|| *Comments on the 2012 Coke Zero 400:* View the most recent comment <#360> | Post a comment <#post> 1. Talon64 posted: 07.06.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth earns his 8th career Cup pole, 4 of them coming since 2011. In his first 400 starts Kenseth had just 4 poles and a 20.3 avg start, but has improved greatly to a 14.0 avg start over the last two seasons. also, when will RCR's Nationwide teams stop cheating? Because the #3 team got busted AGAIN, this time for an illegal open cooling hose under the cockpit after they won the pole. Time disallowed, so Ricky Stenhouse Jr. is credited with the pole. This is the #3 team's 3rd strike this season, 2nd when they've already been under probation, so Danny Stockman Jr. might be getting a little vacation courtesy of NASCAR on Tuesday. 2. Talon64 posted: 07.06.2012 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart's time was disallowed for the same infraction as Austin Dillon on the Nationwide side, so he'll now start 42nd. Worst of all, Cup teams haven't picked their pit stalls yet so he not only starts 42nd but picks 42nd. And losing the pit stall is worse than the qualifying spot. Dillon gets to keep his #1 pit stall for the Nationwide race because all the teams had already picked their stall. 3. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unbelieveable with the 3 car in NWide. 4. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, good qualifying run for two-time Firecracker 400 winner Bill Elliott, but I think we know exactly where he'll be heading when the race starts, and that's straight to the back of the field, as Elliott will go to the back where he won't be in such heavy traffic. Also, if you remember last year's Daytona 500, Elliott had a car capable of winning, but the only driver that would work with him was Terry Labonte, and both were among the few not to encounter trouble in the Daytona 500 last year. 5. Daniel posted: 07.06.2012 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #23 Robert Richardson Jr. Out using fastest 43: #14 Tony Stewart 6. Red posted: 07.06.2012 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I have never understood why teams cheat in plate race qualifying. Starting position means nothing in those races, and yet how many times have we seen a team and driver get fined and lose points for cheating? Over the last decade, there's probably been more qualifying infractions at Daytona and Dega than all the other tracks combined. This pattern is especially stupifying at Speedweeks, when top 35 teams cheat for starting position in the DUEL races, which themselves mean virtually nothing. Plate racing is such a crapshoot, I'm not sure if a cheated-up car will really have that much advanatge even if it makes it to the race. Memo to crew chiefs: If you're going to cheat, at least do it when it'll actually help your team! Matt Kenseth is clearly the man to beat at plate races. Wow that sounds funny to say. 7. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He (Kenseth) certainly is Red, and his crew chief Jimmy Fennig was the crew chief for the last driver to sweep the Daytona races, Bobby Allison. Now he wasn't Allison's crew chief at that time, Gary Nelson was, but Fennig was Allison's crew chief when Allison won the 1988 Daytona 500. Allison would have been a major favorite for the Firecracker that year, but sufered his career and nearly life-ending injuries at Pocono a few weeks earlier. And Kenseth is fortunate that he isn't starting in the middle of the field, because there figures to be a mad scramble in the early laps to get around Bill Elliott, who starts in the top ten, but figures to go straight to the back, and there could be a crash caused in the scramble to get by Elliott in the early laps. If I were Steve Turner, I owuld try to get NASCAR to allow me to put someone like James Buescher or Austin Dillon in the car, now that it's qualified for the race. I know that would mean going to the back, but at least he would then have someone that will actually race. All Elliott is going to do is ride in the back the entire race when he gets back there. 8. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2012 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a wreck! 9. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For a wreck that had so many cars involved, the championship battle inthe Nationwide Series will probably be unaffected as all four campionship contenders got through, though it's reported that Elliott Sadler received some damage, he can still get to the front. What caused that crash is the one real fault of tandem racing, and that's the element of drivers having to switch. Mike wallace and Kevin Harvick did the switch, and at the same time, James Buescher and Kyle Busch, who was pushing Buescher, had nowhere to go. Kyle was driving blind, so he can't be faulted, nor can Buescher, who tried to avoid Wallace's car. 10. murb posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse was all over Brad Sweet since that restart. That 38 going around was inevitable. 11. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hard hit for Brad Sweet. Lucky he didn't hit that head on, that would have been a really nasty looking crash. 12. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Especially murb, because Stenhouse was on his LEFT rear en the accident happened, which time and time again, has proved to be disastrous. You can push on the right rear, something Trevor Bayne was the first to really exploit last year, but not the left rear, and how many times does this have to happen before drivers actually learn that they can't push on the left rear of another car. 13. Mr X posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is a little bit of incentive to cheat in qualifying for a plate race, its potentially a very easy pole, as as long as the driver is smooth with the steering, and gets through the gears well, anybody could win a pole at Daytona or Talladega, but again starting positions are meaningless at a plate race, and penalty creates a bigger wound then the pole position bandage can cover. Qualifying can be exciting though, especially at a road course, it's exciting to watch a truly balls to the wall lap at the absolute limit. Qualifying was a huge part of why Ayrton Senna is so highy sought of, I for one consider him to be the greatest racing driver ever. 14. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Big hit for Danica. 15. murb posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 3 car failing yet another inspection really disappoints me. I've been a Jeff Burton and Kevin Harvick fan since I was a little kid, so I've always liked RCR. They've always come off as a blue collar type of team. But lately they've had some questionable stuff happen. There was Richmond last year (which embarassed the hell out of me as a Harvick fan), there was Richard's obsession with Kyle last year (even though I think Kyle totally deserved the ass beating during that period of time), and of course there has been the past two weeks with the 3 car winning races/poles and then getting caught with illegal stuff. So for someone who considers himself to be an RCR fan, it really makes me shake my head. As I'm typing this, Stenhouse just took Danica out. That's why he still has a long way to go if he wants to achieve Matt Kenseth level success in that car. 16. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somebody took out both Dale's grandson and Danica. Brian France is ordering their lifetime ban from NASCAR as we speak. Glad she's ok. She had the only car that could run with the leaders with no help. 17. 1995z71 posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You guys really need to get on a forum. Not trying to troll, but man your not even talking about the same race on this page. 18. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse, you must face the wrath of Brian France. You made him cry by causing that wreck. 19. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, what caused that wreck, I believe, was that both Jeffrey Earnhardt and Stenhouse were closing up on Hornish so fast that Earnhardt had to back off exiting turn two, and Stenhouse, who essentially driving blind at that point, because he was pusing Earnhardt, had no idea Earnhardt was backing off because of the rate closure, and spun him out. 20. Cooper posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't describe how much I dislike Wrecky Stenhouse. Words can't describe it enough. Hope his career fails miserably. No offense to Ricky's fans. 21. murb posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995z71, the reason why I don't go on forums is because most of the ones I've seen have a bunch of fanboys on there who rattle off statements that would make the Nascar.com forum group blush. This site has people who have watched racing their entire lives, and (most) everyone on here is civil towards each other and respects each other's opinions. So I'd much rather be on here with real fans instead of a bunch of insane people. But that's just my opinion... 22. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995z71, we probably would on the Nationwide race page, except for the fact that the race page for the Nationwide race won't be up until about an hour or two after the race ends. 23. Mr X posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a scary hit for Danica, as the steering box mounted in the left front corner of the car pushed backwards and the steering column went with it. THAT IS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN! That is extremely unsafe. One on the biggest safety features installed in your road car and a race car is a collapsable steering column, as before they existed in a frontal collision the driver could find him or herself virtually impaled on the column, obviously Danica's car has one, but clearly it didn't function properly, and she is quite lucky, it could've been quite bad for her. 24. murb posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good job by Kurt holding those guys off. I was hoping it wouldn't be Logano or Stenhouse, so that was cool to see. lol, What was Kyle doing on pit road? 25. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wrecky Stenhouse fits the mold of a current Roush driver, as a Ford fan, I'm really thankful Penske is joining Ford in 2013 26. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ricky have offically gone back to Wrecky. Good job. It toke you 1 year to get your act together but 1 race to go back to it. James Finch you built one hell of a motor to last through all that. None of use ever doubted Kurt Busch the RACER, we doubted what was between Kurts ears. 27. LordLowe posted: 07.06.2012 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah Stenhouse wrecked Danica out of the Danica Patrick 250 he is bound to get crucified for that one. 28. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2012 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ricky is in the secret torture chamber built underneath NASCAR's Daytona Beach headquarters right now, probably on the rack. He will spend the next 6 days being slowly tortured. 29. Baker posted: 07.06.2012 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony always seems to start way up front on plate tracks only to get caught up in someone else's wreck, so NASCAR sending him to the back may be a blessing in desciese. 30. 10andJoe posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) -David Ragan's 200th Cup start 31. 10andJoe posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >As I'm typing this, Stenhouse just took Danica out. I'm pretty sure it was Johanna Long who turned Danica... Murb - I think Kyle was "expressing his displeasure" with Ricky Stenhouse, judging by where his car wound up pointing. 32. Roger posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know if Bill will drop to the back or not but lets not forget that some of the younger drivers have employed this at the RP tracks as of late. Seems like Harvick is one that has hung out in the back to the end of races. Let us not forget Elliott hasn't started in the top 10 in a long time. If a few cars can break away quick he will try to stay up front. The real problem is the majority of drivers today can't really drive. Not like the guys that rode this track unrestricted with bias ply tires. You have to worry about some idiot causing an unnecessary wreck way to early in the event. I can't really fault anyone for falling back. In 2010 he fell back and had a legit shot to win the race prior to making a bad move late in the race. I think Bill is in the best car he has been in since 2003. Probably the best plate car since 2000. The two car tandem is about dead and will be non existent in this hot weather. Carl Edwards was willing to push Elliott to the win in 2010 so as long as Bill shows a solid car people will work with him. I don' think this is going to be like it has been in the past with crap equipment. Turner is legit as legit can be.... 33. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually 1995 Subaru WRX STi, James Finch and Kurt Busch can thank Hendrick Motorsports for building that engine. As I recall, Jeff Gordon's engine was doing the exact same thing the last time he won at Darlington in 2007. And DSFF, let's not forget how close Stenhouse came to taking out Kurt Busch (and possibly Michael Annett) in the run to the checkers, as he got into Busch and actually a lesser driver than Kurt would have lost it, because it fishtailed pretty good. We could see a major incident at the beginning of the Firecracker 400 tomorrow night similar to what happened to Trevor Bayne last year if someone gets into Bill Elliott when he anchors away to the back of the field, unless he just moves up a lane to get out of everyone else's way, because starting sixth, you know he's just going to drop to the back as fast and safely as he can, even with 37 cars behind him, but someone else could get into the back of Elliott, or Elliott's car dropping back could cause something to happen behind him if he drops back as quickly as I think he's going to. I'll be interested in how the first few laps of tomorrow night's race play out if Elliott doesn't drop to the back before the start, which he certainly can do legally. Again, having his car qualified, which was the main reason Bill Elliott was put in that car to begin with, if I were Steve Turner, I would consider putting someone in that car that can and is willing to show it's true potential, which Elliott is unwilling to do at this time in his career. Just look at his runs in a very fast #21 car at Daytona in 2009-'10, and look what happened when they got a driver in that car that had every intention of racing. They won the Daytona 500 last year. 34. murb posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, you're right. I was busy typing so I didn't get to see what happened. I've gone back and seen what happened. I believe Stenhouse actually turned Jeffrey Earnhardt around, which then caught Danica up. 35. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Roger, I think you were referring to last year's Daytona 500, when Elliott was in eighth on the final restart, but nobody would help him. Edwards had no intention to help him, as he was paired with David Gilliland, and they finished second and third. The only driver that would run with Elliott that day was Terry Labonte. And Elliott did qualify in the top ten several times with the Wood Brothers, and even threw a few top five qualifying runs together, but dropped anchor almost as soon as the green flag dropped. Elliott hasn't really pushed a car in racing conditions since about 2004, and has NEVER been comfortable racing in heavy traffic, even when he was winning races. That's one reason why he's rarely been a factor in plate races through his career. It's for those reasons why within 10 laps, if he hasn't been wrecked, he'll probably be 30th-35th, and I still think he may drop back before the start, which is allowed, because he knows what a hazard his car could be when it drops back. 36. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2012 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, one factor many people seem to be missing in that incident was how fast Earnhardt and Stenhouse were closing on Sam Hornish. What I think happened was that Earnhardt had to back off and Stenhouse, who was pushing Earnhardt and effectively driving blind, had absolutely nowhere to go but straight into Earnhardt. That's a common problem with tandem racing, which was the rule in the Nationwide race, unlike what the Cup race is liable to be. The closing rate was also the main contributing factor in the huge crash not long before that incident. 37. Rusty posted: 07.07.2012 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I had fun seeing the Cup cars qualify, too bad I can't be there for the big race. I was really impressed by Bill Elliott and his Turner Motorsport #50 car. He held up in 2nd for most of the session until towards the end. Tony Stewart had the 2nd fastest time, but it was disallowed after failing inspection. Austin Dillon also failed inspection after winning the pole for the Nationwide race. 38. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) For anyone who saw qualifying, did it make anyone else feel old seeing Jeff with so much gray in his beard? For SO long he was The Kid, The Young Gun, Wonderboy, etc. 39. Spen posted: 07.07.2012 - 3:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now imagine how old we'll feel in twenty or so years when Logano is getting grey. But yay for Bill!!!! I wish I could have seen his qualifying lap. The power was out in my town from about 5PM-2AM. 40. Spen posted: 07.07.2012 - 3:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: Sure, purely from a results standpoint, replacing Bill with someone like Buescher would be a good move, but Turner made himself pretty unpopular with some fans after firing Sorenson before the end of last season. Giving Bill one final chance in a great car gives him some much needed positive PR. 41. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) With 3-5 start and parks, that means there are 38-40 cars that have a legitimate shot of winning this race. And don't deny it, cjs, cause you know it's true. Just look at Dave Blaney leading some plate races. 42. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes NicoRosbergFan, including this year's Daytona 500 when Montoya hit the jet dryer at the 400-mile mark. I won't sat there are 35-38 cars that can win, but there are more than 20 that can win, as is the case in any plate race. Of course, major wrecks will thin that out, although two of the top seven starters are on that list that I don't think can win, and they would be Bill Elliott, who will drop to the back to get out of traffic (and probably run with the Labonte brothers), and Casey Mears, who just simply doesn't have the team, even if he does have a car strong enough to contend. And Spen, I'm not sure NASCAR would even allow Turner to replace Elliott with James Buescher, because Buescher's never been in a Cup race. I just threw his name out there because he drivers for Turner. A better option, in my opinion would be either Austin Dillon, who has driven in a couple of Cup races (though I'm not sure NASCAR would allow that either) or someone like Cole Whitt or even Elliott Sadler (note that I'm mentoning Chevrolet drivers in the Nationwide Series). But Elliott is just going to ride in the back the entire race. After all, he's not been a factor in a race at Daytona in over a decade. His last top ten at a plate track, I believe, was the 2001 Daytona 500, when he finished fifth, and he rode at the back for most of that race, despite being on the pole. 43. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, just open yourself to other possibilities than your own imagination... God only knows, Bill Elliott or Casey Mears could have awesome race cars and lead 80% of the race. There are so many possibilities. This could even turn into a repeat of 2002 Aaron's 312 (heaven forbid). Me, I take the sensible approach; root that my guy just survives. 44. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But NicoRosbergFan, I use history as my guide, and history shows that Elliott will drop to the back, and probably as soon as possible. And even if he was a little racier than usual, nobody's likely to help him because they may not want to go to the back when Elliott goes back there, which is why Terry Labonte was the only driver that would run with him in last year's Daytona 500. And as for Mears, I have no doubt that he can run up front, and that his car may be capable of running up there. In his case, his team, especially his pit crew, will be his undoing, even if he has a car capable of winning. Remember Landon Cassill in this race last year? He had a car capable of winning, but every time he made a green flag pit stop, he lost 15-20 seconds because of his pit crew. That's likely to be Mears' undoing. 45. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I cannot vouch for Mears's pit crew, but they seem pretty sloppy. If it comes down to pits, I don't see Bill getting let down. And I only say what I say about Bill because he knows how to win these big races from both the back and the front. I don't see people dropping as FAR back here because it is harder to regain time at Daytona than Talladega. Just far enough to have a couple seconds in case of a wreck. 46. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill's problem is that he'll be in the back the entire race because he does not want to be in traffic, and you can't make up ground at Daytona like you can at Talladega, because there just isn't that much racing room. That was the big problem with Jeff Gordon and Mark Martin in this race last year. They had cars fast enough to win, but their strategy was to drop 10-15 seconds behind and make that up at the end, which they did time-wise, but they just could not get to the front because there isn't room to maneuver at Daytona like there is at Talladega. Again, I use what he did in the #21 car in 2009-'10 and compare that to his successor, and there's a stark difference in racing philosophies, because Bill had no intentions of actually racing, and part of getting up front late is putting yourself in a position to get up front late, and Bill was not even trying to do that. He was just trying to get the car home in tact, and if that meant running and finishing 30th, than so be it. 47. Cooper posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Elliott will be more competitive than you think cjs3872. 48. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope so, Cooper, but history shows otherwise, and what happened with the Wood Brothers when he drove the car and when Trevor Bayne got in the car last year may be the best explanation of Elliott's uncompetitveness in the race, and Trevor's not one of the more aggressive drivers himself. In his prime, Bill Elliott never liked being in heavy traffic, but at 56 years of age, that shows even more. That's why he'll hang out in the back, quite possibly with the Labonte brothers. In fact, Terry might have a better night than Bill if the strategy plays out right. Remember that Terry actually led the Daytona 500 before getting spun out. Remember that Elliott, while in the #21 car, often qualified with the leaders, but dropped like a rock when the green flag came out. 49. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I am not disagreeing. I think Bill will plummet, but please be open to other's suggestions. As for Terry, look at the 2012 Daytona 500 page. He led all 3 laps under caution. 50. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But NicoRosbergFan, Terry was racing side-by-side for the lead for a couple of laps after the restart from the caution you referred to when he got hit and spun out. He never officially led the race under green, you're right about that, but he was racing side-by-side for the lead when he got spun out. And I hope we're both wrong about Elliott being uncompetitive because it would be nice to see Elliott up close to the front for a while. I just don't see it happening, and apparently, neither do you. However, I do think Casey Mears could be a dark horse, especially if the pit stops all happen under caution, because if his pit crew is as sloppy as you say it is, he won't lose time, just positions that can easily be made back up in the draft. But I'd like to see both at of near the front for a while, if only because they qualified there, and I think Mears can hold it up there. Besides, it would be nice to see guys up front that aren't usually up there, which has always been a charm about Daytona going back to the 1960s. 51. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.07.2012 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one being very apprehensive of this race? I still think the 500 earlier this year was a crapshoot. It had good potential, but I think alot of things ruined it. If we go through this race, and it's just as bad, if not worse, then the 500 this year, I might as well stop watching Cup restrictor plate races and just stirck with the Nationwide/Truck Plate races. 52. Eric posted: 07.07.2012 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Why are not going to mention about Denny Hamlin may or may not be competitive for the Daytona race? I am bringing up for a couple a reasons. The first thing is Kentucky's surface bothered his bad back and there is not telling how gun shy he'll be for mixing it up as a result. The 2nd thing I mentioned it is the nature of Denny's back and how he has been handling his back. Denny already has broken discs and bulging discs in his back before Kentucky. He has doing training and stuff for his back because he doesn't want to have surgery on his back for many more years. The 3rd reason is Denny's back isn't as bad as Jeff's back a few years ago, but a couple pretty bad wrecks is going to change that. 53. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Denny will be right up there at some point, but his luck at finishing these plate races among the leaders is about as bad as anyone among the top drivers. Remember that Denny got his knee operated on two years ago due to a torn ACL, so that might be one reason he's a bit gunshy about another surgery, and I know how he feels about that, because I delayed my leg operation as long as I could before getting it done in 2001. And you say that the track surface at Kentucky made the situation regarding Denny's back worse. I'm not surprised, because that track surface is so bumpy, that it's borderline unsafe. Remember the truck race there last year when the bumpy surface caused Austin Dillon's hood to fly up, causing him to be driving blind for a few laps. That entire episode was track surface related. 54. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, cjs, sorry for the ambiguity there. I meant that I agree that Bill will drop to the back. I actually could see Bill being competitive tonight because it is a Turner car, but I worry because it's their first Cup race. I say Mears's pit crew is sloppy because earlier this year at Dega there several times Mears was in the top-5 or 10, and dropped out in the pits. I will admit I have been hoping to see Terry or Bill win one of these plate races because I know NASCAR would have kiniptions if they did. I didn't watch much of Daytona in February because I refuse to watch any race NASCAR race with Danica in it unless it is an NNS road race If Terry did run as well as you say, then maybe he does have a shot. I say it is 50-50 that Terry and Bill run well. I think that Stoddard team has a lot of potential. They have fewer mechanical issues than a Hendrick team does over a season; only 8 DNFs since starting, and only 1 was a start-and-park. Looking at the numbers, Mears's and Labonte's pit crews stink. So they need to do their best there. I think Bill could actually GAIN in the pits because he will most likely have a Turner NNS pit crew on his car. Let's wait till lap 25 and see what happens and then make further guesses. 55. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, what happened with Terry in the Daytona 500 this year was that his team got him up front by not pitting during a caution, which got him up front, but on the short span of racing that followed before he got spun out, his car was good enough to race for the lead. Now he never factored again in the race, but for a brief moment, he showed why he is a two-time NASCAR champion. And actually, we agree on most of the points you made about Elliott dropping back and the sloppiness of Mears' pit crew. But the #32 car is uncompetitve and is a backmarker wherever it runs, except for the plate tracks, no matter who runs it, whether it's Labonte, Ken Schrader, Mike Bliss, or anyone else that's run it, so the Frank Stoddard team really has little to no potential. It's just there to fill a spot in the field, but runs the full race, unlike the others in that predicament. And I agree that Bill might gain positions on his pit stops, but Steve Turner's pit crew is no match for the well-trained Cup pit crews. I just think they'll want to get out of Daytona with their car in one piece, and if they can do that, they could finish between 15th and 20th, on attrition alone, and with a break or two from there, could challenge for a top ten. 56. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NNS pit stops are not much different from Cup pitstops. Consider that Cup drivers bring their Cup crews to NNS races, and then consider that Turner competes with them quite nicely. Their problem will be whether or not there's genuine speed. By potential I meant that Stoddard's team has the potential to build much like Furniture Row Racing. Note that Bliss only finished 3 laps down at Phoenix. The process may take a while, but I think they can make it. 57. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But I'm not sure Stoddard's team is going to last past this season. Remember that they fared better last year, even running a second car in a few races. But whatever sponsorship they had has dried up, because they haven't found hardly any sponsorship in the last month, and I get the feeling that FASLane Racing, which really doesn't get any backing at all, may not be around past this year. On the other hand, Turner gets quite a bit of backing from Hendrick Motorsports, which definately helps. And I wonder if this deal to have Bill Elliott drive Turner's car this isn't a part of that, considering Bill's son Chase is a Hendrick Motorsports development driver. Perhaps this may be an indication of where Chase might start his career in the major NASCAR series when he becomes eligible. But as for the pit stops, the plate tracks may be where they're the most critical, because a pit stop two seconds slower may cost you ten or more on the track, or possibly get you out of any kind of a draft, which could actually cost a driver a lap. The pit stops aren't much different, but they are about 1-2 seconds slower. Under caution, especially at a place like Daytona, a slightly slower pit stop really doesn't cost you that much, but under green, a pit stop about 1-2 seconds slower could be disastrous. 58. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny's back problem may be a big deal. Remember, back problems pretty much wasted 3 years of Jeff Gordon's career ('08-'10) so they are nothing to sneeze at. Besides, Denny is one of the biggest enigmas out there. His confidence seems to come and go depending on the week. His personality seems to change from week to week. He clearly has championship level talent, but keeps fighting these injuries at such a relatively young age, so who knows. 59. cja posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AJ Allmendinger has failed a random drug test by NASCAR. Sam Hornish will drive the No. 22 Dodge tonight at Daytona. 60. murb posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow... 61. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn murb, you beat me to it: wow..... 62. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Sam doesn't make it, then Shell/Pennzoil is SOL big time. I hope it isn't serious for AJ. 63. murb posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's a shame. Now I'm totally convinced he won't be back in that car next year. Maybe even this year. Hopefully this won't turn into another Mayfield situation. 64. murb posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Sam can't get there, I'm sure there are other drivers walking around in the garage looking for rides. I know a lot of the rideless guys go to tracks just to do that. If something positive does come from this, maybe somebody, whether it is Sam or someone else, could jump in that car and have an amazing run (example: Keselowski at the 2007 Memphis Truck race). 65. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HUGE, HUGE news on the Almendinger front, as mentioned. Now Penske needs someone to fill in the #22 car now (is that car cursed or what?). First the Kurt Busch situation from the off-season, and now this. I bet Penske wishes he would have hired David Ragan. And here I thought that Kurt Busch might have had a drug problem, but nobody saw this coming. A.J. Allmendinger's NASCAR career is officially over, in my view. Roger Penske is one guy you don't pull something like this on. Penske has always been, not only one of the most respected car owners, but one of the most repected men in the history of the sport, especially when it comes to dealing with people. Again, I reference what Penske did at the 1972 IndyCar race at Michigan when Merle Bettenhausen had the crash that cost him his left arm. When Penske learned of the severity of the situation, he withdrew Gary from the race so that he could be with his brother Merle. And Penske tore up the contract he had for Bobby Allison to run in the 1974 Indianapolis 500 because his wife Judy didn't want to go back becasue of what happened at Indy in 1973. Of course, as we know, Allison did race for Penske at Indy in 1975, when he also won three NASCAR races, four if you count the Daytona qualifying race, all in AMC Matadors. And while Sam Hornish will be in that car, presumably for the rest of the races in which there are no conflicting races with the Nationwide Series, for which he's in a tight-four-way battle for the title, Roger wil need another driver for that car for the conflicting races. Given that Penske will be running Fords next year, we could see a young up-and-coming driver in that car, possibly Trevor Bayne when he's not in the #21 car, orsomone else that may be a candidate for a full-time ride in that car next year if Penske doesn't move Hornish back to Cup full-time, but A.J. Allmendinger's career is now effectively over. 66. Eric posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The questions I have is was AJ high on drugs when he is the racetrack racing and how long has he been on drugs? I am asking about the length on drugs because if AJ was on drugs for a while and that tells me there is something wrong with NASCAR's drug testing system or AJ found a way to cheat the system before the last drug test. I brought up if how on drugs while racing because it is possible that AJ was pulling an Aaron Fike. Fike mentioned once in the past he got a top 5 in the truck series while being high on Heroin. What Fike did was dangerous to his follow competitors. 67. murb posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To change the subject, the Montoya-Jet Dryer crash video is now Daytona's version of Kenseth piling into the tires at Dover. Every time Daytona rolls around now, we are going to see this video numerous times. We better get used to it. 68. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Perhaps A.J. thought he'd give his sponsor some exposure by inhaling fumes of Shell... :P 69. John Royal posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Everybody smokes pot, it is just matter of avoiding getting caught. 70. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Is it safe to say the race at Kentucky last race may very well be A. J.'s last ever? 71. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *last week, I meant. 72. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.07.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR drivers wanted the drug testing policy, perhaps to give them peace of mind that they know that are racing against guys that aren't high on anything. 73. Eric posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Royal, Not everyone smokes pot. I never smoked pot. I never smoke in my life either or use tobacco either. I am a person who also has been against street drugs either. I don't smoke for multiple reasons including the fact relatives have died of stuff caused by smoking including cancer, or being hooked up to a respirator to breath. The other thing is not all NASCAR drivers currently smoke pot either. Dale Jr. smoked pot in the 1990's, but according to a 2001 playboy interview he stopped doing put before he became a Busch series driver and stopped taking shrooms at parties either. 74. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I for one avoid all drugs, so that makes 2 of us. I have close relatives who lives have been messed by various legal and illegal drugs. 75. murb posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Make it three of us, Nico. I've never smoked pot or done any drugs. I just don't see the reason to poison yourself like that. cjs made some great points about Penske and Allmendinger. It is going to be interesting what the outcome of all this is. 76. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I had said that letting Allmendinger go was the best thing for Richard Petty to do with the #43 car after last season, and I knew that hiring Allmendinger was a big mistake for Penske to make, but as I said, nobody had any idea that this was coming. Now the question becomes, who drives the #22 car starting at Loudon, NH? Again, my hunch is that Hornish will drive that car when the Cup and Nationwide Series' don't conflict, but then who drives that car when they do conflict? And with that becoming a Ford team next year, would we see a driver like Trevor Bayne in that car, especially if Hornish is still in the Nationwide Series championship hunt, or even Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. if he drops out of the title hunt, which I don't see happening. Another driver I still think could see some time in that car would be David Ragan. With sponsorship low on the #34 car, and with Ragan being competitve on occasion in that car, might we see Penske make another play for him? 77. jabber1990 posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I lost a good friend to bath salts, he blew his brains out everyone in my mothers family (exept my mother) smokes and I lost my grandfather to congestive heart failure because he smoked for many years, my grandmother has smoked for 50+ years. sorry didnt mean to ramble I am not opposed to legalising marijana, but I dont touch it, dont want to touch it I dont smoke either I am also 22, they say that young people do and experiment with drugs so there you go 78. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know I am probably going to get extreme hell for saying this, but...I've never really seen pot as evil as a lot of people have made it out to be. I am well aware I am probably going to be picked apart and called a major stoner for saying anything positive about pot, but...I really don't care. I've never actually done pot and I can listen to psychedelic music perfectly fine without drugs...I've always considered myself to be "naturally high". That said it would be pretty ill advised to drive a race car while high, just as it would be equally ill advised to drive while drunk. 79. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I should also add I probably would never smoke a joint even if I could because I have pretty bad asthma in real life. Cigarettes make me cough and unfortunately I've spent a lot of my time around my mother who smokes like a roaring freight train. I tried a cigarette once and it was one of the dumbest things I ever did because it made me cough my lungs out. I wouldn't be able to smoke a joint if I could have one due to my asthma. 80. Rusty posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske needs to fire Allmendinger. If he is going to fire a Cup champion and one of the most talented drivers in the garage for having a temper problem, he needs to kick one of the worst drivers on the circuit for having a drug problem. 81. Eric posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only drugs I take is stuff prescribe by my doctor, but I follow my doctors instructions on amount of times take a day and don't take multiple drugs at once. I also give a lot of time between the drugs to make sure I don't overdose myself since have to a pill for thyroid and a pill for acid reflex. My biggest fear always been abusing prescription medication and I always been careful as a result. 82. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Drivers, start your dadgum engines!" That's one of the more memorable starting commands for a race I've ever heard. 83. Rusty posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love Bobby Bowden. 84. Eric posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, I know what you mean with asthma and smoking. My asthma is one the reasons I never smoked. Heart problems running in both sides of a family is another besides cancer or being hooked to a respirator. 85. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can understand, Eric. Plus, medication can have horrible effects on certain people. I have Asperger's syndrome and ADHD in actual life and I've spent the better part of my life on medication. I once was prescribed a medication that caused me to violently hallucinate and have terrible muscle spasms. Although I've long since gone off that medication, I still have muscle spasms from time to time as a result...It's the same with illegal drugs, too. Drugs will have varying effects on different people. One person might try drugs and be just fine, and someone else might completely flip out and have their life permanently altered from taking drugs. 86. Eric posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What I meant by cancer and respirator is what happened to relatives that smoked and I don't have cancer or hooked on a respirator. 87. Karn Evil 9 posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So, Sam Hornish is gonna replace Allmendinger... 88. Rusty posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sam Hornish, Jr. arrived at Daytona minutes before strapping into the #22 car. 89. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was a major pothead in high school, but haven't touched the stuff in over 10 ears. It started as making sure I didn't fail any drug tests at work (get one of those on your record and you are screwed). At the time I felt it was harmless, and nothing truly bad came from it. But looking back, there is a lot from my teenage years I don't remember. Wish I didn't do it. 90. Cooper posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Elliott didn't fall like a rock.....yet. Lap 10 and he is running 3rd. Hey, not bad for an old man. 91. Spen posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Bill sure dropped like a rock, sixth to third. I had a feeling he might try something early in the race. There's two places Bill likes to run at a plate track. Up front, or at the back. 92. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, we suck at predictions. 93. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm gonna blame this thus far boring race on the cha$e. Too many people dropping back. 94. Rusty posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know I may sound biased because I was at the track and not in my living room, but the Nationwide race was WAY better. I loved the combo of pack and tango racing. 95. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somehow I foresee Kenseth and Biffle being 1-2 all night long... 96. LordLowe posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF why don't you get into the 22 car for the last half of the season I bet you and brad would have great chemistry 97. BREAKING: ALLMENDINGER #22 SUSPENDED posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) BREAKING NEWS: A.J. Allmendinger has been SUSPENDED from the #22 Penske DODGE indefinitely. It was a FAILED DRUG test that was the trigger. Is this legitimate or a mistake on NASCAR's part?! Stay tuned!!! I'm an insider, and I have plenty of details to share! 98. Who Will Be Allmendinger's Replacement?! posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) WOW!!! I'm hearing that NASCAR may REVERSE it's decision to BAN Austin Dillon from the racetrack and let him drive the 29, so Kenny Wallace can drive the 22. IF NOT, EXPECT MICHAEL MCDOWELL TO START THE 22. If so, PHIL PARSONS will drive the 98 in his place. 99. LordLowe posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This Race sucks big time they should have used the aero package that was used for the Pothole 500 and that years firecracker 400 I bet you it would have been a lot less boring then what we are seeing right now. 100. Paul posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race might be interesting if that outside line could actually move. Can't believe I'm saying this, but I miss the tandem racing. In a positive note, how about Bill Elliott, running in 3rd place at 57 years young. LIKE A BOSS! 101. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) What a joke, if there aren't any yellows Braceface will be happy to stay behind the 17 the entire race. 102. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I think Kenseth will lead 150+ laps tonight. 103. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Brad, the pit road jokes will continue. 104. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle and Kenseth are the only cars who can do anything on the outside line. 105. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm enjoying this race. But I would. 106. Spen posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Take two tires this time, Bill. 107. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sam Hornish destroyed a tire. 108. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How funny, I was just about to speculate on whether or not this race would be the first caution free race in ten years and the caution comes out. Awful funny how that always seems to happen... 109. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That could have been horrible. 110. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When I mention NASCAR sacrificing safety for excitement, that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Obviously we want excitement, but we still need to find a balance. That could've been a lot worse, but I'm very happy to see that no one was injured. 111. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch and Trevor Bayne have pretty serious damage. Very lucky that wasn't the big crash. 112. Anonymous posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What was Kurt thinking, trying to squeeze between Bayne and Almirola. 113. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt did that to himself. He has more damage tonight than he did last night, so I don't think that he will score a sweep. 114. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought it was an awesome move by Kurt Busch to get around McMurray in the tri-oval, but was then surprised that he didn't jump back in line behind the 43. Just got a little bit too greedy and then that's what happens! 115. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well at least Kurt tried something. Everyone else seems content to just ride and do nothing, which can be a smart stategy. But I would want to try and see if I could get to the front. 116. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really like the Jeff Gordon/Kyle Busch draft tandem. We've seen that work before, in this race last year, and the Bud Shootout this year. Also, I can't believe what Adam Alexander just said. "Dale Jr. likes it, taking it from behind!" C'mon man! 117. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) joey2448, I totally agree with that. Too many times guys have had a great opportunity to jump to the outside and just stayed in line. 118. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He was trying, too hard that is. That's part of the reason why he's wrecked so many of Finch's cars this year. If he'd just let things play out like he did at Sonoma then they'd get more solid runs and finishes. 119. Spen posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill just gained about six posistions by going up the middle. So much for not being comfortable in traffic! 120. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) woohoo, the pack racing fans just got what they wanted. 121. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's chances of making the chase=over 122. Spen posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn it! 123. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson's bad luck at Daytona continues, glad he's okay. 124. Karn Evil 9 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank you for jinxing Awesome Bill, TNT... 125. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Microcosm of Jeff Gordon's season, how he was minding his own business and gets taken out. 126. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Elliott spun hard into Wile E Coyote Jeff Gordon. 127. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, all the guys I was pulling for just wrecked! Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, Bill Elliott...oh well. Should be exciting from here on out! 128. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one who thinks Jeff might finish outside the top 20 in points this season? 129. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle deserves a penalty, as he was not on pit road when the red light came on and he went ahead and made his stop. 130. Pagani Zonda R posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the worst excuse for a race I have ever seen! Why do you guys run 160 laps. What a waste of petrol!!!!!!!!!!!! I was actually looking forward to this but I dont even need to finish the race. I know nothing about NASCAR and I guarentee either the 16 or 17 will win. this is with 30 laps left in the actual race. YOU ARE A GIANT BEER SWILLING HILL BILLY IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCH THIS WHOLE RACE!!!!!!!!!!! Mark my words 16 or 17 wins!!!!!! 131. Roger posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the 2010 Daytona 500 Carl Edwards said on his radio he was willing to push Eliott to the win during a caution. You can listen to the audio on Race View if you have it. Elliott made a mistake and went up the track when he should have stayed on the bottom. So Edwards was going to help him and did say he thought him and Elliott could win. The proof is in the audio. Tonight Elliott showed what I've always known. Give the man equipment and he will run with the best of them. He was coming on before that accident.....I'm just glad he shut all the naysayers up tonight about mixing it up.... 132. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @DSFF Bill was to to Jeff what the truck that comes out of the painted tunnel was to Wile E 133. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sad to see Bill Elliott caught up in that. I've become a big fan of Turner Motorsports, they ran well tonight and I can't wait for them to move up full time. Also, whilst I don't agree with penalizing 16, 17 and others for pitting whilst the pits are closed, rules are rules. Kurt Busch, Watkins Glen, 2006? 134. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only Biffle was penalized because he actually made a pit stop. Kenseth drove straight through pit road and was not penalized. If Biffle did what Kenseth did there would have been no issue. 135. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How the hell is Jeff Gordon's car still able to run in the draft after the hit he took from Bill Elliott in that crash? 136. Thank God I dont drive a suburu posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) THIS RACE blowss 137. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #130 - Pagani Zonda R: I have no idea what you're talking about, I think this race is rather exciting. Obviously, the best guy probably won't win, and it seems the high line can't ever catch the low line, but I've been hooked from the beginning. Jeff Gordon may have been involved in that last crash, but he's still out there mixing it up on the lead lap. Don't count him out yet! We may see him do what Kurt Busch did last night in the Nationwide race! 138. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Only Biffle was penalized because he actually made a pit stop. Kenseth drove straight through pit road and was not penalized. If Biffle did what Kenseth did there would have been no issue." Ah, good. Didn't catch that, but happy to see. Of course, the 16 and 17 have found each other again, so let's see what happens from here. Go Marcos! 139. Pagani builds unreliable crap for smeats posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pagani Zonda R is a moron, probably watched the ALMS with the 3 car LMP1 class at LRP today or Formula DRS 140. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's the big one folks... 141. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And we have our big one... 142. Wow you waited two hours for that!!! posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really ??? 143. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good job Denny! 144. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now the Ambiguously Gay duo is back infront. 145. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Either Greg or Matt will win this one now. 146. JG24FanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gotta love Gordon avoiding 5 cars in the big one,he may be the best at avoiding close wrecks, but he's also one of the unluckiest at Plate racing too. 147. joey 2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #139 What are smeats? and have you actually got any experience with a pagani? how do you know whether they are reliable? I think they make amaxing cars 148. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, that could have been much worse, it was setting up for some guys to have hard hits. The way Hamlin spun right back into the pack, it wasn't as bad as I thought. NASCAR ought to put the red flag out right now so we don't have a GWC. Jeff Gordon barely missed that, I think. He might get a top-10. 149. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I believe Smeat= Small Johnson/Pecker/Bird. 150. JG24FanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) anybody ready for the first Daytona sweep since Bobby in 1982? 151. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's plate racing. Its impossible to "fix" any problem with it without creating new ones. Denny was just trying to make the move he had to make. I don't like Denny, but I don't blame him. Did these drivers just miss Talladega completely? They all still say they wanna be 2nd on the white flag. Did they not see what Brad did? 152. myothercarisanM535i posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Pagani Zonda R is a moron, probably watched the ALMS with the 3 car LMP1 class at LRP today or Formula DRS" Don't stoop down to his level and make equally ridiculous and unnecessary statements. Anyway, I actually think the 16 and 17 are what will make this race exciting. When somebody else is clearly faster than you, that's when you need to take a chance and try anything you can to beat them. If they win, they deserve it. If they don't, then someone will have driven a hell of a race to get around them. 153. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two hours to watch Kenseth/Biffle 1-2. Hopefully that isn't the case, but I bet it will be. 154. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really hate how most of the contenders are typically eliminated at the end of these races, just like Talladega. 155. Nick posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OMG!!!!!!!!! 156. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WOW 157. jabber1990 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) what the hell just happened? 158. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. 159. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Surprised Tony won. 160. JG24FanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I gotta say this was epic as hell!! Gordon made it into the Top 10? 161. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats Pagani Zonda R, THE 16 OR 17 did not win!!!!!! Idiot. 162. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR.com says Gordon finished 12th. Not bad for being involved in 3 crashes. It also says Michael Waltrip, Bobby Labonte, and David Reutimann got top 10s. 163. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I honestly have alot to say and none of it is good. So ill just self moderate myself and go away. 164. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's four Coke 400 wins for Tony! 165. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2007 Daytona 500 all over again. INCREDIBLE save by Jeff Burton in turn two on final lap! When that happened, the two Roush Fords separated, reacting to what was going on behind them. Stewart managed to get ahead of them, and with the lost momentum from the leaders, the entire field began stacking up in turn four when they reached the leaders, and that resulted in the wreck. WOW!!! I know people are gonna say it was a bogus finish, but they can't say it wasn't exciting! 166. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burton actually ended up getting 2nd place. 167. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cool finish, but thank god we're back to real racing next weekend. 168. Pagani Zonda R posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anybody who watched the first 110 laps is the idiot That race was a pile of shit, they should chop off the spoilers and remove the plates so the drivers can prove who has the biggest balls, instead of the best luck. I was almost right. In 1983 i could never have been that close to guessing correctly. Admit it currently NASCAR sucks!!!! 169. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why did anybody even give post #130 a dignified response? 170. murb posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Tony. Hell of a save by my man Burton there!!! And he came back for a 2nd. Glad to see after the year and a half he's had. I was pulling for anybody but a Roush car there at the end (nothing against Greg or Matt, I just don't like Jack Roush and I don't like domination). So I guess I'm happy with the outcome. Overall, just an okay race. Not bad, not good. 171. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That may have been a season saving race for the 24. 172. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about Mikey, Bobby Labonte and David Reutimann in the Top Ten. Also great run for Jeff Burton, that's his best finish since Talladega last fall. 173. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was an exciting finish, except for all the drivers who got torn up in those last two wrecks. Great win by Tony. Glad to see all the drivers are okay after that wreck because some guys like Harvick and Junior both hit really hard, and I think Almirola hit the inside wall pretty hard. 174. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 169, I really should not have. Sadly as racing-reference gets popular, it also attracts more trolls and idiots. 175. JG24FanForever posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see this race being compared to the 2007 Daytona 500,I say that Gordon's race was almost an exact duplicate of this one as well. 176. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why does it seem that Joey Logano always ends up with really good finishes in races that have endings like this? Tony Stewart seems to be the present day David Pearson at Daytona in that he wins the summer race a lot but hasn't broken through in the 500 yet. 177. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see the comparison as well. First half of both races was fairly dull and unexciting...the second halves were...crazy, to say the least. I think the '07 Daytona 500 was better, although I still wish Mark Martin could have won that race. 178. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It might take a while for the official results to appear because of the carnage on the final lap. 179. Spen posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go Burton! I had a funny feeling that Bobby would have a good finish this race, but I didn't predict him for a top ten because I only wanted one 'wasted' prediction, and I gave it to Bill. Reutimann's was a total shocker, though. If I were Turner, I think I'd run Bill for two more races this year. The Brickyard and Homestead. Both tracks where he's got a solid chance at getting a 6th-15th place finish, and where there is far less reliance on dumb luck. 180. Cooper posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The first big one with about 10 to go looked exactly like the big wreck 10 years ago in the Pepsi 400. Almost carbon copy. If you haven't seen it check it out. The big wreck on the last lap looked exactly like the wreck 5 years ago at the Daytona 500. These guys always wreck in the same spots...exiting the tri-oval and exiting turn 4. Every year. I loved the race tonight. Whether other people like it, they can speak for themselves. I was entertained. BK spins out with 13 to go and goes back to 31st. 10 laps later Top 10....That's Daytona. 181. Dave#38Fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) aj had a dui a few years ago. a one time deal i can forgive, but a repeat offense i can't. now, say that the rumors about obama wanting to legalize pot are true, does that mean that nascar will have to reinstate him in a year or so, because if pot was the illegal substance that caused him to be suspended, they can't keep him suspended because the substance is now legal can they? of course, it might be a moot point, since i doubt anyone will want to hire a.j. now. he was always better in open wheels anyway, indycar might be a good option for him. 182. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I enjoyed the race, except for the second to last wreck when Kyle got taken out. It was a fun race, even if the first half didn't involve much passing near the front. The finish would have been really incredible without the wreck exiting the tri-oval. There was Tony, the Hendrick cars of Kahne and Earnhardt, Jr., the Gibbs cars of Kyle and Denny, and the dominant Roush cars of Kenseth and Biffle all together with a shot at the win and all trying to position themselves to win. 183. Schroeder51 posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cooper...is the crash you're talking about from ten years ago that resembles the Denny Hamlin crash in this race one that involved Dale Jarrett? If it is, then I know what you're talking about. 184. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @181: It could be anything from Cocaine or Meth to Vitamin pills (a touring car series had this problem once), not going to jump to conclusions. 185. Anonymous posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No matter what anyone says about that race or about how many of the contenders got taken out, the battle for the win was not determined by a wreck. I enjoyed that race a lot after lap 80. Great job by Stewart to outrace the two dominant cars. He definitely earned that win. 186. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yea in the 2002 Pepsi 400, Jarrett got turned around in the short chute heading into turn one, and spun right in front of the field like Hamlin tonight, and a few other guys hit hard as they spun up the track into the wall, just like ten years ago. When Biffle started spinning off turn four at the finish, I though he was going to save it, as Harvick almost had him turned back in the right direction. I thought, "No, they can't save it twice in one lap, can they???"....But they crashed. 187. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was amazing how much of a shot Kahne gave Tony on the last lap. Once he took the lead after the Roush cars ended up deep in the field, Tony made all the right moves and got rewarded with the win, which broke his tie with Buck Baker for 14th on the all-time wins list and he has a shot to win three more races and join the exclusive 50 win club. 188. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I was wrong about several things about this race. First Bill Elliott was a lot more competitve than I thought he'd be for longer than I thought, though part of it was the single file the line got into early, as there was very little action in this race for the first 300 miles. In fact, there were only about four on-track lead changes fo the entire 400-mile distance, making this one of the dullest races at Daytona I've seen in years. So for those that thought that Elliott would be competitve, I apologize because I thought he'd drop straight to the back, and probably would have had the racing been tense as usual, but when it got single-file early, Elliott was content to stay up there. Also, NASCAR has to do something about this overheating situation, because that was a part of why no one was willing to make any moves, because to make a move, you have to get close to somebody, and they can't risk that because of the overheating issues. Another part of the problem is that the inside lane was clearly faster, except when Kenseth and Biffle got hooked up. Other than that, Daytona was essentially a one-groove track, in that if you got on the outside, you were going backwards. Also, what on Earth was Kurt Busch thinking with 69 laps to go, charging like a bull in a china shop when there was clearly no room, causing a wreck that involved Trevor Bayne, Bobby Labonte, and others. At least Busch got the worst of it. The other bizarre incident happened at the head of the pit lane, and capsulizes Jeff Gordon's season to a tee. When Jimmie Johnson got run into entering the pits (by Michael Waltrip, I believe), the caution light was immediately turned on. For some unexplained reason, Elliott and Regan Smith either didn't see the caution or couldn't get slowed down fast enough and spun out themselves. But when the 19th place car spins out the third place car from behind, combined with all the other crazy things that have happened to Gordon this year, you know that he's jinxed in some way. The Andrettis didn't even have things like this happen to them at Indy. And great runs by some forgotten veterans, like Waltrip, along with Bobby Labonte, and David Reutimann, who all posted finishes of 11th or better, topped off by Jeff Burton's second place finish. I don't think anyone's been harder on Burton than I have, but Burton deserves kudos for finishing second and moving up to 18th in points. And with Loudon, quite possibly his best track, coming up (he's the only four-time winner there), this could be Burton's big shot for a victory, but he needs more runs like this to save his job, I think, especially with another high profile ride (Penske's #22 car) having opened up. And finally, Tony Stewart joined some elite company, as he became just the third four-time winner of the Firecracker 400, joining Cale Yarborough (1967-'68, '76, and '81) and David Pearson (1961, which was 250 miles, 1972-'74, and '78) as four-time winners of the event. But like Pearson, who won this event four times before ever winning the Daytona 500, Stewart has yet to bag the big one at Daytona. 189. murb posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now that I think about it, this was probably the best plate race of 2012 so far. The 500 was clearly a disaster on multiple levels for multiple reasons. And Talladega seemed really bland. I'm just happy that we're going back to some good racing on a good track next week with Loudon. Unfortunately, after that, we'll have to suffer through the Crown Royal Presents The Your Name Here 400 at the Brickyard Presented By Allstate, KFC, Geico, and Extenze. I too remember the 2002 Pepsi 400 crash with Dale Jarrett. The crash in this race with Hamlin did look a lot like it. Plus, in the '02 wreck, Joe Nemechek (I think) took a shot to the outside wall that looked an awful lot like Ambrose's hit to the wall in tonight's wreck. 190. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Tony was done when Kahne got hit by a sideways Burton, but Kasey had just given Tony the shot he needed to get by the Roush cars which had just gotten separated. It was amazing how the cars separated a little bit on the last restart and all came back together in the last turn and all hell broke loose after that. 191. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Given the circumstances (a ridiculously strong inside lane and cooling issues), this was a very good race from the second half on. If NASCAR would just lighten up the cooling restrictions this package would be perfect. Would have to agree this was the best plate race of 2012 192. murb posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I'm pretty sure it was Truex who ran over Jimmie coming into the pits. But it might have been Michael. I do know that it was one of them. Their cars had similar paint jobs tonight, so it was hard to tell them apart the whole race. 193. 18fan posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, it was Truex that ran over Jimmie coming into the pits to cause that wreck. 194. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the reason the Roush cars separated on the final lap when Burton got sideways in turn two was due to Stewart hugging Biffle's right side quarter panel. Much like what Carl Edwards did to the Kurt Busch/Montoya tandem on the final lap of the 2011 Daytona 500, Tony pulled right beside Biffle, which slowed him. The reason is because the air is deflected off of Tony's front end and hits Biffle's rear spoiler, and the resulting drag slowed the Biff. Whether or not Tony meant to do that, that was the reason the Roush cars disconnected. 195. Anonymous posted: 07.07.2012 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A whole lot of people laying judgment down on AJ Allmendinger without knowing all the facts. Did anyone even remotely consider the possibility that this was a false positive? He has 72 hours to take a repeat test. Maybe it was some strong cold medicine, we don't know. That's why you always get a second chance, these things aren't 100%. And if you ever have a job where you have to take one of these tests and you fail without doing anything wrong, you'll be glad you have the right to take it again and clear your name. But good for all of you for immediately assuming the guy was high on illegal drugs. That's really classy. 196. Schroeder51 posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #29 of Harvick should be listed as out of the race due to an accident. 197. Spen posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR's drug tests have never been proven wrong. 198. David posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @195 Unfortunately, if his B sample fails as well, he is suspended indefinitely. 199. 18fan posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @194, Kyle Busch also did that a couple of times tonight, including once when he made contact with one of the Roush cars, I forget which one he hit. 200. JG24FanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 4 straight Top 12's for Gordon, 6 Top 13's in the last 7 races. 3 accidents involved in with a Top 12 is epic, especially with Jimmie J DNFing. 201. 10andJoe posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) -Michael McDowell's 100th Cup start 202. JG24FanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart is The newest "King of Daytona" 4 time winners(no qualifying races included) The King-10 Cale Yarborough-8 David Pearson-6 Bobby Allison-6 Jeff Gordon-6 Fireball Roberts-4 Bill Elliott-4 Dale Jarrett-4 Tony Stewart-4 Stewart is the only 4 time non 500 winner. Stewart has broken his tie with Buck Baker in career wins and pulls within one of The Great Herb Thomas,and also pushes his 2 year win total to a league leading eight. All eight wins have come in the last 28 races. 203. Anonymous posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #98 went to the back for a driver change (Bliss to McDowell) 204. 10andJoe posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also to the back: Michael McDowell (#98) driver change 205. JG24FanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 25 with the most Plate DNF's 1.Joe Nemechek 26 2.Ken Schrader 24 3.Derrike Cope 20 4.Bobby Labonte 20 5.Michael Waltrip 20 6.Sterling Marlin 18 7.Terry Labonte 17 8.Dale Jarrett 16 9.Jimmy Spencer 16 10.John Andretti 15 11.Rusty Wallace 15 12.Dave Blaney 14 13.Geoffrey Bodine 14 14.Jeff Gordon 14 15.Mark Martin 14 16.Greg Sacks 14 17.Jeff Purvis 13 18.Ricky Rudd 13 19.Johnny Benson, Jr. 12 20.Jeff Burton 12 21.Jimmie Johnson 12 22.Ryan Newman 12 23.Kenny Wallace 12 24.Brett Bodine 11 25.Wally Dallenbach, Jr. 11 it looks like Johnson is on a record pace for DNF's in plate races. 206. 10andJoe posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Note to webmaster: the car-owner link for Steve Turner isn't working 207. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 07.08.2012 - 1:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) In regards to Allmendinger... It seems like a lot of people don't realize that a failed drug doesn't have to mean illegal drugs. NASCAR's banned substance list includes several ordinary medications that you could pick up at your local CVS along with countless prescription medications that have zero effect on your personality or driving a car, should you actually drive while they're working. If he's taken a sleeping aid sometime recently one night, he fails the drug test. Maybe it's a prescription medication that he didn't go to NASCAR about. Maybe it's an illegal drug. We don't know yet, so there's no need to write the guy off as a druggy immediately. Remember that when Greg Biffle hurt himself away from the track fairly recently, he openly spoke about how he couldnt even buy an ordinary pain medication at a store without risking failing NASCAR's test. AJ could have failed for something that was very innocent, but the majority of people don't recognize this and just jump on him like he's a criminal when we don't even have a clue as to what he's guilty of. 208. Rob posted: 07.08.2012 - 1:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Clean racing until the end, A.Js career is probably over, sounds like another shane hmiel or jeremy mayfield to me, also upset Bill Elliot got taken out. He was running upfront most of the night in a one-off and got clipped in one of the last accidents. 209. 1995z71 posted: 07.08.2012 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not sure if the #49 actually start & parked. He kept coming back on the race track but started smoking every time. The scoring regularly had Kasey Kahne 11th. Thus giving David Reutimann a top 10. 210. BON GORDON posted: 07.08.2012 - 1:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12th place means nothing to me. Yea I guess it coulda shoulda been worse but he needs wins and solid Top 5s. And its not good when Burton, Logano, Newman, and Kahne all finished ahead of him. Its just another upsetting finish in what coulda been a win. And its also rediculous that he only has 2 Top 5s in 18 races. This season blows. Id rather him retire than watch him go through this hell. Jeff Gordon will not make the chase in 2012 nor will he win a race. Im sorry to sound pesimistic but Im also a realist. It looks bad. I'll never settle for garbage 12th and neither should Gordon. I know 1990's Gordon wouldn't no matter what the circumstances. 211. 10andJoe posted: 07.08.2012 - 2:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >The scoring regularly had Kasey Kahne 11th. Thus giving David Reutimann a top 10. The yellow flag coming out really scrambled things. When there' a wreck off turn 4 on the last lap they should just let things go. 212. JG24FanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is just a little tid-bit from tonight,but Tony Stewart pulled quite an impressive thing in this race by surpassing Big E in Top 5 finishes from a starting position of 30th or worse,and tying Matt Kenseth and Kevin Harvick. Notables: Jeff Burton-19 Bobby Labonte-14(?) Matt Kenseth-13 Kevin Harvick-13 Tony Stewart-13 Dale Earnhardt-12 Dale Jarrett-11 Ricky Rudd-9 Mark Martin-8 Kurt Busch-8 Kyle Busch-8 Jeff Gordon-7 Dale Jr.-7 Carl Edwards-7 Denny Hamlin-7 Terry Labonte-5 Jimmie Johnson-5 Benny Parsons-4 Darrell Waltrip-4 Rusty Wallace-4 Richard Petty-3 James Hylton-2 David Pearson-2 Bobby Allison-2 Curtis Turner-1 Lee Petty-1 Buddy Baker-0(no surprise) Cale Yarborough-0(Zero!!) I can't do this anymore after posting Bobby Labonte with 14 I lost all respect for this list, even though it is kinda something. 213. JG24FanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last post on this race for all the disheartened Gordon fans: Top 12 finishes all-time(including Loudon) Top 5 1. Mark Martin-50 2. Dale Earnhardt-42(his final race was a 12th) 2. Jeff Gordon-42 4. Dale Jarrett-40 5. Sterling Marlin-36 For a Gordon fan this has to be the last straw in the goofiest,most idiotic season Gordon has had and may ever have. 214. JG24FanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^that's meant to be all-time Top 12's at Plate Races since 1988. 215. Anonymous posted: 07.08.2012 - 4:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell of a run for the old school guys (Waltrip, The Labontes, Elliot). Great race. 216. Rusty posted: 07.08.2012 - 4:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think NASCAR needs to find a way to get the Cup races to end up like the Nationwide races. In Nationwide we had a great mixture of two car tango and pack racing, here we just had drivers literally doing nothing for good 80 laps because they couldn't actually make any moves to the front without overheating the engine. All the wrecking at the end didn't make this exciting to me, I mean it is a million times better than Ketucky last week, but NASCAR needs to do more tweaking on the plate racing. Both times at Daytona this year, I thought the Nationwide guys put on a better show. 217. Anonymous posted: 07.08.2012 - 5:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch and Kevin Harvick should listed as "crash." 218. Ed posted: 07.08.2012 - 8:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon should be added to the list of cars involved in the last lap crash, he even said in his interview that he got a piece of it. 219. Benny posted: 07.08.2012 - 9:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) now that I've thought about it, I think tandem and pack racing mixed together is more exciting. plate racing this year has not been as exciting with the cup series like it has been with the nationwide series. 220. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 10:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A couple of things JG24FanForever. First, why did you say that you lost respect for the list of top 5 runs from a starting position of 30th or worse when Bobby Labonte was listed wth 14 of them? First, I remember that at least two or three of them were actually wins, including starting 37th in the 2000 Southern 500, and at least one of his Atlanta wins came from back there, if not two of them. Also, you mentioned that this race (especially with the incident with Bill Elliott at the head of the pits) has to be the last straw for the goofiest season he's ever had. I'll take it a step further. His 2012 season is the goofiest ANY driver has ever had, bar none. Like I said, the Andrettis didn't have this much bad luck at Indy, in terms of crazy things happening, and they've had a curse on them there since 1970, certainly 1982. When you're running third, and the 19th place car takes you out from behind, it's obvious that you're jinxed. I just wonder if this has something to do with his 85 wins, as if the racing gods are saying that he's not going to win any more, and that when he gets into a position to win that something's going to happen to take that opportunity away from him. And Rob, what happened that took Elliott out of the race was his own doing. Elliott just came into the pits too hot and spun his car out and took several top contenders, including Gordon, out of contention. That's his own doing, not the fault of someone else. In the old days, you'd never see him make a mistake like that. He was always one of those drivers that you could count on to never make a mistake. I'm just speculating, but at 56 years of age and not having driven more than a handful of races the last two years, could he have lost some of his reflexes due to age and inactivity? 221. Sidney Crosby posted: 07.08.2012 - 10:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Next year's race should be called the Pepsi 400 again. oh. And Jeff Gordon was involved in 3 wrecks 222. JG24FanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 11:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872 I was just kidding about losing respect for the list because of B. Lab having 14, I just didn't indicate that in my post,and yes Gordon is having the most ridiculous luck in at least the history of every great driver that lived(see Alberto Ascari)that has ever raced in either Cup or F1 but last night was good fun and I didn't get angry about it,mainly because Jimmie Johnson was even more unlucky! and Gordon beating him on the track counts for something. 223. JG24FanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 11:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) and BTW, how was Gordon not involved in that last crash?!? he was running all over the #93 and nearly spun out, but Gordon proved his elite reflexes and even better car control and got through it for his 42nd career Plate Top 12 tying Earnhardt for 2nd all-time. 224. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.08.2012 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I can't do this anymore after posting Bobby Labonte with 14 I lost all respect for this list, even though it is kinda something." Makes sense though, the guys towards the bottom of that list qualified up front more often than not. 225. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 12:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well JG24FanForever, I wonder if Johnson has inherited Daytona's version of the Andretti jinx at Indy, because besides from a third place finish in the Firecracker in 2009, he has done next-to-nothing at Daytona since his 2006 Daytona 500 win. And that win does have something in common with Mario Andretti's 1969 Indianapolis 500 win. More than one, in fact. First, it came in a back-up car that started near the front due to unusual circumstances. But what I was thinking about in relation was that the 2006 Daytona 500 was Johnson's fifth start in the Daytona 500, much like the 1969 race at Indy was Mario's fifth start there, and you wonder whether or not Gordon has inherited that luck, because he hasn't done much better at Daytona since his last 500 win in 2005. 226. MStall41 posted: 07.08.2012 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm still not sold on the Nationwide package. There's still way more tandeming going on then there should be. I agree that the NW race this weekend was AWESOME, but the tandem was still a bit too effective. That made the NW race lose something in my eyes. I thought the Cup and NW race were pretty close in terms of how good they were, Cup just needs a little more cooling (to facilitate more passing) and NW needs less cooling (to lessen excess tangoing). Both packages are ok for now, but they do need some tweaking. True pack racing always beats out the mixed tango/pack racing. 227. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again MStall41, they need to make it so that the bumpers don't line up. I still say that's how you get rid of the tandem drafting, especially in the corners. Let them push as long as they want to down the straights, but make it so they can't push in the corners. Remember that this didn't even become an issue until the new car came out, because the bumpers never lined up until then, but they do now. Make the front bumpers 3-6 inches lower than the rear bumpers. I guarantee you won't see any pushing in the corners then, because the pushed car will have its rear tires off the ground. As for the overheating issue, just let them run the cooling they way they did before this year. After all, it's dangerous when the drivers have to spend more time looking at he gauges than they can on the track ahead of them. However, that's one place where the Ford engines have a HUGE advantage, the cooling system. They can run closer together for longer, hence they're much faster in straight line speeds than the other makes, and that's one reason why the outside line only worked if the Fords were hooked up leading it. The Fords have a 2-3 MPH speed advantage in racing conditions because of the cooling system and being able to stay hooked together longer because of it. It doesn't show in qualifying, hence the Chevrolets being able to stay up there in qualifications, but they just can't race close together like the Fords can, and it's all because of the superior cooling system the Ford engines have. 228. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't know what to make of the Dinger. Want to hear exactly what it was they found. Anyone else find it odd we haven't heard a peep from him? Good idea or not? It is also odd that he has been in NASCAR since 2007 and is just now failing a test. Did this stressful season push him over the edge? I'll be interested to see. 229. MStall41 posted: 07.08.2012 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the bumper lining up issue will be fixed in the 2013 cars cjs, and once that is fixed I think tandems will be a thing of the past. Thats why I've been ok with the plate races this year, they've been pretty good considering that the current plate package is just a temporary fix until the 2013 car comes out. 230. Baker posted: 07.08.2012 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #29 When I'm right I'm right haha. Nice drive by Tony and good to see him pass Buck Baker on the All Time Wins list. 231. Dinger22 posted: 07.08.2012 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Do you guys know that feeling when you're just settling down to watch a NASCAR race, and you've been looking forward to it all day long, only to find out your favorite driver got suspended for substance abuse while you're watching the pre-race, and he was also starting for your fantasy team that night but it's too late to change your lineup? You guys know what I'm talking about, right? Because that totally happens all the time, I'm sure all of you can relate. 232. Anonymous posted: 07.08.2012 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Casey Mears and the #13 team had five Top 20 finishes all of last year...this race marks their 4th straight this season 233. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay MStall41, but the overheating thing still needs to be addressed. You cant have drivers racing in tight quarters at 200 MPH be worried more about their gauges rather than what's in front of them, or beside them. The overheating issue has created a safety hazard without NASCAR realiziing it. And of course, the situation that caused last night's incident at the head of the pits has been a problem for many years, and that is the driver's inability to see through the car in front of them. That incident was caused by whoever was behind Jimmie Johnson not being able to see Johnson waving his hand, telling the driver behind him that he was going to pit. And this has happened to Johnson before. I remember a race at Talladega where Johnson was hit from behind by Casey Mears, then a Hendrick Motorsports teammate because he coldn't see Johnson signaling to him that he was going to pit. NASCAR once banned tinted windshields for this very reason back in the mid 80s. I think NASCAR may need to start looking into this again. And as for the bump drafting and pushing. Again, I'm okay with doing it in a straight line. They've been doing that for decades. In fact, Richard Petty hit the back of A.J. Foyt's car so hard on the straights during one part of the 1974 Daytona 500, that it actualy damaged Foyt's rear bumper. And Cale Yarborough was noted for doing the same thing. That's how he pulled (or pushed) Donnie Allison so far away from their pursuers late in the 1979 Daytona 500. So the art of bump drafting, or pushing in the draft has been around for decades. It's just that they always did it in a straight line until recent years. And Anonymous (#232), finishing in the top 20 is not the acheivement it was just a few years ago, since the level of cometition is the lowest it's been in about 15-18 years, and it's even less of a feat in a restrictor plate race, where all you have to do is finish a race withut incident and you can finish in the top 20, and possibly in the top ten. Just look at Bobby Labonte last night, and older brother Terry was possibly headed for a top ten as well if not for a late pit stop on the last caution when he was running 12th in Frank Stoddard's car. 234. MStall41 posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh make no mistake Cjs, they most definitely need to fix the overheating issue. I'd like to see them relax the cooling regulations for Dega, but not to the point that the NW car are at. I think slightly more lenient cooling regs would provide the racing we saw in the Bud Shootout, which was great. 235. Anonymous posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It would of been awesome to Terry Labonte score a great finish. Two top twenties in 3 starts this year isn't bad for him though, especially in that #32 car. To an underfunded single car team, I still think top twenties are something to lay foundation. That top ten that Bobby Labonte got may have been flukey, but i'm sure his team will take it and build off of it. Obviously the same cannot be said for powerhouse teams. 236. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think NASCAR needs to push toward a more 04ish front bumper. Remember about 10 years ago when those Dodge noses looked like shovels, but the Fords looked like steamrollers at the opposite extreme. 237. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, those Dodge noses from 2005-'07 were hideous, and not even Kasey Kahne's great 2006 could hide that, but the rest of the noses had the appearance of shovels, as in they could shovel dirt. Those cars you're referring to were getting to be more like sports cars than stock cars. What NASCAR should have done was to stop allowing teams to run different nose pieces at different kinds of tracks, which they started doing around 2003. For instance, the front bumpers at the plate tracks for all the makes went straight up and down so they could mash the rear bumper of the car in front of them, but at most other places they were sloped in such a way that they actually shoveled air like it was dirt. NASCAR had to put a stop to that, and they did with the new car, but created more problems. And plate racing in those years was exactly what it has been this year, and that is follow-the-leader racing with nobody able to make any moves. 238. Baker posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't have time to do the searching but I know some of you are stat masters, so I ask if anyone knows what the best average finish for all 4 plate races in 1 season looks like? Right now Kenseth has gone 1, 3, 3 for an average of 2.33. I believe him and Biffle will be the dominate force at Dega again if NASCAR doesn't make a rule change and he could break the record. 239. Baker posted: 07.08.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I looked up Davey Allison because he's my all time favorite and in 1988 he went 2nd in the 500 then 1st and 3rd at Dega with another 3rd at Daytona, so if that is not the record someone had a fantastic plate season. Davey's average finish that year was an incredible 2.25 Can anyone find better? 240. Baker posted: 07.08.2012 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy blazes Davey had a 7 race streak of 1-1-3-2-1-3-3 1987 Dega 1st Daytona 1st Dega 3rd 1988 Daytona 2nd Dega 1st Daytona 3rd Dega 3rd I don't know if even Dale Earnhardt had a 7 race run that great on plate tracks. 241. LordLowe posted: 07.08.2012 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Moving on to Indycar racing it seems that This Ryan Hunter Reay is catching fire all of a sudden and Will Power is becoming the choke artist of the Indycar Series. 242. Baker posted: 07.08.2012 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Davey Allison 29 starts at Daytona and Talladega and 13 times finished in the Top 3. Crazy great record. I'd have to say that got to be one of, if not, the best Top 3 % of all time at the "big tracks". Okay I'm done with my Davey blast from the past moment :) 243. Daniel posted: 07.08.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #220, Actually, Logano lost it and got into Elliott causing Bill to spin out. 244. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes Baker, I can find better. Remember Dale Earnhardt, Sr. back in 1990? Well we all know he dominated the Daytona 500, only to have a cut tire on the final lap. But he had lapped so many cars on that hot day that he still finished fifth, and he won the other three plate races that years, so his finishes of 5-1-1-1 add up to an average finish of 2.0 for those four races that year. That will forever be the gold standard for plate greatness for a season. And Davey's second win at Talladega was in 1989, not 1988. Phil Parsons won that race in 1988, his only NASCAR Cup series win, beating Bobby Allison, who was searching for his 86th win that day, and a record fourth in that particular race. 245. Baker posted: 07.08.2012 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, you're right about Davey. I think my eyes were bouncing back and forth between the Start and Finish column because about half my stats were wrong and half right when I went back and looked. Sorry for the bad eyes I'm doing this from a phone haha. I still think if Kenseth can win at Dega his 1-3-3-1 would rank right up there with Dale Senior because of all Top 3s and Dale would have had a 5th. 246. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Baker, the only reason Dale, Sr. had a fifth in the 1990 Daytona 500 instead of a restrictor plate sweep in 1990 was that piece of bellhousing from Rick Wilson's car he ran over on the backstretch on the final lap. But finishing positions are finishing positions and Dale was fifth in that race, not first. And Daniel, I didn't realize watching the race that Joey Logano was in that incident, as well. I knew Gordon, Elliott, Regan Smith, and a couple of others were involved, but I didn't realize Logano was in that too. 247. AFrame43 posted: 07.08.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Excuses, excuses, cjs. Doesn't matter if he ran over a piece of debris or crashed. "Buts" don't cut it. 248. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.08.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Truck bmupers don't line up and they tandem draft (see last year) They should have just left it along and go away on its own instead of forcing it to go away (manufactered style which i thought NASCAR fans hated anything manufactered). N'wide package is the best, give the ability to push others for a while be can pack race when needed. The only thing this Cup package lets the drivers do it just ride around for 90% of the race then wreck the final 10% of the race, while trying not to blow up during the process. Also since the British Open Championship is coming up shortly (and i love playing the 'what if' game), let see who wins the majors that Tiger Woods has won during his carrer if he was never around: The Masters: 1997: Tom Kite wins by 1 shot and FINALLY wins the Green Jacket. (2 Majors) 2001: David Duval wins the Green Jacket. Goes along with winning the British Open later in the year (2 Majors) 2002: Retief Goosen wins the Green Jacket, goes along with his 2 US Opens 2005: Chris DiMarco wins his first Major. US Open: 2000: Migual Angel Jimenez and Ernie Els are in a playoff (take your pick) 2002: Phil wins The US Open 2 years before he wins the Masters. (His only US Open) 2008: Rocco Mediate wins his first major British Open: 2000: Thomas Bjorn and Ernie Els are in a 4 hole playoff (take you pick) 2005: Colin Montgomerie FINALLY wins a major (proably the one that means most to a European player) 2006: Chris DiMarco wins his second major PGA Championship: 1999: Segio Garica wins his first Major (before he says "i'm not good enough to win one") 2000: Bob May wins his first major 2006: Shuan Micheel has 2 PGAs instead of 1 PGA. 2007: Woody Austin (WHO?!?!?!?!) wins his first major. how different the golf world looks if Tiger isn't around. I'm done now. :-P 249. Sean posted: 07.08.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ernie Irvan finished 2-2-2-3 in the plate races in '94 I believe. I think he also led the most laps in all four plate races, but didn't get any wins (although in one of them, he was the highest-finishing LEGAL car...) 250. Roger posted: 07.08.2012 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Elliott did more than drop into a single file line. After the Busch incident he started on the outside line fell back to around 20th and drove it up close to the top 10 all the while cutting in and out of traffic. The man dove in three wide quite a few times. I'm just glad he ended the debate about not wanting to mix it up. It has been proven with solid equipment he will run hard. 251. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AFrame43, I noted that finishing positions are finishing positions in regards to Dale, Sr.'s 1990 Daytona 500 finish, and nothing can change that. 252. Sean posted: 07.08.2012 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I still think if Kenseth can win at Dega his 1-3-3-1 would rank right up there with Dale Senior because of all Top 3s and Dale would have had a 5th." Nah. Who wouldn't rather have a win and a 5th versus two 3rds? 253. Daniel posted: 07.08.2012 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #250, Dang straight he did. Him being in that wreck is probably the most disappointed I've been in a long time. When you're five favorite drivers in NASCAR are Elliott, Dave Blaney, Ken Schrader, Morgan Shepherd, and Jennifer Jo Cobb, you don't go into many races expecting a good finish. So to see him run that well and then get taken out was a major punch in the gut. 254. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.08.2012 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember a race at either Datyona or Talladega that Bill Elliot and Terry Labonte were up front toward the end of the race, i think it was last years 500. Either tandem of pack racing (whatever you want to call it now) vetern drivers manage to get into the mix eventually. 255. Baker posted: 07.08.2012 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ #253 Were you not pulling so hard for NASCAR to call the race after Montoya's incident in the 500? Aside from Tony Stewart Dave Blaney is my favorite driver in cup and I wanted him to win The Daytona 500 sooooooooooo bad. 256. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru WRX STi, yes, not only were Bill Elliott and Terry Labonte among the survivors in last year's Daytona 500, but remember that it was Bobby Labonte that actually pushed Trevor Bayne to the victory when he pushed Bayne past Tony Stewart on the last restart. One thing about the drafting races at Daytona and Talladega is that the old-timers like Elliott, Burton, and the Labonte brothers can use their vast experience to their advantage, not just their experience at drafting, but their experience and know-how to stay out of trouble. What guys like that like to do is to let the guys that are going to crash, crash, and so they wouldn't have as many cars to have to deal with at the end, assuming they're not among he crash victims. But one thing that helped Elliott drive closer to the front from about 20th is getting in that inside lane, because everyone that moved outside fell back, and if you could wait them out, you could move up just on the impatience of others, and that's another thing that guys like Elliott, Burton, and the Labonte brothers have in abundance, and always have had in patience. 257. Daniel posted: 07.08.2012 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #255, Oh I was, but I tried to prepare myself for disappointment if they did restart it. Didn't help much. 258. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not only do you have to look at Dale's finishes on the big tracks, look at how many of the laps he led in those 4 races. And he would have led even more had he not pulled behind Bill Elliott in the Summer Dega race for about 20 laps to draft and save fuel. And of course that one additional lap at Daytona he should have led. I know "buts" don't cut it, but that was the most brutal defeat in NASCAR history, and especially the Daytona 500. Mark in '07 would be second, Schrader in '89 losing on fuel mileage after killing everyone that day is 3rd, and The King in '76 is 4th, sitting there staring right at the checkered flag 100 feet away while being unable to refire his car while Pearson puttered by and got his deserving Daytona 500 win. That would be higher, but Petty has 7 Daytona 500s, so I can't feel too sorry for him lol. 259. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2012 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *in 1990 260. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, Dale Earnhardt's loss in the 1990 Daytona 500 was one of the most brutal in the history of the race, and certainly the most brutal in the modern history of the race. But I would say that Fireball Roberts' defeat in 1961, where he led 170 of the 187 laps he ran and had an effortless one lap lead on Marvin Panch, only to have the starter from his car come off, bounce off the track and puncture the oil pan on his car would count as the most brutal loss in the history of the event. And there have been others. There were the brutal defeats suffered by Buddy Baker in 1973 and '78 ('73 especially, since he led 156 laps that year), and Bobby Allison's heartbreak in 1981 when he led a record 21 times for 117 laps, but ran out of fuel and got snookered by Dale Inman on the final pit stops, but I think only what happened to Roberts in 1961 tops Earnhardt's 1990 Daytona 500 misfortune. 261. Baker posted: 07.08.2012 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else appalled that Paul Menard can be sitting 13th in the points when his 4 best runs are 6th 7th 9th and 10th? I think the need to tier the points a little more at the top. 262. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2012 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, I've been saying that for some time now. The fact that the points are separated by one per position makes second or third place not even worth racing for. And I think that the points structure is one reason for the ultra-conservative racing we've seen this year across the major NASCAR series. The drivers are not willing to tak chances on gaining positions, because they know it isn't worth it in the overall scheme of things. I hope this isn't my final posting, because many intermet connections are going to be cut, and I hope mine isn't one of them. But if it is my final posting, it has been a ball communicating with you all. 263. Red posted: 07.09.2012 - 1:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I think that the points structure is one reason for the ultra-conservative racing we've seen this year" I don't think it's one reason, I think it's THE reason. Look at other series with more top-heavy points systems. We don't see conservative points racing in Formula 1, IndyCar, ALMS, V8 Supercars, MotoGP, Supercross, USAC, etc. Why? Because those series have points systems which provide ample incentive to make passes at the front of the field, even when it may be risky. In NASCAR, a single 40th place finish can take ten weeks of strong finishes to overcome (see Jimmie Johnson after Daytona this year). Conversely, look at the beauty of the IndyCar system: Ryan Hunter-Reay wins three races in a row and rockets straight to the top of the standings, as it should be. If he were in NASCAR, that probably would've moved him from 7th to 5th, if that. Unfortunately, the suits in Daytona INSIST on emphasizing consistency, even when they claim to be emphasizing winning. I honestly did a double take when I checked the standings and saw Menard in 13th, because he's been completely invisible this year. But that's NASCAR's points system for you. cjs, if this is your last post, thank you for sharing your vast wealth of racing knowledge and engaging us RR regulars in so many friendly debates. 264. Sean posted: 07.09.2012 - 3:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If he were in NASCAR, that probably would've moved him from 7th to 5th, if that." 8th to 2nd, actually. IndyCar standings using NASCAR points system after race 7: 1. Will Power 273 2. James Hinchcliffe 262 3. Simon Pagenaud 260 4. Helio Castroneves 259 5. Scott Dixon 256 6. Dario Franchitti 255 7. Ryan Briscoe 237 8. Ryan Hunter-Reay 231 9. J.R. Hildebrand 230 10. Tony Kanaan 226 IndyCar standings using NASCAR points system after race 10: 1. Helio Castroneves 376 2. Ryan Hunter-Reay 374 3. Simon Pagenaud 363 4. Will Power 356 5. James Hinchcliffe 354 6. Scott Dixon 349 7. Tony Kanaan 349 8. Dario Franchitti 328 9. Oriol Servia 325 10. Ryan Briscoe 319 But yes, Castroneves and Pagenaud, who have had no truly bad finishes, have had their performance greatly inflated using NASCAR's points system... "Unfortunately, the suits in Daytona INSIST on emphasizing consistency, even when they claim to be emphasizing winning." I agree with that. That's why I groaned in 2007 when Jimmie Johnson won the title with a 10-win season (when he would have lost with the old points system). It would justify their argument that the "chase rewards winning". Ditto last year. As much as I can't stand Carl Edwards, I wanted for him BADLY to win the chase the EXACT same way Matt Kenseth won in 2003 the year before the chase - one not particularly dominant win at Las Vegas followed by ZILLIONS of races where he turned 20th place runs into 8th place finishes... Admittedly, Stewart in his own right found a way to discredit the chase by doing absolutely nothing before it and then dominating in it... 265. Sean posted: 07.09.2012 - 3:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, looking at Edwards's 2011, he was actually much more dominant than I remember him being... But the point stands. It would have been SO awesome if he had effectively completely repeated Matt Kenseth's 2003... 266. Spen posted: 07.09.2012 - 6:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) There was one huge difference between Kenseth's 2003 season and Edwards' 2011 season. In '03, Kenseth's team clearly wasn't championship calliber. He won the title by dragging out good finishes out of not-so-great cars, and taking advantage of the misfortunes of others. In '11, Edwards clearly had one of the fastest cars all year, he just kept inventing new ways to not seal the deal. 267. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2012 - 9:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it seems that I didn't lose my internet connection (at least not yet), so I can still chat here. (I was going to say that you'll still have me to deal with.) And although when people like me say that the racing has been affected by the points system, that's one thing. But earlier this year at Richmond, no less of an authority on NASCAR than three-time champion Darrell Waltrip pointed this as a reason for the lackluster racing. That marked the first time I had heard someone from within NASCAR say that a reason for the conservative racing was the point system, and he's right on. Of course, NASCAR swept it under the rug, but when someone as opinionated and as experienced in championship battles as Waltrip says that the points system may be the root of the conservative racing, that should open up the eyes of those in charge, but instead they shove it under the rug. I've said it before, keep the points from 1th place through the balance of the field what it is, but increase the points per position payout to 2 per position from 6th through 10th, 3 per position from second through 6th, and five points from first to second, or 3 points from third through sixth, 5 points from second to third, and seven points from first to second. Then I think you'll see more competition up front. Now there are other reasons for the prolonged periods of green flag racing, including fewer cars racing, due to start-and-parks (as many as eight per race), shorter fuel runs (75-80 miles instead of close to 100, which make tire conservation meaningless), and harder compound tires, which are necessary at the high speed tracks, something Michigan's 200 MPH speeds again exposed, but chiefly among the factors invovled is the point system, because it does not provide any incentive to racing hard up front. 268. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.09.2012 - 11:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sam Hornish Jr will be in the 22 at New Hampshire. 269. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2012 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the win should be worth 100 points, with a steep drop down toward 1 for 41st, 42nd, and 43rd to encourage teams to race longer and harder. Like this: 1. 100 2. 90 3. 80 4. 70 5. 60 6. 50 7. 45 8. 40 9. 35 10. 30 11. 25 12. 24 13. 23 14. 22 15. 21 16. 20 17. 19 18. 18 19. 17 20. 16 21. 15 22. 14 23. 13 24. 12 25. 11 26. 10 27. 9 28. 8 29. 7 30. 6 31. 5 32. 5 33. 5 34. 5 35. 5 36. 4 37. 4 38. 4 39. 4 40. 4 41. 0 42. 0 43. 0 This would help discourage start-and-parks because all they do is try to stay out longer before parking so that they get more points and therefore more money. It forces them to run longer, particularly if the base line earnings before sponsor money is added is directly proportional to points, meaning the same amount for 41, 42, and 43, thus making starting-and-parking undesirable. This would also simultaneously encourage passing at the front because the point gap is so much larger that a driver would want to press for that spot. This also makes it more possible for a driver to overcome a deficit from a having a bad race. There would also be just one point for leading, but ten for leading the most, thus encouraging drivers to try to win. I for one love seeing consistent drivers do well; even as a Gordon fan I think Terry earned 1996. The system, while rewarding wins, would simultaneously because a driver consistently in the top-5 would still do better than the go-or-blow drivers who have 8 wins but 10 DNF's. The best overall still takes home the dough. OK, cjs, fire away! 270. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2012 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I should also add that I would like to see more points for winning the Daytona 500, the Southern 500, the Coke 600, and the Aaron's 499, as those are still considered the crown jewels (although I still think the Southern 500 is a crock unless it is on Labor Day weekend or Labor Day). Say 125 for winning those, with the rest staying the same. 271. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2012 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, you forgot the Brickyard 400 when you referred to the crown jewels, but at least you and I agree that the crown jewels are the same ones I refer to them as. Now as for the point structure you mentioned, I think that the point breakdown from 11th through the balance of the field is fine as it is currently, as long as they continue the 1-point per position breakdown. I have no problem with that. That means that 43rd and last would still be worth one point, and 11th would still be 33 points. Given that as a baseline, here are the points I would give for the top 11 positions: 1. 60, 62, or 64 2. 55 or 57 3. 52 4. 49 5. 46 6. 43 7. 41 8. 39 9. 37 10. 35 11. 33, then one point per position for the rest of the finishing order. The bonus points are also good as they are, though if there would be a change in the bonus point structure, I would give 3 points to the driver that leads the most laps, 2 for the second-most laps, and 1 for the third-most laps led in addition to the one for officially leading the race at any time. Also, as it is, any drivers tied in the laps led category top 3 in any race would get full bonus point credit. I don't like the idea of giving bonus points for qualifying, because that would undo what NASCAR did with the one engine rule, and some team might run special setups for qualifying, which NASCAR tried to get away from when they made that rule. Besides NicoRosbergFan, your point system doesn't give any extra boost for winning against finishing in the other top positions. 272. Sean posted: 07.09.2012 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's more or less what I want: 1. 200 2. 160 3. 140 4. 120 5. 100 6. 90 7. 80 8. 70 9. 60 10. 50 11. 45 12. 40 13. 35 14. 30 15. 25 16. 22 17. 19 18. 16 19. 13 20. 10 21-30. 8 31-40. 6 41-43. 4 DNQ. 2 owner points Pole. 10 Lead 10-19% of the race. 10 Lead 20-29% of the race. 20 Lead 30-39% of the race. 30 Lead 40-49% of the race. 40 Lead 50-59% of the race. 50 Lead 60-69% of the race. 60 Lead 70-79% of the race. 70 Lead 80-89% of the race. 80 Lead 90-99% of the race. 90 Lead 100% of the race. 100 My initial version of this had smaller incremental bonuses for leading (2 points each instead of 10) and no points outside the top 25 (21. 8, 22. 6, 23. 4, 24. 2, 25. 1). My big issues are: 1. Not enough points awarded to the top positions. 2. More than this, I'm annoyed by WAY TOO MANY points awarded to positions in the bottom half of the field. My preference would be to only have the top 20 or top 25 score points (honestly, I'd be somewhat okay if NASCAR just awarded the top 20 positions 20-1 points as then drivers would be rewarded for TOP-LEVEL consistency). 3. Having each position score a different number of points in the bottom positions encourages wrecked cars to return to the race 50-100 laps down (and possibly do crazy things like Edwards returning to the track and using that as a justification to wreck Keselowski at Atlanta in 2010). Wrecked cars returning MANY laps down has always been one of the least professional things about NASCAR in my opinion, and we need to discourage that as much as possible. 4. Adding far more significant bonuses for leading more successfully reflects dominance, which to me is more important than consistency. The ONLY thing that makes me cringe is that a points system like this would likely give Ryan Newman the 2003 title, but honestly, in my mind, NOBODY deserved that title and somebody had to win... Kenseth's season was not that impressive and he was much better in 2006 and this year... Nico has a more conservative (and perhaps more realistic) version of what I want. He does agree with me about bottom positions scoring the SAME points, which is one of the things I want most. There shouldn't be incentive to improve from 38th to 36th... There SHOULD be incentive to improve from 10th to 5th, or from 3rd to 2nd. You can go too far with reflecting winning and dominance. Matt McLaughlin of Frontstretch (whom I usually like) wants a points system like this: 1. 1000 2. 500 3. 200 4. 100 etc... and I think that is WAY too far in the other direction, but the points system (largely based on IndyCar's except for the leader bonuses) seems like the ideal compromise, and consistency would still be important (Jarrett in '99 and B. Labonte in '00 would still win even not having the most dominant seasons, but honestly Gordon and Stewart were probably way too consistent and weren't dominant ENOUGH relative to Jarrett/B. Labonte to overcome their lack of consistency. USAC and CART certainly had champions who didn't win very many races either, like Tom Sneva in '77 and Al Unser in '83, despite a MUCH more top-heavy points system...) But no to rewarding the crown jewel races more. The WORST thing about IndyCar's points system is the goofy bonus points for Indy 500 qualifying. The crown jewels only meant something special when they attracted a deeper field. Now every race attracts essentially the same field, and the crown jewel races tend to be the biggest crapshoots. After 2011's crown jewel winners, it's hard to take any of them seriously again... 273. Sean posted: 07.09.2012 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs's points system is okay, and better than what we have today, but my big problem remains that there shouldn't be an incentive to improve in the dnf positions, leading to crap like cars coming back 100 laps down or start 'n' parkers periodically returning to the track for a few laps to pass each other over and over... He's got a point about not having points for qualifying to cut costs (I'm pretty indifferent about points for the pole and don't care a lot either way), and I may be taking lap leader bonuses a bit too far, but that's how I think it SHOULD be (even though nobody is really doing that...) 274. Sean posted: 07.09.2012 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah, and is there ANYBODY who likes the idea of drivers getting a bonus point for leading a SINGLE lap? Maybe there was a point to that when 5 or fewer cars usually finished on the lead lap in the beginning of the modern era, but that should have been done away with by the late '80s... I also think the Latford system in general was out-of-date by about the same time. The idea of awarding differential points throughout the field was designed to encourage drivers to run the full schedule, and it did work. However, by the late '80s, ALL the major teams were running the full schedule and NASCAR should have phased out the idea of the bottom positions scoring different amounts of points... 275. Sean posted: 07.09.2012 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "honestly Gordon and Stewart were probably way too consistent" Obviously I meant to say Gordon and Stewart were probably way too INconsistent. Yeah, I wouldn't want a points system that was SO biased towards winning that Kasey Kahne would win the 2006 title, either. In no way was he better than Johnson or Kenseth despite winning the most races... 276. Baker posted: 07.09.2012 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a points system I've been working on. 1. 60 2. 45 3. 40 4. 36 5. 32 6. 28 7. 25 8. 22 9. 19 10. 16 11. 13 12. 11 13. 9 14. 7 15. 5 16-20. 3 21-30. 2 31-43. 1 1 point for lap lead 1 point for most laps led 277. Baker posted: 07.09.2012 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With my system the points now would look like: 1. Jimmie Johnson 518 2. Matt Kenseth 512 3. Tony Stewart 485 4. Dale Junior 459 5. Denny Hamlin 433 6. Greg Biffle 431 7. Brad Keselowski 372 8. Clint Bowyer 337 9. Martin Truex Jr. 327 10. Kyle Busch 326 11. Kasey Kahne 314 12. Kevin Harvick 305 13. Carl Edwards 269 14. Jeff Gordon 234 15. Joey Logano 215 16. Ryan Newman 214 278. Baker posted: 07.09.2012 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle jumps in the chase while Harvick falls out and Kahne and Logano take the wildcard instead of Kyle and Logano. Basically Kahne in and Harvick out. To me this is a better reflection of who has actually had the better season. 279. Daniel posted: 07.09.2012 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) New Hampshire Entry List: -Mike Bliss in the #19 -Scott Riggs in the #23 -Ken Schrader in the #32 -Brian Vickers in the #55 -Kelly Bires in the #79 280. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2012 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, the system you propose has some major flaws. First, if you award points based on the number of laps a driver leads, that means that the winner could actually LOSE points in the championship battle to someone a few positions back, so that makes no sense at all. And as for your saying that there shouldn't be any incentive for letting wrecked cars back onto the track, NASCAR could put a stop to this by simply not allowing it. but that would allow a mechanically impaired car to return to the race, if it has be proven to be fully repaired, such as Kyle Busch as Martinsville earlier ths year. Also, rewarding one point per position throughout the field encourages the start-and-parks to try to run farther than the others, and the bonus for leading could actualy help those teams at the bottom of the pecking order, which is why those teams tend to take advantage of trying to get the bonus points for leading more han one of the front running teams do. Dave Marcis was the first to figure this out a long time ago. And as for awarding ascending points to the "DNF" positions, how many cars finish a race is different depending on the kind of track it is. For instance, if there's a huge wreck at Daytona or Talladega, 20th place could be a DNF position, while at others, there could be 35 or more cars running at the finish, so that shoots a hole in that idea, as well. For instance, the drivers that finished 26th-31st all officially failed to finish, wile the 32nd-34th place cars did finish. And let's not forget that those cars are often in a race with each other. For instance, the 83 and 22 cars were in competition, while the 78 and 51 cars were in competition with each other. Had that crash off the last turn happened a lap earlier, the 83 and 22 could have moved up as many as six positions in the running order, due to a GWC finish. Instead of finishing 32nd and 33rd, they might have finished 26th and 27th. Those six points could be vital at season's end for some of the higher rated teams. It could even be the difference in making the Chase and not making the Chase, or even winning the championshp and finishing second in points. So every position in the race should matter, whether it's 3rd or 33rd. It's just that the higher positions should matter a lot more, and currently they don't. 281. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2012 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's just go back to the days where the championship only paid like $5000 and winning a single rqce paid twice as much alone. And give the champs a crappy little trophy like the ones the pre Winston Cup era guys won. 282. 18fan posted: 07.09.2012 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just for the fun of it, I have been calculating the points for this season using the current F1 points system(25-18-15-12-10-8-6-4-2-1) and the standings would look like this: Jimmie Johnson 164 Tony Stewart 162 Matt Kenseth 158 Denny Hamlin 143 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 137 Greg Biffle 128 Brad Keselowski 103 Kyle Busch 98 Kasey Kahne 87 Clint Bowyer 84 Martin Truex, Jr 81 Kevin Harvick 69 Ryan Newman 53 Jeff Gordon 48 Carl Edwards 47 Joey Logano 46 283. Talon64 posted: 07.09.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart picks up his 47th career Sprint Cup Series victory, moving him past Buck Baker into 14th all time. He's just 1 back of Herb Thomas for 13th and 3 back of becoming the 13th driver to win 50 races (and tie Junior Johnson for 12th). Stewart's 14 wins since forming Stewart Haas Racing rank him 3rd behind only Jimmie Johnson (17) and Denny Hamlin (15). His 3rd win of 2012 ties Brad Keselowski for the most this season. And Stewart picked up his series-leading 8th top 3 finish of the season, 4 of them coming within the last 5 races. Stewart's 4 Daytona 400 wins have all come within the last 8 races. His 4 Daytona Cup wins are his 2nd most at any track, behind only Watkins Glen where he has 5. But it's his first top 10 at Daytona in the last 6 races (28 starts, 8 top 5's, 13 top 10's, 16.1 avg fin). Jeff Burton gets his best finish of 2012 in 2nd, just his 2nd top 5 of the season (first since the Daytona 500) and his first top 10 in 8 races. But his two top 5's equal his total from all of 2011. It's Burton's 3rd top 5 in his last 5 Daytona starts (6 in his first 33 starts). Burton hasn't had a stand-alone top 10 at Daytona since 2001 (11 top 10's, 17.1 avg fin in 38 starts). Matt Kenseth is now tied for the series lead in both top 5's (9) and top 10's (13), and ranks 2nd in podium finishes (6). He hasn't finished higher than 3rd since a 2nd at Bristol back in March, but has 7 top 5's over the 14 races since. It's Kenseth's 3rd straight top 3 finish at Daytona, making up half of his 6 top 5's in 26 career Daytona starts (13 top 10's, 16.2 avg fin). His 89 laps led were his most ever at Daytona. Joey Logano picks up just his 2nd top 5 of the season, and first in the 4 races since his Pocono win. He has 5 top 10's in the last 8 races, but only ranks 12th in points scored over that stretch (14.1 avg fin). After having no top 10's in his first 5 Daytona starts (26.8 avg fin) Logano now has 3 straight including 2 top 5's (5.3 avg fin). Ryan Newman has his first top 10 in the 12 races since his Martinsville win (20.3 avg fin in the 11 races before Daytona). It's just his 3rd top 5 and 4th top 10 of the season, which are also his career totals at Daytona in 22 starts (21.2 avg fin). It's his first top 10 at Daytona in the 9 races since his 2008 Daytona 500 win. Carl Edwards gets his first top 10 in the last 6 races. The last time Carl went 5 races in a row without one was May-June 2010. His 8 top 10's at Daytona have all come in the last 11 races (10.5 avg fin) after none in his first 5 (30.0 avg fin). After having 7 straight top 10's then going 3 straight without one, Kasey Kahne has them in back-to-back races. It's his 3rd straight top 10 in the Daytona night race but just his 3rd in the last 8 Daytona races overall (7 top 10's, 17.3 avg fin in 18 career starts). Brad Keselowski has back-to-back top 10's for the first time Richmond and Talladega back in April-May, after going 4 straight races without one. However, BraKes has 11 straight finishes of 18th or better (9.5 avg fin). It's Keselowski's first top 10 in 7 Daytona starts (24.9 avg fin). In just his 10th start over the last 3 seasons Michael Waltrip picks up his 2nd top 10 over that span, 9th place finishes at Talladega and Daytona. His last 4 top 10's have come at plate tracks, with his last non-RP top 10 coming at Dover back in 2008. It's his 14th top 10 in 49 career Daytona starts (20.9 avg fin), and his 29th career top 10 on plate tracks (8th all time). Bobby Labonte gets his first top 10 of 2012 and just his 3rd since 2010; two of them have come at Daytona, and 4 of his last 6 have come on plate tracks. It's his 10th top 10 in 40 career Daytona starts (21.5 avg fin). David Reutimann and Tommy Baldwin Racing get their best finish of 2012 with an 11th place finish. It's his first top 20 finish of the season, and the first top 20 for TBR since Dave Blaney finished 15th at Daytona. BK Racing has back-to-back top 20 finishes for the first time, both with Travis Kvapil who got his 4th of the season. Terry Labonte's last 5 top 20 finishes have come at plate tracks; his last non-RP top 20 was a 17th place finish at Sonoma back in 2008 for Petty Enterprises. 284. Sean posted: 07.09.2012 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sean, the system you propose has some major flaws. First, if you award points based on the number of laps a driver leads, that means that the winner could actually LOSE points in the championship battle to someone a few positions back, so that makes no sense at all." Yeah, you're probably right, and I probably should cut it to 4 point intervals for each 10% led or something but there are still lots of times where the driver who leads the most laps and doesn't win has a much greater performance than the actual winner, particularly when the winner these days is so rarely the driver who actually dominated... At this point, I'd even prefer using driver ratings to pick the champion than what we currently have, and that's pretty bad... 285. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2012 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon64, you forgot Ned Jarrett. Ned also won 50 times in his career. When Stewart wins three more times, he'll tie Ned Jarrett and Junior Johnson for 11th all-time. 286. LordLowe posted: 07.09.2012 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is the points system that I would use 1st|180/25 2nd|170 3rd|160 4th|145 5th|130 6th|115 7th|100 8th|85 9th|70 10th|55 11th|40 12th|20 13th|15 14th|10 15th|5 There will be 25 additional points for the person who finishes 1st There will also be 10 bonus points for the driver who leads the most laps There will also be 5 bonus points for the driver who wins the pole. 287. Eric posted: 07.09.2012 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, We don't know for sure if Talon64 really forget about Tony being 3 wins away. The fact is Stewart only won 6 races year 1 time in his cup career and tony already has 3 wins. Getting 50 years by the end of the year based on Stewart's past in amount of wins is unlikely as result unless he gets a career year in cup wins. That is itself would be odd since usually a cup driver gets a career high in cup wins in a season much earlier in a career than Stewart. The other thing is 50 cup wins wouldn't be Stewart next big accomplishment for cup wins either because tying Herb Thomas with 48 cup wins. What Talon64 should have mentioned is one cup win away from tying Herb Tomas with 48 career cup wins. 288. Eric posted: 07.09.2012 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I stand corrected. Talon64 mentioned Herb Thomas for 48 Cup wins. 289. Eric posted: 07.09.2012 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am guessing Talon 64 is doing one cup win accomplishment at a time with Stewart. Hopefully cjs3872 wouldn't try correct me about post 287 about Talon64 not mentioning herb Thomas without also reading post 288. How I would like at changing a points system multiple things. The first is give cup and Nationwide drivers that same amount of points if they finish 30th or worst. In the past there has been debris fallen of cars from the garage and that would end for most tracks for going back out to get more points. Points for leading a lead should only happen if they lead the most laps. Since the chase exists, The first 26 races need to reward the points lead after the first 26 races with an additional 15 points. The final thing is since there is a win bonus after the first 26 races for points standings in terms of lining up the drivers in the chase, there should 15 points for each win the first 10 cup drivers in the chase should get if they get a win in the first 26 cup races in a season. 290. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2012 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, Talon64 never mentioned anything about Stewart doing it this year, just that he needed three wins to reach 50. I just mentioned that he had forgotten to mention Ned Jarrett, because Junior Johnson was the only driver with 50 wins he mentioned. And as for him mentioning Stewart's wins one at a time in terms of his standing on the all-time wins list, the reason for that is that Bill Elliott scored 44 wins, Buck Baker 46, Herb Thomas 48, and Ned Jarrett and Junior Johnson each scored 50. That means every time he wins a race between his 44th and 51st career wins, he either ties someone on the all-time wins list, or moves past someone on the all-time wins list. And I think he mentions career wins every time a driver wins a race, anyway, just to keep those who don't keep track informed. 291. Randy posted: 07.09.2012 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Waltrip outran both Boyer and Truex - now they will have to be in one of his commercials washing a Toyota in front of an Aarons, using equipment purchased a NAPA drinking 5 hour energy and dressed in chicken outfits. 292. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2012 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At Daytona, that was not to be unexpected, Randy, because he has been a front runner there, no matter what car he's been in, going all the way back to when he raced for Chuck Rider's Bahari Racing team, for which he nearly won the 1992 Daytona 500 and the 1994 Winston 500 at Talladega. So the fact that he paid the front of the field a lengthy visit was no surprise at all. Now Bowyer not being much of a factor at a place where he's nearly won several times was a much bigger surprise. Truex was a top 10-15 runner during much of the race, but got shuffled back late. 293. Red posted: 07.09.2012 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The fact is Stewart only won 6 races year 1 time in his cup career" Does anyone else find that surprising? Tony seems like the type of driver who should have put together at least one 8+ win season by now, but he's just never had that true dominating season like most of the other greats. His 2005 campaign was pretty dominant in terms of leading laps, but otherwise it was basically an average championship season. Then again, Tony has always been his own worst enemy, and has probably wasted more potential than anyone with as much natural talent as he does. If Tony had the same mental stability and focus as Jimmie, he'd have like 70 wins and five championships by now. 294. 10andJoe posted: 07.09.2012 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NHIS entry list is out. 44 cars: -The #19 returns to the circuit and Riggs is back in the #23 -Hornish in the #22 -Schrader in the #32 -Vickers in the #55 -Kelly Bires in Go Green's #79 295. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2012 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Others have wasted more ability and left more on the race track being their own worst enemy (Robby Gordon, the Busch Brothers, possibly even June) but Tony has definitely not reached his potential as a driver overall. He is better nowadays, I guess being the owner as well as age has made him think a little more often, but it is hard to look at his career and not think he should be the one with JJ's numbers. And I still say his totally unexplainable taking his head off his shoulders not only cost him the title that year, it changed the course of NASCAR history. If he got in yet another staredown with JJ and win (and let's face it, JJ had a Smoke complex, see the 2005 Phoenix race) again, that most likely would have been the final straw for the Johnson - Knaus power duo. It damn near ended after 2005 when Smoke and Zippy beat them back, another disappointment would almost certainly have broken their backs. The 48 dynasty could have been derailed before it ever got started. But Tony missed the postseason altogether, made Mark Martin cry, and allowed JJ to sail to his first title, get the monkey off his back, get unparalleled swagger, and 7 years later he is still tormenting us. But the biggest difference is that Tony is capable of staying calm for periods of time (all of 2005, the stretch runs of '02 and '11) and he has reached legendary numbers. But this will always be known as the JJ era, and Tony could have made it his own instead. That is why, in my personal ranking, he is well below many with less impressive numbers. For example, his next win will tie him with Herb Thomas, but to me, him and Herb don't belong in the same sentence. 296. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2012 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *"that year" I was talking about was 2006 297. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2012 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well we know from looking at the entry list that every non-exempt car trying to qualify for this weekend's race at Loudon, NH is a start-and-park, with the possible exception of J.J. Yeley, but even the #49 team has done S&Ps in recent races. But we don't know if there are going to be any of the top 35 that do likewise (such as TBR's #36 car). If there are, there could be nine or ten of S&P's in the Cup race, which means there could only be 33 or 34 cars trying to run the distance this coming Sunday. Close to one quarter of the field for this weekend's race may not even try to go the distance, or even through the first pit stop. 298. Eric posted: 07.10.2012 - 12:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, I do agree with you there for Stewart how surprising that is for Stewart only having 1 6 win season. This might be the season to change that, but it very odd for how long it took Stewart to get 6 or more wins a 2nd time or a career high for wins. Stewart has been winning every season hot got into cup. While Stewart can be his worst enemy, there is another thing to look at for Stewart why Stewart only has 1 6 win season. Before this season, Stewart only had 5 career cup point race wins before June. Stewart is historically a slow starter and that is something that would hurt him on a greatest cup drivers all time list. That is one of the explains on why Stewart doesn't have majors of races that take place before June. If Stewart gets a career high in wins this year of his cup career so far, it can be pointed to Stewart winning early in a cup season. Stewart has a reputation of being at his best on hot slick race tracks. It might have something to do with it, but it doesn't explain why Stewart has an easier time to win in October or November than February to the end of May. The other thing is it doesn't explain why Stewart can win in later in the day or night races. There is an explanation why Stewart won 2 times early this year. Stewart was using Grubb's cars and Steve Addington is a crew chief that is known to be at his best in spring and summer. The problem with Steve is his teams aren't that great during the chase, but it could be the fact he had the Busch Brothers. The Busch Brothers usually are not at their best when the pressure is at its highest in a cup season. 299. Red posted: 07.10.2012 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Others have wasted more ability and left more on the race track being their own worst enemy (Robby Gordon, the Busch Brothers, possibly even June)" I didn't mention Robby because I never thought he was fully committed to NASCAR, and Kyle Busch is still young enough to get his head on straight, as he seems to be doing this year. However, Kurt has pretty much driven his career straight into the toilet with his incessantly idiotic behavior, so yeah I'd agree he's wasted more potential than Tony. As far as Junior goes, I've never thought of him as being a freakish talent like Robby, Kyle, Kurt, and Tony. He probably has A- talent, and he's certainly underachieved, but his ceiling was never as high as the others. To me Junior's max potential would be 1-2 championships and about 40 wins, even if he were totally motivated and focused. Hell, you could add Denny Hamlin to this list, as he's one of the top five talents in the garage right now, but is also among the most psychologically fragile. Denny could be a perennial championship contender if he could just keep his head together, but he seems to have that paranoid, brooding, think-yourself-to-death temperament, which is unlikely to change. The guys who maximize their talent the most? Jimmie, Matt, Brad, and Jeff (especially when he was younger). 300. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2012 - 1:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, what you say about the Busch brothers not being at their best during Chase time is certaily true of Kyle, but older brother Kurt has proven he can get it done in Chase time. (Remember the first Chase in 2004, and who won it?) Despite his hot-headed nature away from the car and on the radio to his teams over the years, Kurt has often displayed a calculating style on the track when racing his competitors, well as being able to get it done on bigger occasions, that his younger brother still seems to lack, something that was on full display this past Friday night when he won with a car that should never have been in the top ten, much less contending for the win. And that's what's frustrating about both Busch brothers because more often than not, they're their own worst enemies. 301. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2012 - 10:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's official. U.S. Army is leaving Stewart-Haas Racing's #39 car at the end of the season, meaning that Ryan Newman could very well leave SHR at season's end in more sponsorship isn't found. I wonder where he'd wind up. Could he return to Penske's team, as unlikely as that might sound, or might he be a candidate for the #20 car if Matt Kenseth doesn't end up there? I've also heard that Michael Andretti might be interested in Newman if he put a NASCAR team together next year, though that may be becoming less likely as the weeks go on. I believe Michael wants to be involved in NASCAR, as rumors have it that he's been looking at it for several years now, but the possibility of that happening for next year begins to be less and less likely as time goes by. If no announcement is made by the Brickyard, he won't have a NASCAR team next year. But with Newman possibly looking for a ride next year if sponsorship can't be found on the #39 car, and with no more quality rides opening up that I can see, what driver might this mean curtains for, because it certainly won't be Newman. If I had to guess, even though he has a win this year at one of the most demanding tracks on the circuit, Joey Logano may be without a ride next year, even if he mkes the Chase. And I still think that, despite his second place finish at Daytona this past Saturday, Jeff Burton is on the hot seat at Childress if his performances at the non-RP tracks don't improve, and in a big way. 302. 18fan posted: 07.10.2012 - 12:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Burton will be there to fill the seat until Austin Dillon is ready and I think RCR will want Burton to mentor both Austin and Ty. 303. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2012 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, I know Childress would like to have Burton stay there long enough to mentor the Dillon brothers, but the question is, can Childress wait that long if Burton's overall performance doesn't improve? After all, aside from the plate races, he's generally been an 18th-23rd place driver all year, and that's not going to cut it, especially with a sponsor like Caterpillar, while others are doing far better with extremely limited sponsorship with smaller teams. just squeezing into the top 20 is an even smaller accomplishment considering the fact that there are only 25-28 competitve cars each week. That puts Burton in the bottom third of the field among the competitve cars each week. We bash Paul Menard on this site quite often, but at least he keeps treading water more often than not, often running 12th-16th, and even getting into the top ten occasionally, which is far better than Burton has done for the last two years, except for the plate races. Childress would like to keep Burton, but may face the realiztion that he can't afford to for much longer, due to Burton's lack of overall performance. 304. 18fan posted: 07.10.2012 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard has for the most part been an 11th-20th place driver this year, as 11 of his finishes are in that range. He has only 3 finishes outside the top 20. 305. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2012 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And 18fan, that pretty much backs up what I stated, as Menard has run in the teens most of this year, with a few top ten runs mixed in, and his 13th position in the points in reflective of that. But my point was that Burton has, for the most part, been a lot worse than that. He's been about an 18th-23rd place driver most of the season, and has sometime struggled to get that far "up" the leaderboard. That's why I think that, despite the fact that Childress badly wants to keep Burton to mentor his grandsons, especially Austin, in the Cup series, he may not be able to wait that long, especially considering what other drivers in lesser funded cars are doing in comparison to Burton. Often times, with the exception of Chip Ganassi's team, Burton has been the worst performing of the drivers on the big teams this year, and it can be argued that Ganassi is not a big team, and the same can be said about Penske's #22 car and the Petty teams. Burton's ability to get to the finish is the only reason he's as high as 18th in the standings, as he's been south of 20th much of the year, battling with the likes of Almirola, Ambrose, Allmendinger (before his suspension), and Ganassi's two drivers, McMurray and Montoya. 306. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2012 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red you are right about Robby not being fully committed to NASCAR. While it is certainly his right to go about racing however he sees fit, he could have really put his name in stone in history had he focused on NASCAR or Indy Car. Instead he will be known as one of the greatest desert racers ever and mostly forgotten elsewhere. And that is why I put "probably" next to June's name. I also don't think he has the freakish natural ability, but I think he does have the ability to have won a championship or two and have about twice as many wins. So I think Tony has left more on the table. 307. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.10.2012 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony and Robby have one thing in common: Same temperment as AJ Foyt. It is either their way or the highway. 308. Anonymous posted: 07.10.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru WRX Sti, Tony And Robby might got that way from AJ Foyt. Robby was AJ's first driver in his car after Foyt retired and might have influenced Robby in some way. I know AJ Foyt was Stewart's hero and his behavior is similar to Foyt's. I know about Foyt's personality in his prime based on a person that I know that was involved racing. Foyt had a big time temper based on what he saw. The person worked the pits at a race track as a person to put out fires on pit road back when USAC had a stock car series. The person also carried tires to the pits, but wasn't a tire changer. The person didn't say what years, but names like Jack Bowsher in Usaac points to late 1960's or early 1970's. 309. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2012 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#308), Foyt STILL has a bad temper, and always has had a bad temper. There was that infamous episode regarding nitrous oxide at Daytona back in 1976, and when Foyt learned that his pole time was going to be stripped, he went ballistic, and eve threatened not to run the Daytona 500. But Bill France, Sr. got involved and, well let's just say that Foyt ran in the Daytona 500 that year. He was forced to requalify, and was still the fastest (though nearly 2 MPH slower than his disallowed time), and even though he started 31st due to a problem in his qualifying race, he stil led more laps (66) than anyone else that historic day. And who can forget that episode back at the 1998 Indianapolis 500 when he threw the team's laptop after Kenny Brack ran out of fuel, a problem that dogged Foyt a lot during his career, as he lost the 1971 Daytona 500, and quite possibly the Indianapolis 500 in both 1975 and '76 because he ran out of fuel. And he nearly threw away the 1977 Indianapolis 500 when he ran out of fuel early in the race. 310. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The difference is Foyt could be a badass and still get results. Plus he is a much more natural badass than Robby or Tony. It is simply who he is. The baddest MFer out there. In conclusion, Foyt is the man we all wish we could be. 311. Anonymous posted: 07.10.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart penalized 6 points for the qualifying infraction 312. Spen posted: 07.10.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caterpillar put up with lackluster results from Bill Davis' team for years before finally bailing. I think they place more emphasis on having an easily recognizable car in the field week in and week out than they do on having a car in victory lane (where they haven't been since Loudon 2002.). Burton's relatively high popularity helps them more than running better with someone like Newman would. I don't see Joey or Newman being rideless next year. Gibbs has invested a lot of time and money into Logano, and it's starting to pay off. He wouldn't fire a 22 year-old in favor of a guy whose glory days ended seven years ago. Newman might be a candidate for a fourth car, though. Truthfully, I'd rather see him waste his career there instead of Kenseth. If that doesn't work out, I'd expect to see him go to either Andretti (if that happens next year) or Ganassi if it doesn't. Either way, expect midpack mediocrity. If he returns to the Ford camp, he could potentially replace Almirola in the #43 (he's probably the most expendable of the drivers with quality rides, at least in terms of overall name recognition.) Penske's out of the question. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Sam Hornish will drive that car for the foreseeable future. 313. Spen posted: 07.10.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course, Petty probably won't be in the Ford camp anymore next year, but the rest of my point still stands. 314. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2012 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Spen, if A.J. Allmendinger's "B" sample comes back positive, Hornish will certainly be in that car for the rest of the races this year that don't conflict with the Nationwide Series, but among the drivers rumored to be in that car if Hornish isn't in it next year are Joey Logano, especially if he loses his ride at Joe Gibbs Racing, and Trevor Bayne, ironically Penske's supposed first choice for that ride last winter. Remember that with Penske going to Ford next year, if Hornish doesn't get that ride, Bayne may be the one in line for it. And speaking of Bayne, if an article I read earlier today is right, Kurt Busch actually had the gall to say that he (Bayne) needed to read a Bible and decide if he wanted to be a racer. That was after Busch bulldozed his way into a hole between Bayne and Aric Almirola that wasn't there with 69 laps/172.5 miles left in Saturday night's race. That might have been the most below the belt comment I've ever heard or seen quoted, but not surprising considering it came from the low-class Busch, and that it was aimed at the apparently high-class Bayne. From what I've seen, Bayne has more class in his finger nails than Kurt Busch has in his entire body, and that statement proves it. 315. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2012 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a Brad fan, I certainly hope Penske doesn't hire Logano. From what I hear, he provides very little to his team, it is pretty much just KyBu and Denny bouncing ideas off each other. I'm sure Brad would welcome it. He knows Joey would be no threat to take his spot as Penske's top dog. All driver's have egos and he is no different. But he needs somebody to bounce iseads off of and give good feedback. Which is a big reason I look for a monster season from JGR next year provided Toyota doesn't take a huge step backwards. With a third racing mind over there, and one of the best racing minds and THE best behind the wheel chassis guy out there, that looks to be a potent trio. Unless they screw it up by starting a fourth team for Logano. The problem is somebody most likely will hire Logano. There is a very good chance he will win the 2nd Pocono race, giving him 2 wins and a huge leg up in the wild card, therefore he will most likely make the cha$e. He has had the hot Pocono setup whether it is the old pavement or new. And with the race only being 400 miles that gives him less opportunites to blow it. So somebodyis going to look at him and say "22 year old, already made a cha$e" and think he is good. And they will be wrong. Trevor Bayne would be a much better choice. BTW, speaking of Trevor, did you see where Kurt, after causing that wreck with Trevor, made a crack about Trevor and his Bible. Kurt just cannot help but be a dick. It is just who he is. Even this year, staring the end of his relevant racing career and tons of wasted God given natural talent right in the face he has acted up over and over. Whoops, I just referenced God. Are you gonna make fun of me too Kurt? Asshole. I think he may be #1 as far as most wasted talent. These should be his prime racing years. Look at what Brad is doing in those Penske cars. 6 wins in the past year and 1/3. And we all know Kurt has more natural ability than Brad. Kurt should be putting up monster numbers and racking up championships. Instead he is in underfunded mid pack equipment, wrecking every week, being a complete non factor. Good riddance moron. 316. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2012 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol cjs, you beat me to it about Kurt's Bible crack. 317. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2012 - 4:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is always the drivers who have no character who question others character... Now if Bayne said Busch needed to open his Bible, I'd react differently. 318. Talon64 posted: 07.11.2012 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 3 drivers tied Herb Thomas each in runner-up finishes, top 5's and top 10's in this race. Jeff Burton tied Herb for 27th all time in runner-up finishes with 25. Matt Kenseth tied Herb for 26th all time in top 5 finishes with 122. And Ryan Newman tied Herb (& Neil Bonnett) for 40th all time in top 10's with 156. But Herb's 5th all time in top 5 % (.5351) and top 10 % (.6842), and had a .1096 runner-up %. 319. The Voice of Reason posted: 07.11.2012 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once again, it appears that Christians have the thinnest skin of any group of people on the planet. Maybe you should all consult your bibles about that whole "turn the other cheek" thing. Actually, never mind, I learned along time ago that asking Christians to actually follow any important part of their orthodoxy when it actually matters is a pointless endeavor. I will say one thing though, I bet Trevor Bayne cares far less about this stupid comment than all of you apparently do. You are now free to resume whatever recycled discussion you're going over this week. *checks thread* Ah, the classic, "what drivers have wasted their talent" discussion. What is this, the 37th time you've gone over that? Or is it 38? Well, enjoy. 320. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.11.2012 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ I have my own beliefs, so what Kurt said doesn't bother me one bit. Kurt is just being Kurt. i honestly could say more but i don't want too pi$$ people off (i have done that on here before), so i'll just let it be. 321. 10andJoe posted: 07.11.2012 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt may well just be being Kurt, but what "gets under our skin" is that if he said that about any /other/ religion, there'd be calls for his head from all quarters, but since it's aimed at Christians most people just chuckle and nod. 322. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2012 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, the thing about Trevor Bayne is that not much gets under his skin, which is understandable, considering what he's been through in the past three years, losing rides twice due to lack of sponsorship, winning the Daytona 500 (before he, or anyone else would be ready), and then the illness that sidelined him for nearly two months last year. And Trevor seems like a calm guy to begin with, so not much is likely to get under his skin, which may be a problem for him, because a lot of drivers have taken advantage of him for that very reason, so Kurt Busch is not the first. In fact, guys like Brad Keselowski, Justin Allgaier, and Kevin Harvick have all taken advantage of him, and it's like what was said about Joey Logano last year when guys like Harvick, Ryan Newman, and Greg Biffle were pushing him around, and that is that they're going to continue to push him around until he pushes back. Eventually, Logano did, and Trevor Bayne faces that same problem. Guys have been pushing him around, because, except for one very notable occasion, he's never pushed back. Until that happens, he will continue to be bullied. Even worse, nobody at Roush has ever come to his defense when sonmeone else has pushed him around the last couple of years (remember Keselowski and Harvick at Loudon and Richmond respectively?). yne did not even seem to have any support from his own team during those incidents. On the other hand, nobody, not even Carl Edwards, will push Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. around, because they know he'll push right back. 323. Red posted: 07.12.2012 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have my own beliefs, so what Kurt said doesn't bother me one bit. Kurt is just being Kurt." Agreed. It's funny how everyone complains about today's drivers being "vanilla", yet when one of them speaks his mind ya'll think he's an asshole who should keep his mouth shut. While I don't think taking shots at another driver's religion is necessary, it's better than another generic line of corporate, sponsor-driven bullshit. For a group that makes up the majority of the American population (78%), Christians sure have an irrational persecution complex. Here are some samples: "That might have been the most below the belt comment I've ever heard or seen quoted" Ridiculous hyperbole. Seriously, that's the WORST comment you've ever heard? "Now if Bayne said Busch needed to open his Bible, I'd react differently." Hypocrisy. If a Christian is judging someone of a different faith, it's okay. But if a non-believer is judging a Christian, it's a crime against humanity. "...if he said that about any /other/ religion, there'd be calls for his head from all quarters, but since it's aimed at Christians most people just chuckle and nod." Who are these "most people" who just chuckle and nod? Christians are the majority in this country, and almost all public officials and respected leaders are Christian, and yet you think everyone is laughing at your expense? Am I missing something? Serious question to the Christians on this board: If you truly have an unshakable faith in your God, why do you even care what a small minority of other people think? Are you really that scared that a rogue atheist is going to take down the Christian empire with a few dismissive comments? Like one poster said, Christians tend to have very thin skin, and there's no logical reason why. The Christian persecution complex is the equivalent of a heterosexual person claiming that everyone is laughing at them for being straight. With respect to Trevor Bayne specifically, he is consciously choosing to display his faith as blatantly as possible. As a public figure, he will be scrutinized for what he says and does, regardless of what that consists of, so he has to know that some people are going to react negatively to his open preaching. If, for example, he publicly professed his love for Dungeons & Dragons, lots of people would make fun of him for that, too. It's just the nature of being famous. 324. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2012 - 12:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, I wouldn't call what Busch said about Bayne, as it relates to the Bible and racing the worst comment I've ever heard, but I would call it the most below the belt comment I can ever remember hearing, regardless of sport, and I've been watching sports for over 30 years. If Busch wanted to criticize Bayne's driving, then so be it, complain about his driving. After all, Leonard Wood didn't seem too happy with him at one point after the green flag pit stops, moving over and letting people go by (perhaps Bayne didn't want to lead that group and felt they could go faster with him pushing, rather than pulling). But for Busch to say that he needed to read a Bible and see if he wanted to race after he (Busch) caused that incident with 69 laps to go for no reason was about the most below the belt comment I had ever heard, or seen quoted. ut again, as DSFF pointed out, this is one of the Busch brothers we're talking about, and as I said, from what I've seen, Bayne has more class in his finger nails than Kurt (or Kyle) have in their entire body. 325. Rob posted: 07.12.2012 - 3:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the cup cars should run the same aero package the nationwide cars run at the plate tracks. It would create more lead changes and more excitement. 326. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2012 - 5:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me, the point wasn't a "persecution complex" as some twits have pointed out. The point is that the a driver who has obviously never read his Bible was questioning the driver who is known as one of the most devout Christians in the whole sport. Now consider this forum. How many people in the last few comments said Christians are paranoid and assume everything is persecution and immediately put out insulting comments against Christians, aka persecution? People, we all want to prove out argument, but we have to do it in a way that doesn't bring our argument down. 327. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2012 - 6:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its not that Kurt took a shot at an openly devout Christian, it is that Kurt has yet again opened his mouth and taken a low blow, a personal shot at somebody. He just can't help but be a complete jerk. He has to personally attack people. And that is pretty pathetic. 328. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2012 - 6:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Score, DSFF. Everyone else on here, 0 329. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2012 - 7:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Red, I wouldn't call what Busch said about Bayne, as it relates to the Bible and racing the worst comment I've ever heard, but I would call it the most below the belt comment I can ever remember hearing, regardless of sport, and I've been watching sports for over 30 years." If that's the most below the belt comment you've ever heard in 30 years, then you either have a terrible memory or don't watch enough sports. Face it, this is just cause he made some stupid comment about the bible, and it's a driver you are biased against, so you got your panties in a knot. "Once again, it appears that Christians have the thinnest skin of any group of people on the planet." Whoa, easy there, Christians have some thin skin and a terrible sense of humor when it comes to their religion, but I'd have to say they are second to Islam in the amount of butthurt resulting from the most insignificant things. Having said that, both groups have a crazy, inexplicable persecution complex given how much power they wield worldwide. 330. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2012 - 11:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No Anonymous (#329), it's not because I have a biased opinion about the person who made the comment, because I don't. said it was the most below the belt comment, not just because it referenced the Bible, which I think should be off limits, regardless of what religion it is, but also because, as DSFF mentioned, it was also a personal attack made by one of the most classless drivers I've seen in 23 years of watching the sport made about a driver who seems to be one of those who exhibits the highest amount of class. Like I said, criticizing the driving of another competitor (even after starting a crash involving siad competitor) is one thing, but making a personal attack is all together different, and the comment Busch made was a personal attack. That's why I think it was such a below the belt remark. But it also exemplifies that there are drivers that can be taken advantage of by the bullies of the sport. I mentioned in post #324 that Bayne, as was the case with Joey Logano at about this time last year, is a driver that can be pushed around, almost with impunity. Logano was pushed around a lot last year, but when he started pushing back, there haven't been many cases of him being pushed around since then, hasn't there? But the fact that when he (Bayne) has been pushed around, especially in that #16 NNS car last year, he didn't seem to have any support from his Roush team. Until he starts pushing back and standing for himself, Bayne is going to have many of the same problems Logano did. Say what you want about Kevin Harvick, and he's one of the bullies I reference to, but if you do something to one of his teammates, at least he has your back. A good case in point is what happened after the 2010 Chase opener when Denny Hamlin questioned the vaidity of Clint Bowyer's win at Loudon. Harvick's first act at Dover was to defend his teammate, as if saying "if you mess with my teammate, you mess with me". Sure he may have taken it a bit too far, but he wanted to tell anyone else that if you messed with one of his RCR teammates, you were going to have to deal with him. I may not entirely approve of him, but the fact that he was willing to stick his neck out for a teammate tells me he's not all bad. And I think the same is true at Hendrick, although at a lower level, but at Roush, you don't see teammates sticking up for each other, do you? 331. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 07.12.2012 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Agreed. It's funny how everyone complains about today's drivers being "vanilla", yet when one of them speaks his mind ya'll think he's an asshole who should keep his mouth shut. While I don't think taking shots at another driver's religion is necessary, it's better than another generic line of corporate, sponsor-driven bullshit." Fans want the "boys have at it", sponsers want the "boys have at it when it doesn't effect us, the person that payies your salary and sponsers your car." Fans want teh stuff from the 70's, 80's and early 90's when drivers did what they had to do to settle stuff on-track. Now a days you can't do that, image is everything. Guys like Kurt can't get sponsered because of how he acts. Sponsers want "yes men" (they actually have to do to a school on how make your sponsers happy), fans want "boys have at it". So who are you going to listen too? Sponsers who advertise on you, your car, your team, someone you represent, someone who pays MILLIONS of dollars? Or someone who pays 1000's of dollars on gas, tickets, hotel rooms, drinks and food? Bill France Jr. Rest In Peace brother but fans blame you "coperatizing" the sport. Dispite the fact that your toke the resigns from your dad, you toke NASCAR to bigger and better places. Where ever you are, i hope your read this. :-P Note: NASCAR is as bad as F1 is in this respect, teams(in F1 respect)/sponsers(in NASCARs respect) control what goes on, what gets said. 332. 10andJoe posted: 07.12.2012 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Who are these "most people" who just chuckle and nod? Christians are the majority in this country, and almost all public officials and respected leaders are Christian, and yet you think everyone is laughing at your expense? Am I missing something? Apparently you've missed that if you make a comment about somebody being: male, white, straight, or Christian, it's acceptable (and in too many quarters quietly encouraged), whereas comments about any other gender, race, orientation or religion are considered bigotry and hate speech. But yes, DSFF puts it very nicely: even with any questions about religious persecution aside, this is indeed yet another case of Kurt Busch opening his mouth and inserting his foot clear up to the knee. 333. Anonymous posted: 07.12.2012 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The point is that the a driver who has obviously never read his Bible " Oh so you know him personally? Know everything about his life? Know everything he's ever done, or read, or said? Amazing. Or are you just assuming that because he doesn't always live up to what the bible says a man should be, that means he clearly has never read it? If we're going down that slippery slope, I guess 99.99% of Christians in the world have obviously never read their bible. Clearly you haven't. I can go dig up some un-Christian things you've said if we have to go down that road. Heck, just off the top of my head, you're violating the 'judge not, that ye be not judged' thing multiple times just within this discussion. Obviously you've never read your bible. And I can make that assumption about you, despite not knowing you personally, because you've already done it to Kurt Busch. Seems fair to me. 334. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2012 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Get the parts to use your real name first, then comment. Christians mess up just like anyone. I admit that. The point we are all making is that someone who has shown to have no integrity is questioning someone else's integrity by attacking the convictions that gave them that integrity. It follows no logical pattern. None. Zippo. Nada. If you're not going to use a real name so that I can't address you, I shall have to ignore your future comments. 335. I love Japan posted: 07.12.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) O_O. May i ask why we are talking about religion on a racing board? Vickers is racing next week. If he gets another top 5 I'll vomit. he might earn some respect from me if he does though. But he won't. Allmendinger is likely done now. I was expecting his cup career to end soon but not like this. I think Johnson wins the title this season. Just my prediction. Next weekend should be a good one. 336. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love Japan, we aren't talking about religion, or at least I didn't intend to. I was just pointing out what seemed to me to be a personal attack by Kurt Busch on Trevor Bayne, which just happened to be about religion. It was the personal attack that bothered me, but the fact that Busch cited the Bible made it even worse, and as I said, the biggest below the belt comment about another competitor I've heard or seen quoted in over 30 years of watching sports. Again, if you're going to criticize someone else's driving, that's one thing, even if it's a totally incorrect criticism, but to make a personal attack on another driver is as far out of bounds as the distance between where I live on the East Coast of the United States and Japan or China. 337. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2012 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love Japan, I have Vickers in the top-5 of my Cup picks in 24over48's contest :P 338. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.13.2012 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The biggest thing is this is far from the first time Kurt has taken to personally attacking people, and that nccludes his own team members. Not every conversation has to be pleasant, and people have the right to be mad, but to constantly go low like that is garbage. And don't forget, he got punched in the face in the NASCAR hauler by Tony after calling him fat. So this is nothing new. And no, he isn't the only offender. Newman is bad about it too. An underrated offender in this category? Sterling Marlin. I'm not saying he is right about some of his comments because a lot of them were wrong, but at least his made you laugh for the most part (bug eyed dummy anyone?). But some of the comments he made about Ernie after he caused The Big One at Dega in '96 (the Earnhardt wreck) about his near fatal wreck were way out of bounds. 339. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2012 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing about that situation at Talladega in 1996 was that race should proabaly never have been run on that day due to rain, and the results were one disaster after another. As for that crash, neither Irvan nor Marlin were blameless (one ran the other onto the apron) in that accident, and that was the race that we first began to see everyone blocking like crazy on the plate tracks, and the first plate race I know of that had TWO "big ones". And let's not forget that Earnhardt and Bill Elliott had an almost identical crash at Talladega in 1998, and Elliott had another crash like that soon after at Fontana (with Dale Jarrett). And DSFF, Stewart's not the only fat guy that Kurt Busch has had run-ins with (remember Jimmy Spencer?), but it's a little different when the guy you're messing with is an established champion than it is when the guy you're dealing with is just a plain bully. And beside Kurt's gesture towards Spencer at Indy in 2002, I really never saw anything in any of the episodes he had with Spencer that I would consider below the belt. In fact, I believe a lot of drivers privately liked the fact that Busch was willing to do what he did with Spencer, because many in the garage area at that time thought Spencer had that kind of thing coming to him for years, but were afraid to do it themselves. That's one reason Geoff Bodine had a lot of admiration in the garage area. He may never have been popular among those in the garage area (except for when he brought Alan Kulwicki's team back to victory lane in 1994 and after his crash in the Truck series race at Daytona in 2000), but at least he was willing to do to Dale Earnhardt what everyone else wanted to do, but was afraid to do. And that's one reason Rusty Wallace was so popular among his peers, because he was never afraid to go toe-to-toe with anyone, even Earnhardt and A.J. Foyt, and they were as tough as they came. 340. LordLowe posted: 07.13.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS you are right about The summer race in 1996 at Talladega being better off not taking place on that day. The race should have been rescheduled and moved to the next day or move it to a later date for that fall. If NASCAR had done that Earnhardt might not have gotten hurt and would not have gone into that 3 year slump during the 97-99 seasons. 341. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.13.2012 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " but at least he was willing to do to Dale Earnhardt what everyone else wanted to do" All Bodine ever did about Earnhardt was talk. That was it. All he ever did on track was give him a little swipe after The Winston in '87 was over and Dale had won which Bill Elliott did twice afterwards, and then bumped him at the Fall Charlotte race one year later for which Dale wrecked his ass (and got a 5 lap penalty). He never did shit to Earnhardt except run his mouth. The only person who ever truly stood up to Dale was Rusty unless you wanna count Rudd's '89 divebomb at Wilkesboro. Considering he did another chicken shit divebomb like that to Davey (who we lost 19 years ago today and we still miss and remember fondly) at Sears Point two years later and got black flagged for it, I'd say that was just Rudd being Rudd instead of standing up to Dale. Only Rusty stood up to him. After Bristol in '95, he threw a water bottle upside Dale's head. Afterwards Dale immediately walked up to Rusty.... to apologize for dumping him on Lap 3 of 500. If you watch the footage from the infield, you can hear Dale saying "I didn't mean to" and Rusty cussing like a sailor saying stuff like "I ain't forgetting this and I ain't forgetting Talladega" referring to Dale causing him a horrible flip two years earlier after Rusty made a half hearted block. Dale ended it by saying "we'll talk". As for the '96 Dega race, that was just plate racing. It is unfortunate that it took Dale out of that year's run for the Winston Cup (we didn't know it at the time, but Gordon was going to cough it up in an epic fashion, and although RCR was already well behind the curve by that point, if Dale was close enough, considering his closing ability, considering he damn near made up 309 points in 4 races to Gordon the previous year, and considering his other competition would have been ultra conservative drivers Terry and DJ, you would have to say he would have had a good shot at it) and made his next 3 years a write off like Jeff's '08-'10. But that is the nature of plate racing. Blocking, side drafting, getting too close, messing with the air, etc. Bad stuff will happen. 342. I love Japan posted: 07.14.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah that makes sense. Kurt needs to go to the loony bin. I think it was cool seeing burton get 2nd. I love the Dillon brothers. RCR has a bright future. I hope Vickers doesn't make me look bad x) 343. Roger posted: 07.15.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Earnhardt was surprised Elliott hit him after the Winston.....you could tell he wasn't expecting that reaction....first race I ever thought Earnhardt was truly delusional.....he obviously caused the majority of the problems at the end of that one....yet blamed everyone else but Tim Richmond had the comments of the night after the race and said what ever other driver was feeling about Earnhardt.... 344. JasonB72 posted: 07.24.2014 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Final race for Hall of Famer Bill Elliott. 345. Anonymous posted: 08.07.2015 - 11:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 23 for Robert Richardson Jr. was a Toyota, like the 3 other plate races. 346. Big Mac Fan posted: 10.12.2015 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Shouldn't Kyle Busch and Kevin Harvick be listed as "crash," since they were involved in the last lap crash and didn't complete the last lap? 347. Maverick11 posted: 02.21.2016 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4jONa-rTIr4 Here is a combined video of the 2002 Pepsi 400 big one and the 2012 Coke Zero 400 big one. Don't the two wrecks look really similar? 348. Braindead Zombie posted: 02.21.2016 - 12:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn you're right. Illuminati confirmed. 349. nascarman posted: 06.26.2016 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrawn: 22 / A.J. Allmendinger / Shell/Pennzoil / Roger Penske / Dodge 98 / Mike Bliss / Phil Parsons Racing / Mike Curb / Ford 350. Anonymous posted: 06.26.2016 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Quit f**king listing drivers who get replaced as withdrawn, the team is still there, is it not? 351. John posted: 06.26.2016 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That is correct. A withdrawal only occurs when a team leaves the track. A driver change is not a withdrawal. Withdrawals refer to the original entry list, and anything can change on that list except the car number itself. 352. Braindead Zombie posted: 06.26.2016 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think the driver changes should be listed as WDs. But since this is after all a reference site that a lot of people go to for statistics, I mean someone could come along years from now and want to see races if there was a driver change or something. So maybe make a separate category for it? Because putting it in with the WDs is misleading. 353. nascarman posted: 06.26.2016 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We just discussed the matter this morning regarding the 2003 Pontiac 400, there should be a record kept of a driver who was initially on the entry list and competed in the car in practice. While the team didn't withdraw, the driver did. It's a grey area, but it should be recorded that Allmendinger was the driver entered, not Hornish. 354. John posted: 06.26.2016 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well then we should set up a separate section of "driver changes" rather than list incorrect data. Or it could be an asterisk beside a car or driver, with an explanation at the bottom. 355. nascarman posted: 06.26.2016 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ I agree that would be best. 356. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 06.29.2016 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster. Instead of WD, for driver changes could we listed it as DC. DC 22 / A.J. Allmendinger / Shell/Pennzoil / Roger Penske / Dodge DC 98 / Mike Bliss / Phil Parsons Racing / Mike Curb / Ford 357. SK posted: 01.02.2017 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kevin and DeLana Harvick's son Keelan was born a day after this race! 358. Paul posted: 08.06.2017 - 2:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Driver changes: DC | A.J. Allmendinger | 22 | Shell / Pennzoil | Roger Penske | Dodge DC | Mike Bliss | 98 | Phil Parsons Racing | Mike Curb | Ford 359. Mile501 posted: 11.24.2019 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) During the entire 2010s decade (2010-2019), this was the only "Firecracker" 400 that ran exactly the scheduled distance of 160 laps. Of the other 9 races, 7 went into overtime and 2 were rain-shortened. 360. Rich posted: 12.06.2020 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Ralph Sheheen, Chris Neville, Matt Yocum and Marty Snider were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: