|| *Comments on the 2011 Brickyard 400:* View the most recent comment <#327> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Spen posted: 07.30.2011 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Woohoo, Bayne made it! And I gotta' give a shout-out to T.J. Bell. Not so happy to see Speed in the field, though. 2. cjs3872 posted: 07.30.2011 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interestingly, one car from each make starts in one of the first two rows. David Ragan (Ford) starts from the pole, Kasey Kahne (Toyota) starts second, Jimmie Johnson (Chervolet) starts third, and Kurt busch (Dodge) will start fourth. 3. potatosalad48 posted: 07.30.2011 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did not Qualify: #30 David Stremme Inception Motorsports #38 Travis Kvapil Front Row Motorsports #46 Erik Darnell Whitney Motorsports #55 J.J. Yeley Front Row Motorsports #77 Scott Wimmer Robby Gordon Motorsports Also, Frank Stoddard entered a second car for the Brickyard, #23 driven by Terry Labonte 4. Frank posted: 07.30.2011 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why show the DNQ's, they show that in the stats? 5. 18fan posted: 07.30.2011 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought it would be an advantage for some people to go out early and Jimmie Johnson proved me right and qualified 3rd, but then again Jimmie Johnson defies the odds many times. 6. 00andJoe posted: 07.30.2011 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) -First race of the year for Scott Speed. -First race in which Frank Stoddard's team runs two cars. -Only the third race this year with two ROTY contenders running (Bell was not offically entered in the program at Darlington, I believe). 7. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.30.2011 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a surprise pole for David Ragan, but it's yet another good thing that people can say about his season this year. The rate he's going right now, he's on pace to possibly make this year more memorable than 2008, which I never in a million years thought would be possible after his 2009 and 2010 seasons. How 'bout that Penske power? Both cars will start in the top 5. 8. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 1:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Decided to watch the pre race show. I won't do that again. Between the Brad and Rusty "What The Hell Are We Doing On TV" show, Kyle Busch just not understanding why people don't seem to like his entitled, petulant attitude, and Harvick talking about what it takes to win, something he averages doing less than twice a year, it is gonna be another crappy year of ESPN coverage. Ugh. 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Come on NASCAR, can you ever just let a race play out naturally? Ever? 10. Schroeder51 posted: 07.31.2011 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gotta throw a caution for the highly dangerous object known as...the water bottle! 11. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice burn on JPM by Andy. 12. BLabonte47 posted: 07.31.2011 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great to have Scott Speed back, NASCAR hasn't been the same without him. 13. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) just saw what looked like kasey kahne throwing a water bottle out down the backstretch on lap 72, need a debris caution. Throw the yellow, stop the race, there's a water bottle out of the groove just as green flag pitstops start 14. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awesome to see Ned. 15. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bullshit caution #2. This race is boring, can we let it go green so it will end quicker? 16. Schroeder51 posted: 07.31.2011 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, I wish Ned were still in the booth on a week-to-week basis instead of Rusty. 17. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anybody else not getting any sound? I'm not complaining, but I wonder if it is just me. 18. Rusty posted: 07.31.2011 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Great to have Scott Speed back, NASCAR hasn't been the same without him." Yeah, I was actually getting used to having a field full of drivers who don't have purses. 19. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth being aggressive in a good way which is unusual for him. Let's see how it works for him. 20. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #2 car is a 15th to 20th place car all day, gets out front and checks out. Unbelievable. Aero is king. Can Paul Wolfe get his 2nd win of the year? 21. Schroeder51 posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go Paul Menard! 22. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Ugh 23. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) The significance of winning this race just went WAY down. I wish my daddy was a billionaire. 24. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about Paul Menard and David Ragan as the Chase wildcards! Woo! 25. Anonymous85 posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF take a chill pill a let the kid enjoy his victory 26. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats Paul Menard! An overdue and deserved first career win, and I suspect it won't be the last. 27. Schroeder51 posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Chalk another one up for the rich kids. 28. KurtBusch22Fan posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First time someone won their first race at the Brickyard 400. 29. Silence Dogood posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No matter what anyone says, Menard earned this victory. The significance of winning the Brickyard did not go down at all, as a matter of fact it, it went up for me. It's always a deserved win if you work hard, run well, play good strategy, and put yourself in the right position to win at the end of the race. That is exactly what Menard did today, congratulations is greatly deserved! 30. BON GORDON posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Paul Menard. I don't care if his dad is rich. I wish I had rich parents. I would be out there on the race track today. What a drive by Jeff Gordon to finish second! He's been doing these crazy drives at the end all season. REFUSE TO LOSE FOR Gordon. By far his best run at Indy since 2004 when he won. I figured the winner would be Jeff Gordon, Matt Kenseth, Jimmie Johnson, or Kasey Kahne. But of course crazy strategies at the end kinda hindered that from happening. 31. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, great run for Regan Smith coming home third. Too bad Bayne and Cassill couldn't have stretched their fuel a bit longer! 32. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just for the record, I have no problem with Paul personally. He is a good guy. 33. RLB posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First runner-up at Indy for Gordon. 34. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) One hit-wonder. Two NASCAR wins, two flukes. I agree with both of your comments, DSFF. It is sick. A stickwad winning a race that takes not only guts, but skill, unlike Daytona where anyone can win; to win this, you are either good, or like today, a fluke. 35. Sean posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm with DSFF completely. I like him, but it's hard to care about what happens when anything can happens. Basically, now with Cope/M. Waltrip/Bayne winning at Daytona, Mears winning the 600, Smith winning the Southern 500, and Menard winning here, it's hard to take any of the traditional marquee races seriously to the point that there almost aren't any anymore... 36. Sean posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) can happen* 37. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Geez, way to be happy for the guy people. 38. Lugnut posted: 07.31.2011 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell yeah, way to go paul! 39. DaleJrFan20 posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh boo hoo, someone used the strategy card and got their first win at the Brickyard. He totally didn't deserve it cause he played strategy! This race means nothing to me from now on! Park the wahmbulance somewhere else and let him enjoy his win. 40. Ryan posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richard Childress becomes the only owner with three different drivers to win the Brickyard 400 (1995 with Dale, 2003 with Harvick, and now 2011 with Menard, he has this every 8 year thing going). This also makes the fourth time this year we have had first time winners (Bayne and Ragan at Daytona, Smith at Darlington, and now Menard at Indy). Jeff Gordon trying to run down Menard reminded me of Mears trying to run down Johncock in '82 because he was taking off a second a lap, another lap Gordon might have gotten to him. If only that moron Mike Bliss would move out of the way. I can't stand when idiots like him get around the leaders at the end of a big race and try to screw things up. Just move out of the way you have NO chance of winning! Rick Mast was in the way of the 1998 Daytona 500. I mean he really could have SCREWED things up and then Joe Nemechek at Homestead in 2004 at the end of that race with the title on the line. I think Paul Menard may be the only driver that has won a race with his own name/business sponsoring him in the modern era. And I really hope people don't try to make this out to be a fuel mileage race. Maybe a fuel strategy race because everyone had a chance to pit when the last caution came out and the drivers and teams KNEW that they would have to stop one more time if they DIDN'T pit and was afraid to give up track position and they KNEW other drivers WOULD pit because and go for the win in that regard. Everyone had the chance to pit on the last stop. Congrats to Menard on winning his first race at Indianapolis on his own turf. 41. Ryan posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm with DSFF completely. I like him, but it's hard to care about what happens when anything can happens. Basically, now with Cope/M. Waltrip/Bayne winning at Daytona, Mears winning the 600, Smith winning the Southern 500, and Menard winning here, it's hard to take any of the traditional marquee races seriously to the point that there almost aren't any anymore... " This is a result of the closeness of the competition now with all the sponsors and templates. To get sponsors you have to be successful and Nascar knows if they keep the competition close that will provide for more winners and success which provides more sponsors and of course the end result of that is what it's all about any more is money. Case in point look at today's winner. Why does he have his ride? His dad brought sponsorship with him to Childress(Not taking anything away from Paul because he ran a smart race and did what he had to do, but we know he wouldn't be there if it wasn't for his dad and money). More guys have finished on the lead lap more than ever the last decade. Another thing is the drivers are better overall now than it used to be. Back in the day you had 5-10 drivers if that that could win on a given day. And you had two-three great and Hall of Fame drivers over a decade, now you have about 25-30 drivers that could win on a given day. 42. TimmyQuivy posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Having an upset winner does not tarnish the history of marquee races. There are plenty of other years where big winners win the big races but what would the history and perception of the NCAA Tournament if the #1 and #2 seeds won every year? What would the Super Bowl be without the 2008 Giants beating the undefeated Patriots or the wild card winners? Having your occasional upset, unexpected winner only adds to the prestige of these sort of events. It shows how truly competitive the sport is and just how much these races make /everyone/ rise to the occasion to try to win, not just the usual suspects. Besides, back in 1994, some guy named Jeff Gordon won for just the second time in his career here, something back then I'm sure a lot of people felt was a fluke until 1995 rolled around. Overall, this was the best Brickyard 400 in recent memory. There was the dreaded aero push in the battle for the lead, but the racing from front to back did allow for significant passing and thrilling restarts. And I'm always a sucker for strategy also dicing up the end. All around a very good race. 43. F1V1 posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Not a surprise to see ignorant Dale Sr. fans being complete idiots and talking like they know something. For those who were ACTUALLY WATCHING THE f**kING RACE, you would have seen that Paul Menard was doing a great job and was in contention the entire time. By the way, the Brickyard is always the most boring race of the year for motorsports in general, so those of you saying Menard's win brought down it's credibility obviously don't have a clue what you're talking about. Yes Menard got into racing on his daddy's money, but he's progressed a lot since he first started and it all culminated with his win today. Congrats Paul. 44. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it took 18 years, but the Brickyard 400 finally has it's first real upset winner in Paul Menard, but it couldn't come with a better storyline. Paul's father, John, had been tring to win at Indy for many years, and now his son Paul gets his family that win in the Brickyard 400. John Menard has had so many trials and tribulations at Indy. Among those are the fact that, in 1992, in what unfortunately was a sign of things to come, three-time F1 Champion Nelson Piquet has his legs crushed in a crash in turn four. He was replaced by the legendary Al Unser, who drove all the way to third place at the end. Tom sneva and Gary Bettenhausen also crashed in that race, with Sneva suffering minor foot injuries in his final race. In 1990, Jim Crawford had one of the scariest crashes in memory when his car, after spinning, lept some 20 feet off the ground. Then, of course there's the tragic story of Scott Brayton, who won the Indy pole in both 1995 and '96 in John Menard's cars, but lost his life in a practice crash the Friday before the second weekend of time trials. He was replaced by Danny Ongais, who finished eighth. Tony Stewart and Greg Ray won championships driving for John Menard, and can anyone forget 1999, when Robby Gordon ran out of fuel three miles from the finish while leading, also driving for Menard, so for the Menard family, this day has been many years in the making. Other facts from this race: Jeff Gordon, who finished second in this race for the first time (hard to believe, isn't it?), ties Dale Earnhardt, Sr. for fourth all-time and tops in the modern-era with his 281st top five finish, meaning his next top five, like his next win, will set a new modern record. Paul Menard became the first driver ever to score his first win in this event, which is fitting, considering what's happened this year, with Trevor Bayne (Daytona 500), Regan Smith (Southern 500), David Ragan (Firecracker 400), and now Menard winning the Brickyard 400, all for their first wins. And let's not forget Dan Wheldon becoming the only driver ever to win the Indianapolis 500 by leading only trhe final lap in his only race of the season. The wood Brothers' record remains perfect. They have qualified for all 18 Brickyard 400s, but have never led any of them at any point. They have also not scored a finish in this race better than tenth, and that was with Morgan Shepherd in each of the race's first two runnings. That was the last time they were truly competitve on a regular basis. Shepherd, Michael Waltrip, Elliott Sadler, Ricky Rudd, Ken Schrader, Bill Elliott, and now Trevor Bayne have driven for them in this race, and yet none of them have ever led it driving the #21 car. Elliott and Rudd are, of course, past winners of this event, while Waltrip (twice), Elliott (twice), and Bayne (in the #21 car) have all won the Daytona 500. The crowd, which I thought would only be about 70,000-80,000 surprised me, as it was about what it was last year, so that was a very pleasant surprise. And for those that say the value of winning this race just went down, I say nonsense. remember, this is the first time in the 18 runnings that a driver scored his first victory in this event, but it's not like Menard hand't run well previously. In fact, in the first six weeks of the season, he was Richard Childress' best performer. And his 21 laps led is more than twice as many as Kevin Harvick led in his three victories this year, combined. And, by the way, speaking of Richard Childress, he became the first car owner to win the Brickyard 400 with three different drivers, as he seems to be becoming for this race what the Wood Brothers are for the Daytona 500. they've won that event five times, but never twice with the same driver. Childress' other Brickyard winners are, of course, Dale Earnhardt, Sr. (1995) and Kevin Harvick (2003). Oddly, Childress' three victories in this event have all come eight years apart. And Richard "Slugger" Labbe became one of the very few crew chiefs to have won both this race and the Daytona 500, joining Ray Evernham and Todd Parrott, the only two to win both twice, Jimmy Makar, Chad Knaus, and Kevin "Bono" Manion, that I know of. Recently released RCR crew chief Todd Berrier may also have won both with Kevin Harvick, though I'm not sure about that. 45. BON GORDON posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As much as I wanted Jeff Gordon to win I am happy to see Paul Menard win. He may of not had the best car but he had the best strategy and held off a 4-time Champion to win. I also agree with post 39 in that this was the best Brickyard 400 in a long time. I would put this race in the Top 5 best Brickyards yet. 46. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Similar to Timothy Peters on Friday night, a few drivers cashed in on a spin to get a great finish. Landon Cassill nearly got his first Top 10 out of his own spin, but faded late. Regan Smith ran through the grass avoiding Cassill, but got all of it off his splitter and ran all the way to the end to finish 3rd. Kasey Kahne wasn't as lucky, as he spun in the grass, and after dominating the first quarter of the race he could only rebound to finish 18th. 47. Nick posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me, it sounds like some of you are just mad that one of the "big names" did not win today. Either that, or you're mad that Paul Menard was/is considered a pay driver earlier in his career. Small names winning the big races are what make big names. How do you think fans felt back in 1979 when "that new kid" Dale Earnhardt took his first checkered flag at Bristol? Or back in 1994 when "some open-wheeler" Jeff Gordon took his first win at the prestigious Coca-Cola 600? Or when he followed up with the first inaugural Brickyard 400? How about in 2002 when "that guy who couldn't find the brake pedal at the Glen" Jimmie Johnson almost won the championship as a rookie? It's good to have the lesser-known winning these races because it lays the foundation for NASCAR's future. To those of you mad that Paul Menard paved his entry into NASCAR with money: this is absolutely 100% true; However, at least he has shown speed, talent, and wins. I'll admit, he used to be quite erratic and slow, but over time he has really made a name for himself. He is perhaps the only pay-driver in in history (or a long time, at least) that has actually earned his keep in the sport. This win seals the deal for him and hopefully, in time, will eliminate all doubt of his talent. 48. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #37 sponsor: Green Stuff Absorbent 49. Foyt14 posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The significance of winning this race just went WAY down. I wish my daddy was a billionaire." You just don't get it. This track makes the drivers, the drivers don't make the race. A wise man named AJ Foyt once said that, and it holds true today. The Speedway decides who is worthy of winning, and she always has her reasons. This track has put the Menard family through decades of heartbreak, and they kept coming back, and trying again and again. They never blamed the track, they never blamed the race, they just showed up and kept working hard. And Indy, as fickle as she sometimes seems, finally deemed them worthy of standing in victory lane. Paul Menard earned this win. You don't luck into an Indy win. It has never happened, and it will never happen. You win there through determination, skill, and strategy. Your crew is as important as your talent in the car. 42 other drivers couldn't do what Paul Menard did today, and he won at the Brickyard. And he did it while holding off a legend in Jeff Gordon. The Speedway threw her ultimate weapon at him to see if he'd crack and he didn't. As an Indianapolis resident who has seen the last 28 Indy 500's and every single Brickyard 400 in person, I have no problem with Paul Menard's name on that trophy. I have no problem with him kissing the sacred bricks. Want to know why? Because the Speedway said it was alright, and she's never been wrong. 50. murb posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul was up front for a lot of the day, so it wasn't like this was a fluke. You have to admit he did a hell of a job there at the end holding off Jeff. And not to mention being able to race Jamie like that and conserve fuel all at the same time. So I feel like it was well deserved for him. 51. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's especially amusing to hear "Menard winning cheapens the race" when Harvick, who "averages less than two wins a year", didn't "cheapen" the race by winning (and what about Jamie Mac? Hmm?). 52. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For those that feel that Menard's win has tarnished the legacy of this event, lets go back to the very first Brickyard 400 in 1994. Jeff Gordon won it for his second career win, and the top ten also featured many legendary names. You had Bill Elliott (third), who drove for Junior Johnson, Rusty wallace (fourth), who drove for Roger Penske, Dale Earnhardt, Sr. (fifth), Darrell Waltrip (sixth), Ken Schrader (seventh), while not a racing legend, is one of the most respected drivers ever to come along, Michael Waltrip, who would go on to win two Daytona 500s, finished eighth, Todd Bodine, who raced for Butch Mock, who had employed drivers such as Neil Bonnett previously, and is a two-time Truck Series champion, was ninth, and Morgan Shepherd finished tenth driving for the Wood Brothers. But does any one know who actually finished second in that race? It was Brett Bodine, currently the pace car driver, who was second driving for another racing icon, Kenny Bernstein. And let's not forget that among the other drivers in that race were the all-time icon, A.J. Foyt, 1985 Indy winner Danny Sullvan, who served as a commentator for that race two years later, Geoff Brabham, son of three-time F1 champion Jack Brabham, the same Jack Brabham that drove the first modern rear-engine car in the Indianapolis 500 in 1961, John Andretti, who had just moved to NASCAR, was representing the great Indy families in that event. And four-time Indy 500 starter Cale Yarborough (1966-'67, '71-'72) had a car in that race with driver Jeremy Mayfield, and the car owned by two-time Indy 500 starter Bobby Allison (1973, '75) failed to qualify for that race with driver Tim Steele. Among the other drivers that failed to qualify for that first Brickyard race were Joe ruttman, younger brother of 1952 Indy winner Troy Ruttman, Gary Bettenhausen, who had raced both at Indy and Daytona in the late 1960s, and had nearly won the 1972 Indy race with Roger Penske, Loy Allen, Jr., who won the pole for that year's Daytona 500, Charlie Glotzbach, who came with a half lap of winning the 1969 Daytona 500, and Hershel McGriff, who actually drove in the very first Southern 500 in 1950 (finishing ninth), and had finished fifth in the 1973 Daytona 500 in a second Petty Enterprises car. 53. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) EPIC race with an awesome winner. 2011 has rocked for NASCAR. Amazing stories. If you didn't enjoy that race today then quit watching the sport. 54. KurtBusch22Fan posted: 07.31.2011 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "42 other drivers couldn't do what Paul Menard did today, and he won at the Brickyard." It's technically 36 since 37th on down start-and-parked: Michael McDowell, Joe Nemechek, Scott Speed, Mike Skinner, Terry Labonte, T.J. Bell, and Robby Gordon. 55. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If Menard "tarnishes" the Brickyard 400 legacy then does this mean Bayne tarnished the 500's legacy? Some of you turds make me laugh. 56. 1995z71 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another great run for Regan Smith! Too bad Trevor Bayne needed to pit for fuel with like 8 to go. 57. Indyfan posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am a diehard fan of this track and its history, and so I never mind when a driver that truly appreciates the track, and grew up idolizing its heroes like I did, wins a race there. And because this track means so much to drivers, I don't really run into many problems. I'd say the most disrespectful winner was Montoya in 2000, but over time he's obviously grown fond of the track even as it has begun to exact its revenge on him for his cavalier attitude as an Indycar driver. The track is forcing respect out of him whether he likes it or not. It has a way of doing that. The Menard family deserves this win. If you believe in the ghosts of Indy, you know that they sometimes put you through hell, and the reasons aren't always obvious. But like Stewart has learned, and Menard has learned, and the Andretti family and JR Hildebrand will someday learn, when your day of redemption finally comes it's all the more sweet. And I guarantee those bricks will never taste sweeter than on that day. And to those who want to declare this race dead just because of a few speedbumps in attendance, or tire issues, or "boring" racing, take note. You can't write off the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. The attendance today is still bigger than all but a few races in the season, and I thought the race day was wonderful. Strategy and storylines abound. That tough old broad has lasted through world wars, depressions, recessions, and countless tragedies. It will take more than some shredded tires in one race in 2008 to kill her off. Just when you think she's run her last race, she'll rise up like a phoenix. She will endure, because the drivers desperately want to stand in her victory lane, and that desire is never going to die. 58. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, if Bayne didn't have to pit, he would probably have scored the Wood Brothers' best finish at the Brickyard, as they've never been better than tenth, and those finishes took place in the event's first two runnings in 1994-'95 with Morgan Shepherd driving, the last time the team was really competitve on a consistent basis. 59. joey2448 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a great finish today, I love these kinds of finishes. I picked Jeff Gordon to win, and he nearly did, closing more than a second a lap! So close! I expected Paul would win a race eventually, just didn't think it would be the brickyard. This race fits with the season-long pattern of upset/first time winners in the marquee events. Also, I don't think this dulls the significance of the crown jewel races. It ain't easy winning any NASCAR race. 60. Cooper posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't expect people to be mad about this one. Congratulations to Paul Menard and his fans. They stuck with him through thick and thin and they get to enjoy the spoils of victory. Jeff Gordon looks tenacious out there. Absolutely Flay Flyin' in that Hotrod today. Really interesting strategies out there today. Not sure what some of the crew chiefs were thinking today. There computers must be lying to them. JPM took 2 tires three times in a row to finish the race. Just dumbfounded about that one. Gimmick races like the Brickyard 400 are more about the spectacle then the racing, so it's an event that will likely have unlikely winners. And it did today. 61. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the first time since NASCAR started racing here in 1994, we have a first time winner at The Brickyard. It's also the first time that a driver without a significant amount of success in the sport has won this race. Even last year's winner (Jamie Mac) has 6 career wins and a lot of other races where he at least ran well enough to win. Even if Paul didn't win the race, he still had a top 10 car so he probably would have finished there at the very least. Kind of similar to Brad's Kansas win earlier this year. I've never really liked Menard, but I have no problem acknowledging this win. As far as I'm concerned, if you run the race's full distance and take the checkered flag before anyone else, you're a legitimate winner. Regan Smith scores his second career top 5 to go along with his win at Darlington, though people like myself still like to credit him with 3. 62. Smokefan05 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) People have to complain about something and anything. Geez, pathetic. -_- Paul wins #2 of his carrer, (yes #2, won at Talladega in 2008 not Tony Stewert or Regan Smith). Jeff drove like a champion today. "It's especially amusing to hear "Menard winning cheapens the race" when Harvick, who "averages less than two wins a year", didn't "cheapen" the race by winning (and what about Jamie Mac? Hmm?)." hypocrisy, NASCAR fans are known for it. It must be very hard for people to understand this: if you don't like it, go watch something else. It isn't rocket science. 63. Rusty posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski's Chase hopes may have gone out the window in this one. Even though he got a 9th place finish, Paul Menard won and he either has to A)Win another race B)Finish ahead of either Menard and Ragan in points by Richmond Don't see it happening. Kurt Busch had a really good car, but he slapped the wall on lap 1 and then got his car tore up in the Cassill wreck. He's lucky to finish 21st, this was also the first race since Dover that Kurt didn't lead in. 64. beau posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) now that leaves allmendinger on the needs-to-win list. 65. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A driver who runs sort of eh all doesn't DESERVE the win, but that doesn't mean he didn't EARN it. Menard EARNED it even if he was in a seventh place car at best. Yes, Jamie Mac's win does cheapen the race a bit, BUT he has won other major races. Harvick has 17 wins; that doesn't cheapen it. I call the list of drivers with 17-21 wins the "deadhole" like in cribbage because many drivers got there, and despite longevity, didn't get out, like peghole #120. Landon Cassill in 20th was the first driver without a win. 66. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, how's the Brickyard 400 a gimmick race? You mention that JPM took two tires on his last three stops to finish the race, but what's so unusual about that? I remember Dale Earnhardt, Sr. not changing left sides tires even once until after the 1998 Brickyard race was more than half-over, just to improve track position, and that thinking eventually got him the lead in that race late when his team did a third two-tire pit stop, if I recall correctly. And at Loudon, Ryan Newman won, and a large part of that victory was the fact that his left side tires were only changed once during the entire race. And when Michael Waltrip won the 2003 Daytona 500, a big part of that victory was the decision by his crew chief, Richard "Slugger" Labbe, today's winning crew chief, that they would change two tires on every pit stop, even alternating between changing right side tires and left side tires, but never change all four on the same pit stop. So strategy has always been a part of racing, but it just has to work out perfectly. After all, I don't think anyone has ever complained about Richard Petty's final Daytona 500 win in 1981, and that came due to pit strategy, as his team went with a fuel-only pit stop with 24 laps remaining, when everyone else changed right side tires. And let's not forget that Jeff Gordon's very first Cup victory was also a product of pit strategy, when his crew chief Ray Evernham decided to change just right side tires, when his competitors eaach took on four, and that was during the last tire war, and after that stop, Gordon's was the fastest car on the track. So when you make strategy calls, you just have to hope that it goes right. Also, even though Jimmie Johnson is higher in the point standings, is anyone beginning to think that Jeff Gordon is Hendrick Motorsports' best chance at a sixth consecutive title this year, as he continues to drive forward, while Johnson and his team continue to fall on their collective faces. This time, it was an incorrect strategy call, combined with Johnson running into Brian Vickers leaving the pits that ruined his day. Johnson's pit stops this year have been, for some reason, a comedy of errors, and nobody has been immune to that, not even johnson or chad Knaus, his future Hall of Fame crew chief. Remember, if not for a few inches at Talladega, Johnson would be winless this year, and threatening to be the first reigning champion to go winless the following season since, of all people, Dale Earnhardt, Sr. did so in 1981. Before that, you'd have to go back to 1974 when Benny Parsons, as reigning champion, went winless. And we all know how that streak ended, with that bizarre Daytona win in 1975 when nobody thought he'd even finish the race, let alone win it. 67. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) dont know about anyone else, but i feel disgusted by this race. and not just about who won, but so many others. man i miss the old days.. 68. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That, SmokeFan05, is why there are people like me that often like to back up what I'm saying with facts and statistics, because there are many uninformed people that post here. Not only do I want to post my opinions, which are sometimes strong, but I also want to give those that are uninformed the facts, not just as I see them, but also as the stats book states them, to arm those that don't know much about the sport, but would like to, about the facts and history of the sport. After all, as part of the slogan for the old game show "The Joker's Wild" says, "knowledge is king". And only by knowing things can you teach others that knowledge and pass it on. 69. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My point, which I made too harshly, I admit, was that the Brickyard was the one venue that never produced a winner that could really be called a surprise. I worded it poorly, it came out as more of an attack on Paul himself which I regret. But even Jamie's win last year came during his career year in which he already won the Daytona 500 and would go on to win Charlotte. Gordons' inaugural win was just his 2nd, but it was just his second year and it was obvious he had a great career ahead of him. And Harvick had been considered a champion in waiting since his rookie year even though his career hasn't panned out quite as expected. I just feel like we lost a bit of that now. But congrats to Paul. It has been a year of upsets at the crown jewels. 70. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the green flag racing at indy today was pretty good, a little bit softer tire would help, i just wish 2011 wasn't like 2003, every other race decided on fuel mileage, i'd like to see 4 fresh tires as more of a benifit, i also realize the aero-push at indy is worse then any other track, i'm happy for paul menard but i doubt he'll be winning any more sprint cup races soon 71. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I think we clearly have JJ, Gordon, and Kenseth as our championship favorites. I still have Jj as my top pick, but it is looking more and more like Gordon. 72. LittleAl posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, Jamie Mac's win does cheapen the race a bit, BUT he has won other major races. Harvick has 17 wins; that doesn't cheapen it. I call the list of drivers with 17-21 wins the "deadhole" like in cribbage because many drivers got there, and despite longevity, didn't get out, like peghole #120. Landon Cassill in 20th was the first driver without a win." Who's to say Menard won't win more races? I think he has another 3 or 4 wins in him over the next 5-6 years. But regardless of his career success, this track makes a driver, the drivers don't make this track. He has an Indy win, and like or not, that's something he can hang his hat on for the rest of his life. Would you have said JR Hildebrand winning the Indy 500 would have cheapened that race? You can't cheapen that race, because it's not just about the prestige of the drivers who have won. The little guys, the underdogs, the upsets, the guys that only won once in their career but it was when they put it all together one day at Indy, that's just part of the track's mystique. It's about a guy like Paul Menard being able to write his name down alongside Foyt, Unser, Mears, and Gordon, even if it's just this one time. Paul Menard just drove himself into Indy lore with that upset, and 50 years or 100 years later as people browse through history books of Indianapolis Motor Speedway, the story of Paul Menard and the Menard family at this track is yet another in a long line of fascinating upsets and tales of redemption, that you read in between grand tales of Foyt and Andretti, and Gordon and Stewart. 73. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Harvick has 17 wins; that doesn't cheapen it." When Harvick won the Brickyard 400, he had three prior wins. Jeff Gordon won the inagural event with -one- prior win. Both have gone on to win a few more... So to declare that Menard winning his first race here immediately cheapens the event while giving others passes at the cheapening because of how many wins they've had -since- winning at Indy is hypocritical. If, ten (or even five) years from now Menard is still a one-win wonder and he opened the floodgates for a bunch of other one- or two-win drivers to score in the 400, -then- we can say he cheapened it. Right now, though, he's on top of the biggest stage in racing at the second most famous racetrack in the world (Monoco would be first) and he earned every bit of it through years of actual -driving- (as opposed to, say, John Wes Townley who did indeed have "lots of dollars but no sense"). *raises a glass to the Menards* To the victor, the spoils! 74. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, I believe this is the first victory by a car #27 in a Cup race since Jimmy Spencer's July 1994 win at Talladega. How long ago was that? He was driving for Junior Johnson in that race. Of course, Junior ran that number himself for many years and even won the 1960 Daytona 500 with it. Other drivers to win in car #27 include Cale Yarborough, Benny Parsons, Tim Richmond, and, of course Rusty Wallace, who carried it to the 1989 NASCAR Championship. 1970 Indianapolis 500 Rookie of the Year Donnie Allison also scored half his NASCAR wins in car #27, driving for Banjo Matthews. Besides the 2011 Brickyard 400, other major victories for car #27 include both the Firecracker 400 and World 600 in 1970 with Donnie Allison, the 1980 world 600 and the final two races at the Ontario Motor Speedway, which was a carbon-copy of Indy, with Benny Parsons, the 1981 Firecracker 400 and the 1982 Southern 500 with Cale Yarborough, the 1990 Coca-Cola 600 with Rusty wallace, the only crown jewel victory in Wallace's career, and the 1994 Firecracker 400 with Jimmy Spencer. It's ironic that the 1970, '80, and '90 Coca-Cola/World 600s were all won by car #27. Besides Menard, the other drivers to score their first victory in car #27 were Wallace, Allison, Spencer, and Jimmy Florian, who scored the number's first victory in 1950, in the series' 15th-ever race. Ironically, the the top two finishers today drove the car numbers that finished both first and last in the first Brickyard 400 in 1994. We know that Jeff Gordon, driving the same #24 he does now, won that race, but Jimmy Spencer, who won both restrictor plate races in July driving the #27 car, crashed early in that first Brickyard 400 and finished last. 75. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF - I think I'd have to agree with you, although I'd actually put JJ fourth behind Carl in the championship probability rating. Johnson just keeps having "stuff" happen too often in my view. Last year he basically backed into the championship because his competition gave it to him on a platter; the odds of that happening again are mighty slim... I'm going to predict that the top 10 as we have them now is going to be the Chase field, bar one: Junior. My guess on who will sneak in to replace him? Kahne. On the wildcards, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Greg Biffle is going to win a race and get in on a wildcard along with either Menard or Ragan, which one of those getting in depending on if the 6 can rebuild the momentum they just lost. 76. potatosalad48 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard get his 1st win, much to my own surprise. He used strategy to his advantage vto win, but it is a legitimate win despite what others may say. I thought Gordon could've gotten around him, but it vwasn't meant to be. Johnson's pit crew was better today, but strategy killed them at the end, as well as the contact with Vickers. 77. Bronco posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A very unexpected winner for sure, but a deserving one nonetheless. Paul did a masterful job of giving up the lead to McMurray, drafting behind him, then working his way around lapped traffic and not pulling a JR Hildebrand at the end. The four first time winners of this season have all scored their wins in marquee events. A major plus to Paul getting a win is that it puts one more driver between Ragan or Keselowski making the chase. Paul finally earning a Cup win shows how having the right crew chief and team can turn a driver from running 28th ever weekend into a winner. "The significance of winning this race just went WAY down. I wish my daddy was a billionaire." Save it. If your favorite Brad had won you would have wet yourself and would have come here and talked about how you were so proud of him and about how much he deserved to win, blah blah. 78. potatosalad48 posted: 07.31.2011 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *wasn't 79. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "now that leaves allmendinger on the needs-to-win list." Forgot about Ambrose already? Paul Menard needs 1 Camping World Truck Series win to add his name to the list of "triple threat" winners in all 3 top divisions in NASCAR. 80. Jon posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) disagree that this is the first "upset" winner in 400 history. ricky rudd was an owner/driver without a ton of luck in 97 and he won. definitely more of an "upset" to me than a guy who has been running ok all year in some great equipment. first time win? yes. upset? a little. not nearly as big an upset as rudd IMO. how was the race? i missed the first 152 laps. woke up just in time for the best part i guess! 81. murb posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as championship favorites go, I think Carl's done. It seems more and more likely that he is going to JGR next year. So there's no way he wins it this year if he is in a lame duck situation... By the way, I'm sort of new to the site, if any of you are wondering who the hell I am, haha 82. Jon posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) oh, and im far too lazy to look through a hundred indy 500 results... can anyone confirm that this is the first time a driver earns his first victory at indy? not just in the 400 but including the 500. i know no one did it in F1, and don't care about indy lights and don't include motoGP in this discussion. 83. 12345Dude posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't watch the race. It sounded like it was a good race. I still which they would race IRP in the cup series. But I'll be lucky if they race there at all next year. Bill France only cares about the money. I thought that Jeff Gordon was going to stay at 4 titles. I figured he would race 5 more years. Average 2 wins a season, and finish in the top 5 in standings most of the years. He gave up so many races last year, where he led the most laps in a race. And faded late. And the lack of winning the past few years. I just figured he was so happy with his wife, and his kids. He was happy with his place in nascar history. I didn't think he had the aggression or passion to win another title. I was wrong. I'm also shocked Jimmie did so bad. I thought he would win. Also jeez, people will complain about anything. David Ragan,Regan Smith, Trevor Bayne, and Paul Menard winning. Back in 99-03 when "anyone could win a race" and when the competition was so close. People said it was amazing to see all the different winners. Now where complaining about it. Happy to see Paul Menard win. And thanks for the history cjs. Happy to see John Menard finally win it. With his own son driving. 84. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As far as championship favorites go, I think Carl's done. It seems more and more likely that he is going to JGR next year. So there's no way he wins it this year if he is in a lame duck situation..." I don't see Carl as a serious title threat either, not only because of this but he's gone on a cold streak lately. At first I thought, "No way this happens, Carl will totally re-sign with Roush". But now there are more signs that point to him possibly leaving, such as the Home Depot courting Carl rumor. I'm not saying I think it will happen, but I'd more so expect it than not if it did. 85. LittleAl posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "oh, and im far too lazy to look through a hundred indy 500 results... can anyone confirm that this is the first time a driver earns his first victory at indy? not just in the 400 but including the 500. i know no one did it in F1, and don't care about indy lights and don't include motoGP in this discussion. " Well what do you mean by "first victory"? Like, their first victory in the series for which they are most known? Or just their first major league open wheel or stock car victory period? Either way, I'm positive that its not. Buddy Lazier won the 1996 Indy 500 and it was his first major open wheel victory. Juan Montoya was a CART driver, but his first and only Indycar series start was an Indy 500 victory. Buddy Rice won his first major open wheel victory at Indy. Those are just the recent ones off the top of my head. I'm sure if you went through the history you'd find many more, but often you had guys that maybe didn't run an entire USAC season, or were known for other racing series coming into to compete at Indy, so it's hard to answer that question straight on. Let's just go with what we know, Paul Menard is the first stock car driver to earn his first major stock car victory at Indy. 86. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jon, a first career win in the Indianapolis 500 has happened many times over the years. And although you are right about Ricky Rudd's Brickyard victory in 1997 being somewhat of an upset, remember that he ran with the leaders most of the race, and when the leaders pitted and he didn't, all he had to do was beat Bobby Labonte to win the race. And remember that Ricky had actually won earlier that year at Dover in tha track's final 500-mile race in June. Rudd was always one of those drivers that did better at the flatter tracks, as well as the tougher tracks, as his four wins at Dover easily prove. Rudd was a lot like Benny Parsons and the Labonte brothers, as he was a driver you could trsut to be there at the finish of a race. In fact, for a large part of the last decade, Rudd and Terry Labonte were the top two among active drivers in career top ten finishes. But 1997 was the 15th consecutive year that Rudd had won a race in the Cup series, a streak he would continue for one more year. Rudd, to this day, is the only owner-driver ever to win the Brickyard 400. And 12345Dude, thanks for the compliment, and you are definately welcome. I always try to inform those that look and/or post here. But thanks, again for the compliment. 87. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jon: I'll list them by series. F1: Johnnie Parsons, Lee Wallard, Troy Ruttman, Bill Vukovich, Bob Sweikert, Pat Flaherty, Sam Hanks, Jimmy Bryan, Rodger Ward, Jim Rathmann USAC: Sam Hanks, Jimmy Clark, Graham Hill CART: Arie Luyendyk IndyCar: Buddy Lazier, Juan Pablo Montoya, Helio Castroneves, Buddy Rice NASCAR: Paul Menard I don't know any first career wins before 1956 because Racing-Reference doesn't have the results from the old AAA days. 88. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude: The difference between 1999-2003 and now is that most of this years upsets were also flukes. Nemechek's wins in 01 and 03 involved absolute domination. In 99, John Andretti stormed from a lap down and passed the believed dominant car of Jeff Burton to take the lead with 4 to go without a yellow. In 00, Jerry Nadeau led over 150 laps for his only win. In 01, Robby Gordon bumped and runned Jeff Gordon to win at Loudon. 89. Sean posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "not nearly as big an upset as rudd IMO." Rudd had already won that year at Dover and was sitting at the top ten in points entering that race (though he fell out with a dismal ending). His win was considerably less surprising to me. 90. Eric posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The attendance is big shock considering the reports I read in May. I don't really think Paul Menard's win tarnished anything at the track. I know the history of the track very well since I followed the Indy 500 since the 1980's and followed Nascar since the 1993 Daytona 500. IMS is a track from the Nascar side that upsets happen due to the fact it is a very hard too pass for the lead due to "aero push for stock cars. 91. Jon posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) they do have indy 500 results going that far back. i assumed that thing i read was wrong, but was sure it was the first to win their first ever in the 400. btw, those "f1" races you listed... were the indy 500, which while it counted for f1 points, i don't think anyone really considers them "f1 races." technically they counted, but only 1 or 2 F1 regulars ever even made the trip. was more interested in the USAC/CART/IRL results here as well as pre-USAC days, which was where i expected more first time winners. also, let's discount the "first time victories" of juan pablo montoya in the IRL (due to his winning multiple races/a title in CART prior to that, and i think most considered CART the more skilled series at that point in time) and helio is in the same boat, too. buddy lazier is technically correct, but i mean... who gives a shit about the 500 from '96 until like '00 or so. it was run by a bunch of 2nd teir indycar drivers IMO. buddy rice and arie count tho. 92. Jon posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) also nicorosburgfan... here are the indy 500 results. http://racing-reference.info/indy500.htm forgot rudd was winning races that year and in top 10, but either way, an owner/driver winner to me is more "shocking" in a race like the 400 than a guy in an RCR car. no matter who is in that car... ok, if buckshot jones was in the RCR car and won, i'd be shocked. 93. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd actually argue that Jeff Gordon winning the 1994 race was a bigger upset then this. Jeff wasn't even the "Wonder Boy" yet then, was just one year removed from rookiedom, and got a huge stroke of luck when Ernie blew that tire... Back to this year: what the heck happened to Landon Cassill and Mark Martin? I thought at first Landon had to have pitted but looking at the ticker on replay it looks like he simply slid 10 spots in the last four laps and eight in the last two. Did somebody get into him or something or did he have to back way off? And as for Mark: was it just me or did he drop from third to eighth in -one- (the final) lap? 94. murb posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark ran out of gas, 00andJoe... 95. dUDE gUY posted: 07.31.2011 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, I was pissed that Jeff Gordon couldn't pass Menard. I really, really wanted to see the 24 in Victory Lane tonight. I even gave my TV the finger when paul was celebrating. But a couple of hours have passed, and I have to give Menard some Kudos. His team gave him a solid top 10 car all night, and he and Slugger Labbe played the fuel mileage game flawlessly to put themselves in Victory Lane. Congrats. Also of note, this was Gordon's 10th top 5 at Indy, the first driver to reach a double-digit top 5 total there. He should remain the only one with that honour for a few years anyways, as the closest drivers in top fives, Mark Martin and Tony Stewart, each have "only" 6 top fives at the historic track so far. This was a good race for Indy. Lots of good racing around the track, and there was a lot of comers and goers due mostly to strategy. A pretty decent race to watch, in my opinion. 96. irony posted: 07.31.2011 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard was a DIRECTV Hot Pass driver for the first time I can remember, and he won. He drove his ass off for this win too. Congrats to him. Being a ride buyer does not get you a win in anything, let alone the Brickyard 400. Just look at John Wes Townley. ESPN did a surprisingly good job for this race. 97. Unser1 posted: 07.31.2011 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fate finally rewards John Menard at the Brickyard and it couldn't do it in a better fashion. Atta boy Paul, welcome to the NASCAR Cup series winner's club. I love first-time winners. 98. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think I'd have to agree with you, although I'd actually put JJ fourth behind Carl in the championship probability rating." I would agree about Carl if he weren't driving for Jack Roush. He already seems to have fallen behind Matt and Biff as far as speed, and even Ragan at times. Unless he signs a contract extension at Roush in the next two weeks, I think Jack will hang him out to dry. 99. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2011 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And boy was it nice having Bestwick back for play by play. 100. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) People like to complain about the racing at Indy, but I'll take a race like this over the "racing" at Daytona and Talladega any day. That attendance figure aint too bad either, compared to other tracks these days, and that's with the midwestern race saturation. I don't get what everyone is worrying about, this race is going to be around for a long time. Indy has at least 125,000 loyal fans that show up to anything, and the drivers fight harder for a win here than almost anywhere. I just think they should move it to later in the year to help with the heat (which would help local attendance tremendously). I'd like to see the Brickyard 400 kick off the Chase personally. With it's reputation as being such a kingmaker of a race, plus it's overall difficulty, it should play a larger role in determining the Champion. 101. New 14&88 Fan posted: 07.31.2011 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Folks complaining about Paul Menard winning this race need to relax, he drove his ass off to out run Jeff Gordon who had the best car beside Kasey Kahne and is a four time Brickyard winner.That is no small feat so congrats to Paul, Slugger and the whole #27 team on what will surely be the first of many. "And boy was it nice having Bestwick back for play by play." Amen to that, and Andy and DJ didn't sound to bad either.It was also great to see and hear from Ned Jarret. 102. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Suprised alot of people are mad about Paul winning. I don't mind, he bettered Jamie and Mark in the last run, and kept Jeff gordon behind him in the last two laps. Jeff Gordon is coming on strong, so is Matt kenseth who has earned the most points in the last 10 races. 103. Cooper posted: 07.31.2011 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "66. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.11 - 6:31 pm" The whole "Brickyard/Gasoline Alley/Spectacle of Racing" just seems cheesy to me. If the track focused more on the racing and not the gimmick of a "legendary atmosphere/the hollowed ground of legends" more people would be in the stands. JPM ran the last 212.5 miles on his left sides. That's why he finished so deep in the field, he had no grip left in his tires. That's how I feel about that. 104. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Clarifying my earlier comments about Chase contenders and wildcards: I don't think, despite having a win, that Denny Hamilin will make the chase either by making it into the top 10 or through the wildcard. The 11 is "off" this year (badly), and I honestly think both Biffle and Menard will finish ahead of him in points with Biffle winning before the Chase starts. If the 6 car can recover its momentum, of those four teams the 11 car might even finish fourth. 105. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The whole "Brickyard/Gasoline Alley/Spectacle of Racing" just seems cheesy to me. If the track focused more on the racing and not the gimmick of a "legendary atmosphere/the hollowed ground of legends" more people would be in the stands." Have you ever set foot in the Brickyard? Have you ever watched an Indy 500 in person? If not, I will ask you to kindly STFU, because you don't know what you're talking about. Do you really think the drivers are fooled by what you allege to be nothing more than media hype? Why do you think this race means so much to them? Figure that out and you'll have your answer. 106. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner standings by best finishing car: 1. Roush, 821 2. Gibbs, 809 3. Hendrick, 808 4. Childress, 779 5. Penske, 714 6. Stewart-Haas, 692 7. Petty, 644 8. Red Bull, 630 9. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 618 10. Michael Waltrip, 579 11. Furniture Row, 451 12. JTG-Daughtery, 427 13. Front Row, 381 14. Phoenix, 355 15. Baldwin, 290 16. Stoddard, 285 17. Germain, 282 18. TRG, 249 19. Robby Gordon, 239 20. Wood Brothers, 218 21. Gunselman, 137 22. Whitney, 97 23. NEMCO, 76 24. HP, 74 25. Inception, 34 26. Rusty Wallace, 24 27. Leavine, 14 28. Falk, 13 29. K-Automotive, 9 107. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unser1, read post #44, and you'll see many of the historic facts regarding John Menard at Indy over the years, including Al, Sr.'s third place finish in 1992 and the death of Scott Brayton after winning his second consecutive pole in 1996. As for Cooper's point about the whole IMS thing being about wanted it to be focused more on racing rather than history. Well, how many times must I mention that IMS was never designed as a race track, especially for the high speeds of today, regardless of the form of racing, but rather as a test track for the cars of the era in which it was built. After all, the Indianaplis 500 was not even the most popular race in the 1920s. The high-banked board tracks, which were the forerunners to the high-banked paved ovals of today were much more popular than IMS was, even then. Also, I wonder who Roush will pick to replace Edwards, who definately is gone at year's end. There actually is a rumor saying that Edwards has all but signed with Joe Gibbs to pilot the #20 car beginning next year. Both Ricky Stenhouse and Trevor Bayne, to different degrees, impressed me this weekend. Stenhouse dominated the race at IRP (that's what I call it), while Bayne, even though it was on a fuel mileage gamble, as he ran in the back much of the day, still ran as high as fourth in the #21 car before pitting, showing that he's more suited to the Cup races than the Nationwide races. The problem with either one of those tow drivers, particularly Bayne, is that they're likely to get pushed around, as that's already happening. Brad Keselowski muscled Stenhouse out of the lead late in the NNS race at IRP, as well as wrecking Bayne early in the Firecracker 400, as well as pushing Bayne down the backstretch one one of the restarts at Loudon. And let's not forget that Kevin Harvick also used Bayne up late in the NNS race at Loudon, otherwise Bayne might have won it. But if Keselowski muscles either Stenhouse or Bayne again, don't be surprised if one of the senior drivers at Roush take action against Keselowski to protect their "little brothers", much like Kevin Harvick protected Clint Bowyer's team after Denny Hamlin publicly accused them of cheating. I think Roush would move Stenhouse up to the #99 car if (or when) Edwards leaves, but I think, as much potential as I think Stenhouse has, that would be a mistake. I would put Bayne in the #99 car and put Stenhouse part-time in the #21 Wood Brothers car next year, but that's what I would do. After all, Bayne would have 18 Cup races under his belt, compared to a rocky ONE for Stenhouse, not to0 mention the experience of being thrown squarely into the limelight after his Daytona 500 win and subsequent illness, which he, to me, has handled incredibly well. Now if Roush releases David Ragan, the discussion of who would move up would, in my opinion, be moot, as both Stenhouse and Bayne would, undoubtedly be move up, though where that would leave the #21 part-time ride is uncertain. (Mark Martin, perhaps?) 108. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2011 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The whole "Brickyard/Gasoline Alley/Spectacle of Racing" just seems cheesy to me. If the track focused more on the racing and not the gimmick of a "legendary atmosphere/the hollowed ground of legends" more people would be in the stands." Furthermore, what are you actually suggesting they do? Reconfigure the track? Add banking? The track is what it is, and that hadn't been a problem for a century. I think they know what they're doing. Plus, there is a recession, attendance is down everywhere. This race still has the 3rd or 4th highest estimated attendance of any race this year. You have Kentucky 3 hours south, Chicago 3 hours north, Michigan and Bristol within reasonable driving distances. And they still draw out this many fans during humid, sticky late July days in Indiana. We're only 3 Indy races removed from one of the biggest screw-ups in NASCAR history, and still in the process of rebuilding the trust with the fans in the area. This year was probably the bottoming out, it happens after something like 2008. If the race eventually recovers even half of the fans they lost because of that race, we're going to be talking about the highest draw all year. Indianapolis Motor Speedway and the Brickyard 400 are going to be here long after you've bit the dust my friend, get used to it. 109. Watto posted: 07.31.2011 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If only that moron Mike Bliss would move out of the way." Bliss actually held up Menard more than Gordon too.. at least Gordon had the chance to get somewhat of an arc for T3. Menard was way low entering 1 trying to get past Bliss. "Two NASCAR wins, two flukes." Did you even watch that Milwaukee race he won? That was anything but a fluke, and this was anything but a fluke. If you play the strategy to put yourself in position, take the lead yourself against cars on the same strategy, and then hold off Jeff Gordon... you earned it. 110. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, if Gordon hadn't been closing in on him in the last couple of laps, Paul Menard may well have followed Bliss right to the finish line, using him to draft off of, a lot like Bobby Allison used Dave Marcis at the end of the 1978 Daytona 500. he drafted Marcis the last few laps after Buddy Baker fell out of that race and never once attempted to pass Marcis, instead, he drafted Marcis to his 1978 Daytona win. If Gordon hadn't been closing in, it's likely that Menard would have followed Bliss across the finish line, but Gordon wouldn't let him. By the way, the drivers that scored their victories, each a first-time victory, in the Daytona 500 (Trevor Bayne), Southern 500 (Regan Smith, who was third today), and now the Brickyard 400 (Menard) are all drivers that have a reputation not as being hard chargers, but rather, as conservative drivers that know how to get to the finish of a race. I mentioned it in light of Smith's win in the Southern 500, but I wonder if we are seeing a change in the type of drivers that are winning these big races from the aggressive drivers like Harvick, Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, and that type, to the more consistent-type drivers like Menard, Bayne, Smith, Jamie McMurray, among others, who find a way to get their car to the finish, no matter what. After all, the last three drivers to win the Southern 500, Smith, Denny Hamlin, and Mark Martin have that reputation, as well as the last three Daytona 500 winners, Bayne, McMurray, and Matt Kenseth. And now we can add Menard to that list of somewhat conservative drivers that are winning these big races. The recent wins in big races by Smith, Menard, Bayne, McMurray, Hamlin, and even Kevin Harvick, who has become a more conservative driver in the last couple of years, especially in the big races, proves the old addage that "in order to finish first, you must first finish". In fact, only one driver that has won one of the crown jewels over the last two years can, in my mind, be classified as an aggressive driver, and that's Kurt Busch. By the way, with all the crown jewel races for 2011 now run, we can say that Kevin Harvick was the only driver to win crown jewel races in both 2010 (spring Talladega) and 2011 (Coca-Cola 600), and that 2011 marks the first time that three of the crown jewels were won by drivers that had never previously won on the circuit. Besides Menard, Bayne and Smith had also never won on the circuit before their crown jewel victories in 2011. (Of course, Bayne's victory came in just his second start and was also the first crown jewel victory for a Ford driver since Matt Kenseth's win in the 2009 Daytona 500.) Four of the five crown jewels were won by Chevrolets, with Bayne's Daytona 500 win being the exception, and two were won by single-car teams, Bayne's Daytona 500 with the Wood Brothers and Smith's Southern 500 with Furniture Row Racing from out in Denver. Ironically, due to mileage strategy, both Bayne and Smith had chances to win this race. (Wouldn't a Bayne victory have made a story, since his team's founders were actually the winning pit crew for Jim Clark at Indy in 1965?) Interstingly, Ford has won only two crown jewels in the last five years, and hasn't won a crown jewel at somewhere other than Daytona since Greg Biffle's win in the 2006 Southern 500 at Darlington (I know it wasn't called that then). Meanwhile, Jeff Gordon's close call means that the all-time king of the crown jewels went winless in such events for the fourth consecutive year, his last being the 2007 Southern 500 at Darlington (and again, I know it wasn't called that then). Finally, Menard's win was the ninth consecutive at Indy for Chevrolet, but that's a LOOONNNG way from the speedway record. Believe it or not, cars powered by Offenhauser engines won the Indianapolis 500 18 consecutive times from 1947-'64, making Offenhauser the ultimate sports dynasty for any single event, more than doubling the Celtics' run of eight consecutive NBA championships from 1959-'66. 111. baker posted: 07.31.2011 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great post #49 I hate Paul Menard more than any driver on the circuit, but when you win at Indianapolis its because you earned it. Paul has never had to earn anything in his life, but today was a differnt story. You don't win at Indianapolis by luck. 112. 12345Dude posted: 07.31.2011 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude: The difference between 1999-2003 and now is that most of this years upsets were also flukes. Nemechek's wins in 01 and 03 involved absolute domination. In 99, John Andretti stormed from a lap down and passed the believed dominant car of Jeff Burton to take the lead with 4 to go without a yellow. In 00, Jerry Nadeau led over 150 laps for his only win. In 01, Robby Gordon bumped and runned Jeff Gordon to win at Loudon." Fair point. But you ignored some other upset wins. 1999: Joe Nemechek Led 72 Laps. But he finished 30th in standings. And that was his only top 5 for the whole season. Look at these other upset winers this year. That "tarnished" a win. Brad Keselowski - 21st in Standings, David Ragan 16th in Standings, Paul Menard 14th in Standings. 2000: Yes Jeremy Mayfield won two races. But he led on 34 laps in both wins! He also didn't finish in the top 20 in points. Bobby Hamilton wins in 2000 at Talladega. He led only 3 laps. And he was racing for Andy Petree's team. Joe Nemechek also won, while racing for Andy Petree that year. Finished 28th in the standings. Ricky Craven won at martinsville while only leading 90 laps. 2002: Ward Burton wins 2 races in 01. He lead 34 laps in BOTH events. He finished 25th!!! in the standings. Jamie McMurray wins in his second ever race. Johnny Benson leads 30 laps to his only win. He didn't finish in the top 25 in Points. I can go on. There are plenty of upsets. Just as many as this year. Why are people complaining now, when it was the same in 1999-2003. I don't know. People talk about how great it was to see all the different winners. 113. baker posted: 07.31.2011 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Who decided who the crown jewels are here? Talladega really? Never meant anything special IMO. Daytona 500, Southern 500, Coke 600, Brickyard 400 are the 4 crown jewels IMO. All obvious and undebateable. If and I mean a big if, you had to choose a 5th crown jewel I would rank the night race at Bristol over spring Dega. 114. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) baker: Talladega became considered a Crown Jewel back when Winston ran the Winston Million in the 1980s and 1990s. Daytona, Talladega, Charlotte and Darlington were the races in question. Talladega probably got the nod because it was, at the time, the Winston 500, but since then it's become traditionally one of the "you win this, you've won a big one" events. (And not even Bobby Hillin having won it made it cheap. ;) ) 115. 00andJoe posted: 07.31.2011 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, speaking of Talladega, here's an interesting statstitcal tidbit: Andy Lally tied his best career finish at a non-road-course, non-restrictor-plate tack. 116. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2011 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The spring race at Talladega has always been considered a crown jewel event, starting with the first edition of that race in 1970, which was won by Pete Hamliton. That idea gained further notion when the Winston Million program was announced at the 1984 Awards Banquet. NASCAR decided that the richest (Daytona 500), fastest (Winston 500/spring Talladega), longest (Coca-Cola 600), and the oldest (Southern 500) would be the four races, with the Brickyard 400 joining the club when it was conceived in 1993, with its first event coming in 1994. But 00andJoe, Bobby Hillin, Jr. never won that race. He won the July race there in 1986. The only drivers to score their first victory in the spring race at Talladega were Davey Allison (1987), Phil Parsons (1988), and Brad Keselowski (2009). Of those, only Parsons, whose brother Benny, ironically never won at Talladega, never won again. By contrast, almost all of the first-time winners of the second annual Talladega race never won again, with Ken Schrader being, to my knowledge, the only exception. The other first-time winners in that second Talladega race besides Hillin (1986) and Schrader (1988) were Richard Brickhouse (1969 in the very first Talladega race), Dick Brooks (1973), Lennie Pond (1978), and Ron Bouchard (1981). Interestingly, the Wood Brothers won the spring race at Talladega four consecutive times. First, they won it in 1971 with Donnie Allison, then they won it the next three years in a row with David Pearson driving. Ironically, they have, to this day, never won that race again, though they did win the July race in 1980 with Neil Bonnett. 117. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.31.2011 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, I've never seen Talladega as a "crown-jewel" event either. I've always looked at it as just another race. The "crown-jewel" events in terms of hype from the media are (in no order) the Daytona 500, The All-Star, Coca-Cola 600 and the Brickyard 400. Of that group, with the exception of the All-Star (which can be exciting at times but I see it as just a gimmick), I'd say that those are the biggest "crown-jewel" events. 118. murb posted: 08.01.2011 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me, the current crown jewels on the schedule are the Daytona 500, the Southern 500/Mother's Day 500, the Coke 600, and the Brickyard 400. And maybe in a few years, you could throw in the Labor Day 500 at Atlanta. I'm sort of expecting that race to get a prestigious feel to it, seeing as though its the only race at that track currently, and its one of the drivers favorites. As for Talladega, I've never viewed it as a "crown jewel" race either. It's more of a "wild card, this is one of our best chances to win this year" type of race. 119. Ryan posted: 08.01.2011 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And Harvick had been considered a champion in waiting since his rookie year even though his career hasn't panned out quite as expected." I think just being one win away (Darlington) from the all the crown jewels of racing means it's very close to panning out. If not for the lame Chase he would have won the title last year. "Who decided who the crown jewels are here? Talladega really? Never meant anything special IMO. Daytona 500, Southern 500, Coke 600, Brickyard 400 are the 4 crown jewels IMO. All obvious and undebateable. If and I mean a big if, you had to choose a 5th crown jewel I would rank the night race at Bristol over spring Dega." Talladega was/is a "major" deal. Go watch the end of the 1984 Talladega 500 on youtube when Earnhardt passed Labonte for the win and listen to the announcers talk like it was a BIG deal winning that race. I believe it was Ned Jarrett saying Earnhardt was the first to win that race twice in a row or winning it twice in a row with two different car makes. The crew acted like it was the Daytona 500, but it was also the first year for Childress, too. If you grew up and lived during that day and age you would consider it a big race because everyone did. And it helped that the Winston million came into play as well. Speed records were set there in stock cars so to a lot of drivers it was a major deal to run well there because it showed what your whole team was about when it came to speed and pushing that speed and engine to the limit for 500 miles. So many drivers blew engines there trying to run the fastest so it was a big deal for speed and enduring that speed for 500 miles. So it was a major race for all the teams in that regard. It also caused a lot of excitement with last lap passes and when Bill Elliott made up two laps under green and won the race. Since they have slowed down the racing at 'dega it has lost a lot of its luster. Tracks like Atlanta, Charlotte, Michigan, and Texas are a lot faster now because of the plates and requirements for the plates. I would have agreed with you five years ago and said Bristol was close to being a major and then Nascar decided to reconfigure the track into a mini-Dover with an extra lane and it has taken some of its luster away as well. "That idea gained further notion when the Winston Million program was announced at the 1984 Awards Banquet. NASCAR decided that the richest (Daytona 500), fastest (Winston 500/spring Talladega), longest (Coca-Cola 600), and the oldest (Southern 500) would be the four races, with the Brickyard 400 joining the club when it was conceived in 1993, with its first event coming in 1994." Couldn't have said it better myself. Former Indy President Tony George used the funding from the Brickyard races to start his Indy Racing League and thus made Indy a nascar town... for a while. Now, I think Indianapolis is close if not already back as an open wheel town where the economy has went down and thus the attendance at Nascar races. I still consider Talladega to be a jewel. 120. Steve Retarte posted: 08.01.2011 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No one can claim that Jimmie Johnson had a golden horseshoe in his anus today. 121. Red posted: 08.01.2011 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I find it unfortunate that 4/5 of the supposed crown jewels are not really driver's tracks. Daytona and Dega are crapshoot plate races that anybody can win, the Coca-Cola 600 is held at an aero-dependent cookie-cutter, and the Brickyard is the aero-push capital of the racing world, where strategy matters more than speed. In my mind, the Southern 500 is the only crown jewel that really speaks to the ability of the driver. That race, along with the short tracks and road courses, are the ones I value the highest. I personally don't care if a driver wins "the big ones" or not, because the most prestigious races are usually more about the car (and luck) than the driver. In my opinion, Dale Jarrett is a good example of a driver who is vastly overrated because of his success in big races. Jarrett won six crown jewels, but never the Southern 500. Of his 32 career victories, only 10 came at driver's tracks. He was an above average driver, but that's about it. Without Yates horsepower he would have been a poor man's Greg Biffle. 122. penskefan posted: 08.01.2011 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard gets his first win, nail biting finish, no marty reid in the booth. All and all a good day 123. Ryan posted: 08.01.2011 - 12:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In my opinion, Dale Jarrett is a good example of a driver who is vastly overrated because of his success in big races. Jarrett won six crown jewels, but never the Southern 500. Of his 32 career victories, only 10 came at driver's tracks. He was an above average driver, but that's about it. Without Yates horsepower he would have been a poor man's Greg Biffle." I some what agree with this. I've sort of felt this way, too. But I will say that whenever the oppurunity presented itself for him in big races to use his equipment to win a big race, he did. He also took down Davey at Michigan and he had to "race" his way to victory for his first win. He hardly ever let it slip away except for the 1998 debacle here at Indy. He also won the 1993 500, but it too had an awesome Hendrick engine in the car (he passed an inexperienced Jeff Gordon and a snake bitten Earnhardt at Daytona with old tires). His best chance at winning the Southern 500 was there in 1996 when he was leading and wrecked when he ran over some oil ruining his chance to win the Winston Million. Ernie Irvan is the same way, he never did well at Darlington and was a weapon more than anything, only thing that keeps him and Rusty Wallace in conversation is their success on the road courses from time to time and Rusty only has one crown jewel at Charlotte. Rusty was mainly a short track specialist with flashes at Michigan and Pocono from time to time. 124. 00andJoe posted: 08.01.2011 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah. I couldn't remember which of the 'Dega races Hillin had won. 125. Anonymous posted: 08.01.2011 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i only consider talladega a crown jewel race if they aren't running restrictor plates, because then its the fastest race. I would much prefer that to plate racing, because racing is about pushing a car to its limit, not half of it, i thought that it was pathetic that jeff gordon won the pole at talladega this year at 178mph, its 2011 and we just had the slowest pole winner in talladega history, in 1968 cale yarborough qualified on the pole for the daytona 500 at 189mph, i could've take that '68 cyclone #21, it must still exist, it also won the 500 in '68, prepare it to run, and won the pole by 10-15mph. I think with a few modifications to the cars, (e.g. flaps that deploy under the fuel cell, that prevent air going under the car.) taller walls at talladega and daytona, and all the other modern safety devices, take the plates off the cars, and set car killing paces in the 210-240mph range. Just my opinion 126. soupclan posted: 08.01.2011 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i agree with those saying this doesn't cheapen the event..... the best don't always win....Tiger Woods didn't win every major championship....Roger Federer doesn't win every grand slam.....Duke doesn't always win March Madness. every once in a while in every major sport theres a year like this.....i personally think its great to see unexpected winners.....stratagy wins are no less done then regular races without stratagy....... look at 2009 in golfs 4 big events the combined career wins on tour for those 4 that won that year... 8.....8 career wins for 4 guys.....Tiger has won more in one year then that....but then you have years were top dogs win all the big events.... this year was just one of them freaky years were the top races are won by surprise winners......its not like everyyear has this happen....enjoy this year.....because they dont come along often. congrats to paul and what a way to end the 4major championship races for the year....now its truly time to start thinking about the championship. 127. JP88 posted: 08.01.2011 - 2:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow congrats to Menard...he definitely deserved the win 128. Spen posted: 08.01.2011 - 2:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872 : In addition to Kenny Schrader, Vickers has also gone on to win again after first winning in the Talladega 500. By the way, I've got a little question for you. What's your opinion of James Buescher? I know we've kinda sorta bumped heads a time or two, but I do respect your opinions, and always like to have your input. 129. Thomas posted: 08.01.2011 - 5:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Paul Menard on his 2nd career win (yes, I'm another of those who think Stewart should have been penalized at Talladega in the fall of 2008, but wasn't because he's one of NASCAR's "Golden Boys"). 130. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.01.2011 - 6:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude: My point is that those drivers were dominant factors those days and some of the days you mentioned. 131. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.01.2011 - 6:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude: In 2000, Mayfield did lead 34 combined laps in his wins, but they were on 2 mile (California) and 2.5 mile (Pocono) tracks. Also Mayfield, despite his points, ended the year with 843 laps led. I agree with the Hamilton bit, but Nemechek led over 200 laps at the Rock, that is over half of the race; I'd say he dominated. 132. beau posted: 08.01.2011 - 7:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 79. yeah i forgot ambrose. 133. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2011 - 7:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, I completely forgot about Brian Vickers, as I didn't even list him, but you are absolutely correct about Vickers. He won the second Talladega race in 2006 after his controversial reverse chain-reaction incident with Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and Jimmie Johnson, although there are those that say that Kasey Kahne actually won that race, the official restuls show Vickers as having won that event. As for those that don't consider the spring race at Talladega a crown jewel due to the comparative lack of speed today, keep in mind that the three fastest races in NASCAR history all occurred in that eavent, including Mark Martin's 1997 win at an average speed of over 188 MPH for the entrie race, a record unlikely ever to be broken. Now, as for those that are downgrading Dale Jarrett's success because of Robert Yates' engines, I say what have you been smoking? Sure, Jarrett won two Daytona 500s with Yates (the other one came with Joe Gibbs Racing), along with two Brickyard 400s and the 1996 Coca-Cola 600. Well, he outraced Dale Earnhardt, Sr. for each of his first two Daytona 500 wins and outgunned Ernie Irvan in an equally matched car for his first Brickyard 400 in 1996. Let's not forget that Jarrett won the fall race at Charlotte twice (1994, '97), won the old 400-mile spring race at Darlington two consecutive years (1997-'98), socred wins at all three current short tracks during his career, and won the 1999 series championship, making he and Ned Jarrett just the second father-son dup ever to both win the title. Jarrett won 32 races, finished second an equal number of times, and was one of the most underrated drivers in history. Sure, he wasn't flashy like Earnhardt, Gordon, Johnson, and Stewart. But there's one thing that can be taken to the bank, and that is that when there was big money on the line and he was in the hunt for it, there was a better than average chance that Jarrett was going to cash in BIG. And let us not forget that, in a head-to-head race with Yates' car in 1991 in August at Michigan, which was driven by Davey Allison, who was just about to go into what should have been the prime of his career, and he was as dominant at Michigan as he was anywhere else, Jarrett, driving for the Wood Brothers, which, by itself, put him at an obvious disadvantage, beat Allison head-to-head for his very first NASCAR Cup series victory, which proved that Jarrett had heart, winning a race that he had no business winning at all. 134. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2011 - 8:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with Cooper about Indy. It is all spectacle and hype and "history". The fact is they have only had one good race there in 18 years. Even the Indy locals are seemingly less impressed by NASCAR racing there by the year. And now they are having to kill off the traditional IRP date to "rejuvenate" the Brickyard. I think NASCAR just needs to give Indy up. It isn't worth it anymore. And I don't care what the drivers think. If it was up to them we would race at Michigan 20 times a year. 135. BLabonte47 posted: 08.01.2011 - 9:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Brickyard 400 now has it's own Derrike Cope. 136. Anonymous posted: 08.01.2011 - 10:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The fact is they have only had one good race there in 18 years." That's not a fact, that's an opinion. An ignorant opinion. "Even the Indy locals are seemingly less impressed by NASCAR racing there by the year." No we aren't. Funny that someone who seemingly has never been to Indianapolis wants to tell us how we feel about racing. With the heavy humidity here in the summer, temperatures usually feel like 100+ degrees on race day. Plus there is this little thing called a recession going on. Ask your local representative about it, they'll fill you in. Or you could open a newspaper. They do have those in the south, right? (hey look at me, making presumptions about where you live without ever going there!) I believe Indianapolis race fans know and appreciate racing, in all of its forms, better than anywhere else. We enjoy open wheel, stock car, drag racing, Formula 1, motorcycles. All of them come here, and get support (or in the case of F1, GOT support). You wouldn't believe how many people around here miss going to the F1 race, and they are the same kind of people who have NASCAR flags pinned to their wall, and pictures of AJ Foyt framed above their mantle. Indianapolis is a racing town, full of racing fans. Not just NASCAR fans, and not just Indycar fans. True racing fans. "I think NASCAR just needs to give Indy up. It isn't worth it anymore." What's not worth it, selling 140,000 tickets to a NASCAR race in a down economy, 3 years after a tire debacle that severely damaged fan trust? Better television ratings than most other races besides the Daytona 500? Are those not worth it? Maybe you're right, a sport that's hurting to sell tickets and draw fan interest on TV should give up one of it's strongest races, that makes sense. "And I don't care what the drivers think" Because you obviously know better than them, right? You're the big expert that should be running NASCAR, I guess. I'm sure if you were running it, it would be the most popular sport in America because you'd never make a bad move! You've got a good start on being the next France, you already think you are better than the drivers at what they do, and you always know whats best for them. Who cares if they love this race, and desperately want to win it, maybe we should move this race to another new track, everybody knows that new races hold their initial attendance for ever and ever! Why, it's only been proven again and again over the past 20 years as a solid fact, right? And while we're at it, let's compare this race with all the other races on the schedule that don't have any companion races to support them. Oh wait, there aren't any? So then I can just make stuff up like you, awesome. If the Daytona 500 didn't have any companion races, they would only sell 125,000 tickets. Go ahead and prove it wrong! But the Brickyard, which up until 3 years ago drew more fans than any race on the circuit every year, despite your allegations of never having good racing, and without having anything else to offer fans on the weekend....now it doesn't deserve a companion race and NASCAR should just give up because it's had attendance problems at the same time every other track on the schedule. Right. If NASCAR gave up as easily as you do, I don't think the sport would have made it out of the 50s. And don't take my endorsement of Nationwide racing at IMS as a suggestion that NASCAR should abandon IRP, I think the Nationwide and Truck series should race there some other weekend during the year. Plenty of other cities get two racing weekends a year, what makes us less deserving? We've only supported the Nationwide and Truck series SINCE THEY BEGAN. Even though according to you, we're less impressed by NASCAR racing every year. Us fickle Indianapolis race fans, I guess we're just getting tired of auto racing after being the epicenter of it for a century. If you could see me from my house in SPEEDWAY Indiana, you'd see me giving you the middle finger. 137. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2011 - 11:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the drivers even complained about the racing at Michigan this year, as they complained about the aero-push problem even there, and you can run anywhere on the track there, and the attendance was down there more than it was at Indy, where attendance was down only 2,000 from last year, much to my surprise, because I predicted there would be a crowd of only 80,000, but it turned out to be 138,000, which, while nowhere near a full house, is a pretty good attendance figure. I'm not sure anyone has been more critical about attendance the last couple of weeks than I have been, but I was impressed by the surprisingly HIGH attendance figure at Indy for the Brickyard 400 this year. 138. 1995z71 posted: 08.01.2011 - 11:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard gets is first win before Jeff Burton gets his first top 10 of the season! 139. IglooRacer posted: 08.01.2011 - 11:22 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I 100% agree with soupclan Regan smith won the southern 500 on pit strategy, he stayed out and held off carl edwards.And yet I recall alot of people saying that was a huge upset and it was a good thing. Paul menard does the same thing, he wins on pit stratagy, holds off jeff gordon and it's tarnishing the history of the race. NASCAR fans, I don't understand you guys. 140. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.01.2011 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) IR: Good Point 141. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.01.2011 - 11:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jon : I am aware I listed some Indy 500s as F1 races but thanks for noticing the ambiguity of my list. From 1911 through 49, the 500 was AAA and several other groups. From 1950-1960, it was F1. 61-78, 81-82 was USAC solely. 79-80, 83-95 was CART with USAC sanctioning. 96-present is IndyCar. 142. Frank posted: 08.01.2011 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice discussion. One point, especially to cjs. For what reason you are using "if not"? We have no "if not" and "what if"s in history and in sport! That's the magic of Indy 500 that it's not enough to be Hildebrand (or Andretti, Marco) to win in the first try. You need to be at least Castroneves. On the other hand, what if not messy finish in Fontana, strategy mistake in Dover, Martinsville? Yes, JJ has only one win, unbelievable one and what? Kyle has three - is he more favorite in the Chase? Surely not. Enjoying amount of different winners I started thinking that on the 8th year of Chase's existence top teams FINALLY got how to spread efforts & resources in regular season. They're simply didn't pursuit themselves week in and week out - because Darlington and Indy are not in the Chase! So if we'll equal or ever surpass 19 different winners (and 35 different drivers in Top5 - holy crap!) of 2001 it wouldn't have the same value. Because of Chase - you have to be an insider to really know how much teams like 48, 29, 99 and 17 working on setups for non-chase tracks. 143. IglooRacer posted: 08.01.2011 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know what anyone else thought, but the racing seemed abit better then the past few years. It wasn't amazing by any means but it was better, the finish was worth it. Jeff Gordon almost made an epic comeback ( something like 12 seconds behind with 12 laps to go?) even if the leaders were saving fuel he still needed to run 12 perfect laps and pass Martin, Mcmurray, Smith and menard. I would love to see Jeff win one more cup and break jimmies streak. If not Gordon then kenseth, I think Edwards performance may trail off slightly. 144. murb posted: 08.01.2011 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So if we'll equal or ever surpass 19 different winners (and 35 different drivers in Top5 - holy crap!) of 2001 it wouldn't have the same value. Because of Chase - you have to be an insider to really know how much teams like 48, 29, 99 and 17 working on setups for non-chase tracks." I'd say we'll probably get 4 or 5 more winners before the end of the year. The way Tony has been running, he has to get one at some point. I think guys like Bowyer and Allmendinger are gonna be really good at Pocono this upcoming week. Maybe Ambrose can get one at the Glen. And another thing that people don't realize is that Phoenix has that new configuration, so as far as I'm concerned that one is totally up in the air. (Unless JJ just runs off with another dominating run there, lol!) 145. murb posted: 08.01.2011 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, did anyone see ESPN's "race off pit road" glitch where they showed that Bowyer took 255 tires? It was a classic ESPN moment. But other than that, their coverage was really good, mainly due to Allen Bestwick back as the play by play guy. 146. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2011 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No we aren't. Funny that someone who seemingly has never been to Indianapolis wants to tell us how we feel about racing. With the heavy humidity here in the summer, temperatures usually feel like 100+ degrees on race day." Hey buddy, I've been to 4 Southern 500s, the real Southern 500s, 4 hour races in the suffocating Labor Day South Carolina heat and humidity. Don't tell me about heat. And as far as your long winded "you don't know anything about us" rant, this race (which has always been in late July or early August) was filled to the brim for years and years. As recently as 4 years ago 270,000 fans paid to show up. Now it is half that many. If that doesn't say "interest in this event is falling locally", I don't know what does. The numbers don't lie. The same race, the same temperatures, the same "tradition", yet attendacne has fallen in half. And the fact that attendance for the Indy 500 is still upwards of 250,000 only hurts your point. 147. Brad24 posted: 08.01.2011 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Post #145 "But other than that, their coverage was really good, mainly due to Allen Bestwick back as the play by play guy." Amen to that! 148. Schroeder51 posted: 08.01.2011 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #145-Oh yeah, that. I was actually going to post about him taking "255" tires, but I quickly forgot about it. 149. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2011 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The way he's capable of running, Tony will certainly get a win simply by lucking into one (like he did at the 2007 race at Watkins Glen), and it's a virtual lock that either Montoya or Ambrose will win at Watkins Glen, so that's two more to add to the list. Then there's Talladega, where we may see another new winner. And Kasey Kahne is almost certainly going to win somewhere if he keeps running strong, if his pit crew doesn't foul things up. So there's four more potential winners there, for a total of 18. and if there are more strategy races, there may be drivers that haven't won this year that we may even be thinking about that could possibly win before the season's completed. And, by the way, with the way that Jeff Gordon seems to be finishing out races this year, and not fading as the year has progressed, how much of his last three years can we now officially say is an indictment of Steve Letarte, as his car is doing its usual mid-to-late season fade. After all, when Letarte was his crew chief, Gordon, once considered the greatest closer in the history of the sport, couldn't close a race if his life depended on it, meaning that he, along with Kevin Harvick and Jimmie Johnson, are now the most feared drivers at the end of a race. But now Gordon is looking like the Gordon of old when the end of a race gets near. It has, in my mind, become obvious that Gordon is the favorite among the Hendrick drivers to bring this year's title to HMS, especially with the comedy of errors that Jimmie Johnson's pit stops have become. 150. murb posted: 08.01.2011 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And, by the way, with the way that Jeff Gordon seems to be finishing out races this year, and not fading as the year has progressed, how much of his last three years can we now officially say is an indictment of Steve Letarte, as his car is doing its usual mid-to-late season fade. After all, when Letarte was his crew chief, Gordon, once considered the greatest closer in the history of the sport, couldn't close a race if his life depended on it, meaning that he, along with Kevin Harvick and Jimmie Johnson, are now the most feared drivers at the end of a race. But now Gordon is looking like the Gordon of old when the end of a race gets near. It has, in my mind, become obvious that Gordon is the favorite among the Hendrick drivers to bring this year's title to HMS, especially with the comedy of errors that Jimmie Johnson's pit stops have become." Those are definitely great points. But I'd also throw Kenseth onto that list of most feared drivers at the end of a race. 151. Brad24 posted: 08.01.2011 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Post #149 "And, by the way, with the way that Jeff Gordon seems to be finishing out races this year, and not fading as the year has progressed, how much of his last three years can we now officially say is an indictment of Steve Letarte, as his car is doing its usual mid-to-late season fade. After all, when Letarte was his crew chief, Gordon, once considered the greatest closer in the history of the sport, couldn't close a race if his life depended on it, meaning that he, along with Kevin Harvick and Jimmie Johnson, are now the most feared drivers at the end of a race. But now Gordon is looking like the Gordon of old when the end of a race gets near. It has, in my mind, become obvious that Gordon is the favorite among the Hendrick drivers to bring this year's title to HMS, especially with the comedy of errors that Jimmie Johnson's pit stops have become." I know I'm not the first one to say it, but I think it's really safe to say that Gordon has benefited the most from the HMS crew chief swap in the off-season. The Jeff Gordon of old is definitely back, and will be a serious threat to de-throne the 48. 152. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2011 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, sure Kenseth will be a major factor, if for no other reason, that he doesn't make mistakes, and I think this championship will be won by the driver and team that makes the fewest mistakes, not who runs up front the most, and I would not be surprised if the title comes down to Kesneth vs. Gordon this year for that reason. (I right now would favor Kenseth since his crew chief, Jimmy Fennig has won a title, as well as the Daytona 500, while Gordon's crew chief Alan Gufstason has never won any of the sport's major prizes, except for maybe the 2009 Southern 500 with Mark Martin.) It's also odd that it seemed that Kenseth would have preferred Gordon to have won the Brickyard over Paul Menard. When you consider the past that Kenseth and Gordon have with each other, I find that very odd. 153. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2011 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, Brad24, it was predicted before the season even started that the Hendrick crew chief swap would eventually tilt heavily in Gordon's favor. It took a while for that to happen, but boy has it ever turned out that way, as gordon's is not only the top HMS car right now, but also the top Chevrolet, and it doesn't even seem close at this moment. But we'll see what happens on the banked tracks, which has been the #24 team's achilles heel this year, as he really hasn't run well at any of them so far. 154. Indyfan posted: 08.01.2011 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If that doesn't say "interest in this event is falling locally", I don't know what does. The numbers don't lie. The same race, the same temperatures, the same "tradition", yet attendacne has fallen in half." Did 2008 just not happen in your mind whatsoever? Is your argument really that nothing ever changed, but attendance is falling off anyway? That's just....unbelievable. Here, maybe this will help make sense of things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Allstate_400_at_the_Brickyard God I can't stand people that are willfully ignorant... 155. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2011 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) However, if future Brickyard 400s were like this past one, I think fan interest would go back to what it was prior to 2005, when interest really began to decline, due to the decreased importance of this event due to the Chase. After all, this race was far superior to the Nationwide Series race at IRP the night before (with the exception of that race's finish). And while everyone can agree that the 2008 Brickyard 400 was a total fiasco, the Nationwide Series race at IRP the night before wasn't any better. After all, Kyle Busch led every green flag lap of the NNS race at IRP in 2008 and Colin Braun, driving the #16 car, was second for every green flag lap in the same event. Yes, the 2008 Brickyard 400 was a total nightmare, but at least there was some racing in that event. Not as much as everyone had hoped of course, but there was some racing, unlike the night before. But interest in the Brickyard 400 had already began to wane even at that point due to the Chase making it a far less impoprtant event, but the 2008 fiasco excellerated the decline of the event, it did not begin the event's decline, but there were signs, from the unexpectedly large crowd to the racing that took place, which was also unexpectedly good, that in three years, if the event can last that long, we could see crowds of 170,000 or more for this event again. Remember, the 2004 race was also a total disaster, with 14 caution flags and an average speed of less than 115 MPH, due mostly to blown tires on the newly diamond-grinded surface that would cause so many problems four years later, in 2008. 156. Jon posted: 08.01.2011 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) sorry, no, this race was not superior to the IRP race. no race at IMS will EVER be > IRP, at least in stock cars. 157. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2011 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Did 2008 just not happen in your mind whatsoever?" Do you really think that is the only debacle NASCAR has ever had? What about the 2010 Daytona 500 pothole? What about the drivers sit down strike at Dega in '09? How about both '05 Charlotte races? How about the pothole at Martinsville in '04? How about New Hampshire coming apart in '02? How about the first two Texas races? The first Dover race on concrete? The 1990 Wilkesboro race that had a 30 lap caution because they didn't know who the freaking leader was? None of these debacles had profound effects on those venues. If one bad race is gonna scare half the crowd off, then questions need to be asked. There are many variables that go into racing, any week could potentially be a disaster, and it happens. That is why I put no stock into the whole "it's the tire debacle of 2008's fault" theory. If that is what has put them off for good, then that is somewhere we don't need to be. Besides, wasn't there an Indy 500 that took 3 days to complete sometime in the 1970s? And didn't that race also have a bunch of tragedies? Why didn't that stop fans from coming back? Because that is open wheel country NASCAR at Indy has lost its thrill. Again, the numbers don't lie. And neither do previous situations that didn't cause attendance to be sliced in half. 158. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.01.2011 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Indiana fans were edgy ever since the 04 race. Each race after got crummier, and in 08 the Indiana Indys finally said, "Enough!" and left. You can't muscle in other people's territory and demand success of the fans when they are enthralled with something else. They needed to be more progressive with trying to bring the people back, and I think saying "We're going to force other series you already ignore (Grand-Am, NNS) to try to bring more ticket request." is going to offend them, and I can realistically see NASCAR no longer here in 10 years. DSFF: Dover 2004. Need I say, "Debacle, Farce, Sham, Disgrace." That race was maybe the worst. 159. Anonymous posted: 08.01.2011 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, You forgot to mention that Truck series might forced to IMS also for trying keep Nascar there and that would offend the race fans over there even more. 160. Statman posted: 08.01.2011 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard's first victory in 167 NASCAR Sprint Cup Series races. He is the 181st driver to win a Cup Series race. Menard's previous best Indy finish was 14th (2010). Richard Childress Racing's 98th Cup Series victory, tying the Wood Brothers for fifth all time. Menard is the seventh different driver to win for Richard Childress Racing. Regan Smith's (third) first finish better than 31st at Indy. Jamie McMurray (fourth) posted his best finish in 2011 and first top-five of the season. 161. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2011 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, yes, that would be the 1973 Indianapolis 500, in which Art Pollard was killed in a practice run on pole day, and speeds almost got to the 200 PMH mark in qualifying. Then on race day, Steve Krisiloff missed a shift on the start, creating a rolling road block which narrowed the racing room, leading to the infamous incident in which Salt Walther lept over Jerry Grant's car and careening off the catch fence, starting a crash that involved himself, Grant, and 10 others, and badly burned Walther's hands, legs, and feet. Then two more days were lost to the rain. but when the race finally started, it wasn't that bad, except for what happened on the 59th lap when Swede Savage lost control and crashed heavily into the inside wall just before thepit entrance. He suffered badly broken legs, which prevented him frmo getting out of the car, which was on fire. That eventually led to his death 33 days after the race. Meanwhile, on pit road, Armando Teran, a crew member for Graham McRae, one of Savage's teammates, was run over by a safety vehicle and killed instantly. when the race restarted, Al Unser was leading but fell out shortly afterwards, leaving Gordon Johncock unchallenged as he took the victory. Fittingly, after three days of rain, they didn't get the race fully completed then because it rained again. But what people don't realize about that race was the massive rate of attrition that race had. Of the 32 cars that took the green flag, 20 were eliminated by mechanical failures, including Bobby Allison, Lloyd Ruby, A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti, both Unser brothers. In fact, only 10 cars finished that race, even tough it only ran two-thirds distance, and some of the ones that finished actually had to be repaired from the crash on the initial start, while another, driven by David Hobbs was smoking for practically the entire race. And Jon, how can anyone consider a race in which the same two drivers run 1-2 in the same order for practically the entire race a good race? and remember, that happened at IRP not only this past Saturday night with Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. and Trevor Bayne (until Bayne's engine blew while heading to a second-place finish, as he was never going to challenge Stenhouse, just as has been the case all year, and probably under orders from Jack Roush, though Edwards IS allowed to race Stenhouse, but that's another story for another day), but that also happened in 2008, the year of the IMS tire fiasco. That night, Kyle Busch led EVERY green flag lap and Colin Braun, driving the same #16 car that Bayne ran second last Saturday night until his engine blew, ran second on EVERY green flag lap in that 2008 IRP race. How on earth is that good racing? 162. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2011 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, Dover '04 was awful. An officiating disgrace. 163. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2011 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought it was 1973 but wasn't 100% sure. Don't they call that the 72 hours of Indy? 164. 00andJoe posted: 08.01.2011 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pocono entry list is up. 47 cars: -Stremme in the #30 -Geoff Bodine in the #35 -Scott Speed in the #37 -Bell in the #50 -Wimmer in the #77 165. Anonymous posted: 08.01.2011 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) sad to see terry labonte as a start and park 166. Scott B posted: 08.01.2011 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And on the plus side, even if it is superficial... loved the Ned tribute paint scheme on the #6, nice break from the usual UPS brown. Great on delivery trucks, not so much on a racecar. 167. Scott B posted: 08.01.2011 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard is now one of 41 drivers with 1 career Cup victory. 168. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.01.2011 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How on earth is that good racing? " The question should be; What constitutes 'good' racing? By what you're saying, Talladega is where you'll find the best racing on the circuit, but we all know that isn't true. Quality of racing isn't determined by numbers and statistics and what goes on at the front doesn't always represent the rest of the field. The NNS race at IRP was a bloody good race. Not amazing, but a good, solid race. And it would have been even better without the fake cautions - even if that meant Ricky Stenhouse was to lead flag-to-flag. 169. murb posted: 08.01.2011 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yeah, Dover '04 was awful. An officiating disgrace." Was that the one where they were under caution for like 30 minutes, and then the lap they went back to green Blaney and Michael were screwing around and caused like a 20 car pileup in turn three? If so, then yeah, that one was excruciating. 170. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2011 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ain't that the truth, Anonymous. A driver that's just one step below a great champion reduced to that. It' one of the saddest things I can remember ever happening, even beyond Richard Petty failing to qualify for a handful of races in 1989. As for post #168 about what constitutes good racing. Well, it certainly is NOT one driver leading flag-to-flag. If you like that, then the 2000 fall race at Loudon, or last year's fall Nationwide race at Phoenix must be your cup of tea. Remember, there were also 11 start-and-parks in that race at IRP, so there were effectively only 31 cars in that race, so it gave the drivers more room to move around. But it would have been nice to see somenoe actually challenge Stenhouse during the race, but of course, with Trevor Bayne in second place most of the way, you knew that wasn't going to happen, as Bayne was, more than likely instructed by Jack Roush not to challenge Stenhouse, since Stenhouse is battling for the championship and was sponsored, while Bayne is/was neither for that event. Yes, I'm saying that Bayne was probably not allowed to race Stenhouse at any time during that event, so it must have been refreshing for him to run up with the leaders late at the Brickyard 400, where he didn't have to worry about not being able to race with those around him. Sure, he had to stop for fuel, but it must have been refreshing for him not to be restricted by team tactics. It will be very interesting this week at Iowa if Bayne and Stenhouse are both running up front, since Stenhouse is running for the title, but Bayne apparently will be the one among those two that actually has a sponsor for the race, if what Jayski has up is true. It would be interesting if Bayne is allowed to race with Stenhouse, or if he will have to give way, as has been pretty much the case most of the season, except for the plate races. But anyway, after Bayne fell out, and Brad Keselowski moved up to second due to what happened during that caution period that the real race would finally start, and boy did it! The last seven laps more than made up for the first 196. 171. Bronco posted: 08.01.2011 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last time (for now) that this race will be called the Brickyard 400; Crown Royal is moving their sponsorship from the spring Richmond event to Indy starting next year. I'm not a big fan of long winded race names to be honest. Jamie McMurray's gets his first top 5 since winning at Charlotte last October. David Ragan's paint scheme (with the white wheels) gets my vote for best paint scheme of 2011. Carl Edwards' Cheez-It scheme that ran at Pocono is by far the worst scheme out there. Its disappointing to see a former champion like Terry Labonte use his PCP to make races and then start and park. 172. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2011 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is the one murb. That race took longer than some of the Dover races back when they were 500 miles. 173. Steve posted: 08.01.2011 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't watch the race, but it's terrific that John Menard has finally won at Indianapolis (too bad it wasn't in the 500). Over the years, his cars led over 200 laps, won 2 Indy 500 poles with the late Scott Brayton, finished 3rd in 1992 with Al Unser, and ran out of fuel on the last lap in 1999 (Robby Gordon ended up 4th). He spent as much as $6,000,000 a year solely to win the Indy 500, but came up short time after time; in the modern era only Newman-Haas Racing and Panther Racing can claim to be the best non-Indy winning teams. Good for John. Also, I heard that Allen Bestwick is ESPN's new play-by-play announcer; finally! That's where he belonged all along! Now if they could yank mousy Marty out of the IndyCar booth as well (for the love of God, DON'T replace him with Vince Welch), their broadcasts can actually draw some viewers. 174. 00andJoe posted: 08.01.2011 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco - Are you saying it'll be the Crown Royal 400? I presumed it would be the Brickyard 400 Presented By Crown Royal. 175. pit crewman posted: 08.01.2011 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man I'm tired of people complaining about Menard's Dad having money. Hey good for him. Those dollars bills in John Menard's pockets didn't help Paul hold that steering wheel, or run a single lap. He did it on from inside the car, and with the help of his pit crew. Money doesn't always guarantee you success (just ask Brendan Gaughan) SO talent has to be in there somewhere. 176. murb posted: 08.01.2011 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That is the one murb. That race took longer than some of the Dover races back when they were 500 miles." That's what I thought. I just couldn't remember if that race happened in '03 or '04. 177. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.02.2011 - 3:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In my opinion, Dale Jarrett is a good example of a driver who is vastly overrated because of his success in big races. Jarrett won six crown jewels, but never the Southern 500. Of his 32 career victories, only 10 came at driver's tracks. He was an above average driver, but that's about it. Without Yates horsepower he would have been a poor man's Greg Biffle." I couldn't agree more. If Yates weren't building awesome horsepower he still would have had a great career, I just think his win total would have been less inflated. I think Ernie Irvan would have done everything DJ did and more if he hadn't been injured and RYR kept him surrounded with an awesome team. "In 2000, Mayfield did lead 34 combined laps in his wins, but they were on 2 mile (California) and 2.5 mile (Pocono) tracks. Also Mayfield, despite his points, ended the year with 843 laps led." That season in my opinion, was as blatant feast or famine as I've seen since I started watching the sport in the mid-90's. I keep hearing about Geoff Bodine's 1994 season, but I wasn't watching the sport yet then so I can't make an extremely detailed post on that. But by 2000, I had very much gotten interested in the sport and was watching the races every single week so I can tell you just how good Mayfield was that year. He was in contention for several other wins (Summer Pocono race where he blew a tire on the last lap, Fall Darlington race where he led a lot of laps but crashed, Fall Dover where he won the pole and ran up front all race until the engine expired, Fall Charlotte where Bobby Labonte passed him in the final laps and he had to settle for second, Fall Rockingham where he won the pole and ONCE AGAIN led a lot of laps before having mechanical issues, Fall Atlanta where he led early and the engine blew just past lap 50) just to name a few. "I presumed it would be the Brickyard 400 Presented By Crown Royal." I would be really surprised if it isn't. 178. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.02.2011 - 7:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just like the asinine Richmond situations, Crown Royal is going to make it be the "Your Name Here 400 at the Brickyard." It will even have a stupid contest and will once again be for soldiers, cops, firefighters, etc. only. STUPID. Why not have the John Doe 500 at Daytona? RCR: DJ had several instances of blowing up while dominating the Southern 500. 179. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.02.2011 - 7:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the first time since 1996, there are fewer than 30 trucks on the entry list. There 9 instances of this in 1995, and one in 1996. 180. Anonymous posted: 08.02.2011 - 7:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sluttrick is the 3rd highest paid female athlete at $12,000,000, and she can't drive half as good as Landon Cassill! 181. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.02.2011 - 8:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was the 2004 spring race at Dover. It was 400 miles and took 4 hours and 7 minutes to complete. Not even the 5 and 1/2 hour Coke 600 in 2005 (which i had the pleasure of sitting through live) took longer per mile. RCRPenskeGuy, Bodine's 1994 season is hard to label. I wouldn't really call it "feast or famine" because he was fast almost every week. He just had a ton of motor and tire failures (he was sticking with Hoosier tires on their final NASCAR legs). He dominated a lot of events only to suffer a failure towards the end. He led over 1700 laps, but had an obscene number of DNFs. I think a lot of the resentment towards Menard comes from the fact that his built in family sponsorship allowed him to hang around and keep getting rides when anyone else would have been sent packing a long time ago. To his credit he kept working at getting better and earned this victory. But he never had to struggle for a ride because he always had his Dad's money behind him. When DEI courted him, when Yates grabbed him, when he survived the the Evernham and Petty merger/bloodbath, and when RCR picked him up, they were more after his Dad's money, which was a package deal that included Paul, than they were after Paul. This has allowed him to gain a ton of valuable experience which led to a high profile victory. He did a great job and has come a long way. But the fact is much better drivers have had their career hit the skids, while Paul's most certainly would have were it not for his father's bottomless barrell of money. This victory just feels bought to me. But at least Paul is a good guy. 182. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 9:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Steve (#173), if you read post #44, you will read about many of the trials and tribulations that John Menard had suffered through trying to win Indy, as well as some of his team's accomplishments, including two IRL titles. And RCRanmdPenskeGuy, can you or anyone else actually be serious about Dale Jarrett as a driver. Not only do I not think he was overrated, but I think he was actually UNDERRATED. Sure, he had Robert Yates horsepower for most of his career, but so did numerous other drivers that didn't fare nearly as well. And let's not forget, and I mentioned this before, that Jarrett outraced none other that Dale Earnhardt, Sr. for his first TWO Daytona 500 victories, and race car drivers didn't come any tougher than him, and he beat him heads-up in the Daytona 500 twice. Then, speaking of Yates power, has everybody here forgotten about Jarrett's first Cup victory at Michigan in 1991? For the record, he was driving for the Wood Brothers, which put him at a disadvantage to start with. Add to that the fact that he was racing AGAINST the Robert Yates car with Davey Allison, who was as good at Michigan as he was anywhere else, if not better. and yet, in a final sprint to the finish, he was somehow able to beat Allison, who had a much faster car to the finish to claim his first victory. Sure, pit strategy put him up front, but he had to race against the fastest car in the field, while driving an inferior car, and he still managed to pull out the win. And let's not forget that Jarrett won at least once on all three current short tracks, as well as Phoenix, where he made up a full lap under green in 1997, Dover (1998), and Darlington in the old spring 400-mile race in two consecutive years (1997-'98). You don't win those races by just having the strongest engine. You win those particular races because you're one of the best drivers i nthe sport. Sure, Jarrett didn't pull the emotional strings, like Earnhardt, Wallace, Gordon, and Johnson did (or do), nor was he flashy like Earnhardt, Wallace, Gordon, or Johnson, but he belongs right up there with them as one of the most competent and most successful champions of the last 20-25 years. In fact, I'd put him, in his prime, above most of the other top drivers of today (Gordon, Johnson, Tony Stewart, Mark Martin, and maybe Kyle Busch being the exceptions.) Yes, I'd put him ahead of drivers such Kurt Busch, Carl Edwards, Kevin Harvick, and Matt Kenseth when he was at his best. Heck, even the legendary Cale Yarborough chose Jarrett to be his first full-time driver in 1989. The fact that Yarborough chose Jarrett to replace him should speak volumes right there. 183. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 9:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you're right about Bodine dominating several races in 1994, but that was due to having Hoosier tires. In the races where te Hoosier tires were the dominant tire that year, Bodine dominated because he was the only driver on Hoosier tires that was capable of winning that season. For instance, Bodine dominated the July race at Pocono so thoroughly, that there were only about six or seven other cars on the same lap when that race ended, which seems impossible, and several of those were on Hoosier tires. And remember that his tires were so dominant at North Wilkesboro in the fall race, that he actually lapped the ENTIRE field, the last time that has, or ever will happen in a Cup race. The true test of how strong his team actually was actually didn't happen until the following year, when everyone was on equal tires, and his team was a total flop in 1995. 184. Scott B posted: 08.02.2011 - 10:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 181 pretty much sums up my feelings about Paul Menard. It also answers the question about why Regan Smith's win a Darlington had a different feel to it. Smith was a victim of the Ginn fiasco, odd man out at DEI, went to and stuck with Furniture Row's underdog operation, was denied a Talladega win on the "out of bounds" ruling... pretty much the opposite of Menard's situation, there was never any safety net for Regan and his career could have dead ended with any one of those setbacks. 185. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) While it's true that Paul Menard got to the Cup series with a great deal of help from his father's money, a win at Indy should quiet, once and for all, those that say he doesn't belong in the Cup series. It reminds me of something that was said on the 1981 Indianapolis 500 broadcast by Jim McKay and Jackie Stewart about Josele Garza, a Mexican driver who got to the top rung of American racing due to his family's money (he was 19 years old when he ran in that race). Stewart mentioned that while Garza was leading that race, which he did for 13 laps that day during exchanges of pit stops, Stewart said that you don't lead the Indianapolis 500 if you don't have talent, to which McKay said "it's as simple as that". And during the time that he led that race, the next three in the race were the three dominant drivers of that race, Bobby Unser, Mario Andretti, and Gordon Johncock, all of whom had won the race, and two of which would win the races that year (Unser), and the next (Johncock). The third (Andretti) is considered by many, myself included, as the greatest driver in auto racing history. 186. Hal posted: 08.02.2011 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If one bad race is gonna scare half the crowd off, then questions need to be asked. There are many variables that go into racing, any week could potentially be a disaster, and it happens. That is why I put no stock into the whole "it's the tire debacle of 2008's fault" theory. If that is what has put them off for good, then that is somewhere we don't need to be." WTF is your problem with Indianapolis? You have some kind of vendetta against the track and its fans. I don't see you complaining about any other tracks that are drawing less than 100,000 and there are a lot of them. NASCAR isn't going back to North Wilkesboro or Rockingham, get used to it. If you don't like the direction the sport is heading, find something else to do on Sundays. There are plenty of loyal fans in Indianapolis that support this race no matter what. This race isn't going anywhere, it's a marquee race, and NASCAR and IMS are committed to it. I think you're just jealous of the way we treat racing in Indianapolis. Sorry that your local cookie cutter track isn't treated with the same reverence by drivers the world over. 187. Anonymous posted: 08.02.2011 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul menard still spent two full years in the nationwide series honing his skills, he isn't as talented as drivers like Stewart, Gordon or busch. But he paid his dues in the nationwide series, I do recall him being one of the best full time nationwide only drivers. In 2006 he would have been nationwide champ (under the current rules) if it wasn't for harvick, Edwards, bowyer, Hamlin and yeley racing for the title too. 188. 18fan posted: 08.02.2011 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bodine wouldn't have lapped the field at North Wilkesboro in 1994 if a caution didn't come out when he hadn't made a pit stop but everyone else had. If it had cycled out and then the caution flew, about 3 or 4 cars, including Bodine, would've been on the lead lap. 189. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.02.2011 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And remember that his tires were so dominant at North Wilkesboro in the fall race, that he actually lapped the ENTIRE field" I was at that race. I was also there when he won the caution free race there. That was on a Monday, Dad let me stay out of school and took me there. He was really good at Wilkesboro, whether in the 5 car, the 15, or the 7. "pretty much the opposite of Menard's situation, there was never any safety net for Regan and his career could have dead ended with any one of those setbacks." I agree. Like I said, I have nothing personal against Paul, he is a good guy. But he has always been guaranteed a ride because of his family. That is why I just have an empty feeling about the outcome of this one. "Paul menard still spent two full years in the nationwide series honing his skills, he isn't as talented as drivers like Stewart, Gordon or busch. But he paid his dues in the nationwide series, I do recall him being one of the best full time nationwide only drivers." It is true they made sure he had adequate time to develop before going to Cup. But, unlike people like Regan or Brad, he always was going to have a chance because of the money he brought. I just can't help but wonder how many drivers that have fallen by the wayside could have done better than Paul has done if they were given the same safety net he has. Again, he earned this win on this day, but did he earn all the days that led to this moment? 190. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.02.2011 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "WTF is your problem with Indianapolis?" I have no "problem" with Indianapolis or the racing fans in that area. The simple fact is that is open wheel country. They love Indy cars, and are ambivalent about NASCAR. And that is OK. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is NASCAR's insistance on continuing to race at Indy despite the sharp waning of interest in this event. And now they are taking away from other areas of NASCAR (in this case, IRP) to "rejuvenate" the Brickyard. This reminds me of Fontana all over again when they insisted on shoving that track down our throats and taking fun traditions away to make it work, which it never did. Everybody is entitled to their preferences. Indianapolis prefers open wheel. That is perfectly OK. NASCAR needs to get out of the way. "You have some kind of vendetta against the track and its fans." Quite the opposite. I think the fans of the Brickyard would be happy if that track went back to just hosting one event per year. "I don't see you complaining about any other tracks that are drawing less than 100,000 and there are a lot of them." They didn't lose half of their attendance overnight. Yes, attendance is down everywhere, but as recently as 4 years ago, this track was packed just like is was every year since NASCAR began going there in 1994. At the same time of the year, in the same boiling temperatures. All at once about half of those people have quit showing up. That raises a red flag. When NASCAR and IMS collectively agree that they need to "rejuvenate the Brickyard", something is amiss. I think NASCAR has overstayed their welcome here and it is time to get out. "NASCAR isn't going back to North Wilkesboro or Rockingham, get used to it." Really? Ya don't say!!!! Of course they are not going back there. Has anyone said "Hey, let's move this date from Indy to Wilkesboro."? Of course not. And I will not "get used to it". Those tracks were taken in short sighted decisions that ultimately hurt the sport. And the exact same thing will happen with this new "Super Weekend" of "rejuvenating the Brickyard". It will probably provide an initial spike in attendance (but I wouldn't bet on it), NASCAR and the George family will pat each other on the backs, but the novelty will wear off and we will be back where we started, minus a fun weekend of good short track racing at IRP. Yet another net loss for NASCAR. "If you don't like the direction the sport is heading, find something else to do on Sundays." Lots of people have already done this, including about 130,000 people who used to spend one Sunday a year watching NASCAR at Indianapolis. "This race isn't going anywhere, it's a marquee race, and NASCAR and IMS are committed to it." That is the problem. Just like NASCAR and California Speedway were committed to hosting two races per year in "L.A." which was a disaster of bad racing, declining attendance, and fan unhappiness. Now trying to "rejuvenate the Brickyard" is going to lead to a disaster of bad racing, declining attendance, and fan unhappiness. "I think you're just jealous of the way we treat racing in Indianapolis. Sorry that your local cookie cutter track isn't treated with the same reverence by drivers the world over." Jealous of what? Indianapolis is almost universally considered to have the worst racing on the NASCAR circuit. And the closest track to me that NASCAR races on is Martinsville, hardly a cookie cutter. 191. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, let's not forget that Bodine was also good at North Wilkesboro in Junior Johnson's #11 car, which was almost a prerequisite if you wanted to drive for him. As for those continuing to bash the racing at the Brickyard. Well, it isn't that the track was not built for the big heavy stock cars. It's that it wasn't built fot the high speeds of today, because the IndyCars rearely put on a good race there, either. In fact, for those criticizing fuel mileage races, well the last two Indianapolis 500s have been decided, at least partially, by fuel mileage. The fact is, that once speeds got up to, and above 150 MPH in the early 1960s, the quality of racing there started to deteriorate. The races there from 1958-'61 were all incredible, but once the track was repaved after the 1961 race, and Parnelli Jones cracked the 150 MPH mark, the quality of racing went downhill fast. And when the rear engine cars brought the speeds up to 160 by 1956, and 170 in 1968, you just couldn't run close there any more, so single-file racing with the cars separating has actually been going on for 50 years. I actuall think that the stock cars, because they only run 170, compared to the 210-220 that the IndyCars run, actually have better racing than their IndyCar bretheren. The quality of racing with the IndyCars only went up for a couple of years when they went to wickers on the sides of the wings, which brought the element of drafting back into play, which resulted in a near-record of 28 lead changes in the 2005 race. As bad as you think that stock car racing at Indy is, IndyCars can't even get to within a second of each other without the aerodynamic push becoming a problem. That's why you've seen very little passing in the last three of four Indianapolis 500s. The only thing that will produce better racing at Indy and other tracks like it, is to dirty up the air, so that drafting will become more important. If you don't believe me, just watch the difference between the Truck and Cup series races at Pocono this weekend are likely to be. Because the Trucks knock such a big hole in the air, no one truck get get away from the others, producing ample opportunites to pass, while the Cup cars will just spread out all over the track. As bad of an idea as it was for restrictor plate racing, where you run wide open the entire time, I don't think it would be such a bad idea to put those roof spoilers back on the cars for unrestricted oval tracks of 2 miles or longer (i.e. Indy, Pocono, Michigan, and Auto Club Speedway), and if that works, then use it for the high-speed 1.5 mile ovals such as Charlotte, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Texas, Chicago, and Kansas. I think that is the only thing that will increase the competitveness of the races at those facilites. The roof spoilers will slow the cars down, while increasing the amount of drafting that will likely take place. And unlike at Daytona and Talladega, where the horsepower of the engines are restricted, the handling of the cars will still be important at the 1.5-2.5 mile tracks with those roof spoilers. 192. Smokefan05 posted: 08.02.2011 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) People need to understand this: Racing is a business, you do what is best for your bottom line. And business decisions DO NOT need to be decussed with fans, only those who share the $. Business decisions are made all the time, been that way when Bill Sr. started, Bill Jr. toke over and now with Brian France. Racing is a business. But every business decision is a right one tho. "As for those continuing to bash the racing at the Brickyard. Well, it isn't that the track was not built for the big heavy stock cars. It's that it wasn't built fot the high speeds of today, because the IndyCars rearely put on a good race there, either. In fact, for those criticizing fuel mileage races, well the last two Indianapolis 500s have been decided, at least partially, by fuel mileage. The fact is, that once speeds got up to, and above 150 MPH in the early 1960s, the quality of racing there started to deteriorate. The races there from 1958-'61 were all incredible, but once the track was repaved after the 1961 race, and Parnelli Jones cracked the 150 MPH mark, the quality of racing went downhill fast. And when the rear engine cars brought the speeds up to 160 by 1956, and 170 in 1968, you just couldn't run close there any more, so single-file racing with the cars separating has actually been going on for 50 years. I actuall think that the stock cars, because they only run 170, compared to the 210-220 that the IndyCars run, actually have better racing than their IndyCar bretheren. The quality of racing with the IndyCars only went up for a couple of years when they went to wickers on the sides of the wings, which brought the element of drafting back into play, which resulted in a near-record of 28 lead changes in the 2005 race." This right here pretty much sum it up about Indy and racing. But don't tell that to AOW folks, they will reject that statement. "As bad as you think that stock car racing at Indy is, IndyCars can't even get to within a second of each other without the aerodynamic push becoming a problem. That's why you've seen very little passing in the last three of four Indianapolis 500s. The only thing that will produce better racing at Indy and other tracks like it, is to dirty up the air, so that drafting will become more important." This sums it up too. "As bad of an idea as it was for restrictor plate racing, where you run wide open the entire time, I don't think it would be such a bad idea to put those roof spoilers back on the cars for unrestricted oval tracks of 2 miles or longer (i.e. Indy, Pocono, Michigan, and Auto Club Speedway), and if that works, then use it for the high-speed 1.5 mile ovals such as Charlotte, Atlanta, Las Vegas, Texas, Chicago, and Kansas. I think that is the only thing that will increase the competitveness of the races at those facilites. The roof spoilers will slow the cars down, while increasing the amount of drafting that will likely take place. And unlike at Daytona and Talladega, where the horsepower of the engines are restricted, the handling of the cars will still be important at the 1.5-2.5 mile tracks with those roof spoilers." I wouldn't be against them putting the wicker when they repave MIS but we will most likely see plates on the cars. I just had interesting thought, NASCAR moves the N'wide boys from IRP (which might still have a truck date btw) and it gets bashed. Yet the race at Montreal isn't going to happen next year because the Quebec government isn't going to front the moeny to host the race because they don't have enough money, yet goes un-bashed. My observation: I'm sensing alittle h-word here. Its just me tho. 193. murb posted: 08.02.2011 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's my opinion on IMS, for what it's worth. I completely have the utmost respect for all of its history. Some of the greatest races ever happened at that place in the 60s and 70s. But when it comes to Nascar, there's only really been two or three really good races there, from what I've seen. There was the first one in '94 that had Jeff and Ernie battling. I've watched several replays of that race (I didn't see the actual race because it was 4 months before I was born, haha), and it seemed like Ernie had Jeff's number until he cut that tire. It was a great race. The next race that seemed really good to me was in '03. There were many different leaders on the day. When you look at the box score and see that Harvick won from the pole, its deceiving because he really didn't dominate. Towards the end, it was Rusty, McMurray, Kenseth, and Robby Gordon swapping the lead between them. And then there was the big crash that wiped out Terry Labonte and several others, leading to the restart where Harvick got by McMurray for the winning pass. And '06 wasn't necessarily a great race, but Jimmie made a show out of it by coming back from that blown right front. I'm by no means a Jimmie fan, but that was the day I realized that he is a hell of a talent behind the wheel. And obviously since then we know what he has done. But back to Indy, it really hasn't been a great track for Nascar when it comes to great racing. Sure, you can talk all you want about the hollow grounds and Gasoline Alley and all of that. But if I had to choose between going to the Brickyard 400 (or the Your Name Here 400 or whatever it will be next year, haha), or a Nationwide or Truck race at IRP, I would choose IRP. And unfortunately it looks like IMS is gonna jack the Nationwide race from IRP, which is a travesty. The last original track for the Nationwide series goes to a boring, strung out place that will have about 3 or 4 lead changes. If it were the Cup series, it would be like if they took away a race from Martinsville and gave it to Kansas or something. What a travesty... 194. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While I'm on the topic of things to make the racing better, I know of a way to get rid of the two-car pods at the plate tracks almost instantaneously. The way to do that is to, first, cut about three inches off the bottom of the rear bumper, and then also cut an inch off the top of the rear spoiler. Cutting an inch off the top of the rear spoiler will mak the cars more difficult to drive in the corners, and cutting three inches off the bottom of the back bumper will stop the pushing of cars around the track, because the bumpers would no longer line up. The front bumper would now be lower than the back bumper. And as I mentioned in the last post, I believe the best way to make racing more competitve on the intermediate to large non-restrictor plate tracks is to dirty up the air by putting a spoiler on the roof of the cars. That will allow the cars to stay closer together for a longer period of time by bringing back the draft at the larger tracks. with the cars then able to draft more, you would see better racing at Indy, Pocono, Michigan, and Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, CA. And if that works, the next step should be using the roof spoiler on the high speed 1.5 mile tracks at Charlotte, Atlanta, Texas, Chicago, Kentucky, and Kansas. The roof spoilier was a disaster when it was used in 2001 because the engines were restricted, which meant the car's handling was unimportant. Part of the problem with the racing at these high speed tracks is the fact that drafting is no longer effective. All you have to do is look at the races at Pocono, Michigan, and Charlotte through most of the 1970s and early 80s, and look at the races at the same, or simliar facilities today. Sure there are more cars that finish, as well as more that finish on the lead lap, but the racing itself has been lackluster for more than a decade, and that will not change until the the aerodynamica of the cars change to allow more drafting to take place at these high speed tracks, like it was many years ago. 195. Talon64 posted: 08.02.2011 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just read all the comments today so all I'll say is that Paul Menard ended up with the 4th highest driver rating in the race, one of only 4 drivers to top 100. Actually, I was surprised to find that this is the 6th time this year he's had a driver rating over 100 in a race. His average DR is up to 82.6, ranking him 15th (14th in the standings). Also, I've heard some people comparing Menard's 2011 season and win to Mears in 2007 when he won the Coke 600. But HMS was BY FAR the dominant team in 2007 winning 18 of 36 races and finished 1-2-5 in the standings while Mears was 15th. RCR's no where near that this season and I think that Menard is equal with Bowyer for 2nd on the RCR totem pole in terms of performance this year. So Menard 2011 > Mears 2007 IMO. But I was really hoping Kenseth would win, considering he's finished 2nd at Indy twice and was right there with Gordon in terms of dominating the race. And it was nice to see Keselowski get another top 10. All I want is for him to finish top 20 in points this year and win another race. If that somehow gets him into the Chase then great, but he'd probably end up dead last in 12th so I'd rather see him climb up the top 20 rather than stink it up as a Chaser. 196. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, that big crash that took out Terry Labonte, Rusty Wallace, and about seven or eight others actually occurred in 2004 on a restart. Surprisingly, that the only really big crash ever to occur at the Brickyard 400. As for your comment about the racing at Indy in the 60s and 70s, it was actually one of the WORST eras for racing at Indy. As I mentioned, after the repaving of the track after the 1961 race, in which most of the main straightaway was covered with asphalt, leaving just a yard of bricks at the start-finish line, Parnelli Jones becname the first driver to break the 150 MPH barrier, and for the next decade, the racing at Indy was absolutely terrible. the races from 1958-'61 featured extremely close and competitve racing, but after the 1962 repaving, there wasn't a really good race at Indy until 1974, but you are right about the fact that there were some good races from 1974-'77. One of the factors that brought on the competition beginning in 1974 was the slowing of the cars that took place after the tragic 1973 race there . (The average speed for the entire field dropped about 10 MPH from 1973 to '74, due to turbochargers and aerodynamic rules changes.) The 1974, '75, and '77 races were the greatest Indy races of the post-1961 era to that point, and that occurred before they bunched up the field during caution periods, which didn't happen until 1979. By the way, the greatest Indianapolis 500 occurred in 1982, when Gordon Johncock beat Rick Mears in a race that also prominently featured A.J. Foyt and Tom Sneva. oddly, the finish of this Brickyard 400 was, in a way, eerily similar to 1982, when Rick Mears closed in on Johncock at more than a second per lap for the last 12 laps of the race after a botched pit stop. Jeff Gordon did the same to those running up front, gaining a second per lap over 12 laps, but like Mears in 1982, Gordon came up short ion this race. 197. murb posted: 08.02.2011 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As for your comment about the racing at Indy in the 60s and 70s, it was actually one of the WORST eras for racing at Indy. As I mentioned, after the repaving of the track after the 1961 race, in which most of the main straightaway was covered with asphalt, leaving just a yard of bricks at the start-finish line, Parnelli Jones becname the first driver to break the 150 MPH barrier, and for the next decade, the racing at Indy was absolutely terrible. the races from 1958-'61 featured extremely close and competitve racing, but after the 1962 repaving, there wasn't a really good race at Indy until 1974, but you are right about the fact that there were some good races from 1974-'77." Well I appreciate that correction then. Again, I wasn't around to see the racing then. I'm not really too familiar with IndyCar racing during that frame of time, so its nice to be educated on it a little bit... 198. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And, by the way, post #191 should have said that speeds got up to 160 by 1965 (ironically, the year the Wood Brothers were the winning pit crew), not 1956. As we know, the Wood Brothers will almost certainly never win again, as last Sunday's Brickyard 400 was probably their last close brush with victory. 199. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, if you had watched ESPN Classic during their week-long celebration of the Indy 500's centennial, you would have seen the 1974, 1975, and 1977 races for yourself. In fact, the entire 1975 race broadcast is on YouTube, if you want to watch it. Keith Jackson and Jackie Stewart handled the call in the booth, with Chris Economaki and sam Posey in the pits, and Chris Schenkel as the host. There were also taped interviews with A.J. Foyt, Salt Walther (who was still recovering from his devastating 1973 crash, and had taken up body building to help in the recovery process), as well as an interview with Johnny Rutherford's wife, Betty (Rutherford was the reigning Indy 500 champion at the time). 200. murb posted: 08.02.2011 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's good to know, cjs. I'll have to check out some of the full races some time. I've seen clips of some of the Indy 500s from back then. I have seen the clip of the Johncock-Mears race you mentioned before. And I've seen other stuff with Johnny Rutherford talking about his wins in the 500. So I'll have to see if I can find some full races from back then. Thanks!!! 201. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry, Murb, you were right about there being a big wreck near the end of the 2003 Brickyard 400 that involved Terry Labonte, though he did manage to finish on the lead lap in 16th position, which was actually one of his better finishes in this event. Sorry for that mistake, and I apologize for that. But Terry Labonte and Rusty Wallace were also involved in that massive ten-car pile-up on a restart in 2004. Others involved in the accident you mentioned were Joe Nemechek, Ricky Rudd, Jimmie Johnson, Mike Skinner, and Sterling Marlin. That happened just after Kevin Harvick had taken the lead for good opn a restart from a debris caution to become the first to win the event from the pole. 202. Talon64 posted: 08.02.2011 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) even though all the stats and facts already posted here are pretty amazing... Paul Menard becomes the 181st different winner in NASCAR Sprint Cup Series history, the 7th to win for Richard Childress Racing and 5th to get their first career win with the organization. He's tied his career high of top 10's in a season with 6 in only 20 races. His 4th top 5 of the year is tied for 8th (Kurt Busch, Denny Hamlin). The 4 first time winners this year are the most since 2007 which also had 4: Casey Mears in the Coke 600, Martin Truex Jr. at Dover the very next weekend, Juan Pablo Montoya at Infineon and Clint Bowyer at Loudon. Jeff Gordon gets his first runner-up finish and 10th top 5 in 18 career Indy starts (9.1 average finish, 2nd only to Tony Stewart's 8.1 all time). cjs3872: "Jeff Gordon, who finished second in this race for the first time (hard to believe, isn't it?), ties Dale Earnhardt, Sr. for fourth all-time and tops in the modern-era with his 281st top five finish, meaning his next top five, like his next win, will set a new modern record." With Pocono coming up, I'd say he's got a great shot at killing both birds with one stone. Also, Gordon needs to lead 37 more laps to crack 22,000 for his career; he's 1,167 back of Darrell Waltrip for 6th all time. Regan Smith gets just his 2nd career top 5 and 4th career top 10 in 115 starts, but they've all have come this season. It's the best finish by a single-car team in the Brickyard 400 since Bill Elliott finished 3rd as a driver/owner in 2000. Jamie McMurray gets his 1st top 5 of 2011 and just his 3rd top 10. At this point last season he had 6 top 5's, which included 2 win and 5 top 2 finishes. His drop in average finish of 6 spots from 2010 to 2011 is currently the 2nd largest of his career, only behind dropping 6.8 spots from 2005 (last year with Ganassi) to 2006 (first year with Roush). But this is Jamie's 3rd top 5 and 5th top 10 in 9 Indy starts (13.1 avg fin). Matt Kenseth becomes the 28th driver all time, 20th in the modern era, to reach 200 career top 10's in Cup and the 2nd this season (Bobby Labonte in the Daytona 500). Kenseth's the hottest driver in Cup right now, scoring the most points over the last 10 races with 1 win, 4 top 5's, 7 top 10's and a 7.8 average finish. He also picked up his 1st top 5 in the last 5 races at Indy but 5th in 12 starts overall. Tony Stewart has back-to-back top 10's for just the 3rd time this season and still has yet to string 3 in a row together. But it's his 3rd straight top 10 at Indy and 9th in 13 career starts. Greg Biffle gets his first top 10 in 7 races and his best finish in 12. It's his 4th consecutive top 10 at Indy, the longest active streak right now, and 5th in 9 starts (13.1 avg fin). Mark Martin gets just his 2nd top 10 in the last 9 races (dropped from 11th to 20th in points) and first top 20 finish in 4 races (had gone from 14th to 20th in pts before Indy). He hasn't finished worse than 11th at Indy with 2 top 5's, 5 top 10's and a 7.1 avg fin in the last 7 races (11 top 10's in 18 Indy starts overall, 12.9 avg fin). Brad Keselowski gets his 5th top 10 in the last 11 races, after just 2 in the previous 39. He has finishes of 19th and 9th in his first 2 Indy starts and got Penske Racing just their 12th top 10 in 33 Indy starts. Kyle Busch gets his 5th top 10 in 7 Indy starts (13.1 avg fin). Kevin Harvick has now gone 3 straight races without a top 10. In the last 10 races Carl Edwards is only 9th in points scored with 4 top 5's but only 5 top 10's and two finishes of 37th. After starting the year with 3 top 2 finishes in 4 races he only has 1 runner-up finish and no wins in the last 16 and has only led 2 laps in the last 5. Landon Cassill gets just his 2nd top 20 finish of the season, but both have come in the last 5 races. 203. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.02.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smokefan's post was sponsored by Brian France. Ol Brian himself couldn't have shit on the fans any better. And that is his specialty. 204. Talon64 posted: 08.02.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) oh and the "even though all the stats and facts already posted here are pretty amazing..." comment isn't sarcastic, there's a ton of good stuff already posted. Just thought I'd clear that up since it sounded kind of sarcastic to me. 205. murb posted: 08.02.2011 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ol Brian himself couldn't have shit on the fans any better. And that is his specialty." hahahaha!!!!!! 206. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.02.2011 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb, you summed up IMS nicely in my opinion. I should mention that I also have the utmost respect for the history of that track. It is where modern American auto racing as we know it started. The reason NASCAR ran 500 mile races on all their new speedways in the 50s and 60s? To be like Indy. Also, I am a little bit of an architecture geek, so I love the pagoda and I really like the double decked grandstands on the front stretch and Turn 1. They remind of those really old baseball parks like Fenway, Wrigley, Ebbetts Field, the Polo Grounds, the orginal Yankee Stadium (before the 1970s renovation), Tiger Stadium, etc. I just feel like NASCAR has run its course there. After all these years, history and tradition alone, no matter if it is a century's worth like IMS has, isn't enough. As I see it, we have 3 options: 1) reconfigure the track to handle the modern Indy cars and stock cars. That is complete and utter blasphemy, not an option. 2) Keep going down the dead end path they are going down with NASCAR. This is what is going to happen. And 3) just admit stock cars don't belong at IMS and move on. Extending the ballparks analogy, when football was first gaining national popularity, they played on baseball fields. Best example is the Giants playing at Yankee Stadium for a long time, but almost every team played on a baseball field. Hell, even the Packers would play a few games per year at Milwuakee's ballpark, something they still did as late as the mid 90s. They would wedge a football gridiron on those fields because they had the most seats and weren't generating enough money yet to build their own stadiums. They outgrew this because it just wasn't working out all that great (see the recent college bowl game debacle at Wrigley Field where both teams had to go in the same direction to avoid somebody slamming into the outfield brick wall), football needed their own playing fields. So once they really took off, they either built their own stadiums, or worse, built those awful "multi-purpose sports facilities", those ugly circular stadiums (or domes) that had a ton of seats, but were a million miles from the playing surface and lacked any character whatsoever (Three Rivers, The Vet, Riverfront, Fulton County, the Astrodome, etc). Basically the equivalent of NASCAR's modern cookie cutters. That is how I feel about NASCAR at the Brickyard. It just doesn't fit. Like a football field in an old baseball park. Charming to look at, not that great once competition begins. 207. Smokefan05 posted: 08.02.2011 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Smokefan's post was sponsored by Brian France. Ol Brian himself couldn't have shit on the fans any better. And that is his specialty." Well it also up to fans to not "shit" on the sport too. Both parties are guilty of it. 208. 00andJoe posted: 08.02.2011 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smokefan05: One reason IRP gets an outcry but Montreal doesn't isn't hypocricy, but rather that IRP is a traditional short track that has hosted NASCAR for years. Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, while a magnificent track that put on excellent events, is a road course that came on the scene recently in NASCAR and therefore has no tradition attached to it. Easy come, easy go. What they need to do is put Mansfield, Memphis, IRP and other tracks like that back on the schedule. You know, I can't help but wonder really if we're reaching the point where a "second series" at the B level might be able to make a reasonable goal of it - Busch/Nationwide is getting too expensive and concentrated on big tracks, the Trucks are likewise, and ARCA is, well, ARCA. A series with bodies similar to the current NNS cars (which are, in my opinion, the best-looking stock cars in decades) but with V-6 engines and concentrating on tracks 1.3 miles or less in length primarily in the south and southeast (i.e. the traditional homeland of stock car racing) might, just might, have a shot at doing something. 209. Eric posted: 08.02.2011 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, The Green Bay Packers no longer play Football games in Milwaukee is caused by the fact the Milwaukee Brewers actually wanted their next baseball stadium at the time (later to be known as Miller Park). I was teenager in Wisconsin when the Milwaukee Brewers made it clear. I matter of fact went to a Green Bay Packer game in Milwaukee as a high school freshmen in September 1993. Milwaukee County Stadium held 4 games a year for the Packers (1 Preseason game, 3 regular season games). The Milwaukee Brewers actually made that known way before the plans of funding Miller Park happened in the mid 90's. The Brewer made it known back around 1992 to 1994 time period if I recalled right. The Packers last game at Milwaukee County Stadium happened in December 1994 against the Atlanta Falcons. 210. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.02.2011 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "People need to understand this: Racing is a business, you do what is best for your bottom line. And business decisions DO NOT need to be decussed with fans, only those who share the $. Business decisions are made all the time, been that way when Bill Sr. started, Bill Jr. toke over and now with Brian France. Racing is a business. But every business decision is a right one tho." This is only the case when your racing series is owned and run the same way that NASCAR is. Which is not the only way, nor is it the best way, in my opinion. 211. Talon64 posted: 08.02.2011 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch tied Donnie Allison for 58th all time with 115 top 10's in Cup. Most interesting about that is they're also tied on starts with 242! So they've each got a 47.5% top 10 finishing %. 212. Eric posted: 08.02.2011 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smokefan05, Since you claimed every every business decision is a right one in terms of Brian France, how do you explain the failure of Auto Club Speedway having a race date on Labor Day Weekend and the dwindling attendance Auto Club Speedway had when it had 2 race dates a year then? 213. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.02.2011 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Montreal race is due to a government deal. IRP was NASCARs idea. 214. Eric posted: 08.02.2011 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to add something to what DaleSrFanForever said about the Montreal race is due to a government deal. Racing organization bodies including Nascar really don't much in say in if they continue to race in Montreal or not and that is the case for a very long time. Formula 1 didn't have a race in Montreal in 2009 and that was caused by the government matter of fact. 215. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2011 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the reason that Indy doesn't seem to be a good track for stock cars has nothing to do with the fact that the stock cars are heavier than IndyCars. The reason competition isn't good at Indy is because Indy was never desgined for the speeds they run today. After all, a good, competitve IndyCar race at IMS is hard to find any more, as well. Actually, I think stock cars put on a better show at Indy than IndyCars do, because they're going 50 MPH slower. Actually, the quality of racing at IMS deteriorated in 1962 when, on a newly resurfaced track, Parnelli Jones broke the 150 MPH barrier. The racing in the four years prior to that had been the best in the speedway's history. but 1962 put an ned to all that. By 1965, the cars were going 160 MPH, and they were going 170 just three years after that in 1968, and in 1973, they were pushing 200. The cars, even back in the mid-1960s, were no longer able to race close to each other due to the rapidly increasing speeds. But I think racing at Indy and other speedways can be saved with just a couple of simple aerodynamic changes to dirty the air around the cars. After all, the only really good racing seen in the Indianapolis 500 in recent years took place when the rules makers put tiny wickers on each side of the rear wing, which brought drafting back as an important factor in the Indianapolis 500, for the first time in decades. In fact, Sam Hornish would never have been able to make that last moment pass of Marco Andretti to win the 2006 Indianapolis 500, if he had not had the effect of the draft from Andretti's car. I think what NASCAR should do is use spoiler on the roof, similar to what they did back in 2001 at the plate tracks. They should first use it on the 2 and 2.5 mile tracks that don't require restrictor plates. That would mean Indy, along with Pocono, Michigan, and Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, CA. The roof spoiler would bring back drafting by punching a bigger hole in the air, allowing the cars to stay much closer together for a longer period of time. If you don't agree with me, then just look at how much better the Truck race at Pocono will be this weekend than the Cup race will be, due to the big hole the trucks will punch in the air. There's no possible way for one truck to pull away from the rest of the field, because of the big hole they punch in the air, so they won't spread out like the Cup cars will on Sunday. On Sunday, the Cup cars will spread all over the track in a matter of just two or three laps, because there's no effect from the draft. The same is true at Indy, Michigan, and Auto Club Speedway. The draft at those kinds of tracks is non-existent anymore. Then after that, NASCAR should institute the roof spoilers on all the high speed 1.5 mile tracks. Those tracks are, of course, Charlotte, Atlanta, Texas, Kentucky, Kansas, Chicago, and Las Vegas. Aerodynamics and the non-existent effect of the draft is why we are seeing a lack of competitve racing of virtually all of the speedways, not just Indy. Bringing back the draft will make racing exciting again, even at tracks known for boring racing. 216. 00andJoe posted: 08.02.2011 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alternatively, we could just go to squarer cars - the new NNS cars are a good step in that direction. They're excellent looking and they're, even with the Cup drivers, putting on better shows than the Cup races these days. Hopefully the 2013 Cup car will continue the boxy trend... 217. murb posted: 08.02.2011 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Alternatively, we could just go to squarer cars - the new NNS cars are a good step in that direction. They're excellent looking and they're, even with the Cup drivers, putting on better shows than the Cup races these days. Hopefully the 2013 Cup car will continue the boxy trend..." I've noticed this too. One example of the NNS car producing better races have been at the plate tracks this year. It seems like the NNS cars work better in the two car tandem than the current Cup cars. I thought the two NNS races this year at Daytona were stellar... 218. Anonymous posted: 08.02.2011 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i wish Brian France had a page on this site for us to leave lots of negative comments on. Ahhhh, its fun to dream 219. 00andJoe posted: 08.02.2011 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A question for the Webmaster: would it be possible to tweak the site code so that if a driver has DNQs in a series but no starts, the DNQs will show on their driver page? 220. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.03.2011 - 2:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And RCRanmdPenskeGuy, can you or anyone else actually be serious about Dale Jarrett as a driver." The thing with that is, I've looked very carefully at certain segments of his career where I think more could have been achieved. In 1995, when he first took the #28 ride he ran decently but struggled in a lot of races, although he did get a win at Pocono. That was just one year removed from Ernie Irvan dominating the first 2/3 of the Cup tour and being within striking distance of points leader Dale Earnhardt before his injury. I'll let everyone else draw their own conclusions on this, but it wasn't until RYR formed a second team for 1996 with DJ that he was finally surrounded with great people and became known as a dominator. Then there was 2003-2005, where RYR started to fade away but Elliott Sadler of all people scored just as many wins and outperformed DJ in the points during that time frame. Again, I'll let everyone else draw their own conclusions. I'm definitely not trying to take anything away from Jarrett, I still look at his career and see greatness written all over it. Even a simply good driver wouldn't have managed to put up the numbers he did, but there are drivers like Irvan who I think would have accomplished even more if, like I said earlier hadn't been injured, kept up his matured driving style he seemed to harness in 1994 and had he been surrounded by DJ's 1996-2001 RYR team. 221. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.03.2011 - 2:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) While we have had such a long discussion about IMS, I might as well contribute something. Every time I see Indianapolis Motor Speedway from any camera glance (even an air blimp camera), I think of a racing coliseum for Indy Cars. Quite honestly, it was never built for stock cars and it will be a while (if ever) before stock cars can adapt to the track. They will definitely have plenty of time and opportunities, with NASCAR moving over IRP's Nationwide date to IMS. 222. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.03.2011 - 7:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason NASCAR stinks at Indy, Pocono, Michigan, and any road course is because those tracks were designed for IndyCars. NASCAR, seeing their inferiority at Phoenix, is now redoing the track so that their cars can actually make the corners without wrecking, and it will keep IndyCar away from there. For years, NASCAR has said IndyCar can only run as a SUPPORT series to the Cup cars on Thursday night if IndyCar is to run at Phoenix. 223. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 7:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, NicoRosbergFan, the problem with the racing at Indy is the extreme speeds. Have you seen any of the most recent runnings of the Indianapolis 500? IndyCars can't race competitvely there any more, either, due to the extreme speeds. Any time a car gets to within about second of a car ahead of them (which is about 20-25 car lengths at the speeds they run), it starts to get an aerodynamic push. While my idea of dirtying the air may not completely solve that problem, it would allow the cars to draft better, which by itself would lead to better racing. After all, the racing at Michigan and Pocono was once among the best on the entire circuit, because the cars could use the draft to stay closer together. After all, the 2005 Indianapolis 500 was one of the greatest race in the history of the track, and the rules makers putting small wickers on both sides of the rear wings was what made that race so great, because it brought the draft back to the Indy 500. Without that, it would have been just as boring as almost any other race at Indy. While the stock cars dont race as close as I'd like at that facility, they actually do put on a better race than the Indy cars do, but would put on a much better race if the air was dirtied up so the draft could be effective again. And not just at Indy, but all the high-speed non-RP tracks. Just watch the difference between the Truck race and the Cup race this weekend at Pocono, and you will see exactly what I mean. The Truck race there last year was one of the best in the history of the series, while the Cup race was just another strung out affair, and this year will be no different. The reason is that the Trucks punch such a big hole in the air, that no one trucks can get very far away from the others at any time, because the trailing trucks can use the draft so easily. Because if that, and the long straightaways, they will be able to use the slingshot pass that drafting allows to pass at will, with the lead truck being almost powerless to stop it, short of blocking viciously. 224. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 8:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRandPenskeGuy, you have to consider that one of the reasons that Jarrett struggled through most of the 1995 season was the fact that was driving a Ford, even if was one of the best on the circuit, because Chevrolet had such a HUGE aerodynamic advantage, it really didn't give any of the Ford teams a chance to shine that entire season. Jarrett's was actually one of the better Fords, but for most of the season, none of them were competitve with the Chevrolets, especially on the bigger tracks (in fact, no Ford finished on the lead lap in the spring Atlanta race, for example). Actually, Jarrett more than held his own with the other Ford teams, which were better than the rebuilding Yates team, which struggled a little more than the other Ford teams, because they were in the process of expanding for 1996, so their focus was split anyway. Then there was your comment about how Jarrett began to fade in 2003-'05, especially in comparison to Elliott Sadler. Remember that Jarrett was pushing 50 years old at the time, while Sadler was still in his 20s, so that was a definate factor in his struggles, as there have been only slightly more than a handful of drivers that have been competitve at NASCAR's highest level at that age. The thing about Dale Jarrett that needs to be understood is that, like his father Ned, Dale Jarrett wasn't flashy about how he did things like Earnhardt and Gordon were, or Johnson, Edwards, and Kyle Busch are, but rather, he was a consistent driver that got results. He only cared about leading the last lap, instead of leading every lap he could and using the car up to that end. 225. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.03.2011 - 10:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs3872: You hit the nail on the head. Cup cars can't draft anymore. Never thought of that, but NASCAR's are definitely made for tracks like Bristol, Richmond, Martinsville, and even something like Delaware, Ontario Speedway. 226. Smiff_99 posted: 08.03.2011 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, all this talking about drafting at the intermediates (and how the 'aerodynamics era' contributed to it) can be summed up right here. Michigan International Speedway Average Number of Lead Changes thru 29 races (1969-1983): 30.93 Average Number of Lead Changes last 55 races (1984-2011): 18.41 227. 00andJoe posted: 08.03.2011 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hm...what series is Scott Speed registered for points in, I wonder? And intersting factoid: T.J. Bell has moved up to second in the rookie standings following this event. 228. Frank posted: 08.03.2011 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I have to argue your point that speed is the reason why racing is worse. Do you know definition of racing? I tell you - competition is speed. Forget aerodynamics for a moment and look deeper - speed is danger and danger is scary. At IMS you have no gravel trap or ridiculous for any true racing fan modern f1-style asphalt escape zone. You have walls and I doubt that you will think "oh, thanks to SAFER barriers, hitting will be not so dangerous" when your car will be about to loose control. At Indy it is extremely important to accelerate from every corner, especially 2 and 4, as fast as possible. And faster means closer to the wall - which is risky. If you are technically unable to go wide open with confidence that you will make the corner (I mean, who thought that it is possible to crash stock car in qualifying in Talladega?) - you have to take risk to be quick. So the reason why IRL sucks Indy 500 most times is that cars are too slow. Remember 1995? That was heck of a race - last true 500. Closer to 240 entering the corner and no way to go flat out. Balancing that thin line that differs good driver from great racer. Passing are born when driver in pursuit makes the corner exit faster. And real racer will make it more often than just good. Gadgets like Handford device, in my opinion, aren't fair because it gives advantage to the car behind. And you need to be 2nd on the final lap - for sure you've seen now classic CART races at Michigan and remember how big advantage gives draft. My medicine for IRL is +10mph. For stock cars there is no medicine, because even classic cars (I mean, before COT) had dirty-air issue there. But I like idea someone told in this discussion to bring IMS to the Chase - value of points adds excitement for fans even if there is nothing interesting on the track. Moreover, there is no such type of track in cookie-cutting-chase. P.S. I can't take why some people are sad about Terry Labonte's s&p. He announced his last Cup race in Texas, fall of 2006, when his beautiful daughter gave the Command, almost 5 years ago ! It's not for Man, to take his own words back... 229. Frank posted: 08.03.2011 - 12:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *competition in speed, of course. But misspelling looks nice also 230. Cooper posted: 08.03.2011 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper's interesting fact of the race: --This is the lowest Purse for the Brickyard 400 since 2004. You don't have to look this up because I already did. 231. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, and if you remember, the 1995 race had some of the worst and most infamous incidents in history. Or have you forgotten, Frank, that there was an absolutely horrific crash in the first corner that year that took seven cars out of the race and nearly killed Stan Fox, or that 1995 was the year of the infamous incident in which Scott Goodyear passed a pace car that was going just 72 MPH on the final restart, or that '95 was the year in which the pace car driver didn't even know who the leader was, which resulted in Jacques Villeneuve passing it twice, for which he was penalized one lap for each time he passed the pace car. There were also three incidents in which the leader either crashed just after being passed (Jimmy Vasser and Scott Pruett), or crashed trying to evade another car (Michael Andretti in an incident eerily similar to what happened in the final turn of this year's race). They are going back to turbochargers next year for IndyCars, which is a BIG mistake on the ovals, if you ask me. I believe thaere may soon be a repeat of what happened in 1973 or 1992 at Indy, which were both years littered with disaster and even tragedy. In fact, the last five years that a driver has been killed at Indy during the month of May, it came during times of significant, if not big, speed increases. Those years would be 1972 (Jim Malloy), 1973 (Art Pollard and Swede Savage), 1982 (Gordon Smiley), 1992 (Jovy Marcelo), and 1996 (pole sitter Scott Brayton). Also, watch the 1988 Daytona 500 broadcast, as just before Richard Petty has his crash, the commentators talk about this very thing, about how slowing the cars down actually made for BETTER racing, and took the edge off SOME of the risk, while the 10 MPH decrease was barely noticeable to theose watching. 232. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And NicoRosbergFan, the Ontario Motor Speedway was a wider duplicate of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway that opened in 1970 and ran it's first NASCAR race in 1971, which was the 1,000th race in the history of NASCAR's top series. That race was won by A.J. Foyt, driving for the Wood Brothers, who will probably never seriously compete for a win again, as the Brickyard 400 was their last real shot, as Trevor Bayne was fourth when he had to pit with seven laps left. By the way, if Carl Edwards leaves Roush, it's still reported that Ricky Stenhouse would take over that ride, with Bayne still stuck with a part-time deal in the #21 car, if he isn't released all together. Remember, he doesn't have a contract after this year with the Wood Brothers, or maybe even Roush. I predict that, if Bayne doesn't have a full-time, fully sponsored deal next year, that he will be in a top Chevrolet in 2013, possibly with either Stewart-Haas Racing or Earnhardt-Ganassi Racing, in a third car for either team, since none of their current drivers are going anywhere anytime soon. 233. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.03.2011 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The biggest deal with the cars to make racing better is they need to not be so reliant on front downforce. The cars rely on the air pressing down on the front of the cars, sealing the nose really close to the ground, preventing air from going underneath the car, and compressing the components of the front suspension. The cars need to have a big boxy front end that is way off the ground. That way there wouldn't be such a disparity between cars in clean air and those behind them. 234. 00andJoe posted: 08.03.2011 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs - I believe NRF meant Delaware Speedway in Ontario, Canada, not Ontario Motor Speedway. Also, this just in: they've thrown in the towel on Nashville Superspeedway. 235. 00andJoe posted: 08.03.2011 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski was hospitalized today after he crashed his Penske Racing Dodge into the Turn 1 wall during road-course testing at Road Atlanta. Penske Racing issued the following statement after the crash: "Brad Keselowski was involved in an accident today at Road Atlanta while testing. He was transported to an Atlanta area hospital for further evaluation. Brad was able to exit the car under his own power, but as a precautionary measure was taken to the hospital. "Penske Racing will provide further communication as details become known." After the crash, Keselowski posted on Twitter: "Looks like I'll be ok to race this weekend. Blue deuce, not so much. I'll keep u posted." (from SPEED) 236. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.03.2011 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The X Rays on Brad feet are ok, but they are swollen like hell. How do I know this? Because he actually posted pictures of them on Twitter. At least he prefaced it with "not for the squeamish". Luckily, as a paramedic, I have seen much worse. http://yfrog.com/kivg6ccj Just a reminder, it is truly not for the squeamish. 237. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, I am then mistaken then about the racetrack in question. Also, I mentioned the demise of Nashville on the Kroger 200 comments page (#78), due to the putrid attendance (29,000 for the Truck and Nationwide race combined). I did think, however, that they would be racing at Nashville for one more year, but shut the track down after the 2012 races there, so that news came a year early, if you ask me, but it was hardly surprising, since there are races in Kentucky, Bristol, Texas, and Indy (moving to the speedway in 2012, at long last). with the demise of Nashville, and the probable demise of Montreal, that means there may be three open dates, so IRP might fill one of them, though the facility badly needs to be upgraded, and I doubt the NHRA, who owns IRP, would ever do that, since racing on the oval may take away from the drag strip at IRP. But my comments about the Wood Brothers not ever competing for a win again, and Trevor Bayne possibly being in a Chevrolet in 2013, if he doesn't get a full-time, fully sponsored ride in 2012 stands, and it would be a travesty for Bayne to not be able to defend his Daytona 500 win, because he doesn't have a ride for the 2012 Daytona 500. He doesn't even have a contract for 2012. Remember, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. would probably get the #99 Cup ride if Carl Edwards leaves, with Bayne remnaining part-time in the #21 car, if he isn't released all together, which I still think is a distinct possibility. Remember what happened to Justin Allgaier with Penske last year. Penske wanted to keep him, but didn't have a sponsor lined up for him, so he let him go. 238. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since Brad Keselowski's crash at road Atlanta was serious enough to hospitalize him, and if he does have to wear protection for his feet, that means there may be a good chance that the #22 car may be withdrawn from this Saturday evening's race at Iowa, or at least that Keselowski may not be able to run in that car. Why Penske continues to let him run the car in non-companion races is beyond me, when he has Sam Hornish, Jr, that he could use. He might be able to use Parker Kligerman in similar instances, but that's not an option this week, due to the fact that he's racing Keselowski's #29 truck at Pocono the same day as the NNS rac at Iowa Speedway. That means there may be one less Cup driver for the NNS-championship eligible drivers to have to worry about, though there will still be Carl Edwards to worry about for those drivers. 239. murb posted: 08.03.2011 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully Brad will be okay for Pocono. Honestly, this might be a good omen for him because he was supposed to go back and forth from Pocono to Iowa. Now hopefully someone else (Hornish?) will be in the 22 for Iowa. I think Brad is a hell of a driver. I've certainly never agreed with everything he's done, but he's got unbelievable talent. As for Nashville going away, I'm sort of mixed. I feel bad for the race fans of that area. That place always seems to be packed full of fans, unlike the places out here on the west coast. (Fontana, Vegas, etc.) And that guitar trophy is bar none the coolest trophy in motorsports in my opinion. But on the other hand, you have to admit that the last handful of races at Nashville have been GOD AWFUL. So hopefully this will open up some new opportunities for new tracks to come in to NNS and Trucks. I've heard rumors that the Trucks might be going back to Rockingham next year (taking IRP's date), so that would be incredible. But for NNS, I really hope that a couple of short tracks could get some races. Call me crazy, but I would love to see NNS go back to Martinsville. 240. murb posted: 08.03.2011 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But my comments about the Wood Brothers not ever competing for a win again, and Trevor Bayne possibly being in a Chevrolet in 2013, if he doesn't get a full-time, fully sponsored ride in 2012 stands, and it would be a travesty for Bayne to not be able to defend his Daytona 500 win, because he doesn't have a ride for the 2012 Daytona 500. He doesn't even have a contract for 2012. Remember, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. would probably get the #99 Cup ride if Carl Edwards leaves, with Bayne remnaining part-time in the #21 car, if he isn't released all together, which I still think is a distinct possibility. Remember what happened to Justin Allgaier with Penske last year. Penske wanted to keep him, but didn't have a sponsor lined up for him, so he let him go." I honestly think Trevor does need to explore other options. It seems blatantly clear to me that Jack has a man-crush on Stenhouse, so whatever Cup ride opens up over there first, whether its Carl's or the 6 or whoever, is obviously gonna go to Stenhouse. Personally, I believe Trevor is way more ready for Cup at this point. Sure, he hasn't run really well in the rest of his races for the 21 this year. But you have to keep in mind, he's driving for the Wood Brothers. They haven't been good in over 15 years. Sure, you can say, "But it's Roush equipment." So is the RPM stuff, and while they've had impressive runs, they haven't exactly lit the world on fire either. And I think they have two drivers with a hell of a lot of potential in AJ and Marcos. I think the best situation for Trevor would be Stewart Haas' third team. But now, they've already basically signed Danica it looks like, so that's out the window. I'm a Chevy guy so I would love to see Trevor climb into one at some point in his career, haha 241. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, the fans at Martinsville might disagree with you on what the coolest trophy in NASCAR is, with the grandfather clock they award to the winner of their races, but I also think it would be a bad idea for he NNS to return to Martinsville. After all, they tried that a few years ago, and it was an utter disaster. And if the #22 is not withdrawn from the NNS race, it would probably be Hornish behind the wheel of that car, since he already drives for Penske. Parker Kligerman might also be an option, but that's out of the question this week, since he's racing Keselowski's #29 truck at Pocono the same day as the Iowa NNS race this weekend. Hornish would be the option to replace Keselowski, since the #12 car in not entered for the race at Iowa. If the #12 had been entered, the #22 would almost certainly have to be withdrawn, if Keselowski can't go. 242. murb posted: 08.03.2011 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Murb, the fans at Martinsville might disagree with you on what the coolest trophy in NASCAR is, with the grandfather clock they award to the winner of their races, but I also think it would be a bad idea for he NNS to return to Martinsville. After all, they tried that a few years ago, and it was an utter disaster." That's true, I did forget about the grandfather clock. As for them returning to Martinsville, that was just an idea. There's plenty of other places they could go (hopefully short tracks/short ovals.) I'm just saying I think it would be cool if they went back. 243. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, of course, Trevor is more ready for Cup, considering what he's been through this year, and how he's handled it. He will have also run 18 cup races at season's end, if he qualifies for every one he's scheduled to run, not to mention he's eligible for the All-Star Race next year, which the Woods probably won't run. Your point about Danica locking up the third Stewart-Haas car may be true, but I also mentioned Earnhardt-Ganassi as a possible place if Bayne winds up in a Chevrolet, and there are connections between Bayne and EGR. First, there's Jamie McMurray, who, like Bayne, has also raced for Roush, winning twice for him. (And he's had some very unkind comments about Roush, even calling him a "cold person" in a national TV interview.) Then, there's Donnie Wingo, Bayne's Cup crew chief, who was a crew chief at EGR for a number of year before moving to Roush to work with McMurray, who he had worked with at Ganassi prior to that. Wingo seems to be especially impressed about Bayne's ability to diagnose what the car is doing, saying he's about as good as anyone he's had at diagnosing a car's handling, and he's had drivers such as McMurray, Juna Montoya, and Geoff Bodine, among many others. But as for your comments about the "man-crush" roush has on Stenhouse, I think it has more to do with the time and money he has spent developing Stenhouse over the last four years, but I think Bayne is better suited to Cup, because of his patience. He even admitted that he backed off more than once during the Brickyard 400, because he thought things were getting to wild for him, much like he did in the Daytona 500, when he backed out about 10 times for that very reason. And if it hadn't have been for fuel, he might well have won the Brickyard 400 this past Sunday. Imagine a part-time driver for a single-car team winning the two biggest races of the season? 244. Frank posted: 08.03.2011 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I remember that crash on the start of the 1995 Indy 500 of course. But it has nothing with top speeds - because it's a start! And when you're trying to go 3-wide in T1 at IMS this could happen. Judgement fail has nothing with speeds and point I am talking about. Goodyear just made rookie mistake. "There were also three incidents in which the leader either crashed just after being passed (Jimmy Vasser and Scott Pruett), or crashed trying to evade another car (Michael Andretti in an incident eerily similar to what happened in the final turn of this year's race)." Exactly! This is that fine line only best can walk on but not over. Michael usually couldn't, huh. I also now that most fatal accidents of Indy 500 happen during practice/qual rather than race. Because driver is targeted to go as fast as car allows and trim it out a lot, sometimes too muchâ?¦ By the way, modern (oh, they are almost 9 years old) IRL Dallaras are not safe too - look how easy they are getting airborne. Just couple notable examples could be Mario in 2003 and Simona DiSilversto this year. Remember, ChampCars (with turbo) didn't flyaway even after touching wheels. About slowing down - was it you who said on this page that trimming out rear spoiler will break 2-car drafting? But they will go faster! 10 mph couldn't be noticed by spectator but drivers feel it very well. So, racing is changing. 245. Frank posted: 08.03.2011 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I am glad to see that your opinion about Trevor Bayne changing to better side. Can't believe you could say this: "of course, Trevor is more ready for Cup" month ago. 246. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And, murb, Trevor really hasn't run that badly in the #21 car this year, but one problem they have is a lack of personnel that really hurts them when it comes to pit stops. If they are competitve with the top 15 cars, when they pit, the lose a ton of time because of their slower pit stops, which they are unable to make up. sure, he ran in the back most of the Brickyard 400, but that was because he made, I believe, three unscheduled pit stops to remove grass from the grill, and then every time he started moving up, he voluntarliy backed out because he thought things were getting too wild for him, but at the end of the race, he actually had one of the faster cars, and if he did not have to pit for fuel, he might very well have won the race, and, as I mentioned before, wouldn't it have been something if the two biggest races were won by a part-time driver, driving for a single-car team? As for your comments about RPM struggling this year. Well, why is that surprising? After all, Richard Petty runs the team, and as long as he does, that team will continue to struggle mightily. As I mentioned in another comments page, I wouldn't wish the Wood Brothers or Richard Petty Motorsports on any aspiring driver, because that would, in my mind, lead to a cruel fate. After all, one is, and will continue to be, a part-time team and the other is run so poorly, that Kasey Kahne was willing to risk not racing in NASCAR at all in 2011 to leave the organization to go to Hendrick Motorsports in 2012. After all, how Kahne ever won two races and made the Chase in 2009 driving for Petty is one of the miracles that has happened in Cup racing in recent years. 247. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.03.2011 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant Delaware Speedway in Ontario, Canada, to avoid confusion with Dover, Delaware. I think NASCAR would thrive if it ran an all short track schedule plus Texas, Darlington, Daytona, Charlotte, and Talladega each getting one race. 248. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Frank, I've always believed that Bayne would make a better Cup driver than he would a Nationwide driver, and I've always thought it would be a mistake for Roush to move Stenhouse into the Cup series ahead of Bayne. Bayne's personality and racing temperment fits the Cup series more than Stenhouse's does. After all, at year's end, unless something changes, Bayne will have 18 starts in the Cup series, while Stenhouse will have all of ONE, when he filled in for Bayne in the Coca-Cola 600, and that was a rocky race for Stenhouse, as he hit the wall about six times. As for my statements about cutting the rear spoilers an inch, as well as cutting three inches off the bottom of the back bumper. I never said those changes would slow the cars down by themselves. I said those changes would elimiate the two-car pods because that would make the cars harder to drive, and if the drivers actually had to back off, even the slightest bit, or at least stop pushing the car in front of them all the way around the track, that would slow the overall lap speed down, at times by as much as 10 MPH. And in case you've forgotten already, they ran the fastest race speeds they've ever run at Daytona this year, with Trevor Bayne setting an all-time in-race record of nearly 202 MPH near the end of the Daytona 500, and they were running up to 207 at times in the Bud Shootout, because of the two-car pods. Eliminate that, and the cars will slow down about 10 MPH because of that alone. In the 2010 Daytona 500, they were running 189-191 MPH. In this year's Daytona 500, they were running 200+, because of the newly paved track and the two-car pods. And as for your statements about IndyCars getting airborne. There's always a risk of that in an open-wheel race, because of the possibility of one car's wheel climbing over another, regardless of the speed. After all, Salt Walther had that happen to him on the orignial start of the 1973 Indianapolis 500, and he was only going about 130-150 MPH at the time he ran over Jerry Grant's tire. And Tom Sneva was only going about 150-160 MPH when he ran over Eldon Rasmussen's wheel when he had his infamous crash in the 1975 race in front of the turn two suites. Any time there's an open-wheel race, there always the possibility that a car will get airborne, though I will agree that cars getting airborne all by themselves, beginning in 2003 with Indy 500 winners Kenny Brack and Mario Andretti (subbing for an injured Tony Kanaan), and then Sam Hornish, Jr. a few years later (the year he won, I believe), was most disturbing to me then, as it is now, because those crashes were like what you would see in a hydroplane boat accident. 249. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Frank, passing the pace car wasn't as much Goodyear's fault as it was the fault of veteran pace car driver Don Bailey, who as I mentioned, was only going about 72 MPH when Goodyear passed it. The pace car for starts and restarts at the Indianapolis 500 should always be going at least 120 MPH. Yes, Goodyear jumped the start, as everyone did back then, but the pace car should NEVER have been on the track at that point, and if it was, it should NEVER have been going that slow. 250. 00andJoe posted: 08.03.2011 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs - Wasn't part of the NNS race at Martinsville being a fiasco because of NASCAR's meddling with the schedule to accomodate the Buschwhackers though? I don't think NASCAR should run an 'all short track' schedule for Cup, but they do need to "box" the cars - and have NNS running a mostly seperate schedule. Or even have 50% companion races NNS and 50% Truck, while getting tracks like Irwindale, Rockingham and Milwaukee on or back on the B-series' schedules. Heck, why not run the Trucks during Speedweeks at New Smyrna Speedway, even? 251. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.03.2011 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why Penske continues to let him run the car in non-companion races is beyond me" It is because he signed a two year contract with Discount Tire and Ruby Tuesday to run the full NWide season for '10 and '11. He did this because, at the time, they didn't know if they could provide him with a full time Cup ride. Surely he won't race the 22 NWide car at Iowa. His left (braking) foot looks really wicked and Iowa and Pocono both require a lot of braking. I can't imagine him running 200 laps (600 hard brakes minus caution laps) after 250 laps at Iowa (500 hard brakes minus caution laps) on that cankle (that is what they are calling it on Twitter). Surely his sponsors will understand. An NWide race at Martinsville would only work if it was in conjunction with the Modified race or the big Late Model race they have there. They tried it as a stand alone event in '06 and it failed for a few reasons. First off, with two Cup dates, not many people wanted to travel out to Martinsville for a third time just to watch the Busch Series. I went, but not much is around Martinsville, so they don't have a lot to draw from. Secondly, they were going to run it at night under temporary lights they brought in once for the Modified race, but decided to hold it mid afternoon to accomodate the Cup drivers that were racing in Pocono and doing double duty. And third, the race sucked. The amount of cautions were ridiculous. They couldn't go 5 laps of racing without somebody spinning out. I wouldn't recommend NWide coming back to Martinsville. I say fill the open dates with race tracks in areas NASCAR doesn't go to. How about at a track in the Pacific Northwest? I remember the Trucks in the early years going to some really nice tracks up there. If they can't go to Montreal next year, how about running at the Lime Rock Park road course on the open New Hampshire weekend? Of course, an NWide return to Rockingham would be nice. Or if they could re-open Wilkesboro and add SAFER barriers. Yes, those are just pipe dreams. 252. Smokefan05 posted: 08.03.2011 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Smokefan05: One reason IRP gets an outcry but Montreal doesn't isn't hypocricy, but rather that IRP is a traditional short track that has hosted NASCAR for years. Circuit Gilles Villeneuve, while a magnificent track that put on excellent events, is a road course that came on the scene recently in NASCAR and therefore has no tradition attached to it. Easy come, easy go." It may have no NASCAR tradition but it has a tradition of fans showing up every year wether it be F1 or NASCAR. Hey i dont like NASCAR getting rid of IRP either but what can you do? "Since you claimed every every business decision is a right one in terms of Brian France, how do you explain the failure of Auto Club Speedway having a race date on Labor Day Weekend and the dwindling attendance Auto Club Speedway had when it had 2 race dates a year then?" I just re-read my post, spelling error on my part. Apologizes everybody, i meant "isn't a right one tho." Yes, that business decision was horrible (see even i bash Brian France too) and the ACS wasn't having a problem of people showing up, when date #2 came, attendence went in the tank. The track now has one date and still don't show up. Indycar is going to back to the track next year. I just wounder how long that will last. "I've heard rumors that the Trucks might be going back to Rockingham next year (taking IRP's date), so that would be incredible. But for NNS, I really hope that a couple of short tracks could get some races. Call me crazy, but I would love to see NNS go back to Martinsville." If The Rock gets a date, then i wounder how many people will thank Brian France for it.......................oh wait none will. It will be a good test to see if people show up *IF* the Trucks go there. "This is only the case when your racing series is owned and run the same way that NASCAR is. Which is not the only way, nor is it the best way, in my opinion." I agree with you, but until a paradigm shift is made to the business model this is the way NASCAR is going to be run. "i wish Brian France had a page on this site for us to leave lots of negative comments on. Ahhhh, its fun to dream" What, with "mature" commments like these? "Brian France, go kill yourself." 253. Cooper posted: 08.03.2011 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian France isn't too blame. NASCAR made some questionable decisions before Brian got his hand in the pie. Also, a lot of the tracks misfortunes weren't because of NASCAR, but simply because of us. NASCAR's fan base blew up in population and a lot of the previous tracks could not function with a new, more lucrative and successful NASCAR. Plain and simple. Do you really think North Wilkesboro could have contributed to a $4M purse every year? This is what caused the creation of multi-billion dollar racetracks across the country. The demand was high and the smaller tracks couldn't handle the demand. Places like Vegas/Texas/Fontana we're built to support an insane amount of people and to make an insane amount of money. Now that NASCAR is not in demand, smaller racetracks like Rockingham could be viable. There is no opportunity cost being lost if NASCAR goes back to these places. In the early 2000's it made no sense to continue racing at places that couldn't support NASCAR's needs. NASCAR was a global sport that was expanding it's fan base year by year. Why would you run at Rockingham for 50000 people, when you can run at Texas for 100000 people and double your profits and exposure. But now, because attendance is going back down, it's in NASCAR's best interest to head back to the places that made NASCAR...NASCAR. 254. murb posted: 08.03.2011 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Lime Rock would be great for stock cars. The Grand Am races there are always good. Or even that New Jersey Motorsports Park. I know they have an ARCA race, but I don't know how well their attendance is for it. But again, I just hope that they make good decisions in replacing these open dates left by Nashville and IRP. It would be really disappointing to have MORE companion races. There's already way too many as it is... 255. 00andJoe posted: 08.03.2011 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What about the road course in West Palm Beach that ARCA ran on last year? 256. murb posted: 08.03.2011 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wouldn't recommend NWide coming back to Martinsville. I say fill the open dates with race tracks in areas NASCAR doesn't go to. How about at a track in the Pacific Northwest? I remember the Trucks in the early years going to some really nice tracks up there. If they can't go to Montreal next year, how about running at the Lime Rock Park road course on the open New Hampshire weekend? Of course, an NWide return to Rockingham would be nice. Or if they could re-open Wilkesboro and add SAFER barriers. Yes, those are just pipe dreams." Well, I live in the Northwest, and the problem is that there really aren't any tracks up here. There's the road course of Portland International Raceway, and that's about it. I've heard rumors of them trying to build places in Washington and stuff like that. But the thing about it is that there isn't a whole lot of Nascar fans up here. So when they talk about building new tracks up here, the most proposed idea is road courses. Now I love road racing in Nascar, but I would much rather have a nice oval track. And unfortunately, I doubt they are going to build any that would be suitable to Nascar in this area. 257. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Frank, those crashes in the 1995 Indianapolis 500 that took out Jimmy Vasser and Scott Pruett had nothing to do with driver error. It had everything to do with the air from the cars that passed them putting them into the wall. The same thing happened to Emerson Fittipaldi in 1994, as he crashed due to the air from Al Unser, Jr.'s car. And for those that want to see the old three-abreast starts at Indy return, as I hear that being a common complaint to the veteran journalists like Robin Miller and Ed Hinton, they have faster starts and let the field get spread out more because they want to avoid the field-decimating crashes that have happened, like in 1995. That also happened in 1958, 1966, 1973, and 1982 before the race even started, and several others were barely averted before the officials in the early 1980s finally decided to speed up the cars for the start and let the field spread out. After all, who wants to see an Indianapolis 500 with only 19-23 cars in it? That actually hapeened in 1958 and 1966, and would have happened in 1973 if it wasn't for the rain, because 12 cars were severely damaged, and only the extra time the rain delays gave those teamsallowed then to fix their cars for the race that year. And only 26 caras raced in the Indy 500 in 1995, the other seven being taken out on the first lap. 258. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.03.2011 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a (somewhat sarcastic) idea to improve both the racing and the level of fan interaction with the sport! New rule regarding what vehicles are elegible to be run - cars must be front engine, rear wheel drive V8, with two doors and a minimum of four seats with at least 10,000 being sold in the US each year. Hello Mustang, Challenger and Camaro. The race cars will share a common chassis, but certain body panels must be shared with the equivalent road car, such as hoods, headlight/grille assembly, trunk lid, etc. And there you have it - we've taken aero dependancy out of the game and brought back brand identity at the same time! In all seriousness though, I've always wondered what the end result would be of someone wanting to modify his production Mustang/Challenger/Camaro into a full blown oval racer. I imagine it would be much, much cooler than a box with stick on headlights. 259. Talon64 posted: 08.03.2011 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SPEED RaceHub just reported that Hornish for Pocono and Kligerman for Iowa will be Keselowski's standby drivers for the weekend. You'd think it would be the other way around since Kligerman's running the Pocono Truck race. But Hornish has the Cup experience to do a competent job in the #2 if he has to step in for practice, qualifying or even the race. And I wouldn't mind Kligerman skipping the Truck race if it gave him a shot in the #22 NNS car. 260. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon64, it might be a case of Kligerman not being cleared to drive in relief in a Cup race. But what Penske should do is run a driver like Todd Bodine or Ron Hornaday, Jr. in relief, if was thinking about going that route. And who would Penske select to drive in relief of Keselowski in the Cup race at Watkins Glen? I think it would be either a road course specialist like Jacques Villeneuve, Max Papis, or Ron Fellows, assuming those drivers don't already have rides for the Cup race at Watkins Glen, or Nationwide-only drivers such as Kenny Wallace or Elliott Sadler. I doubt that Reed Sorenson would, considering he's in contention for the Nationwide title, and I doubt that Mike Wallace, Justin Allgaier, or David Stremme would, considering their past with Penske, and I doubt that Mike Bliss would due to lack of expertise on road courses, nor do I think that Ricky Stenhouse or Trevor Bayne would be allowed to by Jack Roush, if they were even cleared to, which I seriously doubt they would even be cleared to drive a car in relief. And even if either were allowed to drive in relief for Keselowski, I doubt either would drive in relief for a driver that they've both had run-ins with in the last month (Bayne at Daytona and Loudon, and Stenhouse at IRP). 261. murb posted: 08.03.2011 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And who would Penske select to drive in relief of Keselowski in the Cup race at Watkins Glen?" Villeneuve. He's already driven for them this year at Road America. And he's driving the 22 again at Montreal. So I would bet on that. 262. Scott B posted: 08.03.2011 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If running more short tracks produced better TV ratings, it would more than offset any money lost due to a lower paid gate at the track. For weeks before the Brickyard, I was bombarded with TV ads for $30 adult general admission and children admitted free with an adult. Some of that could be made up by concessions, but it's still a sign of trouble when you have to take measures like that to pump up the number of butts in seats at a sporting event. It would be an interesting experiment, and not the worst idea that NASCAR tried out in recent years. 263. IglooRacer posted: 08.03.2011 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought about it today and these COT cars don't spin out as much. How many wrecks do we see at places other then restrictor plate tracks and short tracks? Do we need looser handling race cars to put on a better show? I know aero push is a huge issue and all. I think they designed the COT to be too safe of a handling race car. Oh and I do go to Watkins glen (2 weeks, so pumped!) and Michigan (week right after the glen) and the racing isn't so bad, I'm lucky at Watkins glen cuz I tailgate in turn one, but every road course has at least one good passing spot maybe two. Oh and aren't they making a next gen. COT car in 2013 or something? 264. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.03.2011 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about once weekly live coverage of a weekly series track like Hickory or Irwindale or I-80 Speedway? I think NNS short track tour would be interesting especially if they ran identical cars, on the same weekends at different tracks at different times, on a limited budget of $2,000,000 max of you get penalized, on the national level with combination races at the road courses and the 1.0 mile tracks. This I think, though maybe splitting ratings, would allow for more teams in the NNS series to field 86 cars nationally and would allow for the possibility of drivers having to make a NNS career like Jason Keller did, but also allowing all drivers to not have to worry about lack of a ride if it is cheap enough. 265. Eric posted: 08.03.2011 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IglooRacer, The Next gen COT is coming out in 2013. 266. AutoRockinRacing94 posted: 08.03.2011 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WORST CUP SERIES CROWD EVER!! I have never seen that bad of an attendance since I've starting watching NASCAR in 2003. That was just horrible and could be the beginning of the end at Indy if it stays like it is. Other than that another upset! Paul becomes the fourth driver to get his first Cup win, the most since 2002 (Jimmie Johnson, Ryan Newman, Kurt Busch, and Johnny Benson) 267. AutoRockinRacing94 posted: 08.03.2011 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Excuse me there were 5 in 2002 (add Jamie McMurray), meaning it is the most since 2005 which had 3. 268. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2011 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, AutoRockinRacing94, the crowd for the Brickyard 400 was significantly better than I though it would be at 138,000. I didn't really think it would top 80,000. But you have to consider that 138,000 at Indy seems paltry, because of the number of seats, but getting 138,000 people at one venue for anything is nothing to sneeze at. 138,000 is a pretty big crowd, even if it doesn't look like it due to the size of the facility. I doubt there will be a crowd that big for another NASCAR race until next year's Daytona 500, which may not even have the reigning champion in the field due to possibly not having a ride for the race, which I hope does't happen. 269. StewartSmokesEm posted: 08.03.2011 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "WORST CUP SERIES CROWD EVER!!" Hey idiot, when the venue that hosts the largest single day sporting event in the world is only half full, that's still more people than 9 out of 10 Cup races. Just look at the estimated attendance figure at the top of the page, for every race, then compare. Math is not that difficult. When one number is bigger than another, that means more people. It's one thing to criticize the Brickyard for legitimate reasons, but when you're throwing out blatant lies, I can't let that slide. I'm tired of the slandering of IMS and it's loyal fans throughout this thread. 270. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.04.2011 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) IglooRacer, You're quite right, the COT does not spin out like the old car did. Originally it was because of the end plate on the rear wing and since going to the spoiler, fromt he "shark fin" along the rear windown and bootlid. I agree that there are some changes that could be made to improve the quality of the racing, but disagree with you strongly when you suggest that more crashes will make the racing more entertaining. Instead of changing the cars, NASCAR should rethink the way that the races are run. Before the COT, when a car breached the limit of grip, the car would spin hard to the left and past the 90* mark, often coming back up the track to end up in the wall, or into the path of other cars. For obvious reason, a caution flag was always appropriate in these instances. However, with the COT, incidents like this rarely happen at all. When a driver spins, he ends up rotating no further than having the car pointed at the inside wall, when the shark fin catches the air and halts the spin, allowing the tyres to grip up once more and the driver to steer the car back into the right direction. Which is of course much safer than going arse first into the wall. But NASCAR still throws a caution anyway. That ends up breaking the flow of the race, altering peoples strategies and also - grants the driver who made the mistake a great big get-out-of-jail-free card. In the days of the old car, you slipped up, spun and paid the price. Nowadays, it's a free pit stop to slap on some new rubber and adjust your car back in the right direction. Which I reckon is pretty unfair. So where back on familiar ground - this rant of mind is ending in the same place so many other end - unneccesary cautions. I've noticed that all of these "exciting" cautions also do something else, and that's dicate the way the crew chief plays his cards. When was the last time you heard someone talk about a race strategy? Coming to the green flag, does the crew cheif have a set plan ready, or does he just make it up as they go, simply choosing what happens next when the caution flies? Because that's certainly what it seems like. But on the rare occasions that a crew chief is thinking ahead - thinking further than the next caution flag - it's amazing what they can pull off. Darian Grubb made the winning call back at Texas, only for Tony Stewart to speed on pit road, throwing away a certain victory. Looking back to New Hampshire, Joey Logano, Bobby Labonte and Marcos Ambrose all scored top-10 finishes that they probably weren't really expecting to get, simply because their crew chiefs planned their races a long way in advance. And it's all great fun to watch. But the "exciting" caution flags take all this away, as most of the time, the best strategy really is to just wait until the next caution. And that's a real shame. NASCAR racing is a bloody good thing and always will be and it will be even better when they just let it be the best it can be without outside interference. Because playing God never works. 271. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.04.2011 - 2:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Villeneuve. He's already driven for them this year at Road America. And he's driving the 22 again at Montreal. So I would bet on that." Doesn't he already have a ride for that race? If I recall right and I think I am, the article that said Brad would be sitting out some races and that Jacques would be running the #22 at Road America and Montreal, and Watkins Glen for another team. 272. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.04.2011 - 2:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well... I go back to do some research and it turns out the article didn't mention what he'd be doing for The Glen. Hope Brad decides to sit that one out too. 273. cjs3872 posted: 08.04.2011 - 9:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank you, StewartSmokesEm. It's about time someone else besides me brings out the facts about the Indy crowd. And while it was not close to being to a full house, the 138,000 in attendance, as I've mentioned numerous times, was far better than I expected. Now, as for the teack not producing great racing, that has to do with the speeds the cars are going, along with something else no one, including myself has mentioned, and that's the narrowness of the track. Of the major speedways, IMS, along with Daytona, have the narrowest straightaways, at just 50 feet wide, which is why there have been so many big crashes over the years. It also increases the effectiveness of blocking, since there is just not enough room to get around. Remember the incident in 2008 when Jimmie Johnson about drove Carl Edwards into the end of the pit wall trying to protect the lead. He succeeded and won his secomd Brickyard 400 that day. Speaking of Edwards, it appears that I and a lot of other people were wrong, as he appears to have signed a deal to stay with Roush for the next several years. With that, it appears that none of the major players in NASCAR's free agency market is going to move anywhere. Edwards (RFR), Bowyer (RCR), and Montoya (EGR) are all staying put. There may be some movements amog the minor players, but all the major players are staying put. But while Edwards is staying put at Roush, Roush still has major sponsorship problems to contend with for next year. Edwards staying at Roush will help with some of that, but there's still Matt Kenseth, who lost his sponsor, David Ragan's #6 car, the sponsorship for which is still up in the air, and Roush's NNS program, which has spotty sponsorship, at best. Roush might still have to downsize his NNS program, and how might these new events effect Roush's ties with the Wood Brothers, if at all? Roush has been helping the #21 for a decade now, but will roush's sponsorship problems effect the #21 car, and who drives it? It's doubtful it would, it not impossible. 274. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.04.2011 - 9:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl did the right thing for him and his career. He has proven chemistry at RFR and has found quite a niche for himself there. Is there any guarantee he would have the same chemistry with the JGR guys? He has already come close to a championship in '05, '08, and is looking good this year. In the Jimmie Johnson Era, that is as good as it gets for any team not fielding a car with a 48 on it. He is in his prime and going to JGR would have set him back, especially in the no testing era. The winners in this (aside from Carl, Bob Osborne, and RFR keeping the band together) are a little unclear. Is Joey safe now? I'm not sure. There are still some promising free agents out there. Would they consider Clint Bowyer? His blue collar background would be great for the Home Depot, and his celing is unclear because of RCR's ultra conservative system. Also, I think Home Depot wins because Carl wasn't going to be what they thought he would be. HHe is not as popular as the media makes him out to be. They may be snowed by his phony public persona, but the fans aren't. Those two incidents last year opened our eyes, and he moves very little merchandise. The losers: David Ragan. If Carl were to go, he would probably have kept his ride, but now, I can see him getting replaced by Stenthouse or Bayne. What he's doing now is too little too late. The other loser is Ford and the amount of money they had to pay to keep him. The fact is his is overpaid. He is streaky and not the popular guy people want you to believe he is. 275. potatosalad48 posted: 08.04.2011 - 10:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I was wrong. Carl IS staying with Roush. Though this will help their sponsorship issues, I just don't see Roush releasing Ragan for either Stenhouse or Bayne. I believe it's too big of a risk for Jack to take, despite both their talents. 276. kinznk posted: 08.04.2011 - 12:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 263. IglooRacer posted: 08.03.11 - 8:26 pm Do we need looser handling race cars to put on a better show? As one who reads several message boards it was nice to see a correct spelling and usage of 'looser'. Most times it is used as this- 'Brian France is a looser'. Thank you. 277. Frank posted: 08.04.2011 - 1:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, if you want drivers to back off (even for a bit) at nowdays Datona & Talladega you need to advance speeds quite a while because new surface (factor you underrate) gives so much grip that tires and handling means nothing. Only pushing and being pushed. Scott Goodyear. Really good driver isn't do thing like robot, automatically. If pace car goes 120 mph 99 times and 1 time goes 72 - you have to be prepared for that. Fault of pace car driver is when he crashes racecar like it happened in WTCC couple years ago. Or stopping on the track in front of the field which races each other because some drivers pitting - like it happened in my favorite V8 Supercars at Phillip Island in 2009. "And Frank, those crashes in the 1995 Indianapolis 500 that took out Jimmy Vasser and Scott Pruett had nothing to do with driver error. It had everything to do with the air from the cars that passed them putting them into the wall. The same thing happened to Emerson Fittipaldi in 1994, as he crashed due to the air from Al Unser, Jr.'s car." I can't believe that so educated man like you have written these sentencesâ?¦ Okay, what is driver error in your view? IglooRacer @ 263 - you nailed it. That's why I hate COT from the first year. Instead of cautions because of drivers' errors we've got caution for debris! 278. cjs3872 posted: 08.04.2011 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Frank, if I remember right, even the commentators on the broadcasts during those incidents at least partially blame those incidents on the air from the leading cars, so I am not the only person theat believes that dirty air was not, at least a contributing factor in those accidents. Certainly it wasn't the only factor, but it was a contributing factor, as was driver error, which you are correct about. And as for your point about the fresh ashpalt being a contributing factor in the two-car pods we saw at Daytona and Talladega. It is more than a contributing factor, it is the MAIN reason they can do that, at least at Daytona, as well as the fact that it results in a gain of up to 15 MPH, which is about four seconds if taken for an entire lap. Now there's nothing that can be done to make the drivers back off at Talladega, because of how sweeping the turns are, as well as how steeply the track is banked. But it could work at Daytona, because that track is banked two degrees less than Talladega is, as well as the fact that the track is narrower, and that the turns are sharper than Talladega. But even before it was repaved in 2006, handling was a non-issue at Talladega. But I think if you make the cars harder to drive, as well as make it so that the bumpers don't line up, you will stop the two-car pods almost immediately, which by itself would slow the cars down by 10 MPH. Again, that would work at Daytona, but not neccessarily at Talladega. Why else do they race 20 MPH faster at those two tracks than they qualify? And speaking of that, I believe that they should at least attempt to qualify with a larger restrictor plate to get qualifying speeds up closer to where they should be, then put a smaller one on for the race so that the cars don't go too fast and become potential four-wheel airplanes if they get backwards. 279. Eric posted: 08.04.2011 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am little bit surprised that Edwards is staying since it took him so long. I think it is a great move by Carl. He is the number 1 driver at Roush and he has a great shot of winning the title. In terms of Nashville Speedway, I was correct by saying it wouldn't be on the 2012 Nationwide or Truck Series Schedule. I am more concern Dover Motorsports inc. on this being the 3rd straight year that a track they own no longer has a Nascar race. I have a bad feeling that Dover International Speedway is going to be the next track to go bye bye with happening in after the 2012 to 2015 season time period. If Dover International Speedway goes bye bye, Burton Smith will get his paws on the dates Dover Currently has. I see Bruton wanting a chase date for Vegas and for another of his tracks unless the France Family wants the other Dover Nascar track date. The France Family would be after that date for Homestead, or maybe giving Chicagoland a 2nd cup date. 280. cjs3872 posted: 08.04.2011 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, Edwards staying at Roush is a win-win for many. Obviously, for Roush, it means not having to rush Ricky Stenhouse into a Cup car full-time before he's ready, since he would've been the next driver of that car. It's a win for Joey Logano, who apparently keeps his ride in the #20 car. It's a good situation for Edwards, but he wasn't going to lose no matter what in this. But what about the other drivers without a contract for 2012? Well, Bowyer (RCR #33) and Montoya (EGR #42) will probably also stay with their current rides. But Mark Martin, Brian Vickers, and Daytona 500 winner Trevor Bayne are also among those without contracts for next year. But if Roush releases David Ragan, which seems improbable, what happens with the #6 car? Does Martin and Stenhouse split time in that car next year, or does Martin move into that car full-time for one year, and Stenhouse move into the #21 car part-time, then move to the #6 car full-time in 2013, or does Bayne re-sign with the Wood Brothers to run the #21 part-time again next year? Or does Roush downsize to three Cup cars (16, 17, 99) next year, a possibility that Greg Biffle briefly brought up in a recent interview. And what of Brian Vickers' situation. And does Roush release Bayne due to lack of sponsorship for his NNS car? And what happens to the #60 NNS car next year, with Edwards having already declared that he won't run that car full-time next year? Sure, Edwards re-signing with Roush is good news for quite a few drivers, but it may also leave a lot of questions that we didn't know about unanswered. 281. murb posted: 08.04.2011 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All I can say about this is that Carl just saved his championship hopes for this year. They've finally gotten this crap out of the way, and now they can start looking towards the chase. I can't imagine the weight that has been lifted off the shoulders of Bob Osbourne and all those guys on the team... 282. cjs3872 posted: 08.04.2011 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, not only did he save his own title hopes, but he may also have saved the title hopes of Matt Kenseth, and maybe even the NNS title hopes of his protege Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. 283. murb posted: 08.04.2011 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But what about the other drivers without a contract for 2012? Well, Bowyer (RCR #33) and Montoya (EGR #42) will probably also stay with their current rides. But Mark Martin, Brian Vickers, and Daytona 500 winner Trevor Bayne are also among those without contracts for next year. But if Roush releases David Ragan, which seems improbable, what happens with the #6 car? Does Martin and Stenhouse split time in that car next year, or does Martin move into that car full-time for one year, and Stenhouse move into the #21 car part-time, then move to the #6 car full-time in 2013, or does Bayne re-sign with the Wood Brothers to run the #21 part-time again next year? Or does Roush downsize to three Cup cars (16, 17, 99) next year, a possibility that Greg Biffle briefly brought up in a recent interview." Bowyer has already said he wants to stay at RCR. They're just getting some sponsorship stuff ironed out from what I've read. And Montoya is also gonna stay at EGR. The 6 car is a little in question. If Ragan misses the chase and then completely falls off the face of the Earth, I see him getting replaced. Like I said in an earlier post, it will probably be Stenhouse to the 6 if that happens. And also going back to what I said, I would not mind at all if Trevor explored other options for next year. I think he's light years ahead of Stenhouse when it comes to being ready for Cup, so I think that a smart team would realize that and pick him up. As for Mark Martin, predicting what he is gonna do next year is like predicting what Brett Favre is gonna do next year... 284. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.04.2011 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "All I can say about this is that Carl just saved his championship hopes for this year." Agreed. Now he can focus on trying to get back the speed he had at the beginning of the year. He has fallen behind the 48, 24, 17, and 18 teams. Had he signed with JGR, there was no way he was making it up. Now I have him ahead of Kyle in my personal rankings for most likely to win this year's Cup title (mostly because Kyle has always backslid at the end of the year, and until he proves he can close it out I won't believe in him), but still behind JJ, Jeff, and Matt. Carl may be the public face of RFR and Ford, but it is pretty clear who the #1 driver there is as far as on track and off track leadership. Gordon is gaining more and more chemistry by the week with Alan and is completely rejuvenated now that he is out of the shadow of his own monster, and JJ, well...... 285. Scott B posted: 08.04.2011 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To correct something I posted earlier... There are now 61 drivers with one career Cup win. That's out of 181 drivers who have won races, so about a third of the all-time winners are one-timers. That includes the four first time winners for 2011 (Menard, Regan, Smith and Bayne) Three other drivers currently active in Cup also have one win: Joey Logano, Casey Mears and Martin Truex Jr. Johnny Benson Jr also has one Cup win, but has not raced in Cup this season. 286. cjs3872 posted: 08.04.2011 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, Bayne might be forced to seek other options if sponsorship for his car can't be found, but I think the likelyhood of ragan being replaced next year is as low as it has been during his tenure with Roush's #6 car. But if he is replaced, it would be either Stenhouse, which would be a mistake, or Mark Martin, with Stenhouse moving to the #21 car part-time, and then to the #6 car in 2013, if it's not temporarily shut down for lack of sponsorship. with Bayne being the odd man out, due to lack of sponsorship, possibly leaving next year's Daytona 500 without it's reigining champion. And as I mentioned, Bayne may have connections between the Wood Brothers team he currently drives for and Earnhardt-Ganassi Racing. 287. cjs3872 posted: 08.04.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Scott B, one of those one-time winners was 1950 NASCAR Champion Bill Rexford. And of those 181 Cup winners, 61 won only once, only 96 have won more than twice, only 73 have won as many as five, and only 57 have won as many as 10 times. Aside from Rexford, two other champions have won fewer than 10 times. They were Red Byron (two wins), the first champion in 1949 and Alan Kulwicki (five wins), who lost his life in 1993 as the reigning champion, having won the title in 1992. In fact, Byron, Rexford, and Kulwicki are currently the only drivers with fewer than 20 wins to have won at least one championship, and only two drivers, Joe Weatherly (25 wins) and Terry Labonte (22 wins), have won more than one championship among drivers with fewer than 39 wins. By the way, there won't be another driver to reach double digits in victories for quite some time. The closest active driver to 10 wins is Jamie McMurray, with just six (ironically, he the only driver with exactly six wins). There's only one other fully active driver, not counting start-and-parker Joe Nemechek (four wins) that has more than two, but not as many as ten, and that's Clint Bowyer, with four wins, and neither McMurray or Bowyer have shown that they can win in bunches. So who's the next driver to reach double digits in victories? It could be Brad Keselowski, but he has just two. Or could it be one of the seven drivers with just one win? Highly unlikely, considering four of those got that win this year, and all seven seem to be conservative drivers. They would, of course, be Casey Mears, Joey Logano, David Ragan, Regan Smith, Paul Menard, Martin Truex, Jr., and Trevor Bayne, who may not even have a ride next year, and his current deal is a part-time deal. So it's quite possible that the next driver to reach double digits in career wins is someone that hasn't won yet, or someone who isn't even racing on the Cup level yet. Someone like Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. or Austin Dillon. And it probably would be four or five years after their careers in the Cup series begin before they threaten the 10-win mark. In other words, the 57 drivers in the double digit win club won't be getting any new members for a very long time. 288. Talon64 posted: 08.04.2011 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's official, Brad Keselowski won't be racing the NNS race at Iowa. Parker Kligerman's practicing the car on Friday, then Sam Hornish Jr. will qualify and run the race on Saturday. 289. murb posted: 08.04.2011 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's official, Brad Keselowski won't be racing the NNS race at Iowa. Parker Kligerman's practicing the car on Friday, then Sam Hornish Jr. will qualify and run the race on Saturday." I don't get why they just don't have Hornish there on Friday too. Now Parker has to go back and forth from Pocono to Iowa. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. 290. Talon64 posted: 08.04.2011 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, new info says Hornish will handle ALL duties at Iowa: Practice, qualifying and race. And Keselowski's been fully cleared to compete at Pocono "without any limitations". I suppose in the worst case scenario they could have Kligerman run the #2 since I really don't think he wouldn't be cleared to run in Cup given he has plenty of NNS and Truck starts now. 291. IglooRacer posted: 08.04.2011 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Myothercarisan- I didn't mean more crashes meant better racing, I meant looser cars may end up in better racing. I said you never see spins as much cuz the drivers 9 times out of 10 complain of a tight condition. So they can't pass. That's just how I see it. It's good to see cup drivers and owners see the importance of NOT running a nationwide race. It's not worth the extra strain on Keselowski to run the two races those weekend, no incentive. 292. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.04.2011 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Igloo - Sorry mate, I read it the wrong way. I agree with what you're saying about a looser car. I wonder if the massive size and weight of the cars has something to do with it? How much of that 3,500lbs is just dead weight, ballast added to reach a requirement? I still stand by the rest of my post though. Less interference=better racing. "That's why I hate COT from the first year. Instead of cautions because of drivers' errors we've got caution for debris!" There are still cautions from spins...it's just that a spin now doesn't actually deserve a caution and the spinner is likely to avoid any damage...so really he just gets a free chance to get some sdjustments! "Or stopping on the track in front of the field which races each other because some drivers pitting - like it happened in my favorite V8 Supercars at Phillip Island in 2009." That was a nightmare. The first safety car period in the second Abu Dhabi race this year was also a disaster - the cars that had pitted during the caution actually rejoined the racetrack ahead of the safety car! However I think that was more a flaw in the design of the track than anything else. Another safety car incident - this one is more funy than farcical - was in the third race at Symmons Plains in 2004. Four drivers were playing the strategy game by staying out later than the rest of the field. They all came into the pits to make their stop on the same lap, but at the same time as they were exiting the pits, there was a massive accident, bring out the safety car. The safety car ended up exiting the pits at exactly the same time as they did and before the rest of the field had reached them, meaning they were the first four cars in line. The other teams protested that the real leader of the race was in 5th on the road and that the 4 cars in question were actually on the tailend of the lead lap. After some heated discussions, the stewards agreed to wave the four cars past the safety car to rejoin and the back of the pack. The race was run, provisonal results declared, etc etc.....but after review it was found that the four cars waved past WERE actually the leaders of the race and the results were changed accordingly. It was beautiful. 293. Spen posted: 08.04.2011 - 11:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "he may also have saved the title hopes of Matt Kenseth" How so? Edwards is considered the #1 driver at the team, so most if not all of their energy will be focused on the #99. Kenseth will be forgotten. I personally think that signing with Gibbs would have been better for him in the long run. Yes, Roush is good *right now* but they have been extremely streaky during the last few years. After all, he went from winning nine races in one year, to going ten months without leading so much as a single green flag lap. Gibbs has had their ups and downs, but they haven't been shut out of the top five in overall season* points since '03. Their downs aren't near as bad. The other driver who wins big in this is Denny Hamlin. I was certain that if Edwards went to Gibbs, he'd be out of a ride within three years. You can't survive long as the #3 guy on a team. And Kyle Busch's chances of someday winning a championship just got better. Had Edwards come over, he probably would have gotten more focus during the chase, as the chase tracks work more to his favour than Shrub's. Incidentally, Roush has only gone back to suporting the Woods in the last year. From '06-'10 they were more or less on their own. They had gotten Roush support while Rudd was driving for them, and I think in Sadler's last two years as well. And while yes, the Woods have *probably* won thier last race, we can't say that for sure. After all, did anyone think they'd win again after Bristol '01? So until they say "that's it, we're not running a car anymore" we can't say for sure that they won't win again. Though personally, I think Front Row stands a better chance. Gilliland's gonna win a plate race soon. Though I think their chances would improve if they were smarter about what races they run. It was quite obvious from Schrader and Elliott's tenure there that they had a much stronger short track program than anything else. When Bill Elliott, who's not exactly known for short track prowess, gets his second best finish of the year at Martinsville, that tells you something. And given that Bayne seems to be best at the narrower short tracks, it seems like a no-brainer to try for those races instead. Yeah, the big races pay more, but you'll be far more likely to attract a sponser by getting a top ten at Martinsville, then you will by running thirtieth at Atlanta. By the way, I love your idea of running the wicker roof at the larger tracks. That might be just what they need. People don't believe me when I tell them that Michigan used to put on great races. Actually, it was one of my favourite races of the year. The draft worked so well, that you'd actually see people like D.K. Ulrich and Tommy Gale running towards the front early on. And it just put on a great show all day. I'd love to have that back again. * Overall season meaning traditional points, discounting the chase variables. 294. cjs3872 posted: 08.05.2011 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, let me react to a few of your points. First, it must be noted that Roush was even helping the Wood Brothers back in 2001 when Elliott Sadler won at Bristol. They have been helping the Woods for a decade. When Schrader and Elliott drove the cars, neither of them were competitve anymore, so we don't know how strong that car could have been. Remember that around that same time, Jon Wood was driving for, and even won a couple of Truck Series races for Roush, including one at Martinsville. Also, the reason I think that Edwards resigning with Roush was a break to Matt Kenseth's title chances is how that would have affected the entire organization. Kenseth has a better chance at the championship than Edwards does anyway for one simple reason. Kenseth is not going to make the mistake that Edwards is likely to somewhere down the line. And not making that mistake will give Kenseth a better shot than Edwards, who notoriously has had problems sealing the deal when the big money is on the line for his entire career. After all, Edwards has not won ANY of NASCAR's biggest races, except for this year's All-Star Race, which doesn't count for points. Meanwhile, Kenseth was the first Roush driver ever to win the championship (2003), and is the only roush driver ever to win the Daytona 500 (2009), and has a victory in the Coca-Cola 600 in 2000, the only rookie ever to win that race. so if a Roush driver is to win the championship this year, it's more likely to be Kenseth. As for Bayne, I wouldn't say he's better on the tighter short tracks as much as it is that he's better on the tougher tracks, and especially, the tracks that the driver is more important on, and his performance late in the Brickyard 400 when he drove up to fourth, passing Kyle Busch and Greg Biffle along the way, sealed that for me. He's just not that great on the tracks where you have to hustle the car, as that's not the way he drives, as well as the fact that the shorter races don't suit his personality either. That's why he's not won a Nationwide race yet, and if he doesn't win at Iowa, he won't this year. But put him in a good Cup car with longer races and you may have a winner on your hands. Remember, Tony Stewart didn't win a race on that circuit until his SEVENTH season on the Cup circuit. You are spot on about the need to put drafting back into the equation on the 1.5-2.5 mile tracks. At both Pocono and Charlotte, records were set for lead changes in 1979 that still stand today. There were 59 lead changes at the World 600 that year, and there were 56 at Pocono that year. And back in the 1970s, cars ran in packs at places like Michigan, Texas World Speedway (which was a higher-banked 2 mile oval shaped like Michgan was), and the Ontario Motor Speedway (which was a wider, faster copy of Indy). That's why I was first to mention that they need to do something to put drafting back into play. By the way, I am glad that they put shifting back into play at Pocono, and it was no surprise to me that Jeff Gordon was a major player in that race, picking up the victory. when they shifted at Pocono previously, Gordon was, far and away, the best at that track, and he has led nearly 1,000 laps there over the years. But when they took shifting away, it took something out of the arsenal of drivers like Gordon and Tony Stewart. So Gordon's win there may not have been such a big surprise after all, and many consinder him the favorite to become the track's first-ever six-time winner. Anything that puts the driver more into the equation is something that, as a race fan, I want to see. Nothing against Denny Hamlin, who had dominated there in past years, and is also one of the heavy favorites this week, but the lack of shifting put drivers like him at an advantage, but the return of shifting put the best overall drivers, like Gordon, Stewart, Jimmie Johnson, and the Busch brothers back up front, because I think they are all better overall racers than Hamlin is. 295. 00andJoe posted: 08.05.2011 - 1:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) News tidbit: James Hylton will be making his first Truck Series start this weekend. 296. Spen posted: 08.05.2011 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said, Roush *did* support the Woods from '01-05. Starting in '06, they were on their own. The Texas race last year was the first time they'd had a Roush car since '05. And it was around '03 that Jon Wood was running for Roush. And yes, Kenseth is a better deal sealer than Edwards, but I don't think Roush realizes that. After all, whenever Roush has had a good year overall (2005, '08, this year) Edwards is usually the top performing driver overall. I believe that's because Roush places more value on his ability to, as you say "hustle the car" than he does on Matt's quiet efficancy. Matt generally only shines when the team as a whole isn't performing very well. (See 2003, '06) So to me, that shows that he's just not the main priority. Especially now that Edwards has been resigned, everyone at Roush will be making sure his every whim is followed. And you're right, he'll choke it away in the end. But Matt won't be there to pick up the title, since he'll be running a good 5-10 positions behind Carl during most of the chase races. And Matt *will* get caught in a wreck at Talladega. I guarentee it. Thanks for mentioning Texas World. Another fun old track, that most people forget about. Though at least it's still around, unlike Ontario. (One of my favourite memories of that track was an ARCA race in - 1992? That was won by Eddie Bierschwale of all drivers. I really enjoyed that one. Benny's win in '81 was a fun race too. Pity no one showed up for it. 297. 00andJoe posted: 08.05.2011 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also: Jason White is running the Cup race this weekend in the #32. 298. Spen posted: 08.05.2011 - 1:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And yes, you're right that Bayne's better on driver tracks. That's pretty much what I meant. That it would make more sense for them to run at driver's tracks like Martinsville, Loudon, Darlington and the like, rather than waste time at tracks like Texas or California, where the driver hardly matters at all. And you're probably right about Bayne's chances of winning in the Busch series this year. Of course, with Keselowski out of the way, that just leaves the Roushketeers to race among themselves. Stenhouse will likely run away with it though, since he needs the points. But if something happens to him, Bayne'll be there. 299. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.05.2011 - 2:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was a good move for Carl to re-sign with Roush since he's pretty much their main focus, which means he'll benefit the most when the Roush cars are really good. I bet now they are relieved that this is out of the way for them and that they now can focus on regaining dominant speed and trying to prepare for the cha$e. 300. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.05.2011 - 7:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 300!! Spen: It was 1992 and the winner was Mickey Gibbs. 301. Spen posted: 08.05.2011 - 9:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Then it must be '93 I'm thinking of. I know Eddie won once. (Or was it at Talladega? Now you've got me going.) 302. cjs3872 posted: 08.05.2011 - 9:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought that the last significant race at Texas World Speedway was an ARCA race in 1993 in which Darrell Waltrip lapped the field in what was his final significant victory of any kind. But I do believe that Eddie Bierschwale may have qualified that car, but I could be mistaken. And, by the way, both Carl and Matt Kenseth will be the focus at Roush if things stay this way. but the thing about those two drivers is that their driving styles couldn't be any further apart. And let's not forget that Kenseth almost stole the title from Jimmie Johnson in 2006, when Johnson's cars were far superior. And also, has anyone forgotten that when Roush made his resurgence in 2002 after a bad year in 2001, that it was Matt Kenseth leading the way as the season's leading winner with five victories. And I still think that Kenseth will be Roush's best hope for a championship, since he does not make errors, and this championship will be won by the driver and team that makes the fewest mistakes, not the one that performs the best. That's why I think, and based on performance, it's starting to look this way at any rate, trhat this year's championship may be shaping up as Kenseth vs. Gordon, and I like the experience of Jimmy Fennig in that battle, since alan Gufstason, Gordon's crew chief, hasn't won any big prize either, with the possible exception ot the 2009 Southern 500 with Mark Martin. As for Jimmie Johnson. He'll be a non-factor for the championship if his pit stops continue to be the comedy of errors that they've become. And I even heard somewhere that there's dissention between Johnson and crew chief Chad Knaus on the radio in one of the TV wrap-up shows for the Brickyard 400. For the momnet, it seems that Jeff Gordon, by simply getting away from Chad Knaus, may be moving back into the #1 spot at Hendrick, and unlike Carl Edwards, who many think is roush's #1 driver, Gordon does not make errors, at least this season. That's why it seems that the championship may come down to a battle between him and Kenseth. 303. cjs3872 posted: 08.05.2011 - 9:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And remember, when Roush supposedly had the dominant cars earlier this season, Edwards only won once, and the most dominant effort by a Roush car occurred at Texas, when MATT KESNETH, not Edwards, dominated. So Kenseth is capable of overwhelming performances. And Spen, about your comments about Stenhouse running away with the race at Iowa, which I predict he may very well do, remember, because of the point situation, Bayne will probably not even be allowed to race Stenhouse, if they're close, which they most likely won't be, unless it's off a restart. Remember, Stenhouse IS the protege of Carl Edwards, as both like to hustle their cars. SPEED's Race Hub last night mentioned that Edwards is a mentor to both Stenhouse and Trevor Bayne, but that's not true. There's no way that Edwards could possibly mentor Bayne, as their styles are totally different. And I'm not sure Edwards particularly liked the fact that Bayne wouldn't allow Edwards to crowd him, as he attempted to do at Loudon. 304. Anonymous posted: 08.05.2011 - 10:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen: It was Dega. Go to ARCA.com. 305. 00andJoe posted: 08.05.2011 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs - that was actually a combination ARCA/Winston West race in 1993, the results are on the site. 306. cjs3872 posted: 08.05.2011 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay 00andJoe, but as far as I know, it was the final major race at the Texas World Speedway, which is why it was mentioned, because someone else brought up what might have been that facility's final major event. By the way, they need to check the back of Denny Hamlin's car at Pocono today for bags of sand, because he was 39th in the first practice. And we know he will be one of the heavy favorites this weekend there. They may as well check the back of Jeff Gordon's for that same reason, as he was just 25th in the same session. 307. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.05.2011 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872: Practice is meaningless. Bobby Labonte won at Atlanta in 2001 after starting 39th. The only that matters is being on the lead lap around lap 50 because then you still have time to tweak the car and make up the spots. 308. cjs3872 posted: 08.05.2011 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I said that Denny Hamlin and Jeff Gordon were sandbagging because running slower in the first practice session means they will go out to qualify earlier Saturday, and since qualifying begins at 10:40 AM Saturday morning, running slower in practice to get an earlier qualifying time would potentially give them a sizeable advantage by not running as hard as they could. 309. Frank posted: 08.05.2011 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I'm glad that you started to admit that driver is responsible to take proper note on dirty air from car ahead but I need to repeat - nobody and nothing besides driver take this responsibility. In my opinion, even flat tyre or blown engine could be driver error. Because of abusing and overrevving respectively. Crashes like those two in '95 Indy 500 were 100% drivers' faults. And I am also for Kenseth - not only because Edwards is a jerk really but because Matt is stable AND he has Jimmy Fennig who now can repeat his 2004 success after couple years with unable Ragan. 310. cjs3872 posted: 08.05.2011 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well that depends on what kind of mechanical problem you're talking about, Frank. After all, five drivers were out of the Indianapolis 500 in 1974 by six laps, all but one of which was a potnetial winner. You can't say any of them overdrove their car. And not all tire problems are caused by driver error, nor are all crashes. After all, you could hit an oil slick and crash, get a flat tire from running over debris on the track, or have someone spin right in front of you and have no place to go. So to say that all crashes are caused by driver error is ridiculous. Most of them, yes, but not all of them. And also remember, mechanical things can break at any time, even if there's not a lot of wear and tear on them. As for your comment about Jimmy Fennig, Matt Kenseth's crew chief, you don't know the half of it. Not only did Fennig win the title in 2004 with Kurt Busch, but he already had many triumphs as a crew chief by then. Some of Mark Martin's greatest years, including his greatest season of 1998, when he won seven times, came with Fennig as crew chief. And prior to joining Roush, he was Bobby Allison's crew chief, helping Allison to the last two of his 85 career victories, both coming at Daytona, including the famed 1988 Daytona 500, when Bobby and Davey had their 1-2 father-son finish in the season's biggest race. (Something most fans and some drivers don't know about because they don't care about the history of the sport.) Then he stayed with Allison when he formed his own Cup team for the 1990 season and nearly won races with drivers such as Hut Stricklin and Derrike Cope. In fact, both were major players in more than one race when they drove for Allison, and a major reason was Jimmy Fennig. In fact, Cope came within a few laps of winning the next-to-last race of the 1995 season at Phoenix before Ricky Rudd passed him just prior to the finish. And in 1994, Chuck Bown put Allison's car on the pole at Bristol in the spring race. he never led a lap in that race, but he did win the pole position at one of NASCAR's toughest tracks, which was another feather in Fennig's cap. In fact, Fennig did not move to Roush until Bobby Allison had to shut down his team following the 1996 season. 311. cjs3872 posted: 08.05.2011 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Frank, as I mentioned in some earlier posts, the reason I pick Kenseth to win the title instead of Edwards is that, even though Edwards might be a faster driver, and he certainly is a more aggressive driver, Edwards is almost certainly going to make the one or two mistakes that Kenseth will not make, and that may very well push Kesneth past Edwards as the driver likely to give Roush his best chance at a third title this year. Remember, Kenseth was the first driver from Roush to win a championship in 2003, and to this day, he's the ONLY Roush driver ever to win the Daytona 500, the sport's biggest event, doing so in 2009, and he's also the ONLY rookie ever to win the sport's longest event, the Coca-Cola 600 in 2000. Meanwhile, Edwards has NEVER been able to seal the deal when the big money is on the line, and is likely to make the one BIG mistake that is likely to cost him, as he did at the fall race at Tallageda in 2008. If not for that, he might have won the championship going away that year. By the way, if Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. fails to win the Nationwide title this year, it will be because he will also make the mistake that is likely to cost him the title, as, while he's the best of the young drivers coming up in my opinion, he is also prone to make mistakes, and that may cost him in the end, as well. 312. Eric posted: 08.06.2011 - 12:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, Nationwide and the truck series shouldn't go back to the Milwaukee Mile. It more than attendance at the Indycar race. There is security issues on Wisconsin State Fair Grounds. This affects the Milwaukee Mile because people go into the stands coming from the Fair grounds. Proof of security issues: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44031429/ns/local_news-milwaukee_wi/t/scare-state-fair-witnesses-describe-mobs-some-people-claim-racially-charged-attacks#.TjyIzkZ3wnI 313. Eric posted: 08.06.2011 - 12:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Wisconsin State Fair grounds now have a new policy in place Yesterday, but that policy doesn't take place before 5:00 p.m. that people that are 18 years old or younger need to be with a parent or guardian for being on Wisconsin State fair grounds. The flaw is you still get 200 to 300 15 to 20 year old punks beating up people and doing damage to cars before 5:00 p.m. This affect Nascar because Milwaukee had at least 2 times in the last month that a huge mob doing crimes that appears to race motivated and a Nascar race could be targeted because of the color of skin the people going to Nascar races are as a result despite the police chief, Mayor and the local media trying to cover it up. Nascar Fans are on Wisconsin State Fair grounds in the past for Nationwide races by 2:00 or 3:00 p.m. and that is why security is a concern since there is flaws in the new Wisconsin State Fair ground policey. 314. Eric posted: 08.06.2011 - 12:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When I typed "policey", I meant to type policy. 315. Frank posted: 08.06.2011 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, thank you for reminding facts about Fennig. NASCAR changed a lot, which only adds respect to Jimmy, but also makes recent success more valuable speaking about current abilities. By the way Doug Richert was Dale's crew-chief in 1980 but it slightly matters when he lost 2005 title with Biffle (mostly in Texas race). I've got and agree about Cart-Matt situation, it's pretty evident and you don't need to chew it again and again. And I am still impressed how can you consider Stenhouse the best but consider Bayne is more ready for Cup. Maybe you mean that Trevor is ready for kinda Regan Smith's Cup career? Hilarious! 316. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Frank, I consider Stenhouse to be the top driver to watch in the future, but I don't think he's quite ready for Cup yet. I think 2013 is his year, where I believe that Bayne will be ready for Cup for 2012, if he isn't right now, if for no other reason, his own triumphs and tribulations this year. But the ceiling for Stenhouse is much higher than the ceiling for Bayne is, especially if Stenhouse can ever learn to tone his aggressive driving down. As Junior Johnson always said and believed, you can slow a driver down, but it's extremely difficult to speed him up, and Stenhouse has to be slowed down, but if he can be slowed down, he would be the one to watch in the future. Remember when Jeff Gordon moved to Cup in 1993, he wasn't near as ready as Kenny Wallace and Bobby Labonte were, but once he got to where he didn't feel he had to drive all-out for an entire race, you've seen what has happened. 317. 00andJoe posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #20 sponsor: The Home Depot (all other results from 2010-2011 include "The"). 318. Frank posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not taking too much from Jeff Gordon, you need to have Ray Evernham class of crew-chief to build such a terrific career. 319. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed, Frank, but there were as many questions about Evernham back in 1993 as there were about Gordon, if not more. Remember, Evernham only got with Gordon as a full-time crew chief due to a blow-up he had with Alan Kulwicki. If not for that, he may never have become Gordon's crew chief when he did. 320. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #30 David Stremme Out using fastest 43: #23 Terry Labonte 321. Robert Nelson posted: 07.12.2012 - 11:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Kyle Busch 180 Carl Edwards 171 Matt Kenseth 148 322. WindowsME posted: 07.16.2019 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trevor Bayne had a chance at a top 5 late in this race before he pit for fuel with 7 to go. Also, apparently during a mid-race pit stop Clint Bowyer pit for 255 tires according to ESPN's race off pit road lol. 323. Rich posted: 12.06.2020 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allen Bestwick, Andy Petree and Dale Jarrett were the commentators. Vince Welch, Dave Burns, Jamie Little and Dr. Jerry Punch were the pit road reporters. Tim Brewer was at the Chevy cut-away car. Nicole Briscoe, Rusty Wallace and Brad Daugherty were in the ESPN pit studio. 324. Josh_Drake posted: 01.01.2021 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's safe to say that with Smokefan05's big brain 'both sides' takes on these forums inciting fighting in the comments, it is no wonder the comments on these older races are as toxic as they are. In terms of the race, it was a memorable finish, and the storyline of (IIRC) former open wheel driver Paul Menard winning at Indy was captivating. 325. Corey posted: 01.01.2021 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @324 Paul Menard never did open wheel racing. He started in karting, but I don't think that's considered open wheel. He went straight to stock cars after that. 326. possum posted: 01.01.2021 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @325 - it's a tad more complicated than that. As I recall Menard's career was something like karts -> limited late models -> SCCA (Trans AM? something with sporty cars) -> NASCAR. But as you say, no open wheel. The Menard-Indy storyline related to his father's many years as a 500 car owner. 327. JohnG posted: 01.01.2021 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @324 I wouldn't call them toxic for the most part. Too negative? For sure. Better analysis than you could find anywhere else in the world about NASCAR? I believe so. (I'm referring to 2008-2012.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: