|| *Comments on the 2012 Food City 500:* View the most recent comment <#376> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Talon64 posted: 03.16.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's Biffle's 10th career pole, after a career-high 3 in 2011. 1st at Bristol and his 4th front row start there. Penske gets 2 cars in the top 5, as Allmendinger now has 8 runner-up starts versus 1 pole. Carl Edwards was the last car to go out, trying to go for 4 straight front row starts at Bristol, but ended up 8th. Aric Almirola will start in the top 10 for just the 5th time in 39 Cup starts. Biffle just might get his first short track Cup win this weekend. 2. joey2448 posted: 03.16.2012 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting to note: Many of the guys who were fast in practice ended up qualifying good too. Now that the pit road confusion from last years August race is (hopefully) straightened out, perhaps Jeff Gordon will win on Sunday! 3. Talon64 posted: 03.16.2012 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Robby Gordon withdrew because he was having EFI problems and the engine wouldn't start. Dodge has had the most issues with the EFI between Penske and now RGM. 4. Kyle posted: 03.16.2012 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) maybe robby gordon will rethink going to dodge next year. rookie timmy hill is hit with his 2nd DNQ in 3 races he has attempted. he's not a bad driver, but he only has 34 nationwide starts and is driving for a crap team, he needed at least another 2-3 years of nationwide before trying cup racing. 5. 18fan posted: 03.16.2012 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After Roush-Fenway dominated qualifying last year with each of their four drivers winning multiple poles, they now have two poles in four races this year. 6. Baker posted: 03.16.2012 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm a Tony Stewart fan and we're at Bristol this weekend. Needless to say I'm not even going to watch. He either 1) dominates and has bad luck to end his day after lead 250+ of 300 laps or 2) flat out sucks. 7. 18fan posted: 03.16.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) As was the case last week at Las Vegas, the fastest 43 cars will race Sunday. I like that better than when top 35 cars are slower than go-or-go home cars that don't get to race. 8. Reese posted: 03.16.2012 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There was a time when I would be all jacked up to watch this race. Now I'm just kind of Meh about the whole thing. Thanks again Nascar for ruining the most exciting track on the circut. 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.16.2012 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They ruined Bristol! 10. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.16.2012 - 11:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I wrote a song for Duke, *to the beat of Kurt Angle's original WWF theme song* You suck! You suck! You suck! You suck! You suck! You suck! You suck! You suck! 11. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.16.2012 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just another Bristol race... sad to see after I attended the March 2007 race which was the first COT race and last on the 92-07 surface. I haven't been back to Bristol since. I'll take Martinsville, Iowa or Richmond over Bristol. 12. b4il3y posted: 03.17.2012 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.16.12 - 10:52 pm They ruined Bristol! 11. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.16.12 - 11:53 pm Just another Bristol race... sad to see after I attended the March 2007 race which was the first COT race and last on the 92-07 surface. I haven't been back to Bristol since. I'll take Martinsville, Iowa or Richmond over Bristol. ---I'll take it you cubs never watched the mid 80's Bristol when it had 2 lanes...and only the good drivers could handle both. 13. 10andJoe posted: 03.17.2012 - 1:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I take it that the concept that pre-concrete Bristol was ALSO better than it is now, is alien? 14. BON GORDON posted: 03.17.2012 - 2:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) GORDON WILL BE FAST! LOOK OUT! 15. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.17.2012 - 3:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Now that the pit road confusion from last years August race is (hopefully) straightened out, perhaps Jeff Gordon will win on Sunday!" Perhaps. Or perhaps not. In August, Jeff couldnt get around Truex for 2nd, so Keselowski as the scapegoat was a bit ridiculous. Plus, Gordon had the ability to do exactly what Keselowski was doing last year being that he had a better qualifying spot, but he either didn't choose the right pit stall or never even thought about using it to his advantage. Jeff's a driver who has always worked the gray area, but apparently it was a problem when Brad did. My opinion is that I'd rather see someone's long drought come to an end on Sunday. Maybe Truex or Jr. Both drivers are very much due (but I'd probably enjoy a Truex win more). Maybe AJ Allmendinger can get his first one this weekend after a strong qualifying run. 16. cjs3872 posted: 03.17.2012 - 9:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) B4il3y, that is the point that I've been trying to make that nobody seems to agree with me on. The Bristol track races the same way now as it did before it was concreted after the 1992 spring race, because it is now a multi-groove track. In a way, it is MORE of a challenge to the drivers because the drivers can actually race there. Today, if someone is faster than the car in front, they have options, including trying to pass on the outside, and if he got even a couple of inches on the car he's trying to pass on the outside, the car that the trailing driver is trying to pass must give room, or cause both of them (and possibly more) to crash. But the Bristol of now has another difficult challenge that nobody, myself included, has brought up. Because you can race there now, green flag runs are longer, sometimes running up to 200 laps or more on a single green flag run. That means fatigue now plays a factor more than it has in previous years because the driver doesn't get a break during long green flag runs, and Bristol is THE most physically demanding track on the circuit because of the G-forces put on the drivers in the turns there. It also increases the importance on the pit crew, because there may not be as many opportunities to adjust on the car as there used to be. Also, since laps in the race take 16 seconds, if there are green flag pit stops, a slow pit stop, or a mistake by the driver entering and/or exiting the pits from fatigue can literally cost him a lap, if not more. Bristol may not be the bump and grind track that it once was, but the way it races now offers up a whole new set of challenges. I'm just glad that someone other than the racers themselves has finally agreed with me that the track is essentially better than it was from Aug. 1992-March 2007, because it has multiple lanes, room to race, and is actually physically more demanding due to the longer green flag runs than it used to be when you couldn't go more than 20-50 laps of the race without seeing a caution flag due to a crash caused by the impossibility of passing without running over the guy in front of you. 17. Smiff_99 posted: 03.17.2012 - 12:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Soooo.....Allmendinger's looking pretty stout this weekend....let's see if he can follow through. 18. cjs3872 posted: 03.17.2012 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Smiff_99, if A.J. Allmendinger wasn't competitve this weekend, then there would be REAL cause for concern in the Penske camp, given Penske's history at Bristol. After all, Penske's very first win since he returned to NASCAR came there with Rusty Wallace in 1991, and just about every driver Penske's had since has done well at Bristol. After all, with the groundwork that Wallace laid at Bristol for Penske, for a driver not to be competitve there in Penske's equipment would be a big black mark on him. Kurt Busch won there in the #2 car, as did Brad Keselowski in the most recent race there last year. Ryan Newman set the existing track record there for Penske in 2003 and has always been competitve there, though he's never won at Bristol. Justin Allgaier led a Penske 1-2 in a Nationwide Series race there with Keselowski coming in second a couple of years ago. For a someone driving for Penske not to be competitve at Bristol would be comparable to a driver not being competitve at the Indianapolis 500 for Penske, or at Pocono, where Penske's won some 16 times in IndyCar and NASCAR combined. 19. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.17.2012 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't care what the track did in the 80's. From 1992-2007 us fans were given a particular style of racing and WE FELL IN LOVE WITH IT. Then, with the concrete fading, instead of repaving it in the exact same way it was, they decided TO CHANGE WHAT THE FANS LOVED! Why? Also, I see the Jeff Gordon whining machine has gone into overdrive this weekend as it concerns last Fall's race here. Supposedly it is a travesty that people could gain such speede over those timing lines EVEN THOUGH HE HAD THE EXACT SAME ADVANTAGE ON THE BACKSTRETCH! Although I have nothing but the utmost respect for Jeff and his accomplishments and attitude behind the wheel, it is stuff like this that has always turned me off from rooting for him. When he showed up at the 1997 Winston with the infamous T-rex car that pushed every gray area there was, his team was just being "innovative". But somebody else works in the gray areas and it is whining time. Big time. Believe me, my "Gordon 2012 Champ" prediction (which I'm still sticking by) was not made with my heart. Kiss my ass Jeff. 20. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.17.2012 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watching the NWide race. I really hate the new Bristol. 21. LordLowe posted: 03.17.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see what you mean Ultimate Warrior Fan Forever but do you really have to keep beating this dead horse into the ground 22. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.17.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon should be the last guy to talk about someone else having some kind of special advantage (which I don't think Brad had at all). How many races has the #24 team won because of some kind of advantage? Jeff's a legendary driver, but his team cheats continuously and keeps getting off lightly. 23. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.17.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 0-4!!!!! 24. New 14&88 Fan posted: 03.17.2012 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Four Nationwide races and all of them have been won by N'wide regulars, Heck Yeah!! 25. Jacob posted: 03.17.2012 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OMG!!! Bristol sucks now. Just watched half the Nationwide race and it's too painful seeing Bristol race like this. I'll be watching basketball tomorrow instead of another disappointing race at this track. I'd never thought I'd say this but bring on Fontana! 26. Jacob posted: 03.17.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In fact, Bristol is probably the same thing as a Fontana or Michigan now - except without one of their best qualities; high speeds. I can't believe how much they screwed this track up. /Pounds head against the wall. 27. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.17.2012 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jacob, I am also more excited for Fontana than Bristol. Now that Fontana is nice and worn out, the racing is actually fun to watch. Bristol? I honestly don't care if I sleep through this race. Now that I work night shift, I also work every other weekend, including this one. On nights I work, I usually try to sleep well into the afternoon. Except Sundays, I make sure to get up to watch the race. Tomorrow, if I am still feeling kinda tired at 1PM, I am probably gonna just stay in bed. I NEVER thought I'd feel like that towards Bristol. If I do get up, it will only be because it is a good track for Brad. 28. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.17.2012 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So who is gonna win tomorrow at The New Coke Speedway? 29. LordLowe posted: 03.17.2012 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about call this place the crystal Pepsi speedway instead 30. cjs3872 posted: 03.17.2012 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the kind of "racing" that fans like you fell in love with at Bristol over those 15 years was not really racing at all, but rather a glorified demolition derby, and the drivers that contended were often decided by who ran over who, and who could stay away from trouble. If you could stay out of trouble at Bristol back when it was a single groove track, you could finish in the top ten by default. (The fact that Dave Marcis did exactly that in the 1994 spring race there, despite being 14 laps down proves that.) Actually, I expect the racing in this race to be more spirited than in August, because there's no pressure of the Chase hovering over these drivers. And for that reason, I expect the drivers to race harder than they will in August. And I guarantee the racing at Fontana, CA will be dull and monotonus, because the field will spread out, and it will spread out quickly, possibly as soon as the second or third lap. And let's not forget that there are fewer cars racing at Bristol because of those that start and park, so instead of 43 drivers, there wil be only about 37 or 38 racing, which will open up space for the drivers. And the track at Fontana is getting so bumpy that, much like Kentucky, the bumpiness is actually making it more dangerous and we could actually see suspensions break because of the ridiculously bad surface, which is probably overdue due for repaving, especially with IndyCars returning there later this year, since IndyCars can not race on a bumpy track at 220 MPH+, because the suspensions on those cars would snap due to the Auto Club Speedway's extreme bumpiness, which is made worse by the frequent earthquakes out there. As for the complaints about what Brad Keselowski did in last August's race by speeding going into the pits under caution. Well I agree with them, because it is dangerous. In fact, late in today's Nationwide race, Keselowski ran over Elliott Sadler at the pit entrance, nearly spinning him out. What NASCAR may need to do is to enlist the use of a second pace car during cautions at Bristol to keep drivers from speeding. And while I'm talking about pit stop during caution flags, did anyone notice that during last week's race at Las Vegas, several drivers passed the pace car entering pit road, which is supposed to be a BIG no-no. When is NASCAR finally going to start penalizing drivers for passing the pace car entering the pits under caution, because the drivers that are doing it are gaining an advantage. My opinion on this is that the first violation during a race should send the driver to the back of the field on the ensuing restart, and all subsequent violations should result in an automatic one-lap penalty. After all, we're going to see the leaders pass the pace car during virtually every caution flag pit stop, and as far as I know, that's strictly against the rules. In fact, that violates one of the cardinal rules regarding running under the caution flag, which is that you CAN NOT pass the pace car under any circumstances, unless he is waved by the pace car. 31. Schroeder51 posted: 03.17.2012 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think what really pisses me off is not so much the new Bristol (I can't say I enjoy this Bristol, I'll admit thought that I may be biased seeing as I wasn't even alive when the old asphalt Bristol was still around, though I have seen some of the races on that configuration thanks to Youtube, but I admit I may be biased from what I grew up with), but the fact that FOX/ESPN (FOX especially) continues to act like it's the same Bristol as it was between 1992-2007. They always show clips of Bristol between that period and talk about how there will be a lot of beating and banging, bump and runs, and lots of tempers and hurt feelings. They really try to make it sound as if Bristol has changed none. It has. That really pisses me off seeing them try to pretend it is the same track as it was during that time period. 32. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.17.2012 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I agree with cjs, the racing is much more of a challenge initially, but after 10 or 15 laps of searching for a way around using a different groove from the car in front, many drivers do like to go through another competitor. In a sense the current Bristol is a combination of the old asphalt and 92-07 concrete Bristol. Passing is a premium as the Nationwide race demonstrated and if a driver isn't willing to hacksaw through the competition, lapped cars can be used as picks. Yes, the media has had the biggest influence on fans' evolving attitudes towards Bristol. 33. Watto posted: 03.17.2012 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Maybe it's just me, but I find the pre-concrete Bristol and the progressively banked Bristol to be two completely different entities. The progressive banking was done overkill and it created racing issues that are frustrating to watch from a racer's perspective. 34. Mr X posted: 03.17.2012 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, the rule you speak of is called pulling up to pit, The rule probably doesn't need to exist for cars who are just recieving routine service, regardless of whether or not you pass the pace car, or pull up to it from way back there is the stop and go paddle at the end of pitroad. That paddle says stop until the field has gone by anyway. Only then does the offical flip the sign to GO and drivers who came down pitroad allowed to leave, and once the pace comes back to a line on the outside wall that matches up with the pit exit line the sign goes back to stop. Now as for cars not recieving routine service it does give them an advantage because it would give them more time to repair any damage. However for the sake of simplicity NASCAR should enforce it for everyone. Also worth mentioning is that the entrance to pit road is at most tracks a shorter distance then staying up on the track, the cars pitting may gain on the pace car without actually speeding up at all, however a simple solution to this would be to increase the pace car's speed. Unfortunately DSFF Bristol isn't over yet, regardless of what anyone says Bristol's new configuration provides only a marginal gain in terms of the width of the racing groove. At new Bristol its not as wide as people say, and at old Bristol its not as narrow as people say it was. To me for a track to truly be multi-groove there can be no preffered line, Fontana for example, the finish there last year and both 2010 races, especially October were more interesting then anything we saw at Bristol. Given equal tires, which will be critical next week, any given car on the track at any given point in the fuel run could run equal lap times 6 inches from the wall, or 2 feet from the grass. At the new Bristol only the best cars in the race can even make the occasional pass on the bottom half of the track. If a driver were to spend a fuel run down there, he would give up countless positions, and probably get lapped. Just like the top at the old Bristol. The fast groove at the new Bristol is basically the top half of the track. 2 car widths IMO. The old Bristol's groove was the bottom, and generally another partial lane above that by the end of the race weekend. 1.5-2 car widths IMO. I do think that the old Bristol recipe which I did love, could've been improved, however this current Bristol wasn't an improvment. The top line is still too advantagous, and it offers nothing that we can't see at Fontana for example, while it took away everything that made Bristol so unique. Bristol was an event, now it is just another race. The old track was a razor blade, the new Bristol is a butter knife. IMO gently nudging somebody out of your way and passing them cleanly are two equal art forms, at the old track you beat people out of the corner and down into the next one. Remember the 2002 Sharpie 500, Rusty Wallace made a late charge in that race went from 7th to the lead under green in 77 laps which at Bristol is just about 20 minutes of racing. None of the six cars he passed were wrecked, and he only slightly touched one of them, and everytime Rusty made a hole, Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr followed him through and the race ended with a finish that we all remember. Unlike the current track, which provides forgettable races that get lost in the rest of the year, and way outdone by the racing at Martinsville, Atlanta, and Richmond, which is a track that I think sells itself short by racing at night. Another thing that made me curious is the length of the green flag runs, although the new track does tend to provide longer runs in general, however the longest green flag run in the last 15 years at Bristol was 229 laps in the 2004 Sharpie 500. Its the only run over 200 laps in any race since 1997, and it not neccesarily that the new Bristol provides that may more long runs, just fewer excessively short runs. The old Bristol provided numerous runs over 100 laps in length just like the new track, and some of the physical aspect is probably taken away by the slower corner speeds due to the decreased banking. In general the pole speeds have slowed compared to the old track, and with more horsepower and straight line speed then ever in these cars, that drop had to come somewhere. As for suspension failures, I wouldn't worry, they are few and far between in this sport. For every car that has a suspension failure, there are 500 that don't in NASCAR. More of a part issue then a track issue. 35. cjs3872 posted: 03.17.2012 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Except, Mr X, what is happening is that the drivers are accelerating into pit road under caution because the pace car usually is going at or below pit road speed. Sure it's going a longer way around the track, that's indisputable. But cars are accelerating past the pace car to enter the pits under caution in every race, and in my book, that's passing the pace car and needs to be penalized. As I said, the penalty for such an infraction would be to the end of the line the first time and an automatic one-lap penalty for any further violations during the race. You watch during caution flags and the drivers are accelerating past the pace car, and not passing it at pace car speed because they're going a shorter distance. I also think that accelerating into the pits under caution also needs to be outlawed. Late in today's race, Brad Keselowski flat ran over Elliott Sadler at the designated pit entrance and it was amazing that Sadler didn't spin out. Indy used to have what was known as the P.A.C.E.R. light system, which kept the field at approxinate intervals during caution flags from 1972-'78. Now I'm not advocating that, but guys are accelerating into the pits under caution every time. What they should be forced to do is to stop accelerating and enter the pits at pace car speed where they were on the track relative to the car they were behind, which would give the leaders some advantage when they enter pit road under caution. They used to do that, but haven't for several years. Instead, they are acelerating to gain time and position, and every single driver is guilty of this, so I'm not pointing fingers at any particular driver, because everyone's doing it. 36. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.17.2012 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In fact, late in today's Nationwide race, Keselowski ran over Elliott Sadler at the pit entrance, nearly spinning him out." and why was that? Because Sadler decided against pitting pretty late in the going and got on the brakes to stop passing cars while turning right to avoid the commitment cone. Elliott seemed committed to pitting until way late, and clearly Brad didn't have anywhere to go. 37. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.17.2012 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Except, Mr X, what is happening is that the drivers are accelerating into pit road under caution because the pace car usually is going at or below pit road speed." The pace car almost never goes below pit speed. The pace speed is generally higher, albeit sometimes the same as pit speed. What's actually happening is that people try to close gaps in front of them and the lead car tries to gain an advantage by getting on the gas and then getting back down to pit road speed at the entry line. They're trying to get people off their bumpers and stay with the car ahead of em. And once again, the Brad Keselowski situation clearly was a little different than just carelessness on his part. The replay clearly shows Sadler brake checking when he decides against pitting because he, too, accelerated before pit road entry but got on the brakes way earlier than anticipated to avoid the commitment. 38. myothercarisanM535i posted: 03.17.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) About the different versions of Bristol - I like the current one, but I much prefer this style of racing to what this track produced from 92-07. And what about the first Bristol race of 1990? I'll take that over anything else, thanks. 39. cjs3872 posted: 03.17.2012 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Irony, you say what's happeneing is that people try to close gaps in front of them and the lead car tries to gain an advantage by accelerating and then geting back to pit road speed at the entry line. That's exactly my point. As far as I'm concerned, when a driver accelerates past the pace car, that's a clear violation of the rule forbidding the passing of the pace car. And there's also supposed to be a rule prohibiting drivers from accelerating into the pits by passing other lapped cars, which they would be doing if they're accelerating. But neither rule is hardly ever enforced. Like I said, NASCAR should have a system that forbids any passing entering the pits by saying that a driver has to enter the pits where he is on the track compared to any car that stays out, because any driver that accelerates into the pits like that is technically passing under the yellow flag, which is also against the rules. The only exceptions to this should be cars waved around the pace car (free pass cars and wave-around cars) and when the line-up for the restart is done on the final lap before the green flag comes out. Other than that, there should be no accelerating under caution for any reason, even coming to the pits, and definately no passing under caution, which is very much against the rules, as long as the cars are maintaining pace car speed. 40. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.17.2012 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My bad. I suppose I misinterpreted your statement when I saw you say that the pace car often is at or below pit speed, thinking that you were saying that a big factor was cars having to accelerate to get to pit speed. 41. FourNewTires posted: 03.17.2012 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Give me the old Bristol over this piece of trash any day. Current Bristol = BOR-ING!!! And you're right Schroeder51, Fox & company only makes it worse by advertising it like it's 93-07 Bristol. They know what the people want so to keep ratings they pretend this Bristol is going to provide it. You can only fool people for so long before they figure out what's really going on and turn off the TV - And they are starting to... (Ratings for the Spring Bristol the last four years) 2008 = 10.5 million 2009 = 8.9 million 2010 = 8.5 million 2011 = 7.3 million I see a trend developing. 42. cjs3872 posted: 03.17.2012 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No The Truth, I did say that the pace car sometimes travels no faster than pit road speed, though I was probably incorrect in saying that it travels below pit road speed. That was my mistake. But the plain truth is that everybody accelerates to get to pit road under caution, and that goes against the very reason the caution flag is displayed. And those that are passing cars, whether it's the pace car up front or other lapped cars, or even cars on the same lap that don't pit, are breaking the rules, though the passing of the pace car is, in my mind, a much more serious infraction than the passing to pit that goes on back in the pack. Now those that pass the pace car going into the pits don't really gain anything tangible, but that's not the point. The rule, as I understand it, is that you can not pass the pace car under any circumstances, unless you're being waved around it. But the real problem here is letting the drivers accelerate into the pits while they're still technically on the race track itself. 43. cjs3872 posted: 03.17.2012 - 11:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FourNewTires, what you say tells me that a lot of people watch races, especially short track races to see the crashes, not the actual racing itself, particularly at Bristol, because the only attraction there in the past was all the crashes, along with some controversy. I like the way it is now, because you actually have to find a way around someone to get a better finish. It used to be that you could just ride in the second half of the field (or the lead lap) for 350-400 laps, avoid the crashes, and get a top-tier finish simply by default through attrition. Often times, teams would just ride in the back, make their pit stops under caution, pit around lap 350 for the final time, stay out when everyone else pitted for the final time to get in front of them, and be in contention to win without actually passing hardly anyone the entire day. To me, that's not real racing, and it never has been. For instance, there was so much green flag racing today that just 13 cars finished on the lead lap in a 300-lap race. If the same thing happens tomorrow with all the green flag racing, we could see the number of cars on the lead lap in the single digits (not that that's entirely a bad thing). And remember that with all the green flag racing that takes place now at Bristol that there aren't as many cautions, which reduce the number of cars that get laps back, or at least reduce the number of chances for cars to get laps back. Also, before the reconfiguration, races at Bristol averaged about 100 laps of caution due to all the wrecks. Now the average number of caution laps in a Cup race at Bristol is down to about 60, and there were just 39 in the last Cup race at Bristol (which certainly was an anomaly). In other words, the average number of green flag lap in a 500-lap race at Bristol has gone up from about 400 prior to the reconfiguration to about 440 now. 44. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.17.2012 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with you for the most part that they should possibly make some changes. I like the idea of holding speed even when lapped cars are between you and other cars, because it rewards people for higher running position. Pulling up past the lapped cars between you and the closest car for position seems sortve whacky. 45. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 03.18.2012 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be heading to Bristol from my Knoxville residence tomorrow. It will my first time watching the post-2007 Bristol track in person. I was worried at first that my Dukies would be slated for an early time slot, putting me in jeopardy of missing this race. However, Lehigh pulled off the improbable, so I'm not worried about missing much basketball tomorrow. I'm too disheartened right now. 46. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 12:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Truth, pulling past the lapped cars as you're apprpaching pit road under caution is also supposed to be illegal, but I can't remember the last time NASCAR actually penalized anybody for it. Again, I compare having the lead lap cars having to wait and not pass any of the lapped cars in front of them, or other lead lap cars deciding not to pit to the old P.A.C.E.R. light system used at Indy from 1972-'78, which held the cars in relative track position all the way around the track during caution flags, and not legally allow those chasing the leader to close up during caution flags, though that system was always allegedly cheated by drivers and Steve Krisiloff was acutally penalized one lap for closing up too much during one caution period during the 1978 Indianapolis 500. By not allowing drivers to pass others entering the pits during caution flags, drivers that had built up an advantage would get to keep it before the pit stop, at least in terms of cars between themselves and other positions among cars pitting on the first caution lap in which pit stops were legal. Now by the time the second caution lap where open pitting is allowed comes around, most of the cars that were about to pit would be nose-to-tail, so it wouldn't much of an issue there. 47. FourNewTires posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I disagree. What those numbers tell me is that people like diversity in the schedule. Characterize the old Bristol however you want but it provided a unique challenge not seen anywhere else in Nascar, and most fans enjoyed that. To me, "real racing" is drivers having to show all sorts of different skill sets from one week to another and being the best across the board. The skill sets that current Bristol test are now too similar to so many other tracks we see on the schedule - Not exactly the same, but MUCH, MUCH closer than what we saw with 93-07 Bristol. What I liked most about the skill sets 93-07 Bristol tested was the way drivers had to set up a pass. Beating your opponent off the corner and getting a run to the inside down the short straightaways was truly an art form when done correctly. It really separated the men from the boys when it came to this style of racing and I miss that. Now there's no real art to setting up a pass here. If a guy is running on the inside, you go to the outside. If a guy is running on the outside, you go to the inside. That's fine for most weeks but 93-07 Bristol brought in a unique set of driver tactics that are now completely eliminated from the schedule - And Nascar is worse off for that. 48. LordLowe posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF I know you don't Like the new Bristol but try to keep the ranting at a minimum we don't want you turning into the Ultimate Warrior now do we. 49. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 9:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Except for one thing, FourNewTires, and that is while beating a guy off the corner to set him up on the straightaway is good, except that you didn't have time to use that to your advantage, because you were on the straightaway for two or three seconds before going into a turn wide enough for just one car. I know if I was a car owner, I'd would have told my driver to stay around 15th-20th place and not race anybody all day to stay out of the mayhem and wait for about lap 350-370 to pit for the final time and then stay out when everyone else pitted to get out front, and there stood a reasonable chance I could win the race, or finish in the top five without passing anybody the whole day and just staying out of the wrecks. To me, that's not what racing's all about. After all, if he really wanted to, a driver could hold the entire field up all day on the old Bristol because the was just no room to pass there. I think that's why NASCAR's trying to eliminate the push-draft at the plate tracks, to keep drivers from hiding in the back all day and showing up front at the end. Because for the last couple of years, the drivers battling for the wins at Daytona and Talladega were riding in the back for 80% of the race, just to stay out of trouble and I think NASCAR got sick and tired of it, so they made it so that the drivers would have to try to stay in front the entire race. After all, the drivers battling near the end of the Daytona 500 were up front the entire race. None of them intentionally laid back, and I think that was a major goal NASCAR had. 50. Sean posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "you CAN NOT pass the pace car under any circumstances, unless he is waved by the pace car." Does NASCAR EVER penalize someone for passing the pace car? Dale Jarrett in the 1999 Pepsi 400 and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. in his last win at Michigan in 2008 both slid past the pace car several times to save fuel (and the announcers didn't even comment on it), and got away with it. Junior's last legitimate win was now almost six years ago... If they're not going to penalize people for passing the pace car to save fuel (which I think is a more egregious offense), then I don't see the reason for penalizing this. 51. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's simple, Sean. NASCAR doesn't know how to enforce a number of their in-race rules, especially when it comes to what you can and can't do under caution. Anyone remember the fiasco at the end of the Nationwide race at Road America last year? For those that have forgotten, Justin Allgaier was leading, Reed Sorenson was second, and Ron Fellows was third. Allgaier ran out of fuel, putting Sorenson first and Fellows second. But Fellows was clearly running about three-quarters of race-pace when he passed Sorenson under caution and was originaly named the winner. That was despite the caution flag clearly waving, which was why Sorenson slowed down to heed the caution flag. It took NASCAR nearly the entire cool-down lap (about 5 minutes) to properly name Sorenson the winner. But what they should have done in addition to naming Sorenson the winner was that they should have penalized Fellows to either the last running car on the lead lap (two cars ran out of fuel on that final lap), or penalized him one full lap for what was a clear infraction of the rules. It's just that NASCAR can't enforce it's own rules regarding what you can and can't do under the caution flag. 52. 18fan posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Big wreck early and some pre-race favorites Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, and Carl Edwards were involved. 53. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I guess Kasey Kahne is in for a horrible year... 54. Anonymous posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey just tried to blame Regan for this crash, saying he was too slow. Kahne's spotter made a mistake, plain and simple. 55. Ken posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think that was merely Kasey not thinking Regan would close that fast, plus his spotter. Kahne seemed a bit unsure 56. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Woke up just in time for that one. Kasey is becoming a true Hendrick driver, blaming other people for not rolling over for him when a wreck is clearly his fault. Where are all the people? 57. 18fan posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle's start to the year has been terrible, but he's too good and that team is too good for them to stay down for too long. 58. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just think Kasey is putting too much pressure on himself to live up to the team with which he's driving for, much like Ricky Craven did when he joined Hendrick Motorsports in 1997. And yes, DSFF, the crowd does look smaller, though there are mitigating factors other than the action on the track, such as the $4 per gallon price for gas, which is affecting the size of the crowd at virtually every race. But much like at Indianapolis, a crowd of not nearly a ful house is still a substantial crowd. I'd say the crowd is still about 100,000-110,000. 59. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now how screwed up would that be if Vickers wins this race? 60. BLabonte47 posted: 03.18.2012 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha at all the morons bashing Vickers getting the MWR ride for a few races. He is now leading the race. He is an awesome driver getting bashed by a few tools over one bad race. 61. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Busch Series used to get bigger crowds than this. 62. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, I said that the crowd looks like it's at 100,000, which certainly is down over past years, though there are several factors involved. Now I suspect that the crowd would be about 20,000-30,000 more if not for the high price of gas. However, there would still not be a full house even if gas prices were lower. And while Brian Vickers is leading the race, watch for Jeff Burton and Matt Kenseth. 63. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man I hate having two Waltrips on the broadcast. 64. Mr X posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Both Waltrips plus Vickers leading means both my ears and eyes are bleeding, and I wonder how well MWR could run if they didn't spend so much time filming annoying commercials. 65. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I concur. I just LOVE hearing Mikey and Darrell praising Vickers. Man, if Vickers wins...I'm not even going to bother watching the post-race show. Don't worry, in a few years or so they will probably put Mikey in the broadcast booth. 66. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad is leading, I love the new Bristol! Just kidding. 67. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually this layout really plays to Vickers' style. His best tracks are those where you rim ride. Martinsville will expose Vickers. 68. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad has the chance to set a career high for laps led in a race. He has never lit up that column. 69. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm loving the way this race is going down right now, Brad up front and Jeff Burton in the top 5. :) 70. Rusty posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not sure why we needed a caution for Stremme smacking the wall. 71. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why did Brad restart on the inside? 72. John Royal posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And so is Gordon out 73. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff is going to have the worst season of his entire Cup career. 74. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Debate: who has the worse studio analysis, FOX with Chris "I don't know much about NASCAR even after 12 seasons" Myers and Michael "I will state the obvious and act like I am really smart for it" Waltrip or ESPN with Rusty "These cars are flat flying" Wallace and Brad "Insert cliche here" Daughterty? 75. John Royal posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Btw, why didn't Kenseth get penalty for passing leader before the line? 76. Mr X posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IDK, Larry Mac just handed out a bogus stat saying that Jimmie Johnson started 2008 with 4 straight top 5's??? 77. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My vote is with FOX right now for having two Waltrips on the broadcast team. 78. Neal posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look at all those empty seats. The economy doesn't have as much to do with it as people would like to think. Ol' Bruton fixed something that wasn't broken, and killed the goose that laid the golden egg. 79. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF - It's pretty close, but I give bonus points to FOX for having Michael Waltrip providing analysis. 80. New 14&88 Fan posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers has impressed me today. He's kept his nose clean and consistently run in the Top-10. Jeff Gordon just can't buy a break thus far. 81. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My heart is pounding hoping the #2 holds off Matt. Thank you Brad for making me truly care abtou NASCAR again. 82. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) D'oh! 83. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brendan Gaughan = stiff 84. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it looked to me like as Tony Stewart passed him on the outside entering turn three, that Brendan Gaughan may have had a right front tire go down, and Stewart was in the wrong place at the wrong time. 85. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats Brad!!! I always had a feeling his overall attitude towards racing would take him places. 86. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Back 2 Back at The New Coke Speedway. Teams usually go on runs at Bristol. I certainly hope that is the case again. 87. 18fan posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great job by Brad and that team. They were the only car who could consistently run both lines well. I think the finish would've been better without that last caution watching Brad and Matt carving their way through traffic. The top 2 finishers were by far the class of the field the second half of the race. 88. Talk4Tar posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The economy doesn't have as much to do with it as people would like to think." Prove it. I know five people who were regular attendees at Bristol that gave up tickets simply because they can't afford it. That's a lot more than people who have told me they won't go to Bristol because of the track. And by a lot more, I mean no one I know who went to Bristol has told me they quit going because of the redesigned track. Awesome to see Brad take the win! Former competitor at my two home tracks here in Michigan, and I love to see a local boy do well. 89. New 14&88 Fan posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great runs by the MWR cars, wouldn't be surprised to see one of them in victory lane before the year's out. Also, HELL YEAH BRAD K!!! 90. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! Take that Brad's Twitter critics. And you are wrong about the racing. 91. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, this was a race for the Bristol history books. By my count, there were only five caution flags (the NASCAR website has it at six). If that's true, that would be the fewest caution flags in a race at Bristol since the spring race at Bristol in 1984, when there were just four caution flags. (The 1996 spring race at Bristol had five caution flags, but that race was shortened by rain.) Also, not discounting the runs of Brad Keselowski, Matt Kenseth, Clint Bowyer, and Martin Truex, Jr., how about the run by Brian Vickers. He finished fifth, and it was no fluke, as he ran with the leaders the entire day. And Michael Waltrip's cars finished 3-4-5. Vickers' run was even more impressive, considering that this was his first race, and with the incessant gren flag racing, his run becomes even more impressive. And also, what in the world was Dale Earnhardt, Jr. thinking, running into a team car (Jeff Gordon) with more than a quarter of the race remaining, cutting his left rear tire, instantly causing him to crash. Somehow, I don't think this is the last we'll hear about this. Dale, Jr. never has fit in the Hendrick mold, and this incident is only going to stoke those particular fires. 92. Talk4Tar posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't understand why people think that the racing at Bristol sucks since the reconfiguration. They actually race side by side, there is green flag pit stops, and half the race isn't spent behind the pace car. If they want to make the argument, state it correctly...it's not the racing that sucks, it's the crashes that suck. 93. Neal posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't understand why people think that the racing at Bristol sucks since the reconfiguration. They actually race side by side, there is green flag pit stops, and half the race isn't spent behind the pace car. If they want to make the argument, state it correctly...it's not the racing that sucks, it's the crashes that suck. ----- The old Bristol used to cause tempers to flare. It produced old school, bare knuckle racing. New Bristol is like Little Michigan. A bunch of cars running in a bunch of grooves all spread out. It's about as exciting as a root canal. 94. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) New 14&88 Fan, it wouldn't surprise me to see more than one of Michael Waltrip's cars in victory lane, considering how well they've run this year. Joe Gibbs Racing might have finally goten some serious competition as the top Toyota team, as they've now had two bad races in a row as a organization. Joey Logano was their top finisher in 16th place, but two laps behind the winner. And in addition to causing his teammate to crash, Dale, Jr. also had his usual once per race pit road brain cramp, speeding on the pit stop during the last caution period with just 22 laps to go. He still wound up with a respectable finish because there were so few cars on the lead lap, due to all the green flag racing. 95. BON GORDON posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As much as a Gordon fan I am I dont think Jr. did anything wrong. Its just racing. Gordon needed a good finish and woulda got it too had the tire not blown out. It sucks being a Gordon fan right now. 96. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It sure does. This is definitely going to be a long year to be a fan of Jeff. I hate to see it, but I am predicting him to have a year almost identical to the season Dale Jr. had in 2009 at the rate so far this year. 97. 18fan posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, outside of Kyle Busch, Gibbs really hasn't been competitive at Bristol for a couple years now. I think Kyle would have had something for the leaders because he was moving up and had his car working on the bottom before the wreck. 98. BON GORDON posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I dont know about that but man it dont look good right now. 99. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 93, my thoughts exactly. Michigan or Fontana without the high speeds, only exciting part is seeing the leaders get through traffic. 100. jabber1990 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I dont remember who said it or where I saw it it said something about how everyone wants talladega to change since it has the big one, but now everyone is upset since Bristol no longer has wrecks 101. Cooper posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Victory Lane. Wooo! Brad continues his feast or famine season. How he escaped that first wreck, I have no clue.... Thought he was dead in the water. Now we go to his worst track on the circuit. Auto Club Speedway. Did ya'll see the grandstands? Damn. Bristol sucks. Love seeing that Dodge in victory lane. Roger, you are making a huge mistake. Damn't Roger, I think the Dodges have the advantage, especially since they have been developing new stuff. f**k the Ford. Mopar or No car. Brad is looking like a true racecar driver. Hopefully he can keep this going throughout the year. 102. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just don't feel Bristol is a unique track anymore. Maybe I have been spoiled way too much by going to too many old Saturday night short track races, but Bristol had that same type of feeling to me. I liked the fact it felt like a "survival" type race. Now it feels like a small clone of too many other race tracks. It feels to me NASCAR would prefer all their tracks be similar in the type of racing they produce. 103. Neal posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I dont remember who said it or where I saw it it said something about how everyone wants talladega to change since it has the big one, but now everyone is upset since Bristol no longer has wrecks ----- I don't mind Talladega being the way it is. Jack Roush said that ISC needs to make Daytona and Talladega flat tracks - is that what you're thinking of? What's next? Bulldozing the minnow pond at Darlington to make the track a true oval? Converting Martinsville to a 1.5 mile cookie-cutter? If it's not broken, don't *&^%ing fix it. 104. Urethra Franklin posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, Bristol sucks since they redid it. The empty seats in the grandstands bear that out. This is the two races out of the year where we don't want good racing, we want wrecks dammit! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Bruton tried to fix something that wasn't broke, and he broke it. NOW FIX IT! 105. jabber1990 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) when was the last time 4 different drivers and 4 different manufacturers won the first 4 races of the season? wait, Darlington still has the minnow pond? I thought it was gotten rid of years ago 106. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #103-You know, the sad thing is I actually COULD see NASCAR doing those things... 107. LordLowe posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know the previous owners of Atlanta, Bristol, and Sears Point never should have sold their tracks to Bruton Smith. 108. MStall41 posted: 03.18.2012 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The frustrating thing about New Bristol is that it still provides good side by side short track action, but it was done at the expense of Old Bristol which was even better. If they would have kept Bristol the same and built current Bristol somewhere else, I think we would all agree that it would be a great track. But SMI truly made a mistake, they had a great thing going with a Bristol and the problem isn't that New Bristol sucks, its that they irreversibly took something away from a track that was arguably the best on the circuit. So with that, i think fans perceptions of New Bristol are clouded by how much they miss Old Bristol. Because it really is unfair to say New Bristol sucks since it still provides great racing, Old Bristol was simply better and its bittersweet to think we can't have such special and unique kinds of racing that old Bristol provided. 109. 18fan posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #105, I don't know when the last time 4 different drivers driving for 4 different manufacturers won the first 4 races, but in 1993 there were 3 manufacturers and each one of the them won in the first 3 races of the season(Dale Jarrett for Chevrolet, Rusty Wallace for Pontiac, and Davey Allison for Ford). 110. Baker posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have no idea why but Brad Keselowski started growing on me last season and I actually like seeing him win now. I couldn't stand the way he acted during the whole rivalry with Carl Edwards but since then he has hooked me as a fan. I didn't watch the race today, so can someone tell me how Tony Stewart ended up 14th? As I said earlier he either dominates and has bad luck to finish horrible or flat out sucks it up. How did 14th come about? Thanks. 111. Baker posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have no idea why but Brad Keselowski started growing on me last season and I actually like seeing him win now. I couldn't stand the way he acted during the whole rivalry with Carl Edwards but since then he has hooked me as a fan. I didn't watch the race today, so can someone tell me how Tony Stewart ended up 14th? As I said earlier he either dominates and has bad luck to finish horrible or flat out sucks it up. How did 14th come about? Thanks. 112. LordLowe posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At post 103: although I agree with you I think you need to do more then just sit there and talk about it you need to take action and make sure that these thing do not happen. 113. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony finished 14th because he was involved with an incident with Brendan Gaughan near the end of the race. Before that he was running 9th and headed for a top 10. 114. Baker posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Schroeder51 Its actually way better than I expected. 115. jabber1990 posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) is there a way NASCAR can build a new track in Wyoming, same shape as bristol, maybe a bit longer with 45 degrees of concrete banking I think it would be great for NASCAR 116. BLabonte47 posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Vickers leads 125 laps and finishes 5th and yet everyone said I was stupid for saying MWR picked the right guy. BUT OH NO, HE WRECKED A BUNCH IN ONE RACE SO HE IS TEH SUX 4EVAR!!!!111!!!!111!!!!1 117. Rusty posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 125 laps Brian Vickers led in this race is the most he has led in a single race in his entire Cup career. His previous best was 121 laps led at Pocono in 2005. That was the ONLY other race in which he has led more than 100 laps. Good for him, he is a good guy. Rough day for Kurt. He started 27th but couldn't make any progress because of a loose car. They got his car working better at the end but he was too far behind and there wasn't enough cautions to give him a chance at a top 15 or top 10. 118. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This win was actually a big step for Brad. This was his first truly overpowering win, leading almost half the laps. His previous wins saw him come on strong towards the very end only. In fact, that is the first time he has led more than 100 laps in a race. The thing about Brad and Paul and that #2 team is they still have a lot of room to grow. Today was a big step towards that. The fact is he just now has tied Michael Waltrip for races with 100+ and 200+ laps led. That oughta motivate him not to rest!! 119. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But it must be said that the two best cars finished 1-2, and that's really no different than any other race. Like I've said, when the caution at about lap 350 fell the way it did. On the old Bristol, I would have run at the back, pitted on about lap 350, and then stayed out when everyone else pitted, and had a chance to win without really racing all day. What we saw today was a great duel between Keselowski and Kenseth in the second half of the race. Even racing each other hard, they still pulled away from the rest of the field with ease, which proved they had the two best cars. And without a lot of cautions, hardly anyone got laps back (Denny Hamlin was the only significant car that took the wave-around that I know of during the entire race), or got chances to make their cars better, which made car setup more important than ever. In fact, unless I'm mistaken, Brad Keselowski, Martin Truex, Jr., and Brian Vickers ran the entire 500 laps with just three pit stops. When's the last time anything like that happened? 120. LordLowe posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know what would be interesting if there was a post race fist fight between Gordon and Jr I bet you Hendrick would lose his mind over that situation. 121. FourNewTires posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Attendance for the last four Spring races at Bristol... 2009 = 160,000 2010 = 138,000 2011 = 120,000 2012 = 102,000 Call the old Bristol whatever you want. A demolition derby? A wreckfest? Even fake racing!!! Call the new Bristol, as D.W. did at the end of broadcast, a "Man's racetrack" - or even go as far as Brad K. did in victory lane to say that the racing at this track is better than ever with it's lap after lap of of side by side battles. Go scream this from the mountain top if you want, but no matter how loud, or how often you yell it, nothing you SAY will matter as much as what those 58,000 people DIDN'T DO. The fans have spoken, and it's pretty clear which Bristol the majority of them like better. 122. ch posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor changes: 30 - Inception Motorsports (Blank red car) 34 - Front Row Motorsports (Car was completely white) 36 - Widow Wax / Seal Wrap (Widow Wax held the primary presence) 74 - Turn One Racing (Blank black car) I thought the race was ok. You still had the wrecks over small spaces and now you had double grooved racing. Happy for Brad and Vickers for giving strong runs. The 32 of Stoddard might want to calll Vickers since they sitll have empty unsponsored races. On a side note, hearing that Steven Wallace may be back in the Nationwide Series at Texas driving the #4 for JD Motorsports. Thoughts? 123. Eric posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BLabonte47, you got something wrong. I don't think Brian Vickerssucked at short tracks because of Martinsville last fall. I thought Vickers sucks at short tracks because he had a very back track record going into today. Brian Vickers before today never had a top 5 finish on a track that is less than a mile in the cup series. His best short track average finish is at Martinsville with a 20.5 finish. That is not a good average finish either. Short track racing is more on the driver than the equipment and Vickers wasn't good at it before today when it comes to tracks that are less than a mile. What he does at Martinsville is more of a test where is at it and it would raise the question if it is caused by the fact he's fighting for his life in terms of continuing his cup career. Some drivers are at their best as a cup driver when they are fighting for a job and it is possible that Vickers is one of those drivers. Brian Vickers is a driver to me is good at plate and tracks like Michigan. He also can do good at a place like Pocono. 124. Lugnut18 posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But those 58,000 fans don't matter because they are just a bunch of dumb, drunk rednecks who like seeing cars crash. Tear down half the grandstands for all I care. Bristol is a actual "race" track now, not a "I can't pass you cuz I suck so I'll just spin you out of my way" track. 125. Eric posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would be more concern about the attendance if it goes down less than 80,000 fans for a Bristol cup race. The attendance decrease is a concern, but it overblown at this point if you compare it to the Brickyard 400 before last year. 126. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm surprised I'm the first person to mention Michael McDowell and the Phil Parksons car actually finished this race. 127. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Which means, FourNewTires, that those 58,000 or so fans (I think it's less than that) went to Bristol to see the crashes, and some controversy mixed in. And let's not forget that the newer style of racing isn't the only reason for the decline in attendance there. You've got to figure in the $4 per gallon gas prices. In 2009, gas prices were about $2.50 per gallon. And let's not forget that attendance hs dropeed across the board in NASCAR. Remember that, in those same four years, attendance for the Brickyard dropped in half, and even tracks like Daytona and Talladega have also seen attendance drop, though not quite as fast. For instance, from 2004 to 2010, attendance for the Daytona 500 dropped from 205,000 to 175,000, and the Daytona 500 is the biggest race on the circuit, so the attendance drops are hitting the biggest races and most prestigous tracks on the circuit. Another example of this is the drop in attendance for another of the sport's crown jewels, the Coca-Cola 600 at Charlotte. In 2007, the attendance for the 600 was 175,000. In 2010, it had dropped to 140,000, about a 20% drop in attendance, though it increased to 145,000 last year. And the Nationwide Series races at Charlotte only drew 45,000 last year. So the drop in attendance is an across the board problem, even at the sport's most prestigous tracks, so Bristol's hardly alone in that regard. When attendance drops at places like Indy, Daytona, and Charlotte, should it really be a surprise for attendance to drop at Bristol, because it's not to me. 128. Tom S. posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race was actually better than I expected it to be, and if they transformed Kentucky into this, I would praise Nascar. But since this track exists at the expense of old Bristol, I want it exterminated. I want the old Bristol back, and I want it back NOW!!! 129. Neal posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would be more concern about the attendance if it goes down less than 80,000 fans for a Bristol cup race. The attendance decrease is a concern, but it overblown at this point if you compare it to the Brickyard 400 before last year. ---- 22 years of sellouts followed by a 40% decline in attendance in 3 years is "overblown?" I'll have some of what you're smoking. 130. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm glad to see someone has implied each and every one of us who liked the old Bristol (post #123) is a drunken idiotic redneck. I really appreciate the "compliment". 131. ch posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, this is actually the third race that the 98 has attempted to finish. They did finish at Daytona and attempted to at Vegas where they actually had a real problem. They were going to run Phoenix too until the crash early in the week. They also announced a new partnership with K-Love for an unannounced number of races. I know for sure that they plan to run Auto Club, not 100% after that. 132. Schroeder51 posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Huh, it looks like the number of regular start and park teams is actually down this year, then. So far, it's looking like Josh Wise, Joe Nemechek, and Scott Riggs are going to be the routine start and parks. 133. Urethra Franklin posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But those 58,000 fans don't matter because they are just a bunch of dumb, drunk rednecks who like seeing cars crash." I'm not a dumb, drunk redneck. I live up north, I despise country music, and I've never drank a drop of alcohol in my life. And I HATE the new Bristol. I love great racing: at Atlanta, Charlotte, Dover, Michigan, Phoenix, etc. Bristol should just be a wreckfest. Period. That's what I tune in to see, and when I don't see it I'm thoroughly disappointed. 134. Anonymous posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #105, In 1986 the first 5 races were won by 5 different drivers and manufacturers: Geoff Bodine (Chevy), Kyle Petty (Ford), Terry Labonte (Oldsmobile), Morgan Shepherd (Buick) and Rusty Wallace (Pontiac). 135. FourNewTires posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was THE toughest ticket in Nascar cjs, therefore it should be the least impacted by those "other" factors you bring up, and by the looks if it, it's been impacted the most. And as I explained above, I liked the old Bristol because of the way drivers had to set up a pass far more than because of the wrecks. "Beating your opponent off the corner and getting a run to the inside down the short straightaways was truly an art form when done correctly. It really separated the men from the boys when it came to this style of racing and I miss that." You say that the straightaways were too short to really make a pass without wrecking a guy but there was about 400 green flag passes a race at old Bristol and only about 14 cautions - telling me that the overwhelming majority of the passes were made without causing a wreck. 136. Urethra Franklin posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Schroeder51, this is actually the third race that the 98 has attempted to finish. They did finish at Daytona and attempted to at Vegas where they actually had a real problem. They were going to run Phoenix too until the crash early in the week. They also announced a new partnership with K-Love for an unannounced number of races. I know for sure that they plan to run Auto Club, not 100% after that." Proof that being a "start and park" team is a business decision to grow and attract sponsorships and partners for race teams, and not some villainous plot to collect paychecks like some idiots think. 137. Raycer posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else think cars running side-by-side unable to complete the pass isn't exciting at all? 138. FourNewTires posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @post #129 That's a clear sign that they have the losing argument Schroeder51. There's a big difference being argumentative (where you attack you opponents opinions), and being aggressive (when you attack the person and call them a "drunken idiotic redneck"). They have no more good arguments to make so the only think left to do is attack the people on the other side. 139. FourNewTires posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's a big difference **between** being argumentative 140. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When Bruton tears apart The New Coke Speedway and rebuilds the track like it was, we will be vindicated. 141. Anonymous posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So I'm a drunken idiotic redneck with a PHD who has worked in 4 different countries and served on Ralph Nader's 2000 presidential campaign who hates country music and rarely drinks alchohol because I hate the new Bristol and after 6 straight years of attendance stopped going after they repaved it? When people resort to baseless, stupid name calling, you know they are losing the argument. 142. Mr X posted: 03.18.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Despite what I've said before, this was the closest I've ever seen Bristol to being anything close to multi-groove, the bottom was only semi-useless as opposed to mostly useless, frankly I thought it was an alright race, that last caution took away from what could have been an even better finish, however still thrilled to see a Dodge and Brad Keselowski in victory lane. This finish reminded me of the 1997 Food City 500, as the two leaders battled eachother lap after lap while trying to pick their way through the lapped traffic. Still miss the old Bristol though, at the end of 2012 I highly doubt this race will stick out above the rest. I still think Fontana will produce a better show as its worn out, and multi-groove, however I do think its a track that is very temperature sensitive, so I'm hoping for hot sunny whether for the race. Martinsville after that will likely put this race to shame. 143. Urethra Franklin posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @141 Nader's cool, voted for him in 2008. Prefer the Libertarians though. And yeah I get sick of the people who stereotype NASCAR fans as rednecks. I'm a gay atheist from Pennsylvania. I don't really fit the mold of the redneck stereotype. Great to see Vickers have a good run, dude deserves a full time ride. I was actually pulling for him against Brad K at one point, and I'm a Brad K fan! 144. Eric posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Neal, Did it occur to you that I don't drink alcohol today or I never smoked in my life. I am not lying either. I am in my 30's and I saw enough people that developed medical problems from smoking and it can be one of the factors why a person can get a heart attack early as in their mid 30's. I am related to a person that died in their 30's of a heart attack way before I was born. It seemed to me that you falsely accused me smoking and doing drugs. The only stuff I take for pills/capsules is Thyroid medication, Acid reflex medication, fish Oil, vitamin D and Calcium. I never took them all at once and I wait at least an hour to for taking each capsule. I also follow directions I did at double check with your math of decrease. It is not 40 percent going by the maximum amount of attendance Bristol can do. If you go by today's attendance 63.75 percent of the stands were filled. That means it is only a decrease of 36.25 percent instead of your 40 percent claim. That is a good sized decrease, but there is a lot of factors at play. There was a 22 year sellout, but there was a big difference from then and now. The gas prices were cheaper and the economy was better when it was selling out. I think really there would have been a 10 percent decrease from 2009 to now instead of a 36.25 decrease. The economy was tanking in 2008 and it continued for a while I got a degree in accounting and I double checked by using excel and my numbers don't lie. The peak of attendance for the Brickyard 400 was 300,000 for the 2003 Brickyard 400 according to this site. In 2009, the attendance was 138,000 fans. That meant the 2009 Brickyard 400 was only 46 percent filled. The Brickyard 400 attendance went down worse than Bristol and it was before the economy took a crap in 2008. 145. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad led 232 laps in this race, that's nearly as many as he led all of last year (289). This team is still getting better and they're already tough as hell. They likely would have had a top 5 at Vegas as well if not for the fuel pumps that plagued both of Penske's cars. I think and hope AJ can get a win this year as well, he just needs to finish as well as he runs. I think Kenseth could be a title contender this year, he'll need runs like this every week though. This is by far the best I have EVER seen Brian Vickers run on a short track. I was surprised, but we'll see how he runs at Martinsville, the site of his worst race last season. 146. Lugnut18 posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @141 Why is it that when someone tries to prove they aren't a drunken, stupid redneck, they always say they have a phd and did some crap overseas, and all this other important stuff. blah, blah blah. People who like seeing wrecks are...you guessed it, the back woods people. You may not be one, but I'm throwing you in with them. 147. Eric posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Neal, I also forgot to tell that the only alcohol I drink is wine. That is only one glass of wine for New years day meal. Rest of the year outside of speeding time in Florida I drink water, and soda except for other holidays. When I am in Florida I drink powerade, gatorade, and a raspberry smoothy that doesn't have any alcohol. For Easter, Thanksgiving, and Christmas I drink non alcohol wine aka white grape juice. That means I wasn't drink alcohol either when I made my post 125 on this thread. 148. Lugnut18 posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Raspberry smoothies are so damn good. 149. 10andJoe posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In addition to those listed in post #122: #98 sponsor: Let It Start With Me / K-LOVE (seperate groups) #32 sponsor: TMone (does the slogan count as part of the "sponsor"?) 150. 10andJoe posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #136: Exactly. Tommy Baldwin and Landon Cassill were examples of that already, now it looks like Phil's team might, finally, have a shot at Doing Something. 151. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see Juan finally get a good run in, and another top 10 for McMurray. 152. Matt L posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Add me to the old Bristol tally in this annual vote. Like others said, I think the fans were ok with two demolition derbys a year. Bristol was Bristol, now it's a mini-Dover. I think eventually Spring attendance will level out at a reaonable numer (about 95-100k) and summer attendance will be better. But I'm tired of the yearly excuses. Last year it was the economy, rip-off hotel prices and weatherman splitting the blame why people didn't come. This year it is the price of gas, hotel prices, Kentucky Speedway and March Madness. Maybe in 2013, they will admit the configuration change has something to do with it...or create some new excuses. 153. Neal posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, I was being sarcastic. I apologize because I realize it can be difficult to detect on occasion, but I was laying it on pretty thickly. Couple points - 36.5 rounds to 40, and at the rate the decline is occurring, it'll be well over 40% for next year's race. Secondly, the Brickyard 400 is a novelty act. NASCAR races there because it's IMS, not because the racing is spectacular. It's routinely one of the least watchable races of the year because the track is not suited for chunky stock cars. The Tournament of Roses Parade is more competitive and has more passing than the Brickyard 400. Tiregate in 2007 accelerated the decline, and it's gotten to the point where NASCAR has decided to completely cheapen the experience by adding events to the BY400 race weekend just to put more people in the stands. It's about time to call the Brickyard 400 and the Bristol reconfigure the epic fails that they are. 154. Ryan posted: 03.18.2012 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Has "digger" finally disappeared from Fox? If yes, Hooray!!!!! Now they need to work in some new people in the broadcast booth. Eleven years of Joy, Waltrip & McReynolds is enough. The debate of Old vs. New Bristol is tough, but I'll vote New Bristol. 155. Neal posted: 03.18.2012 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My bad, Tiregate was 2008. 156. dUDE gUY posted: 03.18.2012 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post # 134, I will apologize for the following smarminess in advance, but if you want a wreckfest, go see a demolition derby or a monster truck rally. Or better yet, watch a restrictor plate race. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see more of the old physicality at Bristol. There was something incredibly satisfying about watching a driver I like execute a perfectly timed bump-and-run. However, I do like the raciness of the two-groove Bristol, although it's not as racy as I'd like, considering the top line is pretty much the preferred line. The new Bristol needs the banking at the top reduced slightly, so that both lines are pretty much equal in terms of lap time. I think that would allow actual side-by-side racing AND the good ol' bump-and-run. But, as I said in the Nationwide Bristol race comments, I doubt well be seeing anything like that in the near future. 157. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said, it will come to pass: complaints along with steep attendance and ratings dropoff will cause SMI to tear up this configuration and put down new concrete in the exact configuration it was. Then they can make a big hullabaloo about "Bristol is back, you asked for it now here it is". Just like the New Coke. 158. dUDE gUY posted: 03.18.2012 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to talk about the race as well in my previous post. Oh well, a new post it is. The racing through this event was the best I've seen on this new configuration. Even though the bottom line is not as useful anymore, I still saw drivers use it a lot more than they had since it was repaved. Perhaps all the teams need is time to figure out how to make speed on the bottom, as Keselowski seemed to have found some there in turns 1 and 2 late in the race. Speaking of Special K, this was in my opinion his best all around race. He started well, ran in the top 5 for almost all of the race, led almost half of the laps, and held off a hard charging Kenseth through a lot of lapped traffic to take the checkered. I figured he could win here without taking advantage of the scoring line, and he more than proved it today. Great run for Vickers as well. He earned his first top five at a shot track, and he led the most laps he's ever led in a race. He also led the most laps for MWR in a race. Hell, it's the second highest laps total a driver has led for MWR in a SEASON at this point, and he did it in one race! I don't know why we haven't seen this Vickers before, but the right kind of pressure can do wonders for even the most under of achievers. I don't know how Kasey's spotter could have called him clear on laps 23. I guess he had a brain fart and forgot about the massive amounts of momentum you get on the high side, because Kasey was just barely clear of Ragan Smith when he got the call from his spotter that he was "clear". Another bad race for Kahne, and possible good runs were spoiled for Edwards, Kyle Busch, and even Ambrose, who had a pretty fast car in practice. 159. Peter posted: 03.18.2012 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a day for MWR!, who knew all it took for Vickers to get back to his 2003 level was to be out of a full time ride? Kahne has been a travisty at hendrick; makes jr. from 08-10 look like a champion driver. Truex jr is gonna win multiple races this season. Harvick had a awesome rebound. I have never seen a tire poop like Gordon's. Great runs for Burton, McMurray, & Menard. Oh Yeah and congrats to special K (I think its so cool him doing a victory lap with the American Flag) 160. 10andJoe posted: 03.18.2012 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #24 sponsor: Drive to End Hunger / Chase AARP Visa 161. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 03.18.2012 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, today was interesting. I started off getting soaked this morning, but as I'm typing this now, I'm completely sunburned over both arms, legs and my face. I really couldn't believe at how many empty seats were left. All in all, I thought for about the first 50 or 60 laps of a run it was basically impossible to pass. However, once the tire wear picked up, the racing was really improved. It was refreshing to see that the top cars all finished where they deserved. I also made a major mistake for not wearing ear protection this year. My ears are still ringing. I was pleased with today's race and I can't wait to head to Talladega in May. 162. Suzyanne posted: 03.18.2012 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course there are not as many fans at Bristol now. It no longer offers anything unique enough for 160,000 people to travel to rural east Tennessee. Sure there's high banks, high speeds, concrete, and plenty of side by side racing now, but if I want to see that I can just go to Dover. Bristol had a product that you couldn't see anywhere else; a product that was so good, so unique, and so breathtaking, 160,000 people (and more if there would have been seats to allow it) would travel to the middle of nowhere twice a year to see the spectacle. And oh what a spectacle it was - You were virtually guaranteed to see something there that you knew wouldn't happen anywhere else on the circuit. Sometimes it would even happen after the race. The bottom line here is that they've robbed this track of it's personality, and that's the very thing that made it so popular. I don't think the racing at this new Bristol is bad, it's just bad when compared to the product that existed before; and since new Bristol exists at the expense of Classic Bristol, it's impossible not to compare the two. If they transformed Kentucky or Chicago into this current version of Bristol, people would be singing praises from the mountain top. But that's not what happened. Instead they took a track many considered the most exciting on the circut and made it less exciting. People can blame the times, the economy, or the gas prices all they want but the dropoffs in attendance and TV ratings are staggering to the point that alarms should be going off in Mr. Smith's office right now. Only someone looking long and hard for another excuse could possibly believe that the new track configuration was not the biggest reason for this decline. Maybe not the only reason, but BY FAR the biggest. The majority of the fans have clearly spoken. They liked the old Bristol better - and by a lot. Now it's just a matter of whether Nascar and Mr. Smith really care about their fans as much as they so often claim they do. If they want their actions to speak as loudly as their words, they will put the track back to its 1993-2007 configuration. 163. TLarson83 posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski with a well deserved win, he was passing guys high and low...he could make his car work in both grooves. Awesome run for Vickers, I never would've guessed he'd lead so many many laps and come home with a Top 5. Even though he has 2 career wins, this is probably the best race of his Cup career, 2nd being the Coke600 in '07 when he led tons of laps, dominated a big portion of the race and ended up 5th. 164. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, OldSchoolNascarDude1, FOX showed a graphic on their pre-race coverage, which you didn't watch for obvious reasons (you were at the race), that showed that the threshold for pain, where loud noise is concerned, is 132 decibals, and the noise level of the cars going around at Bristol, combined with the seating layout, is at 140 decibals, so it's no surprise that your ears are still ringing. And Peter, as I mentioned in an earlier post, Kasey Kahne's big problem at Hendrick is the same one that Ricky Craven had when he arrived there in 1997, and that was self-induced pressure to prove himself there. But trust me, that's not Hendrick's biggest problem right now. He's got a potential firestorm on his hands with the situation that occurred between Dale, Jr. and Jeff Gordon about three quarters through the race today. And I'm not entirely sure that contact that cut Gordon's left rear tire was entirely accidental, either. I believe that, because of his attitude, that Dale, Jr. has been at odds with the other Hendrick drivers for several years now, and there may have been some intent in that contact. Remember that Dale, Jr. has never been a team player at Hendrick, and I think the other drivers there are sick and tired of his act and have been for quite some time. And also, this is the second unnecessary incident he's had with another driver in as many races. Remember how he ran over Mark Martin in the middle of the back straightaway at Las Vegas last week? And remember that Martin and Dale, Jr. didn't always see eye-to-eye when they were teammates at Hendrick, either. (Remember Michigan last year?) There's a real problem brewing over there with Dale, Jr. and Hendrick had solve it or Hendrick Motorsports, as a group, may have a lost season in 2012. 165. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can agree with that, cjs3872. It was extremely loud and the long green flag runs didn't help matters, although I was glad Nascar let the race play out naturally. 166. ch posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to say congrats to the 98 team, I did a little more research and it turns out that the K-Love, Let it Start with Me deal is for the rest of the season. "The partnership utilizes its full-season sponsorship of the #98 K-LOVE Ford Fusion for Phil Parsons/Curb-Agajanian Racing piloted by fifth-year Sprint Cup driver Michael McDowell and focuses on the message, "Let It Start With Me," which was originally targeted by the recent Dove Award-nominated song of the same name by Curb Records' Christian band No Other Name." So now add the 98 team to TBR and Phoenix as teams being able to take S&P to a full time level! 167. Anonymous posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bristol was once a mean son of bitch. Repaving it to allow three wide passing has taken the bite out of the place. Despite what some here think, there's more to racing than passing. Drivers having to overcome tough ass places like the old Bristol and Darlington was once what is was about. 168. irony posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good start to the season for Menard. Don't think anyone has mentioned him. 3 top 10's on 3 drastically different tracks. Is Jr back to pre-2007 form? He's ran top 10 or better in 3 out of 4 races. I was already giving up on his season after Phoenix. Crossing my fingers that I was wrong. PS smoking and listening to country music doesn't make a person a redneck. Ask Willie Nelson. I for one smoke, live in the rural south, like many forms of racing and music, and lean far to the left. I think both versions of Bristol are/were imperfect, but way above average. I think if I had to vote, I prefer the old Bristol. As I've said a zillion times, I think they over did the progressive banking. 169. cjs3872 posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well irony, Menard reminds me of drivers such as Harry Gant, Terry Labonte, and Morgan Shepherd from back in the 1980s and early 90s. Gant, Labonte, and Shepherd were never flashy, but give them a good car and they could get the job done as well as anyone. That's an ironic fact considering that Gant was the first driver I know of that Petree was a crew chief for, and it was Petree that brought Paul Menard into NASCAR in around 2003 or 2004. Like Gant, Labonte, and Shepherd, Menard isn't flashy, but he gets the job done. And ch, who's to say that the #98 car, as well as some others, aren't going to start-and-park after the fifth race. The reason that some of these low-budget teams aren't S&P'ing right now is that they want to get in the top 35 in points after next week's race. If they do, I expect to see them start-and-park for the rest of the season, especially the #98 car, and probably the #30 as well. 170. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting theory about HMS cjs. He is definitely the antithesis of a "Hendrick driver". His lack of success there is simply astounding, although we shouldn't be surprised. His "who cares" attitude flies right in the face of JJ and especially Gordon who take anything less than a win personally. They both simply never give up on races. June often has given up before he even enters the track. Either way he has become the 800 pound gorilla over there. And not surprisingly, I haven't seen anybody mention how June's late race speeding penalty cost him a potential Top 5 and sent him to 15th. Iit is just such a common occurance for him it is barely worth mentioning anymore. To me, this is NASCAR's biggest problem. Its most important Cup driver has one win in 5+ seasons (coming up on a 4 year drought), and its most important Nationwide driver can't run at a track less than 1.5 miles without being lapped 2 or 3 times in just 200 or or 300 laps. 171. Anonymous posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR should really do something about the tailpipes sticking out of the sides of the cars like that. Like shear 4 inches off the ends or something. Anything to keep them from cutting tires. 172. Ivan posted: 03.18.2012 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Odd that there were so many big names involved in wrecks today with only five cautions. Gordon, Stewart, Kahne, Harvick, Edwards, and Ky. Busch all crashed in this race. There's some pretty solid teams who now have holes to dig out of. As far as Old Bristol vs. New Bristol is concerned, give me Old Bristol hands down! This place just isn't the same as it used to be and I wish they would change it back. 173. irony posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Jr had a problem on the last lap, making the penalty irrelevant. Never heard what the problem was. His "I don't care" attitude may be a byproduct of his performance rather than the other way around. If he can keep his momentum going for once and gain some confidence, who knows. Danica, I love her but marketing her is a mistake. She doesn't have a ceiling. She's an unknown with little potential. Jr on the other hand has a rather high ceiling. Maybe he can reach it again, maybe not. A note about Andy Petree, I sat next to his dad at Tri-County Motor Speedway around the year 2000. He noticed my Harry Gantt ball cap, and introduced himself. Andy was racing a late model that night. 174. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, did you read post #94, because I mentioned in that post that Dale, Jr. had his usual once per race pit road brain cramp by speeding entering pit road. Now exactly how you speed entering pit road under caution is beyond me, but he did, and that may have been the only pit road speeding penalty of any consequence during the entire race. Of course, with all the green flag running, combined with the timing of the cautions, there weren't that many pit stops, as two of the MWR cars, Martin Truex, Jr. and Brian Vickers ran the entire 500-lap race making only three pit stops, and Keselowski, Kenseth, Jeff Burton, and Jamie McMurray only pitted four times during the race. One good thing about the long green flag runs, combined with the timing of the caution flags was that only once did a car of signifiance take a "wave-around", and that was Denny Hamlin, and that didn't even get him back on the lead lap, and he eventually lost that lap anyway. Of note, Stewart-Haas still doesn't have Bristol's new configuration figured out, as Stewart-Haas Racing cars got the free pass on each of the last three caution flags. Stewart got his on the third caution, while Newman got it on both the fourth and fifth (and final) caution period. And as I also mentioned, the five cautions were the lowest for a fully completed race at Bristol since the spring race way back in 1984, which had only four caution periods. The spring race in 1996 also had only five cautions (and only five cars finish on the lead lap), but that race was shortened to 342 laps due to rain, so I don't count that. Also, this race had just 49 caution laps, the fourth straight Bristol race with fewer than 60 caution laps. But of those 49 caution laps, a whopping 22 were run during the first caution period. Now someone tell me why it took NASCAR so long to clean the track after that multi-car incident. That multi-car incident was also a big reason for the lack of caution flags in this race. The reason had to do with the particular drivers involved, as Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, Marcos Ambrose, and Kevin Harvick were all among those involved, and all of them are known for running over others and causing accidents. But with three of them in the garage for much of the race (and slow when they were on the track afterwards) and Harvick not up to full speed (though he did wind up 11th), the chances for cautions were significantly decreased with those four unable to run with the leaders. 175. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Irony, I disagree with you saying that Danica Patrick doesn't have a ceiling. Danica does have a ceiling, and it's very low. She was a big reason why Michael Andretti's team became less and less a factor in IndyCar racing, and she's not going to do much better in NASCAR. She's no Janet Guthrie. If you put Guthrie in that caliber of equipment in her prime, I'm not sure she wouldn't have contended for race wins, and quite possibly might have been able to win races in that caliber of equipment. But Danica is an average driver, at best, and an anchor for a team, at worst. And when I say anchor, I mean the kind that's dropped, as she may drag Dale, Jr.'s team and Stewart-Haas Racing down with her, much as she may have helped to do to Michael Andretti's team. 176. Big Jim posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why didn't Nascar black flag Kenseth when he beat Brad to the line o the restart after the third caution? This is why Nascar has lost so much credability. It's doesn't even follow it's own rules. Also, add me to the list of people who like old Bristol better. There's lots of tracks that produce side by side action but there's only one old Bristol. 177. 10andJoe posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And ch, who's to say that the #98 car, as well as some others, aren't going to start-and-park after the fifth race." Ahem. "The partnership utilizes its -full-season sponsorship- of the #98 K-LOVE Ford Fusion..." 178. dUDE gUY posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tarson83 (Post # 163), in my opinion Vicker's best race would be the spring Pocono race in '05. He led 121 laps, and finished second to Edwards. But this race and the '07 Coke 600 would certainly be #2 and #3 respectively. 179. LordLowe posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I was the Owner of Hendrick Motorsports I would Have Fired Dale Jr a long time ago 180. H8R posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Classic Dale Jr interview. Doesn't care and nonchalantly says his car told him he was speeding on the other side of pit road. Great win for Keselowski. That was his best so far and I hope there's more to come for him. And giving credit where it's due, after looking like an idiot for the last few weeks of last year, Brian Vickers appears to have returned to where he was a few years ago and back in 2003. That was a great all around race for him. And regarding one of his teammates, Martin Truex Jr, when he had the slow pit stop I expected him to stay in the back of the lead lap like he traditionally has done with his good cars in the last few years, but he did a great job of slowly getting it back to the front. 181. LordLowe posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would love to see some one give Dale Jr the ass Kicking he so richly deserves. 182. palo_s posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #175: First Michael Andretti's bad season was 2006.. 183. irony posted: 03.19.2012 - 2:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 175, by saying Danica has no ceiling I meant she doesn't have the past success that says "she can do better than this" like Dale Jr does. I agree that her potential is low, but you never know. Stenhouse's ceiling looked pretty darn low 2 years ago. 184. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I'm not entirely sure that contact that cut Gordon's left rear tire was entirely accidental, either. I believe that, because of his attitude, that Dale, Jr. has been at odds with the other Hendrick drivers for several years now, and there may have been some intent in that contact." If Jr wanted to intentionally cut Gordon's tire, it would've been with his right front fender. There's absolutely no way that you can pull it off on a regular basis by tryin to do it with the exhaust. That's just luck. And to say Dale Jr has never been a team player at Hendrick is going a bit far. I've seen things from the inside, and his relationships with his teammates are pretty good overall. Hell, if you simply look at it from the outside, he DID push the 48 to a win at Talladega. That's called being a team player. And he even took a garbage finish the next race at Talladega to go along with Jimmie's failing strategy because he stuck with his teammate. That's called being a team player. Sharing notes with other Hendrick cars that unloaded poorly is also called being a team player. These guys are gonna race each other on the track outside of restricter plate racing, and it doesn't mean they're not team players. Watch practice sessions and all that... usually when Jr is conversing in the garage area, one of his teammates are around. At Vegas, I saw many shots of Jr talking with Kasey Kahne. The guy's not somebody who has a piss poor attitude that's ripping the team apart. Today's deal with Jeff Gordon was a freak deal that doesn't happen 99% of the time in the same exact situation. 185. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also find it really strange that people are overreacting so much about Gordon's performance today simply because of the result. Gordon ran top 5 ALL DAY LONG until he gets a tire cut by an exhaust tip, and yet he's headed for his worst season ever and along the same path as Jr's 2009 season? Absolutely ridiculous. Wait until we get more races under our belt and the standings are more indicative of true performance. I don't think Gordon's season will be worse than his 2005 season, but that remains to be seen. I also guarantee that it won't contain even close to the amount of turmoil that Jr's season had in 2009. 186. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So now add the 98 team to TBR and Phoenix as teams being able to take S&P to a full time level!" just a heads up... McDowell has parked a number of races with KLove on the car in the past. don't be surprised when he parks some more, despite the reported "full season sponsorship" 187. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I agree that her potential is low, but you never know. Stenhouse's ceiling looked pretty darn low 2 years ago." and yet still far higher than Danica's. Stenhouse got a top 10 in his 3rd career start and a top 5 in his 4th career start. Ended up winning a pole at Iowa in his 6th career start. He just had a lot of maturing to do. 188. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Classic Dale Jr interview. Doesn't care and nonchalantly says his car told him he was speeding on the other side of pit road." Apparently not understanding how he was speeding on the back end of pit road when his tach was only close to speeding on the other end of the track is not caring? No, it's called not understanding his tach showed something contrary to the timing lines. He was clearly frustrated and clearly cared, but clearly happy that his cars have better performance in general. 189. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I mightve misread your thoughts regarding intent, cjs. I thought you were saying that there was possibly intent to cut the tire, but you might've meant that there was possibly intent just to make casual contact. If I misread it the first time, I'm sorry about that. 190. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 8:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Truth, I wasn't saying that he intentionally cut Gordon's tire. However, I am saying that the contact itself was intentional, because he clearly drove into Gordon on the backstretch. You don't do it the way he did it if there wasn't intent involved. I agree that the cutting of Gordon's tire was a freak deal, but it might just be that kind of season for Gordon, where anything that can go wrong, will go wrong. Also, remember the situation regarding the team swaps last year. I don't think anyone was happier to see Gordon's and Dale, Jr.'s teams do the shop swap than Mark Martin, who loved having Gordon's team there, instead of Dale, Jr.'s, which tells me that Martin thought that Dale, Jr.'s team was dragging the old #5 team down. And yes, this season will be worse for Gordon than his 2005 season, when he won four times. The question is, will this season be as bad as 2008 was for him, because that was probably his worst season to date. But unless Hendrick gets his house in order, this year could be like 2010 was, when Jimmie Johnson was the ONLY Hendrick driver to win a race. And yes, the problem over there has been driver and team chemistry, which really started to go downhill when Dale, Jr. arrived in 2008. But Hendrick made the same mistake when Kasey Kahne moved over as he did when Dale, Jr. moved over there, and that was allowing him to bring his own crew chief. The only perceivable difference is that Kasey sems to be easy for the other Hendrick drivers to get along with, while Dale, Jr. doens't care if he gets along with the other Hendrick drivers. Also remember this. Dale, Jr. is more likely to get along with Kasey Kahne than he ever will be with Johnson and especially Gordon because Dale, Jr. still considers those two to be such rivals, but Dale, Jr. doesn't have such a rivalry with Kahne. That played out in the first Talladega race that Dale, Jr. ever ran for Hendrick, when instead of helping Gordon, his supposed teammate, take the lead late, he hung Gordon out. That right there tells you what he thinks himself, and even more importantly, his father, Dale, Sr. And by the way, even though all the Hendrick drivers usually go to victory lane to congratulate their teammates, something that now hapens regarding practically every team, when's the last time that Dale, Jr. congratulated a teammate in victory lane, because I can't remember it. Of course, that might be the only way he sees victory lane again, the way things are going. 191. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 8:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My statement in the last paragraph should have said that incident in 2008 at Talladega, when Dale, Jr. hung Gordon out late in the race, should have said something about what he thinks about helping Gordon, considering the rivalry betwen Gordon and not only himself (Dale, Jr.), but also the rivalry between himself and Dale, Sr. The rivalry between Gordon and the Earnhardts will never go away, and I think we saw that play out yesterday in the contact between Dale, Jr. and Gordon that resulted in Gordon's cut tire and crash. 192. Rocco posted: 03.19.2012 - 8:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne is now 32nd in points, is already 66 markers out of 10th, and is driving like a damn rookie. The only drivers who have started all four races and have fewer points than Kahne are Landon Cassill, David Stremme, and Michael McDowell. OUCH!!! And while I can't add anything to the Old Bristol/New Bristol conversation that hasn't already been stated, I'd like to put a vote in for Old Bristol. That place awesome. This one's not bad but it doesn't stand out. 193. Peter posted: 03.19.2012 - 8:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #175 you hit the nail right on the head. Andretti Autosport (nee Andretti Green) used to be a powerhouse in Indycar, but they felt pressure from the media, and possibly Indycar, to give Danica the supiror car in every race, and the fact the she very rarly deliverd made Kim Green bow out as partner and the team be viewed as a joke. She did the exact same thing to Rahal-Letterman too, and now your starting to see Stwart-Hass's performance drop. If anyone in racing is the 800 pound gorilla, its her! 194. palo_s posted: 03.19.2012 - 10:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #193: Stewart Haas starting drop?? I think last year Stewart won his first race in Chase.. About Andretti - Andretti was Honda prefered team and Ganassi used Panoz/Toyota combination.. After season 2005 IndyCar banned manufacter prefering and Toyota left IndyCar - Ganassi become Honda team.. In 2006 was domination two teams - Penske and Ganassi, Andretti had bad year.. 195. Smiff_99 posted: 03.19.2012 - 11:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright, I gotta say something here....when did Ricky Craven fail because of pressure? Never, to my knowledge....he followed up a mediocre ROTY season in '95, and came out of the gate STRONG in '96, running 4th in points before the horrific crash at Talladega. And that's where THAT season went. Fast forward to '97, driving for Hendrick, he was 7th heading into Texas on the strength of a pair of top 5's to start the season....and then he had the practice crash, missed 2 races, and suffered PHYSICAL after-effects for 2 years. He had a LOT more potential than some people realize....it just wasn't meant to be. And even THEN, after the wrecks and trumoil and shit, he STILL managed to score not one, but TWO victories for Cal Wells' team. 196. Smiff_99 posted: 03.19.2012 - 11:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^At Martinsville and darlingotn, no less. 197. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 11:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smiff_99, Ricky Craven has admitted many times that he put too much pressure on himself when he got to Hendrick to live up to the equipment he was driving, and the team he was driving for. Sure, injuries was his downfall at Hendrick (and for his career), that can not be denied, but he also self-admittedly put too much pressure on himself. And yes, Larry Hedrick's car never ran as well before Craven's arrival, nor did it run very good after he left. After he left Hendrick Motorsports in 1998, we saw what he could do in good equipment a lower pressure situation. After all, his two Cup wins came driving for Cal Wells' team. Kasey Kahne is, I believe, suffering from the same thing. He's putting too much pressure on himself. That's why he's making the errors that he usually doesn't make. What put him out of the race at Phoenix and yesterday at Bristol are mistakes that come with self-induced pressure. He's also normally one of the most conservative drivers on the circuit, but he's making mistakes from aggression, another case of someone puting too much pressure on himself. His driving this year to this point has been way out of character for him. And frankly, judging by how eager he was to get in Hendrick equipment, his problems with self-induced pressure could be seen from a long way away. Kasey just needs to relax while inside the car and drive the way he normally does and let the car and pit crew do the work. If he does, he'll be just fine. 198. NadeauFan91 posted: 03.19.2012 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Completely missed this race, but I heard about the Gordon/Jr mishap, checked it out and have only one thing to say: Butthurt much? Seriously, that was at worst, a freak accident that was the result of racing. Nothing more nothing less. You know that kind of side by side bumping deal was normal at Bristol a few years ago, right? On another forum, I saw people calling Jr a dirty driver after that, I'm thinking "If he's a dirty driver, then what the hell is Kyle Busch, a serial killer on wheels?" Other than the fall Martinsville race last year, Jr doesn't have a history of driving dirty week in and week out. I understand that Gordon has had a beyond shitty season, but the fan reaction to this was just plain silly. 199. Anonymous posted: 03.19.2012 - 11:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar needs to fix this track. I want the beating and banging back! 200. Scott B posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Qualifying notes: #7 Robby Gordon entry forced to withdraw as noted earlier due to being unable to complete the required practice lap. #40 team (Mike Hillman owned) team was on the initial entry list with Tony Raines as the driver, but withdrew in a more conventional way. #74 Stacy Compton/Turn One team makes their first Sprint Cup race, with Reed Sorenson driving as a start & park. 201. Bronco posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why didn't Nascar black flag Kenseth when he beat Brad to the line o the restart after the third caution? This is why Nascar has lost so much credability. It's doesn't even follow it's own rules." Here is their bogus reason for why. It also looked like Kenseth also pulled a similar move on the final restart. Could Kasey Kahne's start to the year have been any worse? He got wrecked at Daytona which wasn't his fault, and the Las Vegas incident was just racing, but Phoenix and Bristol were 100% his fault, and I can't believe it took the FOX guys that long to figure out who was responsible. Phoenix was especially bad since he lost control all on his own and hit the wall running 2nd. I know Mark made the chase in 2009 after an awful start to the year, but I don't see the same happening for Kasey. Last week some racing "experts" implied that Carl and Matt would have a feud brewing over Matt's wreck at Las Vegas, and this week people are going to talk about Dale Jr and Jeff Gordon going at it, and I see cjs3872 has already gotten things started. "Remember how he ran over Mark Martin in the middle of the back straightaway at Las Vegas last week?" Lol, perhaps if Mark Martin had the sense to not move up in front of a car coming with a lot more momentum than him, he wouldn't have gotten run over? "But trust me, that's not Hendrick's biggest problem right now. He's got a potential firestorm on his hands with the situation that occurred between Dale, Jr. and Jeff Gordon about three quarters through the race today. And I'm not entirely sure that contact that cut Gordon's left rear tire was entirely accidental, either. I believe that, because of his attitude, that Dale, Jr. has been at odds with the other Hendrick drivers for several years now, and there may have been some intent in that contact." This has me laughing like hell. How can you not see that the contact was just two cars touching slightly rather than rubbing on each other the whole lap? And a firestorm, really? The two cars rubbed, Gordon crashed, Dale Jr apologized later , and Gordon has another 22 races to recover those points and make the chase. Do you really think Dale Jr planned out exactly when and where to touch Gordon's car in order to cut his tire down? "Remember that Dale, Jr. has never been a team player at Hendrick, and I think the other drivers there are sick and tired of his act and have been for quite some time." Not a team player? Right, it's not like pushed the #48 to one of only two wins last year, or stayed with HMS crew chief Lance McGrew far longer than he should have, or hung out in the back at Daytona/Talladega just because that was Jimmie and Chad wanted to do. "And remember that Martin and Dale, Jr. didn't always see eye-to-eye when they were teammates at Hendrick, either. (Remember Michigan last year?) There's a real problem brewing over there with Dale, Jr. and Hendrick had solve it or Hendrick Motorsports, as a group, may have a lost season in 2012." At Michigan last year, Martin drifted up the track which pinched the #88 into the wall. That was a classic case of Mark not being totally aware of cars around him, as he demonstrated at the Coke 600, and the summer and fall Daytona and Talladega races of 2011. "But Hendrick made the same mistake when Kasey Kahne moved over as he did when Dale, Jr. moved over there, and that was allowing him to bring his own crew chief." LMFAO, right RH should have made Kasey work with none other than Lance McGrew, the same guy who had three consecutive seasons outside the top 20 with proven winners Dale Jr and Mark Martin. Never mind the fact Kenny Francis' far better record. "And by the way, even though all the Hendrick drivers usually go to victory lane to congratulate their teammates, something that now hapens regarding practically every team, when's the last time that Dale, Jr. congratulated a teammate in victory lane, because I can't remember it." Umm, how about 11 months ago at the Talladega race when he pushed Jimmie to the win? Just because he doesn't walk up and interrupt the post race interview doesn't mean he's not there I just love the fact that if Dale Jr had just pulled over and let Gordon pass, everyone would call him a wuss that lacked passion or the desire to win, but if he races Gordon and they make casual contact then he's automatically a dirty driver. You've really got a thing for over analyzing different teams and drivers. 202. Scott B posted: 03.19.2012 - 12:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Other random stats: David Reutimann gives the #10 a season best 21st place finish to move them up to 36th in the owners points. Jeff Burton is the highest-finishing Chevy driver for the first time since the May 2010 race at Dover. 203. 10andJoe posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >David Reutimann gives the #10 a season best 21st place finish to move them up to 36th in the owners points. And, since the 33 won't be running past California, that's as good as 35th. ...it will be amusing to watch Reut's performance vs Danica's in the 10 car. I suspect there may be "surprising" results. 204. Eric posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can not completely blame Danica for the decline of Andretti Autosport. Danica played a huge role in the decline, but there also needs to be looked at is what drivers that organization lost and the other drivers they had after that. In 2007, that organization won the championship with Dario Franchatti despite having Danica Patrick and Marco Andretti as drivers. Tony Kanaan and Dario carried the organization. Danica and Marco were the link links as drivers that year. Dario left after 2007. Dario's wife wanted him to leave Indy Racing League at the time because of the scary wrecks he was in that year. She wanted him in NASCAR and that caused his ill fated attempt in cup racing. When Dario left, Andretti got weaker as an organization. The problems were in the quality of equipment and the drivers they had not named Tony Kanaan. Marco Andretti has been a disappointment as a driver over there and it played a role in that organization's decline. Marco at times was fast unlike Danica, but made dumb mistakes on the track or there was bad strategy caused by top of the pit box. Danica and Marco together caused Andretti Autosport to decline. 205. LordLowe posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey CJS do you think a hendrick Driver will win a race this year or will Hendrick go winless for the first time since 1985 the same year I was born by the way 2 days after Bill Elliott Won the Southern 500. 206. LordLowe posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy 28th B-Day DSFF You are now 2 years away from the big 30. 207. Anonymous posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait Bronco? Are you saying that the reason Nascar actually gave as to why they didn't black flag the #17 was because "it also looked like Kenseth also pulled a similar move on the final restart"? 208. Paul posted: 03.19.2012 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will never, ever buy another ticket to a race a Bristol until they put the track back to how it was. That was pathetic and a waste of money. They advertised beating and banging and I didn't see any of it. 209. Bronco posted: 03.19.2012 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wait Bronco? Are you saying that the reason Nascar actually gave as to why they didn't black flag the #17 was because "it also looked like Kenseth also pulled a similar move on the final restart"?" No my bad, I forgot to provide the link that explains NASCAR's reasoning. http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nascar-from-the-marbles/nascar-says-matt-kenseth-legally-beat-brad-keselowski-220515520.html;_ylt=Avbg26q.UB7IcZRqWWmOINdfbwM6 My personal viewpoint says that Kenseth narrowly edged the #2 on the final restart but I don't think they replayed that restart again. 210. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, I didn't say that Dale, Jr. intended to cut Gordon's tire down, just that the contact itself looked intentional. Certainly the cut tire and the ensuing crash were never intended. But Dale, Jr.'s had problems with teammates before, so this is not an isolated incident in that regard. Now as for your saying that Dale, Jr. ran over Martin because Martin came up in front of him. Problem with that theory is that Dale, Jr. never tried to go around Martin, but rather tried to go through him, and he had time to go around him. And let's not forget that the last time something like this happened at Hendrick (back in 1990 when Rudd and Schrader wrecked each other at Martinsville battling for the lead) that it crushed the team and they never recovered for the rest of that entire season. And the reason I say that Hendrick should never have allowed Kahne to bring his own crew chief with him was that he did that with Dale, Jr., and while that idea started promising, it turned into an unmitigated disaster. And if Lance McGrew wasn't getting the job done, he should have looked for someone else inside the Hendrick organization. Now if it's for a start-up team, I can understand letting a driver bring his own crew chief, but not with an already established team. And who's to say that if Francis wasn't allowed to come to Hendrick with Kahne immediately, that he wouldn't have wound up back with Kahne eventually. Remember in 1987 when Darrell Waltrip first drove for Hendrick Motorsports. His crew chief was Waddell Wilson. Jeff Hammond, who had been Waltrip's crew chief with Junior Johnson, didn't rejoin him until well into the 1987 season, as he had stayed with Johnson to become Terry Labonte's crew chief (and that was a disaster, as well). And in the case of Dale, Jr. going to victory lane to greet Jimmie Johnson at Talladega last spring, Dale, Jr. felt he had a responsibility to do so, which he did in that case, because he was the one that put him there. And your comment about Dale, Jr. staying in the back with the other Hendrick cars at Daytona and Talladega last year was more than likely an organizational decision, as Hendrick's drivers have been doing that since the advent of the cuurent car. (Remember that when Jeff Gordon won at Talladega in the fall race in 2007, he, Jimmie Johnson, and Casey Mears all ran in the back all day.) In fact, we'll probably see Hendrick's cars at the back in next month's race at Talladega. Remember that in the fall race there in 2010 Gordon and Jimmie Johnson went from 24th and 25th to first and second in just a lap and a half. Now as for those that say that Matt Kenseth should have been penalized for jumping ahead of Brad Keselowski on that restart following the third caution. But the thing about that is that if NASCAR thinks it's close, they'll usualyy let it stand. Only when it's obvious, such as David Ragan's lane change near the end of the Daytona 500 last year, will they issue a penalty. And that start was so close that you couldn't tell who was ahead at the S/F line without the ultra slow motion replay and the S/F line camera that FOX used. so the no call was the right call there. Kenseth got the lead at that time, not because of the restart, but because of Keselowski's poor decision to start on the inside lane. 211. Jack posted: 03.19.2012 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's a travesty what's become of Bristol. 212. Cooper posted: 03.19.2012 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The main reason that Kenseth didn't get a penalty, was because their was no rule broken. You can beat the leader back to the line if the leader doesn't accelerate by a certain point. Brad simply missed the restart point and therefore Matt had the ability to go. Brad brought the field down slow, and basically tried to stack the field up, and unfortunately he lost track of the restart zone. Kenseth didn't do anything wrong, and Brad alluded to this in his post race interview and basically said that he needs to improve on his restarts. Let me repeat. You can beat the leader to the line if the leader fails to go by a certain point. 213. BON GORDON posted: 03.19.2012 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JEFF GORDON'S TOP FIVE WORST SEASONS: #1. 2010- 0 wins, only 11 Top 5s, and 17 Top Tens. He performed well till around August and fell off the face of the earth and barely finished 9th in points. Worst season in my opinion. #2.1993- Yeah it was his rookie year and thats the ONLY reason its not #1. No wins and like 10 or so DNFs. Only 11 Top 10s. Thank god Hendrick never let him go after this season. #3. 2008- He never really performed well all season and got lucky to finish 2nd and 4th on fuel strategy at Texas and Homestead late in the season to finish 7th in points. He did win 4 poles and earn 13 Top Fives. 2007 Hangover for sure. #4. 2005- He struggled a ton on 1.5 & 2 mile race tracks. Had 12 finishes of 30th or worse and finished 11th in points. However he had 4 wins including a Daytona 500 win. This season used to be #1 on my list but ill take this season over any of the seasons above. #5.1994- He earned two of the biggest wins of his career but still struggled to be consistent. Earning I believe more DNFs than the year before. He still managed to finish 8th in points. However 1995 began I new legendary chapter in his caree4. 214. Mr X posted: 03.19.2012 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF if today is your birthday, then happy birthday, and we share the same birthday, except I'm 19 today. 215. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, Hendrick is not going winless this year. In fact, I think Jimmie Johnson will probably nab Hendrick's 200th win at Martinsville, the site of the team's very first win in 1984, when it was known as All-Star Racing, and I think Johnson may keep winning and be a contender for the title. And Cooper, even if Kenseth did something wrong, they were not going to black flag him because of how close it was. In fact, if not for the ultra slow motion replay, we still might not know who beat who to the S/F line on the restart in question. And if the second place guy beats the leader to the line and it's close, NASCAR will almost always let it stand, no matter the reason. It's only when it's obvious that a restart violation has occurred that they'll throw the black flag, and a drive through penalty is more penal at Bristol than anywhere else on the circuit, if it has to be done under green flag conditions. 216. Anonymous posted: 03.19.2012 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) B to the S!!! That was not the right call on Kenseth. You either drop the black flag on a guy for beating the leader to the line or you don't. If you say "close is good enough" then you have to define how close. Otherwise Nascar can play favorites and make it closer for some drivers than others. 217. Alexander posted: 03.19.2012 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh Bristol, why did they kill you? 218. Scott B posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just a comment on the all the Vickers love... Yes, he drove a very good race, knowing his performance would be under the microscope. However, if I were a team owner (or a sponsor), I'd still be very hesitant about making a commitment to him for a full season or more. For a team willing to take on a veteran with talent but baggage in 2013, the top name on the list is still Kurt Busch and not Brian Vickers. Vickers may find something, but a lot of doors will remain closed to him. 219. FourNewTires posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) PRAISE THE LORD!!!!! They are considering changing the track back for the August race! http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/7710281/bristol-motor-speedway-owner-considering-changes 220. FourNewTires posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) PRAISE THE LORD!!! They are considering changing the track back for the August race! 221. Cooper posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, it has nothing to do with "how close it was". You will get blacked flag if you beat the leader by 1 inch or 1 mile. The reason is this: "NASCAR says Kenseth legally beat Keselowski to line on Bristol restart: Generally, there are two cardinal rules when it comes to NASCAR's double-file restarts: don't change lanes before you cross the start/finish line and if you're in second, don't beat the leader to the start/finish line. With 154 laps to go in Sunday's Food City 500, #17-Matt Kenseth restarted second. The leader, #2-Brad Keselowski, was next to him on the inside line. It was the first time the leader had taken the inside line all day. Kenseth clearly beat Keselowski to the start/finish line as you can see in the video above, and the two entered turn one side-by-side before Kenseth prevailed and cleared Keselowski a few laps later. Kenseth never conceded the position to Keselowski, nor was he black-flagged by NASCAR. Why? Because according to NASCAR spokesman Kerry Tharp, race officials deemed that Keselowski hadn't mashed the gas in the designated restart zone before the start/finish line, allowing the second-place driver -- Kenseth -- the right of way to accelerate on his own.(Yahoo Sports)(3-19-2012)" 222. 10andJoe posted: 03.19.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) California entry list is out. 46 cars: -Mike Bliss in the Humphrey Smith Racing #19 -Schrader in the #32 -Gaughan's last race in the #33 -Stacy Compton in the #74 223. ch posted: 03.19.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Compton was initially entered in the 74 at Bristol, they most likely will change it again. Don't know ANYTHING about the 19, anyone? 224. ch posted: 03.19.2012 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Compton was initially entered in the 74 at Bristol, they most likely will change it again. Don't know ANYTHING about the 19, anyone? 225. Lugnut18 posted: 03.19.2012 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If they want to solve all problem with bristol... Get rid of the progressive banking and pave it with ASPHALT! Whoever thought paving an oval with concrete should be shot. 226. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Truth, I wasn't saying that he intentionally cut Gordon's tire. However, I am saying that the contact itself was intentional, because he clearly drove into Gordon on the backstretch." I didn't realize until after I made the reply. Not sure if you saw, but I replied again saying I probably misinterpreted it since it made sense to me once I read it again. My bad. "I don't think anyone was happier to see Gordon's and Dale, Jr.'s teams do the shop swap than Mark Martin, who loved having Gordon's team there, instead of Dale, Jr.'s, which tells me that Martin thought that Dale, Jr.'s team was dragging the old #5 team down." That'd be foolish had Mark actually thought the swap helped him, as it was a dreadful year compared to his two prior in the #5 when Jr was his "shopmate". After Mark got Lance McGrew as a crew chief, it was a very mediocre run resulting in finishing 22nd in points. "And yes, this season will be worse for Gordon than his 2005 season, when he won four times. The question is, will this season be as bad as 2008 was for him, because that was probably his worst season to date." I look at 2008 about how I look at 2010. Decent seasons, but just no wins. Several times he came close, but "no cigar" I suppose. I forgot about Gordon's 4 wins in 2005, even though I was glancing over the stats. I think it's just because, from his 1995 season through today, 2005 provided the least top 5s, least top 10s, and worst average finish. He had way too many races where he was just out to lunch. It's easy to forget about his rookie season, which understandably might as well be considered his worst season in Cup... but hey, that's being a rookie. I personally expect Gordon to at least have a season on par with 2010. I personally expect a win or two thrown in, though. He ran great yesterday and a number of posters were snapping, expecting the absolute worse. It's been a rough start to the season, but I fully expect Gordon to at least manage a year equal to how he's looked for the past few years, wins or not. At this point, we're just predicting, and we'll have to let the rest of the season dictate the facts. If I was a Gordon fan though, I wouldn't think he's on his way for a Dale Jr-2009 type season like someone else brought up. 227. Scott B posted: 03.19.2012 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The #19 is headed up by Randy Humphrey, who used to be a partner with Eddie D'Hondt in NNW and ARCA. With no primary sponsor, I suspect they'll start & park if they're lucky enough to make the race. 228. Ivan posted: 03.19.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bring it back Brutan, bring it back. The minute the first bulldozer makes ground it's a sellout!!! 229. Mr X posted: 03.19.2012 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Jeff Gordon will have another season similar to 2006. That season started the same way, and overall they were just the occasional contender for wins that year, however they were still a good team. 230. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But remember The Truth, that Martin was a lame duck driver the entire season last year, so how do we know the equipment and team he had behind him were first rate? I think that may have been a reason behind having the lowest-echelon people at Hendrick Motorsports (like Lance McGrew) on Mark's car. And everyone talks about if they change Bristol back to the way it was, that it will be the same as it was. It won't be, I can promise you, for this one simple reason. Remember that the Bristol night race has been neutered since 2004 because of it's place on the schedule in relation to the Chase cutoff (it's the third-to-last race prior to the cutoff), and that was three years prior to when it was reconfigured. As a result, drivers in Chase contention can't be gung-ho because of the potential consequences, anyway. As a result, the drivers in Chase contention will be very conservative and just try to get through the race. And if there's as substantial a difference in the banking from the bottom to the top as what I hear it is (6 degrees), then what should be done, if anything, is to just reduce the banking up top by about 3-4 degrees to make the lines more even. Have a 2 degree difference between the banking up top and the banking at the bottom. That way, a driver can still pass on the bottom, while the top groove would still be available for drivers to be able to defend their position. And Cooper, the difference between Kenseth and Keselowski on the restart in question appeared to be less than a foot. So close that we (and NASCAR officials without scoring monitors) really couldn't tell for sure without an ultra slow motion replay and a freze frame at the S/F line. That's what I mean by when things are close like that, NASCAR will allow some leeway where the rules come in. After all, it would be silly to assess what could be as much as a 2-lap penalty for being less than a foot in front of the leader on a restart. After all, at Bristol, because of the fact that lap times under green are 16 seconds, if you even have to do a pass through, you could very easily lose 2 laps, and NASCAR knows that and will not assess such a penalty unless they're absolutely sure that it's an obvious infraction, which this was not, though NASCAR could also be correct in their reasoning. 231. Talon64 posted: 03.19.2012 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski picks up his 5th career Sprint Cup Series victory. His 5 wins since 2009 rank him T-8th among all drivers. It's his 2nd straight Bristol win, making him the 13th driver to go back-to-back and the 17th multi-time winner. They're his only top 10's in 5 starts (10.4 avg fin). Keselowski led a career-high 232 laps in the race; he only led a total of 117 laps in his 3 wins in 2011, and 298 laps on the season. 347 of his 584 career laps led have come at Bristol. It's Penske Racing's 72nd career Cup win, and 10th at Bristol which is their most at any track. Interestingly enough, Keselowski has also contributed to Penske's 7 Pocono wins which is tied with Dover for their 2nd most. Matt Kenseth finishes runner-up for the 22nd time in his career, matched evenly with his 22 wins. He now has 44 top 2 finishes in 440 starts, which gives him a top 2 finishing percentage of exactly 10%. He also has 2 top 2's in the first 4 races of 2012. Bristol is now the 4th track that Kenseth has at least 10 top 5's at and ties him with Dover for his most top 10's at any track with 17 (11.6 avg fin in 25 starts). It's also where he's led the most laps, 897. After having just 3 top 5's in a 3 year span, Martin Truex Jr. has 4 in the last 19 races. Two of them have come in his last 2 Bristol starts, a 2nd and a 3rd, after no top 10's and a 22.4 average finish in his first 11 starts there. It's also his 6th top 10 in the last 9 races overall, dating back to last season. Clint Bowyer follows up his first top 10 with MWR at Las Vegas with his first MWR top 5 at Bristol. Bowyer has two 4th place finishes in his last 7 Bristol starts, his only top 10's over that span (20.4 avg fin, but includes 2 engine failures). Brian Vickers led a career-high 125 laps in his 1st start of 2012 and 1st start for MWR in the #55. Not only that, he picked up his first top 5 and just his 6th top 10 in 42 career short track starts (23.0 avg fin). Vickers had only led 1 lap in his previous 14 Bristol starts (no top 10's, 24.6 avg fin prior to this race). Michael Waltrip Racing gets 3 cars into the top 5 for the first time in their history. They'd only had 17 top 5's in 423 starts prior to racking up 3 at Bristol, where they'd had just 2 top 5's in 23 prior starts (doesn't include JTG-Daughtery's results as in-MWR-shop team). Jeff Burton already has 2 top 10's through the first 4 races of 2012, after none in the first 21 races of 2011. In fact, he has 6 top 10's in his last 9 starts dating back to last season including 5 finishes of 6th or better. It's his first top 10 in his last 6 Bristol starts, but his 8th straight top 10 finish (15 top 10's in 37 starts, 17.5 avg fin). Jamie McMurray has back-to-back top 10's for the first time since July of 2010 at Chicagoland (5th) and Indy (1st). It's his 8th top 10 in 19 Bristol starts (17.1 avg fin), with 4 of them coming in the last 5 races. Juan Pablo Montoya picks up his 50th career top 10 in his 185th series start. It's also his first top 10 of 2012, which ended an 11 race drought dating back to 2011. It's his 3rd top 10 in 11 Bristol starts (18.3 avg fin). Jimmie Johnson now has 3 straight top 10's since his disastrous Daytona 500, which has seen him go from dead last in the standings to 17th. Without the 25 point penalty he'd be 11th. It's his 6th top 10 in his last 7 Bristol starts (9.0 avg fin, includes a 35th place finish). Paul Menard picks up his 3rd top 10 in the first 4 races of 2012; last season he had 1 top 5 and 2 top 10's but sat 5th in points versus 10th so far this year. It's his 2nd straight top 10 in the spring Bristol race, his only top 10's in 10 starts there (20.5 avg fin). Only 1 of the top 10 qualifiers for the race finished in the top 10, and that was race winner Brad Keselowski who started 5th. Greg Biffle's streak of top 3 finishes to start 2012 came to an end, but he earned his 10th career Cup pole. Kurt Busch gets his 2nd top 20 finish in his first 4 starts with Phoenix Racing. 232. Eric posted: 03.19.2012 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Peter, Stewart-Haas's performance really hasn't dropped and Danica can't be blamed at all for Stewart-Haas. The other thing to look at is Stewart Haas had a couple major changes with the organization after 2011 ended. If you watched the race at Phoenix, Tony Stewart's finish was nowhere close to how good his car was. The finish Stewart had was a result of him shutting of his car to save fuel and it didn't restart while being in the top 5. If you compare Stewart at this time in 2011 to this year after 4 races, Stewart's team is stronger. The 14 team struggled to make it into the chase last year without a win. While they won the championship, the first 26 races were not of a championship caliber team. A better indication were the 14 team is would be after Martinsville. The 39 team is never good indicator how good Stewart-Hass organization is because of the driver. Ryan Newman is anywhere from 1 to 2 steps below Stewart as a driver. Ryan Newman hasn't meet expectations as after what he showed in 2002 and 2003. Ryan hasn't been on that level since then. He is a person a lot of people expected him be on the same level as Jimmie Johnson after his first two years as a cup driver and was thought up possibly being the better driver. Newman has problems with consistency for a long time. Last year was Ryan Newman's best season as a cup driver since 2003 as a whole. Ryan Newman is a great qualifier, had driver to pass, but his weak points as Ryan Newman is a good driver, but will not win a cup championship. Ryan is a driver that will finish in the top 10 in points for year, and that is it you could expect in most years out of him. That is why I don't believe you can judge an organization off Ryan Newman. I do agree that Danica is a bad move that organization though because that organization has the capabilities of getting a better driver than her. She is younger than Stewart, and Newman, but her talent level as a stock car driver is way below Newman. 233. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.19.2012 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks LordLowe and Mr X. And yes, I called it. It had to be done, and it will. RIP The New Coke Speedway ('07-'12). You will not be missed. 234. Anonymous posted: 03.19.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They're considering changing Bristol back? Geez. Having been to races at both the old and new configurations, I've enjoyed the new configuration races a lot more. The old one had a better atmosphere, but this new one puts on a better race. But then again I never needed crashes and bumping to enjoy racing, so I guess my vote doesn't count. All I know is I'll have 3 tickets for sale if they change the track back and the crowds come with it. I'm not dealing with that again. 235. Bronco posted: 03.19.2012 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And the reason I say that Hendrick should never have allowed Kahne to bring his own crew chief with him was that he did that with Dale, Jr., and while that idea started promising, it turned into an unmitigated disaster." How was it an unmitigated disaster? When Dale Jr first joined HMS he was routinely the best performing car, in fact 4+ years later his best performance at HMS was the first half of 2008 when he would lead lots of laps and usually finish in the top 10. They won a race that year - fuel mileage or not, and made the chase, although they struggled during the second half of the year which led to their struggles in 2009. The 2009 Coke 600 was one of Dale Jr's worst races ever which was what led to Tony Jr's dismissal, and Lance McGrew coming on board. " And who's to say that if Francis wasn't allowed to come to Hendrick with Kahne immediately, that he wouldn't have wound up back with Kahne eventually. " That doesn't make any sense, why should Kasey let go of a crew chief that he's won lots of races with and go with someone else, risk struggling with them and then have to call back his old crew chief? Kenny Francis is doing everything he can to make the #5 car competitive while Kasey is doing everything he can to screw it up by wrecking on his own in two of the first four races. I know he'll get it turned around eventually but I don't think he makes the chase. "And your comment about Dale, Jr. staying in the back with the other Hendrick cars at Daytona and Talladega last year was more than likely an organizational decision, as Hendrick's drivers have been doing that since the advent of the cuurent car." That's completely wrong, Jimmie always employs that strategy at the fall Talladega race and it usually works for him. However Dale Jr has almost always been the lead HMS driver at Daytona/Talladega, leading laps and not hanging in the back until last year, when him and the #48 became drafting partners. And after the disastrous fall race at Talladega last year, Jr said he would never hide in the back again. 236. Red posted: 03.19.2012 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm thrilled they're bringing Old Bristol back, but Bruton is such a tool with all his PR spin. From ESPN: "But Smith insisted it was the rain, not fan apathy over the current style of racing at Bristol, that contributed to Sunday's poor crowd." Seriously, Bruton?! So you're going to spend $1M to fix the style of racing...yet you insist that attendance issues have nothing to do with the style of racing? Why can't any of the corporate suits involed in NASCAR just own their mistakes and tell us the truth? Why must they treat us fans like we're a bunch of idiots? A little humility goes a long way. 237. cjs3872 posted: 03.19.2012 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, the pairing up of Dale, Jr. and Tony Eury, Jr. started great for the first half of the 2008 season, but after Dale, Jr. got his first (and to this date, only) win for Hendrick Motorsoprts, things began to go downhill for the #88 team, and by the middle of the Chase, and definately in 2009, it had become a disaster, but it started off great for them as you said. Now, as for the Hendrick cars running at the back at the plate races, they usually do that as a group for every plate race, except the Daytona 500, and have been since the 2007 fall race at Talladega, when thecurrent car was first used on the plate tracks. Yes, Dale, Jr. runs up front in the plate races more often than the other Hendrick drivers, and he ran up front during the entire Daytona 500, and look what that got him. A third runner-up finish in the Daytona 500, and he might have won if his car had any speed at all. But even he has run in the back, and I've actually seen him do that in some of the Nationwide plate races he's been in, so he's done that before. The Hendrick organization, as a group, likes to stay back there and stay out of trouble until late in the race. Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, and Mark Martin (through last year) always ran back there, so Dale, Jr. was going to end up there anyways, whether it was by choice, or because he didn't have any drafting partners, he was going to end up back there. And by the way, Jeff Gordon isn't excatly enamored with that tactic either, as he likes to run up front, but realizes his best chance to stay out of trouble is to stay in the back, so if he's put back there, he makes no effort to try to get up front until late in the race. Now as for your comment about Kasey not letting go of his crew chief. He almost certainly would have been forced to part with Kenny Francis if he went anywhere other than Hendrick Motorsports. But again, that's not to say they wouldn't have ended up back together, and again I use what happened in 1987 as the perfect example. Darrell Waltrip and Jeff Hammond had won many races and two championships together with Junior Johnson, but when Waltrip moved to Hendrick's new third team in 1987, he and Hammond were split up with Hammond staying at Junior's to be Terry Labonte's crew chief, while Waddell Wilson became Waltrip's crew chief. That was a complete and utter disaster for everyone involved. Hammond left Junior early in the 1987 season to reunite with Waltrip, with Tim Brewer becoming Labonte's crew chief, and both Waltrip and Labonte ran better after that, with Labonte finishing second in the Winston 500 in one of his first races with Brewer as his crew chief, and Wilson returning to his specialty, the engine room before becoming the crew chief on the #5 car in 1988. Meanwhile, Waltrip started to run better in the second half of the 1987 season, and by 1989, was again showing why he was the driver of the 1980s, winning four big races, including his only Daytona 500 (1989) and his second set of back-to-back Coca-Cola 600 wins (1988-'89). 238. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But remember The Truth, that Martin was a lame duck driver the entire season last year, so how do we know the equipment and team he had behind him were first rate? I think that may have been a reason behind having the lowest-echelon people at Hendrick Motorsports (like Lance McGrew) on Mark's car." Oh absolutely. Mark was driving the 88 cars from the previous year. Many people figured it was just Jr's fault in regards to the 21st place finish in 2010 points, but Mark ran those cars the next year with the same team that Jr had and had a similar season, ending up 22nd. Lance McGrew is certainly not in the upper echelon of Hendrick in regards to crew chiefs. Chris Heroy, who was the chief engineer, has since moved on to be the crew chief for Juan Montoya this year. The 5 team of 2011 was basically the 88 team of 2010 with no changes, which made Mark take over the weakest link of Hendrick. Seems to me that what really dragged the 5 car down was the transition to 2011 and the pieces were in play in 2010 for Mark to do well, but he couldn't achieve what he had in 2009 (also with Jr as the shopmate). I just don't believe that the switch was of big relief to Mark Martin, or that he felt the 88 was dragging him down. If the 88 does drag the shopmate down, then it was the 5 dragging down the 24 last year since it ran no better once they swapped numbers. 239. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.19.2012 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Bronco, the pairing up of Dale, Jr. and Tony Eury, Jr. started great for the first half of the 2008 season, but after Dale, Jr. got his first (and to this date, only) win for Hendrick Motorsoprts, things began to go downhill for the #88 team, and by the middle of the Chase, and definately in 2009, it had become a disaster, but it started off great for them as you said." I think a big factor was the loss of Darian Grubb as the 88 car chief. I'm pretty sure he was the car chief until mid to late summer 2008, and the fall-off in performance was immediately substantial 240. Talk4Tar posted: 03.20.2012 - 3:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why can't any of the corporate suits involed in NASCAR just own their mistakes and tell us the truth? Why must they treat us fans like we're a bunch of idiots? A little humility goes a long way." The fact that fans would demand the old Bristol, over the current Bristol is exactly why NASCAR fans get treated like idiots. An indecisive attitude, and inability to be pleased. 241. 10andJoe posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The fact that fans would demand the old Bristol, over the current Bristol is exactly why NASCAR fans get treated like idiots. An indecisive attitude, and inability to be pleased. " ...this argument would be relevant if you were referring to the pack-tandem-pack restrictor plate racing. NOBODY asked for BRISTOL to be changed. 242. Watto posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs "But of those 49 caution laps, a whopping 22 were run during the first caution period. Now someone tell me why it took NASCAR so long to clean the track after that multi-car incident." Because it was basically 2 yellows in one. Once they cleaned the track, they decided that they'd have the competition yellow immediately rather than throwing the green followed by a yellow 9 laps later. 243. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 9:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Watto, my complaint was just how long it took them to clear the inside of the track so that the pits could be opened. It took them a good 15 laps of caution to open the pits because they couldn't clean up the track, and that's inexcuseable. Besides, NASCAR's moved up competition cautions before due to early cautions, so why couldn't they have moved it up to about lap 35 or 40. Now if they ran that many caution laps because of, say damage to the fencing, I could understand that, but 15 laps of caution to clean up the inside of the track so that the pits could be opened? That's utterly ridiculous. After all, they've cleaned up bigger wrecks that the one on the 24th lap on Sunday in less time than that. 244. FourNewTires posted: 03.20.2012 - 10:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The fact that fans would demand the old Bristol, over the current Bristol is exactly why NASCAR fans get treated like idiots. An indecisive attitude, and inability to be pleased. " Huh? What indecisive attitude? Fans loved the old Bristol and nobody was asking for that track to be changed. They didn't become displeased until they bulit this new version of the track. The majority of the fans have been pretty consistent with their stance. They liked the old Bristol better. 245. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 11:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was wondering when somebody else would make the connection between the New Bristol and the New Coke http://insiderracingnews.com/Writers/DD/032012.html In each case they had a tried and true formula that paying consumers couldn't get enough of, each instance that formula was inexplicably changed, and each time it caused major business hits. Coke had to go back to its original formula, and now it looks like Bristol will do the same. And this is a case where you can't blame the economy. Bristol's downturn in attendance isn't in sync with every other track's attendance woes. They initially remained strong, packeing 'em to the sky while other tracks (especially the rural tracks) fell off. But only in the last 2 or 3 years has Bristol fallen drastically. 80,000 fans vanished in 2 years. Just in time for fans to realize that it just isn't Bristol anymore. Of course this article also propigates the myth that the Old Bristol was nothing but bumper cars with EVERY pass made with the front bumper when that simply isn't true. But then again the drivers absolutely love the New Bristol compared to the old one, and media members don't want to risk alienating them. 246. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 11:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now I will discuss Brian Vickers' outstanding run. I have been his harshest critic for a number of reasons. Mainly the fact that he had seven full time seasons (and 1/3 of an eighth cut short by blood clots) and still looked like a rookie out there most of the time. Especially on the short tracks. And I most certainly predicted disaster with him running six short track races. But the fact is he did an outstanding job in this race. He kept his head on perfectly straight for 500 laps, didn't let the pressure of the moment get to him during his time up front (a major issue for him in the past, see the '05 Coke 600), and showed an excellent mix of patience and hard racing (another issue that haunted him in the past). This was simply the best race Brian has ever run in Cup. He looked like he belonged. When he absolutely needed it, he showed up big time (yet another problem for him in the past, most notably his "job auditions" in the last races of last year, even his holding off of Kyle Busch to make the cha$e in '09 was more a result of yet another one of Kyle's epic meltdowns under pressure). But I'm also not going to get to carried away with him just yet. There are some other factors to consider. First off, this is MWR's best track. His teammates finished 3rd and 4th, and Truex finished 2nd last Summer. Also, it isn't really a short track, it has multiple grooves which fits his style the best. Also, after many months of waiting for that phone to ring for a 2012 ride, and getting nothing, and only getting this ride because their first choice, Elliott Sadler, backed out either by force or his own doing (another story for another day), he had a lot of time to think about this. After getting into the Busch Series while still in high school with his Daddy's money, then being given a dream ride at 19 due to his close friendship with Ricky Hendrick, he had to figure racing in NASCAR was a birthright. I think he now realized just how dispensible he really is and just how little the NASCAR community thinks of him. The result was a laser focus which allowed him to make every lap count. I'll be the most interested to see how he runs at Martinsville. The one groove, slow it down type of track plays right out of his wheelhouse. Plus he will have the ghosts of last Fall's race there by him (the worst race I have ever seen anyone run in Cup with more than two year's experience) riding right next to him. Also, this track had been torture on MWR in the past. Plus he has everyone kissing his ass right now, talking about what a great story it is (which is true). That is another past demon he will have to overcome, following up success. He won the Busch championship in 2003 and was touted as the next big thing in Cup for '04 where he looked like shit and was outrun badly by hardly known at the time fellow rookie Kasey Kahne. And his dramatic climb into the 2009 cha$e was followed by the worst post season performance ever. If he runs good at the paper clip, then I'll really be impressed. But he did great in this race, and I tip my hat to him. Let's see if he can keep it up. 247. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 12:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Huh? What indecisive attitude? Fans loved the old Bristol and nobody was asking for that track to be changed. They didn't become displeased until they bulit this new version of the track. The majority of the fans have been pretty consistent with their stance. They liked the old Bristol better." Thank you. I don't get where this "fan flip flopping" thing comes from. Not even in plate racing. We made two things very clear about plate racing: we hated the single file '95-'00 style of plate racing and we hated tandem racing (or in my case, the side effects from that like the politics). They got rid of tandem racing, but the new rules package basically gave us late 90's Daytona racing all over again. Also, outside of plate tracks, we haven't exactly been clamoring for side by side all the time racing. You know what track NASCAR fans have pretty consistently targeted as some of the worst racing? Michigan, the Four Wide Capitol of the World. I'd also like to clear up this whole "Martinsville was a two groove track from Fall '02 - Spring '04" thing. I was there for all of those races, and that isn't totally accurate. When they ground up the bottom groove, it basically just move the groove up one lane. Yeah, they had the ground up lane down low, and you could use it, but you had to be quite a bit faster to pass down there. All that did was basically flip flop the groove next to the curbing and the groove one car lenght up. When it came apart and they had to repave it before the Fall '04 race, they put it back the way it was, tweaking it only slightly by extending the concrete into the straightaways a little. Nobody complained and Martinsville has consistenly put on the best races for the past few years now. Again, we like watching people compete for the same real estate. Watching drivers try to get that nose underneath the car in front before corner entry is fun as hell. One small piece of property, a mad fight to get it. Love it. 248. LordLowe posted: 03.20.2012 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF want to team up to take out the Go Daddy Princess and Little E. 249. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's one very big difference between Bristol and Martinsville, when it comes to racing there, and that's the 30 MPH difference in speed, despite the 0.007 mile difference in the length of those two tracks. At Bristol, I feel that you have to have at least two raceable groves, because if you have a one-groove track at Bristol, half the field would spend time in the garage area fixing wrecked race cars, because a spin (or blown tire) at Bristol would usually mean a siginificant crash. Not to mention that if you set someone up to pass them, there wouldn't be enough time to make the move before you have to back off for the next turn because you're on the straightaway for between 2-3 seconds. But Martinsville is much different. There, because of the much slower speeds, you can get away with having a narrower groove, because a spin at Martinsville might not even cost you much more than a lap (you can sometimes spin out at Martinsville and not even lose a lap), certainly not a race car, except for rare instances (stuck throttle, failing brakes, and a rare significant crash). Even a tire failure would usually cost you only two or three laps, which under today's rules, can be made up, instead of costing you a car. Also, if you set up someone to pass them at Martinsville, unlike Bristol, you spend twice as much time (5-7 seconds) on the straightaway, which would allow you the time you need to get inside of the car in front of you and complete the pass. The above things I've just mentioned is why, even if they change Bristol again, they need to make it to where you can pass down low, while making it possible to defend your position up high, which is why I say that if they do anything, they should reduce the banking in the upper groove to make it closer to what it is in the lower groove. But they probably did need to repave the track surface, which was 15 years old, and apparently showing signs of doing what happened at Martinsville in 2004. And let's not forget that the reason they paved Bristol and Dover with concrete was that, no matter what they did, the track kept coming apart. Paving it with concrete was the only way to stop that. That reason is also why the turns at Martinsville were paved with concrete, in the mid 70s, I believe. But Martinsville is just fine, as it is. A one to one and a half groove Martinsville is somewhat tolerable due to the slower speeds (again, 30 MPH sloer than Bristol), but a one-groove Bristol is a recipe for disaster. For those that don't remember, a one-groove Bristol could send up to 20-25 cars to the garage area due to wrecks, as many wrecked cars as you'd see in a Daytona or Talladega race. 250. John Royal posted: 03.20.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So where do we cast our votes for Bristol repair? 251. Talk4Tar posted: 03.20.2012 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NOBODY asked for BRISTOL to be changed. " Completely untrue, and you'd have no way of knowing. Amongst those who asked to change Bristol were the drivers themselves. Don't speak in definitives and generalities, because there's no way they were correct. The fact remains there were people out there who wanted to see Bristol changed. At least 102,000 people were okay enough with the New Bristol to show up, which is more than enough for the track to make money (and also a decline in attendance on par with the other big events in motorsports). As for fan flip flopping, NASCAR fans are the worst. Even when a change is made that was much ballyhooed by NASCAR fans, they still whine about it. I can guarantee, following the Truck race at Rockingham there will be at least a few dyed in the wool NASCAR Fans who complain about the race, despite the fact so many peopled begged for NASCAR to go back there. To say NASCAR Fans don't flip flop, again, is denying evidence we have all seen, countless times. It's one thing to be on opposites sides of the Bristol issue, it's a whole other thing to deny the attitude this website is a shrine to. 252. Speed Racer posted: 03.20.2012 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Put the thunder back in the valley Bruton! 253. Talk4Tar posted: 03.20.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://www.bristolmotorspeedway.com/news_media/news_releases/604665.html This is the link to give your feedback. Have fun turning a race track into a bumper car course, NASCAR Fans. The racing will be worse, but the crashes will be cool! 254. FourNewTires posted: 03.20.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talk4Tar, I'd like you to provide a link showing where the drivers asked Bristol to be changed from its 1993 to 2007 configuration because I remember no such thing. The track probably needed to be repaved, but that's a whole different animal than what they actually did with the progressive banking that has robbed the track of its character, which so many of us loved. And while there may have been some fans out there who wanted Bristol changed, they certainly were not making their voices heard and therefore NOT ASKING for progressive banking. All I ever read (and heard) after most 93-07 Bristol races were things along the lines of "WOW, WHAT A RACE", and "I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THEY COME BACK HERE". Now half the conversation is about how the track needs to be changed back to its 93-07 form. That speaks volumes! The bottom line is that a vast majority of Nascar fans were thrilled with old Bristol and want it back again. A poll I saw on ESPN yesterday had 79% of the fanbase wanting the track changed back. 255. Linda posted: 03.20.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ John Royal (Post #250) One big vote here for old Bristol. Can't see a real race like that anymore where men are men and have to earn the piece of realestate they are driving on. 256. Ivan posted: 03.20.2012 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I posted this above but if we're voting now... "Bring it back Brutan, bring it back. The minute the first bulldozer makes ground it's a sellout!!!" 257. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Earn the piece of real estate your driving on? How, by wrecking the guy in front of you? While I'm not certain Bristol needed to be changed, it did need to be repaved for the reasons mentioned in post #249. The only thing that might change the amount of cars wrecked if they go to something like the old Bristol layout would be how the bumpers line up. Otherwise, you'd see a race with 100-130 caution laps and about half the field in the garage area with wrecked race cars at some point in the race. I mean, who would want to see a race in which half the time spent is spent behind the pace car and only 25 cars, at most, stay on the track for the duration of the race due to the fact that everyone else is in the garage getting their wrecked cars repaired. Again, the groove at Bristol needs to be a bit wider (by 4-8 feet) than the groove at Martinsville because they're going 30 MPH faster at Bristol. A spin out at Bristol usually means a trip to the garage, because he's had a hard crash. A spin out at Martinsville usually means nothing more than a lost lap, four new tires, and minor damage repair. That's a BIG difference. But also remember that many drivers, regardless of the layout, can't afford to be aggressive when the series returns to Bristol in late August, because of the Chase, so that's going to be a very conservative race, anyway. 258. 18fan posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All of the #48 team's penalties were rescinded except Chad's fine. Luck is back with that team again, hopefully it will run out before the chase so he can't romp to a 6th title. I wouldn't care if he wins it, but I would at least want to see Jimmie fight for it and have the points battle come right down to the end. 259. Anonymous posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They won't be as conservative now that Nascar counts points from wins towards the Chase and has two Wild Card spots completely determined by wins. Under the old Chase system yes but I think we would see a race closer to late 90's Bristol than what we saw the first few years the Chase was introduced if they changed the track back - Which I am all for by the way. 260. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever seen. 261. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#258), they will have to be conservative, unless they are battling for the win. Those that are battling for the win will battle as they always have. My comment on how conservaitve the August race at Bristol will be was a general comment regarding those in Chas contention at the time the race is being held. But then again, you could see a strategy where a team decides to run 15th-20th the entire race until about lap 350-370, when they make their final pit stop, then stay out when everyone else pits to get up front, and wind up staying there because you can't pass them. And while I'm okay with all the penalties against Chad Knaus (except for the $100,000 fine) and his car chief being overturned from their pre-inspection violation, I would have liked to have seen the points penalty reduced from 25 down to about 10, instead of completely overturned. I'm not sure Knaus and his car chief should ever have been suspended in the first place for this particular offense. The only possible reason would be the potential safety situation with his own driver, especially given what happened at the end of the very first lap of the Daytona 500. The bigger thing to me during this entire episode is that this was a total rebuke of how NASCAR handled this, and how it laid too harsh a penalty for something they could have had the team simply fix and go to the inspection line with. Aside from a minor points penalty, I think the end result is about what it should be for this infraction, considering when it was discovered. 262. 18fan posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So Hendrick said this same car was run at all four plate tracks last year. The same car that Chad told Jimmie to back into the fence if he won the race. 263. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What is, DSFF? Most of the penalties against the #48 team being overturned or my opinion that the Bristol night race, regardless of what layout it's on, will be a conservative race, due to how close to the Chase cutoff it is. You never specified exactly which. 264. 18fan posted: 03.20.2012 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) in post 261 it should read "that Chad told Jimmie to back into the fence if he won the race at Talladega in the fall" 265. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First off, allowing the final appeal to be heard and ultimately judged by a former business partner and associate of Rick's is a total pile of crap. I can't believe NASCAR allowed that. And once again, dirty business is done by Rick Hendrick. He does it in his car business and hiis racing business. I think it is official now that everything HMS has accomplished should be looked at with a raised eyebrow. For so long the laundry list of offenses by HMS is simply stunning. Darrell won the Daytona 500 that was dominated by fellow HMS teammate in 1989, and eventually it is realized they have illegal floating parts in their carberautor that had to be welded down. This was discovered after Darrell's awful wreck practicing for the 1990 Firecracker 400 which led to the second lap disaster. In 1993, Ken Schrader almost had to sit out 4 races himself after yet another carberautor infraction. Terry once had his crew chief suspended in the 90s. And Ray Evernham got a fine that was a record for a while for illegal suspension pieces that were only discovered because Jeff's wheel fell off 266. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoops, hit submit too soon. Anyways, now add all of Chad's infractions, and nothing HMS has done can be looked at in a straight light. Even after being busted so many times, why do they keep cheating? Can they be successful without cheating? It sure doesn't look like it. And why did the fine stand? If it was legal, that would be overturned too right? Now we can't look past the pink elephant in the room, the legendary careers of Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson are tainted. The only good news for me is that the "Jeff Gordon was better than Earnhardt" crowd have no argument anymore. NASCAR is a joke, their inability to rein in HMS undermines their very credibility. I once again find myself wondering why I still support this shit. 267. Scott B posted: 03.20.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, how often does the "we did this before and you didn't call us on it" defense work? Never! Well, one time, now. I did NOT see that one coming. 268. LordLowe posted: 03.20.2012 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF does that mean you're not going to be attending the Martinsville Race 269. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Huh? Darrell Waltrip's practice crash had nothing at all to do with the second lap crash in the Firecracker 400 in 1990. That crash was caused by Greg Sacks (in another Hendrick car) having a spoiler angle reported to have been only 18 degrees, and with Daytona 500s winners Derrike Cope and Richard Petty on each side of him and the balance of the field behind them, he lost control, starting that massive wreck. And remember that there was also speculation about the fuel cell in Geoff Bodine's car after he won the 1986 Daytona 500. After all, his crew chief at the time, Gary Nelson, was known for fuel mileage and oversized gas tanks. And Hendrick's first-ever crew chief Harry Hyde was also known to have been involved in chicanery. But I think Waltrip's win in the 1989 Daytona 500 was totally legit. Remember that he spent the last 50 laps drafting Alan Kulwicki, who wasn't as fast, until Kulwicki cut a tire entering turn one on the 197th lap. If not for that, Waltrip would never have won that race. And it was shocking that race turned into a fuel mileage derby anyway because of all the tire failures that took place the entire week. Now I strongly disagree with you that this puts a shadow on the whole Gordon vs. Earnhardt argument, because that argument, at least in my mind, focuses on versatility rather than overall dominance, not to mention that Earnhardt's competition was mentally the weakest in the sport's history. And I don't ever remember any of Terry Labonte's Hendrick crew chiefs ever getting into trouble in the 1990s. Now, Ray Evernham did get away with a lot of things in his career at Hendrick, and to a point, even got away with that lightweight hub at Charlotte. Sure, he was fined $60,000 for what happened at the Coca-Cola 600 in 1995, but Gordon also swept all three segments of the All-Star Race with those same hubs the week before for a $300,000 payday. And while the T-Rex car has always aroused suspicions, that was a legal car while it ran. The only major cheating cloud I think would hover over Evernham and Gordon would be their utter dominance in the second half of the 1998 season, when I think they were using traction control, which NASCAR let them do because Ford would have won every race in the second half of the season otherwise, because they had such an absurd aerodynamic advantage on the GM cars that year. The only races Chevrolet won that year that Gordon didn't was Earnhardt's Daytona 500 win, along with short track races won by Bobby Hamilton (Martinsville in the Morgan-McClure #4 car) and Labonte (Richmond). And Gordon was probably going to win that race at Richmond if he hadn't been crashed by Rusty Wallace. And NASCAR has been known to let teams cheat. They once alowed a Chevrolet they knew was illegal to run in the 1965 World 600 at Charlotte because they wanted something other than Fords and Mercurys to run up front in the midst of the Chrysler boycott of NASCAR that year. 270. jC... posted: 03.20.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin taught us how to Dougie. 271. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They let the #27 Ford team cheat on the plate tracks in 1994 to keep McDonalds in the sport. And cjs, I would never say "that is just bullshit" to you. I enjoy our debates and appreciate your take on things whether I agree with them or not. 272. Watto posted: 03.20.2012 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To say NASCAR Fans don't flip flop, again, is denying evidence we have all seen, countless times. It's one thing to be on opposites sides of the Bristol issue, it's a whole other thing to deny the attitude this website is a shrine to." It depends on how you look at it. If you simply look at NASCAR fans as one group, then you'll always have the argument of flip-flopping because there will be complaints no matter what. However, it's usually different people making those complaints. For fans who like the old style of Bristol racing, they weren't looking for a repave with a difference of 6 degrees in banking from the top of the track to the bottom of the track. In regards to Bristol, I think people saying it used to simply be a race of bumper cars are going a little too far. Personally I just wished they only used 2 degrees of difference with the banking so that people wouldn't have to live by the high line to move forward in the field. CJS I'd really like you to explain to me how the flare of the c-pillar affects the safety of the driver. I've worked on these things. I'd like to think I have a pretty good understanding of them. That sheetmetal does not hold the structural integrity of the race car, and it being flared out by a fraction of an inch doesn't make it have any less effect than if it wasn't. The structural safety of the race car entirely about the roll cage and actual chassis. The C pillar sheet metal has absolutely no effect in protecting that structural integrity. It is literally built to cave in to the roll cage. The roll bars NEAR the C pillar DO have an effect. In regards to the poster who referenced Talladega, you must realize that, had he Jimmie Johnson backed it into the fence in post-race burnouts, it wouldn't have affected the flare of the C-pillars AT ALL. It's just something people are pointing to in order to prove something that defies logic. I personally believe that Chad's comments stemmed from Bowyer's massive penalty in the 33 when the car was supposedly very close to tolerances and knocked out of tolerance after the race by the push truck. Maybe they were so close to tolerances that they knew bump drafting all day could result in a penalty. "Can they be successful without cheating? It sure doesn't look like it." The answer would be yes. The last time Knaus was caught cheating was FIVE YEARS AGO! The car didn't even run in the race! The year before that, he was caught before the Daytona 500... once again, a car that wasn't run in the race. When he's pushed the envelope, he's pushed it BEFORE the car sees the track and the car is legal before the race starts and after the race finishes. When was the last time the 48 failed post-race tech? You can look it up. During his 5 titles in a row, the car has been legal during races. Not only was it legal, but they were watching him like a hawk. Remember in 2009 when the car was impounded after EVERY SINGLE CHASE RACE? Yeah, I'd say the 48 can be successful without cheating. I read here often and like reading what you have to say DSFF but I have to disagree with that statement for sure. I personally felt that the 48's penalties were too severe given the information about it and past consistency. Remember when Gibbs showed up with unapproved oil pans on all three cars that lowered the COG & helped undercarriage aerodynamics? Not even close to as big of a penalty. This isn't a direct response to anyone here, but it seems like many Kyle Busch fans point to the 48 as cheaters (let alone many NASCAR fans in general). Yet, when you look at the facts, Kyle Busch has failed tech 3x since venturing over to Gibbs. Compare that to the 48 who has only failed tech once in the same amount of time, coming prior to practice at the 500. If you even go back to the start of the 48 team, they havent been the most penalized team in NASCAR. Reputation isn't fact. 273. Watto posted: 03.20.2012 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wow, how often does the "we did this before and you didn't call us on it" defense work? Never! Well, one time, now." Don't believe that was the bulk of the defense sir lol 274. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, sorry about that, I only wanted to know what that comment was about, and now I know. And what you say about Junior Johnson's cars shouldn't be surprising since he was probably the biggest cheater in the sport's history. And let's not forget that Bill Elliott's #11 Budweiser car was probably cheated up in the same way at Talladega that July, since he was second to Spencer in that race after also not being a factor in any of the other plate races that year, either. It's also possible that NASCAR may have allowed Junior's team to cheat to keep Junior in the sport. If NASCAR did so for that reason, it backfired, since he only stuck around for one more year. Ironically, both sponsors left Junior after the 1994 season. McDonald's left to sponsor Elliott's team, while Budweiser moved on to Hendrick Motorsports' jinxed #25 car. 275. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watto, whether the "C" post has anything to do with any potential safety features is irrelevant. The fact is that a major reason NASCAR is so harsh with the penalties involving the shell of the new cars is partially because there's the possibility of compromising safety, as well as competition. The new car was introduced in 2007, more than anything else, to give the drivers a bigger area in which to get in and out, in the case of fire and anything that has to do with the greenhouse of the car (like the "C" post) is a big no-no, almost as big as having an oversized engine. That's why NASCAR orignially came down so hard, but NASCAR themselves got their hand slapped today. I don't think we'll see any more pre-inspection related penalties so harsh for some time. 276. Watto posted: 03.20.2012 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the penalty should be more severe because of safety implications, it's definitely relevant whether safety was jeopardized. NASCAR coming down hard on body violations on the COT has been more about keeping a more level playing. You can read a lot about it in regards to the Hendrick 2007 violations at Infineon Raceway as well as Dale Jr's violation a few months prior. I just did some google searching to ensure my memory served me right. Obviously anything that jeopardizes safety should be a huge violation, but fender flare on the nose and unapproved wing brackets in DEI's case had everything to do with performance and downforce and nothing to do with the car's safety. The Jimmie Johnson 2012 situation is definitely another case of messing with body panels that aren't covered by the claw, but had no effect on safety. I figured they deserved maybe a 6-10 point penalty just the same if it in fact was an illegal modification. However, if they deem it illegal based on a visual check by a couple of officials, there's something wrong with that. Should be measurements and facts and figures IMO before everything starts becoming about subjectivity. Certainly safety is a major role in inspection, but I don't believe these violations jeopardize safety. And I'd like to reiterate what DSFF said before - I enjoy reading your posts and certainly don't want to sound too brash when we actually disagree on things. 277. Watto posted: 03.20.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) more level playing field* 278. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK, now that I've had a bit to collect my thoughts, I will attempt a more readable post. First off, about the 1990 Firecracker 400, according to Darrell in one of his books, after his leg crushing practice crash in the Firecracker 400, NASCAR look over the car and discovered a floating block in the manifold. They immediately inspected the other HMS cars and forced them to weld them in place, including the R&D #18 car driven by Sacks which started on the front row. As a result he was, in Darrell's words, a moving roadblock. The jam up trying to get around him by the faster cars led to the contact which sparked the wreck. Now, considering how strong HMS was on the plate tracks in 1989 and the first 2 plate races of '90 (remember, Sacks gave Earnhardt all he wanted in the Winston 500 and Schrader ran up from a deep starting position in the Daytona 500 right up to Dale's bumper before he blew up) and considering they wouldn't win another plate race until '95, I think we can officially throw a cloud over that win. Now on to Gordon and JJ. Those are the two I feel bad for. They are two of the best pure racers this sport has ever seen. But I just don't see how we can look at their staggering numbers and wonder how how many of those wins and championships are tainted. If Gordon had to drive for RCR his whole career, would he have won 2 championships? Would he have broken the 40 win mark by now? It is like looking at Barry Bonds' home run numbers and wonder how many he would have hit were he not on 'roids. Considering HMS' long running list of infractions, how can one not wonder if they could ever win without cheating? Why would they keep it up after being caught so many times? And of course, for me personally, I wanna know how many races Dale would have won if he could have turned 28 in 1993, been given that #24 car with all the money and "innovations", and driven it for 22 seasons. 10 championships and 115 wins is NOT out of the question by any means. And this penalty overturn is quite simply bullshit. They kept the $100,000 fine in place. Why? If they were truly innocent, wouldn't everything be overturned? And why is NASCAR's chief appelate officer a former accosiate of Rick's? And how can Rick look himself in the mirror? Going through all this to get a proven cheater off. How many times now has Chad been fined for illegal stuff? Rick is just rubbing it in our faces now. The guy is dirty and does dirty business. In all areas. 279. Watto posted: 03.20.2012 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When it comes down to it, it seems that we mostly agree that they came down too hard at first and that it was fixable before practice even started. 280. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.20.2012 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The last time Knaus was caught cheating was FIVE YEARS AGO!" The key word is "caught". Were it not for the in car camera catching Chad telling JJ to crack the car if he wins, NASCAR wouldn't have been on this. IT is a fluke they even know about it. So how many other areas has he been cheating in that have never been realized? And again, I don't care if it was 50 years ago, why start up cheating again if you can win without it? BTW, we're cool. 281. cjs3872 posted: 03.20.2012 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And DSFF, let's not forget that Ken Schrader won the Talladega 500 in 1988, and that Hendrick Motorsports won the pole for both Daytona races in 1988. But I seriously doubt that Hendrick would be cheating with their engines back then for one major reason. Waddell Wilson was involved with building the engines at Hendrick, as he was one of Hendrick's crew chiefs from 1987-1991, and again in 1993 with Al Unser, Jr., and the one thing that Wilson would not tolerate more than anything else was cheating, becuase of how he was broughy up with Holman-Moody back in the 1960s. In fact, the incident you mentioned during the 1993 Firecracker 400 may have been what caused Wilson to leave Hendrick Motorsports, if he hadn't left already. Hendrick's engines were as dominant in the first three years of the modern retrictor plate era as were the engines of Harry Ranier's team from 1978-'86. The only common denominator was Waddell Wilson. Wilson may never have been Hendrick's chief engine builder, but you can bet he was heavily invoved in the engine program in the years he worked for Rick Hendrick. As for your point about how successful Dale Earnhardt might have been in Hendrick equipment if, hypothetically, he was in that equipment at the age at which he was a rookie. He might have had close to the same success, but I believe he would not have won at the variety of tracks that Jeff Gordon has won at, and that, in my opinion, is Gordon's trump card over Earnhardt. Earnhardt would have won at the same tracks over and over (37 of his 76 wins, nearly half of his entire win total, came at just four tracks), but he would have still struggled at many of the same tracks he struggled at. One of Earnhardt's greatest strengths was that once he got a handle of a place, he held on to it, but one of his greatest weaknesses was that if he struggled at a particular place, he rarely ever got the handle on it. 282. Bronco posted: 03.20.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "First off, allowing the final appeal to be heard and ultimately judged by a former business partner and associate of Rick's is a total pile of crap" Agreed, it comes as no surprise to me that a GM executive gave an owner with a ton of GM dealerships with a successful longtime GM team a badly needed break. It's a joke that the Chief Appellate Officer is someone without exactly a neutral background. I guarantee he wouldn't have overturned the penalty if Carl Edwards's team had presented their oil tank lid case from 2008 Las Vegas to him 283. FourNewTires posted: 03.21.2012 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "One of Earnhardt's greatest strengths was that once he got a handle of a place, he held on to it, but one of his greatest weaknesses was that if he struggled at a particular place, he rarely ever got the handle on it." I'm not so sure I completely agree. Earnhardt won EVERYTHING! He won championships, he won plate races, he won short tracks, he won intermediate tracks, he won at Darlington, he won at Pocono, he won at 1 mile tracks, he won at Indy, he won on high banked tracks, he won on flat tracks, and he even won on a road course. I'm struggling to come up with a place he didn't win at minus the few expansion tracks that didn't appear on the schedule until rigth before his death. 284. Anonymous posted: 03.21.2012 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am not pleased at the Chief Appellate Officer at all. Chief Appellate Officer did something the my late great wouldn't have approved of. I said that about my late great uncle because he was an arbitrator before he retired back in the later part of 1990's. He straight out and said many years ago that he doesn't believe in going arbitration cases that appears to be a conflict of interest. He said this while he was still an arbitrator at the time. 285. Bud posted: 03.21.2012 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a vote for Old Bristol. It used to be my favorite race track. Now it's not even in my top ten. If they don't change it back, I fear there will be even more empty seats next season. 286. cjs3872 posted: 03.21.2012 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) FourNewTires, when I say Earnhardt would have struggled at certain tracks, I'm not saying he wouldn't have won at those tracks. I'm just saying he would have struggled at those places overall. For instance, even though he won the second Brickyard 400 in 1995, he actually struggled there and at most flat tracks of at least one mile in length. After his win at Indy in 1995, he was only a real factor there once, in 1998, and his team had to use pit strategy to get him into contention in that race. Places like Pocono and Michigan were always struggles for him. Actually, though most of this can be chalked to bad luck, his winning percentage at Daytona was among the lowest of his career, as he won only three times in 46 starts there, though he should have won at least four more times that I can think of. The places where I said Earnhardt would have struggled are places he probably would have been able to win at, but my point was that when he got to a place where he struggled, he always struggled at those kinds of places, where if he got a hold of a track, such as Atlanta, Bristol, Darlington, and Talladega, the four tracks where he accumulated about half of his 76 career wins, he kept his advantage at those places. It's no real surprise that his last five wins, six of his last seven, and seven of his last nine wins came at Atlanta, Bristol, and Talladega, which backs up my theory about him. Of his last nine wins, the only ones that didn't come at the three tracks I mentioned were his win at Rockingham in the spring of 1996, where he wrecked Bobby Hamilton, who was driving the King's #43 car, to win, and the 1998 Daytona 500. 287. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.21.2012 - 1:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Old or new, I like Bristol regardless. While I believe that, with the racing we have seen at tracks like Sonoma and Martinsville and such, drivers will probably be inclined to use their bumpers, but if not, then what?!? I guarantee you the people will bitch that people will tire of the single file racing, and want something different. 288. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.21.2012 - 1:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for Jimmie Johnson, I get the conflict of interest, but at the same time, how many people, that said that the screws were being turned on the team, will now say that NASCAR is fixing things for the 48?!? 289. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.21.2012 - 1:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And one last thing. If they end up tearing up and repaving Bristol again, how about we make the pits one. I don't get why there are two separate pit roads. Rockingham had changed. Darlington has changed. Martinsville, the smallest track in the circuit WITH sharp corners no less did it. Why not do it for Bristol?!? 290. Clay posted: 03.21.2012 - 9:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rick Hendrick is a snake! Easily one of the most repulsive owners in all of sports. Everything he's accomplished needs to be called into question. 291. Matt G posted: 03.21.2012 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Brutan should leave turns 1 & 2 the same for the August race but put turns 3 & 4 back exactly as they were in the 93-07 configuration. This could cause some crazy action with cars getting side by side on one end of the track and beating and banging big time on the other. It's the best of both worlds. And if it doesn't work out, put the whole track back to the 93 to 07 configuration for the Spring race in 2013. 292. BON GORDON posted: 03.21.2012 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Clay do you think that Rick Hendrick is the only owner that has done things that needs to be questioned?! There are plenty of other people in different positions over the years in NASCAR that have cheated or have done something wrong. In my personal opinion I can not stand Jack Roush. He's a sore loser and a crybaby. I'm sorry but I would not care If one of the drivers ran him over. Don't care, sorry. Tiregate 1998 still has me mad to this day. 293. cjs3872 posted: 03.21.2012 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So what you're suggesting, Matt G, is something similar to the pre-1969 Darlington configuration, where you could race side-by-side through turns 1 and 2 (now 3 and 4) on thesharp end of the reack, while you had to run single-file through turns 3 and 4 (now 1 and 2) through the more sweeping end of the track. I think that's a bad idea, and here's why. With the cars getting around the track in 16 seconds under racing conditions, and on the straightaway for 2-3 seconds at a time, the drivers might not know what turns they're heading toward, so they wouldn't know if they're heading into the turn they can race in, or the turn they have to run single-file in. Another factor in why a lot of people don't like Bristol the way it is now is that it's now a slower track than it used to be, as well as being a multi-groove track where you can race anywhere on. With the banking between 6 and 12 degrees lower than it used to be, depending on where you're running, the speeds have dropped off some 3-5 MPH, which on a short track known for speeds, is like the speed dropping off 10-15 MPH on a speedway. The thrill of the speed is not what it once was. When Ryan Newman set the existing track record in 2003, he averaged 128.709 MPH on his qualifying lap. The pole speed for this past race was only 125.215 MPH, 3.5 MPH, or almost half a second slower than Newman's flying 14.9 second lap in 2003. 294. cjs3872 posted: 03.21.2012 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well BON GORDON, Tiregate 1998 may have been the ultimate flashpoint between Roush and Hendrick, but Roush suspected something foul was going on, and I think he was right, though he was more than likely wrong about exactly what. As I said in an earlier post, Gordon's team was most likely using traction control for most, if not all of the second half of that season, and NASCAR knew it and let them continue to do it for one reason, and that was that if NASCAR had not let Ray Evernham do whatever it was he was doing, and I suspect traction control, that Ford would have won every single race in the second half of that season, because they had an absurdly large aerodynamic advantage on the GM cars. NASCAR had to do soething about the competitve inbalance, and letting Gordon's team do waht they did to their cars was the solution. 295. BON GORDON posted: 03.21.2012 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have been watching NASCAR since 1997 and personally I like the new Bristol AND the Bristol from 93-07. I think that to say the new configuration is bad and produces bad racing is rediculous. Most NASCAR fans always moan and groan about something. They're like a group of women who can never be satisfied no matter what you do (sorry guys, just calling it like I see it). I would not care if they kept Bristol the way it is now or change it to the "old" configuration. I also like what Matt G posted and get alittle taste of both. That would be sweet. 296. BON GORDON posted: 03.21.2012 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And sorry CJS3872 your wrong. Or should I call you Jack Roush #2. No one will want to give Jeff credit for his 1998 accomplishments. Sry but he was the man in those days and just flat out killed everyone. I have respect for your opinions but your conspiracy theory and I'm sure others as well is a big load of cow crap. 297. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.21.2012 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Earnhardt would have won at the same tracks over and over (37 of his 76 wins, nearly half of his entire win total, came at just four tracks), but he would have still struggled at many of the same tracks he struggled at. One of Earnhardt's greatest strengths was that once he got a handle of a place, he held on to it, but one of his greatest weaknesses was that if he struggled at a particular place, he rarely ever got the handle on it." Most of the tracks he "struggled" on can be traced to one thing: horsepower. In only one season did he have comprable horsepower to the Ernie Elliotts and Waddell Wilsons and that was 1987. That year he finished 1st and 2nd at Michigan (1 of his 2 career wins there) and 5th and 1st at Pocono (1 of his 2 career wins there). His head engine builder for most of the 80s including his stint at Osterlund and RCR was Lou LaRosa. To quote Larry McReynolds whom Lou built engines for at the Quaker State team, his engines wouldn't be fast if they fell out of an airplane. As far as never getting a hold of tracks he struggled at, I don't see any tracks he truly struggled at. The exceptions are the new intermediates that sprang up from '97 thru '99 (Cali, Texas, Vegas, flat Homestead). But he wasn't lighting it up ANYWHERE over that span. Between his injuries and RCR falling behind, especially in the areas a team needs to be strong at to win at these places (horsepower, downforce). After his March 1996 win at Atlanta, his only other intermediate win over the rest of his career was his by inches win at Atlanta in 2000. RCR didn't start winning at horsepower tracks again until 2010 after their engine alliance was formed with Richie Gilmore, a guy hired as the head engine builder by (wait for it....) Dale Earnhardt at DEI. Conversely, Jeff has 3 wins at Cali, but watched teammate JJ win there 5 times. Jeff has 5 wins at Pocono, but him and JJ have 2 wins apiece there since he joined the tour. He and JJ both have 1 win at Texas (Jeff's worst track), and Jeff has one win at Vegas while JJ has 4. Throw in the other HMS driver's success at these tracks (Terry won at Texas and Pocono in the #5 car, KyBu won at Cali in his short stint there) and you see what Jeff had to work with. Also, those 4 tracks you mentioned are no joke. 9 wins at Darlington (the ultimate driver's track), 9 at Bristol (blacktop or concrete), 9 at Atlanta (2/3 of the track are turns), and 10 at Talladega (the most unpredictable track on the circuit, to win that much amid all the chaos shows a lot). Plus there is the fact that for most of his career there weren't a whole lot of tracks he raced at. All during his prime, they raced 29 times per year, mostly twice at each track with a few exceptions. He didn't have the variety to choose from. Consider all this, and he was extremely versatile. The numbers back it up. On the short tracks (which dominated the schedule for most of his career) he won 27 times, including multiple wins at all 5 short tracks he raced at (this includes two at the old Nashville Fairgrounds which was dropped after 1984). He also has multiple wins on both the old Richmond Fairgrounds half mile and the new 3/4 mile layout (the only driver that can say that). Of tracks 1 mile or more, but not more than than 1.366 miles, he has 16 wins. Yes, 9 were at Darlington, but that is a small sample of tracks (Darlington, Rockingham, Dover, Phoenix which didn't show up until 1988, and Loudon which didn't show up until 1993). Of the 1.5 to 2 miler intermediates, he has 18 wins. Of the flat 2.5 milers (Pocono twice a year, then Indy once a year from '94 onwards) he has just 3 wins, but again, didn't race a whole lot on those. And of course 13 wins on high banked 2.5 milers (twice a year at Daytona and Dega). And the one thing that makes people say "see, he isn't versatile" is his single road course win. But he certainly didn't suck on those. In 47 road course starts he had 20 Top 5s and 31 Top 10s. Give him traction control on those like Jeff had (by your own admission) and look out! And saying he just won at those tracks over and over again like it is nothing is erroneous. He won at Talladega twice unrestricted, then 8 times through various restrictor plate rules packages including his final dramatic win in the first race with the wild new (but ultimately the best) package with the roof fin and wicker. He won at Atlanta in 1980 in the old huge sedans, then won 5 times in the downsized cars with bias ply tires, then twice with radials on the old configuration, then once on the new dogleg layout. He won 3 in a row at Darlington from '89-'90, but that included the last Darlington race on bias plys, then the first race there on radials. And Bristol saw 2 wins on blacktop with the big cars, then 5 on the blacktop with the downsized car, then twice on the concrete. And that is why I'll put his career against anybody's. Not just 22 straight seasons of being relavent, but look at all the changes that happened. From those huge boxy mid 70s model cars with bias ply tires for his first 2 seasons (including his first championship) to the sleek aerodynamic bullets on radials in 2000, and everything in between, he was always a factor. Hell, just look at his best ten year stretch ('86-'95). They switched from bias plys to radials (including two tire wars), from the fastback boxy Monte Carlo, to the Aero Wars and the Lumina, to the new Monte Carlo in '95. None of that affected him. 298. John Royal posted: 03.21.2012 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is official, old Bristol will be back! www.jayski.com 299. FourNewTires posted: 03.21.2012 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HELL YES!!! Bristol is coming back baby! "Speedway Motorsports, Inc., CEO Bruton Smith said that he is moving ahead with plans to return Bristol Motor Speedway to its previous configuration. Speaking on SiriusXM NASCAR Radio's The Late Shift with Buddy Baker and Jim Noble, Smith said feedback from fans has been overwhelmingly in favor of changing the legendary speedway's layout. "I'd say it's about 75% from the race fans that they'd like to see us put it back the way it was five years ago," he said. Smith said he has already consulted with engineers about making the necessary changes. "It will absolutely still be concrete," he said, "but we will (redo) the profiling. We have on paper exactly the way the track was before we came in and redid it. We're going to have all the elevations, the ingress and egress as it was before we completely redid it. We will here again offer race fans (the track) the way it was. It's not a major change that we did," insisted Smith. "We took up all the old concrete that was breaking up and causing a lot of problems. We completely redid the speedway, and fans got the idea that it's not the same. I guess it's not the same, since they told us that, and the race fan is always right. When the race fans speak, you listen. And that's what we're doing now." The SMI owner said the changes will be made before the Aug. 25 Sprint Cup Series night race. "You have a good contractor, your plans, your blueprints and a million dollars, and you just go ahead and do it. I've got engineers working on this as we speak. I have not taken this up with NASCAR yet, but that's what we will do," Smith said. "Once we're ready, we'll do it. There will be a press announcement of exactly what we're doing. I want it to be exactly correct -- the way these fans perceive it -- and I want to see 165,000 fans scrambling for tickets the way they have in the past." 300. LordLowe posted: 03.21.2012 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF I have an question to ask did you attend the last race at North Wilkesboro and were you disappointed by the outcome in that your guy didn't win. 301. cjs3872 posted: 03.21.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, DSFF, the only reason I suspect that the #24 team was using traction control in the second half of the 1998 season has to do with the controversy after the race at Loudon. It not for that, I would never have suspected anything. So if that is true, and I only suspect it is, there is no proof that they were cheating, that would put a cloud over only what they did in the second half of the 1998 season, and wouldn't change a thing regarding the 1995-'97 seasons, or what Gordon's done since 1999, so I think in putting ALL of Gordon's accomplishments under a cloud, you're just clutching at air. And as for Terry Labonte winning at Pocono for Hendrick (which was a gift courtesy of Gordon), Labonte also won there for Junior Johnson. In fact, I don't think Gordon would have been nearly as successful as he was early in his career, if not for Terry Labonte, because I think Labonte taught Gordon a lot about how to get around some of the sport's trickiest tracks, which sped up the progess of Gordon's career a great deal. And for some reason, Earnhardt always struggled on flat tracks of a mile of longer in length more than any other style of track on the circuit, which would include tracks like Phoenix, Loudon, Pocono, and Indianapolis. I really didn't think he fared all that badly at Michigan when he was at, or near his best, and his overall record on the road courses was good, despite winning only once. But remember that at the tracks where Earnhardt had problems winning, like Michigan and Pocono, were also tracks where Earnhardt had horrendous crashes early in his career, so he was naturally gun-shy at those tracks for that reason for a number of years. He also struggled some at Atlanta early in his career for the same reason before shrugging that off to become Atlanta's winningest driver. And on another note, it appears that old Bristol will be back, along with the 20 cars per race that will be in the garage area due to wrecks, along with the 15+ cautions and 100-130 caution laps with half the time in the race spent behind the pace car. However, we won't really see the full effects until next spring's race there, because the race in August will be a conservative one, due to the drivers from fifth or sixth through about 15th not wanting to jeopardize their position in the Chase. 302. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.21.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First off, kudos to the NFL for cracking down on people who break the rules in a way NASCAR doesn't have the balls to do. LordLowe, for reasons I can't remember, I wasn't at the last Wilkesboro race. I was at almost every race there from the Spring '90 race until the end, but somehow wasn't at that one. I'm sure I was disappointed Dale didn't win. I always was. Not so much in him losing, but missing the personal satisfaction of watching him win. Nothing as a sports fan for me personally beat watching him win. Feels good watching Brad win now, but only 90% as much compared to Dale. Cjs, Dale was never gun shy behind the wheel. He was actually the exact opposite. It is what ultimately cost him his life. If he were gun shy, he would have embraced new safety innovations instead of shunning them. And the real Bristol will make a dramatic return this Summer (assuming SMI doesn't screw it up). They did the right thing. 303. cjs3872 posted: 03.21.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, anyone who suffers a bad accident at a particular track, like what happened to Dale at Atlanta (in 1976), Michigan (in 1979), or Pocono (in 1982) is going to be a bit gun-shy when he goes back to that particular track for a while. It's just human nature. Even at Talladega, where Dale had not one, but two horrific accidents, it took him a while to get over that first one (in 1996). But you are right about Earnhardt being cavalier about safety, but in his defense, in the race in which he was killed, I think there were fewer than five (out of 43) drivers in that race that had head-and-neck safety devices. And also, I wouldn't expect what you would call the "real" Bristol to make a return in August, even if undo the banking changes done to the track, because it wil be a conservative race, because the drivers in Chase contention have always viewed that race as one they had to be on the defense in, so they will run conservatively in that race. I thkn the effects would be seen in the preliminary races, where you'll probably see as much carnage as you would see in Daytona SpeedWeeks in a normal year (which this year definately wasn't). I think the first you'll see of the pre-2007 Bristol in the Cup series, with the usual 15+ cautions for 100-130 caution laps and up to 20 cars going to the garage area at various times due to wrecks would be next spring's race. In that race (the 2013 spring race), I'll be surprised if there are more than 16-18 healthy cars (out of 43) running at the finish. 304. Eric posted: 03.21.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Dale Earnhardt did not get at Michigan in 1979 as a cup Driver. He got hurt at Pocono in 1979 in a crash. He got injured in that race and missed 4 races with a broken collarbone. That meant he suffered 2 serious crashes at Pocono. 305. Eric posted: 03.21.2012 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to also mention that if you look at this site for 1979 cup races, you will see Dale did not crash in the only Michigan races he ran in cup that year. He finished 6th at Michigan matter of fact. The other thing was The 2nd Michigan races was Dale's 2nd of 4 cup races in 1979 he missed due to his broken Collarbone. David Pearson drover Dale's car for Talladega, Michigan, Bristol, and Darlington. 306. cjs3872 posted: 03.21.2012 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF and Eric, my mistake then. But even more reason for Earnhardt to be gun-shy at Pocono then. And also, does anyone other than me think that's it's more than a bit ironic that each of the four drivers that, to me rank above all the others, each had at least one horrendous crash at Pocono. Earnhardt had two (1979 and 1982, his infamous wreck with Tim Richmond when his brakes failed entering turn one), Richard Petty (in 1980, in which he suffered a broken neck) and Jeff Gordon (in 2006 at the sight of the Earnhardt/Richmond crash of 1982) had very serious crashes there, and of course Bobby Allison had his infamous crash that robbed him of the memory of his greatest day in racing, not to mention ending his career and nearly his life in 1988. I currently rank Petty, Allison, Gordon, and Earnhardt, in that order, as the top four drivers in the history of the sport, and each of them had at least one horrendous crash at Pocono. 307. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 03.21.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Rick Hendrick is a snake! Easily one of the most repulsive owners in all of sports. Everything he's accomplished needs to be called into question." Yeah, he's such a sly, dirty businessman. I wish there were more owners like Joe Gibbs, whose teams have been caught blatantly cheating more than Hendrick in recent history... now that's a role model of a team. I mean, C-pillar posts that are barely flared out since they arent measured by templates just crosses the line. Might as well kick him out of the sport. But teams who go as far as trying to cheat dyno tests because of how huge of an advantage they have, now they're fine... 308. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.21.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, then again, before they changed Bristol, that was before they had made changes to the Chase (premiums on wins, wild cards, etc.), plus I think some of the drivers did not know how to handle the chase in the first few years. I think now, we could see more beating and banging. 309. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.21.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pocono is simply a dangerous track. And I still say Dale was anything but gunshy. If so, he woould have stroked at tracks especially late in his career. He had two horrible crashes at Dega in '96 and '98. He followed those with a 3 out of 4 win streak there in '99 and '00. Also, if he were scared of Pocono, he wouldn't have been racing Tim that close for his second Pocono wreck. Darrell Waltrip late in his career is a classic example of driving scared. He hung back from the packs at plate tracks (something Dale never did) and left a lot of room between himself and the cars ahead of him on the other bigger tracks. Had Dale done that, he wouldn't have had a second consecutive hard wreck at Charlotte in the '98 Coke 600 one week after The Winston. He also would have switched to a full face helmet along with everyone else in 1991. 310. cjs3872 posted: 03.21.2012 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that wreck that Dale had at Pocono in 1982 was going to happen regardless, as that was a result of mechanical failure. Actually, if it hadn't been for Richmond's car, Earnhardt's crash that day might have been worse that it wound up being. And your comparing Earnhardt to Waltrip is like comparing an apple to a banana, because other than their success, those two had nothing in common on the track. Waltrip was a conservative driver for most of his career anyway, but when he had his crashes at Daytona in successive Julys (1990 when he broke his leg and 1991 when he flipped on the backstretch), then had his hard crash with Earnhardt in 1995 at the All-Star Race, his career was effectively over. I believe that if he hadn't had that crash with Earnhardt in the 1995 All-Star Race, that he would have won some races that year (he came close at Martinsville and Talladega as it was), and he may not have become the on-track joke that he became. Only when Earnhardt himself briefly recessitated Waltrip's career out of necessity for his own team in 1998 did Waltrip ever really show any flashes of the racing legend he truly was after his crash at Charlotte in 1995. And Waltrip never liked racing on packs of cars, anyway. He was asked before the Daytona 500 in both 1988 and 1989 (when he won) about racing with other cars, and he said that he didn't intend to race with anybody. Earnhardt, on the other hand, loved racing in packs, though he admitted otherwise, because he could use many of his greatest strengths to his advantage, the foremost of which was intimidation. He had three-quareters of the field beat before they ever took the green flag. But racing in packs provided Earnhardt to use another of his strengths as a driver. As Waltrip said many times, Earnhardt was a gambler on the track, and his gambles usually paid off, because nobody wanted to stand up to him. Those that did usually had a good chance to beat him, and the drivers Earnhardt knew he couldn't intimidate, beat him more often than not, because Earnhardt couldn't use his intimidating tactics, which is why I've said that the drivers that Earnhardt dominated were mentally the weakest group in the history of the sport, even weaker than today's drivers. One of the most critical moments in the history of the sport, and one that is often forgotten about, came at the end of the first segment of the 1995 Busch Clash when Earnhardt, after nearly losing it in turn two, tried to block Gordon, and Gordon wouldn't stand fot it, bullying his way past Earnhardt, something nobody else at that time would even try to do. That single moment may have been one of the most important in the history of the sport, because it told everyone that watched, and told Earnhardt himself, that Gordon couldn't be bullied on the track like everyone else that Earnhardt had bullied over the years. I think at that very instant, Earnhardt knew he would have his hands full with Gordon. Earnhardt always had trouble with mentally strong drivers, which was why he couldn't beat Petty, Allison, Yarborough, the Darrell Waltrip of the Junior Johnson-era of his career, and that crowd until they were well past their days of contending regularly. 311. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.21.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Um, Dale beat Petty, Allison, and Yarborough in 1980 as a second year driver with a third year team. And he beat the DW/Junior combo pretty badly in 1986 once RCR got up to speed. They thumped him from '81-'85 because of Dale's equipment. He played owner roulette in '81, had fast Bud Moore Fords in '82 and '83 but their motors were held together by chewing gum, fishing line, and bandaids. Then he had to help RCR get up to speed with the big boys in '84 and '85 in their 3rd and 4th seasons as a non independant team (big time sponsor, owner that could focus solely on owning). Yet another turd in the "Gordon is better than Earnhardt" punchbowl. Jeff never had to go through all that. By the time Dale finally got hooked up with a team and got to make an extended run with them (RCR in '84) he was 33 years old and already had 5 seasons of shuffling that mostly brought down his winning %. Jeff was 22 and has been in the same top notch ride ever since. 312. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.21.2012 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And yes I know DW was a lame duck by the end of '86, but by all accounts including those from Darrell and Junior, the shit didn't hit the fan there until midway through the season after Dale already had a pretty sizable lead in points. Same with Cale in '80. In fact, after Cale annouched he was cutting back, they seemed to catch fire and almost ran Dale down. The fact is the heart of a competitor will not allow you not to put forth maximum effort with a Cup title right in front of you. Just ask Darian Grubb. If anything, it makes you hungrier to prove something. 313. cjs3872 posted: 03.21.2012 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you talk about how Dale beat the legends of the 70s for the title in his second season in 1980, but 1980 was about as strange a year as far as driver and team stability goes as any year in the history of the sport. Of the sport's elite that year, only three of the sport's top drivers at the time drove in the 1981 Daytona 500 for the same team for which they drove in the 1980 Daytona 500. Earnhardt was one of them, and Richard Petty and Neil Bonnett were the other two. Petty, as mentioned in post #303, broke his neck in a crash at Pocono. Everyone else had annoumced that they were going to change teams for 1981. As you astutely brought up, Cale Yarborough had announced that he would leave Junior Johnson at the end of that season. But he was far from the only one that told his team in the second half of the 1980 season that he would be leaving. Many believed that Benny Parsons would actually be the one to claim the title in 1980, but he announced that he was going to leave M.C. Anderson's team while in serious contention for the title. Bobby Allison announced that he would leave Bud Moore's team. Darrell Waltrip did the same to DiGard Racing. And other elite teams, like Hoss Ellington's team, which had already gone through a driver change shortly after the Daytona 500 (from Donnie Allison to David Pearson), the Wood Brothers (for whom Neil Bonnett drove), and Harry Ranier's team (which had Buddy Baker as a driver), were not full-time teams in 1980. Given all that, there was almost no way, given how strong he was in 1980, that Dale Earnhardt was NOT going to win the championship, and yet he and his young team, which actually was sold to Rod Osterlund by Roger Penske after the 1977 season, still almost gave the championship away. Earnhardt was effectively handed the championship in 1980 by default. But there was even serious friction within that team, as well, as the events of 1981 proved. If ever there was a fluke championship prior to the inception of the Chase, Earnhardt's 1980 championship would be it, not because Earnhardt didn't earn it, because he did earn it, but because every other team that was running full-time, except for Richard Petty's was going to make a driver change, and Petty broke his neck at Pocono. In effect, you can say that all of Earnhardt's competition for the 1980 championship imploded, as Earnhardt's own team would do early in 1981. Remember that Osterlund's team won the championship in 1980, and then made a crew chief change after the second race of the following season, and not even the legendary Dale Inman could fix the ills there in the nearly two years he worked for that organization, first for Osterlund, and then for Jim Stacy when Stacy bought the team about a third of the way through the 1981 season. 314. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2012 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah it was a looney season, but Dale's team was far from stable itself. Crew chief and early mentor to Dale, Jake Elder, quit at the 1/3 mark of the season leaving the top post to 20 year old Doug Richert (!!!). Plus they only had a small sponsorship deal. And in 30 races he blew up 4 times and wrecked in the World 600. So he wasn't exactly Matt Kenseth in 2003. He was hit with a lot of looneyness too. And again, the lame duck factor is overrated. As Darian Grubb proved, if you have the heart of a champion, and Cale, Benny, and Bobby are all champions, you give it your all when the title is in sight. Besides, I can think of 10 flukier championships off the top of my head in the modern era alone. Hell, Dale's 1991 title was way flukier from a "the competition is in shambles" standpoint. His stats were very much in line with a champion. 5 wins, 1000+ laps led, lots of Top 5s. And by the way, it was his second season in Cup (in case I haven't mentioned that yet). 315. cjs3872 posted: 03.22.2012 - 1:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well actually DSFF, I mentioned every one of those things in my last post about all the drivers moving for 1981, and it wasn't just Yarborough, Parsons, and Allison, but Waltrip, Baker, and Pearson. As I said, virtually every big name driver that was running against Earnhardt for the championship in 1980, with the exception of Richard Petty, moved for 1981. It was even said that when Parsons told his team was moving to Bud Moore's team, that M.C. Anderson's team was crushed by that decision, thereby ending his title hopes. And while I gave a general comment about the problems that Rod Osterlund's team was having, I did not mention the crew chief change in 1980, even though I did mention the change two races into the 1981 season. I also mentioned that Earnhardt earned that championship, but also, given what his competition did to themselves, that there was no was he was not going to win the championship, and his team almost blew it anyway. Like 1992, the 1980 championship battle was one that nobody wanted to win. None of Earnhardt's competitors won the 1980 championship for the same reason that many feel that Carl Edwards did not win the title last year, and that was the cloud of who he/they would be driving for the following year. I think that, more than anything else is what got Edwards behind the second half of the season last year, and it cost them. But I still disagree with you about 1991. There were quite a number of very good teams that year, as that year and the next marked the height of parity in the sport. There were a lot of really good teams, but no dominant ones, but the title was won by the best that year. As for comment about Earnhardt blowing up four times in his 1980 championship season. That's probably why he won the championship, because he blew "only" four times in an era when blown engines were commonplace everywhere. And a lot of drivers crashed in that 1980 World 600 on a repaved track (which caused many blowouts) made even more treacherous by rain, including his championship rival Cale Yarborough, as well as Neil Bonnett and a bunch of others. In fact, until the 2005 levigation fiasco, that 1980 World 600 set a track record with 14 cautions, and the 113 laps (169.5 miles) of caution in that race is still a record that hopefully lasts forever. 316. LordLowe posted: 03.22.2012 - 2:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS I have to agree with you about Gordon he is going to have a very rough 2012 for all the reasons that you have pointed out also I Think that Gordon's head is not in the game for whatever reason I believe it has been that way since he lost the Championship to Johnson back in 2007. I think he needs to have his personality rebooted to the Gordon of old. 317. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2012 - 5:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again, all that is well and good, but he was still a second year driver with a third year which was outrageously young (they may have bought the team from Penske, but that was far from a Penske team) with an early season crew chief bailout and an owner who was in it just as a hobby, as evidenced by his dropping of the team halfway through the next season. The looney bug that was going around that season bit them as hard as anyone. And yes, 1991 was part of the most loaded stretch of good talent in their primes and good teams in their primes. Its an era that started with a lot of new money coming in (Ranier, DiGard, Osterlund, Hagan, Hendrick, Beadle, Melling, Roush, etc) which opened lots of opportunities for new drivers to break through. To me '84 thru '94 was NASCAR's most loaded era. 1995 brought the new Monte Carlo and the era of downforce and engineering which priced a lot of people out of the sport. But Good Lord, in 1991, they all forgot how to put together more than one good month at a time. The fact that the points "battle" came down to Earnhardt and Rudd who both gagged badly down the stretch, says it all. Yes, Dale was the best that year. Because SOMEBODY had to win the title. 318. myothercarisanM535i posted: 03.22.2012 - 6:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry to bring this back up, but with the whole New Bristol vs. Old Bristol and SMI returning the track to it's previous configuration... Why doesn't Bruton Smith simply build another Bristol? Have one with the old layout and one with the new. Is it really as crazy as it sounds? I mean, the guy is planning to build an exact copy of the bloody NURBURGRING in Nevada. So if he can pull that off, I'm sure he can put together another half-mile bullring... 319. Anonymous posted: 03.22.2012 - 9:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't believe people are trying to diminish Earnhardt's 1980 Championship as only a second year (full time) driver. I don't really care how it happened. It remains one of the most impressive accomplishments this sport has ever seen as nobody has ever benn able to match it before or since. 320. Anonymous posted: 03.22.2012 - 9:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ post # 319 I have always wondered this. Most fans simply can't get enough of old Bristol. With all of the new tracks they've built in Chicogo, Texas, Cali, Kansas, Homestead/Miami, Vegas, and Kentucky, you would think that just one of them would have been smart enough to build another Bristol instead of water down the schedule a little more with another cookie cutter facility. I know the Statan Island track fell through a few years back but there has to be a small piece of land somewhere in either western Long Island, northeast New Jersey, lower Hudson valley New York, or in southwestern Connecticut where Bristol north can be created. It would be such a smash hit even Nascar wouldn't know what to do with all the money! 321. Anonymous posted: 03.22.2012 - 9:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oops, I guess that should have been @ post #318. 322. cjs3872 posted: 03.22.2012 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you're right about the Osterlund team being far from what we perceive as a Penske tean today, but remember the Penske was not very successful in his first foray into NASCAR, either. Penske only won five races in seven seasons in his first attempt in NASCAR, running AMC Matadors for four of those seasons. But also consider that, while Osterlund bought the team from Penske, he sold a lot of the equipment to George Elliott, which started Bill's career, because Osterlund ran GM cars, where Penske ran Mercurys in 1976-'77. And Anonymous (#319), it was amazing that Earnhardt won the title in his second year and his team's third, but it was made much easier by the implosion of his competition in the second half of the season that year. That championship may also have helped drive Osterlund out of the sport, because he had climbed to the top so quickly, much like winning the Indianapolis 500 in his first try in 1966 drove John Mecom out of the sport by 1968, because he had nothing more to prove. And could the fact that nobody could put up a prolonged stretch of superiority in 1991 have something to do with the fact that there were so many good cars and teams, that the high level of competition made a prolonged period of dominance impossible that year, because I think it did. 323. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me, Dale's 1980 Winston Cup championship is either the 2nd or 3rd biggest "overachievement" title in the modern era depending on how you feel about Benny's '73 title (I have his and Dale's '80 title tied for 2nd). Of course Alan Kulwicki's 1992 Winston Cup is the standard that will most likely stand forever. 20 years later, we are STILL having trouble putting that one into context. And here is a question to you cjs: How much of the turmoil that broke loose in the middle of 1980 came as a direct reaction to Dale? He entered the sport the previous year as somebody to watch out for in the future. As in the fairly distant future. Back then it took drivers years to establish themselves as top competitors. Even "brash youngster" Darrell Waltrip (well into his 30s by this time) took quite a bit of time to become a guy to beat week in and week out. Even after hooking up with big money DiGard in mid '75 then big money (for the time) sponsor Gatorade in '76, it took him until 1979 to become championship caliber, which he epically gagged away to Richard Petty. It took time, and the old guard certainly wasn't worried about these young guys suddenly jumping up and battling them for the Cup in the near future. They could stay at their teams, tinker with and perfect them, and be ready when they were finally ready to contend with them. This formula was perfected by Cale Yarborough at Junior Johnson's from '73-'75. Dale certainly grabbed their attention in 1979. It isn't just that he won a race and finished 7th in points despite missing 4 races. He was running with the leaders in the Daytona 500 for the first 150 laps. He was battling tooth and nail with King Richard Petty for 2nd in the closing laps after 600 long, hot, grueling miles in Charlotte just behind Darrell. He finished second at Atlanta. It is one thing for a youngster to be competitive on the short tracks they are comfortable with from their local bullrings, but to win a championship, you have to be good on the big tracks too. Those took time. But Dale showed ability there right off the bat. Then 1980 started. Dale finishes 2nd in January at Riverside (a real stock car newbie killer). Then he wins the non points Busch Clash by a slingshot pass on the outside, learning lessons from the finish of the previous year's Daytona 500 when Cale slingshot low and got run into the grass. Uh oh. His next 5 points race finishes looked like this: 4th, 5th, 3rd, 1st, and 1st. Oh shit! Now of course Cale decided to cut back to a limited schedule for unrelated reasons which would have caused a few dominoes to fall. But nothing like what we saw. Suddenly Darrell Waltrip is paying $325,000 to get out of his DiGard contract (to put that in historical perspective, his purse earings from his 7 win '79 season were $557,012). Suddenly Junior Johnson actually wants Darrell, deciding his antics would be worth putting up with due to his obvious talents (JGR would make a similar decision in '08). Suddenly Bobby Allison wants out of Bud Moore's fast but unreliable Fords because he can feel his championship window closing. Suddenly the MC Anderson and BP alliance turns sour with crew chief David Ifft praising Dale's driving style effusively publically. He is the one who made the infamous 1980 quote "I'll tell you what makes that (#2)car go fast, Dale Earnhardt makes it go fast. He's been making up for their lack of horsepower by driving into the corners deeper than anyone". Translation: "I wish my driver tried that hard". Suddenly stock car legend David Pearson and his famous hold back driving style falls way out of demand (Hoss dumped him for '81 for fellow leadfoot Buddy Baker). Everything was ok in the beginning of the season, things didn't blow up until mid season. So the question is this: How much of that team swapping came because teams and drivers realized Dale was ushering in a new era. One in which green drivers, inexperienced drivers were willing to cut in line so to speak, rub fenders with the establishment, and most importantly start beating them for supremacy almost immediately. Did he cause them to look at their current situations and realize they needed to do something before getting left behind? Drivers aren't stupid (for the most part). They know talent and potential when they see it. Why have recent drivers been so reverent towards Kyle from the moment he hit the scene despite his awful personality, and publically less than impressed with "Sliced Bread" Joey Logano? They knew what was coming with Dale. Rod would sign him to a long tern extension (happened that summer) knowing the gold mine he was sitting on. He would continue to build the team leading to an Earnahrdt/Osterlund dynasty. That part didn't happen cause Rod didn't know shit about racing. Hell, hiring Dale in the first place was a big mistake at the time according to sport wide thinking. You let guys like Dale tear up smaller team's stuff then hire him after a few years of learning. But Dale's talent and desire trumped all that and made it work. He made a mistake look like a stroke of genius. Actually this happened again in 1999. JGR made a bad move by putting Tony Stewart in a full time, big money, top notch ride in Winston Cup despite VERY limited stock car experience. But Tony's talent made it work. And he was given that chance due to another mistake that turned to be genius. Rick Hendrick put 21 year old Jeff Gordon in his big money ride in 1993. Only 21, wouldn't be 22 until August? That fails 999 times out of 1000 in that era. But Jeff is one in a million. As a result of his 1995 Winston Cup stunner, every owner wanted an outrageously young driver with potential (like Tony). Unfortunately for many others, this killed their careers. The point is drivers and teams pay attention and when a new formula suddenly works, as Dale's was in the beginning of 1980, drivers and teams scramble to keep up. So would that 1980 madness have happened were it not for Dale turning conventional wisdom on its head and making it clear to people like Bobby, Junior, Darrell, MC, and others that they didn't have as much time as they thought they had? 324. LordLowe posted: 03.22.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF Speaking of madness what would the reaction be like If Hendrick fired Dale Jr 325. cjs3872 posted: 03.22.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, what happened in 1980 was that Cale decided to leave Junior Johnson's tean to cut back on his schedule. That opened up the #11 car for 1981. Darrell Waltrip had a falling out with DiGard, but might not have left if not for Yarborough, who told Waltrip before he told anyone else that he was leaving Junior's team and the Junior wanted him for 1981. That opened up the DiGard #88, though the driver they chose, Ricky Rudd, was a real shocker. Then the second wave of prominent driver moves began. When Parsons told the M.C. Anderson team that he was leaving, that opened up the #27 car for Yarborough, and Bobby Allison decided to leave Bud Moore's team, opening that car up for Parsons. Hary Ranier decided that he wanted to run the full season in 1981, and wanted a championship, so released Baker and hired Allison. Hoss Ellington's team also made a driver change, replacing David Pearson with Buddy Baker. And let's not forget another reason for all the madness in 1980, and that was that a brand new downsized car was coming in 1981, and nobody knew what that was going to do to the competitve balance. So there were a lot of different things in play that changed the landscape of the sport for 1981. Now, one reason Dale Earnhardt did so well at Riverside early in his career, finishing second in the 1980 season opener, was that he caught a huge break when the legendary Dan Gurney, possibly the greatest road racer that America has ever produced, made a one-race comeback as Dale Earnhardt's teammate for that 1980 season opener, and doubtlessly taught Earnhardt how to get around a track he won five times at, as well as how to get around tracks with both left and right turns. And as for your comment about Earnhardt doing so well on the intermediates in Rod Osterlund's car, let's not forget how well Dave Marcis ran in that car in 1978, nearly winning on more than one occasion, including being barely nipped by Richard Petty for second place in the controvesrial fall race at Atlanta in 1978. (That was originally thought to have been for the win, but an alert observation by alerted NASCAR officials to the fact that Donnie Allison had not been credited with one lap, and was given what was to be his final victory hours after the raace took place.) Osterlund knew that a driver as aggressive as Earnhardt could turn those near-misses into wins, which he evenutally did. Marcis also led Bobby Allison across the finish line in the Daytona 500 in 1978 when he finished a career-best-equaling sixth, and was a major factor in the battle for the lead after that final restart until Buddy Baker's engine blew with just five laps remaining. Marcis just wasn't the kind of driver that could win races, but his ability to keep a car running was essential to that team's growth. 326. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2012 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A new car AND a new regime were on the horizon as the competition could the start of a Dale Earnhardt dynasty. It turned out to be a bit of a false start. Though he won his first Winston Cup, he had to spend the next 5 years in the proverbial wilderness (something Gordon has never had to through). THEN the Earnhardt dynasty began, right at the height of NASCAR's most loaded era. Can't help but wonder what would happen if Osterlund came clean to Dale in 1980 about wanting to get out, and then Dale getting picked up by Junior for '81 onwards. If Dale did what he did during the stacked late 80's and early 90's, imagine him in a Junior Johnson car during the early 80's when onnly a few teams truly had it figured out. Then GM only has to split between Junior and Hendrick instead of the three way split with RCR that sent Junior to Ford which has its attention taken away by Roush and Yates. Wow, that is a lot of dominoes falling in the other direction over a fifteen year period. Dale just needed Osterlund to be wired like Rick Hendrick (minus the cheating and dirty business). Love the sport, pour his resources into it, and use his big pockets to build an organization around Dale the way Richard did with much smaller pockets and Rick did with Gordon with his huge pockets. Then they wouldn't have fallen behind with the new downsized car, used Rod's money plus the new Wrangler money, maybe stolen Waddell Wilson to build engines. Then Dale picks up more championships from '81-'85 and stays on the cutting edge in the mid 90's when they switch to the new Monte Carlo, winning one or two more titles. Yes, 10 titles is not far fetched at all. 327. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2012 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Btw, Bruton is now claiming he never even knew they were going to progressively bank the track. Really? We are supposed to believe that? Can't he ever just admit he is wrong? 328. cjs3872 posted: 03.22.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I think we're all underestimating something about Earnhardt and his early career, especially where his championship in 1980 is concerned. That is that Earnhardt was not ready to be champion at that time, and was not ready for all the things that went with it. In fact, Earnhardt said many years later that winning the championship in 1980 was the worst thing that ever happened to (or for) him in his racing career, because he was not ready to be champion. Earnhardt was also very immature back then (which may be why Jim Stacy wanted no part of him), and did not have to go through the trials and tribulations that most of the top drivers of that era had to got through. So when he won it six years later in 1986, he had a much better understanding of what it took to be a real champion, as well as the hard road he had to travel to get back to the top, something he never forgot. In fact, late in his career, Earnhardt was leery about some of the younger drivers taking over so quickly for that very reason, because he thought that some of them would have attitude problems, because they hadn't come up the hard way, and boy was he ever right about that. In some respects, it's a good thing that Earnhardt's not around, because he'd be upset and embarrassed at quite a bit of what the sport he carried for a decade has become. 329. martin-n-rusty posted: 03.22.2012 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFan, sometimes, I think Burton is totally senile. Seeing what has gone on in Charlotte, we could see Humpty Wheeler was the brains there, and not Burton 330. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2012 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, it would be interesting to see the reaction of Junior Nation if Rick fired him. First off you have to consider that most of his fans have never been very comfortable with the fact June drives for HMS. They never got over them as the enemy. They see it as Jeff and Jimmie's organization (for once JRNation actually has something right). HMS has also taken a lot of the heat from JRN for his dismal performances since he joined them. But instead of blaming HMS for not controling him better and telling him to shape up mentally or hit the road, they blame them cause they think he is getting bad equipment. Not only is this erroneous, HMS' "bad" equipment is still better than 95% of the field. Just ask Brad K in 2009. They would be furious at Rick for having the gumption to actually fire him even though Rick has let go of drivers who weren't doing nearly as bad as June (Nemechek comes to mind). But there would be a sense of relief too. They could then argue over where he should go, ultimately deciding he should go to RCR and bring back the black #3 car to Cup despite June saying repeatedly he will never do that and no sane Big E fan wanting to see that. Then ultimately being disapppointed by his choice which would not involve the black #3. Then they would have somebody else to blame and the cycle would start all over. 331. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2012 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting take on Winston Cup success coming too soon. Although I will say he paid the hell out of some dues in getting to the big stage. It was a struggle to get off dirt. He went way into debt and had a terrible lifestyle making it work. He threw away two marraiges and any chance of having a close relationship with his 3 oldest kids (cover your ears JR Nation, but Big E and Junebug had a very distant relationship until June started having success in NASCAR). But yeah, I'm sure after 1980 he thought "damn, this is easy". He got humbled over the next 5 years. And for the record, JD Stacy wanted nothing to do with Dale cause he was a damn idiot. It wasn't just Dale, after buying the team, he dismantled it. They were only the defending Winston Cup champs. And although they hadn't won, they were 4th in points at the time and were coming off a few Top 5s iincluding two runnerups. Was he immature at the time? Relatively speaking he didn't have the experience. But by that point he was in a serious relationship with Teresa who really settled him down and gave him a solid foundation in life. Plus he had just gained custody of Kelley and Dale Jr which also had to have a settling effect even though (cover your ears again JR Nation) he didn't interact with them much. He definitely still had a learning curve to go through, which he credited Bud Moore with helping him through. 332. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2012 - 12:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And if Hendrick Motorsports had the courage to release Earnhardt, I also think that the camaraderie among the drivers at Hendrick would vastly improve. Think about it, since Dale, Jr. arrived there, Jeff Gordon has had only one multiple win season (last year). He had won at least three races in every year but one (2006) prior to Dale, Jr.'s arrival, dating all the way back to 1995. And hendrick's flagship car, the #5, has won races in just one season since Dale, Jr.'s arrival (2009, when Mark Martin won five times). But since Dale, Jr. arrived there, none of Hendrick's cars, except the #48, have been consistently good, and I think it's the focus that Hendrick takes from the #5 and #24 teams on an alternate year basis to help Dale, Jr. But if Dale, Jr. were to leave, that would take an enormous amount of pressure off Hendrick, and that fact, along with the fact that, since Dale, Jr. got to HMS, the camaraderie between the drivers and teams there, which was a Hendrick strong point for the decade plus prior to Dale, Jr.'s arrival, has been virtually non-existent, something that came to a head last Sunday at Bristol with the incident between Dale, Jr. and Jeff Gordon. In other words, Dale, Jr. has, in my mind, been the cause of most of the in-team friction at Hendrick Motorsports. And am I the only one that noticed that last year, when Dale, Jr. joined what wasthe 24/48 shop, making it the 48/88 shop, that Jimmie Johnson had the worst year of his career, and was not at least tied for the team lead in wins for the first time in his Cup career. 333. LordLowe posted: 03.23.2012 - 12:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I were in charge of hendrick motorsports I would have fired that Utter Imbecile to his face in front of a TV camera with millions of people watching. 334. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2012 - 2:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I noticed that too cjs. He has been a black hole at HMS. And his refusal to do anything to improve is beyond disgusting. Once upon a time, American sports fans cheered for the guy who cared or seemed to care more than the others. Pete Rose sprinted to 1st after a walk and dove headfirst when sliding. America loved him. Cal Ripken just wouldn't take a game off and started 319,416 straight games (approximate). Sports fans everywhere held him as the standard. Michael Jordan was quite simply somebody who would rather jump off a building than lose. Most popular athlete ever. Ronnie Lott lost a finger to avoid missing a game. Dedication defined. Dale Earnhardt did whatever it took to win no matter how many feelings he had to hurt on the way to victory lane. People like me lived vicariously through him because he represented what we wanted to be. What the hell happened? NASCAR's most popular driver by far is the ultimate underachiever. LeBron James is the face of basketball and his #1 goal is to be a global icon, nothing about winning. Other underachievers like Vince Carter, Tracy McGrady, and Allen Iverson are praised effusively. What is wrong with us? 335. Bronco posted: 03.23.2012 - 4:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And am I the only one that noticed that last year, when Dale, Jr. joined what wasthe 24/48 shop, making it the 48/88 shop, that Jimmie Johnson had the worst year of his career, and was not at least tied for the team lead in wins for the first time in his Cup career." LOL yes, it's 100% Dale Jr's fault that JJ came up way short of title #6. After all, it's not like JJ crashed on his own at Charlotte, damaged his car at Loudon by running into the #18, hung at the back for way too long at Talladega, finished 2nd to Kurt Busch and Tony Stewart at his hugely successful tracks of Dover and Martinsville, spun on his own at Texas or had the engine issue at Homestead. Right? "Not only is this erroneous, HMS' "bad" equipment is still better than 95% of the field." Haha, is that why Mark Martin finished 22nd in points driving for the bad team? The same Mark Martin that two years earlier nearly won a championship? Also, 22nd in points is better than 95% of the field? We must have pretty big fields then! 336. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2012 - 6:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Typical Bronco. People are here having great debates in a mature fashion and he shows up with his schoolyard insults and sarcasm. 337. JG24FanForever posted: 03.23.2012 - 7:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I found a list of the greatest 20 Cup drivers from Foxsports and couldn't believe Kyle Busch is 13th!? http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/lists/Ranking-the-20-greatest-NASCAR-drivers-of-all-time#photo-title=Kyle%20Busch&photo=30702640 This is the list 1. Richard Petty 2. David Pearson 3. Dale Earnhardt 4. Jimmie Johnson 5. Jeff Gordon 6. Cale Yarborough 7. Darrell Waltrip 8. Bobby Allison 9. Lee Petty 10. Tony Stewart 11. Junior Johnson 12. Ned Jarrett 13. Kyle Busch 14. Tim Flock 15. Terry Labonte 16. Fireball Roberts 17. Bill Elliott 18. Rusty Wallace 19. Mark Martin 20. Harry Gant 338. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2012 - 9:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That list, JG24FanForever, shows that FOX, much like SPEED when they did their list of the 43 "greatest" Daytona 500 drivers, knows very little about the sport and it's history, instead choosing to focus on the more modern drivers, with few exceptions. Here's my list of the top 20 drivers of all-time. 1. Richard Petty 2. Bobby Allison 3. Jeff Gordon 4. Dale Earnhardt, Sr. 5. Cale Yarborough 6. Darrell Waltrip 7. David Pearson 8. Junior Johnson 9. Buck Baker 10. Herb Thomas 11. Tony Stewart 12. Tim Flock 13. Lee Petty 14. Jimmie Johnson 15. Fireball Roberts 16. Rusty Wallace 17. Bill Elliott 18. Mark Martin 19. Ned Jarrett 20. Bobby Isaac And I list in the Word document I created listing the all-time greatest drivers in history their accomplishments, including wins, poles, top 5 finishes, top 10 finishes, starts, laps led (which I think is important, because it shows dominance), and important race victories. So my listing, which I originally did about four years ago and changes within the top 20 have been made since then, though nobody has entered or exited the top 20 since I first made the list. So when I made my list, I not only wanted to make a list, but wanted to back up my thought with actual facts and statistics. 339. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch doesn't belong in the Top 50. Nobody has left more on the racetrack than Kyle. What he has accomplished is nowhere close to what he is capable of. But he has allowed his own attitude to derail him. With his talent and equipment, he should be putting up Gordon numbers. Plus he hasn't even sniffed a championship yet because he folds under the ultimate pressure of points battles. Possibly the worst "closer" I have ever seen. Nobody has more races where they lead tons of laps but don't win. Nobody has more seasons where they are among the leaders in win total but don't even sniff a title. My Top 5: Earnhardt, Petty, Bobby, Pearson, Cale (A 3rd clas HOFer? Yes, the NASCAR HOF is a damn joke). My reasons for Dale are the following: Tied for the most championships. Won a race in 20 of 22 seasons (Top 10 in points in his two winless years), Top 10 in points in 20 of 22 seasons (won a race in those 12th place seasons). Dominated NASCAR's most loaded ten year period as far as teams and drivers in their primes ('84-'94). Never had dominant equipment (REALLY good, but he was never light years from the competition). Hands down the greatest closer in NASCAR history. That last point is what really seperates Dale. The ability to perfrom at your highest level when you absolutely have to, when the pressure is the highest. Looking at Dale's career, he has 7 championships, but only once did he have a real shot at the title in the last few races and not win it, and that was 1989. His other two runner ups in points ('95, '00) were distant to a runaway champ (don't let 1995's final numbers fool you, Jeff had a 309 point lead with just 6 races left). So 8 times in his career in his career he was in the hunt in the very end for the Cup, and he won 7 of them. Damn good. Compare that to Gordon who has had 3 "woulda coulda shoulda's" ('96, '04, '07). That closer point is the reason why I laugh in somebody's face if they say Peyton Manning is better than Joe Montana was. When the big prize is sitting right there for, you have to be able to grab it more often than not. That is what really puts Dale over the top for #1 in my book. And it keeps Bobby from being #2 despite a staggering 85 wins with something like 46 different owners (approximate). Dale gets a ton of points for always having such a great career despite lots of turmoil initially. Hell, Bobby would have given his left nut to have Dale's career path in Cup (and both to have Gordon's). He gets a bit of a pass because team harmony issues hurt him in a few of those close calls (Junior in '72, Ranier in '81). He had awful luck with teams. Even his championship team (DiGard in '83) was coming apart at the seams. 340. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, doesn't the fact that Allison had more wins that Earnhardt, Yaroborough, and depending on who you ask, either the same number or one more win than Darrell Waltrip had, despite all the turmoil, and with those wins coming on a greater variety of tracks, make his career greater than Earnhardt's, because I think it does, even though Allison only won the championship once (against mentally tough competition), while Earnhardt won seven championships against what was the weakest competition from a mental standpoint in the history of the sport. And there's another factor that made Allison's career greater in my opinion, and that was the fact that he won more crown jewel races (13) than anyone else did unilt Jeff Gordon's arrival. For instance, Allison won the Coca-Cola 600 three times with three different teams. In fact, he never won the same crown jewel race twice with the same team. His four Southern 500 wins are truly remarkable in this regard. His four wins in that event were in 1971 in a Mercury for Holman-Moody, 1972 in a Chevrolet for Richard Howard and Junior Johnson, 1983 in a Buick for DiGard Racing, and most remarkable of all, his third Southern 500 win came in 1975 in, of all things, an AMC Matador for Penske Racing. And he nearly won it again in 1986 in a Buick for the Stavola Brothers (he finished second to Tim Richmond). His three Daytona 500 wins also came with three different teams, Bud Moore Engineering (1978), DiGard (1982), and the Stavola Borthers (their final win in 1988). Before Jeff Gordon came along and blew Allison's record of 13 wins in the sport's biggest events away, Allison was the sport's greatest when the money was on the table, including Richard Petty, and let's not forget that one of his greatest wins came at Earnhardt's expense in the 1986 Winston 500 at Talladega at a time when he was thought to be like Richard Petty and Cale Yarborough, a driver no longer able to compete for wins. The reason I place Allison #2 behind only Petty (for the moment) was not only Allison's incredible versatility, but also his ability to get it done when the eyes of the nation were on him. That's why I have Allison and Gordon neck-and-neck for the #2 spot on my list. When Gordon passes Allison in career wins, which he would do with his next victory (if he ever wins again), I'll also move him ahead of Allison on my all-time NASCAR driver listing. 341. LordLowe posted: 03.23.2012 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS: The prospects of Gordon winning again don't look that good right now. I don't think his head is in the game. I believe that he has lost the Fire that has made him a Great Driver. 342. ch posted: 03.23.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So the 19 is Tri-Star Motorsports, nice to see them continuing to expand! 343. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ch, it's almost certainly a start-and-park. However, this is far from Tri-Star Motorsports' first foray into the Cup series. In fact, they won the pole for the 1994 Daytona 500 (and two other races in 1994) with Loy Allen, Jr. in that same #19 car. Tri-Star Motorsports, which actually began back in 1990 when Hut Stricklin drove for them swhen they carried the #68 (in fact, it was Stricklin in the Tri-Star #68 that spun at the end of the first qualifying race that year that began the incident that cost Ken Schrader his pole starting position for the Daytona 500, though Schrader's car owner Rick Hendrick gave him one of his other team's back-up cars to run in the Daytona 500 that year). In 1991, Bobby Hamilton won the Rookie of the Year driving Tri-Star's #68 car, now sponsored by Country Time Lemonade. Other drivers for Tri-Star in the 90s included Greg Sacks, Allen, and Phil Parsons. 344. Spen posted: 03.23.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The same Mark Martin that two years earlier nearly won a championship?" The same Mark Martin who's well past fifty, and wrecked himself in nearly half the races last year, yes. 345. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2012 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, the same thing that happened in Mark Martin's second season with Alan Gustafson is happening in Gordon's second season with him, and that's a dramatic fall-off in performance, caused in part by the increased emphasis in the shopmate of the driver that Gustafson's the crew chief for, which in turn has decreased the emphasis for the driver that Gustafson's the crew chief for. In 2010, it was Dale, Jr., who was the shopmate of Martin, and now it's Kasey Kahne, who's the shopmate of Gordon. But I also warned that Gustafson has never had two good seasons in a row. All of that is coming home to roost. Again. Gustafson seems to be a good short-term fix, as was proven with Martin in 2009 and Gordon last year, but not a good long-term solution. That was proven with Martin, though Martin's age was a factor in 2010. And it's being proven again with Gordon. The real red flag where Gordon's concerned is that he's qualifying back in the pack, simply because his cars are just flat slow, the slowest of all the Hendrick cars. And Gordon's one of the greatest qualifiers in history with 70 poles, tied for third all-time with Cale Yarborough (yes, I do include Yarborough's qualifying race pole in 1970 when he won the pole for the Daytona 500 that year), and now he's not even competitve with his teammates. He has not lost his fire, his cars have lost their speed, and the blame for that goes with the crew chief, who is again proving that he can't string two good years back-to-back, and the Hendrick organization for decreasing the emphasis in the #24 team. Another factor in Gordon's decline since late last year has to do with the fallout from that race at Richmond, which he had in the bag, and got it taken from him by the low-balling tactics of Richard Childress Racing. Gordon and his team have simply not been the same since, and I think they're still mentally struggling from the aftermath of that race, no matter what anyone else says. 346. Spen posted: 03.23.2012 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: "Nobody has more races where they lead tons of laps but don't win." What about Buddy Baker? Yeah, he drove in a far less reliable era, but that doesn't change the fact that he was simply incapable of taking care of equiptment. His list of thrown away wins probably eclipses Shrub's. "Kyle Busch doesn't belong in the Top 50." Really? Yes, 23 wins is far below what he's capable of, but it's still a good number. I don't have a comprehensive list below the top 20, but as it stands, I'd say he's somewhere in the 40-45 range for sure. Who would you have in the top fifty over him? 347. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2012 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale had to beat mentally feeble competition? Cale Yarborough? The same Darrell Waltrip who psyched out Bobby Allison two years in a row? The Fearless Tim Richmond? Rusty Wallace who thrived off going toe to toe with The Intimidator? Ricky Rudd who blatently dumped him in1989 and cost him the Winston Cup? Davey Allison who is one of only two sons of NASCAR legends to become a legend themselves (The King being the other) which shows a ton of mental stability? Bill Elliott and Mark Martin who, despite being pushovers, never beat themselves or let disappointments derail them? You are thinking of Jimmie Johnson who has feasted on people who throw in the towel when things go off track (this includes Tony Stewart most of the time). As far as crown jewels, first off you have to realize that for the first 6 years of his career they were dominated by part timers who ran partial schedules before that was a disadvantage and could put more effort into them cause they weren't worried about points. The first 6 Daytona 500s he ran in were won by part timers ('80, '83, '84). Then in 1985 Bill won 3 of the 4 while blew up in all of them. Then 1986 happened, and over the next 9 seasons he won 3 World 600s, 3 Southern 500s, 2 Winston 500s (a big deal at the time due to the sponsor), and The Winston 3 times. And we can't overlook his awful luck in the Daytona 500. His performance in that race cannot be discounted. He could have easily had 4 Daytona 500s over that span only to be done in by rotten luck. He lost '86 cause of a dumb call not to pit for gas by Richard (had he listened to Kirk they would have won) plus a cheated up HMS car he had to race. In 1989 as well as 1993 he got beat by cheated up HMS motors and/or gas tanks. And 1990 speaks for itself. Besides, the crown jewels in the modern era don't mean as much towards a driver's legacy. It is all about the championship. Michael Waltrip has as many Daytona 500s as Earnhardt, Pearson, Rusty, Terry, Smoke, and Mark COMBINED. 348. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2012 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, Earnhardt never had to go against the Darrell Waltrip that Allison and even Bill Elliott had to go up against, partially because Earnhardt himself was the one that destroyed Waltrip's chance to win any more titles in the spring race at Richmond in 1986. That incident shrunk Waltrip immensely. Earnhardt NEVER had to battle either Tim Richmond or Davey Allison for a championship, so let's leave those two out of the dicsussion. Ricky Rudd was never strong enough mentally to defeat Earnhardt for the championship, and Earnhardt had everyone outclassed in 1987 (due in great deal to Tim Richmond's llnes) and 1990. Wallace beat out Earnhardt for the 1989 championship and likely would have in 1993 if Earnhardt hadn't caused Rusty's crash at Talladega (though Rusty partially blamed himself for that accident, due to blocking Earnhardt at the finish), which broke Rusty's wrist, which in turn caused Rusty to make errors in the upcoming races that he wouldn't have made otherwise, along with take his chance to win at Sonoma away. Earnhardt was also gift-wrapped the 1994 championship due to Ernie Irvan's practice crash at Michigan that nearly killed him. Now as for Earnhardt in the crown jewels from 1986-'94. Sure, he won three Coca-Cola 600s, but he inherited one of those when Bill Elliott had to pit for gas late, the very same thing that cost Earnhardt a chance to win the Daytona 500, and his 1992 600 win, his only win that year, is shrouded by the pit road speeding controversy. He won three Southern 500s, though there are questions whether or not he would have won the 1987 race without the rain, which shortened that race to just 202 of 367 laps. After all, with drivers like Wallace and even Richard Petty poised to strike, it will forever be unknown what would have happened had the race gone to it's completion. And two of Earnhardt three All-Star Race victories are also shrouded in controversy. One due to dirty driving (1987), and the other due to jumping restarts (1993). Now as for his Daytona 500 failures during that time, it's obvious that Earnhardt didn't have the fuel. He caught Geoff Bodine, who with the instruction of his crew chief, slowed the speed down by more than a second per lap, and Earnhardt STILL ended up being 10 miles short while drafting Bodine. Had he passed Bodine, he might have ended up as many as 8-10 laps short on fuel. The 1987 race was the one that sticks in the craws of many RCR fans, because Earnhardt had the lead entering the final round of pit stops, but his team changed 2 tires while everyone else took on just fuel, costing him a shot at victory. He never really had a shot to win either the 1988 or 1989 races. his car wasn't fast enough in 1988, and he had a carburetor problem that prohibited him from running on the lead in the 1989 race. The only way he could even be competitive was if he drafted the lead car. In 1991 and '93, he had the lead late, and got beat by a better car. And of course, we know what happened in 1990, as he was victimized by the most amazing incident of bad luck ever to strike on the final lap of a major race to that point. (What happened on the final lap of last year's Indianapolis 500 to J.R. Hildebrand with him coming up a car out of fuel that was 53 MPH slower, and crashing as a result of taking evasive action, topped that.) And I disagree that the crown jewels don't mean as much to a driver's legacy. The Daytona 500 might not mean as much as it once did, but how about the others, the Coca-Cola 600 at Charlotte, the Southern 500 at Darlington, the Brickyard 400 at Indianapolis, as well as other important races, such as the All-Star Race. Those races still mean a great deal, and always will, though there are reasons why each of them don't aren't as big as the Daytona 500. The Coca-Cola 600 will always be overshadowed by the Indianapolis 500, run earlier on the same day, wil retain it's importance as long as it's the longest race on the schedule. The Southern 500 really began to lose it's importance with the fans as long ago as the early 1980s, though it regained it's importance in 1985, but lost it again by 2000. But it's always been a hugely important race among the drivers and teams for over 60 years (the 63rd running is coming up in May). And the Brickyard 400 will never be that competitve of a race, but with rare exception (like last year's race), the rundown of the winners of that race is a who's who of the last two decades of the sport, not to mention where it's held. After all, since 1998, seven times the winner of that race also won the championship ion the same year, including four consecutive years from 1998-2001. That can't be a coincidence. 349. Eric posted: 03.23.2012 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Earnhardt also had to deal with Harry Gant, Terry Labonte, Alan Kulwicki,Geoff Bodine and Ernie Irvan. While Terry and Harry were pushovers, that didn't make them mentally weak. They didn't beat themselves or let disappointments derail them. Geoff Bodine was a driver that was very aggressive, and wasn't afraid to stand up to Earnhardt either. Alan Kulwicki was not mentally weak. Terry Labonte matter of fact once called Alan the smartest driver in the garage basically. He did not have a lot of wins, but remember he had lower budget than top teams did. He had to take care of his equipment as a result of having a lower budget, but he found a way to be competitive despite that fact with him putting his degree into good use. Irvan wasn't mentally weak. Irvan was reckless before Yates because he was better than his team. 350. ch posted: 03.23.2012 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know it's not the first time, they even attempted The Glen in the #35 back in 2010. It's just that this is their first main focus on cup since 're-establishing' themselves in 2010. They have said that Mike Bliss will run most races and that their other Nationwide drivers (Eric McClure, Tayler Malsam, and Jeff Green) could run some if sponsorship came along. In the case of McClure and Malsam, they both have full sponsorship with Hefty and G-Oil respectively, so I wouldn't be surprised to see them run a few. They also plan to run many races completely even without sponsorship, including the road courses with a 'ringer'. 351. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2012 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You are really starting to pick nits now. Every single race has pivitol moments that have profound effects on the outcome. If we really wanted to, we could pick apart every single one of his 76 wins. As for the '87 Southern 500, you gotta be kidding me. First off, he led over half the laps that were run. Secondly, he was in the midst of a streak where he won 6 out of 10 Darlington ('86-'90). Third, you are talking about the same Richard Petty who hadn't won in over 3 years, wouldn't win for the rest of his career (5 more years) and hadn't won at Darlington in almost TWENTY YEARS, and Rusty who never won at Darlington. Fourth, that was the only one of his 76 wins that was shortened in any way. I'm gonna go way out on a limb and say he probably would have won that one. Besides, the crown jewels are such a small part of his legacy, and that is saying something. Considering he won them all. It is mostly about getting the most out of his situations, and the championships. You talk about the good breaks he caught in his title years (and again, concerning 1987, you gotta be kidding), but the fact is 8 times he put himself in position to have a real shot at the championship, and 7 times he took the Cup home. And those are cold hard facts. 352. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2012 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sure, Earnhardt was probably going to win the 1987 Southern 500 anyway, especially considering how badly he wanted to win that race, but any time that nearly half a race isn't run, as was the case there, there are always going to be questions about what might have happened. Those same questions have often been asked about the 1968 World 600 at Charlotte, the 1976 Indianapolis 500, and the 2003 Daytona 500, which were shortened to 102 and 109 laps out of 200, respectively. And as far as 1987 goes, the only car and team that would have been capable of defeating Earnhardt for the championship was that of Tim Richmond, who actually was superior to everyone else during the second half of the 1986 season (and picked up right where he had left off when he finally was able to compete in 1987), winning six times, including the Firecracker 400 at Daytona, the Southern 500 at Darlington (with help from Bill Elliott's late race crash), and even at Richmond. We can play the "what if" game until we're blue in the face, but I don't think Earnhardt was going to win six championships nine years and Jeff Gordon was going to win three of the four following Earnhardt's run if they had to run against Richmond and Davey Allison that entire time. You are correct in saying that he got the most out of his situations, as all great champions have done, no matter the sport or time period, but some champions get a lot luckier than others, and that was definately the case regarding three of Earnhardt's championships (1980 with all of his competition imploding, 1990 with Mark Martin's 46-point penalty being more than what Earnhardt beat him by for the title, and 1994 with Ernie Irvan's accident handing him the title two-thirds of the way through the season), but he rightfully earned all of them. It's just like Richard Petty in the Daytona 500. He won seven times, but only had to race hard to the finish in one of them (1979), or A.J. Foyt's four Indianapolis 500 wins, where he inherited the lead late in three out of his four wins (1961 with three laps to go, 1967 with four laps to go, and 1977 with 16 laps to go). It just happens like that. In fact, sometimes things like that only add to a driver's legacy, because the mere specter of their appearance near the top of the standings sometimes causes strange things to happen to their competitors. But the plain truth is that Earnhardt dominated his competition, not only on the track, but also between the ears, as he played mind games with his competitors better than anyone else in the sport's history. His getting into other drivers' heads is a major reason why I think the drivers of Earnhardt's era were, as a group, mentally the weakest in the sport's history, though today's drivers are close in that regard. Somewhere, I know Earnhardt was grinning at what Tony Stewart did to Carl Edwards last year, because you know that he would have done exactly the same thing. And I think Stewart is the ONLY driver today that could have pulled that off the way he did. 353. Anonymous posted: 03.23.2012 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How is it that Kyle Busch gets put on a list of best cup drivers of all time, but his brother isn't even mentioned despite having more wins (for now) and a championship? Of course, having either of them in the top 20 is completely illogical to begin with, but I never understood all the praise for Kyle while Kurt is basically ignored. 354. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2012 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, we don't know how mentally strong Ernie Irvan was going to be in a championship situation, because his crash at Michigan in 1994 robbed him of that chance. Alan Kulwicki was mentally stronger than those he battled for the 1992 championship with, but that's not saying a whole lot, considering that Bil Elliott wasn't mentally tough and Davey Allison wasn't healthy for nearly the second half of that season following two or three hard crashes, and we don't know how a healthy Davey Allison would have fared in a championship battle either. Terry Labonte's problem was that he could be pushed around, but anyone that questions his toughness should look back at the 1996 championship, which he had no business winning, but Jeff Gordon literally handed him the title. There were definately a few mentally tough drivers in Earnhardt's era, but most of the top drivers were weak in that department. That's why there was a stretch of four years from 1993-'96 during which there were only four active drivers with 20 or more wins. (Waltrip, Earnhardt, Elliott, and Wallace) Now, there are nine active drivers with 20 or more wins (Gordon, Johnson, Stewart, Martin, Kurt Busch, Kyle Busch, Kenseth, Burton, and Bobby Labonte), and there could be as many as 13 or 14 by years end, with guys like Edwards (who joins the club with his next win), Hamlin, Harvick, Earnhardt, Jr. (each of which needs two wins), and Biffle (who needs four wins, though the way he's running, that's certainly not out of reach) possibly joining that group. To put it another way, there were only 23 drivers in the history of the sport with 20 or more wins through the 1996 season. By the end of this year, that number could be as high as 36 or 37 if all of the above drivers get the needed wins to reach 20, which would make 14 active drivers with 20 or more wins. 355. Spen posted: 03.24.2012 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I gotta agree with DSFF on this one. Every single championship season, heck every single race, can be looked at from an angle of "if such-and-such hadn't happened, so-and-so wouldn't have won". Name me a race, any race in history, and I'll give you a reason why it shouldn't count. At the end of the day, what matters is that the person who won it did win it, no matter the circumstances. DSFF: A bit off-tangent here but a little comment of yours that I have to disagree with: "Rick has let go of drivers who weren't doing nearly as bad as June (Nemechek comes to mind)". Nemechek wasn't doing as badly? It took him eighteen races just to get a finish of better than *18th* with that car. Not to mention, he wrecked the thing nearly weekly in '02. Yeah, he had a brief hot streak at the end of the year (which was the only thing that put the team in the top-35 in owner points by the end of the season. He was quite lucky that it didn't matter back then.), and he started off '03 fairly well, with the rain-shortened win at Richmond. But the rest of his season was, at best, disapointing. He wasn't even sniffing the top twenty in a year when all of his teammates, including the later years scaredy-cat version of Terry Labonte, was in the top ten. Sounds pretty comparable to June Bug's '09 to me. Nadaeu at least looked competitive in that car on a weekly basis, he just had zero luck. Joe seemed to be trying to hard at first (much like Kasey this year), and just made himself look bad. Yeah, maybe Hendrick could have waited another year, but it seemed pretty obvious that he was just taking up space at HMS. 356. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2012 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also agree Tony and Dale are the only two drivers that I have seen that could have pulled that championship out. When Tony's head is on straight, he is the closest thing we have to Dale. Last year was incredible to watch. It reminded me so much of how Dale out ran AND psyched out Mark and mostly Jack Roush (bringing 6 cars to a test is a bad idea). And you are right about Dale beating them between the ears which adds yet another layer to his legacy. Like I have said, Gordon has a very similar on track style to Dale's. We don't think of it that way because Jeff has always played down his willingness to be aggressive, while Dale played it up. WAY up. Not sure if they are on YouTube or not, but try to watch Jeff Gordon's winning pass on Kyle Busch in last year's Phoenix race and Earnhardt's winning pass on Tim Richmond in the 1985 Busch 500 (the Bristol night race). They are nearly identical. 357. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2012 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Btw cjs, sorry about the chippiness of that post about the '87 Southern 500. I was in the middle of having a heart attack watching my Tar Heels damn near get upended by a 13 seed. And Spen, I definitely agree Nemechek wasn't doing great. But compared to June he was Tim Richmond 358. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.24.2012 - 2:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If we didn't already know this before, we sure know it now: Rick Hendrick has NASCAR in his back pocket. Frankly, I can't believe that first of all, NASCAR rescinded the penalty to the #48 team. Not only do I think it should not have been rescinded, I think it should have been harsher. Like I said earlier this season, they needed to give them a penalty like they gave Carl Long a few years ago to really show HMS that they mean business. I know it's only a C-pillar infraction, but a cold hard fact is that HMS has been blatantly cheating for years and keep getting off lighter than they should. Secondly, that NASCAR would allow Rick's business associate to put his word in to help decide the hearing is complete BS. I have never heard of them doing anything like this before. I definitely agree that it puts a cloud on everything they have accomplished. Gordon and Johnson are both legendary drivers and will most definitely deserve a spot in the "legends" group after they retire, but when discussions about them spark up, they will have their teams brought up too. 359. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2012 - 7:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRandPenskeGuy, the problem was that the car in question was not found to be illegal in the inspection area. It was that NASCAR's inspectors didn't like what they saw with their own eyes and never allowed the car to go through inspection, and never allowed the #48 to fix the problem before taking action that was over the top. Had the problem been found in inspection, I think we would be talking about a different story. It's true that there was a clear intent to cheat. I said that from the beginning, but any penalties should be as a result of what is found DURING inspection, and not before the car is even inspected. That's a major reason why most of the penalty was rescinded, because NASCAR overstepped it's bounds on this one. I'm as hard as anyone on the #48 team, because I think Chad Knaus is the biggest cheater this side of Junior Johnson, but NASCAR went too far this time, and it's about time that they got slapped when they issue a penalty too harsh, as was the case here. And by the way, Gordon is already in the "legends" category, and has been for quite some time. 360. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2012 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRAndPenske, you nailed it. Everything HMS has accomplished has a cloud over it. Obviously, like you said, JJ and Gordon are legendary drivers and would win races and championships no matter what. But how much of their win and championship totals are artificially inflated due to HMS' rampant cheating? The fact HMS keeps cheating tells me they need to have an unfair advantage to have such high totals. Why would they keep doing it after being caught so many times? Cause they have to. 361. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2012 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But honestly, DSFF, how many teams aren't cheating, because I suspect there's cheating rampant through the garage area. Hendrick's team, especially the #48 team, gets caught more than most, but of the 11 or 12 major teams in NASCAR today, I'd say that at least seven or eight are cheating to some extent. It's just that Chad Knaus' rap sheet is so long, that it naturally casts an eye toward Hendrick Motorsports. But most of the teams are doing it. After all, that 1995 incident at Charlotte when Ray Evernham was caught using lightweight hubs was about the only time I can ever remember him actually getting caught cheating in the nearly seven full seasons he was Jeff Gordon's crew chief in the Cup series. But Hendrick Motorsports is hardly the only team running today that has been mired in cheating scandals. It's happened to Roush (numerous times), Childress, Ganassi, Gibbs, Michael Waltrip Racing (who had the most egregious viloation), Penske, as well as other teams that have merged into current organizations, like Dale Earnhardt, Inc. and Evernham Motorsports (which had a team-wide issue with what the #48 had a problem with in 2007 at Daytona). The point is, what major team today HASN'T been involved in a cheating scandal? Hendrick's been involved in more than his share, but almost every other team has had significant, if not major violations in recent years. 362. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2012 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, the amount of cheating throughout NASCAR only started to go up after the 2001 season. And there's a significant reason for that. It was at that time that Gary Nelson stepped down as NASCAR's chief inspector. With Nelson out as chief inspector, teams began pushing the rules like never before, because they knew that whoever was put in charge would never be able to police the garage like Nelson could, nor would they know the tricks that Nelson knew. And isn't it ironic that Jeff Gordon has not won a championship since Nelson stepped down as NASCAR's chief inspector, yet has rarely been caught cheating? Something to think about isn't it? 363. 10andJoe posted: 03.24.2012 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know, there's just one thing I have to say about the whole Hendrick thing. Smokey Yunick built the 7/8 Chevelle, and we grin and chuckle about them good ol' boys. Darrell Waltrip pulled a plug to dump buckshot from his frame rails, and we laugh at the lengths they'd go to get an advantage. Jimmie Johnson's team shapes one part of the car with just a smidge more curve than it really should have, and it's a crime against humanity. 364. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 03.24.2012 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is more of the culmination of all the times in the past HMS cheated worse than this combined with this instance bringing out frustration on my part. Trust me, if this had only been one of the few times they got caught, I wouldn't make a big deal considering it was only a C-pillar infraction. Also, like you implied and cjs pointed out, cheating has been going on in NASCAR since Day One, and other teams do blatantly cheat too. I'm not denying that. Remember Gibbs' Nationwide incident with MagnetGate back in 2008? BTW, when NASCAR caught those teams like DW's and Petty's cheating in the old days, they were right to give those guys whatever penalties they did. But even Penske Racing has had a cheating infraction in the past where they got hit hard. Remember the #12 team getting busted in 2000 with Mayfield? They got a 151 point penalty. Jeff Gordon got hit pretty hard at Richmond later that year after the #24 team was busted (plenty of times in the future where they should have gotten that same penalty). And MWR had one of the most blatant attempts to cheat of the 00's decade, as they were busted with jet fuel during Speedweeks for the 2007 Daytona 500 (the penalty they got for that very well fit the crime, and as a bonus Mikey failed to qualify for the next 11 races). My point is, as often as HMS has actually been busted, I don't think the points should have been given back (like JJ will have any trouble making them up anyway). 365. Currran posted: 03.24.2012 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Outstanding debate DSFF and CJS. I wish the two of you had your own Nascar talk show. I would listen every day. 366. cjs3872 posted: 03.25.2012 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And RCRandPenskeGuy, remember how often that Ganassi got caught cheating, especially on the car that Brian Pattie worked on (#42), and also remember that Todd Berrier was hit hard more than once when he worked with Richard Childress, so Childress is not clean in this regard, either (and I don't count Childress' low-balling their way to their win at Richmond last September as actual cheating). The only prominent team that I know of that has never been involved in a cheating scandal, and they're no longer a prominent team, would be the Wood Brothers. I do not remember any time that the #21 car has ever been involved in a cheating scandal to this day. And Roush has been involved in more than one cheating scandal, including one that actually cost him a championship (in 1990). You lok at all the major teams throughout the history of the sport, every one has been caught cheating, with the possible exception of the Wood Brothers, as I don't ever remember them getting caught cheating. And for two decades, they were as dominant as anyone else. 367. the_man posted: 05.06.2012 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan on a 23rd place finish: "Well, I think we turned a not-so-great-handling car into something a little bit more competitive today. We made some changes this morning and got a little bit more speed in the car and were able to race hard. Our MHP Pit Crew really did a good job all afternoon and helped us on pit road a lot. That's probably the difference between a top-25 and not. But we've still got a lot to work on for when we come back here in the fall." 368. ch posted: 07.16.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor for the #18 should just be Doublemint for consistency. 369. ch posted: 07.18.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #26 Sponsor: MDS Transport (consistent with all 2012/2013 starts) 370. 18fan posted: 09.02.2013 - 2:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad's first win of his championship season was also the first time he ever led the most laps in a race. 371. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 04.24.2014 - 12:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew 7 Robby Gordon Dodge SPEED Energy / MAPEI Robby Gordon 40 Tony Raines Toyota LittleJoe'sAuto.com Mike Hillman 372. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 07.23.2015 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Update #16 3M/811 - Call Before You Dig #24 ARRP Chase Visa & Drive to End Hunger #27 Moen/Menards #30 Food Country USA #32 TMone.com "We Drive Sales" #42 Target/Cottonelle #47 Clorox/Bubba Burger/Scott Products #99 Cheez-It/Kellogg's Frosted Flakes 373. NASCARLover22 posted: 12.24.2015 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates: #55 Aaron's Dream Machine #34 Long John Silver's #18 Wrigley Doublemint #30 Food Country USA/Inception Motorsports #74 Carnegie Hotel/Turn One Racing 374. Maverick11 posted: 04.04.2016 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The most laps Brian Vickers has led in a Cup race with 125, and only one of two races where he led more than 100. The other was the 2005 Pocono 500. 375. DI9_ForLife posted: 10.23.2020 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This was the first race I attended, it wasn't a very good race from what I remember, but it was still a fun experience that helped seal my fandom of NASCAR. 376. Rich posted: 12.19.2020 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Joy, Larry McReynolds and Darrell Waltrip were the commentators. Dr. Dick Berggren, Steve Byrnes, Matt Yocum and Krista Voda were the pit road reporters. Jeff Hammond was the roving reporter. Chris Myers and Michael Waltrip were in the Hollywood hotel. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: