|| *Comments on the 2011 Good Sam RV Insurance 500:* View the most recent comment <#231> | Post a comment <#post> 1. 00andJoe posted: 08.06.2011 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jason White qualifies for his first career Cup Series race. Good qualifying run for Dave Blaney, who gets his best start of the year. Whitney Motorsports qualifies for their first race after changing to Ford. The question is will they get to run the race on sunday or will Nature, M. take the checkered flag? 2. 00andJoe posted: 08.06.2011 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Gilliland also gets his best start of the season. 3. Jocke Persson posted: 08.07.2011 - 5:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How can Geoffrey Bodine fail to qualify if he is 42nd? 4. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 12:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really Brad? Darlington on steroids? A flat, 2.5 mile triangle is a 1.366 mile high banked egg on steroids? Six minutes into the pre race and I already am rolling my eyes. Where is Schrader? (The answer: probably racing on a dirt track somewhere. Yeah, Schrader rules) 5. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great. Now The Good Guy, Carl, blesses us with his presence. Look at that smile, what a great guy. And his decision had nothing to do with money. The huge last minute offer from Ford had nothing to with it. 6. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. What insightful analysis by Big Brad. Jeff Gordon is the real deal? Really? The 4 time champ with 84 wins? You sure they weren't all flukes? Ugh. Just for the record, I am a huge Tar Heel hoops fan, so I should love Brad. 7. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now that was precious, with Matt's youngest daughter trying to reach him. The lesson, as always, Matt Kenseth, the leader of RFR, rules. 8. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know what Jack Roush was doing right then? Texting Ricky Stenthouse to offer him the UPS car next year. 9. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just when I thought he was over it, David Ragan makes another boneheaded mistake that takes him out of the race on about the 20th lap, and maybe out of Chase contention. Actually, that was a bad lap for Roush Racing in general, because about 45 secodns earlier, Matt Kenseth and Greg Biffle tangled on the top of the homestretch, resulting in Kenseth hitting the wall and Biffle suffering left front damage. 10. 18fan posted: 08.07.2011 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Right as Rusty starts talking about Denny Hamlin not shifting he starts shifting. 11. Ryan posted: 08.07.2011 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We're about 80 laps in and it's time for a phantom caution or caution. 12. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.07.2011 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yup, another reason why David Ragan shouldn't return behind the wheel next year. He may have had a lot of momentum lately, but he'll be back to his usual mid-pack status if he feels his job is secure. 13. Brad posted: 08.07.2011 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN should be ashamed of themselves! This is the worst coverage of a race EVER! 2 minutes of racing... 5 minutes of commercials. Come back for pit stops... 5 more minutes of commercials! The next race should have no commercials. They have played all of next weeks today! I miss FOX! Oh... and whatg a boring race! 14. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is he gonna get another rain win? 15. . posted: 08.07.2011 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Possibly. At least he had a 5th place car today instead of a 25th place car. 16. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like sun and blue skies behind them. 17. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a gamble by the 2 team. Not sure it is all that wise with their points position and an 8th place car. Of course they are starting the drying process now, so it may be brilliant. But I wouldn't have risked it. 18. . posted: 08.07.2011 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If it works out, they'll be geniuses. If it doesn't, how much did they really have to lose? 19. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, if Joey Logano wins this one in the rain, it won't be the fluke the one at New Hampshire was, but if it resarts, watch for Jeff Gordon. He had the fastest car on the track before the rain hit, moving from 13th to sixth, and closing in on Earnhardt for fifth, before the rain hit. If the race restarts and runs to completion, Gordon might just win this one, which would set scores of records. If he wins, he would set modern records for wins (85) and top 5s (282) in the same event, while setting Pocono records for wins (6) and starting the furthest back for any Pocono winner (31st). 20. murb posted: 08.07.2011 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That move by David Ragan earlier was classic. It would have made Steve Wallace proud. 21. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, murb, that was a boneheaded move, as I mentioned in post #9. RCRandPenskeGuy, there's a possibility that not only might David Ragan might not be back, but the #6 car might not be back, at least full-time, depending on sponsorship. If that happens, Ragan might be in the #21 car next year for a part-time season. 22. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And, by the way, I didn't realize until the pre-race show that racing legend Rodger Ward actually designed the track. Ward won both the Indianapolis 500 and USAC championship in 1959 and 1962, then became an analyst for ABC's racing coverage in the late 1960s. Ward died in 2004. 23. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I lose, Paul Wolfe is a genius. Damn it feels good to be wrong sometimes. 24. Ryan posted: 08.07.2011 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Winning two-three races is actually really good." - Chad Knaus 25. murb posted: 08.07.2011 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race is starting to remind me of the 2002 Pennsylvania 500 that took all day to complete, haha 26. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb, I was thinking the same thing. I remember spending all afternoon waiting for that race to end. lol Luckily, it looks like this race might be run to its full distance. 27. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright Brad, remember Bristol last year? 28. Schroeder51 posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This will be very impressive if Brad wins while injured. 29. Crashalotski posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Johnson pulled a dick move on that restart, trying to win the race in the first corner when there was still 16 laps to go, with a car that was never going to be capable of leading anyway, and cost Busch the race. Idiot. Keselowski can't win a race without it falling right into his lap. 30. Darrell posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright you haters. Please explain why this doesn't count as a "real win" for Brad. I dare you. 31. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HELL YEAH, WAY TO GO BRAD!!! He did an awesome job keeping Kyle at bay, and it was also a very ballsy pit call just before the red flag by Paul Wolfe, but it won them the race. 32. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Editorial moment: YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 33. Schroeder51 posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He beat Kyle with a broken ankle. Wow. 34. Cooper posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boo Yah baby.... My favorite moment in my sports life. Sorry for being so in politically correct. But Hell Yeah!!!! 35. Corndog posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske Power! Also, Jimmie Johnson proves he is the biggest baby in the garage. Wow. 36. 18fan posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great drive by Brad and what a call by Paul Wolfe. Great drive for Kyle to finish 2nd after a spin to have a great shot at a win on one of his worst tracks. Loved the last lap duel between Kurt and Jimmie, especially the post race deal. 37. DaleJrFan20 posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell yeah, I was so happy to see BK win it! Am I the only one who was wondering when they'd go back to commercial after the red flag ended? "Also, Jimmie Johnson proves he is the biggest baby in the garage. Wow." AMEN!!! 38. Kinetic posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great win for Brad. That restart made the difference, and if I'm Kyle that's why I pick the outside on the restart. You can't have someone pass you on the outside. Jimmie whining like a baby after the race was a pleasure to watch. Gordon is keeping up the consistency every week now. 39. Ryan posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm Jimmie Johnson and five time champion and everyone is supposed to move out of the way for me." - Jimmie Johnson I don't like Jimmie Johnson or Kurt Busch but after Johnson passed him he DID in fact come down on Kurt. Kurt's right it's racing, and he isn't supposed to move out of the way for anyone, especially with big points on the line. Jimmie can race people hard (last restart), but no one is allowed to race him hard. Congrats to Brad K btw driving injured and winning. Awesome pit strategy when the rain came to get him track position. And then Jimmie Johnson taking it three wide on the restart helped Brad have the momentum on the outside and hold off Kyle Busch down the stretch. Bad call on Denny Hamlin to come down late and take 4 tires on last caution. Poor Joey Logano went from the pent house to the out house. Nice top ten finish for Dale, Jr. Good thing he got it because next week he won't. 40. StewartSmokesEm posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great, now we're going to have to hear about Keselowski winning on a bum ankle all friggin week, just like the media orgasm last year after Hamlin won on a torn ACL. Clearly it didn't affect how he drove, so I don't think it's a big deal. What won him the race was Busch moving down to block Johnson on the restart, which gave him the lead in the first corner, and with this track you can't hardly pass unless you are considerably faster. And Johnson's little tirade after the race was uncalled for. 41. murb posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've never agreed with everything Brad has done. But after today, I'm thinking that he may be my guy now. This year he's been impressing the hell out of me, and he's obviously proving that he's a championship caliber driver. I know a lot of people hate when current drivers are compared to Dale Earnhardt, but right now, if I had to pick someone out of the current group of guys that reminds me of the Intimidator, it would be Brad. (He reminds me of a young Dale, anyway.) So DSFF, I hope you don't mind me joining you in the Brad K. fan club, haha. Because I became one today. This was an incredible performance. 42. murb posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for Jimmie and Kurt, Jimmie CLEARLY came down on Kurt going down Long Pond. It was incredibly clear in the replay... 43. Boz posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice comeback by Stewart after the flat left front tire. Post #39, Hamlin took 2 tires but had a really bad pit stop. I missed it if they came back in for left side tires but I'm pretty sure he only took 2 on the final stop. 44. 18fan posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin actually took two tires on the last caution, but he had a horrible pit stop and his car had fallen off dramatically. 45. Kinetic posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What might be scary for the competition in the future is that Kyle Busch is improving his performance at some of the tracks he's been terrible at his whole career. Pocono is one of those, and this is his 3rd top-3 in his last 4 starts at the track. 46. Anonymous posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The truly sickening thing about this win is we may have what amounts to about a 20th place car and driver make the Chase this year. Keselowski either needs to make up several points positions, or drop out of the top 20 so we don't make the Chase even more of a joke than it already is. 47. 18fan posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just like Jeff Gordon said last year in the spring race at Texas. Jimmie sometimes feels like he should be treated differently than anybody else. Kurt's interview was great after the race. 48. That Guy posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who would have thought at the beginning of the year that Brad K would have more wins on the year than Johnson, Edwards, Stewart, and Hamlin after 21 races? 49. Ryan posted: 08.07.2011 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hamlin took 2 tires but had a really bad pit stop." Makes sense now because it seemed like a 4 tire stop. 50. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For starters, Johnson did not pull a "Busch League" move on that restart. He was trying to get the lead, but it didn't work, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with what he did, or attempted to do. He thought it was his best shot at the win, and tried. so what that it failed. No one was adversely affected by it. As for Brad Keselowski's win, it was one of the most courageous things I've seen across sports in a very long time. I don't think we, the average person, can have any idea of what he was going through in the car, and yet, whether you like him or not, his win ranks right up there among the most courageous things in modern sports history. I;ve been very critical of Brad, even saying that there may retribution from the roush camp for roughing up their junior drivers, but I give nothing but my full respect for Brad, because him winning today, with his physical condition and the utter domination of the Gibbs cars, was nothing short of a miracle, and of course, seeing him celebrate with his now-patented American flag celebration will, to any true American, never get old. And now for the big controversy after the race. Jimmie Johnson had every right to be upset with Kurt Busch, because it looked to me that Busch started that whole incident by simply driving into Johnson on the backstraight on the final lap. But that incident, which is somewhat similar to another Penske dirver vs. Hendrick driver incident that took place 13 years ago, may affect the entire garage area. The reason is that I think Kurt Busch awoke a sleeping giant today. Sleeping giants are best left sleeping, but Kurt Busch awoke one today, somewhat like what happened in that incident at Richmond between Rusty Wallace and Jeff Gordon in 1998. The entire garage area paid for that then, and I think the entire garage area is going to pay for what Kurt Busch caused today. 51. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just want to take this post to say what this win meant to, as a Brad Keselowski fan, somebody who jumped on his band wagon after the 2007 Memphis Truck race when he was given a shot and shined, a la David Mayhew last night, and has been on ever since because I really like the way he drives, his attitude towards racing, and his attitude towards life in general. Those last 13 laps felt like they were never going to end. My heart hasn't raced like that watching a race in over 10 years. My hands were tingling. Everything. I remembered why I fell in love with NASCAR. For moments like that. I haven't felt like that since I was pulling for that black #3 car. Brad doesn't quite mean to me what Dale meant, given that I became a fan of Dale's at such a young age, it was woven into my childhood. But he has me truly caring about a driver for the first time since we lost Dale. And his victory lane interview really pushed it up a level for me. Thank you Brad, thank youu for renewing my love for a sport I have, in recent years, wondered why I still loved. I honestly don't know exactly where his career is heading and what he will become, but I can't wait to see how it does. Congrats to Paul Wolfe for the ballsiest call of the year and for proving he is a Cup level crew chief, congrats to the whole Blue Deuce team for preparing a great car, for great pit stops, for making great adjustments, and congrats to Brad Winsalotski (feel the burn haters) for outdriving them with a broken and grotesquely swollen ankle. This, to me, is on par with Dale leading half the laps from the pole at the the Glen with a broken collarbone and sternum. 52. That Guy posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Brad can stay in the top 20, it looks like he will take full advantage of the "Jamie Mac" Rule thanks to the two wins. His season is similar to Jamie's 2010 since he has two wins but lacks the overall consistency to be higher in the points. 53. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I should have put this in my last post, but what I think may happen as a result of the Kurt Busch/Jimmie Johnson incident at the end and it's relation to the Wallace/Gordon incident in 1998 has a saying that goes like this. "Those who ignore history are often doomed to repeat it." The lead drivers from two organizations from 1998 had their incident, and now the lead drivers from the same two organizations have an incident 13 years later. If what I suspect could happen winds up happening, don't remind me to say "I told you so". 54. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you hit the mark right there with your comparison with this victory and that race at Watkins Glen in 1996 when Earnhardt won the pole and led as much of the race as he did with that broken sternum from his accident at Talladega. And yes, you are right to put this performace right up there with that one, along with, say Emmitt Smith lifting the Dallas Cowboys to the 1993 NFC East title, which led to the second of two consecutive Super Bowl victories, with his miraculous performance at the Meadowlands against the Giants, playing most of that game with one arm. And ironically, that charge to the pole position for Earnhardt at Watkins Glen that you mentioned with the broken sternum, was the final pole position of his legendary career, even though he would drive for four and a half more seasons without missing a race before his fatal crash at the end of the 2001 Daytona 500, Earnhardt would never again win a pole position. 55. TheSilverFox posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I just want to take this post to say what this win meant to, as a Brad Keselowski fan, somebody who jumped on his band wagon after the 2007 Memphis Truck race when he was given a shot and shined, a la David Mayhew last night, and has been on ever since because I really like the way he drives, his attitude towards racing, and his attitude towards life in general. Those last 13 laps felt like they were never going to end. My heart hasn't raced like that watching a race in over 10 years. My hands were tingling. Everything. I remembered why I fell in love with NASCAR. For moments like that. I haven't felt like that since I was pulling for that black #3 car. Brad doesn't quite mean to me what Dale meant, given that I became a fan of Dale's at such a young age, it was woven into my childhood. But he has me truly caring about a driver for the first time since we lost Dale. And his victory lane interview really pushed it up a level for me. Thank you Brad, thank youu for renewing my love for a sport I have, in recent years, wondered why I still loved. I honestly don't know exactly where his career is heading and what he will become, but I can't wait to see how it does." Is this a serious post? I think you and your life-sized cut out of Brad Keselowski need to get a room. And here, take some tissues while you're at it. I only hope you use them to dry up your tears and not for cleaning up anything else. To me Keselowski is just another arrogant punk, of which NASCAR is over-run with these days. Him, the Busch's, Harvick, Edwards, and many more are part of what is continually ruining this sport for me. They drive like A-holes on the track, and even when they are trying not to act like A-holes off it, you can tell every one of them is holding back on their smug, inner-A-hole that wants to get out. Even Jimmie Johnson, who has for the most part been a good champion for this sport, has been acting like an entitled baby lately. 56. Ryan posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, if you actually believe that Jimmie Johnson was in the right today you might just be the biggest homer in the history of sports fans. "No one was adversely affected by it." Actually it did affect Kyle Busch's chances of winning which I didn't mind, but I agree that it was racing and that Johnson went for it and it didn't work out for him, but then for Johnson to complain about Kurt racing him hard and then Johnson to come down on him FIRST and to act like it's Kurt's fault... BIG PROBLEM 57. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "somebody who jumped on his band wagon after the 2007 Memphis Truck race when he was given a shot and shined" Same here, and I've also been a fan of his ever since. This recent streak of momentum that the entire Penske team and Brad have been on recently makes me feel a lot better about his season and his future. After Richmond, I gloomily predicted that he would repeat his 2010 season (which was terrible to say the least), but that same week Penske made changes within the team and lo and behold, they started bringing fast cars to the track and Brad has been on a roll since then. Hell, he could even have THREE wins this year if he didn't get stuck behind Kasey Kahne on that restart in the Coke 600 (not to say he would have won for sure, but he did seem to have the best momentum on that restart). 58. StevenWallaceCan'tDrive posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "his win ranks right up there among the most courageous things in modern sports history." *pukes* Ok, first off- *pukes some more* Ugh, yuck. Ok I think I'm done. First off, no it's not. Secondly, you must not watch many sports outside of auto racing. Lay off the hyperbole a bit next time, I'd like to keep down my dinner. 59. Kinetic posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "his win ranks right up there among the most courageous things in modern sports history." Not even close. 60. Anonymous posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No one was adversely affected by it." Actually, I can name a few: -Kyle Busch, who lost the lead, and subsequently the race because of it -Paul Menard, who lost his wildcard spot because Keselowski won -David Ragan, who even after his problems today could have still been in the hunt for a wildcard had Keselowski not won. Now he's all but eliminated -Every other driver in the Chase, because now Keselowski would start only 10 points out of the lead, and either tied or ahead of them despite their superior performance in the season thus far because of NASCAR's dumb Chase system -Every other driver between 11th and 20th, and even those just outside the top 20 that haven't won, because now their path to the wildcard is even more difficult So yeah, other than adversely affecting half of the drivers in the field by allowing Keselowski to win, that move by Johnson didn't affect anyone at all. It only could have possibly drastically altered NASCAR history, that's it. No biggie. He should be allowed to do whatever he wants because he's Jimmie Johnson, everyone else should just get out of the way. 61. joey2448 posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #37...yea if I remember correctly, there were no commercial breaks for, like 40 laps or something. That's new from ESPN, haha. I never would have believed that Brad is eligible for the Chase, even after his Kansas win. Good run for Junior, he needs to get some momentum back. Loved the Kurt Busch/Jimmie Johnson thing at the end. 62. JimmieJohnsonsNeatlyTrimmedBeard posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch finished 2nd in two NASCAR races today. He's also the only driver to ever win two NASCAR races on the same day, although those were Truck and Nationwide races. And I only bring that up to ignore what happened at the end of the race and the fact that I'm disappointed with the way Johnson handled himself afterward. And I will agree that he probably did cost Busch the win, but I don't see anything wrong with what he did. But mark my words, Johnson will have 3 wins going into the Chase. 63. Ryan posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Those last 13 laps felt like they were never going to end. My heart hasn't raced like that watching a race in over 10 years. My hands were tingling. Everything. I remembered why I fell in love with NASCAR. For moments like that. I haven't felt like that since I was pulling for that black #3 car. Brad doesn't quite mean to me what Dale meant, given that I became a fan of Dale's at such a young age, it was woven into my childhood. But he has me truly caring about a driver for the first time since we lost Dale." Wow DSFF, that is pretty deep. I'm a huge Earnhardt fan and I liked Brad when he started to drive for JR Motorsports coming from Coleman in Busch/Nationwide. I like that he didn't care to mix it up with anyone of the "Busch wackers" at the time in Busch/Nationwide and then he made that move at 'dega on Carl to win in '09. That was HUGE win for him. I know Hendrick wanted to sign him, but couldn't due to the only four car rule for owners and Hendrick even told him he would try to sign him down the road if the oppurtunity ever presented itself. When he went over to Dodge and Penske and then Miller Lite it was weird pulling for him, because in the past I always pulled against Penske because of Rusty Wallace drove for him because of my Earnhardt connection, and then Kurt Busch drove for him Penske and because of the car make Penske had (Pontiac, Ford, and Dodge) I didn't like that because I always drove or pulled for Earnhardt who drove a Chevy since the early 80's. But it's good to see other guys win and guys to mix it up and race guys hard. Eventually I think he will be a threat at about every track. 64. 00andJoe posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #3: Remember the top 35 rule. Of the go-or-go-home cars Bodine was ninth, and only the eight fastest (or seventh + most recent past champion) GOGH teams make the show... ----- I'm hereby christening David Ragan "Dr. Jekyll and Driver Hyde". He'd better get back on the hot streak he was on before Indy or that win isn't going to keep his seat from getting so hot it burns him. ----- I did see Jimmie Johnson being restrained by his own team from going after Kurt Busch, didn't I? I didn't halluncuiate that? Didn't think so. There might be chinks in Iron Man's armour after all... ----- And the Dale Earnhardt Memorial "Pain? What Pain?" trophy goes to Brad Keselowski. Nice work Brad! 65. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan, I am not a homer in any way, shape, or form. I judge my opinions on what I see, and my eyes told me that Kurt Busch started that whole mess by driving into the side of Johnson's car, and then Johnson drove down to reciprocate. What happened after the race was deserved. If it happened the other way around, I would have called it the same way, and that is the way I saw it. After all, Johnson flat wrecked Kurt at Sonoma a few years ago, and then they had a much less severe coming together at Chicago later the same year. As for those saying that Keselowski's win does't rank up there with the most courageous performances in recent sports history, I say BALONEY to that. I've watched sports for close to 30 years, including baseball, football, and basketball, and I'd say what happened today with Keselowski ranks right up there with the most courageous performances I've ever seen. I mean, I didn't expect Keselowski to come anywhere near being able to finish the race, and then he goes out and WINS it. Certainly, the lengthy rain delay may have helped, but Keselowski went out there and just took it, beating a faster car, quite frankly. In my mind, Keselowski's performance today ranks up there with Emmitt Smith's performance in the Meadowlands I mentioned, as well as Dale Earnhardt's performance at Watkins Glen, and Jack Youngblood (SB XIV) and Terrell Owens (SB XXXIX) playing in Super Bowls with broken legs. But I will say that probably the most courageous perfromance I've ever seen in a sporting event occurred the same year as Earnhardt's performace at Watkins Glen, and that was a couple of months earlier when Buddy Lazier won the Indianapolis 500 with a broken back in 1996. Of course, there have been many other courageous performances in sporting events, and any poster is more than welcome to list them if they so desire. 66. dUDE gUY posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure Brad's win was "amongst the most courageous things in modern sports history", but it definitely did take some guts to hold off Kyle Busch for the last 16 laps at Pocono with a broken, swollen ankle. Very impressive win for the 2 team, who was a factor for pretty much the whole race. I knew I was a Special K fan for a reason. Earnhardt Jr. had a great run all race, running in the top ten for most of the night, and was a top five car at the end despite finishing 9th. Gordon recovered from a poor starting spot to finish 6th. All the Hendrick cars ran great all night, though it seemed that they just needed a lap or two after restarts to get wound up. Paul Menard follows up a win at Indy with a solid top ten at Pocono. He wasn't a front runner, but hovered around 7th place all night long and finished 10th. I thought they might call the race when the rain started pouring, but it cleared up about a half hour later. It was even sunny towards the end of the race. IMO, it wasn't terribly exciting, but was still a pretty good race. 67. Anon posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is it just me, or did Brad Keselowski beat Busch to start line on that last restart? Can anyone find conclusive evidence that Busch was actually ahead, or is NASCAR sweeping this one under the rug? The view on the TV unfortunately looks like Keselowski was just barely ahead, but that's still a violation and it would have changed the outcome of the race. Might hear more about that in the coming week as the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists come out of the woodwork. 68. 00andJoe posted: 08.07.2011 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red flag time (4th caution) was 1:40:46. 69. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The lead drivers from two organizations from 1998 had their incident, and now the lead drivers from the same two organizations have an incident 13 years later. If what I suspect could happen winds up happening, don't remind me to say "I told you so"." I am afraid you are right. What people have to remember is that, in 1998, Jeff didn't get off to a great start. He won 4 times, but was inconsistent, and if I'm not mistaken, Rusty wrecking him at Richmond dropped him to 4th in points. That woke the sleeping giant and Jeff went on a tear that I still remember well, a tear that demoralized everyone except Gordon fans. I, too, think Kurt may have done the same. Kinda like Mike Ford did last year after Texas. Sure he had it coming (as did Gordon), but let sleeping dogs lie. 70. TimmyQuivy posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski: I just want to dedicate this win to all the brave heroes who died in Afghanistan. Jamie Little: Well, I'm sure a lot of them were your fans. Speaking of fans, how about a shameless plug for a Sprint promotion where we give away money? That's seems like something we should focus on instead. AMERICA!!! 71. BillWilliamson posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ryan, I am not a homer in any way, shape, or form." Maybe not for Johnson, but you certainly seem to be one for Keselowski. Because this: "I'd say what happened today with Keselowski ranks right up there with the most courageous performances I've ever seen. I mean, I didn't expect Keselowski to come anywhere near being able to finish the race, and then he goes out and WINS it. Certainly, the lengthy rain delay may have helped, but Keselowski went out there and just took it, beating a faster car, quite frankly." ....shows a clear favoritism toward Brad by ignoring the circumstances that set up this win. He didn't just go out there and "take it", he got clean air with a little help from Jimmie Johnson, and then he was pulling away. So how was that beating a faster car? I'm not saying he didn't earn it, but you're painting a pretty rose-colored picture of the end of this race. It's not like Keselowski couldn't walk, hell he even stood up on his window after he won without much of a problem from the looks of it. I was actually more impressed by Hamlin's comeback after his ACL problem last year. I've had a torn ACL, and I've had a broken foot, and it's pretty easy for me to pick which one was a bigger hassle and would have caused me more pain sitting in a car for that long. And yes, that huge break in the middle of the race certainly isn't helping your case. And as far as this ranking amongst the most courageous moments in sports history, give me a break. That's the biggest Keselowski-homer thing that's ever been written in human history. For someone who clearly knows so much about racing, I'm surprised and a little disheartened by your sudden Keselowski favoritism. I thought you were a knowledgeable, objective fan normally, but this is a slip-up. 72. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Unimpressed. ESPN did not apologize for Busch's cussing, which while part of American culture, is unacceptable in NASCAR's eyes. I think NASCAR needs to dump ESPN and go to exclusive FOX and TNT cause at least they would have been less biased about that last lap incident, and would not have condoned the swearing. Watch the penalties fly. Remember Loudon 2005 and Indy 2007? 73. potatosalad48 posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know I'm the only Johnson supporter on here, but here we go. First of all, Jimmie got loose at the exit of one and had to chase the car, which allowed Busch to get along side him, when Johnson got loose again and got into Kurt. Kurt then decided to get mad and tried to wreck Jimmie down the backstretch. And Jimmie was not complaining about Busch racing him, he was complaining about Busch trying to take him out. If you don't agree with me, which I know most of you won't, then feel free to call me out. I don't care. This is an internet chatroom, not real life. In real life, people can't hide behind anonimimity like this site. So by all means complain, sit on here for hours telling me I'm wrong. I'll be out having a life. 74. Smokefan05 posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only saw the last 10 laps of the race, so i can't speak on what i missed. But i did see JJ and KB go at. I think Jeff Gordon called it last year, Jimmie thinks he should be treated differently then everyone else. I think Superman is feeling the heat from his fellow racers because they are catching him. Congrats to Brad on winning. Ok, now that haters can hate because they have nothing else to do to help them with there shallow existance. ;-) 75. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with you potatosalad48. Busch instigated the whole thing, but there is still the handling like a mature person aspect, which neither Busch nor Johnson has mastered. 76. Kinetic posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting take Smokefan. You seemed to love to hate Kyle Busch in the past, has your stance changed? 77. RLB posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What is this retarded comparison of the Johnson/Busch incident to the Gordon/Wallace incident in 1998? Busch was side-swiped by Johnson and there was no wreck just a little bump back. Gordon was purposely turned and crashed very hard,without any in-race provocation. you people want to fantasise about Johnson having a Gordon 1998, i'm sorry but I don't see the comparison. 78. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And speaking of incidents off the first turn, what on God's green earth was Montoya doing when he ran Kasey Kahne into the wall, wrecking both Kahne and himself. That was even worse than what happened at the end of the Truck race at IRP between Todd Bodine and Austin Dillon. What happened between Bodine and Dillon was purely unintentional, as Bodine later admitted that he never kewn that Dillon was even there, but the incident in which Montoya took Kahne into the wall looked like it was intentional to me, as it looked like Kahne was 4-5 feet alongside Montoya when he decided to put Kahne in the wall, wrecking not only Kanhne, but himself as well. 79. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RLB, I'm not saying that Johnson will have a run like Gordon had in 1998, though he might have a smaller version of it. I was just saying that the incident had, in my opinion, woken a sleeping giant. Only time will tell from here, but Johnson was about as upset as I've ever seen him. 80. RLB posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872,Honestly I hope it has the opposite effect(yeah right) on Johnson. 81. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I too think Johnson is going to be even more motivated to go out and win the championship yet again after the deal with he and Kurt. Sure, the #48 has had a fruitless season when it comes to the win column but they're still second in points, 9 behind Carl. I think they'll be in great shape as they always are come cha$e time. 82. Anonymous posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I must say i'm actually proud of nascar for finishing this race, with the amount of time it takes to dry pocono i really thought they would call it. glad they didn't, as i hate all the toyota driving crybabies at JGR. Also glad that all of the cautions today were necessary. Both Pocono races this year were pretty good. NA$CAR didn't screw up either of them. Great call by Paul Wolfe & Steve Addington to pit just before the rain, and great job by BK holding off Kyle Busch, and by the way Kyle was the leader and chose the inside for the final restart, what JJ did on the final restart was perfectly fine, JJ isn't looking out for Kyle's chance to win, Kyle could've taken the outside and forced Brad to deal with Jimmie. As for the last lap it appeared to me that there were two seperate incidents between the 48 and 22, I saw one replay where the 48 came down into the 22 and kurt retaliated and another from Kurts roof cam where it looked like JJ never touched him and Kurt doored the 48, i could be wrong, i only saw it once as for my 2 best drivers, Gordon is getting better every week, and Harvick should either stop experimenting or figure out what the hell is making the 29 so freaking loose every week. 83. BON GORDON posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All I know is that the Johnson/Busch incident isn't the first. These two drivers have had trouble in the past couple seasons. I don't see it as a big deal but I don't believe Kurt Busch did anything wrong. As much as a dislike Busch I dislike Johnson as well. Jimmie Johnson gets the crying towel from me. It's just hard racing and they both need to stop complaining, especially Jimmie Johnson. Anyway great run for Jeff Gordon again. Not as good as I thought they would be. They really struggled the first quarter of the race but came back to finish in 6th place. Thats about as good as they could get the car. If Brad K. can stay in the Top 20 in points they have a great shot at making the chase. Congrats to the #2 crew for a good win. Paul Menard, David Ragan, and Denny Hamlin all can get another win though but I doubt it. Ok, maybe Denny Hamlin but I'm about 80% sure Bad Brad will make the chase. He's running pretty good this year. 84. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BillWilliamson, I do rank it among the most courageous things I've seen in the 30 or so years I've been watching sports. Maybe not in the top 5, but right up there with some of them. I might not have that opinion if this victory occurred at a place like Daytona, Talladega, or one of the high-speed "cookie-cutter" tracks. But for it to come at a place where you have to shift and use the left foot, considering he had a broken left ankle, and just five days after suffering that broken left ankle in a crash that could very well have killed him, yes I would consider it a vitcory of great courage. Whether it was smart to drive the entire 500 miles with a broken left ankle at a place like Pocono is another question, since most of the most courageous triumphs in sports are also not entirely intelligent ones. 85. Kinetic posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Brad had won at Martinsville, than yeah it would've been up there. Pocono has mega long straightaways, so the driver has a lot of time to rest. 86. Anonymous posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) adding to my #82 post, kurt and especially jimmie shouldn't be mad, they were racing hard, bounced off each other on the final lap, neither of them wrecked, or lost a spot to anyone else, they finished 3rd and 4th 87. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And also, I totally disagree with these teams "experimenting" to try to get wins and the extra points that come with them for the start of the Chase. All that's likely to do is to get you behind. Whatever happened to doing whatever is was that got you there. Now I understand the RCR #29 team doing some experimenting, becuase even the three races that he won, he didn't really run well in them. His nine combined laps led in those three wins tell you that. But history tells you that experimenting on car setups will only get you behind where you were when you were successful. Now taking in-race gambles, like trying to stretch fuel mileage, and tire strategy gambles to earn extra victories is completely understandable, but not setup experimenting, because that will get you nowhere fast. History should tell these teams that. That's another reason I like Gordon's and Kenseth's chances in the Chase, because their crew chiefs don't seem to be the kind to take seetup experimental risks, but rather to do what got then into contention for the title to start with. Temas that experiment with car setup will only get behind by soing so, because there's a far greater possibility off getting it wrong than there is getting it right. And sometimes, you get a great car setup by simply stumbling onto something by accident. 88. Bronco posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm happy that the race was restarted, because it would have been appalling to see the #20 team get another rain shortened win, even if this time it would have been more deserving than Loudon 2009. As for the outcome? Yes, it was impressive for Brad to win despite his injuries, but let's not act as if what he did was unprecedented in sports history. What is disgusting is that we are likely staring at an 18th to 20th place team being eligible to compete for a championship a month from now on the basis of two wins. #46 said it, the wild card concept is just going to further erode the Chase's credibility. With regards to the Summer Showdown, what if none of the eligible drivers win at Atlanta? Does the prize money go the highest finishing driver or is it not awarded? Second consecutive August Pocono race where Jimmie and Kurt get together. Anyone else find it funny that a guy with the last name "Speed" is doing start and parks? Dale Jr gets his first top 10 since the June Pocono race. He basically has to leave the Glen with a top 20 and stay out of trouble at the next four races and he should make the Chase. First time in his career that Hamlin has finished outside the top 10 at both Pocono races in a season. 89. BLabonte47 posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie must have forgotten about this one year ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thxd1vgWLTw 90. Smokefan05 posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Interesting take Smokefan. You seemed to love to hate Kyle Busch in the past, has your stance changed?" Somewhat. He has grown up because Coach Gibbs and his sponsers aren't putting up with his cry baby antics anymore. I respect him for his talent but i'm still not sold on his mental state come championship time. #48 still have the advantage in that area. Has the talent to beat Jimmie, but he has yet to pull it off. Kyle will gets his but he may have to wait until Jimmie is retired or on the downswing. 91. IglooRacer posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to brad, holding off Kyle who I thought would have passed him back. Bronco- I wouldn't worry about it, as much as I like brad he won't be a factor in the chase anyway. Hamlin who I believe holds the other wild card might, he proved it last year. But he and his team need to get their act together and run consistent. What's up with jimmie? I was listening to the post race press conference and Kurt said it was supposed to be two guys racing and rubbin each other hard. And that's what it was, jimmie didn't wreck Kurt and Kurt didn't wreck jimmie. So to me it should have been fair game. I've said it before, rubbin is racing, wrecking is not. 92. Brad24 posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm sure BK2 is using the famous Earnhardt phrase "It hurt so good!" 93. IglooRacer posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs- I think jimmie tried experimenting before the chase in 2005 and didn't work out for them, I agree with you. Teams like harvick need to keep working on their main baseline set ups and improve on them not trying something that's waaaay out of left field. Harvick won three early races but could have had more IMO had they stuck to the basics. 94. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interestingly, the 44 laps and 110 miles that that Joey Logano led in this race were career highs for him in a Cup race, and if he had been awarded the win due to rain at 124 laps, it would have been deserved, not like his win at Loudon in 2009. And by the way, why did the #13 car with Casey Mears start-and-park? I thought that car was fully sponsored for the entire season. And here are some other stats associated with this race: Denny Hamlin pushed past the 5,000 laps led mark in his career. Joe Nemechek tied Geoff Bodine for 24th all-time with 572 starts. (though Bodine's number seems to change, but I have him at 572 starts, as he failed to qualify for this race) Tony Stewart tied Cecil Gordon for 37th all-time with 449 starts. Matt Kenseth tied Jim Paschal for 42nd all-time with 421 career starts. Counting the 19 500-mile IndyCar races held at Pocono from 1971-'89, this was the 16th win at Pocono for Roger Penske, most all-time. Penske cars won eight of the 19 Pocono 500 IndyCar races with Mark Donohue (1971, the first one), Tom Sneva (1977), Bobby Unser (1980), Rick Mears (three times), and Danny Sullivan (the final one in 1989). This win was also Penske's eighth NASCAR win, as Keselowski joins Rusty Wallace (four times), Jeremy Mayfield (twice), Ryan Newman (July 2003), and Kurt Busch (Aug. 2007) as Penske drivers to have won NASCAR races there. 95. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IglooRacer, experimenting with setups has never worked for anyone that has tried it. What the teams should do is to keep doing what got them there. There's an old country proverb that goes like this: "When you're invited to the biggest party of the year, you dance with who brung you." 96. Sean posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Experimenting with setups? Isn't that what Jimmie Johnson's team does all the time in the second third once they're solidly in the chase? 97. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Johnson pulled a dick move on that restart, trying to win the race in the first corner when there was still 16 laps to go, with a car that was never going to be capable of leading anyway, and cost Busch the race. Idiot. Keselowski can't win a race without it falling right into his lap." No, Brad can't win a race without some fans in denial trying to call it a fluke. Had it been Kyle winning from 2nd on that restart, you and every other Kyle fan would go off about how great he is and how he's such a closer. So Brad won on a restricter plate track, a fuel mileage race, but now he wins a race under green without strategy, and you want to say it fell right into his lap. So what is that now? 3 Cup flukes and 14 Nationwide flukes? You ever think that Kyle's block might've cost him? There aren't "what ifs" in racing, buddy. Racing is capitilizing on other people's mistakes, or making less mistakes than everybody else. Scoreboard, my friend. Brad got himself the lead himself and held on. Even Dave Rogers in his interview prior to the final restart admitted that Brad was likely the better car. I just take pride that the few sour apples about this win are just bitter that Brad won. Well, enjoy it, my friends. 98. Anonymous posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Brad Keselowski's first career victory in the Cup Series. 99. cjs3872 posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous, what are you talking about? This is his second win this year and his third overall. 100. V12 Matra posted: 08.07.2011 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 97. Just dont bother with some of these people. If they had actually watched the race (gasp) they would have realized that the 2 and the 18 were running near identical lap times on the last run before the final yellow. Basically it was all about who got the better restart, since the cars seemed to be so close. If you can hold off a driver like Kyle Busch without a vastly superior car for 16 laps, then you have earned the win. 101. posted: 08.07.2011 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle Busch finished 2nd in two NASCAR races today. He's also the only driver to ever win two NASCAR races on the same day, although those were Truck and Nationwide races." Kyle is probably also the only guy to finish 1st and 2nd in two NASCAR races on the same day. On July 7, 2007 at Daytona Kyle won the Nationwide race and then lost the Cup race later that day by inches to Jamie McMurray. 102. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 08.07.2011 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad's already matched the Blue Deuce's win total for each of the past 2 seasons. Ditching the #12 team was the greatest thing Roger Penske could ever do for BK. 103. Alex posted: 08.07.2011 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I gained a lot of respect for Brad today. I didn't think he could make it in Cup still after 2 not very impressive wins and mediocre runs, but he's turned it around and won with screwed up feet & ankles. I also love his support for the Troops. 104. irony posted: 08.07.2011 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does aero push have the opposite effect on Kyle's car, or did he over drive the shiz out of it? Does the sun ever shine in Long Pond, PA? 105. IglooRacer posted: 08.08.2011 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "when you're invited to the biggest party of the year, you dance with who brung you" Cjs- I couldn't have said It better myself. I missed the debris caution, was it legit? 106. Ryan posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I judge my opinions on what I see, and my eyes told me that Kurt Busch started that whole mess by driving into the side of Johnson's car, and then Johnson drove down to reciprocate. What happened after the race was deserved." Get some glasses or contacts then... If you go look at it again, watch right when they come off the turn and your boy goes down on Kurt. Look from the view straight ahead that's in front of them. 99 percent of the people can see it, not for sure why 100 can't. What should have happened didn't and that should have been Kurt laying him out when Johnson and Johnson baby products came to his car after the race. "I missed the debris caution, was it legit?" No, and I called it... Post 11 107. Ryan posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "My name is Jimmie Johnson and my crap tastes delicious." 108. Hal posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle Busch finished 2nd in two NASCAR races today. He's also the only driver to ever win two NASCAR races on the same day, although those were Truck and Nationwide races." Kyle is probably also the only guy to finish 1st and 2nd in two NASCAR races on the same day. On July 7, 2007 at Daytona Kyle won the Nationwide race and then lost the Cup race later that day by inches to Jamie McMurray." So the lesson is, if Kyle Busch is running two NASCAR races in the same day, bet big money on him to win or place in both of them. He's getting a lot better at Pocono lately. And this is his 9th podium finish on the year (three 1st's, two 2nd's, four 3rd's). 109. Talk4Tar posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let the Haters Hate. Even with all the adversity going into the weekend, Brad Keselowski takes the win, and is now well in place to backdoor his way into the Chase, just to spite all those whiners ever more. It's a great day to be a BK2 fan! 110. irony posted: 08.08.2011 - 2:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I want to give my opinion that if you view the Chase as a playoff system and not just a gimmicky points reset, I think a driver with 2 wins deserves to be in. McMurray last year won the two biggest races of the year, and finished top 5 in all of the other big races. He deserved to be in. Brad may not be having a McMurray type season, but he's accomplished more than Dale Jr., who is in the top 10 in points. There's going to be some undeserving drivers make the Chase with this wild card format though. I just don't have an issue with a multiple winner being in. 111. 18fan posted: 08.08.2011 - 2:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The wild card drivers I don't think get bonus points for their wins in Chase seeding. As a Kyle fan I was disappointed to see him lose this race that would've been a great win for him, but Brad drove great at the end. Once he got track position after Paul Wolfe's great pit call, he never ran below fourth. Kyle and Brad were very evenly matched there at the end and it made for an interesting finish, not the spread out, leader is ahead by 5 seconds finishes we usually get at Pocono. Kyle now has the most top 5 finishes this year with 11(he only had 10 last year) and is one top 10 behind Carl Edwards for the most top 10s. This has been maybe his best all around season in Cup. At this stage in 2008, after 21 races, he had 7 wins, 12 top 5s(only one more than this year), 13 top 10s(same as this year), and 1079 laps led(1087 laps led this year). 112. Rusty posted: 08.08.2011 - 3:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I want to give my opinion that if you view the Chase as a playoff system and not just a gimmicky points reset, I think a driver with 2 wins deserves to be in. McMurray last year won the two biggest races of the year, and finished top 5 in all of the other big races. He deserved to be in. Brad may not be having a McMurray type season, but he's accomplished more than Dale Jr., who is in the top 10 in points. There's going to be some undeserving drivers make the Chase with this wild card format though. I just don't have an issue with a multiple winner being in." I couldn't disagree more. The points system is about rewarding the drivers who run the best on a consistent basis. It is nice that Brad has two wins, but in the other 19 races he has an average finish of 19.9 with only one top five and four top 10s. I like Brad, but I don't like rewarding drivers for a good race or two. This weekend is the FIRST time all year he has been higher than 20th in points and he is in the drivers' seat for the Chase with five races to go, that isn't what the points system is about. Don't come and call me a Brad hater or some crap, I'm a Penske Racing and Brad fan, but I call it like I see it. McMurray didn't deserve the Chase either, he may have won some the big races but the other ones matter too. His terrible inconsistency rightfully kept him from the Chase. The wild card, just like the Chase, is Brian Frances' stupid way of creating some fake drama and excitement. I remember the good years of racing where we didn't need any of this fake drama crap that NASCAR tries to create, it was way more exciting than anything we see now. That 1992 championship weekend in Atlanta was a classic, we didn't need a Chase to have an exciting finish. 113. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 6:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, you are right, the Wild Card drivers do not get the bonus points, which is why it was important for Jeff Gordon to get into (and stay in) the top ten with his two wins. At 50 points ahead of 11th place, he looks pretty safe to be able to use those bonus points, but what he has gained in the last two months, he could just as easily lose with two bad races. As for Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and Tony Stewart being in jeopardy of not making the Chase, even though they haven't yet won this year. As long as they keep extending the distance they have between 10th and 11th, they're OK. entering the race at Pocono, the distance between 10th and 11th was 19 points. After the race, it's now 23 points, which, under this year's points system is half a full race, and the distance betwee 10th and 12th is 41 points, which is nearly a full race. If Denny Hamlin has one bad race, it will be virtually impossible for Stewart and Dale, Jr. to both miss the Chase this year, and it will be difficult, if not impossible for Hamlin to catch either of them if he has even one bad race, because that would mean that Earnhardt and/or Stewart would have to have two bad races in the last six for Hamlin to catch them. Actually, Hamlin's best shot, if he doesn't win again in the next six races, may be for that Brad Keselowski to drop out of the top 20 in points. Right now Hamlin is just 33 points ahead of Paul Menard, and if either Clint Bowyer, Greg Biffle, or Paul Menard win in the last six races before the Chase, Hamlin would be in jeopardy of missing the Chase for the first time. A win by Bowyer or Biffle puts them in the mix, while a win by Menard, which would be his second, would knock Hamlin out. 114. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 7:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, the 1992 championship was a "classic", because nobody wanted to win it. Alan Kulwicki got it only because he led at the end of the final race. Had there been another race left, he would have probably found a way to blow it, as well. 115. IglooRacer posted: 08.08.2011 - 10:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm gonna say my part about the wild card. It's both good and bad. Good because it's made wins more important, alot of drivers have taken more risks to win one. Only three wins is the most a driver has this season, in the words of Kyle petty, now that is incredible right there. Bad because it does, like Bronco said, erode the chase credibility. Someone who is 20th in points in the first 26 races isn't even close to being championship material. But at the same time ask yourself this NASCAR fans, do any of you think brad keselowski will be a threat in the chase anyway? From my point of view it won't matter, he will probably finish between 10th-12th in points anyway. I believe it's an okay idea, the wild card has contributed to seeing alot more different winners this year, almost going for a record. You fans wanted drivers to race for wins, not points, and you got it. 116. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 11:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) There have been seasons in the last 20-25 years in which no driver won more more than five times. It occurred in 1991-'92, and in 2002 when the most wins a driver had during those seasons was five. In 1991, Davey Allison and Harry Gant led the circuit with five wins. In 1992, Allison tied with Bill Elliott for the most wins, again with just five, and in 2002, conservative Matt Kenseth, of all people, was the only driver to even reach five victories for the season, so the parity (or mediocrity, if you want to call it that) has existed before. It's just that not many people can remember it. And it looks like, unless something unforeseen happens, 2011 may be a repeat of those other seasons mentioned. Who knows, maybe nobody will even get to five wins this year, though I find that possibility improbable. 117. Cooper posted: 08.08.2011 - 11:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who cars about the credibility of the playoff system? Every god damn sport has their problems with the playoffs. For God sakes the Seahawks made the NFL playoffs with a 7-9 record. You don't see them whining. The NBA once had a team that was 10 games under .500 make the playoffs, and for god sakes the NHL offers points for losing.... It's just something that people like to complain about. Like taxes and weather. The whole point of the chase is to give the 12 teams that have the best chance to win a championship. And C'mon, Brad has just as good of a chance to win as Ryan freakin Newman or GASP Dale Jr. In the 12 races since Roger Penske fixed the team issues at Richmond, here are Brad's stats... 2 Wins, 3 Top 5's, 6 Top 10's Yeah, they really don't belong in the chase right...because Dale Jr has shown a lot more... 0 Wins, 1 Top 5, 4 Top 10's ***Shakes Head*** 118. Anonymous posted: 08.08.2011 - 11:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race trivia: Jason White finishes 32nd in the #32 (3 laps down) in his first-ever Cup start. Todd Bodine made only his second Cup start of the year, and his first in the #66 subbing for Michael McDowell who was running the NNW series this weekend. It was a start and park appearance. He also had one start (and one DNQ) in the #60 early in the season. Front Row Motorsports puts all four of its cars in the starting field for the first time since adding the #55. Robby Gordon Motorsports had the #77 with Scott Wimmer listed on the prelimary entry list for this event, but withdrew it. Robby started and parked in the #7 himself. Landon Cassill led twice for two laps, and has now led in 5 of the last 8 races, going back to Kansas. 119. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Anonymous, lets add to the facts you mentioned the fact that Joey Logano set career highs for laps led (44) and miles led (110) in a single Cup race, as well as the #13 car doing a start-and-park. And again, why that team did a start-and-park when they are supposed to be fully sponsored is beyond me. Incidentally, before the race yesterday, Logano had led 101 laps in 95 career starts. Yesterday, he led almost half that many alone, yet his wretched Trevor Bayne-like luck struck him down again when he had a flat tire late, resulting in a disheartening 26th-place finish. 120. Red posted: 08.08.2011 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the chase would have more credibility if they made the field smaller, especially in today's NASCAR where we only have 30 full-time teams. I would suggest an eight driver field; top six in points, plus two wild cards based on wins and being in the top 15 in points. Also, while I think the new 43-1 points system is successful in making it simpler to understand and calculate, it puts way too much emphasis on consistency and avoiding bad luck, and not enough on running up front. The difference between 2nd and 3rd is the same as the difference between 42nd and 43rd...that is totally ridiculuous. As cjs3872 has mentioned a few times, I fully believe this chase will be won by whoever has the least amount of bad luck, and NOT by who's the fastest. That is ass backwards. The new system may be creating more drama in the first 26 races, but in the chase it will be the most conservative pussyfooting we've ever seen, because one bad race will pretty much eliminate any shot at the title, in my opinion. I hope I'm wrong, but I can totally see someone winning the title by finishing 8th in every chase race without leading a single lap (cough*Harvick*cough). 121. Rusty posted: 08.08.2011 - 12:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Who cars about the credibility of the playoff system? Every god damn sport has their problems with the playoffs. For God sakes the Seahawks made the NFL playoffs with a 7-9 record. You don't see them whining. The NBA once had a team that was 10 games under .500 make the playoffs, and for god sakes the NHL offers points for losing.... It's just something that people like to complain about. Like taxes and weather. The whole point of the chase is to give the 12 teams that have the best chance to win a championship. And C'mon, Brad has just as good of a chance to win as Ryan freakin Newman or GASP Dale Jr. In the 12 races since Roger Penske fixed the team issues at Richmond, here are Brad's stats... 2 Wins, 3 Top 5's, 6 Top 10's Yeah, they really don't belong in the chase right...because Dale Jr has shown a lot more... 0 Wins, 1 Top 5, 4 Top 10's ***Shakes Head*** " Almost everyone in the NFL was bitching about last years' NFC West debacle, not sure where you were during that but whatever. It doesn't make NASCAR's wild card any less of a joke. Yes, Dale Jr. deserves the Chase more than Brad because he's put it together over the course of the season. That is what the points system is about, not about rewarding an incosistent mess like Brad for having a good race or two. Not just Brad, but David Ragan and Paul Menard have no business in this mix either. There should be a bigger importance to winning, but they shouldn't put a driver in the Chase over a good race or two. Give a driver a serious amount more points for 1st than 2nd and you accomplish that. 122. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, I don't think it's backward logic at all for the champion to be the one to have the fewest problems, as long as he runs and finishes up front. After all, when Tony Stewart won the title in 2005, he became the only driver to win a title in the Chase format not to win a race in the last 10, but he finished up front more than any other driver, including finishing second four or five times. Other drivers were more spectacular, but they also had more problems. I'd rather see a driver win the title with consistent 4th-7th place finishes in the last 10 races, than a driver that wins the title that wins four times and fails to finish four times in the last 10 races, because he's then not finishing up front the most often. Consistency MUST count for something. That year, Stewart had only one bad finish, if you can call it that, and that was a 24th-place finish at Charlotte, which was caused by bad tires, not poor performance. Also, while more emphasis must be put on winning and finishing up front, as I was the one that uncovered that major flaw in the current points system a couple of weeks ago that Red mentioned in post #120, you can't put so much emphasis on winning that it encourages cheating. I believe anything that actually encourages cheating is a BIG negative for any sport, not just auto racing. 123. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only way to justify the chase is to have the Chasers reset, but with their point differential kept the same (E.g. Gordon still 52 back). Before the inception of playoffs in the 60s, the championship game was between the two best teams in either the whole league (NHL pre-1972), or each conference/division (NFL and MLB before the 60s). That ensured that the teams who were the best over the course of the whole season (162, 82, 16) got rewarded for regular winning. Now, with playoffs, a team just needs to go on a hot streak, and, in the case of baseball, win 11 out of 19. There is no automatic reward for having the best record. Consider this, has anyone seen Jimmie Johnson look like a NASCAR legend in the way how he drives on the track outside of his 70 chase races? Not really. He has had some amazing runs (Dover 2002, Charlotte 2004), but he has only driven like a champ for those 70 races. There is no incentive to be good anymore. This is why I stopped watching as a regular, and am only a casual fan. I got sick of watching Jeff Gordon for 3 (2004, 2007, and 2009) of the last 7 seasons show true championship driving over the course of 36 races, only to lose to people who drove like a champ over the course of 10 races (particularly 2004, where the champ entered the chase with only 12 top 10s (Less than half). In the years I typed (04, 07, 09), Gordon ended the year with the best average finish in the sport, but he got no reward. In 2007, he broke a record set by the great Cale Yarborough with 30 top 10s. He outdid Jimmie Johnson in every category except wins (top5s, top10s he destroyed Jimmie in, poles, laps led, AvFn, RAF, and LLF). This does not seem very rewarding. A guys puts together 16 good races, but no, because he had more wins, that is supposed to outweigh Jeffs 36? This shows that there is clearly something very wrong. Three times now, Jimmie has won a title despite not scoring as many points as the guy in second. To use NASCAR's crocked thinking, Rusty should have won the 88 title for winning 4 of the last 5, but he didn't due to inconsistency. Jeff won 10 times in 1996, but he lost due to inconsistency. Jimmie won 10 races in 2007, but he WON the title due to inconsistency over 36 races, despite having crappier numbers than Jeff did over the course of 31 races in 1996. Actually, 1996 Jeff outdid 2007 Jimmie Johnson in every single stat NASCAR measures except for RAF and LLF, which Jimmie had 5 more races to do that in and had 5 more of with having only 4 more LLFs out of a potential 5 more. The numbers don't lie. Except for the 10 wins (which even some of those were stretched), the 2007 Jimmie Johnson SUCKED. 124. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to add congrats to Keselowski. To me, you don't belong until you pass them and lick them, which he did today. As they say, "Good show old chap," even if he is young. 125. Cooper posted: 08.08.2011 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "121. Rusty posted: 08.08.11 - 12:10 pm" The Seahawks beat the defending Superbowl champions, and of course everyone mouths closed shut really quick. It was awesome seeing everyone eat there words. And I totally disagree, just because Dale Jr ran better 5 months ago doesn't mean that team has a better chance at winning the championships. In my opinion the point of a playoff system is to put your best options at winning the championship in the playoffs and NASCAR is doing that. A team that can get hot is more dangerous than a team that finishes 15th every week. I'm sorry but NASCAR got it right this time.... 126. Smokefan05 posted: 08.08.2011 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Get some glasses or contacts then... If you go look at it again, watch right when they come off the turn and your boy goes down on Kurt. Look from the view straight ahead that's in front of them. 99 percent of the people can see it, not for sure why 100 can't. What should have happened didn't and that should have been Kurt laying him out when Johnson and Johnson baby products came to his car after the race." NASCAR "Fans" are blinded by fandom. That is one of the problems i have with this "fan" base. "The wild card, just like the Chase, is Brian Frances' stupid way of creating some fake drama and excitement. I remember the good years of racing where we didn't need any of this fake drama crap that NASCAR tries to create, it was way more exciting than anything we see now. That 1992 championship weekend in Atlanta was a classic, we didn't need a Chase to have an exciting finish." Oh and how many "1992s" did we have with the old system? Hmmmm? Oh wait not very many and what about 2003? Oh yeah that was exciting........NOT!!!!!!!!!! Quit blaming Brian France for the Chase, the "fans" played a part with their endless bitching about how Matt Kenseth won the Cup with winning ONE RACE!!!!! Go ahead and hate me for that statement. The current points system rewards being up front and not winning BUT it hurt you blow up or have a day. That is what i like about it. "I'm sorry but NASCAR got it right this time...." I'm not gonna hate on this post because it is true. The Wild Card adds 2 unknowns to Chase. They could tank or get hot and steal the show (maybe the Championship) I see no problem with that. If you were to compare the 3 "gimmicky" systems used in NASCAR, College Football and the PGA Tour. Atleast for NASCAR and the PGA Tour, its settled on the field of play. The BCS is more broken and gimmicky then the Chase or the FedEx Cup for golf. The BCS uses polls and broken math formula to decide who plays in the National Championship game, Bull****. 127. Talk4Tar posted: 08.08.2011 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the #13 car doing a start-and-park. And again, why that team did a start-and-park when they are supposed to be fully sponsored is beyond me. " The 13 team only has sponsorship from Geico for like 18-20 races. 128. Red posted: 08.08.2011 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, I'm glad you brought up Stewart's 2005 chase. I totally agree that he was the best driver over those 10 races, despite not winning. He led by far the most laps and was a legit contender in more than half of those races. He most certainly deserved the 2005 championship. The problem I have with the current system is that avoiding mistakes is MORE important than running up front. And I'm not talking about an extreme driver with 5 wins/5 DNF's. Here's a hypothetical example of two winless drivers to illustrate my point: Driver A: Finishes 4th in all ten races, but doesn't lead a single lap Driver B: Finishes 2nd nine times, but blows a motor and finishes 43rd in the tenth race; leads the MOST laps in all ten races In this example, Driver B finished ahead of Driver A in 9/10 races, and led far more laps in every race, but still lost the title 400-399 to Driver A, just because of that one engine failure. I know this exact scenario will never happen, but the fact that's it's even possible is very disturbing. If NASCAR used the points system from Formula 1, IndyCar, V8 Supercar, Moto GP, or ANY other racing series in the world, we wouldn't have this idiotic "don't make a mistake" points racing mentality that we see in NASCAR. Amazing how everyone else on Earth can build an adequate points system, but the suits in Daytona still can't figure it out after all these years. 129. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, one thing you have to consider is the size of the starting field in other forms of racing compared to NASCAR. F1, for instance has a starting field only half of what NASCAR has, and the starting field for all IndyCar races, except the Indianapolis 500, is no more than two-thirds than the fields in NASCAR races, tops. Granted these days, you have the start-and-parks, which effectively dwindle the size of the field down some, but even then the sizes of the fields actively racing the distance is substantially bigger than the fields in the other forms of racing. And to accommodate the entire field, NASCAR had to make it so that every finishing position meant something. Even F1 scores many more places than they used to, and IndyCar also scores all positions. In fact, the current system NASCAR uses is based off the 1 point per position formula that IndyCar has used for years, except they encourage running up front by using a bigger point spread among the top finishers. But it looks like IndyCar may crown a champion this year with at least one race remaining, and F1 will crown a champion with about three or four races remaining. Both would certainly be deserving champions by any measure used. But with hardly anybody falling out of NASCAR races with legitimate mechanical problems any more, and allowing damaged race cars to continue racing, very few cars ever fall out of races that intend to run the distance. If you had more cars drop out of races, a bad finish wouldn't be penalized as heavily as it is. And I thought the #13 car had sponsorship from GEICO for the entire season this year. Yes, I know they had only partial sponsorship from GEICO last year, but I thought this year was a different story. 130. 12345Dude posted: 08.08.2011 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was going to post a lot. I'm going to start posting a lot for the rest of the season. All I have to say is I was cheering my brains out for Brad Keselowski to win. I'm so happy he beat the cry baby brothers. Thanks a lot Kurt Busch, you just awoke Jimmie Johnson. Also have you ever heard yourself on the radio? OMG stop crying you baby. Be happy you were born with the talents you have. Great post race interview. That's why BK is my favorite driver. Also one quick comment. Wow has the nationwide series hurt the sprint cup series. There are so many drivers in the Sprint Cup Series that have no buisness being there. The lack of young talent has really hurt this series. A mid pack truck driver finishes 32nd. In his first start. And the team was made from scratch, after the season started. Also shows how bad Front Row Motersports is. Why do they have 4 cars? Also Montoya has been a complete bust as a driver. I have heard everyone backstage is amazed, at his raw talent. Yet he can't keep his head on straight. 5 Years only 2 road course wins. 0 Non road course wins 1 Chase berth 4/5 seasons of finishing 17th in the standings or worse. This might be a bold statement, but I wouldn't be surprised if Jacques Villenueve does better than JPM in nascar. And I'm happy, because he's (Montoya) a jerk. 131. IglooRacer posted: 08.08.2011 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Totally off topic question but I'm heading out to Watkins glen in a few days, I checked the forecast and it looks awful. My question is does NASCAR still use rain tires on the new model of the nationwide car? Hopefully someone can help me out 132. Rusty posted: 08.08.2011 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Seahawks beat the defending Superbowl champions, and of course everyone mouths closed shut really quick. It was awesome seeing everyone eat there words. And I totally disagree, just because Dale Jr ran better 5 months ago doesn't mean that team has a better chance at winning the championships. In my opinion the point of a playoff system is to put your best options at winning the championship in the playoffs and NASCAR is doing that. A team that can get hot is more dangerous than a team that finishes 15th every week. I'm sorry but NASCAR got it right this time.... " Seattle still didn't belong in the playoffs despite beating the Saints, but that is so incredibly rare in the NFL it is not even worth discussing a playoff change. I never said Dale Jr. had a better chance at winning the championship than Brad. Neither has a chance in hell, but Dale Jr.'s overall body of work is more deserving than Brad's. That is what being a champion in this sport is about. But unfortunatly NASCAR has ruined that with their gimmick Chase garbage to try and create excitement. "Oh and how many "1992s" did we have with the old system? Hmmmm? Oh wait not very many and what about 2003? Oh yeah that was exciting........NOT!!!!!!!!!! Quit blaming Brian France for the Chase, the "fans" played a part with their endless bitching about how Matt Kenseth won the Cup with winning ONE RACE!!!!!" Domination happens, it is a part of all sports. Sometimes the Super Bowl is a blowout, sometimes the World Series or NBA Finals is a boring one sided series. You don't see those sports coming up with stupid gimmicks to level the playing field. Should the NFL give a team a touchdown or two if they are losing by a lot at halftime in the Super Bowl to make it more exciting? I also don't think the Chase has really added that much more drama. Other than 2004, we haven't had an extremly drama filled finale with the Chase. Infact, one year the championship would've been determined by a closer margin WITHOUT the Chase. "If you were to compare the 3 "gimmicky" systems used in NASCAR, College Football and the PGA Tour. Atleast for NASCAR and the PGA Tour, its settled on the field of play. The BCS is more broken and gimmicky then the Chase or the FedEx Cup for golf. The BCS uses polls and broken math formula to decide who plays in the National Championship game, Bull****." You won't get any arguments from me on this. The BCS is the biggest pile of crap in sports. It will never change either because they make too much money of it. Which is why college football as a whole is a damn shame, so many people making fist loads of money while the players don't see a dime (unless they play for USC or Ohio State lol). 133. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.08.2011 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So DSFF, I hope you don't mind me joining you in the Brad K. fan club, haha. Because I became one today. This was an incredible performance." Hell yeah. We've got a chair waiting for you. "Who would have thought at the beginning of the year that Brad K would have more wins on the year than Johnson, Edwards, Stewart, and Hamlin after 21 races?" As Kyle Petty would say: "That is incredible". "His season is similar to Jamie's 2010 since he has two wins but lacks the overall consistency to be higher in the points." That is true. The biggest difference to me is that Jamie would win or finish 2nd one week, then struggle to run 25th the next week (Indy and Pocono last year is a great example). Up through Richmond, Brad was simply bad. Then Kurt went apeshit, much needed changes happened, and they have had speed almost every week since, they have just not been able to close races. "After Richmond, I gloomily predicted that he would repeat his 2010 season (which was terrible to say the least)" Same here. The turnaround has been incredible. I always had a hunch that Penske was engineering themselves right out of the picture for a number of years, but their performance ever since has proved that. "Brad Keselowski: I just want to dedicate this win to all the brave heroes who died in Afghanistan. Jamie Little: Well, I'm sure a lot of them were your fans. Speaking of fans, how about a shameless plug for a Sprint promotion where we give away money? That's seems like something we should focus on instead. AMERICA!!!" Lol. That is funny, true, and sad. "I was just saying that the incident had, in my opinion, woken a sleeping giant. Only time will tell from here, but Johnson was about as upset as I've ever seen him." That problem is that JJ, like Gordon, has the mental stability to channel that anger into driving even better than he hever has before. With no real championship favorite stepping up, this could be a JJ cha$e runoff. "I'm sure BK2 is using the famous Earnhardt phrase "It hurt so good!"" I remember that T-Shirt. Damn I wish I would have bought one! "Experimenting with setups? Isn't that what Jimmie Johnson's team does all the time in the second third once they're solidly in the chase?" Yep. Last year, at Martinsville, ine RACE SIX, they already were running a full blown R&D setup. ""My name is Jimmie Johnson and my crap tastes delicious."" Lol. We need to get our shots at JJ in now while we can, cause I'm afraid he is about to light it up. "Almost everyone in the NFL was bitching about last years' NFC West debacle" Yeah, we were bitching. Then they played the defending Super Bowl champs and this happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueR1TFFEt3g "Oh and how many "1992s" did we have with the old system?" From 1979 through 1997, the champion was decided before the final race just twice, those being Earnhardt's back to back blowouts in '86 and '87. Unfortunately from 1998 through the last year of Winston Cup in 2003, the champ clinched before the last race all but once, that being the 2002 championship fight which ranked alongside 1991 as "Does Anybody Actually Want To Win This Damn Thing?!?!?" fights. 134. Red posted: 08.08.2011 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In fact, the current system NASCAR uses is based off the 1 point per position formula that IndyCar has used for years, except they encourage running up front by using a bigger point spread among the top finishers." You just made my point for me. The reason, in my opinion, that the Indy and F1 systems are superior to NASCAR's is precisely because they have much bigger point spreads for the top finishers. I have no problem awarding points to every driver in the race, as long as the top spots are worth proportionally more than the bottom positions. I think we'd all agree it's much tougher to make a pass for 3rd place than it is to make a pass for 27th place, and the points system needs to be designed accordingly. To me, making a pass in the top five is roughly equal to making five passes in the back of the field. My point is that NASCAR is the only major series that doesn't understand this concept, and that has nothing to do with the size of the fields or how many cars drop out with mechanical problems. 135. 00andJoe posted: 08.08.2011 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watkins Glen entry list is out. 46 cars entered: -Mike Bliss is listed in the #32, but it was previously announced Andrew Ranger will run the car. -Geoff Bodine in the #35 -Scott Speed in the #37 -Erik Darnell in the #46, I'd expect a ringer to take over? -T.J. Bell in the #50 -Boris Said in the #51 -P.J. Jones in the #77 136. 00andJoe posted: 08.08.2011 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #118/130: Front Row Motorsports isn't running four cars. Larry Gunselman's Max Q Motorsports has been running the #37 since Phoenix, leasing cars and the number (=their guaranteed spot through Bristol) from FRM. As for Montoya vs Villeneuve, Jacques is, unfortunatly, 'damaged goods' after his initial shot at Cup went up in smoke when Bill Davis Racing went down in flames. Wrongly, since he never even got to try with them, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. As for the points debate, all I'll say is this: "To finish first, you must first finish." 137. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.08.2011 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is my take on the wildcard component of this year's cha$e. I'm gonna say it up front, I am a Brad K fan as you could see by my previous posts. So take my point of view on this for what it is worth. First off, Brad still isn't safe in the cha$e. Not by a longshot. He needs to be 20th or better in points. He has been wildly inconsistent, so this is not set in stone by any means. Here is something that needs to be talked about: The cha$e cutoff is at Richmond. This year, the flat tracks one mile or less have been Brad's weak point. They haven't found a setup he is comfortable with yet, and he keeps driving too hard to compensate which leads to blown right front tires. Here are his runs at flat tracks one mile or less this year: Phoenix- he finished 15th with no problems all race and about half the field was collected in two major crashes. He probably should have finished 25th. Martinsville- they had about a 15th place car until the right front tire blew, causing them to fall to 19th. Richmond- the night it all bottomed out. A bad setup and overaggressive driving led to a bad run made worse by an unprovoked spin and another crash. They finished 36th, Kurt struggled and lost his shit, they have both been on fire ever since. Loudon- Bad setup, blown right front, mid 30s finish. He needs to really solidify his spot before Richmond. His cha$e spot is not guaranteed by any means. Now for the wild card itself. First of all, I think the cha$e, under any incarnation, has no credibility. All other sports have playoffs because they need them. In NASCAR, every team drives at the same place under the same conditions every week. There is no "strength of schedule" discrepency. But since they insist on having a "playoff" system, I think the wild card adds to it. Yes it definitely has its drawbacks, but overall, taking the cha$e in context in and of itself, I think it helps. One argument against it is "does an 18th to 20th place in points team like Brad's deserve a shot at the championship?". My answer is no. BUT.... I don't think the 10th to 12th place drivers deserve a shot either unless it is a really wacky year and they are really close to 1st. So if we have to have 12 drivers, I would rather see the 20th place driver with 2 wins get in as opposed to the 11th place guy with no wins. Neither deserves it, so give it to the guy with the wins in my opinion. Extending the playoffs analogy to other sports, it is like a team having a bad start to the year, catching fire at the end, grabbing the last playoff spot, then riding that momentum through the games. Notable examples: Last year's Green Bay Packers, the Steelers on Ben's first Super Bowl run, the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals, etc. But don't worry Brad haters. If they get in the cha$e, they won't contend for the title. Remember what I said about flat tracks one mile or less? The cha$e has Loudon, Martinsville, and Phoenix. 138. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, while I don't think Montoya is that good a stock car driver, the blame hardly falls squarely on him. Ever since Sterling Marlin's neck injury cost him a shot at the 2002 Cup championship, which he led until that point, Ganassi has done next to nothing, except for Jamie McMurray's big wins last year. Even when Montoya made the Chase, he went winless for the season. In fact, Ganassi has lost key personnel, most notably Donnie Wingo, who went to Roush to be crew chief for McMurray there, and then pulled off the miracle of all miracles in recent NASCAR history, winning the Daytona 500 with rookie Trevor Bayne and the Wood Brothers. But Ganassi has all of five wins since the beginning of 2003, and four of them came last year. So before we start blaming Montoya for his troubles, more than his share of which have been self-inflicted, remember that, except for last year, that organization has done next-to-nothing for pretty much a decade, no matter who the driver has been. And Red, I do think the size of the fields and the lack of dropouts does have something to do with the consistency factor, because there aren't as many wild point swings as you used to have for that very reason. And I also disagree that a pass in the top 5 is like five passes back in the field. If you compared that to three passes in the field, I'll agree with that, but not five. For instance, Darrell Waltrip made up huge point deficits in each of his championship years, which had as much to do with the man he was chasing dropping out of races, as it had to do with his own brilliance. He made up a 206-point deficit on Bill Elliott for his last championship (1985), and a deficit of more than 300 points on Bobby Allison for his first (1981). you do that, not only by running up front, but also by the man you are chasing dropping out of races, and cars just don't drop out of races any more in NASCAR, unless they're start-and-parks. 139. 00andJoe posted: 08.08.2011 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner standings by highest finishing car: 1. Roush, 859 2. Gibbs, 852 3. Hendrick, 848 4. Childress, 813 5. Penske, 761 6. Stewart-Hass, 732 7. Petty, 669 8. Red Bull, 646 9. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 640 10. Michael Waltrip, 611 11. Furniture Row, 474 12. JTG-Daughtery, 446 13. Front Row, 402 14. Phoenix, 374 15. Baldwin, 304 16. Stoddard, 296 17. Germain, 291 18. TRG, 264 19. Robby Gordon, 248 20. Wood Brothers, 218 21. Gunselman, 141 22. Whitney, 99 23. HP, 82 24. NEMCO, 79 25. Inception, 40 26. Rusty Wallace, 24 27. Leavine, 14 28. Falk, 13 29. K-Automotive, 9 140. Anonymous posted: 08.08.2011 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Correct on the #37 being officially owned by Gunselman's Max Q operation, though it seems to be just a subterfuge to exchange points. Andy Pilgrim was in the #46 for the last road race at Sonoma, not sure if he is available for the Glen. That was one of only two times that team ran the full race this year, the other being with Bill Elliot at 'Dega. Re Jason White: I must correct myself, he finished 33rd not 32nd. The only car behind him still running at the finish was Ragan's #6, which was behind the wall for repairs for a long stretch. So, basic he qualified and stayed out of the way, which is something, at least. Re post 4: Schrader was doing TV for the NNW race. And about David Ragan... just when it looked like he might have gotten off the hot seat with his first Cup win, this week was the perfect storm of circumstances to put him back on. Ragan has a bad race himself, BK's win makes a Ragan wild card much more difficult, Edwards re-signs with Roush so there is one less seat available, and Stenhouse gets another NNW in Iowa in an a jaw-dropping finish. 141. Talon64 posted: 08.08.2011 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""No one was adversely affected by it." Actually, I can name a few: -Kyle Busch, who lost the lead, and subsequently the race because of it -Paul Menard, who lost his wildcard spot because Keselowski won -David Ragan, who even after his problems today could have still been in the hunt for a wildcard had Keselowski not won. Now he's all but eliminated -Every other driver in the Chase, because now Keselowski would start only 10 points out of the lead, and either tied or ahead of them despite their superior performance in the season thus far because of NASCAR's dumb Chase system -Every other driver between 11th and 20th, and even those just outside the top 20 that haven't won, because now their path to the wildcard is even more difficult So yeah, other than adversely affecting half of the drivers in the field by allowing Keselowski to win, that move by Johnson didn't affect anyone at all. It only could have possibly drastically altered NASCAR history, that's it. No biggie. He should be allowed to do whatever he wants because he's Jimmie Johnson, everyone else should just get out of the way." Like Jimmie should give a shit about what his move to try and win the race did to everyone else. His job is to try and win races, something he's proven he's very good at, so kudos to him for attempting that 3 wide move. If it'd worked and he moved into 2nd then who knows, maybe he would've had a better shot at Keselowski. anyways, this is my favorite win of the year. For Keselowski to come back from his test crash to win with a broken ankle and a sore back is definitely impressive, although I don't know if it's in the same class as Earnhardt at the Glen in 1996 or Ricky Rudd racing with his eyes taped open at Daytona in 1984 and winning the next week at Richmond. It'd definitely there with Denny Hamlin and his ACL injury though. Before the start of the year, I predicted that Keselowski would win 2 races and finish 15th in the points. I never thought that would happen after the first 10 races, but now he's right on track to match or even exceed that. It's be nice to see him make the Chase, especially if he can crack the top 15 in points before then, but I'd value another win even more. I'd bet that Keselowski's the first driver ever to have 3 wins in his first 4 career top 5's. Seriously, he has 4 career top 5's but 3 of them are wins so he's really making them count! btw, Ragan, Menard and Keselowski's wins have shown how much of a crapshoot about 14th down to 20th is right now; they all made big jumps in the points with their wins and right now Keselowski's only 9 points out of 15th! Unfortunately he's only 19 ahead of 21st who happens to be Montoya, and Watkins Glen is next on the schedule so hopefully JPM pulls a JPM and screws up. 142. 00andJoe posted: 08.08.2011 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Entry list updates: Andrew Ranger confirmed in the #32 Terry Labonte in the #38 Andy Pilgrim in the #46 143. Talon64 posted: 08.08.2011 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski picks up his 3rd career Cup Series win and 2nd of the season. BraKes's 3 wins in his first 4 career top 5's is not only a new modern era record, beating Jimmie Johnson's 3 wins in 6 top 5's which all came in 2002, but ties the all time record (Marshall Teague 1951, Curtis Turner 1949-50, Parnelli Jones 1956-1968). It's the 3rd straight season that the #2 Miller Lite Dodge has won 2 races, with Kurt Busch 2009-10 and BraKes this season. A Penske driver hasn't won more than 2 times in a season since Ryan Newman had 8 in 2003, and the #2 team hasn't had more than 2 since Rusty Wallace won 4 times in 2000. It's Penske Racing's 66th career Cup win; they need just 1 more top 5 to reach 300 (299 in 1291 starts). Keselowski's 16 laps led to end the race helped Penske to eclipse 24,000 career laps led in Cup. Kyle Busch picks up his series-high 5th top 2, 9th podium and 11th top 5 finish of the season. It's his 3rd top 5 and 4th top 10 in the last 5 races, although the other finish is the 36th at Loudon. After only 1 top 5 and 2 top 10's with a 21.4 avg fin in his first 10 Pocono starts, Kyle has 3 podiums in his last 4 starts there. Kyle Busch also ties Dale Earnhardt Jr., Carl Edwards and Fred Lorenzen for 45th all time with his 16th career runner-up finish, and tied Speedy Thompson for 46th all time with his 77th top 5. He's also just 4 laps led back of Dale Earnhardt Jr. for 26th all time. Kurt Busch gets his first top 5 in the 5 races since his Infineon win. Kurt and Jeff Gordon end up tied for most points scored in the 2 Pocono races with 85, and Kurt joins Kyle and Jimmie Johnson as the only 3 to finish in the top 5 in both races. It's his 9th top 5, his 2nd most at any track, in 22 Pocono starts. Kurt is back into a tie with Kevin Harvick in career top 10's, 36th with 165; both came into Cup full time in 2001, Kurt having 385 career starts and Kevin 379. After only 5 top 5's in the first 17 races of the season (low by JJ standards), Jimmie Johnson has 3 in the last 4 races. He has 8 top 10's in his last 9 starts at Pocono with his worst finish being 13th (5 top 5's, 6.3 avg fin). It's his 8th top 5 in 20 Pocono starts overall. Jimmie ties Sterling Marlin for 24th all time with his 216th career top 10. Although Jimmie's got 3 top 5's in 4 races, he's only scored the 4th most points. The guy who's scored the most in that stretch is Ryan Newman, who picked up his 3rd top 5 in 4 races. His 7 top 5's (including five 5th place finishes) this season is his most since 2007. It's his first top 5 at Pocono in 5 races but he hasn't finished worse than 18th in the last 13 (4 top 5's, 6 top 10's, 10.3 avg fin). Jeff Gordon now has at least 10 top 10's in every full season he's competed in Cup (1993-2011, 19 years, 20.4 per season). It's his 7th top 10 in the last 9 races, scoring the most points of anyone (1 win, 4 top 5's, 6.6 avg fin) to go from 16th to 7th in the standings. It's Jeff's 27th top 10 in 38 Pocono Cup starts; he's never gone more than 3 races in a row without a top 10 there (2002-03). Carl Edwards made his 250th career Cup start, picking up his series-leading 14th top 10 of the season but just his 2nd in the last 5 races. It's also just his 2nd top 10 in his last 5 Pocono starts. After going 6 straight races without a top 10 and 9 straight without finishing better than 10th, Greg Biffle has back-to-back top 10's for just the 2nd time this season with 7th and 8th place finishes. It's just his 4th top 10 in 18 Pocono starts but 2nd straight in this race (won in 2010). Biffle moves ahead of Tiny Lund into 56th all time in top 10's with 120. Dale Earnhardt Jr. gets his first top 10 in the last 7 races, and is one of 6 drivers to finish in the top 10 in both Pocono races this season after going 5 straight there without one. Paul Menard follows up his Brickyard 400 win with his career-high 7th top 10 of the season, giving him back-to-back top 10's for the first time in 2011 and the 2nd time in his career. It's his first top 10 in 10 Pocono starts (22.9 avg fin). Denny Hamlin led the most laps at Pocono this season, 141 of 400 laps, but only has finishes of 19th and 15th in the two races to show for it. But he did become the 35th driver to reach 5000 career laps led in Cup. Joey Logano won his 3rd career Cup pole and 2nd of the season. 144. cjs3872 posted: 08.08.2011 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon64, when I mentioned that no one was adversely affected by Johnson's move to try to get the lead on the final restart, I was referring to the fact that no one was adversely affected during that particular moment of the race, meaning that no one was knocked out, or had their cars damaged in any way. 145. Anonymous posted: 08.08.2011 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The favoritism toward Keselowski on this site is becoming disgusting. Apparently all you have to do to win over the NASCAR fanbase is pander to the military at every opportunity and they will eat out of your hand forever after. 146. Josh C posted: 08.08.2011 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnsons attitude is becoming like Kyle Busch's used to be. I honestly think Kyle is growing up and Jimmie is acting like the sports biggest baby now. 147. Ryan posted: 08.08.2011 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Alan Kulwicki got it only because he led at the end of the final race. Had there been another race left, he would have probably found a way to blow it, as well." That's really an unfortunate statement because Underbird was more consistent than anyone down the stretch and he made up 278 points over the last six races. He led the most laps in the last race. He knew what he had to do in order to win the championship, Junior Johnson on the other hand was at a mismatch with Alan's brains.... That's what made it sweet for Alan that Johnson was going to hire him, and AK told him he was going to do it his way, and Junior laughed at him... And then AK outdueled his driver. 148. Ryan posted: 08.08.2011 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The second place finisher made more money than the winner, I know contingency awards play a factor, but that's just wrong... 149. Cooper posted: 08.08.2011 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "145. Anonymous posted: 08.08.11 - 8:20 pm" What are you even talking about? Your comment is irrelevant. People don't cheer for Brad because he respects the military (Everyone respects them), we cheer for him because he's a hard racer with a good head on his shoulder. He respects the sport and shows some decency and class in an age where most others don't. So will you please shut the door on your way out. Thanks. 150. Cooper posted: 08.08.2011 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper's interesting fact of the race: --Brad's 19 laps led is the lowest for a Pocono winner since 2001 in which Bobby Labonte led only 4 laps in his win. You don't have to look this up because I already did. 151. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.08.2011 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Seattle still didn't belong in the playoffs despite beating the Saints, but that is so incredibly rare in the NFL it is not even worth discussing a playoff change." But if Seattle wasn't in the playoffs, this wouldn't have happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueR1TFFEt3g "Apparently all you have to do to win over the NASCAR fanbase is pander to the military at every opportunity and they will eat out of your hand forever after." He has done a LOT more than that to get us to like him. His stance towards the military is just part of his personality as a whole that has endeared a lot of us towards him. Besides, Kurt Busch also used to try the American flag victory lap and he never became popular. Newman drove with the American flag after his Loudon win and he isn't any more popular now. "Except for the 10 wins (which even some of those were stretched), the 2007 Jimmie Johnson SUCKED." This quote cracked me up. Yeah, except for the fact that he won TEN FREAKING RACES, his season wasn't all that strong. Do you realize how rare that is? Since 1979, the only people to win 10 or more races in one season are Darrell ('81 and '82), Bill ('85), Dale ('87), Rusty ('93), Gordon ('96, '97, AND '98), and Jimmie ('07). Since the schedule was shortened beginning in 1972, the only others to do so are Petty, Allison, Pearson (in just 18 races!!!), and Cale. All legends. "Consider this, has anyone seen Jimmie Johnson look like a NASCAR legend in the way how he drives on the track outside of his 70 chase races? Not really. He has had some amazing runs (Dover 2002, Charlotte 2004), but he has only driven like a champ for those 70 races." You can't be serious. Yeah, he has 19 cha$e wins, but he also has THIRTY FIVE other wins. Hell, let's just take his cha$e performances out of it. You know who else has won 35 races since 2002? Nobody. And here is the thing about the cha$e: Yeah, Gordon got screwed in '07. But people forget that JJ was by far the best in 2004 but got hosed by the cha$e. By mid summer, they had 4 wins and a 230+ points lead. Old system? They cruise to the title. But they realized it didn't matter, so they experimented with motors and blew 3 in a row. Everyone wants to give that one to Jeff because he had the most points under the old system, but the 48 team threw away a lot of races trying to be strong for the cha$e. 152. Kinetic posted: 08.08.2011 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The favoritism toward Keselowski on this site is becoming disgusting. Apparently all you have to do to win over the NASCAR fanbase is pander to the military at every opportunity and they will eat out of your hand forever after." Have to agree. Kyle Busch made a comment about the Japanese earthquake/tsunami shortly after it occurred and no one even cared. Nationalism at its finest. 153. Smokefan05 posted: 08.08.2011 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Johnsons attitude is becoming like Kyle Busch's used to be. I honestly think Kyle is growing up and Jimmie is acting like the sports biggest baby now." Too me, i've always sensed alittle entitlment from Jimmie Johnson (get your firearms ready JJ fans). Jeff Gordon picked him out over dozens of other "worthy" drivers out there and Rick agreed with Jeffs choice and signed him and well the rest is history (as they say). Jeff could have picked anybody else but he picked Jimmie. The only non-regular Top 10 ride he had in NASCAR was his 2000-2001 N'wide rides. he has had the best of the best sense day 1 he showed up in the Cup series. 154. Cooper posted: 08.08.2011 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "151. Smokefan05 posted: 08.08.11 - 11:15 pm" I'm afraid you just opened up a whole new can of worms, and it's about time someone mentioned what everyone has been thinking. Jimmie got a Top 10 ride the minute he walked into the Winston Cup garage. For many years that was unheard of, and quite frankly he is one of the luckiest people on earth to get that ride. But you know what the difference is between Jimmie and all the other lucky hacks that have been given Grade A treatment from day 1... Jimmie has backed it up. Not by winning minor league races, not by running his mouth, not by whining and complaining but by winning Cup Championships. And at the end of the day that's what people remember. 155. cjs3872 posted: 08.09.2011 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan, the way that championship was going, whoever was leading the points would find some way to screw it up. That's why I believe that Kulwici, like Bill Elliott and Davey Allison, would have found some way to screw it up if there had been any more races that season. He came from 278 points down, not because of his own brilliance, though he was obviously the best among the title contenders down the stretch that year, but rather because of the choke jobs that Elliott's and Allison's teams did down the stretch. Kulwicki just happened to be there to pick up the pieces, that's all. 156. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.09.2011 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The biggest thing about Jimmie Johnson is probably that he's had little to no adversity during his Cup career. He's always driven for the same owner, had the same crew chief as well as equipment. But even so, he's taken full advantage and then some of the opportunity he was given. Even though one of my favorites is in position to possibly be in the cha$e due to the wild card, I think it's a stupid rule. If you're good enough to contend for the championship, you'll be in the top 10 in points by Race 26 anyway so I don't get the reason for it. 157. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.09.2011 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't like the wildcard rule - or the Chase in general - but I would still love to see my driver make the Chase whatever way he can. Rules are rules, like 'em or not and you've got to do the best you can with what you've got. But as for this comment: "If you're good enough to contend for the championship, you'll be in the top 10 in points by Race 26 anyway " What about Tony Stewart in 2006? 158. Talk4Tar posted: 08.09.2011 - 1:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's really an unfortunate statement because Underbird was more consistent than anyone down the stretch and he made up 278 points over the last six races. He led the most laps in the last race. He knew what he had to do in order to win the championship, Junior Johnson on the other hand was at a mismatch with Alan's brains.... That's what made it sweet for Alan that Johnson was going to hire him, and AK told him he was going to do it his way, and Junior laughed at him... And then AK outdueled his driver." So, what you're saying is, the driver that did the best in the very last portion of the season was most deserving of the Championship... Almost sounds like an argument that is PRO Chase ;) "The favoritism toward Keselowski on this site is becoming disgusting. Apparently all you have to do to win over the NASCAR fanbase is pander to the military at every opportunity and they will eat out of your hand forever after." Been a fan since 2000. Has nothing to do with his RESPECT for the military. Has everything to do with a hard charging driver, who only wants to win. 159. Ryan posted: 08.09.2011 - 1:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ryan, the way that championship was going, whoever was leading the points would find some way to screw it up." We can't assume that would have happened to him though. You can try and take it away from him, but I'm not. He earned that title and he had some bad luck along the way that year as well. "Kulwicki just happened to be there to pick up the pieces, that's all." If that's the case then he adjusted to the pressure down the stretch, and they didn't. 160. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.09.2011 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What about Tony Stewart in 2006?" He too would have made it if he hadn't hurt his finishing position in at least two races (Vegas, Pocono) by being stupid and trying to wreck somebody for no reason. At Pocono he managed to come back and finish 7th but probably could have finished better without the penalty he got from wrecking Bowyer (which led to Edwards, who got caught up in that, paying him back on pit road later). 161. Ryan posted: 08.09.2011 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So, what you're saying is, the driver that did the best in the very last portion of the season was most deserving of the Championship... Almost sounds like an argument that is PRO Chase ;)" I'm saying he handled the pressure better than they did, and there was never talk of something like a Chase format. 1992 was a very unique year in which six drivers (AK, Bill, Davey, Harry, Mark, and Kyle) had a mathematical chance of winning the title. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the only time that was even close to being matched was in the Chase in 2004 with five drivers including Mark Martin who had a outside shot in '92. Making up 278 points was unbeleivable and should never be overlooked regardless if it was Alan running good and/or others having trouble, although Earnhardt almost erased a 300+ point lead in '95 to Gordon with four races to go. Like I said Kulwicki had some bad luck in the season, his just wasn't in the last hand full of races. 162. 12345Dude posted: 08.09.2011 - 1:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Who cars about the credibility of the playoff system? Every god damn sport has their problems with the playoffs. For God sakes the Seahawks made the NFL playoffs with a 7-9 record. You don't see them whining. The NBA once had a team that was 10 games under .500 make the playoffs, and for god sakes the NHL offers points for losing.... It's just something that people like to complain about. Like taxes and weather. The whole point of the chase is to give the 12 teams that have the best chance to win a championship. And C'mon, Brad has just as good of a chance to win as Ryan freakin Newman or GASP Dale Jr. In the 12 races since Roger Penske fixed the team issues at Richmond, here are Brad's stats... 2 Wins, 3 Top 5's, 6 Top 10's Yeah, they really don't belong in the chase right...because Dale Jr has shown a lot more... 0 Wins, 1 Top 5, 4 Top 10's" This is the thing. You can't compare nascar, to other sports like football,basketball, hockey, soccer etc. It's like comparing apples and oranges. Yes nascar may be a sport, but a playoff system doesn't work unlike other sports. Bill France doesn't realize that the number 3 thing that is killing nascar right now, is the chase. He doesn't realize how many old "traditional" fans hate it. It's really hurting them. And eventually someone 8th-12th in points is going to get really hot in the final 10 races, and win the title. And then all hell is going to break lose. Also why does everyone in the last 2-3 years keep comparing nascar to other sports? You can't it doesn't work. And thanks for the reply cjs 163. Pk84 posted: 08.09.2011 - 2:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Been a fan since 2000. Has nothing to do with his RESPECT for the military. Has everything to do with a hard charging driver, who only wants to win." So I'm guessing you're also a pretty big Kyle Busch fan. I can't name a more hard charging driver who only wants to win. 164. 00andJoe posted: 08.09.2011 - 4:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watkins Glen entry list update: -Dave Blaney in the #35 -Ron Fellows in the #36 165. cjs3872 posted: 08.09.2011 - 8:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, you mentioned in post #162 that someone in the bottom third of the Chase field is eventually is going to get hot and win (or steal) the championship. sorry to break the news to you, but that actually happened in the first year of the Chase. If I remember right, Kurt Busch entered the inaugural Chase in 2004 in NINTH, or next-to-last position in the 10-driver Chase field, won the first race at Loudon, and eventually won the title. And in 2007, if something would have happened to Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon, Clint Bowyer, who was LAST among the 12 Chasers when the Chase began, would have been in position to win the title that year. So what you are eluding to possibly happeneing in the future, has already happened before. 166. Kinetic posted: 08.09.2011 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly #163. If you're going to like a driver because he's a hard charger who hates to lose then Kyle Busch is your guy. At least when Keselowski loses he still seems remotely content with a decent finish. When Kyle loses you can tell he's upset, ready to detonate at any second(although he's definitely improved that this season). 167. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.09.2011 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What about Tony Stewart in 2006?" Tony screwed himself that year. Not only did he cost himself a cha$e spot, I think he cost himself another championship, and perhaps most importantly, he blew the chance to derail the Johnson/Knaus Express before it got started. Remember, going into '06, the 48 team had just blown two excellent opportunites to win the championship. In '05 the pressure caused JJ and Chad to crumble. While Tony stayed cool and calm in the face of adversity (Dover and Charlotte), he simply brought the 48 to their knees. JJ and Chad were openly considering a split before the now infamous "milk and cookies" intervention from Rick. So imagine of Tony makes the cha$e in '06 and runs like he did in the last 10 races. Does the mere vision of Big Orange in their rear veiw mirrors cause JJ and Chad to crumble again? What if they lose a third consecutive close call? Is there any way they stay together? Instead Tony threw away 2 Top 5 finishes at Vegas and Loudon trying to be "The Sheriff" that would have made the difference. He missed the cha$e, the 48 recovered from a disasterous first 4 races, won it finally, gained confidence and an appreciation for one another, and haven't lost since. Damn it all. One thing though: Can we at least give JJ credit for taking off his helmet and HANS before approaching Kurt? I'm so sick of these drivers confronting each other with their helmet and HANS still on. Harvick and JPM at the Glen. Kyle Busch running to Steve Wallace's car with all his safety stuff still on after that Richmond NWide race, getting his helmet grabbed by Steve, jumping backwards like he'd been shot, waiting for a bunch of people to jump between himself and a still unbuckling Steve, THEN motioning for Steve to come and get him (the 2nd biggest p***y moment in NASCAR history). Then there was Kyle running to Vickers after that Michigan race for having the audacity to try and beat him with his stuff still on. And this year, Harvick waiting in his car with his helmet and HANS still on, then waiting, and waiting some more, until members of his team came running down, THEN getting out of his car, helmet and HANS still on (the biggest p***y moment in NASCAR history). 168. Ryan posted: 08.09.2011 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I believe this was the 10th win for Penske at Pocono and with 5 different drivers. 169. Talon64 posted: 08.09.2011 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I believe this was the 10th win for Penske at Pocono and with 5 different drivers." Actually it's 8 with 5 different guys. As cjs noted... "Counting the 19 500-mile IndyCar races held at Pocono from 1971-'89, this was the 16th win at Pocono for Roger Penske, most all-time. Penske cars won eight of the 19 Pocono 500 IndyCar races with Mark Donohue (1971, the first one), Tom Sneva (1977), Bobby Unser (1980), Rick Mears (three times), and Danny Sullivan (the final one in 1989). This win was also Penske's eighth NASCAR win, as Keselowski joins Rusty Wallace (four times), Jeremy Mayfield (twice), Ryan Newman (July 2003), and Kurt Busch (Aug. 2007) as Penske drivers to have won NASCAR races there." _____________________________________ "Talon64, when I mentioned that no one was adversely affected by Johnson's move to try to get the lead on the final restart, I was referring to the fact that no one was adversely affected during that particular moment of the race, meaning that no one was knocked out, or had their cars damaged in any way." My post was in response to the Anonymous (can't some people at least have some kind of username?) who replied to you. but yeah as far as the race itself went the move was completely harmless, no foul. Carl Edwards made a 3 wide move into the tunnel turn that I thought was more likely to cause something than Jimmie's move. 170. cjs3872 posted: 08.09.2011 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan, I count this as being the ninth NASCAR win for Penske at Pocono, but with the seven 500-mile IndyCar races he won, this, I believe is Penske's 16th win at Pocono. his NASCAR win at Pocono came with Rusty Wallace four times, Jeremy Mayfield twice, and Ryan Newman, Kurt Busch, and Brad Keselowski also have one each. Penske also won the Pocono 500 IndyCar race seven times. Driving for Penske, Rick Mears won three times, and Mark Donohue (the 1971 inaugural), Tom Sneva (1977), Bobby Unser (1980), and Danny Sullivan (the last Pocono 500 in 1989) also won the Pocono 500 IndyCar race for Penske on one occasion. With Keselowski's win on Sunday, Penske now has more top series wins at Pocono (16) than he has at Indianapolis (15). Interestingly, Penske has now won at Pocono with five different drivers, as you accurately mentioned Ryan, but he also won the Pocono 500 IndyCar race with five drivers, as well, meaning that he has won 500-mile races at Pocono, whether they were IndyCar or NASCAR races, with 10 different drivers over the years. 171. cjs3872 posted: 08.09.2011 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Talon64, it's nine NASCAR races with five different drivers, as I was incorrect with my first post on this matter. But counting the seven 500-mile IndyCar wins at Pocono, which also came with five different drivers, he's won 16 times at Pocono with 10 drivers. As I mentioned in the last post, he now has more win at Pocono than he has at Indy. That is not surprising, considering that those are the two tracks that Penske has historically pointed toward as being more important to win at that any other. He points at Indy, because it's Indy, and he's always pointed at Pocono, because it's the one major speedway in Pennsylvania, where I believe Penske is from. 172. murb posted: 08.09.2011 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "One thing though: Can we at least give JJ credit for taking off his helmet and HANS before approaching Kurt? I'm so sick of these drivers confronting each other with their helmet and HANS still on. Harvick and JPM at the Glen. Kyle Busch running to Steve Wallace's car with all his safety stuff still on after that Richmond NWide race, getting his helmet grabbed by Steve, jumping backwards like he'd been shot, waiting for a bunch of people to jump between himself and a still unbuckling Steve, THEN motioning for Steve to come and get him (the 2nd biggest p***y moment in NASCAR history). Then there was Kyle running to Vickers after that Michigan race for having the audacity to try and beat him with his stuff still on. And this year, Harvick waiting in his car with his helmet and HANS still on, then waiting, and waiting some more, until members of his team came running down, THEN getting out of his car, helmet and HANS still on (the biggest p***y moment in NASCAR history)." No kidding!!!!! It's sort of embarassing, because I've always been a big Harvick fan. It frustrates me to no end when he gets in fights and doesn't take his helmet off or anything. But he's been one of my number one guys for almost ten years now, so I have to stick behind him... Speaking of fights, I'll move on to Jimmie and Kurt. I thought Kurt handled it perfectly after the race. All Kurt had to say was that it was hard racing. Which it was, at least in my book... And also, has anyone else noticed that Jimmie sounds like he's about to cry after any type of altercation he has? Sunday reminded me of the 2005 Duels when he got wrecked by Kevin, and was nearly reduced to tears in the post-wreck interview. It's just something I've always noticed, haha 173. Rusty posted: 08.09.2011 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll admit to being a Kurt Busch fan, so I may have some bias in this but I'll go anyways. First of all, I didn't watch a lap of this race. Went to a friend's birthday party instead. If there is any race I wouldn't mind missing, it is Pocono. I luckily have missed both Pocono races as I was driving to Tennessee during the last one. I did see a replay of what happened, and it seemed like two guys racing hard at the end. I don't get why Jimmie is so upset. NASCAR drivers are too far into this whole racing clean and respect garbage. It is one thing 30 laps into the race to be racing someone hard when they are just trying to figure their car out, but at the end of the race everything but flat out wrecking someone should be fair game. Besides, what if Brad had gone into turn three and blown a tire taking out Kyle in the process? Then Kurt and Jimmie would've been battling for the win, it may sound crazy but look at what happened the night before in Iowa, crazy things happen in NASCAR. Jimmie has flat out taken Kurt several times throughout the years, including this race one year ago and he has the nerve to whine to Kurt about racing hard for 3rd on the last lap. Okay, there is my rant. You can call me biased as a Kurt fan or whatever but I just don't see anything wrong with what he did. Except for his language in the post race interview, he should've kept it clean. 174. Scott B posted: 08.09.2011 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll give Kurt credit for this... His comments in the post-race interview sounded a lot like his comments in 2003 at Darlington where he came in second to Ricky Craven after trading paint on the final laps. He wasn't upset then, even after losing by a fraction of a second, he just called it good hard racing. So, while I wouldn't say he's the model of good sportsmanship, at least he is consistant about a little rubbing on the way to the checkers being OK. 175. 12345Dude posted: 08.09.2011 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, you mentioned in post #162 that someone in the bottom third of the Chase field is eventually is going to get hot and win (or steal) the championship. sorry to break the news to you, but that actually happened in the first year of the Chase. If I remember right, Kurt Busch entered the inaugural Chase in 2004 in NINTH, or next-to-last position in the 10-driver Chase field, won the first race at Loudon, and eventually won the title. And in 2007, if something would have happened to Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon, Clint Bowyer, who was LAST among the 12 Chasers when the Chase began, would have been in position to win the title that year. So what you are eluding to possibly happeneing in the future, has already happened before." Great point about Kurt Busch. I thought he was 5th in the standings. I checked he was 7th in the standings with 2 wins. I disagree about Clint Boyer. The closest he was to the title in the last 5 races was 67 points. He ended up 346 points out of first. There was no way he was going to win the title. I think what you're trying to say is, if he would of taken the lead at Martinsville and the 48 and 24 had a DNF (That was when he was 67 down). Then maybe he could of carried the momentum for the rest of the chase. But I don't think that was going to happen. Also he ended up 346 points out of first at the end. 176. Smokefan05 posted: 08.09.2011 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm afraid you just opened up a whole new can of worms, and it's about time someone mentioned what everyone has been thinking. Jimmie got a Top 10 ride the minute he walked into the Winston Cup garage. For many years that was unheard of, and quite frankly he is one of the luckiest people on earth to get that ride. But you know what the difference is between Jimmie and all the other lucky hacks that have been given Grade A treatment from day 1... Jimmie has backed it up. Not by winning minor league races, not by running his mouth, not by whining and complaining but by winning Cup Championships. And at the end of the day that's what people remember." Some (including me) will remember him for being lucky enough to catch the of Jeff Gordon, gets a top 10 ride from day one, getting a cheater of a crew cheif and having an owner willing to change his pit crew to keep his title hopes alive. I will NEVER doubt his talent but i'll doubt how he got to where he is. I'm sorry i just have this mind set that if you do it the Greg Biffle way, then you have "earned" it. Jimmie has back it up (3 times, not 5 times) but he has made some enimies in the past (2004-2005) and has come across as a whiner. Jimmie isn't as squeaky clean as everyone thinks he is. And Cooper, it isn't a can of worms unless it has truth to it, what i said has truth to it. Post #173, as far as i see it, Kurt owes the #48 atleast 1 payback. 177. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.09.2011 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's summarize all 176 comments previous. Jimmie, Chad, and Kurt are a bunch of jackwagons. 178. Ryan posted: 08.09.2011 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Actually, Talon64, it's nine NASCAR races with five different drivers, as I was incorrect with my first post on this matter." That's right, I was speaking of terms in Nascar wins. But that's pretty cool he has 16 overall wins at Pocono and about the same at Indy with no Nascar wins at Indy, although close with Rusty three times. I thought it was 10, because I knew Kurt Busch won twice, but I realize now that he won once with Roush. 179. Talk4Tar (formerly Cfob) posted: 08.10.2011 - 1:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Bill France doesn't realize that the number 3 thing that is killing nascar right now, is the chase." That's probably because he's dead... "So I'm guessing you're also a pretty big Kyle Busch fan. I can't name a more hard charging driver who only wants to win." No. I don't hate Kyle, but I'm not a huge fan. Too much of a crybaby in years prior. He's earning it back though. 180. potatosalad48 posted: 08.10.2011 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pocono Raceway has announced that both 2012 Cup races will be shortened from 500 miles to 400 miles. I believe this will prove to be a good decision as many fans got bored of the Cup Series going 500 miles. 181. Ryan posted: 08.10.2011 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Pocono Raceway has announced that both 2012 Cup races will be shortened from 500 miles to 400 miles. I believe this will prove to be a good decision as many fans got bored of the Cup Series going 500 miles." http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;_ylt=AnnIjuQuZu4n_nh.kDLticA5nYcB?slug=jh-pocono-raceway_shortening_races_400_miles-081011 This will be a lot better on the transmissions for sure... 182. Ryan posted: 08.10.2011 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yeah, he has 19 cha$e wins, but he also has THIRTY FIVE other wins." Yeah 10 of those 35 came before there ever was a Chase. So really since the Chase began in 2004, he has 19 Chase wins and 25 regular season wins. It's easy to see that his better tracks are in the Chase and thus why he has had so much success (5 titles). 19 wins out of 70 Chase races since the Chase started, and 25 regular season wins in 156 races. You do the math... Scary part is, he could have 7 straight if he could have passed Biffle at the end in 2004 at Homestead and didn't wreck in 2005 at Homestead. On another note, I'd like to see one more 500 mile race at Pocono next year and then go to the 400 mile race in August. I believe Dover did that in 1997. 183. Ryan posted: 08.10.2011 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie also has 37 wins at Chase tracks out if his 54, and he has three wins at Vegas and Indy that they don't even run in the Chase. Jimmie got some hate mail at Yahoo... http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/blog/from_the_marbles/post/Happy-Hour-The-enemy-of-my-enemy-is-8230-Kur;_ylt=AsfMSt_JfItzJU7EXOo3U6M5nYcB?urn=nascar-wp3025 184. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.10.2011 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's easy to see that his better tracks are in the Chase and thus why he has had so much success (5 titles)." That is because they gear their focus towards the cha$e tracks. In 2004 he swept the Darlington race, the second of which was in the cha$e. They took it out of the cha$e the following year and he hasn't won there since. Coincidence? I doubt it. 185. Red posted: 08.10.2011 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "On another note, I'd like to see one more 500 mile race at Pocono next year and then go to the 400 mile race in August. I believe Dover did that in 1997." I'd even take that a step further. At tracks with two races, I'd like to see NASCAR mandate different mileage for each race on an annual basis. That would make every race on the schedule unique. I also don't know why we have to be stuck on 100 mile increments. Why not run a 350 or 450 miles race just to mix things up? I loved it when Vegas run a 427 mile race in honor of Carol Shelby. But back to the original point, I'm glad Pocono is shortening their races. In today's NASCAR, with limited attrition and the charity rules to keep everybody on the lead lap, there's really no purpose in running 500 miles other than for tradition's sake. 186. cjs3872 posted: 08.10.2011 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan, you are correct, but not only did Dover run a 500-mile race in June of 1997 and then go to the 400-mile distance, which they currently run, starting with the fall race that year, but Rockingham did the same thing in 1995. Their first race that year was the track's final 500-mile race, then they switched to 400-mile races for the rest of that track's existence on the Cup calendar, which lasted through the second race of the 2004 season. The 400-mile race distance is, to me, perfect for those tracks, as the race pace for those tracks are too slow to run 500-mile races on. That's why it didn't make sense to keep running 500-mile races at Pocono, because the race pace is simply too slow. On the other hand, I'd like to see Auto Club Speedway, now that they're down to one race per year, go back to the 500-mile distance, and I wouldn't mind if one of the two races at Michigan was 500 miles, instead of 400, just to make them different races. Trivia: Did anyone know that there was once a NASCAR race at Michigan that was scheduled for 600 miles? It was held on August 17, 1969. Ironically that race, the second NASCAR race held there, only lasted 165 laps/330 miles, the shortest race there until 2001, and was won by David Pearson, who still holds the track record for most victories with nine. Ironically that same event in 1970 would be the first NASCAR race run with restrictor plates, 17 and a half years before the modern restrictor plates were first used for the 1988 Daytona 500. That race was won by Charlie Glotzbach, one of his four NASCAR Cup series victories. But I digress. I believe the only reason the NASCAR race at Indianapolis isn't 500 miles is to honor the history of the Indianapolis 500, although I don't the pace at Indy for stock cars is fast enough for a 500-mile race. Speaking of Indy tradition, I would, someday, like to see three-abreast starts at certain races, like the Daytona 500 (though that might screw up the qualifying race format), as well as the races at Talladega, California, Michigan, and Pocono. Other major events like the Coca-Cola 600 at Charlotte may deserve a three-abreast start, but the track at Charlotte is just too narrow for three cars at the start-finish line for the start of a race. Remember, IndyCars used to start three-abreast at both Michigan and Pocono, and IndyCars and even NASCAR started races three-abreast at the old Ontario Motor Speedway back in the 1970s, though that only lasted a couple of years where NASCAR was concerned. 187. 18fan posted: 08.10.2011 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think its funny that they announced today the shortening of the Pocono races since when Kyle Busch took the lead from Kurt, ESPN played Kurt's radio when he said that he "Won the Pocono 400". For how much he was complaining about his cars at the beginning of the season, Kurt is the only driver this year to be in the top 10 in points every single week. His low is 8th, after Darlington and Dover. He has completed all but 10 laps this year and is one of 5 drivers(Edwards, Montoya, Ambrose, Newman the other) to finish every race. 188. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.10.2011 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oddly enough, I miss those 500 mile marathons at Dover. 189. cjs3872 posted: 08.10.2011 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, with Brad Keselowski's recent injury at Road Atlanta and the win at Pocono being a triumph of courage as much as talent, it reminds us of how dangerous a sport auto racing can be. But to see how truly dangerous auto racing can be when everything goes wrong, ESPN Classic has that very example on it's current schedule, as it is currently scheduled to air, for the first time, the 1973 Indianapolis 500 on Friday morning at 2 AM EDT/11 PM PDT Thursday night. That race was, of course, the ultimate example of what could happen if everything that could go wrong, did go wrong, and add to that everything that went wrong did so in the most extreme way possible. 190. Pocono4ver posted: 08.10.2011 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am disappointed that the two Pocono races will be 400 miles. The should have increased the banking by 10 degrees instead. 191. Smokefan05 posted: 08.11.2011 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) While i was only hoping for 1 Pocono date to be 400 miles but whatever. Even tho some will think Pocono is still "boring" even since they are reducing the distance by 100 miles. 192. Talk4Tar (formerly Cfob) posted: 08.11.2011 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not 100% sure how I feel about cutting the race distance. It'll make the races MUCH more watchable to the general public, but I really enjoy seeing how much skill it takes to navigate the "Tricky Triangle" over a 500 mile grind. 193. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.11.2011 - 1:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think shortening the Pocono race is a good idea; I've said this before and I will say it once more: Pocono can be a boring race once the cars get all spread out during a long green flag run. Things will be a lot more interesting at Watkins Glen. This race marks Dale Jr's first top 10 finish since the June Pocono race. He will need top 10 finishes at all of the remaining tracks before the cha$e starts in order to solidify his spot. 194. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.11.2011 - 9:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm on the fence about the Pocono races being 400 miles now. On one hand there is something really cool about a 500 mile race, it just has a better ring to it, to see people compete in a full grind. But with the recent fall in attrition, and the rise of NASCAR's welfare policies that keep everyone on the lead lap (lucky dogs, wave arounds, and plenty of debris cautions to make sure those get taken full advantage of), the races may as well be 200 miles. Pocono is one of those tracks whose last 100 miles don't have the meaning they used to. In the past, you really looked forward to the last 100 miles because that is when everything went haywire. Engine failures, transmission failures, suspension failures, everything was put to the ultimate test to make those last 100 miles. You could count on at least 2 or 3 really promising runs being sent to hell in the end. But now? Not so much. Then endings play out the same whether it is a 500 mile race like this one, a 400 mile race like Kentucky, or a 300 mile race like Loudon. Everyone just sorta waits for the end. But still, a 500 mile race is really cool. One other factor: Pocono is out in the middle of nowhere. Most of the fans have to travel quite a bit to go there. I'm sure they would rather see as much racing as possible as opposed to a shortened race. 195. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.11.2011 - 9:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) About a 3-hour and 45 minute time limit on a 500 miler at Pocono. Fans would still get an advertised 500, but the drivers would not have to worry about it taking forever. 196. Anonymous posted: 08.11.2011 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i'm dissappointed actually with pocono switching to just two 400 mile races, i find annoying that nascar has no more marathons other then the southern 500 and the coke 600, i miss the days when every track over a mile was a 500 mile race, and tracks less then a mile were 500 laps. I loved 492 lap races at the rock, and why the road course races are only 220 miles puzzles me, not counting red flags the 2008, 2009, and 2010 watkins glen races were over in less then 2 and a half hours 197. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.11.2011 - 12:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem isn't race length; it is car reliability. Nowadays, drivers don't have to worry about mechanical failure. Even just 15 years ago, parts like head gaskets, tie rods, and oil pans broke weekly. To break these indestructible cars, they would really have to lengthen every race, which is out of the question because races are long enough as it is. Wouldn't it be neat, though, if NASCAR decided to make Phoenix a 500 or 600 lapper/miler instead of kilometer, or if Texas had a 750 mile Ultimate Endurance Challenge? 198. cjs3872 posted: 08.11.2011 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, if you want to watch a race with mechanical failures, ESPN Classic has one scheduled to air at 2 AM EDT tomorrow morning/11 PM PDT tonight, the 1973 Indianapolis 500. While it's remembered for it's fiery crashes and rain delays, the 1973 Indianapolis 500 should also be remembered for the enormous amount of attrition due to mechanical failures, as no fewer than 20 of the 32 cars that started the race, when it finally got started, fell out due to mechanical failures, of some sort. And that race only went two-thirds distance due to rain. Interstingly, only two cars crashed out of that race when it finally got started. 199. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.11.2011 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also preferred the 492 lap races at Rockingham. I don't think every race should be 500 miles, but I think the majority of the non-short track races should be with the exception of the cookie cutters. A lot depends on the track. I think it is a very good idea that the Fontana races were cut to 400 miles. Again, with the fall of mechanical issues, they would race for the first 100 miles, ride around in their position for the next 300 miles, then try to make their move in the last 100 miles. Tracks like that it makes no difference whether it is 400 or 500 miles. I would also be in favor of the Texas races being shortened to 400 miles, especially now that they are at night. With no track changes and a generic race track, the last 500 miles are just more time wasted. And I would be in favor of the Fall Charlotte race being shortened to 0 miles. But that is another story. But on the flip side, I would like to see Pocono stay at 500 miles (I've though about it, I am no longer on the fence) because it is a unique track and its conditions change a lot throughout the day (keyword: day), especially in those mountains where it can be sunny one minute, then totall overcast 10 laps later. In both Pocono races this year, Denny Hamlin set sail in the first 100 laps, looked untouchable, only to fall behind the track conditions in the last half. I'd also, as mentioned ealier, like to see the 500 mile marathons brought back to Dover. That is another track with no lights that changes a lot over the course of a day, especially as rubber gets laid down. Atlanta is great at 500 miles because of its tire chewing surface. But the Talladega races I'd actually like to see shortened to 400 miles. Too much time wasting waiting until the end, plus it would be cool if the Daytona 500 were the only 500 mile plate race. 200. 00andJoe posted: 08.11.2011 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other news, hell has frozen over and pigs are flying in this world, as Joe Gibbs Racing merges its engine program with TRD's. Why the infernal frost and porcine aviators? TRD's Lee White on July 15th: "No, they're not shutting down their engine shop and no we will not be building their engines," White said. "Of course, hell can freeze over and pigs can fly, but not in this world." His pants, no doubt, are now on fire. 201. Cooper posted: 08.11.2011 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "200. 00andJoe posted: 08.11.11 - 4:41 pm" Why do people in this sport lie so much? If a story comes out that is true, what is the sense in denying it? Your just going to look stupid when it becomes official. I believe that reduces the engine makers to now just 6: Roush-Yates Earnhardt Childress TRD Penske Hendrick Triad Wow 6 engine makers that support 43 cars. This is awful. NOTE TO NASCAR: THE REASON NO ONE CAN PASS EACH OTHER IS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DRIVING THE SAME CRAP!!! SAME ENGINES, SAME AERO, SAME SETUP. NASCAR IS BECOMING A SPEC SERIES. 202. Cooper posted: 08.11.2011 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "199. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.11.11 - 3:47 pm" I agree. More racing the better for me. This is the only sport I know, where most of the fans want less. I like seeing longer races. The longer the race the more the variance. I'm going to miss 500 miles at Pocono. Also, Road course races need to add extra miles. 90 Laps at Watkins Glen isn't enough. Give me more racing please, not less. Just my opinion. 203. Lugnut posted: 08.11.2011 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #202 If we are going to add laps to road courses, NASCAR needs to learn a thing called "local yellows" something that every other road racing series uses. 90 laps at the Glen takes as long as 400 laps at Dover. 110 laps at the Glen would be perfect, if NASCAR uses local yellows. 204. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.11.2011 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 203 should apply to every track. I don't mean local yellows, but NASCARs incredibly urge to throw a caution at the drop of a hat. Increasing race distances won't make any difference if NASCAR is going to continue throwing cautions just for the sake of bringing the field together. 205. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.11.2011 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about caution laps don't can't toward lap total? They do it in Oxford, Maine. 206. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.11.2011 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...don't count 207. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.11.2011 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the Glen should stay at 90 laps, but they should add the boot. They also need to start using the carosel at Sears Point again while keeping the 110 lap distance. They were made so short because, at the time, most NASCAR drivers looked like the monkey with the football on the road courses. Now all the top drivers have really gotten good at road racing (except Kenseth) so its time to challenge them again. 208. 18fan posted: 08.11.2011 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I totally agree with DSFF on the feeling that Watkins Glen needs to use The Boot. I saw what it looks like for the first time on the Tony Stewart-Lewis Hamilton Seat Swap and it looks awesome. 209. cjs3872 posted: 08.11.2011 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With as much pressure on braking systems with the heavier cars, I don't think lenghtening the course is a good idea at all. After all, that's the very reason that NASCAR decided not to use the "boot" when they decided to return there in 1986. Plus, the outer loop is difficult for safety crews to get to if something does happen there. Now, the reason they shortened the course at Sonoma was so that the cars would be visible to the fans more often, as well as add to the excitement. After all, if anyone remembers, when they used the carousel at Sonoma, the race was just 74 laps long, so there really wasn't the opportunity to pass. Actually, there are just as many passing areas at Sonoma now than there were then, if not more, and when the caution came out, a greater percentage of the race distance would be run under that caution flag. After all, when the course at Sonoma was shortened, they also added 50% more laps in the race, extending it from 74 to 112 laps, which has since been decreased to 110. 210. cjs3872 posted: 08.11.2011 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, if they add the carousel and keep the 110 lap distance, the race would take as long as, if not longer than, the recently completed (for the final time) 500-mile race at Pocono, or the races at Dover and Martinsville take to run. The race would take at least three and a half hours to run, and the road courses are the most physically demanding tracks on the circuit, ranking right up there with Bristol and Dover. 211. Cooper posted: 08.11.2011 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, NASCAR used to run 500 mile races on the road courses, and these races would last four sometimes 5 hours. And I'm fine with that. If the drivers could do it back then, then I'm pretty sure the drivers of today could do it again. Plus it would really test the equipment which is a good thing. No one rarely breaks anything anymore. It would put some randomness into the running order, if we put some more stress on the engine and transmission builders. 212. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.11.2011 - 11:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They also need to start using the carosel at Sears Point again while keeping the 110 lap distance." A year or so ago, I wouldn't care either way but recently I watched the 1990 and 1991 races at Sears Point on YouTube, and after watching them I noticed just how challenging that part of the racetrack was and I agree. It would be nice if NASCAR decided to make that part of the racetrack again. 213. cjs3872 posted: 08.12.2011 - 4:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, agreed, but you just couldn't air a race of that length on live television anymore, because very few people would watch it, especially a road course race of that distance. In fact, that's one reason the races at Riverside, which were once 500 miles, were shortened. In 1970, the first year that two races were run at Riverside, the first was 500 miles and the second was 400 miles, but a decision was made to shorten the races substantially, beginning with the second race in 1976. Starting then, the first race would be 500 kilometers/312 miles, the same length that the races in Phoenix are, while the second one would be 400 kilometers/250 miles. In 1981, when three races were run at riverside, the third race was the same distanceas the first one, then the distances of the first two races were switched, with the first one, still in June, being run at the 400 KM distance, while the season finale would be the 500 KM race. That lasted through 1987, the last year that two races were run there. With the track closing in the summer of 1988, the 500 KM race was moved to Phoenix, with the last race there in June of 1988 being run at the 400 KM distance. Having just watched the 1973 Indianapolis 500 on ESPN Classic, you are somewhat correct about the wanting to see the reliability of the cars be a factor again, but the problem with that is, what if you get a situation where the same part breaks on 6-12 cars from different teams. There were six or seven connecting rod bolt failures in that 1973 Indianapolis 500, and that was a result of a bad batch of parts. As a result of that and the usual amount of engine failures and crashes, two of which were enornous, only 10 cars finished that race, despite the fact that it only went two-thirds distance. 214. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.12.2011 - 9:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but recently I watched the 1990 and 1991 races at Sears Point on YouTube, and after watching them I noticed just how challenging that part of the racetrack was and I agree." That part of the course was so cool. They had to make that sharp right hand turn into the carosel, pick up speed then enter a blind, downhill, sweeping left hander where a lot of passes happened (including Earnhardt's famous second to last lap pass of Mark in '95 after Mark hit a slick of rear end grease leading to Dale's only road course win despite a ton of good performances at Riverside, Sonoma, and the Glen to a lesser extent). And from there, they had to pick up as much speed as possible to haul ass up the drag strip into that 180 degree, reverse banked, tight right hander which led to the high speed downhill esses which they still race on after the "Budweiser bottleneck" of the new course. I loved that whole sequence. And yes, cjs, 74 laps was way too short, but I think that was to keep the big names from embarrassing themselves too much. They could run more laps nowadays because the big names have finally figured out how to not make themselves look totally out of place there (except Kenseth). RCRandPenskeGuy, I'm glad you got to watch those races because they were awesome. I don't know if it is on YouTube or not, but sometime try to find the 1992 Sears Point race. In that one, Ernie Irvan started 2nd, jumped the restart big time (I think by the time the pole sitter took the green flag, Ernie was already in the carosel), got black flagged, had to do a stop and go which put him at the back of the entire field (normally a death sentence on a road course), but drove through the entire field and won. Also, try to watch the last 10 laps of the '95 Sears Point race. The first 64 laps saw Mark dominating because he was a hell of a road racer and his car was right. He was untouchable. But sometime near the end, somebody breaks a rear gear, dumping grease all over the track. With it suddenly becoming a battle of who can slide through the turns best, Dale starts catching him, with his car sideways in almost every turn. He stalks him and stalks him, waiting for Mark to slip. Finally, in the carosel, he does, Dale pounces, and finally breaks through for a road course win after a ton of Top 5 finishes on the roadies. In victory lane, he has that classic Earnhardt mischevious grin when talking about how the track was greased. He is trying not to brag because he respected the hell out of Mark, but you could see that famous "Damn I'm Good" gleam in his eyes. Even through those giant Gargoyle sunglasses. 215. 18fan posted: 08.12.2011 - 12:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The end of the '93 race at Sears Point was awesome too. After Earnhardt was out of contention after being involved in a restart crash, Geoff Bodine, Ernie Irvan, and Ricky Rudd battled for the win. At one point Bodine slipped and Irvan passed him, but when Rudd tried to outbrake Bodine into the hairpin, Bodine somehow outbraked Irvan to retake the lead. Bodine held off Irvan and Rudd on a 1 lap shootout while the rest of the field was shuffled up by a last lap crash(with the great image of Bobby Labonte flipping off somebody after his great drive from last place to near the front was ruined) that allowed Earnhardt to come up to sixth. 216. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.12.2011 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1993 was a great duel to the finish. Odd fact: Dale crashed in both road races in '93 bby being collected in somebody else's spin while looking at a win. 217. Foyt14 posted: 08.12.2011 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So all of a sudden Kyle Busch is more mature than Jimmie Johnson. The way Busch has handled his problems this year (Edwards, Harvick, speeding ticket, Childress) has been far better than Johnson has handled his problems (Montoya, pit crew, Earnhardt Jr, Kurt Busch). In their post-race interviews, pre-race interviews, and weekly media availability, Kyle Busch has shown a marked improvement over his past with a strong tendency towards diplomacy with other drivers and apologetic comments about mistakes, while Johnson has often come off as entitled, petty, annoyed, and frustrated with both his on-track and off-track problems with other drivers and his crew. .......WTF is happening to NASCAR? I don't think I can live in a world where Kyle Busch acts more mature than Jimmie Johnson. Johnson better cool down, start focusing on winning some races, and stop letting other drivers get under his skin. This is just getting ridiculous. Johnson's comments about Kurt at the Glen today just come off as childish to me. He spends 5 minutes complaining about Kurt Busch "running his mouth" at Johnson last week (this, after Johnson initiated the confrontation due to what the majority of us agree to be his own mistakes), yet he spends all that time talking to the media, running his own mouth about Busch when he isn't even in the room to defend himself? Tell me, which one is trying to act like the "tough guy" here? Seriously, Johnson needs to shut up about this issue before we all start losing respect for him. He's making Kurt Busch look like a bigger man. I agree with Kurt, it just looked like good hard racing to me last week. Now move on, Jimmie, you're better than that. You're not Kevin Harvick. 218. 00andJoe posted: 08.12.2011 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glen update: Brian Simo in the #46 219. 18fan posted: 08.12.2011 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That 1993 Watkins Glen race was also a great race. Mark Martin dominated, but had problems with an air gun and had to fight through traffic, Kyle Petty, who was the defending race winner, had some mechanical problem and was last about 10 laps through the race, yet was leading the race with 6 laps to go when he spun in the esses and Earnhardt hit Kyle while trying to avoid him, allowing Martin to win the race. It was the beginning of Martin's 4 race win streak for that year and the first of his 3 straight wins from the pole at the Glen. 220. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.13.2011 - 1:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think bits and segments of the 1992 Sears Point race is on YouTube, I haven't gotten around to watching them yet though. I look forward to doing so, however. I've seen the 1995 Sears Point race before on ESPN Classic, and I bought the movie "3" back in '04 (which I regret; I thought it would be good but it was a pile of crap. Earnhardt fans, if you're looking for a good tribute, skip this movie and watch "Dale", a documentary they did on his life and career in '07), and that race is on the Special Features section along with the 1993 Hooters 500, the 1999 IROC race at Michigan and the 1999 Bristol night race. I have also seen the finish to the '93 Sears Point race as well, and that was an exciting finish to say the VERY LEAST. Unfortunately we probably wouldn't see a finish like that nowadays at Sonoma; at least not for the win. 221. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.13.2011 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 3 is truly an awful movie. Watched it on ESPN when it first came out and nearly puked. Kyle's mature public front is sponsor mandated. JJ is showing a lot of frustration and whininess lately to say the very least. But again, he can use that sense of entitlement to make himself a better racer like Gordon did in the late 90's. 222. 00andJoe posted: 08.21.2011 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #66 'sponsor' should simply be HP Racing 223. the_man posted: 09.06.2011 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on a 34th place finish: "'We had a good run getting into turn three. Kyle was pretty fast coming up through the field and I just passed some cars on the bottom, so I went down there and I think two or three other cars had the same idea and I just got pinched down. I had to keep it down and just ran out of race track and got loose and spun it out. I was probably a little too aggressive this early in the race, but if you're not aggressive on the restarts and pass a few cars, once you get strung out after 10 laps you just can't hardly pass. Our car was driving better than it did when they dropped the green flag and I was just trying to be as aggressive as I could and ran out of race track and didn't have enough room to chase it.' 224. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #35 Geoffrey Bodine & #50 T.J. Bell Out using fastest 43: #32 Jason White & #71 Andy Lally 225. Robert Nelson posted: 07.12.2012 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Kyle Busch 198 Carl Edwards 177 Matt Kenseth 148 Ryan Newman gets his 5th 5th of 2011. 226. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 04.24.2014 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew 77 Scott Wimmer Dodge Speed Energy Robby Gordon 227. JasonB2472 posted: 06.30.2014 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The race that, in my opinion, showed that Brad Keselowski was NASCAR's next star. 228. joebev910 posted: 07.29.2015 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i was there 229. Braindead Zombie posted: 05.15.2016 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Up until this race, Keselowski hadn't really done much of anything in the cup series. He had two wins but both of them were kind of flukish, and had an awful first full season and was outside the top 20 in points headed into this race. Then he gets injured in that testing crash at Road Atlanta the week before this race and its like he immediately became a top driver after that. 230. Maverick11 posted: 07.31.2016 - 2:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The last 500 mile race at Pocono. 231. Rich posted: 08.07.2020 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The commentators were Allen Bestwick, Andy Petree and Dale Jarrett. The pit road reporters were Dr. Jerry Punch, Dave Burns, Jamie Little and Vince Welch. And in the ESPN pit studio were Nicole Briscoe, Rusty Wallace and Brad Daugherty. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: