|| *Comments on the 2012 FedEx 400 Benefiting Autism Speaks:* View the most recent comment <#313> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Daniel posted: 06.02.2012 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #26 Josh Wise & #74 Cole Whitt Out using fastest 43: #36 Dave Blaney & #93 Travis Kvapil 2. JG24FanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jimmie J has led the most at Dover a whopping 6 straight races and just got beaten at the last minute for a pole he clearly wants to win. 3. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.02.2012 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Goodyear: Let's make a tire that hardly wears and makes it even harder to pass, that should do the trick...! 4. cjs3872 posted: 06.02.2012 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, Dover always has been one of hardest tracks on tires, because of the layout, so Goodyear has to make a harder tire for Dover. Otherwise, they'll be throwing competition cautions every 50 laps so cars aren't wrecking from blown tires. 5. DaleJrFan posted: 06.02.2012 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ive said it before and i'll say it again Hendrick is giving Jimmie better cars than Jr. He let kahne have a good enough car last week to win but I don't think he will ever let Dale Jr win again if he has anything to say about it. I'm not saying Hendrick is a bad person i don't think he is but for some reason he don't want Jr to win. Does anyone know how come Hendrick favors Johnson so much over Jr? I know Jimmie is probably a better driver than Jr. but Dale still deserves as good as cars as Jimmie gets every week. 6. 10andJoe posted: 06.02.2012 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Busch race: Heartbreaking. 7. 10andJoe posted: 06.02.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) #5: Here, have your tinfoil hat for free. 8. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kudos to Rusty for finally doing his job as a broadcaster and calling Logano out. 9. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.02.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Note to Kurt Busch: Fans talk rif-raf on blog sites and forums all the time, perhaps you should visit them more often. ;-) 10. New 14&88 Fan posted: 06.02.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Truex got screwed, the spotters should of been on the radio to those lapped cars telling 'em to stop racing side-by-side so the leader could get by. Also Kurt needs to shut up, Justin Alligaer may not be cup level talent(yet) but at least he doesn't constantly make an ass of himself by burning bridges with top teams and ending up driving junk and his brother's lower series cars. Speaking of which, Rusty and Andy touched on what may be a reason why Kurt's been in so many accidents this year. Good part of that has been due to bad luck/getting caught up in other people's mess but He's also been over driving the cars, just today he bounced off the wall at least twice according to my count. The minute he learns to relax and stop pushing the cars beyond their capabilities his season may turn around for the better. 11. Daniel posted: 06.02.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think people jumped the gun on blaming the lapped cars. It looked like something might have been wrong on the #23 and the #4 had no choice but to go low. Jamie really fell back after Truex got by and I noticed that he barely coasted to the finish line. I can't stand Logano. Bainey gave him enough room and Joey just punted him. 12. cjs3872 posted: 06.02.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ryan Truex did get screwed, but it was more getting screwed by Lady Luck than it was the lapped cars. When Truex got to those lapped cars, he had nowhere to go, since they were running side-by-side. Then he complicated matters by trying to make a hole, and could have taken out himself, the two lapped cars, and Joey Logano. And the way Logano was catching Truex, there's no guarantee that Truex was going to hold him off anyway. Truex got that lead by punishing his tires, and even before running into those lapped cars, he was losing about a quarter of a second per lap to Logano, and at that rate, Logano would probably have caught and passed Truex within the last three laps anyway. Truex did get unlucky in where he caught the lapped traffic, but there's a pretty good chance that Logano would have beaten him anyway at the rate he was catching him. And what a difference a couple of weeks makes. 12 days ago, it looked like Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. might run away with this championship, as he had virtually a full race lead on the Richard Childress Racing duo of Elliott Sadler and Austin Dillon. But after a brken drive shatft at Charlotte and a crash today, he's lost the points lead, and it's now a real three-horse race between Stenhouse and Sadler, who have five wins between them, and Dillon, who's taking the Terry Labonte approach to winning the Nationaide Series championship this year, as he's in striking distance despite never finishing higher than about third or fourth. There will probably be more on this turn of events in the title race on the Nationwide race comments page. 13. Red posted: 06.02.2012 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But for some reason he don't want Jr to win. Does anyone know how come Hendrick favors Johnson so much over Jr?" But for some reason Junior Nation don't accept reality. Your guy is unmotivated, unfocused, and is the clear #4 driver at Hendrick. You really think Rick wouldn't want a cash cow like Junior to win the championship? That would be the single biggest souvenir sales bonanza in racing history. I can't believe all the ridiculous conspiracies that fans drum up about Hendrick Motorsports. Rick hates Junior, Rick is sabotaging Jeff, Rick wanted Mark to fail, Rick has it all rigged so Jimmie wins every year. COME ON PEOPLE! Ya'll seriously believe this shit?! The fact is, at this point in time, Jimmie Johnson is the best driver at Hendrick. Jeff is still good but past his prime, Junior is the male Danica, and Kasey is an A-/B+ driver but not quite at Jimmie's level. 14. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad K is on Twitter defending Logano and saying the announcers were out of line for calling him out. Miller needs to punish him by forcing him to run Rusty's paint scheme, the black and gold MGD car foor the next six weeks. The point I am trying to make is that I REALLY want to see that scheme again. And if they want to run it at another one of Rusty's old stomping grounds, Martinsville, where I will be (I've already got tht weekend off), then that would be awesome. #welovethrowbackschemes 15. Eric posted: 06.02.2012 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, I don't think you can call Dale Junior the male Danica besides calling him unmotivated and unfocused. Dale doesn't have a win this ,year but a calling driver that has 9 top 10's with 4 top 5's in 12 races unmotivated and not focus is uncalled for besides being 4th in points. Dale is having on of his best starts in season in a long time. Dale has 18 cup wins and 2 Busch championships. Not all of his cup wins are one plate tracks or by inheriting the lead by fuel strategy or by another team screws up. What I am getting at is Dale has more talent than Danica does in Stock Cars. This is a driver that has 2 Phoenix cup wins, 3 Richmond wins in cup, 1 Bristol win in cup, and is very good at Marinsville despite not having a win. Dale actually is not on the same level as Jimmie, but Dale is a good cup driver when focused and motivated like he is this year. At Dale's best, he is a driver having 16 to 21 top 10's a season besides double digit top 5's in a season. That mean's he's not a championship cup driver, but a top 5 or top in points cup driver. What I see out of Dale this year, I see the 2006 version of Dale Jr, not the 2008 version. The 2008 version had problems fading later in the race. The 2006 version is a driver that gets better during the race. 16. Eric posted: 06.02.2012 - 7:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, Mark Martin in 2010 did not have the same engineer as he did in 2009 with the engineer going the 88 team with a unfocused and unmotivated driver. Mark in 2011 had Lance McGrew as a crew chief. Lance is has been a weak link for Hendrick in Crew chiefs for a while. I know lance did not have great or good drivers in Vickers and Mears, but what he underachieved with Mark. I am saying that because this year with MWR is going better than he did last year. Mark isn't in his prime, but he is still a good driver. 17. JG24FanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why hasn't anyone mentioned Junior's career high's this year? 6 consecutive Top 10's and his current average finish is an awesome 8.2,that's light years better than JJ's(48) best season average finish of 9.7 in 2006,and I don't think Junior will fade this year like in the past. 18. Eric posted: 06.02.2012 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, I am not a Dale Junior fan, but claiming false facts of a driver of a current year is something that I correct in cases like this. 19. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.02.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Mark is starting to love Q-day. Misses 3 races and has the most Cup poles this year. Last time a driver running part-time had the most poles was Buddy Baker with 7 in '79, although Cale Yarborough tied for the most in '84. 20. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm here at Bowman Gray Stadium for the K&N race and the modifieds (but mostly the modifieds). Travis Pastrana is in this race. I'll let you know how he does. 21. Eric posted: 06.02.2012 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, Dale Jr. during the summer time had tracks that don't exactly fit him. While the June to August stretch has Michigan, Daytona and Bristol for Dale Jr, there are some tracks that he isn't that great on. Dale really never has been good on Road Courses. Dale's best finish at Sears Point is 11th. He also doesn't have great stats at Watkin's Glen either in cup. The other thing to look at is Dale suffered burns in a sports car race in 2004 and it is a question if it effects him mentally on road courses since he claimed to see his father in 2004 when the sports car he raced in was on fire. Dale was doing a sports car race because he wanted to improve his road racing skills. Indy never had been a great track for him either with him only having 2 top 10's there. Before last year, Dale only had 6 top 10's in 22 starts at Pocono. While he now has 8 top 10's there, it is not one of his better tracks from a career standpoint. Dale had a lot of stretches there without a top 10 finish. New Hampshire Motor Speedway is a hit or miss track for him. Dover is not a great track either for him. While Dale has a win there, he was has struggled mightily there in his cup career. 22. LordLowe posted: 06.02.2012 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) NASCAR would be better off without Dale Jr and Danica 23. LordLowe posted: 06.02.2012 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) You Know what Lets put Danica and Johanna out there on any racetrack for a 20 or 30 lap heat race and the looser of that race is banished from the world of auto Racing and will be scalped and after they're finished lets put Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr out there for another 20 to 30 lap heat race and like with Danica and Johanna the loser of that race must leave motorsports forever. 24. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darrell Wallace Jr is here and is doing really well. Just hope these rednecks don't do nything like they normally do. 25. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pastrana is a rolling roadblock. He has taken so many shots in the ass, I would swear he is Roger Clemons and the rest of the field is Brian McNamee. 26. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chase Elliott just got dumped. Wonder if the guy who hit him is related to Earnhardt lol. 27. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.02.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Corey LaJoie won, Darrell Wallace was 2nd after totally dumping somebody on the last lap. Now there are about 50 fights going on. Just another night at Bowman Gray. 28. 10andJoe posted: 06.02.2012 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If we were 'fastest 38 and provisionals': Last qualifier on time: Scott Riggs. Provisionals: Mears, Kvapil, Sorenson, Reutimann, Blaney ...so, no change. 29. Red posted: 06.03.2012 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, you make good points about Junior, and are correct on all of them. When I compared Junior to Danica, it was intended to be hyperbole, intentionally mocking the people who believe Rick is curtailing his success in favor of Jimmmie. In other words, Junior's lack of success isn't because of his owner, it's because he just ain't that good. He is having a bit of a career renaissance this year, but I don't expect him to keep up his rock steady consistency for another 24 races. However, I will stand by my comments about him being unmotivated and unfocused, as he has been exactly that for the better part of five years now. Even with his success this season, I don't think Junior has the same fire that any of his teammates do, and wouldn't be at all surprised if he gets distracted by something and allows his performance to plummet. As far as Mark goes, I agree that he had better cars and engineers in 2009 than he did in `10 or `11. However, I've heard people say that Rick was purposely trying to screw him, because he was upset that Mark wouldn't retire and give his seat to Kasey. That's taking it too far, IMO. In reality, Mark just became the lowest priority, but I feel safe in saying Rick still wanted to see him succeed. And regarding Rick supposedly favoring Jimmie over Jeff, again, I just don't understand why that would be. Jeff is more famous, more popular, and a 5th championship from him would undoubtedly be a huge moneymaker for HMS. What has Jeff done to fall out of favor from Rick? Seriously, I can't think of any logical reason. Conspiracy theories are like crimes: without a legitimate motive, there's no reason to believe anything happened. Conversely, I can totally understand why people would think the NBA draft lottery was rigged, because David Stern would've had ample motive to do so. 30. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, there is one big reason for Hendrick to scr%^ Jeff, and that is fact that Jimmie and Chad have made it clear that they will lie, cheat, and even steal (literally) to beat Jeff on the racetrack. For God's sake they commanded Jeff to give Jimmie his pit crew because Jimmie's couldn't tell a lugnut from Captain Nemo if they were labeled. Jeff was strong in that race, and that pit crew swap hurt Jeff's performance. That 2010 fiasco proved something, and that was that the 48 car can't win as a team. The New Jersey Devils can't say to the Penguins right now "Give us Evgeni Malkin or die" for obvious reasons, but Chad did it to Jeff. For Hendrick to allow such a prostitution of ethics shows there is favoritism. Likewise, Jeff has fewer yrs left than Jimmie. 31. Baker posted: 06.03.2012 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see Tony Stewart is back in full blow suck mode. He'll be lapped by 80. He's going to have to step up his qualifying efforts if he wants to compete the way the races have started caution free this year. 32. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's take some bets: if Tony keeps struggling, how long until the "Smoke and Zippy are gonna reunite" rumors start? I say in 3 weeks provided he keeps off the pace. I also don't think it will happen, but I fully expect the rumors to heat up. 33. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good god Dover is empty. 34. jabber1990 posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) who sung the national anthem? he did a good job thats one way they could determine who wins American Idol, sing the national anthem! 35. jabber1990 posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) would it be wise or dumb to bring your bristol car to Dover? 36. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, if you remember that race at Texas where the 24 and 48 teams swapped pit crews, Jeff was running strong, but was involved in an incident with Jeff Burton while the caution was out (remember the scuffle on the backstretch betwen those two there?), so Gordon was already out of the race, so it had no bearing at all on his day. And that was not toally unprecedented, even that year in the Chase. Richard Childress Racing did exactly the same thing with the 29 and 33 pit crews earlier in the Chase that year. And Roush has done that, as well. 37. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jabber1990, teams across the NASCAR series used to do that. They used to bring the Bristol cars to Dover, and vice versa. They called those cars their "concrete cars". 38. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NASCAR 'fans' finally got what they wanted... 39. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dover has been well known to have crashes like these. Not terribly surprising to see an accident like that here. 40. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kinda ironic Tony is one of the biggest "it's too early to race hard" guys. 41. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Its an S&P armaggedon. 42. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, this means that most of the rest of the race might go green, because of the reduced field. At least one good things comes from this incident. There won't be as many start-and-parks from this race, because a number of the start-and-parks were invopved in this incident, including Michael McDowell, Scott Speed, Joe Nemechek, and Stephen Leicht. David Ragan made a great move to avoid the accident. He was right in the vicnity of where the accident started, but made a great move to avoid it. Others involved include, but are not limited to both BK Racing cars, Tony Stewart, Casey Mears, Juan Montoya, and Regan Smith. There may have even have been others involved. The accident started when Landon Cassill appeared to move down into Tony Stewart. 43. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I guess this will doom some of these teams to S&P for ages to come... I remember seeing this exact same type of accident back in the '08 spring race here. 44. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, there have been other huge crashes at Dover. The biggest I can remember took place in 1995, when John Andretti, running in the top five, lost it, and more than half the field, including many of the sport's biggest stars at the time, were caught up in it. That crash certainly aided Kyle Petty's run from 37th to victory lane that day. There was another big one in 1991 that involed 15 or more cars, which help Hary Gant lap the entire field that day. And of course, there was 2004, when an accident took place on a restart with the leaders back in traffic that involved 15 or more cars. So these crashes are more common at Dover than one might think. 45. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jaws, make up your freaking mind. First you are critiicizing Regan (whoo didn't have a damn place to go) had a ton of room to avoid hitting Tony, now your loudmouth is saying "well you can't stop on a dime". Make up your self whoring mind. Also, Dale was way better than you. 46. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty caused a big one in 1993 that took championship rival Earnhardt out as well as rookie Jeff Gordon who was having a really good day. 47. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ryan Truex did get screwed, but it was more getting screwed by Lady Luck than it was the lapped cars. When Truex got to those lapped cars, he had nowhere to go, since they were running side-by-side. Then he complicated matters by trying to make a hole, and could have taken out himself, the two lapped cars, and Joey Logano. And the way Logano was catching Truex, there's no guarantee that Truex was going to hold him off anyway. Truex got that lead by punishing his tires, and even before running into those lapped cars, he was losing about a quarter of a second per lap to Logano, and at that rate, Logano would probably have caught and passed Truex within the last three laps anyway. Truex did get unlucky in where he caught the lapped traffic, but there's a pretty good chance that Logano would have beaten him anyway at the rate he was catching him." I agree I think Logano was going to win even if the lap cars would of gave him more room. "Let's take some bets: if Tony keeps struggling, how long until the "Smoke and Zippy are gonna reunite" rumors start? I say in 3 weeks provided he keeps off the pace. I also don't think it will happen, but I fully expect the rumors to heat up." I don't think he's doing that bad. Remember how he was in the regular season last year? What I'm trying to say is the first 26 races don't mean jack. He'll; be fine when the chase comes. 48. DaleJrFan posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rick's at it again giving Jimmie a better car than Jr. He will do everything in his power to make sure Dale Jr never wins again as long as he is his car owner. I hate to say it but until Jr leaves Hendrick, he probably isn't going to win. 49. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My prediction it will be a good battle between Gordon and Johnson for the win. Gordon knows he needs to get going if he makes the chase. I say he beats Johnson in an amazingly close battle. 50. JG24FanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) my buddy is looking strong 51. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great, ANOTHER Junior fan who thinks everyone is against him. People like DaleJrFan are EXACTLY why I will never be a Dale Jr. fan-refusing to accept the fact that Junior might be behind his own struggles in NASCAR. No, they're always giving him bad cars, NASCAR just doesn't want him to win, Rick Hendrick likes Jimmie Johnson better than Dale Jr....I'm really sick of hearing that. 52. Dave#38fan posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) all these fail junior fans crack me up. now there excuse for junior not winning is rick hendrick not giving him good cars because he doesn't want him to win!? XD what POSSIBLE reason could a car owner have for sabotaging one of his own cars? NONE! ever think that the reason goonyer isn't winning is because he A(isn't a very good driver) and B(has so much money he has no reason to care about racing anymore). now i'm no fan or rick hendrick, but even he wouldn't do that to one of HIS OWN cars. 53. Spen posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleJrFan: If you want to blame someone, blame Knaus. He's notoriously stingy when it comes to information sharing. Or blame LeTarte, who has a knack for throwing away wins. But I highly doubt Rick has anything to do with Junior being winless. 54. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rick Hendrick and Dale Earnhardt Junior are best friends. Rick Hendrick I think wants to see him win more than any of his other drivers. Didn't he give him a 5 year extension after he stunk up Hendrick Motersports like no one has even seen? Junior is good he's turned into the kind of consistency. Really scary fact for Junior fans. 2012: 15th in amount of lead laps. 2011: 22nd in amount of lead laps. Drivers a head of him in 2012 in this category. BRIAN VICKERS!!!!!!! - 2 Starts this year AJ Allmendinger - 24th in standings 2011 a head of him in this category. Ryan Newman Greg Biffle - 16th in Standings Clint Bowyer - 13th in standings Martin Truex Junior - 18th in standings Juan Pablo Montoya - 21st in standings Jamie McMurray - 27th in Standings Jeff Burton - 20th in Standings Paul Menard - 17th in Standings Mark Martin - 22nd in Standings Joey Logano - 24th in Standings Leading laps is by far the most underrated statistic in nascar. And your talking to the biggest statistics nerd in america. 55. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I need to re-read these messages before posting them. 56. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But 12345Dude, laps led can also be a false statistic. Jeff Gordon this year is a case in point. He's among the leaders in that category because of just one race, Martinsville. His car really hasn't been fast enough to lead most races this year, though it could be today. But if you dominate a short track race, you can really get fat in the laps led department off just one or two races, so I don't put that much stock in that. 57. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, the double file restarts strike again. Drivers like Matt Kenseth and Jeff Gordon, who were third and fifth, each lost a couple of positions because the inside line can't go anywhere on restarts at Dover. The guys on the inside spin their tires, and the outside has all the momentum in the first lap because they can use the hill to keep their momentum. 58. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But 12345Dude, laps led can also be a false statistic. Jeff Gordon this year is a case in point. He's among the leaders in that category because of just one race, Martinsville. His car really hasn't been fast enough to lead most races this year, though it could be today. But if you dominate a short track race, you can really get fat in the laps led department off just one or two races, so I don't put that much stock in that." Yeah your right. That's especially true with Brian Vickers. But still look at some of the guys that are ahead of him (and I'm a junior fan) "Well, the double file restarts strike again. Drivers like Matt Kenseth and Jeff Gordon, who were third and fifth, each lost a couple of positions because the inside line can't go anywhere on restarts at Dover. The guys on the inside spin their tires, and the outside has all the momentum in the first lap because they can use the hill to keep their momentum." Your right that is a problem. Especially with some of the East and West races when one line is so much better. But I think it's the best system for racing. But luck is a big part - seeing which line you will get. 59. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch just blew up. 60. JG24FanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) nothing like commercials for 2/3 of a broadcast 61. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, they barely even talked about Kyle having an engine failure. Too busy with commericals, huh? 62. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) New leader 63. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOX is a joke. 64. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And the lone bright spot of FOX's coverage, its pit reporters, is losing Dr Dick. Harvick's crew oughta cuss him out the way he does to them. 65. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Harvick's crew oughta cuss him out the way he does to them." You can say that again. I have never seen a driver so hard to his crew. 66. JG24FanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You can say that again. I have never seen a driver so hard to his crew." Kurt Busch? Tony Stewart? 67. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What is going on with Wile E Coyote Jeff Gordon this time? 68. NadeauFan91 posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Gordon's problems continue. It's seriously reached a point where it's just become funny. 69. JG24FanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It never ends. 70. New 14&88 Fan posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Jeff Gordon's screwy season continues. 71. BON GORDON posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im not laughing anymore. Ive had enough. 72. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 24 team must have bought their lugnuts and air guns from the Acme Corporation. 73. JG24FanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm gonna nickname Jimmie Johnson "The Road Runner" from now on. 74. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You can say that again. I have never seen a driver so hard to his crew." Kurt Busch? Tony Stewart? Kurt Busch makes everyone that works on his team feel like crap. Yeah true. I would say though Kevin is worse then Tony. 75. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darrell Waltrip hit it on the head. The moved Joey Logano up too soon. Imagine if they put Logano back full time in the nationwide series. These would be the drivers for them + there unstoppable equipment. Ryan Truex Drew Herring (very underrated) Darrell Wallace Junior Joey Logano Feel like I'm forgetting someone. 76. Dave#38fan posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @#75 you're forgetting brad coleman and matt dibenedetto. 77. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad! Where you been all day? Kurt is just a dick to everyone. And now we have the obligatory Kenseth in '04 video from Dover. 78. FoxTrax posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm late, I know. But that last restart was pretty damn exciting, I have to say. This goes against my instincts as a NASCAR fan, but I'm kinda hoping for one more. Also, sucks that Berggren's retiring. 79. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS What did you say about Jeff Gordon because here he comes like he has been shot out of a canyon 80. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon is just cursed this year 81. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hang on guys, if it goes green, Wile E Coyote Jeff Gordon might be in the catbird's seat. 82. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The biggest thing working against Jeff? Kurt Busch is still out there and hasn't torn anything up for Finch this weekend. 83. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or the fact that the buffoons that run NASCAR are still running NASCAR. Debris? Bull Shit 84. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank you NASCAR for screwing us fans out of a finish between the best two drivers in the sport. 85. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 17th place finish for Jeff Gordon this week! 86. ///WWE posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another fantastic race delivered by NASCAR. 87. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And knowing Gordon's luck, it'd be almost fitting if he crashed after getting back on the lead lap. 88. New 14&88 Fan posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All the breaks are falling Jeff's way, Kurt's engine going kaput lets him come around and get four fresh tires. The only thing is he may not have enough time to get back to the front and challenge the 48. 89. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is NO way he has enough time to get back to Jimmie Johnson. FOX shouldn't even try to kid themselves. If this was a 500 lap race like it used to be, he'd still be in contention, but a 400-lap race? No. 90. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too few laps. NASCAR screwed us again. That finish would have been epic had they gone green. And Kurt's motor wouldn't have blown had it gone green, the cycling killed it. Like his brother's, it blew shortly after a restart. 91. New 14&88 Fan posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Jeff Burton's motor just grenaded, that's the third engine failure today. 92. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again, slowing them down and restarting them is hell on motors. That debris caution killed the race as well as a possible epic showdown between the best drivers in the sport, two of the Top 10 ever. Thank you NASCAR. 93. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now we get to watch JJ cruise to the win instead of fighting off a hungry Gordon. 94. 12345Dude posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "@#75 you're forgetting brad coleman and matt dibenedetto." I thought Matt DiBenedetto had a ton of potential. But I think Job Gibbs racing canned him. Brad Coleman is awful. I haven't seen much from him. 95. beau posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) can someone different just win already for god's sake? and can we have an actual good finish? 96. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What the hell is with the clown wigs for Jimmie Johnson and his team? Did I miss something here? 97. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon is Having A Geoff Bodine 1994 type of season 98. Baker posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I called Hendrick dominating after the aero change. NASCAR and Hendrick's checkbooks are one in the same. The rest of the season is going to suck. 99. Schroeder51 posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It looks so ridiculous seeing someone with clown hair setting foot in victory lane... 100. DaleJrFan posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The race proves my point about Rick favoring Jimmie over Dale Jr. Jr did good and i'm glad he did but I knew with 50 laps to go when Jr was 2nd he wasn't going to win and Jimmie probably would. I just want Rick to give Dale Jr as good cars as good he gives Jimmie. Rick gave Jr Steve Letarte as crew chief last year becuase he wanted him to do better but he doesn't want him to win 101. Spen posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks for pulling it off when I needed you to win, Jimmie. Incidentally, I thought that was the prettiest paint scheme JJ's ever had. 102. FoxTrax posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @DaleJrFan Interesting. Please, share more of your batshit delusions with us. Is Dale Jr.'s car taken over by a poltergeist every week? Did Teresa put a shaman's curse on his career? 103. Daniel posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm pretty much sick of drivers not being able to pass. Gordon had one of the best cars all day, and once he got stuck in traffic he couldn't pass a soul. Ambrose, who is probably my favorite driver, runs like crap all race, sneaks into the top 10 and nobody can pass him. 104. 10andJoe posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junior Nation looks like idiots all the time. But every now and then one of them opens their mouth and removes all doubt. 105. Dave#38fan posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) johnson's clown wig is for his sponsor, the upcoming motion picture madagascar 3. have you not seen the preview where the zebra is dancing around in a clown wig singing "circus afro, circus afro"? 106. murb posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought it was a decent race. That debris caution unfortunately ended it for Jeff, who I thought clearly had a good enough car to contend with Jimmie. Harvick, Kenseth, and Dale Jr. just didn't have anything at the end, so the 48 just took off. Also, I need to eat a little crow right now. Yesterday on the NNS page, I said that Logano would probably run 25th all day. But he obviously ran about 10th-15th all day. So he did a good job. I guess he is pretty good at Dover. So I have to eat my words after today. (But I still don't think he deserves the 20 car. Until he gets a couple of non-fluke wins, I'm not convinced that he is the best thing since sliced bread.) 107. JG24FanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great race anyway 57th win for Johnson, 8th on Concrete surface 1 behind Gordon's record of 9 100th Top 5 finish for the beloved June Bug Gordon's best run at Dover since his last win in 2001 and finishes 13th "I think we should have won the race!" -JG- 108. murb posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm pretty much sick of drivers not being able to pass." I couldn't agree more. I think it's Goodyear's fault. It seems like the tires just don't fall off anymore, thus creating less passing. But I guess the current boxy-ass car could have something to do with it too... 109. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hope to god that NASCAR is making their new car for next year. much much more raceable and passable then the crap we got now. 110. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DALE JR HASN'T DONE ANYTHING FOR THE PAST 4 YEARS IT IS OBVIOUS THAT HE HAS NO PASSION FOR THE SPORT AND HE IS NOTHING BUT AN UNMOTIVATED SLOB AND WHY HE STILL HAS A JOB IS BEYOND ME 111. Dave#38fan posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) logano's good run had NOTHING to do with talent, it was the high attrition in the race. fail jr had a top ten for crying out loud. if not for the big one, logano would have been around 14th-18th (still a great run by his standards). 112. Mr X posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For crying out loud, Rick isn't trying to sabatoge Dale Jr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes the 48 and 88 cars are prepared in the same shop by a similar group of people with all the same equipment. But once the cars get to the track the 48 and 88 are seperate entities. Virtually everything on these cars are adjustable, and virtually everything that is adjustable can make the lap times slower or faster. The 48 runs better then the 88 for several reasons, Chad Knaus is a far better crew chief then Steve Letarte. Chad is the best crew chief the sport has seen in several years. When it comes to the development of HMS I guarentee that the majority of it is developed by Chad, and frankly Steve probably develops the least of it, less then Alan or Kenny. Steve has spent the last several years being bottle fed by Chad, and Chad can cut off the supply of speed secrets at any time, which is why Jeff Gordon could generally keep pace with Jimmie Johnson until the chase arrived during the 2006-2010 time frame. During the chase Steve would be left to fend for himself during the chase, and the results spoke for themselves. This is also part of the reason why Robbie Loomis left in 2005. I don't think that Chad will leave Steve for dead now due to one simple reason. Steve's driver is no longer Jeff Gordon, it's Dale Jr. who is talented but not Jimmie Johnson talented. DaleJrFan be happy, Dale is closer to winning a race now then he has been since 2008. Congrats to Jimmie, although the luck is still bad, I think the worst of the storm has passed for Jeff Gordon I think, thank god no more NASCAR broadcasts are on Fox until February, and good luck to Dick Berggren. 113. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also Lets drop Goodyear as the primary tire sponsor and get someone else who will do their job and present a much better tire which will wear out quicker and the drivers can race side by side on 114. Anonymous posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just a matter of time before Jimmie reaches 100 wins and 7 titles. Enjoy the greatness while it's in front of you folks. 115. JG24FanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about Firestone tires? 116. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, there were only 25 or 26 healthy cars that were going to try to go the distance after the lap 9 crash, though Logano did better than most people expected. That probably because Logano's a conservative driver. That's probably the reason why Aric almirold did as well as he did, while A.J. Allmendinger did as poorly as he did. Petty has the setup for Dover, but Allmendinger drives too hard and abuses his equipment, which is why he never got the finishes that car deserved. On the other hand, Almirola's conservative nature fits perfectly with Dover, and ran in the top five late and finished sixth. And could the reason a phantom caution came out after Jeff Gordon's pit stop, if indeed that debris caution he questioned (and rarely ever questions a NASCAR call) was a phantom caution, was because NASCAR didn't like the way that Gordon was going to steal that race. now having said that, Jeff Burton's engine problem made that academic, in terms of fluking a win by being out of sync on pit stops. And by the way, only 21 healthy cars (of 43 starters) finished the race. That means there were more cars that had trouble or were start-and-parks than there were healthy cars that finished, due to the lap 9 crash, but also due to other start-and-parks not in that incident. 22 cars either had major problems or were start-and-parks and 21 cars finished in healthy condition. such is the lack of depth of the fields these days. And oddly enough, Tony Stewart, despite igniting that huge crash, ran the last third of the race in the same position in which he ran and finished last week with a healthy car, 25th. 117. Eric posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleJrFan, You need to grow up and you give race fans a bad name. Rick is not sabatoge Dale Jr at all. The 88 and 48 have great cars. Dale Jr. usually doesn't finish well at Dover. This not a Dale Jr. track despite the fact he likes the place and won a race here is 2001. What happen here is the better driver and Crew Chief won. Dale is a very good driver when motivated, but he does not the talent of Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson. Mr.X seemed it up with the crew chief part. You should thankful that Dale Jr. is having his best season in a long time. 118. Mr X posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also I forgot to mention that todays race was at Dover, the track that JJ dominates more then any other Dale Jr has little more then I have at this track since 2001 before Johnson even got to this level. 119. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And LordLowe, they'll only be able to go 25-28 laps next week at Pocono between pit stops, and about 35 laps at Michigan, not because of tires, but because of fuel. The drivers can run much harder because they can't go as far on fuel. As a result, tire conservation is no longer a factor. So next week, look for pit stops aropund every 25 laps. It will look like an Indianapolis 500 with the frequency of pitting under the green flag. And until NASCAR does something to help lengthen the fuel runs back to close to 100 miles, where it was for decades, tire conservation will never be a serious factor again, no matter what tires are on the car, unless it's at a place like Atlanta, because of the worn surface, which will have to be repaved in the not-too-distant future. Then Atlanta, too will be subject to long runs with everyone running as hard as they can because the tires aren't on the car long enough to wear out. In fact, I wouldn't be surprused if we see fuel-only and two-tire green flag stops next week at Pocono, as well as Michigan, simply because they don't need to change tires. At least next week's race at Pocono is just 400 miles for the first time. 120. Eric posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave#38fan, The attrition today really doesn't have anything with Dale finishing in the top 10 unlike Logano's good run. The big one early in the race had no driver that was going to finish higher than Dale including Stewart. Stewart has been struggling later and that means it is unlikely that he would have finished higher than the 88 car. Dale was going to finish in the top 10 today no matter how you look at, but finishing 4th wouldn't have been likely to happen. Kyle, Edward would have been in the top 10. Jeff Gordon would have had a top 2 finish. The meant at worse Dale was going to get a 7th place finish. I know Jeff Burton blew an engine, but Jeff in 2012 isn't likely to get a better finish than Dale. Dale Jr. before this race had 9 top 5's compare to Jeff's 3 top 10's. The big one early the race had no one really that capable of getting a top 10 at Dover except for maybe Stewart. 121. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR is run by a bunch of retarded bungling Idiots. 122. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 85,000 people lol. 123. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race had a crappy winner, the golf had a crappy winner, the IndyCar race stinks... WHAT"S WRONG WITH THE WORLD??!?!?!?!?! 124. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) well build a bigger gas tank then. 125. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And could the reason a phantom caution came out after Jeff Gordon's pit stop, if indeed that debris caution he questioned (and rarely ever questions a NASCAR call) was a phantom caution, was because NASCAR didn't like the way that Gordon was going to steal that race. " Am I the only person here who finds that to be completely and utterly disgusting? You're probably right, CJS, but why does it seem like you almost agree with this? 126. Red posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junior fans are very much analagous to Tim Tebow fans. Everything is a conspiracy. They are so blindly devoted to their man that no amount of objective proof will open their eyes to reality. With Tebow fans, they blame his coaches, his receivers, and the playcalling, while conveniently ignoring the fact that Tebow is a 45% passer, and would need colossal improvment to become merely average. Similarly, Junior fans blame his owner, his crew chief, his enginners, his teammates, while ignoring the fact that he just isn't an elite driver and never will be. The reason Jimmie beat Junior today is NOT because Rick is sabotaging Junior, it's because Jimmie and Chad are simply better. Junior Nation is the biggest reason why much of America still thinks of NASCAR as a hillbilly sport; they are mostly a group of ignorant, thoughtless slobs who worship at the alter of a mediocre driver. One other thought about Junior's 2012 season. Despite him running top 5 or top 10 nearly every week, does anybody really feel like he's a legitimate threat to win? I don't. Even when he restarted 2nd in this race, at no point did I believe he had a chance to win. It's no coincidence Junior has SEVEN runner-up finishes since his last victory; he doesn't have the heart, the fire, the moxie to step up and get it done. Now, I could see him winning a plate race, or stealing a win with pit strategy, but I would be surprised if he wins a race this year on speed and driving ability. With Gordon sitting 21st in points, I still believe he can make the chase. All he has to do is win a couple races and finish top 15 every week, and he'll be in. With the performance of the #24, that is very doable, as long as their terrible luck changes, which it will eventually. 127. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, because NASCAR doesn't generally like to see guys steal race with crazy strategy, although Gordon had the best car. But even so, it would not have mattered because there were two late cautions for engine failures. And why does NASCAR list those reasons for cautions as "oil on the track" instead of "??-blown engine", because it's the blown engine that brings out the caution. Not only is there oil, but also water, metal debris, and even smoke from the car from a blown engine. And I mentioned the fact that there were more cars that had problems or were start-and-parks (22) than there were healthy cars to finish (21). And how much longer until teams like Germain Racing's #13 car and Front Row Motorsports' #38 car also begin S&P'ing? This has been about the time of the year when the #13 has done S&P's the last two years, and FRM's #38 is not heavily sponsored either, and with one FRM car (#26) S&P'ing now, can another be far behind? With the gap between 35th and 36th in owner's points being more than a full race, and 36th entering today's race being occupied by a part-time team (Wood Brothers Racing's #21 car), I'm sure we'll see some of the teams near the bottom of the top 35 doing start-and-parks (such as the #13, #38, and maybe one or two others), making races like today's, when only half the field is in healthy running order, a more common ocurrence. But there's another thing to all this. Why were there so many blown engines in today's race? Dover, because of the short straightaways, should be one of the easiest tracks on engines, but four engines blew in today's race. And how high was the attrition? I mentioned Tony Stewart finished exactly where he did last week (25th), despite spending nearly 20% of the race on the sidelines. But here's another tidit on that. Only 29 cars finished half the race (one of which only went two laps past that) and Jeff Burton blew an engine 36 laps from the finish and still finised 22nd. He's run and finished lower than that in many of the races in which he finished this year, yet he finished 22nd in a race in which he spent almost the last 10% of the race on the sidelines. 128. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well, because NASCAR doesn't generally like to see guys steal race with crazy strategy, although Gordon had the best car." And, so like I said....you're ok with that? 129. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not if they're from phantom cautions, myothercarisanM535i. But again, it wouldn't have mattered on the strategy front because of two later cautions from blown engines. When Jeff Gordon, who hardly ever questions anything when it comes to an in-race decision NASCAR makes, questions the validity of a caution flag, then you know something's fishy, because Gordon questioning a NASCAR decision is like Ted Williams questioning a ball-strike call, or Bjorn Borg questioning a line call. It just doesn't happen, so when it does happen, chances are that he's right and NASCAR's wrong. 130. Red posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well, because NASCAR doesn't generally like to see guys steal race with crazy strategy, although Gordon had the best car." I don't see it that way at all. Look at 2011, probably half the races were decided by strategy, and I didn't see NASCAR doing anything to curtail it. If anything, I think NASCAR would rather see a crazy shuffled finish than to let a race play out naturally. In all fairness to NASCAR, I feel that their officiating this year has been less dubious than in years past. There haven't really been any controversies this year. The Martinsville fiasco was forced by the #10 car, and the Carl Edwards restart penalty at Richmond was the right call. 131. Eric posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, I am not Dale Jr fan, but why are not addressing the haters of Dale Jr. also? I am saying that because there are Dale Jr haters that claim every Dale Jr. won in Nationwide or cup because NASCAR fixes the race for Jr. The comments by some the haters just as bad as the fans of the 88 are such as DaleJrFan post on post 100. 132. Brad24 posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think if there is debris on the track, NASCAR should make it a REQUIREMENT for the camera guys at FOX/TNT/SPEED/ESPN to actually show the debris. That way we can see for ourselves on TV and on the big screen at the track. As for all you fans that were complaining about not enough cautions before, I hope you're happy. As a longtime Jeff Gordon fan, it's very irritating to see great runs all season only be taken away by something out of his hands. NASCAR screwed him over big time with that "debris" caution. He would've easily won the race if it had stayed green. Sooner than later, Gordon will win. It appears as if Jimmie Johnson has gotten his golden horseshoe back. 133. RaceFanX posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Stremme made an amazing move to get the red #30 through the big one without a scratch on it...and still had to start-and-park less than 60 laps later. 134. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This has not been a Very good year for NASCAR. 135. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, you're right, many races last year were decided by strategy, but nothing like what would have happened today, with the out of sync pitting actually deciding the race. That debris caution was probably a ruse to get everyone else caught up to Jeff Gordon in terms of pit stops. But unlike what Brad24 said, that did not have a bearing on the outcome of the race, as there were two more cautions for blown engines, which would have happened anyway, so that suspicious "debris" caution, which was a ruse to get everyone caught up to Gordon on pit stops, had no bearing on the outcome of the race. Had there been no other caution flags after that debris caution, it would be a different story. In fact, it was a caution you could see coming from a mile away. And actually, I'm surprised there weren't more debris cautions, if only because of the number of cars on the track damaged from the lap 9 crash, as well as Carl Edwards from his crash later on. Because of that, I'm surprised there weren't more than those two debris cautions, one of which was suspicious, and the other being from a piece of debris the cameras immediately spotted, not to mention the four blown engines, which also drop debris on the track, and there was no caution for Kyle Busch's blown engine. 136. Red posted: 06.03.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, the reason I'm not addressing Junior haters is because a)they are nowhere near as vocally irrational as his fans, and b)there aren't any regular posters on this site who claim that his wins and championships were fixed. I honestly think that most Junior "haters" are just reacting to the delirium of his fans, and wouldn't have much issue with Junior otherwise. I know I may be coming across as a hater, but I really have no problem with Dale himself. He's a talented driver who had several great seasons at the beginning of his career, but has underachieved since. At this point he's chase caliber but not championship caliber. He's good but not great. As far as his future success, I think he'd be better off leaving Hendrick, and running for a mid-size team where he can be the #1 guy, and not have the pressure of keeping up with world class teammates. I realize he and Rick have a father/son type of relationship, but the buttoned up, clean cut image of HMS just doesn't suit Junior's style. I know he is loyal to Chevy, but I think Junior taking over the #55 at MWR would be a good move for all parties. Less pressure, and he gets to team up with his buddies Truex and Mikey. 137. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol Spen, I also picked JJ for my race pool. Once again I would like to thank NASCAR for screwing us out of what may have been an epic finish between Gordon and Johnson. I think JJ would have won anyways, it seemed like he had something left in the tank all day even though Jeff could run faster lap times at certain points. But at least Jeff would have made him earn it. Instead he got to cruise to victory, basically toying with Harvick, keeping the interval just under 2 seconds to avoid NASCAR throwing yet another boredom debris caution. Its not like us fans, even people like myself that are not 24 or 48 fans, have fond memories of Martinsville '07 or Atlanta '11. So thanks guys. 138. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, those engines wouldn't have blown if it had gone green. As weird as it sounds, running those engines hard, slowing them down for a while, then starting them up fast again is way worse than just going hard for a long time. All 3 engine failures came shortly after restarts. 139. 10andJoe posted: 06.03.2012 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #10 sponsor: Thank You Dick Berggren/TMone #33 sponsor: Hot Torque/Little Joe's Autos 140. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, there were four engine failures, not three. I don't know which three you're talking about. We know that Kurt Busch and Jeff Burton were two of those, but are you talking about Kyle Busch's engine failure or David Reutimann's as the third you were talking about? 141. DaleJrFan posted: 06.03.2012 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Saying Rick doesn't want Dale Jr to win is only my opinion which might be wrong. I just want Dale Jr to win a race again. Thats it. 142. 10andJoe posted: 06.03.2012 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #32, 36, 33 status: handling 143. Anonymous posted: 06.03.2012 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Laps 370-400 also led by Jimmie Johnson. 144. Rusty posted: 06.03.2012 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last season was one of the best I've ever seen, great finishes, suprising winners, the greatest championship finish ever. This year has just seemed so bland, long green flag runs without action, predictable winners, boring finishes. It just isn't as good as last year. 145. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Forgot about Reut. His is a result of low funds. But KyBu's was not terribly long after the restart after he had to go to the back. Its hard to explain, and I don't totally understand it myself, but it is worse for motors to run hard, slow down for a caution, then run hard again than it is to just run hard for a long time. That debris caution that screwed Gordon ruined the whole flow of the race and robbed us of a Johnson/Gordon duel to the finish. So once again, thank you NASCAR. 146. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.03.2012 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If there were 85,000 people at Dover today, I'll eat 85,000 hats. Hendrick appears to be the class of the field this year. Hopefully that means Gordon will get back to victory lane soon. 147. Mr X posted: 06.03.2012 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its heat cycle's DSFF, keeping a car reliable is all about temperature control. 148. Anonymous posted: 06.03.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fantastic day for Richard Petty Motorsports 149. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Mr X. I'm not always the best at explaining things, especially from a mechanical standpoint. But I think I have done a good job of explaining that I am pissed that NASCAR screwed us out of Gordon-Johnson III: The Rubber Match. Remember, Johnson won Round 1 (Martinsville '07) and Gordon won Round 2 (Atlanta '11). 150. LordLowe posted: 06.03.2012 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) with leadership like this Is it any wonder why NASCAR is in the toilet right now. 151. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't know what car you were talking about, DSFF, the 10 or 18. And also, had the debris caution not come out, there wouldn't have been a battle between Gordon and Johnson. Based on the way the race was going, Gordon would have won by about 6-8 seconds, if not more. He was pulling away from Johnson on much older tires just after Johnson pitted. His lead went from 3 seconds to 4.5 when he pitted. Had the caution for debris not come out and those two engines not blown, Gordon wins in a cakewalk. However, Kurt Busch's engine was beginning to give up long before it blew, so his would probably have blown anyway, but Burton's might not have had there been no late yellow flags. 152. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie had something left in the tank. They would have battled, and it would have been epic. Kurt's engine was going sour, but it wouldn't have grenaded like that, and probably would have gone after everyone pitted and the 24 and 48 were 1-2. 153. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure about that, DSFF. In the middle stages of the race, Gordon was just toying with Johnson before Johnson finally had enough and let Gordon by. And as soon as that happened, Gordon immediately started pulling away from Johnson. But the performance of those two cars between Johnson's next-to-last scheduled pit stop and Gordon's final scheculed pit stop was most telling of all. Gordon actually stretched it on Johnson, even on much older tires, and was 4.5 seconds ahead when he pitted. Had the race gone green and everyone pitted, I believe Gordon could have been as much as 8-10 seconds ahead. Unlike most recent races, Gordon's car was much faster and Gordon would have cruised to victory far ahead of anyone else. The only question would have been whether Gordon would have had enough fuel to make it to the finish, which has cost him at dover before. 154. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 06.03.2012 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The other thing to look at is Dale suffered burns in a sports car race in 2004 and it is a question if it effects him mentally on road courses since he claimed to see his father in 2004 when the sports car he raced in was on fire." For what it's worth, I believe the story was that he thought someone pulled him out of the car and was looking to thank the official/corner worker who did so. I don't think he ever claimed to see his father, but he thought someone pulled him out of the car when no one did so. "I agree I think Logano was going to win even if the lap cars would of gave him more room." I'll have to disagree... if you were looking at the lap times, Joey was making a run with his fresh tires, but it wasn't at a quick enough rate to close the entire gap. Not to mention, getting there and passing him would've been two different things. "ever think that the reason goonyer isn't winning is because he A(isn't a very good driver)" Yeah, the guy who finished 4th today and has more top 10s than anybody in the field this season isn't a very good driver. Jr can and will again if he keeps running the way he has. And, hate to break it to you, but a 15th place driver in Cup is a phenomenal driver when it comes to stock car racing. "NASCAR and Hendrick's checkbooks are one in the same." Can't believe people actually think that... pathetic. "fail jr had a top ten for crying out loud." He has the MOST TOP 10S IN THE CUP SERIES THIS YEAR, GENIUS. "such is the lack of depth of the fields these days." I donno man. Obviously a big wreck messed with today's race, but the field is ridiculously deep up to about 30th on any given week, which is no worse than it was 10 or 20 years ago. "Junior fans are very much analagous to Tim Tebow fans. Everything is a conspiracy. They are so blindly devoted to their man that no amount of objective proof will open their eyes to reality." Jr has a lot of fans so he has a lot of really ignorant fans, but there are ignorant fans for every driver ever. I'm not a Jr fan, but I'm tired of reading the same rehashed crap about how Junior Nation are the worst fans ever when it's practically the same across the board. There are so many Kyle Busch fans who blame everything but the driver any time Kyle doesn't dominate the race. And personally, most Jr fans I know are very realistic about their driver and don't think he's better than he is... which is a driver capable of winning on the cup level. And if you think Dale Jr doesnt have the heart, desire, competitive edge to win a race, I have no idea what youre watching. The guy wants to win and he WILL win if he keeps running like he has. Hopefully it's soon, and hopefully he gets more than one. The same goes for Truex, who I really want to see break his streak. "It appears as if Jimmie Johnson has gotten his golden horseshoe back." You don't win 57 races and 5 championships on luck. There's no golden horseshoe. It's a team that's AWESOME at what they do. And heck, just last week they lost a top 3 finish because of pit crew issues! If Jeff's race went to crap because of a left rear wheel, it has very little to do with luck and very much to do with his left rear tire carrier not tightening all the lugs enough. "Eric, the reason I'm not addressing Junior haters is because a)they are nowhere near as vocally irrational as his fans" Well, thankfully there aren't many of them on tihs site, but if you look around any given article comments section or message board, they are out in full force. There are countless people who literally believe that any time Jr does well, it's fixed. And personally, I think that the comments about Jr being "not a good driver" that you can even find all over here are just as RIDICULOUS as those who think he's the best driver and is getting screwed on equipment. The guy has been like 3rd in points all season long, has ~18 Cup wins, and yet he's just not a good driver. 155. Sean posted: 06.03.2012 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race was awful, especially that farcical debris caution. I've never quite yet seen NASCAR screw over a fan favorite in quite fashion. The long-standing history is HELPING OUT fan favorites illegitimately. I could understand if they threw a debris caution when Travis Kvapil was out of sequence or something, but NASCAR's recent history with debris cautions is waiting until the end of a sequence of pit stops before throwing one. The debris cautions in the past few years have been especially predictable for that reason. They usually didn't want to interfere with pit strategies as much as they could, and they usually like HELPING fan favorites whenever possible. That's why I'm puzzled. Gordon's one of their biggest cash cows and winning this race could have gotten him in the chase, and I think he certainly would have won without the debris caution. I'm with DSFF. Those engine failures wouldn't have been quite so explosive if there had been no caution. They probably would have happened, but would have been milder and wouldn't have necessitated later cautions. Gordon was robbed. Now certainly back in the late '90s when he was a golden boy he got plenty of biased calls like most superstars do, so I can't feel too bad. But aren't the debris cautions supposed to spice up the races? The ONLY way this very, very boring race could have been spiced up was to have it finish under green. I don't get this one... It was still better than Detroit. I don't know WHY IndyCar would take the consistent worst track on their schedule (whichever years they decide to run this race) and have it be the Indy followup and an ABC race, no less... A lot of people might have even been converts after THIS farce if the IndyCar race didn't end up being an even bigger farce... Sigh. 156. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Truth, there are some things I disagree with. I believe that Logano was going to catch and possibly catch Ryan Truex in the last three laps of Saturday's Nationwide race, not just because Logano's car was so fast but also because Truex was backing up to him in a hurry. Truex had abused his tires in an effort to get away from Logano, and so they were used up. Logano was catching Truex at nearly a quarter second per lap (and more on some laps) and was only a little more than one second behind, soat that pace, he would have caught and probably passed Truex with two or three laps to go anyway. You also said that the fields are deep to about 30th. I don't know what races you've been watching, but the depth of the fields in the Cup series don't have much more than 20 quality cars and teams. Just look at the finishing order from today's race. Jeff Burton blew an engine with 36 laps to go and still finished 22nd, and there were only four quality cars and teams behind him in the finishing order (Stewart, Edwards, Montoya, and Kyle Busch, and even saying that Montoya's team is a quality team is stretching it), and there were at least two teams that are not of high quality that finished ahead of him in the finishing order (Labonte and Ragan, and if you want to include the #1 of Jamie McMurray, you can, because that team is not a quality team now, either). The way I see it, only half the field is of good quality, far down from what it was about 5-7 years ago, when there were at least 30 quality cars that could contend under the right circumstances. Now there may be races coming up where not much more than 30 cars even attempt to run the distance (only 35 would have in this race, and there may be fewer than 35 attempt to run the full race in coming races). I only see about 21-24 quality cars and teams, and that may even be stretching it a bit. The quality of depth in the Cup series is lower than it's been in at least a decade, if not longer. 157. irony posted: 06.03.2012 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I appreciate character in a race track, but Dover should go back to asphalt. Concrete is too consistent. 158. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.03.2012 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, its like I said on the Belle Isle page, who would have ever thought Indy Car would be putting on better oval races and NASCAR is putting on better road course races (which naturally they only have two of on the schedule). Speaking of that, is anyone else looking forward to Sears Point? Can we just skip Michigan and Pocono? 159. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Irony, they can't do that, because if they did, within a few years, the track would tear up. That's why they concreted both Bristol and Dover in the first place. Because they knew that concrete would not come apart under the pressure of the cars. 160. cjs3872 posted: 06.03.2012 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, at Sonoma, they may as well hand Marcos Ambrose or Juan Montoya the trophy right now and not even run the race because it will be a shock if anyone outruns those two at either Sonoma or Watkins Glen. The only way I think they get beat is if pit strategy works against them. 161. Sean posted: 06.03.2012 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I responded to your post. Belle Isle was the worst CART circuit in the '90s and it's ALWAYS been the worst track for both CART and IRL whenever it has been on the schedule. The other road/street races this year (St. Petersburg, Barber, Long Beach, and Sao Paulo - especially Long Beach) were WAY better than this race was, and usually as good as the recent Cup road races in my mind. Judging today's IndyCar road racing by today's Detroit race (the worst race ever held at the worst street circuit ever imagined) would be like judging NASCAR oval racing by the 2000 restrictor plate race at Loudon... That's all I'm saying. The Detroit race was a farce, but IndyCar in general has been much better this season on ovals and road courses (and the cookie-cutter races in both CART and IRL have ALWAYS been better than NASCAR since the late '90s, as I mentioned over there). It's just a COLOSSAL buzzkill that it was the Indy followup and an ABC race, while most of the better races will be on NBC Sports, which no one is watching. 162. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One last thought before I retire for the night, a positive thought. Congratultions to Taylor Earnhardt. She got married this week. Hard to believe, seems like it was no time ago she was just a little thing constantly being held by Dale in victory lane. Now she is 23 years old and married. It made me feel a little sad for Dale cause he couldn't be there. I haven't felt sad for Dale in a long time. It took years for me to realize, but let's face it, he died healthy, happy, and extremely accomplished. I have felt nothing but positive thoughts over the past few years towards him, grateful for all the wonderful memories. But hearing his daughter got married really makes it home what was really lost when he died. But he would be very happy and proud of Taylor, and I know somewhere he has a big smile on his face for her. So congrats to her and I wish them the utmost happiness. 163. Mr X posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 158, I'm with you. 164. Red posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The quality of depth in the Cup series is lower than it's been in at least a decade, if not longer." Agreed. I see 26 teams that at least have a fighting chance under the right circumstances, but only 22 that have a realistic shot. Then, we probably have about eight full time teams that have ZERO chance at winning, and of course the host of S&P cars that I don't even count as being in the race. Real Contenders: HMS, Roush, JGR, Penske, SHR, RCR, MWR, RPM Fringe Contenders: EGR, JTG, FRR, Wood Bros No Chance: Phoenix, Front Row, Germain, TBR, BK Racing, Robinson-Blankeney Back in the early 2000's, we didn't see such a clear delineation of contenders and pretenders. There were great teams, good teams, average teams, below average teams, and pray-for-a-miracle teams, but everyone had SOME chance. In 2001 and 2002 in particular, it seemed as though any car was capable of running in the top five on occassion. Now, that is just a pipe dream. I don't know about you guys, but I only watch the scoring ticker down to about 27th place, then stop paying attention, because I know who the back 15 cars will be without even looking. I think it's time NASCAR lifted their four car limit per team. The sport is already controlled by the super teams, so why not let them put as many cars on the track as they want? I'd rather see a race with six Hendrick and six Roush cars than a bunch of field-fillers who do nothing more than take up space. 165. GDR posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) He didn't have a prayer of catching Johnson, but that was a great run for Harvick at one of his worst tracks. He ran up front, screwed up (which he said was his fault on the radio multiple times, even after Shane Wilson tried to take some blame), and worked his way back into his best finish ever at Dover. They've got some speed back in that car and can move on with some confidence. 166. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Earnhardt-Ganassi Racing (except for Montoya n the road courses), JTG-Daugherty Racing, Furniture Row Racing, and Wood Brothers Racing should also be put on the "no chance" list of yours, as well. And Richard Petty Motorsports should be moved down to the "fringe contenders" list of yours. And even some of those big front-line team have cars that should be on the frnige contenders list, such as the #31 RCR car, the #20 JGR car, and the #22 Penske Racing car. That makes fewer than 20 front line cars that contend each wek, if my math is right. And also remember that sone of these teams would be bigger if sponsorship was there. For instance, Roush would be running four cars, Gibbs might run four cars, Penske and Ganassi would probably each be running three, and Stewart-Haas would probably be running three full-time. And here are some other facts to back up my statements. The #47 car, which you put on the "fringe" list does not have a top-15 finish in a non-RP race this year (they were 14th in the Daytona 500), EGR has combined for three top tens this year in 26 starts, FRR's #78 car hasn't done any better than 14th, and Richard Petty Motorsports matched their total of top tens this season in this race alone. The lack of depth is even worse than you say it is, Red. The only pleasant surprise has been some of the runs that Phoenix Racing's #51 car has had, but even they are now tapering off, and the question remains as to how long they will be running full races, as they could be a candidate to do start-and-parks, or skip races all together if sponsorship doesn't come. And we could see Germain Racing's #13 car, FRM's #38 car, and both TBR cars (10 and 36) begin doing start-and-parks before too long because of sponsorship issues and the growing chasm between 35th and 36th in owner points. 167. Schroeder51 posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with #158...in my opinion Pocono and Michigan have been the worst two tracks on the whole schedule for years. They've hosted great Indy Car races (as they should, they were designed with Indy Cars in mind...well, I'm not so sure about Michigan, but there have been great Indy Car races there for sure) but host very dull and bland Cup races. Bring on Sears Point! 168. Schroeder51 posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fun Fact: I may be wrong, but I believe today NASCAR broke a record for the most consecutive races in a row the pole winner did not win. Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure our resident master statistician cjs3872 will be sure to do so). 169. 10andJoe posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >No Chance: Phoenix, Front Row, Germain, TBR, BK Racing, Robinson-Blankeney Do recall that Phoenix won at Talladega a few years ago, while Front Row and TBR have both had top 3's in plate races (the great equaliser) within the past year or so. 170. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, when was the last memorable road course race in NASCAR? The last one I can think of that was memorable was the Watkins Glen race in 2007, and prior to that, you'd have to go all the way back to the Sonoma race of 1995 to find a truly memorable road course event, and that was only because Mark Martin hit a patch of oil on a part of the track that's no longer even used. And courses do not lend themselves to good racing, and never have. The last road course race remembered for the actual racing was more than 20 years ago, the 1991 Sonoma race. 171. Stan posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's only one reason for Nascar to throw the "debris" caution with 60 laps to go, and that of course would be to help Jimmie Johnson win the race. Often times it can be argued that Nascar throws "debris" cautions to manufacture excitment but won't fly here. The plot of this race would have been FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR, FAR more intersting had it stayed green. The only reason to throw a "debris" caution in that spot when there was no debris is to help the #48 team by taking his biggest competition out of contention. Somebody here please answer me this - Why else would Nascar throw a "debris" caution when there was no debris? (And yes there was no debris. I was there and there was nothing significant on the race track. I watched the safety vehicles very carefully.) You can't say to bunch the field up to make the end of the race more "exciting" either becasue in this case that caution sucked ALL the drama out of the race. With this information, it's very hard not to conclude that Nascar wanted Jimmie Johnson to win this race. Please give me another reasonable explaination guys. I've loved this sport for two decades but this crap is really wearing on me. I may have just attended my last race. 172. Schroeder51 posted: 06.04.2012 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know...I've always found the road course races fun to watch, but it might just be me. Call me crazy if you want to, but I would rather have the road courses on the circuit over two more generic cookie cutter tracks. At the very least they are unique and I am more in favor of uniqueness in race tracks. That said, I'm well aware the drivers enjoy the cookie cutter tracks more and I openly admit I would probably not make a good NASCAR president were I given the opportunity (don't hold your breath on THAT happening...) 173. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, anybody can contend and win at Daytona and Talladega, and that's not just a recent trend. In 1973, Crawford Brothers Racing, which never scored a top 15 finish before or after the Talladega 500 that year, won the race with Dick Brooks driving in what was the final win for Plymouth in NASCAR's top series. Buddy Arrington actually had a chance to win at Talladega once, scoring a third place finish there in 1979. Even Trevor Boys had a chance to win a race at Talladega in 1984. And Daytona has been filled with surprises, as well. That's because of the utterly unpredictable nature of the racing at NASCAR's two fastest tracks. So the fact that bottom-tier teams can contend and occasionally even win at Talladega is no surprise, because it's been going on for 40 years. 174. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 1:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stan, read the second paragraph in post #116 (which I wrote). That will probably tell you why NASCAR threw a debris caution at that precise point in the race. 175. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 06.04.2012 - 1:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said in my previous post, obviously a big wreck messed with today's race. 22nd today being 36 laps down is not the norm this year or last year by any means. But I might have to agree with you after doing some research, as maybe there are a few less quality cars than there were in races in 1999, 2002, 2004, etc... But, I don't think it's a huge difference. We've got underdog teams now who can't really compete for wins, and it was just the same flashing back 10-15 years. We had Mansion Motorsports, a Petty Enterprises that was out to lunch for years, Brett Bodine's own car, independents like Shelmerdine, Shepherd's 89, Hover Motorsports' #80, Arnold Motorsports, etc. There were teams that struggled just like we have struggling teams today. You can draw comparisons. You could say that yesterday's Eel River Racing is today's Frank Stoddard's 32. There's always a pretty big fall-off in team quality once you get to about 25th. As far as Ryan Truex/Logano, I don't believe Logano was catching him a 1/4 second per lap. At least, NASCAR.com's live leaderboard didn't indicate that to me. I tend to watch the lap times and whatnot. It wasn't a given Logano win without the lapped traffic. I'd say the odds would've been in Ryan's favor. 176. Stan posted: 06.04.2012 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @post 174 If that's the case, that's a steaming pile of B.S. on Nascar's part and doesn't make me feel any better about the whole thing. I'm not even a Gordon fan, and there was a time where I would celebrate every one of his misfortunes, but what Nascar did to him today really rubbed me the wrong way. 177. murb posted: 06.04.2012 - 1:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can see why some of you guys may not be looking forward to Pocono and Michigan. I for one can't wait until Sonoma. The past four or five years up there have been especially great. But I think that Pocono and Michigan are shaping up to be some really intriguing races. Of course, I'm sure the action won't be as spectacular as we'll see at Sonoma, but think about it. We're gonna have the first ever 400 miler at Pocono on a freshly-paven surface. Hopefully we'll see some harder racing all throughout the event due to the shortened distance. And because of the repave, I really don't see anyone with an advantage for this race right now. I'm interested to see what will happen. And then, Michigan also has new pavement. And according to some of the drivers that already tested there, it's insanely fast. So once again, it will be interesting to see what Nascar does in response to the speeds. Again, Sonoma is the next race I think we all have circled on our calendars. It's always a highlight of the year. But you have to admit, these next two weeks do have some storylines. (Particularly Pocono more than Michigan, but you get my point.) 178. Smiff_99 posted: 06.04.2012 - 2:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^I'm with you, Murb.....I'm very anxious to see what kind of speeds they pull in the draft at Michigan. And I dunno about anybody else, but I thought the finish to the Watkins Glen race last year was incredible. Kez, Busch, and Ambrose almost entering the esses 3 wide, with Busch even dipping in the grass at one point.....that first lap after the final restart was awesome (and it was lightly raining, too!) 179. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 2:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But murb, the thing about Pocono is that they'l be pitting about every 25-28 laps for fuel and every 35 laps at Michigan for the same reason, if there are no tire problems. So at Pocono, there will be times that cars will seemingly be on pit road every other lap, making it feel like an Indianapolis 500 with the frequency of pitting, plus the drivers all want to pit under green because they won't lose a lap, particularly the leaders. So pit road may see as much action as the track, and if the speeds are up at Pocono by a great deal, that may make the fuel runs even shorter. And I think it's a certainty that NASCAR will have the restrictor plates handy, just in case speeds at Michigan get too high for NASCAR's liking. And if reports are true, we may see restrictor plates, or something like that at Michigan for a year or two until the pavement ages, which will slow the cars by itself enough for NASCAR to take potential engine restrictions off. 180. Spen posted: 06.04.2012 - 4:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: Last year, the #13 was only partially sponsored by GEICO. They paid for roughly 18 races worth of sponsorship, even though the logos would be on the car for every race. Thus creating the need for the #60 car, which S&P'd to cover expenses for the other 18 races. However, when the #60 missed the field, if GEICO didn't pay them for that week, then the #13 would have to park. However, if the recent commercials are anything to go by, it seems like GEICO's upped their support, and with Germain no longer having a Truck team to drain resources, they should be okay to go the distance all year. As for the #38, the only way I could see them parking is if, like in this race, Josh Wise fails to make the field. As long as the #26 is around to cover expenses, Jenkins can field the other two cars with little to no sponsorship (he's proved that quite often these past two and a half years.). And Wise has been quite good at qualifying on time, so Gilliland probably won't have to park much, if at all. 181. NMG posted: 06.04.2012 - 4:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey moderator, just a heads up, officially the race is "benefiting" with one t for the record. We love your site and keep up the good work. 182. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.04.2012 - 7:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since NASCAR doesn't want us watching fun duels to the finish between the best two drivers in the sport, we just have to go to YouTube and re-live the past, which is pretty much the theme of NASCAR lately. Idiots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUgnV8OPIYE&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_l0SGWjyzg 183. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 9:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, I hope you're right about Gilliland. The only reason I said they might do that has to do with the growing chasm between 35th and 36th in points, which is now more than a full race, and continues to grow. That may be one reason why Tommy Baldwin is doing start-and-parks on occasion with the #36 car, though that is not happening with much frequency this year. Now that's not the reason Dave Blaney went out so early in this race, but he has parked the #36 car in a couple of races this year. The #10 is a different story, since that is a split operation between two organizations, Tommy Baldwin Racing and Stewart-Haas Racing. And as for the #13 car of Germain Racing, I hope you're right about that as well, but they always ran the full race in the first third of the season, and then see where they stood at that point. But with a more than 50-point gap betwen 35th and 36th, and those attempting to qualify for all the races below 35th in points all being start-and-parks with rare exception, there's no real reson for those from 30th on down in points to even try to run the full races if sponsorship is limited. That's why I brought that up. And there would not have been a duel yesterday between Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson if there had been no cautions late in that race. How can there be when one driver is a third of a lap ahead of the other, and had the race played out they way it looked like it was going to, Gordon would have been about a third of a lap ahead of Johnson, as his car was much faster. I believe some of the other drivers knew it, as well. 184. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, does anyone have any doubts now that Roger Penske made a terrible hire when he hired A.J. Allmendinger to drive the #22 car? Any doubts I had about that opinion were squelched yesterday when Aric Almirola (yes, Aric Almirola) finished sixth and ran in the top ten for the entire second half of the race, while Allmendinger languished in the back of a reduced pack (he ran 16th-20th all day in a race with only 25 cars in it, for all intents and purposes on what has been one of his best tracks, if not his best track). Like I said, I don't know what others see in Almendinger, a list that includes Mark Martin, but if yesterday's race proved nothing else about Allmendinger in NASCAR, it proved that he just isn't good enough in stock cars. Aside from one of the luckiest second place finishes I can ever remember, his best finish this year has been 15th place, three times in a car that was a race winner a year ago. Allmendinger be very well be on his way out at Penske, and yesterday's lack of performance at what should have been one of his best tracks is proof that Penske hired the wrong guy. If Allmendinger doesn't win one of the two road course events, in which he should be considered one of the favorites, and with Penske switching to Ford next year, look for Penske to nab one of Roush's development drivers next year to drive the #22 car, unless Allmedinger's performance dramatically improves. 185. Rusty posted: 06.04.2012 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Phoenix Racing is in no real danger of start and parking this year. They need sponsorship to get better funded equipment, but they have enough money to run the whole distance. Some random thoughts: -I don't feel bad for Jeff Gordon's hard luck this year, back in his prime, people accused him of having a "golden horseshoe shoved up his ass" like Jimmie now. -I hate Pocono and may not even make an attempt to watch next weekend. I'm looking forward to the races after that though, Michigan is underrated and I'm probably going to the Nationwide race at Daytona coming up. 186. Rocky Lore posted: 06.04.2012 - 10:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I technically would not call Stephen Leicht a start and park driver. His team did make repairs. His team did complete laps and improve their position. Unfortunately, when you're over 100 laps down with the race not even halfway complete, parts falling off the car, and failing to maintain a minimum speed, it's time to park it for the day. And I doubt that TBR, Germain, or the #34 and #38 Front Row cars will start and park. They just need some better luck on tracks not called Daytona or Talladega. 187. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 10:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rocky Lore, the #33 team did park at Charlotte. I still say things are different there now that Joe Falk owns that team. And also, of the cars you mentioned, the #34 did have good fortune go their way yesterday by not getting in that big wreck, but of the 21 healthy cars that finished, they were last. Of the cars you mentioned (10, 13, 34, 36, 38), only one of them, Germain's #13, has a driver of some quality, though David Ragan is doing better than a lot of people expected, given the poor quality of his team. When he was at Roush, Ragan dragged his team down, but not at Front Row Motorsports, it's the other way around, as his team is dragging him down. This year is proving that he, and not A.J. Allmendinger, should have been Penske's hire in the #22 car, and yesterday proved that without a shadow of a doubt. Ragan's move to miss that wreck was, without a doubt, the move of the race, because cars were crashing all around him, but the move he made got him through unscathed. 188. ch posted: 06.04.2012 - 10:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't believe that the 33 start and parked yesterday. He had tons of crash damage and was in a similar position with the 32 and 36. As for the start and park situation, FRM will not ever park the 38, ever. Back in 2010 Jenkins ran 3 cup teams completely out of his own pocket after Conway left. The team has stated on the Facebook page that the 38 is here to race, and why not, they have more sponsorship on both cars than they have ever had. Their finishes are close to the 34 and sometimes better. If not for the wreck, I think the 38 could have easily ran with or outperformed the 34 this week. TBR has been known to be a S&P team, just look at 2009 / 2010. The 10 car will never park because of the partnership with SHR for Danica. The 36 however has a large cushion on 36th place and will be a S&P for a majority of races that they are unsponsored. Golden corrall has stepped up for a couple races and Seal Wrap has a great partnership with the Blaneys. But there are still a large number of unsponsored races and Tommy just doesn't have the means to run all of those out of his pocket. The 13 situation is kind of an unknown for me as Geico announced that they would sponsor only 20 races this year, a small increase from the 18 last year. With that being said, Geico has started to use the team in their commercials. Also with the season already being 1/3 of the way done, I just don't see the team S&Ping for over 1/2 of the remaining races. Like I said, confusing. On another note, I feel REALLY bad for the 79 team this week. Go Green Racing has really fallen off on the Nationwide side and I don't believe that cup was the right option for them. They started the season hoping to run 2 full Nationwide teams and a part time cup team. Now their one full time nationwide team, 39, is outside the top 30. Instead of the second full time nationwide car, they have a partnership to run the 08 when Randy Hill doesn't. And that car is now out of the top 30 as well. Their cup team was supposed to be driven by Tim Andrews, not as a S&P. But now, with Andrews DNQ, Scott Speed parking, and this wreck yesterday, I don't really see that happening. Just kind of sad to see them fall off this year. 189. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 11:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ch, I agree that the #33 didn't S&P yesterday, and I never said they did S&P yesterday. I said they did that at Charlotte. And the #38 team is there to race at the back with the #34, whih has outperformed the #38 all year. And the situation with the #13 is cloudy, could be even more so if Penske decides to make a change with the #22 car and Casey Mears is one of those rumored to be A.J. Allmendnger's replacement there, but that's a ways down the line. Remember that not only does Penske have a relationship with the Mears family, but the Mears family also has a relationship with Pennzoil through the efforts of Casey's uncle Rick, who won two of his four Indianapolis 500s in a Pennzoil-sponsored car. And yes, the #36 has parked a lot in the four years that Tommy Baldwin has had that team, and he's not going to flat-out park the #10 car, due to the situation with Stewart-Haas Racing. And does anyone really think the #32 is going to S&P, because Frank Stoddard has, to this day, never done a S&P with the #32 car, which is inside the top 35, as well. If they begin doing S&Ps, that's one team that wasn't even on my radar as far as that's concerned, though that team is not that heavily sponsored either, and was completely unsponsored for this past weekend's race. 190. Anonymous posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ragan's move to miss that wreck was, without a doubt, the move of the race, because cars were crashing all around him, but the move he made got him through unscathed." Ragan's did a great job avoiding the wreck but don't forget the moves David Stremme made to avoid the carnage. He was going to park anyway but Stremme was further back in the field than Ragan and had to avoid more of the crash. 191. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 12:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #190, Stremme's move was a very good one, too, but as you said, he was going to park it anyway, so the move he made to avoid the carnage did not have an impact on his day in quite the same fashion as Ragan's move did. But you do make a good point there. 192. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.04.2012 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sears Point has taken over Bristol's place as the madness race. If I didn't live 3500 miles away, I would love to go there and get a seat right there at the top of the hill in front of Turn 2. It has been a fun race to watch for a while. Maybe not always for the lead (huge exception: 2009), but there is always somebody in the pack that has got up in the running order due to pit strategy with a much faster car behind them, initially trying to execute a clean pass, but getting blocked, and losing patience while the cars behind them start pressuring them, leading to some less finesse in making passes. And as far as no memorable races since 1995, I have to disagree. First off, with the exception of the last 5 laps, the 1995 races wasn't very good. It wasn't until somebody dumped rear end grease all over the track that it got good. You had Earnhardt chasing Mark, and both were SLIPPING AND SLIDING all over the place. So much fun watching the two former dirt trackers sliding all over the place for 11 turns (back when they went through the fun as hell carosel). But the first 69 laps? Zzzzzzz. But ever since they redid the awful shortcut they ran from '98-'00 giving two additional passing zones it has been fun. Tony and Robby fighting it out in '01 with the lapped car of Harvick causing havoc. 2002 had some fun battles, followed by us fans getting our hopes WAY up thinking "Oh my God, Jerry Nadeau is gonna win for Petty Enterprises!" followed by his heartbreaking rear end failure (possibly the 2nd most brutal defeat this millenium, only behind Mark losing the '07 Daytona 500), followed by the nostalgia of seeing Ricky Rudd in a familiar place, a road course victory lane. 2003 had the ultimate "golden horseshoe" moment (Kenseth losing a tire right in front of pit road) as well as controversy with The Other Gordon being criticized by The Real Gordon and his teammate Harvick. Gordon stunk it up in '04, but '05 had a fun race ending battle between the Old Guard of road racing (Rudd) and the new dominator of the road (Smoke). '07 was a let down in the end with fuel mileage deciding it, but it had some fun racing between the best two active road racers, Gordon and Smoke. '08 was mostly uneventful, but '09 had the epic battle between Kasey and Smoke, as Kasey held Stewart off on 5 late breath taking restarts. 2010 had the "Marcos, what the hell are you doing?" moment where JJ crossed off the final item on his bucket list while Jeff and Brad had a personal contest with each other to see who could tear the most shit up. And 2011 was pure madness, the fun kind. Vickers vs Smoke (the highlight of Brian's career), JPM spinning people out before roughing Brad up and getting pwned as a result while Kurt had a road course breakthrough. Yes, Sears Point rules. 193. murb posted: 06.04.2012 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, Sears Point rules." Totally agree. I'm just 17, but I've been watching Nascar since I can remember. One of the first races I do remember is the 1999 race there. Not necessarily for the racing, but the wrecks (obviously, when you're 4 years old, that's what you're going to remember the most. But since I've grown up, I realized that Sonoma has probably the best and most action all year long.) First, Steve Park had that crazy flip up in turn one. And then Ken Schrader did the same thing a little later in the race. Another thing I remember about the race is that John Andretti had an epic drive from the back of the field into the top five. And then Gordon just spanked them that day as well. So that track definitely has a place in my heart as one of my personal favorites. 194. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I mentioned that the 1995 Sonoma race itself was unspectaular until Mark Martin ran into oil on a part of the track that isn't even used anymore. Actually, the last memorable race there I can remember was the third one, the 1991 race, the finish of which is one of the most bizarre in the history of the sport. The race there this month is the 24th at Sonoma. As for faster cars being stuck back in the field during the last part of road course races because of strategy, you can thank Geoff Bodine and Paul Andrews for that. Bodine and Andrews were the first to figure out the "running the race backwards" strategy at Watkins Glen in 1996, when they decided to pit every 30 laps, no matter the situation. They knew that if they pitted under green and everyone else pitted under caution that they'd be leading because all the cars that pit under caution are placed behind the ones that didn't. That resulted in Bodine's final Cup win. And as for what happened in 2002, which gave Ricky Rudd his final victory. Just think of it as the gods paying Rudd back for what happened in 1991 at Sonoma. Then, as you mentioned, Rudd nearly won there again for the Wood Brothers in 2005, and had he, that would have made that race memorable, but because Stewart won, it became unremarkable. A year later, it was Terry Labonte's turn to nearly pull of a huge upset at Sonoma, but was passed late by his old teammate and lost second in the last corner to Ryan Newman what would be Terry's last hurrah. But for the most part, the races there have been unremarkable. And now with regulars from road race dominated series in NASCAR, a lot of the surprise element road racing was once known for, has also been removed, though that was clearly not the case in 2009, when Kasey Kahne had one of the most emotion-filled wins in years, bringing Richard Petty back to victory lane (that may have been payback for what happened to Petty's team in 2002). But the racing itself has not been memorable. The first two-thirds of the race usually goes without much incident, then the last third of the race is a battle of survival. Watkins Glen has, to me, featured more memorable moments over the years. 195. 10andJoe posted: 06.04.2012 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pocono entry list is out. 44 cars. -Sorenson in the 32 -Compton in the 74 196. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.04.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Road courses are glorified ovals now. Until 7 or 8 years ago, road racing was a special talent that only a few had. Now even Carl Edwards does well on road courses. 197. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seven or eight years ago, NicoRosbergFan? Try about 17 or 18 years ago, which is about the time that a tramsmission was developed which allowed the drivers to shift gears without using the clutch. Now, many drivers who do well on ovals also do well on road courses, but not all of them. Drivers like Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart dominated on the road courses for many years because of their ability to slide the cars on a flat surface, collecting 16 wins between them. That's why Ryan Newman has done better than a lot of people expected him to do, and why Kasey Kahne has done well at Sonoma. Also, Sonoma and Watkins Glen are two completely different road courses. Sonoma is more of a technical challenge where driving is concerned, while Watkins Glen is more the speed and aerodynamics road course, where risk taking is rewarded more. Taking those same risks at Sonoma often leads to disaster. 198. Dave#38fan posted: 06.04.2012 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) breaking news: kurt busch is suspended until june 13th, i'm assuming this means he won't be allowed to race pocono? good. i hope james finch takes the hint and finds a permanent replacement. 199. New 14&88 Fan posted: 06.04.2012 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In Kurt's defense, Bob Pockrass did ask a very loaded question. But once again Kurt's shown that he's his own worst enemy, everytime he appears in front of a camera he makes an ass of himself. If getting canned from two of the best teams in the sport hasn't clued him in that he needs to check his emotions than I don't have much faith that sitting out Pocono will have any effect. 200. Dave#38fan posted: 06.04.2012 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i like bob pockrass, but yes, i'll admit that he baited him with the question. however, if kurt keeps giving the media the reaction they want, of course they will keep provoking him. he may have been baited with the question, but no one forced him to TAKE the bait. he should have just smiled and plugged his sponsor like every other driver does. he needs to act less like a human being and more like a nascar driver (boring and vanilla). once he catches on to that the media will leave him alone. 201. 10andJoe posted: 06.04.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To be fair, what sponsor would Kurt be plugging? ;) ...but yes, it takes two to tango, and Kurt needs to learn when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em (being from Vegas you'd think he'd already know...). The "nod, smile, and back away slowly" method works (almost) every time, he has nobody to blame but himself for choosing to stick around and cross swords. The Busch brothers have metric craptonnes of talent. It's a shame they choose to waste it. 202. 10andJoe posted: 06.04.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course, this also begs the question: who drives the 51 this week? Let the Jeopardy music start playing! 203. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.04.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully that is the final nail in the coffin of Kurt getting another well funded Cup ride. At some point enough is enough, and with Kurt that point passed a long time ago, he is just so damn talented people coulnd't help but hire him. Even after a career of embarrassments, which were compiled into a video spanning ONE HOUR AND FIFTEEN MINUTES, he still has shown his ass this year. This should force him to be crossed of JGR's list of replacements for the pathetic Logano. Ultimately Sears Point enjoyability is an opinion, and I respect yours. All I can say is I love it. As far as races before '95, you had yet another epic Rusty/Rudd road course battle in '89. 1991 speaks for itself as Rud got the lifetime achievement black flag (Earnhardt got this in the '93 Coke 600 only there were still 100 miles left for a pissed off Dale to unlap himself and tear back through the field). 1992 had The Epic Comeback by Ernie, and the racing at the end of the 1993 version was simply awesome. 204. NazRacePhan posted: 06.04.2012 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SOPNSOR: #48: Lowe's/Madagascar 3 (??) 205. murb posted: 06.04.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Of course, this also begs the question: who drives the 51 this week?" Just for the hell of it, I'd love to see Awesome Bill get the nod. He drove it a little bit last year when it was still the 09 car. Plus, we all know how Bill is at Pocono. By the way, DSFF, is that video your talking about the "Rageaholic" video on Youtube? Because if so, I've seen it too. It's unbelievable how many incidents he's been in over the course of his career. Even in his early years he was starting stuff in the Truck series. Including dumping Mike Wallace for the win at the first ever Dover truck race. I too think Kurt's career is officially done in the Cup series. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if he just left Nascar all together. He's done a ton of drag racing before, so maybe now he'll just go to the NHRA and continue on with his incidents. (Kurt and John Force in a shouting match? Comedy gold!!!!) But who knows, he could stick around. Maybe he'll just go back to the Truck series for the rest of his career like a lot of other former Cup guys have done. But there's no way that he's gonna get another top of the line Cup ride. There's just no way... 206. Talon64 posted: 06.04.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson picks up his 57th career Sprint Cup Series victory and 2nd in 13 races in 2012, after having a career-low 2 wins in all of 2011. Both wins have come in the last 3 races. Johnson ties Bobby Allison and Richard Petty for the most wins all time at Dover with 7, and 4th win in the last 7 races there. It's the 7th straight race at Dover where he's led the most laps, leading 1,638 of 2,800 laps (58.5%) over that span. He's now 3rd all time in laps led at Dover with 2,275; Jeff Gordon's 2nd with 2291 and Bobby Allison holds the record with 2,800. Kevin Harvick gets his first top 5 in 8 races and just his 3rd top 5 of the season, but two of them are runner-up finishes. 2nd at Dover is his 23rd career runner-up finish, tying him with Dick Rathman for 30th all time. It's Harvick's 3rd top 5 in 23 Dover starts, his first in 12 races. But it's his 8th straight top 20 finish, including 4 top 10's (9.9 avg fin). Dover becomes the 7th different track that Harvick has 10+ top 10's at; Richmond has the most with 14. Matt Kenseth ties Roush teammate Greg Biffle for the most top 5's so far in 2012 with 7. It's his 7th top 10 in the last 8 races, including 5 top 5's, with the other finish being an 11th (5.75 avg fin). Kenseth's 13 top 5's and 18 top 10's at Dover are his most at any track, and only Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon has more of each among active drivers. It's his 8th top 5 in the last 9 races at Dover (4.8 avg fin). Dale Earnhardt Jr. becomes the 34th Sprint Cup driver to reach 100 career top 5's, and ties Geoffrey Bodine for 33rd all time. His 5 top 5's in 2012 have already surpassed the 4 he had in all of 2011, and he also picked up his series-leading 10 top 10 of the season. It's just Dale Jr.'s 8th top 10 in 25 Dover starts and first in 9 races. But it's his 5th top 5, 4 of them top 3's. Dale Jr. had led 6 of his first 8 Dover starts for 364 laps but has led just 4 of the last 17 for 4 laps. Clint Bowyer picks up just his 2nd top 5 of the season (4 in all of 2011) but has 3 top 10's and an 8.4 avg fin over the last 5 races. It's his first top 5 in 13 starts at Dover but his 6th top 10, including 3 straight. Aric Almirola picks up his 2nd top 10 of 2012 and 4th in 48 career Cup starts. It's his 2nd best career finish, only behind his 4th at Homestead in 2010. It's his 4th straight top 20 finish, during which he's gone from 23rd to 17th in the standings. This was Almirola's first Cup start at Dover, a track that he won at in the Trucks in 2010. Martin Truex Jr. picks up just his 2nd top 10 in the 5 races since his runner-up finish at Kansas (15.4 avg fin). It's just his 2nd top 10 in his last 8 starts at Dover. After starting the season with back-to-back top 10's, then going 8 straight without one, Joey Logano has 2 in the last 3 races. It's his 3rd top 10 in 7 Dover starts (19.1 avg fin). Kasey Kahne extended his career-best top 10 streak to 7 races, which is also the longest streak by any driver so far in 2012. It's his 5th top 10 in 17 Dover starts (21.8 avg fin) but his 4th in the last 7 races. After going the first 10 races of 2012 without a top 10, Marcos Ambrose now has 2 in the last 3 races. It's his 3rd top 10 at Dover, tied with Bristol for his most at an oval track (18.0 avg fin in 8 starts). Mark Martin earned his series-leading 3rd pole of 2012 and 54th of his Cup career. He's just 1 back of Bill Elliott for 7th all time. 207. 18fan posted: 06.04.2012 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I loved the Bodine/Irvan/Rudd battle in 1993 and then the one lap shootout with the big wreck behind them. Those three going three wide into the hairpin was just awesome. 208. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it's nice that some mention all the memroies from the races at Sonoma, but there's one problem. Those all occurred in the event's first five years, which were run on the track's original layout (as were the bore-athons in 1994 and '95 until the surprise at the end, and '96 with Rusty stealing one on a restart, as well as Mark Martin's one-sided win in 1997). This year's race at Sonoma is the 24th, the 19th since any of the races that those like DSFF and 18fan mentioned in recent posts, and the 15th run on the current layout that was first used in 1998. 209. 10andJoe posted: 06.04.2012 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Kurt and John Force in a shouting match? Comedy gold!!!! If we could put images in our posts here, right here you'd see the one of Fry saying SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY! 210. 10andJoe posted: 06.04.2012 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...also, it appears James Finch is ROYALLY pissed off at Kurt: '[Finch] didn't sound like a man convinced the arrangement could or would work. "If he's going to kill himself, I'm not going to be in the airplane with him," Finch said by phone. "If that's what he's planning on doing, I am going to get out."' 211. jr88fan posted: 06.04.2012 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a possible list of drivers for the 51 Awesome Bill Brian Vickers Some Nationwide driver (no Nationwide Series this week) Terry Labonte or Ken Schrader (as they aren't in the 32) 212. LordLowe posted: 06.04.2012 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few years from now Kurt Busch will be living under a bridge holding up a sign that says Will Work For Food. 213. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr88fan, could that Nationwide driver be someone like Justin Allgaier or even Cole Whitt, who's not on the entry list in the #74 Cup car. Both have ties to Hendrick Motorsports, where Phoenix racing is getting their equipment. If Finch does go down that road, it would have to be a Chevrolet driver, and I doubt it would be one of Childress' drivers. If he wanted to go with another Cup veteran, Brian Vickers, while an intriging possibility, especially considering his record at Pocono, would probably not be available, since he drives Michael Waltrip's #55 car in the races that Mark Martin doesn't drive it, due to a possible manufacturer conflict. I don't think Bill Elliott would want to go back with Finch, although there's an interesting tie-in to Hendrick Motorsports there through his son Chase. Terry Labonte and Ken Schrader would both be interesting options because of their history with Hendrick Motorsports and Chevrolet, but again, both share time in the #32 ford, so their might be a manufacturer conflict with either the elder Labonte or Schrader. Also, with Phoenix racing in the top 35, there's no need to put either Labonte or Schrader in the car, since they don't ned the champion's provisional. Another possibility for James Finch is to put someone like Frank Kimmel, the greatest midwestern stock car champion ever, in his car, or some other ARCA driver with some experience, since ARCA is going to be there at Pocono, as they always are with the Cup series when it travels to the tricky triangle, and the track time the ARCA drivers have could be valuable, even if it is with a different tire. So there are a number of interesting possibilities if Finch cuts ties with Kurt Busch, or if Busch is suspended by either Finch or NASCAR. 214. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That should have said, in regards to the championship provisional, Labonte or Bill Elliott, not Ken Schrader. My mistake. But again, the #51 car doesn't need that. Another possibility is that, if Kurt Busch is suspended or released, that the #51 car, since it has no sponsor, may not even show up, or do a start-and-park. 215. irony posted: 06.04.2012 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, Allmendinger has performed well below my expectations, while Almirola has been a nice surprise at times. Makes me wonder if I'm also overrating Ambrose. DSFF always makes me think of things I never notice myself. Sears Point really is the new Bristol. That would be a fun road trip to make, from NC to San Fran. My luck I'd break down in nowhere, Wyoming. I enjoy both of the roadies, and wish there were more. 216. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Irony, he's performed well below expectations for one reason. He isn't that good. One of the problems he had with Petty, and it really came to light with Aric Almirola's run this week, is that Allmendinger is hard on equipment, while Almirola is easier on equipment, and the results show it. I think, although he's had some terrible luck which ended some great runs earlier this year, Marcos Ambrose has the same weakness. Just look at the drivers that have had success with Petty over the last 15 years, and you'll notice a common thread. Bobby Hamilton, Sr., John Andretti, Kasey Kahne, and now Aric Almirola are all easy on equipment, while Ambrose and Allmendinger are hard on equipment. And here's something to chew on. We all know that Aric Almirola struggled in the Nationwide Series last year. Could it be that he struggled because his particular driving style does not favor the Nationwide car, which you have to run as hard as you can on every lap, while his driving style may favor the Cup car more. Remember that Almirola finished fourth for Petty in the 2010 season finale at Homestead, and while he drove for Bobby Ginn, once led 55 laps in a race at Martinsville. It could be that Almirola's ability to conserve his equipment and his conservative driving style just makes him better suited to the longer Cup races. The one thing about Almirola has always been that he usually brings the car home in one piece, and takes whateve the cars gives him on a particular day, instead of trying to get more than what is there. In other words, Almirola may end up as one of those drivers that's a better Cup driver than a Nationwide Seires driver. 217. 10andJoe posted: 06.04.2012 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >if Busch is suspended by either Finch or NASCAR. Busch has already been suspended for the weekend. 218. cjs3872 posted: 06.04.2012 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, when I wrote that, I did not know that Kurt Busch had been suspended by NASCAR. Anyone have a guess on who his replacement will be? My money is on someone like Justin Allgaier, Cole Whitt, or even Danica Patrick, since they all fit what in my mind is the main criteria, which is being a current Chevrolet driver in the Nationwide Series with ties to Hendrick Motorsports, where the equipment that Finch runs comes from. But al three of those drivers are inexperienced. Elliott Sadler may be out of the mix due to him driving for Richard Childress, and other capable replacements like Brian Vickers, Ken Schrader, and Terry Labonte would have potential manufacturer conflicts, particularly Vickers. Bill Elliott is a potential candidate, but I din't think he'll drive Finch's car because of his past history with Finch. But Elliott does have ties to Hendrick Motorsports through his son Chase. 219. 10andJoe posted: 06.04.2012 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd say Frank Kimmell would be out, as he's a Toyota driver. (And boy does that sound weird instead of "Ford"!) But here's an off the wall suggestion: Bobby Gerhart. 220. cjs3872 posted: 06.05.2012 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's a good idea, as well. Bobby Gerhardt actually ran some Cup races back in the 1980s, and tried to qualify for the Daytona 500 more than once, but never did so. And gerhart has ties to Hendrick Motorsports. However, I'm not sure the manufacturer situation would pertain to ARCA drivers, but just to drivers in the three major NASCAR series. But I could be wrong about that. 221. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.05.2012 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would be pissed too if I were Finch. He really put his neck on the line for Kurt and swallowed the bad publicity that the mere mention of the name Kurt Busch brings after 13 years of being a dick publically. All he's done is wreck car after car and bring even more bad publicity. After all these years he has proven his talent is not worth all the heartburn he causes. I'd shitcan him. 222. cjs3872 posted: 06.05.2012 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, let's say he did release Kurt Busch. Who would he replace him with, or would the team even race the rest of the year? I think one of the reasons the team has been racing instead of doing S&P's, despite not having a sponsor, is because of having a driver of Kurt's caliber. If Busch is let go, I wouldn't expect to see the #51 car run a full race the rest of the year, so it would be academic who they replace him with. 223. 10andJoe posted: 06.05.2012 - 1:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, do recall they ran full races with Landon Cassill last year. I'd expect Finch to go to a limited schedule before they went S&Ping. Also: Saidheads rejoice, Boris will be in the 32 for the road course races. 224. cjs3872 posted: 06.05.2012 - 1:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) They did for quite a while, 10andJoe, but late in the season, then did some S&Ps toward the end of the season. And why would they go back to a partial schedule? As of now, they're more than two full races ahead of the 35th place team and more than three full races ahead of the 36th place team. Staying in the top 35 gets them a guaranteed spot in the Daytona 500 next year. If they were the last of the start-and-parks to park, they could get 6-8 points in every race they run, because that's how many S&P's are running in each race, and they might even get 10 points in some races by being the last of the S&P's to fall out because of the number of S&P's there are. 225. 10andJoe posted: 06.05.2012 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >then did some S&Ps toward the end of the season One, possibly, at Martinsville, and that's it... >And why would they go back to a partial schedule? Because up until 2010 that's what Phoenix Racing always did? 226. cjs3872 posted: 06.05.2012 - 2:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not always. There were times when it looked like there would be short fields that they would show up to do a S&P, but they usually did run a partial schedule through 2008. Then in 2009, they did S&P's except when Brad Keselowski drove for them. That's because they ran Hendrick-prepared Chevrolets with Keselowski, but ran Dodges in the other races when they did S&P's. And also let's not forget that if they cut back to a partial schedule if they let Kurt Busch go, that could have ramifications for NASCAR, because it would get the entry list closer to that 43 number for some races. Remember that there's a clause in the TV deal that says that if less than a full field is entered for a Cup race, that NASCAR does not get a substantial portion of the TV money for that particular weekend, something that actually reared it's ugly head as far back as 2002. 227. 10andJoe posted: 06.05.2012 - 4:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And that, in turn, is harder to make up then it was in past years, when if there was a threat of a short field NASCAR would recruit from the ARCA garage at tracks like Pocono and Michigan to have them roll their car over to the Cup side and take a shot; the Winston West cars were 'compatible' too (both ways, to Mike Wallace benifit at California in '97) but where they were relevant they were already combination races... 228. joey2448 posted: 06.05.2012 - 4:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #203 DSFF - I've seen that Rageoholic video too! Hahaha I thought that was just some random video no one watches, but it seems many of the regulars here are checking out the same stuff, lol! About Kurt being suspended, I thought it was kind of harsh at first, but it's just what he needs. I love how every time Kurt has started with a new team, he puts on the same act! "Oh this is a new beginning for me, and this team really suits my style. The old Kurt is gone and the new Kurt is here to win races!" Really, Kurt? It gets old after a while. Can't wait for Pocono, Michigan, Sonoma and Daytona coming up!!! Should (hopefully) be some good races! 229. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.05.2012 - 6:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like the Allgaier choice. Give him a chance to show what he can do. Beating the Cup guys in the NWide race at Bristol was no joke. Remember, Brad K doing the same thing in the Summer of '08 is really what opened a lot of people's eyes to him. 230. Kyle posted: 06.05.2012 - 7:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) it won't be vickers, at least not this weekend. he is in france driving the 24 hours of le mans for rob kauffman's team. 231. LordLowe posted: 06.05.2012 - 7:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe NASCAR should Schedule A race at the Burke Lakefront Airport In Cleveland. 232. Kyle posted: 06.05.2012 - 7:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) it could be sadler this week. i know he drivers for rcr and phoenix has a hendrick connection but remember in the 500 sadler had hendrickcars.com as an associate sponsor. 233. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.05.2012 - 7:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, let's not have NASCAR prostitute that race's legacy. 234. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.05.2012 - 7:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle, Le Mans is the 16-17, so Brian is available, but he drives for Toyota anyway. I say let Brendan Gaughan drive it. He drives for Chevy, plus he knows this track better as far as Cup races are concerned. 235. Spen posted: 06.05.2012 - 7:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My heart wants it to be Bill in the #51. My head says it'll be Whitt. 236. Dave#38fan posted: 06.05.2012 - 10:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @NicoRosbergFan it can't be brendan gaughan he is in texas for the truck race friday night. no one is currently scheduled to pull cross country double duty this week. 237. cjs3872 posted: 06.05.2012 - 11:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like we were all wrong on who the driver of the #51 would be this weekend. It's been announced that David Reutimann will drive the car with ve Blaney moving to the #10 and Tony Raines probably doing a start-and-park in the #36. That also makes sense because Reutimann has Hendrick Motorsports ties through the efforts of Danica Patrick in the #10 car, as he drives the car in races that Danica doesn't drive it in. 238. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.05.2012 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reut it is. Happy for him, glad to see somebody in the garage still recognizes and respects Reut's ability behind the wheel. 239. cjs3872 posted: 06.05.2012 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Finch knows that unless something goes wrong, that Reutimann is going to bring it back in one piece. The question would be, if Busch is released by Finch, who would get the ride, or would it be a shared ride? 240. Schroeder51 posted: 06.05.2012 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd just like to comment on this whole Kurt Busch situation...I thought when Kurt was fired by Penske and hired to drive James Finch's car, driving for a lower-budget team would humble him and calm him down. Thanks Kurt, you've made me look like an idiot for thinking that. Kurt's NASCAR career is probably going to be over at the end of this year. My only question is...will Kyle be following this same path in the future? I have a hard time believing Kyle has cleaned up his act after the Texas meltdown last year...I haven't heard much about a "new mature Kyle Busch" this year. What really gets me is that Kurt and Kyle are doubtless two of the most talented drivers who have ever raced in NASCAR and they are both choosing to piss away their careers with their horrible attitudes. If I were James Finch, I'd fire Kurt and keep Reutimann in the #51. At least he doesn't have Kurt's horrendous attitude. 241. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 06.05.2012 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad Rooty is getting another shot but if Finch does fire Kurt (James, if your reading this, i'd seriously think about it. Yes Kurt could proably get you a win this year but is all the headaches worth it?) Who is going to be in the RC races? I'd be sure that Rooty will drive the ovals but what about the Roadies if it comes to that? I can already think of few names off the top of my head. (that is if Finch fires Kurt) 242. Talon64 posted: 06.05.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kurt gets fired then Finch will probably have different drivers in the car. But I'd hope that Cole Whitt would get some races in the #51, since there's some shared association with HMS there. 243. cjs3872 posted: 06.05.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another thing about Kurt Busch. He's never really had to earn anything. Everything's been handed to him. Let's not forget that his first big break cam as the result of tragedy, as in 1997, he was handed the ride that had belonged to Chris Trickle (Dick's nephew) when he was shot, and eventually lost his life. Busch inherited that ride and did so well in it, that it caught the attention of Jack Roush, who brought him to the Truck Series. Then in late 2000, Roush decided to move Busch up straight from Trucks to Cup instead of the more seasoned Greg Biffle, so again Busch really didn't have to work hard for it. So what does Kurt Busch do in his first few Cup starts? He does the unthinkable, messing around with the Earnhardts, Dale, Sr. and Jr., which culminated in the 2001 Daytona 500 when Earnhardt gave him the finger in front of millions of viewers, just hours before his death in that same race. After that, he gets into a number of scraps with Jimmy Spencer, a driver even rougher than Earnhardt, Sr. was. Kurt Busch never had to work for what he eventually got, and it began to come back at him in late 2005 when he ran into the trouble courtesy of the worst sheriff in America in Arizona, which led to his premature firing at Roush. Then came his temper tantrums with Penske, who I'm shocked put up with his act as long as he did. After all, this is the same man that once fired Tom Sneva after winning the USAC championship, because he didn't win any races in that championship season. And now the incidents over the last couple of years. Given Busch's past, and that he didn't have to earn what he got, is anyone truly surprised? Now Kyle Busch, as bad as he is, at least had to learn a little patience when NASCAR passed a rule increasing the age minimum, which held him back for nearly two years. Now Kyle didn't have to earn his way up either, which is evident is his attitude, but at least he didn't get rushed up before he was ready. Kurt was never ready for the big time, and certainly is a victim of his own championship success in 2004, which gave him an even bigger head, if that's possible. 244. DaleJrFan posted: 06.05.2012 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone know if the Cup drivers will shift at Pocono this year? 245. Smiff_99 posted: 06.05.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^I'm thinking with the higher speeds, they'll be less inclined to. 246. Dave#38 posted: 06.05.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) actually kyle seems to have really matured this year. so far this year, he has not had any confrontations with any other drivers, he finally (begrudingly) started putting other drivers in his trucks, and except for the fact that his nationwide car is being split by himself and kurt instead of ricky carmichael and brian ickler (i get that they need experienced drivers to help get the cars up to speed, but there's no damn reason they should be running any of the stand alone races or more than 5-6 companion races each), i've gained a lot of respect for kyle this year. 247. Cooper posted: 06.05.2012 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sterling in the #51 this week. :) Makes sense actually, but it's a pipe dream. 248. 10andJoe posted: 06.05.2012 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >and except for the fact that his nationwide car is being split by himself and kurt instead of ricky carmichael and brian ickler (i get that they need experienced drivers to help get the cars up to speed, but there's no damn reason they should be running any of the stand alone races or more than 5-6 companion races each) There's a very good reason, the same reason Kyle gave up on his original Truck plan to field young drivers a few years back: the sponsor insists on (a) veteran(s). 249. kup posted: 06.06.2012 - 1:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) UPS - universal points system. Driver`s Power Ranking = Distance / Aver.Finish 698 Greg Biffle 5232,58 / 7,5 679 Matt Kenseth 5231,61 / 7,7 671 Dale Earnhardt,Jr, 5233,11 / 7,8 550 Denny Hamlin 5226,72 / 9,5 491 Martin Truex,Jr, 486 Kevin Harvick 413 Jimmie Johnson 385 Clint Bowyer 375 Tony Stewart 367 Kyle Busch 360 Brad Keselowski 343 Carl Edwards 322 Paul Menard 302 Kasey Kahne 302 Joey Logano 297 Ryan Newman 275 Aric Almirola 264 Jeff Burton 262 Marcos Ambrose 253 Mark Martin 250 Â Jamie McMurray 241 Juan Montoya 231 AJ Allmendinger 225 Jeff Gordon 213 Kurt Busch 213 Bobby Labonte 207 Regan Smith 250. Scott B posted: 06.06.2012 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tommy Baldwin helping out Finch is interesting due to another connection. TBR is one of the organizations that has been rumored to be interested in signing Kurt for 2013. Could there be a more permanent Rooty for Kurt driver swap in the cards somewhere down the line, if David hits it off with Finch? 251. Spen posted: 06.06.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully not, for Reutimann's sake. TBR has decent job security. Finch'd fire him after 5 races. 252. Dave#38fan posted: 06.06.2012 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) if tommy baldwin has job security why is reuty driving for another team? and if tbr had job security what happened to scott riggs, mike bliss, michael mcdowell, or any other drivers i can't remember right now that drove for him between 2009-2011. 253. LordLowe posted: 06.06.2012 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey how about put Ricky Rudd in the 51 car mainly for the purpose of terrorizing Dale Jr. 254. 10andJoe posted: 06.06.2012 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >if tommy baldwin has job security why is reuty driving for another team? ...because he's helping out Phoenix this weekend, and because the deal in the 10 specifically excluded the races Princess Danica drives? ...and also because James Finch is known to hire and fire at the drop of a hat? 255. cjs3872 posted: 06.06.2012 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Reutimann would have been in the #10 car had this situation not came up, 10andJoe, so he had a ride for the race anyway. And the reason Reutimann was chosen was the Hendrick connection through Tony Stewart and Danica. Also, Reutimann is a driver that, unless something goes wrong, such as a blown tire or other mechanical problem, is not going to wreck it, unless it's a part of someone else's incident. That may be one reason that Finch chose a steady veteran like Reutimann, unlike a young driver like Cole Whitt or Justin Allgaier. Reutimann will probably run in the back of a reduced field (possibly by as many as 7, 8, 9 cars), but he should be able to keep the car in one piece. Now Finch's #51 team is currently 26th in owner points, just seven behind Furniture Row's #78 car for 25th, more than two full races ahead of 35th (98 points currently), and more than three full races ahead of 36th (152 points currently), so he has wiggle room if he wanted to skip this weekend's race. If he decides not to keep Kurt Busch, it will be interesting to see who he replaces him with, and he even runs the road course races, as well as tracks like Loudon and Pocono, the second time around. Even if he runs only half the remaining races, Finch's #51 team should be a lock to remain in the top 35 the rest of the year. 256. cjs3872 posted: 06.06.2012 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And DaleJrFan (#244), to answer your question about shifting, the teams will almost have to because of the higher speeds, because of the RPMs they're liable to be turning, which along with the different length of the straightaways, was the reason they started shifting in the first place. If the speeds are up, they may be turning 10,500 RPMs in the race unless NASCAR really mandates a high gear ratio, and the engines can't stand that many RPMs on those two long straightaways, so they may be shifting more than ever. Remember this race last year. Kurt Busch dominated most of it, but Jeff Gordon used a strategy to beat him. What he did was to not shift for most of the first 400 miles, and then shift for the final 100, and was the fastest car because of that. I like the idea of letting the drivers shift, because that puts more in the driver's hands. And was anyone surprised that Gordon, statistically the greatest road racer in NASCAR history, won last year's race when NASCAR opened the gears up to allow shifting. TNT commentator Wally Dallenbach, Jr., an expert road racer himself, picked Gordon to win before the race last year, and that was probably one of the major reasons why he did. And why ESPN doesn't pick up Dallenbach surprises me, because he's the best analyst in racing today, because like Bobby Unser, he doesn't pull any punches. He calls it like he sees it, a fact that has irratated more than one driver. 257. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.06.2012 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With the repaving, wouldn't we be seeing higher corner speeds? That would lead me to expect them not to have a need to change gears, unless the speed on the straights is increased dramatically, at a higher rate than what the corner speeds are. But yeah, I agree completely CJS, anything that puts more of an emphasis on the driver is a good thing. Perhaps they'll be able to run in 4th the whole way round when on fresh tyres, but as the tyres wear, then they might need to use third at some points....THAT would be a true test of driver skill and initiative! 258. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.07.2012 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm glad somebody had a brain and decided to hire Reutimann, even if it's just for a one race deal and that he might not do much. Although Kurt is talented, he is struggling a fair share in that ride, though I should say it doesn't help that he has crashed himself out a lot due to impatience (not just this year, but during his tenures at Roush and Penske too). Sure, David's first win was a total fluke and he was flat out lucky that the race played out the way it did for him to even be in the top 10, but his second win more than showed that he is capable of holding his own in the Cup Series. 259. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 9:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) MyothercarisanM535i, the reason I think they'll have to shift is not the speed, but rather the RPMs. Otherwise, the race at Pocono is going to be littered with cautions for blown engines, much like the 2000 CART series race at Fontana was, as only six cars finished because of all the blown engines because of the direction the wind blew that day. The reason being that they would just turn too many RPM on the two long straightaways, which, as I mentioned, is the reason they began shifting about 20 years ago in the first place, was to keep the RPM's down to a manageable range. 260. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.07.2012 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Either I'm not following you correctly or you're thinking about it the wrong way, because that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The reason I see them changing gears at Pocono is because the long front straight requires a tall diff ratio, but then turn 3 being as slow as it is means that the engines would be outside of the power band if they were to remain in fourth. So because of they, they shift down to third for turn 3 so as to get the engine back up in the meat of the power curve, thus allowing them to get a better drive of the corner. The reason I mention the repaving is that if there is enough grip in turn 3 for them to run through there at a higher speed, the engine would be up higher in the rev range and they probably wouldn't need to drop it down to third to make up for the loss of momentum. 261. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You might be right about the diufferent ratios, but that still doesn't answer the problem of turning the engine far too many RPMs down the long straightaways, especially the front straightaway. It they go faster through turn three, that means they will be turning more RPMs in turn three, which in turn will cause them to turn more RPMs down the main straightaway, and if nothing's done, I'd say they could be turning 10,300-10,800 RPMs down the main straightaway, and 9800-10,300 RPMs down the Long Pond straightaway, and the engine can't stand that. If they do that, much of the race could be run under caution due to blown engines, because they'll be popping left and right. nd to make matters worse, the repave has made the tunnel turn easier, so the drivers won't have to back off as much, meaning they'll also be turning more RPM's down the shortchute that connects turns two and three. In all, this weekend could be an absolute nightmare for all the engine builders, unless NASCAR steps in with a more restrictive gear ratio package. 262. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 11:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sad news. It has been learned that Cotton Owens has passed away at the age of 88. Owens was a top-tire driver in multiple NASCAR series ion the 1950s and ealry 60s with his biggest win as a driver coming in the 1957 Daytona Beack Course Race. In the early 60s, he turned to owning his team, and he had some of the best drive for him, most notably David Pearson, who won his first of three championships driving for Owens. Owens also had men such as Charlie Glotzbach drive for him. The single biggest win for Owens as a car owner was the 1970 Southern 500, with Buddy Baker driving. Owens' final win as a carowner was with Pete Hamilton, in one of the qualifying races at Daytona in 1971, the last year they counted as official victories. But Daytona International Speedway was also the site of Owens' biggest heartbreaks, as he never had a car win a big race there. The biggest heartbreak of all was the 1969 Daytona 500, where Glotzbach came within a third of a lap winning, but was passed by LeeRoy Yarbrough in the last turn. Glotzbach was also second for Owens in the 1972 Daytona 500. Owens was third in the 1973 Daytona 500 with Dick Brooks, but his team's final race ended in a terrible crash by road racing superstar Peter Gregg early in the 1973 World 600. Owens remained involved in the sport until the end. With all the hubbub about the Kurt Busch situation this week, it is reminded that the sport (and sports, in general) needs more men like Cotton Owens. R.I.P. Cotton Owens, the original #6 in the Cup series. 263. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.07.2012 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why are they putting in living healthy chowderheads like Rusty when they need to get the guys whose health isn't good in. Marvin, Fred, Rex, and others need to get in while they are alive. You can't predict death, but you need to do it fast. I don't care if Dale Jarrett doesn't get in until 2040 as long as he is alive and they get people in while they are still alive. Cotton is unfortunately the sad example of what the committee is doing wrong. God bless you, Cotton. You obviously loved Dot very much. 264. 10andJoe posted: 06.07.2012 - 12:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) R.I.P. Cotton Owens. We're losing the greatest generation. 265. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 12:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, maybe they put Rusty in because he deserved it. 55 wins (ninth all-time), the 1989 championship, 16 consecutive years with a win (only Petty and Pearson had longer streaks), and battling toe-to-toe with the top drivers of two generations, and winning more than his share of them. But you are right about needing to get deserving pioneers such as Owens, the Wood Brothers, Herb Thomas Tim Flock, Lee Petty in the Hall of Fame. That's why there should have been at least 10 inductees each the first three years. Remember that the Pro Football Hall of Fame inducted no fewer than 25 men the first year (1963), and professional football, including the pre-NFL years, wasn't much older than NASCAR was when the NASCAR Hall of Fame opened in 2010. There should have been 10 inductees, at least, in the first three years, then reduced to a set number, with a required percentage for induction. If that number was not met for the minimum numbers of potential enshrinees, then you go to the next-highest vote totals until you get to the minimum number. Again the Pro Football Hall of Fame does this right. They set a minimum number of enshrines of four. Four men MUST be inducted each year, but as many as seven can be enshrined in any given year. NASCAR should do the same thing. Instead of going with a set number, they should have a minimum and a maximum, with a minimum percentage requirement. If they have to, vote more than once to eliminate those hat don't get a certain number of votes so they can get to the requisite numbers, if not enough men get the required number of votes, but don't set it at five, only five, and exactly five. Make it more flexible. 266. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.07.2012 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "We're losing the greatest generation." You are absolutely correct. Listening to him and David Pearson carry on a conversation is just amazing. I remember watching a segment that was Cotton, Pearson, and Bud Moore (the Spartanburg crew) at a tiny diner in tiny Spartanburg just talking racing past and present. Those guys met up for breakfast at least once a week. They should have recorded those conversations and sold them as podcasts on iTunes under the title "People Who Know Shit About Racing Discuss Racing". I'd have bought every one. Condolences and prayers to his family and friends. Although I must admit to selfishly wishing I could have heard his Hall Of Fame speech. At least he knew he was getting in just prior to his passing. 267. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, racing might be losing it's greatest generation, but unfortunately, no person, or thing win win any race against father time, and now it's the turn of racing's greatest generation. Let's be fortunate that guys like Bud Moore, the Wood Brothers, David Pearson, Richard Petty, Junior Johnson, A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti, the Unser brothers (Bobby and Al) the Allison brothers (Bobby and Donnie) Parnelli Jones, Dan Gurney, and many of their contemporaries have lasted this long. In recent years, we've lost the likes of Lloyd Ruby (a few years back) and Jim Rathmann (this year), and men such as Dan Gurney, Junior Johnson, Joe Leonard, Al Unser, and of course, A.J. Foyt have had health scares in recent years. There may be others I don't know about. That's what was so great about Trevor Bayne's victory in the Daytona 500 last year. Because it shined a light on some of these pioneering men, such as the Wood Brothers, who's team Bayne carried to victory, and Bud Moore, as it was a classic Bud Moore Motorcraft paint scheme (and one of Moore's old crew chiefs, Donnie Wingo calling the shots) with the traditional Wood Brothers' colors that won the race, and the history they made. Now we lose Cotton Owens. You know, in a year where the Roush #6 car has been silent in the Cup series, running only the Daytona 500 this year so far, losing Owens, the man who originally made the #6 famous in the Cup series with drivers such as David Pearson, Charlie Glotzbach, Buddy Baker, and Pete Hamilton, among others, the true history of the #6 car in the Cup series should be brought to light, because it's more than just the years that Jack Roush has run it. It certainly will be brought to light at Pocono this weekend, as part of the TNT pre-race this involves a round table with men like Kyle Petty, Bill Elliott, Ned Jarrett (it will be good to see him back on TV again, even if it's only for a role in the pre-race coverage), among others. As I mentioned earlier, R.I.P. Cotton Owens, NASCAR's original #6. 268. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.07.2012 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Bobby Allison drove for Cotton for a little while, taking over right after The Fox quit. But Bobby (you're not gonna believe this) didn't get along with Cotton. I love Bobby to death, but his inabilty to get along with owners probably stopped him from breaking every record there is, and putting them out of reach the way Petty did. Owners he didn't get along with: Carl Kiekhafer (his biggest mistake was not punching Carl K's lights out, he would be a national hero and I might put him as #1 on my best drivers ever list just out of principle), Cotton Owens, John Holman (he did have nothing but the utmost respect for Ralph Moody), Junior Johnson (his costliest disagreement, to this day Junior laments all the records him and Bobby would have smashed), Harry Ranier (he liked Harry personally, but didn't like that he wouldn't reign in egomaniac Waddell Wilson), and Bill Gardner (can you blame him?). He got along with Roger Penske, but was didn't feel his organization could compete week in and week out with the big dogs of NASCAR, plus Roger didn't want to run a full schedule and kept trying to get Bobby in his beloved Indy Cars. The final straw was when they won a race at Ontario, but had illegal parts in the engine. Bobby didn't tolerate cheating. Like everyone else who ever met him, Bobby had nothing but the utmost respect for Bud Moore and credits him for resurrecting his career. But Bud's unwillingness to part with the inferior Ford Motor Company, despite Bobby practically begging him to switch to GM, led him out the door (the same thing that drove Earnhardt away from Moore). He also really liked Mario Rossi, but the factories killed that relationship. And as far as I can tell, he got along with the Stavola Borthers. That is something you have to give his son Davey credit for: seeing how the constant ride swapping hurt his Dad's career, and sticking it out with the #28 Ranier/Yates team. Remember, '88-'90 were kinda rough years for him. Yeah he won 6 times, but had major consistency issues. But he hung in there, broke through in 1991 winning 5 times at what was probably the height of the "there are a lot of bona fide legends in these fields in their prime in equipment capable of winning, so winning has never been more difficult" era, and damn near won the '92 Winston Cup despite 4 brutal wrecks that weakened him physically (Bristol, Martinsville, The Winston, and Pocono) and the emotional anguish of losing his brother after yet another 5 win season. Considering the strength Yates showed in '94, '96, '97, '99, and '01 with drivers not as good as Davey (DJ and Rudd, although him and a mature Ernie were probably equal), I say he wins at least 3 of those Winston Cups, possibly 4. And yes, Rusty undeniably deserves to have got in the HOF. 55 wins, a championship, and two runner ups is impressive in and of itself. But to accomplish most of those in NASCAR's most difficult period ('86-'95) says a ton. Also considering the teams he did his winning with: Blue Max was loaded with talented crew members (Todd Parrott was the "tire specialist" on his championship team), but ALWAYS in financial trouble, and Penske in NASCAR has always been the model of "fast but inconsistent", that is a Hall of Famer. What if, in 1986, Rick Hendrick chooses Rusty over Tim Richmond as his second driver, and Rusty sticks with him through his retirement in '05? How many more wins and championships are we talking about? This Earnhardt fan doesn't want to think about it. 269. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.07.2012 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just a matter of time before Jimmie reaches 100 wins and 7 titles. Enjoy the greatness while it's in front of you folks." Although it certainly seems that way now, history tells us that everytime a drivers reaches "how badly can they smash all time records" mode somebody relatively unexpected comes along and starts a steak of their own. I wasn't there in 1979, but when King Richard won his 7th championship by beating a gagging DW who psyched himself out trying to psych out Richard, who would have thought that would have been his last title? I know it wasn't pretty, and was pretty much handed to him by Jaws, but it was his first year with GM after a lifetime in Mopars (except for '69). And I'm sure nobody expected his place as the sport's top star to be taken by the young and talented, but wild as hell Earnhardt kid. But he won his first Winston Cup the next year, beginning a run of 7 Winston Cups in 15 years, made even more amazing by the fact he played owner roulette for the first few years after 1980. Fast forward to 1994. Dale has just won his 7th Winston Cup, and 6th in the last 9 seasons. I specifically remember people talking about him passing King Richard with his 8th title as an inevitability, and wondering if he could reach 10. It never happened. Jeff Gordon showed up in Winston Cup in 1993, and although undeniability talented, tore up enough equipment to fill a warehouse. He won twice in 1994, but the number of crashes in those first two years were mind boggling. He looked to be the second coming of Ernie Irvan, a Californian who would win 3-4 races per year and crash about twice as many cars. Who saw his '95-'01 coming? Fast forward to 2001. As it turns out Jeff is just fine without Ray Evernham. So how many championships would he end up with? How long until he reached the magic number of 7? It didn't happen. In 2001 it was also announced Jeff and Rick were starting a sister team for the 24 team beginning in '02 that they would "co-own". The driver? Jimmie Who. His official name at the time. Smart move by Jeff, if there is going to be another potent HMS car out there, better put a driver in it that will be no threat to Jeff. Fast forward to today. As it turns out, Jimmie Who is Jimmie Johnson, somebody who has already surpassed Jeff's championship total. He has had so much success, they officially have a name for the fan's feelings towards watching him constantly win: 48 fatigue. So the question must be asked again: how far can he go? How many total wins and championships will they accumulate? How badly will they destroy the record books? So history tells us somebody will make the leap either this year or next year and knock him off. Somebody you wouldn't look at and say "that is a future multi time champ", somebody fairly new, somebody who was mostly unheralded entering the sport. Somebody that if you were to say to a NASCAR fan "He will supplant JJ and end his run of dominance abruptly with his own run of dominance", they would look at you like "are you high?". Like they would have looked at you at the end of 2001 had you said "Jimmie Johnson will not only outrun Jeff year after year from here on out, but really hurt him from a historical standpoint". Like they would have looked at you at the end of 1994 had you said "that tiny little Gordon kid is gonna make Earnhardt look like a sick old man for the next 5 years". Like they would have looked at you at the end of 1979 had you said "that wild hooligan Earnhardt will match The King's championship total in the next 15 years". Brad K? Let's go through our checklist: Unheralded entering the big leagues? Check. Hell, he had won a couple NWide races before I bothered to figure out how to spell his last name correctly, and I was pulling for him the whole time since his surprising promotion to JR Motorsports a year earlier. Plus him and Joey Logano entered at the same time, and Logano was roughly 7,000,000,000 times more touted (whoops!). New? Check, just his third year with Penske, just his second in the Blue Deuce with Paul Wolfe. Flashes of early success mixed with setbacks? Check. We had the Summer of Brad last year where he stormed into the cha$e after being as low as 27th in points, to which you can counter that by saying "he was 27th in points?". And the less said about 2010 the better. Is it seemingly crazy to think he will unseat JJ? Check. Despite his dominating win at Bristol and win at Talladega that got people rethinking how to win there, he just looks too damn inconsistent. So will history repeat itself a 4th time? All the ingredients are there for Brad. I certainly hope so. If he can just figure out how to make a damn pit stop without being penalized. 270. LordLowe posted: 06.07.2012 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Legend has it that the 1991 championship is buried in a landfill in new jersey 271. 10andJoe posted: 06.07.2012 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to agree with you DSFF. I'll go one step further though: if Brad K isn't up to the job of dethroning JJ, or even if he is, I rather suspect that the Dillon boys will get to play the Rusty Wallace to his Earnhardt over the next decade. 272. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, when I mentioned a few drivers that had driven for Cotton Owens, I mentioned those four by name, and "among others". In addition to the four I mentioned and Bobby Allison, who you mentioned, both Mario Andretti and Al Unser drove for him. In fact, had things gone their way, Unser might have won the 1968 Daytona 500 driving for Owens. If he had, how might we think of Al Unser today among race drivers? He's already the most accomplished Indianapolis 500 driver of all-time. If he had added a Daytona 500 win as a rookie to that, just how would we think of Al Unser today? And the very fact that I'm talking about that is a tribute to Owens' car building skills. Junior Johnson, Ralph Earnhardt (Dale's father), Bobby Isaac, and Jim Paschal were also among those that drove for Owens, along with David Pearson, Buddy Baker, Charlie Glotzbach, and Pete Hamilton. 273. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.07.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually the 1991 championship trophy is in the DEI museum in Mooresville along with his other 6 Winston Cup championships. I went there and took a picture of it (along with his other championship trophies, his Daytona 500 trophy, his Aero Push 400 Brickyard 400 trophy, his 1993 World 600 trophy, his only road course trophy, and his 2000 Winston 500 trophy). But on the plaque under it, there is no mention that it was the lamest points battle ever (with no excuse). As far as being buried in a New Jersey landfill, I think you have that confused with Jimmy Hoffa lol. 274. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.07.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually the 1991 championship trophy is in the DEI museum in Mooresville along with his other 6 Winston Cup championships. I went there and took a picture of it (along with his other championship trophies, his Daytona 500 trophy, his Aero Push 400 Brickyard 400 trophy, his 1993 World 600 trophy, his only road course trophy, and his 2000 Winston 500 trophy). But on the plaque under it, there is no mention that it was the lamest points battle ever (with no excuse). As far as being buried in a New Jersey landfill, I think you have that confused with Jimmy Hoffa lol. 275. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.07.2012 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "261. cjs3872" You're on the right track, but I still think you're looking at the whole thing back to front. Higher speeds down the front straight will require a taller diff ratio, which will in turn result in lower engine speeds through turn 3. So to compensate, that's when they'll be shifting - to bring revs up, not down. When you're setting up the gearing in a race car, you always start with the longest straight and work it from there. Ultimately, you need to be hitting peak RPM just as you enter the braking zone of the longest straight and so diff ratios will be selected based upon that. The ratio chosen will then have an impact on engine speeds through the various corners and, in the case of turn 3, means that a shift down to third will probably be required. You obviously understand it, but just the way you're describing it seems so odd to me! Hopefully they will be shifting though. Bring it on. I'd also like to add, that I actually like Pocono. Always have, for some reason (just as long as they don't throw any dodgy cautions this week). 276. LordLowe posted: 06.07.2012 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think they should consider stripping Kurt Busch of the 2004 Championship 277. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) From what I heard myothercarisanM53i, they will be shifting. Some of the drivers interviewed on Race Hub mentioned shifting points, and they wouldn't mention that unless they would be shifting, though they're still not sure where those shifting points will be. Last year, they were shifting twice a lap, and some drivers were doing so four times a lap. But from what I've heard, they will be shifting at Pocono, and there are likely to be transmission issues. But the reason I think they'll be going much faster is the new ashpalt. In fact, they're practicing 7 MPH above the existing record, and they're talking about lap of over 180 MPH in qualifying tomorrow (possibly as high as 183). The track record is a litle over 172 MPH, and I think they'll be hitting 210 MPH before they brake to enter turn one, and about 205 before they brake for the Tunnel Turn. 278. Woodbridge posted: 06.07.2012 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a feeling the race at Pocono this weekend is going to be a little unpredictable and crazy. New race length, repaving, etc. Prime conditions for an underdog to have a good run. Also, on the same topic, I find it funny that people here were just recently doubting Almirola will keep his job with Petty, and over that time span he's climbed five spots in the standings with a pole and a top ten. No way Almirola loses his ride this year. I bet he will even be in the #43 next year. The guy can only get better. 279. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.07.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, the entire NASCAR community has agreed to pretend the 2004 championship never happened. 280. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Woodbridge, the thing with Aric Almirola is that his conservative style of driving fits hand and glove with the Petty philosophy. One of his problems last year with Dale, Jr.'s Nationwide team was that they wanted him top be more aggresive on the race track, and that's just not his personality, and he struggled as a result. Just look how laid back he is. But this year with Richard Petty, his conservative, bring the car back in one piece approach fits perfectly with what Petty wants in his drivers. Just look at the drivers that have been successful with Petty since he retired 20 years ago, and for the most part, you'll see a common thread. They all were, or are known for conserving their equipment. Guys like Bobby Hamilton, John Andretti, Kasey Kahne, and now Almirola are good at conserving their equipment, while guys like A.J. Allmendinger and Marcos Ambrose, while fast in Petty's equipment, also abused the equipment, so were rarely factors when it counted because they had already used up their stuff. 281. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.07.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since the drivers will be shifting at Pokeynose, i DO NOT want wanted to hear complaining about the gearboxes breaking (that goes doubly for you Smoke). NASCAR IS NOT forcing you to shift gears, YOU drivers are responsable for it. 282. murb posted: 06.07.2012 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I totally agree about Almirola, Woodbridge. He and Mike Ford are really clicking. I can see them winning a race or two before this year's out. And maybe even a Chase berth in '13... 283. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru WRX STi, if you remember the spring race last year, what happened to Tony Stewart was a result of a bad batch of parts in the transmission. Every car that had transmissions from that supplier broke the same thing. Bobby Labonte's #47 car, Marcos Ambrose's #9 car, A.J. Allmndinger's #43 car, as well as both Stewart-Haas Racing cars and both Earnhardt-Ganassi Racing cars ran that transmission and had the same problem. Now the timing and severity of the problems was different. For instance, Newman, Montoya, and Stewart were all able to finish on the lead lap. Labonte and Allmendinger were able to nurse their cars to a finish one lap behind, while Ambrose and Jamie McMurray both spent some time in the garage area. I count that as at least seven cars that had transmission problems, all from the same manufacturer. 284. cjs3872 posted: 06.07.2012 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, I don't see Almirola coming anywhere close to winning a race this year, but I do see more improvement due to the presence of Mike Ford. As I said, Almirola isn't aggressive enough to win races, and Petty doesn't want or like aggresive drivers in his cars, but rather drivers that will get the car home in one piece. Then there's the question as to what manufacturer Petty's going to be with next year. In fact, another team that would be a perfect fit for Almirola would be the Wood Brothers for exactly the same reason. Almirola is a guy that's already got a reputation for bringing the car home in one piece, if not closer to the front than the car should be, based on it's potential. If Almirola is going to win a race this year, it's most likely to be at Martinsville. Mike Ford has the setup for that place, as does Richard Petty, and Almirola is also very good there. A few years ago when he drove for Bobby Ginn, Almirola once led 55 laps in a race there. And let's not forget that Martinsville is the last place that the #43 scored a win, whgen John Andretti won the spring race there in 1999. 285. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.08.2012 - 4:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, give Almirola credit; he is pretty aggressive and knows how to pass. 286. Spen posted: 06.08.2012 - 9:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah. Were you watching qualifying for the Prelude? Almirola's car was wicked loose, and he held onto it and got second fastest speed. That was *not* the lap of a conservative driver. (Granted, the fact that this is a non-points, non-earnings race probably loosens ones normal inhibitions a bit.) 287. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 9:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, you just said it right there, events like the Prelude to the Dream are non-points races where drivers can "let it loose", so to speak, and not worry about the ramifications of crashing. And when I say a driver's conservative, what I mean by that is that he'll try to get to the front, naturally, but he'll do so in a low-risk manner, and that's the case with Almirola. He tries to get to the front, but he won't take risks in doing so. Almirola also is a driver that takes care of his equipment, so his cars generally don't break as often as some other drivers, which allows him e there at the end. For instance, Marcos Ambrose has run much better than Almirola in most of the races, but Almirola usually finishes better because he does a better job of managing his equipment, something his predecessor in the #43 car, A.J. Allmendinger also has not shown that he knows how to do. Now Almirola, just like anyone else, has the capacity to run hard, as he showed in qualifying for the 600, but he usually picks and chooses his spots. I also think that his infamous stint at Ginn Racing taught him that he needed to be at the end, because it seemed like he spun or crashed every hour that he drove for Ginn, so he adapted a more conservative style because of that, cause that taught him that he needed to be there at the end. And I think having Mark Martin as a techer there didn't hurt matters any, as well as his stint with Kyle Busch's Truck team in which he won a couple of races. 288. Sean posted: 06.08.2012 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I love Bobby to death, but his inabilty to get along with owners probably stopped him from breaking every record there is, and putting them out of reach the way Petty did. Owners he didn't get along with: Carl Kiekhafer (his biggest mistake was not punching Carl K's lights out, he would be a national hero and I might put him as #1 on my best drivers ever list just out of principle), Cotton Owens, John Holman (he did have nothing but the utmost respect for Ralph Moody), Junior Johnson (his costliest disagreement, to this day Junior laments all the records him and Bobby would have smashed), Harry Ranier (he liked Harry personally, but didn't like that he wouldn't reign in egomaniac Waddell Wilson), and Bill Gardner (can you blame him?)." Okay, I'm missing something here. Kiekhaefer abruptly left NASCAR after the 1956 season due to the uproar of Speedy Thompson intentionally wrecking Herb Thomas out of the championship. Bobby Allison made his debut in 1961 and became a regular in 1966, so what would he have had to do with Kiekhaefer at all? They weren't contemporaries as far as I knew. Also, I've seen the #11 even during the Richard Howard-owned years from 1972 to mid-1974 referred to as "Junior Johnson's team". I know Johnson was the team manager at the time. Was Howard essentially a figurehead (I know he owned Charlotte Motor Speedway and that was probably his main job) with Johnson holding effective control even before he officially owned the team? As for Cotton Owens vs. Rusty, I will say that I think Rusty should have been first ballot. I think there should have been a 20-member or 25-member inaugural class and that would have cleaned up most of the mess now. If there was a first class containing the following 15 names in addition to the original five (substitute Curtis Turner, Fred Lorenzen, Holman-Moody, or whoever you like): Bobby Allison, Buck Baker, Tim Flock, Dale Inman, Ned Jarrett, Bud Moore, David Pearson, Cotton Owens, Lee Petty, Fireball Roberts, Herb Thomas, Darrell Waltrip, Joe Weatherly, Wood Brothers (together as a unit, not separately), Cale Yarborough. That would have cleaned up most of the mess that exists now. If all the mega-legends had been inducted together in the first class, there would be no chance the modern names would be crowding out legends from the past, because for the most part, any modern driver being considered first-ballot would trump almost anyone not yet inducted. For whatever reason, they chose not to do a massive debut class like the IMHoF, RNRHoF, Football HoF, etc..., but that's where the blame lies here. Don't blame Rusty. And Cotton did get in and there's an argument that everybody inducted before him may have deserved it earlier. It's not like they've actually inducted T. Wayne Robertson or Bill France's wife yet. I have mixed emotions about Richie Evans being inducted THAT early (especially since Mike Stefanik, who has just as many NASCAR titles, will probably never be inducted due to his relative lack of name recognition) but I wouldn't if they had just started with a 20-name class... "there is no mention that it was the lamest points battle ever" 2002 was lamer. I like Sterling Marlin but question whether he was a championship-caliber talent, yet he led for 20 weeks just because two or three of Martin, Stewart, Gordon, Johnson, and Rusty would have alternating crappy runs so they could never pass Marlin however mediocre his actual performance was. Marlin had a streak of five straight top tens and three straight top tens and only scored back-to-back top tens ONCE besides those two streaks that season? That's kind of awful for somebody leading the points 20+ races in a row. Then of course having Johnson and Martin inherit the top two positions and have a bizarre pace lap crash followed by all the Hendrick engines blowing up essentially handing Stewart the title (and it's not like Stewart was kicking much butt either...the guys who were like Kurt Busch and Ryan Newman were too far behind to do anything...) 2002 is way hollower to me than 1991 was. Earnhardt, Davey, and Gant all had moments of dominance. In 2002, nobody really did. JUNIOR led the most laps despite only winning two plate races and finishing outside the top ten in points? Martin had a second-place points finish that was worse than any of his seasons in the '90s (even his winless '96)? Kenseth won five races and was eighth in points (but usually only won those races because he came out of the pits first and nobody was able to pass anyone - not insulting Kenseth's talent, insulting aero push)? 1991 > 2002. Having said that, I actually DO think Marlin was better than Bobby Labonte, whom I consider the worst champion of the modern era (although I still like Bobby). The way I see it, JGR was a second-tier operation until 1999. What happened in 1999? Hmm... I see BL's two (and only two) great seasons in 1999-2000 as Tony Stewart arriving and elevating the team, but not being consistent enough yet to take advantage of improving the team HIMSELF. I think BL owes his 2000 title to Stewart much like TL owes his 1996 title to Gordon, who elevated Hendrick in a similar way in 1995. BL won way too many races at Atlanta, Charlotte, and Michigan (tracks where the car reigns supreme and the driver doesn't matter very much). You could say that about the plate tracks too, but at least Marlin could have been argued as THE best driver on plate tracks, and that's important to me. I loathe plate racing especially in the last decade but I will give major props to anybody who can be considered the best at a given discipline, even if it's one I loathe. Was BL the best or even in the top five at competing at any kind of track in his prime? Only on the cookie-cutters, and Gordon, Jarrett, and Martin were all better there (in a rather hollow period of NASCAR talent-wise also). Marlin at least WAS the best on plate tracks and I don't think BL could have placed the #4 car third in points in '95 or the #40 third in '01 (though I'm not sure Marlin wins the '00 title in the #18, so it might be a wash). Even so, I think it's more that I see BL as an inferior champion than see Marlin as a championship-level talent. I could name like 15 non-champions better than either of them... I know it's hip here to talk about Kurt Busch as the worst champion. That's not really justified. He is capable of winning everywhere. He was the closest thing to a dominant force on short tracks and flat tracks for a few years... He overachieved in some bad years for Penske. He WAS, but probably no longer is, a championship-caliber talent (and based on talent ALONE I'd say better than Kenseth, Jarrett, or either Labonte). But talent is not enough or else Stewart and Johnson would have inverted championship totals... You HAVE to separate your opinion of the driver's personality from your opinion of the driver's talent. I know it can be hard. I don't like A.J. Foyt and HATE Michael Schumacher, but I wouldn't sell their talent short. Ditto for Kurt Busch (certainly on a lesser scale). Kenseth is more stable and sane and corporate, and will undoubtedly post greater stats over his entire career (many would say he already has), but I think people SHOULD agree that if Kurt didn't perpetually get himself in trouble and had the same equipment as Kenseth his entire career, Kurt would be considered as the better driver... Hating someone's personality should not be a reason to sell them short as a driver. Now if it's somebody like Danica Patrick who has NOT shown talent anywhere and is also annoying, that's another story... 289. Sean posted: 06.08.2012 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Considering the strength Yates showed in '94, '96, '97, '99, and '01 with drivers not as good as Davey (DJ and Rudd, although him and a mature Ernie were probably equal), I say he wins at least 3 of those Winston Cups, possibly 4." Irvan > Davey = Rudd > Jarrett That's how I see it. EVERYONE rates Davey higher because he died at the peak of his prime, and Irvan like so many other non-champions who DIDN'T die gets ignored (people talk about Tim Richmond getting ignored? He gets talked about CONSTANTLY because he died while Bonnett, who didn't die in his prime, and G. Bodine, Gant, Irvan, and even Rudd, as recent as he was, are pretty much completely forgotten by non-hardcore fans). Irvan from the 1993 Southern 500 to his Michigan wreck posted a full season better than ANY of Davey's. Irvan led more laps in his shortened 1994 than Davey did in any season, dominated pretty much right from the get-go (after Davey was having a pretty weak 1993 compared to his 1991 and 1992, and that can't even be blamed on injury or his brother's death I think). Irvan wasn't really doing MUCH worse than Davey in the #4, even though the #28 had far superior equipment, even in its weak seasons (note the #6 getting a loaner #28 Ford in the 1990 finale...) I understand the sentiment over Davey. He was one of the (honestly relatively few) completely likable superstars of the last 25 years, and he died right after his best seasons. I just think 1992 was GOING to be his peak (especially since that was one of the few years Ford was actually DOMINANT). Also, I think RYR wouldn't have gone to two cars when it did had Davey lived, and I don't think Larry McReynolds was that special of a crew chief (his drivers and teams' engines carried him...Earnhardt instantly improved when Kevin Hamlin replaced him). With the eventual dominance of multi-car teams, I think RYR would have quickly been lost like Bill Davis, Morgan-McClure, and the other teams that never expanded to two cars or did so too late. Don't get me wrong. I think Davey was better than Jarrett, but I don't think he would have posted Jarrett's stats since I don't think the #28 would have been as strong as the #88 (Todd Parrott was sooooooooo much stronger than Larry McReynolds it's not even funny, and I imagine he stays at the #2 or follows Buddy to the #99 if Davey doesn't die, and Jarrett had the advantage of the #28 for setup notes, while Davey would have had nothing). Davey and Rudd? I can see why people would pick Davey because of his five-win seasons. I think Rudd was with all the right teams at all the wrong times. Some people I guess blame this on Rudd himself. Hendrick at 1990-93? That was their worst four year period by far, and I blame them being unable to figure out the Chevy Lumina (equipment issue, not driver issue). Rudd led all the Chevies in 1992 and did finish second in 1991 (although it was lame). The Kenny Bernstein team was godawful. The Bud Moore team was in decline. 1994 wasn't a smart time to become an owner-driver, but he did better than any of his peers (including Elliott and D. Waltrip) after Alan Kulwicki's death. Yates was his best shot, but he was probably too old. Childress? He got the team's first wins, although he probably wouldn't have improved it like Earnhardt did. It's noteworthy to me that Rudd got a sizable percentage of his wins on short tracks and road courses, where the real talent is shown, while he struggled on superspeedways (solely because the teams he was with were usually not powerhouses at the time). I don't really LIKE Rudd at all, but I think people constantly sell him short, maybe because he lacks meaningless marquee wins (which always have more to do with equipment than talent and not cracking under pressure, but I'll never agree with that). I think the #28 when Davey was in it was stronger than anything Rudd ever had except the #28 when RUDD was in it, and I honestly think Yates engines were better in the '90s anyway. I like Davey, I don't like Rudd, but I see them as equal. It just sucks that Jarrett ended up getting the title and the other three went emptyhanded. I admit that I've sold Jarrett's talent short in the past, but I'm steadily improving my opinion of him (especially watching Todd Parrott do nothing in the CoT era). Back 5-7 years ago I largely viewed Jarrett as a Parrott creation (if this guy can get someone as lame as Elliott Sadler in the chase, etc..., etc...) Assuming that Davey > Jarrett means that Davey would have won titles in all the years Jarrett contended for them is wrong since I don't think Yates gets Todd Parrott or expands to two cars in time to keep up with Hendrick and Roush if Davey lived. That's all I'm saying. 290. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, apparently you agree with my opinion and on what the Pro Football Hall of Fame did when it opened in 1963, when they inducted 25 members the first year. On the other hand, the National Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown only inducted four members the first year of it's existence. And Rusty was not even on the ballot until this go-round, when he got in. Also, Richard Howard did not run the #11 in 1972, Petty Enterprises did with Buddy Baker. Howard ran the #12, which was Bobby Allison's number in 1971 when he drove for Holman-Moody. when Allison left after the 1972 season and Petty went to one car, that opened up the #11 for Howard to take for 1973. And as for Ricky Rudd, he must have been doing something right, since he once ranked as high as sixth on the all-time top tens list with 372. And although he was not a championship-caliber driver, Rudd was just one notch below that, and jut past his prime, could still run with the top guys today. Rudd's biggest problem was that he couldn't get along with other teammates when with multi-car operations. The most obvious case of this was his four years at Hendrick Motorsports, when they went downward during his stay there. But when Rudd left, the fortunes at Hendrick went upward, and I don't think it's a coincidence. When Terry Labonte, a much more low-key personality, arrived there, it was just what they needed. Now as for the drivers at Robert Yates Racing, Dale Jarrett actually fared equally as good as Davey Allison, if not better, at the short tracks, winning at all three currently on the schedule. Now Allison was a better driver overall, but I think Jarrett is badly underrated by most. Now I rank Jarrett higher all-time because he was around longer. And let's not forget that the one time those two had a head-to-head duel in a Cup race, Jarrett, in a vastly inferior Wood Brothers car, beat Davey's much faster Robert Yates car at a horsepower track, which showed Jarrett had the heart to beat someone he had no business beating on that day. And I also think, Sean, that you're wrong about Larry McReynolds. Davey was badly inconsistent until McReynolds got to Yates in 1991. But once McReynolds got there, Allison took off. 11 of Allison's 19 Cup wins came with Allison, and McReynolds also helped Kenny Bernstein's team overperform with Rudd and Brett Bodine. It was just plain bad luck that Bernstein's team didn't win more than it did, especially when Rudd was there, but Joe Ruttman had a couple of potential wins that slipped away, especially the spring race at Richmond in 1986. Brett Bodine also had numerous chances to win races other than that 1990 race at North Wilkesboro that he won, including the race at Martinsville in the fall of 1991 that was made famous by Harry Gant's charge. After all, it was Brett Bodine that he battled for the win, a fact long since forgotten. And let's not forget the first Brickyard 400. Bernstein's car was a threat throughout, and finished second to Jeff Gordon with Brett Bodine driving. The problem Bernstein had was that he spread himself too thin with efforts in NASCAR, IndyCar, and the NHRA, where he was a bonified legend. Chip Ganassi is guilty of the same thing today. One big reason his NASCAR tream is not very sucessful is that he's spread too thin between NASCAR, IndyCar, and GrandAm. That's one reason Roger Penske left NASCAR in 1977, because his resources were being spread too thin, and sometinhg had to go and gthat something was NASCAR. 291. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.08.2012 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Irvan > Davey = Rudd > Jarrett" "EVERYONE rates Davey higher because he died at the peak of his prime" I respectfully disagree. Davey died when he was 32 years old. A driver's traditional prime is somewhere around 31-43. With the exception of Jeff Gordon and driver's who got a late start in NASCAR, those are the years where you see drivers do their best. So to me, Davey was just entering his prime. And he already had 19 wins under his belt at every kind of track. Perhaps most telling that he had arrived in his driving prime was his 1993 season itself before it was cut short. Despite the 28 team clearly being off where they had been the previous two years, and clearly behind the rejuvenated GM teams of Dale, Rusty, and Jarrett, he still had the car around 2nd or 3rd in points from the Spring onwards (albeit a distant 2nd or 3rd behind Dale). That is the sign of a maturing driver ready to pounce once the equipment caught up. Remember, in '93 the Fords did practically nothing until late Summer. Mark didn't even get his first win until Arugust (and ripped off 4 in a row) as him and Ernie (ironically in Davey's #28 car) dominated the end of the season along with Rusty. So I would argue 1992 (where he almost won the Winston Cup despite unimaginable physical and emotional anguish) was just a look into the future of what Davey was capable of. He had at least 10 really good years left. So here is the way I see it: Davey > 1994 Ernie > DJ > MMM era Ernie > Rudd Ernie made a huge leap forward in maturity behind the wheel in 1994. From '90-'93 with MMM, he just didn't have the equipment to run week in and week out with the top teams, so he responded by trying as hard as he could every single lap. It was entertaining as hell to watch, but resulted in quite a few wrecks, but he also milked a lot more wins out of that #4 car than it was capable of. Even once he took over the potent #28 car at the end of '93 it was vintage Swervin Irvan. He had two dominating wins at Martinsville and Charlotte, but also crashed unassisted at Dover and Atlanta. It is hard to get a good read on the Mature Ernie that we saw in 1994, the one that would dominate when the car was dialed in, and get what he could when it wasn't instead of wrecking trying to run 3rd with a 10th place car. We only got about a 20 race sampling. But in those races he won 3 times and only had one unassisted wreck, at Loudon when the track was coming apart. Had he not had his wreck, I think he would have won at least 2 championships with Yates. But I think Davey in his prime was slightly better. As much respect as I have for Rudd for his toughness, desire, tenacity, grittiness, durability, and overall badassness, I just think he was overrated as a driver. Not "bad". He was really good. But not as good as some seem to think IMO. Why do I say this? Cause he cost Dale the 1989 Winston Cup! Just kidding. The fact is he never won more than 2 races in a season. And he has a pretty small pool of tracks where he got most of his wins. Granted they were driver's tracks (the road courses, Martinsville and Dover), but he had a huge glaring weakness across the board on the big tracks. His victories at Darlington, Michigan, Indianapolis, and Atlanta were back door wins. And he edges out Rusty as worst Daytona/Dega racer. But at least Rusty had stellar records at Pocono, Michigan, and Indianapolis. Rudd just had too much trouble winning for my tastes. DJ was pretty much whatever his equipment was. In top rate equipment, he could win almost anywhere and look good doing it. In mediocre equipment he would post mediocre results, and in bad equipment he was bad. Underrated versatility too. So what would Davey had done in that Yates equipment from '94-'01? I think we can pretty much pencil him in as the 1999 Winston Cup champ. In the same equipment, I say he makes DJ look bad. I think he grabs one or both of the '96 and '97 Winston Cups. DJ was in the hunt for both of those, and Davey was better and would have had more experience in Yates cars. As Jeff was having his seemingly annual Horrific Late Season Fades, I say Davey pounces on at least one if not both. 2001 is a little more complicated. Yes Jeff had yet another Horrific Late Season Fade, but his closest challengers throughout the Summer, the Yates cars of DJ and Rudd, were having even more horrific fades allowing Jeff to clinch a week early. Would a 40 year old Davey with 14 years of Winston Cup experience been able to handle the decline well enough to pounce on Jeff's Fade? Remember, Ricky was simply never championship caliber and DJ went as his equipment went. I give it a 50/50 shot. So the final verdict for Davey according to DSFF and my incredible ability to predict what would have happened which can neither be proven or disproven (that was a half serious joke): I give Davey a 100% chance of winning it in 1999, a 75% chance of winning 1996, a 60% chance of winning 1997, a 50% chance of winning 2001, and a 30% chance of winning 1994 (Dale was posting Top 3 finishes like crazy after he wrecked out of Michigan the same weekend Ernie nearly died). So my guess: 4 time champ ('96, '97, '99, '01). The guy was really really good and could take those Yates cars further than DJ or Rudd could. At the time of his death, neither he nor Yates had truly hit their stride quite yet, and still had 19 wins. 292. Spen posted: 06.08.2012 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Howard was Johnson's partner from 72-74. My guess is, he came in with money, which Johnson needed in the post-factory days. After they had thier falling out in '74 (Junior Johnson not getting along with people? Gee where have we heard that before?), Johnson bought him out, and Howard quietly left the sport. (Though I seem to remember him making a comeback in the early 80's.) I can't recall off the top of my head if Johnson co-owned Charlie Glotzbach's car in '71 already or not. 293. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, you are right about one thoing about Ricky Rudd, and that was his ineptitude at the sport's showcase tracks. Other than his gas mileage win at Indy in 1997, which undoubtedly was the highlight of his career (other than his 1992 IROC championship), he did virtually nothing at the showcase tracks. Third was his best at Daytona, and that came with the powerful DiGard team in 1981, and his best Talladega finish, a third in the 1986 July race there, actually came with Rusty Wallace driving relief. His only other win at one of NASCAR's showcase tracks was a win at the spring race at Atlanta in 1987 (a rare race at that time that Dale Earnhardt did not win). Other than that, Rudd was skunked at the showcase tracks. Rudd, like Harry Gant, was at his best at the driver's tracks, places like Rockingham, Pocono, Dover, and the short tracks and road courses, though his win at Darlington in the 1991 spring race, can also be arguably put in the showcase track category. 294. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No he did not, Spen. Richard Howard owned that car, one of the most famous in the sport's history, because that white #3 car signaled Chevrolet's return to the sport in the 1971 World 600 (Glotzbach put it on the pole). Glotzbach's last win came in, if you can believe it, a caution-free race at Bristol (yes, Bristol) later that year in that #3 car, whic was owned by Howard, but run by Johnson and Herb Nab, perhaps the most forgotten great crew chief in the history of the sport. 295. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.08.2012 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Okay, I'm missing something here." Bobby got his start as a mechanic with Carl K, and like just about everyone else, he had a nasty falling out that led to his firing with that horrible human being. No, he never actually raced for him, but it was the first of many ugly splits from big time owners for him. And Richard Howard was the titular owner of Junior Johnson's teams for a while (including his incredible 1972 season with Bobby), but Junior ran everything. Richard just wrote the checks. "2002 was lamer." Hard to argue that one. Even before his injury Sterling was fading badly and had already lost his once sizable points lead. From there the points leader was a game of hot potato between Mark, Johnson, and Smoke. But still, 1991.... ugh. Take a trip with me as we track Dale's epic (not!) run towards his fifth championship (at Age 40, Gordon turned 40 last year and ended the season as a 4 time champ, just saying) against The Rooster, Ricky Rudd. After winning his 3rd race of the year at the Summer Dega race, he had a comfortable 160 point lead over Rudd. The next week at Watkins Glen, Dale spun out, sped in the pits, then spun out again to finish 15th and left with a 108 point lead ahead of Ricky who crashed in practice and borrowed a nose clip from Earnhardt for the race (this actually happened!). At Michigan he had some sort of problem (can't remember off the top of my head) and finished 24th, 6 laps down, allowing Rudd to cut his lead to 69 points. Um, so let's get this straight: Dale finished 15th at Ricky's best track, and then 24th one week later, and Rudd couldn't even knock 100 points off Dale's lead? Should've known right then. Dale struggles again one race later at Bristol finishing 2 laps down in 7th, allowing Rudd to make up all of 9 points on him. He finishes 2 laps down again in the Southern 500 to Harry Gant (who is at the start of his Life Begins at 51 four race win streak). At Richmond he finishes 2 laps down for the 3rd consecutive week finishing 11th, allowing Ricky to cut the lead 64. So let's get this straight: Rudd was within 69 points after Michigan, and after 3 straight mediocre Anything But Championship Caliber Performances from Dale he has made up all of 5 points. The next race, it happens. Dale is trailing Alan Kulwicki and Rusty when Alan's motor grenades going into Turn 3. Rusty spins right into the wall. Dale avoids Rusty, but can't miss Alan. He needs more than 50 laps to repair the damage, but it is a typical 500 mile race at Dover: he manages to finish 15th. His lead is now just 36 points. The next race Dale finishes 3rd to Harry Gant and his crumpled Oldsmobile to bump his lead back to 59, then wins the next race at North Wilkesboro after a dominating Harry Gant, well on his way to a modern era record 5th straight win, has a 50 cent part in his braking system fail. Rudd struggles to a 12th place finish and Dale's lead is back to 112. Then, it happened. The Day: October 6th, 1991. Perhaps the lamest day in NASCAR history. In front of a sellout crowd at Charlotte Motor Speedway (including a 7 year old DSFF), Dale blows an engine 30 laps from the finish, leaving him to finish 25th. But he gained points on Ricky! Rudd crashed out earlier allowing Dale's lead to grow to 138. Meanwhile Geoff Bodine wins the race by going the final 138 miles on one tank of gas. Nobody else could get more than 97 miles that day. NASCAR does nothing because they have already busted Junior Johnson once at Charlotte that year and he is too damn awesome to bust twice. The next race is Rockingham where Dale (you're not gonna believe this) finishes 2 laps down in 7th. His lead grows from 138 to 157. What? One week later Dale gets lapped at the short 312 mile race at Phoenix for a lame 9th place finish. His lead falls from 157 to 156, only Davey Allison is now 2nd. The same Davey who, after 4 races in 1991, was something like 73rd in points. With one race left, all Dale has to do now is start the damn race in Atlanta, and this points race will mercifully end. The same Atlanta track that was Dale's stomping grounds at the time. He does, and with nothing to lose at one of his best tracks, has no mechanical issues, no scrape ups, and no bad pit stops. He manages only a 5th place. Davey has a battery go dead causing him to slip back to 3rd in the final order. Rudd..... who cares? The final margain is 195 points over Ricky. 195? After that lame ass stretch run? So the final tally is this: After Dale's 3rd win of the season in the last week of July he is 160 points ahead of Rudd. He ends the season with finishes of 15th, 24th, 7th, 8th, 11th, 15th, 3rd, 1st, 25th, 7th, 9th, and 5th. Yet he somehow managed to gain 35 points over the entire freaking field. Even Jeff Gordon thinks that was a lame way to end a championship season (considering 1991 was Jeff's first season in NASCAR, do you think he saw how Dale closed it out, and said "ok, that is how I am gonna close out my championship seasons" lol). 296. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.08.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "a win at the spring race at Atlanta in 1987 (a rare race at that time that Dale Earnhardt did not win)" Dale won the pole and dominated that race, but his alternater failed, allowing the Motorcraft car to win the Motorcraft 500. 297. Spen posted: 06.08.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the Davey situation, I agree with both of your arguements, to a point. I fully agree with DSFF that Davey had the talent needed to win multiple titles, and that his prime was just beginning. But there's one point you overlooked. Yates' team would not have a second car in 1996. That would put him majorly behind the eight-ball for the rest of Davey's career. Here's how I think Davey's career would have played out: 1993: After a slow first half, he wins a race or three in the second half, and winds up a distant third in points. 1994: A close fight with Earnhardt, with Dale pulling it off in the end. 1995: A 'down' season, along with all the other Ford teams, but not as bad as Jarrett did. Probably two wins, and about sixth in points. 1996: Still running a single car team, which won't hurt them too badly this year. Probably similar to what Jarrett did with Parrott and a two-car team. Not enough to beat the Hendrick duo, though. 1997: The lack of a second car starts to bite. A slightly better year than what Bobby Labonte had. 1998: I'd be shocked if they win more than once. With Hendrick, Roush, Childress and Penske all playing the multi-car game, there's not much room left over 1999: Gibbs starts a second team. This finally gets the message across to Robert that he should start one too. Unfortunately, while Gibbs gets Tony Stewart, Yates gets Kenny Irwin. Not overly useful for information sharing. Still probably enough to get them back in the top five, but nowhere near close to beating Bobby Labonte. (Who becomes a two-time champ in this universe.) 2000: Still trying to get Irwin up to speed. Another decent year, but nothing special. 2001: Similarly to Earnhardt's 2000, they finally get the handle of this multi-car thing, and Davey has his best season since '94. Gordon steps it up at the end, due to actually having to fight for the title a bit, and he probably wins out. 2002: Roush becomes bosom buddies with Ford, and starts the process of turning Yates into his personal footstool. '02-07 pretty much go the way they really did. And this is all under the assumption that Yates remains top dog at Ford during thr 97-2001 period. It's possible that Roush could take that spot earlier, in which case Davey's career decline accelerates sooner. Of course, if Yates starts a second team in '96, then everything goes the way you planned it, but I doubt he would have done that if he didn't suddenly have two drivers and only one car. 298. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I didn't say that Earnhardt wasn't strong in that race (referring to the 1987 spring race at Atlanta), I just said that was one of the rare races he didn't win in the first half of the 1987 season. He even won at Michigan and Pocono in the first half of that season, and they were his two worst tracks. And he probably would've won the Daytona 500 in 1987 if it wasn't for a bad (maybe a two-tire) pit stop late, as he had literally knocked Bill Elliott out of the lead just prior to the final pit stops. 299. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.08.2012 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually the plan was to start a 2nd team in 1996. There is a myth out there that it was start in case Ernie, set to make his return after an awful head injury, couldn't handle it, there would be another car for Yates to showcase. Larry Mac debunks this myth in his book. So they would have started that team, and would have hired a driver only that had Davey's stamp of approval as a teammate. Robert knew what he had in Davey, and wasn't about to upset the applecart. 300. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But how could Robert Yates have known in 1992 or '93 that a multi-car team was ever going to work? In fact, if Davey Allison was anything like his father, it would never have worked if he was apart of it. It wasn't working at Hendrick at that time, nor was it really working at Junior Johnson's, and they were the only multi-car operations at that time. Even around 1997, Richard Childress wasn't sure that having a multi-car team was going to work, and Penske only joined the multi-car ranks through a merger with his old IndyCar rival Carl Haas in 1998. 301. 18fan posted: 06.08.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have watched a lot of races from the 1990s but was too young to follow the day-to-day stuff of the sport, so I really don't know anything about the split between Ernie and Yates. If someone could expand on that it would be very much appreciated. In 1993 I think the #28 team could've finished 2nd in points, but nobody was beating Earnhardt that year. Dale built a huge point lead in the early season mainly by accumulating bonus points, similar to how Jeff Gordon built his lead in 1995. In 1993 Dale led the most laps in 6 of the first 12 races of the season. Davey and the #28 team started slow, as their Richmond win(Davey's last win) was their only top 10 in the first 5 races. They were 6th in points, but already 160 points behind Earnhardt. By the time race 13 at Pocono was over, Davey was up to 2nd, 225 points behind Earnhardt with 4 top 5s and 6 top 10s in 8 races. Then he was wrecked early at Michigan(his best track) and had a mechanical problem at Daytona which dropped him to 7th. Then he finished 3rd at New Hampshire and would've won without a late debris caution(sound familiar?). Davey was 5th in points when he died, 323 points behind the dominant Earnhardt. Earnhardt led the points after all but 4 races in 1993, and he was 1st or 2nd in points after every race. Between races 8 and 12 in 1993, Jarrett had an average finish of 4.8 and Earnhardt 6.8, but Earnhardt scored more points because he led the most laps in four of those 5 races and picked up 45 bonus points compared to Jarrett's 10 in a year when bonus points were on everybody's mind because of the way the 1992 championship was won. 302. Spen posted: 06.08.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ernie got a lot of bad press after getting into a barroom brawl in '97, and Yates canned him. DSFF: Wow. Yates was a better planner than I thought. 303. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, I think you meant Davey Allison had an average finish of 4.8 between races 8 and 12 in 1993, not Dale Jarrett. Joe Gibbs Racing, Dale Jarrett's team in 1993, was not yet at that level. 304. 18fan posted: 06.08.2012 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jarrett did have an average finish of 4.8 in that 5 race stretch of 1993. In that stretch Jarrett had a 2nd place finish, 3 3rd place finishes, and a 13th. 1993 was the year that Joe Gibbs Racing first became a threat. They were not as good in 1994, but improved again in 1995 when Bobby Labonte joined the team, but regressed in 1996 and then switched to Pontiac in 1997. Toward the end of 1998 they started to gain strength that carried over to 1999 when they added the 20 car. In 1999 is when JGR became one of the top teams. 305. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come to think of it, that stretch of races included Talladega, the sister track to Daytona, where Jarrett won, and Charlotte, where Jarrett led a lot in the middle stages due to catching a caution during the sequence of green flag pit stops, along with Bobby Labonte. However, both Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon rallied from two different one-lap deficits to finish 1-2, so that would actually make sense. I just didn't think Jarrett's team was of that quality, though Jarrett did finish fourth in the final championship standings. But then again, the overall quality of competition in 1993 was the lowest until this year, as only 10 drivers won that year, one of which was Morgan Shepherd in the Wood Brothers car at Atlanta in a race delayed a week by the great blizzard of '93, the final speedway win for the Woods without restrictor plates, and another was Geoff Bodine at Sears Point in what was the final victory for Bud Moore's team. 306. 18fan posted: 06.08.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In 1993 the racing itself was good, just the same drivers ended up winning. 307. LordLowe posted: 06.08.2012 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The wood brothers last non Restrictor Plate Win Came at Bristol in March 2001 With Elliott Sadler 308. Spen posted: 06.08.2012 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Final *speedway* win, implying one mile or longer. 309. cjs3872 posted: 06.08.2012 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Correct, Spen. That win at Atlanta was the final non-restrictor plate win for the Wood Brothers on a track of at least one mile in length that counts in the record books. 310. RaceFanX posted: 06.02.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor: #48 Jimmie Johnson- Lowe's Build and Grow / Madagascar 3 311. An Aussie Commentator posted: 02.08.2016 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster add #87 Joe Nemechek to the first caution crash list, he plouged into the back of Stephen Leicht's #33. 312. Windows Millennium Edition posted: 06.14.2016 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor updates: #88 AMP Energy/Diet Mtn. Dew/7-Eleven #11 Autism Speaks/FedEx Freight #27 Pittsburgh Paints/Menards Patriotic #36 @TMone.com #43 Jani-King "The King of Clean"/Smithfield #42 Target/Axe/Tums/Gillette/Kellogg's #31 BB&T/Catepillar #18 M&M's/Rite Aid Pharmacy 313. Rich posted: 12.13.2020 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Joy, Larry McReynolds and Darrell Waltrip were the commentators. Dr. Dick Berggren, Steve Byrnes, Matt Yocum and Krista Voda were the pit road reporters. Jeff Hammond was the roving reporter. Chris Myers and Michael Waltrip were in the Hollywood hotel. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: