|| *Comments on the 2011 Heluva Good! Sour Cream Dips at The Glen:* View the most recent comment <#261> | Post a comment <#post> 1. 00andJoe posted: 08.13.2011 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave Blaney was fast enough to make the show, but Terry Labonte got the past champion's provisional instead. Shame. If the 38 doesn't run the full race I'll be most unamused. Shame to see the 46 team DNQ, they actually had sponsorship for this race. But the car was wounded after a wreck in practice. Why nobody has sponsored NEMCO yet is beyond me. They keep turning in outstanding qualifying results but can't do anything of it... Kyle Petty gets the "Horrible, Terrible, No Good, Very Bad Pun Award" of the week for referring to Juan Pablo Montoya's team as "the 420 car". 2. 00andJoe posted: 08.13.2011 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also: P.J. Jones went VERY wide in turn 1 on his qualfying lap and threw in the towel. I actually have a strong suspicion he slipped in something the 66 car laid down, as McDowell, who ran just before him, was smoking quite noticably as he pulled into the paddock at the end of his run. Denny Hamlin had a pole-at-the-time run going until he overcooked it coming out of the Carousel, half-looped it, nearly recovered but slammed into the Armco flat-on the right side of the car. He said the car was fixable. Casey Mears blew an engine in practice and will be dropping to the rear. Will somebody please decide exactly how many turns Watkins Glen has and stuck with it? It used to be four turns through the esses, the Carousel was either turn 5 or turn 9 depending on if you counted the Bus Stop as four turns, and then you had turns 10 and 11, turns 6-9 being in The Boot and not used. But now they're referring to the last two turns as 6 and 7. Make up your mind! 3. Ryan posted: 08.13.2011 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin Harvick throws out the first pitch of the Yankees-Angels game other night... Looked like he had some heat behind. He had good arm angle, his mechanics were really good. http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/6854473/nascar-kevin-harvick-threw-first-pitch-yankees-game-heading-watkins-glen 4. 18fan posted: 08.14.2011 - 1:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allmendinger got sideways going into the Carousel and both Larry McReynolds and Kyle Petty thought that killed his lap yet he went faster than Ambrose, but Kyle Busch set the track record and easily won the pole. 5. Spen posted: 08.14.2011 - 5:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I expect the 38 will attempt to go the distance. Yeley parking should give them enough spare cash to run Gilliland and Labonte. Since Blaney was in the 35, he probably would have had to park. T.J. Bell keeps surprising me by making races in Joe Falk's POS. 6. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.14.2011 - 7:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What happened to guys like Ron Fellows being able to use their raw skills to take a 40th place car and finish in the top 5? 7. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.14.2011 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What happened to guys like Ron Fellows being able to use their raw skills to take a 40th place car and finish in the top 5?" The top Cup guys have really got good at road racing (except Kenseth) and are able to match them, and use their superior equipment, teams, and familiarity with the cars to push them over the top. "referring to Juan Pablo Montoya's team as "the 420 car"." HA! Kyle is a much needed shot of irreverence and political incorrectness in this super sensitive era. Let's be honest here, I'm sorry, I don't care, that is incredible. 8. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.14.2011 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't envision them racing today. 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.14.2011 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did June just wake up? 10. Cooper posted: 08.14.2011 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.14.11 - 2:09 pm" I think Jr. has speech impediment. Every interview he does has a 3 second pause in it. He's not very coherent. Q: So Dale, how is your car today? A: Ahhhh, ya know we're (insert 3 seconds of silence) good. Q: Talk about your plans for today race? A: (insert 3 seconds of silence) Well I'm ah ah gonna drive fast. (scratches beard and/or hat). Back to you AB. But Jr. is cool. Don't mind him at all. 11. irony posted: 08.14.2011 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No excuse for not racing the Cup cars in the rain. 12. Jocke Persson posted: 08.14.2011 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) answer to #10 I don't really think Punch is considerate when interviewing Dale. Everytime I see him interview Dale he always seems to have to mention his dad. "Your father always used to say..." "Your father drove really good at this place..." etc I'd like to believe that a guy (Dale) gets a little put off when hearing his passed father mentioned all the time. That could be a reason for his strange answers and silences. The fact that his dad comes up in his mind because someone mentions him unexpectedly. Why not just leave Sr out of the questions for a change. This is just something I've noticed the last couple of weeks when Punch is doing the interview. On another note, can anyone help out with a music question? I'm watching the ESPN feed, and about an hour ago during this rain-delay after a commercial break, you could hear from trackside speakers a song I instantly recognised but can't remember the title to. It starts off with a quitar going weeeoo weeeoo weeeoo.......weeeoo weeeoo weeeoo da da da da da, and the singer (guy) starts some lyrics. Hahaha not an easy one to answer I know, but I'm hoping :) 13. Ryan posted: 08.14.2011 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This is just something I've noticed the last couple of weeks when Punch is doing the interview." He has done it a lot more than the last couple of weeks. I'm sure it does bother him. Especially the way that it went down with him running in front of him. I think sometimes we forget these guys are human and not just race car drivers. Like they are supposed to be super men with no emotions. It has been over ten years Jerry, time to quit asking and referring to his dad every single question or statement you tell or ask him on TV. 14. 18fan posted: 08.14.2011 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race is postponed until 10 AM Eastern Monday morning. 15. cjs3872 posted: 08.14.2011 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, 18fan, the second time in three years that this race has been postponed due to rain. As for not running in the rain with rain tires, irony, did you see the race at Montreal a few years ago when they did run in the rain, because it was an absolute disaster. There are several reasons why it is foolish to run in the rain with stock cars. First, you have the weight of the cars, which is 3400 lbs, making it impracticle, especially with the skinnier tires. Then, you have the safety situation with the drivers driving blind, not just because of the wipers, which don't always work, but because of fogging, both in the cockpit, but also inside the helmet. Not running stock cars in the rain on a road course is as much a safety situation, rather than a competition situation, because it is unsafe to do so because the drivers just can not see where they are going with the spray from the cars ahead, as well as the fogging inside the car, as well as inside the helmet, so not running in the rain is the only sensible thing you can do. Remember that in open-cockpit cars that do run in the rain on road courses, the drivers can alleviate some of the safety risks by cracking the visors to take care of the fogging problem, and there is no problem with windshield wipers, as well as the fact that the cars are much lighter, so they can run in the rain, unless it's so heavy that it floods the track, making it undriveable, even at the slowest speeds, like what happened at the 1975 Indianapolis 500, which sent six cars spinning at the finish. 16. 00andJoe posted: 08.14.2011 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sad that they'd run rain tires on the Nationwide cars but not the Cup cars. 17. Unser1 posted: 08.14.2011 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Canadian Tire series champion Andrew Ranger makes his Cup debut in Frank Stoddard's #32 18. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.14.2011 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs: The Le Mans Series cars do it at NIGHT and their GTs are essentially NASCARs with a sportscar body. Imagine, they were going to try to run it as long as it wasn't "sunset" yet. 19. cjs3872 posted: 08.14.2011 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But, NicoRosbergFan, those cars are much lighter than stock cars are, so they could handle the rain, and they also have headlights, so they could handle darkness, as well. And you're forgetting about the GrandAm Series, the same is true there about how correct your point is. Now, is it me, or was that last attempt at a restart in the IndyCar race an almost exact duplicate of what happened when they first tried to start the All-Star Race in 2001, when they got the green flag, and at that exact same time, a heavy rain desended upon the Charlotte Motor Speedway at that time. At least they reverted the results back to before the attempt of that final restart, which was doomed to fail. I was actually watching on TV and looking at the flagstand, wondering when the red flag would come out, but instead the did a restart, which of course wasn't going to work. That race was butchered almost as much as the 1973 Indianapolis 500 was before Swede Savage's crash, as far as racing on an unsafe track was concerned. (In the '73 Indy 500, the problem was oil on the track, rather than rain at the time of Savage's crash.) 20. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.14.2011 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A V8 Supercar is very, very similar to a stock car and they run in conditions far worse than those that have seen NASCAR races postponed. But post #15 is completely right, the cars just are not currently equipped to run in the rain. But why is that so? I mean, we all know that rain is a serious possibility any time you go to a race track, so why is every road course car equipped with a heated windscreen, REAL windscreen wipers and high-intensity rain light on the back of the car? The wet NNS race at Montreal a few years back was farcical and at times, laughable - that really was a joke of a race. But that is completely avoidable. The cars should be equipped with these basic safety devices regardless of it being likely to rain or not. That way if the weather does turn ugly, everything just continues as per normal. 21. 00andJoe posted: 08.14.2011 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How does a car being -lighter- make it easier to run in the rain? It seems to me a -heavier- car would be better off, as it's less likely to hydroplane. 22. cjs3872 posted: 08.14.2011 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But, M535i, you'd still have the 10-inch tires (I think that's how wide they are) on a 34oo lb. car, as well as the fogging that would take place inside the car, as well as inside the helmet. Remember, as far the Cup series goes, Watkins Glen is the only road race where this is a possibility, since the other road course race is hel in June at Sonoma, CA, where, of course, it NEVER rains that time of year, so creating rain tires for just ONE event during a year, where there's a possibility where thry ma not be needed, does not make any sense. Also, with the distinct possibility that the race may be rained out again tomorrow, as there's a 60% chance of rain in tomorrow's forecast, the question of whether the entire second half of the season, when potential weather problems are more likely than in the first half of the season, should be run without a built-in rain week, in case of postponements due to weather. This exact situation came up two years ago at Watkins Glen, when the race was rained out, as well as the August race at Michigan, I believe in 2007, when it was postponed TWICE due to rain, and run on a Tuesday. With potential weather problems the second half of the season, there should be at least one scheduled off-week, in for no other reason, should a race be postponed (especially if it's postponed twice), to have that race run during the off-week. (Remember the situation regarding the fall race at Loudon in 2001, and how it had to be run the day after Thanksgiving that year, due to the 9/11 attacks.) 23. cjs3872 posted: 08.14.2011 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, those lighter cars also have aerodynamic devices that creates much more downforce than a stock car would create, so it would be better equipped to run in the rain. If anything, a stock car, becuase of it's relative lack of downforce might actually create lift, making the cars even less stable in that kind of a situation, especially with the narrower tires. 24. irony posted: 08.14.2011 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As for not running in the rain with rain tires, irony, did you see the race at Montreal a few years ago when they did run in the rain, because it was an absolute disaster." Yes. Also saw them do it just fine a year earlier. Nationwide races at road courses tend to be a disaster, wet or dry. The first attempt in the rain in 2008 was actually the cleanest race at Montreal to date. Watkins Glen has way more run off than Montreal anyway, aside from the esses. 25. cjs3872 posted: 08.14.2011 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And one thing I forgot to mention about running in the rain is the lack of visibility that often happens due to lack of light, in addition to the spray from the cars in front, as well as the fogging that takes place, both inside the car and inside the helmet. Running a stock car in the rain, even with the proper equipment, as far as tires and wipers go, is basically as unsafe as it gets in stock car racing. You could probably run rain tires with a stock car on a track that is just coated by rain water, but anything more than that just creates an unsafe condition, and I think NASCAR has figured that out, at least as far as the Cup cars are concerned. 26. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.14.2011 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jocke, I agree. I am not a fan of June's, but it is really disrespectful the way they keep bringing his Dad up to him. Why open that wound up again? I was a huge fan of Dale's from the time I was very little and I still have a fun time reliving some of the great memories he left us (hence my screen name), but if I were ever to hang around June, I would not ask about his Dad. As much as I would probably enjoy hearing old stories about him, I wouldn't put his son through that. But that just seems to be the way a lot of people are going about it. The are basically exploiting Dale and his passing for their own gain. That is one of the many reasons I was so put off by Mikey making his book about Dale's passing into a movie. The book was bad enough. The Truck race pony show at Daytona him and Darrell put on was absolutely vomit inducing. Now this? 27. Anonymous85 posted: 08.14.2011 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: Though I think They should remove Darrell from the Fox broadcast team I'm Afraid Darrell would sue NASCAR and Fox because in his mind he thinks he is one of the best announcers in this sport(which is isn't he is one of the worst and he thinks he is above the sport and its fans and thinks he can probably get away with anything. (which you are not Darrell without the sport and its fans you would be nothing and nowhere) 28. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.14.2011 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cj, there is more to it than just tyres and wipers. Heated windscreens are necessary to prevent fogging and an LED rain light on the rear of the car should also be mandated to allow the drivers to clearly see the car in front. It can be done, and quite easily. Also, I believe you're dead wrong with your comments about stock cars being too difficult to handle in the wet conditions. I actually believe a Cup car would be easier to drive than a GT2 class Corvette or Porsche 911. Because those cars are so stiffly sprung, the cars become very twitchy and overly sensitive in wet conditions, while the Cup cars, with their softer suspension and extra weight will have better road holding due to not being able to change direction as fast. The body roll absorbs the inertia that would normally sent a car spinning and the longer wheelbase of the cars makes slides easier to predict and control. If NASCAR wants to run a test session to prove me wrong, I'm all for that. But the reasons that they've given as to why they don't race in the rain really don't sell it to me one little bit. Chad Knaus was spot on with his comments (http://www.nascar.com/news/110814/watkins-glen-rain-tires/index.html). So, in short, it should be mandatory for all road course cars to have heated windscreens - front and rear - wipers and an LED rain light. Doesn't matter if it's likely to rain or not, the cars should be fitted with this gear anyway, so that in the event of rain, everything can carry on as planned. And you should watch some V8 Supercar races. 29. Spen posted: 08.14.2011 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSSF : Speaking of Mikey, I'd like to hear your input on the thought I posted on his driver page. 30. Frank posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, as myothercarisanM535i said - just go and watch V8 Supercars. This April, on street course in Hamilton, NZ, it was so much rain that F1, IRL and DTM will definitely postpone racing. But V8 guys RACED and it looked like there is NO rain at all! That's how professional these drivers are. Heavier car, better grip in the rain, you know? Because of less chance sliding tires on water that goes between tyre and surface. Anyway, Nationwide, Montreal, 2008. Do you think Cup drivers less skilled? (They less skilled than V8s on road courses, surely, but N'wide?) 31. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 9:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unfortunately with any announcer, there is bound to be a conflict of interest somewhere. With the strong family ties in this sport and the number of people they have worked with and either gained a ton of affection for or a ton of resentment for, it is hard to avoid. People like Ned Jarrett, who handled the balancing act of covering DJ between talking objectively about him and being a father wanting to see his son succeed as well as you possibly can, are very few and far between. Actually, I don't have that much of a problem with Darrell covering Mikey, except for that Daytona Truck race this year. The fact is him and Mikey really aren't very close. If you go back and watch replays of the final laps of the '01 Daytona 500 as it happened live on FOX, even as Mikey was about to have the ultimate breakthrough, Darrell was obviously watching Dale more closely than Mikey. He is in the process of saying "the 3 car is out of shape" as he began the spin that would lead to his fatal wreck well before he took that final lunge into the wall. It is Larry that has to re-direct Darrell back to the fact his brother is about to win the Daytona 500 for his first win in almost 500 starts. And afterwards, when they are showing Darrell on camera, he is looking to his left over towards Turn 4 and is clearly more worried about Dale than he is happy for Mikey. He knew that angle Dale took was bad, and that was obviously first and foremost on his mind. The biggest problem I have with DW is his man crush on Kyle Busch. There is no objectivity at all there. And the biggest announcing issue I have is Rusty and the way he covers Steve. That is blatent and ridiculous. Spen, I'm going to Mikey's page now. 32. . posted: 08.15.2011 - 10:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did David Ragan just blow through pit road, and knowing he was already going to get a penalty and his teammate ran out of fuel, still didn't pit? 33. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 10:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yep, and then he promptly ran out of fuel. 34. Anonymous posted: 08.15.2011 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Kurt Busch wreck could have been prevented if NASCAR didn't remove the gravel traps to assist the few talentless (Reutimann, Skinner, Yeley) who immolate themselves every time NASCAR goes here. 35. Anonymous posted: 08.15.2011 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't mean Yeley, Skinner, and Reuti are talentless; they just can't get around a road course. 36. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 11:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ouch. Glad Denny walked away. His car looked like Brad's at Road Atlanta. TV showed he hit at 60 mph and that was a violent wreck. Brad hit at 100 mph. No wonder he broke his feet. That has to hurt. 37. Rusty posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one who is sick of this Sprint Challenge garbage? It isn't a big deal and it is a stupid corporate plug in for ESPN. I don't want an update on this crap nor care. 38. Scott B posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marcos Ambrose, 5th first time winner of the 2011 season. 39. . posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. What a finish. I'm glad all those guys are all right. On another note, congrats to Marcos Ambrose for FINALLY winning one of these things. 40. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was pulling like hell for Brad, but Marcos deserves a road win. Congrats to him and RPM. Thank the Good Lord that Ragan and Reut were able to walk away. Two violent angle impacts. 41. . posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On another note, Brad Keselowski is unofficially 14th in points. What can the Brad haters say to that? 42. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was a long time coming for Ambrose, but Kyle handed him that win on a silver platter by overdriving turn 1. Another great drive by Keselowski. 43. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! Brad: it hurts so good. I think we are seeing him break through to the top level. 44. 12345Dude posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great ending was really cheering for Brad. I was just wondering something. Who cares what "wildcards" make the chase? None of them are going to be title contenders. Good race, good mature interview by Kyle Busch. I think you can make it offical. Road ringers are done. These nascar drivers have gotten so good at road courses. Brad K stinks at road courses, and he finished 2nd. If I was nascar instead of having the chase, have the points system go like this. 5th 39 Points 4th 40 Points 3rd 41 Points 2nd 42 Points 1st 60 Points This would get rid of the "dominating seasons" that the old system brought. Your down by 50 points. Win some races. And you're back in it. 45. 12345Dude posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd do that, and get rid of the chase. 46. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That crash at the end was a scary one, but the place where David Ragan hit the fence is eerily reminiscent of where Swede Savage hit in the 1973 Indianapolis 500, because of the angle of the fence. Frankly, I'm surprised there hasn't been a bad accident at that part of the track before this. Ragan might be in even worse shape if that wasn't a giving guard rail. Lost in that was the fact that Tony Stewart, who restarted seventh, also got crashed later on that final lap. One thing is for sure, this race, especially the end, is going to shuffle the points big time, especially from about ninth through 25th in points. It certainly will effect the points in that part of the order. 47. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle picks up his series leading 12th top 5 of the year(including 10 top 3 finishes) and ties Carl Edwards for the lead with 14 top 10s. AJ Allmendinger rebounds from being rammed off the track by Kurt Busch while Kurt was trying to get his lap back to unofficially finish 8th. 48. Kinetic posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle's going to be kicking himself if the last two weeks end up costing him in the chase. He could've really separated himself from the rest of the field if he had won both races. I still think he wins at Richmond or Bristol before the chase though. 49. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The win by Ambrose also puts him in the All-Star Race next year, the field for which is getting really crowded, though one eligible driver, Trevor Bayne, will not br running it next year, even though he's eligible. Mark Martin, who's also eligible from his 2005 victory, might also not run if he doesn't have a car to drive in the event. Also, the Denny Hamlin crash was almost an exact replay of Jimmie Johnson's Nationwide crash in 2000, though not as serious due to the pavement in that same area, as his car didn't actually get airborne, as Johnson's Nationwide car did in 2000. 50. Rusty posted: 08.15.2011 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Boris Said is an idiot. The guy just is a wrecking ball anymore and now he is calling people wussies as he fights with his helmet on. 51. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think without the Paul Menard caution Kyle's 2 stop strategy very easily could have prevailed over Ambrose's 3 stop. Still, it looked like, with the exception of Ambrose, the 2 stop strategy was the better strategy. 52. Anonymous posted: 08.15.2011 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Can't believe that Keselowski nearly had a win fall right into his lap two weeks in a row. First Ambrose spins his tires, then Busch overdrives turn 1. I don't think I would have been able to handle another lucky win and weeks worth of media masturbation about Keselowski's "courage" and "determination" to drive a car with a foot that's apparently so hurt that he can still walk briskly on it to and from his car. 53. Anonymous posted: 08.15.2011 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First Aussie to win and first driver racing as being from the western hemisphere to win. 54. Anonymous posted: 08.15.2011 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) eastern, you mean. 55. Ryan posted: 08.15.2011 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It was a long time coming for Ambrose, but Kyle handed him that win on a silver platter by overdriving turn 1. Another great drive by Keselowski. It's called pressure. Before the caution he was breaking hard in the turns, you could tell by the tire smoke. Ambrose was just setting him up. "I think we are seeing him break through to the top level." Without a doubt, he is becoming a threat at about every race. "Good race, good mature interview by Kyle Busch." It was going well until he blamed the sprinkles on his windshield, nevermind everyone else had to deal with it, too. I said last week Dale Jr. would not get a top 10, well with all the wrecking in front of him he got a huge 14th place finish which probably felt like a top five for him. Some of his closest "chasers" in the points, Hamlin and Stewart, had bad days. No, he isn't out of the woods yet, but this was a much needed cushion for his Chase hopes. 56. RLB posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon finished 11th not 13th. Worst accident at the Glen in 20 year's(McDuffie's fatal wreck in 1991)with Ragan and Reutimann. 57. beau posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i don't think i've ever seen a crash like that on a road course. 58. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In NASCAR's official results Gordon finished 13th, he was unofficially 11th. 59. RLB posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar's result's may differ from mine. 60. beau posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) now aj is the only one left on the need to win list. 61. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With the win by Ambrose, it means that 2011 is the first year since 1983 that both Petty's team, regardless of name, and the Wood Brothers have won in the same year. (Petty won three times in 1983, while Buddy Baker won the Firecracker 400 for the Wood Brothers that year.) Also, Ambrose will be the 17th confirmed driver in next year's All-Star Race. By car number, here are those 17 drivers, with certainly more on the way: 1. 2-Brad Keselowski 2. 4-Kasey Kahne (will be in car #5 next year, qualified through his 2008 win) 3. 5-Mark Martin (expected to drive in next year's event for wihch he's qualified from his 2005 win, though team and car number are unknown) 4. 6-David Ragan 5. 9-Marcos Ambrose 6. 11-Denny Hamlin 7. 14-Tony Stewart 8. 17-Matt Kenseth 9. 18-Kyle Busch 10. 22-Kurt Busch 11. 24-Jeff Gordon 12. 27-Paul Menard 13. 29-Kevin Harvick 14. 39-Ryan Newman 15. 48-Jimmie Johnson 16. 78-Regan Smith 17. 99-Carl Edwards NOTE: Trevor Bayne is also eligible through his Daytona 500 win, but will probably not have a ride next year, so he won't be in the race. 62. potatosalad48 posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Crazy finish which saw David Ragan crash hard into the guardrail and David Reuitimann flip over after being hit by Ragan. Denny Hamlin also took a huge hit when his brakes failed going into turn 1. Greg Biffle and Boris Said had a confrontation after the race where Biffle was apparently angry at Said for wrecking Ragan. Boris escaped a crowd of pit crew members and nearly got his hands on Biffle but was held back again. Marcos Ambrose gets his 1st career win amid the chaos and becomes the 5th 1st time winner in 2011. Jeff Burton, after 22 races FINALLY gets his 1st top 10 finish of the year in 9th. Another amazing drive by Brad Keselowski to finish 2nd. 63. £ posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And beau, dave Blaney needs a win too and he'll get one 64. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, RLB, as I mentioned, both hits in that crash were somewhat like Swede Savage's crash in the 1973 Indianapolis 500, though not at as high of speed. Again, I'm surprised there hasn't been a crash like that at that point on the track until now, because the way fences jet back onto the track at that point of the track, a terrible crash like that was just waiting for a place and time to happen. There have been other bad crashes at the Glen in recent years, though on othetr parts of the track. As I remember, both Jeffs (Burton and Gordon), as well as Sam Hornish, Jr. had a crash just as bad on the short strightaway between turns five and six, the same weekend that Jason Leffler had a bad crash in that exact same part of the track in 2009, and there was a huge crash at the head of the main straightaway involving a lot of cars, including Hornish and Bobby Labonte, among many others late in the 2008 race there. And of course, turn one has been the sight of numerous bad crashes, including Denny hamlin's today, as well as Jimmie Johnson's infamous wreck in 2000 in a Nationwide car. Rick Mast had a bad crash exiting turn six many years ago, so there have been numerous bad crashes in the last 20 years, but the one ot the end ot today's race definately takes the cake. 65. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Best interview of the year: Boris Said I've been waiting for somebody to say something to the effect of "I'm not gonna tear up anybody's car because that only affects the crew guys, but I will find them in public sometime during the week and beat the piss outta them!" I don't know who is right or wrong in Biff vs Boris. I haven't seen any video between the two. But is was funny watching Biff hiding behind his crew members. If it is how Boris described it, he claims Biff walked up to him while he was still strapped in, threw some punches, then ran, then that is really weak. He was a long way from Boris' car and behind a bunch of crewmen. This is one time when I would excuse Boris for still having his helmet on, he probably couldn't wait to go to Biff and rough him up. Either way this batch of drivers are the biggest bunch of p***ies ever. I wish we could get a time machine and unleash the 1972 AJ Foyt on them and beat the hell out of 3/4 of them. 66. Bronco posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm a little confused by the race results. The #14 came across the track and collected the #33 and squeezed him into the wall, so how was the #33 still scored as 11th? It looked like the #99, #24, #17 and #88 all passed the #33 after it came to rest. This race is a huge slap in the face for WGI and its lack of soft walls. No less than 5 cars had devastating crashes - David Ragan's comments about some dirt tracks being more safe were pretty accurate. Reutimann's crash was absolutely horrific, it looked like a car at Talladega after having gone airborne. Jeff Burton's first top 10 since Martinsville last October, that was also a 9th place finish. Last year he also finished 9th at the Glen and was up to 3rd in points before his season collapsed. Martin Truex gets his first top 5 since Martinsville in April 2010, this is only his second top 5 in the #56. After seeing this race, I'm going to say 2011 is going to be the worst year of Tony's career. This was his worst finish at his best track, and he finished well outside the top 10 at both road course events this year. Aside from Ambrose, Dale Jr is probably the most fortunate driver coming out of the Glen - he finished well ahead of Hamlin and Stewart and increased his cushion over 11th at one of his worst tracks. Given that he usually runs well at the next 4 tracks, I think he will finally make the chase. Marcos finally scores a long overdue win by moving the #2 out of the way. Hopefully he makes up for the past and also wins at Montreal this Saturday. 67. Talk4Tar posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Boris Said is an idiot. The guy just is a wrecking ball anymore and now he is calling people wussies as he fights with his helmet on." The 6 gave him no room just like he said. His didn't let himself get driven off of the track, don't see what's wrong with that. It's unfortunate what happened with the 6 and 00, but the 6 gave him no room. As for "fighting with his helmet on" according to Boris, Biffle came over and got in his face while Boris was still sitting in the car taking off the belts and other stuff. Can Boris be faulted because he responded immediately to getting assaulted while sitting in the car? Why make yourself vulnerable in a heated situation by temporarily blinding yourself and taking the helmet off, when you can leave it on and have an even better advantage over someone who provoked you first? If anyone should be faulted for Boris wearing his helmet, it should be Biffle who decided to try and pick a fight with someone still in the car. THAT is a bitch move. "Can't believe that Keselowski nearly had a win fall right into his lap two weeks in a row. First Ambrose spins his tires, then Busch overdrives turn 1. I don't think I would have been able to handle another lucky win and weeks worth of media masturbation about Keselowski's "courage" and "determination" to drive a car with a foot that's apparently so hurt that he can still walk briskly on it to and from his car." Yeah! How dare that dirty Keselowski and his no good cheating crew chief Paul Wolfe use STRATEGY to get in a position to win a race multiple weeks in a row! We all know no team has every used that before, so damn them for trying to use their cheating technique called RACE STRATEGY to get into a position to win races! HOW DARE THEY!? In all seriousness though... You're stupid and clearly ignorant as to how auto racing works. Do yourself a favor and stick to watching things that are less complicated for you, such as baseball or The Joy of Painting with Bob Ross. 68. RLB posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What the hell is Keselowski doing so wrong to have people already hating on him when he start's breaking out and driving like a winner? 69. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is something else, last year the exact same situation happened with Boris on the other end of it, getting turned by Tony. The announcers were quick to say that was all Boris' fault. Now, with the shoe on the foot, Boris still gets the blame from ESPN. 70. RLB posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony spinning Boris last year was a total prick move, and Boris got the blame because he isn't one of the corporate driver's. 71. RLB posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose had 30 fastest laps while Kyle had 9. 72. Matthew Sullivan posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How could the 33 finish 11th when he was involved in the wreck with the 14? Makes no sense. 73. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HA! Not every Australian was happy about Ambrose's win: http://www.sbnation.com/2011/8/15/2364481/nascar-marcos-ambrose-will-power-watkins-glen-victory-2011/in/2033792 Got this one from twitter. Hilarious. 74. Smokefan05 posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Marcos finally scores a long overdue win by moving the #2 out of the way. Hopefully he makes up for the past and also wins at Montreal this Saturday." Marocs never touched Brad, Brad gave Marcos room. If Brad didn't then both Brad and Marcos may have wrecked. Since Sonoma was a "boring" road racing, then the glen made up for it. For some reason i had a feeling Marcos wouldn't screw it up and he didn't. "Can't believe that Keselowski nearly had a win fall right into his lap two weeks in a row. First Ambrose spins his tires, then Busch overdrives turn 1. I don't think I would have been able to handle another lucky win and weeks worth of media masturbation about Keselowski's "courage" and "determination" to drive a car with a foot that's apparently so hurt that he can still walk briskly on it to and from his car." Another Brad hater, anyone else want to join in? 75. RLB posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #72 he didn't,Gordon did, and Nascar failed to properly place them in the correct position's. 76. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Burton's first Top 10 of the season The 3 drivers so far in the Sprint Summer Showdown only have a combined 5 career wins. WGI needs to do something about the wall after turn 1 just.....sticking out like that. David Ragan's hit was exactly like Jason Leffler's hit at that same spot last year. Once you hit the wall like that you come right back into the middle of the track where cars are just waiting to nail you. 77. Patrick posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Marcos Ambrose on his first career cup win. and Boris doing what he did to which resulted in Reutimann and Ragan's cars being torn all to hell that was a BS move on his part. I'm proud of Greg Biffle standing up for his teammate cause that was a stupid move on Boris Said's part. straight up stupid. 78. Evan posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marcos Ambrose is the second foreign driver to win in NASCAR and the first Autralian to win a Cup race. Did not get to see the race because of circumstances but a great win for Ambrose. This has been a good season with all the different winners but there is way too much media attention, sheesh. Brad Keselowski stuck it out, thats a good win...never saw Bob Jenkins, Benny Parsons, and Ned Jarrett milk Davey Allison's win after his broken ribs. 79. Dodge posted: 08.15.2011 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Kurt Busch wreck could have been prevented if NASCAR didn't remove the gravel traps to assist the few talentless (Reutimann, Skinner, Yeley) who immolate themselves every time NASCAR goes here. I think part of the reason for getting rid of the gravel traps had to do with Indycar but not 100% sure. As for the walls at The Glen, it is a road course and NASCAR does things different at road courses like not requiring them to have the SAFER walls. That may change but don't expect NASCAR will do anything. Watkins Glen will make some kind of change I think but nothing drastic. 80. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They took away the gravel traps because they were causing so many cautions. Everytime somebody spun out in Turns 1 or 6 or the inner loop, they would have to throw the yellow to get a wrecker out there. That would happen about 3 or 4 times per race and was annoying as hell. It is definitely time for some major safety improvements at The Glen. Seems like every year there is at least one savage wreck there. Plus the angles of the walls are awful. 81. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interseting stat. With his win, Marcos Ambrose becomes the eighth active driver with ONE victory, joining Trevor Bayne, Paul Menard, Joey Logano, Casey Mears, David Ragan, Regan Smith, and Martin Truex, Jr. in that group. Yet, of those drivers, only Ambrose and Logano are likeliest to win any time soon. Ambrose, while a road course expert, has run very strong at other tracks, so he might get a second win sooner than anyone thinks, and Logano, just as he did last year, is getting stronger as the year progresses. Meanwhile, Bayne, Mears, Smith, and Ragan may very well never win again (I make it a 5-10% chance that any of them win again, and Smith is the likeliest choice in that group of four), in fact, Bayne will more than likely be without a ride in Cup next year, and possibly Nationwide as well, due to lack of sponsorship, and either Ragan or Mears might join him on the sidelines, while Truex and Menard are solid, but not spectacular drivers. The next driver to score a second Cup victory will, in my mind, be either Ambrose, Logano, or someone that hasn't even scored their first victory yet. I wonder who other posters think might be the next to score a second victory? do you think it will be one of the top two one-time winners, Ambrose or Logano, one of the other six longshots, Bayne, Ragan, Smith, Menard, Mears, or Truex, or someone that hasn't even won on the Cup level yet? 82. Talon64 posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I only really saw the last couple laps of the race. Pretty good time to tune in though with Keselowski taking the lead for a third of a lap then Ambrose taking over the rest of the way for a MUCH deserved first career Cup win! But I really would've liked to see BraKes win too just to really stick it to the haters. Apparently his almost-win is doing just as good a job of that. Kyle throws away the win but manned up and took responsibility for his screw-up. The important thing for him isn't to make zero mistakes, but to make sure that making one doesn't screw up his head and cause him to screw up even more and it looks like he's finally learning to do that. Whether he can keep his head on straight in the Chase is still the big question, but this is a good sign. Joey Logano pulled a Carl Edwards this weekend. In 2009 at Montreal Carl totalled a DP car he was supposed to share with Marcos Ambrose in the Grand-Am race and they couldn't run; Carl went on to pass Ambrose on the last turn to win the Nationwide race. This weekend Joey Logano looked like he was going to win the GT pole but totalled the car, they had to go to a back-up and ended up failing to finish the race, but went on to finish 3rd and 5th in the Nationwide and Cup races respectively. Matt Kenseth was pretty pessimistic about his chances this weekend on Twitter, but still ended up 14th. That's pretty much been his MO on road courses, survive until the end to grab a decent finish, especially at Watkins Glen where he's actually got a 15th place average finish in his career. The Hamlin, Ragan and Reutimann wrecks were nuts! Glad that they were okay. But I'm not taking Boris Said's side in this. Frankly I thought he was as whiny as anybody in his interview and there's no excuse for picking a fight when you're still wearing your helmet. No wonder Biffle was staying behind his crewmen! If Boris thinks Biffle's deserving of a black eye then he should give himself a punch to the orbital bone. BTW with the change to the official results, Carl Edwards and Kyle Busch are now tied for the point lead at 752 points each. But with Kyle having 3 wins, he gets the tiebreaker so he's officially the new point leader! I wouldn't be surprised if Carl wins at Michigan and Atlanta (he'd win that Sprint showdown whatever if he did) while Kyle wins at Bristol and Richmond in the next 4 weeks. 83. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again, DSFF, with the angles of the walls, especially with the wrecks today, remind me of what happened in Swede Savage's 1973 Indy wreck, though today's hits obviously didn't happen at nearly the same speed. Isn't it ironic that these incidents, as well as the controversy about the IndyCar restart occurring on an unsafe track happen just days after the 1973 Indianapolis 500 aired for the first time on ESPN Classic, since Savage crashed in that race because they were running on an unsafe track, not to mention the controversy surrounding the original start of that race. 84. Schroeder51 posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Had to miss this race due to other plans. But I had a chance to see the finish. Way to go MARCOS! The third ever foreigner to win in NASCAR. Ugly crash by Denny Hamlin and a truly horrible crash for David Ragan and David Reutimann. Years ago they would not be walking away from a crash like that. 85. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad has another great finish, this time proving he just might have the handle on road courses. To everyone who says he would have lucked into the win because of Kyle overdriving, that's how races are won: you put yourself in position to win and circumstances will dictate the outcome. As of now, he's a relevant Cup driver. On the NNS page this weekend, I stated that the original drivers have been catching up to the road specialists on tracks like these, and even though Marcos won this race I still stand by that. Kyle Busch still led the most laps. But Marcos ran a great race too, which puts this in a different category than Sonoma of 2010 since he won this one. 86. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano's problem is that he gets stronger as the year goes on but he starts so bad that consistently finishing in the top 10 is what he does by the end of the season. He could be a serious contender if he didn't start every season so bad. With the teammates he has and the equipment he has, it won't be long before he's a weekly contender. 87. Talk4Tar posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This Kurt Busch wreck could have been prevented if NASCAR didn't remove the gravel traps to assist the few talentless (Reutimann, Skinner, Yeley) who immolate themselves every time NASCAR goes here." ...the gravel traps were removed and paved because of IndyCar. 100% because WGI was bringing the IRL in. 88. Talk4Tar posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, saw this Twitter post from Ryan McGee from ESPN, which corroborates what Boris Said said earlier. "Biffle came over to Said's car in garage, punched him thru the window net. Boris climbed out & went after him, 16 crew intervened." So, Greg Biffle tried to assault someone still strapped into a race car! After Boris was nearly driven off the track by the 6 car! I swear, some people need their eyes checked on that incident. 89. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But for some reason, 18fan, the #20 team has NEVER started a season strong, even when Tony Stewart was winning championships, they never started strong. Maybe, one of these years, Greg Zipadelli will focus on starting a season as fast as he seems to be able to finish one. 90. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott Speed's reason for start and parking via Facebook: "Broke our trackbar today in the race at Watkins Glen when the 34 got into us, ended our day." 91. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRandPenskeGuy, your statement about putting yourself in a position to win and then circumstances will determine the outcome was always Richard Petty's way of racing. That was always his philosiphy about winning races. He has always said that the best you could on a given day was to put yourself in a position to win, then the circumstances from there would determine the outcome. 92. New 14&88 Fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great win by Marcos Ambrose, about time the Amazing Aussie finally caught a break and it's great to see RPM back in victory lane.Heck of a drive by Brad too the whole #2 team has really picked it up after looking like crap the first few races.They aren't locked into the chase by any means(the wild card gimmick is just that, a gimmick)but if they keep this up a top-15 maybe even top-10 points finish may not be out of the question. Great runs for Martin Truex Jr., Logano, Allmendinger and Jeff Burton. A lot of hard hits in this one, Denny Hamlin looks the throttle hung on his car and sent him head on into the tire barrier off turn one(fortunately it wasn't as bad as JJ's N'wide wreck there in 2000)and then on last lap David Ragan cut across Boris Said and whacked the guardrail in turn two then bounced back into the path of David Reutimann causing him to hit the other guardrail so hard he turned over...OUCH!!! Thank God everyone was alright but hard wrecks seem to be becoming a theme here. "Can't believe that Keselowski nearly had a win fall right into his lap two weeks in a row. First Ambrose spins his tires, then Busch overdrives turn 1. I don't think I would have been able to handle another lucky win and weeks worth of media masturbation about Keselowski's "courage" and "determination" to drive a car with a foot that's apparently so hurt that he can still walk briskly on it to and from his car." It's funny how whenever Kyle Busch wins and complain you call them on it with your holier-then-thou way yet here you are doing the same thing about Brad in the comments section of a race HE DIDN'T WIN.Because heaven forbid a driver and his crew chief use race strategy to try and win the race with a good car. In short, go choke on your grapes.Shrub isn't complaining and neither should you. 93. Matthew Sullivan posted: 08.15.2011 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's yet to be noted that Junior looked to have a car capable of running well into the top 10. Junior hit the pits nearly out of gas when Biffle ran out and brought the caution. It turned to be good fortune for the 88 as it put him in the top 5 on the subsequent restart. Junior didn't have anything for the likes of Busch or Keselowski, but was running comfortably in the top 5 until the next stop where he ran out of fuel and lost several positions. During the caution flag for Hamlin's stop, Letarte brought Junior in for gas only which was a mistake. Junior pitted the next lap and took on four tires. The caution for Menard's issue proved to be a blessing for Junior as he was able to restart 21st and finish 15th making up 6 spots on the green/white/checker, only one of those due to a wrecked car (Stewart.) 94. Talon64 posted: 08.15.2011 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marcos Ambrose becomes the 5th first time winner in 2011 and the 182nd driver to win a Sprint Cup Series race. Ambrose finally wins at Watkins Glen after finishing in the top 3 in his first 3 starts there, and now has a 2.2 average finish in 4 career starts there. It's Ambrose's 20th top 10 in 105 career Cup starts. It's the 3rd win for Richard Petty Motorsports (2009-present), first time since Kasey Kahne won at Atlanta in 2009. The 5 first time winners are the most since 2002; the first time winners then were Jimmie Johnson, Ryan Newman, Kurt Busch, Jamie McMurray and Johnny Benson. Since then JJ, Newman and Kurt have combined for 92 wins and 6 championships, Jamie McMurray has 6 career wins including a Daytona 500 and a Brickyard 400, while JB never won again and was out of Cup by 2004 but did pick up a Truck Series championship in 2008. I don't like the odds of this year's group of 1st time winners matching those accomplishments in the future. Brad Keselowski has not only back-to-back top 5's but back-to-back top 2 finishes for the 1st time in his Cup career; he joins Carl Edwards and Kevin Harvick as the only drivers this season to get B2B top 2 finishes. In the last 2 races he's moved up 7 spots from 21st to 14th in the standings. Kyle Busch earned just his 8th career Cup pole (but now has at least 1 pole in 6 of his 7 full seasons of Cup), his first on a road course. After leading the most laps Kyle settled for a 3rd place finish but now he owns the longest active top 10 streak at Watkins Glen with 6 (1 win, 3 top 5's, 5.3 average finish), after finishing 33rd in his 1st career race there back in 2005. Kyle's now leading the standings for the 4th time this season, but he has yet to lead them in back-to-back races. Martin Truex Jr. ended an 0-for-51 top-5-less streak with a 4th place finish. It's also just his 3rd top 5 in the last 108 races. But he does equal his total top 10's from 2011 with his 7th of the season. It's his 3rd finish of 6th or better in 6 career Glen starts. Joey Logano gets his 3rd top 5 and 4th top 10 in the last 7 races, scoring the 7th most points in that stretch. Marcos Ambrose, Brad Keselowski, Martin Truex Jr. and Joey Logano (who all finished in the top 5 in this race) are the only 4 drivers to finish in the top 10 in both road course races this season, with Ambrose the only one with top 5's in both races. Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano each got their 1st 2 top 10's on road courses this year and their 1st career top 5 on a road course in this race. Kevin Harvick gets his first top 10 in the last 5 races, and just his 2nd top 10 in the last 5 Glen races (1 win, 6 top 10's, 12.9 avg fin in 11 career Glen starts). AJ Allmendinger picked up just his 2nd top 10 in the last 10 races (19th most points scored in that stretch) but his 2nd straight top 10 at the Glen (9.0 avg fin in 4 career starts). Jeff Burton FINALLY ended his top 10 drought, which was up to 25 races dating back to last season, with a 9th place finish for his 1st top 10 of 2011. It's just his 5th top 10 in 18 career Glen starts (20.6 avg fin) but his 2nd straight 9th place finish there. Jimmie Johnson has 4 top 10's in the last 5 races, including 3 top 5's, and has scored the 2nd most points in that stretch. It's his 5th top 10 in 10 Glen starts (14.2 avg fin). 95. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon64, you mentioned the first-time winners this year, and you are right about them not matching the accomplishments of the 5 frst-timers in 2002, though you forgot to mention that one of those first-time winners, Johnny Benson, Jr. had already been an ASA champion (1993) and a Busch/Nationwide champion (1995). About this year's group not matching the accomplishments of that 2002 group, you have to consider that one of them, Trevor Bayne, probably won't even have a ride next year, in either the Cup, or even the Nationwide series, and the others prior to Ambrose, Smith, Menard, Ragan, are longshots ever to win again. In fact, Ambrose and Joey Logano are the only active one-time winners that may ever win again. In fact, if Ambrose or Logano isn't the next second-time winner, then the next second-time winner will be someone that hasn't even gotten his first win, or someone that hasn't even raced in Cup before. (Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. possibly?) But with the high number of winners this year, next year's All-Star Race will have a crowded field, even without Bayne and possibly Mark Martin, who might be in the #21 car next year, if he wants to be in a part-time ride. 96. Pk84 posted: 08.15.2011 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "'Good race, good mature interview by Kyle Busch.' It was going well until he blamed the sprinkles on his windshield, nevermind everyone else had to deal with it, too." Nice selective hearing there. He mentioned the sprinkles, thought it might have had something to do with him not being able to stick it into turn 1, then specifically mentioned that since it didn't appear to affect anyone else, it must have been his own fault. Honestly, go back and listen to the interview again before you go tossing garbage like that out there. It's biased BS like that that makes people lose respect for your opinion. 97. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After having failing to finish in the top 10 from his first 3 career poles, Kyle Busch now has finished in the top 3 from each of his other 5 poles. This does not count times he started first due to qualifying being cancelled. 98. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #37 sponsor: Green Stuff Absorbent/Engine Parts Plus #66 sponsor: Motor Racing Outreach 99. A-Frame43 posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, you are the biggest windbag on here. There's a lot of time between now and May 2012...do you have some special inside source that says Bayne isn't running the All-Star Race next year? 100. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talk4Tar - You're correct, it was IndyCar that had the gravel traps removed. 101. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF - "I think we are seeing [Brad K.] break through to the top level." Possibly, and I hope so. But don't forget that heading into Indy David Ragan was 13th in points... Speaking of Ragan, stick a fork in him, he's done. 102. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872- "Frankly, I'm surprised there hasn't been a bad accident at that part of the track [where Ragan hit] before this." Jason Leffler hit in almost exactly the same place in last year's Nationwide race to start off that massive pileup in that event. Myself, I'm waiting, personally, for a car to go flying out of the esses and fall onto the access road after that one North Series car nearly did it a few years back. 103. Anonymous posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A-Frame, He also makes the same points over and over again, like Bayne never taking the lead on a non-RP track and that Bayne most likely won't have a ride next year. 104. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne wasn't having a great run, but he wasn't running terrible, but I think he ran out of gas because in the shot of the G-W-C restart from behind the flagstand you can see Kahne's car on pit road. 105. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A-Frame43, not only do I not think that Bayne will have a ride for next year's All-Star Race, there's a great possibility that he won't have a ride at all, becuase I think that Roush will be forced to release him due to lack of sponsorship. I also think that he's not too happy with his lack of aggression on the race track, though that was to his benefit last week at Watkins Glen. I honestly think Roush wants him to be more aggressive on the track, which may be why he hasn't even tried to get him a sponsor. I think Roush wants to see Bayne more aggressive on the track, and if that doesn't happen soon, he may release him for that reason, as well as lack of sponsorship. Nothing has been said on national TV to that extent, but I suspect that Roush is not happy with Bayne's lack of performance this year, especially compared to his teammates, because even before he got sick, he couldn't (or wouldn't) keep up with his teammates. Remember also that he may very well have to downsize both his Nationwide and Cup Series efforts next year if things remain as they are for Roush, sponsorship-wise. I even read an article that says that Stenhouse may not be completely safe for that very reason, though I seriously doubt that, since Stenhouse is the kind of driver that Roush likes. And remember, car owners have been known to fire drivers that they think were not driving the car to it's fullest, even in the process of winning championships. Remember Tom Sneva in 1978 being fired by Penske? And that was after he won the USAC championship that year. And let's not forget that Dan Wheldon, who has, in the last seven years, won an IndyCar title, won the Indianapolis 500 twice and finished second at Indy twice, and he can't find a ride either, so this problem is not limited to NASCAR. And even if Bayne stays in the #21 car next year, the chances of which I put at 10-20%, they probably wouldn't run the All-Star Race anyway. They weren't planning to this year until the last moment, when sponsorship was found, but Bayne got sick, so they went back to their original plan. And let's also remember that they are planning to cut back even from what they're running this year, and with Mark Martin apparently wanting a part-time ride, as well as his past with Ford, the #21 car would be perfect for him, since the Wood Brothers prefer veteran drivers in their cars anyway. 106. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""Good race, good mature interview by Kyle Busch." It was going well until he blamed the sprinkles on his windshield, nevermind everyone else had to deal with it, too." Seeing as he immediately went on to say "but everybody else made it through fine, so I screwed up", I don't think counting the sprinkles comment against him is quite fair. "I'm a little confused by the race results." "How could the 33 finish 11th when he was involved in the wreck with the 14? Makes no sense." There might be alterations when the official results come out tomorrow morning. I've noticed the unofficial results sometimes* have serious problems dealing with last-lap crashes. * And by 'sometimes' I mean 'almost always'. "This race is a huge slap in the face for WGI and its lack of soft walls." Sensu stricto the Armco barriers -are- soft - they have plenty of give. But agreed. "Marcos never touched Brad" Actually they rubbed fenders pretty good coming out of turn 1, but that wasn't either's fault - that's racin'. "Scott Speed's reason for start and parking" Pretty sure it was legit and he intended to run the full race (same with T.J. Bell). "Denny Hamlin looks the throttle hung on his car" He explicitly said it didn't, but rather something in the left-front suspension broke and screwed up the brakes giving him locked front tires and zero rear brakes - ouch. 107. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And finally: Boris Said left his helmet on while fighting Greg Biffle because, if he took it off, that hair of his would be an insta-kill against his opponent and he wanted to fight fair. ;) 108. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last caution: #51,6,00,36,5 accident turn 2 109. joey2448 posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When was the last time there were FIVE first-time winners in one season? 110. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But I do expect a 23-25 car field for the All-Star Race next year, even if every eligible driver is not in the race, because you got 17 drivers in the race now, and we know that several top drivers, like Clint Bowyer, Dale Earnhardt, Jr,. Greg Biffle, Joey Logano, Jamie McMurray, Juan Montoya, and even Jeff Burton aren't yet in the All-Star Race next year. If all those drivers qualify, and I suspect that they all might by then, that would make 24 right there, and there might be a few more surprises along the way, which would make an even bigger field. In fact, if there was a new record for the size of the field for the All-Star Race next year, I would not be surprised in the least. The current record for the largest field in All-Star Race history is 27, back in 2002. And yes, I do like to repeat points to emphasize them more. I also know that my repeated mentions of Swede Savage's 1973 Indy crash may be getting old, but in light of what happened at the end of today's race with the enormous crashes, I think it needs to be brought up. 111. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey2448, obviously you didn't read post #94, because Talon64 said in that post that there were five first-time winners in 2002. 112. Talon64 posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But who knows when was the last time there were 6. AJ Allmendinger's really the only guy left looking for his 1st career win who has a legitimate chance at getting it this season because the next highest non-winner in points is David Gilliland in 30th. But Gilliland been great at the plate tracks this season and there's still the 2nd Talladega race left... wow there's a realistic chance we could end up with 7 first time winners this year. 113. Talon64 posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) and cjs3872, you're practically harping now about Bayne. We get it, 2012 is looking pretty murky right now for him but you don't need to keep bringing it up nearly every time you post. Especially when there's really been nothing new that's come up to enlighten us to what Bayne's deal is going to be for 2012. I think I'd even prefer it if it wasn't so pessimistic about Bayne not having a ride at all. Between Roush, the Wood Brothers and even RPM there's plenty of opportunity there for Bayne to be driving something. I can't imagine Bayne won't at least be running another 17 or so races for the Wood Brothers next year. 114. DieselDan posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose a longshot to ever win again? You don't know his history of being a 3-time touring car champ from Australia and his long list of wins in some tough races, some being 1000kms long. 115. Spen posted: 08.15.2011 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs : I think Logano will be the next driver to get win #2. Actually, I wouldn't be all that shocked to see him win at Michigan. Gibbs has caught Roush on the intermediate tracks, and Michigan's a high-horsepower track like Pocono, where he had a very good chance of winning. Bayne will have a ride for the all-star race. If nothing else, I'm sure Phil Parsons would enter him to try and make a quick buck. 116. Schroeder51 posted: 08.15.2011 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Boris Said's foot and Greg Biffle's ass may have a meeting in the near future. 117. Brad24 posted: 08.15.2011 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go Marcos! Long time coming and well deserved. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Reutimann's flip the first of 2011? Seems to me that it is. 118. Cooper posted: 08.15.2011 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper's interesting fact of the race: --This is the first race at Watkins Glen to end under caution since 1992. You don't have to look this up because I already did. 119. Mike posted: 08.15.2011 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Talon64: As for other first-time winners this year, don't count out Blaney. He's been good in the plate races too. @Brad24: Reutimann's flip is the first in Cup. Mike Wallace flipped in the Nationwide race at Talladega. 120. The Ost posted: 08.15.2011 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats Marcos! 121. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.15.2011 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes! Finally! So happy to see Marcos Ambrose in victory lane. Can't wait to see it happen again! 122. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michigan entry list is out. 46 cars: -Bayne in the #21 -Stremme in the #30 -Bliss in the #32 -Kvapil back in the #38 -Bell in the #50 123. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For those saying that I'm harping on Trevor Bayne, you may be correct, and if I happen to be wrong, I'll be more than ready to admit that I am wrong. It's just that between sposorships, performance, and the fact that he could get caught in a classic "numbers game", I think he could very well be the odd man out, which is ironic since, at the beginning of the year, I believed Roush was grooming him to be the next driver of the #6 car, possibly as early as next year. In fact, I predicted before this season began that he would be in the #6 car next year. But Roush currently has six drivers, and he may only have five full-time cars between the Nationwide and Cup series next year, if his current sponsorhip situation holds, so at least one of his drivers would have to be left out. So who would be the odd man out? Not Carl Edwards, who has signed an extension in the past couple of weeks. Not Greg Biffle, who signed a three-year extension earlier this year. As much as it would be deserved, probably not David Ragan, who's contract last another three years after this year. Not Matt Kenseth, since he's delivered things that Roush had never had before him, namely a championship and a Daytona 500 win. And not Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., since Roush has had so much invested in him the last three or four years, for which he is finally starting to be rewarded this year. If there's an odd man out, it would unfortuately be Trevor, which would be sad, because he's a good guy. But also, if Roush does, for some reason, have to release him, that would probably also knock him out of the #21 car, since I believe that ride is tied to Roush. And please don't mention Richard Petty Motorsports as a possibility for either Stenhouse or Bayne, because that would be a career death sentence for them. Why do you think that Kasey Kahne was willing to risk not racing in NASCAR this year just to get out of there? Because as long as Richard Petty continues to run things there, that organization will, in my mind, always be in the tank. And by the way, Talon64, the Woods are only going to run, as it stands now, between 13-15 races next year, down from the 18 they're running this year, no matter who the driver is, but the reason I mentioned Mark Martin is because that's the kind of schedule I hear he wants to run. And the Woods would probably skip the All-Star Race, as they intended to do this year, even after Bayne became eligible for it. That is the biggest reason why I said that Bayne wouldn't be in that race. DieselDan, you obviously didn't read the post that I mentioned the possible second-time winners in, because Marcos Ambrose was NOT listed in the longshot group, along with Joey Logano, but the other six were. And Spen, I agree that Joey Logano has the best chance to win among those with just one victory, since he's running as good as anyone at this moment. As for more potential first-time winners this year, Dave Blaney and David Gilliland were mentioned for Talladega, which could very well happen, especially the way this year's going, but let's not count out A.J. Allmendinger at Dover, which is his best track. But that would also tie into my surprises when looking at the possible field for next year's All-Star Race, which, as I mentioned could very well set a record for the largest field in it's history. But the possibility of drivers like Bayne and Stenhouse not having a full-time ride next year, even in the Nationwide Series, makes me wonder if we are going back to the 1970s in one respect. Back in the 1970s, both in NASCAR and Indy Car racing, there were more top-level drivers than there were top-level rides. Back then, drivers like Dick Brooks, Donnie Allison (more than once), Buddy Baker, Pete Hamilton, and Cale Yarborough in NASCAR, and Joe Leonard, Gordon Johncock, Johnny Rutherford, and even Bobby Unser had trouble keeping top rides. But in the 1990s to early 2000s, that situation revered itself. During that period, you had more top-level cars than you had top-level drivers, so much so that you had drivers driving cars they had no business driving. But now, we may be back to where we were in the late-1960's, '70s, and early-'80s, where we again have more top drivers than we have elite cars. Remember not only might the Daytona 500 winner be out of a ride, but a man who, in the last seven years, has won an IndyCar championship, two Indianapolis 500s, and has finished second at Indy two other times, can't get a ride, either, and Buddy Rice, who won the Indianapolis 500 in 2004, hasn't been able to get a ride in the last several years, either. And Cooper, that 1992 race at Watkins Glen finished under caution due to rain, as only 48 of the 90 laps were run. I believe that this race marked the first time that a Cup race at Watkins Glen finished under caution for something other than weather. 124. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe (#108), add the #7 of Robby Gordon to those involved in the big crash in the "S's" on the final lap. 125. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looking at the video, I think Bowyer will probably remain scored ahead of Gordon, because Stewart clobbered the 33 at about the same moment the caution came out for the turn 2 fracas, freezing the field, and Bowyer, despite being hit, managed to maintain speed well enough not to be dropped. cjs - I think Robby managed to sneak through looking at the view from Mark Martin's bumpercam. Lucky sod! Also, Kahne bailed on RPM last year because Gillette was running the team into the ground. They're much better this year now that he's been sent packing, but they're no place for an up-and-coming driver, I'll agree with you there. 126. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Boris Said left his helmet on while fighting Greg Biffle because, if he took it off, that hair of his would be an insta-kill against his opponent and he wanted to fight fair. ;) " lol 127. RLB posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this is Gordon's 394th race led putting 10 behind Dale Earnhardt's modern record of 404 and 8 behind 2nd place Darrell Waltrip's 402. 128. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, I saw the second part of that crash as it happened, as Robby Gordon definately did not make it through unscathed, in fact he got a pretty good piece of both Martin's and Reutimann's cars. A total of six cars were involved in that incident, if you include Boris Said's #51 car, which started it. And can anyone think of a driver that has had a successful Cup career after driving for Petty, because I think the next driver to be successful after leaving Petty will be the first, though I think Kasey Kahne will be that first one, but not until next year. Bobby Hamliton, Sr. did have some success, winning twice after leaving Petty, but his greatest post-Petty success came in the Truck series, where he was a dominant force and a champion before being struck down by cancer around the time that Benny Parsons met the same fate. 129. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Burton's 1st top-10 of the year. 130. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, that's almost impossible to believe, but it's true. And yet, nobody has brought up whether or not he shoudl be replaced next year, the answer to which is an emphatic NO. In fact, I believe that Jeff Burton is THE key reason for RCR's resurgence in recent years. Before he got there in mid-to-late 2004, RCR was a total mess, but they've gotten back on track in recent years, and a big reason for Childress' rebound was Jeff Burton's leadership within the organization. 131. Thomas posted: 08.15.2011 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First off and most importantly, congrats to Ambrose on finally getting his 1st Cup win! #31 DaleSrFanForever: Ideally, if an announcer has a family member in the race they should be removed from the booth crew (at least). Of course, there's no way that will ever happen, but that's my $0.02. Ned Jarrett was the best about it, and his call of the 1993 Daytona 500 was the most unprofessional call of a race I've ever seen (and yes, I know that he apologized to Earnhardt the following week and Sr. essentially shrugged it off). If Ned, the consummate professional that he was most of the time, couldn't handle it, then nobody else is going to be able to. #41: Not only 14th in points, but if you look at the points earned in the 12 races since the changes at Penske after Richmond, Brad is 6th in points. #52 Anonymous: Apparently you didn't watch today's race. The talk was more about Brad's back than his ankle this week. Depending on how his back heals this week, it may not even be a discussion point next weekend. #81 cjs3872: I'll take Ambrose, since he's shown some promise on the ovals. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see Menard, Smith, or Bayne (presuming he has a ride next season) win before Moldy Bread. #91 cjs3872: And considering that Richard Petty won 200 Cup races (granted against fields of far lesser caliber top to bottom than we have today), that seems to be a good approach to take. 132. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Hamilton's greatest Cup success actually came while driving for Petty. During his tenure there(1995-1997), he had three solid years and Kyle Petty had a decent 1997, plus in 1998 John Andretti was one of the most consistent drivers in the summer and had a good year, plus had a pretty good year in 1999. Where Petty went wrong was going back to Dodge in 2001. In 1995-96 they were probably the best Pontiac team and from 1997-1999 they were 2nd to Gibbs in terms of Pontiacs. So I guess my point is that Petty actually was a pretty good team in the mid to late 1990s, but really have been bad ever since 1999. 133. AJ posted: 08.15.2011 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's the record for most nationalities to win a Cup race in a single season? The 2 times that Montoya has won we've obviously had two, but with Ambrose winning this year and Montoya still with some decent tracks ahead of him, there's every chance that we could get to three, from 3 different continents. Imagine if he won next week; it'd tie the number of different nationalities of winners in Formula 1 this season (Vettel from Germany, Alonso from Spain, and Button and Hamilton from the UK). Who'd ever thought that could happen??? 134. 18fan posted: 08.15.2011 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thomas, CBS told Ned to call Dale home, same thing with 1996. Ned did not do that all on his own. 135. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thomas - Ned was actually told by the other folks in the booth to let his emotions out in that 1993 Daytona 500, as I recall - he wasn't going to until told it was OK. 136. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I recall Thomas, Bobby Unser never rooted for his brother Al, Sr. in 1987, or his nephew Al, Jr. in either of his two Indy victories. Sure, he focused a little more on them than many of the other drivers, and he was a little more emotional, especially in his brother's 1987 Indy victory, even to the point of mentioning theat he would be glad to see Al beat his record for being the oldest Indy winner, and he even got choked up in the booth during both the 1987 and 1992 finishes, but I can't ever recall Bobby Unser openly rooting for either his brother or his nephew to win any race. While calling the race, Bobby Unser called them just as if they were another car on the track if I remember right. And 18fan, you are correct abot Petty being a top Pontiac team from 1995-'99, but frankly, that isn't saying very much, since there were as few as five Pontiacs in a Cup race in that period out of a field of as many as 43. And Hamilton did have his greatest Cup success with Petty, winning twice and sitting on the front row at Indy once, among the other things he did there. John Andretti also won a race at Martinsville for Petty and had other close calls. But there seems to be a curse on any driver that leaves his operation. Hamilton was felled by cancer, Jerry Nadeau nearly lost his life the year after he drove some races there, and other drivers, such as Bobby Labonte have never been the same after they left. It is interesting that, of the three drivers that are battling for the Nationwide Series title this year, two of them drove for Petty the last two years, Reed Sorenson and Elliott Sadler. Also, 00andJoe, it was Richard Petty that mismanaged the old Petty Enterprises team to the point to which they had to merge with Ray Evernham and George Gillett just to stay in existence, and for Petty to stay in the sport. In fact, Petty has NEVER been a good car owner. And Thomas, I strongly disagree with you about Logano. He would be my pick to be the next second-time winner, based on how he's run, with Ambrose a close second. The strengths of Menard, Smith, Truex, or Bayne do not lend themselves to winning races, but do lend themselves to finishing races, and Mears is not in a competitve car, and is also a conservative driver, which is something that alan gustavson didn't particularly like about him when they were together, and I seriously doubt that Ragan will ever win again. What this year's first-time winners, with the exception of Ambrose, may wind up being, is an epidemic of one-time flukes (in big races, as well). Ambrose will always have two strong chances to win, as long as NASCAR runs the two road course events, since he will always be a heavy favorite for those, but there's a good chance that none of the other first-time winners will ever win again. 137. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's also interesting that, due to the final lap crash, 16 cars officially failed to finish the race, only four of which did not intend to finish the race. (Nemechek, McDowell, Yeley, Skinner) That means there were plenty of legitimate failures and crashes, including four of the top 20 in points entering the race. (Kurt Busch and Hamlin with crashes caused by brake failures, Menard, who crashed due to a tire failure, Ragan, who was spun by another car) 138. JP88 posted: 08.15.2011 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow what a scary finish...glad Marcos won and the Davids were ok. Not sure what happened with Biffle and Boris before and despite disliking Boris Said after he acted like a baby a couple years back, it looks like Boris was right on this one. And what's the hate with Brad...the guy wins after breaking his ankle on a challenging track and follows it up the week after on probably the toughest track you could go to having an broken ankle and finishes 2nd. 139. Spen posted: 08.15.2011 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs again: "Why do you think that Kasey Kahne was willing to risk not racing in NASCAR this year just to get out of there? Because as long as Richard Petty continues to run things there, that organization will, in my mind, always be in the tank." At the time Kahne left, Petty had nothing to do with the ownership of the team. And while yes, Petty has never been a particularly great owner, I for one don't want to see him step down from the team. He's the only thing linking modern NASCAR to it's first race. It will be a very sad day indeed when Richard Petty is no longer involved in NASCAR. But anyway, I can't see Bayne going there. Petty wouldn't get rid of Allmendinger and Ambrose considering how well they've been running, and expanding to three cars would be a bit much at this point. Maybe in 2014. But Bayne will be long gone by then. You're quite right about there being more good drivers than good cars. And an even bigger problem is that there's very little shake-up among the top cars. Not many opportunities for a driver in a second or third-tier ride like for instance, Reutimann to move up. Actually, I think I can make a reasonable guess as to who exactly will be driving each of the top rides for the next five years, and perhaps even ten. There's more fluxuation for the second-tier rides, but even they're not too difficult to figure. About the only thing we can't predict is who'll be driving start-and-park cars. A season like 1981, where all but two of the major playors changed teams in the off-season will never happen again. By the way, regarding your question last week about who will be the next driver to join the ten-win club, judging from the last few weeks, I'll say Keselowski. I could see him having an inconsistent 5-win season. And I believe that Biffle's posistion at Roush is not as secure as you think. Yeah, he's under contract, but you think that'll stop Roush? I think Biffle will be out after next season, and Stenhouse will be in. 140. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.2011 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd rank Menard as being the most likely to win next, actually. Then Logano, then Ambrose. Menard has been consistent most of the season, and has been steadily improving as a driver. I think Regan Smith might win more, actually, though - remember that he should have won at Talladega a few years back, and the 78 has run pretty good at the plate tracks this year. As for the Hot Seat League, like I said before: stick a fork in David Ragan, he's done. I'm pegging Stenhouse to replace him in the 6 next year, with Bayne spending another year full-time in Nationwide. 141. Matthew Sullivan posted: 08.15.2011 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nobody has mentioned how poorly Robby Gordon ran in this race. If he can't even compete for a top 10 in a road course race, he probably should sell his team and stick to offroad racing. 142. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, you may be right about Petty not having ownership of his team when Kahne left last year, but make no mistake about it, he was still running things, and will continue to as long as he's physically able, or as long as he has the will to. And I totally agree that it will be a sad day when he is forced out of the sport, and the same is true regarding A.J. Foyt in IndyCar racing. After all, it was sad to see Bobby Allison, Bud Moore, and Cale Yarborough being forced out when they were, as the sport needs it's past legends to be involved. But what I'm just saying is that going to RPM is basically a death sentence for any driver, especially an up-and-coming driver, though I agree with you on Petty keeping his current drivers, unless they want to leave, which may be quite possible. As for my question about who would be the next double-digit winner, Keselowski is a good option, but he currently has only three wins, but he may be the next candidate, but even that wouldn't happen until at least 2014, and that's if Penske remains competitve, which as the only Dodge team, may not be very likely. And the thing with the Roush-contracted drivers is that three of the four Cup drivers are signed through at least 2014, with only Matt Kenseth as the exception, so I think Biffle, Edwards, and Ragan will stay through at least 2013. Ragan may be on the thinnest ice among the three, but with the way the organization is currently structured, Ragan is under the least pressure to perform, in my view, though he does need to perform well. His position in points is about where I thought it would be, but I think with his upgrade in performace this year, that he's safe, if sponsorship can be found. If it can't, well anything could happen, as without sponsorship that team could very well be shut down, at least for the start of the 2012 season. And 00andJoe, I disagree with your statement regarding plugging Stenhouse in the #6 Cup car for next year if Ragan is replaced, since that team may be at least temporarily shut down at season's end. The only way that Stenhouse, or anyone else replaces Ragan in the #6 car, if it runs next year, is if Ragan's anvil-like slide continues, or if he continues to make errors, but in addition to the possible closing of the #6 Cup team that Greg Biffle first eluded to at Indianapolis (he never mentioned what specific team would be shut down, but he did mention the possibility of Roush running just three Cup cars next year because of lack of sponsorship, which would probably be the #6 team), I also think Roush may be forced to shut down one of his Nationwide teams due to lack of sponsorship (most likely the #16 team), which would bring on the 6 drivers for 5 cars scenario I mentioned earlier, in which Bayne would most likely be the loser. Remember, Roush shut down the #17 NNS team at the end of last season for the same reason. And Spen, it was at the end of the 1980 season when most of the top drivers, with the exception of Dale Earnhardt and Richard Petty, decided to change rides for 1981. 143. Anonymous posted: 08.15.2011 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Richard Petty was a figure head in 2009 and 2010 at Richard Petty Motorsports. The Gillett Family really was running the show at Richard Petty Motorsports by paying the bills for the race team after Petty Enterprises merged before the Gillett family left Nascar. Kasey Kahne announced he was leaving Richard Petty Motorsports at a team Kasey didn't even know Richard would be gaining control of the team. Kasey announced he was leaving in April 2010 and Richard Petty gained control of the organization in late 2010 and that is my proof of Kasey not knowing Richard would stop being a figure head at time Kasey Kahne was leaving besides George Gillett wasn't looking at selling Richard Petty Motorsports in April 2010. All Kasey Kahne knew at the time he announced he was leaving Richard Petty Motorsports was George Gillett was late paying the bills for Richard Petty Motorsports and possible the employees of Richard Petty Motorsports also. Kahne probably heard about George Gillett having money problems outside of Nascar because sports teams he owned were being sold also. 144. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.2011 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And let's not forget that it's because of Kasey Kahne and Kenny Francis that Roush is running as well as he is this year, because they told Roush what they were running, then Roush put that kind of setup on his cars, then they immediately started running better. And I believe that Kahne wanted to leave Petty even before he learned of the money problems the team was having. And I do think that Petty was running the team, at least the racing side of it. He's not the kind to relegate himself to a figurehead. He has way too much pride for that. It was nice to see his car win at Watkins Glen, even if he wasn't there today. (He was there earlier this race weekend.) 145. irony posted: 08.16.2011 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watkins Glen is one of the few great tracks in Cup and I've been wanting to see Marcos win. Thanks to a DVR fail, and NASCAR's refusal to let "the world's best drivers" race in the rain, I missed it. At least I have Montreal and Bristol to look forward to. 146. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.16.2011 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Irony, don't forget that Marcos has put in some excellent performances at other tracks this year, including Las Vegas, Texas, Dover and Charlotte. 147. irony posted: 08.16.2011 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah I guess I still have Marcos' and Montoya's first oval win to look forward to. I don't expect Allmendinger to win soon. I don't really have a favorite Cup driver so surprise/first time winners are what I hope for. 148. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.16.2011 - 12:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nobody has mentioned how poorly Robby Gordon ran in this race. If he can't even compete for a top 10 in a road course race, he probably should sell his team and stick to offroad racing." Hell, Robby's been so invisible lately that I forgot he was even racing on the Cup level. Even at Sonoma he only managed to finish 18th. You are right about him needing to quit, but I think staying in NASCAR helps him fund his off-road activites easier which is why I think he has stayed. First win for RPM since Kasey Kahne won at Atlanta in September 2009. With Ambrose finally getting his first win, that space on the "needs to win" platform is getting less crowded. This really leaves Allmendinger as one of the only ones left in that category due to his potential and equipment being good enough to win. I can see it happening for sure. 149. 00andJoe posted: 08.16.2011 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Robby's plugging the energy drink company he started with his cars (and I can't help but wonder if the whole bicycle-company-sues-them-over-logo deal wasn't planned somehow, after all it got them plenty of ink didn't it...). 150. 00andJoe posted: 08.16.2011 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, here's an interesting thought: if Busch, Ambrose and Brad had managed to take each other out in turn 1 on that last restart, who knows what might have happened - it wasn't until I watched the highlight-reel tape of the finish that I even saw Mr. Invisible Until The End, Kevin Harvick, making his way up torwards the front... 151. 00andJoe posted: 08.16.2011 - 1:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) - Casey Mears gets his first top 20 since Phoenix. - Andy Lally gets his best finish since Talladega. - Boris Said gets his best finish this year (2 races). - Tommy Baldwin puts Ron Fellows in the 36 car, and where does he finish: right on top of Dave Blaney's average for the year. - Andrew Ranger's first career Cup start. - T.J. Bell gets his best career finish. - Scott Speed ties his best finish this year (3 races). 152. JimBeam posted: 08.16.2011 - 3:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Can't believe that Keselowski nearly had a win fall right into his lap two weeks in a row. First Ambrose spins his tires, then Busch overdrives turn 1. I don't think I would have been able to handle another lucky win and weeks worth of media masturbation about Keselowski's "courage" and "determination" to drive a car with a foot that's apparently so hurt that he can still walk briskly on it to and from his car." "Another Brad hater, anyone else want to join in?" Why yes, I do. But not like that. I just find it humorous that the same people who toss around all sorts of ridiculous things about Kyle Busch, and constantly want to belittle his accomplishments, as well as endlessly deride anything he does or says, are now the same ones getting extremely defensive about anything bad said about Keselowski. Looks like karma is a b**** guys. Get used to it. 153. 00andJoe posted: 08.16.2011 - 4:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner standings by best finishing car: 1. Gibbs, 895 2. Roush, 891 3. Hendrick, 883 4. Childress, 851 5. Penske, 804 6. Stewart-Haas, 760 7. Petty, 716 8. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 678 9. Red Bull, 672 10. MWR, 651 11. Furniture Row, 495 12. JTG-Daughtery, 471 13. Front Row, 413 14. Phoenix, 396 15. Baldwin, 318 16. Germain, 315 17. Stoddard, 305 18. TRG, 287 19. Robby Gordon, 268 20. Wood Brothers, 218 21. Gunselman, 146 22. Whitney, 99 23. HP, 85 24. NEMCO, 83 25. Inception, 40 26. Rusty Wallace, 24 27. Falk, 20 28. Leavine, 14 29. K-Automotive, 9 154. cjs3872 posted: 08.16.2011 - 6:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as how poorly Robby Gordon and Ron Fellows did in this race, the fact that they were both in that last lap crash with Ragan and Reutimann, two guys who are terrible at road courses, should say a lot more than any words we posters, or anyone else could say. And the fact that Boris said caused that crash should say something about how poorly he fared in the race, because he should never have been back there either. And RCRandPenskeGuy, with Ambrose's win, A.J. Allmendinger is no longer one of the guys in that "need to win" category, as far as getting his first win is concerned. He is THE ONLY guy in that "needs to win" category that is seeking his first win. Even drivers like Trevor Bayne and Regan Smith, who nobody gave an "it will be a cold day in hell before they win" chance to win, have won before either Ambrose and Allmendinger have. In fact, if Allmendinger doesn't win, or at least contend to win, he could very well see himself on the hot seat at RPM, which may not be a bad thing for his career. In fact, being fired from RPM might be the best thing that could happen to his career at this point, because it might give him a chance to race with a real race team. RPM may not be the dysfunctional group it was at this time last year, but I still don't see it going anywhere. In fact, it may have already reached it's peak two years ago with Kasey Kahne, when he won two races and made the Chase, only to flame out at it's beginning. I could be wrong about this, but track records being what they are, I don't see RPM, or it's drivers getting much further up than where they are now. I don't think there's any question that Allmendinger is a race-winning driver. His performances at Dover, one of the toughest tracks on the circuit prove that. It's just a question of whether he's with a team that can help him win, and I think that he does not have such a team around him right now, nor in my mind will he have such a team as long as he is with RPM. Remember, the more pit stops in a race there are, the more a team like RPM will be exposed. There are reasons that two of RPM's three wins have come on road courses, and one of which is that you don't make as many pit stops during a road course race, because the road course races are the shortest on the circuit. 155. TheTruth� posted: 08.16.2011 - 6:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "First Ambrose spins his tires, then Busch overdrives turn 1. I don't think I would have been able to handle another lucky win and weeks worth of media masturbation about Keselowski's "courage" and "determination" to drive a car with a foot that's apparently so hurt that he can still walk briskly on it to and from his car." How would it have been lucky if Brad didn't make mistakes that his competitors made? Racing is all about capitilizing on people's mistakes. Brad winning wouldn't have been all that shocking. After all, he passed Kyle Busch for the lead during green but ended up losing it on pit road as JGR's crews are basically the fastest on pit road. I also don't know if you missed it, but the media reported repeatedly that Brad's foot is doing quite better, but he's experiencing a lot of lower back pain. And yes, his foot is pretty hurt, unless you think the pictures of his foot swollen to the size of a softball and totally black and blue were a load of nonsense. And walking briskly? Did you watch any of the broadcasts this weekend at all? Every time a camera would candidly show Brad walking, he'd be moving slow with a noticeable limp. Another week, another anonymous user in denial. 156. Brad24 posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Mike #119: That's what I meant. I knew that Mike Wallace had flipped on the last lap in the NNS race at Talladega. I just didn't remember any Cup cars flipping this year until Reutimann's yesterday. 157. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.16.2011 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Burton's 1st top-10 of the year." Burton has simply been left behind by this sport. With the cars so equal nowadays, and NASCAR's welfare system that keeps 27 cars on the lead lap by the end and late double file restarts, aggression is needed to survive. Burton may be the most conservative driver on the tour. He has never been willing to lay the bumper to anyone, even if they clearly deserve it (watch the last few laps of the '97 Southern 500), and I can't remember him ever making any daring passes. In today's NASCAR, driving like that leaves you with no chance. The same goes for Mark Martin. The days of being able to hang around, never battle until the end, then collect a Top 5 finish or maybe even a win are mostly over. Very rarely does that work anymore (Harvick has been the exception this year). They have been left behind. Truthfully, that has always held both of them back. While they have both spent their careers hanging back, letting the race come to them, drivers like Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon have charged their way to legendary careers, taking advantage of people like Mark and Burton. Mark's conservative under every circumstance style cost him the 1990 Winston Cup as he floundered in 10th place at the Phoenix race on new tires behind much slower cars while Dale charged his way to a dominating win and the points lead. And Burton never had a chance, as his prime coincided with Gordon's. Gordon charged, taking the sport by the throat while Burton hung back. Again, watch the finish of the 1997 Southern 500. Those few laps were a microcasm of those two, and why Gordon owned him so bad. And for a more modern example, watch the end of the 2007 Spring Bristol race (aka The Debut Of NASCAR's Doom, also The Last Race On The Good Bristol Configuration). Between the top 2 finishers, guess who has won the second most races since then and who would only win 3 races since. "Ned Jarrett was the best about it, and his call of the 1993 Daytona 500 was the most unprofessional call of a race I've ever seen (and yes, I know that he apologized to Earnhardt the following week and Sr. essentially shrugged it off)." I disagree about that being unprofessional. Look, I am obviously a huge Earnhardt fan. I remember watching that race and being bitterly disappointed that Dale once again didn't win the Daytona 500 after dominating. But even then, Ned's call was perfectly understandable. His son was about to win the Daytona 500 for just his second career win at the time after spending over a decade struggling to make it to the elite level. As for the conversation the next week, Ned apologized to Dale, to which Dale replied "Don't forget, I'm a Daddy too". He understood. "Nobody has mentioned how poorly Robby Gordon ran in this race. If he can't even compete for a top 10 in a road course race, he probably should sell his team and stick to offroad racing." You are right. For a while he could at least be competitive on the road courses as they put all their effort into those two events. This has backfired as not only has he failed to get a badly needed win for his organization, he is totally out to lunch everywhere else. He is just wasting his own time and money in NASCAR now. It's a shame that one of the most talented racers of this generation will not be remembered by anybody outside the desert racing community. His NASCAR and open wheel stints were both disappointing. Not sure what derailed him in Indy cars, but his NASCAR career was submarined by his intent on being a rebel above all else. What Felix Sabates famously decribed as his "idiot switch" doomed him. It is his life and career, and he has the right to go about both however he chooses, but it is a shame to see SO much talent wasted. Next to get their 2nd win: Right now I would go with Menard because of how strong they are running. were it not for the blown tire, he was gonna have yet another week as RCR's top guy. But RCR doesn't win very often and are notoriously streaky, so he needs to get it done quick. Logano has really stepped it up lately, but he has been on the hot seat with JGR and Home Depot. If they can keep his name in the rumor mill for another month or two, I can see him getting his second win, and first non fluke win. But once he gets secure with his ride again, forget it. 158. Scott B posted: 08.16.2011 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but this race should pretty much be the nail in the coffin for JPM's Chase hopes this year. Even though he finished a respectable 7th, he's missed his best chance to pick up the win needed to even be eligible for a wild card. Or, if I was going to be naughty like Kyle Petty, I'd say the team's chances are up in smoke. ;) 159. cjs3872 posted: 08.16.2011 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, as for your mentioning how Jeff Gordon's charging style early in his career, left Jeff Burton and Mark Martin in the dust. My reply to that is, that he left them in the dust, along with everyone else, too. But he, also, has adopted a much more conservative style in the last decade, something many contribute to Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s fatal crash at the end of the 2001 Daytona 500. Now even Gordon charges only when he has to. But I strongly disagree about how Burton and Martin are not competitve because they're too conservative. They've become non-competitive this year because Father Time appears to have caught up with both of them. Now as for your statement about driving conservative a thing of the past becasue of the double-file restarts, again, I can't disagree more. In fact, conserving your equipment may be more important for that very reason, because the double-file restarts and wave-arounds keep more cars in the running, why run hard during the majority of the race? All you have to do is run hard enough to stay in contention, which these days is just to stay in, or around, the top 10, and then, if there is a late restart, then charge. The changes in race procedure mean that driving conservatively and saving your equipment is more imoportant than ever, if you can stay in the top 8-12. Now your point about Martin and Burton not taking any chances is as accurate as ever, and that has definately taken many wins from both of them, as well as no fewer than three championships from Martin. Those who have viewed this comments page know that I think that, of the one-time winners, the only one I don't think are currently long shots to win again are Marcos Ambrose and Joey Logano. The others, including the other four first time winners this year were all long shots to begin with, with the exception of David Ragan at Daytona, so I make all of them, including Menard, long shots to win again, because of their conservative style, which put them in position to win. Again, I think drivers like Menard, Regan Smith, Trevor Bayne, and Martin Truex, Jr. have styles that allow them to finishing races, but not styles which would result in them winning races. And by the way, kudos to Truex for finally finishing a race without any bad luck striking him, resulting in a well-deserved fourth-place finish. 160. Spen posted: 08.16.2011 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: I read an article last year in which Petty talked about his role at RPM from '09-10. For the most part, he was just standing around in the garage, trying to pretend that he had something to do. It was painful for him, since he really had nothing to say in how the team was run. And the proof in the pudding is the very fact that Kasey Kahne was sponsored by *Budweiser* for those years. Richard made a promise to his dying mother that his cars would *never* carry alchohol sponsorship. He didn't run the Busch Clash/Bud Shootout for years because he'd have had to put a Busch sticker on the car. (That rule no longer applys.) The fact that he had to watch "his" car sponsored by Bud... that had to have been killing him. Anyway, I don't see Allmendinger getting realeased soon. Today's win aside, A.J. has outperformed Marcos for the most part this year. And Robbie Loomis likes him, and he's got a lot of clout over there. I meant to say the start of 1981, or the off-season between '80 and '81. Thanks for clarifying that. 161. Anonymous posted: 08.16.2011 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: I have proof that Richard Petty was a Figurehead at Richard Petty Motorsports when the Gillett Family owned most the team. Here is my proof: http://racingnewsdaily.com/free-agent-to-be-edwards-focused-on-championships/2011/01/27/ Just read of the part of the Article that starts with Petty back in control'not just a figurehead. 162. Anonymous posted: 08.16.2011 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is more proof that Richard Petty was a figurehead when Richard Petty Motorsports was owned by George Gillett. All you need to do is read the articles. http://cupscene.com/blogs2/2011/01/28/petty-back-in-control%E2%80%94not-just-a-figurehead/ http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/6066340/the_king_richard_petty_regains_control.html?cat=14 http://www.yardbarker.com/all_sports/articles/petty_finds_investors_to_save_rpm/3705014 163. cjs3872 posted: 08.16.2011 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, if the Gilletts were freezing Richard Petty out of the running of the team, then shame on them. I know that Petty can't effectively run a team, that was proven for many years before he merged Petty Enterprises with Gillett-Evernham Motorsports, but if Petty, with all his knowledge and prestige, was being frozen out of what was going on, then the Gillett's ownership of the organization was a bigger joke than even I thought it was. And I don't think that A.J. Allmendinger's job is in jeopardy. Not by a long shot, but I do think that his performance is being hindered by being with RPM, though I disagree with your comment that he has outshined Ambrose this year. Actually, the opposite is true. Ambrose has run up front more often than Allmendinger has. Allmendinger has just been a more consistent finisher in the top 15-20 than Ambrose has been this year, thus he's higher in the points standings. Now I read something today on one of racing websites that I visit that says that Ambrose may want to go back to his native Australia in the not-to-distant future to look after his family, so if that happens, it will be intersting to see what happens, though I suspect that nothing will happen on that front for at least a couple of years. And I also think that the situation regarding Petty and alcohol sponsorships may have had to do with his mother, who may have passed away before Petty's car was sponsored by Budweiser, though I'm not sure about that. It wouldn't have made any difference as Kahne's Budweiser sponsorship for his time with RPM came with the merging of the Petty and Evernham organizations anyway. 164. cjs3872 posted: 08.16.2011 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again, I may have been wrong about Petty always being in charge, and if what the other posters said was true about Petty not being involved in the day-to-day operations of the organization, then the Gilletts ownership of RPM, as I mentioned in post #163, was a bigger joke than even I imagined. Petty should not have been in charge, as he has proven to be a failure where that is concerned, but the ownership had no business freezing him out either. 165. Anonymous85 posted: 08.16.2011 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: I think you have bashed the new bristol enough and its getting a little old SO KNOCK IT OFF ALREADY 166. Smokefan05 posted: 08.16.2011 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Robbys downfall is because he is sponsering himself and another thing which i'll get to later. Since Monster Energy left him (why i hae no idea) and Jim Beam left to sponser Kid Rock (again why i have no idea) he hasn't been the same. He did alot better with those 2 sponsers sponsering him then he is being sponsered by himself. Yes he is most likely using NASCAR to pay for his off-roading racing (and even i haven't heard anyting about him racing Dakar or Baja or anything). Robby is 43 years old and for as much racing as he does in a year, i'm going to be suprised if he races another 10 years. I know racing is his life and nothing else really matters to him but like with Jeff Burton and Mark Martin, father time is going to catch up to you. But Robby getting older is also a plus for him, he has slowed down and hasn't been a "punk" like he used to be. Yes he has been a back marker but he has been a nice back marker, not making people lifes miserable. And also the downfall of his team is Conmans default on his payment to him. I understand why Robby hired him but he should have thought twice about hiring Conman because he him being sued FRM. (And i hope for Front Row Joes sake, he doesn't get screwed either). If Robbys team does belly up (which might happen inside of 5 years) the only person who would have a remote chance of hiring Robby for a team is Richard Childeress. Just based on past history. Yes that brigde you say has been burned down but you can't stay mad at someone forever. If no one else is avaliable in the free agent, Richard might bring Robby back. (of course this is a trip fantasy land) Robby i think deserves one more shot in good equipment. An owner would have to take a chance on him tho and talk him out of running his own team. But of course what do i know, i'm just a keyboard quaterback spouting cyber ink. 167. Talon64 posted: 08.16.2011 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In fact, if Allmendinger doesn't win, or at least contend to win, he could very well see himself on the hot seat at RPM, which may not be a bad thing for his career. In fact, being fired from RPM might be the best thing that could happen to his career at this point, because it might give him a chance to race with a real race team." Considering I agree that it's looking there's more good drivers than good rides, that's not a good thing to wish for since there's no guarantee that AJ would even be able to find another ride let alone a better one if he leaves RPM. But in an ideal world, I'd like to see Allmendinger in the 4th JGR car when JGR's finally ready to expand. If JGR doesn't go or isn't able to go with any of their upcoming developmental drivers. 168. Spen posted: 08.16.2011 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) George Gillett is quite possibly the single biggest scumbag to enter NASCAR since Carl Kiekaefer. (I probably misspelled that, and I don't care. That's how low of an opinion I have of him.) But anyway, first Gillett fired Scott Riggs simply because he wanted to have a Canadian driver. With the reduced number of teams from '07-08, Riggs could likely have gotten back in the top-35. Instead, he went for a road ringer with no oval experience. And then fired said ringer before the season was out. He then signed Elliott Sadler to a multi-year contract, and then fired him over the winter when he decided he wanted Allmendinger instead. Or at least, tried to fire him, as ESad sued for his ride. During 2009, he basically told Reed Sorenson that he could either leave the team, or keep driving without pay. Sorenson took the latter option, because he knew he'd never get a ride again if he wasn't on track. Allmendinger didn't get paid for the second half of the year either. He then decided to switch to Ford, basically losing all manufacturer support from Dodge, while Kahne was in the chase. And after Kahne decided he would be leaving, basically all of the team's resources were shifted to Allmendinger, killing off Kahne's chase hopes. Not paying Roush for their cars at the end of the year was just icing on an already comical situation. I'm normally not a fan of drivers who quit their teams mid-season, but I really can't blame Kasey in the slightest for wanting to get out of there. If he had a crystal ball that could tell him that Petty would be able to get enough investors together to buy the team from Gillett, he might have stuck around for this year, instead of floundering in the remains of Team Red Bull. So yes, Petty's not one of the world's great car owners, but he's a major improvement on Gillett. Richard's single biggest problem thoughout his years as an owner is his unwillingness to over-spend. He never really got the concept that you have to spend money to make money. That's a mojor reason why he wasn't competitive in the '80's. He was trying to run an '80's team on a '60's budget. And a couple of his driver choices have been head-scratchers. For the life of me, I can't imagine why he decided to ressurect Rick Wilson's career. It would be like hiring Casey Mears today. And Buckshot Jones... let's not even go there. But anyway, I think Allmendinger's safe there. Yeah, Ambrose has been *flasier*, but he's also been in the wall a lot more. And Petty's one of the few owners who cares about sheet metal bills. He'd appriciate Allmendinger keeping it off the wall, and running fairly well. And while yes, it's a bit of a career dead-end, where could Allmendinger go? At RPM, he's got a secure top-twenty ride, can contend for an occasional win, and if the stars line up perfectly, make the chase. There really isn't anything better availible. RPM's a dead-end, but so are MWR, EGR, TRB, and to a lesser extent, SHR. Aside from Kahne's move to Hendrick (which I applaud Rick for doing) most drivers from these teams will never get anything better. They'll just stay second-tier their whole careers. Roush, Gibbs, Childress and Penske will all look in-house for new drivers, and won't give a thought to guys in 15th place cars. Hendrick's a little harder to predict, but I still think I know who the future drivers of the #24 and #25 will be. Speaking of Penske, you're probably right about Penske going downhill in the long run. But Keselowski seems to be a good "deal-sealer", so he might get that 5-win season I talked about in 2013. By my predictions, that should be an off-year for Roush, Gibbs and Childress, so Penske should be in good shape for what will likely be their "last hurrah". After Dodge pulls out of NASCAR though, they'll be history. 169. Spen posted: 08.16.2011 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smokefan: Maybe Robby lost his sponsors because they got tired of running 30th 34 races a year? I don't think the team will be around past next year. And I can't really see Childress taking him back. He's got the Dillon boys lined up to replace Burton and Harvick. I'm afraid Robby's days as a competitive driver are over, as far as NASCAR is concerned anyway. Speaking of Burton, I don't think this will be his last top-ten of the year. Getting rid of Berrier was the absoulute best thing Childress has done all season. Now perhaps he can start finishing races strong again, instead of being adjusted out of contention. 170. Dion posted: 08.16.2011 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this race just continues the crazy 2011 season. who would have predicted that there would be 5 first time winners and brad keselowski would have 2 wins at this point compared to jj having just 1 and tony stewart and others being shut out of victory lane. This is the best thing for nascar in my opinion, it shows for the first time in a while that it is an even field and anyone can win... 171. cjs3872 posted: 08.16.2011 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, Hendrick doesn't run the #25 any more, so I don't know what team you may be referring to there. I imagine it would be the #88, since that WAS the old #25 team. And why would Childress replace Harvick, unless Havick started a Cup team for KHI, which I don't see happening for at least another 6-10 years. And even if he does, it might be a Dale Earnhardt, Sr.-like situation, where he owns a team, while driving for Childress. If someone eventually joins Burton on RCR's chopping block, it would most likely be Clint Bowyer, not Harvick. And why do you think Penske would be on the way out if and when Dodge leaves? In my opinion, Dodge leaving the sport would be the best thing that could ever happen for Penske's NASCAR operation, because if they fall behind, being the only Dodge team, they have no other team to help them, since they are a lone wolf, like was when he ran the AMC Matadors from 1972-'75, winning five times. I personally think Penske could be running Chevrolets by 2013. Remember, Penske seems to have some kind of back-door relationship with Rick Hendrick. When he finally won the Daytona 500 with Ryan Newman in 2008, after 37 years of off-and-on trying, Penske wore a Hendrick hat in victory lane, and Hendrick sponsored, or at least had a sticker, on two of Penske's three cars in this year's Indianapolis 500. Then there are the rumors that Kasey Kahne might want to run the IndyCar race at Las Vegas. Since Kahne is a future Hendrick Motorsports driver. With the ties that Hendrick and Penske seem to have, if Kahne was to drive in that race, would it be in a fourth Penske car? And remember that Penske had a relationship with Chevrolet from 1988-'93, as they were the name plate on the engines that Penske ran in the Indianapolis 500 during those years, winning three of those six races, though they were not actually Chevrolet engines. And as for Allmendinger, his biggest problem is that he runs his cars way too hard, and wears out his equipment. At least Ambrose has tempered that a little bit, and as a result, Ambrose is the one that most often runs up front late in races. But although Ambrose is the one that finishes up front most often among the two, it is Allmendinger that is highest in points, because he doesn't have as many bad finishes as Ambrose does. I doubt that Petty would release him in the next year or two, but Allmendinger does need to run and finish better, because he, in my estimation, is not doing anywhere near as well as he should, considering the equipment he is driving. If he doesn't at least start finishing in the top 10 more often, I think that he will, at least, start to look over his shoulder, but I don't think he is in immediate jeopardy of losing his ride. 172. Anonymous posted: 08.16.2011 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, You forgot that Kyle Petty played a part in managing Petty Enterprises in terms of hiring and firing drivers. Kyle became the CEO of Petty Enterprises around 1998 to 2000 time period. That meant he was responsible for decisions for Petty Enterprises including hiring and firing drivers. I recalled Richard Petty playing role for bring Petty Enterprises back to Dodge. Kyle fired Jon Andretti. Kyle also at least partly responsible for some of the questionable drivers like Christian Fittipaldi. 173. 1995z71 posted: 08.16.2011 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How did Ron Fellows finish behind Ragan & Reutimann?! He was clipped by the #6 then wrecked so that means he passed both of them! 174. Spen posted: 08.16.2011 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: Yes, I meant the team that is currently the #88. That number is with the team purely for Junior's sake, and when he goes, the #25 should come back. Regardless of that numbers lack of success over the years, it's still the number that Papa Joe Hendrick owned, and I'm sure it still has meaning for Rick. He brought it back for the Winston this year, after all. My comment about Ty Dillon replacing Harvick is not in the near future. Ty's got a lot of years in development driver hell to go through first. But the day will come, when Harvick's in his fourties, that Childress will have an off-year and he'll finally walk. Of course, Bowyer could get fired before that happens, but I don't think so. He seems poised to take over from Jeff as "the voice of reason" on the team. As for Penske, perhaps I shouldn't have said "history", but there days as a competitive force will be over. As a Dodge team, they get top (only actually) priority. While Chevrolet is better overall, as a Chevy team they'd after Hendrick, Childress, Stewart-Haas, and Earnhardt-Ganassi on the priority list. Remember Leo Jackson's old team? They were top dog at Oldsmobile, and Harry Gant was a serious championship contender. They swithed to Chevy in '93, and were now behind RCR, HMS, Morgan-McClure, and DarWal Inc. They simply weren't getting the same support they'd had before, and Harry wound up winless and outside the top ten in points. Then '94 happened, when anything that could possibly go wrong did, and then they spent their time with Robert Pressley being completely irrelevent. It wasn't until Andy Petree bailed them out (and got them an engine deal with Childress) that they got back to being vaguely respectable again. Though still nowhere near championship contention. And that's what would happen to Penske. They'd be in a situation where 20th in points would be a good year. Can you think of any Chevrolet teams since MMM that have been relevent without being involved with either Childress or Hendrick? And even if they do sign an engine deal with say, Hendrick, that would still relegate them to puppet team status. Their fortunes would rise or fall depending on Hendrick's, and they'd never seriously contend with the main Hendrick cars. They'd probably be third fiddle to Stewart-Haas, even. Ford would be a much better option for them, assuming that bridge hasn't burned entirely. Yeah, they'd be second to Roush, but second is better than fifth. Anonymous (Eric?): Thanks for reminding me about Kyle being CEO. That still doesn't excuse Rick Wilson, though. Or Wally Dallenbach. 175. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.16.2011 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone else think the whole Biffle/Said thing is ridiculous? I saw the accident with the #51 and the #6 as a racing incident, just one of those things that happens on the last lap of a race and I don't believe Greg Biffle had any place to instigate a confrontation with Boris. But then Boris Said's comments afterwards are even more immature! What a mess... 176. Talon64 posted: 08.16.2011 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I personally think Penske could be running Chevrolets by 2013." Me too, especially since Penske is going to be a Chevy team in Indycar when the new engines manufacturers come aboard in the next couple seasons. 177. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " saw the accident with the #51 and the #6 as a racing incident" Me too, but this gives a lot of people a chance to get on their high horses since they don't have to face Boris until next June. Yes his comments were over the top (and hilarious). But it is understandable, he just got sucker punched by Biff who then ran and hid. I heard Biff's NASCAR Now interview, and he came off very whiny. "As a Dodge team, they get top (only actually) priority." I agree. I think their deal with Dodge is a good one. Like Kurt said once, if they find a flaw with the Dodges being produced (body or motor), they only have two fleets of cars to fix, while Ford has Roush's 4 cars, RPM's cars, the Wood Brother's cars, and whoever else is running Fords. It just seems like Dodge's situation would be easier to handle. "since Carl Kiekaefer. (I probably misspelled that, and I don't care. That's how low of an opinion I have of him.)" Unfortunately I think you did spell it right. 178. Cooper posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "173. 1995z71 posted: 08.16.11 - 7:47 pm" In a situation where one or more drivers crash on the same lap, they're finishing positions are sorted by the running order of the previous completed lap. For example, if there was a 43 car wreck on lap 2, and no drivers completed lap 2, the finishing order would be the running order after lap 1. "170. Dion posted: 08.16.11 - 5:38 pm" I agree. "165. Anonymous85 posted: 08.16.11 - 2:33 pm" He's right though. "140. 00andJoe posted: 08.15.11 - 11:02 pm" David Ragan is and always will be a mid pack driver. He always relegates himself to the mean. 1 good race, 1 bad race, 2 good races, 2 bad races. "116. Schroeder51 posted: 08.15.11 - 6:21 pm" I'm on Boris Said's side. Greg Biffle will always be "The Bugged Eye Dummy" "99. A-Frame43 posted: 08.15.11 - 5:03 pm" I don't know what a "windbag" is, but I'm guessing it's pretty damn funny. "86. 18fan posted: 08.15.11 - 3:40 pm" Joey Logano isn't tenacious enough. He needs to get up on the wheel and really drive. He's obviously super talented, but he only steps his performance up when he has pressure. Next year, Joey needs to be focused and ready to go. I don't like Joey, so I don't really care about how he performs but he has the ability to win races and he has to show it soon. "52. Anonymous posted: 08.15.11 - 1:11 pm" ....Third in driver rating. That's all I need to say about this race. "37. Rusty posted: 08.15.11 - 12:05 pm" I like this million dollar challenge thing. The Winston Million worked so why can't this. And since no one else has mentioned ESPN at all, I think I need to. ESPN has improved by 200% this year. Everything is just more professional this year. Whether it be the reporting, the leader board, the on-boards, or the commentating, I think this has been ESPN's best year since rejoining the sport. "32. . posted: 08.15.11 - 10:52 am" That move might have single handily ended his chance hopes. He was running okay until he pulled this bonehead move. "136. cjs3872 posted: 08.15.11 - 9:29 pm" My pick is Martin Truex Jr. He's the most talented, and that car has run great all year. They just have bad luck. Martin is also strong on every type of racetrack. 179. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But he, also, has adopted a much more conservative style in the last decade, something many contribute to Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s fatal crash at the end of the 2001 Daytona 500." I don't think Dale's passing affected Jeff on the track. I could never say for sure, but he didn't slow down immediately the way a lot of people around Dale's age did. Plus with all the safety innovations that came about after his death, that reassured a lot of people. I think the biggest thing that held him back is the fact he is just now getting a feel he likes in the COT which he never really had which caused him to lose a bunch of late race restarts because he wasn't comfortable enough with the setup to drive it in deep (his '07 success in that car was due to HMS being light years ahead that year), and his back injury. I compare his '08-'10 years to Dale's '97-'99 years in that they both had injuries hold them back because they couldn't get comfortable in the car. There were also car changes (the infamous 5 and 5 rules for Dale and the aforementioned COT with Jeff) that led to a perfect storm with both of them to have 3 uncompetitive years by their standards. Extending the analogy, this season is a lot like Dale's 2000. The combination of being healed, and a rejuvenating external factor (for Jeff it is getting out of the shop with the 48, for Dale it was June's entry and instant success in Cup) leading to "holy crap, they've still got it, and we need to fear them again" moments. "They've become non-competitive this year because Father Time appears to have caught up with both of them." That may be a contributing factor, but their overall lack of aggressiveness has always hurt both of them. Now there are many times during the race when you need to quite frankly drive like a madman, most notable restarts. And neither has it in them. " In fact, conserving your equipment may be more important for that very reason, because the double-file restarts and wave-arounds keep more cars in the running, why run hard during the majority of the race?" That is an interesting way of looking at it. I just look at it from the standpoint that track position is everything. Pit strategy dictates running order more than ever, but along with that, drivers must be able to not only hold their position during the first few laps after a restart (with a pack of madmen running behind them), but even be able to pick up a spot or two here and there. Once the pack thins out a bit and gets single file, where you are at is pretty much where you will stay. So being aggressive during those first few laps is paramount. It keeps the driver up in track position throughout the race. But I see your point. 180. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "ESPN has improved by 200% this year." They have improved a lot. They still have some things to work on (like the stupid pit studio with Rusty and Brad acting like 6 year olds seeing their first race ever "Wow, those cars are flat flying!"), but putting Allen in the booth has been excellent. Now DJ and Andy can just worry about giving analysis instead of having to cover for Marty "You Are Witnessing History" Reid and his general cluelessness up there, or Doctor Jerry "I Shouldn't Have Perscribed So Much Valium For Myself" Punch who may have been on horse tranquilizers in the booth for all we know. He sets an excellent tone. 181. 18fan posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the problem with the perception of the Said-Biffle incident is that too many people still think Biffle was standing up for Ragan. Boris instigated the whole thing by driving up to Biffle's truck and wanting to fight. Unfortunately the ESPN crew jumped to the conclusion that Greg was standing up for Ragan and for people that didn't watch most of the post race show and hear Said's crew chief's comments, they think the last lap crash and the post race deal are related. To me they both came off extremely whiny. 182. 18fan posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It would help Rusty if he didn't say at some point in the race that every single car in the field at one point is flat flying. Brad Daughtery seems to only want to see crashes and payback. 183. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Or, if I was going to be naughty like Kyle Petty, I'd say the team's chances are up in smoke. ;)" That is incredible. Let's be honest, I don't care, I found that funny. I'm sorry, ok. 184. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.16.2011 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It would help Rusty if he didn't say at some point in the race that every single car in the field at one point is flat flying." You are right. Rusty has about 15 phrases that he uses all the time that annoy the piss out of me. 185. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.16.2011 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You are right. Rusty has about 15 phrases that he uses all the time that annoy the piss out of me. " I can't stand it when he says "right now". Every. Single. Bloody. Time! During the NNS race at IRP, I swear he said "right now" about thirty times in the space of 2 minutes talking about Reed Sorenson and Ricky Stenhouse and the championship points. 186. Anonymous posted: 08.16.2011 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is true that Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Jeff Gordon were business partners off the track including them owning Chase Authentics, but I don't know how Dale's death affected Jeff on the track. It is more easy to picture how Dale's Death affect Jeff Gordon off the track from a business standpoint. There is two things too look at for Jeff Gordon after Dale's death. Jeff went through a messy divorce in 2002 and I am sure it distracted him in those 2 seasons. At the time even Playboy had the women that Jeff had an affair with in one of their issues during that time period for pictures and some type of an article. It really showed in 2002 when he didn't win a points race before race 24. That was so unlike Jeff Gordon at the time. Jeff's Stats in 2002 & 2003 were considered "down seasons" for Jeff at time. Jeff's back wasn't right in 2008 and 2009. Jeff not having a win in 2010 is partly due to Steve Letarte pit calls late in the race besides Jeff's bad late race restarts. One thing started before Dale Earnhardt Sr.'s death with Jeff Gordon was Jeff didn't have a crew chief as good as Ray Evernham and it cost him quite a bit of wins. How aggressive Jeff didn't effect Jeff as much as the crew chief he had before this year after Ray left the 24 team. I thought Robbie Loomis was an underrated chief, but you have to question if Jeff was 100 percent focus for a couple seasons due to a messy divorce and it is questionable what caused Jeff to have an off season in 2005 with him having problems on intermediate tracks. Steve Letarte had problems making the correct late race call and it cost Jeff plenty of races and that has caused fans of Jeff Gordon to call Steve Letarte unpleasant name. 187. 00andJoe posted: 08.16.2011 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How did Ron Fellows finish behind Ragan & Reutimann?! He was clipped by the #6 then wrecked so that means he passed both of them!" Scoring only takes place at the start-finish line. At the end of the last lap those three cars completed (lap 91), Fellows was behind Ragan and Reutimann. 188. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.16.2011 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only way I see Penske Racing changing manufacturers would be if Dodge just decides to pull out of the sport entirely, which could happen. They're on their final leg in NASCAR with Penske being the only team left in Sprint Cup that fields their cars. Hopefully they won't go to Toyota, because if they do they'd likely be behind JGR and even MWR. They could be behind HMS, RCR and even SHR if they go to Chevy (probably be on the same level as EGR), and if they go to Ford they'd be behind RFR for sure but they might have a shot at being on the level of RPM. Basically, I'm pulling for Dodge to be able to hang in there and stay in the sport for the sake of Penske Racing. LOL 189. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.16.2011 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RGM fields Dodges as well, but remember what I said about Robby being invisible? You may as well count Penske as the only Dodge team. 190. cjs3872 posted: 08.16.2011 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, every elite driver that was in the 2001 Daytona 500 drove more conservatively after that race. Jeff Gordon got more conservative, Rusty Wallace admitted many times that he was never the same driver after Dale's death, and the success rates of Bobby Labonte, Dale Jarrett, Mark Martin, and the other stars also plummeted after that. Terry Labonte, who had already become non-competitive, went the entire season without leading even one lap. It's no surprise that there were 19 different winners that year, because the stars of the sport leading up to that year were just not as aggressive due to the fact that Earnhardt, one of the sport's greatest drivers had lost his life, and they realized that if it could happen to him, that it could happen to them. And the more aggressive young-and-coming drivers at the time saw this as an opportunity to pounce, as did two veterans on the comeback trail, Ricky Rudd and Bill Elliott. Rudd scored his first win since 1998, and Elliott scored his first win since 1994 that year, while drivers like Kevin Harvick, Robby Gordon, Ricky Craven, and Michael Waltrip all scored their first victories in 2001. Spen, you mentioned a couple of the hires that Richard Petty made, and you brought up wally Dallenbach, Jr. in 1994. Remember that the Dallenbach famliy already had ties to STP, the team's sponsor at the time. Remember that Wally Dallenbach, Sr. drove the STP car in the 1972 Indianapolis 500 when Art Pollard, the team's regular driver was injured after he qualified for the race, then Andy Granatelli and Pat Patrick called on Dallenbach after Swede Savage had his crash in the 1973 Indianapolis 500 and Dallenbach nearly won the 1975 Indy 500, and did win the 1973 California 500 just two months after Savage died from that contaminated blood transfusion. Then Petty replaced Dallenbach with John Andretti, whose uncle Mario also drove STP sponsored cars from 1969-'71. And again, for those wanting to see good telecasts of races, you should watch the races from the 1970s and '80s, because those races, while not carried live for the most part, put today's broadcasts to shame. I watched and recorded the 1973 Indianapolis 500 a few days ago, and there was some hard-hitting reporting, especially on the part of Dave Diles, who in one interview with Jerry Grant, after Grant was telling him about the oil on the track whic led to Savage's crash in that race, said that Grant was telling him that he (and the rest of the field) was running on an unsafe track. Then Diles went to the front of Joe Leonard's car, which had spun earlier in the race (which ABC cameras didn't catch) and was wiping oil from the front of that car to make his point. You would NEVER see a reporter today even mention the possibility of a race being run on an unsafe track. And Diles admitted to not knowing anything about how the cars ran, but he didn't have to. That wasn't his job. his job was to report on the happenings, and he did in grand style. Then there was the way that Jim McKay handled the enormous crashes in that race, along with the way Chris Economaki and Chris Schenkel handled themselves during the Savage incident (no pun intended), which included the Armando Teran incident in the pits, when he was run over by a firetruck, which was not shown, due to the violent nature of the incident, even mentioning when the race restarted that he had died, and you realize the caliber of commentators that used to report on races, even if auto racing was not their area of expertise, which it wasn't for eveyone I mentioned, except for Chris Economaki, and compare them to today's commentators, and there is no comparison. The commentators from yesteryear were FAR superior to anything the commentators of today can even dream of being. And don't get me started on the lack of passion in today's broadcasts compared to the broadcasts of the '70s and '80s, because the commentators from back then actually seemed to care about the competitors and the competition. The commentators of today just don't seem to have the passion for the sport that their predecessors do, and that is just sad, and the incident at the end of the race Monday, I think proves that point. The commentators didn't seem to have very much emotion calling the incident. how do you think that a Jim McKay or a Ken Squier would have handled that? A lot differently, that's for sure, because they actually seemed to care about what they were covering, and the broadcasters of today just don't seem to have that passion. 191. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.17.2011 - 6:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper: "Windbag" means a person who speaks non-stop without stopping to regain their breath, or "wind." The spelling is Kiekhaefer. Anonymous post 186, part of Jeff's problems is the fact that over half of the schedule is on 1.5 and 2 milers. If you had to choose, the 1.5s and the 2s are also the tracks which take the least talent to go around, which is why one car always leads 60% of the race at every intermediate race. A team needs only be good at those tracks, no matter their drivers skill or lack of skill, and the team will succeed. 192. Scott B posted: 08.17.2011 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll admit, I'm very surprised how well Penske has done this season as the only serious Dodge team (yes, they do supply RGM also). I really thought they'd struggle with that arrangement. I'm still not convinced the Dodge brand is in NASCAR for the long haul, though, once the Fiat/Alfa management settles in... they may just let the current commitments play out, and be content to allow Penske to move on when the time comes. 193. Matt G posted: 08.17.2011 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "ESPN has improved by 200% this year." "They have improved a lot. They still have some things to work on (like the stupid pit studio with Rusty and Brad acting like 6 year olds seeing their first race ever "Wow, those cars are flat flying!"), but putting Allen in the booth has been excellent. Now DJ and Andy can just worry about giving analysis instead of having to cover for Marty "You Are Witnessing History" Reid and his general cluelessness up there, or Doctor Jerry "I Shouldn't Have Perscribed So Much Valium For Myself" Punch who may have been on horse tranquilizers in the booth for all we know. He sets an excellent tone." Allen is awesome. He has a perfect mix of knowledge and passion for the sport and it really shows in his work. The decision to take him out of the booth following the 2004 season (when he worked for NBC) was nothing less than a complete disaster that gave us six years of Bill Webber, Jerry Punch, and Marty Reid. It's so nice to have Allen back - And as you said, he makes Dale and Andy much better as well. The other thing to consider here is that they have only been together for three races; I expect this trio to get even better as we head into the Fall and they start to develop some chemistry. Finally, am I the only one who thought the coverage on Monday was better because of a little addition via subtraction? The "studio" with Nicole, Brad, and Rusty didn't make an appearence at all on the delayed Monday broadcast while Allen did an excellent job of keeping viewers updated on strategy as well as things going on that they couldn't see. Wish we could get broadcasts like this every week. 194. Matt G posted: 08.17.2011 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So..... If you had Greg Biffle's address and Boris Siad's number, would you text him Biffle's address? 195. Smokefan05 posted: 08.17.2011 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Smokefan: Maybe Robby lost his sponsors because they got tired of running 30th 34 races a year? I don't think the team will be around past next year. And I can't really see Childress taking him back. He's got the Dillon boys lined up to replace Burton and Harvick. I'm afraid Robby's days as a competitive driver are over, as far as NASCAR is concerned anyway." Richard is going to do what ever it takes to get his boys up to the Cup level. Maybe hiring Robby full-time isn't the right thing, maybe part-time, split one of the rides with one of the Dillon boys. Now i'm i saying use Robby as a mentor? No, no, no i'm not. I'm saying let Robby show up when he wants to race and have one of the dillon boys fill in for when Robby isn't there. But like i said before, i'm giving RC hiring Robby a "remote" chance. But his days driving for other owners is over. 196. Talon64 posted: 08.17.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you had Greg Biffle's address and Boris Siad's number, would you text him Biffle's address?" I think a lot of fans have already done that. lol Apparently Biffle and Said talked on the phone for about an hour yesterday so now Said won't be stalking Greg Biffle day and night. The whole "come to his house and beat him up" made me imagine Boris hiding behind some bushes across from Biffle's house day and night. "Richard is going to do what ever it takes to get his boys up to the Cup level. Maybe hiring Robby full-time isn't the right thing, maybe part-time, split one of the rides with one of the Dillon boys. Now i'm i saying use Robby as a mentor? No, no, no i'm not. I'm saying let Robby show up when he wants to race and have one of the dillon boys fill in for when Robby isn't there." If Richard wants someone to pair up with Austin or Ty in a Cup car, he has better options than Robby IMO. In fact I'd even take Dave Blaney who also used to drive for RCR. 197. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.17.2011 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You would NEVER see a reporter today even mention the possibility of a race being run on an unsafe track." That is because NASCAR will strong arm them if they do. I agree the reporters back then had more passion for the sport itself and the competitors, while today's reporters are more interested in stirring up as much made for TV fake drama as possible. But NASCAR is responsible for some of the issues being swept under the rug too. "I can't stand it when he says "right now". Every. Single. Bloody. Time! During the NNS race at IRP, I swear he said "right now" about thirty times in the space of 2 minutes talking about Reed Sorenson and Ricky Stenhouse and the championship points." That was hard to listen to. It is just so hard to believe how bad Rusty is in the booth. He seemed like such a layup for TV. He always gave some of the best interviews as a driver. He was direct, thorough without being long winded, and had a cool mix of technical talk and down home charm. I just can't believe how hard it is to listen to him commentate. "Finally, am I the only one who thought the coverage on Monday was better because of a little addition via subtraction? The "studio" with Nicole, Brad, and Rusty didn't make an appearence at all on the delayed Monday broadcast" I agree. I swear, every time I listen to Rusty and Brad, it reminds me of myself the first time I saw a race at Charlotte. It was the Fall race in 1990, and I was just 6 years old. I had been to both races that year at North Wilkesboro, my first two races I ever saw in person, the Fall race was just the week before. Dad, a grocery store manager, got tickets from a vendor the Saturday before the race (I still remember him calling me from work and telling me and how excited I was). Our seats were halfway between the end of the dogleg and Turn 1, basically the fastest part of the track. I had only been to Wilkesboro, and at just 6 years old I thought they were flying there. But the first time they came by under full speed, my tiny mind was blown. Dad still laughs when he remembers me looking at him after that and yelling "Wow Dad, these cars are MOVING!" That is Rusty and Brad every week. "The decision to take him out of the booth following the 2004 season (when he worked for NBC) was nothing less than a complete disaster that gave us six years of Bill Webber, Jerry Punch, and Marty Reid." You ain't kidding! "DSFF, every elite driver that was in the 2001 Daytona 500 drove more conservatively after that race." One thing I noticed at Talladega, the next plate race just two months later, was how much more give and take was used. People didn't cut each other off as bad as they did in the 500. Watching "The Day" on SPEED, one thing that jumped out at me was was how many times Dale cut right across somebody's nose (usually Sterling's) so his drivers could maintain their position. And finally he cut him off again, and it led to his fatal wreck. I think that got a lot of driver's attentions. 198. 00andJoe posted: 08.17.2011 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With regard to Dodge in Cup: don't forget that the 92 car started the year as a Dodge, as well; that would have made them second among Dodge teams(!), and yet they gave up on Dodge and switched to Chevy because Dodge wasn't giving them anything. And this was the Keselowskis who have -ALWAYS- been Dodge people... 199. cjs3872 posted: 08.17.2011 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Jackie Stewart also frquently said "right now". If you watch some of ABC's telecasts from the 1970s, you would notice that. In fact, when A.J. Foyt fell out of the 1976 Daytona 500 shortly after surrendering the lead to Benny Parsons, Stewart said "right now" two or three different times then, so Rusty Wallace is hardly the only commentator to be guilty of uttering that phrase. And as far as the commentators not mentioning that the competitors may be running on an unsafe track, what you said may not be limited to NASCAR, watching the end of the IndyCar race at Loudon, it was obvious to everyone (except Brian Barnhart) that the track was unsafe to race on, but the commentators for that race never mentioned that the track was unsafe to restart the race on, either. And by the way, after he made that comment in 1973 about the drivers running on an unsafe track in his interview with Jerry Grant after Swede Savage's crash, Dave Diles did not cover another Indianapolis 500 until after Tony Hulman's death, not returning to the race broadcast team until 1979, I believe. He became a co-host with Chris Schenkel in 1980, then was the host in 1981 when it was decided that Schnkel would no longer be a part of the team covering the Indianapolis 500, then Diles left after 1981, as Jackie Stewart became the host for the telecasts in 1982-'84. when the race went live for the first time in 1986, Jim McKay became the host, with Jim Lampley taking over the play-by-play duties for two years. But until Brent Musberger in recent years, the Indianapolis 500 telecast did not have many hosts until about 2004-'05, though Jack Whitaker had that role in 1991. 200. Scott B posted: 08.17.2011 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, Yes, that is one of the things that makes me wonder. You'd think they'd at least throw them a little bone, given the history of the Kesolowski family with Dodge. The Dusty Whitney #46/#81 was also a Dodge team till late in the 2010 season, when the went to Chevy, and now to Ford in mid-2011. Granted, neither the #92 or the #46 car is going to change the outcome of the manufacturer's championship, but it would have taken very minimal effort to keep them in the stable. 201. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.17.2011 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess if a commentator is able to actually provide good analysis, such as Jackie, their commentating crutches can be overlooked. Or in the case of Kyle Petty, you can kinda pick at them like I have been doing lately. Another good example: Benny Parsons said "simply" about 50,000 times per race. But he provided excellent commentary, so it never annoyed me. With Rusty, it just grates on me. 202. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.17.2011 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly. It's not the fact that Rusty says "right now" 3,000 times a minute, it's that he has to say "right now" 3,000 times a minute to explain that car 'a' is faster than car 'b' because they're on different pit sequences! 203. irony posted: 08.17.2011 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty says "that's for sure" a little too much. Kyle Petty's imperfections don't bother me, except when he refuses to clear his throat. I can't stand the entire Fox crew for the most part. But nothing is worse than Torry Holt calling a NFL game last year. "When Peyton Hillis was 5 years old... (silence)" Still don't know what Peyton Hillis did when he was 5 years old, but it must of been bad. 204. Smiff_99 posted: 08.17.2011 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WHOA!!! Jayski's reporting that Rockingham is currently putting in SAFER Barriers...........this is incredible! Nashville just gave up 2 Nationwide dates and 2 Truck dates....hmmmm....... 205. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.17.2011 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The statement that people overlook crutches by great commentators is 100% correct. I happen to enjoy Kyle Petty's commentating very much, and I tend to overlook how he says "incredible" about 5,000 times every race. If it is someone like Rusty Wallace (I pulled for him as a driver, but criticism of his commentating career is absolutely warranted) who simply isn't that good of a commentator, it is yet another annoyance for the viewer. 206. 00andJoe posted: 08.17.2011 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) News: Stephen Leicht will be driving Tommy Baldwin's second car at Richmond, with Pepsi Max sponsorship. 207. 00andJoe posted: 08.17.2011 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, on the subject of Robby Gordon, it's a shame what that team has come to. Since Robby Gordon Motorsports can be traced directly back to Alan Kulwicki Racing. 208. Talk4Tar posted: 08.18.2011 - 12:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "News: Stephen Leicht will be driving Tommy Baldwin's second car at Richmond, with Pepsi Max sponsorship." GOOD! Stephen Leicht deserves a full-time ride in NASCAR. The guy can drive, and has always been able to, but never got the shot he deserved after Robert Yates closed down his Nationwide program. 209. Frank posted: 08.18.2011 - 1:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DieselDan @ 114 "You don't know his history of being a 3-time touring car champ from Australia and his long list of wins in some tough races, some being 1000kms long. " You don't know his history even more - he won 2 V8 Supercar titles and never won Bathurst 1000 (but won Sandown 500 km race). *** Haven't read whole discussion still but it seems once again that cjs is really envious to Trevor Bayne. For what else reason he complains so much about his uncertain future and repeats about lack of agression trying to prove that Bayne likely will never win another Cup race? Line where he said that Bayne even will not win NNS race this year if he won't win Iowa also a bizzare. But I understand cjs' feelings - many of my friends also confident that Daytona 500 was a fluke win. Comparing modern NASCAR to IRL in terms of sponsorship is oversizing. Yes, even Cup have problems but way not so big like IRL where even drivers like TK don't get salary for years and need external sponsorship. 210. Spen posted: 08.18.2011 - 5:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) While RGM may be gone after next year, I think I can guess what will hapen to it. I think Tony Stewart will buy the number and owner points from Robby. Then he can field a Cup car for Danica in 2013, using her familier number, and a guarenteed starting spot. Not really the outcome I wanted to see for a number that's been associated with independency since Jim Reed, but there you go. Stephen Leicht's got a ride this week? Even though it's probably gonna be a start-and-park deal, that's better than sitting around with no career at all. Frank: I don't think cjs envies Trevor at all. I think he's concerned about the direction Trevor's career is likely to go (ie: nowhere). So am I, for that matter. And as for Iowa being his last chance to win a Busch race this year, that's just an educated guess based on the kind of tracks he runs well at. There aren't anymore narrow short tracks, or plate tracks, or Darlington-like tracks on the schedule this year. He hasn't shown that he can run with the cup guys on the cookie-cutters, unless it comes down to fuel milage. So I think it's highly unlikely that he'll win a Busch race this year. And since next year, he probably won't have a ride at Roush, or any other competitive team for that matter, the chances of him ever getting a Busch win don't look very good. Which is really a shame, since I like the kid. But I liked Stephen Leicht too, and look where he's gone. 211. Smiff_99 posted: 08.18.2011 - 7:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seriously, people, are my post's showing up or what? ROCKINGHAM WILL PROBABLY BE BACK ON THE (Truck and Nationwide) SCHEDULE NEXT YEAR!!! Seriously, does nobody give a shit? DSFF, I know YOU have something to say about this. Forget debating Robby Gordon's carrer potential, you jackwagons :P There's actually something POSITIVE to discuss. THE ROCK IS (most likely) COMING BACK! 212. Spen posted: 08.18.2011 - 8:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm both excited, and worried. I don't think Rockingham will have high enough attendence figures in the next couple of years for NASCAR to justify keeping it on the schedule. After a year or two, I expect it will go back off the schedule, never to return. On the other hand, I didn't expect us to *ever* have the Rock back, in any way, shape or form, so I can't not be excited to see more racing there, even if it is short-lived. I just wish my current economic situation allowed me to go. I'd love to go back there one last time. 213. cjs3872 posted: 08.18.2011 - 9:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, I do wonder where his career is going, but the situation involing Bayne is a small part of a much bigger problem. remember that Dan Wheldon has, in the last seven years, been one of the most productive IndyCar drivers, especially in the Indianapolis 500, where he has won twice and finsihed second twice, as well win a series championship, and even he can't find a quality ride. Personally, I believe that Roush, by running him the the road course race at Montreal this week when he also has a Cup race at Michigan with the Wood Brothers, considering that he is in 11th place in the points stanings, but nearly two full races behind ninth (Brian Scott) and tenth (Michael annett) in the standings, that he may, in fact, be showcasing him for other potential teams in either the Cup or Nationwide Series, much as Penske did last year with Justin Allgaier when it became obvious that he wasn't going to find sponsorship for him, and was forced to release him as a result. Penske was high on Allgaier, but didn't have the sponsorship to keep him, and he ended up with Turner Motorsports this year, and has one win this year, and should have two. I believe Roush realizes that he may not have the financial backing, or room in his organization, to keep Bayne, but he doesn't want him to go rideless either, so he may be showcasing him for other teams, hoping another team may put him in a quality car full-time in either the Cup or Nationwide Series, because if things stay the same, he probably won't have a full-time ride in either series next year. After all, next year could dawn with the reigning champions of each of the two biggest races, the Daytona 500 (Trevor Bayne) and the Indianapolis 500 (Dan Wheldon) not having full-time rides of any kind next season, and that would be an enormous crime. 214. Spen posted: 08.18.2011 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wheldon's main problem is that he sucks at road courses. With the Indycar schedule being almost fifty-fifty between ovals and road courses, anyone who just specializes in one or the other is useless as far as a full season is concerned. (Unless of course, they're Danica Patrick.) That's probably why Hornish went to NASCAR after all. Had he stayed, he'd be in the same posistion as Wheldon right now. For Bayne, it's mostly that no sponsor in their right mind wants to take a chance on someone who isn't already a big name. And his less-than-flashy style hurts him even more in that regard. 215. cjs3872 posted: 08.18.2011 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I remember Spen, Wheldon did pretty good on road courses when he drove for Michael Andretti. After all, he wouldn't have won a championship if that had not been the case. And Hornish, while not overwhelmingly good on road courses, had won the Indy CAR title not once, but THREE times, so he would not have had any trouble keeping the ride at Penske, or getting another top ride if Penske, who still has him under contract, would have released him. And while I agree that Bayne isn't flashy on the track, in fact he's conservative on the track, how can you not call him a big name driver? Sure, he wasn't when the year started, but winning the Daytona 500 changes that, as does winning the Indianapolis 500, and I think it's a crime that the winners of this year's two biggest events, one of whom won it for a second time, doesn't have a full-time ride somewhere next year. 216. Smokefan05 posted: 08.18.2011 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, on the subject of Robby Gordon, it's a shame what that team has come to. Since Robby Gordon Motorsports can be traced directly back to Alan Kulwicki Racing." While Robby wanted to the D/O route, i know that he wanted to add his name to the people who have been D/O with the #7. "While RGM may be gone after next year, I think I can guess what will hapen to it. I think Tony Stewart will buy the number and owner points from Robby. Then he can field a Cup car for Danica in 2013, using her familier number, and a guarenteed starting spot. Not really the outcome I wanted to see for a number that's been associated with independency since Jim Reed, but there you go." I honestly hope Robby fights tooth and nail for it. His team maybe gone but he'll have rights to the points and number. DON"T GIVE TO HIM ROBBY!!!!!!!!!!!!! "ROCKINGHAM WILL PROBABLY BE BACK ON THE (Truck and Nationwide) SCHEDULE NEXT YEAR!!!" And should we thank for this? Hm? Oh that is right, the most hated man in NASCAR (not named Kyle Busch) and a person who people wish was dead by what "fans" say. 217. 18fan posted: 08.18.2011 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, the first two years Hornish won the IRL title, 2001 and 2002, there were no races on road/street courses either year and his third title in 2006, as well as Wheldon's in 2005, had only 3 races on road/street courses. Also, in 11 career road/street course races, Hornish has a combined 0 wins, 2 top 5s, and 6 top 10s with a best finish of 2nd at Watkins Glen in 2007. Wheldon has 33 career starts on road/street courses with 1 win, 6 top 5s, and 16 top 10s. So those two guys did hold their own but were not as good as they were on ovals. Both kind of like Dale Earnhardt, who was good on road courses but for whatever reason could only win one time. 218. cjs3872 posted: 08.18.2011 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't realize that neither of Hornish's first two titles were achieved without runinng on road courses. I thought the second one did include road courses, and neither was/is as good on road courses as they were on ovals, though if that was the case, why was Pocono Hornish's best NASCAR track, since it races like a road course? My point about Bayne and Wheldon not having full-time rides of any kind next year, however points to one thing, and that is that winning the big events doesn't seem to count for anything anymore. Granted Daytona is a crapshoot these days, but Tony Stewart, Mark Martin, Ryan Newman, Denny Hamlin, Kurt Busch, and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. all had legitimate shots of winning that race, and they all blew it in one way or another, while Bayne kept his cool, watched as the big names all knock themselves out of it, and won the thing. And I know Wheldon's Indy victory this year was just as lucky, if not more lucky, than Bayne's Daytona 500 victory, but even if he had finished second, it would have been Wheldon's fourth Indy finish of either first or second in seven years, and third consecutive second-place finish. And that doesn't count 2006, when he led 144 laps. I just think that winning the premiere events in auto racing should count for something, and if the winners of the biggest races in the sport can't hold their rides, something's very wrong with the sport today. 219. Scott B posted: 08.18.2011 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if Roush & the Wood Bros could let Bayne run some Cup races with Front Row Motorsports in 2012 (in addition to the p/t schedule in the #21), if lack of seat time is a problem. FRM is a Ford team that runs Roush/Yates equipment, and they sometimes need a fill-in driver when one of their regulars has a schedule conflict. The only snag could be sponsor conflicts, but since FRM doesn't have much sponsorship... seems like it would be do-able. That would be similar to Hendrick placing Landon Cassill with the Finch team, but keeping him under contract as a developmental/test driver. For that matter, they could do the same with Ricky Stenhouse to get him a little time in a Cup car (7 races?) without kicking anyone to the curb. 220. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.18.2011 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Seriously, does nobody give a shit? DSFF, I know YOU have something to say about this. Forget debating Robby Gordon's carrer potential, you jackwagons :P There's actually something POSITIVE to discuss." I'm here. I hope like hell it happens. That would be great on a number of levels. First off, the racing there is outstanding. The configuration and surface lends itself to fun races so long as the field is somewhat level (that is a big reason why the ARCA races have been so poorly attended). Second, it will be great to have a historic track back that was a huge part of NASCAR for a LONG time. If this does happen, I am optimistic about attendance. Granted, "optimistic" means a corwd of about 20,000 at most. The track is in the middle of nowhere, there are no sizeable towns anywhere close. Hell, I went to a Metallica concert at the drag strip there once, and we parked in a cow pasture. But I think people will come out for this. I also hope they can get Wilkesboro open again, add some SAFER barriers, and give it a Truck race. Last October, they got about 10,000 people there for a late model Series I have never heard of, a 4 cylinder street stock race, and a modified race with about 10 mods (the highlight). They would really turn heads there. 221. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.18.2011 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's not the fact that Rusty says "right now" 3,000 times a minute, it's that he has to say "right now" 3,000 times a minute to explain that car 'a' is faster than car 'b' because they're on different pit sequences!" Exactly. "Rusty says "that's for sure" a little too much." My buddy and I were gonna have a drinking game for one of the Cup races back in '07 when Rusty was commentating where we would do a shot of Crown every time he said "That's For Sure!". We decided not to since neither of us are alcoholics, our livers probably couldn't handle it. "Kyle Petty's imperfections don't bother me, except when he refuses to clear his throat." I've noticed that too. "But nothing is worse than Torry Holt calling a NFL game last year. "When Peyton Hillis was 5 years old... (silence)" Still don't know what Peyton Hillis did when he was 5 years old, but it must of been bad." HA! That is a problem for those of us that live in markets of NFC teams that aren't national media darlings (basically the NFC East teams), we get the bottom of the barrell announcers. Considering the "top" of that barrell is Joe Buck and Troy Aikman, ugh! And seriously, we need to figure out what Peyton Hillis did at 5 years old. Did he shit himself in front of his friends? Did he call his kindergarden teacher a bitch? Did he break a window on the house of a psychotic ex-military neighbor's house playing baseball, leading to him shooting his family? 222. cjs3872 posted: 08.18.2011 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott B, the problem you mention about running Stenhouse in as many as seven races in a fifth car, which is legal (in fact Hendrick did that a few years ago with Brad Keselowski), is that Roush doesn't even have enough sponsorship to field four Cup cars full-time, or two Nationwide cars full-time, and he would have to find even more sponsorship to run a fifth developmental car, so that would never work. As for Bayne running some races with Front Row Motorsports to get more experience, as bad an idea as running with Richard Petty Motorsports would be for either Bayne or Stenhouse, having Bayne run with Front Row Motorsports would be far worse. Showcasing him for other teams, which it appears that Roush may be beginning to do, even if he winds up with another manufacturer, as Penske did last year for Justin Allgaier, who landed with a Chevrolet team, would be a better idea than having him run for Front Row Motorsports, which would absolutely doom him to failure. At least the Wood Brothers have some backing, more than he's actually getting from Roush. 223. Talon64 posted: 08.18.2011 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As for Bayne running some races with Front Row Motorsports to get more experience, as bad an idea as running with Richard Petty Motorsports would be for either Bayne or Stenhouse, having Bayne run with Front Row Motorsports would be far worse. Showcasing him for other teams, which it appears that Roush may be beginning to do, even if he winds up with another manufacturer, as Penske did last year for Justin Allgaier, who landed with a Chevrolet team, would be a better idea than having him run for Front Row Motorsports, which would absolutely doom him to failure. At least the Wood Brothers have some backing, more than he's actually getting from Roush." But if FRM ends up being his only option then that's better than having no ride at all. And speaking about Landon Cassill, he turned good efforts in S&P rides last season into a full-time Cup ride with James Finch. So Bayne driving for a team that'd likely run the full races would hardly kill his career. Sometimes the most important thing is just to continue to be at the track every week so people don't forget you. 224. cjs3872 posted: 08.18.2011 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Talon64, driving for a team as bad off as Front Row Motorsports will make you disappear, and if he dropped off the radar like that, it probably would kill his career. At least Phoenix Racing, though a start-and-park team last year, had some good qualifying efforts with Landon Cassill, Front Row Motorsports isn't even capable of that. If that was his best option, he'd almost be better off trying to find a ride for the Indianapolis 500. 225. Talon64 posted: 08.18.2011 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But Talon64, driving for a team as bad off as Front Row Motorsports will make you disappear, and if he dropped off the radar like that, it probably would kill his career. At least Phoenix Racing, though a start-and-park team last year, had some good qualifying efforts with Landon Cassill, Front Row Motorsports isn't even capable of that. If that was his best option, he'd almost be better off trying to find a ride for the Indianapolis 500." It isn't even about being on TV, it's just being around the garage to be able to talk with teams. Hanging around is how Cassill got back into a ride, from what I recall. It's easy just to say that if Bayne loses his ride with Roush and/or the Wood Brothers then he's toast. But what you do you think he should do, not take a ride at all? Sometimes you have to take what you can get and if FRM is all that Bayne can get then so be it. David Gilliland's been able to hang around for what seems like forever just based on a single NNS win. There's no way Bayne's going to turn out worse than him. 226. Talk4Tar posted: 08.18.2011 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And should we thank for this? Hm? Oh that is right, the most hated man in NASCAR (not named Kyle Busch) and a person who people wish was dead by what "fans" say." Dover Motorsports for shutting down three tracks in as many seasons and forcing NASCAR to play Bingo with five race dates between the tracks they shuttered. 227. Talon64 posted: 08.18.2011 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) oh and there's also FAS Lane Racing which is a Ford team. Top 35 in owners with pretty good backing and has been able to attract additional sponsors throughout the year. 228. 00andJoe posted: 08.18.2011 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "While Robby wanted to the D/O route, i know that he wanted to add his name to the people who have been D/O with the #7." Not just the number - it's actually the exact same team. AK Racing > Geoff Bodine Racing > Mattei Motorsports > Ultra Motorsports > RGM. "Sometimes the most important thing is just to continue to be at the track every week so people don't forget you." Exactly - and that's why I'm one of the minorty who doesn't think S&P is the second coming of Judas Iscariot. With regards to FRM, don't forget that they -did- finish third in the Daytona 500. FAS Lane: would Roush and Frank Stoddard be able to work together given their history? That aside, that could be a good place for Bayne... 229. cjs3872 posted: 08.18.2011 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The whole point is that if anyone accepts a ride with a team destined for failure, tat driver may not be seen as anything but a failure. 00andJoe mentioned that David Gilliland finished third in the Daytona 500 this year, but he's always been a factor there and at Talladega, no matter what car he's been in, so you can't base it on just that. And Frank Stoddard's FAS Lane Racing is even worse than Front Row Motorsports is. And neither Front Row Motorsports or FAS Lane Racing have much financial backing, despite what others have said. In fact, as far as Ford is concerned, Roush Racing is the ONLY game in town, which is why Trevor Bayne may end up, either with a Chevrolet team, or out of the sport entirely within two to three years, despite his Daytona 500 win, which should carry some clout. And if Bayne does lose his ride with Roush, he is toast, at least for a while in NASCAR. And remember, what I mentioned about him trying to find a ride for thne Indianapolis 500 sounds absurd, but 40 years ago, after not having a ride in NASCAR, Cale Yarborough spent two FULL YEARS driving IndyCars for Gene White as a teammate to Lloyd Ruby, and at about that same time, Donnie Allison drove IndyCars for A.J. Foyt, though not full-time like Yarborough did. But I think a better option for him, if he indeed loses hgis ride with Roush, may be to wait for a Chevrolet team to come up, like Kevin Harvick's team, especially if he thinks Elliott Sadler isn't getting the job done the way he wants, or with Turner Motorsports if one of that team's drivers goes Cup racing next year. After all, Steven Leicht (I hope that was spelled correctly) disappeared for about three years as a result of the debacle with RCR, and he is just now being given another chance with Tommy Baldwin Racing, albeit in the start-and-park #35 car. And he actually did win a Nationwide race in 2007. 230. Anonymous posted: 08.18.2011 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) they just ended a tire test at martinsville, apparently the tires that wore out and produced great racing in march and 31 lead changes in a 263 mile race aren't good enough. 231. cjs3872 posted: 08.18.2011 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, the thing is as far as tires go is that should last for one full fuel run, but they've lasted considerably longer this year, so much so that Ryan Newman won the race at Loudon by only having his left side tires changed once during the entire race. Goodyear has to walk a fine line, because they can't have tires that don't put any rubber down, as was the case at Indy in 2008, as well as the tire they intended to race at Bristol earlier this year, but they also should use tires that wear significantly enough to make the teams change them after a full fuel run. But they can't make them so they won't last a full fuel run, either, because then you would have races like you had at Charlotte in 2005, where the cars went so fast that they actually wore the tires out until one blew, causing a crash that brought out a caution flag. Now one must also allow for situations like Atlanta, where, because the track surface is so worn, that tires need to be changed at every opportunity, as well as situations like at Daytona this year, where because the cars can't go as fast as track would allow, due to safety concerns, especially for the specatators, so as a result, the tires never wore at all. But I do have a problem with the tires lasting so long that you could go an entire race at a place like Loudon changing left sides only once. Now the teams that take a chance, like Matt Kenseth's team did at Dover earlier this year, gambling on a track that does eat tires some that they could change just right sides and still win, I don't really have a problem with, and the same is true with the strategy that Regan Smith's team used to win them the Southern 500, I don't have a problem with that, either, since Carl Edwards and Kasey Kahne were coming with the fresher tires, but just didn't have enough time to catch Smith and win the race. But NASCAR and Goodyear does, in my opinion, need to come up with a tire that basically lasts one full fuel run, and not much longer than that, without putting the safety of it's competitors at risk. 232. irony posted: 08.18.2011 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And should we thank for this? Hm? Oh that is right, the most hated man in NASCAR (not named Kyle Busch) and a person who people wish was dead by what "fans" say." I've never really had any hate for Andy Hillenburg. Didn't know anyone did. But anyways, I'll be at any Truck or NW race held at Rockingham and/or North Wilkesboro. Would love to see an IndyCar race also, but that won't happen. 233. irony posted: 08.18.2011 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And while Rockingham isn't built next to a 4-lane highway like most tracks, Darlington, Pocono, Watkins Glen, and Sonoma aren't either and I'm sure there are more. Rockingham would be a great stop on the way to the beach if scheduled right. As in not in February or October. 234. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.19.2011 - 12:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Seriously, people, are my post's showing up or what? ROCKINGHAM WILL PROBABLY BE BACK ON THE (Truck and Nationwide) SCHEDULE NEXT YEAR!!! Seriously, does nobody give a shit? DSFF, I know YOU have something to say about this. Forget debating Robby Gordon's carrer potential, you jackwagons :P There's actually something POSITIVE to discuss. THE ROCK IS (most likely) COMING BACK!" People are most likely thrilled to hear this, especially me. As a kid, I loved watching races at Rockingham (any series) and only Phoenix has even come close to being worthy of taking over its spots at the beginning and the end of the season. When it comes to Sprint Cup, I think of Phoenix as the new Rockingham (although it isn't quite as good, there is still pretty good racing there) since that's the closest we've gotten so far. If Rockingham comes back and I could get tickets, I WOULD BE THERE!!! "Not just the number - it's actually the exact same team. AK Racing > Geoff Bodine Racing > Mattei Motorsports > Ultra Motorsports > RGM." Never thought of this before. Good observation. Although I don't think anyone thinks of Alan Kulwicki or Geoff Bodine when they see Robby Gordon's car (unless the #7 alone makes you think of them). 235. 00andJoe posted: 08.19.2011 - 3:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Leicht has Pepsi Max sponsorship on the #35 lined up for Richmond, so presumably it'll be more than S&P. Let's not forget that even though sponsors are bizzarely not jumping on the Daytona 500 winner, teams -will-; Derrike Cope leveraged his 1990 win into a number of rides "above his station" as it were. 236. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.19.2011 - 7:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Derrike Cope also won at Dover that year to strengthen his sponsor value. 237. cjs3872 posted: 08.19.2011 - 10:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay 00andJoe, if a company like Pepsi is getting behind the efforts of Leicht and Baldwin, it almost certainly wouldn't be a start-and-park, which would be great news for Baldwin, because it would be the first time since he formed his team from the remains of Bill Davis Racing that he has had anything close to a sponsor of that caliber. Also, NicoRosbergFan, Cope not only won that race at Dover you spoke of, he dominated it, despite running out of fuel about mid-way through that race. Ironically, he did so in a Purolator-sponsored car. Purolator sponsored the Wood Brothers through their glory days, including their Daytona 500 wins in 1972 (A.J. Foyt) and 1976 (David Pearson). the Woods, of course won this year's Daytona 500, so there is more than one parallel between Cope's Daytona 500 win in 1990 and Trevor Bayne's this year. Bayne's Daytona 500 win came with the Wood Brothers and Cope's came with the Wood's old sponsor, Purolator, who nearly left the sport. By the way, the team that Cope won that 1990 Daytona 500 with, began as DiGard Racing, which won the 1982 Daytona 500 and 1983 NASCAR title with Bobby Allison and won numerous races with Buddy Parrott, Cope's crew chief in 1990, calling the shots for Darrell Waltrip. It also carried the #10, with which Greg Sacks won the 1985 Firecracker 400 for DiGard. And irony, you mentioned it would be interesting if Andy Hillenburg brought an IndyCar race to Rockingham, though that probably wouldn't be a good idea. But it wouldn't be the first time that Hillenburg was involved in IndyCar racing. Remember that Hillenburg drove in the 2000 Indianapolis 500, along with two other rookies in that race who are current NASCAR drivers. One was Jason Leffler, who earlier in his career was a protege of the Parnelli Jones family, and had driven Nationwide cars for Joe Gibbs Racing, for whom he would later run in Cup, and the other was, of course, the dominant winner (he led 167 of 200 laps) of that Indianapolis 500, who drives for the same organization as he did then. His name, of course, is Juan Montoya. 238. Matthew Sullivan posted: 08.19.2011 - 10:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You guys are forgetting another one of Rusty's big obsessions he has when he's calling a race, gunplay. Seriously, listen to how many times he says "he's got him in his gunsights" or mentions that a driver has "all chambers loaded". Of course, he won't say it anymore. Another one he likes to say a lot is either a driver is driving his brains or guts out. 239. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.19.2011 - 10:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Irony, you are right about Rockingham being a town that gets passed on the way to Myrtle Beach. 240. 00andJoe posted: 08.19.2011 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting tidbit: Michel Jourdain Jr is practice-and-qualifying Trevor Bayne's NNS car. 241. Trevor Bayne sucks posted: 08.19.2011 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This more proof that Jack Roush wants Trevor Bayne gone. Trevor's crew gave up on him weeks ago and if you don't believe me ask cjs3872. cjs3872 knows everything about Trevor Bayne and his race team. 242. Smokefan05 posted: 08.19.2011 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've never really had any hate for Andy Hillenburg. Didn't know anyone did. But anyways, I'll be at any Truck or NW race held at Rockingham and/or North Wilkesboro. Would love to see an IndyCar race also, but that won't happen." I'm talking about the man who run NASCAR as "most hated man in NASCAR." I'm not repeating his name because you should know who i'm talking about by now. lol "Never thought of this before. Good observation. Although I don't think anyone thinks of Alan Kulwicki or Geoff Bodine when they see Robby Gordon's car (unless the #7 alone makes you think of them)." Everytime i see the #7 i think of Alan, not some much Geoff (i hope i get some browine points DSFF lol) 243. cjs3872 posted: 08.19.2011 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #241, I do not know everything about the #16 NNS team, but this entire situation with sponsorship played out last year, not just with Bayne, but also with Justin Allgaier, both of whom lost their rides due to lack of sponsorship, though ironically, both of them wound up in better situations than they were in last year, especially Bayne, who, I hope DOES wind up back in the #21 next year at the very least, if nothing more comes up for him. In fact, Bayne, along with Austin Dillon are arguably the two most important drivers for the future of NASCAR in the next generation, because both of them represent the historical core area of NASCAR, and I think big things could be ahead of both of them. Remember that the fans in NASCAR's core region, the southeast, have really had nobody to cheer for for a number of years that has been competitve, which is one of the reasons for the sport's wane in popularity, especially in it's home region. Remember that drivers from North Carolina have won TWO Cup races since the beginning of the 2007 season (one each for Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and Brian Vickers), and David Ragan's victory in the Firecraker 400 last month was the first Cup victory for a driver from Georgia since Bill Elliott won the next-to-last race of the 2003 season. Certainly Virginian Denny Hamlin has made up for some of that, but since Hamlin has the charisma of a tape player, he is not someone that NASCAR can biuld it's future around, but Bayne and Dillon most definately are. And yes, I do think Bayne's crew somewhat quit on him at Iowa, and I think the guilty party, whoever it was, got a stern talking to by Roush as a result, because that would put Bayne, as well as those around him, at risk. Not getting a tire fastened tightly once is not a rare occurrence, in fact it happens on almost every round of pit stops to someone, but the same crew not getting the tires tightly fastened three times in a row is what threw up the red flag for me. The next two months will speak volumes about what Bayne's future at Roush holds, especially where sponsorship is concerned. If he can find sponsorship, he is in absolutely no danger, though I believe someone, preferrably in Roush's organization, needs to tell him that he needs to be more aggressive on the track, while still racing intelligently at the same time, which he has shown that he is more than capable of. Meanwhile, Dillon has a built-in future at Richard Childress Racing, since he is the car owner's grandson, along with his brother Ty, who is still several years from being ready at the top level of the sport. 244. JimBeam posted: 08.19.2011 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Remember that the fans in NASCAR's core region, the southeast, have really had nobody to cheer for for a number of years that has been competitve, which is one of the reasons for the sport's wane in popularity, especially in it's home region." Now I think that's just stupid. Not what you said, but the idea that the fans in the southeast have nobody to cheer for because no one "represents" them that is any good. If they have such a problem rooting for any of the myriad of interesting and talented drivers from all over the country that are successful in this sport, then they are the problem, and the problem isn't that there are no good drivers from the southeast. They need to finally come to accept the fact the south lost the civil war, the south is part of the United States, and that we are all American citizens. They don't exist in their own little world, they aren't special, and they aren't living by any different means than the rest of us. Just because there is no dominating "good ole boy" or whatever other played out stereotype that drives their interest in the sport, how does that make the racing any better or worse? Plenty of other fans have had to deal with a lack of drivers from some narrow geographic area around them to root for, and they got along fine. This sport doesn't belong to the South anymore, and it hasn't for a long time. And if they are pissed about having to pick from so many Californians, and Midwesterners, and whatever other carpetbaggers are pissing them off to root for, they can just stop watching for all I care. My interest in racing isn't so shallow that I can only enjoy it if I can look at one particular driver and say, "Shucks, that fella is just like me! Why, we only grew up (anywhere from) 50 to 500 miles apart the same general geographic area of the United States, we must be exactly alike! Now I can actually enjoy this racin' by living vicariously through him! Long live the South!" Wake up, it's 2011, not 1860. 245. cjs3872 posted: 08.19.2011 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JimBeam, I said that the core fans currently have nobody to cheer for that is a contending driver, which is why drivers like Trevor Bayne and the Dillon brothers, particularly Austin, are important for the next generation, since NASCAR has been losing a lot of its core fans. They might help bring them back. Certainly they have drivers to cheer for, but none of them are really contending drivers. The vast majority of fans, like you and me, could care less where a driver is from, but there are those from the core area of the sport who will not support a driver that is not from that region. That is a fact. It is interesting that at several races this year, from what I hear, the driver that gets the closest to the amount of adulation from the crowd that Dale Earnhardt, Jr. gets is, in fact, Trevor Bayne, because a lot of the core fans seem to identify with him, which seems odd, but he seems to be a driver the fan base in the historcial area of the sport wants to see do well because of where he's from. And I agree about your comment about the year, but a lot of the fan base in the core area of the sport want to be able to root for a driver from their area that is actually a contending driver. But not having a driver from the historical center of the sport is hardly the only reason the popularity of the sport seems to be waning. There are many other reasons, as well. Included among them are, dull racing, especially at the mid-size ovals, which I think can be cured with the roof strips to make the air dirtier, so that the cars can draft. The races at tracks like Michigan and Pocono in the 1970s and early 80s were among the best the sport had to offer. Another reason is some of the rules that have been adopted to make it so that more cars can contend, the most controversial of which is the "wave around", which was actually an IndyCar concept. The double-file restarts have also, in my mind, cheapened things by eradicating certain advantages of leading the race, or on some tracks, running in an even-numbered position. For instance, at Loudon, Bristol, Martinsville, or the road courses, you would rather be running third than second, or fifth than second or fourth, etc. Then the are the "phantom debris cautions" that NASCAR throws, many of which are designed to do nothing but tighten up the field. The three GWC attempts have also, in my mind, cheapened things. One was okay, but three, especially at the plate tracks and road courses only contribute to the crash-marred finishes at those tracks. Then there is the ongoing situation where the tires are concerned. The restart rule, saying that you can't change lanes is a joke, also. That should amend that rule to allow changing lanes, if you're not making a third lane, but allow the drivers to move in front of, go fall behind a car any time they so choose. They need to make it so that the tires last one full fuel stop, but not much longer, so that tires become as important as track position is. Now some of the things they've done, such as eliminating racing to yellow flag, closing the pits when a caution comes out to avoid potential scoring controversies, and making it so that the leaders will always Certainly new blood rising will help the sport, it can do nothing but that. But NASCAR has to get things under control as far as the competition side is concerned, or they will lose more fans. 246. cjs3872 posted: 08.19.2011 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I need to rewrite the last paragraph in my last post. "Now some of the things they've done, such as eliminating racing to the yellow flag, closing the pits when a caution comes out to avoid potential scoring controversies, and making it so that the leaders will always get the green flag first are caertainly steps in the right direction. Certainly new blood rising will help the sport, it can do nothing but help that. But NASCAR has to get things under control as far as the competition side is concerned, or they will lose more fans." That's what the last paragraph in my last post should have said. I also want to add the fact that the safety changes they's ve made to the pits, including adding a speed limit, as well as making rules against overshooting the pits and having crews work on cars that are out of the pit box, as well as penalties for out of control tires, are also a big help. Nobody wants to see a tragedy in the pits, like was the case in the 1990 season finale at Atlanta, or what happened to Graham McRae's crew member, Armando Teran in the 1973 Indianapolis 500 happen again. I also predict that, when NASCAR returns to Michigan next year with a repaved track, that you will see restrictor plates. some of the expert commentators have already predicted lap speeds exceeding 200 MPH for practice and qualifying, and under no circumstance would NASCAR ever allow that to happen. Look for restrictor plates at Atlanta when that track is eventually repaved for the same reason. We saw what happened when Brad Keselowski got turned late in last year's spring race at Atlanta, and so did NASCAR, so if speeds reach, or exceed 200 for an entire lap, look for restrictor plates to be used, and if it happens at Michigan, restrictor plates would return to the track where they were first used back in 1970, at the urging of the drivers. 247. irony posted: 08.20.2011 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian France will get more credit when he makes more positive changes than negative ones, which in my view he hasn't. Adding Rockingham back to the schedule is a no brainer. Both Nashville races are gone, both Gateway races, and presumably Montreal could be gone. The trucks will also lose IRP but not go to the Brickyard which is another open date. They won't go back to the Fairgrounds and the other local tracks. How many ISC and SMI dates can you have? 248. cjs3872 posted: 08.20.2011 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Irony, the trucks are not going to the Brickyard next year, but from what I heard, they ARE going there in 2013, and will probably put on a better race there than the Cup and Nationwide cars can, because the trucks will be able to draft, due to their higher roof lines punching a bigger hole in the air. If that is true, which I believe it will be, it will prove my point about NASCAR needing to make changes to the Cup cars to put drafting back into play, most notably with the roof spoilers they used at Daytona and Talladega in 2001, which they still use on the Nationwide cars at those two very tracks today. 249. Anonymous posted: 08.20.2011 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You guessed wrong about the speeds for Charlotte this year and it is going to the same thing with Michigan You are off for Michigan needing a restrictor plate once the track gets repaved. Atlanta 1997 repaved shouldn't be compared to the one Michigan is going to get at all because Michigan isn't getting reconfigured unlike Atlanta did in 1997. Tracks get faster after getting repaved, but not to the degree Atlanta did in 1997. The increase of speed at Atlanta increased by almost 11 MPH from 1st 1997 Atlanta race to 2nd Atlanta race in 1997 was not all caused by it getting repaved. Atlanta was reconfigured in 1997 by having it changed from being oval to a quad oval besides the backstretch and the front stretch being swapped at the time. Your comment about Atlanta needing a restrictor plate once the track gets repaved is could be off for 4 reasons. 1.) The first one is the track is not going to reconfigured unlike 1997. 2.) The only Atlanta cup a race happens on Labor Day weekend. The first cup race Atlanta had after being repaved in 1997 happened in November 1997. That is a big difference in weather despite being a night race on Labor Day, unlike the daytime November 1997 race. 3.) Drivers such as Carl Edwards are pushing for less downforce for the next gen cup car that will cup out in 2013. When the car has less downforce, that means the car isn't going to be as fast because aerodynamics. At the time Atlanta was reconfigured, drivers and teams wanted more downforce and that is no longer the case. 4.) There was no gear rule in 1997. The cup cars have gear rules since around 2005 or 2006. Gear rules actually helped the cars from getting faster on some tracks if the track doesn't get repaved. 250. Anonymous posted: 08.20.2011 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am aware of Michigan got faster this race this year compare to last year, but it is nowhere the track record of 194.232 in 2005. What caused that speed was caused by multiple reasons at the time including the fact the Cot was on the track yet and the gears that were allowed that weekend. 251. cjs3872 posted: 08.20.2011 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Anonymous, let's go back to Daytona in 1978-'79. The pole speed for the Daytona 500 in 1978, the last year before the track was repaved was about 187.5 MPH. The pole speed for the same event in 1979, after the track was repaved, was over 196 MPH, and about 20 cars qualified faster than the 1978 pole speed, and the only thing that changed was the track surface. I think the pole speed may go up 8-12 MPH over this race, which would put it over 200. If NASCAR doesn't use restrictor plates, they WILL be forced to make the cars run a gear that will prevent laps speeds in excess of 200. I do admit I was wrong about the pole speed at Charlotte, but I don't think they qualified under optimum conditions either. And what I said abot the pole speed at Michigan next year exeeding 200 MPH, concerned what the commentators were saying. They believed that the pole speed would top 200. Carl Edwards wants less downforce, because he muscles his car around the track, and less downforce would play to his advantage, as well as those who hustle their cars around the track. I agree that the cars need something to make the air dirtier to increase the effect of drafting, but taking away downforce is not the way to go. If they do that, a year like 1998 may repeat itself, and there wasn't that much good racing that year. 252. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.20.2011 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Everytime i see the #7 i think of Alan, not some much Geoff (i hope i get some browine points DSFF lol)" Lol. Brownie points to you. 253. Ryan posted: 08.21.2011 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nice selective hearing there. He mentioned the sprinkles, thought it might have had something to do with him not being able to stick it into turn 1, then specifically mentioned that since it didn't appear to affect anyone else, it must have been his own fault. Honestly, go back and listen to the interview again before you go tossing garbage like that out there. It's biased BS like that that makes people lose respect for your opinion." It's never plain out I just screwed up or got beat, he has to give an excuse big or little the majority of the time. So take off your M&M ear muffs when he does an interview. "Irony, you are right about Rockingham being a town that gets passed on the way to Myrtle Beach." Yeah, my family has stopped there and Darlington both on the way to Myrtle a few times. I love driving on US 1 through there around the NC/SC border... Beautiful 254. the_man posted: 09.06.2011 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on a 28th place finish: "It's just a product of close quarters racing at the end. Our UPS team had done a good job. We were going to salvage a top-20 finish I think after running out of fuel earlier in the race. I felt like I had a good run; I felt like I had Boris (Said) clear and I think he got a little better run that we did and he just hooked us. He certainly could have given a little more of a break and we all could have gotten through there and not torn up anything. But he was aggressive and we were all aggressive. He hooked me and I hit hard." 255. 1995z71 posted: 02.02.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One of the best races of 2011. Also Dave Blaneys only DNQ in 2011. 256. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #35 Dave Blaney Out using fastest 43: #11 Denny Hamlin 257. Robert Nelson posted: 07.12.2012 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Kyle Busch 213 (1st driver to get 200 points) Carl Edwards 177 Matt Kenseth 148 Jeff Burton gets his first top 10 of 2011. 258. chevyfan98 posted: 08.15.2016 - 1:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Todd Parrott accidentally referred to the Sprint Cup series as the NEXTEL Cup Series after this race when congratulating Ambrose. 259. Anonymous posted: 08.05.2018 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First ford win at watkins glen since 1996 260. Trent posted: 05.09.2019 - 9:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2011 was also the first year i started hating on kyle busch prior to 2011 i liked kyle, he was my 2nd favorite 261. Trent posted: 05.09.2019 - 9:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) my first ever nascar cup event. i was 7 lol ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. 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