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  *Comments on the 2011 Lenox Industrial Tools 301:*
  View the most recent comment <#212> | Post a comment <#post>


  1.   Talon64 posted:
  07.15.2011 - 5:47 pm
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Ryan Newman wins his 47th career Cup pole, moving him ahead of Junior
Johnson into 10th all time by himself.

It's his 11th consecutive season with a pole, tying him with Bobby
Allison for the 8th longest streak all time. It's also the 2nd longest
active streak, behind only Jeff Gordon's 19 straight seasons.

Newman extends his NHMS record for poles to 5, and was the 1st Cup
driver to record a lap over 135 mph in qualifying.

Tony Stewart joins Newman in the 135 mph club and on the front row for
his best start of the season and 4th top 3 start in the last 5 Loudon
races.


  2.   Talon64 posted:
  07.15.2011 - 5:48 pm
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Here's Bruton's Smith rant from a press conference today. Some
entertainingly stupid stuff here.

http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/6773465/nascar-bruton-smith-ego-cost-big


  3.   00andJoe posted:
  07.15.2011 - 6:19 pm
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Front Row Motorsports has three cars in the race for the first time
since Daytona (the #37 having been operated since Phoenix by Larry
Gunselman's Max Q Racing).

Erik Darnell qualifies for his first race since Homestead 2009.

Scott Wimmer qualified the #7, Robby Gordon is expected to race the car.


  4.   martin-n-rusty posted:
  07.16.2011 - 2:44 am
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Talon, I honestly think Burton Smith is starting to go the way of Al
Davis, and just starting to go totally senile.


  5.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.16.2011 - 11:53 am
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What did anyone think about Golden Tate's racing tweets? I am actually
inclined to agree with him that racers aren't athletes (even though I am
a rabid racing fan). What talent is there really when it takes less
steering for a driver to negotiate the hairpin at Sonoma than it does
for John Doe to change lanes on the highway. Literally! Watch the in
cars at Martinsville! They turn the steering wheel a whole 20 degrees. I
have to rotate at least 1.5 times to make a left turn at an intersection.


  6.   Cooper posted:
  07.16.2011 - 12:13 pm
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Are football players athletes? They run around for five seconds then
take a 40 second break...I played football as a kid and in high school.
It doesn't take a lot of athletic ability (except WR/RB/DB) to be a good
football player. As far as athletic talent goes, football players are on
the lower echelon.

Are baseball players athletes? They go up to the plate once every hour
and then stand in the outfield for an inning. I really thought the
players from the 90's were pretty good, until I realized that half of
them were on steroids. A lot of athletic ability needed to play this
game....

There is a reason these two sports are not in the Olympics...

Who cares if NASCAR is a sport? People who use that as an insult,
usually are people jealous that this sport is popular and that people
like it.

My friends said the exact same thing as Golden Tate. I asked them if
they ever watched a race, they're response...NO. How can you make a
statement about something, if you have absolutely no clue about it. You
can't.


  7.   V12 Matra posted:
  07.16.2011 - 12:41 pm
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I have an opinion that surfing, mountaineering, auto and motorcycle
racing, cycling, and the majority of extreme sports are far more a sport
than stick and ball like Baseball and American BeerCommercialBreakBall.
I played Baseball when I was 10 years old,easy. I could never race cars,
surf or climb mountains though.


  8.   V12 Matra posted:
  07.16.2011 - 12:44 pm
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Plus, perhaps Mr. Tate should ask Shaquille O Neal about race car
drivers being athletes, after his run with Dale Jr last year as he had
some very choice words for anybody that said race car drivers were NOT
athletes.


  9.   Corndog posted:
  07.16.2011 - 5:04 pm
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Jimmie Johnson could easily run a ten yard route, not get thrown the
football, and then sit down on the bench for twenty minutes while the
other offense had their possession. I'm pretty sure Golden Tate couldn't
run the Coca-Cola 600 if he tried.


  10.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.16.2011 - 5:24 pm
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Looks like Newman found some of his old "Rocketman" magic with the #39
team. I always thought that nickname for him was so stupid, although he
did do a good job racking up poles early in his career. Of course it
helped him that Penske jumped WAY ahead of the curve for a while in
terms of speed/fuel mileage. Speaking of Penske's team, they have seemed
to improve more every year since their disasterous year of 2008 ended. I
can see them building their way back up to dominate status like they
were when Rusty was there. And with drivers like Kurt and Brad, I have a
good feeling about Penske Racing's future.


  11.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.16.2011 - 6:20 pm
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I would say more about Golden Tate's comments if I took him more
seriously. He is a bench warmer for Seattle over their past two years
with 21 total catches and zero touchdowns. Seriously, his comments just
showed ignorance. If people don't want to recognize that it takes a very
special skill set to be a race car driver, then that is their issue.

Ryan Newman is currently closing in on the record for most consecutive
poles without a winning from the pole. The most is Geoff Bodine, 3
ahead. I find that appropriate. In some ways, personality wise, I see
Ryan as a much less talented Geoff Bodine. They both think they are a
lot smarter than they really are.

And yes, Bruton's comments were insulting and ridiculous. He blamed
everyone except for his own company. When asked why they didn't give
straight up refunds to people who purchased tickets but didn't get to
come to the track, he said "We don't want to". Wow. Just wow. Here is an
excellent article about that comment, and how it is a microcasm for the
leadership issues facing NASCAR, something we have discussed frequently
on this board.

http://racingwithrich.com/?p=1471


  12.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.16.2011 - 6:38 pm
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I have been on 16 hour car rides in 90 degree heat start to finish at
least a dozen times in my life. All playing football, basketball, and
driving a car takes is endurance and training, not being athletic. I
just threw it out to see what people thought. To me, the greatest skill
of all is being to take a so-so racecar and go fast by using a good line.


  13.   Red posted:
  07.16.2011 - 7:45 pm
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Ryan has failed to convert his last 34 poles into wins (!), which I
believe is the longest such streak in NASCAR history. I don't know if
that's more amazing or pathetic.


  14.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.16.2011 - 7:48 pm
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Red, I believe it's more of the latter. That would be embarrassing for
any driver, no matter who it is.


  15.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.16.2011 - 7:58 pm
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I wonder if, with Kyle Busch's NNS win, which gives him a total of 100
wins in NASCAR's top three series, which is and should be considered an
UNOFFICIAL stat, as well as tying Mark Martin's record of 49 NNS wins,
which is a real and legitimate stat, I wonder if this may be the week
that another win record falls, as Jeff Gordon, with his next win, will
set a new modern-era record with 85 wins.

Frankly, I think it would be more appropriate if he were to finish in
the top 5 in this race, but not win, as a top 5 would tie Dale
Earnhardt, Sr.'s modern record of 281 top 5 finishes. If that were to
happen, wouldn't it be something if he then wins at the Brickyard? That
would set three all-time standards at once. He would set the modern win
record with 85, the modern top 5 record with 282, as well as being the
first driver to ever win on the IMS oval five times, in the centennial
celebration of the very first Indianapolis 500. But, that of course,
would be putting the cart in front of the horse. Because the race at
Loudon, NH comes first.


  16.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.16.2011 - 8:13 pm
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http://racingwithrich.com/?p=1471

Above is an excellent article about something Bruton said in his about
face press conference about the Kentucky traffic debacle. When asked why
they didn't just refund the money for people that paid for tix to that
race, but couldn't get in (which is what they should do) he said it was
because "we don't want to". This article does a great job showing how
that is a microcasm of the issues with current leadership in NASCAR.

If Newman doesn't win this race, then wins two more poles without
winning the race, he will tie Geoff Bodine's record for most consecutive
poles that didn't result in a win. Obviously on the racetrack there are
no similarities between Geoff and Ryan. Geoff was a hell of a race car
driver. He won on all three road courses for 3 different owners, won at
Martinsville and Wilkesboro many times for different teams, was great at
Pocono, and very good at Dover. Ryan, after his first two seasons which
were outstanding, has struggled just to stay relevant. But from a
personality standpoint, Ryan reminds me a lot of Geoff. They both think
they are a lot smarter than they really are.

"Jimmie Johnson could easily run a ten yard route, not get thrown the
football, and then sit down on the bench for twenty minutes while the
other offense had their possession. I'm pretty sure Golden Tate couldn't
run the Coca-Cola 600 if he tried."

Ha! You are right. Quoted for the truth. Golden Tate has no right to
feel superior to JJ on ANY level.


  17.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.16.2011 - 8:14 pm
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"I don't know if that's more amazing or pathetic."

Pathetic.


  18.   Anonymous85 posted:
  07.16.2011 - 9:00 pm
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Well I have an opinion about what should be done with Bruton Smith,
Brian France, Mike Helton and the rest of the (so called) leaders of
NASCAR.

Coup d'Ă©tat


  19.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.16.2011 - 9:06 pm
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I think Bruton's response to the Kentucky debacle is also one of the #1
reasons why fans have stopped coming to the racetracks and found
something else to do with their Sundays. He says, "We don't want to" but
if I were a fan trying to get in and couldn't, and heard that from the
track president, I'd say, "Fine, I'll just go find somewhere else to
spend my money." Bruton should be ashamed of himself for not only
allowing such a debacle to happen, but for possibly giving fans even
more motivation to just stay home.

This Golden Tate fellow sounds awfully arrogant. I don't know about him
because football bores me to death, but that's indeed ignorant and it
shows he doesn't know much about automobile racing.


  20.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.16.2011 - 9:07 pm
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Correction: The chairman of the company that owns the tracks, not the
track president.


  21.   Red posted:
  07.16.2011 - 9:12 pm
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And I get the impression Ryan's job is completely safe at SHR, no matter
how mediocre he continues to run. When was the last time the #39 was a
legitimate threat to win a race? I can't even remember (plate races
don't count). He made the 2009 chase on consistency, not speed, and has
persisted in being a 10th-15th place driver throughout his tenure at SHR.

I'd love to see someone like Martin Truex get a shot in the #39, instead
of watching a good ride wasted by a one-trick pony like Newman.


  22.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.16.2011 - 9:17 pm
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Sorry about the double post, I initially didn't see my first post, so I
re-typed it. I guess the moderators want to check out any link being
posted and that is actually a really good idea. This is a very well run
site.


  23.   AlmirolaFan88 posted:
  07.16.2011 - 9:55 pm
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"I'd love to see someone like Martin Truex get a shot in the #39,
instead of watching a good ride wasted by a one-trick pony like Newman."

I wouldn't replace one overrated driver with another.


  24.   00andJoe posted:
  07.16.2011 - 10:48 pm
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I think Humpy should start making plans to quietly ease Bruton out...


  25.   Anonymous posted:
  07.17.2011 - 11:39 am
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Golden Tate's comments don't shock me. The NFL has plenty of players
that have big mouths or love to use twitter. A lot of those times those
players say stuff that they don't have a clue about or have little
information on when they made those comments.

The other reason Golden Tate made those comments is some Football
Players feel they are extremely macho or better than anyone else. High
School Football Players already that attitude that I described based on
what I had to deal with one high football player that was in one of my
classes when I was high school senior. Golden Tate in his own mind
thinks how could someone outside of the sport I play in get the athlete
of the year award and isn't a ball sports.


  26.   00andJoe posted:
  07.17.2011 - 1:49 pm
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Wouldn't surprise me if the comments were also "Hey, you football fans
don't want to go watch this other sport while we sit around on our
backsides paying our lawyers..."


  27.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.17.2011 - 1:57 pm
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The New Mature Kyle huh?


  28.   18fan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 2:09 pm
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I hate Goodyear's stupid super hard tires that allow everybody to just
take two tires on every stop and nobody can take four tires and pass
anybody. The only guy I have seen that can pass people in traffic is
Jeff Gordon, who probably has a better car than the two SHR cars. I will
say that Kyle's interview was fine until they asked about the contact
with the 88, although there are several drivers who would've reacted
very similarly to that question.

It seems, at least to me, that the majority of the passes Harvick makes
every race are on pit road. He runs 15th-20th, they make a pit stop, and
he comes out 7th. He never passes very many cars on the racetrack to get
to the front.


  29.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.17.2011 - 3:17 pm
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As I type this now, Jeff Gordon is restarting 16th. 20 laps ago he was a
lap down in 35th. He just never quits and only gets motivated by
adversity. That is why I have him behind only JJ as the championship
favorite.


  30.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.17.2011 - 3:39 pm
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Of course JJ's team is gonna have to quit killing him in the pits.


  31.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.17.2011 - 3:46 pm
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I guess JJ is saving up all his luck for the cha$e. He just spun out.


  32.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.17.2011 - 4:21 pm
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Stat jinx.


  33.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.17.2011 - 4:22 pm
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Well, Newman broke his streak of not winning from the pole position.
Still, it has to be embarrassing for him to have had a streak like that.


  34.   18fan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 4:36 pm
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Another gift top 5 for Logano. Tough breaks for Kurt Busch and Jeff
Gordon, both lost surefire top 5s due to running out of gas. Good job by
Newman, he had the best car most of the day, he deserved to win.


  35.   beau posted:
  07.17.2011 - 4:38 pm
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labonte got 7th wow.


  36.   Schroeder51 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 4:54 pm
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TNT said Gordon got a flat tire, he did not run out of gas.

Damn, there were about 5 cars crawling across the finish line, though.

1st 1-2 finish for Stewart-Haas Racing and (according to TNT, though
they are possibly wrong) first time since the 1989 Daytona 500 that two
teammates started on the front row and ended up finishing in the top 2.

This is only Bobby Labonte's 2nd top 10 of the season. I thought he'd be
doing a lot better in the 47.

Kyle Busch drops from 1st to 5th in points after blowing a tire early
and crashing.


  37.   BLabonte47 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 4:59 pm
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Bobby top 10!


  38.   00andJoe posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:08 pm
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I see David Ragan has moved up to 13th in points. As Spock would say,
"fascinating"...


  39.   00andJoe posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:16 pm
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#32 sponsor: L.S. Starrett Company
#46 sponsor: Red Line Oil


  40.   18fan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:17 pm
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Ryan Newman hadn't led over 100 laps in a race since Dover in Spring of
2007 before today, another race in which he started from the pole.


  41.   Rusty posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:20 pm
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Ryan Newman becomes the first driver of 2011 to win the pole and race in
the same weekend but is the 2nd race in a row where the winner starts
first after Kyle Busch won from 1st after qualyifing was rained out in
Kentucky last week.

Newman is also the 13th different driver to win this season (Bayne,
Gordon, Edwards, Kyle Busch, Harvick, Kenseth, Johnson, Smith,
Keselowski, Hamlin, Kurt Busch, Ragan, Newman). Last year we saw 13
different winners total in the whole 36 race season (McMurray, Johnson,
Kurt Busch, Hamlin, Newman, Harvick, Kyle Busch, Reutimann, Biffle,
Montoya, Stewart, Bowyer, Edwards). A lot of parity this season.

Newman's victory now leaves Dale Earnhardt, Jr. as the only driver in
the top 10 in points without a win.


  42.   BON GORDON posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:20 pm
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Gordon just could not catch a break today. Works his butt off for a
lousy 11th place finish. His luck is the very reason he doesnt have more
wins and championships. Yea you make your own luck but why couldnt have
it happened to say Jimmie Johnson. Just a very frustrating day for
Gordon and his fans. I felt he had the best car and i believe the reason
he wasnt as fast at the end was because of the tire going down very
slowly. I dunno, good run gone bad for Gordon. Off to indy in two weeks
where im sure they will struggle.


  43.   18fan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:28 pm
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Jeff Gordon was clearly the best driver in this race, there is no doubt
about that. However, at the end Gordon's car seemed to be even with
Newman, Stewart, Hamlin, and Busch.


  44.   Mike posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:30 pm
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Newman's the first driver this season to win a points race after
qualifying on the pole (Kyle started first last week, but that was
because qualifying was rained out).


  45.   dirtfan9628 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:32 pm
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"The New Mature Kyle huh?"

What, is he not supposed to be frustrated after blowing a tire 50 laps
in? He didn't blame it on anyone else, in fact he made a conscious
effort to say it WASN'T anyone else's fault. Isn't that different than
the way he used to act in past years? He didn't refuse to speak with
anyone, he gave an interview, talked about what happened, didn't blame
anyone else. Aren't drivers allowed to show some emotion? I guess you'd
rather they all be robots then? Maybe he should get out of his car and
flash a big smile, even though he just lost the points lead, ruined the
momentum he gained last week, and wrecked a car not even a third of the
way into the race, I guess that would be better.

You're a broken record with little to say, DaleSrFanForever. And now
you're really grasping at straws.


  46.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:33 pm
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"I see David Ragan has moved up to 13th in points. As Spock would say,
"fascinating"..."

Classic "hot seat" run. I hope Roush doesn't fall for it. I like David
personally, but we need new blood in Cup. Logano is doing the same thing.


  47.   Ryan Newman posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:33 pm
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"Ryan Newman is currently closing in on the record for most consecutive
poles without a winning from the pole. The most is Geoff Bodine, 3
ahead. I find that appropriate. In some ways, personality wise, I see
Ryan as a much less talented Geoff Bodine. They both think they are a
lot smarter than they really are."

Hahahahahahaha, what we're you saying there? Guess what, eat it.

Sincerely,

Ryan Newman


  48.   potatosalad48 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:36 pm
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Jimmie Johnson looks to be back to his old form, coming back from a spin
AND a missed lugnut and finishing 5th.


  49.   18fan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:38 pm
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Both Hamlin and Johnson rebounded from spins to score top 5 finishes.
Marcos Ambrose also gets a top 10 and he actually drove right around the
outside of Logano on a restart.

McMurray was in the back, the front, the back again, the front again,
and finally ran out of gas because he didn't know he had to save fuel
due to radio issues.


  50.   AlmirolaFan88 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:42 pm
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Jamie McMurrary falls to 29th in points, ouch. Not sure when the
bleeding is going to stop for that team.


  51.   18fan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 5:43 pm
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The Hendrick cars of Gordon and Johnson as well as the Stewart-Haas cars
of Newman and Stewart seemed to roll through the center of the corners
faster than any other cars. This was the 8th win for Stewart-Haas,
Newman's second for SHR, and their first 1-2 finish comes on the same
weekend as their first 1-2 start. It was the third time in SHR's 8 wins
that the winner started first, but this was their first win from a pole
they qualified on, as Stewart won twice in 2009 when qualifying was
rained out and he was leading the points.


  52.   Anonymous85 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 6:10 pm
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To anyone that is challenging Jimmie Johnson for the Championship there
is a way to beat him just drive up to his rear bumper and spin his Ass
out it is the only way to defeat him. do as I say if you want to defeat
Jimmie Johnson and win the title then you will do as I say and DON'T
IGNORE ME


  53.   Ryan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 6:44 pm
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"The New Mature Kyle huh?"

Couldn't have said it better myself. Guy has a string of good runs, and
then Mr. Adversity gets the best of him again. He just over drives the
car when he had 240 laps to get back up front. Richard Petty told Dale
Earnhardt in the early part of his career, "You can't win the race in
the first lap, but you sure can lose it."

And then being a jerk and knowing good and well he was racing too hard
too early and made contact with the 88 was the reason why he had tire
trouble.


  54.   nascarfreak99 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 6:44 pm
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Bobby Labonte FINALLY has a good run after all the bad luck he's had the
past 5 races.


  55.   Ryan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 6:47 pm
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"Classic "hot seat" run. I hope Roush doesn't fall for it. I like David
personally, but we need new blood in Cup. Logano is doing the same thing."

You guys are giving up on them way too early.


  56.   00andJoe posted:
  07.17.2011 - 6:55 pm
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#42 sponsor: Target/Tomtom


  57.   00andJoe posted:
  07.17.2011 - 6:57 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DSFF - I was referring more in general response to the people who went
"waa he'll be the least deserving Chaser ever" when there's a possiblity
he'll be in the top-12 even without the win, but true...

AlmirolaFan88 - It's sadly looking more and more like 2010 was the
abberation for Jamie Mac, and not the #26 years, isn't it?


  58.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.17.2011 - 7:13 pm
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"Classic "hot seat" run. I hope Roush doesn't fall for it. I like David
personally, but we need new blood in Cup."

I agree. Remember a few years ago in 2008, when Edwards was the man and
Kenseth and Biffle were also up front a lot. Even Jamie McMurray (who
never ran that great with Roush) started clicking off top 5's towards
the end of the season. So far that year has been David's best (this year
could possibly rank alongside that but we'll see how he runs for the
rest of the year first), and it was still sub-par. Roush has been flat
out on it this year as well when it comes to setups, and you see Ragan
somewhat relevant again.


  59.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.17.2011 - 7:20 pm
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Am I the only one that liked what I saw today? I thought I saw alot of
passing. Not one car completely dominated the day, Newman, Stewart,
Gordon and Kurt busch took turns leading portions of the race.

Maybe this tire idea works on certain tracks? Or during the day? Cuz it
didn't work in Kentucky. Idk just my thoughts.

Jimmie Johnson proves again why he is the best driver in NASCAR. No
ESPN, it's not Kyle busch.

Nice to see Newman run up front, him and his team needed it. Congrats.


  60.   Anonymous posted:
  07.17.2011 - 7:21 pm
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While spinning Jimmie Johnson out is one way to win the championship,
the 48 team has issues, the is another way to beat him. Jimmie Johnson
doesn't have a championship caliber pit crew. His pit crew is why he
only has 1 win this year like today's race proved. Jimmie was lucky his
crew crew didn't their mistake under green flag conditions.


  61.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.17.2011 - 7:37 pm
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"Hahahahahahaha, what we're you saying there? Guess what, eat it."

I said stat jinx!

" was referring more in general response to the people who went "waa
he'll be the least deserving Chaser ever" when there's a possiblity
he'll be in the top-12 even without the win, but true..."

That's true, you are right.

"Jimmie Johnson proves again why he is the best driver in NASCAR. No
ESPN, it's not Kyle busch."

You are right. Despite the most underwhelming year so far in the history
of the 48 team, there he is just 7 points out of the lead. Every week
his pit crew screws him, and every week he bails them out. That is the
thing I respect so much about him and Gordon. When adversity strikes
them, they turn it up a notch instead of throwing in the towel. That is
why I say they are the top two to beat for the championship.

Yes, the 48 as a team is looking as bad as they have ever looked, but I
don't see any other team to topple them unless they have a lot of bad
luck in the cha$e. The 99 has lost the dominating edge they had early,
the 29 seems to be losing speed every week, and the 18 has Kyle Busch
behind the wheel. Remember what I said about JJ and Gordon and
adversity? The opposite is true for KyBu.


  62.   StevenWallaceCan'tDrive posted:
  07.17.2011 - 8:00 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"The New Mature Kyle huh?"

I assume this wasn't sarcastic, because yes, he handled that interview
well. The pit reported tried to play up some stupid Junior vs. Busch
angle, and he shot it down, and said everybody was hitting everybody out
there.

"Jimmie Johnson proves again why he is the best driver in NASCAR. No
ESPN, it's not Kyle busch."

He showed why he's the best and why he's still the luckiest. Not
everyone would have everything fall into place to get all those spots
back back after all the miscues, then have the opportunity to take
advantage of them in the end the way Johnson did, and so often does.
Makes them tough to beat, but at some point that luck will run out and
his talent might not be enough to make up for it. And his pit crew is
about one more mistake away from being gutted, and Knaus will come
running for Gordon's again.


  63.   Eric posted:
  07.17.2011 - 8:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DaleSrFanForever,

You forgot something about Carl Edwards. Although it very likely Carl is
going to resign with Roush, he hasn't resigned with Roush yet. That
means the team is distracted right now because Carl hasn't signed a new
contract yet. That is why Carl lost his dominating edge.

If Carl doesn't sign a contract before the chase or sign a contract with
anothor team, the team is very unlikely to rediscover their dominating
edge.


  64.   StewartSmokesEm posted:
  07.17.2011 - 8:18 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Remember what I said about JJ and Gordon and adversity? The opposite is
true for KyBu."

Well it would have helped him in this race if Jimmie Johnson could drive
straight, and Earnhardt Jr. had some kind of awareness of the cars
around him, and if he wasn't stuck pitting behind some nobody that boxes
him in trapping him back with idiots like Dale Earnhardt Jr that bounce
off him and cause him to cut a tire.

Sure, in the Chase he has his problems, but in the race the 18 must have
had some kind of bullseye for bad luck and drivers who can't keep their
nose straight.


  65.   Brad posted:
  07.17.2011 - 8:25 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Another shitty race... Whats new? Better than Kentucky but still sucked.
New Hampshire used to have good racing. What happened?


  66.   Jon posted:
  07.17.2011 - 8:33 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

i never really thought NH produced great races, but occasionally good
finishes. a lot of tracks are like that but a lot of flat, wide tracks
are like that (indy, pocono, phoenix, to an extent richmond). i don't
hate any of them outside of maybe indy, but NH sometimes had a good race
or two to the finish.


  67.   Anonymous posted:
  07.17.2011 - 8:34 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I think it's hilarious that all the people that would be in here piling
on Kyle Busch for blowing a tire, got shut up after their man crush
Keselowski had the same problem.

By the way, I see some people here talking about David Ragan possibly
being the worst Chaser in history. Well, if Keselowski squeaks in
running 19th or 20th in points, I think we can pretty much put that
argument to rest. Ragan is nearly 12th in points, which was the old
cut-off. Hmmm, who's REALLY in danger of being the worst Chase driver in
history? We have 7 races to figure it out. Keselowski better watch out
for Marcos Ambrose, he could win Watkins Glen and finish ahead of him in
points. He has more top 5's and more top 10's so far, so that's not
exactly a crazy thought.

Personally I think the fact that Keselowski has to worry about doing
better than David Ragan and Marcos Ambrose, or even Paul Menard, is
pathetic. It's going to take a few more than 4 top 10s in 19 races to be
worthy of racing against Johnson, Gordon, Edwards, Busch, Stewart, and
Harvick for the championship. If I was a Keselowski fan, I might start
thinking it would be better for him not to make the Chase, because if he
does get in there he'll probably crap the bed worse than anyone else
ever has. He could make Brian Vicker's 2009 chase look like Jimmie
freakin' Johnson.


  68.   Anonymous posted:
  07.17.2011 - 8:46 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Ryan Newman is now in the top 50 in all time Cup wins.

But he's one of those guys where every win from now on could be his
last. Or he could go 2 or 3 years without a win, then get one more, and
then be done. I don't think he has a multi-win season in him anymore.
He'll never be a champion, but I think he could look back on 15 wins, a
Daytona 500 win, and consider himself a pretty good NASCAR driver.


  69.   Ryan posted:
  07.17.2011 - 9:05 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"He showed why he's the best and why he's still the luckiest. Not
everyone would have everything fall into place to get all those spots
back back after all the miscues, then have the opportunity to take
advantage of them in the end the way Johnson did, and so often does.
Makes them tough to beat, but at some point that luck will run out and
his talent might not be enough to make up for it. And his pit crew is
about one more mistake away from being gutted, and Knaus will come
running for Gordon's again."

Lets not forget he had a great car today to make a lot of the spots up.
He not only came from the back once, but twice... He probably passed
more cars than anyone else today.


  70.   00andJoe posted:
  07.17.2011 - 9:13 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

#68 - Don't forget that Bill Elliott went -seven- years between wins.
But I do see your point.


  71.   dUDE gUY posted:
  07.17.2011 - 9:22 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

This was a pretty good race. Plenty of good racing from start to finish,
with lots of different strategies throughout the whole race. The ebb and
flow of this race was very interesting to me, with lots of comers and
goers and comers and goers, as pit strategy heavily shuffled the field
after pretty much every round of pit stops.


Ryan Newman gets just his fourth win from a pole, despite earning 47
poles and 15 victories thus far in his career. This was also the first
race in which Newman led over 100 laps since the spring Dover race in
2007, where he finished second to Truex. A very dominate night for Ryan,
who hasn't dominated in quite a long time.


Tony Stewart starts and finishes in the 2nd place, earning Stewart-Haas
Racing a 1-2 start and a 1-2 finish in the same race. Both SHR cars were
the class of the field, and earned the finish they deserved.
Unfortunately for Stewart, this is just Stewart's second top five finish
of the year, both 2nd place finishes. He is now tied for Denny Hamlin
for 10th in points.


Bobby Labonte gets a top ten for the first time since this years Daytona
500. It's been a tough year for the 47 bunch, with a few good runs for
that team being spoiled by things out of their control. It's good to see
them have a solid run that resulted in a good finish.


Jimmie Johnson really does have a horseshoe jammed up his butt. A poor
starting spot, missing lug not, and a spin couldn't keep Johnson from
stealing a top 5 finish tonight.


Jeff Burton had a great run going for him, running in the top ten for
the first 3/4 of the race. Then, with about 70 to go, the 31 team pit
for fuel and right sides, came out about 17th, and never really
recovered. He has had several good runs go sour this year, and has yet
to finish in the top ten in 2011.


In my opinion, a great race at Loudon. Love watching the races at this 1
mile flat track.


  72.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 9:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Well, congrats to Newman and Stewart on scoring Stewart-Haas' first 1-2
finish, as well as starting 1-2, the first time that the same two
teammates have both started and finished 1-2 in the same race since the
1989 Daytona 500, when Ken Schrader and Darrell Waltrip pulled it off
for Hendrick Motorsports. however, there is a difference between the
two. In that race, while Schrader and Waltrip both started and finishd
1-2, it was not in the same order in both the start and finish of that
race. Schrader won the pole for that race wuth Waltrip qualified second,
but at race's end, due to fuel mileage, Waltrip switched the positions,
winning and Schrader finishing second. In this race, Newman and Stewart
finished 1-2 in the same order in which they qualified.

Also, until the last lap, it looked like the statistical scenario that I
brought up in post #15 could very well happen, with Jeff Gordon possibly
tying Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s modern-era top 5 record in this race without
winning, and possibly breaking that record, as well as the one he shares
with Waltrip for wins in the modern-era (84), as well as become the
first-ever 5-time winner on the IMS oval, all ocming in the same race,
but a flat tire on the final lap ruined that possible statistical
scenario. but a win in the Brickyard 400 would tie Earnhardt's modern
top 5 record, as well as set those two other marks in the same event.
(It would be ironic if that happened, considering that Gordon and
Earnhardt, Sr., in that order, were the Brickyard 400's first two
winners.) Also, is anyone surprised that Robby Gordon's #7 car ran the
distance, considering that he wasn't in the car. Usually when he's not
in the car, it's a start-and-park, but considering that Robby needs to
get that car locked into the Brickyard 400, it may not be such a big
surprise after all, with the #71 car right on the #7's heels in terms of
owner points.

Also, for what it's worth, Tony Stewart moved back ahead of Jimmie
Johnson for 12th on the all-time NASCAR lap leaders list. both drivers
led, but Stewart led 29 more laps, 48 total, giving him a total of
11,517, while Johnson's 19 laps led give him a total of 11,487. both
drivers were tied in that category heading into the race. also, Kurt
Busch, by starting the race, as well as due to the fact that Robby
Gordon did not start the race, moved into the top 50 on the all-time
starts list with 383. Robby Gordon has 382. If he starts every race this
year, Busch will end the season with exactly 400 career starts. Next up
for Busch is John Andretti, who's 49th with 393, then Frank Warren with
396. Andretti has not attempted a NASCAR race this year, and for all we
know, may never run another NASCAR race again, unless that rumor about
6-8 weeks ago about Michael Andretti, John's cousin, starting his own
NASCAR team proves true. And even if he does, it would be no guarantee
that John would be the driver, though that would, in my mind, be, at
this time, the most logical choice.


  73.   Eric posted:
  07.17.2011 - 9:36 pm
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If anyone looks at how Ryan wins, it is usually by fuel mileage or the
crew chief finding away to give Ryan track position like what happened
at Phoenix for the spring race last year.

Ryan is young enough to win more races because he is going to 34 in
December.

I think it possible that Ryan still could win multiple times in a season
because of fuel mileage including this season because fuel mileage could
be played out in a lot of races. This year has plenty of fuel mileage
races already this year or having crew chiefs that told them to stay out.


  74.   DaleJrFan20 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 9:47 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Once again New Hampshire has shown for the past few years why its still
on the schedule. I don't know why, but I always feel like this is one of
the few tracks that I almost always have expected to have crap racing,
but for quite some time, its proven me wrong with each race. Hats off to
Newman, always nice to see him get a W from time to time.


  75.   Spen posted:
  07.17.2011 - 9:50 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Anonymous : Remember though, that Newman's only 33. As long as his buddy
Tony is willing to put him in a competitive car, he'll probably end up
getting another three or so wins just by being there. Most likely, fuel
milage races.


  76.   Breaker posted:
  07.17.2011 - 10:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I don't think it was Jeff Gordon's day today. After having a battery
die, and running most of the race without cooling in 90 degree plus
weather causing major leg cramps, was still running 4th on the white
flag before apparently cutting a right front AND running out of gas as
well.

He has the exact opposite of the golden horseshoe that belongs to ...
Jimmie Johnson, who earlier in the race had a pit miscue and a spin,
causing the announcers to say that they were beating themselves, comes
back to finish 5th.

A lot of odd happenings today: Ryan Newman wins, Bobby Labonte gets a
top 10, two Front Row cars get a top 25, and poor Joe Nemechek, for the
second consecutive race, and fifth time in 19 races, has brake failure
to end his day early.


  77.   DaleJrFan20 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 10:52 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"A lot of odd happenings today: Ryan Newman wins, Bobby Labonte gets a
top 10, two Front Row cars get a top 25, and poor Joe Nemechek, for the
second consecutive race, and fifth time in 19 races, has brake failure
to end his day early."

"Brake failure", right ;)


  78.   potatosalad48 posted:
  07.17.2011 - 11:23 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Johnson may indeed have had a horseshoe, but don't attribute all the
positions he gained to luck. He DROVE from 27th to 5th after the last
restart.


  79.   Spen posted:
  07.17.2011 - 11:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

By the way, I doubt Jeff Green got a point for this race, unless he's
switched series for the remainder of the year.


  80.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.18.2011 - 12:13 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

It's not jimmie running bad, it's his pathetic excuse for a pit crew.
Horseshoe? Get real, he tore through the field after his crew screwed
him over yet again.
Clint bowyer, Jeff Burton and David reutiman all had fast top 10 cars
but poor pit strategy left them in the same spot as jimmie and they
couldn't take advantage like jimmie did.

I don't like the fact that he has won 5 championships in a row as much
as the next guy, but today I'm giving him credit for what it's worth.


  81.   Red posted:
  07.18.2011 - 12:57 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

This race was a lot more interesting than most Loudon events. I was
entertained throughout, and I'm happy NASCAR let the race run green the
last 57 laps.

Jimmie Johnson is NOT lucky, he's just so good at overcoming adversity
that he seems lucky. How many others drivers would have passed 20 cars
on the final run like JJ did?

Jimmie and Chad are the NASCAR equivalent of Tom Brady and Bill
Belichick. Sometimes they just annihilate their opponents, but even when
they're having an off day, they still find a way to pull it out in the end.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kasey Kahne wins the championship next year.
Seriously. He's driving for a lame duck, mid-pack team, and still
manages to outrun half the big teams every week. He's been even faster
than his finishes show, as he's 11th in Driver rating this year. That #5
car will be stout next year.

Speaking of the #5 car, I think Mark is done. He's been pretty slow
almost every week, and hasn't shown any signs of improvement. It almost
seems like 2009 was his last hurrah, his last real shot at a title, and
even Mark knows it'll never happen now. Mark, please do everyone a favor
a retire with dignity; don't go out like DW and Dale Jarrett. And for
the love of God, don't become Brett Favre.


  82.   Anonymous85 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 1:05 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

DSFF: Gordon had his chance to stop JJ from winning the Title back in
2007 and HE BLEW IT remember


  83.   Anonymous85 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 1:08 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

at post 80: Amen on Mark Martin he should retire before he becomes the
Brett Farve of NASCAR


  84.   Ryan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 1:38 am
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I think it's safe to say that my boy Dale Jr. is on the hot seat. I
believe he is going to need a win to get in the Chase, and I don't think
it's going to happen. Hope I'm wrong, but if I were a bettin' man...


  85.   18fan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 2:59 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

According to Jayski, the last time teammates started and finished 1-2 in
the same order was Fireball Roberts and Paul Goldsmith in 1957 at North
Wilkesboro for Pete DePaolo.


  86.   John Royal posted:
  07.18.2011 - 3:04 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I'm not a special fan of Kurt Busch, but in the other hand, we might
have a shot of Dodge winning the championship...


  87.   Electric Flash Yo posted:
  07.18.2011 - 7:10 am
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Newman got his once-a-year victory LOL.


  88.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 7:20 am
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Red: Hendrick eliminates anyone who threatens Jimmie's title streak.
Notice how every other car at Hendrick gets crapped on come Chase time.
Mark gets crap because he dared to threaten Jimmie's "supremacy." He
even crapped on Tony Stewart (a satellite team) in 2009. In other words,
Hendrick is a jerk and a creep who cares not about the two most talented
drivers (Jeff and Mark) in NASCAR behind Kyle Busch and Tony Stewart,
but rather the money drivers (Jimmie and Dale).


  89.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 7:38 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Anonymous85: No. Hendrick gave Jeff the absolute worst cars possible in
2007 and 2009. At the end of the year (aka the Chase), Jeff got crap
cars that couldn't drive in the top 30. What did Jeff do? Cry? No. He
drove it to the top 10 in one of the greatest drives in history. If you
remember, Jimmie didn't outscore Jeff in the Chase. it was Jimmie's
bonus points for more wins despite obvious inferiority. Jeff really
clinched with 2 races left in the year.


  90.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 7:40 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

From Richmond to Homestead, Jeff's point lead truly grew from 312 points
to 355 points in 2007.


  91.   Electric Flash Yo posted:
  07.18.2011 - 7:41 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Jeff Gordon is extremely talented, but in the end will never escape
Jimmie's shadow. How ironic. And sad. And...... DISGUSTING (vomits).
Ew.... my vomit is all over my Will Smith CD D:


  92.   webmaster posted:
  07.18.2011 - 7:52 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

#79: Green is shown with one point in the unofficial results NASCAR
posted despite also being listed as ineligible for points in Sprint Cup.
We'll see what the official results say later today.


  93.   AJ posted:
  07.18.2011 - 8:24 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

As someone who was at the race, I'll say this: I'm not sure everyone
fully realized how hot it was going to be, but there were a hell of a
lot of people underneath the stands looking like they were about to pass
out. Props to both the EMT's who were running around like crazy below
the grandstands attending to people, and to NHMS who had multiple
misting systems in operation trying to help people stay cool. But over
the past 15 years, that might be the hottest I can ever remember it
being for a summer race in Loudon. Low 90's + no clouds = hot as hell.


  94.   Smiff_99 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 8:32 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

potatosalad78, ease up just a bit there. On the last restart, I believe
Jimmie lined up somewhere around 15th-17th (not quite 27th). Yeah, he
gained a few spots on his own on that last stretch run, but let's not
make him out to be a god or something, k? Half the guys in front of him
either ran out of gas, or were stroking to stretch their mileage.

His team, by making mistakes earlier, put him off-sequence on pit stops,
so in the last 120 laps, Johnson ended up having to pit 1 less time than
most everybody else, hence his 5th place showing.

If anything, Gordon was the one who should get credit for an amazing
drive. He drove his guts out today (and was able to keep his car under
control, unlike Jimmie and many others)


  95.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 8:59 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Red (#81), I've been saying that about Mark and the #5 car for some time
now, and it's about time someone finally agreed with me on that line of
thinking. Yes, I think when Kasey gets in that car next year, not only
will the true potential of that car be realized, but it will also give
the #24 team a boost since Kahne will give them info that Martin just
can't give them right now.

And Eric (#73), while it's true that Newman's fuel mileage held up,
that's not why he won this race. He won this race because he had the
best car. 119 laps led is proof of the putting.

And 18fan (#85), you mentioned that the last time that drivers from the
same team started and finished 1-2 in the same order were Fireball
Roberts and Paul Goldsmith, who were driving for Peter DePaolo.
remember, that some of the early men involved with major NASCAR teams in
it's beginning had ties to the early days of the Indianapolis 500.
DePaolo, for instance was the first man to run that race in under 5
hours, averaging 101.127 MPH in his 1925 Indy win. (DePaolo was also the
nephew of Ralph DePalma, who won the Indianapolis 500 in 1915 in only
it's fifth running and should've have won it at least two other times.)
Another one-time driver that had major ties in NASCAR's early years was
racing legend Mauri Rose. Rose, one of the first drivers who was also an
engineer, was just the third man to win the Indianaplis 500 three times,
sharing his first Indy win in 1941 with Floyd Davis, while winning the
pole for that race with the car he started (he dropped out after 72
laps). Rose also added wins in 1947-'48, as only the second man to win
consecutive Indy races. (Wilbur Shaw was the first.) Another man
important in NASCAR's early history that had ties to early racing in
this country was Cannonball Baker. Baker, NASCAR's first commissioner,
drove in the Indianapolis 500 in 1922, just the tenth running of that
race. so many people that were involved in the early days of NASCAR had
actually been drivers in some of the earliest runnings of the
Indianapolis 500. DePaolo and possibly Baker were also among those that
raced on the high-banked board tracks of the 1920s, which were probably
the inspiration for the high-banked ovals that you see today.


  96.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 9:05 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Also, this was not the first time that Newman and Stewart finish 1-2 at
Loudon. Ironically, in Newman's 2005 win at Loudon, it was Stewart he
passed for the win with two laps to go after a great battle that day,
the first of the 2005 Chase. It was also ironic tat Stewart won the
title that year without winning in the Chase, the only time since the
Chase was adopted that the driver that won the title, did so without a
victory in the last ten races, so winning the championship without
winning in the last ten races, while extremely difficult, has been done
in the Chase format.


  97.   Matthew Tesfaye posted:
  07.18.2011 - 10:24 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Jeff Gordon ran out of fuel in the last lap, he heading towards a 4th
place finish if he didn't ran out of fuel.


  98.   Scott B posted:
  07.18.2011 - 11:06 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

JJ Yeley made his first career start for Front Row Motorsports, moving
over from Dusty Whitney's #46.

Erik Darnell in turn took the #46 seat, his first Cup start since the
end of the 2009 season.

Jeff Green made his first Cup start of 2011 in the #55, a new Front Row
Motorsports entry. The entry has no ownership or points connection to
others that have run also run the #55 in recent years.


  99.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.18.2011 - 11:22 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

For me it's sad to see mark Martin run so poorly.

Nicorosbergfan- if you look at the records jimmie johnson is the 2007
sprint cup champion. Fans like you are cancer to NASCAR with your
ridiculous conspiracy theories. Here's why jimmie has won the cup 5
years in a row. Jimmie is currently the best driver, knaus is the best
crew chief and the chase tracks all play to jimmies strengths. BAM!
Dominance for ya


  100.   Red posted:
  07.18.2011 - 11:29 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"In other words, Hendrick is a jerk and a creep who cares not about the
two most talented drivers (Jeff and Mark) in NASCAR behind Kyle Busch
and Tony Stewart, but rather the money drivers (Jimmie and Dale)."

That is ridiculous, Nico. You really think a 50+ year old Mark Martin is
more talented than Jimmie Johnson? And how is Jimmie a "money driver"
when fans think he's boring and don't want to see him win? A Jeff Gordon
championship would produce more $$$ in memorabilia sales than another JJ
title.

"Hendrick gave Jeff the absolute worst cars possible in 2007 and 2009.
At the end of the year (aka the Chase), Jeff got crap cars that couldn't
drive in the top 30."

Yes Nico, Rick Hendrick would completely sabotage one of his teams just
so the other could win the title. Let me guess, the moon landing was
fake and 9/11 was an inside job, right? Get a grip, buddy.


  101.   00andJoe posted:
  07.18.2011 - 12:18 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

You know, here's an interesting question: why is this coming week a week
off? I can understand wanting a breather, but why not have it after
Richmond, a "week off before the chase" thing then?


  102.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 12:24 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

IglooRacer, Red: I do believe Hendrick sabotages Jeff and Mark for the
glory and extra profit of Jimmie winning umpteen titles and Dale Jr.
sales. it is the same tactic used in IndyCar, Grand-Am, F1, LeMans, and
every other racing series on earth, so why not NASCAR, too. Why wouldn't
I believe it being a NICO ROSBERG fan, from the land of team orders,
which has been in NASCAR for years.
Rigged racing?
Yes.
Read Bill Elliott's autobiography, and Miracle: The Saga of Bobby
Allison and the Alabama Gang.


  103.   Scott B posted:
  07.18.2011 - 12:34 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I think the week off is to allow extra time to build the media hype for
the Brickyard (unofficial reason). The off weeks never seem to fall
where they would actually do the most good for the guys on the teams.

Another note: Top finish by a driver in a Ford this week was Marcos
Ambrose in 9th place.


  104.   Red posted:
  07.18.2011 - 12:51 pm
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NicoFan, it appears that years of watching F1 has corrupted your mind.
There are no blatant team orders in NASCAR, and certainly not owners
sabotaging their own teams. Do some cars get better equipment than
others? Sure. But I'd bet my life that the #24 is not getting "30th
place cars" in the Chase. That's just ludicrous.

And you didn't answer my question: How is Jimmie Johnson a money driver?
He's less popular than Jeff and Mark, so how does the #48 winning create
extra profit?

More to the point, why do you even watch racing if you think it's
rigged? Why not just watch the WWE instead?


  105.   Red posted:
  07.18.2011 - 1:11 pm
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The Jeff Gordon conspiracy theories are particularly fascinating - and
annoying. Back when Jeff was winning 10 times a year, disgruntled fans
thought races were rigged in his favor (soaking tires, wink-winks in the
tech inspection lines, Rick Hendrick paying off NASCAR, etc).

Now that Jeff's not winning nearly as much, fans think his OWN TEAM is
rigging things against him, because JJ is the new golden boy and Rick
never wants to see Jeff win another title.

Let's look at this objectively: From 1995-99, the #24 was dominant
because it had the best driver and the best crew chief. No conspiracy here.

In recent times, the #24 has been beaten repeatedly by the #48 because
Jimmie and Chad have been the best driver/CC in the sport; certainly
better than Jeff and his revolving door of crew chiefs. Simple as that,
no conspiracy.


  106.   Smokefan05 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 1:13 pm
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"ChampCar was the best period. In order of my preference:
1. ChampCar
2. ALMS
3. F1
4. Grand-Am
5. IndyCar
6. NASCAR
7. ARCA"

Here is Nico racing series in order of preference. Kinda tells the tale
don't it?



  107.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 1:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Matthew (#97), if Jeff Gordon would have run out of gas where he slowed
down, he would not have finished 11th, because he slowed down before he
hit the backstretch. He slowed down because he had a flat tire (right
front if what I heard is accurate), but he was under power. You are,
however, correct that if not for that, he would have finished fourth,
and set up the possible stat scenario I mentioned in two other posts.


  108.   AJ posted:
  07.18.2011 - 1:45 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

At 107: It was definitely a right front. After the race he stopped in
turn 4 and the right front was completely down. He didn't even get to
the spoiler check, just hopped out on the access road and let the car
get towed away.


  109.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 2:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

ChampCar was great because, although the same guy won, there was always
the crapshoot of tire strategy. Watch a Youtube of 07 Assen. It was a
great, transfixing race. I don't watch NASCAR. I quit because there was
blatant driver preference on the teams. Team orders? Yes. See teammates
moving to allow the other to get bonus points for leading. SmokeFan05,
you obviously are close-minded and haven't watched anything else, or if
you did, it was with your NASCAR colored propaganda glasses.


  110.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 2:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Consider this: Hendrick has been corrupt for years. Remember his 1996
prison sentence that he got pathetically pardoned of despite being found
guilty. Even then Hendrick was corrupt, favoring one driver over the
others (Jeff over Terry and Kenny/Ricky). He just isn't loyal to Jeff.
Someday he will do the same to Jimmie and Hendrick will be destroyed for
it.


  111.   Rusty posted:
  07.18.2011 - 2:53 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

People who think owners purposely give better or worse equipment to
certain teams are on drugs. Everything Hendrick Motorsports uses are all
the same, it is up to how the teams use it and how the drivers drive it.

Besides, if Hendrick could control who ran the best, why would he choose
anybody but Dale Jr? He'd be rolling in dough from a Jr. championship.


  112.   Scott B posted:
  07.18.2011 - 3:08 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

So, why does Jeff Gordon have a "lifetime" contract with Hendrick... the
only one in the sport?


  113.   Talon64 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 3:11 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Anonymous85: No. Hendrick gave Jeff the absolute worst cars possible in
2007 and 2009."

Jeff had 30 top 10's in 2007, setting a new modern era record. He's not
doing that unless he's got cars just as good as Jimmie's.


  114.   Smokefan05 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 3:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"ChampCar was great because, although the same guy won, there was always
the crapshoot of tire strategy. Watch a Youtube of 07 Assen. It was a
great, transfixing race. I don't watch NASCAR. I quit because there was
blatant driver preference on the teams. Team orders? Yes. See teammates
moving to allow the other to get bonus points for leading. SmokeFan05,
you obviously are close-minded and haven't watched anything else, or if
you did, it was with your NASCAR colored propaganda glasses."

You don't watch NASCAR, yet you comment on race pages? Oh ok i see how
this works. I have NASCAR colored proganda glasses? Bull. You don't even
know me boyo, you have no idea of what your saying. I'm closed minded?
Your stance on NASCAR is closed minded dude. I haven't watched anyhting
else? Oh really let me rain on your parade alittle bit dude, i used to
watch F1 (1996-2006), i used to watch Indycar (1992-2006) and watch WRC,
V8 Supercars, BTCC, WTCC, ALMS, MotoGP, NHRA, and anything else that go
fast with 2 or 4 wheels including NASCAR. Yes i defend NASCAR, but that
doesn't stop me from throwing them under the bus when i see that they
deserve it. (and i have done so on here)

The only reason i posted what i posted is because you are saying NASCAR
is "rigged" and "teams use team orders." Yet in reality F1 does what you
say NASCAR does. Bob Varshea even said as much when he was on WinnTunnel
a month or 2 back.

The only person on here with rose colored glasses is you. You hate
NASCAR so much you can't see straight.


  115.   Talon64 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 4:14 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Ryan Newman wins his 15th career Sprint Cup Series race, tying him with
Ernie Irvan for 49th all time. It's just the 4th time in 47 attempts
that he's won from pole.

With 6 top 5's in 19 races, Newman is on pace for his first season with
10+ top 5's since 2004 when he had 11; he had 10+ top 5's in each of his
first 3 seasons in Cup but none in the previous 6.

Newman's 3rd win at Loudon ties him with Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon and
Kurt Busch for 2nd all time, and his 5th pole extends his record for the
most at the track. It's his 4th straight top 10 at Loudon.

Tony Stewart gets just his 2nd top 5 of the season, but both of them are
runner-up finishes. Tony and Dale Earnhardt Jr. are tied for the most
runner-up finishes this season without a win at 2 each, and Tony leads
all non-winners in laps led with 330 (6th most overall).

It's Tony's 5th runner-up finish and 13th top 5 (but just his 15th top
10) in 25 Loudon starts. It's his 3rd straight top 5 and 2nd straight
runner-up finish in this race.

Denny Hamlin gets his first top 10 in 4 races but his 4th podium finish
of the season, and 3rd podium finish in the last 4 races at Loudon. His
7.2 avg fin at Loudon (1 win, 5 top 5's, 8 top 10's) is his 3rd best at
any track, behind only Martinsville and Darlington.

Joey Logano has 2 top 5's and 3 top 10's in the last 4 races, scoring
the most points of anyone in that stretch (5th most in last 8 races,
starting with his 3rd at Charlotte). It's Logano's 2nd top 5 in 6 Loudon
starts, making Loudon just the 3rd track where Joey has multiple top 5's
(2 at Charlotte and Talladega each).

Jimmie Johnson has back-to-back top 5's for just the 2nd time this
season. But it's his 8th top 10 in the last 9 races at Loudon which
includes 1 win and 5 top 5's (7.3 average finish).

After going 6 straight races without a top 10, Kasey Kahne has 2 in the
last 3 races. It's just his 2nd top 10 in the last 10 races at Loudon
after having 4 in his first 5 starts there.

Bobby Labonte gets his first top 10 since finishing 4th in the Daytona
500; Bobby only had 1 top 15 finish in the 17 races between his top
10's. It's just his 2nd top 10 in his last 12 Loudon starts, and 11th in
33 career starts there.

Martin Truex Jr. ties Charlie Glotzbach for 113th all time by picking up
his 50th career top 10 (208 starts). It's his 3rd top 10 in 6 races with
Chad Johnston as his CC and 5th top 10 in 11 career starts at Loudon.

After only having 5 top 10's all of last season, Marcos Ambrose picks up
his 6th of 2011. Ambrose has a streak of 4 straight top 20's going, his
longest of the season. It's his first top 10 in 5 Loudon starts (19.0
avg fin).

Kurt Busch gets his 6th top 10 in the last 8 races, in which he's scored
more points than anybody. It's his 6th top 10 in the last 7 races at
Loudon (11 in 21 starts, along with 3 wins and 7 top 5's).

Jeff Gordon just missed out on a top 10 finish but extends his streak of
consecutive top 15 finishes at Loudon to 12 (5 top 5's, 6 top 10's).

AJ Allmendinger gets his 4th finish of 13th or better in the last 5
races overall, but it's been announced today that Mike Shiplett is out
as AJ's CC and has been replaced by Greg Biffle's former CC Greg Irwin.
In 121 races with drivers AJ Allmendinger (73 races), Patrick Carpentier
(24), Reed Sorenson (22) Terry Labonte (1) and Mike Wallace (1), he has
3 top 5's, 15 top 10's, 2 poles and an average finish of 21.9.

Carl Edwards' 13th place finish is enough for him to retake the points
lead; despite only having 2 top 10's in 14 Loudon starts (both top 5's),
he has a 14.4 avg fin with only 1 finish outside of the top 20.

David Ragan gets his best career finish at Loudon in 9 starts, just his
2nd top 15 and 4th top 20 finish there (25.4 avg fin).

In JJ Yeley's first finish of the season, he ended up 23rd and the
highest finishing FRM car. It's his best finish since finishing 19th in
the Coke Zero 400 at Daytona last season.


  116.   Cooper posted:
  07.18.2011 - 4:33 pm
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I've commented before on this issue, but obviously people ignore
everything I say, but Hendrick has TWO shops. One that holds the
#48/#88, and another that holds the #5/#24. The Hendrick "North" shop
that holds the #48 has always been one step ahead of the Hendrick
"South" shop. The "North" shop maintains more skilled people, therefore
they usually put out better equipment. Rick Hendrick has nothing to do
with it. The reason he moved the #88 into the "North" shop this year was
because that team was struggling real bad. Unfortunately Jeff was the
one that got relegated.

Currently I have this as my Top 5:
1. Hendrick North (#48/#88)
2. Roush 1A (#17/#99)
3. Joe Gibbs (#11/#18/#20)
4. Richard Childress (#29/#31/#33)
5. Hendrick South (#5/#24)

My complete team rankings are located in the Coca Coca 600 race page.


  117.   Anonymous85 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 5:17 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Talon64 I didn't say that Gordon got the worst cars in 2007 & 2009
NicoRosbergFan was the one who made that statement


  118.   Talon64 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 5:43 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Bobby Labonte wins the Backed-Into-It award for the race; despite a 69.4
driver rating Labonte finished 7th, which was the highest he'd ran all day.

I should also have an award for the driver who got a crappy finish
despite having a good race (again, reflected by driver rating). So the
winner of the Got-Screwed award is Jeff Burton who had a 100.0 driver
rating but settled for a 16th place finish.


  119.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.18.2011 - 5:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Jeff had an outstanding 2007 and his cha$e that year was excellent. If
I'm not mistaken, I think that was the 2nd best cha$e ever. But JJ's was
historic. It is kinda like the way Mark Martin had his best season, and
one of the best seasons in the 90's in 1998. But Jeff just ripped 'em to
shreds that year.

I honestly think Rick doesn't care which of his drivers wins. If he were
going to favor any driver, it would be June because of their father- son
relationship.


  120.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.18.2011 - 5:59 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

But cooper kasey kahne will be arriving there next year to the south
shop. Someone said ( can't remember and too lazy to check) that he will
give a boost to the 5 team and I completely agree. Mark Martin is too
old now, Jeff Gordon is getting old.

it's a long shot but I would like to see Landon cassill drive the 24
when Jeff retires, he does so well for the Phoenix racing team. He still
has ties to hendrick right?

To me jimmie hit his true prime the season he won his first title. How
many mistakes has he made since 2006? Far less then any other driver can
say, and when he does he usually drives his way through the field like
he did in new hampshire.


  121.   00andJoe posted:
  07.18.2011 - 6:16 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

NicoRosbergFan:

"I don't watch NASCAR."

Then, to be quite blunt, stop commenting on it.


  122.   Anonymous85 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 6:27 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I wonder why the webmaster allows people like NicoRosebergFan to comment
on this comment board


  123.   Red posted:
  07.18.2011 - 7:08 pm
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"Then, to be quite blunt, stop commenting on it."

Seriously. NicoRosbergFan reminds me of all the idiots who comment on
ESPN's NASCAR articles; they don't even watch NASCAR yet they take the
time to make disparaging comments about it. I don't get it.


  124.   dUDE gUY posted:
  07.18.2011 - 7:37 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Welp, I believe I need to clarify my comment on Jimmie and his
colon-dwelling horseshoe. I was actually attempting to poke fun of how
it seems like Jimmie's team has things fall their way after adversity
decides to strike, but my incredible talent for making casual jokes
sound serious was obviously at work.


Now, about that horseshoe - persoanlly, I believe that Jimmie, Chad and
the rest of the 48 team makes it's own good luck. They seem to be more
prepared than anyone else out there for adversity. They keep their heads
level and use that preparation to make the best of a bad situation.
Jimmie's first Brickyard win in '06 is a good example. He got spun out
early, damaged his right front fender amongst other things, but the team
used the long laps under caution to their advantage and repaired the
car. He then worked his way back to the front and crossed the checkers
first with a big piece of orange tape covering the damaged fender. And
while plenty of other teams are good at overcoming adversity, I haven't
personally witnessed a group who does it better and more often than the
48 team. If Jimmie and his team do indeed have horseshoes rammed up
their collective butts, it's only because they earned it.


  125.   JimmieJohnsonsNeatlyTrimmedBeard posted:
  07.18.2011 - 8:01 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I think NicoRosbergfan has just as much of a right to comment on NASCAR
as most of the people I see posting here. Considering there is very
little rational discussion here anyway, and usually just sloppy insults,
biased ranting, and general idiocy running through most of the posts, I
don't care if an open wheel fan that doesn't watch the races offers his
opinion. In fact, I welcome the outsider opinion. I like to hear what an
F1 or Indycar fan has to say about NASCAR, even if it is sometimes
ill-informed.

As far as Johnson being lucky, yes he is. Yesterday he caught some
breaks with all the cautions, being able to pit off-sequence a bit, and
pass a bunch of people running out of fuel or conserving fuel later in
the race. But a lot of guys running towards the back could have done the
same thing. The difference is Johnson has the ability to take advantage
of these situations better than anyone, and he'll make a little luck
suddenly look like a lot of luck.


  126.   ii posted:
  07.18.2011 - 8:33 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"If Jimmie and his team do indeed have horseshoes rammed up their
collective butts, it's only because they earned it."

Well, how do you think he's won 5 championships in a row?


  127.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.18.2011 - 8:42 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I use live leaderboard. Who wants to give France his precious ratings.
JJNTB, thank you for respecting my opinions. It is amazing how people
bash me for complaining about NASCAR when I am an F1/IndyCar person, but
the same people post rude comments on the F1 and IndyCar pages. I only
pay attention for the fact memorzing the list of winners of the crown
jewel races (Daytona 500, Coke 600, Talladega, Brickyard, Darlington,
etc.) and other factoids and be the NASCAR encyclopedia despite being a
turncoat after watching since I was one year old.


  128.   Cooper posted:
  07.18.2011 - 8:58 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

NicoRosbergFan, you haven't said anything wrong yet. I respect all
opinions. You don't have to be a NASCAR fan to be here or talk about it.
Keep commenting.

"125. JimmieJohnsonsNeatlyTrimmedBeard posted:
07.18.11 - 8:01 pm"
I wonder what side I'm on. Rational Discussion side or Biased Ranting
Side. Maybe a little bit of both....


  129.   myothercarisanM535i posted:
  07.18.2011 - 9:29 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I'm with Nico in terms of being an outsider looking in. There are many,
many things about NASCAR that I disagree with, such as the handling of
caution flags, "debris" cautions, Cup drivers in NW and Truck races,
drivers being able to wreck other drivers without nad punishment, etc,
etc. But NASCAR is still my second favourite form of motorsport, behind
V8 Supercars.

However Nico, I will say that I think you're belief about Hendrick
sabotaging his own cars is nonsense and your consipracy theory about
team orders is a bit silly too. Of course team mates will help team
mates out and there is nothing wrong with that. But yeah, I still don't
agree with your argument about the #48's success.

Jimmie Johnson, Chad Knaus and Rick Hendrick is just one of those magic
combinations where everything just works. Just like Jamie Whincup and
Triple-Eight, Sebastien Vettal and Red Bull, Sebastien Loeb and Citroen,
etc etc.


  130.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.18.2011 - 10:28 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

First, IglooRacer, that was me that has been posting that Kasey Kahne
will add something, not just to the #5 car next year when he arrives,
but the info he can give will also aid the #24 car, as Mark Martin has
just gotten too old, losing the one battle no living being can win, and
that's the one against Father Time.

Then, Cooper, I don't know what races you've been watching this year,
but the #24 car has been, by far in several cases, the top Hendrick
Motorsports car. After all, Gordon has the team's only two wins in races
that the driver actually matters in. Granted, he wasn't as consistent as
Johnson was earlier in the season, and doesn't have nearly as many laps
led (short tracks can really make that stat look more one-sided than it
actually is), but he and his team have easily been the cream of the crop
at HMS this year. It's true that the #5 team bring that Hendrick shop
down on average, but I don't see that staying the same for next year.

As for NicoRosbergFan's assertion that Hendrick favored Jeff over Terry
Labonte. Well, that's just hogwash. Unless I'm mistaken, didn't Labonte
actually win a title in the middle of Gordon's reign? Gordon's cars
appeared to be faster than Labonte's simply because Jeff drove them much
harder. HMS began to tilt things toward the #24 car when Ray Evernham
took over the competition side of the organization in mid-to-latr 1997,
as well as when Rick's brother John took over day-to-day running of the
team when Rick Hendrick had his problems.

As for Hendrick getting off lightly from his involvement in the Honda
dealer scandal in 1996, because he's wasn't put in prison.
NicoRosbergFan, have you or anyone else forgotten that Hendrick was, at
the time, also suffering through life-threatening leukemia? That's why
he wasn't put behind bars, because to do so, may have cost him his life.

I do agree with post #125, which said that there isn't always
intelligent posting done here, though I think there is a lot more than
what that poster has been giving others credit for. I know that I often
try to back up what I post with facts, often times, historical facts and
figures, because I think the more info is given, the more people may
actually learn, ewspecially if it's accurate information. And again, if
anything I post is inaccurate from a factual point of view, please
correct me, if your info is accurate. Those that do will not only do me
a favor, but also anyone else that looks at comments pages, because
everyone that visits should not only view, and hopefully post
intelligent comments, but those that view should also learn things
through the posts that have info based on facts, current or historical.


  131.   Cooper posted:
  07.18.2011 - 10:44 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"129. cjs3872 posted:
07.18.11 - 10:28 pm
Then, Cooper, I don't know what races you've been watching this year,
but the #24 car has been, by far in several cases, the top Hendrick
Motorsports car"

Jeff Gordon has been driving out of his mind this year. It's not the
equipment this year. I know that the #24/#5 are behind and that's why
Mark Martin has been struggling. Yes Mark might be getting older but to
go from title contender to irrelevant in two years means it's more than
just the driver.

Jeff Gordon has impressed the hell out of me this year. I'm not a big
fan of his, but watching him race this year has been incredible. That
guy doesn't get enough respect around here and it's a little bit
annoying. Jeff is NOT getting as good as cars as Jimmie and I personally
believe he is outperforming his team.

In my opinion he's been the most impressive driver this year. Usually
Hendrick "South" is a death pit but somehow Jeff has survived. Jeff is
getting the most out of his equipment more than anybody else in the
Sprint Cup garage. (Kasey Kahne is a close second)

MY OPINION: The reason the #24 is sitting 7th in the points is because
of the guy in the driver seat. And that is a big compliment coming from
me. Because in most cases I believe a successful team is 90% Team/10%
Driver and the #24 has been the exact opposite.

cjs what do you think? Is it driver or equipment for the #24?


  132.   Eric posted:
  07.18.2011 - 11:33 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

What some people forgot about what happened to Mark Martin could be
pointed to what happened during the 2009 off season. Mark Martin never
recovered from what happened after the 2009 season was over.

Rick Hendrick wanted the 88 team to be more competitive and a switched
on some personnel including engineers happened between the 5 and the 88
team and that happened after the 2009 season. What was found out was
some of the personnel from that switch actually was inferior on the 88
team in 2009 and made Mark's team weaker as a result.

The switch between the 5,24 and 88 after 2010 season was designed to
help Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhardt Jr., but exactly for helping Mark
out. The fact is Mark's a lame duck driver this season.


  133.   Eric posted:
  07.18.2011 - 11:43 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I forgot to mention one of the reasons why Rick Hendrick made that
personnel swap after the 2009 season was the fact Dale Earnhardt Jr. is
like a son to Rick besides the fact the 88 got a lot of sponsor money
and Rick wanted to make the sponsors of the 88 car happy as result since
sponsors of the 88 car spent around 25 to 30 million dollars a seson.

One thing is certain, Dale Jr. probably wouldn't be getting that much
sponsor money from a combination of sponsors again and rightfully so.
Right now the 25 to 30 million dollars a year for the combination of
sponsors for the 88 car is biggest rip off you could get based on money
sponsors spent for a cup victory.

Mark got a raw deal on that personnel switch that didn't include the
crew chief after the 2009 season.


  134.   Eric posted:
  07.18.2011 - 11:43 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I forgot to correct seson as Season.


  135.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.19.2011 - 12:10 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Eric, I agree on what happened to Mark Martin's team that caused his
downfall. I don't believe the driver is the problem with that team right
now because I have a hard time believing a driver could just lose his
edge over one off-season.


  136.   Electric Flash Yo posted:
  07.19.2011 - 3:37 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

RCRandPenske Guy you are my hero! I love those 2 race teams as well :D.
But Burton seriously needs to go. 19 races without a Top 10 this year is
pathetic. And did you know Jamie Mac is 29th in points? Worse
performance ever! OK, maybe not, but it shows Jamie blows.


  137.   Jocke Persson posted:
  07.19.2011 - 7:00 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Lenox Industrial Tools 301 took 3 hours, 3 minutes, 33 seconds.

Car number 33 led for 3 laps.

3 drivers failed to qualify,
33+3 drivers finished the race
first accident of the race was in turn 3


  138.   Anonymous posted:
  07.19.2011 - 7:05 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"At the end of the year (aka the Chase), Jeff got crap cars that
couldn't drive in the top 30."

Wait, is that a joke? During the 2007 Chase, Jeff had 2 wins, 6 top 5s,
and 9 top 10s out of 10 races. The race that wasn't a top 10 was an 11th
place finish. He had 30 top 10s that year. Crap cars? Really? You must
have some warped sense of reality to make excuses like that.


  139.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.19.2011 - 7:07 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

I guess sabotage is too severe... but I think Jeff choked away 1996 with
too many mistakes. Notice JG stunk both years that he won at Richmond
(1996, choked; 2000, 9th in points).


  140.   TheTruthâ?¢ posted:
  07.19.2011 - 7:09 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"I use live leaderboard. Who wants to give France his precious ratings."

Yeah, you sure showed him by giving him website hits instead!


  141.   Anonymous posted:
  07.19.2011 - 7:46 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

NASCAR.com is owned by Turner Group; however, the TV contracts are held
by NASCAR. Things like green-white-checkered and free pass were done for
TV ratings, not website hits.


  142.   Spen posted:
  07.19.2011 - 7:53 am
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

What the heck has happened to Burton anyway? Last year, he was actually
ahead of Harvick in driver rating up until the chase, and even then he
wasn't actually the worst chase performer, regardless of his last place
finish. He's been resigned, so he's not in lame-duck status, and while I
don't think Berrier is the right crew cheif for him, they're not *this*
bad of a match. And you don't go from being the seventh best driver to
the twenty-fifth best driver overnight. Yeah, he's getting older, but
not enough for this big a change.


  143.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.19.2011 - 9:03 am
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Cooper, I think it is both the driver and the equipment that's
propelling Gordon back to his old ways this season. As I've noted, that
problem with the #5 team is Martin's age, which was showing signs of
getting the best of him last year, and totally has this year. As for the
other Hendrick shop, the #48 car has been okay this year, while showing
some flashes of brilliance, but his pit crew has been holding him back,
for about 18 months now. and Dale, Jr. is, well, Dale, Jr.. I never
truly believed that Dale Earnhardt, Jr. would be that successful at
Hendrick Motorsports, mainly because his train of thinking, as well as
his personality never fit the Hendrick mold. And as usual, both he and
crew chief Steve Letarte are fading as the year goes on. That's been
Earnhardt's MO for years, and that's also been Letarte's MO for the past
several years.

Also, I think another reason for Gordon's rebirth this year has been
getting away from Chad Knaus, who never really shared information with
the #24 team while Gordon was there, simply because he was afraid that
Gordon would beat the #48 team. That happened in the Chase in both 2004
and 2007, and the lack of sharing information may also have contributed
to what happened to Gordon in 2005 after a third of the season was
complete, which continued in 2006.

But Cooper, back to your question about why Gordon has had a rebirth
this year. I think it is the equipment, which is still top-notch, but it
also has to do with the driver, as well as Jeff having a crew chief
(Alan Gustavson)that knows the ins-and-outs of a car for the first time
since Ray Evernham was his crew chief, and we all know how that ended
up. He also has a pit crew that, unlike Johnson's, doesn't seem to be
making any mistakes this year. At least for now. But we'll see what
happens when the pressure is amped up for the Chase, assuming he makes
it, which with the two wins he has so far this year, and he'll probably
win at least one more the way he's running (a fifth Brickyard,
perhaps?), he's practically a lock to make the Chase this year, even if
falls back out of the top 10 in points.


  144.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.19.2011 - 9:15 am
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And Spen, what happened to the Richard Childress team, as they are not
running nearly as well as they did last year, can, in my opinion,
clearly be traced back to what happened in the first few days after the
first Chase race last year (when Clint Bowyer won at New Hampshire and
was penalized a race worth of points after failing inspection at the
lab). That's because that's what Childress had been doing with his cars
the entire year, and had finally been caught. None of the Childress cars
have really been good since then. Even Harvick, who's won three times
this year, hasn't really been that good, but he has been fortunate. He
wasn't really that good in the races that he won, a statement that can
be backed up by the fact that in those three wins, he led a total of
nine laps. He was just up front at the right time, but he wasn't that
good during those races, and the fall of he and his teammates can be
directly attributed to the body modification infraction that they were
finally caught with late last year, because they were doing it all year.
Remember, RCR wasn't that good toward the end of last year after that
infraction was found.

As for the problems with Burton, it could very well be the fourth RCR
team, which may have overtaxed the organization, to Burton's detriment.
If I remember right, when RCR expanded to four teams the first time, the
entire organization suffered. History is repeating itself, as the
expansion is hurting both Burton and Clint Bowyer. I also think that one
of those two (probably Burton) is being made a sacrificial lamb, so
Austin Dillon will eventually replace him sooner rather than later. My
opinion is that Burton is that driver, because he is older and more
conservative on the track. I also think that RCR has still not fully
recovered from what happened at the Daytona 500 when two of their
engines failed, including Burton's.


  145.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.19.2011 - 10:12 am
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Cjs- didn't Burton resign to a three year contract with RCR?
Like always, harvick is the top driver there, he is the most talented
driver in that team.
Bowyer is so so, like he always has been.
Burton has been sliding downward for three years.
Menard can't put together a full race. He was top ten or fifteen for
about 80% of this race it seemed and they couldn't seal the deal. He's
been doing that almost all year.

Cjs I don't think they were doing it all year cuz harvick had already
won 3 races before bowyer so they would have caught him at tally, if not
then michigan cuz it's a way different track. maybe it was something
they were trying at flat tracks?

They are doing better second time around with expanding, I still
expected growing pains though. I think no one should be expecting more
then what they have given them.


  146.   Matthew Sullivan posted:
  07.19.2011 - 11:59 am
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The last three stops of the day for Junior, the only thing that was
changed on his car were the tires. He drove up to the top 10 before
making what his team was hoping would be the final stop of the race.
They took two left sides and after that the car went to junk. There was
no way they were going to stay in the top 15 with how the car appeared
to be driving. On the last caution, he came in to take two lefts again
but of course got the penalty which didn't hurt all that much since they
were at the tail end of the lead lap anyway. After bolting on two
rights, the car came back to being fairly decent and Junior was able to
drive around several cars and get a decent 15th place finish.


  147.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.19.2011 - 1:20 pm
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"Now, about that horseshoe - persoanlly, I believe that Jimmie, Chad and
the rest of the 48 team makes it's own good luck."

I definitely agree. They put themselves in good positions the vast
majority of the time, and Jimmie seems to have a knack for knowing when
chaos will erupt and how to avoid it. I always thought it was ironic
that Harvick of all people said that. He has 17 wins in 10 and 1/2
years, and only 3 of those were a result of him just taking it to the
field. He is the one whose strategy is just "hang around and hope a LOT
of people fall prey to bad luck or beat themselves". In 10 of JJ's
victories he led more than half the laps, while coming darn close in
many others. Harvick has only done that twice. Only 4 of those win saw
him leading the most laps. Lucky? I say good. Historically good. (After
reading that last sentence, ESPN just offered me a contract)

"MY OPINION: The reason the #24 is sitting 7th in the points is because
of the guy in the driver seat."

I agree. They have given him a few good cars, but the 24 team has been
far from the 7th best team all year. I think he has finally recovered
from his back injuries and is finally getting a grip on this COT. Plus,
getting to be a leader in his own shop again has re-energized him.


  148.   Anonymous85 posted:
  07.19.2011 - 2:02 pm
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DSFF: You know what the intimidator's greatest disappointment was it
wasn't losing on the last lap of either the 1989 Holly farms 400 or the
1990 Daytona 500 his greatest disappointment by far is his son Dale Jr
because like you said ever since 2004 he has done absolutely nothing


  149.   Anonymous85 posted:
  07.19.2011 - 2:07 pm
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Dale Jr is a bigger screw up then charlie sheen


  150.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.19.2011 - 2:25 pm
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IglooRacer, I didn't say that Burton was going to be released
immediately, as Austin Dillon isn't ready yet for a part-time Cup gig,
much less a full-time Cup gig. I just said that Burton's and Bowyer's
performance has gone downhill, in my opinion due to the addition of the
fourth Cup team.

As for the RCR cars not comforming to the rules, in my opinion, they
were at least pushing it all season last year, if they weren't in
violation of the rules, and after the fall race at Loudon, they were
finally caught. Why else do you think they haven't performed since then?
Yes, I think they may have been in violation of the rules more than
once, but were only actually caught the one time. Also, Bowyer's team
had apparently been warned more than once prior to that incident at NH
last fall.

As for the comments about Gordon's team not being the seventh-best this
season. That was definately true in the first 10-12 races, no doubt. But
in the last five or six, I would put the #24 team in the top three to
five. So on balance for the entire season, seventh-best for the overall
season is about accurate for the year thus far. I still think that
Kahne's arrival will boost that team as well as the #5 team next year.
Also, I think both Gordon and Kahne, since their backgrounds are almost
identical, will add something to the others' teams, since they like
pretty much the same things in their cars. And yes, Gordon has been a
leader in the 5/24 shop. Like I mentioned in post #143, the best thing
that could possibly have happened to Gordon was that he got away from
Chad Knaus, and I think that has also improved his outlook on things, as
well as his improving health.


  151.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.19.2011 - 3:03 pm
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It is sad to watch the guys (MM, Jeff G, Jeff B, Nemechek, etc.) who got
taught to drive by the guys of the 70s and 80s (Yarborough, Pearson,
Waltrip, etc.) slowly fade away. Pretty soon it will be all pretty boys
who can't drive any car unless it has modern, 100% effective power
steering.


  152.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.19.2011 - 3:06 pm
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Cjs you said sooner rather than later. I'm not saying Austin is ready
either but to me RC should not have done that contract with Burton just
due to performance and (sadly) his age.

I do remember bowyers team being warned before new Hampshire but you
ignore what I said in that harvick went through the same inspection 3
times before bowyer won and passed all three times. To me they couldn't
have been cheating all year cuz of that, when you say they were finally
caught sounds to me like that accusation of cheating all year. Correct
me if I'm wrong please.

Anonymous85 or whoever said it- that's pretty ignorant to be calling jr.
the intimidators biggest disappointment. I'm no fan of jr but come on,
if Dale sr. was still alive he would be proud of his boy no matter what.


  153.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.19.2011 - 3:22 pm
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Nicorosbergfan- if technology itself can evolve, why can't nascars
technology? Think of all the tech F1 uses......

Cjs- I forget to mention I enjoy debating with you


  154.   Talon64 posted:
  07.19.2011 - 4:03 pm
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"Talon64 I didn't say that Gordon got the worst cars in 2007 & 2009
NicoRosbergFan was the one who made that statement"

sorry about that, I copy and pasted his comment which was in response to
you.

And I agree with what everyone's saying about Jeff Gordon. I'd go as far
as saying this has been his best season in 4 years; even though he was
3rd in points in 2009 I never felt like he was a real championship
threat that season since he was still 2nd fiddle to Jimmie and the #48
within the A shop. Now he's not only contending for wins, like he was
the past few seasons, but cashing in and coming through in the end to
ACTUALLY win races.

It's a shame he had shit luck in Loudon but to even end up 11th was
pretty amazing.

I used to hate Jeff Gordon but now, among the top 6 or 7 guys (Carl,
Kyle, Harvick, Kurt, Jimmie, Kenseth and Gordon) who will probably be
contending for the championship in the Chase, I might end up rooting for
him the most.


  155.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.19.2011 - 4:07 pm
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IglooRacer: My point is that NASCAR's technology has evolved to the
point that there is little skill left. Before there the 2000s, there
used to be essentially two years of little or no production before
learning to win.


  156.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.19.2011 - 4:09 pm
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Continuing from comment 154... notice JG and even guys like Rusty, Bill,
and Darrell, it took 2 to 5 years just to get a 1st win. Now they win in
their rookie years or get fired.


  157.   Talon64 posted:
  07.19.2011 - 6:06 pm
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1999-2006 blew team's standards of rookies way out of proportion with
good-great rookie seasons from guys like Tony Stewart, Dale Jr., Matt
Kenseth, Kevin Harvick, Ryan Newman, Jimmie Johnson, Jamie McMurray,
Greg Biffle (if only for his Daytona win), Kasey Kahne, Kyle Busch,
Denny Hamlin and Clint Bowyer.

hell, Jimmie and Deny were even contending for the championship in their
rookie seasons!

Now the combination of no testing, lack of sponsorship and the Cup
teams/drivers' stranglehold on Nationwide has all combined to result in
lackluster rookie seasons (2008 as a whole, Logano and Speed in 2009)
and no legitimate rookies at all the last two seasons.

Thankfully there's guys like Trevor Bayne, Ricky Stenhouse Jr., Justin
Allgaier, Austin Dillon and nearly the entire 2011 Truck Series rookie
class who're in the pipe line (and most are already hooked up with Cup
teams) ready to turns things around as far as talent coming up into Cup.


  158.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.19.2011 - 7:23 pm
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I think, with RCR, they are just going through their normal cycle. Ever
since they fell behind the curve (beginning in '97, possibly late '96)
they have had seasons where they totally look like crap ('98, '02,
'04-'05, '09), then seasons where they bounce back strong ('00-'01, '03,
'06, '10) then a few "tweener" years where they are don't suck, but they
aren't great, they are just kinda there, able to pounce sometimes ('99,
'07-'08, this year). The fact is they haven't put really good seasons
together back to back since '94 and '95 (hard to say about '96,
obviously Dale's injuries set them back badly but I think they were
starting to fall behind at that point). I didn't expect a great season
from them this year. They have only had a few of those since '95.

They added the 2nd team in '97 and went winless as Gordon dominated,
Skinner crashed a lot, and Dale battled nagging injuries and a crew
chief he never developed any chemistry with. Yeah, Dale finished 5th in
points, but that was just because they finished every race. They weren't
contenders. 1998 was an embarrassment, the Daytona 500 win
notwithstanding. Dale has had worse point finishes, but never in his
career was he as badly outrun as he was by Gordon and the Fords that
year. 1999 was better from a speed perspective. But he was still lagging
badly behind DJ, Labonte, Mark, and even rookie Tony Stewart. They
caught back up in 2000. With Dale having offseason surgery on his broken
neck (!!!) and being rejuvenated by his son becoming a superstar, he was
able to take their much improved Monte Carlos to a distant 2nd place
points finish. He got within 45 points of Bobby by mid summer, but he
blew a tire at Pocono, Bobby dominated Indy, then Dale screwed up on the
first lap at Watkins Glen and that was the end of his title hopes.

2001 is hard to judge. Obviously the team was in shock after Daytona.
But their cars were realy good as Harvick won two races on 1.5 mile
tracks. However, they were slipping by the end of the season. How much
of that has to do with the emotional roller coaster they were on, and
how much that had to drain them is unclear.

But in 2002 the cycle started over. RC added a 3rd team, Harvick showed
his ass early and often leading to an April suspension, and their cars
were never close to being on par. Between being ill prepared for a 3rd
team, Harvick acting up, two other drivers not suited for Cup for
different reasons (Robby and Jeff Green), and the realities of life
after Dale setting in, it added up to a disaster. 2003 was a great
recovery, Harvick had a great summer, Robby actually looked like he
could be a Cup driver for once, and they looked really good.

The momentum didn't carry. 2004-05 were mediocre at best. And that is
being kind. Bad cars and bad attitudes from Harvick and Robby, and
drivers like Sauter and Blaney that aren't Cup quality drivers. But Jeff
Burton's arrival and calming influence to counteract Harvick's
"everything sucks and I am always on the verge of doing something
stupid" attitude showed up in 2006. That was the best they have been
speed wise. Kevin won 5 times and him and Burton both led a ton of laps,
something rare with both of them. 2007 and '08 weren't bad, but they
were not continuations of the incredible momentum they had in '06.

2009 restarted it. It was their worst season since 1998 as they
struggled terribly after starting a 4th team (notice a pattern here?).
But it woke them up and 2010 was incredible as Harvick finally made a
serious championship run. But this season seems to be a regression back.
We also have to consider that Clint is not a driver that will win a lot
or run up front all that often. Neither is Burton since his heyday at
Roush. And Paul Menard, although he has done better than I ever thought
he could do, is very limited. Harvick has the championship caliber
talent in the group. But he is a ticking time bomb. I look for another
disaster in '12 or '13, followed by another resurgence the following year.

Just another year in As RCR Turns.


  159.   Spen posted:
  07.19.2011 - 7:55 pm
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"drivers like Sauter and Blaney that aren't Cup quality drivers."
Personally, I think half of Blaney's problem was that he had Philippe
Lopez as his crew chief for most of the year. There's a reason Lopez
works for NEMCO now. Throughout his whole career as a crew chief, he's
had 4 top five's. And when you've spent time with both RCR and DEI,
that's not very good. Heck, Steve Park didn't get a single top ten until
they ditched him. Aside from Hut Stricklin in the '96 Southern 500
(which was their only top ten of the season) his cars tend to be nowhere
at the finish.


  160.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.19.2011 - 8:13 pm
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Dave Blaney is a heck of a driver. When he isn't S&Ping, he drives the
wheels off of the car and overachieves (almost won several races in a
crap team: Doug Bawel, Bill Davis, Tommy Baldwin) no matter who he
drives for. Given the chance, even at 48, I think could actually be a
another Harry Gant and win 5-8 races.


  161.   00andJoe posted:
  07.19.2011 - 8:33 pm
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Blaney has to be considered a dark horse when we go back to Talladega
considering his run back in April.



"Things like green-white-checkered and free pass were done for TV
ratings, not website hits."
Er, GWC maybe, but the free pass was a safety rule replacing racing back
to the yellow flag.


  162.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.19.2011 - 9:14 pm
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Nicorosbergfan- they didn't say win on Sunday, sell on Monday for
nothing. They use the same technology in your cars as they they do in
their race cars. They try to appeal to fans that way. However this will
continue to be a huge debate forever.

RCR is by far the most frustrating team to watch, how a team can be so
close to being a dominate force in NASCAR yet look so lost at times is
beyond me.


  163.   Bronco posted:
  07.19.2011 - 10:36 pm
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First time since Dover in Sept 2004 that Newman led the most laps and
won a race, and the first time since 2004-2005 that he won races in
consecutive season. In his last two wins, he led a total of 12 laps and
won by a combination of luck and right place/right time.

The last time the US Army won a race was with Joe Nemechek at Kansas in
2004, although they nearly won the 2007 Daytona 500 since then.

Dale Jr has probably been the unluckiest driver in the past month, he
lost a possible top ten when his tire carrier slipped and wasn't able to
return the tire to pit wall before the car left the pits. The fact that
he drove from the 30s to finish 15th in 60 laps is pretty impressive and
shows that the team still has it. I say he still makes the chase, but
not by a large margin.




  164.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.19.2011 - 11:57 pm
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"RCRandPenske Guy you are my hero! I love those 2 race teams as well"

Why thank you, I'm honored. LOL

I was never a huge fan of the RCR team until they hired on Jeff Burton
and revitalized his career from irrelevant to somewhat of a contender
again. Burton's one of my favorites so it was nice to see him up front
again. Unfortunately, you're right about his 2011 season so far. I don't
think we can label him as someone who needs to go yet though. If it
doesn't get better towards the end of this season and continues into all
of next year, then yes, it may be time for Burton to step aside.

As for Penske, I pulled for Rusty when he drove for them but had no one
to root for at the team for a while after he retired. I've never liked
Ryan Newman or Kurt Busch. In fact, it wasn't until Penske signed
Keselowski that I once again rooted for a Penske driver (I'd started
rooting for Brad back in '07 though).


  165.   18fan posted:
  07.20.2011 - 12:30 am
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More crew chief changes. In addition to Greg Erwin replacing Mike
Shiplett with Allmendinger, Jim Pohlman has replaced Brian Pattie as
crew chief for Juan Pablo Montoya.


  166.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.20.2011 - 8:06 am
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IglooRacer, they (RCR) had been pushing it all year, but you are
accurate in saying that Harvick's car hadn't been caught, and it never
was. But when Bowyer's car was caught, the team stopped pushing it, and
they haven't been the same since then. Remember the HMS fender fiasco at
Sonoma in 2007? It took them quite a while for them to get back to where
they were, performance-wise with the current car. (Jeff Gordon hadn't
really performed well since then, until now.) As for my statement about
Burton, yes I may have made a slight misstep there, but I think Burton
will be there through 2013, unless this season is a sign of things to
come, but unlike Martin, I don't think Burton is too old to be
competitve, yet.

Bronco, you forgot to mention the 2005 Coca-Cola 600, which Nemechek had
in the bag in the U.S. Army car until a blown tire caused him to crash
less than 10 laps from the finish.

Talon64, while I agree about all your drivers to watch in the future,
there may be issues with all of them.

First, as I mentioned, Austin Dillon is not ready yet for even a
part-time Cup gig, much less a full-time gig.

Bayne, who is the most ready, in my view, will be stuck with a part-time
gig in the #21 car for the forseeable future, unless Carl Edwards leaves
Roush and David Ragan is released.

Stenhouse, who I'm highest on, has to develop patience, as he nearly
took out himself, Justin Allgaier, and Bayne with an extremly
overambitious move that was never goping to work in a million years, and
then instigated the incident that took Jason Leffler out later in that
same race at New Hampshire when he pushed Steve Wallace into Leffler
(the replay angle from across the back straightaway clearly shows that).

Justin Allgaier would not even have a team to go to, and the future of
Cole Whitt is also in some doubt with his sponsor possibly leaving the
sport at season's end. But there's another young driver that, based on
his performace this year, may be adding his name to that list of
youngsters to watch in the future, and that's one-time Hendrick
development driver Landon Cassill, who's performing minor miracles in
the Phoenix Racing car in almost every race. In fact, when Jeff Gordon
won at Pocono, it was Cassill he passed for the lead with about 50 miles
to go. So add Cassill to the list of those to watch in the future,
especially if he keeps performing the way he has this year. and prior to
this year, I wasn't high on Cassill at all.


  167.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.20.2011 - 12:52 pm
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Intersting news. It's just been reported that Allan Bestwick, who hadled
the play-by-play duties for NBC/TNT from 2001-'04, has just been named
the play-by-play man for the ABC/ESPN telecasts this year, starting with
the Brickyard 400. Bestwick hadled the play-by-play for that race, as
mentioned from 2001-'04. The analysts, both in the booth, as well as
Race Central, remain the same, while Nicole Briscoe becomes the new host
for the broadcasts, joining Rusty Wallace and Brad Daugherty in Race
Central, while Tim Brewer reaimns in his role. Marty Reid, is either out
of the Cup telecasts all together, or will be one of the pit road
reporters, when he's not the lead man for the Nationwide and/or IndyCar
broadcasts that ABC is doing the remainder of the year.


  168.   IglooRacer posted:
  07.20.2011 - 12:58 pm
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Cjs- I mentioned I wanted to see Landon Cassill in the 24 car when
Gordon retires. But it would be a gamble though.

To me Cole Whitt is a huge unknown, how much money do you think red bull
gives to his team? Do you think that gives him an advantage?


  169.   DaleSrFanForever posted:
  07.20.2011 - 1:14 pm
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Its about damn time.


  170.   00andJoe posted:
  07.20.2011 - 1:39 pm
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I'm no real fan of Bestwick, but anybody other than Ray Dunlap would be
an improvement compared to Reid...


This just in: Erik Darnell will be driving the #46 in the remainder of
the oval races this year.

My thought: Is it too late for him to register for ROTY? It bugs me to
no end when drivers throw away their eligibility.


  171.   Talon64 posted:
  07.20.2011 - 3:27 pm
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"First, as I mentioned, Austin Dillon is not ready yet for even a
part-time Cup gig, much less a full-time gig."

He definitely needs a season or two in Nationwide, but that's where
he'll probably be next season.

"Bayne, who is the most ready, in my view, will be stuck with a
part-time gig in the #21 car for the forseeable future, unless Carl
Edwards leaves Roush and David Ragan is released."

I think they'll find a way to get the #21 running full time next season.
Have you seen the NASCAR commercials where they're trying to get him a
nickname? They're marketing the hell out of him and I think it'll pay off.

And there's the outside chance of Bayne hooking up with RPM, which is
basically to Roush what SHR is to HMS.

"Stenhouse, who I'm highest on, has to develop patience, as he nearly
took out himself, Justin Allgaier, and Bayne with an extremly
overambitious move that was never goping to work in a million years, and
then instigated the incident that took Jason Leffler out later in that
same race at New Hampshire when he pushed Steve Wallace into Leffler
(the replay angle from across the back straightaway clearly shows that)."

Stenhouse has already shown so much improvement, both in performance and
his racecraft, from last year that I'm not worried about bumps in the
road here and there.

"Justin Allgaier would not even have a team to go to,"

Turner has Hendrick engines and has had current Hendrick driver Mark
Martin and future Hendrick driver Kasey Kahne driving their cars this
season. So you never know... plus there's always the chance that Turner
moves up to Cup in the near future.

"and the future of Cole Whitt is also in some doubt with his sponsor
possibly leaving the sport at season's end."

I'd hope Red Bull would keep him aboard as one of the drivers that they
directly sponsor. If so then there'll be a lot of teams calling to pick
him up.

"But there's another young driver that, based on his performace this
year, may be adding his name to that list of youngsters to watch in the
future, and that's one-time Hendrick development driver Landon Cassill,
who's performing minor miracles in the Phoenix Racing car in almost
every race. In fact, when Jeff Gordon won at Pocono, it was Cassill he
passed for the lead with about 50 miles to go. So add Cassill to the
list of those to watch in the future, especially if he keeps performing
the way he has this year. and prior to this year, I wasn't high on
Cassill at all."

As far as I can tell he's still affiliated with HMS since he's tested
their cars recently.

But out of all the drivers mentioned, nobody else has had to work as
hard as Cassill has to even have a ride; with hardly any experience he
was regularly qualifying for races in crap equipment last season (as far
as I'm concerned he was ROTY) and he's managed to turn that into a full
time Cup ride with Finch (can he be ROTY two years in a row? lol).

It's hard to see him ever getting a ride with Hendrick, their driver
situation's pretty secure for at least the next few years. But hopefully
this'll end up turning into something better for him in the future.


  172.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.20.2011 - 4:49 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Okay, here's my summation of your viewpoints on those drivers:

We agree wholeheartedly on Austin Dillon, so there's nothing more to add
to that.

As for Bayne, I'm not sure I'd wish the Wood Brothers going full-time,
or a ride with Richard Petty Motorsports on any up-and-coming driver,
because I don't think either would be very good proposition at all. With
the Wood's being a single-car team, even if they get sponsorship to run
full-time, there's no way they'd ever be competitve again, and I don't
think the Petty operation is very much above that. They may be a two-car
team, but I just don't tihnk, with Richard Petty running the operation,
that they could ever get a top-notch driver to stay very long. Remember
how quickly Kasey Kahne wanted to get out of there, even before RPM's
money troubles hit late last year. He was so eager to leave, that he was
willing to risk his ENTIRE 2011 season to leave early.

Also, while NASCAR is trying to push Bayne across the country in it's
commercials, it's interesting that NO sponsor has come his direction for
more than a year now (other than Ford, which came with the Wood Brothers
ride). So if Bayne winds up with a ride with RPM, or if the Wood
Brothers go full-time with him, he may not be long for the sport, at
least as a candidate for one of the top rides.

As for Stenhouse, I think has a built-in ride with Roush, unlike Bayne,
so I think his future, at least short-term is secure, though, I would
prefer, if just one of the two Roush seats became available, that Bayne
move into the Roush seat, with Stenhouse moving into the part-time #21
car, because, as I mentioned, that It think Bayne is the more ready
among the two.

As for Allgaier, he might already have run some Cup races this year, if
sponsorship hadn't dried up at Penske, because that's the only reason he
left. As for potential teams, the only one I could see would be a
possible seat at Stewart-Haas, if he wanted to stay within the Hendrick
umbrella, as you mentioned. I don't see Turner Motorsports going to Cup
as a good idea right noe, and even if id did, I think Turner Motorsports
should put Reed Sorenson in the car with a veteran teammate ahead of
Allgaier, since Sorenson has 161 Cup starts under his belt.

Now, for Cole Whitt. First, I want to argue about whether he belongs by
mentioning that he won the pole for his Darlington debut. You don't win
a pole there and run with the leaders the entire race like he did
without talent, so let's put that to bed, right here and now. As for
Whitt's sponsorship situation, it's just like Trevor Bayne's. If he
can't find sponsorship, he may be out of luck, as teams in the
Nationwide series want drivers with elite NNS or Cup experience to fill
their top rides, with rare execeptions (like Austin Dillon due to his
family connections).

As for Landon Cassill, he, to me, is the biggest surprise of the year,
and I wasn't aware that he was still on Hendrick's payroll as a
development driver. But he's in the same boat as Allgaier. A potential
star of the future with nowhere to go. The only difference is that he's
in a Cup car, with James Finch's Phoenix Racing, a team that has had
drivers like Neil Bonnett, Jeff Purvis, Geoff Bodine, Mike Wallace, and
of course, Brad Keselowski, the only driver to win a Cup race for that
team.


  173.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.20.2011 - 4:50 pm
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Sorry, I forgot to mention you, Talon64. Most of that post was directed
as your viewpoints on those drivers, and their potential future status.


  174.   Talon64 posted:
  07.20.2011 - 5:39 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"Now, for Cole Whitt. First, I want to argue about whether he belongs by
mentioning that he won the pole for his Darlington debut. You don't win
a pole there and run with the leaders the entire race like he did
without talent, so let's put that to bed, right here and now. As for
Whitt's sponsorship situation, it's just like Trevor Bayne's. If he
can't find sponsorship, he may be out of luck, as teams in the
Nationwide series want drivers with elite NNS or Cup experience to fill
their top rides, with rare execeptions (like Austin Dillon due to his
family connections)."

Whitt's sponsorship situation's going to depend on whether Red Bull
sticks with him and supports him like they do Travis Pastrana, among
other drivers/athletes around the world. Red Bull's bailing on ownership
but we don't yet if or how they'll remain as a sponsorship entity.

At least he won't get shoved up to Cup too early, which was a pretty big
concern before RBR pulled the plug.

But that Darlington pole was definitely impressive, plus the way he
rebounded from early engine issues to get back into the top 5 and end up
7th.

"As for Bayne, I'm not sure I'd wish the Wood Brothers going full-time,
or a ride with Richard Petty Motorsports on any up-and-coming driver,
because I don't think either would be very good proposition at all. With
the Wood's being a single-car team, even if they get sponsorship to run
full-time, there's no way they'd ever be competitve again, and I don't
think the Petty operation is very much above that. They may be a two-car
team, but I just don't tihnk, with Richard Petty running the operation,
that they could ever get a top-notch driver to stay very long. Remember
how quickly Kasey Kahne wanted to get out of there, even before RPM's
money troubles hit late last year. He was so eager to leave, that he was
willing to risk his ENTIRE 2011 season to leave early."

I doubt how in-charge RP really is at RPM, although I don't really know
how the team's structured; I'm pretty sure Robbie Loomis is still there
as the competition director though. But like you said, Bayne's the most
ready for a Cup ride right now and especially a full time ride. His NNS
ride doesn't have any sponsorship either so him, Roush and the WBs might
be better off attracting sponsorship for the Cup effort.

RPM might be an unlikely place for Bayne to go to, but I'm pretty sure
there were rumors after Bayne made the switch to Roush last season that
he was going to run some races with RPM in 2011. Obviously that didn't
happen, but you never know...

Someone else worth mentioning is Parker Kligerman, Penske developmental
driver, who's done a great job with BKR in the Trucks, a single-truck
Dodge team without any factory support that Parker's nearly led to a
couple of wins already this season. He also won the pole at Kansas in
his Nationwide debut in 2009 and had a couple top 10's last season
driving for back marker teams. Hopefully he'll split a car with
Keselowski in NNS next season.


  175.   Smokefan05 posted:
  07.20.2011 - 6:06 pm
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"Intersting news. It's just been reported that Allan Bestwick, who
hadled the play-by-play duties for NBC/TNT from 2001-'04, has just been
named the play-by-play man for the ABC/ESPN telecasts this year,
starting with the Brickyard 400. Bestwick hadled the play-by-play for
that race, as mentioned from 2001-'04. The analysts, both in the booth,
as well as Race Central, remain the same, while Nicole Briscoe becomes
the new host for the broadcasts, joining Rusty Wallace and Brad
Daugherty in Race Central, while Tim Brewer reaimns in his role. Marty
Reid, is either out of the Cup telecasts all together, or will be one of
the pit road reporters, when he's not the lead man for the Nationwide
and/or IndyCar broadcasts that ABC is doing the remainder of the year."

While this is the only ESPN has done right for covering NASCAR, it still
doesn't mean that NASCAR should re-sign with them. They still suck at
covering it and review it.


  176.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.20.2011 - 10:05 pm
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Talon64, there's no doubt that Richard Petty IS the man in charge of
that operation. Petty is like A.J. Foyt in that way. they may put other
people in charge of aspects of the racing team, but there's absolutely
no doubt that Petty is THE man in charge of his operation, and the same
is true of A.J. Foyt. That has definately worked in the detriment of
both men's organizations through the years, but with people as
strong-willed as Petty and Foyt, as well as Bud Moore, Bobby Allison,
Cale Yarborough were when they owned their race teams, there is
absoultely no doubt as to the person who's in charge of the entire
operation.

As for your mentioning Parker Kligerman, I completely forgot about him,
but he may be in the same situation that Justin Allgaier was there at
Penske, or that Trevor Bayne is at Roush. You also mentioned that,
because the #16 car is unsponsored, and that the Wood Brothers may still
only run part-time because they can't find sponsorship (although The
Woods' problem may also be a personnel problem, as in the lack of the
quantity of personnel there), I have brought up the fact that the same
thing that wound up bringing Bayne to Roush in the first place, may also
end up being the reason Roush may have to let him go, and that's the
lack of sponsorship, as well as the lack of a quality ride. As I have
mentioned, there is a possibilty that Bayne's part-time Cup effort in
the #21 car may be the only races he runs in next year, if sponsorship
can't be found for either the #21 Cup or #16 NNS cars. And remember,
that's not Roush's only sponsorship-related problem.

As it is right now, only one of Roush's four Cup cars are fully
sponsored for next year, and that's the #16 car of Greg Biffle. Plus
there's the situation of potentially two of his four current Cup drivers
departing for next season. Edwards by choice and Ragan by firing. One of
the main reasons I think Edwards may go to Gibbs next year IS the
sponsorship question over at Roush's. and for Ford, Roush IS the only
game in town, as they say. Sure, there are other Ford teams out there
(Richard Petty Motorsports, Wood Brothers Racing, and Front Row
Motorsports), but Roush's is the ONLY one that's competitive on a
consistent basis, and if Roush has to downsize his efforts, which he may
have to due to lack of sponsorship (the #16 NNS car has already missed
one race for that reason this year), it would be a killer blow to Ford's
hopes for the future.


  177.   00andJoe posted:
  07.20.2011 - 11:18 pm
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Speaking of drivers on the hot seat at Roush, I can't help but wonder if
- despite his re-signing earlier this year - Greg Biffle's seat might be
getting warmer than Ragan's. After all, Ragan has a win and has been
steadily marching his way up to "legitimate" Chase territory, while
Biffle has exactly one top 5 all season and only one finish better than
13th in the last nine races...


  178.   Scott B posted:
  07.21.2011 - 11:47 am
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I'm sort of hoping Edwards will leave for Gibbs, just from a job
creation standpoint. That is assuming, of course, that Roush still
fields four Cup teams in 2012 even if they lose Edwards. While that's
not written in stone, I'd say it's probable.

JGR won't expand to bring up a prospect, they will only take the plunge
on a 4th car if they can sign a proven and marketable driver. However,
the fact that they are even talking seriously about adding a fourth car
is one of the few positive signs out there.

Stewart-Haas has no short term plans to expand, and Penske cut back from
3 Cup cars last season to 2 for 2011 and looks to be staying there for
now. Teams like JR Motorsports (which might be a potential spot for
Landon Cassill, with the Hendrick connection) that might move up from
NNW also seem to be on hold with those plans.

So, Edwards to JGR with Roush remaining at 4 teams is the only scenario
where we end up plus-one on a reasonably competitive ride.

And, depending on what happens at Red Bull Racing, we could lose one or
two mid-level rides there, if Jay Frye or someone else can't step in and
salvage something out of that operation.


  179.   Talon64 posted:
  07.21.2011 - 3:29 pm
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Even if Jay Frye can keep RBR going I'd bet that they'll go down to 1
car. And who knows if it'll be Brian Vickers driving it.

I think Vickers either sticks with whatever RBR turns into, or ends up
moving down to Nationwide for next season since there won't be any other
competitive rides available to him. Assuming Bowyer and JPM stay where
they are.


  180.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.21.2011 - 3:38 pm
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SmokeFan05, how can ABC/ESPN possibly be the worst at covering the races
when you have the screaming cheeleaders at FOX, who are far worse than
ESPN. At least the ESPN guys know what the rules are. (Remember what
happened at the All-Star Race when the FOX guys who were covering it for
SPEED didn't even know what the rules of the event were regarding the
pit stop between segments 3 and 4. Meanwhile, ESPN had the
Sorenson-Fellows caution flag debacle covered, and they were the only
ones, including for a while, the NASCAR officials, that knew what the
rules actually were.) And remember, FOX can't even call the start of a
race properly, and haven't since their first year of doing NASCAR races.
After all, who would you rather have, the cheerleading sefl-promoters at
FOX, or ESPN's guys who actually know what they're doing, at least some
of the time. Actually, I'd rather have the TNT crew over either ESPN or
FOX, because they actually know how to call a race (except for Adam
Alexander, of course).

And I'll say it again, if the networks want to know how a race should be
called and presented, they should watch an old race broadcast from the
1970s or '80s from ABC or CBS. On ABC, you had guys like Keith Jackson,
Jim McKay, Bill Flemming, or Jim Lampley calling the races with guys
like Jackie Stewart and Sam Posey doing the analysis. (Al Michaels or Al
Trautwig also occasionally did the honors on the play-by-play.) On CBS,
you had Ken Squier in the booth, with David Hobbs and/or Ned Jarrett in
the commentary booth, and that even pre-dated the 1979 Daytona 500
broadcast. Pit reporters from that era included Chris Economaki, Larry
Nuber, Borck Yates, Mike Joy (the current play-by-play man for FOX),
Jack Arute (who did some booth work for ESPN), and even Jerry Gappens.
Yes, the same Jerry Gappens who's currently the Vice President of the
New Hampshire Motor Speedway.


  181.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.21.2011 - 3:41 pm
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By the way, that should have said Brock Yates as one of the pit
reporters from the '70s and '80s. sorry for the misspelling.


  182.   Smokefan05 posted:
  07.21.2011 - 5:12 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

"SmokeFan05, how can ABC/ESPN possibly be the worst at covering the
races when you have the screaming cheeleaders at FOX, who are far worse
than ESPN. At least the ESPN guys know what the rules are. (Remember
what happened at the All-Star Race when the FOX guys who were covering
it for SPEED didn't even know what the rules of the event were regarding
the pit stop between segments 3 and 4. Meanwhile, ESPN had the
Sorenson-Fellows caution flag debacle covered, and they were the only
ones, including for a while, the NASCAR officials, that knew what the
rules actually were.) And remember, FOX can't even call the start of a
race properly, and haven't since their first year of doing NASCAR races.
After all, who would you rather have, the cheerleading sefl-promoters at
FOX, or ESPN's guys who actually know what they're doing, at least some
of the time. Actually, I'd rather have the TNT crew over either ESPN or
FOX, because they actually know how to call a race (except for Adam
Alexander, of course)."

ESPN may have had the Road AMerica finish covered but what about Elliot
Sadlers crash at Pocono? They screwed up badly that time. We still have
no idea happened to Sadler after he hit the wall (all beat with that 1
camera angle).

Does anybody hear remember when ESPN was coming back to cover NASCAR and
everyone was so happy about it? After like 2-3 years, people where
complaining about much ESPN sucked at it. I'll that speak for itself.

After all of ESPNs screw ups, they (IMHO) have lost the right to cover
NASCAR races. FOX, TNT and even SPEED should cover races.

Oh and does remeber when someone on ESPN (you all know who i'm talking
about) said NASCAR fixes races for Jr.? Yeah how fast did that die out.

ESPN caring for NASCAR is little to none. And watching anyone on ESPN
attempting to report on it is laughable (besides that people that have
knowledge on)


  183.   18fan posted:
  07.21.2011 - 5:26 pm
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cjs, Marty Reid, before he was replaced by Bestwick, had absolutely no
clue what was going on half the time, their pit reporters suck, Brad
Daughtery adds nothing to the broadcast, Rusty Wallace is beyond bad,
and Andy Petree has had moments of rooting for drivers, although not
nearly as blatantly as FOX. I think ESPN is better than FOX, but only
slightly.


  184.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.21.2011 - 7:05 pm
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SmokeFan05, ESPN didn't have Elliott Sadler's crash at Pocono covered
because they didn't have a camera angle that showed him hitting that
barrier. If they did, they would have showed it, though probably not
until they knew Sadler was alright. I remember a Saturday Night Thunder
race from about 1992 or '93 when they refused to show a replay of a
crash because the driver involved had been critically injured. However,
I agree that some of their reporters have no business on a rcing
telecast, especially Brad Daugherty. Daugherty's expertise is in
basketball, not racing. I would have no problem at all with him being an
analyst on their NBA telecasts, because he does have a great deal of
expertise in that area, but not NASCAR racing.

You're also correct that Reid probably didn't belong in the booth, but
rather, he belongs in the pits. I have no problem with Bestwick in the
booth, because he actually has experience in the booth, not just for
NBC/TNT, but also for TBS prior to that in 2000. As for your statements
that they have guys covering the pits that shouldn't be there, I
disagree with that, unless you mean they have too many guys covering the
pits. I am much more forgiving when it comes to pit reporters, since
they are the ones that are covering the real battlefield in a auto race.
Also, pit reporters can only cover a small area of pit road, and with so
many contending cars these days, yoou probably need more pit road
reporters than the one or two you had back from the 70s, 80s, and
early-90s, so I am much more forgiving in that area.

And by the way, SmokeFan05, FOX and SPEED are one and the same entity,
and they would screw up the broadcasts more than they do now, as you
accurately stated. The real problem is that you don't have any Jim
McKays, Ken Squiers, or Keith Jacksons calling races any more, nor do
you have any Ned Jarretts, Benny Parsons', Bobby Unsers, Sam Poseys, or
Jackie Stewarts analyzing races any more. That where the real problem
lies. theclosest thing to that in the analyst department these days is
Wally Dallenbach, Jr., but he only does the TNT summer series, then goes
back to cover the IndyCar races for Versus, the kind of racing his
father made his living in (and nearly won the Indy 500 in 1975).

Until you get guys in the booth that know what they're talking about,
have the passion that the guys in the past used to have, and aren't
self-promoters, racing telecasts will continue to struggle mightily.
Right now, you could combine all the guys doing the NASCAR telecasts
these days across all three broadcast entities, and still not get ONE
broadcast team worthy of the old ABC and CBS broadcast teams of the
1970s, '80s, and early-90s. That's why I think the guys doing the
broadcasts today need to watch a race from the 70's and '80s to find out
what a quality broadcast looks and souns like. That's why what ESPN
Classic did in celebration of the centennial of the Indianapolis 500 was
so great. Seeing those old Indy races (almost every one that ABC did
from 1967 to the present day era) just shows what a long way all the
networks have to go to get back to the golden era of raciong telecasts.
I believe the only classic Indy races that weren't shown were 1965-'66,
'68, '72, and 1973.

While I'm not surprised that a rebroadcast of the 1973 Indy race hasn't
resurfaced (maybe it doesn't exist), because of all the terrible moments
that occurred during that race, that may be why no one even wants to see
that race resurface, though I think a rebroadcast of that race would
good to see, if only because it would be a reminder of how dangerous a
sport that auto racing can be, if everything goes wrong, as it did that
day and year at Indy.


  185.   00andJoe posted:
  07.22.2011 - 1:46 am
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cjs3872 - Say what you want about FOX, but at least they actually...show
the entire freaking starting grid...unlike ESPN which sometimes cuts it
off partway through, and one time clearly had had only half of it
-loaded into their graphics computer-!


  186.   18fan posted:
  07.22.2011 - 3:07 am
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One of my big complaints is that most of the old broadcasts would
actually tell you the entire starting grid, not the first third of the
field or whatever they do now. I don't think we need to have the
broadcasters talk to a driver every race.


  187.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.22.2011 - 8:33 am
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Not only did some of the old broadcasts tell you the entire starting
grid, but the Daytona 500 race broadcasts from 1982-'96, as well as the
Indianapolis 500 broadcasts from 1982-about 1994 or '95 even made a
production out of it, full with a soundtrack. If they're not going to
tell you starting grid while the cars are on the track, or just before
they hit the track, they should do the 80s and 90s soundtrack thing, and
just do a 2-3 minute segment just telling the viewers the starting grid.
The Indy races of the early 90s even gave a background on all the
drivers on the starting grid on the Indy 500 pre-race show that ABC did
back then. But they probably won't do that because it just makes too
much sense. And after all, those doing the broadcasts these days just
want to highlight specific drivers in the races. Never mind the fact
that sometimes the events pick their own storylines, but again, the
networks may not want to follow them, because it wouldn't be the
storylines that they want to follow.


  188.   NicoRosbergFan posted:
  07.22.2011 - 9:09 am
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Nowadays, the broadcasters waste so much time glorifying a handful of
drivers and trying to turn everything into a soap opera that they run
out of time to tell you the starting lineup before the green flag
despite getting 4 or 5 60 second pace laps. About ESPN, they are called
Always Bad Coverage (ABC) by Robin Miller. Anyone remember the 2009
Talladega debacle when DJ said the race was crap? I remember Jarrett
complaining because Jimmie Johnson ended up in the top 10 in a car that
couldn't keep up with 35th place and JJ even nearly went a lap down. He
won the 09 title because his rivals (Mark and Jeff) top 5 cars wrecked
and you got a wreckfest top 10. Anyone remember this race?


  189.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.22.2011 - 12:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

NicoRosbergFan, your point about broadcastsers glorifying a cretain
group of drivers is exactly the point I was bringing up in post #186. As
for Robin Miller's calling ABC coverage "Always Bad Coverage"? He, or
anyone else could make that particular comment about ANY broadcast team
doing racing today. He uses ABC, because each letter in the network's
name is the first letter of one of those words, but FOX is, in my mind,
a lot worse than ABC/ESPN, for reasons that I've already mentioned.

As for Dale Jarrett's comments about Jimmie Johnson just running in the
back and finishing in the top ten. If there was ever a case of the "pot
calling the kettle black", this would be the one, since Jarrett always
ran in the back at Daytona and Talladega the last several years of his
career, and waited until late in the race to make his move (as was the
case in his finanl victory, which came at Talladega in the fall of
2005), like Johnson and Jeff Gordon do now. (In last fall's race at
Talladega for example, Gordon and Johnson ran in the back all day, and
then went from 24th and 25th to first and second in just two laps,
proving at Talladega, it's just too easy to make moves, meaning that you
can move from anywhere to anywhere any time you want to, providing the
track isn't clogged with cars.)


  190.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.22.2011 - 12:06 pm
   Rate this comment:      (0)      (0)

Make that post #187 I made the comments I referred to in #189.


  191.   Cooper posted:
  07.22.2011 - 4:41 pm
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Currently, there are some inconsistencies with the Point Standings.
Hopefully some people on here can help me out. Since NASCAR doesn't make
it clear on what drivers are running for which series, these drivers are
currently mixed up on the standings here at Racing-Reference and at
NASCAR.com

NASCAR.com Point Standings
http://www.nascar.com/races/cup/2011/data/standings.html
Racing-Reference.info Point Standings
http://racing-reference.info/yeardet/2011/W

The discrepancies are:
Mike Bliss-According to NASCAR.com he has 0 points. R-R.info has him at 20.
Dennis Setzer-According to NASCAR.com he has 0 points. R-R.info has him
at 6.
Erik Darnell-According to NASCAR.com he has 0 points. R-R.info has him at 5.

Any help would be appreciated. Thank You.


  192.   RCRandPenskeGuy posted:
  07.22.2011 - 11:39 pm
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"One of my big complaints is that most of the old broadcasts would
actually tell you the entire starting grid, not the first third of the
field or whatever they do now. I don't think we need to have the
broadcasters talk to a driver every race."

I 100% agree. If anything, showing the entire starting field is almost a
requirement to me. I just don't think there's any excuse for not showing
the whole thing. They need to go back to showing it the way they used to
rather than showing it above on the ticker.


  193.   cjs3872 posted:
  07.23.2011 - 2:23 pm
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Not only that, but as I mentioned in post #187, the networks carrying
the races should even set aside a 2-4 minute segment for just the
starting grid, as ABC and CBS used to do with its biggest events. The
order in which it's announced doesn't really matter, though I would
prefer it from start to back, but back to front is OK as well.


  194.   Spen posted:
  07.23.2011 - 5:14 pm
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If you want to see the full starting grid, you'll have to watch Brock
Beard's Youtube videos. Honestly, if they want to save money on it, they
could just show his videos during the pre-race. But I can't see that
happening. While I love what Brock's doing, he doesn't have a very good
"announcer's voice".


  195.   Ryan posted:
  07.23.2011 - 11:57 pm
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DSFF, I remember what you're talking about here...

"he blew a tire at Pocono, Bobby dominated Indy, then Dale screwed up on
the first lap at Watkins Glen and that was the end of his title hopes."

I remember the blown tire at Pocono, I believe he was running 2nd to
Dale Jarrett at the time and he ended up finishing 25th (I also believe
this was the race Mayfield blew a tire on the last lap and Rusty passed
him and that was cool because of what Mayfield did to Dale earlier there
that year).

Dale actually had good speed at Indy that year, but he could never get
good track position from the pits because of the lack of cautions and
where it's so hard to pass there. Track position is so important there.
I believe there might have been only one caution that day and Labonte
still has the race record there because of it. Rusty was so close to
winning that race a few times (runner up in '95- should have won if not
for the mishap in pits, '00 to Labonte, and '02 to Elliott).

I remember Dale wrecking out of the chicane at the Glen. Very costly...
The itermediate tracks were tough on him late in the year and he should
have won Bristol in the Spring if it wasn't for Kenny Irwin not holding
onto the brakes after he spun. He had some bad luck at Dover as well,
pitted and the caution came out and put him back a lap to finish 6th.


  196.   Scott B posted:
  07.25.2011 - 6:05 pm
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Brickyard entry list up, all the usual suspects plus:

Terry Labonte in the #23, companion car to the #32... and he will have a
champ's provisional to use.

Scott Speed in the #37 subbing for Tony Raines.

JJ Yeley slides into the Front Row Motorsports #55 that made it's debut
last week with Jeff Green.

Robby Gordon in the #7 and Scott Wimmer listed in the #77.

New Crew Chief for Jeff Burton (Luke Lambert).


  197.   Cooper posted:
  07.25.2011 - 7:59 pm
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Cooper's interesting fact of the race:
--This is the first time since 2008 that the drivers starting on the
pole have won back-to-back. Kyle Busch and Ryan Newman the past two
weeks and Carl Edwards and Jimmie Johnson at Bristol and Fontana in 2008.

You don't have to look this up because I already did.


  198.   Talon64 posted:
  07.26.2011 - 4:26 pm
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The #37 Speed's driving is actually a new team, Max Q Motorsports. But
they've got the #37's owners points (don't know how that worked out).

They'll be running the next 3 races, including Indy, and then more if
sponsorship can be found.


  199.   Scott B posted:
  07.26.2011 - 6:04 pm
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Max Q is Larry Gunselman, he's been "operating" and marketing the #37,
though he's not listed as the official owner. Max Q's website also still
shows the #64 Sprint Cup entry, though it's been dormant since they made
the deal with Front Row for the #37.

Don't know the details, but it's one of those things where points can't
be sold, but somehow they've worked around the rules so effectively they
run the #37's owner points and race attempts anyway.

They're not in the top 35, but they would make the field in case of a
qualifying rainout on attempts.


  200.   Anonymous posted:
  07.27.2011 - 7:21 am
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200!


  201.   Scott B posted:
  07.27.2011 - 1:57 pm
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Career Cup stats for the drivers who've run for Front Row Motorsports so
far in 2011:

David Gilliland 0/169
Travis Kvapil 0/161
Tony Raines 0/161
Jeff Green 0/269
J.J. Yeley 0/128
Chris Cook 0/2 (road racing specialist)
Robert Richardson Jr 0/6 (restrictor plate specialist)

Scott Speed joins the team at 0/76.


  202.   00andJoe posted:
  07.31.2011 - 9:24 pm
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Owner standings by best finishing car:

1. Roush, 781
2. Gibbs, 775
3. Hendrick, 765
4. Childress, 732
5. Penske, 678
6. Stewart-Haas, 653
7. Petty, 622
8. Red Bull, 601
9. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 577
10. Michael Waltrip, 559
11. Furniture Row, 410
12. JTG-Raughtery, 400
13. Front Row, 370
14. Phoenix, 330
15. Baldwin, 276
16. Stoddard, 273
17. Germain, 267
18. Robby Gordon, 238
19. TRG, 231
20. Wood Brothers, 204
21. Gunselman, 132
22. Whitney, 97
23. NEMCO, 70
24. HP, 67
25. Inception, 34
26. Rusty Wallace, 24
27. Leavine, 14
28. Falk, 11
29. K-Automotive, 9


  203.   the_man posted:
  08.04.2011 - 5:36 pm
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David Ragan on a 14th place finish: "I think we had a top 10 to top 15
UPS Ford here today. To get a top 15 at one of our worst tracks is good
for our team. I can't wait to get to Pocono, Michigan and Bristol, we've
got a good season going and I can't wait to get to some of these tracks
where we know we run well at."


  204.   00andJoe posted:
  09.04.2011 - 1:09 pm
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#37 'sponsor': Max Q Motorsports


  205.   00andJoe posted:
  09.04.2011 - 1:10 pm
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Ignore the above - I mis-read which NHIS race this was, sorry!


  206.   Daniel posted:
  05.21.2012 - 3:11 pm
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In using fastest 43: #37 Tony Raines

Out using fastest 43: #7 Scott Wimmer


  207.   Robert Nelson posted:
  07.12.2012 - 7:13 pm
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Marcos Ambrose's only top 10 at Loudoun (New Hampshire) to this day.


  208.   Robert Nelson posted:
  07.12.2012 - 11:19 pm
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F1 points
Kyle Busch 179
Carl Edwards 171
Matt Kenseth 138


  209.   Anonymous posted:
  04.11.2014 - 10:08 pm
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Red Bull Cars

4/83 - Red Bull/Champlain Farms


  210.   Nascar Lead Lap Points posted:
  04.24.2014 - 12:51 pm
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Withdrew
77 Scott Wimmer Dodge Speed Energy Robby Gordon
50 T.J. Bell Toyota Green Smoke Joseph Falk


  211.   Anonymous posted:
  05.30.2020 - 10:04 am
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Final Cup start for Scott Wimmer


  212.   Rich posted:
  12.15.2020 - 10:29 pm
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Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators.
Matt Yocum, Marty Snider, Ralph Sheheen and Chris Neville were the pit
road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay
Czarniak was the studio host.


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