|| *Comments on the 2011 GEICO 400:* View the most recent comment <#179> | Post a comment <#post> 1. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.17.2011 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stephen Leicht missed the race? I think I might cry. 2. Cooper posted: 09.17.2011 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great qualifying run for the #2 team. They were 13th in qualifying practice and improved to 6th in qualifying. They also have a great pit box tomorrow. Opening in front of him and a Start and Parker behind him (#87). I can't believe my favourite driver is in the Chase. Also, Kevin Harvick's poor qualifying skills are going to come back and bite him. You can't continuously start at the back and win a championship. No way. (Matt Kenseth is an exception). Of the 12 Chase Contenders Kevin Harvick ranks 11th in Average Start Position (19.4). He's also 9th in Laps Led of the Chase Contenders, which means less bonus points. Basically don't drink Budweiser, drink Miller Lite. Anybody want to make a friendly wager? Harvick fans?.... If Kevin Harvick finishes better than Brad Keselowski tomorrow, I won't make another race page comment the rest of the year. Vice Versa for you if Brad Keselowski beats Kevin. 3. 18fan posted: 09.17.2011 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, last year was the proof that Harvick's qualifying skills, or lack there of, cost him because I think he would've won the title if he didn't have to come from deep in the field so much in the chase. 4. Mr X posted: 09.18.2011 - 2:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The theme around the goodyear tires this week seems to point to them being rock hard, so I'm not expecting much, a race similar to Las Vegas or Kentucky, which were both terrible races where clean air is all that matters. At least this race is on a sunday afternoon. 5. Jocke Persson posted: 09.18.2011 - 4:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #5 takes it today 6. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.18.2011 - 10:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I can't believe my favourite driver is in the Chase." I know. As I mentioned on the NWide page, this is the first time since 2000 that a driver that I truly care about has a shot at the title. After Dale died, I pulled for June for a few years, but I was more pulling for Dale Earnhardt Inc. I wanted Dale's company to do well. But I never felt the connection with June like I do with Brad. This is as excited as I have been in a long time. Of course Dale's run in 2000 fizzled towards the end, and there is always a chance Brad will totally bomb in the cha$e. But what excited me is that, even if he does have 10 awful races, I don't think it will hurt him in the future. If can suffer through a season like the one he had last year, and come back to have a season like this one, especially when you consider the first 10 races were just as depressing as 2010 for them, I feel like they have nothing to lose and everything to gain. I don't worry about Brad like I did June. When he saw a VERY promising '04 cha$e run fall apart with him cussing on live TV during the "If you cuss on live TV, you will absolutely be docked 25 points" era, a mechanical issue at Martinsville, an ill advised move at Atlanta, and a bad run at Homestead, I was worried '05 would be bad. I was right. So yeah, I am very excited about this one. 7. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.18.2011 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Honestly, Brad showed a great team attitude and didn't seem to let last year's terrible season affect him in the slightest. How many drivers currently driving in Cup would totally freak out if they had a season like Brad had last year? I do think he could have a shot at a top 7 points finish if he carries over the momentum he's been having into the cha$e. A few people have said that he could bomb like Vickers did in '09, but I don't think you can compare Brad to Vickers as a driver. I could be wrong, but Brad doesn't seem like the type of driver who lets pressure get to him. 8. 00andJoe posted: 09.18.2011 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain rain go away... 9. Matt G posted: 09.18.2011 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race postponed till Monday. 12:00 ET/ 11:00 CT 10. Mr X posted: 09.19.2011 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The groove is getting pretty wide, it might be at the wall by the end of the race. The tires do seem to give up a little bit, this race will probably be better then I originally thought. 11. Jocke Persson posted: 09.19.2011 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The ESPN broadcast yesterday was among the best I've seen, even though we didn't even get a race! Really good segments throughout and conversations between DJ, Rusty, Brad, Andy, Tim. Had me glued to the tv for a couple hours at least... 12. RaceFanX posted: 09.19.2011 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin Harvick finally drove a red Budweiser car in this race. The red look was designed to promote Bud's new Bowtie Can. 13. Mr X posted: 09.19.2011 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick's scheme looks good. 14. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.19.2011 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see JJ Yeley hasn't changed a bit. 15. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HOLY CRAP! At least 6-8 cars ran out of gas on the last lap. You'd think someone was controlling the fuel tanks with a remote control the way those drivers ran out all at once. Congrats to the #14 team on getting their first win of the season. 16. Baker posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Heck yeah!!! About time one of these things bounces Stewarts way. I gave up on his season a long time ago. I thought he'd even miss the chase. Today is probably just a fluke and get my hopes up, but a title run would be awesome after running so bad all year. 17. Scott B posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne was the top finishing Toyota back in 12th place (unofficial). Denny Hamlin starts the Chase off badly with a 31st. Josh Wise makes his first career Cup start, credited with a 42nd doing a park and start in the #37. 18. Anonymous posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) aaaaaaaaaaaaaand Kyle Busch starts off the Chase by getting screwed on fuel mileage. Despite the fact that he was saving fuel the entire final run, he runs out before everyone else. Well, that's the Gibbs cars for you. Same thing cost Denny Hamlin the championship last year. The Chase is so stupid. Tony Stewart is nearly in the points lead? Busch is half a race behind? What was the point of the entire season? What was the point of winning those races when one lap less of fuel can bury you behind 9 other drivers? I'm so sick of this points system, I think I'm just going to quit watching from here on out. I hate watching the Chase races, they're just not enjoyable. 19. Bronco posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The #17 team is going to pay dearly for what happened on that last lap in the points later on. 20. Cooper posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somebody should've took me up on my prediction, I wouldn't be typing this right now...But overall a very fun race. Every rain delay race has been absolutely spectacular. A boneheaded move by whoever pushed Kenseth on the final lap. Might cost Matt a championship. I'm glad NASCAR followed through with their rules and penalized the #17 Man, is the Chase always this exciting? Brad went from dead duck to king of the pond like 3 times in the race. Man, this has been by far the most exciting season in 10 years. 21. Kinetic posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well there goes Kyle Busch's chase. That team just does not have what it takes, and it's not entirely Kyle's fault either. 22. potatosalad48 posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great job by Tony to save fuel. He's ne of the best at doing that. Jr. turned a mediocre starting spot into a 3rd place finish, albeit with some help by all the guys who ran out of gas on the last lap. 23. potatosalad48 posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *one 24. 00andJoe posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper - that was J.J. who pushed the 17 on the final lap. I suspect Matt will be having "words" with Yeley this evening. And is it just me or should we be starting to ask if Brad K has hijacked Jimmie's golden horseshoe? 25. 00andJoe posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Quick Chase predictions after race 1 of 10: - Tony, Brad and Jimmie will duke it out for the championship. - Kurt and Denny will wind up in the basement. 26. Have at it Brad posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle ran out of gas! He's 19 points behind Harvick, of all people! What a choke job LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!! Great run by Brad, too 27. TheSilverFox posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's what the point standings SHOULD be: Johnson - 922 Edwards - 919 (-3) Ky. Busch - 913 (-9) Harvick - 909 (-13) Gordon - 892 (-30) Kenseth - 880 (-42) Ku Busch - 868 (-54) Newman - 859 (-63) Stewart - 835 (-87) Earnhardt - 822 (-100) Keselowski - 800 (-122) Hamlin - 757 (-165) I like Stewart, but he has no business only being 7 points out of the lead. Likewise, Keselowski absolutely does not deserve to be a mere 15 points out of the lead, when he is in reality basically a full 4 races behind the points leader. Just look at the incredible points battle we'd have going on without the Chase. 4 truly deserving drivers, who worked hard for an entire season, would still be incredibly close together. But instead we have a manufactured BS points race with guys like Keselowski and Stewart erasing 7 months of those driver's hard work in one race, basically just because of fuel mileage. How can anyone feel good about this points system? Is this supposed to be exciting? I find it to just be frustrating as a race fan. I know there are a lot of Keselowski fans on this board, but doesn't this make you sick to your stomach? I'd be ashamed as a NASCAR fan if Keselowski won the championship, and with the luck he's been having lately, that doesn't seem too far out of the equation. And I hate watching Kyle Busch fall victim to pit road failures or shoddy fuel mileage, when he's been one of the best two drivers all season. A true honest points race between him, Harvick, Edwards and Johnson could be legendary. NASCAR wants to put an emphasis on winning, yet the existence of the Chase seems to time and again run contrary to that philosophy. 28. Texas Terry posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hate fuel mileage races, even though I like seeing Tony win. It's a shame this could make the difference in the championship, but I have no doubt that Jimmie can quickly make up the points he lost today. 29. 00andJoe posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #9 sponsor: Stanley/DeWalt Tools 30. JimmieJohnsonsNeatlyTrimmedBeard posted: 09.19.2011 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle ran out of gas! He's 19 points behind Harvick, of all people! What a choke job LOLOLOLOLOLO!!!!!! Great run by Brad, too" Jimmie ran out of gas, so I guess he choked as well? And Gordon? And all of the other drivers who didn't make it? A driver can only do so much inside the car. The Gibbs cars are not historically great with fuel mileage. And Gordon and Johnson seem to come out on the wrong end of that stick more often than not. Maybe they didn't even get the tank full, Busch's crew was making a lot of mistakes today. So either you need to relearn the definition of choke, or better yet, grow up. 31. Jocke Persson posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To the back: David Stremme (#30), missed driver introductions" How did he manage to do that? What did he do instead? 32. Anonymous posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon is D.O.N.E. It maybe early but they brought a 15th place car and finished 24th. Things looked promising but i believe its over. Anyone else see Gordon winning a title now, i hope noones that stupid. I wish for one chase Gordon and his crap team would be good all ten chase races but that will never happen. Im so mad i wanna punch everyone on that craphole team in the face. Oh and by the way Jeff great job running out of fuel even though supposidly you had enough till the end. 33. GDR posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That woulda been there where'd did he come from of where did he come froms today, thought the 29 was going to lead 1 lap and steal it but the 14 saved enough. 29 is taking the Richmond winner to Loudon so they need to make hay now that they've got the points lead. 34. BON GORDON posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way the whinny complaining anonymous post above is me. 35. Cooper posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff and that teams 1.5 mile program is awful. Atlanta was a blip on the radar because Atlanta is a track on it's own. Jeff will still do well, but he won't win the chase. Kyle Busch is cursed. Karma has Kyle and that team by the nuts. They always find new ways to lose. Like hitting pieces of shrapnel and running out of gas. 36. Mr X posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Well yet another rock hard tire, clean air, and fuel mileage race, better then Vegas or Kentucky because the groove was wider. NASCAR's 1st chase race certainly did a great job of turning the top 12 upsidedown, Kyle is somehow 9th, Jeff Gordon is somehow 11th, Matt Kenseth is 10th, J.J. is 8th, Brad is 7th, Dale Jr is 5th, Tony is 2nd?, and how's Kevin the leader. It seems like the worse you run during the year the higher you are in points. When is Brian Frances reign of terror going to end. 37. 00andJoe posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It seems like the worse you run during the year the higher you are in points." I guess four wins count for nothing? Hm, I guess consistency counts for more than wins? I'm sure Matt Kenseth agreed in 2003. Oh, wait... 38. Talon64 posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I know there are a lot of Keselowski fans on this board, but doesn't this make you sick to your stomach? I'd be ashamed as a NASCAR fan if Keselowski won the championship, and with the luck he's been having lately, that doesn't seem too far out of the equation." I agree 100%. That's why I'm hoping Brad Keselowski wins the title. Or Tony Stewart, or especially Dale Jr. if he doesn't win a race. Any of those 3 winning the title over the season-long front runners like Johnson, Kyle, Carl and Harvick should leave an awful taste in anyone's mouth and would hopefully bring NASCAR one step closer to getting rid of the Chase BUT, NASCAR and the media always say that all 12 guys have a shot even though it's really only 3-4 at most in reality. So NASCAR would probably like it if having a guy who just squeaked into the Chase won it all. Prepare to get horribly sick of the word "upset" if that happens, just like "history" and "points as they stand". 39. Scott B posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Q: "To the back: David Stremme (#30), missed driver introductions" How did he manage to do that? What did he do instead? A: Busy signing autographs for his multitude of fans? (Sarcasm on) :) 40. Cooper posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "27. TheSilverFox posted: 09.19.11 - 3:54 pm" It's actually hilarious when you think about it. Brad's awfulness at the start of the season is irrelevant. And every race from earlier this year doesn't mean anything...Feel bad for the drivers and the fans that are going to get screwed over. But it all comes around full circle. Karma will even everything out. And I wouldn't be embarrassed if Brad chased this title down because I feel like NASCAR owes me a championship from '02 but that's another story for a different time and place. Overall you are completely correct. This Chase system is a Clusterf**k. But for fans of the drivers that were way back it's really entertaining. 41. Bronco posted: 09.19.2011 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First daytime race at Chicago since 2007, and first time the chase starts at somewhere other than New Hampshire. Steve Letarte did a great job adjusting the #88 from a car that was only capable of a top 15 to one that charged to the front near the end, running 6th before moving up a few spots because of fuel mileage. This was Dale Jr's first top 5 since Kansas in June. I think the rest of the chase will play out well for him given his results at those tracks from earlier in the year. "Kyle Busch is cursed. Karma has Kyle and that team by the nuts. They always find new ways to lose. Like hitting pieces of shrapnel and running out of gas" Agreed, every year he has the worst luck in the chase. Hamlin is almost a full race's points out of the hunt. He's done. 42. TheChaseBlowsChunks posted: 09.19.2011 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing that would make the Chase so much better, have separate points for the Chase drivers, so they are only racing amongst themselves. In other words, the top finishing Chase driver gets 12, 2nd highest gets 11, 3rd highest gets 10, and so on. That would minimize the affect that a race like this would have on those drivers that ran out of gas. I mean, if this supposed to be a playoff, why should some back-runner no-name that pits off sequence get to affect the points championship because they could make it to the end on fuel? The way I see it, several Chase drivers were penalized today simply because they raced hard. 43. Schroeder51 posted: 09.19.2011 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I feel like a complete idiot picking Jeff Gordon to win the championship now. I think there's a good possibility he'll finish 10th-12th, honestly now. 44. Eric posted: 09.19.2011 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This shouldn't be the only fuel mileage race if anyone looks at the amount of one and half mile tracks that the winner won due to fuel mileage. Jeff Gordon had a disappointing day and I didn't expect that out of the 24 team. Jimmie Johnson is known to have problems saving fuel outside of Phoenix. This is the weakness that I failed to mention last week out out of Jimmie Johnson. If Jimmie is in a close points race at homestead, he is going to be in trouble if that race goes down to fuel mileage. Kevin Harvick got so high in points because his team won 4 races before the chase. His team did some experimenting starting in June and that was partly reason for the 29 team's slide. Tony Stewart had a great car, but I don't see him win the championship still. Tony sometimes is good at saving fuel. The only way Stewart is going to have a chance to win the championship is by having a lot of racing luck including winning multiple fuel mileage races. Dale Jr. finishing 3rd doesn't mean he is a title contender. Dale isn't as bad as he was going into the chase, but the 88 team didn't have pure speed all year. Steve Letarte told Larry McReynolds that he was making conservative calls for a couple months. I agree the 18 team is cursed. The pit crew of the 18 team was off this race even before Kyle ran out of fuel. I called it for Hamlin not being a true contender in the chase. 45. Talon64 posted: 09.19.2011 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart becomes the 17th driver to reach 40 career wins in Cup. It also ties him with Mark Martin for 16th all time, 11th in the modern era and 3rd only to Jimmie Johnson (54) and Jeff Gordon (43) since coming to Cup in 1999. Tony is now the all time leader in Cup wins at Chicagoland with 3, the 2nd track where he leads all time in wins (Watkins Glen with 5). It's the 5th track where he has at least 3 wins at. In all 3 of Tony's wins there, it's been his first win of the season. And it's his 13th consecutive season with a win, tying him with Lee Petty and Cale Yarborough for 8th all time. It also ties Lee Petty for the longest streak of winning seasons to start a career. Kevin Harvick picks up his first top 5 finish of 2011 that isn't a win (4 times) or 5th (3 times). It's his 21st career runner-up finish, tied with Ernie Irvan and Matt Kenseth for 32nd all time. It's also his 6th top 5 in 11 career Chicagoland starts (10.4 avg fin). Dale Earnhardt Jr. gets his 4th top 5 of 2011, his most since 2008 when he had 10. He also got his 10th top 10 of the year, the 9th time in 12 seasons he's reached that mark (last time was also in 2008). It's just his 2nd top 10 in the last 13 races, his first top 5 in the last 13, and his first top 10 in the last 5 Chicagoland races (3rd top 5 in 11 starts, 14.8 avg fin). Carl Edwards finishes in the top 5 for a 3rd straight race, his longest streak of the season. He's now tied with Kyle Busch for the most top 5's this year with 13 and with Jimmie Johnson for the most top 10's with 18. It's his 3rd top 10 in 7 Chicagoland starts (16.3 avg fin) but they're all top 4 finishes. Brad Keselowski gets his 5th top 5 and 6th top 10 in the last 7 races (27 more point scored than the next driver in that span). It's his best finish in 3 Chicagoland starts (18.3 avg fin). Kurt Busch led 64 laps, his most in a race since he led 66 at Loudon 8 races ago. This is the 3rd consecutive season that Kurt's had at least 15 top 10's after only reaching that mark 3 times in his first 8 seasons. Of Kurt's 6 top 10's in 11 Chicagoland starts (17.0 avg fin), he's finished 6th and 8th three times each. Clint Bowyer reaches 10 top 10's for the 6th time in 6 full seasons in Cup. But it's just his 2nd top 10 in the last 11 races, but his 5th top 10 in 6 Chicagoland starts (10.2 avg fin). Ryan Newman finishes 8th for the 3rd time in the last 4 races; only 5th has been his more common finish, finishing there 5 times in 2011. It's his 4th top 10 in the last 5 Chicagoland races and 6th in 10 career starts (15.9 avg fin). Mark Martin has back-to-back top 10's for the first time in 2011 and needs just 1 more to reach 10 for the 24th consecutive season. Jimmie Johnson remains winless at Chicagoland Speedway, as he ends up 10th after leading 39 laps; he's led 286 laps over the last 5 races there, and has 8 top 10's in 10 career starts (10.0 avg fin). Matt Kenseth earned just his 6th career pole in 427 starts, but the 2nd time he's had 2 in a season (2005). 46. DaleJrFan20 posted: 09.19.2011 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I was able to watch the first 160 or so laps before I had to head off to class (I'm typing this from my class right now), but it seems like I missed an interesting finish despite a rather boring beginning. And all you guys complaining about how the points stand after one race, don't worry, your golden boy will be atop the standings come Homestead, but in the case that someone ends up pulling the upset come seasons end, I'd put on my trollface. 47. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.19.2011 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well that was a nuts last lap. Congrats to Smoke. 48. Steve Retarte posted: 09.19.2011 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Curious to why Jeff Gordon was listed as two laps down when he didn't get lapped for the first time until Tony Stewart was in turn 4 coming to the checkered. Is there a rule that says you can't finish the race by crossing the start/finish line on pit road? 49. BostonNascarGuy posted: 09.19.2011 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Response to Comment #32 Go see the chase stats for Gordon in 2007. Pretty sure it was 2 wins 6 top 5's & 9 Top 10's. Only finish outside top ten was 11th. Pretty darn good, but the 48 won 4 in a row. Gordon's team did great getting him in position for a top 10-15 with a 20-25th place car. He was saving the entire last run, it just didnt work out. Also before counting the 24 out check out Jimmie's finish in the first chase race at Loudon last year (25th). Not claiming that its easy, but if the team was strong enough before todays race, than it is strong enough to overcome todays race. If its not, then it was never going to happen anyway. 50. BostonNascarGuy posted: 09.19.2011 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Response to comment #48. I have the answer to that Question. I asked Steve O'Donnell (Sr. VP of NACSAR) via twitter. He said it was due to a pit road speeding penalty, and he would have had to serve a pass through penalty. AFter that I asked him, how he was speeding if on 'pit in' he was out of gas, and on 'pit out' checkered flag was already shown and cars were heading down pit road the wrong way. I have yet to receive an answer to that question at this time. 51. Scott B posted: 09.19.2011 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting that the #17 team apparently did not request the push across the finish line, and would have been better off if they had just coasted across. The penalty is correct by the rulebook, though. So we won't have 2 weeks in a row with a controversy over a non-contender changing the outcome of a race. 52. Alex posted: 09.19.2011 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After 3 DNQ's over 3 years, Josh Wise makes his first career Cup start. 53. Benny posted: 09.19.2011 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was able to watch the last 45 laps. thought it was very interesting. 54. 18fan posted: 09.19.2011 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where would Matt have finished if he didn't get pushed across the line? 55. Mr X posted: 09.19.2011 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank you TheSilverFox, I now have one more person to help me ignore the existance of the chase. 56. Watto posted: 09.19.2011 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kind of sad how the first race has everyone writing so many drivers out. Few thoughts; 1. Kyle Busch didn't get "screwed". 2. People calling for Jeff Gordon to end up 10th-12th at best need to look at the stats. 11 top 10s in the 14 races leading up to the Chase, and suddenly he has no shot? Of course he has a shot. He could struggle for another race and still have a shot at the title with a realistic shot of getting into the top 5. 3. "Oh no I suddenly hate the chase now that my driver had a bad start to it" 4. If Brad Keselowski wins the title, that'd be like a football team starting the year 0-4, finishing the regular season 9-7, making the playoffs, and riding their new found momentum to a super bowl victory. Not likely by any means, but does that mean they don't deserve the title? I personally don't like the Chase. I wish we were using the classic style points system without the Chase. However, if the Chase is a complete joke, does that mean that all playoff systems are a joke? Too many people are writing off drivers who still have a shot based on one race. The complexion of the battle for the title is going to be drastically different come Homestead. In other words, calm down guys and just enjoy the show. I don't like the Chase either, but some of you guys are being completely overdramatic. 57. Scott B posted: 09.19.2011 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18Fan, Hard to say exactly where Matt would have finished without the push, there were so many cars running out of gas on the last lap it was chaos. From the TV coverage it was hard to tell who ran out where, they were concentrating on the lead pack and didn't really pick up much on those cars down on the apron until Stewart had crossed the finish line. 58. TheChaseBlowsChunks posted: 09.19.2011 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "4. If Brad Keselowski wins the title, that'd be like a football team starting the year 0-4, finishing the regular season 9-7, making the playoffs, and riding their new found momentum to a super bowl victory. Not likely by any means, but does that mean they don't deserve the title? I personally don't like the Chase. I wish we were using the classic style points system without the Chase. However, if the Chase is a complete joke, does that mean that all playoff systems are a joke?" Except that in your ridiculous comparison, it would be like the New England Patriots were playing the Indianapolis Colts during the playoffs, and members of the Cleveland Browns and Detroit Lions could run out on the field and trip the players, or just stand around getting their way, and affect the outcome of the game. You can't compare those two sports. It's not the same. Your point makes no sense. And the sooner people like you stop making these ridiculous analogies the better, for the rest of us who actually understand what's going on in a race, and how it is different than a game where only two teams compete and the loser is eliminated after losing. 59. Ryan posted: 09.19.2011 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another a lap or two "The Closer" had this one... 60. Scott B posted: 09.19.2011 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The playoffs in other sports have become a bloated, money-making joke. The Super Bowl and the World Series used to be between teams that never played each other in the regular season. Then you start adding wild cards, and interleague play during the season, and it all gets diluted. Don't even get me started on the NBA or NHL. A Championship should be for the best season overall, not getting hot at the right time. And teams that struggled to make a .500 record shouldn't be anywhere near the playoffs. Oh... and, I hate the Chase, too. 61. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.19.2011 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nobody can be counted in or out after just one race. Except Denny. He's still traumatized from last year. Plus those TRD motors just don't make enough power. 62. warredbertin posted: 09.19.2011 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wouw¡ Andnother shvity rayce aht Shvitkoggoe... 63. Eric posted: 09.19.2011 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watto, I didn't type anything about Kyle Busch being screwed or out of it. I only said he seemed cursed because of the bad luck he has during chase time. Some of it is self inflected, but some of isn't like his pit crew being slower on pit road than normal or a part of JBR fails. I also didn't say Jeff Gordon was done. All I typed was Jeff Gordon had a disappointing day. Disappointing day isn't the same thing as being done for the chase. If I said Jeff was done, I would have used those words. There is a reason why I called off Hamlin before the chase starts. Denny and the 11 team all season wasn't the same team as it was last year. That team hasn't gotten over losing the point lead going into homestead last year yet. I know they had 3 straight top 10's going into the chase, but that team was better at those tracks last year. You also have to count the fact the 11 team switched from JBR engines to the engines rest of the Toyota's are running. That means the 11 team might still have to adjust to that. 64. Rusty posted: 09.19.2011 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Playoffs are needed in most sports IMO. Every team has a different schedule and it is unfair to just crown a champion because they won the most games against a soft schedule. The Falcons and Patriots had the best records in their conferences last year and got wrecked in their first playoff games. However, in NASCAR every driver competes against each other every single week so there really isn't a need for a playoff system. 65. Eric posted: 09.19.2011 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I do think some playoff systems are joke including the NFL. Last year the Seattle Seahawks got in with a 7-9 record because their division sucked and they were rewarded a home playoff game against the New Orleans Saints. The Seahawks won their division and that meant they got a home game against a team that didn't win their division. That is a joke because a team 11-5 should be hosting home playoff game against a 7-9 team without looking at the fact teams with losing records shouldn't be in the playoffs a first place. 66. 18fan posted: 09.19.2011 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 11 team has been a 15th place team all year. I think the top 11 are still in it, especially considering who the 8th-11th place teams are. I don't think the 88 will be a factor and the SHR cars are hard to judge. 67. 00andJoe posted: 09.19.2011 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) New Hampsire entry list is out. 46 cars: -Stremme in the #30 -Bliss in the #32 -Steve Park in the #35 -Josh Wise in the #37 -Yeley in the #38 -Kvapil in the #55 68. BON GORDON posted: 09.19.2011 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LISTEN PEOPLE JEFF GORDON IS DONE! He may still get a top 5 points finish but i could care less. I want to see him win a title. So what if Jimmie Johnson finished 25th at New Hampshire and came back to win it all. Jeff isnt Jimmie and this isnt 2006. I shall eat my foot if Gordon comes back to win the title. He will run well at New Hampshire, martinsville, and kansas (maybe). Run bad at texas, lowes, the new phoenix, and homestead and get in a wreck at talladega. I forget the other race but Im a realist and maybe wrong about where he'll do good or bad but im 100% sure Gordon is done. 69. Cooper posted: 09.19.2011 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "56. Watto posted: 09.19.11 - 7:15 pm" 1. You're right Kyle didn't get screwed today, he got unlucky. But overall he did get screwed over because he dropped from 1st to 9th in the standings in one week because of the chase. 2. Jeff Gordon is dead. The team sucks on the intermediates. I have him finishing 7th. 3. If my driver was the point leader and now sits 9th, I'd be pissed 4. Every playoff system has their flaws. I've mentioned that before. The chase isn't as bad as some of the other leagues. Get Er' Done Brad. Also there is one last thing I need to mention... Allen Bestwick is pretty damn good at his job. You kind of take him for granted because he's been doing this for a long time but he really is heads above every other play by play guy in North America. He keeps you posted on all track activity, keeps track of every driver and offers a non-bias opinion. When he didn't do the races for ESPN, I found ESPN to be unwatchable but now it's actually a pretty good broadcast. So I'd like to give my Thumbs Up of the Week to AB. 70. Cooper posted: 09.19.2011 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "62. warredbertin posted: 09.19.11 - 7:45 pm" Epic comment. This comment makes more sense than any other comment on here..HAHA 71. Watto posted: 09.19.2011 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Your point makes no sense. And the sooner people like you stop making these ridiculous analogies the better, for the rest of us who actually understand what's going on in a race, and how it is different than a game where only two teams compete and the loser is eliminated after losing." My point made loads of sense, but in case you missed it, I said that I don't like the chase. I completely understand what's going on in a race. Of course my example was overexaggerated, but you honestly shouldn't question my understanding of the sport when you really have no idea who I am behind this fake name. I don't think a wannabe-playoff system has a place in racing. Of course, let's not let that get in the way of your post where all you wanna do is belittle me with your pretentious nature. "Watto, I didn't type anything about Kyle Busch being screwed or out of it." I didn't say you did... I was referring to an anonymous poster (comment #18). I probably should've been specific, but my comment were general thoughts in reply to literally 10, if not more, comments. "I also didn't say Jeff Gordon was done." Once again, other users did. 72. Curran posted: 09.19.2011 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar fans are funny. They complain about the Chase and how it's unfair that 10 races wipe out the first 26. (I say this is funny because you don't here this in other sports.) For example, when the 10-6 Giants beat the 16-0 Patriots in the Superbowl in the 07/08 season, I never heard one person complain how unfair it was that one game wiped out an entire season's worth of games in which New England was clearly superior to every team in the NFL, much less the Giants. I guess my question for those of you who complain about the Chase is - Why is it Okay in the NFL for one game to wipe out a season's worth of work but in Nascar it's not Okay for 10 RACES to wipe out a season's worth of work. 73. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.19.2011 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Curran, see post #64. 74. 18fan posted: 09.19.2011 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm pissed off about Kyle dropping from 1st to 9th in points, but I'm more pissed off about how the chase has put Tony Stewart, whose team has barely been a top 10 team all year in 2nd in points just because he won this race. He deserved to win this race as he was faster than his closest competition, Kenseth and Johnson, before everyone was in fuel saving mode, but he doesn't deserve to be 2nd in points. 75. TheChaseBlowsChunks posted: 09.19.2011 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For example, when the 10-6 Giants beat the 16-0 Patriots in the Superbowl in the 07/08 season, I never heard one person complain how unfair it was that one game wiped out an entire season's worth of games in which New England was clearly superior to every team in the NFL, much less the Giants." Why do people insist on perpetrating this ridiculous analogy? How does it in any way make the Chase a more acceptable playoff format? The two sports, and the two playoff systems, couldn't possibly be more unalike. 76. Curran posted: 09.19.2011 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You all act like Tony is going to win the Championship just because he won this race. Sure he's second in points now but that will disappear like money in a slot machine if he runs like he has all season. One race is a VERY small sample (even in the Chase) - We must not forget that. The only way the Chase rewards Stewart is if he runs well for 10 straight weeks, and if he does that, well then he deserves some credit. Meanwhile, the 18,24, and 48 teams now have to deal with adversity. But if they handle it well and run like they have all season, they will bounce back and reapproach the top of the standings in a few short weeks. Those are the things Championships are made of. 77. Curran posted: 09.19.2011 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fair enough DSFF. I guess I just see some value of having to prove yourself under pressure and respond to adversity late in the season. It's certainly not the season long test that it once was, but there are aspects of this championship format that really separate the men from the boys. For me, I'm really interested to see how the 18,24 and 48 respond to this. 78. Anonymous posted: 09.19.2011 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was there a Matt Kenseth interview anywhere. I'd love to know what he had to say about that push he got on the last lap that helped lead to his poor finish. 79. 18fan posted: 09.19.2011 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did the 17 team or Jack Roush ask for the push from the 38 or did Yeley do that on his own? 80. Mr X posted: 09.19.2011 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fact is Curran Tony would still be rewarded for running well during the last 10 races because he would obviously continue to climb in the points standings the fact of the matter is that he had about 100 points wiped out of his deficit. The old system did a much better job of seperating the men from the boys, for example back in 1981 Darrell Waltrip won the title, but 14 races into the 31 race season he was 3rd 341 points back. He made that up on his own by outrunning Bobby Allison every week. 81. Watto posted: 09.19.2011 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan - Yeley said that he did it on his own when he had seen that Kenseth was out of gas while he was getting out of the leaders' way 82. Thomas posted: 09.19.2011 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've never been a fan of the Chase. That being said, it does create reason for chatter like we see on this board tonight for a couple of weeks in September at least. As I was watching the closing laps and they were talking about guys in the Chase being 3 laps short and being told to go for it, I was shaking my head and thinking they were going to regret it. Barring Harvick, my thought held up pretty well. It's a long Chase, and I don't expect Stewart or Jr. to be contending for the title even after today. 83. Smokefan05 posted: 09.19.2011 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the Chase "sucks" then what does that make the BCS for college football? Good? BCS is more gimmicky, fake and more pointless then the Chase is. 84. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 09.19.2011 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Yeley/Kenseth deal seems strange. Unless your an in house team car, I'm not pushing you to the finish if you run out of gas. And since your already pushing the guy, why not just let off his bumper coming out of Turn 4 so it doesn't look obvious enough to warrant a penalty? 85. Spen posted: 09.20.2011 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeley does drive for Front Row Motorsports, which is a satillite of of RPM, which is a satillite of RFR. So in a convoluted sort of way, he was trying to get brownie points with the big boss. Of course, it might have been a good idea to know the rule book first... 86. Curran posted: 09.20.2011 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Jimmie Johnson made up a near 200 point deficit in 2006 in just the last 6 races by outrunning all 8 drivers in front of him in points at the time. You still see what you saw in the old system but on a much faster, more condensed level with more pressure on the drivers. In some ways, one could argue Jimmie's 2006 comeback is more impressive than the 341 points Darrell made up because Waltrip had time on his side (but that's another debate that I'm not interested in getting into because I have mixed feelings about it myself). Anyway, the Chase is about getting it done in 10 races that everybody knows going in will matter most. There are no surprises here!!! Sure it's very different than the old system, but it still provides it's own unique challenge that's enjoyable and a pressure test for the teams - Because at the end of the day, isn't that what this is about? The team that can best adapt to the challenge presented? I belive the 48 team realizes the challenge Nascar lays out better than anyone else while other still miss the boat almost a decade into this thing. That's their biggest strength in my mind (and they really don't get enough credit for this). They play the game right. I sort of look at it like a game of chess. All that really matters there is if you capture your opponent's king. Sort of like how all that really matters in the Chase is that you run well in the last 10 races (provided you make it there). Some people play chess by trying to take all the pieces and by doing that they think they will end up with the king - But the REALLY good chess players only plot to get the king because they realize THAT'S THE CHALLENGE - They know there's no real reward to taking out the other pieces (other than weakening your opponent some) just as there's is no real reward to dominating those other 26 races except to get in a groove and getting a small advatage for wins). Guys like Kyle Busch remind me of the chess player that tries to take all the pieces (running well in the first 26 but not really setting up a plan for themselves to run well in the last 10), but the 48 team is the example of the chess player who spends the first part of the game plotting to run well in the last 10 (or to capture the king) because THAT'S THE CHALLENGE!!! To me, this is a fascinating dynamic; and besides, when all is said and done, I'm more interested in focusing on what the Chase does offer rather then what it doesn't (especially 8 years into it). It makes for a better experience - Just ask the 48 team. 87. Bronco posted: 09.20.2011 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the fifth time in seven years of the chase that a chase driver scored their first win of the season in the first chase race. And in almost every scenario, the driver that did so was a "bubble driver" rather than a championship favorite. Props to the #56's crew chief for playing a little strategy by staying out in an attempt to score a better finish. It is so annoying as a fan to watch guys with nothing to lose just follow the leaders the whole day. He has done a much better job than Tryson did, despite Tryson's stellar record. And speaking of crew chiefs, JPM's crew chief has done absolutely nothing so far to improve the #42 team. They were off at Indy and Pocono, two of JPM's best tracks with Brian Pattie and things haven't got any better since. 88. 00andJoe posted: 09.20.2011 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And since your already pushing the guy, why not just let off his bumper coming out of Turn 4 so it doesn't look obvious enough to warrant a penalty?" Actually, that's exactly what Yeley did. The catch is NASCAR's spotters had already seen him pushing Kenseth "all the way down the backstretch" (according to ESPN). 89. Mr X posted: 09.20.2011 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Under the old points system in 2006 with 6 races to go Jimmie was OVER 200 points back of Matt Kenseth, he didn't have to beat 8 drivers in front of him like under the chase format, but 7 of those 8 were only in front of Jimmie because NASCAR eliminated their points deficits when the chase started. Jimmie was 202 back after Talladega, made a furious charge and we missed an incredible points battle because of it. 90. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.20.2011 - 1:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How can anyone feel good about this points system? Is this supposed to be exciting? I find it to just be frustrating as a race fan. I know there are a lot of Keselowski fans on this board, but doesn't this make you sick to your stomach? I'd be ashamed as a NASCAR fan if Keselowski won the championship, and with the luck he's been having lately, that doesn't seem too far out of the equation." I'm a Brad fan and am very proud of the rebound he has had, but I agree with you on the aspect that if he wins the championship it will be considered weak. Kurt Busch had 3 wins, 10 top 5's and 21 top 10's in his championship season of '04, and I consider that kind of a weak title too. Kurt was just extremely lucky at the right time. At Homestead, HIS TIRE CAME OFF! But it happened when he was right there, entering pit road so he never lost any significant time to the pack because of it. 91. Spen posted: 09.20.2011 - 5:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Curren: I'd rank Alan Kulwicki making up 281 points in four races as a pretty amazing comeback (granted, that was mostly mistakes on Bill and Davey's parts rather than great driving by Alan, but it was still incredible.) Incidentally, under the old system, in 2008 Johnson was over 400 points back after Bristol. By Charlotte, he was leading by nearly 100. Even though Edwards squeeked by to win the 'classic' championship on fuel milage, that was still one heck of a drive by Johnson. (And technically, if you go by the *real* old point system, that only gives the winner 175 points, then Johnson would have won '08 by four points. On the flip side, he wouldn't have been so many points down after Bristol.) 92. NicoRosbergFan posted: 09.20.2011 - 6:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In 07 Jimmie was 400 points back of Jeff and overnight had the point lead. Anyway, isn't ironic that half of the Chase races are on the tracks, intermediates, that show the LEAST skill to drive in all of auto racing? Think about it, how hard could it be to do 180, back down to 165, turn the wheel slightly, and go back to 180 when compared to say Bristol- go 130, slow down to 100, crank on the wheel really hard, and go back to 130. And your probably right, Jeff is done;, because he isn't good at the tracks that any hack can drive on. Think of it, if John Doe is going to come off of the street, get put in a NASCAR, and win, it is going to be a cookie cutter track (see Kentucky NNS 06, 07, and Cup Michigan 09 Summer). Imagine how disgusting it would be if in the NFL playoffs, the rules were changed to say that can't run, pass, receive, tackle, or block for 30 minutes a game; or if the MLB said that the first 5 innings of the MLB playoff games would be done with a pitching machine; or if the NHL playoffs were done without a goalie for half of the game. Same logic as doing half cookie cutters. The best Chase scenario would have Charlotte ONLY in the Chase, with New Hampshire, Martinsville, a road course, Talladega, Dover, and Darlington somehow in there; the champion has to have TALENT, and we haven't seen a driver straight out beat the s--t out of anybody since 2003, and when we did have somebody do that, the Chase made it so that the driver lost by a couple of points, like 2004, 2007, and 2008; all absolute routs ruined by the Chase, which makes NOT memorable. What years go in the annals? 94, 98, 67, 75, and the like, all years where somebody dominated. Yes, it is the same idea as the other sports, but the only way to make it fair would be to have an elimination format in which driver A and driver B square off and the higher finisher advances. 93. NicoRosbergFan posted: 09.20.2011 - 6:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In 07, NASCAR erased one of the greatest seasons in history in every SINGLE way but wins for an a$$ who puts his teammate in the wall at the blink of an eye. It is the same thing as Reskins-Cowboys or Red Sox-Yankees, only Jeff have has Jimmie and NASCAR out to put him in the wall. Jimmie has put Jeff more times that countable, and NASCAR has screwed Jeff out of 2 titles. And did any one notice how blatantly s--tty cars Jeff got at the end of 2007 while people were actually LETTING Jimmie pass them, especially Texas, Atlanta, and Phoenix, where Jimmie somehow all three times came from a unwinnable race and magically passed people at the end while people would hang back and hold up Jeff? You watch especially Atlanta 2007; watch people let Jimmie pass them during the wrecks at the end. 94. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.20.2011 - 8:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Curran, I actually agree about watching drivers under pressure, and how some thrive under it (JJ) and some crumble under it (Kyle). But overall I just think it is unnecessary. But I respect your viewpoints. 95. Scott B posted: 09.20.2011 - 11:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00 and Joe posted: New Hampsire entry list is out. 46 cars: -Stremme in the #30 -Bliss in the #32 -Steve Park in the #35 -Josh Wise in the #37 -Yeley in the #38 -Kvapil in the #55 Just an added note, Steve Park in the #35 for this event has been planned for months, so there is a good possibility we will see more of Stephen Leicht in that ride after Loudon. 96. Rusty posted: 09.20.2011 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For example, when the 10-6 Giants beat the 16-0 Patriots in the Superbowl in the 07/08 season, I never heard one person complain how unfair it was that one game wiped out an entire season's worth of games in which New England was clearly superior to every team in the NFL, much less the Giants. I guess my question for those of you who complain about the Chase is - Why is it Okay in the NFL for one game to wipe out a season's worth of work but in Nascar it's not Okay for 10 RACES to wipe out a season's worth of work. " The two sports are just totally different. Like I said, it is hard to accurately gauge who is REALLY the best team in the NFL when every team has a different schedule and different circumstances, you just can't crown the team with the most wins the champion. I do think the NFL playoff system is slightly flawed, as normally the best team truly doesn't win, it is the team that gets hot at the right time. Like Green Bay last year, they caught fire at the end of the season and took it into the playoffs. But in a violent sport like football, it is tough to come up with a system that truly gives you the best champion. In the NBA, you almost always get the best team because it is near impossible to ride a hot streak all the way to the Finals when you have to beat every time four times along the way. In NASCAR, everyone faces each other every week and has to deal with the same circumstances every week, a playoff really isn't needed IMO. This is coming from a fan of a driver who benefited from the Chase. Kurt Busch likely would have zero titles without the Chase, but I still don't care for it. "Fair enough DSFF. I guess I just see some value of having to prove yourself under pressure and respond to adversity late in the season. It's certainly not the season long test that it once was, but there are aspects of this championship format that really separate the men from the boys. " That's fair, but it just doesn't seem necessary to me in NASCAR. We all know the reason NASCAR came up with it was to make things more exciting, but looking at the old style standings, the points would be closer that way and we have two exciting championship battles in the Nationwide and Truck series without a Chase. "If the Chase "sucks" then what does that make the BCS for college football? Good? BCS is more gimmicky, fake and more pointless then the Chase is. " The BCS is the biggest joke in sports, no arguments. It practically eliminates a team from a championship with one loss and we can never truly tell who the best team really is. So odd since the NCAA Basketball Tourney is one of the most exciting events in sports. Everyone loves comparing brackets and following every matchup all the way to the title game and seeing all the Cinderella stories. 97. BostonNascarGuy posted: 09.20.2011 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reading through all these comments...and just putting in my take. 1. Chase format...Don't like it, but as with all sports if the rules are there and the competitors know what the rules are from day 1 then its all fair. 2. Fuel Milage Races...Don't like them, but it will always be part of this particular sport. Cars need gas or they won't go very far. 3. Nothing has been decided after one chase race. Only two of the seven chase champions have NOT had a finish of 24th or worse. (Johnson '07 & '08. In '06 Jimmie had a a 39th AND a 24th place finish) 4. The four strongest teams (in terms of laps led) this season are 8th thru 11th in standings. That could lead to a very fluid situation in the standings. 98. TheTruth� posted: 09.20.2011 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kurt was just extremely lucky at the right time. At Homestead, HIS TIRE CAME OFF! But it happened when he was right there, entering pit road so he never lost any significant time to the pack because of it." and why was he entering pit road? he felt the problem and came to pit road immediately before it could cause a potentially destroyed car. that's not "extremely lucky". 99. Smokefan05 posted: 09.20.2011 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF, get over yourself, Jeff screwed Jeff, cause he couldn't beat #48. Quit making excuses. Jeff wasn't complaining about then and he isn't complaining about now. The only person who screwed Jeff was Jeff. Cuz he couldn't BEAT the #48. NASCAR screwed this and NASCAR screwed that..............call the whinermobile. -_- OH irony, Jeff actually wanted the Chase, he said it himself. "The BCS is the biggest joke in sports, no arguments. It practically eliminates a team from a championship with one loss and we can never truly tell who the best team really is. So odd since the NCAA Basketball Tourney is one of the most exciting events in sports. Everyone loves comparing brackets and following every matchup all the way to the title game and seeing all the Cinderella stories." It also makes no sense that the NCAA would be making more money WITHOUT the BCS and yet keep it. Just goes to show, NCAA has little clue of what they are doing. 100. Talon64 posted: 09.20.2011 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) whoa I thought my eyes were bugging out for a second before I realized the Chase drivers are highlighted in green now. lol 101. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.20.2011 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, the creators of the BCS system make Brain France (not a typo) look slightly competent by comparison even though he is anything but. Now there are going to be just 4 super conferences as a result (the ACC, SEC, Pac 27, and the Big 46). The difference is we have never seen the best way to determine the college football champ (a playoff) while NASCAR had been doing it right for decades (a season long points battle) then inexplicably changed. 102. TheTruth� posted: 09.20.2011 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And did any one notice how blatantly s--tty cars Jeff got at the end of 2007 while people were actually LETTING Jimmie pass them, especially Texas, Atlanta, and Phoenix, where Jimmie somehow all three times came from a unwinnable race and magically passed people at the end while people would hang back and hold up Jeff? You watch especially Atlanta 2007; watch people let Jimmie pass them during the wrecks at the end." That is completely delusional. Jeff's average finish in the Chase was 5.1, with 2 wins. Compare that to races 13 through 22 where he averaged 5.8 with 1 win. Blatantly crappy cars at the end of 2007? If Jimmie passed cars during wrecks, that's not the other cars letting him by... that's Jimmie coming through wrecks hotter than other cars. You're creating a fictional story with no factual basis here. 103. dUDE gUY posted: 09.20.2011 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To be honest, I sort of like the idea of the chase, I just don't like how it is currently implemented. I want it to be set up so that the first 26 races a little more important in the chase. Perhaps take the points gap between each driver from position 1-10 to the driver in position 11, reduce that points gap to about 10-20 percent of what it was (rounding up or down so there is no awkward decimal points), add it to the 2000 starting points for the chase, and add 3 bonus points per win on top of that. Wild cards will start with the default 2000 points, and they will get no bonus points. It may be a little complicated to implement, but I think it would provide a bit more of a reward/incentive to teams who did manage to have a great pre-chase run, while still keeping the chase "backmarkers" close enough to make things interesting. 104. Mr X posted: 09.20.2011 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) dUDE gUY, I dispise the chase but that is the best way the could possibly implement it, and its not that complicated. Despite what NASCAR and many casual fans think a more complex points system will do a better job of giving credit where credit is due. 105. JP88 posted: 09.20.2011 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't care what anyone else says but I like the chase. In every sport, you have to finish, in NASCAR before you could build a huge lead and just coast to the title. I think it makes for great drama and I don't feel like anybody is an undeserving champion...sure Brad struggled mightily at the start of the year but turned it around and would of made the chase regardless if it was Wild Card or regular 12-man. The fact is almost every major sport goes through a playoff...and you have to prove that you are the best of the best. 106. NicoRosbergFan posted: 09.20.2011 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Say what ya want, NASCAR is so f-ing screwed and going to f-ing hell with you people with it. Maybe I am wrong, but you people are snakes. NASCAR is so flipping sideways that I am glad I watch open-wheel and sports cars. The racing isn't f-ing screwed around as in NASCAR; open wheel and sports cars suck on their own, and when their good, NASCAR is a country mile behind. You a$$es call me delusional and a crybaby, but you cry and scream bloody murder every time Shrub wins and call Carl Edwards and Kyle Busch dangerous psycopaths. At least my claims about the Chase screwing Jeff in 04 and 07, Edwards in 08, and Harvick in 10 make sense. You all know Jimmie ain't a scab on Morgan Shepherd's a$$ without Hendrick power. Yankees. Boy do I miss the heyday of Bill, Terry, Rusty, Dale, and Darrell. If you want to see racing, go espn3 and watch the ALMS and then you will see talent. I know you won't be able to handle having your own words shoved ten miles up your rears cause you have said it yourselves. I love how "The Truth" has a pack of lies. 107. 00andJoe posted: 09.20.2011 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you hate NASCAR so much, then why do you keep commenting on it? I guess all the stereotypes of Indy and sports-car fans really ARE true. 108. Red posted: 09.20.2011 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my opinion, today's NASCAR (including fans) puts WAY too much emphasis on the championship and not enough on the races themselves. I personally watch each race as an individual event, then at the end of the season I subjectively decide which driver/team had the best season. I don't give a damn about the points standings, and I say that regardless of the format being used. All points systems are, by definition, artbitrary. You could ask 1000 fans to draw up their ideal points system and you'd get 1000 different results. In other words, there is no objective "right" way to determine a champion in auto racing, which is why I just don't worry about it. When evaluating the career or season of any driver, I put almost zero weight on championships. That may sound like heresy, but the points tally doesn't change what actually happened on the track, and what happens on the track is all that matters to me. 109. Smokefan05 posted: 09.20.2011 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, the creators of the BCS system make Brain France (not a typo) look slightly competent by comparison even though he is anything but." He is smarter then the people who run the NCAA...........by a country mile. Smarter then David Stern, smarter then the guy who runs the NHL (even tho he has redeemed himself), the people who run Indycar (this is obvious), and the people who run F1 (this too is also obvious). NASCAR is still the best run sport out there. "The difference is we have never seen the best way to determine the college football champ (a playoff) while NASCAR had been doing it right for decades (a season long points battle) then inexplicably changed." btw how many systems did NASCAR go through before they "got it right?" "To be honest, I sort of like the idea of the chase, I just don't like how it is currently implemented." The Chase on paper is an excellent idea but i have to agree, its not being used right. Too me, you either make the Chase all about wins (and just wins) or best average finish (with the tie breakers being laps lead, top 5's and top 10's) Too me points are overrated, either above can done with or without the Chase. "Say what ya want, NASCAR is so f-ing screwed and going to f-ing hell with you people with it. Maybe I am wrong, but you people are snakes. NASCAR is so flipping sideways that I am glad I watch open-wheel and sports cars. The racing isn't f-ing screwed around as in NASCAR; open wheel and sports cars suck on their own, and when their good, NASCAR is a country mile behind." If that is how you feel, then quit posting here if you hate it that much. 110. TheTruth� posted: 09.20.2011 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I love how "The Truth" has a pack of lies." Hey NicoFan - PROVE THOSE FACTS WRONG. Sure I have opinions, but when I talk about Jeff Gordon's numbers in stretches of 2007, that's FACTUAL INFORMATION. We're on a freaking stats website, go run the numbers and tell me I'm wrong! You can't because it's accurate. "NASCAR is so flipping sideways that I am glad I watch open-wheel and sports cars. The racing isn't f-ing screwed around as in NASCAR" Speaking of delusional, watch any IndyCar lately? How about F1? I'm a critic of many things NASCAR does, just look at their double standards, but IndyCar's officiating alone has made NASCAR's officiating look amazing. You're coming-off as a deranged conspiracy theorist with how you can't give credit where credit was do. The Chase, in my opinion, sucks. But no one in the Chase is backing off so that someone else can win the title. If you really believe that, NASCAR should be the least of your worries. 111. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.20.2011 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "and why was he entering pit road? he felt the problem and came to pit road immediately before it could cause a potentially destroyed car. that's not "extremely lucky"." Considering it didn't happen in a turn or anything like that to crash him out of any hope of winning the title, I'd say that Kurt WAS extremely lucky. The thing I hate about having a playoff in NASCAR is basically that the first 26 races don't matter towards the championship. All you have to do is stay in the top 10 in points, then race for the title in the last 10. 112. 00andJoe posted: 09.21.2011 - 2:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ~Chase Power Rankings~ after race 1 1. Jimmie Johnson. -Five time and defending, but had a good run spoiled by a fuelish mistake that adds to the team's long list of strategy mistakes this season. Shouldn't count on a "least worst" strategy paying off again. 2. Brad Keselowski -Got hot when it counted, and keeps the heat on with Penske's super fuel mileage giving him 8th top 10 in the last 10 races, and 7th in the last 8. Jimmie, if you're looking for your Golden Horseshoe, start here. 3. Tony Stewart -Didn't deserve to make the Chase. Just ask him. Then goes out and wins the first race of said Chase. Can he convert that into momemtum or slip back into mediocracy? Time will tell, but right now, lookin good. 4. Kevin Harvick -"Where did he come from?" Once again heard as a late-race charge past fuel-saving competitors nearly scored win no.5. If he can avoid distractions possibly the top contender to beat the 48. That's a big if. 5. Carl Edwards -Not a horrible start to the Chase, but has ben rather inconsistent over the summer. Roush's Best Hope, perhaps, but it'll take more than "average" to beat out the rest of this field. 6. Jeff Gordon -Was one of the hottest drivers around heading into the race; but when the chips came down so did the misery, and then the fuel just kicked the dead horse. Metaphors cried and Jeff finds himself in a hole. 7. Kyle Busch -To the surprise of many, Kyle didn't melt down when the Chase pressure cooker turned on. Unfortunatly for Kyle, however, his pit crew did. And unlike Hendrick they don't have a better crew to swap with. 8. Dale Earnhardt Jr. -Over the season looked like the old Junior we've unfortunatly come to know, but over the last two races has looked rather more like the old Earnhardt. Odds say that won't be kept up though. 9. Ryan Newman -The Rocket rides a decent year into the Chase, but history tells us he's won his one and done already this year, which doesn't bode well for success down the course of the Chase's 10 races. 10. Matt Kenseth -Double whammy. First out of gas, then a "helpful" J.J. Yeley push saw Matt docked a lap. It's a fair bet neither Yeley or FRM will be getting any Christmas cards from the Roush camp this year. 11. Kurt Busch -Not a bad start, but tugging on Superman's cape -after- dosing him with Kryptonite isn't a good thing to be doing, and once again as mad at his team as he is at Jimmie. Most Likely To Be Penalised Points. 12. Denny Hamlin. -Stick a fork in him. He's done. 113. NicoRosbergFan posted: 09.21.2011 - 5:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In IndyCar, the drivers admit that they are screwed; in NASCAR, the drivers are doormats. And why is it all right for Jeff to be s--t upon by NASCAR in 2007 when he had one of the all-time great seasons, but it wasn't all right in 1996 when he sucked? And Smokefan05, have you ever noticed how many people make posts that hateful on here; I figured I'd throw it back and see the reverberation. The NHL is not run well; if it were, I think we would be on NBS/Versus AND one of the other networks, and Jimmie was sixth(!) entering the Chase. To me, the only way to make the Chase a fair system is to reset the drivers so that 13th can't pass any of them in the points and leave the deficits the same; in a sense, that is how all the other sports do it. If an NFL team makes the playoffs at 15-1, do they say you now cannot have your star QB and RB. No. How does this sound, "I make no pigheaded comments on the NASCAR pages, and you make none on the F1, IndyCar, and Grand-Am pages." There will be a lot more peace if I go into a NASCAR page and say, "Justin Allgaier's 14th top-10." or you go to an F1 page and say, "Sebastian Vettel's tenth win of the year." Why? Because we are different and our tendencies are to argue when we disagree, and I don't want to get worked up about it, and I know you don't either (though some people thrive on strife, I won't name any). All I will add is that if Jimmie wins the title, NASCAR will be at unparalleled sterility. Just to add, if anyone one this forum wants a driver to perpetually suck, just tell me the name and if I like him he will suck (see the Seattle Mariners and Nico Rosberg). 114. Sean posted: 09.21.2011 - 9:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And why is it all right for Jeff to be s--t upon by NASCAR in 2007 when he had one of the all-time great seasons, but it wasn't all right in 1996 when he sucked?" Wait, what? How did he suck in 1996? He had the same number of top 5s and top 10s as Terry Labonte and EIGHT MORE WINS, not to mention leading in virtually every other statistic that season not related to consistency (usually by a large margin). I'd say his '96 season was better than either his '95 or '97 championship seasons, just looking at HIS performance. You're going to say he sucked because of the DNFs/inconsistency. Like I've said many times, I think that's far overrated relative to running up front. I agree he was certainly more consistent in 2007, but I still think 1996 was a better season. He dominated more races and was honestly in contention for more wins. As for 2007, the consistency was staggering, and he was fairly dominant, but what DOESN'T impress me is that Gordon honestly lucked into most of his wins. Pocono? He caught a race-ending rain caution JUST as Ryan Newman was trying to pass him. Charlotte? Newman had taken a fairly massive lead and crashed with a few laps left. Then two Talladega last-lap passes? Hell, anyone can do that. That's the only reason I'm a little underwhelmed by 2007. In 1996, he did not luck into his wins as much and dominated much more. Obviously, he was more consistent in 2007 than in 1996, and there's a strong case for him as 2007 champion, but I think Johnson's 10 wins/24 top 10s also has a strong case for champion anyway. Is 10 wins better than 30 top 10s? Hard for me to say, although he lucked into some of his wins too (particularly those during his 4-in-a-row streak). The reason I see 1996 as a bigger gripe is because Gordon was WAY better than T. Labonte in 1996 while there's a real argument between Gordon and Johnson for 2007. I see Gordon's 2007 as similar to most of his other Letarte seasons, in a way. In all the Letarte seasons except 2005, he was pretty consistent, but he wasn't contending for wins a whole lot, and his setups tended to fade over the race. 2007 was a really, really good version of that same kind of seasons. If he had had the same luck as he did in any of the other Letarte seasons, he probably would have only had 2 or 3 wins, not too impressive when Hendrick was at its absolute peak to the point of being able to win with Casey Mears. I think the 6 wins are very overrated, and Johnson was way stronger in 2007 than T. Labonte in 1996, and that's why I think Terry's title was more obscene than Jimmie's. I'm honestly more impressed by Gordon THIS year than in 2007, just looking at his driving. Hendrick is not as strong as it was in 2007 (just look at Johnson's performance this year - one last-lap pass at Talladega as his only win, wow!), but he's been fighting for WINS on a more regular basis, even if he is far less consistent (which he is). I don't remember Gordon making a killer run through the pack like at Indy (30 seconds in the last 30 laps? DAMN) in a long time, well before 2007. Certainly he had greater championship credentials in 2007, but I am honestly more impressed with his driving this year. But that's just me. You are obviously very consistency-centric, and that's okay, but can you at least see where people like me are coming from? 115. Sean posted: 09.21.2011 - 9:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Correction: 2005 was MOSTLY a Robbie Loomis season, but the rest of my points stand. 116. Jocke Persson posted: 09.21.2011 - 9:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) On another note, it was really cool during the rain-delay broadcast Sunday to hear Rainbow with "Stargazer" from the trackside speakers. I think Kenseth or Kurt was being interviewed at the time, and you could hear the song in the background. My ears melted. Nascar and Dio at the same time :) 117. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.21.2011 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My take on the Top 12 after one race: Harvick: will need 9 more races like this. Nobody relies on other's screw ups more. Thing is, with the way the races have gone this year, it may be enough. Can't fall back into mid summer form though. Smoke: that is a good way to erase a season of nothing but frustration. Definitely has the talent to ride this all the way to the Cup. Organization is still a ? as far as being able to take home the big hardware, but Tony has the talent to overcome that if nobody else steps up. Carl: they have been having a disturbing trend of fading towards the end of races. Was bailed out by fuel mileage which he is very good at. This could be a great asset for him in these last 9. KuBu: like Carl, tends to fade in the 2nd half of races and he isn't happy about it. Attitude is always an issue for him. June: just not enough speed. Seems too happy just to be in the post season, doesn't have a champion's mentality. Newman: did his deal, he was there and got a decent finish. Not championship material by any means, but can get a good finish if they don't have many issues. Bad Brad: the good news is they got a 5th place finish from a 12th place car. The bad news is they only had a 12th place car on the type of track they had been outstanding at leading to a KuBu-esque radio rant. Their ability to save gas helps them going forward. Future looks bright. Just 4 months ago a 12th place car would have cause for celebration. Championship this year is a stretch, but he has showed he belongs. Loudon will be a huge test. JJ: the dichotomy between him and the guy behind him is amazing. Bit by fuel mileage again, but they are running as good as they have all year. Still the favorite. Things like this don't hinder them. Its amazing how -16 looks so small for these guys while... KyBu: -19 looks so large for these guys. Seeing a good run sour for him gives a sense of "here we go again". Will his past come clawing out again? Or is he truly the New Mature Kyle? His talent is unquestioned and unquestionable. Can he put all the pieces together? Kenseth: not done despite the bad break. They ran great as they usually do at intermediates. They can make this up, but can't have any more deals like this. Gordon: definitely not done either. Most concerning though was a bad handling race car. This team does have an ace up their sleeve. Its called Jeff Gordon. Besides you can't count anyone out after one race.... Denny: except this guy. Last year's epic collapse revealed a lot of issues within the 11 team. Issues which haven't been addressed, and it is killing them now. 118. Curran posted: 09.21.2011 - 11:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks DSFF and Rusty for the responses. I can see where you are coming from - I still personally like the Chase, but I see the issues you guys have with it. One thing I do agree with though is that there needs to be some reward for leading the points after 26 races. There's two big reasons for this. 1) The team that shows it's the best for 26 needs to be rewarded even if they knew their advantage would be wiped out going in. It can't be for nothing. It would also add a layer of depth to the first part of the season that I admit is missing now with the chase. 2) Something of this nature would create a very interesting battle that actually matters between the top teams in the summer months. (The more battles there are that mean something, the more exciting the sport becomes) Fans of Kyle Busch, Jimmie Johnson, and Carl Edwards would have been glued to the screen hoping to see their man win what was an excellent regular season battle. Instead, they didn't need to pay attention to it because it meant nothing. I propose the following. Give the team who leads the points after 26 races the first pit selection every week in the Chase. (Example: If the rule were in place this season, Kyle Busch would get the first pit selection in every race from here on out as a reward for being the best over the first 26 events. So when he qualified 9th at Chicago, he would pick his pit first, Kenseth (who won the pole) would pick second, Keselowski (who qualified 2nd) would pick third and so on. This gives the 18 team a clear advantage (especially at tracks with tricky pit lanes like New Hampshire, Dover, and Martinsville) but also keeps the points close at the start of the Chase like Nascar wants. Thoughts? 119. Curran posted: 09.21.2011 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just ran some numbers and found something that SHOCKED me so much I had to go back and double check it. The next eight races on the schedule (New Hampshire, Dover, Kansas, Charlotte, Martinsville, Talladega, Texas, and Phoenix) have all already been visited this season. Just for fun, I thought it would be interesting to see what the points looked like for those 8 races to give us an idea of who might have an inside track we don't know about. Well, the results are in and it gave me the answer I least expected. Perhaps there is hope for Jr. Nation after all. 1) Dale Jr................296...../ 2) Jimmie Johnson.........289....-7 3) Kevin Harvick..........288....-8 4) Jeff Gordon............278...-18 5) Kurt Busch.............270...-26 6) Matt Kenseth...........269...-27 7) Carl Edwards...........264...-32 8) Denny Hamlin...........263...-33 9) Tony Stewart...........229...-67 10)Ryan Newman............228...-68 11)Kyle Busch.............218...-78 12)Brad Keselowski........206...-90 I wouldn't put too much stock into Brad's number here because almost all of these races were run before that team really clicked but the others probably carry at least a little weight. Perhaps the Chase is just made up of tracks that the 18 team runs poorly at. You really have to hate their championship chances after seeing this. 120. 00andJoe posted: 09.21.2011 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NHIS entry list update: the #60 has withdrawn. News update: Jacques Villeneuve is looking into buying Team Red Bull... Curran: Wow. 121. Curran posted: 09.21.2011 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Possible MAJOR implications for the Talladega race. From the Associated Press..... "NASCAR has made two rule changes for next month's race at Talladega Superspeedway that should limit the length of time two cars can draft together. The restrictor plates used in the Oct. 23 race will be larger. The change should lead to an increase of horsepower that could make the cars 2 to 3 mph faster. NASCAR also ordered an adjustment on a pressure relief valve that should lower the maximum water temperature in engines. A threat of overheating could prevent cars from staying hooked together for too long. Drivers discovered over the last year that it's faster to run in two-car tandems. Fans have been lukewarm about the tandem racing, and drivers have complained it's impossible to see when they are pushing another car." 122. Watto posted: 09.21.2011 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In IndyCar, the drivers admit that they are screwed; in NASCAR, the drivers are doormats." You're letting bias get in the way of the truth. There have been so many drivers who speak out about things they disagree with, or double standards on NASCAR's part, yet the drivers are doormats? I really have no idea how you could even start a post with an opening statement that's so blatantly false. Have you ever seen a Tony Stewart interview ever? Harvick? Montoya? Are you familiar with twitter and how several drivers speak their minds on there? In my humble opinion, you're painting NASCAR to be something that it isn't. Just look at it for what it is. You don't need to completely snap over things that aren't even true... 123. Cooper posted: 09.21.2011 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope the rule change brings back the packs. That would be an advantage for Brad, as Brad simply stinks with the two car tango. Also, it would be a big break for me because I enjoy the pack racing more than the two car tag-team. I'm hoping the rule changes will limit the two car draft to about one lap, which means we'll see pack racing and the ability to break away. I'm really digging what NASCAR has been doing lately. 124. Talon64 posted: 09.21.2011 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I just ran some numbers and found something that SHOCKED me so much I had to go back and double check it. The next eight races on the schedule (New Hampshire, Dover, Kansas, Charlotte, Martinsville, Talladega, Texas, and Phoenix) have all already been visited this season. Just for fun, I thought it would be interesting to see what the points looked like for those 8 races to give us an idea of who might have an inside track we don't know about. Well, the results are in and it gave me the answer I least expected. Perhaps there is hope for Jr. Nation after all. 1) Dale Jr................296...../ 2) Jimmie Johnson.........289....-7 3) Kevin Harvick..........288....-8 4) Jeff Gordon............278...-18 5) Kurt Busch.............270...-26 6) Matt Kenseth...........269...-27 7) Carl Edwards...........264...-32 8) Denny Hamlin...........263...-33 9) Tony Stewart...........229...-67 10)Ryan Newman............228...-68 11)Kyle Busch.............218...-78 12)Brad Keselowski........206...-90 I wouldn't put too much stock into Brad's number here because almost all of these races were run before that team really clicked but the others probably carry at least a little weight. Perhaps the Chase is just made up of tracks that the 18 team runs poorly at. You really have to hate their championship chances after seeing this. " I'd heard that mentioned a lot by the media and TV, but it's nice to actually have the numbers so thanks for putting that together. And once again, Kyle Busch is near the bottom when it comes to performance at the Chase tracks. He's also 11th when it comes to his combined career average finish at all of the Chase tracks. He's like the anti-JJ, the Chase tracks are his worst. 125. Schroeder51 posted: 09.21.2011 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #119: If that seriously ends up being a predictor for how the rest of the Chase will go...ugh. Last thing I want to see is Junior entering Homestead with the opportunity to win the championship...especially considering how he ran from about Michigan to Richmond. 126. RaceFanX posted: 09.21.2011 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd love to see Junior have a shot at the title because it would be good for the sport...plus wouldn't it be something if he won the title without winning the race. 127. Smokefan05 posted: 09.21.2011 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree Cooper, i have little issue with the 2 car draft but if making those changes lessens it but doesn't make it go away completely, then that is fine with me. B-U-T, if it comes to the last 5 laps, then the guys will stick with who is front of them until either: A.(you and other guy wreck) B.(you and the other guy have a legit shot at winning) C.(your motor goes sky high from pushing to much). I don't think we will see pack racing like before the 2 car draft but some packs will form but drivers will undoubtably push it to see how long they can really stay beyhond another driver. But for all we know, it may have no affect what so ever. 128. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.22.2011 - 1:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are my predictions for how the final 9 races will go for the cha$e drivers. A lot of others have posted theirs, and it seems fun to look back on them once the season is over to see how right/wrong I was. Harvick: If he can take advantage of his good fortune he's had this year of pouncing when others screw up/have trouble, then he will have a solid shot. But you can only take advantage of stuff like that for so long before it starts hindering yourself. Bottom line is, Kevin and the #29 team can't play it conservative forever. I think he'll finish in the top 5 simply because he's running well enough weekly to do so, but if he wants to win the championship, he'll need to keep having races like Richmond and Chicago. Stewart: Made a nice rebound getting a win at Chicago after the season he has had so far, but I'm going to flat out say that Tony and the #14 team don't have the championship form going for them this year. Tony has struggled at some of his best tracks. I predict an 8th-12th place points finish for him. Carl: Consistency is his strong suit when he is having a good year, but with the nature of the cha$e, you pretty much HAVE to win in the final 10 no matter how much you have won in the first 26, and Carl still only has one win this year, at Vegas. I predict a top 5 points finish for him, but not the championship. Kurt Busch: Has been fast since Penske fixed their team issues, but he has had some inconsistency mixed in with his moments of brilliance. Even in the year he actually won the championship, I would argue that he didn't have the best season. Could make a run for the top 5 in points, but I think he'll finish from 6th-10th. Dale Jr: While history is on his side for the remaining tracks, I don't see him being able to put a string of great finishes together at this moment. Top 5 finishes are what you need in the cha$e, and he only has 4 of those all season. I predict he'll finish anywhere from 9th-12th. Newman: SHR isn't championship material this year, and Newman has never shown he's capable of contending for a title. Don't see him being a factor. Will likely finish 7th-10th in the final standings. Brad K: Momentum, luck and speed are all on his side. If we were still running under the old system, he would stand a great chance at a top 10 points finish, but would have no chance at the title. But the cha$e gives him a great opportunity to make a run at it, although I don't see him being able to beat Johnson, Kenseth or Gordon (see them for the reason why), but I do predict a 4th-7th place points finish for him. Johnson: My top pick for this year's championship, and that's not just because they have won the last five, but because nobody has the cha$e system figured out better than the #48 team. Others will need bad luck to strike this guy for a shot at winning it all. Kyle Busch: Has never shown he can contend for a title. Even in the year he had the best possible shot (2008), he sunk to the bottom of the cha$e group in a hurry. But even with that said, I still think he could finish in the top 5 this season because slowly but surely, his cha$e performances have gotten better, so if he can carry over the momentum he had during the regular season, I predict a top 5 points finish for him. Kenseth: Needs to recover from Chicago, but if I had to pick a guy to do that I'd probably pick Matt. Remember 2005 when it looked like he might not make the cha$e, then he got on a hot streak during the summer and jumped his way in? If he can't win the title, I predict top 5 points finish for him. Gordon: Like Kenseth, he needs to recover from Chicago but he better than most other drivers knows the pressure of being in the championship race and knows how to handle it like a pro. If his team can give him great cars for these last 9 races, I see him finishing in the top 3 in points easily, maybe even winning the damn thing. Hamlin: I don't think he has a shot. They have not shown great strength by any means this season, and I think his bad race at Chicago will do him in. 129. Scott B posted: 09.22.2011 - 10:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) With the Talladega changes, I'm not sure they could go back to pack racing exactly like we used to see it. If the car will overheat from being the pusher in a two car draft, it will do the same for the guys in the middle of a huge pack. They'd have to frequently be weaving out of line to get fresh air. This is going to be very interesting. 130. Scott B posted: 09.22.2011 - 11:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The other scenario, if the plate change doesn't have much effect, would be to continue the two car draft but swap between pusher and puller more often... either way, it sounds like we're going to see something new, strategy-wise. 131. Curran posted: 09.22.2011 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott, I hope it forces drivers to race all day. Too much of Talladega is spent with guys running in the back and just waiting to make their move because they know all that matters in the first 400 miles is staying on the lead lap and not getting caught in a wreck. My dream scenario for this rule change would be that guys running in the back all day staying right behind each other and not pulling out will cause the cars to overheat fast and force those drivers to spend at least a little time near the front to get some cleaner air. I don't think it will play out like that but you're 100% right when you say it's something knew. Teams will have to adjust quick. It should be exciting. 132. DanicaPatrick'sFlatChest posted: 09.22.2011 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "11)Kyle Busch.............218...-78" He wrecked at New Hampshire, Charlotte and Talladega, so that's really hurting him there. He got 4th at Dover, 3rd at Martinsville and 2nd at Phoenix. He typically runs better at Texas than the 16th he got this spring - when he doesn't run out of fuel or give an official the finger. Kansas is a pretty mediocre track for him, but he could get a top 15. Basically, as long as he doesn't crash in any of these races, Kyle should be in the mix at Homestead, but the same could be said for every other driver in the Chase. 133. cjs3872 posted: 09.22.2011 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm back after a nearly month-long absence due to computer problems. Well, Tony Stewart, at long-last, scored his first win of the season and joined the 40-win club, and became the 16th different winner this season, just three short of the modern-record of 19. But the fact that it put Stewart up into contention for the title, and the same can be said of Dale Earnhardt, Jr. after his third-place finish, shows just what a joke the championship is with the Chase format, since it's virtually a ten-race championship, instead of factoring the full season. and that is why I don't consider Jimmie Johnson's five consecutive titles, amazing as it is, that great of an accomplishment. The Penske cars had an okay, but unspectacular race, but in a championship battle, that's what's needed, especially early, while Jeff Gordon, Kyle Busch, and Denny Hamlin had dreadful days, possibly knocking the latter two out of contention. And by the way, Carl Edwards desperately needs a history lesson in regards to what happened to Matt Kenseth at the finish, and the rule saying that you can't receive assistance on the final lap. After all, that rule came into play in two classic Daytona 500s, and both instances involved the Wood Brothers, sort of. Everyone remembers the finish of the 1976 Daytona 500 involving David Pearson, who drove for the Wood Brothers that day, and Richard Petty, as well as Joe Frasson, the third member of that crash. What is forgotten is that Pearson officially won the race by a lap because, after Pearson crossed the finish line, members of Petty's pit crew pushed the car across the finish line, so Petty's final lap was not scored. Then in the 1980 Daytona 500, with Neil Bonnett driving the Wood's #21 car, as Buddy Baker was taking the white flag with the caution for a blown engine (Johnny Utsman's, I believe), Bonnett lost his engine and received assistance from Don Whittington, who was driving roger Hamby's #17 car. Bonnett never did make it across the finish line, but it wouldn't have mattered, since his final lap would not have been scored anyway. Speaking of the Woods, Trevor Bayne had an uneventful day in what might be one of his final races for the team. If what I heard on Tuesday's NASCAR Race Hub is true, he may be taken out of the #21 car by Ford and Jack Roush and replaced by his NNS teammate Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. Bayne possibly losing his ride in the #21 car is something that I actually predicted would happen months ago. If that is true, then it's a near-certainty that Bayne may be about to be released by Roush, due to lack of sponsorship. Bayne's career path is following that of 1970 Daytona 500 winner Pete Hamilton. Hamilton won three times for the Pettys in 1970, including the Daytona 500, but lost his ride with the Pettys when Chrysler basically inserted Buddy Baker into the team's second car, with Hamilton getting Cotton Owens' #6 car. Hamilton soon suffered from a back injury, as well as a loss of desire to compete. Hamilton retired shortly after the 1973 Daytona 500, in which he finished last. Bayne's career is following a similar train of events, with him possibly getting moved out of the #21 car, not by the team, but by the manufacturer (as well as Jack Roush, which might make him the most unpopular car owner in the sport.) Bayne also got ill, much like Hamliton got his back injury. I also wonder if Bayne, with continuing sposorship problems, and having won the big one (the 2011 Daytona 500, in this case) on his first shot, has also begun to lose his desire, much like Hamilton, as well as Indy-Car owners John Mecom and Jim Hall (in his first venture into Indy-Car racing) did after winning the Indy 500 on their first shot. Bayne, if this train of events continue, may be out of the sport by the age of 23 or 24. 134. Scott B posted: 09.22.2011 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At 19 points behind with 9 races to go, Kyle can't be ruled out. Twice this season he's put together 3 consecutive podium finishes. What works against him is that he has trouble putting together a hot streak longer than three races... and those struggles down the stretch run in past seasons. But, a streaky driver still has the potential to go on a run. Denny is the only one I'd feel confortable scratching off the contenders list at this point. Even if the #11 team righted their own ship, they'd have to rely too much on exactly the right combination of bad luck distributed among all the guys ahead of them to catch up... not likely to happen. 135. Talon64 posted: 09.22.2011 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "shows just what a joke the championship is with the Chase format, since it's virtually a ten-race championship, instead of factoring the full season. and that is why I don't consider Jimmie Johnson's five consecutive titles, amazing as it is, that great of an accomplishment." I think the 36 wins over the last 6 seasons, nearly as many as the next two combined (Kyle Busch 21, Denny Hamlin 17), and leading the series in top 5's, top 10's, laps led and average finish shows that Jimmie would've won 5 championships in a row whether there was a Chase or not. 136. Anonymous posted: 09.22.2011 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So if you're not allowed to assist drivers on the last lap by pushing them (Yeley pushing Kenseth), then shouldn't drivers not be allowed to use the two car tandums at Daytona and Talladega once the white flag waves? They are assisting each other by using that draft. 137. Cooper posted: 09.22.2011 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "136. Anonymous posted: 09.22.11 - 4:28 pm" Unfortunately you're right. 138. cjs3872 posted: 09.22.2011 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #134, what I meant was that Jimmie's five championships don't really mean that much because most of them weren't earned through a full season, but instead, just the last ten races. His overall stats in that period speak for themselves, though there are those that wonder how many of those win were really on the "up-and-up", due to Chad Knaus' record of cheating, the rap sheet for which is the longest since Gary Nelson. Now, as for the rule that prohibits the assistance on the last lap, that obviously refers to aiding disabled cars, as you see drivers "help" others on the final lap all the time, but is against the rules for a disabled car to receive assistance on the final lap. Now, am I the only one that truly believes that NASCAR's decision to increase the size of the holes in the restrictor plates for the race at Talladega is an absloutely terrible idea. After all, that will increase the speeds for the race, possibly close to 1987 levels, and we know what happened that year at Talladega. I still think that a great idea would be to run a larger restrictor plate in qualifying, since I think 200-205 MPH qualifying laps are not really that dangerous, especially with the modern cars, then slap a smaller restrictor plate for the race, keeping the speeds down to 192-195 for the race, with occasionally higher speeds. Personally, I think the larger plate may lead to an incident like the Salt Walther crash at the initial start of the 1973 Indianapolis 500, without the fire that incident had. (If anyone has ever seen that crash, you would know what I mean.) After all, we know the cars won't stay on the ground at those speeds. That's been proven time and time again, and with the higher center of gravity these cars have over the cars of a few years ago, letting them race at 205 MPH may lead to one of the worst specatcles in auto racing in this country since the 1973 Indianapolis 500. Yes, I fear that someone could possibly lose his life if the results of the plate change are what I think they'll be. And as for the other rule change, which NASCAR intends to break up the two-car drafts with, I'll believe that when I see it. Actually, the two-car style of racing, while it has its own dangers, is much better, and much safer, in my view, than having the entire field in one glob. If you combine what NASCAR and the drivers seem to want, as far as breaking up the two car drafts, with the higher speeds the larger plates are likely to deliver, that's why I believe the upcoming race at talladega may be one of the worst spectacles in American racing since the '73 Indy 500. 139. cjs3872 posted: 09.22.2011 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Talon64 (#134), without the Chase, Johnson would only have won the title in 2006, among the five that he's got. He would never have been able to come back from his mountainous point deficits in '07, '08, '09, or last year. It can, however, be argued that he probably would have won the title in '04, if there wasn't a Chase that year. 140. Talon64 posted: 09.22.2011 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And Talon64 (#134), without the Chase, Johnson would only have won the title in 2006, among the five that he's got. He would never have been able to come back from his mountainous point deficits in '07, '08, '09, or last year. It can, however, be argued that he probably would have won the title in '04, if there wasn't a Chase that year." Actually Jimmie would've won the title in 2009 too (by 66 over Jeff Gordon in 2nd). And he would've missed out by only 16 points in 2008 thanks to Carl Edwards' fuel mileage gamble at Homestead. But Jimmie wouldn't have thrown away points in the middle of the season by taking risks and doing R&D to prepare for the Chase. I think he at least has a good shot at 5 in a row if everyone raced under the old system. 141. Scott B posted: 09.22.2011 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #136... That is correct, and an even funnier quirk in the rules, if a car ran out of gas at any time other than the final lap, it could be pushed back around to the pits by another car with no penalty at all. That must be a throwback to the pre-Brian days, when NASCAR actually tried to avoid throwing gratuitous yellows. ;) 142. 00andJoe posted: 09.22.2011 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner standings by best finishing team car, after ~Chicagoland~ 1. Hendrick, 1100 2. Roush, 1089 3. Gibbs, 1082 4. Childress, 1043 5. Penske, 1011 6. Stewart-Haas, 961 7. Petty, 875 8. Earnhardt-Ganassi, 829 9. Red Bull, 819 10. Michael Waltrip, 796 11. Furniture Row, 616 12. JTG-Daughtery, 546 13. Front Row, 498 14. Phoenix, 480 15. Germain, 402 16. Baldwin, 392 17. Stoddard, 375 18. TRG, 365 19. Robby Gordon, 286 20. Wood Brothers, 260 21. Gunselman, 154 22. Whitney, 123 23. Parsons, 104 24. NEMCO, 101 25. Inception, 63 26. Leavine, 47 27. Rusty Wallace, 24 28. Falk, 20 29. K-Automotive, 9 143. 00andJoe posted: 09.22.2011 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm hoping Stenhouse doesn't get the #21 ride part-time next year - and it has nothing to do with Trevor Bayne. Instead it has everything to do with the "points in one series only rule"*, combined with the Rookie-of-the-Year rules. To wit: 1. A driver may only earn points in one of the top three NASCAR national touring series during a season; 2. A driver who runs more than seven races in a season in a series is no longer eligible for Rookie-of-the-Year in that series in future years; 3. A driver who is not earning points in a series cannot run for Rookie-of-the-Year in that series regardless of how many races he's running. Ergo, if Stenhouse runs the #21 next year as well as running for/defending the Nationwide Series championship, he'll be ineligible for Cup ROTY, just like Bayne this year. Who, despite running only a partial schedule, would likely be in a rather intriguing (if, perhaps, slightly farcial, considering their coparitive performances...full season as "typical rookie" vs partial season with 500 win) battle with Andy Lally for ROTY at this point. It's always really bugged me when a driver gives up his eligibility without registering for ROTY (Brad K, I'm looking at you), and now the rules basically make it so some drivers "have" to do that. Drivers who run full-time in lower series shouldn't be penalised if they want to run part-time in a "higher" series as well. But that's the Rule of Unintended Consequences for you, I guess. * aka the "Let's screw Trevor Bayne, Joe Nemechek and Travis Kvapil Rule" 144. Talon64 posted: 09.22.2011 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Check this out, I put together a comparison between the seasons the 4 most recent runner-ups to Jimmie Johnson had (Jeff Gordon 2007, Carl Edwards 2008, Mark Martin 2009 and Denny Hamlin 2010) and what they did in the following year (with Denny's 2011 season, I used what he's on pace for): http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n293/talon64/JJcurse.jpg The 4 averaged 7 wins, 17 top 5's, 24 top 10's and a 10.85 average finish in coming close but no cigar to beating out Jimmie Johnson for the title. But in the year following their runner-up seasons, Denny Hamlin is the ONLY one to win a race. Gordon, Edwards and Martin all failed to win a race, and the 4 averaged just 8 top 5's, 14 top 10's, a 15.4 average finish and an average finish of 11th in the standings (assuming Denny finishes 12th, but it seems likely that he'll finish in the bottom 3 of the Chase at least). 145. cjs3872 posted: 09.22.2011 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Talon64, Johnson wouldn't have won the title in 2009 without the Chase format, because Tony Stewart had such a big point lead that he would have put it in cruise control and won the title, possibly going away. And I disagree with the "points in one series only" rule, sort of. I totally agree that Cup series drivers should not be allowed to earn points in the Nationwide and Truck series, but those drivers from the lower series SHOULD be allowed to earn points in the Cup series, as well as run for Rookie of the Year, if they so desire, and yes, Trevor Bayne should have been eligible to run for Rookie honors this year, much as Ricky Stenhouse should be eligible to run for rookie honors next year, even if he doesn't run the full circuit. I've mentioned on other comments pages that a better way to curtail drivers in the Cup series from winning everything in the lower series and giving the lower series' drivers a chance to win races is to limit any currently full-time Cup driver with either 100 career starts or three full seasons to a maximum of 10-12 races in any of the lower series, therefore, limiting the number of races that Carl Edwards, Brad Keselowski, Kevin Harvick, and especially, Kyle Busch can win, which would give drivers like Austin Dillon, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., Trevor Bayne, Justin Allgaier, James Buescher, and other young drivers coming up more legitimate opportunities to win races, while at the same time, giving them the experience of running against the best the Cup series has to offer. After all, there have been only four races in the Nationwide Series this year won by non-Cup drivers (Stenhouse 2, Allgaier and Reed Sorenson 1 each), which is actually up from two last year (Allgaier and Boris Said). The Truck Series hasn't really done much better this year, though Dillon has won twice (and should have about five wins right now), ThorSport teammates Matt Crafton and Johnny Sauter have each won, and Ron Hornaday, Jr., who's just about as experienced as just about any Cup driver, has also won twice this year. 146. cjs3872 posted: 09.22.2011 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, when NASCAR changed the rule, outlawing drivers that were not eligible to earn points in a series to be eligible for Rookie honors in that series, they also allowed for a driver competing full-time for the first time in a upper series to be eligible to win Rookie honors, regardless of how many races he/she had run in a given year, so the old seven-race limit no longer applies. For example, if Trevor Bayne got a full-time Cup ride next year, he would be eligible for the the Rookie of the Year, since he was ineligible this year, despite the fact that he'll run as many as 17 Cup races this year. I believe that Danica Patrick will be eligible for Nationwide Rookie of the Year honors next year for the same reason. Even though she has far surpassed the old seven-race limit, the new rules would allow her to run for Rookie of the Year honors, since she will be racing in the Nationwide Series full-time for the first time next year. Tony Stewart hopes to run her in 8-12 Cup races next year, but she would still be eligible for the Cup rookie of the Year honors in 2013, since it would be her first year running full-time in that series. 147. Mr X posted: 09.22.2011 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My take on Jimmie Johnson's championship hopes without the chase since 2004 would state that he would be a 3 time champion, in 2004, 2006, and 2009. In 2004 Jimmie had 4 wins in the first 20 races, and was quite consistant. They had a 232 point lead on Gordon. But then at Indy, The Glen, and MIS Jimmie blew three straight motors, most likely experimenting with their engine package. Without the chase I believe the engine failure at Indy may have happened anyway, Indy is a big race that you try to win regardless of the points system, Indy is also a hard track on engines, and Johnson probably had the same engine package as Jeff Gordon, who dominated and won the race. I believe the engine failure at Indy would've happened with or without the chase. The engine failure at Watkins Glen is a puzzler, I dont know what caused it, there are no road courses in the chase so there wouldn't really be any reason to experiment with the package, other then just trying to build more power, which the engine builders are always trying to do, or Jimmie may have just damaged it during the weekend, by twisting it too high, or downshifting too early, or it may have just been a part failure. I also believe the engine failure at Watkins Glen may have happened anyway. The third engine failure at MIS, I doubt it would've happened, having potentially blown two motors in the last two weeks, they would've given JJ a conservative motor. JJ would've lost a good bit of his points lead but not all of it. Jimmie also crashed later in the year at Richmond and Kansas, and no team plans on crashing a car. The motor problem at Talladega I also believe would've happened anyway, HMS had a great restrictor plate program in '04, and no other Hendrick engines blew, and the end of the season is no time to sit on your ass and be conservative under the old points system either. After Pocono Jeff had only 2 bad finishes, compared to all of Johnson's potential bad runs, I do think under the old points system Johnson wins the title, but he wouldn't have beaten Gordon by much. 2005 wasn't Hendrick Motorsports strongest season, the speed advantage they had in 2004 was largely gone in 2005, Jimmie didn't have his strongest year and Jeff had a terrible year. No body beats Stewart in 2005 under the old system. 2006 was definitely Jimmie's year, the team, the driver, everything was consistantly good, and looking at their results during the year they didn't even seem to put all that much emphasis on the chase, they were extremely fast all year, and I dont think anyone could've beaten them if the put in 100% effort in all 36 races. In 2007 Jeff and Jimmie were just as fast as one another, but Jimmie had too many bad or mediocre finishes, and I cant pinpoint any of them that were caused by "experimenting," and if they were in what races is Jimmie suppossed to eliminate a 353 point deficit. The 2007 title would've gone to Jeff Gordon. He was too solid, dispite Jimmie's 10 wins. When you eliminate the chase, teams obviously change their strategy during the season, and 2008 is the best example of Jimmie turning it on come chase time. In 2008 I have no doubt that the 48 team would've performed better then they did in the regular season, however the change in strategy happens to more then just the 48 team, the 99 would do the same thing, and they would probably be more careful about not getting any 100 point penalties that actually stay with them the entire year. In 2008 the 99 had an incredible season, and I dont think the 48 could keep up with them in 2008. Hendrick Motorsports again lost a lot of their speed advantage between 2007 and 2008. In 2009 Hendrick Motorsports got their speed advantage right back, and Jimmie led 2238 laps in 2009, and laps led is IMO the best guage as to who has the fastest car. I dont think that Jimmie would've let Tony and Jeff get ahead in 2009. The would've showed their hand 36 times and I believe won the title. 2010 was a mix of 2005, and 2007. Kevin was extremely fast and consistant all year, and Hendrick Motorsports again lost some speed advantage between 2009 and 2010, races at Martinsville and Michigan were proof. Jimmie had too many bad or mediocre finishes, and like 2007, I have trouble with how many of them are caused by experimenting, as in 2004 Indy is a race you try to win, but they seemed to completely miss the setup there last year. The crashes at Charlotte, Darlington, Daytona, Talladega, none of those were experimenting, the broken axle in the Daytona 500, Kevin finished great in virtually all of these races, and as in 2007 if any of them were caused by experimenting, in what race does Jimmie make up 285 points. Advantage Kevin Harvick. 148. Eric posted: 09.22.2011 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @146, You forgot something about Jimmie Johnson in 2010. His Pit Crew was below average that year despite having 6 wins and was replaced during the chase with Jeff Gordon's pit crew. 149. 00andJoe posted: 09.22.2011 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872 - Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks for the information! (Of course, considering that, that makes Landon Cassill's decision to earn points in NNS even more inexplicible...) 150. Eric posted: 09.22.2011 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson in 2011 faces stuff that he didn't have to face in the past. Jimmie this year has been slow off the truck for the 1st practice this year like at Chicagoland before getting faster. Jimmie's qualifying isn't that great this year and had his worst qualifying average since his rookie year so far this season. This year at times is prone to fuel mileage races and that is a big problem for Jimmie Johnson. Jimmie Johnson has a history of not being great at saving fuel outside of Phoenix. The other thing Jimmie has to face this year is Dale Earnhardt Jr. is in the same shop as the 48 team instead of Jeff Gordon. This is the first of many years that Jimmie's and Dale's team will be in the same shop. That is a huge downgrade for the 48 team. Jeff Gordon is the better driver of the two in terms of feedback and the information has to be reliable for sharing notes with. Dale Jr. isn't a great qualifier and it shows for qualifying setups despite qualifying for Hendrick is down this year as a whole. 151. Eric posted: 09.22.2011 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to type to Mr. X, not cjs3872. 152. 00andJoe posted: 09.22.2011 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric - There's also the fact that Johnson and Knaus have had strategy calls come back to uncharacteristally bite them multiple times this year, too. (Dover, for one.) 153. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.22.2011 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my opinion, if we raced under the classic format all these years and if what we accurately state about drivers adapting their strategies is correct, then Jimmie wins the title in 2004 and 2006 for sure, and I'm tempted to add 2008 as well. Like everyone else here has said, there's no way that the #48 team blows motors in 3 straight events if those races actually meant anything towards the title. 2005 was all Tony Stewart. In 2006, Jimmie won the title under both the cha$e format and the classic format so I think it'd be safe to say they'd have won that year either way. In 2007, nobody was going to touch Gordon under the classic format no matter how differently Jimmie or anyone else would have adapted their strategy. 30 top 10 finishes for the season pretty much locks up the title for you. For 2008, I think Jimmie still could have won the title if his team had to take the approach to making every race count. 154. TLarson83 posted: 09.23.2011 - 2:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) People who hate The Chase: NASCAR is an American sport...and Americans love playoffs. That's why we have it, friends of mine who don't even watch NASCAR always ask me "who do you like in the Chase?" this time of year. It gets people talking. Best comparison is the NCAA Basketball Tourney...you really think VCU or Butler is better than some of the teams that didn't make the Final 4?? Probably not, but it's the playoffs, come to play and get it done or you're out, sorry bout it. But I also agree with the commenter that said maybe we put too much emphasis on the Championship as NASCAR fans, and not the weekly races. Jamie McMurray said himself last year that there is no way in hell he'd trade his Daytona 500 win, his Brickyard 400 win, or his Charlotte win for a chance for the Championship in the Chase, so there ya go. 155. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.23.2011 - 10:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fact is JJ and the 48 team have been far and away the class of the sport for the past decade. He is very much a deserving 5 time champ. Although I think his title years should be '04, '06, '08, '09, and '10. We can't overlook the experimentation factor. Last year, after winning 3 of the first 5 races, they ran Race 6 at Martinsville with a full blown R&D setup. The cream rises to the top, and the 48 team would rise no matter what system gets thrown at them. The only knock on JJ's title run is that his competition are mostly head cases. He is the only driver out there with championship level talent, top notch equipment, the ability not to fall to pieces when adversity strikes, and the heart of a champion. Throw in the injury that. Hampered Gordon from '08 through '10, and his path is somewhat clear cut. 156. cjs3872 posted: 09.23.2011 - 10:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I think there is too much emphasis on the championship, especially now since it doesn't mean as much as it used to when you had to perfrom well at EVERY kind of track. but I also think that championships can be overrated. After all, does anyone truly think that Joe Weatherly (25 wins, no crown jewel wins) and Terry Labonte (22 wins, two crown jewel wins, which were the two Southern 500 wins that bookended his career) were better drivers than Bobby Allison was? Both Weatherly and Labonte won two championships, while Allison only won one. Before Jeff Gordon came along, Allison won more crown jewel races (13) than anyone else. More than Petty, Yarborough, Pearson, Waltrip, and Earnhardt. And Allison was more versatile than most of those other drivers I mentioned, which is why I rank him the second-greatest driver in history, behind only Richard Petty. (He'll drop to third when Jeff Gordon passes him on the all-time wins list, which will occur with his next win.) Yes, championships are important when building a career resume, but they are not the "be-all and end-all", as they are in other sports. For in racing, winning the big events are just as important, if not more important. After all, Trevor Bayne, Regan Smith, and Paul Menard might never win again (and I think there's a very strong possibility that none of them will ever win again), but they won three of the five crown jewels on the circuit this year, which makes 2011 the first year that three of the sport's crown jewel events had been won by drivers that had never previously won before. Interstingly, Bayne's and Smith's wins were the first wins of any kind in a major touring series in their careers, and may possibly be their only ones. There's a stronger possibility of that being true with Smith than Bayne, since Bayne currently drives Roush's #16 NNS car, though for how long remains to be seen, especially if those rumors that were first mentioned by Sirius, and then on the 9/20 edition of Speed's NASCAR Race Hub that I mentioned in post #134 about Bayne possibly getting replaced by Stenhouse in the #21 car are true. After all, with how happy the Woods seem to be with Trevor (especially with him not wrecking their cars, which he hasn't done since Bristol, except for Talladega, when he became involved in someone else's mess), if he gets replaced in that car by Ford and/or Roush, it would very possibly mean that his days at Roush may also be done, due primarily to lack of sponsorship, which as I mentioned in that post, is something I predicted months ago could very well happen. But the real question here is, would Smith and/or Bayne ever get a better ride than the one they've got if their current situations don't pan out? But back to the question of championships, and their lack of importance today. Considering that half the races in the Chase are on 1.5 mile tracks, though two are on lower-banked 1.5 mile tracks (Chicago and Kansas), two are on higher-banked 1.5-mile quad-ovals (Charlotte and Texas), while the title-decider is on a 1.5-mile variably-banked true oval (Homestead). Then there are the wild card races at Martinsville, Talladega, and the newly reconfigured Phoenix Int'l Raceway, meaning that the next two races at Loudon and Dover may be the most pivotal and telling of the Chase. I think NASCAR should make either the Brickyard 400 or the Southern 500 the first Chase race, so everyone would put a high degree of emphasis on it, like they used to. After all, they start the season with a crown jewel race (the Daytona 500), so why not start the Chase with one. NASCAR should also get rid of the Talladega Chase race, and put it where the Brickyard 400 currently is on the schedule (which is where the second Talladega race used to be on the schedule), since it's too much of a lottery, and end the season at Fontana, CA, or Las Vegas in a 500-mile race, just like it used to do at Ontario, CA in the 1970s. 157. cjs3872 posted: 09.23.2011 - 10:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you forgot to mention that Carl Edwards can't seal the deal either. Otherwise he would have won the title in 2008. If Matt Kenseth had cars that good, he would have beaten Johnson going away, since Kenseth doesn't make the mistakes that Edwards, Kyle Busch, and Kevin Harvick are prone to make. After all, Kenseth nearly beat out Johnson for the 2006 title with vastly inferior cars. What some of these other teams need to beat Johnson are drivers that can seal the deal. Sometimes I think some of the other drivers are afraid of success. Jeff Gordon's problem as far as potentially winning the title this year has to do with his crew chief. As good a crew chief as Alan Gustavson is, he seems to shrink when the pressure is highest. After all, other than the 2009 Southern 500 with Mark Martin, what other major accomplishment does he have on his record? And unfortuantely, what's happening in the lower series this year doesn't give me much hope for those drivers, as every young contending driver in the lower series is seemingly having trouble handling success, from Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. and Justin Allgaier in the Nationwide Series, to Austin Dillon and James Buescher in the Truck series. The moment one of them seem to have a grasp on the titles they are battling for, they make a mistake and open it up again for others. It almost seems to me that none of them can handle the pressure adequately. That is something that Trevor Bayne or Regan Smith may be able to teach some of these other drivers, because it seems that they can handle the pressure, while some of the others have not yet shown that capability. 158. 00andJoe posted: 09.23.2011 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR should also get rid of the Talladega Chase race, and put it where the Brickyard 400 currently is on the schedule (which is where the second Talladega race used to be on the schedule)" The problem with that idea is that the second Talladega race was moved from July to October for two very good reasons: avoiding the Alabama summer heat, and, even more importantly, avoiding the Alabama summer thunderstorms. 159. Sean posted: 09.23.2011 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "what other major accomplishment does he [Gustafson] have on his record?" I think bringing Mark Martin back almost instantly and having a five-win second-place season (after Martin's career was largely left to dead), then bringing Jeff Gordon back almost instantly and having an (at least) three win season where he could contend for the title (but the Chicagoland underperformance was odd) is more than enough. And I still don't get why anyone cares about crown jewel wins. Daytona and Talladega are all about luck. Charlotte and Indianapolis are mostly about car. Only Darlington is actually relevant among the "crown jewels" to me at this point. I'm far more impressed by drivers who win on the short tracks, 1-1.49 mile ovals (Darlington, Phoenix, Dover, Loudon, Rockingham RIP) and road courses than drivers who ride ridiculously fast cars to victory on car-centric tracks. Saying Gustafson hasn't done anything because he hasn't won many crown jewels is silly. Many, many fans did not take Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon seriously anymore at the start of 2009 and 2011, respectively, and they each had their best season in years. I think that's enough to prove Gustafson is one of the better crew chiefs. 160. cjs3872 posted: 09.23.2011 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, you are right about them moving the second Talladega race to October to get out of the heat and storms, but that was years before the Chase, and that event should not have a bearing on the outcome of the championship due to the extreme luck factor. They should either put lights at Talladega and move the second race to August or get rid of that event all together. After all, they put lights at Daytona so they could run the Firecracker 400 at night so they could continue to run that event on the weekend closest to July 4. After all, at the time of day that race was being run, no major newtork would carry it live. In fact, carrying that event live in the morning, which is when it was run prior to 1998, is illegal now, due to FCC Children's Programming laws, which mandate about 3-5 hours of children's programming every weekend. I stand by my other statements in that post, saying that either the Brickyard 400 or the Southern 500 should be moved to be the Chase opener, since that would put one of the crown jewels at the start of the Chase, meaning every team would have to put a high priority on winning it. Many of the top teams today that know they'll be in the Chase use the Brickyard 400 as a throwaway race, since it's run on a one-of-a-kind track, so they put vwery little-to-no emphasis on doing well in that race. and I also think that NASCAR should run the season finale at either Las Vegas or Fontana, CA, and have it be a 500-mile race, just like the 500-mile races at Ontario that ended the season in the 1970s. Running the final race out west would also mean that there would be a much lower chance of weather affecting the outcome of the championship, although the 1983 season finale at Riverside, CA was finished under caution due to rain. 161. cjs3872 posted: 09.23.2011 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, I agree that Gustavson is one of the best crew chiefs in the sport. But I also think that he has a history of shrinking in the key moments. Gustavson's a key reason why I picked Matt Kenseth to beat Gordon for the championship. Gordon has a ton of momentum going into the Chase and what happens? The teams falls on it's collective face at Chicago. The fault for that falls right on Gufstavon, nobody else. 162. 18fan posted: 09.23.2011 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When Kyle drove for Hendrick and Gustafson was his crew chief, there were some races were I thought he was amazing as a crew chief and some that I thought he was terrible. He has bright moments and he has some "WTF were you thinking" moments. I do, however, think he is better than Steve Letarte and definitely better for Gordon than Letarte was because he's proven when he has top-level drivers(Kyle Busch, Mark Martin, Jeff Gordon) he puts them in position to win races and Gordon is the third driver that Gustafson has taken to the chase since he became a crew chief in 2005(Kyle in 2006-2007, Mark in 2009, and Jeff this year) and both Kyle and Mark got a top 5 points finish with Alan as their crew chief. 163. cjs3872 posted: 09.23.2011 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, when Kyle Busch was at Hendrick Motorsports, he was so out of control that Vince Lombardi wouldn't have been able to keep him in line, but you are correct in saying that Gordon is the third driver that Gustavson has put in the Chase. And Mark Martin was too conservative to win a championship, having finished second five times, but never having won a title. I've never had a problem with Gustavson as a crew chief. Just the opposite, actually. I think he's one of the top five to seven in the sport. I'm just saying that the bigger the situation is, the less reliable he has seemed to be. Now, as those that have viewed my posts can attest to, I've never been above being proven wrong, and if Gustavson can make the right cars and calls and provide Gordon a championship, I'll admit I'm wrong about Gustavson, but I just don't see him making the crucial decisions that a Chad Knaus or a Jimmy Fennig would make, just as I've said about certain drivers pulling the trigger when needed, or others being smart and conservative when needed, and if proven wrong, I'll admit so. 164. Mr X posted: 09.23.2011 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Personally I believe the season should end where it ended every year from 1987 until 2000, and I guess the season was supposed to end here in 2001, and thats the Atlanta Motor Speedway. Atlanta has a long history in the sport, and a long history of fantastic racing, the race three weeks ago only stimulated that trend. Unfortunatley they did reconfigure it, and it doesn't have quite the same charm it used to have, but Atlanta still has the best racing of any intermediate in NASCAR, especially this year with the rock hard tires. Year after year this place proved it was a great track at which to hold a season finale, the 1992, 1993, and 1996 seasons all had really great races here in which a champion was crowned. I definitely believe regardless of where the season finale is, it needs to be a 500 mile race, regardless of the points system we are declaring a champion, and ending a long grueling season. It needs to be ended with a long race. Homestead is a great track, they put in the right amount of progressive banking, and the track has a very gradual entrance into the turns and a gradual exit out of the turns, much like Atlanta, which allows the drivers to actually run anywhere between the wall, and the white line. Clean air isn't too big of a factor there either, and with a soft tire, they could really put on a show. I've said this before and I'll say it again, Homestead is the only track that has been repaved or reconfigured in the last 15 years that has actually benefited from the operation, and it's not like the old and flat Homestead set the bar that high, plus its really the only intermediate that you really can't call a cookie cutter. The season should end with a 500 mile race on a non-cookie cutter track, and definitely not Las Vegas, that track with this year's tire is a complete snooze fest. The abrupt exit off turn 2, and entrance into turn 3, means the groove never really makes it all the way to the wall, and the bumps in the low groove ensures that the drivers really can't make any good time on the bottom. Every driver is funneled into the middle line at speeds high enough that aerodynamics are a huge factor, clean air is a huge factor, and track position prevails all day, to the point where the drivers can't even race eachother in the middle of a run. Every lead change, or change of position anywhere in the pack happens in the first 5 laps after a restart, under caution, or during green flag pitstops, and because fresh tires mean nothing, fuel mileage races are likely. The race in March was a prime example, Matt Kenseth was fastest in all the practice sessions, and was on the pole, but a flat tire 10 laps in put him a lap down, it took him until lap 200 to get the free pass, and once he did 11th place was all he could muster. Tony Stewart led 163 laps, but had a pitroad penalty, was sent to about 15th place and couldn't pass anyone, later he took 2 tires, and the lead under caution, and pulled away to a 4.5 second lead. Kevin Harvick started 26th and it took him 150 laps to make it to the top 5, most of which was done on pitroad, he met the same fate as Stewart and never recovered. Denny Hamlin started from the rear, and spent the entire race getting to 7th, again most of the work was done in the pits, because nobody can pass anybody. You can leave, or turn off the tv 5 laps after the final restart and nothing will change, and the sad thing is Las Vegas was reconfigured just as the track was starting to age, and the races were starting to become more interesting. I really, really hope that Bruton Smith never gets his wish of getting the season finale here. I believe if this racetrack were anywhere else other then the tourist hotspot that is Las Vegas, this track would be struggling to sell tickets. IMO its the worst track on the schedule. 400 miles is bad enough, we certainly don't need 500 miles or another date here. Fontana Speedway I think is a good track, its aged enough that the groove is at the wall, and the track isn't as high banked as MIS, so clipping the appron helps the car turn instead of spinning it out, Fontana has the widest groove of any track on the schedule, the bumpy worn out pavement means it also pays dividends to come in and get yourself 4 Mr Feelgoods, you can pass, you can race, and clean isn't a big issue. However the track produces much better racing on a hot sunny day, late in the year then it does on a cloudy, overcast day early in the year. The race this year, other then the finish was a bit of a snoozer, however the race there last October was fantastic, one of the better races of 2010 IMO. If Fontana is going to keep its date on the schedule, it needs to be a 500 mile race, on a sunny day in late summer or fall, near the end of the season, not in March. 165. cjs3872 posted: 09.23.2011 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason I believe that the final race of the season should be a 500-mile race out west has to do with several factors. First, as I have already mentioned, running a race out west that time of year greatly reduces the chance of weather becoming a factor, though it does not eliminate it. also, running a race out west late in the year would give NASCAR the flexibility to end the year in December if it so desired. Actually, it would not be such a bad idea for NASCAR to open the season at either Fontana, CA, or Las Vegas for a 400 or 500-mile race on the week between the Conference Championship games and the Super Bowl, though with so many NASCAR drivers competing in the 24 Hours of Daytona, I can see where that could be a problem. Remember that NASCAR actually opened the season racing on the road course at Riverside, CA through 1981. It wasn't until 1982 that the Daytona 500 became the first race of the season. Now for why the final race should be a 500-mile race on a non-RP track. Quite frankly, a 400-mile race on a high-speed track is too short to end the season. Such a race could take less than two-and a half hours under the right circumstances, and would almost certainly take less than three hours. (Dale Jarrett once won a 400-mile race at Michigan at over 172 MPH average.) But a 500-mile race would put a higher premium on reliability, not that that's such a big factor these days, but it would also stress the teams, and pressure can cause even the best to make mistakes. (Remember David Pearson in the 1975 Daytona 500 when he somehow choked away a sure victory with just barely more than six miles to go? The Wood Brothers, who Pearson were driving for that day didn't get a payback from the racing gods from that incident until this year's Daytona 500.) It also would last longer, giving fans a longer look at the sport to end the year. 166. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.23.2011 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "does anyone truly think that Joe Weatherly (25 wins, no crown jewel wins) and Terry Labonte (22 wins, two crown jewel wins, which were the two Southern 500 wins that bookended his career) were better drivers than Bobby Allison was?" In fairness to Weatherly, he was killed at Riverside as the two time defending champion (that does not get the attention it deserves as far as being a major happening in NASCAR's history). Maybe he was just starting to truly get it. Imagine if Jimmie were killed at Sears Point in 2008 (God forbid). What would we be saying about his career? Plus we have to look at the era he raced in. Back then, the Southern 500 was far and away NASCAR's biggest race. It took the Daytona 500 about 10 years to become their premiere event. The World 600 was also in its infancy. But overall I mostly agree. It shouldn't be all about championships. When looking at somebody like Bobby Allison (great example), you have to ask why only 1? The answer is because he never really found a home and had to play ride roulette for his entire career. Promising early rides with Mario Rossi and Holman Moody fell out from under him due to external business affairs. Him and Junior Johnson were two bulls in a pasture. Roger Penske's Matodors were unreliable, as were Bud Moore's Fords. His deal at Harry Ranier didn't work because him and Waddell were like him and Junior, and even the team he won his championship with, DiGard, saw the owners trying to screw him every step of the way. When he finally settled in with the Stavolas, their cars weren't elite except at Daytona and Dega. So the fact that Bobby even got one championship along with 85 (!!!!!) wins is amazing. Just as a side note, I get chills sometimes when they play that commercial showing the past champions of NASCAR and they show Bobby after finally winning the Cup. I also start to get chills when they show Dale celebrating a championship until I see the banner behind him and realize it is from 1991, by far the weakest of his championship seasons. "you forgot to mention that Carl Edwards can't seal the deal either." He is in the headcase category, which leads to his mistakes. His ability to put on such a polished TV front is borderline disturbing. The fact is he is not a sane person. "The moment one of them seem to have a grasp on the titles they are battling for, they make a mistake and open it up again for others." Ain't that the truth! The Truck and NWide title fights are having a very 1991 Winston Cup-ish feel to them, except somebody is always there to momentarily capitolize on the mistakes. In '91, Dale spent most of the second half of the season trying to give it away, but nobody wanted it. "Now for why the final race should be a 500-mile race on a non-RP track. Quite frankly, a 400-mile race on a high-speed track is too short to end the season." I agree, but I think Homestead is a good track to end it at. It isn't your typical cookie cutter with its progressive banking done correctly unlike other tracks (Bristol, I'm looking at you). It reminds me of the Old Atlanta a bit. I wouldn't mind them extending those races to 500 miles. 167. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.23.2011 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, you forgot to mention that Carl Edwards can't seal the deal either. Otherwise he would have won the title in 2008." What did Carl in during what has been by far his best season, was flat-out causing the Big One late in the race. Carl had the luxury of watching Jimmie Johnson and Kevin Harvick cause wrecks at restrictor plate tracks by bump-drafting in the turns and still made the same mistake. I know he had a mechanical issue at Charlotte the next week, but I still think the mistake he made at Dega did him in. I am glad to see some people giving Alan Gustafson the credit he deserves. He guided Kyle Busch to two wins as a rookie, then they won two more races over the next two seasons, and finished in the top 5 in points in '07. The only reason 2008 was such a bad year for him was because his driver that year was Casey Mears, who can get you the occasional top 10 finish in good equipment, but he's nowhere close to even being decent overall. He then got Mark in '09, and they not only won 5 races but damn near won the championship. After Alan and Mark struggled in '10 due to HMS shuffling key personnel to try and get Dale Jr up to speed, the #5 team members all went to the #24 car of Jeff Gordon, and Jeff is looking like his old self. So yeah, I'd rank Alan in the top 10 of current Cup crew chiefs for sure. "In fairness to Weatherly, he was killed at Riverside as the two time defending champion (that does not get the attention it deserves as far as being a major happening in NASCAR's history). Maybe he was just starting to truly get it." Agreed. Joe Weatherly was undeniably great. He likely would have racked up a lot more numbers if he'd gotten the chance to run a full career. "DiGard, saw the owners trying to screw him every step of the way." Apparently they had a history of doing that. In DW's book he wrote in 2004 called "Going Around in Circles", he talked about going through that with them and said something to Ricky Rudd (who was about to replace him) along the lines of, "You're making the biggest mistake of your life". 168. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 09.23.2011 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oops, I made an error in the first sentence of my previous post. What I meant to type was: "What did Carl in during what has been by far his best season, was flat-out causing the Big One late in the race at Talladega." 169. 18fan posted: 09.24.2011 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember reading that Bill Gardner told Darrell after the 1979 season that he would not spend that much money trying to win a championship ever again. 170. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.24.2011 - 10:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Gardner was a straight up con man. In the book "Miracle" that is mostly about Bobby, but also touches on the other members of the Alabama Gang, Bobby recalls his contract with Bill was something like 88 pages long! There was one paragraph saying that if any event were rain delayed, Bobby would have to give up all his earnings to DiGard. Bobby objected, so Bill sent it to his secretary to "remove", but Bobby found it was simply moved to another page. He also screwed crew chief Gary Nelson and engine man Robert Yates badly over those 4 years. Hell, Yates was so disgusted he decided to leave NASCAR for good before changing his mind. Quite simply, Bill Gardner was your typical slimy business man. And he also made a dumb move with Ricky Rudd. As a youngster that just had a really solid '81 season, but didn't win, he canned him after just one year. Remember this was the topsy turvy season when the cars were downsized, Darrell won 11 races, and defending champ Dale Earnhardt also went winless. 171. cjs3872 posted: 09.24.2011 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, Earnhardt also had his team sold out from under him that year, as Rod Ostelund sold the team to Jim Stacy, who did not like Earnhardt at all. As a result, Earnhardt not only drove the #2 car, but also drove races for Richard Childress and Bud Moore that season. It would be hard to imagine something like that happening to a reigning champion today, but then again, the biggest race next year may also be run without it's reigning champion, as it is beginning to appear that Trevor Bayne will not have a ride for the 2012 Daytona 500, unless the rumors that began to circulate in the last week prove to be just that. But if they're true, Bayne would probably be out at Roush all together, something I predicted months ago would happen, and the Earnhardt situation in 1981 is, to my mind, the only comparable thing. And by the way, one of the reasons that Darrell Waltrip was able to make up so much ground on Bobby Allison late in the in 1981 season was that Allison fell out of a few races, which was commonplace back then, where I don't think Waltrip did. That right there would make up a big part of the deficit, even if Waltrip only ran 5th-10th in every race, and he was winning a great number of those races. 172. Stat Brat posted: 09.25.2011 - 1:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) All this talk about "Pop's" Weatherly's got me thinking about Curtis Turner's career, and how he ran every race he entered(262 in Cup,Convertible)full throttle all-out, all the time. Turner started 184 Cup events and had 17 wins,but in the rag-tops he won 38 of 79 events with a 48.1 win %, including a 24-0 record against Joe Weatherly in 1-2 finishes in that division. His win % in Convertible's is higher than Juan Manuel Fangio's F1 record of 47.7 % I think Turner was one of the greatest character's of Nascar lure and gets greatly overlooked considering his stature and respect from his peers like the great Tim Flock once said that "Curtis Turner was Nascar's greatest driver" or Glen Wood saying "he could do more with a race car than anybody I ever saw"and one of his greatest legend's is his run in the 1950 Mexican road-race. 173. the_man posted: 10.08.2011 - 10:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on an eleventh place finish: "We had a top-10 car but the fuel mileage races haven't been fun to us this year. We had to save quite a bit of fuel there at the end. It was just one of those days where we were from sixth to 12th about all day and that is where we finished, in 11th. One of those days where things just didn't fall our way. If we could have had a couple lucky breaks I think we had a better car than where we finished. We didn't get any scratches and gained some points on some guys around us and can't wait to get to New Hampshire." 174. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #55 Travis Kvapil & #95 David Starr Out using fastest 43: #13 Casey Mears & #32 Mike Bliss 175. Robert Nelson posted: 07.13.2012 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Kyle Busch 246 Carl Edwards 219 Jeff Gordon 203 10th. Tony Stewart 116 (11th driver to get 100 points) F1 points Chase Kevin Harvick 30 Brad Keselowski 19 Carl Edwards 14 F1 points real life Chase Kevin Harvick 30 Tony Stewart 25 Carl Edwards 15 Dale Earnhardt Jr. 15 176. ch posted: 07.16.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor for the #18 should just be Doublemint for consistency. 177. Anthony posted: 04.05.2014 - 3:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The start of something special. The next 9 weeks would be an epic struggle. 178. Evan posted: 11.13.2014 - 8:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Correction Who:WINNER Tony Stewart #14 Office Depot/Mobil/"Printing Done Right" The Story:Office Depot put several printed messages on the hood of Tony Stewart's Chevrolet throughout his championship run. Sources:Getty images, I have the race on tape somewhere, Jayski.com 179. Bodyblower posted: 03.22.2020 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TJ Bell and the 50 withdrew. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: