|| *Comments on the 2012 AAA 400:* View the most recent comment <#353> | Post a comment <#post> 1. David posted: 09.29.2012 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice run for Hornish. 2. 18fan posted: 09.29.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm so glad Logano can win Nationwide races. Too bad he's only been a factor to win about 5 Cup races in his career. 3. Smiff_99 posted: 09.29.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, apparently Denny fell in love....lol 4. 10andJoe posted: 09.29.2012 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) post-Nationwide race thought: what is this racetrack, and what has it done with Dover? 5. murb posted: 09.29.2012 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't even watch more than 20 laps of the NNS race. I'm going through one of those periods where I'm not really interested in racing, so you guys probably won't see me around as much on here. However, I will be watching the race tomorrow, and I'm really interested to see how Denny will do from the pole considering how bad he's always been at Dover. Hopefully it won't be a snoozefest like New Hampshire. 6. Rusty posted: 09.29.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Nationwide race was boring, I'll watch football instead of tommorrow's race. 7. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 09.29.2012 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Hamlin wins this race.................. i shutter at the thought. 8. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.29.2012 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last time I saw Denny smirk like that was after Texas '10. Just saying. I think Joey might become my go to "hate" guy. He is an easy target. Rich kid, Dad spent over $1 million to get him in position for an undeserved spot at Gibbs, floundered like hell in the legendary #20 Home Depot car, is getting another undeserved shot at Penske (seriously Brad, what the hell?) Is a world beater and dominator on Saturdays, invisible on Sundays, has a completely unwarrented superiority complex. What's not to have fun hating? 9. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 09.29.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Testing is coming back next year. 4 test per organzation, NOT per car. I'd like too see more then 4 tests per organzation but far enough. Good call NASCAR. 10. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 09.29.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^fair, not far. 11. Eric posted: 09.29.2012 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How come no one here has yet mentioned about Danica getting Ryan Newman's crew and crew chief next year? It sounds like to me that Ryan is getting Furniture Rowed at Stewart-Haas and I feel sorry for Ryan's current crew chief and crew going to to Danica next year. Danica is a black hole for any crew chief. Ryan Newman's crew and crew chief is getting Furniture Rowed also by going to an inferior driver. 12. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.29.2012 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) According to the report it will be a good deal for Danica cause Tony Gibson is a lot like Tony Jr. Do they mean the same Tony Jr who got his ass canned by his own cousins for underperforming with her in the NWide Series? Does everyone in NASCAR think we are stupid? This is getting out of hand. 13. 10andJoe posted: 09.29.2012 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The testing news, meanwhile, shows an unprecedented outbreak of sanity... 14. Jim Davis posted: 09.29.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How come no one here has yet mentioned about Danica getting Ryan Newman's crew and crew chief next year?" This might make sense if the intention was to relieve Gibson from the 39 team regardless of what was planned for the new Patrick team. Maybe the decision makers at SHR figured that Gibson, while not the man to push a veteran like Newman to be a championship contender, might be a good crew chief to show a rookie driver the ropes a la Eury, Jr. 15. Benjamin Lowe posted: 09.29.2012 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This racetrack used to put on some good races in the past like in the fall races there in 2006 & 2008 and in the spring race there in 2009. What caused Dover to become so boring. 16. Schroeder51 posted: 09.29.2012 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #15 Beats me. Dover used to be one of the more entertaining race tracks through the 90s and most of the 2000s. In the past few years or so, it's started to turn into a borefest. 17. cjs3872 posted: 09.29.2012 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can tell you one thing that's changed since 2008, and that's the point system. That has made virtually every race more conservatively driven, because the drivers know they can't afford to make a mistake. Just look at Jeff Gordon. His throttle sticks at Chicago, causing him to crash, dropping him to the basement in the Chase standings, 47 points behind the leader and half a race behind even 11th place. Then last week he finishes third, and gains a grand total of two points on the lead, and is still in the cellar in the Chase standings by about 10 points. This past week, Kyle Busch has become the latest to decry the conservative brand of racing the current points system demands. Darrell Waltrip did it earlier this year. It's time for NASCAR to make some major revisions to the point system, where the top ten finishers are concerned. Otherwise, we're going to continue to see this bland action on the track for some time to come, because the drivers know they can't make a mistake, because if they do, seven good races in a row likely won't get them out of the hole that one bad race puts them in without others having similar trouble. 18. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.29.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dover, due to its unique nature, has always been susceptible to a stinker because if one team really nails the setup they can simply dominate. But you all are right, it was a lot of good races with a few stinkers in between. Now it is the opposite. I blame the tire mostly because, although the upper grooves are an option, they won't beat a car that can hug the bottom groove. Dover used to be notorious for blown tires, so Goodyear panicked as usual and brought their conservative tires that nobody can race on. Now a team that hits on something can really blow everyoone right out. Just a microcasm of what is wrong with the entire sport as a whole imo. 19. 18fan posted: 09.29.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This truck broadcast is bad even by their standards. 20. Paul posted: 09.29.2012 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think that it's a combination of the tires and the points that causes the racing at Dover (and many other tracks as well) to be a snooze-fest. With the points, like cjs said, there's little to no reward to gain positions during the race at the risk of tearing your car up. The reward for moving from 6th to 5th is the same for moving from 26th to 25th: 1 point. Unless the car in front of you makes a mistake, has a problem, or is just much slower than you, there's no reason to make a pass for position, especially at early points in the race. Plus, I think teams know that there will be cautions during the race that will bunch the field up, whether they be legitimate or phantom cautions, so there's no reason to try running a car down in the first half of the race because you'll get to them eventually with little to no effort. What adds to this is the tire situation. The size of the fuel cells were reduced so that tires last an entire fuel run, so by the time the tires are starting to fall off, it's time to pit for fuel, so there's no reason to worry about wearing out the tires outside of a spin, fender damage, or a broken part in the suspension. But even with the leverage that the drivers have with an easier tire situation, there's no reason to use it to its fullest potential because, once again, the points situation renders all it completely meaningless. There's no reason to drive the wheels off the car because there's no added incentive in finishing top 5 from finishing top 25. So as long as you can stay on the lead lap and/or keep the car clean in a competitive ride, you're pretty much given a good finish. This is somewhat off topic, but how about this Truck race tonight at Las Vegas? The draft seems to play a big factor with the trucks and is keeping the field bunched up and not letting the leaders pull away too much. Maybe it's not so much that the tracks are bad as it is the vehicles racing on them, because the draft plays little to no factor in the Cup and Nationwide races at LVMS (or any intermediate track for that matter). If NASCAR can make it so that the draft plays a bigger factor on the Cup and Nationwide cars, the racing will likely improve from "snooze-fest" to "watchable". cjs, you've talked before about how the Cup cars used to benefit from the draft a lot more back in the day. Could you reiterate your point on what changes NASCAR could make to make the draft a larger factor in these races? 21. Benjamin Lowe posted: 09.29.2012 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You Know Jimmie Johnson in my opinion is the John Cena of NASCAR in that they always win. 22. cjs3872 posted: 09.29.2012 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, what I have said on the topic of making racing better on the intermediates is that they need to find a way to dirty up the air, so that drafting can become important again. The biggest way I think they can do that is to use the wickers that were a part of the 2001 restrictor plate rules package. And by the way, due to a short field (only 34 trucks started) and about eight or nine S&P's, there are only 23 trucks running at the halfway mark in tonight's Truck Series race at Las Vegas, which last year was a part of the tragic IndyCar weekend. 23. Eric posted: 09.29.2012 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After tonight's truck race, this race has proved Nelson Piquet Jr. has the ability to pass for the win in the final laps of a NASCAR race. He's someone to keep an eye on next couple years for the Nationwide series. 24. cjs3872 posted: 09.29.2012 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nelson Piquet, Jr.'s move on Matt Crafton was an almost exact duplicate of the one that Carl Edwards tried on Jimmie Johnson at Kansas a few years ago, with one very big exception. Piquet actually made his move work, and pulled away from a shocked Crafton to take the win. You see a move like that about once a year, if you're lucky. What Nelson did on the final lap is more of what NASCAR needs in all it's series, someone that is actualy willing to take the risk, because that has been desperately lacking for the last couple of years. It was almost as if he was saving that move for the last lap, because he had tried the inside for a few laps, but couldn't get by. But then he pulled a Darrell Waltrip special, and did what Crafton wasn't expecting, and that was to dive bomb him on the final laps. And lost in that was the fact that, after losing the lead just after one of the late restarts, he made it three wide and went up very high and brushed the wall trying to get his position back, and never backed off the throttle. That, plus his move on the final lap tells me that Piquet just wanted it more than anyone else did. And best yet, he made that move on Crafton without ever touching him, though he was willing to if it came down to that. A masterful drive, to say the very least. 25. MStall41 posted: 09.30.2012 - 1:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The poor racing in recent years at Dover has zero to do with points racing and everything to do with the terrible tire Goodyear brings to Dover along with the clunky nature of the COT. And yes, drafting is the reason why the Truck Series is awesome. Lack of drafting is killing the Cup Series 26. JG24FanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 17 With most Podium finishes since 1993(The Jeff Gordon/Post-King era): 1. Jeff Gordon 204 2. Jimmie Johnson 128(The only driver with any shot at 200 again) 3. Mark Martin 124 4. Tony Stewart 117 5. Dale Jarrett 95(so very underrated) 6. Jeff Gordon 86( Between 1995-99 haha!) 7. Rusty Wallace 81 8. Dale Earnhardt 79(Impressive since it was only from 1993-00) 9. Bobby Labonte 75 10. Jeff Burton 70 11. Matt Kenseth 69 12. Dale Jr. 63 13. Kurt Busch 61(he was emotional after getting his lone Top 3 at Sonoma) 14. Kyle Busch 59 15. Denny Hamlin 58 15. Kevin Harvick 58 17. Carl Edwards 57( 0 all year) 27. JG24FanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "13. Kurt Busch 61(he was emotional after getting his lone Top 3 at Sonoma)" I meant his lone Top 3 this season. and notice that the gap between 1st and 2nd is bigger than the gap between 2nd and 17th. even though Gordon in 6th place doesn't count... 28. cjs3872 posted: 09.30.2012 - 12:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MStall41, you have to remember that Dover may be the toughest track to come up with a good tire for, and there are two reasons for that. The first is the track layout. Because of of the ups and downs of the layout (quite literally), as well as the speeds, Goodyear has to brng about the most durable tire they have, because if you blow a tire there, it might knock you out for a while. the second is the concrete surface, which is incredibly hard on tires. As a result, Goodyear again has to bring out about the hardest compound it has, or otherwise tires would blow out every 40 or 50 laps, if they last that long. The one thing Goodyear and NASCAR are obliged to do is to have a safe tire, and Dover is the toughest track to build a safe tire for because of the speeds (qualifying speeds were about 160 MPH with straightaway speeds about 180) and concrete surface of the track. Sure the quality of the racing might suffer, but I'd rather see a race of slightly poorer quality than have a softer tire and have about 8-10 right front blowouts that might cause injury beacuse of how hard a car would hit the wall (and possibly break it, that has happened at Dover). And when I mentioned about the points system hurting the quality of the racing at Dover, it's not just Dover where that's hurting the quality of racing, but everywhere. Another poster mentioned there were great races in 2006 and 2008, and he asked what had changed in the years since then, and the most obvious answer was the point system that encourages conservative driving was introduced last year. Sure it's not the only thing that has hurt the racing at Dover, but I was just answering aonter's question. Tires, as you mention MStall41, may have hurt the quality of racing, but I'd rather see a conservative, safe tire that have 8 or 10 cars crash because of blown tires, and that used to be the case. You'd see 4, 5, 6 cars crash in every race at Dover simply because the tire wasn't durable enough. I'd rather see a safe race than one marred by blowouts and crashes, even if it does mean a slightly less exciting race. 29. Mr X posted: 09.30.2012 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would also say that Dover suffers from the same thing that the Monaco street circuit suffers from in Formula One, though to a lesser degree. F1 cars are obviously rediculously fast, and on the tight city streets of Monaco they are too fast for how much room they have on the track, they have to be inch perfect every lap, and the margin of error is zero. It is almost impossible to pass at Monaco, to my eye, especially with the clunky nature of the COT that MStall41 pointed out, there just isn't enough room, or margin of error for the high speeds at Dover. In other motorsports news, either I am ignorant or this was first announced yesterday and this probably isn't the best place to bring this up but I heard yesterday on Speed Center that Lewis Hamilton is leaving McLaren for Mercedes AMG next year, he is replacing Michael Schumacher, and being replaced at McLaren by Sergio Perez. I would like to congratulate Chris Economaki on leading a fantastic life, may he rest in peace. He will be missed, my regards to all his family and friends. Albeit late here are my up to date standings with my points system, the top 15 without the chase, and the top 13 with the chase. These standings are as of Loudon last Sunday, those looking for Chicago's standings can find them on Chicago's cup race comments page, comment #293, those of you looking to find how my system works can find it on the Watkins Glen cup race comments page, comment #272. Top 15 as of NHMS-Race #28 without Chase Driver-Points Total-Bonus Points-(Difference) 1. Jimmie Johnson-31250-706-(Leader) 2. Greg Biffle-30306-362-(-944) 3. Dale Earnhardt Jr.-30294-258-(-956) 4. Brad Keselowski-30220-312-(-1030) 5. Matt Kenseth-29621-289-(-1629) 6. Denny Hamlin-29575-607-(-1675) 7. Clint Bowyer-29181-169-(-2069) 8. Martin Truex Jr.-28432-252-(-2818) 9. Tony Stewart-28032-280-(-3218) 10. Kevin Harvick-27661-117-(-3589) 11. Kasey Kahne-27345-121-(-3905) 12. Kyle Busch-26096-460-(-5154) 13. Jeff Gordon-25837-193-(-5413) 14. Ryan Newman-24953-9-(-6297) 15. Paul Menard-24529-17-(-6721) Top 13 as of NHMS-Race #28 with Chase Driver-Points Total-Bonus Points-(Difference) 1. Jimmie Johnson-43151-111-(Leader) 2. Brad Keselowski-43071-51-(-80) 3. Denny Hamlin-42842-110-(-309) 4. Tony Stewart-42623-23-(-528) 5. Kasey Kahne-42581-1-(-570) 6. Clint Bowyer-42484-4-(-667) 7. Dale Earnhardt Jr.-42128-0-(-1023) 8. Kevin Harvick-41960-0-(-1191) 9. Martin Truex Jr.-41880-0-(-1271) 10. Greg Biffle-41856-0-(-1295) 11. Kyle Busch-41767-27-(-1384) 12. Matt Kenseth-41746-2-(-1405) 13. Jeff Gordon-25837-193-(-17314) Keep in mind that under this system Jeff missed the chase and Kyle made it in. All of the bonus points you see under the chase standings are after the first chase race, with the exception of Jeff Gordon. If Jeff made the chase as the 2nd Wild Card in 12th he would be sitting 12th in points currently with 41664-4-(-1487). If Kyle missed the chase he would be sitting 13th with 26096-460-(-17055). 30. Jim Davis posted: 09.30.2012 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The command to start engines in today's race brought to mind a pet peeve of mine. I get that with the growing number of female drivers the traditional "Gentlemen, start your engines!" is no longer adequate. Nowadays we usually get "Drivers, start your engines!" Only occasionally, we get "Ladies and gentlemen, start your engines!" Why the preference for the former? The latter sounds much classier and preserves the tradional form as well. Does this bother anyone else or is it just me? 31. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It looks like Denny has picked up exactly where he left off last week. 32. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What do you guys think Tony Gibson and the #39 team are thinking right now? 33. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where is ESPN to be over the moon that Ricky Stenhouse stayed on the lead lap for 60 green laps. 34. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 09.30.2012 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actual Debris holy crap. 35. Dave #38 Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) at least this is a legitamate debris caution. 36. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ZOMG! An actual debris caution. I don't know what to do. 37. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) J.J. Yeley's right front tire just popped going down the backstretch, tearing the fender up in the process. 38. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Best ESPN moment of the season: the legend Bobby Allison in the booth. 39. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seven-time Dover winner Bobby Allison made an appearance in the booth. He said that Jimmie Johnson may beat his record for Dover wins, but he won't beat his miles, noting how he won 7 500-mile Dover races. He even compared JJ to David Pearson about how they conserve their stuff until the very end and let the competition beat themselves, telling a funny story about how he and Richard Petty would beat and bang on each other all race, and then get beat by David at the end and have to clean the scuff marks off their cars while David got to be the pretty girls in victory lane. Awesome. 40. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the #2 team's jack broke during Brad's pit stop, putting Brad at the tail end of the lead lap. 41. murb posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What do you guys think Tony Gibson and the #39 team are thinking right now?" That next year should be fun!!!! I'm surprised to see how some of these guys are running. Brad has never really been that good at Dover. Ditto for Hamlin and Bowyer. And at the same time guys like Stewart, Kenseth, and Harvick (who finished 2nd in the Spring race) are running further back. Not that bad of a race thus far. 42. murb posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One other random thing: That Nascar Fantasy Live commercial is really getting on my nerves. When they play the clip of Bestwick saying "Trouble, Bowyer in the wall", I always think it is in the actual race. It messes with your mind. 43. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now would be a great time for one of those phantom cautions I always complain about. 44. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Phantom caution for Creepelowski, sure enough. NASCAR can't betray its new golden boy. 45. Anonymous posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boom! 46. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ironic. 47. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle is sounding a lot like a Busch right about now. 48. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle had to make an unscheduled pit stop for a loose wheel. He's now 2 laps down in 25th place. 49. murb posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Biffle sounded pissed right there. 50. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Take that Busch Brothers. The Biff just kicked y'alls ass in the radio tirade department. Just epic. 51. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The heart-stopping incredible exciting action the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series can also be found in your local laundromat or laundry machine, enjoy. 52. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another fake caution, people! Isn't it just WONDERFUL how amazingly predictable these races are becoming nowadays? 53. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I can't complain about these fake cautions cause the first fake one helped Brad. 54. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 50-100 laps of green, debris caution, 50-100 laps of green, debris caution. It must be incredibly boring to be a crew chief strategy-wise these days. 55. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad probably needed some adjustment, so he had Paul Wolfe call NASCAR and request a caution. 56. Benjamin Lowe posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay Drivers you better start putting on a show right now or else I am going to come over there and beat the hell out of all of you. 57. murb posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The first 100-120 laps had some good racing I thought. But boy, has it ever fallen off... 58. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow an actual battle for the lead. 59. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The "Go" button is being pressed. 60. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nevermind, NASCAR's aero-package took care of that one... 61. Dave #38 Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this has become a nationwide series race....43 cars and only 3-4 with a legitamate shot at winning. 62. Benjamin Lowe posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh just turn Kyle Around Johnson 63. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When are they gonna talk about Stenhouse running 15th almost 300 laps into this thing only 2 laps down with screwy pit cycles? If Danica did that NASCAR might end the race on the spot and hand her the trophy. 64. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't worry about Kyle. While JJ is pressing the "Go" button, Kyle is pressing the "Meltdown Sequence Activation" button. 65. Bronco posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) KB just crossed 8000 laps in his Cup career. 66. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They should rename this race the "Kyle Busch 400", he's in his own zip code right now. 67. ch posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Today is a preview of the 2013 ROTY 'battle' with Stenhouse pulverizing Danica. 68. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like Kyle hit his own "Go" button in response to Jimmie catching him. Sorry, I don't see Kyle giving away this one. 69. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I honestly wouldn't be surprised if NASCAR did something ultra stupid next year and gave Danica the Rookie Of The Year Award award even though Stenhouse will beat her by a country mile in rookie points. 70. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Roush gave Kenseth another clunker! 71. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jack is gonna see to it that Kenseth finishes 12th in the standings. 72. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth hits the wall. Looks like a suspension piece in the rear of the car broke. Nice to know that team was prepared for the Chase. 73. murb posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So yeah, Kenseth's being sabotaged. 74. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Typical Roush rubbish, once Penske joins the Ford Family it's all over for these guys. 75. ch posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @69 why not go a little farther and have NASCAR 'convince' Stenhouse not to apply for ROTY? Then Danica can win by default (the only way she'll ever win anything in NASCAR)! 76. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JJ's pit crew may have won him the race, it'll depend on how good a restart he gets but once the 48 gets the lead he hardly ever looses it. 77. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now Kenseth crashes it. 78. JG24FanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth is the new Wile E. Coyote 79. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This season can't end fast enough for Matt. 80. Mr X posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why is Ford so loyal to Jack Roush? 81. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 14 years of loyalty to Jack and it has to end like this. Matt deserves better. 82. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jack Roush: The Jackass In The Hat 83. NicoRosbergFan posted: 09.30.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am going to stretch things even by my standards... Would anyone put it beyond NASCAR to rig it that Jimmie sets the all-time Dover win record set by Bobby Allison with him attendance, knowing that NASCAR hates Allison? 84. JG24FanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin also can tie Bobby Allison in carer Top 10's with his 446th 85. JG24FanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson Mode 86. Bronco posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its only race 3, but the only cars with a realistic championship hope anymore are the 48, 11, 2, 15 and possibly the 5 as well. 87. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR won't let Johnson win, just watch. 88. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like Gustafson adjusted Gordon's car to make it good on long runs. 89. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle passed Jimmie. What did I tell you? Kyle is NOT losing this race. Unless he runs out of gas. 90. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lead Change: Kyle Busch 91. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The "Go" button got turned off, the "Save Fuel" button was pressed in its place. 92. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne pits for a vibration, a dropped lugnut forces him to come back down pit road. 93. NicoRosbergFan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come on JG, blow out these con artists with your 20 years of experience... 94. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle is 7 laps short? Watch a caution come out shortly and save him. 95. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle is seven laps short on fuel, without a caution he'll definitely have to come in. 96. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In KyleBuschLand, driving fast saves fuel! 97. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon and Mark Martin apparently have enough fuel to make it to the end. Brad might have enough, Jimmie is saving fuel, Denny and Kyle aren't saving any. 98. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Now as long as Kreepelowski runs out, it will be a good race! 99. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is beginning to play out like Kansas in 2011 100. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Gordon is going to win. 101. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is NO FREAKING WAY his car is legitimate. NO WAY IN HELL. 102. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Still going! 103. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just give Keselowski the title now. 104. Mr X posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Wolfe must have Matt Borland's magic calculator. 105. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski is likely to win Talladega next week while Jimmie Johnson is almost guaranteed to crash. Like I said, just give him the title now. 106. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or his magic Dodge fuel cell. If you want to call it "magic." 107. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Put Brad or Tony Stewart in a fuel mileage situation and they are unbeatable. 108. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Amazing. Gordon finishes 2nd and he'll probably be further back in points than he was after Chicago. 109. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad! 110. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No way that car is legal. He has enough gas to do THREE burnouts? He probably could have run another 15 laps. Gordon and Martin would have run out before he did! 111. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kansas 2011 all over again, only this time Brad's a legit championship contender! 112. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If NASCAR doesn't tear this car down and do a thorough investigation, it's a sign of some real BS. Of course, they wanted him to win anyway, so they won't do it. There is absolutely no way any car could go that long without even backing off and still be able to do burnouts for 10 minutes given the current fuel cell. 113. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOUR BURNOUTS. And he still has enough gas to make it to victory lane? I'm just waiting for someone here to say that Keselowski's team did not cheat. 114. Baker posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YES! I love that Keselowski is going toe to toe with Jimmie Johnson and Denny is still right there too. Gotta keep your mind right though. Lets not let Jimmie's rep out duel you. Looks like my driver is still stinking it up so I'm pulling hard for Keselowski or Hamlin. 115. JG24FanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon becomes the first Modern driver to reach 150 Top 2 finishes Gordon matches Dale Earnhardt for the Modern Podium record with his 205th Mark Martin ties Bobby Allison for 2nd all-time in Top 10's with his 446th Brad Keselowski is Genius. 116. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go get it Brad. Go get that Cup. Go go go go go. 117. AutoRockinRacing94 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Less than 10 cars on the lead lap to finish (6 today), when was the last time that this happend in Cup. 118. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Remind me why Penske wanted to leave Dodge and join the Roush camp again? 119. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll say it again. I'm waiting for someone to refute me and tell me Keselowski is just that good and that they didn't cheat. 120. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If NASCAR doesn't announce a technical infraction on this car within the next 3 days, I'll NEVER watch another race, ever again. If they let them get by with this blatant cheating (and it IS cheating, it's outside the realm of mathematical possibility by far), it's proof that it's completely rigged. 121. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin was 2 laps down at one point and finished 3rd. 122. Baker posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, Just can it. Are you serious? I've been watch Hendrick cheat and get away with it for years and years. Do you complain about there crap? Keselowski is just out driving his JJ right now and Wolfe is out calling Knaus right now. Deal with it. 123. Benjamin Lowe posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm Tired of these fuel Mileage races 124. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only 6 cars finished on the lead lap. I believe this is the fewest lead lap cars at Dover since '04 when there were only 5. 125. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great job by the 18 team and Kyle. The fuel mileage deal kinda screwed up what would've been a really fun race between Kyle and Jimmie. 126. 10andJoe posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #120: Then goodbye, good riddance, and don't let the door hit you in the TV panel on your way out. Believe it or not, your favourite driver CAN lose, and your least favourite CAN win. If you can't accept that, then the sport doesn't need you. 127. Jim Davis posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "...and it IS cheating, it's outside the realm of mathematical possibility by far..." I'd be interested in seeing this math if you care to post it. 128. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I am going to be blatantly honest. There is a 50% chance right now that this season is going to be the last one I watch every race of. I hate the state the sport is in right now. I'm seriously thinking about just switching to watching Indy Cars and just saying "Screw it" to NASCAR. And I never thought I would say that. 129. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. finishes 12th in his first Cup race at Dover. He certainly held his own and didn't drive the car too hard at a track known for being treacherous on rookies. Nice finish for Bobby Labonte as well. 130. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's with all the cheating accusations against Brad, there have always been drivers who are better at conserving fuel than others(Harry Gant comes to mind)yet no one cried "cheater!" whenever they won. Brad and Paul Wolfe have clearly done their homework when it comes to stretching those important last gallons of gas to the finish when needed, it's not their faults the JGR toyotas came up short or the 48 team by their own admission sucks at saving fuel. And it's not like Special K's alone in the stretching your fuel department, Smoke and Clint Bowyer have proven to be experts at that as well. 131. Bronco posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although I like the Dodge Charger the most out of all the brands in Cup, I'm looking forward to having Dodge leave the series so we won't have to see any more of these contrived fuel mileage wins, or top 5s. Completely agree with whoever was questioning the legality of that car. Heartbreaking to see Kenseth, Biffle and Junior out of the championship so 3 races in despite being the most consistent regular season drivers. Biffle's team all of a sudden just started to suck, Kenseth was sabotaged by Roush, Junior looks to have been strangled by the 48 team and has gone back to looking like 2011 all over again. First top 5 for Carl Edwards since Fontana in March - 23 races ago. 7th consecutive race where KB has led the most laps but didn't win. Very good finish for Stenhouse, he whipped the #7 today. 132. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I just do not get how he could have enough gas to make it to the finish AND have enough to do multiple burnouts on every corner of the track and still not run out. I don't get it. If that makes me an idiot or a bad person for being suspicious...well fine. Then I am an idiot and a bad person and proud of it. I'm getting reminded of 2003 when Newman won 5-6 races in exactly this way. 133. Corndog posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski has been the best in the business at saving fuel for a while now. It shouldn't be a surprise that he would do something like this. 134. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle Busch has left without comment" Wow, that is a shocker. 135. 10andJoe posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >I'm looking forward to having Dodge leave the series so we won't have to see any more of these contrived fuel mileage wins Fuel mileage wins won't go away. Fans were screaming about them in 1996 and they'll be screaming about them until they switch to nuclear fuel cells (and even then they'll be screaming there was no way they made the unumpentium last so long). 136. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad was saving a lot early in that final run while Jimmie, Kyle, and Denny were using all their fuel right away. It's not Brad's fault that those other teams weren't smart enough to save (though Jimmie did a good job making it to the end, even if he barely made minimum speed). I'm not upset that Brad won because I like Brad, but I am upset as a Gordon fan that my guy finished 2nd and lost points. If there's anything NASCAR should look into, it's the points system, not whether Brad's car was legal, which they'll do anyways because the winning car always goes through post-race inspection. And Kyle Busch left without comment. What a shock! 137. New14 & 88Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Believe it or not, your favourite driver CAN lose, and your least favourite CAN win. If you can't accept that, then the sport doesn't need you." Exactly, there will be times when your favorite driver goes through a slump while someone you loath runs circles around them. My interest in racing survived the reigns of the Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson, the deaths of Dale and Adam Petty, retirements of Rusty DJ and Sterling Marlin and the rise of JGR as toyota's flagship team(I'm not a fan of none of their drivers). If seeing someone you don't like win often rustles your jimmies, than you shouldn't be watching racing. 138. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know I'm going to get flak for this well; but I've got to agree with Paul. NASCAR's new points system as he and some other people have said is horribly flawed. Again, I might get flak for this, but the Latford system was at least the most sensible points system NASCAR's actually used. Was it really THAT confusing to understand? 139. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it's excusable for Kyle to be so frustrated after he had by far the dominant car. He also might have assumed they wouldn't have wanted to interview him anyway given that he finished 4th at Chicago and didn't get interviewed there and was quite upset about it. 140. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Hendrick never cheated and got away with it, they were repeatedly penalized. And when Keselowski whined about their rear end setups, NASCAR changed the rule. If you ignore these facts and think NASCAR just wants Hendrick to win every race, it's not a qualified opinion. NASCAR is just trying to build up Keselowski as the next Earnhardt or whatever. Look at all the bandwagon fans he has just here. Johnson's a guy who goes out there and just drives the car, and people have never appreciate him as a driver even as he became one of the best in the history of the sport. Even if Hendrick WAS cheating, why could none of his teammates ever challenge him at all? He blows away even his own teammates! I'll have no problem never watching another race. The #2 team was obviously cheating and anyone who is not on the bandwagon can see that, there is no way he is the only driver out there who did not have even worry about the fuel and it was legitimate. Yes, Bowyer is good at fuel mileage, and he STILL pitted with like 20 to go. Kyle Busch didn't even bother trying to make it, Johnson had to run at half throttle for the last 10 laps. I don't have to do the math, because the crew chiefs already did it for us. There is NO way the #2 was legitimate when he wasn't saving fuel, made it the distance, and proceeded to do burnouts for 10 minutes, I don't care who the driver is or what team it is. All the other drivers who weren't saving very much pitted at the end of the caution period and had an advantage of several laps on him. Every driver who pitted on the same lap as the #2 had fuel mileage concerns except him. If you can't see that, then keep watching in blissful ignorance. My eyes are open now though. 141. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And of course I know NASCAR will never change this points system, or at least not for years to come because it produced the perfect scenario last year: a tie at the top of the points. 142. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Totally agree with you Schroeder51 about the points system. The Latford system was a decent balance between rewarding consistency and wins (The only argument on here I've seen against it is the 1996 points battle). Other than that it was a perfectly fine system. 143. 10andJoe posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >The #2 team was obviously cheating and anyone who is not on the bandwagon can see that. Since you're so good at spotting cheating, you should apply for the position of NASCAR's chief inspector. You know, I hate Jimmie Johnson. Well, not /hate/ hate, but I can't /stand/ him winning. Or even finishing in the top 5. But you know what? I don't go around saying that since they win OMG THEY HAD TO BE CHEATING. (Yes, Chad HAS been busted a few times, but I don't immediately assume bad faith.) If you have the attitude "my guy lost and I hate the winner, so OMG THE WINNER IS CHEATING", you're a fan NASCAR doesn't need. Schroeder51: I completely agree about the points system, 100%. 144. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Believe it or not, your favourite driver CAN lose, and your least favourite CAN win. If you can't accept that, then the sport doesn't need you." Exactly. I mean.. my favorite driver is Jamie McMurray, so we all know how that has panned out. And of course, my least favorite drivers are Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon (by a mile, too). Sometimes, Gordon and Johnson are gonna win and once every blue moon, Jamie will win. Do I get mad when Jeff or Jimmie win? Hell yes. Have I been ecstatic when Jamie has won? Hell yes. But regardless, your hated drivers are gonna win -- unless you hate J.J. Yeley, Dave Blaney, David Stremme, Michael McDowell, David Gilliland and you get the picture. If you hate someone like Gordon, Johnson, Keselowski, Dale Jr., Hamlin, Kyle Busch, Biffle, Harvick or Edwards (and so on), they're gonna win every once in a while. If a person can't come to peace with that, then NASCAR doesn't need those type of fans. That's just the way it is... and it's also the same thing with every sport. 145. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also.... Dear God, Thanks for not letting Jeff or Jimmie win. Much appreciated. Your friend, Tyler 146. Jordan posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) There are a lot of drivers in NASCAR I don't like, and they've all won a lot. This is the first time I've EVER said one was cheating (not counting NASCAR gift-wrapping Stewart a Talladega win, but that's not a case of a driver or team cheating). I don't go around whining when my favorite drivers lose, but I can spot BS when it happens. You're all free to have your own opinions of course, but this result is beyond just being fishy. 147. cjs3872 posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it appears that Kyle Busch has left the track AGAIN without comment. When is Joe Gibbs going to say enough is enough. Everyone else that suffered the same disappointment of having to pit or save fuel stuck around long enough to be interviewied, but he can't? What's wrong with that picture? And Gibbs is talking about extended his contract? He should cut bait with this arrogant jerk and put someone in that #18 car that actually has some respect for the sport, because it's obvious that Kyle never has and never will. On another front, I've said time and time again that Alan Gustafson's a terrible race strategist, but he stole a second place finish for his driver with his decision to stop on the last caution flag. He wasn't going to finish any higher than about seventh or eighth, but that decision to stop put him in position to not have to wory about fuel, and he got second out of it. Kasey Kahne was in the same position, and probably would have won the race, except his team came apparently up short by not tightening the right front tire on his pit stop. Then when he pitted under green, they made the same mistake again, which brought him into the pits yet gain, and he finished three laps behind in 15th position. It's now a three-way battle for the championship between Brad Keselowski, Denny Hamlin, and Jimmie Johnson. And although he's moved up in the standings, the fact that Jeff Gordon finished second and third in the past two races and has actually lost ground to the leaders shows again how inadequate the current points system is. Granted, he would have lost ground today anyway, but the fact that he's finished second and third and lost ground to the leaders, and hasn't made up much on the others except for Matt Kenseth shows how bad the current points system is, as it doesn't reward running up front. And boy, did I call that when I referred to what's happening to Matt Kenseth the last month as sabotage. Granted what happened to him today can happen to anyone at Dover, because of the track surface, but this is the thrid time that something's happened to his car that you just don't ordinarily see happen. And now, the rear suspension breaks at Dover. And just about all this has happened since Kenseth announced his move to Joe Gibbs' team next year. now he had announced that he was going to leave Roush much earlier, but ever since he announced where he's going, all this has happened to him. t's obvious that Roush has sabotaged Kenseth's season, but Greg Biffle's is not getting any better, other than the fact that he finished the race. It seems that Roush has already put up the white flag for the season, and is more intent on getting Carl Edwards to victory lane. And this race was somewhat a blast from the past, with only six cars finishing on the lead lap, only the top ten finishing even one lap behind, and the 12th place finisher being three laps behind. That's the way it used to be. Certainly pit stops and the timing of the first caution had a lot to do with this, but consider that if there's no free pass rule, only three cars (2, 24, 48) end up finishing on the lead lap today. 148. Anonymous posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jordan, Your claim about Hendrick not getting away with cheating is off. The had been accusations of Hendrick using traction control in the past including 1998 and in the early 2000's. Jack Roush even claimed the 24 tire was soaking tires back in 1998. The 48 team did something at Talladega last fall by the statement Chad made and NASCAR wasn't please. It also seemed like the 48 cheated last year at the plate races by the statement on claiming they didn't do anything different for this year's Daytona 500 compare to this year's plate races. That meant the 48 team was getting away with something last year. Also just because your favorite lost, that doesn't right away mean the winner is cheating. You need to grew up by the fact NASCAR is playing favorites with Brad and the fact you to grow up by claiming every time Brad wins, the 2 team cheats. NASCAR has a history of not able to find cheated up race cars without playing favorites and that means you need to understand that to. 149. cjs3872 posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, another case of the Latford point system not always being fair was 1985, when Bill Elliott won 11 races, but ended up losing the title to Darrell Waltrip at the end. Waltrip has even said that he didn't necessarily deserve that title, but that system usually ended up getting it overall. The reason they changed it was because the fans were so confused about how points were awarded. So they "dumbed it down" for the fans, but what it's really done is to make the racing more conservative, because of how much more a bad finish is penalized. So they race conservatively all day, because it doesn't really matter what position you're going for, because it's only worth one more point, making third place no more important than 33rd place. 150. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 2 team DID NOT cheat. 151. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, Yeah, I forgot about that one. But for the most part it worked fine. 152. 10andJoe posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >I can spot BS when it happens And I can spot the same old song when it happens. "NASCAR is rigging things so that Earnhardt can win." "NASCAR is rigging things so that Gordon can win." "NASCAR is rigging things so that Johnson can win." "NASCAR is rigging things so that Keselowski can win." All this has happened before, and all this shall happen again. But I'm done with this discussion. You know what they say about what happens when you wrestle with a skunk. 153. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Again, I might get flak for this, but the Latford system was at least the most sensible points system NASCAR's actually used. Was it really THAT confusing to understand?" Because the people in the peanut gallery can't count, so they changed it. 154. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also now on to manufactered pack racing, cuz the fans love things being manufactered for them. 155. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh wait, that's right, I forgot. NASCAR's average casual fan has an IQ below average. I see why they changed it now. It all makes sense. 156. Benjamin Lowe posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At Posts 154 & 155 and it is because of those low IQ fans that NASCAR doesn't get a lot of respect from most people 157. b4il3y posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder.. Once again ...if NASCAR wanted to rig races...Dale Jr. would have 5 championships. Maybe Brad and Paul Wolfe work well together? Maybe Brad has talent? Maybe Roger is happy that someone who is actually level headed and smart is driving his car now instead of a raving maniac? 158. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of manufacturers, Dodge now has more wins this season (5) than Ford (4). What makes this most impressive is that there are only two Dodge cars in Cup, with all five wins coming from one driver, compared to Ford which has five competitive cars (6-7 when the #21 and/or #6 race) and another four full-time teams to provide information. I still think it's a mistake for Penske to leave Dodge and join the Roush camp next year because of how inconsistent the Fords have been this season, especially since Kenseth revealed he was leaving (smartest move of his career). 159. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The worst thing for Ford is that, all of a sudden, the Fords as a whole are way off the pace right now. Matt Kenseth is probably trying to get Joe Gibbs to run a fourth car for him right now. 160. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Schroeder.. Once again ...if NASCAR wanted to rig races...Dale Jr. would have 5 championships. Maybe Brad and Paul Wolfe work well together? Maybe Brad has talent? Maybe Roger is happy that someone who is actually level headed and smart is driving his car now instead of a raving maniac?" There is something you need to know, NASCAR fans have a hard time giving credit were credit is do. They have to come up with some way to discredit success, instead of just manning up and giving credit. Schreoder, your a good guy, this isn't a shot at you, it is the rest of the peanut gallery. 161. Benjamin Lowe posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I could compare the Busch Brothers to anyone it would be Shawn Michaels before he found religion and changed his ways. 162. Willy T. Ribbs posted: 09.30.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All i hear is a bunch of whining. Brad just balled out today, deal with it 163. DaleSrFanForever posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its not like it is a travesty Brad won. He ran 4th for the entire second half of the race, and after his jack broke on that green flag stop, he raced Kyle and put distance on him to stay on the lead lap. Should it have been Jimmie or Kyle on pure speed? Yeah, but how often does the fastest car actually win? The 4th best car winning is not a horrible thing for the sport. Besides, by my count, that is only the second time in 9 wins he won the race because the cas in front of him pitted and he didn't have to make a stop. 164. Anonymous posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh my goodness, are you kidding me?! Everyone needs to stop complaining. If you dont like it watch baseball or football. I dont care if you wanna watch something else but I love NASCAR and will always be a fan. These post boards should be to discuss and analyze the race not give your negative opinions and conspiracy theories. It gets old week after week the same people post the same negative rubbish. Go away please and stop watching NASCAR then. Im so tired of it. Anyway great run for Gordon. He had a fifth or sixth place car and came home second. Man I wish he didn't have his troubles at Chicago. 165. BON GORDON posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That post above was me. 166. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The end of this race made me sick because I thought this was going to be the day that Kyle and the 18 team would put it all together. I was actually most upset about the race coming down to fuel mileage after it appeared we would have a Jimmie-Kyle duel than the fact that Kyle lost a race that he should've won easily. 167. Greg in Florida posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica can not run for ROTY in 2013. She will run 10 races this year and unless they changed the rules in the last couple of years, A driver can run no more then 7 the pervious year to be eligable. 168. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nope, she's still eligible because she's not running for Cup points. They changed the rules so that if you aren't running for points in one series, you can still run for Rookie of the Year in future years even if you make more than 7 starts. 169. Jim Davis posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't have to do the math, because the crew chiefs already did it for us." Refresh my memory. Which crew chief claimed that the 2 car must have been cheating? 170. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's why Trevor Bayne is still eligible for R.O.T.Y should he ever get an opportunity to do so. 171. Jim Davis posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Latford system was a decent balance between rewarding consistency and wins." The Latford system often resulted in the first and second place cars being awarded the same number of points. Rusty Wallace once complained that over a three race stretch where he won all three races he gained a total of 10 points on Dale Earnhardt (equivalent to 2 points today). 172. Baker posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle pack your bags. Championship is over under my format that reward finishing Top 3-5 more than hurting you for bad runs. Under that format Ryan Newman and Kyle Busch are still in it after not making the field in real life. 1. Brad Keselowski 2181 2. Jimmie Johnson 2160 -21 3. Denny Hamlin 2129 -52 4. Kasey Kahne 2098 -83 5. Clint Bowyer 2093 -88 6. Tony Stewart 2088 -93 7. Kyle Busch 2066 -115 8. Dale Junior 2054 -127 9. Ryan Newman 2050 -131 Top 3 cars are safe from elimination next week at Talladega. Everyone else can be eliminated if the cards fall against them. The heat, however, is mostly on Kyle Busch, Dale Junior and Ryan Newman. 173. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes Jim Davis it was that way at first, but the way it was in 2010, with 185 points for winning and 170 for second, was fine. Therefore the winner got at least 10 more points than the 2nd place driver. 174. Jim Davis posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "...but I am upset as a Gordon fan that my guy finished 2nd and lost points. If there's anything NASCAR should look into, it's the points system,..." Before today's race Keselowski led Gordon by 44 points. After winning the race today, with Gordon coming in second, he stretched it out to 48 points. I'm sorry, but I fail to see the injustice here. 175. Jim Davis posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes Jim Davis it was that way at first..." That's the way it was for about 35 years. 176. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am aware of that. I was more talking about the way it was when it was scrapped. 177. cjs3872 posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #171, if there was one problem with the Latford system, that was it, and it was eventually changed to prevent that. But while each position meant something, racing among the front runners meant more in that system because the top finishing positions were weighted more than tose further back in the field. Under the current system, making a pass for second place means no more than passing for 32nd place, while such a risk can be disastrous. Again, Jeff Gordon in the chase makes this point clearer than anything else. In the two races after his Chicago disaster, he has finised third and second, yet has gained no points at all, and even more alarming, has only moved up from 12th to 10th, passing only the Roush cars in the points. Trust me, he might not be closer to the front using a more weighted system, but with his two top three finishes, he wouldn't be 10th out of 12 either, and that makes my point more than anything else about the fact that the top positions needs to be weighted more than further down. As far as I know, NASCAR is the only major league in racing that uses such an unfair system asfar as distributing points goes. And I don't know what's more amazing, the fact that Jeff Gordon has finished in the top three in five of the last six races after struggling for so long this season, or the fact that none of those top three finishes are wins. He still doesn't lead very much, and that's probably what's keeping him from winning. They need to be more aggressive on their short run setup and Gordon has always needed to be more aggressve on restarts, but sooner or later, these top finishes have to result in wins, don't they? 178. joey2448 posted: 09.30.2012 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Echoing the earlier comments, it does seem kinda unfair to me (or I'm just frustrated) that Jeff Gordon has finished 3rd and 2nd the last two races but hasn't gained anything, save for two spots in the standings. And the points system used to "dumb it down" for fans comments are true. When NASCAR first introduced the new points system, that was my first thought. Why fix something that isn't broken? Was the Latford system really THAT confusing? As far the complaining about the legitimacy of Brad's win, I think that team is just that much cleverer than the other teams. How many times has Brad figured something new out to win the race? 2011 night race at Bristol with the pit road scoring lines? This year at Talladega with his move in turn three on the final lap to break up the tandem with Kyle Busch? There's more, I just can't think of them right now. 179. jabber1990 posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) who is going to be on Kenseths car next year? and which car is Stenhouse taking over next year? the 17 or the 6? who's his sponsor? 180. 18fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The sponsors on Stenhouse's car next year will all be sponsors from the #17 team this year. 181. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jim Davis, you missed my point entirely. I was making two different points: One about how Gordon has lost points over the past two races despite two top 3 finishes, and the other how the points system doesn't reward for great finishes unless it's a win. Using the current points system while adjusting it similar to the Latford system (3 points from 1st to 6th, 2 points from 6th to 11th, 1 point from 11th to 43rd), Gordon would have gained six points on Brad over the last two races. But instead he actually lost one point to Brad over the last two races because there's no incentive to finishing high under the current points system (unless you finish 1st). The difference between 3rd and 2nd is the same between 33rd and 32: 1 point. You can finish 2nd and lead the most laps and still lose 3 points to the winner, the equivalent of 15 points under the Latford system. Even under the '07-'10 points system, under that scenario, the leader would only gain 10 points over 2nd place. And also, I wasn't saying that they should change the points system because my favorite driver lost ground. I realize that the 2nd place driver doesn't score as much as the winner, believe it or not; it's been that way since '04 when they gave the winner an extra 5 points to prevent a tie in race points with 2nd place. I was just saying as a fan, I was upset that my driver lost ground on the points leader, a natural emotion as a fan of a driver. But being realistic, I wouldn't change it so that my driver gets more points than the winner. All I was saying over several posts (though I didn't get very thorough in the post you quoted) was that there should be an added incentive in finishing higher in the race. As I said, under the Latford system, Gordon would have gained six points on Brad over the past two races (five points under the '04 format, four points under the '07 format). But instead, under this elementary level points system given because so many fans were too stupid to count by 3, 4, and 5, he lost one point to Brad despite having the better average finish in the past two races (Gordon: 2.5, Brad: 3.5). That's the only point I was trying to make. The thing I said about Gordon losing points today was only a piece of the point I was making. 182. Jim Davis posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "...if there was one problem with the Latford system, that was it..." Actually, there was another problem, just as serious. 43rd position was awarded 37 points which led to anomalies like "All Jones has to do is start the race at Richmond and he's locked into the chase!" But to address your larger point, I do agree that it would be better if the higher positions were weighted more heavily. However, I cannot agree that the current points system is the reason behind the current trend of more conservative driving. I hate to keep harping on this point but the root reason is something that NASCAR is powerless to do anything about - a poor economy. Even the strongest teams are affected and destroyed race cars cannot be replaced as casually as they were even just a few years ago. There is much more emphasis on taking care of the car these days. Not much NASCAR can do about that. 183. Dave #38 Fan posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) roush continues rewarding an entire career of loyalty from kenseth by pissing all over him. and jabber1990, stenhouse will be in the #17 with best buy, zest, fith third bank, and possibly cargill sponsoring him next year. 184. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #182-Actually, 43rd place earned you 34 points. 42nd would give you 37. Just thought I'd point that out. 185. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only thing I didn't understand about the Latford system was why 43rd place got 34 points. I always thought that since there's a 3-point difference between 43rd and 42nd, that 43rd place should be rewarded three points. Other than the numbering of the points, I never had any complaints about that system. And I've stated that I would adjust the current points system so that there'd be 3 points between 1st and 6th, 2 points between 6th and 11th, and 1 point between 11th and 43rd. What I would also do is make it so that all the cars that finish worse than 25th or 30th would each get 1 point, similar to Formula One in which only the top 10 finishers get points. I made it one point because of the start-and-park cars, owner's points, and the top 35 rule situations. This would make it so that start-and-park teams don't have to do what Scott Riggs did yesterday and pull the car into the garage right away, then come back out once all the other start-and-park cars have pulled in, and it would add more incentive to those battling for a top 25 or 30 finish because they would be the final driver receiving points. But more importantly, it would provide a mulligan for top teams to have suffer a bad finish or DNF and not be too deep into the cellar (or risk being a moving chicane in hopes of gaining a few positions). 186. Eric posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is my take on the 12 chase drivers: Matt Kenseth - Jack sabotaged Matt this chase. Talladega isn't going to help him any. Greg Biffle - He has been disappointing during this chase. He needs the top drivers in the points standing to be in trouble at Talladega for any chance. Jeff Gordon - This points system made him worse off than he should be. He will be back in this if trouble happens to the people ahead of him at Talladega. Kevin Harvick - He is running like I predicated. I don't think a win at Talladega would do much with him based on how he has struggled this year. Truex - He is doing as well as I expected. He really doesn't even have a chance to win the chase at this point. Dale Jr. - He is proving what I thought. He cooled down after Michigan. If he wins at Talladega, he has a chance to gain ground depending what people in the chase will be in the "big one". Kasey Kahne - his team screwed up his chased in this race. Talladega is not one of his better tracks despite him having 2 straight top top 10's there. Tony Stewart - Team was better in the chase last year. Talladega is a track he's good at and could gain some ground. Clint Bowyer - He has been very solid like I figured he would. Talladega is where could make up ground on the people ahead of him. Clint is very good at Talladega. Denny Hamlin - if fuel wasn't a problem for 2 out of the 3 races, he would have been very close to Brad. Talladega is an iffy track for him. He can gain on Jimmie Johnson there. Jimmie Johnson - great chase so far. Talladega is an iffy track for him. While he has better luck in the fall here, it is not one of his best tracks. Brad- Great chase so far. That teams finds a way to win. Talladega is very good track for him with him having 5 top 10's in 7 starts there including 2 wins. Brad could open his lead here. 187. 10andJoe posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >The only thing I didn't understand about the Latford system was why 43rd place got 34 points. I always thought that since there's a 3-point difference between 43rd and 42nd, that 43rd place should be rewarded three points. Other than the numbering of the points, I never had any complaints about that system. The Latford system started at the top and worked its way down. Also, 43 cars is NOT the maximum. There were races with 44 and 45 cars in the mid 1990s - the Winston West combination races. (Pretty sure 45 was the theoretical maximum after they stopped running 60+ cars.) 188. 10andJoe posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #24 sponsor: Drive to End Hunger / Chase AARP Visa 189. Schroeder51 posted: 09.30.2012 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seeing Jack screw over Matt because he is leaving at the end of the year makes me sad. I still stand by my "Jack Roush: Jackass In The Hat" comment I made. It really looks like he's doing everything he can to make sure Kenseth finishes last in the Chase. I'd laugh if Matt won the championship next year with Gibbs and ended up sticking it to Roush. Would be funny as hell. 190. Allen posted: 09.30.2012 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Every race is a fuel mileage race. Derps. Go Brad! Stump them all! 191. Cooper posted: 09.30.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just want to say that it feels good to be on the positive side of conspiracy theories. Brad has a chance to win this thing. If he does it would be an incredible feat and it would likely cause the world to end. 192. ch posted: 09.30.2012 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 91 Sponsor: Humphrey Smith Racing 193. David posted: 09.30.2012 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) An excerpt from an article by the Associated Press (posted on ESPN.com) from July 1st, 2004. "Even from his perch atop the points standings, Jimmie Johnson hasn't wavered in his dislike for NASCAR's new championship system. Johnson heads into the Pepsi 400 on Saturday night at Daytona International Speedway with a 27-point lead over Dale Earnhardt Jr., an advantage that doesn't mean as much as it used to. Under NASCAR's new formula, all drivers in the top 10 in the standings and anyone within 400-points of the leader will start over after the 26th race of the year. Those drivers will then compete in a 10-race shootout to crown the champion. "I don't feel it really represents what a true champion needs to do in the course of a year,'' Johnson said. "Our sport is founded on long races and a long season. I think our point system should reflect that.'' Johnson believes NASCAR created the new system to add a bit of drama to what had become ho-hum points races over the final stretch of the season. "It has a lot of entertainment value, but when you're a competitor looking to find an advantage and working the sport year 'round, I don't think this point system really reflects what we have to do week in and week out,'' he said." You think maybe he changed his tune a few years later? By the way, there was a picture, but it was of Junior Johnson!! 194. Paul posted: 09.30.2012 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nothing is official yet, but as a lot of people believe to be true, J.D. Gibbs said that the plan for JGR's Nationwide team in 2013 is for Elliott Sadler and Brian Vickers to join the team full-time, sponsored by OneMain Financial and Dollar General, respectively. He also said that a 3rd car will be split between Cup drivers Denny Hamlin and Matt Kenseth, and development drivers Drew Herring and Darrell Wallace, Jr. No mention of Ryan Truex or Michael McDowell in JGR's 2013 plans. 195. ch posted: 10.01.2012 - 7:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @194). On Raceday a few weeks ago, Kyle Petty said that Darrell Wallce Jr. Would drive a full time Gibbs car next year in nationwide. I would rather Vickers full time though with Wallace running a part time schedule. 196. Dave#38Fan posted: 10.01.2012 - 7:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i figured that paul. mcdowell and truex can soon be in the group of joe gibbs development drivers that they screwed over in favor of running their cup drivers in nns, joining marc davis, matt dibenedetto, and brad coleman. 197. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 11:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marcos Ambrose says he's close to getting a deal done with RPM for 2013, and some there's a great possibility that Aric Almirola will come back as well. Phoenix Racing has expressed interest in putting Regan Smith, A.J. Allmendinger, and David Reutimann in the #51 for the final six races. Time Warner will sponsor Kasey Kahne at Charlotte in a few weeks. It will be the first time ever that Time Warner serves as the primary sponsor of a Sprint Cup car. They will be Kahne's primary sponsor for four races over each of the next three seasons as well. Ryan Blaney will return to the BKR #29 at Talladega. 198. John Royal posted: 10.01.2012 - 11:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, it is not the points system or the tracks to blame. It is simply the front clip aerodynamics of the cars. Just grind 5 inches off of the front lip and you get great racing. And yes, Gordon is getting screwed by the points system. Hate to see that. And I'd love to see Dodge winning a bitter championship. 199. Daniel posted: 10.01.2012 - 11:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chase: top 4 seperated by 25 points. No chase: top 4 seperated by 9 points. Great job France. In using fastest 43: #19 Mike Bliss & #30 David Stremme Out using fastest 43: #32 T.J. Bell & #38 David Gilliland 200. cjs3872 posted: 10.01.2012 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talking about the points, I'd wonder what the points would look like if you used my weighted system to set the pre-Chicago points, then used my point system, which would leave the points for 11th-43rd as they currently are, and from the 33 points for 11th, bump it up two points per position through sixth (35 for 10th, 37 for ninth, 39 for eighth, 41 for seventh, and 43 for sixth), then three points per position through second (46 for fifth, 49 for fourth, 52 for third, and 55 for second), and the five more point for the win (60 for winning), while leaving bonus points the same (but more insignificant). Now for those that don't remember, here are the pre-Chicago points, using my weighted system combining points poisition and wins: 1. Greg Biffle 2036 (points leader, 2 wins) 2. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 2030 (2nd in points, 1 win) 3. Jimmie Johnson 2030 (4th in points, 3 wins) 4. Matt Kenseth 2027 (3rd in points, 1 win) 5. Brad Keselowski 2027 (5th in points, 3 wins) 6. Denny Hamlin 2021 (8th in points, 4 wins) 7. Clint Bowyer 2018 (7th in points, 2 wins) 8. Martin Truex, Jr. 2015 (6th in points, no wins) 9. Tony Stewart 2012 (9th in points, 3 wins) 10. Kevin Harvick 2006 (10th in points, no wins) 11. Kasey Kahne 2000 (2 wins banked) 12. Jeff Gordon 2000 (1 win banked) Now I wonder what the standings would look like right now among these 12 using the points system described above, which is weighted toward good finishes, when you add that to the pre-Chicago standings I just reposted. Certainly, some of the mathemticians that post here (and there are some, believe me) might be able to answer that for me. And if you want, you can post the standings in the comments page after each race and compare them to the real standings, and I guarantee you, they'll look a bit dfferent, to say the least. And by the way, why should anyone else be surprised at Dale, Jr. suddenly not running as well. I predicted this would happen to him, because Chad Knaus is controlling the info sharing over there, and as soon as the chase was about to begin, that sharing stopped, just as it did when the #24 team shared that building with the #48 team. I also wonder if those trick setups had something to do with Dale, Jr.'s success, as well as the fact that they've been reduced in effectiveness has something to do with Jeff Gordon's sudden return to the front of the field (5 top 3s in 6 races when he hadn't sniffed the top 3 all year prior to that), because I don't think either is a co-incidence. 201. David posted: 10.01.2012 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Certainly, some of the mathematicians that post here (and there are some, believe me) might be able to answer that for me." (in true Gomer Pyle form) Aww, heck. 202. David posted: 10.01.2012 - 1:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regarding your points system cjs, I still have the spreadsheet for that (I believe), so I could tell you your standings as soon as I update it. 203. David posted: 10.01.2012 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I do want to ask you: Your format has the exact same bonus points as the actual system (3 for winning, 1 for a lap led, 1 for most laps led)? Because that means a maximum of 65 points for winning, and that's how I have been calculating it. 204. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Hendrick wants all four of his teams to be running competitively every week, he needs to put the #24 and #88 teams in one shop and the #5 and #48 teams in another shop. The respective crew chiefs for the #5 and #48 teams (Kenny Francis and Chad Knaus) are well-known for their lack of information sharing with their teammates, while the crew chiefs for the #24 and #88 teams (Alan Gustafson and Steve Letarte, respectively) seem more likely to share information with each other. Unless I'm mistaken, the #88 team used to be the #24 team before a crew chief/team swap prior to the 2011 season, so already there's an element there that those two teams have in common and are more likely to share information with each other because of that connection, not to mention that the crew chiefs of those teams seem more open to sharing information than the other two. As for the #5 and #48 teams, since their crew chiefs don't share information anyways, there would be little to no change within those organizations because they would be sharing a shop with another team that doesn't share information. The only thing that might change is that Kasey Kahne wouldn't be around Jeff Gordon quite as much anymore. I've noticed that Kasey has been around Jeff a lot this year taking in as much knowledge as he can, but he could just as easily get information from Jimmie Johnson as well, though I feel that Jimmie wouldn't be quite as open to sharing information with Kasey as Jeff would because, going back to the crew chief situation, he might not be allowed to do so Another thing that could benefit from the #24 and #88 teams sharing a shop is that it could strengthen the relationship between those two teams, especially the drivers of those teams. With incidents like Junior cutting Jeff's tire at Bristol, and the radio transmission going on at Michigan recently where it appeared that the two drivers weren't getting along, I feel like putting them together would end the dissension between the two teams, or at least the two drivers. Both drivers and crew chiefs are the forgiving types that could make amends with the other side if they have to, while Knaus and Francis come off as people who burn their bridges with someone once an incident happens. 205. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Pat Tryson has joined BK Racing to be the crew chief of the #93 team and driver Travis Kvapil. Tryson had been David Gilliland's crew chief up until this point, having a best finish of 13th at Talladega (ironically one week before the 2nd Talladega race). 206. startandparkfan posted: 10.01.2012 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not used to bad races at dover... hope talledega is better. 207. Biscuits In A Red Bull posted: 10.01.2012 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Kenseth had a chance coming into the Chase... 208. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.01.2012 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey Cooper, 2010 sure seems like a long time ago, doesn't it? 209. cjs3872 posted: 10.01.2012 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, my system does not have the same bonus for winning as the current system. My system has a five point boost for winning over finishing second (60-55) instead of three, but you are right, the bonus points are the same. Remember that NASCAR's total includes an automatic bonus point for the winner, because to win, you have to lead at least one lap, and NASCAR already has a bonus for that, so that's figured into their "bonus" for winning. That bonus is not figured into my system. A driver, using my system, can get up to 62 points, and depending on circumstances, could gain as many as seven points on the second-place finisher if he leads the most laps and the second place finisher never leads the race officially, but can gain no less than four, which is still one more than the stock points between any other two consecutive positions in the finishing order, which is why I made it five between first and second, not counting the automatic one points bonus for leading. And Paul, you forget about one thing in your assessment on which Hendrick teams should be paried together, and that is whether Dale, Jr. and Jeff Gordon could co-exist in the same building, given the long-time rivalry between Gordon and the Earnhardt family. Otherwise, you might be spot on. As it is now, I think the teams are good as is, or as good as Hendrick can make it. And remember that one major reason for the race at Dover not being as competitve as usual had to do with the timing of that first caution flag levaing just seven cars on the lead lap, one of which was Bobby Labonte's car, which we all know is not competitve. And since there were few cautions after that, and the timing of those cautions coming in such a way that taking the wave-around was not a viable option, that was a big reason why the race at Dover was not as competitve as usual, and really there's nothing that could have been done to prevent that. That, plus the fuel mileage finish was why you had just six cars on the lead lap, just four one lap down and only one that was even two laps down. As I mentioned, that made this race a flashback to the way it used to be about 20 years ago, with drivers as high as 12th being three laps behind the winner. 210. David posted: 10.01.2012 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In this exact race 20 years ago (1992 Peak AntiFreeze 500), 3 cars were on the lead lap (Ricky Rudd, Bill Elliott, and Kyle Petty), and the 12th place finisher (Dale Jarrett) was 10 laps down. 211. Daniel posted: 10.01.2012 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talladega entry list: -David Reutimann in the #10 -Trevor Bayne in the #21 -Robert Richardson Jr. in the #23 -Terry Labonte in the #32 -Dave Blaney in the #36 -J.J. Yeley in the #37 -Michael Waltrip in the #55 -Timmy Hill in the #97 212. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Timmy Hill makes the race, there's a good chance that Joe Nemechek may attempt to run the distance, especially since there's no Nationwide race this weekend and all of his fund are for the Cup race. Both Dave Blaney and David Reutimann are fully sponsored (Golden Corral and TMone 6) this week, so J.J. Yeley will serve as the start-and-park should he make the race. I thought having the #6 car at Talladega would benefit Roush because there would be one more competitive Ford at a type of track at which Ford has been dominant this season, but Trevor Bayne could still provide great drafting for his Roush teammates, unless of course Kenseth has another part failure, which is very possible because a number of drivers were complaining that their temperatures were getting too high in the spring (except of course for the Fords with that cooling system, especially those that were out front, such as Kenseth himself). Also, some teams in the past have tried making the cars lighter by drilling holes in the brake pedal and taking about a pound of weight out of the car, as they consider the brakes not as important at restrictor plate tracks. If you remember, Hank Parker, Jr. had that same problem in the Busch Series race at Talladega in '02. He used up his brakes slowing down to avoid the "Big One", then couldn't get the car slowed down on pit road because the brake pedal broke, costing him a top 5 finish (though he still finished 10th because of how many cars were out of the race or many laps down). I wouldn't put it past Roush to do the same thing to Kenseth this weekend, thinking it would "give him a speed advantage just in case his car isn't already the class of the field". 213. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, luckily for me, 2010 was my off year as a NASCAR viewer as I only watched the first two races that season (thankfully, memories of Jamie McMurray winning the Daytona 500 are still vivid for me). Had I watched the full season, I would have been just miserable seeing my two favorite drivers, Jeff Gordon and Brad Keselowski, have off-years (seriously Brad, what the hell? I guess the stench of David Stremme hadn't quite left that #12 car), and the championship contenders in the Chase were Jimmie Johnson, Kevin Harvick, and Denny Hamlin. I've never been a JJ fan, but thankfully he won the title instead of one of those two prima donnas. Oh, and Carl revealed to the world his true colors, yet nothing happened to him because he smiles a lot and Aflac is partners with NASCAR (remember kids, money makes all your problems go away). cjs, I don't think the Gordon-Earnhardt rivalry is as bad as some people make it out to be. I would put that rivalry in the same category as the Petty-Pearson rivalry as both drivers were fierce competitors on the track, but maintained a great level of respect off the track. Plus, who can forget Jeff's memorable '95 championship toast by drinking milk instead of champagne, "honoring" the Intimidator's wishes? And also, don't you think that pairing the #48 and #88 teams is a bad thing? You've said before that information sharing between the #48 and #24 teams stopped after Gordon passed Johnson for the win at Talladega in the fall of '07 when Steve Letarte was Gordon's crew chief. Now that Letarte is Junior's crew chief, don't you think that Knaus may still have it out for Letarte and that having them share a race shop is only bad for the #88 team? That's why I would put the #24 and #88 teams together and the #5 and #48 teams together because there's repairable damage between the #24 and #88 teams, while there's no wanted relationship within the #5 and #48 camps. 214. 10andJoe posted: 10.01.2012 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >And remember that one major reason for the race at Dover not being as competitve as usual had to do with the timing of that first caution flag levaing just seven cars on the lead lap, one of which was Bobby Labonte's car ...and also, I noticed, appeared to pit /again/ less than 20 laps later. Why? Nothing was ever said about it, but suddenly the 47 was two laps down... 215. cjs3872 posted: 10.01.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well David, if there had been no free pass, only three cars would have finished on the lead lap in this race, because three of the six cars that finished on the lead lap (Martin, Edwards, and Truex) got the free pass on one occasion. And when I said about 20 years ago, I wasn't referring to just Dover, but quite a number of races on the tougher tracks, and I wasn't referring to 1992 exactly, but somewhere around 20 years ago. For instance, in this race in 1991, Dale Earnhardt was 45 laps behind, but still finished in 11th place, though that was mostly due to a large wreck that wiped out many contenders that occurred while Earnhardt was in the garage area, I believe. 216. cjs3872 posted: 10.01.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually 10andJoe, they did mention that Labonte was off-sync on pit stops due to an early pit stop he had to make before the first period of mass pitting started. when the caution came out, he was one lap behind, but when everyone else pitted, he took a wave-around and got back on the same lap, but that eventually caught up with him. Even so, he finished 14th, matching his best finish of the season, despite being three laps behind. And I do want to mention that Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. did exactly what he should have done in this race, which was to mind his own business and not race very hard, at least by his own standards. And that, plus the strange way the race went down, resulted in a 12th place finish, despite also being three laps behind at the finish. 217. David posted: 10.01.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know that cjs, I was just stating the facts for reference. 218. Talon64 posted: 10.01.2012 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Although I like the Dodge Charger the most out of all the brands in Cup, I'm looking forward to having Dodge leave the series so we won't have to see any more of these contrived fuel mileage wins, or top 5s. Completely agree with whoever was questioning the legality of that car." Were you questioning the legality of the #99 when they won at Homestead back in 2008, with fuel mileage that his Roush teammates couldn't even touch? Of course not, because it was pretty clear that the driver was making a big difference. Just like with Keselowski, except Dodge does have a bit of a fuel mileage advantage so the combination of the two results in Keselowski making the race and having plenty of fuel for his burnouts! Man, so much butthurt... 219. Anonymous posted: 10.01.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm just wondering, do any of you think Dale Jr will ever win again or not? I know he won this year but i'm afraid he will never win again. Just wanted to know. 220. David posted: 10.01.2012 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #219: I think he will, as long as he can continue to run up front like he has all year in years to come. I predict he will end his career with around 25 wins. 221. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it all depends on how motivated he is to win. He was motivated to win from '98 to '00 when he had his dad in his ear, then from '01 to '04 and '06 when he had his uncle in his ear and he had superior cars. After '06, it's hard to get a good read on where Junior's head is. He was motivated in the first part of '08 when he first joined HMS, winning his very first race with the team, but then fell into a slump for the next 2.5 years largely due to him being content with riding around while his teammates were running up front, only interrupted by his Nationwide win at Daytona in 2010. He's been more motivated the past two years than he was the previous 2.5 years, but he's still not as focused on being the top driver in the sport, which he has all the potential at becoming. The regular season showed us what he can do when he's on his game, winning at Michigan and entering the Chase 2nd in points come to mind, but so far he's just been invisible during the Chase. If not for Gordon's stuck throttle at Chicago and Kasey's loose wheel at Dover, all three of his teammates would have three top fives in the three Chase races to his one top ten. Without the Chase, he had a shot at winning the title by being "Mr. Consistent", but thanks to the points reset, he'll be lucky to finish top five in points. So basically, he has all the tools and resources to win again in the Cup Series. Whether he chooses to use those said tools and resources is all up to him. Judging by his performance over the last few months, I'd say he, even at his present state of mind, that he can win a few more races. But I think his win at Michigan will be his only win this season. A lot of people keep saying that he'll be a threat at Talladega this weekend, but I just don't see him pulling it off after his slow start to the Chase. 222. Eric posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You got it wrong on the Gordon-Earnhardt Rivalry because it isn't bad as it appeared besides you making it worse than it actually was. Years ago on Wind Tunnel with Dave Despain, it was revealed that Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Jeff Gordon were business partners for different ventures off the track. That is means the two of them respected each other well enough to be business partners off the track. Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Jeff Gorden matter of fact were the founders of Chase Authentics. That meant Dale Sr. and Jeff were making a lot of money of that rivalry in terms of people buying merchandise. That means some that rivalry was for show and as a way to have people buy merchandise. You have to remember that Dale Earnhardt Sr. one of the best drivers at marketing himself all time thanks to his wife Teresa. Dale knew about the marketing side of NASCAR by the time Jeff Gordon went to cup. That means Dale Sr. being business partners with Jeff Gordon was not far off. Dale Jr. probably knows how his father and Jeff were off the track and there is no reason to have a rivalry off the track. The Earnhardt-Gorden rivalry wasn't like the Bodine-Earnhardt Rivalry. Dale Jr. said years about his dad didn't like the fact his son owned a piece of Geoff Bodine merchandise and Dale grabbed it and shoot it. That tell you how that Bodine-Earnhardt rivalry was by Dale shooting a piece of Geoff Bodine merchandise. 223. cjs3872 posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I disargee with you partly on whether Dale, Jr. can become the top river in the sport. He's never been capable of that, because he's always been technically challenged. He could drive the cars good, but he's always been incapable of giving good feedback, because he's always lacked the technical skills that his teammates have, with one of those skills being the ability to tell what the car's doing. That's why I've always believed that Hendrick Motorsports was about the worst place he could've ended up, because that's always been a very technical organization, and Dale, Jr.'s biggest weaknesses have been his ability to give feedback, as well as doing well as the challenging tracks. He's won 19 times on the Cup circuit, but very few of them have been on driver's tracks. Dale, Jr.'s one of those drivers that have fewer wins (19) than Jeff Gordon hs crown jewel wins (20), which brings back the old Hubert Green comment about Jack Nicklaus from 1980. They asked him after he shot 65 in the third round of the U.S. Open that year whether or not he could cah Nicklaus, to which he responded, "This is Jack Nicklaus. He's won more majors than I've won tournaments". And he was one of the better players of that time. That sentiment can be applied to drivers such as Dale, Jr., Carl Edwards, Kevin Harvick, Greg Biffle, and Ryan Newman. All of them are very good drivers, but each of them have a lower career win total than Jeff Gordon has crown jewel wins. No, Dale, Jr. has never had all the tools to become the top driver on the circuit, but when he lost his desire after 2004, and I believe that sports car fire he had in 2004 had something to do with that, it really began to show. And I think his performance this year had more to do with the trick setups Hendrick was using this year (except the #24 car) than anything else. And when NASCAR did away with the trick setups by tightening the rules at the beginning of the Chase, Dale, Jr. started to slide back and Gordon started to come on like his old self. 224. Eric posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #219, I think Dale jr. is going to win again in his career. Jr. Motorsports is his problem right now beside the 48 team not sharing info. Dale has talent to win again, the question with him is focus and desire. I think the desire is there, but the focus is the question mark at this time. Jr. Motorsports has been struggling for the last couple years and the performance hasn't been great since Brad left for Penske. Danica isn't helping Jr. Motorsports out though from a driver standpoint. 225. cjs3872 posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, I'm not saying that Dale, Jr. and Gordon wouldn't be able to get along. What I am saying is that their rivalry is so fierce, partly due to the past rivalry between Gordon and Dale, Sr., that it would affect them in the shop and on the track. I think that's part of the reason for Gordon's slide when he was in the shop with the #48 team, because they were such fierce rivals. The two rivalries (Gordon vs. Dale, Jr and Gordon vs. the #48 team) are fierce enough, for different reasons, to affect on-track performance. Darrell Waltrip even said earlier this year that Gordon and Johnson each wanted to be the one to get HMS' 200th win, and I think that affected the performance of those two teams, even after Johnson got the 200th for HMS. And remember that Dale, Jr. has hardly ever drafted with Gordon at Daytona and Talladega since Dale, Jr. joined HMS, and Gordon has called him out on that on more than one occasion. I think Dale, Jr. would rather draft with non-HMS drivers at those tracks, such as Tony Stewart, than draft with Gordon. That proves there is a fierce rivalry between those two. But I think they've always gotten along. There's never been a problem as far s that's concerned, though Dale, Jr. and Gordon have had at least two contentious moments this year. 226. Eric posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I mentioned Dale Jr. having the desire to win based on what I saw this year. This is the most desire I saw out of him in terms of winning in years. Dale is a bit better at Driver Tracks than cjs3872 him credit for. Dale has a 10 top 5's and 14 top 10's at Martinsville. Dale is a good short track driver, but he has issues at drivers tracks that are bigger than that and isn't a good road course driver. Dale has 4 short track wins. Dale Jr. was very good at Phoenix for a time also with 2 wins. 7 out of Dale's 19 cup wins are driver track wins. Dale has 3 Richmond wins, 1 Bristol win, 1 Dover wins, and 2 Phoenix wins. 227. cjs3872 posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not saying that Dale, Jr. can't run up front on driver's tracks. What I am saying is that he hasn't won very many races on them. In fact, I've always thought that Martinsville is one of his very best tracks, even though he's never won there. (Remember that as great as he was, Bobby Allison never won there, either.) But he has only those two Michigan wins in six and a half years. And all those driver's track wins were with DEI, not Hendrick Motorsports, where his technical deficiencies really have shown out like a sore thumb, because of the technical organization HMS has always been, going back to when Geoff Bodine and Tim Richmond drove there in the mid 80s. 228. Eric posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When I said Short tracks, I am talking about tracks that less than a mile. 229. Greg in Florida posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Schroeder51. I did not know about the rule change. 230. Talon64 posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski picks up his 9th career Sprint Cup Series victory, tying him with Paul Goldsmith (last career win was Bristol in 1966!), Cotton Owens (RIP, great driver AND owner) and Bob Welborn (two time winner at Martinsville, led 435 of 500 laps for his 1st career win there back in 1957) for 58th all time. Of his 9 wins, he's led 14 or fewer laps in 4 of them. It's also Keselowski's 5th win of 2012, tying him with Denny Hamlin for the series lead. It's the most wins for the #2 Penske car in a season since Rusty Wallace had 5 in 1996. His 8 wins since 2011 are tied with Tony Stewart for the most. And Keselowski is just the 3rd driver win 2 of the first 3 Chase races (Tony Stewart in 2011 and Greg Biffle in 2008, although they each won the first two Chase races). Keselowski now has 12 top 10's in the last 13 races (3 wins, 8 top 5's, 6.1 average finish), after just 6 in the first 16 races of the season. Keselowski picks up his 1st win, top 5 and top 10 in 6 career Dover starts (14.3 avg fin). That leaves 4 tracks that Keselowski doesn't have a top 10 at: Homestead, Las Vegas, Texas and Fontana. I know I went on a spiel over respecting how teams handle the Chase and not to bother looking at the old system, but it's worth pointing out that without the Chase Keselowski would be 3rd in the standings and just 7 points out. That's because over the last 13 races he would've made up 99 points on the leader. Yep, 99 points in 13 races. 2 full races worth of points, making up 7.6 points per race. More than anything, it just shows the kind of amazing run he's been on over the last 3-4 months. Jeff Gordon finishes in the top 3 for the 5th time in the last 6 races, and 6th in the last 9. His 205th career podium finish ties him with Dale Earnhardt for 4th all time (30.06% podium % for Gordon, versus 30.32% for Earnhardt). Gordon had no top 3 finishes in the first 20 races of 2012, but is now tied for the 5th most top 3 finishes this season (with Biffle, Kahne and Kenseth). It's also his 64th career runner-up finish and 3rd of 2012, tied with Jeff Gordon, Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch for 2nd most. It's Gordon's first top 10 in 6 races, although he had a 12.8 avg fin in the 5 races prior to this race. It's his 11th top 3 finish and 4th runnner-up in 40 career Dover starts; he's now tied with Rusty Wallace for 6th all time at Dover with 22 top 10's, and moves ahead of Darrell Waltrip and Ricky Rudd into sole possession of 5th in top 5's with 15. With his 446th career top 10, Mark Martin is now tied with Bobby Allison for the 2nd all time in Cup history. Allison got his 446th top 10 in his 716th career start (10th at Dover in 1988, with Mark finishing right ahead of him in 9th; Allison had his career-ending wreck at Pocono just 2 races later), while Mark Martin's gotten his in his 849th career start. That's a 62.3% top 10 % for Allison, versus 52.5% for Martin. Mark has 3 top 10's, including two 3rd place finishes, in his last 4 starts (7.5 avg fin). With 5 more scheduled starts this season, Mark needs 2 top 10's to make it 25 consecutive seasons with at least 10 top 10's. Mark has 3 top 10's in his last 7 Dover starts, but they're all top 3 finishes (5 top 10's in the last 9 races). Mark Martin extends his records for top 5's (24) and top 10's (32) at Dover, and needs to complete just 28 more laps at Dover to pass Dave Marcis for 4th. Sorry JG24FanForever, but Jimmie Johnson has now toppled one of Jeff Gordon's records. Johnson sets a new NASCAR record with his 11th consecutive season with 20+ top 10's, moving ahead of Jeff Gordon who once held the record at 10 in a row (1995-2004). But Gordon had 230 top 10's in 339 races during his streak (67.8%), versus Johnson's 224 in 396 races (56.6%). Johnson has 3 consecutive top 5 finishes to start the Chase for the 2nd time in his career (2008); that gave him a 10 point lead back then (would be a 2-3 point lead now), but is currently down by 5 points this year. It's the first time he's had 3 straight top 5's since he had 4 in a row back in June. Johnson picks up his 9th top 10 in the last 10 races at Dover (4 wins, 7 top 5's, 4.7 avg fin), but fails to lead the most laps at Dover for the first time in 8 races. However, he did pass Jeff Gordon for 2nd most laps led at Dover with 2,318; only Bobby Allison stands before him with 2,801. Carl Edwards ends his 23-race top 5 drought by equaling his best finish of 2012 in 5th, just his 3rd top 5 of the season. It's his first top 10 in 6 races and just his 3rd in 10 races since Chad Norris became his crew chief (16th in points scored; was 11th in points prior to the crew chief switch). Carl picks up his 11th top 10 in the last 13 races at Dover (8 top 5's, 6.4 average finish). Martin Truex Jr. gets his 2nd top 10 in 3 Chase races, but his 8th in the last 13 races. Despite what appears to be a slow start to the Chase, Truex Jr. is 7th in points scored among Chase drivers in the first 3 Chase races. It's his 3rd top 10 in the last 4 races at Dover and 6th in 14 career starts there (15.6 avg fin). Kyle Busch's 302 laps led in this race is the 3rd most of his career (415 and 378, both coming at Bristol in 2008 and 2009 respectively). Kyle has now failed to win the last 7 times he's led the most laps in race, but it should be noted that he's won 9 of his top 15 races for most laps led in his career. Kyle now sits on 922 laps led this year, giving him a shot at 1000+ laps led for a 5th consecutive season. Kyle Busch finishes in the top 7 for the 6th time in the last 7 races (8.8 avg fin), and now has 5 tracks where he has 10+ top 10's. Denny Hamlin ties his career-high with 3rd pole of 2012 (had 3 in 2006), 2nd only to Mark Martin who has 4. Toyota now has 10 poles this season, tied with Chevy for the most (Ford has 7, Dodge has 1). Hamlin picks up just his 3rd top 10 in the last 11 Dover races and posts his best ever driver rating at Dover with a 119.0 (previous best was 108.0 in 2010, 4th place finish). Clint Bowyer ties his career high from 2010 with his 18th top 10 of the year. It's his 4th straight top 10 and 8th in the last 9 races (8.6 avg fin). It gives MWR 3 cars in the top 10, and their next top 10 will be their 100th in the Cup Series. Bowyer has 4 consecutive top 10's at Dover, and picked up his 7th in 14 starts there (13.2 avg fin). Joey Logano picks up his 40th top 10 in his 140th career Cup start. He's the highest non-Chase driver in points scored so far in the Chase, ranking 7th among all drivers. He's one of just 4 drivers with top 10's in each of the first 3 Chase races, and it's the first time he's had 3 straight top 10's since a 5-race streak in October-November 2010. It's his 4th top 10 in 8 Dover starts (18.0 avg fin). Ricky Stenhouse Jr. is the 2nd highest finishing Roush driver in 12th, his 2nd top 15 finish in 3 career Cup starts (14.3 avg fin). Bobby Labonte picks up just his 4th top 15 finish of the season, but his 2nd in the last 6 races (4 top 20's, 19.7 avg fin). Regan Smith finishes in the top 20 for the 7th time in 10 races with Todd Berrier as his crew chief (7 in the first 19 races of 2012). 231. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.01.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There was no rivalry between Gordon and Earnhardt. Except for '95 they were never even competitive at the same time so nothing could ever be fostered. Plus, as mentioned, they were business partners in merchandise and real estate holdings. Here is how it shook out: 1993-1994: Earnhardt wins his 6th and 7th championships as Jeff runs fast but has trouble adjusting to 500 mile races, wrecking often. 1995: They finish 1-2 in the points, but from early June until the end of the year it was mostlly Jeff up by 200-300 points (until his horrific late season fade that didn't matter) so they didn't really battle. 1996: RCR starts to fall behind but Dale is still Dale so he is still in the title hunt. Until Talladega. 1997-1999: Jeff kicks the living shit out of NASCAR while Dale struggles with nagging and new injuries, RCR getting even worse, and having Mike Skinner as his only teammate. They are not in the same class over this stretch. 2000: Dale gets surgery and is Dale again, therefore the struggles of RCR and Mike Skinner's worthless ass aren't holding him back anymore. This allows him to be back in the thick of the title hunt again at age 49. Meanwhile HMS falls to shit. Jeff still gets 3 wins, but only 2 of which did he not lose 100 points (should've been Dale's win and a $1 million dollar bonus). So there was no "rivalry" between the two. 232. Cooper posted: 10.01.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF its been a hell of a journey. It might lead to heaven or heartbreak, but no matter what we can say we were there at the start. Brad's fans couldve bailed in 2010 or even in 2006. But to stick with him and now being able to kick ass is an honour. 233. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) According to MRN's Dave Moody, Kyle Busch went on a tirade over the radio after he finished the race in 7th, all aimed at TRD. He called them "piece of s#*t mother@$%&ers", and then said "Thanks a lot TRD for @$%&ing up another one." Crew chief Dave Rogers then keyed his own microphone to prevent hearing any more profanity, to which Kyle replied "Yeah, nice try covering up the mic. Whatever." Okay, I understand, being a former high school athlete myself, that sometimes we say things in the heat of the moment that we know we shouldn't say. But somebody tell me how the hell all these name-calling, profanity-laced radio tirades is going to improve anything at JGR or TRD? It isn't going to make TRD work any harder to give Kyle the best engines they can give him. If anything, TRD (and maybe JGR) is starting to count down the days that they have to put up with and work with this guy before they're free from having their equipment slandered. Looking at the numbers, Kyle shouldn't be the one complaining about their engine package. If you recall, JGR began using TRD engines instead of their own in-house engines this past offseason. This season, there are six teams using TRD engines (JGR and MWR) and they've had nine engine failures this season. Compare that to Hendrick engines, which are used in seven cars (HMS and SHR) and have suffered 14 engine failures this season, four of which have been suffered by Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson this season. If anybody should be complaining about their engines, it's those two. The difference is that they keep their complaints behind closed doors to avoid alienating their engine builders, rather than blister their engine shop over the team radio. Proving once again why Gordon and Johnson are champions and why Shrub is not. The timing of this latest Kyle Busch meltdown couldn't have come at a worse time as JGR just started negotiations with Kyle and Toyota for a contract extension, meaning that both JGR and Toyota have to pay Kyle Busch to return to the team. Now why would Toyota, a manufacturer that is in NASCAR to sell their cars and trucks to people, want to pay money to a guy who bashes their equipment so that he can continue to do so for years down the road? It doesn't make any sense. Not only has this created a rift between Kyle and Toyota, but it may have caused a rift between JGR and Toyota because JGR wants Kyle to drive a car that he's only going to continue to bash in the future. It sounds to me that the relationship between Kyle and Dave Rogers is gone, as evidenced by Rogers muting his mic so he wouldn't hear any more profanity rather than trying to calm Kyle down; so he's given up on Kyle. The engine supplier is upset with Kyle for bashing their engines, even though they've held up much better than the Hendrick engines have this season. And the car manufacturer is upset that a.) one of their drivers is bashing their cars and could hurt possible Toyota sales, and b.) that their top NASCAR team wants to re-sign that very driver who's been doing all the bashing. Not once have I heard Hamlin, Logano, Bowyer, Truex, Martin, Waltrip, or Vickers complain about TRD or Toyota's shortcomings this season. There is one common denominator in all of this, and it's Kyle Busch. Let's see, we have three Toyota/TRD drivers in the Chase, and one TRD driver, while an incredibly talented driver, is outside the Chase and is bashing our equipment. Does Toyota really want Kyle back? I think the answer is obvious, but we'll probably have to wait a few months to find out as contract negotiations between the three sides has just begun. 234. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brad's fans couldve bailed in 2010 or even in 2006." He had fans back in 2006? ;) 235. murb posted: 10.01.2012 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just when you think Kyle is starting to get it, he pulls stuff like this. We say it all the time. He has the talent to be a two or three time champion, but it's not looking like he'll ever accomplish even one championship. He's wasting time. I'm picking Regan Smith to win this weekend's race at Talladega. Can't you see it? He gets the win in his last race for Furniture Row at the track where he was robbed of his first win. The headline writes itself. 236. Eric posted: 10.01.2012 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The summery of rivalry between Gordon and Earnhardt by DaleSrFanForever is 100 percent accurate based on what I remembered of it also. I thought it was an overrated rivalry that was a combination of media hype,two drivers creating a rivalry as clever way of making a lot of money in a merchandise company they own, and fans of the two drivers not liking the other driver. I mentioned the fans of the two drivers was one of the factors because how do you explain the fact there was website called Race Fans against Jeff Gordon back in the late 1990's otherwise? That site even had jokes about Jeff Gordon even. That website did get shutdown by Hendrick Motorsports if I recalled correctly. I know about that extinct website by the fact a family member told me about the site at the time. The fact is Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhardt Sr. drew different types of fans at the time. While Bill Elliott was winning most popular driver of the year awards, Dale was a fact of NASCAR. Jeff Gordon was a face of NASCAR also at the same time. That resulted in a battle between fan bases. 237. murb posted: 10.01.2012 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I predict he will end his career with around 25 wins." I do agree that Jr will win again, but I think 25 is a little too many. He's one of those guys (in addition to Biffle, Newman, and Harvick) where when they win, you have to wonder whether or not it will be their last win. He's just too streaky and doesn't have enough time to get to 25 in my opinion (unless he goes on a race winning tear in the next couple of years, which I really doubt - he's never really had any hot winning years other than 2004). I see him getting to maybe 21 or 22 wins. This kind of gets me thinking. Where will some of the current Cup guys end up as far as total career wins go? Here are some of my predictions: Jeff Gordon: 90 (Basically, I think he'll get like four more and then call it quits in about 2015 or so.) Jimmie Johnson: 73 (Seems about right.) Tony Stewart: 55 (A little iffy, but he can probably get there. He's got 47 right now.) Denny Hamlin: 38 (Along with at least one championship.) Carl Edwards: 31 (I expect him to keep driving at least another 8 or 9 years. I can also see him going the Mark Martin/Harry Gant route and going well into his 50s.) Kasey Kahne: 25 (Seems about right to me. He's never really lit it up in the win column other than in 2006.) Kyle Busch: 40 (Biggest question here: Will he ever become a champion?) Kurt Busch: 25 (He'll probably win one plate race with Furniture Row, and then that will be it.) Kevin Harvick: 23 (Streaky.) Greg Biffle: 23 (Streaky.) Danica Patrick: 1 (Sorry, but you just know that they will rig the July Daytona race or something for her at some point.) Brad Keselowski: Impossible to tell at this point. (From what I've been seeing lately, he may go on an Earnhardt-Gordon-Johnson dynasty run. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he reached at least 40 in the next ten years.) 238. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 10.01.2012 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Danica Patrick: 1 (Sorry, but you just know that they will rig the July Daytona race or something for her at some point.)" Wow, seriously? Another "rigged" thing coming for Danica. Danica ONLY chance to win a Cup race is have half the field wreck in front of her (with manufactered pack racing, that CAN and COULD happen) and she manages to not to get involved. Only race tracks Danica is good at is plate tracks (she is better at the tandem drafting, then the manufactered pack racing). She isn't going to win any where else. It IS NOT going to be rigged for her, she'll avoid the manufactered pack racing melee and win it. 239. Spen posted: 10.01.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once Danica improves to the point where she can stay on the lead lap for an entire race (with help from Aaron's, anyway), I think she will manage to steal one Logano 2009 style. If there's a drop of rain on the track, and Danica's leading, I can assure you that the race will be called off immediately. 240. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Danica Patrick: 1 (Sorry, but you just know that they will rig the July Daytona race or something for her at some point.)" To finish first, you must first finish. Danica failed to finish any of her four Daytona races this year, and with the current restrictor plate program in the Cup Series, she has a better chance of blowing her engine by getting too close to another car than winning a race. I'd give David Gilliland or Ragan a better chance at winning one of these "manufactured plate races." "Kurt Busch: 25 (He'll probably win one plate race with Furniture Row, and then that will be it.)" Until he goes to RCR, in which case he'll probably at least reach 30 wins. I agree that the Earnhardt/Gordon rivalry was overblown looking back on it, and I wasn't even watching when it happened. I think on paper, it was the greatest rivalry in NASCAR at the time. On one hand you have this California "rich kid" with a "crash stache" and a mullet dressed in rainbow colors and wins a championship at age 23 and has had career stability for 20 years; and on the other hand you have this rugged driver from the mill town of Kannapolis, North Carolina with a "bad-ass stache" and a black car who had to fight and claw his way up the racing ranks and won didn't win a championship until age 29, and even then was booted from his ride the following season and had to fight for his career for another five years. It wasn't so much a "face vs. heel" rivalry as it was a divided fanbase rivalry. For any wrestling fans out there, I would compare it to the "Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels" rivalry of '97. Bret was the old school wrestler who had been wrestling since he was a child growing up in the famous Hart wrestling family, and Shawn was the younger hotshot wrestler who did all the flashy moves and poses that made the younger fans scream. During the course of the rivalry, Bret was cheered in Canada and booed in the U.S., while Shawn was booed in Canada and cheered in the U.S. I think the Gordon/Earnhardt rivalry was very much the same way. I think a lot of "new school" fans gravitated towards Gordon because they saw him as the guy who could dethrone Earnhardt and become the new face of NASCAR, and a the people who were already Earnhardt fans remained so and in the process became anti-Gordon fans because they saw him as Earnhardt's main opposition from the mid-90s onward. It's a shame neither of them were at their best at the same time aside from '95 and part of '96, because that had the potential to being the greatest rivalry in NASCAR history (or at least 2nd to Petty/Pearson). One way to look at it is to compare their '93 and '94 seasons to the movie "Rocky", '95 to "Rocky II", and then everything after that to the end fight in the awful "Rocky V" movie. At first the veteran wins (though by a larger margin than "Rocky"), then the newcomer surprises a lot of people by beating the 7-time champion, and then the rivalry became pretty one-sided (with the two switching roles in '00). One can only imagine how things would have turned out in '01, because Earnhardt was back on top of his game and Gordon went on to win the championship that year. Sadly, we'll never know how that year would have turned out and if they would have battled for the title again. I'd like to think they would have because Earnhardt was never streaky aside from his '92 season and his injury-laden seasons, and Gordon was back in championship form in '01. 241. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.01.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gotta say this before Benjamin Lowe beats me to it: Jay Cutler (who just walked away from his offensive coordinator as he was trying to consult him) is the Kyle Busch of the NFL. Both are pouty as shit, have hard to like personalities, unpopular among their own team members, and both have extreme talent that has led to nothing (think about it, what has either really accomplished?). And Paul, you are spot on about Kyle and Dave Rogers. But, like his brother, Kyle has a limited shelf life with any crew chief. They are just so abrasive and tough to work with, anybody who breaks their backs to build competitive cars can only stand so much before they finally say "screw it, since I am so freaking useless go find somebody else". 242. Spen posted: 10.01.2012 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyway, my expectations of where everyone ends up career wins-wise: Jeff Gordon: 93. He's got at least one more season of winning three or four races left in him, plus a couple of extra wins along the way. Jimmie Johnson: 82. Sounds high I know, but he's got the determination to do it. Another seven-win season, plus several other multi-win seasons should put him above Earnhardt. Tony Stewart: 55 sounds right to me, too. Mark Martin: 41. He'll break Harry's record next year. Kurt Busch: 31. He'll get a competitive car again. Not next year, but sometime. Kyle Busch: 45. No championships, though. Denny Hamlin: 29. His days of being top dog at Gibbs are limited, but he'll get the most out of that time. Matt Kenseth: 27. He'll win some at Gibbs, but I expect he'll pretty much be in the Terry Labonte role there. Jeff Burton: 22. We need one more Kim Burton reaction. Dale Earnhardt, Jr.: 22. Occassional wins out of nowhere, but not a big winner. Carl Edwards: 28. He'll have one or two more big years, mixed in with a lot of winless seasons. Greg Biffle: 20. He's almost done. Kevin Harvick: 21. He'll have a comeback next year, but once Austin gets to Cup, he can forget about being a regular contender. Ryan Newman: 18. They'll be totally out of left field, but he'll win them. Kasey Kahne: 25 sounds right to me, too. Brad Keselowski: 19. One more win for this year, followed by a lot of one-win seasons once he becomes Ford's #4. Clint Bowyer: 12. He'll make double-digets at least. Jamie McMurray: 7. He's got one more in him, if Ganassi can get their act together for a plate race at least. Marcos Ambrose: 4. A couple more road course wins, but no oval wins. Joey Logano: 9. He's got a lot of years to get them. Juan Pablo Montoya: 3. He'll win another road course before calling it quits. Trevor Bayne: Impossible to predict, but probably well under 20. Martin Truex, Jr.: 3. He'll break through again at some point. Paul Menard: 2. He'll repeat sometime. David Ragan, David Reutimann, Casey Mears, Regan Smith, Brian Vickers, Elliott Sadler: All done. Ricky Stenhouse Jr.: Probably double-digets, but hard to predict at this point. Danica Patrick: 1. 243. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.01.2012 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric and Paul, you both nailed the Earnhardt/Gordon "rivalry". It was all superficial. The tiny little polished kid from the Bay Area, rainbow colored car, married a model (then another model), stylish (at least after he shaved the crash stache), got a very early start, etc against the ultimate man's man, tall and stout, delightfully unpolished and crude, hardscrabble road to the top, 2nd and 3rd wives were both daughters of people who made racing their careers (don't know much about his first wife), etc. The truth is they rarely battled on track. Calling it a rivalry is an insult to Petty - Pearson, Petty - Allison, Dale - Rusty, Gordon - Johnson etc. (Btw, speaking of Jeff being tiny, one of the funniest things about his dynasty is that he was so little he could never really lift those huge Winston Cup championship trophies. He always held them lopsided and looked like he was gonna collapse and drop them any moment) 244. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Next year I'll be rooting for three drivers: Jeff Gordon, Brad Keselowski, and Matt Kenseth. If the first two can't win the title, I hope Kenseth does just to rub it in Roush's face. I've never rooted for a Toyota to win the championship before (though I've never had to worry about one winning it either), but I'll be rooting for Kenseth in his redemption season. Now that's what I call diversity, pulling for three drivers from three different manufacturers to win the title. 245. murb posted: 10.01.2012 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wow, seriously? Another "rigged" thing coming for Danica. Danica ONLY chance to win a Cup race is have half the field wreck in front of her (with manufactered pack racing, that CAN and COULD happen) and she manages to not to get involved. Only race tracks Danica is good at is plate tracks (she is better at the tandem drafting, then the manufactered pack racing). She isn't going to win any where else. It IS NOT going to be rigged for her, she'll avoid the manufactered pack racing melee and win it." When I say "rigged", I mean to say exactly what Spen said in post 239. "Logano style" is an excellent example. I see her having a race at some point where she'll be up front at the end of a race (as you said, probably a plate race where she makes it through the wrecks), and I see something out of the ordinary (like rain or whatever) getting her the win. I don't know, that's just something I can see happening. No need to get so intense over it. "Matt Kenseth: 27. He'll win some at Gibbs, but I expect he'll pretty much be in the Terry Labonte role there." I forgot to put Kenseth in mine. 27 sounds reasonable, although I might go up to maybe 29 or possibly 30. It really depends on how much longer he will race. 246. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I forgot to mention their wives. To go along with Gordon's post-2001 luck, his wife divorced him and ran off with most of his fortune. I think he did pretty well at staying focused during that time and didn't just ride around for a few years, a la Junior Johnson post-1992. "(Btw, speaking of Jeff being tiny, one of the funniest things about his dynasty is that he was so little he could never really lift those huge Winston Cup championship trophies. He always held them lopsided and looked like he was gonna collapse and drop them any moment)" So that explains the size of the current trophy. Haha but sometimes size isn't always the case. Remember when Carl Edwards had trouble lifting that Busch Series championship trophy in '07, the same trophy that resembles those barbells he always brags about lifting? Yeah, way to earn your Subway sponsorship there, champ. 247. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.01.2012 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon will make it to 95. He has one more big run left in him. I think JJ will barely pass the 70 mark. I just have a feeling he will start trailing off soon. I think Smoke will scare 60 but not quite get there I look for Kenseth to have one huge season at Gibbs (like KyBu in '08 and Denny in '10) and will make it to 35, I think he will race a lot longer than most age wise. I don't think Carl will make it to 30. Goes on way too many droughts that seem to stretch forever. I think Kyle has more wins behind him than ahead of him. He is such a cancer to everyone around him, eventually he will be blackballed for the most part just like his brother, who I doubt will get more than 2 more wins if that many. His stint at FRR/RCR will end like his stints everywhere else. I think Harvick ends up with 23 max. Between his style and RCR, I don't think there is much more. June gets 3 more at most, I wouldn't be surprised if it is just 1. And Danica has no chance. She isn't anywhere close enough to luck into one. Brad, not sure. Hard not to talk with my heart on this one. I also wanna see how he does at Ford. Surely Roger didn't simply turn them into a satellite team. As long as they didn't screw themselves, I see him and Paul (and Miller Lite's big $$$) having a long successful dynasty. They have already proven all they need is a Top 5 car in the late stages and they can find a win. Add the continuity to that, and they could break the 50 mark. They both know what they have and how much they compliment each other. But if Roger screwed them and they have to waste 3 prime years, I'm sure they would leave as a package deal (take over the 24 in 2016?). Then it would be a struggle to get past 30 considering the adjustment phases as well as 3 wasted years (think Kahne and Francis, who will get past the 30 mark themselves). Surely The Captain knows what he is doing. Brad seems to have the same optimism about Ford that he had when he first joined Penske and we all said "what the hell?". 248. Eric posted: 10.01.2012 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon:90 wins seem right. Jimmie Johnson: anywhere from 75 to 80 wins. 71 wins seem to low for a 37 year old driver that already has 58 wins. Tony Stewart: anywhere from 50 to 60 wins. I might be off from the high side and the fact Danica is going to be a big headache for him as an owner. That means Danica is going to be a big distraction for him. Denny Hamlin: anywhere from 40 to 60 cup wins. Denny already has 22 wins and has 3 seasons of 4 or more wins a season despite being almost 32 years. Denny is capable of getting more big win seasons of 4 wins or more and is still in his prime. Carl Edwards: Anywhere from 30 to 40 wins. He's only 33 right now,but 13 of his 19 wins came in 2 seasons. I am banking it on him going the Harry Gant or Mark Mark Martin Rote in terms being competitive. Kasey Kahne: anywhere from 30 to 40 wins. I am saying that because could have won more than 2 races this year if wasn't for his pit crew. His low amount of wins of a season outside of this year is caused by the teams is with. Kyle Busch: anywhere from 25 to 60 wins. It really depends on Kyle's behavior. Kurt Busch: anywhere from 25 to 30 wins. I see Kurt Busch getting a better ride than Furniture Row down the road. It comes down to his behavior. Kevin Harvick: anywhere from 19 to 23 wins. Kevin's big problem is his owner cars more about his two grandsons racing careers. That means Kevin is going to have some average years. I think he'll leave RCR at some point for another team. Greg Biffle: anywhere from 19 to 25 wins. I know he'll be 43 next year. He may be the next Harry Gant or Mark Martin. His problem is being with Jack Roush. Danica Patrick: 0 wins. Matt Kenseth: anywhere from 25 to 35 wins. Matt is going an organization that better than he has currently. I know Matt is going to be 41 next year, but he could go Harry Gant or Mark Martin on us for being competitive. Clint Bowyer: anywhere from 18 to 22 wins. I know Clint only has 6 wins despite being 33 years old, but MWR made a lot of improvements. I know Clint doesn't win a lot in a year, but I think he'll win 3 wins a season at some point. Clint is a driver that will get his wins from driver tracks and plate tracks. Dale Jr.: anywhere from 20 to 24 wins. Brad Keselowski: I am not going to prediction this one. There are multiple problems here. The first one is Penske is switching to Ford. The 2nd problem is Roush doesn't want other ford teams to out do his own organization. The 3rd problem is Penske is not building his own engines for cup anymore. The 4th problem is Roger's age. He is going to be 76 next year and I don't know how much focus his kids will focus on the cup side with Roger owning teams in multiple series. Ryan Newman: Anywhere from 17 to 23 wins. I know Ryan is only going to be 35 in December, but he doesn't win a lot in a season outside of his 2003 season. The other question is how much longer Newman is going to stay with Stewart-Haas with him having a new crew and crew chief next year. I don't see a top team picking him up anymore outside the team he is with. Marcos Ambrose: anywhere from 3 to 10 wins. Stewart and Gordon doesn't seem be at their height as road course drivers anymore although Stewart almost at Sear's point. I don't see him an oval unless he somehow wins a plate race. Richard Petty Motorsports isn't good enough to win on ovals unless a fluke win happens. The only way his win total predication changes is if NASCAR adds a 3rd road course and is something I don't see happening in the next 12 years unless attendance at one of the cup tracks gets putrid. Jamie McMurray: anywhere from 7 to 10 wins. He's a threat to win on plate tracks, but no where else. EGR is terrible as an organization. I don't know where else he'll be going if leaves EGR and sure can't be a top organization. Joey Logano: anywhere from 5 to 15 wins. Drivers that win at Pocono usually win usually have decent win totals. Mayfield and Kyle Petty are the only Pocono winners outside of Joey that doesn't at least of 10 career cup wins. That being said, Joey should win races for Penske. Montoya, Bobby Labonte, Jeff Burton, Mears, Vickers, Reutimann and Smith are done winning for sure. I brought up Montoya not winning again based on the fact he is racing in junk and I don't see him staying with Chip after a couple more years despite their relationship. I don't see any cup team outside of an underfunded team to give him a rid if he leaves Chip. 249. Eric posted: 10.01.2012 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I mentioned zero wins for Danica Patrick for a reason. She seems good on Road Courses in the Nationwide series, but there are more talented road course drivers on the cup side that are regulars than the Nationwide series has currently. She might be able to pull off a top 10 on a road course, but that is it outside maybe a plate race. There are great plate drivers one the cup side and the fact is Danica doesn't seem to be the type of a driver to pull of a plate win. Danica is going to have problems staying on the lead lap even with Newman's crew chief and crew members next year. 250. David posted: 10.01.2012 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chase standings under cjs's system: 1. Jimmie Johnson - 2199 2. Brad Keselowski - 2190 3. Denny Hamlin - 2161 4. Clint Bowyer - 2141 5. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 2130 6. Kasey Kahne - 2128 7. Tony Stewart - 2125 8. Greg Biffle - 2121 9. Jeff Gordon - 2118 10. Martin Truex, Jr. - 2116 11. Kevin Harvick - 2099 12. Matt Kenseth - 2091 251. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Gordon will make it to 95. He has one more big run left in him." You were the only non-Gordon fanboy that said he would make the Chase after Watkins Glen, so I have no choice other than to listen to you on this. ;) I think Brad will have an adjustment period for the first 1/3 of next season, but with his and Paul Wolfe's talent and work ethic, they will make the Chase and win races next year. If everything goes according to plan (i.e no injuries, changes in management, Roush sabotage, etc.) the Blue Deuce will be back to championship form by Chase time next year and for many years down the road. I think Brad's career will be what Dale Jr.'s career could have been. If you think about it, they are the exact opposite of each other. Junior's father was arguably the greatest of all time, Brad's father was a blue collar man who had little success in NASCAR. When driving for their fathers' teams, Junior was in RCR-like equipment, Brad was in Phoenix Racing-like equipment. Junior had sponsors right off the bat, Brad had no sponsors for a few years. When they were 23 years old, Junior was contending for a Busch Series title, Brad was driving for Keith Coleman and had a one-off in the Truck Series at Memphis (thank you Ted Musgrave). But most importantly, once they both reach the Cup Series, Junior seemed content with just being in the championship hunt, but Brad has the attitude of "championship or bust" this season. I just don't see the fire in Junior's eyes that say "I'm going to win the championship." I think he's more "yeah I wanna win the title, but I'm cool if it doesn't happen." Well championships don't just happen, they are taken by one guy who wanted it more than anybody else, whether it's by beating your competition (Earnhardt) or letting them beat themselves (Johnson). I see Brad winning it Earnhardt-style and he doesn't come off like someone who will beat themselves. Plus it helps that he has a crew chief that wouldn't let him give up even if he tried. Junior the talent but little to no desire to be the best, Brad has the talent AND the desire to be the best. Mark my words, by this point two years from now, Brad will have more wins than Junior, and possibly more Cup titles too. By the way, did any of you see that ESPN article about Brad, Jimmie, and Denny? They show a picture of each of them, and of course, the idiots use a pic of Brad from 2010. Trying to jinx the man from winning the title? Good luck with that. 252. Spen posted: 10.01.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At the moment, yes Danica won't be able to keep up well enough to steal a win. But fast-forward to 2017, she should be able to at least keep up with the mid-packers. 253. Paul posted: 10.01.2012 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I forgot to mention this in my last post, but I must say I thank Junior for seeing the talent in Brad Keselowski from that one-off Truck race in '07 by giving him a full-time Nationwide ride for the next 2.5 years. Pairing him with Tony Eury, Sr. was great for Brad's maturity in his first few years. Just goes to show you how valuable Tony Sr. was to JRM. Thanks for the proper send-off, Tony Sr.'s nephew. Speaking of Danica inheriting Newman's team for next season, it appears that "Team Obliterator" has now left her mark at SHR, similar to how she left it at JRM with the removal of the Eurys. For the sake of his team, I hope Tony Stewart comes to his senses soon and drops her, because she's nothing but bad news for a team, especially a growing team like SHR. 254. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.02.2012 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica still in NASCAR in 2017? Oh please no! I figured even if she somehow stuck around for a while eventually people would stop making excuses for her, but after watching this MNF game and seeing ESPN still making every excuse in the book for Tony Romo after all these years plus realizing June will get the kid gloves treatment for his entire career since he NEVER gets called out publically (big exception: the '09 Daytona 500 by, in the irony of ironies, Darrell who normally is a cartoon character on TV but for those of us who saw or have watched old tapes of him in the 70's and 80's know is is actually very intelligent who can provide spot on insight as he did in that situation but instead usually just hams it up and acts like a dumbass fanboy, with his rare moments of insight making it even more frustrating) I know Danica will always have excuses made for her. And where is all the media praise for Ricky Stenhouse for finishing 12th in just his 2nd ever Cup start on the tough Monster? That is a big deal!!! Look how much ESPN and the media praised Danica for being in 22nd place on the lead lap in the caution filled Bristol race for 430 laps before getting dumped. ESPN didn't even mention Ricky. But I will say everytime I caught a glimpse of his car on TV it was dead ass sideways. I'm telling ya, he will be fun to watch next year. If he gets any TV time that is. 255. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.02.2012 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good point Paul about Brad being the Bizarro June. 256. Paul posted: 10.02.2012 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think there are two, maybe three people in the NASCAR media that I can see coming down on Danica: Larry McReynolds and Jeff Hammond for sure, and maybe Kyle Petty if he gives up on his circus act. I remember watching Nationwide practice or qualifying a few weeks ago (I think it was at Kentucky) and both Larry Mac and Jeff were in the booth. They showed Brad Sweet on the screen and they said that every time Kasey Kahne is in the #38 car, it has a shot at winning the race, yet is invisible when Brad is in the car, and saying that it's not the car or team that's struggling; basically calling Brad out on his lack of results this season. They did the same thing with Brian Scott, using the success of the #18 and #20 teams this season as examples against Brian's shortcomings at JGR. And Kyle Petty isn't afraid of shooting on a driver when he's in the booth (it's a different story when he's on Trackside). Back in 2010, before Danica made her Nationwide debut, he said something along the lines of "If she gets it done, it was a great move by JRM. But if a few years from now she's not getting it done, then she was wasting time in a seat that a more talented driver could have been in." So far it's been the latter for her. Other than those three, everybody is going to tell her how great she is and how the other drivers take advantage of her (Tony Eury, Jr. at the beginning), instead of telling her the truth that she has to drive her own car and get results on her own (Tony Eury, Jr. at the end), which explains why Tony Jr. is no longer at JRM. I just find it sad that crew chiefs are being fired because they're telling their drivers what they don't want to hear, probably at the request of the driver too. And I agree about Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. I mentioned shortly after the race ended that I was very impressed with his 12th place finish at the tough Dover track. I heard over MRN that he hit the wall at one point (I like how ESPN never shuts up about him on Saturdays, but never spoke about him on Sunday). He's going to be very fun to watch next year. Might bring back memories of Swervin' Irvan, with hopefully a little less swervin'. 257. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.02.2012 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its funny you mentioned Swervin Irvan. Going to tracks like Wilkesboro and Rockingham in the early 90's as a little kid, there were two cars I watched from my seat. The black #3 cause of who was driving it (it would take a few more years before I was old enough to truly appreciate his brilliance behind the wheel, especially in those years, of balancing aggression, patience, mental warfare, and simply pulling off moves nobody else could) and that gold #4 car. He was gonna either win, make a good run at the win, or fail spectacularly trying. It seemed like every single corner there was a 25% chance he was gonna wreck. I couldn't stop watching (until he crashed out lol). That is how Ricky will be at first in Cup (and how he is now). I'm not really a fan (still unsure of his personality) but I will be watching him for the pure entertainment. Until he crashes out lol. 258. Paul posted: 10.02.2012 - 1:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Ricky will contend for wins next season (by 2014 I think he will), but I think he will do what you just said about Irvan, except it'll be for a top 5, 10, 15,or 20 place finish; basically every milestone finish except for 1st. He'll be running two more Cup races this year at Charlotte in two weeks and Homestead, so mark that down on your calendar everyone. And I agree with you about being unsure about his personality. He and Austin Dillon are the two hardest guys to root for because you never know which personality you're going to get. Sometimes they're very humble and likable young guns, other times they're blaming others for their shortcomings and/or not taking responsibility for their mistakes. cjs compared Austin Dillon to Davey Allison, and while I'll attest that there are some similarities, he's no Davey Allison in my book. Hopefully they both mature soon because I'd hate to think I'm going to watch two drivers I can't stand for another 15-20 years. 259. 10andJoe posted: 10.02.2012 - 3:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) GOOD NEWS, EVERYBODY! "Teams also are anticipating that NASCAR will get rid of the top-35 rule and go back to the previous system of the top 36 (or 37 or 38) cars in qualifying making the race, with the remainder of the field set by provisionals based primarily on owner points. The top-35 rule guarantees the top 35 teams in owner points starting spots in each race. The rest of the field must make the race on speed. Under the new format, all teams would have to qualify on speed or have enough owner points to be eligible for a provisional starting spot. NASCAR could announce that change and other new rules during a test at Talladega Superspeedway Wednesday for the 2013 Cup car." 260. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.02.2012 - 7:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully Danica will be out out of the sport of auto racing (and the public eye) by 2017. 261. Paul posted: 10.02.2012 - 10:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's great news that the "top 35 rule" may be going away after this season. Unfortunately, the damage of that rule has been done as seen by the high number of start-and-park teams, which most of the teams outside the top 35 have become. Now watch members from (as 1995 Subaru would put it) the "peanut gallery" complain once a S&P driver makes the race and a distance car from FRM or (God forbid) Danica fails to qualify. 262. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 10.02.2012 - 10:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It seems like once a decade you get that one crew chief that comes in and makes a big impact in Nascar. Since I've been old enough to watch, I've say Ray Evernham, Chad Knaus and now Paul Wolfe come in and make and impact on how the crew chief position can be used. Ray Evernham came into play in the 1990's and really taught everyone how to bend the rules. He and Jeff Gordon became one of the more intimidating duo's for everyone to contend with in the garage area. In the 2000's Chad Knaus came into the sport as a crew chief with Jimmie Johnson. Chad was able to lead Jimmie to multiple titles all because of his strategy of points racing. Now, we have Paul Wolfe and Brad Keselowski. Paul is better than anyone in the garage area right now of playing the strategy game. In this current time, pit strategy is becoming bigger than it has ever been before. Paul Wolfe is always putting Brad Keselowski in a position to run up front because of a strategic call made in the pits. I'm not slighting other teams and drivers, but it seems like once a decade, you always get that one driver and crew chief that come in and really gel together and have unlimited confidence in each other. 263. cjs3872 posted: 10.02.2012 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, in the 80s, the trend-setting crew chief was the much underrated Kirk Shelmerdine, as he led the era's greatest pit crew, as Richard Childress Racing's "Flying Aces" took over the mantle of the sport's best pit crew from the Wood Brothers, then there was Ray Evernham in the 90s, Chad Knaus in the last decade, and apparently Paul Wolfe at the beginning of this decade. And there have been flagrant accusations of the #2 team cheating where the fuel cell is concerned. They only way I see that being possible is if they've found a way to expand the size of the fuel cell by some kind of pressurization system, allowing them to get an extra gallon or two of fuel capacity, thus making their fuel cell a 20-gallon fuel cell, instead of 18-18.5 gallons. But as Darrell Waltrip has always said, part of getting a few extra laps of fuel also has to do with the driver. One of the reasons that Joe Gibbs' team gets such lousy mileage now is because their drivers are always flat to the floor at all times. But let's not forget that Bobby Labonte stole a number of races for Gibbs by saving fuel, because of his more conservative driving style. Jimmie Johnson has problems currently and Jeff Gordn has always had problems with poor fuel mileage for the same reason that Gibbs' current drivers do. It's because he's flat-out all the time, and if you drive flat-out, that's going to hurt fuel mileage. If Gordon was a litle more conservative in these situations, he might have 100 wins by now, because there's no telling how many races he's lost due to fuel mileage, but I don't think he's ever won one that way. Now there are certainly other factors involved, such as how the engines are "jetted", but the engine builders also know they can't lean them out too much, or they may end up burning a piston, knocking them out for the day. So when the drivers cut off their engines to try to save fuel, they're actually taking a risk on burning a piston, possibly without even realizing it. 264. 10andJoe posted: 10.02.2012 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ It's also completely fair to assume that the Dodge engine is inherently better at fuel mileage than the other marques'. (It's just that the 22 has never been in position to capitalise on it.) 265. cjs3872 posted: 10.02.2012 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That 10andJoe, is where the "jetting" comes into play. A team can decide whether it wants to go for fuel mileage or power, or any combination, depending on how aggressive they choose to be. But again, that's now the only factor in fuel mileage. The driver has something to do with it, which is one reason why JGR gets such terrible fuel mileage today, but they got the best when Bobby Labonte drove for them. And if the team can find a way to get more fuel into the cell (which seems improbable), and pick up all the fuel in the cell, they could go longer on a tank of fuel than anyone else. Nobody seemed to be able to get more out of a tank of fuel than Gary Nelson, back in his day. That's one thing Nelson always concentrated on. Nelson's ability to squeeze all the fuel out of the cell was passed to future Hendrick crew chiefs, which is why their cars get such good mileage under normal circumstances, something that Tony Stewart has taken advantage of more than once. 266. Paul posted: 10.02.2012 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski has taken himself out of the Nationwide race at Kansas in two weeks, saying he wants to focus on the Chase that weekend. Ryan Blaney will drive the #22 that weekend instead. 267. cjs3872 posted: 10.02.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I think that Brad Keselowski has learned from guys like Kyle Busch nd Carl Edwards, among others in past years, as they would run both races, even at the expense of their attention to the Cup championship. But Keselowski is certainly not the first driver to do this. I remember Darrell Waltrip once saying that he took himself out of his Nationwide Series car in 1985 when he was battling Bill Elliott for the championship, and put Terry Labonte (ironically, the driver that would replace Waltrip in Junior's #11 car) in his Nationwide car at Charlotte, and Labonte won the race. But it's nice to see a driver that actually seems to have his priorities in order, as far as doing double duty is concerned. I wonder how many more time Keselowski is going to step out of the #22 NNS car if he continues to be in hot contention for the Cup title. 268. Smiff_99 posted: 10.02.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Normally, I'd agree wholeheartedly with this. However, the track's going to be much different than in wasearlier this year. I *kinda* think in this case it would've been a GOOD thing to run both races. Either way, it'll be great to Ryan Blaney get an extra race in that car this year, and it's even better to see how FOCUSED keselowski is right now....he's calm, savvy, and him and Wolfe are simply ON IT right now. I'm sorry, but regardless of all the problems with the sport that are picked upon ad nauseum, this is gonna be fun to watch....and who the hell knows how Talladega will turn out. Three things we'll definitly see are Johnson running scared in the back all day (smart, but lame), Keselowski trying to stay up front and lead as much as possible, and a Chase-altering wreck (Just call me Captain Obvious....lol) 269. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.02.2012 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My boy is all grown up. Brad foregoing the NWide race is a huge step. And it is a win for everyone involved. Ryan, the future, gets even more seat time and experience while Brad can simply focus where it only matters for a full time Cup competitor, especially one leading the points. Very proud he made that decision. 270. 10andJoe posted: 10.02.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the provisionals rule, which looks likely to be coming back next year thank God, was in effect, here's how things would have worked out at Dover: If top 36 on time: Slowest car making the field: #23 Riggs Provisionals to: #31 Burton, #38 Gilliland, #10 Patrick, #32 Bell, #36 Yeley, #33 Leicht, #30 Stremme DNQs: #49 Leffler, #87 Nemechek, #19 Bliss, #37 Blaney, #79 Biers If top 38 on time: Slowest car making the field: #10 Patrick Provisionals to: #31 Burton, #38 Gilliland, #32 Bell, #36 Yeley, #33 Leicht DNQs: #30 Stremme, #49 Leffler, #19 Bliss, #37 Blaney, #79 Biers 271. Mr X posted: 10.02.2012 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are my up to date standings with my points system, much earlier this week. The top 15 without the chase, and the top 13 with the chase. These standings are as of Dover on this previous Sunday, those looking for Loudon's standings can find them on this very comments page, comment #29, those of you looking to find how my system works can find it on the Watkins Glen cup race comments page, comment #272. Top 15 as of NHMS-Race #28 without Chase Driver-Points Total-Bonus Points-(Difference) 1. Jimmie Johnson-32549-725-(Leader) 2. Brad Keselowski-31806-318-(-743) 3. Dale Earnhardt Jr.-31294-258-(-1255) 4. Greg Biffle-31138-362-(-1411) 5. Denny Hamlin-30711-623-(-1838) 6. Clint Bowyer-30261-169-(-2288) 7. Matt Kenseth-29941-289-(-2608) 8. Martin Truex Jr.-29632-252-(-2917) 9. Tony Stewart-28736-280-(-3813) 10. Kevin Harvick-28589-117-(-3960) 11. Kasey Kahne-28209-121-(-4340) 12. Kyle Busch-27384-588-(-5165) 13. Jeff Gordon-27237-193-(-5312) 14. Carl Edwards-25630-106-(-6919) 15. Ryan Newman-25625-9-(-6924) Top 13 as of NHMS-Race #28 with Chase Driver-Points Total-Bonus Points-(Difference) 1. Brad Keselowski-44657-57-(Leader) 2. Jimmie Johnson-44449-129-(-208) 3. Denny Hamlin-43979-127-(-678) 4. Clint Bowyer-43564-4-(-1093) 5. Kasey Kahne-43445-1-(-1212) 6. Tony Stewart-43327-23-(-1330) 7. Dale Earnhardt Jr.-43128-0-(-1529) 8. Martin Truex Jr.-43080-0-(-1577) 9. Kyle Busch-43056-156-(-1601) 10. Kevin Harvick-42888-0-(-1769) 11. Greg Biffle-42688-0-(-1969) 12. Matt Kenseth-42066-2-(-2591) 13. Jeff Gordon-27237-193-(-17420) Keep in mind that under this system Jeff missed the chase and Kyle made it in. All of the bonus points you see under the chase standings are after the first chase race, with the exception of Jeff Gordon. If Jeff made the chase as the 2nd Wild Card in 12th he would be sitting 9th in points currently with 43064-4-(-1593). If Kyle missed the chase he would be sitting 13th with 27384-588-(-17273). 272. ch posted: 10.02.2012 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't really start to follow qualifying procedure until the time the top 35 rule came into play, so I have a question about the provisional usage. Would the team's being allowed to use a provisional be based on purely owner's points rankings or on attempts with ties being broken by owner's points? And how many provisionals did a team have? 273. 10andJoe posted: 10.03.2012 - 5:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Would the team's being allowed to use a provisional be based on purely owner's points rankings or on attempts with ties being broken by owner's points? And how many provisionals did a team have? Purely owners' points. Attempts only came into play in the event of rainouts. The way the system worked, as I recall, was that each team started with four provisionals. (Some indications are that it was /all/ teams that had made an attempt, others, only the top 45 in owners points; pre-1997, it was only the top 40). After every six race attempts another provisional is earned. In the event of 43 or fewer cars attempting a race, provisionals were not charged. If the field was still short after allocating provisionals but there were still cars available, the field was filled by time. Pre-1997, the past champion's provisional was left unfilled if no past champion needed it; from 1997 onwards, if no past champion filled the spot, the provisional went to the next team in owners points. (Note that in the Truck Series only four provisionals were ever allocated; if a past champion needed a provisional, they started 36th, not 37th.) 274. cjs3872 posted: 10.03.2012 - 7:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10andJoe, the way the provisional system worked most recently prior to 2005 was that any team currently in the top 25 in owner points had unlimited provisionals, but once they dropped out of the top 25, they got a maximum of six until a certain point in the season, then they got one more until they reached another certain point, where they got their last. So a team out of the top 25 got a maximum of eight provisionals in any season, but the seventh and eighth didn't come until later in the season. This really came into play at the end of Darrell Waltrip's career, when he had trouble making just about any race on a track one mile or longer in length. If they go back to the pre-2005 provisional system, the two races that, without a doubt, would benefit the most, would be the two qualifying races for the Daytona 500, becaue those races would actually mean something again. When NASCAR went to the top 35, or what I call the exemption rule, the qualifying races at Daytona lost almost all meaning, but if they do indeed go back to the old system, those races would regain their importance in setting the field for the Daytona 500. And if they do that, the old rule used to be that anyone that qualified in the top 20, or were in the top 20 in owner points from the previous season, were almost guaranteed to start in the Daytona 500, though that wasn't always the case, because a big wreck could really shake up things, and let undeserving cars into the race, and cause more deserving cars to fail to qualify. Let's not forget that Alan Kulwicki needed a provisional to make the Daytona 500 the year he won the championship (1992) because of all the wrecks that occurred in the qualifying races. In a normal year, he would have qualified on his time easily, but eight of the ten cars that had to fall back on their speed were in crashes in one of the qualifying races. Had a couple other cars had trouble, Kulwicki might not have made that Daytona 500, in which he finished fourth. In other words, going back to the old rules, which I think is long overdue (in fact, they shohld never have been changed), could have some strange results come SpeedWeeks. 275. NicoRosbergFan posted: 10.03.2012 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SPEED's getting turned into the FOX equivalent of NBCSN at the end of the year?! 276. Paul posted: 10.03.2012 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The pre-2005 Daytona 500 qualifying rules were as follows: - Positions 1-2 were the fastest two cars in qualifying. - Positions 3-30 were the top 14 finishers from each Gatorade Duel not already locked in via the front row qualifying positions made the field. - Positions 31-36 ('98''03), 31-38 ('95''97, '04), or 31-40 ('76-'94) were the fastest cars from qualifying which did not advance from the qualifying races. - Positions 37-42 ('98-'03), 39-42 ('95-'97, '04), or 41-42 ('76-'94) were the cars highest in owner points not already locked into the field. - Position 43 was reserved for a past champion not already locked into the field. If there is no eligible past champion, then it went to the next highest car in owner points not already in the field. Of course, if it was a short field, then every car would make the race and this procedure would merely set the field. Later today, I'll go through the past Daytona 500 and some other races this season showing how qualifying would have looked under the 2004 rules. 277. Paul posted: 10.03.2012 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Forgot to mention that the PCP wasn't created until '96. NRF, there's been rumblings about this for quite some time. For me, this is almost like good riddance because although SPEED provides more NASCAR coverage than any other network, their programming has been so pitiful the past couple years that I don't care that they're getting rebranded. Speaking of NBC Sports, there's talk that they might be interested in getting the Nationwide and maybe the Truck Series when the current tv contracts expire after 2014. I hope they do because although Bob Jenkins has retired, their racing coverage is very good and taken seriously by the network. Plus, maybe they can resurrect th Nationwide Series after six years of suckage by ESPN. 278. cjs3872 posted: 10.03.2012 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, the champion's provisional was added in 1990, not 1996 as you mentioned. 279. Paul posted: 10.03.2012 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's how the lineup for the 2012 Daytona 500 would have looked under the 2004 qualifying rules: [FRONT ROW CITERIA] 1. Carl Edwards 2. Greg Biffle [GATORADE DUEL CRITERIA] 3. Tony Stewart 4. Matt Kenseth 5. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 6. Regan Smith 7. Marcos Ambrose 8. Jimmie Johnson 9. Jeff Burton 10. Elliott Sadler 11. Michael McDowell 12. Joey Logano 13. Kevin Harvick 14. Kyle Busch 15. A.J. Allmendinger 16. Jeff Gordon 17. Robby Gordon 18. Ryan Newman 19. Jamie McMurray 20. Kasey Kahne 21. Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. 22. Mark Martin 23. Trevor Bayne 24. Dave Blaney 25. Brad Keselowski 26. Martin Truex, Jr. 27. David Ragan 28. Kurt Busch 29. Aric Almirola 30. Clint Bowyer [QUALIFYING CRITERIA] 31. Casey Mears 32. Paul Menard 33. Juan Pablo Montoya 34. Tony Raines 35. David Stremme 36. Danica Patrick 37. Kenny Wallace (missed the race in real life) 38. Terry Labonte [OWNER'S POINTS] 39. Denny Hamlin 40. David Reutimann 41. Landon Cassill 42. Bobby Labonte [PAST CHAMPION] 43. Bill Elliott (missed the race in real life) [FAILED TO QUALIFY] 44. David Gilliland (made the race in real life) 45. Joe Nemechek (made the race in real life) 46. Mike Wallace 47. Michael Waltrip 48. Robert Richardson 49. J.J. Yeley 280. Paul posted: 10.03.2012 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoops! You are correct cjs. The rules page I read was a tad incomplete and didn't have the PCP listed under provisional qualifying prior to '96. Btw, since it was created in 1990, I'm guessing that it was as a result of Richard Petty failing to qualify four times in '89? 281. Schroeder51 posted: 10.03.2012 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wasn't the past champion's provisional created in response to Richard Petty having trouble qualifying for races in 1989? 282. Paul posted: 10.03.2012 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I almost forgot. David Reutimann and Bobby Labonte would have each been charged a provisional as they were slower than Waltrip and Nemechek who would have missed the race. Also, Bill Elliott would have been charged a past champion's provisional. 283. Talon64 posted: 10.03.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "SPEED's getting turned into the FOX equivalent of NBCSN at the end of the year?!" Some or most of SPEED's current NASCAR/racing programming would probably still live on with Fox Sports One. There were rumors that Fuel would become what SPEED is now with everything moving over, but things like Lucas Oil/WoO dirt racing and AMA Motocross and Supercross might end up there (just my baseless speculation). But muddying everything it up is NBC/NBCSN getting in on the negotiations with ABC/ESPN over the TV deal, with the 2nd half of the Cup schedule and the Nationwide Series on the line. Maybe even the Truck Series if that doesn't end up on FSO. If FSO keeps it's Cup & Nationwide practice/qualifying and the Truck Series and F1, and replaces all their reality/lifestyle shit with sports then I don't much to complain about. Goodbye Pinks, hello college football and MLB! 284. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.03.2012 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i hope nbc sports doesn't get any nascar races, i don't get that channel :( 285. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 10.03.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Indycar is on the NBCSN, if NASCAR gets on NBC/NBCSN then Indycar (IMHO) is going to be screwed. NASCAR is still large and in charge in terms of TV ratings and attiendence. they aren't going to win heads up, besides, some indycar fans are NASCAR fans. FOX is going (IMHO) to get atleast half the season, because TNT isn't re-uping (i honestly wounder why they aren't re-uping, unless NASCAR is asking for too much or they really don't care anymore). ABC/ ESPN and NBC/NBCSN are going into a bidding war for the rest of the races. NASCAR is *STILL* going to have to take a discount on this TV deal. 3.5 billion dollars was the last deal amount, it isn't going to be that much for sure. 286. David posted: 10.03.2012 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The head of Toyota Racing Development is upset with Kyle Busch's latest tirade. http://www.sbnation.com/nascar/2012/10/3/3451006/kyle-busch-nascar-trd-lee-white-joe-gibbs-racing-toyota-2012 287. ch posted: 10.03.2012 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Either way, I believe the network change doesn't go into effect until 2014. 288. Talon64 posted: 10.03.2012 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "FOX is going (IMHO) to get atleast half the season, because TNT isn't re-uping (i honestly wounder why they aren't re-uping, unless NASCAR is asking for too much or they really don't care anymore). ABC/ ESPN and NBC/NBCSN are going into a bidding war for the rest of the races. NASCAR is *STILL* going to have to take a discount on this TV deal. 3.5 billion dollars was the last deal amount, it isn't going to be that much for sure." I've heard that TNT actually wants more races, but maybe it's a case of them getting more of pulling out if they don't get them. I wouldn't mind 12 on Fox, 12 on TNT/NBCSC and 12 on ESPN. Equal three way bout to decide who has the best (or really, who has the worst) broadcasts! BTW the result will depend on their level of focus on Danica Patrick. 289. Paul posted: 10.03.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Correct ch. But the earlier these contracts get done with, the easier the transition for these networks to or from NASCAR coverage will be. I hope NBC Sports does get ESPN's races because after seeing the damage ESPN has done at covering the Nationwide Series and the final half of the Cup schedule the last five years, they don't deserve to get more races. Now obviously, knowing NASCAR, they're going to look at the bidding price and that's about it, but I don't understand why ESPN would want to re-sign their contract with NASCAR. They only devote 30 minutes a day to NASCAR (and often times they preempt that show) and they've shown with their lack of coverage on SportsCenter (you know, the show that's entirely devoted to showing highlights of, well, sports?!) and other sports shows that I don't know why they would want it back. They clearly don't care about NASCAR, so why bother? I realize that more people have ESPN than NBC Sports (fortunately, I have both), but I just want the bleeding to stop in two years. There's a good chance TNT won't renew their deal with NASCAR (in fact, I've heard that Fox is trying to obtain TNT's six races in time for next season), and if we lose ESPN too, then we're down to just one network with bad racing coverage (and we all know Fox isn't going anywhere). 290. Paul posted: 10.03.2012 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "BTW the result will depend on their level of focus on Danica Patrick." TNT had lousy coverage this year, largely because of their love of commercials and because Adam Alexander couldn't call a race if his bald head depended on it, but it was refreshing going six weeks without one mention of Danica. I wonder if GoDaddy knew that going in that she wouldn't be the star of the show, and selected only Fox and ESPN races for her to be in. Wally and Kyle don't really give a shit about anybody and are arguably the two most critical racing analysts today, so they (especially Wally) would have been quick to bring up her deficiencies. On the other hand, D.W. likes her a lot (probably because she reminds him of Michael, only with less personality) and ESPN...'nuff said. 291. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 10.03.2012 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As it is, I think Nascar is getting too saturated with its television coverage. It's becoming even worse with social media updates. I think that could be part in the decline of ratings. People are hearing so much in Nascar from Monday until Saturday. By the time Sunday rolls around, everyone is burned out. I actually think NBCSN would be a good fit with Nascar. It's unfortunate that Bob Jenkins had to retire due to his wife's health concerns, because he would be the ideal fit to be the lead commentator. I wouldn't mind having Wally Dallenbach on the crew, but who would be the other two? I can tolerate Kyle Petty, but not during any part of the race. Please, limit him to pre-race shows only. Would Eli Gold give up Alabama football to do races? If so, he would be the first choice. Maybe they can lure Ricky Craven away from ESPN? Ricky's very articulate, but a little on the boring side. I think Eli, Wally and Ricky could make a formidable team, though. 292. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.04.2012 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle has got to learn, and he has got to learn quick, that he has got to grow up. He cannot afford to alienate a 3rd team. He is gonna end up like his brother if this keeps up. And that is a shame. As much as I can't stand those two, it is better for the sport having two really talented in good cars and a huge factor week in and week out provide they don't embarrass themselves and their associates at the same rate. I've always felt Kyle is a better overall person than his brother, which I still do. I also thought he would actually change eventually, something Kurt never has done and never will. I am beginning to doubt that. 293. Sean posted: 10.04.2012 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Btw, since it was created in 1990, I'm guessing that it was as a result of Richard Petty failing to qualify four times in '89?" I thought it was created in 1991, not 1990, and I thought it was a reaction to Darrell Waltrip leaving Hendrick when he was the most popular driver and started his own team (with no provisionals) in '91. Richard Petty was just a side-benefit... "Would Eli Gold give up Alabama football to do races? If so, he would be the first choice." Wow? You think Kyle's bad and Eli's good? I always thought Eli Gold was the worst announcer in the "glory days" and was ridiculously pretentious - a huge step down from Mike Joy who was then cool but is now a sellout since he's been seemingly influenced by DW and Larry Mac. He always listed a driver's hometown when mentioning a driver, even if it didn't fit ("and here we have Newburgh, Maine's Ricky Craven making a pass on St. Louis, Missouri's Kenny Wallace"), he always said things like "if you're a Gary Bradberry fan, he just left the garage to return to the track" for drivers who had no fans. Not to mention when he would have rather brain-dead conversations with country stars and politicians on TNN broadcasts DURING THE RACE. Now, I'm not going to say he was bad for radio but I always felt he was a REALLY bad TV anchor (for a different reason than Marty Reid is) and I didn't miss TNN coverage one iota. Kyle Petty is nice and laid back just like Benny Parsons before him... Not flaming you or anything, but I've just never heard anyone who thought Eli was better than Kyle before. Eli was responsible for TNN's coverage turning to crap in my view. "And that is a shame. As much as I can't stand those two, it is better for the sport having two really talented in good cars and a huge factor week in and week out provide they don't embarrass themselves and their associates at the same rate." Me too. I don't agree at all with cjs3872 when he writes that the Busch brothers are too disrespectful to deserve marquee rides. What's the alternative? Having somebody just as disrespectful like Harvick, Edwards, or Hamlin in the rides (pretty much all the Gen-X/Gen-Y drivers are equally bad in my opinion)? The only difference is that those guys have better social skills and they're able to kiss enough people's asses to convince people that somehow they're nice guys. Having a complete bust like Joey Logano in a car like that instead? I want the best drivers for the best rides, while the sponsors seem to want the drivers who are best able to PRETEND they are nice even if they're not (that explains the entirety of Harvick's career). I really do think Kyle Busch will mellow out. He's not even thirty yet, and it took that long for other drivers to mellow out in the past (Darrell Waltrip, for instance, not that I think Kyle will achieve THAT level of results, but still...) 294. cjs3872 posted: 10.04.2012 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A third team, DSFF? Do you know something I don't, because we know he (Kyle Busch) alienated Hendrick Motorsports, but I don't know of any other team he's been with other than Hendrick and Gibbs. And I've always felt that Kurt has always had a better capacity than Kyle of turning his attitude around. Kyle's a punk, and always has been. You can even see when he walks that he has an attitude problem. Kurt's problem is different. I think it may part of some kind of disorder, or as Ryan Newman may have suggested earlier this season, a possible drug problem. And remember that Ryan and Kurt were teammates for three years. And Sean, it's not that I don't think the Busch brothers don't deserve top rides. Their records show otherwise. That's why Richard Childress was trying to get sponsorship to restart a fourth team for Kurt until just recently. It's just that for every step they take forward, they take five steps backward, and car owners today are more hesitant to take a chance on volatile drivers like the Busch brothers. And as for compariing them to Carl Edwards, Kevin Harvick, and Denny Hamlin in that regard, Edwards and Harvick have actually calmed it down quite a bit in the last couple of years, and I never regarded Hamlin in that fashion at all. I just think that Hamlin is incapable of being a team leader, like the other two you mentioned. And also, radio guys hardly ever make good TV guys. It's a fact of life. Broadcasting on radio and broadcasting on TV are two completely different arts. On radio, you're trying to paint a picture and decsribe what's going on. But on TV, the picture's already there. For a radio guy to become good at TV is a rare thing. Guys like Curt Gowdy, Vin Scully, Pat Summerall, and Dick Enberg were very good at that, but they're the exception, not the rule. And Chick Hearn always simulcasted Lakers games on TV and radio, so he was painting a picture for those on radio, while describing for those watching on TV in an entertaining style. But they were a rare breed. And it's almost impossible for someone that broascasts races on radio to do them that well on TV. That's one reason why Eli Gold didn't work for ESPN longer, and why Barney Hall never did try to become a TV broadcaster. Even Ken Squier had to tone it down after a while. If you watch the early CBS Daytona 500s, Squier called the race as he woul on radio, but after a while h realized that he didn't have to do it that way, so he toned it down in the early 80s, because he didn't have to be as bombastic on TV as he had to be on radio. And I always thought Bob Jenkins was too bland for TV. Of the radio guys that moved to TV among racing commentators, Paul Page was probably the best (and is, considering he's still an active commetator). And I don't think any of the guys doing play-by-play today are very good. They just don't seem to care that much about the participants, and seem to have a hard time calling the action. Give me Jim McKay, Keith Jackson, Bill Flemming, Jim Lampley, and Ken Squier over any of these guys today. Heck, even Larry Nuber was better than any of these guys today. 295. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.04.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Miguel Cabrera of the Detroit Tigers won the Triple Crown, the first time that has happened since 1967. When Brad K was asked on Twitter what the triple crown of NASCAR is, he said, in his opinion, it would be winning the Cup, the Daytona 500, and the Brickyard 400. I disagree, to me it should be a season long deal, not based on two races (and yes I know the 10 race championship deal currently contradicts that a bit, but chase champs should count imo). To me the triple crown would be winning the championship, winning the most races, and leading the most laps in a season. Any thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Can we have a list of "triple crown" winners under my criteria. I know Dale did it twice ('87, '90) as did Jeff ('95, '01). 296. 18fan posted: 10.04.2012 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I think you could create two separate Triple Crowns in NASCAR. The season-long one like you mentioned and then one for winning the biggest races. 297. Paul posted: 10.04.2012 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, under your criteria, here's a list of all Triple Crown winners in each of NASCAR's three National series: SPRINT CUP: 1952: Tim Flock [tied Herb Thomas for most wins] 1955: Tim Flock (2) 1959: Lee Petty 1966: David Pearson 1967: Richard Petty 1971: Richard Petty (2) 1975: Richard Petty (3) 1977: Cale Yarborough 1978: Cale Yarborough (2) 1981: Darrell Waltrip 1982: Darrell Waltrip (2) 1987: Dale Earnhardt 1990: Dale Earnhardt (2) 1995: Jeff Gordon 2001: Jeff Gordon (2) 2009: Jimmie Johnson Pretty elite group right there. Gordon lost out on "most laps led" in his great '98 season to Mark Martin by 13 laps. I noticed that Glen Wood led the series in laps led by almost 200 laps, despite only running 9 of 44 races (second place was Fireball Roberts, who also only ran 9 races). Last year, Kyle Busch led the series in laps led by over 300 laps, despite being parked for a race and finishing last in the Chase (can someone say "meltdown"?) NATIONWIDE: 1983: Sam Ard 1984: Sam Ard (2) [tied Jack Ingram for most wins] 1987: Larry Pearson 1989: Rob Moroso 1990: Chuck Bown 1998: Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 2000: Jeff Green 2001: Kevin Harvick [tied Greg Biffle for most wins] 2006: Kevin Harvick (2) 2009: Kyle Busch TRUCK: 1995: Mike Skinner 1998: Ron Hornaday 2000: Greg Biffle Cup drivers have prevented Nationwide regulars from winning since about 2005 and Truck regulars since 2009. If James Buescher wins the Truck championship, as he currently stands with wins and laps led, he'll be a Triple Crown winner this year. I don't think we'll see a Nationwide Triple Crown this year, but Stenhouse is the closest, sitting 2nd in points, two wins and 76 laps led behind Logano. 298. Paul posted: 10.04.2012 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AARP and the AARP Foundation have agreed to sponsor Jeff Gordon and HMS through the 2014 season, a similar deal that the Drive to End Hunger campaign signed last year. As it stands, Gordon has a "life time" contract with HMS and says he will drive at least through 2013. This contract suggests Jeff will continue driving through 2014 as well. 299. 10andJoe posted: 10.04.2012 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The past champion's provisional was indeed created in (panicked) response to Richard Petty failing to qualify. I always enjoyed Eli Gold, actually. Much better than Ken Squier, IMHO. Also, be careful who you say has no fans. Seeing as this post is, in fact, being typed by one of Bradberry's. 300. Eric posted: 10.04.2012 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You forgot that Kyle Busch actually was a part time Truck series driver for Jack Roush back in 2001 when he was 16 years old. Kyle actually had a development contract with Roush originally matter of fact because Kurt at the time claimed Kyle was even more talented than he was. This happened at a time when NASCAR didn't have a rule what age you could be entered a truck series, Nationwide series, or Cup series race at any age since their was no age limit. NASCAR created an age limit for Trucks, Nationwide, and cup cars for the 2002 season because what happened to Kyle at California Speedway in 2001. CART and the truck series raced at California Motor Speedway during the same weekend. The track promoters didn't allow Kyle to race that Weekend because CART's race was sponsored by a tobacco company and CART Officials told the promoters at the time didn't want Kyle at the track because he was underage despite being a NASCAR driver, not a CART driver. Kyle signed with Hendrick in 2003, but Jack probably has some bad blood with Kyle since signed with Hendrick and how that development contract at Roush Racing ended. When Richard Childress button up Kyle, Roush made a comment at the time and had no problem with Richard beating up Kyle. 301. Eric posted: 10.04.2012 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, The other reason Jack gave Kyle a driver development contract at such young age in 2001 was based on what Kyle did from 1999 to 2001 in the legend series. Kyle won over 65 races in the legend series from the time he was 14 years to when he was 16 years old. Kyle was very advanced for a driver for his age. He almost won a truck race at Chicago Motor Speedway when was 16 years old matter of fact for Roush before he ran out of fuel. 302. cjs3872 posted: 10.05.2012 - 1:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, I was responding to DSFF's comments about Kyle Busch possibly alienating a third team. I knew that Kyle drove for Roush in the Truck series, but he never alienated Roush in his time there. It was when he was driving for Roush in the Truck Series that NASCAR passed the rule raising the age minimum for cpmpeting in a national touring series from 16 to 18, which cost him his ride at Roush, because Hendrick signed him as a development driver about a year later. That's why I was a bit miffed at DSFF's comment about Kyle possibly alienating a third team. I knew he had driven for Roush, but he was forced out of that ride by NASCAR, not by anything he did there. So Gibbs would be the second team he appears to be alienating, not the third. 303. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What I was referring to is that, after being forced out of the Trucks by NASCAR, he ran a season of ASA for Roush. Then, when it came time to sign the long term deal, they couldn't agree to terms. If I understand right, Kyle was uncomfortable with the number of years Jack wanted hi to sign for. So he went to Jack's (at the time) arch rival HMS (Toyota wasn't in the picture yet). This infuriated Jack, and as vengeful as that son of a bitch is, his organization is not an option. As for assessing blame in that situation, it is hard to give the benefit of the doubt to either consideering each's propensity to torch every bridge in sight (does Mark ever even talk about Jack anymore? He does Rick). 304. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What I was referring to is that, after being forced out of the Trucks by NASCAR, he ran a season of ASA for Roush. Then, when it came time to sign the long term deal, they couldn't agree to terms. If I understand right, Kyle was uncomfortable with the number of years Jack wanted hi to sign for. So he went to Jack's (at the time) arch rival HMS (Toyota wasn't in the picture yet). This infuriated Jack, and as vengeful as that son of a bitch is, his organization is not an option. As for assessing blame in that situation, it is hard to give the benefit of the doubt to either consideering each's propensity to torch every bridge in sight (does Mark ever even talk about Jack anymore? He does Rick). 305. cjs3872 posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, that's Roush's problem, not Kyle Busch's. Hendrick just outsmarted everyone else on that one, as usual. And as for what you say about Mark talking to Rick Hendrick and not necessarily Jack Roush, I understand that, when Jeff Gordon alan Gustafson were going through their problems earlier this year, with one thing after another happening to them, Mark was one of the first non-HMS guys that tried to raise their spirits. 306. David posted: 10.05.2012 - 10:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) FYI: David Stremme and the #30 team plans to run the full distance this weekend. 307. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.05.2012 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael McDowell will also run the full race this week. and with timmy hill running a second car for NEMCO, it's possible joe nemechek could run the full race this week as well. the #37 of j.j. yeley withdrew so all 43 cars entered will make the field. since starting position doesn't matter anyway qualifying at talladega just got even more pointless than usual. with starting position a non-issue and with no dnq's that might as well just have the drivers draw their starting positions out of a hat. 308. Smiff_99 posted: 10.05.2012 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, looks like my prediction from earlier this week is going to come true. Brad's stated several times this week that he intends to run up front as often as possible.....now we'll just have to wait and see what Jimmie and Denny are gonna do.... 309. Paul posted: 10.05.2012 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I feel kind of bad for Yeley since today is his birthday and this is his "present". In this day and age, I'm happy that no team in either series this weekend will fail to qualify and fall even deeper in the whole. With Stremme, McDowell, and Blaney running the distance, and possibly Richardson (he attempted the full race in the spring) and Nemechek too, there might only be only three start-and-parks this weekend (the #97 of Timmy Hill, the #26 of Josh Wise, and the #33 of Cole Whitt). 310. cjs3872 posted: 10.05.2012 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason why teams that normally start-and-park, such as the #30 of David Stremme, the #98 of Michael McDowell (remember that Talladega was the site of Phil Parsons' only Cup win in 1988), and possibly the #87 of Joe Nemechek may run the full race is this is one race that even those teams had a real shot at winning, particularly Nemechek, who's proven that he can run up front at Daytona and Talladega in his much lower funded Nationwide equipment, because of his vast years of experience. And they also know that if they can avoid the crashes, a top 15-20 is not at all out of the question. Remember that Buddy Arrington once finished third at Talladega, easily the best run of his career. And I expect Johnson to run in the back all day, if his engine lasts. I think engine attrition could be a big factor for the Chevrolets. That's been a big problem for them all year at the plate tracks with the water pressure rules what they currently are. For instance, three Chevrolets, including Johnson's, suffered engine failures at the spring Talladega race in the first 200 miles, and the Chevrolets weren't able to draft effectively at all. I expect Hamlin to run up front and in the back, depending on how the race runs, and how his pit stops go. As for Johnson's teammates, I expect Dale, Jr. to run up front and Jeff Gordon to join Johnson in the back, though I don't know what Kasey Kahne will do. If I had to venture a guess, he'll just take it as the race goes along, much like I expect Hamlin to do. However, if there's a big wreck early, as has happened in the past, that might change the tactics of the key drivers not involved. 311. Paul posted: 10.05.2012 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, it's funny you mention Buddy Arrington as I spent some time last night looking at his page and, more specifically, the '79 Winston 500. Reading about that race, it sounds like He was leading entering green flag pit stops and, since he was running up front, got Richard Petty's pit crew to do his pit stops. Unfortunately, Buddy drove off with the gas can still attached to the car, and thus was given the black flag for leaving pit road with pit equipment. He was leading at the time and was on pace for his first (and only) lead lap finish, but wound up finishing two laps down in 3rd place, getting beat out by Bobby Allison and Darrell Waltrip, and managed to beat Richard Petty (the man who lent him his pit crew during that pit stop and went on to win the title) by a lap. Since he lost two laps, it's possible that he would have lost a lap anyways since one lap at Talladega, even without restrictor plates, is still fairly close to 50-second lap times and the process of going down pit road and getting back up to speed would have taken about the same amount of time. Still, it would have been intriguing, to say the least, had Buddy not been black flagged and at least had a shot at beating Bobby Allison at his home track. Lennie Pond won at Talladega a year earlier and Ron Bouchard won two years after, so even without restrictor plates, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Buddy could have won that race. 312. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.05.2012 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well cjs, if anyone can relate to people going through miserable luck, it is Mark Martin! 313. cjs3872 posted: 10.05.2012 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes DSFF, but I think even Martin's bad luck pales in comparison to all that plagued Gordon this season. The only thing that Gordon didn't seem to run into the first half of the year was a swarm of locusts. Fortunately for him, his luck has improved, as his five top threes the last six races proves, though amazingly, none of those top threes have resulted in a win. The reason for that is that, for some reason, he still can't get to the lead. I believe that good fortune ends, at least temporarily this week, because the Chevrolets can't draft, or they'll overheat. That's one big reason you'll see Johnson and probably Gordon, and maybe even Kahne run in the back, though Kahne may try to run up front some, as well. The other is the propensity for the big wreck to strike, even among the leaders. So for Jimmie Johnson and others, this will probably be a 50-mile race instead of a 500-mile race. 314. Paul posted: 10.05.2012 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Running in the back won Tony Stewart the Pepsi 400 (for me, that's what that race will always be called) this year. If I remember correctly, he dropped to the back because his engine was running hot (not surprised considering the Chevys have had terrible restrictor plate performances this year overall) and maintained pace by drafting with David Ragan and David Gilliland deep in the field. That allowed him to dodge the big wreck near pit road that sadly ended Bill Elliott's great run and sent JJ head-on into the inside wall. Then with about 10 laps to go and avoiding yet another wreck triggered by Kurt Busch losing patience and trying to pass Trevor Bayne in a lane that wasn't there (though I can't blame him for trying because nothing was happening for most of the race), he made his way to the front and restarted 2nd on that G-W-C finish. Tandem drafting with his teammate from another team Kasey Kahne, they were neck-and-neck with Kenseth/Biffle coming down the backstretch on the final lap when both Kahne and Biffle had to back off to cool their engines. Because the Chevys still have a horsepower advantage over the Fords down the straightaways, Stewart was able to pass Kenseth and be in front of the inevitable last lap wreck. So even with tandem drafting not having as big an impact as it did in 2011, Stewart played the game perfectly. If JJ or Gordon don't have engine issues and/or accidents like they have in each of the last three RP tracks, I could see them doing this as well. One thing I would like to see is how strong the Roush Fords are considering how strong they've been at Daytona and Talladega. If they aren't as dominant this weekend, Kenseth specifically, then it'll be obvious that something is up at that team. 315. Paul posted: 10.05.2012 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Travis Kvapil and Casey Mears fastest in Cup practice today. Hmmm... Sadly, the Nationwide Series won't be returning to Montreal next season. I hate this not only because I love road course racing and personally love that track, but those Montreal fans are just great. You don't hear roars from the crowd at Michigan, Chicago, or Loudon (tracks close to Canada) like you do at Montreal, and that track will be missed. Hopefully Mosport Park is added to the Truck schedule next year so that there will be at least one Canadian track on the circuit. 316. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 10.05.2012 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ The promoter pulled the plug on the deal, not NASCAR. NASCAR wants to be there, but the people at the track (and government) have a history of screwing around with governing bodies on sanctioning fees and what not. Even the FIA didn't race there (i think) for a year because of what the people at the track are doing. 317. Baker posted: 10.05.2012 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch's hard luck is more heartbreaking than Jeff Gordon's hard luck this year because when it is happening to Busch he is a legit threat to win the race whereas Gordon was a threat for Top 10s and Top 5s. Gordon also go in the chase and Busch didn't. Kyle Busch's talent driving a race car is going for not because the lack of reliabilty in the Gibbs equipment(Its only a matter of time before mechanical problems eliminate Denny), his team making dumb calls(Richmond) and even Nascar itself costing him wins(Watkins Glen). All that I would be very heated toward my engine builders and team too. With that being said Kyle needs to learn to keep his mouth shut when the media is listening or can listen. He needs to know when to let his frustration out and that is after the fact(usually with a cooler head) and talk to the team behind closed doors. I mean come on the team wants to win too and they know they have one of the most talented drivers in all racing they are going to listen. 318. cjs3872 posted: 10.05.2012 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with the sentiment that Kyle Busch has every right to be upset with what's happened to him this year regarding motors, and that combined with the problems that Gibbs had last year make me wonder it Toyota is, in fact, using lighter parts which make more horsepower, but are by their very nature, more fragile. After all, who breaks an engine during a caution period, yet it happened to Busch in three races in a row during June. I tihnk he even had a right to confront the people at TRD, but to do it the way he did is a typically classless move by the biggest punk the sport's ever seen, in my book. But it makes me wonder if Toyota is on as solid a footing as we think, or is Gibbs doing things to the Toyota engines that they're not supposed to do, because MWR doesn't seem to be having the same problems as JGR is having. That tells me that JGR may be doing things to those engines that they shouldn't be doing, which in turn, makes them more fragile. 319. NicoRosbergFan posted: 10.05.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, the difference is that MWR builds their own engines. Gibbs has TRD, but MWR has homemade engines, so it is definitely something in Gibbs because other teams have TRD, but not those problems. 320. Eric posted: 10.05.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, This really isn't on NASCAR. NASCAR wanted to go back there, but it was the promoter. Octane Management, the promoters of Montreal declared bankruptcy in September 24th. The person in change of Octane Management only wanted a cup date there and if only a Nationwide date is allowed, He only wanted the Nationwide race to start 9 in the morning on Sunday. That meant NASCAR was put in a bad position by the Promoter and it really was the promoter who pull the plug. The thing is that financial troubled promoter also lost the IndyCar race in Edmonton. 321. Paul posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru and Eric, I never blamed NASCAR for losing Montreal from it's 2013 schedule, though I can see how it may have sounded that way with how I described it to lesser tracks near Canada. I only caught the text on the screen saying it was off the schedule next year. 322. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Leave it to the MLB umps. Every postseason. Just once I want them to go through a postseason without some unbelievably awful call being made. 323. cjs3872 posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I thought that MWR also used TRD engines. And by the way, with Talladega coming up, I can't help but think about what happened a few minutes ago in the Cardinals-Braves Wild Card game with bottles and dangerous things being thrown on to the field, which caused a 15-20 minute delay. The Braves and their fans should have been threatened with forfeiture of the game. I just bring that up with Talladega coming up, and the history of that happening there, especially with Jeff Gordon's wins in the 2004 and 2007 spring races, the first coming a controversial, but correct call that resulted in the GWC coming to the Nationwide and Cup Series later that year, and the second of those ugly incidents coming when Gordon won at Talladega to move ahead of Dale Earnhardt, Sr. on the all-time wins list on Dale, Sr.'s birthday. 324. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gonna miss Chipper :( The Braves fans did what they had to do. Is it dangerous? Yes. But at some point MLB has to find officials who don't have their heads stuck up their own ass. Hard to keep supporting a sport that can't get its own rules right, and will put rules enforcers out there who can even think about making such a shit call. Kinda like NASCAR actually. 325. Paul posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MWR gets their engines from TRD. The reason why JGR has experienced more engine failures and issues this year might have to do with JGR's involvement in their TRD engines, or may it's just the way their drivers are driving. If Kyle or Denny take their foot off the accelerator at any point in that final green flag run at Dover, maybe they end up winning that race. Don't blame the engine supplier just because you weren't smart enough to save fuel. Kyle found yet another way to lose and found yet another scapegoat to blame for his failure. What a punk. I remember that Talladega race from '04 pretty well despite being only 11 years old then. As a Gordon fan, I was glad that they didn't go back to green because Junior had the dominant car and most likely would have passed Jeff on the last lap. But still, c'mon Junior Nation. We already trash you for being ignorant sheep for following a driver who's whole career is just one giant underachievement, but for you to take that trash and throw it all over the track that your driver's father dominated for years, that's just unacceptable. It reminded me of an incident with Cleveland Browns fans (another fanbase who's team will never win a championship) throwing beer bottles onto the field in a game against the Jaguars in '01. Yeah, your team lost, but don't throw crap all over the field/track. It's disrespectful to the people running the venue and it gives a bad name to your team's fanbase. But thanks for making Gordon out as the babyface, both in '04 and '07. You're doing a great job at (in the NASCAR media's words) keeping Dale's legacy alive those two days. Keep up the good work. 326. Paul posted: 10.05.2012 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A sport is only as strong as its leader. Since NASCAR and MLB have two incompetent people running their respective sports, it's no surprise that fans are becoming enraged with all the bad calls and decisions made over the past decade or so. I can understand why fans would start throwing trash onto the field since it's the perfect metaphor for baseball's management these days, but I still don't like it because it makes the fans come off as second-rate. That being said, hopefully MLB looks into this and does something about it to avoid this from happening again, because it is a black eye for both the sport and the team. Btw, I'm not at a tv right now and haven't seen the play, but going by what you guys have been saying and seeing this happen in the past, I have somewhat of an idea as to what's going on. 327. 1995 Subaru WRX Sti posted: 10.05.2012 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the fans throw crap on field of play, not ONLY does it make the people who run it, partcipate in it and maintain it look bad, it makes the fans look bad as a whole. I've said this before and i'll say it again, NASCAR fans have a history of throwing stuff on track and EVERYONE wounders why NASCAR is continusly sterotyped by the general masses, i'll let you people figure it out. 328. cjs3872 posted: 10.05.2012 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as these incidents where fans throw objects on the playing surace, all I can ask is, where is Howard Cosell? He always called that as it was, and is, which is a total disgrace to the sport, the host franchise, the team's true fan base, and even the city where the event is being held. And DSFF, you don't do what the Braves "fans" did, because that endangers everyone on the playing surface, from the umpires to the players that had nothing to do with what happened. But then again, the ugliest baseball game in modern history occurred in Atlanta in 1984 between the Braves and the San Diego Padres, and the fans did get involved in more than one of the skirmishes on that horrible night. And Paul, I thought MWR got their engines from TRD, so thanks. And what you say about the fuel situation, they were short by so much that they couldn't have possibly saved enough fuel to make it to the end. As Andy Petree, who worked with one of the best ever at saving fuel in Harry Gant, noted, if you're seven to ten laps short on fuel, as the Gibbs cars were, it wouldn't make any sense to try to save fuel when you know you can't make it. You just run as hard as you can. But the problem with the Gibbs cars in saving fuel is twofold. First, they have aggressive drivers in Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch, so they get among the worst mileage on the circuit. As any longtime fan would know, when Bobby Labonte drove for Gibbs, they got the best mileage on the circuit, and Labonte stole several of his 21 wins that way. But Tony Stewart got terrible fuel mileage because he was too aggresive on the throttle. Also, the Toyota engines generally don't make very good mileage anyway, and the two put together make a toxic combination as far as fuel mileage does. 329. 18fan posted: 10.05.2012 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guys, the call the umpire made wasn't a terrible call. It can easily be argued that it was the correct call by the rulebook definition of the infield fly rule. Not nearly as terrible as NASCAR failing to notice the passes that Austin Dillon made last year at Talladega that were clearly under the yellow line on the backstretch. 330. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.05.2012 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see Brad win at a track he had not finished in the top 10 at before this race. Looks like he is becoming known as a good fuel-saver, kind of like Carl Edwards was doing several years ago when he won 9 races and finished runner-up to Jimmie in points. Talladega does worry me about his chances of a good finish because of the big wrecks that might happen, but remembering he won the Spring race there and him saying he wants to be up front every lap makes me feel better. I know wrecks can happen anywhere on track, but if they happen up front, then a lot of guys running in the back are likely to get caught up in them. Kyle Busch needs to hope he doesn't alienate the wrong people too far. He's had a penchant for doing that his whole career, and if for some reason he alienates himself away from JGR the same way he did with HMS, I really think his days of being a weekly win contender in Cup would be over. I'd be surprised if RCR even considered him, and I don't think Roush or Penske would want to take him on having dealt with his brother in the past. I still can't believe a driver of his caliber only has one win across the three NASCAR Series this year. 331. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.05.2012 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are 2 basic components to the infield fly rule. 1) the infielder has to be able to field the ball in an ordinary manner, basically effortless and 2) the umpire has to immediately signal it is an infield fly rule. Neither was even close. As for the city of Atlanta, I generally pull for their pro teams from there because they are theclosest of any sports to where I live (I even pulled for the Falcons before the Panthers came to town, including their days under the insufferable Jerry Glanville). But it is a filthy, crime ridden city. But if the Chicago White Sox are still allowed to host games after that "Disco Sucks Night" debacle (though in all fairness it was for a noble cause, disco really sucks) then we shouldn't attack cities rights to host sporting events. And yes, I'm sure Howard Cosell would be quick to call all the minorities in attendance "monkeys" or some other racial slur. 332. cjs3872 posted: 10.05.2012 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the point about Cosell was to bring up the way he roundly criticized fans for throwing objects on the field. He did it in the fifth game of the 1976 playoffs of the Royals-Yankees series when objects were being thrown on the field at Yankee Stadium just before Chris Chambliss' series winning HR, and did the same a year later when the same thing happened late in the sixth game of the 1977 World Series when things were being thrown in right field near Reggie Jackson, even after Jackson hit three home runs and had to get to the safety of the dugout to get a batting helmet to finish the game. 333. Paul posted: 10.06.2012 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looking back on that incident, Dave Rogers must have been the luckiest man in the world at that moment. Kyle very easily could have put the blame on his crew chief for not having him pit on that final caution, a move that cost him a Chase berth at Richmond just a few weeks earlier. Instead he puts the blame on TRD, which was good for Dave because he dodged getting yelled at (and managed to mute his radio too to avoid hearing Kyle's profanity rant), but it was uncalled for by Kyle nonetheless. If I were JGR, I'd be looking at different prospects to drive my flagship #18 car for 2014, maybe even before that. Everybody brings up Kyle's talent and how well he can wheel a race car, yet he has almost nothing to show for it other than a bunch of lower series wins. In his eight Sprint Cup seasons, Kyle has only finished better than 10th place in the standings twice, and only once at JGR, and is currently going through his second straight season finishing outside the top 10. Sure he has 24 career wins, 20 of which with JGR, but overall, with the amount of talent that he has (which is among the top 5 in all of NASCAR and one could argue that he is the most talented driver today), he has failed in his NASCAR career. When you're as talented as Kyle is and have only 1 top five points finish to show for it, something is wrong, and being that he's teammates with a guy who's on pace for his 3rd top five points finish in 4 years, I'd say this all falls on the shoulders of Kyle. He has less top five points finishes than the often unfocused Dale Jr. End of discussion. Now, should JGR decide to replace Kyle (which I'm almost positive they won't, which causes me to question how aware Gibbs is of what goes on within his own team), they would have to be willing to sacrifice driving talent in favor of mental stability and integrity. Regan Smith just became available, A.J. Allmendinger is on the market, Elliott Sadler and Brian Vickers will be joining his Nationwide team in 2013, and there's a slew of development drivers in JGR's stable. I however would go a different route. I would look for a competent Cup driver who would help build unity within the team (both with his team and with his teammates) while understanding that he may just be a temporary replacement until a younger driver is ready for Cup. One driver I would go after is David Reutimann. Reuti has shown to be very good with Cup cars, both when it comes to driving and feeding information to his team from the cockpit. Judging by his success at MWR before they started taking people from RCR this past offseason and "magically" put two cars in the Chase, and looking at what he's accomplished at TBR with what little he has to work with, I'd say he would bring plenty of positive intangibles to JGR, both behind the wheel and at the shop. Plus, Reuti's a Christian and a classy guy, very much like Gibbs is as well. And my other choice would be Bobby Labonte. Now I know what some of you are thinking, considering that Labonte has gone from champ to chicane in the last decade, but hear me out. First of all, Bobby is a champion, both literally and figuratively (<--Mark Martin), and would bring prestige to a team that hasn't had a champion in four years. Kenseth is coming over next season, and adding Labonte would give the team a 2nd champion. Labonte is also a very classy guy and to my knowledge has never had an on- or off-track incident that made us look at him in a negative light (the Watkins Glen incident this year, while bad, didn't change the way we feel about Bobby as a person). Because of his great track record, Bobby would bring an element of class that's been lost from JGR since he left after '05 (Yeley's a classy guy, but doesn't have the results to go with it). But most importantly, JGR needs a driver to drive the 3rd car. JGR's 3rd car has never been as competitive as the first two cars, and the right driver needs to be in that car. In '08, champion driver Tony Stewart was in that 3rd car, despite still being at the top of his game. Then the last four years Joey Logano has done nothing but waste four years of his career in that car, and has 1 legitimate win and no top 15 points finishes to show for it. I think the team's last car, whether it be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th car, should always go to either a young rookie who eventually moves up to a better car (which never happened to Logano), or a past-his-prime veteran who is still capable of helping a team out (i.e Jeff Burton at RCR). Since Labonte is past his prime and is the type of guy who's willing to drive the team's worst cars while his teammates, the established star Kenseth and the future champion Hamlin, are battling for championships, he can provide things like stability within the team, class that represents Gibbs and JGR, prestige that attracts sponsors for a potential 4th team for a younger driver, and can mentor some of JGR's younger drivers trying to work their way up to Cup. Because of these things, I think Labonte would be the perfect replacement for Kyle. He would be a great representative for the team, has had past success with that team, and would be willing to help the team work towards the future. Just look at him at JTG Daugherty right now. He can still get the occasional good run with a team that openly doesn't care about results, while being a great representative for the team and attracts sponsors based on his success and likability. For those reasons, I think Bobby would be a great short-term investment that could lead to long-term rewards for the team building towards the future. 334. cjs3872 posted: 10.06.2012 - 1:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, one thing I disagree with is you saying that Jeff Burton is capable of helping RCR out. He's not helping them in any way, and hasn't for two years now. A big problem that Childress and Kevin Harvick are having right now is that Harvick has nobody else he can lean on at RCR to help him get closer to where he was a couple of years ago. Burton can't help that team out any more, and Paul Menard isn't capable of doing so. That's one big reason why Childress went after Kurt Busch to pilot a fourth car. Frankly, he should have replaced Burton with Busch if wanted to hire the 2004 NASCAR champion, because for all his shortcomings, Busch is certainly capable of assisting Harvick and RCR on the track. In fact, not too any years ago, Busch himself was in the same predicament, a driver capable of winning races that was on an island with no teammate capable of helping him. This was Childress' big chance to get a second driver capable of running up front, and he blew it. As long as Burton and Menard are at RCR, Harvick will continue to be a non-factor, because Harvick will not have anyone capable of assisting him and making the cars better. 335. Paul posted: 10.06.2012 - 2:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But cjs, if one thing is holding Harvick back, it's his unwillingness to listen and work with others. I think there's been some resentment between he and Burton since Martinsville '10 when Harvick rubbed fenders with Burton under caution and Burton calling him out on his immaturity following the race. Then Harvick decides that his crew chief, who only helped end his 3-year winless streak and led him to back-to-back 3rd place points finishes, wasn't cutting the mustard. Then he realized his mistake just as he was on the brink of missing this year's Chase, but the damage has been done and unless he can pull off RCR's 3rd straight fall Talladega win, will go winless this season. As far as Burton not helping out RCR, I have to disagree to an extent. You're right that he hasn't necessarily helped the organization out, like what Terry Labonte did for HMS when he joined in '94, but I think his being there has helped shape both Clint Bowyer and Paul Menard into better drivers. Now obviously nobody will mistake Menard for being a great driver, but I think he gave Bowyer direction in his early RCR years that he wouldn't have had if Harvick and Robby Gordon were his teammates instead, and now he's one of the top drivers in the sport today. I've seen evidence of Menard and Bowyer talking to Burton and learning from him, both on and off the track (Bowyer and Burton were tandem drafting last year), but I've never seen Harvick talk to any of his RCR teammates. I think Harvick thinks he can win on his own, which is admirable in that he's trying to win in his own way. But when you have a teammate with the knowledge and leadership of Burton and you turn that down in favor of doing things your way, even though you've proven that you can't win a championship by yourself, why not change the way you do things (that doesn't involve firing your great crew chief) and see if that changes things? But then again, this is Harvick we're talking about; the same guy who seemed more focused on ending his 2-year Nationwide winless streak than fixing his Cup team this season, so I don't expect him to fix his problem. So while Burton alone hasn't done anything to help RCR as a team performance-wise, I think he's done a good job maintaining stability within a team that otherwise wouldn't have been as strong. RCR was a mess in the 2.5 years before Burton came over with three drivers who refused to work with each other, and other than the occasional Harvick outburst, hasn't had many internal issues in the past few years. And also, looking towards the future, would you rather throw Austin Dillon into an environment with Harvick, Menard, and Kurt Busch, or one with Harvick, Menard, and Burton? I agree that Kurt is more established than Burton, both presently and overall considering his champion status, but his history of outbursts and embarrassing his team might return and lead to a more chaotic environment for the future Cup driver. I think having Burton at RCR in 2014 when Austin comes to Cup will be good for Austin because he would be entering a more stable environment with a veteran who would be willing to work with him. I think Kurt would be willing to do the same thing, but his history of outbursts and team trashing is what makes me prefer Burton over Kurt. 336. NicoRosbergFan posted: 10.06.2012 - 5:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Smith would be great for Gibbs because like Labonte, he is able to get more out of a car than the car has to offer, but is savvy enough to not wreck. Personally, I see a lot of Burton in Harvick and Bowyer. Before Burton came to RCR, both Harvick and Bowyer were flat-out wreck-machines. After Burton came, they both switched to dominating when they could (like Burton) and otherwise waiting for your opponents to make a bad mistake and then taking advantage. Result: Harvick would have clinched the 2010 title a week early without the Chase. 337. cjs3872 posted: 10.06.2012 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I agree that Burton was a big help to RCR when he got there because, as you say, that orgainzation was a complete wreck at the time he got there, and in the four years that followed, he helped bring that team back to where they got back into the discussion when it came to elite teams. That much is indisputeable. But he's no help to them now and hasn't been for two years. That's why a change needs to be made. And you mention the thing with Hendrick and Terry Labonte. Hendrick kept him around far too long. I thought he should have released him as far back as 2000, especially since he went the entire 2001 season without even leading one lap the entire season. But unlike the situation with Labonte at Hendrick, since Hendrick already had two competitve drivers in Jeff Gordon and Jerry Nadeau, and then added Jimmie Johnson, Childress has only one competitve driver, and as long as Childress has his current roster of drivers, his organization's not going anywhere, and Harvick will continue to struggle because he's basically on an island, with nobody else there able to give any assistance. The only thing Burton is god for is leadership, and while that's great for the Dillon brothers, that's not going to do the team any good for at least two more years. If anything, RCR will continue to flounder as an organization as long as Burton and Paul Menard continue to be Harvick's teammates, and I think Childress knows that, which was why he was trying to hire Kurt Busch, because Busch can give what Burton and Menard can't, and that's a second competitve driver that's capable of helping the other Childress cars. And worst of all, Childress knows this and does nothing about it, or can't do anything about it. 338. NicoRosbergFan posted: 10.06.2012 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The only thing Burton is god for is leadership, and while that's great for the Dillon brothers, that's not going to do the team any good for at least two more years. If anything, RCR will continue to flounder as an organization as long as Burton and Paul Menard continue to be Harvick's teammates, and I think Childress knows that, which was why he was trying to hire Kurt Busch, because Busch can give what Burton and Menard can't, and that's a second competitve driver that's capable of helping the other Childress cars." ^ I love it. cjs thinks Jeff Burton is God. 339. David posted: 10.06.2012 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon just tweeted: "Crew chief/driver meeting w/@NASCAR 2day talking about changes for 2013. Opening up testing, no more top 35 points & random draw qualifying." YES!!!!!!!!!! 340. Paul posted: 10.06.2012 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's great about the "top 35 rule" going away. One thing that I'm happy is coming back is the random qualifying draw. This way teams won't sandbag their qualifying times in favor of an early qualifying lap, and takes strategy out of practice. "The only thing Burton is god for is leadership" Lol, I guess that makes Burton the Mayor and God of the NASCAR garage. You wouldn't fire God would you, cjs? Seriously though, I see your point about Burton and why RC wanted to hire Kurt to be his 4th driver because of Burton's lack of competitiveness over the past few years. But if you remember, he did become competitive again late last season with Luke Lambert as his crew chief. Burton had 0 top tens before Lambert, then had 5 top tens with Lambert, including 4 top tens in the final 5 races. I think that shows that Burton has the ability to be competitive once again if paired with the right guy. And you mentioned Terry Labonte's '01 season too. Had Hendrick released Labonte after that season, Labonte would have never had that spectacular '03 season when he went on a tear in the summer and won the final Labor Day weekend Southern 500, and put 3 Hendrick cars in the top ten in points for the first time in team history. That win ended a 3-year winless streak for Labonte, the same thing Burton's going through right now. I don't know if Burton's capable of having a season like Labonte's '03 season again, but RCR should keep Burton through the duration of his contract, which lasts at least through next year. Whether RCR feels obligated to honor Burton's contract or if they respect him too much to release him early, I think RCR will keep Burton at least until his contract is up, provided they can get sponsorship for Kurt Busch to drive the #31. If not, I wouldn't be surprised if they keep Burton on their team in some capacity, even if it was on their Nationwide team and working directly with Ty Dillon. What I do know is that we are at Talladega this weekend and Burton has finished top five in the last four RP tracks, including two runner-up finishes, and could be a factor in the race tomorrow. 341. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.06.2012 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Labonte always was too loyal for his own good. He resigned with Petty Enterprises in '08 (only to have them merge with Gillett and leave him out of a ride there) when he should have been trying to get into the #33 RCR ride like rumors were speculating. And now he finds himself trying to help out JTG-Daugherty, a team that I think is unreachable at this point. Marcos Ambrose left that car for a reason, and I believe that was because he felt they were declining. I agree with this comment on his driver page: "Bobby needs to stop trying to help these crap teams. The 47 is getting worse. They qualify 40th at the big tracks & he had trouble holding onto the draft at Daytona even though he got a top 10. (everyone wrecked) I really hope Bobby decides to go to a good team right before ends his career. Listening to his interviews, it sounds like he is getting sick of running 30th trying to help this team." I don't think Bobby's heart is in it like it used to be, but I think he would still be capable of helping out a team that needs it. 342. Jim Davis posted: 10.06.2012 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Now, should JGR decide to replace Kyle (which I'm almost positive they won't, which causes me to question how aware Gibbs is of what goes on within his own team)..." It's really hard to take you seriously when you suggest that you know more about what goes on within Joe Gibbs Racing than Joe Gibbs. 343. Paul posted: 10.06.2012 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Gibbs is rarely at the track prior to race day and has his son J.D. handle the day-to-day business dealings. Whenever he's being interviewed for his response to Kyle's behavior, he sometimes has that "deer caught in the headlights" look as if he has no idea what to think or what's going on. After having to deal with Tony Stewart's brash personality for 10 years and another five with Kyle Busch, he still comes off as shocked when he sees Kyle acting out the way that he does. I don't know how often Joe Gibbs is at the shop or how involved he is with his drivers, but the fact that he's been dealing with these egos for the last 14 years in NASCAR, not to mention all of his years coaching the Redskins, and still comes off as surprised when they embarrass themselves and the team, I do wonder how involved he is in the organization. As far as you saying that I know more about JGR than the owner himself, listen, I never once said I know what goes on at JGR, probably because unlike that other Toyota team, they don't feel it necessary to have cameras and a film crew in their shop for the sake of being on tv. All I know is what I've heard and seen from JGR's drivers, namely Kyle and previously Tony, and how year-after-year, chance-after-chance, they continue to embarrass the team and themselves with their immature behavior, yet they are seemingly never punished by the team itself. Whether it be Tony Stewart shoving a camera man back in '02, his constant bashing of the media, his history of messing around with drivers who weren't even in championship contention (Robby Gordon, Scott Wimmer, Kasey Kahne, Carl Edwards), and making an ass of himself in '06 that resulted in him missing the Chase. Or it be Kyle Busch throwing quitting on HMS at Texas in '07, not showing up for the post-season the last five years, picking a fight with Brad in '09 and '10 when he wasn't even a factor, flipping off a NASCAR official at Texas '10, picking a fight with RCR for the better part of last year, embarrassing the team and could have seriously injured someone at Darlington '11, wrecking Ron Hornaday in a meaningless Truck race at Texas last fall and getting parked for the Cup race and upsetting M&M's in the process, and now trashing TRD for their bad fuel mileage and putting the blame on somebody else's shoulders once again. And after all of this, Coach Gibbs has forgiven them time and time again. Either he's the most forgiving person in the garage area, or he's delusional in thinking that his drivers can be fixed with the proper coaching. If he were to do something to Kyle and tell him "Hey, you're an incredibly talented driver, but your attitude has embarrassed the team time and time again. We're parking you for a few weeks so that you understand just how good you got it here. Or do the same thing, but instead say "We're going to part ways with you because we simply cannot take the hits to our reputation anymore. We hope you take this lesson to heart and become a better person because of it." Former Philadelphia Eagles coach Buddy Ryan released his most talented receiver Cris Carter in 1989 because of Carter's selfish attitude and drug use. Carter went on to have a Hall of Fame career with the Vikings, and thanked Buddy for that in his HOF speech, saying that had Buddy not gotten rid of him, he might not have changed his ways and become a better player and person. I think if Gibbs did that to Kyle and let him know that his attitude is what's keeping him from being a great champion in NASCAR, then maybe Kyle will do so. Right now, I think Gibbs is being too passive with Kyle and isn't doing anything to change it. If he released Kyle, it could be the best thing he ever did for him, because right now all he's getting in return for Kyle are headaches, temper tantrums, and no championships. 344. cjs3872 posted: 10.06.2012 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Obviously, that was a typo regarding Jeff Burton's leadership. I obviously meant to say that the only thing Burton is good for at Childress is leadership. I know it got a few laughs at my expense, I meant to say that the only thing Burton was good for these days at Childress is his leadership. And it's good to see that NASCAR is finally beginning to undo it's more noticeable mistakes, and that announcement, if it's true, means that NASCAR had undid two more. The top 35 rule never did make sense, because it controlled the competition, because teams that were wanted to enter were foolish to do, since more than 80% of the starting grid was already determined before the track even opened. In NASCAR history, competition always found a way to control itself. And while the reverse qualifying procedure sounded like a good idea when it was introduced, it was a rule that more and more teams found a way to take advantage of, to the point where on the weekends with Saturday afternoon qualifying, they basically wasted one practice session to try to get a better time to go out to qualify. But as I mentioned, the two races that will benefit the most from the top 35 rule going away will be the two qualifying races for the Daytona 500, which suddenly have their old meaning back again. Under the current rules, only four cars qualified through the qualifying races, because the rest of the field was already set, as far as who was locked in. Now e qualifying races have gotten their importance back, and 14th and 15th place will be as important, if not more important that the battle for the win, because that could be the battle to determine who gets in the Daytona 500. Now if only NASCAR puts one of the crown jewels to start the Chase, such as the Brickyard 400 or Southern 500, there might be more attention given to the Chase and to NASCAR late in the season, because there would then be one of the biggest races in the Chase, which the Chase has lacked since 2005. A road course in the Chase wouldn't be bad, either, though doing that qill take some serious wrangling to the schedule, since there really is no road course other than the two currently on the schedule that I think could host a Cup race successfully. 345. Paul posted: 10.06.2012 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sadly cjs, we'll have to wait until at least 2014 for any major changes to the Chase schedule. The only change in next year's schedule compared to this year's is that they swapped dates between the fall Kansas and Talladega races. I think they should swap out Chicago for Indianapolis and have Indy kick off the Chase, have Atlanta and Charlotte swap dates so that the Chase has at least one great 1.5-mile track and puts Labor Day weekend back in the Carolinas (I might even make the Charlotte race a day race), and replace either Texas, Kansas, or Loudon with a 2nd Darlington race that would also run in the daytime. As for a road course, you've mentioned putting Sonoma in there before, but I would rather have an international track like Montreal (though that won't happen unless the two sides could work out a deal) and have it replace one of the three tracks I listed above. It would bring more international attention to the sport, while at the same time making the road courses more important since one of them would be a factor in deciding the champion. 346. cjs3872 posted: 10.06.2012 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I agree that there should be a road course in the Chase, if the idea of being a champion is to identify the best on all kinds of tracks in all situations. That's one reason I don't think Jimmie Johnson, as great as he's been, and I think he's on his way to his sixth title, measures up to the great champions of the past. That is what separates Stewart and Gordon from Johnson, in my view. Stewart and Gordon have gotten it done on all kinds of tracks, while Johnson, much like Dale Earnhardt, Sr. and the drivers of his era (Wallace, Elliott, Martin, etc.) all had weaknesses as far as a certain style of track goes. But the problem with adding a third road course, and that's the only way to make the idea of putting a road course in the Chase feasible, is that there's no road course currently worthy of a Cup date other than the two currently on the schedule, and it could be argued that even Watkins Glen is below par. 347. Jim Davis posted: 10.06.2012 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "...there's no road course currently worthy of a Cup date other than the two currently on the schedule..." The new Circuit of the Americas in Austin perhaps? 348. John Royal posted: 10.11.2012 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Charlotte race will be the first race since 1979 when there is no Earnhardt at the track. 349. Chris posted: 11.19.2012 - 2:52 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Dodge's last Sprint Cup Series win. 350. ch posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor for the #30 should be Swan Racing, as the team transferred over from Inception. 351. RaceFanX posted: 05.08.2018 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hotel chain Super 8 returns to Richard Petty Motorsports in a primary sponsorship role for the first time in just under three years for a one-off deal. Aric Almirola brought the red-and-yellow #43 Ford home with a top-20 run. 352. Greg1&9Fan posted: 07.04.2018 - 5:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was at this race. Was watching McMurray get lapped and just seeing how slow he was, was just sad. haha 353. TeamDCRfan posted: 11.18.2018 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Final Dodge Victory in NASCAR as of Today, 11/18/18 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: