 of them at Dover. 89. Eric posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) KBM18, It is a shame what you had to experience outside of the racing while you were at the tack. I agree with you that the track will not be a sell out again. There is no excuse for traffic problem since the track had sold out Nationwide races for years. 90. Bronco posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not sure why everyone is complaining about this race, it was exactly what was expected - simply another race at a 1.5 mile track where clean air prevails, lots of long green flag runs, good cars going a lap down, and where one car establishes itself as the one to beat and pulls of the win at the end. First time the Cup series has visited a new venue since Kansas in September 2001. The difference is that Kansas and Chicago were all new in 2001, while Kentucky has already hosted plenty of Truck and Nationwide events already. Without a question, Dale Jr has the worst luck of any driver in the past month. It started when he got pinched into the wall by Mark at Michigan, caught up in a very costly wreck at Sonoma, wrecked while running in the top 10 at Daytona, and cutting a tire after making a pit stop at Kentucky. I think he will rebound with a top 5 finish at New Hampshire since he was good there even the last two years, but it has been tough to watch. This is Kyle's first win at a 1.5 mile track since Las Vegas 2009. In the past two years he has won races only at Bristol, Richmond and Dover. 91. c2 posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch ties Terry Labonte in Cup wins with 22, the pre-race show had a Terry Labonte pride of nascar interview too, fitting. 92. Red posted: 07.10.2011 - 12:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Line up the cars that don't pit under caution behind the lead lap cars in the same lap they were in when the caution came out." cjs3872, that is a great idea. I like the double-file restarts, and I like having the leader always taking the green flag. NASCAR could keep those rules in place without giving the lapped cars any unnecessary advantage, by doing exactly what you suggested. And honestly, since the wave-around probably won't change anytime soon, it would be nice if someone kept track of which drivers took the wave-around in each race, just as a reference. People already keep track of lucky dogs, so it could be done. Bronco - I agree with you that this race wasn't any worse than the typical 1.5-mile races. It was better than what we normally see at Charlotte or Chicago. 93. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't want to hear the announce crew at Espn for the Nationwide Wide trying to Hype the crap out Kyle's chance of making history for trying to get his 100th Nascar win in cup, Nationwide, and truck series combined." I don't want to hear it either, but we may as well get ready for it. Even if less than 1/4 of those wins will be Cup wins. I just don't get it. He is having an outstanding Cup career. 22 wins in 6 and 1/2 years. At age 26. Why do they have to make it sound better by using artificial numbers? It's good. Sure his cha$e runs have ranged from disappointing to What The Hell? and I honestly expect the same this year, but he is good. Leave it at that. "Remember places like Darlington and Rockingham? The reason these tracks were so fun, was because the tires would wear out in 5 laps. The teams would have to setup their cars to be fast either in the short run or long run. So either NASCAR needs to let these tracks wear out, or Goodyear needs to bring a soft tire." Amen. "Kyle Busch had announced an attempt at the "Trifecta" for this weekend" That is why I'm still not sold on "Kyle Busch: Championship Threat" yet. When he stops worrying so much about the minor leagues, and stops emotionally exausting himself over the first 8 months of the season, then I'll consider it. Shame because he is the most talented driver out there in top notch equipment. "Many fans who purchased tickets were turned away due to the lack of parking (Seriously? How does this happen?)" That is pathetic. I was wondering why they sold out of tickets, yet the stands were only about 80% full. It'll be interesting to see how many people come back next year. "Go back to Rockingham, North Wilksboro, and more road courses, and f**k the chase" I couldn't have said it better myself. "One of the biggest problems with NASCAR is there is virtually a lack of leadership in this organization. The people in charge of NASCAR dont have a clue about what there doing" I agree 100%. They just don't understand racing fans and what made us fall in love with this sport. We want competitive racing. And by that, I mean I want cars to be able to race each other for positions often. I don't care how many cars finish on the lead lap. NASCAR likes to point out that 30 cars routinely finish on the lead lap and say "See, 30 cars could've won, in the past only 2 or 3 cars would finish on the lead lap". I don't give a rat's ass. At least the 3 and 1/2 hours leading to the finish were fun to watch. We want RACING. For once, I'm actually gonna agree with Dale Jr. Good competitive racing is what will drive the sport. "Should be called 'The Cluster f**k 400'" That would be the '08 Brickyard 400. This race was the "We Waited 11 Years For This And Horribly Embarrassed Ourselves 400" "Everyone else is just jealous. Sometimes a driver just puts a spanking on the field." Nobody is begrudging Kyle for his win (for once). The best team won this race, we just hate how crappy the race was. "The state of Kentucky can be nuked into a crater for all I care." Lol. I've had similar feelings towards the state of North Carolina after some of the Charlotte races I went to. AND I LIVE IN NORTH CAROLINA!!! "Did you guys know you can't bring a cooler into Kentucky Speedway? You were allowed 1, unopened, 20 oz. bottle of water. Just water, and if it was opened, you had to toss it. And their concession prices were unbelievable. The word "gouging" doesn't do them justice. I thought racing was supposed to be family friendly. Well, you aren't winning over any families by making them wait 5 hours to get in, 7 hours to get out, and forcing them to pay outrageous concession prices just so they can stay hydrated in the hot Kentucky summer sun." The things you mentioned are a huge reason attendance is in a free fall. The ticket prices are outrageous and they make things miserable for you once you are there. The things you said remind me a lot of going to a race at Charlotte Motor Speedway, another SMI facility. We would park a good 3 miles from the track because it takes less time to walk there and back and not fight traffic than parking next to the track and sitting there for eternity. This why I don't go to Charlotte races anymore even though the track is a little more than 1 hour from where I live, and I have been offered free tickets. My suggestion to you: Go to Martinsville. I'm not sure where that is in relation to where you live, but that is probably the most fan friendly place on the circuit, especially now that they have improved the restrooms. The tickets are not outrageous, nor are the concessions. Traffic isn't too bad since only about 60,000 people go there since it is in the middle of nowhere. The view of the mountains is beautiful and the racing is outstanding. It is right in front of you too. But I agree with Cooper, your post gets an A+++ "This race means nothing, his majesty will win the Crown again even if Talladega is his only win." Lol. Dega won't be his only win, he'll win at least 3 cha$e races, and he will win it all again. Once again they are starting to heat up at the exact right time. This night undoubtably belonged to Kyle Busch, but big picture, this will probably mark the beginning of his 6th straight title run. Eric: The problem isn't so much the tracks in the cha$e, it is Kyle's inability to perform like he's capable of in the last 10 races. I think it comes down to these two things: 1) He can't handle the pressure. Once things start to go wrong, he throws in the towel because he doesn't have the mindset to overcome adversity when it truly matters. Look at '08. Yeah, he had 3 straight mechanical issues to start the cha$e, but after that, he produced nothing after winning 8 of the first 22 races. He just mentally shut it off. Last year, in the 4th cha$e race, he announced they were done already after blowing an engine. 2) He wears himself out mentally. A good example of this is '09. He missed the cha$e, so with no pressure, I expected him to light it up in those last 10. He didn't. He had nothing left in the tank for those last 10 long, difficult Cup races. He has never won a race as a cha$er, only won once in the last 10 races (his rookie year), and just doesn't do well when the heat is on. JJ is gonna devour him again. 94. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, I wholeheartedly agree. And to think people thought last years fall race at Richmond was good, I thought this would be right up their alley, except this was BETTER! 95. Anonymous85 posted: 07.10.2011 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: The lack of leadership is one of the many many things that killed WCW 96. 18fan posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I know the track has absolutely atrocious racing, but California Speedway is actually a nice place to watch a race. It has nice big parking lots, they are easy to get in and out of, the food is good and the views are good from the stands. If it wasn't in the middle of nowhere and had better racing its crowds would probably be better. 97. RACE34 posted: 07.10.2011 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe you seem to know what your talking about excuse me for my short memory! 98. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing is, based on the two preliminary races that I saw, not only did you have the usual aero-dependent racing that you always see on these high speed tracks, which by the way, isn't ever going away, but you combine that with a track so bad you couldn't race on because of the moguls, and you get a terrible race, because nobody can race like they want to. The track and aero conditions won't allow it. The fact that Kyle Busch, of all people, drove two conservative races, the Truck and NNS races, should say it right there. If the most aggressive driver in the entire sport has to drive conservatively, that says that there are problems with the track. A lot of people compre this to the '08 Brickyard 400, because of the tire catastrophe that happened that day, but at least the track was raceable. That day, it was the tires. I would compare this closer to the Charlotte races of 2005, just without the crashes. In Charlotte that year, you had bad tires, a bad track, which actually started to come apart in the 600, and the cars going too fast, which led to 36 cautions in the two races there that year. At least in this race, the tires were good. If they weren't, you would have a situation similar to the Indy debacle in 2008, as well as the Charlotte fiascos of 2005, where the officials actually considered pulling he plug on the fall race before it ended because of the terrible conditions. But as for the aero conditions, nothing, and I mean nothing, will ever make that go away. the only thing that may help is to give the cars MORE downforce, espscially in the front, not less as drivers such as Carl Edwards has said. Less downforce will make the racing even worse. And the series goes to Indy at the end of the month, where the aero-push problems began in 1995. They absolutely MUST repave the track at Kentucky to make the racing better. Strangely, I'm not sure they need to repave the tracks at Michigan and Kansas quite yet, but I understand why they're doing it. They want to be pro-active against what happened in last year's Daytona 500, preventing it from happeneing at their facilities, since neither Kansas or Michigan have any lighting. At least there is lighting at Daytona. After all, there's a reason the Indianapolis Motor Speedway is repaved every 8-12 years, and that's to keep from ever risking having the track come apart during a race. 99. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing I forgot to mention in my last post, and that is that the track was so unraceable, that there was only one caution for an incident the entire race, and that occurred five or six laps from it's completion. Normally, you don't see races like that, unless there's something very wrong, and this time, it was the track that was the problem, not the track, and not aerodynamics, though that tends to sanitize the racing as well. Because if you have a bad track, the drivers won't be able to race hard, and hard racing leads to incidents. 100. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And 18fan, the reason it's easier to get out of Auto Club Speedway is because it's near the I-10/I-15 interchange, allowing access to Los Angeles (I-10 West), San Diego and even Mexico (I-15 South), Palm Springs and Indio (I-10 East), and Las Vegas (I-15 North), so there are major destinations for everyone to get to from the speedway there to travel in all directions, plus Los Angeles has the most expansive freeway/highway system in the entire country. I know from having lived in Southern California for 31 years. 101. 18fan posted: 07.10.2011 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, if you add I-210 in there, which is the way I go to the track, there are many different ways to get out, which makes it virtually impossible for the debacle that occurred in this race to occur at Auto Club. 102. Rene posted: 07.10.2011 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you didn't like yesterday night's boring parade at Kentucky (no, I don't mean the traffic jam getting out of there), I hope you checked out today's Indy Car race from Toronto. A lot of beatin' and bangin' from cars that weren't designed for that purpose. :) 103. IglooRacer posted: 07.10.2011 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I knew Kyle was gonna win this one, just a huge gut feeling. Nothing spectacular happened this race, only 1 crash and that was Clint bowyer wrecking all alone. I'll attempt to add on to what cjs said earlier said in post 99, this track to me is really technical due to all the bumps and fairly flat corners. Too me that leads to uneventful races (not gonna use boring cuz there was some good racing at times, I was using racebuddy lol) watching this reminded of the old homestead layout. 104. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.10.2011 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All I was saying is, Kentucky isn't going to last long on the Cup schedule if they keep producing races like this, especially if there is indeed a drop in attendance next year. "I don't want to hear it either, but we may as well get ready for it. Even if less than 1/4 of those wins will be Cup wins. I just don't get it. He is having an outstanding Cup career. 22 wins in 6 and 1/2 years. At age 26. Why do they have to make it sound better by using artificial numbers? It's good. Sure his cha$e runs have ranged from disappointing to What The Hell? and I honestly expect the same this year, but he is good. Leave it at that." That's exactly right. The way his career is going now, it will only be a matter of time before he will have the statistics in Cup alone to be compared to past drivers. Of course people like ESPN will likely still talk about how many races he has won in all three NASCAR series versus other drivers who had the majority of their success in Cup. Another thing that can be said in his favor is that because of his wicked talent, he was able to begin racing in Cup full-time with Hendrick Motorsports at only age 19. Most drivers don't begin their Cup careers until around age 25 or so. Because of this, he has the great stats he does at only 26 years old. I think once Kyle decides to put his primary focus on Cup, his cha$e performances might be better. After all, there's only one way for him to go in that category and that is up. "The things you mentioned are a huge reason attendance is in a free fall. The ticket prices are outrageous and they make things miserable for you once you are there." If this is true, then it's no wonder there has been a drop in attendance at a lot of tracks. 105. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2011 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The SMI tracks seem to be the worst. I'm glad Fontana is fan friendly. But all Bruton seems to care about is appearances. They may look beautiful, but the racing is crap. And if it isn't crap, then he turns it to crap. They ruined a somewhat interesting Charlotte in '05: they tried to ruin Atlanta by putting in a generic dogleg, but lucked out with whatever asphault composition they used which wore quickly and became the new Rockingham. They spent $millions on Texas after '98 but the racing there never improved. They ruined Sears Point by taking out the carosel. They completely re-did Vegas and made racing there even worse which I didn't think was possible. And of course the tragedy of Bristol. What I'm trying to say is this: SMI sucks. 106. 18fan posted: 07.10.2011 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @DSFF, Totally agree. Don't forget that Bruton Smith was one of the main reasons North Wilkesboro was taken off the schedule because he and Bob Bahre both bought half of the track, Bruton took one date to Texas and Bahre took the other date to New Hampshire(Pretty much the only SMI track that hasn't been changed at all). 107. JP88 posted: 07.10.2011 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Kyle and the #18 team...they dominated from the moment the got off the truck for testing on Thursday. Brad K. had a great run and a dissapointing finish...and David Ragan is proving that he isn't a fluke and is 15th in points. With Brad just outside of the top 20 in 21st, the chase is about to get interesting for guys like Bowyer, Biffle, and Stewart who don't have a win. Jr. can't wait till the races are on ESPN...he's had horrible luck in the last 3 races...who blows a tire coming out of pit road??? Just like I thought I feared this would happen and he would miss the chase...I would be dissapointed. And boy what's the deal with McMurray and that #1 team. He's blown like 4 motors this year and Jamie's just having horrendous luck. 108. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, you have to get onto I-15 to get to I-210 came into existence not too many years ago. And Iglooracer, the problem with Kentucky is that it's so bumpy (and I call the bumps moguls for that reason), that it's dangerous, as Austin Dillon caoul probably tell you. Bumps on a track aren't all bad, because they do add personality to the track, but a track too bumpy, like Kentucky is, and like Auto Club Speedway is on the backstretch, and like Daytona was before it came apart in turn two, forcing it to be repaved, is dangerous. They've had to do so much to the surface at Kentucky, that I'm surprised that it hasn't started to come up during races already. As for what Bruton Smith, who is an airhead in my book almost to the same level as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, did to Atlanta, it was a masterpiece. the first race with the new surface in 1997 featured a three-wide photo finish in an ARCA race, and it's gotten better from there. Sure, there were growing pains with the new surface, but that's normal for any track that has been repaved. The grounding at Charlotte was as much humpy Wheeler's idea as it was Smith's, as that was a catastrophe. Their shortening the track at Sonoma was done to make the cars go by the fans in the stands more often, so I have no problem with that (the race expanded from 74 laps to 112, as a result, though it has since been cut back to 110). As for what they did at Bristol. Well, they finally made it an actual race track, where you can actually race somebody, instead of a home for glorified demolition derbies. In fact, Kasey Kahne won the first NNS race there after the reconfiguring of the track with a three-wide outside pass, and the racing there has been about the same quality as that ever since, since you can actually run both on the bottom of the track, as well as the top of the track, which was impossible before the reconfiguring. The night race at Bristol was neutered prior to that anyway, due to the Chase, as it was the third-to-last race before the Chase field was set, any nobody wanted to wreck anyone that could contend for the Chase, possibly under NASCAR's instructions. And SMI discovered they had problems at Texas, so they did something about it, and it has also become a track where you can race high or low. They also put in variable banking at Las Vegas, making it a bedtter track to race on. So expect Smith and SMI to make major improvements to Kentucky, starting with better traffic flow going into and out of the track, and then with a repaving, as well as SAFER barriers on the inside wall. It all won't come immediately, nothing does, but expect those things to get done in the next five years. So for those that don't think Bruton Smith has improved the quality of racing at his tracks, I'd say you should actually watch the races before making such obviously dumb statements. There may be a lack of competitve racing at his tracks, but Smith is the last person to blame for it. After all, he's been involved in the sport about as long as Richard Petty has, and you aren't involved that long without making logical decisions. Yes, Smith is big-headed, and his mouth runneth over much too often, and with stupid comments (like his comments about his Cup race vs. the Kentucky Derby, which has been around since 1875), but he has been hugely beneficial for the sport over the long run. 109. Anonymous posted: 07.10.2011 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where's Ryan? I want to hear his thoughts on this race. Oh right, he's staying away from this thread because Busch dominated on his way to another win, and he never shows up when Busch wins. Not a bad way to, "wear out his equipment," by putting in victory lane, eh Ryan? 110. Red posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "they tried to ruin Atlanta by putting in a generic dogleg, but lucked out with whatever asphault composition they used which wore quickly and became the new Rockingham." Since most fans agree that a tire-grinding surface makes for better racing, does anybody know if it would it be possible to create an abrasive asphalt compound specifically designed to wear out tires? I'm no chemist or engineer, but I'd be willing to bet that someone could create a special "racing asphalt" that would mimick the surface of Atlanta, old Rockingham, or old Darlington. 111. Cooper posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "109. Red posted: 07.10.11 - 9:01 pm" Charlotte tried that weird grooved payment in I believe 2004/2005 and it was a total train wreck. Problem is, all these tracks would become tire abrasive but NASCAR doesn't allow it. They feel the need to repave all these tracks to make it faster. Just think when they repave Michigan...200MPH average speed is a possibly, it will be a total clusterfluck. 112. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Darlington was repaved after the 2007 Southern 500 (I know it wasn't the official name of the race then) because parts of turn two had been coming apart for years, and I'm surprised that the track surface, which will be five years old when the Cup cars race in next year's Southern 500, the 63rd running, hasn't started to become abrasive. I wonder what kind of pavement they are using on these new paving jobs, because, to my surprise, they haven't started aging like they used to. Talladega was paved that same year (2007) and hasn't started aging either, though that track is so wide, that handling wouldn't matter, and tire wear is never a factor because of that track's wide, sweeping turns anyway. So time will tell when the paving jobs at Daytona,Las Vegas, as well as the future paving jobs at Kansas, Phoenix, Michigan, and eventually Kentucky and California will see the pavement start to wear. Actually, the last time Daytona was paved (after the 1978 Firecracker 400) it was about 15 years or more before the surface began to show it's age. So only time will when the new pavement at these tracks will begin to show its age. 113. Red posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Problem is, all these tracks would become tire abrasive but NASCAR doesn't allow it." Exactly. In my opinion, NASCAR shouldn't repave any track until it's literally falling apart (like Daytona was last year). Or, as others have mentioned, just bring a softer tire compound that will give up 2-3 seconds over the course of a run. When cars are sliding around on old tires, it puts more emphasis on mechanical grip rather than aerodynamic grip, which makes the racing so much better. 114. Rusty posted: 07.10.2011 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On another note, Kyle Busch adds Kentucky to the list of tracks he has won on in all three series. Fontana, Phoenix, Loudon, Bristol, Talladega, Dover and Chicagoland are the other tracks he has done it on. Making it 8 tracks he has accomplished the feat on. Other drivers to win in all three series on any track(s) are: Kevin Harvick (Atlanta, Phoenix, Martinsville) Mark Martin (Fontana, Dover, Bristol, Talladega) Carl Edwards (Bristol) Bobby Labonte (Martinsville) 115. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And what NASCAR is afraid of isn't older surfaces that grind tires, but rather old surfaces that become so bumpy that they become dangerousm as well as old surfaces that tear up, which will eventually happen, I think the 2004 incident at Martinsville when a huge piece of concrete came up out of turn three and the incident at the 600 at Charlotte the next year when the track started to come up in turn four, not to mention the 2010 Daytona 500 debacle got NASCAR to think about paving these tracks more often. After all, the racing at Martinsville has gotten progressively worse since it was repaved after the debacle in the 2004 spring race there, the paving job at Charlotte was so good that they have to run an extremely hard tire, or risk the cars going much too fast and tearing tires up left and right, and the repaving at Daytona led to a completely different style of racing this year. so to combat the potential for extreme speeds next year after Michigan is repaved, one of the things NASCAR almost certainly will have to do is to run an extremely hard tire, as well as higher gear ratios, which will also slow the cars down,and I expect the same at Kansas and the other high-speed tracks with paving jobs imminent. And if Atlanta is repaved, which I also think may be sometime in the near future, they will probably need restrictor plates for a short time, especially considering what happened to Brad Keselowski there in the spring last year, and the same may be true at Michigan, the home of the first NASCAR race ever run with restrictor plates in 1970. Again, NASCAR is not worried about abrasive surfaces as much as they are about potentially dangerous surfaces like the one at Kentucky. 116. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2011 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "on't forget that Bruton Smith was one of the main reasons North Wilkesboro was taken off the schedule" Oh I know. Painfully well. I loved Wilkesboro. Races there were SO much fun. That track had everything. Short track fender rubbing, a tire grinding surface, a quirky layout (downhill frontstretch, uphill frontstretch), and it is all right in front of you. It's not just that Bruton took its Cup dates away, but he shut the place down. It sat for 14 years. They finally got some racing going on there again last year with some REALLY good crowds for regional Series. But they can't make it work financially since they are renting it from Bruton who wants an obscene $12 million for the facility, and now it is shut down again. "Since most fans agree that a tire-grinding surface makes for better racing, does anybody know if it would it be possible to create an abrasive asphalt compound specifically designed to wear out tires? I'm no chemist or engineer, but I'd be willing to bet that someone could create a special "racing asphalt" that would mimick the surface of Atlanta, old Rockingham, or old Darlington." That is the million dollar question. Supposedly when they repaved Darlington, they used the same compound they used in '96. But it has been surprisingly slow in wearing out, so I don't know what happened there. I think a huge factor in Rockingham and Darlington's surface is the fact they are in the sandhills. The wind blows all that surrounding sand across the track which wears it out. Again, not sure why the current Darlington pavement isn't wearing. Another factor: The South. Those three tracks are all in the heart of the Southeast. As was Wilkesboro which was another tire grinder. Take it from this Southerner: Our summers are brutally hot and humid and last forever, while our winters are cold and dry, with the exception of one or two snowstorms or icestorms. And we have hardly any Spring or Fall seasons of moderate weather. It seems like it is one extreme or another. That extreme in temperature that pavement down here will face has to play a huge factor. "As for what Bruton Smith ...... did to Atlanta, it was a masterpiece. the first race with the new surface in 1997 featured a three-wide photo finish in an ARCA race, and it's gotten better from there." That was dumb luck. The old Atlanta configuration was great. There was no need to mess with it. If they want to flip the front and back stretches a la Darlington for more suites, that is fine. But there was no need to add the dogleg. All that did was take away its identity and character. But a strange thing happened: The pavement cured in an odd but exciting way and the racing has been outstanding. But looking at the the track its new design was cloned after, Charlotte, and the other Charlotte clone, Texas, it is simply dumb luck Atlanta turned into such a great racing facility. "The grounding at Charlotte was as much humpy Wheeler's idea as it was Smith's, as that was a catastrophe." That is true. I also blame Humpy for fixing what wasn't broke. The old Charlotte had bumps that added character and provided relatively good racing for a 1 and 1/2 mile track in the aero era. But still, Bruton owns the track and should have said "Levigating? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!" "Their shortening the track at Sonoma was done to make the cars go by the fans in the stands more often, so I have no problem with that" I have a problem with it. The part they took out was the best part of the track, going downhill through that tricky carosel then hauling ass up the drag strip to that hairpin, reverse banked Turn 7 was so much fun. "As for what they did at Bristol. Well, they finally made it an actual race track, where you can actually race somebody, instead of a home for glorified demolition derbies." I hate this argument. I hate it when people say "oh, all you guys who liked the Old Bristol want to see is cars wrecked every 10 laps, this is more sophisticated racing". Horse Shit What I loved about the Old Bristol was watching drivers have to compete against one another for that one fast groove. It is the same reason I like watching races at Darlington, Martinsville, and Sears Point (even with the carosel). Passing there was an art. Sure, drivers sometimes just rammed through the guy, but watching them set up a pass was great. Now? It is just a half mile Michigan. Michigan sucks (the track, not the state, my favorite current driver is from Michigan). The Old Bristol was an event. You might have missed a few races throughout the year, but any NASCAR fan made sure to watch the Bristol races. Now it is just another date. Why would they mess with something as anticipated as Bristol? Talk about fixing what wasn't broke. "And SMI discovered they had problems at Texas, so they did something about it, and it has also become a track where you can race high or low." That is because the pavement wore out. And the transitions in and out of the corners (the original problem) are still so sudden, they don't race side by side. The only decent races there were the daytime races when it was hot. So of course they turned the Spring race into a night race. Seriously, what the hell? BTW, everyone wondering how to improve the racing at Kentucky, hold the race in the heat of the day. The hot track will cause the cars to slip and slide, and allow passing. Remember the Kansas race this year in the heat of the day? So are they gonna move it to night soon? Of course they are. Did Bruton buy Kansas and we just don't know it? Another thing, the racing at California has improved from horribly boring to just kinda boring in its last few races. Two things: The pavement is worn out and those races were in the daytime which made the track even more slick. No track more than 3/4 of a mile should have night racing except exhibition races. "They also put in variable banking at Las Vegas, making it a bedtter track to race on." They actually made it worse. The old Vegas, while undeniably boring, was finally wearing to the point they could get off the bottom. The final race on that surface saw a great last lap duel between Kenseth and Johnson. So of course they quickly reconfigured it into a narrow track. "So for those that don't think Bruton Smith has improved the quality of racing at his tracks, I'd say you should actually watch the races before making such obviously dumb statements." Dumb statement? I have backed up every statement I have made. All you have to do is look at the sharp downturn in interest over NASCAR. Yeah, attendance downturn can be blamed on the economy. But why are the TV ratings free falling? Because it isn't fun to watch. Yes, it is undoubtably a combination that has led to this. Along with screwing up fun tracks, we have the awful COT, hard tires, way too strict rules forcing everyone to run pretty much the same stuff, and too much night racing. But don't talk down to me like that. I'm not just pulling these comments out of my ass. 117. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry about that mistake about Kansas, ISC owns and runs that track, not SMI, sorry about that. As for your statemaent about the old Bristol. That's a track you can actually race on now. Before the ONLY way to get by someone was to knock him out of the way. There was no finesse about it. It was either wreck him or finish behind him. It's that simple. The racing at Bristol is actually back closer to what it was before they put concrete on it. Back in the 80s you could run low, middle, or high, and that resulted in great racing. But when they resufaced that track with concrete in 1992, it became a one-groove track, and the only way to pass anyone was to basically wreck him, and hope he didn't crash. What they have now is much better. As for ruining the night race, which was a hot ticket for many years, NASCAR's to blame, because of it's position in the schedule relative to the Chase. It's the third-to-last race before the Chase, and NASCAR doesn't want to risk drivers that are contending for chase spots to be flatly wrecked because they're in the way. As for the sagging attendance, that's an across the board problem that I don't see getting any better any time soon for a multitude of reasons. (Even the sport's most popular events, like the Daytona 500, as well as the races at Bristol, Talladega, and other popular events has been sagging.) I also think at the tracks that are tied closely with the sport's roots in terms of location, the people in the Carolinas, Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Georgia simply don't have hardly anyone to root for that's running up front any more. (I'd include Alabama, but there hasn't been a driver from that state competing on the Cup circuit since Hut Stricklin.) Other than Denny Hamlin, all the top drivers are either from the Pacific time zone, or the midwest, so there's no one in the sport's historical center to root for. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. is fading again, as Steve Letarte's history is repeating itself, Brian Vickers is nowhere to be found, David Ragan's win was the first by a Georgia driver since Bill Elliott's final victory way back in 2003, and there's no one from Tennessee, Kentucky, or anyone else from the Carolinas running up front any more. That's why there's so much hope for Trevor Bayne, because he can represent the traditional fan base, being from Tennessee. If he can become a consistent front runner in the Nationwide, and eventually, the Cup series, Bayne can help the traditional fan base return to the sport. If not, it may be a long time before the traditional fan base returns, simply because they don't have anyone to root for that's a contender. 118. 18fan posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the simple, short term fix for these races would be for Goodyear to bring softer tires. 119. Eric posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I personally think the attendance issue at Indy never will be where is was before 2009. Indy's attendance really took a nose dive after the 2008 Brickyard 400 race that tires couldn't even last 20 laps. Besides the tire issue of 2008, Indy has the big problem of amount of cup dates in the Midwest that didn't exist in 1994. Indy and Michigan were the only 2 cup tracks back in 1994. What Nascar really needs to do is take away dates from some of their own tracks that has 2 dates. Take a look at Kansas. Kansas has 2 dates now and there appears to be a dip in attendance as a result. There is reading on the 2nd date for Kansas before the chase for attendance, but 80,000 fans is big dip from the 100,000 they got from the chase date. If Kansas gets 80,000 fans for its chase date also, the conclusion is having 2 dates actually prevents Kansas from selling out. Michigan is very debatable. If it wasn't the fans from Canada, Michigan's attendance would have been even worse than it is currently. The economy in the United States isn't great based on unemployment rates and I think Michigan's still hurting. 120. Anonymous85 posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 2008 Brickyard 400 Might have been NASCAR'S Version of the Fingerpoke of doom 121. Anonymous posted: 07.10.2011 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You forgot about Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. being from Mississippi. The last time I checked Mississippi is in the south. Ricky has the chance to be the first full time cup driver from that state since Lake Speed if I recalled correctly. 122. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2011 - 3:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes Anonymous, but I wouldn't exactly call Mississippi traditional stock car country, which you just pretty much admitted by saying he'd be the first full-time Cup driver since Lake Speed, and he drove his last Cup race 13 years ago, and as far as I know, he's the only driver from Mississippi ever to win a Cup race. And I wouldn't call the Gulf region (east Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi) traditional stock car country, anyway. Traditional stock car country, to me, is the Carolinas, Virginia, Georgia, Alabama (which is a Gulf state), Tennessee, and Kentucky (and even that's stretching it a bit). And as long as there aren't top drivers from that region, (currently, there is only one, Denny Hamlin, and he's not exactly a driver that the sport can build around, because of his bland personality) NASCAR will continue to flounder in it's traditional home base, because one of the reasons for sagging attendance in those particular races is that there's no top driver to root for from traditional stock car country that has that charisma that can lift the sport, as was the case with Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt. There are other reasons, of course, but the lack of a big star that's currently successful is one big reason for te sagging attendance in the sport's home region. (Denny Hamlin is certainly a star driver, with 17 wins, but he isn't what I call charismatic, and a championship by him last season, the way it played out, might have been NASCAR's worst nightmare. They would have rather had Jimmie Johnson or Kevin Harvick as their champion over Hamlin any day of the week, because either can sell the sport better than Hamlin could ever dream to.) Hamlin's lack of charisma and Trevor Bayne's seemingly abundance of it is one reason why NASCAR would love to see him (Bayne) be successful in the future. 123. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2011 - 3:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And, by the way, am I the only one that noticed that each of the four makes are represented in the top four in points? Leading the points after this race after his victory is Kyle Busch, in a Toyota. Second is Carl Edwards, in a Ford, while Kevin Harvick, in a Chevrolet drops from first to third, as he and Kyle Busch trade places, with Edwards remaining in second place in the championship standings, making it three different pint leaders in as many races. Rounding out the quartet of drivers in the top four spots, each representing a different make is Kyle's older brother, Kurt Busch, driving a Dodge. I'm not sure anyone else has noticed, but I thought I'd just throw that out there. It's the second consecutive week in which that's been the case. Those same four drivers were the top four after the Firecracker 400 last week, but as I mentioned, in a slightly different order. 124. Anonymous posted: 07.11.2011 - 4:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i wonder what the record is for the fastest any track has been removed from the schedule, unfortunatley na$car will continue to make yearly visits to this track regardless of the awful tire and aero issues, hopefully bruton smith never gets his wish of having the season finale in las vegas, the racing is the exact same as kentucky, the race in march was proof, the only things the Las Vegas Motor Speedway has going for it is the neon garage and the fact that its in las vegas, plus homestead is a good track with lots of good green flag racing 125. Evan posted: 07.11.2011 - 7:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not a very exciting race, nor was it good for the fans. Kentucky was not ready for prime time and it showed. I like the way the track looks but I could go to sleep watching the poor racing. Busch put a can on the field and it should have been a bit more competitive. They pine for a cup race and this is what they got, seems like a NASCAR-only deal they put a Kentucky race because of the ISC lawsuit and make them look good. This was not a race for the fans, it was done to appease the ISC. 126. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2011 - 8:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think the tire situation was that bad at Kentucky. Now, the aerodynamic issue is another story, but I don't think that will ever get better. Again, the only way I think the racing gets any better is for NASCAR to open up the rules and allow the teams to run more downforce, especially on the front, and I don't think they will ever do either of those things. They might soften the tire compounds on some select tracks, but they can't do that on high-speed tracks, because I believe there's a limit to how fast these tire can afford to go. Charlotte in the fall of 2004 and both 2005 races proved that. They ran faster at Charlotte in the race in those three events than they ever had before, or have since, and those three races were littered with tire problems. So I believe there's a limit on the 1.5 mile tracks as to just how fast the cars can go in the race for tire life, and those races at Charlotte proved that they went too fast then, which is why they've had to harden the tire compound for the races on the 1.5 mile tracks since then. Harder compound tires is one way to slow the cars down, though they're faster over the long run, because they don't wear out. Only Atlanta, because of the aging track surface, produces tire wear. Remember, NASCAR was heading for a 2008 Brickyard-like disaster at Bristol earlier this year before they and Goodyear stepped in with a different compound tire, because the tires they originally brought to that event were doing the exact same thing they did at the Brickyard in 2008, and that was to leave a something resembling powder on the track, while just eating the tires up. And as for DSFF's comment about SMI not doing anything after the first few disastrous races at Texas. They did do something there in about 2001 that has produced better racing since then, because Texas, until that point, was a 1-1.5 grove track, but since the changes at Texas the occurred in about 2001, it has become a place you can run just about anywhere on. At least aerodynamics shouldn't be as much as a factor at the series' next stop, which is Loudon, NH. They'll be a factor, but I don't think quite as much as the high speed tracks. 127. Brad24 posted: 07.11.2011 - 8:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Judging by previous posts makes me wonder how many people will come back next year and the years after that. I say they should give Kentucky's Cup date to Iowa. Iowa has better racing plus IMO the grandstands would stay pretty packed. They had over 50,000 last year in a stand-alone Nationwide race. 128. Cooper posted: 07.11.2011 - 9:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "118. 18fan posted: 07.10.11 - 11:23 pm" Like seriously. It's not that hard of a solution. And I totally agree with DSFF. I hate how these tracks are designed. I enjoyed Kansas, and now of course NASCAR is going to take it away. They're going to add banking and make it another one of there legendary 1.5 mile banked tracks. If I add access to a bulldozer, I would be on an American road trip right now. 129. IglooRacer posted: 07.11.2011 - 10:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The sad thing is NASCAR will probably never get rid of these tracks or even move to one date. Iowa has been a sellout, but I'm not entirely sold on the racing ( thank Kyle busch for that) but to get a date would cost a ton of money cuz they would need to buy a date from SMI and ISC. Oh get rid of those stupid doglegs at every track but Charlotte and phoenix. I think not having one contributes to the good racing we see at homestead. 130. 00andJoe posted: 07.11.2011 - 11:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) With regards to Bristol: when they reconfigured it, they ruined it. Maybe switching from concrete to asphalt wasn't a problem, but catching the "variable banking disease"? It's telling that Bristol's commercials always use footage from the old surface... Let's say it again: they. Ruined. It. End of line. 131. Scott B posted: 07.11.2011 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah, more caution flag shenanigans. I knew the yellow was coming out as soon as everyone completed their pit stop cycle unless the #18 had issues with their stop (which they did not). No way NASCAR was going to leave a couple of fan favorites a lap down midway thru the race. It was the most flagrant manipulation in recent memory, and we all know it happens a lot. After that BS, I actually would have been angry if the #18 didn't win the race, regardless of how I feel about Kyle. At least his crew deserved the win, they brought a car that had the field covered. I am not a Jeff Gordon hater, I'm pretty neutral on him these days, but there is not way he EARNED at top 10 finish. Being on the lead lap was a gift, plain and simple. And the other driver the waive-around-o-rama was supposed to help, well, I like him a lot as a person, but I would be embarrased if he needed charity to get back in contention. I'd rather have him be just a coloful personality who never wins another race than see that. And the off-track stuff, fans with tickets being turned away due to lack of parking... just shameful. 132. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2011 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How were 23 cars on the lead lap? The last I knew there were 7. I want to see a schedule include these tracks somewhere in the top three series (I know that some of them aren't ready): Pensacola, Charlotte dirt track, North Wilkes, the Rock, Mobile, Old Nashville, Langley Field, Myrtle Beach, Slinger, and Eldora. 133. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2011 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, I wasn't even aware that they put variable banking in at Bristol when the redid the track. I knew they reduced the banking, but I wasn't totally aware they also put variable banking there, as well. Just another reason the racing there is much better than the wreckfests that track was known for previously. To point it out, the most number of caution periods in any Bristol race since it was redone has been 11, which was in the 2009 August race. In the previous 15 races at the track, only twice was there a race there with fewer than 11 cautions, and none with fewer than 9. already, there have been races with 7 cautions, 8 cautions, and two with 9 cautions, and only once since the tracl was redone has there been a race at Bristol with more than 76 caution laps out of 500 (the last race before it was reconfigured had 15 caution periods for 90 caution laps), and there was one race with only 39 laps of caution out of 500, so there's also more racing, as well as better racing taking place there, backing up my point that the changes made Bristol an actual race track where you could actually race your competitors instead of having to flat out knock them out of the way to get by. what they have now is better. In fact, all four races in 2002 and 2003 had more than 100 laps of caution because of all the crashing that was taking place, because there was no other way to pass. It's probably not as popular, but it is better racing. Although judging by the opinions here, I'm the only one here with that opinion. Let me repeat myself, the night race at Bristol has been neutered by the Chase, and its relation to the end of the "regular season", as it's the third race before the Chase starts, so the competitors, probably at NASCAR's behest, have been laying off potential Chase cnotenders even before the track was reconfigured. To staistically back my point, the August races from 2004-'06 had a total of 35 caution periods, or about 12 per race, with a high of 16 in 2005. The spring races in those same three years had a total of 43 caution periods, or 14 per race, with a high of 18 in 2006, as well as 14 in 2005. Also, there were only nine caution periods in the night race in 2004, the first year of the Chase. Prior to that, the last time the night race at Bristol had fewer than 10 cautions was way back in 1996, the only other time on the old concrete surface that the number of caution period was in the single digits, yet since the track was reconfigured, the most number of cautions in a Bristol race to date has been 11, which makes me wonder if a race with many cautions at that track is due. During this same period of time, the number of cautions at Martinsville has skyrocketed because it has been a single-lane track since it was forced to be redon after the 2004 sring race debacle when a huge piece of concrete came up out of the third turn and struck Jeff Gordon's car, possibly costing him that race. Given a choice, I'd prefer to watch a race (on TV, of course) on a multi-groove track that gives the drivers multiple options. The options of a multi-groove track means that the drivers have to find a way around their competitors instead of driving straight through them. 134. Anonymous posted: 07.11.2011 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IglooRacer, Didn't you watch the Iowa Nationwide race earlier this year. That was great racing and even it was for the lead. Kyle Busch wasn't in that race and there great passing. You wouldn't just admit that Kyle Busch is a such great short track driver that your afraid of him stinking up the show. 135. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.11.2011 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How were 23 cars on the lead lap? The last I knew there were 7." It's called NASCAR's welfare system, and it hands drivers a free pass simply because the leader pits. "Dale Earnhardt, Jr. is fading again, as Steve Letarte's history is repeating itself" Dale Jr's history with HMS is repeating itself as well. He started off really good in 2008, somewhat good in 2010 and in those years he wasn't the same in the second half of the season. 136. Cooper posted: 07.11.2011 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "133. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.11 - 1:16 pm" The "Old Bristol" was so intriguing though. If you had a bad race car you could still hold your position, and that's what created all the great battles. A great driver could really do more than there equipment, but now it's for not. A good race car beats a good driver at Bristol right now, which should not be the case. Short tracks are supposed to be about beating and banging. Not about momentum and forward bite. The sport has gotten so technical now, that I really believe the majority of races are won at the shop and not at the racetrack. Which some people think that's what auto racing is about. Not me though. I'm more intrigued about the drivers, not the machine. Put the race back in the drivers and crews hands. I don't know how you can do that, but I'd like to see it. 137. Cooper posted: 07.11.2011 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper's interesting fact of the race: --This is the highest purse for an inaugural race in NASCAR history. You don't have to look this up because I already did. 138. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.11.2011 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think the simple, short term fix for these races would be for Goodyear to bring softer tires." I agree. They have to get these cars slipping and sliding. But Goodyear is so afraid of tire blowouts, they keep bringing these rock hard tires. Newsflash: This is racing. The point is to push every piece of the race car to its limit: the motor, the chassis, the suspension, and yes, THE TIRES! The result of this pushing will be failures if you push too far. We know this. Unless it is an outright debacle like Indy '08, we won't think less of Goodyear. So soften the tires. But long term they need to fix the car also. "hopefully bruton smith never gets his wish of having the season finale in las vegas" Ain't that the damn truth. Races there have always sucked, and have gotten even worse with the new configuration and new car. Homestead is a great track, and a great place to end the year. That track showed us how to reconfigure a circuit. The thing that made me maddest about Kansas getting a second date was that they didn't give it to Homestead. "With regards to Bristol: when they reconfigured it, they ruined it. Maybe switching from concrete to asphalt wasn't a problem, but catching the "variable banking disease"? It's telling that Bristol's commercials always use footage from the old surface... Let's say it again: they. Ruined. It. End of line." Exactly. I noticed that too. I just don't know what they were thinking. With as beloved as that place was, why mess with it? "--This is the highest purse for an inaugural race in NASCAR history." I guess when you don't pay for traffic patrol, parking attendents, and a committee to anticipate what will need to be done to host a Cup crowd, you have a lot of money left over :) 139. 00andJoe posted: 07.11.2011 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NHIS entry list is out. 46 cars: -Bliss in the #32 -J.J. Yeley in the #38 -Driver TBD for the #46 -Bell in the #50 -Jeff Green in the Front Row #55 -Wimmer in the Robby Gordon #77 140. Talon64 posted: 07.11.2011 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch gets his 22nd career Cup win, tying him with Terry Labonte for 28th all time and putting him one win back of big brother Kurt (Kyle has 240 starts to Kurt's 382). He's also tied with Terry for 16th in modern era wins (1972-present). Kyle's the 5th active driver to post at least 4 consecutive seasons with 3+ wins, joining Kurt (4), Tony Stewart (4), Jimmie Johnson (9) and Jeff Gordon (11). Kyle and Jimmie are the only drivers with active streaks going, although Jimmie only has 1 win so far in 2011. He's now led 1000+ laps in 4 consecutive seasons, joining Jimmie Johnson (4, will be 5 if he leads 1000 laps this season) and Jeff Gordon (5) as the only active drivers to accomplish the feat. Kyle's the first driver to win from the pole this season, although qualifying was rained out so Kyle started there based on practice speeds. David Reutimann gets his best finish and first top 5 of the season with his 2nd career runner-up finish; it's his 4th top 2 finish and 25th top 10 in 153 career Cup starts. It's only his 9th top 20 finish in 18 races in 2011. Jimmie Johnson has his best finish in the last 10 races in 3rd and just his 2nd top 5 in that stretch. It's the 1300th top 10 for Hendrick Motorsports in 2900 starts. Ryan Newman gets his best finish of the season in 4th but his 5th top 5, after only having 4 top 5's all of last season. He's on pace to have 10 top 5's in a year for the first time since 2004. Newman also made his 350th career Cup start (14 wins, 77 top 5's, 143 top 10's 46 poles, 4187 laps led, 11.1 avg start, 16.8 avg fin). Carl Edwards gets his 10th top 5 of the season, tied with Kyle Busch for the most, and series-leading 13th top 10. It's his first season with 10 top 5's since 2008 after combining for only 16 top 5's in the previous 2 seasons. This is the first time two drivers have each had at least 10 top 5's at the halfway point of a season since 1999 when 5 drivers had 10+ top 5's (after 17 of 34 races). Matt Kenseth recorded his 6th top 10 in the last 8 races, scoring the most points in that stretch. Brad Keselowski led a career-high 79 laps on his way to his 4th top 10 of the season, tying his career high from 2009 (15 starts), and 10th top 10 in 71 career starts. Keselowski's scored the 7th most points over the last 9 races with 1 win, 4 top 10's and a 12.9 avg fin. After only 5 top 10's in the previous 2 seasons combined, David Ragan gets his 6th top 10 of 2011. It's just the 2nd time this season he's had back-to-back top 10's, and he's shot up from 20th to 15th in the standings and just 35 points out of 10th. Kurt Busch gets his 5th top 10 in the last 7 races, scoring the most points and leading the most laps in that stretch. Jeff Gordon gets his 5th top 10 in the last 6 races (16th to 7th in pts), scoring the 2nd most points in that stretch (Kyle Busch 1st). After no stand-alone top 10's in the first 16 races of the season he's gotten them in back-to-back races. Denny Hamlin hasn't had a top 10 in the 3 races since his win at Michigan. After winning his first 3 NNS races at Kentucky from pole from 2008-2010, Joey Logano finishes 10th in this weekend's NNS race and finishes 14th in his first Cup start there. Regan Smith gets his 8th top 20 finish of the season. Jeff Burton's streak of races without a top 10 is now at 22 races, the 2nd longest drought of his career (27 races in 1994-1995). In the last 4 races Dale Jr. has dropped from 3rd in points, 71 points ahead of 11th, to 8th and only 21 points ahead. At this point last season Jamie McMurray was 19th in pts with 1 win and 4 top 5's. So far in 2011 Jamie is 28th in points with just 2 top 10's. 141. Talon64 posted: 07.11.2011 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't get to watch the Cup race, but from the sounds of things I didn't miss much. And I wasn't nearly as unfortunate as the people who couldn't get to the track because of the terrible traffic and parking conditions. Apparently people who couldn't get to the track can exchange their tickets for ones to any SMI track or the Kentucky race next season, and get free tickets to the Truck/Indy doubleheader later this season. Also, Greg Biffle has a new CC. Greg Irwin is out and Matt Puccia, who was Menard's Nationwide CC last season, is in. 142. 00andJoe posted: 07.11.2011 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Prediction: Regan Smith will be a non-factor when it comes to getting into the top 20. He needs to make up almost 100 points and I don't see that happening. Irony would be David Ragan slipping into the top-12... 143. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2011 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In the old days at Bristol, a mediocre car with a mediocre driver could be a rolling road block for as long as he wanted to be for as many cars as he wanted to hold up, much less a top driver in a mediocre car. To me, short track racing is about beating and banging, to a limit, but it is also about how a car handles, because you can have the best driver in the world,if his car isn't handling, it isn't going anywhere, especially if it's on a short track. I don't mind the side-to-side rubbing, and some beating and banging is OK, but it does have it's limits. At Bristol now, you have options as to where you want to go if you want to pass someone. If someone's running slower on the bottom of the track, you can now go high and pass him on the top of the track. That's what that track lost in 1992 when they repaved it with concrete. Racing at Bristol is, in a way, back to what it was in the 1980s, just with more competitve cars than there was at that time. If you want to see what racing at Bristol was like, watch a race at Martinsville, beacuse that's a one-groove track that, when it was repaved after the 2004 spring race debacle, racing there got worse, not better, as the only way to pass someone is to knock him out of the way. The only difference is, that at the speeds they run at Martinsville, the car being hit, most likely won't hit the wall, and if it does, rarely hits it hard, while at Bristol, if you do that, you would knock that car that you hit right out of the race. And RCRandPenskeGuy, while I don't like the wave-around in NASCAR, because it gets abused, that's just a side effect of what NASCAR really intended to do, and that is to start the leaders in front on every restart. It doesn't make any sense to start the leaders in the pack where, if a driver that's trying to get a lap back gets overanxious, he could wipe out the entire front of the field, as was the case late in the June 2004 race at Dover when two cars got a little too racy and took out most of the leaders who were trailing on that late restart. As I also statred in an earlier post, I remember a recent running of the 24 Hours of Daytona where one car got about 8 laps back that it had lost earlier in the race, simply by taking wave-arounds by not pitting when the leaders do. That idea works in IndyCar racing, where pit stops are more frequent, but in NASCAR, it is often abused. Besides, I'm not sure anyone wants to see a race where one driver laps the entire field (which hasn't happened since 1994), which might happen if it weren't for the free pass for the highest scored non-lead lap car, as well as the "wave-around", as well as "phantom cautions" that NASCAR throws to tighten the field, as well as to inspect the track. Some of those "debris" cautions are thrown, not because there is actual debris on the track, but because the officials want to inspect the track for debris. 144. Anonymous85 posted: 07.11.2011 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said before the problem with NASCAR is that there is virtually no leadership in this organization 145. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.11.2011 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Some of those "debris" cautions are thrown, not because there is actual debris on the track, but because the officials want to inspect the track for debris. " What a joke that is. So what if someone laps the whole field? Does anyone complain when a football team demolishes the other? No, they get congratulated for their superb performance. What does the other team do? Go home, train harder and come back next week. Not ask the ref to give them a get-out-of-jail-free card for the sake of making the game "more exciting". NASCAR has snookered itself with the length of these races. A blogger on this site, The Vicar, has voiced his opinion that Cup races should be longer than what they currently are, that fans aren't getting their monies worth with less than 3 hours of total race time. But fans also whinge and complain when there aren't many cars on the lead lap or if there isn't a close finish...things that longer races aren't as likely to produce. So how do you play it NASCAR? Right now, they've chosen what is undoubtly the worst possible option that they could take, which is to try and run an endurance race like a sprint race. These phoney debris cautions don't make the racing more exciting, they ruin everything that the race has been shaping up to be. If you want more lead lap cars, run shorter races! If you want the races to go longer, then accept the fact that there will be fewer cars on the lead lap. And that there's nothing wrong with that. I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers with this one, but the best race this year (IMO)? Has been Texas. Because it was 500-miles of racing, start to finish. It was a race. Unlike this race, which makes you wonder what the point was in the first 150 laps. 146. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2011 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) However, on the caution period late in the race that saw only seven cars on the lead lap. That was due to the fact that a caution came out during the middle of green flag pit stops. That's why there were so few cars on the lead lap. Under those circumstances, I agree with the "wave around" rule, because they were put a lap down due to no fault of their own. Remember when Bill Elliott, who was running poorly got a full lap ahead at Atlanta when the caution flag flew near the end of a series of green flag pit stops late in that race. Elliott was the only one that had not stopped and crossed the start-finish line at the caution a full lap ahead of Davey Allison and Harry Gant, effectively ending the race for the lead with about 50 laps to go. That's one thing that the "wave around" rule will stop from ever happening again. (By not stopping under green, Elliott went from about three-quarters of a lap behind to a full lap ahead, though about 12 cars got back on the tail end of the lead lap when elliott pitted uner that caution flag.) It's one thing for a driver to lap the field by dominating the race, but it's another thing if he flat-out lucks into it like Elliott did that day. (Incidentally, that was the same race in which the modern competition caution was born, the '92 Atlanta spring race.) But the reason there were only seven cars on the lead lap at that time was the particular timing of that caution flag, coming in the middle of green flag pit stops. now, those cars that were waved around would still not have been able to fully catch the leaders, except for that final caution for Clint Bowyer's spin in turn 3. That allowed the cars that were waved around to catch those that had previously been on the lead lap, as the rules state that "wave around" cars must stop behind the lapped cars, cars that were penalized during the caution that a driver is waved around on, and even the free pass car, since he was put back on the lead lap (or given one lap back) before the cars were waved around. The order of cars starting on the restart are, lead lap cars, lapped cars, cars that have been penalized (if there are any), the free pass car, and wave arounds. They are not necessarily placed in race order. 147. Red posted: 07.11.2011 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I know I'm going to ruffle some feathers with this one, but the best race this year (IMO)? Has been Texas. Because it was 500-miles of racing, start to finish. It was a race. Unlike this race, which makes you wonder what the point was in the first 150 laps." I enjoyed the Texas race as well, for exactly the reason you stated. The entire 500 miles were relevant, and the most deserving car won. I love an exciting finish, don't get me wrong. But first and foremost, I want to see a FAIR race, in which the best cars throughout the race are the ones challenging for the win at the end. There were a couple races in 2008 that come to mind, which everyone else hated but I thought were great: the Atlanta and Dover spring races. Both of them had very long green flag runs, and during each run you'd see comers and goers, just like it was in the 80's and 90's. You had guys manhandling their cars on worn tires and a slippery track. The finishing order of those races was about as "pure" as you'll ever see in modern NASCAR. In that Dover race, the 20th place car was SIX laps down. I loved it. Anybody else love a race that everyone else hated? I'd be curious to hear which ones. 148. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.12.2011 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good point, cjs3872. For some reason I'd forgotten that the welfare system is a mere side effect from NASCAR wanting all of the lead lap cars to start up front and the cars a lap or more down to race for the lucky dog at the back of the line. It still doesn't change my feelings about cars getting waved around because they got past the leader due to the lead car pitting, but you are right. At least the leaders aren't being held up by slower cars or being wiped out by stupid driving from a lapped car. There aren't many races in 2008 that I would claim to be "horrible" with the exception of the Indy race that year. That race was pathetic and an absolute debacle that should never happen in any sporting event. Instead of tires rubbing off on the track, they seemed to either blow out or dissolve into dust. I try my best not to badmouth companies that try the best they are capable of to try and make the sport better, but that was an instance where they definitely dropped the ball. 149. 18fan posted: 07.12.2011 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the Dale Jr/Brian Vickers crash in the 2009 Daytona 500 is what sealed the deal for NASCAR removing the tail end of the lead lap cars to start in front of the leaders. The great racing at the end of the 2009 All Star race is what led to the double file restarts in every race. 150. Watto posted: 07.12.2011 - 3:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There is no excuse for traffic problem since the track had sold out Nationwide races for years." They added 40,000 seats, Eric. That might've been a factor ;) "I agree. They have to get these cars slipping and sliding. But Goodyear is so afraid of tire blowouts, they keep bringing these rock hard tires." Hard tires are actually less grippy than soft tires. But yeah, some more fall-off during the run would be cool. 151. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2011 - 8:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, the Dale, Jr./Vickers crash at the 2009 Daytona 500, which instigated a 12-car accident (I don't know exactly how many cars ended up being involved), was not a case of lapped cars starting in front of the leaders. What happened was that a couple of cars just prior to that (Elliott Sadler, Matt Kenseth, and a couple of others) came in for green flag pit stops, and just as that happened, the caution came out. Well, with field slowed by the caution flag, they were able to complete their pit stops without losing a lap, and so when that particular restart happened, Sadler and Kenseth were actually leading the race (which Kenseth eventually won). But right at the front of the field, Earnhardt tried to pass Vickers, who put a huge block on him, which Earnhardt, rightfully, didn't take kind to, and flat turned Vickers, who tried to correct his car, causing that huge pile-up, but it was not a case of lapped cars starting in front of the leaders, but rather different cars leading because of the unusual pit stop scenario that just occurred prior to the previous caution period. And also, RCRandPenskeGuy, that rule, making it so that the leader is always the first to see the green flag is actually the brainchild of Tony George and Brian Barnhart of IndyCar, then the Indy Racing League, who came up with that idea way back in 2000, and now almost every from of racing in this country has adopted it for restarts to ease, or eliminate confusion in the case of the leaders stopping under caution and lapped cars not pitting under that same caution period, and winding up in front of the leaders. To make sure that the leader will always be the first to see the green flag, those that were in front of the leader were waved around on the last lap of that particular caution period and allowed to make up a lost lap, but they could not stop under that caution in order to take advantage of that. But as I've said, that's often a much bigger gamble in IndyCar racing than it is in NASCAR due to the higher frequency of pit stops in IndyCar racing than in NASCAR. (For example, the Indianapolis 500 requires seven or eight pit stops, minimum, while you can make a similar distance in a NASCAR race with as few as five pit stops, four at a restrictor plate 500-mile race.) 152. Scott B posted: 07.12.2011 - 10:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) So, what if waive-arounds (and the lucky dog, for that matter) didn't apply to debris cautions, but only to accidents or spins, or cars grenading an engine like Jamie Mac did this week? It might be a step toward regaining the goodwill of fans who believe the race results are being manipulated. That still wouldn't prevent a phantom debris caution to bunch up cars still on the lead lap where someone has stepped out to too big a lead... but it would be a start. 153. IglooRacer posted: 07.12.2011 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous for post 143. Yes I did watch it, was really good racing. However last year Kyle busch pretty much destroyed the field. I remember these things. 154. IglooRacer posted: 07.12.2011 - 11:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous post 134 Yes did watch it, was really good racing. However last year Kyle busch pretty much destroyed the field. I remember these things. Not saying it's a horrible track, but I'm not 100% sold on the racing there just yet. 155. Cooper posted: 07.12.2011 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1 Lucky Dog, 1 Wave Around Caution comes out. Leaders pit. 1st car one lap down gets lucky dog. With two laps till green, first car in line in front of the leader gets the wave around, all other cars must pit or go to end of the line. Simple. If you got caught a lap down for pitting under green. Tough apples. Happens to everyone. Been like that since 1949. 156. IglooRacer posted: 07.12.2011 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoops double post. I fail. I did mean post 134. Myothercarisan- your comment about not knowing the point of the first 150 laps, well I've been saying the same thing about the first 90 laps in the all star race for a couple years now. 157. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2011 - 11:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would like to compliment Kentucky and SMI for what they are doing for those that got turned away from the race because they didn't have enough tickets. They (finally) offered an apology and said those unused tickets can be traded for tickets at any SMI track for the rest of the year (including Bristol) or next year's Kentucky race. A few things though, the apology is late. They should have issued an official apology that night, or at least very early Sunday morning. I like that they waited to come up with a good deal for the fans. Also, it makes me sad that Bristol is in that list because in the recent past it would have been long since sold out. Cjs, I respect your opinion on the New Bristol. But the downturn in interest in the track has been palpable since it was re-done. "Hard tires are actually less grippy than soft tires. But yeah, some more fall-off during the run would be cool." That is true, but once they wear out, the slipping and sliding begins. Especially in daytime racing in the hot weather when the track also gets greasy. 158. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2011 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, NASCAR can't flat-out make a driver make a pit stop who hasn't violated any rules. That statement in post #155 has to be one of the dumbest ideas I've ever seen or ever heard of. And DSFF, the downturn is attencance and demand for tickets at Bristol these days for much better racing than they used to have there, is why the question of why people go to automobile races, because many go to auto races to see the intense competition among the best at their profession, but the ones that don't like the racing there (either on site or on TV), because there aren't as many wrecks. Well, that tells me that those particular fans watch the races at Daytona and Talladega just to see the huge crashes there. Again, that is, by no means, a blanket statement, because there are, as I stated, many people that go to auto races to see the intense competition, and millions more that watch them for that reason. And I fall into the category that watch not just auto races, but other sporting events, to watch the best go up against the best, which is why I just watch professional sporting events. I never care who wins, as I'm not a fan of anyone in particular in any sport. I just watch for the intense, and hopefully clean competition. 159. Rusty posted: 07.12.2011 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with DSFF about night racing, it is stupid. Yeah, the cars look prettier at night with the lights shining on the car, but the racing is normally worse. Do we need night races at Phoenix, Texas, Chicagoland, Kentucky, etc? We need to cut back on the night racing. Kentucky needs to be moved to Sunday afternoon, the racing will be better and that way they don't have to run the Truck race on Thursday. Go look in the comment section of that race and see how many people said they didn't even know the race was on. People aren't looking for a NASCAR race on a Thursday night. IMO, the only race that HAS to be at night is Bristol in August. I'm good with Richmond, Daytona in July, and a few others having night races but some of these other tracks need to give it up. 160. Cooper posted: 07.12.2011 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "158. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.11 - 2:56 pm" I didn't think it was that bad. Just tell the cars ahead of the leader to go behind the pack for the restart, essentially allowing them to pit. It's better than waving around 20 cars. And why can't you understand that people enjoyed Bristol. It was great racing with great action for 500 laps. Now it plain sucks. S-U-C-K-S. 161. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2011 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, you definately need night races in places where it gets extremely hot, because not only would you put the drivers in danger, but also pit crews, officials, and spectators. That's the reason why the Southern 500 was moved to night before it was moved around on the schedule. Remember, they're only human like the rest of us, and there have been spectators and even drivers that have been killed by extreme heat. An example ofthat occurred in the 1953 Indianapolis 500 when Carl Scarborough actually died from heat exhaustion, and fans have died for that reason, as well. So if you're going to schedule races at Kentucky in the summer time, they have to be at night, or you could possibly be looking at a race time temperature of between 100 and 110 degrees. It's also for that reason that the NFL refused to schedule more than one home game for the Cardinals in the first month of the NFL season after they moved to Arizona until they got a domed stadium, or one with a retractable roof. The possiblity for extreme heat is also why the Firecracker 400 was run late in the morning until 1998, when it was moved to nighttime so that it could be covered live on network television. The networks would like to have televised the race live prior to 1998, but an 11 am Eastern time start would have made it impossible to cover the race on live network TV, because that would have meant an 8 AM broadcast in the Pacific time zone. So what you are saying then is that people should risk dying of heat exhaustion or risk a stroke if they want to go to the race at Kentcky. There was also one year at the USGP at Indy when several spectators died, which I believe was also from heat exhaustion. If NASCAR and the speedway scheduled a race to run under those conditions and non-participants suffered strokes, and/or died as a result, there would be quite a number of lawsuits against NASCAR and the speedway (Kentucky in this case). Also, extreme heat was the reason that the second Talladega race was move in 1997 to October. When they had the race at Auto Club speedway on Labor Day weekend, they had to run the race to finish at night for the same reasons, while they had to start the race in extreme heat so that it wouldn't start too late in the Eastern Time Zone. (In fact, when USAC first ran the California 500 IndyCar race in 1970, it was also on Labor Day weekend. It didn't take long for USAC to figure out that put everyone that was there in danger of suffering serious or fatal heat-related injuries.) As for other night races, I don't think they're running one at Phoenix this year, though I could be wrong about that. By the way, I have no problem with the night races, especially Saturday night races, for it provides a possibility to run the races later if it rains, and the Saturday date also puts in a built-in rain date, if the race has to be postponed, as was the case with the 2007 Southern 500 at Darlington, for example. (I know it wasn't called that at the time.) Most of the races run at night are run in places where the possibility of the race being postponed by rain is evident. If you have a track with lights, you can run the race later and not have to stop and end it due to fading daylight. And Cooper, what you're saying is that you would like to see cars that don't pit when the leaders do under to caution to be penalized for no reason, and that's exactly what that would be, a penalty. Plus, what would happen if NASCAR forced those teams to make a pit stop, and something broke as a result, like a transmission, or an axle. You can't legislate forced pitting. 162. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2011 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yeah, the cars look prettier at night with the lights shining on the car, but the racing is normally worse. Do we need night races at Phoenix, Texas, Chicagoland, Kentucky, etc? We need to cut back on the night racing." Amen. I'm fine with the exhibition races at Daytona and Charlotte being at night. Of course the Fall races at Bristol and Richmond. And I have no problem with the 600 ending at night. But that is it. I think they should have the May Richmond race on Sunday afternoon. I'd like to see the Firecracker 400 be a Saturday noon race again. And I sure as hell don't want to see Texas, Chicago, Homestead, and Atlanta at night. Darlington just looks wrong under the lights. And hands down the dumbest night race is the Fall Charlotte race. It gets cold at night there in October. Luckily it looks like California and Phoenix have "seen the light" and quit racing Cup events at night. And they FINALLY put the Daytona 500 back into daytime where it belongs. The fact is night racing has lost its thrill. It was a big deal once. When they lit up Charlotte for the first time, it was amazing to watch. I was at the 600 the next year when it ended at night for the first time, and was thrilled (especially by the result!). And when they put lights at Daytona for the first time it was something to behold. But now? It has been done so much the thrill is gone. Only exhibition races, some short track races, and the last 150 miles of the Coke 600 should be at night. And since these tracks already have lights, if there is a rain delay or other delay, then they can use them so they can get it in that day if possible (ie the '10 Daytona 500). 163. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2011 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Cooper, as for your point about people enjoying Bristol because of all the wrecks, that's an example of what I was saying about the mentality of race fans, escpecially those that go to see crashes. I like the newer Bristol because the track now gives you options. And guess what? The drivers like the newer Bristol for exactly the same reason. Almost all of them do. 164. IglooRacer posted: 07.12.2011 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like homestead under the lights cuz it puts on a good show but doesn't NASCAR racing Saturday nights also kill local small time short tracks that race every saturday night? 165. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2011 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, a noon eastern start to the Firecraker 400 means a 9 am start on the west coast, and no television network, even a cable network like TNT, who does the race now, would want to do that under any circumstances. When NASCAR made the decision to make that event a night race, they did so beacuse it meant that everyone could watch the race and not have to get up extra early in the morning to watch it. (I remember the 1990 race started at 7-8 am on the west coast, where I was living at the time.) NASCAR and the Daytona speedway has to think about ALL the race fans, not just the ones on the east coast. 166. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2011 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And, by the way, the race at Atlanta, which is now on Labor Day weekend, has to be run at night for all the reasons I mentioned in post #161. You just can't risk anyone getting seriously injured or killed by extreme heat. Now for some of these tracks that run two races and that have lights, I'm not at all opposed to see then run one race under the sun and one under the lights, because that makes for two very different races. But I definately agree with you about the Daytona 500 being run entirely under the sun, DSFF. That's one thing that should never have been tampered with, unless Mother Nature intervened, or as was the case last year, the track tore up (which it also did in the 1978 Daytona 500 in the third and fourth turns, which caused three cut tires in that event). And that may be one reason that IMS has never even considered adding lighting, even though the Indianapolis 500 was televised in prime time from 1971-'85,until ABC finally saw the light and planned to televise that event live in 1986. So what happened? It was postponed twice before it was eventually run, ironically, at the fastest pace in the event's history to that point. 167. Eric posted: 07.12.2011 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree about the amount of night races need to be cut back depending on what track and what time of the year. Phoenix didn't have an excuse why it had night races in April. The historical high temperature there is in the high 80's during the day according to accuweather.com. for April. Chicagoland had an excuse for a night race if it happens in July. The people from states like Wisconsin have bodies that aren't used to temperatures in the 90's or 100's compare to southerners like DaleSrFanForever. On the other hand DaleSrFanForever's body would have a very difficult time to handle weather in Wisconsin in December or January because in those months, temperatures can reach single digits. Some years during the summer, Wisconsin has a lot of 90 plus degree days, but that isn't the case each year. Wisconsin has temperatures in the 90's or the 100's, but that state for the most part don't get a lot 90 degree weather before June and the last 90 plus degree day of the year happens in August or September. Texas doesn't have any excuse for having night races because of the time of year the races occur. 168. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2011 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes Eric, single digits or BELOW ZERO (sometimes double digits below zero) in the extreme northern part of the country, from the Rockies all the way to the Atlantic coast during the winter months. 169. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.12.2011 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yeah, the cars look prettier at night with the lights shining on the car, but the racing is normally worse. Do we need night races at Phoenix, Texas, Chicagoland, Kentucky, etc? We need to cut back on the night racing." I agree with this 100%. With the exception of Phoenix, those tracks have sub-par racing at best (which means there isn't much passing/battles for position) under any time of day, so simply holding it at night isn't going to improve anything. Quite honestly, I like night races when they only pop up here and there on the schedule like they did in the late 90's. Both Richmond races, the Coke 600 and The Winston, the Pepsi 400 at Daytona and the Summer Bristol race. Those were the only night races that were held at that time, and it was a treat to watch it because the races were actually good at those tracks then. We come to a night race possibly twice most months now, but I really don't care to count that right now because I've got better things on my mind. 170. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2011 - 7:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What West Coast fans? The majority of them I call "fahns." People who watch to appear glamorous (see the Kardashians). I would love an 11 AM start for the Daytona 400 on July 4 regardless of the day of the week. 171. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2011 - 7:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another cool idea would be to run Cup, NNS, and Truck races on the same day. One in Vegas, one in Kentucky, and one in Canada to prevent people from racing in more than one. I would also like to see the Trucks run a street course with IndyCar at some point; it would probably be a crummy wreckfest, but it would be an interesting finish, especially since that would be an affordable opportunity to see maybe some SCCA or NASA drivers road-ringing. They should also do like golf and go to the Midwest in the spring and fall when the weather is cooperative. 172. Anonymous posted: 07.13.2011 - 8:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with NicoRosbergFan about Nascar going to the Midwest in spring and fall. Chicagoland having a chase date helps in terms of the weather compare to when it was a July race day race before it turned into a night race. The July race was brutal in terms of temperatures when it was a daytime race for race fans that go to Chicagoland from Wisconsin unlike DaleSrFanForever may think. DaleSrFanForever is from NC and that means his body is accustom to hotter temperatures than the folks of Wisconsin are on a regular basis and doesn't know trying it can be. Before Chicagoland, the close cup race for fans from Wisconsin was Michigan. I went to the first Chicagoland Busch (now the Nationwide Series)and the first cup race there in 2001 and the temperature was anywhere from 95 to 100 degree at least there if I recalled correctly. I did drink powerade or gatorade (can't remember what product) and it did help some. While that stuff helps me from dehydration, my body isn't accustom to having weather that hot on a regular basis that thanks the high temps. in the 90's or 100's usually don't come before some point in June or July. Kansas isn't as north as Chicagoland and that means the temps. usually are not as cold there in terms some points of the year. That is where Kansas is debatable for being a night race. 173. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2011 - 9:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, you just insulted every racing fan on the west coast, of which I used to be one of, until I moved back east. There are many racing fans on the west coast. But the fans out there don't just like NASCAR, they like all forms of racing. And many of the greatest drivers have come from there, or call the west coast home. And they all started out as fans of the sport, so your comment about there not being that many fans on the west coast is absolutely ridiculous. As for your point on racing the Firecracker 400 on July 4, no matter what day of the week it fell on, you forgot one very important thing. Nobody is going to telecast a race live during the middle of the week, no matter how important it is. That's why it was moved off July 4 to begin with, so ESPN could televise it live, beginning in 1989. But NASCAR wanted the event on live network television, and the only way to do that without risking heat-related injuries for competitors, officials, and spectators was to move it to prime time, and so that move was made in 1998, but the race that year was postponed to mid-October, due to the Florida wildfires, and televised by TNN, making te 1999 race the first one televised live in prime time on a major network (CBS). It remained on network television until 2007, the first year of the current TV deal, which brought the race to TNT. And RCRandPenskeGuy, there are actually three night races in May, though there are none in June, two in July, one in in April and August, and there had been only one in the Chase this year (the fall race at Charlotte). Here's the night race schedule for 2011: (Tentative, changes possible due to Mother Nature) There will be two in September this year, I believe, but there were none in the first six races this year, but four in five weeks beginning with the April 30 race at Richmond. but after the race at Charlotte, the next night race was the Firecracker 400, then one the following week at Kentucky (which was last week). but the next night race won't be until the night race at Bristol, but that will be the first of three consecutive races at night, going through the fall race at Richmond. but there will be only one race run entirely under the lights during the Chase, the fall race at Charlotte, though the season finale will finish under the lights at Homestead. 174. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.13.2011 - 10:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "On the other hand DaleSrFanForever's body would have a very difficult time to handle weather in Wisconsin in December or January because in those months, temperatures can reach single digits." Dude, to me, 30 degrees is cold. That's why I don't go hunting. Sitting perfectly still in a tree stand on a frigid (by my standards) December early morning? My bones are starting to rattle just thinking about it. I have read the comments about the heat, and I have changed my mind about a few of the events. I'm now ok with the Kentucky race at night. My first thought was "well, with the traffic deal, you'd have to get there mid afternoon anyways", but you could go under the stands and cool off. There have been times, when they used to hold the Martinsville race on the last week of April, I have gone under the stands in the middle of the race for about 10 minutes just to cool off. I'm also ok with the Firecracker 400 at night for the west coast fans. We do have some really good fans out there, more than we realize. Unfortunately, for our Southern Cali fans, we give them races at Auto Club Speedway. Luckily, the track has finally worn out to the point where the racing is good at times. And we quit going there on Labor Day when the temps were 107 degrees. Plus, from what I hear, ACS is pretty far out of the way from where most Southern Cal folks live, so the legendarily bad attendance can't be blamed on lack of fan interest. But I think the Labor Day Atlanta race should be in the daytime. Most of us long for the return of the true Southern 500. This is about as close as we are going to get. A Southern track with a tire grinding surface for 500 miles. Make the drivers brave the suffocating Labor Day heat and humidity like in the past at Darlington. The fans in Atlanta should be able to handle it. I went to a few Southern 500s in the late 90s and they were BRUTAL. But that just went with the territory for us. I guess it was like a Green Bay Packers fan sitting on those metal seats at Lambeau when it is 3 degrees and the wind howling, only the opposite. Braving the elements made it more fun...... to talk about later. But I have some questions for our Mid Western fans. How is it for the Kansas dates in early June and late September? If I recall right, a few of those were pretty hot races. In the most recent one in June, they seemed pretty hot afterwards. I'm also curious about Chicago on their new date in mid September. Seems like it would still be pretty hot then. If still in the 90 degree range, then I'd be in favor of that race being at night. All I can tell you is, here in the South, it starts getting hot at least by mid April, sometimes earlier in the month, really heats up by Memorial Day, and by the time June starts, the suffocating humidity has kicked in, and it stays that way all the way until the end of September, sometimes well into October. October through December usually alternates between hot and cold, sometimes in the same day. It is nothing to have a morning where you have to scrape ice off your car windows in the morning, have to blast the AC in the car on the way home in the afternoon, then see your breath after the sun sets. January through March are very cold (by our standards). 175. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.13.2011 - 11:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing I really want to talk about: We lost Davey Allison 18 years ago today. That seems SO hard to belive. 18 years? I just want to take a moment to remember him. I would classify him as a legend. He only raced on the Cup circuit for 6 and 1/2 years, but won 19 races over that stretch. And he didn't have it THAT easy. His first two years were with the financially struggling Harry Ranier which brought a lot of uncertainty. But he still had Robert Yates building his engines and leading his team and had a lot of great, dedicated crew members. He won two races in his rookie year. The last unrestricted Dega race when they were running 210 mph, and a race at the tougher than hell Dover back when it was blacktop and 500 long, grueling miles. They didn't run the full schedule due to funding. The next year, he started off by finishing 2nd to his Dad in the famous '88 Daytona 500. But financial issues took their toll and they had a miserable first half, lowlighted by his Dad nearly dying at Pocono. They got it turned around with wins at Michigan and the first race on the new Richmond track. By the end of the year, Robert Yates bought the team and went into personal debt. 1989 was a transitional year. They won two plate races at Dega and the Fircracker 400 where Mark spun in front of the field, saved it, and caused BP to nearly jump out of his own skin (THAT'S THE DOGGONEDEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY LIFE!!!!!!). But they had to get used to the new structure with Robert and a new Thunderbird that, like it's couterpart at Chevy that was also introduced that year, the Lumina, wasn't very well designed. 1990 saw him win a thrilling duel at tough Bristol with Mark (a race that doesn't get the credit it deserves, start to finish one of the most compelling races ever) and the Fall Charlotte race, but it was a tough year. I remember going to the Fall Wilkesboro race, watching him spin out about 4 times, and thinking "that guy must not know how to drive". Of course I was just 6. 1991 was when my memories really kick in, and that is when Davey, at just age 30, showed what he is capable of. When he finally got a crew chief he had great chemistry with, Larry Mac, it allowed Robert to focus on running the organization and engine shop more closely because Larry had the driver and car under control. He won 5 races (tied for the most that year), The Winston, and struck fear into the 7 year old heart of this Earnhardt fan. 1992 could have its own book written it, just based on Davey's perspective. He won the Daytona 500, 5 total races (again tied for the most), The Winston, and came painfully close to winning the Winston Cup. All this despite the physical pain from FOUR bone crushing wrecks (Bristol, Martinsville, The Winston, and the awful wreck at Pocono), emotional pain from losing his grandfather (his best friend), then his brother, and the frustration of losing the Southern 500 and the Winston Million because one of his crew members mistakenly thought green on the weather radar was good. To accomplish what he did despite all that is legendary. Then, of course, 1993. Him and RYR were having a down year. Yet they still had a win and were 3rd in points (albeit a distant 3rd). Dale had a bad year in 1992, won just once over the entire season, and finished 12th in points. All that above is quite impressive right? But you also have to consider the era he was in. First of all, he blazed the trail for super rookies. No rookie before, not even Earnhardt in '79, made the impact Davey did in his rookie year. Secondly, they only raced 29 races per year back then, over half of which were on tracks 1.366 wiles or less, plus two road courses. Imagine if he got to race with that Yates horsepower nowadays with 36 races, most of which on tracks 1.5 miles or more. Add in his overall versatility (he won 4 short track races on 3 different tracks, a road course race, plate races, 4 races on 1 mile tracks, a couple of 1.5 mile track races, and 3 Michigan races) and we are looking at even better. His career was legendary based on everything I mentioned. He should be a NASCAR HOFer and soon, within the next 3 years. There is no telling what he would have accomplished. Remember, a driver's traditional prime is from about 30 to 44. Plus Yates really had got their stuff together. Consider how Ernie (somebody just as talented as Davey) ran in that 28 car in '94. And how DJ (somebody not as good as Davey) ran in Yates equipment in '96, '97, '99, and '01. And Yates was so good in 2004 (Davey would have been 43 that year) that ELLIOTT SADLER won twice, made the cha$e, and was relevant. I don't think he would have won the title in all 6 of those years, but I think 3 or 4 is undeniably a reality. We miss you Davey, but we remember you. A great guy, and a NASCAR legend. 176. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2011 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872: I sorry if I insulted you or anyone else. My point is that NASCAR is still claiming it is trying to "reach out" to fans who aren't there. The fan base on the west coast is the probably the same as on the east coast despite the overall population difference, but NASCAR keeps striving to make a run for western cities that aren't biting. It is the same problem hockey is having right now in the South and West. They are desperate to say that they have "X" city with a franchise just for glamour and not for the fans. Once again, sorry. 177. Scott B posted: 07.13.2011 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In addition to Davey's on-track stats, he was also highly respected as a man by his competitors, by the fans, and by everyone he came in contact with. RIP Davey. As far as the schedule... back in the mid-60's barnstorming days, NASCAR had a summer "Northern Swing" built into the schedule when they'd visit New Jersey, Pennsylvania, New York and such. That was at a time when racing was still considered mostly a Southern sport, and most of the race dates were in the South. Funny how that was lost over the years, as the sport tried to diverisfy geographically... it should have become easier to work into the schedule. 178. 00andJoe posted: 07.13.2011 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) R.I.P. Davey. News: Erik Darnell will be driving the #46 this weekend. Other news: Jeff Stec has his name added to the list of criminal ex-car-owners (loan fraud). 179. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.13.2011 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You are right Scott. Davey definitely made an impact on the NASCAR fan base. He was somebody they could really relate to. He offered two major things to the fans (besides being accessable and very friendly to us). One, he represented a link to the past, carrying on the Allison name proudly and grabbing the flag as the new leader of the Alabama Gang. Two, for those who were tired of Dale's domination, he was a true threat to his throne, and may have taken it in '94 and there after instead of Jeff taking it '95. Especially Ford fans. Bill was fading (with the exception of '92), Junior Johnson was on the down slide (ditto for '92), the Wood Brothers were already a shell of their former selves, and Bud Moore fell way behind the times. His impact is undeniable. 180. 00andJoe posted: 07.13.2011 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two cars added to the NHIS entry list (now 48 cars): #30 Stremme #92 Setzer 181. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2011 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You mentioned that Junior Johnson was fading in 1992, when Bill Elliott won five race and finished second in the points that year. what you don't realize is that Johnson's team had actually been fading since 1985, the year of Darrell waltrip's and Johnson's last championship. by 1985, not only was Elliott's Ford dominating, due to the aerodynamic advantage the Ford had experienced since 1983 (it didn't really show until the Fords got the horsepower to match the GM cars, which occurred in 1985), but Johnson's team was even having trouble keeping up with some of te other GM teams, teams that, as recently as 1984, they had been running circles around. after all, Waltrip won seven times in 1984, but another Chevrolet driver, Terry Labonte, won the championship, with Harry Gant, in another Chevy finishing the season in the runner-up spot. But in 1985, Johnson's team, for some reason, fell well behind some of the other GM teams. not only did you have Labonte and Gant running well in Chevrolets, but also Dale Earnhardt in his Richard Childress Chevy, but you also had the Pontiacs of Mike Curb (Richard Petty) amd Raymond Beadle (Tim Richmond, who did not win in 1985), the Buick of DiGard Racing (Bobby Allison), and others that Johnson's team had run circles around were now beating or keeping up with them. In 1985, Waltrip won the title, but only because Elliott's team pulled off the biggest champiohnship choke in history. Darrell won only three times, his fewest since 1976, and only won three times again in 1986, finishing second in points, while Earnhardt (5 wins) and Tim Richmond (7 wins) had superior equipment to what Johnson was putting on the track. After 1986, both Waltrip and Neil Bonnett left, and Johnson scaled back his tean to one driver, Terry Labonte, whose style of racing couldn't have been any more different that Johnson's. Still, Labonte was moderately successful, but wasn't the driver that Johnson thought he'd be, and he replaced him with Geoff Bodine, who was cut more from Junior's cloth (but not entirely). Bodine had his best season in 1990, winning three times and finishing third in points, but when Johnson went back to a two-car team in 1991, his team really floundered, winning only once, the fall race at Charlotte with Bodine, though the fact that Bodine had been injured early in the year didn't help the team's chances that year. (Ironically, he was more successful with Bud Moore in 1992 than he was with Johnson in 1991.) Johnson hired Elliott, who won five times in 1992, including four consecutive early in the year, but Johnson went winless in 1993 before having a comeback season in 1994, winning three times, once with Elliott in the 1994 Southern 500 (Johnson's sixth win in that event as a car owner/crew chief, a record at that time) and twice with Jimmiy Spencer, winning both restrictor plqate races in July, though the legality of those two wins came into question during SpeedWeeks 1995. (In Spencer's Talladega win, teammate Elliott finished second, giving Johnson a 1-2 finish.) However, Spencer reaggravated a shoulder injury at the first Brickyard 400 shortly after his Talladega win, and he was out of Johnson's car at season's end. Elliott moved on to a team he helped start, and he never won for it. Johnson hired Brett Bodine in a somewhat questionable move, as well as Loy Allen, Jr. to replace Spencer in an even worse move. Realizing that neither move was going to pay off, and tiring of the sport he helped build, Johnson sold both his teams, and in 1996, was out of the sport, never to return in an official capacity again. 182. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.14.2011 - 12:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I always wonder how different NASCAR would have been if Davey Allison had been able to race his entire career. I was only 3 years old when he died, so I never got to watch him. I've had to go watch races on ESPN Classic and on YouTube to see him in action. The same can be said for others, such as Tim Richmond and Alan Kulwicki. 183. RaceFanX posted: 07.14.2011 - 1:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael Waltrip had a retro-DW "Terminal Trucking-era" paint job for this race to pay tribute to his brother's NASCAR HoF induction. Shame he didn't make the field. 184. Eric posted: 07.14.2011 - 10:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRandPenskeGuy, There wouldn't be a chain of events that wouldn't have happen back in the 1990's for Nascar. Ernie Irvan wouldn't have left Morgan-McClure during the 1993 season. It would have opened the question if Ernie would have left Morgan-McClure when Rudd was leaving Hendrick. It also would also have the question if Terry Labonte would have taken over the 5 car after Rudd left. I brought up Ernie going to Hendrick because Ernie in 1993 felt Morgan-McClure wasn't good enough to win a cup championship. I think Dale Jarrett would have stayed in the 18 car for Gibbs after 1994. That also meant Bobby Labonte wouldn't have been with JBR from 1995 to 2005 besides not winning the 2000 championship. I think it would have been Davey Allison's or Dale Earnhardt Sr.'s cup championship. Davey Allison himself could have had a chance to win the cup championships from 1996 to 2002 at least. 1997, 1999, 2000 and 2001 would have been years that Davey would have had a big shot winning the championship. I think Larry McReynolds wouldn't have left for RCR after 1996. The only question that wouldn't have been answered is when Robert Yates Racing would have had a 2nd cup team and what driver. 185. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2011 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, you are right about Junior. It was subtle, but the decline had begun by 85 even though they won the championship. If the 9 team were just "bad" at the short tracks instead of "woefully putrid" they would have won the title. They had a big resurgence in 92 when Junior and Bill were both rejuvenated by one another and every non Ford team seemed to forget how to drive. But it was bad from there. Eric you have a great point about the dominoes that fell as a result of losing Davey. 186. Anonymous85 posted: 07.14.2011 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well The 9 teams choking away the title was pretty bad but for a bigger championship choke look no further then Denny Hamlin and the 11 team throwing the championship away in the final 2 races watching that Phoenix race for about 80 percent of the event with each passing lap I thought for sure that he would win the race and would have a secure enough points lead to win the championship then came the final part of the race which DSFF has given a more detailed Analysis about the blunders Hamlin and crew Chief Mike Ford made there and in the following race at Homestead which would cost them the title. So to make a long story short it wasn't that Jimmie Johnson Managed to win another championship It was the fact that Denny Hamlin and the 11 team Manged to lose a championship and that's the bottom line cause Stone Cold Said So 187. Talon64 posted: 07.14.2011 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Newman's driver rating of 85.5 is the 3nd worst by a driver to finish in the top 5 of a race this season, behind David Ragan's 82.7 in his 4th place finish at Richmond and Joey Logano's 71.5 in his 3rd place finish in the Coke 600. (doesn't include plate races) But Jeff Gordon finished 10th with a driver rating of 75.2, so they both share my new Backed-Into-It award for driver(s) who didn't have a great race (by the standards of driver ratings) but managed to get a good finish at the end somehow. 188. Red posted: 07.14.2011 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great idea, Talon! Excluding plate races, Joey Logano also has by far the lowest Driver Rating for a race winner. His 2009 Loudon win scored only an 84.0, while the next worst was Jeremy Mayfield's 2005 fuel mileage win in Michigan, coming in at 94.0, followed by Kevin Harvick's win in this year's Coke 600, at 94.4. The worst ever Driver Rating for a winner was by Jeff Gordon in the 2007 Talladega fall race, scoring a lowly 76.9. That figure is deceiving, though, because Jeff layed back most of the race, but his car was much better than that. The worst ever Driver Rating for a top-5 finisher was David Ragan in the 2007 Daytona 500. His average running position was a dismal 34th, and he was NOT laying back on purpose. He somehow dodged all the crashes and lucked into a 5th place finish, scoring a 52.4 in the process. The best Driver Rating for a sub-40th place finish was by Greg Biffle in the 2006 spring Fontana race, as he led 168 laps but lost an engine and finished 42nd. His rating was 120.1, which is about the average for a race winner. I have the race-by-race Driver Ratings for every full-time driver since 2005 loaded into Excel, so if anybody wants something looked up, I can access it very quickly. 189. Cooper posted: 07.14.2011 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey Talon, I have the point standings done by driver rating. It's pretty ground breaking stuff. It really is a good tool to see what teams are doing well compared to where they actually finish. For example, Kasey Kahne is 12th and Martin Truex is 14th in my standings, compared to their actual spots of 17th and 23rd. And Dale Jr. has still failed to finish in the Top 5 driver rating category in any race this year. In reality he has hasn't run that good. But good driving late in races is what has them in the Top 10. By driver rating Kyle has 4 wins, 10 Top 5's and 15 Top 10's. Remarkable. 190. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.15.2011 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, that's a great post talking about all the situations that happened as a result of losing Davey. If Davey had still been around, he would have been in that car for a long time, which means DJ probably would have been stuck making a career for himself at JGR, Ernie Irvan probably would have went to Hendrick unless Rick decides to still hire Texas Terry. Even if the latter happened, Irvan would have found another good ride eventually with the talent he had. 191. cjs3872 posted: 07.15.2011 - 9:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, it wasn't that every non-Ford team forgot how to perform in 1992, it was just that Ford had a sizeble advantage for practically the entire year. In fact, only four GM drivers won more than once that year, and two of those drivers never won again after '92, Darrell Waltrip, who won three times, and Harry Gant, who won twice, both in fuel mileage events. The only other drivers in a GM car to win more than once that year was Ernie Irvan, who, like Waltrip, won three times, and Kyle Petty, who won more than once for the only time in his career, but one of those wins, his victory at Watkins Glen, was ended due to ran just six lap past the halfway mark, as that race ran just about 125 miles. Also, Anonymous85, Elliott's choke in 1985 was far worse than Hamlin's last year. When Elliott won the Southern 500 at Darlington to win the Winston Million, which was his tenth win of the season, he held a 206-point lead over Waltrip (who finished 17th) with eight races to go in the season (there were only 28 races in 1985), and Neil Bonnett, Waltrip's teammate was the only other driver within 400 points of the lead (-296). however, just four races later, Waltrip, who finished a pedestrian 14th, seven laps behind the leaders, at North Wilkesboro, nonetheless took the point lead from Elliott in that very event, and never looked back, taking his third championship. 192. Anonymous posted: 07.15.2011 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous85, Bill Elliott's choke jobs in 1985 and 1992 are much worse than Hamlin's last year. Hamlin had a small choke last year. Hamlin was only up 33 points after Texas last year. That is not a lot room for an error or being off by fuel mileage. Ford and Hamlin screw up at homestead, but they were not up by a lot of points to begin with after Texas. Having the wrong strategy at some of the chase races last year by going conservative because Hamlin didn't had a great track record at some of the tracks in the chase is what got Hamlin. Hamlin finishing 12 at Kansas during the chase last year and Johnson finished 2nd in that race. I argue that race had more of an impact on why Johnson won. Johnson gained 43 points on Hamlin from that race. Kansas was not a great track for Hamlin before 2011 anyway. Ford and Hamlin decided to go conservative at Kansas because Hamlin didn't have a good track there going into the race.Hamlin only had finished in the top top there once from 2005 to 2010 and that was 5th place finish as Kansas in 2009. Ford and Hamlin also went conservative at Dover and I think at Charlotte also. Hamlin going into that race didn't have a top 10 finish at Charlotte since the 2007 600. Dover was a track that Hamlin had a 5 race stretch that he was 22 or worse before the 2010 spring race at Dover. 193. 00andJoe posted: 07.15.2011 - 11:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NHIS update: the #50 and #77 have withdrawn. 194. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.15.2011 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You are right, the Fords definitely had an advantage in '92. But still, the drivers and teams that would finish 1-2 in '93 were 12th and 13th in '92. The Fords were dominant, but they had some help. I rank Denny and Mike Ford's choke last year over Bill's. After the Southern 500, they only had two more races at tracks more than 1 mile (Charlotte and Atlanta). The schedule favored Darrell. Yes, you would definitely expect them to be able to hold on to a 200 point lead even though the tracks weren't really their strong suit. But the situation set itself up for that. With 3 short tracks, two 1 milers, and a road course, it is somewhat understandable. Even though Bill had won in the past at Riverside and Rockingham, and won the earlier Dover race, it favored Darrell. Now Denny, on the other hand, was playing right into his wheelhouse with Phoenix and Homestead. Phoenix is a flat short track. Denny had swept the Martinsville races and won the Fall Richmond race, which are both flat short tracks. And he was the defending Homestead winner, and had won both Texas races, another 1.5 mile track. All with the spoiler. Ever since the spoiler switch, JJ had only won at a road course, a flat short track, and a high banked 1 miler. It was all there for Denny and Mike. And they blew it. 195. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2011 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In fact, DSFF, Elliott had won at Rockingham and had lapped the field at Dover earlier that season. Both won one race down the stretch that season. Waltrip won late in the season at Rockingham, but Elliott retaliated with one of his own at Atlanta. But a key to Waltrip's championship that season was never finishing far behind Elliott (at least in the final rundown) in several of the races that Elliott won. Case in point was the Daytona 500. Elliott ran virtually every big name out of that race, but Waltrip was a rare exception. Struggling all day with a slow car, even compared to his teammate Neil Bonnett, who blew up in the very late stages of that event, Waltrip somehow wound up third, and that was the case for a number of Elliott's wins that year, as Elliott seldom gained a lot of points on Waltrip in the races that he won. On the other hand, when Elliott had problems, Waltrip took full advantage. when Waltrip won the 600 for the third time, Elliott could do no better than 18th. And when Waltrip won at Richmond, Elliott could do no better than 12th. (He did finish fourth when Waltrip won at Rockingham.) Meanwhile, in Elliott's wins, Waltrip finished third (Daytona), 16th, and would have been better if not for a late blown engine (spring Atlanta), second (spring Darlington), 24th (spring Talladega), fifth (spring Dover), third (both Pocono races), second (both Michigan races), 17th (Southern 500), and third (fall Atlanta). For those keeping score, in Elliott's 11 wins, Waltrip finished second three times, third four times, and only finished worse than fifth three times. The key stat, as I mentioned in post #191 was that in the race that he took the points lead, Waltrip could only muster a 14th-place finish at North Wilkesboro, a track that he and his team had thoroughly dominated over the years, because Elliott only beat one car that day. And Waltrip had overcome a 206-point deficit in only FOUR races, making it the worst collapswe in championship history. (It's noteworthy that Jeff Gordon almost blew that reocrd for the worst collapse out of the water in 1995, finishing only 34 points ahead of dale Earnhardt, Sr., despite having a 309-point lead with only four races left in the season.) 196. PJ1989 posted: 07.16.2011 - 5:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Now Denny, on the other hand, was playing right into his wheelhouse with Phoenix and Homestead. Phoenix is a flat short track. Denny had swept the Martinsville races and won the Fall Richmond race, which are both flat short tracks. And he was the defending Homestead winner, and had won both Texas races, another 1.5 mile track. All with the spoiler. Ever since the spoiler switch, JJ had only won at a road course, a flat short track, and a high banked 1 miler. It was all there for Denny and Mike. And they blew it." Phoenix is a short track now? Richmond is flat? And so what if he was the defending Homestead winner, Jimmie Johnson is the best 1.5 mile driver in NASCAR history. He finished 2nd to Denny at Texas in the spring. He finished 3rd in that fall Richmond race. He never tries to win Homestead because he's always busy winning a championship, but even so he still finished 2nd in that race, and has 3 other top 5's, and 6 top 10's at that track overall. You're trying to paint this picture that somehow Denny Hamlin is a class above Jimmie Johnson at these tracks, and that's just not the case. Need I bring up Johnson's finishes in the 2010 Chase? It started average, with a 25th, but then he locked it down with a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 5th, 2nd. Denny Hamlin didn't hand him anything, Johnson won it by being the best at all these tracks, as he has been for years now. He wins at them more often than Hamlin, or anyone else. I know you like to get off on this idea that somehow Hamlin pulled off the biggest choke in sports history, but get over yourself and start giving Johnson the credit he deserves for being dominant. This wasn't even a weak Chase for him. The fact that Hamlin even came close to winning a championship during the most dominant 5 year run by any driver in NASCAR history should be impressive to anyone that has eyes and a brain. If you want to blame anyone for this so-called "collapse", blame Mike Ford and his math skills. 197. Eric posted: 07.16.2011 - 10:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, 1 mile tracks are not short tracks. A race track has to be less than a mile to be a short track. The only short tracks on the cup schedule are Bristol, Martinsville, and Richmond. 198. Cooper posted: 07.16.2011 - 11:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Disagree Eric. I consider Loudon, Phoenix, Dover as short tracks. A Richmond setup would work better at Phoenix than a Speedway setup. A Bristol setup would work better at Dover than a Speedway setup. A Martinsville setup would work better at Loudon than a Speedway setup. But it's just personal opinion. 199. Spen posted: 07.16.2011 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I put one-mile tracks in their own category "short intermediates" or "overgrown short tracks". But taken individually, Loudon and Phoenix fall into the later definition, and Dover and Rockingham are in the former. And by the way, 14 degrees of banking is fairly flat by NASCAR standards. I call 20 the cut off point between high and low banking. 200. Anonymous posted: 07.16.2011 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 200 comments! 201. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2011 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK, replace "short tracks" with "1 mile or less" tracks and "flat" for "14 degrees or less". Seriously, are we getting into a game of semantics? How anyone can say those last two races in 2010 didn't play more into Denny's wheelhouse than JJ's is beyond me. 202. JimBeam posted: 07.16.2011 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How anyone can say those last two races in 2010 didn't play more into Denny's wheelhouse than JJ's is beyond me." Ummm, how about because Johnson has 4 wins at Phoenix, Hamlin has none? Johnson has something like 15 or 16 mile and half wins, and Hamlin has 3, and two of which were at Texas? And Johnson was a 4 time champion at the time, Hamlin was contending for his first, and the points lead was essentially one slow Hamlin pit stop away from being Johnson's? The fact that Denny Hamlin's fuel mileage cost him a bundle of points at Phoenix, not his ability to out-race Johnson? I mean what other reason do you need? We get it, you hate Hamlin. But that doesn't excuse you from being an irrational biased retard. 203. Anonymous posted: 07.16.2011 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "OK, replace "short tracks" with "1 mile or less" tracks and "flat" for "14 degrees or less". Seriously, are we getting into a game of semantics? How anyone can say those last two races in 2010 didn't play more into Denny's wheelhouse than JJ's is beyond me." Well, besides all the things others have mentioned, like Johnson's superiority on 1.5 mile tracks as well as 1 mile tracks like Phoenix, I got more stats to pile on. Since I know DaleSrFan is living in a world where the change from the wing to the spoiler makes all previous success or data at a track completely moot, I went ahead and ran the numbers of Johnson and Hamlin's stats on 1.5 and 1 mile tracks from the introduction of the spoiler until the final two races of the season. Avg finish on 1.5 mile tracks w/ spoiler (excluding final race at Homestead): Johnson - 11.5 (2, 37, 25, 3, 2, 2, 9) Hamlin - 12.4 (1, 18, 8, 43, 12, 4, 1) (Wow, talk about dominance from Hamlin! Those two Texas wins means he should have led every friggin lap at Homestead!) Avg finish on 1 mile tracks with spoiler (excluding 2nd race at Phoenix): Johnson - 9.2 (3, 16, 1, 25, 1) Hamlin - 11.8 (30, 4, 14, 2, 9) (Even more dominance from Hamlin! Just ignore Johnson's win at Loudon and his 4 previous wins at Phoenix) ZOMG!!!! Clearly Denny Hamlin was just blowing Johnson away on these types of tracks all season!!! CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE CHOKE! So add that to the fact that Johnson was higher in the points prior to the Chase, because he was more consistent than Hamlin all season, and the fact that Johnson has a better record and way more wins at tracks like Phoenix and Homestead, aaaaaaand the fact that he's the best closer, the best under pressure, and was a 4 time straight champion, CLEARLY this was Hamlin's title to lose. I mean, how could he not hold that slim lead of just a couple of positions on the track, against one of the top 5 drivers of all time, with arguably the greatest crew chief we've seen in decades, during a season when Johnson was better and more consistent at the types of tracks composing the final two races of the season, in which DaleSrFanForever steadfastly believes Denny Hamlin should have blown him away? CHOKER!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! HAMLIN CHOKES BIGGEST CHOKE IN SPORTS HISTORY HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!! Of course, none of this will mean anything to DaleSr "I'm stubborn as a mule" FanForever. When he gets an idea of a driver in his head, no amount of statistical evidence contrary to that idea will EVER change his mind. 204. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2011 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Technically, Bristol, Martinsville, and Richmond are the only short tracks on the Cup circuit, but Phoenix (before the reconfiguation) and New Hampshire can also be legitmately called "short tracks", because of the nature of those tracks. However, I don't consider Dover a short track, simply because of the width of the racing groove, as well as the 155 MPH+ lap speeds in qualifying, and the 170 MPH+ straightaway speeds, hardly what you would see on a short track. I also wonder how the reconfiguring of the track at Phoenix for the race near the end of the season will change that, since a faster track with a wider racing groove may be the ultimate outcome of the reconfiguring, as was the case for Las Vegas when it was reconfigured about four years ago. 205. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2011 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And here are my rebuttal stats for spoiler races heading into Phoenix last year: Wins on "tracks 1 mile or less" with "14 degrees of banking or less": Denny: 3, JJ: 1 Laps led on "tracks 1 mile or less" with "14 degrees of banking or less": Denny: 463, JJ: 129 Wins on 1.5 mile tracks: Denny: 2, JJ: 0 Laps led on 1.5 mile tracks: Denny: 121, JJ: 191 206. JimBeam posted: 07.16.2011 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wins on "tracks 1 mile or less" with "14 degrees of banking or less": Denny: 3, JJ: 1" Do you just not know anything about racing, or do you honestly think that success at Richmond and Martinsville automatically means success at Phoenix? I'm hoping for the former. Because if you honestly believe the latter you're even dumber than I thought. And wow, Denny Hamlin led a bunch of laps on short tracks that have nothing to do with either of the tracks we're talking about! Whoopity do! "Wins on 1.5 mile tracks: Denny: 2, JJ: 0" Does it mean nothing that Johnson finished 2nd in one of those wins? And ran top 10 in the other? How is this one track, Texas, supposed to be the bellwether as to how a driver does at Homestead? Do they have identical banking? An identical layout? Identical set-ups? And why, for the love of god, does the change from the wing to the spoiler negate everything these drivers have ever done at these tracks? That's the most important question. Why does that change negate all the team notes, driver experience, and overall driver ability at these tracks? Because the only reason I see for such dumb reasoning, is it just helps your increasingly poorly defended point that Denny Hamlin is supposed to be a better driver than Jimmie Johnson because of slightly, barely better success in just a couple of races during the course of just of couple of months in one single season. 207. StevenWallaceCan'tDrive posted: 07.16.2011 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And here are my rebuttal stats for spoiler races heading into Phoenix last year: Wins on "tracks 1 mile or less" with "14 degrees of banking or less": Denny: 3, JJ: 1 Laps led on "tracks 1 mile or less" with "14 degrees of banking or less": Denny: 463, JJ: 129 Wins on 1.5 mile tracks: Denny: 2, JJ: 0 Laps led on 1.5 mile tracks: Denny: 121, JJ: 191" LOL!!!! So every track a mile or less with 14 degrees of banking or less is the same now? So you can use the same setup from Phoenix at a quarter mile track with no banking? Sure, there isn't one on the schedule, but by your reasoning, that would be the case. Even if that quarter mile track had perfectly square corners! Because like you said, it doesn't matter what a tracks individual characteristics are, every single one that is under a certain length and certain banking is the same. Success on one = success on another. Martinsville = Richmond = Phoenix = Loudon = Iowa = Nashville = Millwaukee = are you freaking serious? I'm sure if we asked all the drivers they'd certainly agree with you.....NOT. Maybe you want to rethink that one. And to you, every single 1.5 mile track is the same? Really? No way you can be that ignorant of how these cars run and the tracks themselves. I refuse to believe anyone, even a Dale Earnhardt fan, could be that ignorant. 208. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.17.2011 - 10:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Historically, those who do well at Phoenix, Loudon, Richmond, or Martinsville do well at the others as well. Examples: Rusty (93-98), Jeff Burton (97-00), DJ (97-01), Gordon (95-99, 03-07), JJ (03-09), Kurt (02-05), Smoke (99-06), June (03-06). 209. Anonymous posted: 07.17.2011 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Historically, those who do well at Phoenix, Loudon, Richmond, or Martinsville do well at the others as well. Examples: Rusty (93-98), Jeff Burton (97-00), DJ (97-01), Gordon (95-99, 03-07), JJ (03-09), Kurt (02-05), Smoke (99-06), June (03-06)." You are really reaching now. Pick a bunch of a drivers that were winning a lot of races in their prime, then trying to say that means Denny Hamlin is guaranteed to follow that same success in just one single season. Did these guys run well at all of these tracks, every single time, in every single season you listed? And what exactly does this actually have to do with Denny Hamlin? Because I don't see any connection whatsoever. Nothing these drivers have done has any effect on Denny Hamlin. And that still has nothing to do with your belief that every 1.5 mile track is the same. You're getting further and further away from something resembling a coherent argument. Bu bu bu bu but Denny Hamlin is the biggest choker in NASCAR history!!!!!! Give me a break. 210. JimBeam posted: 07.17.2011 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Historically, those who do well at Phoenix, Loudon, Richmond, or Martinsville do well at the others as well. Examples: Rusty (93-98), Jeff Burton (97-00), DJ (97-01), Gordon (95-99, 03-07), JJ (03-09), Kurt (02-05), Smoke (99-06), June (03-06)." Funny how you mention Johnson in that list, while you're trying to prove that Denny Hamlin is supposed to a class above him at these types of tracks. You thought you could get away with cutting off his streak at 09, but that's just you trying to cover up the fact you have no leg to stand on here. Johnson won Loudon in 2010, and if you're going to try to tell me he isn't still Denny Hamlin's equal at Martinsville, well you're just wrong. Hamlin and Johnson are the only ones better than everyone else at Martinsville. But I still don't think that has any bearing on Phoenix whatsoever. They're laid out different, different banking, different corners, one is twice as long as the other, so that doesn't make any difference anyway. Just because they fit into your definition of "flat" makes no difference. If you're going to stretch to be able to use that as part of your argument, then I get to use the fact that Johnson has 4 wins at Phoenix and has been the best driver there for years now. And still waiting on your reasoning for why every 1.5 mile track is exactly the same, and success at one equals success at all the others (and bear in mind Johnson is the master of the 1.5 mile tracks if you're going to try to argue that point further) 211. the_man posted: 07.18.2011 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on an eighth place finish: 'This is a good finish for our UPS team. It could have very well been a different finish, but our UPS team worked hard all night in the pits. They didn't give up and Drew made some great calls. Consistency is what we need each week to put ourselves in a position to make the Chase. I'm proud of our guys and I'm looking forward to New Hampshire." 212. Talk4Tar posted: 07.26.2011 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Phoenix is a short track now?" Everyone and their mother has been saying you drive Phoenix like you would a "short track." 213. Robert Nelson posted: 07.12.2012 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Kyle Busch 179 Carl Edwards 171 Matt Kenseth 138 214. chevyfan98 posted: 11.16.2016 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Welcome back to NASCAR (yay!), we'll be right back after the break. (aww...) 215. Spen posted: 12.26.2016 - 7:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No one's bothered to mention that this was David Reutimann's last top 5? 216. RaceFanX posted: 12.31.2017 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin finishes 22nd in his only Cup race at Kentucky Speedway. Martin choose not to run this race in 2012 and 2013 during his part-time campaigns to close out his career. Not only was this David Reutimann's final top-5, it was also the only one he posted during the 2011 season. 217. JSPorts posted: 01.01.2018 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm pretty sure Mark sitting out in 2012/13 was a Michael decision, not a Mark decision. Waltrip failed to qualify for this races after it was rained out. As a Kentucky native, he really wanted to drive in this race, so he took the locked-in 55 car for 2012. Then Mark kept the same schedule for 2013, so Vickers just drove in that race. 218. Bodyblower posted: 03.22.2020 - 12:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 55 team that debuted at Loudon was supposed to debut in this race but withdrew without announcing a driver. 219. SweetRich posted: 06.29.2020 - 9:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The commentators were Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty. The pit road reporters were Matt Yocum, Marty Snider, Ralph Sheheen and Chris Neville. 220. Rich posted: 12.15.2020 - 7:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joining the race coverage were Larry McReynolds as the in-race analyst and Lindsay Czarniak as the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: