|| *Comments on the 2011 AAA Texas 500:* View the most recent comment <#305> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Talon64 posted: 11.04.2011 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle earns his career-high 3rd pole of 2011, tying him with Kurt Busch and Ryan Newman for the series lead, and 9th career pole. But if Biffle fails to translate pole into a good finish (yet again), then Biffle could leave Texas with more poles on the year than top 5's (2). Biffle deprived Roush teammate David Ragan of the TMS season pole sweep by 1 thousandth of a second. Roush swept the top 3, as Matt Kenseth qualified 3rd. He started 4th when he dominated the April race on the way to the victory. His 14.8 avg start in 2011 is his best since he averaged 14.6 in 2006 (finished 2nd in points). Paul Menard (and the monstrosity that's growing on his face) earned his 5th top 10 start in the last 6 races and his 7th top 5 start of 2011. After just 2 top 5 starts in the first 30 races of the season (19.7 avg start), Tony Stewart has 2 top 5 starts in the last 3 races (including the pole at Charlotte). 2. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle's 3rd pole of the season and 9th career pole ties him with Kurt Busch and Ryan Newman for the most poles this season. Biffle's pole is the series-leading 9th pole of the year for Roush-Fenway Racing and all four RFR drivers have multiple poles. Penske, SHR, and Hendrick are tied for second most poles as a team with 4 and Hendrick's 4 poles are the 4 restrictor plate races(Junior at the 500, Jeff Gordon at Talladega in the spring, and Mark Martin at Daytona in July and Talladega in October). 3. Talon64 posted: 11.04.2011 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) whoops, meant 3 top 5 starts in the last 4 races for Stewart. 4. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For some reason when Biffle has a fast car he's completely hit and miss. Sometimes he'll rocket off for half the race and look like the guy to beat and the second half of the race he'll be junk(like this year's August race at Michigan when he started on the pole). 5. Cooper posted: 11.04.2011 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good qualifying effort for David Reutimann, as he out qualifies his teammate with a 6th place run. His replacement for next year qualified a pitiful 30th. As I mentioned in the previous race comments, Ford's huge advantage on the intermediates continue as they earn the first 3 positions on the grid. Carl Edwards the points leader qualifies in 7th, which will give him great track position in Sunday's race. 6. Talon64 posted: 11.04.2011 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NNS qualifying just ended. Elliott Sadler put in on the pole, with Stenhouse qualifying 4th. Sadler and the #2 team's putting a lot more pressure on Stenhouse than I thought they'd be, although with Kyle Busch qualifying 2nd their chances of leading the 1st lap are nil at best. Carl Edwards only qualified 8th (for him and his 4.7 avg start in NNS, that's mediocre) while Kyle's 2nd, which is important to note for the owners battle; the #18 comes into the weekend with just a 7 point lead over the 60, while the #6 is 3rd but well out of it at 79 points back. 7. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2011 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "His replacement for next year qualified a pitiful 30th." Are you talking about Mark Favre? 8. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes he is. I have a feeling this race is going to be a really good race or its gonna be a stinker. 9. Cooper posted: 11.04.2011 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I was referring to Mark "Old Fartin" Martin but Mark Favre will do. As long as my driver does well, than I'll enjoy it. My enjoyment of a race is positively correlated with Brad's performance. Looking back on the Spring race, I enjoyed that race a lot.The long green flag runs and the differing strategies gave that race a different angle. 10. Cooper posted: 11.04.2011 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch just lost his damn mind! Truck race. My God. 11. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I have no clue what Kyle was thinking. The SPEED crew seemed to only care about Hornaday's truck and the championship implications more than if Hornaday was okay. 12. Matt posted: 11.04.2011 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR needs to park Kyle for the rest of the year in all series. That was beyond out of line and crossing into the psychopathic. 13. OldSchoolNascarDude posted: 11.04.2011 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if Kyle would feel the same way if Ron entered the cup race next week? 14. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not defending Kyle here, because what he did was absolutely ridiculous, but I think we all forgetting that Jeff Burton hooked Jeff Gordon into the wall at this same track last year in the Cup race, blatantly on purpose, at similar speeds and no action was taken after the race. 15. The Deuce posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Busch didn't have to wreck Hornaday, but then again, Hornaday didn't need to force a 3-wide situation when there was no room, and put Kyle Busch up into the wall. Seeing as how Hornaday had a lot more too lose, he should have known that Kyle Busch is consistent about one thing: if you wreck him in a race, he will respond immediately. No pussy-footing around, no waiting until later in the race, he takes care of it right then and there. And being in a Harvick truck to boot? What the heck was Hornaday thinking trying to make that move work? Busch doesn't care about your championship, all he cares about is winning the race. And when you take away his chances to do that, he doesn't care what happens. You don't drive like an idiot around Kyle Busch, because the man has no care whatsoever for your, or any fans that happen to be watching, feelings. 16. TheChaseBlowsChunks posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Remember everyone, when Dale Earnhardt did it he was "The Intimidator", when Kyle Busch does it, he's a punk. Ok, continue with your regularly scheduled outrage and blowing things way out proportion. 17. Texas Terry posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I doubt they'll park Busch for anything besides possibly the final Truck race. I think he made his case well, there was blame on both sides of the situation, and he admits he lost his cool, which, after being wrecked so frequently lately - almost always in stuff that wasn't remotely his fault - is somewhat understandable. Since I'm more of a Hornaday fan, I'm a tad irritated at how this played out, but I'm also really disappointed that Ron wasn't racing more conservatively. He had so much more to lose, and you have to be careful around someone so aggressive like Kyle Busch when he's in this series. 18. myothercarisanM535i posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It'll be ridiculous if NASCAR doesn't take some kind of action here. And I mean on a larger scale, not just punishing Kyle Busch. For an organization that apparently takes safety so seriously, the way they handle certain elements of racing is nothing short of appalling. 19. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Easiest way to avoid a situation like this, keep Cup drivers out of the lower series all together. 20. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Time to give Kyle the ever useful NASCAR double secret Probation. 21. Cooper posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "16. TheChaseBlowsChunks posted: 11.04.11 - 9:09 pm" Earnhardt rode another drivers bumper down the backstretch, than hooked his right rear quarter panel, which resulted into a head on crash at 150 MPH? Haven't seen that race before, I'd like to see it! C'mon Man... 22. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards didn't get parked after Atlanta. How can you park Busch after this? Similar tracks, lower speeds, a less violent wreck, immediate "boys have at it" type of retaliation.... Hornaday isn't completely without fault. No way they park Busch. 23. DanicaPatrick'sFlatChest posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, even as a Kyle fan, I can't really defend this. Certainly there needs to be some punishment, but there's no way NASCAR parks the 18 in the other series. Like was just mentioned in #22, Edwards and Keselowski at Atlanta was a similar situation with an even more violent outcome, and Edwards wasn't parked the next week. 24. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #23, I have a similar feeling about how Kyle won't be parked. My biggest problem with the SPEED broadcast was they never once said a single word about Ron Hornaday's condition before they interviewed him. Just to be clear, Harvick was parked at Martinsville in 2002 because he was on probation for jumping over Greg Biffle's car and trying to choke Biffle and two weeks later he said over the radio that he was going to kill Coy Gibbs and then intentionally wrecked him and then caused a big fit at the NASCAR trailer. 25. 330 p4 posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I lost some respect for Kyle Busch here. Not necessarily for losing his cool, I understand why he was frustrated, but instead for continuing with trying wreck Hornaday when his spotter (or crew chief or whoever it was) was pleading with him "Calm down, calm down!" Busch may be the owner, so he is the one who has to pay for it, but his team is the one that has to put in the extra hours at the shop because of this. All for a truck which, as they said in the prerace, the team put a lot of time and effort into. It just doesn't sit too well with me. 26. New 14&88 Fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Both Hornaday and Kyle goofed here, Ron should of never tried to make it three-wide going on the outside of the lapped truck and Kyle shouldn't of been so close to his door.That said what Kyle did was way wrong...I don't care how mad you are at some one YOU DO NOT WREAK SOME ONE UNDER CAUTION!! Especially hooking them in the right fender and turning them head on into the wall, kick the other guys ass after the race if you have to but don't for goodness sake crash him under caution. "Edwards didn't get parked after Atlanta. How can you park Busch after this? Similar tracks, lower speeds, a less violent wreck, immediate "boys have at it" type of retaliation.... Hornaday isn't completely without fault. No way they park Busch." That's just NASCAR deciding when and where they'll enforce their own rules, otherwise Jeff Burton would of been parked the last two races last year for wreaking Jeff Gordon under yellow. "Easiest way to avoid a situation like this, keep Cup drivers out of the lower series all together." Or limit number of lower series starts a Cup driver can make in a year, that way developing drivers like Ryan Truex and Parker Kilgermen get to run more races and gain experience. 27. Cooper posted: 11.04.2011 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why not strip the purse money that Kyle will earn? Every time a driver gets "parked" the team shouldn't be eligible for their portion of the purse money. The money that is lost, is then donated to charity. At least some good can come from some bad situations. $10000 might not mean a lot to Kyle, but it would mean a lot to some other people. Just a thought. 28. Matt posted: 11.04.2011 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle's already on probation, if NASCAR doesn't do anything here they might as well stop pretending their probation means anything. 29. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle hasn't been on probation since June. 30. KurtBusch22Fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason Burton wasn't parked probably because they were both Cup drivers. Busch wrecked a truck regular in championship contention. Besides, it wouldn't make a difference if Kyle was parked or not, he probably wouldn't have gotten back on the track, anyways. 31. 00andJoe posted: 11.04.2011 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The SPEED crew seemed to only care about Hornaday's truck and the championship implications more than if Hornaday was okay. " "My biggest problem with the SPEED broadcast was they never once said a single word about Ron Hornaday's condition before they interviewed him." They did note the window net was down almost immediately - guess you missed that. The most surprising thing about all this: Mikey being left speechless! 32. 18fan posted: 11.04.2011 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #31, I guess I did miss that, but I don't think they mentioned that he got out of his truck unless Ron got out while they were in commercial. 33. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing about the incident that led to Kyle Busch wrecking Hornaday and himself. Yes, Hornaday should not have made it three wide that early, but what else could he have done? He closed up on the 07 truck so fast, that the only safe move he could have made was the one he did make, much like the J.R. Hildebrand-Charlie Kimball situation at the end of this year's Indianapolis 500. If he had tried to slow down, it would have been an awful mess, because he was closing in so fast that he would have run right over the 07 truck, and caused a bigger mess, and taken out not only himself, Kyle Busch, and the 07 truck, but quite possibly Kevin Harvick and a few others. I would estimate that Hornaday caught the 07 truck at about the rate of 20 MPH, if not more. There was no way he could've done anything else. The 07 truck should have been on the track apron, because it was obvious that the 07 truck was disabled. That said, Kyle Busch showed just what a punk he is, and always will be by doing what he did. After all, nobody hated losing more than A.J. Foyt, but you would never see Foyt pull a stunt like that in a million years. why? Beacuse he actually had respect for his fellow competitors. Same for Dale Earnhardt, Sr. He hated to lose and couldn't stand being wronged. But what he would do was to file that in his memory bank for later, maybe not even in the same race, but somewhere down the line, you knew that if you crossed Earnhardt, that you would get yours, but Earnhardt would never interfere with the flow of a race just to pay someone else back. After all, there could have been more than just the two trucks involved in the payback incident. When drivers decide to pay others back, they NEVER consider that others might be involved. Let's go back to the spring race at Bristol in 1997 when Geoff Bodine intentionally wrecked Jimmy Spencer late in the race. Who got the worst end of that deal? Steve Grissom, who suffered foot injuries from being involved in that incident, as well. There is a time and a place for payback, and Texas is not such a place, due to the speeds, and under caution when the field is bunching up is definately not the time, because innocent victims could be involved. But Busch is a punk that will never learn his lessons. He's probably still speeding on the roads, even after going 128 MPH earlier this year and being caught. Let's hope that Joe Gibbs, one of the great people in the sport, finally get smart and do what Rick Hendrick did in 2007, and fire this jerk who doesn't even put his own safety into consideration. I don't care who he would replace Kyle Busch with, it will be an improvement, as far as being a good person is concerned. 34. 18fan posted: 11.05.2011 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, the problem is very few of the younger drivers in the sport today have respect for their competitors. Kevin Harvick most likely would have done something similar if he was in the similar situation. Carl Edwards acts like a good guy and all and then twice he intentionally wrecks Brad Keselowski in a span of four months, including one that was worse than what Kyle did and turning a driver at 195 miles an hour WHILE 150+ LAPS DOWN. I think drivers respecting their competitors is just something these young guys don't have and if they continue the way they do payback situations will only get worse in the future. 35. 18fan posted: 11.05.2011 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) There should be no "and" between the phrase "What Kyle did" and the phrase "turning a driver..." There should be a comma there instead. 36. 00andJoe posted: 11.05.2011 - 1:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hidden in all the hoo-haw, it seems Andy Lally might be replaced in the #71 for the race. Not sure by who. Not hidden in all the hoo-haw, Hornaday has declared that if NASCAR doesn't park Busch, he'll buy a Tommy Baldwin car and do it himself... 37. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.05.2011 - 2:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) There was no excuse for what Kyle did in that Truck race. The first sentence of his interview was ridiculous, hell maybe even his whole interview. "Considering what he was going for, he could have played it safe and let me go by" C'MON, MAN! Just because you are a Cup driver dipping down in a lower series doesn't give you the right to have people roll over for you! That was SIMPLE RACING, and turning Ron head on into the wall UNDER CAUTION(!) was just a low-class move that ranks alongside Jeff Burton's wrecking of Jeff Gordon in the Cup event last year, and Carl Edwards' wrecking of Brad Keselowski at Gateway in last year's Nationwide race (in response to, you guessed it, a simple racing bump. If some of these guys had to race against Petty, Pearson, Yarborough, Allison etc, they'd have been taken to the woodshed for pulling that stuff on them). Anyway, a Cup driver takes out a Truck championship contender, and another Cup driver wins the race. That event will easily be forgotten. Let's talk about THIS event. So far, four of my favorites (Biffle, Reut, Brad K and Bayne) have gotten off to a good start to the weekend. Considering how they've run at tracks like these, I think they all have a good chance at a good finish. Remember, Bayne ran in the top 10 and was getting better as time went by before his issues at Charlotte. 38. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 7:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, the real problem with some of the younger competitors lacking respect is that there isn't anyone around that demands that you respect your competitors today. There is no Richard Petty, Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, A.J. Foyt, or Dale Earnhardt, Sr. around to set these younger drivers straight. If you got out of line when those drivers were around, they'd let you know in no uncertain terms. Unforntunately, there are more guys like Kyle Busch, Juan Montoya, Kevin Harvick, Carl Edwards, etc. among the younger drivers, although you can say that Harvick, and to a lesser extent, Edwards and Montoya, no longer can be called "young" drivers, than there are guys like Joey Logano, Regan Smith, Trevor Bayne and their kind, who are younger drivers that actually seem to respect their fellow competitors. Now Logano and Bayne have had their moments, but at least Logano, Bayne, and Smith do seem to respect their competitors, which is something Busch, and those others should someday learn, but likely never will. 39. 18fan posted: 11.05.2011 - 10:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR has sent Kyle Busch home for the rest of the weekend. Michael McDowell will apparently run the #18 car on Sunday. I am a Kyle fan, but I have to agree with the decision because it was necessary and it might be good for him in the long run. 40. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 11.05.2011 - 10:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad to see Michael McDowell get this chance. Wish he was in the Nationwide car too for more seat time, but I'm guessing it's a lot on his plate already. Best of luck to him! 41. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.05.2011 - 11:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) See ya in Phoenix, Shrubby. 42. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.05.2011 - 11:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright everyone, sing along with me. Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah hey-ey-ey Goodbye! 43. 18fan posted: 11.05.2011 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who do you guys think will be the cars to beat tomorrow? I have a feeling it could be an in-house Roush battle. 44. Sean posted: 11.05.2011 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This bothers me. While I agree that what Kyle did was a jerkass move, I HAVE to agree with 18Fan and Anonymous. We've seen a lot worse shit go unpunished. As people have already mentioned, this was basically the exact same thing Jeff Burton did to Jeff Gordon at the start of the , and he wasn't even penalized, because Burton has a false repetition as a "clean driver" (news flash: none of them are actually "clean"), while Kyle has a reputation as a "punk" (yes, he is punkier than many drivers, but I've seen pretty much every driver pull off bullshit moves and go unpunished). IF they are going to start punishing ALL (and I do mean ALL incidents like this), such as Rudd/J. Gordon at Charlotte in 1994, Newman/Montoya at Homestead in 2006, Gilliland/Montoya at Texas whatever year that was (yes, I know Montoya has been awfully aggressive himself, but there's still no excuse for what Newman and Gilliland did in those races), Burton/Gordon last year, Edwards/Keselowski at Atlanta last year, and let's not forget Stewart punting Matt Kenseth in the 2006 Daytona 500 (in what, to me, was a way more scary wreck than this), then I will support this move. But I think Kyle is being made an example here because of his image, while guys like Rudd, Newman, Gilliland, Edwards, Burton, and Stewart are considered "cleaner" (which is especially laughable about Rudd, Edwards, and Stewart) get off scot-free simply due to their manufactured images. I actually feel for Kyle here a bit. What he did was totally unjustified...but it was more justified to me than the Edwards, Burton, and Stewart incidents (for which they were barely punished...yes, Stewart was put at the end of the longest line, but that's hardly a penalty at all, especially at Daytona where you can gain 30 positions in 5 laps). When Harvick was punished in 2002 at Martinsville and R. Gordon was punished in 2007 at Montreal, in both of those cases, I think it was mainly because they were challenging NASCAR. Given "boys have at it", I didn't THINK that NASCAR cared about intentional wrecking much, and this penalty comes out of thin air (I expected a toothless probation like we've usually seen after these incidents). Once again, I'm all for it, if they start penalizing EVERYBODY, and I do mean everybody. It is my opinion that there's no such thing as a clean driver, and I want to see Jimmie Johnson or Tony Stewart or Dale, Jr. suspended for a race if they do something like that (this incident might not even make Tony Stewart's top ten). But you KNOW that is never going to happen because of their images and fan bases. 45. Sean posted: 11.05.2011 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oops, forgot to finish that clause, but you all know what I mean. at the start of the [fall Cup race at Texas last year], 46. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 12:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If what 18fan says is true, it's about time that NASCAR took action against thugish maneuvers like what happened last night, or what Brian Vickers did against Matt Kenseth at Martinsville, especially in light of the recent tragedies in racing. Now, I have nothing against paybacks, even intentional ones, but they have to be in the spirit of competition, much like what Jeff Gordon did to Kenseth at Chicago in 2006. Yes, that was a deliberate payback for Kenseth spinning Gordon at the end of the spring race at Bristol that year, but it was done in a legitimate competition situation. Now what Carl Edwards did to Brad Keselowski at Atlanta was baloney when he spun him out, though what actually happened was not at all what Edwards envisioned. On the other hand, the incident between those two at St. Louis later in the year, while deliberate, was also a legitimate competition situation, though turning him right instead of left was the wrong way to go about it. As I've said, there's a time and a place, as well as a way, for payback, and what happened last night falls into none of those categories. Finally glad to see that punk [Kyle Busch] get what's been coming to him since that 128 MPH speeding ticket. He should have, at least been sat down for one race then, if not outright fired by Joe Gibbs, who's personality is the exact opposite of Busch. Perhaps one reason he's keeping Joey Logano, despite Logano's lack of performance, is that he seems to actually be a good person, unlike Kyle Busch. 47. Sean posted: 11.05.2011 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "false repetition" I meant to say false reputation. I don't know why I'd misspeak like that, but I did. 48. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.05.2011 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, hopefully this makes Kyle think twice next time before causing a dangerous wreck like that. My only issue is, why didn't they tell Edwards to not run the following Cup race after Gateway last year? He basically did the same thing, only it wasn't under caution. 49. Schroeder51 posted: 11.05.2011 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone who is willing to compare Kyle Busch to Dale Earnhardt, please link me to a video of Earnhardt turning somebody under caution like Kyle Busch did. Then your claim will seem more valid. 50. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly, Schroeder51, or anyone else among the sport's champions for that matter. As I mentioned, what Earnhardt, Bobby Allison, or Cale Yarborough would do is to file the original incident in his brain, and save it for later when retaliating in a competitve situation is of actual use to him. 51. Rusty posted: 11.05.2011 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Part of the reason why Kyle was parked was because of his history. He has a long history of doing dumb things and getting into it with about every driver out there. NASCAR needed to show him there are consequences for his actions, and not just a meaningless fine and probation. Also, the only people who compare Kyle to Earnhardt are Kyle fanboys. Those two were nothing alike at all. Kyle reminds me more of Darrell Waltrip with running his mouth and pissing everyone off. 52. Schroeder51 posted: 11.05.2011 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about that-Trevor Bayne won a Nationwide race! 53. New 14&88 Fan posted: 11.05.2011 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Atta Boy Trevor Bayne!!! 54. 18fan posted: 11.05.2011 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about Bayne beating all those Cup guys. I think he's going to have a strong race tomorrow and now he's got a bunch of confidence. 55. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.05.2011 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Atta boy Trevor. The Bayne Train is rolling. :-) btw screw you Jack Roush. XD 56. Spen posted: 11.05.2011 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if McDowell will take advantage of his one oportunity to get a top-19 finish? But yay, Cjs and I were wrong about Bayne winning this year! 57. 00andJoe posted: 11.05.2011 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WTG Trevor!!! I wish I hadn't missed the race now... Anyway. #44: The thing is, Kyle has a pattern, whereas Burton did not. Remember what Kyle did to Elliott Sadler at Bristol? Also, rumour has it Kyle might well wind up getting parked by his team for the rest of the year... Also, Lally will be running the race. Guess his Tweet was misread and he was hinting at S&Ping insted of being pulled? 58. 18fan posted: 11.05.2011 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Gibbs sitting Kyle down for the rest of the year will send a message to Kyle that his actions will not be tolerated and it could very easily help Kyle turn the corner toward becoming a different person. Unfortunately for Gibbs, he's had hothead drivers since 1999. He's definitely experienced in dealing with drivers being disciplined for all that he went through with Tony Stewart. 59. jensenators posted: 11.05.2011 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i think if the caution hadnt of been out for almost half a lap, it wouldnt of been a big deal. the fact that joe gibbs isnt fighting the penalty should show that its a just penalty. 60. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.05.2011 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I've said before, the driver Kyle should be most compared to is Jeff Gordon. I say that because they have similar entries into Cup: both were extremely young when they began Cup full time and both were given top notch equipment. Dale came along in the era where no top car owner would put a 21 year old in their cars. Hell, he got his first full season in Cup the year he turned 28, and that was considered really young at the time. Compare that to today's way of discussing Brad K. He is thought of as the guy who had to earn and claw his way up the ladder through many years into top equipment (which is true). He isn't thought of as a "young gun". Yet he just turned 27 this year. Things have changed a lot. Kyle's career should be measured against Jeff's at the same age. And quite frankly, it isn't much of a comparison. Kyle turned 26 this year. Jeff turned 26 in 1997. While Kyle has 23 victories in 7 full seasons, no small feat, Jeff ended '97 with 29 wins in his 5th season, when they had less races per season. Most importantly, he won his 2nd Cup championship to go along with a heartbreaking runnerup at the same age with less seasons. He had just finished a mind bending 1997 that saw him win 10 races for the 2nd straight year, the Daytona 500, and the Winston Million on Labor Day. Or at least we THOUGHT it was mind bending at the time. 1998, the year he turned 27, would make that incredible year look tame. He won 13 races including an all time "Holy shit!" stretch of 7 of 9. He ended that season with 42 wins and 3 championships. Somehow, I just don't see Kyle matching those numbers by the end of next year. Obviously he can't match the championship numbers. But he has the ability and equipment to have matched Jeff's numbers at the same age. He hasn't. Oddly enough, much like Jeff the year he turned 26, Kyle had a chance to also win a million dollars on Labor Day weekend (or Tuesday as it turned out) in a Series sponsor promotion. Could he seize the moment and opportunity the way Jeff did in '97, beating a faster car? Of course not. He stunk. Fittingly enough, the person who won that race? Jeff Gordon, for his 85th career victory. To me, that spoke volumes. Jeff Gordon showed what freakishly talented youngsters can do in Cup with elite equipment and teams. He set the bar. Despite Kyle's good work, he has fallen way short. And this isn't even considering other factors. Kyle has been groomed to drive stock cars from the time he was young. Although he started Cup in '05, he was already racing Truck races (irony alert) in 2001. Jeff was groomed driving open wheel cars, quarter midgets and eventually sprints, with the goal of winning the Indy 500 in those cars. He didn't even sit in a stock car for the first time until October 1990 at the Buck Baker driving school at Rockingham, and that was really just intended to be for a fluff TV piece. Just 2 and 1/2 years later he would be starting Cup full time, having to resign himself to the fact he would never win at Indianapolis Motor Speedway (or so he thought). 61. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, Spen, but the amazing thing about Bayne's victory is that he stole a page right from the playbook on one David Pearson, the last driver until Bayne did it this year to win the Daytona 500 for the Wood Brothers. He sat back, as he usually does during the race, waiting for his time to pounce. but when that time came, with a couple of timely caution flags, boy did he. On his race winning move on that last restart, he basically outfoxed three of the Sprint Cup series' best, Clint Bowyer, Denny Hamlin, who should have won the championship last year, and Carl Edwards, who may win it this year. As he had done at Charlotte, Bayne pushed Edwards to the lead, but because they restarted on the outside this time, Bayne had room to move inside of Edwards, and after a lap and a half of side-by-side racing, Bayne pulled ahead to stay, though he had to fight off a hard charging Hamlin to take the win. Bayne may be on the verge of becoming one of those drivers that the others have to wonder whether, when he's running in the top five, but hasn't been on the lead during the race, he's been showing everything he has, or whether or not he's saving something for the end. And those are the scariest drivers to have to deal with at the end, because those that have been running up front don't know what a driver like that might have left. That used to irritate Bobby Allison to no end about Pearson. Darrell Waltrip had that same quality during most of his career, when he was a front runner, and Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, and Kevin Harvick [believe it or not] have that same quality. In other words, though it's still too early to tell, in an era of hard charging, no holds barred drivers such as Kyle Busch, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., Juan Montoya, and their kind, NASCAR may have a new "Fox" on their hands in Bayne. No wonder David Pearson, the original "Fox" likes the way he races. Bayne may be a fitting successor to Pearson's Wood Brothers' car after all, though that won't likely last long if Bayne has many more races like today. Now all he needs is full sponsorship to go with his cool head, and lord knows what he may have in store for the rest of his competitors, now that he's got the confidence of a winner by actually taking a win, rather than inheriting it, like he did at the Daytona 500. And 1995 Subaru WRX STi, I see that I wasn't the only one that noticed that Jack Roush was strangely absent from victory lane, at least during the broadcast of the race. Maybe he wasn't too happy about Bayne passing Edwards for the win. Yes, this was a good day for the good guys in NASCAR. The punk [Kyle Busch] gets suspended for at least the weekend, and Joe Gibbs, known as a respectful and respected person throughout the sports world, not just in NASCAR, might increase the punishment even more, and Trevor Bayne, who seems to be the opposite of Kyle Busch in every way, gets his first Nationwide Series win the same day. And in an ironic twist, Bayne's win comes at Texas Motor Speedway. See, Bayne's win in the Daytona 500 this year is a win I compare highly to Johnny Rutherford's 1974 Indianapolis 500 victory, which came while the sport was still stinging from the tragic race at Indy in 1973, and was now under the pressure of the energy crisis. But Rutherford, always one of the most popular racers in the sport, and he's just as popular now, came through for his first of three Indy wins in a period in which he was one of the four or five most dominant drivers across auto racing in America. Bayne's Daytona 500 win boosted the sport, because of what had happened the the 2010 Daytona 500 with the pothole, the wreck-marred Daytona 500 this year, setting records for cautions [16] and caution laps [61], not to mention bringing the Wood Brothers back to victory lane for the first time in nearly a decade, and in the Daytona 500, no less. Why is it such irony? Because Bayne's win today came in Rutherford's hometown of Fort Worth, Texas. Sometimes, things happen for a reason, and I don't think that Bayne scoring his first Nationwide Series win in Rutherford's hometown, considering what's happened the past week [the Hendrick plane crash II, Jeremy Mayfield's troubles resurfacing, and the Kyle Busch situation], is just a coincidence. 62. Cooper posted: 11.05.2011 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like Kyle Busch wrote a letter....Via Jeff Gluck on twitter... ---Open letter to you from @kylebusch: "The following is a letter written by Kyle Busch to his fans, sponsors, teammates, competitors and fellow members of the racing community. To all, I've had a lot of time today to sit and reflect, and try to put my thoughts into words as best I can. I want to sincerely apologize for my actions during Friday night's Truck Series race at Texas. I apologize to my fans, all my sponsors, everyone at Joe Gibbs Racing and Kyle Busch Motorsports. After talking with my team, it's great to have their support and encouragement to assure me that there are better days ahead. Even though this took place while driving for Kyle Busch Motorsports, I am sorry for how difficult this has been for everyone associated with Joe Gibbs Racing's Nationwide and Sprint Cup Series teams. I'd also like to apologize to Ron Hornaday Jr., and everyone associated with the No. 33 team in the Truck Series. I understand why I was taken out of the car for the rest of the weekend. NASCAR officials had to act, and I accept their punishment and take full responsibility for my actions. As a racecar driver, the hardest thing to do is to sit on the sidelines listening to cars on the track when you know you should be out there competing. For this, I have no one to blame but myself. Through a lot of support from the people around me, I feel like I've made a lot of strides this year, but this was certainly a step backward. Moving forward, I will do everything I possibly can to represent everyone involved in a positive manner. However, I know my long-term actions will have more of a bearing than anything I say right now. Sincerely, Kyle Busch--- 63. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Kyle Busch is more like A.J. Foyt [speaking of race car drivers from Texas] than he is like Jeff Gordon. But even Foyt would never have pulled a stunt like he did in Friday night's truck race. 64. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, you don't really expect us, as race fans, to believe Kyle Busch, because I don't for a second. 65. Cooper posted: 11.05.2011 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, it's more than I expected. Whenever another driver steps into your seat, it's going to be humbling experience. It proves that the world and NASCAR move on without you. To NASCAR, Kyle Busch is just 1 of the million people that make NASCAR happen. Kyle will learn that he is not bigger than anyone else. I might be gullible, but I truly believe Kyle will change because of it. He has no choice. He's out of options. As far as the race tomorrow, I'm going to say some prayers that it doesn't end up being a Roush parade. Because according to the qualifying and practice sheets it's going to be a long day. 66. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, NASCAR has proven through the years that it goes on with or without even the biggest stars. Even King Richard discovered this in 1965 when NASCAR went on despite Chrysler's boycott of the sport that year. It could be a Roush parade, but you never know what could happen when the race starts. A classic case in point was the 1978 Daytona 500, when it looked like a Petty-Pearson-Waltrip race, but on the 61st lap, Petty cut a tire on a piece of the track that was coming apart [the 2010 Daytona 50 wasn't the only race at Daytona in which this happened], and took himself, Pearson, and Waltrip out of the race. Then Benny Parsons cut a tire due to the track coming apart, taking himself out of contention for the win [he finished third], and A.J. Foyt flipped in the aftermath. Then, with the race seemingly in the hands of Buddy Baker, he cut a tire due to the deterorating track surface, and then had engine problems, handing the race to Bobby Allison. Allison was on the other end of fate in the 1981 Daytona 500 when he ran out of gas while leading late, then Richard Petty's crew chief Dale Inman snookered Petty's competition with his now-famous call to take on just fuel. So just when you think a sporting event is going to go a certain way, something frequently happens to change the entire course of the event. 67. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.05.2011 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not going to believe Baby Busch until the changes are noticeable and lasting. And the media needs to stop the "new" Baby Busch bull****. 68. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2011 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And 1995 Subaru WRX STi, I don't think anyone else should believe him, either. After all, he has done NOTHING to earn the trust of the fans. 69. Spen posted: 11.06.2011 - 4:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks to this penalty, as long as Hamlin has a good enough day, Shrub's streak of never being the top driver in points for his team will continue. 70. Ed Hinton swimsuit calender photographer posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Thanks to this penalty, as long as Hamlin has a good enough day, Shrub's streak of never being the top driver in points for his team will continue." Thats far from a certainty. even if Hamlin finishes 10th, that would only give him a 10 point lead over Kyle going into the last 2 races. 71. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.06.2011 - 12:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I compare them due their similar circumstances entering Cup. Personality wise, he compares to nobody over the age of 8 with the exception of Kevin Harvick. As far as the letter, it sounds way too coached. It would have been nicer to see him actually give a statement in person, even if it was reading a coached letter. This could be a great thing for him, or bad. The revisionist story of Kevin Harvick, KyBu's doppelganger, and his 2002 suspension is that it helped him turn a corner. That didn't really happen. Nearly 10 years later he is still getting involved in incidents every year. If anything, it made Kevin angrier. This has led to a career that, like Kyle's, has not lived up to its potential. The differeence is that Kyle is much more talented. I see him continuing his bad behavior like Harvick did, continuing to not live up to his potential. The only thing that could change that is the fact that Kyle has Joe Gibbs. Wheras Harvick had Al Davis wannabe Richard Childress egging him on, wanting to maintain the company's badass label, even though it was achieved with a legitimate badass behind the wheel, Kyle does have the Coqach. 72. 00andJoe posted: 11.06.2011 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The question, DSFF, is how much longer will Kyle have the Coach, with M&Ms now weighing in with their "concerns". (The night of the Truck race, it might be noted, somebody edited Landon Cassill's Wikipedia article to say he would be taking over the 18...) 73. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle's future and the future of M&M's at JGR depends on if M&M's wants to stay with JGR and just not with Kyle or if M&M's wants to leave JGR all together. 74. Spen posted: 11.06.2011 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dale came along in the era where no top car owner would put a 21 year old in their cars." Other than Kyle Petty, of course. But I guess being the boss's kid changes the rules a bit. However, while perhaps not a top car owner yet, Billy Hagan did hire 21 year-old Terry Labonte for his car in '78. And he promptly pulled off a fourth-place finish at Darlington, of all tracks. (And made a fan out of me in the process.) Ricky Rudd and Bill Elliott also started at a similar age, but both were driving for their dads, so it's not really a fair comparison. 75. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.06.2011 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I honestly can't believe people are bring Dale Earnhardt into this whole Baby Busch. This is sickening................period. 76. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.06.2011 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just read the M&M's statement. I'm not reading much into it, but I could certainly be wrong. As I mentioned at length on his driver's page, he is in a tenuious spot with his sponsors. I feel Mars felt obligated to say something, and they know Kyle can race the hell out of the car and give them TV time. But they have to be growing weary of embarrassment after embarrassment, with each one seemingly worse than the one before. It is certainly possible M&M's will say enough but I doubt it. But if they do bail, Kyle is screwed. 77. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Do you see parallels between Kyle and Ernie Irvan? I kind of do in terms of driving ability, style, and doing some dumb things on the racetrack. But one thing Kyle can do and Ernie certainly could do is drive the hell out of a race car. 78. OldSchoolNascarDude posted: 11.06.2011 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love seeing this tire wear today. It should make for great racing. 79. Mr X posted: 11.06.2011 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am proud of NASCAR for parking Kyle Busch for the rest of this weekend, NASCAR's lack of expressed authority has been pathetic in recent years, the sport has been running wild, and out of control down a less than optimal path. Almost everything has gone unpunished, the only justice has been a slap on the wrist, combined with a stern conversation in the NASCAR hauler about how your skating on thin ice until a certain date. Back when either Bill France Sr or Jr were at the helm of this ship, the sport was ruled with an iron fist, everyone answered to either of the Bills. Hopefully now NASCAR has started down the path they should've never left, they've turned Eric Cartman and demanded that YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAHHH! A driver being parked is long overdue, it should've happened multiple times in recent years, especially to Kyle, and it would've happened at least once already if Bill Jr were still in charge. It usually does a damn good job of straightening a driver out. It did at least a litte to Kevin and Robby. NASCAR's lack of expressed authority has also led to many other problems in my mind, including allowing the cost of racing to get as high as it has. NASCAR should've stepped in years ago and realized the amount of money that the big money teams are spending, namely RCR, RFR, HMS, and JGR. There are fewer competitive organizations then ever, and that number is getting smaller, scrounging up enough money to run competitive is almost impossible, and once you've done that there are only 8 spots available in the field which as cjs has documented is far too few. In a perfect world, I say nobody should be locked in, the fastest 43 make the race and everyone else goes home, however thats not going to happen. In the Cup and Nationwide series with the 43 car field, the top 25 should be locked in. In the Truck series with only a 36 truck field the top 20 will be just fine. Little over half the field should be locked in. Combined with the lack of usefull track time, and NASCAR being so leniant with the orders and politics of the multi-car teams, I honestly think that the big money teams and the big money sponsors have more control over what can and can't happen out on the track and in the garage area on a weekly basis then NASCAR does. Brian has been on his ass for years now never hanging overhead waiting to fall on someone acting out of line. This is hopefully the first step in NASCAR regaining the control of what happens on a weekly basis and it makes me wonder what is going to have to happen to either get Brian replaced, or get him off his ass. NASCAR needs to find a way of bringing the superteams back down to earth, slowing the corner speeds down, and taking downforce away. Here's some of my ideas. Make grille tape illegal, every car must run with the current size grille opening with no tape allowed at anytime. The engines will run cooler, allowing a little more power to be cranked from them increasing straightaway speeds, and the lack of front downforce will hamper corner speeds big time. Plus its a cost effective solution. Take away power steering completely, the drivers of yesteryear ran longer races just as fast as today with worse handling cars then todays drivers. Plus these cars still use a steering box, which was a steering mechanism originally designed to give the driver mechanical advantage because power steering was a luxury of the future. Plus it would send home the message to non-racing fans that these drivers are truly athletes and driving in circles can be physically demanding, far more then driving a street car on the street. It could be easily done with a slower steering box. This will never happen for numerous reasons, but I can dream, and that's to put these cars back on bias-ply tires, get them off the radials, the corner speeds will drop by probably about 15mph, radials out perform bias-plys in virtually every concievable way. NASCAR originally switched from bias-ply to radial tires in 1990. Restricted use of carbon fiber, to save weight these teams make different parts and pieces out of carbon fiber. Carbon fiber is an extremely strong and lightweight material, however its also extremely expensive. Other then the seat which in any car is a huge safety device, nothing else should be made out of carbon fiber. I've seen that the EGR cars are making an inner hood brace out carbon fiber when they could make it more easily, and at a fraction of the cost using the same sheetmetal they use to make the rest of the car. The A-pillar mirrors are made of carbon fiber, do they need to be? No. I've also seen that many teams are making the brake ducts out of carbon fiber, again NASCAR could easily restrict this saving teams money. The lack of usefull track time is also a huge problem, NASCAR banned testing at NASCAR sanctioned tracks not allowing any young drivers the necessary seat time they may need at a new track, NASCAR seemingly does their best to make sure that track conditions change as much as possible between practice and the race, Friday morning practice for a Saturday night race for example, Happy Hour used to be after the nationwide or truck race meaning unless it rained practice conditions are as close as possible to the race conditions. NASCAR has ensured that speed must be found on the chassis dyno, the notebook, and through simulation back at the shop, something the small teams don't have. I also really wonder where NASCAR would be today if 35 years ago in the late 1970's and early 1980's they had put a cap on multi-car teams, making them either completely illegal or restricting them to just 2 cars. On another note I still do have much respect for Mark Martin, however I am losing it at a rapid rate, it is now officially time for Mark to retire. He isn't competitive and he hasn't been getting it done in a HMS car, there's no way that a 53 year old Mark Martin combined with Michael Waltrip is going to produce better results then a 42 year old David Reutimann, who is a better driver then the 00 is a car. MWR is trading his only winning driver for a driver who is well over the hill, and has caused more crashes this year then in the rest of his career combined. Mark Martin did well enough to prove he deserved the 5 car in 2009, and even though I think a large portion of Marks struggles lie with Lance McGrew whom I don't think is a capeable CC, Mark isn't driving well, and he appears to be getting worse. The accident in the truck race was just that, an accident. The closing rate between Ron and Johnny Chapman was far too great for Ron to just stop like he would've had to, not to mention there's no way he can stop like that without getting into Kyle or Johnny. Kyle also said maybe Ron was a little to aggressive 15 laps in taking it 3 wide, well if you watch a replay Ron got to the corner before Kyle did, its only 15 laps in Kyle could've backed out too. After the initial incident Kyle's truck had virtually zero damage, he still could've won that race, and Ron only had minor damage. Even though I believe Kyle was never trying to wreck Ron he was just roughing him up a bit but things escalated, and either way given the damage done both were well over the line. I also don't believe Jeff Burton wrecked Jeff Gordon on purpose last year either, Jeff Burton has never purposely wrecked anyone, I don't think that he was going to start by wrecking Jeff Gordon under caution 16 years into his career. Both Jeff's climbed from their car's and started walking towards eachother. Burton knew he made a really stupid mistake, he didn't stay near his car, he walked towards Gordon, knowing Gordon would be mad, and Burton took his punishment, and Burton later admitted to making a stupid mistake multiple times. Sorry for the mega post here, lots of shit has happened this week. Excellent race so far. Hopefully it ends under daylight. 80. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.06.2011 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see a parallel between Kyle and Ernie Irvan too, at least in the way that they both go/went about trying to win races. The key difference is, Irvan was respectful to his competitors for the most part while Kyle has made countless enemies during his career. 81. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All the Gibbs cars are incredibly bad. 82. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trevor Bayne gets lapped in about 100 laps. I expected him to be much better than that today. 83. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.06.2011 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where's the debris? Hmm... 84. 12345Dude posted: 11.06.2011 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm going to re post my comment from the nationwide board, seeing the nationwide board is pretty much dead. And everyone posts on here. Read some great points by DSFF and CJS, there is a reason you guys are some of the best posters on here. :) Missed the truck race, so I can't comment on that. Other than Kyle Busch FINALLY got what he deserved. I missed this race. I thought I forgot to put my contacts in when I read "Trevor Bayne Wins At Texas". Does anyone know if nascar is going to change the rules (sadly they have to do it AGAIN) with cup drivers in the nationwide & truck series? They can't keep this going with 5 races won by "nationwide regulars" in the nationwide series. And I expected 1 win by a nationwide original. There lucky they got 5. There not going to keep it like this, are they? Why am I being so negative? Trevor Bayne won! He's a great person, and a great driver. This was just a bad year for him. Nascar's future looks like this (to me, guys not in the cup series). 1. Ricky Stenhouse Junior 2. Ty Dillion 3. David Mayhew (how has no one signed him yet?) 4. Justin Allgaier 5. Max Gresham 6. Trevor Bayne 7. Ryan Truex (the next Kyle Busch, when he starts doing good next year, I'm going to tell you guys some stories that are going to make you throw up) 8. Austin Dillion (his equipment makes him look really good in the trucks, not saying he doesn't have talent) 9. Parker Kligerman (remember how bad Brad raced in the #29 last year? This team is getting their feat out under them. This team will be a title contender next year.) 10. Nelson Piquet Junior Honorable mentions: Jacques Villenueve, Andrew Ranger, Brett Moffitt, Darren Wallace Junior. (his #1 fan) Also friends on mine, tell me I'm the most random person they know. I'm random about everything. That's why I'm going to mention this. I was thinking. I mean I really like Reed Sorenson. He's the Matt Kenseth of the nationwide series. His starts from 10 (compared to Justin Allgaier) were TWICE as good. Atleast. Turner Motersports getting rid of him, is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. I'm saying this right now, he will win atleast one Nationwide Championship. Anyway I was thinking, he has no change of getting in good equipment next year. Lets look at all the "cup teams" in the nationwide series & truck series, and their full time drivers. Roush Fenway Racing: Ricky Stenhouse Junior (Developmental Driver) Trevor Bayne (Developmental Driver) Joe Gibbs: Ryan Truex (Developmental Driver) Max Gresham (Developmental Driver) Hendrick: (Counting DEI & Turner) Danica Patrick (Developmental Driver) Aric Armirola (Developmental Driver) Justin Allgaier (Developmental Driver) Michael Waltrip: Patrick Pastrana (Developmental Driver) Richard Childress Racing: (counting 2012) Ty Dillion (Developmental Driver) Austin Dillion (Developmental Driver) Joey Coutler (Developmental Driver) Elliott Sadler (the only non "developmental driver" dose not plan to go back into the cup series) Cup teams in the Nationwide Series do not sign drivers like Reed Sorenson (drivers that don't plan to move back into the cup series aka non developmental driver). So what non cup teams are successful in the nationwide series? Dale Earnhardt Inc. (aka Hendrick Motersports) FILLED UP Rusty Wallace Racing FILLED UP Turner Motersports JUST GOT FIRED FROM Who is Reed Sorenson going to race for? Theres such a big gap in the "haves, and the have nots". It's not like it used to be. Who's he going to race for and be competitive with? The only team I can think of is Kenny Wallace's team. And Kenny isn't going anywhere. And I wouldn't call that team competitive (atleast for a title). 85. 12345Dude posted: 11.06.2011 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meant Reed Sorenson's 2010 stats, and JR Motersports, & Travis Pastrana. Man I need to re-read my stuff before I post it! 86. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.06.2011 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see a lot of on track parallels between Kyle and Ernie. Extremely talented, but both tried way too hard leading to lots of wins but lots of hard feelings. Of course Ernie had a better attitude and was forgiven quickly once he matured at Yates. What Ernie was doing in 1994 is what Kyle could be doing if he takes this chance to settle down. Having to mostly miss this one. Catching some during downtimes, but mostly watching the leaderboard online on my phone. 87. Bronco posted: 11.06.2011 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The RedBulldozer strikes again! 88. myothercarisanM535i posted: 11.06.2011 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How 'bout that 9 car! Cmon Marcos! 89. New 14&88 Fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson just spun off turn four. Looks like we can finally stick a fork in his bid for six. 90. Ryan posted: 11.06.2011 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #89 That's great for Nascar, too. I mean Knaus has cheated for all these years. They don't deserve it. 91. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon can get it done. and take the 3 point win bonus from Carl and Tony. 92. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was really pulling for Burton to win it, but sadly it wasn't in the cards. 93. New 14&88 Fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Win number four for Smoke this season. Jeff Burton tried to stretch it on fuel but came up five laps short. 94. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.06.2011 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I did it again G14! 95. Ryan posted: 11.06.2011 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This championship race is all of a sudden a pleasant surprise. Totally unexpected at the beginning of the Chase out of these two... Great stuff 96. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.06.2011 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So um, Carl is STILL going to win the championship by default? And for Jimmie Johnson, no #6, not this year anyway. 97. jr88fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My two least favorite drivers are pulling away from everyone else in the points. FML 98. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When Tony says you better be worried, that means you better be worried. 99. Mr X posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stat of the day from Andy Petree, if Tony Stewart scores two more top 5's in the last two races and wins the title it will still be the smallest number of top 5's for a champion since 1950. If we ever needed a sign that Brian France's chase meant nothing, there it is. Post #87 made me laugh. 100. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I were Edwards during these final two weeks of the season, I would just focus on keeping my head straight and not making any mistakes because that's what he's going to have to do to hold off Tony. Right now, the entire #14 team has momentum on their side, and that in itself goes a long way. After not scoring any wins during the regular season, Tony is now 4/8 in terms of winning cha$e races. We've seen this type of drive before from a certain blue and white car, although they never went winless during the regular season. 101. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kyle runs the last two races of the year we could have a great battle for 10th in points and we could see if Kyle could beat Denny in points. 102. potatosalad48 posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go Tony Stewart. He talked the talk and backed it up. Am I the only one who noticed that Carl has lost confidence these last few weeks? 103. Schroeder51 posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like Tony is on the cusp of his third championship. 104. 12345Dude posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another random note, Jimmie Johnson's 2012 cars are sick! There just as good as Kyle Busch's interstate batteries car. http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2012/48cup.htm 105. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne picks up his 100th career top 10 and AJ Allmendinger's 150th career Cup start results in his 25th career top 10. 106. Spen posted: 11.06.2011 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "David Mayhew (how has no one signed him yet?)" He's thirty years old and doesn't come with a sponsor. He'll end up as the next Tony Raines. "Justin Allgaier" Where? There won't be any openings at either Hendrick or Stewart-Haas for at least three, and probably five years. By the time there is one, Allgaier will have been dropped. "Max Gresham" Just like Coleman and DiBenedetto, I expect him to remain in development driver hell. He'll get pushed to the side once they're ready to move up Darrell Wallace. (Who's going to be a marketing dream.) "Trevor Bayne" Even with the win, he's basically out the door at Roush, and I don't expect him to be picked up by anyone notable. "Parker Kligerman" Has a future in Cup, but not a great one. He'll get in just around the time Dodge pulls out of NASCAR, leading to Penske's fall from relevence. "Nelson Piquet Junior" Future road ringer maybe. I'm not expecting much out of him. And where is he going to go, anyway? "Andrew Ranger" Ditto. Unfortunatly. "Brett Moffitt" Pushed aside once Pastrana is ready. The Dillon's and Stenhouse certainly have futures, but aside from them, only Buescher seems to have the necsesary connections to suceed. 107. Ryan posted: 11.06.2011 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Everyone is hardcore Tony right now, but Carl has had great success at the final two tracks over the years. 108. cjs3872 posted: 11.06.2011 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as Trevor Bayne getting lapped early in the race, does anyone else think he may have been instructed not to run as well in this race as he did at Charlotte, so as to not threaten Roush's other drivers, especially Matt Kenseth and Carl Edwards. After all, the way he ran at Charlotte, not to mention the momentum gained from his first Nationwide Series win yesterday, isn't it strange how uncompetitve he seemd to be early. And I still don't think Roush was very happy with win, because of how he got it, beating Carl Edwards the way he did, because Roush wanted Edwards to win that race yesterday, not Bayne. why else do you think it took so long before he got to victory lane, and him consoling Edwards first. If it was me, I might have been the first one to victory lane. By the way, speaking of Bayne, Texas in the Cup Series is becoming a "Joker's Wild" scenario, as each of his three races has resulted in the same finishing position, 17th. And NASCAR's Chase may blow up in their faces, again. This win was Tony Stewart's fourth in the Chase, yet he's STILL behind Carl Edwards, who hasn't even sniffed victory lane in the Chase, until today's race. Stewart could wind up winning half the races in the Chase, but still lose out to Edwards, who hasn't won since Stewart giftwrapped his only win of the season back at Las Vegas. Pardon me if I'm not mistaken, but wasn't NASCAR's effort behind the creation of the Chase to reward winning? Well, it certainly isn't doing that. At least, not yet. And speaking of Stewart's win, it's his 43rd, putting him one behind 1988 NASCAR champion Bill Elliott on the all-time list. I put up more stats when I get my own word page on the subject updated. 109. Scott B posted: 11.06.2011 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the record: Robby Gordon in his own #77 and T.J. Bell in the TRG #77 both withdrew after being on the initial entry list. McDowell finished 33rd, 3 laps down, subbing for the "parked" Kyle Busch after the meltdown in the truck race. Josh Wise does a start & park in McDowell's regular #66 ride. Brad Keselowski was the best finishing Dodge at 24th, 1 lap down. Decent day to Richard Petty Motorsports, with Dinger and Amrbose finishing 10th & 11th, respectively. Kasey Kahne was the top finishing Toyota in 3rd place with the Red Bull team; he has only two more races remaining with that team before moving to Hendrick. 110. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dinger and Ambrose were running a lot better than 10th and 11th(Ambrose was 3rd and Allmendiger 7th) before they both got caught out by all the alternative strategies. Definitely a strong day for RPM that could've been stronger. 111. Lordlowe posted: 11.06.2011 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well some one tell Cowardly Carl to stop driving like a pansy and go for the win in the final two races 112. Matthew Sullivan posted: 11.06.2011 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well some one tell Cowardly Carl to stop driving like a pansy and go for the win in the final two races" I think a lot of people would but they don't know how to speak horse. 113. cjs3872 posted: 11.06.2011 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lordlowe, he's going to have to drive harder, if he's not already, but Phoenix, due to the repaving, and more importantly, the reconfiguring, is going to throw a BIG wrench in the championship battle, I have a feeling. Now here's some career stats and all-time movement from today's race, and there wasn't very much movement, as far as that's concerned. -Greg Biffle made the most movement, moving into the top 50 all-time in top five finishes, moving into a tie for 50th with 1958 Indianapolis 500 pole sitter Dick Rathmann with 69 top five finishes. -Biffle also passed three-time NASCAR champion Lee Petty for 37th on the all-time lapleaders list, passing the 4,800 mark. [4,805 by my unofficial count] -2003 Cup champion Matt Kenseth moved into a tie with Harry Gant for 26th on the all-tim top ten list with his 208th top ten finish. -Kenseth also moved into 39th on the all-time starts list with his 434th, passing Jeremy Mayfield, whom Dale Earnhardt, Jr. tied for 40th with his 433rd career start. 114. cjs3872 posted: 11.06.2011 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, if not for the Chase, Edwards would already have this championship won, lock, stock, and barrel, with a full race lead over Jimmie Johnson with just two races remaining. so maybe the Chase is making this championship chase more interedting, but how a winless Edwards could have a lead over a four-time Chase winner in Stewart is still beyond me. But then again, Bill Elliott won four consecutive races early in the 1992 season, winning races 2-5, but still trailed Davey Allison by a significant margin, due to crashing in the Daytona 500, which Allison easily won, so this has been a point of contention for many years now [no pun intended], even for a small amount of races. Now, Stewart joins Kyle Busch [who may not even race any more this season, as that's yet to be determined] and Kevin Harvick as four-time winners this season. but if none of those three drivers win again this season, this would be the first season, except for NASCAR's first season, not to have a driver win at least five races in a single season. Now, if Edwards does go on to win the championship, which he frankly deserves due to his season-long consistency, he would join Darrell Waltrip [1985], Dale Earnhardt, Sr. [three times-1987, '90, '93], Rusty Wallace [1989], Jeff Gordon [three times-1995, '97, '01], and Jimmie Johnson [2006] as drivers to win the All-Star Race and the championship in the same year. High-powered company, indeed. 115. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, Curtis Turner led the series in 1950, NASCAR's second season, with 4 victories. 116. 18fan posted: 11.06.2011 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Kyle was still at the track and asked Joe Gibbs if he could sit on the pit box and he didn't just go back home after the decision was made. 117. bob posted: 11.06.2011 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #116 maybe busch spent the day on the pitbox saying his goodbyes to the team and thanking them for putting up with him for 3 1/2 years too long? 118. I Love Japan posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESOME that JJ is NOT winning the title. I respect the hell out of Jimmie, but he needed to lose tht title. Edwards vs Stewart. I hate Roush and Tony Stewart called me "buddy" when I met him at the age of 9. Who do you think I want to win lol? Great race. And mark my words, Kasey Kahne will have a MONSTER 2012. 119. Ed Hinton swimsuit calender photographer posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) post 111 It's not Carl, he just wasn't given the car to compete with Tony today. Point the finger at Bob Osborne most overrated crew chief in the garage 120. bob posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) in the pre-race show espn showed a poll they had on espn.com where over 25,000 people voted and 55% said that joe gibbs should fire kyle busch. anyone think that mars, inc. (m&m's parent company) executives weren't watching this race with VERY close eyes and paying attention to what the fans think? bye bye, busch. don't let the door, oh second thought, DO let the door hit you on the rear end of the way out. nascar just got good again! 121. Ed Hinton swimsuit calender photographer posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) post 106 when the economy gets better, I suspect Bayne we get a ride from a top team. I would imagine Chick-fil-a would be willing to put up a lot of money to sponsor him, as he fits their image and the demographic that is their customer base. 122. Randy posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony beat JJ at one of his best tracks last week at Martinsville. Today he beat Carl Edwards at his track (3 wins at Texas). One is a short flat track and the other fast high banked 1.5 mile oval. Two very different tracks, which had been dominated by the drivers who finished second to Tony. It has been an impressive display from Tony. 123. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm count my chickens before they are born but i'm going pose this question: would be more impressive: JJs 5 in a row /or/ Tony 3 Cups under 3 different systems. 124. Ryan posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd say Tony under 3 completely different systems 125. 00andJoe posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "when the economy gets better, I suspect Bayne we get a ride from a top team. I would imagine Chick-fil-a would be willing to put up a lot of money to sponsor him, as he fits their image and the demographic that is their customer base. " Goodness yes - that would be a match made in heaven. 126. LordLowe posted: 11.06.2011 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At post 112: Don't know what you mean but it would be interesting of someone tried to neigh like a horse at Carl LOL 127. hyperacti posted: 11.06.2011 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With the completion of this race, Tony Stewart has now completed exactly 10000 laps this year. Curiously, teammate Ryan Newman has completed exactly 9999 laps following this race. The driver with the most laps completed on the season right now is Juan Montoya, with 10030. Stewart and Newman are 2nd and 3rd on that list. 128. cjs3872 posted: 11.06.2011 - 11:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, thanks for correcting me. I knew the last time NASCAR didn't have a driver win at least five races was either 1949 or 1950, but I didn't know which year. I knew that no driver won more than twice in NASCAR's first season, which only had eight races, but I didn't know exactly how many races the winningest driver of 1950 won. And what I saw, when Kyle walked up to the pit box of the 18 team, Joe Gibbs never even looked Busch's way. Wonder if that's a sign of what Gibbs REALLY thinks of this situation with Kyle Busch? And 12345Dude, are you really saying thatr Ryan Truex may be as bad as Kyle Busch? I didn't even think that was even possible. 129. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.07.2011 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Both JJ's 5 straight titles and Tony's two titles (I'm not gonna jump to any conclusions and then look like a fool come Miami, so I'm just gonna count 2 for now) under different systems are both very impressive in themselves. If Tony pulls this year's title off, that will slide some more merit in his case but it's pretty tough for me to overlook 5 STRAIGHT TITLES. While this whole business about KyBusch is being mentioned, I'd like to point out just how thin of ice he is probably on right now with JGR. We all saw that, obviously, there never was a new, mature Kyle, but somebody wondered if this incident would open his eyes to his behavior and that he would straighten up. I seriously doubt it, considering Kevin Harvick was benched from the Martinsville Spring race in 2002 for spinning out Coy Gibbs in the Truck race the previous day, and he only carried a calmer attitude for about a year before reverting back. You gotta wonder, just how much longer is M&M's going to put up with the bad press Kyle is getting? I think Rusty Wallace hit it spot on before the race when he said that it would be a no-brainer if Kyle wasn't a good driver, but that Kyle is exactly the type of RACER people want to have driving for them. 130. Anonymous posted: 11.07.2011 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Please, let there be no more champions with 1 race win. 131. irony posted: 11.07.2011 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burton coulda had his 3rd straight top 10 if he didn't try that long shot strategy move. None the less, that team is turning things around. Can't really blame Keselowski for trying that same strategy even though it probably took him out of the title hunt. The #2 team lives and dies by the Hail Mary pass. Reading through early posts, do people think Burton wrecked Gordon intentionally last year? He might of, but he's certainly a guy who has earned the benefit of a doubt. 132. 18fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't catch the pre-race show, but I think ESPN missed another chance to talk about Kyle Busch making history. This time it was him being the first driver to have his actions in one series get him parked for a race in multiple other series in the same weekend. 133. Josh C posted: 11.07.2011 - 5:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Heres my thoughts instead of Kyle being parked yesterday they should have let him race, but banned every driver to one series. So instead of Kyle, Carl, and brad winning 30/35 nns races they couldn't even compete in them anymore. Punish drivers across the board cause there have been alot of bonehead paybacks lately. 134. Brother Bear posted: 11.07.2011 - 6:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've posted elsewhere that Kyle anything up to a six race suspension would probably be fair. If I had to make the call on punishment, I would have parked him for Phoenix and allowed him to race at Homestead. I'm probably too lenient, but I would like to leave scope for him to still loose more if he chose to appeal my sentence. :-) 135. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 8:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous [130], if that's how you feel, how would you like it if something happened to Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. in the final two Nationwide races and Elliott Sadler winds up winning the championship with NO wins, and possibly no finish better than THIRD? 136. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 11.07.2011 - 8:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I see that I wasn't the only one that noticed that Jack Roush was strangely absent from victory lane, at least during the broadcast of the race. Maybe he wasn't too happy about Bayne passing Edwards for the win." Dude, there are countless pictures of Jack Roush in victory lane on Saturday. Why do you constantly think that Jack has it out for Trevor? If that was the case, Trevor wouldn't be in the car! 137. bob posted: 11.07.2011 - 9:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) hey 18fan, harvick was parked from a martinsville cup race in 2002 for retaliating in a truck race, and robby gordon was parked from pocono in 2007 for his actions during the previous days montreal busch race. this is NOT the first time cross series penalties have occurred, but it is the first time it has affected a championship outcome. maybe this will be a wake up call for nascar. cup drivers should run no truck races, and any drivers in the top 20 in cup points can should run no nationwide races. so to sum up the only "history" cryle busch made this weekend was being the next in a long line of drivers to get a punishmenet a lot less severe then he deserves. 138. 18fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) bob, both those guys were only parked for one race, Kyle was the first driver to be parked from two races in a weekend due to an on track action. 139. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, The Truth, I saw them, but he still didn't look happy that it was Bayne he was celebrating with, instead of Edwards [he didn't even have the finger showing "one" pointing straight up]. I believe that he didn't want Bayne to win the way he did. Sure, he'd rather have him win over Denny Hamlin, but not by muscling his way past Carl Edwards to do it, since Edwards is his no. 1 guy in the Nationwide Series, with Ricky Stenhouse the no. 2 guy at Roush's Nationwide team. What I simply stated was that he was not seen in victory lane IN THE TELECAST. I also stated that he would probably be there later. What I was critical of was that he wasn't there as soon as he could have been, especially for a first-time win. And I still don't think, despite what you saw immediately after the race, that Roush is very happy that Bayne won the Daytona 500 over Edwards, either. And doesn't anyone else think it's strange how far off the 21 car was in the Cup race, considering how well Bayne had been running, not just in ythe Nationwide car, but also the 21 car at Charlotte. I think Bayne and his team may have been instructed not to run as well as they did at Charlotte, because they were too close to the Roush cars in that race to suit Roush's liking. remember that Bayne, unlike Roush's other drivers, like Edwards, Kenseth, Biffle, and Stenhouse, was not brought up by Roush, and no driver that I know of that Roush hasn't brought up himself in recent years has ever been successful there. 140. Scott B posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think this will make Cup owners take a long look at the provisions that let their drivers compete in other series the next time those contracts come around for renewal. The more hot-headed the driver is, the more reservations the owners (and sponsors) will have. I don't think an outright ban on drivers crossing over from series to series is even on NASCAR's radar at the present time, though. Even if a driver doesn't have an explosive temper, there is also a chance of being injured in a wreck while driving in a NNW or truck race, causing lost races in the Cup series. Racing may be safer than it ever was, but it's not something that can be completely ignored. 141. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for what a Tony Stewart championship this year would mean (hypothetically speaking for now of course, they have been stunningly inconsistent), there are a ton of layers here. Obviously winning 3 championships under 3 different systems would be huge, but to me there are other more interesting facts if this happens. First off, he would have won Cup championships for two different organizations. The list of people to do that: David Pearson, Dale Earnhardt, and Terry Labonte. And only Pearson and Earnhardt have won multiple championships for one team as well as a title with another team. Secondly for Tony to leave a proven juggernaut of JGR to buy into an existing mightily struggling organization and lead them to contender status, then a championship in just 3 years would be huge. That would move him into the Top 10 all time NASCAR drivers unquestionably and give him "certified living legend" status. This would also open up a whole new list of questions and "what if's". We will have to question JGR's decision to leave Chevy for Toyota. Everyone knew Tony was not happy about this due to his deep connections with GM. Shouldn't JGR have said "ok, we have a transcendent driver here in Tony and he doesn't like the direction we are taking one bit, shouldn't we not do this?". I know KyBu has lit up the regular season in those Camry's (19 wins in 4 seasons, all in the first 26 races) and Denny came within an epic collapse from winning last year's Cup in Toyotas, but KyBu and Denny, despite their undeniable talents, are not Tony Stewart. Also, if you offer the Home Depot a time machine with the ability to go back and join Tony at SHR in '09, how fast do they say yes? 0.000002 seconds or less? Also, Old Spice wins the "Worst Time To Leave A Long Time Business Relationship" Award hands down. But we also must discuss what a potential runner up for Carl would mean (again, hypothetically, he just seems like a person of destiny this year). Since 2005, he has run the full schedule in both Cup and NWide in each of those years. A second place points finish this year would be his SEVENTH runner up in that stretch over seven years. Let's have a look: 2005: Carl takes the NASCAR world by storm with his outstanding driving and genuine "aw shucks" guy next door personality (or so we thought). He ends up tied for 2nd in the final Cup points with Biffle. Technically, he is awarded 3rd place since Biff has more season wins. But he is still tied for 2nd and had more cha$e wins than Biff. I'm counting that as a runner up. 2006: Beginning a career theme, Carl follows up an oustanding Cup season with a bitterly disapointing effort, failing to win and missing the cha$e. In Busch, he finishes 2nd to fellow Cup driver in Cup equipment running Busch driver Kevin Harvick by a whopping 824 points. The only other Cup guys running the full Busch season are rookies Clint, Denny, JJ Yeley (who famously lost a late race duel in Kentucky to David Gilliland in a barely financed car), and Kyle "I Can't Points Race To Save My Life" Busch. 2007: Rebounds in Cup with 3 wins (but 5 less Top 10s than '06 oddly) and makes the cha$e only to flounder. He also breaks the ice and wins the Busch championship with the (soon to be broken in two weeks) record for worst average finish for a champ. He beats Cup rookie David Reutimann in MWR's shitboxes in a season where they entered the Cup Series and fell flat on their face, got busted with rocket fuel at Daytona, DNQed all over the place, and went $20 million in the hole. I'm guessing that affected the organization. The only other Cup driver full time in Busch that year? The immortal David Ragan. 2008: Double whammy! He wins 9 times in Cup only to be blitzed in the cha$e by JJ who wins his 3rd of 5 straight Cups. More ignonomously however, he loses the NWide title to Clint Bowyer who only wins one race which was rain shortened. The only other Cup guy running full time is, again, the immortal David Ragan. 2009: Shades of '06, he follows his outstanding Cup seasons with no wins. He makes the cha$e this time, but finishes 2nd to last. In NWide, he and Kyle "I Can't Points Race To Save My Life" are the only Cup guys running for the title. He still can't beat Kyle despite a typical late season swoon by Shrub. It's his 3rd NWide runner up in 4 seasons and second in a row. 2010: Doesn't win in Cup until the last two races and manages a Top 5 points finish. In NWide, the only other Cup guy running for the title is Brad Keselowski in a startup Penske team who is also running his first full Cup season. Although Brad finishes a dismal 25th in Cup points with a best finish of 10th twice, he still beats Carl by 445 points in NWide as Carl notches runnerup #4 in NWide, and his third in a row. If Harvick had run full time in Busch again in '07, then Carl would have been to finishing 2nd in Busch/NWide what JJ is to finishing 1st in Cup ('06, '07, '08, '09, '10). So if Tony beats Carl, he will have 4 Busch/NWide runnerups ('06, '08, '09, '10) and 3 in Cup ('05, '08, '11). Will we have to start calling him "Bridesmaid Carl", "Buffalo Bill Edwards", "Elgin Edwards" (in reference to NBA great Elgin Baylor who made 8 NBA Finals, losing every single one of them, usually to Russell's Celtics), or "Mr. 2nd Place"? Have we ever seen a championship race this late in the season where the leader has more to lose, and the 2nd place guy has more to gain? 142. Bronco posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) First race without Kyle Busch in it since Homestead 2004. Both he and his brother have now been suspended from Cup events, one by his team and one by NASCAR itself. To add insult to injury the #18 was off the pace all day long, and the #11 and #20 which scored top 5 finishes in last year's fall race had long and miserable days too. Dale Jr gets back to back top 10s for the first time since Charlotte-Kansas-Pocono in the spring. Back then it looked like he was on the verge of breaking through and winning, sadly he hasn't sniffed a win since Kansas. It looks like he's going to go winless for a third straight season and lead the fewest amount of laps in any full time season. However, it looks he will hang on to a top 10 points finish barring something disastrous in the next two weeks. I hope Carl does hang on and win this championship, not just because he's one of my favorites, but because he has been the best performer this year, closing in on good finishes even when he necessarily didn't deserve them. JJ`s miserable chase continues, this is the fourth straight slip up by that team in the past four races. How bad has it been? Even Dale Jr has finished ahead of Jimmie in 5/8 chases so far. This is the lowest in points he has ever been with 2 races remaining, making it his worst chase by far. He'll probably beat out Brad for fifth but that's it. I really wish all the Bayne conspiracy theories would stop. 143. Ed Hinton swimsuit calender photographer posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) post 141 it's got to be Bob Osborne who has a lot to gain or lose from this championship. The Chase is tailor made for Roush cars and Edwards driving ability with half the races made up of 1.5 mile tracks, plus a sixth race in Dover which has been a good Roush and Carl track. There is only one explanation for Edwards failure in the chase and it's Osborne. He should be fired if Carl doesn't win this title. 144. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2011 - 11:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would imagine Chick-fil-a would be willing to put up a lot of money to sponsor him, as he fits their image and the demographic that is their customer base." That is an excellent observation. They are a very Christian organization that doesn't open on Sunday's. Although I can't tell you how many times I've been hungry around noon time sitting around on a Sunday, got a hankering for Chick-Fil-A chicken tenders, then realized "Shit!", I respect them for that. And Trevor is the perfect "I'm a proud Christian, but I'm not gonna be up in your face about it". The question is this: Would Chick-Fil-A be willing to sponsor a car in a division that mostly competes on Sundays? Given that NASCAR is an openly Christian division offering up a public prayer before every race, I think so. "At least Kyle was still at the track and asked Joe Gibbs if he could sit on the pit box and he didn't just go back home after the decision was made." That was big of him. It looks like he really listens to the Coach which will be a huge saving grace in his future. Despite being built mentally in an identical fashion to Kevin Harvick, the Coach can help him right the ship. "anyone think that mars, inc. (m&m's parent company) executives weren't watching this race with VERY close eyes and paying attention to what the fans think?" That will be what decides Kyle's future. I'm sure the Coach will smooth things over, but they have to be fed up. Kyle is definitely a sponsor's nightmare. I think they won't bail out now, but I think he is out of chances. The question is how will this affect his driving? Let's face it, for the first 6 months of next season all eyes will be on Kyle with his every move being dissected. Every slip, every bit of the slightest contact he makes will be replayed and rehashed to no end. He won't even be able to fart in the car without having to answer 1,000,000 annoying questions. Can he handle that? Besides, those TRD motors are pieces of shit. It's gonna be a tough first few months for Shrub next year even if he comes back. 145. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2011 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Another random note, Jimmie Johnson's 2012 cars are sick! There just as good as Kyle Busch's interstate batteries car." Those racing stripes are cool. I really like the black Kobalt car. But I prefer the Interstate Batteries car driven by Bobby Labonte in his championship year over the current white one which is nice looking. For the hell of it, here are my Top 10 all time paint schemes. 1) The #27 Old Milwuakee Pontiac (1984). Just beautiful IMO. The red with the gold numbers and gold trim just pop. Plus those Grand Prixs were beautiful. 2) The #42 Mello Yello Pontiac (1991-1994) An amazing color scheme as the neon yellow, green, and red popped from the black background. I remember seeing this in person and not being able to look away. 3) The #12 Coca Cola Chevy (1973) I must have a thing for red and gold. An all time classic paint scheme and color combo. I prefer 1973 due to the particular Chevy model Bobby drove that year. 4) The #28 Gray Ghost (1979-80) Bad. Ass. Seeing old tapes and pictures of that big ol' car stalking the high banks of Daytona and Dega is awesome. Just wasn't the same when they downsized it in '81. 5) The #3 GM Goodwrench fastback Monte Carlo (1988) I prefer the one year they ran it with silver numbers and that cool as hell old Monte Carlo. 6) The 1974 STP Dodge Charger Awesome race car, and awesome color combo (that beautiful Petty Blue and the day glo STP red). I also love the solid Petty Blue Plymouths of the 60s, and his 1981 paint scheme, but chose to go with this one. 7) The #17 Ford Torino (1968-69) Another kick ass paint scheme with that cool Torino. This also brings up some other questions. Who was a cooler guy driving a Torino, David Pearson or Walt Kowalski? How did such an odd pairing, the cooler than cool Silver Fox and the gruff as hell Suitcase Jake Elder become such a successful pair? 8) The #2 Miller Genuine Draft Pontiac (1993) This car haunted my dreams as a kid as an Earnhardt fan, but that black and gold was kick ass, and it kicked ass. 9) The #28 Texaco Havoline Thunderbird (1987-88) Awesome scheme, awesome car model, awesome driver. I prefer this one over the 1991-97 version. 10) The #71 K&K Insurance Dodge Charger (1970-73) Simple yet effective. Love those old Chargers too. 146. BON GORDON posted: 11.07.2011 - 11:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Do you think that Kyle Busch will drive again this season or is he done for the year? I think so, I guess we will find out tomorrow. 147. bob posted: 11.07.2011 - 12:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #146 he could be done for his career. 148. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, my conspiracy theories are more Roush conspiracy theories than Bayne conspiracy theories. Remember that Roush has never treated all of his drivers fairly. Remember the Jeff Burton fiasco of 2003-'04? And that was a driver that won 17 times for Roush, including two Coca-Cola 600s and one Firecracker 400, and finished third in the points in 2000. Burton was the only driver to win for Roush in 2001, but when drivers like Matt Kenseth and Kurt Busch came into their own there, Burton was just an afterthought at Roush, as he chose not to sponsor his car fir 2004, similar to what he's considering doing with Kenseth next year, if the reports I hear are true. And that's just one example. I'm sure that if any other development driver were driving the 21 car, they might have been told not to run quite as strongly at Texas, as well, because the Wood Brothers' car was too close to the Roush cars in terms of performance at Charlotte than Roush could ever have imagined. Remember that Roush comes from, among other things, a road racing background, and in road racing, there's a defined driver pecking order, and in the Nationwide Series, Bayne is clearly at the bottom of the pecking order, which is why I don't think he was too happy with the way Bayne won that race. Of course, was happy to see him win, but not at the expense of Carl Edwards. especially since Bayne's car was, in effect, unsponsored, while Edwards had sponsorship from Fastenal. Even Roger Penske has had a defined driver pecking order from time to time, though he's of the opinion of wanting his drivers to win, no matter which one it is. It's just that different car owners have different philosphies on this kind of thing. Now, when Roush had his three competitve drivers [Edwards, Kenseth, and Biffle, who won that day] raced each other hard at Dover in 2008, it was a different situation, because all three were considered equals within the orgainzation. But usually, when you have a situation like that, the team's preferred driver ends up winning out, so Bayne's move on Edwards late in the Nationwide race was a shocking move to Edwards, beacuse he thought that Bayne would have been instructed NOT to make such a move, and to Roush, because he probably didn't think Bayne had the courage to make such a move. 149. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Bronco, the way Johnson's Chase is going, who's to say that either Jeff Gordon or [gasp] Dale Earnhardt, Jr., or both won't beat him out. And DSFF, Stewart will never reach "legend" status in my mind until he wins more of the big races. After all, he's never won the Daytona 500, Coca-Cola 600, or the Southern 500, never finishing higher than third in any of those races, and never finishing higher than fourth in any race he's run at Darlington. Other than his two Brickyard 400 wins, Stewart seems to me to shrink in the big races, especially late in them. His history says that. And he's even been sketchy in that event, other than the two times he's won it. In comparison, Johnson has won ALL the big ones, including the Coca-Cola 600 and Brickyard 400 three times each, and Jeff Gordon stands alone, as he's won all the big ones at least THREE times each, has four Brickyard 400s, and SIX Southern 500 wins. Even Kevin Harvick has a better record in the big races than Stewart does, having won all of them, except the Southern 500. Now the winners of three of the "big" ones this year [Bayne, Smith, and Menard] may never win any of those events again, and possibly never again in the Cup Series [of the three, Bayne is the one most lilely to succeed, but only if he can keep his Roush development ride]. So let's not call Stewart a "legend", even if he wins the championship this year, until he wins more big events. Once he does, then I'll move him closer to Johnson and Gordon among today's drivers. 150. bob posted: 11.07.2011 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i would definately consider stewart a legend if he wins his third nascar title this year. he turned haas racing into a team struggling to stay in the top 35 to a championship contending team with 2 cars in the chase in just 3 years. that's an amazing stat in itself. also, stewart also has many wins (not sure how many) in the indycar series and an indycar series championship. the fact that he has titles in two top motorsports series is an amazing feat. if he had starting the traditional nascar route, he would likely have a nationwide championship sometime in the 90's as well. didn't stewart also in the usac championship? point is, stewart is already a living legend. he runs the #14 to honor his hero a.j. foyt, who was very successful in indycar and nascar, but stewart has actually become a better, more successful driver than foyt imo, minus the indy 500 wins. 151. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, where's the classic Wood Brothers' paint scheme that was run from 1968-'82 on that list? You can NEVER have a legitimate list of great paint schemes without listing that one, perhaps, along with the Petty scheme that ran from 1972-about '85, which you did. In fact, the classic Richard Petty paint scheme was go good, that Pat Patrick ran it with Gordon Johncock in the first half of the 1980s, and Johncock ran it when he came out of retirement at Indy in 1987. And the Wood Brothers' paint scheme was so popular, that RahMoc ran it in 1983 when Neil Bonnett and Warner Hodgdon went there from the Wood Brothers, and when Hodgdon decided to go to Junior Johnson in 1984, Junior ran that scheme on BOTH of his cars that year. Actually, when Jon Wood drover for Roush's truck team, even Roush ran that paint scheme, and Dennis Setzer nearly won the trcuk race at Daytona in 2010 with that paint scheme. In fact, the car that has run for the Woods' most of the year, is a version of that paint scheme. Wonder what their paint scheme will be next year? Hopefully, they will go back to the original version of the classic Wood Brothers' paint scheme. Perhaps Eddie Wood said it best after Bayne's Daytona 500 win. The Wood Brothers' car should be a red and white car with gold numerals on the side and the no. 43 Petty car should be blue and red. 152. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bob, you forget that Foyt also won the Daytona 500, the 24 Hours of LeMans [in his only attempt], and the 24 Hours of Daytona [twice]. Other than his two Brickyard 400 wins, and his All-Star Race win in 2009, Stewart has not won the big ones, and until he does, don't EVER complare him to the likes of Foyt, Mario Andretti, Petty, Yarborough, B. Allison, Earnhardt, Gordon, and even Jimmie Johnson. Sure he's won many championships, but championships alone are not the only measuring stick of a driver's career, because even championships die out, but wins in the big events make a driver legendary. After all, Foyt is known, not for his 67 IndyCar wins and six championships, but rather his four Indy 500 wins and all the other marquee races he won in his career that I mentioned. 153. Bronco posted: 11.07.2011 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Burton was the only driver to win for Roush in 2001, but when drivers like Matt Kenseth and Kurt Busch came into their own there, Burton was just an afterthought at Roush, as he chose not to sponsor his car fir 2004, similar to what he's considering doing with Kenseth next year, if the reports I hear are true." What do you mean he CHOSE not to sponsor his car? Are you saying that Roush turned away sponsors in order to screw Burton, and that he's going to do the same with Kenseth next year? Wow. 154. bob posted: 11.07.2011 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #153 i think he means that he wanted burton out in 2004 and gave him bad cars on purpose. burton ran terrible in that car all year before he left, and in carl edwards first race at michigan he finished 10th. he also had several more good runs in 2004 before his breakout 2005 season. at the time i thought it was suspicious that a proven winner and contender like burton could not run well in a car that a rookie could get several good runs out of. 155. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2011 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as the speculation over Kyle's future, I posted about it at length on his driver's page. It is post #293 and I posted it almost 5 months ago in the midst of his first wave of PR nightmares (hooking Harvick at Darlington under caution, the 128 debacle, getting pounded by Richard Childress). Kind of ominous to read in retrospect. It ends with this: "So that brings me to my point: Kyle cannot continue like he has been going. He won't continue to get the support he needs from sponsors if he keeps putting himself in position to be involved in negative press every other week. He will either become a better person and start reaching his potential as a driver, which will make him legendary, or his career will already start circling the drain at age 26. Those are the only two options at this point. It is up to Kyle." Cjs, first of all, like I have always said, I don't put a great deal of stock into crown jewel wins. I respect your view on this, but I feel an overall look at their career needs to be looked at first. I think those races do more to overrate spotty drivers or one or two hit wonders who just happen to spot or hit at the right time (Michael Waltrip, Derrike Cope, Casey Mears, Jamie Mac) than they do to enhance great driver's careers. Even Kevin Harvick has had his career greatly overrated due to his wins in the big races. Case in point: Let's say Tony wins the Cup. He would have 3 championships, 43 wins, and 2 crown jewels (13 seasons). At the end of 1987, after completing his most dominant 2 year stretch of his career, Dale Earnhardt had 3 championships, 32 wins, and two crown jewels (the '86 Coke 600 and '87 Southern 500) (9 seasons). Not that different right? Dale hadn't won the Daytona 500 yet and wouldn't for another 11 years. His one Southern 500 win, even though he led half the laps, was rain shortened (oddly enough, the only shortned win of his 76). He also hadn't won the Winston 500 back when Winston sponsored the Series and thus it was a big deal. So only 2 crown jewel wins to his credit at the time, yet he never had been, nor would he ever be better. Although he still had 4 championships left to win, he never would again just overpower the field the way he did those two years. From 1979 through 1997, the Winston Cup would only be clinched before the final race 3 times in those 19 years. Two of those were '86 and '87 (done with TWO races still to go). The only other time? Dale in '94. To have all 3 instances of clinching early in NASCAR's most competitive stretch is a big reason why I have him as the best. So although Dale would go on to win 2 more Southern 500s ('89, '90), 2 more Coke 600s ('92 and '93), 4 Winston 500s ('90, '94, '99, '00, I'm counting the two Fall races in '99 and '00 since they were the ones sponsored by Winston which is what made them a big deal), a Brickyard 400 ('95), and, at long last, a Daytona 500 (during his least competitive stretch of his career), I don't think they are what really made his career. His steep win total combined with his record tying championship total are what made him the best in my opinion. Same thing with Tony. I can't discount him for not having more big race wins. Besides, he openly covets the Brickyard 400 the most. He has 7 short track wins, 7 road course wins, 6 wins on 1 milers, 15 wins on 1.5-2 milers, 4 on flat 2.5 milers, and 4 plate wins. That's what it is all about to me. 156. bob posted: 11.07.2011 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) crown jewel races don't make a career great. look at this years crown races. trevor bayne, regan smith, david ragan, paul menard. you can't tell me that anyone will consider their careers as "legendary" just because they won some big races. following that logic, derrike cope belongs in the hall of fame. 157. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2011 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, where's the classic Wood Brothers' paint scheme that was run from 1968-'82 on that list?" That is undeniably a classic scheme, and due to the success it had with Pearson, Cale, Foyt, and Neil, it says "success" as much as any scheme. But I was talking about schemes that I just think are awesome in and of themselves, regardless of success had by them (my top 2 schemes have 6 combined wins between them). I like the Wood Brothers scheme, it is a good color combination. It just didn't make my Top 10. It would probably be in my Top 15. But if I WERE making a list of schemes that say "success", it would probably be #1. Since most of Richard's success is split between the solid blue Plymouths and the blue and red STP cars, and Dale's is split between the blue and yellow Wrangler cars and the black Goodwrench car, it would have to be #1. Those cars with that scheme launched Cale into "Dominator" status before reaching "Legend" at Junior Johnson and those Holly Farms cars that would be in my Top 10 least favorite schemes. They took Pearson from "Legend" to "Must Be Included In Any Best Ever Discussion". They allowed the greatest Indy Car racer ever to show that he could be just as good in stock cars. Trust me, I have reverence for that scheme. 158. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, to clarify my point, I don't think Roush turned away sponsor from Burton in 2004, he just chose not to pursue them. He wanted to keep Burton in the 99 car until he felt that Carl Edwards was ready. As it happened, at the time that Roush wanted to put Edwards in the 99 car, Johnny Sauter had worn out his welcome at Richard Childress Racing, so Burton was put in the 30 car for the remainder of the season, and then moved to the 31 car when Robby Gordon also wore out his welcome at Childress. I just hope that with both Trevor Bayne and Ricky Stenhouse in the fold as development drivers that Roush isn't preparing to do the same thing with Kenseth, because Kenseth deserves better than that. After all, Kenseth delivered Roush his first championship, as well as his ONLY Daytona 500 win to date, and next year's Daytona 500 will be Roush's 25th. And my point about the marquee races is that, much like a tennis player or a golfer, you win one of those, you become known for life. Like I said, A.J. Foyt is known not for all his wins and championships, but for all the big races he won. Mario Andretti was already well reknowned even before winning the F1 championship in 1978. Why? Because he had wins in the Daytona 500, Indianapolis 500, and three wins in the 12 Hours of Sebring. Richard Petty is known just as much for his seven Daytona 500 wins as he is his 200 overall wins and seven championships. And of course, Bill Elliott, Dale Jarrett, David Pearson, Bobby Allison, and Cale Yarborough, who combined for nine championships and close to 350 wins, are known for their wins in NASCAR's biggest events, as well. Drivers like Dale Earnhardt, Sr. are the exception, not the rule. Earnhardt is known for the number of championships more than he is the wins in big races, but he eventually captured them all, something not even Yarborough, Elliott, or Jarrett can even claim, as each of those three had at least one significant conquest missing from their resumes. Jarrett never captured the Southern 500, while neither Yarborough or Elliott ever won the Coca-Cola 600. What I'm saying is that for Tony Stewart to be up there with the likes of Petty, Allison, Gordon, Earnhardt, Waltrip, Yarborough, and Pearson. To put Stewart in the highest tier of drivers, he has to win more of the big races, plain and simple. That's what holds Rusty Wallace back, in my view, and why he has yet to have even made it to the list of finalists for the Hall of Fame. Even the Hall of Fame voters acknowledge the importance of the big races, and Wallace only won one of them, the 1990 Coca-Cola 600. Bob, I agree with you that winning the big races alone doesn't make you great, as the big races are littered with odd winners. Nelson Stacy, who only won four times, won two of the three crown jewel races that existed when he drove. And Ward Burton only won five times, but has his name on the list of winners of two different crown jewel races. Two of Pete Hamilton's four wins came in crown jewels, while numerous drivers scored their only NASCAR win in a crown jewel race, though that particular list includes Mario Andretti, possibly the greatest driver of all-time. But it also includes the likes of the three that scored their first win in crown jewels this year, as well as Johnny Mantz, Casey Mears, as well others that didn't exactly have distinguished careers, which are too many to mention. But what winning the big races do is augment an already successful career, while making one that wins one early in his career a driver that can go to teams and say that he has a big victory on his resume. 159. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Donnie Allison also won with that paint scheme with the Wood Brothers. And others that drove that car included Swede Savage, who many felt might have been a great champion, and I think Dan Gurney also drove and won at Riverside with that paint scheme in the late 60s. And you're right, those Holly Farms cars in 1976-'77 may have been the ugliest paint scheme in history among primary paint jobs. As ugly as they say the Matador was, the Holly Farms car that ran those two years was an even uglier car. 160. Smiff_99 posted: 11.07.2011 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright, DSFF touched on a topic I LOOOVE to discuss. Paint schemes. Yeah, that's right........after all the weekly flame wars and debates and conspiracy theories, I emerge from my posting slumber to discuss paint schemes. So, here's my top 10, in no particular order. Bobby Allison's 1987 Miller American Buick (Classy and fast....even a bit patriotic) Dale Jarrett's 1997 Quality Care Thunderbird (The color scheme, the factory backing, the competitiveness that year....magic) Neil Bonnett'8 1988 Valvoline Grand Prix (I'm a big Bonnett fan AND I like any of the old Valvoline Schemes, especially on a 2x2 Grand Prix) Kyle Petty's 91-94 Mello Yello Grand Prix (Always loved it...) Tim Richmond's 1986 Folgers Monte Carlo (Red and Gold.....they just WORK, not to mention, it was stellar year for Tim that year) Mark Martin's 1991 Folgers Thunderbird (Always loved it...) Bill Elliott's 1988 Coors Thunderbird (The T-birds were BOSS in 87 and 88) Rusty Wallace's 91-93 MGD Grand Prix (Same reason as DSFF) Alan Kulwicki's 1992 Hooters Thunderbird (Fond memories, great, simplistic scheme.....and who doesn't love titties, wings and beer?) Richard Petty's 1969 Petty Blue Torino Talladega (Any of the King's schemes were kick-ass, but I'm a Ford man at heart.....naturally, the Talladega narrowly beat out the Superbird for this 10th and final spot. 161. Smiff_99 posted: 11.07.2011 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As you can tell, some of my favorite schemes are my 'faves' because of WHAT they were on at the time, too. 162. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2011 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As ugly as they say the Matador was, the Holly Farms car that ran those two years was an even uglier car." The Matador was an ugly model, the Holly Farms was an ugly scheme. It could have been on a Corvette or Mustang and it would still look like shit. I actually liked the paint scheme on the Matadors. Other notable bad schemes (primary schemes only): The UPS schemes with the exception of the solid brown one with gold numbers, the Chattanooga Chew car (Sorry David), the Levi Garrett car (I swear its not just because Geoff Bodine drove it, no really, I swear!), Benny Parsons' canary yellow #72 car (sorry BP), the #90 Chameleon Sunglasses Thunderbird, the Shell/Pennzoil cars from '07 to present, the #47 Race Hill Farms car (sorry Morgan), the #35 Quincy's car (sorry Alan), the #83 Wynn's K-Mart car, the 1995 #8 Raybestos car, and the lavender #22 Ford that could only be piloted by a badass like Fireball himself. I'll probably think of more, but those are the ones off my head. If we were doing special schemes, I could name about 50, beginning with Dale's cars from the 2000 May Charlotte races. 163. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2011 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As you can tell, some of my favorite schemes are my 'faves' because of WHAT they were on at the time, too." I tried to seperate that, but I'm sure I am a bit biased. For example, I think Geoff Bodine's Exide cars looked great. Now let's never discuss that again. I also really like this year's blue and gold combo on the #2 Miller car, but on the sides it looks like somebody pissing into a cup until you see the beer bottle. I also really like the #18 Doublemint scheme from this year and last year. It will really look good next year when Trevor Bayne is driving that car (him and Gibbs would be an excellent fit). 164. Scott B posted: 11.07.2011 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Shrub's additional penalties announced today, a $50,000 fine and probation for the rest of the season, which is a slap on the wrist considering there are only two races left. Exactly what I expected. Kyle's still going to have to smooth things over with his sponsors, no doubt, but it looks as though he'll be back behind the wheel of the #18 at Phoenix. Now if Michael McDowell had gone out and run the best race of his career (or if Gibbs had more time to line up a different substitute for Texas), things might have worked out differently. BTW, I love the idea of Landon Cassill in the #18 (it would let me enjoy M&M's again), but as far as I know he still has ties to the Hendrick organization. Also of note on the Phoenix entry list, Red Bull gives Cole Whitt his first Cup attempt in the #84, and Scott Riggs is listed in the Frank Stodard #23. For Whitt, unfortunately, it'll only be a going away present & audition opportunity. The #23 we might see more of next year, though, it would make sense for FAS to run a companion car to the #32 if possible. And, the Grant Enfinger/Sinica entry is expected to attempt Homestead, though I suspect they'll still have a lot of work to do to get up to speed. 165. Scott B posted: 11.07.2011 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Re color schemes, a few others I'd nominate: The classic Tide schemes used by Ricky Rudd and others. Easy to pick out in a crowd on the track, made an immediate mental connection to the product packaging. The Yellow Kodak cars of the Ernie Irvin era, for the same reason. The black & gold #13 Smokey Yunick prepped Chevelle... mostly because it looked awesome, and partly for the legend of how it was, umm, creatively engineered. ;) 166. 00andJoe posted: 11.07.2011 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Shrub's additional penalties announced today, a $50,000 fine and probation for the rest of the season, which is a slap on the wrist considering there are only two races left. Exactly what I expected. " I think it's the second part of that statment from NASCAR that tells the tale, though: if Kyle does -anything- that NASCAR considers "detrimental to stock car racing" (the old chestnut) or "disruptive to the event" (that's a new one for me), then he WILL be "indefinitly suspended". Not Might Be, WILL. ==== As for paint schemes, I'd have to say the black #28 Texaco Havoline car is my favourite of all time. The Coors Silver Bullets SABCO ran were pretty sweet, too. ==== Phoenix entry list is out. 46 cars: -Robby Gordon in the #7 -Scott Riggs in the #23 (This is NOT entered as a Stoddart car, but rather as Robert Richardson's team) -Bliss in the #32 -Blaney in the #35, Geoff Bodine in the #36 (will be at Homestead this way too) -#37 is TBA -Yeley in the #38, Kvapil in the #55 -Cole Whitt in the #84, a third Red Bull car. 167. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.07.2011 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since DSFF basically gave Carl a "full carrer scan" i'd might as well do Smoke (if i miss anything, someone fill me in but i'm going to be intentionally vigue) 1999: Sets the world on fire by winning 3 races, 2 poles and 4th in points (i think only Denny Hamlin has had a better rookie season) Was a championship threat from the word "go." 2000: Teammate BLab wins the Cup with Smoke wins 6 races but finishes 6th in points. 2001: No one (i repeat no one) was going to beat Jeff Gordon (even tho he did a 2002 Smoke like collapse but like 2002 held on to win, 3 wins, finished 2nd in points (too win one, you have to lose one) 2002: Like in i said for 2001, had a hard time keeping his cool but held off Mark Martin to win his first championship (had to finish 25th or better i think) 2003: 2nd worst year behond 2008 for Tony and finishes 7th in points (2 wins) 2004: finihsed 1 spot higher in points (almost won the 500 that year) 2005: no one (repeating) no one was going to beat Smoke and #20 team in 2005. He even got the #48 crew shaked outta their shoes, beat Edwards and The Biff by 35 points. Cup #2 for smoke 2006: sucks for pretty much the whole year, misses the chase, catchs fire and wins 3 chase races. (onlt time he has finished outside the top 10 in points.) 2007: Around this time Smoke and Zippy weren't getting along and it showed (even before 2008) 2008: is leaving JGR and doing it winless (yes he went winless, i don't care what stats page says WINLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) 2009: buys a sucky top 35 team and wins with it (with help) (6th in points) 2010: made the chase but wasn't very good. Yes i have high standards but look Smokes body of work, kinda hard not too have high standards. Also if Smoke wins his 3rd Cup (big if) the only dudes above him are: same fella with the last name of Earnhardt, some dude with the last name of Petty, someone named the "wounder boy" (or big daddy, pick one) and 5-time. also a big Stone Cold Steve Austin double Internaional #1 sign to the BCS, how is Alabama (and 1 lose team) #3 in the nation ahead of Stanford and Boise State (both undfeated)? What the hell? (might as well throw in some Macho Man Randy Savage) OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ok i'm done. :-P 168. New 14&88 Fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Shrub's additional penalties announced today, a $50,000 fine and probation for the rest of the season, which is a slap on the wrist considering there are only two races left. Exactly what I expected." Given as NASCAR has basically assured Kyle if he steps out of line again he WILL be given an indefinite suspension, this is as far from a slap on the wrist as you can get with NASCAR's probation. Hopefully Kyle uses this as motivation to work on controlling his temper and continue the climb up the ladder of maturity he'd begun at the beginning of the year. 169. Talon64 posted: 11.07.2011 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I hope Carl does hang on and win this championship, not just because he's one of my favorites, but because he has been the best performer this year, closing in on good finishes even when he necessarily didn't deserve them." There's pros and cons for both Tony and Carl winning the title: Carl PRO: Like Kevin Harvick last year, he's been the best from start to finish; the only driver with an average finish better than 10th and leads in top 5's and top 10's by a mile. He'd be another victim of the Chase, like Jeff Gordon in 2007 or Harvick in 2010, if he loses it. BTW I don't think Carl wins the title in 2008 either way. CON: Not only does he have just 1 win all season, but so far he's win-less in the Chase. Ironically, I think the only way he wins the title is if he wins at least one of the last 2 races, but if he does go on to a 1-win title (although maybe the best 1-win title ever, and not that bad considering nobody's got more than 4 right now) then he'll have beaten the guy who's won 4+ races in the Chase so all the talk would be about the broken system, taking credit away from Carl's title. Tony PRO: He's already won 4 of 8 Chase races, and he's got a legit shot at making it 6 of 10 IMO. It's a performance on par with what Jimmie's done the past 5 seasons and it'd put Tony in all-time-NASCAR-legend territory. CON: In August he didn't even think his team deserved to be in the Chase; he was 9th in points at the end of the regular season and without the Chase he'd be 5th in points right now but 90 out of the lead and all but mathematically eliminated from title contention. It wouldn't be much better than when Kurt won in 2004, and he only won 1 Chase race. Carl's pro is Tony's con; it'd be robbing the guy who's been the best from start to finish and who would have the title all but wrapped up right now without the CHase. I guess if NASCAR just wants people to talk about the Chase and the championship, no matter whether it's positive or negative, then good on them! But either of their championship seasons will have their criticisms. Kyle Busch has been fined $50k and put on probation for the rest of the year. NASCAR says he could be suspended if he does anything else like he did in the Truck race, but I'm not sure if that's during his probation or anytime in the future. I got home on Friday just after the Kyle/Hornaday incident happened, caught the replay and said out loud, "there's no way Kyle just did that to Ron." That was by far the most chickenshit thing Kyle's ever done, and I thought he should've been sat out for the remaining NNS and Truck races in 2012. Him getting sat out the entire weekend, including Cup, was a surprise but it was a much-deserved penalty. But that's pretty much all that Kyle needed to be sat out for. Like Harvick in 2002 at Martinsville, NASCAR's given him the message and hopefully Kyle will behave, at least for a while. Still, so much for New Kyle Busch v. 3.0. Hopefully v. 4.0, coming out 2012, will be an improvement over the previous models. 170. Lordlowe posted: 11.07.2011 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At Post 167: Sucks about what Happened to the Macho Man he was quite a character 171. Cooper posted: 11.07.2011 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since I've only been watching since 2001, I'll only list the paint schemes I got to watch.... #93 Dave Blaney---Love the Amoco Paint Scheme. Plus I loved the look of the Dodge Intrepids. #40-Sterling Marlin---Bias. Watching that silver bullet was awesome. Couldn't miss it. #6 Mark Martin-Inverted Viagra scheme. White with a tint of blue. Was nice considering the driver and sponsor. #7-All of Robby Gordon's schemes this year. Every one of them could be seen from a mile away. #9-Kasey Kahne---The Dodge schemes he ran with the white stripes. Made the car look like a Dodge Viper. #10-Johnny Benson, the Valvoline scheme that was purple and red. I think the product they advertised was Valvoline Max Life. Slick #48- Jimmie Johnson's Stars and Stripes, memorial day schemes. All of them. And my favorite, of all time was the #99 CITGO car circa 2001. That Red, White and Blue car would just shine in the night. My favorite Brad K scheme was the Samson Stone trucks he ran in 2005. That truck was nice. 172. Talon64 posted: 11.07.2011 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart earns his 43rd career Sprint Cup series victory, putting him 1 back of Bill Elliott for 15th all time. He ties Kevin Harvick and Kyle Busch for the series lead with 4 wins in 2012, the 5th time in 13 seasons he's won 4+ races (twice in his first 3 seasons with Stewart-Haas Racing). It's Tony's 2nd win at Texas, first since 2006. In both of his wins he's combined to lead 451 of 673 laps run (67%); he's led 276 laps total over his other 18 of 20 Texas starts (11 top 10's, 12.6 avg), and is now 2nd all time in laps led at Texas with 727 (Kenseth leads with 756). It's the 12th win for Stewart-Haas Racing, 10 of them coming with Tony Stewart. Carl Edwards tied Jimmie Johnson for the series lead with his 5th runner-up finish of 2011; he also picked up his series-leading 17th top 5 and 24th top 10 of the season. Carl's 3 wins at Texas were his only top 5's in his first 12 starts there, but he finished in the top 3 in both Texas races this season (scored 2nd most points). Kasey Kahne should really go to a casino and hit the slots over this next week; He's at 7 top 5's for the 3rd straight year. He also became the 66th driver to reach 100 career top 10's, a mark that Jamie McMurray and Clint Bowyer should reach next season. But there not be another 100-top-10 guy for a while, next best active driver is Joe Nemechek at 62 (his career's almost done), Brian Vickers at 57 (honestly, him too lol), then Martin Truex Jr. at 55 who'll probably need as many as 5 more seasons to get there at his recent rate. Anyways, it's Kahne's 4th top 5 and 5th top 10 in the last 6 races; he's scored the 3rd most points (284) of anyone in the Chase, and by far the most by a non-Chaser (Clint Bowyer ranks 8th at 256). It's just his 4th top 10 in 15 Texas starts (19.6 avg fin) but they're all top 5's. Matt Kenseth picks up his 4th top 5 in the last 6 races, and 10th top 5 at Texas (his 3rd most at any track) in 19 starts there (8.7 avg fin). This is the 6th time in 12 seasons in Cup that he's had at least 11 top 5's. Greg Biffle managed to avoid having more poles than top 5's in 2011 with his 3rd top 5 of the season (two of them coming at Texas). It's his 5th straight top 15 finish and 2nd top 5 in the last 7 races (1 in first 27 races of season). But it's his 7th straight top 10 at Texas (best of 3rd, 5 top 5's and a 5.7 avg fin); prior to that his average finish at Texas was 26.1 in his first 9 starts (1 win, 2 top 10's). Jeff Gordon reaches 17+ top 10's for a 6th consecutive season. However, since recording 20+ top 10's in 10 consecutive seasons (1995-2004), Jeff's only reached that mark twice in the last 7 years. It's just his 3rd top 10 in the Chase (8 races), but it's his 10th top 10 in 22 Texas starts (16.8 avg fin). Dale Earnhardt Jr. finishes 7th for a 2nd consecutive race, also just his 3rd top 10 in 8 Chase races this season. It's his 3rd top 10 in the last 4 Texas races and his 10th in 19 career starts (14.1 avg fin). Martin Truex Jr.'s 11 top 10's this year are his most since he also had 11 in 2008; but that year he finished 15th in points, while he currently sits 22nd in the 2011 standings. However, he ties his career-high with 3 straight top 10's, last time coming from the end of 2009 to the start of 2010. It's his 6th top 10 (his most at any track) in 13 Texas starts (16.9 avg fin). Clint Bowyer has 5 top 10's in 8 Chase races. Of his 7 top 10's at Texas (12 starts, 13.0 avg fin), they've all come in the last 9 races (10.8 avg fin). AJ Allmendinger sets a new career high with his 9th top 10 of the season. Allmendinger had 4 top 10's and a 17.1 avg fin in 19 races this season with Mike Shiplett as his CC, but in the 15 races since Greg Irwin jumped aboard he has 5 top 10's and a 15.5 avg fin. It's just his 2nd top 10 in 8 Texas starts (20.6 avg fin) but his 5th straight top 20 there (13.2 avg fin). Trevor Bayne has a 17.0 avg fin in 3 Texas starts. Why? Because he's finished 17th in all of his starts! 173. 18fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really liked Jeff Burton's Exide scheme from 1997-1999. I didn't really like the 1996 or the 2000 Exide scheme as much. The rainbow #24 paint scheme is another one that just screams success, as does the black Texaco #28(Except 1998-1999 when Kenny Irwin drove it). 174. 18fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but I'm not sure if that's during his probation or anytime in the future." It is for the rest of 2011, at least that is what it says in the NASCAR statement. 175. BON GORDON posted: 11.07.2011 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My Top Ten Favorite Paint Schemes: #1: Jeff Gordon's rainbow paint scheme (1992-2000)- Iconic paint job for the ages. #2: Dale Sr. Peter Max (2000)- It was so different and flashy. Loved it. #3: Richard Petty STP Red and Blue (1972-1992)- Arguably the greatest paint scheme ever. #4: Jeff Burton Exide (2000)- I know he had Exide before 2000 but in 2000 it was the best with Blue, White, and Purple with Lightning bolts. It was the final year with the partnership as well. #5: Dale Jarrett UPS flames (2001)- Loved it, best flame car in my opinion. #6: Tony Stewart Home Depot (1999-2008)- Loved the Orange paint job, a classic. #7: Jeff Gordon Flame scheme (2001-2008)- Sam Bass designed another great scheme for Jeff after the rainbow was done. #8: Mark Martin Valvoline (2000)- Like Burton and Exide i feel the the Best looking paint scheme for Valvoline was its last. Great paint scheme. #9: Matt Kenseth Dewalt Flames (2002)- What can i say i love flames. Another great paint scheme. He may have raced this another year as well, not sure. #10: Bobby Labonte Interstate Batteries (2000-2001)- Beautiful Green, Red, and, Black paint scheme. 176. 18fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DJ's 2001 flame scheme was cool. I bought a diecast version of that car a few months ago. 177. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, I'm going to repeat what I said in an earlier post. Any list of the best paint jobs that doesn't have the classic Wood Brothers' paint scheme that ram from 1968-'82 has no credibility. As I mentioned, that was such a popular piant sheme, that RahMoc and even Junior Johnson ran it when they were aligned with Neil Bonnett and Warner Hodgdon. In fact, Jack Roush even ran it for Jon Wood in the Truck Series and it also ran with Dennis Setzer in the Truck Series race at Daytona last year in which Setzer finished second. Your point about the Richard Petty STP paint scheme is right on, however. In fact, it was so good that Pat Patrick ran it on Gordon Johncock's IndyCar from 1981-'85 [which obviously included Johncock's nail-biting win in the '82 Indy 500], and Johncock ran that paint scheme again when he made his comeback in 1987. However, you are incorrect about how long that paint scheme was used. It was actually used through the years that Bobby Hamilton drove the car to it's brief return to glory, which would be 1997. Scott B and 18fan, who's to say that Joe Gibbs himself won't levy more penalties against Busch. After all, you don't soil the reputation of a man of Gibbs' stature. After all Gibbs is a legendary NFL Hall of Fame coach and car owner, not to mention one of the finest gentleman to grace professional sports in the last 30 years. I think Gibbs himself may at least match NASCAR's punishments given today, if not exceed them himself. And DSFF, as much as a lot of people would love to see it, I don't expect Trevor Bayne to drive that 18 car next year, or anytime soon, especially with Ford's commitment to him [notice I didn't say Roush]. If he were to be hired by Gibbs, JGR would probably, within a year's time, find out they had acquired something they lost when Tony Stewart left, and haven't gotten back since, and that's a leader among their drivers, since none of their current drivers fit that bill. And yes, he and Gibbs would be a perfect fit. A respectful driver driving the flagship car for one of the most respected car owners ever to grace the sport, not like the total punk that has driven it since 2008. And Talon64, as I mentioned in a previous post, Bayne's results at Texas are like a "Joker's Wild" situation. Can you imagine the late Jack Barry saying "17,17,17"? 178. BON GORDON posted: 11.07.2011 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would agree with you cjs3872. I forgot all about it. Didnt read your post. Cale Yarborough and David Pearson drove the famous 21 Purolatar Mercury. I would put that around 5th. I know that Bobby Hamilton drove the STP paint scheme in 1997 but i dunno i place paint schemes with drivers and when i think paint schemes and STP i think Richard Petty. My favorite was the 1972-1976 Dodge Charger with the STP paint Job. Ill change it to that. 179. jabber1990 posted: 11.07.2011 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) for some reason I liked Cole Trickles City Chevrolet car I think cause I like yellow and OD Green 180. BON GORDON posted: 11.07.2011 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Earnhardt's Top 5 paint schemes: #1 2000 Peter Max #2 1988-2001 Black GM Goodwrench #3 1995 Silver GM Goodwrench The Winston #4 2000 Taz #5 1984-1987 Wrangler Jeff Gordon's Top 10 paint schemes: #1 1992-2000 Rainbow #2 2001-2008 Flames #3 2000 The Winston reverse rainbow #4 2002 Dupont 200 years #5 2007 Pepsi Talladega (White Flames) #6 1997 Jurassic Park #7 2004 HMS 20th Anniv. #8 2006-2007 Dupont Reverse Flames All-Star Race #9 2004 Pepsi/Shard #10 2009 Retro Pepsi Challenger Darrell Waltrip Top 5 Paint Schemes #1 1981-1982 Mt. Dew #2 1987-1990 Tide #3 1984-1986 Budweiser #4 1983 Pepsi Challenger #5 1991-1995 Western Auto 181. BON GORDON posted: 11.07.2011 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *For the reverse flame All-Star car the years are 2005-2007. 182. Red posted: 11.07.2011 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The marquee events in NASCAR are NOT comparable to those in other sports. In tennis, the Grand Slams feature far deeper fields than normal tournaments, with a draw of 128 players compared to the standard 32 or 64. Also, Grand Slam matches are best-of-5 instead of best-of-3 like normal events. The Grand Slams in tennis really are the hardest tournaments to win, which is why they carry the most prestige and award the most prize money. In golf, the Majors feature the most elite fields in the world, as all the top players usually participate. In addition, the courses used for Majors are much more challenging than normal tournaments, making them the ultimate test of skill. Like tennis, the Majors in golf carry the most prestige because they are the most difficult to win. Now look at NASCAR's crown jewels. Do they feature the deepest fields in the sport? No, because all the top drivers participate in every race. The field at Kansas is virtually the same as the field in Daytona. Do they take place on the most challenging tracks? With the exception of the Southern 500, hell no. Charlotte is an aero-dependent cookie cutter where engineering matters more than driving. Indianapolis is an aero-dependent flat track where it's almost impossible to pass so pit strategy and fuel mileage often determine the winner. Daytona, especially since 2001, is a crapshoot plate race that anyone can win. If you want to count the spring race at Talladega, it's even more luck than Daytona (just look at the list of winners there). Again, with the exception of Darlington, NASCAR's crown jewels are most certainly NOT the hardest races to win, nor the best test of driver skill. I personally value a short track or road course win a whole lot more than a Daytona 500 win. All that being said, when evaluating a driver's career, I put zero stock in crown jewel events. To me, they're just another race. 183. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, along with Yarborough and Pearson, Dan Gurney [at Riverside], A.J. Foyt, Donnie Allison, and Neil Bonnett also drove the Wood Brothers' no. 21 car while it adorned in those colors. Swede Savage also drove for the Wood Brothers. Savage, who many felt would also have become a champion driver if not for the two horrible accidents he had in open-wheel cars, burns from the second one contributed to his death in 1973, which so traumatized Bobby Allison, that his wife Judy wanted no further part of him driving at Indy, as Allison was also in that race. [Bobby Allison got to know Savage when he drove for Holman-Moody in the late '60s.] Savage drove the no. 41 car for the Wood Brothers in the 1969 Daytona 500, and until Trevor Bayne, Savage was the youngest man ever to drive for the Wood Brothers. And BON GORDON, Earnhardt's Wrangler paint scheme actually dated back to 1981, though that combination spanned three teams, Rod Osterlund/Jim Stacy, Bud Moore, and Richard Childress. Ricky Rudd also drove the Wrangler car for Bud Moore in 1984, as both the Richard Childress no. 3 car and Bud Moore's no. 15 car adorned the Wrngler panit scheme. The only way to tell them apart, aside from the car number, was the car itself, as Rudd drove the more aerodynamic Fords for Moore, while Earnhardt drove the boxier Chevrolets for Childress. By the way, although the Pepsi Challenger paint scheme, which actually debuted as far I know, on Dan Gurney's IndyCar with Mike Mosley in 1981, was a flop with both Waltrip and Gordon. Waltrip had arguably the worst crash in his career in the 1983 Daytona 500 in it, which affected him the entire season, and some say the rest of his career, and Gordon's only race in those colors lasted all of nine laps, as he was involved in a huge crash, which he had a part in starting. And Waltrip's 1984 Budweiser paint scheme was not the same as the one he ran the following two years. The 1984 Bud paint scheme was actually the old Wood Brothers scheme, complete with the gold numbers on the side, while the paint scheme he ran the next two years was also used in the years that Terry Labonte had his second stint with Budweiser. [Labonte had also been sponsored by Budweiser in 1983.] And Earnhardt's most definable paint scheme was the black car with which he was defined. Actually, Richard Childress probably took note of how popular Danny Ongais was in IndyCar racing driving a black car [Ongais was the first successful circuit track racer I know of that drove a black car, which made it the most identifiable car on the track], and took that, along with the way Earnhardt drove, and figured that the black Goodwrench paint scheme was a perfect fit, which of course, it was. 184. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of paint schemes, DJ's Ford Quality Care/Ford Credit 96-00 red, white and blue scheme was bad to the bone. Although, his special Batman '98 fall Charlotte scheme was flat out ugly. "also a big Stone Cold Steve Austin double Internaional #1 sign to the BCS, how is Alabama (and 1 lose team) #3 in the nation ahead of Stanford and Boise State (both undfeated)? What the hell? (might as well throw in some Macho Man Randy Savage) OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHH YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" The BCS computers haven't caught up to the 2/3s human voters in placing Alabama behind Stanford. In the next two weeks, Stanford should pass Bama assuming Stanford wins out. 185. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really like Jeff's Drive To End Hunger car this year. The candy apple red with black and silver along with the traditional neon yellow 24, I like that combo. I like that better than any of his Dupont schemes, although when speaking of schemes that say "success" you have to mention the rainbow scheme from '93 thru '00. I've never personally liked race cars with too many colors. I didn't like the Peter Max car for Dale, I thought the tie dye McDonalds car that Matt Kenseth made his Winston Cup debut in was horrendous, and I didn't like Terry Labonte's 2000 scheme. Same for the Skittles car even though I always liked Ernie. Speaking of which, as somebody mentioned earlier, the #4 Kodak car is another one I always liked. The gold and red was a good combo. And the Tide car was also a classic and definitely stands out in person. Also, the silver Coors Light car with the bright red numbers was nice. 186. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Terry Labonte's Kellogg's Corn Flakes HMS 1994-1999 paint schemes were groovy and exhibited great product placement. The '99 Winston (a race he won, beating some rookie named Stewart) and 2000 season K-Sentials cars were good looking as well. 187. 18fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the Texaco-Havoline Davey Allison tribute car Ernie Irvan ran in a couple races in 1997 was really cool(I know he ran it in the fall Talladega, but I don't know what, if any, other races it ran in). Travis Carter's Smokin' Joe's cars and Winston cars with Jimmy Spencer were also good-looking. The Quality Care car debuted in either in the last race of 1993 or the 1994 Daytona 500 with Lake Speed(I forget which one) and, although it looked slightly different than it did when Jarrett made the scheme famous from 1996-2000, it always looked really good. 188. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now the UPS schemes have been hit or miss since 2001. The 01-02 scheme was basic, but overall decent, 03-04 lacked color, 05 had one of the better UPS schemes, 06-08 had too much white, 09-10 David Ragan stunk in brown cars, 11 much improved since 05. 189. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, the crown jewels generally do have the largest fields in the sport, especially the Daytona 500, but I think there's a way to make them deeper. What NASCAR should do is to find a way to get drivers from other disciplines to run in the Daytona 500 and Brickyard 400. They can do this by expanding the field to 50 cars for those races. The way the sport is today, the crown jewels, even the Daytona 500, have become just like any other race on the circuit. but you look at the driver lineups for the races in the 1970s and early '80s, you saw the most diverse fields in racing at that event. The field for the 1981 Daytona 500 may have been the most diverse in the history of the event. Along with the usual constellation of NASCAR stars, you had two drivers that combined for seven Indy 500 wins in the field, three-time Indy winner and reigning indyCar champion Johnny Rutherford, and A.J. Foyt, at the time, the only four-time Indy winner. You had Tim Richmond, then known as an IndyCar driver who was just making his career move to NASCAR. From the sports car world, you had Don Whittington, who teamed with his brother Bill, who was in the 1980 Daytona 500 along with brother Don, to win the 24 hours of LeMans in the late '70s. Also representing the sports car set was Elliott Forbes-Robinson, who was making his second Daytona 500 start, but the first of three striaght. Bill Elswick represented the powerboat racers, as Salt Walther had done in previous years. You also had Stan Barrett, the world land speed record holder at the time, who was dabbling in stock car racing. Because of the environment in racing today, you no longer see diverse field like this, even in the biggest races. Frankly, wouldn't it be nice if Ganassi fielded a car for Scott Dixon or Scott Pruett [he had once considered doing so for the late Dan Wheldon when Wheldon drove for him], or if Penske fielded a car for three-time Indy winner Helio Castroneves, or Will Power, or Ryan Briscoe [remember that Penske ran Mark Donohue in 1972 and Gary Bettenhause in 1974 when they ran IndyCars for him], or if other car owners gave other IndyCar drivers a shot at the Daytona 500 or the Brickyard 400 in the future, like Marco Andretti or Graham Rahal, for example. Remember how Rick Hendrick gave a shot to Al Unser, Jr. in 1993? It didn't work out, but at least he gave him a shot. One thing that I think could spice up the Daytona 500 or Brickyard 400 is for the fields for those two races to be expanded to let drivers from other disciplines of racing try to compete in those races. And maybe a bonus for any non-NASCAR driver if they won the race, much like what Randy Bernard tried at Las Vegas, which I think was a great idea, but that didn't work out either. Some say it even led to Dan Wheldon's death, but I think other factors, such as an oversized field, led to Wheldon's death. Now I don't think a 50-car field is oversized for Daytona [they used to start 50 cars for the Daytona 500] or Indy for the Brickyard 400, because I don't think 50 cars is too many for a NASCAR race on a 2.5 mile track. 190. 18fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't like the new UPS scheme that they have run a couple times here at the end of the season. There's just something about it that makes me not like it. 191. BON GORDON posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know cjs3872 but the #3 Wranagler car from 1984-1987 was my favorite and did look a little differnet from the 1981-1983. I agree with DaleSrFan Forever about Matt Kenseth's 1998 Tie Dye Paint Scheme. It was so ugly. A lot of people also seem to hate Jeff Gordon's 2002 Dupont 200 Years Paint Job but I loved it. It was so differnet and flashy which I like. I know im biased toward anything Jeff Gordon but I believe that overall he has the coolest paint schemes ever and so many of them are iconic like the rainbow, flames, jurassic park, chroma premier, pepsi, etc. 192. 18fan posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff's ChromaLusion paint scheme that he ran in the 1998 Winston that was different colors depending on what angle you looked at it was really cool. What made it better was how fast it was. 193. jabber1990 posted: 11.07.2011 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) here are a couple of cars i've actually desgined. for those of you who like flames (such as myself) you might like to check them out http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/jabber1990/IMG_0873.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/jabber1990/IMG_0884.jpg http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/jabber1990/IMG_0863.jpg this dont have flames but I like the colors on it http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/jabber1990/IMG_0868.jpg 194. BON GORDON posted: 11.07.2011 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah 18fan that one was nice too and shoulda won the 98 all-star race if not for running out of gas but anyway the 2001 bugs bunny car was similar also. That was also nice. 195. irony posted: 11.07.2011 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even Kyle can stay out of trouble for two more weeks. Just shows they never really wanted to do anything to him in the first place. The SPEED announcers sort of forced their hand. As did Hornaday who was threatening bodily harm if Kyle wasn't parked, and who is at the end of his career with nothing to lose. It's all good. Kyle may not get in trouble with NASCAR when he inevitably screws up next year, but he seems to be on thin ice with JGR. 196. 00andJoe posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to agree about the Kodak #4 and Tide #10 - those were distinctive, easily identifiable cars. I'll throw a joker into the deck, too: Lake Speed's #9 SPAM Ford. Solid blue, yellow letters - understated but easy to spot, simple and to the point. Iconic. Shame the way we have the Wheel of Sponsor for everybody these days with seemingly a different paint scheme every week. 197. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The BCS computers haven't caught up to the 2/3s human voters in placing Alabama behind Stanford. In the next two weeks, Stanford should pass Bama assuming Stanford wins out." Still no excuse to have them ahead of Stanford and BSU. They lost, go to the end of the line. "In golf, the Majors feature the most elite fields in the world, as all the top players usually participate. In addition, the courses used for Majors are much more challenging than normal tournaments, making them the ultimate test of skill. Like tennis, the Majors in golf carry the most prestige because they are the most difficult to win." The British open to me is the greatest test of golfer skill. While each major has its own challenge, Links golf is the ultimate test of control and skill (as well as smarts). 198. 18fan posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 00andJoe, the SPAM #9 was nice, unfortunately they couldn't get a sponsor in 1997 and then had the Cartoon Network car in 1998 that was, frankly, very ugly. The PowderPuff Girls pink car late in the season was pretty funny, but it still wasn't a great looking car. 199. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with DaleSrFanForever's sentiments on the crown jewel races. They are nice to have on your resume, but they shouldn't be regarded as higher or better status than say, a win at Sonoma, Watkins Glen, Darlington or Martinsville. I'm a lot more impressed with a driver's entire body of work overall than a few crown jewel wins. Perfect example: Rusty Wallace vs Dale Jarrett. DJ was very impressive in that #88 Quality Care car during RYR's peak, winning 2 Daytona 500's, 2 Brickyard 400's and a Coke 600 to go with his championship, but if you look at his career outside of 1996-2002, he looked like only your typical good driver who could get you a good finish most of the time. Rusty on the other hand, despite no Daytona 500's or Brickyards, remained competitive for the most part during his whole career. The only years since 1986 where he did not record a single digit finish in the point standings were 1991, 1992, 2003 and 2004. cjs3872, I don't think Roush would look to get rid of Kenseth, at least, I'd like to think he wouldn't be foolish enough to let him get away. But then again, you brought up the Jeff Burton situation, which was definitely fishy because of these factors: 1) He went from being top dog in the Roush camp ('00) to the bottom driver ('02) in just two years. 2) In 2004, the #99 team seemingly had trouble finding sponsors until Carl took the wheel in August, although he might just have been more marketable than Jeff. However... 3) The #99 car was struggling to finish well for the most part until Carl came on board. Jeff had some flashes of brilliance, but he was still very much capable of winning races, which he proved at RCR. AJ Allmendinger records his 9th top 10 finish of the year, setting a new career mark for himself as this is the most top 10's he's recorded in a single season. He's also on his way to setting his best average finish and points position if things go his way these next two races. 200. Anonymous posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) McDowell should have parked the 18 car, for all the good he did that team. He once again proves why he doesn't have or deserve a cup ride. 201. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of other sports, R.I.P. Joe Frazier. Now, irony, you say that Kyle Busch can stay out of trouble for two weeks. What makes you so sure? I'm not sure he can stay out of trouble for two days, especially at the race track, because trouble seems to have a way of finding him. And you know that guys like Kevin Harvick are going to try to bait him into doing something. And let's not forget what happened the last time the Cup guys were in Phoenix. Busch pulled an inexplicable move that caused a six-car wreck that included current points leader Carl Edwards, Harvick, and eventually Jeff Gordon, who oddly enough, won the race, was put into the wall by the damaged car of Edwards, who no doubt was relieved when gordon's car was capable of being competitve after it crashed. Drivers that have a score to settle with Busch may try to get even, knowing that Busch can't do anything about it. That is if Joe Gibbs doesn't park him first. 202. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are some of the paint schemes I have always liked: -Davey Allison's 1987 car -Ricky Rudd's #10 Tide car -Ernie Irvan's #36 Skittles car -Rusty Wallace's 2000 Harley Davidson car -Jeff Burton's 1996-1999 Exide Batteries car -Terry Labonte's Kellogg's Corn Flakes car -Bobby Labonte's #18 Interstate Batteries car from 2002 onwards -Jeff Gordon's DuPont scheme from 2009-present (I just think that black, along with the flames makes it badass) 203. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2011 - 1:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trust me, RCRandPenskeGuy, Roush would be a total idiot if he tried to get rid of Kenseth, who to me is still Roush's best overall driver, and he's got the credentials to prove it. Besides, with Trevor Bayne running with another team [Wood Brothers Racing, where he seems to be more comfortable anyway], Ricky Stenhouse not quite ready for Cup in my opinion, and having to cut back to three Cup teams, it would be completely silly for roush not to put full backing behind Kenseth. The only hole in this theory could be in roush tried to get Ford to sponsor the no. 17 car, instead of the no. 21 car. After all, he's already stolen sponsorship from the Wood Brothers once before [Citgo in 2000-'01], so what's to keep him from doing so again? And what makes the crown jewel races exactly that is the history, tradition, and prestige they represent. Not to mention their subtilty. The Daytona 500 is, of course, the biggest and richest race, as well as the season opener since 1982. The Coca-Cola 600 is the longest oval track race in the world, hence it's original name, the World 600. The Southern 500 is the oldest speedway race on the NASCAR circuit, as well as being the first race on a paved track back in 1950. The Southern 500 is also unique because of where it's held, at Darlington, the toughest track on the circuit. As Regan Smith, this year's winner said, "legends win here". The spring race at Talladega, once knwon as the Winston 500, is the fastest race on the circuit, held on the fastest track in tthe world. And the Brickyard 400, while not a great race, due to where it's held, a track orignially built as a test track for the cars of the era in which the track was built, the early part of the 20th century, is a crown jewel because of the prestige of that very same track, the oldest track on which NASCAR races on. The crown jewels may not be as significant as they once were, because very race is essentially the same now, as the same drivers now compete in every race, with no big names from other racing series competing in these races, not to mention the fact that the Chase has diluted them even more, since many of the top teams don't even care how they perform in these events, even the Daytona 500, the history they represent is what sets them apart, and always will set them apart. Frankly, if it weren't for the Chase, I don't think we'd see all these surprise winners we've been seeing in the sport's biggest events that last three or four years. 204. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2011 - 1:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, here's an oddity from the race at Texas this past Sunday. The top five finishing positions were taken by the drivers that started on the inside of the first five rows. Tony Stewart [inside row 3] won the race, Carl Edwards [inside row 4] finished second, Kasey Kahne [inside row 5] finished third, Matt Kenseth [inside row 2] finished fourth, and Greg Biffle, who sat on the pole, was fifth. Also, all six competitve full-time Fords finished inside the top 12. A.J. Allmendinger, Marcos Ambrose, and David Ragan finished 10th, 11th, and 12th repectively. Of course, there figure to be only five competitve Ford running the full circuit next year, along with just two Dodges. Wonder why Chevrolet can't possibly lose the manufacturer's title? It's because there are only seven competitve Fords and Dodges combined, and by my count, there will be only five competitve Toyotas next year running the full circuit. That means there will be only 12 competitve cars running the full circuit next year that will not be Chevrolets. 205. Rusty posted: 11.08.2011 - 1:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the first Sprint Cup race without Kyle Busch since the 2004 season finale at Homestead. It appears JGR won't take Kyle out of the car for the last two races like Roush did with Kurt. Though, I would gain respect for them if they did. Let him start his offseason early so he can think about things and try and come back in 2012 a better person and driver. I'm not sure the one race suspension will change him much personally, it really didn't do much to Harvick. Time will pass, he'll forget and take offense to someone else at some point. Dude is just a walking controversy magnet. 206. Mr X posted: 11.08.2011 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me its more how pretty the racecar is then the paint scheme, if the car is but ugly to begin with it can be damn hard to make it look pretty, however some beautiful cars have graced NASCAR's tracks over the years, and those are hard to make ugly, however the right paint scheme can really make them pop. My favourite cars:(in no particular order) 2000-2002 Chevolet Monte Carlo 1996-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix(it was still the best looking car on the circuit in 2003) Ford Thunderbirds Any car before 1990 Cotton Owens #6 Dodge in 1969 and 1970 driven by Charlie Glotzbach and Buddy Baker was I scheme I liked. Any car fielded by Smokey Yunick, which were all Black and Gold, which were my high schools colours and looked damn good. The Pepsi Challenger. DW's mountain dew scheme. Junior Johnson's #3 Impala, its almost impossible to make a 63 Impala ugly, especially one with the engine that led to the porcupine engine. Richard Petty's 73 Charger, I feel the red stripe across the roof was trying to replicate the wing of the Superbird and the Daytona, plus the perfect balance between Petty Blue and STP Red. The 1975 scheme used way too much STP Red IMO. Kevin Harvick's original 29 car he used at Rockingham was nice, a reverse scheme of the man in black. The Pennzoil Chevy in 2000-2002. I really liked Ken Schrader's M&M's Pontiacs. His 2001 scheme to me has been the best M&M's sponsored car to date. Ken Schrader looks like an old candy store salesman, and not in a creepy way. Ken suited the sponsorship more then say Kyle Busch. The paint scheme looked like a bag of M&M's, and I loved the yellow M&M on the left side of the car that was wearing a headset, we Kenny pulled down pitroad I expected the M&M's from the commercials to pit his car. Bobby Labonte's 1997-2001 Interstate Batteries Pontiac, this car was a fixture on the NASCAR circuit for years, and there's a reason why you still see this solid green car on every interstate battery sold. Tiny Lund's 1963 #21 Galaxie, the Wood Brothers paint scheme's mentioned above are beautiful, but I always liked this one aswell. There are plenty of others, but I'm tired and getting to work sucks now that we have snow on the ground here. 207. irony posted: 11.08.2011 - 2:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I could definitely see Harvick trying to bait Busch. He's cut from the same cloth as my aunt. If you tell my aunt that someone took her title as b***h of the hill, she gets mad and goes looking to re-claim her crown. Unfortunately for Kevin, Kyle's not letting go of that crown easily. 208. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.08.2011 - 2:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the history they represent is what sets them apart, and always will set them apart." This is true. The Daytona 500 definitely has a legendary reputation, as does the Indianapolis Motor Speedway (although I think stock cars shouldn't race there). Other races don't have that. "I could definitely see Harvick trying to bait Busch. He's cut from the same cloth as my aunt. If you tell my aunt that someone took her title as b***h of the hill, she gets mad and goes looking to re-claim her crown. Unfortunately for Kevin, Kyle's not letting go of that crown easily." And while they're trying to top one another in antics, drivers like Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson and Tony Stewart are cementing their place as NASCAR greats. 209. irony posted: 11.08.2011 - 3:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although Stewart cost himself the Chase in 2006 doing his best Kyle impersonation. Although I don't share the belief that many have that he would of won the championship had he made the Chase. He wouldn't of made the gamble that won him the race at Kansas had he needed to worry about points. Speaking of Stewart, I thought he was done when he started his own team. Wow, was I ever wrong. He's been a title contender 2 out of 2 seasons. Both he and Newman are so much stronger than they were their last years at Gibbs/Penske. 210. Spen posted: 11.08.2011 - 7:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm surprised that Tony's 2008 Subway car didn't make the worst all-time list. Anyway, I think I'll do a year-by-year favorite schemes rather than try to think of a few off-hand. 2011: Hardly any that I really like. Matt's Crown Royal scheme is pretty nice. I do kinda like Gordon's Drive to End Hunger car. Probably the first Gordon scheme I've liked, actually. And Burton's Caterpillar car is all right. That's about it, really. 2010: Steve Park's Richie Evans tribute car was pretty good. And I liked Jamie Mac's McDonald's car. 2009: This'll make everyone laugh, but I thought that David Stremme's unsponsored #12 was pretty effective. For once, solid black didn't look like an R&D car. Too bad the only time we saw it onscreen was when it wrecked. (Which was so often, we probably saw it more than some of the Chase cars!) 2008: David Ragan's AAA scheme was nice and eye-catching. And I rather liked Scott Riggs' State Water Heaters car. But the top one of the year for me was David Gilliland's "grape #38". 2007: Ricky Rudd's Snickers #88. The one time in history that a brown car looked good. That car looked plain *edible*. It actually made me want to buy a Snickers bar, and I don't really like Snickers. For special schemes, the pink car Bobby Labonte had in the fall Charlotte race was just... hot. No other word for it. And I loved Robby Gordon's Kansas car, where he was sponsored by Winegard, purely because I used to work there. 2006: Greg Biffle's Subway/National Guard colors. The best-looking military sponsored car. Honestly, that's the only one that pops out from that year. 2005: Bill Elliott's retro Coors #39 Dodge in the Shootout. That was awesome. Terry's retro #44 was nice, too. 2004: I liked Vickers' ditech scheme. Best look for the #25 since Folger's. And I loved Kenny Schrader's creamy Schwan's Dodge. I seem to remember Cope's Bennet Lane Winery #50 being pretty good, too. 2003: Dave Blaney's light yellow Jasper #77. A rare time when changing a 90's scheme was an improvment. Kyle Petty's Brawny car was rather nice too. 2002: Casey Atwood's Sirius Dodge was all right. I wasn't watching much this year, so I can't think of any more. 2001: Jimmy Spencer's K-mart car. And Stacy Compton's Kodiak car. Bobby Hamilton's Square-D car was pretty eye-catching too. 2000: Kenny Irwin's Bellsouth car. That car was just gorgeous. Dave Blaney's original Amaco Pontiac, before they changed the numbers, was quite nice. Johnny Benson's black Lycos scheme (not the Daytona 500 one), Kevin Lepage's FamilyClick car, and the orignal Viagra car (#27). Lots of good ones that year. Not to mention Bobby Labonte's Interstate Batteries Pontiac. (The last championship paint scheme I've liked.) 1999: This really could go in any year around this time, but I always liked Mike Skinner's Lowe's car. Much more than the schemes they've had the last ten years. Rick Mast's Woody Woodpecker Ford was a mess, but in a good way. The #58, driven by Hut Stricklin and Ricky Craven had a really nice purple and black scheme. And while it DNQ'd, Derrike Cope's Harrah's Las Vegas scheme was in my opinion, the best scheme Bud Moore ever had. 1998: Jeremy Mayfield's #12 Mobil One. Simple, effective. Ward Burton's MBNA Pontiac. Ernie Irvan's Skittles Pontiac (I apparently don't dislike rainbows, unless driven by Jeff Gordon.) Dick Trickle's Hellig-Myers car. The only car that looked better as a Taurus. I kinda liked Rich Bickle's Thorn Apple Valley Meats #98 as well. 1997: The year of the 1997 Ford Thunderbird, the last great-looking car in NASCAR history. It made *everything* look good. Paint-scheme wise, I'd call this the best year in NASCAR history. You've got Dale Jarrett's Quality-care Ford, Mark Martin's Valvoline Ford at it's best, Jeff Burton's awesome purple and black Ford, Terry Labonte's classic Kellog's scheme (and an excellent Frosted Flakes special at Michigan), Bill Elliott's original (and best) McDonald's scheme (and the Mac Tonight, possibly my favorite car of all time), Ted Musgrave's blue, red and yellow Primestar car at it's best, Bobby Hamilton still using the classic Petty colors, Ricky Rudd's Tide ride, Jimmy Spencer's Camel car, Geoff Bodine's QVC Ford, Sterling's Kodak car before they started messing with it, Brett Bodine's black and yellow Close Call Ford, Kenny Wallace's old Square-D #81, Hut Stricklin's Circuit City Ford, David Green's Caterpillar #96, (it seems I liked every Caterpiller car except Ward's. Odd.) heck, even Jeff Green's white Cartoon Network car. Oh and Robby Gordon's Coors car. I may be in the minority on this, but I liked Coors' mid-90's schemes much more than the silver bullet. Which is weird since Sterling is one of my favorite drivers. Oh, and Mike Wallace's Spam car. 1996: A lot of the ones from '97 still apply. For ones unique to this year, I liked Morgan Shepherd's #75. The best look for Remington Arms. Ricky Craven's Kodiak car looked better than Grissom's. And I liked Wally Dallenbach's Hayes Computers #15. Joe Nemechek's Burgar King #87 is probably the only 'flame' design I've ever liked. 1995: The old red and white Citgo car. I liked that scheme much better than the solid red they had with Mikey. Rick Mast had a nice green and black look for his Skoal #1 that year. And Kyle Petty's Coors Light Pontiac. Hoowee was that a pretty car. The #26 Quaker State car had a lighter green that year, and I prefered it to the color they'd had for the past few years. (Though that might just be because I liked Hut Striklin more than Brett Bodine.) Always liked Dave Marcis' Olive Garden car, too. I'll go further back tomorrow. I don't want to go over the post size limit. 211. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2011 - 10:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRandPenskeGuy, the other crown jewel races don't have a legendary reputation? The Southern 500 is run on the toughest track on the circuit, making it the toughest of all the 500-mile races to finish, much less win. The Coca-Cola 600 is the longest oval track race in the world, and it's that last 100 miles that sets it apart from all the rest of the big races, the Indianapolis 500 included. And while your argument towards the spring race at Talladega has a little more merit, the fact that the three fastest races in NASCAR history have occured in that event, as well as the most competitve races in the history of the sport have always occurred there, makes Talladega, as much as I'd hate to admit it, a crown jewel, as well. Frankly, I wouldn't mind it if NASCAR stopped racing at Talladega, because if evern there was an unsafe track, it would be Talladega. Bill France goofed when he built that track. The reason you have had so many surprise, and yes, fluke winners there is because that track is too easy to drive, and always has been, even when the engines were unrestricted and speeds surpassed 205 MPH, it was still too easy to drive. 212. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2011 - 10:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Spen, the classic Bud Moore paint scheme was, to me, the white no. 15 car they ran from 1972-'81. Every major team in that era had their trademark paint scheme, except for Junior Johnson [Cale Yarborough] and L.G. DeWitt [Benny Parsons]. We've touched on the classic Wood Brothers and Petty schemes, so I won't mention them, but other schemes you could always count on were the white no. 15 of Bud Moore, the mostly blue Truxmore paint scheme of Junie Donlavey's no. 90 car, the red cars that A.J. Foyt had [why they were called orange were beyond me, because they were as red as red can get], Hoss Ellington's maroon no. 1 car, which was equally as identifiable. With the teams going with revolving paint schemes and sponsors seemingly with every race, it's nice to remember the times when you could see a car and instantly know which one it was just by looking at it. 213. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2011 - 11:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "it's nice to remember the times when you could see a car and instantly know which one it was just by looking at it." Ain't that the truth. Hell, at Martinsville, the smallest track on the circuit with everything right in front of you, I'd have to search for a while to see where Carl was running due to my curiosity over the points, only to discover I'd passed right over him two or more times. Same with Matt and his black scheme from that day. "And while they're trying to top one another in antics, drivers like Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson and Tony Stewart are cementing their place as NASCAR greats." Exactly, and that is the shame of it. Kyle has the talent to be one of the all time greats like JJ, Gordon, and Smoke are already while STILL adding to their legends. Kevin doesn't quite have the talent of those 4, but he is better than his less than 2 wins per year average. And as many times as he has sniffed the Cup ('03, '06, '10, '11) he should have at least one title. He should have numbers closer to Kurt Busch (another ultra talented guy who has underachieved due to childish antics) who started in Cup the same year. Mid 20s win total and a title. This might sound dumb, but I also feel Tony hasn't lived up to his potential. I think he should be the one with 5 titles and 50+ wins (actually, more wins considering he started 3 years earlier). I've already posted at length about how I feel he gave the championship away in '06, and how I feel that altered the course of NASCAR history. Still not sure how this title fight will play out. Obviously the 14 has all the momentum, but something about Carl's year, especially in the cha$e, just screams "team of destiny" to me. Reminds me of Kenseth in '03 and KuBu in '04, or even Bobby Labonte in 2000. The way they are seemingly immune to bad luck despite constantly flirting with disaster while their competitors keep running into road block after road block, unable to mount a sustained charge. 214. jabber1990 posted: 11.08.2011 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought about this a few months ago and I was bored yesterday so I thought of it again would anyone like to see Jeremy Clarkson run a Nationwide race? i'm being serious. he would probably drive a Ford for some Start and Park team. hes marketable. Random Strangers in Syria will pose for pictures with him so hes a world-renowned celebrity. have him in a 3rd (or 4th) car in a start-and-park operation at Daytona in February, Bristol, Road America, or Montreal it would give NASCAR some ratings and would actually increase its fan-base "Jeremy Clarkson in the #69 HSBC/virgin mobile/Guinness/Allianz Ford Mustang" or run in a Truck event at Daytona, Martinsville, or Bristol or best-case scenario, run with Red Bull (in a one-race deal most likely) in the Daytona 500, as well as at Bristol, Martinsville or Infineon but if its in Infineon they should put Tanner Foust, and Sabine Smitz (spelling) in the other 2 cars. but if that happened the universe would catch on fire possibly 215. jabber1990 posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) he would be aggressive, but he wouldn't be homicidal and murderous 216. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2011 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Stewart wasn't even IN the Chase in 2006, as he was knocked out of it at Richmond, and Kasey Kahne, that season's winngest driver to date replaced him. He won three times during the Chase, but that was mainly because Stewart and Greg Zipadelli took gambles in the Chase that they wouldn't have, had they qualified for the Chase, such as riskier chassis setups and gambling on fuel mileage, and fuel mileage up until that point in his career may have been Stewart's biggest weakness. Sure Stewart would have been a factor had he made the Chase, but he wouldn't have won the championship anyway, because Johnson had the best cars, and I think Kenseth may have been the best driver that year. 217. 00andJoe posted: 11.08.2011 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan (#198) - True. Not to mention the Taurtis - er, Taurus - was some KIND of ugly, itself. 218. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.08.2011 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "RCRandPenskeGuy, the other crown jewel races don't have a legendary reputation?" They do, I just forgot to list the Coke 600 and Southern 500. I should have said, "races like". Talladega I haven't actually thought of as a crown jewel since NASCAR took away the Winston Million/No Bull 5 Bonus from that race. Right now I am hoping Tony can pull off the championship, but I'm certainly not going to dismiss Carl's chances just because Tony has momentum. The #99 team has had a 1996 Terry Labonte kind of season with their wildly consistent finishes and having a teammate with more wins. 219. BON GORDON posted: 11.08.2011 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I liked the Taurus especially the 2000-2005 one. I always thought the Thunderbird was way too boxy and by 1997 looked like an outdated model. Although a lot of the 1980s through mid-90s cars were boxy and ugly but I did like the 1984-1989 Monte Carlo and the Grand Prix like Richard Petty drove to bhis 200th win were nice as well. The Taurus was more rounded off and sleek, i felt anyway. 220. BON GORDON posted: 11.08.2011 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way Tony Stewart is already a legend. I don't care if he doesn't have a Daytona 500 win or a Coke 600 win. He probably will before his career is over. Look am I saying that these races aren't imptortant, No! Am I saying that it wouldn't add to his legacy if he won these races, No! He has two championships, 43 wins including what like 7 road-course races, 264 Top Tens, and avg. point finsh of 5th. Hes a legend. I put Tony in my Top 15 greatest ever and in my eyes is better than drivers like Bill Elliott, Terry Labonte, and Dale Jarrett. YES I SAID BILL ELLIOTT!!!!! 221. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2011 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think, had Tony snuck into the cha$e in '06, the way he kinda snuck in this year, he would have put on a similar blitz. Remember, he and Zippy had JJ and Chad on the ropes mentally. They melted down at Homestead '05 and damn near broke up in the off season. I think if Tony were in and breathing down their neck, they might have crumbled again. Losing a third straight heartbreaker ( '04, '05, and '06) might have broke the backs of the Johnson/Knaus combo for good. And that would have changed so much about the next 5 seasons it is mind bending. 222. Talon64 posted: 11.08.2011 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hes a legend. I put Tony in my Top 15 greatest ever and in my eyes is better than drivers like Bill Elliott, Terry Labonte, and Dale Jarrett. YES I SAID BILL ELLIOTT!!!!!" Well Tony's just one win back of Bill Elliott for 15th all time, so I don't think that's a stretch at all. If he wins the championship this year then IMO that'd put him in the top 10, or at the very least knocking on the door with some years left to get him there. And just off the top of my head, some of my favorite paint schemes were the Kasey Kahne #9 Mopar schemes they ran at Charlotte from 2004-07. http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2004/cup/lowes9.jpg http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2005/cup/9mopar-diecast.jpg http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2006/cup/9mopar-lms2.jpg http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2007/ncup/07-LMS-9.JPG The 2004/2005 scheme's my favorite of the bunch. I'll always remember when he dominated the October Charlotte race in 2004 and would've had the race in the bag for his 1st career win if he hadn't blown a right front tire. 223. jabber1990 posted: 11.08.2011 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like the ford Taurus' the fusions have very ugly noses that's the only reason I don't like them 224. Anonymous posted: 11.08.2011 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with Tony Stewart being better than Dale Jarrett. Dale Jarrett was a terrific driver in prime, but he was not an all around driver like Stewart. Jarrett was not that great on road courses. I think Yates engines made him better than he was at some tracks, but you just don't win at Darlington 3 times, Rockingham 2 times and Richmond 2 times without any pure talent. I also agree that Stewart is a better driver than Bill Elliott and Terry Labonte. Bill was not the all around driver as Tony Stewart despite the Bill has more majors than Stewart. Bill had talent outside of the 1 half, 2 mile tracks, super speedways. Bill only has two wins on a less than a mile tracks at time that had up to 5 race tracks with less than a mile at some point in Bill's cup career as a full time driver. Bill also doesn't match to Stewart in Road courses. Terry Labonte is too conservative to compare to Tony Stewart. He was a true points racer despite his talent. Terry was an excellent road racer and short track racer. Terry had had a couple major wins in road racing outside of Nascar that I think Stewart would have died for. Terry was a 24 hours of Daytona Champion and 12 Hours of Sebring champion in terms of the class or make was in for those two races. His racing style was made for endurance racing. 225. Anonymous posted: 11.08.2011 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What I really think hurts Tony Stewart for wins is a couple things. I agree that his maturity cost Tony a Daytona 500 win when and Kenseth go together. The other things that hurts Tony is the fact he only won 4 of his career cup win from February to end of May. That meant Stewart won 39 races from June to the end of the season for his entire cup career. 226. Anonymous posted: 11.08.2011 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What I meant to say was maturity cost Tony a Daytona 500 win when and Kenseth got together. 227. 18fan posted: 11.08.2011 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DJ also finished 2nd 6 times in an 8 race span at Rockingham. 228. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.08.2011 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I think, had Tony snuck into the cha$e in '06, the way he kinda snuck in this year, he would have put on a similar blitz. Remember, he and Zippy had JJ and Chad on the ropes mentally. They melted down at Homestead '05 and damn near broke up in the off season. I think if Tony were in and breathing down their neck, they might have crumbled again. Losing a third straight heartbreaker ( '04, '05, and '06) might have broke the backs of the Johnson/Knaus combo for good. And that would have changed so much about the next 5 seasons it is mind bending." Hm, you got me thinking: 2006: Matt "the brat" win his 2nd championship. 2007: The driver for 5 is complete (Jeff Gordon wins Cup #5). 2008: Mr. Edwards wins Cup #1. 2009: In reality Jimmie wins under either system, so i'll give him this one. 2010: Happy Harvick wins by a landslide. My oh my oh my, how life for all of us, would have been SOOOOOOOOOOOO different. lol 229. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2011 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous [224-226], Stewart is obviously a better driver than Dale Jarrett, despite Jarrett having won more big races than Stewart. Tony currently has 11 more wins [and he may eventually double Dale Jarrett's win total before his career is over], more championships, and is higher in tha all-time standings than Jarrett in every important category, except pole positions, and there about even there. But I don't see how you say that Stewart's incident with Matt Kenseth cost him the 2006 Daytona 500, as that was his second run-in in that race, after his incident with Jeff Gordon much earlier. After all, there was nearly half a race to go, and with that restrictor plate package, he who led with 20-25 laps to go almost always won the race, because you simply couldn't pass up front. As for Terry Labonte. Yes he was a yery conservative driver. In fact, that once cost him sponsorship while he was leading the point standings, but he was a great tough course driver. By that, I mean that he excelled at places like Darlington [where he got his first top 5 in very first start, as well as his first and last wins, which were more than a generation apart], Rockingham, and despite what he says, he was also very good at Pocono. It seemed that the tougher the conditions, the better Terry was, and that can certainly be said for Stewart. His conservativeness probably cost him at least one Daytona 500, and maybe as many as three or four others, as he was always a front runner, but never sealed the dela in the big races, except for his two Southern 500 wins. Bill Elliott was also in the conservative mold, as well. One reason that Elliott didn't fare well at Daytona and Talladega after restrictor plates were put on the cars, as well as not faring well on short tracks, was that he just wouldn't take a risk of potentially knocking out another competitor. He was always a bit gunshy about putting himself in potentially dangerous situations, so by being conservative on short tracks and plate races, he deprived himself chances to win. Just look at the number of times he finished second with cars as good or better than the winning cars before he got his first win. [The 1982 World 600 and the 1983 spring race at Rockingham are perfect examples of this.] The two young drivers who succeeded Elliott in the no. 9 car, as well as the Wood Brothers' 21 car seem to also fit this mold somewhat. The jury is still out on Trevor Bayne, but I believe the reason Kasey Kahne, like Bill Elliott, struggles on short tracks is his lack of willingness to take chances on the track. In fact, Darrell Waltrip once called him out on national television for this. But put him in a wide open situation, like on the 1.5 and 2 mile "cookie cutter" ovals, or at a place like Pocono, where Elliott was the first to win five times, and Kahne is as fast as anyone. That's why Kahne may light it up on the speedways with Hendrick, but will continue to struggle on the tracks where he's been struggling, such as the short tracks, as he is a spitting image of Elliott on the track. Just look at this year's Brickyard 400. Kahne dominated the race while in front, but once he got in traffic, he was a non-factor. This was partially due to the aero-push problem, but another part of it is Kahne's unwillingness to be aggressive on the track, as others, like Jeff Gordon and Matt Kenseth didn't fare all that badly in traffic. 230. I Love Japan posted: 11.08.2011 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Hey DSFF can you grade my review of Brian Vickers career on his driver page lol? Plz and thanks. I wanna hear your opinion, cause I have a trenendous amount of respect for you bro. As for terrible paint schemes- Jeff Burton's Citgo scheme from 2001-2003. I think it was terrible personally. BV's schemes at Hendrick were terrible as well. 231. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.09.2011 - 1:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) ^ LOL, I have to agree with you on Vickers. His 2004 and 2005 scheme was just so tacky. I liked the 2006 one better. I really think Tony might have won the 2006 championship had he made the Cha$e in the first place (which he missed due to throwing away a top 5 trying to wreck KyBusch for no reason at Vegas). Once the final 10 races were underway, he lit it up much like he has this year. Speaking of which, one thing I will be interested to see is whether Carl keeps cool and wins the title or folds under the pressure and Tony's stare-down. 232. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2011 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only problem I had with Jeff Burton's Citgo paint schemes was the fact that he was sponsored by Citgo, which Roush stole from the Wood Brothers in 2001. That's why I would be concerned if I were the Wood Brothers if they start to run like they did at Charlotte on a more consistent basis, espcially considering that Roush's 17 car is without sponsorship for next year. Who's to sat that Roush might steal the Ford sponsorship from the Wood Brothers like he did the Citgo sponsorship a decade ago, or like Robert Yates stole the Ford sponsorship from Bud Moore in 1996 for his second car, which led to the eventual demise of Bud Moore's team. Remember that Roush was very instrumental in the demise of Yates' team, as well as stealing sponsorship from the Wood Brothers, and not exactly giving Richard Petty's team any assistance, since if Carl Edwards does win the championship this year, he and Roush will have Richard Petty's to thank, at least somewhat, since the setups that Roush has been using for more than a year were, in effect, given to them by Petty's team when Kasey Kahne and Kenny Francis were there. So I wouldn't put anything pst Roush, where sponsor stealing is concerned, as well as helping to put other Ford teams out of business. 233. 00andJoe posted: 11.09.2011 - 2:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing I do have to say, is that as much as I don't like Jimmie Johnson, that 2012 car of his is Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. (Which is to say: good.) 234. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.09.2011 - 5:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looking at how strong Jeff ran in this one, is it possible Gordo and crew are preparing to wipe the floor with everyone at Homestead finally; they seem to be building the 1.5 program up. Consider after Atlanta: eh at Chicago; decent at Kansas; strong at Charlotte; looked like a win contender around the lap 200 mark at Texas. Is it possible next in the sequence is deliver a thrashing in Miami and put the Heat on drivers about the very real possibility of Jeff winning at Kentucky and having a win at all 23 tracks (get it, Miami Heat, haha). Imagine if Jeff had all 23 tracks bagged. Plus, unlike most guys with wins at lots of tracks, Jeff pretty much has solid wins everywhere (except maybe Chicago, let me know if I missed any others). 235. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2011 - 8:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I don't seriously believe that Jeff [Gordon] will be much of a factor at Homestead. When he was running as strong as he was prior to the Chase, it may just have been a case of most of his key competition running their weaker cars and setups, so as to not show what they really had until the Chase came, which made gordon look stronger than he really was, especially on the intermediates. Now that everyone is running pretty much their best stuff, you find out where the no. 24 really is, which is a sixth to tenth place car on most tracks, which is where they were most of the first half of the season. When other teams started experimenting with setups, Gordon's team, which couldn't afford to do so, since they sat as low as 17th in points, I believe began to run better. If the other top teams hadn't experimented with setups, it's my belief that Gordon might only have the one win at Phoenix earlier this season. If Gordon gets to victory lane for that 86th win that would truly put him third all-time before this season's over, it would most likely be at Phoenix, not Homestead, especially given Alan Gustavson's track record there. But even if Gordon contends at Phoenix, I doubt Gustavson's judgement if it comes down to pit strategy, since that is his major weakness. 236. BON GORDON posted: 11.09.2011 - 9:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whose to say Gordons team wasnt experimenting as well. They were so low in points and struggling so bad that they couldve tried something new. And whose to say everyone but Gordon was testing. While I think some were testing like you said Gotdon is not that bad this year and if Gordon will run strong it could be the last two races. He doesnt have much to lose unlike Stewart and Edwards. Gordon hasnt been bad this year. He has been hit or miss at 1.5 tracks but heneeds to qualify better and get track position and he will run stronger. He will be fine. 237. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2011 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, I didn't say everyone but Gordon was testing. What I said was that everyone that knew they would be in the Chase were testing in the middle third of the season in preparation for the Chase, as they always do. And those were the races in which Gordon was the strongest, except for Phoenix. Gordon has had some good runs in the Chase, but now that the other top teams knew what they had, as well as knew what they couldn't do, the true strength of Gordon's team was revealed when the Chase started, as was the case with every team. As for your assessment that Gordon needs to pick it up in qualifying. The truth about that is that Hendrick Motorsports, as a group, has been slow in qualifying all year long, and the fact that qualifying positions were tied to practice has had quite a bit to do with that, because Hendrick as well as several other teams often were sandbagging in practice, in order to get a better qualifying spot for quite a number of the races, and when Gordon was strong in practice, it actually worked against him, because of all the sandbagging that was going on. I never liked the idea of qualifying positions being tied to practice speeds, because of how that could be manipulated, especially in Cup with the number of Saturday morning qualifying sessions. Remember, the slower you are in practice for a race inwhich there's a Saturday morning qualifying session, the better a qualifying position you're going to have. I preferred the qualifying draw, because that, in no way, could be maniuplated. If NASCAR goes back to that, which they won't do for some time, if ever, you'll see who has the best stuff right from the beginning, which is how it should be, instead of teams intentionally holding back to get a good qualifying spot. 238. BON GORDON posted: 11.09.2011 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Well ill tell you one thing Gordons team is around a fifth place points team this year. He deserves something better than an 8th place points finish. Bad luck at Talladega, Lowes, and Kansas ruined his chase. The only teams that are better than Gordon's OVERALL this year are Edwards, Kenseth, Busch, and Johnson. That fact that Dale Jr. is still ahead of Gordon in points is sickening. 4 Top 5s and 12 Top Tens....weak. What has helped Jr. a lot this year is finishing 14th-20th. Jr. Might finish 16th while Gordon blows an engine and finishes 38th or so. Jr's season is a lot like Kenesth's last year. 239. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2011 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Gordon's team has been the best of the Hendrick teams most of the year, thus making his team better than Johnson's, and I don't which Busch you're talking about, since there are two drivers with that last name in the Chase, though I think you're referring to Kyle Busch, since he's won four times this year, as one of three drivers to win four times. I think you need to clarify which Busch you're referring to. One of Gordon's biggest weaknesses is the late-race decision making of his crew chief, which in my view nas never been a strong suit of his. And in this era of strategic decisions deciding races, that is a BIG weakness. But I think Kevin Harvick's team has also been stronger than Gordon's throughout the season. 240. BON GORDON posted: 11.09.2011 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes I mean Kyle Busch, Jesus.....and Harvick is not better than Gordon this year. Harvick hasnt been consistent and is for sure not as strong as he was last year. The first ten races or so harvick was really good but not overall this year. Johnson's team is better than Gordon's overall. I will agree however that at the end of races Gordon and team struggle with the correct strategy and adjustments. 241. 12345Dude posted: 11.09.2011 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) '"David Mayhew (how has no one signed him yet?)" He's thirty years old and doesn't come with a sponsor. He'll end up as the next Tony Raines. "Justin Allgaier" Where? There won't be any openings at either Hendrick or Stewart-Haas for at least three, and probably five years. By the time there is one, Allgaier will have been dropped. "Max Gresham" Just like Coleman and DiBenedetto, I expect him to remain in development driver hell. He'll get pushed to the side once they're ready to move up Darrell Wallace. (Who's going to be a marketing dream.) "Trevor Bayne" Even with the win, he's basically out the door at Roush, and I don't expect him to be picked up by anyone notable. "Parker Kligerman" Has a future in Cup, but not a great one. He'll get in just around the time Dodge pulls out of NASCAR, leading to Penske's fall from relevence. "Nelson Piquet Junior" Future road ringer maybe. I'm not expecting much out of him. And where is he going to go, anyway? "Andrew Ranger" Ditto. Unfortunatly. "Brett Moffitt" Pushed aside once Pastrana is ready. The Dillon's and Stenhouse certainly have futures, but aside from them, only Buescher seems to have the necsesary connections to suceed.' Sorry I took so long to reply. Ahhh, school ' what can you do? I'm telling you David Mayhew is the next Brad Keselowski. He ran in crap equipment in the #19 in the trucks. And he got a Top 10 out of it. With two races with KHI in the trucks he has 2 third place finishes. In one start with KHI in nationwide, he has a top 10. If he keeps getting finishes like that, he will find a sponcer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but just because Allgaier runs for Turner in nationwide, doesn't mean he couldn't end up with a different team in cup? I could see a lower end team, offer him a ride. I think James Buescher is kind of overrated. I mean he's good in the trucks. But he has been mediocre at best in nationwide. Plus he hasn't come close to many wins in the trucks. He just manages to rally off top 10s. Also how can you say Justin Allgaier doesn't have a chance because there are no opening at either Hendrick or Stewart Haas, but you think James Buescher has enough connections? They both race for the same team. 'And 12345Dude, are you really saying thatr Ryan Truex may be as bad as Kyle Busch? I didn't even think that was even possible.' Ok I will admit that I over exaggerated there. There was one K & N East race I watched. Ryan Truex started screaming on the radio, saying 'if _______ keeps racing me so hard like that, I'm going to run him into the wall'. He won the race. And you know how they spray you with water and Gatorade after you win the race? Well after he got out of the car, they did. And he started complaining. 'Why did you guys throw that stuff on me, I'm freezing. C'mon guys'. Ehhh I also heard he had a fit on the radio, at Bristol when Danica and him wrecked. 242. 12345Dude posted: 11.09.2011 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) :/ word document being stupid again '"David Mayhew (how has no one signed him yet?)" He's thirty years old and doesn't come with a sponsor. He'll end up as the next Tony Raines. "Justin Allgaier" Where? There won't be any openings at either Hendrick or Stewart-Haas for at least three, and probably five years. By the time there is one, Allgaier will have been dropped. "Max Gresham" Just like Coleman and DiBenedetto, I expect him to remain in development driver hell. He'll get pushed to the side once they're ready to move up Darrell Wallace. (Who's going to be a marketing dream.) "Trevor Bayne" Even with the win, he's basically out the door at Roush, and I don't expect him to be picked up by anyone notable. "Parker Kligerman" Has a future in Cup, but not a great one. He'll get in just around the time Dodge pulls out of NASCAR, leading to Penske's fall from relevence. "Nelson Piquet Junior" Future road ringer maybe. I'm not expecting much out of him. And where is he going to go, anyway? "Andrew Ranger" Ditto. Unfortunatly. "Brett Moffitt" Pushed aside once Pastrana is ready. The Dillon's and Stenhouse certainly have futures, but aside from them, only Buescher seems to have the necsesary connections to suceed.' Sorry I took so long to reply. Ahhh, school ' what can you do? I'm telling you David Mayhew is the next Brad Keselowski. He ran in crap equipment in the #19 in the trucks. And he got a Top 10 out of it. With two races with KHI in the trucks he has 2 third place finishes. In one start with KHI in nationwide, he has a top 10. If he keeps getting finishes like that, he will find a sponcer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but just because Allgaier runs for Turner in nationwide, doesn't mean he couldn't end up with a different team in cup? I could see a lower end team, offer him a ride. I think James Buescher is kind of overrated. I mean he's good in the trucks. But he has been mediocre at best in nationwide. Plus he hasn't come close to many wins in the trucks. He just manages to rally off top 10s. Also how can you say Justin Allgaier doesn't have a chance because there are no opening at either Hendrick or Stewart Haas, but you think James Buescher has enough connections? They both race for the same team. 'And 12345Dude, are you really saying thatr Ryan Truex may be as bad as Kyle Busch? I didn't even think that was even possible.' Ok I will admit that I over exaggerated there. There was one K & N East race I watched. Ryan Truex started screaming on the radio, saying 'if _______ keeps racing me so hard like that, I'm going to run him into the wall'. He won the race. And you know how they spray you with water and Gatorade after you win the race? Well after he got out of the car, they did. And he started complaining. 'Why did you guys throw that stuff on me, I'm freezing. C'mon guys'. Ehhh I also heard he had a fit on the radio, at Bristol when Danica and hit wrecked. 243. Spen posted: 11.09.2011 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Buescher has a better chance because, being Turner's son-in-law, he's basically assured of a ride for life at Turner. Allgaier is there purely at whim. Which as we saw with Sorenson, can change in a heartbeat. 244. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2011 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) 12345Dude, how can James Buescher be overrated? Sure, he hasn't won a race yet, but when you consider the team he races for and then you consider the teams they're racing against [Richard Childress Racing, Kevin Harvick Incorporated, as well as Kyle Busch], it's a miracle that he's been as competitve as he has been, actually leading the points for a few races, despite never winning a race, and even failing to qualify for a race. The fact that he's come so close to winning as often as he has tells me that Buescher is, if anything, an underrated driver, not overrated as you say he is. 245. Anonymous posted: 11.10.2011 - 2:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rumors of Kyle Busch losing his sponsorship and being out for the season are spreading like wildfire across the internet. If true, that was pretty stupid of NASCAR to park him. The league is already hurting for committed sponsors and competitive teams, and they may have just ruined the #18 car, which has been one of the best over the last 20 years. 246. Anonymous85 posted: 11.10.2011 - 3:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Hopefully the drivers can put on a good show this Sunday and please guys don't use excuses like the tracks been reconfigured/aero-push/the tires are as hard as Dick Cheneys heart it isn't the cars or the tires or the track that is the reason for the abysmal races it is the drivers that is the problem they don't try to put on epic battles for the lead anymore they are just plain lazy. If they did put in more effort and willpower into this strategy instead of just letting the guy out front jump out to a bigger and bigger lead the races would be far, far more interesting 247. irony posted: 11.10.2011 - 3:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Put Reut in the 18. I'm not on the "Reut is underrated" bandwagon like most, but anyone who can win at MWR can win at JGR. 248. irony posted: 11.10.2011 - 3:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm dreaming out loud that Kyle is going to get fired. Anyways, it sounds like either JGR wants to park Kyle and the sponsors aren't biting, or vice versa. 249. irony posted: 11.10.2011 - 5:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like M&Ms are upset, as I read more about it. Interesting that Brad Kez is sticking up for Kyle. Am I the only graveyarder tonight? 250. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2011 - 8:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I also saw Brad saying many times in many ways that Kyle "has suffered enough" and saying he shouldn't be punished any further. I disagree respectfully. In the big scheme of things, the Texas suspension wasn't a huge deal. More of an embarrassment than anything. He was already out of the points. And his sponsor has to be sick and tired. What he did in the Truck race shows he just doesn't get it, and will eventually hurt someone. It is tough to see such a talent with such a seemingly unlimited celing be on the verge of never having a chance to do what he possibly could. But if he can't behave any better than he has, then he must go. He has robbed himself and us fans, but it is his fault. 251. Scott B posted: 11.10.2011 - 9:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Honestly, Kyle's high speed Lexus test drive on public highways should have been a lot more upsetting to M&M/Mars than the Hornaday run-in, in my opinion. I suppose there's also a cumulative effect, though. It's only been 6 months between the two incidents, hypothetically if he goes for another 20-25 years at this rate he'll have quite a portfolio by the time he retires as a driver. 252. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2011 - 10:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) As I said on his drivers page, there is no way Kyle can go another 20 minutes the way he is going now, let alone another 20 years. He is damaged goods for sponsors. There are reports that Z Line Designs has requested that Denny Hamlin drive the NWide car for the last two races. The fallout is fierce as I predicted. No sponsor wants somebody as awful for sponsors as Kyle on so many levels. Again, would Kyle even want to drive these last two races? He will be under the highest powered microscope possible. Does he want to answer the million questions that will be thrown his way? As many toes as he has stepped on, and his being in position to have to be on the absolute best behavior or else, you know many will make his time miserable. This will happen anyway for the first few months of next season. I would want everything to die down a little. I think the best scenario for him is being told to take the last two weeks off, and everyone let's him come back next year. 253. Cooper posted: 11.10.2011 - 10:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The question that the sponsors have to ask themselves, is, will a consumer stop buying their product because of Kyle Busch. If the answer is yes, than Kyle needs to be replaced, if the answer is no then they will stay. If a person is at their local corner store and has a choice to purchase M&M's, or another chocolate bar, I don't think Kyle Busch affects their decision. As a business type guy, the bottom line always comes to dollars and cents. That's what I've learned, and personally I don't think candy sales are in any way tied to Kyle Busch. It's not like a beer sponsorship, where people thrive on which drivers, drive the beer cars. Why doesn't Kyle Busch just take the last two weeks off on his own decision. Make it look like you sorry, but go on vacation and come back refreshed next year. Sometimes the best way to heal emotionally, is do nothing. 254. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2011 - 10:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Actually, DSFF, Joey Logano is piloting the 18 car in the Nationwide Series event at Phoenix this weekend. And as for who would take Busch's place if he is parked by Gibbs for the last two Sprint Cup races. That's a tough one. One site mentioned Aric Almirola as a possibility, but that wouldn't make any sense for two reasons. First, there was the shabby treatment he got while at Gibbs [remember Milwaukee a few years ago?]. Then there is the team and manufacturer situation. Almirola drives in the Nationwide Series for Dale Earnhardt, Jr.'s team, which is an offshoot of Hendrick Motorsports. The no. 18 team, like Earnhardt's no. 88, not to mention the 24 and 48, is in the Chase, and the 18 would be direct competitor to them in the owners standings. And irony, how can David Reutimann be put in the 18 car, when he's still under contract with Michael Waltrip's team until the end of the season, and the last time I checked, the season isn't over yet. Now if Busch is fired, which he should have been a long time ago, due mostly to his 128 MPH speeding ticket, then I could see Reutimann being put in the car for next year, but not for the final two races of this season. I'd be very interested to see who Gibbs does put in the car for the final two races if Busch is taken out of it. After all, the Michael McDowell thing didn't exactly work out. Does Gibbs put a veteran driver like Kenny or Mike Wallace in it, does he give McDowell a full weekend with the team, or does he give another young driver a shot at that 18 car? 255. AlmirolaFan88 posted: 11.10.2011 - 11:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Manufacturer jumping hasn't seemed to be a problem over the past couple of years. Last year at this time Aric Almirola was driving a Ford (Cup) Chevy (Nationwide) and Toyota (Truck), all in the same weekend. Sure, his Nationwide results haven't been much to sniff at this season, but the last time he was in a Cup car....he finished 4th at Homestead. And after what happened in 2007, I think JGR owes him one. 256. Scott B posted: 11.10.2011 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would nominate Mike Bliss for the temp job, but he's already entered in the #32 this weekend. That might be negotiable, though, since that car has been driven by committee this season. He's played a similar role for Gibbs in the past. If they really wanted to hit one out of the ballpark, put Bill Elliott in the car for two weeks. He was only voted most popular driver a gazillion times. Bill's been working with Hendrick on his son Chase's development, though... don't know if that would be a deal breaker. But it'd fun to see him in a decent Cup ride again. :) More realistic, though, I think Almirola would accept the offer if it was made. 257. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2011 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott B, if you wanted to put one of the old ex-champions in that car, it would be Terry Labonte, given how long his brother Bobby drove that very car. The problem with putting Almirola in that car, besides Gibbs' shabby treatment of him in the past, is the obvious conflict of interest betwwen the 18 car and the Hendrick orgaaization, in which Almirola is an unofficial member due to the fact that he drives Earnhardt's Nationwide car. Now, if the 18 wasn't in the Chase, I could make a much better case for putting Almirola in that car, but because it's in direct competition with the Hendrick cars, that would kill that deal, in my view. That's why I think he might put Kenny or Mike Wallace in that car if he sits Busch out. I think a better option, if he wanted to go with a younger driver, would be a guy like Brian Scott, who's already in the fold at Gibbs, or even a driver from the Truck Series, since they're idle this week [like Johnny Sauter, Matt Crafton, or even Timothy Peters]. Two drivers that certainly would not be candidates would be J.J. Yeley [as popular as that might be, considering he's from Arizona] or Jason Leffler, both of whom driver for Gibbs and were complete flops. My guess is that Gibbs might choose McDowell, since he's driven for Gibbs in the Nationwide Series, and is from Arizona. Of course, if Busch is permitted by his team to drive, the chances for which seem now to be remote, all this conversation would be meaningless. 258. Scott B posted: 11.10.2011 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, I'd thought about Terry Labonte, too, considering the family connection and his part-time status. He'd certainly be a safe choice as far as soothing things with fans and sponsors. If we see a young driver instead of a veteran, it's going to raise a lot more speculation about whether it's a just a fill-in gig, or an audition for 2012. I think people are paying as much attention to this as the championship now. Hopefully the race Sunday will be interesting enough to change that. 259. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2011 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As long as the Wood Brothers don't have him entered for them, let Trevor drive the 18 in preparation for driving it full time next year. 260. Scott B posted: 11.10.2011 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trevor Bayne and Ricky Stenhouse Jr. will be off limits for this one. Jack Roush hates Toyota too much to let it happen, even though it would be logical from a driver devopment and scheduling standpoint. 261. Scott B posted: 11.10.2011 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They could just put Hornaday in the 18 and call it even... (just joking on that one, though it would even out the karma). 262. Talon64 posted: 11.10.2011 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Did Kyle kill Ron and nobody told me? Otherwise, I think this is bullshit. What Kyle did was one of the most stupid and pointless on-track incidents I've seen in a while but he did the time and sat out the weekend, and now NASCAR's given him the okay to race for the rest of the year. For the sponsors to be piling on now is ridiculous. M&M's and Z-Line knew EXACTLY what they were getting into with Kyle Busch when they decided that he should represent him as a driver, and Kyle's given them all the attention and air-time possible. It's a fact too, nobody's gotten more air-time during NASCAR races this season than Kyle Busch. Shame on them for forcing Kyle out of the car and even more shame on them if they decide to jump ship for good or force JGR to change drivers. Sad thing is, it's something of a trend with JGR now. Remember Rockwell forcing JGR to replace Aric Almirola mid-race at Milwaukee in NNS in 2007? It's hard to sit here and say that a team should just tell their sponsor to stick it since there's money and jobs on the line, but it all just leaves an awful taste in my mouth. 263. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2011 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I agree that the Roush drivers are off limits, as would be the drivers from the other Cup teams that compete against Gibbs that also compete in the lower series. That would eliminate drivers such as Austin Dillon, Sam Hornish, Jr., as well as the other development drivers under the Hendrick Motorsports umbrella, such as Danica Patrick and Aric Almirola from Dale, Jr.'s Nationwide team, or Justin Allgaier, James Buescher, and Jason Leffler from Turner Motorsports, which is also aligned with Hendrick Motorports, though to a much smaller degree. That might also prevent Gibbs from using Landon Cassill, if he wanted to, because Cassill is also a Hendrick Motorsports development driver. Cole Whitt might have been an option this week, but he's entered in a third Red Bull team car. So much as he might not want to, Joe Gibbs might have to stick with Kyle Busch, due to the lack of options available to him. 264. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2011 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Talon64, Kyle should have been fired after his 128 MPH speeding ticket earlier this year. If it's true that sponsors want to kick him out of the 18 car, it's well past due that someone outside of NASCAR take care of this punk who doesn't even care about his own well being. It would be one thing if this was a one or two-time deal, but Kyle Busch has a rap sheet as long as Interstate 10, as it's getting longer by the race. In fact, he's been involved in six or seven incidents like this, at least, this year alone. Frankly, I wonder if, in light of the Jeremy Mayfield situation, Kyle Busch has been clean while he's been racing. Could Kyle actually have a drug problem that nobody knows about? Because to be involved in this many incidents this year, and I'm not even counting his run-ins in past years, so we may have start wondering if Kyle's been doing drugs at some point in his career. Frankly, I don't think he has done drugs, but because he's been involved in so many incidents, along with his Mt. St. Helens personality, that you have to start wondering if drugs are, in some way, involved here. And because NASCAR's drug-testing policy has always been the worst and most secretive in all of professional sports, you really have to wonder if NASCAR really believes that drugs could be involved, because I know if I were in charge, I would drug test any driver that's in a wild payback incident, especially if he has a history, like Kyle Busch has. 265. Talon64 posted: 11.10.2011 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't think Kyle's issues over the years are even any worse than what Tony Stewart was doing during his more tumultuous years. In fact, remember this from as recently as 2006? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MADH0QQ13xo Hypocritical too, considering how he was complaining about over-aggressive driving earlier in the week. Home Depot and JGR wasn't ready to kick Tony out of the car then, or in 2002. All Z-Line and M&M's are doing is realizing how many butt-hurt fans are up in arms about it and they're trying to appeal to them by making Kyle Busch the sacrificial lamb and it sucks. 266. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2011 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I think the only drug Kyle is under the influence of is gross egocentrism. But it is worth wondering about cjs. 267. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.10.2011 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm with post #264, Talon i can't believe your even remotly defending Kyle Busch staying. NASCAR didn't screw Kyle Busch, Kyle Busch screwed Kyle Busch. I don't think Kyle is on something, i think is just one of those people who have a hard time controling their temper. 268. 18fan posted: 11.10.2011 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are reports that Kyle will be in the #18 at Phoenix and Homestead with Interstate Batteries sponsorship. But there are also reports that M&M's has the right to the car for the last two races and therefore JGR contacted Aric Almirola and if necessary Aric would drive the car. My question is, regarding next year and assuming Kyle still has his ride, would Interstate Batteries sponsor more than the 6 races they have sponsored the last 4 years or would another sponsor take the risk to associate themselves with Kyle for at least part of the season? 269. Talon64 posted: 11.10.2011 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @Smokefan I can't believe it either. lol NASCAR didn't screw Kyle, NASCAR did the right thing in sitting Kyle for the rest of the weekend which is about as severe a penalty as they've ever given, fine him and put him on probation (with undoubtedly a double-secret probation as well) and leave it at that. I just see what other people have done in the past, and the things they've CONTINUED to do in the past, like Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick and Robby Gordon and I can't separate Kyle from them. Or see why it's Kyle's sponsors that are up-in-arms and not Home Depot (although HD were somewhat, weren't they? But they did stick around), Goodwrench, or Jim Bean/Menards when their drivers were wreaking havoc or doing things that weren't very becoming of their sponsors. What right does M&M's have now to do this, when THEY SHOULD'VE KNOWN WHAT THEY WERE GETTING INTO? In 2008, when Kyle was still very much Kyle? 270. Cooper posted: 11.10.2011 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That's a little ridiculous don't you think cjs....Kyle deserves a little more credit than being accused of doing drugs. Look, I've posted a lot of things about Kyle Busch, even taking attacks at his personal life....Check out the Spring Bristol Race Page....But there is no way in hell that Kyle would do drugs. Don't ever accuse someone of doing stuff like that. Some fans are partly to blame for this. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti will like me for saying this....But...Just two years ago fans told NASCAR to let the drivers "Have At It" and that they wanted to see drivers settle there issues on the racetrack without having any restrictions. Now when a driver steps over the line some fans wanted, the same fans throw Kyle under the bus for retaliating... Hypocrisy at it's finest. I dislike Kyle as much as everyone, but I'd rather see him get his ass kicked on the racetrack than to be sitting at home. 271. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2011 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Cooper, I didn't accuse him of doing drugs. In fact, if you read that entire post, you'd see that I don't believe that he is. What I'm saying is that you have to wonder due to the sheer number of incidents he's been involved in just this year, whether or not that could be a reason why he's been even more erratic than usual. Combine that with the fact that NASCAR's drug testing policy is, in my view, easily the worst and most secretive in all of professional sports, and you just have to wonder if drugs aren't playing a role in all this. And like I said, any time a driver does what Kyle did at Texas, if I were in charge, I'd have him take a drug test the very next day, if possible, to see if he was, in some way, intoxicated. Like I said, he's been involved in about six or seven crazy incidents this year alone, and that doesn't even take into consideration his run-ins in past years. 272. LordLowe posted: 11.10.2011 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) At post 268: Sometimes Robert you just have to except the sponsors motive here no matter how illogical and nonsensical it is. 273. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2011 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The question that has to be asked now is whether or not Kyle is permanent damaged goods to sponsors. Interstate Batteries has stepped up, but I suspect that is more about the close relationship between that company's CEO and Joe Gibbs. Interstate cannot be the primary sponsor of a top notch Cup team. They don't have enough money. Will JGR be able to patch together enough sponsorship to run Kyle at a top level for an entire season? You can piss off all the fans and fellow competitors you want. But when sponsors want no part of you, you are finished. No sponsors = no money. No money = no speed. Kyle better pray with all his might that all will be forgiven over the offseason by the people who pay the bills. And while he is at it, he better pray for a ton of patience. He is going to face every single question he doesn't want to have to answer over and over again every single week for at least the first 4 months of next season. And even the slightest misstep on or off the track will be dissected within the NASCAR community the way the current Penn State scandal is currently being dissected*. And he will have no choice but to take it week after week. *I just want it to be known that, even as dangerous as a lot of it has been, I am in no way trying to compare Kyle's actions with what has gone on at Penn State. But the fact is every single media outlet with a camera and mike is in College Park right now reporting on every single thing that anyone is doing there. And every single outlet that covers NASCAR at all will similarly be all over Kyle next year. 274. 18fan posted: 11.10.2011 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle will drive the last 2 races with Interstate Batteries sponsorship on the #18. 275. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.10.2011 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jim Beam left Robby for Kid Rock (i don't hate or dislike Kid Rock, i like some of his music). I believe John can sponser Robby when ever he wants too (remember Robby almost won the 1999 indy 500 with "menards" on his car) Monster left for the GOAT and others. "Some fans are partly to blame for this. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti will like me for saying this....But...Just two years ago fans told NASCAR to let the drivers "Have At It" and that they wanted to see drivers settle there issues on the racetrack without having any restrictions. Now when a driver steps over the line some fans wanted, the same fans throw Kyle under the bus for retaliating... Hypocrisy at it's finest." Been saying it for awhile but didn't want to add the last part of the post i quoted. But its the truth. "I just see what other people have done in the past, and the things they've CONTINUED to do in the past, like Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick and Robby Gordon and I can't separate Kyle from them." Tony and Kevin i can see but for Robby i can't. The only thing he has gotten into is with Sliced Bread (i don't count the Conman situation). 276. LordLowe posted: 11.10.2011 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant post 269 not post 268 sorry a little typo there 277. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.11.2011 - 1:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott B, great point there! lol... Anyone remember 2008 when Benson and Hornaday were racing for the Truck title? Roush sent some of his guys to help Hornaday's crew at one of the remaining races when Ron got wrecked, then claimed he was "helping the lesser of the two evils". So yeah, I really doubt Roush would allow Trevor to race a Toyota while he's still under contract with him. And as a side note, I wonder what he thinks of his former long-time driver (Mark Martin) going to drive a Toyota next year? And in my opinion, Kyle is a lot worse than Tony Stewart ever was. Tony, although he too made some real jerkass moves (especially in 2004 and 2006), I don't think he has ever wrecked anyone as blatantly under a caution as Kyle did this past week. And yes, I really believe that all the antics and bad press of Kyle Busch has finally caught up with him. Interstate Batteries, who very seldomly appears on the #18 car, will be the sponsor for the final two races. If this, and the rumor that Z Line Designs requested for Denny Hamlin to drive the #18 Nationwide car for the final two races are true, then Kyle HAS TO get it together. Like people have already mentioned lots of times, he can't keep going about his career this way. In today's economy, I think it's wise to have as many sponsors on your side as possible, seeing that it is virtually impossible in this day and age to run a team without a sponsor. The sad truth is, I think Z Line Designs and M&M's held Kyle to a much higher standard when they started sponsoring him and thought he would never pull stunts like this that would get them bad press. This is the only explanation in my mind as to why they would turn on him now despite many controversial incidents. And yes, I imagine that the media and fans will be all over Kyle next season. They just love to pile onto controversial characters. 278. 18fan posted: 11.11.2011 - 1:38 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) M&M's said they will return in 2012 under the expectation that there will be no further incidents regarding Kyle. 279. KahnesGal4 posted: 11.11.2011 - 4:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was condemning Busch as much as anyone for his behavior for last week, but even I started to feel bad about him possibly losing his ride. It didn't feel right. He had to be punished, and I think he was appropriately. But now I'm worried that he'll stop focusing on the lesser series, start keeping his head together, and next year he'll be a dangerous threat to win the championship. He must realize just how close he came to ruining, or at the very least, setting back his career several years. And damn it, with Gibbs keeping an even tighter leash and such an eye-opening experience, he's probably going to be a better driver now. Let me get back to you at this time next year to see if I regret hoping he wouldn't lose his ride. This is exactly the kind of adversity someone like him goes through before reaching their full potential. Or, he fails at controlling his temper, and is pushed out of NASCAR. Either way, it will make a great documentary 20 years from now, when we have some perspective to look back at his career when it's over. 280. Spen posted: 11.11.2011 - 5:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I don't expect a good year. With TRD motors, he'll be lucky to pick up a couple of short track wins, and make the chase. *If* he can keep it together throughout all of this, he may be a champion in 2014. But that's a big if. And Kyle is notoriously bad at dealing with adversity. But yeah, a Kyle documentary will be quite fun. "How To Have All The Talent and Oportunities In the World, and Still Screw It Up." Can I direct? 281. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2011 - 8:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "But yeah, a Kyle documentary will be quite fun. "How To Have All The Talent and Oportunities In the World, and Still Screw It Up." Can I direct?" *start that ominous music that plays during all the ESPN 30 for 30 promos* What if I told you that having every single tangible tool at its absolute best at your fingertips isn't nearly enough for some people to even scratch their potential? What if I told you an incredibly underachieving athlete that constantly causes PR nightmares that embarrass an entire sport is, for some unknown reason, considered good for that very sport? What if I told you having unlimited potential, no matter how little of it has actually been realized over an extended period of time, will allow you an unlimited reserve of forgiveness and "second" chances? What if I told you a series of wrist slaps for punishments of increasingly immature and dangerous acts, even in the wake of a stunning and horrifying televised on-track death of a fellow motorsports star, and actual champion, would lead people to claim "he has suffered enough"? What if I told you somebody could actually make M&M's seem unenticing? Ah hell, who am I kidding? They are still scrum-diddly-umptious! What if I told you I am gonna go throw up now? ESPN presents- "30 for 30: Kyle Busch- Goddamn NASCAR Is Really Uninteresting Right Now, We REALLY Need Somebody Like Him Out There To Wake Fans From Their Coma". Directed by Roman Polanski, somebody else who has "suffered enough", having been "exiled" to Europe for the past 34 years to live like a king. Alternate titles: "Kyle Busch: Potential Is Everything. And I Mean EV-ER-Y-THING!!!!" "Kyle Busch: Growing Up Is Optional" (also a good title for Dale Jr's doc) "Kyle Busch: How Kicking Out The Most Talented Driver For The Most Uninterested Driver Can Actually Help An Organization" "Kyle Busch: Just Like The Leaves, Wilting Every Fall" "Kyle Busch: The Second Coming Of Big E Just Like Vince Carter Was The Second Coming Of MJ" "Kyle Busch: Destroying Joe Gibbs Legacy Built Over 25 Years Of Winning In Sports And In Life In Just 4 Years" "Kyle Busch: Less Season Ending Top 5 Point Finishes Than Clint Bowyer" 282. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2011 - 9:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) KahnesGal, I would I agree if this were his first offense. This isn't his first offense in the past 3 months (the Sadler wreck in the Bristol Truck race). Add that to his trio of offenses over a 5 week stretch from mid May through early June where he hooked Harvick under caution at Darlington (notice a pattern here?), driving 128mph in a 45mph zone in a residential area over the Charlotte weeks, then bumping developmental driver for RCR Joey Coulter on the cool down lap leading to a garage beating from senior citizen Richard Childress. I am all for second chances. But he had his "second chance" a long time ago. Just this year alone he has had 5 inexcusible situations. Enough is enough. He has been given chance after chance that he flat out doesn't deserve. The sport does not need Kyle Busch. The media will tell you they do simply because he makes their job easy by constantly giving them something easy to write about. Give him his walking papers, and believe me, the fans will forget about him so fast it will make your head spin. Besides, we have our "brash young force who will speak his mind, drive hard, be unapologetic, and refuse to fall in that corporate cookie cutter mold who can back it all up on the track". His name is Brad Keselowski. You may remember him as the guy that, when Kyle was asked about him last year, he arrogantly responded "Who?" in reference to his mighty first year struggles. Well Kyle, do you want to know who he is? He is the guy who will finish ahead of you in points this year (with or without the suspension) and might possibly match your career total for Top 5 points finishes in just his second full season. He is the guy who has already matched your win total after 4 seasons despite the fact he drove less than half the races that first year for a part time Hendrick team, a Start and Park team that was given Hendrick motors and chassis for his races in that car, and ended with the struggling #12 Penske car. that's right Kyle, how bout them apples? Asshole. 283. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.11.2011 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I asked a question as to which who streak of championships would end first. Sebastien Loeb or Jimmie Johnsons. Well for those of you who guess that Mr. Loebs would, how wrong you were. Wins his 8th straight. and Jimmies has (just about offically) come to an end. well i feel proud that i guess that Jimmies would. :-P 284. KahnesGal4 posted: 11.11.2011 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Good lord there are some angry, cynical, bitter people on this board. Some drivers really tick me off, but wow, it's not like they are doing drugs, stealing, or murdering people (Except for Mayfield). Stories of redemption are fascinating to me, no matter who it is, because I believe people can change. There is no point at which a person can no longer be saved. And when we're talking about on track behavior, I just can't imagine getting worked up the same way some of you do here. These aren't the worst things a person can do. Busch isn't beating his wife, or killing dogs, or bringing loaded guns into bars. He's not cooking up meth, or looking the other way as children are being molested, or sexually assaulting drunk girls. Honestly, I wonder if some of you don't have just as much of an anger problem as Busch. And he's dealing with the pressure and stress of being a professional athlete. I'm pretty sure Busch doesn't spend time spewing a bunch of anonymous vitriol onto the internet in his free time. So tell me this, who's really the mature one, in the scheme of life? Makes me wonder sometimes. 285. Cooper posted: 11.11.2011 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "284. KahnesGal4 posted: 11.11.11 - 7:54 pm" "or sexually assaulting drunk girls." Ben Roethlisberger (I'm assuming this is who you mean) was actually never found guilty. Just Sayin'. He's actually my favorite NFL Player so I know how Kyle Busch fans about being hated... But I agree with most of what you say. I've made huge mistakes in my life, I have anger problems and the world is based upon second chances. Heck even the bible says to forgive...But, the world is also based on revenge, and frankly a lot of fans feel like Kyle deserved to get "stoned"... 286. I love Japan posted: 11.11.2011 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Brian Vickers if you are reading this, get out of Cup. No one wants you here in this series. You wasted so many years of my life. Why did I support a guy as scummy as you. Now go on being the next Casey Atwood. 287. Red posted: 11.11.2011 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) KahnesGal, I understand where you're coming from. In the grand scheme of things, Kyle Busch really hasn't done anything that terrible. He's a jerk, but he hasn't hurt anyone, so I would agree that some of the hatred spewed at him is a bit overboard. However, I think there's another major reason why people are so angry at Kyle Busch: the fact that he's pissing away more talent and opportunity than most drivers (and people in general) could even dream of. Think about something that you're passionate about. Now imagine that you are the most naturally talented person in the country at that particular discipline, AND you are getting paid millions of dollars to do something you already love. Wouldn't you do everything you could to maximize that opportunity? Wouldn't you realize how great your life is and not do anything to jeopardize it? To me, that is the most disgusting thing about Kyle Busch - he's been given the keys to the castle yet he keeps tossing them in the moat instead. He doesn't appreciate what he has, and that pisses people off. Kyle is the spoiled rich kid at school that we all despised, and he still hasn't grown up. Compare Kyle to Jimmie for example. Yes JJ has been dealt a better hand than most drivers, but he's milked that opportunity for everything it's worth, and he doesn't take it for granted. He behaves and drives like a man who knows how lucky he is, and he stays hungry and focused because he wants to get everything he can while he still has the chance. I respect Jimmie for that, because if I ever had a chance to walk in his shoes, I'd do things the same way he has. For Kyle, a little gratitude would go a long way. 288. I love Japan posted: 11.11.2011 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Kyle Busch definately is a crybaby who needed a wake up call. Here's hoping that these punishments will be the big steps needed to give him that call and make it ring loudly through his ears all the way to his brain. He's got the talent. He's got the intangibles. Now he's got to grow up, be a man, and live up to his potential. 289. irony posted: 11.11.2011 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The human brain is fully developed at precisely age 25. Kyle is 26. He's not an immature kid anymore. He doesn't have natural impulses that result in boyish tantrums. He doesn't have any growing to do. He is what he is. Hard to imagine him changing. Anger management classes **may** help him. 290. Spen posted: 11.12.2011 - 1:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love Japan: Are you the poster formerly known as Rad83? 291. I love Japan posted: 11.12.2011 - 2:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes I am actually. How did you figure that one out? LOL 292. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.12.2011 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) KahnesGirl, he has done some stuff that could have really hurt or killed somebody, most notably the 128 debacle. He could have killed not only himself but his wife and other innocent motorists the way Rob Moroso did in 1990 about 5 miles from where Kyle got busted. Again, I am for SECOND chances. But when somebody screws up over and over and over again, year after year, and shows no real sign of improving (his apologies sound just like the other ten he has had to give in the past), that bugs me. NASCAR is in danger of becoming like other sports where top athletes can act up all they want as long as they have the potential to get the job done on the field or track. Like Big Ben for example, or about 50 NBA players. These people have no recourse just because they are good at what they do. That is a turn off. 293. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.12.2011 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I agree, DaleSrFan. I'm not one to give labels to drivers, but when someone makes as many controversial faux pas as Kyle does, plus throw in his "rich kid" persona (throwing a fit, like he has in the past when he finished second) and it's understandable why so many fans come on here and talk about why it bothers them. By the way, I don't generally think of him as a spoiled rich kid, but he sure as hell acts like one. 294. the_man posted: 11.24.2011 - 9:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on a 12th place finish: "We had a top-five car for most of the day and we had just a slight hiccup on that last pit stop. We kept adjusting on our UPS Ford the entire race and we stayed up front most of the day. Leaving here with a top 15 finish is better than what it could of been, but our car was better than where we finished. We qualified really well here and had a good time, so it's unfortunate we didn't finish up front. We're looking forward to going back to Phoenix." 295. Shift into Top Gear posted: 02.07.2012 - 8:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scenes for a "Series 18" episode of Top Gear were filmed during this race weekend. In a segment promoting the merits of NASCAR, the English program sent host Richard Hammond to this event to interview drivers and point out the benefits and some history of the series. Although they slightly played up the "Fandom Rivalry" with Formula 1 (and other hosts still stated F1 is better) it was a pretty positive segment for a show that once made a punchline that they had no idea who Jeff Gordon was. Gordon, Jimmie Johnson and ex-F1 racer Juan Pablo Montoya were all featured and interviewed during the segment. Among Hammond's duties during this weekend were driving the red Chevrolet Camaro pace car during the parade laps, helping Mark Martin's #5 team get its tires during the race and interviewing the drivers. The day after the race Hammond received some lessons in driving a stock car from Kyle Petty. 296. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #30 David Stremme & #95 David Starr Out using fastest 43: #36 Geoffrey Bodine & #38 Travis Kvapil 297. Robert Nelson posted: 07.13.2012 - 1:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 points Carl Edwards 283 Kyle Busch 272 Jimmie Johnson 255 6th. Tony Stewart 201 (7th driver to get 200 points) F1 points Chase Carl Edwards 78 Matt Kenseth 73 Jimmie Johnson 65 F1 points real life Chase Tony Stewart 110 (1st driver to get 100 points) Carl Edwards 78 Matt Kenseth 73 298. David posted: 09.07.2013 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As of this race, there have been 80000 starts in NASCAR's top series. 299. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 04.24.2014 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Withdrew 77 Robby Gordon Dodge Speed Energy Robby Gordon 77 T.J. Bell Ford TRG Motorsports Kevin Buckler 300. Evan posted: 11.15.2014 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) WINNER Tony Stewart Office Depot/Mobil 1/"WE DO PRINTING" Source:Jayski.com Tony Stewart and team had the big words on the hood of the car during his championship run. 301. Nu3clear Wa4le posted: 08.28.2015 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor update #14 - Office Depot "We Do Shipping" / Mobil 1 302. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 09.28.2016 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DC 18 Kyle Busch M&M's Joe Gibbs Toyota 66 Michael McDowell HP Racing Phil Parsons Toyota 303. 18fan posted: 10.07.2016 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This win made 2011 the third different season in which Tony Stewart won consecutive races twice in one season, after having previously done so in 2000 and 2005. 304. dantheracer99 posted: 07.26.2020 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) British Motoring Journalist and Broadcaster Richard Hammond was the honorary Pace Car Driver for this race and was also soaking in the sights and sounds for a feature for Season 18 of the British TV Show Top Gear. He also had a hand in helping Mark Martin's #5 Hendrick Motorsports crew during the day by cleaning the grille and getting new sets of tyres from Goodyear. It was quite funny, when on Top Gear the feature aired Robin Pemberton in the drivers meeting introduced him and literally no one knew who he was! Nearly 10 years later he's a lot more well known now. 305. RaceFanX posted: 07.26.2020 - 3:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I suspect there was so playful editing at play. "Top Gear" was a big hit in the USA by 2011 so many people knew who Hammond was here by that point. Some of that segment also did have the NASCAR drivers joking around with him (health conscious Jimmie Johnson joking about not wanting to be seen eating salad comes to mind). Still a great segment though. I thought it was fun. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: