|| *Comments on the 2012 Quaker State 400:* View the most recent comment <#377> | Post a comment <#post> 1. ericthenau posted: 06.29.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Before anyone posts any of their comments regarding anything that will happen in the Quaker State 400 at the Kentucky Speedway tomorrow, I would just like to congratulate Jimmie Johnson for becoming the first NASCAR Sprint Cup Series driver to win a pole position for a race at the Kentucky Speedway in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series. (Last year, the inaugural race at Kentucky Speedway's qualifying was rained out, so there was no pole winner for that race.) 2. 18fan posted: 06.29.2012 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First pole for Jimmie Johnson since September 2010 at Dover. Kyle Busch picks up his 3rd front row start of the year, all of them 2nd place starts. Kyle hasn't won a pole since last year at Watkins Glen. 3. Rusty posted: 06.29.2012 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully Bruton and the morons running this track actually having parking and roads. I saw a special on that disaster last year and I wanted to puke. This track wasn't ready to host a Cup weekend. 4. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like Penske is selling their Dodge engine shop to Andretti who will form an alliance with Richard Petty and run Dodges. RPM definitely comes out the winners on this one. Very worried about Penske and Brad. Nothing worse than being Roush's lackeys. 5. cjs3872 posted: 06.29.2012 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, you could see the writing on the wall, as far as the Andretti-Petty team-up is concerned. After all, besides Roger Penske and Chip Ganassi (who Andretti once drove for), if there was a team that Andretti would team up with, it would be Richard Petty's team. Remember that those two organizations teamed up for three years to get Michael's cousin John, who drove successfully for Petty during two separate stints, into the Indianapolis 500. Andretti would supply the cars, which would officially be fielded by Petty's team, and would cary the traditional Petty colors and #43, and let's not forget that the Andretti family has been friends with the Petty family for many years, dating back to when both Petty and Mario Andretti were sponsored by Andy Granatelli's STP corporation in the early 70s, and the early 80s. And as for Roush, his comment about Matt Kenseth joining the "dark side" next year is as revealing as it gets. If it's true that Kenseth is leaving Roush for Joe Gibbs, the opposite may be true. The reason is that Gibbs has always treated his drivers/NFL players like family, and Roush has always treated his drivers like parts of a machine. 6. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN Johanna Long mentions: 1. On lap 85 they let us know she was on pit road. This is a big deal. 7. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One football player who played for both Joe Gibbs' Redskins and Jimmy Johnson's Cowboys in the late 80's and early 90's said Joe told his players "Don't take steroids, they are bad for you and will have a bad long term effect on your health" while Jimmy told his players "don't take steroids, there is a test coming up next week". Kenseth deserves Joe. 8. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 06.29.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hopefully Bruton and the morons running this track actually having parking and roads. I saw a special on that disaster last year and I wanted to puke. This track wasn't ready to host a Cup weekend." Track does not deserve a Cup date period. Only Brutons little girl antics got the track the date. I feel bad for the people who are actually going there, not because of the racing but because of the heat. Gonna be in the 100s during the race. Hope anyone going stayes cool and safe and doesn't drink too much. I'm sure DSFF can add to that been our resident medical expert (or atleast with medical knowledge) because drinking beer or any other acholohic drink in heat like that doesn't do you any good. 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, drinking alcohol in that heat leads to dehydration a lot quicker. Btw, the term is "paramedic". Or "ambulance driver" lol. I'll answer to either. 10. Mr X posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just a friendly reminder Atlanta gave up a date for this place. What a bunch of BS. 11. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! The 18 team loaned their jackman to the Roush 6 team. It is like JGR is saying "you gave us your championship driver, we'll let you have our jackman for the night". 12. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good job Kurt. ESPN was kissing your ass saying how much you have matured after one week of acting like an actual adult (imagine that!) Then you just flat out wreck an underfunded team. Where is Rusty. Oh wait, we have that phony kiss ass Carl in the booth. Ugh. 13. Rusty posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the heat in Kentucky is this bad at this time of the year, why don't they swap dates with another track or something? Or better yet, dump this craphole and lets race at Iowa instead. 14. cjs3872 posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, Iowa's no better this time of year. Sure, it's a little cooler there, but Iowa's also got a reputation of severe storms and tornadoes (remember the IndyCar race there recently, which had two major thunderstorms delay the start of the race and delayed the start of the Indy Lights race until after 11 PM local time). Actually, the only place in the country that NASCAR runs that is devoid of bad weather this time of year is California west of mountains (trust me, I lived there for 30 years), which is why there's never been a concern about rain at Sonoma in 24 years, and why when NASCAR first ran at Auto Club Speedway, they originally scheduled the race for May or June. 15. Rusty posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't mean go to Iowa because of the weather, I meant go to Iowa because it would give us an entertaining race for a change. 16. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All I can tell you about weather is that it was 102 in NC today with the typical Southern summer humidity. Pure misery. 17. Spen posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I live in Iowa. Trust me, it's no better than Kentucky. Yesterday it was 97 degrees. *Inside* the house. And this close to the river, Iowa's humidity is just as bad as North Carolina's. 18. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The famous black #3 is back in victory lane and I feel......... nothing. It is just a number, and without The Man driving it, it is just like every other number out there. 19. Spen posted: 06.29.2012 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Could we race in Alaska at this time of year? The Nationwide race pretty much proved my point about the downside of night racing. The track conditions don't change much at night, so whatever you've got at the start of the race is what you're gonna have all night long. End result: one car leading for all but three laps. Congrats to Austin for winning it, though. 20. joey2448 posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will say this. I love everything about Austin Dillon and the 3 car (mostly because it's a fresh face in victory lane and such), but the one thing I cannot stand is the cowboy hats he and his brother Ty wear. It's so stupid, and they ALWAYS wear them. 21. rtcrules posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, now you know how Petty fans felt in the 90's. 22. Rusty posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with joey, the cowboy hat thing is stupid to me. But whatever floats their boat. Austin has a future though. I hope he races the #3 in Cup, enough time has passed since Dale, and if anyone should drive it, it should be the blood of Richard Childress. 23. cjs3872 posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Obviously joey2448, you haven't been around that long, because if you see old films of guys like Cale Yarborough, Lloyd Ruby, and Dale Earnhardt, Sr., among others, they wore cowboy hats outside the car quite often (check out the open for the 1981 Daytona 500 and you'll see Yarborough in a cowboy hat), particularly Ruby. Any time I see the Dillon brothers or Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., I think back to Lloyd Ruby, who wore a cowboy hat and even wore cowboy boots when he drove. In that way, Stenhouse and the Dillon brothers are somewhat of a throwback, at least in physical appearance to the drivers of the 1970s. 24. murb posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy for Austin Dillon and RCR. They deserved this one tonight. I agree with what a lot of you guys have said, Kentucky does not deserve a Cup race. That fiasco last year with the parking/traffic proves it. Yeah, it is a difficult but fun race track for the drivers. But you just know that they are going to be tools and repave it in a few years time, just like they have with all of these other tracks that have bumps in them. I much rather would have liked to have seen Iowa get the Cup race. Iowa is the perfect designed race track in my opinion. In a way it really reminds me of the old Pikes Peak Raceway (which was one of my favorite tracks) that used to have NNS and Truck races back in the 90s and 2000s. But Bruton's crew are so tight with Nascar that it was inevitable that they would get a Kentucky Cup race at some point. Hopefully tomorrow night's race won't be that bad, and we can get on to Daytona next week. 25. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why are they interviewing Danica? How about the much younger driver with much less funding that only finished 7 spots behind her? 26. joey2448 posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I live in Alaska, and there are days (such as today) that are sunny and beautiful and warm. There are a few small tracks around the state, but nothing that could hold a NASCAR race. Even if they wanted to build a track and facility, I don't know where they would do it. Probably Fairbanks (middle of the state), cuz it's hot up there in the summer (70's and 80's usually), as opposed to the southcentral area (Anchorage and Kenai Peninsula, usually summer temps of 50's and 60's). The best thing about it is the humidity is nowhere near what it is down south. The only thing about the summer months is that sometimes there can be rainy spells, where a low will move in and not go away for a while, like days, or even weeks. 27. cjs3872 posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Spen, Rusty, it was 107 in Baltimore, where I live, so I know how you feel. And Spen, as dominant as Dillon's car was tonight, it would have won in 120 degree heat, in changing track conditions, or on ice. It was that much better than anyone else. A tribute to how dominant Dillon was is the fact that Kurt Busch finished the race on seven cylinders, and STILL finished second becuase there were so few cars on the lead lap at the finish, and that Dillon was 12 second ahead of third place at the finish. The only way Dillon doesn't win the race would have been if something fluky happened, like the hood coming up and blinding him, which happened to him in the truck race there last year, or a blown tire or engine failure. In fact, had it not been for Mike Wallace's crash, Dillon would have lapped the entire field, as both Busch and Kevin Harvick, who were racing for second at the time, would hve had to make late pit stops for fuel, and he was 20 seconds ahead of fourth place Michael Annett when that round of pit stops started. 28. LordLowe posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I live in Texas and the weather here is pure torture. 29. LordLowe posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF do you drive a black ambulance with the number 3 on either side of the ambulance. 30. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just a friendly reminder Atlanta gave up a date for this place. What a bunch of BS." If people showed up for both then yes i'd agree. But people didn't dispite it being one of the fastest and toughest tracks to race on. And produces good racing. Bruton Smith got his way because he endlessly whined and complained (and filed a law suit i think) about not getting a date. So go figure. 31. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 06.29.2012 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also does anyone find it cheap that ESPN is getting rid of the Cut away car with Tim Brewer permentaly? I do. I"m a car guy, so having that with a knowlegdable ex-CC explaining everything to me help me understand what goes on (because i like learning). 32. 10andJoe posted: 06.29.2012 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Could we race in Alaska at this time of year? Only if you want the mosquitoes to carry away the cars to get at the drivers inside later... 33. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.29.2012 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, all the single digit numbers are assigned to high ranking official's rescue vehicles.. the lowest number I have ever worked on is 14 and it was a piece of shit with horrible suspension. My back and ass hurt just thinking about it. Ironically I used to work on ambulance 24 a lot. I tried not to think about it lol. 34. Daniel posted: 06.30.2012 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #49 J.J. Yeley & #52 Mike Skinner Out using fastest 43: #32 Ken Schrader & #36 Dave Blaney 35. Spen posted: 06.30.2012 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: "if you see old films of guys like Cale Yarborough, Lloyd Ruby, and Dale Earnhardt, Sr., among others, they wore cowboy hats outside the car quite often" Cale could get away with a cowboy hat. He was a genuine tough guy. Austin doesn't look *that* bad in it, but Ty looks like a nerd who's trying to look tough. Just plain silly. 10andJoe: "Only if you want the mosquitoes to carry away the cars to get at the drivers inside later..." Okay, maybe not. I've got zero knowledge of what Alaska's like in the summer. Only time I've ever been there is when some genius booked us to play in Point Barrow in the middle of freakin' *January*. 36. cjs3872 posted: 06.30.2012 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed Spen, and no driver ever fit the cowboy image better than Lloyd Ruby, right down to racing with cowboy boots. What I was saying was that there seem to be southern drivers today that want to bring back images of the old-style drivers, even if they don't fit the image themselves (Stenhouse fits that image, though I'm not sure about the Dillon brothers at this time). It's almost as if those drivers are, in some way, trying to paying homage to the past by looking like the racing stars from the past, even if they're not truly of that image. 37. Spen posted: 06.30.2012 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: "no driver ever fit the cowboy image better than Lloyd Ruby" Marty Robbins might argue that point. :) 38. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 1:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell, the mosquitoes need to take away some of these drivers. I say bring on the Alaska race. We can call it the "Don't You Feel Stupid Russia 400" in reference to Russia selling us Alaska for next to nothing before it was discovered it was packed with valuable resources. And the winner gets a giant salmon. But there must be a promise of no Sarah Palin there. I have a strict "no politicians at sporting events" policy. Especially now that NASCAR doesn't need them to bring attention to us like it helped when Reagan showed up at Daytona. But that was worth it for the winner's interview. It was Richard Petty being interviewed and being awesome like always while the president of the freaking USA just stood there happy to be in his presence. Oh yeah, Richard was, is, and always be The King. 39. Dinger22 posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In that way, Stenhouse and the Dillon brothers are somewhat of a throwback, at least in physical appearance to the drivers of the 1970s. " The only difference is the Dillons are the pampered sons of a millionaire, who've been given every break, have never had to work a blue collar job outside in the hot sun for a day in their life, and they wear cowboy hats as a conscious style choice rather than being someone that's earned that look because it helps them get through their job. They aren't real cowboys, and they're barely real southerners. And I'm sorry, but everything about Austin Dillon bugs the hell out of me. He runs the number 3 just for the attention it brings him, and everything about his personality seems manufactured to try to make himself into the fan favorite. He might as well just scream, "Hey everybody, look at me, I'm a real good ole boy race car driver, cheer for me! Love me!" The 3 is just a number, but you know he's the one that made sure it looked like Dale's 3. It didn't have to, and it didn't need to as a tribute. Get over yourself, Austin. 40. LordLowe posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also lets design the Alaska track similar to Langhorne and pave it with ice. 41. cjs3872 posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, Marty Robbins was a singer more than a cowboy, and a legendary singer at that. And when I made that comment, I was referring to elite-level drivers, which Robbins was definately not. He was a good driver, but hardly an elite one. On the other hand, Ruby was one of the best of his day, but he never had the luck to go with it, partially because of the team he drove for (Gene White's team). For instance, only once, with McLaren in 1975, did Ruby ever drive for an elite team at Indy, and his car only lasted seven laps (ironically, the number on his car that day). And Ruby was over the hill as a driver by that time. And Dinger22, the Dillon brothers are Richard Childress' grandsons, and came up the hard way, racing on dirt before moving up to NASCAR's major series. Sure having Childress as a grandfather helped because that gave them connections, but they had to earn their way up. Childress, a former driver himself, and their father Mike, who was also a good driver, saw to that. 42. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.30.2012 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Austin really had to do as much work as Ty. Austin wins one KNES race because NASCAR DQ'd the winner just to give him the win, and he immediately goes to the trucks. Ty at least won the ARCA title first. To be fair, both of them have capitalized on the opportunities given to them, but it doesn't help that Childress is spending millions upon millions to give them trucks that no one else can compete with while his Cup team falls into shambles. 43. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.30.2012 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I am sick of the weather complaints... I live in Florida where it gets to be 91 with heat indices higher than the temps you are complaining about. DSFF, I lived near Charlotte for a higher, and those summers were hotter than hell. 44. cjs3872 posted: 06.30.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, RCR's Cup team may be behind, but I would hardly call the state of his Cup team "falling into shambles". The fact that Kevin Harvick is still competitve is proof of that. A big part of Childress' problem is his other drivers. Jeff Burton is no longer competitve, while Paul Menard is usually a 12th-16th place driver who runs in the top ten every now and then. Austin Dillon can't get to Cup fast enough to suit Childress, as far as the competitve side goes. Michigan proved that. However, Ty is still three years away, at the very least, but I think Austin could be moved to Cup as early as next year and fare better than Burton and Menard are faring right now. Now Earnhardt-Ganassi Racing IS in that state of being in shambles, and has been since about this time last year, though having Juan Montoya as one of his drivers is holding that team back, and has been holding that team back for several years now. Jamie McMurray can still run with the leaders if the car is right, but it's obvious that Juan doesn't have the mental and emotional capacity to do so, and has proven that time and time again. The fact that Juan Montoya was uncompetitve at Sonoma, a road course where he got his one and only win (on fuel mileage it must be noted, as McMurray, then with Roush, had a much better car), should illustrate that point right there. Having Montoya is also a morale kiler for that team. That may be one reason why Ganassi has gotten behind Kyle Larson as fast as he has. 45. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, Montoya won at Watkins Glen in 2010. And he actually earned it. But I do agree, EGR is falling apart. I think they are just waiting on Kyle Larson to come in an bail them out. 46. cjs3872 posted: 06.30.2012 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, I completely forgot about Montoya's win at Watkins Glen in 2010, so thanks for reminding me. But my overall point about both Richard Childress not being in shambles, and about Earnhardt-Ganassi Racing being totally in shambles stands, as does my point about Montoya being a morale killer for that team. Jamie McMurray has proven, even in the last two years when EGR has struggled mightily, that he can run with the leaders if given the right equipment. And the thing about Larson is that, like Ty Dillon, he is at least three years away, if not as many as five or six years away, having just started out in stock cars. Let's just hope for Larson's sake, that Ganassi has learned his lesson from the Bryan Clauson diaster from a few years ago, though Clauson, like J.J. Yeley before him, has proven that he can't get it done under pressure in the big time. I also wonder if, in about two or three years, that Ganassi wouldn't try to enter Larson in the Indianapolis 500 one day in the future if he can get a test in an IndyCar. Remember that Ganassi once put Bill Elliott in an IndyCar at Michgan (in 1991) and Eddie Cheever, Ganassi's driver at the time, joked that Ganassi should bring him in, or he was afraid that Elliott might be a threat to take his ride. Ganassi also did a ride swap with Jamie McMurray and Scott Dixon a couple of years ago on a road course (I forget which one), and McMurray performed admirably, acoording to reports. 47. LordLowe posted: 06.30.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Montoya has two wins CJS as he got his second win back in August 2010 at Watkins Glen but other then that you are dead on about Montoya he has been an albatross that is dragging the team down. 48. cjs3872 posted: 06.30.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes LordLowe, I mentioned in post #46 that I had completely forgoten about his win at Watkins Glen in 2010. 49. 10andJoe posted: 06.30.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Austin wins one KNES race because NASCAR DQ'd the winner just to give him the win And I was just starting to think you were a not-bad chap after all, then this. *facepalm* >I also wonder if, in about two or three years, that Ganassi wouldn't try to enter Larson in the Indianapolis 500 one day in the future if he can get a test in an IndyCar. Well, from what I've read, Indy was actually Larson's first choice of career path. Hm. 50. 10andJoe posted: 06.30.2012 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) - Paul Menard's 200th start. 51. Eric posted: 06.30.2012 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Why are you ignoring the fact Scott Miller is no longer with RCR and is now with MWR as one of the reasons RCR is falling behind besides who they have as drivers? RCR lost Clint Bowyer and Scott Miller. Some people point on this site point MWR improvement to Clint, but Scott Miller did play a role in improvement of MWR. Scott Miller was RCR's director of competition and is now the Vice President of Competition. Scott Miller was one of the people responsible for RCR's rebound in 2010. Scott Miller had been RCR's Director of Competition from 2003 to September 2011. 52. Eric posted: 06.30.2012 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see Kyle Larson being 5 years away from cup. Kyle had a good debut, but he needs in my opinion 2 full years of trucks and 2 full years of Nationwide. What EGR needs to do is dump Montoya. While Montoya was in the chase in 2009, I think he held back the 42 team. The other thing is one of EGR problems is they screwed up by getting a rid of Brian Pattie. Brian Pattie is the crew chief that got the most out of Montoya. Brian's problem was Montoya. Montoya caused wrecks while Brian was Montoya's crew chief and Montoya hasn't been the same driver since an altercation he had with Ryan Newman in 2011. RCR has a driver problem besides no Scott Miller, but Austin going to cup in 2013 is a year too soon in my opinion. Austin Dillon himself told Sports Illustrated before the season that he wants to be a full time cup driver in 2014. The 2nd thing is having a 2nd season in the Nationwide series isn't going to hurt him. 53. Spen posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't say that Harvick's been competitive per say, he's just been consistent. Outside of Phoenix, he's led 40 laps so far this year, and hasn't been seriously competitive at any track longer than a mile. Fortunately for him, his worst finish of the year has been 25th, so that's keping him in the chase, but if he has a bit of bad luck, he could fall out of it. And I fully expect him to go winless this season, even if he does make the chase. Burton's got another problem besides his age. Drew Blickensderfer is not a very good crew chief. In particular, he tends to have Burton pit for four tires at every opportunity, which in today's "track position is king" style of racing practically guarentees that you aren't going to go anywhere. Especially since Burton's better on old tires anyway. Drew's good at setting up for plate tracks, but that's where his skills end. 54. cjs3872 posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Scott Miller leaving Richard Childress Racing to go to Michael Waltrip Racing has obviously helped MWR a lot more than it hs hurt RCR. Actually, except for the fact that Paul Menard isn't quite running as well this year as he did last, RCR isn't actually doing that much worse, and Menard is actually higher in points this year after 16 races than he was last year by three positions. Jeff Burton doesn't seem to have it anymore, but Kevin Harvick actually isn't doing that much worse than he did last year, either. Sure Harvick had won three times last year at this point, but led a total of nine laps in those three victories, and in two of those wins, he took the lead on the last third of the last lap (California and Charlotte), so Childress isn't actually faring that badly compared to last year. It just seems that way. I also wonder if he's putting more emphasis on his Nationwide program this year. Remember he didn't have a Nationwide program last year, but got one this year by buying Kevin Harvick's team. And Eric, Montoya's been a problem ever since he came to NASCAR, as he took that F1 attitude with him. Remember that the first significant thing he did in NASCAR was to run over his own teammate Scott Pruett to win at Mexico City. Since then, he has gotten just about everyone else mad at him at one time or another, and seems to have no respect for anyone, including greats like Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, and Mark Martin. Guys like Gordon, Martin, and Kasey Kahne, who he;s had numerous run-ins with, as well, tend to let things like that slide, at least on the track, but others that he's ruffled aren't so generous, like Tony Stewart, Ryan Newman, and most recently, Brad Keselowski, who he had a run-in with at Sonoma last year, will fight back and won't let Montoya bully them around. 55. NicoRosbergFan posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, 10andJoe, we all have our bad points. There has been only one other disqualification across all series since then, and that was Ryan Newman after last year's NHIS Modified controversy. If I recall, the offense that got Peyton Seller's win taken away because he was using the year before's shock, an extremely minor offense. Seems kind of suspicious for that reason only. I hope to heaven that Larson avoids Ganassi. Ganassi is career suicide and as long as he has Dixon and Franchitti, no one else will see top-notch equipment. Heck, he put Rahal and Kimball in a separate shop so that Franchitti and Dixon would be more protected, essentially two teams with one owner; I think that is more Target's doing though. Quite truthfully, though, I am not all bad. Just mostly ;) The thing I hate most about racing is that $$ decides who gets to do it. It isn't about the passion and talent, it is about $$. If you have enough money, you can be a successful racecar driver. Just look at Paul Menard... Why doesn't NASCAR have a program for poor people? They have a program that manipulates non-white and female people into racing, but they have nothing for poor people. I am 18, so my only hope of fulfilling my dream of racing is to get into the Rolex Series someday by taking out a mortgage. Just doesn't seem fair when in all the other sports all you need to be successful is the talent and passion. 56. LordLowe posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know and I am trying to that comment deleted as I basically repeated everything that Murb said on post #45. I just jumped the gun there. 57. LordLowe posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dang murb already commented that Montoya had another win before I did so Webmaster could you just delete my last post as it is completely useless now. 58. Rusty posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one who finds it lame when the grad marshal of a race is just the CEO or some high ranking employee of the company sponsoring the race? 59. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's hope for better TV coverage than last week from TNT. 60. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, I agree with you on that statement about the grand marshal. 61. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That usually seems to be the grand marshal for most races anyways: the CEO/a high ranking employee of the company sponsoring the race. Nothing really new about that. I predict a rather boring race (honestly I actually thought about giving this race a skip altogether, already skipped watching the Truck and Nationwide races and it doesn't seem I missed very much). Also predicting Kyle Busch makes it two for two at Kentucky and officially earns a spot in the Chase. 62. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad looks fast in the early going tonight. 63. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony has mechanical gremlins... 64. joey2448 posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think tonight's TNT coverage should be better because it's much easier covering an oval race, as opposed to a road course, where each camera only covers a portion of the track. On an oval, you can have a camera follow a car all night long and not miss any action. 65. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mikey lapped on Lap 36 in the car Mark Martin and even Brian Freaking Vickers have been awesome is. Danica is truly the New Michael Waltrip. 66. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *awesome in* 67. Rusty posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know that is the trend lately, Schroeder. I just think it is lame. It shouldn't suprise anyone that Michael Waltrip is running awful in good equipment. Joe Nemechek managed to outlast Mikey on the lead lap in his S&P machine while Mikey is in a car that has nearly won and has been top 5 several times. 68. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If NASCAR doesn't come off their asking price for TV contracts, we are going to just keep seeing more and more commercials. 69. LordLowe posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder are the drivers trying to give us a boring race on purpose. 70. Anthony posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No wonder people are ridiculing the racing, its because half of it isn't even seen because they take ad breaks every 5 laps 71. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anybody else have Track Pass from NASCAR's website? And is it screwing up on them too? 72. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) God this coverage sucks. Way too many commercials. Does anybody know if TNT is doing the Wide Open Coverage of Daytona again? 73. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love TNT's analysis. I think it is the best in the sport. BUT YOU GUYS HAVE WAY TOO MANY DAMN COMMERCIALS!!!!!! 74. Rusty posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR throws their weekly BS debris caution. This time for a plastic bag. 75. Mr X posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder what excuse Bruton Smith will have this year to keep this shithole on the circuit, I don't even mind all the commercials. 76. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now Bruton says there need to be competition cautions every week to create more restarts. 77. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't be surprised if Bruton managed to get this place a second date...probably at the expense of a much better track. 78. Daniel posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like a pretty bad race so far. 79. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is one of my 5 least favorite tracks on the schedule currently. 80. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, what are the other four? 81. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, this one so far is ranking right up there with worst of the year. Along with Texas. 82. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Attendance is way off last year. Bruton will blame it on the heat, but it is a combo of last year's traffic/parking debacle and crappy racing. 83. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Every time Bruton opens his mouth something stupid comes out of it, and there's always an excuse for poor attendance at his racetracks. 84. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just to keep with the theme "Let's bash Bruton Smith Day", what do you think of his redoing of Bristol? 85. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The other four are Auto Club, Michigan, Kansas, and Pocono. Really, all these damned cookie cutter tracks produce very similar racing-generally drab and dull. They don't have much of an identity them. Pocono may be unique, but the racing there tends to usually be drab as well. Surprise, surprise-all these tracks have held better Indy Car races than they have NASCAR races. 86. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My Top 5 least favorite tracks: 1. Las Vegas (since repave) 2. Kentucky 3. Charlotte (since repave) 4. Indianapolis (for stock cars) 5. Chicagoland Kansas will probably join that list with the repaving done to the track. 87. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oof. I knew I shouldn't have asked, because I knew Kansas would be on there. I'm from the Sunflower State, so obviously I'm a little biased. 88. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh man, CLASSIC Ryan Newman right there. 89. Silence Dogood posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Newman is a Piece of S*** 90. LordLowe posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is time to assassinate Brian France Burton Smith and all the others who have put NASCAR in the position that it is in today. 91. Mr X posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe I was thniking that, I just didn't want to say it, thank you. 92. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My top five least favorite tracks: 1. California (Even though they've had some okay races the last few times. But it is still a horrible track that does not deserve any type of races.) 2. Kentucky (Obviously.) 3. Chicagoland (Just seems like every race there is either a fuel derby or someone running away with it.) 4. Indianapolis (2008 - present. It seems like ever since the '08 tire debacle, Goodyear is WAY too conservative there now, so it creates terrible racing.) 5. Las Vegas (I guess it would be since they reconfigured it. From what I remember it was okay when it was flatter. But since they screwed it up, the racing has been screwed up. What a coincidence!!!) 93. Rusty posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm sure Bruton Smith will blame the attendance on the heat and they'll move this event to the spring or fall. What they should do with this track is bulldoze it and build a giant Walmart. 94. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think that the #48 car is by far the fastest car in a straight line. 95. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 48 is gonna win the race. Unless it comes down to fuel mileage. 96. Spen posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vegas is probably my least favorite, followed by Kentucky, Chicagoland, Texas and Indy in no particular order. 97. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad they took a date from Atlanta to come here >_> Let's look at the date swapping since 1996 ended: 1997: Texas for North Wilkesboro and date for 2nd Loudon over North Wilkesboro 2004: Fontana for Rockingham 2005: 2nd date for Phoenix over Darlington and a 2nd date for Texas over Rockingham 2011: 2nd date for Kansas over an improving Fontana, Kentucky for Atlanta All bad moves. Assassinate? Nah, let's just frame them for a felony. 98. Mr X posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Amen Rusty!! I pissed myself laughing. 99. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, so it is coming down to fuel mileage. But the 48 is still probably going to win. 100. BLabonte47 posted: 06.30.2012 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I don't know what you guys are talking about, this track and racing is great. They should take a date from Martinsville and give it to Kentucky. 101. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Most people who read that probably spewed beverage all over their computer screen. 102. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martinsville...? You've got to be kidding me. The only thing that I could find worse than that is if you had said they should take Darlington's race date away and give it to Kentucky. 103. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The coverage of this race is getting comical. 104. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OH MY GOD ANOTHER FREAKIN' COMMERCIAL 105. BLabonte47 posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Martinsville is flat and boring, nobody wants to see cars creep by at 70 mph. I'd like to get rid of both races to give Chicagoland and Kentucky both two dates, but I know people wouldn't like that. 106. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Knowing Bruton, I'm sure he could find a way to jimmy-rig it to take a date from Martinsville for this place... 107. Spen posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Considering that Martinsville is the only non-plate track where Bobby stands a chance at getting a legit top twenty, that's a rather odd sentiment. And dear God, three commercial breaks in one caution period????!!!!! 108. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oops, MRN's pit reporter just called this track "Kansas Speedway". 109. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BLabonte47 most likely hates every little short track in America. 110. BLabonte47 posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Naw, I'm just messing with you guys. This track sucks. I was going to say replace Bristol, but I forgot Bruton ruined that track lol. 111. Rusty posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " Oops, MRN's pit reporter just called this track "Kansas Speedway". " Don't blame him, it is pretty much the same track. 112. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Racing yes, shape, not quite. 113. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Kansas has a really neat top groove and great racing where you can divebomb the corners on the inside, Oh wait, that's right, it's becoming an LVMS clone this year... 114. LordLowe posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You had us there Blabonte47 you had us there 115. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @110, Thank goodness. 116. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, I retract my statement about the 48 winning. He might have a tire going down. 117. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @113 They had to repave, but not reconfigure. 118. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I said, virtually all of these mile and a halves are practically all interchangeable. The quality of racing is virtually identical. Calling Kentucky "Kansas" is perhaps understandable. 119. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is still a long ways to go, and the smart money is that Denny is gonna win. He has the best car and enough fuel. But do you realize *if* Brad hangs on and wins he will be leading the circuit in wins heading into June? Brad fans, 2010 sure seems like a long time ago, doesn't it? 120. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why Kyle, why did you have to run into the wall while leading with the best car? Why? 121. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Back at Kentucky, Brad Keselowski leads, back in a moment after a break." 122. Rusty posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race was seriously hard to watch. I hope NASCAR doesn't come back, but I'm sure Bruton will manage to find a way to get this wasteland a 2nd date at the cost of a track with quality racing. 123. KFC posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) MASHPOTATOESANDGRAVY!MACANDCHEESE!MASHPOTATOESANDGRAVY!MACANDCHEESE! NEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 124. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^What the hell...? 125. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn Larry Mac, just jinx the shit out of Brad will ya? 126. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And yes, I too am sick of that KFC commercial. 127. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @124 Probably an interloper fromn NASCAR.COM bringing his stupid comments here in an attempt to ruin an intelligent message board. 128. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "from" 129. Hardee's posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dress up like spiderman on July 4th and Get a Free Grilled Cheese Bacon thickburger! 130. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, Bob sure did screw Carl if they have to pit. Watch Jack break them up now, just like he always does with drivers and crew chiefs. 131. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anybody do a rundown of commercial vs race time during a broadcast? Would love to see one for this race. 132. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards in... 133. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allow me to correct my earlier mistake. PRN is doing the radio broadcast, and they just said 6 laps was 3 miles here. 134. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) PRN is Bruton Smith-owned, after all. 135. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Worst race of the year. Oh well, at least someone cool won. Congrats to Brad and the 2 team. 136. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 3 wins for Brad in 2012. 137. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congratulations to Brad Keselowski!! 138. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good job by Keselowski, but a very poor race overall. Jeff Gordon scores his 3rd straight top 10 finish. 139. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, PRN does all the races at the SMI tracks, and I believe IMS Radio Network covers the Brickyard 400. Everything else is MRN. 140. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle rebounded to get a top 10 and almost got by Allmendinger. That's a good recovery by that team. And congrats to Brad and the 2 team, they did a great job. I think you would be called insane if you said that Brad would have back-to-back 3 win seasons after the disaster that 2010 was for Brad. 141. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love Kentucky Speedway!!!!!! Just kidding, the race was garbage. Paul Wolfe is the best crew chief in Cup. First team to 3 wins. Involved in controversy then goes out and wins. I think it is dumb to get into it with a mid packer like JPM, but maybe it gives him the edge and chip on his shoulder he needs. 142. David posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Agreed. 143. Rusty posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That KFC commercial is incredibly annoying, and it appears to be aired every break. It isn't as bad as the Sprint commercial with the little girl though. WATCH OUT FOR MY ROOTS!!! 144. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Worst race of the year." I hate to sound like a broken record, but a race does not need to be exciting to be good and a race does not need to be good to be exciting. Sure, this was rather uneventful and it went by quite quickly, but the actual race itself was fine. Probably even better than quite a few others this year, IMO, because you had guys run well through well thought out strategy, guys run well on outright speed and on the other hand, guys run poorly due to bad strategy and guys run poorly through driver error. 145. DaleSrFanForever posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol, 30th for Mikey in one of the best cars out there. The similarities between him and Danica are uncanny. 146. Dave#38Fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) say what you will about the quality of racing, but a truck regular won the truck race, a nationwide regular won the natiownide race, and jimmie, kyle, kevin, or carl didn't win the cup race. that's a GREAT weekend in my book. 147. murb posted: 06.30.2012 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You make some good points, myothercarisanM535i, but I'm still very disappointed with this race, and more importantly, this race track. Yeah, it might have had some intriguing strategy. But for me, when I think of a good race, I think of two main things: Close racing action, and lots of passing. And I really did not see much of that tonight, other than Kasey Kahne's epic drive up through the field and a little bit of jockeying on the restarts. But other than that, it was a terrible race on a terrible track in my eyes. Before this weekend, I thought Kentucky was a track that had some potential. But overall, I was highly disappointed. Of course, that's just my opinion, and you're free to have yours... 148. joey2448 posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #123 - LOLOLOL!!! I, along with everyone else I'm sure, am tired of all those commercials, but that was one funny post. And post #131, TeamPlayersBlue, I know that Jayski comes out with a race broadcast/commercials breakdown every week, so look for that. After last year, I thought Kentucky was a terrible track, and it's still not good, but I'll be honest, I thought the racing tonight wasn't half-bad. Kasey Kahne had an awesome comeback from lap(s) down to finish second. I thought he was gonna catch Brad at the end there, with the ground he was making up. 149. Spen posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The main problem with Kentucky is that it's a multi-groove track with only one useful line. Unless your car is totally perfect, you can't pass anyone on the bottom. There's nothing inherently wrong with a one-groove track, but it works best when there really *is* only one groove, and everyone has to fight for that one piece of real estate. Multi-groove is also fun, when it works right (ie: Homestead). But a multi-groove track where only one works just gives us a bunch of drivers running their own races nowhere near each other. And for me, that's not all that fun to watch. 150. 55fan4ver posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever How could you talk about poor ol' Mikey like that! Mikey's a two-time Daytona 500 champion who is now past his prime as a driver! He's worked hard all these years trying to prove his talent and ability and all you did is make a fun of him even with him past his prime. You forget that Mikey had to struggle in equipment that was on par to the likes of Jimmy Means for the first 10-15 years of his career and has earned the right to race past his prime! He only had major corporate backing from brands like Post, Country Time, Pennzoil and Citgo. It took a sponsor like NAPA to show the kind of driver Mikey really can be. Look at all those funny commercials he does. I tell ya, it brings a tear to my eye! I just love that NAPA Know How commercial with Michael on the piano shaking his booty! In any case getting back to my point, Chuck Rider and the Wood Brothers teams just weren't capable of giving Mikey the kind of equipment he needed to be successful. That win in the '96 Winston was 100% pure driving skill on Mikey's part! 151. 55fan4ver posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I failed to mention good ol Mickey is legend as a driver and as a car owner. 152. myothercarisanM535i posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "147. murb posted: " Man, of course you're entitled to be disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I believe that a good race can still be a boring race. I mean, during this race, it was interesting to follow the progress of different drivers throughout the event as many guys ran the race in completely different ways to each other, but it certainly wasn't overly exciting. The point that I'm trying to make, is that a race is a bunch of guys competing to see who can complete the specified distance in the shortest amount of time. And during this race, that's exactly what we had. There was no controversy, no drama, no chaos or confusion, but that doesn't make it any less of a race. You mention that to you, a good race is defined by close action and the quantity of passing. I can certainly agree that those are the things that make for an exciting or entertaining race, but that they aren't required to make a race, a race. I just worry that when we forget what the definition of a race is, that's when it all goes downhill. 153. Schroeder51 posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey, Darrell Waltrip is posting on here! Under the name 55fan4ever. Hey Darrell, I'd like you to know that everytime you say "BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY" I want to rip my ears off. 154. Anonymous posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) myothercarisanM535i i always disagree with every post you make 155. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another joke of an attendance estimate brought to you by the fine folks at NASCAR. Turn 4 was empty, Turn 1 was half empty, at least 1/3 of the tower seats were empty, all compared to a full house last year. 156. Ed posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon is rolling. 3 straight top 10s now, heading to a track where he's won 6 times, and went from 31st to 6th in the last 3 laps just one year ago. 157. LordLowe posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this season has been just dreadful from god-awful racing to abysmal announcing its like this season was meant to fail in every conceivable way. 158. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And whats funny is Bruton Smith accused Churchill Downs of padding their attendance estimates for the Derby. What a joke, can't believe the taxpayers of Kentucky had to pay for the improvements in parking and road access to this shithole. 159. Cooper posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So proud of BK. It's an honour to watch this kid race. Every year that goes by he gets better and better. He learns more and more and is finding that balance of patience and aggressiveness. He really has a shot at the championship this year. Currently right now with looking at the next 15 years, I would take him over everybody else. Keep Rracing hard BK. Average race. It's just so hard to pass out there. Maybe next year the new body styles will emit better racing. but overall the racing is still better than it was 3/4 years ago so we can't complain. Prediction for next week: Jeff Gordon takes the checkered flag. He is the winner of next weeks Coke Zero 400. Bad calls by Bob Osbourne all the way around. No matter how you calculate it, they made the worst move possible. Epic fail by that team. Kyle Busch is too wreckless still. While leading the race, he pancaked the wall and ended his chance to win the race. That boy never learns. June Bug continue to rattle off good races. Don't count him out of this years championship. They seem to be knocking off Top 10's like there nothing. The wildcard race is absolutely spectacular right now as we have a 3 way tie between Newman/Kahne/Logano for the second wild card. I believe Kahne is the favourite out of that bunch to get to the chase. Casey Mears is more impressive driving for Germain Racing than he was for Ganassi and Hendrick combined. He might deserve a third chance at a top ride. Michale Waltrip is hilariously embarrassing. Runs 30th in a top 10 car. *Shakes Head* Overall, I'm starting to look forward to this summer stretch as I see a lot of good, close racing coming up. Hopefully Daytona doesn't disappoint. 160. Daniel posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow....Waltrip only beat out Frank Stoddard's car. Embarrassing. 161. 18fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kyle was complaining that his car was losing the nose behind the 13 car when he hit the wall, but he could've avoided the wall. He had the winning car but hit the wall and lost the handle. I was impressed that they were able to repair that car and he was as fast as anybody at the end and managed to get a top 10 finish. Kyle has been fast every week for the last two months, but in the last 5 races the finishes have not matched the performance. This one was his fault and as he started dropping back I started cursing him for throwing away the race. Good thing is that he is 32 points ahead of the three way tie for the 2nd wild card. So unless he totally tanks, Kyle should be safe for the chase because he's the only guy I can see from outside the top 10 who could potentially knock Brad out of the top 10 in points. 162. Dave#38Fan posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) actually mears had a third chance to drive for a top team already, he drove the rcr #07 in 2009. but if you don't consider ganassi 2003-2008 a top-tier team, they he has only drove for 2 good teams. BK racing had a good night, with both kvapil finishing 17th and cassill in 25th (not sure what happened there, he ran around 21-23rd all night) i believe this is the first time both of their cars have finished in the top 25 in the same race. predictably, no mention was made of either of them for the entire broadcast; yet, they played the kentucky fried chicken "mashed potatos and gravy! mac and cheese!" commercial AT LEAST six times during the numerous commercial breakes. overall bad telecasting all weekend, with for some unGodly reason michael waltrip now being a regular addition in the booth for the truck races, carl replacing rusty in the nns booth, and a commercial at least once every 20 laps tonight. maybe they hoped the massive ammount of commercials would prevent people from seeing the bad racing? 163. Cooper posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "161. 18fan posted: 06.30.12 - 11:37 pm" You're right it was an impressive drive from Kyle. But he has done this his whole career. He has amazing talent, but him and the #18 team just love to make it tough on themselves. Kyle just needs to be patient. The dude will get the hang of it eventually, it's just going to be tough to watch a guy be a 1/2 time champion when he could've been a 4/5 time champion. 164. 55fan4ver posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I am not Darrell Waltrip. I this site on the Michael Waltrip pages before Darrell Waltrip did under different names and one them isn't Darrell Waltrip. 165. Cooper posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "162. Dave#38Fan posted: 06.30.12 - 11:48 pm" I completely forgot about that year. Nevermind then. He is still impressive though this year. Maybe he has found a place where he truly thinks he belongs. I always find it interesting when a race car driver does better with something less. Good on him and I think he deserves a shout out. 166. Matt L posted: 06.30.2012 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some notes: 1. Good win for Brad K! 2. Amazing drive by Kasey Kahne 3. Nice runs for Travis Kvapil and Casey Mears 4. Michael Waltrip flunks compared to Martin and Vickers driving the wheels off the #55 this season 5. What happened to FAS Lane this season? Uncompetitive off the trailer. 6. All the cars outside the top 35 parked tonight, kinda sad. 7. TNT's 1,000 KFC commercials will highlight the memory of this race 167. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "myothercarisanM535i i always disagree with every post you make" I'm not surprised at all. I'm from a different part of the world with different a different culture and way of life and that carries over to our racing. I'm not offended by that at all, that's just how things are. I don't post my opinions to stir the pot or creative controversy, it's just input from another NASCAR fan. Disagreeing with my opinion doesn't bother me in the slightest, just making sure you guys don't get me wrong at all. If people didn't disagree, what would a good debate be? Cheers, people. 168. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just got home and saw that Brad shook off his incident with JPM and performed great in tonight's race. So glad for him, his past few weeks before tonight were iffy. 169. murb posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the bright side, I think the championship battle this year is going to be incredibly interesting. Just as Cooper was saying, the Wild Card battle is really shaping up. I still would not count Jeff Gordon out for one of those spots. We're going to Daytona, Indy, Pocono, Watkins Glen, and Atlanta before the Chase starts. And as long as they don't have bad luck (and Gustafson doesn't screw them over), then he has a chance to win all of those races and potentially get one of those spots. But the championship battle has a ton of storylines. Will Jr keep the consistency up? Will Kenseth become a lame duck? Will Jimmie, Denny, and Brad keep winning races? Will someone like Bowyer or Harvick or Kyle make a "Smoke in 2011" run? Will Kurt Busch make a run? (lol, Just kidding on that one...) So other than the so far disappointing races this year, it seems like we are going to have a really interesting championship battle this year. 170. 1995z71 posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #33 sponsor: LittleJoesAutos.com (it's missing the "S" in Autos) 171. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The biggest thing for Brad is he needs to work on consistency. He did that great tonight. At one point he went from passing Kyle for the race lead early to only being a 4th place car. Instead of trying too hard to get back up front he led it in 4th, didn't mess up, didn't speed on pit road (for once) and let Paul Wolfe do what Paul Wolfe does: be the best crew chief out there. It was elementary from there. And I know I keep harping on it, but 2010 was so damn depressing that it makes his success over the past year that much sweeter. 25th in points with a best finish of 10th only twice, I was convinced he had ruined his career by going to Penske. But that place turned out to be perfect for him. I know I certainly cherish these good times that I thought would never some. 172. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Matt L, except for when the Wood Brothers show up, or when Richard Childress runs the #33 car, instead of Joe Falk, everyone outside the top 35 in points that qualifies the rest of the year will likely be a start-and-park, except for rare circumstances, such as the race later this summer at Watkins Glen, so that means there will be seven or eight start-and-parks in every race the rest of the year, except for when the #21, or an RCR #33 show up the rest of the season. And there may also be races when the #13 S&P's, as well. And let's not forget that the #36 Tommy Baldwin car may also be a start-and-park for some races. That means that there could be races with as many as 10 start-and-parks in the field. The odd thing about that is that the networks never consider that when they bring up the point standings, and refer to 47 points as a full race worth of points, where the correct margin for a full race is more like 30-32 points that can be gained with all the S&P's amd the other non-competitve teams that are running, such as FAS Lane Racing's #32 car, the #47 of Bobby Labonte, the FRM cars that run the distance (#34 and #38), the BK Racing cars, which usually aren't competitve, the #13 usually isn't competitve, though it was tonight, as well as the #10 car, whoever runs it. That means that there are no more than 25 cars capable of serious. That means that there are even nine or ten cars in the top 35 in points that aren't even competitve. And that doesn't even count the number of competitve cars with uncompetitve drivers, such as the #31 RCR car, the #20 JGR car, which was uncompetitve even before Ryan Newman ran over it. Seriously, those cars (20 and 31) are being outrun for most of the race by BOTH BK Racing cars? And what was Bob Osborne thinking, leaving Carl Edwards out on the last caution with 55-60 laps to go in a race that had only one incident, and that was caused by a blown engine? That was about as dumb as Alan Gustafson running Jeff Gordon out of fuel midway through the race last week. Only Carl Edwards' ability to save fuel got the #99 as close to the finish as it got (four laps). There will be drama next week at Daytona, there always is. But one thing that will not change next week is the top ten in points, as a group. There's now a full race worth of points (34) between 10th and 11th in the championship standings. 173. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) *come* not some and he *rode* in 4th for a while. 174. murb posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Much respect, myothercarisanM535i It's nice to see people from other parts of the world take an interest in Nascar. I've read and heard so many people from other countries who look down on Nascar, calling it "rednecks going around in circles", or whatever. And you're totally right about the debates. That's what makes this board so fun!!! 175. 18fan posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) With a tendency for big wrecks early in plate races, especially in the back half of the field, it will be interesting to see how early some of the cars park next week. Gordon is only 10 points behind the 3-way tie for the 2nd wild card, so if they keep racking up top 5 and top 10 finishes and get a win or two Gordon could be in the chase. It looks far less far-fetched for Gordon to make the chase than it did a few weeks ago. 176. 10andJoe posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Actually the sponsor on the #33 should be "Circle Sport Racing". Both the hood and quarter panels were blank. 177. BON GORDON posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah Gordon just needs a win or two. I feel Gordon could be 11th-13th in points by the chase with a win at New Hampshire and make it in. Im just worried about Daytona next week with the overheating issues and potential big one. If Gordon can make it out of there with a Top 10-15 ill be very happy. 178. BON GORDON posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im just worried about Stewart and Keselowski. I want them to stay in the Top Ten. 179. Eric posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad is now about guaranteed a spot in the chase. If Carl Edwards misses the chase, this race can be pointed as one of the reasons the did. Frontstretch.com was not off when they said TNT lost the bleeps, the sweeps, and the creeps in their review of TNT's broadcast for Sonoma. I think the bleeps, the sweeps, and the creeps isn't the only thing TNT lost. This race might as well be called the KFC 400 by the amount of KFC commercials TNT showed. I'd be happy that TNT will be done doing Cup races this year once the New Hampshire Motor Speedway race is over. TNT got an overkill of commercials including the never ending amount of KFC commercials the shown during the race. TNT needs some changes next year. 180. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.01.2012 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How did the traffic situation turnout this year? 181. Mike posted: 07.01.2012 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @cjs: The 49 has been going the distance in quite a few races as well - as far as I can tell Dover and Michigan are their only start and parks this year. 182. 10andJoe posted: 07.01.2012 - 1:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...wait, Bruton actually seriously suggested the mandatory-caution thing? I believe the Godzilla Facepalm is called for here... 183. Spen posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least next week we should have another non top-35 team going the distance, as Turner Motorsports will be making their Cup debut with Bill Elliott driving. This will probably be the last time Bill goes the distance in a Cup race. 184. lugnut posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mashed potatoes and gravy!! Mac and cheese!! 185. LordLowe posted: 07.01.2012 - 7:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey for next weeks race at daytona why don't they use the aero package that was used during the pothole 500 two years ago and was also used at that years Firecracker 400 which produced some really great racing and a lot of lead changes. 186. Anonymous posted: 07.01.2012 - 9:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, What do you expect from the same guy who brought us this shithole and the new LVMS? It's not NASCAR's fault that most of his tracks are shit and produce spread out single-file racing. 187. Anonymous posted: 07.01.2012 - 9:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Casey Mears continues to improve, Tommy Baldwin's program continues to slide. 188. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 9:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike (#181), the #49 team was running th full races earlier in the year, but they've now S&P'd in most of the recent races they've qualified for (which isn't very many). And 18fan, Jeff Gordon won't be in the Chase, because he's not going to win this year. An example of one reason why occurred on one of the restarts. He was on the preferred outside line and had two cars under him, but when he saw that, he backed off instead of running hard entering the corner. And let's not forget that, starting ninth, he lost eight positions on the very first lap of the race because he was unwilling to stand on it early. Now he eventually made up most of those positions prior to the caution for Scott Riggs, but you have to stand on it on restarts, and he doesn't seem willing to do that. Let's also remember that his is the slowest of the Hendrick cars on the high-speed tracks, and that was proven again. Once they get by Loudon, his next chance for a win doesn't come until Bristol in late August. Also, there's now a full race gap (34 points) between 10th an 11th, so while Gordon could get up to 11th or 12th in points, I don't think he could get to 10th in points, and that's his only shot at making the Chase, since his car doesn't have the speed to win on the high-speed tracks, and what do you have after Loudon? A lot of high-speed tracks (Pocono, Indy, and Michigan) before you get to Bristol, and he's been terrible at Watkins Glen for going on a decade, except for 2007. In my view, time has run out on Gordon this year, even with nine races until the Chase, and when the Chase starts, we all know that Hendrick puts all his resources on the #48 car, so there's no chance for any of the other HMS cars to win during those final ten races. 189. ch posted: 07.01.2012 - 10:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 49 ran the full race last week at Sonoma and so did the 26. Wise's car could run another handful of races later in the year too. Also, BK Racing will run the 73 for Reutimann when Danica is in the 10. 190. Cooper posted: 07.01.2012 - 11:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hilarious Tweet... Brad Keselowski '@keselowski Woke up this morning with a sting hankering for mashed potatoes and macaroni and cheese. Not sure why... Mashed Potatoes and Gravy! Mac and Cheese! Mashed Potatoes and Gravy! Mac and Cheese! Never! Thank you TNT and KFC for creating a new trend. 191. Red posted: 07.01.2012 - 11:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Gordon won't be in the Chase, because he's not going to win this year." "When the Chase starts, we all know that Hendrick puts all his resources on the #48 car, so there's no chance for any of the other HMS cars to win during those final ten races." cjs the clairvoyant strikes again. The arrogance and certainty with which you make predictions is hilarious. Jeff Gordon could conceivably win 3-4 races and easily make the Chase via the wild card. At Daytona, there's 25 cars with a chance to win, and that includes Jeff. Loudon is a glorified short track, so Jeff definitely has a chance to win there. At Indy last year, he had by far the fastest car and only lost due to fuel mileage, so I'd say there's a good chance he'll be fast again this year. Jeff won a race at Pocono last season, and was pretty strong in the June race this year, so he could easily win there. Watkins Glen I'll agree has been a house of horrors since 2001, and Michigan is a pure horsepower track so he probably won't win either of those. But then Bristol and Richmond are short tracks right in Jeff's wheelhouse, and he was a serious contender for the win in both of those races last year. And of course he won Atlanta in 2011, as it's more of a handling track than a horsepower track, so there's no reason to think he won't be strong there again. Of the nine races left before the Chase, Jeff will have a chance to win in seven of them, and will likely be one of the favorites in four (Indy, Bristol, Atlanta, Richmond). Your theory that the #24 has less speed then the other Hendrick cars is bogus. They've been fast most of this season, but have been undone by comically bad luck and some awful strategy calls. Yes Jeff has been tenative on restarts, but with all the green flag racing we've seen in 2012, there's a good chance some of these races will end without any last race restarts. There is also no evidence that HMS rigs the Chase so the #48 is the only team with a chance to win. What logical reason would Rick have to sabotage three of his fours teams' chances to win a championship? I think the last decade has proven that Jimmie and Chad are simply the best tandem at HMS, so it's silly to think there's some deeper conspiracy. For someone who supposedly prides himself on being objective, you sure love to cling to a predetermined narrative even when things change. Like how you keep insisting that the #24 team tanked in the 2011 Chase because they lost morale after the RCR/Richmond controversy, and continued to beat that drum even into this year. What proof do you have of that incident even affecting the team at all? You don't. But you're too busy standing on your ivory tower, playing amateur psychologist and making pompous statements of certainty as if you KNOW EVERYTHING. You're starting to remind me of those talking heads on political news shows who rigidly cling to their platform and repeat the same verses ad nauseum, even when they have no facts to back up their blathering. Don't be like one of those guys, cjs, you're better than that. 192. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think I am gonna eat mashed potatoes and gravy or mac and cheese (both of which I like) for a long time. And for the only time in my life, I wish I worked at Hardees so I could see just how many dumbasses show up dressed as Spiderman. They need to get former Hardees driver Cale Yarborough to make a special appearance behind the register and use his humongous forearms to club any adults over the head who dressed up as a superhero in public just for a free burger. 193. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, as far as what HMS does when it comes to Chase time, I use history as my guide, and since 2008, only once has a Hendrick car other than the #48 won a race in the Chase, and that was the 2009 Chase opener at Loudon, which was won by Mark Martin. That's a pretty significant chunk of history to look back on, and the other Hendrick teams usually fade in the Chase. That's also a fact backed up by statistics. Even Jeff Gordon's 2007 Chase was a tale of two halves. He was brilliant in the first half, as he had been all season, but faded badly in the last four races after Martinsville. As for my saying that Gordon's been slow this year. That's been true at the high-speed tracks all year. In fact, I don't think he's led even one green flag lap at these tracks, while each of his teammates have dominated at least one race at those kinds of tracks. And when I said that the next shot Gordon has after Loudon to win is Bristol, the races at Atlanta and Richmond happen AFTER Bristol, which is why I didn't mention those races. And Gordon just doesn't have the outright speed to be a threat at Pocono and Indy, and he's been mostly terrible at the plate races the last four years, with the Firecracker 400 in 2010 being the only time he even saw the front late. If he had the speed he had last year, then I'd say Gordon has a definite shot to win some of these races, but he just doesn't have the speed. His cars are still handling, but just don't have the speed. And one other thing. You say what happened at Richmond didn't have a profound impact on what happened to Gordon during the Chase last year and early this year. I disagree. A loss like the one he had at Richmond last September is capable of damaging an athlete or team so much psychologically, that it could take months, possibly even years for them to emotionally recover. I think the same thing happened to Gordon after his goof at Watkins Glen in 2007. It took him nearly four years to fully get over that, because he could no longer finish races the way he had in the past because he was afraid he's mess up, and was timid as a result. It wasn't until the spring race at Phoenix last year that he finally got over the hump of being able to finish out a race. I think the same thing happened to that entire team after the Richmond debacle last September, and they only started to get out of it a couple of months ago. And remember hat happened to Donnie Allison after the 1979 Daytona 500? He was never the same driver after that. He was a top driver before that race, but only a shell of that after that event, because what happened that day tore him apart psychologically to the point where he never really recovered. Those kinds of things can happen, even to those that we think are the strongest athletes or teams. And I've seen this same kind of thing happen in other sports. Does the 1988 World Series and how what happened at the end of game one affected the rest of the series ring a bell? 194. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.01.2012 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, after the 1979 Daytona 500 nobody wanted to give Donnie a ride anymore. Somewhere in that arose a misconception that Donnie fought Cale even though he didn't have half the involvement that Bobby did. Also, cjs, don't forget Brad last year. That was quite the recovery. Red, the reason for Hendrick to crap on his other teams comes Chase time is that Hendrick gets a check bigger than Egypt's economy for every title Jimmie wins, plus there was the whole prestige of the hack winning 5 in a row. For Hendrick, prestige means more than the moral ethics of letting the best driver in his team win. It has been that way since the controversy of Jeff losing in 1996. See 2007, the same situation was about to happen, so why not play in Jimmie's favor? Even though Jeff had had arguably the greatest season since Cale Yarborough in 1977, there would have been too much controversy since Jeff had fewer wins. Same thing with Mark in 2009. People, for whatever reason, violently hate the "older" drivers. Even last year, the heart of the controversy with Tony winning was that people were sore that a 40 year-old driver played the rule system better than a young punk. Fans want thuggery more than class. In NASCAR's case, they just want ratings. To them, Jimmie making the NASCAR have the tied-for-second most uncompetitive stretch in entire history of auto racing (tied with Schumi 2000-2004, second to Loeb in WRC 2004-present) was a great ratings hike because they saw it as the creation of a dynasty, even if the Chad Knaus is the most classless crew chief ever. It is all about the $$, Red, $$. We can wish for the perfect word of the early 1960s, but it will never happen. 195. 10andJoe posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor correction: After looking it up, it appears the #33 is being run by "Circle Sport, LLC", so the #33's 'sponsor' should be listed as "Circle Sport" (not "...Racing") for Pocono, Sonoma, and here. 196. Anonymous posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really don't think would Rick give all his teams crap during chase time for a reason outside of Jimmie Johnson for this year. In past years that Dale Jr. isn't the chase, Brian France blamed Jr. for the ratings when he isn't winning and isn't in the chase. Brian Frances belief has been if Dale Jr. does well, it would be in the best interest of NASCAR. Based on how Brian Frances thinks a Championship Dale Jr. is good for NASCAR. I am sure the brass for NASCAR would tell Rick in no terms that don't give Dale Jr. bad equipment for chase time. That doesn't mean NASCAR is doing to tell Rick to fix the chase for Dale Jr. in terms of being the only driver with good equipment with the other 3 HMS teams having junk or the Stewart Haas Racing have junk in the chase either. I don't think NASCAR would try to fix races for Dale Jr for winning the chase or fix races for Dale Jr. in general. 197. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I dunno. The Jeff Gordon I have watched all these years would be extra motivated and pissed off by the bullshit shenanigans of RCR at Richmond. Remember, it was at that same track in 1998 that Rusty blatently dumped Jeff for his Bristol bump and run a year earlier while the crowd cheered wildly. Up to that point, despite 4 wins, he had been inconsistent. He was only like 4th in points (if I remember right, Methfield of all people was leading). He won 7 of the next 9 races and followed that streak with 3 straight runner ups and didn't finish out of the Top 5 again until Phoenix which him and Evernham never really got ahold of. Please correct me if I'm wrong. 198. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It is time to assassinate Brian France Burton Smith and all the others who have put NASCAR in the position that it is in today." If your being serious then do something then. If your not, then don't kid something like that. Saw the end of it atleast. Glad Brad won, someone deserving of it. Work on being consistant, be there at the end of the season. I think DSFF will agree with me, the 2 crew isn't a championship team............yet. "I hate to sound like a broken record, but a race does not need to be exciting to be good and a race does not need to be good to be exciting." Only reason i didn't watch this one was because KenSUCKy Motor Speedway doesn't deserve a Cup date and that TNT for some reason this year just doesn't care about broadcasting races with good quality. Other then that i agree. "just worry that when we forget what the definition of a race is, that's when it all goes downhill." I think most of us forget it quite often. "...wait, Bruton actually seriously suggested the mandatory-caution thing? I believe the Godzilla Facepalm is called for here..." Bruton Smith is on par with Bernie Ecclistone in terms of stupidity. "It's nice to see people from other parts of the world take an interest in Nascar. I've read and heard so many people from other countries who look down on Nascar, calling it "rednecks going around in circles"" NASCARs been above that sterotype for a while now but it is the people that watch it that continue to give NASCAR that sterotype. Shamful but true. "Even last year, the heart of the controversy with Tony winning was that people were sore that a 40 year-old driver played the rule system better than a young punk." What? Are you serious? Good god man. Tony won it because he just WANTED more then anyone else. Not because he 40 freaking years old and that he played the system better. He just WANTED it more. "Fans want thuggery more than class." I think fans are thugs too........with some of the wild accusations that they make. "In NASCAR's case, they just want ratings." Looks at TV ratings. Ratings went DOWN over JJs run as champ, not up. NASCAR got less exposure during his run then anyother time. I think i'm losing it. i think i'm losing my mind. -_- 199. murb posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bruton Smith is one of those tools who tries as hard as he can to turn Nascar into a stick and ball sport. Yeah, he put Bristol back to the way it was (Hopefully. If it is screwed up more than before then I wouldn't be surprised.) But what else has he done lately? A few years ago, remember when he tried to tear down Charlotte Motor Speedway just to put his drag strip there? And of course, there is the infamous date swap where he gave this piece of junk one of Atlanta's dates. Not to mention screwing up Las Vegas. Pretty soon, he'll tear up New Hampshire too and turn it into another cookie cutter. And I'm sure Atlanta will be repaved shortly. So, I think I speak for everyone on racing-reference (all the sane people anyway) when I say this: Bruton, you can kiss our asses!!!! 200. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok, I wasn't far off. He had 3 wins heading into the first night Spring race at Richmond (I guess they finally decided against fighting snow and 30 degree temps in February) and was actually leading the points despite some inconsistent finishes. The wreck dropped him to 3rd. His next two races were 2nd and 3rd, then he went on his epic 7 of 9 streak, followed by 3 runner ups, a 5th at Charlotte, then won 3 of the last 4 races with the other being the "bad" race they had at the rain shortened Phoenix race where they finished 7th. Jeff just wasn't on the wheel that day lol. Anyways the Old (or should I say Young) Jeff Gordon would use the RCR BS as motivation and destroy the field as a result. 201. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, part of the problem with Donnie Allison after the 1979 Daytona 500 was that he never emotionally recovered after that. He was fully capable of running with the leaders, as the race about six weeks later at Darlington showed. And let's also not forget that after David Pearson's issue at that same Darlington race, that except for when he replaced Allison not long after the 1980 Daytona 500, he couldn't get a good ride, either. Another reason why neither Donnie or Pearson could get a good ride was that neither wanted to run the full season. In fact, Donnie never ran the full season in his career. The top teams, beginning around 1980, wanted to run the full season, except for the Wood Brothers, who didn't join that party until 1985. In fact, that's why Cale Yarborough left both Junior Johnson (in 1980) and later M.C. Anderson (in 1982). But he got lucky when he found a ride in Harry Ranier's car, because they didn't care about running the full season then, either. Also, the thing at Hendrick where his teams are concerned around Chase time is that Hendrick doesn't work against his other teams, he just doesn't put that much effort into them, and instead puts all his resources into the #48 team, because that's the only one that can win championships. When it comes down to those final few races, Hendrick Motorsports goes into what I call "Chase mode", and does everything he can to aid the #48 team, often times at the expense of the other Hendrick teams. That's another reason Gordon floundered in the Chase last year, when he was almost everyone's favorite entering the Chase. And while Stewart-Haas Racing gets most of their stuff from Hendrick Motorsports, they're not actually part of the HMS organization when they hit the track, so they're not affected by what happens over there. In fact, when it became obvious that Johnson wasn't going to win the title, all the focus at HMS went to SHR's #14 car, which is why he was so dominant in those final five races. Does anyone else really think Stewart would have done as well as he did in those final races if Johnson had a chance at the title? Nothing is ever taken from the SHR teams from Hendrick at Chase time, but when it became obvious that no HMS team would win the title, they wanted to make sure that Stewart would have every opportunity to win the title, especially since he had Hendrick equipment. And for Brad Keselowski's turnaround at Penske last year, which has continued into this year, he has one man to thank, and that's Kurt Busch. If not for his nearly constant over-the-radio tirades about the quality of the Penske equipment, they would never have gotten it fixed, and Penske might still be hopelessly behind, so Keselowski can thank Kurt Busch for his success over the last 12 months. 202. murb posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I just recently watched the 1998 Sonoma race on Youtube, and Mayfield was the points leader. So you are right on that. But I'm not sure about the top five streak. Like I said earlier, I think Gordon still has a shot at the wild card. Daytona, Indy, Pocono, Watkins Glen, and Atlanta are five of his best race tracks. And as long as Gustafson or bad luck doesn't mess it up, he has a good shot at winning all of those races. 203. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the incident where Gordon got spun out by Rusty at Richmond in 1998 was one of two that galvanized that team that year. The other happened shortly after that when Gordon ran out of gas on the last lap of the All-Star Race. That seemed to get the team fired up more than getting wrecked by Rusty did, because that was the result of a poor decision. 204. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, he has no shot to win if he doesn't have a car fast enough to lead, and at all the tracks after Loudon and before Bristol, if forms holds true, he won't have a car fast enough. He's not been very good at Daytona for a number of years (excepting the Firecracker in 2010), and he's been even worse at Watkins Glen since his spin out in 2007, and his cars this year just aren't fast enough at tracks like Pocono and Indianapolis. Again, if he had the speed he had last year, it would be a different story. His only chance is if everyone else got off their game preparing for the Chase (which is how he caught fire during the summer months last year), or if he can sneak into the top 10 in points without a win, which seems doubtful, especially considering the race-wide gap between 10th and 11th in points. 205. Red posted: 07.01.2012 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It is all about the $$, Red, $$." Nico, I understand it's all about money, but that doesn't explain why a #48 championship would bring more revenue than any of HMS' other teams. If anything, I'd think it'd be the opposite. Junior and Jeff have larger fanbases than Jimmie, so either of them winning a title would be a merchandise selling bonanza. Plus, both of them are crossover celebrities, so HMS and their sponsors would gain extra recognition from people outside the NASCAR world. Even Kasey winning a championship would be better, because his team has a new sponsor and I'm sure Rick would love to reward Farmers with a championship to help build a long term relationship. Oh, and by referring to Jimmie as "hack", your opinions lose credibility, and make you sound like a biased hater with an agenda. cjs, I just don't agree that Jeff and the #24 team are so mentally weak that one controversial race could derail their entire program for an extended period of time. I'm with DSFF, that if anything Jeff would probably use that type of event as motivation to kick ass going forward, as he has in the past. I apologize for going off on you in my last post; I didn't need to be so harsh. Just in general I'm weary of fans acting as armchair psychologists, because it's nothing more than speculation. It's perilous to evaluate an athlete's psychological makeup from afar, since we don't know these guys personally and really have no idea what's going in their private lives, much less what's going on in their heads. I realize it can be fun to pick apart an athlete's psyche, because after all they are getting paid millions of dollars to play sports, and we as fans hold them to very high standards. But lets try to remember that we really don't know what's going on in these guys' heads, and not falsely frame our guesses as facts. I don't think there was any controversy over Tony winning the championship last year. And even if there was, it had NOTHING to do with him being 40. Nico, sometimes I wonder if you're even watching the same races as everybody else. 206. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, maybe Jeff is (or was) capable of using what happened at Richmond and use that type of event to provide motivation and win races, but maybe his team isn't up to that level, especially with a crew chief that can't call a race correctly if his life depended on it. In fact, Gordon had a real chance to win at Loudon two weeks after the Richmond debacle, as he led the most laps, but his crew chief, as usual, screwed that up with more bad fuel mileage strategy. Even so, Gordon rallied for a top five finish. That was probably the last nail in their coffin last year, as they were rarely competitve after that. 207. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.01.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, it is all right to disagree. Just get the heroin out of your system before doing so. No, seriously, the media made a big stink about Tony and Jeff being 40 as if it made them undeserving of being in racing anymore. 208. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 07.01.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Some people point on this site point MWR improvement to Clint, but Scott Miller did play a role in improvement of MWR." Word. Scott Miller helped the MWR engineering IMMENSELY, and while Clint Bowyer is a really good driver, the addition of Brian Pattie as well helped them get those cars set up right. Truex towards the end of 2011 became a weekly top 10 threat, and it continued into this year. 209. ch posted: 07.01.2012 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @195: I thought so. 210. Red posted: 07.01.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No, seriously, the media made a big stink about Tony and Jeff being 40 as if it made them undeserving of being in racing anymore." Which media members were saying that? Whoever it was obviously has no concept of NASCAR history, in which lots of guys have been competitive in their 40's. I could see this debate in Formula 1, where 35 is considered over-the-hill, but not in NASCAR. Lol I'll try not to shoot any more heroin :) 211. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly Red. Mark Martin nearly won earlier this year at Pocono at age 53, and nearly half of Harry Gant's 18 Cup victories (eight of them, to be exact) came after his 50th birthday, including four straight in the fall of 1991 at the age of 51. And let's not forget that Mark Martin finished second in the championship and won five times at the age of 50 in 2009, and that Dale Earnhardt, Sr. finished second in points in 2000 at age 49. And Morgan Shepherd's best years, which were with the Wood Brothers from 1992-'95, also came after his 50th birthday. By the way, those were also the Wood Brothers' best years since Neil Bonnett's first stint with the team from 1979-'82, when Bonnett won nine races, including the Firecracker 400 in 1979, the Talladega 500 in 1980 (the Woods' only win in that race, though they won the spring race at Talladega four years in a row), the Southern 500 in 1981, and the World 600 in 1982. 212. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.01.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mostly from NASCAR itself, who saw to it that every time Jeff or Tony got mentioned last year, that the age was also mentioned. ESPN, FOX, TNT, SPEED- they all were guilty of it. Personally, I think the media outlets would be satisfied until all 43 cars are driven a whole flock of 19-year old female Tiger Woods's: aka a mixture of white, black, and everything else. Heck, David Newton (aka King ReTard) at ESPN wrote an article saying the greatest day in the history of motorsports would be an NNS front row of Darrell Wallace and Danica Patrick. I almost puked on my laptop (in case no one can tell, propaganda articles in racing bring my laptop much harm: vomit, cracked screens, etc.). At the very least he could have used a talented female NNS driver: aka Johanna Long. I don't want to see a driver out there unless they're talented. Likewise, we don't need people like Danica Patrick getting everything handed to them because they're a minority. Perhaps things have been twisted, but I would like a sports world where you are judged on your proven stats, not your looks. The media sucks big time. But then again, we all know that. The proof is in the Waltrips. Give credit where credit is due: Michael Waltrip took the last step this offseason; they are now a contender just like any other team. 213. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.01.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yeah, he put Bristol back to the way it was (Hopefully. If it is screwed up more than before then I wouldn't be surprised.) But what else has he done lately?" He removed the top groove but left the rest the same. Jeff Burton said after doing a tire test "it'll be alittle more of a traffic jam but we will still have some place to race without dumping the guy in front of you. We can still race without hitting anyone if you we want too." Basically, it is the new BMS just minus the top groove. "And I'm sure Atlanta will be repaved shortly." Gonna happen with in the next 5 years. 214. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.01.2012 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually cjs, you may have a point about the team not being able to mentally rebound. Obviously with Evernham, that 24 team had a definite edge to them, an attitude of using adversity as motivation that his former employee, Chad Knaus, took to the 48 team and has been a big part of their success. Another good example is Earnhardt's teams. In 1990, the fact they were able to actually pick themselves off the floor and go to anymore races that year after the absolute brutality they suffered in the Daytona 500, let alone win 9 races (of just 29) and the championship says a lot. Actually, with his luck in the 500, you could say that about all of his titles lol. Another good example for Dale is 1993. They had a huge points lead by mid summer, but then Rusty Wallace, somebody who just got a deserving first ballot HOF entry, started coming on like hell. He finished 2nd at Martinsville while the 3 team had a rare mechanical failure, then were running Top 5 at Dover when Rusty, 2 laps down from a flat tire, caused a huge pile up on a restart. They finished mid 20s while Rusty came back to win. Suddenly their lead was only about 80. But they kept churning out solid finishes while Rusty just kept winning (10 races total). They could have just given in to the incredible force of nature that was the 2 team. Examples of teams doing this in the past are plenty. It happened to Bobby Allison and his teams in 2 consecutive years to Darrell ('81 and '82), Darrell himself to Richard in '79, Carl last year to Tony, Gordon to JJ in '07, Mark to Dale in '90, JJ in '05 to Tony, etc. But they didn't and when Rusty had trouble at Phoenix, all Dale had to do was be conservative and ride around at the finale in Atlanta. Of course, since he was Dale Earnhardt, he wrecked his primary car in practice and was 3 wide on the 2nd lap of the race itself. Examples of teams holding off a charging team (without a HUGE lead with 4 or less races left) are much shorter. KuBu in the '04 cha$e as JJ caught fire. JJ himself in '08 as Carl was coming. Dale in '80 as the tough-as-they-get Cale breathed down his neck, Dale in '86 with Darrell and Tim picking it up late, and that is about it. One other example in a year that I keep harping on: Brad in 2010. After 3 bad races to start the year, Brad was running well into the Top 10, around 6th with only a few laps left despite hitting the wall earlier. This was back when Brad would hit the wall, nowadays he just speeds on pit road (sorry, until he can go at least 8-10 straight weeks without screwing up on pit road, I'm gonna keep picking on his pitting just like I did with June). But Carl, who cut down 3 lanes across his nose earlier and was spun out by Brad in an NWide race a year earlier (with Brad apologizing publically), turned him and sent him in a wicked flip and caused him to finish in the 30s. For the rest of the season, 32 races, they NEVER ran that far up in a race without pit strategy or a rare good starting spot (Loudon). I wonder if that took it out of that team's sails. Compare that to this weekend, now that it is Paul Wolfe's team. They thrived on the adversity. So maybe it is an overall team dynamic that determines things like that. Unless your driver is Dale. 215. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, when you gave examples of fading points leaders holding off those charging from behind, you forgot Jeff Gordon, both in 1995 and '97. And you also mentioned Rusty in 1989. Actually, if not for that incident with Stan Barrett, Rusty would have clinched at Phoenix, but instead had to go to Atlanta needng only to finish 18th or better to wrap up the title, and he had bad luck in that race, almost from the word go, as he had multiple flat tires. Dale dominated the race, while Rusty finished 15th, good enough for the title by 12 points over Earnhardt. Of course, Rusty never really got to celebrate that championship because Grant Adcox was killed in that very race. 216. Spen posted: 07.01.2012 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: Don't forget Bill holding off a charging Rusty at the end of '88. 217. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.01.2012 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1988 is a good example that I forgot. And I wouldn't call what Jeff did in '95 and '97 as "holding off hard chargers" as much as "being saved by the bell". Had those seasons been 2 or 3 races longer he might have lost those like he lost '96. 218. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And those other seasons mentioned weren't, DSFF? I think in each of those cases, the driver that won the championship may have been "saved by the bell". 219. Spen posted: 07.01.2012 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The difference is that the other examples are of a clearly better team gaining ground at the end of the year, while '95 and '97 were examples of the best team shooting themselves in the foot at the end. 220. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Possibly Spen, but the results and facts are all the same. That's what I was getting at. But you and DSFF make good points, as usual. 221. LordLowe posted: 07.01.2012 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Off course I'm not going to kill them josh I was saying that just to get some attention. I wouldn't kill them I would want to see them get overthrown from their positions of power but not killed. those two dummies are not worth spending the rest of my life in jail. 222. LordLowe posted: 07.01.2012 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This season has pushed me to the brink of insanity also I think I might have worn out my welcome on this comment board. 223. cjs3872 posted: 07.01.2012 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've said this before. Go back to 90-100-mile long fuel runs and I'll guarantee more action because drivers will have to conserve their tires, or they'll crash due to blown tires. Shorter fuel runs are what's leading to these excessively long green flag runs because at the moment that the tires start to give up, the cars have to pit for fuel, so they can get the tires off. After all, how many times in years past did we see someone crash just as a round of pit stops were to begin because he ran his tires too hard? But if you go back to longer fuel runs, the drivers will actually have to start using their brains, and you'll see the smarter drivers run closer to the front more often, and the ones that go all-out all the time suffer because of it. When they changed the grade of fuel a few years ago, they went to a fuel that doesn't get the mileage, which results in shorter fuel runs. What NASCAR should have done at that time is to go to a 20-gallon fuel cell to increase the distance between pit stops back to the 90-100 mile mark, which would have forced the drivers to actually think about how hard to run the cars because running them too hard would put excessive wear on their tires. That's what makes the races at Atlanta so interesting. You don't have to have brute speed to win there, but rather the best handling car that is the easiest on tires on a long fuel run, as well as an intelligent driver that knows that he can't run as hard as he can the entire fuel run because he would never be able to go a full fuel stop on his tires if he did go all-out, and the same was true about Darlington before that track was forced to be repaved after the 2007 race there because the track had been coming apart in turns one and two there for a number of years (at least back to 2002). 224. Cooper posted: 07.01.2012 - 11:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't want to cause a jinx, but Dale Earnhardt Jr. has finished 18 consecutive Sprint Cup races on the lead lap. He is 3 races short of tying Jeff Gordon for the all time record at 21. That was set from June '98 to Feb '99. This would be very impressive and I hope he can pull it off. The complete list, found at Jayski is below: Consecutive Races Finished on Lead Lap: 1) Jeff Gordon, 21 races, from June 14, 1998 thru Feb 14, 1999 2) Jimmie Johnson, 20, April 2, 2006 thru Sept 9, 2006 3) Matt Kenseth, 19, Oct 14, 2006 thru June 17, 2007 4) Jeff Burton, 18, Charlotte, Oct 13, 2007 thru Charlotte, May 25, 2008 Dale Earnhardt Jr., 18, Homestead, Nov 20, 2011 thru current. 5) Tony Stewart, 17, Martinsville, March 29, 2009 thru Michigan, August 16, 2009 Rusty Wallace, 17, May 29, 2005 thru Sept 25, 2005 Matt Kenseth 17, May 5, 2006 thru Sept 24, 2006 6) Jeff Gordon, 16, Michigan, June 13, 2010 thru Oct 10, 2010 Jamie McMurray, 16, August 8, 2004 thru Nov 21, 2004 Denny Hamlin, 16, May 6, 2006 thru Sept 9, 2006 Carl Edwards, 16, Bristol, August 27, 2011 thru Las Vegas, March 11, 2012 7) Rusty Wallace, 15, June 20, 1993 thru Oct 24, 1993 Jeff Gordon, 15, June 11, 1995 thru Oct 1, 1995 Dale Jarrett, 15, April 30, 2000 thru Sept 03, 2000 Kyle Busch, 15, Pocono, June 10, 2007 thru Sept 23, 2007 Ryan Newman, 15, Kansas, June 5, 2011 thru Sept 25, 2011 Just something to keep an eye on at Daytona and the weeks following. 225. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.02.2012 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Definitely with any season that isn't a complete blowout you never know what would happen with a few more races. But in 1995 Jeff led Dale by 304 points with just 4 races left. The final margain was 34. I know there is definitely an element of going into protect mode with a lead like that, but losing over 250 points? And in 1997, after Jeff's 10th victory, he led Mark by 139 points and DJ by 188. After Charlotte, with just 4 races left, he led Mark by 125 and DJ by 197. The final margain was 14 (!!!) over DJ and 29 over Mark. I'm just saying. Probably the closest Dale had to a "saved by the bell" title was 1980 cause Cale was coming! Of course Dale didn't exactly stink it up. His last 5 races were 1st, 1st, 18th, 3rd, and 5th. His bad run at Rockingham which Cale won was the turd in the punchbowl. It allowed his 115 poinnt lead with just 3 races left to fall to 19 at season's end. Of course the other "saved by the bell" Earnhardt title was 1991, only is wasn't Dale, but us fans that were saved when that points "battle" mercifully ended. Cooper, what is most impressive about that list is that Jeff got all his before the "lucky dog, wave around, and debris cautions" era unlike everyone below him. LordLowe, you can't leave. Some of your off the cuff comments and questions are hilarious. 226. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.02.2012 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A big shout out to Erica Enders. She won her first Pro Stock event. She is the one who beat Kurt Busch in his foray into drag racing so I automatically became a fan of her's right then. Now she has won an entire event. Hell yeah! 227. cjs3872 posted: 07.02.2012 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper, the amazing thing about Gordon's run of lead lap finishes (the highest of three such streaks of his listed) was that 10 or 11 of them were wins and all but one (1998-Phoenix) were top five finishes. Of the others you listed, only three were in the pre-free pass era, and those were the 15-race streaks of Rusty Wallace in 1993, Gordon in 1995, and Dale Jarrett in 2000, and Jarrett did not actually win any of those races. Actually, quite of number of those streaks were earned conservatively, looking at some of the drivers mentioned, and quite a number of those streaks did not include a single victory, including those put together by Jarrett, Gordon (in 2010), Carl Edwards, Rusty Wallace (in 2005), Jamie McMurray, and even Kyle Busch. Looking at your list, it's also interesting that Matt Kenseth once finished 37 out of 40 races on the lead lap from May 2006-June 2007. Now certainly the free pass rule helped. In fact in that 40-race stretch, he completed all but four laps. 228. Spen posted: 07.02.2012 - 2:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another good example of holding off a stronger team would be 1999. Jarrett was 320 points up on Bobby Labonte with ten races to go. A sizeable lead, but as Alan Kulwicki proved, not totally unsurmountable with the right amount of luck. Bobby went on a tear in those last ten races. He finished no worse than eighth in any race, and had four races where he led over 100 laps. For a guy who only lead 100 or more laps ten times in his career, that's pretty dominant. But Jarrett hardly blinked at all. He only finished outside the top ten once, and even that was an 18th. His lead over Bobby shrank to 201, but that hardly made any difference. 229. LordLowe posted: 07.02.2012 - 6:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Before she retired from funny car racing I think that Ashley Force Hood would have been the perfect Anti-Danica. 230. Baker posted: 07.02.2012 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 129 commercials and 125 minutes of actual race coverage. Even at one minute per commercial that's more commercial time than race time. One word...pathetic! 231. Daniel posted: 07.02.2012 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Daytona entry list: -Trevor Bayne in the #21 -Robert Richardson Jr. in the #23 -Bill Elliott in the #50 -Michael Waltrip in the #55 Looks like 3, maybe 4 non-S&P's outside the top-35. Bayne and Elliott are definitely attempting the full distance, Richardson Jr. probably is as well as that team attempted the full race at Talladega. Possibly J.J. Yeley in the #49 as well as they've been a mix of doing both. 232. murb posted: 07.02.2012 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, we have to suffer through another week of MW in the 55? Wonder how many guys he will spin in tandem drafting... 233. cjs3872 posted: 07.02.2012 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, we know that Bill Elliott is guaranteed a spot in the Firecracker 400 because of his 1988 series championship. He has the champion's provisional if his car isn't fast enough, and if it rains out practice and qualifying, his status as a past champion also gets him in that way. Remember that Terry Labonte is in an exempt car for this race, so he doesn't have to worry about Labonte bumping him out of the race. That was a smart move by Steve Turner, putting in a past champion for his team's Cup debut. Elliott won't be a factor in the race, but at least his appearance will put the #50 car in the race. But Daniel, Richardson and Yeley have to qualify for the race, and in the first couple of months of this season, the Daytona 500 was the one race that Yeley failed to qualify for. And the #49 car has ben having problems qualifying in recent races. Bayne also has to qualify, but not only should he be able to easily qualify, but he could actually be a threat for the pole, if the #21's past qualifying efforts for plate races the last three years are any indication, unless there's a problem that's currently unforeseen. And if qualifying is washed out, which is always a possibility for this race due to he volatile weather in Florida this time of year, Bayne would also get in, due to his Daytona 500 win from a year ago, as after past champions, race winners from this year or last would get in. 234. cjs3872 posted: 07.02.2012 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well murb, unlike last week, when he was predictably a non-factor, Waltrip will almost certainly be a factor at some point, as he has always contended at the plate tracks, no matter what car he's been in. After all, he nearly won the Daytona 500 in 1992 for Bahari Racing, and finished in the top 5 in the 1999 Daytona for Jim Mattei Motorsports, so we'll probably see Waltrip, the 2002 Firecracker 400 winner, at or near the front at some point. 235. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.02.2012 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've said this before. Go back to 90-100-mile long fuel runs and I'll guarantee more action because drivers will have to conserve their tires, or they'll crash due to blown tires." As long as Goodyear continues to bring rock hard tires, it doesn't matter how long a fuel run is. That tires still will not wear out. Goodyear needs to grow (and maybe NASCAR should as well) a set and bring tires that wear out. "What NASCAR should have done at that time is to go to a 20-gallon fuel cell to increase the distance between pit stops back to the 90-100 mile mark, which would have forced the drivers to actually think about how hard to run the cars because running them too hard would put excessive wear on their tires." Bring rock hard tires negates any "advantage" that a largers fuel cell would have. 236. 10andJoe posted: 07.02.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >129 commercials and 125 minutes of actual race coverage. Even at one minute per commercial that's more commercial time than race time. Er, no, sorry, but that's not the case. Total minutes of race broadcast: 183 Minutes of race broadcast: 125 Minutes of traditional commercials (not split-screen): 58 Minutes of 'Side-by-Side' commercials (split-screen): 0 237. 10andJoe posted: 07.02.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why is Mike Bliss in the #98 instead of McDowell? 238. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.02.2012 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wow, we have to suffer through another week of MW in the 55? Wonder how many guys he will spin in tandem drafting..." I doubt they will be doing anything of the sort unless NASCAR opens the cooling rules so that they can tandem draft (alittle atleast because all the time is BORING AS HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................not) and not have to worry about blowing up like they did at Talladega even when they do not want to tandem draft. Note to NASCAR, It is hot and humid in Florida in July. Doing something. 239. murb posted: 07.02.2012 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, hopefully there won't be much tandem stuff going on. But if there is, then I fully expect Mikey to cause some type of trouble with it, lol I really hope this new car next year brings about something new for the plate races. Personally, I would love to see the old 2001-2003 package back. But I doubt that's ever going to happen again. 240. MStall41 posted: 07.02.2012 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They opened up the cooling rules for the Firecracker 400. They increased the pop off valve pressure capacity from 28 psi to 32 psi. That ought to be just subtle enough to alleivate the cooling issues without bringing back tandems. 241. cjs3872 posted: 07.02.2012 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 195 Subaru WRX STi, the problem with bringing softer tires is that the cars are going so fast now, that the tires will never last if they're not the hardest compound in the high-speed tracks. That lesson was learned in 2004-'05 at Charlotte. That's also why they went to the 13.5 gallon fuel cells here in 2006-'07. Now I can see going to softer tires on the tracks where they're not going quite as fast, but at places like Charlotte, Michigan, California, etc., where 200 MPH straightaway speeds are attained, they have to bring a harder tire, simply because softer tires simply can not stand that kind of speed for any period of time. But when the tires begin to show wear is about the 65-70 mile mark on a fuel run, and at that time, the cars now have to start pitting for fuel, but if they have to go 90-100 miles, the drivers will have to start conserving their tires to make them last that long. And murb, they do not need to go back to the 1997-2003 restrictor plate package, because most of those races were "follow the leader" parades, except for 2001, when they ran the wicker, which I think they should run on all the tracks 1.5 miles and up, except for the plate tracks. If you remember, once a driver got out front, it was literaly impossible to close in, because the draft actually worked in reverse. There was even a snippet by Benny Parsons on exactly why during th 2002 Daytona 500. Remember when the pack caught Shawna Robinson in that race? She was running 3-5 MPH slower than the leaders, but the leaders could not make any moves on her until she ran out of fuel, because being behind her actually robbed the trailing cars of horsepower. 242. Cooper posted: 07.02.2012 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "241. cjs3872 posted: 07.02.12 - 8:17 pm" I do remember that race. They were in the middle of green flag stops I believe and Sterling, who was leading that race got stuck behind Shawna and couldn't pull out and pass her. This was surprising to say the least because the '02 draft package wasn't that bad.... 243. cjs3872 posted: 07.02.2012 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No it was not surprising, because the guys immediately trailing the leader suffered a loss of horsepower because the engines were actually being robbed of horsepower because of the airflow. Not long after that, Benny Parsons went into detail as to why that was happening. It was called "negative air pressure". In effect, that caused the draft to work in reverse. Instead of aiding the trailing cars, which the draft is supposed to do, it was actually hindering them, hence the follow the leader racing you had then. It's not that the trailing cars didn't want to make a move, but rather because they couldn't. In fact, Parsons said before the last restart that if Ward Burton got a good restart, that those behind him couldn't get to his bumper, and that's exactly what happened. 244. Dave#38Fan posted: 07.02.2012 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael McDowell's father-in-law passed away late last week, the funeral is this weekend so he is going to go be with his family and will not race this weekend. mike bliss will park the #98 this week. 245. cjs3872 posted: 07.02.2012 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is assuming Bliss qualifies for the race, Dave#38Fan. Bliss is one of nine drivers that have to qualify on time, eight if you count Bill Elliott, who's in a non-exempt car, but guaranteed to make the race due to his status as a past champion. Actually, the 44 car entry list with six or seven S&Ps is quite pitiful for a race at Daytona. There should be at least 50 cars trying to qualify for a race of this caliber. Now there would be 45 if not for the death in Michael McDowell's family. what probably happened is that Phil Parsons struck some kind of deal with the Tri-Star Motorsports #19 car, which he once drove (in the 1995 Daytona 500) to let Bliss drive his car while McDowell was off attending the funeral. 246. Spen posted: 07.03.2012 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The #98 was good enough to make the field for the 500, so Bliss should have no problem beating Yeley. 247. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2012 - 1:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Spen, that was because McDowell raced his way in through the qualifying races (and had help from Trevor Bayne, a friend and fellow Ford driver in doing so). Starting 21st (of 25) in his qualifying race, McDowell would not have gotten in on speed, and Bliss will have to qualify the #98 in on speed this time. 248. Spen posted: 07.03.2012 - 1:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But that was out of 50 cars. With only 44, there's not too much to worry about. 249. LordLowe posted: 07.03.2012 - 7:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Which is more likely to happen this year. Gordon making the chase for the championship or CJS doing a backflip. 250. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2012 - 8:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon making the Chase, LordLowe, because despite what everyone else seems to think, he could still make it on points, even if he doesn't win. For instance, he could easily climb to 14th in two races with a good, solid runs, and up to 12th in a within a couple more races. And if something happens ahead of him, he could close in on 10th. But he has to finish between fourth and seventh in every race to have any chance of catching up to tenth position in points, since his car doesn't seem to have the speed to win, especially on the tracks coming up after Loudon. 251. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.2012 - 9:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ****.... Guys, there has been a terrible crash at a Formula 1 test, involving Marussia test driver Maria de Villota. She had completed a test session at the Duxford Airfield in Cambridgeshire, UK, and had re-entered the garage area when the car suddenly accelerated into the back of a parked truck. Formula 1 cars are fitted with an anti-stall device that sharply increase throttle percentage when the ECU senses that the car is about to stall and witness accounts seem to suggest that this system activated whilst the car was in gear, causing the impact. Her injuries are said to be life threatening. My thoughts are with her and her family, wishing for a safe and full recovery. 252. Dave#38Fan posted: 07.03.2012 - 9:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) tristar motorsports does not run the #19 in cup, it's humphrey smith racing, and they were not planning to run daytona anyway. some of the smaller teams don't have all the parts required to run superspeedway races, the #19, #74, and #95 did not attempt talladega earlier this year. 253. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.03.2012 - 9:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, let's make predictions, but not rule out anything. Gordo could have a miracle turnaround. I have been tracking Maria's track through the ranks for years, and thought (mainly on gender) she was going to some F1 races someday. Wish the best for her and praying (yes, I am not a heathen). 254. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2012 - 11:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, Gordon may not need a miracle turnaround to get into the top ten in points. In fact, he could be as high as 12th-14th in 2-4 races (he's only 10 points behind the three drivers tied for 14th and another 14 behind Paul Menard, who's 13th), and from there, he could just nibble away at the drivers battling for tenth in points. And with his vast experience, he could make it. Remember that Matt Kenseth was in just as bad of shape in 2005 and made it, so it can be done. 255. 10andJoe posted: 07.03.2012 - 11:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) M535i - crap. Prayers in her direction. Why that device wouldn't be set not to activate when transmission=/=neutral is beyond me... >tristar motorsports does not run the #19 in cup, it's humphrey smith racing Po-tay-to, po-tot-oh. 256. ch posted: 07.03.2012 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, it is tristar's driver, crew chief, number, number font from last year, and all the cars are out of the tristar shop. Mark Smith (Humphrey SMITH racing) is the owner of tristar. 257. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.03.2012 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Guys, there has been a terrible crash at a Formula 1 test, involving Marussia test driver Maria de Villota. She had completed a test session at the Duxford Airfield in Cambridgeshire, UK, and had re-entered the garage area when the car suddenly accelerated into the back of a parked truck. Formula 1 cars are fitted with an anti-stall device that sharply increase throttle percentage when the ECU senses that the car is about to stall and witness accounts seem to suggest that this system activated whilst the car was in gear, causing the impact. Her injuries are said to be life threatening." Prayers out to her and her family. I don't like F1 or anyother OW racing series anymore but this ia plea from a RACE fan, MAKE YOUR CARS SAFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 258. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.03.2012 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The shame of the safety innovations of the Indy Cars we are currently seeing were helped be developed by Dan Wheldon who took a big part in testing and helping design them before being tragically killed in one of the old cars. I know the improvement of safety produced by them is not conclusive yet, but at least Dan took a lot of time to help advance safety. On the other hand, the guy in NASCAR who is credited with their tremendous advancments in safety cause they all came in the wake of his fatal wreck, Dale Earnhardt, famously shunned all safety innovation including the HANS device which he called "that damn noose" which would have saved his life in that wreck along with some seat belts not left over from 1987. Although he did have good things to say about soft walls after backing into a styrofoam block during his annual unprovoked spin at Watkins Glen in 2000. But something tells me if they told him "ok Dale, we have made the walls much safer, but we had to take away 2 feet of racing surface including at Darlington" he would not be happy. 259. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.03.2012 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, when you considered who Dale was as a person, there are times I wondered if God took so that he wouldn't be around for today's NASCAR. 260. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2012 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, tragedy unfortunately is usually what increaese the focus on safety in race. Sad but true. This goes all the way back to the depression when, after five people were killed in the 1933 Indianapolis 500, changes were made, includig limits on the amount fuel and oil those cars could carry, the installation of a caution light system, and most notably, the limiting of the field to 33 cars for 1934. When the LeMans catastrophe took place in 1955, Indy again took the lead on safety by being the first track to install a pit wall that separated the track from the pits, which was done in time for the 1957 Indianapolis 500. When the tragedies in 1964 occurred, all parties, from the sanctioning bodies, teams, and even tire companies got into the act to help save drivers' lives. For instance, the creation of the fuel cell was greatly enhanced by the efforts of both Goodyear and Firestone. The sanctioning bodies then created rules regarding fuel and how much a car could carry. Then in 1973, the tragedies at Indy forced a rule mandating much smaller fuel cells. NASCAR was forced to usher in the modern restrictor plate era in 1988 after a series of crashes in the 1980s at over 200 MPH in which cars got airborne, by far the most serious of which was Bobby Allison's crash at the 1987 Winston 500. Allison's car hit the catchfencing and was struck by Phil Parsons while stopped. Others involved included racing legends Richard Petty, Cale Yarborough, and Darrell Waltrip, who suffered a broken windshield, which was allowed to be replaced while the race was stopped. In 1990, a rash of pit road disasters forced NASCAR to eventualy adopt a pit road speed limit. CART, who sanctioned IndyCar racing at that time, soon followed a couple of years later. Wheel tethers were added following the diastrous incidents in IndyCar races at charlotte and Michigan in 1999, where spectators were killed, and head-and-neck safety equipment was made mandatory after the deaths of four NASCAR drivers, including two in the Cup series, one of which was the legendary Dale Earnhardt, Sr., another death being fourth-generation speedster Adam Petty, took place over just nine months. d the mandated use of head-and-neck restraints was not the only thing that came out of those tragedies. Another saftey innovetion that came out of that was the creation of the SAFER barrier, another brainchild of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. So safety advances are usually made because of tragedy, or near-tragedy. It a sad commentary, but a true one. 261. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, NicoRosbergFan, not very many of the changes that have been made in the last 7-10 years would have been made had Dale, Sr. still been around, including the Chase, the wave-around, possibly the free pass, not to mention the number of highly arrogant drivers that have come into the sport the last decade (insert names, because there are a lot of them). The last part is true because, more than any person in the sport's modern history, Dale, Sr. would have put them in their place. 262. Talon64 posted: 07.03.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski picks up his 7th career Sprint Cup Series victory and series-leading 3rd win of 2012. Only Tony Stewart (7) has more Cup wins since 2011, with Keselowski's 6 wins coming over the last 41 races (.146 winning %). This is just the 2nd time that a Penske driver's had 3 or more wins in back-to-back seasons; Rusty Wallace had 10 wins in 1992 and 8 in 1993. Keselowski's .066 win % ranks him 37th all time, while his .255 top 10 % ranks him only 104th. Kasey Kahne finishes 2nd for the 16th time in his career. Kahne had 6 runner-up finishes before getting his first career Cup win, but since then he's had 12 wins compared to 10 2nd place finishes. After his career-high streak of 7 straight top 10's, Kahne had a 25.3 avg fin in the last 3 races. Denny Hamlin hasn't had a stand-alone top 10 finish in 11 races; he's had 6 top 5's, including 3 top 3's, and 5 finishes of 12th or worse (25.5 avg fin in those races). Dale Earnhardt Jr., Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson helped runner-up Kasey Kahne make it 4 HMS drivers in the top 6. Dale Jr. and Johnson each picked up their series-leading 13th top 10's of the season, while Jeff Gordon picked up just his 2nd top 5 (but 3rd straight top 10 and 4th in the last 6 races). It's Dale Jr.'s 175th career top 10 in 452 starts. Jimmie Johnson earned his 26th career Sprint Cup Series pole and first in 61 races dating back to Sept. 2010 at Dover. Matt Kenseth hasn't finished worse than 16th in the last 14 races (7 top 5's, 11 top 10's, 6.7 avg fin). Martin Truex Jr. picks up just his 3rd top 10 in the last 9 races (15.4 avg fin, versus 7.5 in the first 8 races of the year). AJ Allmendinger has back-to-back top 10's for the first time this season, after just 1 in the first 15 races of 2012. Kyle Busch has led the most laps in each of the first two Cup races at Kentucky, combining to lead 243 of 534 laps (45.5%). But last year's winner had to settle for a 10th place finish this year, his first in 5 races. Travis Kvapil finishes in the top 20 for the 3rd time this season, the 6th for BK Racing in 35 starts in 2012. 263. Talon64 posted: 07.03.2012 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's been 10 different drivers with top 5's in the first two Kentucky Cup races, since none of the top 5 finishers from 2011 repeated in 2012. That despite Kyle Busch and Brad Keselowski, the 2011 and 2012 winners, combining to lead 390 of 534 laps since they went 1-7 in 2011 and 10-1 in 2012. Keselowski, Kyle Busch, Jeff Gordon, Matt Kenseth and Jimmie Johnson are the only five to finish in the top 10 in the two races; Keselowski owns the best average finish (4.0) and has scored the most points (85). 264. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2012 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Talon64, you're a year off on Wallace's big seasons with Penske. His 10-win season was in 1993 and his 8-win season was in 1994. 265. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.03.2012 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Actually, NicoRosbergFan, not very many of the changes that have been made in the last 7-10 years would have been made had Dale, Sr. still been around, including the Chase, the wave-around, possibly the free pass," You forgot commmen template cars. Dale was against those types of cars but little known to him, cars were "common template" during the 1980's. Even during Dales time NASCAR was trying to make every car EQUAL (look, performence what else have you) it was a slow progression but it was happening. I don't think the chase would have been around in its current form, perhaps a hybrid of it or something else completely if Dale was still here. CART had the wave-around, so i agree NASCAR would have added eventually. An incident like DJs was bound to happen, so NASCAR would have done the "freeze the field and free pass" eventually as well. And the COT was coming also, weither Dale or anyone else like it or not. 266. cjs3872 posted: 07.03.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually 1995 Subaru WRX STi, the COT wasn't even a thought until well after those deaths, and would not have happened, in my opinion, had those deaths not occurred. And the wave-around was a creation of the IRL (now the IndyCar series) in 2000, though CART may also have been using it in 2001, as well. As for the common template car, I'm not sure I agree with that, either. Sure NASCAR wanted to get the cars more equal, but beginning with the '83 T-Bird, at least one car was significantly different for most of Dale's career. The exceptions being 1981-'82 and 1990-'94. Aside from that, there was always one car that was very different looking from the others, good, bad, or indifferent. What I don't think Dale would have been too happy with is all the free laps the competitors were, and are getting back. That's why he would have been against the free pass and wave-around. 267. Talon64 posted: 07.03.2012 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Actually Talon64, you're a year off on Wallace's big seasons with Penske. His 10-win season was in 1993 and his 8-win season was in 1994." Thanks, looking at Penske's Cup numbers were making my eyes go cross eyed so it's no wonder I got it wrong. http://www.racing-reference.info/owner/Roger_Penske 268. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.03.2012 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why that device wouldn't be set not to activate when transmission=/=neutral is beyond me..." An anti-stall device would only be effective when the car is in gear, as that is the only time that the car would be able to stall. I'm not 100% up to speed on how the system works in Formula 1, but I do know that in V8 Supercars, the anti-stall is driver controlled and is activated when the clutch and throttle pedals are fully depressed at the same time. The clutch being engaged means that the car doesn't accelerate under power whilst the car re-fires. In this instance, the system may have malfuntioned, because I can't see how this would be allowed to happen under normal circumstances. "I don't like F1 or anyother OW racing series anymore but this ia plea from a RACE fan, MAKE YOUR CARS SAFER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! " Unfortunately, this incident can only be described as a freak accident and I'm not sure how different car design would have made much of a difference. It's quite similar to Massa's incident, in a way. The Formula 1 car of today is incredibly safe and there has not been a fatality since 1994. All governing bodies should still strive to be vigilant and proactive in this area of our sport, but sadly, risk is an element of motor racing that we should all be aware of. It is when we become complacent and over-confident that it becomes truly dangerous. 269. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.04.2012 - 6:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The sad thing about NASCAR is that they had 3 on track fatalities before finally doing something after their biggest star died. The word "proactive" is not in their dictionary. 270. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.04.2012 - 7:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is a sad thing, DSFF. But I must give them credit, because the current NASCAR stock car is quite possibly the safest race car of today. However, having said that, I do have genuine fears because it seems to me that they have become incredibly complacent over time. NASCAR has already made plenty of changes that sacrifice safety in favour of excitement and I worry that one day they will take it too far. 271. Red posted: 07.04.2012 - 7:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) With the rampant sponsorship issues surrounding NASCAR, how does JTG-Daugherty continue to have 36 races of solid backing year after year? With a beyond washed up Bobby Labonte, the #47 is totally irrelevant and gets zero TV time. This may be a bit outlandish, but I'd say Bobby is the worst current full time driver in the Cup Series. For the life of me I cannot figure out why JTG re-signed him this year, and why his sponsors are okay with a vortex of suck riding around the track every week. 272. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.04.2012 - 8:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR lost Neil and Ricky Knotts in 1994, Adam, Kenny, and Tony in 2000, and Dale in 2001. But it actually wasn't until after Blaise Alexander died that NASCAR made the rule changes. The media tries to say it was Dale's death, but even then NASCAR didn't change. It took one more. Same with the Modifieds; both Tommy Baldwin, Sr. and John Blewett, III had to die THE EXACT SAME WAY before NASCAR made things safer over there. F1: Roland Ratzenberger dies: rule changes immediately; next day, Ayrton Senna dies: rule changes immediately Yes, DSFF, NASCAR has dragged its feet even at the risk of loss of life. Tragic, but true. 273. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.04.2012 - 10:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Correction: It was Rodney Orr in 1994, not Ricky Knotts. 274. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2012 - 10:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, NicoRosbergFan, it was Rodney Orr in 1994. Ricky Knotts was killed in a qualifying race in 1980. And Red, although Bobby Labonte is no longer competitve, I would hardly call him the worst full-time driver on the circuit. Far from it. There are drivers running the full circuit far worse than Labonte (I don't count the S&P drivers). Labonte's problems are in several layers. First, there is the factor of Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s passing. That happened in the first race during Labonte's reign as champion. Then there are the debilitating losses he suffered to Jimmie Johnson in 2004 at Darlington and 2005 in the Coca-Cola 600, the later of which got Joe Gibbs' team so mad at him that they stopped focusing on the #18 car. But since then, his problem, some of which has been self-inflicted, has been the teams he's raced for, a down-trodden Petty Enterprises team that was on it's last legs, the disaster that was Hall of Fame Racing, TRG Motorsports, and now JTG-Daugherty Racing. Those teams are not, or were not competitive, no matter who drove the car. (Sure Marcos Ambrose was competitve in the #47 car at Bristol and the road courses, but not anywhere else.) I think Labonte could be competitve if he were with a better team, though I don't think he can win. Let's not forget that it was Labonte that actually pushed Trevor Bayne to the win in last year's Daytona 500. And if Richard Childress needed a stop-gap for his #31 car until Austin Dillon arrived, if he got rid of Jeff Burton, Labonte would be a good choice, and would even be a good mentor for the Dillon brothers, much like older brother Terry was a mentor for Jeff Gordon a generation ago. After all, who among his current drivers other than Jeff Burton could be any kind of mentor for the Dillon brothers? Not Paul Menard and certainly not Kevin Harvick. I think one reason Childress is keping Burton, and maybe the only reason, is to mentor the Dillon brothers, because Burton isn't competitve any more on the track. I also think Childress is keeping Burton because he's something among his drivers that neither Harvick and Menard is, and that is a leader. 275. Red posted: 07.04.2012 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who would be worse than Bobby if they drove the #47? There are a few who might be as equally invisible, but looking down the standings I don't see anyone who would perform worse. Almirola would likely post near identical results, as he is slow but doesn't wreck a lot. You could say the same about Mears, Kvapil, Gilliland, and Blaney, as well. Ragan, Montoyta, Allmendinger, and Cassill could probably milk a little extra speed out of that car, even if they crashed more frequently. Regan Smith and Reutimann would be a definite upgrade, hell Brian Vickers would be a major upgrade. Marcos Ambrose was much faster than Bobby when he piloted the #47, and not just at road courses and Bristol. He suffered a lot of finishes in the 30's, but had the potential to run top 10 or top 15 every week. Bobby's current ceiling is 20th (and no, I'm not counting his 4th at Daytona, because anyone with a pulse can finish well at a plate race). With a competent driver, I really believe the #47 could be a solid 15th-20th place car every week with the potential to challenge for the occassional top five. As far as putting Bobby in the #31, that would be a lateral move, at best, from one declining veteran to another severly declining veteran. Neither Burton or Labonte will ever be Mark Martin and remain competitve into his 50's. Remember, Bobby has not been relevant since 2003, and that certainly isn't going to change. The hiring tactics of JTG-Daughtery are emblematic of the mindset of the current Cup garage: keep hiring retreads no matter how washed up, and avoid potential young stars like the plague. It's sad, really. There are probably 10 young guys in Nationwide and Trucks who deserve a shot, but they are denied because a corpse like Bobby Labonte is occupying one of the precious few decent rides in the Cup Series. 276. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2012 - 12:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's just it Red. I think that JTG-Daugherty want someone that doesn't crash, because that means less work for those in the shop. And if that means running slower, than so be it. And JTG-Daugherty one of the smallest teams that run the full season and run the full races. In fact, other than Furniture Row Racing and Phoenix Racing, it might be THE smallest team running the full circuit today. And Furniture Row and Phoenix get help elsewhere. As of this year, JTG-Daugherty does not get any help from any other team, as of this year. I'm not sure anyone would be competitve in that car. And having a driver like Labonte, who like his brother is one of the most conservative drivers ever to win a championship, in the car is exactly what a small team like that needs. A team like JTG-Daugherty can't afford to have a driver that crashes, and if there's one thing about the Labontes, it is that they don't crash. Terry once went through an entire season (1992) not involved in a single caution period. But again, one of the problems Bobby Labonte, and frankly most of those racing at that time, is the emotional impact of Dale Earnhardt's death, which came in the first race during Bobby's reign as series champion, the 2001 Daytona 500. That had a profound impact on virtually every top driver on the circuit then, and Bobby, who beat Earnhardt for the title in 2000, took it harder than almost everyone else, with the possible exception of Rusty Wallace. Remember that Bobby's older brother Terry had some incredible battles with Dale, Sr., and had suffered head injuries himself in 2000, resulting in him sitting out races for the only time in his career as a full-time driver. JTG-Daugherty might have the potential to run higher in the running order, but they're so small an operation that they can't afford a driver that will run hard and crash. Such a driver might run that team right out of business. In fact, if he hasn't already chosen who would drive his cars next year if he enters NASCAR, Labonte would be a perfect driver for Michael Andretti to have for his team. 277. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.04.2012 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Unfortunately, this incident can only be described as a freak accident and I'm not sure how different car design would have made much of a difference. It's quite similar to Massa's incident, in a way. The Formula 1 car of today is incredibly safe and there has not been a fatality since 1994." I find the solution to be quite simple: put something in front of the drivers face that protects them from flying debris. It isn't hard to do. I'm sorry but when Paul Dana died in 2006, i realized OW cars are very un-safe. And more drivers will continue to be killed unless they do something more. "However, having said that, I do have genuine fears because it seems to me that they have become incredibly complacent over time. NASCAR has already made plenty of changes that sacrifice safety in favour of excitement and I worry that one day they will take it too far." NASCAR is proably listening to those sicko race fans that WANT death to happen when someone crashes. I'm being serious, there are those that want that to happen. Safety is always a moving target but i feel NASCAR has hit it more then anyone else. "And if Richard Childress needed a stop-gap for his #31 car until Austin Dillon arrived, if he got rid of Jeff Burton, Labonte would be a good choice," BLab wouldn't be an upgrade. Trevor Bayne would be, Regan Smith would be, hell even Robby Gordon would be an upgrade of Bobby. 278. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.04.2012 - 12:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somewhat sad news as Marussia has confirmed that Maria de Villota has lost sight of her right eye permanently. 279. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2012 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru WRX STi, I'm not saying that Bobby Labonte would be an upgrade over Jeff Burton. What I am saying is that one major reason that Childress is keeping Jeff Burton as long as he is, considering that he's uncompetitve now, is so that Burton can mentor the Dillon brothers, especially Austin, since he'd be the first one up. And if Childress does decide to get rid of Burton, he'd be wise to bring Labonte in for that reason alone. After all, what do the most recent great champions all have in common? They were all mentored by much more experinced drivers. Jeff Gordon was mentored by Terry Labonte, Tony Stewart by Bobby Labonte, Matt Kenseth by Mark Martin, and Jimmie Johnson by Gordon. That's why I think Jack Roush is making a HUGE mistake in letting Kenseth go to make room for Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. Because Stenhouse will need someone within the Roush organization to mentor him, with Kenseth gone for next year, Stenhouse has nobody to mentor him, because it's not in the nature of Carl Edwards or Greg Biffle to act as a mentor for younger drivers. Trevor Bayne, if he sticks with Roush, would need the same thing, and he won't have a mentor within Roush's organization, either. That's why having the Wood Brothers as his team is so helpful to him, because Glen and Leonard Wood act as his mentors. Sure, Trevor Bayne and Regan Smith would be upgrades over Burton and Labonte, in terms of driving the car goes, but neither of them can be a mentor for a younger driver, and with Austin Dillon coming up to the Cup series in the next year or two, he'll need someone to mentor him, and neither Paul Menard or Kevin Harvck fit that bill. Only Burton among Childress' current drivers can be a mentor for younger drivers. There's a reason why Childress starting becoming a factor again when he hired Burton in 2004, and it wasn't just for Burton's on-track abilities, but also for his ability to be a mentor for younger drivers, such as Kevin Harvick. That's why he needs Burton as a stabilizing force for his young drivers coming up, and that's what Kenseth brought to Roush, and what Roush is going to lose next year, just when he needs it the most. And Labonte has already mentored a driver into becoming a champion, so if Childress were to replace Burton, Labonte would be the perfect choice. 280. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2012 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And NicoRosbergFan, not only has she lost the use of her right eye, if what SPEED.com says is true, she actually lost her right eye, much like what happened to Jack Roush's eye (the left, I believe) after his most recent airplane crash. That eye was replaced with a glass eye. 281. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.04.2012 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, you nailed it about Burton being a leader and Harvick and Menard not. That is what Roush Racing may miss the most about losing Kenseth. He provided a stability for their drivers. Stenhouse will make it in Cup I truly believe, but it would be much quicker if Matt were still there. Watching Ricky's post race interview after the NWide Kentucky race when he blatently screwed up in the pits, got his jackman hurt, then blamed everyone else out there for what was clearly his fault doesn't sit well. When he does that in Cup, who is gonna take the time to pull him aside and say "take the fault when you screw up"? Remember Matt's interview after Dega this year? He put every ounce of blame on himself. Or his interview after his famous Dover '04 crash that we see every single time they air anything from Dover? Roush will miss that. Yes the COT is the safest race car out there, but there is a lot of blood on the path that led to that car. A lot of unnecessary blood. And make no mistake, it all came from NASCAR cause of what happened to Dale. They lost their biggest selling card. That made them say "uh oh, what if something similar happens to Jeff or Rusty or Mark or Bill, that would be more money lost". I don't know what to make of B Lab. Maybe he used up a lifetime of luck in 2000, going 34 races and completing all but NINE laps. Maybe he never has been totally dedicated but took advantage of awesome JGR race cars (you see what Smoke did with them). Maybe he doesn't want anything to do with the pressure anymore so just shows up for the check. Obviously his two years after his championship were sub par to say the least. Hard to say what caused that. Could it have been the Earnhardt effect? Did he just wear himself out mentally in 2000? He had a mini renaissance in the first half of 2003 with no non sense CC Fatback, but took a dive in the second half of the year that quite frankly hasn't ended. He is a quiet but complex guy. 282. Eric posted: 07.04.2012 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You forgot that Burton help mentor Matt Kenseth when he was first a cup driver besides Mark. Mark and Jeff actually took Matt under their wings. Jeff helped Matt with somethings including tips for qualifying as odd as it seems since Jeff was a weaker qualifier compare to Mark. I believe it was the late Benny Parson saying about Jeff Burton helping Matt to qualify and Benny saying something to the affect Jeff shouldn't be the driver to teach Matt to qualify. It actually makes sense that Jeff played a role for Matt Kenseth as a mentor if you compare how Jeff Burton was as a driver from 1997 to 2000. Matt Kenseth as driver on the track currently is familiar to the Jeff Burton of 1997 to 2000 on the race track. Remember Jeff of 1997 to 2000 was not a great qualifier, but he found away to get a top 10, top 5, or a win. 283. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2012 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, it's true that Jeff Burton did some mentoring for Matt Kenseth, as well, but I think Martin did most of the mentoring for Kenseth. And DSFF, Labonte and Stewart won an comprable number of races while both were going good in JGR's cars, but of course, Labonte had much more experience in stock cars when he got to Cup in 1993 than Stewart had. In fact, Labonte and Stewart were the perfect tandem at that time. Stewart was more volatile (and still is), and willing to try more things, while Labonte was much more on the straight and narrow. But Labonte didn't become a title contender until Stewart got to Gibbs' Cup team in 1999, and Stewart may never have reached the heights he's gotten to when he reached them if not for Labonte's mentoring. And you're right about Stenhouse not putting blame on the right place. I saw that pit stop live on TV, and when I saw his car stpped in the pits, even from a side angle, I knew they'd have trouble changing the left side tires because he pitted too close to the wall. But not taking blame should be a BIG red flag. Sure he had to angle in because of another car, but that's no excuse for going in a little too fast and stopping too close to the wall. A little more, and his car would have hit the inner pit wall. Not only are you right about Menard and Harvick not being mentors at RCR, the same can be said about Carl Edwards and Greg Biffle at Roush. Frankly, I think that's one reason why Childress kept Elliott Sadler when he bought out KHI's Nationwide program, because Austin Dillon (and Ty down the road) needed a mentor, and Sadler, a 15-year NASCAR veteran with over 430 Cup starts, was the perfect choice. Sadler, like Trevor Bayne today, was mentored by the Wood Brothers, which may be why Bayne would not need the mentoring when and if he ever racs full-time in the Cup series for Roush, or any other top team, because of the vast experience the Wood Brothers have, which is bound to rub off on any young driver that gets in the #21 car for any length of time. 284. ch posted: 07.04.2012 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JTG keeps their sponsors for one reason, and not because of the racing. Instead their focus is on the marketing aspect. I remember Brad D. in an interview saying his goal is not to be a front runner in cup, but a solid partner for companies looking for marketing. I mean just take a walk through your neighborhood Kroger, Publix, Target or Walmart and I would bet that about 75% of them have a Bobby Labonte #47 ad in them. All of the ones I have been to in metro Atlanta have them. Sure performances would be better with a different driver, but their sponsors would probably rather have a fairly likable past championship to represent their company. 285. Red posted: 07.04.2012 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you might be on to something in regard to BLab having motivation issues. He had the shortest peak of any championship driver who didn't die in his prime, with only two legitimate tile-contending seasons (`99 and `00). He had a few other good years (`97, `98, `01, `03), but fell off a cliff very quickly after winning his championship. The Cup trophy might as well have been a fire extinguisher, because his desire has never been the same since. Now he really does seem like a guy who's just collecting a paycheck, which is kind of hard to watch. Come to think of it, his brother Terry had a similar ending to his career following his 1996 championship, putting together a few decent seasons but largely disappearing, especially from 2001 on. "I mean just take a walk through your neighborhood Kroger, Publix, Target or Walmart and I would bet that about 75% of them have a Bobby Labonte #47 ad in them." I never thought about that before, but it's true. Even out here in CO, far away from the heart of NASCAR country, there are Bobby Labonte cardboard cutouts in several of our stores, including WalMart and Kroger, as you mentioned. The Bobby/Kroger pairing kind of reminds me of Mikey's years with NAPA - more about marketing than actual racing success. 286. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.04.2012 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You are absolutely right ch, and the reality behind that is a shame. The fact is that as money becomes more and more scarce, it is a much bigger asset to be good at marketing as opposed to good at driving (see: Patrick, Danica). As somebody who fell in love with NASCAR because of the sport and competition aspect of it, this really disturbs me, but it is only gonna get worse. 287. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.04.2012 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are drivers out there with talent that are marketable. But todays sponsers choose marketiblity over talent because of the all might dollar. It isn't NASCARs fault for having sponsers choose marketibility over talent/marketiblity. NASCAR can't demand sponsers to sponser drivers (even tho i wish they could to a degree). it is a shame that some drivers get left out in the cold because of sponsers that choose someone who can get them exposure. Then the guy they left could be the next Jeff Gordon. ^ The above is just an example. 288. cjs3872 posted: 07.04.2012 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And let's not forget Red, that Terry Labonte also had a few lean years after his 1984 championship, though that may be a bit unfair since he never won more than two races in any season until he got to Hendrick Motorsports in 1994. Dale Inman left Billy Hagan after 1985, and Labonte himself left after 1986 (though he returned in 1991 for three more years), and he and Junior Johnson were never as successful as many thought they'd be. But back to Bobby Labonte's demise as a top driver. Again, I go back to Dale Earnhardt's death at the end of the 2001 Daytona 500. That was the first race after Bobby's championship, and he was one of the drivers most affected by Earnhardt's death, along with 1989 NASCAR champion Rusty Wallace. Neither driver had a really good season after that, yet each won four times in 2000 and were cnsidered top contenders for the 2001 championship entering that season. Bobby only won ftimes after that and Rusty only won twice after that, one of which came on what would have been Earnhardt's 50th birthday, April 29, 2001, at Fontana, CA. Ironically, in Rusty's final win, the 2004 spring race at Martinsville, it was Bobby that came home second. But also, those two crushing losses he suffered to Jimmie Johnson in 2004 (the last 400-mile race at Darlington) and 2005 (the crash-marred Coca-Cola 600) affected Bobby Labonte in a way that he never recovered psychologically from them. 289. Mr X posted: 07.04.2012 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR could also do a lot more to keep the cost of racing under control, as apposed to the whopping nothing they have done since about 2002. Then maybe the teams wouldn't be so sponsor reliant, when the economy eventually recovers that will to be a big help. 290. Spen posted: 07.05.2012 - 12:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby's continued sponsorship isn't a real mystery. For several years now, he's consistently placed 5th in MPD voting. It's all part of a rare advertising campaign focusing on 50+ consumers. Speaking as someone who is no longer part of the all-important "18-49" demographic, I find it very refreshing. Sure, I'd rather they spent that sponsorship money on someone competitive, like Mark Martin, but I'm just glad they haven't forgotten that we exist. There are quite a number of factors in Bobby's decline. Dale's death certainly had an impact (though I disagree with Cjs's statement that he took it harder than anyone but Rusty. Terry seems to have taken it harder, which seems natural, given that they were from the same 'rookie class'. And given that Bobby was still pretty competitive in 2001, while Terry didn't even lead a lap all year, Terry seems to have been more affected.) But in any event, that was far from the only cause. Another main reason was Gibbs' team shifting attention from Bobby's team to Tony's. The proof of this comes from the team's car setups. Throughout 2002, JGR's cars were all run with Tony's preffered setup, which was considerably looser than Bobby was comfortable with. As such, he'd spend half the race chasing the setup, and by the time they got it comfortable, he'd already be two laps down. Result: terrible year. After they'd gotten Tony his title, the team seemed to start treating Bobby well again (possibly aided by the addition of Fatback McSwain to the team), but the success was limited by JGR's overall weakness from '03-'04. He still was in a very good points posistion in the first half of '04. After McSwain left, the team fell by the wayside. And then came 2005. Basically, all the bad luck that he'd avoided in 2000 came back to bite him. Combine that with Gibbs' futile efforts to get Jason Leffler competitive, (and as Cjs mentioned, the crushing defeat at Johnson's hands in the Coke 600), and you end up with another terrible season. Another overriding factor throughout their time as teammates is the fact that Home Depot is a much larger company than Interstate Battieries, and therefore capable of writing *much* larger sponsorship checks, which with sane car owners (ie: not Brad Daugherty) generally results in better results. But whatever the reasons, at the end of 2005, Tony won the title, while Bobby didn't even sniff the top twenty all year. That's got to have a very, very negative effect on your self-confidence. Which is probably a subconsious part of why he turned down CGR for 2006. In some way, he felt like he no longer was good enough for a chase-calliber ride. So instead he goes to the corpse of Petty Enterprises. And considering that the #43 had gotten two top tens in the last three years, he did a pretty credible job. If the bad luck of 2005 hadn't followed him into '06, he might have finished the year in the top fifteen in points. Unfortunately, Todd Parrott left the team midseason, which had an overall negative impact on team morale. He still did a nice job of running consistently midpack in a car that probably should have been outside the top 25 (in particular, he seemed to develop a knack for finishing 11th a lot.) but the team's financial woes finally caught up to them. This left Bobby at another crossroads. He could have accepted RCR's offer to drive the #07. (In hindsight, 2009 would have been a terrible time to drive for Childress, but there was no way of knowing that at the time.) But instead he decided to drive the #96 for HOF racing. He managed to drag a non top-35 team back into the top thirty, and outperformed the "parent team" of Yates, which is fairly respectable considering that it was a bad year to drive a Ford. But he still got fired in favor of Erik Darnell. That had to sting. So he goes off to TRG, gives them the best results they'd ever had, and promptly gets fired. At this point a mentality of "why do I even bother trying?" has to start setting in. This only gets worse when the only way of keeping his consecutive starts streak alive is by accepting a few start-and-park rides. So fast-forward to the #47, which is run by an owner who doesn't give a damn about how good they are, and combine it with a driver who doesn't think he's any good anymore, and you've got a recipe for disaster. About the only way things are going to improve for Bobby is if he somehow manages to win a plate race. And there's one final point to consider. Cjs has a theory that it isn't so much a driver's age, it's how many starts they've had that determine how long a driver can stay competitive. I have a similar, yet slightly divergent theory. I don't think that the number 550 is a magical stopping point (Bobby for instance ceased to be a factor long before hitting that number, and Mark Martin was a factor long afterwards), but I think the number of years someone has spent racing (and not just in Cup) has a major effect. Look at someone like Dale Jarrett. He peaked as a driver at a time in life when most drivers are in a decline. He also didn't race a car until he was about 21, a far later start than most drivers. Lee Petty, who was probably the most dominant 40+ driver in history, didn't start racing until he was 35! I think that as a general rule, 30 or so years is about the maximum amount of time that someone can spend racing before it really starts wearing you down. I think that's the main reason that 35 is considered old in Formula 1. They've been racing since they were five or so, and after 30 years, they've had enough. Now how does this relate to Bobby? His dad got him into go-karts when he was six. He's now spent 43 years racing. Heck, when he won the title in 2000, he'd already been racing for 31 years. His actual lifetime racing experience was almost equal to Earnhardt's, despite being far younger. Terry even started at a much older age than Bobby. As such, Bobby has a problem that in the upcoming years, I believe we will see develop in Gordon, the Busch brothers, Logano and any other driver that started too young. Racing was the be all and end all of his life since before he could make a consious choice about it. He never really got to develop many outside interests. So at this point in his life, he's spent far too long racing to really care about winning anymore, he's too old to really think about trying anything new, and yet he's still too young to be comfortable with the idea of sitting at home doing nothing. So he still keeps coming to the track every week, because at least that keeps him busy. Oddly enough, I just had a dream about Bobby last night. He finished second to Jamie McMurray in the Southern 500. 291. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2012 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, you mentioned that the crash that killed Dale Earnhardt had a bigger impact on Terry Labonte than it had on Bobby, as Terry didn't lead a lap in 2001. Let's not forget that Terry's career was already in decline, and to make matters worse, Terry had suffered head injuries in crashes on consecutive weeks in July of 2000 (Daytona and Loudon) that caused him to miss races for the only time in his 25 years as a full-time driver. That had as much of an impact on Terry's terrible 2001 as did Earnhardt's death at the end of the Daytona 500. But also, while The Home Depot is a much larger company than Interstate Batteries, Interstate Batteries sponsored the flagship #18 car for Joe Gibbs, which is why the bad treatment that team got from 2005-'07 is puzzling, though having a bad driver like J.J. Yeley didn't help matters. But if that's true, why then has there been so little emphasis on the #20 car since 2008, the year Kyle Busch started driving the #18 car? And as for your statement about the car ower of the #47 not caring about how good they run, which car owner are you talking about? I say that because the "JTG" part of JTG-Daugherty was a big reason the Wood Brothers fell off so badly from 2005-'08 (and how Marcos Ambrose got in the #47 car), and Brad Daugherty knows very little about racing (why ESPN has him as a racing commentator boggles the mind), so which owner are you talking about, because neither of them seem to be any good. And yes, I do think that when a top-flight driver starts to get around 550 Cup starts, he begins to struggle. History tells us that, though there are exceptions, like Mark Martin, who hasn't fallen off that much as a driver since he reached that plateau, which is why I say that's a general line. Another mark where a driver starts to fall off, for some reason, is the 17-year mark. Once a driver passes his 17th season, he start to go downhill. Again, I have no idea why that is, but it's almost uncanny how that happens. Virtually all of the legends have seen a dropoff in performance after their 17th season. 292. ch posted: 07.05.2012 - 1:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @290, I just want to point out that Bobby did not get fired by TRG. He quit because he refused to S&P midway through the season. He still came back later in that season to drive some races in the #71 when there was sponsorship from TaxSlayer. 293. Red posted: 07.05.2012 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, thank you for the interesting perspective on Bobby's situation. I didn't realize he got fired from both HoFR and TRG; for some reason I thought he left those teams on his own accord. As you mentioned, he actually ran respectibly for those teams considering how shitty their equipment was. That stretch from 2009-10 probably did kill what little confidence he had left, and now he feels more comfortable in a no-pressure ride like the #47. I also think your burnout theory is dead on. Not just in racing, but in all sports, people seem to hit the proverbial wall after a certain numbers of years, as part of some combination of mental, emotional, and physical fatigue. But even if a driver can acknowledge that he's burned out, what the hell else is he going to do to fill his remaining 30-40 years on this planet? When a person constructs their entire identity around one endeavor, it almost becomes an addiction, because the void left in its absense is far too painful. That's why DW and Richard hung on for a decade past their prime, and why Brett Favre has un-retired about six different times. Many believe Junior Seau took his life because his entire identity was built around football, and without it, he felt like a nobody. As you pointed out, Bobby is probably on the cusp of entering that purgatory phase of his life, and wants to put it off for as long as possible, even if that means riding around in 28th place every week. Someone like Jeff Gordon would likely not encounter the same void after racing, because he has a lot of other things going on in his life to occupy his time, and more importantly, to maintain his identity. And unlike Bobby, Jeff is a crossover celebrity who could probably get a TV gig anytime he wanted to. It'll be interesting to see how much longer Jeff races, because the fire already seems to be dimming for him, especially now that he has a wife and kids. I predict he'll run full time through 2015, then hang it up. I'm not a Gordon fan, but it would be cool to see him win one final championship then ride off into the sunset. 294. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 2:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whatever the case, it is just so hard to believe the Bobby Labonte we see today is the same guy who never blinked in 2000 when the suddenly rejuvenated Intimidator was breathing down his neck by mid summer, and actually forced Dale into making the big mistake (first lap at Watkins Glen, Dale spent more time spinning at tha track than going straight). Similarly conservative driver Mark Martin simply came apart 10 years earlier trying to stare down Dale in a championship battle. I look at B Lab today, think back to 2000 and wonder how the hell he did it. I still say a big reason for his downfall was more the leftover mental wear and tear from 2000 than anything (although a number of other factors played into this including his horrible ride selection). I think he just never wanted to go through the mental strain of a title battle again. And that may have played a part in his ride selection. He seems perfectly content in a ride where 20th is a good day. He is like a mountain climber that climbed Everest, realized the toll it took on his body and said "I don't ever want to do that again!". So they stick to much smaller mountains. Wheras drivers like Dale and Jeff climbed Everest and said "Hell Yeah! I wanna do that again. And again and again and again (and in Dale's case, again and again and again)" bobby wanted no part of it again. As mentioned earlier, Bobby was looking pretty good by early summer in '03 and '04, but seemed to check out after that. Just my two cents though. 295. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 2:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn Red, you beat me to it lol. You can tell drivers who are mentally fatigued. Jeff seems to be that way this year due to his Wile E Coyote luck week after week after week. Dale seemed that way in '98 and '99 cause his body just wasn't healthy enough to do what it once did and that discouraged him, and after his pre 2000 surgery when he felt like himself again for the first time since his '96 Dega wreck, he was back in the hunt. Its funny, I too have never been a fan of Jeff's, but I would also like to see him win one more. In an ever changing world, and let's face it change is scary, after watching Jeff being crowned champ so many times, there would be something almost soothing about seeing a throwback Gordon title. Now if he can just quit buying all his shit from the Acme Corporation! 296. Spen posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: Mars Inc. is on the same playing field as Home Depot. They're paying good money to be competitive. Far more than Interstate Batteries did. As for why the #18 is emphasized more than the #20 these days, that's because Gibbs isn't stupid. He shifted things around for Kyle in '08 because he recognized just how scary good he could be. Tony made it pretty clear from day one that he wasn't happy driving a Toyota, and there's not much to be gained from supporting a lame duck. After Tony left, it was pretty obvious that Logano wasn't championship calliber yet, so they let him ride around and gain experience while most of the team's effort went to Denny after Kyle's embarressing defeat in 2008. After Hamlin shot himself in the foot in 2010, Kyle went back to being the top priority. This year they all seem to be pretty much on equal footing, but Denny looks better because a.) he has the best crew chief of the three, b.) Kyle's been a little too subdued after last year's blowup (and his terrible luck this year hasn't helped), and c.) Logano just isn't good enough to shine in equal equiptment. He needs a team totally built around him to be fully successful, and Gibbs knows that the chances of him pulling off a championship now even with that are slim. Joey's time to shine will come in the early '20's, when most of the agressive drivers have either retired or are irrelevent. When he's dealing with drivers around his age who have similarly conservative styles (ie: Bayne, Buescher, the Dillon boys, Timmy Hill), his added years of Cup experience will start paying off. Regarding the #47, I was mainly reffering to Brad Daugherty, who as another poster said, mainly sees his team as a marketing opportunity. But you're right, JTG hasn't been particularly helpful in its time as a car owner. 297. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) For all the talk about the long fade of B. Lab, has anyone noticed he's racked up the longest losing streak for a champion currently at 305 consecutive races? 298. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) even better than what I just posted Bobby is the only driver out of 12 to start every race of the Chase era and not win 1.Jimmie Johnson 51 2.Tony Stewart 29 3.Kyle Busch 24 4.Jeff Gordon 21 5.Greg Biffle 16 6.Matt Kenseth 15 7.Kevin Harvick 14 8.Kasey Kahne 13 9.June Bug 10 10.Ryan Newman 7 11.Jamie Mac 5 12.Bobby Labonte 0(Zero) you have to feel for Bobby knowing that he's had absolutely nothing since his final win in the Winston Cup era. 299. Spen posted: 07.05.2012 - 5:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch isn't on that list. He's only had 274 starts, having only run 6 races in 2004, not to mention missing Texas last year. Jeff Burton is the twelfth driver on the list, and he's won four races in that timeframe. 300. Spen posted: 07.05.2012 - 5:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But it really is sad for Bobby when you consider that in the 303 races prior to his winless streak starting (1995-2003), he had the fifth highest win pecentage of active drivers. Only Gordon, Stewart, Jarrett and Kurt Busch did better in that time frame. He even won more often than Mark Martin during that period! 301. 10andJoe posted: 07.05.2012 - 5:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >I find the solution to be quite simple: put something in front of the drivers face that protects them from flying debris. Except that might have done exactly nothing; the report I saw said that the impact was on the /side/ of her helmet... > NASCAR could also do a lot more to keep the cost of racing under control ...that's a joke, right? Everything NASCAR has done to "cut costs" has wound up making it cost /more/ to be competitive. Two examples: Cut second round qualifying? Now you /have/ to go fast with only /one/ chance. Ban testing? Now you have to privately rent tracks or use (even more) wind tunnel and computer time... 302. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 5:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #299 Dang it all I hate making mistakes Burton has 4 wins in that time frame then,I was even at his final win at Charlotte in 2008. 303. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2012 - 7:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, perhaps it's fitting that Bobby's last win was the last race of the "Winston Cup" era. After all, his brother Terry's and Bill Elliott's final wins also occurred in that season. In fact, Elliott's final win happened in the previous race, and Elliott dominated that race, only to have a tire blister on the final lap, whichhanded Bobby that win at Homestead. Perhaps in retrospect, it's only appropriate that three drivers who represented the past (Bill Elliott and the Labonte brothers) all scored their final win in the final year that Winston sponsored the series. 304. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 8:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872,you're 100% right that it was fitting for those 3 great champs to have their final wins in the final Winston Cup season. I have a simple question for you about Gordon: will he win this year? He has 3 straight Top 6 finishes, and he even said earlier this week that getting a Top 5 at Kentucky(100% Top 5 rate at all 25 tracks competed now)which he considers one of his worst tracks, was indicative of what he may able to accomplish the rest of the season,is it too much optimism? 305. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 10:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a really interesting stat for you people. Top 5 finishes starting outside the Top 20 1. Matt Kenseth 47(12 wins!) 2. Jeff Burton 46 3. Tony Stewart 36 4. Dale Earnhardt 34 5. Jeff Gordon 33 5. Dale Jarrett 33 Notables: Jimmie Johnson 16 Darrell Waltrip 16 Richard Petty 14(out of 555) Bobby Allison 7 Cale Yarborough 7 David Pearson 4 I thought this was interesting,I thought it up while I was studying F1 drivers with Podiums starting from outside the Top 10(Vettel has none) 306. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 10:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The list above is also worth noting for the contrast that it gives Gordon since he's the only Elite Pole winner with a high Top 5 from outside the Top 20 output. 307. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2012 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, I think the next two races will tell the tale on Gordon, but I think he goes winless for the third consecutive even-numbered year. The reason is that his cars just don't have enough speed, no matter what he and everyone in the media tell you. Gordon just doesn't have the speed to lead at these high-speed tracks, and by the time the circuit heads to Bristol, which again has been redone, Hendrick will go into what I call "Chase mode", which means all the resources will be slanted toward the #48 team. A lot of people say that Gordon's car have speed, and that's why he can run in the top eight. You don't have to have speed to run in the top five to eight. If you're a driver of Gordon's caliber and the car handles properly, he can run in the top 5-8 without much speed, but to get up to where you can contend for the lead, the car has to have speed, and his cars, especially on the high-speed tracks, does not have speed this year. In fact, I believe the next lap he leads on the high-speed tracks in actual racing conditions will also be the first one he leads on such tracks this year. To run consistently in the top five, you can either have fast cars or good handling cars, but you do not need to have both, but to be able to contend for the lead, you have to have both, and Gordon just doesn't have the speed this year, except on the shorter tracks, where he has led quite a bit. But a lack of sheer speed is the reason he won't win this year. 308. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While we are doing stats, how many times has Kyle led the highest number of laps in a race and not won? He has to be moving up that list rapidly. Can we get a modern era list for most races with the most laps led that wasn't won? Something tells me Dale would be first, but Kyle has to already be approaching that. Anytime he takes off and dominates early, leading the first half of the race, I always get the feeling he will screw it up. Also, can we somehow figure out who has the worst % of races in which they led the most laps that actually resulted in wins? Basically number of wins while leading the most laps divided by the total number of races in which they led the most laps. With a minimum of 10 wins. It will be interesting to see where Kyle already ranks in this. 309. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I found a few stats. Dale had 30 races (ouch!) where he led the most races and didn't win. He had 56 races where he got max points. He led the most laps in 84 races. 310. Sean posted: 07.05.2012 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This can never be completely accurate because there are many races from the '50s/'60s where the driver who led the most laps is unknown (so Lee Petty and Tim Flock among others would probably be higher) but here's the best we've got. It's not really surprising it seems to be a bit more skewed toward modern drivers because of all the modern gimmicks that inflate the number of cars on the lead lap, etc..., not to mention that there are more cars that CAN win in theory unlike most of the mid '60s to late '70s when there were usually only about five cars that COULD win... Most races leading the most laps without winning: Jeff Gordon - 46 Cale Yarborough - 41 Richard Petty - 39 Rusty Wallace - 34 Bobby Allison - 33 Dale Earnhardt - 30 Tony Stewart - 30 David Pearson - 28 Buddy Baker - 22 Bill Elliott - 22 Jimmie Johnson - 22 Darrell Waltrip - 21 Junior Johnson - 19 Mark Martin - 19 Kyle Busch - 17 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 17 Ned Jarrett - 17 Geoff Bodine - 16 Kurt Busch - 14 Ernie Irvan - 14 Matt Kenseth - 14 Ricky Rudd - 14 Buck Baker - 13 Bobby Isaac - 13 Dale Jarrett - 13 Greg Biffle - 12 Jeff Burton - 12 Tim Flock - 12 Harry Gant - 12 Fireball Roberts - 11 Curtis Turner - 11 Rex White - 11 Denny Hamlin - 10 Terry Labonte - 10 Jack Smith - 10 Fonty Flock - 9 Sterling Marlin - 9 Donnie Allison - 8 Kasey Kahne - 8 Benny Parsons - 8 Neil Bonnett - 7 Kevin Harvick - 7 Fred Lorenzen - 7 Herb Thomas - 7 Speedy Thompson - 7 Davey Allison - 6 Dick Hutcherson - 6 Ryan Newman - 6 A.J. Foyt - 5 Alan Kulwicki - 5 Jeremy Mayfield - 5 Kyle Petty - 5 Lee Petty - 5 Tim Richmond - 5 Joe Weatherly - 5 Ward Burton - 4 Carl Edwards - 4 Tiny Lund - 4 Banjo Matthews - 4 Marvin Panch - 4 Ken Schrader - 4 Mike Skinner - 4 Glen Wood - 4 Darel Dieringer - 3 Bobby Hamilton - 3 Bobby Labonte - 3 Juan Pablo Montoya - 3 Cotton Owens - 3 Jim Paschal - 3 Dick Rathmann - 3 Morgan Shepherd - 3 Gober Sosebee - 3 Martin Truex, Jr. - 3 Clint Bowyer - 2 Tommy Irwin - 2 Parnelli Jones - 2 Joe Nemechek - 2 Steve Park - 2 Lennie Pond - 2 Joe Ruttman - 2 Elliott Sadler - 2 Brian Vickers - 2 Billy Wade - 2 Bob Welborn - 2 Lee Roy Yarbrough - 2 Bill Blair - 1 Allen Adkins - 1 Mario Andretti - 1 Johnny Benson, Jr. - 1 Brett Bodine - 1 Dick Brooks - 1 Ricky Craven - 1 Lloyd Dane - 1 Charlie Glotzbach - 1 Paul Goldsmith - 1 Robby Gordon - 1 James Hylton - 1 Kenny Irwin, Jr. - 1 Bobby Johns - 1 Al Keller - 1 Dave MacDonald - 1 Dave Marcis - 1 Rick Mast - 1 Hershel McGriff - 1 Jamie McMurray - 1 Dick Meyer - 1 Bud Moore - 1 (not the owner) Ted Musgrave - 1 Billy Myers - 1 Jimmy Pardue - 1 Jim Reed - 1 David Reutimann - 1 Greg Sacks - 1 Bucky Sager - 1 Jimmy Spencer - 1 Gwyn Staley - 1 Hut Stricklin - 1 Jesse James Taylor - 1 Marshall Teague - 1 Donald Thomas - 1 Jim Vandiver - 1 Michael Waltrip - 1 Rick Wilson - 1 311. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2012 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you're math is a little mixed up. If Dale, Sr. had 30 races in which he led the most laps and didn't win and 56 in which he gained maximumn points, that would mean that he led the most laps in 86 races, not 84, so something in that last comment is innaccurate. 312. Sean posted: 07.05.2012 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now efficiency rates (percentage of races won where leading the most laps), and I'm only going to list drivers who led the most laps 10 or more times HERE: Once again the bottom of the list is dominated by drivers who competed in the last 20-25 years, as it was much harder to dominate in the '90s since there were so many weekly contenders and in the '00s due to various charity rules. I enjoyed how low Kevin Harvick was considering his wildly inappropriate nickname of "the closer", second only to Joe Nemechek's wildly inappropriate nickname of "Front Row Joe"... Obviously you would compare contemporaries here if you wanted to draw any choking vs. closing comparisons here. That means Buddy Baker and Donnie Allison look the worst to me since they competed in an era when MOST dominators won, unlike today, when most don't and the best a modern driver can really do is a 50% efficiency rate (Jimmie at 53% seems to be the REAL closer in this era...which shouldn't be a surprise either). Lee Roy Yarbrough - 9/11 = 81.82% Jim Paschal - 12/15 = 80.00% Richard Petty - 127/166 = 76.51% Lee Petty - 16/21 = 76.19% David Pearson - 69/97 = 71.13% Herb Thomas - 17/24 = 70.83% Bobby Isaac - 31/44 = 70.45% Darrell Waltrip - 48/69 = 69.57% Tim Flock - 26/38 = 68.42% Fred Lorenzen - 15/22 = 68.18% Davey Allison - 11/17 = 64.71% Dale Earnhardt - 54/84 = 64.29% Carl Edwards - 7/11 = 63.64% Marvin Panch - 7/11 = 63.64% Speedy Thompson - 12/19 = 63.16% Junior Johnson - 32/51 = 62.75% Bobby Allison - 54/87 = 62.07% Buck Baker - 20/33 = 60.61% Fonty Flock - 13/22 = 59.09% Cale Yarborough - 59/100 = 59.00% Fireball Roberts - 15/26 = 57.69% Curtis Turner - 15/26 = 57.69% Ned Jarrett - 23/40 = 57.50% Dick Hutcherson - 8/14 = 57.14% Neil Bonnett - 9/16 = 56.25% Kyle Petty - 6/11 = 54.55% Tim Richmond - 6/11 = 54.55% Mark Martin - 22/41 = 53.66% Jimmie Johnson - 25/47 = 53.19% Terry Labonte - 11/21 = 52.38% Jeff Burton - 12/24 = 50.00% Denny Hamlin - 10/20 = 50.00% Joe Weatherly - 5/10 = 50.00% Rusty Wallace - 33/67 = 49.25% Jeff Gordon - 44/90 = 48.89% Tony Stewart - 28/58 = 48.28% Harry Gant - 11/23 = 47.83% Rex White - 10/21 = 47.62% Jack Smith - 9/19 = 47.37% Benny Parsons - 7/15 = 46.67% Bill Elliott - 19/41 = 46.34% Ryan Newman - 5/11 = 45.45% Kurt Busch - 11/25 = 44.00% Kasey Kahne - 6/14 = 42.86% Kevin Harvick - 5/12 = 41.67% Kyle Busch - 12/29 = 41.38% Dale Jarrett - 9/22 = 40.91% Matt Kenseth - 9/23 = 39.13% Buddy Baker - 14/36 = 38.89% Donnie Allison - 5/13 = 38.46% Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 10/27 = 37.04% Ernie Irvan - 8/22 = 36.36% Geoff Bodine - 9/25 = 36.00% Sterling Marlin - 5/14 = 35.71% Greg Biffle - 6/18 = 33.33% Ricky Rudd - 6/20 = 30.00% 313. Baker posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So Denny Hamlin is too banged up to run the Nationwide race. Perfect chance to get a youngster like Wallace or Truex seat time right? Nope JGR finds a way to get another cupper to fill the seat. Such a shame. 314. Sean posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, I missed Carl Edwards at 63.64%, but I'm not sure if leading the most laps in eleven races is REALLY enough to draw any career conclusions in that regard... 315. Sean posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So Denny Hamlin is too banged up to run the Nationwide race. Perfect chance to get a youngster like Wallace or Truex seat time right? Nope JGR finds a way to get another cupper to fill the seat. Such a shame." Or at least they could have gotten Aric Almirola to pay back for that farce of a Busch race in Milwaukee, but that wouldn't happen since he drives for a different manufacturer... If Bowyer wasn't in the first year of his contract for MWR, I'd almost wonder if he was auditioning for the #20 (if Kenseth doesn't actually get it...) 316. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Baker, Daytona is one track where a team like JGR should put a Cup driver in to replace another Cup driver such as Hamlin, because of the experience factor of running so fast in such tight quarters, because a younger driver is much more likely to make an error from lack of experience, and a younger driver is not likely to be trusted by the veterans like a more established veteran would be. Now if it were another high-speed track like Michigan, Charlotte, or Texas, I could see the logic of putting a youngster in, but not a restrictor plate track. Daytona is not the kind of place you just throw somebody in to get experience, because one mistake could have catastrophic consequences, as it could wipe out half the field. After all, to succeed at Daytona, you not only have to have a good driver, but also a driver that others trust, and a younger driver is not usually someone others can trust at high speeds. 317. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually cjs we are talking about 3 seperate categories. I know it doesn't make sense on the surface, but it adds up. 318. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And btw, damn that was quick! Helluva job guys! Fascinating. I figured Kyle would be rapidly moving up the list and have a low efficiency rating. Jeff's numbers surprised me. 319. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now for my thoughts. First off: Richard Petty 127-166. DAMN!!!!! Don't anybody tell me that isn't the King. Seeing names like Ernie Irvan, Geoff Bodine, and Ricky Rudd towards the bottom is totally understandable. They all had their primes during NASCAR's brutal mid 80's to mid 90's stretch when winning was the most difficult. And that makes Dale's 64.29% even more impressive. I was honestly expecting it to be lower. All of his peers are in the high 40's or worse. That just further pushes home my point of how tough his era was, and how impressive it was for him to put up the numbers he did during that time. To win 6 of his 7 championships during that era and most of his 76 wins makes him the best ever IMO. Like every other relevant category he is way ahead of his peers, including certifiable legends such as Rusty, Mark, Bill, Davey, Darrell, and Terry. Although Jeff has good numbers (seems like anything above 45 is a pretty good achievement), I expected him to be above 50%. I just don't remember him blowing many races where he had a dominant car. And June having 37% sounds about right. Right around half his Daddy's numbers. Sounds right. Buddy Baker's numbers also don't surprise me. He had a lead foot that he was NOT gonna take off the gas no matter how unreliable the cars of his era were. And we love him for that! Petty once joked Buddy was NASCAR's official dyno. 320. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright since people are taking stat request, will someone please show me who has the most Triple's(win,pole and Led Most in the same race) I know a few already. Jeff Gordon 13 Jimmie Johnson 7 Mark Martin 6 Tony Stewart 1 Joey Logano 1(Pocono this year) Dale Earnhardt Jr. 0 please 321. Talon64 posted: 07.05.2012 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Tony Stewart 1" 3 if you include races where he started from pole due to qualifying being cancelled. 322. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, I have another oddball question about stats: is the 200 Top 5 club say greater than MLB's 500 Home Run club? I personally value Cup stats more than I would MLB,NHL,NFL or even F1, I also think that Nascar doesn't put any emphasis on accomplishments of great note the way they do in other stick and ball sports such as the "stats exclusive" sport of Baseball. For example: Gordon surpassed Earnhardt in Modern Top 5's last year at Bristol's night race and there wasn't a single mention,if this was the MLB it could have been a mildly significant accomplishment but they would have mentioned it anyway. any thoughts? 323. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #321 Gotta win a real pole for this one. 324. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) More stats Wins vs second place Top 12 with more wins than 2nd Richard Petty 200-157 +43 Junior Johnson 50-18 +32 Darrell Waltrip 84-58 +26 Jeff Gordon 85-61 +24 Cale Yarborough 83-59 +24 Herb Thomas 48-25 +23 Tim Flock 39-19 +20 Jimmie Johnson 57-37 +20 David Pearson 105-89 +16 Bill Elliott 44-29 +15 Rusty Wallace 55-42 +13 Notables Curtis Turner 17-13 +4 Davey Allison 19-12 +7 Dale Earnhardt 76-70 +6 Mark Martin 40-61 -21 Bobby Allison 85-87 -2 Buck Baker 46-56 -10 Buddy Baker 19-48 -29 (This is worst than Martin) Terry Labonte 22-42 -20 Bobby Isaac 37-37 = Harry Gant 18-35 -17 Dale Jarrett 32-32 =(fitting for this driver) Benny Parsons 21-31 -10 Ricky Rudd 23-30 -7 Lee Petty 54-48 +6 Tony Stewart 46-42 +4 Fireball Roberts 33-22 +11 James Hylton 2-18 -16 Denny Hamlin 19-13 +6 Greg Biffle 17-7 +10 Ward Burton 5-5 = Jim Clark 25-1 +24(F1 great) Michael Schumacher 91-43 +48(better than Petty) Kyle Petty 8-5 +3 325. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, I'd say winning 40 races is pretty comparable to what hitting 500 home runs was as a milestone prior to the steroid era in baseball. Currently, there are 17 drivers with 40 or more wins, and nobody else is joining that group any time soon (next would be the Busch brothers, each wioth 24 wins). Prior to the steroid era in baseball, there were 14 players with 500 or more home runs. But 40 isn't the milestone 50 is, and there are only 12 drivers with 50 or more wins in the Cup series, so either 40 wins or 50 wins would comprable to hitting 500 home runs in the pre-steroid era in baseball, in terms of the number that have reached that plateau. 326. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Personally I don't put much historical emphasis on qualifying. Do we really want to live in a world where Ryan Newman is one of the greats at anything? I am actually glad NASCAR doesn't put a great deal of historical emphasis on Top 5s. There is no podiums in NASCAR, and I love that. Although Jeff passing Dale in that category certainly should have at least been mentioned. Pretty much 3 categories get historical mention: championships, wins, and laps led. In that order. 327. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR milestones: 3 or more championships Back to back championships 50 wins 20000 laps led 4 race winning streaks 10 win seasons Pretty rare air where you find drivers that have accomplished each of those at least once. 328. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I believe a Top 5 in Modern Cup is more valuable than a Podium in F1 considering the competition level and the size of the fields, remember Earnhardt starting 43rd in the 95 fall Charlotte race and finishing 2nd or Gordon starting 34th at Texas this year and grabbing 4th, that's 41 and 30 places made up in races that ultimately land in the Top 5 category, I think there worth historical value. 329. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar Milestones: Triple Crowns(3 of the 5 Crown Jewels in a season) Back-Back 10 win seasons 3 or more Daytona 500's 3 or more Southern 500's 3 or more World 600's 3 or more Brickyard 400's The most Wins and the Championship in the same season 250+ Top 5's 400+ Top 10's 50+ poles(Ryan Newman has one single distinction,it doesn't make him a great) 50+ races Led Most 330. Sean posted: 07.05.2012 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree poles are basically insignificant, but I'll do the list of drivers who won the pole, won the race, and led the most laps below (it's probably the only statistic in the universe except poles where Newman beats Earnhardt): Richard Petty - 47 David Pearson - 29 Bobby Isaac - 18 Darrell Waltrip - 17 Bobby Allison - 16 Cale Yarborough - 16 Tim Flock - 14 Jeff Gordon - 12 Junior Johnson - 10 Ned Jarrett - 9 Fred Lorenzen - 9 Herb Thomas - 9 Buck Baker - 8 Fonty Flock - 8 Jimmie Johnson - 8 Rusty Wallace - 8 Bill Elliott - 7 Mark Martin - 7 Marvin Panch - 5 Lee Petty - 5 Speedy Thompson - 5 Curtis Turner - 5 Ryan Newman - 4 Jim Paschal - 4 Jack Smith - 4 Buddy Baker - 3 Dale Earnhardt - 3 A.J. Foyt - 3 Dick Hutcherson - 3 Fireball Roberts - 3 Geoff Bodine - 3 Terry Labonte - 3 Kyle Petty - 3 Joe Weatherly - 3 Rex White - 3 Glen Wood - 3 Davey Allison - 2 Denny Hamlin - 2 Ernie Irvan - 2 Dale Jarrett - 2 Kasey Kahne - 2 Dick Linder - 2 Frank Mundy - 2 Jim Reed - 2 Billy Wade - 2 Bob Welborn - 2 Donnie Allison - 1 Clint Bowyer - 1 Kyle Busch - 1 Darel Dieringer - 1 Lou Figaro - 1 Harry Gant - 1 Charlie Glotzbach - 1 Paul Goldsmith - 1 Dan Gurney - 1 Bobby Hamilton - 1 Kevin Harvick - 1 Matt Kenseth - 1 Alan Kulwicki - 1 Bobby Labonte - 1 Joey Logano - 1 Ralph Moody - 1 Norm Nelson - 1 Benny Parsons - 1 Tim Richmond - 1 Gwyn Staley - 1 Tony Stewart - 1 Marshall Teague - 1 Art Watts - 1 LeeRoy Yarbrough - 1 Yeah, this stat kind of has dubious merit, but there you go... It does still contain most of the legends anyway... 331. Cooper posted: 07.05.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is great stuff guys. Top Notch. Keep em coming. 332. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I believe a Top 5 in Modern Cup is more valuable than a Podium in F1" I agree (although I don't know a whole lot about F1). "I'll do the list of drivers who won the pole, won the race, and led the most laps below (it's probably the only statistic in the universe except poles where Newman beats Earnhardt)" Actually Newman beats Earnhardt in quite a few statistical categories: -Failed attempts at sounding smart -Education : success ratio (by a mile) -Number of phone books needed to sit on to see over the dash -Winless seasons -Number of full seasons finishing outside the Top 5 in points -Number of seasons being outperformed by your teammate -Overall crappiness of a Daytona 500 winning season (saying a lot considering how bad Dale's '98 sucked) 333. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #332 funny man #330 excellent! I really appreciate the effort on this one. 334. 10andJoe posted: 07.05.2012 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #316 - the thing is, Ryan Truex ran the 300 back in February, so he wouldn't be /too/ much of a rookie, you'd think. 335. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also love these stats. Sean, thank you so much, they are awesome. Really fascinating to see the numbers. You can't really argue over them, just try to figure out why they are what they are. A fun departure from our usual rankins lists we post every week that can be debated until the end of time. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy those too, but for example I could post this list.... Top 5 biggest fluke stats in NASCAR history: 1) Bobby Allison: No Martinsville wins 2) Cale Yarborough: No World 600 wins 3) Dale Earnhardt: Only 1 Daytona 500 win 4) David Pearson: Only 1 Daytona 500 win 5) Cale Yarborough: No Darlington Spring Race wins ...and we could argue forever over which is more head scratching. 336. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.05.2012 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "3 or more championships" Richard Petty Dale Earnhardt Jimmie Johnson Jeff Gordon Tony Stewert Darrell Waltrip Cale Y. David Pearson Lee Petty "Back to back championships" Richard Petty Dale Earnhardt Jimmie Johnson (3 in a row if you ask me but to each their own) Jeff Gordon David Pearson Lee Petty Jor Weatherly Buck Baker (one is stained in blood) Cale Y. Darrell Waltrip "50 wins" Richard Petty David Pearson Bobby Allison (85 or 86 take your pick) Jeff Gordon Darrell Waltrip Cale Y. Dale Earnhardt Jimmie Johnson Rusty Wallace Lee Petty Ned Jarrett Junior Johnson If i keep going my head and computer will explode. More tommorow. Overall, pretty short lists. 337. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Triple Crowns LeeRoy Yarbrough in 1969 David Pearson in 1976 Bill Elliott in 1985 Dale Jarrett in 1996 Jeff Gordon in 1997( first Triple Crown champ) Jeff Gordon in 1998(Back-Back) Jimmie Johnson in 2006 Back-Back 10 win seasons Herb Thomas Buck Baker Richard Petty David Pearson Darrell Waltrip Jeff Gordon 3 Daytona 500's Richard Petty Cale Yarborough Bobby Allison Dale Jarrett Jeff Gordon 3 Southern 500's Jeff Gordon Herb Thomas Buck Baker Cale Yarborough Bobby Allison David Pearson Dale Earnhardt Bill Elliott 3 World 600's Darrell Waltrip David Pearson Buddy Baker Dale Earnhardt Jeff Gordon Jimmie Johnson Kasey Kahne 3 Brickyard 400's Jeff Gordon Jimmie Johnson 250+ Top 5's Richard Petty Bobby Allison David Pearson Jeff Gordon Dale Earnhardt Darrell Waltrip Mark Martin Cale Yarborough 400+ Top 10's Richard Petty Bobby Allison Mark Martin Dale Earnhardt Jeff Gordon 50+ Poles Richard Petty David Pearson Jeff Gordon Cale Yarborough Darrell Waltrip Bobby Allison Bill Elliott Mark Martin Bobby Isaac 50+ races led most Richard Petty Cale Yarborough David Pearson Jeff Gordon Bobby Allison Dale Earnhardt Darrell Waltrip Rusty Wallace Tony Stewart Junior Johnson Jeff Gordon is the only member of every club me and DSFF have mentioned. 338. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2012 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fellow posters, for whatever reason, if you win a big event twice, you're a great champion of that event, but if you become a three-time winner of one of racing's biggest events, you become an almost instant legend. For instance, two drivers joined that group on the same day, as Dario Franchiti (Indianapolis 500) and Kasey Kahne (Coca-Cola 600), joined the all-time legends as three-time winners of one of the sport's crown jewel races. Dario became just the 10th three-time Indianapolis 500 winner and Kahne became the ninth three-time Coca-Cola 600 winner. However, many drivers have won American racing's biggest races three times. Bt going beyond that, and winning these big events more than three times makes you a racing immortal. For instance, Kahne's win in the Coca-Cola 600 marked the 29th occasion a driver won one of the NASCAR's crown jewels three times, but on only eight occasions has a driver added at least a fourth win, and Jeff Gordon is responsible for three of those occasions, including being the ONLY four-time winner of both the Talladega spring race and the Brickyard 400. In addition, seven men to date have won the Firecracker 400 three times, but only two have added a fourth victory, and in 28 years, there have been three three-time winners of the All-Star Race and in 51 years, there have several three-time winers of the fall race at Charlotte, considered the biggest race in the last quarter of the season. There are no four-time winners of either one of those races. And Darrell Waltrip is still the only driver ever to win the Coca-Cola 600 more than three times, and next year marks the 25th anniversary of him becoming the only driver ever to win that race more than three times. The Indianapolis 500 has a similar record here. It took 24 runnings for there to be a three-time winner, but after eight more Indianapolis 500s, two more men joined that club. But it took 41 years after Louis Meyer became Indy's first-ever three-time winner in 1936 for there to be a four-time winner. A.J. Foyt finally acomplished that in 1977, the the 61st running of the Indianapolis 500 (yes, it took 61 runnings for someone to finally win that race four times). But it happened twice in a five year span from 1987-'91. Indy's famous oval has, to this day, yet to see a five-time winner, and 35 years (so far) have pased since Foyt became the speedway's first four-time winner, and nobody has won for a fifth time, either in the Indianapolis 500 or the Brickyard 400. 339. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872 I forgot Allison on my list of Triple 600 winners, but that adds up to eight not nine like you mentioned. please point it out if i'm wrong, i'm on a Post mistake streak. and to back up to your point about the value of Crown Jewels in similarity to Golf Grand Slam's: Tiger Woods recently surpassed Nicklaus in PGA tour wins but they still maintain that the record that really matters is Jack's 18 Major's not the 74 total Woods has now or even Sam Snead's record 82. Southern 500 = U.S Open Daytona 500 = PGA Championship World 600 = British Open? Brickyard 400 = The Master's(right?) Spring Talladega=IDK a lot of people don't agree with the notion of Crown Jewel's meaning as much anymore, but i've always rated them(especially Darlington)just as high as you. 340. JG24FanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biggest Fluke stats in Nascar history? 1. Bill Rexford: Champion 2. Derrike Cope: Daytona 500 winner 3. Michael Waltrip: 2-Time Daytona 500 winner(i'm so glad Gordon got to 3) 4. Greg Sucks: winner of the 1985 Firecracker 400 by 23 seconds 5. Kyle Petty: Watkins Glen(None For Big E)And World 600(none for Cale)winner 341. Dave#38Fan posted: 07.05.2012 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) according to morgan shepherd's facebook page, they felt their engine did not have enough horsepower to make the race this week, so they withdrew and will spend a couple extra days working on their new hampshire car. also, morgan has been out working in his garage all week in the heat and is pretty burnt out, and a couple days off will be good for him. 342. MStall41 posted: 07.05.2012 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, the Daytona 500 is, without question "The Masters" of NASCAR. It is the biggest and most storied event in the sport. If I had to rank the most prestigious events in NASCAR, it would probably go something like this: 1. Daytona 500 2. Brickyard 400 3. Coke 600 4. Southern 500 5. Coke Zero 400 6. Irwin Tools Night Race 7. Ford 400 8. Aarons 499 9. Labor Day Classic 500 10. Amp Energy 500 The All Star Race doesn't count since its not a points race, but it is certainly one of the biggest events 343. cjs3872 posted: 07.05.2012 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, you're right JG24FanForever, there are eight three-time winners of the 600, not nine as I mentioned, but it's still amazing that of them, only Darrell Waltrip has ever won it more than three times. But it is amazing that, of the 28 previous occasions where a NASCAR driver has won a crown jewel event three times, only eight times has a driver ever went past that, and Jeff Gordon has three of those eight and Cale Yarboough has another two. The only other drivers ever to win a crown jewel race more than three times are Richard Petty (7 Daytona 500s), Waltrip (5 Coca-Cola 600s), and Bobby Allison (4 Southern 500s). It's also ironic that 3 of the 8 times a driver has won a crown jewel event more than three times, the Southern 500 has been involved, and though it is the oldest of NASCAR's big events, that actually has nothing to do with it currently, since Gordon's fourth Southern 500 win came in that event's 49th running, and both the Daytona 500 and Coca-Cola 600 have passed the 50 mark, in terms of number of times it's been run. Another thing. It seems odd that a driver would get his very first win in NASCAR's highest series in one of these races, but it's happened 22 times over the year, including three times last year. But of those 22 drivers, only six won more than 10 times on NASCAR's top series, though Brad Keselowski is certain to make it seven. And of those six, four were maiden victors in the Coca-Cola 600, and all four of those drivers (Pearson, Gordon, B. Labonte, and Kenseth) won championships. 344. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2012 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My criteria for biggest flukes puts a much higher priority on an entire illustrious career of work with one stat that just jumps out at you. Like Bobby Allison at Martinsville. Considering his incredible success on short tracks like the tiny bullrings or the pre Modern Era and his long list of wins on the old Richmond Fairgrounds, another flat half mile, you just have to wonder how that track escaped him. Not that the one race deals aren't flukes, but slipping into one is less fluky than an entire career with an unexplainable void. Another one is Rusty's overall goose egg at Darlington. Seems like when you look at his career, the more difficult and more quirky the track, the better he was. Bristol, Martinsville, Dover, Pocono, the road courses, etc. But the toughest and quirkiest one always escaped him. Seems really odd to me. Granted some of it is luck. Like Dale in the 500. He is the all time leader in that race in Top 5s, Top 10s, and laps led, yet that just translated into one win in his 20th try. As for crown jewels, again I don't put as much stock in those. Kinda like the pole argument, do we really want to live in a world where Kevin Harvick is a legend? 345. Red posted: 07.06.2012 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As for crown jewels, again I don't put as much stock in those. Kinda like the pole argument, do we really want to live in a world where Kevin Harvick is a legend?" It depends on whether you prefer to evaluate drivers based on their historical status and relevance, or by their pure racing ability. Neither way is right or wrong, but each criteria will create pretty different lists for driver rankings. We've all stated our personal preferences on this debate many times over, so I won't beat a dead horse by arguing mine again. Sean, love your lists. A few more suggestions: Ratio of wins to top fives (Can he turn a contending car into a winner?) Ratio of top fives to top tens (Can he turn a decent car into a contender?) How many times has a driver led the most laps and finished last in the same race? 346. Red posted: 07.06.2012 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's an interesting tidbit I found. For modern era drivers, there is basically a tie for Average % of Race Led: 1) Jeff Gordon 11.31% 2) Dale Earnhardt 11.30% Very fitting that the two biggest legends of the modern era would be tied in the stat that best represents dominance. The rest of the top ten... 3) Jimmie Johnson 10.61% 4) Kyle Busch 9.02% 5) Tony Stewart 8.80% 6) Davey Allison 8.37% 7) Rusty Wallace 8.01% 8) Darrell Waltrip 7.89% 9) Denny Hamlin 7.39% 10)Ernie Irvan 6.08% The one that sticks out is Denny Hamlin. For some reason I don't think of him as a guy who dominates, but I guess he has murdered the field enough times at Pocono and Richmond that his average stays propped up. 347. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2012 - 1:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A lot of the problem with evaluating drivers based on crown jewel events is the nature of the tracks themselves. For example, the crown jewel races couldn't have been set up on a worse set of tracks for Rusty. Daytona and Dega were far and away his weakness. And Darlington he had a curious inability to get ahold of no matter if it was in the Spring or on Labor Day weekend. He also was never all that strong on the 1.5 milers, with just 4 career wins at Atlanta and Charlotte including his one "big race" win. Only Indianapolis was down his alley, but he suffered from "Earnhardt in the 500" luck in that one. If given 20 tries there like Dale had at Daytona he would have won there. Plus it didn't show up on the schedule until the tail end of his prime. And his loss there in '95 trails only Ernie's '94 as the most brutal defeat in the history of that even, just ahead of Gordon last year and DJ in '98 (Montoya screwed himself in '09 and '10 so I don't count them). Conversely, the crown jewels couldn't have been better suited for Bill. Even Indy was very agreeable with him considering his record at Pocono, hence his win there. So you have to wonder, what if the big races were on short tracks? How differently would we view those two? And aren't short tracks big deals anyways? Isn't the grandfather clock one of the most sought after trophies in NASCAR? And until they screwed it up, wasn't the Bristol Night Race one of the most anticipated races of the year? Doesn't being the fan favorite as it was from the early 80's until the reconfiguration count for something? Just too many questions to put too much into the certain races. My criteria for judging greatness revolves around an entire body of work. Did they win championships and close the deal when in the hunt for the title? Did they win on a wide range of tracks? Did they dominate and put up huge numbers in bunches? Did they make it last for a long time? Example: Dale finishing in the Top 5 in points 21 seasons apart, '80 (1st) and '00 (2nd). Jeff finishing Top 5 15 seasons apart, '95 (1st) and '09 (2nd), which for the record I fully expect him to extend. I know a lot of you feel he has won his last championship, but does anyone really think he has finished Top 5 in points for the last time? 348. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2012 - 1:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, I totally agree about those stats you talked about and it would be interesting to see. And it is very interesting to see Dale and Jeff's virtual tie. Very fitting. Despite their wildly opposite public personas they are VERY similar in driving style (controlled aggression) and personality (not great family men until they hit their late 30's). It is just Dale wanted you to believe he was a black hat wearing all around bad guy straight out of an old Western who didn't give a shit about anyone (not true) and Jeff wants you to believe he is the clean cut golden boy who loves everyone (also not true, the fact is they both were/are assholes to an extent yet extremely generous to the less fortunate). And each would wreck their Mom to win a race (Jeff doesn't want you to believe this), yet both would go to the end of the world off the track for their Moms (Dale didn't want you to believe this). 349. Sean posted: 07.06.2012 - 2:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Highest percentage of top fives as wins (requiring 50 or more top fives): Junior Johnson - 41.32% Herb Thomas - 39.34% Tim Flock - 38.24% Jimmie Johnson - 36.31% Richard Petty - 36.04% Fireball Roberts - 35.48% David Pearson - 34.88% Fred Lorenzen - 34.67% Cale Yarborough - 32.55% Curtis Turner - 31.48% Darrell Waltrip - 30.43% Jeff Gordon - 29.41% Davey Allison - 28.79% Kyle Busch - 28.24% Bobby Isaac - 27.61% Rusty Wallace - 27.23% Tony Stewart - 27.22% Dale Earnhardt - 27.05% Ned Jarrett - 27.03% Kurt Busch - 26.97% Fonty Flock - 26.39% Speedy Thompson - 25.97% Denny Hamlin - 25.68% Rex White - 25.45% Bobby Allison - 25.30% Bill Elliott - 25.14% Joe Weatherly - 23.81% Lee Petty - 23.38% Jack Smith - 22.11% Greg Biffle - 22.08% Ernie Irvan - 22.06% Dick Hutcherson - 21.88% Neil Bonnett - 21.69% LeeRoy Yarbrough - 21.54% Kasey Kahne - 21.31% Carl Edwards - 20.88% Kevin Harvick - 20.22% Dale Jarrett - 19.63% Ryan Newman - 19.28% Dick Rathmann - 18.84% Buck Baker - 18.70% Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 18.63% Bobby Labonte - 18.26% Matt Kenseth - 18.18% Geoff Bodine - 18.00% Marvin Panch - 17.71% Cotton Owens - 17.31% Jim Paschal - 16.78% Jeff Burton - 16.03% Kyle Petty - 15.38% Mark Martin - 14.93% Harry Gant - 14.63% Bob Welborn - 13.79% Donnie Allison - 12.82% Terry Labonte - 12.09% Sterling Marlin - 12.05% Ricky Rudd - 11.86% Benny Parsons - 10.55% Buddy Baker - 9.41% Tiny Lund - 9.26% Morgan Shepherd - 6.35% Ken Schrader - 6.25% Dave Marcis - 5.32% Elmo Langley - 3.17% Dick Brooks - 1.75% James Hylton - 1.43% Neil Castles - 0.00% G.C. Spencer - 0.00% I hadn't even thought about this statistic, but it's definitely measuring something. TONS of conservative drivers below the 20% mark, and TONS of hard chargers above the 25% mark... 350. Sean posted: 07.06.2012 - 2:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Highest percentage of top tens as top fives (requiring 90 or more top tens): I made it 90 top tens instead of 100 (which I would have preferred) so Davey would make the list... David Pearson - 82.24% Junior Johnson - 81.76% Cale Yarborough - 79.94% Tim Flock - 79.07% Bobby Isaac - 78.82% Herb Thomas - 78.21% Richard Petty - 77.95% Ned Jarrett - 77.41% Marvin Panch - 76.19% Bobby Allison - 75.17% Fireball Roberts - 75.00% Speedy Thompson - 73.33% Jeff Gordon - 71.89% Davey Allison - 71.74% Darrell Waltrip - 70.77% LeeRoy Yarbrough - 70.65% Benny Parsons - 70.32% Lee Petty - 69.58% Joe Weatherly - 68.63% Donnie Allison - 67.83% Rex White - 67.48% Jack Smith - 66.90% Jimmie Johnson - 66.24% Buck Baker - 66.13% Kyle Busch - 65.89% Dale Earnhardt - 65.65% Buddy Baker - 64.95% Jim Paschal - 64.78% Dale Jarrett - 62.69% Tony Stewart - 61.68% Denny Hamlin - 61.67% Mark Martin - 60.50% Carl Edwards - 59.87% Harry Gant - 59.13% Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 58.29% Greg Biffle - 57.89% Rusty Wallace - 57.88% Bobby Labonte - 57.21% Bob Welborn - 56.86% Kasey Kahne - 55.45% Ernie Irvan - 54.84% Matt Kenseth - 54.75% Bill Elliott - 54.69% Ryan Newman - 53.55% Jeff Burton - 53.47% Neil Bonnett - 53.21% Geoff Bodine - 52.63% Kurt Busch - 52.05% Ricky Rudd - 51.87% Terry Labonte - 50.42% Jeremy Mayfield - 50.00% Kevin Harvick - 48.90% James Hylton - 46.51% Tiny Lund - 45.38% Dave Marcis - 42.34% Jamie McMurray - 41.41% G.C. Spencer - 39.86% Sterling Marlin - 38.43% Dick Brooks - 38.00% John Sears - 37.80% Morgan Shepherd - 37.50% Ken Schrader - 34.78% Clint Bowyer - 32.69% Elmo Langley - 32.64% Michael Waltrip - 30.23% Kyle Petty - 30.06% Neil Castles - 28.65% Cecil Gordon - 26.13% Buddy Arrington - 14.56% Wendell Scott - 13.61% J.D. McDuffie - 11.32% This is very skewed towards drivers from the past, probably because the top drivers before the modern era pretty much finished up front whenever they finished or DNFed. Generally the drivers from 6th-10th would tend to be independents who finished the race many laps down behind the factory cars. That therefore isn't really surprising, hence why the bottom drivers on this list are a bunch of underfunded independents... But the one that REALLY sticks out to me is Kevin Harvick. How the hell can a guy with as many wins as he has actually have more 6-10 finishes than top 5s? It's mindboggling beyond belief. You might expect points racers like Kenseth, J. Burton, or T. Labonte to be below 50% since they have been renowned for taking boring top tens for much of their career, but Harvick was even below them! Wow. Maybe it is just RCR's conservatism, because Bowyer is even worse...but we know both Harvick and Bowyer have had several points finishes much greater than their actual performance and this greatly supports that idea... Most of these stats are also making it somewhat harder for me to make the arguments I have made against Davey Allison (I like him, but for me it's really an anti-hype thing. I just don't see him as "The Guy Who Would Have Stopped Jeff Gordon and Won 100 Races", etc...) More like a Mark Martin-level talent, although a bit less conservative... 351. Sean posted: 07.06.2012 - 3:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How many times has a driver led the most laps and finished last in the same race?" This was the hardest one to answer since I don't have a great way to write a query for that one, although I eventually found an awkward way to write the query that worked... Amazingly, while starting first and finishing last isn't that uncommon, this has apparently only been done once, and that's debatable because complete lap leader data aren't available (1963 race 42, Joe Weatherly started on the pole and finished 17th, leading the first 33 laps before DNFing, but the other 165 laps are unaccounted for). Since we can assume that Jarrett or somebody else PROBABLY led more than 33 laps, that has apparently never been done in Cup, which indeed surprises me... It HAS been done once in Formula One, and rather recently (and there's a NASCAR connection since it was Kimi Raikkonen in the 12th race of 2005, the season he almost alternated between wins and retirements...) 352. Sean posted: 07.06.2012 - 3:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too bad Kurt Busch returned to the race after the 2007 Daytona 500 crash while battling Tony Stewart for the lead. He could have made history! Like his brother! 353. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2012 - 5:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just for stats sake... Crown jewel (Daytona, Dega, Southern 500, Talladega, Charlotte) wins overall haven't been mentioned. I do not count Darlington post-2003 because Labor Day weekend is what made it prestigious; all after are a prostiution of history. I don't count Indy to be fair to the drivers from before then. Jeff Gordon - 15 Bobby Allison - 13 Cale Yarborough - 11 Richard Petty - 11 Dale Earnhardt - 10 David Pearson - 10 Buddy Baker - 8 Bill Elliott - 6 Sterling Marlin - 3 Nelson Stacy - 2 Rusty Wallace - 1 Here it is people. We must accept in our consciences that Rusty sucked at big tracks (9 big track wins, but all at Michigan, Pocono, and Fontana) and was a short track specialist. I randomly picked drivers to emphasize that even people that the average fahn can't name are better at the crown jewels than Rusty. Even Nelson Stacy was better! O_O 354. Sean posted: 07.06.2012 - 7:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How many times has a driver led the most laps and finished last in the same race?" This was the hardest one to answer since I don't have a great way to write a query for that one, although I eventually found an awkward way to write the query that worked... Amazingly, while starting first and finishing last isn't that uncommon, this has apparently only been done once, and that's debatable because complete lap leader data aren't available. This is the race: http://racing-reference.info/race/1963-42/W Since we can assume that Jarrett or somebody else PROBABLY led more than 33 laps, that has apparently never been done in Cup, which indeed surprises me... It HAS been done once in Formula One, and rather recently (and there's a NASCAR connection...) http://racing-reference.info/race/2005-12/F 355. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, in mentioning Dale, Sr.'s career records in the Daytona 500, you forgot his five second place finishes, which is also a record. But he's hardly the only legendary driver that took a very long time to win the Daytona 500. Along with Earnhardt, who needed 20 attempts to do it, both Bobby Allison and David Pearson needed 15 attempts (not counting Pearson's DNQ for the 1972 race), Darrell Waltrip needed 17 attempts, and Buddy Baker needed 18, so Earnhardt's hardly alone in this category. And NicoRosbergFan, the fact that it was run on Labor Day weekend until 2003 was not what made the Southern 500 at Darlington a crown jewel event. What made it a crown jewel event was, and is the fact that it's the oldest 500-mile stock car race, starting in 1950, and that it's run on the toughest track on the circuit. That's what makes it a crown jewel. When RJR started the Winston Million at the 1984 Awards Banquet for the 1985 season, they issued certain reasons for each of the four events being the crown jewels of the sport. The Daytona 500 was the biggest, the Winston 500 (now known to me as simply the Talladega spring race) was the fastest (though ironically, the Daytona 500 still held that distinction for a few more months), the Coca-Cola 600 was the longest, and the Southern 500 was the oldest. And when the Brickyard 400 was added in 1994, it instantly became the fifth crown jewel, despite it's shorter distance, because it is run on the world's most prestigous and well-known track. And you say that Dale Jarrett's defeat in the 1998 Brickyard 400 was brutal, while Juan Montoya's defeats in 2009 and 2010 (especially 2009) were self-inflicted, so you don't count them in the "brutal losses" category. But the only reason Jarrett didn't win the Brickyard in 1998 was because Todd Parrott kept him out to try to win the $10,000 halfway bonus when there was a $1,000,000 bonus for winning the race (he was one of the five drivers eligible), and Parrott ran him out of gas at about the worst possible spot, and Jarrett lost four laps as a result, a far worse fate than Montoya suffered in 2009. Now Jarrett made up all four of those laps because of how dominant his car was (and because Gordon was smart in not racing him, knowing Jarrett couldn't beat him), but Jarrett's loss in the 1998 Brickyard was also self, or in this case, team-inflicted. 356. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just cause of the Dillons being in the news lately... Has anyone else found it curious how NASCAR has let Richard Childress hold the 3 for all these years, reserving it for his grandsons? Meanwhile, during that sames time frame, I read articles of how NASCAR was threatening to take away numbers from teams that had paid for the rights to a number, but hadn't used it by July. I understand Childress's connection because he drove it for many years, but I for one would like to see many other numbers held hostage in the same way if NASCAR allowed Childress to hold it without using. Personally, if I could sacrifice the funds, I'd buy the #11, #21, #43, and #42 and never let anybody within my team use it in competition because those numbers have been driven by drivers who shaped much more of NASCAR history. I understand, but either anybody can use it, or it's completely retired from the sport, and no professional body has retired a driver's number besides IMSA. 357. Sean posted: 07.06.2012 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No professional body has retired a driver's number besides IMSA." CART retired #99 after Greg Moore died. However, when CART and IRL merged, apparently that was lifted because a few people have used #99 in the merged IndyCar... 358. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.06.2012 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Southern 500 = U.S Open Daytona 500 = PGA Championship World 600 = British Open? Brickyard 400 = The Master's(right?) Spring Talladega=IDK" I'll make this easier to understand: Short Track: US Open Road Course: British Open Championship (unless your Harry Vardon or Tom Watson) Plate Track: PGA Championship (Big E and Walter Hagen come to mind) Ovals Track: The Masters (Jimmie Johnson and Jack Nickleaus) 359. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2012 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once again, outstanding work Sean. Thank you so much. And you nailed it about Harvick and Bowyer's stunningly low percentages, as well as the fact both have had points finishes way higher than they should have because of the reward places on consistency. Bowyer in '07 and Harvick in '08 come to mind immediately. Niether were top 5 drivers that season. And a lot of it is the RCR system of recent years. They simply will not push a car mechanically or behind the driver's seat. Ithink ever since Dale's smoke and mirrors 2nd place points finish in 2000 (that year Gordon was down, DJ was down, Rudd was getting adjusted, Rusty was wildly inconsistent, Tony was wildly inconsistent, Roush's big 2 were inconsistent) where he never led the most laps in a race but just kept grinding out Top 5 after Top 5 which kept him ahead of everyone except Bobby, it seems like Richard has been content with that system. But he needs to realize a few things. First off, Harvick, Burton, and when he had Bowyer, they are not Dale Earnhardt. Even pushing 50 and past his prime, he could still have run circles around those 3 in their primes. Secondly, while they are out there in a good year getting finishes of 4th and 5th, drivers like JJ and Smoke are getting at least 3 wins in the final 10 and racking up Top 3s. The math just doesn't work out. 360. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To add to that point DSFF, cars just don't fall out of races any more. It used to be that you could win championships with runs of about fourth to seventh every week with an occasional win, because those that stepped on it trying to win races, would also fall out of a number of races, and a DNF is penalized more than three wins are. Now if cars fell out of races more often, it would be a different story. Bowyer in 2007 is a classic case. Remember that, of the 12 drivers that made the Chase that year (2007 was the first year that 12 drivers were in the Chase), Bowyer was the only one without a win when the Chase started, but he won the first race in the Chase, finsihed second at least twice after that, and if the Hendrick cars not had everyone else covered, Bowyer might have stole the championship that year. Also, as you know, Childress' philosophy, which actually goes back to when he drove in the 1970s, is to be conservative and let other parts of the team get you ahead, which is why when Earnhardt dominated, Childress not only had the best driver, but also had the best pit crew, and the best engines when it came to a combination of horsepower an reliability. The only place where Childress really suffered was fuel mileage, which cost Dale Earnhardt many a race, though it won him the 1986 Coca-Cola 600 when Bill Elliott had to make a late pit stop for gas, while Earnhardt was able to stretch his fue to the finish. 361. ch posted: 07.06.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dillon's qual lap has been disallowed, Stenhouse is now on pole tonight. 362. Red posted: 07.06.2012 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, thanks for taking the time to make those lists. The results showed exactly what I was hoping for. My favorite is the Win/T5 ratio, as it's the closest thing to an equipment-independent measure for great drivers. Among the upper echilon, the legendary drivers win when they aren't supposed to, the middle-of-the-road drivers finish as well as their car but no better, and the lesser guys settle for top fives even when they have a car capable of winning. Granted, racking up a bunch of top fives in the most competitve series in the world is no small feat, and should be lauded, but we're talking about greatness here. ----- I'm surprised nobody has ever led the most laps and finished last. However, it almost happened in 2006 at Fontana, when Greg Biffle led 168 of 251 laps and finished 42nd with a blown engine. The driver who did finish last, Tony Stewart, also led 28 laps in that race, so the two bottom finishers led 78% of that event. The 2007 Daytona 500 was also a near miss, as the two drivers who led the most laps (Kurt Busch, 95 and Tony Stewart, 35) finished 41st and 43rd after crashing each other out of the lead. In 2000, Jeremy Mayfield managed to finish 41st after leading the most laps TWICE, and also finished 29th while leading the most (Next to Geoff Bodine's 1994, Mayfield's 2000 was probably the most inconsistent season in NASCAR history). Elliott Sadler, Tony Stewart, and Kyle Busch have also finished 41st while leading the most. I don't know why this stat fascinates me so much, but it does. 363. 10andJoe posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) -David Stremme's 150th Cup start 364. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Possibly A. J. Allmendinger's final career start. 365. Unser1 posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adding to post 357, NASCAR retired Richie Evans' iconic #61 in the Modified Tour after his 1985 death on the way to his posthumous title. AJ Allmendinger scores a top-10 in his last race before the drug suspension. 366. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 04.24.2014 - 12:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew 74 Stacy Compton Chevy Turn One Racing Vickie Compton 367. Windows Millennium Edition posted: 07.28.2016 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner of the withdrawn #74 was Stacy Compton (like every other race they were entered in 2012). Vicky was just listed as the owner on paper. 368. 18fan posted: 10.13.2016 - 3:15 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Entering this race, Brad Keselowski was 10th in points. Over the final 20 races of the season, he would finish out of the top 15 only once, and out of the top 10 only 3 times, on his way to the championship. Brad scored the most points over the full season, as well as winning the Chase. 369. m331m89 posted: 01.10.2020 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Was Michael Waltrip's Final Cup Start Outside Daytona & Talladega. His Final Remaining 16 Cup Starts Were Run The 2 Plate Tracks. 370. m331m89 posted: 01.10.2020 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Was AJ Allmendinger's Last Cup Race Before Drug Suspension. He Returned At Charlotte Later In The Season In October Driving For Phoenix Racing. This Was Also His Last Cup Start Driving For Penske Racing. He Returned To Penske Racing In 2013 For 2 Nationwide Races At Road America & Mid Ohio, Won Them Both, & 6 Indycar Races Including A 7th In The 2013 Indy 500. 371. Foote posted: 04.02.2020 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure why, but Michael Waltrip decided to run this race in the MWR #55. It was a strong team led by Rodney Childers-- in Mark Martin's 24 races in the car, he had a 9.2 AvSt and 4 poles. Waltrip qualified an embarrassing 39th in this race and finished 5 laps down in 30th. To start the season, Waltrip failed to make the Daytona 500 because he crashed all by himself coming out of the pits in the Duel race. However, he nearly won Talladega in the Fall before Stewart chopped him on the last lap in that massive crash that left Dale Jr with another concussion. 372. JR-TV posted: 04.02.2020 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @371, Kentucky is Michael Waltrip's home track and was still pretty new to the cup schedule in 2012. Michael didn't get to race there during his full-time cup career and DNQed at Kentucky in 2011 in the part-time #15 that didn't have owner points when qualifying was rained out. So it makes sense that Michael would want to race one cup race at his home track. He knew he wouldn't run well but it probably meant a lot for him to just get to start a race in his home state. 373. TeamDCRfan posted: 04.02.2020 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember Jimmy Spencer's jumping on Michaels comment about wanting to finish top 25, saying that Vickers and Martin were running up front, but Michael is okay with 25th 374. Michael posted: 04.02.2020 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @371 If I remember correctly, Michael Waltrip ran a paint scheme that paid tribute to DW's induction into the Hall of Fame. The way I remember it, Michael was going to run that car at Talladega but crashed in practice and had to go to a backup car that had the regular paint scheme so he decided to run an extra race at their home track so he could race with the tribute car. 375. NascarLeadLapPoints posted: 09.30.2020 - 9:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne 2nd place is best finish for Hendrick at Kentucky At the time of this post, Kentucky will be only track that Hendrick didn't win at 376. NASCAREnthusiast posted: 09.30.2020 - 10:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @375 They won the 2003 ARCA race and the 2004 Busch Series race 377. Rich posted: 12.15.2020 - 7:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Chris Neville, Marty Snider, Ralph Sheheen and Matt Yocum were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: