|| *Comments on the 2012 Quicken Loans 400:* View the most recent comment <#315> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Rusty posted: 06.16.2012 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) 203 MPH for Ambrose, damn. 2. cjs3872 posted: 06.16.2012 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I said it before, but isn't more than a bit ironic that the 200 MPH lap returns and the #9 car wins the pole. After all, hat was Bill Elliott's number when he set all those speed records in the 1980s, and now at Michigan, which by the way was Bill Elliott's best track, the 200 MPH qualifying lap returns for the first time in 25 years, and the #9 car wins the pole again. And again, the sandbaggers in the practice that set the qualifying lineup win out again. Only one of those that went out late even qualified in the top eight, and that was Trevor Bayne in the Wood Brothers car. Everyne else that went out late struggled, while Kevin Harvick and Jimmie Johnson, who were slow in the first practice, were fast, with Harvick qualifying on the front row, but not without controversy. Why NASCAR allows drivers to back up and rerun a lap when they get out on the track is beyond me. Harvick should have had to take the green flag and be penalized for not getting off turn four properly. Harvick, in my mind, cheated his way to the front row. I wouldn't be surprised to see this rule changed in th future, because what Harvick did, while within the rules, was totally uncalled for. And by the way, could Jeff Gordon's slow qualifying runs this year (and he was terible in qualifying again today) be a result of an unwillingness to step on it during quyalifying. Dale, Jr. had a slow qualifying run, but that was a result of his fast sped in the first practice yesterday, which got him out in the worst track conditions. Another example of why NASCAR needs to change how it does these Saturday qualifying runs. Guys like Dale, Jr., Mark Martin, and others who qualified late got jobbed again by NASCAR. Greg Biffle and Trevor Bayne at least held their own. And I think Bayne could be a of several drivers auditioning for that #22 car next year this week. If he can finish in the top ten this week, and A.J. Allmendinger continue to struggle, Penske will likely begin to take a harder look at Bayne to replace Allmendinger. And Bayne might be auditioning for other rides this week if his strong runs continue. And the same goes for Regan Smith, who's better than his equipment and team are. After all, you don't win the Southern 500 at Darlington by being a fluke. Smith has been among the leaders in quite a number of big races in the last couple of years. There may be significant changes in the second-tier rides next year, and Bayne and Smith may be major players. 3. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad's 25th place start is 10 positions better than I thought he would qualify. Paul Wolfe is truly the best crew chief out there. Now if Brad can refrain from screwing him on pit road it will be fun to see what they can make out of a bad start to the weekend. 4. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh. Yes ESPN, the 7 car spun cause the 30 car bobbled slightly 5 car lenghts ahead. And they have the last SEVENTEEN races on the Cup tour. It's called pushing hard which occasionally leads to mistakes. Howw many times has Kurt Busch just lost it this weekend? Hell, I'm just glad to see her pushing it instead of just riding. I think that is a good sign for her. 5. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johanna Long running and maintaining 11th place in MLM's car behind 10 cars with some sort of Cup affiliation. Has ESPN even showed her car? Of course not. We get to watch Kurt Busch running in 20th. 6. Bronco posted: 06.16.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very surprising that Ambrose's first pole doesn't come at a road course, but then again neither did JPM's first pole. This is the fastest pole speed since the second Talladega race in 1987, and it shatters Geoff Bodine's 197mph pole at Atlanta in November 1997, which was previously the fastest pole at a non-superspeedway track. 7. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How much speed will these left side tires slow the cars down? 8. Eric posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, What are you talking about? I am not able to get the Nationwide race. The Nationwide Race isn't on ABC for me. It has the Indycar race instead. I checked my ESPN channels and the Nationwide race isn't on there either. 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) ZOMG!!! ESPN just declared Johanna "worthy of note", gave a pit report about her, then they mentioned her Snowball Derby win which I assumed Brian France contractually prohibited all involved with NASCAR from ever mentioning (with punishment for those in violation being they were forced to be Kurt Busch's publicist for a month). Our girl is growing up! 10. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marcos you bloody ripper!!!! 11. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! Alan: Is Elliott gonna race Logano differently after the Darlington incident? Rusty: I would. You are damn right he would. Rusty never put up with shit from anyone. 12. murb posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica's been in pretty much every caution except for the Kenny Wallace blow up. Good job. Rustyisms for this race: Calling Johanna Long "Johnny Long". Calling Ryan Truex "Ran Truek". Calling Pensacola, Florida "Pencuela, Florida". 13. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ZOMG!!! ESPN just declared an incident involving the #7 car "her fault". Wow. These last 30 laps the ESPN broadcast crew has actually started doing real racing commentary. Rusty finally sounds like Rusty. Somebody get some Ativan ready because Brian France is gonna have a seizure when he finds out TV is treating a NASCAR race like an actual sporting event. 14. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now a John Force reference from the booth, one of the coolest racers ever? I'm in the damn Twighlight Zone. 15. murb posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) THE 39 IS A GHOST CAR!!!!! 16. joey2448 posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The 39 car in the Nationwide race just took off down the banking without anyone in it. That's just about THE FUNNIEST thing I've ever seen in a race LOL! It's like a circus out there! Talk about ghost riding the whip, haha! 17. Spen posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Obviously, the #39 knew that it will never, ever get to do a burnout, so it tried to do it on its own. Come on Buescher! 18. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And the booth has a sense of humor? Actually making us laugh? Is Rusty trying to get his HOF election revoked by the France family? 19. Spen posted: 06.16.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric: You live in Wisconsin, right? I guess your local ABC affiliate decided to show the Indycar race at Milwaukee instead. The rest of us are gettting it on ABC. 20. murb posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whatever. At least we have Road America/Sonoma next week. 21. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Right now I'd like to see Logano's face get cracked open by a true NNS driver. 22. Anonymous posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'd like to see his face cracked open by anyone 23. LordLowe posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) DAMMIT BUESCHER YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST KNOCKED HIM OUT OF THE WAY YOU IMBECILE 24. LordLowe posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ZOMG Jimmie Johnson Now has the personality of the Ultimate Warrior. 25. murb posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Right now I'd like to see Logano's face get cracked open by a true NNS driver." haha... He pisses me off to no end too. But you know, his personality totally fits in with JGR. Other than Bobby Labonte and Dale Jarrett, every driver they've had has been an egotistical douche at some point in their career. (Except maybe JJ Yeley, but he doesn't count because he did absolutely nothing there.) But think about it: Stewart when he was there, Hamlin, and Kyle Busch have all had moments of being total dicks and having massive egos. So I guess Logano is just the next in line. Fortunately though for the NNS series, next week should be fantastic. Road America has been great the couple of times they've been there. And it's almost a guarantee that the winner there is either going to be a one off road ringer, or a series regular. So it should be a lot of fun. As for this Cup race tomorrow, I'm interested to see how the racing turns out. And to me, there's really no clear cut favorite. 26. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson does have an incredible personality....... when the cameras are off. When he is on TV? Zzzzzzzzz. 27. Daniel posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #30 David Stremme & #74 Stacy Compton Out using fastest 43: #10 Tony Raines & #99 Carl Edwards 28. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The NASCAR official who ordered the cars to be slowed down due to NASCAR's dangerous-to-life psychotic paranoia with 200mph also needs to be split open, I think. They are slower than the ARCA cars now. 29. LordLowe posted: 06.16.2012 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Then Maybe he needs to show more of his off camera personality instead of his boring bland robotic on camera personality. BTW I personally wouldn't mind seeing the warrior behind the wheel of one of those race cars. 30. Spen posted: 06.16.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: Totally unrelated to what's going on right now, but a couple of weeks ago, you mentioned that any point system that awarded Bob Welborn the 1956 Convertible title shouldn't be considered legit. Last night, I converted that season to the Latford system, and even under the last modification (awarding an extra ten points for wins) Welborn still beat Turner by 85 points. The main difference was caused by Turner skipping the midseason 'midwest tour'. But Welborn's invention of Kenseth-style "soul crushing consistency" certainly aided his efforts. 31. NazRacePhan posted: 06.16.2012 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marcos Ambrose becomes the 11th different driver to win a pole in ALL 3 top series.... He joins the likes of: Terry Labonte Jimmy Spencer Greg Biffle Jamie McMurray Ken Schrader Kyle Busch Carl Edwards Mark Martin Ryan Newman Elliott Sadler 32. Eric posted: 06.16.2012 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, I do live in Wisconsin. I figured that is what happened when the Indy Race was on. 33. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, first off, just to be clear about what my point is, for those that try to discount JJ's championships because of the cha$e system, you can't start saying people's championships aren't legit because of the points system because that opens up a slippery slope where any championship can be discounted. Biggest offender: 1974. It is a good thing Richard Petty, who probably would have won it wnyways, took the Winston Cup home that year. But anyways, that is the point I was trying to make. But as for the 1956 Convertible calculations, all I can say is Wow! That is incredible (copyright: Kyle Petty). I think that proves that every point system is open for debate in truth. Thanks for the info. 34. Eric posted: 06.16.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I made the post 33 over an hour before what the time said on that post. 35. jabber1990 posted: 06.16.2012 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) would this be a good idea and/or location for a track? a .75 mile bristol-shaped short track with 45 degrees of concrete banking in Wyoming? 36. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If somebody proposed a track in Wyoming to Brian France, he would vomit out every single one of his inernal organs. What I'm trying to say is I love the idea. 37. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.16.2012 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *internal 38. jabber1990 posted: 06.17.2012 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) or not even wyoming, could be also be in Montana, Nebraska, Utah, Idaho 39. Wrecking in Turn 3 posted: 06.17.2012 - 1:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! I just read all the comments from last week's race and boy were the Logano haters pissed. I hadn't realized there were this many - Or that the hate was THIS strong. Did he run over all of your dogs or something? Anyway, I'm probably going to start rooting for him to win any time he has a chance now just for the hilarity that's bound to ensue on this page. C'mon Joey, send the rage meter of some of these posters through the roof. 40. @38 Jabber posted: 06.17.2012 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about somewhere in minnesota??? 41. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 2:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm in Idaho, so I'd love to see a track in Wyoming. And I'd also love to see Brian France vomit out his internal organs. So that would be a win-win for me. 42. Spen posted: 06.17.2012 - 2:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been considering moving to Wyoming, so obviously I love the idea. 43. 10andJoe posted: 06.17.2012 - 3:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Utah actually has a pretty nice road course. 44. Anonymous posted: 06.17.2012 - 3:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think there should be a road course in Maryland in the shape of Maryland (somewhere between 2 and 3 miles long). That might be a fun track. 45. Anonymous posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bayne may have a good chance at the 22 next season. Remember Penske is going to ford, and Bayne is essentially a ford driver? Well, the rumors of an alliance of sorts with Roush and Penske? who knows whats going on there, But with Roush and wood brothers having Bayne as their driver, maybe he could end up exactly in that 22 car. Hopefully it is a quality ride!!!!!! and Logano is such a disrespectful brat 46. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2012 - 9:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And let's not forget that allegedly Bayne was Penske's first choice to replace Kurt Busch, but when Bayne told Roush about the offer, Roush told him NOT to take it, but if Allmendinger continues to struggle, I wouldn't be surprised to see Penske knocking on Bayne's door again. After all, Bayne has more top tens this year in less than half as meny starts than does Allmendinger. And if Penske can't find sponsorship, he'll use his car rental companies to help pay the bills, something he did as far back as 1983 when Hertz car rental sponsored Al Unser when Penske hired him in 1983, and all Unser gave Penske was two championships in three years. Remember that Penske would never have hired Allmendinger if not for a recomendation by Richard Petty, which might also have been a sign that Petty didn't want Allmendinger around any more, because of how hard Allmendinger drove Petty's cars. Remember that Petty has traditionally liked drivers that took it easy on his equipment. 47. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2012 - 9:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And also, it looks there is going to be rain at Michigan today at some point, which is the last thing NASCAR and the teams need, considering what they've gone through the last two weeks, and where next weekend's race is going to be (Sonoma, CA), the last thing that is needed is rain, but it looks like there's going to be some today. 48. jabber1990 posted: 06.17.2012 - 12:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) yes I understand that the engines have alot of miles on them and stuff, but due to the fact that its only a 400 mile race could that help them out? 49. Spen posted: 06.17.2012 - 12:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: "It is a good thing Richard Petty, who probably would have won it wnyways, took the Winston Cup home that year." I ran the Latford numbers for that season a couple of years ago. Cale actually came out ahead by something like 9 points. But when it's that close, it's impossible to say how it would have turned out. But this much we can say for sure: the silliness of the '74 point system took what should have been a really fun points battle, and turned it into a total anti-climax. 50. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 06.17.2012 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 28. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.16.12 - 6:40 pm The NASCAR official who ordered the cars to be slowed down due to NASCAR's dangerous-to-life psychotic paranoia with 200mph also needs to be split open, I think. They are slower than the ARCA cars now. ^Dang Straight. I know I've been saying that most of this season that this year of racing has been purely incredible and stunning, but in all honesty, this was not just a step backwards, but a huge run backwards. 200mph+, at a track not named Daytona or Talladega? I was going to set aside all of my plans to watch that thing, rain or shine! But alas, what the hell do they do? They change the darn tire compounds. Folks, I understand that NASCAR is paranoid about another Bobby Allison/Neil Bonnet/Carl Edwards incident. But do these guys remeber last years Bud Shootout? I know everyone that was a fan of this sport prior to 2003 hated it, but does anyone remember the speeds? At least 202 mph? But did anyone flip, go flying, or the like? No. In that race, when Kyle and Martin crashed Mark should of been flipped over from the angle and sudden turn-around that Mark was hit by Kyle. Likewise, when Montoya hit Logano in the big one in that race, Logano normally would of at least gotten two wheels off the ground considering he had been rapidly spun almost right at the transition from the banking to the apron. So what happens? Logano just gets spun around, with more damage. So I'm thinking that NASCAR needs to stop living in a Fear-Mongering late 1980-1990 era. I know that was possibly Nascar's best era, but seriously, seriously, we need to see some fast speeds. So who do I blame for this, reverting what could of been 'exciting Michigan' back to the usual 'Snoozer Michigan'? Not Brian France, Not Mike Helton. I'll stick 30 percent of the blame onto Goodyear. I place another 30 percent of the blame on insurance. The last forty percent I say will go to the president and vice-president of competition. Folks, we had a guy run his car into a dryer truck this year, and he's fine. We had a legend with the roof of the car being grind-ed against a wall, but the roof stayed strong, and the driver was fine after the care stopped barrel-rolling. We had cars go spinning at 'Dega/'Daytona, and none of them lifted off. I know that we had the Eric McLure incident at Talladega, but that aside, when was the last moderate/major injury in NASCAR's top division? 2003 I think? I'm not sure. So in all reality, you should of just let them run this race full speed. Every NASCAR fan would of been glued to their TV sets. 51. Sean posted: 06.17.2012 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ricky Rudd in 2007 was I believe the last Cup driver to miss races due to injury (I'm not counting the strange Bayne and Vickers incidents because those weren't on-track injuries). I agree that they should have let them race at those speeds. Race speeds are never as fast as qualifying speeds anyhow, so it's possible nobody would have been breaking 200 during the race itself even if the tires weren't adjusted... I hope Marcos Ambrose milks this for what it's worth. He could get some great PR from being the "fastest driver in a generation"... 52. Rusty posted: 06.17.2012 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just now turned on TNT, looks like no race today... 53. Smiff_99 posted: 06.17.2012 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just checked the hourly forecast for Brooklyn, MI......supposedly the rain will be cleared out in about an hour....*fingers crossed* 54. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Places Brian France is interested in building a track: -New York City That is the entire list. 55. Frank posted: 06.17.2012 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NazRacePhan @ 31 Cool stats, but you forgot Mike Skinner, Todd Bodine and obviously Kevin Harvick. So, Marcos is 14th. 56. Smiff_99 posted: 06.17.2012 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) hmmm, green racetrack? This could a be a little messy early-on, depending on how hard guys are willing to push it. 57. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Latest Kurt Busch victim: Marty Smith. I don't get it. Now I really am convinced he needs help. This is from Jayski... Kurt Busch has heated exchange with reporter: #51-Kurt Busch's troubles with the media continued on Saturday at Michigan International Speedway. Busch had a brief, heated exchange with ESPN reporter Marty Smith after Saturday's Nationwide Series race at MIS, a week after serving a one-week suspension for making threatening comments to Sporting News reporter Bob Pockrass after the Dover Nationwide Series race. Busch, on orders from Sprint Cup team owner James Finch, avoided talking to reporters upon arriving at MIS on Thursday. But when he finished third in the race won by Joey Logano on Saturday, he had to make a mandatory appearance in the media center. As he waited to be interviewed, an MRN Radio pit reporter said on the live broadcast that Busch left the top-five area without interviewing. Busch was told of the comment and replied, "That's what everybody says, don't they." Busch then left the room to cool off. Several reporters, including Smith, with a camera crew, followed. Busch then told Smith to come over with his camera. When Smith got there, Busch said he wasn't doing interviews there, adding, "You ever hear of sarcasm?" That led to a brief exchange during which Busch said, "You don't know how long I've been working on this."(see full post at ESPN.com)(6-17-2012) 58. JRacingFast posted: 06.17.2012 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Random question.....Why are they bothering to do driver intros why dont they just call the drivers to there cars and get on with the racing?? 59. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2012 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Because JRacingFast, it's part of the procedure, especially for the fans who have stuck it out through the rain delay. As for the Kurt Busch situation, I still think there is something going on that he may not even know, much less the rest of us, and there are a few possibilities, including what Ryan Newman earlier this year called a "chemical imbalance", which I still think may be code for some kind of drug usage, or maybe he could have a bi-polar disorder. Another possibility may be that Kurt has a vendetta against the NASCAR press, but still another could be what happened to LeeRoy Yarbrough after his Indy crash in 1971, which is far more serious than any of the before mentioned things, and that he could have some kind of mental health problem. I hope not, but that's a possibility also. That kind of thing eventually landed Yarbrough, NASCAR's first Triple Crown winner in 1969, into a mental health institution, where he spent his final years, and not even all the help that Junior Johnson tried to give him via money to pay bills was of any help. Let's hope Kurt's not headed down that road. 60. LordLowe posted: 06.17.2012 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Lets Remove Brian France from Power 61. Spen posted: 06.17.2012 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's give a big hand to the Army Chorus for demonstrating what our anthem is *supposed* to sound like! Take note, American Idol wannabes. 62. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anybody just lose it more often than Kurt? 63. Spen posted: 06.17.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica? 64. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They might run over 1/3 of this race under yellow. 65. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad has been by far the biggest beneficiary of the left side tire change. They were absolute junk on the other ones. Funny thing is these are really old tires last used well before Paul Wolfe became a Cup crew chief. I'm telling ya, he is the best crew chief out there. 66. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2012 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem that knocked Trevor Bayne out of the race was a very unusual thing to happen, especially for the Wood Brothers, who even now is one of the most prepared teams in the sport, but it happens to even the most prepared teams. Also the two cars so far that have had engine problems are Fords, Bayne and Josh Wise. 67. DaleJrFan posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar should not count caution laps. If fans pay to see 400 miles of racing they should see 400 miles of racing not 300 racing and 100 under caution. To make sure races don't go to long Nascar could shorten the races to 300 or maybe 400 miles and that way the extra laps wouldn't add up to much. 68. DaleJrFan posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar should not count caution laps. If fans pay to see 400 miles of racing they should see 400 miles of racing not 300 racing and 100 under caution. To make sure races don't go to long Nascar could shorten the races to 300 or maybe 400 miles and that way the extra laps wouldn't add up to much. 69. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That 88 car likes new pavement. They will probably repave all the tracks now. 70. Mr X posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alan Gustavson is finally starting to get this two tire nonsense. 71. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been waiting to see if he can get it turned around, but you can now put me in the "Dinger is gone" camp. Bayne? Shell would literally go from the most vile driver to a choirboy in two years. 72. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch blows up AGAIN? 73. 18fan posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What is with the #18 team and their engines? 74. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll add to it 18fan. What's up with the #18 team and their engines under caution? This is the third consecutive race they've had engine failure, and they've all been under CAUTION. I don't know if they're running experimental parts, but whatever they're doing, they need to change it. After all, whatever's going on with the #18 car doesn't seem to be happening with the other two cars. And yes, DSFF, Allmendinger drove into the wall entering turn three. What's up with him and making errors. Again, that was the result of a driver error, and a bad one at that. And how about Austin Dillon in his second Cup race, running in the top 15 at the halfway point. 75. JRacingFast posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As stupid as this sounds part of me thinks the 18 team could be attempting to bank of kyle winning a race r two to get a wild card in the chase and they could be just expermenting with stuff....then again odds are i am wrong. 76. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junior snaps his winless streak today, I think. If he does, be sure to be wary of an influx of annoying Junior fans... 77. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt is today's version of Danica. 78. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) C'Mon Finch, shitcan Kurt already. He can't handle running in...... well any equipment. Quit doing this to your team. 79. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr is looking really good so far. I thought Ambrose had a winning car earlier, but he seems to have faded. Definitely a frustrating day for the 18. I can't imagine what it's like to have three straight weeks of blowing up. And how the hell did AJ hit the wall going INTO the corner? I totally think he should just ask Penske for an IndyCar ride. It's just not working out. Ryan Briscoe has been less than stellar this year (other than winning the Indy 500 pole), so maybe he could take over that ride. Trevor would be a good fit in the 22, but unfortunately, I don't see it happening. Roush is completely holding him hostage, and it is a damn travesty. But then again, Penske is going to Ford next year, so who knows. Crazier things have happened. I've stated this before, but I think Logano would be a good fit in the 22 if he gets canned from JGR. Smaller team, and he can learn from a guy like Brad who actually had to overcome adversity to get where he is at, unlike Joey. But unfortunately, he's probably going to stay in the 20. 80. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Dale wins, there will be at least one person saying the race was fixed. Mark my words. 81. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, Kasey gets taken out again... 82. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HARD crash for Joey Logano. 83. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Revenge of The Underfunded Cars: Target Logano. After he destroyed an underfunded car for no good reason at Dover, an underfunded car causes him to lose it here. Karma is a bitch. 84. New 14&88 Fan posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What happened to the 38 to make him slow up like that, hard hits for Joey Logano and Kasey Kahne. A shame since they were both having good runs. "Kurt is today's version of Danica." He's been perfecting his Danica impression since before she got in NASCAR, only deference being she knows how to handle the media(perhaps too well. 85. MarkMartinFan posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Jr wins and people say the race is fixed, they should just shut up and realize we won't have to hear "Will Jr ever win again?" anymore. 86. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MarkMartinFan, amen. 87. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't say the race would be fixed (I know someone is going to probably call "Bullshit!" on this, though), although you're right, someone would say it was fixed for sure. I just know if he wins we'll be getting some of Junior's loonier fans posting crap like "JUNIOR HATERS CAN SUCK MY (censored)". Needless to say, I won't be at looking at NASCAR.com's comments for sure because I know without a doubt there'll be comments like that there. 88. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin's on fire! Awful day for Joe Gibbs. 89. 12345Dude posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Dale wins, there will be at least one person saying the race was fixed. Mark my words." If Dale doesn't win people will say the race is fixed. "The Revenge of The Underfunded Cars: Target Logano. After he destroyed an underfunded car for no good reason at Dover, an underfunded car causes him to lose it here. Karma is a bitch." Don't believe in karma what so ever. Coincidences happen all the time. "I'll add to it 18fan. What's up with the #18 team and their engines under caution? This is the third consecutive race they've had engine failure, and they've all been under CAUTION. I don't know if they're running experimental parts, but whatever they're doing, they need to change it. After all, whatever's going on with the #18 car doesn't seem to be happening with the other two cars." The 18 team was too upset for them to be testing something. This new pavement is worst then I thought it would be. It's literally impossible to pass anyone. 90. New 14&88 Fan posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All the Gibbs cars are out of it now, Ouch. At least Denny's alright. 91. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, great idea. The only reason I haven't come to this page before is that I never realized where it was. 92. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not fixed, pretty obvious the 88 team has the setup for new pavement. They really have it. Also watch for them at the second Pocono race and Kansas. 93. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr.'s doing great, of course it's not fixed. 94. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR wouldn't be fixing races against Dale Jr. If NASCAR were fixing races, he sure as hell wouldn't be riding an almost 150-race winless streak. He'd have as many championships as his father and probably even more wins already if they were fixing races. Junior is quite a special driver...if he wins, people are going to say it's fixed, and if he loses a race it looks like he's going to win, people will ALSO say it was fixed. I've never seen any other driver have this ability. 95. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YES EXACTLY!!! Approximately 39 laps until detonation. 96. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 13 laps left until the Internet implodes. 97. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think I will be vacating this website for a while until everything calms down. 98. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) 10 laps until this board breaks the site record for most comments. 99. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the plus side, it looks like Jeff Gordon may get his 400th career top 10 today... 100. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) 4 laps left until all sports-related websites CRASH. 101. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Let the nightmare for this page begin! 102. Anonymous posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JUNEBUG!!!!!!! 103. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) It was fixed. Just kidding. 104. New 14&88 Fan posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Finally!!! 105. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This is probably going to be remembered as one of NASCAR's greatest races 5-10 years down the road... 106. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's 400th career top 10. 107. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stand by for network implosion. 108. LordLowe posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damm these people are driving like idiots 109. NadeauFan91 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haven't seen him win live since the 2005 Chicago race back when I was still DaleJrFan(insert # here), so this has been a REALLY LONG TIME COMING!!!! What a great way to celebrate my 21st birthday! Great job Junior! Here's to more! 110. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course, there will be a lot of idiots who said this great race was fixed. 111. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This site hasn't exploded...YET. Just wait an hour or two... 112. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good for Jr, those guys deserved it this weekend. Class of the field. Like it or not, this team is going to be a contender this year. They've been so rock solid with the consistency. And like DSFF mentioned, they do have a great setup for these repaved places, judging by Pocono last week and Michigan next week. 113. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm gong to fire up the crow BBQ for those who: A: Thinked that race was rigged. B: Though the race would be a vast disaster (which i was one of them) C: Tought the race was boring and sucked (i'm sure there will be those) D: Just for people in general. Congrats to Jr. One of the best Michigan races in a while. Repave gets an A+ from me. 114. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, nothing happened to Gordon today? Has hell frozen over? 115. Willy on Wheels posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JUNIOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Streak is over, on to Sears Point for WIN 2 this year!!!!! 116. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OHMAHGOD I LUV JR! NOW WE CAN MAKE HIM PRESIDENT! ^ Ha! Not really. But man, Jr? JR? He's the last guy I would of picked to win! My god, the internet is going to have breakdowns at various locations...Gosh. Jr!? ANd he didn't just fuel mileage chance luck his way in, he dominated in. My...God. 117. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will say...I wouldn't expect Jr. to be a contender next weekend at Sears Point being that he has never been particularly good at road courses...of course I could be wrong and Jr. will end up getting 2 in a row. Also, did Mark Martin blow up at the end of the race? He was running 7th with a few laps to go and wound up 29th. 118. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, the race was better then what Michiagn usually is. If '1995 Subaru WRX STi' gives it a grad,e I'll give it a grade myself. A minus. There was still a problem with a car or two getting seperated way from the feild, but however, that might change next time we come here because everyone else will have the tire figured out better. Soooo, A lame Coke 600, A somewhat good race at Dover, A Good race at Pocono, a race at Michigan that is between 'Good' and 'Very good'. At this rate of continual uptick, next week's Infenion event should be exciting for the third year in a row. Hey, all you Junior fans, Have some steak/ribs/mashmallows/whatever the heck. I'm celebrating with you. I'm only a slight Jr. Fan, but heck, I'm glad he finally got that thing, especially how disappointing the 2011 Coke 600 turned out for him. He had it coming, I knew that after he won the Allstar Open and the fourth All-Star Segment, But I thought it would come much later in the year. The best thing about it all is that he didn't luck his way in with fuel mileage, making it all that more meaningful. And I think this race was NOT fixed. 119. Spen posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark must have run out of gas without anyone noticing. Congrats to Junior. Now we get to see how many years it will take for him to get to win #20. 120. Bronco posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Today there was no running out of fuel, running out of time, getting passed by a faster car, or not having enough help in the drafter - Dale Jr finally won straight up and crushed the field in the process. I was super nervous seeing all those restarts since he traditionally isn't very good at those, but that car was totally hooked up today. First win for Steve Letarte since April 2009 at Texas with Jeff Gordon. Both his HMS wins have now come at Michigan on Fathers Day under different circumstances. This is his first race win under the green flag since Richmond in May 2006. Dale Jr passes Kevin Harvick and ties Carl Edwards for wins among active drivers. I believe he has now passed Geoff Bodine and Kyle Petty for all time top 5s and top 10s. This may be the first time this year that I correctly picked him to win on the fantasy race page on this site. We need to start a petition to make him run that sweet looking Batman paint scheme every weekend - black with green numbers looks so much better than the current silver and red Diet Mountain Dew Colors and the prior AMP Energy scheme. 121. JG24FanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon becomes only the fifth man to reach 400 Top 10's 1. Richard Petty 712 2. Bobby Allison 446 3. Mark Martin 443 4. Dale Earnhardt 428 5. Jeff Gordon 400 and Jeff also ties Bobby Allison for 2nd all-time in races led 1. Richard Petty 599 2. Jeff Gordon 415 2. Bobby Allison 415 4. Dale Earnhardt 406 5. Darrell Waltrip 403 Congratulations to all the June Bug fans, you guy's enjoy it. 122. Eric posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The idiots are already already starting to coming by claiming this race was fixed. See Dale Earnhardt, Jr.'s comment page on this site on that Kyle101439 made. This race wasn't fixed or fixed. What is really happening here is a driver and team that has been very consistent all season long so far with a driver that hasn't had start like this in a long time. This is a team that has the capabilities to win more races this season if they don't fade rest of the season. 123. 10andJoe posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) -Joe Nemechek's 600th Cup Series start. 124. MStall41 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would have to agree with 118 on the quality of racing today. Not quite as good as the NW race, but the racing was surprsingly good. The reason? Drafting was a big part of the race, which was a bit of a surprise. If you remember during the first half of the race the top 4 cars were all racing together and it was evident that the draft was in play. Once the teams get the tires and speeds figured out the racing at Michigan ought to get even better. 125. Michael posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice win jr 126. NazRacePhan posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Frank @ 51..... Thank you for the correction 127. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't realistically see Jr. winning the championship. I can't see him carrying the momentum the whole season. Watch me proven wrong like I usually am and watch a lot of people disagree with this comment...Am I the only one who has a feeling race attendances are going to start going up because Jr. won a race? Maybe next week is where Gordon will really turn his season around. I can always remain hopeful, can't I? 128. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm going to put my money on Ambrose next week, can't wait, love road course racing and the Nationwide/Cup races should be great. 129. Nick posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr. to Dale Sr. "Happy Fathers Day Dad." Nice job Jr.! Now we go to Sonoma where I am putting my $ on Marcos or Robby! 130. David posted: 06.17.2012 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The intelligence level on this message board far surpasses that of NASCAR.COM's. Well done, people. 131. JG24FanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon also tied three different people for 4th all-time in Top 10's at Michigan. 1. Mark Martin 31(almost had 32 today) 2. Bill Elliott 29 3. Cale Yarborough 26 4. Jeff Gordon 25 4. Richard Petty 25 4. Dale Earnhardt 25 4. Darrell Waltrip 25 132. 18fan posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The evolution of the #88 team this year has been fun to watch. They've gone from consistent top 10 to consistent top 5 and contender for the lead to race winners. Now having them challenge for wins week in and week out is the next step. 133. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The intelligence level on this message board far surpasses that of NASCAR.COM's. Well done, people." It's because this site is for real race fans who aren't (usually) conspiracy theorists. Plus, everyone here has (usually) been following racing for at least 10 years or more. Next week is going to be so much fun. Obviously, Marcos Ambrose is gonna be one of, if not the man to beat. But there are several other guys that are capable of winning up at Sonoma. Of course you always have to look at Gordon and Stewart at a road course. But you've also got guys like Kahne, Keselowski, Harvick, Kyle Busch, Gilliland, and McMurray who are kind of the forgotten road course aces. Nowadays, instead of having just a select few to choose from, it seems like we have many more contenders at Sonoma and Watkins Glen. Boris Said is gonna be in the 32 car for Frank Stoddard, I believe. And I'm not positive, but I thought I heard a while back that Vickers was gonna be in the 55 for the road courses. (I may be wrong on that.) So if those two are in fact in the field, we should have a decent amount of road rage out there, haha... Plus, Robby Gordon is coming back. So it will be interesting to see how he screws himself out of a Sonoma win this time. 134. hyperacti posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Something happened to Mark Martin very late in the race but TNT had nothing to say on the matter. He went from 7th to 29th and was 100% ignored. I swear, back in like 03-07 the broadcast would have been all over that, regardless of who the driver was. I don't know what it is, but nowadays the broadcast teams seem to feel like there is a lot of news that is dispensable. Even a 3-second shot of Mark Martin making the left-hand turn into the garage would have sufficed. 135. Peter posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Na na na na na na na na na na na na....Batman 136. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin seems to have a habit of quietly blowing up near the end of races while running in the top 10 lately. He had similar circumstances happen to him at Kansas and Charlotte. (I know they DID talk about it during those races, but it was mostly just briefly mentioned there). 137. 18fan posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bob Dillner said on SPEED Center that JGR is going to go for a little less horsepower and a little more reliability after the rash of engine issues they've had recently with Kyle. 138. Rob posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) ha ha ha stupid race. with stupid drivers and stupid cars. f**k dale jr. hes a has been and f**k all of his hick fans too. 139. joey2448 posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, of all the races to miss, it's the one where Junebug finally snaps his winless streak...I was running a mountain race today. But good for Little E. I hadn't heard anything about the race today as I was driving home, until my friend sent me a text that read, "JUNEBUG!!!" haha! I thought, "no it can't be, can it?" Good for him, and good for Jeff Gordon getting a top-10. Maybe next week will be Gordo's turn to win, eh? 140. BON GORDON posted: 06.17.2012 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Dale Jr. A much needed win for his team and his fans. I knew it was only a matter of time. If Jeff Gordon doesnt make the chase ill be part of Jr. Nation and pull for Jr. To get his first title. As for Jeff Gordon he becomes the second youngest driver to score his 400th Top Ten but really had a 2nd-4th place car. Kinda dissapointed but whatever. 141. Rusty posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't like Jr., but I'm glad to see The Dark Knight Rises car in victory lane. I can't wait for that movie. 142. blaneyfan36 posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My bad, Reutimann has DNQ'd one race in 2012, at Charlotte. It was his first missed race since 2007. A somewhat disappointing race for Austin Dillon, barely if at all cracked the top 20 in a well funded RCR 4th car. Kyle Busch continues his string of engine attrition, which sucks because to me he's matured quite a bit since he sat out one race last year. Can Joey Logano regain his momentum at Sonoma, because he will need it as he needs great finishes or another win or two to grab a wildcard spot. Also the same for Kasey Kahne, who had a solid string of runs the past few races. Landon Cassill gets his feet walking again after two consecutive crashes, which are costly for BK Racing, which was likely the reason why BK did not field a third car for Reutimann. Picks for Sonoma: Solid Lock: Juan Pablo Montoya Sleeper: Brian Vickers Winner: Jeff Gordon 143. blaneyfan36 posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was only a matter of time before Dale would win but he drove a very smart early part of the race. Also thanks in part to the strategy from Steve LeTard for once. Don't forget, he and Jimmie were 36th and 37th after, I believe, the competition yellow on lap 52. A very solid run for Juan Pablo Montoya, who could be a winner in a week with slight momentum, and we've all seen that Juan's team executes better with confidence, especially heading to a road course where he's won in the past. Another reason to show why Jimmie Johnson is the favorite to win the title, showing more consistency in the past month or two than guys like Kenseth, Biffle, and Junior. Although he has had terrible issues such as ill-handling cars and pit penalties and still come back to get top 5's. To me, Matt Kenseth needs to show more dominance and winning ability in order to win the title, but then again look at Tony Stewart last year. Inconsistency for Ryan Newman and Brad Keselowski continue, with 15th and 13th place finishes. Newman has 0 top 10's since his win at Martinsville. This was Joe Nemechek's 600th career start. David Reutimann's 1st missed race since 2008. 144. Texas Terry posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, I didn't even realize Martin blew up in this race, and that makes 3 for him as well this season. In that case, I have to ask what the hell is going on with TRD's engine department? 145. Texas Terry posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Back on the subject of Kyle Busch's engine failures, I don't remember anyone having this kind of bad luck with engines since Bobby Labonte in 2005, his last year with Gibbs. It seemed like he was blowing engines every week. Looking back now, he only had 5 engine related DNFs that season, but he still had 4 in the first 13 races. That's just unacceptable for a top-level team. I thought the same thing then that I do now, what the hell is JGR giving the 18 team? I don't see how they can expect to compete for a championship when their equipment is this unreliable. 146. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The last time I remember somebody having engine problems 3 straight weeks was Ryan Newman back in 2002 when he blew up at Texas, Martinsville, and Talladega 3 straight weeks early in the year. 147. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson once blew 3 straight motors in 2004. (DSFF correct me if i'm wrong) 148. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson blew up three weeks in a row back in the summer of 2004. Well, I know he blew up 3 times any way, but I'm pretty sure they were three straight weeks. 149. murb posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) haha, Looks like you and I were thinking alike, Subaru... 150. ch posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dillon ran top 15-20 for the first 50 laps or so, and still improved from his last race. What do you expect for only his second start? Good job to Landon Cassill. And to #143, Reutimann DNQed in the 73 earlier in the year. I may not like him, but Jr ran a great race today... So congrats! 151. jr88fan posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By looking at 138, we have a 10-year-old Busch brother fan on the site. 152. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, JJ blew 3 in a row in '04, the first year of the cha$e after they got a 230+ points lead. That is why I say the playoffs actually robbed JJ in '04, not Jeff. 153. 10andJoe posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #16 sponsor: 3M / NASCAR Unites #19 sponsor: Humphrey Smith Racing (no need for LLC; should be same for Fontana and Fort Worth) #49 sponsor: America Israel Racing (blank hood and quarter panels) 154. JP88 posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow my heart was pounding in those last 20 laps but it finally happened!!! I don't really know what to say but I just knew it was gonna happen today. I picked him to win on a fantasy game and wrote next to it (poetic justice, 4 years ago.) I just can't believe nothing happened (caution) that made it nail-biting. Just so happy right now, hopefully this leads to bigger and better things (championship). 155. 10andJoe posted: 06.17.2012 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) -50th Cup start for Aric Almirola. 156. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, how did I forget about Jimmie blowing 3 engines in 3 consecutive weeks? We need more small teams willing to run the difference like BK Racing and Frank Stoddard's team. 157. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *DISTANCE, not difference... 158. DaleJrFan posted: 06.17.2012 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank God the streak is finally over. 159. 24fanforever posted: 06.17.2012 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Petty compares a graph to how hungry he is. I still wonder why I watch nascar on tnt. 160. Schroeder51 posted: 06.17.2012 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're telling me you would prefer watching FOX with the ever annoying Waltrip brothers? I'll take Kyle Petty comparing a graph to how hungry he is over "BOOGIDY BOOGIDY BOOGIDY LESS GO RACIN BOYS!" 161. 88Jrfan posted: 06.17.2012 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats Dale Jr. on win #19! Hendrick has really hit their stride as a team the past month or so. 162. 10andJoe posted: 06.17.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey, at least Kyle's actually funny! 163. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 06.17.2012 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Folks, Hell is Freezing over. I'm going to go there and make me-self an ice-castle. First Dale Jr wins, then Danica Patricks GoDaddy ads are going to get less revealing? My god. I'm looking forward to Sonoma/Infenion and Road America. I don't really like the racing at Road America, and that has got to be the ONLY road course I pay attention to for the wrecks and stupid finishes. However, I hope that Montoya wins at Infenion, after Brad K screwed him out of a top 5 run last year. 164. Cooper posted: 06.17.2012 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junebug! Yes. Congrats. Haters are gonna Hate. 165. cjs3872 posted: 06.17.2012 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least strategy of anything flukey didn't play a part in the outcome, as the best car clearly won. Actually, Dale, Jr.'s victory margin was the most one-sided at Michigan in many years. And with Dale, Jr.'s win, that means all three Hendrick cars with speed on the big tracks have won this year. But I wonder how Dale, Jr.'s season will progress. I think it will start going downhill, because now that he's finally won, I think his performance will begin to spiral downward slowly. A lot of times, this happens to drivers that break long losing streaks. And Joey Logano's good fortune didn't last, but it was hardly his fault. The wreck he was in, along with Kasey Kahne, who's early-season bad luck seems to have returned, began when Matt Kenseth appeared to get into David Gilliland off turn two on a restart and Logano and Kahne were caught in the aftermath. The dumbest move of the race was undoubtedly A.J. Allmendinger driving straight into the wall entering turn three, bringing out a debris caution and ruining his day. Jeff Gordon hit a milestone with his 400th top ten, but this looks like his third consecutive winless season in an even-numbered year, as his cars are consistent and handle well, but just have no speed, especially at the high-speed tracks. They're good enough to run fourth through about seventh or eighth, but just aren't fast enough to run any higher in the order. Perhaps it's just a case of a driver being unwilling to stand on it on a high-speed track, especially one that's just been repaved. If form holds true, he won't be very good at Sonoma, where he hasn't seen the front of the field during the race in years, Kentucky is an unknown, but he'll probably be slow there, and he's rarely been a factor at the restrictor plate tracks since NASCAR ushered in a gear ratio rule for those tracks in 2007. His next chance for a good run may be at Loudon. As for next week's race at Sonoma, I see it as a three-car race for the win between the #9 of Marcos Ambrose, the #22 of A.J. Allmendinger (and he better contend at Sonoma), and the #42 of Juan Montoya. Everyone else will probably be racing for fourth, unless something happens to one or more of those drivers. 166. 10andJoe posted: 06.17.2012 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >the #22 of A.J. Allmendinger (and he better contend at Sonoma) If he doesn't, he might not last out the year. Penske is not a patient man. 167. Jon posted: 06.17.2012 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) woohoo!!!! 168. cjs3872 posted: 06.18.2012 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, Penske is certainly not patient with mistake-prone drivers. Again, lack of performance is something most car owners can tolerate, but never when combined with one mistake after another, and that is what's happening with Allmendinger. I knew that Allmendinger probably wouldn't perform that well. After all, with few exceptions, he has proven that he just isn't that good. But to compound that lack of performance with one mistake after another is what has to be making Penske fume, though he'd never show it. Jut look at today. He makes an inexplicable error by simply driving into the wall on the straightaway, and at what has traditionally been a strong track for Penske. That is why I think when Richard Petty recommended that Penske hire Allmendinger that it might be a statement that Petty just didn't want Allmendinger's all-or-nothing style any more, especially since that doesn't fit wth what Petty traditionally wants in his drivers anyway. Just look at Aric Almirola, who I didn't think would amount to much, either. Almirola, who is much less experienced and driving for a much lower funded team, is doing better when it comes to finishing races, and is ahead of Allmendinger in points, is striking, as is the fact that Mark Martin, even with his engine failure today, is ahead of Allmendinger in points despite running three fewer races. If Allmendinger doesn't shape up by Watkins Glen, he could be out of that car by October. If that happens, who his replacement would be is unknown, though I suspect Sam Hornish, Jr. would be the logical first choice, though that would be a bad one, in my estimation. Allmendinger's time in NASCAR may be running out if he isn't careful. 169. Anonymous posted: 06.18.2012 - 1:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan smith blew a tire with a few to go. He had a pretty good run going. Congrats to junior, a season of consistency and now a much needed win. Could a title materialize? 170. 10andJoe posted: 06.18.2012 - 1:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #33 owner: Richard Childress (Dillon's races are pure RCR efforts, just with what are now Falk's owner points) 171. TheTruth� posted: 06.18.2012 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "However, I hope that Montoya wins at Infenion, after Brad K screwed him out of a top 5 run last year." Well, maybe Brad K wouldnt have screwed Montoya if Montoya hadn't screwed half the field as he snowplowed his way through just about everybody. cjs, while you mention AJ Allmendinger is certainly being a disappointment in the 22 right now, it's worth noting that if youre gonna compare how Aric's doing in the 43 right now, you might as well compare it to how AJ did in the 43 last year. He had 10 top 10s in 36 races, but only 1 top 5... with an average finish of 16.1 and finished 15th in points. That is well ahead of how he's running in the 22, and is better than Aric is currently doing with the 43. Not to mention, Mike Ford moving over to the 43 is the greatest crew chief they've ever seen. AJ looked way better in the 43 last year than he's looked in the 22. Maybe part of it is a first-year Cup crew chief in Todd Gordon, maybe Penske in general is struggling with some things, maybe AJ is putting too much pressure on himself. But regardless, not only is Aric slightly higher in points, but AJ was doing waaaay better last year than he is this year... with, like you said, the lower funded team. 172. murb posted: 06.18.2012 - 2:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know, I sort of just realized something about Penske. Sure, AJ has not been impressive in that car thus far. But if you think about it, Brad really hasn't been that great either in the 2 car. Yeah, he has two wins, but other than that, he really hasn't done anything noteworthy. They were completely off at Michigan today, just as they were at Dover and a couple of other recent races. And remembering back to Vegas, both cars had some type of a fuel pickup problem or something. So maybe Penske has just fallen off a little bit from where they were at the end of last year. TheTruth brings up a good point about Todd Gordon. Even when he was on the 22 car in NNS last year, his decision making skills seem terrible. More than once this year, they've taken some bizarre strategy moves. But still, I think AJ deserves a little more time. He should be very good on the road course this weekend judging by his previous Champ Car experience. And he's run well at Watkins Glen the past couple years too. So if he isn't very good this weekend, then there might have to be something done with that team. Because I expected him to run way better than he has so far. 173. BON GORDON posted: 06.18.2012 - 2:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ummm isnt Gordon 20th in points? Burton and Gordon are tied in points but Gordon breaks the tie with 4 Top tens to Burtons three. 174. BON GORDON posted: 06.18.2012 - 2:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And cjs, Gordon has good enough cars to be a top five points team even a points leader. If Jeff didnt have his bad luck he'd have two wins at Dover and Martinsville and many Top fives and top tens. The only race where he really wasnt good was Las Vegas. Carl Edwards ran 4-8 a lot last year and nearly won the title. God please get off Gordon's case. Me and any other Gordon fan are very happy with runs from 4th-8th. And he can win anywhere, he's Jeff Gordon. 175. LordLowe posted: 06.18.2012 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) By this time next Sunday in Sonoma Dale Jr will have come Crashing back down to earth and will be running in his usual position of mediocrity 176. Eric posted: 06.18.2012 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree that next week is a key race for A.J. Allmendinger. Penske does bring good cars for road courses and A.J. was great in CART on road courses. 177. Eric posted: 06.18.2012 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, There is one thing that didn't mention about Dale Jr. that you should have. Dale has tracks 3 tracks from next week to August 12th that Dale doesn't have a great history with them being Sonoma, Indy, and Watkins Glen. Dale never has a top 10 finish at Sonoma. Dale only had 2 top 10 finishes ever at Indy in 12 cup starts. Dale only has 2 top 5's and 3 top 10's in 12 cup starts at Watkins Glen. There is no reading on Dale for Kentucky since cup drivers only have 1 cup start there. I do wonder how Dale's season will progress like you do though. I really don't like to make any predictions of his season before the chase due to the tracks that he is known to be weak at is coming up. If Dale does well for the final 4 races before the chase, that is a sign were he and the 88 team is at. The only thing I know with Dale Jr. is if he is in a close chase battle going into homestead, he is screwed. I am saying that because Dale never got a top 10 finish at homestead in 12 cup starts there. 178. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.18.2012 - 8:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yep, thats why NASCAR waited four years including through attendance and ratings drops from 2008-2010 to fix a race for Dale Jr. to win. Oh wait, Ryan Hunter Raey won the first race for Andretti Autosport this year at an Andretti promoted race. Must be fixed Crap driving helped to take out both Toyotas from Le Mans, must have been some kind of a conspiracy to get Audi another win. 7 winners in 7 races in F1? Must be fixed. Obviously I watch Indycar, F1 and Le Mans but I'm just showing the stupidity of some of the "fans" out there. Good god some people are stupid, if NASCAR really had wanted to fix races for Dale Jr they would have done it around 2009 when their ratings were in even worse decline and probably would have done it at Daytona or Talladega, not some random race in Michigan on TNT. 179. cjs3872 posted: 06.18.2012 - 9:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing regarding Allmendinger is not how poorly he is running, but rather the mistakes he's making. It's one thing not to run well, because neither Penske car is running well, but it's another to make mistakes, especially careless mistakes, and that's what Allmendinger's problem is. Penske's got the same problem that Jack Roush is now encountering in the Nationwide Series, and that is that his team has no one else to fall back on if they do fall behind. The difference between Allmendinger this year and last is the he didn't make nearly as many mistakes last year, hence he finished a little better than he ran and finished in a higher points position. The constant mistakes is why Allmendinger may be on the hot seat, not lack of performance. And as for Dale. Jr., the reason I think that win may have sealed his spot in the Chase is the fact that he's now got a win to fall back on, should his luck go the same way as some of his teammates' fortunes have. And BON GORDON, I agree that Jeff Gordon has had top five cars at most tracks this year, but has had god-awful luck. But his cars just haven't been fast enough at the high-speed tracks to contend for the win. Either that, or he's unwilling to push it, especially at the repaved tracks like Michigan, due to the crashes he's had in recent years, including the wild crash he had in the Shootout earlier this year, which was self-inflicted. But the shorter the track, the more likely he is to run at the front. All his best races this year have come at tracks 1 mile or shorter in length, as evidenced by Dover and Martinsville. His best run at a high-speed track was at Texas, which has an aged racing surface. His problem at those tracks has not usually been handling, but rather speed. 180. DieselDan posted: 06.18.2012 - 9:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The National Association of Southern Caucasians and Rednecks fixed another race. 181. 24fanforever posted: 06.18.2012 - 12:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @comment 160 don't get me started with the waltrip brothers. 182. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.18.2012 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yep, thats why NASCAR waited four years including through attendance and ratings drops from 2008-2010 to fix a race for Dale Jr. to win." Do not tell the tin foil hat crowd that. They'd rather have a scapegoat to blame (i could list things but i'm not) then anything else. "Oh wait, Ryan Hunter Raey won the first race for Andretti Autosport this year at an Andretti promoted race. Must be fixed" Oh it was. Just like how they screwed Scott Dixon over when EVERYONE says the Ganassi team is there "golden boys" over there at IICS and NEVER get called for anythhing. (Boy is it just me or have the IICS officals been horrible the past 2-3 years. Not even NASCAR has looked this bad recently) "Crap driving helped to take out both Toyotas from Le Mans, must have been some kind of a conspiracy to get Audi another win." Must be, since they win it like every year. *sarcasim* "Obviously I watch Indycar, F1 and Le Mans but I'm just showing the stupidity of some of the "fans" out there. Good god some people are stupid, if NASCAR really had wanted to fix races for Dale Jr they would have done it around 2009 when their ratings were in even worse decline and probably would have done it at Daytona or Talladega, not some random race in Michigan on TNT." yeah Brian, why did you wait for 4 YEARS to GIVE Jr. a win. *more sarcasim* Seriously NASCAR can not win with anyone with anything that they do. I can seriously say that the: NBA: rigged (anyone with half a brain can see this *see the draft lottery* NFL: with the 'replacement refs' coming, how bad will this be? MLB: Do i have get into how bad the umps have been this year? F1: Apart from the tire manu. (Pirelli) that make good tires, everything else is basically to make F1 'artically' more exciting with the KERS and DRS. No offense TeamPlayersBlue, that is how i view F1. 183. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 06.18.2012 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 171. TheTruth�?� posted: 06.18.12 - 1:50 am "However, I hope that Montoya wins at Infenion, after Brad K screwed him out of a top 5 run last year." Well, maybe Brad K wouldn't have screwed Montoya if Montoya hadn't screwed half the field as he snowplowed his way through just about everybody. -- I understand what your saying, most of the people I have ever talked to about that also think that Montoya was being, and I quote 'A reckless, Wreckful ***' in that race. I think otherwise. Starting from 2009 and on, Road Racing has taken a Short-track mentality. Infenion only has one real grove around the track, and you have to work your dairy-air off to get onto that lane. I think that Although Montoya totaled, inadvertently, maybe 10-15 cars, he knew what needed to be done to get ahead. I admit that he did cause the big-one that year in a way, but you could also look at it as the fact that it was a restart. How many big-wrecks have happened within the first two laps of a restart since we got the Double-Filed restart back? I'm not sure, I've not counted. Likewise, you could say that KC Khane spun off of Montoya's bumper in that race just as easily as you could say that he wrecked Khane. However, it could just be that I am heavily biased. I like Montoya, a lot, because he takes no *** from anyone AND he is still looking to try and win an oval race. Even if he never wins one, He'll always be one of my favorites. I don't know why, because when you think of it, I HATE Dale Sr, and yet Montoya drives a bit like Sr. on Steroids. - On other news to note, as cjs said in post 179, that could easily be it. Although Consciously JG is running hard as ever, subconsciously, he might be stepping back just a bit, afraid of costing his life or damaging his body and where that might leave his family? - Also, could Kurt be having issues with glands or something? Maybe he's producing to much testosterone or something? 184. ch posted: 06.18.2012 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 49 - Robinson Blakeney Racing. (america Israel racing is not the team name, just a sponsor which was not on the car) 33 owner should be Falk. Same situation as the 10 in that the cars have to be registered to him since he owns the points. 185. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.18.2012 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tragic breaking news: FOX is trying to extent their contract with NASCAR in light of interest from NBC. Will NASCAR continue the suicide of my least favorite announcer of all time, Larry McReynolds? 186. Eric posted: 06.18.2012 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Destroyahirismix666, It is possible that Kurt has thyroid problems. Kurt wouldn't be the first NASCAR driver to have thyroid problems since Bobby Labonte was diagnosed with a thyroid problem called graves disease in the mid 1990's and Ron Hornaday developed a thyroid problem around the 2004 to 2006 time frame. The thing is there is many different types of symptoms and different names of thyroid problems out there. I read on the internet on the past that there has been studies that shown a person that is bipolar also has thyroid disease. It is possible that Kurt has a thyroid problem based on that. I also know a good about symptoms for having a bad thyroid through the doctor that diagnosed me with a thyroid problem years ago. The doctor mentioned a lot of signs of a thyroid problem to me including a personality disorders, hair loss, lose ability to talk, gives out false medical readings on some stuff like cholesterol reading on tests, and a lot of other stuff that I didn't mention including not the ability to lose wright despite changing eating habits. My own symptoms of a thyroid problem does not include personality disorders, so I don't have what Kurt might be going through if he has a thyroid problems. The fact is there is a lot of different types of thyroid problems like I already mentioned. A lot of males in the past had thyroid problems without knowing it because that is the last thing a doctor looks at for a male patient of theirs. The other thing with thyroid exams is that I believe they didn't exist before some point in the 1970's or the 1980's. That means Kurt might have family history of thyroid problems without knowing. 187. Kyle101439 posted: 06.18.2012 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats NASCAR on another sucessful rigged race. 188. Anonymous posted: 06.18.2012 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #180, is that part of your new comedy routine? Odd note from the results - Tony Stewart actually collected more money than Jr, the winner. I don't think I've seen that before. 189. murb posted: 06.18.2012 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Tragic breaking news: FOX is trying to extent their contract with NASCAR in light of interest from NBC. Will NASCAR continue the suicide of my least favorite announcer of all time, Larry McReynolds?" hahaha I'm actually a fan of Larry, but I found this funny. I don't really mind if Fox comes back. But I would LOVE to have NBC come back. They are doing a great job with the Indy Cars on NBC Sports, so their Nascar coverage could be great. Hopefully NBC will swoop in and replace ESPN all together. And then Allen Bestwick and Petree and those guys could go over to NBC along with Kyle Petty and Wally and stuff. I don't know, I can dream, can't I? 190. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.18.2012 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) kyle, go read what I said on DE Jr's page, just for you, you venom-mouthed hall monitor. 191. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.18.2012 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else think EGR hasn't got long to live? 192. DieselDan posted: 06.18.2012 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #188, that's an old joke. 193. JRacingFast posted: 06.18.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fun Fact: This is the second week ina row that a team that was planning to race the whole race finshed last over a start and park 194. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.18.2012 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, I wouldn't say the 2 team has been "not really good" but they have had a ton of gremlins, some of which self inflicted, that have held them back. Obviously the fuel issues which I think they have fixed. Most disturbingly have been Brad's issues in the pits. He needs to fix that instantly. And yeah, they have had some races of just not being fast. The result is stunning inconsistency. That is a lot to fix in 2 months if they hope to contend for a championship. Throw in the inevitable growing pains of switching to Ford next year, and it looks like they will have to wait until 2014 at the earliest. But there should be a pretty good number of wins over that span to hold us over. 195. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.18.2012 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Tragic breaking news: FOX is trying to extent their contract with NASCAR in light of interest from NBC. Will NASCAR continue the suicide of my least favorite announcer of all time, Larry McReynolds?" I'm fine with FOX and TNT but ESPN needs to GTFO. They do NOTHING to help the sport at all. (yes i realize that NASCAR treated ESPN like crap for the 2001 TV deal but that still isn't an excuse for ESPN to do that same.) Yes NBC needs to come back. Next year the TV deals will re-done. NASCAR will HAVE to take a discount on the amount they will get (it is an obvious thing). I'll play Devils Advocate here: FOX: Daytona 500 to Daytona july race. TNT: After July race to start of chase NBC: All of the chase. 196. 10andJoe posted: 06.18.2012 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >33 owner should be Falk. Same situation as the 10 in that the cars have to be registered to him since he owns the points. Except /nothing/ about the team was Falk's except for the name on the entry blank. The team, cars, crew = all Childress. 197. 10andJoe posted: 06.18.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sears Point entry list is out. A remarkable scarcity of road course ringers. -Robby in the #7 -#10 and #30 are TBA -Boris in the #32 -Leicht back in the #33 -Vickers in the #55 -Scott Speed in the #95 The #23 and #74 are not entered. 198. Talon64 posted: 06.18.2012 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Earnhardt Jr. picks up his 19th career Sprint Cup Series win, snapping a 143 race win-less streak dating back exactly 4 years ago. He ties 5 other drivers (Denny Hamlin, Carl Edwards, Fonty Flock, Buddy Baker and Davey Allison) for 36th on the all time list for wins. It's Dale Jr.'s 2nd win in 159 races with Hendrick Motorsports. His 218 laps led this season are his most since 2008 (896, the previous season that he won a race); he needs just 18 more laps led to reach 7000 for his career. His 12 top 10's, which lead the series this year, equal his top 10's from all 36 races in 2011. It's his 2nd Michigan win. In fact, his last two wins have come at Michigan. His 95 laps led in the race are his most ever at Michigan (268 in 26 starts overall). It's his first top 10 in the last 4 Michigan races, but his 3rd top 3 finish in the last 9 races. Hendrick Motorsports ties Joe Gibbs Racing for the most wins in 2012 by a team so far with 4, all coming in the last 5 races among 3 different drivers. Tony Stewart's 6 top 3 finishes this season lead all drivers. But it's his first back-to-back top 5's of 2012, and 3rd top 3 in the last 5 races. Stewart's 11 top 5's at Michigan are his 2nd most at any track, 2nd only to Loudon where he has 14, and his 19 top 10's tie Pocono for his most. It's his 5th straight top 10 there, and 10th in the last 12 races (7.2 avg fin). Matt Kenseth and Greg Biffle each picked up their 8th top 5's of the season, tied with Jimmie Johnson for the most in the series. It's Kenseth's 6th straight top 10 finish, which includes three 3rd place finishes. It's his 12th top 5 at Michigan, his 2nd most at any track, and 4th straight top 10 there (5.0 avg fin). For Biffle, it's just his 3rd top 10 in the last 7 races (but they're all top 5's), and his 8 top 5's at Michigan are hist most at any track (11 top 10's tied with Bristol for most as well). Biffle has led 258 of 803 laps over the last 4 Michigan races (32.1%), but has just a pair of 4th's and a 10.75 avg fin to show for it. Jimmie Johnson has 4 top 5's, including 2 wins, over the last 5 races to outscore everyone by 14 points (208, vs. Kenseth in 2nd with 194). Interestingly, the top 11 in points scored over that stretch are the top 11 in points. Carl Edwards is 11th, but then Marcos Ambrose is 12th. It's just Johnson's 4th top 5 in 21 Michigan starts (9 top 10s, 14.7, but 542 laps led), including back-to-back top 5's in the last 2 races. Jeff Gordon FINALLY becomes the 5th driver to reach 400 career top 10's (28 behind Dale Earnhardt for 4th), but it's just his 4th top 10 in 15 races this season. But that includes 2 in the last 4 races to put Gordon back in the top 20 in points for the first time in the last 6 races. It's Gordon's 5th top 10 in the last 7 races at Michigan (9.1 avg fin), and 25th top 10 in 39 Michigan starts (11.3 avg fin). Clint Bowyer is currently on a season-best 3 race top 10 streak. His 5 top 10's and 7.9 avg fin over the last 7 races has moved him up from 12th to 9th in the standings. His 12.1 avg fin so far this season would be a career-high, but he's only led 6 laps (1,473 over his first 6 seasons). It's his 5th top 10 in 13 Michigan starts (17.5 avg fin), but all coming over the last 7 races including the last 3 in a row (10.9 avg fin). Juan Pablo Montoya picks up just his 2nd top 10 of the season and first in 11 races. It's his 3rd top 10 in 11 Michigan starts (21.8 avg fin). Marcos Ambrose became the 3rd fastest driver in qualifying in Cup history, behind only Bill Elliott and Cale Yarborough, by earning his first career Cup pole with a speed of 203.241 mph. Ambrose picked up his 3rd top 10 of the season, all coming in the last 5 races to jump him from 21st to 17th in the standings. Kevin Harvick picks up his 3rd top 10 in the last 4 races, after just 3 in the previous 9. It's his 8th top 10 in 23 Michigan starts (14.8 avg fin), and 2nd in the last 4 races. Landon Cassill finishes in the top 20 for the 3rd time this season, all coming in the last 7 races. Austin Dillon finishes 24th, 2 laps down, in his 2nd career Cup start but ran in the top 20 for pretty much all of the first half of the race. Pretty sure he lost a lap when the caution came out during green flag pit stops, did he not take the wave around or did he get stuck 2 laps down and only got 1 back with the wave around? Still, his RCR teammates Jeff Burton and Paul Menard finished 21st and 22nd, 1 lap down, right in front of him so it wasn't a banner day for RCR despite Harvick's top 10. 199. murb posted: 06.18.2012 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I guess that is true about Keselowski messing up in the pits. Good points, DSFF. But I've just noticed that Penske seems to be a little further off than where they were at the end of last year. Maybe they are missing Kurt... *sarcasm* As far as EGR "not having long to live", I'm not sure. Juan had probably his best run all year yesterday at Michigan. And Jamie has been just kind of okay this year. I know they are one of the rumored teams to go to Dodge, but I really doubt that will happen due to their engine alliance with RCR. The big thing they have is that Kyle Larson kid in their development stable. (Pretty funny that I call him a kid right? He's actually a couple years older than me, lol.) He has killed it in USAC the past year or so, getting the inevitable "next Jeff Gordon" tagline. But so far in stock cars, he's been really impressive too. He's running the East Series full time as a rookie this year, and he just got his first win at Gresham (which by the way, is an EXTREMELY underrated short track that should have a Truck and NNS race, but of course it doesn't.) Anyways, I think EGR maybe banking their whole future on him. I really don't see Jamie being there past 2013. As for Juan, I expect to see him there for a while, as he just resigned with them this last year. Plus, him and Chip have a great relationship. So basically I'm expecting them to eventually put Larson in the 1 car, and rebuild around him with Juan as his pissed off veteran teammate (You know, kind of like what happened with Rusty and Newman in the early 2000s at Penske.) But until then, they'll probably just continue on with being mediocre. 200. murb posted: 06.18.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah I noticed the lack of ringers too, 10andJoe. But I think that most of them are gonna be in Road America. Pretty sure Papis will drive the RCR 33 car. And I'm sure Fellows will be there in some type of a Chevy ride (JRM 5 car?). And if you can call him a ringer, McDowell will be back in one of the Gibbs cars. Maybe this time he won't choke away the win like last year... 201. Jim posted: 06.18.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All you little b*t*hs that thinks NASCAR is fixed don't watch it 202. Eric posted: 06.18.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Destroyahirismix666, There is another possibility with Kyle Busch. Kyle is going through a divorce. 203. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.18.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it is safe to say Robby will run the full race. That is if he makes the race. I wish Robby would just do the plate races (under rated at those places and since now we have "manufactered pack racing" that he can survive the big one if one happens but drive up through the field if one doesn't happen) and the roadies (his speciality), AMS (had good runs with Richard), PIR (OW experience) and a few others. 204. 10andJoe posted: 06.18.2012 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #202: You mean Kurt, right? 205. Eric posted: 06.18.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, I did mean Kurt. 206. Eric posted: 06.18.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My posts have shown up on this site show up from 2 to over 8 hours after I post them such as my 7:11 a.m post. I did mean Kurt instead of Kyle for post 202. 207. jr88fan posted: 06.18.2012 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yay Junebug!!! I sure hope that ESPN and TNT don't get a lot of races. As a matter of fact, this is one of my better ideas below. Fox: Daytona 500 to Infineon Tnt: to the 2nd richmond race EXCEPT: NBC: Daytona in July, The Brickyard, 2nd Richmond, and one other race NBC: also the Chase 208. Dave#38Fan posted: 06.18.2012 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Mayhew will attempt his sprint cup debut in the phil parsons racing #98. the teams regular driver, Michael McDowell, will be in road america in joe gibbs #18 Pizza Ranch toyta. mayhew is a full-time competator in the k&n west series, which is running at sonoma on saturday. last year, mayhew practiced and qualified mcdowell's car (then the #66) before stepping out for the race, but he said on his facebook page that he will be in the car for the race this year, but will probably still be a start and park. this will be mayhew's first start in one of nascar's top 3 series this year, last year he had two third place finishes and a pole in 2 starts in khi's #2 truck, and a top ten at iowa in khi's #33 nationwide car after running in the top 5 all night and being forced three on a late restart. 209. F.U posted: 06.18.2012 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I missed the first of this race did Trevor Bayne start and park?? I say this because his status was the same as Josh wise in a car that has ran like 100 laps all season 210. Eric posted: 06.18.2012 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F.U, Bayne did not Start and park. He had engines problems early in the race. Josh Wise actually had engine problems in this race also. I saw the race on television live. 211. 18fan posted: 06.18.2012 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, both Bayne and Wise had legit engine failures. Wise brought out the second caution when his engine went up in a large plume of smoke. 212. Eric posted: 06.18.2012 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, I actually responded to post 209 before you did, My postings have been posted by this site over 2 hours after I press the publish button. 213. cjs3872 posted: 06.18.2012 - 11:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F.U, you can't be serious? The Wood Brothers starting and parking at a track where they won 11 times and had a legitimate chance to run with the leaders had things gone right? What have you been smoking? One of the reason they reduced their schedule in 2009 was to run the full races when they did run, they don't believe in S&P'ing just to build up their starts in case of qualifying rainouts. And as 18fan said, Josh Wise, who usually does start-and-park, had a legitimate blown engine which caused the second caution period. And I'll be very interested in what drivers the teams that usually start-and-park use this weekend at Sonoma, especially since some of the drivers they'd like to use (like Ron Fellows and Max Papis) will instead drive in the Nationwide Series race at Road America the day before. 214. NickDeez posted: 06.18.2012 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I realize it's due to contingency awards, but I wonder when the last time was that the winning driver of a race did not earn the most money for that particular race? Dale, Jr. earned about 11k less than Tony for the win at Michigan. Obviously there are times when 2nd doesn't earn as much as 3rd or 4th, or something like that, but I just found this interesting. 215. 10andJoe posted: 06.19.2012 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #208: Even if it's a S&P, that's awesome for Mayhew. 216. TBRFRMFAN posted: 06.19.2012 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Simo in the #30 for Inception Motorsports. Stremme the owner decided to replace Stremme the driver this week :) 217. 10andJoe posted: 06.19.2012 - 2:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Score! 218. I Love Japan posted: 06.19.2012 - 4:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You didn't think I was gone forever did you? Ha I never left ;). I didn't watch the race . But I would like to say this. BRING BACK CBS that is all. Fire allmendinger please. Take out Burton too. He is done. 219. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.19.2012 - 8:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My solution to the TV situation: Build a time machine and go back to 1991. ESPN: Bob Jenkins, Ned Jarrett, and Benny Parsons. Turner Networks: Eli Gold or Ken Squire, Buddy Baker, Neil Bonnett (But not the "Legend they would often bring in like Petty, Cale, or Pearson, they were no good and added nothing, although it was kinda fun listening to Richard's contempt for Earnhardt) CBS: Ken Squire, Ned Jarrett Man, those were the days. 220. Anonymous posted: 06.19.2012 - 8:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24fanforever, where did you get that list of races led", or did you count? If you have a link, that would be great!!, hopefully this site can make this one day. Races led" rankings. 221. Wildthing posted: 06.19.2012 - 10:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been watching the cup since 2009 and i thought I would never see Jr win, congrats, but he needs to hire a speech therapist too many ums 222. T-27 posted: 06.19.2012 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm actually working on a list that keeps track of how many times a driver led 100+ laps up to 500+. I'll post some in the comments when it's ready. (it's all based on data from this site) @JG24fanforever: if you have a list like this, let me know through these comments, as you're the one who came up with this - don't want to steal your thunder :) 223. Wildthing posted: 06.19.2012 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's good for NASCAR when Jr wins 224. cjs3872 posted: 06.19.2012 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or DSFF, go back even farther to the glory days of ABC Sports' racing coverage and bring Jim McKay, Keith Jackson, or Bill Flemming, and Jackie Stewart back to cover the races today. 225. Anonymous posted: 06.19.2012 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nick: The November race at Phoenix last year 226. Anonymous posted: 06.19.2012 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In leading this race, Matt Kenseth moved past Dale Jarrett in alltime races led. Kenseth 209 Jarrett 208 227. murb posted: 06.19.2012 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I miss Eli Gold. I was only a small, small kid when TNN and CBS went away, but he and Buddy Baker were probably my favorite commentary team. Funny story about Eli: I was watching/listening to a stream of his MRN radio show a while ago (Fast Talk, I think it's called). At the end of it, Eli said his goodbyes to the listeners and what not, and the show went off the air. But the video stream on the website was still going, and you could hear Eli and the producers or whoever talking. Then, out of nowhere, Eli told this joke to these people, not knowing he was still being streamed. A little kid walks into his mother's room and says, "Mommy, I've got stomach issues. Can I have some Viagra?" And then the mother goes, "Why?". The kid then says, "Because that's what you give daddy when his shit needs to get hard!!!" So, just picture Eli Gold telling that joke in his trademark voice, and you'll love him even more. 228. Japan posted: 06.19.2012 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson is the best driver ever. 229. cjs3872 posted: 06.19.2012 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Japan, I don't even have him in my all-time top ten, partially because of the cloud that Chad Knaus has put his career under, but another reason is that he never had to face the likes of Dale Earnhardt, Darrell Waltrip, Rusty Wallace, or even Bill Elliott in their primes, or in Waltrip's case, when he was still competitive. But another reason is Johnson's relative lack of versatility, which is exemplified by his relative lack of success on the oddball tracks, except for Martinsville. In other words, while Johnson has five championships because of the Chase (without it he wouldn't have more than two), the Chase may also have diminshed his career, because those oddball tracks are tracks Johnson and his team don't really care about, because they're not in the Chase, with the exception of Martinsville. 230. Anonymous posted: 06.19.2012 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) yaaaayyy found a compiled list http://www.race-database.com/rankings/rankings.php?series_id=2&stat=10 231. murb posted: 06.19.2012 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, Jimmie has a lack of success on oddball tracks? Yeah, you made a good point about him never being able to go up against Earnhardt or DW in their primes, but I think Jimmie is incredibly versatile. He now co-holds the all time wins record at Dover, which may be the toughest track on the circuit. He's got 2 wins and always runs pretty good at Pocono, which has three different corners. He's got 3 wins at Darlington, which is obviously unlike any other track. And he holds the win record at Phoenix with 4, and that is yet another "oddball" type of racetrack. For me, when I'm ranking people for "greatest driver ever" and that type of thing, I use a pyramid system. The top of my pyramid is always going to be the same three guys: Petty, Earnhardt, Gordon. In my mind, those guys are the three greatest ever just for the fact that they were the faces of the sport for so long. Not to mention, their stats are way way up at the top of the stats list. Then, just below that, I have Pearson, Yarborough, Waltrip, and Allison. To me, both Jimmie Johnson and Tony Stewart belong in this group. And then, the next group I have just below that includes other champions like Rusty, Terry, Bill, Benny, and DJ. I find that it is easiest to group them up in this way. Call me crazy, but that's just the way I do it. 232. Daniel posted: 06.19.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tomy Drissi to drive the Tommy Baldwin #10 233. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.19.2012 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Chase doesn't lessen Jimmies carrer. It is stupid to think that. He was the best for 5 years and no one had the guts (or talent) to be better then the #48 crew. 2010 he SHOULD have lost it to Hamlin but instead Hamlin decided to go all "i'll make an un-needed pass on the 25th lap of the race and wreck myself when i have the points lead" Harvick wasn't good enough to win either because of the "Really Conservative Racing" style that RCR has. 2011 the #48 crew just plain run out of luck that had helped them get to 5 in a row and that Smoke decided to go all Hulk on the field and win everything in sight (acheiveing 'Living Legend' status in the process). The ONLY thing that holds Jimmie Johnson back is Chad Knaus. Chad has the ego the size of the Hindenburg and will not let it deflate enough to realize what he has driving for him. Chad shouldn't even be in NASCAR with all the times he has gotten busted. Of course you have those who say "NASCAR is just after the 48 team to prevent them from getting more championships." That isn't the case because this is all Chads fault. He has Jimmie f***ing Johnson, what else do you need Chad? If you decide to lessen Jimmie carrer because of the Chase, then might as well lessen 5 Richard Pettys championships because those came under 5 different systems. I'm starting to sound like DSFF. 234. 18fan posted: 06.19.2012 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even if you wanted to discount the championships, Jimmie still has 57 wins, which is 8th all-time and he has 23 more wins since 2002 (his first full time season) than anybody else. In terms of major victories he's won the Daytona 500, the Coke 600 3 times, 3 times at Darlington (although only one of those is officially a Southern 500 win because the current Darlington race counts in the record books of what was the Rebel 500), the Brickyard 400 3 times, and the spring Talladega race twice (Not everyone counts this race as a major anymore, but I put it here anyway). Plus, he's tied for the all-time lead with 7 Dover victories, tied for the all-time lead at Charlotte with 6 wins, the all-time leader in wins at Phoenix with 4, the all-time leader at Auto Club Speedway with 5, and the all-time leader in Las Vegas wins with 4. Add to those numbers that he tied the modern era record of 4 consecutive wins and is the sport's top clutch performer. 5 straight top 2 finishes in 2006 to put a healthy margin on Kenseth after being 150 points behind Kenseth with 6 races to go, in 2007 he distanced himself from Gordon with 4 wins in a row being some examples. 235. Eric posted: 06.19.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb, It true Dover is a tough track, but that track was tougher before the fall of 1997. Before the fall of 1997, Dover was a 500 mile race that was brutal on drivers. 236. cjs3872 posted: 06.19.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason I have said that the Chase has diminished Jimmie Johnson's career does not have to do with the number of championships he's won. Sure it's devalued the championships themselves, but not the accomplishment of winning them. Where I think it has diminished his career is that the oddball tracks host most of the races that he and his team don't even try to win because they're not Chase races. His success at Dover, Martinsville, and Phoenix has a lot to do with the fact that those races are all in the Chase. His two wins at Pocono (and his two wins at Darlington prior to this year) came before his and other teams that knew they were going to be in the Chase used those races as glorified test sessions. His team really doesn't go all out to win the road courses for the exact same reason, because there are no road course races in the Chase. I believe that, if not for the Chase, Jimmie Johnson may well have 10-15 MORE wins than he currently has, because of all the races in the middle of the season his team treats as throw-aways, because they're not races in the Chase (Pocono, Michigan, Bristol, the road courses), but his three wins in four years at Indy shows that if they truly wanted to go all-out and win those races, they could do so very easily. However, they would have no more than three championships, instead of the five they currently have. So yes I do think that the Chase has slightly dimished Jimmie's career, because it has lowered his win total, but having an unscrupulous character like Chad Knaus running things diminishes it a lot more. 237. cjs3872 posted: 06.19.2012 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, 18fan, two of Jimmie's three Darlington wins are Southern 500s, as the records for the post-2004 races carry over to the one race there, especially since 2009, when the Southern 500 name returned to the race. 238. 18fan posted: 06.19.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought I read somewhere that the post-2004 Darlington races counted toward the spring race records, not the Southern 500. I could be wrong though. 239. Anonymous posted: 06.19.2012 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It has to hurt Jeff Gordon that he is not the one who got 5 titles, and that the talk of 7 titles switched from him, to Johnson. But he can still keep his chin up, as he still has over EIGHTY wins and 4 titles. Tony Stewart is coming fast. Stewart will most likely tie Gordon in titles before is all said and done. Just my opinions. 240. Anonymous posted: 06.19.2012 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Because Stewart has won 3 titles since Gordons last title, and Johnson 5 since then, and Stewart and Johnson have won the past 7 Titles in a row.. Something tells me that trend will continue this year, shouldnt bet against it. 241. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.19.2012 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smoke was going to win a championship eventually even *IF* he didn't win it in 2002. Matt Kenseth was also going to get one eventually (yes he won in 2003 but still i wouldn't have bet against him even *IF* he didn't win it in 2003) With Kurt Buschs metric tons of talent, a championship was coming his way down the road. 2004 he NEARLY lost it on a tire that came off his car (he hits the water barrels, it is all over for him) RFR has come close 3 times to winning a championship (2006, 2008, 2011) since Kurt left. If Kurt didn't win it in 2004 and didn't piss off Jack, anyone of those 3 times Kurt could have won one It toke the #48 crew 4 years (2002-2005) to learn how win a championship. 2002: Despite Robby wrecking him at BMS (note to Jimmie, on a restart, green means GO!) they would have found a way to lose it. A Rookie Team can't win a championship in their 1st year. No one wanted to win it that year anyway. 2003: No one was going to catch Matt that year. He was top 10ing everyone to death. 2004: Blowing 3 straight motors didn't help their case at all. it was basically "championship or bust" 2005: Rumors was starting to get around the Jimmie and Chad weren't getting along. Reguardless of Points system, Smoke win easily. 2006: If Smoke didn't go back to the "old tony stewert" the 5 year run maybe never starts at all. Reguardless of point system, Jimmie wins this one. What if scenrios of course but still fun to play once in a while. 242. Red posted: 06.19.2012 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Where I think it has diminished his career is that the oddball tracks host most of the races that he and his team don't even try to win because they're not Chase races." I don't think that's fair at all. Under the Chase format, the best strategy is to concentrate on tracks that are actually in the Chase, so I don't see how you can penalize Jimmie for exploiting the format to his advantage. Honestly, it would stupid if the #48 team treated all races the same, because they don't all count the same. Why would they spend on a ton of effort on Pocono and Michigan when those races have very little impact on their ultimate goal of a championship? By your logic, whoever wins the Heat/Thunder series should have their championship "diminished" because they coasted through the regular season and saved their best stuff for the playoffs. Why exert energy beating the Cavaliers in January when the only thing that really matters is the playoffs? 1995 Subaru, I agree that Jimmie is mostly carrying Chad, but for some reason a lot of people think Chad is the main/only reason Jimmie wins. That's like saying Joe Montana was "made" by Jerry Rice. Just nonsense. If Jimmie teamed up any other good CC (Letarte, Parrott, Ford, Fennig) he'd probably still have 50 wins and 3-5 championships. Another thing nobody acknowledges about Knaus: he's really not that great of a race day strategist. He can build wicked fast cars, but his pit decisions sometimes leave me scratching my head. From 2002-2010, Chad pretty much made the same call every time: four tires. Before the last couple years of rock hard tires, that simple strategy worked. But now, with track position at a premium, I don't get the sense Chad is any better than the average CC at figuring out when to pit and how many tires to change. IMO, the best pit strategists are Paul Wolfe and Steve LeTarte. Maybe their cars aren't the fastest, but they find a way to get them up front. 243. cjs3872 posted: 06.19.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, what you say about what races the post-2004 Darlington races count towards the history of depend on what site you look at. For instance, Wikipedia agrees with you, and lists them with the spring winners, but other sites list them with the Southern 500 winners. The main reason being that the sponsor did not change in 2005 for the race at Darlington, but the race distance was increased to 500 miles. But when the Southern 500 name returned in 2009, many people, myself included, added the 2005-'08 records to the Southern 500, and even websites affiliated with NASCAR have included the ordinals to the Southern 500, as though the race never went away (for example, this year's race being the 63rd running). And Red, you make my point for me. Because of the Chase, Johnson's team does not concentrate on every race the same way, nor do they have to, which is why the championships he won are a little diminished, though the achievement of winning five straight remains astounding unmatched, and may stand the test of time. Despite what you hear those in the media say, drivers do not have to excel at every kind of track to win a championship, like guys such as Gordon, Earnhardt, Waltrip, Pearson, and Petty had to when they racked up their titles. In fact, if a team knows they're going to be in the Chase, they could actually throw away up to half the races and use them as test sessions. That's the biggest problem I have with the Chase, along with how it closes everybody up after the 26th race. But you're way offbase when you compare the NBA playoffs to NASCAR's Chase, because the outcome of every game matters in the NBA or NHL, despite the fact that half the league makes the post-season. In terms of the championship, not every race matters in terms of the championship. Just look at the sport's biggest events last year. Three were won by drivers that had never won before, none of whom made the Chase, and one didn't even run half the races. Now this year's biggest events are running truer to form, and the Daytona 500 winner is leading the points, but it remans to be seen whether or not this will truly matter come Chase time, but not every race matters in NASCAR, while every game is important in the NBA to some degree. 244. Ryan posted: 06.19.2012 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I promised myself at the beginning of the year I wouldn't post on here again or even shave my patch until Jr. won a race... Ta Dah! My wife is happy as hell, too. This is probably the most dominant he has been in a race since 2004 campaign (Daytona 500, Bristol night race, 'dega, Atlanta first race) Kyle Busch blow up again??? Darn. 245. Eric posted: 06.19.2012 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, I really don't think Jimmie was going to win a lot of races at Bristol even if there wasn't a chase. lets not forgot that Kyle Busch has 16 of his 24 career cup wins coming from driver tracks. That means of over 66 percent of Kyle's career cup wins come from driver Tracks. 9 of those driver track wins came from Richmond and Bristol matter of fact. 3 of Kyle's 5 cup wins at Bristol happened in the spring and that is too soon for a team to start experimenting for the chase in most years. The other thing not to forgot that Kyle's older brother Kurt for a time owned Bristol. Kyle and Kurt combined for 10 Bristol from 2002 to Spring of 2011. 246. Red posted: 06.20.2012 - 12:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the outcome of every game matters in the NBA or NHL" Except that it doesn't. With 82 game seasons, there's a good chance one game is not going to make much difference in the regular season standings, and an even smaller chance that it will ultimately affect the championship. Look at the NHL this year; the Stanley Cup Final was contested by an 8th seed and a 6th seed. In fact, the Kings had a LOSING record in the regular season, and still won the Cup. So every game clearly does not matter. In the NBA, neither team in the Finals had the best record in their conference, in part because they coasted at the end of the regular season to get healthy for the playoffs. It's widely known, and easily observed by the layman fan, that players do not play as hard during the regular season as they do when it really matters, in the playoffs. NASCAR is a bit different, because race wins still carry a lot of prestige, regardless of what point in the season they happen. But back to my original point, Jimmie is merely doing what he SHOULD be doing if he wants to maximize his chance of winning championships, and I think we all agree championships are the ultimate goal in NASCAR. It's only fair to evaluate drivers based on the context of their era, so it's off-base of you to diminish Jimmie's legacy for not winning enough "oddball" races, because he's doing exactly what he needs to do in the context of his era. Oh, and you're contradicting yourself when you mention Earnhardt as a guy who excels on all different tracks. In your debates with DSFF about Earnhardt's legacy, you always bring up the fact that he won 37 races at four tracks, showing that he isn't as versatile as Gordon and other legends. So is Big E versatile or not? At least be consistent. Furthermore, if you compare the wins of Earnhardt and Johnson, it certainly appears that JJ is more versatile, as he has less of his wins concentrated at the same tracks, even though he supposedly throws away races before the Chase starts. 247. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, you're right about Johnson not doing well at Bristol, especially early in the season, but the night race is one of those I mentioned that they really don't go all out to win, because they're already in the Chase. So it's no surprise that Johnson's only win there to date has come in the spring race. On the other hand, Kyle Busch has had to perform at Bristol in the summer and won there a few years ago when he was battling for a spot in the Chase, so he needed to win there in the worst way. I just think that if every race counted, as it should, that Johnson would have more wins than he does, because they'd try to win more races than they do. Usually, the only races late in the first 26 races Johnson wins when they know they're in the Chase is the Brckyard 400 and the September race at Richmond, and the only reason they care about those two races is that the Brickyard is such a big race and the September race at Richmond is the momentum-setting race to set up the Chase. Otherwise, I don't think they would care about those two races, either. 248. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 12:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, Dale, Sr. was not that versatile. Certainly not as versatile as drivers such as Bobby Allison, Richard Petty, and even Jef Gordon. What he did, and he was the best at it, was to take his strongest tracks and use his advantage there to fatten up his statistics. And as you said, 37 of his 76 wins, or nearly half, came at just four tracks. When he got a hold of a place, he almost never lost it, but he just could never get a hold on other tracks, no matter how hard he tried. And as for Jimmie Johnson, you're absolutely right Red, he and his team are doing what they should do, but my point was that it has kept them from doing more. If they had to, especially now that Hendrick's finally caught up, if not moved ahead of the competition, they could win 10-12 races a year if they wanted to, especially with weaker teams across the board elsewhere at Hendrick Motorsports, not to mention the other organizations. My statement was that using the races that they're on now that aren't on tracks that are in the Chase as glorified test sessions are keeping them from reailzing their full potential. I bet that if every race counted as they used to, Johnson could win 15 races in a season on all types of tracks if their team operated on a cylinders for an entire season. And as for your point about every game of an 82-game NBA season (it was 66 due to the lockout this year) not meaning much, remember that there was a tie for the league's best record this past season, so if those two teams had met in the playoffs, a tie-breaking scenario would have decided home court advantage in such a match-up. And I think two games separated the top three teams and about four separated the top four teams, so it does matter. 249. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 5:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have JJ ahead of Gordon in my all time rankings. 250. Anonymous posted: 06.20.2012 - 6:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, could you elaborate why? and if you could say, what is your top 10?? 251. Bill the Snake Charmer posted: 06.20.2012 - 9:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Japan, JJ is your #1? LOL. Let me see...... Petty, Earnhardt, Pearson are my top 3. Not in order butt hsoe are my top 3 drivers. Then after that Yarbourough, Waltrip, Gordon, Johnson and Junior Johnson (once again not in order). Johnson is #4 at best. 252. ch posted: 06.20.2012 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a side note, Joe Nemechek will. It be racing the nationwide race this week. So Danica FINALLY has a chance to make the top 10 in points still behind Bliss and Malsam, unless Brian Scott does better. 253. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 10:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, Anonymous (#250), I've never seen DSFF's entire top ten. I know mine, in order, is Richard Petty, Bobby Allison, Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt, Sr., Cale Yarborough, Darrell Waltrip, David Pearson, Junior Johnson, Buck Baker, and Herb Thomas. I now have Jimmie 12th behind Fireball Roberts (he was 16th on my original list). 254. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought I did a list once. A Top 25 list. But yeah, I'll elaborate when I shake off the cobwebs of the night shift lol. Quick version: 5 is a bigger number than 4, and JJ has pwned Gordon over the last decade in the exact same equipment from the exact same shop (at least until last year when Gordon was relieved and rejuvenated to be moved out of his own shop during the HMS Dale Jr rejuvenation project crew chief and team swap of 2011). 255. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought you only ranked the top seven DSFF, but I don't remember seeing a top ten list, but I could be wrong about that. If I am, I apologize. But one reason I have Johnson as low as 12th, given all he's accomplished, is that he has only been around for 10 years, though what a dominant ten years it's been. If he can keep it up for another 5-10 years, then I'll rank him in my top five. As I have stated, number of championships is just one measuring stick I use to rank the greats, but others include versatility, performance on the biggest stages (i.e. the biggest races), overall level of competition (in terms of fields and elite drivers), and longevity. 256. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.20.2012 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie is not going to be a dominate road racer anytime soon. He isn't horrible but isn't great. he is good enough to be there. (there are like 6 other guys ahead of Jimmie in that category in i can name) Richmond is Jimmies worst short track but he dominates Mville like no other. And for plate racing, it is either fest or famine. Either he is there or he isn't. And for tracks that Jimmie has most wins (CMS, Mville, Dover, ACS) account for 24 wins (or 42% of his carrer win total). Jimmie has is tracks thathe runs well at but it average or hit/miss everywhere else. 257. Anonymous posted: 06.20.2012 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just how bad is this season for Allmendinger? Mark Martin in THREE LESS RACES is ahead of him in points. 258. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#257), I do briefly bring up in post #168 that Mark Martin is ahead of Allmendinger, despite having run three fewer races, and it would have a better than average chance of being four if not for a blown engine late at Michigan, because Martin would have a very good chance of being ahead of Allmendinger after this weekend's race, as well despite not running in it. And 1995 Subaru WRX STi, what you're saying is that Johnson's career may be headed down the same path as Earnhardt, Sr. in terms of a high percentage of wins at a low percentage of tracks. 42% of Johnson's wins have come at just four tracks if what you say is true, and as I mention, one fewer than half of Earnhardt's 76 wins came at just four tracks. 259. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I either did a Top 25 list once or meant to cause I found where I had written out my list (with about 500 corrections where I changed my mind lol) in one of my Sudoku books. Knowing me, there is a good chance I wrote that out then never posted it. So here it is, with yet another few changes of the mind, but none from 8 on down. The biggest change? Herb Thomas and Buck Baker. What happened in 1956 was truly a crime against humanity (I'm not exaggerating one bit) and it is dumb luck it didn't end Herb's LIFE on the spot. Not only did it end his career and steal a championship that was clearly his, he had to have BRAIN SURGERY just to live through it. The story: the 1956 season was complete and Herb Thomas had his third championship locked up ('51, '53, and '56). But he had driven for the worst human being ever to be a part of NASCAR, Carl Kiekhaefer, for part of the season, then decided he didn't want to be associated with him anymore. He finished out the season elsewhere and had the title won over Carl's driver Buck Baker. But the wealthy Kiekhaefer rented some tracks that were not a part of the original schedule and got Bill France Sr to sanction those events. In one of them, he ordered another one of his drivers, Speedy Thompson, to wreck and injure Herb. He did. He hooked him into the wall sending him to the ICU, and handing the championship to Buck Baker. Carl, Speedy, Buck, and Big Bill all have blood on their hands for that deal. I'm penalizing Buck in my ranking for not burning his 1956 trophy and pissing on the ashes, then forcing Carl K to eat those ashes. How could he live with himself? Anyways here they are: 260. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1) Dale Earnhardt- 76 wins and 7 championships while driving 5th place or worse cars for 90% of his career = best ever 2) Richard Petty- 200 wins is still 200 wins. Yeah he had factory support, so did a lot of others. Watching people try to play down his career is sickening. They don't even have their facts straight. 3) David Pearson- Tried to win the championship 4 times and won 3 of them. So why isn't he #1? Cause he only tried 4 times. 4) Bobby Allison- 85 wins while never driving for the same team for more than 3 seasons at a time, usually a lot less. We have seen that career turmoil hurts results, yet he still won 85 times. Bad championship fades in '81 and '82, plus a "how the hell did he lose that one" in '72 pulls him down a bit. 5) Lee Petty- Lots of wins and championships in the "it is either win a lot or go for the title" era says a lot. Underrated historically as a driver. 6) Cale Yarborough- You want versatility? Look at this guy and his 83 wins. Only guy in the first 60 years of NASCAR to win 3 straight titles. Only downside is too many championship runner ups where he just got beat by people and teams who shouldn't have, especially 1973 and 1980. 7) Jimmie Johnson- I don't care if he has only been around 10 seasons. Already 50+ wins and 5 straight championships. And, yet again, everyone knew how the title would be decided in all of his championship seasons. Unless we are gonna revoke The King's 1974 Winston Cup title (after winning the Daytona 500, he pretty much only needed to show up for the rest of the races to win the title, see the 1974 Southern 500) then we have to recognize his 5 CONSECUTIVE titles. Besides, since 1998 ended, JJ is the ONLY driver to put together more than one championship contending season in a row together. He put together SEVEN ('04-'10). In the "a good year this year automatically means a non championship caliber season next yer" era, he has simply ruled all. When he hangs it up, I fully expect him to be at least #4 on this list, if not higher! 8) Jeff Gordon- Numbers jump off the page and are truly mind boggling. But we can't forget the Hendrick factor and the way he helped start out the 48 team to be his sister team to get info from, and they wound up beating him year after year after year. And I don't wanna hear "well Chad screwed everyone over". Let's just assume that is true. What would happen if he was Skinner's crew chief in 1997 when that team started up and tried to screw over the 3 team. 15 years later, he would still be trying to get Earnhardt's cowboy boot out of his ass. Dale would never stand for it. What if he tried that with Bobby Allison? How many times would Chad's nose have gone to beating on Bobby's fist? So either Chad didn't screw Gordon, or Gordon is a sap for not doing anything about it. The other factor that knocked him down this far despite his mind blowing numbers: Too many horrific late season fades ('95, '96, '97, '01, '07) and an overall inability to close seasons out (huge exception: 1998). 9) Darrell Waltrip- Outstanding numbers, but like Gordon, did his most damage for organizations that did just as good, and at times better, with other drivers. 10) Herb Thomas- Could have been way higher, but Carl Kiekhafer and Speedy Thompson tried to kill him while Big Bill France and Buck Baker stood by and passively watched. A 3 time Southern 500 winner and a should be 3 time champion. 11) Junior Johnson- One of the best ever, but pushed his equipment a little too hard cause all that mattered was winning. 2nd place and last place paid about the same. 12) Fireball Roberts- Earnhardt before Earnhardt. A hard charger whose driving alone was worth the price of admission for any race. Like Junior, didn't care about the championship, only wins. Won the Southern 500 twice, the Daytona 500 once, and the Firecracker 250/400 3 times. 13) Ned Jarrett- Not flashy, but very effective. Excellent broadcasting career has overshadowed his driving career. 14) Rusty Wallace- 55 wins, and a dominant force in NASCAR's toughest era ('86-'96, when the schedules were there shortest and the fields most loaded with legends in cars capable of winning, another big reason Earnhardt is #1). Won a championship and had two runner ups, in '88 to Bill Elliott (40+ wins, 26 from '84-'88 clearly his prime) and '93 to Dale (only the best ever). Dominant on short tracks, road courses, one milers, and flat 2-2.5 milers. Never a factor on the superspeedways. Kinda average on the intermediates under 2 miles (Charlotte, Atlanta, and Darlington). Kinda odd. 15) Curtis Turner- Pops! Drove like Earnhardt, but unlike Dale, didn't choose his enemies very wisely. 16) Joe Weatherly- Could have been higher, but died in a race while the two time defending champion. So who knows how high he could have gone. Is hurt by the fact he was Turner's bitch in the Convertible Series. 17) Benny Parsons- A championship and 20+ wins on all varieties of tracks while never being in top equipment. Like Gentleman Ned, his career is overshadowed by his outstanding announcing. 18) Bill Elliott- Another dominant force in NASCAR's toughest era. Too little versatility to be higher, although he is a bit underrated in that department. Getting all those wins at Dover and Rockingham is no joke. 19) Tony Stewart- Left too much on the table for a number of years for me to rank him higher. His meltdown in 2006 changed the course of NASCAR history. He could have been the one at #7 and JJ may have not even made the list, but JJ has this thing called a brain. Smoke's career is made worse by the fact that he has used it at times ('05, '11) but then tucks it back away. 20) Buck Baker- Maybe I am a little unfair on him, but how could he accept that '56 trophy? 21) Tim Flock- The 2nd biggest "lost in the sands of time" driver that was really good. Known more for being one of the 3 colorful brothers whose personalities and antics attracted people to NASCAR in the early days (Jocko Flocko anyone?) than his driving. 22) Bobby Isaac- #1 on the "lost in time" list. Dude was good. Damn good. Unfortunately best known for the voice telling him to get out of the car at the ultra dangerous Talladega track. And that is a shame. First off, it was smart to get out, safety was shit back then. I think Dale Earnhardt was in charge of safety innovations back then (which is to say there were none). Secondly it overshadowed a really good career. 23) Red Byron- Best known for winning the first ever race at Martinsville before NASCAR was even formed and being a decorated WWII hero. Just know he won NASCAR's first championship (the '48 Modified title) and the first championship in what would become the NASCAR (insert title sponsor here) Cup Series. Did most of his winning in non NASCAR sanctioned races cause NASCAR was really fledgeling at the time. 24) Fred Lorenzen- Best known for his hair, but he was damn good. First "Yankee" to make a huge impact on NASCAR. (everybody not from the South is a "Yankee" to us lol) 25) Mark Martin- Had to include him. Far too nice on the track which has held back both his overall win total and championship total, but still put up some good numbers in NASCAR's toughest era, and the only driver who could consistently run with Gordon during the Evernham Years. 261. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "what you're saying is that Johnson's career may be headed down the same path as Earnhardt, Sr. in terms of a high percentage of wins at a low percentage of tracks." Dude, in the prime of Dale's career they didn't run at many tracks! Of course he would get most of his wins on a small number of tracks. This isn't rocket science. In his prime ('85-'95), they had 28 or 29 races per year. They ran twice a year at Daytona (3 wins), Talladega (10 wins), Atlanta (9 wins), Darlington (9 wins), Bristol (9 wins), Martinsville (6 wins), Richmond (5 wins), North Wilkesboro (5 wins), Rockingham (3 wins), Dover (3 wins), Charlotte (5 wins), Pocono (2 wins), and Michigan (2 wins). Of course most of his damage would come at a small sample of tracks BECAUSE HE RACED ON A SMALL SAMPLE OF TRACKS. That is another aspect of Gordon's career: his good timing for winning at a lot of tracks. He was in his prime when new tracks appeared on the schedule like Indianapolis (new to NASCAR), California, Texas, Vegas, Homestead, Chicago, and Kansas. New Hampshire also showed up in his first season. Dale, on the other hand, had the opposite. He only got to race at Ontario twice (two Top 10s and clinched the ROY then the Winston Cup in those two years there), Texas World 3 times (tons of laps led, late race issues), 12 times at Nashville (2 wins, 9 Top 10s), and 20 times at Riverside (no wins but 14 Top 5s!!). And by the time he got to race at the newer tracks, he was injured (except 2000) and in RCR's lagging cars. Texas and California showed up in '97, Vegas in '98, and Homestead in '99. He was only winning at plate races in that time, so of course he wouldn't win at those tracks. Of the tracks that appeared on the schedule during his prime, there was Watkins Glen which he simply was never good at, Phoenix (one dominating win that crushed the souls of the Roush Racing team he was racing for the Winston Cup, 8 additional Top 10s in 13 starts), Sears Point (a very solid track for him, especially in the "carosel years", got 9 Top 10s in 12 starts and his long awaited road course win), Loudon (curiously he never really took to this track even though it would seem to suit him, a couple of runner ups), and Indinapolis (in 1995 he became the first Man to win the Brickyard 400, 5 Top 10s in 7 starts). 262. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks for your list, DSFF. I just printed the pages it's on so I can comment. First, the one reason I don't have Earnhardt higher than fourth on my list has to do with his relative lack of victories among NASCAR's "Super Seven", as he ranks lowest in the group in that regard, but his seven championships speak for themselves. It's interesting to note that, after winning his seventh championship in 1994, he put four goals at the top of his "to do" list. They were winning the Daytona 500, the Brickyard 400, aroad course race, and an eighth championship, in no particlar order. he got the road course and the Brickyard in 1995 and eventually the Daytona 500 in 1998, but even though he finished second in the points in 2000, 1995 was his last shot at the title. He was never going to win it again after that. As you said about Richard Petty, the sheer numbers speak for themselves, but I have Bobby Allison behind only Petty due to his stunning versatility and his big wins, but this comment is about your list, not mine. Pearson was great, no question about it, as he's still the only driver other than the King to reach triple digits in that category, but his lack of running the full season, and the overall lack of competition he faced in many of his victories, especially in 1972 and '73, detract slightly. Lee Petty was the most successful driver of his era, but not the best. Certainly winning the very first Daytona 500 (which you somehow left out) helps his case, as does being the first to 50 wins and 3 chapionships, but I think at least three, if not four of his contemporaries were better. Cale Yarborough was, in my mind, THE toughest driver in NASCAR history (as 560 starts without needing a relief driver even once proves), not to mention one of the best and most versatile, as well as being one of the best strategists from the driver's seat in the sport's history. Jimmie Johnson's place in history may always be questioned because of the unscrupulous man he has as a crew chief, but his five consecutive championships, while not under a full-season points formula, is undoubtedlty one of the greatest acheivements in sports history. Jeff Gordon, in my mind, the greatest modern stock car driver, is this era's version of Bobby Allison, at least on the track, so versatile that he's the jack of all tracks and the master of none. Darrell Waltrip built on the success that Cale Yarborough had at Junior Johnson, but he also helped lay the foundation for Bobby Allison's only championship, and was one of Rick Hendrick's first great drivers, eve though he got there after his prime years, and Herb Thomas may have been the best of his era, but was struck down by Carl Kiekhafer and Speedy Thompson in 1956 (the year before Thompson won the Southern 500). As for your next five, Junior Johnson was the best of his era, but never tried for the championship and drove too hard, possibly as a result of what happened at the 1962 Southern 500, Fireball Roberts was the best of his era in the sport's biggest events (though ironicaly, he lost his life as a result of a crash in such an event), Ned Jarrett was Junior Johnson's antithesis, yet both won 50 races. Rusty Wallace won 55 races, but always seemed to find a way to come up short at the biggest events (1 win, 9 second places in crown jewel events), and Curtis Turner was a spectacular driver who had more success in NASCAR's minor leagues than in the big-time (not unlike Kyle Busch or Carl Edwards today), though he did win the 1956 Southern 500 and drove for the likes of Junior Johnson and the Wood Brothers. Joe Weatherly was a two-time champion that was the Terry Labonte of his day, smooth, conservative, and knew how to use the points system to his advantage, resulting in back-to-back titles in 1962-'63, and is the only reigning NASCAR champion to be killed in an actual race. Benny Parsons was another conservative driver who won a championship and two of the sport's marquee events. his greatest win was the 1980 World 600, which he won in a duel with Darrell Waltrip, whi disspelled the notion that he couldn't run hard. Bill Elliott was the big money driver of his era, who could also win at the tough tracks. In addition to the wins at Dover and Rockingham you mentioned, DSFF, you forgot to mention Elliott won five times at Darlington, including three Southern 500s. Tony Stewart, a 3-time NASCAR champion, is perhaps the most versatile racer of his generation, and is still the only driver to win the title in both the pre-Chase era (2002), and the Chase era, and his two Chase titles couldn't have come any differently. In 2005, he didn't win any races in the Chase and won the title, while last year he won half the Chase races en route to the title. What may hold him back is his lack of big event wins. And Buck Baker, among other things, proved that you could be competitve at an older age. His win in the 1964 Southern 500, which was his final victory, came at the age of 45, and he ran competitvely in his final race at Darlington at age 57. If Herb Thomas was the biggest casuaty of Carl Kiekhafer's run in NASCAR, Tim Flock was the biggest beneficiary, as he racked up 18 of his 39 wins in one season, 1955, all driving Kiekhafer's cars. Bobby Isaac may be NASCAR's most forgotten treasure. Only recently was he knocked out of the top ten in the all-time laps led list, but his lack of big wins make him a forgotten figure in the sport's history. Red Byron was NASCAR's first champion, but his career was extremely short, so I can't say much else about him. Fred Lorenzen was the first great non-Southern driver and would have been a great sucessor to Fireball Roberts (his hero) as the sport's best big money driver if not for his premature retirement in 1967. He tried a comeback from 1970-'72, but it was a disaster. And Mark Martin may be to this era what Buck Baker was to the 1960s and 70s, and that's a senior driver who can still get it done, but can't decide when to retire, but Mark's accomplishments are great, but not what they could have been. 263. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes DSFF, Dale, Sr. ran on a smaller sample of tracks for the reasons you said, as they ran 29 races on about 17 or 18 tracks in his prime years before the season began to expand in 1993, but of those tracks that Dale, Sr. ran on in his prime, he ran well at about 12 of them, and struggled on a few others, but thrived on whatever tracks he got hold of first, which would be the four tracks he racked up 37 of his 76 wins on. Then when he got hold of tracks like Martinsville and North Wilkesboro, he started winning there, as well. 264. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks for the reply. I'll give my thoughts on some of your points which I respect and are well thought out but I may disagree with when I get back from the gym in my never ending quest to gain enough muscle to hit 180 on the scales (and I am 6'2" lol). What are the Super Seven? Just for the record, here is my Super Seven: 1980 1986 1987 1990 1991 (his fifth the year he turned 40, Gordon turned 40 last year, just saying) 1993 1994 265. Japan posted: 06.20.2012 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is Just a friendly debate, Please refrain from harsh comments, or anger, or whatever. (: Mature criticism is welcomed. 1) Jimmie Johnson, FIVE TITLES in a ROW, No matter what, five in a row is Five in a Row, Nicknamed Superman,and Five-Time, he is the best driver ever. You can make all the argument that you want, the chase", the lack of focus of other drivers", the crew chief", the fact stands that this is the most competitive era of NASCAR ever. When at least about 30-35 cars on the lead lap every week just about, and technology CONSTANTLY changing and much more advanced. This isnt stock car anymore, its a RACE car now, with absolutely no resemblance to a street car. It's much easier to lose than it is to win under all these circumstance. For those saying its Knaus, well he won two out of 4 races with Grubb as crew chief in 2006 when Knaus was suspended, and in the other 2 races? 2nd, 6th. He has started his career until now with 11 STRAIGHT top SIX point finishes in the year end standings, with 2 bridesmaids, and 5 titles in the first 9 years alone, (and NO LESS than 20 top ten finishes EVERY year), in the process catching and passing Gordon In the same equipment. He clearly has shadowed Gordon and Stewarts careers both. He has outperformed his mentor Gordon in every way, shape and form. He has a UnGodly ability to overcome in race issues (see 06 Brickyard, among others) and is the sports, Best closer ever. Like Dale Earnhardt, can wheel a not so good car, to a good finish. Just as a side note, his 2006-2008 scheme was one beastly and AWESOME scheme!!!!) and folks, its only his 12th year, he is Far from done. 2)Dale Earnhardt, The legend, the intimidator, driving that menacing black 3 car, strong armed his way to SEVEN titles. With 76 race wins, over 25,000 laps led, he is probably the most feared driver that ever raced. He is considered by a lot to be the best ever. 3)Richard Petty As much as it may piss people off, he is ranked 3rd and because inflated stats. With SEVEN titles,200 race wins,currently 1st in all time top fives and top tens, races started and poles,.. he has been deemed simply, The King, of stock car racing. To me, his statistics are Highly inflated, BUT NO disrespect to Richard. Over 30,000 of his total laps lad are on short tracks alone, and over 100 of his wins are on short tracks. Point in Point: His stats came at a time in which there were over 50, 60, and more races a year right?, when they ran even through the weekdays often, and alot were on short tracks. The cars were REALLY stock cars. and Not the advanced chemically imbalanced machine" that we have today. Basically all the crew did was, change tires, and put fuel in it. Not much strategy? Until the era came when it became more technological. Richard has finished on the lead lap in much less races then even drivers of today. This is Blindingly good evidence that there were not many competitive teams as there are now. And somebody with good equipment can simply beat everyone. To many he is number 1, and 200 wins is still 200 wins, and you can say, racing IS still racing" no matter what car but to be fair, This era is insanely the hardest that ever existed. 4)David Pearson, The Silver Fox has 105 race wins and 3 titles. Ran for the championship 4 times, won it 3 times. Led over 25,000 laps. Currently 2nd in all time race wins and poles. A Really smooth driver. 5)Jeff Gordon, Nicknamed the WonderBoy, the young version of Jeff Gordon was almost like Speed Racer. He gained momentum in his early years and took NASCAR world by a storm. The second half of the 90s, he was far and above the most dominating figure in the sport. Winning 49 races by the end of the decade. Won 13 races alone in 1998. Currently 3rd in all time poles. Currently 3rd in all time wins. Currently 2nd in all time races led. Has led well over 20,000 laps. Currently 400+ top ten finishes. And is Still active. He has the tools and talent to push his already astounding stats off the chart. 6)Bobby Allison, Doesnt get enough credit. Won just 1 title in his career, but it was the versatility that puts him high on the list. Winning 84 races OFFICIALLY, 85 debatable,) with Many different teams. Currently 2nd in all time top fives and top tens (until mark martin gets him soon--its likely), over 27,000 laps led. 7)Cale Yarborough, Anybody that can drive over the wall at Darlington, live to tell the tale, and even joke about it, is a cool dude in my book. I'm kidding. With 83 wins, and 3 STRAIGHT titles, he proved to be a force in his heydey. 8)Darrell Waltrip, With 84 wins and 3 titles, he is ranked 8th to me. Nicknamed Jaws, for his mouthing of drivers and annoyingness, he also proved to talk the talk and walk the walk. However, his career dragged on too long, quite frankly. 9)Tony Stewart, Nicknamed Smoke, this legendary driver showed in 2011 that he is just that, a legend. The driving in the final race of 2011 showed his True talent, He talked the talk, and walked the walk. Never finishing lower then 11th in points in 13 years so far, (2006, did that REALLY happen-.-?) A fierce and fiery individual, Stewart is only ranked 9th simply because the win count. Still has a ways to go before reaches the 70s, and 80s in wins, But with 3 Titles, he Makes this list In my opinion. And with time, He still has the tools and Talent to go really far ahead on this list. This was really up in the air as far as 10th goes but , heres a try.. 10)Lee Petty, He takes this place because he is a 3 Time champ, and 54 time race winner. Those stats are better then anyone else that could be around this place on this list. A respected driver. 266. Japan posted: 06.20.2012 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10 straight* for Johnson, my apologies. 267. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I refer to the Super Seven as the seven winningest drivers in NASCAR history. I originally called it the Super Six, but expanded it to seven when Jeff Gordon joined them a decade ago. I refer to them as the Super Seven, because the lowest victory total in the group (Dale, Sr.'s 76) far surpasses that of the next-winningest driver (Jimmie Johnson at 56), so the totals of the seven winningest drivers are far ahead of everyone else. 268. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.20.2012 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, Japan, but Johnson has less than 1/8 the talent of the likes of Earnhardt, Petty, and Yarborough. Johnson is up against a NASCAR where money is the ONLY thing that matters. Talent is no longer the factor. Back before the 90s, the schedule was filled with tracks that required talent, and cars that demanded it. Now we have power-steering and cars that have a smaller turning angle for hairpins than my car's turning angle for a bend in the road. Johnson is the best of his time, but don't compare him to TALENTED drivers. A race car driver USED to be an athlete. 269. ch posted: 06.20.2012 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In case you guys have not heard, JOSH WISE IS RUNNING THE FULL RACE THIS WEEK!!!!!! I'm so happy for him and the 3 car FRM team!! 270. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.20.2012 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF Racecar drivers are athletes, have you seen Jimmie Johnson work out? The dude is a machine. (except when he was falling off a golf cart) Being a racecar driver requires talent period. Reguardless of racing series or how tires touch the ground. Now i would say F1 and IICS driver have TOO EASY. Oh yes, TOO EASY. They have those (STUPID) flappy padel gearboxes, steering wheels that aren't round and cost about 75,000 dollars and have too much downforce. (that is reason why the Indy 500 had some many lead changes. Car are under powered and how TOO MUCH downforce) Here what your steering wheel SHOULD have on it: 1. a button for the radio 2. a button or knob to control your turbo boost 3. a kill switch for a stuck throttle Oh and it HAS to be round a like a normal steering wheel should be. It takes no talent to hit a padel and shift gears, it TAKES talent to go one handed around a corner at speed and shift gears. Too much technology can hurt racing and IMHO F1 and IICS are hurt by being too needy on technology and not enough on driver skill. (not saying they aren't talented but technology hides the talent.) 271. Spen posted: 06.20.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: "plus a "how the hell did he lose that one" in '72 pulls him down a bit." He lost '72 the same way Cale lost '73. The point system was focused on laps completed. Bobby blew up at Dover and Rockingham, two tracks with very high lap counts. Plus a very early exit at Talledega, giving him three races where he was in the garage with over 100 laps to go. Petty blew up at Daytona (which only has 200 laps), Charlotte (very late in the day, and only 400 laps.) and Riverside (with only 153 laps) Daytona was the only race where there were still 100 laps to go when he went out. Even if he'd won every race remaining on the schedule, those three early retirements would likely have cost Bobby the title. (And people think this system is too consistency focused...) 272. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "First, the one reason I don't have Earnhardt higher than fourth on my list has to do with his relative lack of victories among NASCAR's "Super Seven" " Of those "Super Seven", only Jeff Gordon and David Pearson have made fewer starts. Gordon (who is rapidly approaching Dale's career starts number) drove his races for the same organization that has fielded Jimmie Johnson's cars, a driver that has already surpassed Jeff's championship total and pretty much blown his doors off since he hit the scene as an unheralded (putting it mildly) rookie. And Pearson was famous for driving for teams that would cherry pick events in an era where that was an advantage. Besides, Richard Childress is quite simply not in the same league as HMS, the Wood Brothers, Homan Moody, and Cotton Owens. Considering who Dale drove for in his career and the career arc he took, 76 wins is a monumental achievement. "Lee Petty ... I think at least three, if not four of his contemporaries were better." The thing about Lee is he drove in an era where you had pretty much two courses of action. You could either take the "go or blow" mentality which would lead to many wins but would eliminate any chance of winning the championship (think Junior or Fireball), or take it easy, gather fewer wins, and take the title. Lee is the only person of that era to do both, winning more reaces AND championships than his contemporaries. "Rusty Wallace won 55 races, but always seemed to find a way to come up short at the biggest events (1 win, 9 second places in crown jewel events)" Again, the "crown jewels" were all on tracks that didn't suit his style (except Indianapolis). Daytona, Darlington, Charlotte, and Talladega, he has a grand total of TWO wins total at those tracks. If they built Daytona as a low banked two mile track, carved a short track on that peanut patch in Darlington, SC, and built a road course on that vast space of land in Alabama, then we are talking one of the greatest "big race" drivers ever. Purely circumstance. That is why I put much less stock on "crown jewels". Compare him to Dale Jarrett. Who is better? "Tony Stewart ... What may hold him back is his lack of big event wins." Now he is one that doesn't have a great excuse. Especially at Daytona. He has dominated Speedweeks at Daytona many years Earnhardt style, but wheras Dale always came across the most soul crushing of bad luck in the big race, Tony just shoots himself in the foot. He made no attempt to block Dale Jr in 2004, made a bad late race move in '05, executed a series of boneheaded moves in '06 setting the tone for the season that shall forever hold him back historically, just lost it in '07, made a HORRIBLE last lap decision in '08, and just plain has been invisible in the big race the last two years after outstanding Speedweeks. No cut tires, no running out of gas, no getting passed by cheated up Hendrick motors, no bad pit stops, just bad driving. Yet he is awesome in the Summer race (3 wins). Again, I don't put a lot on "crown jewels". This isn't golf or tennis there that is pretty much all that matters. But his Daytona 500 performances are definitely puzzling. "Red Byron was NASCAR's first champion, but his career was extremely short, so I can't say much else about him." Actually there is a reason why it was so short. In the late 1930s and early 1940s, well before NASCAR was even thought of, he was entering any dirt track race he could enter with his home customized cars and winning most of them. The they blew up Pearl Harbor and he enlisted in the Army Air Services. He flew an incredible 57 successful missions over Europe, but was shot down in the 58th one, crushing his left leg, causing him to be hospitalized for 2 years, and leading to a host of additional health issues. When he finally got out of the hospital, despite a horribly deformed left leg, he got right back into racing. He had to build a brace for that leg and literally bolt it to the clutch for it to be useful, but despite these limitations, he went back to racing, won the first ever event at Martinsville in '47, won NASCAR's first Modified championship in '48, and their first championship in what we now know as the Cup series in '49. But his health was failing so he had to quit as the schedule grew and grew. He wound up dying of a heart attack in his 40s. I guess what I am trying to say is that he was a badass motherf****r. "Yes DSFF, Dale, Sr. ran on a smaller sample of tracks for the reasons you said, as they ran 29 races on about 17 or 18 tracks in his prime years before the season began to expand in 1993, but of those tracks that Dale, Sr. ran on in his prime, he ran well at about 12 of them" Ummmm.... so he "only" ran well on 12 of the 18 tracks out there? That is 2/3 of them, that is damn good. 273. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks for the info Spen. I was wondering how he could set an untouched record for laps led in the Modern Era which hasn't even been approached, 4400+, nobody else has even come close 4000, yet still lose it even though him and Richard both had 10 wins. 274. cjs3872 posted: 06.20.2012 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Childress was far superior to Hendrick from 1984-'93, with the possible exception of 1986 and '89. In fact, Hendrick may not have even been the second-best Chevrolet team in some of those years, so that blows that theory out of the water. Hendrick only became a consistent top-notch team when, in consecutive years, he brought in Jeff Gordon and Terry Labonte. That's when Hendrick started to finally begin to realize it's potential. And I think part of Rusty's problem in the big events can be seen even now when you see him in the booth. His personality is tense, and that's what would happen to him in those situations. He would tense up, and as a result, would make decisions on the tracks he ordinarily wouldn't make that would cost him in the big moments. The same has happened to Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, and others when they get close to the big prize. One reason Stewart was able to beat Carl Edwards for the championship last year is that it was Carl Edwards he was battling, and he knew he could get in Edwards' head brcause how tense Edwards is. Stewart would never have been able to beat the likes of Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, or Matt Kenseth under the same circumstances, because those guys have a history of being at their best when the pressure is highest, and he would nev er have been able to get in their heads the way he got in Edwards' head at the end of last season. That's a fact. Some guys can handle the pressure and others can't, and Edwards has consistently showed that he can't. 275. Eric posted: 06.20.2012 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, I have to add to what DaleSrFanForever about Red Byron. One of Red Byron health problems I am guessing it was caused by a blood clot. Red had his leg rebuilt and that meant it had to be easy for him to get a blood clot. That meant it is possible to pin point Red Byron's fatal heart attack from a blood clot he had in his leg. Back the day when Red raced, it took much longer time to finish a race due to the speed the cars could go. You probably could picture how fast the 1950 Southern 500 was and I am sure that didn't help Red out any and the time to do a pit stop. The best way to put it is picture if Brian Vickers had a blood Clot in 1947 to 1951 time period instead of 2010. It would have been a big question mark what would have happened to Vickers because the advancements in the medical field weren't there in a lot of area a lot of time or didn't have the knowledge yet. 276. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.20.2012 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Win totals by year: 1984 Childress: 2 Hendrick: 3 (first season as a start up team) 1985 Childress: 4 Hendrick: 0 (Harry Hyde decides he has had enough of that smart mouth Yankee bastard Bodine) 1986 Childress: 5 Hendrick: 9 1987 Childress: 11 Hendrick: 3 (Dream Team, huh?) 1988 Childress: 3 Hendrick: 4 1989 Childress: 5 Hendrick: 8 1990 Childress: 9 Hendrick: 1 (the dreaded Lumina Years begin) 1991 Childress: 4 Hendrick: 3 1992 Childress: 1 Hendrick: 1 (epic shitting of the bed for both) 1993 Childress: 6 Hendrick: 1 Not as lopsided as you probably thought. Obviously HMS never got ahold of the Lumina. But considering HMS was brand new and RCR was really getting their legs under them, not to mention the best driver ever beginning in 1984, that isn't bad. And for anyone saying "wait a minute, Rick had 2 and sometimes 3 drivers for those win totals while Richard only had Dale", that is because Rick has always had something called "foresight" which is something Richard wouldn't know if it bit him on the ass. That is my point about Dale. Richard was not a great owner. That was not a first class organization. Yet Dale still dominated with them. HMS now has 202 wins with 15 different drivers. RCR has 100. Sixty seven of those were Dale's. Only 7 drivers have won for Richard. I don't see how this is even a debate. 277. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, there's a difference between winning races and being able to win a championship, and in that area, Childress and Earnhardt were far superior an overall team in those years. In fact, Earnhardt himself said that Hendrick didn't know how to run for a championship in those years and told him that personally. And also, Hendrick had more cars than Childress every year starting in 1986, so naturally the win total is going to be higher. But Childress' team was clearly superior until the middle of 1994 when the tide began to turn in Hendrick's favor on one of the most important days in racing history, May 29, 1994, the final day of the Unser family dynasty at Indy and, though we didn't know it at the time, the beginning of Jeff Gordon's reign as the top racer in the big leagues of American racing for a generation. 278. Anonymous posted: 06.21.2012 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #33 owner was Richard Childress Racing - the car had RCR insignia. 279. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#278), it was obvious that the #33 car for this race was a Richard Childress Racing entity from the moment that is became known that Austin Dillon was going to be the driver. This coming weekend, it will again probably be a start-and-park with Joe Falk, as Stephen Leicht is slated to be the driver. 280. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.21.2012 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course RCR was better positioned to win championships. They had something HMS didn't have. It was called Dale Earnhardt. If Richard had some knowledge of how to win a championship he would have done it at some point since 1994. The fact is until Gordon and Labonte showed up in '93 and '94 respectively they never had championship drivers. And yes that includes Darrell. He could win a championship with Junior telling what to do every step of the way, but once he left him he wasn't a champion anymore. Remember, his only other run at a championship, 1979 with DiGard, resulted in one of the most horrific championship chokes rivaling 1996 and 2010. Richmond was too inconsistent during his brief tenure there, Rudd and Scrader simply weren't good enough, and although Bodine had moments of brilliance, he was never a championship threat, he was too busy being a smart mouth Yankee bastard. Its amazing how the right driver makes a difference in championship probability for an organization. Was Osterlund Racing ready to win a championship in 1980? On paper no way in hell. In reality? They had Dale, the greatest ever, and that was all they needed. 281. Rob posted: 06.21.2012 - 2:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @post 151 i was just messing around. i was curious to see if i got any comments back. nascar fans on here are more civil than alot of the other sites ive been on. sincerely former nascar fan(open wheel/sportscar convert) 282. LordLowe posted: 06.21.2012 - 7:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF if you ever receive a letter from Brian France will it share the same fate as the letter you received from Rommney and the letter you expect to get from obama. 283. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 8:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said DSFF, Darrell Waltrip basically built a championship team for Bobby Allison. and that was a total team collapse, not just Waltrip. And Earnhardt wasn't ready to win a championship in 1980, either. It's just that everyone around him was in an unstable situation, plus that was the last year with the car they were racing. What happened to Earnhardt was a combination of his team being sold to someone who didn't want him and the fact that he wasn't ready. In fact, he said the worst thing that ever happened to him was winning the title in 1980, because he was unprepared and not mature enough to handle the outside pressures. And by the way, Childress not only had the best driver in Earnhardt, but he also had the best team in those years. He had arguably one of the three best crew chiefs in Kirk Shelmerdine, who often gets forgotten by history, and later the underrated Andy Petree, the best pit crew, "The Flying Aces", and surrounded himself with guys who were involved in NASCAR, like Cecil Gordon, who was a pretty good driver himself, and Danny "Chocolate" Myers, who's father and uncle were racers, and the best combination of power and reliability in the sport where engines were concerned. Childress had the best driver in Earnhardt, make no mistake about that, but he made sure to surround Earnhardt with the best team in the sport, which is why they were able to stay on top for so long. I don't know how long you've been watching NASCAR, but I have since the middle of 1989, so I know they had the best team then. Earnhardt made it click, but he would never have been as successful as he was for as long as he was without a team who's ability was equal to his. 284. Japan posted: 06.21.2012 - 9:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why is Matt Kenseth and Greg Biffle so good this year, and Carl Edwards umm..not good at all really..? 285. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 10:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Japan, it's called a championship hangover. Denny Hamlin went through it last year, Mark Martin in 2010 (though having Alan Gustafson as a crew chief for a second year and the #5 and #88 teams switched didn't do him any favors, either), and Edwards also went through it in 2009 he didn't win after 2008 until the final two races of 2010), and Jeff Gordon in 2008, when he winless for the first time since his rookie year one season after his best season in nearly a decade. Guys in recent years that have finished second have not done any good at all in the following year, unlike what happened in the late 80s, when from 1987-'89, the guy that finished second in the points, won the championship the following year. 286. Anonymous posted: 06.21.2012 - 11:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You are not putting something into account with Jeff Gordon's 2008 season because Hamlin, Martin, and now Edwards did not suffer a major injury the year after they finished 2nd in points in terms of affecting them in performance. Jeff had a pretty hard crash at Las Vegas in the 3rd race of the season. Jeff's back was in very bad shape for rest of 2008 and it wasn't getting better for most of 2009 either. Jeff also was diagnosed with back trauma in 2009. Jeff's 2008 was respectable with 13 top 5's and 19 top 10's, but his back was hurt pretty bad. We really don't know if Jeff would have been win less if he was healthy since he got hurt in the 3rd race of the cup season in 2008 since he was racing hurt and took a long time to recover from that hit he took. The best way to compare Jeff Gordon's 2008 season to is Dale Earnhardt's 1996 season. The only difference is the 3 team fading before Dale got hurt pretty bad at Talladega in July 1996. Dale wasn't healthy anytime after that before he had surgery after the 1999 season. The 3 team and the 24 team had drivers that got hurt pretty bad during the season after they finished 2nd in points. 287. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Anonymous (#286), you yourself said that we don't know whether or not he would have gone winless had it not been for the crash at Las Vegas (combined with his 2006 crash at Pocono, in which he was shaken up, as well). But another factor in his winless 2008 season was the rise of Toyota. They had so much more horsepower than the other makes for most of that season that it wasn't funny. And let's also not forget that Hendrick Motorsports, as a group, was behind for a good chunk of that season. Remember that Jimmie Johnson didn't do very well in the first half of that season, either. But injuries and big crashes aside, I think Gordon's team also had somewhat of a hangover from not winning the 2007 championship, as well. Most of his good running in 2008 came near the end of the season, when he became competitive with the fourth through seventh place cars, sort of like he is now. 288. Japan posted: 06.21.2012 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2008...the Carl and Kyle show" seems what everybody would name this. SO glad Jimmie came through and won!!!! (: 289. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.21.2012 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale might could have handled the success had he had a mentor, or a father type figure. The problem is he didn't have one on such a young Osterlund team. Had Jake Elder stuck around, I think he could have been that guy (you know, when he wasn't busy chasing his own crew members around trying to hit them over the head with a jack handle). When Jake showed up early in '79, he really collared the wild as hell Dale in refined him as much as a severly unrefined person like Suitcase Jake (one of the best characters in NASCAR history) could. But he left 1/3 of the way through 1980, leaving Dale without a father type figure for 1981. Actually, you know who Dale credited for being a mentor to him throughout his early years? Bobby Allison. And he never forgot that. As for the DiGard team, Darrell helped build it into the team that had the 1979 Winston Cup won until one of the most epic championship gags ever. Oddly enough, that same DiGard team with Bobby Allison had yet another epic choke in '82 to Darrell before finally winning it in '83. But I agree 100% about Shelmerdine. He is so underrated it is ridiculous. It is because Richard needed the spotlight, and Kirk realized this, and realized he needed to fade into the background to keep Richard's ego from imploding the incredible team dynamic they had (that is the one thing those #3 teams had, an unmatched team chemistry that, along with the talent of their driver, trumped their equipment's shortcomings). Since he is a quiet fella anyways, he fell to the backdrop publically despite being much more valuable to the team than Richard. One last thing about Kirk, had they pitted under the last caution in the 1986 Daytona 500 like Kirk (and Dale) wanted to they would have won that race going away. But Richard overruled them, saying they needed track position even though Dale had already once run down Bodine from several seconds back with no help. Good job Richard. Now we must forever call Geoff Bodine "1986 Daytona 500 Champion". If you'll excuse me, I have to go punch something. Ok, I'm back. As far as Gordon, the '08 Vegas crash definitely injured him and, along with the COT which never really agreed with him, pretty much made his next 3 years ('08-'10) a write off. He was not able to drive that car to his fullest capabilities for those 3 years. It did to him what the bone crunching '96 Dega wreck did to Dale for '97-'99 along with the dreaded "5 and 5" rules which never agreed with Dale. As for Jeff's vicious '06 Pocono wreck, that didn't seem to affect his on track performance. And if it scared him, he sure didn't show it. Don't underestimate the size of Jeff's balls. 290. Japan posted: 06.21.2012 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This years title appears to be between Biffle, Kenseth, Johnson, and Stewart. Harvick may be this years version of Stewart " but that remains to be seen. Though he hasn't won or led many laps, is quietly appearing in the back half of the top ten often, or sometimes. Can Stewart make it back-to-back titles? and tie Jeff Gordon with 4 this season? will Johnson get Number 6? will Biffle become the first driver to win a title in NASCAR top 3 series? or can the AMAZINGly consisent Kenseth pick up number 2? and further his legacy? or could guys like Hamlin or Harvick get their first?, seriously, what is your guys predictions?? (: 291. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.21.2012 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, if I got a letter from Brian, I wouldn't simply shred it. I would probably defile it first. 292. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.21.2012 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony could have won Daytona in 2005, if Jimmie Johnson didn't try to put Tony through the wall with blocking. (lets not forget, this during a time when Jimmie couldn't race on a plate track to save his life and caused 2 big one at Talladega that year in both fall and spring races) With that little thing that Jimmie did to Tony, it would lead Smoke to lay an ass beating on the whole field (including the 48 crew) that year. 293. jr88fan posted: 06.21.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @290, It will probably be between Hamlin, Earnhardt, Johnson, and Kenseth. BUT, if last year was any sign of things to come, then add Harvick and Bowyer to the list. 294. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru WRX STi, that's not what beat Stewart in the 2005 Daytona 500. What beat him was that Dale, Jr. got a run at him and that Jeff Gordon had the fastest car. When the incident you referred to happened, Stewart was already beaten. By that time, it was down to Gordon and Kurt Busch to decide who was going to win. And as for Gordon's 2006 crash at Pocono, let's remember that crash was the first in a series of four serious crashes in three or four years, which also included hard crashes at Charlotte, Las Vegas, and Watkins Glen. He didn't have any real bad crashes in either 2010 or 2011, and seemed primed for a great Chase run, but was screwed over royally by Richard Childress at Richmond, which took the starch right out of the #24 team, and it can be argued that it still hasn't recovered from that. Then there's was Gordon's self-inflicted roll-over crash at Daytona that may have set him back even more. It's not one or two things that have set Gordon back in the last five years, but a collection of five or six things, most of them major crashes, that have dulled his effectiveness to where he's just been battling for a spot in the top 20, and will be lucky to get back into the top 15 this year, as Gordon's the low man on the Hendrick totem pole this year. 295. Eric posted: 06.21.2012 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, What is you take of NASCAR on the latest side skirt and sway bar rule change that will take effect at Kentucky? If you are not aware, the changes are the following for the side skirts: Left side skirts went from being a minimum of 4 inches from the ground and a maximum of 4.5 inches from the ground to 4.5 inches min/5 inches max from the ground. The left-side skirts went from 4.5 inches/5 inches to 5 inches/5.5 inches. The requirements of the sway bar has changed. It is now The rear sway bar connecting link must be perpendicular to the ground at any angle at ride height. 296. LordLowe posted: 06.21.2012 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well CJS I think That we can say that Gordon's career is just about finished. 297. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, my reaction to the coming rule changes is that NASCAR apparently doesn't learn from its mistakes, because this change is somewhat similar to the imfamous "5&5 rule" from 1998, which produced some of the worst racing in recent history, because it's going to take away from the ability to make better racing, because the cars simply won't be able to run close together. Tom Sneva once said in the late 1970s, and he was referring to IndyCar racing at that time, that the sport needs close, competitive racing in order to grow. The more downforce NASCAR takes away, the worse the racing will become because the cars will not be able to run close together. The 1998 season finale at Atlanta proved that. It was one of the best races that year, and NASCAR decided that with the championship decided that t would do away with the "5&5 rule" a race early, and one of the best races of that season was the result. The reason the racing is not exciting is not only can the cars not get close to each other, but it's something Darrell Waltrip brought up at Richmond, and that's the point system. The drivers are just not willing to take any chances on the track, and as a result, you have extended green flag runs that have resulted in at least two race records, including a 17-year old record for the Coca-Cola 600 being smashed by about 4 MPH. That plus the fact that the cars can only go 70-80 miles on a tank of fuel, instead of about 100, have resulted in more green flag pit stops and less dependency on tire conservation, which has dramatically decreased the quality of the racing the last two years. It will be very interesting how the race at Sonoma plays out for those very reasons. And LordLowe, while I believe Jeff Gordon's days as a championship contender are behind him, though I could be wrong about that, his career is a long way from over. Remember that although he's not as fast as his teammates, especially on the high-speed tracks, that's he's still very competitve, and there's a chance that this rules change may play right into his hands. Remember that he's been at his best this year at the tracks where driving ability is a greater commodity, and if the rules changes puts a greater emphasis on the driver, we may see him back where most veteran fans are used to seeing him, and that's at the front of the field. That is assuming Alan Gustafson doesn't screw it up for him with his usually poorly called races. 298. Eric posted: 06.21.2012 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, I hope you are not talking about Jeff Gordon setting 20th in a race because Jeff has been running better than that for most of the time this year despite what his stats say. Jeff Gordon has been racing in the top 10 for most of the races this year when bad luck strikes him. His luck this year has been so bad this season that one writer on frontstretch.com predicated at Charlotte Motor speedway that that a lightning rod would hit Jeff Gordon's car and the car then catches on fire. Here are the races that Jeff had problems while he was running in the top 10. At Auto Club, Jeff was running 5th when he had 2 pit road penalties that weren't on the driver. The first was dragging a gas can and the 2nd one is for an uncontrolled tire. Jeff got a problem at Bristol from racing with Dale while racing in the top 10. Jeff was an innocent victim of what Clint pulled at Martinsville. Jeff was running in the top 10 at Darlington when he got a tire problem. Jeff was running in the top 10 when engine problems hit the 24 team late in the race. 299. LordLowe posted: 06.21.2012 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the 1998 Season Finale at Atlanta should Have been Rescheduled to a different day because of the constant rain. 300. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, where was it that I said that Jeff Gordon has been running 20th in races if nothing went wrong, because I don't remember making such a statement, nor did I say that Gordon's career was over. LordLowe made that remark. I just said that his days as a championship contender were probably done, but not his career. In fact, I think his career is a long way from over. He's been very competitve in the races this year, with few exceptions. His problem this year, other than wretched luck, has been speed. And I still think he's capable of getting to second all-time in top 5s, 500 top 10s, and possibly getting to 100 victories by the end of his career, and the coming rules change you spoke of may be a boon for him. After all, his best runs this year have come at tracks where the driver is most important, so if those changes put the importance of the driver back at the mid-sized tracks, we could be seeing him at the front more often. 301. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, the reason they tried so hard to get the 1998 season finale at Atlanta in on it's scheduled day was that a significant number of teams, as well as officials, had that exhibition race at Motegi to go to the following week. Otherwise, they probably would have postponed that race due to the rain, especially with the championship already decided. And that race ended up being shortened, and NASCAR threw competition cautions every 50 laps so that the teams would not have to make green flag pit stops on a pit road NASCAR couldn't get dry. 302. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.21.2012 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A Talladega race in 1998 (forget which one) was moved back 2 weeks because of rain. So moving the 1998 season finale would have caused more of a headache. NASCAR is going in the right direction with removing downforce. Cuz i all i hear on different forums is about how aero sensitive cars are. Well how do you want it? More or less downforce? Yes last time NASCAR removed downforce races became a complete and utter bore. But all i hear is how new the bodies will make "racing in traffic and dirty air" better. Well in case people do not get it, dirty air well ALWAYS be a problem. You can manage it but not get rid of it. 303. cjs3872 posted: 06.21.2012 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru WRX STi, the race you're referring to was the 1997 Winston 500 at Talladega. Prior to scheduled day of that race, Mark Martin hadn't won in closing in on two years. That race was postponed two weeks. In the interim, the series raced at Sonoma, this week's stop, and Martin broke his long winless streak there with his only victory at Sonoma. Then the series headed to Talladega, where the 2-week delay had everyone fearing a crash-marred affair, but it turned out to be the exact opposite. They ran the first caution-free race at Talladega, which Martin won for the second time in three years (he also won the Winston 500 in 1995). The fact that the event was run caution-free allowed Martin to average more than 188 MPH for the entire distance, an all-time NASCAR 500-mile record that still stands to this day. 304. 10andJoe posted: 06.22.2012 - 2:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sonoma entry list update: Chris Cook in the #19. 305. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.22.2012 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rain delayed races are usually the cleanest because everyone just wants to get the hell out of there. I think that '97 Dega race is what opened a lot of people's eyes to that. Well, that and the Monday race at North Wilkesboro that went caution free. Yep, a rough one groove short track went 400 caution free laps. A year earlier, that track had a race that had SEVENTEEN cautions (in 400 laps). I was at both races as a kid and still remember them. And personally I was glad they went ahead and ran that Atlanta race in 1998 even though they had to shorten it due to noise ordinances (Jeff also won a Charlotte race shortened due to noise ordinance issues after two long rain delays, both of which I sat through, that was a long night). The championship was already decided and the season was pretty dreadful. The racing was simply awful. They got lucky as hell with the Daytona 500. Undoubtably the worst 500 of the CBS era at the time (2000 shattered that) was saved by Dale finally winning the big race after years of heart tearing bad luck. The emotion of the post race made everyone forget what a pile of crap they had just watched. And it didn't get much better. 306. cjs3872 posted: 06.22.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I don't know if the 1998 Daytona 500 was the worst of the CBS era up to that point. After all, the races in 1982, '85, '90-'92, '95, and 1997 were pretty dismal, as well for various reasons, especially the 1985, 1990-'92, and 1995 races. The 1985 race was dull and monotonous after Cale Yarborough went out, so much so that NASCAR officials kept Bill Elliott in the pits an extra 20 seconds to have extra tape put on the right front corner, just so that he wouldn't lap the entire field, 1990 was even worse, 1991 had the pit road rules fiasco. And the 1992 race had every car that could've challenged Davey Allison damaged or knocked out in the big lap 92 crash, leaving the rest of the race to Davey Allison and Morgan Shepherd, who drove the Wood Brothers car. They could have raced 1500 miles that day and Shepherd would still have never passed Davey, who actually broke away briefly more than once and actually fought off two cars trying to draft by him at the 300-miles mark, and the 1995 race was another bore, with Sterling Marlin breaking the draft twice after Jeff Gordon, who had the only car in the field capable of beating Marlin, had pit road issues. 1997 wasn't very good, either, but at least there were six champions battling until the crash with 12 laps remaining that changed everything. So calling the 1998 race the worst in the CBS era up to that point may not be totally accurate. 307. Bronco posted: 06.22.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr somehow earned $4k less for winning this race now than he did in 2008. Also the first time he led the most laps in a race since Talladega in October 2010. 308. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 06.22.2012 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to the "Anti-Kyle Busch" of the NBA, LeBron James on winning your first ring. You did it the way people would never thought you would do it: with clutch performances in the pressure situations. You proved Skip Bias wrong (and you did reguardless of what Skip says). You have your ring and proved people including me in the process WRONG. One more thing, Dan Gilbert: you can suck it big time a$$hole. 309. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 06.23.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Dale Jr for winning a race, and dominating to do so rather than getting it on fuel mileage like his last win at Michigan (all wins are wins but it must be better for the 88 team to know they ran so well and won). I was starting to wonder if Dale was even going to get another win before he ended his Cup career, because it seemed in the races he was strong enough to win in last year and at first this year, he would always fade towards the end. 310. 10andJoe posted: 07.01.2012 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The #33 here was /not/ run by Joe Falk. It was a pure Richard Childress Racing effort, simply with Falk's name on the entry blank. Picture at Jayski's: http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2012/33cup.htm - second on the page, note RCR logo on headlamp decal. So the #33's owner should be listed here as Richard Childress. 311. David posted: 01.18.2013 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster: Scott Miller should be listed as the crew chief for Martin Truex, Jr., not Chad Johnston. Johnston took the week off to be with his wife when she was having their child. He also took off the previous week at Pocono, but that is already accounted for. 312. Nascar24 posted: 02.07.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go Dale Earnhardt JR! #88 Dark Knight Rises Mountain Dew Crew! 313. danny posted: 09.28.2020 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) before this race nobody since 1999 at Talladega had a lap 198 MPH or faster Marcos Ambrose did that and was the first polesitter since Michigan got repaved. 314. danny posted: 09.28.2020 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this race also was just the 2nd since 2002 at MIS to have less than 15 lead lap finishers. 315. Rich posted: 12.06.2020 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Marty Snider, Ralph Sheheen, Matt Yocum and Chris Neville were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: