|| *Comments on the 2012 Daytona 500:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. LordLowe posted: 02.19.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) A message for all the drivers competing in the 500. Use your heads and don't drive like idiots 2. 18fan posted: 02.19.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 3rd straight year that the drivers on the front row for the Daytona 500 are teammates. It's also the first Daytona 500 since 2007 without a Hendrick car on the front row, interestingly that was the last time two Fords were on the front row for the 500. Trevor Bayne, Tony Raines, and David Stremme locked themselves into the field based on their qualifying speeds and Terry Labonte is in using a PCP. If he races his way in, then Bill Elliott would get the PCP. 3. Anonymous posted: 02.19.2012 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Labonte might be able to get in on speed too, he was fifth fastest of the go or go homers. How about Casey Mears? 4. 18fan posted: 02.19.2012 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After blowing an engine really early in their duel last year and missing the 500, today was a complete 360 for Mears and the 13 team. 5. Anonymous posted: 02.19.2012 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer's time was disallowed after his car failed post-qualifying inspection. 6. Rusty posted: 02.19.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica Patrick will be the only driver making a Cup debut in this years' Daytona 500. Possibly the most hyped Cup debut ever... 7. 18fan posted: 02.19.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MWR has had restrictor plate cars be illegal at the last two plate races. 8. Bronco posted: 02.19.2012 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great to see Carl get his championship (hopefully) season off to the right start. This is his second straight pole going back to Homestead '07. The previous driver to win a pole in the last race of a season and back it up with a pole in the first race of the new season was Jimmie Johnson ('07-'08). Fastest pole speed at Daytona since Nemechek's pole for the 1999 Pepsi 400. Raines and Stremme posting times that good was very surprising to me. I expected to Bayne to lock himself in (which happened) but I thought Nemechek and Waltrip would up better laps. We'll have to see how he does in the Duels, but between the Shootout and qualifying Dale Jr and Jeff Gordon look to be threats to score another 500 win. If Terry Labonte falls back on his PCP as he does usually, it will be the 14th time he has done so since his 2006 "retirement". "MWR has had restrictor plate cars be illegal at the last two plate races." The problem with the #15 had something to do with the shocks, which is far less serious than the windshield issue last year of the C-post issue on the #48 on Friday. 9. Daniel posted: 02.19.2012 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I never expected Raines and Stremme to be as fast as they were. Very surprised to see the Nemechek cars and Blaney be as bad as they were. They usually have much more speed than that at the plate tracks. 10. 10andJoe posted: 02.19.2012 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd wager Herman and Dave Blaney have a reasonable shot to get in the 500; barring wrecks (a big "barring" this year) there's a good shot for Trevor Bayne, at least, to get one of the race-in spots. Everbody not locked in from Mikey on down is in trouble, though. 11. Bronco posted: 02.20.2012 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Waltrip may be in trouble since all his team cars in the other race and won't be around to help him. But for the sake of not having to hear him during the broadcast, I hope he races his way in. Going to predict that Dale Jr and Martin Truex Jr as the winners of Duel #1 and #2. Both showed a lot of power during the Shootout. Michael Waltrip, Dave Blaney, Kenny Wallace, and Robby Gordon race their way in. 12. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.20.2012 - 4:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) According to Jayski, Terry was 4th fastest and got in on time. 13. Anonymous posted: 02.20.2012 - 10:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenny was faster than Terry by a hundredth of a second for the fourth fastest. Labonte is the fourth driver due to his PCP. I think they can both race their way in. 14. Kyle, #1 McDriver Fan! posted: 02.20.2012 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) McDowell will win his duel race and lock himself into the 500 15. Scott B posted: 02.20.2012 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Terry Labonte will race his way in during the twins, there isn't much motivation for the FAS team to go all-out in that event. It is possible that he could get in on his qualifying speed, though, if Bayne and one other go-or-go home driver ahead of him on that list race thier way in. Blaney should race in if he isn't caught in a wreck. Beyond that, it's harder to say. There are some good plate racers in bad equipment, hard to predict how that'll play out. 16. Daniel posted: 02.20.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In Duel 1, I believe Bayne will race in fairly easily, moving Kenny Wallace in by speed. I also think, even though he's in Rick Ware equipment, Mike Wallace will find a way to race in yet again. Duel 2 is going to be tight as Kenny Wallace, Blaney, Nemechek, and Elliott all could race their way in. Don't see Richardson Jr. or Yeley having much of a shot. Going to go with Blaney and Nemechek getting in though 17. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.20.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, this page is already up? We might have 500 comments by the time the green flag drops. Especially when somebody like, say for example, me, predicts Gordon wins his 4th 500 on Sunday setting the tome for his 5th championship this season (that sound you hear is cjs running to his computer to say Jeff will never contend for another Cup title as me and him try to out-reverse-jinx each other). In all seriousness, this race is wide open. Who knows who will be left standing after 500 miles. Will we have yet another surprise winner? Will Smoke finally win it after knocking on the door so many times? And I do think Gordon will win the Cup. As we saw from Earnhardt in 2000, and were about to see in 2001, the combination of being rejuvenated by your environment (Dale was finally in competitive cars again, Gordon is out of the crushing shadow of the 48 monster he helped create), being rejuvenated by refound health (Dale's neck, Jeff's back), having a fun family situation (Dale saw Dale Jr's skyrocketing racing career after a lifetime of aimlessness, Jeff is happier than ever with his two kids), and still having the skills that made you a legend in the first place and having the fun of reminding everyone that you are still Dale/Jeff Freaking Earnhardt/Gordon equals success. Jeff's 2011 was like Dale's 2000. This year Jeff and DuPont celebrate 20 years together. They haven't announced it yet or even had rumors about it, but you know they will pull out the old rainbow design at some point. They have to! How could they not? And it will be symbolic as people like me are once again cursing and saying "That Damn Gordon" just like we did when he drove that rainbow scheme. 18. LordLowe posted: 02.21.2012 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF Didn't you claim during his rookie season that Gordon would run Hendrick Motorsports out of Business. BTW if you think the DP coverage is ridiculous just imagine if she wins the 500 we will never hear the end of it for a long long time. 19. Mr X posted: 02.21.2012 - 7:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 24 team needs to run a few races with the rainbow scheme and uniforms, refuse to lose needs to be written on the pitbox somewhere, and whenever the 24 is leading the tomahawk needs to be broken out again. 20. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.21.2012 - 9:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the Rainbow Warriors make a return this season, I might have to break out the small gas cans in honor of the '98 The Winston... In all honesty, this year's field is difficult to predict because of, as Scott B. said, all the solid RP drivers in under-funded rides. Terry will drive conservatively in his Duel and finish around 20th. As for the winners of the Duels, take 10 drivers from each one and pick one. 21. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.21.2012 - 10:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hmmm. Roush on the front row? Watch the engines on the Chevy's and Toyota's, they'll probably go south, even with the rules update allowing for larger grill openings. Maybe, just maybe, I should change my predictions from Montoya, Stewart, and McMurray should be Kenseth, Biffle, and Stenhouse. I mean, it's Daytona. Any bloody thing can happen. Heck, Trevor Bayne could make it in on speed! Wait...he already did that. 22. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.21.2012 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hey DSFF Didn't you claim during his rookie season that Gordon would run Hendrick Motorsports out of Business." Well, I was only 9 at the time. I thought he would win some races throughout his career, but I certainly didn't think he would ever win ONE championship. He could run fast, but would always make a crucial mistake late pushing too hard. Honestly, I watched him and thought he was the next Ernie Irvan. Remember, this was before 1994 when Ernie took a HUGE leap forward in maturity behind the wheel and might have began a Yates dynasty were it not for his Michigan wreck. Even at the end of '93 in his first few races with Yates, it was Vintage Ernie. Two dominating wins, and two unprovoked wrecks at Dover and Atlanta. So that is what I thought Jeff would be. Even after 1994 and Jeff's two big wins he was still very inconsistent. Then 1995 happened. "If the Rainbow Warriors make a return this season, I might have to break out the small gas cans in honor of the '98 The Winston... Lol. I remember that race well. I had already long since been in "I cannot stand to watch Jeff win all the freaking time" mode. As he was coming towards the white flag, I was slumped in my seat. Earlier, Dale was in an awful crash and walked away holding his ribs, his second huge crash that month to go with his Dega wreck that burned him. He already had obviously not been the same since his other Dega wreck 2 years earlier. So I was already down about that because it damn sure looked like my guy was limping towards the end of his career while this slick California kid had taken the sport from him. And he was about to win again. Then he slowed and I was excited as hell. Of course he would win the 600 the next week (I got to see that one live) while Dale had yet another hard wreck. And through the summer he pretty much forgot how to lose while Dale had the worst season of his career. His emotional long awaited Daytona 500 win lost its glow really quick (something that gets lost in history, '98 was definitely a low point for his career). That is why I am so heavy on the Gordon in '12 bandwagon. Do I "want" to see him win it? The thought of it doesn't make me nauseous anymore, but no, I don't. But I have seen Jeff Gordon in the situation he is in now before (good health, the sky is the limit attitude, happy family situation, hungry as hell) in the mid to late 90s. I think it is gonna happen. 23. cjs3872 posted: 02.21.2012 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, 1998 was not the worst season of Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s career. 1982 was. Incredibly, a driver that was to become among the most consistent performers in the history of the sport failed to finish 18 out of 30 races that year, meaning that he dropped out of an astonishing 60% of the races that year. That, not 1981, 1992, 1997, or 1998, was the worst season of his career, with 1981 coming in a close second, since his championship team was sold out from under him. But based on your comments, DSFF, within the next four or five years, Gordon may become just the third driver to hit triple digits in the win column, along with possibly moving into second place on the top fives list (Bobby Allsion currently ranks second with 336), and eventually into second place on the top tens list (Allison also ranks second there with 446). Last year, I predicted that Gordon would move into second place in top fives by the end of his career, and eventually top 500 top ten finishes, but you seem to think he'll accomplish this sooner than everyone thinks. And I've said this before. If Gordon's win total ever does reach triple digits, that, and his versatility (he's won at every track he's competed at except Kentucky, where they've only raced once, and Homestead, and has five or more wins at nine different tracks and four at four others, as well as nine road course wins) and incomparable record in the sport's biggest events (20 wins in crown jewel races, including at least three in each one, seven more than anyone else), he will, in my view, replace Richard Petty as the #1 driver in the sport's history. I'll move him ahead of Allison as the second-best of all-time with his next win, whenever that comes. 24. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.21.2012 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know 1998 wasn't Dale's worst statistical season. But, to me, it was the least competitive he ever was. This is evidenced by the fact that was the furthest he ever finished behind the champion in total points. This includes 1979 when he was a rookie and missed 4 races due to injury. Never in his career was he as badly outclassed by anyone as he was by Gordon in '98. Those other years you mentioned, there were reasons behind the bad stats. In 1982 he led a lot of laps but had mechanical failures eliminate him from half his races. He DNFed in his final EIGHT races that year. But he was competitive while on track. Same deal with 1983. And 1981 was a confluence of issues. First, Osterlund didn't figure out the new dowwnsized car the way Junior Johnson and Ranier's teams did. Then his ride dissolved leaving him to finish the season with Richard Childress, a severely limited independant at the time. Although Wrangller gave them money, good cars don't appear overnight. You don't go from running you Martinsville car at Talladega to winning in a few months. 1997 wasn't horrible. He didn't win, but he was competitive at times, finished in the Top 5 while still recovering from his Dega injuries the previous year which he never really let heal. And in 1992 was a looney year. He was as high as 2nd in points after the best Sears Point race ever (its true) before going on an epic 2nd half slump. Bottom line, he was never as blatently off the pace of the top guys as he was in '98. It is a hard thing to capture statistically. But that season sucked. Its kinda ironic. So many times he used crushing Daytona 500 disappointments as fuel for championship runs ('86, '90, '91, '93), but the opposite happened that year. 25. Spen posted: 02.21.2012 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I gotta agree with DSFF on this one. Sure, Dale had a rotten year in '82, but in the twelve races he acually finished, he never finished worse than tenth, and was in the top five for more than half of them. In '98 he only had three DNF's, but his average finish was 16th, because that's about where he was running every week. 26. cjs3872 posted: 02.22.2012 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But the one thing about finishing tenth in 1982, which as you mentioned Spen, was his lowest finish of that season in a race he finished, was that if you drive for a team the caliber of Bud Moore's team, tenth was about the worst you could finish if you were running at the finish, because there were only about 10-12 cars with good equipment and personnel, maximum in the early 1980s. And while Earnhardt's average runs in 1997-'98 were terrible, especially by his lofty standards, he was still beating drivers and teams with good equipment and personnel on a weekly basis, simply because there were many more of them. And also remember Earnhardt's #3 car was basically the sacrificial lamb when Childress expanded his team for the first time, and every time that organization has expanded, they're struggled badly, something that continues to this day, and they didn't really become a potent multi-car team until well after Earnhardt's death, as they really didn't becaome a potent multi-car team until about 2003. 27. cjs3872 posted: 02.22.2012 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NOTE: The post I'm about to make is a repeat of #90 in the Bud Shootout comments page. I'm reposting this comment, since I think it might be more appropriate to post here on the Daytona 500 page: Here's something to mention. Remember my late posts on the Ford 400 comments page regadring the airings of the classic Daytona 500s from the 1980s and 90s. Well, on the 1996 race re-air from yesterday (2/21) and the 1989 race re-air today (2/22), ESPN Classic showed the portions of those particular races that were edited out of the SPEED version from a decade ago. ESPN Classic showed the postions of the 1996 race that included the critical mid-race pit stop sequence that knocked John Andretti, who had been leading prior to the mid-race pitting, out of contention, and laso showed the part of the race between laps 140-150 that was also edited out of the SPEED version of that race. However, most of ESPN Classic's airing of the 1996 Daytona 500 was shown without any of CBS' on-screen graphics, including the part of the pre-race coverage that was shown, the start of the race, as well as the satandings and race summaries during the race. And ESPN Classic's version of the 1989 race, which aired for the first time today (2/22), shows the pre-race coverage, which includes the command to start engines, as well as the part opf the race betwen laps 50-75 that was edited out of the version done on SPEED's NASCAR Classics, which included the caution for the spin of Ronnie Sanders, the best racing of that day's race that followed the ensuing restart, and thehuge lap 73 crash that involved seven cars. None of that was shown on the SPEED version of the 1989 race. And of course, the ESPN Clasic version shows the original graphics, not altered in any way, meaning the CBS Sports Daytona 500 logos, as well as sponsor logos shown o the graphics, were not altered in any way. However, in both the 1989 and '96 airings on ESPN Classic, the starting grid is missing, as it was on their version of the 1985 race. However, ESPN Classic's airing of the missing parts of the 1989 and '96 races that were not shown by SPEED essentially means that, if done right, you could actually get the entire race on tape and/or DVD. Also, although it most recently aired in 2001, which was one year before SPEED started airing the old Daytona 500s for a two-year period (they should never have stopped airing them, and instead, they should've increased the window to four hours to show the complete race), the ESPN Classic version of the 1984 race also shows some of the pre-race, which focused on the pit road incident that injured Doug Richert, Neil Bonnett's crew chief, even showing the aftermath of the incident itself, as well as Chris Economaki's pre-race interview with Junior Johnson on pit road. Of note, most of the significant things that occurred between laps 100-160 are shown on the ESPN Classic version of the 1984 Daytona 500. That entire 150-mile block was edited out of the SPEED version. However, the the portion where they show the starting lineup is out of order on the ESPN Classic version of that race. However, all the races that had previously ben shown on ESPN Classic between 1976-'93 were shown as they had been last seen, though the 1980 race, which ESPN Clasic had also aired over a decade ago, was not aired. There were no newer versions of any of those races, and no other races from the time when ABC aired the race (1963-'78) were shown. Those are the one I would have liked to have seen, since they haven't aired since they first aired, except the 1976 race, though some of them, particularly the ones won by Richard Petty (except for 1973) have resurfaced on YouTube. The 1969 and 1978 race broadcasts are also on YouTube, the last time I checked. 28. cjs3872 posted: 02.22.2012 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And also, SPEED will begin to reveal the top 20 drivers of all-time on Friday. Since it is also more appropriate to mention that on the Daytona 500 page, I'll move that conversation here. Since I am, here's the list from 21st through 43rd. Remember that all Daytona 500 winners automatically get on SPEED's fantasy starting grid. Here's the list, as it is now, with notes on each selected driver: 21. Lee Petty (won inaugural race in 1959, finished fourth in only other start in 1960) 22. Mario Andretti (1967 winner, when he led 112 laps) 23. Geoff Bodine (1986 winner, when he led 101 laps, finished third three times, won qualifying race in 1990) 24. Ernie Irvan (1991 winner, runner-up in 1994, when he led a race-high 84 laps, won qualifying races in 1994, '96) 25. Joe Weatherly (five starts, 1961 runner-up, won qualifying races in 1961-'62) 26. Fireball Roberts (1962 winner, 3-time consecutive pole sitter, 3-time qualifying race winner, set record for most laps led in two consecutive Daytona 500s with 314, first driver to sweep SpeedWeeks in 1962) 27. Kurt Busch (3-time runner-up, won qualifying race in 2011, led most laps in 2007 race with 95) 28. Jimmie Johnson (2006 winner, 2-time pole sitter, won qualifying race in 2010) 29. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969 winner, 1968 runner-up, won qualifying race in 1967) 30. Terry Labonte (3-time runner-up, set qualifying race record in 1989, led most laps in 1996 race with 44) 31. Marvin Panch (1961 winner, finished fourth in '64, led most laps in 1965 race with 80) 32. Tiny Lund (1963 winner, finished fourth in 1967) 33. Ryan Newman (2008 winner, led most laps in 2011 race with 37) 34. Matt Kenseth (2009 winner, led 28 laps in 2006 race) 35. Junior Johnson (1960 winner, won qualifying races in 1964-'65) 36. Ned Jarrett (seven starts, two top fives, including third in 1963) 37. Ward Burton (2002 winner, led most laps in 2001 race with 53) 38. Jamie McMurray (2010 winner, set record for fewest laps led by a winner with just two) 39. Pete Hamilton (1970 winner, won qualifying race in 1971) 40. Ricky Rudd (29 starts, 4 top 5 finishes, including 3rd in 1981, 1983 pole sitter, won qualifying race in 2000) 41. Trevor Bayne (2011 winner, only rookie to ever win the race) 42. Derrike Cope (1990 winner, led 30 laps in 1993 race) 43. Dave Marcis (all-time records with 33 starts and 32 consecutive starts, won qualifying race in 1976) Also remember that with six non-winners chosen and all 35 winners guaranteed a spot on the list, only two non-winners remain to be chosen. Just who will they be? 29. 10andJoe posted: 02.22.2012 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a note, if normal qualifying procedures were followed (as opposed to the Duels, which the top-35 rule, quite frankly, renders pointless), the following non-top-35 drivers would have been qualified: Bayne, Raines, Stenhouse, K. Wallace, Labonte, Blaney, and M. Waltrip, with Elliott getting the PCP. 30. cjs3872 posted: 02.22.2012 - 11:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, it wouldn't surprise me if all those non-top-35 guys except Elliott make it anyway, and if Bayne and and either Tony Raines and David Stremme race their way in, Bill Elliott could use the champion's provisional because Terry Labonte would then have a qualifying time fast enough to get in. And Stenhouse is a top-35 car, as he's in the #6 car, but David Stremme is the one driver out of the top 35 you forgot about. Stremme's #30 car qualified fast enough to make it in as the third-fastest non-exempt car behind Bayne's #21 car and Raines' #26 car. My picks to race their way into the top two in each qualifier would be Bayne and two-time Daytona 500 winner Michael Waltrip in the first qualifying race and Kenny Wallace and Joe Nemechek are my choices to race their way into qualified positions in the second qualifying race, and if I'm right, Labonte would get in on speed and Elliott would get the champion's provisional. 31. cjs3872 posted: 02.22.2012 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I want to correct myself in the last post. If my prediction come true, Elliott would not make it Kenny Wallace was fourth-fastest among the non-exempt cars, not third-fastest, as Bayne, Raines, and Stremme have already time-trialed their way into the race among the non-exempt cars, with Labonte geting the champion's provisional. 32. 10andJoe posted: 02.23.2012 - 3:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant Stremme where I said Stenhouse, of course - brain burp! 33. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.23.2012 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Have I mentioned Michael McDowell is gonna kill someone yet? 34. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.23.2012 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like no Daytona 500 for Micheal Waltrip. Glad he's alright, but now we'll have to listen to him in the "Hollywood Hotel" on Sunday. 35. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.23.2012 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damnit! Now Mikey will be a huge on air presence in this race. Just cause he can't even make a freaking pit stop. Worst driver EVER!!!! 36. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.23.2012 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Huge hit for Danica, Thank God for them putting safer barriers on the inside wall. 37. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.23.2012 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, nice move by her to let go of the wheel. Certainly saved her from some sore/possibly broken wrists 38. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.23.2012 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That 14 car looks STRONG. And Tony is the 2nd best drafter out there (behind Gordon). If he can make it to lap 200 on Sunday, he'd be my pick. He had the only car in the 1st race that seemed immune to being shuffled back. Plus he's due for a 500 win. If you knock on that door long enough, it will finally open. Also, the RCR cars looked really good as usual at the plate tracks, but they got lost in the final shuffle unlike the 14. Denny looked really fast but had by far the worst fuel mileage. JGR just has too many issues for a 500 mile race. If they are in position at the end, look out. But that is a big "if". Michael McDowell would like to thank Jesus for the opportunity to cause another viscious wreck on Sunday. As a fellow Christian, he makes me cringe. 39. Anonymous posted: 02.23.2012 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Robby Gordon is in the Daytona 500. 40. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.23.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love how Speed focused all of its coverage on the transfer spots until Mikey crashed. It wasn't until after the first commercial break that any mention was made on Robby Gordon or Michael McDowell making it in. 41. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.23.2012 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now Mikey is giving us a preview of his stomach turning anaylsis we will see on Sunday. 42. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.23.2012 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maaaaaaaattttttttttt!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Fords seem to be best at hooking up for those 2 lap tandem runs. Carl did it in the 1st one but did it too soon. Of course JJ did a great job of shoving too. Ha! Matt's daughter wouldn't give him a kiss for the camera. She is a little Matt the Brat. Precious. 43. H8R posted: 02.23.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look out for the Ford teams this year. They were all over the front of these races. Obviously Stewart, Harvick, Hamlin and a couple Hendrick cars looked really strong as well, but I think as a group the Fords stood out above the rest. 44. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.23.2012 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan Smith really cut Johnson a break. Two times over the final lap Johnson cut across Smith's car, but Regan was gave room. Also, Biffle took a big risk for a man who is already locked into the front row. It was daring of him to go up and try to block/pick-up Matt Kenseth. I don't know whether it was a smart move because he was trying to win the race, or if it was a dumb move because he nearly crashed his primary car, vacated a front row spot and took out a teammate. 45. 10andJoe posted: 02.23.2012 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With the Duels now over, I decided to take a look at what the Daytona 500 starting grid would look like if the Duels actually meant something. I.E., if the top 35 rule was tossed out, and just finishing in the top 14/15 got you in the show for sure instead of just the "two not yet in". Of course, some drivers might drive differently in that case, but it's an interesting comparison nontheless. For this, I've gone with the 4+1 provisional system, i.e. top 30 from front row+Duels, 31-38 next fastest cars, 39-42 provisionals based on 2011 owner points, and 43rd either a past champion or the next car in owner points if no past champion needs the spot. Also, since it was a product of the top-35 rule, I've presumed that the 36 kept its owner points and the 10 took the 14's 2011 points, but that made no difference to the final result. So, without further ado: 1. 99 - Carl Edwards (F) 2. 16 - Greg Biffle (F) 3. 14 - Tony Stewart (C) 4. 17 - Matt Kenseth (F) 5. 88 - Dale Earnhardt Jr. (C) 6. 78 - Regan Smith (C) 7. 9 - Marcos Ambrose (F) 8. 48 - Jimmie Johnson (C) 9. 31 - Jeff Burton (C) 10. 33 - Elliott Sadler (C) 11. 98 - Michael McDowell (F) 12. 20 - Joey Logano (T) 13. 29 - Kevin Harvick (C) 14. 18 - Kyle Busch (T) 15. 22 - A.J. Allmendinger (D) 16. 24 - Jeff Gordon (C) 17. 7 - Robby Gordon (D) 18. 39 - Ryan Newman (C) 19. 1 - Jamie McMurray (C) 20. 5 - Kasey Kahne (C) 21. 6 - Ricky Stenhouse Jr. (F) 22. 55 - Mark Martin (T) 23. 21 - Trevor Bayne (F) 24. 36 - Dave Blaney (C) 25. 2 - Brad Keselowski (D) 26. 56 - Martin Truex Jr (T) 27. 34 - David Ragan (F) 28. 51 - Kurt Busch (C) 29. 43 - Aric Almirola (F) 30. 15 - Clint Bowyer (T) 31. 13 - Casey Mears (F) 32. 27 - Paul Menard (C) 33. 42 - Juan Pablo Montoya (C) 34. 26 - Tony Raines (F) 35. 30 - David Stremme (T) 36. 10 - Danica Patrick (C) 37. 09 - Kenny Wallace (T) 38. 32 - Terry Labonte (F) 39. 11 - Denny Hamlin (T) (Prov) 40. 93 - David Reutimann (T) (Prov) 41. 83 - Landon Cassill (T) (Prov) 42. 47 - Bobby Labonte (T) (Prov) 43. 97 - Bill Elliott (T) (PC Prov) --- 44. 40 - Michael Waltrip (T) 45. 87 - Joe Nemechek (T) 46. 38 - David Gilliland (F) 47. 37 - Mike Wallace (F) 48. 23 - Robert Richardson Jr (T) 49. 49 - J.J. Yeley (T) 46. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.23.2012 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie practically gave Kenseth the win in the duel by coming down two and a half lanes into Smith with absolutely nothing to gain from it. Nice one Mr. Five Time. Also, I've been hearing Michael Waltrip is buying Robby's spot in the 500. If that's true, then that's pitiful. After his showing today, he doesn't deserve a spot in the 500, let alone a cup ride. 47. Michael McDowell's #1 Fan posted: 02.23.2012 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 48. 10andJoe posted: 02.23.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NadeauFan91 - Pitiful or not, I'm sure Robby will be laughing all the way to the bank. 49. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.23.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) True that, and he's saving us the torture of having to hear Waltrip in the broadcast. 50. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.23.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed NadeauFan. I'd rather have Mikey on track than in the booth. 51. cjs3872 posted: 02.23.2012 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My question is how many start-and-parks are we going to have in the Daytona 500? After all, there were five start-and-parks in the qualifying races, including both BK Racing cars. And is anyone surprised that Regan Smith cut Johnson that break. After all, Smith is one of the most conservative drivers in the series, and he's not willing to cause trouble, and Johnson and the others know it, so they race guys like Smith the way he did. And on the other hand, did anyone notice that near the end of the first qualifying race, Trevor Bayne seemed to move over and let Michael McDowell pass him, even if it meant about 25 places on the Daytona 500 starting grid. After all, if not for Bayne's charity, there would have been a chance that McDowell might not have qualified for the Daytona 500. Bayne might have earned a top-15 starting position, but will start 40th instead, due to his charity. And DSFF, the Fords have much superior cooling systems, so they can do the tandem draft longer than can the other makes. In fact, it was watching Matt Kenseth push for practically the entire first qualifying race last year that Trevor Bayne figured out he could do the same thing, and also was among the first to figure out how to do it, and in last year's plate races, he was undeniably the best at pushing, hands down. If you don't believe me, just ask Robby Gordon, who Bayne might have pushed to victory last year in the fall Talladega race, if Robby hadn't fallen victim to mechanical problems late in that race, and the 7/21 combo with Trevor pushing was the fastest combination in that race. And even though the push-draft won't be as prevalent in this Sunday's race, don't be surprised if Robby hunts out Trevor and those two work together, since Bayne, even though he's the defending Daytona 500 champion, more than likely doesn't have a drafting partner, since he's a single-car team, though Casey Mears' Germain Racing #13 car is another possibility for him. 52. 10andJoe posted: 02.23.2012 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872 - It's possible the 26 might S&P. I'm not sure any other cars will though; as mentioned on the Duel On page, the BK Racing team did so because they were already locked in and didn't have backup cars, but they've declared to avoid S&Ping in the points races. Nemechek traditionally runs the full races at Daytona, and McDowell has sponsorship to run full races for at least the first five races last I heard. That leaves Stremme as a question mark. "And on the other hand, did anyone notice that near the end of the first qualifying race, Trevor Bayne seemed to move over and let Michael McDowell pass him, even if it meant about 25 places on the Daytona 500 starting grid." Er, not really - I agree he probably would have pushed McDowell had it come to that, but McDowell was ahead of Bayne for most of the race; what really surprised me was Bayne getting shuffled out to the point Robby got in. 53. Michael McDowell's #1 Fan posted: 02.23.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) don't worry about where bayne's starting, he started in back last year, and staring positions at daytona and talladega are meaningless anyway. 54. cjs3872 posted: 02.23.2012 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, it's clear to me lookig at the highlights that late in the race, when Bayne was ahead of McDowell, he appeared to move over for him and move striaght to the back of that pack. And as for dropping behind Robby Gordon, have you forgotten how good a drafting partner each of those two is for the other? Remember that, since Bayne was without a drafting partner for last fall's race at Talladega due to the Ford manufacturer orders handed down by Roush (Carl Edwards originally intended to draft with Bayne in that race), that Bayne, as a single-car team driver, had to find someone else to draft with at Talladega, and found Robby Gordon. And actually, those two also worked well with each other in last year's Daytona 500, as Bayne pushed Robby to the lead on more than one occasion. That's why I said that it wouldn't surprise me if Robby dropped back early in the race just to find Trevor. And since neither has a teammate, I wouldn't be surprised if Robby and Trevor have already made a deal to draft with each other, even though Robby's in a Dodge (the only non-Penske Dodge) and of course, Trevor's in that Wood Brothers' Ford. Now Bayne has another potential drafting partner in Casey Mears, now that the #13 car is also a Ford, as well as being a single-car team. Robby Gordon and Casey Mears are Trevor Bayne's only real hopes for drafting partners in the Daytona 500, the way I see it. However, it also wouldn't surprise me if Trevor just hangs out in the back all day, along with some of the veteran drivers, like Jeff Gordon, Kurt Busch, Mark Martin, and the Labonte brothers. Also, with Bill Elliott and Michael Waltrip bothfailing to qualify for the Daytona 500, that means that Gordon will be the only multiple Daytona 500 winner (three wins) in the field for Sunday's race, as the other seven Daytona 500 winners in the field are one-time winners. This marks the first time since 1993-'95 that there will be just one multiple Daytona 500 winner in the field. (Elliott was the only multiple winner in the race in the first three Daytona 500s after Richard Petty's retirement, and there had always been at least two, and as many as five multiple winners in the Daytona 500 since 1996.) 55. cjs3872 posted: 02.24.2012 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All posters, remember that later this evening, The SPEED Report will reveal drivers 13-20 on their Great American Grid of the 43 greatest Daytona 500 drivers of all-time, and the two remaining non-winners will most likely be revealed. Also, drivers 7-12 will be revealed Saturday, and the top six on Sunday morning. Also, I'll be posting them when they're announced, and list notations on them, and list them with the others that have already been mentioned. And next week, I'll be releasing my list of the top 43 Daytona 500 drivers, and not every winner will be listed, though the one that didn't make will be listed in the honorable mention section. Also, the recent quyalifying race victories of Tony Stewart (his third, if he's mentioned, which he should be) and Matt Kenseth will be noted, as well as the fact that Kenseth now holds the qualifying race record of 194.175 MPH, which was set yesterday (2/23). 56. Smiff_99 posted: 02.24.2012 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh jesus, Danica's on the pole for the NW race......I actually have no beef with her or anything, but because of this, Fox is gonna be driving her down our throats EVEN MORE than they already were going to. yikes. 57. cjs3872 posted: 02.24.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why would FOX be jamming Danica down our throats for sitting on the pole for the Nationwide, if they're not even doing the Nationwide race? ESPN? That's a different story, since they are doing the Nationwide race. And besides, I don't know who first said it, but someone once said that you could put a trained monkey in the car to qualify at Daytona and Talladega, it wouldn't make any difference. Now if she won the pole for the Nationwide race at, say Phoenix or Las Vegas, it would be a much diferent story. 58. Smiff_99 posted: 02.24.2012 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dude, think about it....they're obviously gonna reference it a thousand times on Sunday, whether the NNS race was on Fox or NOT..... And to any of us here on Racing Reference (or anyybody within the sport itself) it's *clearly* not a major accomplishment. My point here is that this will be blown out of proportion just like everything else Danica-related. Fox's broadcast of the Shootout made it quite obvious that they were gonna make Danica THE focal point of their Speedweeks coverage. Surely someone agrees with me on this..... 59. Eric posted: 02.24.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is 20 to 13 for Top 43 Daytona 500 Drivers: 20.) Donnie Allison 19.) Davey Allison 18.) Benny Parsons 17.) Tony Stewart 16.) Darrell Waltrip 15.) Michael Waltrip 14.) Fred Lorenzen 13.) Sterling Marlin 60. cjs3872 posted: 02.24.2012 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smiff_99, who doesn't agree that Danica will be a major focus of the coverage of BOTH races this weekend? Now, SPEED has just announced the drivers in positions 13-20 in their Great American Starting Grid. Now, here is the entire list, as it is right now: 13. Sterling Marlin (2-time consecutive winner, one of only three to win two consecutive years, 1992 pole sitter, 3-time qualifying race winner, led most laps in 1995 victory with 105) 14. Fred Lorenzen (1965 winner, 2-time runner-up, won qualifying race in 1967, led most laps in 1963 race with 77) 15. Michael Waltrip (2-time winner, 2-time qualifying race winner, led most laps in 2003 win with 68) 16. Darrell Waltrip (1989 winner, 1979 runner-up, finished third three consecutive years, 5-time qualifying race winner) 17. Tony Stewart (2004 runner-up, 3-time qualifying race winner, led most laps in 2004-'05, one of only four drivers to lead the most laps in consecutive years) 18. Benny Parsons (1975 winner, 2-time runner-up, 1982 pole sitter, won qualifying race in 1987, only driver ever to finish in the top three four consecutive years) 19. Davey Allison (1992 winner, when he led 127 laps, won pole and quaifying race in 1991 20. Donnie Allison (2-time pole sitter, led most laps in 1969 and '79 races, won qualifying race in 1980) Previously listed: 21. Lee Petty (won inaugural race in 1959, finished fourth in only other start in 1960) 22. Mario Andretti (1967 winner, when he led 112 laps) 23. Geoff Bodine (1986 winner, when he led 101 laps, finished third three times, won qualifying race in 1990) 24. Ernie Irvan (1991 winner, runner-up in 1994, when he led a race-high 84 laps, won qualifying races in 1994, '96) 25. Joe Weatherly (five starts, 1961 runner-up, won qualifying races in 1961-'62) 26. Fireball Roberts (1962 winner, 3-time consecutive pole sitter, 3-time qualifying race winner, set record for most laps led over two consecutive Daytona 500s with 314, first driver to sweep SpeedWeeks in 1962) 27. Kurt Busch (3-time runner-up, won qualifying race in 2011, led most laps in 2007 race with 95) 28. Jimmie Johnson (2006 winner, 2-time pole sitter, won qualifying race in 2010) 29. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969 winner, 1968 runner-up, won qualifying race in 1967) 30. Terry Labonte (3-time runner-up, won qualifying race in 1989, led most laps in 1996 race with 44) 31. Marvin Panch (1961 winner, finished fourth in 1964, led most laps in the 1965 race with 80) 32. Tiny Lund (1963 winner, finished fourth in 1967) 33. Ryan Newman (2008 winner, led most laps in 2011 race with 37) 34. Matt Kenseth (2009 winner, set qualifying race record in 2012) 35. Junior Johnson (1960 winner, when he led a race-high 67 laps, won qualifying races in 1964-'65) 36. Ned Jarrett (seven starts, two top fives, including third in 1963) 37. Ward Burton (2002 winner, led most laps in 2001 race with 53) 38. Jamie McMurray (2010 winner, set record for fewest laps led by a winner with just two) 39. Pete Hamilton (1970 winner, won qualifying race in 1971) 40. Ricky Rudd (29 starts, 4 top 5s, including 3rd in 1981, 1983 pole sitter, won qualifying race in 2000) 41. Trevor Bayne (2011 winner, only rookie ever to win the race) 42. Derrike Cope (1990 winner, led 30 laps in 1993) 43. Dave Marcis (all-time records with 33 starts and 32 consecutive starts, won qualifying race in 1976) Needless to say, there is one huge miscarrige of justice with today's picks. Benny Parsons 18th and behind Tony Stewart and both of the Waltrip brothers? And with the selections of Tony Stewart and Donnie Allison, that means all eight non-winners have been chosen. All 12 drivers yetvto be picked all won the race at least once. And I agree with putting Michael Waltrip ahead of older brother Darrell on this list. Darrell was undoubtedly the better driver, but Michael was, in my mind, better than Darrell in the Daytona 500. 61. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.24.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Fox's broadcast of the Shootout made it quite obvious that they were gonna make Danica THE focal point of their Speedweeks coverage." 100% correct Smiff, the FOX team is practically falling over themselves covering Danicamania this Speedweeks. 62. 10andJoe posted: 02.24.2012 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As an aside, looks like some dough changed hands after Truck Series qualifying to get Reutimann and Derek White in the field after they intially DNQ'd. 63. Bronco posted: 02.24.2012 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My predicted top 12 for the Great American Grid. 1) Richard Petty 2) Cale Yarborough 3) Bobby Allison 4) Jeff Gordon 5) Dale Earnhardt 6) Dale Jarrett 7) Bill Elliott 8) Buddy Baker 9) David Pearson 10) Dale Earnhardt Jr 11) AJ Foyt 12) Kevin Harvick 64. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.24.2012 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anybody else depressed as hell at seeing Mark in those commercials with Mikey? Man I wish he would go away gracefully. After a career of heart, determination, success, and unparalleled class, I don't want to see that shit. I honestly don't want to watch the NWide race due to Danicamania. But me and my buddy will be watching it. We'd planned a weekend of Daytona. 65. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.24.2012 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good Lord these wrecks are just sickening to watch. I've never seen cars. (Or in this case Trucks) just go flying towards the walls, seemingly gaining speed, attracted like magnets. 66. cjs3872 posted: 02.24.2012 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, DSFF, counting the most recent crash, which involved 10 or 11 trucks, I believe there have now about 75 cars/trucks involved in accidents this week, going back to Shootout practice last Friday, if not more. I don't know exactly how many cars/trucks have been involved in wrecks, and there's still one GWC in the Truck race, as well as a Nationwide race and a Cup race, so the number of cars/trucks involved in crashes during SpeedWeeks is likely to go well over 100. Heck we might even reach that tomorrow. And by the way, even though SPEED ranks Benny Parsons just 18th in the biggest travesty regarding this list yet, I have him in my top ten, based on his Daytona 500 record of one win, being the first driver ever to finish in each of the top five positions, and setting a record for finishing in the top three four consecutive years from 1975-'78, and even winning a pole position (1982) and winning a qualifying race (1987). In 20 starts, Parsons finished in the top five eight times. Only a handful of drivers have more. 67. LordLowe posted: 02.24.2012 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the only good thing about this years Daytona 500 will be when it ends. 68. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.24.2012 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would like to congratulate CNN Anchor John King on a Truck Series win at Daytona... In all seriousness, great teamwork from Peters and King and way to hose Todd Bodine, Sauter's comments about Todd's driving over his head ring true again. All I could think about was the other John King every time the SPEED team said his name. Regardless, what a hell of a run!! 69. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.24.2012 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anybody else depressed as hell at seeing Mark in those commercials with Mikey? Man I wish he would go away gracefully. After a career of heart, determination, success, and unparalleled class, I don't want to see that shit." Yes DSFF, it is very low of Mark. My father is a die-hard Mark Martin fan from the Stroh's Roush car days and he is saddened by how far Mark has fallen. At least with GoDaddy and prior sponsors (With one exception: Viagra) Mark Martin didn't "whore" himself to promote sponsors. Hell, what happened to the 2000 Mark Martin Gatorade 'sweating' commercials, which were offensive to no one? Mikey talks throughout the entire advertisement with Mark playing lapdog in the same fashion as David Reuitimann before him. 70. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.25.2012 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) BP never got the credit as a driver he deserved. Not only was he a champion (the biggest underdog champ not from Greenfield, Wisconsin) but he had over 20 race wins with stunning versatility. He had wins on short tracks, road courses, 1 milers, 1.5 milers, Darlington, the flat 2.5 mile Ontario and of course Daytona. All while never driving the best equipment. Or close to it. Though in all fairness his excellent broadcasting work kinda overshadowed his career. A lot like Ned Jarrett. Overall he was the Matt Kenseth of his era. Fitting they both had one win championships that get discounted unfairly. The biggest difference is that Matt SUCKS at the road courses. Benny won Riverside. 71. 18fan posted: 02.25.2012 - 2:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't believe how high Harvick is going to end up in SPEED's grid. But we know he is one of their darlings and SPEED/FOX will try to make you believe he's an all time great. I don't understand how he can be above Sterling Marlin, who was one of the best restrictor plate racers ever and won back-to-back Daytona 500s, a feat that only Hall of Famers Richard Petty and Cale Yarborough had previously managed and nobody's done it since. 72. 10andJoe posted: 02.25.2012 - 6:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a note, the #30 now has a sponsor for the race (Jeg's). That leaves the 26 as the only unsponsored car in the field, I believe. 73. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, remember that Kevin Harvick, who I agree doesn't yet belong up there with the likes of A.J. Foyt, David Pearson, Bill Elliott, and some of the others in the top dozen (he might in a few years, but not now), not only has that win in 2007, but has been a consistently dominant factor in the Daytona 500, finishing second in 2009, fourth twice, leading the most laps in the 2010 race, and would have been a definate factor had his engine not blown after 50 miles in last year's race. But probably a day or two after this year's 50, I'l list my top 43, and it will look very different from SPEED's version, I can promise you that. And DSFF, one reason why Parsons doesn't get the credit he deserves is that, like Ned Jarrett and Terry Labonte, Parsons was a very conservative driver who rarely took chances, or got into trouble. the only difference is that Parsons lucked into his Daytona win in 1975, and the other two never won the Daytona 500. Parsons would never have made the kind of moves that would have won a Daytona 500, either, but had David Pearson spin out when he and Cale Yarborough tangled late in the 1975 race, or he would never have won the Daytona 500, either. And remember that Parsons' 1973 championship had as much to do with David Pearson's 11 wins taking wins away from Richard Petty and Cale Yarborough as much as it had to do with his own performance. But Parsons was the Ned Jarrett or Terry Labonte of his day. And it's odd that many of the younger drivers coming up, starting with Kasey Kahne (which is why he's never likely to ever win at Daytona) have been of the conservative mold. Think about it. Except for the Busch brothers, most of the younger drivers that have come up in the last seven to ten years have been the more conservative type. Kahne, Regan Smith, Paul Menard, Trevor Bayne, Landon Cassill, and a few other younger drivers have all showed that they're more out of the Ned Jarrett-Parsons-Labonte mold of conservative racing, rather than the Earnhardt mold of all-out aggressive driving. That's why I think guys like Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., Justin Allgaier, and Austin Dillon, who are of the Earnhardt mold, have a much higher ceiliing than any of those other younger drivers. And I still think that's why Cassill still has problems finding competent teams that will take him on, and I still think that's one reason why Bayne has consistently had problems finding sponsors. When sponsors think that a certain driver drives too conservatively on the track, which in turn results in results not as good as they should be, that doesn't bode well for their careers. 74. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.25.2012 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The latest weather forecast for Sunday and Monday seems to be a cause for concern. 75. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OldSchoolNascarDude1, a rain-shortened race would be exactly what the teams would like, because of all the cars that have been wrecked so far this week, so a race like the ones from 1965 (133 laps) and 2003 (109 laps) may be just what these teams are looking for. But they have always got the Daytona 500 in, one way or the other. 76. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.25.2012 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Whitt, you are about to be drug through the "Cole's" (clever pun, yay me!) for making the ssame mistake that has been made over and over again in tandem racing, but you took out Princess Danica. Of course then you got spun by KyBu on pit road, and it is somehow the crew chief's fault. You will be given none of the sympathy of the media darlings. Like June ONCE AGAIN having pit road issues in getting into his pit, yet it is his crew's fault for not having a better sign. Like June has no responsibility for knowing WHERE HIS FREAKING PIT STALL IS. Hell of a save by Richardson. But ESPN says it is "luck". KyBu made similar saves in the Shootout and is proclaimed as the racing messiah. God I hate ESPN. And the Waltrips. 77. 18fan posted: 02.25.2012 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tandem racing still sucks. 78. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.25.2012 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I definitely agree about aggressive drivers having a higher ceiling. A perfect example is comparing the career trajectories of Keselowski and Logano. They came in at the same time, and although Logano had a much better opportunity initially, Brad has exploded while this year you will never see a Cup telecast without hearing "hot seat" anytime you hear the words "Joey" or "Logano". Meanwhile Brad is under contract with his organization and BIG $$$ sponsorship thru 2015. 79. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.25.2012 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed 18fan, this NWide race is reaffirming that I would rather be poisoned by the pack than tandem racing. It is much less painful for me. 80. LordLowe posted: 02.25.2012 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Either way Restrictor Plate racing has become a joke and a glorified stunt show I think the only good thing about this racing is when it ends. 81. LordLowe posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In the words of the late Benny Parsons Man oh Man 82. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeez, could ESPN be any more disappointed that Buescher won? Congrats to the kid, he did a hell of a job weaving through that. Only 21? Good future. 83. Anonymous posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bueschwacked! 84. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Heck Yeah James Buescher!! That's two first time winners thus far, could be an omen for the 500 tomorrow(I'm looking at you Allmendinger, go get 'em!!) 85. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm just glad ESPN stuck around long enough to get the opinions of the drivers involved in the last crash. Oh, wait? They had four hours to get this race in. They knew of the potential red flags and long caution periods. They should have planned this out months ago, so that the green flag would have waived about 30 minutes earlier. 86. LordLowe posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) at Oldschoolnascardude: and I am annoyed with you for not fixing the audio problem with the 1997 Milwaukee truck race 87. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I think that after all the close calls he had in the Truck series last year and not winning for one reason or another, that lady luck decided to smile on James Buescher for once. I mean, if Brad Keselowski's momentum isn't broken, he beats Buescher to the caution, but it was broken, anbd Buescher sailed right by him to win the race. It also marks the first time since 2001, when Randy LaJoie won for a third time (he also won it in 1997 and '99)that a non-Cup driver has won this race. A pleasant change, in that the three most dominant drivers in this race's history were all Cup stars. The winningest drivers in the history of this race are Dale Earnhardt, Sr. (7 wins-1982,'86, '90-'94), Tony Stewart (6 wins-2005-'06, '08-'11), Darrell Waltrip (5 wins-1978-'79, '83-'84, '89). Other ultra-successful drivers in this race over the years have been Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (3 consecutive wins-2002-'04), Randy LaJoie (3 wins-1997, '99, 2001), and the race's first-ever three-time winner, Bill Dennis, who won this race in 1972, '73, and '74 for Junie Donlavey, which also made Dennis the first driver ever to win this race three consecutive years. And by the way, with James Buescher's win, nobody wil have a chance to become the sixth driver to win the 300 and the Daytona 500 in the same year. The five drivers to accomplish that feat are LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969), Bobby Allison (1988), Darrell Waltrip (1989), Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004), and Kevin Harvick (2007). Buescher's win also means that, for the second straight year, that the winner of this race will get no points, as Buescher's signed up to run for the Truck series championship. The points leader after this race will be Eliott Sadler, who finished third. 88. 18fan posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thankfully all the drivers who hit hard in that last wreck are okay. Some of them, especially Kyle Busch, hit really hard. 89. Eric posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OldSchoolNascarDude1, What do you expect out of ESPN? That network has problems for years and the people that run ESPN hasn't treat racing coverage as priority for a long time. When ESPN lost the television rights to NASCAR, that started the change they treat racing in terms of shows like RPM Tonight with NASCAR not allowing them on the race track for interviews not helping matters. At the same time ESPN was getting shows that have reporters that focus on stick and ball sports, not racing. Those people don't really known racing and treat it like an unwanted stepchild. 90. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Other good examples of agression winning over conservative: Smoke and Sadler were rookies in '99. Although Stewart had infinitely better equipment, talent, and confidence, one became a legend, the other irrelevent. In 2002 Newman beat out JJ for ROY, but make no mistake about it, although he displays a clean image publically, JJ is ferocious out there. He has run circles around Ryan ever since. In 2003 Jamie Mac beat Biffle for rookie honors, but Biffle's balls to the wall style has tripled Jamie's win total. Second best example: Jeff Gordon and Bobby Labonte were rookies in '93. Although Bobby would win many races and a Winston Cup, Gordon (and his deceptively aggressive driving style) has ascended to NASCAR's stratosphere. Best example: 1979 rookies Earnhardt and Terry Labonte. Each started their careers with new owners with lots of money. Dale's owner balied after 2 and 1/2 years while Terry's hung in there, hired Dale Inman, and allowed a champion to develop. Then, the equipment Terry had from '94-'99 surpassed anything Dale ever drove. None of that mattered. Dale bullied his way to the Mount Rushmore of driver, the guy who many consider to be the best ever. Terry allowed himself to be bullied, never fighting back, and got creamed on the track by his teammate, the aggressiive Gordon, and it all culminated with the '99 Bristol Night Race. 91. 18fan posted: 02.25.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The last lap wreck showed problems with tandem racing. Ricky Stenhouse ended up hooking Kyle because going low was the only way for him to avoid the wreck. If he had backed off, whoever was pushing him would have shoved Stenhouse straight into the wreck. With the inability to see while being the pusher, wrecks like that can get bigger because of the vision issues. 92. Eric posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, You forgot to mention Harry Gant since he became a cup rookie at the age of 39 in the same year Earnhardt and Terry Labonte were rookies. There is one example that proves being a conservative driver is better than being an aggressive driver. Geoff Bodine and Mark Martin were in the same rookie class in 1982, but Mark had the better cup career despite each not having a cup championship. Geoff was rookie of the year, Daytona 500 winner, but had a lot less wins than Mark in Cup along with a bunch of did not finishes. Mark was in the hunt for the championship more than Geoff Bodine was. 93. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #86 My bad, man. I honestly don't know why it won't work. It works fine on my DVD, but every time I upload it the sound is gone. Maybe today is karma on me for not getting that fixed. 94. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anybody else depressed as hell at seeing Mark in those commercials with Mikey? Man I wish he would go away gracefully. After a career of heart, determination, success, and unparalleled class, I don't want to see that shit." Me too, it's actually sad seeing a driver with a great history like Mark's sticking around and only being famous because of what he accomplished in the past while becoming another MWR clone. I could barely stand seeing Reut and Truex in those commercials too. As for the Nationwide race, James Buescher's win today was about as fluky as it gets (how often do 10 cars in front of you crash and you get the win?) but I am happy for him. If he can keep momentum going, this may be the race where it springboarded. 95. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #89 I agree with you. My biggest problem was with ESPN's inability to plan ahead. They knew way ahead of time that a basketball game was starting at 4 PM. Nascar had a four hour time slot, but still failed to have time for an adequate post-race show. That disappoints me. 96. Rusty posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They could've put the post race coverage on another one of ESPN's million channels. But I'll save my Nationwide comments for when the page is up for that race. 97. 10andJoe posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It also marks the first time since 2001, when Randy LaJoie won for a third time (he also won it in 1997 and '99)that a non-Cup driver has won this race." But he still wasn't eligible for points in it. ;) Also, Tony Raines has now picked up sponsorship for the 500. 98. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The last lap wreck showed problems with tandem racing. Ricky Stenhouse ended up hooking Kyle because going low was the only way for him to avoid the wreck. If he had backed off, whoever was pushing him would have shoved Stenhouse straight into the wreck. With the inability to see while being the pusher, wrecks like that can get bigger because of the vision issues." They have vision issues with pack racing. But its not like that HASN"T been brought up before. -_- 99. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's the bad part about the two-car tandems, the fact that only the driver in front can see what's ahead of him and the pusher has to trust and depend on that guy in front of him to drive him around the whole track without getting him wrecked. 100. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, you forgot one major factor in that last lap crash, and that is blocking. Sure, the tandem aspect may have made it so the entire top ten would up begin involved in that crash, but the crash itself would not have happened if not for blocking. With Tony Stewart and Elliott Sadler making a move next to the wall, Trevor Bayne, following Joey Logano, blocked Stewart. At that very instant, Logano and Bayne were themselves being blocked by Kurt Busch. As a result, a huge crash ensued. I think NASCAR should do something they should have done a long time ago, and do something about blocking, because that is what caused that last lap crash. And of course, a few laps earlier, David Ragan, for the second time during SpeedWeeks, caused a huge crash by making a stupid move (surprise, surprise), trying get between Sam Hornish and whoever was inside him. Ragan was being pushed by Bayne, but as the momentum of Ricky Stenhouse and Hornish slowed a bit, Ragan tried to go four-wide through the middle and caused the first huge crash. And why were the Roush Fords teaming up with the Penske Dodges? Hornish was teaming with Stenhouse, and Bayne was teaming up with Brad Keselowski when he trying to get his two laps back. And the finish was a truly bad break for Bayne, who was one of the principals that caused the huge crash on the final lap, as he may only have two more races in the #60 car before that team may be shut down, leading to Bayne's possible release from Roush for the sane reason he was let go by Michael Waltrip, that reason being lack of sponsorship, which may possibly open the #21 Wood Brothers car up for Ricky Stenhouse, Jr, possibly as soon as March or April, definately by season's end. 101. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, in that post mentioning Buescher's win and the history it made (making him the first non-Cup driver in 11 years to win the 300 at Daytona), I did bring up the fact that James Buescher would not earn any points for his win, and why. 102. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.25.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good points Eric. I should have mentioned that the aggression has to be tempered at some point. Geoff had trouble reigning himself in when necessary. Also a good point about Harry Gant. He was another one of Earnhardt's regular victims. 103. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.25.2012 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Elliott Sadler and Timmy Hill will be the only two drivers who finished in the top 10 today to even be in the top 10 in the unofficial Nationwide Series point standings. That's pretty wild. 104. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 02.25.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since i'm bored i looked up HOW many cars from last year were taken out (crash related and non-crash related, includes S&Ps): 2011 Budshootout: 10 cars (9 crashed, 1 engine) 2011 Duel #1: 2 cars (both non-crash related) 2011 Duel #2: 6 cars (5 crashed, 1 engine) 2011 Truck race: 14 cars (10 crashed, 4 non-related to crashes) 2011 Nwide race: 11 cars (5 crashed, 6 non-related to crashes) 2011 Cup race: 13 cars (10 crashed, 3 non-related to crashes) Note: This tally was accumulated by using the status as determined by RR.info. total: 56 cars (i just double checked an article on SPEED.com, similar # to this year as by SPEED.com.) 2012 Budshootout: 12 cars (all crash related) 2012 Duel #1: 9 cars (5 crash related, 4 non-crash related) 2012 Duel #2: 3 cars (all non-crash related) 2012 Truck race: 18 cars (all crash related, yeah that's right) 2012 N'wide race: 18 cars (14 crash related, 4 non-crash related) Note #2: done as the first list. total: 60 total (SPEED was off by 4) This isn't meant to prove anything, i was just bored........i just found a project for my Math 102 class. Amazing how #s can make you think. :-) Everyones mileage will vary. 105. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Note to all fellow posters: The drivers ranking seventh through 12th on SPEED's Great American Starting Grid are going to be revealed in the next hour. Who will be where? And this fantasy grid will be completed tomorrow morning. I'l list them as quickly as I can. (Eric beat me last night in terms of listing drivers 13-20.) 106. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru WRX STi, you forgot the practice carnage that has wiped out at least six cup Cars, as well as the carnage at the end of the ARCA race, which wiped out another 15-20 cars. Actually, the way I count it, there have already been over 100 cars/trucks involved in accidents this week. Not all of them have been sidelined due to the wrecks, but there have already been over 100 cars/trucks involved in accidents, with the Daytona 500 still to be run. For instance, there were more than 20 cars involved in wrecks late in today's Nationwide race alone. And with rain in the forecast, it might be a wild, and possibly shortened Daytona 500 to end a forgettable SpeedWeeks. 107. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 02.25.2012 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ i was just going by race results. If your running your running, your out, your out. 108. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So what you were referring to was cars officially out of the race, not necesarrily just cars involved in crashes, 1995 Subaru WRX Sti. 109. cjs3872 posted: 02.25.2012 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So, the drivers seventh through 12th on SPEED's Great American Grid have been revealed. Here's the full list, as it stands now. Remember that my list is coming next week. 7. Bill Elliott 8. Dale Jarrett 9. David Pearson 10. A.J. Foyt 11. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 12. Kevin Harvick 13. Sterling Marlin 14. Fred Lorenzen 15. Michael Waltrip 16. Darrell Waltrip 17. Tony Stewart 18. Benny Parsons 19. Davey Allison 20. Donnie Allison 21. Lee Petty 22. Mario Andretti 23. Geoff Bodine 24. Ernie Irvan 25. Joe Weatherly 26. Fireball Roberts 27. Kurt Busch 28. Jimmie Johnson 29. LeeRoy Yarbrough 30. Terry Labonte 31. Marvin Panch 32. Tiny Lund 33. Ryan Newman 34. Matt Kenseth 35. Junior Johnson 36. Ned Jarrett 37. Ward Burton 38. Jamie McMurray 39. Pete Hamilton 40. Ricky Rudd 41. Trevor Bayne 42. Derrike Cope 43. Dave Marcis 110. Bronco posted: 02.25.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So, the drivers seventh through 12th on SPEED's Great American Grid have been revealed. Here's the full list, as it stands now. Remember that my list is coming next week." The top 6 has to be: 1) Richard Petty 2) Cale Yarborough 3) Dale Earnhardt Sr 4) Bobby Allison 5) Jeff Gordon 6) Buddy Baker 111. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.25.2012 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully, the weather will break long enough to get the entire race in, otherwise the rain will rain (no pun intended) on the parade. The thought of a Monday Daytona 500 is... well, there is a reason no body alive has heard of a Super Bowl on Monday. We don't need to see a repeat of 2003 and 2009, coming on the heels of a turnaround 2011. Crossed fingers and praying for a Sunday 200 lap or more race. 112. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.25.2012 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not really sure what will be a better Daytona 500. I will stick with my predictions from the last week after Speedweeks that the Daytona 500 this year will be amongst the worst we have seen since: as cjs3872 said, '...there may be only 14-17 cars running, and only eight or nine healthy cars running at the finish if nothing changes, in terms of the rules. The reason is not so much what you saw so far as the left rear bumper getting touched, but rather other circumstances that can lead to that, including the rapid closing rate, the fact that the drivers have no way of communicating with each other, and let's not forget that with the racing back in packs, blocking will be a huge issue, as well, and that is likely to cause major wrecks, as well.' With the insanity from the First duel race, the Truck, and Nationwide race, and the fact that there has been NO rule changes we very well may have, and I may hate to say this, the WORST Daytona 500 in history. This could turn into a fiasco worse then 2001 or 2010. I am sincerely and severely worried. Even a rain-shortened event may turn out disastrous. The only thing I can hope for is as was stated above a giant version of the Big one early, or two reguarly sized big ones early. Yet even this could prove bad. Every time I've prayed this week, I've prayed for the drivers and fans alike and for their protection. Moments of truth tomorrow folks. We'll see. It could blow over as nothing. I want a full 200 lap race myself though. 113. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.26.2012 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I disagree with everyone blaming the carnage on the racing package. A lot of it has to do with track etiquette and respect. These guys show none for each other. Fans want to see beating and banging, that's fine. But, most of these drivers act like they are playing a video game. Thank God that safety is better than ever. The drivers apparently must feel too safe with some of the stupid and ridiculous moves they are making. I agree this package is hard to deal with, but it's not the only reason. Restrictor plate racing was fine for years without cars having to hook up. I remember 10-15 years ago when drivers would just give each other a little tap for bump drafting and that was considered aggressive. Wow, how far has it evolved since then. 114. 10andJoe posted: 02.26.2012 - 12:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 70% chance of steady rain all day long, from what I can tell. Forecast ain't looking too good. 115. Kyle posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) no cjs3872, bayne is not being released by roush and stenhouse will not be in the wood brothers cup car at any time this year. right now bayne will run the #60 through las vegas, and if they don't find sponsor by then the team will go part-time. bayne will not be released, but will probably only run 15-20 nationwide races this year (if that many). and he is running at least 12 cup races for the wood brothers this year. 116. Bronco posted: 02.26.2012 - 2:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "70% chance of steady rain all day long, from what I can tell. Forecast ain't looking too good." No it is not, I am praying that they move the race back to Monday if the weather dictates, or race whatever they can on Sunday and run the balance on Monday, but anything is better than a rain shortened event with a 2009ish Kenseth/Reutimann/Logano type win. The sport's most prestigious and most hyped race should never be affected by the weather. 117. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would not be the least bit surprised if about 12 wrecks leaves Landon Cassill, Terry Labonte, and Joe Nemechek as the only guys running for the win. I say that because even though the Cup has the "better" drivers, it has most of the egomaniacs. 118. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a meteorology major, it's over. See ya after Monday lectures. 119. ii posted: 02.26.2012 - 7:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would not be the least bit surprised if about 12 wrecks leaves Landon Cassill, Terry Labonte, and Joe Nemechek as the only guys running for the win. I say that because even though the Cup has the "better" drivers, it has most of the egomaniacs." Why does everyone say that Cassill will be one of the only ones left in the running? At least half of the field will still be running at the end. "No it is not, I am praying that they move the race back to Monday if the weather dictates, or race whatever they can on Sunday and run the balance on Monday, but anything is better than a rain shortened event with a 2009ish Kenseth/Reutimann/Logano type win. The sport's most prestigious and most hyped race should never be affected by the weather." Agreed. That's why I consider Sadler to have 4 career wins and Mikey only has 3. 120. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 02.26.2012 - 8:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only chance to get this race in is in evening, Accuweather and Weather.com show less or no rain possible after after 3pm and pretty clean throughout the evening. So you could get the race started by 5:30 or 6:00. Although there are some showers predicted for the Night, you could easily get to lap 100. You know FOX will make a big deal about it going up against the Stupid Academy Awards though. Problem is Monday's forecast is just as bad, and the last thing NASCAR wants is a Tuesday Daytona 500. 121. cjs3872 posted: 02.26.2012 - 8:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle, I hope you're right about Bayne, but the plain truth is that Roush may not have a choice. Bayne's ride in the #60 Nationwide car is only for the first three races of the season, and Roush not only wants Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. to be able to defend his Nationwide title, but also wants him in Cup full-time in 2013, and with the #6 team in mothballs after the Daytona 500, what may happen is Roush may be forced to release Bayne, which he does not want to do, and may put Stenhouse in the #21 Wood Brothers car to get him experience in the Cup series for 2013, when he possibly revives the #6 car. Now the top 6 have been released for SPEED's Great American Grid, and there are a couple of more head-scratchers here (not with the top two): 1. Richard Petty (as it should be) 2. Cale Yarborough (ditto) 3. Jeff Gordon 4. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 5. Bobby Allison 6. Buddy Baker 122. Derek posted: 02.26.2012 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm already sick of fox's suck ass pre race coverage.This john guy filling in for myers is a tool.Dw and mikey together is a little too much to take.A snowball's chance in Honolulu we get this race in today. 123. Anonymous posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another big area of rain is coming in from the west.No way they race today.Tomorrow doesn't look much better.A tuesday 500 would suck big time. 124. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) An open letter to Brian France: F**k you. Sincerely, NASCAR fans 125. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd switch Bobby Allison and Jeff Gordon. Yeah Jeff has 3 wins, but as has been mentioned hasn't done a whole lot in the race outside of that. Those were the only 3 Daytona 500s he was in contention for in the end. 126. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No it is not, I am praying that they move the race back to Monday if the weather dictates, or race whatever they can on Sunday and run the balance on Monday, but anything is better than a rain shortened event with a 2009ish Kenseth/Reutimann/Logano type win. The sport's most prestigious and most hyped race should never be affected by the weather." I'd rather sit through the 12 hours of Daytona or split the difference between Sunday and Monday, than see another 2009/2003 fiasco just race slightly past half-way and call it a race. It is the freaking Daytona 500, delays are bad, but if the alternative is to run barely past half-way and call it official, I'll take the former over the later any day. 127. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "An open letter to Brian France: F**k you. Sincerely, NASCAR fans" Real mature. Blaming him for the weather? How dare he piss off mother nature. The gale of that man. Good grief.......... Open letter to NASCAR "fans" Shut up. Sincerly, 1995 Subaru WRX Sti. 128. Mr X posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If DP wins this race I am going to move out of my house and I'll move in under the largest rock I can find, and live the rest of my life there, its the only way to avoid the media shit storm that will take place. I hope this race gets in today, I work all week. 129. Rusty posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a total nightmare. Not only is the biggest race of the season being rained out, but we have to deal with the Waltrip brothers for longer than normal. My ears are bleeding and I feel like I'm 10x dumber for listening to these two together. 130. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.26.2012 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Allison has been in contention to win a few more 500s than Gordon with the addition of one more win (except mother nature might tie Allison and Yarborough for second in all-time Daytona 500 wins in 2012). In addition, Allison has won with more teams and crews in those four 500 wins. I'd place Jeff at number 5 with room for improvement in the next few years. The only reason I can rationalize placing someone like Gordon ahead of Big E and Allison is poles, Shootouts and Duel qualifying race wins. If the former statement is true, then a test is required. However, Dale Jarrett has nearly equaled Gordon in poles, Shootout wins and Duel wins all totaled and isn't ranked higher than 8th. Jeff Gordon: 3 Daytona 500s, 5 Gatorade Twin 125s/Duel 150s, 1 Pole ('99), 2 Bud Shootouts (94, 97) = 11 Total Dale Jarrett: 3 Daytona 500s, 1 Gatorade Twin 125, 3 Poles ('95, '00, '05), 3 Bud Shootouts ('96, '00, '04) = 10 Total 131. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.26.2012 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru, what I posted was a response to Brian France's open letter to us fans. It is on NASCAR's website. I'm not blaming him for the weather. I just think it is cheesy after almost a decade of crapping on the fans to do an "open letter" like it really means something. Like we would have any other response. 132. LordLowe posted: 02.26.2012 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am waiting out the rain delay by watching the 1983 Daytona 500 which had 58 lead changes and a very bad crash By Darrell Waltrip 133. cjs3872 posted: 02.26.2012 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF and Jarrett88fan, as you will see, I do have Bobby Allison third on my list, having won three times, finishing second three times, and finishing third twice, while I have Gordon sixth behind Bill Elliott. Gordon has never been dominant in the Daytona 500. He's more like David Pearson was in that respect. Gordon had always been more dominant in the Firecraker 400 than he is in the Daytona 500. In fact, he has never once led the mpst las in any single Daytona 500. And get the facts straight when it comes to poles for the Daytona 500. Gordon, Richard Petty, Bobby Allison, David Pearson, and Dale Earnhardt, Sr. each only won the pole once. Jarrett won it three times, the same as Ken Schrader, who although he didn't make SPEED's list of the greatest Daytona 500 drivers of all-time, definately makes mine. Buddy Baker, Cale Yarborough, and Bill Elliott won it four times. However, the drivers that SPEED ranked first, second, and fourth are in the same positions on my list. Others who didn't make SPEED's list that made mine include Mark Martin, Paul Goldsmith, Charlie Glotzbach, Kyle Busch, and Dick Brooks, along with Schrader. 134. Bronco posted: 02.26.2012 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cannot believe they removed Jeff Hammond from the studio and replaced him with Mikey. One of the worst NASCAR broadcasting mistakes ever. 135. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.26.2012 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFan. So you want him to say nothing. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. 136. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.26.2012 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Saying something with an "open letter to the fans" is truly pointless. And yes, I would rather him say nothing. The Waltrip tandem is pure garbage. Aside from everything else about Mikey, it is also a huge conflict of interest to have a team owner up there. 137. LordLowe posted: 02.26.2012 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The race hasn't even started yet and already it is turning into a total disaster just like CJS said it would. 138. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.26.2012 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, whining about how someone does nothing, then finally doing something, more times than not, is pointless. 139. cjs3872 posted: 02.26.2012 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, is it the full original boadcast of the 1983 race, or the edited version from SPEED's NASCAR Classics? If it's the full version, get a YouTube channel and show it there, because a full 35 lap segment (laps 75-110) is missing from the SPEED version of that '83 Daytona 500. Also, watching that race will show you why I have Dick Brooks as one of my top 43 drivers in Daytona 500 history, because he was a dominant driver in that race, finished fifth three times and third in 1973, and never once drive for a top-echelon team. He's another driver that probably would have won the Daytona 500 at least once if he had driven for a top-tier team. 140. LordLowe posted: 02.26.2012 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is the Full version of the 83 500. 141. Cooper posted: 02.26.2012 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Jeff Hammond segment, is the best, most educated segment on NASCAR on Fox in probably 5 years. Actually very informative. Especially for fans that might be watching for the first time. MORE JEFF HAMMOND! 142. RoushFan posted: 02.26.2012 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think we should take the prerace show, and give it all to Jeff Hammond. 143. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.26.2012 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I want to play around with that touch screen now, lol 144. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.26.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Poor Sterling. He DID win this race twice. And he had nothing to lose by doing that. Also I miss him a lot. 145. LordLowe posted: 02.26.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF you don't blame Sterling for what happened that fateful day. 146. cjs3872 posted: 02.26.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, LordLowe, ever thought of getting on YouTube, because the 1983 race is one of the ones that is not up there in it's entirety. The only version on YouTube is the edited version from SPEED's NASCAR Classics about a decade ago. Another complete race missing is the 1984 Daytona 500, but I have a combination version of that and the 1985 race on my YouTube channel, along with the 1973 Indianapolis 500. Now another YouTube user had the full 1985 race on there briefly, but either he took it down, or YouTube took it down. I downloaded and saved it, but the last two-thirds of the 1985 race upload by this user was badly out of sync. 147. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's it, everyone. It will be tomorrow at noon. 148. Anonymous posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if my parents will let me ditch school tomorrow... 149. cjs3872 posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And OldSchoolNascarDude1, the forecast isn't any better tomorrow that it was today, as there calling for a 50% chance of thunderboomers. If the race is run tomorrow, it will tie the 1966 race as the latest in Daytona 500 history, as the 1966 race is the only other one to run on February 27. If it's rained out again tomorrow, it wil be the latest Daytona 500 in history. 150. Mr X posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the first time ever the Daytona 500 is postponed to Monday, maybe I'll call in sick tomorrow. 151. ii posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it would just be better to delay the race to the nighttime, either Monday or Tuesday. That way, when people get back from work/school, they can flip to the race while eating dinner. 6 or 7 PM EST would be good to start the race. 152. LordLowe posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well this race has become a bigger disaster then even CJS had Predicted 153. cjs3872 posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ii, but 6 or 7 EST would be rush hour on the Pacific coast, so those in places like San Diego (where I lived for 31 years), Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco, and other places in California and the rest of the Pacific time zone wouldn't be able to see the race anyway. That's one reason the time of the race was moved about six years ago, so that fans on the west coast could see it without having to get up very early on Sunday. 154. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hear you ii, with the forecast Sunday and Monday, why not toss the conventional wisdom out the door and have a 6 PM EST start either Monday or Tuesday? If the weather breaks for four hours after 5 PM EST either day, why not showcase the Daytona 500 in primetime? We understand that it is an advertised afternoon race, but with the erratic weather forecast, why the heck not. 155. cjs3872 posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now LordLowe, we don't know that yet. Remember that the fastest race in NASCAR history, the 1997 Winston 500 at Talladega was delayed two weeks because of rain, and they ran the full race caution-free. The Daytona 500 could be a relatively clean race. I doubt it will be, because I expect 30 cars to be involved in wrecks, but you never can tell. And I was wrong about you not having a YouTube channel, either, because we've been communicating through YouTube the last half hour. And you mentioned the 1973 Indianapolis 500, which was postponed twice due to rain, which was an absolute disaster. But also remember that the 1986 Indianapolis 500, the first Indianapolis 500 to be televised live (which was planned even before the rains of Memorial Day weekend that year), was also postponed twice and delayed a week due to rain, but when it eventually started (it was delayed a third time due to Tom Sneva's pre-race crash), it was a very clean race and the first Indianapolis 500 to be fully completed in less than three hours, so you just never know. 156. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is no perfect scenario to cover all time zones as viewers on the west coast will have to get up bright and early tomorrow, that is if there are not already at work/school. Regardless, rain-delayed races are largely forgettable, now add to the calamity this Speedweeks and the fact that this is the Daytona freaking 500, this could very well be the disaster CJS predicted. 157. Bronco posted: 02.26.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really wonder why the 500 was even scheduled to be run on Feb 26 to begin with, rather than the third week of February as it has always been. It just prolongs the off-season. 158. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.26.2012 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, it was because of the NFL lockout. NASCAR, taking the initiative, moved the race up a week to the 4th Sunday in February because had the NFL stayed locked out for a few extra weeks, there was a chance of the Super Bowl getting moved up, if the NFL wanted to try to still do a 16 game season. Nothing could compete against the Super Bowl, even the "Super Bowl of Racing". And the Daytona 500 wasn't always the 3rd Sunday in February. Many of the early races were on the 4th Sunday in February (last time it happened was 1970) 159. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.26.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And looking at the weather, there could be a shot at holding it Monday. I doubt they can do it Monday afternoon, but later on in the day, the odds that it will rain decrease. 160. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.26.2012 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regardless of what happens tomorrow, I think a Monday race for the "Super Bowl of Nascar", takes away some of its luster. 161. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.26.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The NFL Lockout was the primary reason Speedweeks was moved back a week. If Monday and Tuesday are repeats of Sunday, and Nascar had the open third weekend, it would likely move to the second Sunday in March. However, thanks to the NFL and the Players Union, Nascar comes out the loser. I do not blame the sanctioning body at all for the weather. 162. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.26.2012 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Never underestimate the power of the meteorology major. Forecast: No go at noon. I live 2 hours from the speedway; I'm an expert on local weather. 163. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.26.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF you don't blame Sterling for what happened that fateful day." Absolutley not. First of all, wrecks are a part of racing. Everyone who straps on a helmet and buckles themselves into a race car either knows what can potentially happen, is in denial, or is just plain dumb. And they are certainly a part of restrictor plate racing. Stuff happens out there. The only time I really blame people for causing wrecks is if it is done with malicious intent (Edwards in '10, Earnhardt in Richmond '86) or if they continually make mistakes (Steve Wallace, Michael McDowell) without stepping back and saying "maybe I should race different". But the most important aspect about that wreck is this: It was Dale's fault!!!! He clearly came down a lane and cut across Sterling's nose trying to block him. And watching SPEED's show "The Day" last year which featured many replays from that race that I had never gone back and watched for obvious reasons, I noticed he did that to Sterling a few times that day. That Silver Bullet was bad fast. Besides, had he not tried to save it he would have been alright. But he was so bent on holding the field back so his cars could finish 1-2 in the Daytona 500 it bit him. He accomplished that goal, but long term he set into motion the events that would lead to DEI's demise. And hopefully the idiots that sent death threats to Sterling afterwards were caught and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law (I never heard anything about it, so I don't know). I hope those people had to do some jail time and become somebody's Bubba. 164. Red posted: 02.26.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just hope I can make it through an entire work day tomorrow without hearing who won before I can go home and watch it... And how many NASCAR fans would really ditch the 500 to watch the Oscars instead? That seems like a flimsy excuse to me. 165. Anonymous posted: 02.26.2012 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would actually rather have the Superbowl and the Daytona 500 on the same day. It would give me something enjoyable to do that weekend (and this is coming from someone who watches and enjoys most of the NFL games in December and January). There's so much garbage during Superbowl weekend before the actual event that there's no game exciting enough to make it worthwhile. As far as I'm concerned, there's NOTHING more overrated than the Superbowl. Sure the casual fans wouldn't watch the Daytona 500 in this scenario but all the diehards would and I would love that. Too bad it won't happen. 166. Benny posted: 02.26.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) doesn't look like they can run it tomorrow cause more rain is coming. may have to be tuesday or easter weekend. 167. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.26.2012 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, looking at what they were calling for, they were calling for rain up until about 8. That would mean not starting the race until 10 or 10:30 at the earliest. Yeah, they started a Pepsi 400 that late a few years back, and a All-Star race VERY late the year NASCAR "derped" on the one start, having them start in the rain, but in those situations, they were nighttime races to begin with. I think NASCAR's line of thinking, they didn't want to have the fans, drivers, and crews wait 8-9 hours from the supposed start of the race to actually get it off. 168. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.26.2012 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) and 165, yeah, for the TV sports nut, having the Daytona 500 and a Super Bowl on the same day would be epic, but I think looking at the stands for that day, NASCAR would be embarrassed having so many empty seats when they could of moved the race to a different day. 169. Tom S. posted: 02.26.2012 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ #166 - Easter weekend would be pretty cool actually. The Masters, Daytona 500, and the Lord rising all in the same day? Now that's the real Super Sunday!!! 170. ii posted: 02.26.2012 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ii, but 6 or 7 EST would be rush hour on the Pacific coast, so those in places like San Diego (where I lived for 31 years), Los Angeles, Las Vegas, San Francisco, and other places in California and the rest of the Pacific time zone wouldn't be able to see the race anyway. That's one reason the time of the race was moved about six years ago, so that fans on the west coast could see it without having to get up very early on Sunday." They could always tape-delay the race for those on the west coast... "Easter weekend would be pretty cool actually. The Masters, Daytona 500, and the Lord rising all in the same day? Now that's the real Super Sunday!!!" Not really...since I'm gonna be on vacation from the previous Saturday to the Thursday after Easter, which is too big of a holiday to put the biggest race on. I know that the world doesn't center around me, but a lot of the drivers are Catholic and wouldn't race on Easter anyways. After all, they could just push every race back a week and have Homestead be on Thanksgiving weekend... 171. Eric posted: 02.26.2012 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I never viewed the wreck as Sterling Marlin's fault felt either for Dale's Death. I always hated the death threats Sterling Marlin got. I watched the 2001 Daytona on that day and I saw that wreck multiples since than despite being a Dale Earnhardt Sr. fan. The wreck always seemed to me that Dale himself was to be blamed for his death of how the wreck happened. Dale's blocking caused the mess a first place. I got the feeling multiple times in the past that Dale in his eyes wanted a 1-2-3 finish from a marketing standpoint or too make DEI will finish first and 2nd place at the Daytona 500. I thought he over corrected to save the car. If anyone watched Dale's final Iroc race, he saved the car from wrecking and I think Dale had the confidence to save the car again as a result. The other reason I don't think the death was Sterling's fault because of failure from multiple people from NASCAR including drivers not taking advantage of current safety technology that existed at the time of Dale's death such as the head and neck restraint. The Hans Device existed in racing before Dale's crash. While Hans Device was not mandated, race car drivers were using it by Dale's death in different forms of racing. Dale Earnhardt Sr. himself was offered a chance to wear a head and neck restraint device and he refused to and that meant Dale was responsible for his own death as much as I hate to say it. There was a lot of drivers against Head and Neck restraint devices in NASCAR at the time of Dale's death despite the deaths NASCAR had in 2000 without counting Bobby Labonte being lucky that his Southern 500 weekend crash wasn't worse than it was with him having stuck throttle that caused his crash. Sterling Marlin also was not responsible for Dale Earnhardt Sr not wearing his seat belts properly. Dale was warned in the past for not wearing his seat belts properly in the race car. Dale also was well known to be against new safety features and is one of the reasons he was one of the last NASCAR drivers to wear a open face Helmet at the time of his death. 172. Red posted: 02.26.2012 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Agreed. That's why I consider Sadler to have 4 career wins and Mikey only has 3." I disagree with both of those assertions. In the 2003 race, Mikey led 68 of 109 laps, proving he was the dominant car. Had the race gone the distance there's a good chance he would have won anyway. I can't stand him personally, but he deserved that 2003 win. As far as 2009, I don't know how you could say Elliott Sadler should have won. He was only up front because of a pit strategy shuffle, not because he was fast. But more importantly, he lost the lead under green in rather pathetic fashion, allowing the Kenseth/Harvick train to pass him without any effort to hold them back. I remember Elliott literally crying over the radio that he would've won had it rained 30 seconds earlier. SAD-ler, indeed. I also feel that Matt Kenseth doesn't get the credit he deserves for that 2009 win. He started dead last in a backup car, drove through the entire field, and took the lead under green before the rain came. And he didn't use any strategy tricks to get up there; he passed `em all on the track. 173. Anonymous posted: 02.26.2012 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who's ready for the most important race of all time run on a Monday?!?!!?!!!?!!!!?!!!!! 174. Red posted: 02.26.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, as much as people say the Daytona 500 has become a crapshoot, the only win in the last decade that I consider fluky/undeserved was Newman's 2008 victory. I'll admit Ward Burton's 2002 win may have been a bit flukish. However, very few people remember that he led a race high 53 laps in the 2001 race, only to get swallowed up in the massive crash on the backstretch. To me the 2002 race was karmic payback for Ward. Same deal for Harvick's 2007 photo-finish victory. He was lucky to win that particular race, but Kevin has been a contender in many 500's, and deserved to win at least one of them. In 2010, he led the most laps, and made a daring move to take the lead during the first GWC, but the caution came out and he didn't have any drafting partners on the ensuing restart. That should have been Kevin's race. Jamie Mac's 2010 win also falls into the karmic payback category. Jamie has always been strong in plate races, but crashes and end-of-race shuffles had routinely bitten him. He was among the fastest cars in 2006 and 2009 only to get caught in other people's wrecks, so 2010 was justice. Even Trevor Bayne's win last year was well-deserved. Yes it was only his second start, but the #21 was the fastest car throughout Speedweeks, and Trevor maneuvered it with the patience and skill of a veteran. Ryan Newman has always been a horrible plate racer, and wasn't particularly strong in the 2008 race, either. It took a bonehead move by Tony Stewart and a willing teammate in Kurt Busch to push him to victory. I'll be shocked if he ever wins at Daytona again. 175. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.26.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The simple truth is the "validity" of rain shortened wins is often judged by who won. Best example: the consecutive July Loudon races in '08 and '09. Kurt Busch won in '08, his only win in an awful year. Yet nobody used the word "fluke" because Kurt is a winner and a past champion. A year later Logano won in an identical manner. Yet that win has "fluke" written all over it. Why? It is his only win, and the only time in his career he has even truly contended for a win. Another good example is the 2009 Daytona 500. Does anyone honestly have a problem with the phrase "Matt Kenseth: Daytona 500 winner"? Doubt it. He is a champion, a winner, and deserves the distinction. Or how about Jeff Gordon's win at Pocono in 2007? He is Jeff Freaking Gordon, the consensus is he would have probably won it anyways. Once you reach a certain level, you get the benefit of the doubt. Another good way to shed the "fluke" tag: JJ won a rain shortened World 600 in '03. He then won it the next two years in a row, leading 500 of the 600 miles in '04 then surviving the 5 and 1/2 hour 2005 version to win that one. Nobody cares that race was rain shortened anymore. In a similar situation, Dale Earnhardt won his first Southern 500 in 1987 which is the shortest Southern 500 ever (ironically the only race he ever won shortnened for any reason). He won it twice more in the next 3 years. 176. cjs3872 posted: 02.26.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Gordon was not going to win that Pocono race in 2007 if it hadn't rained, or if NASCAR had thrown the caution five seconds later, because Ryan Newman was in the process of passing him when the caution came out. Another case in point was that run of Indianapolis 500s in the mid-70s that were rain-shortened. Gordon Johncock's win in 1973 was considered a fluke by many, because every big name driver in that race was knocked out by mechanical problems (A.J. Foyt had that happen to two cars in that race). Bobby Unser's win in 1975 was certainly aided by Wally Dallenbach's burned piston on the 163rd lap, but he had won the race previously. Unser also pitted twice on the caution that originally was brought out by Gary Bettenhausen's suspension failure, which ultimately was the final caution, since the monsoon hit almost immedaitely after. In a preview of the 1981 controversy, Unser also passed A.J. Foyt in turn one to lap him after his second pit stop on that same caution, but gave that spot up, though how they got ahead of Bill Puterbaugh and Billy Vukovich is unknown, because they were behind Puterbaugh and Vukovich after the pit stop, and got ahead of them with the caution still out when the rain hit. But Johnny Rutherford's 1976 win in the shortest Indianapolis 500 in history (only 102 laps were run) was no fluke. Rutherford had the fastest car, and had won the 1974 race. He did, however, have to come back after pitting and then having the caution come out before Foyt had to pit during one pit stop sequence, though Rutherford's charge was aided by the fact that Foyt had a broken sway bar, which his team discovered and repaired during the stoppage for rain. But just as they about to restart that race, it rained again, cancelling the remainder of the race and handing Rutherford his second Indy win. And as for Matt Kenseth's Daytona 500 win, he had just passed Elliott Sadler for the lead, and had come from the 39th starting position, so his Daytona 500 win was certainly no fluke, unlike Joey Logano's and David Reutimann's rain-shortened wins later that year (Reutimann proved himself a legitimate winner at Chicago a year later, while Logano has yet to prove himself a legit winner on the Cup circuit). And that Southern 500 win for Dale Earnhardt in 1987 was only the second time the Southern 500 had ever been shortened (1969 had been the only other shortened Southern 500 to date), despite almost annually fighting the weather, a major reason that race was moved to November and now to Mother's Day weekend. 177. Bronco posted: 02.27.2012 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The simple truth is the "validity" of rain shortened wins is often judged by who won. Best example: the consecutive July Loudon races in '08 and '09. Kurt Busch won in '08, his only win in an awful year. Yet nobody used the word "fluke" because Kurt is a winner and a past champion. A year later Logano won in an identical manner. Yet that win has "fluke" written all over it." Disagree, its not about who won, but HOW they won. Who finished 2nd, 3rd in Kurt's 2008 win? Michael Waltrip and JJ Yeley, by far their best finishes in what were terrible seasons for both. Kurt's win was just as fluky as Joey's, since both stayed out when the last caution came out and led just a handful of laps to win but Kurt's win isn't discredited as much due to his track record both before and after that win. Similarly, Reutimann's Coke 600 win was due to everyone in front of him pitting and was definitely considered a fluke, but he later proved that he could still win by beating Jeff Gordon at Chicago in 2010. Other rained out wins that I can remember do have validity due to the fact that the driver was already leading and had established himself as a factor (2002 fall Atlanta, 2003 spring Richmond, 2003 Coke 600, 2006 spring Michigan race, 2007 Kansas, 2011 Homestead Trucks) 178. myothercarisanM535i posted: 02.27.2012 - 4:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kurt's win was just as fluky as Joey's, since both stayed out when the last caution came out" Wouldn't you call that the right call - or at least a gamble that paid off - rather than a fluke? I read a quote from another driver regarding Joey Logano's win at Loudon, it went something like this; "We were in front of the the 20 when the last caution came out, so we could've won if we had've stayed out instead of pitting. But we didn't." Everyone had an equal opportunity there, but only a few made the correct call. In my eyes, that isn't a fluke. Mind you, I don't agree with the system NASCAR has in place and would much rather they took up the same set of rules that ~everybody else has been using since the dawn of time~ seriously, I have never heard of anything remotely close to the drama and controversy caused by the results of a shortened NASCAR race in any other form of racing. Not even close. The easy solution and instant fix to all of this is that when a race is red flagged, the results are wound back to the last completed green flag lap. Problem solved. 179. Matt posted: 02.27.2012 - 4:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Radar hasn't changed much.Looks like a tuesday Daytona 500.Such a downer! 180. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.27.2012 - 4:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meteorologist's report: I'm going to miss the flippin' Tuesday 500 because of the flippin' Physics 2 Lab from flippin' hell. 181. Frank posted: 02.27.2012 - 5:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) We can't blame Brian France for weather but we can definitely blame him for moving Speedweeks. It's a shame that NASCAR makes decision basing on completely different sport. 182. Smiff_99 posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I'll tell you what.....I know *I'm* praying for more rain today...at least enough to push it back a few hours. I (like many others) looked forward to the 500 for months only to be devastated yesterday by it being rained out (Sundays are my ONLY day off)and rescheduled for NOON today...(hope NASCAR enjoys the ratings) I work 'til 3:30 today....so if the race somehow goes off at Noon and goes the full distance without further weather interruptions, then I'm pretty much going to miss the entire thing (DVR/Tape delayed is....just NOT the same) But....I'll say this as well....if the 500 gets pushed back into primetime tonight? FOX and NASCAR will hit paydirt. MOnday night racing? YESSSS 183. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hmmm, You know, I'd like to see the race run tonight at prime-time now that you think of it. That would be epic. Just, pure epic awesomeness. Soooo, hope that we get the race in tonight. I can't watch a Tuesday race, my Tuesdays are jammed-packed with stuff to do. Please let the race go off today. Let it start int he day, end at night like in 2007-2008. I thought night-endings to the 500 were epic. 184. Bronco posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Bronco, it was because of the NFL lockout. NASCAR, taking the initiative, moved the race up a week to the 4th Sunday in February because had the NFL stayed locked out for a few extra weeks, there was a chance of the Super Bowl getting moved up, if the NFL wanted to try to still do a 16 game season." But in that case, why has next year's Daytona 500 also been set for the 4th Sunday of February (February 24th) as opposed to the 17th? 185. Smiff_99 posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm a traditionalist who like it in the afternoon, but at this point, I just want to be able to see it go down live and in it's entirety....so if it has to be tonight? SO BE IT 186. Bronco posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Officially going to be at 7pm tonight. 187. Matt G posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just saw that due to more rain in the area, NASCAR has pushed back the start of today's Daytona 500 from Noon to 7:00pm ET. I think this is better actually; more people will be able to see the race now that it's in prime time. 188. Matt G posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Forecast for tonight looks good too. I believe the front will finally lift north of the area this afternoon allowing for a go at 7:00 pm ET and a full 200 laps (and probably more the way these things usually like to end with a GWC). Almost time to get excited people!!! This has the potential to be a truly unique event! 189. Rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The ironic thing about Kurt's fluke Loudon win in 2008, the very next year when Logano won in the same fashion, Kurt was likely on his way to winning that race if it weren't for the rain. There wasn't many laps left and Kurt was about to pass Jeff Gordon for the lead (once Logano ran out of gas of course). I guess he used up all the luck he had in the luck bank the year before. 190. Scott B posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 7pm ET start time on a Monday night vs Noon ET start on a Monday afternoon will make a lot of sponsors happy, as well as the fans. Even with that change, I wonder what the total economic impact of having the biggest race of the season washed out on Sunday was on the sport. 191. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 12:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) where are you reading that at Bronco? And like I said, Daytona wasn't always the 3rd Sunday in February. 192. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.27.2012 - 12:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well shit, now I'm gonna miss it. I work nights. Maybe I can catch some at the station, but I doubt much. 193. Bronco posted: 02.27.2012 - 12:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "where are you reading that at Bronco?" http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/7610778/daytona-500-stay-last-weekend-february 194. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.27.2012 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Given everything that has happened, a prime-time start certainly makes sense as it seems the sanctioning body is serious about having this race on Monday. Kudos to Nascar for finding a window in the weather (fingers crossed) and pairing it with a potentially large viewing base (prime-time, under the lights, no network TV competition). Damn, I have a training after work, but should be back by 9:30 to watch the remainder, weather permitting. I'm praying for a safe race as well given what happened at the Shootout and the likely potential for a crashfest. 195. Smiff_99 posted: 02.27.2012 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) sorry DSFF :( Hahhaha I know how you feel, man. That's how I felt yesterday after the initial postponement.... 196. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WHOOT!! Primeimte! '79 all over again! Maybe God knew what he was doing. 197. 10andJoe posted: 02.27.2012 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Are You Ready For Some NASCAR? 198. cjs3872 posted: 02.27.2012 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it could be another landmark event like the 1979 Daytona 500, or it could be NASCAR's version of the 1973 Indianapolis 500. Frankly, if I had to place a wager on it, I would pick the latter. After all, there have already been a serious of bad crashes that have involved more than 100 cars, and now you add to that a day and a half of rain delays, and it could be an absolute disaster. There has never been a crash on the opening lap of the Daytona 500, but if that were ever to happen, this year's race would be the one. Of course, if it is like the 1979 Daytona 500, Jeff Gordon would probably find a way to win, even if he lucks into it. Remember that the first 500-mile race televised live from start to finish (1979 Daytona 500) was won by the most successful driver in NASCAR history, Richard Petty, a fact almost forgotten by all but those that know much about the history of the sport. The difference here is that there have been quite a few races run in prime time. But let's not forget who won the first night race in Daytona history? It was Jeff Gordon, who won the 1998 Firecracker 400, Daytona's first night race, which was delayed three and a half months due to the Florida wildfires that year. However, that race was always planned ot run at night, so it was not a day race that circumstances turned into a night race. And televising the Daytona 500 in prime time may take a lot of fans back to the days when ABC televised the Indianapolis 500 in prime time from 1971-'85, resulting in some of the highest TV ratings in motorsports history. A big difference here, of course, is that the Daytona 500 will still be shown live, instead of on tape delay. 199. joey2448 posted: 02.27.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race comment thread has more comments than many races on this website, and it hasn't even started yet! haha 200. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about this... If from a TV point of view, it's successful, how about next year, they run the 500 on Presidents Day Monday on prime time? Leave the next week off in case of rain delays such as this though. 201. Anonymous posted: 02.27.2012 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SON OF A *****!!!!! More storms have fired across central Florida increasing the chances for more rain tonight. Somebody needs to find mother nature's adress, give it to Borris Said, and tell her it's Greg Biffle's. 202. ii posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, am I good...I wanted the race to be at night. This is better for everyone, because it's the biggest race on the circuit under the lights, and us fans (besides DSFF) can watch it. Thank God the race wasn't in the daytime, as all but around 9% of us wouldn't be able to watch it at home. 203. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My pick to win is Tony Stewart. My sleeper is Marcos Ambrose. My upset is Regan Smith. My "one to keep an eye on" is Kevin Harvick. 204. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well that didn't take long. 205. Bronco posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol, that didn't take long. 206. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hard crash for Jimmie Johnson, since winning in '06 he's had no luck at all in this race. Thank goodness he's alright though. 207. ii posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They're making Danica sound like a hero. Everyone in racing knows to take their hands off of the wheel when they crash, or else half of the field would have previously broken their wrist. My pick is Almirola. I don't know, anyone can win, besides Johnson, Kurt Busch, and Ragan. 208. Mr X posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That didn't take long. Hopefully these drivers can manage to not break last years record of 16 cautions. We may have the slowest pace 500 of all time, breaking the 1960 record of just 124.740mph. 209. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's lap two of a 500 mile event. It's a darn shame that drivers can't understand that. What does bump drafting help do this early in the race? 210. Anonymous44 posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Several favorites already damaged up. 211. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Elliott Sadler you idiot! 212. Rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is a reason why Elliott Sadler is in Nationwide and not Cup anymore. Please don't let him run anymore races this year, Richard. 213. cjs3872 posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone think that Jimmie Johnson's run in the Daytona 500 is beginning to become a carbon copy of Mario Andretti's at the Indianapolis 500? Johnson, like Andretti, won the big one on his fifth shot, and won a pole in their first five starts (Mario won two at Indy in his first three attempts), and they've had nothing but bad luck after their wins. Not counting the 1976 race, which only went two laps past halfway, it was 12 years after his win at Indy in 1969 before Andretti even finished at Indy again, finishing second in that controversial 1981 finish. Johnson's on a similar run after his Daytona 500 win in 2006, which also camne in his fifth try. This is the fifth time in six years that Johnson's been in a crash, and he suffered suspension failure in the other year. And can you believe it? David Ragan just called someone else (Eliott Sadler) a bonehead. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. 214. Anonymous posted: 02.27.2012 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They haven't mentioned Kurt once in all this. 215. Cooper posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch has had at least $1,000,000 worth of damage in this speedweeks. Bud Shootout Practice: Wrecked Bud Shootout: Wrecked Nationwide: Wrecked Daytona 500: Wrecked Has anyone wrecked 4 cars, in speedweeks before? He sent Phoenix Racing back at least 5 years in one week..... 216. Rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only one of those wrecks that was his fault was the Nationwide one though to be fair to Kurt. It is sad that the drivers needed a huge crash on lap 2 to realize they need to calm down and get to the end. 217. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hmmm, 'bout 20 laps to halfway. I still don't like this pack stuff. Bring back the Tandem and break up the pack please. Still, Burton's doing good, Can't complain to much, Sad to see Johnson and Bayne out so early. 218. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's engine just went kaput. Bummer -_- 219. Ryan posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 4 former winners now with no chance of winning (Gordon, Johnson, Newman, and Bayne) 220. Cooper posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My bet for the half way money....Kyle Busch 221. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose spun LaBonte, but it looked unintentional 222. Mr X posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) did they seriously just go to commercial 7 laps from the $200000 half way lap?! 223. Cooper posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Commercial WTF 224. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Feeling for Gordon and T. Labonte. Both in good positions, both taken out by situations almost totally out of their control. And Nowwww, lets see if we'll be under caution when we come back for lap 100. I'm betting we will be for a medium-sized crash. Truex will probably lead lap 100. 225. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Couldn't of been more right on who will be the leader. *Chuckle* 226. Rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOX took the halfway thing a little too seriously, IMO. 227. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer just ran out of gas, before tonight he had the best average finish among drivers in the last few 500s. 228. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a terrible error on Bowyer's team. You can't make errors like that and expect to be taken seriously when it comes to competing for a title. 229. cjs3872 posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was it that bad of an error on Bowyer'steam, or the result of a posible mechanical problem? Remember that his and Elliott Sadler cars had earlier reported posible fuel pressure problems. Could it be that Bowyer's car lost fuel presure earlier than expected? That same thing thing knocked Trevor Bayne out of a chance at a good finish at the fall Cup race at Charlotte last year. 230. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) What the Hell JPM?!! 231. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) oh my god... 232. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like something on JPM's car broke, still Good Lord Almighty... At least everyone appears to have walked away. 233. Mr X posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think they need something bigger then a few fire extinguishers. 234. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have never! Of all the stupidest shit I have ever seen in racing, this has to top it 235. Rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, JPM wrecks into a jet dryer and the track catches fire. They are lucky it never got to the grass. 236. cjs3872 posted: 02.27.2012 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Obviously, it was a mechanical failure on Montoya's car with either the steering or the brakes as Montoya tried to catch the field. But that brings back horrible memories of when Armando Teran, a member of Graham McRae's Patrick Racing car was struck and killed by a fire truck as he was running to help teammate Swede Savage during that horrible 1973 Indianapolis 500. I just had a feeling that something horrible was going to happen in this race. I just didn't know what. 237. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Geez, how will this change the track? 238. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Notice the sparks before he lost control, there clearly was a problem. 239. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not watching but got a text. How do you hit a damn jet dryer? Days of Thunder. 240. NASCAR 2000 posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was bizarre. I've always said 2002 was the most bizarre Daytona 500 I ever watched. This one takes the cake. Rain Delays, women driving, the waltrips terrible announcing, the weirdest take outs (Allmendinger), and now a jet flyer getting hit by JPM. Dear gawd.... and if the race doesn't continue Dave Blaney is your winner. If that isn't weird.... I don't know what is. 241. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You'll have to wonder if they are going to change some rules regarding how cars run under caution. 242. Spen posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm almost hoping the race ends up being called off. Dave Blaney, Landon Casill, Tony Raines and David Gilliland in the top five? Talk about good paydays for those who need it! 243. Baker posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DAVE BLANEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! O-H-I-O Dirt tracker who started right here. If I had to pick a 2nd guy to win a Daytona 500 it would be him, but I would have never guess it would happen. No way they can start this thing now with rain coming. 244. cjs3872 posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I seeing things, or is FOX doing a "side-by-side" with the red flag out with action at the track one one side of the screen and commercials on the other, because it sure looks like it. 245. Cooper posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somewhere. Sterling is smiling. 246. Schroeder51 posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yup, they're doing a side-by-side under the red flag. Juan Pablo Montoya is very lucky he didn't get killed in that jet dryer incident. That could have been SO much worse than it already was. 247. cjs3872 posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Schroeder51, as I mentioned, that incident brings back harsh memories of the Armando Teran incident at the 1973 Indianapolis 500 when he got run over by a fire truck going up pit road the wrong way as he was running to the scene of Swede Savage's crash. But fortuantely, the jet blower didn't explode, which would have been a cataclysmic situation. 248. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Are they gonna call it? I'm way away from a TV. I know it would be a huge fluke, but Dave Blaney winning would be beyond awesome. 249. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tide. Cleans clothes AND jet fuel! 250. Anonymous posted: 02.27.2012 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haha look at Terry Labonte making small talk with Danica. 251. myothercarisanM535i posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh, so, guys? .....what the hell is happening over there? It's currently 2pm here, I'm just finishing up my lunch break at work and I decide to peek a look at the NASCAR website to see if they managed to get the race started today. Reading through the lap-by-lap and the comments here, all I can say is....well, I don't know what to say! There supposed to be replaying the race at 6:30pm here in Aus, so I guess try and stay away from the computer until then. Blaney winning would be awesome, but I hope they get the race back underway. Marcos Ambrose is currently in 27th position, which would be a pretty dissapointing place to finish given his amazing Speedweeks so far. 252. Cooper posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 250. HAHA :) 253. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Ummm, wow. That's all that can be said. This easily could have became a fatal incident. Thank the LORD the driver of the truck was able to escape. Hmmm. Dawn dish soap and Tide Detergent. Those things do some wild things, but now Tide has one more 'i can do this' in his bag. Now, i'm ready to go racing! Monday night Daytona 500 RACING! and here comes the rain. *eyeroll* 254. Rusty posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Imagine if that accident happened right in front of the stands? People would be dead or severly burned. Also, Brad Keselowski brought his phone with him into the car and took the first ever in race tweet during the red flag. He has gained 55,000 followers on twitter since. 255. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah Rusty, that easily could've been fatal. It would be worse then Bodine 2000. Praise the LORD for that to. I should of thought of that, how dangerous if this happened by the stands, I wrote about a slightly similar incident in 'Total Drama Indianapolis Racing'. True Kes did do that. 256. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YES! Going back green! 257. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty much what I know about this race is from Brad's tweets. How bad is it raining? 258. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No rain DSFF. Gonna go green! Finally gonna conclude the 36 hrs of Daytona!!! 259. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks. 260. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No problem Remaining picks for the win: 14,1 261. Schroeder51 posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My guess is Kenseth, Biffle, or Stewart. 262. Cooper posted: 02.27.2012 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mama, pass the peas, Sterling is trending on Twitter! 263. jabber1990 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) when was the last time a NASCAR race ENDED on a Tuesday Morning? or the last time a race started one day, and ended on the next? 264. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Plenty of races went past midnight. Having it end on a Tuesday though, I think that is a first 265. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Folks, It's gonna be 2011 IZOD loudon all over again. *pulls hair out* Catch 22 D@nm. 266. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the one time where I wouldn't want to be the leader on a restart. 267. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks good so far 268. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) So sue me. It turned out better then I thought. Praise the LORD. Let the crashfest begin. 269. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok, who is the dumbass who forgot the side by side on Fox?!? 270. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, I can't believe Montoya ended up hitting the jet dryer like that. I went on NASCAR.com and saw the photo and was shocked, first of all that the race was still on so I quickly changed the channel on my TV, and secondly that was one hell of an incident for a driver to be in. I'm glad Montoya wasn't seriously hurt because that could have been so much worse. 27 laps to go... let's see what happens in these final laps! 271. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where is the butt kissing for Aric's incredible save? (In front of a tv for now, not sure how long it will last). 272. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) MORE FAIL!!! Sweet jesus. Never in a million years would I had thought ARCA had one of the cleanest races all Speedweeks 273. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well there's your Big One, McMurray, Brad K, Regan Smith, Kasey Kahne and Carl Edwards all got damaged. 274. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Second Big one of the night, First Tuesday big one. Bring on the Triple GWC's, you know we're going have them. 275. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh. That was a nice 5 minutes in front of a tv. Listening to the radio now. Hopefully that can last for the next 10 laps. 276. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Starting to get a little foggy now. Still decent with visibility though right now 277. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The leaders are going to wreck at the end. There's just no way that Biffle, Hamlin, and Kenseth will make it. 4 to go folks. Jr or Burton to win. 278. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Tony goes for a spin. 279. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here we go, another Big One. 280. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once again Stenhouse proves why he doesn't deserve a ride. 281. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony got very lucky. How many times does a car flip when it gets sideways in a spot like that (between track and apron at the tri-oval)?!? 282. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2009 2012 283. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Matt, maybe now others who felt 2009 was a fluke can now credit him with a "real" Daytona 500 win. 284. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Grats to Kenseth for getting the 500 he deserves, and screw Bifle for being a pussy, at least Jr tried. 285. Ryan posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Earnhardt family now has eight 2nd place finishes in this race 286. New 14&88 Fan posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way da Go Matt!! 287. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle took one for the team on that last restart. 288. RoushFan posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No question with this one. Kenseth was one of the strongest couple cars all night and definitely earned this win. Now everyone can shut up about 2009. 289. Baker posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Garbage and boring ending. It all happened to Ford Racing and their garbage orders. I guarantee if Ford Racing doesn't have direct orders to help only Ford drivers then Biffle has the balls to pull out and try and beat Kenseth. I'm no Junior fan, but at least he wanted to make it interesting. 290. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of validifying a "fluke". Matt has for Roush 100% of their Daytona 500s, 50% of their championships, and 25% of their Coke 600s. 291. Schroeder51 posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congratulations Kenseth. 292. Ryan posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle... gutless 293. Anonymous posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good finishes for blaney, terry labonte and Raines! 294. 18fan posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt drove extremely well at the end of the race when I was certain the entire time he was leading that he was a sitting duck. Great job by Matt, maybe this win will solve their sponsor issues. 295. Neal posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good god what a horrible race. The fans screamed for pack racing and NASCAR's adjustments gave them a huge single lane pack. Congrats to Kenseth but what an epic fail on NASCAR's part. Scrap this rules package and do NOT run it again. 296. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Biffle pulled out, we woulda had a hell of a finish i bet. But nah, team orders, respecttttt. Dude, It's the Daytona 500. Throw the D@NM respect out the window. This crap of 'we couldn't catch him'. BS. He knew as well as Jr that the high line is faster in that Turn 4 to the start finish line. I still say we need to get rid of the current package. 2011 was MUCH more entertaining. This was, flatly put it, lame. The race was only partially worth waiting for the entire time. Nggghhhh. Still, congrats to Kenseth. He earned this win, for sure. Bring on Phoenix, without the stupid 'pack' stuff and holding against the yellow line. Good job to NASCAR for calling Edward being shot down below the line as it is, he was forced. Out of his control. Still, if they were going to be consistent, they should have penalized Logano. Stewart caught up in the final wreck reminds me of 1991 500 for Earnhardt Sr. Soooo, flatly put it, worst Daytona 500 since, what, 2003, 2004ish? Then again, i shouldn't complain. I got to stay up past midnight to watch the race. Still looking forward to Phoneix, with NO Danica Patrick. 297. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A suggestion you want for the rules package? To entertain the pack wanters, give them the package from 2001. THAT was even more entertaining then this, we had plenty of lead changes and three-wide stuff. After what happened with Montoya and the jet dryer truck, i think we'll surive another Dale Sr. style crash. I hope Dega still has the Tandems. If Tally ends up in a line like they did here, Then I can say that NASCAR shot itself in the foot just after a pair of great seasons. 298. Ryan posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey Biffle, you're full of it. Are we really supposed to believe that garbage you just tried to say? You could have pulled out on the backstretch and pulled out on the frontstretch? Not upset that Kenseth won because he was put in a good position to win, but Biffle was gutless, possible 3 wide finish if he does it right. 299. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle is so full of crap. Hell, Rubens Barrichello would probably say Biffle is full of crap. Its the last lap of the Daytona 500!!! Teammates be damned, I would be making my move to WIN!!! I guess Biffle and Barrichello can go hand in hand now 300. Rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) After such an exciting and wild Speedweeks. The finish to the Daytona 500 was pretty lame in comparison. Kenseth pretty much led the whole way after Montoya's terrorist attack. Greg Biffle really dropped the ball, how can you sit there and ride in 2nd on the last lap of the Daytona 500? Congrats to Kenseth though. The Fords were the cars to beat all week long and I don't have a huge problem with the deserving driver winning after a weekend of major flukes. 301. Mr X posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) IDK,IMO they can go back to the tandems until they find something better. This race to me was like the 2011 All Star Race, just many broken promises. Ever since the COT has come out we've seen RP races with 60-90 lead changes and generally 20-30 different leaders. Only 27 lead changes only 13 leaders, and very little shuffling in what was barely a pack compared to the package in 2001, and still the wrecks, this race was just dull, the closing rate appeared rapid at some rare instances, but mostly non existant. The long green run between lap 10 and lap 50 or 60, nothing happened, nothing, little passing or shuffling, the outside line could barely move, and Kenseth, Hamlin, and Biffle led over 140 of 202 laps. With the new grippy smooth surface I think the cars have so much grip that they can race constantly packed so tightly together that the only thing faster is the tandem, and the cars start to overheat before they can even get going and the lack of a rear spoiler means the rear is too light, and it doesn't punch as large a hole in the air either. The old surface was so slippery that drivers had to give eachother room to catch the car if it got out of control, however brave drivers could bundle together and make speed, and bump drafting in the corners wasn't even an option. On to Phoenix, however the Spring race at Phoenix in 2012 will be a shadow of the 2011 race, because of the new pavement, Las Vegas is the worst track on the circuit due to AERO PUSH!! And new Bristol isn't old Bristol, the next race on anything near a good multi-groove track is Fontana. 302. Spen posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle is racing for a job here, so being a good team player makes him look good in Roush's eyes. Congrats to Matt on getting a real 500 win. Montoya's wreck aside, this actually wasn't a particularly crazy 500. The outside lane is practically useless, so there wasn't much passing up front, and most of the wrecks were mid-pack, so the finishing order didn't get too badly messed up. And I don't think I'll be relying on a dream when making predictions in the future. I think I got one point for this race. 303. joey2448 posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow now people are complaining that they want the tandem drafting back??? I give up with you guys... Other than the suspicion of Biffle dragging the brake a little in the final two laps, I think it was a good finish. And we'll be talking about this race for years to come... 304. Bronco posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle, what a a loser, had a better car than Kenseth, had another fast car pushing him, yet protected Kenseth as much as he could, the same way Kenseth did to Ragan at last year's July race. Was definitely hoping for a better finish given all the waiting we did. 305. Neal posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Other than the suspicion of Biffle dragging the brake a little in the final two laps, I think it was a good finish. And we'll be talking about this race for years to come... --- The fire? Sure. Danica's first start? Yup. The finish? Not so much. For the most part this race was incredibly boring. 306. Lugnut18 posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race was terrible. It was a low line fest the entire race. Thank you all those that wanted "pack racing" way to go. 307. Rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is really lame that they were driving nuts 2 laps in but the end they were all single file. But overall, it was a memorable Daytona 500 for me. Now it is on to the normal racing. 308. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy jet dryers on fire, Batman! 309. Anonymous posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Raines sponsor: Rick Santorum for President. 310. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) joey2448 - You and me both. "We hate the packs! Break 'em up!" -packs get broken up- "We hate tandem racing! Bring back the packs!" -packs get brought back- "We hate the packs! Bring back the tandems!" ugh. Also, was it just me or did Fox treat Landon Cassill like he was the Invisible Man in that last wreck? Not a peep about his being involved, not on the "cars involved" list, even when you could clearly see a car (Stenhouse?) coming across the track and nailing him. Shame what happened to the BK team, they had a great run for both cars all day long 'till Wrecky decided to bring his old nickname back. Those who said they'd start and park though, I got your crow right here, I've heard it tastes good with a little ketchup... 311. Urethra Franklin posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor corrections: 47-Bobby Labonte: Kroger/USO 26-Tony Raines: Rick Santorum for President 78-Regan Smith: Furniture Row/Denver Mattress 33-Elliott Sadler: Kroger/Fred Meyer Jewelers 30-David Stremme: Jegs 312. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #26 sponsor: Rick Santorum for President #78 sponsor: Furniture Row/Denver Mattress #33 sponsor: Kroger/Fred Meyer Jewelers #30 sponsor: JEGS Performance Auto Parts #34 sponsor: Al's Liner/Scorpion Window Film 313. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Statuses: #93 - crash #5 - crash #1 - crash #2 - crash #43 - crash #42 - crash #30 - engine #24 - engine #7 - engine #48 - accident #34 - accident All others: running 314. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and can we give Robby Gordon the Hypocrite of Speedweeks Award, after Terry Labonte ran the full race and finished on the lead lap while The Lesser of the Two Gordons decided to start-and-park the 500? 315. LordLowe posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) At 10andJoe: I don't think the fans of NASCAR (including myself at times)know what they want anymore. 316. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon had a legit engine problem, from what I heard. 317. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah. Still though. 318. Baker posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) People complaining about the tandems and then now the packs are right. They screwed it up when they broke up the packs. The tandems were horrible, but this new "pack" is a joke. No one can make a move and the outside lane cannot sniff the front unless 2 cars break free in a tandem. The orginal pack racing was just that a pack where any line and any team could find there way to the front. This garbage was like watching a train set go around a christmas tree. I'm a Ford guy and I'm still ticked about the finish. The last several years Ford has been playing dirty. I'm actually kind of glad Toyota and Chevy have all but run them out of the sport. 319. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) To the rear: Danica Patrick (#10) backup car, Paul Menard (#27) backup car, David Gilliland (#38) backup car, Juan Pablo Montoya (#42) backup car, Kurt Busch (#51) engine change 320. HarryRacer posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No one could pass on the outside or even race lol did you folks not notice how big a lead the inside had on the outside lane. Seem like just one row racing thoughout the 500. Ford with the FR9 engine surely been in the advantage the last few years able to run hotter longer 321. Dinger22 posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm glad I'm not the only who though Biffle wussed out at the end. Apparently several of the drivers agreed. His post-race interview was pretty disingenuous. I'm sorry Biffle, but I have a hard time believing that suddenly, at that exact moment, the laws of physics were altered and you were unable to complete a move that we have seen for the last two weeks over and over again. Still, this felt more like a traditional Daytona 500, and that was welcome. A great car was able to work the draft well all night, lead laps, and earn a legit win, rather than some flukey two lap dash to the finish where any two car tandem could steal a win. It's not perfect, but it felt like Daytona. 322. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How depressing is it that our Daytona 500 winner, a past champion with a previous Daytona 500 who has made the cha$e every year but one, a winner in Cup for over a decade, and a very respectable guy is only sponsored for less than half the races currently (I'm sure this will help fill some races) yet Danica, one professional win in her entire career outside of go karts, has sponsors clamoring for her? 323. Spen posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Raines is currently 19th in points. I believe this is the highest he has been in his career. 324. GDR posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to the 17 car on the win. NASCAR has some work to do on this new "pack racing" if they want it to work. It's an inferior style of racing to the old pack or to even to the two-car tandem racing. I know a lot of people didn't like the two-car deal and I get it, but 74 lead changes with it in last year's 500 vs. 27 this year with the "pack." The biggest thing is the inability for guys to cool their temps and then push. You can stay attached for only half a lap, and then if you don't disconnect, the temps shoot up too quickly. It leads to less passing. 325. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >"(I'm sure this will help fill some races)" It didn't help Trevor last year. I suspect the problem is largely Roush's habit of burning bridges... 326. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is true 00AndJoe. Jack doesn't have a good record when it comes to sponsors. 327. Watto posted: 02.28.2012 - 4:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've never been a big fan of superspeedway racing, be it pack or two car tandem. I always look forward to the "real" tracks, where drivers actually get to push their cars to the limit rather than the ride in line and slingshot nonsense. I'm all about races where variables don't make it highly luck driven. Whatever changes they do for Daytona and Talladega, people will always complain no matter what. Remember a few years ago people raved about how awesome the racing was, meanwhile you have a 43 car train running up against the wall at Talladega for 50 laps straight? Please. Onto Phoenix where we can see where drivers and teams actually stack up when the guy behind the wheel is actually wheeling it. 328. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.28.2012 - 4:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Makes me think of 1999-2000 and the plate race follow-the-leader farces then. 329. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin was the one to choke when he moved down and allowed Biffle to hook-up with Kenseth...what a weenie. The new pack just isn't very good for momentum, as Harvick and Burton proved in the final 20 laps. If you go back and watch those two and Mark Martin with Truex behind him try to make the outside lane work, they couldn't stay hooked up. It could have been driver fatigue after the bizarre accident or whatever, but it sure looked like the 1998-2000 plate race package. At any rate, congrats Matt the brat! 330. myothercarisanM535i posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, crazy race. I didn't mind it at all and thought it was quite entertaining. I don't have a problem with what Biffle did either. With how hard the 88 was running, he probably realized that if he let Jr push him pass Kenseth, Jr would then pass him for the win coming out of 4. 331. Raycer posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tandem racing may create exciting finish, but it's totally until about 10 laps to go. Many of those lead changes in last year's race were meaningless. 332. Raycer posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) * totally boring 333. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 02.28.2012 - 7:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Never been happier to leave Daytona in my live. Won't have to deal with this plate nonsense until Talladega. 334. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 7:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What about Kenseth for the championship? I know this was a plate race which is completely isolated from the other 32 races, and I know he followed up his first 500 (and subsequent win the following weekend) with his only cha$e non appearance, but they showed a lot last year. Matt and Jimmy are an outstanding pairing. If Ford stays strong, and he can avoid bad luck in the playoffs, he will be dangerous. Also, Brian Vickers, The Sheriff of the Unemployment Line, how did it feel sitting on your ass, watching your rival win his 2nd Daytona 500 and ascend even further in the all time rankings? 335. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 8:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, 10andJoe, did I not say that Robby Gordon would do a start-and-park if he didn't get a fresh engine for the Daytona 500? He knew exactly what he was doing. He realized that his team had no shot to be competitve and, instead of risking his equipment in a hopeless cause (remember that 10th place doesn't pay that much more than last place in the Daytona 500), he decided to take his $250,000+ last place money, as well as having a compete car in tact. And with the win Matt Kenseth definately moves up the list of Daytona 500 drivers in history. Interstingly, he joins Bill Elliott (1985) as only the second Ford driver ever to win his qualifying race and the Daytona 500 in the same year. Jimmy Fennig also became the first crew chief ever to pull that off twice. When he won the Daytona 500 as a young crew chief in 1988 with the legendary Bobby Allison, Allison also won his qualifying race that year. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. also joimed his father, Cale Yarborough, Bobby Allison, Terry Labonte, and Kurt Busch as drivers that have finished second at least three times in the Daytona 500. And speaking of the elder Labonte, wasn't it nice to see him run up front, even though it was very briefly. For a brief instant, Terry showed why he's the greatest Daytona 500 driver never to win the race, as well as a two-time series champion who Kenseth's win tied him with on the all-time wins list. 336. Peter posted: 02.28.2012 - 9:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What was Montoya doing going that fast under caution? I know something broke on the car, but still no excuse for endangering your and other lives just becase you want to catch the field, you would have eventually caught up! 337. Kyle posted: 02.28.2012 - 9:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) what are the odds a hitting a saftey truck under caution? juan in a million! seriously though, glad the driver was okay. 338. RaceFanX posted: 02.28.2012 - 9:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What was Montoya doing going that fast under caution?" He was trying to catch up to the field after an extended pit stop for a mechanical problem... that likely broke anyway causing the crash and one of the largest explosions I've ever seen at a race track. Thank you God for keeping everyone safe. 339. nascarfreak99 posted: 02.28.2012 - 9:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just because there is no photo finish the race is automatically horrible? If anything this race reminded me of old school 1990's drafting style. The low line was best. 340. Anonymous posted: 02.28.2012 - 10:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 284. NadeauFan91 posted: 02.28.12 - 12:56 am Grats to Kenseth for getting the 500 he deserves, and screw Bifle for being a pussy, at least Jr tried. I don't get this. How can you say Kenseth was deserving, and at the same time call Biffle out? IT WAS BECAUSE OF BIFFLE THAT KENSETH GOT THE WIN. PICK ONE, idiot. 341. Bronco posted: 02.28.2012 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Assuming that NASCAR punishes the #48 team for the C-post infraction, Jimmie Johnson may join Michael Waltrip as the only drivers in history to leave the first race of the season with negative points. This also ties Jimmie's worst finish ever of 42nd, I don't think he has ever finished dead last in a race. 342. Cooper posted: 02.28.2012 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait....The fastest car won a restrictor plate race...By God! The travesty! Finally a rules package that allows the faster cars to show but also give smaller teams a chance to compete. You can control your own destiny now. Thank you NASCAR. Good job. This speedweeks feels like a really bad hangover. I've woken up this morning with no idea what the hell happened over the last few days. All I know is John King is a NASCAR winner, you can being running 11th on the final corner and still win, and you can cause a catastrophic explosion while under caution. Plus I have a swollen jaw, for which I have no idea how.....Waiting for Mike Tyson to show up. 343. dion posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't get why people complain about the 2 car tandem...look at the stats...2011 daytona 500 had 74 lead changes...2012 daytona 500 had 25 lead changes...for the non math people that is 49 less lead changes than a year ago. I think the racing was better with 2 cars over the pack. 344. Raycer posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @343 More lead changes don't automatically make a race better. Most lead changes in tandem racing occur when a tandem has to make a switch. They don't race hard until the last 10 laps. 345. Neal posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait....The fastest car won a restrictor plate race...By God! The travesty! Finally a rules package that allows the faster cars to show but also give smaller teams a chance to compete. You can control your own destiny now. Thank you NASCAR. Good job. --- Were we watching the same race? The top 9 were all Hendrick, Gibbs, Roush, and Childress. The only reason Blaney, Cassill, and Raines were at the front was the pit stop sequences. The outside lane could do _nothing_ all night. Besides the fire and Danica crashing it was a boring parade. You knew watching the last 5 laps there was no way in hell that anybody was going to pass Kenseth. 346. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fact that there are so many conspiracy theorists (mainly the Dale, Jr. fans) that think that Greg Biffle did not want to beat his teammate out for the Daytona 500 shows how many people really don't know what they're talking about. Biffle wanted to wait until the last moment to make his move on Kenseth to guarantee that one of the Roush drivers would win the race. Biffle just didn't have enough car to even catch Kenseth, much less try to pass him, plain and simple. Has anyone on this board forgotten the furious battle betwen Kenseth, Biffle, and Carl Edwards at Dover a few years ago. They battled each other as hard as they possibly could, and Biffle ended up the winner. And if any of you saw my post on the Daytona 500 predictions page, I said that the only Ford driver, especialy the only Roush driver I felt could win the race was Kenseth, because he's the only driver at Roush that has proven he can rise to the occasion when the real money is on the line. Kenseth now has wins in the Coca-Cola 600 (the only rookie ever to win that race), the fall race at Charlotte (last year), the All-Star Race (in 2004), was roush's first champion in 2003, and now has won the Daytona 500 twice. If Roush is ever going to win the Brickyard 400 at Indy, the only driver I see in his stable that can do it is Kenseth, because unlike his teammate, Biffle and Edwards (who was never a factor in the Daytona 500), who seem to shrink when the pressure is highest, Kenseth rises to the occasion when the pressure is highest. There are athletes who don't perform well under pressure, and there are others who excel under pressure, and Kenseth is the only Ford driver who fits in the latter category. And my prediction about the Hendriuck cars not being serious factors in the Daytona 500 also proved to be true, though Earnhardt did get himself into contention late, even he wasn't fast enough to lead the race, something he never did at any time, which may say more than anything about how far off the pace the Hendrick cars really were. Of course, with Johnson in that lap 2 crash and Gordon blowing up just past the 200-mile mark, and the Stewart-Haas car non-factors as well, Earnhardt didn't have any buddies. The only other Hendrick car around until late was Kasey Kahne, and he's just not comfortable racing in tight quarters, and never has been, which is why he struggles on short tracks, and why he will continue to struggle at the tighter tracks. Put Kahne on a wide-open track where the field can separate, and he's as fast as anybody. That's why he excelled at Phoenix after the reconfiguration, but always struggled there prior to that when you were in tighter quarters. Kasey has truly proved to be the perfect protege of Bill Elliott, who he replaced in Evernham's #9 car in 2004, because Elliott never liked racing in tight quarters, either, as his two short track wins prove. 347. Urethra Franklin posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Phil Parsons should be listed as the owner of the 98. While Dusty Whitney is an owner of the team (along with Mike Curb and Cary Agajanian), the name of the team is Phil Parsons Racing. 348. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.28.2012 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not saying Biffle didn't want to win, but I am saying that Biffle, Kenseth and Roush all knew about the top line not working. The only way for a non Roush car to win that race would have been for another car to break the duo up by pushing one of the Roush cars to the front and then pulling a slingshot. Biffle had a great chance to pass Kenseth on the backstretch, but Biffle knew Junior still had time to pass him too, which Junior eventually did. 349. BON GORON posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look Im not one of those Big conspiracy ppl but i know Biffle didnt do as much as he could to win that race and if I was a Biffle fan or a Dale Jr. fan id be frustrated. If it was between Gordon and Johnson or Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin the finish would be much more exciting. I honestly believe that Biffle was content with second and he was capable of winning that race. As for Jeff Gordon....what a frustrating evening. If hes not in a wreck something mechanical breaks on his car. He has a similar curse to Jimmie Johnson in the 500. While he did finish 10th in 2007 that has been his only Top Ten since his win back in 2005. As for this coming week in Phoenix I believe he will fair well. He couldve finished in the Top Ten back in November at Phoenix but brake issues hindered his performance. I dont think he will win it but I expect a Top Ten finish to rebound after his 40th place finish at Daytona. 350. Cooper posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Neal, the reason no one could pass Kenseth was because he had the fastest car. Just like no one could pass Dale in the 90's. If you have the fastest car than no one can pass you. Did you know, the Daytona 500's from 1990-2000 had only an average of 20.5 lead changes....Yet no one says The '90s sucked. All of the races were boring! Blah Blah Blah Basically, we have been spoiled the last 10 years with restrictor plate racing, and now hopefully the videogame style racing has stopped. 351. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great points, Cooper. I agree with all of them. 352. Eric posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, There are 3 reasons Matt does not have sponsors full all 36 races. The first reason Matt Kenseth has a problem getting sponsors is the Mattt's personality. His deadpan, soft-spoken humor is lost on the general public and sponsors think he is boring. Jack Roush being Matt car owner doesn't help because Jack is known have problems to keep sponsors despite who the driver. If Matt was a driver for another car owner, I am sure Hendrick, Stewart, Gibbs and most of the cup garage would have an easier time to give Matt a sponsorship. Matt's age also plays a factor. Matt is going to be 40 years old on March 10. Sponsors love young, aggressive drivers. A good amount sponsors target audience is 18 to 35 group and that is starting be a problem with Matt's age. Sterling Marlin was dumped by Coors because Coors said wanted to attract a younger crowd and got David Stremme as a result. I know Sterling was older and on the decline when Coors get a rid of him, but Sterling was an older full time driver like Matt is turning into right now. The only difference is Matt is still at his peak. I also brought up age because take a look at what happened to Jeff Burton in 2004 at Roush. Roush had problems getting sponsors for a then 36-37 year old Jeff Burton, but head no issues to find a sponsor for a then 25 year old Carl Edwards. 353. Eric posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I saw the race. The outside line could not move at all except for a couple times. What I saw with Montoya's crash was one of the least expected crashes I seen in racing in a while since I first starting following racing back in the 1980's watching CART. Thankfully no one get killed. That crash is not on a Montoya, that is a part failure. There was way too much coverage on Danica Patrick after she crashed like I expected. The amount of coverage of her always been a problem on raceday whatever series she races even when she does poorly in a race. A driver can a top 10 and doesn't get a mention, but Danica does even when she finishes poorly like she did in 2010 Nationwide series races. The amount of coverage that Danica gets actually causes other drivers problems to get noticed if they are doing well in a race when Danica doesn't do well. The best way to compare it is Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s 2009 season. I really don't see this win helping Matt Kenseth a lot for gaining sponsorship sadly. There is way too many factors going on here despite the fact Matt is one of the best cup drivers of his era. It is mentioned why on my post 352. 354. Scott B posted: 02.28.2012 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thought for the day... Why do they call it a "safety vehicle" when it can explode in a huge fireball? So, I've seen one more thing in racing I never thought I'd see. Overall, I wasn't as unhappy with the race as some of you. I am a little concerned about the outside lane not working very well. I don't know if that's the "green" surface on the track, or the aero package, or both. I'll admit, I was hoping the race would end at lap 160. Blaney, Cassill and Raines as the top three would have been a great night for some dedicated underdogs. Seeing everyone stopped and out of their cars, at 400 miles, at night, felt like it was July at Daytona. 355. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, I think you're mistaken about the Daytona 500s in the 90s ALL being bad. Sure there were dogs from 1988 through 1992, but the 1993, '94, and '96 races were among the greatest in Daytona 500 history, and even the finish in 1991 was exciting, and would have been even without the final crash in that year's race. The ten (actually eleven) years you're referring to go from 1997-2007, because almost all of those were pretty much dogs. But remember that it goes in cycles. The races from 1972-'75 were dreadful, exceot for 1974, but right after that came the greatest stretch of racing in Daytona 500 history, which spanned 1976-'84. In those nine years, there were never fewer than 29 lead changes in any Daytona 500, and five of those nine had more than 30 lead changes. And Eric, there is a big difference in the Jef Burton situation in 2004 and the Matt Kenseth situation now, and that's the fact that Jeff Burton was not that competitve in 2002-'03 and Roush thought that Burton really didn't have that much time left. On the other hand, Kenseth is winning, and winning big. Why Roush can't find him a full-time sponsor is mystifying. After all, Roush had Mark Martin until he decided to leave after 19 years, and Martin was 46 when he left, and he was fully sponsored, so I don't buy the age thing. It's all about competitiveness, and Roush didn't think that Burton was competitve any more, especially against the likes of Greg Biffle, Kenseth, and Kurt Busch. Actually, the biggest winner in last night's Daytona 500 may have been a driver who's night effectively ended before it started, and that is Trevor Bayne. Considering that Kenseth won, Biffle finished third, and Carl Edwards won the pole, combined with the fact that Biffle and Kenseth combined to lead 94 laps and the likely lap prize money that went with it, and all the money that Roush got from last night's race may have bought Roush and Bayne some more time to try to find sponsorship for his Nationwide car. If they still can't find sponsorship to run Bayne in more Nationwide races, I look for Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. to possibly be in the #21 Wood Brothers car by May or June, definately by the end of the season. 356. Gordon24 posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No start and park! 357. Scott B posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just to throw an idea out here, what would the racing be like with the same aero package, but giving drivers back the car to car communication? The outside line wasn't total junk. Mid pack guys were running it and staying even with the inside line. It was only when cars got near the front they didn't want to risk being the only one moving up and getting hung out. Letting them work out their own drafting deals might restore some of the passing attempts at or near the lead that was missing. 358. Scott B posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also a big winner: Ollie's Bargain Outlet. Two hours of heavy TV exposure while Dave Blaney was leading under the red flag. I don't know if it will help TBR land more sponsors, but it sure didn't hurt. 359. Anonymous posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DId Robby Gordon start and park? 360. 1995z71 posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WAIT! Isnt Danica driving for Tommy Baldwin Racing & not Stewart Haas? 361. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #359, I believe he did a start-and-park. Remember that he had issues with his engine in the qualifying races and reportedly said that if he didn't get a fresh one, presumably from Penske, he would do a start-and-park. And even though he's listed as having engine failure, his exit from the race was not reported until hours after it happened, which leads me to believe that he did a start-and-park. Had he had real engine trouble, it probably would have been reported as such, but because nothing was ever said on the broadcast about why Robby left the race, he probably parked it, especially after the early incidents involving a total of seven cars. 362. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr fans don't need to be starting conspiracy theories or complain about somebody blocking to allow an affiliated car to win. This was Jr's 3rd Daytona 500 runner up. In his first one, it was him and his teammate well out front because their owner was running some MAJOR interference in the end. And as far as conspiracy theories, his 2001 Firecracker 400 win is still hotly debated. The fact is Kenseth and Biffle had the best cars in the end (and all week really). They knew the smartest thing to do was to hook up on restarts, not jostle back and forth and allow slower cars to slip in front of them and block and allow the pack to envelope them, then settle it with themselves. I think Biff wanted to try to do to Kenseth what KyBu did to Smoke in the Shootout, hang on to his ass and pass him in the last instance. But then Jr showed up. Hell, him and Biff hooked up in a tandem. It just didn't work cause both are notoriously bad tandem drafters. I know Jr did a hell of a job for JJ in the Spring Dega race last year, but they both totally gagged in the Firecracracker 400 and Fall Dega. Another example: Spring Dega '09. Jr tried to push him and Newman out in front of everyone, but Carl being pushed by Brad just blew them off the track leading to the famous finish. And Biff last year always seemed to either spin someone out or get spun out. 363. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.28.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as the quality of the race, I got to see about 20 total laps live, so I can't really comment on how good or bad it was. But speaking of the 90's races, they were pretty hit or miss. And the ending to some of them unfairly altered them historically. I think 1991 was a classic. With the bizarre new pit rules, everything got jumbled and you never knew what was going to happen. I also remember all the new paint schemes. This was back before the internet and everything. Rusty's first race in the #2, the first non-movie appearance for the beautiful Mello Yello car, the first race for the good looking Western Auto car. The Tide car was #5 now which was odd to see at first. And the first race for the Texaco car with the bright orange numbers and logo that became a fixture. And it ended with a promising new driver stepping up and winning the biggest race. But it ended under caution so it lost steam historically. But I thought it was awesome, especially at the time. On the other hand, there are the 1990 and 1998 races. They are both remembered, but that is because of the circumstances. The races themselves were garbage. I still remember 1990 even though I hadn't quite turned 6 yet. Dale just pulled away at will. It was so bad, I clearly remember my Dad (a huge Earnhardt fan which is why I became an Earnhardt fan) sleeping on the couch through most of the race. I remember him telling me to make sure he was awake with 10 laps to go so he could finally see Dale win the Daytona 500. Then, of course he cut a tire in the last set of corners which was the ultimate example of us realizing he was freaking cursed in that race. I remember it taking a while for us process what had just happened. After what seemed like an eternity, Dad finally said "I can't believe that, he just needed to make it one more mile". And of the Daytona 500s I have got to watch, 1998 is the second worst actual race (behind 2000). But it gets remembered very fondly, and rightfully so, because it is when Dale finally broke through and got to win that race. The racing may have been horrible, but I was tense as hell in those last laps, basically wondering what was gonna happen this time. The drama of the moment overshadowed what was actually going on with the racing. And it is a good thing. And then of course the show of respect Dale was shown coming to victory lane was a moment of raw emotion that STILL gives me the chills everytime I see it. 364. Anonymous posted: 02.28.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So happy to see Terry run well today. Regan robbed again on a plate track. 365. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I promised this. after SPEED announced their Great Amnerican Grid of who they thought were the 43 greatest Daytona 500 drivers of all-time, which automatically included all 35 winners. On my list, there is no such provision, though the winners that didn't make it will be listed in the honorable mention section. All drivers who won will have their win listed. Here's the list of my 43 greatest drivers in Daytona 500 history: 1. Richard Petty (7-time winner, 1964, '66, '71, '73-'74, '79, '81) 2. Cale Yarborough (4-time winner, 1968, '77, '83-'84) 3. Bobby Allison (3-time winner, 1978, '82, '88) 4. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. (1998 winner) 5. Bill Elliott (2-time winner, 1985, '87) 6. Jeff Gordon (3-time winner, 1997, '99, 2005) 7. Dale Jarrett (3-time winner, 1993, '96, 2000) 8. Buddy Baker (1980 winner) 9. Sterling Marlin (2-time consecutive winner, 1994-'95) 10. Benny Parsons (1975 winner) 11. David Pearson (1976 winner) 12. A.J. Foyt (1972 winner) 13. Fireball Roberts (1962 winner) 14. Fred Lorenzen (1965 winner) 15. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004 winner) 16. Davey Allison (1992 winner) 17. Ernie Irvan (1991 winner) 18. Geoff Bodine (1986 winner) 19. Terry Labonte 20. Donnie Allison 21. Matt Kenseth (2-time winner, 2009, '12) 22. Marvin Panch (1961 winner) 23. Tony Stewart 24. Kevin Harvick (2007 winner) 25. Kurt Busch 26. Lee Petty (1959 winner) 27. Michael Waltrip (2-time winner, 2001, '03) 28. Darrell Waltrip (1989 winner) 29. Junior Johnson (1960 winner) 30. Mark Martin 31. Ken Schrader 32. Jimmie Johnson (2006 winner) 33. Bobby Isaac 34. Dick Brooks 35. Kyle Busch 36. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969 winner) 37. Charlie Glotzbach 38. Neil Bonnett 39. Tiny Lund (1963 winner) 40. Ned Jarrett 41. Ryan Newman (2008 winner) 42. Joe Weatherly 43. Joe Ruttman HONORABLE MENTION (Daytona 500 winners not on my list): Mario Andretti (1967), Pete Hamilton (1970 winner), Derrike Cope (1990 winner), Ward Burton (2002 winner), Jamie McMurray (2010 winner), Trevor Bayne (2011 winner) Some will disagree with some of my last selections, as picks 37-43 were excrutiatingly difficult, though the top 35-37 really were not, though there will be disagreements with some of my rankings, especially about eighth or ninth on back. Some of the things I took into consideration included in-race performance, how a driver finished, and performance in qualifying races. Now, the last four selection were really difficult to make, as I considered a number of drivers who I didn't choose, including Daytona 500 winners Pete Hamilton and Ward Burton, along with Darel Dieringer, Coo Coo Marlin, Ricky Rudd, Rusty Wallace, along with the ones I picked, who were Ned Jarrett (due to his consistent finishing record), Ryan Newman (due to his strong runs, though they haven't merited the finishes they've often deserved), Joe Weatherly (due to his consistent finishing record, like Ned Jarrett), and Joe Ruttman (who was a dominating factor when he had good cars, as his three top fours and leading the most laps in the 1983 race showed). 366. myothercarisanM535i posted: 02.28.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought the racing was fine and I also agree that the number of lead changes is not a direct indicator of the quality of racing. Another thing about Biffle, is that as soon as Earnhardt jumped onto his rear bumper, I don't think he had any shot of winning - and I think he thought that too. If the 88 pushes him past the 17, then the 88 passes him for the win coming to the chequered flag. So maybe he figures that he's better off staying behind the 17 til the last possible moment, but by that time the 88 had already decided it was too late and decided to go himself. One thing I think we can all agree on, is that Dale Jr was not going to push Biffle to the win. Biffle knew that too and decided his best shot was to hold his ground. 367. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you say that the 2000 race was the worst in Daytona 500 history. It was among the worst, but it wasn't THE worst. That distinction goes to the 1972 race, in which there were only five cars capable of winning, and A.J. Foyt's was the only one of them not to experience trouble in the first 200 miles, as he led the last 120 laps. Others that I would say were worse than 2000 were 1964, '65, and quite frankly, this year's race, because of all the things that happened made this year's Daytona 500 look a lot like the rain and tragedy-marred 1973 Indianapolis 500. But I'd rank the 2000 race the fifth-worst Daytona 500 ever, and the 1995, 97, '98, and '99 races aren't far behind it. 368. 18fan posted: 02.28.2012 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In 1995 I think there were like 3 actual on-track, green flag passes for the lead and nobody would even try the outside. At least this year people tried the outside just nobody in the top handful of cars seemed to be willing to take a chance and jump up to the outside. I do think that had something to do with the green racetrack and the cool temperatures that gave the track way more grip. Although the inside line was still preferred in the Duels, the outside worked better in that race than it did in the 500. 369. Scott B posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #360: "WAIT! Isnt Danica driving for Tommy Baldwin Racing & not Stewart Haas?" Tommy Baldwin is the listed owner due to the points swap that took place, that was done to secure NASCAR's approval of the deal. The cars are prepared by Stewart-Haas, though, and the pit crew is Stewart-Haas. However, when Reutimann is in the #10, those car will be from TBR, but apparently still with over the wall help from Stewart-Haas. Probably more complicated than it needs to be, isn't it? 370. the_man posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on a 43rd place finish: "It is disappointing. I was just now trying to see the monitor to see who I can be mad at. It is ridiculous to sit around this long for the Daytona 500 and on the very first lap for someone to be driving as reckless as whoever caused that -- someone had to cause it. It is just a shame for it to be that early in the biggest race, the first race of the year. We just got caught up in it. We were content on riding in the beginning and minding our Ps and Qs. They started wrecking in front of us and we just couldn't get out of the way quick enough. It is very disappointing for our Scorpion Truck Bed Liners team. We will have to pick up and move on. I can't wait to see who was the bonehead that did that." 371. 24 posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 38 David Gilliland did not finish on the lead lap 372. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2000 and 1998 races WERE garbage. To try and compare this race to those races is WAY off base. 373. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, there were more than three on-track passes for the lead in the 1995 race, but not many more. Dale Earnhardt tok the lead on the first lap, which NASCAR officially counted as a lead change since he wasn't the pole sitter. Sterling Marlin passed him on lap 3. The next on-track lead change was when Mark Martin slipped in the rain on lap 68, handing the lead to Jeff Gordon. Earnhardt led on a restart on lap 100, but was soon passed by Michael Waltrip, who then gave way to Marlin on lap 105. The only other on-track lead change in that race was when Marlin used the draft from when Earnhardt and Gordon were briefly side-by-side when Earnhardt lapped him due to Gordon's flat left front tire, and passed Earnhardt on lap 181. But that was the race that ushered in the era of extremely long periods of one driver leading that lasted for a decade. Marlin led 57 consecutive laps in that race, no driver led more than once in the 1997 race until lap 146, two different drivers led for more than 45 consecutive laps in the 1998 race, with Earnhardt leading the final 61 and 69 of 70, Rusty Wallace led for 64 consecutive laps in the 1999 race, Dale Jarrett and Mark Martin each led extremely long periods of the 2000 race (Jarrett once led 56 consecutive laps, Martin 65), Marlin and Ken Schrader each led more than 40 consecutive laps in the 2002 race, and except for pit stops, Tony Stewart led for about 95 consecutive laps in the 2004 race. 374. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin-n-rusty, races can be terrible for different reasons. For instance, the 1972 race in the worst in history because there was no competition in that race. The races from 1995-2004 can be grouped as terrible races because you just couldn't pass (with the exception of 1996 and 2001). The competition was there, but you just couldn't pass because the aerodynamics of the cars combined with the cold air box actually made the draft work in reverse. The 2000 race was clearly the worst of these, but I really can't tell the 1995, '97, '98, '99, 2002, '03, and '04 races apart from that standpoint, because they all looked similar. No, I rank this race as the fifth-worst Daytona 500 in history, not because of the lack of competition, or the lack of an outside groove for most of the race. I rank this as one of the worst Daytona 500s in history because of the other things that happened, such as the rain, the fireball in turn three, and all the huge crashes, which is why, even though everyone involved in all the crashes were uninjured, the 2012 Daytona 500 is Daytona 500's version of the 1973 Indianapolis 500, which is widely regarded as the worst Indianapolis 500 ever run. 375. Eric posted: 02.28.2012 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Roush not finding Matt Kenseth full-time sponsor isn't mystifying if you look more closely with Roush dealing with Sponsors. Roush has a pretty bad reputation of keeping the same sponsor. Take a look at how many sponsors that Mark had that left Roush through the years. I know Sponsors do leave teams, but it usually not like Roush has since he first went became a Nascar Owner. The same thing has happened to other driver Roush has also. In most of those cases for what ever team it is for Roush on the cup level, it seems to be based on asking price, Jack's personality or something to do with Jack Roush. If you combine that with the misconception of Matt's personality, that is a problem instead of looking at what Matt Kenseth bring on the track. If it wasn't for personality, NAPA still wouldn't be with Michael Waltrip as a driver and as an owner. Remember when Sprint first became Nascar's Sponsor, Matt was portrayed as a robot. That is how a majority included the media thought Matt's personality really was before the truth came out it through Matt's Twitter account. The media realized Matt has a great Sense of humor, but that humor is lost on the general public. Matt is one of those people that his personality comes out better outside of interviews, but Sponsors don't look at it that way. I remembered USPS even used the term "Rockstar" when they were looking for another driver after leaving David Reutimann. That "Rockstar" persona is something that sponsors want in personality or of a person that is extreme like Red Bull did with Vickers doing sky diving. 376. Red posted: 02.28.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I never thought I'd say this, but by the end of the race I didn't even care what happened, I just wanted it to be over. The endless delays and the tame final segment pretty much sapped my enjoyment of this race. Honestly, I think it was the collective fatigue from the last four Daytona 500's, which have all had major issues/delays: 2009 - Interrupted several times by rain, culminating in a very unsatisfying rain-shortended ending. Of the final 33 laps, 22 were run under yellow. Painful. 2010 - 2 1/2 hours of delays to repair a pothole, which was especially aggravating because the racing was very competitive, and the pothole killed the building climax. Good finish, though. 2011 - Since it was the first race with tandem drafting, drivers didn't know what they were doing and we suffered through a record 16 cautions. More than a quarter of the race was run under yellow. 2012 - Green flag delayed 30(!) hours due to persistent rain, then another two hours for the impossibly fluky jet dryer incident. This race seemed cursed from the beginning. For 2013, all I want is a NORMAL Daytona 500 on a Sunday afternoon that finishes in 3 1/2 hours without anything weird happening. It's due to happen sooner or later... 377. MartinFan5 posted: 02.28.2012 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I feel sorry for all the drivers who have to race against Danica Patrick Patrick isnt ready for Cup or even nationwide Go Back to Indycar The top 3 worst Drivers Danica Patrick John Wes Townley Steve Wallace 378. Red posted: 02.28.2012 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though the racing was fairly dull by recent standards, at least it was "fair", in the sense that the best cars were the ones battling for the win at the end. In fact, there were four drivers to lead 20+ laps, and they finished 1st, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Compared to the lottery endings of many recent RP races, it was nice to see the best cars finish where they deserved to. I don't feel bad for Kurt Busch, but I feel really bad for James Finch. He lost FOUR cars to wrecks during Speedweeks, and for a small budget team that has to be a killer. 379. Talon64 posted: 02.28.2012 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth picks up his 22nd career Sprint Cup Series victory, tying him with Terry Labonte for 29th on the all time list and 17th in the modern era; he ranks 6th since moving to the Cup Series full time in 2000, 1 behind Kyle Busch for 5th. Kenseth becomes the 9th driver to win multiple Daytona 500's, winning his 2nd in the last 4 years; the last driver to win two Daytona 500's within that span or shorter was Michael Waltrip winning in 2001 and 2003. The wins are Kenseth's only top 5's in 13 career Daytona 500's (5 top 5's in 25 overall Daytona starts, 16.7 average finish). Jack Roush earns his 2nd Daytona 500 victory, both with Kenseth, and his 2nd straight Daytona win overall (David Ragan in the July 2011 race). Roush Racing has 9 career plate track wins, 4 of them (including 3 of his 6 overall Daytona wins) coming since 2009. It's also Roush Racing's 300th career NASCAR win (126 in Cup, 124 in Nationwide, 50 in Trucks). Dale Earnhardt Jr. finishes 2nd for a third time in the Daytona 500, including 2 in the last 3. It's his 5th top 5 in 13 career Daytona 500's (14.5 avg fin), and he ties his most top 5's at any track with his 9th in 25 overall Daytona starts (14.5 avg fin). Hendrick Motorsports records their 5th career runner-up finish in the Daytona 500 (versus 6 victories); two with Dale Earnhardt Jr. (2010 & 2012) and 1 each with Terry Labonte (1997), Ken Schrader (1989) and Benny Parsons (1987). Greg Biffle ties his best career Daytona 500 finish with his second 3rd place finish, both coming in the last 3 races; they're his only top 5's in 10 career Daytona 500 starts (18.5 average finish). It's his 70th career top 5 in 331 Cup Series starts. Denny Hamlin gets his first top 10 finish in the Daytona 500 in 7 tries; he has just a 20.4 average finish in the 500, and just 2 top 10's (3rd in the 2009 July race) and a 20.7 average finish in 13 Daytona starts overall. It's Joe Gibbs Racing's first top 5 in the Daytona 500 since 2008 (3rd and 4th). After just 2 top 5's in all of 2011, Jeff Burton kicks off 2012 with his 4th career Daytona 500 top 5 (20.2 average finish in 19 starts) and 8th Daytona top 5 overall (17.5 in 37 starts). It's Richard Childress Racing's 31st career top 5 at Daytona, their 4th most at any track and 1 behind Bristol for 3rd. Paul Menard is tied for the longest active top 10 streak at Daytona with 3 in a row. It's his 2nd straight top 10 in the Daytona 500, his only ones in 5 starts (17.6 average finish). Daytona becomes the 6th track in which Kevin Harvick has at least 10 top 10's; it's his 3rd in the last 4 Daytona 500's and 5th in the last 7 at Daytona overall. The 2007 Daytona 500 winner has 4 top 5's and 6 top 10's in 11 career starts in the race (14.5 average finish), and 5 top 5's and 10 top 10's in 22 Daytona starts overall (15.0 average finish). Carl Edwards, who tied for the most poles in 2011 with 3, earned his 11th career Cup Series pole and 1st for the Daytona 500; he's now tied for 53rd all time in poles. Carl finished 8th for his 3rd straight top 10 in the 500 and 7th in the last 10 Daytona races overall (4 top 5's and a 10.9 average finish, versus a 30.0 avg fin for his first 5 Daytona starts). Joey Logano picked up his 30th career top 10 in 112 Cup starts, and his first in the Daytona 500 (23.75 avg fin, including finishing dead last in his Daytona 500 debut in 2009). It's his 2nd straight Daytona top 10 overall. Mark Martin picked up his 439th career top 10, putting him 7 back of Bobby Allison for 2nd all time. It's just his 19th top 10 in 54 career Daytona starts (18.2 average finish), and his 11th in 28 career Daytona 500's (19.0 avg fin). Dave Blaney is 2 starts away from 400 in his Cup career. Terry Labonte made his 878th career Cup start, just 5 behind Dave Marcis for 3rd all time. Jimmie Johnson tied the worst finish of his 364 race Sprint Cup career in 42nd; the only other time he's finished 42nd was at Pocono in 2007. 380. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #34 sponsor: Al's Liner/Scorpion Truck Bed Liner #98 owner: Phil Parsons 381. Mark O. posted: 02.28.2012 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, why don't you just outright admit you don't like Trevor Bayne for whatever reason, instead of making some kind of lame excuse every time you post about him? The evidence is clear based on your posting history. 382. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, for the most part, those that sponsored Mark Martin at Roush left because they wanted to leave the sport, not because they wanted to jump to another team. Stroh's, Folgers, and Viagra left the sport entirely after leaving Mark Martins' car at Roush and Valvoline stayed on for nine years, which is an eternity to stay on one car. Granted, it's no comparison to how long STP (Richard Petty's #43 car), GM Goodwrench (Richard Childress' #3/29 car), and DuPont (Hendrick Motorsports' #24 car) stayed on the same car, as well as Joe Gibbs' long-time sponsors Interstate Batteries (#18 car, 21 years) and Home Depot (#20 car, 14 years) have stayed on the same car, but nine years on the same car is an eternity in NASCAR's modern age. In fact, what team do you think of when it comes to Valvoline sponsorship in NASCAR? The answer is easy? Roush Racing's #6 car. It is mystifying to me that Roush has been having sponsor problems with not only a true champion like Matt Kenseth, but also Carl Edwards and well Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. Now Trevor Bayne is a different story, because potential sponsors think he's too conservative and won't take chances (last year's Nationwide race at Texas should have disspelled some of that from a sponsor's point of view, when he beat Edwards, who had a much faster car), because Roush's team is the third team he's been with on which he's had sponsor problems, so there's an obvious pattern there with Bayne having problems attracting sponsors. 383. cjs3872 posted: 02.28.2012 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark O., the situation with Trevor Bayne, as far as where his career seems to be heading has happened to other prominent drivers before. Some, like Neil Bonnett, had their careers rescued by a lucky break, while others had promising careers that were derailed due to circumstances out of their control. What saved Neil Bonnett's career was that the Wood Brothers' car, then still one of the most sought after cars in the sport, opened up after David Pearson left after the 1979 Rebel 500 at Darlington. Bonnett, who was without a ride due to the happenings with his car owner Jim Stacy (the same Jim Stacy who later wanted no part of Dale Earnhardt), was hired by the Woods, thereby saving his career. But other drivers like Donnie Allison spent the prime years of their career never in a solid situation (Donnie drove for the Wood Brothers, Bud Moore, DiGard, and Hoss Ellington, and even drove for A.J. Foyt at Indy twice, all between 1971-'76), while still others like Charlie Glotzbach were forced out of the sport all together because there were no quality rides available, so this kind of thing has happened before, and will happen again. I hope this doesn't happen to Trevor, but when a driver has a history of not being able to attract sponsors, that kind of thing will tend to follow you until a big break occurs, and even though Trevor won the Daytona 500 last year, that big break has yet to happen. I still think going to Roush about whether or not to accept the ride in Penske's #22 car may end up being what kills his career, because it appears that Bayne may actually have been Penske's first choice to replace Kurt Busch, but upon telling roush about it, Roush told him not to take it, and that mistake, and I think it was a huge mistake, may be the death blow to his career. Again, I hope it isn't because I think Bayne is one of the lynchpins of the sport's future, but there's a good chance that if Roush is forced to release him from his contract due to sponsorship issues, which would be the third time it will have happened to him, that Bayne might never get a second chance at a top ride and a long-term career in the sport. After all, there's that old saying, "three strikes and you're out", and being released by Roush, which Roush, under no circumstances wants to do, may be the third strike against Bayne. 384. Randy posted: 02.28.2012 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Juan Pablo - do not text and drive!!! 385. 10andJoe posted: 02.28.2012 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I still think going to Roush about whether or not to accept the ride in Penske's #22 car may end up being what kills his career, because it appears that Bayne may actually have been Penske's first choice to replace Kurt Busch, but upon telling roush about it, Roush told him not to take it, and that mistake, and I think it was a huge mistake, may be the death blow to his career." Maybe we should give this sort of thing a name; "Ward Burtoning" might be one term for it. "Ward Burtoning - the torpedoing of one's own career through overloyalty to one's current team." (Given that Ward had lots of offers to leave BDR, including from Childress my brain wants to recall, and turned them all down...well, we know how that story ended.) 386. ch posted: 02.28.2012 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 98 really should have Phil Parsons as the owner and not Dusty Whitney. Yes, Whitney still owns some of the team, but Parsons is the majority owner. It is Phil Parsons Racing after all... 387. 1995z71 posted: 02.28.2012 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "#360: "WAIT! Isnt Danica driving for Tommy Baldwin Racing & not Stewart Haas?" Tommy Baldwin is the listed owner due to the points swap that took place, that was done to secure NASCAR's approval of the deal. The cars are prepared by Stewart-Haas, though, and the pit crew is Stewart-Haas. However, when Reutimann is in the #10, those car will be from TBR, but apparently still with over the wall help from Stewart-Haas. Probably more complicated than it needs to be, isn't it?" So that needs to be fixed then right??? 388. Red posted: 02.28.2012 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the serious race fans on this forum, I recently discovered a terrific website called MotorsportsAnalytics.com. It's like $4.25/month to access the premium content, but I think it's well worth it. The guy who runs the site is a professional racing talent evaluator, and he uses a blend of stats, scouting, and insider information to analyze NASCAR and its feeder series. Kind of like the racing version of Moneyball. Most of the mainstream NASCAR media just focuses on senationalism and pre-written narratives (like Danica), so it's nice to read stuff that's objective and relevant to what's actually happening on the track. 389. Ryan posted: 02.28.2012 - 11:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But then Jr showed up. Hell, him (Kenseth) and Biff hooked up in a tandem." Jr. did not just show up... He was in the top five for the last 50 laps. He ran a good clean race, he just didn't have any help. All his teammates were in the garage, Smoke was in the back. He had a good car, and a good motor, and a good handle. He drove a very smart race and actually put himself in position to win like his father did so many times. That's something to be proud of and to build on for sure (hopefully). He was killing Biffle's back bumper for over a lap. Biffle wouldn't go and I believe he dragged the breaks. It would have been cool for Jr. to lead the last lap which would have been his only lap he led all night, sort of like his dad could have done in '99. He had a good Speedweeks. Finished 2nd in the Duel, ran up front in the 300 and 500. Hopefully something to build on... 390. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm surprised this hasn't gotten any responses yet, but considering the debate for SPEED's Great American Grid of the top 43 Daytona 500 drivers of all-time, I'm surprised nobody has yet commented on my top 43, which I promised I'd deliver. I had to wait to release my top 43, because of how this year';s Daytona 500 might affect how I listed some of the drivers, and boy did it. For instance, Matt Kenseth moved from near the bottom of my list, if he would have been on it at all, to the middle of the pack (21st), Dale Earnhardt, Jr. also moved up to 15th all-time on my list with his third runner-up finish, becoming just the sixth driver ever to finish second at least three times, though no other signinficant moves up were made by any other active drivers. You can read posts 109 and 121 to piece together SPEED's list. My list, and how I came up with it can be seen in post 365. And by the way, Mat Kenseth's 50 laps were the most led by a Daytona 500 winner since Dale Earnhardt, Jr. led 59 in the 2004 race, and his leading the final 38 laps were the most consecutive laps to the end led by a winner since Dale Earnhardt, Sr. led the final 61 in 1998. By the way, the laps led totals by the previous five Daytona 500 winners (2007-'11) totaled a paltry 27 laps in the lead, which included three races going over 500 miles due to NASCAR's GWC rule. (Trevor Bayne-6 in 2011, Jamie McMurray-2 in 2010, Matt Kenseth-7 in 2009, Ryan Newman-8 in 2008, Kevin Harvick-4 in 2007) 391. FHgrad99 posted: 02.29.2012 - 12:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This capped off the craziest, most bizarre speedweeks ever. We'll be talking about Speedweeks 2012 for a long time, I'm sure. 392. Cooper posted: 02.29.2012 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Frankly cjs, I like your list better than Speed's. At least you got Sterling AHEAD of Kevin Harvick. When I saw Speed put Sterling at #13 BEHIND Kevin Harvick I basically started to laugh. No serious sporting entity would dishonestly rank people because they "Like Them". And that's what Speed channel did. Actually, now that I mention it, the one thing that I HATE about NASCAR, is the damn politics. There is no bigger bias than that of the Fox/Speed entity. If Fox had it there way, they would have a 10 man race every time. Here's basically all that Fox wants... Fox Dream 500 presented by Boogity Boogity Boogity Motor Oil. The race starts on the last lap, and there is a MINIMUM of 3 GWC. Row 1 -Danica Patrick -Dale Earnhardt Jr. Row 2 -Kyle Busch -Michael Waltrip Row 3 -Jeff Gordon -Jimmie Johnson Row 4 -Carl Edwards -Kevin Harvick Row 5 -Mark Martin -Good 'OL DW The Fox crew would basically have a good old fashion love party. They wouldn't make it 1 lap without slopping all over each other....lol BTW Unrelated: Technically the worst restrictor plate race from that era would be the 2000 New Hampshire race. Technically. 393. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.29.2012 - 1:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I was talking about Daytona 500s I got to see. Or more accurately, actually knew what I was watching. The first one I remember watching was the 1990 version. I was still one month from turning 6. My earliest memories of racing are of the 1989 stretch run, pulling for Earnhardt cause Dad was pulling for Earnhardt to win the Winston Cup. So of the races since then, 2000 was the worst. When the 1972 Daytona 500 happened, my Dad was still 3 months from graduating high school, and Mom was still a junior. So I'll take your word for it. I think your list is good. Big points from me for leaving Derrike Cope off. Other than his win (when in fairness he did put himself in position in case something insane happened like Dale blowing a tire on the last corner of the last lap) he never made much noise in that race. Ironically, probably his 2nd best run was in 1998 when he ran with the leaders for a while. Surprised nobody mentioned this. This was the 50th anniversary of Fireball Roberts' win in this race. And the track got one of its corners enveloped in a giant fireball. I guess it would be more poetiic had he not died from complications from being in a giant fireball. But he was Earnhardt before Earnhardt. Hard charger and fan favorite. 394. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.29.2012 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, you are right about what was truly the worst restrictor plate race. 395. 10andJoe posted: 02.29.2012 - 5:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Phoenix entry list is out. 44 drivers: - Reutimann in the #10 - Riggs in the #23 - Josh Wise in the #26 - Gaughan in the #33 - Timmy Hill in the #37 - Kvapil in the #93 Looks like Hill's debut was moved up, since the original reports were he wouldn't debut until California or Texas? 396. martin-n-rusty posted: 02.29.2012 - 6:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, can we forget that debacle in New Hampshire 12 years back?!? 397. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 11:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Cooper, I rated the drivers based on how they performed in the Daytona 500, not necessarily whether or not they won the race. That's why drivers such as Ken Schrader, Dick Brooks, Charlie Glotzbach, and Neil Bonnett (who I probably should have put higher), and even Joe Ruttman are on the list, and drivers such as Derrike Cope, Pete Hamilton, Jamie McMurray, and Trevor Bayne (not enough expericence) are not. I also made performance in the qualifying races somewhat important, since they are an important part of the race's history, even if they're unimportant now, and Bonnett (twice), Scrhader (twice), and Glotzbach all won qualifying race, while Bobby Isaac, the first four-time qualifying race winner also was placed on the list largely for his performance in the qualifying races, though he did run well in the 500 itself, but just didn't have the luck, except for 1973, when he finished second. But completing the list was far more difficult than I could have imagined, because there were about 10-12 qualified drivers, of which I could only pick four or five. Had I made the list 50 drivers (and they used to start 50 in the Daytona 500, and I think they should again), drivers such as Rusty Wallace, Ricky Rudd, Darel Dieringer, Coo Coo Marlin (all of whom except Wallace won a qualifying race), as well as Daytona 500 winners Ward Burton and Pete Hamilton probably would have made the list. And it looks like all the entries 10andJoe posted for the Phoenix race, except for the #93 car will probably be start-and-parks, which there will probably be at least seven or eight of, I haven't seen the entire entry list yet, but the rest look like S&P's to me, and we know the Joe Nemechek will be one, as well. 398. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 11:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to mention that Reutimann in the #10 will run the full race, as well. Sorry about that oversight. 399. Rusty posted: 02.29.2012 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The BK Racing team has gotten full licensing rights from Burger King Co., good for them. When we look back at this race historically, the only reason we'll remember the 2012 Daytona 500 was because it was the first 500 ran on a Monday and the Montoya incident. The race itself wasn't too memorable. Wasn't horrible, just not memorable. Also, I think NASCAR shouldn't go straight from Daytona to the west coast like they do. Especially with the 500 being delayed a day, teams are scrambling to move from Daytona Beach to Phoenix. If they want to run the 2nd race of the season out west, they should have an offweekend after Speedweeks. I miss the days of going to Rockingham right after Daytona. 400. 10andJoe posted: 02.29.2012 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd assume Gaughan will be running the full race.* *Until he crashes, at any rate... 401. 10andJoe posted: 02.29.2012 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Josh Wise has confirmed (via Twitter) that he's supposed to be in the #26 for the remainder of the season. 402. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting that some people have the opinion that the series shouldn't go straight to the west coast right after Daytona. Let's not forget that from 1970-'81, NASCAR started the season on the west coast (Riverside, CA exactly), then went to Daytona for SpeedWeeks and the 500. Frankly, if they had done that this year, start the season at Phoenix, Las Vegas, or Auto Club Speedway, some of the fears about the fuel injection, and the few problems that resulted from it in the 500 itself, might not have taken place. One reason they used to start the season with a race at Riverside was to get the kinks with the new cars and team combinations worked out before going to the biggest race, the Daytona 500. But in 1982, in one of the most important milestones in the history of the event, which is never brought up by anybody, the Daytona 500 was moved to the opening race of the season. That meant that the new drvier/team combinations, as well as the new cars for the season only had a 125-mile qualfying race to work out any problems, which may still be insufficient for new combinations to be worked out before the sport's biggest event. However, has anybody noticed that Richard Petty's team has not won the Daytona 500 after it was moved to be the season opener in 1982, but won it nine times in 21 attempts before it was moved to be the season opener? 403. Rob posted: 02.29.2012 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about that fire. ive never seen that in all my years watching racing. and Racefanx is teh biggest stat geek ive ever seen. they have a comment on every page on this site. 404. Anonymous posted: 02.29.2012 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg4HQmtmTEc Jr and Keselowski racing to the porta potty... priceless. 405. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was just announced that the crew chief and car chief of the #48 car have been suspended for six races for their violations in inspection at Daytona. Now fans of that teams will complain that their penalty was too harsh, while the #15 car wasn't penalized for their car being too low after post-qualifying inspection other than their time being disallowed. But the difference is intent and tampering with equipment. There was no obvious intent on the #15 car's violation, while the #48 team, as usual, was tampering with their "C" post (ironic considering what happened in the 500) in an obvious attempt to cheat. Ironically, if they had run in the 500 with that tampered "C" post, Jimmie Johnson might have been seriously injured, or worse, because that's where Johnson's car was hit broadside by David Ragan in that lap 2 crash. It's time for Rick Hendrick to fire Chad Knaus, because this infraction, if it hand't been uncovered by the inspectors, might have resulted in serious injuries to Johnson, if not death. 406. Neal posted: 02.29.2012 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872 - Ragan t-boned Johnson at the A-Pillar. The C-Pillar is in the rear-window area. 407. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, Neal. Thanks for correcting me. But that doens't change the fact that this is a very serious matter. Not from a competition point of view, but a safety point of view. Remember that in 2001 that Knaus was fined because of infractions in the seating area of the car of Stacy Compton, who he was crew chief for at that time, so this isn't even Knaus' first violation in regards to the safety aspect of the car. Hendrick is appealing the penalties, but the fact that Hendrick keeps backing Knaus, despite his long history of cheating has already put him at odds of one of his other crew chiefs, Alan Gustafson, who had some harsh things to say about Knaus during FOX's Daytona 500 qualifying show regarding the integrity of how the cars are set up. Frankly, I could care less about whether or not a crew chiefs readily cheats when it comes to the competition aspect of the sport, but when it comes to cheating when it comes to the safety aspect of the sport, as Knaus did here, the penalty should be extremely harsh. And let's not forget that this isn't the first safety infraction committed by a Hendrick Motorsports crew chief. Remember back in 1995, when Jeff Gordon swept the All-Star Race's three segments with lightweight hubs? They didn't get caught then, but when they brought those same hubs back for the Coca-Cola 600, it caused a wheel to fall off, as well as a fire to break out in that same area of the car. Ray Evernham was fined $60,000, a record at that time for the infraction. It's one thing to mess around with engines, tires, and even types of fuel as Penske and Michael Waltrip were caught doing to gain an advantage on the competition. But it's another thing entirely to commit a safety violation as Chad Knaus has now done for the second time. That may be why the penalty was as big as it was, and frankly, it's not big enough, unless it was a maximum penalty, which it might have been for this particular infraction. 408. Bronco posted: 02.29.2012 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's time for Rick Hendrick to fire Chad Knaus, because this infraction, if it hand't been uncovered by the inspectors, might have resulted in serious injuries to Johnson, if not death." Lol, you might want to check where the C-pillars are located on a car. And guys like Knaus, Gordon, Johnson, Earnhardt Jr, and their crew chiefs are all at the point where they aren't going to be fired no matter how poorly they perform, or what gets caught on camera and uploaded to YouTube, or however much they tamper with their cars. As I said in #341, Jimmie Johnson and Michael Waltrip are now the only drivers to enter the second race of the year with negative points. The difference is Waltrip didn't make another race after Daytona until the spring Dover event, while Johnson could easily score a top 10 at Phoenix and get back in it, although the HMS didn't finish better than 14th at the last Phoenix race. 409. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.29.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, I agree about heading straight to the West Coast after Daytona. As far as missing them racing at Rockingham the week after, I just plain miss them racing at Rockingham. So it is hard to be objective on that issue. But I always thought it was cool that they went from all the hullabaloo and hype and pomp and circumstance of the 500 to plain ol' Rockingham, a small high banked track that eats tires up and places a complete premium on handling. They also used to go straight to the short track in Richmond for a while, but that was usually hampered by weather issues. From numerous snow outs to freezing temps (wasn't it like 15 degrees there when Mark won his infamous race there in 1990?) it made Rockingham a better next race. Although it could still get pretty cold there too. Chad Knaus will get to crew chief a grand total of 1 green flag lap over the first 7 races of the season. He got the hammer layed on him. Again. Congrats Chad, you have been blessed with one of the best drivers in NASCAR history, but you have caused us all to doubt the validity of his incredible accomplishments. Your ego has damaged JJ's legacy. Oh well, as an Earnhardt fan I will have that in my back pocket for anyone who tried to claim JJ is better than Dale was. Like Ray Evernham gave me a great argument against the "Gordon is better than Earnhardt" debate. You know, if people want to ignore the fact Dale didn't get settled into his best ride until he was 33 (Jeff was 21 when he got his ride that didn't fall apart) and that the fields were more stacked during Dale's dominance. And HMS has the gall to appeal this! How many times has that asshole and his receding hairline been busted big? And you are gonna try to defend him again? This is far reaching and puts a cloud over everything HMS has EVER accomplished. If I were NASCAR, I would use the hearing to increase his suspension to 10 races. He would also have to be forced to admit to having hair implant surgery. Man I hate Chad Knaus. 410. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.29.2012 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, a huge middle finger to Brad Daughtery. From somebody who bleeds Carolina Blue. Saying Brad K tweeting during a prolonged red flag is "inappropriate" and calling for him to be fined and saying he should be focused only on the race. So it is ok for everyone to be horsing around on the backstretch, but pulling out a cell phone to interact with the fans is out of line? The only thing Brad K should be fined for is losing the foot race with Dale Jr to the porta shitter, then not tipping it over once June stepped in. What is "inappropriate" is having an active team owner on the broadcast team. What a loser. Literally. He never won anything. Not in the pros, and not in college despite being on some of the best Tar Heel teams ever (he had Michael Freaking Jordon on the perimeter, a center's dream). And his commentary sucks!!! He adds NOTHING to the broadcast. Even Rusty can make a good observation about once every two months. Man I hate that ESPN infield studio! Though I must say Nicole is pretty freaking hot! 411. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, I was corrected in terms of where the "C" post is, but my overall point about jeopardizing the safety of the driver stands. I think Hendrick should fire Knaus, not just because of the constant cheating, but because of the fact that his cheating has, at times, put his own driver at risk, like it could have done this time. And also Hendrick's backing of Knaus may wind up putting him at odds with one of his other crew chiefs, Alan Gustafson, who had harsh words for how Knaus prepared his cars compared to the other crew chiefs at Hendrick. DSFF, I also mentioned in an earlier post how NASCAR used to START the season on the west coast, then go to Daytona for SpeedWeeks and the 500, something they did for 12 years. But I disagree with you about saying the field was stacked when Earnhardt dominated the sport, because that's simply not true. Earnhardt dominated the sport at a time when it was in transition from the legends that dominated from the 60s to the group of drivers that Earnhardt had a mental stranglehold on. If anything, the drivers that Earnhardt beat when he dominated the sport were probably the weakest group of drivers in the sport's history, from a mental standpoint, at least. When Earnhardt had to go head-to-head with guys like Petty, Yarborough, Allison, and Baker, among others, he never fared well, and the same was true when he had to battle Gordon and even Rusty Wallace. That's a fact that was brought up in 2001 by no less an autority than Richard Petty himself. But Gordon had to deal with many of the same drivers that Earnhardt mentally dominated, and except for Darrell Waltrip, who was no longer a factor, and Bill Elliott, who struggled with his own team, Gordon showed that he could beat everyone on any kind of track, something Earnhardt could never do consistently. And he didn't have to intimidate them to do it. He simply outdrove them, and when he had a car that was lacking, his crew chief made up for it, much like Kirk Shelmerdine, who never gets the credit he deserves as a great crew chief, did. In fact, Mark Martin created the "move over" strategy just to make sure that Earnhardt wouldn't run over him. I rank Gordon ahead of Earnhardt because he was (and is) more versatile than Earnhardt, and I'll rank Gordon ahead of Bobby Allison when he gets his next (86th) win, if he wins again. 412. 10andJoe posted: 02.29.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As far as missing them racing at Rockingham the week after, I just plain miss them racing at Rockingham." Preach it, brother. Bring on the Trucks and a salute to Andy Hillenburg! Ollie's Bargain Outlet seems to be pleased as punch with the TV time they got with that red flag - they're back on the 36 this week. While David Ragan's 34 gets sponsored by Barrett-Jackson. 413. Rusty posted: 02.29.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm aware they used to do something similar. I just think going straight out West from Daytona may be a little much for teams. But you gotta get those west coast races in at some point I guess. Also, agreed with DSFF on Daugherty. Guy is so annoying. Just because he likes racing and used his NBA money to buy a team doesn't make him a NASCAR analyst. The ESPN crew may be bad, but nothing will top the Waltrip brothers. I don't think I'm going to watch anymore FOX preraces. Mikey and Darrell talking at the same time makes me want to kick cute little puppies. I lost a lot of respect for FOX when they pretty much demoted Hammond into the Tim Brewer role of occasionally giving us info on mechanics to give us more Michael Waltrip. The last thing we all need, except for maybe more Danica Patrick coverage. Maybe. 414. Eric posted: 02.29.2012 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really hope the suspension gets increase to 12 races since Hendrick has the balls to appeal this. I though Chad got off light considering the fact this is now Chad's 10th time getting penalized by NASCAR since the start 2001 season. I know Chad was penalized by NASCAR 9 times from 2001 to 2007, but his history is long in terms of being trouble with NASCAR. 415. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For those that think Brad Daugherty is annoying, I'll take it a step further. He has absolutely no business being a "racing" analyst. Just because he co-owns a NASCAR team doesn't make him an expert on the sport. That would be the same thing as putting someone like Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, or Kevin Harvick on an NBA broadcast just because they own an NBA team. They have no expertise at all on the sport, just as Daugherty has no expertise at all on racing. Remember that when Terry Bradshaw co-owned a NASCAR Nationwide Series team some years back, FOX never put him on their broadcast team to my knowledge, because they knew he had no expertise in the sport. I know what I'm about to say is going to rile some people to no end, but I think a major reason ESPN put Daugherty on their broadcast team has to do with the color of his skin, in order to try to ramp up the diversity program, and no real reason other than that. 416. 18fan posted: 02.29.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least FOX didn't put Michael Waltrip in the booth. I can't stand him with Phil Parsons on truck races, and the couple times that the Waltrip brothers called races together in the booth it was beyond unwatchable. But I never watched the FOX prerace show before they put Michael in the studio, so I doubt that anything will change for me. 417. Anonymous posted: 02.29.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Didn't know that bit about Fireball Roberts. Bless his Soul in Heaven. I like to go back and re-watch classic Daytona 500's. The complaints about the 90's races are, somewhat, one-sided. Maybe that's just me though. I found 1990-1992 boring as hell. Save for: Earnhardt's curse becoming obvious in 1990, that late race restart and wreck in 1991, and that HUGE wreck in 1992, they were mostly sleepers. 1993-1994 Were entertaining. Quite so, in my opinion. 1995 and 1996 were just in between. Nothing really hooked me in them, save for the fact that the '96 race must of been sponsored by Rat Poison or something, the field was just taking itself apart piece by piece it seemed. Nothing big, just a bunch of small incidents. 1997 was, in my opinion, a HELLUVA exciting race. Not even crash wise, I'm talking race wise, I was quite entertained. I'm probably the only one that was entertained by going back and watchign that race some 15 years in the future, but nevermind. 1998 was Boring, and in my full opinion, fixed. 1999 was slightly better then mediocre 2000 was lame, but better then 1998 and 1990. 2001 was epic, excluding Earndhart's death. 2002 was epic. 2003 was just okay. The rain cut what, nearly 45 percent of the race off? I can't really judge it that well. 2004 was totally lame. Not fixed, just lame. 2005-2008 was good. 2009 was a slight downstep from 2005-2008, but still good. 2010 was great. and 2011 was pure EPICNESS! This year, I'd rank better then the crapshoots of 1990, 1998, 2000. 418. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.29.2012 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, the Waltrip Brothers also make me want to kick cute puppies. And cjs, you are saying having Daughtery in the booth as an "expert" would be like having an NBA owner in the booth who knows nothing about running an NBA team. Should I make the Michael Jordan joke or do you want to? I want my $5 back for the Charlotte Bobcats shirt I bought at Goodwill. In all seriousness I agree 100% with your points about him. Including the diversity bit. It is hard to talk about because it can sound like racism, but it is the truth. 419. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No DSFF. What I was saying was that just being the owner of an NBA team with no prior knowledge of basketball would not make him qualified to be an expert analyst. That's exactly what Brad Daugherty is. A man who happens to be a co-owner of a NASCAR team that ESPN hired to be an expert analyst, who happens to have very little, if any true knowledge of the sport at all. And yes, I think ESPN is using him to push for diversity. That's not a racist opinion, as I am not a racist at all. I think ESPN hired him as a NASCAR analyst for that reason, to push the diversity subject, because there's no other reason to have him on the NASCAR broadcasts, especially when basketball, both on the pro and college level is going on, where Daugherty would have a great deal of expertise, and would be of great use, either in a studio or as an in-game analyst. As for your Michael Jordan point, if ever there was someone qualified to be an analyst on basketball, it would be him, the greatest player that ever lived, but he might make for a good analyst, just like Richard Petty was not that good of an analyst for the few NASCAR races he worked for TBS and CBS in 1994-'95, while those networks were actively seeking an adequate replacement for Neil Bonnett. 420. Hugo Stiglitz posted: 02.29.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was too disgusted to watch the last 40 laps. God forbid someone like Dave Blaney gets to take home the silverware. We all know that it Ass-Clown Jr. had been out front at the red, NA$CAR would have called that race. 421. cjs3872 posted: 02.29.2012 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or another star driver, Hugo Stiglitz. Remember how long it took NASCAR to call the Coca-Cola 600 in 2009 in the heavy rain when David Reutimann was leading when it obvious that they would never be able to restart the race. How long do you think it would've taken for them to call that race if Kasey Kahne, Kyle Busch, or one of the other top drivers had been leading? Not very long, I can promise you, because they prefer the star drivers and teams winning the big races, which in turn makes them even bigger stars. 422. Mr X posted: 02.29.2012 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not to disprove your theory cjs, in general I agree with most of your opinions but as someone who works full time in an auto graveyard, from what I saw Chad Knaus was only messing with the outer skin of the racecar, specifically the C-pillar which for the sake of everyone is the third pillar from the front of the car holding up the roof on both sides between the rear quarter window and the rear windshield. The outer skin of these cars hold basically zero structural integrity, the entire body is made from 24 gauge sheet metal rolled by hand in the fab shop and welded in place. 24 Gauge is thinner then the steel in your passenger car, which varies between 20 and 14 gauge. With onboard cameras you can frequently see the hood buffeting in the wind. Remember the victory lane gate in 2001, some PVC pipe to keep drivers off the roof in the winner's circle, or Clint Bowyer's winning #33 car from Loudon in September of 2010, where the car passed pre-race, and post-race inspection however was taken to NASCAR's R&D center where the rear deck lid was found to be 0.060" too high, potentially caused by the slight knudge into victory lane by the flat bed truck. Watch Dale Earnhardt's roof when he stands on it after winning the 1998 Daytona 500, or Rusty Wallace jump on his roof and hood after winning the title in 1989, there are many places on these race cars where if an average healthy weight person could sit on the body, create a dent or crease, and it would cause the car to fail post-race tech. Your street car is the same way. The Fenders, hood, roof, rear quarter panels, spoiler, deck lid, and front bumper are examples. The only reason why the piece of sheet metal around the pillar areas are stronger is because the metal has a more definite curve to it. Nothing adds strength like an arch. All the stregth in the chassis of these cars comes from the frame rails and roll cage, and actually the motor aswell. Unless Chad was fiddling with the roll bars beneath which I don't believe he was safety really wasn't comprimised at all. And dispite the fact that the car never made it onto the track under competition I agree with putting and sneaky crew chief in his place, and even though I like Jimmie, I am going to enjoy the science experiment that is Jimmie without Chad in 2012 as opposed to 2006, when the replacement was Darian Grubb. Nothing else needs to be said about that. From what I heard Chad was just trying to alter the curve on the c-pillar to alter the flow of air away from the rear spoiler reducing drag, making the car faster, needless to say, NASCAR wasn't pleased. 423. NazRacePhan posted: 03.01.2012 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Even Danica is ahead of Jimmie Johnson in points! negative 23 points... LOVE IT!!!!!! 424. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I respect your opinion Mr X, especially if, as you say, you know the inner workings of the car. My point was that fooling around with the chassis, especially in a potentially vulnerable area for the driver, is a huge problem, no matter the reason. And while Chad Knaus was undoubtedly trying to gain an aerodynamic advantage, he was also fooling around with something that could potentially put his own driver at risk, especially in the light of Jimmie's crash and more importantly, Juan Montoya's crash with the jet drier. One reason I think NASCAR does not want the mechanics fooling around with the chassis of the new car is due to the safety elements that could be put at risk, as well as the possible competitve advantage that could be gained. After all, the newer, bigger cars were created first and foremost for the safety of the drivers, and under no conditions does NASCAR want the major reason for the new car's introduction to be compromised in any way, no matter how minor it might be. 425. b4il3y posted: 03.01.2012 - 2:21 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) 1998 was Boring, and in my full opinion, fixed. Stopped reading. 426. 10andJoe posted: 03.01.2012 - 2:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Ditto. Also, this Now For Something Completely Different moment is sponsored by Red Line Oil. Long-time sponsor of Phil Bonifield, who provides a reality check for those who complain about start-and-parking. I just crunched Bonifield's stats as part of some comments on another board that originated in Dave Blaney being called the posted boy of S&P. Having a long memory for the Truck Series, I decided to go look up ol' Phil's numbers. They are NOT pretty. 70 Truck Series starts...64 start and parks. (2003: 21 starts, 18 DNFs, 17 S&Ps...and 20th in points!) 8 Busch Series starts...7 start and parks. 2 West Series starts...50%, yup, start and park. 427. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.01.2012 - 6:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 420 and 421 Or have an upset that people can talk about!!! Please, I feel had a star driver been up front, they would of did the same. I find the "fixed" stuff a load of horse crap 428. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 8:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin-n-rusty, I agree that they would have still tried to finish the race Monday night/Tuesday morning, no matter who was leading. The point I was trying to make was more on the lines of what happened at Charlotte a few years ago when it was obvious that they wouldn't get the race restarted and it took much longer than it should have to call the race. Given their preference, NASCAR would prefer the star drivers to win the big races, but as was the case in almost every important race last year, that was certainly not the case. And also, some of the predictions I've made have already come true, while others have not. I had predicted that there might be a start-and-park in the Daytona 500, and there was in the form of Robby Gordon. I also predicted that the veterans would strike back in the big events, and Matt Kenseth's win backed that up. Ironically, I predicted Matt Kenseth would win last year's Daytona 500, so I was off by a year. (Kevin Harvick was my pick this year, but the Chevrolets lacked speed, though Jeff Burton did lead 24 laps.) I just hope my start-and-park prediction of possible double-digit star-and-parks in some Cup races doesn't come true. 429. Scott B posted: 03.01.2012 - 10:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske is being reported as switching to Ford next season. While I've been expecting them to bail on Dodge, the timing is interesting since the 2013 Charger proposal for Cup was just recently previewed. Dodge obviously isn't going to hang around just for Robby Gordon to run a few races, so either they're out of here, or another team will be announcing a switch soon. But if another team switches, it would have to be a team that has an internal engine program, wouldn't it? No organization really jumps out at me as a prospect to do that, soooooo...I'm guessing Dodge is done with Cup. 430. Anonymous posted: 03.01.2012 - 11:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Penske is making a bad move going to Ford. I am not saying that because of the brand, but for two reasons. Being the only true dodge team is a great reason to move, but I don't think is any other good fit for Penske because Toyota wants every team to use their crappy engine and Penske would be the 3rd or 4th team for Chevy since they have Hendrick and RCR. The first reason it is bad because of Jack Roush. Roush is the top ford team and he is known to make other Ford teams weaker in the past like he did with Yates, Wood Bros as examples.Roush is known to make that you need his equipment and the fact is he gives other teams crappy equipment. While Penske would having their own engines, and bodies the question would be how much support Ford would be giving Penske with the relationship they have with Jack Roush. The second reason is while Penske won races with Ford, his organization dropped performance wise despite being competitive. 431. Cooper posted: 03.01.2012 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm very disappointed for Brad and for Roger. I've been a Dodge guy since I was a kid. For Brad, he began his career driving Fords for his families truck team. In the big scheme it doesn't matter, but I just love the whole Chrysler/Dodge program. Oh well. 432. Smiff_99 posted: 03.01.2012 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I saw what appeared to be a leaked photo of the 2013 Dodge Charger.....and it looked amazing, from what I can tell. It'd be a shame if we never got to see it on-track.... Oh, here's the link to the photo, too, for those of you who hadn't seen it yet... http://www.jayski.com/teams/dodge.htm 433. Anonymous posted: 03.01.2012 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot about Stewart-Haas and Penske would have been the 4th on the Chevy food chain. Still it sucks where Penske would have switched to anyway because Dodge isn't the ideal car make for an organization right now. 434. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trust me, Anonymous (#430), if Jack Roush thinks he can screw around with Penske like has has with the other Ford teams, he messing with the wrong man, because nobody, and I mean nobody bullies Roger Penske. But we may now know why Penske fired Kurt Busch. And doesn't it now seem strange that Richard Petty, another Ford team owner, was the one that reccomended that Penske hire A.J. Allmendinger when he couldn't guarantee sponsorship for Allmendinger for the 2012 season. And now we may also know why Ford didn't balk when Allmendinger drove Michael Shank's car in the 24-Hours of Daytona ealier this year. The dots were connecting and we didn't even know it. And could this mean that Petty and maybe even the Wood Brothers might eventually align themselves with Penske, who's more trustworthy that Roush can ever be considered. But how might this affect Penske's IRL engine situation is something we don't know yet. And this may also answer the question of why Penske sought out David Ragan and Trevor Bayne when he fired Kurt Busch. This makes Bayne's decision not to sign with Penske when he had the chance even more puzzling, though I don't think that Penske has taken his eye off him for a minute. When Roger Penske thinks you're a driver worth hiring, that's a high reccomendation as well, and now that Penske's back in the Ford fold, I wouldn't be surprised if, considering Bayne's precarious sponsorship situation in both the Cup and Nationwide series this year that Penske doesn't take another shot at hiring him to drive a third car in 2013 if things don't change for him where sponsorship is involved. 435. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.01.2012 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stunner! I'm gonna be pulling with all my heart for a Ford next year. I really will. Cause Brad is my guy. I like Matt a lot and have been very happy when he has success, but I haven't been emotionally attached to him like I have with Brad. The only other driver I have been attached to on that level was Dale. And I gotta be honest, the old Earnhardt fan in me is still deep inside, can I can hear him saying "what the hell? a Ford?!?". Dale was the ultimate Chevy guy, and Ford is their mortal enemy. He drove Fords for Bud Moore for two years, and to his dying day he mentioned how much he respected Bud and was honored to drive his cars, and bemoaned the fact their partnership never had a chance because Ford wouldn't give them the support they needed. Dale always resented Ford for that. But I'll get over that. Brad is my guy. And the fact is I drive an '05 Mustang. (It's weird, I almost look at Mustang like its own brand, not really associating it with Ford in my mind, but maybe I am in denial). It will be interesting to see how the dominoes fall from here. Who will Dodge get for '13? 436. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 03.01.2012 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *eyeroll* Anytime that someone says that one of Johnson's race wins were fixed, everyone clambers on board. But as soon as anyone even states their opinion about a legendary Earnhardt win being fixed, throw them under the rug. *eyerolls again*. So...was Johnson pennalized? 437. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.01.2012 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for the '98 race being fixed, nothing was different in that race than the majority of every other Daytona 500 since 1990. Except in the end nothing happened to Dale. He didn't cut any tires, he didn't hit a seagull, he wasn't sneak attacked by an out of nowhere run by Dale Jarrett (considering they were running HMS motors at the time, and raw rookie Jeff Gordon keeping pace with him the entire race, and HMS' long history of cheating which continues, you have to wonder), and he didn't have a move out of his own playbook used against him like Jeff did in '97. In fact, Jeff had the best car in '98. But debris damaged his air dam (then he ultimately lost a cylinder). Had that not happened, Jeff wins 3 Daytona 500s in a row. He did not have a blatent advantage in that race. Hell, compared to 1990, he looked downright mortal. If you are looking for a "fixed" Earnhardt win, look at the 1992 World 600. With Ford T-Brids having won every race to that point, GM was flipping out. First off, in that race, the T-Birds were no match for 3 GM cars not known for Charlotte success, Kyle Petty (Sabates never had much on the intermediates), Ernie Irvan (ditto for MMM) and Earnhardt (hadn't won there since he swept them in '86). That is red flag #1. With those 3 running off from a badly beaten up Davey Allison, it was obvious a GM car would win. But which one? To really appease GM, what better way than to have their #1 car and driver (the GM sponsored car with the face of Chevrolet, Dale Earnhardt) win their 3rd biggest race? On the last pit stop he came in about 3 seconds behind the dominant Kyle and Ernie, and when the sequence was complete he was 4 seconds ahead despite having comprable pit stops. Did NASCAR turn a blind eye to major pit road speeding? Of course they did. Oddly enough, in that race one year later, with Dale already threatening to run off with the Winston Cup due to Rusty Wallace's inconsistency, and with the superior car that year, they called him for speeding in the pits, putting him a lap down. He regained it on a restart, then got the caution flag he needed when Greg Sacks lost it right in front of him (with Dale almost coming to a complete stop to avoid hitting him). In one of the worst calls ever, NASCAR penalized Dale one lap for rough driving. Of all the rough driving he did that they never called him for, they call him for a wreck he wasn't even close to causing? A pissed off Dale passed the leaders, got another caution, the blasted back by them and won it going away over some rookie with a bad mustache and a weird paint scheme whom Dale praised effusively in his post race comments. He got out of his car with that defiant smirk and did everything but look up at the scoring tower and give them a giant middle finger. Possibly my favorite Earnhardt win. And I was there! The first 600 to end at night, to which Dale said "they can start 'em whenever they like, I'll finish 'em!". 438. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you don't know that half of it. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. respected Bud Moore so much that when he started his third team for 2001 with driver Michael Waltrip, he used Moore's traditional #15 as a tribute, and Waltrip repaid the favor by winning two of the next three Daytona 500s. Waltrip now runs the #15 with driver Clint Bowyer, possibly as a tribute to Earnhardt's trust in him. As for the Ford situation for 2103 and beyond, it will be interesting who Richard Petty and the Wood Brothers, and even Front Row Motorsports partner up with, because I'll guarantee you that Penske is not going to give up his engine program. now Penske and Roush may team up on things, but Roush will never bully Penske as he did with Petty, the Woods, and Robert Yates. Penske going to Ford may open up things over there for more Ford teams being competitive, not just Roush. This may even the playing field between Ford and Chevrolet. One big advantage Chevrolet has had in recent yearsis the number of competitive teams. Chevy has Hendrick, Childress, Stewart-Haas, and even Ganassi joined the party a couple of years ago. Toyota has only had one (Joe Gibbs Racing), Ford has only had one (Roush Racing, which refused to allow any other Ford team to join the ranks of elite teams), and Dodge only had one competitve team (Penske)after Petty left as a result of the mergers begtween Petty Enterprises and what was originally Ray Evernham's team. But now that Penske, who seems to be the oppposite of Roush in every way, has rejoined the Ford ranks, I look for some of these other teams running Fords to also run much better in 2013, because they may get the same help from Penske that Penske got from McLaren many years ago. 439. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.01.2012 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, you don't know that half of it. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. respected Bud Moore so much that when he started his third team for 2001 with driver Michael Waltrip, he used Moore's traditional #15 as a tribute" That's true, I remember that. I wish I would have mentioned that. I just know he resented the hell out of Ford for not stepping up the way GM was doing at the time and killing any chance he had of doing anything notable with Bud. 440. Matt G posted: 03.01.2012 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't believe so many people are complaining about the racing in the 500. The only reason it didn't produce a more exciting finish is because Greg Biffle needs to grow a pair. He was in absolute perfect position to win that race and just stayed hooked up with his teammate instead of making the move when he sould have. Damn he sucks at plaet racing!!! Once Jr. hooked on to his back bumper he basically decided that instead of trying to win the race by pulling out on the backstretch when they had a run going, he was instead going to stay in line and eliminate any chance of Jr. winning (Therefore ensuring a Roush win). His plan was to pull out and pass Kenseth off turn four and grab the win there but he waited too long and Jr. made the move on him first. That is not NASCAR's fault - That's Biffle being gutless. His priorities were as follows..... 1) Make sure a Roush car - any Roush car - wins the race 2) Make sure Greg Biffle wins the race When instead they should have been... 1) Make sure Greg Biffle wins the race 2) Make sure a Roush car - any Roush car - wins the race Also, people are talking about how exciting last year's race was with all the lead changes? One problem with that - The first 450 miles of the 2011 Daytona 500 meant NOTHING because it was so easy to pass that the real race didn't begin until about 20 to go. The ONLY thing that mattered were the wrecks. This year we had a race where track position meant a little (not a lot) and having a good car + running a smart race could keep yo ahead of the big wrecks that were almost surly going to occur in the middle of the pack. This was just a situation where several good cars were eliminated early (Gordon, Bayne, Johnson, etc...) and two of the strongest cars left at the end where teammates who got hooked up and worked a little too well together (for my liking anyway). In fact, I would argue that many drivers underestimated how much being up front meant and were not aggressive enough in the lap 100 to lap 150 timeframe of the race. Once the drivers get a better handle on this, I think this style of racing has some real potential to put on a great show - And I don't even think this was bad (Just spoiled a little at the end by Biffle being a toolbag). 441. Matt G posted: 03.01.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And to tell you the truth, now that I know Biffle is more concerned with a Roush car winning than trying to win the Daytona 500 for himself, the finish wasn't even spoiled for me because I'm perfectly fine with that schmuck NEVER winning a crown jewl event like this. 442. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.01.2012 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 430 - Penske was a very competitive organization as a Ford. Of course, Rusty wasn't winning 8 or 10 races a year with the blue oval, but he was very competitive, always in the top 10 of the standings. When they went to Dodge, that seemed to hurt them. Before, when they had Fords, it was a given that at least one (if not two during the Mayfield and Newman years) car was going to be in the Top 10. In Dodges, only 7 times, did a driver in Penske finish in the Top 10, and some years, the Top 10 was barren of any Penske drivers. 443. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well martin-n-rusty, here's an interesting thing. In 1994, the first year that Penske ran Fords, Rusty Wallace won eight times, and then the team's performace dropped off, though the new Monte Carlo did have something to do with that, as did the departure of Buddy Parrott, though Rusty did win five times in 1996, he really wasn't that competitve from an overall standpoint. In 2003, the first year Penske ran Dodges, Ryan Newman won eight times, though a number of them came on mileage runs with oversized gas tanks. But again, their performance fell off badly after the first year after a manufacturer change, so if history is any indication, 2013 will be a big year for Penske, but they may struggle badly in 2014 and beyond. 444. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why can't anybody admit the truth about the finish of the Daytona 500. Greg Biffle's car was not as fast as Matt Kenseth's, as he couldn't even get to Kenseth's bumper in the closing laps. Yes, Biffle was waiting to make his move until the last turn of the last lap to make sure that a Roush car won the race, and then do what Kyle Busch did to Tony Stewart in the Shootout and draft by him at the start-finish line, but he couldn't even get up to Kenseth's bumper, even with drafting help. That same thing happened at Talladega a few years ago (2005 spring race) when Michael Waltrip and Tony Stewart were locked together and still couldn't catch Jeff Gordon. And by the way, Biffle has won a little race called the Southern 500 twice (2005-'06), so he has those two crown jewel wins, even if he doesn't get any more, and he does have a win in the Firecracker 400, the highest-profile points-paying race that isn't one of the crown jewels of the sport, doing so as a rookie in 2003. Are Dale Earnhardt, Jr.'s fans THAT delerious? 445. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.01.2012 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is true cjs, they could have a big year, but when they switched to Dodge, Penske just didn't place drivers in the Top 10 in points as often as the team used to. As for Biffle, even if he wasn't the fastest car, you are behind it. You should get a good draft at least. I will contend for as long as possible that Biffle chickened out, and was just playing defense, rather than attempt to bolster his resume. 446. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin-n-rusty, the reason that Penske didn't place his drivers in the top ten as often in their years with Dodge as often as they did with Ford has to do with simple math. While Roush had five cars for most of the last decade (placing all of five them in the top ten in 2005) and Hendrick had four, and Childress had four in some years, Penske only had two. Add that to the fact that, because of their association with Dodge, they fell woefully behind, and had an aging driver for three of those years who really didn't provide the organization with much, and Penske never really had a shot at the title and rarely placed a car in the top ten, even with a driver of Kurt Busch's caliber. And Biffle's car was slow at the end of the race, so slow that not only could he and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. not close in on Kenseth, but when Earnhardt made his move on Biffle at the finish, he nearly cleared Biffle by the start-finish line, and Earnhardt's car, like most of the Chevrolets, had very little speed themselves in the race. And if Biffle and Earnhardt tried the outside groove, Denny Hamlin would probably have finished second, because the outside groove just wasn't there for the entire race. Not even the two-car push, which is supposed to be much faster than the traditional draft, could make up any ground at all during the race, even before the Montoya incident. Nobody could make any moves on the outside, so it esentially a one-groove track, in that the outside just had no speed for the entire race. I think that's another reason why Biffle waited, but his car had lost it's speed from earlier in the race. 447. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.01.2012 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, cjs, Dale Jr fans are THAT delusional. Well, most of them. They try to blame everything on everyone else. And the media follows suit so as not to piss of the majority of their audience. His pit stop troubles are cause he needs better signs from his crews. He hasn't won cause of his crew chief. Teresa was way off base not letting a notorious slacker and partier take over DEI. Even though Teresa was Dale's soulmate and by far the brains behind all of Dale's business ventures, if you are to believe JR Nation, Big E would have wanted Dale Jr to push Teresa aside. They say JR winning would be "good" for NASCAR. I say bullshit. Nobody as unmotivated should even be at the top level of any sport, let alone be successful in it. We need to embrace motivated drivers instead like Jimmie Johnson (minus his tool of a crew chief) and Matt Kenseth instead of bemoaning their "boring" personalities. That would be good for the sport. June is the one who needs to be pushed aside. The worst part of all is the fact he has championship talent. With Big E, then Tony Sr riding his ass he won 15 races in 5 seasons. Yeah 7 were plate wins in cars even Michael Waltrip was winning in, but the other 8 were tough races. He won 3 times at Richmond, twice at Phoenix, he won at Dover, a Bristol Night race, and tire chewing Atlanta. I'd rather watch somebody win who is just a dick, like Kyle Busch or Kevin Harvick, as opposed to June. 448. Mr X posted: 03.01.2012 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm dissapointed with the switch to Ford for Penske Racing. In general I'm a GM guy, however I like all the American brands, it's Toyota that I can't stand with their racing involvement while maintaining probably the lowest performance image of any brand out on the street. Ford has no shortage of teams, Dodge does. Not to mention I don't think that Penske is behind because they run Dodge's. All of the current COT cars regardless of the brand have to fit under the same grid of templates. OTHER THEN A FEW DECALS TO MAKE THEM LOOK LIKE THEIR STREET COUNTERPARTS ALL THE BODIES ARE VIRTUALLY IDENTICAL! The only difference between the bodies is in the gray areas, where teams discover that they can alter the gray areas to make less/more drag/downforce, which varies from team to team, not make to make. The only part of the car that the manufacturer has any real involvement in is the engine, and even the motor is a joint project between the brand and team. The Ford FR9 is a creation of Ford Racing and Doug Yates. The Chevrolet R07 was developed between HMS engines, ECR engines, and GM Racing. Most of these teams actually have the tooling to design their own engines from scratch however NASCAR doesn't allow it. Basically the teams get a block which I would say is most likely fully machined out of the box or at least mostly machined, a pair of cylinder heads which have the intake and exhaust flanges machined, as well as the heads deck surface, valve cover flange and valve guides are probably drilled, other then that its a raw casting as teams do their own porting and chamber work, aswell as valve seats. The intake most likely has the flanges where it meets up with the heads machined aswell as the flange for the 4150 style Holley carburetor or in the case of 2012 the Holley EFI, which makes me want to cringe, but I'm stuck in the stone age. The Crank probably shows up in a box mostly machined however teams most turn the crank's main and rod journals to the desired diameter and balance the rotating assembly very precisely. The rest of the parts are all either bought from other companies or machined in house. All in all I would say you could judge a Racing engine on three basic parameters, horsepower and torque, fuel economy, and durability. Based on what I've seen between the Chevrolet R07, Ford FR9, Dodge R6P8, and Toyota engine of which I don't know its name I would rank the as follows from best to worst between 2010 and 2011. However the EFI and Electronic ignition could change things drastically and we're only one restrictor plate race into the season, we'll have to see which teams can gain the most power from the new combination later in the year. However the number of cars on track from each brand could cause these numbers to be a little skewed. RP engine packages aren't taken into account. Horsepower and torque Ford/Chevrolet- (Tied, Fords design in the water jackets allow them to keep it cool very efficiently, allowing them to run more tape on the grille causing more front downforce, meaning they can get back to the gas sooner, making the straight longer, at least partially giving the illusion of more power.) Dodge- (Right behind Ford & Chevrolet.) Toyota- (Significantly behind, on fresh tires it becomes obvious.) Fuel Economy Chevrolet- (Easily number one here, especially the ECR equipped cars. They are usually the last to hit pitroad for fuel.) Dodge- (Not far behind Chevrolet.) Toyota- (They lack power and the Gibbs cars were bitten by this bug many times in 2010 and 2011.) Ford- (First on pit road for fuel every time, especially the RPM cars. Even broadcasts mention this.) Durability Chevrolet- (Both HMS and especially the ECR packages are extremely durable.) Dodge- (Lack of engines but still they didn't scatter very many of them in last two years.) Ford- (I have been dissapointed with the durability of this engine considering how highly praised it is. They've turned quite a few into boat anchors.) Toyota- (Held together by chewing gum, scotch tape, and silly putty, as opposed to ARP fasteners.) Those looking to learn a little more about NASCAR engine packages here are some articles and videos. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-zxswaXG2k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Zo6EWVhNg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu9vLgupGBI http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0911_nascar_race_engines/ http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/hrdp_0803_chevy_nascar_engine/ 449. LordLowe posted: 03.01.2012 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have said it before and I will say it again why on earth does Dale Jr still have a job he should have been fired a long time ago. 450. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, does Dale, Jr. have championship talent? I say no. I say that because of his poor record at Hendrick Motorsports, even if it is in the car and the team cursed by Tim Richmond. You forget that Dale, Jr. lacks in one big area that other drivers are good at, and that is technical expertise. That is something that Dale, Jr. has NEVER had, and it's come to roost at Hendrick Motorsports, one of, if not the most technically savvy team in thne sport. His lack of technical expertise really sticks out like a sore thumb there. His lack of being able to diagnose what his car is doing didn't get him into that much trouble at DEI during the 2000-'04 seasons, because his equipment was dominant, especially in 2000 and 2004, when he scored nearly half his entire win total. But beginning in 2005, his lack of technical expertise was what began his downfall, because of NASCAR's gear ratio rule, which evened out the competition from a mechanical standpoint and put drivers like Dale, Jr. at a disadvantage, because he does not really know how to diagnose what his car is doing, and never has known how to do that, which is why he excels at just the plate tracks, because you don't have to do that in the four plate races, so his technical disadvantage is nullified there. Add that to the fact that he has lost focus over the last three or four years, and the Dale, Jr. experiment at Hendrick was doomed to fail from the start. 451. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.01.2012 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I disagree. Junior has championship talent, he just has a chump motivation. 452. Matt G posted: 03.01.2012 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I certainly hope you don't think I'm a Jr. fan cjs. I can't stand him either. Out of the four guys at the front at the end, I'm happy Kenseth won. Fact is, Biffle DID get to Kenseth's bumper at the begining of the backstretch and didn't pull out - And in the 2005 race you sight with Gordon at Talladega, there's just no way Kenseth's car in this race was as dominant as Gordon was that day. Gordon led 139 laps that day (72% of the race) and I don't think we've seen a performance on a plate track that one sided since. As far as the Crown Jewel events go, I think there's only three real ones left - The Daytona 500, the Coke 600, and the Brickyard 400. Bristol is ruined (that's another suject we don't need to get into right now) and the "Southern 500" is now run on the Saturday night before Mother's Day instead of on Labor Day weekend. That really diminishes its signifigance in my mind (even with last year's event being one of the more entertaining of the season). 453. cjs3872 posted: 03.01.2012 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh no, I'm not saying Kenseth was as dominant as Gordon was on that day at Talladega. What I am saying is that the finish reminded me of the finish of that race when two cars hooked up couldn't gain an inch on the leader. And you're incorrect about there not being another plate race as one-sided as Gordon's win in April of 2005 at Talladega. In fact, there was an even more one-sided one later that same year, as Tony Stewart led all but nine (of 160) laps in the Firecracker 400 that July. But I disagree with you about the Southern 500 not being a crown jewel any more. After all, it's still 500 miles on the oldest speedway that NASCAR has competed on (I don't include Indy in that, since NASCAR didn't race there until 1994), Darlington's still the toughest track on the circuit, so tough that men like 3-time champions Lee Petty and Tony Stewart, just to mention two, do not have a win on their record there. A main reason they moved that race, first to November and then to Mother's Day weekend was so they wouldn't have to battle rain every single year, as well as the lawsuit brought on by a fan. Remember that from 1997-2002, rain in some way affected the Southern 500 every year but one (1998), and rain was always a constant threat at Darlington on Labor Day weekend. And martin-n-rusty, while not being focused for the last three or four years has been a major issue with Dale, Jr., so is his inability to diagnose what his car is doing. That, more than anything else has been his undoing, as he has never been a very technical driver, and for a driver with that particular weakness, Hendrick Motorsports might have been the worst place he could have ever gone, because all the other drivers there in the last six years, including Mark Martin and Kasey Kahne are technically sound, but Dale, Jr. never has been. That's why I don't think that Dale, Jr. has the goods as a driver to ever compete for a championship. 454. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.01.2012 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think June has championship level talent. And I think his lack of technical expertise comes from simply not wanting to put the effort in to learn the cars as they change. I think if June truly wanted it, he could be proficient in that area. But he would rather just bitch and moan. Obviously I can't prove he would be technically proficient if he gave a damn, and you may very well be correct cjs. But watching his career I have noticed two things pertaining to that. When motivated he can get the job done ('00-'04 in Cup, the 2010 Daytona NWide race in the #3 car where he drove an excellent race), and he wants to skate by doing as little as possible. Like truly learning the cars. I guess what I'm saying is June's lack of technical expertise comes from lack of effort, not lack of ability. In my view at least. Oddly enough, the ability to diagnose the source of a car's handling issues is Matt Kenseth's strongest area as a driver. Seeing as how him and June will always be linked as part of the rookie class of 2000 (which Matt won) and their rise to national prominance in the Busch Series in '98 and '99 (with June winning both with FAR superior equipment). And they are absolute polar opposites. Kenseth is all action, no hype (the understatement of the year), an embarrassingly small amount of publicity compared to his accomplishments as a driver, a family man married for over a decade with three kids, somebody we will look back at once he is done and say "damn, I can't believe he accomplished all that and we never appreciated him". June on the other hand has been all about hype ever since he entered NASCAR. Whether he was winning and driving at an elite level like he was in '00-'01 and '03-'04, being mediocre ('02, '07-'08, and '11), or downright being pathetic ('05, '09-'10), it is always IMPORTANT and has to be covered accordingly. No matter what he does it will be headline news. And his off tack exploits get as much attention for the lifelong bachelor with his own night club. Somebody who fears marraige because he doesn't want somebody telling him he can't go to a buddy's house and drink beer all night. The horror! Basically, he doesn't want somebody in his life like Teresa was for Dale Sr, somebody who focused him and kept him on the right path to accomplish their maximum potential. Is it a coincidence Dale started dating Teresa in 1978 and his career immediately took off? In a perfect world, Matt would the one with the biggest sponsorship deal and June would still have 15 races with no sponsorship. 455. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt G, 500 miles at Darlington is still 500 miles at Darlington. It may not be in the swealtering heat and suffocating humidity of Labor Day weekend in coastal South Carolina (take it from someone who sat through a few of those, they were brutal), but it is still tough as hell. No, it is not a true "Southern 500", but it is still big deal. Especially now that we only go there once a year. That is the driver's one shot at taming the Lady. Along with the Coke 600, it is the only truly grueling race left. Those are the only two almost guaranteed to last 4 hours now that Pocono has been shortened to 400 miles (as well as Dover 15 years ago). They are the only marathons left. But I definitely agree the Bristol Night Race has lost all of its luster (and this is a Brad K fan saying this). But you are right, we need to save that one. 456. 18fan posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my opinion the chase ruined the luster of the Bristol night race. Because it is so close to the cutoff, everybody seems to be less aggressive. Throw in the new track where it is extremely hard to pass anybody, especially on the bottom, no matter how good your car is. Just look at last year's night race when Jeff Gordon with 4 fresh tires and the best car all night could not pass Martin Truex, Jr. who had 2 fresh tires and did not have a top 5 car. 457. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chad Knaus caught cheating at Daytona? Is this a repeat of 2006? Glad to hear his cheating ass got suspended for 6 races, I wish it had been longer. It sucks how NASCAR burned Carl Long to such an extreme extent 3 years ago, yet a team like HMS who repeatedly cheats over and over again keeps getting off lightly because they have money. I'm really surprised that Roger Penske would go to Ford. I know he and Rusty had a lot of success under that manufacturer, but back then Jack Roush also didn't have the firm hold of that make like he does nowadays. Look at RPM, they rarely win or even contend to win races and yes, I know that they've gone downhill as a race team from where they were in the past, but I'd say there's a reason why not many teams are running the Ford banner nowadays, and it's because of Jack's ties to them and how he always makes sure his team is #1 under their banner. I really do hope I end up being wrong about this considering I like Penske Racing and Brad K a lot, and want to see them be recognized as the winning people they are, but I can't see them getting as good of Ford equipment as Roush. 458. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, I take that back about the Roush statement. If Penske remains doing what they are doing now, such as keeping their own engine shop, which I think they will, they should be ok. I forgot about that. Still kind of surprised to be seeing Penske return to Ford though. 459. 10andJoe posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In my opinion the chase ruined the luster of the Bristol night race." No, what ruined the Bristol night race was when they decided to (a) resurface the track and (b) give the track variable banking. That instantly KILLED Bristol. 460. 10andJoe posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As an aside: is there any explicable reason while the West Series race isn't televised? Shame on you, Speed Channel. Shame. 461. 10andJoe posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting tidbits: - as expected, the #32 now has the #6 team's owner points. - as not expected the, #30 is now listed in a manner indicating it has last year's #71 owner points, likely in anticipation of the 6 or 33 dropping out and getting to "move up" into the top 35... 462. cjs3872 posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, I actually think that the Chase was what ruined the Bristol night race, because drivers started driving a lot more conservatively in that event thatn they had in years previous. In fact, in the first Bristol night race in the Chase era, Dale Earnhardt, Jr., who started around 30th for that race, once led by nearly two-thirds of a lap. The next two years saw Matt Kenseth run away with that event, leading more than 400 laps in one race. The Chase has greatly neutered that event because the drivers were afraid to make aggressive moves that might haunt them later. But I think the reconfiguration of the track actually made a better RACE track, because you can actually race there now, rather than having to wreck the guy in front of you to get by, a sentiment shared by most, if not all the drivers. And RCRandPenskeGuy, Rusty had more success in Pontiacs than he had in Fords. His wins by manufacturer breaks down like this: Pontiac 30, Ford 24, Dodge 1. If you look at the two Bristol races each year, the one in the spring is almost always the one with more aggression now, because if you mess up then, you have 20 or more races to make it up, but if you mess up in the August race there, your season could very well be over. The only reason for that is the Chase. 463. Cooper posted: 03.02.2012 - 1:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But I'll get over that. Brad is my guy. And the fact is I drive an '05 Mustang. (It's weird, I almost look at Mustang like its own brand, not really associating it with Ford in my mind, but maybe I am in denial)." DSFF, it is so damn funny you brought that up. I had a long 30 minute speech with a buddy of mine on how the the Ford Mustang shouldn't be considered a Ford. I don't consider it a Ford either, as the car is more dependable, more stylish and more "sporty" then the rest of the brand. My family has never owned a Ford a day in there lives. But they've always consider the Mustang an exception to the rule. Also add in the fact that 2013 NASCAR model is kick ass, this doesn't sting as much as I thought it would. I still hate the damn Blue Oval though. 464. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.02.2012 - 1:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol Cooper, my Mustang is the only Ford my family has ever owned or considered owning (it was a college graduation present even though they could barely afford it). You are right, compared to everything else Ford has put out from the early 70s to present, nothing touches the Stang. Everything else is just so damn generic. Really wish they would have brought the Mustang to Cup for the 2013 season. They look spectacular in NWide. But I understand. They need to sell Fusions. The Mustang sells itself. 465. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.02.2012 - 2:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In my opinion the chase ruined the luster of the Bristol night race. Because it is so close to the cutoff, everybody seems to be less aggressive. Throw in the new track where it is extremely hard to pass anybody, especially on the bottom, no matter how good your car is. Just look at last year's night race when Jeff Gordon with 4 fresh tires and the best car all night could not pass Martin Truex, Jr. who had 2 fresh tires and did not have a top 5 car. " This. I say adding the progressive banking was a good idea (Bristol had it before it was first paved with concrete), I just think that at the very least, they need to fix a few things so it still is progressively banked, but can provide a good race. But I will say, you mention about how hard it is to pass someone at Bristol now. What was the complaint that led to Bristol getting renovated with it's current progressive banking?!? It was single groove, and hard to pass someone (at least without bumping someone) 466. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.02.2012 - 2:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRandPenske, I wouldn't worry about Penske being short shafted by Roush and Ford. Most others, maybe, but this is Roger Penske we are talking about. He holds clout. If he wants something good from Ford, he'll get it 467. Smiff_99 posted: 03.02.2012 - 7:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^Precisely 468. cjs3872 posted: 03.02.2012 - 8:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin-n-rusty, like I said in post #434, if Jack Roush thinks he can bully Roger Penske like he did with Robert Yates, the Wood Brothers, and even Petty's current team, he's messing with the wrong man, because nobody, and I mean nobody bullies Roger Penske. I also think there's a possibility that teams like the Wood Brothers, Richard Petty Motorsports, and even Front Row Motorsports could align themselves with Penske, because Roush isn't giving them much help. Penske is much more likely to give these lower-echelon Ford teams some real help that Roush isn't giving them. Remember that Penske would have had a much tougher road to the top of IndyCar racing if not for the help McLaren gave him in the early 1970s. And like I also said, I wouldn't be surprised if Penske takes another look at Trevor Bayne if his sponsorship situation remains in the way it's ben, because if Penske thinks you're good enough to drive for him, that's about as high of a reccomendation as you can get, and if Roush has to release Bayne due to lack of sponsorship, given Bayne's professional friendship with the Wood Brothers, don't be surprised if Penske doesn't get involved there and even offers Bayne a third car in 2013 if things don't work out with Roush. And, with Penske's move back to Ford, we now know why Ford didn't balk at A.J. Allmendinger's running the 24-Hour race with Michael Shank. As I said in earlier posts, all the pieces of that puzzle, as well as Richard Petty's recommending that Penske hire Allmendinger now seem to fit into place. 469. 10andJoe posted: 03.02.2012 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) An article on Speed.com has some interesting comments on race team finances. Specifically stating that last years #46 team estimated that it cost $46,000 a weekend to start-and-park, vs. $160,000 to run an entire race. 470. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.02.2012 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The biggest thing is, although Roger hasn't announced it officially yet, everyone else has pretty much made it apparent Penske will still be building their engines in house. If they had to lease from Roush, they would be screwed. But that Penske motor department makes some serious ponies. Considering what Roush has, it is obvious something is there that Ford has. Penske will take that and run to the hills with it. Like when they switched to Dodge because they had a motor advantage. That Penske engine shop began making record amounts of horsepower. But they were undone by the aerodynamically unstable pre COT Charger. Plus Newman couldn't get along with Rusty or Kurt. But that won't happen this time. Ford is always on top of the aero side. Plus Brad and AJ seem to be working really hard at being good partners. 471. Bronco posted: 03.02.2012 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You are right, compared to everything else Ford has put out from the early 70s to present, nothing touches the Stang. Everything else is just so damn generic." You're forgetting the legendary Ford GT, which in my opinion blows any Mustang past, present and future out of the water. 472. myothercarisanM535i posted: 03.02.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You're forgetting the legendary Ford GT, which in my opinion blows any Mustang past, present and future out of the water." *GT40 But yeah, in reality there are many great cars to have worn the Blue Oval that have made significant impacts on the world of motor racing, such as the Cortina, Escort, Capri, Sierra, countless iterations of the Ford Falcon, as well as many, many Grand Prix victories. 473. 10andJoe posted: 03.02.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good work for David Reutimann in the second practice! Timmy Hill, on the other hand, is (as was, sadly, to be expected) in trouble. 474. Red posted: 03.02.2012 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They say JR winning would be "good" for NASCAR. I say bullshit." I agree 100%. Generally speaking, Junior fans are the lowest common denominator of NASCAR fans. Obviously there are some exceptions, but I think that's fair to say as a general rule. They tend to be myopic, emotional, and ignorant about racing. The most damning evidence against Junior Nation is that many of them aren't even NASCAR fans! In the same way that a lot of Tim Tebow's followers don't really care about football, many of Junior's followers don't really care about NASCAR. They just blindly cheer for their hero and ignore everything/everyone else that goes on in the sport in which he participates. Junior Nation is the only group who will leave the track early if their driver falls out of the race. Remember at Talladega in 2005, when Junior crashed, and half the stands emptied out with 20 laps to go? Real NASCAR fans would never walk out on a race before it's over, but Junior Nation doesn't consist of real fans. If somehow Junior started winning more races and (gasp) championships, the sport would be overrun with fair-weathered, bandwagon-jumping, ignorant fools who'd show up at the track to yell JUUUUUUNYEEEEEER!!! without having a clue about what's happening right in front of them. That would be a sad day for the people who really love NASCAR. 475. Rusty posted: 03.02.2012 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske went down the crapper when they switched from Ford to Dodge. Rusty was never the same and Ryan Newman didn't do much other than his fuel mileage season of 2003. Maybe going back to Ford will help, but I'm not cheering for a Penske driver for the first time ever this season so it isn't a big deal to me anymore. 476. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.02.2012 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree Red. Seeing the bleachers empty out like that is pretty low. The thing that gets me the most is the way the bad ones blame his issues on everything else. This week its Biffle's turn to take the brunt of their frustration. 477. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.02.2012 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The most damning evidence against Junior Nation is that many of them aren't even NASCAR fans! In the same way that a lot of Tim Tebow's followers don't really care about football, many of Junior's followers don't really care about NASCAR. They just blindly cheer for their hero and ignore everything/everyone else that goes on in the sport in which he participates." Sadly, there is some truth in those statements, but the same can be said about Danica Patrick and Jeremy Lin "fans" of the fair-weather variety. I became a Dale Jarrett fan in 1998 and stuck with him through his retirement in 2008 and what makes watching telecasts by ESPN/ABC bearable is seeing and hearing my favorite driver in the booth. 478. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.02.2012 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just imagine Penske Racing hitting the ground running in 2013 with Ford's strong areo program, the in-house Penske engine program coupled with the F-9 and the Mustang and you've got a potent combination. 2013 could be a repeat of 2001 for Roush as significant competition returns to the Ford camp for the first time since Yates' last multiple winning season in 2002. 479. Bronco posted: 03.03.2012 - 2:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "*GT40" No, I was referring specifically to the 2004-2006 Ford GT supercar, it always looked best in Tungsten silver to me. 480. Smiff_99 posted: 03.03.2012 - 8:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, the GT40 was made (I believe) only in the 60's. Bronco was responding to post 464 when DSFF said "compared to everything else Ford has put out from the early 70s to present.." So the new GT obviously falls under '70's to present'.... Don't worry, Bronco, *I* was paying attention. lol P.S.-And yes, the GT is f***ing SICK.... 481. Pete posted: 03.03.2012 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This year's Daytona 500 was just very frustrating to watch, and I'm sure for the drivers, save for Matt Kenseth, to be apart of. I look forward to a better July race. 482. myothercarisanM535i posted: 03.03.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Don't worry, Bronco, *I* was paying attention. lol" And I obviously wasn't. Sorry mate! 483. Bill Crittenden posted: 03.04.2012 - 10:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Over 300 pictures from the race...mostly Ryan Newman and his Stewart-Haas crew, Danica Patrick and Dale Jr.: http://www.carsandracingstuff.com/library/d/daytona500_2012photos01.php 484. Evan posted: 03.10.2012 - 10:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Worst way to start a season. This Daytona 500 was ruined by delays and the jet engine fire which made all turn this off and go to bed and it was huge dissapointment as FOX's immaculate advertising campaign hyped this event up with soundbytes several of FOX and CBS's famous Daytona victory calls with a montage of past 500s only to have the thing be delayed. Matt Kenseth wins a Daytona 500 the best way by winning at the checkered flag but this Daytona 500 was cursed or jinxed with all the horrible accidents or strange goings on. And in all honesty please change this date back to the second week in Feb. instead of the third. * The debut of the Diet Mountain Dew scheme for Dale Jr. * The debut of Fastenal on the 99, which was a better one than the "poison winged" AFLAC scheme. * Mark Martin drives this Daytona 500 in a Toyota and he's the first to drive all recent makes of car in the Daytona 500 except for Pontiac. * Tide gets an advert opportunity with the Jet dryer fire and people usig Tide, big deal gotta use anything you got I guess. * Debut of BK Racing which is the Red Bull team's stuff. * Kasey Kahne's first Daytona 500 with Hendrick Motorsports. * First Daytona to be delayed because of rain and first time of a jet blower gets hit by a racecar. 485. RaceFanX posted: 04.10.2012 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin's never run the 500 in a Dodge. Dale Earnhardt Jr. actually now owns two of the cars from this race. In addition to Juan Pablo Montoya's #42 Target Chevrolet that hit the jet dryer he also now has Jimmie Johnson's controversial #48 Lowe's Chevrolet that led to his eventually overturned fine but was crashed on lap 2. Both Chevys are now in Earnhardt's private outdoor junkyard of wrecked race cars. 486. Daniel posted: 04.14.2012 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Out using the top 20 from each Duel: #26 Tony Raines, #38 David Gilliland, #42 Juan Pablo Montoya, #83 Landon Cassill, #93 David Reutimann In using the top 20 from each Duel: #09 Kenny Wallace, #23 Robert Richardson Jr., #37 Mike Wallace, #40 Michael Waltrip, #97 Bill Elliott 487. Daniel posted: 05.21.2012 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Starting 43rd based on qualifying speed: #27 Paul Menard 488. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 05.11.2014 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner of the #10 was Stewart Haas Racing. In all 10 races Danica ran in it was owner by Stewart Haas Racing Sponsor Updated 15 5-hour Energy/Walgreen's (Same thing as 13/14 500) 489. Thomas posted: 05.13.2015 - 1:37 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I never liked Montoya, but the one thing I'll give him credit for happened in this race. He found about the only way to lose the Daytona 500 that Dale Earnhardt (Sr.) never did. 490. James W. McLaughlin posted: 07.17.2015 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, folks at racing-reference.info -- I've just found out that the guy who drove that jet dryer truck in that incident -- Duane Barnes -- has passed away suddenly at 55 years of age. RIP, Duane. 491. Joshua posted: 07.17.2015 - 11:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What happened to him? RIP Duane 492. James W. McLaughlin posted: 07.17.2015 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joshua, I don't know as yet how he could have died. 493. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 07.23.2015 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Updates #7 Mapei/Speed Energy #27 Peak Antifreeze/Menards #42 Target/Cottonelle #83/93 Burger King/Dr.Pepper #88 Diet Mountain Dew #97 AM/FM Energy #99 Lenox/Fastenal 494. NASCARLover22 posted: 08.26.2015 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates: #83/93 Burger King/Dr.Pepper #42 Target/Cottonelle #27 Peak Antifreeze/Menards #99 Lenox/Fastenal #32 C&J Energy Services #88 Diet Mountain Dew (National Guard not visible on car) 495. Braindead Zombie posted: 02.29.2016 - 2:05 am Rate this comment: (3) (3) The first of a number of races between 2012 and 2013 where Greg Biffle sissied out in the final laps and settled for second rather than making a move for the win. 496. Anonymous posted: 02.29.2016 - 2:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) except that he finished third not second. 497. Maverick11 posted: 04.05.2016 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The entire 2012 Speedweeks could be made into a Hollywood movie. 498. Braindead Zombie posted: 04.28.2016 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I want you to go out there, and hit the jet dryer." "Hit the jet dryer???" "HIT THE JET DRYER!!!" 499. Not Sure posted: 06.19.2016 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I believe this is the last race as of today a car numbered from 00 to 09 attempted to qualify for a Cup race. Are such car numbers no longer allowed? 500. Braindead Zombie posted: 06.19.2016 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't see why they wouldn't be allowed anymore. I think if a team wanted to run one they could. Its just nobody has. 501. John posted: 06.20.2016 - 7:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) They are still allowed, but we went through a time when they were more common than normal. We had #00, 07, 09 all full-time, now the 00 is/was the 55, 07 is the 27 & 09 is the 51. I believe it was rumored that Kurt would drive #00 for SHR instead of 41, because 00 has some sort of link to that team (I believe it's with Joe Custer, as his son runs that # in Trucks.) 502. StenhouseFan17 posted: 06.20.2016 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jason Leffler ran the #00 for Haas CNC Racing in the Busch Series in the mid-2000s, and yes Cole Custer now runs it in trucks. 503. chevyfan98 posted: 07.14.2017 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know the more I think about it the more I feel like we were lucky that the Montoya crash was as harmless (if you can say that) as it was. That jet dryer could've basically exploded upon impact and the results would've been I don't even want to think about it. And if this had been an open wheel series then we're looking at Jules Bianchi before Jules Bianchi. 504. Minnowfur posted: 12.12.2017 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's crazy to think that 4 out of the top 5 in this race retired lol 505. JR-TV posted: 12.12.2017 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^And 6 out of the top 10, 9 out of the top 15 and 12 of the top 20 have also retired. 506. Mr.Victory posted: 03.07.2018 - 9:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Involved on lap 188 crash: 1, 20, 39, 78(Contact), 5, 2, 43, 99, 14, 26, 83(Contact with wall dodging wreck(after wreck)). 507. Anonymous posted: 04.03.2018 - 7:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) If you would like to increase your familiarity only keep visiting this web site and be updated with the most up-to-date news posted here. 508. Jolly Mean Giant posted: 06.03.2018 - 1:39 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) First Daytona 500 starts for Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., Landon Cassill, and Danica Patrick. Last Daytona 500 starts for Tony Raines (gah, another mistake), David Stremme, and Robby Gordon. Probably not going to go farther than this for now, when you go sooner than about 5-6 years in the past there's more of a chance a driver who only appeared once in the 500 or hasn't appeared in a while should show up. I really should not have tried to rely mostly on my memory for these! 509. SweetRich posted: 02.21.2020 - 9:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Commentators For The Race Were Mike Joy, Larry McReynolds And Darrell Waltrip. The Pit Road Reporters Were Dick Berggren, Steve Byrnes, Matt Yocum And Krista Voda. 510. Nascarfan posted: 04.24.2020 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Just imagine they did stop the race with the big fire and Blaney won with Cassill and Rains finishing 2nd and 3rd. 511. TheDewCrew posted: 05.05.2020 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Why must Jr always finish second on my birthday 512. Timothy_Eklund posted: 05.05.2020 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is that a gift, or a curse? My favorite driver(s) have a nasty habit of finishing either 7th or 8th on August 10th. 513. BOBO83329521 posted: 05.05.2020 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @512 Does your favorite drivers change every 7-8 years depending on who finishes in those positions in the Watkins Glen races? Because only ONE driver has multiple 7th/8th place finishes on August 10th, that is former team owner Phil Parsons. 514. Timothy_Eklund posted: 05.05.2020 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @513 I have multiple drivers in different divisions. For instance, biffle and Custer finished 8th and enfinger finished 7th. 515. Timothy_Eklund posted: 05.05.2020 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Multiple favorite drivers in different divisions* 516. ElliottFan924 posted: 05.05.2020 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @511 Don't worry, my drivers haven't been too good on August 8th, looking at my favorite drivers of all time the one with the best finish is Kahne at Indy in 2004. 517. TheDewCrew posted: 05.06.2020 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @512 Idk, but this race concluded at 2 in the Morning of my birthday. Then in 2016, Jr finished second to Johnson at Atlanta. Honestly, next year Las Vegas will be on my birthday, and Elliott (Who led a lot in the Spring race), and Matt DiBenedetto (Who finished second at the Vegas race), could buck the trend. Ironically, Matt Crafton (My favorite truck driver) won on my birthday in 2015, but I never even starting to even follow it 2016-17ish. It's just odd with my family. The last two times they started a Cup race on my birthday, JJ won (My mom's favorite driver). The last two times they raced on my mom's birthday, Stewart and Harvick (My Dad's favorite drivers) won. Last time for my brother, would've been last year, but it got postponed, and the last time they raced on my Dad's birthday, JJ won again. Ignoring the last time they raced on my brother's birthday, the time before that Stewart won again. It's odd 518. Jimmie4life posted: 05.14.2020 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) During winter testing for this Daytona 500, NASCAR tested out pack racing for this race with smaller air intakes, and Kyle Busch ran a fast lap of 205.813 mph, or a 43.729. This lap would remain the fastest lap at Daytona in the restrictor plate era's history. 519. SweetRich posted: 07.15.2020 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 15th place finish for Dave Blaney would be his best finish of 2012. 520. Rich posted: 11.27.2020 - 9:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joining the crew for the first 500 to be held on a Monday was Jeff Hammond on pit road as well as John Roberts and Michael Waltrip in the Hollywood hotel. 521. Rich posted: 01.10.2021 - 11:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Roberts was the host of the pre-race show along with analysts Darrell and Michael Waltrip. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: