|| *Comments on the 2011 Irwin Tools Night Race:* View the most recent comment <#207> | Post a comment <#post> 1. KurtBusch22Fan posted: 08.26.2011 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Dale Earnhardt, Jr. will be driving a Chevrolet this race, just like every other race in his career. 2. 18fan posted: 08.26.2011 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know if it was just the track cooling, just the fast cars being at the end, or both, because the last 10 or so cars stepped up the pace a few hundredths, which was a lot in this session. 48th career pole for Newman comes in the same qualifying session in which his teammate Tony Stewart posted by far the slowest time. I think Carl Edwards will be hard to beat tomorrow, along with Kenseth, Newman should be strong, Gordon, I have a sneaking feeling that Mark Martin will have a strong run, plus usual suspects like Kyle, Kevin, Kurt, and Jimmie will be good. Brad Keselowski will probably have another strong run, and Menard ran well in qualifying and in the spring race, so he could have a strong run and maybe leapfrog Denny Hamlin in points. 3. BON GORDON posted: 08.26.2011 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I truely believe Kyle Busch is the man to beat dispite his bad qualifying start. Jeff Gordon qualified better than i thought he would. He just isnt good at Bristol with the new surface and the COT. Maybe he can pull a rabbit out of his hat and get a Top 5. 4. 00andJoe posted: 08.26.2011 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #55 sponsor: Lazy Days RV 5. Schroeder51 posted: 08.26.2011 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I predict the driver starting 23rd wins this race and leads at least half the race. 6. 18fan posted: 08.27.2011 - 3:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kevin Harvick is saying Kyle has been "getting his butt whipped" in Cup, he's and idiot and if he's talking about beating Kyle in Truck races, then he can have all his truck victories that he wants because he only has 1 top 5 and 4 top 10s since he and Kyle came off probation and Kyle has 2 wins, 7 top 5s, and 8 top 10s in the 10 races since the two of them came off probation at the first Pocono race. Kevin's quote, "If he keeps running his mouth he'll get his butt whipped off the track" shows that he is always looking for fights and shows why he never will be a champion. 7. potatosalad48 posted: 08.27.2011 - 4:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know if i'm the only one who noticed, but both the #66 and the #87 had gray stripes on their cars right above the Toyota grille logo. 8. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.27.2011 - 6:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What happened to Tony Stewart? Dead last? 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin Harvick is a complete idiot, and K-Y is a bigger idiot for caring about him. Two of the few drivers in this era capable of winning a championship are more concerned about their stupid ass feud than reaching their potential as drivers. You know who is gonna win this battle between K-Y and Harvick? Jimmie Johnson. Is it any wonder he wins it year after year? K-Y is so much more talented than Harvick, he shouldn't give a rat's ass about anything Harvick does. And if Harvick would use his "world renowned mind game playing ability" towards something like, oh I don't know, winning a Cup championship (a wild idea, I know!), he could. And for the record, Harvick always talks big about "kicking somebody's ass" every year. But does he ever do it? Nope. All talk, no action. I'm calling it right here: Neither K-Y nor Harvick finish in the Top 5 in points this year. They will tangle in the cha$e and cost each other. Here is my predicted Top 5: Johnson 1st, Kenseth 2nd (a prelude to 2012), Gordon 3rd (stays right with JJ through the first 6 cha$e races, then fades towards the end after being collected in the Big One at Dega, allowing Kenseth to grab 2nd), Keselowski a distant 4th (makes big noise in the first 4 cha$e races as he continues to ride this wave of momentum, then has a bad run at Charlotte, blows a RF tire a Martinsville, and is collected in the Big One, possibly causing it, at Dega, followed by a decent ending), and Carl 5th (a non descript cha$e, nothing really good, nothing really bad). Just for the hell of it, my predictions for the rest of the Top 12: Denny 6th (no engine failures, but no speed with those TRD motors, gets collected in a few mid pack wrecks), Kurt Busch 7th (hits the wall a few times trying too hard after being frustrated by his cars, but breaks through at Dega for his first plate win), K-Y 8th (good first two races, but has problems after running excellent for 350 miles at Dover leading to him coming unglued, and taking his anger out on Harvick. No cha$e wins. Again), June 9th (lots of bad runs), Newman 10th (current hot streak fades, will definitely wreck at Dega), Harvick 11th (no speed, and gets wrecked by K-Y at some point), Stewart 12th (a complete meltdown). 10. 18fan posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A lot of how Jimmie has won the championships is that he always avoids the big one at 'Dega when his closest pursuers either get caught up in it or cause it and catch themselves in it, so he increases his point lead big time and then can race a little more conservative. In 2008 he went into Talladega ahead of Carl by 10 points, after Talladega(when Carl caused the big one and took out Biffle, who was only 30 points behind JJ), Jimmie was 72 points ahead. In 2009(when they moved it later in the Chase, which really was a bad move), JJ came in 118 points ahead and left 184 points ahead, essentially clinching the championship. Last year he came in 6 points ahead and left 14 ahead. So last year was the only one of the last 3 that Jimmie didn't gain a bunch of points at Talladega. Especially this year when it is harder to make up big point deficits, getting caught up in the Big One at 'Dega will cost any chaser a shot at the championship unless they have a big point lead, which based on how the year has not happened, or are already out of it going in there. I think Talladega either needs to be the chase opener or it needs to be removed from the chase because it's too much of a wild card and, especially with the two car tango crap, now plate racing should not be one of the 10 races that determines the champion. 11. Spen posted: 08.27.2011 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't see Stewart making the chase, period. He's really melting down these last few weeks, and Bowyer will probably get a top five at Richmond. Bowyer's more likely to make the cut, I think. Though like Stewart, he'll be a non-factor. He may finish ahead of Harvick though, simply by not getting into any messes with Busch. Junior will sink to the bottom. I don't see him making the top ten. Newman's been surprising me this year. I could see him finishing in the top eight. I think you've got Hamlin too high, and Kurt a bit low. I don't think it'll be Kyle who wrecks Kevin. I think it will be the other way around. After a couple of lousy runs, Harvick will start thinking "hell, if I can't win it, he damn well won't!" Then he wrecks Kyle, and he'll melt completly after that. 12. Spen posted: 08.27.2011 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, did Landon Cassill finally get axed? 13. Baker posted: 08.27.2011 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know this is by far Stewart's worst track, but what the hell was that? 5 mph off pace and a full second? Did he slide a turn or something or are they just off that badly with top tier equipment? 14. mr x posted: 08.27.2011 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) only 8 days until atlanta, tires actually wear out there 15. 18fan posted: 08.27.2011 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart's car handled worse than any car I think I've ever seen at Bristol. He couldn't get on the gas fast at all and was sideways a majority of the lap. 16. Mr X posted: 08.27.2011 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) thats one fake debris caution tonight, hope the 24 takes the 18 to school tonight 17. Rusty posted: 08.27.2011 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not even 50 laps in and I'm already missing old Bristol. 18. Mr X posted: 08.27.2011 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) are they actually going through the field? nope they stopped at 11th place on the way to commercial, and i also miss the old bristol 19. New 14&88 Fan posted: 08.27.2011 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's gonna be a long night for Smoke, I didn't think that car would be that bad. 20. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On what lap will NASCAR throw the fake caution that will ultimately cost Jeff Gordon the race? Those of you who are disappointed, go to bed before the race is over and just wake up and stick out your tongue at the TV if you don't like the results instead of getting in an uproar. It is good for your health to not get worked up like that. :) 21. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the wrestling topic from the Michigan page, does Raven work for NASCAR and WWE simultaneously? 22. Spen posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After seeing how Bowyer's running, I may have to change my predictions. Keselowski's probably going to be in the top ten by Richmond, so that should get Menard into the chase as a wild card. He'll finish 12th. 23. Mr X posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) dont worry guys, dale jr just got lapped, a fake debris caution is on the way 24. KurtBusch22Fan posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can't watch the race due to not having any of the other channels ABC had told us. So sick and tired about listening about the hurricane. I think by now, everyone should know whats happening. Only update us on the changes, not 24/7 coverage. 25. Rusty posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Can't watch the race due to not having any of the other channels ABC had told us. So sick and tired about listening about the hurricane. I think by now, everyone should know whats happening. Only update us on the changes, not 24/7 coverage." I had the same problem when we got a hurricane back in 2004, fortunatly I only missed a race at Fontana because of it. 26. Ryan posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bristol, the new mini-Dover... *yawn* btw, is it me or does Jr. always seem to get the lucky dog at a Bristol night race? I think he got it three times in this race a few years back when Kenseth won. Seems like he gets it quite often, although tonight it wasn't for a fake caution. 27. Baker posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The way BK is running and Stewart is running it looks like he'll run him down for an out right chase spot in the Top 10 leaving the wild card spot for someone else. I'm watching my favorite drive turning into B Labonte, T Labonte, Bill Elliott right before my eyes. Its a sad sad day for me*shakes head* 28. Mr X posted: 08.27.2011 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) sorry i cant predict the future more accutately, i just work off nascar's trends, which revolve around fake cautions 29. Rusty posted: 08.27.2011 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) These timing zones on pit road....are just...dumb. What is the point of having speeding rules if there is certain spots you can speed? 30. Schroeder51 posted: 08.27.2011 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon, I am disappoint. 31. Baker posted: 08.27.2011 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BK is on FIRE right now. WOW. I still don't like the guy much, but he is on it. Can't say I like a lot of guys in the sport right now either haha. Brad Keselowski is stepping up as a legit threat to dethrone 5 time. 32. Schroeder51 posted: 08.27.2011 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad did burnouts coming up the ramp into victory lane. 33. Anonymous posted: 08.27.2011 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad uses the insane pit road speed system to gain an advantage and win his third race of the year. 34. V12 Matra posted: 08.27.2011 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not the first time this has happened, I can remember when some drivers were complaining back when Jimmie Johnson did this at Martinsville a couple years ago. But yes, Brad likely would have had a top five finish even without it. Great win for the 2 Team and who knows? Perhaps Keselowski will be the main contender against Jimmie Johnson in the chase this year???? 35. New 14&88 Fan posted: 08.27.2011 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At the rate they're going, who's to say the #2 team aren't thinking championship.Of course it's a long shot but I wouldn't bet against 'em.Anyways great to see the Blue Deuce back in victory lane at Bristol and also some much needed good runs for Martin Truex Jr. and Jamie McMurray. Shrub was surprisingly average, even hitting the wall at one point.I look for him to be tough at Atlanta though. 36. Mr X posted: 08.27.2011 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) they need to make those pit road segments smaller so that you cant charge up half of pit road. Speed is a function of time over distance, nascar knows the length of each segment, and figures out how long it should take to cover the distance at the pit road speed, however the segment your pit box is in you spend 12-15 seconds stopped in, as a result you can charge through the segment without breaking the speed limit, the size of the segments at bms allowed kenseth and Bk to charge have way up pit road before the next segment 37. Brad Keselowski posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wild card? We don't need no steenkin' wild card! 38. what the hell bk? posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come on, how the hell did he suddenly become the best driver in nascar? Nothing against him, but damn this is just crazy considering how he ran for a year and a half 39. Baker posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #38 Its called growing pains my man 40. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very happy for Brad. If you would have told me after Richmond that Brad would have 4 top 5s for the ENTIRE SEASON, I would have been like "hell yeah! I'll take it!". To have 4 in a row, 2 being wins, just amazing. Btw, did anyone notice Brad hobbling a bit after jumping straight off the roof to the ground? He'll feel that tomorrow. The way he jumped on the roof reminded me of Rusty in '89 when he won the Winston Cup. But Rusty was smart to jump from the roof to the hood THEN to the ground. Cool to see somebody jump on the roof again although I don't think he was supposed to. One other thing: if Brad could have held off Marcos at The Glen, he'd have a plate win, 2 intermediate wins, a road course win, and a short track win. Jeff Gordon officially gets the Dale Earnhardt In 2000 Memorial Holy Shit This Guy Ain't Done Yet Award. JJ is still the favorite, and don't sleep on Matt, but Gordon will have to be reckoned with. Overall though a boring night. And ESPN struggled mightily again. Those 3 in the booth sounded half asleep. I am definitely looking forward to Atlanta. 41. BON GORDON posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two weeks in a row Gordon has the best car and gets screwed. No offense to Brad K but Gordon was the best tonight but track position is most important. I find it rediculous that Kenseth and Keselowski sped on pit road without any penalties. They were clearly speeding. You dont need computers to tell you that. I think that needs to be changed on the pit road at Bristol. 42. Mr X posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) also potentially concerned about bk jumping on the roof in victory lane but congrats to him, i'm a Gordon fan but i'm happy to see anyone other then KB in bristol victory lane, as for the race, it was alright, the 5 car battle for the lead around lap 350 was about the best thing i saw, but still the new bristol is butter knife, the old bristol was a razor blade. the night race at bristol is one of the most hyped up races of the year, but like the all star race earlier this year it was a huge disappointment, this race was completely forgettable, not much happened. if they dont change bristol back to the way it was, they should at least take away the bottom lane, its useless and allows the cars to get too spread out, at the end of a race at bristol every car should have the fenders, quarter panels, bumpers caved in, and donuts on both sides. the only damage on keselowski's car was the dent he made in the roof jumping on it, and good year needs to bring softer tires, truex jr on 2 shouldn't be able to hold back Gordon on 4 that easily, where's tony stewart when you need him. 43. Ryan posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish someone would have bet me Jeff Gordon would have said something about the pit speed in his post-race interview. I could be a rich man. The blue deuce clinches a spot. If he can overtake Stewart and get inside the top 10 would be huge for him and the sport! Adding another title contender is awesome. How can this guy not be the favorite right now they way they are running? I know Jimmie has his tracks coming up in the Chase, but look out... Penske has struck gold, and the 2 running this good puts a lot of pressure on the 22 and Kurt really can't complain any more about how bad his cars are at times. 44. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I meant a plate win, a short track win, a road course win, an intermediate win, and a flat track win. He is only missing the road course which he almost took at the Glen. 45. Matt L posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There were barely any storylines to this race. Jeff Gordon led most of the race except when Kenseth kept speeding past him on pit road. Keselowski sped past all of them and held on to win since nobody could pass. I'm sure this issue will cause lots of controversy this week. Keselowski ran in the top 5 all night with a good car & good driving. Still, he supports the formula to winning this season. It doesn't matter what you do the first 80% of the race as long as you end up on the lead lap the last 20%. Win some free laps, gamble to get out front towards the end & drive away since nobody can pass with these hard Good Year tires. 46. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I missed this race because of my friend's cable program not including ESPN2 (*expletive expletive*), but I got on NASCAR.com and saw that Brad won and was like, "HELL YEAH, THIS GUY IS ON A BLAZING HOT STREAK!" Glad to see it too, Brad is one of those guys that had to learn to struggle at the beginning of his Nationwide career, and even at first in his Cup career (2010, first 9 races of 2011) and is now experiencing the joys of success. Martin Truex Jr impressed me a lot too by finishing second here. Wish he were in better equipment than MWR. 47. Cooper posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This makes no sense. I can't wrap my head around the #2 team. Somebody needs to wake me up. I think I'm in a third dimension. Watching the kid struggle at Keith Coleman, basically with his foot half way out the NASCAR door only to be piloting the #2 Miller Lite Dodge four years later. Unbelievable. 48. Cooper posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And on top of that, winning three races in one season! Somebody pinch me please! 49. The Deuce posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy crap! Keselowski suddenly on fire. I know this will stop at some point but dang. This is definitely what you call breaking into the big time. All the greats do this same type of thing, get hot, go on a run, and start winning races early and possibly in bunches. I bet Keselowski will run top 10 in points all of next year. He's just one of THOSE drivers now, that's how this sport works. 50. StewartSmokesEm posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad definitely deserved a top 3 finish, but what the hell, he stole this win because he sped on pit road. I know it's a loophole, but come on. Those pit road speeds are there for a reason. I would feel better about this race if Keselowski would have just beaten them on the track, rather than possibly endangering the safety of others. Just feels a little cheap, in my opinion. 51. 00andJoe posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I find it rediculous that Kenseth and Keselowski sped on pit road without any penalties. They were clearly speeding. You dont need computers to tell you that. I think that needs to be changed on the pit road at Bristol." It's simply an artifact of the timing system. Since your time in your pit box is counted torwards your average speed for the segment your pit stall is in, if you have a pit stall at the start of a segment you can make up a LOT of time without, technically, speeding - the 17 and 2 were smart enough to figure that out. I do bet Bristol gets smaller pit road timing zones over the winter. 52. . posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I always thought that Brad Keselowski would eventually be good. I never thought it would be this sudden and spectacular. 53. 00andJoe posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #78 sponsor: Furniture Row/Denver Mattress #30 sponsor: Echostar Technologies (spelling error) #46 sponsor: Green Stuff/Engine Parts Plus 54. JJSucks posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now I feel much better about Keselowski being in the Chase, but I still don't like the wildcard system though. 55. Mr X posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, i think that the 24 knew that they could do what the 17 & 2 were doing, but because jeff was had the first pit stall on the backstretch and he ran up front all night, with the small bristol pit road, and the 35mph speed limit, the congestion causes jeff to be done with his stop while others are still entering pit road and getting to their stalls, jeff leaves his box and lands in a mine field avoiding other drivers 56. joey2448 posted: 08.27.2011 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I had to laugh when Allen Bestwick said before the race, "I think we may see the old Bristol tonight." They say that every god damn year. Like what everyone else has said, yea Brad is red-f**king-hot right now. As a Jeff Gordon fan, it was so frustrating to see him battling Truex (on two tires) and lapped cars while Brad was driving away. He had this race won. NASCAR needs to set the pit road speed limit for the entire pit lane, not just segments. The reason for the speed limit is safety. It's not safe if Brad can surge ahead in his segment. ON TO HOT-LANTA!!! 57. Mr X posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) at michigan last week we spent 10.3% of the race under caution 21 of 203 laps at bristol tonight 8.4%, 42 of 500 laps, interesting 58. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn. Just discovered I could have changed the channel to ABC! Damn. 59. murb posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great run for Brad once again. Definitely a darkhorse in the championship battle. 60. TomSizemore posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It really bugs me that the pass for the win happened because a driver was clearly speeding on pit road. There is something just not right about that. Keselowski will win a lot more, but this one feels....wrong. To me what Kenseth and Keselowski were doing felt like cheating. It's no different than exploiting some other part of the rule book to make your car lighter, or run a little faster. It's the like the old days, I guess, but it bothers me. And since a lot of others are talking about it online, I guess I'm not exactly in the minority. I can't stand Jeff Gordon, but he got hosed by a technicality. Good for him for following the rules and not risking the safety of others to steal cheap positions on pit road though. 61. 00andJoe posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This just in: for all but three races the rest of the year, the #7 will be S&Ping barring additional sponsorship. 62. irony posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very JJ like performance by BK. Legitimate title contender. Not smart jumping on the roof, though. Great run by David Starr. If Robby keeps start and parking, he doesn't deserve any #. Just give up the 7 buddy. I am now convinced that I liked the old Bristol better. Give us the old Bristol with slight progressive banking ... only enough that cars hung up on the outside groove don't lose 10 spots like in the past. 63. Red posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) They need to make the progessive banking at this track less extreme, because it's killing the racing. It's almost impossible to make passes in the low groove because the top line has all the momentum. Look at Homestead, that place puts on a great race with progessive banking, because it's not TOO progressive. 18 degrees on the bottom, 20 on top. Perfect. But at Bristol we have triple that, with 24 degrees low and 30 up high. That's way too much. I think if they made it 28-30 the racing would be far better, but unfortunately we're stuck with the current setup for a while. Watching the Truex / Gordon battle was incredibly frustrating, as Jeff was faster but Truex could just keep him pinned down, and they basically ran in formation for 50 laps. Ugh. And softer tires from Goodyear would certainly help matters as well. These rock hard tires have no grip when they get hot, and as a result everyone runs the same speed and no one can pass. I don't want Bristol to be a wreckfest again, I just want good racing, and the current setup does not provide that. 64. Jarrett88fan posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) An interesting scenario for everyone... If Brad gets in the top 10, Hamlin gets the first wildcard, and Stewart or Bowyer don't win before the Chase... Paul Menard will make the Chase with two decent finishes. 65. murb posted: 08.28.2011 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as the "Old Bristol vs New Bristol" thing, I definitely will always love the old version more. But I still do think that the new configuration offers good racing. It's still got a lot of action, and the lap times are still closer than ever. Although I do think post 62 made a good point about the high line having way more momentum. I think it would be even better if that was addressed. Sure it's not the same old bumping and banging Bristol that we all loved in the past, but I still think that the racing at the "New Bristol" is definitely way better than a lot of these other tracks that Nascar goes to (like Fontana). 66. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.28.2011 - 1:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As far as the "Old Bristol vs New Bristol" thing, I definitely will always love the old version more. But I still do think that the new configuration offers good racing." Same here. The side by side battles can be entertaining to watch, which is probably what I like most about the newer Bristol configuration. 67. 00andJoe posted: 08.28.2011 - 1:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The side by side battles can be entertaining to watch" Yes, but they're not -Bristol-. 68. Hal posted: 08.28.2011 - 1:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chalk me up as someone else who didn't like the pit road shenanigans tonight. I got nothing against Keselowski, but I guarantee you if Kyle Busch did that, and won the race over other cars that were clearly better, this board would be on fire with so many complaints it would be ridiculous. 69. RLB posted: 08.28.2011 - 1:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon got his Modern record 282nd Top 5,and yet i'm very dissapointed. 70. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.28.2011 - 1:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Chalk me up as someone else who didn't like the pit road shenanigans tonight. I got nothing against Keselowski, but I guarantee you if Kyle Busch did that, and won the race over other cars that were clearly better, this board would be on fire with so many complaints it would be ridiculous." The speeding thing is nothing new though. It's the very same thing that makes the last pit stall so advantageous - you'll never get caught speeding in it. 71. Talk4Tar posted: 08.28.2011 - 2:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, but they're not -Bristol-." Well then it's a good thing I'm a RACE fan and not just a Bristol fan. If I spent as much money as the people did to go see that race in person and all I saw for 500 laps was single file, only passing when a car got beat up out of the groove racing, I'd feel like I was robbed. I'd actually be willing to pay for a ticket to the new Bristol. But then again, I also don't go to the Demo Derby at the county fair for entertainment either. Old Bristol was better than a Fontana / MIS / Pocono style sleeper race, but New Bristol, in my opinion is one of, if not the best RACEtracks on the Sprint Cup Schedule. And if you disagree, you need to analyse whether or not you love racing or wrecking. Also, you guys remember when some people were saying Brad was gonna get booted from Penske by the end of 2011? 72. KBM18 posted: 08.28.2011 - 2:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The speeding thing is nothing new though. It's the very same thing that makes the last pit stall so advantageous - you'll never get caught speeding in it." Since when did Keselowski or Kenseth have the last pit stall? I agree that it's been done before, but not like we saw at Bristol tonight. It was ridiculous, everyone clearly watched as Gordon gets passed by multiple cars going what appeared to be 20+ mph over the limit down pit road, and it cost him the race. Naturally, Jimmie Johnson didn't see any problem with it since he's been one of it's biggest abusers, but a lot of other drivers did. I don't mind that Keselowski won so much, I think he still could have if he came out third and there was a late caution or the leaders caught traffic at the wrong time, but I really hope that NASCAR does something about those scoring lines at Bristol. I agree with post #67, if this was Kyle Busch, several people on this board (I won't name names), would have been on this board immediately to register their absolute disgust with how the finish played out. But congrats to Keselowski, he's really arrived at the big time. He could still win again this year. 73. Matthew Sullivan posted: 08.28.2011 - 2:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad was able to exploit NASCAR's stupid system of calculating pit road speeds. Good for him, however it's an example of an antiquated system that's passed its time long ago. Speeding in the pits should be speeding in the pits. I have no problem with having a bit of leeway since the drivers judge speed by their tachs, but this timing line system is complete nonsense. We're in the 21st century, the technology is available and can be easily implemented. 74. Matthew Sullivan posted: 08.28.2011 - 2:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I must ask, can anyone give an example of another driver who has turned their season around as big as Keselowski and the #2 team. I cannot think of anyone in history who's gone from running 20th or worse for the first and then flipped things like a switch, winning races and finishing in the top 5. 75. Anonymous posted: 08.28.2011 - 2:59 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Imagine this race from Jeff Gordon's perspective. You've got the best car, and you're driving your ass off with it. Things are looking good for your 85th win, which would officially cement you in third place all time. You're getting older and wins are harder to come by, but this one feels natural just like the old days. Then on a pit stop with 90 or so laps to go, your team gets you out fast, and you're passing your competition on pit road. Things are looking good, you think to yourself. Then all of a sudden, Matt Kenseth goes flying by you. And then Brad Keselowski goes flying by you at nearly double your speed, which is the pit road speed, for several seconds, and cruises out onto the track. Suddenly you are starting behind two cars that clearly broke the rules that you were diligently following, but also other cars that elected to go with 2 tires. Suddenly, the hope for your 85th win, the one that you were sure you had a great shot at getting, is slowly fading away. And a car that, let's face it, cheated, is pulling further and further away from you on a nice open track, as you burn up your tires trying to pass a car that is clearly slower, but is being driven by a driver so desperate for their first good finish in years that they don't yield a single inch. Briefly, you consider pushing them out of the way. That's the way you did it in the old days, but you think better of it. No point. The race is over. The new guy, the guy that's suddenly getting all the breaks like you used to get, all the right cautions (or in this case no caution), the guy that you saw break the rules but get away with it because they exploited an outdated scoring method, that guy is the one celebrating in victory lane instead of you. -- Now wouldn't you be frustrated if you were Jeff Gordon? I know I would be. 76. 18fan posted: 08.28.2011 - 3:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You have to give Matt and Brad credit for knowing where the timing lines were and when to slow down, but Jeff Gordon hit the nail on the head in his post race interview about how it kind of takes away the point of having speed limits if there is only one or two timing lines on the whole frontstretch pit road. There were a lot of guys who you expect to run strong at Bristol that really didn't. Harvick was a nonfactor, so was Mark Martin. Kurt ran towards the front early but sped twice on pit road, Newman was a non factor, Stewart and Bowyer were awful, Kyle wasn't that strong, Edwards was extremely good in practice but couldn't find the handle. However, it wasn't much of a surprise to see the 24, 17, and 48 be the cars to beat all night. The 2 on some runs was better than those three and on some runs wasn't, but he was a factor all night. Those four plus Kyle, if he can avoid confrontation with Harvick and keep his head straight, and maybe Kurt and Carl should be the guys fighting for the championship. I don't think Tony Stewart will make the chase unless both Paul Menard and David Ragan are outside the top 20 in points. Brad is running so much better than Tony week in and week out that I don't think Tony can hold him off. Despite having what is a mediocre year by his standards, the last time Jimmie Johnson had even a share of the points lead leaving the Bristol night race was 2006. He leads the series in average finish and top 10s, he's tied for second in top 5s and he is second in laps led. For all the "What's wrong with the 48" talk, he's having a really good season and by the numbers is having the most consistent season. Although Brad and the 2 team have seemingly the most momentum, I think the guys with the most championship momentum are the 24, 17, and 48, then the 2 and the 18. Here's how I think the chase will play out: 1. Jeff Gordon(They've had arguably the best car in 4 of the last 6 races and Jeff seems extremely motivated to end the Drive for Five.) 2. Jimmie Johnson(Hard to pick against them, but the 24 seems a little bit faster than them at the moment) 3. Matt Kenseth(Not quite as fast as the 24 and 48, but definitely the best of the rest and he'll give the Hendrick teams a run for their money) 4. Kyle Busch(Probably has more speed than the 17, but needs to make his bad finishes better and there is the Harvick factor) 5. Brad Keselowski(Faster than his teammate and Edwards right now, momentum will keep him in contention for a while but he can't keep this pace up) 6. Carl Edwards(Has lost some of the speed from the beginning of the year, plus Roush usually has one killer mechanical failure per chase) 7. Kurt Busch(Will benefit from the #2 car's competitiveness, but his consistency is gone and he is easily frustrated) 8. Ryan Newman(Hasn't been stellar, but has been consistent. Just doesn't have enough speed to make a challenge.) 9. Dale Earnhardt, Jr.(Will get in easily, but poor qualifying and lack of laps led will come back to bite them) 10. Denny Hamlin(How he puts last year behind him will be big, plus major inconsistency plus unknown of TRD engines will keep him from contention) 11. Kevin Harvick(His complaining can't be good for the team, the RCR cars in general are slow right now, the Kyle Busch feud plus crappy pit stops will keep Harvick from making a challenge) 12. Whoever gets either the 10th place points position(I think it will be Brad) or the last wild card will finish last. 77. 18fan posted: 08.28.2011 - 3:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to mention what a great run Jaime McMurray had. I know he finished higher in the Brickyard 400, but he ran top 5 a majority of the night and looked like the Jaime Mac we saw last year. 78. Jeffrey posted: 08.28.2011 - 3:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reply to post #70. Preach it brother! I'm so sick of the complaining about the new "21st Century" Bristol. I guess still having 2 pit lanes qualifies as 21st Century despite older tracks like Martinsville & North Wilkesboro having 1 lane. If you think this track sucks now, go watch There used to be another track that was like that before a race at Salem or Winchester where running the bottom groove can be really tough for passing.There used to be another track that was like that before 1992,Oh I forgot that was HERE IN BRISTOL! If things in NASCAR cause you this much frustration then DON'T WATCH.I'm sure NASCAR would be content with having their sport watched by REAL RACE FANS indtead of the majority that frequent these boards. By the way, I challenge you to call me a "new fan that knows nothing" since I have been a fan for over 20 years. 79. 00andJoe posted: 08.28.2011 - 4:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the racing at "New Bristol" is so much better than it was at "Old Bristol", why do all of Bristol's ads use "Old Bristol" shots and why does Alan Bestwick keep saying "maybe we'll see the old Bristol tonight!"? 80. Ryan posted: 08.28.2011 - 4:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) " must ask, can anyone give an example of another driver who has turned their season around as big as Keselowski and the #2 team. I cannot think of anyone in history who's gone from running 20th or worse for the first and then flipped things like a switch, winning races and finishing in the top 5. " Not from 20th, but Harry Gant had a nice run in the last 9 races of 1991. He went from 10th to 4th in points with 4 wins, two 2nds, and two 4ths. 81. RLB posted: 08.28.2011 - 4:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon dominated the hell out of this race, he had 29 more fastest laps(88)than Jimmie Johnson who had 59. Gordon also came away with the highest driver rating at 133.7 82. Ryan posted: 08.28.2011 - 5:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah Menard, Ragan, and even Ambrose will be rolling the dice these next two weeks. Menard has had some good runs at Atlanta, a win there from him wouldn't be a big surprise. 83. potatosalad48 posted: 08.28.2011 - 5:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, Brad is on a freakin' roll. He IS a threat this year. 84. Mike posted: 08.28.2011 - 5:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm guessing it's not a coincidence that Brad went on this tear as soon as he stepped out of the Nationwide car. Breaking his ankle could end up being the best thing that ever happened to his career. 85. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.28.2011 - 5:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Score in G14's picking contest! 86. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.28.2011 - 5:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff is the only car that can consistently pass all night yet he loses cause NASCAR is conveniently not looking when someone deliberately speeds on pit road. :( 87. myothercarisanM535i posted: 08.28.2011 - 7:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff is the only car that can consistently pass all night yet he loses cause NASCAR is conveniently not looking when someone deliberately speeds on pit road. :(" Except that's not how it happened. NASCAR's system is horribly flawed, but Keselowski never actually broke any rules. He wasn't speeding, full stop. Yes, he was travelling faster than 40mph, but it's based on average speed, not maximum speed. In theory, you could do 200mph on pit road as long as you had been stopped inside a timing loop long enough. 88. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.28.2011 - 8:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The pit road system is definitely broken. Can't fault the guys who take advantage of it though. Actually, this is far from new. If you watch the 1995 First Union 400 at Wilkesboro, Earnhardt has the first pit stall, and after he passed the last timing line (this is when NASCAR would time them with a stopwatch...... or so they claimed) he clearly sped up until he got to his stall. But it still needs to be fixed. I agree that the progression is way too much. 4 degrees from top to bottom on a half mile is way too much. Like somebody said, Homestead is perfect, and it is just 2 degrees on a 1.5 mile. They need to go back to the original configuration with 34 degrees on the bottom, 36 up top, and blacktop. 89. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.28.2011 - 9:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very shocked to see the absolutely horrible runs from Stewart, Bowyer, and Harvick. They all needed a good run. Stewart needed it to maintain 10th in the standings, and without a win, he really needs to run good. Bowyer had a great opportunity to gain on Stewart who is struggling more and more by the week. But he also laid an egg. And Harvick really needs to get some positive momentum if he wants a prayer of the championship which he contended for last year, and looked to be the favorite for for the first 1/3 of this season. But they have been plain slow lately, like Smoke, seemingly losing speed every week. Are we seeing the classic RCR 21st century cycle take its dreaded downturn? It sure looks that way. They all looked like shit tonight. Hell, Bowyer has gone from "I definitely want to stay at RCR" to looking like he is out the door. Also, how about Dinger since he got Greg Erwin? He is running pretty good while Biff is struggling with speed, staying power (Michigan), and nagging issues like bad fuel calculations (The Glen), and loose wheels (this race). Careful what you wish for. I think he will regret dumping Erwin. Finally, David Stremme is a complete loser. On a night when MWR's talented drivers FINALLY have cars that could run in the Top 10 all night and even challenge for Top 5 spots at times (and stay there when given track position), Stremme crowds Reut off Turn 2, gets bumped slightly (Kenseth swiped Kes way harder than that on the first restart, but that is just good hard short track racing), then just dumps Reut on the straightaway. David Stremme is one of the biggest busts ever. Highly touted and very cocky, he has produced nothing anywhere. His career, be it Cup or NWide, has produced nothing worth mentioning. He just needs to be happy he was given that ride. David Stremme, you are a failure. 90. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.28.2011 - 9:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but damn this is just crazy considering how he ran for a year and a half" It is crazy. We can't forget, 2010 was a MISERABLE year for him. Bad Brad was truly BAD Brad. They couldn't do anything right, never gained any speed, and were complete afterthoughts. Even into the first 10 races of this year it looked to be more of the same. After Richmond, even those of us biggest Brad fans were commiserating over the bleakness that was his tenure at Penske, and his future which looked to be quite dim. But since then, just wow! They finished 3rd at Darlington with a 13th place car due to a great pit call. Hell, seeing them run 13th had us fans excited. He made his way into the All Star race, then made up 3 laps after a brake problem in a very short race. He might have won the 600 had Kahne not run out of gas right in front of him. Then he wins Kansas on a fuel mileage run after running Top 7 all day, had 3 non descript runs at Dover, Pocono, and Michigan, then shocks most of us by running great and finishing 10th at Sears Point one year after embarrassing himself badly there. Daytona was Daytona, and Loudon was discouraging. But Kentucky was a great night, he had a strong run at the Brickyard, then broke his ankle. Shit. There goes his momentum! WRONG! He wins Pocono, gets a 2nd at The Glen, 3rd at Michigan with a car he was never all that happy with, now this. The writers of Days of Thunder would scoff at this story. 91. jabber1990 posted: 08.28.2011 - 10:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski hasn't driven the nationwide car in 4 races, now he has 4 consecutive podium finishes, how is his performance gonna be when he goes back to driving in the nationwide car? 92. Red posted: 08.28.2011 - 11:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only comparable in-season turnaround I can think of was Matt Kenseth's 2005 campaign. In the first 14 races, Matt's average finish was a dismal 22.8, and he was mired in 23rd in points. Then, in the last 22 races, his average finished jumped to 10.7, including a dominant Bristol victory where he led 415 laps. He made it all the way up to 8th in points by the start of the chase, a gain of 15 points positions in just 12 races. Loop data makes it even more clear: First 14 races - 78.1 Driver Rating Last 22 races - 103.1 Driver Rating 93. Matthew Sullivan posted: 08.28.2011 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In theory, you could do 200mph on pit road as long as you had been stopped inside a timing loop long enough." Exactly and that's what is wrong with how NASCAR monitors pit road speed. This is an area where the rules are shades of grey when they should be black and white but for whatever reason NASCAR doesn't see fit to modernize things. Drivers taking advantage of the timing lines has always happened since pit speeds were implemented, it's just got more and more prevalent with teams figuring out they can really take advantage of the current situation, especially when passing on the track is so difficult. 94. Watto posted: 08.28.2011 - 11:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Suddenly you are starting behind two cars that clearly broke the rules that you were diligently following" To be fair, what's to say that Gordon was doing the similar thing with gassing it before his stall and/or gassing it big time until the start of the timing line he had to follow? He just had a less advantageous stall. I do think that NASCAR should figure something out when it comes to their pit road systems, but the outrage over this should've happened long ago because many drivers have been doing this since they've been able to. 95. 12345Dude posted: 08.28.2011 - 1:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow has bristol got boring. Who ever owns Bristol is going to regret making the track wider. This was a very boring race. I don't expect that, when I'm watching a Bristol race. Happy for Junior. I have heard in magazines that Junior's a quiet guy. But he's more like his mom. Very caring and understanding. He has no self confidence in himself, which I can relate to also. And I can swear I watched an interview with him after a race in 07, where he had his hat over his eyes and I think he was crying. So that's why I like Junior. He's still not the old Junior though. He isn't going to finish better than 7th in the standings. Kyle Busch could of had major moment, if he won this race. His last 4 races would of been 2nd,3rd,1st and 1st. And he's great at Richmond. Instead of everyone now talking about Brad, we would be talking about him if he won this race. But of course, he laided an egg. But don't worry Kyle Busch fans. He won his 50th nationwide race. Surprised more people aren't talking about Bobby Labonte's season. 3 Top 15 finishes ALL YEAR. I also believe that Bobby Labonte is like Carl Edwards. I'm not saying he would try to kill anyone. But everyone makes him out to be such a nice guy when he isn't. I was at a dirt race in canada. Labonte and Blaney were there. I waited for ever to get their autograph. And we decided to talk to him. This is how the conversation went. Hey how are you going. Congrads on landing the 47 car. Maybe you can make the chase. BL: Yeah Sure. Then my dad asked somelike "did you bring your own car to the race. Or are they giving you a care" BL: I don't know. Um, goodbye. Anyway, really excited for Atlanta. Atlanta is always a good race. 96. Talk4Tar posted: 08.28.2011 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If the racing at "New Bristol" is so much better than it was at "Old Bristol", why do all of Bristol's ads use "Old Bristol" shots and why does Alan Bestwick keep saying "maybe we'll see the old Bristol tonight!"?" Because Alan Bestwick is a TV announcer trying to build "drama" for the County Fair Fans who don't appreciate racing. And Bristol is a race track trying to cater to the county fair crowd, who won't come in just to see racing. They don't have to pander to the Race Fans, because the Race Fans know to watch / show up, while the Country Fair fans need to have that kind of in your face advertising to convince them. It's not a sign of how good the racing is, it is more a sign of how dumb the NASCAR Fans typically are. 97. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.28.2011 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks for mentioning David Stremme, because I forgot all about him. Just goes to show how much people care about that moron. The initial contact coming off the turns was Stremme's own fault; he probably should have thanked Reut for being there because he probably would have lost it and wrecked (as usual) if that weren't the case. Instead he decided to dump Reut who was actually doing something meaningful while Stremme was just riding around. There's a reason Stremme got fired from so many teams. "Also, you guys remember when some people were saying Brad was gonna get booted from Penske by the end of 2011?" "I must ask, can anyone give an example of another driver who has turned their season around as big as Keselowski and the #2 team. I cannot think of anyone in history who's gone from running 20th or worse for the first and then flipped things like a switch, winning races and finishing in the top 5." I KNOW! It just shows how his career was going at that time, but in retrospect I think Brad was doing the best job he could with what he had to work with. After the 2009 season ended, Penske practically rebuilt the #12 team, but they couldn't seem to gain any progress, and I think that was because they were basing everything off of computers rather than accepting driver input on how the cars should be set up. The result was a typical season for the #2 team and Kurt and a terrible one for Brad and the #12. The aftermath was Brad switching sponsors because Miller wanted him, and Kurt getting Pennzoil (seriously, I think it shows how much of a pain Harvick is if KURT BUSCH of all people is favored). And Brad also got his Nationwide crew chief, Paul Wolfe to coach his Cup team. But the result still looked the same 9 races into the season, with races where he's lucky to even run in the top 20. Then, after Kurt's "I've had it, there needs to be changes NOW!" tirade over the radio at Richmond, they fired Tom German and started accepting driver input for their cars. Ever since then, Brad has been running awesome in that car, and Kurt has gained speed too. From what I gather, the team couldn't gain any progress because Penske Racing was ignoring driver input until German's release. Combine that with the fact that they kept rebuilding the #12 (now #2) team, and it's no wonder Brad struggled so much until Darlington. 98. Dylan posted: 08.28.2011 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a random note. Many people are stating how this is sort of a slumping year for Jimmie due to only having one win and usually spoiling his fans with 6+ wins every year; despite the fact that hes currently tied 1st in points. However, on looking at his stats, this could be considered as one of the best seasons of his career. Not counting 2001 (where he only raced 3 races); in 2011, Jimmie is averaging his 2nd best Average Finish with 10.1 in his career. He's only behind his best AvFn of 9.7 in 2006 of his first championship season. The astonishing part of this is, he's doing this with his worst Average Start of his career of 14.3 tying his rookie season as well in 2002. So this tells us that he is obviously slacking in the qualifying department, but that he is also making due with cars that aren't the fastest at race day that he usually was accustomed with during his 6+ win seasons. He has been grinding it out all year, and resulting in one of his best racing seasons in his career. I think hes very well on pace for a 6th straight championship. 99. Ryan posted: 08.28.2011 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " The new guy, the guy that's suddenly getting all the breaks like you used to get, all the right cautions (or in this case no caution) Yeah, that's why it is hard to feel sorry for Gordon. I sure don't. I think it was the 2nd Michigan race in '98 that he was down about 20 seconds when the last caution came out and he took two tires and it worked for him and he beat Mark Martin and won. He had no business winning that. There are plenty other examples. 100. Ryan posted: 08.28.2011 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony has had some success in the past at Atlanta, he needs a good run there in the worst way next weekend. 101. Rusty posted: 08.28.2011 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't blame drivers like Brad and Kenseth for taking advantage of the pit road rules. I would too, in professional sports everyone does every little thing they can to get an advantage. I think it is just a silly rule by NASCAR though. What is the point of having speeding rules, when you can speed on certain spots of pit road? Every car needs a mandated computer to track speeds and if they get over a certain speed no matter where on pit road you penelize them. 102. Red posted: 08.28.2011 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Surprised more people aren't talking about Bobby Labonte's season. 3 Top 15 finishes ALL YEAR." Bobby Labonte has been washed up for five solid years now. He hasn't really been competitive since 2003, and his move to Petty was career suicide. Now that he's way past his prime, and driving for a single car team, it's no surprise that he's struggled so badly. I hope JTG gives a young guy a shot in the #47 next year, because Bobby is just taking up space. And honestly, I think Bobby Labonte is the worst driver in NASCAR history with at least 20 wins. Similar to Jeff Burton, Bobby's peak coincided with the competitive lull of the mid- to late `90's. He had to contend with the primes of Gordon, Martin, and Jarrett, but that's about it. And subjectively, he always struck me as a more of a driver than a racer, much like his brother. I'm not saying he sucked, because he was certainly above average at his peak, but he's definitely NOT a hall-of-fame candidate in my mind. 103. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.28.2011 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This is an area where the rules are shades of grey when they should be black and white but for whatever reason NASCAR doesn't see fit to modernize things. Drivers taking advantage of the timing lines has always happened since pit speeds were implemented, it's just got more and more prevalent with teams figuring out they can really take advantage of the current situation, especially when passing on the track is so difficult." Agreed. I also meant to talk about this. The fact that one of my favorite drivers benefitted from this and won last night's race is irrelevant to my overall opinion of the pit road situation. I don't blame the drivers one bit for taking advantage of where they can slow down/where they can speed up on pit road because every second counts. And this will continue unless NASCAR decides to put more scoring loops on pit road. But as we saw, it presents a safety hazard. I watched Brad's onboard on a NASCAR.com clip when he did it, and there were pit crew members working on another car almost RIGHT NEXT to where Brad was. I'm afraid that if NASCAR decides to let this continue, somebody will get hurt eventually. 104. murb posted: 08.28.2011 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see that some people made some Chase predictions, so here are mine, if anyone cares: 1. Jeff Gordon (I think he has the fire, the team, and the speed to beat the 48 this year.) 2. Jimmie Johnson (Him and Jeff will probably be neck and neck for the whole Chase, but the 24 will make fewer mistakes.) 3. Matt Kenseth (For sure will be the leader in the "best of the rest" category.) 4. Carl Edwards (Might win a couple Chase races, but will probably have 1 or 2 electrical/mechanical problems that will take him out.) 5. Brad Keselowski (He'll start out the Chase continuing on this current hot streak, but will eventually cool down.) 6. Kyle Busch (Will probably win Dover, but then get in a couple Truck or Nationwide incidents, which will distract him on the Cup side.) 7. Kurt Busch (Up and down last ten races.) 8. Kevin Harvick (RCR cars aren't very good right now, but I can see them maybe regaining their speed during the last 3 or 4 races, but it will be too late for the championship.) 9. Dale Earnhardt Jr. (Will have an up and down Chase, but will get the long overdue win at Talladega.) 10. Ryan Newman (Typical Ryan Newman style Chase. Will be okay in some races but will wreck at Talladega and a couple other places.) 11. Denny Hamlin (Will continue to suffer from the "JJ Runner Up Curse".) 12. Tony Stewart (Will keep going like he's been going. I can see him getting a fuel mileage win at Chicago to start out, but then his last nine will be miserable. This will probably lead to Darian Grubb moving over to the new SHR team for Danica, and Smoke will get a new crew chief. Possibly Zippy if Home Depot goes to the 99 car in 2012 and the 20 team completely falls apart even more.) So yeah, that's kind of my rough idea of how I see the Chase playing out... 105. Scott B posted: 08.28.2011 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race: Scott Speed makes his first start in the #46. Mike Bliss makes his first start in the #51. David Starr leads 2 laps in the #95, his first career laps led in Cup. 106. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.28.2011 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To be fair, what's to say that Gordon was doing the similar thing with gassing it before his stall and/or gassing it big time until the start of the timing line he had to follow?" Actually his crew chief let it out of the bag that they were doing the same thing on the backstretch. Their problem was that they had the first pit stall so they kept getting blocked in by cars at the tail end of the line coming in as Jeff was coming out. I definitely understand Jeff's frustration, and I probably would have said the same thing. But he has taken advantage of NASCAR's gray areas as much as anyone (the T-Rex car anyone?). "BL: I don't know. Um, goodbye." Wow. I always thought he was just quiet. Interesting story. To the guy who said Bobby is the worst driver with 20+ wins, we can't forget his years from '98-'00. His championship year in 2000 was especially memorable in that he completed all but NINE laps. To me, he is a lot like Dale Jarrett. He pretty much is what his equipment is. If you give him a dominant car, he can dominate on the Cup level (not sure if he still can, but in his prime he could). But neither can really elevate a team all that much. "Kurt getting Pennzoil (seriously, I think it shows how much of a pain Harvick is if KURT BUSCH of all people is favored)." Harvick is definitely a pain, but a big part of that sponsorship is the huge deal Penske signed with Shell and Pennzoil to be the official oil and gas of all of his dealerships, rental trucks, and race teams. "I think hes very well on pace for a 6th straight championship." Same here. There is just no team that can do it week in and week out and handle all the chaos thrown their way like the 48. 107. MegaRacer posted: 08.28.2011 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow...lotta break problems early in this one. (rolls eyes) 108. Anonymous posted: 08.28.2011 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Rick Hendrick wants Dale Jr. to win a race. If he did Jr. would get cars as good as Jeff or Jimmie every week. He can still win if he has the car to do it. Also a low number of cautions for Bristol. 109. Anonymous posted: 08.28.2011 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) # 108 Hendrick did give Jr. the # 24 cars when he moved in to the previously named 248 shop. As was described at the beginning of the season the so-called "crew-chief swap" was actualy a driver swap. Jr. got the # 24 cc, pit crew, cars etc. Gordon got the # 5 team. Martin took over the #88 equipment. Only the # 48 team remained intact. 110. murb posted: 08.28.2011 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Bobby Labonte has been washed up for five solid years now. He hasn't really been competitive since 2003, and his move to Petty was career suicide. Now that he's way past his prime, and driving for a single car team, it's no surprise that he's struggled so badly. I hope JTG gives a young guy a shot in the #47 next year, because Bobby is just taking up space." Well, if JTG does give a young guy a shot, I sure as hell hope it isn't Steven Wallace. Because he's been rumored to that ride ever since Ambrose left. My choice for a young guy to go in that car would be someone like David Mayhew or Drew Herring. And I've always liked Bobby, but I agree that it might be time for him to hang it up. I know that he owns his own World of Outlaws late model team, and it's really successful. So maybe in a year or two he will just say "screw it" and start focusing on that full time. 111. hyperacti posted: 08.28.2011 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 75. Imagine this race from Jeff Gordon's perspective. You've got the best car, and you're driving your ass off with it. Things are looking good for your 85th win, which would officially cement you in third place all time. You're getting older and wins are harder to come by, but this one feels natural just like the old days. Then on a pit stop with 90 or so laps to go, your team gets you out fast, and you're passing your competition on pit road. Things are looking good, you think to yourself. Then all of a sudden, Matt Kenseth goes flying by you. And then Brad Keselowski goes flying by you at nearly double your speed, which is the pit road speed, for several seconds, and cruises out onto the track. Suddenly you are starting behind two cars that clearly broke the rules that you were diligently following, but also other cars that elected to go with 2 tires. Suddenly, the hope for your 85th win, the one that you were sure you had a great shot at getting, is slowly fading away. And a car that, let's face it, cheated, is pulling further and further away from you on a nice open track, as you burn up your tires trying to pass a car that is clearly slower, but is being driven by a driver so desperate for their first good finish in years that they don't yield a single inch. Briefly, you consider pushing them out of the way. That's the way you did it in the old days, but you think better of it. No point. The race is over. The new guy, the guy that's suddenly getting all the breaks like you used to get, all the right cautions (or in this case no caution), the guy that you saw break the rules but get away with it because they exploited an outdated scoring method, that guy is the one celebrating in victory lane instead of you. -- Now wouldn't you be frustrated if you were Jeff Gordon? I know I would be. Very well told 112. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.28.2011 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh. Steve can't even run NWide races without crashing himself or somebody else every other week. Although it would give their sponsors a lot more TV exposure because wrecks are highlighted in telecasts. 113. 00andJoe posted: 08.29.2011 - 4:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #111: "Suddenly you are starting behind two cars that clearly broke the rules that you were diligently following" 1. Gordon's team has explicitly said they were trying to do the same thing the 17 and 2 were - far from "diligently following" them - but would get boxed in by other cars coming in to pit (as the 24 was up at the front and had an early pit box), making it impossible for them to do so. 2. What the 17 and 2 (and 24) did is not, technically, BREAKING the rules. It's EXPLOITING the rules as they stand. Like so many things in NASCAR history, it's taking advantage of what the rules do NOT say instead of what they do. The rules: you can't exceed [pit road speed] as timed in segments on pit road delineated by timing lines. You: have first pit stall inside a scoring-loop segment. Exploit: Drive it like you stole it exiting your pit stall until you reach the end of the segment, your time stopped lowering your average speed to 'legal'. Like Smokey Yunick's infamous 7/8-scale Chevelle, it's perfectly legal under the rules at the time, and it'll no doubt be rendered illegal before very long. 114. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.29.2011 - 7:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again, I understand Jeff's in the moment frustration, but like I said earlier, he has taken advantage of NASCAR's gray areas quite a bit himself. Hopefully he doesn't say anything else about it. Unless he wants to give back some of the stuff he has won, most notably his trophy from his win in the Winston in 1997. 115. Cooper posted: 08.29.2011 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper's interesting fact of the race: --The 6 cautions in this race is the lowest amount at Bristol since 1996, in which the Spring race only had 5. You don't have to look this up because I already did. 116. Scott B posted: 08.29.2011 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MegaRacer (post 107)... When you look at how the money is divided up, it's easy to understand. $85,960 to Robby Gordon who went to the garage after 10 laps ("brakes") for 43rd place. $86,575 to Dave Blaney who had a legitimate engine failure and ran 457 laps for 35th place. $87,930 to David Starr who was running at the finish for 27th place and led 2 laps. With only 2 grand or so separating those results, it's hard to justify the extra effort from a purely financial standpoint. 117. 00andJoe posted: 08.29.2011 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Exactly. Why risk tearing up your equipment if you don't have a sponsor paying for it? And if you just stay home, you're not making anything - and perhaps more importantly, you're invisible... 118. 00andJoe posted: 08.29.2011 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #78 sponsor: Furniture Row/Denver Mattress #46 sponsor: Green Stuff/Engine Parts Plus The #78 had its 'normal' sponsorship for this race. The Farm American sponsorship is for Michigan (already run), Atlanta and Kansas. The #46 had Green Stuff on the hood and Engine Parts Plus on the quarterpanels. 119. Talon64 posted: 08.29.2011 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "On a random note. Many people are stating how this is sort of a slumping year for Jimmie due to only having one win and usually spoiling his fans with 6+ wins every year; despite the fact that hes currently tied 1st in points. However, on looking at his stats, this could be considered as one of the best seasons of his career. Not counting 2001 (where he only raced 3 races); in 2011, Jimmie is averaging his 2nd best Average Finish with 10.1 in his career. He's only behind his best AvFn of 9.7 in 2006 of his first championship season. The astonishing part of this is, he's doing this with his worst Average Start of his career of 14.3 tying his rookie season as well in 2002. So this tells us that he is obviously slacking in the qualifying department, but that he is also making due with cars that aren't the fastest at race day that he usually was accustomed with during his 6+ win seasons. He has been grinding it out all year, and resulting in one of his best racing seasons in his career. I think hes very well on pace for a 6th straight championship." Jimmie's already won the championship about every way imaginable, he might as well win it this year despite only winning 1 race. Besides, when Kenseth did it in 2003 it resulted in a complete change to the point/championship system so a guy can dream... Brad Keselowski earns his 4th career Sprint Cup Series victory and 3rd of the season. He's the 1st driver in 2011 to post 4 consecutive top 3 finishes and the first since Jimmie Johnson did it in the Chase last season. The 3 wins are most by a Penske driver in a season since Ryan Newman had 8 in 2003, and the most for the #2 Miller Lite team since Rusty Wallace had 4 in 2000. Keselowski only had 6 top 10's in his first 62 starts in Cup, but has 6 top 5's in his last 15. It's Penske Racing's 70th career win in Cup (includes 3 wins by Jeremy Mayfield in the #12 that was technically owned by Michael Kranefuss). It's the 9th win for Penske at Bristol, their most at any track (7 with Rusty Wallace, 1 with Kurt Busch, 1 with Brad Keselowski and all with the #2 car). Martin Truex Jr. gets his best finish in Cup since he finished 2nd at Michigan back in August of 2007. It's just his 4th top 5 in the past 3 seasons, but his 2nd in the last 3 races. It's also his 4th career runner-up finish and the 2nd for MWR this season (Reutimann at Kentucky), and it's Truex's first top 10 in 12 career Bristol starts (20.7 avg fin). Jeff Gordon leads 200+ laps in a race for the first time since he led 219 laps at Las Vegas last season. He'd only led a total of 11 laps in the first 9 races at Bristol under the new configuration but the 206 laps led are his most there since leading 235 in August 2002 (his infamous bump on Rusty Wallace to win the race). Jeff became just the 5th driver to lead over 2,500 career laps at Bristol, but is 790 behind 4th place Darrell Waltrip. It's his 15th top 5 in 38 career Bristol starts but his 1st top 10 in the last 5 races. Jeff also surpassed Dale Earnhardt to take over the modern era record for top 5's with 282. He's 4th all time, 19 back of David Pearson for 3rd. Jimmie Johnson now has at least 10 top 5's for the 9th consecutive season (138 over that span leads all drivers, JG 2nd at 122); the only time in his 10 seasons he hasn't accomplished the feat was in his rookie season in 2002 when he only had 6 (3 wins). Jimmie's scored the most points of anyone over the last 7 races with 5 top 5's, 6 top 10's and a 6.7 average finish. Jimmie's 76 laps led in this race is actually the fewest he's led in the last 6 Bristol races; he's led a total of 694 laps over that span (43 laps led over his first 14 Bristol starts) which is 2nd only to Kyle Busch (886). Jimmie has 4 top 5's and 5 top 10's in the last 6 there, with only a 35th marring him despite leading a Bristol career-high 175 laps in that race. Jamie McMurray picks up just his 2nd top 5 of the season (both in the last 5 races), and 3rd in 18 Bristol starts (7 top 10's, 17.7 avg fin). In a 3 race stretch at Bristol from 2005 to 2006, Matt Kenseth led 656 of 1500 laps run (2 wins and a 3rd). In the 9 races following that Kenseth led ZERO laps before leading 110 in this race. However, it's his 5th consecutive top 10 at Bristol and his 16th in 24 career starts (12.0 avg fin). After putting up an average finish of 28.25 in the last 4 races with a best finish of 15th, Denny Hamlin gets just his 8th top 10 of the season. It's also his first top 10 in the last 4 Bristol races and 6th in 12 career starts there (15.5 avg fin). Ryan Newman won his 48th career Sprint Cup pole; he's just 1 back of Bobby Isaac for 9th all time and is 2 behind Mark Martin for 6th and 3 back of Cale Yarborough for 5th in the modern era. Newman picked up his 5th top 10 in the last 7 races overall (7.3 avg fin) and his 12th top 10 in 20 career Bristol starts (16.7 avg fin) and 6th in the last 7 races. However, Newman only has 1 top 5 finish at Bristol (2nd in 2004). Carl Edwards got just his 2nd top 10 in the last 6 races, and has no top 5's in that span (10 in the first 18 races of the season). Since 2006 Carl hasn't finished worse than 16th at Bristol with 2 wins, 4 top 5's, 7 top 10's and an 8.42 avg fin in 12 starts. Marcos Ambrose's 3 top 10's in 6 Bristol starts are his most at any oval track (1 top 5, 15.2 avg fin). Only Richmond (14.0) and Las Vegas (12.7) are where he has better career average finishes. Ambrose's 8 top 10's this season are a new career high, surpassing his previous total of 7 in his 1st full season back in 2009. Kyle Busch finishes outside of the top 10 at Bristol for the first time in 7 races and just the 2nd time in the last 12. His 14th place finish also ended his overall 4 race top 10 streak. Regan Smith has back-to-back top 20 finishes for just the 2nd time this season (3 in a row, including his Darlington win, is the other). 120. Talon64 posted: 08.29.2011 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Milestone/Rankings: Brad Keselowski's 4 career wins ties him with 17 others (including Michael Waltrip, Morgan Shepherd, Ken Schrader, Joe Nemechek, Bobby Hamilton and Clint Bowyer) for 74th all time, is tied for 43rd in the modern era and is tied for 8th since coming to Cup in 2009. Jeff Gordon's 390th career top 10 ties him with Darrell Waltrip for 5th all time, also tied with DW for 3rd in the modern era, and is 53 more than the next driver (Mark Martin, 337) since coming to Cup full time in 1993. Matt Kenseth moved past Bobby Labonte into 27th all time in top 10's with 202, 19th in the modern era and his 200 top 10's since moving to Cup full time in 2000 is the 4th most. Ryan Newman is now tied with Wendell Scott for the 45th most top 10's all time with 147; he's 31st in the modern era and his 145 top 10's since 2002 are the 7th most. Denny Hamlin tied Speedy Thompson for 62nd all time with his 105th top 10; he's 39th in the modern era and his 102 top 10's since 2006 are the 7th most. Jamie McMurray tied Jeremy Mayfield for 66th all time with 96 top 10's, 40th in the modern era and his 94 top 10's since 2003 are the 16th most. Jimmie Johnson moved back ahead of Tony Stewart into 12th all time in laps led with 15,585; he ranks 9th in the modern era and is the only driver to lead over 10,000 laps since coming to Cup full time in 2002. Matt Kenseth moved past Herb Thomas into 30th all time in laps led with 6,288; he ranks 25th in the modern era and 7th since coming to Cup full time in 2000. 121. Scott B posted: 08.29.2011 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske Racing also had a 1-2-3 finish at the Indy car race at Sonoma the next day... not a bad weekend for the Captain. 122. 00andJoe posted: 08.29.2011 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owners standings by best finishing car: 1. Gibbs, 979 2. Hendrick, 969 3. Roush, 965 4. Childress, 916 5. Penske, 892 6. Stewart-Haas, 836 7. Petty, 783 8. Red Bull, 743 9. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 739 10. Waltrip, 720 11. Furniture Row, 552 12. JTG-Daughtery, 509 13. Front Row, 450 14. Phoenix, 424 15. Germain, 344 16. Baldwin, 338 17. Stoddard, 330 18. TRG, 322 19. Robby Gordon, 269 20. Wood Brothers, 238 21. Gunselman, 152 22. Whitney, 101 23. Parsons, 95 24. NEMCO, 90 25. Inception, 56 26. Leavine, 32 27. Rusty Wallace, 24 28. Falk, 20 29. K-Automotive, 9 123. 00andJoe posted: 08.29.2011 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #71 sponsor: Interstate Moving Services/Shotwell-Schulte Ventures 124. 00andJoe posted: 08.29.2011 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Atlanta entry list is out. 47 cars: -Stremme in the #30 -Bliss in the #32 -Geoff Bodine in the #35 -#37 driver TBA -Yeley in the #38 -Speed in the #46 (for the rest of the year, so last mention here) -Bell in the #50 -Cassill is listed in the #51 -Kvapil in the #55 -Starr in the #95 125. BON GORDON posted: 08.29.2011 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im lazy but where does Jeff Gordon and Kevin Harvick have to finish to have a spot clinched in the chase. I know that they dont have to finish that high in the race. They are almost locked. 126. 18fan posted: 08.29.2011 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick has clinched at least a wild card because Hamlin can't pass him in points even if Kevin finishes last in the next two races and Denny wins both. Jeff Gordon needs to be 97 points ahead of 11th after Atlanta and he's currently 93, so he has to beat Brad by 4 spots if Brad doesn't pass Tony in points this week. 127. BON GORDON posted: 08.29.2011 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought he would only need to be 47 points or so with one race to go? Cause thats the max points you can gain on a driver. 128. BON GORDON posted: 08.29.2011 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 47 points ahead of 11th that is. Whose to say Brad K. will be 11th in points after atlanta anyway. 129. 18fan posted: 08.29.2011 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My bad, it was 97 after Bristol. I forgot when I read the thing on Jayski that it was before Bristol that I read it. Sorry to everybody for the bad information. 130. Matt G posted: 08.30.2011 - 10:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man Bristol sucks now. Not only is it devoid of the unique passing style and beating and banging that gave the track its beloved reputation, but it also falls short in producing good racing. Once you remove the fake lead changes that occur under green flag pit stops and note that several more unfolded on pit lane under caution, you realize that there were ONLY FOUR ACTUAL PASSES FOR THE LEAD ON TRACK ALL NIGHT!!!!!! Sorry Bristol, but if you're going to try and play the "good racing" card on this new track, you're going to have to do better than that. Track position still means EVERYTHING at this place - The only difference is now the old art of passing at Bristol (and it was quite an art), is gone. Watching someone have to plan out and time their move to make a pass under the old Bristol was breathtaking because you had to be absolutely perfect - Any mistake at all and someone was going for a ride. (Truly one of the toughest tests in the sport that separated the men form the boys) Now, there's no art to passing here. Just get in the opposite lane, and wait for the painfully slow process of the faster car prevailing to unfold while the car in front of you drives away. /Yawn Bristol has lost its charm. I miss the old art of trying to set of a pass there. Sure there were plenty of drivers who couldn't do it properly and just got into accidents all night but that was a small price to pay to avoid some of the snoozefests we've see at this track recently - And this race, may have been the worst yet. 131. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.30.2011 - 11:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brad Keselowski's 4 career wins ties him with 17 others (including Michael Waltrip" AAAAAHHHHH! Alright Brad, I need you to win again REALLY soon. This will bother me until you do. "Sorry Bristol, but if you're going to try and play the "good racing" card on this new track, you're going to have to do better than that." That is one of my main points about New Bristol vs Old Bristol. They talk about stuff like "now they can actually race". No they can't. The racing is plain bad IMO. Nothing really happens, it is a half mile Michigan. "The only difference is now the old art of passing at Bristol (and it was quite an art), is gone. Watching someone have to plan out and time their move to make a pass under the old Bristol was breathtaking because you had to be absolutely perfect - Any mistake at all and someone was going for a ride. (Truly one of the toughest tests in the sport that separated the men form the boys)" Amen brother!! Another argument I hate: "In the past all they did was knock each other out of the way!". Wrong. You are right, setting up the driver in front of you to get in position to have your nose under them at some point in the corner was truly an art. Like you said, it was a very meticulous art. Did they use the bump and run there? Of course. But guess what: THEY STILL DO!!!! What is the most famous moment of the New Bristol? 2008 when Carl beat K-Y in the closing laps by using the (wait for it..... wait for it.....) BUMP N RUN!!! To say Old Bristol was only bumper cars is erroneous. It sure as hell beat..... "Now, there's no art to passing here. Just get in the opposite lane, and wait for the painfully slow process of the faster car prevailing to unfold while the car in front of you drives away." Once again, I agree 100%. It is even harder to pass now. I guess I shouldn't complain because, on the Old Bristol, Jeff passes Truex easily and runs down Brad and rides off into the night. But what was once a very compelling track is just dull as hell to me. That is just my opinion. The good news? Sears Point has taken Bristol's place. Now that all the top drivers are good at road racing (except Kenseth), and its not just 4 or 5 good road racers battling for the win (which was compelling) with the rest of the field just trying to keep it on the track and not tear up the transmission. We can get our yearly fix of lovable chaos from a road course in Wine Country of Northern California of all places. Oh well, I'll take it. I'd actually love to go to a race there, you know, if it wasn't 3,500 miles from where I live. 132. Talk4Tar posted: 08.30.2011 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Getting your nose under someone and shoving them up the track is not art. It's not unique. It's not racing. It's not art. I've seen more tact used in passing at the local go kart track. "Now, there's no art to passing here. Just get in the opposite lane, and wait for the painfully slow process of the faster car prevailing to unfold while the car in front of you drives away." Wait... you mean racing? Two cars, side by side after lap, with the "faster" car trying to gain the advantage, and pulling ahead after SEVERAL LAPS of the "slower" car doing his very best to hold off the faster car. Two drivers (and sometimes three and the new Bristol) side-by-side, door-to-door, wheeling through the corners, hoping they have the faster line. Drivers locked in an epic battle around the 1/2 mile oval. Just because a driver doesn't get next to someone and then drive off doesn't mean there is "no passing" it means, there IS racing. I'm not sure if this is a case of NASCAR Fan Syndrome taking over, but I'll take lap after lap of side-by-side racing over a driver shoving into the corner with all the elegance of an alcoholic elephant, shoving past the car in front of him and then stumbling on to do the exact same thing to the car in front of him. The NASCAR Sprint Cup Series is supposed to be the premier racing series in the United States. If these are the elite drivers in the elite series... why would you want to pay $75 (for the cheap seats!) to watch something you could see at the county fair for like $10? Bristol today takes finesse that it didn't take since the years of being concrete. Bristol today is a track where the driver actually has to think, much more so than they ever had to. Instead of getting to the bottom, shoving the guy in front of you up the track then driving past and doing it again. You guys are complaining that it is harder to pass? OF COURSE IT IS HARDER TO PASS! You have drivers actually RACING each other now. That's significantly more difficult than a "Bump N Run." And of course you still see cars doing a Bump and Run at the new Bristol... you also see cars doing it on 1.5-2.0 miles tracks too! Just because you can race someone, doesn't mean everyone will (especially that idiot Carl Edwards, but that's another debate for another day). So, for you guys who pine for the days of the "Old Bristol" I truly feel bad for you. Not because you "lost" the old Bristol, but you can actually dog the "New Bristol" for creating what is, by every definition of word, better racing. 133. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.30.2011 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't worry. :P Brad's career is already more impressive than Michael Waltrip's because: 1) He has four wins in his first 77 races. It took Waltrip 463(!!!) starts to finally win. 2) He has a variety of wins at different tracks (Talladega, Kansas, Pocono, Bristol) while ALL of Waltrip's wins came on plate tracks. 134. Jeffrey posted: 08.30.2011 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have 3 more things to say. 1. Matt G. & DSFF, there's no art to that. As Dave Moody said yesterday on Sirius NASCAR Radio he could do that style of sitting behind someone for awhile, and then when you feel like it hit them. 2. What makes anyone think real fans want to sit and watch lots of caution laps? In the last 10 races run on the old Bristol the Avg. # of caution laps were 96.5. In the 9 races run on the new Bristol the Avg. is 62.2. 3. Someone explain to me why all the 1.5 mile tracks are called "boring cookie-cutters", yet every short track needs to be the same beat n' bang fest. Why can't we call these cookie-cutter short tracks? 135. murb posted: 08.30.2011 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Don't worry. :P Brad's career is already more impressive than Michael Waltrip's because: 1) He has four wins in his first 77 races. It took Waltrip 463(!!!) starts to finally win. 2) He has a variety of wins at different tracks (Talladega, Kansas, Pocono, Bristol) while ALL of Waltrip's wins came on plate tracks." Plus, Brad isn't a dumbass, like MW. 136. murb posted: 08.30.2011 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The good news? Sears Point has taken Bristol's place. Now that all the top drivers are good at road racing (except Kenseth), and its not just 4 or 5 good road racers battling for the win (which was compelling) with the rest of the field just trying to keep it on the track and not tear up the transmission. We can get our yearly fix of lovable chaos from a road course in Wine Country of Northern California of all places. Oh well, I'll take it. I'd actually love to go to a race there, you know, if it wasn't 3,500 miles from where I live." Plus, Martinsville has really produced some great races lately. And Richmond pretty much always has good racing. So its not like short track racing is completely dead in the Cup series. I can't wait until Iowa gets a Cup race or possibly two. To me its inevitable. The racing there is too good. 137. Talon64 posted: 08.30.2011 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So Kevin Harvick's really been focusing on getting his Cup season back on track. http://www.scenedaily.com/news/articles/sprintcupseries/Kevin_Harvick_warns_Kyle_Busch_He_might_get_his_butt_whipped_again.html There was that before the weekend, then there's this today: http://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2011/8/30/2393471/kevin-harvick-kyle-busch-douchebag-nascar-rivalry-atlanta-2011 _______________________________________ Harvick: Kevin Harvick was a guest of The Bert Show on Atlanta's Q100 radio station Tuesday morning and dished to host Bert Weiss about his rivalry with fellow NASCAR driver Kyle Busch. Weiss, a Harvick supporter, said he recently passed up a ridealong with Busch at Atlanta Motor Speedway out of loyalty to Harvick and wondered aloud whether he made the right call. Harvick agreed with the decision but added, "You would have gotten to see first-hand just how much of a douchebag Kyle Busch really is." _________________________________ among a couple other things. In the heat of the moment when he felt like he just got dumped on track, Kyle brought up Harvick. But in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK with supposedly cool heads, all Harvick can talk about is Kyle Busch. Of the two, I think one is screwing himself out of a title more than the other. And that's with the one's team already screwing him out of it by sucking balls. 138. Talk4Tar posted: 08.30.2011 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " I can't wait until Iowa gets a Cup race or possibly two. To me its inevitable. The racing there is too good." Why would you want Iowa on the Cup Schedule! Drivers race side by side and don't have to knock each other out of the way! Clearly Iowa sucks. 139. Cooper posted: 08.30.2011 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "132. Talk4Tar posted: 08.30.11 - 2:24 pm" Unfortunately for you, you're in the minority. The old Bristol was annoying but the new Bristol is irritating. Short track racing is not about multiple grooves. It's about beating and banging. That's how it's been forever. These drivers cut their teeth on "Old Bristol" tracks. One groove racetracks, where every lap was vital because you we're vulnerable to being run over. If you don't want to get dumped, run faster. Simple as that. NASCAR was built on short track racing. NASCAR was built on drivers beating and banging. NASCAR was built on the bull-rings. It's just unfortunate fans like you don't appreciate the roots. BUT, I do know where you're coming from. There are many things that most people like, in which I dislike. I liked the Old Homestead more than the New Homestead. I liked the Old Restrictor Plate racing more than the new. I like the current car more than the old car. Luckily for you, you can enjoy the next 10 years of racing at Bristol while most fans have to watch in despair. 140. murb posted: 08.30.2011 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In the heat of the moment when he felt like he just got dumped on track, Kyle brought up Harvick. But in the MIDDLE OF THE WEEK with supposedly cool heads, all Harvick can talk about is Kyle Busch. Of the two, I think one is screwing himself out of a title more than the other. And that's with the one's team already screwing him out of it by sucking balls." Unfortunately, you're absolutely right. I've been a Harvick fan for 10 years now, and it's moments like these that sometimes make it embarassing to be one. He gets sidetracked by stupid little comments like Kyle's at the Truck race. However, I have yet to see any evidence that this is Kyle's year either. The media can talk all they want about "New Kyle vs Old Kyle", but until he actually gets some Chase wins and doesn't have a breakdown, I'm not convinced about him being the championship favorite. 141. Talk4Tar posted: 08.30.2011 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "138. Cooper posted: 08.30.11 - 3:31 pm" Cooper, I greatly respect your opinion on this site, so don't take this as insulting towards you, because it's not meant to be in anyway. But I spend literally every weekend from April-September watching racing on tracks equal to or smaller than Bristol. As of today, I've been to 39 races at tracks as small as 1/6 of a mile to as large as a 1/2 mile. Beating and banging on these short tracks, and the hundreds of short tracks around the country, is typically the exception and not the rule. To say I don't appreciate the roots NASCAR came from is simply not respecting the true roots NASCAR came from. If drivers beat on each other on those old short tracks like people seem to think, there wouldn't have been a NASCAR to make it that far. These were guys racing with almost no money, going from track to track depending on the prize money to get them there. Had they just beat on each other like most think, they wouldn't have been able to afford to race the next day, let alone upwards of 40 races a season. These drivers today didn't cut their teeth on the "one-groove" tracks either. Brad Keselowski regularly raced at the Dixie Motor Speedway, Auto City Speedway, Owosso Speedway and Spartan Speedway, all within an hour of where I live, and not one of those tracks are "one-groove" tracks. I'm not sure how many "short tracks" you've been to before Cooper, but I've been to 26 race tracks in my life, 25 of which are equal to, if not smaller than Bristol. At all of those 25 tracks, there is none of the beating and banging you speak of. Of course there is the occasional contact, but nothing like you speak of. Short track racing is about what every kind of racing should be about: good competition between fast cars. Not about someone getting mad and throwing their helmet. Not about punting the car in front of you because the track your on allows no other way to get around that car. Not about "beating and banging." If I'm gonna spend $75 to watch a race, and I see the kind of stupidity they had at the Old Bristol, I'd ask for a refund, because I paid to watch a race... and I got a 500-lap version of race track conga. And if that's why people liked Bristol... then why do they profess to like tracks like Richmond and Iowa? Those tracks feature nothing but the side-by-side racing Bristol has now. It's the same kind of racing, yet people love it at Richmond and Iowa and hate new Bristol? That makes no sense. Oh well, I guess ESPN Classic needs a target audience. 142. Talon64 posted: 08.30.2011 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "However, I have yet to see any evidence that this is Kyle's year either. The media can talk all they want about "New Kyle vs Old Kyle", but until he actually gets some Chase wins and doesn't have a breakdown, I'm not convinced about him being the championship favorite." See, this is where I feel like Kyle's in a no-win situation with the fans. The only way people will believe he can perform in the Chase is if... well he performs in the Chase. If it's the team that lets him down it won't matter, it'll still be that Kyle can't step it up. I think Kyle's finishing no worse than 2nd in the points. He'll either break out and win it all, or have that lose-a-chamionship-to-win-one year. Either way, he'll figure it out (enough) that he won't have any more major choke moments. 143. Matt G posted: 08.30.2011 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Getting your nose under someone and shoving them up the track is not art. It's not unique. It's not racing. It's not art." I'm still looking for the part of my comment that proclaims "shoving someone up the track" an art. The shoving someone up the track part is what drivers did when they couldn't perfect the art of timing the pass well enough to get their nose far enough under the other driver down the straightaway so they didn't have to shove someone up the track when they got to the corner. "Two drivers (and sometimes three at the new Bristol) side-by-side, door-to-door, wheeling through the corners, hoping they have the faster line. Drivers locked in an epic battle around the 1/2 mile oval." I've seen episodes of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood that were more "epic" than some of the battles I saw on Saturday night. "Just because a driver doesn't get next to someone and then drive off doesn't mean there is "no passing" it means, there IS racing." There were 4 ON TRACK PASSES FOR THE LEAD ALL NIGHT!!! Unless a team brings down the hammer one week and shows up with a car nobody could touch, that should not happen on a track that claims to have both multiple good groves and good racing. Most of the side by side "action" was between cars who weren't on the same lap as each other and many of the other green flag passes were during green flag pit stops. "Bristol today is a track where the driver actually has to think, much more so than they ever had to. Instead of getting to the bottom, shoving the guy in front of you up the track then driving past and doing it again." If you watched close enough during the races at the old Bristol, you would see that the opposite of what you are saying is actually true. A driver had to think more under the old Bristol because he had to meticulously plan out where he could get a good enough run to the inside of another guy without wrecking him. Now you don't think at all. You just go in one of the lanes the guy in front of you is not in - And since there are only two groves instead of many like the tracks which are REALLY made for this type of racing, there is no decision making there. It pulls what may be my favorite layer of depth right out of the race. There's very little, if any set up to the pass at all now; whereas before Bristol reigned KING in that department. "Not because you "lost" the old Bristol, but you can actually dog the "New Bristol" for creating what is, by every definition of word, better racing." If you think 4 on track lead changes + very little pass set up = good racing, then you and I have a very different definition of it. To each is own I guess. 144. Cooper posted: 08.30.2011 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "141. Talk4Tar posted: 08.30.11 - 3:52 pm" I've been to many short tracks here in Southern Ontario. And all but a couple are single groove racetracks. There is also many classic races that I've watched on television and on the computer that shows beating and banging regularly. But in reality both are acceptable and entertaining forms of short track racing. Richmond is an awesome place to watch a race. Both grooves are raceable and that's why it is mostly liked by racing fans. The reason that it is dejected by fans at Bristol is because Bristol is not a place built for two groove racing. Bristol reminds me of that kid in school who tried to be someone they weren't. Instead of priding themselves on their uniqueness, they try to change who they are because a certain group of people dislike them. For two races out of 36 races in a season, no one cared about finesse. No one cared about forward bite and handling. No one cared about aero, they just cared about racing. That's what I liked about the "Old Bristol". I actually wrote a blog in March about this issue. Hopefully you give it a read and actually see where my stance is on Bristol. http://www.racing-reference.info/showblog?id=642 145. murb posted: 08.30.2011 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think Kyle's finishing no worse than 2nd in the points. He'll either break out and win it all, or have that lose-a-chamionship-to-win-one year. Either way, he'll figure it out (enough) that he won't have any more major choke moments." That may be true. But I just see him having one more of those "lose one to win one" types of years. 146. Talon64 posted: 08.30.2011 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But to lose on to win one, he actually has to contend for it. As in be in the hunt right until the last race of the year. And he hasn't done that yet. 147. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.30.2011 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for whether you enjoy the Old Bristol better or the New Bristol, that is just an opinion. Nobody is right or wrong. But Talk4Tar, you are 100% wrong in assessing Old Bristol. Again, for anybody playing the "all they ever did on Old Bristol was knock the hell out of each other" card is plain wrong. As Matt G has pointed out, there was a definite art to passing there. Did they sometimes run out of patience and just punt the guy in front of them? Of course. But that is short track racing. And it did NOT happen all the time. Again, if you think New Bristol is better racing, that is cool. It puts me to sleep, but that is just my personal preference. But you can't say "Old Bristol was wrecking, New Bristol is racing". That is incorrect, no if's and's or but's. 148. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.30.2011 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Plus, Martinsville has really produced some great races lately." Martinsville is the last true short track left. It is so much fun to go to. "As Dave Moody said yesterday on Sirius NASCAR Radio he could do that style of sitting behind someone for awhile, and then when you feel like it hit them." He is wrong. About that being the style of racing, and saying it was easy. That is just the host of a show knowing the drivers love the New Bristol (because it is less of a headache) and not wanting to make them mad so they will come on his show. 149. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.30.2011 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick and K-Y are both tools. If they put half the effort they put into being bad boys into trying to reach their respective potentials as drivers, they'd be battling for the championship every year. At least Harvick would when RCR wasn't at the bottom of one of their notorious cycles. I've always judged K-Y's progress next to Jeff Gordon's. They are both freakishly talented drivers that were given an opportunity in elite Cup equipment (the same team!) at young ages. The year Gordon turned 26 was 1997, his sixth season. By this point that year (coming to Labor Day weekend), Jeff had 27 career wins, a Cup championship, a Cup runner up, a 10 win season, and a Daytona 500. He was about to win the Southern 500 for a third straight year and the $1 million bonus he was eligible for. He would go on to get his 2nd championship. Oddly enough, K-Y also has a chance to win a $1 million bonus this weekend. This is the year he turned 26, his seventh season. He has slightly less wins despite one additional season and more races in a season. Most importantly he hasn't sniffed a Cup yet, and only has one major win (and that is only if you are like me and count the new Mother's Day Darlington race as a major). No Daytona 500s, no Coke 600s (Jeff had 2), no All Star races (Jeff had 2), no Brickyard 400s (Jeff had one). So, to me, he is lagging behind of his capabilities. Jeff showed what a super talented young driver in great equipment can do. And Harvick? Forget about it. He isn't as talented as K-Y, but he should have had a better career. Even though he won 6 times in a span of just over a year recently (April '10 - May '11), he averages less than 2 wins per year in an 11 year career. He has won most of the majors, but oddly enough they have all been followed by long winless streaks. He won the '03 Brickyard 400, and didn't win again until 2005. He won the '07 Daytona 500, and didn't win again for over 3 years. His most recent win was this year's Coke 600. Are we going to see another long winless streak? 150. 18fan posted: 08.30.2011 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, While yes the major races are a great way to measure drivers, the point you brought up about Harvick shows the flaw in that philosophy. For example, Kevin Harvick has more Coca-Cola 600 wins than Cale Yarborough. Is that an accurate depiction of who's the better driver? No. Of course Cale won a lot at Darlington in the era of Pearson's epic domination of Darlington, even though most of Pearson's dominance was in the spring race, won 4 Daytona 500s and 5 Southern 500s. Another example, Buddy Baker won more Coke 600s than David Pearson and the same amount of Grand Slam races, but Pearson is definitely the better driver, although Buddy was pretty damn good. 151. Ryan posted: 08.31.2011 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And Harvick? Forget about it. He isn't as talented as K-Y, but he should have had a better career. Even though he won 6 times in a span of just over a year recently (April '10 - May '11), he averages less than 2 wins per year in an 11 year career. He has won most of the majors, but oddly enough they have all been followed by long winless streaks. He won the '03 Brickyard 400, and didn't win again until 2005. He won the '07 Daytona 500, and didn't win again for over 3 years. His most recent win was this year's Coke 600. Are we going to see another long winless streak?" Someone asked me other day if I thought Kevin Harvick was doing maybe what Jimmie Johnson and his team supposedly do and "test" for the Chase. I was like no way in hell. One reason is that Burton and Bowyer are not doing too well either. Regardless if it's the Chase, first part of the season, 2nd part of the season if Harv's car will run good he will run it, that's for sure. He's got a lot of Dale in him in that regard. I don't think I could see him testing, because I don't think he has the patience for that. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. We'll know soon enough. 152. Talk4Tar posted: 08.31.2011 - 1:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Again, if you think New Bristol is better racing, that is cool. It puts me to sleep, but that is just my personal preference. But you can't say "Old Bristol was wrecking, New Bristol is racing". That is incorrect, no if's and's or but's." So, you can say that the Old Bristol was great because of the Bump and Run and all that stuff that everyone is arguing in favor of the old configuration... but as soon as I use the exact same reasoning as to why the Old Bristol wasn't great it didn't happen? That's like saying 2 plus 2 equals 4, but 4 does not equal 2 plus 2. You're calling "art" what I call "wrecking," which is cool, I don't like a painting of a Campbell's Soup Can, but some people call that art too. But the fact is, if the only way you can pass at a race track, is dive bombing into the corner and rooting someone up out of the groove (see: old Bristol), or just straight up hitting them until their car is too out of shape to stay on the bottom of the track (you know, the ONLY groove at the old Bristol), that's NOT racing. That's the same kind of bullshit I can do for $20 at the local go kart track. Apparently that inane non-driving BS sells to the general public. But I still get a buzz over watching two cars drag race off of four to the line at the finish after racing each other side by side for several laps. It just bugs me that liking RACING puts me in the minority on a website that is supposed to be a place for RACE FANS to gather. Oh well. 153. Mr X posted: 08.31.2011 - 1:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) yay, 5 days until atlanta 154. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.31.2011 - 11:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talk4Tar, do you even read our posts? Where do either of us say "the bump n run was an art"? The art we are speaking of is the process of passing somebody cleanly (the way 99% of passes on the Old Bristol were made btw) on a one groove track. We are talking about the art of getting a run off the corner enough so you can pull to the inside, put your nose inside their quarter panel far enough that you can take the inside line going into the next corner forcing the outside driver to either concede the spot, try to run the outside in a futile effort, or wreck himself trying to cut you off (see Sterling Marlin in '87). Trying to set up that pass, to me, is breathtaking. Because the guy in front knows the guy behind is faster, and knows what he will try to do. Watching guys compete against each other for the same real estate thrills me more than 3 lane racing. But back to you Talk4Tar, you are blatently ignoring our points. Such as: "So, you can say that the Old Bristol was great because of the Bump and Run" That shows me you haven't read our posts. 155. Talk4Tar posted: 08.31.2011 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "154. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.31.11 - 11:43 am" Yes, I do read your posts. And the other posts in this thread... do you? Saying 99% of passes at the old Bristol were clean is a wee bit of hyperbole, and you're delusional if you don't agree. The Old Bristol simply was not a racers track. If you had a fast car, you could MAYBE pass MOST cars cleanly. You know what's way more breathtaking than watching the rare clean pass on a one groove track? Watching two cars race side by side, not making contact once, for five, ten, fifteen laps. One car has the speed, one car has the momentum. They fight for the best entrance into the corner, they drag race off the corner to the next one, just to repeat this lap, after lap, after lap. Never touching, never wrecking. No need to do those things (unless you're some nondriver). THAT is breathtaking. And I am, reading your posts, sir. I'm not Bronco. You were talking about how passing at the Old Bristol was an art. I was also talking about the passing at the Old Bristol. Which even in the cleanest of ways you mentioned, was still rather boring when you consider the the racing at Bristol now. Maybe one corners worth of side-by-side racing versus several laps of it? Yeah, cool. You take your "art" and I'll take the New Bristol. Or, like I said before, for $20 I can create your own personal Old Bristol-style race. 156. Anonymous posted: 08.31.2011 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Andy Lally's #71 car had Interstate Moving Services on the hood and Shotwell-Schulte Ventures on the quarter panels as sponsors. 157. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 08.31.2011 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see Kevin Harvick is being mature as always. Still talking about the feud between he and Kyle, and even having the decency to call Kyle a "douchebag"! Kyle doesn't have the best karma either, but this shows that Harvick isn't really putting all his focus on winning the championship. I've crossed two off my list for this year (Harvick and Kyle). 158. 1995z71 posted: 08.31.2011 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) post 157, thats very true in my book, if harvick & busch would just focus on the championship & not each other & their teams & all that other mess theyre involved in they might actually win a championship. til then J.J. who rarely does anything outside of cup keeps winning the cup. 159. 18fan posted: 08.31.2011 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem with Bristol now is that it pretty much still is a one groove racetrack, just the groove is now the top and the bottom is not as much of a disadvantage as the top used to be. If you are in a 4 car pack at Bristol and try to pass the front car on the bottom, there is a very good chance that you will end up being passed by the two cars right behind you. If you watch the way Jeff Gordon passed Kenseth for the lead most of the time he had to drive up the hill and get right next to Kenseth and then run down the hill off the corner to get the spot. The high side is just way too good and its too easy to hold a spot against a faster car is you are on the high side. 160. BON GORDON posted: 08.31.2011 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar annouced today that Jeff Gordon is also a lock in the chase. Im sure everyone figured he was gonna make it anyway. But congrats to BIG DADDY on making his 7th chase. 161. Mr X posted: 09.01.2011 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The problem with Bristol now is that it pretty much still is a one groove racetrack, just the groove is now the top and the bottom is not as much of a disadvantage as the top used to be. If you are in a 4 car pack at Bristol and try to pass the front car on the bottom, there is a very good chance that you will end up being passed by the two cars right behind you. If you watch the way Jeff Gordon passed Kenseth for the lead most of the time he had to drive up the hill and get right next to Kenseth and then run down the hill off the corner to get the spot. The high side is just way too good and its too easy to hold a spot against a faster car is you are on the high side." Thank you 18fan, for being one to realize whats wrong with the new bristol, and what many people fail to see, in 2007 bristol wanted side by side racing, the problem was they went too far, there is a six degree spread between the bottom lane and the top lane, 24 down low, 30 up high. IMO there is only one track that has been reconfigured in the last 15 years that has produced better racing since the operation, and thats homestead, they hit a homerun there, its perfect, like the old atlanta, I think they should run 500 mile races there, especially being as its the season finale, but bristol has 3 problems, the pit road segments, an easy fix, and if they're going to keep the progressive banking, 36 degrees at the top, 33-34 at the bottom, a 2-3 degree spread, a responsible amount, and when they repaved bristol they added a bottom lane to the track, they need to put the track back to being 40 feet in width like it was. Unless someone is trying to pass someone everyone runs up high, the sign of a good track, is when at any point in a run, people are still running different lines because thats where their car is best, in order to pass on the high side at the old bristol, you needed a really good car, passing on the bottom at the new bristol is pretty much the same story. Bristol used to offer a unique style of racing where everyone fought over the same real estate, in order to pass someone without contact you needed to beat them out of the corner, down the 650 foot straightaway, and into the next corner. It came at the expense of lots of crashes, caution laps, and tempers flaring, however it drew 160,000 people to the track for more then 50 races in a row, the new bristol has much more side by side racing, and green flag racing, but it offers nothing that we cant see anywhere else, I personally would prefer to see some variety in my 36 races, I didn't 2 single file drama filled races a year, but if bristol put in a responsible amount of progressive banking, and took away the bottom lane, they could find a happy medium, a race unlike any other, but not completely forgettable like most of the races there since the reconfiguration have been. 4 days until the greatest track there is, the Atlanta Motor Speedway, a tire grinder, and 500 long, long miles. 162. Ryan posted: 09.01.2011 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "4 days until the greatest track there is, the Atlanta Motor Speedway, a tire grinder, and 500 long, long miles." You're right, can't wait... 163. 18fan posted: 09.01.2011 - 2:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) SPEED is doing the next episode of The Day, with this one focusing on the 1992 Hooter's 500, airing today at 8 ET. Should be an incredible watch. 164. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.01.2011 - 2:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "4 days until the greatest track there is, the Atlanta Motor Speedway, a tire grinder, and 500 long, long miles." I agree, oddly enough I always enjoy Atlanta races while I am lukewarm about Texas and Charlotte. "SPEED is doing the next episode of The Day, with this one focusing on the 1992 Hooter's 500" At least this time they will be focusing on an awesome race which did NOT include a tragedy. 165. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.01.2011 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad to see the love for Atlanta. I can't believe how excited I am for that race. Still sucks they took one of its dates. I would much rather have them take away Charlotte's Fall date, and I live about 1 hour from that track. Atlanta out, Kentucky in is one of the worst date swaps ever in terms of fun racing. California for Darlington will always be king of horrible decisions, with Texas for Rockingham being second. I am looking forward to the 1992 Atlanta documentary. The first two were done very well (with the exception of Mikey's "why me?" pandering in Dale's doc). They even made the one about The King's 200th win interesting, quite a feat considering that story has been retold and relived a million times. The greatest points race ever, the biggest underdog (or should I say "Underbird") champion in Cup history, Petty's last race, Gordon's first race, etc. Can't wait. News item: Rick Hendrick has just signed up for 5 more years of futility, through 2017. 166. Mr X posted: 09.01.2011 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I agree, oddly enough I always enjoy Atlanta races while I am lukewarm about Texas and Charlotte." I agree, Charlotte is like any track in the last 15 years, they repaved it, and now its worse, before 2004, I would've honestly said that the Charlotte races, especially the 600 were some of the best races of the year. The track was perfect, you could run high or low, both lines were very equal, and the track seemed to have the perfect balance between the effect of clean air, and the effect of fresh tires, not to mention all the bumps, especially the bumps 2/3rds of the way down the backstretch, those bumps made the cars look like they were going 300mph, but then in 2005 they levigated Charlotte, had huge tire problems, 37 cautions across the 2 races, and repaved the track in 2006. Its getting better, but its still not as good as it was. Plus like Atlanta the track has history, it's been on the schedule since 1960. Texas bugs me, it has a good balance of tires vs clean air, but you still cant run anywhere you want, especially off turn 2 because the banking falls off so early, plus even though it is a different racetrack, it still bugs me that we need to race at different racetracks that all look the same, plus Texas has no history, its only been on the circuit since 1997. I know its a huge market, but I still dont like going to Texas twice a year. Michigan is being unnecessarily ruined as I type, Phoenix didn't need to be repaved, they ruined Daytona, Talladega, just as Vegas was starting to age, they repaved it, and now IMO its the worst track there is, or at least with this years tire, Kentucky is like Vegas, post #161 describes Bristol, Kansas is being repaved after this year, and while Kansas is only okay to begin with, repaving the joint certainly wont help. "SPEED is doing the next episode of The Day, with this one focusing on the 1992 Hooter's 500" I will definatley make an effort to watch that. 167. Mr X posted: 09.01.2011 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Atlanta is like an endangered species in NA$CAR, very few real racetracks are left, Atlanta is almost the last one, and if they ever try to repave the place, I will drive down from my home in Canada, and try to sabotage their efforts. Who is with me! 168. Cooper posted: 09.01.2011 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 167. Mr X posted: 09.01.11 - 2:36 pm We can carpool! I'm with ya. 169. Matt G posted: 09.01.2011 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boy Rick Hendrick sure knows how to shoot the B.S. doesn't he? Check out this quote on the Jr. extension today. "My feelings haven't changed since the day he first signed with us. I'm committed as ever to putting him in the best possible situation to be successful and compete for wins and championships" This move is not about winning at all (He has JJ for that). This is about keeping the cash cow in the barn for the better part of this decade. Since joining that team in 2008, Jr. has exactly ONE WIN IN 132 RACES and has NEVER finished higher than 12th in the points!!! In Hendrick cars, that's an embarrassment! As long as Jr. is beinging Hendrick money and JJ is winning trophies, I'd imagine that where that 88 car is running on the track is pretty low on Hndrick's priority list. 170. Talon64 posted: 09.01.2011 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since Dale Jr. joined HMS in 2008, he's accounted for 3.3% of HMS's wins, 12.2% of top 5's, 15.7% of top 10's, 9.7% of poles and 11.4% of laps led. On a 4 car team you'd like to be 25% or better in all those categories, so overall he's not even halfway to meeting expectations. 171. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.01.2011 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mr X, be sure to stop by NC on the way down. I agree 100% about Texas. Everybody makes such a big deal about it, but with no notable history or good racing, it is just another weekend, especially now that they have two dates, and now that they are both at night. And you are right, repaving Michigan is a huge mistake, the tires Goodyear will have to come out with to withstand those speeds will be round anvils. And repaving/reconfiguring Phoenix is a HUGE mistake. Again, it was providing fun racing as it was, why change it? Did we learn nothing from Bristol? "Since joining that team in 2008, Jr. has exactly ONE WIN IN 132 RACES and has NEVER finished higher than 12th in the points!!!" Yeesh! 172. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.01.2011 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I have an idea. SPEED should do a "The Day" special every week for every track in the remaining races of the year. Here are my picks. The Day: Richmond 1986 They were just trying to get a two year head start on tearing down the old Fairgrounds track for the new version. Plus the King's Son gets his first win by passing 4 cars on the last lap! Sure, they were all smashed into the wall at the time, but it still counts as a pass, just look at the Loop Data! Oh wait, they wouldn't have that for another 20 years. The Day: Chicagoland 2001 On Saturday, a dynasty is launched, and in case Texas and California and Homestead (the old flat version) didn't let us know in the previous few years, brand new intermediates sure are fun, aren't they? The Day: New Hampshire 2000 Restrictor plates on a flat one mile. What could possibly be bad about that? The Day: Dover 2004 NASCAR officiating at its finest. It is normal for 400 mile races to take over 4 hours, right? The Day: Kansas 2007 Crashes and darkness and rain, oh my! The Day: Charlotte 2005 The joy of Levigation. Nothing like a 5 and 1/2 hour race. The Day: Martinsville 2000 The week after the passing of NASCAR pioneer and patriarch of its first family, Lee Petty, Michael Waltrip finally breaks through for his first Martinsville Top 5, only to have it over shadowed by Lee's passing. Highlighted by clips of Mikey saying "Why me? I finally break through to get a Top 5 at a track I suck at, even by my low standards, yet I don't get a chance to celebrate it. How am I supposed to feel about that? I don't know, I don't know why that had to happen to me!" The Day: Talladega 1986 Somebody stole the pace car! The Day: Texas 1998 One year after major issues with water seepage on the track, and a one groove surface that produced a huge first lap crash, NASCAR's triumphant return visit to the Lone Star state produces major issues with water seepage on the track, and a one groove surface that produced a huge first lap crash. This time it takes out fan favorites Earnhardt and Gordon. Learning from history? Overrated. The Day: Phoenix 1998 It never rains in the desert. The Day: Homestead 2003 Hey, if us Earnhardt fans have to watch the last lap of the 1990 Daytona 500 over and over again, y'all Awesome Bill fans need to see this one again! 173. Mr X posted: 09.01.2011 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the tires at the MIS next year will be harder then the racetrack itself. 174. Red posted: 09.01.2011 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been thinking... In 2003, Goodyear built rock hard tires, resulting in a bunch of fuel mileage / track position races. Then, in 2004, they started bringing much softer tires, and the racing improved dramatically. The car itself did not change at all between `03 and `04. 2011 has been a mirror image of 2003, where tires don't wear and track position is everything. Since the car isn't changing next year, why can't Goodyear start building softer tires again? 2004 proved that it works, and I see no reason why they can't do it. Seriously, does anybody know why Goodyear insists on bringing rock hard tires to the track? Everyone (drivers, crews, fans) want softer tires, so why doesn't Goodyear oblige? I'm honestly curious, because it seems like such a no-brainer. 175. Red posted: 09.01.2011 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a related note, why do all these tracks insist on repaving every ten years? The surfaces and Michigan and Kansas are in decent shape, it's not like there's potholes and pieces of asphalt coming apart. They could probably race another 10 years at Michigan and 15 years at Kansas before repaving. Not to mention the tracks would save millions of $$$. But, NASCAR's decisions rarely make sense, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised. 176. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.01.2011 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just 7 minutes into "The Day" and I already have chills seeing the old school ESPN footage and graphics. Those were the days. 177. Matt G posted: 09.01.2011 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ post 172 DSFF, that post made me laugh till my sides hurt. Well done - Alhough I think the fall race from 2005 at Charlotte (Tires go BOOM!!!) was even worse than the Coke 6,000 (or so it seemed) from May. 178. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.01.2011 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fall race was much worse. Luckily I was at home for that one. I could get up and walk the dog for a little while. I was at the Coke 6000 (love the nickname). 179. Cooper posted: 09.01.2011 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "174. Red posted: 09.01.11 - 7:29 pm" Because they are scared shitless about their tires wearing too quickly and having a 2008 Brickyard 400 situation. Goodyear is playing it safe with their NASCAR program. It's either that, or NASCAR is asking for harder tires and Goodyear is just obliging. Either way it sucks. I'm with ya 100%. Goodyear needs to bring a softer compound tire to the racetrack. Please. I'd love to see tires wear out in 40 laps and make the drivers use their abilities. It's one of the many reasons that fans love Atlanta Motor Speedway. Because of tire wear. 180. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.01.2011 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem is, as Cooper alluded to, Goodyear is afraid for their image. Teams are going to run aggressive setups that punish the tires. If they run softer tires, that edge teams try to ride comes a lot closer, and there will be more blowouts. Goodyear is afraid people will see those blowouts and think they can't make good tires. I say that is complete crap. If Kurt Busch were to blow an engine in Atlanta, is anyone gonna say "Gee, Pennzoil can't make a good motor oil"? Of course not. Racing is about pushing your equipment to the very edge of its breaking point, and occasionally they will break. It happens, Goodyear needs to quit being so afraid. Same deal with the unnecessary repaving of tracks. Ever since the 2010 Daytona 500, every track is afraid they will be embarrassed by their track coming apart. Again, these cars punish everything, including the racing surface. Do we really think less of Daytona because they had a pothole develop on a 31 year old surface? 181. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.01.2011 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kudos to SPEED, they knocked another one out of the park. That was outstanding. What I have noticed about their documentaries is that they are all substance. There are very little gimmicks. Just great stock footage and photos. Great backstory. And mostly using interviews from people that were there. They do an excellent job of highlighting the emotion involved, the real emotion, not the made for TV garbage. Seeing Tim Brewer and Larry Mac, nearly 20 years later, still obviously stung by losing that championship really hits home. And to see Larry, and Paul Andrews and Peter Jellen still get choked up when speaking of their fallen drivers and friends is very powerful. To me, the documentary and that race, seeing how it was covered then, shows what was right with NASCAR in the past, and what is turning fans off nowadays. Watching the old footage from 1992, even as those involved knew damn well this was something that would be remembered, they let the on track action tell the story. So real. So genuine. Never once did anyone say "drama" or "history". They allowed that race to be exactly what it was: a race. And a championship. And a damn compelling one. No cha$e, no lucky dogs or wave arounds, no broadcasting gimmicks cliches, primitive (by today's standards) graphics, just pure sport and emotion. Wonderful memories of a wonderful era. And I really want to commend SPEED for one thing, and this may sound odd coming from me. I am glad that Dale Earnhardt was never mentioned once. Too often, I feel like when speaking of the past, everybody has to tie it to Dale in some way. The fact is he is a part of enough of NASCAR's major moments, and he was a complete non factor in that season and that race. He crashed out on his own, a fitting end to a frustrating season. Maybe we are finally being able to let go a bit. It seems like, since his passing, we have tried to hold on to him as tightly as possible because we just don't want him to be gone. We feel like if we let go for a second, we will lose him forever. The fact is he is gone, but his memories are still here, and those aren't going anywhere. So we can tell stories like this without having to bring him in some way. Maybe all the hullabaloo over the 10th "anniversary" of his death made us say "whoa, we really need to let go". Maybe now he can finally rest in peace, and nobody would be happier about that than Dale. 182. Smokefan05 posted: 09.01.2011 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, quite a conversation going on here. "On a related note, why do all these tracks insist on repaving every ten years? The surfaces and Michigan and Kansas are in decent shape, it's not like there's potholes and pieces of asphalt coming apart. They could probably race another 10 years at Michigan and 15 years at Kansas before repaving. Not to mention the tracks would save millions of $$$." MIS said that they inspected the track (X-ray, whatelse have you) and they said it needed it. MIS got repaved 15 years ago and anyone who doesn't live in Michigan has little clue is how rough the winters are here(and the rest of the weather for that matter). And MIS said that they had a small amount of progressive banking in the track that wasn't noticed before (maybe the aging over that 15 years did it, i don't know). My only concern is the speed when the Cup boys come back there (I'm suprised that people are actually defending the racetrack, cuz i thought that "fans" said it produced 'boring' racing) Kansas i agree with, the track is 10 years old and can go 10 more years. "But, NASCAR's decisions rarely make sense, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised." "fans" complaining rarely makes sense, so i'm not suprised. ;-) "It's one of the many reasons that fans love Atlanta Motor Speedway. Because of tire wear." Well AMS is going to be re-paved in our live time. just saying. 2008 BY 400 is totally Goodyears fault. They knew the COT would punish tires more then the POSCOY. They dropped the ball. "Do we really think less of Daytona because they had a pothole develop on a 31 year old surface?" Some peoeple through DIS under the bus. Any racetrack like DIS should have known that something was going to happen after 30 years of racing on the surface. But the good thing about racetracks like, DIS, Tally, MIS, Darlington is the weather and climate. they help wear the tracks out when NASCAR isn't racing there. I'm willing to bet MIS will wear inside of 5 years with Michigans weather. 183. potatosalad48 posted: 09.01.2011 - 11:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I went to MIS recently and from the stands, it was clear that the track crews had patched up the surface in many areas, especially in turns 1 & 2. After 15 years of Michigan weather, the track has worn out a ton. 184. Mr X posted: 09.01.2011 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The best thing about that era of NASCAR racing was the governing body knew what they were trying to be, auto racing is a sport, the drivers and crew members are athletes, but auto racing isn't a conventional, run of the mill, stick and ball sport, and its drivers aren't conventional athletes. Auto racing is a unique sport that appeals to a unique group of people. Drivers are unique athletes that a unique group of people idolize and cheer for. Sports fans dont watch auto racing, they watch regular sports, race fans watch auto racing, some people are fans of both, and thats fine, but Nascar is trying to sell itself as a regular sport, and its regular fans, NASCAR is trying to compare itself to the NFL, NASCAR is trying to sell Jimmie Johnson or Carl Edwards as Tom Brady or Sindey Crosbey. And thats just plain stupid NASCAR needs to accept that there are fewer race fans out there then regular sports fans. Nascar should be damn proud that they are second only to the NFL is popularity in the United States, but they still shouldn't be trying to compete with them, its like Chevrolet trying to compete with Boeing in the transportation industry, they're both involved, but in different ways. NASCAR should be trying to compare itself to other forms of auto racing, in which it has been ahead for a long time, at least in North America. NASCAR has had to abandon its roots because they are trying to appeal to sports fans. A race fan can enjoy 300 laps straight of green flag racing, but it would be difficult to make a non race fan sit through that. In order to keep the non race fans happy NASCAR has to constantly manipulate races in order to make sure everything has that cheap dramatic ending. We now reset the points standings with 10 races to go because we need anyone of 10 drivers to be able to win the championship at the end of the year, I like Brad Keselowski, but I find it pretty sad that depending on how these next 2 races go, if Brad wins Atlanta and Richmond, and makes it inside the top 10, he could start the chase with a 3 point lead on Busch, & Harvick, and the worst he could start the chase is 18 points out of the lead, and I am aware that he has been one of the hottest drivers for the last 10 races but he still spent the first third of the season digging himself a rut. I find it absurd that he is over 140 points, almost 3 full races out of the points lead but if he can keep it up he will have a shot at the title. Kevin Harvick is giving up 10 points a week to the leaders, but in 2 weeks all will be forgotton. In the 36 races of 2010 Denny Hamlin had 8 wins, but only 14 top 5's, & 18 top 10's, 12 finishes of 16th or worse, and 8 finishes outside the top 30. IMO the guy who wins the title should be the guy who has the best balance of being fast and flawless, 8 wins doesn't make up for finishing outside the top 15 one in every three races, under the real points system Kevin won and Denny was 3rd over 400 points back where he should've been. This is the top division of the most competitive racing series on earth, we need to seperate the men from the boys, but instead NASCAR is turning this into an equal opportunity series where teams flaws are ironed over and forgotton and can still win the biggest prize. When Jeff Gordon won the title in 2001 by 350 points, he earned that big point lead, by being better then his competition. We have invisible debris cautions, lucky dogs, and wave arounds to keep every car on the lead lap, and rock hard rubber to make sure that track position and strategy decides all races instead of outright speed. Not to mention real cautions are still thrown way to easily.(Dale Jr's half spin at Kansas) If a caution comes out with 2 laps to go, why does 2nd place deserve a shot at the win because a driver back in the field crashed. End the damn race under caution, 1998 Daytona 500 is considered one of the greatest races ever, and it ended under caution. I also dont care for double file restarts because its neutered the all star race. I like the "boys have at it", but keep it off the damn racetrack, some drivers cant handle it. I would love to see one lap aggresive driving penalties for drivers who cause unnecessary cautions, you're ruining equipment, and ruining the flow of the race. What Kyle Busch did in the Bristol truck races was complete bullshit, after he came across Elliott's nose he stayed on the track in his crashed vehicle potentially dropping real debris, just to spin Elliott out, breaking the flow of the race and potentially collecting others, Vickers and Stewart at Sonoma was the same way, I like a little beating and banging but drivers should have to use their heads, I can't believe some of the bullshit NASCAR puts up with, if 2 drivers have a score to settle, settle it afterwards, helmets off, crews stand back. The constant media attention is annoying as well they jerk themselves off over every little thing that happens, they milk the goat until the bitter end, and blow things way out of proportion, the sport deserves half of the ass kissing it got 20 years ago, yet it gets double. A marketable driver is more important then a good driver. I miss the days when everything was automobile related, all the race sponsers, and car sponsers. Just my opinion. 185. Red posted: 09.02.2011 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mr. X post 184, I couldn't have said it better. Amen, brother. And Smokefan, I don't know why you get so upset with fans who are willing to challenge the decisions NASCAR makes. The only reason we "complain" is because the powers-that-be are turning our beloved sport into something that's much harder to love. When people complain about politics and/or the President, do you think that means they hate America? No, they complain about those things because they love America and care about what happens to their country. It's the same with NASCAR fans. 186. Cooper posted: 09.02.2011 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "184. Mr X posted: 09.01.11 - 11:40 pm" Winner Winner Chicken Dinner. Thumbs Up to everything you mentioned. 187. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.02.2011 - 1:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The best thing about that era of NASCAR racing was the governing body knew what they were trying to be, auto racing is a sport, the drivers and crew members are athletes, but auto racing isn't a conventional, run of the mill, stick and ball sport, and its drivers aren't conventional athletes. Auto racing is a unique sport that appeals to a unique group of people. Drivers are unique athletes that a unique group of people idolize and cheer for" I am glad you mentioned this, because I agree with it 100%. NASCAR in my mind is actually more grueling than normal sports (such as basketball, football, baseball, etc.) because at least in those other sports, your team won't always put you in the game, thus giving you time to sit down and cool off. NASCAR drivers are at it for 3 hours straight, sometimes more. They can't stop, unless something goes wrong with their car or they crash. And about your unique athlete point, I've noticed this too. Not too many of the common people are NASCAR fans, at least not where I live. "If a caution comes out with 2 laps to go, why does 2nd place deserve a shot at the win because a driver back in the field crashed. End the damn race under caution, 1998 Daytona 500 is considered one of the greatest races ever, and it ended under caution. I also dont care for double file restarts because its neutered the all star race." I never understood what made fans so angry that races ended under caution. It's not like it happened very often. Anyone remember the 2002 Pepsi 400, or the 2004 Aaron's 499? The way the fans behaved over those races ending under caution was TOTALLY RIDICULOUS! There was no reason to throw shit out onto the track. But regarding the double file restarts, I feel they were needed in order to prevent slower lapped cars from messing things up for the leaders. The negative side effect from this is the wave-around rule, which lets cars get a lap back simply by staying out under caution. 188. Smokefan05 posted: 09.02.2011 - 2:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And Smokefan, I don't know why you get so upset with fans who are willing to challenge the decisions NASCAR makes. The only reason we "complain" is because the powers-that-be are turning our beloved sport into something that's much harder to love." It isn't like NASCAR is going to listen to you, me or anyone else on what is "wrong" with the sport. BTW i'm not the only one who thinks that "fans" are part of the problem: "Couldn't agree more with you on the whole deal with the fans. It even seems that some fans try to have it both ways sometimes. For example, when the weepers appeared at Fontana last year, NASCAR tried to get the track ready to race again, fans said that it was an effort in futility, then when it rained at Bristol for qualifying last year and it looked like it wouldn't let up, lots of fans complained by saying NASCAR should of waited. There are plenty of other examples of this as well, from the tracks, to the cars, to the way NASCAR runs the races. NASCAR hasn't made the best decisions, but at the rate things are going, it's not going to just be NASCAR that kills itself, it will be the fans that will help in doing the killing as well." From 2009 Yahoo mailbag (from Ricky Carven i believe) Hell even some people on here AGREE with me on this (even on the SPEED boards too). "fans" are going there own damage to the sport with the endless complaining and NASCAR chooses to listen to it. "When people complain about politics and/or the President, do you think that means they hate America? No, they complain about those things because they love America and care about what happens to their country. It's the same with NASCAR fans." If people care about America then why in the hell do people elect the same dumba$$es into our highest offices in the country? I'll tell you why, they believe anything todays politicions say and then elect them in. "by the people for the people" that saying no longer has an meaning anymore. Politicions today only care about themselves and not what is best for the people. Our founding fathers are rolling over in there graves with how bad this country is being run and if they were alive today, they'd be facepalming themselves back into the grave. Todays elected officals are as crooked as a Viringia fence and its sicking to what has happened to this country. Its a shell of its former shelf. If the following statement ^ above offends anyone then i apologize. I'll stop while i have some sanity left, and continue later. 189. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.02.2011 - 8:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mr X, that was perfect. I agree with everything said. I even agree about Brad and the championship. And I am glad to see others agree that GWCs are unnecessary. Too many gimmicks. And Red, you nailed it too. Smokefan, we elect these people because we have no better options. Every politician is the same. They care about their special interest groups that paid for their campaigns, and that is it. I don't know if you watch South Park or not, but they have an episode called Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich that hits that topic perfectly. It describes every election since 88 perfectly. 190. Matt G posted: 09.02.2011 - 9:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with almost everything Mr. X said but I must admit, the one "gimmick" that I'm a sucker for is the GWC. My opinion on this really gathered momentum in 2003 when Nascar eliminated racing back to the line. Before that time, when a driver crashed with just a couple of laps to go, you would still get to watch the leaders RACE back to the line. Even though the event ended under the yellow, it still concluded with a "mad dash" back to the start/finish line with the yellow flag acting like the checkered (A last lap with multiple laps to go if you will) - This was especially true in the 1998 Daytona 500 you mentioned; sure it ended behind the pace car, but the scene you remember is the RACE off turn 4 - Earnhardt using Rick Mast as a pick while Bobby Labonte and Jeremy Mayfield beat the stuffing out of each in what was now only a battle for second place. It would have been very different if that race occured after 2003 though. Once Nascar started freezing the field for safty reasons, I began to feel cheated as a fan when races ended under caution - This was because it all just ended in one moment - No more RACING back to the line. It had a very different feel and made me hate watching a race for four hours only to see a potential great fight for the win spoiled because the guy running 27th couldn't keep his car on track. It finally reached a crux in the 2004 Aarons 499 at Talladega when Dale Jr. and Jeff Gordon appeared ready to clash in what was shaping up to be one of the best finishes of decade - TROUBLE!!!!! - HUH!?!?!? - Brian Vickers spins behind them - RACE OVER!!!! No last lap battle between the sport's two brightest stars, not even a race back to the line; just a monumentally unsatisfying conclusion to an otherwise outstanding race. To this day I wonder what would have happened if that battle were allowed to play out. You ask, "If a caution comes out with 2 laps to go, why does 2nd place deserve a shot at the win because a driver back in the field crashed?" I ask, why shouldn't he? I DESPISE the idea of someone out of contention ruining A) the chance for a win the guy running in second with two laps to go worked his tail off to get in position for, and B) the fans getting cheated out of potentially historic finishes like the Jr./Gordon battle from the 04 Arrons 499. I agree with everything else you brought to the table though Mr. X. Tremendous post!!! 191. Jeffrey posted: 09.02.2011 - 10:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Yeah because Dave Moody knows nothing despite his years of experience, and the fact that he is a favorite of Ken Squier who I thought whose opinion you would value as a supposedly old school fan. Also, to prove that it's not about having guests, as I type this Greg Biffle just finished arguing with 2 hosts. Here's something to assure that people will change their minds. Steven Wallace [Mr. Popular on this site] went on record to say he prefers to race the old Bristol. 192. Mr X posted: 09.02.2011 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I love that episode of South Park 193. Smokefan05 posted: 09.02.2011 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Smokefan, we elect these people because we have no better options. Every politician is the same. They care about their special interest groups that paid for their campaigns, and that is it. I don't know if you watch South Park or not, but they have an episode called Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich that hits that topic perfectly. It describes every election since 88 perfectly." Here is another option, the people don't vote and mob D.C until the officals do what we want. I'm willing to bet that in our life time, something to that effect will happen. "Sports fans dont watch auto racing, they watch regular sports, race fans watch auto racing, some people are fans of both, and thats fine, but Nascar is trying to sell itself as a regular sport, and its regular fans, NASCAR is trying to compare itself to the NFL, NASCAR is trying to sell Jimmie Johnson or Carl Edwards as Tom Brady or Sindey Crosbey. And thats just plain stupid" I have little issue with NASCAR marketing its drivers with the likes of Tom Brady or Sid "the Kid" Crosbey. Why? Because they are better then them by a wide margin (even tho Hockey players and Soccer players are a close second on my list of athelets, NFL players aren't atheletes). I don't think its stupid, its called getting more fans and every major sporting organization tries it, NASCAR should too. Marketing to just race fans makes no business sense and NASCAR is a business (and yet some "fans" still don't understand that). "NASCAR should be trying to compare itself to other forms of auto racing, in which it has been ahead for a long time, at least in North America. NASCAR has had to abandon its roots because they are trying to appeal to sports fans. A race fan can enjoy 300 laps straight of green flag racing, but it would be difficult to make a non race fan sit through that. In order to keep the non race fans happy NASCAR has to constantly manipulate races in order to make sure everything has that cheap dramatic ending." It isn't just non race fans, there are NASCAR fans that have short attention spans. THere are some NASCAR "fans" that claim just about every single race is boring, and that it needs 4,000 wrecks, 6,000 and 10,000 lead changes in order for it to be "good." Hell i saw this comment on a 2011 Aaroms 499 finish video "i want 3 wide for 188 laps." Guess what? That comment has like 5 thumbs up. What do you say to that? NASCAR listening to the "fans" is one of the biggest mistakes they have ever made. "I like the "boys have at it", but keep it off the damn racetrack, some drivers cant handle it. I would love to see one lap aggresive driving penalties for drivers who cause unnecessary cautions, you're ruining equipment, and ruining the flow of the race. What Kyle Busch did in the Bristol truck races was complete bullshit, after he came across Elliott's nose he stayed on the track in his crashed vehicle potentially dropping real debris, just to spin Elliott out, breaking the flow of the race and potentially collecting others, Vickers and Stewart at Sonoma was the same way, I like a little beating and banging but drivers should have to use their heads, I can't believe some of the bullshit NASCAR puts up with, if 2 drivers have a score to settle, settle it afterwards, helmets off, crews stand back." NASCAR should give the drivers 4 options with 'boys have at it': 1. wreck a race speeds (fines and possible suspensions should happen) 2. payback under yellow (as long as someone else isn't taken out, no issue) 3. payback on the cool down lap (same as above) 4. fist fight after the race (no fines and no suspensions, sort of treat it like a fight in hockey). "It finally reached a crux in the 2004 Aarons 499 at Talladega when Dale Jr. and Jeff Gordon appeared ready to clash in what was shaping up to be one of the best finishes of decade - TROUBLE!!!!! - HUH!?!?!? - Brian Vickers spins behind them - RACE OVER!!!! No last lap battle between the sport's two brightest stars, not even a race back to the line; just a monumentally unsatisfying conclusion to an otherwise outstanding race. To this day I wonder what would have happened if that battle were allowed to play out." There was like 5 laps to go in that race when BV spun, anybody in the top 10 had a shot to win that race if BV didn't spin. And thanks to Jr. nation, NASCAR got trashed by the media and other race fans. "The constant media attention is annoying as well they jerk themselves off over every little thing that happens, they milk the goat until the bitter end, and blow things way out of proportion, the sport deserves half of the ass kissing it got 20 years ago, yet it gets double." The media today is horrible at there jobs, its bad. This i agree with 100%. 194. LordLowe posted: 09.02.2011 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well your dammed if you do and your dammed if you don't and that's my opinion on the situation here. 195. 18fan posted: 09.02.2011 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRandPenskeGuy, I totally agree about your point about endurance. As a high school baseball player and a fan of all the major stick and ball sports(although racing is my #1 passion), I get tired of coaches all the time give players days off for "rest". You don't hear Carl Edwards being "tired" and sitting out a race. These drivers race sick, and unless they are about to barf, the drivers will suck it up for 500 miles or however long the race is. 196. Red posted: 09.03.2011 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR has always been a niche sport, passionately loved by the ones who follow it, and ignored by everyone else. That's why I think it's counterproductive for the suits in Daytona to focus so much on marketing and the "casual fan" at the expense of the die-hards. Unlike football, basketball, and baseball, NASCAR only appeals to a narrow band of the population, and the sanctioning body would be well served to realize this and stop trying to compete with the stick-and-ball sports. I live in a city of roughly 100,000 people, and I may very well be the only NASCAR fan here. I don't give a damn if regular sports fans like it or watch it; I will love it regardless. I think most NASCAR fans have the same attitude. In fact, I kind of enjoy getting to follow a unique sport that few people truly appreciate. As further proof that marketing to the casual fan doesn't work, consider this: I work at a Toyota dealership, and we have tons of TRD and JGR stuff all over the place - posters, shirts, hats, die-casts, etc. But since I've worked there, I have never heard a SINGLE WORD spoken about NASCAR, despite being inundated with NASCAR marketing. Kyle Busch could win 15 races in a row and I bet nobody would say a word about it. The point is, you can't make people care about something they aren't interested in. I hope Brian and friends eventually accept this and stop trying to force NASCAR into the mainstream, because that's not what it's been, and that's not what it'll ever be. 197. Anonymous posted: 09.04.2011 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm going to go ahead and say it, I think Keselowski's team is bending the rules. It's not like he just suddenly became a top 3 driver, it's obvious his team has found some extra speed somewhere. That's the only way to explain his current run these last 4 races. They have a leg up on something that no one else has, but they are peaking too early. And I'd keep a look out for a post-race inspection penalty sometime soon, as I'm sure NASCAR is probably getting suspicious. They'll alter the rules to put a stop to whatever the #2 team is doing, and Keselowski will fall back to earth. 198. the_man posted: 09.06.2011 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on a 20th place finish: "We just didn't get the finish we wanted; we've got to do a little bit better job when we get to the track on Friday. Our team worked and made changes on the car the entire weekend and it just couldn't get to where it was good all the way around the track. We had an ignition box deal that hurt us and cost us a lap, but we were able to take the wave around and get back up on the lead lap. Just a tough day for our UPS team here in Bristol." 199. Talk4Tar posted: 09.13.2011 - 2:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm going to go ahead and say it, I think Keselowski's team is bending the rules. It's not like he just suddenly became a top 3 driver, it's obvious his team has found some extra speed somewhere. That's the only way to explain his current run these last 4 races. They have a leg up on something that no one else has, but they are peaking too early. And I'd keep a look out for a post-race inspection penalty sometime soon, as I'm sure NASCAR is probably getting suspicious. They'll alter the rules to put a stop to whatever the #2 team is doing, and Keselowski will fall back to earth." Ah, gotta love a fan in same grain as the Earnhardt fans of the late-90s. If my driver is getting beat, it's because someone else is cheating. Funny stuff. 200. Terminator posted: 10.28.2011 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another snoozer at the track formally known as thunder valley.Bristol and Dega used to be by far the two most exciting races,now they're two of the most boring and predictable.Sad. 201. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #50 T.J. Bell & #55 J.J. Yeley Out using fastest 43: #14 Tony Stewart & #32 Terry Labonte 202. Robert Nelson posted: 07.12.2012 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Kyle Busch 238 Carl Edwards 179 Jimmie Johnson 175 203. ch posted: 07.16.2013 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor for the #18 should just be Doublemint for consistency. 204. 52 posted: 01.14.2014 - 11:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know that no one cares, but this was my last Bristol race. I had been to every race since April of 1989. The whole sport has regressed a lot, but especially the product at Bristol. I went to 46 Cup Races. Spent $10s of thousands of dollars. And it was ruined by progressive banking. 205. Anonymous posted: 04.11.2014 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red Bull Sponsors 4/83 - Red Bull/BI-LO 206. NASCARLover22 posted: 08.07.2015 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsorship update webmaster: #7-Speed Energy Drink/Food 4 Less 207. Braindead Zombie posted: 03.28.2016 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember at one point during this race, Marty Reid forgot how to pronounce Brad Keselowski's name and referred to him as "Brad... (long pause) K." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: