|| *Comments on the 2012 Pocono 400 Presented by #NASCAR:* View the most recent comment <#330> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Kyle posted: 06.09.2012 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Poollle! 2. 18fan posted: 06.09.2012 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With three JGR cars in the top 5, I think we could see at least a one week break from the Hendrick domination. Kyle had the car to beat at the end of the race last year in the second race before butchering the last restart, Logano had a top 5 car in that race, and Denny Hamlin led the most laps in both races last year and is the best active driver at Pocono. I think this could be the race that Gordon finally breaks into the win column if a Gibbs car doesn't win. 3. Eric posted: 06.09.2012 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Pocono race is going to be different than the ones prior based the schedule distance is going to be 400 miles, not 500 miles. A lot of results at Pocono in the past would have been different if Pocono was 400 miles instead of 500 such as Denny Hamlin's amount of wins at Pocono would have decrease a lot as an example and one the other hand Dale Earnhardt Sr. would have had 5 Pocono wins, not 2 if they were 400 mile races. 4. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, the race will be an interesting one, and once again the loopy qualifying format hits some of the top teams, most notably the #48 car, as Jimmie Johnson will have to start 24th, which will make the first 200 miles interesting. But if he comes up through the field like I think he will, he may run away with this one in the second half. The later qualifiers got the woarst end of track conditions because of a blown engine. I wonder if that could be a harbinger of things to come tomorrow. Also, only 42 cars completed qualifying runs, though neither of the two cars failing to do so will not be in the lineup. Also, if you're looking for a possible upset, look at Paul Menard and Marcos Ambrose as possibilities. Menard won at Indy last year, while Ambrose, a renowned road course expert, could be tough as well. Remember that his crew chief Todd Parrott has two wins at Pocono with Dale Jarrett. hose trying to go the distance tomorrow, I wonder how many will have engine or transmission problems on the newer, faster surface. I'd say the number of finishers will be in the mid-to high 20s from start-and-parks (and there may be as many as nine or ten) to engine and transmission problems, I doubt we'll see more than 28 or 29 cars finish, and that's if there aren't many crashes on the new surface. Remember that there were fewer healthy cars that finished at Dover (21) last weekend than there were cars that had problem and start-and-parks (22), and I suspect more of the same in this race, but I expect every healthy car to finish to finish on the lead lap, barring any late tire problems. 5. Eric posted: 06.09.2012 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I actually made up an excel sheet based on who would win at Pocono for the 400 mile mark and the actual final results of the race for 500 mark. That means I have a lot of other drivers that were leading on the 400 mile mark besides Earnhardt. Before cjs3872 questions me on Earnhardt winning 5 Pocono races, Earnhardt was leading at the 400 mile mark for 1987 2nd Pocono races, 1989 1st Pocono Race, 1991 1st Pocono Race, 1993 2nd Pocono Race, and 1999 2nd Pocono Race. 6. joey2448 posted: 06.09.2012 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, I left when they were only about halfway through the field in qualifying, and now I come back I see that Logano's lap held up. I thought, like everyone else, they would surely break the 50-second barrier. 7. Eric posted: 06.09.2012 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, I don't think you are going to see as many engine or transmission problems on the newer, faster surface as you would expect since the race is going to be 400 miles instead the 500 mile races Pocono had before this year's distance change. 8. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.09.2012 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone got an guesstimate on how may MPH they qu'ing recorded at MIS will fall by? My guess, light years by like Pokeynoses has. 9. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.09.2012 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stupid idiots scheduled qualifying for only 2 hours and killed my F1 qualifying. PEONS! 10. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Eric, the shorter distance may actually cause more problems because teams can get more aggressive with their engine settings, as well as shift more throughout the race, so the shorter race distance may actually cause more problems, as least the first few times out. Remember that in last year's first Pocono race, Jeff Gordon played it conservatively on his transmission, not shifting until the final 100 miles, but when he did shift his was the fastest car. With the race cut to 400 miles, the drivers are less likely to play it safe as far as the shifting goes, so the likelyhood of failures increase. Also, the fresher pavement will mean higher cornering speeds, and thus you may see more failures due to the fresher pavemen than you would normally otherwise see. And 1995 Subaru WRX STi, if what I suspect proves true in terms of speed, they won't be breaking the track record in qualifying at Michigan, because they'll be using restrictor plates. The qualifying record is over 194 MPH, set in 2004, and if they use restrictor plates, they won't get much over 190, if they get that high. Without restrictor plates, you'd be looking at lap speeds possibly in the 202-205 range, and that's just unacceptable for NASCAR, so I'd say there's an 80-90% probablility that they'll be using restrictor plates this year at Michigan, and possibly next year, as well. By 2014, the speeds will prbably have slowed enough to let NASCAR take them off. That's my thinking, anyway. 11. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And actually, there was some talk about using restrictor plates this weekend, but NASCAR decided against it. But look for the high possibility of restrictor plates next weekend at Michigan, where restrictor plates were actually first used back in 1970, at the drivers' request. That race was won by Charlie Glotzbach. 12. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, watching a portion of qualifying, I don't particularly like Pocono's new look from the exit of turn one to the entrance to turn three. It looks a lot like Indianapolis did in the 1960s and early 70s from the exit of turn four to the pit entrance, and there were a number of horrendous accidents at that part of the track, including the crash that killed Dave MacDonald and Eddie Sachs, the crash in 1971 where Mike Mosley and Bobby Unser crashed into three parked cars, and Swede Savage's horrific crash in the 1973 race. Even worse, if you look at the exit of turn one at Pocono, and look at the inside wall, there's an opening where if a car gets loose, it could hit at a similar angle to what Savage's car hit at Indy in 1973. And if a car hits the SAFER barrier at that angle, it's going to careen across the track and either hit the outside wall hard, hit other cars, or get hit by other cars. I do not like what they've done with the walls, especially the inner walls at Pocono. Something unquestionably had to be done, but as usual at Pocono, they did a poor job. The backstretch could be a shooting gallery if a car hits that inner wall where it jets out like the old inner wall at Indy did prior to the reconfiguration of turn four there after the 1973 Indianapolis 500. 13. Daniel posted: 06.09.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #30 David Stremme Out using fastest 43: #10 Dave Blaney 14. LordLowe posted: 06.09.2012 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS Why Is It that every time you make a fatalistic prediction it usually comes true. 15. LordLowe posted: 06.09.2012 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Please Drivers For Goodness Sake Don't Bore Us To Death this season has been bad enough already. So Put On a good Race with lots of passing and lots of lead changes Please that is all I am asking for don't give us the cure for insomnia 16. 10andJoe posted: 06.09.2012 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Using what I think would be a worthy replacement for the top 35 system: Last qualifier: Gilliland (all on time would break track record) Provisionals in order, 37th-42nd: Kvapil, Sorenson, Blaney, Raines, Leicht, Stremme 43rd: No past champion, so defaults to fastest not yet in: Riggs DNQ: Compton 17. 10andJoe posted: 06.09.2012 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...and speaking of Stacy Compton, he qualified for his first Cup Series race since the Pepsi 400 in 2003. 18. Jeff gordon fan posted: 06.09.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not surprised that logano won the pole. He was fastest in practice. 19. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, I hope I'm wrong, but I think the layout of the inner wall on the backstretch at Pocono has the potential of being disastrous because of the way it jets out. If a car hits that part of the wall, the results could be disastrous. Again, I hope I'm wrong, but in recent years, cars have had a knack of hitting the walls where no one thought they could. And 10andJoe, what you talk about being a relpacement for the top 35 system currently used looks and sound an awful lot like what the top 35 system replaced. In fact, it's exactly what it replaced. And it should not be surprising that Joey Logano is fast at Pocono. Let's not forget that Logano led more than 100 miles in the most recent race there. But will he drive aggressively enough to stay there. Also Logano is starting to get a reputation for being able to qualify up front on the driver's tracks. Remember his pole last year at Sonoma? His problem is the mid-sized tracks where aggressiveness is rewarded. The harder you have to run these cars, the worse he performs. Last week's run at Dover also proved that he can get it done on more difficult tracks where conserving the equipment is important, as he had his best run of the year last week. Even so, he's just barely hanging on to a top 20 position in my view, though he's 16th. I predict in by the end of the TNT portion of the season (six races from now), he'll be between 19th and 23rd in points, as he usually is. 20. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.09.2012 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) We are seeing a classic "contract run" from Logano right now a la Brian Vickers in 2009. If JGR gives him an extension look for a similar fall off in performance like Brian's 2009 playoff run. Hopefully The Coach realizes this and finds a capable replacement next year (which does not include Kurt Busch). 21. Mike Litoris posted: 06.09.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully Logano can turn this into a victory tomorrow, he needs it. 22. Phil Pheekoons posted: 06.09.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard! 23. 10andJoe posted: 06.09.2012 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >And 10andJoe, what you talk about being a relpacement for the top 35 system currently used looks and sound an awful lot like what the top 35 system replaced. In fact, it's exactly what it replaced. Not -quite-; the previous system, if the 43rd spot wasn't filled by a past champion, added an additional provisional based on the owners' points. My idea would have it revert to the next fastest qualifier instead. Also: this is David Gilliland's 200th Cup Series start. 24. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.09.2012 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go Marcos! 25. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.09.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Please Drivers For Goodness Sake Don't Bore Us To Death this season has been bad enough already. So Put On a good Race with lots of passing and lots of lead changes Please that is all I am asking for don't give us the cure for insomnia" LordLowe, please don't think like that man. Racing is what it is, sometimes it's exciting, sometime it isn't - and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But every race is just as legitimate and important as the next and every race is interesting in it's own way. However, when you begin to look for specific qualities that you determine to be that what makes for "good racing", you'll find yourself more likely to be disappointed by the results. 26. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think so, DSFF. As I mentioned, in 4-6 races Logano will be between 19th and 23rd in points, where he'll finish the year, unless Daytona falls his way and he gets a good finish there. Remember he's 16th now, and you know he's not staying ahead of Jeff Gordon much longer. The "contract run" as you called it, as far as Logano is concerned, would have come in the last five races of 2010, when he had successive finishes of seventh or better in four or five consecutive races. But the plain truth is that there are no good replacements available at this point, except Kurt Busch, and he took himself out of the running last week at Dover. Joe Gibbs might keep Logano next year because there isn't anyone else better to replace him with. There aren't any drivers coming up of any real quality that aren't already under contact somewhere else (like Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. is with Roush) or that has family connections (the Dillon brothers at Childress, and Ty is at least three years away, if not as meny as five). There's a dearth, not only of quality cars, due to sponsorship issues, but of quality drivers, something Greg Biffle first brought up as far back as five years ago. I think that unless another quality driver moves, Joe Gibbs is stuck with Logano in the #20 car. 27. Eric posted: 06.09.2012 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You forgot about the possibility of Ryan Newman. I don't think he resigned with Stewart-Haas yet. Ryan is not a top 5 in points driver, but he's a step up from Joey based he can be in the chase with wins. It is not a given that Ryan is going back to Stewart-Haas despite Stewart wanting him back. The other thing is it is not a guarantee that Military Sponsorships will be in Auto Racing next year because members of Congress wants Military Sponsorships to be a thing of the past like they tried last year. 28. Schroeder51 posted: 06.09.2012 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #17 Too bad Compton is going to park the car. 29. joey2448 posted: 06.09.2012 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know the speeds at Michigan are really high, as some drivers were hitting 215 and above earlier this year, but the majority of the drivers say that they're comfortable with those speeds. All the grip provides the stability the cars need. I'm not sure whether or not NASCAR will require restrictor plates, because the only thing NASCAR would be worried about is the cars going airborne when they spin backward. 30. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, let's say Newman does leave Stewart-Haas, then who would Tony replace him with, because although Tony would like to bring Ricky Stenhouse back to his oprainzation (he drove sprint cars for Stewart previously), then what would that say for Roush, who's already guaranteed Stenhouse the flagship #6 car there next year when and if sponsorship arrives. Having said that, Roush's organization is stronger overall this year than it was last, but if sponsorship does not arrive, Roush may lose his Nationwide team all together next year (he ran three cars there full-time just last year), and Ford's involvement in that series could go with it, depending on what Penske does. And joey2448, that's the problem. NASCAR does not want lap speeds at or over 200 MPH because the cars have proven that they will not stay on the ground if they get backwards at that speed. That's been a known fact since the 1970s. A 210 MPH straightaway speed is about all NASCAR can tolerate. That's why there were rumblings about restrictor plates this weekend, and I think they'll be running restrictor plates next weekend, or something similar to that, because if straightaway speeds at Michigan were 215 in the test, they'll be 220 for the race weekend, unless NASCAR steps in. And Schroeder51, Compton and about 6-8 others are likely to park tomorrow. 31. Eric posted: 06.09.2012 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Stewart-Haas could get Kurt Busch if Newman leave. Tony Stewart actually said on on Sirius XM NASCAR radio that he honestly had liked Kurt's answer to Bob Pockrass. Stewart said on Sirius XM NASCAR radio that there a couple reporters that strictly want to be tabloid journalists, and Bob is one of them. That tells you where Stewart is with Kurt. The only thing is if a sponsor is willing to put up with Kurt's behavior. I am guessing Justin Allgier or Trevor Bayne would be the best bets for taking Newman's spot if Ryan leaves outside of Kurt. I know Roush wants to keep Trevor, but the question is how long Trevor still wants to be a part time cup driver. 32. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.09.2012 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "LordLowe, please don't think like that man. Racing is what it is, sometimes it's exciting, sometime it isn't - and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But every race is just as legitimate and important as the next and every race is interesting in it's own way. However, when you begin to look for specific qualities that you determine to be that what makes for "good racing", you'll find yourself more likely to be disappointed by the results." *some* NASCAR fans view a race with this fallacy. Up your expectations, you'll be disappointed more times then not. Lower your expectations, you find that you'll enjoy that race more. My expectations for a race aren't very high to begin with (no matter what series i watch, when i watch it). 33. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, the question where Trevor is concerned is whether he wants to be a part-time driver, period, Cup or otherwise, though I and others suspect that his strong religious beleifs are actually causing sponsors to look away from him, because having a driver of such religious beliefs is going to alienate a substantial portion of a sponsor's potential buyers, no matter what sponsor it is. And Kurt Busch is such damaged goods rignt now that I'm not sure anyone would touch him with a 10-foot pole. And Justin Allgaier is getting a reputation of rubbing other drivers the wrong way, so I'm not sure about him either. Like I mentioned before, there's dearth in NASCAR, not only in quality rides, but also of quality drivers, something Greg Biffle mentioned as long as five years ago. 34. LordLowe posted: 06.09.2012 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well 1995 Subaru you have lowered your expectations in more ways then one by living in a hellhole like Michigan 35. LordLowe posted: 06.09.2012 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah M535i You're probably right I kind of lost it there. I expect there to be a few races that will be boring but it seems like this whole season has been kind of a drag with very few exciting races with one driver just pulling out to a bigger and bigger lead. But Maybe you're right maybe I am expecting to much from the races I don't know. 36. LordLowe posted: 06.09.2012 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is there a way to Resurrect or clone Dale Earnhardt cause it would be interesting to see how he would fare with today's cars and drivers. 37. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.09.2012 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol at posts 21 and 22, "Mike Cliteros" and "Phil Pheekoons" 38. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.09.2012 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, rather than suggesting you lower your expectations of a race, I think what you should be doing is looking for different qualities than just lead changes, passes and the margin of victory. Good racing and excitement are two things that don't always go hand in hand - a race can be good, but lacking in entertainment, whilst another can be exciting, but still be considered a bad race. Did you watch the Indycar race from Texas? I enjoyed every minute of it, from flag to flag. Looking at that race and the Indy 500, it seems to me like the new car works brilliantly on the ovals, I was really impressed. 39. 10andJoe posted: 06.09.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >because having a driver of such religious beliefs is going to alienate a substantial portion of a sponsor's potential buyers, no matter what sponsor it is. And, as I've said before: if he was "as religious" for any religion other than being a Christian, nobody would ever suggest such a thing... 40. Eric posted: 06.09.2012 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, I don't think a clone of Dale Earnhardt or Resurrect him for driving purposes only is a good idea. The problem with with Resurrect Dale is the fact you are resurrecting almost 50 year old driver at the time of his death besides the fact Dale was getting banged up in his later years in injuries before the fatal 2001 Daytona crash. This is not like Resurrecting Davey Allison or Alan Kulwicki because both of those drivers were in their 30's when they died in 1993. Dale got hurt something like 2 or 3 times from 1996 to the end of 1999. Dale had surgery on his neck after 1999 season as a result his 1996 crash. While Safety has improved since his death, he still would get hurt pretty bad if he had Crashes like Jeff Gordon had at Las Vegas in 2008. The other problem was while Dale was great in 2000, he was not at his peak as a driver. The problem with cloning Dale Earnhardt is a few things. Some of Dale's issues late in career was aero related like he complained about aero push at Michigan in 1997. There are more Mile and half tracks now than there were in Dale's peak and that is not where he's at best outside of Atlanta. He won at Michigan, Charlotte Motor Speedway, Pocono and Indy, but that is not were he is at his best at in terms of ovals. He was a short track, and great at drafting besides being great at Darlington. I am not saying he can't do non Driver's tracks and his history says that more than Rusty's did. The 2nd problem with Dale for cloning is Dale did stuff back in his era that he wouldn't be allowed to do now because Sponsors now days don't want a very aggressive driver. The 3rd problem with Cloning Dale is you mat not get the best out of him because of tire wear and the fuel cells being shorter. 41. cjs3872 posted: 06.09.2012 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MyothercarisanM535i, I checked out that race, switching back and forth between that and Game 7 of the NBA's ECF, and what happened at the end again proves Jackie Stewart's theory of drivers knowing how to win races. Graham Rahal is fast, but does not know how to win, and tonight proved that again, as he needlessly hit the wall exiting turn four at Texas coming to two to go. He was running higher and harder than he needed to, considering the circumstances, especially considering the handling of his car. Had that been someone like Dario Franchitti, Will Power, or Helio Castroneves, that car would never have come anywhere near the wall at that point with a nearly two second lead coming to two to go. Rahal was risking it on every lap, running too high, and it finally caught him coming to two to go. If I were Chip Ganassi, I'd have a serious talk with Rahal, and tell him if he makes the same mistake again, that he may be looking fo work elsewhere. Call me crazy, but I think we know why very few Americans race in that series. It's because they don't know how to race the situation. IndyCar needs good American drivers, but it also needs intelligent American drivers, and it currently doesn't have any. 42. Tarv posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree that aren't many, if any at all if they want to replace Logano. Kurt Busch isn't helping his cause, Roush has too much tied into Stenhouse to let him go. Only two I could see is one that y'all pointed out with Newman, if he doesn't want return to SHR or military sponsorship is cut. The other would be Elliot Sadler, he has been running well enough in Nationwide and Trucks that someone like JGR or another team may give him ride in Cup. 43. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also watched Game 7. Horribly depressed. I was hoping the Heat would gag again. Go OKC! Dale would take one look at modern day NASCAR, puke his guts out, and say "the hell with y'all p***ies, I'm going deer hunting". Whether it is deer season or not! 44. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.10.2012 - 8:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Amen, DSFF! Bravo! Encore! Dale would have rearranged punks like the Buschs, Logano, and Harvick (not saying they are it, just examples) before their rookie years were over and have given them a new face, either in the pits or on the track. He would have tolerated none of this whining. I personally think, though, that he would puke at the Chase system because he was a true-blue, 365[ or 6] days a year all-out racer and I wonder if he would have pulled out of the sport after 2004 or 2005. I know if I was out there I would keep a clean (not cussing tongue), but I would be saying just the right thing so that I don't get in trouble, but also know how to jab them so that it gets their goat. Kind of like Bobby Hamilton... Bobby Hamilton, Dale Earnhardt, personality wise, big difference... NOT! Two tough guys we need more of in racing today. Now we watch the Pansy Special on Sundays. Eric, if we get another driver like Dale, regardless of the schedule, we will see drivers that should have had their noses broken years finally seeing that sea of red. cjs, give Graham a break; he doesn't know how to drive a race without hitting something in general. I think he would have hit the wall if he was running 18th just as well. 10andJoe: You make a good point. If you blast Christianity, you're all right with the media, but if even show slight dislike for any other, you will be lynched. I personally think Bayne is content to be where he is, and that he isn't worried. He is kind of like Neil Bonnett in that sense; happy regardless. 45. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 10:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, no I'm not going to give Graham Rahal a break, because he had no business running as hard (and as high) as he was running with that few laps to go with that kind of lead. If someone was right behind him and he ran into the wall like that, that's one thing, but he was leading by nearly two seconds coming to two to go and he walled it. There's no excuse for that. He should have backed down because he could have given up a half second each lap and still won. He was just asking for trouble running the way he was, and that's what he got. But Rahal's failure just proves to me why there will never be another top America IndyCar driver. There's just not one good enough, and just as importantly, not smart enough to be able to win. It's as simple as that. And also, Bayne is content to be where he is, because, sad as it is, I don't really see anything else opening up for him for several reasons. First, there's the Christianity situation that continues to hold him back as far as sponsors go. Then, as much a fallacy as it is, there's the health situation. There's still some who question his long-term health and believe that what happened last year may have been the beginning of something bigger. But there's something else, and that's the fact that one day past his 20th birthday, he reached the pinnacle of the sport by winning the Daytona 500. Odd as if might seem, there are those that think that took some of the fire from him and that he lost interest in racing. And there is precedent for that. In 1966, car owner John Mecom won the Indianapolis 500 (and nearly finished 1-2) on his first shot and finished second there in 1967. After 1968, he tired of being involved in thre sport because he had already reached the pinnacle on his first attempt, so he sold out to Parnelli Jones and Vel Miletich, who formed Vel's-Parnelli Jones, which became racing's first modern superteam in the early 1970s. 46. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 12:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But Rahal's failure just proves to me why there will never be another top America IndyCar driver. There's just not one good enough, and just as importantly, not smart enough to be able to win. It's as simple as that." Well, most of the people who would have been capable of it are in NASCAR (J. Gordon, Stewart, Kahne, Hornish, Allmendinger...) or in other series after never landing an IndyCar ride (Jon Fogarty, Alex Gurney, Buddy Rice - how the hell did he just disappear?, Conor Daly). I don't think RHR chokes much and he's capable of winning but isn't capable of being a mega-star (he's the IndyCar Clint Bowyer). I used to be impressed with Graham Rahal when he was overachieving in Dreyer & Reinbold and Sarah Fisher cars, but he's been a disappointment at Ganassi. Kimball's a ride-buyer, Marco sucks, Carpenter pretty much sucks (although he has been doing about as well as he can). Hildebrand and Newgarden may still have some potential (yes, Hildebrand choked Indy but Dan Wheldon wasn't able to win in the Panther car either). The ladder's had little American talent for years because almost all of it is geared toward NASCAR. That's the real issue. Now maybe that's starting to change with Bryan Clauson and Chase Austin seemingly switching sides and lots of Americans in the lower rungs of the Road to Indy. It might be better five years from now... "First, there's the Christianity situation that continues to hold him back as far as sponsors go." Seriously, I have not gotten this at all. Back in the '90s Jeff Gordon was a fundamentalist Christian (and a very annoying and hypocritical one as well given how obnoxiously aggressive he was on the track, especially to Rusty Wallace). Many other fans and myself constantly wanted to vomit when he would win especially after "rough driving" and thanking the Lord. Bayne has been far more humble and subtle. If being a far stronger evangelical Christian and having Brooke insert Bible verses into his car before every race was okay for Gordon, why is being a far milder version like Bayne not okay? Obviously there are differences. Gordon was a media darling for a variety of reasons that Bayne wasn't (he never said anything controversial to appeal to yuppies and that he was winning constantly), but how was Gordon being FAR MORE EXTREME in that regard (before his divorce) acceptable and Bayne not? I'm puzzled... Gordon is actually REFRESHING now that he's actually one of the more outspoken drivers out there (because he himself inspired a generation of wusses who refused to rock the boat even compared to Gordon). I was AMAZED when he actually called NASCAR on the Dover debris caution. He would not have done something like that in 1998... Of course, NASCAR let him get away with everything in those years... 47. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah, John Edwards and Jonathan Summerton. There's a couple of American talents who look like they've joined Fogarty and Gurney in sports car racing. It's not that Americans aren't capable of winning in IndyCar. It's that the owners are picking the wrong ones (Marco/Graham for their names, Ed Carpenter because he's related to Tony George, Danica because of her marketing potential). If some of the people in Cup (Allmendinger/Hornish, and I think Allmendinger might end up replacing Ryan Briscoe in Penske's IndyCar operation much like Franchitti slid over from Ganassi's Cup team to Ganassi's IndyCar team) or in sports cars (Fogarty and Gurney are long gone, Edwards/Summerton/Rice might not be) were in the series, they'd be far more likely to win. 48. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one who misses the 500 mile format? 49. Spen posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I miss it too. 50. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I miss the 500 mile format too. I truly enjoy longer races. Tough break for Allmendinger, who really needed some good runs, and Truex Jr. on that accident. Carl got lucky. He will probably recover from that tire issue and be a threat later on. 51. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I almost threw up with laughter when I read this. I've checked on a few sites and it looks like the Jerry Springer show is going to sponcer Kurt Busch. They have the car already done. It's going to be green and white, it's going to be a few race deal if it goes threw! 52. joey2448 posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, my pick to win (Cousin Carl) nearly had his race thrown away on the first turn by Hamlin! Good thing that wreck happened so he could pit without losing too much time... 53. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Leave it to Springer to be the one to help give Busch another chance. 54. Mr X posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What was Denny Hamlin thinking! That was possibly the dumbest first turn of the first lap move I've ever seen. I also miss the 500 mile format, NASCAR having to switch this race to a 400 mile distance just proves what NASCAR's biggest problem has been for the last several years due to all the factors that we have discussed on end on these comments pages. The drivers all race like idiots during the first 10 laps after a start or restart because after the cars spread out there's no speed disparity between the cars anymore at any point in a run. NASCAR was more exciting 10+ years ago because of the speed disparity between the cars, and how it changed during a run. You could have a 1000 mile race at virtually any track if NASCAR realised that all you need for an exciting race is fast, medium, and slow cars. I believe it was Richard Petty who said something similar to that. 55. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoever is in the booth with Kyle and Wally needs to stick his head in the can and flush. He sounds like a wrestling sensationalist. Looks like another follow-the-leader show. 56. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just woke up, what have I missed? 57. Schroeder51 posted: 06.10.2012 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What have you missed...some rather crazy racing, including a near accident in the first turn of the first lap, and two multi-car crashes in the first 15 laps. 58. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad screws up on pit road yet again... 59. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Every damn week Brad. 5 times already this year. 60. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That needs to change before Brad can be the multi-time champion I expect him to become. 61. LordLowe posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OldSchoolNascardude1 You Have worn out My Patience sir I demand that you upload some more Truck Series Races RIGHT NOW. 62. Mr X posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe everyone will be caught speeding and it will even out. 63. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) These pit road speeding penalties are getting crazy.. 64. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, I'll try to very soon. It's been a long time. 65. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's with all these penalties?? 66. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IT'S A CONSPIRACY 67. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can you imagine those ass kissers at FOX openly questioning NASCAR like this? Something must be up, except for Brad, I totally believe he sped on pit road cause he does it every damn week. 68. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Am I the only one who misses the 500 mile format?" Yeah, but the fans thought is was too boring so NASCAR removed 100 miles from NASCARs most unquie track. 69. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I must've missed it; why is Mears off the track? They had some good runs lately (for them) so it'd be a shame to see Germain go back to start-and-parking.. 70. Schroeder51 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr. wins this race. That's what I'm predicting. 71. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The way I count it, had those early crashes not happened, there would have been 10 start-and-parks. That's virtually one quarter of the starting field. All but Reed Sorenson and Landon Cassill that are out of the race would have been start-and-parks. And as for Casey Mears, this is the time of the year that Germain Racing starts doing start-and-parks, so that should be no surprise. In fact, I thought they would start doing them, beginning with this race. 72. Schroeder51 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A. J. Allmendinger is going to get fired from the 22 before the season's end. I have a feeling it's going to happen. 73. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Am I the only one who misses the 500 mile format?" One of the few. Which is fine, but I think it's good that it's 400 miles. Drivers were admitting during a lot of the race they would just "drive around". All the races need to be shorter. I think the #1 reason nascar's ratings are so low is because the races are so long. I'm the biggest nascar fan, and even I don't watch the whole race. "The way I count it, had those early crashes not happened, there would have been 10 start-and-parks. That's virtually one quarter of the starting field. All but Reed Sorenson and Landon Cassill that are out of the race would have been start-and-parks. And as for Casey Mears, this is the time of the year that Germain Racing starts doing start-and-parks, so that should be no surprise. In fact, I thought they would start doing them, beginning with this race." Didn't they sign a contract where they have to have 43 cars in the field or they don't make as much money? Nascar had made themself look so stupid. I have a genius idea. After you see 7 drivers speeding wouldn't you say to yourself "hey I think there's something wrong with out system"? Between this and the cars "randomly" running out of fuel in the beginning of the year. And the drivers were afraid to complain about it, because they thought they would get in trouble with nascar. Got to love the people that run nascar. Rant over 74. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's worse, Schroeder51, is that it appears to be from yet another driving error. Again, Penske can deal with lack of performance, especially if neither of his cars are performing, as has been the case recently, but the one thing he will not tolerate is errors, especially errors that lead to crashes. Allmendinger just got in the dirt in the Tunnel Turn, and that threw him into the wall. And that's an error on his part. 75. Dave#38Fan posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) penske should move allmendinger to the #12 indycar and will power to the #22 nascar. 76. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also miss 500 miles. I like the marathons. This new pavement is predictably awful. And we have another repaved track next week. Is it Sears Point yet? 77. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "A. J. Allmendinger is going to get fired from the 22 before the season's end. I have a feeling it's going to happen." I know a lot of people are saying that. But I think Trevor Bayne needs another year full time in nationwide. He's not ready yet. There's such a huge list of drivers career's that have halted because they were rushed into the sprint cup series. I would sign him for a one year nationwide deal just to make sure. And I think Stenhouse will take over the #22. SHR is going to keep Newman (stupid desicion) and then put Danica in this year or next. And Roush can't find sponsorship for Daytona 500 winner Matt Kenseth. How can he find sponcership for Stenhouse? Interesting fact AJ Allmendinger: 165 Career Starts 5 Top 5's 78. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes 12435Dude, that appears to be a stipulation in the television deal made in 2000 that there has to be a full field of 43 at a Cup race for NASCAR to get the full television money for the event. That stipulation does not apply to the Truck and Nationwide Series, which has had short fields (in fact, the Truck Series had short fields at Dover and Texas). And it first reared it's ugly head as far back as 2002, when NASCAR actually begged Dave Marcis to run a car so they could have a 43-car entry list. 79. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The wave-around is a joke at a place like Pocono. It actually is beneficial to take it at this track. 80. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HELL YES! Keselowski was knocked with a speeding penalty! If there is anything I hate in NASCAR, it would be speeding. They race and race and race to the scoring line, slam on the breaks to pass the line, and then race and race and race again. All on pit lane. Hmm, Does 1987 Winston Western 500 mean anything to you guys? or 1990 Atlanta Journal 500? People were seriously injured in pit-road accidents in those races, in the second one, someone DIED! For pete's sake, NASCAR needs to either randomize the scoring loops or make the speed limit cover all of the pit lane, so we won't have these stupid *Cheating* moves by guys like Brad Keselowski that could end up hurting a NASCAR official or crew member. Regardless, as one person had said ealier: 32. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.09.12 - 9:35 pm "LordLowe, please don't think like that man. Racing is what it is, sometimes it's exciting, sometime it isn't - and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But every race is just as legitimate and important as the next and every race is interesting in it's own way. However, when you begin to look for specific qualities that you determine to be that what makes for "good racing", you'll find yourself more likely to be disappointed by the results." *some* NASCAR fans view a race with this fallacy. Up your expectations, you'll be disappointed more times then not. Lower your expectations, you find that you'll enjoy that race more. My expectations for a race aren't very high to begin with (no matter what series i watch, when i watch it). Dang straight Subaru. The only stuff that excited me back in 2007-2009 were, sadly, races with big huge crashes. Then, after the 2010 Aaron's 499, that changed, and I started watching motorsports for racing, not the crashes. Now that I look at the racing, and I observe every faucet of it, from the beating-and-bangning on track to the on/off track strategy, I have only found three and a half dull races this year. They would be Daytona, Las Vegas, and the Coke 600. The 'half' race would be the first half of the Talladega event. And on a side note. DANG It why can't those of us watch Indycar and Nascar races more often!? Hmm? Surely at least ESPN could turn the chase back over to ABC. Really, If I ahd my way about it, FOX would cover: The Bud Shootout the first 5 races of the year, the Aaron's 499, The Southern 500, the All-Star race, Coke 600, and the Chase Races. In a 38 race schedule *As we are counting the exhibition races*, that is only 20 races. Just about half. The rest of the season can be covered and divided by ESPN, ABC, TNT, and NBC if they would come back. 81. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes 12435Dude, that appears to be a stipulation in the television deal made in 2000 that there has to be a full field of 43 at a Cup race for NASCAR to get the full television money for the event. That stipulation does not apply to the Truck and Nationwide Series, which has had short fields (in fact, the Truck Series had short fields at Dover and Texas). And it first reared it's ugly head as far back as 2002, when NASCAR actually begged Dave Marcis to run a car so they could have a 43-car entry list." Ok I thought so. Your like an encyclopedia of racing knowledge. My thinking is why have 43 cars anyway? I would like to see somewhere like 22 cars per race. Only the top of the top teams can race in the series. And that it's impossible to make it to the Sprint Cup Series. The lowest 2 guys in the standings per year have to go back to the nationwide series. The lowest team also had to go back to the nationwide series. And get rid of the chase/ or only allow the top 7 to make it. (I check the standings every year the battle for 7th is always insane. It's always changing) 82. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As much of an Allmendinger fan I am, he's going to be gone by the end of the year. Who takes the #22? My choices if I were Penske, in order... Bayne, Stenhouse, McMurray, Smith, Almirola, Reutimann, Hornish, Ragan, Logano. 83. Mr X posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF with the Southern 500 and the Coke 600 not making it, I find it sad that there will likely be no races that reach the 4 hour mark. 12345Dude, none of the races need to be shorter, the length of the races is part of the reason why I have a hard time getting into the Truck and Nationwide races, there are races during the season that only have one pitstop and that's way too short. I like the longer races where there are multiple full fuel runs, however before that NASCAR needs to do multiple things to bring the speed disparity back, Pocono's new pavement isn't helping. 84. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Add Kyle Busch to the list of those out of the race, as he's had an engine problem for the second week in a row. With the high speeds and RPMs of Pocono, I wonder if this will be the first of a number of engine failures in the second half of the race. The incident between Reed Sorenson, J.J. Yeley, and Tony Raines more than likely also came from an engine failure on Sorenson's car. and Sorenson most likely lost an engine, and spun in his own oil, and Yeley and Raines ran into the oil and also crashed. 85. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The "B-Clux" commercials are moderately disturbing. 86. Schroeder51 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs has so much racing knowledge I sometimes wonder if he is actually one of the racing gods. Myself, I'm an encyclopedia of knowledge at other things...not so much when it comes to racing. For the second week in a row, Kyle Busch has broken a motor. 87. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Woodbridge, if Allmendinger is replaced, Hornish would be the logical first choice, but then Bayne, Regan Smith, and David Ragan, who almost got the ride this season as it was. 88. jabber1990 posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Larry Mac just said "its not speed but more time over distance" um Larry Mac Speed=Distance/time 89. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason I had Hornish lower is that if I were Penske, I'd try to find a sponsor and make it a three-car operation again with Sam in the 3rd car.. I think Hornish is ready for his second go. 90. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF with the Southern 500 and the Coke 600 not making it, I find it sad that there will likely be no races that reach the 4 hour mark. 12345Dude, none of the races need to be shorter, the length of the races is part of the reason why I have a hard time getting into the Truck and Nationwide races, there are races during the season that only have one pitstop and that's way too short. I like the longer races where there are multiple full fuel runs, however before that NASCAR needs to do multiple things to bring the speed disparity back, Pocono's new pavement isn't helping." Yeah I bet a lot of old fans do. But the casual audience doesn't (at all). I know a lot of people who only watch 1/4 of the race, and they tell me they wish the races weren't so long. And you need that casual audience not flipping between the channels all race. "Woodbridge, if Allmendinger is replaced, Hornish would be the logical first choice, but then Bayne, Regan Smith, and David Ragan, who almost got the ride this season as it was." I don't think Hornish would take the job. He hasn't done enough in nationwide. Yeah he's 4th in the standings, but drivers 8-10 in the final nationwide standings will probably have 0-2 top 10's. No one can find sponcership. The field is suffering. 91. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Pocono needed to be shortened. That's because the race pace for a place the size of Pocono was simply too short for 500 miles. They were only runing laps in the race of 155-160 MPH, instead of 180 at other tracks where 500-mile races are held, so it's a problem with the pace of the race. The laps were 55-57 seconds, so the problem was race pace in comparison to the size of the track. 92. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who do you guys think is going to win the race? I say it's between Dale Earnhardt Junior or Jimmie Johnson. 93. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish NASCAR would let TV show the telemetry of the cars on pit road. They aren't allowed to sshow the car speeds when they are on pit road. Why does NASCAR do this? So they can selectively enforce it. They need to be more transparent about this instead of leaving us to guess. 94. Schroeder51 posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am REALLY hoping I'm wrong about my prediction of Junior winning this race. If he wins, we're going to have an influx of obnoxious Junior fans posting here... 95. NadeauFan91 posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If this goes green the rest of the way, I'm pretty sure Junior's got it. Oh please no bullshit yellows! *fingers crossed* 96. LordLowe posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Misadventures of Jeff Gordon Continue. 97. Mr X posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 500 miles at Pocono wasn't too long, no race at Pocono has reached the 4 hour mark since July of 2005 when there were a whopping 13 cautions. This race last year set a speed record and was over in under 3 and a half hours. Although I liked them the 500 mile races at Dover and Rockingham were true marathons, those races were almost guarenteed to last over 4 hours. They were a little long. 98. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Greg Biffle is now having engine problems, so his lengthy stay atop the championship standing appears to be coming to an end today. And there was also reports of smoke inside Brad Keselowski's car, as he's currently third-to-last among the cars running. 99. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hard hit for Kahne. I think he'll still make the Chase though. 100. Mr X posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well top 10 number 400 for Jeff Gordon wont happen today. Dale Jr wont win, and Joey Logano might win, I feel dirty typing that now. 101. Schroeder51 posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, Jeff is going to be the only Hendrick driver to miss the Chase...and probably by a country mile seeing how his season has gone. 102. joey2448 posted: 06.10.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course Jeff Gordon pits with about 25 laps to go. Jeff always pits. The 24 team always pits at every single chance they get. No matter which track, they pit. Of course I'm sarcastically exaggerating it a little, but when does the 24 team not pit? Well, at least him and Junior don't have to worry about fuel now. They can just go as hard as they can. 103. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dumb move to pit there. No race strategy ability in the HMS camp outside of Knaus. 104. NadeauFan91 posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh look, more phantom yellows. They really want Joey to make it to the end don't they? 105. Woodbridge posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, at least they showed the debris. 106. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, really. When Gordon has to win to have ANY shot of the chase, his team needs to make GUTSY calls, even if he ends up finishing worse (and it's hard to imagine him finishing worse than he has). Fuel only instead of tires. Making as few pit stops as possible. Going off-sequence to try and steal a win. Etc... etc... They're being way too conservative for his points position. If it was Biffle or Kenseth or Junior trying to make sure they didn't run out of fuel every time, it would be understandable... "penske should move allmendinger to the #12 indycar and will power to the #22 nascar." I'm half expecting Allmendinger to replace Briscoe (he's won ONE race since he choked the 2009 title, that being the 2010 race at Texas where all he had to do was outduel Danica - not very hard). That could be great for him in the same way that Franchitti moving from Ganassi's NASCAR team to his IndyCar team was great for him (even though it screwed Dan Wheldon over). But Power in NASCAR would be horrible. As opposed to everybody saying Justin Wilson sucked on ovals before last night (when he didn't REMOTELY have the equipment to be able to compete on them, which I always found patently unfair) I think after Power's choke by chopping Tony Kanaan last night, I think we can say he DOES suck on ovals (his only oval win was in a gimmick race where Dixon and Franchitti artificially drew low starting positions with no cautions...) If Franchitti (who is much better on ovals) failed, Power would too. Penske needs to pick a stock car ladder guy to replace Allmendinger. But Allmendinger replacing Briscoe would be a GREAT idea (I half think that's one of the reasons AJA signed to Penske's Cup team in the first place...) 107. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin vs. Logano. I SO do not want to see either of them winning because I want Logano to be fired and Mark Martin has made me sick since leaving Roush and trashing the Roush equipment (Harry Gant is INFINITELY COOLER and I do NOT want to see his record broken). 108. Silence Dogood posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At a boy, Joey! Great move! 109. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Pocono Raceway: where you can watch legends get the bumper put to them by overhyped talentless hacks (2000, 2012). 110. Schroeder51 posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, now I'm pretty confident Joey is going to be driving the 20 car for many years to come... 111. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And in both cases it was because of dumb pit strategy by others...Rusty should have won the 2000 spring Pocono race and Junior or Hamlin honestly SHOULD HAVE won this one... 112. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey, you better start driving like this EVERY single week from now on if you want to stay in your ride. 113. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Conclusion: Logano is an @$$. He is now on the list of guys who deserve to have another walk up to them and bust their face open. 114. Mr X posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Slogano won, he's a star, he's sliced bread, he'll still need more to keep his ride. Excellent strategy by Gustavson and Letarte. Worst race I've ever seen at Pocono. 115. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2000 all over again, wouldn't be suprised Logano's career ends up like Mayfield's 116. NadeauFan91 posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't like Logano, but I gotta admit that was a pretty good move at the end. Had he wrecked him, I'd probably be singing a different tune. 117. Moldy Bread posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano will get his eventually, and hopefully it'll be real bad. There hasn't been a more disrespectful driver out there in god knows how long. We've seen it takes little talent to win on reconfigured tracks (does Hornish's win at Phoenix last year ring a bell to anyone?) Logano will go back to being awful the rest of the year and will hopefully earn his rightful place in the unemployment line with Brian Vickers. 118. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ultimately, I'm okay with it because I did NOT want to see Harry Gant's record broken when to me Mark Martin has become completely unlikable (and he used to be my favorite 15 years ago...) But ugh, this is quite hard to swallow as well. Why did Junior have to pit? Such a dumb move. I don't like Junior either but I would have been able to accept that more easily than Logano or Martin... 119. Spen posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really wanted Mark to win this one. Mainly because I wanted to be younger than the race winner one last time... 120. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HOORAY The Bulldozer won! 121. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nobody gets fired after a winning season in any series (usually) unless they piss the owner or sponsor off (Ernie Irvan, Kurt Busch, Paul Tracy...) 122. Silence Dogood posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, who the hell pissed in all of your guys' cheerios this morning?? Give Logano some freakin' credit, he ran great all day and made a great move on Martin at the end. To be honest, the racing was a LOT better than I thought given the re-pave. Pretty decent race in my opinion. 123. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is a legit win on a legit track but hate away haters. He won. (i don't like Sliced Bread either but he won on a legit track.) Joey didn't wreck Mark, so i'm fine with it. If he did, tar and feather, burn at the steak and shot him at dawn. But he didn't do it that way. Note to Dale Jrs. CC: what where you thinking? Possibly nothing at all. JaimeMac needed that top 10 run. Overall, good race. 124. joey2448 posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...And Mark Martin STILL can't win at Pocono, lol. His seventh runner-up at this track. Way to go, Joey!!! Great race today! The 24 team screws up again, whatever... 125. JG24FanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good run for Gordon today, I can't imagine the team having a better performance, and I can't wait for the next race because man for a Gordon fan this season is good as it gets,cannot wait for the next race! 126. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully Michigan with it's new surface will be good like this, I have a feeling Kansas later in the year will be a Fustercluck like LVMS 2007. 127. Mr X posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Excellent post race interview by Tony Stewart. Talking about Pocono's unfortunate repave, saying that at least Pocono made it a long time before the repave. 128. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great weekend of racing overall, certainly better than last weekend's. 129. joey2448 posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LOL did anyone just see Junior's post-race interview? He was silent for like seven seconds and asked if he could start over. The interviewer (name escapes me) just completely asked his question again as if it wasn't live TV, haha. 130. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For those that criticized the move to pit Jeff Gordon with Dale, Jr., what do you expect? I said over and over that Alan Gustafson was brilliant at setting cars up, but is a terrible race strategist, possibly the worst in the sport, so that was expected. If any of the races Gordon won last year have had pit strategy come into play, he wouldn't have won any of them, either. Why he didn't top off like Stewart did is proof of that. Now Earnhardt's situation was more cut and dry. They were five laps short (and maybe even more), and running in the top five, so they couldn't chance staying out. Pitting for them was the right decision. And for a driver that's known as one that doesn't make mistakes, Mark Martin sure has a history of making them at the most inopportune times (remember the 2007 Daytona 500 he gave away?), though it looked like he was finally going to get one at Pocono,. but it wasn't to be. And congrats to Joey Logano, who pulled it off, beating three of the greatest in the history of the sport (Martin, Tony Stewart, and Jimmie Johnson). And Logano's move to win today was reminiscent of the 1998 race that Jeremy Mayfield won. Remember that Mayfield passed Darrell Waltrip with 20 laps to go to grab the win, his first in the series. Mayfield, from Owenbsboro, KY, idolized Waltrip growing up. Today's win by Logano was right out of that script. While officially the second in his career, it was the first going the distance, and who did he have to beat? Mark Martin, the very person who first discovered Logano six or seven years ago. And it's the first win by the #20 car that hasn't had a strange twist to it since the 2007 race at Chicagoland Speedway. The previous three wins for that car all had bizarre twists to it. The 2007 race at Watkins Glen for Stewart came only because Jeff Gordon spun in turn one on the next-to-last lap while leading, the 2008 win at Talladega was controversial because it wasn't actually the first to cross the line, but Regan Smith incurred a one-lap penalty for passing Stewart on the apron, giving Stewart the win, and the 2009 race at Loudon that Logano won in the rain. 131. Anonymous posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr looked pissed and rightfully so. Letarte pretty much screwed him out of the win or a for sure top 3. He pulled the same crap with Gordon though so I guess we can't be too surprised. 132. Cash posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would have been pissed off if i was JR too. He was in position to win, and Nascar knowing guys were saving fuel ran 3-4 more caution laps than they should have. 133. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I said over and over that Alan Gustafson was brilliant at setting cars up, but is a terrible race strategist, possibly the worst in the sport, so that was expected." I always thought Steve Letarte was worse. I remember that race at Las Vegas that Gordon dominated nonstop then took two tires while Johnson took four (while LEADING) and handed Johnson the race... I honestly thought Letarte to Gustafson was an improvement because Gustafson gave Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon several wins out of NOWHERE after several years each where they had struggled to win... 134. Mr X posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS the 20 car also won the 2007 Brickyard 400. 135. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow the haters on this site are getting really bad. Joey Logano definitely earned this win. Great race by him. I think this will propel this team to the chase. The team is excited and confident. 136. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nobody gets fired after a winning season in any series, Sean? Roger Penske once fired Tom Sneva after winning a championship (his second straight) because he wasn't aggresive enough, so you obviously don't know what you're talking about there, and plenty of drivers have ben fired after winning. And on the mistake that Martin made that cost him the race. That's the difference between him and someone like Terry Labonte or Bill Elliott. Had they been in that same position, I guarantee that they would never have made the same mistake Martin did. I n all the races I watched with those two, I never once saw either of them make a mistake in a late-race situation. And Sean, who would be a good stock car ladder guy to replace Allmendinger, because there's not many available that qualified on that front and those that are qualified are contractually tied up. And remember that Allmendinger wasn't even on Penske's radar until Richard Petty recommended him, which turned out to be a good thing for Petty. Penske was really after David Ragan, who he should have hired. At least Ragan has had good runs on numerous tracks (Richmond comes to mind), while Allmendinger has struggeld just about everywhere, except road courses, where he's most experienced. 137. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""I said over and over that Alan Gustafson was brilliant at setting cars up, but is a terrible race strategist, possibly the worst in the sport, so that was expected." I always thought Steve Letarte was worse. I remember that race at Las Vegas that Gordon dominated nonstop then took two tires while Johnson took four (while LEADING) and handed Johnson the race... I honestly thought Letarte to Gustafson was an improvement because Gustafson gave Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon several wins out of NOWHERE after several years each where they had struggled to win..." Yeah I agree with you on that. But Junior needs Latarte. He has some pretty severe depression and self confidence issues. I think him and Latarte are a good match. But Latarte is awful at race strategy. 138. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mr X, the 2007 Brickyard 400 came before the races I mentioned. And Sean, Gordon might have dominated the 2010 Las Vegas race non-stop, but I believe Johnson would have won anyway, even if Letarte had opted for four tires. What Letarte was afraid of was others going with two tires beating Gordon out of the pits and Gordon never being able to make it back by. Remember that Gordon has always struggled in traffic, and Letarte was deftly afraid of getting Gordon stuck in traffic. 139. Cooper posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr...... HAHAHA Reporter: What happened there at the end Dale? Dale Jr: "GHKIAA...HUH..................................." Reporter: No Response Dale Jr.: Takes a Swig of Mountain Dew Dale Jr.: Can we start over? Reporter: Sure! Moldy Bread beats Wrinkly Bread in a battle at the end. Overall a decent race. Brad Keselowski....lol....Does he even check his pit speed before a race, or does he just wing it every stop? God Damn. This ain't 1988 Brad. This race ended basically the same as the 2000 Mayfield/Dale Sr. battle. 140. Baker posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're all a bunch of hypocrites. You all love Earnhardt for tough moves like today but now hate on a young kid for the same move. He did nothing dirty. He out drove 3 of the best ever today with Martin Stewart and Johnson unable to get to him at the end. He's still younger than most people start their cup careers. 141. Anonymous posted: 06.10.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though Letarte's horrible call screwed him out of a possible win, Jr fans should be very optimistic going forward. He looks like a legit championship contender for the first time since '08. No matter how bad some of Letarte's race strategy is, there's no doubt he has resurrected Jr's career. 142. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nobody gets fired after a winning season in any series, Sean? Roger Penske once fired Tom Sneva after winning a championship (his second straight) because he wasn't aggresive enough, so you obviously don't know what you're talking about there, and plenty of drivers have ben fired after winning." I'm aware of Sneva being fired after his championship. I was talking about RECENTLY (using the '70s as a basis for judging today's racing is a bit off). You would not see a winless champion fired today in F1, Cup, or IndyCar, period (the Penske of today has certainly mellowed out - if he were as harsh as he was with Tom Sneva, Kevin Cogan, or Al Unser in the '70s or '80s today, Helio Castroneves, Ryan Briscoe, Al Unser, Jr., Jeremy Mayfield, and honestly Kurt Busch would have been fired way before they were). Basically the only way drivers get fired NOW is by underperforming, losing their sponsors, or ACTIVELY pissing the owner off (as Tracy, Kurt, and Mayfield have done...) The '70s was a different era...handshake deals, less elaborate contracts, a lot more part-time schedules, and more team-hopping in general. David Ragan wasn't fired. He just lost sponsorship. Jamie McMurray was fired after a winning season, but that's because Roush had to reduce from 5 to 4 cars. I think Ragan and McMurray both would have been kept otherwise. Teams are maintaining mediocre drivers FAR longer than they did in past decades... 143. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And obviously I know Castroneves and Briscoe weren't fired, but judging by the HISTORICAL standards of Penske in IndyCar, they both should have been after last year... Especially with people like Bourdais, Wilson, or Servia available who would blow both of them out of the water... Sure, in the '60s and '70s top drivers were fired all the time even after winning seasons if they clashed with the owners (most of Bobby Allison's career). That's hardly the case now...unless again a driver alienates the sponsors like Kurt Busch did. 144. murb posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good job by Joey today. I give him credit for actually earning a legitimate win in a Cup race. But I still don't think he is the best thing since sliced bread. He's always been good at Dover and Pocono. He ran well all day last week at Dover. And since he's been in Cup, he's had good runs at Pocono. He was top five for the race last August as well. He even almost fluked into the win there because of rain. But on every other "driver's track", he's gross. He sucks on the road courses, and he's bad at most of the short tracks (even though he can occasionally pull out a good run at Martinsville and Bristol). The rest of the tracks he runs good on are the cookie cutters. So I really do not think of him as a great driver right now. But personally, I do think he'd be much better off going to a different team to reinvent himself. He was thrust into the spotlight way too early at JGR, and he's been suffering from that ever since. And even though now he's mediocre, he still is only 22. So he can only get better as a race car driver. This might sound a little extreme, but I think the perfect place for him would be the 22 car. Let's face it, AJ has been a complete dud this year. I personally think AJ just overdrives these stock cars way too hard. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see him go run Indy Cars full time for Roger and forget about Nascar. So, think about it. Joey could go in there next year and have just one teammate in Brad K, who has a similar amount of experience in these Cup cars as Joey. (Plus, they've worked well together at the restrictor plate races in NNS.) I think that could be a good combination. And maybe Joey could take Ratcliff with him, because it seems like Todd Gordon doesn't know what the hell he's doing with these Cup cars. But in a smaller team like that, maybe he could thrive just a bit more. He could become better, and I think he could learn a lot from a guy like Brad. And maybe, he could become a legit week to week contender at a place like that. I don't know, I just think that would be a good situation for him. (By the way, if this were to happen, who would my pick be to take over the 20 car? Again, a little extreme, but hear me out. Marcos Ambrose has done an incredible job this year. I think if he had a little better equipment, he would be able to win multiple races on all different types of tracks.) 145. Bronco posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I always thought Steve Letarte was worse. I remember that race at Las Vegas that Gordon dominated nonstop then took two tires while Johnson took four (while LEADING) and handed Johnson the race... I honestly thought Letarte to Gustafson was an improvement because Gustafson gave Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon several wins out of NOWHERE after several years each where they had struggled to win..." I feel the exact same way. Steve Letarte is brilliant at setting up a car and making in-race adjustments but his in-race strategy is often puzzling. The same thing happened at Las Vegas, when Dale Jr dominated the first part of the race and was untouchable in clean air, then once he pitted for four tires while everyone else took two, he had to claw his way back just to finish 10th. "They were five laps short (and maybe even more), and running in the top five, so they couldn't chance staying out. Pitting for them was the right decision." No, it was not the right decision. For a team that's been at the top of the points all season long, why wouldn't you risk it and stay out, especially given the fact that the driver and team haven't won in 4 and 3 years? I simply don't get why the 88 team was trying to play it safe. Even without the final caution, the number of caution laps for the previous one was good enough for the 20, 55 and others to make it. After pitting, Dale Jr easily made up back to the top 10, but predictably he wasn't going to be able to catch the leaders. Mark Martin losing to Logano that way is either borderline inexcusable. Nothing wrong with Logano moving him out of the groove, but Mark with all his experience should have had no problem holding the 20 off for a few laps. First race without Kurt Busch since Homestead 2005. It's unfortunate because he always runs well at Pocono and would have probably finished higher than wherever Reutimann did. "Nobody gets fired after a winning season in any series (usually) unless they piss the owner or sponsor off (Ernie Irvan, Kurt Busch, Paul Tracy...)" You can add Justin Allgaier, Reed Sorenson, Dan Wheldon, and most recently John King to that list. 146. BON GORDON posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OH MY GOD!!!!! Jeff Gordon and his team are idiots!!!! Stay out save fuel and risk it!!! I knew when he pitted a Top 5 or 10 was out of the question. Barely got a Top 20. Its time to retire cause Im sick of this crap every week. He shoulda stayed out. Sorry thats how i feel. I would rather have him run out of fuel going for a Top 5 than making an idiodic call and pit like a pansy and finish 19th!!! 147. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also said usually. There are always exceptions, but there have been few really egregious fires since the following three: Damon Hill after winning the '96 Formula One title because Williams wanted to pump up Jacques Villeneuve and Heinz-Harald Frentzen, Ernie Irvan in '97 right after his Michigan win after he pissed off Texaco, and Joe Ruttman in '98 after finishing third in points in the trucks (because he was very old...) Since 2000, who has gotten fired after a winning season due to lack of performance (not alienating the owner a la Evernham or Kurt, or lack of sponsorship a la Ragan, or being forced to truncate a la McMurray)? Not many that I can think of recently... Anyone since Joe Nemechek in 2003 at Hendrick? Joey is safe. And I didn't like it when Earnhardt or Gordon won even with the bump-and-run. But they did not use it in EVERY ONE or even MOST of their wins. If Logano ends up winning 10 or 20 races or something, it won't bother me anymore... 148. Sean posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, Bronco's list. King ran out of sponsorship, right? Wheldon was egregious (I hated the way Ganassi just forced him out because he struggled on road/street courses, rather than giving him a shot in Cup when he was the best oval driver in IndyCar). Allgaier and Sorenson I'll have to check. I admit I pay NOWHERE NEAR as much attention to Nationwide as I did ten years ago, because I stopped watching when the Buschwhackers took over. 149. Bronco posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Allgaier and Sorenson I'll have to check. I admit I pay NOWHERE NEAR as much attention to Nationwide as I did ten years ago, because I stopped watching when the Buschwhackers took over." Allgaier won the spring race at Bristol by beating Brad Keselowski but lost the #12 ride because Verizon was leaving due to some stupid exclusivity contracts. Sorenson's situation was worse since he won Road America and was 3rd in points but still got canned in October. King ran out of sponsorship only three months after winning Daytona, Ted Musgrave and Johnny Benson won the truck championship but lost their rides due to their teams shutting down, likewise Hornaday lost his ride last year with KHI closing. In the 90s, I think Joe Ruttman lost his Truck ride even though he was winning with it. Newman may lose his ride to a lack of sponsorship this year, and he just hasn't been that good. 150. 10andJoe posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd have to say Joey earned that one. Nice work. Now the trick is to keep it up. 151. Bronco posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First win for a pole sitter since Ryan Newman at New Hampshire last July. This was actually the first top 5 for a pole sitter even in the 2012 season. With Logano winning, it gets even harder for Jeff Gordon to make the chase unless he wins 2 races before Richmond. Carl might win a Michigan race, and Ambrose will get one of the road courses, Montoya might finally get Indy. 152. BON GORDON posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Um Jeff Gordon is done Bronco. Of course everyone from 11-20 in points will win! Gordons luck, strategy, cars, whatever is crap! I say give Harry Gant the #24 car with any other crew and he will finish better. 153. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 06.10.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You're all a bunch of hypocrites. You all love Earnhardt for tough moves like today but now hate on a young kid for the same move." You know, with some people that might be true, but some people legitimately hate on dirty driving no matter who does it, including when Earnhardt ran Cup. Do you realize how many people rooted against Earnhardt throughout his career? He had SO MANY HATERS. There are hypocritical people out there, but not everyone who disagrees with Logano moving Mark wouldve automatically been totally down with Earnhardt doing it. And frankly, while I'm a big fan of "heads up", clean, hard racing... I really wasn't all that bothered by Joey pulling up to Mark's bumper like that. As far as Jimmie Johnson, he was absolutely flying at the end of that race. He caught those guys really quickly, I was shocked. He didn't have any time of course to get to Joey. But yeah, I hate it when people whip out hypotheticals with zero proof and call it fact. URRRR EVERY1 WOULDA BEEN OK IF EARNHARDT DID IT URRRRRRR APPARENTLY I HAVE ZERO RECOLLECTION OF EVERY RACE THAT EARNHARDT GOT BOOED OUT OF THE TRACK URRRRRRRR 154. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Bronco, Steve Letarte knows very little about setting up a race car, but is one of the few crew chiefs today that will take a risk on fuel mileage. But five laps at Pocono can't be any more different than five laps would be at Bristol, Martinsville, or even Dover. If Letarte would have gambled and tried to get to the finish, Dale, Jr. night have finished 28th (the last car running). Letarte made the only decision he could make. It's not his fault that there was another caution that probably would have allowed him to mae it to the finish. After all, how many times over the years has Steve Letarte been the one to gamble on fuel mileage? He's stolen about 10-15 top five finishes with Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. on stretching the fuel when his cars had no business being among the contenders. On the other hand, Alan Gustafson is the opposite of Letarte in every way. He's usually brilliant at setting cars up, but is probably the worst race day startegist on pit road. And Sean, you mentioned that Gustafson got Mark Martin and Jeff Gordon back to victory lane semingly out of nowhere. That's not true at all. Martin has several close brushes in 2007 and '08, but finally had a team behind him in 2009. And last year when Gordon won three times, how many times did he come close to winning in 2009 and 2010, but failed to? And Alan Gustafson is good only for one year at a time. That was proven with Mark Martin and is being proven again with Jeff Gordon. That's why I didn't think Gordon would have such a good year this year, and with the next two races figuring to be strategy-fests different reasons, don't look for Gordon to be anywhere near the front when the race is over, because Gustafson is the worst race day strategist in the sport today, and it was proven again today. 155. Anonymous posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty good race for Pocono, but NASCAR has to figure out a way to do something about the start-and-parkers, this is getting over the line. 156. StewartSmokesEm posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love seeing Logano win if for no other reason than to shove it in DaleSrFanForever's smug f***ing face to show he CAN win. So Logano's win isn't just a victory for him and his team, it's a victory for everyone here who has to put up with that obnoxious know-it-all every god d*** week. 157. 10andJoe posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Pretty good race for Pocono, but NASCAR has to figure out a way to do something about the start-and-parkers, this is getting over the line. Why? 158. 10andJoe posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1 sponsor: Banana Boat Sport #33 sponsor: Circle Sport Racing (plain black car) #38 sponsor: ModSpace (where did TRG come from??) #49 sponsor: JPO Absorbents (no AIR logos) #74 sponsor: Turn One Racing (plain black car) Also, the #98's owner should be Phil Parsons, not Mike Curb, and this needs to be fixed going all the way back to Martinsville. 159. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Obviously the bump n run is part of stock car racing, and often one of the more compelling parts of racing. The knowledge that it can be used makes things more exciting. But you gotta admit, there is a hollow feeling when watching somebody who has floundered in the big leagues for years with only an occasional smattering of success (Mayfield in '00, Logano in this one) use it to beat a legend, a first ballot HOFer. Especially in this one cause Mark has never used his bumper, even when he should have at times. At least in '00 it was a turnabout of fair play. 160. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I watched it live, as you most likely did, and I can't really tell whether Logano actually used the bumper or not. It looks like he used the air to loosen Mark up and then made the move underneath him, If there was any contact, it was the slightest bit, which is very much unlike what Mayfield did in 2000, when he hit Earnhardt hard enough to knock the rear tires off the ground. But that should never really have happened, and wouldn't have if someone like Bill Elliott or Terry Labonte would have been in the #55 car, because they wouldn't have made the mistake Mark made to put himself in that position to begin with. And yes, 10andJoe, the start-and-parks are getting out of hand, but I have no real problem because the Cup teams aren't putting multiple start-and-parks in the same race, and that is where I draw the line. But there would have been 10 start-and-parks in this race if not for the second crash, as two of the three cars involved were start-and-parks, or at least had no intention of running the distance. Remember my pre-season prediction of double digit start-and-parks in Cup races? The races at Pocono were the ones I specifically targeted, but there may be others, as well with double digit start-and-parks. 161. joey2448 posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR said the reason so many cars were getting hit with speeding penalties was because the timing lines were changed from the last race here. But the pit road speed limit is still the same, right? If that's true, then drivers should be going the same speed they're used to, right? It shouldn't make any difference. I guess guys know about where the timing lines are, so they speed up and slow down to gain an advantage, but that shouldn't make a difference. If it takes (hypothetically) 2 sec to go 100 feet, and the new timing segments are 80 feet, that means it will take 1.6 sec to cover the new, 80 foot, segments. The "surges" that drivers take are still neutralized by the fact that they slow down immediately after. 162. wow posted: 06.10.2012 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not going to say Logano win was not legit or its the bump and run that bothered me, it was doing it to Martin that makes people mad. He is so unaggressive he mines as well of mugged him for his wallet too, and he would not do anything. 163. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason that so many cars were hit with speeding penalties, including Jimmie Johnson twice in a row, was that the teams were not given the correct maps in terms of the timing lines, or not given maps at all. And the TNT broadcast crew showed why they're the best in NASCAR, because they actually questioned NASCAR's decisions on the situation, unlike FOX and ESPN, because when's the last time either ESPN or FOX ever quaestioned NASCAR on anything related to judgement. The last imte I can think of was that wacky finsih at the Nationwide race at Road America when NASCAR originally proclaimed Ron Fellows the winner, when he clearly violated at least two rules regarding running under the caution. It wasn't until several minutes after ESPN (Andy Petree specifically) questioned NASCAR's call that they reversed it. Today, Kyle Petty and Wally Dallenbach, Jr. (who should be in NASCAR Race Control running things) outright questioned what was going on to create all the speeding penalties against some of the top drivers, especially at least one who slowed down to well below the speed limit, based on his tach settings and what they do on the pace lap to set their pit road speed, and still was called in for speeding. What the problem obviously was concerned the final segment, and whether it ended at the scoring line, or the yellow blend line. 164. 12345Dude posted: 06.10.2012 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To anyone that says that nascar is fixed, I think this race for sure proved that it's not. If nascar is fixed there is no way there would of been that many caution laps. Because "nascar is fixed, and fixes races so Junior and Jimmie Johnson can win". 165. JG24FanForever posted: 06.10.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 14 races for Gordon #1 blown engine #2 decent 8th place finish #3 horrible car all race and pulls out an undeserving 12th #4 freak blown tire while running in Top 5 #5 Gas can penalty+Rain out equals Top 5 turned to 26th #6 The most pathetic circumstances i've ever seen in a race #7 34th to 4th best finish of the year still shy of 200th Top 3 #8 dropped a cylander while running Top 8 #9 cut tire early traps him laps down for the rest of the race #10 turned head on into the wall #11 2 cut tires on what? #12 good run at Charlotte hampered by "untimely" caution #13 strongest car he's had at dover since 2001 #14 what a f**king joke! Gordon pits from the Top 5 for a 19th?!? for the love of god how can so many things happen? 166. Ed posted: 06.10.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon DESPERATELY needs Ray or Robbie back on top of that pit box. This is sickening. 167. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If there were 100,000 people at this race, then I'm the King of England, because there were scores of empty seats in the grandstands at Pocono. The only way there were 100,000 there today is if they got about 35-40 thousand in the infield area, because by the look of it, there weren't any more than 60,000 in attendance today. 168. Anonymous posted: 06.10.2012 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Obviously the bump n run is part of stock car racing, and often one of the more compelling parts of racing. The knowledge that it can be used makes things more exciting. But you gotta admit, there is a hollow feeling when watching somebody who has floundered in the big leagues for years with only an occasional smattering of success (Mayfield in '00, Logano in this one) use it to beat a legend, a first ballot HOFer. Especially in this one cause Mark has never used his bumper, even when he should have at times. At least in '00 it was a turnabout of fair play." This post encapsulates pretty much everything wrong with the modern NASCAR fan. Overly-sentimental for the past, hypocritical (especially coming from an Earnhardt fan), and unbelievably biased. Congratulations, you are one of the reasons casual fans are turning away from the sport. It's not worth it to try and enjoy the races and root for young guys like Logano (he's 22 by the way, what the f--- were you doing at that age that's so impressive?) because "expert" fans like you don't want to do anything but crap all over the new drivers and the current state of racing and try to ruin it for everyone else. 169. Jill posted: 06.10.2012 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah all u morons weren't not at the race I was there and that's a good song btw and btw I met norm benning after he was at race he almost as cute and nice and funny as don Thompson was in the ARCA race yesterday 170. Matthew Tesfaye posted: 06.10.2012 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon will come back for good and MAKE THE CHASE! 171. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.10.2012 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle has had no luck this year, well, luck kind of made it up to him at Richmond... 172. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.10.2012 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @cjs, In 2010, a local Pocono area newspaper got a professional attendance group (did political rallys, football ect) and a helicopter and after counting the amount of RVs and motorhomes (timed each by 3) and estimated the Grandstand attendance they came up with 41,700. In case every single RV was full with an unusual amount of people in them the maximum margin of error as 48,000. NASCAR estimated the attendance as 100,000 and of course they refused to comment to the newspaper after the race. This looked even emptier than 2010, and the Charlotte estimates a couple of weeks ago were a joke. 173. Spen posted: 06.10.2012 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To distract us from the flames for a second, I thought I'd do something that we can look back on and laugh about later. Spen's championship predictions for the next ten years! 2012: Jimmie Johnson 2013: Jimmie Johnson 2014: Denny Hamlin 2015: Kasey Kahne 2016: Hesitently, Jimmie Johnson. This is the year I'm least sure about. 2017: Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. 2018: James Buescher (driving the #24) 2019: One of the Dillon boys. I'm leaning towards Ty. 2020: Kyle Busch (he has to win one at some point, and the '18-'20 era is really his only window.) 2021: Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. 2022: Joey Logano Now let's watch as 10/11 of those end up being inaccurate (the only correct one being this year's, of course.) 174. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.10.2012 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @cjs. Look at this Pocono Record article done on the 2010 Pocono race to see how big a joke many of NASCAR's attendance estimates really are and what happens when actual experts estimate it:http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100815/NEWS/8150330, with the extreme highest margin of error for this particular race, the highest attendance could have been was 48,000, less than half of the 100,000 NASCAR estimated. This year looked even less packed than 2010, and the Coke 600 and Dover estimates appeared to be way off. 175. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TeamPlayersBlue, I agree with you on what you say about attendance. I'm just saying that if facts, such as attendance figures, are posted, they should be open to fact checks, part of which is the "eyeball test", and the eyeball test told me that there were a maximum of 60,000 there. Also, although there wasn't that much racing for the lead today (most of the 19 lead changes were through pit stops and restarts), back in the pack, there was pretty good racing, as cars back there seemed to run closer together than in recent years, though up front, it was still spread out. I'll be interested in what we'll see next week at Michigan, especially if they use restrictor plates, or some other device to slow the cars down. If they use a device at Michigan to reduce horsepower next week, it may be just like the 1970s and early 80s again, because the cars will then lack the power to have one just drive away from he rest. And if lap speeds exceed 200 MPH, which I think they may wth ease, NASCAR may be forced to use a horsepower-reducing device, though unlike at Daytona and Talladega, it would only be until the track ages, which will slow the cars down by itself. 176. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.10.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, once again more problems with my comments that contain links, repeated a comment I thought had failed to send. 177. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.10.2012 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Frustration for myself as a Marcos Ambrose fan, but that's what happens when everything gets shuffled up at the end like that. I don't like Logano or Mark Martin, but the move Joey pulled I don't have a problem with, because it's been shown time and time again that in NASCAR, stuff like that is not just permitted, but encouraged. I don't like seeing a race decided by contact, but if the rules state that it's ok, then it's fair game, right? (This here is probably why I don't have a problem with Carl Edwards). Speeding penalties; remember that NASCAR does not give out penalties based on actual speed, but average speed. Those that were penalized are those that were flaunting the line - play with fire and you'll get burnt. I personally think that the system is quite ridiculous and would much rather see a couple of guys with radar guns as well as live GPS tracking on the cars, dishing out penalties based on absolute speed, rather than average. 178. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, the problem with the mulititude of speedinmg penalties isn't how the speed is judged, but rather the fact that apparently the teams didn't know where the timing lines were, which means teams were getting caught speeding that may not have been speeding. Again, at least one car slowed down and was still ticketed for speeding, and even the commentators wondered what was going on, even questioning whether the penalties were legitimate for quite a while. And as for Joey Logano's move on Mark Martin that decided things, if Joey hit Mark, it was a very slight nudge, if he touched him at all, because from what I saw, the air from Logano's car had more to do with Mark getting sideways than the bumper on Logano's car did. But again, that should never have happened, because Martin made a mistake that allowed Logano to get on his bumper to begin with. If not for that mistake, we would be talking about Martin knocking Harry Gant out of the record books as the series' oldest winner, at exactly the same place where Gant first earned that claim, and in fact, in the same race that Gant first became the Cup series' oldest winner in 1990. 179. Cornys posted: 06.10.2012 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Average speed is easier to prove however. That's why it remains in use. GPS would be telimetry which NASCAR opposes. Messing with the loops will cause penalties if you don't know where the loops are. I don't think they SHOULD be told where the zones are. If they speed they'll get caught that way. Just show them where speed limit starts and stops. Simple solution. Great race todya regardless. Good amount of excitment and good race to the finish even for this Mark Martin fan. Pass was certainly fair. Logono was being held up, and Mark got loose so he ran into his rear end. That's racing. 180. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.10.2012 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just show them where the speed limit starts and stops". Yep, that's a step in the right direction for sure. Whilst average speed is easier to prove, it's also easier to exploit. My problem with the average speed system, is that NASCAR has decided on what the maximum speed on pit road should be - for safeties sake - yet the cars are still able to drive faster than that speed and get away with it. A speed limit should be exactly that - the maximum speed that a car is permitted to go. Exceed that speed, you get penalized. However, with the average speed system, you can flaunt that and get away with breaking the limit. I can't support a system that allows that. 181. MStall41 posted: 06.10.2012 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am of the camp who is praying to see Plate Racing next week at Michigan. It would be a much needed boost to track that is otherwise quite boring. If the racing turns out to be anything like it was in the 70s and 80s, NASCAR Nation will go bananas with excitement. Michigan rocked back then. cjs, how realistic do you think the prospect of plates at Michigan really is next week? 182. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MStall41, it all depends on what happens in the test on Thursday. If lap speeds are what I think they might be (around 202-205 MPH), NASCAR will have to take measures to cut horsepower. In what way, shape, or form, I do not know. Restrictor plates, which actually debuted at Michigan in 1970, are the most tried and true method, though they could also restrict the gear settings to slow the cars down, or use a tapered spacer, similar to the Truck series at Daytona and Talladega. If lap speeds are between 195-200, they'll probably leave it as it is, with probable gear changes to slow the cars down. One thing's for sure. They won't shatter the track record like they did this past week, because that would put lap speeds at about 202-204 MPH, and that's unacceptable in NASCAR's eyes. If they're that much over 200 MPH, expect restrictor plates, though not uite as restrictive as they use at Daytona and Talladega. And that would only be a short term fix until the track ages. That alone would cut speeds to where they wouldn't need any engine restrictions within 2-3 years. 183. Cornys posted: 06.10.2012 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let them run free at Michigan. Let 'em go! 184. MStall41 posted: 06.10.2012 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But how much of a drop in speed is necessary to facilitate pack racing? It can't be much right? 185. Rusty posted: 06.10.2012 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I only caught the last 15 laps of this one. I had some things going on and with my driver being suspended, I didn't make much more of an effort to clear time. (it is getting harder and harder to keep sticking up for the guy when he keeps making the same mistakes. I love him and he is a good guy, but his temper is going to ruin his career if it hasn't already. He is lucky if Finch lets him back in the car at Michigan). But I was impressed with Logano at the end, he didn't wreck Mark, he went all out for a win that he HAD to get. He likely won't be in position to do it very often, he needs to capitalize and get the wins when he has the chance. Especially with his job on the line. 186. LordLowe posted: 06.10.2012 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So when do you think Gordon will retire. My Prediction 2016 or 2017 187. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.10.2012 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To anyone that says that nascar is fixed, I think this race for sure proved that it's not. If nascar is fixed there is no way there would of been that many caution laps. Because "nascar is fixed, and fixes races so Junior and Jimmie Johnson can win"." NASCAR is 'fixed' didn't you know? It is rigged. Note: contains alot of sarcasim 188. murb posted: 06.10.2012 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, you've tempted me... My absolutely, completely far fetched championship predictions for the next ten years. 2012: Denny Hamlin (He learned a lot in 2010, and I think this year, they can out-duel the 48.) 2013: Jeff Gordon (Comes back hungry after a disappointing 2012, and out battles the inexperienced 2 team of Keselowski.) 2014: Brad Keselowski (Learns from the previous year, comes back, and wins it.) 2015: Brad Keselowski (Back 2 Back. Get the joke? Can't you see that on the back of his car, since Miller comes up with those clever taglines?) 2016: Kasey Kahne (Finally gets his first one.) 2017: Kyle Busch (He'll be 32 years old at this point, so I think he'll finally get a grasp of how to win one.) 2018: Kyle Busch (If he figures out how to win one, he's undoubtably got enough talent to get multiple.) 2019: Austin Dillon (Will be pretty seasoned at this point, so I imagine he'll be able to win one.) 2020: Kyle Busch (Gets his third one, basically solidifying him in as this generation's DW. Plus, I think by this point, he'll be more of a fan favorite too. Just like how most of the so called "bad guys" in the past have turned into "good guys".) 2021: Darrell Wallace, Jr. (Becomes the first black champion in history, and starts on his path to being one of the stars of the 2020s.) 2022: Carl Edwards (Finally gets his first and only title at the age of 43. Sort of like how Bobby Allison didn't get his first championship until much later in his career. And then, Carl retires and becomes the next great former driver tv analyst.) *Sidenote* (You'll probably notice that I didn't include Jimmie Johnson in this. That's simply because I have no idea how much longer he is going to drive, and how much longer that team is in tact. If he and Chad do stay together over the next four or five years though, I would probably expect one more title.) 189. MStall41 posted: 06.10.2012 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @188 I really cant disagree with those predictions. Well thought out and quite beliveable IMO 190. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's the thing. They would only have to cut about 100 horsepower, instead of 300-400, as they do at Daytona and Talladega, to keep the speeds under 200 MPH, which is why there may be other options on the table if speeds at Michigan get too high, and using a tapered spacer would be an option, as would going to an insanely high gear ratio. They would only need to cut the speeds by 5-7 MPH to bring them back to a safe range for the spectators, and that's why they use restrictor plates at Daytona and Talladega, to protect the fans in the stands, not the drivers. And cornys, the catch fences at Michigan are light years behind Daytona and Talladega, in terms of the ability to keep cars from going into the stands, as well as not being near as high, because they've never faced the possibility that stock cars speeds would ever have to be reduced, so they've never really done anything with the catch fencing there. What happened at Atlanta in 2010, with Brad Keselowski's car getting into the fencing may have been an eye opener, but I'm not sure anything has been done at Michigan. One good thing is that, unlike at other places, they run next to the wall on the dogleg instead of away from the wall and back to it, which greatly reduces the possibility of a car getting into the catch fencing, but at the speeds they'll be going, cars could very easily get airborne if they get sideways, and with NASCAR redicing some of the downforce, that becomes an even greater possibility, especially with NASCAR raising the side skirts. Remember that, although it is rare, cars have lifted at Michigan running significantly slower than they will be this coming weekend, so restrictor plates, or something else to cut down on horsepower, is very possible, if not likely if speeds get too high during the Thursday test. 191. MStall41 posted: 06.10.2012 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You have to imagine that if NASCAR has the opportunity and/or excuse to bring pack racing to a track, they will take advantage of the opportunity. These people aren't complete fools, they know pack racing would help sell more tix and put more butts in front of TVs 192. cjs3872 posted: 06.10.2012 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And MStall41, remember that with just 18 degrees of banking, even if restrictor plates are used, the cars will still have to handle, so the possibility of cars running in one big wad of extended periods of time are not very high, because handling will spread the field out somewhat. But again, we're putting the cart ahead of the horse right now as far as restrictor plates next weekend. We'll see what happens Thursday and Friday. However, there was talk about them being used this weekend, but that's all it was. 193. MStall41 posted: 06.10.2012 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just think plate racing at Michigan would provide a nice balance between competitive racing and needing a good handling car to win, much like pre repave Daytona (and to a much lesser, but still viable extent, post repave Daytona) 194. Bronco posted: 06.11.2012 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne showed why despite his 600 win, he isn't automatically a championship contender now. He came in on a streak of 7 straight top 10s and was in position for another one today, until he made contact with the #11 and cut a tire and crashed. He just doesn't have the week to week consistency that you need to make the chase and win a championship. Brad Keselowski was pretty weak given that he won here with an injured ankle last year. This year's championship will come down to Biffle/Kenseth vs. Earnhardt Jr/Johnson. Johnson and Biffle have the raw speed, but Kenseth and Earnhardt Jr seem more consistent week to week. 195. 10andJoe posted: 06.11.2012 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >and btw I met norm benning Good trick since he was in Texas this week. 196. Talk4Tar posted: 06.11.2012 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sometimes a blind squirrel finds a nut... 197. 10andJoe posted: 06.11.2012 - 1:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #49 status: handling 198. 10andJoe posted: 06.11.2012 - 1:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #36 status: handling 199. Anonymous posted: 06.11.2012 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great race. Good job to Logano, great move. He did something most won't do, he did what he had to do to win because he wanted it SO bad. I love seeing that. Good race though, sucks Kasey wrecked, would of had 8 straight top 10's easily. JR had a chance to win but shit happens, another great run and a top 10. Hes been easily the best driver this season. So the typical Gordon and Kyle Busch fans can shut the f**k up about JR being a redneck king and how much he sucks because he has more top 10's this season than both Kyle and Gordon combined. Joey proved hes worthy. Now the Logano haters can go cut their wrists. One more thing, TNT sucks. Adam Alexander is a joke and I could shit crap out more exciting than his announcing. Put Ralph Sheehen in or Leigh Diffey, or my mom. She could announce a better race with more knowledge, emotion, and personality. 200. 10andJoe posted: 06.11.2012 - 1:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If TNT sucks, I hate to think what you think of FOX and ESPN, considering that TNT >>>>>> them... 201. irony posted: 06.11.2012 - 2:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark sure likes to finish 2nd at Pocono. MM isn't someone who I would pull that move on. You gotta race people how they race you. Even Montoya, who everyone thinks is an azz, didn't do that to Mark when he had a chance at NH a few years ago. BUT I don't have a big problem with it because Mark had time to come back and retaliate. Mark would never do that, and that's a big part of why he was the victim, and a reason why despite being an elite driver he has no championships to show for it, and a modest amount of wins compared to other drivers of his ability. 202. 18fan posted: 06.11.2012 - 2:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The speeding penalty problem was a result of the drivers not realizing where the last timing segment ended and where they could accelerate to rejoin the racetrack and it was farther down pit road than it used to be and it caught out multiple drivers. 203. Smiff_99 posted: 06.11.2012 - 2:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) TNT is the BEST, hands down....however, I'm not a fan of Adam ALexander. They need to put Ralph Sheheen back in the booth....he was AWESOME in 2009 when he ended up with the job after Bill Weber had his little 'incident' during the Loudon weekend. 204. murb posted: 06.11.2012 - 3:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) TNT is totally, by far the best. They make me feel like they are right in my living room watching the race with me. They just give off this cool vibe. I think Adam Alexander does a good job, but they were better with Ralph Sheheen. I'd rather see him in the booth for TNT and see Adam stick with Speed Center full time, because he does a good job over on that show. 205. kup posted: 06.11.2012 - 5:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) UPS - universal points system. Driver`s Rank = Distance / Aver.Finish 741 Matt Kenseth - best Ford 713 Dale Earnhardt, Jr, - no wins & no mistakes = best Chevy. 655 Greg Biffle 612 Denny Hamlin - best Toyota 514 Kevin Harvick - best Childress 496 Martin Truex, Jr, - best Waltrip 473 Jimmie Johnson 433 Clint Bowyer 430 Tony Stewart - best Stewart-Haas 380 Brad Keselowski - best Dodge 377 Carl Edwards 360 Paul Menard 349,7 Kyle Busch 349,6 Joey Logano - worst Gibbs? 328 Ryan Newman 306 Kasey Kahne 302 Mark Martin - veteran run just 11 of 14 races, but ranks very well 291 Jeff Burton - this veteran run all 14 races, but is worst Childress? 290 Marcos Ambrose - best Petty & best Oceania driver 286 Aric Almirola 281 Jamie McMurray - best Ganassi 265 Juan Montoya - best Latin-Am driver 246 Jeff Gordon - worst Hendrick! 232 AJ Allmendinger - worst Penske! Why they push out Kurt Busch? 231 Bobby Labonte 230 Regan Smith 213 Kurt Busch - weak #51 team compared to #24. Maybe try to ex-change them? 206. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.11.2012 - 7:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Plates or no plates, a repaved Michigan is gonna be coma inducing. I'm ready for Sears Point. Irony, good point that even JPM wouldn't bump Mark out of the way. That says a lot. That is the biggest difference between this race and 2000. At least Methfield bumped a legend that built a persona on using his front bumper. 207. uma posted: 06.11.2012 - 8:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) some notes, and observations, and thoughts... Jeff Gordon will make a big turn around soon. however, Jeff Gordon will Never win another cup title, an inconsistancy issues year after year after year is a solid proof of that pudding. Jeff Gordon will likely reach 95-100 wins for a career total, But Jimmie Johnson will hopefully eclipse that as he has with Jeffs titles. Jimmie Johnson Will surpass Earhardts 76 wins. agree or disagree anyone? Jimmie Johnson will likely reach 7-9 titles for a career total. Jimmie Johnson will win the title this season to become a 6 time champion. Tony Stewart will likely surpass 60 wins in is career, stalling out somewhere beyond the 60s, maybe 70s. agree or disagree anyone? Tony has another title in him, most likely to come within the next 4-6 years. Stewart will likely lead 16,000+ laps in his career. Joey Logano is extremely annoying and sometimes quite disrespectful. agree or disagree? Kyle Busch is also a extremely disrespectful and annoying. and quite frankly, a brat. and this comes from someone way younger then Busch. And he will Never be a cup champion. Has the talent and equipment to win somewhere from 1-3 races every season, and sometimes more if things fall his way. However, once the totals add up and reach their end, it will become more obvious and apparent, he was never a Jeff Gordon or Jimmie Johnson or Tony Stewart for that matter, and was always 2nd tier to them and perhaps other drivers. Maybe that will provide a dose of Ego medicine. Denny Hamlin will be a champion before Edwards or Busch ever would. mark it. Denny Hamlin also has an Ego, but is more talented than Kyle. Hopefully Logano will lose the ride that he has. Newman is extremely annoying and a never was. Has Yet to finish in the top FIVE in points beyond 10 years of fulltime racing. His smug attitude and witty comments are often stomach churning. How short are some peoples memories? Carl Edwards is still the big bully of nascar and if provoked the right way, will ignite that bipolar side again. Simply accepting defeat in a gracious manner is not enough to forget all of his actions from before. What else can he do? whine and cry on camera? It was a natural action to smile and accept and say all the right things. However Carl, the way you fake punch your teammate Matt in 2007 and all your other incidents, you wont be forgiven so easily in some peoples minds. And it appears as if Carls trend is continuing, after coming so close to a title, the following year or 2 years is complete junk , to best sum it up. Look for Carl to miss the cut this season unless people have bad luck. Mark Martin likely is going to become 2nd best in all time t10 finishes. 208. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.11.2012 - 8:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) uma, get the uma out of your system and come back sober. Those predictions, some of them at least, are utterly ridiculous. They are not practical. Stewart has the ability to still be winning when he is Mark's age, and I think if Mark doesn't, Tony will beat Gant's record. As for Cousin Carl, I think he will end up with one title in a Bobby Allison-like fashion where he wins bunch early, stays consistent, and turns it on down the stretch. Don't forget that he averaged a 5.0 in the Chase, so he knows how to keep the heat on. 209. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.11.2012 - 8:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As an extra note, Stewart had the worst stats of a champion since Bill Rexford. 210. cjs3872 posted: 06.11.2012 - 9:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF and irony, you mention that Juan Montoya wouldn't use the bumper to knock Mark Martin out of the way at Loudon a few years ago. Believe me, he wanted to, but Mark's car was too fast that day. Remember that this is a guy that once wrecked his own teammate at Mexico a few years ago to win a race in the Nationwide Series, so he would have knocked Martin out of the way at Loudon, if his car was good enough. It just wasn't. Pure and simple. 211. DaleJrFan posted: 06.11.2012 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know everyone will get on me for saying this (thats their right) but i kind of think Hendrick had Kasey crash on purpose to bring out at caution so Dale Jr wouldn't win. I think Hendrick would rather go to jail for the rest of his life than let Jr win. This is just me thinking and I am probably wrong but it is just wieird that every time Jr has a shot to win something happens. 212. 10andJoe posted: 06.11.2012 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #211: What are you smoking and where can I get some, because it's clearly some pretty primo stuff. There. Is. No. Anti-Jr. Hendrick. Conspiracy. End of line. 213. cjs3872 posted: 06.11.2012 - 11:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, post #211 doesn't even deserve a response, which is why I didn't post one. 214. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.11.2012 - 12:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least there are logical (though unprovable) arguments to the Jeff conspiracies... Steve Letarte screwed up; live with it. At least he doesn't have the biggest retard this side of the quadrant for his crew chief. DaleJrFan seems to be more of a fahn. 215. cjs3872 posted: 06.11.2012 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I disagree, NicoRosbergFan. Steve Letarte did not screw up when he called Dale, Jr. to the pits. He knew they couldn't make it to the end, and weren't even close. Letarte is noted for gambling on fuel if it's close, so the fact that he didn't tells you that Dale, Jr. would have been about 5-7 laps short. How many times have we seen him gamble on fuel, either with Jeff Gordon or now with Dale, Jr. That's also why he did not bring Dale, Jr. in to top off on the previous caution, because he knew they were short even had they stoped then. Jeff Gordon, on the other hand, has not only had the worst luck this year (although Kyle Busch is starting to get into the running for that), but also has the worst crew chief when if comes to strategy decisions, so Gordon will not likely be a factor to win until the Firecracker 400. After all, next week's race at Michigan figures to have a lot of strategy in it, and there's always strategy in a road course race, so with Gustafson calling the shots, I wouldn't expect Gordon anywhere near the front near the end of the race because of that. 216. Daniel posted: 06.11.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michigan entry list: -Trevor Bayne in the #21 -Ken Schrader in the #32 -Austin Dillon in the #33 -Kurt Busch back in the #51 -Stacy Compton in the #74 217. Schroeder51 posted: 06.11.2012 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #211...I said it once, and I'll say it again. People like you are EXACTLY why I will never be a Dale Jr. fan. Why, I wouldn't be surprised if you also didn't believe we went to the moon. 218. Anonymous0 posted: 06.11.2012 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know most of the people here don't like Jr fans. But have you guys ever thought that #211 is trolling? Not saying he is or isn't because I really don't know but is it possible? Just throwing that out there since everyone throws us all together in one group because a few people can't keep their crazy to themselves. 219. cjs3872 posted: 06.11.2012 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, we know that with Austin Dillon in the #33 car, that it won't be a start-and-park as it's been in recent races. And with the #21 car back, that's one more car that will try to go the distance. We don't yet know about the #51 car for Michigan. Last week, there were only 33 cars trying to go the distance, meaning there were 10 start-and-parks, though at two of them (36-Raines and 49-Yeley) were involved in the second crash. We also don't know about the #13 car. Now, I don't think that TBR would be S&P'ing the #36 car if they weren't so far ahead of the 36th place car in points. The difference between 35th and 36th is 55 points, more than a full race, though the #21 could be moving back into 36th with a good race at Michigan, and could conceiveably get close to 35th with a good race at Daytona, despite running fewer than half the races this season. But how many others will start-and-park? I'd say as many as seven, but there won't be as many with the 21 and 33 (with a Childress driver) in the field. 220. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.11.2012 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think DaleJrFan is actually providing excellent satire. Surely he isn't serious. If he is just doing a parody of Junior Nation, then I tip my hat to him for excelling at what is becoming a lost art: satire. Best sports fan parody since Tommy from Quiznee on the Kissing Suzy Kolber blog site. 221. NadeauFan91 posted: 06.11.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm so glad I switched my name over so I wouldn't be confused with #211. 222. NadeauFan91 posted: 06.11.2012 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I don't think he's trolling. This guy came around a while back, and didn't pull anything like that dumbassery before. 223. Talon64 posted: 06.11.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano picks up his 2nd career Sprint Cup Series win, his first since his rookie season in 2009 (went 104 straight races without a win), from his 4th career pole. It's also his first top 5 finish of 2012, but he's currently averaging a career-best 12.4 avg start and 16.0 avg fin. His 49 laps led in this race is a new career-high. In fact, 93 of his 198 career laps led have come in the last two Pocono races. It's his first top 10 in 7 Pocono starts (18.0 avg fin). It's Joe Gibbs Racing's 97th career Cup win and 9th at Pocono, which ties Richmond and Atlanta for their most at any track. It's the 2nd time (since JGR went to 3 full time teams in 2005) that all 3 teams have won a race in the same season. The #20 gets it's 36th win all time. 2 with Logano, 33 with Tony Stewart and 1 with Marvin Panch. Mark Martin finishes 2nd for the 7th time in 51 Pocono starts. Pocono joins Dover as the two tracks that Mark Martin has 20+ top 5's at, and it's his 7th top 10 in his last 11 Pocono starts (11.7 avg fin) but his first top 5 in the last 13. Mark equals his top 5's from all of 2011 (36 starts). He hasn't won a race since 2009, but has at least 1 runner-up finish in each of the last 3 seasons. Toyota finishes 1-2 for the 2nd time this season, both times with JGR first and MWR 2nd. Tony Stewart's feast-or-famine season continues, as he picks up his 5th top 3 finish of the season versus 5 finishes between 22nd and 25th (no back-to-back top 5's yet). But those 5 top 3's tie Jimmie Johnson for the most so far in 2012. Pocono becomes the 6th different track that Tony Stewart has at least 10 top 5's at, the fifth with exactly 10 (19 top 10's, 11.5 avg fin in 27 starts). It's his 5th top 3 finish in the last 8 Pocono races. Jimmie Johnson finishes in the top 4 for the 3rd time in 4 races, and finishes 4th for a 3rd consecutive race at Pocono (5 straight top 10's and 10 in the last 11 races). Denny Hamlin picks up his 5th top 5 in the last 7 races. Hamlin led laps for a 6 consecutive race at Pocono (360 of 1164 laps, 30.9% of the laps) but hasn't finished better than 5th in the last 4 (6 top 3's in his first 9 starts). His average finish improves to 9.3 in 13 career Pocono starts. Clint Bowyer scores back-to-back top 10's for the 3rd time this season, but will be looking for a season-high 3rd straight at Michigan. It's his first top 10 in the last 4 races at Pocono, but his 8th straight top 20 there (4 top 10's, 10.6 avg fin). Matt Kenseth, who made his 450th career Cup start, picks up his 10th top 10 of the season, giving him 11 straight seasons with 10+ (including 5 with 20+, and he's on pace for his 6th). Pocono becomes the 10th different track that Kenseth has at least 10 top 10's at, but it's just is 2nd in the last 8 races (13 straight top 20's, with 5 top 10's and a 11.8 avg fin). His 11 laps led were a career-high for Pocono. Dale Earnhardt Jr. picks up his series-leading 11th top 10 of 2012, just one less than he had in all of 2012. 9 of them have come in the last 10 races. It's his 3rd straight top 10 at Pocono, but just his 9th in 25 starts there (16.7 avg fin). Paul Menard gets his 20th career top 10 finish in Cup (197 starts), and first in 10 races. It's his 2nd straight top 10 and 5th straight top 20 finish at Pocono (12.4 avg fin, 21.6 in 11 career starts overall). Jamie McMurray also gets his first top 10 in 10 races, and just his 4th in 19 Pocono starts (21.7). He needs just 1 more top 10 to reach 100 for his career. 224. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.11.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I know everyone will get on me for saying this (thats their right) but i kind of think Hendrick had Kasey crash on purpose to bring out at caution so Dale Jr wouldn't win. I think Hendrick would rather go to jail for the rest of his life than let Jr win. This is just me thinking and I am probably wrong but it is just wieird that every time Jr has a shot to win something happens." This is one of the reasons why i continue to slam NASCAR fans with rubbish such as this post. Someone said on one of my Youtube videos that "Kurt Busch INTENTIONALLY wrecked his (and Newmans) car so that Jimmie Johnson could win Darlington." I didn't bother responding to the guy because he is so full of s**t. 225. cjs3872 posted: 06.11.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think we now know why there were so many problems with speeding penalties at Pocono. It turns out that NASCAR may have had the recording device where the segment speeds are located in the last segment at the wrong place. On Race Hub tonight, it was shown that the last line was supposed to be the yellow blend line, but the recording device was actually set about one car length short of that. Because of that, the cars were said to be going too fast, when in fact, they were within legal limits. The difference is that the cars were traveling a shorter distance at the proper speed, where NASCAR had a longer distance, so if they were traveling that dstance in the same time, they would, in fact, have been speeding on pit road. Had that recorder been where it was supposed to be, there probably wouldn't have been any problems. The speeding penalties were a result of a NASCAR error, despite what Robin Pemberton said, which he said to cover for NASCAR's now obvious error. Kyle Petty and Wally Dallenbach, Jr. were right on the spot with their analysis, as usual. That's why they're the best anaylsts in the sport today. 226. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.11.2012 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Mistake is a mistake. But it didn't affect the race that much most of the penalities were at the start of the race. But still, a NASCAR error and a foolish one at that. I know it will proably not happen again. 227. cjs3872 posted: 06.11.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure about that, 1995 Subaru WRX STi. Had Jimmie Johnson not been penalized twice in a row, he probably wins the race, because he never got up to see the leaders until the end, when it was too late. Johnson was the biggest victim of NASCAR's error regarding the positioning of the sensor in the area of pit road in question when it came to the penalties. If NASCAR hadn't put the sensor in the wrong position, Johnson wins the race easily because he had the fastest car in the second half of the race. 228. 10andJoe posted: 06.11.2012 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The question is though, if it /was/ a sensor issue, why wasn't it getting /everybody/? 229. . posted: 06.11.2012 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #228, if the sensor was only off by a few feet, the difference in speed would have been fairly minimal. It would have been enough to catch the drivers who push their speed close to the limit but wouldn't have affected the drivers who are more conservative with their pit road speed. There were also multiple guys (I remember Kenseth specifically talking about it after the race) that probably slowed down more than normal because so many had been caught before them. This slower speed was probably slow enough to prevent going over the limit, even with a shorter than expected difference. 230. . posted: 06.11.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^To make that more clear, I meant that the difference in actual speed and the calculated speed by NASCAR would be fairly minimal. 231. cjs3872 posted: 06.11.2012 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was a sensor placement issue, and one reason it wasn't getting everybody was the fact that by the first series of pit stops occurred, there were only 31 cars left in the race, so 14 out of 31 cars was a much higher percentage than actual starters. Also for guys at the end of pit road closest to turn one, it was virtually impossible to speed unless they had a brain cramp. I also think that green flag stops had a lot to do with it, though there were at least three repeat offenders, Jimmie Johnson, Brad Keselowski, and Jeff Burton (about the only times he's been accused of going fast since the beginning of last year is when he's been caught speeding on pit road). Certainly the drivers were told not to even go the speed limit, but to go about 500 RPMs under. Remember that because of where the sensor was located, that if a driver was going the speed limit in the last segment, that he was going to be tagged for speeding, because it's judged by time in a sector, but when that sector is improperly shortened, it's going to make it look like they were speeding because they're being timed a shorter distance, but their computers are measuring the full segment, so a quicker time in a shorter segment means a faster speed over a longer segment. In response, the drivers were doubtlessly instructed to run lower RPMs in that segment, which may have contributed to some of the engine problems. Kyle Busch's engine broke under caution, and Brad Keselowski and Greg Biffle also experienced engine problems, and at least some of that can be attributed to having to run fewer RPMs thatn intended on pit road, because idling it like that can damage the engine. 232. Smiff_99 posted: 06.11.2012 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey Talon64, I *think* this would actually be the THIRD time all 3 of JGR's cars won in a season, cause all 3 visited victory lane in 2008 AND 2009 233. cjs3872 posted: 06.11.2012 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Though, Smiff_99, this would be the first time that all three got there by earning it, because the wins by the #20 car in 2008 and 2009 were about as cheap as they get. I also wonder how Tony Stewart and Greg Zipadelli felt as the team they built into a NASCAR power finally earned their way back to victory lane for the first time since Tony left Joe Gibbs after the 2008 season? Especially Stewart, since he actually saw the race winning move take place from third position. With this win by Joey Logano, I truly believe that Joe Gibbs Racing has established itself, along with Rooush-Fenway, as the tw top organizations in the sport. Now before you ask what about Hendrick? Remember that Hendrick has only put half of his cars in victory lane, and I don't think the other two cars are getting there this year, or if they do, it will be because of luck and strategy (which takes Gordon out of the picture), not how good their cars were in that given race. 234. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.11.2012 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The question is though, if it /was/ a sensor issue, why wasn't it getting /everybody/?" Because of the 5mph tolerance that NASCAR allows. If the speed limit is 55mph and you drive down the entire pit road at 59.9mph, you won't get penalized. However, drive down it at 60.0mph and you'll get done. The teams are all aware of this and some of them choose to exploit that tolerance to gain an advantage in the pits. They knowingly drive faster than the speed limit, but lower than the tolerance so as to avoid a penalty. It just so happens that for this race, the tolerance actually meant something. Those that recieved speeding penalties are those that exploit that loophole. Is anyone really surprised that the #48 was done twice? Anyway, it's like I said earlier - play with fire and, eventually, you will get burnt. 235. cjs3872 posted: 06.12.2012 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think it's the 5 MPH tolerance that NASCAR allows that got so many people caught. If that's the case, then nearly half the field would get caught every week. It's the fact that they had the sensor in the last segment in the wrong location that was the reason so many were caught. The more aggressive ones are always going to be the most likely to get caught. Now guys like Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch probably lead the series in speeding penalties annually, if NASCAR keeps such a stat, but are always among the front runners. I do thin that having so may get caught so early in the race may have led to the engine problems that Kyle Busch, Brad Keselowski, and Greg Biffle had later on, because they may have babied it leaving the pits at some point later in the race, and could have damaged their engines as a result. 236. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.12.2012 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, you're right about the location of the sensor playing a part, but I mention the tolerance because I reckon that right there is the difference between those that did get caught and those that did not. If the misplaced sensor meant that the calculated average speed ended up being as little as 2mph higher, then it is quite concievable for the those who push the limit to be the ones caught. I'm also curious to know what makes you think that driving slightly slower through pit lane would have a negative effect on engines, because I really can't see how what you're suggesting is possible. 237. cjs3872 posted: 06.12.2012 - 1:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason I think that runing through the pits at lower RPMs could damage the engine is the fact that it might keep the RPMs below the minimum that the teams would want during pit stops and caution periods, and the result of that could end up burning a piston when the cars get up to speed because the engines could be leaned out a bit too much. I remember Wally Dallenbach, Sr. saying that excessive running under the caution flag (and through the grass) for Tom Sneva's crash was why his engine failed during the 1975 Indianapolis 500 when he was dominating. They ran 15 laps of caution for that incident and Dallenbach believed that was the reason he burned a piston. Jerry Grant also burned a piston not long after the restart from that incident. Now engine technology has, of course, changed since that race, but running lower RPMs than necessary could damage an engine because you're leaning the engine out, and any time you do that, you risk having an engine failure or a burned piston. 238. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.12.2012 - 3:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting theory - I didn't come to that conclusion at all. Perhaps it's something you would usually associate with an carburetted engine rather than a fuel injected one. I've never owned or worked on a carbed vehicle. By the way on the speeding thing, I'm in completely agree with you about the sensor locations. My theory about the 5mph buffer was in response to 10andJoe's question of how only certain cars were caught speeding. 239. cjs3872 posted: 06.12.2012 - 4:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah, that 1975 Indianapolis 500 was run with fuel injected engines, and Dallenbach said that slowing down and running slow for about 25 minutes is what caused his engine to fail. But like I said, engine technology has come a long way in 37 years, so it might not be that way any more. 240. uma posted: 06.12.2012 - 4:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My apologies if my thoughts offended anyone. Stewarts ability is never questioned, it is however the longevity of his career that is in question. He has the ability to race and win well beyond the age of 50, however, will he fall into an ownership role more? and perhaps be more of a Mark Martin and race a few times a year? Stewart has the talent level to go beyond 80 or 90 wins. (: and Maybe Kyle Busch will be a champion, but with the current state of mind and attitude, it would be really not refreshing. If Jeff Gordon can find consistency, perhaps another 2007 is not out of the question! and Jimmie Johnson, my thoughts on him, those predictions really are logical and well within reason. Nobody expected 5 titles in a row in 9 seasons. The thoughts on Kyle Busch maybe were illogical to a point, but ..read above. Another idea of a statistic to add to the driver rankings place on this site, would be ranking drivers on how many times they have... 100+ laps led in a race 200+ 300+ and so on However, The most interesting would likely be Total Races led" There doesnt seem to be a compiled list anywhere? Maybe someday soon, that stat could be added here!! (: these obviously are more interesting than DNQ and Earnings. My apologies to anyone offended. Maybe there is a forum for all of this Talk" but however this site seems to be a place to let free thoughts about racing so.. thats about all. 241. jr88fan posted: 06.12.2012 - 9:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh heck with it, I'll do some fun 2012-2021 Championship picks. 2012: Junior (if he wins a race) Hamlin if he doesn't. 2013: Keselowski (he's nearly championship material right now, and he'll break through more next year) 2014: Kenseth (his 2nd and probably last) 2015: Keselowski 2016: Edwards (after 2+ championship losses) 2017: Ky. Busch (see above) 2018: Stenhouse (replacing Kenseth or Biffle in 2014-2016) 2019: Either Dillon brother (Austin replacing Burton in 2013-2015 and Ty replacing Harvick in 2014-2017) 2020: Buescher or Allgaier (replacing ???) 2021: Piquet Jr. or Paludo (maybe replacing Menard, Earnhardt, or Johnson?) 242. uma posted: 06.12.2012 - 9:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just counted races led for Jeff Gordon and my count is 414 currently? races led. That is tied for 2nd all time with Bobby Allison. Didnt count his but if you type bobby allison april 2008 nascar.com""" into google browser, it will say he led 414 races total in his career. N if you type richard petty april 2008 nascar.com"" will say he led 599. So awesome for Jeff Gordon, if he leads 1 more race he will be 2nd alltime?? 243. Spen posted: 06.12.2012 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For a while now, I've thought that Buescher is going to be replacing Gordon in the #24 when the time comes. Turner's got the Hendrick connection, and Buescher's the only driver on the team who I'm sure won't get fired within the next year. Plus, Texan point racers fit the Hendrick mold well. Allgaier isn't going anywhere. I'll be surprised if Turner keeps him for next year. I expect Buescher to take over the #31 in Nationwide next season. Piquet could have a future, as a mid-packer who can win on road courses and occasionally contend on ovals. Paludo I don't see a future for at all. Ty Dillon will probably go to Childress' fourth team. I doubt Harvick will be ready to step aside yet, and Menard's got the dough, so he's safe. And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, Brad Keselowski will go nowhere in a Penske Ford. He's got the talent, and the crew chief needed to become a multi-time champ, but it will go wasted when they become Roush's new "b" team. 244. 12345Dude posted: 06.12.2012 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) These are my future predictions: 2012: Jimmie Johnson 2013: Matt Kenseth 2014: Ricky Stenhouse Junior 2015: Tony Stewart 2016: Jimmie Johnson 2017: Jimmie Johnson 2018: Jimmie Johnson 2019: Ricky Stenhouse Junior 2020: Kasey Kahne 245. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad to see I'm not the only one worries about Penske's move to Ford. Especially with them talking about beoming partners with Roush. That has "big step back" written all over it. Although Brad could do himself some favors by going two races in a row without screwing up in the pits. 246. 12345Dude posted: 06.12.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) forgot Kyle Busch these are my predictions 2012: Jimmie Johnson 2013: Matt Kenseth 2014: Ricky Stenhouse Junior 2015: Tony Stewart 2016: Jimmie Johnson 2017: Kyle Busch 2018: Jimmie Johnson 2019: Jimmie Johnson 2020: Kyle Busch 247. Talon64 posted: 06.12.2012 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hey Talon64, I *think* this would actually be the THIRD time all 3 of JGR's cars won in a season, cause all 3 visited victory lane in 2008 AND 2009" ah yeah, that's right. Kyle/Denny/Smoke in 2008, and Kyle/Denny/Joey in 2009 and 2012. also, JGR now has the most wins of any team so far in 2012 with 4. SHR and HMS have 3 each (6 for Hendrick cars), Penske 2 and Roush 2. RCR, RPM and Furniture Row are teams who won in 2011 who have yet to win this season, and MWR has 2 runner-up finishes but no wins yet. 248. Sean posted: 06.12.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, Talon was right before. We all know Tony Stewart didn't REALLY win a race in 2008... 249. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.12.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Yes Tony DID NOT win a race in 2008. (said race which i have denied Tony won since i first came on here). PAUL MNEARD WON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-P 250. cjs3872 posted: 06.12.2012 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, anything's better for Penske than his situation right now, mainly because he's got the only Dodge team in the sport right now, and if they get behind, which it appears they have, there really is no way for him to get back up near the front unless they hit on a setup by pure luck, because there's nothing for his team to compare itself to. Next year when they're with Ford, they'll have something to compare themselves to in the same manufacturer camp, so there's nothing but upside compared to where they are now. That's the biggest reason they're leaving Dodge in the first place. And Penske will not get pushed around by anybody, and I think Roush knows it. 251. JJSucks posted: 06.12.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan Smith won that race at Talladega I don't give a **** what the results say. 252. JJSucks posted: 06.12.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was talking about 2008 by the way. 253. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.12.2012 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ah, that 1975 Indianapolis 500 was run with fuel injected engines, and Dallenbach said that slowing down and running slow for about 25 minutes is what caused his engine to fail." Interesting. Were they running turbocharged engines? Because having a turbocharged engine fail under those conditions is quite possible. Two time V8 Supercar Champion Glenn Seton once famously lost the Bathurst 1000 when his engine expired after a safety car period. He was leading the race by two laps at the time.... 254. Spen posted: 06.12.2012 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But at least with Dodge, they were clearly "top dog" at their camp, so they got Dodge's undivided attention. As it is, it looks like at least one team (possibly RPM) will be making the switch to Dodge next season, so they would have had someone to bounce notes off of. And while Penske isn't someone who gets pushed around easily, Ford is far deeper in Roush's pocket than they were when Penske last ran Fords. If Penske's team starts outrunning Roush, he'll whine to Ford, and Penske's team will start running 20th. Incidentally, one thing we might want to take note of while making future predictions, is what I like to call the "eight year rule". 26 out of the 28 drivers that have won a title got their first one during their first eight seasons as a Cup driver. The two exceptions are Bobby Allison (for whom normal rules just don't apply), and Dale Jarrett (who actually could be made to fit, if you discount his first five seasons, when he was running junk). Using that logic, we can say with near-certainty that Dale Junior, Kevin Harvick, Ryan Newman, Jamie Mac, Greg Biffle, Kasey Kahne, and Carl Edwards will never win a title. And time's running out for Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin. 255. cjs3872 posted: 06.12.2012 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes they were, myothercarisanM535i. But my overall point was that any time you lean out an engine for whatever reason, you risk burning a piston. And Spen, how can you say that Dale Jarrett was running in junk the first five years of his career. Only when he drove for Hoss Ellington and Cale Yarborough could what he was running be classified as junk. But from 1990-'94, he recessitated the Wood Brothers and built Joe Gibbs Racing, winning three out of four years from 1991-'94, all on speedways, so I don't get where you could call what he was running in those years junk. He wasn't a consistent challenger until about 1993, but the cars he ran from 1990-'94 were quality cars. And also, there's a difference between being the "lead dog" and being the "only dog", and Penske has, for three years, been the "only dog" at Dodge. The problem is that when you get behind when you're the only team a manufactruer has, there's almost no way to catch up unless you get incredibly lucky with setups, and that's never been truer than it is now. Just look at what hapened when Roush fell behind in 2009 and early 2010. They would never have caught up as quickly as they did if it wasn't for Richard Petty Motorsports, another Ford team. And while it's true that RPM's good deed was never paid back, the fact is that had Roush been a lone wolf at Ford, he might still be trying to catch up because there is no other competent Ford team out there than Roush and Richard Petty Motorsports. Just look at Joe Gibbs Racing. They'd be behind if it wasn't for Michael Waltrip's team because there have been races in which Gibbs has been terible while Waltrip's team has been among the front runners, but because both are Toyota teams, they help each other to ther extent that both are competitve, and the results have been evident on more than one occasion this year. 256. Anonymous posted: 06.12.2012 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, 1992 was not Dale Jarrett's 5th year in cup and you shouldn't have brought up his Joe Gibbs years as a result since Spen was only talking about Dale Jarrett's first 5 years as a cup driver. Dale Jarrett's 5th year in cup was in 1991 with the Wood brothers. Dale Jarrett raced 24 times in cup in 1987 racing for Eric Freedlander and his first year in cup racing that he raced more than 3 cup races a year. Dale had bad equipment for his first 3 seasons as a cup driver starting with Eric Freedlander before he went to Wood Brothers after Neil Bonnett was hurt very bad at Darlington. 257. cjs3872 posted: 06.12.2012 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fair enough, #256. But I still wouldn't count his days with the Wood Brothers as part of when he was driving junk. And I thought his career in the Cup series got started in 1988, not 1987. My mistake. 258. Spen posted: 06.12.2012 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Woods' had scored exactly 0 top tens the previous season with Neil Bonnett. Granted, Bonnett had already had something like 27 injuries at this point, but they hadn't done much better with Kyle Petty in '88. And DJ's top ten totals were in the single digets during his two seasons there. "Junk" is perhaps too strong a word, but I don't see them as much better than today's RPM and EGR. Definitely not championship callibar, by any stretch of the imagination. Oh, and Carl Edwards should have been placed with Kyle Busch in the 'last chance' category. I only counted full seasons, which is how DW, Cale and Bill were able to fit my theory (yes, I'm aware that I'm skewing the facts to support the theory.) 259. Mr X posted: 06.12.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not to disprove your theory CJS, but typically burning a piston takes time, I don't think that a few trips down pitroad a few times with a few hundred less RPM is going to burn a piston 99.9% percent of the time. In fact, todays engines have oil squirters that tap into the oil passages along the lifter valley, and direct a constant stream of oil up the cylinder to the bottom of the piston, and the piston pin. That scenario I find unlikely, however what you're saying is true in that you absolutely can do damage to an engine, Darrell Waltrip once said that he wiped out a camshaft during the pace laps due to the low amount of oil flow. In fact in any engine with flat tappet lifters which NASCAR mandates amizingly considering considering the springs required to control the valves at 10000RPM's, and a new camshaft you must break in the cam, you must have the engine between 1500-2500 RPM for 20 minutes roughly, more RPM's and the break in isn't gentle enough, too few RPM's and the oil flow isn't enough, and new for this year is the port fuel injection, which is much more precise then a carb for the purpose of providing the correct air/fuel ratio to all 8 cylinders across the RPM range. 260. Eric posted: 06.12.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, Neil Bonnett had 11 top 10's in 1989, not 0. Neil had no top 5's in 1989 though. Neil had 0 top 10's in 5 races in 1990 before Dale Jarrett had 7 top 10's in 24 races. 261. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.12.2012 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is late but congrats to the Los Angles Kings on winning Lord Stanley for the first time. I'd also like to congrat the LA fans for NOT booing Bettemen out of the Staples Center last night and for not rioting for your team winning. For once, a fan base shows some class in and out of the arena. Shame other fan bases (some NASCAR fans included for doing the beer bombing of Jeff Gordon 2 or 3 times and soccer fans) can't do that. I hope Marty Brouder (sorry if spelled your name wrong Marty) doesn't retire. To make it the Cup final at age 40 is something special. But i can see if he does want to retire while he still has it. I hate to see athletes of any sport hang on too long. If he does retire, put him in the HOF the moment he does. IMHO Marty is a GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) for goalies. 262. ch posted: 06.12.2012 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to the Kings is right, Quick had quite a playoff run! Also, I'm pretty excited to see Dillon in the 33... Maybe if he gets in the car enough they make the top 35? Longshot, but who knows? It'll probably be a Childress car, but I think it would be cool to see what he could do in the Circle Sport junk, he probably wouldn't like that though! 263. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2012 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell yeah OKC, do that 3 more times. Like Dallas last year, you are my adopted team for these finals. Good job shaking off the early rust and big Miami lead and doing your thing. 264. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.12.2012 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I agree in theory. You need more teams, and the current relationship between JGR and MWR really showcases that. But the problem is who they are partnering with. I'd rather see them try to recruit some teams to the Dodge camp with their motors as bait (ECR? RPM?). Everybody who has ever partnered with Roush has fallen to shit. I trust Roger has got some promises from Ford on this deal. 265. cjs3872 posted: 06.13.2012 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, three or four teams would be ideal for information sharing, but one team can't do it alone, and that's what Penske's been up against for several years now. Two teams, if they're the caliber of Penske and Roush, can get it done. And let's not forget the Wood Brothers when they're at the track for their limited schedule also add to the pool of information when they're there, but that's only for half the races. And ch, I mentioned that because Austin Dillon is going to drive the #33 car this weekend at Michigan, that it's almost certainly going to be a Richard Childress Racing effort, meaning that team will try to go the distance, along with the Wood Brothers' #21 car, meaning that there aren't going to be quite as many start-and-parks this weekend. I figure that 6-8 cars will be start-and-parks, instead of the 10 at Pocono. I also think Childress would like to get the #33 car closer to the top 35 in points and farther away from the #21, which is 37th in the team standings. However, the #33 car is 55 points back of 35th, so it's going to be a long hill to climb, if the #33 even attempts th full races when Childres is not involved in the operation, as has been the case in recent races. 266. Spen posted: 06.13.2012 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did I say top tens? I meant top fives, sorry. 267. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2012 - 1:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson--> Best Ever. 268. John Royal posted: 06.13.2012 - 3:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My 2013-2020 predictions 2013: Joey Logano, because of a season long scoring error 2014: Jeremiah Johnson: Long lost twin brother of Jimmie (used to drive rally cars in China) 2015: Greg Biffle 2016: Mitsubishi Cyborg 4000: First non-human to win NASCAR title (drives Toyota btw) 2017: Rick Hendrick: Chad Knaus as his crew chief. 2018: Cope twins: Points are added together 2019: James Hylton: Because of economy, season is shortened to consist only Daytona 500. 2020: Some iRacing clown: Because of the economy, NASCAR has ended. 269. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2012 - 8:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 265 cjs, how did you come up with 10 start and parks for this race? wise, riggs, compton, bliss, nemecheck, mears, mcdowell, and leicht make 8 270. cjs3872 posted: 06.13.2012 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#269), the 10 start-and-parks for this race were the eight you mentioned, plus 36-Tony Raines and 49-J.J. Yeley. They would have also been start-and-parks if they had not been involved in the wreck when Reed Sorenson's engine let go on lap 13 (you can tell the engine let go because it looked like Raines and Yeley got in some oil right behind him). Raines would have parked it because he was pressed into serivce because of all that happened with Kurt Busch, and the chain reaction of driver changes landed him in the #36 car, which has been parking in recent races, because it's unsponsored for these races, plus it has a big lead over the #33 car for that 35th position, and the #49 car has been parking the last several races, as well. That's how I got 10 start-and-parks out of it. 271. Anonymous posted: 06.13.2012 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why doesnt Matt Kenseth have more wins? He is a very amazing talent. 272. cjs3872 posted: 06.13.2012 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One reason for that #271, is that he's notoriously a poor qualifier, though some of his biggest wins have come from back in the starting field. But because he's such a poor qualifier, he has a hard time getting to the front, but when he does, he usually stays there. He also is not known for taking a lot of risks. He'll accept fourth through seventh place runs rather than overstep his limits trying to go for a position that the car isn't capable of getting. That's a lesson he learned in 2002, when he won more races than anyone, but finished back in points, so he adopted the stealth appoach he's now known for, and in 2003, he won only once (though it was by the biggest margn of victory that season) on his way to the championship. Kenseth is in the mold of a Ned Jarrett, Benny Parsons, or Terry Labonte. He'll top five and ten you to death, and he won't generally make the mistake that kills you. When the car's there, Kenseth's as good as anyone, but he won't go too hard, and he won't beat himself. That's why he was Roush's first NASCAR Cup champion, and why he's the onl driver ever to win the Daytona 500 and a Daytona qualifying race, and the only rookie ever to win NASCAR's longest race, the Coca-Cola 600. It's also why he's the only driver Jack Roush has that can win a championship, and by the way, it's also why he just took the points lead at Pocono, and if nothing mechanical happens and the cars continue to be fast and sturdy under him, he should stay there for a while. 273. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.13.2012 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Royal, best championship predictions ever. The thing of it is, you will be wrong with your picks just as much as the others. I'm teling you, somebody unexpected will win the bulk of the championships from 2014 onwards. JJ has a few left in him, but with a championship this year (he is the best bet right now) he will have reached "invincibility" status which is often a kiss of death. We saw King Richard reach this in 1979 beating the much faster Waltrip-DiGard team in Petty's first year in GM products. Dale was here after '94 and even after '95, damn near erasing a 300+ points deficit in 4 races. And Jeff was here in 2001, just 30 years old with his 4th Winston Cup and 60 wins. In each case, people wondered "How far can they go? The sky is the limit!". But in each case, a combination of injuries, falling behind the technology curve, and bad chemistry stopped them from winning any more titles. And most telling of all, it was somebody unexpected who began a dynasty. After '94, did anyone really expect Gordon to win 3 of the next 4 titles and 4 of the next 7? And did anyone expect him to win 268 races over that span (my math might be a bit off)? Or how about at the end of 2002? After a stranger than hell season, and despite JJ's incredible run that season and brief points lead, it was one oddball season. Did anyone think his next 8 points finishes would be 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, and 1st? And again, my memories of NASCAR don't really kick in until 1989, but prior to 1986, did anyone see an Earnhardt dynasty coming? I'd really like some input from those who remember cause I am curious, but it seems like every tape I watch of a short track race from the mid 80s ends the same way: with a blue and yellow Wrangler car out there with a bent up, cockeyed front nose, 4 beaten in quarter panels, and at least 5 tire doughnuts on each side. Seems like the smart money back then, prior to '86 starting, would be on Darrell Waltrip continuing his dynasty (we didn't know him and Junior were gonna break up until mid season) or an Elliott dynasty starting. But again, I was just a toddler then, so I can't say for sure. My point is, if we could somehow go ahead in time briefly to November 2020 and look at the list of Cup champions from 2013-2020, we'd be mighty surprised. The only wrench in my theory? The talent pipeline is drying up due to the Cup guys pillaging the NWide Series, and owners much more comfortable recycling drivers than giving some unknown a chance. Logano will probably keep his ride in the #20 car not because of this win (I think after so many years in pro football and racing, The Coach recognizes a contract run when he sees one), but because they are terrified of giving somebody new a chance for some reason. And that is the one legitimate knock against JJ's run of success. The stagnation of the Cup Series in his run is ridiculous. As I've said in the past, compare the standings behind him in his first title season in 2006 (the last year new guys were given shots in good equipment like Denny, Clint, Truex, Yeley, and Stremme) and his fifth in 2010. Awful similar, huh? You can't knock him for all of his titles being cha$e titles (again, if we are going to recognize Richard Petty as the 1974 Winston Cup champ, then we must recognize all cha$e champs). But you can point out the soul crushing stagnation. 274. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.13.2012 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On NASCAR Now they just updated BMS and some drivers did a tires test their. It IS NOT the old Bristol (that single groove demo derby that fans choose to remember when in reality is was more then just old demo derby concrete version.) There is still the bottom and middle groove. and those grooves are still progressivly banked. You still have the "new" BMS minus the top groove. For some reason i think Bruton Smith just made one hell of a cash grab. Mileage will vary. 275. 10andJoe posted: 06.13.2012 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS - I don't thinl the 36 would have started and parked at Pocono; they had the SealWrap sponsorship on the car. The 13 is unlikely to park this week, they've just signed a two-race deal with Valvoline. The Valvoline Ford is back! 276. 10andJoe posted: 06.13.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And David Reutimann won't be in the 10 car this week - Tony Raines will be... 277. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.13.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The 13 is unlikely to park this week, they've just signed a two-race deal with Valvoline. The Valvoline Ford is back!" Germain Racing proably made one hell of a sell job on getting Valvoline on the hood of that race car. I hope they bring the old school paint scheme. OLD SCHOOL PAINT SCHEME MUST COME BACK!!!!!!!! 278. LordLowe posted: 06.13.2012 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 24 is the new 13 if you get my meaning 279. Talon64 posted: 06.13.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd also like to congrat the LA fans for NOT booing Bettemen out of the Staples Center last night and for not rioting for your team winning." Actually, shame on them for not booing Bettman because he deserves it. Always. Especially when next season gets locked out until January, or WCS we lose another season. But LA's used to winning sports championships, so it's no surprise they didn't riot. 280. cjs3872 posted: 06.13.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, where did I say that the #13 car was going to park this week? If you find such a statement, please bring it to my attention, because I don't remember saying such a thing. What I said is that we're at the time of the year where that car does some start-and-parks, but not at every race. Obviously with Valvoline on the car this week, they're going to try to go the distance. And as for the #36 car last week, the reason I said it was a start-and-park besides sponsorship was the driver they chose. The fact that Tommy Baldwin hired Tony Raines to run that race to me screamed start-and-park, but it may not have been. And even with the sponsorship, I don't know what the color was. Of course, the fact they ran just 12 laps before getting a wreck means we'll never know. Another reason that Tommy Baldwin may be S&P'ing the #36 car is to protect the #10, though with a 55-point lead on the #33 car in 36th, that would be hardly necessary, and the #33 has been a start-and-park, though it won't be this week, so the #36 is going to lose some of that cushion on the #33, and maybe even the #21 if it has a good week. 281. 10andJoe posted: 06.13.2012 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wasn't specificially saying you had, cjs, just commenting that it was unlikely, given previous comments in the past about how Germain tends to park over the summer. 282. cjs3872 posted: 06.13.2012 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well 10andJoe, Germain Racing has a history of doing start-and-parks after the one-third mark of the season, though they always try to run the full races up through Memorial Day weekend. That why I made that gemeral comment. The reason being that, although Geico is on the car the entire season, they only actually pay for about half the races (I think that number went up ever so slightly for 2012 to just barely more than half the races, maybe 20). 283. Talon64 posted: 06.13.2012 - 9:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "On NASCAR Now they just updated BMS and some drivers did a tires test their. It IS NOT the old Bristol (that single groove demo derby that fans choose to remember when in reality is was more then just old demo derby concrete version.) There is still the bottom and middle groove. and those grooves are still progressivly banked. You still have the "new" BMS minus the top groove. For some reason i think Bruton Smith just made one hell of a cash grab. Mileage will vary." So we won't be seeing this anytime soon? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZWVZ2oDrqQ still lame 284. cjs3872 posted: 06.13.2012 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He's the thing about Bristol that nobody else even cares to mention. No matter what configuration the track is, the race this fall will, as always, be neutered by it's position in relation to the Chase cutoff. Just look at recent runnings of the Bristol night races, even before the reconfiguration in 2007, and you'l see that the Bristol night races from 2004, the first year of the Chase, through 2006 were not very exciting. The reson was that the drivers had to be conservative, either because they were at or near the Chase bubble and needed a good finish, and could not risk getting someone mad at them, or they were trying not to affect the Chase, and raced conservatively around those at or near the Chase bubble. The configuration of the track has nothing to do with how aggressive the drivers are willing to be, but the race's place on the schedule in comparison to the Chase cutoff, certainly does. If there was one problem the the 2007 reconfiguration, it was that nobody could pass low, because the upper groove had such a big speed advantage. Now with that apparently gone, drivers can now pass low, while still being able to defend their position up high. The race in August will probably no be exciting becuase of it's position in relation to the Chase cutoff, so the true results of the latest reconfiguration probably won't be seen until next spring's race there, when the drivers really can be more aggressive. 285. Cooper posted: 06.14.2012 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "283. Talon64 posted: 06.13.12 - 9:15 pm" If this is true than that is just an epic fail. You waste more money and time and still don't give the fans what they want. A double fail. Impressive work by Bruton and NASCAR once again. 286. cjs3872 posted: 06.14.2012 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, we won't know until next spring because the racing will be conservative in August because of the Brstol night race's place in relation to the Chase cutoff, so the true impact on the racing the changes will bring won't be completely evident until then. Of course, with only about 35-37 cars even trying to run the distance, there will be more racing room because of the start-and-parks because thre won't be as many cars on the track, and with only 20-23 truly competitve cars and teams, that will lessen the competition even more. Certainly there will be more action this August, but the true test, at least for the Cup teams, won't come until next spring. 287. Rusty posted: 06.14.2012 - 3:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Phoenix Racing is keeping Kurt Busch, for now. He really needs to cool it though, the Phoenix people need to do the same thing for him that Gibbs PR people do for Kyle, just grab him and run to make sure he is calmed down and won't say anything dumb. David Reutimann appears to be kicked out of a ride for this weekend at Michigan. Tony Raines will be in the #10 while Dave Blaney is in the #36 for TBR. His career has taken a complete downswing that I'm not sure he can recover from. His awful season last year was probably his last grasp of air to keep a competitive Cup career going. AJ Allmendinger is a massive disappointment this season. He had a solid year last year at RPM that gave hope that he could compete for a win and the chase with a better funded Penske organization, but his 2nd place run at Martinsville remains his only top 10 finish in the whole season. Jumping ship to Penske on a 1 year deal may have been a bad career move for AJ, unless he picks up the pace he is unlikely to return. He may have been better off at RPM where he showed promise and probably had more job security. If he indeed loses his Penske gig, he may have a hard time finding work for a quality team. I think Ricky Stenhouse may end up in the #22 if Roush can't get sponsorship for him to run Cup next year. The dude is proving himself in Nationwide, he isn't going to want to hold still in that series and wait. It could be just like Brad Keselowski when he left the "Hendrick camp" to go to Penske due to concerns over when they could get him a Cup ride. Joey Logano may end up being a candidate if he loses his Gibbs ride, which is a possibility even with this win. MWR deserves some props, even though they haven't won yet this year, they bring quality cars every week to the track. The 00 was out to lunch last year and the 56 didn't show much. The 55 has been competitive this year, even with Brian Vickers and Truex looks like a candidate to win eventually. Bowyer is also his usual solid self, while not really leading laps and contending for wins. I end my long comment with my excitement that I got tickets to the Nationwide race at Daytona next month. I would've liked to do the Cup race, but at least I get to see something in person this year. Hopefully a memorable finish like February's race, but it seems like every race I attend in person is a total snore fest (2004 Pepsi 400, 2011 All Star race), with the one exception of the 2004 July Daytona Nationwide/Busch race. The one where Jason Leffler went nuts on the last lap and ruined a win for both Michael Waltrip and Dale Jr. and allowing Mike Wallace to sneak in and steal it. 288. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.14.2012 - 12:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If this is true than that is just an epic fail. You waste more money and time and still don't give the fans what they want. A double fail. Impressive work by Bruton and NASCAR once again." Bruton Smith (from my point of view) just lied to 160,000 people. And i'm laughing right now. Not only at Bruton but fans as well. You people b***hed and complained so much that he "had" to do something. So he did. he changed the track but he NEVER specified how much he was going to change it. He only removed the top groove and left the rest alone. So he lied to you people, and to boot, YOU people bought it. THAT is funny has hell. Bruton Smith is going to make a boat load of cash and you people will still complain. Life is perfect in the world of NASCAR. The good/bad vibe meter has not changed one bit. Of course, i might be wrong but i'm pretty sure i'm right. But i'll be glad to eat crow if i'm wrong. "I end my long comment with my excitement that I got tickets to the Nationwide race at Daytona next month." Have fun Rusty. Been to Daytona myself twice. Where are you sitting? 289. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.14.2012 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They are running over 200 mph at MIS today... Thoughts? 290. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2012 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson's Twitter video of michigan ride along is quite frightening indeed. 291. Daniel posted: 06.14.2012 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dang....Martin breaks 201 mph average. Please don't bring the restrictor plates. 292. Rusty posted: 06.14.2012 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure of my exact seats, but I know it is right about where they enter the tri-oval, not too far from the start/finish line. That is usually where I sit when I got to Daytona. I did sit in the suites behind pit road for the 2004 July races, and also got to sit in the suites for the Rolex 24 a few years back (can't remember the exact year, want to say 2009 though). 293. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2012 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Daniel, I don't think restrictor plates are needed yet. It goes to the fact only 4 of the driver of the 1st practice went over 200 MPH. The 2nd thing is it possible that speed happened in qualify trim. If those speeds are done in qualify trim, that means plates aren't needed. The third thing is those speeds happened in a practice that ended before 10:30 in the morning.That means the speeds happening at that time would be faster than they would be during the race. The 2nd practice today has speeds that aren't as fast as they were in the 1st practice yet. Tomorrow is the test in terms of speed in practice to see if they pick up for practice. 294. cjs3872 posted: 06.14.2012 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of note, there are only two drivers entered for this race that were in a NASCAR race that had qualifying speeds of over 200 MPH. One is Mark Martin and the other is Ken Schrader, who once qualified at over 208 MPH for the 1987 Daytona 500 driving for Junie Donlavey. So except for those two drivers, nobody entered has ever turned a 200 MPH qualifying lap in a stock car, so if restrictor plates aren't mandated, you may see the first 200 MPH qualifying lap since the 1987 Winston 500. But with straightaway speeds close to 220 MPH, I can't possibly see NASCAR not taking some kind of action to slow the cars down, at least in a straight line. I think NASCAR can tolerate the 180-185 MPH turn speeds, but not the 220 MPH straightaway speeds. The straightaway speeds, more than the overall lap speeds, is why I brought up the possibility of restrictor plates. After all, they're going faster going into the turns than what Bobby Allison was going when he encountered the engine problem which cause the indident that led to the modern restrictor plate era. 295. MStall41 posted: 06.14.2012 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nationwide cars are getting plates. Only a matter of time before NASCAR wises up and puts them on the Cup cars. Can't understand why anyone wouldnt want to see plates 296. Daniel posted: 06.14.2012 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch has ran a lap of 201.174 mph. Tony Stewart has also broke the 201 mph barrier. 297. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2012 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle also broke the 201 MPH barrier. 298. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.14.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Going to be restrictor plates I think with near 220 mph straight speeds, MIS has already had a tragedy in the grandstands when Fernandez's wheel went into the turn 4 stand in 1998 during a CART race. 299. Daniel posted: 06.14.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stewart just ran a lap of 201.896 mph. 300. Anonymous posted: 06.14.2012 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I checked the weather for MIS by going to weather.com. The tracks speeds for tomorrow and Saturday shouldn't as fast as today since there is a 7 to 10 degree difference. The temperature for the cup race for Sunday is closer to today in temperatures and that means the speeds today are a good indicator for Sunday if there is no plates on. 301. Talon64 posted: 06.14.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The speeds should lower as they get more rubber on the track, temps increase and they switch to race setups. Mark Martin tweeted that they were only doing race setups in the afternoon practice and he went from 201+ to 198. So I think it'll be fine for the race, but hopefully they'll be able to top 200 mph for qualifying. 302. joey2448 posted: 06.14.2012 - 11:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs3872 does have a good point. If the max speed the drivers are hitting is around 220, there is good reason to plate it up, even if avg speeds show 201. I've been thinking all week that there's no reason to use plates, but if a driver gets turned at the end of the frontstretch, there's a good chance his car will go airborne and who knows, it may fly into the fence, or worse...I don't even wanna think about what a tragedy that would be. 303. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.15.2012 - 5:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Due the gentle curve of the front stretch, they would not be able to get enough lift to get into the stands. Meteorologist here (meaning glorified physicist). 304. Smiff_99 posted: 06.15.2012 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't forget, folks, that after the disaster there in the '98 US 500, MIS raised their catchfencing up to 30 feel or so.....so that coupled with the way the fronstretch is curved, there's little to no chance of a car getting into the stands. The fence? Maybe, but not the stands. 305. cjs3872 posted: 06.15.2012 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's not foget that about eight or nine years ago, there was an incident involving Todd Bodine in which his car sailed into the catch fencing in turn two in the August race, so cars getting airborne at Michigan is not a novelty. And the Wood Brothers can tell you that a car can get airborne, because Elliott Sadler did exactly that in one of their cars in 2000. By the way, Trevor Bayne was third-fastest in practice in their car in the first practice today, which may make qualifying for the race a more difficult proposition, due to when qualifying will be held. On the other hand, Jimmie Johnson may be in the proverbial catbird's seat. He was only 31st in the first practice, but that means he'll go out early in qualifying, which is a much more preferred position to be in, especially with all his other teammates breaking the 200-MPH barrier. NASCAR really needs to do something to curb this practice of sandbagging in practice for races that have a Saturday morning or early afternoon qualifying session. 306. LordLowe posted: 06.15.2012 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think This Race is going to be a ClusterFu*k of gigantic proportions 307. 12345Dude posted: 06.15.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "On NASCAR Now they just updated BMS and some drivers did a tires test their. It IS NOT the old Bristol (that single groove demo derby that fans choose to remember when in reality is was more then just old demo derby concrete version.) There is still the bottom and middle groove. and those grooves are still progressivly banked. You still have the "new" BMS minus the top groove. For some reason i think Bruton Smith just made one hell of a cash grab. Mileage will vary." That's sucks. Atleast I can still race on it in NR2003. (best racing game there will ever be) "owners much more comfortable recycling drivers than giving some unknown a chance." Your not kidding. Let me name a few. I have no idea why owners wont take chances with drivers. Erik Darnell in the #40 nationwide race? Stephen Leicht's last 14 nationwide starts: 14 Starts 8 Top 10's 1 race for TBR finished 20th He won a race during the cup drivers nationwide dominance at the worst. When they won all but one of the races during the year. Kelly Bires never got a fair shot. Jeremy Clements kicking butt in the #51. Brian Ickler's nascar racing career the last 2 years: 11 Starts 4 Top 5's 7 Top 10's in the trucks. Brad Keselowski version 2.0 David Mayhew (3rd, and 3rd in trucks for KHI 10th in nw debut - all the races in nascar in decent/good equipment) Andrew Ranger Won in K&N East, K&N West, ARCA & Canadian Tire series in barley any starts. Trevor Bayne Someone give this guy a fulltime nationwide ride! Jeb Burton This guy needs a full time truck ride. Mayjor talent who will probably not race again this year. John King This guys wins Daytona in his first start, his first major racing win EVER and 5 races later is canned. David Reuitmann 1. If your going to give Mark the ride then why not give David the 12 races mark won't race? He's the heart and soul of your team. Gide rid of Travis Pastrana and give him a full time nationwide deal. Or atleast give him the 12 Mark isn't going to race in cup. Or give it to one of the young guys on this list. Instead you give it to Brian Vickers? Let me say this again, you gave it to BRIAN F'N VICKERS! 2. How can this guy not atleast get a nationwide or truck full time ride in good equipment? I mean really? He has to drive in the #92 in trucks? How can he not get a full time ride with a title contender? Reed Sorenson Was third in points and had a win in 2010 will cup domination was happening. In 2010 take away all the cup guys in nationwide running full time. And let's say Reed runs full time instead of splitting a ride with BRIAN F'N VICKERS! Guess who wins the nationwide title? Reed Sorenson (going way back in time) Mike Stefanik In 1997 and 1998 Mike ran full time in two series. These series had 22,22,21 and 19 races in them. The races were all across the US sometimes both leagues raced on the same day. 1997: Modified Series: 22 Races 10 Wins Champion Busch North Series: 21 Races 2 Wins Champion (missed a race because he had to run modifies, couldn't race both races) 1998: Modified Series: 22 Races 13 Wins Champion Busch North Series: 18 Races 4 Wins Champion (On NASCAR Now they just updated BMS and some drivers did a tires test their.(missed a race because of the insane schedule) This guy get's one full time truck deal in garbage? (13th in standings rookie year) Other guys who ran full time in the same car? 1997: Bryan Reffner 19th in Standings 2000: Rick Carellia 15th in Standings (who finished top 11 in truck standings every year he didn't race for this team) Plus if you don't count years after he was 50 and beyond (when drivers start lose there skills a little/slow down) In the modifies he has 13 full time seasons 7 championships. I believe he has 88 modified wins. Jacques Villenueve This guys wins an F1 championship and he can't find a full-time nationwide ride? Josh Wise Showed major potential in 2011. Never had a full-time nascar ride? Does the list look long or is it just me? Sorry I seemed so upset it's just look at all this talent. I want to see these guys given a shot? Is it that much to ask for a fulltime nationwide or truck deal for these guys? 308. 12345Dude posted: 06.15.2012 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reed Sorenson Was third in points and had a win in 2010 will cup domination was happening. In 2010 take away all the cup guys in nationwide running full time. And let's say Reed runs full time instead of splitting a ride with BRIAN F'N VICKERS! Guess who wins the nationwide title? Reed Sorenson Was third in points before being canned from Turner. 309. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.15.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 204.708 Holy Shit Too bad the track only has one groove. Is it Sears Point yet? Wow Brad is slow. Throw in the obligitory pit road penalty he will get Sunday, he might finish 5 laps down. 310. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.15.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only 3 laps in... 311. 18fan posted: 06.15.2012 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The easiest way to curb potential sandbagging in first practice is to not have Saturday qualifying for Sunday races. Make the practice that sets the qualifying order and qualifying itself on the same day. 312. cjs3872 posted: 06.15.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a feeling this could be like the Charlotte races in 2005, because they're actually going so fast that the tires can't take it. There were problems with blistered tires during the ARCA race, which just ended, and there are apparently problems with tires blistering in the Cup practice sessions, as well. And ARCA runs Hoosier tires and of course, Godyear is on the NASCAR machines, but the same problem seems to exists in all garage areas. It looks like this may be a race of survival more than a race of speed. Although NASCAR is saying they have no intention of using restrictor plates, they may want to reconsider after Greg Biffle's 204+ MPH lap and the tire problems that seem to be going on across all garage areas. Restrictor plates are used at Daytona and Talladega for spectator safety. I think they should be used in the Cup race for driver safety, because they're simply going too fast on a track too low banked for the tires to last. What we may see is a race like the 2008 Brickyard 400 if NASCAR doesn't slow the cars down, because the tires simply can't take the speed. 313. DaleJrFan posted: 06.15.2012 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know what I said about Hendrick not wanting Jr to win is way out there but Dale Jr isn't the problem. He has the desire to win. His teammates have won numerous times since he last did 4 years ago. People are going to continue to say I'm wrong but until Jr wins again I will still think to an extent Hendrick doesn't want him to. 314. Anonymous posted: 06.15.2012 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Tires is going to a problem like you said, if they don't use plates like you said. There is one thing that you didn't mention though. The temperature for Sunday for Michigan Internal Speedway is going to be 5 to 7 degrees cooler than it is today. That means the speed of the cars could increase in a race day. 315. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.15.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The lesson from this weekend is an age old lesson: QUIT REAVING RACETRACKS! The real problem with the speeds is the fact they aren't gonna be able to race each other. But again, everybody is SO afraid of the pothole. Guess what? Damn near 2 ton cars generating damn near 900 horsepower through narrow tires, and oh by the way there are at least 36 of them out there at all times, it is gonna tear pavement up. It happnes. Does anybody really think less of Daytona or Martinsville because of the pothole issues they had on their old pavement in '04 and '10 respectively? (Gordon fans are exempt from this poll, he had that Martinsville race won). It happens. Hell, I was at that Martinsville race, it was nice to have a break to go under the stands and get out of the sun that was kicking my ass that day as I was still recovering from the flu earlier in the week. 316. cjs3872 posted: 06.15.2012 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#314), if the temperatures are going to be cooler for Sunday's race, as you say they are, that's only going to make the situation worse, because it will increase the speeds even more for a longer duration in the race. However, there have been some changes made. First, Goodyear has pulled their left side tires and the teams are going to run a harder compound Sunday. Secondly, to allow teams time on the newer tires, NASCAR is going to have a 75-minute practice session AFTER the Nationwide Series race, something they should do all the time. Not only will that allow the teams time on the replacement tires, but it will eliminate whatever advantage the drivers who run the Nationwide Series race tomorrow. The chances for guys like Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, and the others who traditionally never run the Nationwide races to win Sunday just went up in a BIG way. And DSFF, tracks are going to have to be repaved sooner or later. In fact, I expect Atlanta and Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, CA to be repaved in the next 5-7 years to avoid potential problems with the track surface. Remember that at both Phoenix and Michigan in the last couple of years, drivers were reporting that the track was tearing up in places, and that both Daytona repaves were as a result of the track tearing up in the Daytona 500. In fact, that had a very adverse affect on the 1978 Daytona 500, because of all the marquee drivers that had problems as a result, much moreso than the 2010 Daytona 500. And turns one and two at Darlington had been coming apart for several years before that track was repaved after the 2007 races there. That part of the track began coming apart as far back as 2002. Repaves are not necessarily the best thing for racing, but depending on where in the country you are, tracks have to be repaved every so often to avoid it coming apart. NASCAR has finally gotten ahead of the game in that regard. Another lesson on why tracks have to be repaved was learned at the recent IndyCar race at Belle Isle near Detroit. You can't have cars crashing and races under extremely long delays and possibly terminated because of the surface of the track. The repaving of these tracks might be bad news for the quality of racing on a short-term basis, but they make sure of quality racing over the long haul, especially if done right. 317. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.15.2012 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Atlanta to be repaved in 5-7 years? This is as bad as when I found out the truth about Santa Clause. But not as bad as when I found out the Ultimate Warrior is a complete loon. 318. cjs3872 posted: 06.16.2012 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, there's nothing official about that, but rather a prediction of mine. Remember that in five years, Atlanta's pavement will be 20 years old, and in that part of the country, pavement that old will almost certainly start to tear up. And on a track where the racing groove is as wide as the pavement itself, if there's even a hint of the track starting to tear up, a repave will have to be done. After all, you can't have cars hitting holes in the track surface at 190 MPH+. You saw what happened to Jimmie Johnson and John Andretti in the 2010 Daytona 500 when that happened. Johnson's right front corner was damaged and his tire cut, and at the same time, Andretti crashed from a cut right front tire from that hole in the track in turn two. Even Bristol, a concrete track, was showing signs of wear inb 2007 and there were fears that if that track was not repaved, that it would start to tear up. Another track tht may have to be looked at in the future, assuming NASCAR continues to run there, is Dover, as that surface has remained unchanged since the change-over to concrete in 1995. I also tihnk Auto Club Speeday is due for a repave, not because of the risk of the track coming up as much as the extreme bumpiness, especially on the back straightaway, and with IndyCar racing returning later this year with their 225+ MPH speeds, that track will have to be repaved so that suspension pieces don't break on the cars. That's why Indy had to be repaved every 8-12 years, so that the lightweight suspensions IndyCars run don't get smashed like toys on a bumpy track surface, so if IndyCar's return to Auto Club Speedway is a long-term deal, look for that track to be repaved in the nex tyear or two. And look for Kentucky to also get repaved in the next three to five years, again due to the extreme bumpiness that can make racing there unsafe. (The bumps actually led to a hood coming up and blinding a driver late in the Truck Series race there last year.) 319. Mr X posted: 06.16.2012 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS and DSFF I absolutely agree with both of your last posts, CJS I agree that a racetrack does have to be resurfaced occasionally, however I like DSFF definitely think that a racetrack is at it's best when it's worn out. I'm a Jeff Gordon fan and I loved that race at Martinsville in 2004, I could care less that he lost that race due to a pothole, it was an amazing race and an amazing drive by Jeff Gordon to get back to 6th after his troubles, that pothole was for the greater good, as Rusty Wallace got his final win after a nearly 3 year drought. The 2010 Daytona 500 was the same story, it was easily the best 500 since the tragic 2001 race, and the July 2010 race was incredible aswell, with lots of complete white knuckle racing. The 2010 surface at Daytona was excellent, with as much grip as a skating rink, you really saw the talented drivers rise to the top, in July the drivers could only run wide open for the first few laps on fresh tires, on old tires the corner speeds were only about 185, as a result I think that race could've been run without plates. I remember hearing many drivers praise the track because they actually had to drive, Jeff Burton for one. The 2011 repave at Daytona just took away all the charactor Daytona had, and turned it into a lottery that can be won by the lesser drivers, because they caught the lucky break. Yes the 2010 Daytona 500 spent 2.5 hours under the red flag, so what, the July race weekend went off without a hitch. However I'm going to add an eliment to this argument, the type of pavement. I agree and have accepted that Atlanta and Fontana will probably need to be repaved within the time frame CJS mentioned. However the officials at those two tracks must hopefully realize that their exceptionally abraisive pavement is better then what has been layed down at Pocono, Michigan, Charlotte, and Darlington. Those tracks have an incredibly durable pavement that even years later will still be smooth as glass, and putting up track records and generally not wearing out. Hopefully when Atlanta does need to be repaved they lay down a fresh layer of whats already there, instead of some new age crap that never wears out or produces good racing. Rockingham was repave in recent years, and look at that surface now. I'll end by saying that a racetrack shouldn't be repaved until its absolutely, positively, 100%, undoubtably necessary. 320. Mr X posted: 06.16.2012 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is it Sears Point yet? 321. 10andJoe posted: 06.16.2012 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >NASCAR really needs to do something to curb this practice of sandbagging in practice for races that have a Saturday morning or early afternoon qualifying session. I know everybody cheers "yay practice sets qualifying order!" But I hate it. And not because of sandbagging, but because it removes the random chance. Go back to the random draw. Please. 322. JG24FanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Drivers with seasons comprised of wins at a Crown Jewel,Short-Track and a Road-Race for true fans of all around drivers 1971 Bobby Allison 1974 Cale Yarborough 1975 Richard Petty 1978 Cale Yarborough 1979 Darrell Waltrip 1986 Tim Richmond(proof of his greatness) 1995 Dale Earnhardt(just made the cut before the Jeff Gordon Road-Race shutout) 1997 Jeff Gordon 1998 Jeff Gordon(Triple Crown,Road-Race sweep+Spring Bristol win) 1999 Jeff Gordon 2000 Jeff Gordon(4 straight years doubles Cale's previous record of 2 total) somebody's gotta be impressed by this. 323. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jesus Christ, I mean cjs, please check your facts first. Auto Club just got done in 2008. Also, if these drivers are as talented as they claim to be, then they should be able to judge when the tires are worn and, if necessary, pit every 15-20 laps for tires. You speak of bump problems.. IndyCar ran Kentucky for years with no issues. There is no need for restrictor plates. The reason why the 2000 New Hampshire race was so bad was that the plates made it impossible for the cars to accelerate off the corner. We are looking slow speeds, plus NASCAR having to design and build the plates if they do that. Besides, friction is friction and if the surface is that abrasive, 10-20 mph won't make that much of a difference. 324. JG24FanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 8:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot Martin Drivers with seasons comprised of wins at a Crown Jewel,Short-Track and a Road-Race for true fans of all around drivers 1971 Bobby Allison 1974 Cale Yarborough 1975 Richard Petty 1978 Cale Yarborough 1979 Darrell Waltrip 1986 Tim Richmond(proof of his greatness) 1993 Mark Martin 1995 Dale Earnhardt(just made the cut before the Jeff Gordon Road-Race shutout) 1997 Jeff Gordon 1998 Jeff Gordon(Triple Crown,Road-Race sweep+Spring Bristol win) 1999 Jeff Gordon 2000 Jeff Gordon(4 straight years doubles Cale's previous record of 2 total) somebody's gotta be impressed by this. 325. cjs3872 posted: 06.16.2012 - 9:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, as far as I know, Auto Club Speedway has never been repaved since it first opened in 1997. And you mentioned 2008 there. That was the year of the weepers, which caused two accidents early in the spring race there, and then caued a postponement to the following day. d you mention how bad the 2000 September race at New Hampshire was with restrictor plates, and I agree that race was bad. But the reason they did so was because two drivers were killed in practice runs due to stuck throttles, and something had to be done, and slowing the cars down was one thing. That was done in the name of driver safety. Can you imagine what would happen if someone suffered a stuck throttle or lost their brakes going 220 MPH this week? We are going to se blown tires this week at that kind of speed, and hopefully, no debris goes into the stands from blown tires. And the problem with the tires is not that the track is abrasive. In fact, the opposite is true. They're getting too much grip, which is causing the tire blistering problem. Actually, if the cars slid a little bit, that would help the tire situation, because it's not a tire wear issue, but rather a heat issue. But back to the speeds. 205 MPH laps with stock cars on a relatively low banked track are extremely accessive, and that's why NASCAR should try to slow them down. Perhaps they were caught off guard by how fast the cars would be going. Odds are that you might see restrictor plates or tapered spacers when the series returns there this August to slow the speeds down to about 185-190. And 10andJoe, I agree that they should go back to the qualifying draw to eliminate the sandbagging. However, how would you do that to make sure that all the teams that had to qualify on time got a fair chance? I think they should go back to what they were doing before last year, and that is have a qualifying draw, and then separate the field into the exempt cars, which would go first, and then those that had to qualify on time and bunch them together. Drivers should not fail to qualify just because of where they wound up in the draw, and that was happening a few years ago, which resulted in splitting the two groups, to make it fair for all those that had to qualify on time. I also think they should junk the top-35 rule, or severly reduce it to 25 exempt cars, which would leave nearly half the field open to those that would have to qualify. If that happened, maybe you'd see some new teams. After all, we already know who the top 35 are going to be at year's end, given the current separation between 35th and 36th, and usually those that have to qualify on time are start-and-parks, anyway, though that's not the case this week, as there are two potential pole contenders on that list. 326. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) California didn't panic after the embarrassment of the 2008 weepers. I applaud them for that as their pavement has really reached a level that produces good racing and one of the worst tracks to one of the better tracks. If I'm not mistaken (cjs correct me if I'm wrong here) they were caused by record or near record rainfall in the Southern Cal area leading up to that race. They recognized that and didn't panic. 327. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.16.2012 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Indy 2008 and this *IF* it happens will be different. Indy never rubbered in because of the track surface being diamond grinded for Indy cars (which need the grip to fly about 225mph). MIS is rubbering in but even with it rubbering in the cars are going so fast that the tires can't handle it. Vastly different if you ask me. I also find it kind of funny that people are flipping out over the circumstances. Tire management will be key. Isn't what YOU people wanted? Guys that have to manage tires on a tire eating racetrack? Kinda funny. CJS is right, AMS, ACS will be repaved in the next 5 to 7 years. IT WILL HAPPEN. Dover even might be re-paved dispite it being concrete. They might re-pave the Road Courses in our live time. Homestead: Made it a great track from an average track. PIR: Made it more cool dispite it already being cool. I've watched some Daytona onboards and i can see the cars hitting more bumps. So Daytona is getting aged. Talladega looks aged (don't know about the bumps tho). I will agree Kansas could have waited another 2-3 years. But you never know how the racing will turn out. It is a toss up. 328. cjs3872 posted: 06.16.2012 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, there was a lot of rain that weekend in Southern California to cause those weeper problems, and you're right, they knew what caused the problem so they didn't panic. I know because I lived in the San Diego area at that time. Another track that used to have those problems was Indy. That track for years had weeper problems, though they haven't had those problems in about 15-20 years. And 1995 Subaru WRX STi, you're right on anout the tires issues at Indy a few years ago and what may happen this weekend. Frankly, if the 2008 Brickyard tire fiasco hadn't have happened, they may be experiencing something along those lines this weekend. At least Goodyear and NASCAR have been proactive instead of reactive in terms of the tire situation. And remember when they had the big problems at Charlotte a few years ago regarding tires that speed had a lot to do with that, because the tires couldn't handle the speed then. I think we're seeing why Goodyear is running harder tires at the fast, recently repaved tracks this week. You also say tire management will be key. I disagree. If tire wear was a big problem, then I would say that tire management would be an issue, but the problem is tire blistering, and whether or not a particular driver has problems will have more to do with luck than anything else. I think that despite NASCAR's and Goodyear's attempts to brting a more durable tire to Michigan this week, I think we'll be seeing competition cautions every 20 laps in the name of safety. After all, with speeds at 210+ down the straights, if someone has a tire problem at the wrong place, it could be disastrous, and if there a tire problem with one of the front runners, that could cause a huge accident. And also, there's more than a tinge of irony in the pole siter for the race at Michigan. After all, with the return of the 200 MPH lap, does anyone else find it ironic that the #9 car wins the pole? After all, that was Bill Elliott's number when he set all those speed records in the mid 1980s. The 200 MPH lap returns and the #9 wins the pole. Sounds a bit like 1985, doesn't it? 329. Kidracer posted: 11.25.2014 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well...Allmendinger ended up getting canned. Not for a reason many expected. 330. Rich posted: 12.06.2020 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Matt Yocum, Chris Neville, Ralph Sheheen and Marty Snider were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: