|| *Comments on the 2012 Crown Royal Presents the Curtiss Shaver 400:* View the most recent comment <#444> | Post a comment <#post> 1. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let the race name jokes begin. 2. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin blew away the field in qualyifing. On another note, I'm already sick of ESPN's history schtick with this Nationwide race. Give me the good ol' fashioned short track racing of IRP over this "historic" crapfest we are likely in for. 3. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed. Although several of these drivers may not get another chance to race here, but that's not a big deal. 4. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN's pre race: 15 Minute Danica Patrick Interview 'Oppurtunity' (In front of empty aluminum seats) 'HISTORY' Sad how far this series has fallen. 5. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Obviously they are going to spend 75% of the race focusing exclusively on Danica. I bet a lot of people are predicting she scores a convincing victory today. It will take a miracle for anything like that to happen... 6. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing that annoys me because it occurs EVERY YEAR, is the numerous mentions of the Brickyard 400 win-championship doubles that have happened. It's even more annoying when they write about it the same way every time, like they haven't mentioned it before and we would have never thought of it on our own. 7. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The crowd looks AWFUL. Another terrible idea by NASCAR. 8. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fact that the Nationwide series is racing here now has me fully convinced a decade or so from now the Cup and Nationwide schedules will be exactly identical. Who else here thinks they'll announce Nationwide races at Pocono in the very near future? I foresee that happening. 9. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RIP NASCAR Grand National Series. 10. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN must love that the historic Kyle Busch led the first historic lap at the historic Indianapolis Motor Speedway. 11. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Should be at IRP. Marty Reid is so terrible. He couldn't even remember Andy Petree's name as they were introducing themselves. I'm expecting Kyle to runaway with this. 12. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They just HAD to take off IRP, a track that's been with the series ever since the modern incarnation in 1982. 13. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2012 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The greatest tracks in the world, Indy and Darlington... raped by Brian France. 14. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cup drivers 1 2 3 5 6 7, oppurtunity lol. 15. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Glad I am sitting in here in a pizza place in Myrtle Beach where I can't hear their commentary. On a positive note, on the same weekend Trevor Bayne is running the old candy apple red Wood Brothers #21 paint scheme, at a flea market I found a 1/64 diecast of their early 60's Ford driven by Marvin "Pancho" Panch along with a lot of other old NASCAR collectibles. Now I will sit back tonight and watch some awesome short track racing with classic beating and banging at IRP sit here and watch the Historic Inaugural Indiana Aluminum Bleacher 250. 16. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #12 Well, as we already know, NASCAR is more interested in gaining money rather than tradition, otherwise they would have never taken the Labor Day race away from Darlington. I can easily see why some people would call them "NA$CAR". It's like the sport is deliberately trying to sever all ties to its past. 17. Mr X posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All the companies in the entire world are missing out on advertising themselves on the GIGANTIC empty canvas that are the IMS grandstands. Paint the seats to make a huge logo of your company next year. I predict Kyle Busch will dominate the Empty Seat 250 presented by the State of Indiana. 18. Spen posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Backing up a bit for those who didn't catch the end of last weeks page, it was discovered that under F1's point system, David Pearson would indeed have won the title in 1973. I am rather curious how a year like 2002 would have turned out. 19. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I had a dime for every Marty Reid commentary goof, I'd buy a large share of the network and... 20. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll at least say this, the crowd looks okay in the turn one grandstands. Probably because that is the only place you can see anything because of the pit road grandstands (worst idea in racing). 21. Mr X posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If aluminum seats could talk....(interpret this how you like) 22. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) turn 1 e penthouse and box are actually some of the smallest capacity grandstands around the track, not to mention they're highly valued because of their view. 23. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Give me the good ol' fashioned short track racing of IRP over this "historic" crapfest we are likely in for." Amen. Give me the short track action of IRP over IMS any day of the year. 24. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Kurt Meltdown Alert* 25. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, when you calculated 1973 with the F1 system, did you use the "less than 75% completed, half points" rule, or were there no rainout races? 26. Mr X posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^If Kurt does have a meltdown they may have to evacuate all of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, Oh wait... 27. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All 3 of them. 28. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm missing it, why is Kurt melting down? 29. Mr X posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt got mad beacuse he ran into another driver on pitroad who was going very slowly. 30. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something happened in the pits, and then they played one of his typical bleeped up radio transmissions afterwards. 31. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Posting information that pertains to this race: The #98 team's time got thrown out, so they will miss the race and the #19 team will race on Sunday. 32. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad that Phil StartandParksons' car gets kicked out. But the #19 will just S&P too, so meh... 33. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, it's only lap 35? 34. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica done, at least that hype machine is gone. 35. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) THERE IT IS!!!! 7 CAR IN THE WALL!!!! 36. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice move Danica... 37. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 98 car backed up the corner? Are you serious, Danica's spotter? You've gotta be kidding me!!!! She totally just piledrove him!!!! 38. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watch 'em try and blame Sorenson for this, Marty Mouse and company wouldn't be true GoDaddy Girl fanboys if they didn't. 39. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh no, Danica has been crashed out! Whatever will ESPN do without having her out there on the track to talk about? 40. Mr X posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watch half the crowd leave do to Danica being out. Thats my last joke over attendance. 41. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The username "David" who posted on the ARCA race page today is not me. Just posting that because there's nothing else to say, I'm not watching the race. 42. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ty Dillon is having a great run in the 51 car. Also, it appears Kurt Busch is done with an electrical problem. 43. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I absolutely love how ESPN is making this out to be a great historical event and a moment to be proud of for the Nationwide Series. HAH! I don't blame you David for not watching this race...honestly I've been having more fun playing Solitaire on my computer than watching the half of the race so far I actually watched. 44. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mr X, we cannot possibly make enough attendance jokes! 45. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yawn...zzz...zzz...zzz...is it over yet?" 46. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tomorrow it will be attendance and race name jokes, hence the first comment. 47. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just curious, what lap is it? 48. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spa 24 Hour race at Night in wet=awesome. This Nationwide 'race'=crap 49. cjs3872 posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, as sparse as the attendance appears to be, I'd say that there are more people at this race than attend a Nationwide race at Charlotte, whcih has been one of the series' biggest stops for many years. If I had to estimate the attendance, I'd estimate it at about 50,000. But the cavernous stands at IMS may make the crowd appear smaller than it actually is. That's why, even if they get 150,000-180,000 at Indy, it will look like a small crowd. I'd say that the size of the crowd is what I expected it to be. 50. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, this race is really called the "Indy 250"? So, basically, they hyped this up as probably the biggest NNS race ever, but they couldn't even get a sponsor for it? I don't know why I'm surprised at this. Brian France, kudos. 51. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, now that I think about it, I like Indy 250 a lot more than Crown Royal Your Hero's Name Here 400 At The Brickyard Presented Crown Royal At Indianapolis on ESPN. 52. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like 40-50k there, smaller than carb day crowds but bigger than i500 pole day crowds, still a complete joke with 257,000 seats. Not to mention the 10,000 people at indy for grand am yesterday. 53. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Danica Patrick is involved in a hard crash after she shoves Reed Sorenson into Turn 1." That came from NASCAR.com's Lap-By-Lap. A most correct diagnosis, at that. 54. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually I can't say for sure, I didn't see the crash. 55. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And as we come back here the caution flag has just flied... flown." - Marty Reid 56. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or... "Crown Royal presents the Curtiss Shaver 400 powered by BigMachineRecords.com at the Brickyard on ESPN. Telecast powered by Golden Corral" 57. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb, remember, it's the Crown Royal presents the Curtiss Shaver 400 at the Brickyard powered by Bigmachinerecords.com during the Kroger Superweekend at the Brickyard on ESPN. 58. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) and of course, the Telecast is presented by Golden Corral. 59. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) haha, My bad, TeamPlayers. They finally mention Johanna as she loses a tire on pit road. 60. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or is it the Crown Royal presents the third and final race of the Kroger Super Weekend at the Brickyard, Curtiss Shaver 400 powered by BigMachineRecords.com on ESPN powered by Golden Corral. 61. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OR is it the "Crown Royal presents the third and final race of the first annual Kroger Super Weekend at the Brickyard, the Curtiss Shaver 400 powered by BigMachineRecords.com on ESPN. Telecast powered by Golden Corral."? 62. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Mouthful 400. Sounds about right to me. 63. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sure. I'll go along with that. 64. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Why The Hell Didn't We Run at IRP On Saturday Night 400. 65. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The "Brian France is an Idiot 400". Oh whoops, did I type that? 66. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle spins. 67. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The "$$$ 400" 68. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BS race fixing 69. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR being inconsistent with their rules, as usual. 70. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR has become a disgrace of a sport and a sanctioning body. 71. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why is NASCAR black-flagging Sadler? I've seen MUCH worse go with no penalty. 72. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch did the EXACT SAME THING minus a push from behind, and got away with it. ///WWE 73. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They want a Cup driver to win at Indy, so it would seem... 74. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Total BS. First of all, the 12 car had the 22 car jacked up, so that slowed up the whole inside line. Also, the 3 car was all over Elliott's bumper. There was nothing Elliott could do. Once again, Brian France, kudos. 75. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch did the same thing at the start with no penelty. NASCAR is a disgrace. 76. joey2448 posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is so bullshit! Austin Dillon was pushing Sadler, there was no way Sadler could back off on that restart! 77. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Further rape by Brian France; race-fixing, pure and simple. 78. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Still don't think NASCAR is a joke? This race should change your mind. 79. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of the NASCAR WWE comparison just made...am I the only one who could see NASCAR trying to introduce WWE-type "storylines" into the sport at some point in the future? I could ALMOST buy NASCAR trying something like that for ratings... 80. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If there was any question that NASCAR was inconsistent with their rules, that question was just answered. 81. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too late, Schroeder; it's started. 82. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F-ing NASCAR cost me the win in the predictor cup. 83. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR penalties are just like in their joke of a sports car series known as 'Grand' Am. 84. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This latest bonehead call by NASCAR will probably give a Cup driver, the Dillon brothers, or Travis Pastrana a better chance of victory. 85. Draco (Candraco) posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Me too NRF... cost me big... 86. Draco (Candraco) posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) by the way NRF check your email. I got the blog up. 87. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Elliot Sadler for winning the first Nationwide race at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. 88. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol at ESPN saying Brad's name is there with the greats who won at Indy. Even Brad fans would laugh at that. 89. joey2448 posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jayski should come up with a total for the number of times the word "history" was used in this Nationwide broadcast. 90. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Elliott Sadler, congratulations. You showed NASCAR how to make another bad call. 91. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LOL, ESPN comparing this 'win' to Ray Harroun, Jeff Gordon and Michael Schumacher's 92. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm a Brad fan, and I am extremely pissed off. I'm afraid that in a couple of years, I'm not gonna be watching this stuff. It baffles me how inconsistent these idiots are with their rules. Fortunately, the IndyCar Series seems to (hopefully) be on its way back to how it was before the original split back in the mid 90s, so at least I'll have that to watch. But I really am starting to dislike Nascar more and more as this year goes on. For the third time today, kudos to you, Mr. Brian France. 93. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Because NASCAR can't stand it if the same Nationwide driver wins two straight. 94. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Draco, two thumbs up! :) BZF, two thumbs down! \_/ 95. Baker posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Points battled tightened up a little at least. 96. Schroeder51 posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hard fought, well-earned victory" my ass ESPN. 97. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael Annett won the dash for cash! haha 98. joey2448 posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll say, Michael Annett has really impressed lately... 99. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, Michael Annett won the Dash 4 Cash. Good for him though. That team has been really good the past few races. It would be cool to see them get a win before the year is over. 100. Crash McGehee posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 100! 101. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This entire Nationwide event was a disgrace as far as I'm concerned. Brian France continues to ruin this sport and series. ESPN managed to be even worse with their lame ass history schtick. I about puked when they seriously tried put Brad's name with the legends who have won here before. Maybe if he wins tommorrow, but even then. This track is historic for open racing, not NASCAR. 102. murb posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, I couldn't agree with you more. 103. Rusty posted: 07.28.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only positives from this race, Michael Annett continues to impress. Also, the 4/51 swap fro Jeremy Clements to allow Ty Dillon to race worked great for everyone. Dillon finished 3rd and Clements got a rare top 10 in 10th. 104. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske somehow finishes one-two in this race. Oh wait a minute... 105. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No interview with Sadler, what a joke. 106. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad, I'm a fan of yours and I hope you can win tomorrow's race, but you were handed this win. 107. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN: Oh my God, history! Fewest cautions, lead changes, cars, laps led by a winner, and caution laps in an NNS race at Indy Most cautions, lead changes, cars, laps led by a winner, and caution laps in an NNS race at Indy Best and worst finish by Danica Oh my goodnes, history! *Sounds of vomiting on TV followed by hammer being thrown at TV* 108. David posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF, it is too bad that all that gets you is a disgusting, broken TV. 109. Spen posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David: Oops, I forgot about the 75% rule. Fortunately, it doesn't really matter, as the only rain shortened race was Martinsville, which was only shortened by 20 laps. 110. Mr X posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congratulations to Brad Keselowski for winning the ever so coveted and historic inaugural Empty Seat 250. Maybe tomorrow he can make history again by winning the 18th and even more historical and coveted Crown Royal presents the Curtiss Shaver Why The Hell Didn't We Run at IRP On Saturday Night Brian France is an Idiot $$$ 400(feels like 4000) at the Brickyard powered by Bigmachinerecords.com during the Kroger Superweekend at the Brickyard on ESPN. Imagine the history, he would be compared to Andretti, Foyt, Unser, Mears and all the greats that actually won coveted events at Indy in front of actual people as opposed to seats. What world is Brian France living in? 111. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mr. X: Mamby-pamby land... I think. I feel like a troll for commenting this much. I am guessing maybe 10,000 people. I have only seen Rolex, CTSCC, and Indy Lights races with fewer people. 112. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most people estimated Rolex at 5k yesterday. 113. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) From Jeff Gluck: "Sadler says NASCAR just told him he did NOT jump the startâ?¦. ?" WTF?! 114. joey2448 posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I must say, I found the Grand-Am race yesterday to be more interesting than the Nationwide race. The actual racing in the Nationwide race wasn't too bad, but IRP would've been better. 115. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR: Sadler did NOT jump restart but he DID beat No 1 starter to line." "Diff than start of race bc leader 'did not go' at start of race, NASCAR says." Complete sham. 116. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.28.2012 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad didn't get going, Elliott did. There was no way that deserved a penalty. 117. richiesbx137 posted: 07.28.2012 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the Race was not bad....but the crowd was bad and I agree with most of the crowd here. They should be at NNS. Also Sadler got screwed, he got pushed should have got the win and the 100k...I wonder how the crowd will be tomorrow that is my real question. Also, I am thinking should they do a Indy (NASCAR) speedweeks, IRP the weekend before the Brickyard, (basically NNS, and TRUCKS) and then all the Brickyard races the following weekend. Remember there is a open week before the Brickyard historically for the CUP cars. So use that weekend for the other series. 118. JG24FanForever posted: 07.28.2012 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If any of you need a true value of this race: I would compare Brad's win with Jeff Gordon's 16th place finish in the Brickyard 400 in 2006 as to what it's worth. 119. richiesbx137 posted: 07.28.2012 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) oops typo should be at IRP...My mistake here. 120. LordLowe posted: 07.28.2012 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Brian France lives in Nonsense Land 121. JG24FanForever posted: 07.28.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) you guy's know I have to do this. Brickyard 400 Laps led Top 12 1. Jeff Gordon 476(Master of Master's) 2. Tony Stewart 227 3. Juan Montoya 202? 4. Dale Jarrett 186 5. Bill Elliott 157 6. Rusty Wallace 148 7. Jimmie Johnson 130 8. Jeff Burton 123 9. Ernie Irvan 114 10.Kevin Harvick 92 11.Kasey Kahne 88 12.Elliott Sadler 76?? contradicting stats: Mark Martin has 6 Top 5's but no wins and led only 67 laps. Jimmie Johnson has 3 wins but only 4 Top 10's and an average finish of 18.4. Juan Montoya finished 2nd in his debut in 2007 and it's his only Top 10, and his average finish of 22.4 is in complete contrast to leading 202 laps at a 2.5 half mile Giant. 122. JG24FanForever posted: 07.28.2012 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brickyard 400 "Gold Standard"(Top 6)finishes: Top 10 1. Jeff Gordon--12 2. Mark Martin--8 3. Tony Stewart--7 4. Dale Jarrett--5 4. Matt Kenseth--5 4. Rusty Wallace--5 4. Bill Elliott--5 8. Bobby Labonte--4 8. Jamie McMurray--4 10.Dale Earnhardt--3 10.Jimmie Johnson--3 10.Greg Biffle--3 Why is Mark Martin so great and so bad at the same time? 123. 10andJoe posted: 07.28.2012 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Further rape by Brian France Can we not have comments like this please? I have a close friend who had to deal with rape several times (in-relationship (since out of said relationship, thank God)), and using that term in this context is VERY inappropriate. 124. richiesbx137 posted: 07.28.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is how I feel Sadler got screwed on a judgemental call. He should have won this race and the 100,000 dollars as well. As well I feel the racing was not bad at all. To me the crowd was a joke but expected. 40k was not a surprise to me at all. I want to see how the crowd will expect tomorrow. Ty Dillion surprised me by finishing third and Michael Annette got the 100,000 dollars not a bad race but the crowd was awful. As for people flaming on both races and the track it ain't going nowhere the drivers want to race this racetrack plus the history of the racetrack. I believe it will not fill the 257,325 people plus the infield like in the past the economy and tire-gate pissed every one off in 2008 and can be blamed for the decline. Also the tickets are expensive I think it will hit 150,000 to 170,000 in future years. In addition if Indy gets dropped there will be NO NASCAR racing in Indiana because there is NO CURRENT races in IRP. I want to see IRP back on the schedule as well. Hell they should be racing tonight. My suggestion is make a Indy Speedweeks, similar to Daytona and Charlotte, place the nationwide and truck races in IRP the week before the Brickyard when the cup is off, then the drivers can race the dirt tracks like eldora and local tracks during the week then the race the grand am sports car, nationwide and cup at IMS it will be a win for all fans plus is in the summer so it would not be as bad. And its a win for racing. 125. richiesbx137 posted: 07.28.2012 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @10andJoe I agree whomever put rape it's wrong and should not be expressed here at all. It's too sensitive for people who has real problems. 126. cjs3872 posted: 07.28.2012 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richiesbx137, I again want to state the sharp decline in attendance at Indy has to do with several things. Remember that the tire fiasco in the 2008 Brickyard 400 was the track's second in the five years after it was ground (the other being the 2005 USGP). Prior to that, tires had not been a factor at Indy since the days of the roadsters with the skinny tires those cars ran. I've always believed the track should have shouldered a lot of the blame for that. And let's not forget that the malaise of the Midwest racing fans also hit the Indianapolis 500 this year with a 25% drop in attendance from 300,000 to 220,000), so maybe the track should get me blame than anyone is putting on it. You're also right that IMS is probably the world's worst track when it comes to watching a race. But the plain truth is that IRP is not up to snuff as far as the facilities go, and never really has been. NASCAR actually wanted to move that Nationwide race to the Brickyard about 10-12 years ago, but was rebuffed by Tony George. NASCAR knew that IRP was not up to standards as far as the facilities are concerned. And I don't really think that IMS will ever get back to what it was, because people know how bad that place is to watch a race from. People have always gone there for the events, and just to be there. And again, if they drew 150,000 at IMS, that would look like a small crowd, and only the Daytona 500 gets a larger crowd ong NASCAR races, and even that race has a hard time selling out any more, and even the Daytona 500 has seen it's attendance figures drop about 15-20% from 2005 and 2006, when a record 200,000 attended. Last year, there were "only" 182,000 there, and it has gotten as low as 175,000. And another crown jewel, the Coca-Cola 600, has been having a hard time getting more than 100,000 people, when it used to get 150,000 people, and today's crowd for the Nationwide race, as small as it looked, is still bigger than what they've been getting at Charlotte for the Nationwide races there. 127. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, apologies for my agressive language. You are right that it was an inappropriate word to use for the reasons you stated. 128. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the sake of boredom waiting on the Gp2 event at Hungary I wanna make a stupid Favorite racing drivers list. please somebody else(cjs3872)make your own list too. My favorite racing drivers Top 12 1. Jeff Gordon 2. Jimmie Johnson 3. Fernando Alonso 4. Curtis Turner 5. John Force 6. Tazio Nuvolari 7. Jim Clark 8. Dale Earnhardt 9. Jackie Stewart 10.Bobby Allison 11.Lee Shepherd 12.David Pearson Johnson is my no. 2, but to be honest I love to see him fail and be beaten by Gordon more than any other driver. 129. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Revised list: 1. Jeff Gordon 2. Jimmie Johnson 3. Fernando Alonso 4. Curtis Turner 5. John Force 6. Tazio Nuvolari 7. Jim Clark 8. Dale Earnhardt 9. Jackie Stewart 10.Bobby Allison 11.Lewis Hamilton 12.David Pearson 130. Anthony posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No cautions in the Cup race, I reckon its a real chance. Other than a Bruton Smith caution there won't be any self spins or crashes in this race. 131. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 7:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24, you watch the GP2 races too? I thought I was the only American watching. My 12 favorites: 1. Fred Lorenzen 2. Jeff Gordon 3. The Alabama Gang as a whole 4. David Pearson 5. Ricky Rudd 6. Nico Rosberg 7. James Hinchcliffe 8. Alex Tagliani 9. James Hylton 10. Stirling Moss 11. Hurley Haywood 12. Petter Solberg 132. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan,yeah I watch them to hype up the F1 race. I love your list, especially with James Hylton on there, and cool to see someone who still appreciates Fred Lorenzen. 133. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan,am I the only one that thought it was pathetic when Vettel told his crew that he's faster than Button and "do something about it"? 134. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 9:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well folks, it is race morning for the Crown Royal Presents The Curtis Shaver 400 at The Brickyard. So what do you guys think will happen? Will Jeff Gordon win a record extending 5th Crown Royal Presents the Curtis Shaver 400 at The Brickyard to go along with his other 4 which includes what he considers his biggest win, in 1994 when he won the inaugural Crown Royal Presents the Curtiss Shaver 400 at The Brickyard? Will JJ tie Jeff for most wins in the Crown Royal Presents the Curtiss Shaver 400 at The Brickyard? Or, after 15 wins in the Indianapolis 500 presented by GoDaddy, will The Captain finally win the Crown Royal Presents the Curtiss Shaver 400 at The Brickyard? Yesterday Brad made history. He won the inaugural Indiana Aluminum Seat 250 at The Brickyard present by Golden Corrall. Also, he made history when he kissed the bricks by pointing his ass higher up in the air than anyone else in the last 15 or so years that has kissed the bricks, either winners of the Crown Royal Presents the Curtiss Shaver 4000 at The Brickyard or Indianapolis 500 presented by GoDaddy. 135. Baker posted: 07.29.2012 - 11:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 12 Favorites: 1. Davey Allison 2. Tony Stewart 3. A.J. Foyt 4. Jac Haunschild 5. Dave Blaney 6. Steve Kinser 7. Tim Richmond 8. Sammy Swindell 9. Bobby Allison 10. Herb Thomas 11. Rich Vogal 12. Kasey Kahne Mines way different bc I'm a huge dirt track fan. 136. David posted: 07.29.2012 - 12:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trivia time: When did the tradition of kissing the bricks after the Brickyard 400 start, and who started it? 137. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #136 Ricky Rudd? 1997 138. Baker posted: 07.29.2012 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jarrett was involved. Dunno what year or how it came about but I remember watching it. 139. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 12:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jarrett 1996 then, because Ricky Rudd also did it in 1997. 140. Mr X posted: 07.29.2012 - 12:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 12 Favourites: 1. Ayrton Senna 2. Jeff Gordon 3. Dale Earnhardt 4. Kimi Raikkonen 5. Jackie Stewart 6. Gilles Villeneuve 7. A.J. Foyt 8. Patrick Depailler 9. Jimmie Johnson 10. Cale Yarborough 11. David Pearson 12. Michael Schumacher To be honest other then the top 4 any of those drivers could be replaced by others whom I haven't mentioned, or the order could change. I would love to see lists from you all of your favourite race cars and commentators of all time. 141. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My top 12 Favourites? 1. Juan Manuel Fangio 2. Jimmy Clarke 3. A.J. Foyt 4. David Pearson 5. Mika Hakkinen 6. Kimi Raikkonen 7. Richard Petty 8. Tim Richmond 9. Jeff Gordon 10. Dale Earnhardt 11. Ayrton Senna 12. Tony Stewart 142. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My(no # or order)favorite Commentators David Hobbs Ned Jarrett Buddy Baker Benny Parsons Alan Bestwick Chris Econmaki Ken Squier Steve Evans(NHRA) Bob Frye(NHRA) 143. 18fan posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 12 Favorite Drivers: 1. Kamui Kobayashi 2. Kyle Busch 3. Keke Rosberg 4. Gerhard Berger 5. Matt Kenseth 6. Bobby Allison 7. David Pearson 8. Ayrton Senna 9. Dale Earnhardt 10. Brad Keselowski 11. Kimi Raikkonen 12. Tony Stewart 144. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN: "There is only ONE Speedway" 145. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm already sick of ESPN and the green flag hasn't fallen. I hate their stupid little video segmets, they are cheesy and don't get anyone pumped up. They do it for the NFL too, and it is just terrible. But anyways, lets get on with the Crown Royal presents the Curtiss Shaver 400 presented by BigMachineRecords.com and powered by Golden Corral who welcomes you to try their new chocolate fountain and tropical island grill! Race day! 146. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm already sick of ESPN and the green flag hasn't fallen. I hate their stupid little video segmets, they are cheesy and don't get anyone pumped up. They do it for the NFL too, and it is just terrible. But anyways, lets get on with the Crown Royal presents the Curtiss Shaver 400 presented by BigMachineRecords.com and powered by Golden Corral who welcomes you to try their new chocolate fountain and tropical island grill! Race day! 147. joey2448 posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, I love your sarcastic posts. I am switching between the Brickyard, Hungarian Grand Prix and the Summer Olympics right now. Too many things to watch, haha! 148. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's amazing how much better ESPN seems when they have Allen in the booth instead of Marty "I forget my broadcast colleagues' names" Reid. 149. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look at Jeff Gluck's pictures of the crowd on twitter, I doubt there are 100k there today, I don't care what NASCAR estimates. 150. David posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You mean Mistakes Reid. 151. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl's blowing up. Chase hopes are done. 152. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, I just wanted to add in my 12 favorite racers, as a lot of you did earlier. 1. Tony Kanaan 2. Jeff Burton 3. Ken Schrader 4. Alex Zanardi 5. Ernie Irvan 6. Scott Sharp 7. Sterling Marlin 8. Dan Wheldon 9. Kevin Harvick 10. Kasey Kahne 11. Bill Elliott 12. Mark Webber 153. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #152 Fun list. It screams "underdog" 154. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I say Jeff Gordon gets back on top tonight. He's usually not very motivated happy with his family life all that he accomplished in racing. But he's sick of this bad luck and he doesn't want the guy who has beaten him all these years to tie his Indy wins record. Indy means too much to him. My money is on Gordon. 155. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24, Vettel's a whiny brat. Lots of aluminum... Anyone else notice that ESPN is calling it the Brickyard 400? And is anyone else getting annoyed by the fact that the ticker on the top has Kes's number slanted wrong? 156. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Crowd looks bleh and the race, to nobody's surprise, is boring. The Crown Royal presents the Curtiss Shaver 400 presented by BigMachineRecords.com and powered by Golden Corral who welcomes you to try their new chocolate fountain and tropical island grill! is such a disappointment. 157. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Carl's blowing up. Chase hopes are done." They were done before today. "It's amazing how much better ESPN seems when they have Allen in the booth instead of Marty "I forget my broadcast colleagues' names" Reid." I like Marty Reid actually. Atleast Rusty "Flat Flying" Wallace doesn't talk much during the cup races. Or Darrell "Brian Vickers hasn't raced in over a year" Waltrip. Speaking of FOX the guy who created Digger and the guy who decided to keep Waltrip and Larry Mcreynolds just got a huge promotion from Fox. I think he's now the head guy for Fox's NASCAR racing coverage. Even Buddy Baker couldn't hide his disappointment when I was listening to him on the radio. 158. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks JG24Fan... And Nico, I'm absolutely annoyed by them having the 2 car's number slanted wrong!!! Jimmie looks pretty fast. The 48 will definitely be contender later on barring a problem. 159. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another aero-festival 160. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't mean to sound so harsh or negative. I just hate Darrell Waltrip's commentary with a passion. 161. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder how many people are actually going to call that phone number on the new Danica Nationwide commercial. 162. David posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't read too much into this, I may have left out a few: 1. Jeff Gordon 2. Richard Petty 3. Clint Bowyer 4. Trevor Bayne 5. Fred Lorenzen 6. Neil Bonnett 7. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 8. Bobby Allison 9. A.J. Allmendinger (I know, I know) 10. Bobby Labonte 11. James Hinchcliffe? 12. Regan Smith I may post a revised list after I have given it some serious thought. 163. Schroeder51 posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude: The only thing that could be worse than Darrell Waltrip's commentary would be if Michael got promoted to the FOX booth full time alongside him. I can foresee this happening... 164. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not really Nico, I am annoyed by the fact the Brad is running like crap. He never does all that great the day after NWide wins. Wonder if he can make it 400 miles without speeding on pit road. Looks to be a long day for everyone not named "Jimmie Johnson" and for all fans who don't pull for somebody named "Jimmie Johnson". Oh well, back to the Lowe's Presents The Jimmie Johnson 400 powered by Kobalt Tools. 165. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, I actually like Marty too. I have a lot of respect for what he's done in motorsports. His farewell salute to Dan Wheldon at the tragic Vegas race last year was one of the classiest things I've ever heard. But he is just so painful to listen to sometimes, especially in yesterday's race. I guess he was just overexcited for the "historic" first NNS race at Indy. I agree with you on how Fox is starting to fall a long ways. DW and Larry are turning more and more into clowns like Rusty has been in the booth for several years. My favorite has to be TNT (if only they would get rid of so many damn commercials). Wally and Kyle tell it like it is. It disappoints me that Fox is trying to buy away their TV rights. 166. David posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with the recent Reid comments, in spite of my last comment "Mistakes Reid". 167. Schroeder51 posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 12...That might be difficult, but let me see... 1. Jeff Gordon 2. Rick Mears 3. Dale Earnhardt 4. Richard Petty 5. Alan Kulwicki 6. Danny Sullivan 7. Benny Parsons 8. Jamie McMurray 9. Steve Kinser 10. Johnny Rutherford 11. Ernie Irvan 12. Harry Gant 168. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN slanting Brad's number wrong is starting to bother me now too. ESPN really sucks. 169. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good call by Paul Wolfe, got them track position and gave Brad less chances to speed in the pits. 170. Schroeder51 posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Having DW in the booth is rot too dissimilar to what it would be like to have Homer Simpson in the booth if you ask me... I dislike Marty Reid as a commentator myself, but I do have some respect for him for how he handled the news of Dan Wheldon's death last year. Very professional. Still, he can really get on my nerves as well. 171. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Horrible restart by Hamlin. 172. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) '12345Dude: The only thing that could be worse than Darrell Waltrip's commentary would be if Michael got promoted to the FOX booth full time alongside him. I can foresee this happening...' I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't mind Michael Waltrip on commentary. I'd say he is below average but I don't mind him. '12345Dude, I actually like Marty too. I have a lot of respect for what he's done in motorsports. His farewell salute to Dan Wheldon at the tragic Vegas race last year was one of the classiest things I've ever heard. But he is just so painful to listen to sometimes, especially in yesterday's race. I guess he was just overexcited for the "historic" first NNS race at Indy. I agree with you on how Fox is starting to fall a long ways. DW and Larry are turning more and more into clowns like Rusty has been in the booth for several years. My favorite has to be TNT (if only they would get rid of so many damn commercials). Wally and Kyle tell it like it is. It disappoints me that Fox is trying to buy away their TV rights.' I didn't know they were trying to buy their rights. And yes I agree about TNT. I couldn't agree more on how awesome Marty's farwell salute was. 173. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DW is awful, he mustly just makes corny jokes and awkwardly touches Hammond and Larry Mac. 174. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Forgot I can't use quotes sorry 175. 10andJoe posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...did I just hear Bob Jenkins over the IMS P.A. system in the background of the broadcast? 176. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah 10andJoe, Bob is the track announcer at Indy when he isn't doing the IndyCar stuff on NBC Sports. He's supposedly retiring from tv broadcasting at the end of this year, but I think he is still gonna do PA stuff at Indy. 177. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go JEFF! 178. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth and Jr's tandem draft down the backstretch was the coolest thing that has happened all day. 179. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bob Jenkins RULES!!!!!! As a Brad fan I am thrilled by this, but as a NASCAR fan, this is what is wrong with the sport. He started 20th and languished there until the best crew chief out there got him up front with pit strategy. Now he is running with the leaders, staying ahead of those that were Top 5 all day and even repassing Biffle. 180. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just a random question. Does anyone on here think NASCAR track pass is a good deal? I can listen to the in car radios of four drivers every week and that's for free. I'm not really sure if I should get it next year. 181. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Top 12 Least favorite drivers: 1. Sterling Marlin 2. Matt Kenseth 3. Vitaly Petrov 4. Ricky Rudd 5. Sebastian Vettel 6. Speedy Thompson 7. Geoff Bodine 8. Danica Patrick 9. Michael Waltrip 10.Kevin Conway 11.Ryan Newman 12.Clint Bowyer 182. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24 why are Sterling Marlin and Matt Kenseth in the top 2 spots? I would say they both seem to be very nice people. 183. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just realized that ESPN's version of the 2 looks like the old AC-Delco #2 that Harvick and Johnny Sauter used to drive. Even though it was under green flag stop conditions, it was cool to see Bobby leading a race again. 184. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #182 I don't mean to put them in a negative light,I just don't cottan to them at all. 185. joey2448 posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's time...to queue the duck... 186. Dave#38Fan posted: 07.29.2012 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) holy $&$# they just showed stephen leicht on tv during pitstops, the first tv time he has had all season other than being lapped by the leaders or heading to the garage in the opening laps. he's giving wise a run for rookie of the year. 187. Schroeder51 posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bottom 12: 1. Michael Waltrip 2. Kevin Conway 3. Dario Franchitti 4. Kyle Busch 5. Sebastian Vettel 6. Danica Patrick 7. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 8. Phil Parsons 9. Kurt Busch 10. Kevin Harvick 11. Darrell Waltrip (Primarily because his bad commentary has hindered my view of him overall) 12. Michael Schumacher 188. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have TrackPass and I think it is a good deal. You can switch between all drivers' radios and follow any of them virtually. Sometimes it drives me nuts cause the GPS always seems to be temporarily down in the most important moments, but overall I recommend it. 189. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My bottom twelve: 1. Kyle Busch 2. Danica Patrick 3. Kurt Busch 4. Fernando Alonso 5. Lewis Hamilton 6. Felipe Massa 7. Brad Keselowski (sorry DSFF) 8. Kevin Harvick 9. Denny Hamlin 10. Joey Logano 11. Dario Franchitti 12. Scott Dixon There are too many drivers whose character DQ's from deserving to be in the sport, so that just touches the tip of the iceberg. 190. Baker posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are 41 drivers in this field trying to hand this race to Johnson. Only Gordon is trying to out race him. 191. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty "Particular" Wallace 192. Daniel posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 12 favorite: 1. Bill Elliott 2. Dave Blaney 3. Ken Schrader 4. Jennifer Jo Cobb 5. Jimmy Spencer 6. Sterling Marlin 7. Rick Crawford 8. Morgan Shepherd 9. Ricky Rudd 10. Sarah Fisher 11. Tony Kanaan 12. Robby Gordon Top 12 least favorite: 1. Danica Patrick 2. Dale Earnhardt 3. Kyle Busch 4. Joey Logano 5. Kurt Busch 6. Kevin Harvick 7. Brad Keselowski 8. Todd Bodine 9. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 10. Brad Keselowski 11. Jimmie Johnson 12. Denny Hamlin 193. LordLowe posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lets see what bad luck strikes Gordon this time 194. Schroeder51 posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski twice on your least favorites list? 195. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn it. 31 blew a tire. 196. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course, Gordon has a terrible final pitstop. 197. Daniel posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #194, That was a slip of the brain. #10 is Dario Franchitti. Followed by Johnson and Hamlin. 198. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now for the JG-screw-out-of-win of the week... 199. Schroeder51 posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Earnhardt Jr.-NASCAR's new points leader. If Jr. actually won the championship, do you think fan attendance would start shooting up again? I have a feeling it would have some effect... 200. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No wonder the drivers have been so conservative this year, everytime a car wrecks the engine catches fire. Anyone else notice this? 201. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tough break for Matt, but it is ironic that he gets taken out by his future race car. Judging by how they were racing before, this restart will be wild. 202. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon had to restart on the outside(which always screws Gordon)then Jimmie J blew the restart backing Gordon way up, but at least he restarts on the inside. 203. Baker posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Least favorites: 1. Jimmie Johnson 2. Paul Menard 3. Dario Franchitti 4. Darrell Waltrip 5. Kurt Busch 6. Ron Hornaday Jr. 7. Jack Sprague 8. Todd Bodine 9. Juan Montoya 10. Marcos Ambrose 11. Robby Gordon 12. Elliott Sadler 204. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junior Nation is gonna show up no matter what and cheer wildly for him no matter what, even if he is in 14th place passing a car 4 laps down (I saw this at Darlington). 205. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, Tony is gonna morph back into Smoke Circa 2004 if people keep blocking. 206. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another snorefest at Indy. 207. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank you Hendrick for hating my driver. Sincerely, The dead fish on your front step 208. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really hate this season this race and Gordon having to restart on the f**king outside!! I'm genuinely sick of this bullshit season. 209. Schroeder51 posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I bet we get another caution and Gordon ends up finishing outside the top 10. 210. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have TrackPass and I think it is a good deal. You can switch between all drivers' radios and follow any of them virtually. Sometimes it drives me nuts cause the GPS always seems to be temporarily down in the most important moments, but overall I recommend it." Ok cool. I think I might get it. "#182 I don't mean to put them in a negative light,I just don't cottan to them at all." OK that makes sense. I'm the same way about some drivers. 211. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Soon to be another win by possibly the least talented driver with more than 25 wins... 212. Baker posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race sucked, but when 1 drivers car is that much better than everyone else because his owner can do whatever he wants and get away with it that usually causes races to suck. 213. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How many dollars that, regardless of what people say, Chad Knaus or Rick Hendrick had something to do with Jeff's collapse? 214. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was worse than Kentucky. 215. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank God Gordon cracked the Top 5!! 216. joey2448 posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson is a great NASCAR driver, no doubt about that, but I hate to see him get his fourth Brickyard win. He just doesn't seem worthy of being mentioned among the greats at Indy, because when he doesn't win there, he sucks. Feast or famine. Oh well. 217. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And thus a historic track like Indy gets to be disgraced by having that name added to its list of "winningest drivers in a given series." Remember the TV being vomited on and smashed yesterday. My laptop's about to go. 218. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fantastic Nap. 219. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AJ Foyt Al Unser Rick Mears Jeff Gordon Jimmie Johnson 220. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with DJ, Jimmie doesn't get the credit he deserves as a driver. Yes his team is outstanding, but I think they are luckier to have him than he is to have them. Congrats to him for tying Gordon for the most Brickyard 400 wins. That is fitting. 221. Spen posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My top twelve favorites: 1. Bill Elliott 2. Bobby Allison 3. Terry Labonte 4. James Hylton 5. Kenny Schrader 6. Herb Thomas 7. Fred Lorenzen 8. Ned Jarrett 9. Al Unser 10. Mark Martin 11. Morgan Shepherd 12. Don White Least favorites: 1. Kyle Busch 2. Michael Waltrip 3. Kurt Busch 4. Kevin Conway 5. Milka Duno 6. Kevin Harvick 7. Casey Mears 8. Steve Wallace 9. Rick Wilson 10. Scott Speed 11. Ryan Newman 12. J.J. Yeley I actually had a hard time thinking of twelve drivers I honestly dislike. The top twelve one was hard to limit to just twelve. Several drivers (such as Hershel McGriff, Dick Trickle, Ernie Derr, Tiny Lund, Fireball Roberts, Cale Yarborough, Bobby Isaac and Fonty Flock) should be considered 'honerable mentions'. 222. Neal posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another barnburner of a Brickyard 400! Instant classic! Now, pardon me while I puke. They could sell tickets to this race for $5 and I wouldn't go. 223. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Jimmie is a 100% car driver. If the car sucks, he does. If the car is good, he is. He is only as good as his car. He can't force a good run like Jeff can; in fact, few, if any, can. 224. Schroeder51 posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Gordon had had the same results early in the year when he ran just as well but had all the bad luck, he'd either be in the top 10 (even without winning) or just outside of it. He'd be looking a lot better than he does right now... 225. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congratulations to Jimmie and the 48 team. Another non exciting Brickyard 400. Whoops, I mean Crown Royal Presents The Curtiss Shaver 400 At The Brickyard Presented By Bigmachinerecords.com And Fueled By Golden Corral And Presented By Crown Royal. 226. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great to see Superweekend and taking away the races from IRP did Sooooooooooo much to increase attendance for the 400, not. 227. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon 13 finishes of 6th or Better with 4 wins... Jimmie Johnson 4 finishes of 6th or better with 4 wins... WTHF! 228. Neal posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @TeamPlayersBlue - Just wait, NASCAR and IMS aren't done putting lipstick on this pig. For their next gimmick - running the race under the lights! NASCAR - Do the world a favor and end this miserable excuse of a race. It may be Indy but my god this is not a good race. 229. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm willing to bet they'll close off even more grandstands next year. 230. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I respectfully disagree Nico. To me, 2010 showed what he is made of. Despite being behind the 11 on speed and major pit road issues, he still pulled it out. In fact, in speaking of Gordon, that is one historical mark against him, he has never won an "outclassed" championship like JJ did in '10, like Darrell did in '85, like Dale did in '80 and '93, like Richard did in '79 etc. I know it is tough to admit while it is happening. Beleive me, I am not a fan and I am sick of watching the 48 win. But the fact is they are the best by a mile and JJ is already way up the historical list. I already had him ahead of Gordon, and this race just hammers that home even more. 231. BON GORDON posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two things that killed Gordon. Dropping from 2nd to 6th on that last pit stop and those two restarts on the outside. Jimmie wouldve had a BIG red #24 in his mirror giving him hell if not for that bad stop. Congrats to Jimmie, win #58, 4th Brickyard win. 232. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't drive that Camaro too fast, it will blow Chad's hair off! (Ah, I had to take one potshot at the 48) 233. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #230 What happened to Gordon being outclassed in 1998? and in 1997 Chevy had 11 wins total, 10 of those were Gordons. 1997-98 count right? inferior Chevy vs superior Fords. In fact Chevy had 27 wins between 1997-98 Gordon winning 23 of those. 234. Bronco posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice touch to provide purple Crown Royal pillows to kneel while kissing the bricks lol. 235. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) and how is Gordon not outclassed by a 7 time champion who had won 6 of the previous 9 champinships, including the last 2 going into 1995, especially when Gordon was a 3rd year driver with little success? 236. BON GORDON posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And ill never put jimmie ahead of Jeff untill he gets 85 wins. Johnson may be good now but like every great the end is getting more near. I think the people that dont get enough credit is Jimmies team. And Gordon doesnt get enough credit either. I dont care if Johnson won 4, ill still take Gordon's career over Johnson's. 237. JG24FanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon won 6 straight Road-Races and 4 straight Southern 500's and won the most races 5 straight years, he's still greater than Johnson by a descent measure. 238. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the least talented driver with more than 25 wins..." That would be Dale Jarrett in my book. If you count Jimmie Johnson as a car driver, you have to count Jarrett... Johnson is more versatile - better on short tracks, better on road courses (against deeper fields), better on one mile ovals (Dover/Loudon/Phoenix), etc..., etc... The only thing Jarrett has over Johnson is restrictor plate success, and that's where the driver matters LEAST. 239. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol, Sportscenter guy said crowd was "Over 400,000 strong" 240. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow did anyone notice how defeated the drivers were after the race? It looked like they were already ready to announce Jimmie Johnson as the 2012 Sprint Cup Champion. Actually I'll do it for them Jimmie Johnson 6 Time Sprint Cup Champion. 241. joey2448 posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good thing the 48 crew has those plush Crown Royal throw-pillows so they're comfortable when they kiss the bricks. What a sponsor plug, ugh... 242. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Having said that, I WAS disgusted that the only driver who seemed to have the speed to beat Johnson (Gordon) kept getting killed by being on the outside on restarts. THAT is why I loathe shootout-style primarily. You should not be passed by 2 or 3 cars who were behind you if you are starting on the inferior side. IndyCar has also experimented with shootout-style (and I don't like it there either) but when they decided to lift the shootout-style for the Indy 500, the restarts were much more spectacular (Tony Kanaan going from 7th to 1st in the first corner...) Nobody was EVER going to pass Johnson in the second half of a race unless he started 2nd on a restart (with the leader having just as fresh tires as him, unlike Brad) and somebody starting 3rd on the inside... At least the three guys between Johnson and Gordon had strong runs all day. It would have been criminal if somebody like Newman or Truex had ended up beating Gordon. 243. richiesbx137 posted: 07.29.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) race was eh....Johnson, flat out was the best car, and joins a list of four-time winners in the oval, joining AJ Foyt, Al Unser, Rick Mears and Jeff Gordon. He also joins with the four and Michael Schumacher (with five wins on the road course). Also, why put the pillows next to the bricks, Jimmie just moved it to kissed the bricks. Even I do not like it but four wins, is four wins My favorite 12: in no order(with honorable mentions) Tony Stewart Jeff Gordon Bobby Labonte Dario Franchitti John Force Denny Hamlin Richard Petty Dale Earnhardt Dale Jarrett (as a driver) Michael Schumacher Tony Kannan Dan Wheldon (RIP) Mario Andretti AJ Foyt Favorite Announcer: Bob Jenkins, Mike Joy Honorable Mention: Alan Kulwicki Bill Elliott Carl Edwards Kyle Busch (can't stand him sometimes) Jimmie Johnson (respect him as a driver) Dale Earnhardt Jr. (also respect him as a driver) Regan Smith Trevor Bayne Brad Keselowski (that taunt on Kyle Busch sold me on Bristol in 2008) Also least favorite Kurt Busch Marty Reid (not bad, but not my favorite) Bill Weber AJ Allmendinger Jeremy Mayfield JJ Yeley sorry that is all I could think of right now, need to think for more least favorite. 244. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Nico, while I too would still rank Gordon over Johnson at this point, it's more than just a killer car and a good-great crew chief... We've seen guys like Kenny Irwin, Chad Little, Mike Skinner, Joey Logano, David Ragan, Casey Mears, etc... fail with both of those... Junior in the points lead... Yet STILL he doesn't really look like THAT much of a threat. He might manage to win the title anyway if he's consistent and Johnson has 2 DNFs... 245. Baker posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF seriously? You believe Jimmie doesn't get the credit he deserves? Put this joker in an equal car with Earnhardt, Pearson, Petty, Herb Thomas, Gordon during his prime, Yarborough and other greats and Jimmie is a mid packer. His car, his owner, his crew chief, his ridiculously perfect luck all create the illusion of Jimmie being a great driver. 246. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The way I see it is this: Not everyone has the endurance to drive a NASCAR, but any hack can drive a NASCAR. These things turn more easily than f'ing F1 cars! Watch the in-cars; there is little steering involved. The car practically drives itself. Also, when Jeff was driving in 90s, almost 100% of the technology was virtually useless. Power-steering was useless; the cars were almost impossible to turn; and the penalties for driver errors were much more severe. Put anyone of the guys who started after 1996 in the 90s and they suck worse than Steve Grissom. My point is clear: Jimmie is nobody without Hendrick and Chad; he as a driver can't hack it without them. Most of Jimmie's wins have come at intermediates; intermediates depend 100% on car, 0% on driver: essentially talentless. The vigors of the tracks and cars of the 90s would have every one of these guys in a sink-or-swim with them drowning. I say this with such confidence because when it comes down to pure skill, who gets more than their car is worth: Jeff and Mark. 2010 showed nothing: it just proved what I have thought, that Denny Hamlin and Kevin Harvick are amongst the biggest hacks out there. The Chase demotes everything: to win 5 titles, Jimmie only had to be great for 50 races. To win 2 titles before then, a driver had to be great for 70. Yes, post-Chase champions are greater champions because they had to be the best for a calendar year, not just 2.5 months. Also, consider that Jimmie only really gained about 50 points on Jeff in 2007 and Kevin Harvick in 2010 when those drivers would have had several hundred point leads and clinched the title with 2 races left. You can do nothing to convince me that a driver post 1996 has half the talent of the guys before then. 247. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How bad has Earnhardt-Ganassi gotten in the last couple of years? At the ned of the race today, both of their drivers had a hard time beating David Stremme and the #30 car. Stremme ran with Montoya for most of that final run and was ahead of Jamie McMurray for a large chunk of that final run. And how about Stremme, an S&P'er for most of the year, actually finishing on the lead lap, and competitve with the Ganassi and Petty teams. And I wonder if Trevor Bayne wasn't auditioning for the ride in the #22 car next year in those final laps, as he was racing it at the end, falling short, though he finished ahead of both of Richard Petty's cars, passing the #43 of Aric Almirola at the end. And Bayne may have made the pass of the race when he passed Montoya in the short chute in the middle stages, though that wasn't a big accomplishment, considering it was a Ganassi car, still it was noteworthy move since it was Montoya he passed. AND TeamsPlayerBlue, the SC guy said "over a hundred thousand strong", but it sounded like "over 400,000 strong". 248. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And while there azre those talking about top racers and broadcasters, there are only about four who I think were great at both, and that would be the following, in no particular order: 1. Ned Jarrett 2. Jackie Stewart 3. Bobby Unser (I'm surprised nobody else mentioned him on either count) 4. Benny Parsons 249. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most of Jimmie's wins have come at intermediates [buzzer] Intermediate (1.5-2 miles): Atlanta-3, Charlotte-6, Fontana-5, Kansas-2, Las Vegas-4, Texas-1 Total - 21 Other tracks where car is more important (I'll throw Pocono and Indy in here just for the sake of your argument even though I think the driver matters at both of those places): Daytona-1, Indianapolis-4, Pocono-2, Talladega-2 Total - 9 Tracks where the driver is more important: Bristol-1, Darlington-3, Dover-7, Loudon-3, Martinsville-6, Phoenix-4, Richmond-3, Sears Point-1 Total - 28 Okay, IF you count Indy and Pocono as car tracks rather than driver tracks, then Johnson has 30 wins on car tracks to 28 on driver tracks. But considering the schedule now has more car tracks on it than driver tracks, I think this more or less indicates Johnson is more or less equally strong everywhere more than a lot of others... Nico, use your argument about Bobby Labonte (who won way too many races at Atlanta, Charlotte, and Michigan, and way too few elsewhere, in a much more sterile and less competitive era) and you might have more than a point... Even NOT counting Pocono and Indy (which I WOULD put on the driver side myself) he has more wins on driver's tracks than most people have wins... Really, everybody who started since 1996 is worse than Steve Grissom? I think Grissom was underrated, but come on... 250. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, I forgot DJ... Agreed, but all the guys you named besides them were also given little or no care from the owner. Chad Little even had to drive a Pontiac. Joey Logano is the low man on the totem pole. Mike Skinner never really was much of a Cup driver; trucks are a different skill set. Kenny Irwin: see Mike Skinner. David Ragan: Roush just used him to fill in voids; didn't give him any support. Casey Mears: Cjs and the Curse of Tim Richmond. Now maybe, maybe if those guys had 8, maybe 9 figures ($$ I mean) invested in them... 251. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "in a much more sterile and less competitive era" When I say this, I'm mainly talking about '96-'99 when Gordon, Martin, Jarrett, and Burton were pretty much hogging all the wins to themselves. If you want to mention his 2000 championship season starting with 10 straight different winners, be my guest, but BL started REALLY tanking in 2001-2002 when the fields were INSANELY deeper than they were in the second half of the '90s... 252. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richmond drives more live an intermediate than a short track. Dover is like Homestead, only longer and more boring. Even Regan Smith won at Darlington. But I will give him the credit on Bristol, Loudon, and Martinsville. To note Martinsville: remember how many races were blatantly fixed there post-plane crash. Fall 04, both 05s... It was actually a Martinsville in-car that made me conclude NASCARs turn more easily than F1 cars. Look at them from the last few years; they turn the wheel less than 30 degrees there. And you hit the nail on B. Labonte: 100% car, 1 driver track win. 253. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, when Johnson was initially hired in 2000, I didn't think he was especially deserving. I think when he arrived at Hendrick, he started developing his ability like crazy and improved from not really deserving his ride to really being a top talent. You're right that a lot of other people probably could have done some of that... If somebody else who seemed to have more potential at the time like Johnny Sauter or Scott Wimmer had gotten the #48, maybe he would have developed to the point where he would become a prolific winner too, although I doubt quite THAT prolific... Chad Little-Jeff Hammond Joey Logano-Greg Zipadelli Mike Skinner-Larry McReynolds Kenny Irwin-Doug Richert Casey Mears-Darian Grubb I don't think any of those crew chiefs are FAR off of Knaus in my opinion, yet their drivers did next to nothing... I'll grant that Little didn't have much team support, and maybe Mears as well, but the others very much did... Logano was supposed to be the hottest kid in a decade. Irwin was supposed to be Ford's response to Jeff Gordon. I think RCR supported Skinner THEN (not now, for sure...) That's why I listed those drivers specifically... 254. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And to be fair, I will up the base talent line to John Andretti. 255. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR Estimated attendance: 125,000 okay... 256. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I never thought much of Doug Richert. Remember, though, Jimmie immediately had all the $$ in his car from the get-go. The reason why I used 1996 as the base line is that before then the cars were so hard to drive, it took years to do well in them. It took greats like Jeff, David Pearson, Bobby Allison, and Fred Lorenzen a year or more just to learn how to drive a Cup car. Now it is so easy anybody can hop in a car and run up front. 1996 is when the rookie curve started to drop off, IMO. It is so easy you don't have to learn anything. 257. Mr X posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I generally like all the commentators that have been mentioned, really I only put it out there to see if anyone would mention Murray Walker and/or especially James Hunt who were a team commentating F1 during the 80's and early 90's until James passed away in 1993. 258. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Regan Smith ruined Darlington for you, did Elliott Sadler ruin Bristol? Did Joe Nemechek ruin Loudon? Did Ricky Craven or Bobby Hamilton ruin Martinsville? There are flukes everywhere. Earl Ross won at Martinsville once and Bobby Allison never did. Maybe I'll go along with you on Richmond (it is the easiest of the three short tracks to drive), but I think Bristol is the obvious comparison to Dover (I can't see the Homestead comparison at all). And while I think NASCAR has fixed some races (2001 Pepsi 400, cough cough) I don't think those Martinsville races were fixed... 259. richiesbx137 posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i am thinking more 140,000 to 150,000 no more than that. but no comment until figures come out. 260. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is fun, Sean... Yes, Smith ruined Darlington because it has proven to be a fluke: other Darlington one-hit wonders were competitive elsewhere, just no win. Ricky Craven did ruin Martinsville for me, but Bobby H. didn't because I saw him as a specialist there. 261. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 140 to 150? The crowd in the infield was smaller than for the Indy lights and Carb Day this year. Turn 1 to 2 were 80% empty, the front stretch to E-Stand 40-60% empty, turns 3 and 4 were 20-60% empty, half of tower terrace was empty and the Pit Road Terrace was removed for this year. In addition, many grandstands including the entire turn 4 grandstand, were empty 262. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think those Martinsville races were fixed from fall 2004 through 2005 because in the fall 04, Jimmie has a non top-5 car, and suddenly (after NASCAR knows about the plane crash) he passes every car in the race in like 10 laps. In 2005, the Hendrick didn't deserve top-5s; they were slow, and suddenly they are there right at the end. Even as a Jeff fan I doubt those 2 wins. 263. richiesbx137 posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ok now i see its 125,000 on the page but is it official? 264. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It took greats like Jeff, David Pearson, Bobby Allison, and Fred Lorenzen a year or more just to learn how to drive a Cup car." Bear in mind that rookies generally did NOT get chances in premier equipment until Jeff Gordon in '93 (Davey Allison in '87 more or less counts, and I'd say Earnhardt in '79 also more or less counts, but Ranier, Osterlund, and Hendrick when Gordon arrived were all second-tier). I think a bunch more of the legends would have won more often earlier in their careers (even as rookies) if they had had the best equipment on track from day one. That's a reason for believing Johnson and modern drivers are overrated, but not a reason to say he sucks... Maybe if he starts in the '70s, he takes 5 or 6 years to get a good ride and ends up winning 20 or 30 races... I do think John Andretti was MASSIVELY underrated at everything, but really, better than Tony Stewart (because he started post-'96)? I might say he was more VERSATILE than Stewart, but not better... At least we agree that the cookie-cutter monsters of the late '90s (even if they emerged before 1996) like Bobby Labonte and Dale Jarrett are worse... 265. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Indy Star estimate: 100,000 Much more accurate and they estimate all races at IMS not just Brickyard 400. 266. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Remember even Dale Earnhardt, before he died, called the generation of drivers coming into the sport in the late 90s and early 00s losers because by then they had perfected power steering. 30 years ago, power steering was a pipe-dream; now it's a DNF cause. Other cookie-cutter monsters: Kenseth and Biffle 267. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nico, I DO agree with you that Gordon is better than Johnson, mainly because he elevated the team to enable Johnson's future success (same reason I'll always rate Mark Martin over Matt Kenseth, whom he paved the way for, even though Kenseth won a title and Martin didn't), and also because he's been more versatile (road courses), and succeeded over a longer period and a greater variety of historical situations, and succeeded with multiple crew chiefs, and won titles using a superior points system... The main argument for Johnson is that he has competed against many other drivers in their prime, while all of Gordon's rivals were from the previous generation slowly becoming irrelevant in the late '90s. I don't think that's enough to rank Johnson over Gordon at this point though... If he passes Gordon's win total or gets seven chase titles, I'll probably have to do it at that point. 268. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another thought: much longer schedule now. Do you really think guys like Hamlin, Harvick, Biffle, and Edwards have much talent? 269. Raycer posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Other cookie-cutter monsters: Kenseth and Biffle " Matt has won at Phoenix, Loudon, Richmond, Bristol, Dover and Rockingham he can win at any track except road courses. 270. richiesbx137 posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) now its been five years in a row, that attendance went down they got to change the prices or re-pave the track to benefit both series, do I see it going to put permanent lights. I think it will but will benefit IndyCars, the 500 and this race and the MotoGP are possibly expected down in attendance. They got to do something or they will be something massive split in racing. That is my opinion. IndyCars and NASCAR most likely are not going nowhere but needs to think a solution as well. We will see what happens. 271. richiesbx137 posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry I putted this twice.... Made a mistake in the original. now its been five years in a row, that attendance went down they got to change the prices or re-pave the track to benefit both series, do I see it going to put permanent lights. I think it will but will benefit IndyCars and the 500. The 500, this race and the MotoGP are possibly expected down in attendance. They got to do something or they will be something massive split in racing. That is my opinion. IndyCars and NASCAR most likely are not going nowhere but needs to think a solution as well. We will see what happens. That is my take out of this. 272. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin is UNDERRATED. I don't like him but he tends to dominate on the short tracks and his weaknesses honestly have been cookie-cutters (until he got Darian Grubb) and plate tracks (he's great at bump-drafting but doesn't get good finishes). He also dominates races way more than people realize. Harvick is indeed overrated. The one thing he's got going for him is that he can win pretty much anywhere and nobody is surprised, but even as streaky as RCR has been lately, he shouldn't be having such extreme swings between his on and off seasons... Biffle I think is underrated. I think he really hasn't gotten the Roush support that Edwards and Kenseth have (although that may be changing now with Kenseth being shitcanned and Biffle in the chase again with Edwards sucking). Kenseth's had Robbie Reiser, Todd Parrott, AND Jimmy Fennig. Carl Edwards has had Bob Osborne. Biffle's best crew chief is Doug Richert (whom you've just said sucks, though I disagree), and he had him for a shorter period... Yeah, he's dominated the most on cookie-cutters which is the main strike against him, but I think the main problem with him is that he overdrives too much (not showing the finesse of a Martin, Gordon, or Johnson) and ends up having poorer runs on the driver's tracks than he generally should have... He's like a modern Geoff Bodine or Ernie Irvan in that he's trying to win with 10th place cars and screws up his runs... And yeah, I think they have been 10th place cars. Look at the way this year's Daytona 500 went down and you'll see why I think Biffle has gotten the short end of the deal very, very often from Roush. He's the kind of driver who will get overshadowed by a flashy semi-hack like Kevin Harvick because Harvick got "marquee race wins"... Carl Edwards - basically today's Dale Jarrett, and probably the MOST overrated driver right now. 273. Sean posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I actually see Biffle as RETRO. He just shuts up and drives, and he and Kyle Busch really seem to be the only two drivers right now who don't points race at ALL. Granted, him not going for the win at Daytona this year was PATHETIC, but apart from that, he always goes for the win when he has a chance for it... 274. 10andJoe posted: 07.29.2012 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) -Jamie McMurray's 350th Cup start. 275. nwt0 posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Josh Wise actually drove a Ford and Stephen Leicht was sponsored by Intertape Polymer Group. 276. Bronco posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Matt has won at Phoenix, Loudon, Richmond, Bristol, Dover and Rockingham he can win at any track except road courses." He has never won at Loudon, in fact he is pretty mediocre there. Dale Jr takes over the points lead for the first time since New Hampshire in September 2004 (technically Talladega October 2004 minus the "Shit" penalty). This was also his first top 5 at Indy coming in his 13th start at the track, giving him a top 5 at every track except Homestead and Sonoma. This was also his 21st consecutive lead lap finish, tying Jeff Gordon's record during that amazing run between Richmond 1998 and Rockingham 1999 when he won almost every week. I won't get too excited about Dale Jr taking the points lead since it's going to be erased 6 races from now, and unless he wins Pocono and finished the sweep at Michigan he's going to start the chase about 5th. Not bad for a driver who two years ago looked completely washed up and hopeless and was finishing behind AJ Allmendinger in points. Once again this proves just how inept Lance McGrew was during those two years of hell ('09-'10). Once Hamlin slipped during that restart, I knew the race was JJ's to lose. Heartbreak for Carl to have a problem that early on in a race that he needed to win. His chase hopes just look worse and worse, and this is a guy who should have won the championship last year. The gap between 10th and 11th in points is astonishing. Either win and get in as a wild card, or sit out. No one is going to be able to climb in to the top 10 now. It's equally astonishing how bad JPM has been at Indy the past two years after dominating in both '09 and '10. EGR is definitely losing some sponsors this year. I don't think Jeff Burton will be keeping his ride much longer sadly. 277. 10andJoe posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #10 sponsor: TMOne #19 sponsor: Humphrey-Smith Racing #24 sponsor: Drive to End Hunger/Chase AARP Visa #26 make: Ford #33 sponsor: Intertape Polymer Group/Little Joe's Autos 278. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also disagree with Kenseth being a "cookie cutter monster". He has wins at Phoenix, Rockingham, Dover, and Bristol, just as Raycer was saying. Biffle definitely does have way too many wins on cookie cutters to be considered a top 5 or 6 driver in my eyes, but he does have other wins on tougher tracks like Loudon and Dover. Hamlin is one of the most versatile guys on the circuit. I do agree that Harvick is a bit overrated. But he does have wins on every type of track, so I don't think that should be ignored. To me, Harv is the modern day Ricky Rudd. Now, sure, Kevin is streaky as hell and Ricky once had an annual win record that went about 15 years. But when it comes to driving talent and versatility, I think they really are similar. The Carl Edwards/Dale Jarrett comparison is pretty accurate in my eyes. Just in case you are wondering, here is my current top ten drivers in the Cup series list based on talent, in order: 1. Jimmie Johnson 2. Kyle Busch 3. Tony Stewart 4. Jeff Gordon 5. Matt Kenseth 6. Denny Hamlin 7. Brad Keselowski 8. Kevin Harvick 9. Clint Bowyer 10. Carl Edwards (I was debating whether or not to give it to Biffle, but I think I'll go with Carl, mainly because he seemingly has slightly more finesse and control than Biffle. Even though that isn't really saying much.) 279. DaleJrFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Feel free to bash me for saying this but it is interesting that Rick Hendrick is on top Jimmie's pit box when he wins and when Dale Jr wins he is no where to be found at the track. I'm glad Dale Jr finally won again this year and is leading the points for the first time in almost 8 years but i'm just pointing this out about Rick. I said a while back that Hendrick doesn't want Dale Jr to win, I still think to a smaller extent that I did before Michigan that he doesn't want him to win but this is now mainly a championship. Rick might possibly start letting Jr get cars to win more races and this would be good but it would be nice if Dale Jr was given cars as good as Jimmie gets every week so he could win a championship. 280. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think Jeff Burton will be keeping his ride much longer sadly." It kills me. JB has been my favorite since I was about 4 years old. I started watching around the end of 1997 and beginning of 1998. I remember seeing him edge out Gordon at the '98 Fall Richmond race in a great finish. My favorite win ever by him though has to be his comeback win against Kenseth at Dover in 2006. That must have been what the Jr fans felt at Michigan when Jr broke his streak. I would just love to see Jeff have one more year like he did in '06 or '08. But unfortunately, I doubt it will happen. I'm expecting Austin to take over that car after next year. Or if the rest of this year is a complete disaster, I've heard that RCR is talking to Kurt Busch about a ride over there. So I assume if that did happen it would be the 31 because there is no way in hell Kurt is bringing a full 36 race sponsorship over for a 4th team. So as a Burton fan, this all really kills me on the inside. 281. ch posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor corrections: 10 - TMOne 24 - Chase AARP Visa / Drive To End Hunger 33 - Intertape Polymer Group 34 - Al's Liners / Scorpion Coatings 78 - Aurora Colorado Victims Tribute 83 - Burger King / Dr. Pepper 93 - Burger King / Dr. Pepper 95 - Jordan Truck Sales Make correction: 26 - Ford 282. ch posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @280, Richard Childress said that Austin would stay in the NNS next year full time. Also, there are rumors of Monster wanting to move up for a full cup season with Kurt. 283. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I know he's running full time in NNS next year. That's why I said I expect him to take over the 31 AFTER next year. 284. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt had a great top 10 run going before loose lugnuts under a green flag pitstop trapped him a lap down. The engine eventually expired to cap off a disappointing weekend for Phoenix Racing. Who had nothing to show for but a 34th and 36th place finish with two strong cars. 285. Dave#38Fan posted: 07.29.2012 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ post#284 phoenix racing didn't have a car that finished 34th, that was casey mears, who drivers for germain racing. 286. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2012 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergfan (#262), the Hendrick cars didn't deserve top fives at Martinsville in 2005? For your information, Jeff Gordon swept the two races there that year (with two different crew chiefs), coming from three laps down in one of them (and he had to make two of them up on the track), and he and Jimmie Johnson both finished in the top three in the second one. And I think that Joey Logano can kiss his Chase hopes goodbye with the mistake he made in trying to pass Trevor Bayne, spinning himself out, and taking out ex-champions Matt Kenseth and Bobby Labonte in the process. That is, unless he completes a sweep at Pocono, and even then, he probably won't make it. With the top ten in the points all but locked in for the Chase, the battle for the Wild Card slots are bascially down to four drivers battling for two spots. It's down to Kasey Kahne, who's the favorite to get one of them, Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, and Ryan Newman. If Logano doesn't get a second win, I think Busch, Edwards, or Newman could actually get in with one win with their high points position. Of course, Edwards actually has to get a win before he can get in the Chase, but I think he can with Michigan and Bristol coming up. Gordon and Menard are both out of the hunt, since neither will win, and Logano and Marcos Ambrose are both out of it because they're too low in points, even if Ambrose wins at Watkins Glen, he's too low in points, and Gordon and Menard are too low in points for any tie-breaking scenarios to work in their favor. It's between four drivers, and two are going to be unhappy. 287. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster: I posted the F1 points hours ago. Where is it? 288. Draco (Candraco) posted: 07.29.2012 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did I win NRF? 289. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes 290. LordLowe posted: 07.29.2012 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson is the Caffeine Free version of Dale Sr. 291. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will post about this in more extensive detail in a little bit, but lets not forget something: JJ has spent the last 10 years basically wiping the floor with Gordon IN THE EXACT SAME EQUIPMENT. He forced Gordon out of his own shop, and Gordon was happy to be out of the 48's shadow, the team he helped build. And also, 5 is a bigger number than 4. 292. Eric posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really think Dale Jarrett was a bit underrated as a cup driver and shouldn't be compare to Edwards. Dale Jarrett had Horsepower at Yates, but the amount of time he won at Darlington and Rockingham says there is some true driver talent there. The other reason is Dale Jarrett was the better Plate Driver compare to Carl Edwards. When Dale won his races at Darlington, Darlington's track surface ate tires like it was no tomorrow. That meant you needed to take care of your tires like you had to go at Rockingham. Rockingham and Darlington in Dale Jarrett's time was among the toughest tracks on the circuit as a driver. Dale Jarrett won at Darlington 3 times, 2 times at Rockingham, 4 short track wins,1 time a phoenix, 1 time at loudon,1 time at Dover and 3 times at Pocono. Dale winning at Indy 2 times wasn't a shock. Carl and Dale pretty much even out at Dover, and Pocono. Carl has 1 more win at Bristol than Dale Jarrett, but Dale won at Richmond 2 times, Martinsville once and loudon once. Carl never won at Richmond, Martinsville Loudon, and Darlington. Dale Jarrett's win at Phoenix should be looked differently than Carl Edwards win due to the fact Phoenix did not have 2 cup dates before 2005. That also made Jeff Burton and Dale's 2 straight Phoenix wins a big accomplishment in that era Most of the Phoenix winners from 1988 to 2004 might have had more Phoenix wins from that time period if Phoenix had 2 cup dates each season. That means no one knows for sure if Dale Jarrett could have won multiple times at Phoenix. I know the competition Jarrett faced in the late 1990's was weaker than Carl's, but Dale did show more ability at driver tracks. Dale Jarrett had a unique prime if you look at the fact Terry Lobonte, Rusty Wallace were not at their peak in that late 1990's despite being born in the same year. Ricky Rudd is a case that I think he was in his prime as a driver still in the late 1990's, but being an owner driver was why his stats were not that great in the late 1990's with him being born in the same year as Rudd. Rudd in 2000 and 2001 actually had 2 of his best cup seasons in a long time based in Top 5's and Top 10's. 293. ch posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @285 he ment in the Nationwide series and the cup series. 294. 12345Dude posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Carl Edwards/Dale Jarrett comparison is pretty accurate in my eyes. Just in case you are wondering, here is my current top ten drivers in the Cup series list based on talent, in order: 1. Jimmie Johnson 2. Kyle Busch 3. Tony Stewart 4. Jeff Gordon 5. Matt Kenseth 6. Denny Hamlin 7. Brad Keselowski 8. Kevin Harvick 9. Clint Bowyer 10. Carl Edwards (I was debating whether or not to give it to Biffle, but I think I'll go with Carl, mainly because he seemingly has slightly more finesse and control than Biffle. Even though that isn't really saying much.)" I don't see the Dale Jarrett Carl Edwards comparison. Carl Edwards is a superstar the guy that could lead Roush. Jarrett got one top 10 points finish in his first 10 years. That included 9 seasons out of the top 10 and 4 season out of the top 23. And 4 wins. I only started watching in 2002 so I don't know much about his prime. Carl has 7 top 12 points finishes and 4 top 4 point finishes along with 2 top 2 finishes. I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but I don't understand the comparison. 295. Eric posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I actually thought Bobby Labonte and Dale Jarrett were the biggest benefactors of what happened in 1993 and 1994 for cup racing. 1993 was the year Alan Kulwicki and Davey Allison died for airplane and helicopter crashes. Ernie had nasty crash at Michigan in 1994. Bobby was the weaker of the two drivers. Davey Allison's death led Ernie Irvan to Yates. When Ernie had his career altering crash at Michigan, Dale Jarrett ended up at Yates, and Bobby Labonte took over Dale Jarrett's spot. Ernie came back and won 3 races at Yates, but was not the same driver. What I gathered Ernie wanted to get out of Morgan-Mcclure because he felt they were not good enough to win a cup championship. That meant Ernie might have looked at getting into the 5 car for 1994 since Rudd was leaving in 1993. I honestly think Dale Jarrett would have stayed with Gibbs if the 28 car wasn't open. The competitiveness of Bill Elliott in the late 1990's had to blamed on being a driver/owner like Ricky Rudd. Bill had 2 top 10 points finishes as a driver/owner, but he could have won races if he wasn't a driver owner. Bill's 1996 injury at Talladega didn't help bill either. I argue Bill make a mistake in by being a driver/owner instead of being the driver of the 28 car. Bill was correct for leaving Junior Johnson after the 1994 season, but being a driver owner was the wrong call. As great as Dale Jarrett was at Yates, Bill could have had the same stats as Dale Jarrett did at Yates despite being the weaker short track driver. Matt Kenseth shouldn't have been called a Cookie Cutter Monster. Matt won at driver tracks like already mentioned correctly. Matt won at Rockingham 2 times only in 10 starts. That meant if Rockingham didn't go away, Matt would have won there additional times. Matt's driving style fit Rockingham perfectly despite not being a great qualifier. Matt takes care of his equipment and that means a track like Rockingham is a great fit. Matt also won at Bristol and Dover 2 times in his career. 296. Eric posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The tracks I mentioned above are drivers tracks that Matt won more than 1 time and cjs3872 shouldn't correct me as a result. 297. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, your comment about how Jimmie has done in the last decade in the same equipment compared to Gordon has more to do with Chad Knaus more than it does Gordon and Johnson. Remember that after the 2004 Brickyard 400, Gordon had five wins that season to Johnson's four. But after that, I believe, and Knaus even joked about this on an interview, that the information sharing between those two teams (and for that matter, the rest of HMS) stopped, and Johnson won four times the rest of the season, while Gordon never won again. I also believe the HMS airplane crash has something to do with this, because at that moment Knaus efectively took control of the competition side of the organization. Knaus has also been largely responsible for Gordon losing two crew chiefs (the very underrated Robbie Lommis and Steve Letarte, now crew chief for the current championship leader), and his crash in 2005-'06. So Knaus starts sharing informatin with the #24 team in 2007, and what happens? Gordon has the best season he's had in neary a decade, only to get deep-sixed again by Knaus in the Chase again. Gordon gets a big points lead on Johnson halfway through the Chase, and again the information sharing stops, resulting in Gordon not being able to respong to Johnson's tear, and is actually uncompetitive until the finale. Gordon also goes winless in 2008 and was not competitve enough to beat Johnson until last year, when he leaves the shop he helped build. Chad Knaus, more than any other single person, is responsible for Gordon's malaise in the last eight years. And now Gordon's stuck with a crew chief (Alan Gustafson) that, although he builds good, fast cars, can't call a race if his life depended on it. Gordon won three times last year, but every one of those victories came on a track where tires were important, and where strategy never came into play. He won at Phoenix in the last race before it was repaved and reconfigured, at Pocono in a race where, due to the way it played out, there wasn't much strategy, and at Atlanta, where driving ability and tire conservation are at their highest. And Gordon's ultra-conservative nature on restarts the last 5-8 years doesn't help him either, though on almost every restart today, he was stuck on the outside lane, from where there was no recovery for anyone. 298. loomer posted: 07.29.2012 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kyle Busch is going to go on a run here to clinch a wild card spot. He's improved a ton at Pocono, he's outstanding at Watkins Glen, then Bristol..., he's feast or famine at Atlanta, and then there's Richmond where he's one of the best ever at that track. I think he gets two more wins by the time the chase starts. 299. 10andJoe posted: 07.29.2012 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #19 sponsor should read Humphrey-Smith Racing (typo; currently doesn't have the "i" in Smith) 300. Eric posted: 07.29.2012 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) loomer, There is a slight reconfiguration for Bristol. That means it the track is a wild card. Kyle never got a cup win at Richmond in September. but is great at Richmond said. The only 2 races Kyle did not finish in the top 10 at Richmond happened in the September race though. 301. murb posted: 07.29.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The way I see the Edwards-Jarrett comparison is if we are talking about 1996-2001 DJ. But other than that, yes, they've had completely different situations in their careers. Carl has been the main man over at Roush for his whole career, while DJ struggled early but finally became a superstar driver in the latter half of his career. As far as raw ability goes, it's close but I think I would give a slight advantage to Carl. 302. Rusty posted: 07.29.2012 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "285. Dave#38Fan posted: 07.29.12 - 7:26 pm @ post#284 phoenix racing didn't have a car that finished 34th, that was casey mears, who drivers for germain racing. " Phoenix Racing and Kurt Busch finished 34th in the Nationwide race after electrical problems. 303. TheTruthâ?¢ posted: 07.29.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He never does all that great the day after NWide wins" well, I wouldn't exactly agree... today: 9th loudon: 5th charlotte: 5th homestead '11: 20th (bad call) kansas '11: 3rd chicago '11: 5th indy '11: 9th kentucky: 7th after leading 79 laps imo, dont overthink it too much 304. DamonHillFan posted: 07.29.2012 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, this is a statistical website. Conspiracy theories and a complete lack of knowledge of what it takes to drive these cars has no real place here. To go off about Jimmie Johnson's success being based entirely on the car is RIDICULOUS, especially considering you clearly don't feel that way about Jeff Gordon's successes. Chad Knaus was with Stacy Compton before working with Jimmie, and they ran embarrassingly poor. Jeff Gordon has worked with some really amazing crew chiefs, and clearly Chad Knaus is great, but it'd be hard to argue that anyone else would've matched the numbers that Jimmie has as they are absolutely staggering. And if you're going to throw the fact out there about Jimmie winning most of his races on intermediates, you might want to realize that the Cup series also RUNS MOST OF THEIR RACES on intermediates. Any driver who wins a LOT is gonna win a LOT on intermediates. If you look at racing-reference's track categories, Jimmie has run 185 races on 1-2 mile tracks, 114 races in 2+ mile tracks, but only 63 short track races and 21 road course races. His winning percentage on tracks 1+ mile? 15.7 percent. His winning percentage on short tracks? 15.87%. Also, his 3 wins at Loudon & 4 wins at Phoenix were thrown into that 1+ mile category, which most people look at as short tracks. Plus when you have 3 wins and 7 top 5s at Darlington in 14 starts, some people might look at that as being good. It's all about percentages, because if I win at every type of track equally, most of my wins will still be at intermediates. It's a fact. If you weren't enjoying Jimmie drive his 48 today more yawed out than anyone else in the field today, you were missing out. He is the best Cup driver of this current era and he does NOT get the credit as a driver that he deserves. If you disagree, I simply think you're in denial, and any given RACER would agree. Too many fans just can't handle it, just like they couldn't handle Jeff Gordon in the 90s. Jimmie Johnson MADE Chad Knaus a household name. Chad Knaus wasn't a household name when Stacy Compton was running 30th for him. Hendrick is a great organization, but there are 4 cars in that organization and none of em hold a candle to how the 48 team capitilizes on those resources. If you think Rick is simply biased in 48's favor, your lack of logic is your own downfall. I'm sorry to be so harsh and bordeline insulting, as we'd probably get along fine, but people who want to delegitimize success with absolutely NO FACTUAL BACKING deserve to get called out on it. 305. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, the fact is Jeff co-owns that 48 team, and they ran out of his shop. If he just sat back allowed Chad to do that then he deserves to suffer from it. To me, there are no more comparable drivers from a historical standpoint than Gordon and JJ. Their intros to Cup were basically identical and have driven the exact same equipment. Obviously Gordon has JJ beat in some areas. He has better versatility (he mastered road courses quickly while JJ still hasn't) and his period of sheer dominanace ('95-'99, 47 wins) was more overwhelming than JJ's. But as far as overall career performance, even at this point looking at their careers with Jeff's 19 years and JJ's 10, Jimmie has already clearly passed him. He has already passed him in the most important category: championships. And I know they were all cha$e titles, and I hate the cha$e, but I think we have already been over this. The 48 team has adapted to everything thrown their way, so if they had to race under the full season format they would be better than anyone else at that too. And when it comes to closing ability for seasons, another very important factor IMO, it isn't even close. And JJ's dominance, while he has had no streak of 47 wins in 5 years, has lasted longer than Jeff's. Jeff had 7 or more win seasons 5 years apart ('95 and '99). JJ had them 6 years apart ('04 and '09). Also JJ had a streak of 7 straight years of 4 or more wins ('04-'10) while Jeff's best has been 5. And the thing to remember, when JJ showed up in Cup, Jeff was 30. He is about to turn 41 now. That is a driver's traditional prime. Yet JJ has blown him away in the exact same equipment. And if JJ did get better equipment then Jeff has nobody to blame except himself. 306. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2012 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DamonHillFan, you have to remember that when Knaus was Stacy Compton's crew chief in 2001, that was with Melling Racing, which was rarely competitive after Bill Elliott left, no matter who drove for them, and they even began to lose their way in Elliott's last two seasons there (1990-'91). Lake Speed was the only driver that was ever even remotely competitive for that team after Bill Elliott left after the 1991 season. But they ran better and showed more potential in 2001 than in any year I can remember in the years after Bill left, even nabbing two pole positions at Talladega, as well as a spot on the front row for the ill-fated 2001 Daytona 500 (next to, of all people, Bill Elliott). But it's true that Stacy wasn't very good behind the wheel. But Rick Hendrick liked what he saw Knaus doing with a badly out-manned and out-resourced team (which closed it's doors early in 2002), and re-hired him to be Jimmie Johnson's crew chief when the #48 team was established. 307. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2012 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Gordon has worked with some really amazing crew chiefs, and clearly Chad Knaus is great, but it'd be hard to argue that anyone else would've matched the numbers that Jimmie has as they are absolutely staggering." Exactly. Is now a bad time to mention that Jeff's crew chief from late '05 thru '10 is leading the points now with one of the biggest underachievers behind the wheel? Ray Evernham was at least Chad's equal, and a good argument could be made he was better. And Robbie Loomis is the '00s version of Kirk Shelmerdine: UNDERRATED AS HELL! "And if you're going to throw the fact out there about Jimmie winning most of his races on intermediates, you might want to realize that the Cup series also RUNS MOST OF THEIR RACES on intermediates. Any driver who wins a LOT is gonna win a LOT on intermediates." Thank you for pointing that out. This isn't '85-'96 anymore where they ran 29-30 races per year, 8 on short tracks, 2 at Darlington, 6 at 1 milers, 4 superspeedways, 4 mile and a halfs, 2 roadies, 2 two milers, and 2-3 flat two and a half milers. Now it is one cookie cutter after another. Getting 58 wins from '02 to present is gonna mean winning a pretty good chunk of intermediates. Seems like simple logic doesn't it? "If you look at racing-reference's track categories, Jimmie has run 185 races on 1-2 mile tracks, 114 races in 2+ mile tracks, but only 63 short track races and 21 road course races. His winning percentage on tracks 1+ mile? 15.7 percent. His winning percentage on short tracks? 15.87%. Also, his 3 wins at Loudon & 4 wins at Phoenix were thrown into that 1+ mile category, which most people look at as short tracks. Plus when you have 3 wins and 7 top 5s at Darlington in 14 starts, some people might look at that as being good. It's all about percentages, because if I win at every type of track equally, most of my wins will still be at intermediates. It's a fact." Don't you hate it when cold hard facts get in the way of making a false reality real? Look, I know it isn't easy to watch. It is tough to watch the same guy in the same car win and dominate over and over. I'm tired of it too. I definitely pine for the days of '99-'03 or years like '91 or '94 when parity ruled (even if most of the points battles were stinkers). But we can't discredit the guy who is clearly the best driver out there because of it. Period. 308. cjs3872 posted: 07.29.2012 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I believe that Chad Knaus has run the competition side of Hendrick Motorsports since the HMS plane crash of 2004, and I think the proof is in the putting. One problem is that Rick Hendrick has NEVER been a strong personality, and so if one of his teams has problems, it never gets fixed because he has done nothing to get it fixed until well after the damage has been done. And as a result, first with Ray Evernham and now with Chad Knaus, they've basically run over the rest of the HMS teams with their strong will. And also, Hendrick does not necessarily like drivers with strong personalities, either. Perhaps the situation with Geoff Bodine and Tim Richmond and later Darrell Waltrip kind of scared Hendrick away from drivers with strong personalities. As for your championship argument, that never has held a lot of water with me, because I consider drivers such as Bobby Allison, who won the championship only once, to be equal or greater than everyone except Richard Petty. And championships today mean even less than they ever have before, because it's a 10-race championship. That's why Jimmie Johnson's championships and those of future greats can not be compared to the accomplishments of Gordon and all those that came before him, because you actually had to perform for the entire season. Now, you don't. All you have to do is do well in the final 10 races if you make the Chase. Tony Stewart showed how badly flawed the Chase system is last year. He did nothing in the first 26 races and caught fire in the last 10 and became the champion. But, of all the drivers with the possible exception of Rusty Wallace, no driver was more affected by Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s death than Gordon, and I think you can se that by the way he drives, especially on restarts. That combined with the big crashes he's had in the last seven years, as well as the 17 year/550 start mark he has passed, has dulled his effectiveness. He's still one of the top five drivers on the circuit, but he's nowhere near what he used to be (I'd say about 50%). And you say he's 41 years old (actually he won't be 41 until this Saturday), but he's an old 41. In fact, as was once said about Gary Player prior to the '78 Masters (which he ironically won), Gordon is a fading star with about 2-3 elite years left in him, at best. There's a chance that he may not ever win again, though I doubt that, but he won't win this year, something I predicted way back in May. 309. Mr X posted: 07.30.2012 - 2:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm certainly biased as a Gordon fan, but I still think that Jeff is still a slightly better driver, but only slight, and only because I think Jeff is just a little bit more versatile, and if your opinion differs on the subject thats completely understandable but I'm still going to argue my point. There are a few things I would like to clarify though, calling a Jimmie Johnson a talentless hack is completely laughable, and over the course of Jimmie's career no other driver has worked harder on self improvement, and there is no racetrack on the planet that requires 100% car and 0% driver. Although I think IMS is certainly one of the most overrated and easist racetracks on earth to drive a car around. Just like Daytona and Talladega. Personally I think The Green Hell as Jackie Stewart dubbed it should be the most prestigious track in the world, I do hold the 24 Hours of Le Mans well above the Indy 500, but back to more secret knowledge. Jeff Gordon has had power steering his entire career!!! Power steering has been around in road vehicles since the 1920's and has been a mainstream feature since not long after WWII. To my knowledge from watching Car & Track with Bud Lindemann the first NASCAR foray with power steering was on Richard Petty's Plymouth in the 1972 Southeastern 500 at Bristol, and according to a poster on this website the first race won by a driver using power steering was the 1982 Mason-Dixon 500 at Dover won by Bobby Allison, and given how convincingly Bobby won that race I don't think it would take long before every other team would copy the DiGard Team. Jimmie has truely been staggering over the last 10 years, and yes he has mopped the floor with Jeff, but if Jimmie is a 9.5/10 driver, he has also had a 9.5/10 team behind him the entire time. Jeff to me is a 9.6/10 driver with a 7/10 team behind him since about 2005. Despite what DSFF says about Paul Wolfe, Chad Knaus is actually the best cc out there and has been for several years. I would bet money that most of the development that goes on at HMS is done exclusively by Chad Knaus and the engineers on the 48 team. This information is later passed on very carefully to the 24, 5, and 88. Steve Letarte was with Gordon and still is with Dale Jr. Chad's guinea pig. The difference is Steve no longer has a driver capable of beating Jimmie on the track, so you likely won't see the same dropoff in performance at seasons end that you saw in 2007 or 2004. Once Jeff left the 24/48 shop and parted with Steve he partnered up with Alan who is a crew chief that is several years behind the times. As CJS has told us numerous times and I agree, Alan can build a very fast car, especially on flatter tracks, but he can't call a race to save his life, and it's a shame because we all know the issues with the racing right now that are causing clean air, strategy, and track position to be the only factors in races instead of outright speed. Yes I am aware that Dale Jr is currently leading the standings, but he took the lead only today thanks to Matt being caught up in a wreck, and we all realize that the only reason Dale Jr is leading the standings is because they have had no bad luck at all. Bobby Labonte only missed 9 laps in all of his title year, 2000. Well Dale Jr has completed every lap this year. But there still no denying that the 48 is a much stronger team then the 88. 3 wins is a greater number then 1, 10>9, and 912 is more then quadruple 218, and most important of all Jeff also led the standings for a great period in 2007 with Steve but wasn't leading when it came time for Chad to win a title with Jimmie. NASCAR is a team sport and a team is what it takes to win Championships and races and the driver is definitely part of that team, and Jimmie has certainly done his job as a driver over the last 10 years, but Jeff has impressed me all during his career aswell doing his job, and given who Jeff has spent the last 5 or 6 years working with, I think he's done better then Jimmie could've, and I believe that if Jeff had Jimmie's team or even a team that was as good at being a team as Gordon is at being a driver, then I think Jeff would be knocking on the door of 100 wins right now. Jimmie has had that his entire career and while Jeff didn't have the quite the competition as Jimmie, Jeff did have more success at a greater variety of tracks, and for my money Jeff won more races on his own merits as a driver then Jimmie. Just looking at race wins and particularly championships aren't always the best method of determining the driver and only the driver's raw talent. Jeff has done more things behind the wheel that I never thought Jimmie could do, and the qualifying, not that it's particularly important, unless you qualify like Ayrton Senna. I also firmly believe that it's harder to win the title under the old format then the new one, mostly due to longevity. All of these teams are constantly developing their cars, looking for more speed. It's harder to get to the top and stay there for 30+ races on a greater variety of tracks as opposed to just 10 on a small variety of tracks. Tony last year is a fine example and there are plenty of other instances from history where one team went on a 10 race hot streak, but were overall not championship caliber. To top it all of Jeff layed the foundation for Jimmie, and also hasn't been at his very best during the last 10 years either, and eventually the next great HMS driver will be paired with the next great HMS cc and we will have the next chapter of this discussion. Jimmie's empire will fall at some point. 310. DamonHillFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 2:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I do mostly agree with you there. I think their speed at Daytona and Talladega during qualifying had a lot to do with the return of Dodge, as Dodge was FLYING and won the pole for all 4 SS races - Bill Elliott at Daytona, Sterling Marlin at Daytona in July, and Stacy Compton at both Talladega races. When Compton was outside front row for the 500, the crew chief is actually listed as someone else and not Chad Knaus, but Chad was the crew chief for both poles at Talladega. Melling certainly wasn't Hendrick by any means, but I guess my point is that if Knaus is so amazing that he's the entire reason Jimmie Johnson is awesome, then I think that 92 car would've run even better than it did :). Only 5 top 15s all year, and one of those was the lone top 10 - a 10th at Daytona with Ken Howes listed as crew chief. It's basically as a response to people who feel that way as it's a quick comeback to those who don't give Jimmie any credit. I read this site a lot and I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure you give Jimmie credit :) 311. 12345Dude posted: 07.30.2012 - 4:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) " As for your championship argument, that never has held a lot of water with me, because I consider drivers such as Bobby Allison, who won the championship only once, to be equal or greater than everyone except Richard Petty. And championships today mean even less than they ever have before, because it's a 10-race championship. That's why Jimmie Johnson's championships and those of future greats can not be compared to the accomplishments of Gordon and all those that came before him, because you actually had to perform for the entire season. Now, you don't. All you have to do is do well in the final 10 races if you make the Chase. Tony Stewart showed how badly flawed the Chase system is last year. He did nothing in the first 26 races and caught fire in the last 10 and became the champion." CJS I respect your views but what is Jimmie Johnson supposed to do? Either he wins a title that doesn't mean as much because of the chase or he doesn't win a less meaningful cup title? Either way he loses. It's not his fault the chase is stupid. He doesn't run NASCAR. I honestly think people will look back in history look at the amount of championships and put Jimmie over Jeff. (I know this doesn't work in all cases). I think this sums up the argument in my opinion. Jimmie Johnson has ran full time in the cup series 10 seasons. He has beaten Jeff Gordon in points 9 of those years. The year he didn't? Jimmie Johnson's rookie year. Jeff Gordon has never won more races than Jimmie Johnson. Never. Even when Jimmie was a rookie. It took Jeff Gordon 49 races to win his first race. It took Jimmie Johnson 32 races to lead the points. Also if anyone cares (that would be no one) I wrote a pre season novle before the season started. My computer crashed and I lost it. I found it with the AMAZING program EaseUs. I will be posting it in a few days when I get the full thing. I worked my butt on it to say the least. Just letting you guys know if your wondering why the thing has stuff like "Can't Wait For The 2012 Daytona 500". I haven't edited it since February. Also mentioning because your going to wonder why it's taking 20 minutes to scrowl down to the bottom on the page to get to the comments box. 312. 12345Dude posted: 07.30.2012 - 4:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) When I said Jeff Gordon never won more races then Jimmie I meant he never won more races in the same year then Jimmie did. 313. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 5:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF and DamonHillFan, thank you for proving my point. The reason for Jimmie's success is that the schedule is filled with cookie cutter hack tracks. Return to the schedule build of the 80s and first half-90s, and he's screwed. 314. loomer posted: 07.30.2012 - 6:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) loomer, There is a slight reconfiguration for Bristol. That means it the track is a wild card. Kyle never got a cup win at Richmond in September. but is great at Richmond said. The only 2 races Kyle did not finish in the top 10 at Richmond happened in the September race though. ------------------------ Good points Eric. Kyle has never won at Richmond in September, and I find that a bit odd. I think he'll eventually win there in the Fall though, and it could be this year. Bristol is a wild card now, true, but Kyle was pretty good at the old Bristol too once he got the hang of it. I also forgot to mention Michigan where he finished 1st/3rd last year. He got up to 4th there this year after starting 32nd, before having his 3rd straight engine failure. He also finished 2nd at Fontana earlier in the year. 315. LordLowe posted: 07.30.2012 - 6:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who is the bigger sports bust Ryan Leaf or Jeremy Mayfield. 316. LordLowe posted: 07.30.2012 - 6:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Cheating Chad was Causing the 24 team such misery why didn't Gordon just have Knaus and the 48 team removed from the shop. 317. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 7:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff doesn't have that kind of control of the shop LordLowe. Tim Couch is a bigger bust than both. 318. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.30.2012 - 9:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) IMS is now claiming the Superweekend format is a success because it 'drew more people to the track over the weekend than last year', must be smoking some good stuff. Actually, less people came to watch races at Indianapolis than last year. On Friday last year, 24,000 attended a truck race on Friday night at LOR. This year, an estimated 5,000 turned up for Rolex on Friday. On Saturday night last year, LOR had an estimated 36,000, and this year at the 257,000 seat IMS had a crowd of 40,000. In addition, the crowd on Sunday fell from 138,000 to "125,000." Overall the major event weekend attendance fell from 198,000 to 170,000. Some success, IMS and NASCAR. 319. Greg posted: 07.30.2012 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Stremme didn't S&P here! Last time this season apart from perhaps Talladega? 320. cjs3872 posted: 07.30.2012 - 12:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, I agree about Jimmie having no control pver the fact that his championships are watered down. He just drives the car to it's full potential, wins the most often these days, and it has usually resulted in championships because nobody else other than Tony Stewart and a fading Gordon even knows how to win championships. But are factually incorrect on on thing. Jeff Gordon did win more races than Jimmie last year (3-2), but the rest of your point on that particular matter stands, though I say again that Chad Knaus has run things at HMS from a competition point of view ever since the HMS plane crash. That was point at which the #48 team became the dominant team at HMS. Prior to that, Gordon and Johnson were equals at HMS, but not since then. 321. DamonHillFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF and DamonHillFan, thank you for proving my point. The reason for Jimmie's success is that the schedule is filled with cookie cutter hack tracks. Return to the schedule build of the 80s and first half-90s, and he's screwed." That was actually disproved, given Jimmie's winning percentages at tracks less than a mile and tracks labelled an intermediate at bigger. He's anything but screwed, the winning percentages between the two were close to exact, except the shorter tracks had a slightly higher winning percentage. If there were more races outside of cookie cutters, Jimmie would simply have a lot more wins in those tracks given the percentages. The facts counter your point. 322. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, but it has been shown that Jimmie wins far less at driver tracks, especially when the only driver tracks left are Dover, Martinsville, Loudon, and Phoenix. And those tracks only made up 6 races then, not 8. 323. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.30.2012 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, I believe that Chad Knaus has run the competition side of Hendrick Motorsports since the HMS plane crash of 2004, and I think the proof is in the putting." Again, if that is the case, then Jeff has nobody to blame except himself. Can you imagine if somebody tried that as a teammate to Dale Earnhardt? By sheer force of personality that would quit REAL fast. What about Bobby Allison? How many times would Chad's nose have gone to beating on Bobby's fist? If you are an extremely successful driver and you have a team screwing you like that, you can put an end to it. Quickly. You either use your clout to force changes, you threaten to leave (knowing every team in the garage area will throw everything they have out there to get you), or just leave (which I think was a major force behind Kenseth's decision to leave at the end of this year). "As for your championship argument, that never has held a lot of water with me, because I consider drivers such as Bobby Allison, who won the championship only once, to be equal or greater than everyone except Richard Petty." How many times do we have to go over this? Bobby's lack of championships are easily explainable. He never stayed with a team more than 3 years. You can't bounce around like he did and expect to win championships. JJ and Jeff on the other hand have been with the exact same organization for their entire careers. Again, their career arcs are identical. So championship counts as it relates to them against each other holds all the water in the world. And for the record I have Bobby ahead of both of them. "And championships today mean even less than they ever have before, because it's a 10-race championship. That's why Jimmie Johnson's championships and those of future greats can not be compared to the accomplishments of Gordon and all those that came before him, because you actually had to perform for the entire season." Again, how many times do we have to go over this? Everybody knows how the champion will be determined. Besides, those frst 26 races are NOT completely irrelevant. First off, you have to be solidly inside the Top 10 or 12. We have seen legends and the great drivers of this generation bit by this like Gordon in '05 (and possibly this year), Smoke in '06, KyBu in '09, etc. Not only do you have to get in, you also have to balance getting in with building speed and momentum for the final 10. The 48 team has mastered this. I feel pretty confident they would have nailed down how to win over a full schedule too. Remember, for all the cha$e has helped the 48, it actually cost them in 2004. By mid summer they had a 230+ point lead. Under the full season they would have cruised into the sunset. But they realized even if they had a 600+ point lead after Richmond it wouldn't matter so they began experimenting and blew 3 engines in a row. Would that have happened under a full season format? And again, if we are going to recognize The King's 1974 Winston Cup championship, then we have to recognize ALL championships. I know under any format he would have won it in 1974 because he was kicking ass in that Charger, but he only had to perform well in ONE race. The way it was structured, the 1-2 finishers in the Daytona 500 were basically guaranteed a 1-2 finish in the points. So Richard had to fight off only Cale Yarborough and the not quite ready to be champs yet Junior Johnson team. People talk about how Richard got lucky in that race cause Donnie Allison had it won then blew a tire, but although that gave the Daytona 500 to Richard, it was a bad break for his title hopes. Had Donnie won, it would have been Richard vs the inconsistent Donnie for the rest of the year instead of the almost there power duo of Cale and Junior. So unless you are willing to call Richard a 6 time champ (not to mention some of the whacky systems he won his first 4 titles under), you have to count JJ's 5 titles in a row just like Jeff's 4 titles. "But, of all the drivers with the possible exception of Rusty Wallace, no driver was more affected by Dale Earnhardt, Sr.'s death than Gordon" Well, as much as I hate to say this cause I know it is callous as hell, but that means Jeff is soft. As a race car driver, you have to be able to put tragedies like that aside. Remember, Earnhardt won two races at Atlanta (the season finales in '84 and '89) that had driver fatalities in them. He also saw his best friend and racing contemporary Neil Bonnet almost die at Darlington 1990 (a race Dale won) then die in practice for the 1994 Daytona 500 with Dale winning his qualifying race a few days later. Also, JJ has dealt with his share of tragedy. He was in the Busch race at New Hampshire in 2000 when his contemporary Adam Petty died in a practice session. He also saw his good friend Blaise Alexander die in an ARCA crash at Charlotte, the same track JJ would dominate shortly thereafter. To this day, ever since Blaise's death, he has had his team put a small decal on the front of his cars for Blaise so he can always cross the finish line before JJ. In other words, he has given Blaise one hell of a ride! Again, I apologize for coming off as insensitive, but as a race car driver, you have to be able to put stuff like that aside. Besides, the year Dale died, Jeff won the championship going away, won the most races, won the most poles, and led the most laps. "Despite what DSFF says about Paul Wolfe, Chad Knaus is actually the best cc out there and has been for several years." I say Paul is because he never seems to make a bad decision on pit strategy with the exception of the 3 races at the end of last year when the 2 team were throwing Hail Marys cause that was their only shot to win the title. This is the track position era, and Brad is always in good track position at some point. Chad has flubbed this quite a few times, including blowing a sure win at Dover last year. "The reason for Jimmie's success is that the schedule is filled with cookie cutter hack tracks. Return to the schedule build of the 80s and first half-90s, and he's screwed." Again, they would adapt to whatever is thrown their way. In 2004, with Darlington as a cha$e race, they swept both races there. It was removed beginning in 2005, and they have won once there since. Coincidence? All that testing and engineering would go towards short tracks if this were the mid 80s or early 90s. Besides, JJ's legendary cool and calm would serve him well on the tight quarters of short tracks. 324. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.30.2012 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And yes I know last year Tony kinda threw the whole formula for winning the cha$e away, but you will see that occasionally with all playoff formats. Every so often you will have a team like the 2007 Giants or last year's St Louis Cardinals squeak in to the playoffs and CATCH ON FREAKING FIRE! That was Tony and his team last year, and I wouldn't expect to see that very often. It will happen again, but not very often. 325. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.30.2012 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And just in case you couldn't figure it out, I was referring to the 2007 New York Football Giants (copyright Howard Cosell). 326. LordLowe posted: 07.30.2012 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Leaf is Much Much worse than Tim Couch potato 327. DamonHillFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, but it has been shown that Jimmie wins far less at driver tracks, especially when the only driver tracks left are Dover, Martinsville, Loudon, and Phoenix. And those tracks only made up 6 races then, not 8." Okay, so let me make sure I have this right. You say that the only driver tracks left are Dover, Martinsville, Loudon, and Phoenix. Do you realize Jimmie has won at Dover more than any other track? At those 4 tracks, Jimmie has 20 wins in 81 starts which is a percentage of 24.7%. His career winning percentage is 15.1%. How can you say that it has been shown that Jimmie wins far less at driver tracks, when you name off 4 driver tracks that Jimmie has won at a LOT? The facts disagree with your statement. 328. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The factor working AGAINST Jeff is that he is, I hate to say, a doormat. As you said, DSFF, Dale Earnhardt wouldn't have stood for it. Chad would have had his face cracked open more than once by the guys you mentioned. In fact, I have been silently hoping Jeff would leave Hendrick ever since 07. But he won't because of the pay and job security. The whole farce called Hendrick Motorsports is why I became such a fan of F1. There at least the teams admit they are working in one drivers favor. However, there is a code of ethics that should be followed. If you hvae $9,000,000 and 3 cars, then there should be $3,000,000 in each car. In Hendrick's case, he has about $200,000,000, and $75,000,000 in Jimmie and Dale, $40,000,000 in Kasey, and $10,000,000 in Jeff's car. A driver with any guts would have breached the contract if necessary to leave. Then again, the only driver with any parts is Tony Stewart. 329. cjs3872 posted: 07.30.2012 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, there's a difference between the driver deaths (Terry Schoonover and Grant Adcox) in the races you mentioned, as well as the deaths of Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin, Jr., Tony Roper, and Blaise Alexander, and the death of a giant like Dale Earnhardt, Sr. When someone of Earnhardt's stature is killed, that affects everyone, especially the top drivers in that race, which Gordon and Wallace were. That's why guys like Gordon and Wallace were so shaken over Earnhardt's death. That's a sad reality, but it's true. And as for your point about Jimmie's titles, I've said the Chase has cheapened the championships themselves, not the feat in stringing so many of them together. The feat of stringing so many of them together is an unmatched feat, and should be appreciated as such. It's not likely ever to happen again. You and I have a difference of opinion of how important championships are in terms of a driver's legacy. You say it's the most important thing, while I think it's the overall body of work that is the most important, regardless of how many championships a driver has won. And as for your point about what Jeff did in 2001. Sure he won the most races and won the championship, but you had the feeling all year that the racing in 2001 was tempered for most of the season. But in 2002, drivers like Johnson, Matt Kenseth, Kurt Busch, Ryan Newman, and other young drivers who really were either not racing at the Cup level or had not for very long at he time of Earnhardt's death, so they would not have been affected by it as much. But the stars that were racing at the time of Earnhardt's death were greatly affected by it, and every one of them suffered a downturn in performance, with the possible exception of Tony Stewart, because that occurred at the start of just Stewart's third season in the Cup series. And as for the comments about Gordon not leaving when Knaus started asserting his unofficial authority at HMS. Remember that Gordon has a lifetime cotract at HMS, so I don't think he would leave, but he's not a strong personality, and never has been. In fact, Rick Hendrick has refrained from hiring strong personlities as drivers ever since the situations with the likes of Geoff Bodine, Tim Richmond, and even to a lesser degree, Darrell Waltrip. That's one reason having Kyle Busch at HMS was destined to fail. Hendrick believes that the strong personalities he hires should be the crew chiefs, not the drivers, and the proof of that has always been there. In fact, Hendrick himself is not a strong personality. 330. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, Gordon does NOT have a lifetime contract. In fact, I have heard that it ends after 2013 some years ago. They have just said that it is so long that it is as good as lifetime. 331. cjs3872 posted: 07.30.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought it was a lifetime contract NicoRosbergFan. If I remember rght, he signed that contract not long after Ray Evernham left to join ABC's broadcasting team, as well as to head up Dodge's effort to return to NASCAR after nearly 16 years on the sidelines. I wonder if Gordon will one day do what Richard Petty did near the end of his competitve career (which ended in early 1988, for all intents and purposes), and leave for a brief period. For those that may not know, Petty left the family team after the 1983 season (and most significantly, the 1983 Charlotte fiasco) to join Mike Curb's team in 1984 and '85. And it was with Curb's team that he scored the final two victries of his career. A lot of people may not know that, especially since his 1984 car looked exactly like his 1983 car, even the car make and paint job were the same. He even aligned himself with Dan Gurney, who built his engines in 1985, as Gurney was a co-owner with Curb on their IndyCar operation, and even their IndyCar drivers, Tom Sneva and Ed Pimm drove for Curb in NASCAR. (Sneva failed to qualify for the 1984 and '85 Daytona 500s driving for STP and Curb and Pimm made the 1988 Daytona 500 driving for Curb in a Sunoco sponsored car.) 332. Talon64 posted: 07.30.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Actually, Jimmie is a 100% car driver. If the car sucks, he does. If the car is good, he is. He is only as good as his car. He can't force a good run like Jeff can; in fact, few, if any, can." How can anyone even tell? I doubt Jimmie's legitimately run outside of the top 10 in a race in more than 5% of his career starts. Which makes just how good he really is or not a huge enigma. also, I'm a Canadian who watches GP2! I DVR them though, but even if I end up finding out who won the races I still watch them because they're usually pretty entertaining. In fact, GP2's at the top of my wishlist for another series for the site to have. It's only existed since 2005 (succeeds Formula 3000) so it'd be easier to add than most others. 333. Talon64 posted: 07.30.2012 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson earns his 58th career Sprint Cup Series victory, putting him 18 wins back of Dale Earnhardt for 7th on the all time wins list. 18 wins away from Jimmie waving a #3 flag 3 years from now when he wins his 5th, 6th or 7th Brickyard 400 and becomes the greatest driver in Indianapolis Motor Speedway history... have you thrown up yet? lol Jimmie now has 10+ top 5's for a 10th consecutive season. In 2012 he's tied for the most wins with 3, has the most top 5's with 10, is tied for the most top 10's with 15 and he's led the most laps at 912. But the win's his first top 3 finish in the 7 races since his last win back at Dover. It's Jimmie's 4th Brickyard 400 win, tied with Jeff Gordon for the most and all coming within the last 7 years. He has just 1 other top 10 there in 11 starts (16.8 avg fin). Johnson also posted the 12th perfect driver rating in the Sprint Cup Series since they had loop data back in 2004. It's the first time since Carl Edwards at Homestead in 2010 (all from @mforde on Twitter, NASCAR stats guy). It's Hendrick Motorsport's series-leading 6th win of 2012 and 2nd straight win. Kyle Busch finishes 2nd for the 3rd time this season, tied with JGR teammate Denny Hamlin for the most, and the 20th time in his career to tie Carl Edwards and Fonty Flock for 37th all time. It's just Kyle's 2nd top 10 in the last 8 races (20.0 avg fin) but is up to 11th in points, his highest mark in the last 7 races. It's Kyle's best finish at Indy, his 3rd straight top 10 there and his 2nd top 5 in 8 starts (6 top 10's, 11.8 avg fin). Greg Biffle ties his best finish at Indy in 3rd, his 5th consecutive finish of 8th or better there (5.0 avg fin, best of anyone over that stretch). It's his 3rd top 5 at Indy in 10 starts (12.1 avg fin). Biffle made his 350th career Cup start, tied with Jamie McMurray who also made his 350th career start in this race. Biffle hasn't had 3 straight top 10's since the first 3 races of the season, but will be looking for 3 in a row at Pocono. For the first time since Sept. 2004 after the 1st Chase race at Loudon, Dale Earnhardt Jr. is leading the Cup standings. It's on the strength of his 15 top 10's this year, tied with Jimmie Johnson for the most, and his 21 straight lead-lap finishes which ties Jeff Gordon's all-time record. Dale Jr.'s 9 top 5's equal his total of top 5's from the previous 3 seasons COMBINED. It's Dale Jr.'s first top 5 in 13 starts at Indianapolis, and just his 3rd top 10 (20.3 avg fin). Jeff Gordon is up to 15th in points, just 25 behind 11th, thanks to scoring the 3rd most point over the last 9 races (2 top 5's, 6 top 10's and an 8.8 avg fin). Gordon picked up just his 3rd top 5 of the season, and needs 4 over the last 16 races to avoid establishing a new career low (7, in each of his first two seasons in 1993 and 1994). It's Jeff Gordon's 11th top 5 and 15th top 10 in the Brickyard 400, most of any drivers, in 19 starts (8.8 avg fin); he's never gone back-to-back races there without a top 10. Denny Hamlin picked up his 11th career pole and 2nd of 2012, after having none in 2011 (his only season in 8 years without a pole). Hamlin finished 6th for just his 2nd stand-alone top 10 of the season (9 top 5's) but his first back-to-back top 10's since May. It's just Hamlin's 3rd top 10 at Indy in 7 starts (16.7 avg fin). After having no top 10's in 11 straight races, Ryan Newman now has 3 straight top 10's. For the Indiana native, it's just his 2nd top 10 in 12 Brickyard 400 starts (19.1 avg fin). Martin Truex Jr. has 10+ top 10's in a season for the 4th time in 7 seasons in Cup, including each of the last two seasons. He's on pace for a career-high 18 top 10's this season based on his season total, but he has just 4 in the last 12 races. It's Truex Jr.'s first top 10 in 8 starts at Indy (21.5 avg fin). Brad Keselowski finishes 9th at the Brickyard for a 2nd consecutive season, but has led 17 and 22 laps respectively in those races. For the season, it's his 4th straight top 10 which is the 2nd longest streak of his career (6 in a row last season). It's his 30th career top 10 in his 109th series start, surpassing (former?) Penske teammate AJ Allmendinger on the all time list. Tony Stewart picks up just his 2nd stand-alone top 10 of the season, but 10 gives him 10+ for a 14th consecutive season (career-low in a season is 16 back in 2008). It's his 4th straight top 10 at Indy, and 8th in the last 9 races (2 wins, 5 top 5's, 6.9 avg fin). 2006 Indy 500 winner Sam Hornish Jr. got his best finish in 4 start in the Brickyard 400 in 16th (26.0 avg fin). It's his best finish in Cup since a 15th at Talladega back in October of 2010. 334. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.30.2012 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I shall press my luck... Webmaster: Are there any new series in the works to be on here? 335. webmaster posted: 07.30.2012 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF: No new current series are imminent, but I've been trying to get detailed American Le mans Series results into the database for a while and those might be up on the site later this year. It's also possible that we might add some more ARCA seasons from the early 90s (maybe more) at some point. 336. Anonymous posted: 07.30.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What about the Mexican and Euro NASCAR series? 337. Michael posted: 07.30.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 4th brickyard awesome! 338. Baker posted: 07.30.2012 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adding World Of Outlaws would be awesome! Just throwing that out there since we're talking about it. 339. webmaster posted: 07.30.2012 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @336: I'm not very familiar with the new Euro series yet, but I'll look into it. As far as the Mexico series, I worked on that a little bit last year but historically the results are generally *so* incomplete that they do not fit well into our database structure therefore that project has been dropped, at least for now. 340. Anonymous posted: 07.30.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What about motorcycle series like SX/MX or MotoGP? 341. Cooper posted: 07.30.2012 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson needs to be considered a Top 5 driver of all-time already in his career. I really think he could hold his own in a race against Petty, Earnhardt and Allison. This guy could be a 7 time champion. Just really glad I am able to watch him race and dominate in his prime. 342. Spen posted: 07.30.2012 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster: Ultimateracinghistory.com has fairly complete results for most ARCA races, going all the way back to '53. Digging up the year end standings would be harder, though. While we're tossing ideas around, they've got most of the AAA/USAC stock car races as well. It might be a good addition, to sort of 'complete the trifecta' of major level stock car series. (Of course, the IMCA makes it four biggies, really, but it's next to impossible to find good records of that. I can't even seem to find a champions list anywhere.) 343. LordLowe posted: 07.31.2012 - 7:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a question for anyone on this board. Who is the biggest Bust in NFL History 344. webmaster posted: 07.31.2012 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @340: Sorry, not really interested in 2-wheelers at this time. Spen: USAC stock car results would be awesome to have here along with more ARCA seasons. I've also had several requests for NHRA over the years, and I might look into that (at least Top Fuel) at some point. 345. JRacingFast posted: 07.31.2012 - 7:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Any thought into putting ASA results from when they were a national tourning series?? 346. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2012 - 7:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, Jamarcus Russell has to be moving up that list. Obviously Ryan Leaf is synonomous with the word "bust". The Boz may be the most overhyped draft pick. That guy from Nebraska whose name I forget who was always in trouble stunk it up with a ton of talent. And Art Schlister, the guy who cost Woody Hayes his job in that game against Clemson after his awful interception, was a bust cause of his gambling addiction. I think Reggie Bush has to be in there too. He has done ok, but he was supposed to be the next Gale Sayers. Prior to last year I would have mentioned Alex Smith, but Harbaugh has him looking great. And of course you have Danny Ferry and Christian Laettner from dook. Whoops, wrong sport. 347. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2012 - 7:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster: your site rocks. Love this place. Just wanted to give you a shout out. 348. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.31.2012 - 8:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Boston was a big bust, but he basically threw his career away. Sam Bradford is starting to look like one. I still say Couch potato. 349. webmaster posted: 07.31.2012 - 9:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JRacingFast: I'd love to have those on here, but I've never found a good source for complete race results from the ASA (though I may not have looked lately). DaleSrFanForever: Thank you very much! I appreciate the kind words from you & I appreciate all of the loyal visitors & commenters that this site has. 350. Paul posted: 07.31.2012 - 10:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are some notable notes for the Pocono Cup entry list: - 44 cars entered - David Reutimann returns to the #10 - John Wes Townley to make his Cup debut in the #32 w/ Zaxby's - Tony Raines in the #36 - J.J. Yeley to make his debut in the #37 - Reed Sorenson returns in the #91, teammates to Mike Bliss in the #19 - Mike Skinner replaces Michael McDowell in the #98; McDowell will be in Iowa for the Nationwide race - The #49 team is not listed - Dave Blaney isn't entered for the first time all season 351. David posted: 07.31.2012 - 11:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No Dave Blaney entered?! What is this world coming to? 352. Rusty posted: 07.31.2012 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave is helping his son Ryan at Iowa. Also, ewwww at JWT making his Cup debut. 353. Matt L posted: 07.31.2012 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Life would be great if I made $133,356 making the same effort the #19 team did. 354. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2012 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Note: Townley is in a Roush car. 355. 18fan posted: 07.31.2012 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hasn't the 32 car been entered in Jack Roush's name all year? I could be mistaken, but I thought the #32 bought the points of last year's #6 car after Daytona, so then they would technically be owned by Roush. I could be wrong, but that's what I think it is. 356. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2012 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well here's something to think about. If John Wes Townley was driving the #32 car last week at Indy, like he will at Watkins Glen this week, with his pendant for spinning and crashing, Jimmie Johnson might have lost the Brickyard 400 the same way Ricky Rudd once lost a race at Phoenix, because Townley might have spun or crashed in the last two turns and might have taken Johnson with him. A great piece of advice for this weekend's Cup race, especially for one of the four drivers capable of geting one of the two Wild Card spots (Kahne, Edwards, Busch, and Logano), is to stay as far away from the #32 car as possible, because Townley is known for spinning and crasing fr no apparent reason. Now that car's been slow all year, but you know that Ken Schrader and Terry Labonte are not going to wreck it. But there's no telling what Townley might do. And if what you say is true Anonymous (#354), why is Roush wasting time and money giving Frank Stoddard, one of his old crew chiefs, a car for such a crash-prone driver to run at Watkins Glen, instead of trying to find sponsorship for his Cup (the #6/17 is not fully sponsored for next year, and neither is the #99 car, as far as I know) and/or his Nationwide team. To me, that's another indication that Roush is probably going to scuttle his Nationwide team at year's end, unless something dramatically changes. In fact, he may already have made that decision, and this may be another indicator of that. 357. Rocky Lore posted: 07.31.2012 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To clear up any confusion for the #32: Stoddard sold his 2011 owner's points to Michael Waltrip Racing so Mark Martin would race. Stoddard put Terry Labonte in the car using the past champion's provisional. After Daytona, Roush sold the points to the #6 to Stoddard's team. Does it really matter as long as the team remains in the Top 35? So technically, Roush is listed as the owner of the #32 because the team is using the points from the #6. 358. Rusty posted: 07.31.2012 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #356, Townley is driving the #32 this weekend at Pocono. Not Watkins Glen. 18fan is correct btw. The #32 team bought owner points off of Roush's #6 after the Daytona 500. So it technically says owned by Jack Roush, but it is Frank Stoddard's team. Roush has no interest in doing anything for JWT who runs for RAB Racing. This is likely going down because JWT is bringing Zaxby's sponsorship to a team that needs money. 359. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2012 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, thanks for correcting my error on what race Townley would be running, but the overall point in that post remains. If the rumor is true, why Roush would spend time and money giving Stoddard a car for such a crash-prone driver is beyond me, especially considering he can't find sponsorsip for his own teams. This move tells me that he may already have made decisions on where his organization my be heading in the future, especially where the #6/17 car is concerned, as well as the future of his Nationwide program. A possibility is that he could sell his Nationwide team to Penske, since he's running Fords next year, or Richard Petty if he stays with Ford, allowing that team to expand, and maybe allowing Trevor Bayne (if he doesn't wind up with another Cup team, like Penske) and Chris Buescher a place to continue their development with Petty's team. Selling his Nationwide team to Penske, if that's what he does with it, may give Roush some more of the money he needs fund the car Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. is scheduled to drive in the Cup series next year, if sponsorship can't be found. And let's remember that the #99 car of Carl Edwards is not fully sponsored, either. 360. Spen posted: 07.31.2012 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Townley brings his own sponsorship money, so that's probably the main attraction for Roush. And didn't he formerly run for Roush in the Truck series? 361. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Spen, that also says something about the situation that Frank Stoddard may be finding himself in. Stoddard's team has aso been running extremely light on funds practically all year long. I don't think he's done any start-and-parks so far this year, but the fact that he needed to have Roush send him a car and have a crash-prone driver like John Wes Townley drive it because of the money he brings tells me how close the #32 team was to have to begin doing S&P's. And remember that, along with the eight S&P's outside the top 35 in owner points (I think the #30 will go back to that this week, despite it's very impressive lead lap showing at the Brickyard), the 10 (possibly), 13, and 36 may all do S&P's this weekend, which would bring the total of S&P's for the Cup race, if what I suspect proves true, up to 10 or 11, or one quarter of the field. And had the #32 car not found Roush and Townley (and his money), they may have had to do a S&P, as well, which would have made it a potential of 11 or 12 S&P's for a Cup race. 362. Anonymous posted: 07.31.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 10 car is a full race this week and so is the 37 (I think), the 36 will park. On the FAS Lane situation, it is basically the same as the 24 nationwide car. In other words, have sponsorship = will race. Look at who they have used so far this year and last year: Labonte (brought C&J Energy) Schrader (brought Federated Auto Parts) Bell (brought Green Smoke) Said (brought HendrickCars.com) Ranger (brought Bully Hill Vineyards) White (brought Gun Broker) Townley (Zaxby's) If nobody else who had sponsorship wanted the ride, they put in a veteran like Mike Bliss / Mike Skinner / Reed Sorenson (maybe not a veteran, but a solid driver). And even then, they almost always find a sponsor. I don't think they are close to S&Ping at all. Yes they certainly are on a tight budget, but they have more sponsorship than FRM / TBR / Germain. They fill their niche quite nicely for the time being while continuing to search for a full season sponsor so that they can put the same driver in week after week. That is when we will see their results improve. 363. Eric posted: 07.31.2012 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, Tim Couch really can't be considered the biggest bust of the 1999 class in terms of Quarterbacks. That draft class had 5 Quarterbacks drafted in the first 12 picks of the draft. Akili Smith actually was a worse Quarterback than Tim Couch. Tim Couch actually should be considered to be the 3rd best Quarterback out of the 5 Quarterbacks picked. That class had Couch, Mcnabb, Akili Smith,Daunte Culpepper, and Cade McNown as first round Quarterbacks. Mcnabb and Culpepper were best 2 Quarterbacks from that draft. Tim Couch was hurt, but there was a big problem with the Browns. I remembered the NFL changed Expansion team rules after how good the Panthers and the Jaguars were in their 2nd year. The Browns didn't have a good line if I recalled right like the Houston Texans didn't David Carr. What also hurt the browns for Couch is how bad the drafting was with the first round from 2000 to 2002. Akili Smith was worse. He was the 3rd pick of the 1999 draft, but he flamed out very bad. He was a one year wonder in College and wasn't that accurate. I remembered him trying out for the Packers and he was pretty bad. Couch was more accurate and had at least a decent season. That can't be said with Akili Smith. Cade McNown was so bad that he only lasted 2 years with the Bears before getting injured any not playing in the league again. His performance was not great based on what I remembered. 364. 10andJoe posted: 07.31.2012 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS - Townley HASN'T been spinning and crashing very much this year. He'll probably never shed the Swervin' Irv...I mean John Wrecks Weekly reputation, but he is MUCH improved. 365. MStall41 posted: 07.31.2012 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one who thinks drastic measure to make drafting and pack racing a factor at Indy would be just crazy enough to make the race a must see event again? God knows Indy is big enough. 366. David posted: 07.31.2012 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 10 in points using my system 1. Jimmie Johnson - 915 2. Dale Earnhardt Jr. - 840 3. Matt Kenseth - 833 4. Greg Biffle - 799 5. Denny Hamlin - 798 6. Tony Stewart - 758 7. Brad Keselowski - 729 8. Clint Bowyer - 667 9. Kasey Kahne - 645 10. Martin Truex Jr. - 643 367. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.31.2012 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Swervin Irvan won races on a variety of tracks in inferior equipment during his MMM years and at a physical disadvantage after his '94 crash. Only in his first stint in the 28 car was he in top equipment. So yeah he caused a lot of wrecks pushing too hard at the wrong times, but he was also a threat. You can't say that about John Wrecks Weekly. 368. David posted: 07.31.2012 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wild Card Standings using my system WC Rank (Actual Rank) Driver Name - Wins - Points 1. (11) Kyle Busch - 1 - 630 2. (15) Ryan Newman - 1 - 520 3. (16) Joey Logano - 1 - 473 4. (12) Kevin Harvick - 0 - 621 5. (13) Jeff Gordon - 0 - 546 6. (14) Carl Edwards - 0 - 528 7. (17) Paul Menard - 0 - 429 8. (18) Jeff Burton - 0 - 399 9. (19) Marcos Ambrose - 0 - 396 10. (20) Jamie McMurray - 0 - 381 369. David posted: 07.31.2012 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've got Nationwide and Truck standings too, but they are several races out of date. I am also working on the K&N Pro Series (East and West), the IZOD IndyCar Series, and every Cup season in the Modern Era. 370. JG24FanForever posted: 07.31.2012 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know this is late. Jeff Gordon does have a Lifetime contract.He's also 25% owner of Hendrick Motrosports and 75% owner of the 48 car. as far as Johnson being greater than Gordon because the #5 is greater than the #4. Road Race wins: 9>1 Plate Wins: 12>3 Short Track wins: 15>10 21 Top 5 seasons: 4>0 10 win seasons: 3>1 Longest Top 5 streak: 17>7 6 straight Top 5 streaks: 6>2 Chase wins: 3>20(damnit!) Crown Jewel wins: 20>12 wins against each other: 27>58(Johnson kills Gordon in this) Best average finish in a season: 5>1 Most wins in a season: 6>3 Led Most in a season: 6>4 Most Poles in a season:(I know poles don't matter on this site) 6>1 I think Gordon is still pretty well clear of Johnson in overall Career terms. 371. David posted: 07.31.2012 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am probably the one person on the site who cares about pole positions, seeing as how I use them in my standings. 372. cjs3872 posted: 07.31.2012 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank you, JG24FanForever. Your last post verified much of what I thought, including the fact that Jeff Gordon has a lifetime contract with HMS, which he signed either in late 1999 or early 2000. And your comparisons with Gordon's stats against Jimmie's, especially where like comparisons can be me made also verifies why I have Gordon #3 all-time on my list, and #2 when and if he ever wins again, even though I've even begun to call him a fading star, which I think he is. However, some of your comparisons are invalid for one reason. Gordon's been around twice as long. That's mostly true when it comes to seasons winning the most races, most top 5s, streaks of top 5 finishes of 6 or more, seasons where he's led the most laps (though I suspect Johnson will eventually catch Gordon in this regard), and even wins on short tracks, and number of tracks won on. However, there's another reason why I consider Gordon the greater driver, even with one less championship, and that's the caliber of drivers he had to go against at or near the peak of their careers. Johnson never had to go against guys like Rusty Wallace, Dale Jarrett, Mark Martin, both Labonte brothers when they were at their peaks, and most significant of all, Johnson never once was on the same track at the same time as Dale Earnhardt, Sr. Gordon had to race against each and every one of those drivers when they were at their peaks, and even had to race against a competitve Darrell Waltrip for a few years, and while Bill Elliott and Geoff Bodine weren't winning many races, they were also competitve. Gordon also had his share of battles with Ernie Irvan, including that first Brickyard 400 and a couple of great battles at Richmond. Taking nothing away from what Jimmie has accomplished, but aside from Gordon and Tony Stewart, Jimmie has not had to race against drivers of that quality during much of his reign. Sure the number of competitve cars was higher for much of Johnson's reign than it was for Gordon's, but the the drivers that Johnson has had to beat were, for the most part, far weaker mentally than the ones that Gordon had to beat. And Johnson has not had to battle nearly as many drivers of championship caliber as Gordon had to battle, especially at the peak of their careers. Now that's not saying that Johnson couldn't beat all the other championship-caliber drivers I mentioned, but he didn't have to. It could even be said that Johnson reigned in a transition period of the sport, much like Darrell Waltrip did when the sport was transitioning from the Petty-Allison-Yarborough-Pearson era to the one dominated by Earnhardt, and Waltrip's reign occurred during that transition. As has been noted, Johnson's five championships can be nothing but marveled at, but some of those title that Johnson won, he would never have even sniffed if the competition he faced was mentally tough, and Carl Edwards, Denny Hamlin, and even to a lesser degree, Mark Martin and Kevin Harvick were not mentally tough to go toe-to-toe with Johnson. In other words, the titles that Johnson won in 2008 and 2010 he would never have won if his competition was, say Rusty Wallace, Dale Jarrett, or either of the Labonte brothers when they were championship-caliber drivers, and Earnhardt (and RCR) would likely have chewed him up and spat him out in at least three of those five championship seasons (2006 and 2009 being the likely exceptions). 373. Spen posted: 08.01.2012 - 2:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs: I think you overlooked Matt Kenseth when discussing championship calliber drivers that Johnson has faced. But in any event, while I agree that Jimmie's reign hasn't come in the most impressive era ever, I don't think he's really had less competition than Gordon had from '95-99. Yes, Gordon was on track with some of the legends in their prime, but he wasn't really much of a factor in '93 and '94, so you can't really count that too much. For Gordon's main period, Waltrip, Elliott and Bodine were all in non-competitive owner/driver modes, and not really competition for him at all (though Bodine at least did manage one final win). Ernie wasn't in his prime after the accident, so we can't count him, either. Rusty's best days were over once the rainbow warriors caught and passed his previously unbeatable pit crew, and from about '97 onward, Rusty became the undisputed king of thinking his way out of wins. He wasn't really a championship threat after '94, with the *possible* exception of '98. Terry was a real threat for the first two years of Gordon's reign, but after he beat him in '96, he wasn't a week-in, week out contender anymore. Bobby's career was held back by Gibbs waiting too long to get onboard with the multi-car craze, so '99 was the only year where Gordon really had to deal with him regularly. Now yes, Gordon did beat out Earnhardt in '95, which is a huge feather in his cap (much like Johnson beating Gordon in '07), but after Talledega '96, Earnhardt wasn't fully himself anymore. That pretty much leaves Jarrett and Martin as the only consistent threats throughout Gordon run. Jarrett got further on mental stability than he ever could get on sheer talent. Some people were trying to compare him to Edwards earlier this week, but I think "Kenseth with crazy great horsepower" would be more appropriate. But at the end of the day, he was just a solid driver in a fantastic ride. And Mark Martin was well, Mark Martin. Consistently played it too safe to really knock Gordon off his throne, even when he had the faster car in '98. And Burton of course was even more of a pushover. So overall, I'd say that if anything, Johnson's had slightly higher competition than Gordon had in that time. Only slightly, though. By the way, you listed 2006 and 2009 as the titles that Johnson would still have won regardless of who he was up against. Since the chase would likely still be around even if we had Earnhardt and company racing today, I'd say 2007 looks safe, and 2006 does not. Johnson's average finish during that chase was downright awful, but luckily for him, everyone else not named Tony Stewart screwed up a few races themselves. If he'd had real competition, he would have lost that season easily. His '07 chase run (and to a certain extent, his '08 one) would have been much harder to beat. 374. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2012 - 5:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But here is the thing: head to head JJ has simply obliterated Gordon. All while Gordon being in a driver's traditional prime years. Had JJ got to be in Jeff's sister car from '95-'99 and somehow being the age he was during his title years, who is to say he wouldn't havee done the same and stole numbers from Jeff? 375. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.01.2012 - 5:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, there is no way to determine that, but I just can't see it because the driver had so much more control of the car. I just think of it this way: now there are more winners in a season, mainly because so many big teams have 3 or 4 cars when teams would have 1 or 2 cars in the 60s or 70s. However, you can definitely see that drivers had more control. You almost never see a driver like Steve Grissom running up front anymore. In the past, a driver was far more likely to that because the cars depended on drivers. So somebody could come out of the woodwork and get a top-5 because it all depended on talent. Comparison of such: driver Jim Hunter, a top-5 or 2, some top-10s, and a pole. Average for a handful of starts, but do you really expect me to believe that the modern equivalent of J.J. Yeley or Josh Wise is somehow going to turn around and leading 80% of the race en route to victory lane? Never going to happen in the decade past or the future, right? But it could happen as late as the 90s because the driver was so much more important. 376. BON GORDON posted: 08.01.2012 - 11:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dont care. Your can give me all the stats in the world, head to head bull. Gordon is the best. 377. Rusty posted: 08.01.2012 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AJ Allmendinger has been released by Penske, to the surprise of nobody. 378. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2012 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, you're right when you say I forgot about Matt Kenseth. But what I was trying to do was to make a different point, in that that drivers tht Gordon had to face in the height of his supremacy (1995-2001) were much tougher mentally, and to be quite honest, tougher drivers, than most of those that Jimmie has had to deal with during his reign. For instance, how can you say that Bill Elliott wasn't competitve? The car and team was holding him back, something that got proven from 2001-'03. But Elliott was plenty competitive, even though he never won from 1995-2000. Geoff Bodine was as tough as they got, but suffered from the same malody. Darrell Waltrip was making a comeback in '95, and I think he would definately had found victory lane, if it weren't for his crash in the All-Star Race when he was battling Gordon and Dale, Sr. for the lead. And you say Ernie wasn't in his prime after the accident. That may have been true, but he still won three times after that and was another "tough as nails" driver. Rusty was also in top form, but he was often torpedoed by Robin Pemberton's bad pit calls (sounds a lot like Alan Gustafson today). You also say that Dale, Sr. wasn't himself after his Talladega crash in 1996. I don't think that affected him. What did affect his performance was that his team was in decline even before that happened. But my point was that Johnson didn't have to face as many great drivers as Gordon did when he was on top, and more importantly, he didn't have to face as many top-flight drivers that were tough mentally. To me, there are only about four or five drivers that are mentally tough today, where there were about 8-13 of them in the late 90s and early 2000s, so what I was saying was that Johnson was rolling mentally weaker competition, not necessarily more talented competition. I think the wins last year for Trevor Bayne in the Daytona 500 and Regan Smith in the Southern 500 may have proven that more than anything else. Those guys were mentaly tougher in the big moment than the more celebrated drivers they beat. And that's one reason, especially given what he's been through, that Trevor Bayne might be more ready for the Cup series than any of the other young drivers, because all that he's gone through will make him mentally tougher than any of his other peers. Stealing that Nationwide victory from Carl Edwards last fall at Texas, despite the fact that Edwards had a much faster car tells me that Bayne just wanted it more, and seems to be tougher from the neck up than his other younger peers. Talent will only get you so far, but you have to want it more and be mentally tougher than your rivals, which is why Jimmie Johnson towers over the reat of today's drivers. He wants it more, and he's racing against a group of drivers that is mentally weaker than any in the sport's history. 379. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2012 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree competition is as mentally feeble as ever. But here is the thing: Jeff has run all those races too! Mostly all in his 30's. So why hasn't he feasted on the competition in these years? I give him a pass for '08-'10. He was injured and uncomfortable in the car which never equates to long term success (cjs, you are right that RCR really began falling behind when the new Monte Carlo came out, but Dale was famous for pushing not top fleet cars to wins and championships when healthy like in '80, '91, '93, and '94 and also his second place points finish in '00 once he was healthy again despite not even leading 300 laps that year). But the rest of the time? He has had it handed to him by JJ. And that is the thing: WE HAVE HEAD TO HEAD STATS FOR THESE TWO. So there isn't much of an argument for Gordon being better than JJ. That is why nowmade the comment I made about '95-'99. No, we can't prove that, but we can make a damn good case for that. We have one proven fact: head to head JJ is better than Gordon. So if he were 9 years older and also started in '93 in sister cars to Jeff's, how much further ahead of Gordon would he be statistically right now? And given their biggest disparity which is closing abiility, how many titles would Jimmie have swooped from Jeff like he did in '07? 380. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.01.2012 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with cjs that the body has a shelf life. Jeff used up his best years in the nineties and brought on his equivalent of 1989-1995 Darrell Waltrip much sooner. 381. 10andJoe posted: 08.01.2012 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This just in: Carl Edwards is going to run the Nationwide race at Watkins Glen. 382. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2012 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing with Jeff Gordon when it comes to the years that Jimmie Johnson has been the dominant force in the sport is that he's only had cars and teams competitve with Jimmie's in three of those years, 2004, 2007, and last year. In 2004, at the time of his Brickyard win, he had five wins to Jimmie's four, but then Chad Knaus turned off the information spicket, and Gordon never won again the rest of the year, while Jimmie won four times. Early in 2005, Gordon won three times early in the season, but again got the rug pulled out from under him by Knaus, and this time Robbie Loomis decided he had enough, and left when Gordon missed the Chase for the only time until this year. Then in 2007, it happened again. Gordon had a dominant season, winning six times, but when he built a 70-point lead (that's an estimate) heading into Martinsville, Knaus again turned off the info spicket, and the #48 won the next four races, while Gordon became less and less competitive. But last year, away from Knaus' influence at last, Gordon actually had better cars than Johnson almost all year, and the results show it. He won more races than Johnson for the first time (3-2), including a thrilling showdown at Atlanta. And it seems that whenever Gordon is battling Johnson for a win, more often than not, Gordon is the one that comes out on top. Gordon's biggest problem this year has been a crew chief that doesn't know how to call a race, as well as some of the worst and most extended period of bad luck I've ever seen for any driver. And DSFF, you're right. The one trump card Johnson has over Gordon is that he's always finished out seasons. But overall, give me Gordon at his best over Johnson because of the reasons I mentioned. The drivers he beat were a tougher crowd than the ones that Johnson has beat. After all, nobody races Johnson the way Gordon's rivals raced him, except for maybe Tony Stewart and Gordon himself. And if you're right 10andJoe, it's about time that drivers such as Edwards raced in the Nationwide Series, for a few reasons. Say what you want about having Cup drivers in the Nationwde fields, but at least having Cup drivers means more competitve cars in the race. And I think Carl Edwards has come to the realization that I came to a long time ago, and that is the advantage running the Nationwide race gives the drivers over those that don't during campanion races, because that's basically a free 200-300 mile test, and they get the competition as well. Certainly the "runner-up hangover" has something to do with Edwards' decline in performance this year, but another is him not running the Nationwide races this year. I believe that's also been what's been happeneing to Kyle Busch this year. Meanwhile, the other Gibbs drivers continue to run the Nationwide races, and it's helped them a great deal. 383. Mr X posted: 08.01.2012 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When a driver traditionaly hits his prime is meaningless, all that matters is when Jeff hit his prime, which was from 1995-2001. 384. Talon64 posted: 08.01.2012 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This just in: Carl Edwards is going to run the Nationwide race at Watkins Glen." If there's any type of track where extra track time is a benefit, it's on a road course. So it's no surprise Roush is entering Carl in order to give him a better shot at winning the race. And the Glen's actually one of his best Cup tracks, 8.7 average finish is his 4th best anywhere. But if Kyle Busch, Newman, Logano or hell even Gordon because I think he'll get to 11th in points by Richmond, then Carl's going to be in a REAL heap of trouble as far as making the Chas. 2 wins in 5 races? That isn't happening for the #99 team, unless Chad Norris invokes the power of Chad (Knaus), i.e. cheats. lol 385. Talon64 posted: 08.01.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But a 2nd win by Kyle, Newman or Logano would really screw Gordon as well. 1 win in 5 and 11th in points? That's probably his best case scenario at this point, but two drivers with 2 wins would really screw him over just like with Carl and anybody else in the top 20. 386. Rusty posted: 08.01.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not surprised to hear Carl is returning to Nationwide, even if it is for just one race. I figured he couldn't make it the whole season without running at least one of these races, he's always taken the series more seriously than a driver of his status should. I'm honestly shocked he didn't try to enter for Indianapolis since the first NNS race there was supposedly such a big deal according to ESPN. 387. Talon64 posted: 08.01.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said, I think it's just for the extra track time to help his chances of winning at the Glen to make the Chase. If he were 5th in points with a win or two then I don't think he'd be running the race. It's a good thing extra track time on road courses helps, because we get Brad Keselowski in the #22 instead of Jacques Villeneuve. Thank you Cup drivers!!!!! lmao 388. Rusty posted: 08.01.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I normally would complain about Cup drivers running the NNS, but give me Brad in the #22 over Jacques every single day. I'm tired of seeing that fool ruin someone's day in every event he enters. 389. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That doesn't make any sense to say the group of drivers Gordon beat were tougher than the groop JJ beat because GORDON HAS BEEN IN THAT GROUP THAT JJ HAS BEAT! In prime years. Ccould it be this is a really good group now but they just look bad next to JJ? It just makes sense to me that if Gordon feasted on those guys from '95-'99 and now JJ has been feasting on Gordon for the past 10 years, then doesn't 1 + 1 = 2? And could it be that the perceived mental weakness of this group is due to the constant monitor they are under, exposing every flaw? Ask anyone who covered the sport in the 1970's, in the heat of battle he had one hell of a temper. But he was able to keep it out of public sight because there wasn't a lot of coverage. We saw some of that last year as Dinger mouthed off a bit to a 74 year old Richard who immediately collared that little shrimp and let him know real fast he was barking up the wrong tree. He famously told Bill Elliott in 1985 when he was starting too crack under the (at the time) unparalleled scrutiny he was under to always smile for the cameras, reporters, and public then go behind his truck and start cussing people out. What about the 1979 Daytona 500 fight? It was Cale getting into it with BOBBY Allison who had nothing to do with the wreck, he just stopped to give his brother a lift back to the garage and Cale whacked him in the face with his helmet. Jimmie has simply brought this sport to its knees. He has been mostly unflappable despite every move of his in a race weekend being closely monitored. 390. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.01.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^in the second paragraph I am talking about Richard Petty 391. cjs3872 posted: 08.01.2012 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you're right about Gordon being one of the drivers that Jimmie has beaten over the last decade, and I have mentioned that, but Gordon is one of the only three or four mentally tough drivers that he has beaten during that time, the others being Tony Stewart, Matt Kenseth, and Mark Martin. Just look at the defeatist attitude his rivals seem to have. You wouldn't see a Dale Earnhardt, Rusty Wallace, Elliott, Jarrett, Irvan, or either of the Labonte brothers have that kind of an attitude in 100 years after being thrashed like Johnson thrashed his competition Sunday. They would have the attitude of "we'll get 'em again next week", but these guys today are so mentally weak that they sound defeated. And you wonder why Johnson won five straight championships, and may be on his way to a sixth this year. Johnson has done to his competition what Jack Nicklaus was famous for doing to his competition back in the 1970s, and that's defeating it before the event even started, especially in the big championships. I have never once said that Johnson couldn't race with the stars of the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. What I have said is that Johnson would never be able to do to those drivers what he does to these drivers today, and that's to beat them into the ground mentally. And I would love to have seen what would have happened if Jimmie Johnson would have gone up against the Jeff Gordon from 1995-2001. I would say that Gordon would win out more often than not, but it would be close, though interestingly, it seems that most of the time those two have a head-to-head battle for the win, if their cars are equal, Gordon is the one that usually wins out. It was going to happen at both Martinsville and Dover this year, it happened at Atlanta last year, and at Texas in 2009 when they had equal cars. In fact, I can only recall one instance where Johnson beat Gordon when Johnson did not have the superior car, and that was the 2007 spring race at Martinsville. Other than that, when they've had equal cars battling for the win, Gordon has won out, more often than not. And that's another reason I rank Gordon ahead of Johnson. Put them head-to-head in battles for the win in relatively equal cars, Gordon wins more often than not, and the record books show it. 392. Dave #38 Fan posted: 08.01.2012 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) running nns races does give the cup drivers that run them an advantage, that's why i believe they should be banned from competiting in them. or, at the very least, if a full time cup driver intends on running a companion nns race, they should be forced to sit out all cup practice sessions and start in the rear of the field regardless of qualifying position. that, or limited to 1 or 2 lower series starts a year at a race that would be important to them, like david gilliland running the k&n west series race at his hometrack, sonoma. also, isn't it a little ironic that the main three cup drivers that ruined the nns series over the last few seasons, busch, harvick, and edwards, were some of the last nns regulars to make it into cup before 2006, when cup regulars essentially ruined the legitamacy of the series. i can almost guarantee, if those three were just starting out in the post-2005 nns series era, they would have long since gone the way of kelly bires, matt dibenedetto, stephen leicht, and brad coleman, all talented drivers shafted by their owners for cup drivers. 393. LordLowe posted: 08.01.2012 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A lot of people have been comparing NASCAR to the WWE lately which gave me an idea. Lets have Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson do battle in a 50 lap anything goes heat race in Martinsville and the loser of the race must retire from NASCAR. 394. Rusty posted: 08.02.2012 - 12:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Running Nationwide races isn't a massive advantage by any means. It gives them more track time, that is about it. The cars are so different and Cup cars make a lot more horsepower and are just harder to drive. The ONLY thing NASCAR needs to do with the series is start giving it its' own identity again. That took a huge blow watching the Nationwide series run at Indianapolis instead of IRP. Over the last 10 years we've seen tracks like Nashville, Gateway, Nazareth, Pikes Peak, Milwaukee, IRP and Memphis come off the schedule in favor of more companion weekends. We also saw Kentucky lose its' minor series brand and become a Cup track. We only have THREE tracks on the schedule for 2012 that the Cup series doesn't visit. Iowa (which will likely end up a Cup track within the next 10 years), Road America and Montreal. We also get two stand alone weekends for Nationwide, but they are just 2nd races at Chicagoland and Kentucky, two Cup tracks. WHY? Why not give one of those races to a new interesting track. I don't mind Cup drivers racing in the NNS, it does make it fun, my problem is that the series is just become an opening act for the Cup race. The schedule is almost a copy of the Cup one, and I about expect them to bring the NNS to Pocono someday too. Give the series its own identity again, then the amount of Cup drivers/wins will go down too. The problem is, that isn't what NASCAR wants out of the series anymore. They just want an extra attraction to draw crowds out. Something that really doesn't work IMO. 395. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2012 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, you say that Cup drivers running Nationwide races is not a massive advantage, but you also say that it gives them more track time than those that do not run the Nationwide races. Pardon me, but that can be a very big advantage, depending on the track. Remember that ever since 2002, the Nationwide race has been the final time cars are on the track prior to the Cup race since 2002. In other words, the drivers that run the Nationwide race know what the track is going to do when you put a lot of laps on a set of tires, how the track and handling conditions chaange when the fule burns off, and they know what the tires are going to do, how much they'll fall off during a fuel run, as other thing pertinent to the Cup race. I don't know about you, but to me, that gives them a very sizeable advantage on those that don't run the Nationwide race. Just look at this year for an example. Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch, and Kevin Harvick have all cut back on their Nationwide schedule. In fact, Edwards hasn't run any Nationwide races at all this year to date (that will change at Watkins Glen). And all three drivers have struggled this year. Kyle runs the Nationwide race at IMS, and he has his best run ever in the Brickyard 400. Conicidence? I think not. Meanwhile, Brad Keselowski and Denny Hamlin continue to run the Nationwide Series, and they've been very successful this year, and again, I think that's a big reason why they've been successful. The extra track time gives the drivers that run the Nationwide Series races information that the other drivers don't have. And another thing about Cup drivers in the Nationwide races. For every one that runs the Nationwide race, tht's one less car that S&P's, meaning that's one more competitive car on the track that intends to run the full distance. You watch this week's Nationwide Series race at Iowa, and we'll see about 10-14 cars just park before making a pit stop. Now as for why running the Nationwide races doesn't always translate into success on the Cup circuit, that answer is simple to me. The difference is the distance of the races. It takes a lot more discipline to run 400 and 500 miles races than it does to run a 200-300 mile race, and the drivers we see win these races and championships are drivers who have a lot of patience, something you really can't exhibit in the shorter Nationwide and Truck Series races, and can only be learned through experience. That's why it's been nine years since a driver who drove extensively in the Nationwide Series won a Cup championship (Matt Kenseth in 2003). But as for set-ups, running the Nationwide race the day before the Cup race really gives the drivers that do a big advantage. Of course, if it rains in between, a lot of that advantage is gone, though they still know what will happen before those that don't run the Nationwide race do. 396. Anonymous posted: 08.02.2012 - 7:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since A J has been fired, who gets the 22 for next year? 397. JRacingFast posted: 08.02.2012 - 7:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @396 Depending on his performance maybe Hornish is the 1st pick otherwise Bayne,lagano? maybe we will see a Ryan Newman/penske reunion since he wont have full sponsership on the #39?? 398. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.02.2012 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LordLowe, if they crash each other out do they both have to retire? If so then I'm all for this. 399. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 08.02.2012 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...Good god. Was I the only person who enjoyed the race? Am I the only driver who can't stand Bob Jenkins' commentary from 'back in the day', let alone any of those people from that time? Am I the only one who likes today's commentary? Am I the only Jimmie Johnson fan left? I mean, really people. I think that the majority of you might be very sick with nostalgia. I mean, temperature of 105, near hallucination sick. YOU at least have a series to watch and complain about! I understand being critistic over something like rule inconsistency or the like, but because a race is dominated by someone who did good on restarts and his team had the best areo pacakge? Let me guess, you want to see a very-very fixed NASCAR, don't you, even though you'll never admit it. You want to see Brad Keselowski win almost every other race, no chase, and anyone who led the most laps 'honestly' won with lots of three/four wide racing and record amounts of lead changes? NOT EVERY RACE IS GOING TO BE LIKE THAT! The 2010 and 2011 Aaron's 499 were exceptions. They were the rarity. Most NASCAR races will be like this. Live with it. If it angers you that much, move onto the Indy Car series. You all seem to be suddendly passionately loving it after irresposibly *accidentatly also* killing Dan Wheldon and that *** call at New Hampshire last year. And THAT was just last year! Honestly, the majority of you guys are spoiled. Enough said. I know I'm going to get blasted by every commenter here, but It has to be said. On a second note, I wish I never supported AJ Allmendinger at the start of this year. I also have the feeling that Penske will not be able to put anyone good in that car. And don't get me started on Bayne. He's been way to rushed. Give Trevor the rest of this year, and then we'll talk. And on a final parting note, I have never been a Dale Jr fan, but I am cheering the hell out of him to win this championship because that is the only thing that will 'save' NASCAR. Because spoiled fans on both sides of the isle are killing it. 400. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 08.02.2012 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only driver who can't stand Bob Jenkins' commentary from 'back in the day', let alone any of those people from that time? I said driver? My bad. I meant fan. God, Now I feel stupid-ish. 401. Talon64 posted: 08.02.2012 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to admit, the "quality" of the races has never stopped me from watching them or made me stop halfway through. Have race on TV, will watch it. "Am I the only Jimmie Johnson fan left?" You're going to love this. If you take away the plate races (of which there's still one left in the Chase, so some worries there), Jimmie Johnson has a 5.2 average finish this season. FIVE POINT TWO. And he's led the most laps this season. There's no doubt in my mind that Jimmie's the 110% favorite to win the championship right now. Dale Jr.'s consistency probably makes him the Jeff Gordon to Jimmie's Jimmie like back in 2007. And maybe Kasey Kahne can get 3rd for a Hendrick 1-2-3 like in 2009. Hell if Jeff Gordon can squeeze into the Chase 1-2-3-4 isn't out of the cards. 402. LordLowe posted: 08.02.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At post 398: Oh Hell Yeah 403. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.02.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, you are the only person that can't stand Bob Jenkins commentary from back in the day. But you aren't the only JJ fan. I've noticed quite a few fans of his at the track. I personally have a ton of respect for him. But DAMN I am sick of watching him win. I think if he would show his true personality on camera, which by all accounts is funny as hell, it would be better. On another JJ topic, how funny was that watching him trying to get his little daughter to kiss the bricks? All the adults are happily bent over (but none with the awesome ass angle of Brad after his Saturday win) kissing those filthy bricks, and she is looking around like "are y'all crazy? I ain't doing that!". Simply precious. 404. cjs3872 posted: 08.02.2012 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Destroyahirismix666, give Trevor Bayne the rest of the year? You mean the eight races he has left this year, because that's all he has left for the year. He has seven more races in the #21 car and the Nationwide race in the #60 car the weekend of the Bristol night race. He's not being given a fair shot at Roush due to sponsorship reasons, so that's why some people think, myself included, that he may end up at Penske next year. If something doesn't happen for him soon, his career may be over before it really begins. And I actually heard on Race Hub last night that Roush might want to hook him up with Penske just to get him some seat time (which I find highly debateable), since Penske is rejoining the Ford ranks next year, and that the #22 Cup car is a possibility. There has been only one thing Trevor Bayne has lacked in his brief time in NASCAR, and that's stability. Penske would give anyone stability. And I still think he would have been a better choice for the 6/17 car next year with Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. going in he #21 car part-time, because Stenhouse has just two Cup starts under his belt, and he needs more experience at the Cup level before being thrust into such a high-profile ride. If you look at the other top champions in the spot the last 20 years, each of them have one thing in common. None of the rides they got were high-profile rides. In fact, Gordon, Stewart, Kenseth, and Johnson, who I consider the four best over the last decade, all began with teams that were started to build around them. To me, that has been one of Joey Logano's biggest problems. He started his career in one of the highest profile rides in the sport (the #20 car and team that Tony Stewart built into a powerhouse), and frankly, he's had trouble trying to live up to that, so a change may be the best thing that could ever happen to him. Even Mark Martin had a start-up team (Roush Racing in 1988) and Robert Yates started a second team for Dale Jarrett after Ernie Irvan returned late in 1995. So you look at the sport's elite over the last 15-18 years, virtually every one of them did so with a team that was a start-up team. 405. Red posted: 08.02.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I mean, really people. I think that the majority of you might be very sick with nostalgia." I actually agree with this. There's nothing wrong with fondly remembering the past, but there are some fans who think EVERYTHING was better back in the day, and carry a prejudice against anything that's going on in the current era. Today's racing sucks, today's drivers are sissies, today's commentators are idiots, today's television coverage is the worst it's ever been, if Dale Earnhardt were still alive then none of this would have happened, etc. I am rather tired of hearing those things on a weekly basis. Are there certain aspects of NASCAR racing that I liked better in the 80's and 90's than I do now? Yes. But my reasons for saying that have nothing to do with nostalgia, and everything to do with the quality of the product. As far as Jimmie Johnson's perception amongst fans, I think it's eerily similar to what we saw with Jeff Gordon in the late `90's. He won too much, so people hated him, and made up excuses for why he was winning (he's a cheater, he has the best cars, he has a genius crew chief, NASCAR loves Chevrolet, etc). Jimmie deals with almost exactly the same backlash right now. Fast forward to 2025, and you'll hear fans longing for the good ol' days when that 48 car was tearing up the track, and how the new guys just don't have what it takes. Just watch, it'll happen. BTW, I enjoy your Aussie perspective and commentary, it's refreshing to hear things from a different point of view. 406. Anonymous posted: 08.02.2012 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have to admit, the "quality" of the races has never stopped me from watching them or made me stop halfway through. Have race on TV, will watch it." Beat me to it, Talon! lol 407. Smiff_99 posted: 08.02.2012 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^Seconded 408. 18fan posted: 08.02.2012 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also will watch the entire race no matter what the quality of racing is. I was more upset actually with the outrageous number of commercials at Kentucky than with the poor quality of the racing. I am currently on a streak of watching every lap of every Cup race and every Formula 1 race this year and I will try to make that last the entire season. 409. Baker posted: 08.02.2012 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone know where I can find an all time wins list for USAC sprints, midgets and silver crown? 410. 10andJoe posted: 08.03.2012 - 3:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #400: Yes, you are. However, I get the feeling I'm the only person who wanted to plug his ears every time Ken Squier was announcing. :P ...but Bob Jenkins, Benny Parsons and Ned Jarrett in the booth, with Dr. Jerry Punch, Bill Weber and John Kernan on pit road, is and always will be the Gold Standard by which announcing teams will be measured. 411. David posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I 100% agree with posts #399 and #405. And I will watch a race on TV whenever I can (we don't have cable or satellite service), because NASCAR is NASCAR. 412. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hmmm, Okay. I'll try to adress these responses. First, thanks for not blasting me to...you know where...and back over it. #401: 5.2? That's stunning. I'm happy. I started watching NASCAR back in 2004, and to see JJ having this good of a season is nice. I'm just kinda fed up with the hate dealing with the dude. #403: I understand that. I have respect for Tony Stewart. Can't stand the guy. I have respect for the Late Dale Sr. But when I look back at his good and bad days, I can't stand him. And yes, it was pretty darn funny with Johnson's daughter. #404: I know, I know. We've been here before about Bayne. But I don't think that Roush will give him up. Something in my craw tells me that Roush has to many 'cards' *Drivers* and not enough chances for them to be used *aka, Cars with sponsors*. And Roush knows this, but refuses to belive it. I think he'll hold onto these drivers as hard as he can. Of course, that might not mean anything with Kenseth pretty much going bye-bye. But still, I know that Trevor has done some good things, but look at drivers who had one of their first 3 NASCAR wins in the Daytona 500. Sterling Marlin and Dale Jarret aside, they didn't seem to fare to awfully well. Furthermore, I saw the errs made with rushing Logano into the ranks of Cup. I'm very cautious now of what Nationwide drivers should be pushed into Cup. Heck, Martin Truex Jr was a two time Busch champion, and he's accomplished not much in NASCAR's top division. Maybe all my 'bias' against Bayne is simply because I'm looking at stats to much, and not looking at him. But Stats have repeated themselves often. I may be dead wrong. I hope I am. I hope that if he does land a stable Cup ride, he is a consistent driver. #405: Good to see someone understand about me thinking people are overloaded with nostaliga. I, sadly, was not around during the mid-late 90's when Gordon tore up the track, so I'm not sure if the amount of hate directed at Jimmie is the same amount that was directed at Jeff. But Aussie? nah. Full Blooded American. #406/407: Well, that's good to see. #408: I understand. I felt like the number of commercials during the infenion race was ridiculous. #410: I don't like Ken Squier that much either. I think the only guys I like from then would be Dr. Jerry Punch and Benny Parsons *RIP*. Anyways, That aside. POCONO! We'll get there slow and then we'll take it fast! I realize that not many of you like the place, but what controversy will be stirred up there? And how will JG lose another race? 413. David posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) To add a little to my last post, I actually listen to most of the races on the radio. 414. David posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @412 He will probably cut a tire down while leading on the last lap a la Dale Earn.hardt in 1990 at Daytona 415. David posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That period wasn't supposed to be there. 416. David posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, in only one week we almost surpassed the amount of comments made on the Loudon thread in two weeks. 417. David posted: 08.03.2012 - 12:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speed just epically FAILED in practice. They showed a graphic which displayed the longest winless streaks in the Cup Series. Martin Truex Jr. supposedly has a 187 race winless streak going back to Homestead in 2003. Jeff Burton's goes back to Dover 2007, and another driver whose name escapes me hasn't won since Charlotte in 2008. 418. David posted: 08.03.2012 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One of them also said that the race at Bristol was some of the best he has seen there. Go figure. 419. David posted: 08.03.2012 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whew. I'll shut up now. 420. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.03.2012 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing you have to remember about Ken Squire on those old CBS broadcasts is that hehe was trying to reach the audience of people that were probably tuning in to a NASCAR race for the first time and get them to follow it weekly by explaining the history of each driver and things that had happened in the past. For those of us who already knew those stories, yeah it was hard to listen to. I think that is a part of what made those old ESPN broadcasts so fun for us. I read an interview with Benny Parsons once after he had gone to NBC and he mentioned that the ESPN producers at the time told him we are aiming for the long time fans. Here is my moment of announcer blasphemy: I never cared for Chris Economacki. I have the utmost respect for him and his passion for racing and his trail blazing, but I just never cared much for him. 421. NicoRosbergFan posted: 08.03.2012 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My opinions of Denny took a big hit when it was announced today that he is going to be a father... despite being single, but I'm a prude. 422. JRacingFast posted: 08.03.2012 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @417 is the other driver your trying to think of bobby labonte?? 423. murb posted: 08.03.2012 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We can all breath easily now. John Wes just got replaced in the 32 by Jason White. 424. 18fan posted: 08.03.2012 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Townley hit the wall on his warmup lap in the first practice and then was replaced, so he never ran an official lap. 425. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.03.2012 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Wrecks Weekly couldn't even make a single turn in practice without screwing up and getting replaced. Pathetic. 426. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Destroyahirismix666, Roush may not want to get rid of Trevor Bayne, but he may have to for lack of sponsorship, whether he likes it or not. And as for your point about drivers getting at least one of their first three wins in the Daytona 500 (two have gotten two of their first three in that event), you mention that Sterling Marlin and Dale Jarrett were the only ones to have fared well. Actually, Marlin didn't fare all that well, either, though he did have a long career. And you (and others) mention that you didn't exactly care for Ken Squier among commentators. How did you feel about the likes of Jim McKay, Keith Jackson, Bill Flemming, Jackie Stewart, and Sam Posey (all from ABC Sports), as well as David Hobbs, Brock Yates, and Ned Jarrett (from CBS Sports), as well as Chris Economaki (who worked for both ABC and CBS)? And you (Destroyahiriasmix666) and David mention what might happen to Jeff Gordon (who seems to be slow yet again this week), and mention a flat tire on the final lap, much like what happened to Dale, Sr. in the 1990 Daytona 500 to cost him a victory. Well, that's exactly what happened to Jeremy Mayfield in this race in 2000. Mayfield was seeking his third win at Pocono, and a sweep of the races there in 2000, and had the race won, lock, stock, and barrel, until he cut a tire entering the tunnel turn on the final lap, handing the win to Rusty Wallace, so that kind of thing has actually happened in this race before, as well. And 18fan, you point about John Wes Townley hitting the wall on his warm-up lap (how's that even possible?) makes my point about Townley being crash-prone for me better than anything else ever could. How could a guy crash on his warm-up lap when he's not even up to speed unless he was utterly incompetent? 427. 10andJoe posted: 08.03.2012 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >How could a guy crash on his warm-up lap when he's not even up to speed unless he was utterly incompetent? I dunno. Mechanical failure? Tire failure? Oil on the track? Frankly the Townley-bashing on here is getting pathetic, given that he has proven /not/ to be crash-prone this year. Then again some people just won't let go. 428. Paul posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I don't think Roush has any say in how Frank Stoddard operates his team. If he did, he probably wouldn't even allow a member of "The Dark Side" (Toyota) to drive one of his Fords. Not only does JWT drive a Toyota, he's also been sponsored by Toyota for several Nationwide and Truck races this season. 10andJoe, I suppose it's possible that a mechanical failure or something non-driver related caused JWT to hit the wall. But if that's the case, why would Stoddard replace Townley, who brought sponsorship from Zaxby's, if the crash wasn't his fault? I agree that JWT has improved since '09/'10 as far as not crashing a whole lot, but this Stoddard was obviously not comfortable keeping him in the car and risk tearing up another car (or two), and that's why he made the switch to Jason White. I feel bad for JWT as this could be his only shot at Cup, but to be quite honest, he blew it. 429. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2012 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not just that Paul, but also, Stoddard's #32 car has also been sponsored by HendrickCars.com in one race this year that I know of (Sonoma). And as we all know, Hendrick is a Chevrolet man and has had many a battle with Roush over the years. But remember that Roush was instrumental in aiding Michael Waltrip's #55 team earlier this year, though it was more to aid Mark Martin, who drove for Roush for 19 years, the fact remains that he DID aid a Toyota team this year. And also remember that the #32 car IS a Ford, and Roush basically supplies all the parts and peices to virtually all the Ford teams (Penske's rejoining the Ford ranks may drastically affect this). And let's not forget that another reason Roush wants to help the #32 team is because it's owner, Frank Stoddard, was himself a very successful crew chief at Roush for Jeff Burton when he succeeded the legendary Buddy Parrott in the late 90s, so Roush wanted to help out one of his more successful crew chiefs. He may not want to help a Toyota driver, but he would to keep a Ford team going, especially a Ford team owned by one of his better crew chiefs, one that one, among other things, two Coca-Cola 600s (including the team's first in 1999), the 2000 Firecracker 400, and the 1999 Southern 500 at Darlington. 430. Paul posted: 08.03.2012 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You have a point about Frank Stoddard previously working for Roush and Roush wanting the other Ford teams to succeed, but I just think that with all he's got on his plate with his own teams and the question marks surrounding sponsorship for all 3 Cup cars, his Nationwide team, and Trevor Bayne, I don't think Roush would even bother interfering in Stoddard's business. Also, Boris Said did race at Sonoma in the 32 car with HendrickCars.com as the sponsor, but the Ford labels were not present on the car. It makes sense because of the manufacture difference (along with team difference) that went along with that sponsor, but that tells me that Roush either isn't involved or just doesn't care at this point. It's possible that he could be doing it to help out Stoddard's team, but that idea didn't even enter my head until after you pointed out the history between the two. Also, now that I think about it, I wonder if Roush had something to do with selecting Jason White to replace JWT in the car. White drives a Ford in the trucks, so perhaps Roush advised Stoddard to pick him. 431. Paul posted: 08.03.2012 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It could be that White drove for Stoddard at Pocono last year and he was at the track anyways, but it's possible that Roush played a hand in the decision. Plus, if he did, he wanted someone who wouldn't tear up equipment. 432. Dave #38Fan posted: 08.03.2012 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) roush is only listed as the owner of the #32 because the #32's owners points from 2011 went to mark martin's #55, and the #32 team got the #6's owners points from last year after this years daytona 500. jack roush has NOTHING to due with frank stoddard or his team. i can't believe townley...hitting the wall in turn 1 on the WARMUP lap!? you can say mechanical failure, oil on the track, etc, all you want, the fact remains that townley couldn't pour water out of a boot if you wrote the directions on the bottom. 433. DaleSrFanForever posted: 08.03.2012 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree Paul, if it were mechanical they wouldn't have replaced him. I just think it is John Wrecks Weekly doing what he does. 434. ch posted: 08.03.2012 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Roush has nothing to do with the 32 except that he (through Roush Yates) supplies engines to them that are down on horsepower. They are even a step below the FRM engines, and that's saying something. But that's all that FAS Lane can afford right now. 435. cjs3872 posted: 08.03.2012 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also Paul, as far as HendrickCars.com sponsoring Said at Sonoma, remember who else has been driving the #32 car most of the season. Terry Labonte and Ken Schrader, who were teammates at HMS for three years (1994-'96) and drove for Hendrick for a combined total of 22 years (13 for Terry and 9 for Ken). And it has been said that, once you drive for Hendrick, and succeed for him, and both Labonte and Schrader did, particularly Labonte, that Hendrick never forgets, and it's possible that Labonte's and Schrader's history with Hendrick helped Stoddard land that sponsorship deal with HendrickCars.com for that race at Sonoma. 436. murb posted: 08.03.2012 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to bash on John Wes. I know he's had his problems off the track and stuff in the past. But my god, he's been racing for how long? He hasn't improved at all in the 4 or 5 years he's been around. Sure, he hasn't torn as much stuff up this year. But still... I have no idea why they gave him a shot in the 32 car. He clearly hasn't proved himself in one of the lower series. They should have just had Jason White as their guy to begin with. I thought he did reasonable in last year's race here, for it being his first Cup start at least. Hopefully he'll do a good job on Sunday. 437. cjs3872 posted: 08.04.2012 - 1:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I mentioned in this forum that part of why Jeff gordon has not won a championship in the last decade had to do with the #48 team's witholding information late in the year (and I suspect this happened in 2004, as well). On Friday's edition of NASCAR Now, this was confirmed by a member of Gordon's team that year, who told ESPN's Ryan McGee that the #48 team had, in fact, stopped the flow of information to the #24 team sometime late in the season. I suspect it occurred after the Chase race at Talladega, where Gordon passed Johnson on the final lap to claim victory. When Gordon passed Johnson, Chad Knaus, Johnson's crew chief, was furious that Gordon would pass Johnson on the final lap win (isn't that what he was supposed to do?), and that's proabably when the information sharing stopped. But there's always been some uneasiness between Knaus and the #24 team in those days. I remember a race at Martinsville in 2003 where Knaus told Johnson to effectively wreck Gordon, or at least to knock him out of the way, to win that race. When Rick Hendrick heard that communication, he told Knaus and Johnson not to do that, remembering such an incident at that same track in 1990. So Knaus in particualr has always seemed to have an axe to grind against Gordon in some way. We'll see what happens if it's the 48 vs. the 88 for the title this year. Johnson said that they'll share information throughout the season, but with Knaus involved, I highly doubt that. We all know that Knaus is willing to cheat, and I'm reminded about Alan Gustafson's comments after the Daytona 500 qualifying controversy at the beginning of this season when he said that they (the other HMS teams) don't cheat up their cars like Knaus does. As much as I've chided Gustafson about his inability to call a race, at least he had the moxie to do something nobody else at HMS has ever done, and that's to call Chad Knaus' integrity into question. And what was revealed on Friday's NASCAR Now just furthers that. We all know Chad will be up to some kind of skull duggery if it comes down to his team and another HMS team, but what will it be? 438. 10andJoe posted: 08.04.2012 - 4:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >But if that's the case, why would Stoddard replace Townley, who brought sponsorship from Zaxby's, if the crash wasn't his fault? Turns out Stoddard did NOT replace Townley. It was TOWNLEY'S call not to drive the car. 439. David posted: 08.04.2012 - 9:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy 41st birthday to Jeff Gordon! 440. JG24FanForever posted: 08.04.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy 41st Birthday J.G. 441. Daniel posted: 08.11.2012 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #91 Reed Sorenson Out using fastest 43: #32 Ken Schrader 442. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 04.24.2014 - 12:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew 49 TBA Toyota TBA Jay Robinson 443. Rich posted: 12.30.2020 - 7:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allen Bestwick, Andy Petree and Dale Jarrett were the commentators. Dr. Jerry Punch, Dave Burns, Vince Welch and Jamie Little were the pit road reporters. Nicole Briscoe, Brad Daugherty, Rusty Wallace and Ray Evernham were in the ESPN pit studio. 444. Altracing posted: 01.03.2021 - 9:00 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Regan Smith's car for this weekend paid tribute to the victims of the horrible shooting in Aurora, Colorado at the Aurora Theater which was located about seven miles from the Furniture Row Racing shop just nine days prior to the race by having the names of the victims on the car. An inscription on the back of the car included "For Those Lost, Those Injured And Countless Acts of Bravery 7/20/12." ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: