|| *Comments on the 2011 Tums Fast Relief 500:* View the most recent comment <#242> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Smitty posted: 10.29.2011 - 10:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How the hell is this "rained out" when: a. qualifying wasn't even scheduled until later, and b. the sun is out and the weather forecast is fine for the rest of the day? The answer couldn't possibly have anything to do with NASCAR's fervent desire to have Ford and Jackass Jack Rou$h win the championship, by gifting Edwards & Kesenth the top starting spots on a track where those drivers generally don't fare very well? Nah, it couldn't be that.... 2. Cooper posted: 10.29.2011 - 11:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not sure if a rain out is good or bad? Obviously it sucks that Carl gets the pole and the #1 pit box, but Carl isn't a very good short track driver so I'm hoping when faster guys catch up to him, he gets knocked around and finds trouble. NASCAR is freaking hilarious....They think people forget their decisions and that no one can see through their mindset (Just like last week when Austin Dillon went below the yellow line, not once; but twice!) And now the truck series gets priority over their precious Sprint Cup Chase which they have poured millions of dollars into. Smitty I don't think they're smart enough to confiscate a plan like you have pointed out, but it's something for the conspiracy theorists to ponder (possibly the same people who think Dale Jr. get a super restrictor plate in 2001) Smitty, don't worry Brad will take care of those Fords. The goal for Brad is to get within 15 points. (Brad and the #2 team control their own destiny if they are behind 15 points or less.) 3. Smitty posted: 10.29.2011 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope you are right Cooper. Brad's about the only driver left in the Chase that I can root for. I used to like the Chevy teams before "G.M." became "Government Motors". Perhaps just like the Fords had team orders last week to screw the Chevy teams, it'll work the opposite way this week -- not in terms of drafting or 2-car tandems (irrelevant at Martinsville) but in some other way. Once the Chevys & Fords get done wrecking each other (oh, please let it happen) Brad and his Dodge come out on top or at least very close! I'd even root for the big-eared alien in that other Penke Dodge if I have to, though once you've been a Rou$h driver you're tainted for life as far as I'm concerned**. I don't hold that against Trevor Bayne since he doesn't technically drive for Rou$h, even though he is forced to obey team orders. ** MAYBE an exception for Marky-Mark, or good drivers that Jackass Jack screwed over such as Johnny Benson. 4. Cooper posted: 10.29.2011 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR elected to have a practice today, rather then the qualifying session. I strongly disagree with that because qualifying is much more important than track time. (IMHO) Track position+pit stall selection. I would have qualified today, then in tomorrow's race throw a competition caution at lap 30. That way, you get qualifying in, plus you give the teams the first 30 laps of tomorrow's race to dial there car in. 5. cjs3872 posted: 10.29.2011 - 12:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, I think NASCAR's making the right decision by scrubbing qualifying. Something had to be cut out due to the weather delay this morning, as there is no way that NASCAR could do a full 60-90 minute Cup practice session, qualifying, which would take about 45 minutes to an hour, and the Truck race. And it's a bad idea to send the cars out cold turkey to qualify. Had there been a practice session yesterday, I could see them doing a qualifying session, but there was no practice at all for the Cup cars, so NASCAR made the right decision here. In fact, I'm not even sure that they're allowed to run a qualifying session without having a practice session prior to qualifying anyway. I believe NASCAR's bylaws prevent them from having a qualifying session without having a practice session first. However, having qualifying rained out sure puts the Roush drivers at an advantage, since neither Carl Edwards or Matt Kenseth would have ever gotten anywhere near the front for the entire race without qualifying being rained out. They would have battling in mid-pack the entire race, and still might when everything shakes out. The only way either would probably have seen the leaders without the use of pit strategy would be if the leaders came up to lap them, because Roush puts no emphasis on Martinsville, and hasn't for years. His last win there came with Kurt Busch, and that was in this race nine years ago. He just uses Martinsville as a throwaway race, hoping his drivers finish as well as they can. I believe that any of his drivers would do much better at Martinsville if they were with another team. Mark Martin's run there in this race last year proves that, as he probably had the best car he's ever had there, and he's been running Cup races at Martinsville since 1981. 6. 18fan posted: 10.29.2011 - 12:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, Mark Martin's run last year had nothing to do with car performance, it was all rear bumper damage that gave him more downforce. And Mark won at Martinsville twice with Roush and had some good runs there. And Roush has had several good runs at Martinsville over the years, mainly with Jeff Burton, who had 1 win, 8 top 5s, and 11 top 10s in 14 races from 1997-2003. 7. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.29.2011 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm gonna be cold tomorrow. Hopefully a great Brad run and typical Roush Racing mediocre Martinsville run will warm me up. I like Matt a lot, but after that garbage last week I really hope a Roush car doesn't win it. Especially Carl. I have never liked phonies. So with that said, here is my pre race preview of the cha$ers: Carl: Not as bad at Martinsville as some people are making him out to be. He has the inside track to the Cup right now, but he has also avoided any bad luck through 6 races. Can he keep that horseshoe for another 4 races? Matt: Notoriously hates Martinsville, but his results have been fairly good recently. Does a good job of keeping his head and coming through in the end. Has looked the most like a champion so far in the cha$e, but had the bad break at Chicago, and the really tough ending last week. To be just 14 back of somebody with no hiccups so far has to have them feeling pretty good. Brad: The ultimate wildcard. He is just 18 points back despite the power steering issue at Dover and the stinkbomb at Charlotte. Absolutely nothing to lose. In May, even the most die hard Brad fans were openly wondering if he killed his career by going to Penske. Now, as Cooper mentioned on the Dega page, after all the politics of the debacle of that race, it looks like an excellent decision to join a smaller team and a smaller manufacturer (number wise). An excellent run at Loudon has to be encouraging, and him starting 3rd is a great thing. Paul's pit calls should once again be top notch. Smoke: The forgotten one in this title fight. From "we don't deserve to be here" to "holy shit, we won the first two cha$e races" to being overlooked, he is just 19 points back, and Tony Stewart is still driving that car. Don't sleep on him. Harvick: Should run great here. Last week's wreck didn't hurt him as bad as it could have, but he will need some help to get back into it. Pretty much the last guy with a realistic shot. Everyone behind him will need some pretty weird shit to happen. Can he make up 26 points in 4 races? Of course. Will he? Again, predicting anything with Kevin and that team is a shot in the dark. KyBu: Title hopes are pretty dim, but he still has the talent to make it interesting. There is still a lot to be answered for him. Can he improve on his career best points finish (5th in '07)? Can he finally win a race as a cha$er (his one win in a cha$e race was his rookie season and he wasn't a cha$er)? Can he avoid his usual end of the year melt down? Or has he finally turned the page? JJ: Needs a miracle, but he also has a lot on the line even without a shot at the title that doesn't involve divine intervention. Can he get back in the Top 5 and continue being perfect for his career in that category? Can he win a 3rd race and avoid a career low in wins? KuBu: Can forget the Cup. Too inconsistent, so I am officially calling him (and everyone behind him) done. But he still has something to race for. Can he get another win and not finish behind his upstart teammate in both points AND wins? Can he soothe his ego a bit and finally finish in front of JJ for the first time in 7 years, somebody he openly detests? Can he get through these last 4 races without yet another radio meltdown? Will Steve Addington finally have enough and kick his ass? June: Been his best track by far in the last 5 years, the only track he has consistently been worth a shit at. Will he finally end this winless streak? Can he finally start building some week in and week out momentum? Will he ever awake from this coma he has been in since 2005? Gordon: Has a chance to take out his frustrations of a disappointing cha$e on the field now that all he has to worry about is wins. Probably victim #1 of the Politics 500 at Dega last week. Has a great chance to take the thunder away from the front runners in points by once again being Jeff Gordon again. Denny: So much for history. He might even get a Top 10 points finish. This race will be the test of how far this team is truly off. If they don't run good here, they need to take a long hard look at their package for 2012. Newman: Racing simply to avoid embarrassment at this point. It seems like everytime he looks to once again become a contender for the first time since his heyday ('03-'05, a LONG time ago), he falls back. He follwed a decent '07 season that was derailed by too many mechanical issues with a dramatic '08 Daytona 500 win..... then disappeared, splitting with Penske by the end of that year. A decent but winless '09 and a dramatic Phoenix win in '10 was followed by another disappearance. A strong mideseason this year which saw him firmly implant himself in the cha$e and win at Loudon has led to yet another disappearance. Ever since the rest of the field caught up in engineering, he just can't sustain anything. 8. cjs3872 posted: 10.29.2011 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed, 18fan, but that was quite a number of years ago that Roush had his good runs there. It's just that he no longer puts any emphasis on Martinsville, or any of the short tracks, for that matter. After all, like I mentioned, it's been nine years since he's won at Martinsville, and he's rarely even contended there since. In fact, his best driver at Martinsville over the last six years no longer even drives for him, and that's Jamie McMurray. When McMurray drove for Roush, at least he had one driver that could run well there, but now that he's gone, Roush doesn't have anyone that runs well there, and he could care less about that, since almost all his focus is on the intermediate tracks. You could even say that Roush doesn't focus on any of the "oddball" tracks, of which Martinsville is one, along with Darlington (where he hasn't won this century), Pocono, Indy (where he's never won), or the road courses (where he hasn't won since 1997). For Roush at Martinsville, a top five is basically a victory, and a top ten finish is considered more like a top three or five. 9. Eric posted: 10.29.2011 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Roush has won at Pocono 3 times in this century. He there with Greg Biffle last year. Carl Edwards also won at Pocono in 2005 & 2008. 10. Cooper posted: 10.29.2011 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick is already involved in some on-track altercations. During practice, Greg Biffle accidentally got into the back of him, and Kevin took it personally. He nudged Greg out of the groove in turn 1, which resulted in some cat and mouse game on the backstretch. When both cars came into the garage (being pushed by crew members), both Biffle and Harvick took a swing at each other with their cars. Greg got out of his car and walked over to the #29 garage in which the two drivers had a discussion. Of course this isn't the first altercation between Biffle and Harvick, as they got into a more heated altercation at Bristol in 2002. 11. cjs3872 posted: 10.29.2011 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes Eric, you're right about Roush doing better at Pocono, but that's the only oddball track he's done well at in the last 12 years or so, though you're shorting him a win there, as he actually has four there. Kurt Busch also won there for Roush. The point I was trying to make was that Roush historically, especially since the Chase started, has not not really put any emphasis on tracks that have their own character, since none are in the Chase. But you are correct in pointing out my oversight about Roush not faring well at Pocono, though I was trying to finger out a bigger problem with Roush here. And as long as Roush continues to do this, none of his current (Kenseth, Edwards, Biffle) or future drivers (Ricky Stenhouse, Jr.) will ever be able to show their full potential and become complete drivers, like Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, or Kyle Busch, since they're hamstrung at certain kinds of tracks by Roush's not putting emphasis on those tracks. 12. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.29.2011 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ZOMG! Harvick in an altercation? No way! Seriously, that will be Kevin's legacy. He's the guy who always got pissed off. Always. He had to throw fuel on every fire he saw, no matter the situation. The thing is Biffle isn't even in the cha$e and shouldn't be a contender for this race, while Kevin is still in the hunt and has to be one of the favorites for this race. Why waste your energies on him? But again, that is classic Harvick. 13. Eric posted: 10.29.2011 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, I forgot to check before that Roush actually won at Darlington in this Century. He won with Biffle in 2005 & 2006 at Darlington. You correct are Roush struggling some at Darlington though. Take away 2008, Roush has good, not great finishes at Darlington since 2007. Take away Carl Edwards, Roush only had 1 top 5 there starting in 2007. Roush is able to field top 10 cars there. He has at least 2 cars finish top 10 cars a race there since 2007 except for 2010. Roush has 4 top 5 finishes at Darlington starting in 2007. The catch is 2 of those top 5 happened in the 2008 Darlington race. The other stat with the top 5's is Carl Edwards got 3 out of the 4 top 5's at Darlington for Roush starting in 2007. 14. cjs3872 posted: 10.29.2011 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know Eric, I completely forgot about those wins Greg Biffle had in the 2005 and 2006 Southern 500s. Given how much I cherish the crown jewels of the sport, that's almost impossible to believe. But I believe that had more to do with Biffle's driving than it had to do with car setup, though the setup of the car must be good to win at Darlington. And Biffle is still their best driver there. Looks like I'm eating my words here today. But when you look at Roush's success the last five years, it's been almost exclusively at the intermediate tracks. And although that's good when chasing a championship, since half the races are on intermediates, I don't think it's very good for the drivers there, because it's not allowing them to become complete drivers. And the way Roush focuses on just a certain number of tracks, it's just not going to be able to showcase the talents of his drivers in the future, either his three Cup drivers for next year, assuming David Ragan is gone next year, as well as Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. in the future. 15. Bronco posted: 10.29.2011 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate crew members getting involved in driver to driver disagreements. They always end up making the situation worse and escalate it to the point where officials get involved. Harvick's crew is especially notorious for this. I'd like to see drivers settle their issues one on one rather than their crews making it an all out brawl. 16. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.29.2011 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its funny you mentioned Jamie Mac's good runs at Martinsville while at Roush, cjs. There is a good parallel between that period of his career and June's stint at HMS. In each case, both are simply awful fits at those respective organizations. And both, during those stints, could only list Martinsville in the category of "tracks they were worth a shit at". Kinda odd. Sorry I used the past tense for that when June is still at HMS, and for some reason signed a long extension, but I didn't know how else to do it. Even weirder: before KuBu melted down at Richmond and he finally found his groove, I compared Brad K's runs at Penske with Jamie Mac at Roush. The one track he was "worth a shit" at in that time? Martinsville. With finishes of 12th, a season best 10th, and 19th despite being trapped by a caution after pitting and blowing a RF. 17. Cooper posted: 10.29.2011 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF---the answer to your parallel equation is pretty simple really. Martinsville is more about driver skill than team skill and/or equipment. A car at Martinsville can have no body on it and still run competitively. Therefore the driver has more of an input at Martinsville than any other track on the schedule(excluding road courses). Even with struggling teams, the constant is the driver. Dale Jr./Jamie Mac/Brad all possess great driving skill. In my opinion the three drivers you mention all rank in the Top 15 as far as driving skill go. (Yes, Dale Jr. is a talented race car driver! He just likes to focus on things like fantasy football, his ranch and his bar and grill.) 18. 12345Dude posted: 10.29.2011 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "KuBu: Can forget the Cup. Too inconsistent, so I am officially calling him (and everyone behind him) done. But he still has something to race for. Can he get another win and not finish behind his upstart teammate in both points AND wins? Can he soothe his ego a bit and finally finish in front of JJ for the first time in 7 years, somebody he openly detests? Can he get through these last 4 races without yet another radio meltdown? Will Steve Addington finally have enough and kick his ass?" This news comes from a great site. I know a lot of sites create fake rumors and stuff, but this site is great. It has all the news behind the scenes in nascar, a week before anyone else gets them. It was one of Time Magazines Top 50 web sites. Ok enough talking this site up.... Anyway I found this on the site last week about Kurt Busch and Steve Addington. "UPDATE: Kurt Busch responded to widespread reports that his crewchief, Steve Addington, will leave the Shell-Pennzoil Dodge team at the end of the season, saying team owner Roger Penske holds an option on Addington's contract that will keep the veteran crewchief atop the #22 pit box in 2012. Busch told Sirius XM NASCAR Radio's Sirius Speedway with Dave Moody, 'Roger Penske told me he has a contract option on Addington. It was not even up for discussion back in August, which is the normal contract season.' He accused outside parties of trying to distract the team from its championship run, which currently has him seventh in points, 27 behind leader Carl Edwards." Basically this means that Steve Addington has no choice but to stay with Kurt in 2012. I have a feeling that means he's going to half ass his job next year. Is that his fault? No. Because no one can work with Kurt Busch. Because of Steve Addington not working 110% Kurt Busch is going to cry like a baby on the radio 3 times as bad. It's not only going to kill his teams chances, but it will hurt the whole organization. Brad needs Kurt to run successfully. There are only two teams at Penske. They need to share a lot of notes, and work good together. They only have 2 cars, were all the other top teams have 3 to 4 cars. On a side note, this is another crew chief leaving Kurt Busch. If you were Kurt Busch wouldn't you wonder why 2 crew chiefs would want to leave you? Because he's great on the track. Wouldn't you realize that your attitude has cost you... 1. 2 Elite Crew Chiefs 2. Roush Equipment (Which is FAR better than Penske equipment) 3. A Shot at the 2005 Championship 4. Getting beat by your brother (because whenever one thing goes wrong you have a complete meltdown!) And people on here could add a lot more! Ehhhh anyway on to happier stuff... nascar race is tommaro. At the best track they have!!! 19. 12345Dude posted: 10.29.2011 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "KuBu: Can forget the Cup. Too inconsistent, so I am officially calling him (and everyone behind him) done. But he still has something to race for. Can he get another win and not finish behind his upstart teammate in both points AND wins? Can he soothe his ego a bit and finally finish in front of JJ for the first time in 7 years, somebody he openly detests? Can he get through these last 4 races without yet another radio meltdown? Will Steve Addington finally have enough and kick his ass?" This news comes from a great site. I know a lot of sites create fake rumors and stuff, but this site is great. It has all the news behind the scenes in nascar, a week before anyone else gets them. It was one of Time Magazines Top 50 web sites. Ok enough talking this site up.... Anyway I found this on the site last week about Kurt Busch and Steve Addington. "UPDATE: Kurt Busch responded to widespread reports that his crewchief, Steve Addington, will leave the Shell-Pennzoil Dodge team at the end of the season, saying team owner Roger Penske holds an option on Addington???s contract that will keep the veteran crewchief atop the #22 pit box in 2012. Busch told Sirius XM NASCAR Radio???s Sirius Speedway with Dave Moody, ???Roger Penske told me he has a contract option on Addington. It was not even up for discussion back in August, which is the normal contract season.??? He accused outside parties of trying to distract the team from its championship run, which currently has him seventh in points, 27 behind leader Carl Edwards." Basically this means that Steve Addington has no choice but to stay with Kurt in 2012. I have a feeling that means he???s going to half ass his job next year. Is that his fault? No. Because no one can work with Kurt Busch. Because of Steve Addington not working 110% Kurt Busch is going to cry like a baby on the radio 3 times as bad. It's not only going to kill his teams chances, but it will hurt the whole organization. Brad needs Kurt to run successfully. There are only two teams at Penske. They need to share a lot of notes, and work good together. They only have 2 cars, were all the other top teams have 3 to 4 cars. On a side note, this is another crew chief leaving Kurt Busch. If you were Kurt Busch wouldn't you wonder why 2 crew chiefs would want to leave you? Because he's great on the track. Wouldn't you realize that your attitude has cost you... 1. 2 Elite Crew Chiefs 2. Roush Equipment (Which is FAR better than Penske equipment) 3. A Shot at the 2005 Championship 4. Getting beat by your brother (because whenever one thing goes wrong you have a complete meltdown!) And people on here could add a lot more! Ehhhh anyway on to happier stuff... nascar race is tommaro. At the best track they have!!! Where are these question marks coming from :/ Ok re posted 20. cjs3872 posted: 10.29.2011 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, yes I actually compare Jamie McMurray's stint with Roush Racing with Trevor Bayne's current stint there, which I think has as strong possibility of ending at season's end, as neither driver's sunny personality fits well with Roush's gloomy demeanor, nor do the style of cars put out by Roush fit the driving styles of either McMurray or Bayne. But I wouldn't exactly compare McMurray's stint at Roush with that of Earnhardt's at Hendrick. That's because McMurray actually accomplished some things at Roush, including one more victory currently, though he has never qualified for the Chase. Other than a fuel mileage win at Michigan, what has Earnhardt really accomplished at Hendrick in four years? Other than running a little more consistently and making the Chase twice, he's not been much better at Hendrick than David Ragan has been at Roush, and Ragan's been the weak link there since he got there in 2006. 21. cjs3872 posted: 10.29.2011 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, not only does Penske have only two cars compared to three or four for most of the rest of the teams, but he doesn't even have any other Dodge teams to lean on when they get behind, because Penske is, like he was when he ran the AMC Matadors from 1972-'75, the only car owner currently running that brand. 22. 12345Dude posted: 10.29.2011 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "12345Dude, not only does Penske have only two cars compared to three or four for most of the rest of the teams, but he doesn't even have any other Dodge teams to lean on when they get behind, because Penske is, like he was when he ran the AMC Matadors from 1972-'75, the only car owner currently running that brand." That's also a good point I didn't think of that. And Steve Addington was such a good fit for Penske. Now he's stuck there for another year. It's going to bring the whole team down with him. Being a Brad K fan I'm not happy. I know it's way to early to look into 2012. But still. Should try to be positve Brad Keselowski is 3rd in points! And hes awesome at Martinsville. 23. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 10:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I am here. I have my Brad K 2011 cha$e hat, and. The weather is beautiful after a really cold early morning. Ready for some beating and banging. 24. 12345Dude posted: 10.30.2011 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cool have fun at the race DSFF! 25. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IMO its between this place or Atlanta as to what is the best track we have left. I hope Jeff Gordon leads at least 19 laps today, which would put him up over 3000 here. 26. Schroeder51 posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon may get his first ever Martinsville DNF today as he has an overheating problem. 27. jabber1990 posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN really? you say "caution" then you show why the caution is out, why not show it live? 28. cjs3872 posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of caution flags, NASCAR announced this morning that there would be a 3-lap penalty for any driver they believe intentionally causes a caution flag to come out for the rest of the season. My question is what took them so long? however, I don;t think that particular length penalty would be fair for all tracks. For instance, a 3-lap penalty at a place like Martinsville should be a 2-lap penalty at a place like Texas or Homestead, due to the length of the track. but it's nice to see NASCAR go out and say they will penalize a driver heavily for intentionally causing a caution flag. Now, will they actually go through with it when and if it happens? Or is it an idle threat? And they should continue with this policy beyond this year. After qall, no driver should be able to intentionally cause a caution flag on the heels of what happened at Richmond. Although that wouldn't have affected Paul Menard there, since he was already the last car running at the time he was told to intentionally spin out to bring out the caution that allowed Kevin Harvick to win the race. 29. Smiff_99 posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I do NOT understand why Edwards pitted on that caution.... 30. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, they don't have any lights here, it might be shortened due to darkness. 31. Schroeder51 posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Vickers is just getting into everybody today. 32. Smiff_99 posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, this shit is CRAZY, and we haven't even hit lap 100. DSFF, you'd better be taking pictures, dude. 33. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Dear Brian Vickers Could you please remain in control of your vehicle long enough for a race to take place, thanks. Sincerely: Everyone involved with the running of the 2011 Tums Fast Relief 500 34. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Will NASCAR please park Vickers. I'd like to go home tonight. 35. OldSchoolNascarDude posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who will Vickers not wreck today? 36. Schroeder51 posted: 10.30.2011 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure I've ever seen the batteries fall out of a car before. 37. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somebody call my work for me and tell them I'll be late tomorrow. 38. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy cow is Brad out to lunch. In one stretch he got passed by Skinner, the Front Row cars, and 3 wrecked cars. 39. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What is wrong with Carl? Brad just passed him, so he must be having a problem. 40. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Phase 1 of the Paul Wolfe reclaimation, the car has gone from being a steaming pile of cow shit to a 15th place car. Now they need to keep improving. 41. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go Big Daddy! 42. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know how the rest of this race or season is gonna go, but Paul and Brad have established themselves as a combo to be reckoned with. 43. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who would've thought that the 99 would run this terrible. Jeff has now led over 3000 laps here. Fantastic race so far. 44. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stewart just lost a lot of time on that pitstop. 45. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now I found out why... 46. NicoRosbergFan posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else notice that Biffle hit the brakes as soon as Kenseth got off of the high line? 47. New 14&88 Fan posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard spins out Kurt Busch, KuB is not gonna let that go. 48. RaceFanX posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Joey Lagano's #20 had an Interstate Batteries paint job in this race to celebrate 20 years of Interstate sponsoring Joe Gibbs' teams. This was the first time Interstate had been on the 20 as opposed to the 18 car. 49. 18fan posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is the stupidest thing I've ever seen Greg Biffle do. 50. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even if Carl isn't going to be penalized, Matt and Brad still have an opportunity to leave this race with the points lead. 51. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How is Brad this much better then Kurt is at Penske? Go Brad! 52. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For roughly the 20th time today Brian Vickers has gone around. 53. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Welp, cross Matt off the list for potentially talking the points lead today. 54. OldSchoolNascarDude posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's probably karma for Kenseth. 55. Schroeder51 posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looking good for Carl to win the championship now... 56. 18fan posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Brian Vickers is around yet again, this time trying to payback Matt Kenseth. 57. NicoRosbergFan posted: 10.30.2011 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hot damn! I had Tony than Jimmie in G14's contest! 58. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How does Brian Vickers still have a job? I honestly think he is the biggest moron still on the track today. NASCAR should park him permanently, he's in the way, he gets wrecked, he gets mad, and he wrecks someone else. Everyone at Red Bull is wasting their time with this idiot. I'm also not really sure how I feel about Tony winning this race, I like Tony but this win feels kinda fluky to me, terrible car, pit strategy, and a GWC, however this race was insane. All the cautions(there were way too many IMO) put him in position to win this race, he did a damn good job on the GWC but this win is still a bit sour to me. 59. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also sucks for Brad Keselowski. 60. Cooper posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race ruined NASCAR for me. I could bitch and moan about how upset I am, but NASCAR doesn't deserve it. All the drivers need to be parked. What I seen today wasn't a race, it was a video game. Now I know why people want the chase gone....I'm so angry, words can't describe it. 61. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Me: Wow, who DIDN'T Vickers hit today? He drove like a 19 year-old rookie who had never seen Martinsville before. Fans in the grandstands: Thankfully, not us. 62. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 5-time is 1 full race out with 3 to go. Um, your still on life support 5-time. 63. 18fan posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hated watching Kyle run top 5 the whole day and then get screwed by Matt Kenseth's right front tire going down after contact on pit road with Kevin Harvick. Carl Edwards runs like epic crap all day and takes advantage of attrition to finish 9th. I think I know where the golden horseshoe is right now. 64. Todd posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anybody that whines about that race is a fool.After the farce at Dega this was back to real racing.A great win by Smoke.I never thought he could get by JJ on the high side.He's clearly the guy to beat.Cousin Carl will fold these last 3 races. 65. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This race ruined NASCAR for me. I could bitch and moan about how upset I am, but NASCAR doesn't deserve it. All the drivers need to be parked. What I seen today wasn't a race, it was a video game. Now I know why people want the chase gone....I'm so angry, words can't describe it." 4,000 wrecks:check 6,000 cautions: check 10,000 lead changes: half-check pissed off drivers: double check so by this, the race should been good right? btw cooper, you did bitch when you said "this race ruined NASCAR for me." That is bitching by my book. ;-) 66. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 3rd win of the season for Smoke. He has officially declared his presence back in this championship hunt. After Dega, I said he was going to need to regain what he had at the beginning of this cha$e and I certainly hope he lives up to the quote he made in Victory Lane: "It ain't going to be an easy 3 weeks for him". With JJ being a FULL RACE behind, this is one interesting championship battle, and hopefully it goes all the way to Homestead. Brad took a BIG hit in points today with that spin in the final laps. Lucky for him it was Martinsville so he only fell to 17th. With this current point system, a 27 point deficit with 3 races to go is bigger than one would think. Still, I think he's got a top 5 position in points all but wrapped up. 67. . posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not a fan of Carl Edwards usually, but I hope for the sake of the Chase he wins this championship so we don't get stuck with a champion that ran as poorly as Tony Stewart did for most of this year. On an unrelated note, RIP Russ Wallace, father of one of the greatest NASCAR families ever. 68. Bob posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All you bitchers and moaners need to get an effin life.That was the best race of the year imo.Stewart showed major cojones. 69. BON GORDON posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seen the last 40 laps. A lot of cautions and was so impressed by Tony Stewarts pass on Johnson at the end. Wanted Gordon to win but 3rd is good after the last month or so. 70. Mark posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great win by the 14 team.Stewart is clearly the guy to beat.3 wins in the chase is damn impressive. 71. Smokey posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell yeah!!Smoke rocks.That was old school!! 72. DaleJrFan20 posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Classic Martinsville, which was nice after the bullshit Politics 500 last week, but a bit too much dumbassery for my tastes. Vickers needs to GTFO for massive fail, even if his failed attempt to wreck Kenseth made me burst into laughter. 73. 18fan posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Except for lap 463-464, which is when Kyle wrecked, I thought this race was awesome. Kyle really has improved at Martinsville and had a top 4 car all day. He can still possibly get a top 5 points finish because he has been fast at Texas with Dave Rogers as his crew chief but hasn't had great luck(like leading 232 laps in fall 2009, Kyle's first race with Dave, before running out of gas), Phoenix is a wild card and we won't know what to expect until that weekend, and he and the 18 team has improved at Homestead like he has at Martinsville. It's a longshot to get a top 5 points finish, but I think if Kyle runs like he did at Charlotte at Texas and Homestead, he could pick up a win or two before the season ends. 74. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fun race that would have been much better had Vickers not been in it. It would have ended 30 minutes earlier and not ruined the end. Also, when me and Dad got back to his truck we found out Vickers had hit that too. It is just Carl's year. Nothing bad can happen to him, and those around him have all sorts of bad luck. This year has officially joined 1991 and 2002 as seasons in which we will have a champion by default. 75. LordLowe posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't forget about 2003 DSFF kenseth lucked his way into a championship that year too 76. Sebastien posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awesome race ! 77. cjs3872 posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mr X, how could you not think that Edwards was going to run terrible, at least early in the race. It's Martinsville and Roush is terrible there. And Edwards' title hopes are, I blieve in trouble. Yes he finished about seventh, but now he's got the experience of Tony Stewart just eight points behind him, and Stewart's already beginning to play mind games with Edwards. This title might be Stewart's to lose, and he was one of the worst of the Chase drivers during the season, showing just what a farce the Chase is. Now when I said before the Chase started that Jeff Gordon wasn't going to win the title, I thought the weak link on his team was his crew chief. Sure Alan Gustavson gives him great cars, in fact the best he's had in a decade. But why I think that Gustavson may has never won anything big, and why Gordon will probably never anything big again as long as Gustavson is his crew chief is that Gustavson has a knack for making bad pit calls, a lot like what happened at Rod Osterlund's team when Dale Earnhardt drove there. Their pit calls were so bad that even David Hobbs criticized them from the booth, and even doubted the judgement of those in charge of race day strategy on that team. Well, as good as Gustavson is at seeting a car up, he's got a track record just as bad when it comes to making pit calls. His call to pit Gordon out of second place with just 45 laps to go proves that to me, as it was one of the dumbest pit calls of the year. There was no way that Gordon was ever going to make up that ground. In fact, I believe the only reason he made it back up to third was the two or three cautions that followed. And by the way, the three races that Gordon won this year had nothing to do with pit strategy. If that had come into play, Gordon wouldn't have won those races. Also, Matt Kenseth did the one thing that I never thought he'd do, and that was to make a BIG mistake, when he shoved Brian Vickers down the backstretch. That resulted in a problem that haunted him on the following restart, causing an incident that also involved, among others, Kyle Busch. The payback later, which in my mind should get Vickers sat down for the next race, at least, was largely inconsequential, since nobody else was involved. But this is at least the second time this year that Vickers has virtually stopped on the track to pay someone back. He had done that to Stewart at Sonoma ealier in the year. If you're going to pay someone back for an earlier incident, at least make it look somewhat good, but what Vickers did there was obvious, and should get him suspended for at least the next race. There's no place for that in the sport, no matter the situation, especially in the light of the tragic events of the last two weekends. 78. 00andJoe posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #58 - There was no GWC... Brian Vickers now has a new nickname: "Wrecking Ball". Shame for Brad getting spun out with two to go, that probably ended his championship hopes. Kenseth - stick a fork in him, he's done. 79. 00andJoe posted: 10.30.2011 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and by the by, it's worth noting that Kyle's pit crew melted down. AGAIN. 80. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, I thought that Carl would run about 12th to 20th all day, I knew they would be bad, but I didn't think they would run 25th and get lapped twice. I knew they would leave with a smaller points lead then the one they came in with, but I didn't think they would give all of it away, once again they were lucky, and I now realize there was no GWC. I should've stated that. 81. StevenWallaceCan'tDrive posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a championship caliber drive by Tony Stewart. This is going to be an interesting final 3 races. We're either going to see the first of multiple championships by a talented young guy like Edwards, or the solidification of the legacy of one of the greatest American drivers of all time in Tony Stewart. Or Harvick will fulfill the potential of Earnhardt's former team a decade later. And finally, Brad Keselowski could be the second coming of Alan Kulwicki, and upset the big names and seasoned veterans around him by racing smarter and winning one for the underdogs. 82. Anoynomous posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Stewart wins the championship he will be the first owner / driver champion since Alan Kulwicki. 83. StevenWallaceCan'tDrive posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Kyle Busch continues his run of bad luck in the Chase. Runs out of fuel at Chicago, gets wrecked out at Talladega, gets wrecked out at Martinsville. He was running top 10 in each of those races, and actually has been having a strong Chase overall. He hasn't beaten himself in this Chase, which is new for him, but he's cost a shot at the title by others mistakes. Shame, but his will come in time, and he'll appreciate it all the more because of years like these. 84. Anoynomous posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #81 you have the best screen name ever :) although I belive he now wants to be know as "steve" rather than "steven" 85. cjs3872 posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Mr X, Edwards extended his points lead on all the leading places except second. Edwards' margin to second dropped to eight points, but his margin over third rose to 21 from 18, margin over fourth rose to 27 from 19, and margin over fifth rose to 36 from 26, so his margin over every position in points, except for second place, so Edwards would be in good shape, except for the fact that Stewart has moved into second, and Stewart has already begun to play mind games with Edwards, like Darrell Waltrip and Dale Earnhardt, Sr. used to do. In fact, Stewart himself used the same strategy against Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus in 2005, and that pshyched the no. 48 team right out their game. Let's see if that works against Edwards and his team, as Edwards has never won anything big, except for this year's All-Star Race. 86. IHateSteveWallace! posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #83 Edwards has won a nationwide championship or two how can you say he's "never won anything big"? 87. 00andJoe posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #84: The Nationwide championship isn't anything big. ...wait, breaking news, this just in: there's a pileup on US-29 south of Danville. Reports are a blue car with number plate 83 started the accident. 88. Eric posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stewart did do a great job in taking a bad for the win and gain points on Edwards. Stewart and Edwards are equally matched at Texas in terms of equipment. Stewart had a much better car than his 12th finished showed in the Spring. Stewart made a mistake on pit road on that night that might have cost a top 5 or a win for that matter. The key for Stewart is not making mistakes on pit road at Texas. Stewart already made a mistake on pit road at Charlotte during the chase. If Stewart doesn't make a mistake at Texas, he shouldn't lose at of ground in point or Phoenix is the track that could cause a change in points due to Phoenix being reconfigured. It is unknown for that track if a 2nd groove could come in and what the changes in the banking would do for the drivers in race conditions, not test conditions. 89. Mr X posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) However they did spend the entire first 350 laps trying to make the Championship battle a four or five man race which was what I was alluding to, and as I stated above, the 99 team got incredibly lucky today, the 18, 2, and the 17 were taken out in incidents.(Its unfortunate to see how far the 18 team has slid during the chase.) The 99 missed all the chaos in the late laps, and escaped with just minor wounds. We'll find out how infectious they are in the next 3 weeks. This just wasn't quite the race I expected, the spring race was a little better, however that largely has to do with Brian Vickers ruining the race for everyone. He was involved in 5 cautions today. It was still very good, but Brian needs to be parked, he has become at least as big an idiot as Montoya. He drives over his head constantly, he drives aggresively in situations that don't call for it, he drives defensively, gets in the way, gets wrecked, gets mad, and causes an unnecessary caution by wrecking someone else. Driving hard every lap is fine, but only if you can manage to do it without going over your head. Brian doesn't have those skills, I believe his frustration comes from running like crap for his entire career, he has 2 wins with huge asterisks next to both of them, a restrictor plate win where he accidentally crashed the 2 leaders on the last lap, and a fuel mileage win. He has driven for sub-par teams, and spent most of the time under-achieving and tearing up equipment at either of them. He's outrun by Kahne every week. I feel his days are numbered in this sport and frankly its a good thing if he continues to do what he's done all year. 90. cjs3872 posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Usually Talon64 brings up statistical things, but I'll mention a few from this race. -Jeff Burton scored his 240th career top ten, moving past Ned Jarrett and into sole possesion of 20th all-time. -Dave Blaney moved into the top 50 all-time with his 394th career start, passing John Andrett for 50th all-time. -Kurt Busch passed Frank Warren for 48th all-time with 397 career starts. He'll become the 48th driver to start 400 races in the Cup series with thre season finale at homestead. -Mark Martin moved ahead of Bill Elliott for sixth on the all-time starts list with 827. -And also, Kyle Busch moved ahead of three series champions, including his brother Kurt, and into 21st all-time with 7,110 laps led. He was 24th entering this race, but moved past Dale Jarrett, Terry Labonte, and his brother Kurt into 21st place. however, he's got a ways to go to get into the top 20, as next up is Ricky Rudd, who led 7,874 laps in his career. And by the way, when I mentioned start-and-park drivers and teams, I had absolutely no clue that Landon Cassill would be a start-an-park for this race. When he start-and-parked, that brought the number of start-an-parks for this race up to eight. And also, Travis Kvapil, who was 16th, scored the best finish for Front Row Motorsports on a non-RP track this year. I wonder if there will be team orders for the Fords to help Edwards at Texas, such as not racing him, especially if it's the Wood Brothers car battling him late in the race. And by the way, if the Wood Brothers' car is battling with Edwards late in the race at Texas, it probably means that Edwards is having a very bad day. 91. Eric posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IHateSteveWallace!, Carl's Nationwide championship really isn't a big and Carl had an advantage in those championship in the Busch series a first place in 2007. Carl had the best equipment when won the Nationwide Championship in 2007 and that points battle David Reutimann wasn't even close. Carl won the championship by 618 points. The other thing with that year was the fact David was the only other cup driver racing for the Busch series for all 35 races that year. That meant Carl didn't win a champion in a close points race before. 92. 18fan posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 18 team right now is running like they did the first 23 races of the season, because they were solid from Bristol-Kansas, but not stellar like they had been all season, even though they did have a top 6 car at Kansas. 93. IHateSteveWallace! posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #88 Cassill's team has been running low on sponsor money lately and phoenix racing usually focuses on big tracks for their best finishes, and they're pretty much locked into the top 35 for next year anyway so parking early at martinsville was a good opportunity for them to save some money going forward. and it was a great run by Kvapil. too bad gilliland wrecked his was ahead of kvapil for most of the race. 94. IHateSteveWallace! posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i meant #90 for my comment not #88 sorry. 95. cjs3872 posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, the pit road mistake by Stewart that you eluded to occurred at Kansas, not Charlotte, when he just about spun into his pit. 96. Eric posted: 10.30.2011 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Vickers is a known bad short track driver in the cup series before this race. Brian Vickers isn't likely to be in the cup series next year. At this point, it looks like the two cup team Red Bull Racing has isn't going to be bought and the teams will fold as result. That means Brian is going to be out of a ride if there isn't a buyer like it appears. 97. Cooper posted: 10.30.2011 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know other people on this site have mentioned that we need to reward the front portions of a race more and you can add my name to the list. The swings are brutal in this sport right now. 15-20 years ago, a wreck late in the race didn't hurt you that much, because half the field was 10 laps down. Now, with 20 or more cars on the lead lap, one unlucky break screws your whole season up. Also with lucky dogs and wave arounds the first 90% of the race is useless, like Carl Edwards proved today. Running up front and leading laps is a dying formula to be a great NASCAR driver. Look at Kyle Busch. Dude runs up front every race he's in, but it doesn't mean nothing. He should be rewarded. I hated 2003 when Kenseth lulled his opponents to sleep with 11th place runs, and Carl is doing the same thing to me this year. It's hard to respect a race car driver who piles up 9th place finishes. Tony Stewart has won 3 out of 7 races in this chase! That's phenomenal. But somehow he still finds himself behind in points. That ain't right. I've always hated "consistency" and unfortunately that is what the NASCAR point standings is all about. And NASCAR made it worse this year by punishing bad finishes (Usually do to bad luck). NASCAR went the wrong way with their point system change and there's no change in site. I can't wait to do my yearly calculation of driver points based on driver rating. It usually shows me which drivers ran the best this season. 98. dUDE gUY posted: 10.30.2011 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Vickers is "The Sheriff" of stupidity. Was surprised he was running 10th with about 100 to go, but not surprised to see him piss away a good run. 99. Evan posted: 10.30.2011 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll take Stewart winning over Johnson any day and nice move by him to finally get the lead from that guy. Vickers stale attempt to try and pay Kenseth back was completely and utterly uncalled for and Vickers crashed about 5 times or so including the one that stalled Johnson's attempt to win. This year the rival drivers and teams have improved and the competition is getting closer to Johnson's rear fender. But is it too early to say Jimmie won't win? A wild race from witness even though my Sunday was into watching the football games. 100. Evan posted: 10.30.2011 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Vickers now has a new nickname: "Wrecking Ball". 101. CarlEdwards99 posted: 10.30.2011 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) to Cooper's point, the chase and having the championship decided in just a 10 race stretch has made the whole problem of wrecks costing guys even worse. We can analyze this whole "who's going to win the title:Carl or Tony" thing all day, but probably it's going to be decided by which one can avoid staying out from behind the wall in the last 3 races and thats the problem. 102. cjs3872 posted: 10.30.2011 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, a big part of the problem this year is that the point system offers no incentive to go out an race for position late in a race. After all, there's as much separation between second and third as there is between 42nd and 43rd. Again, the point spread between 11th and last is fins with me, but there has to be a bigger spread between drivers in the top ten positions. Below, I'm going to list an example, using the one point-per position formula used this year, of what the points spread per position should be: Winner-60 points, second place-55 points, third place-52 points, fourth place-49 points, fifth place-46 points, sixth place-43 points, seventh place-41 points, eighth place, 39 points, ninth place-37 points, tenth place-35 points. 11th would still get 33 points, and with the dropoff from there through the balance of the field being one point per position, 43rd and last would still be getting one point. I'd also leave the bonus points where they are. The only change I would ever consider making is using the old IROC system by awarding the top THREE lap leaders bonus points. Under this scenario, I'd award three points to the driver that leads the most laps, two for the driver that leads the second-most laps, and one for the driver that leads the third-most laps, but that's the only change I might make where bonus points are concerned. I would NOT award any bonus points for winning the pole, since that would effectively undo what the one-engine rule was designed to do, and that is eliminate special qualifying engines. 103. CarlEdwards99 posted: 10.30.2011 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I hated 2003 when Kenseth lulled his opponents to sleep with 11th place runs, and Carl is doing the same thing to me this year. It's hard to respect a race car driver who piles up 9th place finishes." it really is a joke that the year he wins 9 races and ran up front just about everywhere (including Martinsville) he doesn't win the title, but this year he could. Not that he has been bad this year, but he was clearly superior in 08. 104. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.30.2011 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Back home now with my ears ringing and actually having the chance to use a computer instead of my phone. Here are my random thoughts for the moment about this race that will not be tied together in any way: -As I mentioned here and on Brad's page, although their title hopes are a long shot at best now, him and Paul Wolfe have announced their arrival as a force to be reckoned with now and in the future. If their car is bad in the beginning, it can be fixed. Only at Charlotte did they never really get it up to speed. They would have been lapped in those first 120 laps were it not for the caution waving every 5 laps thanks to Vickers (ironically the same thing that would doom them in the end). -Also an outstanding recovery for Tony and Darian. They actually were being lapped during the 200 laps in the middle when Vickers decided to actually driver his car straight for a while and came back to win. I guess since I don't like Carl I will be pulling for them by default to win this championship by default. -Seriously, this championship "battle" really sucks. It might be even weaker than '91 and '02. -When did fans start having such trouble walking up and down the aisles of the grandstands? Sorry 1995 Subaru, I know I'm cutting in on your territory of slamming fans, but at least 7 people I saw simply were too out of shape to walk up to their seats. They would go up two rows and have to stop to rest. This is one out of shape culture. -I agree with Cooper about NASCAR's welfare system. Keeping everyone on the lead lap is really not a good thing. The first 4/5 of races anymore are just about keeping the car together. -Brian Vickers awful driving performance today really needs to be talked about. That was simply one of the worst things I have seen. It is hard to believe this is his EIGHTH season out there. He has simply never belonged on the Cup circuit, and only got there because him and Ricky Hendrick were such close friends. Even his shining moment, making the cha$e in '09 turned out to be an embarrassment as he scored the least amount of points ever in the cha$e, even less than Kurt Busch in '05. That is a pretty big deal when you remember Kurt was suspended by his team for the last two races that year. He just can't drive. As has been mentioned he will probably be gone next year, or at best doing start and parks. Even if somebody does buy the assets of Red Bull (which is very unlikely) why would they keep him? After 8 seasons he still doesn't get it. Even his best friend, JJ, called him out in his post race interview I saw online just now. And it inspired these jokes that I wish I had thought of: "...wait, breaking news, this just in: there's a pileup on US-29 south of Danville. Reports are a blue car with number plate 83 started the accident." "Brian Vickers is "The Sheriff" of stupidity. Was surprised he was running 10th with about 100 to go, but not surprised to see him piss away a good run." That is the sad thing, his car was pretty good. Even after all the damage from his first 4 wrecks he was battling for the Top 10. He just doesn't know how to race, especially on the smaller tracks. And yes, he will soon be "The Sheriff" of no mans land. -I would rather see Tony win the title than Carl, and this has nothing to do with my personal dislike of Carl (I don't care much for Tony either). Although Tony has been very erratic all year, at least he has 3 wins, including 2 in a row. I would rather have that as my champion than a guy with one win and a points lead that is the result of avoiding trouble above all else. Neither Tony or Carl have run like champs this year, but like in '91 and '02, the trophy has to be given to SOMEBODY. I would rather it be the uneven guy with the wins. Carl's season is so similar to Matt's in '03, one win at Vegas and a well placed horseshoe while everyone else ran into roadblock after roadblock. -Martinsville rules. Even with Vickers screwing up the flow of the race at the beginning and end, it was still awesome racing. And the atmosphere there is also great. They treat races at that track exactly like they should be treated: Like races. No flash and sizzle and glamor, just good old fashioned short track racing. 105. Michael Cole posted: 10.30.2011 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well this awful announcer has to say that this was some Vintage Martinsville Racing 106. 12345Dude posted: 10.30.2011 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't think the race was that good until the end. I find it funny the whole race Matt Kenseth was tied or a head of Carl Edwards in the points. Now hes pretty much gone from title contention. I know this is completely random but I wanted to bring this up because nobody hasn't. We racing fans like to complain when drivers make complete asses out of themself (Kurt Busch,Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, Joey Logano, Juan Pablo Montoya etc.) but we never really award drivers for cleaning up their act. I believe Denny Hamlin and Tony Stewart finally have. Denny has turned back into the guy he was in his rookie year. He's really done a 180. And the same with Tony. Tony isn't the Tony of old. Ever since he created this team, he has really changed. He didn't go insane when the team was struggling this year. Was he upset, yeah. But he didn't make a complete tool out of himself, and the team worked around the problems. I applaud Tony Stewart and Denny Hamlin for acting their age! 107. 12345Dude posted: 10.30.2011 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't think the race was that good until the end. I find it funny the whole race Matt Kenseth was tied or a head of Carl Edwards in the points. Now hes pretty much gone from title contention. I know this is completely random but I wanted to bring this up because nobody hasn't. We racing fans like to complain when drivers make complete asses out of themself (Kurt Busch,Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, Joey Logano, Juan Pablo Montoya etc.) but we never really award drivers for cleaning up their act. I believe Denny Hamlin and Tony Stewart finally have. Denny has turned back into the guy he was in his rookie year. He's really done a 180. And the same with Tony. Tony isn't the Tony of old. Ever since he created this team, he has really changed. He didn't go insane when the team was struggling this year. Was he upset, yeah. But he didn't make a complete tool out of himself, and the team worked around the problems. I applaud Tony Stewart and Denny Hamlin for acting their age! 108. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.30.2011 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "-When did fans start having such trouble walking up and down the aisles of the grandstands? Sorry 1995 Subaru, I know I'm cutting in on your territory of slamming fans, but at least 7 people I saw simply were too out of shape to walk up to their seats. They would go up two rows and have to stop to rest. This is one out of shape culture." People today are lazy. They expect things to be done for them, look back 50 years, very few people were out of shape and people worked for a living, now its just, ugh. even i'd like to see tracks install elevators for those who are handicapped or out of shape. It make more fan friendly and easier for everyone. 109. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.30.2011 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I know this is completely random but I wanted to bring this up because nobody hasn't. We racing fans like to complain when drivers make complete asses out of themself (Kurt Busch,Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, Joey Logano, Juan Pablo Montoya etc.) but we never really award drivers for cleaning up their act. I believe Denny Hamlin and Tony Stewart finally have. Denny has turned back into the guy he was in his rookie year. He's really done a 180. And the same with Tony. Tony isn't the Tony of old. Ever since he created this team, he has really changed. He didn't go insane when the team was struggling this year. Was he upset, yeah. But he didn't make a complete tool out of himself, and the team worked around the problems. I applaud Tony Stewart and Denny Hamlin for acting their age!" i wish this site had instead comment update or something. oh well. I pretty much agree with this. Tony has cleaned himself up since 2009, Hamlin i'm still on the fence about but he appears to have gotten better. Hell Robby (who isn't even competeive anymore) has cleaned up his act (age has more to do with it then anything else). But i agree with you 100%. 110. 00andJoe posted: 10.30.2011 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But is it too early to say Jimmie won't win?" No, it's not too early to say that. Everyone from Kenseth on back is toast. "Carl's season is so similar to Matt's in '03." Do you think it'll get them to change the Chase like they changed the system after Kenseth's Season of Snooze? (Naaah...) 111. cjs3872 posted: 10.30.2011 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you say that the first 4/5 of the race is about keeping the car together. Pardon me if I'm mistaken, but hasn't that basically always been the case? Back in the 1970s, '80s, and early '90s, that's the way most of the drivers that were successful raced. They would just wait and lets the competition race itself out. Darrell Waltrip even admitted that his strategy on raceday was to "let the guys who are going to blow up, blow up, lets the guys who are going to wreck, wreck, and then that will give me more room to operate". This aired during the 1986 Daytona 500. So a lot of successful drivers have been using the first 70-80 percent of the race to position themselves for the finish forever. And you've just started to notice that? 112. 1995z71 posted: 10.30.2011 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did Landon Cassill start & park? or did he really lose his brakes? 113. irony posted: 10.30.2011 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers needs to just go away. He actually somehow had a pretty good run going until Kenseth turned him, but he had no right to retaliate after the wrecks he caused. He gets mad about everything, and he doesn't have the relevance to justify it the way a Kevin Harvick does. I think he is a decent driver actually. He just needs to go away. There's too many up and comers with too much potential for a guy like Vickers to take up a Cup seat. Allgaier, Buescher, Whitt, Kligerman, Leicht, Cassill. 114. I Love Japan posted: 10.30.2011 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At one time, I was a huge Vickers fan, but his attitude and his underacheiving has took that away. Hell after today, I have no respect for the guy. He is mediocre at best. 2 wins that he didn't deserve, a Chase bid he didn't deserve. Stinking it up at Hendrick Mototsports in his colorful feminine paint schemes. Hell he's the least masculine driver on the Cup Tour. I don't like the guy at all and while you all have done a great job criticizing him, I want to be the leader of this anti-BV brigade. Vickers is the worst full-time driver in a decent ride and deserves to be pushed out of Cup. He's pissed everybody off with his prima donna attitude. I believe NASCAR will be a whole hell of a lot better when he retires. The guy just runs into everybody and can't get out of his own way. He's like a less-talented Jimmy Spencer. And that's bad, because Spencer had little talent as well. I'm sorryy for this long rant, but I've got to get this off my chest. Meet me on the clown's driver page LOL. Wild race today. 2 main thoughts- Tony still has it and JJ STILL isn't out of it. I can't wait for these last 3 races. 115. cjs3872 posted: 10.30.2011 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, 1995z71, he did a start-and-park, which I certainly did not expect. And it's not a good sign when exempt teams do start-and-parks. In fact, that's what got Robby Gordon knocked out of the top 35. Say what you wnt about him, NASCAR needs guys like Robby, and his run at Talladega last week, with Trevor Bayne's help, along with the run that Dave Blaney had in Tommy Baldwin's car is the kind of thing that NASCAR needs. And irony, maybe in light of his actions today, that Vickers and Steve Turner deserve each other. And as you mention, there are guys with potential like Cassill, Buescher, Kligerman, Allgaier, Stenhouse, and Bayne that could use full-time rides, and as of this moment, only Allgaier and Buescher have full-time rides secure for next year in any of NASCAR's top series, although Cassill seems to have the Phoenix Racing ride, if he wants it. Kligerman's future is somewhat up in the air, though Penske would like to run him in the Nationwide Series in a half-n-half schedule with Sam Hornish, Jr. And believe it or not, neither Stenhouse, the likely Nationwide Series champion of this year, or Bayne, this year's Daytona 500 winner, have secure rides for next year. If I had to guess, Stenhouse would probably be first in line for not only Roush's Nationwide program, if he has one next year, but also the Wood Brothers car for their partial schedule of 12-15 races. And Bayne might very well be out of a ride entirely next year, unless a mid-level Nationwide team wants to pick him up, which hopefully doesn't happen to him, as he deserves at least another top Nationwide ride after his likely release from Roush at season's end, with some Cup races, at least to defend his Daytona 500 title, as well as to run in the All-Star Race, for which he is eligible, but at this moment, doubtful to run in. 116. Spen posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since no one's said it yet, congats to Casey Mears on a season-best finish. Yeah, it was mostly by attrition, but nice job keeping his nose clean in a lousy car. "he's the least masculine driver on the Cup Tour" How can you say that when Scott Speed is in the field? 117. irony posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess I just naturally assume that Stenhouse and Bayne have futures with Roush/Wood Bros, and I may be wrong. They are still holding on to Ragan. Honestly if going only by talent alone I would choose Vickers over Ragan. I just see nothing in Ragan, outside of plate racing. Cassill will be lucky to keep his ride. James Finch can't stand to keep a driver for long. 118. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Y'all pretty much summed up what I think about Vickers too. He's been in Cup for 8 seasons, and his career highlights were lucking into the cha$e (once), a fuel mileage win, and spinning his teammate and the most popular driver in NASCAR to win at Talladega (which was during the final season of a 3-year span of running mediocre for Hendrick Motorsports, the best team in NASCAR). And his driving today was just inexcusable. 119. I Love Japan posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @117. I don't count Start-and-Parkers and/or teams that bad LOL. You are right- Scott Speed sure likes having purty nails LMAO. Dear gawd. AS for Ragan, he's bad but he's not the jackass Vickers is. He's just not interesting enough to pick on. Vickers sets himself up for it. Also a shout-out to Jeff Burton for having a top 10 today. It's his 3rd of the year. That's sad honestly. But I get he vibe he's building momentum to make one last good run next year. I think he can do it. 120. I Love Japan posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @119- if you want the long story of his career read my post on his page lol. His driving today was stupider when you realize that he needs a ride for next year. I think he'll end up with Turner in Nationwide and underachieve there too. 121. OldSchoolNascarDude posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1) I simply love Martinsville. It's nothing special, but the racing promotes itself. The atmoshpere is something that Nascar needs. 2) As mentioned by everyone else on here, today's effort by Brian Vickers may have been one of the most embarrasing performances by anyone in a sporting event this year. 3) At this point I see this as an Edwards, Stewart or Harvick title. Kenseth has got it done on the 1.5 milers this season, but is out of time, Brad and Paul are the best at strategy and working through an entire race, but is probably too far back and the 48 team probably doesn't have enough time. However, I won't count Jimmie and Chad out until they're 48 points back at the drop of the green flag at Homestead. 4) It will be intersting to see how much Edwards leans on Kenseth this weekend. Matt should be the guy to beat, but will he sacrifice his title efforts by helping out Edwards and the Roush organization? 5) I'm not overlooking next week, but I'm really interested about Phoenix. Something tells me that race may be the same as New Hampshire in terms of track position and pit sequences. I hope I'm wrong. 6) Overall, this wasn't the greatest Martinsville race for me. Way too many cautions and drivers lack of respect for each other hurt it for me. But, an average race at the paper clip is still better than good races at other tracks. Texas Motor Speedway, get ready, maybe something more unpredictable will be on the way. 122. irony posted: 10.31.2011 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #119, don't forget him spinning Mike Bliss for the win in the Winston Open, or whatever it's called now. 123. SoxFan24 posted: 10.31.2011 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) First of all I was at this race and it was very entertaining. Lots of side by side racing, beating and banging..that was a race. Not the bullshit pit strategy or anything like that. That was what a race is supposed to be I can't believe this wasn't talked about more than it was but Jamie McMurray's "fail" was halarious. Kurt Busch on his radio was pissed off before lap 10 about the racing. Its a short track dude! What do you expect? 124. I Love Japan posted: 10.31.2011 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @123- read my comment on his driver page for an extensive breakdown of his career- from somebody who followed it. And McMurray's fail was hilarious. He's another underacheiver. 125. Rusty posted: 10.31.2011 - 1:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Vickers in this performance was one of the worst things I've ever seen in NASCAR. Just awful. 126. Bronco posted: 10.31.2011 - 2:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Neither Tony or Carl have run like champs this year, but like in '91 and '02, the trophy has to be given to SOMEBODY. I would rather it be the uneven guy with the wins. Carl's season is so similar to Matt's in '03, one win at Vegas and a well placed horseshoe while everyone else ran into roadblock after roadblock." Are you serious? Carl has 16 top 5s and 23 top 10s, and there are still three more races to be run. Last year's champ has the same number of top 10s and one more top 5. Yes, he only has one win, but he has led laps and has been in the hunt for MANY others this year (Daytona 500, Bristol, Talladega, Darlington, Coke 600, fall Richmond & Dover). Not only that, but no driver has won more than four races this season, so having one win in comparison isn't that bad. His performance since the August Michigan race to now have been outstanding. He recovered from a speeding penalty to finish 3rd at Dover, finished 5th at Kansas with a bad handling car, finished 11th at Talladega after running at the rear the whole day, and recovered to finish 9th in a race where he nearly fell two laps down. Carl deserves the championship this year, and it looks like someone other than Jimmie is finally going to win a Sprint Cup. Were it not for Jimmie's self inflicted crash at Charlotte, he would be 3rd in points, 16 back with a prayer to still win it. Stewart can say what he wants to but Carl is clearly in control for the next 3 weeks, also remember no driver runs as well at Homestead as Carl. Dale Jr gets top 10s in both Martinsville races for the first time since 2008, this is his first top 10 since Chicago. If Allmendinger ever does get a Cup win, Martinsville would be a likely venue for it to happen. Matt had the point lead for most of the race, but it all came to and end when he backed it into the fence and lost laps getting it repaired. Brad is finally out of serious championship contention, thankfully. Congrats to him on winning 3 races and making it this far, but he isn't quite a championship caliber driver yet. Dale Jr has become one of the most aggressive short trackers out there, punted Ambrose and Kvapil at Richmond, then started the biggest wreck today, spun the #20 and nudged the #11 into the #2 in the final laps. Casey Mears gets his best finish ever for Germain. Travis Kvapil gets by far his best finish of the season and has back to back lead lap finishes for the first time all year. That hasn't happened since Richmond-New Hampshire in Sept 2008. Vickers was a caution machine all race long, despite all that he was still able to battle for a top 10 for much of the race. Overall one of the best races of the year, reminded me of the '09 Montreal race at times. 127. RaceFanX posted: 10.31.2011 - 2:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why the hate for Vickers? Yes, he had a bad race (who hasn't had a rough day on the job though). The guy is still a Busch series champion (from the era when that really meant something) and still a winner in Cup with two victories to his credit even without good equipment (he won from the pole for Red Bull...not exactly the best team in the garage). He's had a rough season (a year off can do that, see Ricky Rudd) but he's still Brian Vickers. 128. John Royal posted: 10.31.2011 - 3:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just in: Bristol has been officially deceased. 129. NicoRosbergFan posted: 10.31.2011 - 5:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "115. What?? posted: 10.30.11 - 11:38 pm Y'all people have no life. Especially cjs 3872, mr x, Cooper and Dale sr fan forever why write these long post? Y'all must be out of work drawing a check to have that much time to waste on this site. Go get a job!!! Losers..." I agree wholeheartedly that the frequency and length of the comments can be pretty loserlike. However, some of their comments, especially cjs's, can be very insightful. Also, DSFF was at the race and is really the only person on here who has any right to comment about what went on during the race. (Hope you had fun) Unless you don't live on the east coast, though, it does look pretty loserish to be scanning sites just to rail the people who use them when it is 11:38 PM. 129. John Royal posted: 10.31.11 - 3:38 am Just in: Bristol has been officially deceased. John, could you please elaborate? Notice that Jeff and Jimmie finished 2nd and 3rd, and they never banged someone all day. Boy, this comment is so long that I guess I am a loser too. 130. Anonymous posted: 10.31.2011 - 8:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan Smith was involved in a few accidents not of his own making and naps another top 15 finish. I remember when Regan struggled mightily to get top 25's consistently. It's amazing how much they have improved this year. McMurray's batteries fell out from his car after his incident with Vickers. 131. Brother Bear posted: 10.31.2011 - 8:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Jimmie had bumped Stewart on the last lap, he could have won. He had Stewart lined up and backed off. 132. Curran posted: 10.31.2011 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The dynamics of this championship battle are amazing. The oddest aspect of it though is that Edwards has run as mediocre as he has all season three of the last four weeks and has actually gained ground on almost all of his competition. He was out to lunch all day at Kansas before Nascar's free pass and a rash of cautions helped score him a top five, he played the pussy cat game throughout Talladega and still finished ahead of key title threats like Kenseth, Johnson, Harvick, and Busch, and now he runs outside of the top 20 for 80% of the day at Martinsville and gets a 9th place finish in what I can only describe as a lottery ticket weekend for the 99 team. I sit here today able to make two definitive statements about Carl's Chase so far. 1) In the first 7 races of the Chase, Edwards has been good. 2) In the first 7 races of the Chase, Edwards has been lucky. Both may be true, but I think it's safe to say that statement #2 is truer - And this is problematic for him because all good luck eventually runs out. I'm not going to guarantee this happens before the checkered flag waves at Homestead because we are now so close to the end, but with Stewart knocking on the door and Harvick and Keslowski still within striking distance despite their misfortunes the last two weeks, Edwards is going to need even more good luck to win this championship if he doesn't stup up his performance soon. I can't wait to see what happens at Texas!!! 133. Curran posted: 10.31.2011 - 10:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) During the pre race show, Marty Smith crowned Jimmie Johnson's retaliation of Kurt Busch at Richmond "The Worst Payback Attempt" he's ever seen. I think it now sits third after watching McMurray try to take out Vickers under caution and Vickers try to wreck Kensethwith 7 to go. 134. Curran posted: 10.31.2011 - 10:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, what are the opinions of Nascar pulling the black flag back on Edwards after he clearly passed Burton on the outside coming to the green? I personally thought his ass should have been on pit road but I'll admit I'm a little biased because I think Edwards is an attention whore. 135. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.31.2011 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nico, usually I am AT work when I type these, including right now. And I disagree you have to be at a race to comment on it. If anything, it would lean more towards the opposite. Millions of people every week watch the race on TV. Only thousands are there in person. The people who watched it on TV probably have the most to say because that is how most people see it. Besides, being there increases the fun level 1000 times. Cjs, the big difference is that back then you had to race hard to stay on the lead lap. With no welfare system, evenly matched cars, and (mostly) flawless pit crews, it was real easy to be 4 or 5 laps down by the closing stages. Now it really doesn't matter. 136. Matthew Sullivan posted: 10.31.2011 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers isn't exactly the kind of guy fans can get behind. Ed Hinton has noted several times during chats on ESPN.com that Vickers probably thinks too highly of himself, not in so many words though. Also, does anyone remember an article that one magazine published about Vickers where he was having a big time living the night life in New York? I'm not judging whether it's right or wrong for someone to enjoy the party scene but some comments he made in the article proved to me that he's lacking character. 137. Scott B posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lots of footage for the NASCAR 2011 blooper reel generated this week. Jamie Mac lost his battery. Juan Pablo lost his hood. Kyle lost his wheel. Vickers lost his mind and lost any hope of ever getting a decent Cup ride again. I've said it before but I'll say it again, add me to the list of fans who hate the NASCAR charity system. 20 cars on the lead lap at the end of a 500 lap race at a track like Martinsville is not natural. If you take away the start and parks, that's more than half the field. This may make for a statistical fluke that NASCAR can point to and say "look how competitive the field is," but BK's late spin causing him to finish behind Edwards doesn't sit right with me. 138. cjs3872 posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First of all, DSFF, the cars were NOT evenly matched back then. For instance, in the 1980 Daytona 500, fifth place was three laps behind and seventh was five laps behind, and the driver that finished seventh was black flagged twice near the finish for leaking oil. You need the "welfare" system because if you have a misfortune, such as a cut tire, and get a lap or two down, you'd never make it up today, and automatically be relegated to a finsih in the second half of the field, especially in a restrictor plate race, but that's generally true for all races, because there are so many competitve cars today. This all goes back to the fact that cars just don't drop out of races anymore, unless they're start-and-parks. I go back to the quote from Darrell Waltrip from 1986, and part of what he was referring to was that cars frequently dropped out of races, and also that there just wasn't very many competitve cars, and some of those that had competitve cars either didn't have good reliability, or didn't have good pit crews, so the top drivers knew who they would likely be racing for the win before the race even started, and they could count them on their hands, often times, just one hand. For instance, when he was in his prime, Dale Earnhardt really only had to race five to seven other drivers for the win, even htough there were more competitve cars than that, simply because the other competitve cars had other glaring weaknesses. And back then, losing a lap wasn't all that penal, aecause he could either get it back, which you could do on the track back then, or stay on the lap he was on the rest of the day, and still get a very good finish. Nowadays, that's simply impossible. You get a lap down in a race and are unable to get it back, you're often lucky to finish in the top 20, even if there aren't many free passes or wave-arounds, simply because there are so many morre competitve cars and teams. In fact, the last great rally from multiple laps down to win happened at Martinsville in 2005, if I recall correctly, when Jeff Gordon came from three laps behind to win in the spring that year, having to make two of them up on the track. 139. Matthew Sullivan posted: 10.31.2011 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For instance, when he was in his prime, Dale Earnhardt really only had to race five to seven other drivers for the win, even htough there were more competitve cars than that, simply because the other competitve cars had other glaring weaknesses." Really? Let me pick a random year Earnhardt won a championship in. How about 1986? Earnhardt's top competition were Waltrip, Richmond, Elliott, Rudd, Wallace, Bobby Allison, Geoff Bodine, Terry Labonte and Neil Bonnett. On occasion guys like Hillin, Kyle Petty, Gant, Richard Petty, Ruttman and Shepherd would be up front along with non-full time guys like Baker, Yarborough and Benny Parsons. "And back then, losing a lap wasn't all that penal, aecause he could either get it back, which you could do on the track back then, or stay on the lap he was on the rest of the day, and still get a very good finish. Nowadays, that's simply impossible. You get a lap down in a race and are unable to get it back, you're often lucky to finish in the top 20, even if there aren't many free passes or wave-arounds, simply because there are so many morre competitve cars and teams." Sorry but you're completely wrong here. It's never been easier to get a lap back in NASCAR with the free pass and wave around rules. Greg Biffle received two free passes in Sunday's race and he still managed a respectable 15th place finish in a tore up race car. Before these rules, if you got down a lap at somewhere like Talladega or Watkins Glen, you would have virtually no shot at regaining your lap. It was slightly easier at short tracks because lap down cars started on the inside row. 140. cjs3872 posted: 10.31.2011 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Matthew Sullivan, how many of those guys would drop out of race? I'd say about half of them, if not more in sonme cases. Sure you had a lot of competitve drivers and teams. That wasn't my point. My point was, how many of them would a guy like Earnhardt have to worry about at the END of the race? A driver and team of that calibur only had to worry about five to seven other drivers, because others would have pit road problems that would knock them out of contention, or they would simply drop out of the race for whatever reason. And when I was referring to the virtual impossibility of making up laps, I was referring to making them up on the track. The "welfare" system, as DSFF puts it, allows for teams that have lost laps, for whatever reason, to make them up, though having a race with 18 caution periods sure does help in that regard. The kind of races I was referring to, as far as the extreme difficulty of making up laps, are the the races with few caution periods, because of the way the cars are lined up for restarts now, compared to how they used to line of for restarts. Frankly, I like it more the way it is now, because lapped cars can't cause a wreck that might decimate the leaders, or interefere with the battle in the front of the field, as has happened in the past, though I'd prefer the restarts in the last eight to ten percent of the race to be single-file, so as to not give an unfair advantage to drivers further back in the field that start in a preferred lane. In fact, Jeff Gordon may have tried not to pass Tony Stewart late in the race for second place, in the event of a caution, because at Martinsville, you'd rather be third on a restart than second, because of the advantage the inside line usually gives you, although Tony Stewart blew that theory up on the final restart. 141. Scott B posted: 10.31.2011 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the record: Andy Lally (#77 TRG) and Robby Gordon (#77 RGM) withdrew after being listed on initial enty list for this race. Josh Wise was initially listed in the #37, but that entry was driven by veteran Mike Skinner. Cup teams doing a fuel injection test the day after the race in prep for 2012. 142. Biscuits in a Red Bull posted: 10.31.2011 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see Stewart taking the title. 143. NicoRosbergFan posted: 10.31.2011 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: I meant that to mean that being at the race holds more weight because you can see everything that the cameras miss. TV cameras can only catch o-so much. 144. Timmy Quivy posted: 10.31.2011 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, Brian Vickers had a rough first one hundred laps, but I don't see where the hate for him was coming from after that. After being 30th around lap 100, he /cleanly/ made his way into the top-ten, /cleanly/ made his way past Matt Kenseth, and then promptly got dumped. Brian Vickers - 2004 - 2006 @ Hendrick Motorsports 1 win 10 top-fives 23 top-tens Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 2009 - 2011 @ Hendrick Motorsports 0 wins 10 top-fives 24 top-tens. And don't say that "oh wait, that's different". Because it's really not. Same team (4th Hendrick car), same results. 145. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.31.2011 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just in: Bristol has been officially deceased." this just in, another fan who thinks BMS should like martinsville, a county fair demo derby. Atleast i can stomach racing like this 4 times a year (including plate races), 6 times a year is just sicking. Or perhaps this "fan" NEEDS 30 cautions to keep their interest, cuz BMS is "boring" without 30 cautions. -_- post 144, that isn't new, it's been talked about here alot, BV was in a step child car for his time at HMS, him winning was a mircle at that. 146. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.31.2011 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I worded that badly. What I meant was that back then they had NO welfare system (lucky dogs, wave arounds, debris cautions for something other than an entire bumper in the racing groove), as well as NO evenly matched cars (common templates? Ha!), and wildly inconsistent pit crews. Even the good pit crews back then could look like KyBu's current pit crew at any time (1979 Darlington anyone?). In other words it was very easy to lose 4 or 5 laps and all you could do is hope they all wreck in front of you. That was my point. You had to stay on the lead lap AND keep your car together. 147. OldSchoolNascarDude posted: 10.31.2011 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with DSFF 110 percent on this. Back in the day, you would see the field get really strung out. Instead of seeing 20 cars on the lead lap and the rest only one or two laps down, as you see now, you would have guys have guys on a variety of different laps throughout the race. Whether it was a mechanical problem, speed problem, pit crew troubles, etc. everything got strung out and the last half was basically just making the finish and hoping for a high attrition rate to gain some spots. 148. cjsssss posted: 10.31.2011 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 145, I don't know, Brian Vickers won just as many races in the 25/88 car as anyone else has in the last 20 years. The only drivers in the last 20 years to win in that car have been Jerry Nadeau, Joe Nemechek, Vickers, and Dale Earnhardt, Jr., and all four of those drivers won in that car just once. And DSFF, the difference is that if you're not on the lead lap today, odds are that you'll finish in the second half of the field in today's NASCAR, even without the wave-around. But in the 1980s and early '90s, if you finished off the lead lap, you could still get a good finish. The 1980 Daytona 500 I eluded to is just one example of this. Another was the 1985 Daytona 500, where Bill Elliott ran almost evey big name out of the race by half distance. When that particular massacre was over, only Lake Speed finished on the same lap and Neil Bonnett, who's engine blew with five laps left, was STILL scored in tenth place. A big reason for this is the fact that cars don't drop out of races any more, unless they park. That, and the fact that 60-75 percent of the field could contend under the right circumstances, where back in the 1980s, only about a quarter of the field had any shot at winning, with that number by the early '90s being about 40 percent, at most. Add that to the current restart procedures, which make it impossible for cars to make up laps on the track, unless they get incredibly lucky by catching a caution just right during green flag pit stops. That's why you have the wave-around, as well as to make sure that the leaders ALWAYS start the race in front of the field, which I agree with, so that lapped cars can't interfere with the leaders, and possibly cause a big crash. But I think in the last eight to ten percent of a race, the field should he lined up single-file in race order, so that positions can't be determined by which line you're in on the restart. For instance, Jeff Gordon didn't pass Tony Stewart late in the race for second place because he was afraid there would be a late caution, which there was, in which case, being second would put him at a disadvantage because he would have started on the outside, rather than being third, which would have put him on the inside. Now it didn't work out for him, but I firmly believe that he didn't pass Stewart because he felt there would be a caution, and at Martinsville, you would rather be third than second on a restart. 149. Cooper posted: 10.31.2011 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hypothetical scenario. If a race went caution free at let's say Texas, you would probably see 5-6 cars on the lead lap at the checkered flag. There is some speed differential in the cars today, but all of that's negated when consecutive cautions come out. The lead lap used to be something that drivers and teams were proud about. Now it's just another statistic. The reason I have enjoyed this season so much is the frequency of low caution races. I cringe every time a caution comes out because my driver has everything to lose and nothing to gain. If you have no emotional investment into a race then you probably would want to see controversy, carnage, and close finishes. (At least that's the way I viewed races in 07/08/09.) The one thing I LOVED about watching NASCAR races in 01,02,03 was a drivers ability to stay on the lead lap. Because it was basically a safety net of guaranteeing a good finish. If there was only 14 cars on the lead lap, you could take a lot of risks, because at worst you were going to get a 14th place finish (As long as you avoided a mechanical problem or accident.) Now, because there are an abundance amount of cars on the lead lap, it's more risky to take chances as a good finish isn't guaranteed no more. Just my two cents. 150. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.31.2011 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Timmy, they both did/are struggle/struggling at HMS but for different reasons. June because he isn't committed and Vickers because he just isn't any good. Everyone will have a bad race every so often where they hit everything and leave the fans at the race scared they have probably hit their own personal car outside the track, Gordon and Brad at Sears Point last year, Earnhardt at Bristol in '95, etc. But they also have great races on their resumes too. Brian? Not really. 151. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.31.2011 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, that safety net comment is an excellent way of putting it. What I am getting at is that getting lapped used to be a big deal. It was an uphill battle from there big time. 152. Talon64 posted: 10.31.2011 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Vickers just drove himself out of a competitive Cup ride for next year. In fact now I'm afraid the left-rear quarter panel off the #83 RBR car I won on Twitter is going to jump to life and try to turn me into the wall. I wasn't able to watch the race so I had to suffer through SPEED's insufferable post-race coverage. And I couldn't even enjoy that Kenny Wallace wasn't on Victory Lane because of the circumstances (RIP Russ Wallace, sad days in racing lately). But when I saw that Tony won, I figured it had to be fuel mileage again or something other than him actually being good enough to beat the field and win because of how much he's sucked at Martinsville of late. But Darian a Paul Wolfe to get Tony track position at the end, and then he punked Jimmie Johnson on the restart to get a HUGE win. 8 weeks ago I would've been happy if Tony had just won a race before the year's out, but now he's got 3 in the bag and a great shot at the title. A title he doesn't really deserve considering he'd be 7th in points without the Chase, but whatever. But Carl's lost who I thought was his biggest threat for the title in Matt Kenseth, whose bad luck has him on life support at best. Shame too, because Matt was having one of his best runs ever at Martinsville. Realistically, it's down to 4 guys: Carl, Tony, Harvick and BraKes. 2 of the last 3 races are on intermediate tracks, where Carl should have an advantage. He finished 3rd at Texas earlier this year and won Homestead last year, so anything less than top 3 finishes at both of those races would be a disappointment. The new Phoenix is going to be a huge wild card for everyone, but while Carl was great on the old configuration his recent flat-track runs have left something to be desired, despite salvaging top 10's. Interestingly enough I could say the exact same things about Tony; ran great at Phoenix earlier this year but who knows who'll run well on the new configuration, and Tony's been solid on the intermediates of late. But Tony's the only one of the two who's shown any propensity to winning lately so I'm liking Tony's odds. Harvick and Keselowski are going to need Tony and Carl to have some bad luck to get back in it, but with 3 races to go it's not out of the question and they only need the both of them to have a Matt Kenseth/Martinsville-like race. Kenseth will need a miracle, and everyone else is out of it. So at least it's goodbye to Jimmie Johnson's championship streak. In fact there's no guarantee he'll avoid finishing outside of the top 5 in points for the first time in his career. 153. Talon64 posted: 10.31.2011 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "-Jeff Burton scored his 240th career top ten, moving past Ned Jarrett and into sole possesion of 20th all-time. -Dave Blaney moved into the top 50 all-time with his 394th career start, passing John Andrett for 50th all-time. -Kurt Busch passed Frank Warren for 48th all-time with 397 career starts. He'll become the 48th driver to start 400 races in the Cup series with thre season finale at homestead. -Mark Martin moved ahead of Bill Elliott for sixth on the all-time starts list with 827. -And also, Kyle Busch moved ahead of three series champions, including his brother Kurt, and into 21st all-time with 7,110 laps led. He was 24th entering this race, but moved past Dale Jarrett, Terry Labonte, and his brother Kurt into 21st place. however, he's got a ways to go to get into the top 20, as next up is Ricky Rudd, who led 7,874 laps in his career." Thanks, I normally forget about starts. Tony Stewart picks up his 42nd career Sprint Cup Series victory; all 3 of his 2011 wins have come in the first 7 Chase races. His 9 career Chase wins ranks 2nd only to Jimmie Johnson (6 of them have come when he's actually been in the Chase). It's an unlikey 3rd career Martinsville win, considering he had finishes of 26th, 24th and 34th in his last 3 starts there. It's his first win there since 2006, a span of 11 races, and his 14 laps led are the most he's led in a Martinsville race since he led 288 on the way to his 2006 victory. It's Stewart Haas Racing's 11th career win, 9 of them coming with Stewart. Jimmie Johnson finishes 2nd for a series-leading 5th time in 2011, his most since he had 5 in 2008 (6 in 2006 is his career-high). It's his 35th career runner-up finish, tying him with Harry Gant for 17th all time. It's Jimmie's 14th top 5 (his most at any track) in 20 career Martinsville starts, which also includes 9 top 2's (3 runner-up finishes). Jeff Gordon's 12th top 5 of 2011 surpasses his total from 2010. But it's his first top 5 in 5 races, and in the previous 4 he had an average finish of 23.5. Jeff brought his season's lap-led total to 915; 85 more and he'll reach 1000 for the 10th time in 19 seasons (first since 2007). He surpassed 3,000 career laps led at Martinsville (4th all time, Cale Yarborough with 3,784 is the all time leader) with his 12th career race of 100+ laps led there. It's his 25th top 5, his most at any track, in 38 career Martinsville starts (6.9 avg fin). Kevin Harvick gets his first top 5 in the last 6 races; he needs just 1 more to reach 10 for just the 4th time in 11 seasons in Cup. After having no top 5 finishes in his first 18 Martinsville starts (18.1 avg fin), Harvick has top 5's in his last 3. Denny Hamlin picks up his first top 5 in 14 races, after leading just 6 laps total in the previous 11 races he leads 58. It's his 9th top 5 in 13 Martinsville starts (6.5 avg fin). After having just 1 top 10 in the first 31 races of the season, Jeff Burton has back-to-back top 10's (first time since he had 5 in a row in July/August of 2010). It's just his 2nd top 10 in his last 7 Martinsville starts but his 16th in 35 career starts there (14.6 avg fin). Dale Earnhardt Jr. picks up just his 3rd top 10 in the last 19 races (8 in the first 14 races of 2011). But it's his 3rd straight top 10 at Martinsville and 13th overall (tied with Daytona for his most at any track) in 24 career starts there (13.0 avg fin). Martin Truex Jr. reaches 10 top 10's for the 3rd time in 6 full seasons in Cup. But it's just his 3rd top 10 in 12 career Martinsville starts (22.8 avg fin). Carl Edwards picked up his series-leading 23rd top 10 of 2011 and 9th in the last 10 races (the other finish being 11th). It's just his 5th top 10 in 15 career Martinsville starts, but 3 of them have come in the last 4 races. Ryan Newman's 16 top 10's this season are his most since he had 16 in 2005, but it's just his 2nd top 10 (both 10th place finishes) in the last 6 races. It's his 10th top 10 in 20 career Martinsville starts (14.4 avg fin). Ken Schrader gets his best finish in 7 starts with FAS Lane Racing this season, and best finish since finishing 18th in this race last year. 154. Scott B posted: 10.31.2011 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of TV coverage, I could not watch the race live so I caught the overnight replay. I was frustrated because for the first half of the race or so the ticker had only the standings, no timing differential from the leader or laps down status. Was this also true on the live broadcast? 155. Scott B posted: 10.31.2011 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Notes from the Martinsville fuel injection test session: Aric Almirola driving for Hendrick. Sam Hornish sharing duties with Kurt Busch in the Penske car. Mike Skinner driving for MWR. Notes on the Texas entry list: #50 withdrawn, T.J. Bell listed in the #77 (277) for TRG. Lally back in the #71. Reed Sorenson in the #7 again, with Robby Gordon listed the #77 (177) for RGM. #21 (Bayne), #30 (Stremme), #95 (Starr) entered. G. Bodine in the #36 (a top 35 car), with Dave Blaney shifting to the #35. Mike Bliss in the #32. #37 listed as TBA (Josh Wise or Mike Skinner?) We may see one or two more withdrawls, but it's the biggest purse of the 3 remaining races so there is some incentive for teams to show up. 156. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.31.2011 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you have no emotional investment into a race then you probably would want to see controversy, carnage, and close finishes. (At least that's the way I viewed races in 07/08/09.)" And everytime a race doesn't have controversy, carnage or a close finishes then races are "boring." i'll stop here. "Realistically, it's down to 4 guys: Carl, Tony, Harvick and BraKes." Pretty much have to agree here its a 4 dude race but really its 6 guys (2 on life support) All Carl and Tony have to do is not screw up and they be fine (and with Tony playing head games like in 2005, anything can happen). Harvick and Brad are going to have to throw all their cards in and go for broke because those 2 aren't going to catch Carl and Tony, they are going to have to take risks. Matt and Jimmie on the other hand are basically 2 miracles away from being back in it and lately, those miracles have been nightmares for those 2. Both of those 2 needed to do a 2006 Tony Stewert, catch fire and win out the 3 remaining races. 157. 00andJoe posted: 10.31.2011 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regarding the Lucky Dog: The reasoning behind it is sound, the execution is not. It should be changed. Currently, it works like this: "first car one lap down, regardless of where it is with regard to the leader gets a lap back; if no cars one lap down, first car 2 laps down, etc." The way it -should- be, and the way that would make it competitively equal to the way things were before racing back to the caution was abolished, is "all cars one or more laps down, running on the track between the first and second place cars, get one lap back each." This way, it's (a) equal to the way it was historically, when the leader would slow coming to the caution to give lapped cars a chance to get a lap back, (b) gives cars multiple laps down a -better- chance, and (c) avoids having the "race for the Lucky Dog" be a better race than that for the lead. "Also, what are the opinions of Nascar pulling the black flag back on Edwards after he clearly passed Burton on the outside coming to the green?" Watching the replay and listening to the radio, NASCAR made the right call. They told Edward to line up, he wasn't able to do that until very late, its not his fault he got stuck in a traffic jam. (It was probably Brian Vickers' fault...) 158. 00andJoe posted: 10.31.2011 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Texas entry list is out. 48 cars: -Sorenson in the #7 -Bayne in the #21 -Bliss back in the #32 -Blaney in the #35 -Geoff Bodine in the #36 -#37 is TBA -Kvapil in the #38, Yeley in the #55 -Lally in the #71 -Robby Gordon in the #77 (177) -T.J. Bell in the #77 (277) (note: the #50 already withdrew) -Starr in the #95 159. Cooper posted: 10.31.2011 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "156. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.31.11 - 5:57 pm" Unfortunately that is the case for many of the NASCAR "fans". When I had no favorite driver in the Cup races from 07-09 I could careless about the actual racing. It's hard to watch 500 laps with no one to cheer for, or anyone to watch. The rules that NASCAR have in place right now is to cater to the casual fan. These "fans" we're the ones who wanted the chase and a lot of other things that hardcore fans didn't want. These "fans" are the ones that watch football and only check in on the race at the start, when there is a crash, and then the finish. And everything about yesterday's race appealed to those "fans". I bet, the casual fan loved yesterday's race. I'm assuming your a Tony Stewart fan... so I'll ask you a question. Will you have the same intrigue and interest in NASCAR when Tony hangs up the gloves? "157. 00andJoe posted: 10.31.11 - 6:00 pm" I've thought of the exact same thing. It's like your reading my mind. Pretty scary really. I'd love it if NASCAR made that there new rule on "lucky dogs". Send this to NASCAR ASAP. Terrific idea. 160. cjs3872 posted: 10.31.2011 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First, it was me that posted 148. The numbers keys on my keyboard don't work. 00andJoe, it doesn't have the first guy one lap down that gets the free pass. The free pass goes to highest scroed car not on the lead lap that's on the track and not involved in the caution period. But that guy could 100 laps down, if he's the highest scored car not on the lead lap, he gets the free pass. Talon64, it's not a four-man race for the championship in my view, it's a two-man race, Edwards and Stewart. If nothing happens to those two, they're the only ones that can win the title this year. With third being 21 points back with this year's one point-per position scoring system, even 21 points is too far back if nothing happens to those in front of him. And the free pass was instituted when racing to the caution was elimiated. It was done to give those that had trouble a chance to make a lap, because there were some incidents in which, if you had even a flat tire and had to pit, you would lose a lap and never be able to make it up. But what the free pass rule also did was allow drivers to pull into the pits with with overheating problems caused by debris on the grill, because they knew that they could regain that lap they would lose in the pits. That, in turn, has led to a decrease in the number of blown engines caused by overheating. And Cooper, if the race at Texas went caution-free, which I will assure you NASCAR would never let happen, there would be a good chance that the winner would lap the entire field, and possibly lap cars in the top ten twice. After all, in the race there earlier this year, Trevor Bayne finished just outside the top 15, and was just about to down a second lap when the race ended, and there were only seven or eight cars on the lead lap when that race ended. The reason the winner would likely lap the field is the increase in the number of pit stops, as well as fewer cars on the track, as well as the absurd advantage the leader has. If he gets out in clean air, he could gap the field by two or three seconds in just ten laps, so it's entirely possible if the race would go caution-free, that the winner would lap the entire field. Remember that when Dale Jarrett won the June race in Michigan in 1999, that race went caution-free, and there were only four other cars on the same lap on a 2-mile race track, and the leader didn't have near the advantage he does now, so I believe that a race run caution free would quite possibly result in the winner being in a lap of his own. 161. StevenWallaceCan'tDrive posted: 10.31.2011 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And Cooper, if the race at Texas went caution-free, which I will assure you NASCAR would never let happen, there would be a good chance that the winner would lap the entire field, and possibly lap cars in the top ten twice. After all, in the race there earlier this year, Trevor Bayne finished just outside the top 15, and was just about to down a second lap when the race ended, and there were only seven or eight cars on the lead lap when that race ended. The reason the winner would likely lap the field is the increase in the number of pit stops, as well as fewer cars on the track, as well as the absurd advantage the leader has. If he gets out in clean air, he could gap the field by two or three seconds in just ten laps, so it's entirely possible if the race would go caution-free, that the winner would lap the entire field." I was at the race in Kentucky this year, and I honestly believe that Kyle Busch could have lapped that entire field with no cautions. It was ridiculous. He was maybe one fewer caution away from lapping all but the top 5 at one point in that race. I've rarely seen a driver dominate in the way he did that night, considering it wasn't a short track. Actually if I remember correctly, Busch has lapped 3/4 of the field at Richmond or Bristol during parts of races before too, before NASCAR's charity rules gave laps back. He's just a driver that was built for a different era, when dominating runs guaranteed at least top 10's, and a few bad races a year wouldn't kill you in points because there was no Chase. Kyle Busch would have excelled in NASCAR 30 years ago even more than he does now, at least as far as championship runs go. He's a driver that needs to build a huge lead and win races the first part of the year, then coast in the last 10. He might win 50 races and never win a Chase title, just because of the rules in place these days. 162. Cooper posted: 10.31.2011 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "161. StevenWallaceCan'tDrive posted: 10.31.11 - 7:37 pm" Yep. The race at Richmond you mentioned was simply an amazing performance by Kyle Busch. He lapped all the way to 9th place in the first 150 laps! He even lapped Jimmie Johnson. Of course, like you said, it was taken away when everyone took the wave around which put about 26 cars back on the lead lap. It was the most frustrating thing I have ever seen in 10 years. I've never seen one issue be agreed upon by so many people. 163. Mr X posted: 10.31.2011 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regarding comment #115, I'm still young enough to be between jobs periodically, and until a little over a week ago I was, however I'm now working fulltime, 40 hours a week at an auto wrecker(It wouldn't surprise me to see a #83 Toyota in the scrap pile), and I'm off weekends, and since I haven't left any excessively long rants until this one. Not to mention the longer posts tend to do more to move this online converstation forward, I feel like myself, DSFF, cjs, and several others do quite a bit to move the conversation forward then others. I enjoy bouncing ideas and theories off other people with whom I share a common passion with, in auto racing. There aren't that many people that passionate about auto racing in Winnipeg, especially since the Atlanta Thrashers just became the Winnipeg Jets. The NHL is back in Winnipeg for the first time since 1996! On the subject of lead lap cars at the end of the race, there are too many. Restrictor plate races are the only races where any car on the lead lap in the late laps can actually win. Even if the 15th place driver is on the lead lap with 25 laps to go, he has little more chance of winning the race then I do. Not to mention the attrition factor adds to the marathon aspect. Back when it was the Winston Cup Series(ahh) every race held at a track under a mile was 500 laps, and every track over a mile held a 500 mile race, and there were only a few exceptions to this rule. North Wilkesboro(400 laps) or Michigan(400miles) are really the only immediate exceptions that come to mind. Even Riverside held a 500 mile race until 1976. Every race was marathon, 4, 5, and even 6 hour races were the norm. Winning the race meant maintaining a pace that was somewhat of an unkwown before the race started. Drivers were given a choice of whether to try to run away from the field, however potentially pushing the car too hard, or to just keep the leaders within striking distance. The difference between the fastest car and the slowest car was much greater, if someone passed you, there was no guarentee that you would ever see them again for the rest of the race until they lapped you, but they could easily end up in the garage. Losing a lap during the race has never meant less with NASCAR's we'll throw a caution for anything attitude, and rules that keep half the field on the lead lap, however finishing on the lead lap has never meant more. In 1973 Winston Cup Champ Benny Parsons ended the 1973 season with only one lead lap finish, his win at Bristol. IMO NASCAR should create a set of rules where most races end up with about 10-15 cars on the lead lap at the end, it would put the front runners, specifically the leader in a better position late in the race. The leader should be better able to dictate what goes on in a race's late stages. Having 20-25 cars on the lead lap doesn't make the race better, and keeping them there makes it worse. This is my idea as to how lap down cars should be dealt with. This is a wierd idea I've had, but what if at every track we have another line exactly opposite the start/finish line. I'll give you an example, we're at Michigan, and there's a crash off turn 4, and the leader is already passed the start/finish line, obviously we cant run all the way back to the line anymore. My idea was we put a line halfway down the backstretch, exactly opposite the start/finish line. If there's a crash in turns 3 & 4 and the leader has passed the line, we race back to the line halfway down the backstretch and the field is frozen there, if the crash is in turns 1 & 2 and the leader is past the line on the backstretch then we race back to the start/finish line. The drivers could race back to a line, but would virtually never have to run through the crashed cars. The drivers would race to the next line, roughly half a lap away. Instead of a mere "gentlemens agreement" we could actually have a set in stone rule that says in the first 75% of a race the leader decides who and who doesn't get a lap back, and if the leader doesn't race back nobody except lapped cars do. It would be completely the leaders choice. However in the last 25% of a race, we would race back no matter what. I posted that on the Sylvania 300 page with not as much response as I had hoped for, it to me is a quite safe and realistic way to bring back the race to the line. Even though racing back to the line has caused other crashes during the actual run back(Darrell Waltrip, 1983 Daytona 500), but the year is no longer 1983, and even though there aren't as many area's as there should be where NASCAR has really done their homework, the safety of the current car is one of them. This isn't the best time to say this given whats happened to Dan Wheldon and Marco Simoncelli in recent weeks, and I hope I don't jinx it, but these drivers in these cars, seem to be so well protected from all angles and all types of crashes that I think that the sport is definitely ready to loosen the reigns a little bit and really let the drivers race. If this idea doesn't fly then 00andJoe's is also great, and Cjs's idea of going back to single file late in a race so that odd or even positions aren't at an advantage or disadvantage at tracks like Martinsville. Every position would get you one spot closer to the front, as opposed to a car width towards or away from the racing line, either looking for an opening or trying to box someone out. The leader is the one who does all the lapping, the leader deserves the oppertunity to decide who can or can't get their lap back. Drivers put in effort to lap other drivers, NASCAR shouldn't take that away, consequently making the beginning of the race completely pointless. NASCAR shouldn't be cutting welfare checks to anyone, this is the top division of the worlds most competitive auto racing series, we need to seperate the men from the boys. 164. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.31.2011 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm assuming your a Tony Stewart fan... so I'll ask you a question. Will you have the same intrigue and interest in NASCAR when Tony hangs up the gloves?" maybe, all depends on who is waiting to take Smokes seat. I'll never like Jimmie Johnson (respect him but not like him), Kyle Busch wears me out with his "mature" side, I still like JaimeMc, RG, The Biff, and Brad K. i'm warming up too. I guess my "fandom" will be put to the test when NASCAR runs its new car (which i don't want BTW, the COT works just fine) in 2 years, and quits listening to the people who endlessly b###h about stuff endlessly (not a typo, actual fact). I was still a fan after #3 past on, so chances are i may still be a fan when Tony hangs it up. speaking of butt-kickings in races, i was at the race in 2005 at Daytona when Smoke lead about every single lap, that wasn't boring, it honor to watch a such massive display of butt-kickingness. Kept PG rated for the kids who maybe reading this ;-). Oh and races Daytona and Talladega could/should/would go caution free if the drivers would stop losing their minds. 165. Matthew Sullivan posted: 10.31.2011 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my view, NASCAR needs to eliminate the free pass (it shouldn't have been made in the first place) since they have the wave around rule. At the very least it has a bit of a detriment since the ones that would take it are guys on older tires and less fuel than the leaders. 166. irony posted: 10.31.2011 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another week of a certain annoying poster whining about race fans being too blue collar for his liking. I've had no favorite Cup driver since Earnhardt's death, (although I enjoyed watching my favorite Truck driver race Cup that season) and have watched every single race anyway. I'm really looking forward to Danica changing that for me. Or Stephen Leicht who I've followed for 11 years now. Anyway, thought I'd chime in on "casual fans". What is it about Rick Hendrick, planes, and Martinsville? 167. Spen posted: 10.31.2011 - 11:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle Busch would have excelled in NASCAR 30 years ago even more than he does now" 12-20 years ago, in Gordon's era, he'd have been amazing. But 30+? He'd have been the second coming of Buddy Baker. Way too hard on equiptment. "North Wilkesboro(400 laps) or Michigan(400miles) are really the only immediate exceptions that come to mind" Nashville and Richmond Fairgrounds too. Was Texas World four or five hundred? I can't remember anymore. 168. 00andJoe posted: 11.01.2011 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The free pass goes to highest scroed car not on the lead lap that's on the track and not involved in the caution period." I thought that too, until I started seeing multiple cases where the lapped car (multiple laps down) directly behind the leader did NOT get the Lucky Dog, while the car behind him (one lap down) DID. 169. cjs3872 posted: 11.01.2011 - 1:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, even Buddy Baker won a race at Martinsville, doing so in Harry Ranier's car in 1979, but I get where you're going there. And need I remind those that want to scrap the free pass rule and allow some racing to the caution about the incident that finally ended racing back to the caution. It occurred at Loudon in the fall race there in 2003, when several drivers tried to get a lap back, racing the leader, who I believe was Ryan Newman at the time, who didn't let anyone get their lap back, and at least two cars nearly hit Dale Jarrett's stalled car on the front straightaway. Mr X, you referred to the 1983 Daytona 500 incident involving Darrell Waltrip when he was racing to the caution trying to get a lap back. What you forgot to mention there was that there was a situation when Mark Martin crashed later in that same race when Joe Ruttman, who was leading at the time, was trying to keep Neil Bonnett from getting a lap back, and they were racing through the debris from Martin's car, as well as other lapped traffic, racing to the caution, barely avioding a more serious incident than the one Waltrip had under the same set of circumstances. Now if you want to get rid of the free pass, because now you have the wave around in the event the leaders pit and lapped cars don't, that's fine, but there must be some way for cars to get laps back. Actually, there are far more cars that get laps back via the wave around than there were that ever got laps back via the free pass. After all, the free pass rule only allows one car to get a lap back, while the wave around can let a virtually unlimited number of cars get a lap back under the same caution period, sometimes 20 or more, depending on the circumstances involved. Actually, there are races in which between 75-100 total laps could be made up because of the wave around, again depending on circumstances. 170. Brother Bear posted: 11.01.2011 - 3:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >>"The free pass goes to highest scored car not on the lead lap that's on the track and not involved in the caution period." I thought that too, until I started seeing multiple cases where the lapped car (multiple laps down) directly behind the leader did NOT get the Lucky Dog, while the car behind him (one lap down) DID. << Highest scored is the car with the most laps done, not best track position relative to the leader. ALSO: Difficult to say from ESPN footage, but given what we saw Nascar was correct in not penalizing Carl. 171. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.01.2011 - 8:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I heard on the news "Rick Hendrick" and "plane crash" and I swear my heart stopped until I heard "minor injuries". Unbelievable. My prayers to him and Linda (who was also aboard) not only for a recovery, but for the fact this must unearth some awful memories, especially this time of year, one week after Oct 24 and right after the Fall Martinsville race which must be a horrible time anyways. 172. Ivan Balakhonov posted: 11.01.2011 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A lot of words were spoken here about the heroics of Vickers and at the same time almost nobody mentioned how spectacular was Junebug. He caused not one, not two and not even three crashes, and his most notable victim was Keselowski late in the race. 173. Scott B posted: 11.01.2011 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though I like Junior I'd have to agree with you, Ivan. He drove an ugly race... and somehow, managed to come away from it with one of his better finishes of the season. I guess being the fan favorite has its advantages, nobody wants to retaliate and be hated for sending you on spin cycle. 174. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.01.2011 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually when Brad got spun it was #20, who hit #88, who hit #11, who hit #2. Atleast that is what i saw. This may seem out of character for me but i liked how Jr. drove on sunday. He wasn't being Mr.NiceGuy, he was (dare i say it) his dad *atleast to a point*. He basically showed a "no mercy" style attitude that hasn't being with him since 2004. If he keeps that attitude up, then maybe he'll win a race. my fix for the lucky dog (and its simple too), you get 2 for a race, once you use those up, take the wave around to get a lap back or stay out when others pit to get a lap back. Simple. 175. Scott B posted: 11.01.2011 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN and CBS reporting Mark Martin will announce a deal with MWR to drive a partial schedule in the 00 next year. Mikey would drive the car himself in a few plate races, Reuti would be out. Some sources are speculating that with Mark in a Toyota in Cup, he'd also be running a few races for Kyle Busch Motorsports in Trucks or NWR. I was expecting him to be the other piece of the Danica puzzle, but it looks like that's a no go. And now Reutimann has to land somewhere. A slow silly season just got more interesting. 176. Scott B posted: 11.01.2011 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Soory, that should be Trucks or NNW. 177. cjs3872 posted: 11.01.2011 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 174, when you stay out when the leaders pit, that's when you get the wave around. And also, referring to silly season, Montoya hasn't resigned with Ganassi, either, though he's fully expected to, though, for some reason he doesn't, the 42 car is in play. It now looks like, barring a miracle, that the third Stewart-Haas Racing car with Danica Patrick, is just going to be a part-time car now. It also looks like, if the no. 6 team at Roush doesn't completely shut down next year, that it could be a combination of drivers for the races it runs, with Ragan, if he stays, along with Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. and Trevor Bayne, though it was reported tonight on Race Hub that both may drive the Wood Brothers' car next year. The way I see that possibly going down is that Bayne would drive the 21 car, as he has this year, and in races that both the 6 and 21 run that Bayne would move to the 6 car if Ragan is not with Roush, becuse of his greater Cup experience, while Stenhouse runs the 21 car to get Cup experience with the best organization I know of to get Cup experience. After all, how can you not learn from the most experienced organization in the sport, a team that has won with drivers such as Lund, Yarborough, Foyt, Gurney, Pearson, Donnie Allison, Bonnett, Kyle Petty, and Dale Jarrett, among many others, and was even an Indy winning pit crew for Jim Clark in 1965. 178. Scott B posted: 11.01.2011 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm thinking Bayne in the #21 just for the continuity of working with the crew he already knows and Stenhouse in the #6, both part time. I don't know how Ragan will fit in, unless they move him to NNW. However, both Trevor and Ricky also need the seat time in NNW if they are running only a Cup schedule similar to Bayne's 2011 season, or even fewer races. Interesting idea about juggling the two up and comers between rides, but I'm not convinced it will go down that way. I do think we'll see both the #21 and the #6 in the restrictor plate races, though, regardless of how they work the drivers out. 179. 12345Dude posted: 11.01.2011 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are rumours going around that (DSFF try not to throw your computer at the wall) David Reutimann is going to run part time next year, with Mark Martin running part of the year in the #00. It's just a rumour, but it looks like they are going to make the announcement Friday. My question is, why do all these free agent drivers want to go to MWR? Its baffling. 180. cjs3872 posted: 11.01.2011 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott B, I'm only saying what I heard on Race Hub. It's also entirely possible that Bayne may get more than just the races in the Wood Brothers' car. However, running both the 6 and 21 cars in the plate races would prove problematical, because the 21 car would still not have a drafting partner, since it's a single-car team. That's why Bayne had trouble finding drafting partners, even after winning the Daytona 500. It's what led to his crash in the Firecracker 400, because he dropped like an anvil early in that race, and it's why he had to team up with, of all people, Robby Gordon, at Talladega, because nobody else in the Ford camp would draft with him, since his was the odd-numbered Ford. However, I do expect, if Ragan isn't in the car next year, Bayne to be in the 6 car for the events that winning the Daytona 500 made him eligible for, namely the Budweiser Shootout and the All-Star Race. I still think that Roush may want to fast-track Bayne into the Cup series sooner, which is why his name came up as a possibility for running the 6 car in races that he isn't running the Wood Brothers' car, if the 6 car is a part-time team next year, while potentially running Stenhouse in the races that the Wood Brothers run. That's what Roush should do if he's going to run both drivers some in Cup next year. And 12345Dude, you're apparently right that Mark Martin is going to run the 00 car part-time, but the 00 car is also apparently going to be a part-time car next year, thus leaving Reutimann, who Michael Waltrip once called "The Franchise" totally out of a ride next year. This, much like Waltrip releasing Bayne at about this time last year, as well as Ryan Truex earlier this year, is totally sponsor driven. Remember that Clint Bowyer's sponsor for next year, 5-Hour Energy Drink, is only sponsoring the 15 car for about half the races next year, so Waltrip still needs to fins sponsorship for the other half of the races for the 15 car, and one option is moving Aaron's to the 15 for many of, if not all those races. 181. cjs3872 posted: 11.01.2011 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Scott B, as for Ragan, there are those rumors about him moving to the 71 TRG Motorsports car next year if the 6 car doesn't get sponsorship, which, I believe would keep him in the Ford family. However, I don't like the idea of a driver like Ragan driving a blue number 71, as it would, in my view, deface the legacy of one Dave Marcis, who was one of the most underrated drivers in the history of the sport. Marcis, after all, built what was the first stone of what would become the legendary career of Dale Earnhardt, as he proved that Rod Osterlund's car was competitve, even though he never won in it. Earnhardt, of course, took the baton from Marcis and won Rookie of the Year in 1979 and the championship in 1980. In fact, Marcis was such a good driver that IROC used him as a test driver for many years, along with two of his good friends, Jim Sauter, who he urged Jim Stacy to put in a car for the 1982 Daytona 500, which he had a chance to win, as well as Dick Trickle, who had chances to win numerous Cup races, though he never finished better than third and was the 1989 Cup Rookie of the Year. 182. Spen posted: 11.01.2011 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think having Gilliland and Lally in the car has already weakened its legacy. Ragan can't lower it much more. Yes, Lally is an excellent sports car driver, but he's worthless in stock cars. Real shame about Reuti. I thought he'd be in that car for at least another four or five years. And chances are, Homestead will be the last time he gets a chance to run a full race. He'll be a start-and-parker from now on. 183. Anonymous posted: 11.02.2011 - 12:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think David Reutimann is better off going back to the truck series. I don't think a lot of cup teams want him because of his age and season he had. David is going to be 42 years old next year. I think David is more talented than his record in cup says because of MWR. I think the drivers at MWR are better than the equipment. What happened here is Clint Bowyer doesn't have a full time sponsor. Micheal got a rid of David because Michael Waltrip knew Clint Bowyer is younger than David Reutimann and a sponsor would agree with that. 184. Spen posted: 11.02.2011 - 2:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What decent truck rides are open? When even Hornaday doesn't have a ride for next year, it makes for a very bleak picture. 185. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.02.2011 - 2:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It appears that David Reutimann's loyalty to MWR has bit him in the ass, just like it did to Ward Burton when he was with BDR (there's quite a parallel between those two drivers and teams, except for the fact that BDR was a single car team for many years). David should have left that team long ago when he was still getting offers to drive other cars. At this point, it will be tough for him to find a new ride if he indeed ends up without one. And I will NEVER understand why Clint Bowyer actually left a steady team like RCR to join the sinking ship referred to as MWR. The top reason I keep hearing is that MWR will be paying Clint more money, but still, won't you make more money in the long run by running up front and finishing well for a good team than you will running 20th for a fringe team? 186. cjs3872 posted: 11.02.2011 - 3:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Spen, I don't really think Lally is/was that good a sports car driver, and you're right, Lally and those that have preceeded him in the 71 TRG car have somewhat ruined the reputation that Marcis gave the blue no. 71 over the years, so Ragan can't lower it that much more. 187. Brother Bear posted: 11.02.2011 - 4:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I were not that surprised at Bowyer failing to reach an agreement with RCR. Going to MWR was a step backwards, but face it, if RCR has to make space for 1 or 2 Dillons, Menard and Harvick is not going to be cut. In short, Bowyer probably wanted too much money (in context) and probably too long a contract extension. Even with bringing in a sponsor for 20 races a year, any contract that took Bowyer beyond 2013 could delay Austin Dillon's progress to Cup level. 188. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.02.2011 - 8:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too late 12345dude, I have thrown my computer THROUGH the wall :) I haven't read much about it yet, but if what you are saying about Ruet being out is true, then not only is Mikey the worst driver in NASCAR history (I know people have been worse at times, but I'm confident that if given TWENTY FIVE FREAKING YEARS in Cup, they would eventually do way more than Mikey), but he is also the worst owner to be given manufacturer support and full time sponsors. Has he seen Mark race this year? He has clearly lost it. Reut has been the cornerstone there. The only driver to win for that embarrassment of an organization. Ugh. 189. Scott B posted: 11.02.2011 - 9:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just thinking, this could get real interesting when we get a qualifying rainout next season and the tail end of the field is set by race attempts. With part-time schedules the growing trend, we could see these teams being bumped from the field by teams that show up every weekend but start & park. 190. Cooper posted: 11.02.2011 - 10:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Former NASCAR Winston Cup winner Jeremy Mayfield was arrested today for drug charges. It is rumored that police found approximately a gram of meth. So sad and disappointing. Jeremy was a talented race car driver. I thought he was going to be one of the drivers that helped carry the sport from the 20th to the 21st century. I believed him when he said he was innocent, but obviously NASCAR was right. 191. cjs3872 posted: 11.02.2011 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, Mark only wanted to drive a partial schedule next year, and the plain truth is that Michael Waltrip didn't have sp[onsorship to run a third car full-time. In fact, the 5-Hour Energy sponsorship foir Bowyer was only for about half the season, so what He's probably going to do is have Aaron's sponsor Bowyer for the races that 5-Hour energy Drink is not sponsoring him. That leaves Reutimann's 00 car without sponsorship. Trust me, Waltrip watned to keep Reutimann, but he just simply couldn't afford to due to lack of sponsorship. Waltrip could have his sponsors rotate sponsorship for the races that Mark would run next year. This same thing happened last year and earlier this year. If you remember, Waltrip wanted to keep Trevor Bayne in the fold for the Nationwide Series, but was forced to release him due to lack of sponsorship late last year, and the same is true regarding Ryan Truex earlier this year. The only thing I have somewhat of a problem with in regards to Waltrip and the way he's running his organization, as far as drivers go, is that he's putting too much into Travis Pastrana, which I guarantee you right now, is going to be a complete and utter disaster. 192. Curran posted: 11.02.2011 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anybody else notice that the ratings have been doing really well lately? Every race in the Chase (with the exception of Chicago which was run on a Monday) has seen an increase in viewers from last season - And this weeks race at Martinsville was the best yet, seeing about a 25% jump over last year's same race. It even beat the 2009 number when the Martinsville race aired on ABC (It's a big deal for an ESPN number to beat a comparable ABC number). With another wild finish to a championship battle likely, the emergence of young talent coupled with interesting personalities that we have not seen in a while (Brad K., Trevor Bayne, and soon guys like Austin Dillon and Ricky Stenhouse), and of course the Danica factor being just around the corner, Nascar may be on the front end of its biggest upswing in many, many years. I'm not trying to say that everything's perfect (because we all know that's far from the case), but the positives probably outweigh the negatives now more than they have in recent times. 193. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.02.2011 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I believed Jeremy at first as well, Cooper, but we all know now that he's an idiot, a bigger one than I have given him credit for. Shame on him for ruining his already damaged NASCAR career. "With another wild finish to a championship battle likely, the emergence of young talent coupled with interesting personalities that we have not seen in a while (Brad K., Trevor Bayne, and soon guys like Austin Dillon and Ricky Stenhouse)" Time will tell if these drivers can challenge for another title, but it would be very good for the sport in my opinion if they do. These guys have all shown that if you just develop a driver the right way with a good team, there will be success (my negative feelings for Austin Dillon put aside). 194. Cooper posted: 11.02.2011 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Turns out I was right when I said the "casual fans" would enjoy this race. Look, casual fans love the short tracks and super speedway races. They love crashes, controversy and close finishes. This race produced all three of these. If mainstream America had it there way, they would have the NASCAR schedule full of Martinsville's and Talladega's. But you have to understand, a main reason for NASCAR's growth 10 years ago was because of the growth of the casual fan market. Unfortunately the fans that left the sport 3-4 years ago were those casual fans. So NASCAR needs to target their market and go with what they believe is the best way to move into the future. 195. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.02.2011 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anybody else notice that the ratings have been doing really well lately? Every race in the Chase (with the exception of Chicago which was run on a Monday) has seen an increase in viewers from last season - And this weeks race at Martinsville was the best yet, seeing about a 25% jump over last year's same race. It even beat the 2009 number when the Martinsville race aired on ABC (It's a big deal for an ESPN number to beat a comparable ABC number)." Is the product "racing" good? Yep (reguardless of any of think its boring) Has the Chase worked out well? Yep again (even tho it sucks, and chances are 5-time isn't winning it this year) "With another wild finish to a championship battle likely, the emergence of young talent coupled with interesting personalities that we have not seen in a while (Brad K., Trevor Bayne, and soon guys like Austin Dillon and Ricky Stenhouse), and of course the Danica factor being just around the corner, Nascar may be on the front end of its biggest upswing in many, many years. I'm not trying to say that everything's perfect (because we all know that's far from the case), but the positives probably outweigh the negatives now more than they have in recent times." Sadly, people choose to focus on the bad and not the good. And that is sickening, there is good things going for NASCAR but "fans" choose not to see it that way (and media doesn't help either). Well i'm glad JM got karma, because he got it BAD. He tried to (and failed) bring down NASCAR a peg and he didn't do it, instead he brought himself down a 100 pegs. GAME, SET, MATCH: NASCAR WINS. And for those who defended JM, hows that crow taste? "Turns out I was right when I said the "casual fans" would enjoy this race. Look, casual fans love the short tracks and super speedway races. They love crashes, controversy and close finishes. This race produced all three of these. If mainstream America had it there way, they would have the NASCAR schedule full of Martinsville's and Talladega's. But you have to understand, a main reason for NASCAR's growth 10 years ago was because of the growth of the casual fan market. Unfortunately the fans that left the sport 3-4 years ago were those casual fans. So NASCAR needs to target their market and go with what they believe is the best way to move into the future." Even old fans want what "new" and "casual" fans want. It really doesn't matter what NASCAR tries to do cater to "fans", they get egg their face reguardless because in the eyes of some, its wrong....no matter what it is. 196. Talon64 posted: 11.02.2011 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He tried to (and failed) bring down NASCAR a peg and he didn't do it, instead he brought himself down a 100 pegs." Apparently it was working for a while, if people actually had any belief that he was innocent. I never believed Mayfield. I saw no reason for NASCAR to throw Mayfield under the bus and they wouldn't risk the backlash if they actually did and got caught red-handed at any point. And I don't like the odds that NASCAR's framing Mayfield and planted the drugs, guns and Red Bull Racing property in his house. Now Mayfield's no better than the Charlie Sheen of NASCAR, except instead of winning races he's "winning". In fact he's the Dale Earnhardt of "winning", and this is his Daytona 500 win. 197. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.02.2011 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, that definitively answers the "did he or didn't he?" soap opera. Looks like he was on illicit meth. As I said on his driver page, I thought he was on something. I thought he was addicted to a chicken soup of medications instead of meth because the majority of people on meth lose their hair, teeth, and turn whiter than Bill Elliott in the winter. One of my good friends has a cousin addicted to meth and he looks like he is right out of a Resident Evil movie. Somehow The Squeal avoided that. Oh well. One of the more promising careers that was derailed by bad attitudes, public squabbles, and finally a meth addiction. And this makes that 2000 Pocono race even worse. 198. LordLowe posted: 11.02.2011 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon 64 the only thing that Mayfield might have won is a permanent trip to Jail or the afterlife 199. Red posted: 11.02.2011 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's kinda scary, but it's looks like the Cup series will only have 25 legitimate, full-time teams in 2012. Losing: #6, #00, #33, #82, #83 Gaining: #15 Remember when a top 15 was considered a good finish? Next year 15th will essentially be in the bottom half of the field. And half the cars will make the chase. Ugh. On a positive note, if anyone scrounges up enough money to start a new team, there will be plenty of open spots in the field. 200. Cooper posted: 11.02.2011 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, you bring up a point I should've mentioned earlier...Why has Rusty Wallace not moved his team up to Cup Series competition. As much as Steven Wallace would get his ass kicked, he could manage a Top 30 points position while pocketing 60000 a week. Why does Rusty toil around the Nationwide Series losing his hard earned money when he could do so much better? If Rusty and Steve want to ever make it to the Cup Series, the time is now. This also goes for Turner Motorsports and all other owners wasting money in the lower series. If Phil Parsons was smart enough to take advantage of the system, than surely others are too. 201. Eric posted: 11.02.2011 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think anyone outside of NASCAR in their right mind would start a new team right now even if they have the money. NASCAR needs to turn their top 35 cup team locked in a starting spot into only the top 25 locked in a starting spot. The 35 rule is a problem because it discourages people outside of NASCAR to start a new team. Right now, if the top 35 rule didn't exist, it would encourage more people outside of current NASCAR team organizations to start a new team if they have the money. The only NASCAR Team organization I could see adding another full time cup team in the next cup years is Stewart-Haas racing when Danica Patrick is ready for going cup racing full time. I didn't say RCR, because I see Austin Dillon taking Jeff Burton's spot in 2014, unless Ty Dillon gets moves up to the cup series sooner than I expected. 202. Eric posted: 11.02.2011 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MWR getting Mark Martin is a terrible move despite David Newton thinks the opposite. David Newton actually typed in today's chat that he had that MWR is stronger next year with Truex, Bowyer, and Martin/Micheal Waltrip sharing the part time 00 ride. Mark still can be a great Nationwide driver, but he is going to struggle big time with MWR with him being 53 next year. MWR is a mid pack organization that is being run poorly. 203. Eric posted: 11.02.2011 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to type Michael Waltrip instead of "Micheal Waltrip". 204. cjs3872 posted: 11.02.2011 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, you're right on the money in saying that NASCAR needs to cut the number of exempt cars from 35 to 25, which would mean that instead of eight cars, or 16-18 percent of the field being available for those that have to make the field on time, 18 cars, or 40 percent of the field would be available. That would allow for more new teams to start into the sport, and allow for existing ones to expand, while lessing the dangers of them missing the race, because more spots would be available, which was my point when I brought this up last week. And Cooper, for your point about Rusty Wallace Racing going up to Cup, they're having enough trouble finding sponsorship to stay in the Nationwide Series as it is. In fact, they may have to cut back their Nationwide efforts due to a loss of sponsorship from two full-time teams to either two part-time teams or one full-time and one part-time team. And Steve Turner's team is cutting back in the Nationwide Series, going from four to three cars for the same reason, and we still have no earthly idea what's going to happen with Roush's Nationwide program, whether it's going to go from three down to two full-time cars, or one full-time car and one part-time car, just one full-time car, or not even exist at all next year. And where would that leave Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. and Trevor Bayne? 205. The Voice of Reason posted: 11.03.2011 - 1:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know it's going to be fashionable to rip on Jeremy Mayfield, but I feel sorry for him. Addiction is a disease, and he needs help. I know his behavior these last few years has turned off a lot of people, but I'm sure to his friends and family they don't even see the same person they knew 5 or 6 years ago. He's probably battling depression or another mental health issue, and is using drugs to cope. This really isn't the time to be kicking a man when he's down, now is the time to get this guy some help. I know in our country we don't like to talk about mental health issues, and we'd just assume throw any drug-user in jail like a piece of trash, but that doesn't accomplish anything. Mayfield can be rehabilitated, and doing that would be best for everyone. Instead of letting him rot in prison, because I assure you, what he's going throw now is worse than any prison. He's cut off from who he really is as a person, and to me, that's punishment enough. 206. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2011 - 10:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ 205, I agree a lot about addiction being an illness. And I hope he finds proper help and gets his life straightened out. But the fact is he got busted and promptly attacked the very credibility of NASCAR. Granted NASCAR and Brain France (not a typo) make themselves a very easy target, he had many people casting a negative eye towards NASCAR which, for once, was unwarrented. Worst of all, for fans who have closely followed this sport and have been disillusioned by the direction it has taken, he took advantage of them and their wish to see Brain and his goons taken down. All the while he knew he was lying through his should-be-missing front teeth. He knowingly betrayed their trust and faith. It is still ok for us to be mad at him for that. Yes addiction is a true illness and denial is a huge symptom of that. But to go directly after the people keeping you from driving while incredibly altered, attack them personally, and create such a public mess is inexcusable. Yes, Jeremy is a naturally combative person (just ask Penske and Evernham) and vindictive (see Evernham), but that was still inexcusable. I know how badly mental illness can derail you. I battled illness in the form of extreme anxiety disorders for three years after graduating from college. Fortunately I have a great support group around me, allowing me to get the right help, and I now have the career I really want to have (a paramedic). But you have to want help and be willing to accept it. I will post a few good articles from people who were pulling for Jeremy and believed him. I also wanted him to be innocent so he could blow a huge hole in NASCAR's bow. Unfortunately I knew Jeremy's past and pretty much knew something was up. On his driver's page I always said I felt he was guilty. I softened it a bit because I figured if he was on illicit meth, he would look awful (I guess some people don't get affected physically as much). So I thought he was taking a cocktail of persciption meds. But as it turns out, he was on the real deal. Worst of all, his attorney released a statement saying Mayfield had no idea the stolen items were on his property (seriously? is he saying somebody planted them there?) and that he had illicit meth in his house (funny how that can suddenly just appear in your house). Looks like he is still going the denial route and will continue with wild accusations (surely to come). http://www.frontstretch.com/ghorton/36234/ http://racingwithrich.com/?p=1561 207. Bronco posted: 11.03.2011 - 10:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's a shame about what might happen to Reutimann. Owns both of MWR's only wins and outperforms Truex last year despite being on the worse team, yet gets kicked to the curb for whatever reasons. It's highly doubtful he'll get another Cup ride, so I'm hoping he at least moves down to the trucks (Turner?/ESR?) and starts winning there. Looks like we know the truth about Mayfield now. If he had come clean back in 2009 he would have been reinstated by now. Where are all the people that said Carl would make a mistake and that Matt was the top guy at Ford? Matt was the one that intentionally wrecked the #83 and then took out the #18 and himself, all this on a day when he could have snagged the point lead. There should be no more questions about why Ford paid millions to keep Carl in their fold. 208. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2011 - 10:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Remember when a top 15 was considered a good finish? Next year 15th will essentially be in the bottom half of the field. And half the cars will make the chase. Ugh." That is a sobering reality. "Mark still can be a great Nationwide driver, but he is going to struggle big time with MWR with him being 53 next year. MWR is a mid pack organization that is being run poorly." I agree. His best days as a driver are done. He has made more mistakes leading to wrecks this year than he has in all his other years combined. Going to MWR, he can forget about having a shot at anything. "Where are all the people that said Carl would make a mistake and that Matt was the top guy at Ford?" Still here. A lot of racing still to go, and he has yet to encounter ANY bad luck in the cha$e. He will need to hope that horseshoe stays put and that Smoke cools off again. Besides, all he can do this year is tie Kenseth for championship total. 209. Anonymous posted: 11.03.2011 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Where are all the people that said Carl would make a mistake and that Matt was the top guy at Ford? Matt was the one that intentionally wrecked the #83 and then took out the #18 and himself, all this on a day when he could have snagged the point lead. There should be no more questions about why Ford paid millions to keep Carl in their fold." Uh, Kenseth ran top 10 all day and cut a tire that led to the wreck with Kyle Busch. Edwards ran like a bag of crap all day, got multiple lucky dogs, two other yellows when he was about to go a lap down, and was fortunate to never be in the wrong place at the wrong time despite running in traffic for the duration of the event. He finished 9th because about 15 cars who were better than him had trouble. Let's get real!!! If Kenseth and Edwards had equal luck on Sunday, the 17 would have finished well ahead of the 99. 210. Bronco posted: 11.03.2011 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Besides, all he can do this year is tie Kenseth for championship total." Wrong. Matt's championship was based on the cumulative season points system, and based on that same system Carl outscored everyone else in 2008, so if he can hold onto his 34 point lead, then that makes him a 2 time champion. "Uh, Kenseth ran top 10 all day and cut a tire that led to the wreck with Kyle Busch." And if Matt hadn't wasted his efforts playing bumper cars with the #83 he might not have had cut that tire, which led to the trip to the garage. 211. cjs3872 posted: 11.03.2011 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, I was the mian one, along with DSFF, that said that Kenseth would have a better chance to win the title than Edwards, because of the experience of both Kenseth and crew chief Jimmy Fennig, as well as the fact that Kenseth would not make the big mistake that Edwards would. Obviously, I was DEAD WRONG in that assessment. Now both have made key mistakes, but Edwards' didn't cost him, while Kenseth's cost him a chance at the title, as it's now a two-man race between Kenseth and Tony Stewart, as everyone else is at least half a race behind the leader in points. But judging by the mind games that Stewart has started to play on Edwards, it's obvious that Stewart also knows about Edwards' reputation and history of not being able to get it done when it really counts, as well as Edwards' history of making key mistakes, and Stewart may be trying to coax Edwards into making the one error that would virtually hand Stewart a third title, much like Darrell Waltrip did to Bill Elliott's team in 1985, which would up gift-wrapping Waltrip's third title in five years and Junior Johnson's sixth in ten years. Remember that winning the championship is about who makes the fewest mistakes, not who runs the best. Just remember that two of Jimmie Johnson's titles came when mistakes by others handed him the titles in 2008 and '10. Johnson didn't have the best cars those years, but he did have the know how, and that is clearly Stewart's big advantage over Edwards. Now if Edwards makes a big mistake, and Stewart is unable to capitalize, then four or five others could steal the title, but as of now, it's a two-man race. 212. Anonymous posted: 11.03.2011 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And if Matt hadn't wasted his efforts playing bumper cars with the #83 he might not have had cut that tire, which led to the trip to the garage." He cut the tire after contact in the pits with Harvick. The Vickers incident and the wreck the ruined Matt's day are completely unrelated. "Matt's championship was based on the cumulative season points system, and based on that same system Carl outscored everyone else in 2008, so if he can hold onto his 34 point lead, then that makes him a 2 time champion." So if Carl chokes this away (and I think there's a pretty good chance he will) and scores more cumulative points than any other driver like 2008, will you seriously try to argue that Carl's two imaginary championships are greater then Kenseth's one? - Because if the answer to this question is actually yes, I'm not wasting my time with this. 213. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2011 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Matt's championship was based on the cumulative season points system, and based on that same system Carl outscored everyone else in 2008, so if he can hold onto his 34 point lead, then that makes him a 2 time champion." 2003- The champion was determined by the season long cumulative points. Everyone knew this. 2008- The champion was determined by the amount of points the Top 12 would score over the final 10 races. Everyone knew this. Bottom line, Jimmie Johnson is the 2008 champion, no ifs ands or buts about it. Here is the current chamionship total for Matt and Carl: Matt- 1 Carl- 0 All Carl can do is tie. 214. Cooper posted: 11.03.2011 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl ain't choking this away. For the most part, Carl and the #99 team were the elite team. There was multiple occasions where I said that it was Carl's championship to lose. The only other competitor this year that had any chance was Kyle Busch. And of course, the #18 team found a way to lose. The advantages that Ford have had from their new engine, has really carried the Ford teams (particularly Carl and Matt) and when we go to a place like Texas, it's nearly impossible to beat them. It actually wouldn't surprise me to watch Carl Edwards take the checkered flag Sunday, widening his point lead to over 20. I'm sorry guys, but this Championship is a race for the #2 table in Vegas. And come on people, as much as we dislike Carl Edwards Aw shucks, Golly Me attitude he is a better race car driver than Matt Kenseth is. 215. Cooper posted: 11.03.2011 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are my stats to back up my statement that Carl is better than Matt: Edwards 7.25 Win% 32.8 Top5% 53.8 Top10% 4.99 LapLed% 80.5 LLF% *1 Championship Kenseth 4.80 Win% 25.6 Top5% 47.8 Top10% 5.24 LapLed% 72.1 LLF% 1 Championship *Assuming Carl holds on to 2011 Sprint Cup Championship The only argument that you could make was that Matt Kenseth had to race in the most competitive years that NASCAR have ever had which lowered his statistics compared to Carl's. 216. Frank posted: 11.03.2011 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey folks, could we put this win as the greatest in Tony's career? I haven't seen his wins before 2004 but from there it's definitely the best. 217. Cooper posted: 11.03.2011 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well it's official, Mark Martin strikes again! After "retiring" and doing a "Salute to You" Tour 6 years ago!, Mark Martin has managed to do the impossible. Kill another drivers career. While people respect this man, I do not. I never have. I have no respect for him. And I can't believe owners and sponsors continue to fork over money for this man. Since 2005, here's how many teams he's raced for, each of them leaving a wrecking ball of carnage... Roush--- Ginn---Joe Nemechek, Sterling Marlin DEI---Regan Smith Hendrick---Casey Mears, Brad Keselowski MWR---David Reutimann This is just my opinion of course. So Glad Mark never got a championship. Poor David, he put his heart and soul into that organization, even doing commercials with Michael to make the sponsors happy. I feel real bad for David Reutimann fans, I know how it feels to have your drivers career ripped apart because of an old man. Hopefully David finds a great place where he can kick MWR's ass. I;m dreading 2013, because that's the year when Mark asks to run a full season with MWR, and he kicks Martin Truex out. It'll happen, Mark is a vulture. 218. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2011 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Imagine if Mark walks away after 2009 and Brad takes over the #5 car (which was the plan until Mark decided to stick around) with Alan Gustafson. That could have been better or worse for Brad. He has mind bending chemistry with Paul Wolfe and they really have those Penske Dodges like Brad likes them. Last year, when Brad was totally irrelevant in the #12 car I constantly wondered how much better things would be if he could have been with HMS instead. Now it looks like a good career move. HMS definitely came out badly on this one. Mark quit delivering and Brad has really come into his own. 219. Cooper posted: 11.03.2011 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "218. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.11 - 6:06 pm" I'm more than happy that everything turned out good. Just upset for the other drivers that didn't get a fair shake. 220. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.04.2011 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even when Brad was struggling last year, I didn't think he made a bad career move. It was pretty obvious that the #12 team of last year wasn't even close to being on the same level of the #2 that Kurt was driving. I kept faith that since Penske was a winning team, and Brad being a good driver, that he would eventually start running up front, as he's doing now. Voice of Reason, I share your sentiments on Jeremy having a serious addiction and needing help. I don't think any of us are attacking him for that. It was the fact that he blatantly lied and tried to bring down NASCAR that makes him an idiot. And what if he had succeeded due to that lie? Hell, I BELIEVED HIM at first (mostly because he didn't look like he had been on drugs like some have already said)! That was just Jeremy at his finest. 221. cjs3872 posted: 11.04.2011 - 1:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Frank, the greatest win of Stewart's career is, without a doubt, the 2005 Brickyard 400, and it's not even close. He'd been trying to win there since 1996, and winning at Indy had consumed him, much like not winning the Daytona 500 consumed the careers of David Pearson, Bobby Allison, Buddy Baker, Darrell Waltrip, and Dale Earnhardt, Sr. before each of them finally won that event, Which Stewart has yet to win. and trust me, that event is consuming Stewart, given how many times he's come close to winning that event since 2004, including leading the most laps in both 2004 and '05, leading at the white flag in '08, and being a push from Mark Martin on a restart away from winning the Daytona 500 this year. But even a Daytona 500, if it ever comes to him, won't mean nearly as much to Stewart as winning the 2005 Brickyard 400 was. And for those that say Jeremy Mayfield's drug situation is an addiction, and thereby a sickness, I bring back a quote from the past. When Darryl Strawberry was having his drug problems in the early 90s, he was playing with the Los Angeles Dodgers when he was busted again. When asked about Strawberry's drug problem, legendary Dodger manager Tommy Lasorda said something that applies to all who have drug problems. His quote when referring to those who have drug problems was that "it's not a sickness, it's a weakness". 222. CarlEdwards99 posted: 11.04.2011 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "here's how many teams he's raced for, each of them leaving a wrecking ball of carnage... Roush--- Ginn---Joe Nemechek, Sterling Marlin DEI---Regan Smith Hendrick---Casey Mears, Brad Keselowski MWR---David Reutimann" how did he leave Roush in a wrecking ball of carnage? He stayed on board with Roush a extra year that he didn't want to as a favor to give Roush time to find a driver, the fact that Roush couldn't put a more competitive driver in that car is Roush's fault. And are we seriously going to argue Mark Martin was a bad thing for Roush racing? He built Roush Racing into a power. as for him screwing other drivers by taking rides, no driver is entitled to a ride, but they are entitled to take the opportunity when a owner presents it to them, and thats what Mark did in each of those cases. 223. CarlEdwards99 posted: 11.04.2011 - 1:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The only argument that you could make was that Matt Kenseth had to race in the most competitive years that NASCAR have ever had which lowered his statistics compared to Carl's." Matt also has a Daytona 500 and World 600, Carl really has no crown jewels (unless you count the Bristol night race). on the other hand, I disagree with the assertion that Matt had to race in more competitive times that Carl didn't (2000-2003). 2000-2001 was still the in between era between the Rusty Wallace-Dale Jarrett generation starting to fall off their prime and before the emergence of the Kurt Busch-Jimmie Johnson-Carl Edwards generation. IMHO, racing those seasons were a benefit to Matt, in comparison to Carl. The era may of been competitive, but in big part that is because it was weak. 224. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.04.2011 - 2:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hendrick---Casey Mears" I will say that Mark probably indirectly caused the other drivers' departure when he took over the part time rides he did, but he didn't ruin Mears' career. Casey was going to be let go from that ride eventually with his mediocre runs he was having in it, whether Mark joined HMS or not. 225. Spen posted: 11.04.2011 - 5:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sterling's career was pretty much over by '07, and Nemechek's was on life support. And it's not really Mark's fault that Ginn gutted his team. Smith and Keselowski should be glad they got the rides they ended up with. I can guarantee you that Smith would not have won the Southern 500 in the #01. As for Reutimann, from what I'm hearing, this was Aaron's call more than anything else. I can blame them for ruining his career, but not Mark for taking the ride once it was open. Cooper: After enough years, percentage stats start to water down. Let's see where Carl stacks up in his twelfth season. And let's see how he does with rapid fire crew chief changes. Bronco: "Turner?/ESR?" The #32 truck would be his best hope, I think. I don't think Sharp will have room for him. 226. cjs3872 posted: 11.04.2011 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Except, CarlEdwards99, that Matt Kenseth, and Roush Racing in general, was horrible in 2001. Remember that, until this year, 2001 was the worst year of Mark Martin's career. It wasn't until 2002, when NASCAR decided to move the final practice before the Cup race to before the Nationwide race, that Roush started to rebound, as Kurt Busch stormed to third in standings at season's end and Matt Kenseth was the season's winningest driver with five wins, not to mention that Martin recorded his fourth runner-up finish in the points standings. As for your point about 2000-'01 being an "in-between" point in NASCAR's history, actually I'd say that about 1999-2003, it would be somewhat similar to when Darrell Waltrip dominated the sport in the early 1980s. Waltrip's dominance served as a bridge between the Petty-Perason-Yarborough-Allison era of the 70s and the Earnhardt-Elliott-Wallace-Martin era of the late 80s and early-to-mid 90s. Waltrip's domination served as a bridge between those eras, much like Jeff Gordon's dominance from 1995-'01 served as a bridge between the Earnhardt-Elliott-Wallace-Martin era to the era of today's superstars, like Jimmie Johnson, Tony Stewart, the Busch brothers, and Carl Edwards. And RCRandPenskeGuy, Casey Mears' problem was the he wasn't assertive enough, a point that Alan Gustavson, his crew chief in 2008 at Hendrick, pointed out. Gustavson wanted him to be more assertive, but that's not in his personality. Casey, like his uncle Rick, is and always has been laid back, kind of like the area of the country he's from. Actually, there were points in 2009 in which Casey Mears was the top performing driver at Richard Childress Racing. The only reason he didn't stay at RCR was sponsorship problems, but Childress did want to keep him there for 2010, but there was no sponsorship to allow him to do so. And Spen, your point about how averages go down as time goes by is right on the money. Remember when Jeff Gordon's winning percentage was the highest in the history of the sport? It's considerably less than that now. As the sport gets more competitve and the drivers get older, the winning percentages are always going to go down. Dale Earnhardt and Darrell Waltrip once tore up the circuit, but their overall winning percentages didn't wind up nearly as high. For their entire careers in NASCAR's highest series, Earnhardt's winning percentage was 11.24 percent and Waltrip's was 10.38 percent. Yet nobody's ever going to convince me that they weren't as good as some drivers today that have a comparable or higher winning percentage. 227. Cooper posted: 11.04.2011 - 10:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's the thing though with the percentage stats. There not going to go down, they're probably going to go up. As has been mentioned on here, there is going to be 25 competitive teams next year. Getting a Top 5 or a Top 10 isn't going to be nearly as hard as it was years ago. That's why I mentioned Kenseth in the Competitive era, because it's kind of hard to collect Top 5's or Top 10's when there are 35 cars with a chance to win. Proof? 45 drivers received a Top 10 in 2001, while just 33 did this year Next year, drivers like Montoya/Martin Truex/Ambrose could conceivably get 15 or more Top 10's next year. I didn't want to offend Mark Martin or Martin fans, but I just don't understand what he could possibly accomplish at MWR? I know Mark Martin loves to race, but he could get his racing fix in other ways. Why would Aaron's not be happy with Reutimann? David looks like a furniture salesman, I would buy appliances from him. A 53 year old man, I wouldn't. He's also put the car in victory lane twice, the only wins in MWR history. I know it sounds primitive, but the general public thinks like this. 228. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2011 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reut is a fun guy to root for. He is the ultimate underdog, a guy who got his start way late in the "young and handsome" era. He has driver for a joke of an organization and brought it its only shred of respectability. In other words, he is the anti Dale JR. Mark on the other hand is entering Brett Favre territory, they guy we respect but just won't bow out gracefully. I think itnis definitely a bad move for MWR, but it is a move that will get them attention and that is all Mikey cares about. Yet another season of mediocre runs and tons of excuses lay ahead. 229. cjs3872 posted: 11.04.2011 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Cooper, when I mentioned percentages, I was referring to win percentage. Top five and top ten percentages will also go down as a driver's career progresses, and he gets older. There may not be as many competitve cars as there were five years ago, but there are still more competitve cars than there were 10 or 15 years ago, though that'sm mostly due to the multi-car teams. There may only be seven top-echelon teams today, but they represent as many as 20 cars, of half the field, so competition among those cars is still going to be as tough as ever, hence the top five and top ten percentages going down. Now if you limited the multi-car teams to two cars each, you'd have a much different story. But then, you'd only have 30-35 cars showing up for even the biggest races. In fact, if you limited the multi-car teams to two cars, I believe you'd have a hard time getting a full field for thne Daytona 500. Certainly, you would't get a full field of quality cars for the Daytona 500. Now one thing I'd like to see, but we all know will never happen, is a situation where the Daytona 500, as well as, say the Brickyard 400, gets a field of quality drivers from different disciplines of racing. I believe that the 1981 Daytona 500 may have had the most diverse field in that event's history. Along with the constellation of NASCAR stars, you had two men, each of whom had won the Indianapolis 500 at least three times in Johnny Rutherford and A.J. Foyt, who had won Indy four times. Reigning Indy 500 Rookie of the Year Tim Richmond, who was about to embark on a NASCAR career, was in that race, as well as sports car drivers Don Whittington and Elliott Forbes-Robinson. Power boat racing was represented by Bill Elswick, who was following in the footsteps of Salt Walther, who also came to auto racing from the power boats, in fact, that's how he got the name "Salt". Not to mention that Stan Barrett, the world's land speed record holder at the time, was also in that race. I'd like to see the Daytona 500 field expanded to 50 cars to give a chance to see that diversity that existed back in the 1970s and '80s. After all, wouldn't it be nice to see Penske enter cars for Will Power and three-time Indy winner Helio Castroneves, or have Ganassi enter cars for Dario Franchitti [who was in the 2008 race] and Scott Dixon, or one for Scott Pruett, or see drivers from other racing disciplines run in the Daytona 500, just like the old days. That, to me, would once again set iti apart from all the other NASCAR races, because all it is today is just another NASCAR race, though the biggest of them all. And wouldn't it be nice to see IndyCar and sports car drivers in the Daytona 500 again, if only for that one race a year. Remember that other IndyCar drivers that ran in the Daytona 500 in the 1970s and '80s include the likes of Gordon Johncock, Dick Simon, Gary and Tony Bettenhausen, Tom Sneva, Chet Fillip, Pancho Carter, Ed Pimm, and others. Numerous sports car drivers also drive in the Daytona 500 in this period. They included Mark Donohue, George Follmer, Elliott Fornes-Robinson, Bill and Don Whittington. And there were probably others. Even sprint car racing legend Sammy Swindell ran in the 1991 Daytona 500 in a one-off for Dick Moroso [Ironically his son Kevin was one of the drivers chosen to sub for Trevor Bayne when Bayne got sick. Sammy Swindell drove in the Daytona 500 two days before Bayne was born, making Kevin's replacing Bayne a supreme irony.]. The era of drivers from other disciplines running one-offs in the Daytona 500 ended with Al Unser, Jr.'s appearance in the 1993 race, in which he crashed with Bobby Hillin, Jr. Ironically, Al Unser, Sr. drove for Bobby Hillin, Sr.'s Longhorn Racing team from 1980-'82. 230. 00andJoe posted: 11.04.2011 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like I'll have to change my handle next year. Also looks like The Long-Awaited Event has finally happened... ...Michael Waltrip was left speechless. (Yeah, by that other long-awaited event, Meltdown #18.) 231. Frank posted: 11.06.2011 - 3:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, sorry for poor English - speaking "greatest" I mean not weight of the event in NASCAR and/or relations driver with the place. I mean race scenario. In 05 #20 was car to beat everywhere especially summer. Holding Kasey Kahne on the worst track for overtaking isn't a big task for Tony Stewart in his prime. In Martinsville he struggled most of the race but did his best to keep Hamlin behind genuinely using traffic, then took 2 tyres, supposed puncture, took four, but luck was on his side and he got second chance to take two again. Finally, he passed JJ on outside at one of the best #48 tracks. Do any of other 40 wins can compete? 232. the_man posted: 11.24.2011 - 9:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on a 33rd place finish: "That was the craziest Martinsville race I've ever seen. No one had any respect for each other and everyone was just driving hard. I don't know if it was the cold temperatures or if it's going to be a full moon tonight, but everyone was just driving hard. We didn't even have much damage, but a small piece of radiator shroud dropped a hole in our radiator and we had to pit. We had a top five or top 10 car. There were a lot of ups and downs and controversy, but we weren't fortunate enough to have luck on our side." 233. Robert Nelson posted: 07.13.2012 - 1:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Kyle Busch 272 Carl Edwards 265 Jimmie Johnson 255 6th. Kevin Harvick 204 (6th driver to get 200 points) F1 points Chase Jimmie Johnson 65 Brad Keselowski 64 Matt Kenseth 61 F1 points real life Chase Tony Stewart 85 Jimmie Johnson 65 Matt Kenseth 61 234. Ed posted: 09.04.2012 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm surprised none of you stat guys mentioned this yet: with the win, Tony eclipsed the $100,000,000 mark for career earnings. 235. Anonymous posted: 04.11.2014 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red Bull Sponsors 4/83 - Red Bull/Apple Market 236. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 04.24.2014 - 12:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew 77 Robby Gordon Dodge Speed Energy Robby Gordon 77 Andy Lally Ford TRG Motorsports Kevin Buckler 237. Big Mac Fan posted: 11.10.2015 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even when McMurray attempts to crash someone he fails miserably. 238. chevyfan98 posted: 08.14.2016 - 12:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race might be the only time I've seen McMurray angry at someone. Although the way Vickers was driving that day, I don't blame him. 239. RaceFanX posted: 02.12.2017 - 12:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As mentioned way back in post 48 Joey Lagano ran an Interstate Batteries car in this race to mark the company's 20th anniversary with Joe Gibbs. This was the only time all season that Lagano's #20 Toyota Camry wasn't sponsored primarily by Home Depot and his only Cup start during his tenure with Gibbs' that put him in Interstate's white-and-green colors; he crashed the specially painted #20 early in the race but came back to still finish on the lead lap in the top-20 after catching a two free passes. 240. RaceFanX posted: 03.03.2017 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For years this looked like it would this DNQ would be Derrike Cope's last attempt at Cup but he made the field at Atlanta in 2017. 241. Gdj_24 posted: 11.05.2017 - 2:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Vickers was involved in a staggering 5 cautions in this race, mainly single car incidents, besides the McMurray wreck. 242. TheDewCrew posted: 04.30.2020 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, I'd like to place my order fora NASCAR race. I want a Chase race, with as many cautions as possible. A good crowd on hand, and a decent number of lead changes. Oh, and could I have a side of Vickernism? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: