|| *Comments on the 2012 Hollywood Casino 400:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. 18fan posted: 10.19.2012 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne ties Mark Martin for the series lead in poles with 4 by knocking Martin off the pole. Martin will start 2nd for the 2nd straight race. 2. Talon64 posted: 10.19.2012 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne earns his 26th career Sprint Cup Series pole, tying him with Bobby Labonte for 26th all time. His 4th pole of 2012 ties him with Mark Martin for the most, the two combining for 11 front row starts this season thanks to Mark qualifying 2nd. Kahne also ties Jimmie Johnson for the most Cup poles at Kansas with his 3rd. His 11.0 average start at Kansas is 2nd only to Johnson (10.6) among active drivers. Mark Martin qualifies 2nd for a 2nd consecutive race, his 57th career 2nd place start and 112th front row start in 851 races (.1316). Aric Almirola gets his 7th top 10 start of the season, but 6 of them are in the top 5 (17.1 avg start, versus 20.9 avg fin). Brad Keselowski will start 25th, his worst start in 11 races. It brings his average start in the Chase to 17.5, versus 16.1 in the regular season. 3. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.19.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) something really cool-a couple weeks or so ago jeffrey earnhardt said that he had "a big announcment" coming up, likely related to his long rumored full-time nns ride with rick ware racing next season. today on their official facebook page rick ware racing posted a picture of a budweiser nns car that will run at texas next week, how cool would it be to see an earnardt back in a budweiser car? 4. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are at least three things to watch for this weekend. One is how much the groove widens as the weekend goes on. Several drivers mentioned that the second groove isn't there right now, and we saw Regan Smith get loose in both qualifying laps, which severely hurt his qualifying time. With an ARCA race tonight and Nationwide qualifying and race tomorrow, the groove should widen by Sunday, but don't be surprised if some cars spin out exiting the corners or slide up into each other entering the corners. Another thing to watch is how drivers enter pit road. In Nationwide practice, Sam Hornish, Jr. missed the commitment cone getting to pit road, and Elliott Sadler's car had a rough landing while transitioning from turn 4 to the apron. And the third thing is how important track position will be. Brad qualified 25th, while both Denny and Jimmie qualified top 10. For Brad's sake, the middle and/or top groove had better open up for him to overcome his mediocre qualifying spot, otherwise he may have to rely on pit strategy to move up the leaderboard. 5. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.19.2012 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 25th starting place in a track position 400 mile race? Ouch. 6. joey2448 posted: 10.19.2012 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not too worried about Keselowski, because he usually finds a way to the front. Even though there are concerns about how wide the groove will be, the Blue Deuce usually holds the advantage in strategy, so much like last week at Charlotte, he'll likely find his way up front with strategy. Let's hope they don't run out of gas this week... 7. Daniel posted: 10.19.2012 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #30 David Stremme & #33 Cole Whitt Out using fastest 43: #32 Timmy Hill & #36 Dave Blaney 8. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.19.2012 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone know by how much the Quing record feel by? 9. joey2448 posted: 10.19.2012 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Old record was 180.856 mph, Matt Kenseth in 2005, which is about 29.88 seconds, I think... 10. 18fan posted: 10.19.2012 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The record was Matt Kenseth in 2005. His speed was 180.856 mph, and Kahne's today was 191.360 mph. 11. cjs3872 posted: 10.19.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) More than 10 MPH, 1995 Subaru WRX STi. The previous record was less than 181 and everyone that made an attempt, even the three that failed to make the field, blew that away. In fact, David Stremme, who beat the old record by more than 5 MPH, failed to qualify. This is somewhat reminiscent of the 1972 Indianapolis 500, which was the only time the entire field for that race all beat the previous track record. Even Cale Yarborough, the slowest qualifier at Indy in 1972, qualified faster than the record set by Peter Revson the year before. Of course, that was due to wings being allowed, not because of aewly repaved track surface. Beacuse of the ultra-high speeds and the narrow groove, which I don't really think will widen this entire weekend, partially due to the cold temperatures (are we watching an old race at Rockingham or Richmond from back in the 80s with all the cold weather gear the drivers are wearing?), the points could really shuffle, because I think conservative drivers will prosper this weekend, because I have a hunch that tires will be blowing and cars will be crashing due to the new track surface. We could even see a drivr like Jeff Burton, Jeff Gordon, or Jamie McMurray among the front runners at some point, because I have a feeling that running hard and fast this weekend may actually be counterproductive. 12. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In fact, there were 10 drivers in ARCA qualifying who were faster than the previous Cup track record set by Matt Kenseth in 2005. So far, the top groove is not there. Chad Boat in the ARCA race was in the high lane exiting turn 2 and lost control, taking out two other cars and barrel rolled on the backstretch. 13. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.19.2012 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The record was Matt Kenseth in 2005. His speed was 180.856 mph, and Kahne's today was 191.360 mph." "More than 10 MPH" DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN. 14. joey2448 posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yea, Chad Boat got t-boned while spinning down the backstretch, which punted him up into the air and eventually flipped back onto his wheels. This is only the second time that I know of a car flipping at Kansas, the only other time being a truck race about five or six years ago, and that was because of the driver hitting another spinning truck in just the right way so that it turned over, not from the air getting beneath the car. 15. jabber1990 posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) so the 5 is on the pole? the 55 is second? and the 15 is third? thats pretty cool that the top 3 cars all are mulitples of 5 with 5 in the ones colum 16. cjs3872 posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey 2448, that t-bone had a shovel effect, because Boat's car was thrown in the air as if it was shoveled into the air by the car that t-boned it. that was a graphic ilustration of why NASCAR raised the front bumper of the cars when they did the COT, or the current car in 2007-'08. I hear a lot of people say they should have left the bodies of the cars alone when they did the safety enhancements. That incident was the reason they couldn't do that, because of the way Boat's car was shoveled in the air. And jabber1990, if a car has a "5" as the last, or only number, it has to be a multiple of 5. 17. Eric posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, The weather had something to do with the Qualifying speeds besides the change in degrees of banking. I checkered weather.com and the highest temperature for Kansas City was 53 degrees at 3.45 P.M. and I am guessing when the cup cars started qualifying, the temperatures were starting to drop. Most people in the upper Midwest do wear falls jackets or some type of warm clothing when it is in the low 50's. The weather is supposed to be much warmer for Sunday according to Weather.com with being 78 degrees as a high. 18. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tires could be a problem for some guys this weekend. After the first pit stop, the inner line of Chris Buescher's right front tire was tearing, possibly from too much camber in the tire, while his other three tires looked pretty good. And now the caution is out for Ricky Ehrgott blowing his right front tire, with a few drivers thankful for the caution because they felt their right fronts going down. 19. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Then again, the ARCA Racing Series uses Hoosier Tires, not Goodyear Tires, so we may not see these issues tomorrow and Sunday. It sounds like ARCA is going to throw a competition caution with about 15 laps to go (a la the 2008 Brickyard 400) so teams don't have to worry about a tire blow out. 20. cjs3872 posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Eric, let's hope so, because one reason why racing is generally better in the summertime months is because the hotter weather would usually cause the grooveto move up, because the cars won't handle as well, but between the new higher banking, the speeds which probably won't be dropping as the fuel run goes on, and most importantly, the new asphalt, I don't think we'll see the groove move up very much, even if it's near 80 degrees Sunday. And I do think we'll be seeing tires blow because they'll be getting too much grip, and cars, possibly even key cars in the championship, might crash as a result. That's why I think that the more conservative drivers may benefit this entire weekend. As I said, don't be surprised if guys like Burton, Gordon, McMurray, and Regan Smith are among the front runners, because they are, or have become very conservative drivers. That's one reason why Gordon has struggled this weekend, as well as the other high-speed tracks with speed. I think he's become tempermental with that throttle, and is somewhat afraid to put it down on the high speed tracks. Just look at Michigan. He was 3 MPH slower than his teammates because he didn't want to press as hard on the throttle as his other teammates. And of course, that stuck throttle he had at Chicago, another 1.5 mile track, didn't help those concerns at all. 21. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Wes Townley was running in 2nd when he got out of the groove and lost it. Unfortunately for him, he got into the wall and wrecked his car. At this point, there might be a middle groove, but there's definitely not a high groove. 22. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Members of Buescher's team were pouring water over their used, lightly worn tires to keep them cool and reduce heat. Because they have little wear, the cooler temperatures will make those tires drive like sticker tires. I never saw a team do that before. 23. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.19.2012 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Wrecks Weekly 24. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that's literally been the case the past three weeks. Two weeks ago, he ran the Truck race at Talladega and wrecked while bump drafting, last week he ran the Nationwide race at Charlotte and wrecked while running 15th late in the race, and now tonight at Kansas he wrecks while running in 2nd. I kind of feel bad for him because he's wrecked himself out of good runs, but at the same time it is somewhat entertaining in a perverse way. 25. Spen posted: 10.19.2012 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For David's benefit, since I think he's probably the only one who would care, I've posted the 1949-1959 seasons as they would have looked using the modern F1 system. You can find them at this link: http://efr1.forumotion.com/t1399p75-nascar-with-other-points I'll be posting the rest of the seasons over the course of the next week or so, depending on how much time I've got. 26. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another bad wreck. Chris Windom lost it exiting turn 2 and hit Brandon Davis and sending them airborne for a brief moment. It looks like the left rear hub broke on Windom's car, causing him to turn into Davis, and sent the left rear tire flying in the air when his car snapped back to the right. 27. joey2448 posted: 10.19.2012 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We almost just had two rollovers in the ARCA race....kinda reminds me of the 2004 Cup race at Rockingham, where Carl Long flipped, then Robby Gordon almost flipped later in the race, getting up on his side for a brief moment before coming back down. 28. JRacingFast posted: 10.19.2012 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rick Allen with a rare mess up at the end of the ARCA race.... 29. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alex Bowman wins the race, his 4th of the season and 6th of his career. Congrats to Chris Buescher on winning the ARCA championship, after a runner-up finish in his rookie year last season. Maybe his cousin will go on to win the Truck championship next month. If that's the case, it would mark two years in a row that the ARCA and Truck champions were related, as Ty and Austin Dillon won those respective championships in 2011. 30. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Rick Allen with a rare mess up at the end of the ARCA race...." Haha that was great! 31. joey2448 posted: 10.19.2012 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hahaha Rick Allen, that was classic! 32. 18fan posted: 10.19.2012 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What did Rick Allen screw up? 33. murb posted: 10.19.2012 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's get down to some important business here. Who in the hell is Nur Ali, and why did Rick Ware enter him in the race this weekend? Sure, Timmy Hill hasn't been great, but this guy was making the Cope twins look like real drivers out there in practice today. 34. David posted: 10.19.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For David's benefit, since I think he's probably the only one who would care, I've posted the 1949-1959 seasons as they would have looked using the modern F1 system. You can find them at this link:" How thoughtful of you. I took the time to look at it, and I must say the results were interesting. 35. murb posted: 10.19.2012 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "What did Rick Allen screw up?" Alex Bowman won the race, while Chris Buescher won the championship. Rick mistakenly said that Alex Bowman was the champion as they crossed the line, and then caught himself afterward. It was nothing really. Plus, Rick gets a free pass since he's one of the best play by play guys in the sport, unlike other people on other networks who shall remain nameless. 36. Paul posted: 10.19.2012 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I like Rick Allen because he at least is enthusiastic and knows a lot about cars. Adam Alexander sucks at play-by-play, Alan Bestwick has seemingly had the life sucked out of him at ESPN, Mike Joy is FAR more interested in covering car auctions (which he is great at, by the way), and Marty Reid is Marty Reid. Nur Ali is a 2-time Southwest Formula Mazda Series Champion and the first Pakistani to become a professional racing driver. Obviously he has some talent, but word is that a lot of drivers were complaining that he couldn't hold his line in practice today, which escalated into him turning into Erik Darnell in the center of turns 3 & 4, tearing up both cars in the process. It's a shame Timmy Hill may have to start-and-park tomorrow so that Ali can run the full race (until he crashes) as he'll be in the #71, which has never run the full race. 37. ch posted: 10.20.2012 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @3 and @33... The Budweiser #41 RWR car is going to be driven by Nur Ali at Texas. It is not sponsored by the company, but by a local distrubutor in Dallas. As for the wreck with the 40, they were both at blame. Mostly Ali because he left about half a lane down low, but Darnell too for thinking he could fit a car in half a lane. 38. ch posted: 10.20.2012 - 12:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Using 2013 Qualifying rules (top 36 fastest then by owner's points)... 36th - #87 Nemechek (Last to time in on speed) 37th - #88 Smith (12th in Owner's Points) 38th - #38 Gilliland (29th in Owner's Points) 39th - #34 Ragan (30th in Owner's Points) 40th - #10 Patrick (33rd in Owner's Points) 41st - #32 Hill (34th in Owner's Points) 42nd - #36 Blaney (35th in Owner's Points) 43rd - #33 Whitt (37th in Owner's Points) DNQ - #30 Stremme (38th in Owner's Points) DNQ - #26 Wise (41st in Owner's Points) DNQ - #79 Bires (54th in Owner's Points) So to recap, under the 2013 system, Cole Whitt and the Circle Sport team would have made the race while Kelly Bires and Go Green Racing would not have. 39. Jim Davis posted: 10.20.2012 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So to recap, under the 2013 system, Cole Whitt and the Circle Sport team would have made the race while Kelly Bires and Go Green Racing would not have." But since there will be only 40 cars in the field in 2013, Whitt along with Hill and Blaney would have DNQed as well. 40. New14 & 88Fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 12:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Cup races will still have 43 cars, it's the Nationwide fields that are being cut down to 40 cars. 41. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 1:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) For anyone up at 1am East Coast time and have the NFL Network they are running the Top 10 Joe Montana games. Yes!!!! 42. Jocke Persson posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why was the #88 so slow in qualifying? And the #14? 43. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jocke, because there was only one groove on the track during qualifying, there was no room for error to have a quick lap. Stewart mentioned before he qualified that he was having trouble mentally as far as driving the car deep into the corners at such a high speed, which probably contributed to his slower lap times. Regan Smith's car was extremely loose and he almost lost it in turn 1 of his first lap, and because of the lack of grip above the bottom lane, suffered in his lap time. Because the car was in such bad shape, he didn't take any chances on his 2nd lap and just pedaled it back to the start/finish line. 44. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) DSFF, number one on that list was appropriately "The Catch" from the 1981 NFC Championship Game. Statistically it was a pretty bad game for him as he threw 3 interceptions, but that last drive may be Montana's defining moment as a football player. Down 27-21 in regulation, Montana drove his team 89 yards down the field against the Dallas Cowboys, who had gone to the Super Bowl five times in the previous 11 years, in a drive that ended with him throwing the ball to the back of the end zone and having Dwight Clark leap into the air to make the fingertip grab to take the lead. He then needed his defense to make a key tackle on Dallas just short of the first down, and then strip the ball from Danny White to ultimately win the game. But the fact is is that he, in his 3rd season, drove 89 yards down the field against Tom Landry's Dallas Cowboys, and guided the city of San Francisco to their first championship game win, and then went on to win his first of four Super Bowls that same year, truly cemented "Joe Cool"'s legacy, of which he continued to carry on over the next 13 years as a player that still lives on today. If you think about it, the 49ers winning that game is very reminiscent of Jeff Gordon's '95 championship. Think about it: In both cases you have a young man in his 3rd season winning a championship for a team that had never won a championship before, against a team that had dominated the past decade (or at least dominated their conference) led by one of the most prominent figures in the sport's history (Earnhardt/Landry) and holding them off a potential comeback to end the season/game. In both cases it was a "changing of the guard" moment as the '80s soon belonged to the 49ers similar to how the '70s (in the NFC) belonged to the Cowboys, and how the remainder of the decade would belong to Gordon similar to how the beginning of the decade belonged to Earnhardt. In both cases, the new top team went on to win three more championships in addition to their first one. The biggest difference though is that the Cowboys were able to rebound and win three more championships without their former leader, while RCR has yet to win another one without theirs. 45. Dave#38Fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i will say this for townley-he was having a good race, leading laps for the first time in his arca career and running in 3rd position when he ran out of talent and took himself out. thankfully, no innocent bystanders were taken out in the process this time, like at talladega when he took out both ss green-light racing trucks (chastain and chapman) who might both have to s&p the rest of the season to pay for those damages. i hope that zaxby's gets bought out by chick filet or kfc so they can kick townley and his dad to the curb and end his career already. the only thing he's accomplished in his career so far is job security for a LOT of fabricators and body shop workers. 46. ch posted: 10.20.2012 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cup will still have 43 cars, Nationwide 40, and Truck still 36. 47. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The difference is Montana started off poorly and ended like a ball of fire, wheras in '95, Jeff started off strong and had the equivalent of a 51-20 lead with 3 minutes left in the game (season) only to win 51-48. But I agree that is an appropriate #1 for Joe Cool. And I am glad they did away with the "Joe was just throwing it away and Dwight Clark grabbed it" myth. Make no mistake, that was one hell of a catch by Dwight, a very underrated part of the early Niners dynasty. But it was a designed aspect of the play. Other things I liked about that list: they included those two Chiefs games. Because he is so synonymous with the Forty Niners, a lot of people wanna kinda ignore his last two years in KC (kiinda like we do with Michael Jordan's last two years with the Wizards). But the fact iis he did some great things in KC. San Fran should have waited until Joe was healthy then traded Steve Young. Even a 37 year old Joe would have cruised to his 5th Super Bowl title with that '94 Niners team.that was by far the best Niners team ever, and they owed it to him to let him heal up while Steve manned the controls, then dumped him when Joe was able to play again. But I am glad they included that awesome revenge game. And I am VERY glad they included two of his wins on the road against Buddy Ryan's defenses. I'm just gonna come right out and say it: I hate that motherf****r. His teams took more cheap shots than Claude Lemeiux. Watching him stomp those Oilers in the playoffs in the "House of Pain" and then hold off the new "changing of the guard" at The Vet with the very hatable Eagles of the time was just awesome. Buddy, Joe Cool owns your ass. I wonder if he is currently Joe's full time grass cutter. As for Steve Young, he was extremely talented, but he was honestly the bizarro Montana. He put up amazing statistical numbers, especially in the regular season, but almost always found a way to play down in the playoffs, lowlighted by losing 3 straight NFC title games. He was pretty much Peyton before Peyton. In all fairness he did have a monster Super Bowl once he finally made it, breaking Joe's statistical records. But of Joe stays healthy, the Niners of '90-'95 win at least 2 more Super Bowls instead of one, possible more considering his ability to thrive under the greatest of pressures (the Earnhardt of football, definitely the MJ of football). They definitely win 1990 for the only Super Bowl 3 peat, and of course 1994. Plus I think they grab at least on of those '91-'93 titles. As a 49er, he NEVER went more than 2 years without a Super Bowl title. And let the record show that even in Steve's one Super Bowl winning season, he got beat by Joe in the regular season, so he has Joe's shadow over even that year. 48. Jim Davis posted: 10.20.2012 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Cup will still have 43 cars, Nationwide 40, and Truck still 36." I knew that. Really, I did. We will not speak of this again. 49. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.20.2012 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The Dallas Cowboys of the 90's were very good but I think they would have been even better and won more superbowl's if Jerry Jones hadn't interfered and Fired Jimmy (what is it with that name) Johnson. 50. cjs3872 posted: 10.20.2012 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No DSFF, the 49ers did the right thing when they traded Joe Montana, because that bought them about five more years of winning. Joe was physically done in 1993, though he hung around for one more season in 1994. But the 49ers dynasty continued through 1998 with Young as QB, and Young lost two consecutive title games, not three as you say. He won the third time out in a game that was effectively over after just half a quarter. In 1991, a mid-season injury to Young (and "Big Ben" striking the 49ers in Atlanta for the second time) cost the 49ers a playoff spot, and they were the only team that could have beaten the Redskins that year. And a lack of offense did not cost the 49ers the 1990 NFC title game against the Giants. Two costly late fumbles did, including one on the play that effectively ended Montana's 49er career. But in retrospect, given what was going on halfway around the world at the time, it was appropriate that the Giants, who like the Buffalo Bills, wore the colors of the USA (red, whilte, and blue), won that game, making the 25th Super Bowl an all-red, white, and blue affair. I didn't watch that special, but among Montana's greatest games were the 1980 comeback against the Saints that launched his NFL career, the 1981 NFC Championship game, the shootout between his 49ers and Dan Fouts' Chargers in 1982 that his 49ers lost (not because of anything he did), His epic Super Bowl performances against Dan Marino (SB XIX) and John Elway (SB XXIV), his comeback at the end of SB XXIII, his comeback agast Buddy Ryan's Oilers in the 13 AFC Divisiona Playoff, and his epic duel with John Elway in Denver in what I think was the greatest Monday Night game ever in 1994. That even got hard-luck Marty Schottenheimer a rare win in Denver. And I'm surprised I didn't see anything on here at the time I started writing this about Johanna Long outqualifying Danica at Kansas, as she qualified in the top ten (ninth), while Danica still qualified a respectible 13th. 51. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Benjamin, there is no doubt Jerry Jones killed what could have been a dynasty beyond any NFL dynasty by getting rid of Jimmy Johnson. Jimmy's ability to evaluate talent and build teams was so far ahead of his time in the NFL. And Jerry's abiltiy as GM is pure shit and their record ince '95 reflects that. He would rather lose with HIS team than be a dynasty with Jimmy Johnson's team (and make no mistake, even though he had been fired, that '95 super Bowl winning Dallas team was Jimmy Johnson's team). My least favorite type of person. 52. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "His teams took more cheap shots than Claude Lemeiux." Haha I'm an Avalanche fan and I got a laugh out of that Claude Lemieux reference. His check on Kris Draper looked somewhat like the tragic pit road crash at Atlanta 1990 when Ricky Rudd spun and fatally crushed on of Bill Elliott's crew members, as Draper was somewhat crouched over and Lemieux's ass sent him head first (not face first) into the boards. Then of course Darren McCarty got him back by beating his ass and making him "turtle" and go into a fetal position later in the 1995-96 playoffs. "then hold off the new "changing of the guard" at The Vet with the very hatable Eagles of the time was just awesome." Thankfully that never happened. The Eagles have the worst (yet entertaining) fans in the NFL. From cheering Michael Irvin's career-ending neck injury on their piece of shit field, to pleading for Andy Reid's firing after they lose two straight games, they are hands-down the most fickle and difficult to please fans in football, and maybe all of sports. They are truly the "Kyle Busch" of football fans: Happy when they win, miserable whiners when they lose. I love it when they complain about losing the Fog Bowl because of the fog. The fact is is that the Bears scored two touchdowns before the fog (which the Eagles couldn't do) and held the Eagles to only a field goal after the fog came. Sure, it was foggy for the Eagles, but it was also foggy for the Bears and they were simply the better team. (I apologize in advance to any "good" Eagles fans who get a bad rap) Also, was there ever a more likable sports dynasty than the 49ers of the '80s? "Plus I think they grab at least on of those '91-'93 titles" Their best chance to win a Super Bowl in that period would have been '92 because Steve Young was the league MVP and the 49ers finished a league-high 14-2. Then they lost in Steve Young's second ever playoff game to the Dallas Cowboys in the NFC Championship game 30-20. Had "Joe Cool" been the quarterback, there's a good chance his team doesn't get outscored in each of the final three quarters. 53. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, not to be disrespectful, but championships really don't mean much to you, do they? I apologize if this comes off as a personal attack. But you mention Steve leading an additional 49er dynasty from '91-'98 (long after Joe had retired), but they only won 1 Super Bowl over that stretch despite being loaded with talent. I don't view that as a dynasty. This includes 2 home losses in NFC title games (to the talented but outrageously young Cowboys in their first title season, and to Favre and the Packers who choked away the big game against the Broncos a week later). At the very least Joe (who was healthy and kicking again in '94) would have won that one Super Bowl giving him the rightful record as the best QB of the Super Bowl era. San Fran owed that to him. Again, I don't mean to be offensive, I like reading your posts which are well thought out and excellent discussion pieces. But I am surprised at how little championships seem to mean to you. I agree they aren't the end all be all, but they are a huge factor to me, especially if the individual in question spent a long time surrounded by elite talent (as Steve was). As for your question about the list, the Saints comeback was #10. It was there because 1) it is a good lead in as it was his first comeback in a career of epic comebacks and 2) why were they down 35-0 to the 1980 Ain'ts? The Elway game in KC made it cause it showed he still had a flair for the dramatic, following what was thought to be yet another Elway 4th quarter comeback, only for The Comeback Kid to be upstaged by Joe Cool. And his Super Bowl beatdowns of Marino and Elway also both, made it as each was supposed to be a "QB battle" which turned out to be a one sided ass whooping. But the Dan Fouts shooutout wasn't even mentioned. 54. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jerry Jones is the biggest reason why I don't root for the Cowboys anymore. They were my favorite team when I was a kid (even more so than my home state Vikings), but over the years I've learned more about Jerry and his refusal to win at all costs, even if it means winning under someone else's rules, which is why he fired Jimmy Johnson after winning the previous two Super Bowls. He would rather build a 60-yard HD video screen and lose games his way, than win games someone else's way, and I can't respect a team owner who does that (especially since they've only won two playoff games over the past 16 years under his regime). cjs, I don't remember the whole list, but I remember that his first comeback against the Saints in '80 was #10, his final comeback against the Broncos in '94 was #9, his comeback against the Eagles in '89 was #2, and the '81 NFC Championship Game was #1. 55. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lemieux is one of those guys I would love if he was on my team. But I pulled for Red Wings in the 90's (the Hurricanes hadn't come to Carolina yet) cause my Dad went to Detroit in 1990 to help set up some stores and got free tickets to a Red Wings games and he got me a Red Wings hat. So I pulled for them and hated Colorado and Lemieux. But they were a hell of a team and I would love Claude if he were a Red Wing. And for the record, I changed my allegiances from the Red Wings to the Hurricanes just in time for them to lose the Stanley Cup finals to the Red Wings. F**k. As for Johanna outqualifying Danica, that is old hat now. It has been well established how much better she is than Danica. All I am worried about now is Johanna's continued progression and hopefully eventually a well funded ride. Danica doesn't matter. It is all about Johanna. 56. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "why were they down 35-0 to the 1980 Ain'ts?" DSFF, the 49ers were actually down 35-7 to the Ain'ts (greatest description for a bad sports team, with the "Bungles" coming in 2nd). Not only that, but the Ain'ts entered that 0-13 after finishing 8-8 the previous season, and eventually finished the year 1-15. Not only did the Ain'ts only win game, they won by one point as they beat a bad New York Jets team the week after their collapse against the 49ers. The funniest thing about that team is that there was only one win in the Superdome that year, and that was when the Raiders beat the Eagles in the Super Bowl. 57. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's been questions about Danica's relationship with GoDaddy the past week as it was announced that they won't be using her in commercials anymore because the new marketing director is a woman who...let's just say isn't too fond of having half-naked women advertising their product. There's been rumors that GoDaddy is only filling out their contract requirements with her, which only lasts through next season, and could pull out after 2013. I just hope Johanna's car can hold up for the full race and she doesn't lose too much time on pit road, which is what really hurt her at Richmond, the race where she passed Denny "I hate racing in the Nationwide Series" Hamlin. 58. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.20.2012 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jerry Jones should do every Dallas Cowboy fan a favor and Fire himself. (and take Tony Choker Romo along with him to the unemployment line) 59. 10andJoe posted: 10.20.2012 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting fact learned during Nationwide Series qualifying: only Cup is going back to 'time + provisionals' next year, the top-25/top-30 exemption will remain in Trucks and Nationwide. 60. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Len Dawson! 61. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 10.20.2012 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Love how it takes 15 minutes to play 3 minutes on the clock in Yankee Handball. 62. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 10.20.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry I take that back... ...20 minutes 63. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Scott ladies and gentlemen. Pit stop time, Johanna's awesome Top 10 run is about to fall all to shit. F**k! Watching these splitters and how they just scoop up grass, do you realize that if they had splitters in 1987 it would have been end game for Dale in The Winston? I hate splitters and always will. 64. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey, at least we have an inflexable timing system in "Yankee Football", none of this arbitrary "extra stoppage time" like they have in International Flopball that nobody understands. Here is a novel concept, when play on the field is stopped, STOP THE DAMN CLOCK!!!!! This isn't rocket science. 65. joey2448 posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The closing rate between cars is something we'll have to keep an eye on this weekend. The speed difference between lapped cars and Brian Scott is what caused his spin early in this Nationwide race, and with the narrow groove, it's gonna create some exciting moments! 66. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just don't see the purpose of having the game clock counts up, instead of down. 67. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yup, there's our Brian Scott Spin of the Week, presented by Dollar General. Just so you guys know, we don't all drive like that in Idaho. It's just Brian. Logano is probably gonna run away with this race. 68. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We almost saw the return of "Sideways Sam". 69. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeremy Clements blows an engine. Not the way he envisioned his 100th Nationwide start ending. 70. joey2448 posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who the hell cares if the game clock counts up or down??? It's not that hard to understand that there's 90 minutes in a game, and a few extra minutes to account for stoppage time. Much like it's not that hard to understand the Latford points system, over this stupid points system NASCAR uses today.. 71. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Brian is a great race car driver." - said no one ever. 72. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, Wow... 73. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unprovoked spin #2 from Brian Scott brought to you by Dollar General and your local Dollar General stores. 74. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No joey2448, it would be like flipping the current points system so that 1st place gets 1 point and last place gets 43 points, then ranking the points from lowest to highest. 75. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know it's bad when your sponsor can't wait for Brian Vickers to replace you in their car. 76. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Would be bizarrely hilarious if NASCAR's point system worked like that. There'd be a rush to see who could go behind the wall first and drop out! Alas, that would be pretty screwed up. Brian Scott genuinely DID look like he had promise in his two years in the Trucks and his first year of Nationwide...Wonder what the hell happened to him once he got to Gibbs? 77. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not that hard to understand? They go to the 90 minute mark which is supposed to be the end of the game. Except it just keeps counting up and counting up then around the 91 minute mark somebody holds up a board with a number on it saying how much extra time they will have, the interim is spent speculating how much they will give. 2 minutes? 3 minutes? 5 minutes? Then they go to the next supposed "end time..... except it STILL keeps counting up while everyone guesses. Then they either stop the game after 20 more seconds or add more time and the whole exercise starts again. Just stop the damn clock while an "injured" player is being tended to and end it at 90 min, no questions asked. And yes, counting from 90 to 0 would be much more effective. 78. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, what a great job by Ryan Blaney slowing down and avoiding the spinning Scott. 79. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol, murb. 80. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something tells me that first green flag run may be the longest in this race. 81. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Cup race tomorrow is going to be just like the first two Kansas Cup races were and feature a bunch of crashes, isn't it. I get that feeling from watching the Nationwide race... 82. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, you're probably right Schroeder. I'm expecting somewhat of a crash fest too. Don't get me wrong, I think Vickers has done a fantastic job in the 55 car this year. What I meant was that over the course of his career, he's definitely been a bit of a wrecking ball. So I just think that it's ironic that he is probably going to be replacing another wrecking ball in the Dollar General NNS car for JGR next year. I do expect him to run well over there though, just because he's always done a decent job as a minor league driver. For the most part, he'll probably just be Elliott Sadler's wingman though, as Elliott will also probably take a full time ride for JGR in NNS. 83. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BRIAN SCOTT! 84. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Park the damn thing already! 85. Anonymous posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Scott achieves LEGENDARY status. 86. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Three times finally finishes it off. Seriously, what the hell DID happen to Scott? I really did think he had promise when he was in the Trucks, but ever since he started driving for Gibbs, he just...imploded. What the blue hell happened there? 87. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Strike 3!!! 88. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Someone get Brian Scott off the track right now 89. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cool it there Mr Wilkinson. 90. New14 & 88Fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Scott has been the cause of just about every caution thus far, he should just park it and be done. 91. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brian Scott needs a nickname. Any suggestions? It looks like track position is key in this race. 92. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Someone should just Kick Brian Scott's ASS. 93. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a save by Scott Lagasse, Jr. 94. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but ever since he started driving for Gibbs, he just...imploded." Actually, it's really been since he moved up to NNS. If you remember, he drove the 11 Braun Racing car in 2010, and had similar results (crashes) as he has at JGR. If you ask me, he should have stayed another year in the Truck Series. He could have worked out a lot of these crash bugs and he'd probably be running a lot better in NNS and wouldn't be out of a ride at the end of this year. Crazy save by Scott Lagasse!!!!! 95. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now, we have the inevitable Nur Ali wreck today. 96. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nur Ali backs into the wall. Alright, how many cautions do you think there'll be tomorrow? My guess is 10. 97. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know that the track only has one groove, but there are several drivers that simply don't belong in the Nationwide Series and they've proven so today. 98. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it's 100 miles longer than today's race, so I'm guessing about 10 - 12. Agreed, Paul. 99. cjs3872 posted: 10.20.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No DSFF, what I said was that trading Montana to the Chiefs was what enabled those 49ers to win for five more years, because had they traded Young, they would have gone south around 1993 or '94. So a 13-years dynasty became an 18-year dynasty with that move. Montana was not going to beat those Cowboys any more than Young was going to, especially a Montana past the point where he would have been effective, because those Cowboys were a superior team to the 49ers, no matter who the 49ers QB was. In other words, not trading Montana was what enable the 49ers because had they traded Young, they'd still be stuck at four. The reason being that Montana would not have been physically able by 1994 or Jan. '95. But by keeping Young, they were able to buy four or five more years, and become the first team to win five Super Bowls. And the shootout with Fouts wasn't mentioned for the reason I stated before. They lost. Interestingly, that game didn't even make the list NFL Network did for greatest QB Duels. In fact, for some reason, no game involving either Joe Montana or Dan Fouts game made that list, which is mystifying, to say the least, because Montana was involved in some great duels, as was Fouts. (Does the "Epic in Miami" ring a bell? Not to mention other shootouts, especially with the Raiders, Bengals, and Dolphins.) I'll say this about this weekend's races. I hope the flagman got his arm loose before the race today, because he's getting a workout with all the times he's having to throw the caution flag, as well as the green flag for restarts. And I hope the flagman for tomrrow's race gets a workout in before tomorrow's race, because he'll need it for all the times he'll be displaying the green and yellow flags. 100. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) James Buescher tags Jason Bowles and sends him into the wall. Naturally, ESPN changes cameras just as it happens and there's no caution. 101. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's unbelievable how they won't throw a caution for an actual wreck like that, but they'll throw one for a soda can in a heartbeat. 102. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We are in the middle of a green flag pit stop sequence. So we are gonna go to commercial. Man I hate BSPN. 103. Jim Davis posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It seems like there is always a long stretch in the middle of every race when ESPN never shows intervals, only running order. 104. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse tore up his car. 105. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse with damage!!! 106. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Montana would have won the '92 NFC Championship game as he was just better in the playoffs than Steve. By a lot. Swervin Stenhouse has a lot of damage again. 107. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WHY DOES THIS ALWAYS HAPPEN?! 108. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johanna blew a tire. Dammit. 109. New14 & 88Fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ricky Stenhouse ran all over Stale Bread in turn four. And now Johanna Long has crashed, she was running good too bummer. 110. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He totally piledrove Logano like he wasn't even there. He deserves it. And Johanna wrecked. Tough break. 111. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn! I hate that. There goes my reason for giving a damn about this race. 112. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great, now both of my favorite Nationwide drivers (Clements and Johanna) are out of the race. 113. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol at post 64 saying that "nobody" understands the International Football game system. 114. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least she has proven she can run very respectably in very underfunded equipment. 115. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) man...a cup driver who has NO BUSINESS even being in the field might have just cost stenhouse the championship...$%^$ you, logano. between racking up meaningless (to him) nns wins and flipping off stenhouse like he just did, logano is turning into kyle busch. 116. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, Joey nearly side swiped Stenhouse in the pits. That's going a little bit too far... 117. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's true. She has shown she can compete, but I just hate seeing her not get the finishes she deserves. And that wreck was all Stenhouse's fault. He slid up into Joey, who couldn't go any higher because there is a wall there. Last year Stenhouse did everything not to lose to the title and won, this year he's done everything to lose the title and probably will. 118. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The funniest thing is that Paul Menard has been leading for a while but no one cares, lol. I don't like either Stenhouse or Logano, so I'm glad that both of them got damage in that incident. That being said, it was all Stenhouse, like Paul said. He drove right into the 18. 119. cjs3872 posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I've said on numerous race pages, I think Jack Roush and Mike Kelley (if he stays as the crew chief of the #6 NNS car next year) will probably be glad when Trevor Bayne gets in that car, because Bayne is almost never going to make these silly, illadvised, unnecessary chances that Stenhouse keeps taking, because it ends up in disaster almost every time. Stenhouse keeps making these dumb mistakes, whichis why I said several months ago that Roush should have elevated Bayne up to the Cup series ahead of Stenhouse, and put him in the #6 car, but instead chooses Stenhouse, a driver that takes too many high-risk chances, and puts him in the #17 car. Like I said, Stenhouse might have a hard time finishing in the top 20 in the Cup series points next year, while giving Jimmy Fennig more wrecked cars next year than he's had to fix over the last three years combined. Another driver decision flub by Roush, much like the one that saw him release Jamie McMurray and keep David Ragan. 120. Jim Davis posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Long finally got the memo about mentioning the sponsor during interviews. 121. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, Paul Menard IS leading this race. Who knew? 122. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i hope jack roush does all next season what he's done to matt kenseth over the last few weeks. now i can't wait until next season :) 123. loomer posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Blaney has been very impressive today. Started deep in the 20's and has methodically worked his way into the top-5. Another bad break of Johanna... 124. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I disagree, Dave38. Logano is a brat, but if he was anything like Kyle, he would have wrecked Stenhouse there as they reconnected with each other on the race track a moment ago. Just like Kyle has done several times before when he has been "wronged" (Brad Keselowski at Bristol 2010, Elliott Sadler at Bristol 2011, Ron Hornaday at Texas 2011). 125. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually most crews prefer a driver that will go all out every lap than a conservative driver. Trevor won't screw up as much, but he won't be as much of a threat to win week in and week out. 126. joey2448 posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, Joey Logano continues to pester Stenhouse on the track...nearly sideswiping him in the pits, bumping him on the frontstretch, bumping him on pit road...C'mon Joey give it a break, this is a Nationwide race! 127. MarkMartinFan posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Logano vs Stenhouse thing is borderline temper tantrum on Logano's part. He ran into him after the incident, almost hit him on pit road, bumped him all the way down the front stretch, then he's bumping him on pit road. 128. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really Logano? Yes Swervin Stenhouse messed up, but to keep going on like that? You are a CUP driver (granted not a good one, but a Cup driver nonetheless) racing in a MINOR LEAGUE race and you are this bent out of shape? Brad? Why? Why? Why? Why? And Logano needs to face it, Stenhouse has a much brighter future. 129. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another caution. Damn. 130. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Derek White lost it, smacked the wall and tore up the right side. 131. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's with all the JGR Cup drivers starting feuds in the Nationwide Series? First there was Denny vs. Brad, then Kyle vs. Brad, now Joey vs. Ricky. It's silly distractions like these that have de-railed their hopes for the Sprint Cup championship. 132. joey2448 posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Right now I bet Richard Childress is on the radio to Menard telling him to move over and let his grandson win... 133. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse gets the Lucky Dog. 134. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Austin Dillon wins this race, I might throw up. 135. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When you are 15 laps down, DO NOT race the lead lap cars, especially when this is your first race. 136. joey2448 posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why is it that every time a race is shaping up to have a great exciting finish, there's a caution before the end??? (although this was warranted - crash) Paul Menard was slowly catching Kyle Busch, I thought it was gonna come down to the last lap. Does anyone else foresee some of the cars running out of gas on the GWC? 137. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hornish is out of gas, the first of many probably. 138. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now cars are running out of fuel under caution. 139. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Right now I bet Richard Childress is on the radio to Menard telling him to move over and let his grandson win..." I could totally see that happening too, sadly. Richard has lost a lot of my respect with some of the moves he's pulled over the past year and a half. 140. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, if Ricky Stenhouse wins this race, I might throw up. 141. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth will be the first respectable driver Gibbs has had in quite a while. 142. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) God. Damn. It. 143. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse is going to win the title again. I'm convinced. 144. Schroeder51 posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dammit, let it go Joey! 145. MarkMartinFan posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano needs to grow up. 146. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano is Roger's latest bitch. Can't wait to see how this turns out next year. 147. New14 & 88Fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse got that one gift wrapped for him. And Joey get over it you baby, what is it with Gibbs drivers getting into to with Nationwide drivers jeez. 148. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, what a prick Logano is. Stenhouse totally caused it, but really? You're really gonna carry that grudge throughout the rest of the race? Ugh. 149. 18fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR's handling of late race cautions directly determined the outcome of that race. Sucks for all the guys who lost good finishes due to the circumstances. Stenhouse in no way deserved that win. He better get used to winning because he will not win a Cup race any time soon the way he drives, maybe not for at least 3 years. 150. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Swervin Stenhouse! Don't like him personally (don't hate him either) but he is my favorite driver to watch. He made this race worth watching. Logano, you officially suck. Ricky has the heart, you have had the world handed to you on a silver platter. You are already washed up at 22. 151. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mature interview by Kyle. Meanwhile, Logano makes a jackwad out of himself in his. 152. 18fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I hate to break it to you, but he in no way deserved that win. It fell into his lap. 153. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Kyle Busch was very professional in his interview after running out of fuel in the final turn while leading. I honestly have no problem with what Joey did after the race. It's good to have emotion in this sport in this day and age. Was it a little cheap? Yeah. Was it warranted? I think so because Stenhouse put him in the wall earlier in the race. Plus it didn't hurt Stenhouse's overall finish. No harm, no foul. Stenhouse now has 6 Nationwide victories this season. This is the most wins by a Nationwide regular since Martin Truex, Jr. won 6 race in 2005. By the way, Truex went on to win his 2nd straight Nationwide title that year, something that Stenhouse has increased his chances of doing with his win today. 154. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Elliott finished 4th to maintain his lead in the championship, albeit by just 6 points. I'm fully backing him for the championship, because there is no way that Stenhouse deserves it this year. Despite having a couple more wins than Elliott, he has made idiotic mistake after idiotic mistake, while Elliott has steadily been there every week as a contender. Elliott deserves it more. As for Austin Dillon, he's clearly been the third best out of the three of them. 155. loomer posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Surprisingly good interview by Kyle after yet another heartbreaking loss 156. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When did I say it didn't fall into his lap? I'm just saying he is the most exciting driver to watch. Much like the original, Swervin Irvan, it doesn't matter where he is running in the race, the big picture implication, or what point of the race it is, he drives the piss out of it every lap and is capable of a spectacular self inflicted mistake. He is NEVER boring to watch. Believe me, it is with the utmost revernce that I call him Swervin Stenhouse. I liked watching Ernie, and I like watching Ricky. 157. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Paul Menard doesn't pit when Ricky was 2 laps down, Stenhouse loses this race. Menard pitting allowed Ricky to take the wave around, putting him one lap down, and eventually he got the "lucky dog" and that last caution and Menard running out of fuel put him in position to win, which he capitalized on. 158. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope Stenhouse continues driving like this in Cup next year. He's going to back the battles for 15th-20th a lot more exciting to watch. 159. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although I like Sadler better personally, for the sake of NASCAR, I wanna see a kamikaze driver like Swervin Senhouse win his 2nd straight NWide title. I want more drivers like him out there with the talent to win lots of races but a little too much bravery that makes you have to watch them every second. 160. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's too bad Stenhouse won't be racing tomorrow. It would be fun as hell seeing him drive into the corners at 205 MPH in those Cup cars and seeing if he can make it stick. He has the potential to be a great Cup driver, but I think it's going to take him a few years before he gets there. 161. 18fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I think I misinterpreted your comment about him having the heart. He is exciting to watch, although he does need to reign it in a little next year, which I believe he kind of has in the Cup races, but it has made him slower. 162. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was satisfying to watch. Plus Michigan beat Michigan State. Good day overall. :-) 163. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) stenhouse will get the last laugh. jackass roush has a LONG memory. with the way he has been sabotaging kenseth the last few weeks after 12 years of loyalty from him, unless logano apologizes to ricky, logano's penske ford will not finish a race all next year. 164. joey2448 posted: 10.20.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow what a finish....who would've thought that Stenhouse was going to win after the incidents he had? And passing Kyle in the final turn of the race to win? And Logano was third in a beat-up car as well? Wow. We all thought Ricky was gonna lose points today, and instead he GAINS points? I have to say that I was thoroughly entertained all race long. The difficulty of passing makes it exciting to watch, and that's what NASCAR is supposed to be about! 165. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about Eric McClure, Erik Darnell, and Joey Gase all getting top 20 finishes. This race fit those guys perfectly. None of them drive too hard or take any risks, and on a very fast one groove race track, they stayed out of trouble and get rewarded for their efforts. In fact, it was Gase's career best finish and McClure's career best non-restrictor plate finish. We might see that in the Cup race tomorrow with guys not normally in the top 20 finishing there, like Casill, Kvapil, or Mears having good finishes. 166. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No prob 18fan, we're cool. And yes it will take a few years before Ricky will put it together well enough to consistently compete in Cup. I still say it will look like Gordon's '93 season next year. A lot of early race promising runs, a lot of torn up cars. 167. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wanna talk once more about Logano. If I was Joe or JD Gibbs, I could not be happier about replacing this tool with a champion like Matt Kenseth. Logano has been dragging this team down for the past four years. He adds nothing whatsoever to their Cup stable. So now, you get rid of the rich kid and bring in Matt Kenseth, a class act and a champion. You couple that with a maturing Denny Hamlin (at least I think he is - I've seen a much more focused driver in him this year who is capable of being a champion), and you have two guys who could probably rub some of that off on your third driver, Kyle Busch (again, really mature interview by Kyle in this race - but he still overall has a ways to go in that department). Add in another class guy like Elliott Sadler, and you've got a team that is a hell of a lot better off than it was the year before. And the reason why? Getting rid of the ungrateful albatross known as Joey Logano. 168. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ And Danny Efland had a great finish after not originally being on the entry list. 169. 12345Dude posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just saw the end with everyone running out of fuel. I don't think they should of allowed another green white checkered lap. It cost Kyle the race. And to his credit he didn't seem that upset. I feel like all I do is complain when once in a while I post on this site, but was it with all these untalented drivers getting full time sponcership. Hal Martin is 15 laps down and wrecks Lagasse who was having an amazing race. Where do these guys keep getting sponsorship from? Malsam was doing great this year. I think what Tri Star is going to do is there going to take all the money the untalented Eric McClure and Hal Martin get, and put that money toward Mike Bliss. If there doing that, then that's a good decision. But why can't Taylor Malsam get a full time sponcership deal? Also has anyone noticed how stacked the Nationwide Series will be in 2013? Full Time Drivers With Good/Great Equipment: Trevor Bayne Elliott Sadler Brian Vickers (with Gibbs) Regan Smith (with JR Motorsports) Cole Whitt (might not find sponcership) Sam Hornish Junior Parker Kligerman (looks like is going to ride full time for Turner) James Buescher Justin Allgaier Austin Dillion Michael Annett Ryan Truex Mike Bliss Along with Darren Wallace Junior, Drew Herring, Ty Dillion, Nelson Piquet Junior running part time. Along with Roush adding a car with Carl Edwards, Greg Biffle, and Ricky Stenhouse. And Matt Kenseth will be back in the nationwide series. 170. 12345Dude posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And don't forget Kenny Wallace (motivated enough to win multiple races a year in the right situation + sponsorship) and the surprisingly good Travis Pastrana running in the 99. 171. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, Ryan Truex may not have a ride next year, let alone a full-time ride. JGR announced that along with Sadler and Vickers running for the title, they will field a 3rd car that will be split between Hamlin, Kenseth, Darrell Wallace Jr., and Drew Herring, with no mention of Ryan Truex in their 2013 plans. And Mike Bliss is not in good equipment. TriStar Motorsports is a mediocre team that gets mediocre results from Eric McClure, it's just that Bliss is so great that he makes the team itself look good with his consistent top 15 runs. 172. 12345Dude posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb why are you being so harsh to Logano? He didn't seem upset at all at the end of the race as it was more of a "friendly tap" at the end of the race. I don't know why everyone on here doesn't like Logano. He seems like a nice kid to me. 173. 12345Dude posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "12345Dude, Ryan Truex may not have a ride next year, let alone a full-time ride. JGR announced that along with Sadler and Vickers running for the title, they will field a 3rd car that will be split between Hamlin, Kenseth, Darrell Wallace Jr., and Drew Herring, with no mention of Ryan Truex in their 2013 plans. And Mike Bliss is not in good equipment. TriStar Motorsports is a mediocre team that gets mediocre results from Eric McClure, it's just that Bliss is so great that he makes the team itself look good with his consistent top 15 runs." I didn't know that Paul. Thanks for the information. I'm a huge Mike Bliss fan myself and your right I wouldn't call TriStar decent equipment. And Eric McClure, he is just awful. Wasn't this race his first top 20 finish in like 6 years of full seasons in the nationwide series? Yet he has sponsorship every race. This site does a great job calling these untalented drivers out. Why aren't we doing that with Eric McClure? I believe he is worse than John Wrecks Weekly. 174. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was no "love tap" by Logano, he damn near caused Stenhouse to spin out. And his interview showed how unhappy he was. Its called racing, and he wouldn't even be where his is if it weren't for his rich Daddy. 175. 10andJoe posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >I don't think they should of allowed another green white checkered lap. It cost Kyle the race. Since Hornish was basically stopped on the backstretch trying to get his car refired, they really didn't have a choice. >Where do these guys keep getting sponsorship from? Family companies and connections. 176. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think we leave Eric alone because at least he doesn't wreck cars and has never been in above average equipment, both of which JWT has done in his career. He is what he is, which is a 20th-25th driver who stays out of the way of the faster cars. This was actually Eric's 15th career top 20 finish and his best non-restrictor plate finish. 177. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, I don't like Logano for a few different reasons. 1. He seems ungrateful to me. He never had to work his way up to where he is at. He was given superior equipment as a kid, and it helped him get his name out there as "the best thing since sliced bread". Compare that to guys like Brad Keselowski or Carl Edwards. They are grateful and thankful because they had to struggle through lower rankings before finally making it to the big time. When Joey wins a race, instead of being appreciative, he just seems arrogant to me. Like he really thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread. 2. He is a Cup guy who goes back to do NNS races, and beats up on the NNS regulars. Sure, a lot of guys have done this over the years. But it seems like Joey expects these NNS regulars to roll over for him just because he is a Cup guy. But the fact of the matter is that he ISN'T a Cup guy. He's a dominator on Saturdays, and is invisible on Sundays. And literally, he has beaten up on NNS regulars a few times this year. Remember Dover? He totally wiped out a lapped car on the backstretch as he was LEADING THE RACE. Throw in those two things about him with the fact that he has basically been mooching off of Denny and Kyle as teammates, and yeah, I don't like him. Do I think he is a good kid overall? Yeah, he seems nice when he is off the race track. Being a young guy myself, I could probably hang out with him if he wasn't at the track. But when he's at the race track, he suffers from this disease or something that makes him think he is better than he really is. 178. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On every single lap Ricky Stenhouse is closer to disaster than Brad K is to his steering wheel (seriously, I don't see how he stands it). 179. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.20.2012 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On every single lap Ricky Stenhouse is closer to disaster than Tim Richmond's junk is to Neil Bonnet's right ear in the promotional poster for The Winston in 1987. 180. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ HAHAHA! 181. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.20.2012 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is like the Finish of Martinsville all over again 182. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SPOILER ALERT! For anyone who missed the "Top 10 Joe Montana Games" list on NFL Network, they just showed a re-air. Here's the top 10: 1. The '81 NFC Championship Game against the Dallas Cowboys in what was truly a "changing of the guard" game. Famous for his game-deciding throw to Dwight Clark; "The Catch". 2. Beating the Eagles in week 3 of the '89 season in what was supposed to be a "changing of the guard" game after getting sacked 6 times. 3. Beating Steve Young while with the Chiefs in '94 4. Super Bowl XXIII when he led a comeback against the Bengals with three minutes to go to win 20-16. 5. The '79 Cotton Bowl against Houston when Montana's body temperature dropped below normal and the team had him eat chicken soup during halftime to get his body temp back to normal, and he led his team to victory when he came back. 6. Super Bowl XXIV when he threw 5 touchdowns in the team's 55-10 shellacking of the Broncos. 7. The '90 NFC Championship Game against the Giants (which they lost). His injury made it his final start as a 49er and last game for two seasons. 8. Super Bowl XIX against the Dan Marino-led Miami Dolphins. 9. His last career comeback against the Broncos in '94. 10. His 1st career comeback against the winless Ain'ts in '80. Honorable Mentions: - '83 NFC Championship Game against the Redskins. - '94 Monday Night Football game against the Broncos. 183. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.20.2012 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At Post 182: Number 9 was against the Oilers in the 1993 Divisional Playoff Game. 184. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Benjamin, thanks for the correction. They showed his game against the Broncos in '94 as an honorable mention prior to revealing #9, and I mistakenly put it down twice. 185. cjs3872 posted: 10.20.2012 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan (#149), what else could NASCAR have done? They were going to go green, but Sam Hornish, Jr.'s car had problems and altohugh he was able to make it back to the pits, NASCAR could not afford to risk going green with a car stopped on the backstretch. They did the right thing by extending the caution another lap, even if it ended up determing the outcome of the race. And Stenhouse's win showed again why many consider the drivers of yesteryear to be tougher competitors. Because they had to earn virtually everything they got. By having all his cars pit on lap 139, Richard Childress effectively allowed Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. to make up a self-imposed 2-lap deficit, because of the wave-around, which is why I don't like that rule, though it is a necessary evil of the rule that has the leaders up front on every restart. And while he won the race, and perhaps was given the championship today by the car owner of both his rivals, Stenhouse impresses me less and less by the race because of his reckless moves. It's one thin to be aggressive and another to be stupid, and Stenhouse's move on Joey Logano that crashed both of them was a reckless, illadvised, and totally unecessary move that put both of their races in jeopardy. I know a lot of people here don't like Joey Logano, but Logano had every right to be mad, and probably would have wrecked Stenhouse at a track where they run at slower speeds, and Stenhouse would have deserved it. But Logano proved the better man by NOT wrecking Stenhouse because of the potential dangers involved, especially given the situation revolving round concussions. Personally, I hope one of Childress' drivers wins the championship, but I think we can build the grave for Austin Dillon's chances for this year, though we can't officially put dirt on it yet. I say that because Childress' drivers actually race intelligently, something that Stenhouse is seeming to be more and more incapable of by the race. That's another reason why Roush probably can't wait to get Trevor Bayne in that car, because he'll only take risks when necessary (like at Texas last year), instead of Stenhouse, who takes unnecessary risks every five laps it seems. I think Stenhouse's crew chief Mike Kelley will be surprised at how infrequently his car will be involved in silly incideints next year, if I'm proven right. But Sadler races with the experience he gained from driving for teams like Robert Yates Racing, Evernham Motorsports, and the Wood Brothers (Bayne's current Cup team) for more than a decade on the Cup circuit, while Austin Dillon does the same thing, guided by all of Richard Childress' experience (nearly 45 years worth). They race intelligently, while Stenhouse races over his head quite often, and sooner or later, he's going to mess with the wrong driver, and that driver, whoever it is, will not be as kind to him as Logano was today. There's a time to ride and there's a time to race. Sadler and Dillon know that, but I'm starting to wonder if Stenhouse will ever learn, and if he doesn't his career will be a short one. At least he admitted his mistake today, unlike in past races. 186. murb posted: 10.20.2012 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with you on the Logano thing, cjs. He did have every right to be mad. It was all Stenhouse's fault. But at the same time, I thought Logano went a bit overboard with his showing of displeasure. The first thing he did (flip off Stenhouse) was perfectly acceptable. Even bumping him down the straightaway or whatever was fine too. But to nearly side swipe the 6 car ON PIT ROAD like that? That was absolutely uncalled for. None of that needs to be going on in the pits. And then, on the cool down, he just ran into the side of him and nearly spun him out. That also seemed pretty dangerous. I also agree about Stenhouse's recklessness too. He's got loads of talent, but I think he's just made way too many mistakes this year to be deserving of a championship, especially when you compare him to the rock solid Elliott Sadler. And as for how he will be in Cup next year, I thought DSFF's prediction of a "Jeff Gordon 1993 Style" season was just perfect. 187. 12345Dude posted: 10.20.2012 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFan: What interview did you see? He didn't seem upset to me. Merb: I can see your points about him always getting the best equipment and rich family. But Carl tried to KILL SOMEONE! Sure he did that at Dover but that was one race. He's not doing that every week. We all make mistakes sometimes. 188. Paul posted: 10.20.2012 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I could tell Logano wanted to wreck Stenhouse when he got to his back bumper on the green flag run following their incident. He turned down so he could get right behind Stenhouse on the straightaway and I think he thought about hooking him into the wall, but thought better of it and let it go. Then after the race I think the emotions he had with his Cup teammate running out of gas in the final corner and seeing the guy who put him in the wall undeservedly win the race got the best of him and so he hit Stenhouse's car after the race. It wasn't the right thing to do, but I can see why Logano was upset and why he did what he did. I know a lot of people (myself included) don't like seeing Cup drivers win Nationwide races, but no matter if this was a Cup race or Nationwide race, Logano was wronged by Stenhouse and let him no about it after the race. It's almost a shame that Stenhouse, despite shooting himself in the foot and costing himself two laps, not only wins the race, but cuts the differential in half between he and Sadler, going from 13 to 6 points back. Had Paul Menard not pitted, Stenhouse doesn't receive the wave around and isn't in position to get the "lucky dog" and get back on the lead lap. So RCR also shot itself in the foot by helping their title opponent by not using their 3rd car to their advantage, especially since there were a couple more caution periods and Menard wound up running out of fuel anyways. The part that amazes me the most is that even after wrecking himself, Stenhouse was still the fastest car on the track late in the race. He restarted around 16th when he got the "lucky dog" and after starting at the back of the field (per the restart rules), drove his way all the way up to the top six and took the lead after yet another restart and the leader running out of fuel on the last lap. I know it goes down as a win, but it was an ugly win that he did everything to lose, and yet still won because he got the wave around, the "lucky dog", had the fastest car, fresh tires, and the leader ran out of fuel in the final turn. It was a win he truly didn't deserve, and out of sheer luck and frequent cautions, won anyways. Had Menard not pitted, or had there not be so many cautions, or if the 15 laps down Hal Martin not raced the lead lap Scott Lagasse, Jr. and wreck both of them with 3 laps to go, we're looking at a 21st place finish for Stenhouse. 189. cjs3872 posted: 10.20.2012 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually murb, if Stenhouse has the kind of season that Jeff Gordon had in 1993, that would be much better than what I think he'll do, because he's mistake-prone, possibly the most mistake-prone driver I've ever seen in terms of unforced and unnecessary mistakes, and I"m not sure he'll be that competitve either next year with a team that led the points for a good part of this year. And I don't think he'll mesh that well with Jimmy Fennig either, especially when Fennig has to fix about 15 cars. Remember that Fenning has worked with the likes of Bobby Allison, Mark Martin, Kurt Busch, and Matt Kenseth, none of whom were known for wrecking very much. And if Stenhouse has the kind of season I think he'll have, it may also effect the other Roush teams because of all the cars he's liable to crash. It also wouldn't surprise me if Stenhouse drove Fennig into retirement, that's how rocky next season is likely to be for Stenhouse. If I had to predict right now where Stenhouse is likely to wind up in the points next year, I'd say from about 18th-22nd, and there are only about 25 cars with competitive speed. I doubt Stenhouse will be able to hold in the longer races, as well. I think next year could be a disaster for the #17 team. 190. 18fan posted: 10.20.2012 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, it seemed to me that they took a really long time cleaning up the Martin-Lagasse wreck. I know it was a big wreck, but it still seemed to be a very lengthy clean-up. 191. joey2448 posted: 10.20.2012 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #179 ' "On every single lap Ricky Stenhouse is closer to disaster than Tim Richmond's junk is to Neil Bonnet's right ear in the promotional poster for The Winston in 1987." HAHAHAHAHA!!!! I just googled the picture and lost my marbles! 192. Red posted: 10.20.2012 - 11:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's an interesting twist on the clutch QB debate - 4th Quarter Comeback Wins. The two QB's with the most comeback wins in NFL history (including playoffs) are supposed "chokers" Peyton Manning and Dan Marino: 1) Manning 37 2) Marino 36 3) Elway 35 4) Montana 31 5) Tarkenton 30 5) Favre 30 7) Testaverde 29 8) Unitas 27 9) Moon 26 10) Brady 25 Like NASCAR, football is plagued by tired old narratives that stick with players forever, whether or not they're actually true. While it's a fact that Montana and Brady have won more SB's than Peyton and Marino, they've also had better teams around them during their playoff runs. Here are the average points allowed by their defenses in playoff games: Montana - 18.57 Brady - 19.14 Manning - 20.89 Marino - 26.17 (!) Dan Marino's Dolphins played HORRIBLE defense in his playoff games, so of course he struggled to win. Peyton's defenses weren't as bad, but they were still worse than Brady's and Montana's. Considering how many playoff games are decided by a field goal or less (especially in Brady's case), those couple extra points per game make a big difference. Football is a TEAM sport, so it's silly to attribute championships to individual players. If Marino played for the 49ers, he probably would've won 4+ Superbowls. If Peyton played for the Patriots, he almost certainly would've won just as many rings as Tom. It's not that championships don't matter, it's just that CONTEXT matters more. 193. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The deal there Red is you have to compare their regular season stats to their playoff stats. This goes for any sport. For example, look up the regular season and playoff stats for Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain. As for Joey, after Ricky messed up, he swiped Ricky's car on the frontstretch after they both gathered it, swerved at his car while on pit road, bumped him on the track for the entire front stretch under green, bumped him on pit road under caution, then nearly wrecked after the race swiping him again. At what point do you just say "that's racin'"? Joey is nothing more than a spoiled brat from a rich family. For somebody who has embarrassed himself so badly in Cup over the past 4 season in the 2 time championship car, he has no right to feel superior to anyon. Yes it was a reckless move by Swervin Stenhouse. It happens. Get over it you silver spooned loser. 194. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad you see that joey2448 lol. That is actually relevant to today's NASCAR. People say stuff like "we need drivers like the Busch Brothers, they bring personality to the sport". No they don't, they bring nothing but embarrassment (today's very mature interview by Kyle notwithstanding). Tim Richmond and the rowdy folks back in the day brought personality. Can you imagine anyone doig something like that nowadays? The funniest thing is that, you just know when Neil looked at it and realized what had happened, he probably laughed his ass off. THAT is personality and fun. And another thing: Tim came from a rich family like Joey. But look at how different their personalities are. Joey is simply an entitled prick. 195. Red posted: 10.21.2012 - 12:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry to double post, but I also wanted to dispel the myth that Tom Brady steps it up in the playoffs while Peyton Manning gets worse: Brady Reg Season Rating: 96.4 Playoff Rating: 87.8 Difference: -8.6 Manning Reg Season Rating: 95.2 Playoff Rating: 88.4 Difference: -6.8 Again, the popular narrative is false. Brady's performance actually drops off more than Peyton's does once the postseason arrives. If you look their distribution of games, they've each had a few great ones, a few terrible ones, and a lot in between. Basically, Tom and Peyton have been equals in both the regular season and postseason. Remember, if Vinatieri misses a couple field goals, Brady could just as easily be 1-4 in Superbowls without doing anything different. How about Montana and Marino? Montana Reg Season: 92.3 Playoffs: 95.6 Difference: +3.4 Marino Reg Season: 86.4 Playoffs: 77.1 Difference: -9.3 As is turns out, Joe Cool really did turn it up in the playoffs, and that's especially impressive because of the quality of defenses he had to face in the postseason. Marino's dropoff was about the same as most other high profile QB's. So who stepped it up the most in the playoffs? Bart Starr Reg Season: 80.5 Playoffs: 104.8 Difference: +24.3 Terry Bradshaw Reg Season: 70.9 Playoffs: 83.0 Difference: +12.1 Kurt Warner Reg Season: 93.7 Playoffs: 102.8 Difference: +9.1 Bart Starr was simply legendary in the playoffs. To post a 104.8 rating back in the 1960's, playing on the Frozen Tundra of Lambeau Field, is just amazing. Bradshaw was so medicore in the regular season that I don't give his playoff jump all that much credit, plus he had the Steel Curtain behind him. Kurt Warner may be a borderline HoF candidate, but I believe his playoff performances should (and will) push him over the edge. 196. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think next year could be a disaster for the #17 team." You could be right, cjs. Obviously, we're gonna have to wait and see. The thing about next year is that it will be the first year in a while that actually has a little bit of new blood coming in. Stenhouse and Danica will both be in their first full time Cup seasons. So it will be interesting to see, because like I said, it's really been a couple years since we've had anyone noteworthy coming in as a full fledged rookie. 197. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 12:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, that average for Marino's defenses is skewed because of the '99 AFC Divisional Playoff game where the Dolphins lost to the Jaguars 62-7 in the most lopsided playoff game since the Bears beat the Redskins 73-0 in the 1940 NFL Championship Game. Of those 62 points, the Dolphins defense gave up 55 points, with the other 7 coming from a fumble recovery returned for a touchdown by the Jaguars. Take away the 55 points given up by Dolphins defense, and their average is down to 22.93 points per playoff game. It's still the highest of those four that you listed, but it's not quite as skewed. The saddest part of that blowout is that it turned out to be Marino's last game (as well as head coach Jimmy Johnson's last game), a game in which he was benched after the 1st half. In his final game, Marino completed just 11 of 25 passes for 95 yards, 1 touchdown, 2 interceptions, and had a fumble that was returned for a touchdown. 198. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 1:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's not just players, coaches also get judged based on their playoff record. Take Marty Schottenheimer and Jim Mora for example. Marty had a regular season record of 200-126-1 (59.3%), but also had a playoff record of 5-13 (27.8%). Mora had a regular season record of 125'106 (54.1%), but lost in all six of his playoff appearances. Both were highly respected coaches who turned things around for bad teams (Browns, Chiefs and Chargers for Marty; Saints and Colts for Mora), but their dismal playoff records have affected how their legacies are remembered. 199. cjs3872 posted: 10.21.2012 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red, one thing you're forgetting about where it concerns fourth quarter comeback wins, and that is how easy it is to bring a team from behind in the fourth quarter now, especially compared to the early and mid80s and before then. First, teams almost always play "prevent" defenses, which allow the teams to freely move the ball, even when they hadn't the entire game prior to that. as a result, the "prevent" defense only prevents a team from winning. If you watch the Super Bowl XXIII highlight film, you'll see a graphic illustration of what a "prevent" defense is. Secondly, it's incredibly easy for a QB to bring his team from behind now compared to 25+ years ago, because in the mid-to-late 80s, a rule was passed permitting a QB to intentionally ground, or down the ball to stop the clock, thereby losing only a down. Prior to that, he had to throw the ball somewhere in the vicinity of an eligible receiver, or risk being called for intentional grounding, which results in not only the down counting, but a loss of yardage, as well. Those two factors have resulted in a team actually wanting to be behind, rather than ahead in the final minutes. After all, other than John Unitas, who virtually invented the two-minute drill, the greatest come from behind QB in NFL history prior to 1980 was Roger Staubach (just ask 49ers, Vikings, and Redskins fans), and his name doesn't even appear on your list, Red. What does that say about how easy it is for a QB to bring his team from behind late? If I had to name the top five clutch QBs in NFL history, my choices would be Joe Montana, John Elway, Tom Brady, John Unitas, and Roger Staubach. Forget what the stats say, those are my top five clutch QBs in NFL history, with Eli Manning quickly moving up the board, even passing his brother Peyton in that regard. 200. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you've been wondering where I've been all day, I was at the race. It was AWESOME. Of course, it doesn't take too much from a race to please me. Unfortunately, I cannot attend tomorrow's race, but I had fun. You can't win them all, right? I was really hoping Paul Menard would win, because he and that #33 team deserved it. But that last caution doomed them. I certainly did not want Kyle Busch to win if Menard couldn't, so I was thrilled when he ran out of gas. I will admit that at the end, it was pretty much a "anybody but Kyle Busch" mindset for me. 201. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 1:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "After all, other than John Unitas, who virtually invented the two-minute drill, the greatest come from behind QB in NFL history prior to 1980 was Roger Staubach (just ask 49ers, Vikings, and Redskins fans)" As a Viking fan, I can attest to this. Staubach led the Cowboys to 23 game-winning 4th quarter drives, with 17 of them coming in the final two minutes. Perhaps his most famous game-winner came in the 1975 NFC Championship Game against the Vikings, when he threw a 50-yard touchdown pass to Drew Pearson with seconds remaining for the game-winning score (although I still believe Pearson should have been called for offensive pass interference on the play). Afterwards Staubach said that he prayed a "Hail Mary" after he threw the ball, and to this day that play is called the "Hail Mary". 202. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 1:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awesome stats Red. Bart Starr is so underrated historically it is awful. I shudder to think how many people under the age of 30 or 35 think Brett Favre is the best Packers QB ever. 203. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Forget what the stats say," I think too many people judge players by their statistics rather than by how good of a player and a leader they are. Two examples come immediately to my head. Joe Namath ended his career with more interceptions (220) than touchdown passes (173), while Mark Sanchez as of now has 63 touchdown passes to 57 interceptions. If I'm a Jets fan, regardless of the fact that Namath has a much lower touchdown-to-interception ratio than Sanchez, I'm taking Namath every day of the week. Another example is that David Carr holds the NFL record for most consecutive completions in a game (22), led the league in completion percentage in 2006 (68.9%), and has a higher career completion percentage than the likes of Dan Marino, John Elway, Otto Graham, Bart Starr, and the guy he currently backs-up, Eli Manning. Just because he has a higher completion percentage than those five champions/Hall of Famers, doesn't mean I would prefer to have David Carr as my quarterback than any of those five, because statistics don't take into account other factors such as strength of opponent, importance of game, or how important the play was. For all we know, the majority of Carr's (and many other quarterbacks' completion percentage) largely involved short yard passes that didn't get first downs, touchdowns, or change games. In fact, if you ever get the chance, look up the NFL career completion percentage leaders. You'll see a lot of average quarterbacks like Jon Kitna, Brian Griese, and Trent Green up near the top of the list. 204. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bart Starr may be the most selfless quarterback in NFL history. I think a large factor in why he doesn't receive the recognition he deserves is because he didn't seek out recognition. It wasn't about Bart Starr, it was about the Green Bay Packers, and Bart knew that and always played the game for the betterment of the team because he knew that winning was what won championships, not individual play (quite contrasting to Brett Favre, wouldn't you agree?). Not only that, but he was a great leader among men. I can't remember the exact game (I think it was the '62 NFL Championship Game against the Giants), but one time the team's star running back Jim Taylor (who I think is one of the top 5 greatest running backs of all-time) was cheap-shotted by an opposing player after a touchdown and was about to deck the guy when Bart ran in and escorted Taylor off the field because he wouldn't allow Taylor to get himself ejected/penalized and hurt the team in the process. One time in one of his first years under head coach Vince Lombardi ('59 or '60) Bart was getting chewed out during practice after a tipped ball resulted in an interception. Bart then asked to see Lombardi in his office and told him that if he wanted to chew him out to do so in private so that it doesn't diminish his ability to lead his team. Lombardi honored Bart's wishes and never chewed him out in front of his teammates again, and the two had a great father-son relationship for the remainder of their tenures in Green Bay as their differing personalities complimented one another perfectly. I think what hurts Bart Starr historically is that he was viewed as a cog in the "Lombardi Packer" machine, which I think is very unfair to Starr because he played a significant role in the Packer dynasty. If I could pick out one thing that describes Bart Starr's legacy, it would be his game-winning drive in the 1967 NFL Championship Game against the Dallas Cowboys, in a game forever known as the Ice Bowl. With the temperature at -15 degrees and a wind chill of -48 degrees to start the game, on a field that's heating system froze and pretty much made the field an ice rink, the Packers found themselves down 17-14 with 4:50 remaining, needing 68 yards to score. In what I believe to be the greatest drive in football history, Starr made three key completions to drive down the field, then handing the ball off three more times, only to be stopped at the one-yard line. Starr then called their last timeout with 16 seconds to confer with Lombardi about which play they should run. Starr, after conferring with right guard Jerry Kramer as to whether he could get the proper footing on the icy surface (to which he said "yes"), told Lombardi he wanted to run the ball up the middle for a touchdown, rather than kick a field goal to tie, to which Lombardi replied "Run it, and let's get the hell out of here!" Starr called his own number, and through a key block by Kramer, sneaked the ball into the endzone for the game-winning touchdown. By the end of the game, the temperature had dropped to -20 degrees with a wind chill of -78 degrees. I'm from Minnesota and could barely handle the -30 degree wind chill we had a couple years ago, and this guy led his team 68 yards to win the NFL Championship in -78 degree weather. For that reason alone, he deserves to be among the top five clutch quarterbacks of all-time. 205. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For that reason alone, he deserves to be among the top five clutch quarterbacks of all-time." I forgot to add this: ...and cements his legacy as one of the greatest quarterbacks of all-time. 206. Spen posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David: 1960-1969 is now up at the same pagr. 207. Spen posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Page, that is. 208. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.21.2012 - 7:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul I think the Cowboys that year deserved to win that game against the Vikings Because when the went on to Face the Steelers in Superbowl X They went toe to toe with them and nearly beat them it was a true clash of titans. Now if the Vikings had won that game and faced the Steelers in Superbowl X the Steelers would have absolutely obliterated them and run the Vikings out of the Orange Bowl and into the Atlantic ocean. 209. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @206 Ah, thank you, Spen. 210. Eric posted: 10.21.2012 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You forget to mention one of the reasons why it is more easy for a Quarterback to do a comeback. The Mel Blount rule was created in 1978. Remember the Mel Blount rule is a rule that prevents any defensive player from jamming an offensive player five yards past the line of scrimmage. That rule also caused passing the football to be more effective for Quarterbacks around the league. That is why Air Coryell because so well known due to the fact that type of an offense wouldn't have worked before the Mel Blount Rule as well. 211. cjs3872 posted: 10.21.2012 - 12:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, the "Mel Blount Rule" may have helped as well, but I don't think it's as significant in terms of comeback as the others I mentioned. In fact, another rule passed that same year, the one allowing passes to be tipped from one offensive player directly to another had greater impact in terms of comebacks than the Mel Blount Rule did. And Coryell's offense in St. Louis were among the best in the mid-70s, so his offesive schemes would have been just as good anyway, though that rule certainly helped. And Paul (#201) and Benjamin Lowe (#208), the "Hail Mary Game" was the 1975 NFC Divisional Playoff, not the NFC Championship Game. A week later, the Cowboys crushed the Rams 37-7 in Los Angeles in the NFC Championship Game to get to Super Bowl X. And also Paul, I don't think Marino was benched in that playoff game against Jacksonville, the last in his career, as much as the fact that, with the game out of reach, Jimmy Johnson didn't want to see Marino get injured in his final game and not be able to leave the field on his feet. In fact, Johnson was criticized for not taking Marino out earlier after leading his team to their only points of that game. 212. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nicole Briscoe thinks that Tony Stewart can still win the championship because he won 3 of the last 4 races last year. #BSPN 213. Red posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I totally agree that 4th quarter comebacks are not what they used to be. Particularly in 2011 and 2012, it seems that offenses can literally move the ball at will in the final minutes of a game, both because of the rules and the idiotic prevent defenses. However, from 1980-2010, comebacks are at least roughly comparable enough to make a list of them worth posting, if for nothing more than anecdotal reasons. As far as the stats vs. intangibles debate, I think you have to use both to make an informed argument. Stats, when properly used, provide a solid, objective baseline. Then, we can use subjective reasoning to put those stats in proper context and accurately evaluate the player. By the way, Pro Football Reference has era-adjusted QB stats, which are based on the IQ scale, with 100 being average. These are the only stats that I really take seriously, because modern passing numbers are almost laughably inflated compared to even 10 or 20 years ago. For example, Roger Staubach ranks 29th in raw Passer Rating, but stands 6th in Passer Rating+ (era-adjusted), which of course makes a lot more sense. The highest all-time in Rating+ is Otto Graham, the best QB from the early days of football. DSFF, I agree that Bart Starr is criminally underrated. He's in my all-time top five. Paul, I just read a terrific article that sets the record straight on how great Joe Namath really was. Here's the link: http://www.footballperspective.com/joe-namath-has-become-footballs-most-misunderstood-quarterback/ 214. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Aric Almirola is leading the Cup race. I'm checking my window for airborne Sus scrofae. 215. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awesome seeing that light blue #43 car up front. 216. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Aric looks fast!!! It would be great to see him and that car in victory lane. But the fastest guy so far looks to be Biffle. I'm expecting him to have a big day. 217. loomer posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only one in the same ball park as Almirola so far is Biffle 218. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for Casey Mears. Looks like a right front went down. 219. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Please don't screw this up Aric... 220. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch spun himself out racing too hard trying to keep up with Almirola. 221. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This reminds me of the 2004 Kansas race, when Joe Nemechek (a non-Chase driver) led a bunch of laps and ended up winning in a great finish over Ricky Rudd. Hopefully Aric can stay up front all day and have a shot at duplicating that win by Nemechek. 222. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like Dinger crashed hard, but we can't tell cause BSPN is still at freaking commercial. 223. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Both A.J. and Casey crashed after blowing right front tires in turn 2 after 31 laps. I don't think that's a coincidence. 224. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yep, he did crash hard. Tough break, he was running really well. With Dale Jr coming back to the 88 next week, it will be interesting to see if Finch puts Regan in the 51, or if he sticks with AJ. I think AJ has done a good job in there the past couple weeks. 225. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Feel free to get your heads out of your asses." - Tony Busch... I mean... Tony Stewart 226. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony's one to talk. After throwing a block at Talladega and wrecking more than half the field, he has no right no bitch for the remainder of the season. I don't know what the BSPN talking heads are seeing. The second groove clearly isn't there. Just because they were 4-wide on the restart doesn't mean there's any grip above the bottom groove. 227. Anonymous posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony is PISSED, he took his anger out on Jeff Burton for some reason. 228. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Classy interview from A.J. Allmendinger. This sport needs more guys like him. Oh and now Tony "I never have my head up my ass" Stewart just wrecked Jeff Burton. Way to go there, Champ. 229. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like a crash fest today...four cautions already in the first 100 laps. 230. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He's mad because they left the wrench on the rear window on the last pit stop. So I guess he got a "removing equipment from the box" penalty. And yeah, he just drove into JB's left rear. Almirola seriously looks good today. He was catching Jimmie there before the caution came out. 231. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's Johnson, Almirola, and everybody else. 232. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan Smith started 39th and is running in 9th. Track position is key today, and for him to drive up through the field like that shows how well his car is and how well he's adapted to this one groove track. 233. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Almirola's great day is over. 234. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution out for Almirola hitting the wall. Damn. 235. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, what a shame... 236. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There definitely is a tire problem today. 237. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Keselowski's your 2012 champion, folks! 238. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh oh!!!! 239. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson hits the wall. 240. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 241. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 48 car heavily damaged. 242. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now, it's a wide open race. The 48 and the 43 were the two fastest cars, so now with both of them out, it's really anybody's race to win. 243. Jocke Persson posted: 10.21.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Five-time won't get it this-time. 244. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What I mean is I love it for Brad. I'm not one of those "JJ wins too much, I hope he wrecks" guys. I wish he'd have just blown an engine. 245. cjs3872 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, as I predicted, the more conservative drivers seem to be prospering today. With Matt Kenseth, Clint Bowyer, Jeff Gordon, Paul Menard, and Regan Smith all among the leaders, it's obvious that with the tire issues going on, which was the basis of that prediction, this would be a thinking man's race. The fastest car definately will not win this one, but the most intelligent drivers are the ones prospering today. 246. New14 & 88Fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't count 5-time out just yet, things like this tend to focus that bunch and motivate them to kick everyone's asses even harder. 247. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We know DSFF, we saw you gloat about JJ on the Charlotte page. His two HMS teammates Gordon and Regan have methodically worked their way up through the field. I think they may have the cars to beat by the end. 248. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Labonte hits the wall, he got help from David Gilliland. 249. joey2448 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now wait a minute, don't count Jimmie out yet. Remember what happened yesterday in the Nationwide race.... 250. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good Lord, I haven't been this nervous about anything since the 2005 colllege basketball title game. I haven't wanted anything for somebody this bad in forever. 251. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Montoya hit the wall and came to pit road. No camera. 252. Jocke Persson posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #43. Thanks Paul 253. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard is running 2nd and no one has noticed it until now. That's pretty much been his Cup season this year. He's been pretty much invisible. 254. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was only a matter of time before that happened... 255. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica tears up another one! 256. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, there goes the green car. 257. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Her fault. 258. Jocke Persson posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can already imagine Danica's radio: "What the f**k was that?" she always says that 259. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It almost looked like Danica wrecked Cassill on purpose. 260. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cassill passes Danica cleanly, she turns him entering turn 1, then wrecks herself. That's justice. 261. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank you Danica for overcorrecting, now there will be a long caution and the 48, which was laready moving forward, can get their car totally fixed. And she totally screwed herself anyways 262. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Greg Zipadelli told Danica "You know better than to do that." I don't know if that's completely true, but at least he didn't make an excuse for her. 263. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) She is not very smart behind the wheel at all. 264. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm glad she wrecked after all that. She needs to learn that casual contact like that happens and not to take it so seriously. Also, I just want to express how bad I feel for Tony Gibson. He's a pretty good crew chief, but now he's gonna have to waste time trying to teach her not to do stupid things like this. 265. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Have you guys noticed that Danica has had problems with four drivers that no one else has had a problem with? Two years ago it was with Michael McDowell, last year it was with Ryan Truex, at Bristol it was with Regan Smith, and now it's Landon Cassill. 266. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ And James Buescher two years ago. 267. Baker posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just tuned in and saw Johnson crashed Yankees lost and Johnson is slipping. I'm a happy sports fan right now. 268. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If that had happened to me I would have calmly walked up to her and punch her right in the face. 269. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Best part: Landon has no damage and her car is torn all to shit. What an idiot! 270. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently as Danica was going to the garage, she dropped a bunch of fluid on pit road that went into the pit stalls of Kyle Busch and Jimmie Johnson. You might say her water broke. 271. Daniel posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #265, Didn't she also bump Morgan Shepherd on pit road a couple of years ago? 272. Jocke Persson posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Got to hand it to 48, driving 4th now behind the safety car. 273. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Landon Cassill: "Rule number one in stock car racing is to learn how to wreck someone without wrecking yourself." Awesome. 274. RaceFanX posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Patrick ran as high as the top-20 before the crash and looked to be on pace to match or beat her career-best 25th a few races earlier at Chicagoland. She had fallen back to 25th, just passed by the wrecked but seemingly well-repaired car of Jimmie Johnson, when she crashed with Cassill. While Landon made a great save Danica rightfully got chewed out for the stunt by her crew chief Greg Zippadelli. Zippy told her "You know better than that" as a way of showing disappointment. Danica now has eight Cup starts matching those of Cup's previous female driver Shawna Robinson. She has not beaten Robinson's career-best finish of 24th in the 2002 Daytona 500 though. 275. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Daniel, I don't remember that. Do you remember which race that was? 276. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #275: I believe Danica bumped Shepherd at New Hampshire a couple of years ago. Nine cautions and still 100 laps to go...What's the caution record here? Wasn't it 13 in the first race here? I think that record may very well fall today. 277. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like Danica's upset that she's out of the race and Landon's not. First, why do you want to knock someone out of a race? And second, you knocked yourself out of the race. Deal with it. 278. Jocke Persson posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have to stand up for myself" -Danica, 2 minutes ago. 279. Baker posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So I was told Johnson wreck and has heavy damage. The race comes back on and he is running 3rd? 280. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The bummer is I am out of the race and he isn't". Who's fault is that? Dumbass. And she slammed him on the frontstretch. Her sense of entitlement is ridiculous. And totally unfounded. 281. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Aric's back up to 6th. Maybe he still has a shot. Tony spins. You've always played fair? Really? What about when you totally wrecked Hornish after the checkers at Talladega? That didn't look very fair to me. What about when you called out and criticized your fellow rookie teammate after he barely touched you and made you spin at Daytona? Yeah, he made a small mistake, but the way you handled it didn't seem very fair either. Danica, please shut your mouth. You don't know what your doing in these stock cars yet, so stop acting like you do know what your doing. 282. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 10 cautions. How many are they going to have today? 15? More? 283. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Almirola stayed out and actually gained two positions on the restart and is in 2nd. Ambrose forgot where the brake pedal was and plowed into Logano and took out Trevor Bayne in the process. 284. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good lord, what a wreckfest. 285. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a wreckfest. 286. What?? posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tires are too damn hard for the speeds.... 287. jabber1990 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) what did I miss? I take a nap and the first thing I wake up to is Danica doing a post-race interview (is it weird that it took only 2 notes of her voice to figure out it was Danica and that it was a post-wreck interview) 288. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah, add Sam Hornish, Jr. to that list. Thanks murb. I just watched the replay of her and Morgan Shepherd at Loudon 2010. First off, no offense to Morgan, but if you're in a JRM car and a 70-year old man is passing you, something's wrong with you. Secondly, she was on the gas with the left front fender knocked in as she was trying to catch him, so she has no regard for her equipment either. The fact is is that after two and a half years, she doesn't get it and she never will. No caution for Almirola's spin. Nice job. 289. What?? posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow 43 don't rank high enough for a caution 290. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DAMN IT!!!! SO CLOSE TO THE LEAD AGAIN!!!!! 291. joey2448 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 13 cautions is the record for a Cup race here, in 2001. 292. John Royal posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol at NASCAR caution policy consistency. 293. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only safe place to be is up in the top-5 a few laps after a restart, but right front blowouts are a concern. 12-14 cautions 294. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now there's a caution for Biffle smacking the wall. Had they just thrown a caution for Almirola's spin, Biffle's car doesn't get torn up. 295. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Someone tell these drivers to stop driving with their heads up their asses. 296. What?? posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 16 is a high ranker 297. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now Biffle wrecks!!!!! Unbelievable!!!! 298. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hard crash for Biffle. 11 cautions...Holy crap. They can't even drive more than 4 laps without crashing now...this is getting near comedic how BAD this is. 299. 12345Dude posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just turned the race on when Danica made a fool of herself. Was watching the Bills game. If feel like I want to beat myself to death with a hammer. 11 Years of this! I saw one winning season. 9-7, last game got killed by the Steelers 3 stringers and missed the playoffs. Anyways, what happen to Jimmie? 300. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeez. Maybe these guys need to not drive so hard on cold tires, because it seems like that is what the problem is. 301. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, Jimmie was back in traffic after taking the wave around for Almirola hitting the wall, and drove the car a little too hard and spun and hit the wall. 302. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 12345Dude, Jimmie wrecked himself. About 7 or 8 different guys (at least) have wrecked themselves by just losing it off the corner. Track conditions and tire compounds are not mixing well at all today. 303. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Lol at NASCAR caution policy consistency." ~ Brilliant!!! At least this may not be a fuel mileage race, if everyone pits with under caution with 35-45 laps to go. 304. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul beat me to it, lol Seriously, I can't remember a race recently where conditions have been this wild. Biffle's got more problems as he is throwing up smoke under caution. He's got more damage than originally thought I guess. 305. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Right on 18fan, the tires are so cold for five or six laps after a resart, but you see cars fanning out almost immediately after their spotter yells green, green, green. In addition to the cars venturing down to the frontstretch apron after every restart. 306. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One destroyed race car for Kyle Busch. 12 cautions...This is even worse than the FIRST race here. 307. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Newman wrecks Kyle. CJS said it best at the beginning of this weekend when he said the flagman better get a good arm workout in, lol 308. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Are we seriously going to get 20 cautions here...? 309. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Newman got into the back of Kyle after Kyle got loose, sending Kyle into the wall. Then Newman cut down into Hornish and tore up both cars. It happened right in front of Brad too, who just made it through. 310. Jocke Persson posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hahaha this race is brilliant !!! Now #18 went. And Keselowski JUST made it. 311. New14 & 88Fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very close call for Bad Brad, Newman totally dumped shrub and took himself and Hornish out with him. 312. What?? posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Close call for Brad 313. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a racing deal, Kyle was already loose before Newman hit him. Brad is missing every wreck, no matter how close he is to it. I think it is just his year. 314. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This kind of reminds me of the 2005 Coca-Cola 600 when there were a record 22 cautions on the repaved track. 315. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 83 to go? At this rate, we might hit 22. 316. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At the rate we're going, we're going to have people like Cassill and Kvapil getting top 10 finishes! 317. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Timmy Hill is still on the lead lap. 'Atta boy. 318. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Tony, you have a pair of winners don't you? They need to learn how to wreck others without tearing their own shit up. At least Newman got Kyle too which is more than Danica can say. 319. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Goodyear's rocks known as 'tires' strike again. 320. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh, I was at the '05 World 600. That was a LONG night. 321. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oops Rick Hendrick... 322. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If we had 400 laps instead of 267 laps then it is quite possible the 22 record cautions might be put on alert, but thankfully this is a 400 mile race, not the Coke 600. 323. jabber1990 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MRN-"we are waiting outside the truck for Kyle to come out for an interview" good luck with that MRN 324. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait a minute, I thought Junior WAS cleared for Martinsville. Now Rick Hendrick says he won't know until Tuesday. Why are there two different stories being told? 325. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch is promising to wreck Newman before the year is over... 326. Jocke Persson posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was the 2005 Coca-Cola 600 the longest Cup race ever? 5:13:52. 327. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Funny how a majority of the Nascar media proclaimed the 'wild card' was Talladega, but some in the media knew Kansas would turn out like it has. 328. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good point Paul. "Wait a minute, I thought Junior WAS cleared for Martinsville. Now Rick Hendrick says he won't know until Tuesday. Why are there two different stories being told?" Perhaps, the narrative is evolving hour by hour. 329. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #326 I think the longest Cup races ever were the first few Southern 500s. 330. 12345Dude posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok thanks murb for the answer. And just when I was impressed by Kyle after the nationwide race. This is what I said about Kurt Busch a while ago. Jerks and Jerks, Douches are Douches, Immature people are immature etc. etc. People don't change. They just don't. You can say "the new Kyle" or the "new Kurt" as much as you want. People don't change once your 27 and 33. 331. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like how Jeff Gordon has been in the top five for like 30 laps, yet they haven't even mentioned him. 332. joey2448 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, the '05 Coke 600 didn't feature a repaved Charlotte track, I think it was just the tires that were causing all the wrecks that night. NASCAR had the track ground before the fall race that year, and that was a debacle, as it was almost always 30 or so laps before a car would blow a tire. Seriously, I remember the NBC guys counting something like exactly 29 green laps between each caution. I feel like we're about to hit the long green run... 333. joey2448 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Before that interview with Rick Hendrick, I had read a few Twitter posts regarding the announcement. I think they just jumped the gun on whether or not Junior is ready...I think there's a 90 percent chance he'll be racing at the paperclip. Also, it was the 2006 Coke 600 that featured the newly repaved track. 334. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks that way, but I REALLY doubt they'll run green to the finish. I can't be the only one who has a feeling Menard is going to win this race and we'll be seeing the "Paul Menard Empire" celebrating... 335. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now that most of the wreck-prone drivers are out, we may have a long green flag run. Thanks joey2448 for the correction. I knew they changed Charlotte in '05, but listed the wrong race. 336. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If this race comes down to a long green run on fuel mileage, I'd be SHOCKED considering how many cautions we have had. 337. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't mind seeing Menard win. I like Mark Martin, but I'd rather Harry Gant's record for oldest Cup winner not be broken. 338. Peter posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come on Regan it would be so sweet to see you win! 339. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Third time finishes it off for Almirola... 340. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DAMN! I guess it just wasn't meant to be for Almirola. Hard hit. 341. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me, it looks like Kasey has the car to win. Hard hit for Aric. He's officially done. But he gets my "Badass of the Race" award today, because he drove one badass race. 342. dimka11 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This caution will long 343. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It never happens when you are mired in midpack all day and just want your race to end, it always happens when you have a good run going that you need. That sentence describes Aric Almirola's year perfectly. 344. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is going to be a nerve wracking 50 laps. 345. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 13 cautions right now. I'm predicting that we'll end it with about 17. 346. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Almirola is brought back by RPM for 2013, this race may be what keeps his job. 347. 12345Dude posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This is going to be a nerve wracking 50 laps." You can say that again! Does anyone here thing Bowyer can get in the title hunt with this race? 348. Jocke Persson posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Everybody, just think if Dale jr had been in this race and crashed yet again (possible scenario since everybody crashes now apparently!). I mean if he would have kept his concussion a secret and raced anyway. If something would have happened to him in THIS race, i'm worried about what the outcome would have been. 349. John Royal posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Johnson will win this race and a championship. . 350. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It sounds like both he and Ambrose will be back with RPM next year. They just resigned with Ford, and Petty said they are working on resigning both drivers as well. If they keep churning out cars like that for the 1.5 milers, they might even get a win and be Chase contenders. 351. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing I worry though is that RPM will be 3rd in line for Roush-Yates engines in 2013, after Roush and Penske. 352. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's true Paul. It will be interesting to see. I seriously have no idea who will win this race. 353. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It must be a great day to be a member of the small Paul Menard Empire. 354. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan Smith is doing awesome behind the wheel of that #88 car. Any regrets, Furniture Row? 355. Peter posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who will wreck next? 356. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hornish hits the wall. 357. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hornish will wreck next. 358. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Track record setting caution right there. 359. Peter posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Called that one = Hornish 360. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Track record for cautions, and a new season record for most cautions in one race. 361. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Who will wreck next?" I was gonna make a random prediction of Kurt Busch, but instead, his former car with Sam Hornish brought out the caution. 362. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Everyone from 15th on back pits. 363. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hood up on Mark Martin's car. 364. 12345Dude posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy Regan is doing so good. Take that Furniture Row. They buried Regan saying how they deserved so much better. Surprised no one is talking about Kyle going off on Newman. I guess people are just used to it now. 365. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Next wreck is Kurt Busch (nothing to do with your post, murb). 366. Peter posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is Danica driving every car today? 367. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What happened to Kahne? All of a sudden he's running 6th when he was 2nd when the caution came out. 368. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, we're going to Martinsville next week, so it should be interesting to see if Newman and Kyle get near each other on the short track. 369. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, Kasey Ambrose'd himself. 370. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Indeed, Kurt Busch has hit the wall. 371. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, We called it David. 372. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) KA-BOOM!!! 373. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Do you two have psychic powers? 374. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Great job Matt Kenseth! 375. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson and Keselowski break even today. Timmy Hill finishes on the lead lap in his 3rd career start. 376. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Take that, Jack!!! 377. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Take that Jack. 378. New14 & 88Fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Go Matt Go!! 379. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For once, I am the who is grammatically incorrect. 380. Peter posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is it just me or does Jimmie look sick? 381. 12345Dude posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Damn right, take that Jack! 2 Chase wins!! 382. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stewart's bitching about Kasey Kahne for who knows what reason. Timmy Hill gives FAS Lane Racing their first non-restrictor plate/non-road course lead lap finish. 383. Bronco posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan Smith 7th as a substitute driver. Yet he doesn't have a Cup ride for next year while Danica Patrick has one where she will finish 30th in on a weekly basis. 384. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well Ford, you are losing that class act and picking up a tool in Logano. How do you feel? And hoow awesome do you think The Coach is feeling? 385. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Regan Smith was terrible on restarts all race, and that last one cost him a top five finish. 386. joey2448 posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright let's see how shitty a job Sportscenter does at summarizing the race...they always talk about the stuff that's not important... 387. Bronco posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So much for the "Kenseth is being sabotaged" theory. 388. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What was Stewart saying? 389. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Kenseth and Gibbs are perfect for each other. Neither of them pretend to be something they're not, and both of them are class acts. Meanwhile, Joey and Roush are perfect for each other (I realize that Joey won't be driving for RFR) because both of them are pricks who for some reason are loved by the media. 390. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, he was saying over MRN that he didn't appreciate Kasey side-drafting off of him near the end of the race (even though Kasey was clearly faster) and said he won't be helping out his satellite teammate the rest of the season. Again, this coming from the guy who said he'd wreck Matt Kenseth every chance he got, only to retract that statement a week earlier, so I wouldn't pay much attention to this. 391. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Both BK Racing and EGR cars finish in the top 20. 392. BON GORDON posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson's wrecked equipment STILL better than Jeff Gordon's. I hate cautions. It got so annoying. Very, very disappointed over 10th place as well. I thought he had a potential Top Five car. Nope, of course not. Thank god Martinsville is next weekend. Gordon can actually win there. 393. Spen posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And both teams beat Logano. I hate to use modern Internet-speak, but the only phrase that sums up my feelings on this is "LOL!". 394. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) At least Ford is also getting the hottest talent in the sport right now in Brad. Toyota is the real winner. Also, how about Mark and Matt being teammates again (JGR and MWR work as a team)? Matt can barely hold it together in victory lane, trying not to cry cause he is leaving the people who have gone to war with him for the last 14 years because that is how much he cares, and Joey goes into minor league races and whines like a little girl in all of them. As for Brad, I don't know how to feel about this race. On one hand he caught a hell of a break because he didn't have that great of a car and JJ had the best car. But damn, he tore the whole back of the car off. Oh well, I'll take a draw. Surprisingly optimistic about his chances of gaining points at Martinsville. 395. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haha. It's only appropriate that "sliced bread" finished behind both burger cars. There's a metaphor in there somewhere. Be honest guys, does anyone think that Junior could have started 39th and driven to the top five on this track the way Regan Smith did today? 396. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Stewart's bitching about Kasey Kahne for who knows what reason." WHY? What the hell is Tony's problem? He should be happy that he salvaged a top five after spinning out like that. Also, instead of wasting time bitching, why not have a talk with that idiot that you have driving the 10 car? I agree, JGR has to be ecstatic about bringing in Kenseth. I've been saying it a lot recently, but by them just swapping out Logano for a champion like Kenseth, and bringing in another class act in Elliott Sadler at the same time, it makes their organization a hell of a lot more respectable. Denny Hamlin's personality is even maturing too. It's addition by subtraction. I honestly think that JGR might be my new favorite team starting next year. It will be a travesty if Regan Smith doesn't have a ride for the rest of the year. He's looking pretty good for a full time ride with one of JRM's NNS cars (I guess it's the 7 car that Miss Bummer is vacating) next year. But he deserves to be doing something for the last few races of this year. This is completely far fetched, but I think it would be awesome if JRM just let him run a third car for the remaining races so he could get a head start on next year. He could drive the 5 car. And he could probably contend for a win at somewhere like Phoenix or Homestead if given the opportunity. 397. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most likely, Regan will drive the #51 when/if Junior comes back. I don't know where A.J. Allmendinger goes from here, but he deserves a full-time ride somewhere for 2013. 398. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're probably right, Paul. But if I was Finch, I think I'd have kind of a hard time choosing between Regan and AJ. Regan has been stellar in the 88, but AJ's two runs in the 51 were just as good if not better than any of the runs that Kurt Busch had in that car. Like you said, they'll probably go with Regan. As for AJ, I think a good move for him would be to go back down into NNS a lot like how Regan is doing to reinvent himself. There could be some decent rides open as well with the vacated 2 car for RCR, or maybe somewhere at a place like Turner Motorsports. 399. cjs3872 posted: 10.21.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see that others have said that the tire compound was too hard for the track today? What else could NASCAR and Goodyear have done? If hey had brought a grippier tire, there would have been a replay of the 2005 fall race at Charlotte when the right front tire could not even last half a fuel run, or the 2008 Brickyard 400. They have to bring the hardest com[pound tire on a fresh pave, or we would see guys crash every 30 laps to due tire failures because the speeds are more than the tires can stand on a 1.5 mile track. heck, even with the hard tire, tht was happening. When the best car on the track (Aric Almirola in this case) suffers a tire failure, you know there's an issue with speed and tires. And has anyone realized that most of the crashes not caused by the early tire falures were caused by guys driving over their heads. Aside from incidents with Almirola, Allmenger, and Mears, Kyle Busch, Greg Biffle, Jimmie Johnson, and Marcos Ambrose were among those that crashed or caused crashes by driving over their heads. The crash started by Ambrose was the dumbest one of the entire race, when he just flat ran over Joey Logano, and Trevor Bayne paid the price. Why nobody has brought that incident up, I don't know. And as for the late-race incident between Ryan Newman and Kyle Busch, which also ruined the days for Sam Hornish, Jr. and Kurt Busch because of the tire problems they later suffered which we derived from that crash, anyone could have seen that coming. On the backstretch just seconds prior to that crash, Kyle Busch put a block on Ryan Newman. you knew retaliation was coming for that. Newman is one of those old school drivers that will not tolerate someone blocking them like that, and he showed his displeasure. Did he mean to ruin the days of both Busch brothers, Hornish, and himself as a result? Of course not, but he also wanted to show his displeasure about being blocked viciously like that. And as for Jimmie Johnson being faster than Jeff Gordon, even with a damaged car. That's a combination of thef act that Gordon's cars are chronically slow on these kinds of tracks, which is magnified by the fact that Gordon is very hesitant about pushing the throtle on these ultra-fast tracks. The practice sheets show that. Regan Smith's performance shows me that Gordon's car may be just as fast as the other Hendrick cars, but Gordon himself just doesn't want to push the throttle down on such a high-speed track, especially in a race where there was a high number of crashes, especially in light of the crash he had at Chicago when the throttle hung at 190 MPH. It appears that Gordon himself is holding that team back on this style of track, but he's among the handful of favorites for Martinsville, count on it. And it figured that Matt Kenseth, one of the most conservatve, smooth, and patient drivers on the crcuit, would be the one that wins on such a day of carnage, confusion, and controversy, because Kenseth, just like David Pearson a couple of generations ago, and Darrell Waltrip a generation ago, just rides quietly until it's time, but when it's time and he's got a car capable of challenging, he's always up there. But Kenseth's performance should not have been a big surprise, considering he's easy on equipment, and because he had the fastest car in the final practice session. Given the history of the #17 car, with drivers such as Pearson, Darrell Waltrip, and Kenseth, it's going to be strange to see a driver who races exactly the opposite of the smooth styles exhibited by those three champions, driving that car number next year. 400. Robert Nelson posted: 10.21.2012 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Points standings with Formula One points system. Without the Chase: Jimmie Johnson 291.5 Denny Hamlin 266 Brad Keselowski 246 Matt Kenseth 224 Greg Biffle 198 Clint Bowyer 196 With the Chase: 1 Brad Keselowski 77 2 Jimmie Johnson 74 3 Denny Hamlin 59 4 Clint Bowyer 54 5 Jeff Gordon 53.5 6 Matt Kenseth 53 7 Kyle Busch 43 8 Tony Stewart 31.5 9 Greg Biffle 28 10 Kasey Kahne 22 11 Dale Earnhardt Jr. 7 12 Ryan Newman 3 401. 10andJoe posted: 10.21.2012 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #34 sponsor: Client One Securities/Glory Foods #36 sponsor: Tommy Baldwin Racing 402. Bronco posted: 10.21.2012 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well it's a good thing that Dale Jr stayed away from this race, as he likely would have been taken down in one of the needless wrecks in this race, or worse had another vicious crash due to a blown tire like Allmendinger and Almirola did. On the last green flag run I was praying for a caution so that Truex would have a chance to win the April Kansas race that got away from him, or make up for the Atlanta race last month that should have been his. But of course none of that happened and Menard and Truex didn't have a chance to win. Watching Aric Almirola dominate the race was like watching Allmendinger dominate the fall race at Dover two years ago - fun to watch while it lasted, but you knew it something wrong was going to happen. Danica Patrick tried wrecking Cassill over nothing, spun her car around, and rather than keeping it spun into the grass she overcorrected and clobbered the wall. Sad that she thinks she's ready for Cup racing. The last six winners of this race (Stewart, Johnson and Biffle) all lost it on their own and brought out cautions. And finally, please put Regan Smith in the 10, 22 or 31 next year, but he deserves a good quality Cup ride, even though he's likely going to join Sadler and Vickers in the minor leagues. 403. Bronco posted: 10.21.2012 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Should also add, even though he's missed the past two races, Dale Jr still ranks 9th in overall points scored, and has the best average finish this season. Given how well Regan has performed in the #88, I think Jr would have been a real championship contender were it not for the first concussion he suffered. 404. 10andJoe posted: 10.21.2012 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #10 sponsor: GoDaddy.com 405. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Reads posts #376 and #377* Maybe we are psychic, murb. 406. Schroeder51 posted: 10.21.2012 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, murb, can you tell me what this week's winning lottery numbers are? 407. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Maybe we are psychic, murb." lol, We must have similar thought processes or something. Sorry Schroeder, I don't think I'd be able to tell you that. You'd have to ask David, lol. I'm just now noticing how many guys came back from difficulties in this race. Obviously, Jimmie Johnson's situation was well documented. But Kenseth got up in the wall as well when Aric Almirola had his second incident as they came off turn two. Also, Marcos Ambrose crashed but still came back to finish 12th. And Landon came back for a top 20 after the dustup with Danica. Lots of great comebacks in the race today. 408. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well cjs, I made sure to note during various parts of the race that Jimmie, Kyle, and Marcos were driving in over their heads during the race. Kyle spun himself out early because after restarting alongside Aric Almirola, Ryan Newman got to his inside and took the air off his spoiler and slowed him down. Then after Kyle finally cleared Newman, he was driving too hard trying to catch Almirola, which was pretty obvious as his car slid up the track because he accelerated too early, and wound up losing it coming off turn 4. I didn't mention it at the time, but Dave Rogers came over the radio and told Kyle, because he spun in the infield, to come down pit road right then, which Kyle didn't do and instead drove back around and risked driving around on flat-spotted tires and making the situation even worse. Then Jimmie Johnson got stuck back in traffic after Almirola's first collision with the wall as he had lost a lap after pitting and had to take the wave around to get back on the lead lap (by the way, does it bother anyone else that it takes no skill to get back on the lead lap anymore? We saw it yesterday with Stenhouse, and we saw it today with a number of cars including Johnson, Hamlin, and Mark). As per the restart rules (which aren't very consistent), Johnson had to restart at the back of the field because he took the wave around, and drove the car too hard, spun himself out and backed it into the wall. As for Ambrose, there's no excuse for that. He simply drove the car way too far into the corner and got into the back of Logano, which caused Ambrose's car to go around because the back tires were suddenly going faster than the front tires, and unfortunately for Trevor, he was in the wrong place at the right time and got involved as well. Then Ambrose, who had rear end damage that was very similar to Jimmie's, wound up finishing 12th, higher than both Logano and Trevor, so either his damage wasn't as bad as theirs was, or he just had a superior car. And Gordon was running very well at one point, running as high as 3rd (not including the two laps he led during green flag pit stops) at one point. I think his car just went away by the end of the race, while the #5 and #48 cars both get better. He was also behind Regan Smith on the final restart. Regan was terrible on restarts all day, which is why he finished 7th instead of 3rd, and I think that losing that ground on the restart due to being behind Regan (not directly behind, but he did get backed up because Regan had trouble getting up to speed) and that I think, along with the fact that his car wasn't very fast in the final green flag run, is why he finished 10th instead of about 6th or 7th. 409. cjs3872 posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Jimmie had the second-best car, not the best car. Aric Almirola had the best car, hands down, but was the victim of tire failure just after Jimmie and Denny Hamlin stopped. Actually, of the championship contenders, Hamlin had, by far, the worst luck today, because he got trapped after making green flag pit stops twice today. Only the unusually high attrition and the wave-around, which I don't totally mind under these circumstances, let him get back up to 13th place. Meanwhile, Brad Keselowski keeps living a charmed life. Geting the best of it in the huge crash at Talladega, and now salvaging a push with Johnson with a clearly inferior car. It seemed obvious to me that the #2 team knew that there would be chaos today, because they ran a far more conservative race than they usually run, and it paid off for them. I also think, if it hasn't already happened, that Trevor Bayne may want a talk with Mr. Ambrose for causing that mayhem when Ambrose ran over Logano, knocking either his car or Logano's into Bayne's, effective ruining his day. And Paul, I don't think Regan Smith was as bad on restarts as it was him being overly conservative. Remember that he's always been one of the most conservative drivers on the circuit, which overall, worked out to his benefit. And I think Rick Hendrick and Alan Gustafson may want to find out why Jeff Gordon just won't press the gas on these high-speed tracks. I now think that, rather than the speed of his car is why he's so far of the pace of his teammates. Certainly a recent crash at Chicago when the throttle hung didn't help, but he's been too cautious on these kinds of tracks all year, and I think he may be afraid to stand on it, and I never thought that until this weekend, but Regan Smith's performance this weekend confirmed that for me. And DSFF, there's no way Brad's gaining points on Jimmie next weekend at Martinsville, unless there's a replay of the finish with Jimmie getting taken out. In fact, I'm predicting that Jimmie will take back the point lead, and possibly lead by as many points as he trails by now. There are only two drivers curently running that are in the same category at Martinsville as Jimmie. One in Jeff Gordon and the other is Denny Hamlin, which was why Hamlin's losing a handful of points today is such a crushing blow to his title hopes. The only other one even close is Tony Stewart, and he's out of contention, with only 40 points that can be gained in a race, once the S&Ps park for the day. That's why, even if Kasey Kahne had closed more ground today, he would have had no shot, because whatever ground he would gain today (and he did gain five points), he would probably lose, and possibly more at Martinsville, where he's usually terrible. Even Clint Bowyer, at 25 points back, needs a minor miracle at Martinsville to stay on contention himself. And Bronco, don't you think that with Dale, Jr. out for two races, Chad Knaus was once again willing to share information with the #88 team, because we all know he wasn't sharing info at the time Dale, Jr. announced he would sit out the races at Charlotte and Kansas. But now that the #88 is no threat to the #48 for the title, Knaus is willing to share some information again. 410. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is some advice for Jeff Gordon stop driving like a freaking pansy and you'll have a much better chance at winning races. 411. 18fan posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, the way I interpreted the radio message to Kyle was for him to pit if he felt that he needed to right away. 412. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry, Schroeder. You see, lottery numbers are chosen by pseudo-random techniques and therefore do not fall into the psychic realm of knowledge. 413. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "by the way, does it bother anyone else that it takes no skill to get back on the lead lap anymore?" YES!!!! The wave around rule has never made sense to me. But I've heard from some people that it would be impossible to do the double file restarts without it, so I don't know. I don't really mind the lucky dog, because it actually creates some stiff competition between guys who are fighting to get back on the lead lap. Personally, I would love to go back to the old "race back to the yellow" days, but obviously the chance of that happening is equal to a snowball's chance in hell. 414. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Gordon stop driving like a freaking pansy" lol, Ben Lowe, you always have the funniest comments on here, by far. CJS, you do have a point about Gordon "not pressing the gas" on the intermediates. I think the reasoning behind it is that he's just being conservative because of all the bad luck he has been having this year. Now that he is all but mathematically eliminated from the championship, I'd love to see him and his team taking less care and just going for wins. Same goes for Stewart, Harvick, Biffle, and Kenseth. 415. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with you on the lucky dog, murb. That does create competition between lapped cars. However, I think that racing back to the yellow was dangerous. Just ask Dale Jarrett. I could go either way on the wave around. If I am not incorrect, it was created so that lapped cars would not restart in front of the leaders. This may be just me, but it seems like lapped cars no longer have the muscle to pass the leader anymore. By the way, what is a "murb"? 416. Paul posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, Regan came over the radio and told Steve Letarte that he couldn't get a good restart because of the way the car was set up. There was at least one restart, maybe two, where he spun the tires while running in the top six. One restart that has stuck in my mind came on lap 128 when he restarted in 6th, directly behind teammate Jeff Gordon and Matt Kenseth. As they got to the start/finish line, Jeff, who has been conservative on restarts for the better part of his career, was right on Kenseth's back bumper and pushed him past Clint Bowyer before turn 1, with Jeff eventually clearing Clint either in the same turn or in turn 3. Meanwhile, Regan was about 1-2 car lengths behind Jeff as the took the green flag. It's hard to tell whether that was just Jeff having a great restart or if Regan couldn't get up to speed on that particular restart, but I think if Regan's car was better on restarts that that gap wouldn't have been so big. And as far as Jeff not pushing down enough on the gas pedal, from what I saw he may have been the best from the center of the corner to the exit when his car was handling right. In fact, he even passed Regan Smith in the middle part of the race. I think it was more his car being set up for the long run, but not handling well that cost him during the final green flag run, and not his reluctance of stepping on the gas pedal. During the middle part of the race he was passing cars very easily, especially on the exit of the corners, such as when he cleared Clint Bowyer in the middle of the corner when the entered side-by-side on that lap 128 restart. 417. murb posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, my last name is Murbarger, so it's just kind of an old family nickname type of thing. The funny thing is that people always misspell my last name. Like, one time I had someone ask me if I was related to the sportscaster Brent Musburger. That was pretty hilarious. You have a point, the racing back to the yellow thing was dangerous. But now, with all of these new safety innovations, I think it could definitely take some of the danger out. Plus, I'm sure that they could make some sort of exception to the rule where if there was a car right in the middle of the frontstretch they could abort it or something. I don't know. I seriously doubt it ever coming back. To me, it just made the guys have to earn it a lot more and it showed the skill that it took to get back on the lead lap, as opposed to the current system as Paul was saying. 418. JG24FanForever posted: 10.21.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hendrick fails to have a car in the Top 3 for the first time in 14 races. Jimmie Johnson makes his 197th career comeback in a race and with a huge exclamation point! by beating Gordon in the closing laps. Matt Kenseth continues to prove what Legends are made of despite being a total lame-duck in the process. 419. Jim Davis posted: 10.21.2012 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To me, it just made the guys have to earn it a lot more and it showed the skill that it took to get back on the lead lap, as opposed to the current system as Paul was saying." Originally, it did. But toward the end there it seems like the leader was virtually obligated to slow down and let everyone get a lap back else he would be abused in post race interviews. 420. BON GORDON posted: 10.21.2012 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not buying that Gordon is conservative during a run crap. I do think he's more conservative on reatarts but he lost spots during the end of the race on a 30 lap run. That's just slower equipment and a car that went away when it mattered most. He ran much better than I thought he would and shouldve finished between 4th-7th. If Jeff Gordon has the car he will be much much higher than 10th. He's not good on restarts and that wont change. Not winning as much wont change either. He will better next year. 421. 10andJoe posted: 10.21.2012 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've suggested before that the Lucky Dog be replaced with a "everyone between the leader and 2nd place car gets one lap back" thing. 422. David posted: 10.21.2012 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a different topic, I read over the new batch of Cup seasons with the Formula One points system, and it got me thinking. Since all of them have a standardized points system, why not find out the weakest and strongest championship seasons from that era? To evaluate this, we will use a simple, but reliable and effective stat, good old APPR (Average Points Per Race). 1949: Red Byron, 13.33 APPR 1950: Curtis Turner, 9.06 (More on this later) 1951: Tim Flock, 12.07 1952: Tim Flock, 12.70 1953: Herb Thomas, 14.64 1954: Lee Petty, 13.56 1955: Tim Flock, 17.00 1956: Buck Baker, 13.04 1957: Buck Baker, 14.35 1958: Lee Petty, 10.82 1959: Lee Petty, 13.12 1960: Rex White, 12.08 1961: Rex White, 10.88 1962: Joe Weatherly, 13.23 1963: Richard Petty, 11.69 1964: Ned Jarrett, 12.71 1965: Ned Jarrett, 14.18 1966: David Pearson, 13.98 1967: Richard Petty, 17.98 (Ka-POW!) 1968: David Pearson, 15.17 1969: David Pearson, 15.15 About 1950, since the rule about not competing in restricted events was a NASCAR rule and not a caveat of the points system, I can not see fit to give Lee Petty the title, who would have won without his penalty (with an APPR of exactly 9.00). 423. ch posted: 10.21.2012 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Corrections: 10 - GoDaddy.com 15 - Pink Lemonade 5-hour Energy / Avon Fndtn. 16 - Sherwin-Williams 19 - Plinker Tactical 32 - US Chrome 34 - Client One Securities LLC (No Glory Foods Logos at all) 36 - Tommy Baldwin Racing 79 - Re-Load.biz / Bestway Disposal 83 - Burger King / Dr. Pepper 91 - Humphrey Smith Racing 424. joey2448 posted: 10.21.2012 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever... "Jimmie Johnson makes his 197th career comeback in a race and with a huge exclamation point! by beating Gordon in the closing laps." What does this mean??? What's the criteria for a comeback? 425. 10andJoe posted: 10.21.2012 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >34 - Client One Securities LLC (No Glory Foods Logos at all) Pretty sure there were on the quarter panels; only really got to see it in one in-car shot from another car as it went past though. (Also, is it just me or was the 34 painted such that at a distance it looked /un/sponsored? Talk about invisible logos...) 426. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 10.22.2012 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Over the two events she competed in this weekend, Danica showed why she absolutely does not belong in NASCAR's top Series. It's one thing to just make a mistake, but to have an entitled attitude about it instead of realizing what she did wrong only ensures a rough future ahead for all involved with her NASCAR tenure. She just needs to count her lucky stars that money is everything nowadays, otherwise Regan Smith would be driving her car next year (he should get a shot in a good ride after how well he has done in the 88 these past two weeks; remember his actual finish at Charlotte shouldn't count against him because he was in the top 10 until he blew an engine). I cannot believe Jimmie made it back into the top 10 with that beat up car!! Brad finishes a spot ahead of him but didn't gain anything. I am pulling hard for Brad, and am more confident about his chances for a great finish at Martinsville than a few others, but if Jimmie does win the championship, every other team in the garage should be taking notes on how the 48 team did not give up today. 427. SoxFan24 posted: 10.22.2012 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin Truex Jr finishes 2nd in both races at Kansas in 2012. One has to think that Truex will get a victory sooner or later. 428. Thomas posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In his 4th career start, Timmy Hill records his first top-35 finish. And in the progress, he records a better finish than the much over-hyped Danica Patrick has in 8 career starts (25th at Chicago). 429. Scott B posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Things I liked about the race: Regan Smith gets his top-10 in the #88 after starting deep in the field. Landon Cassill ties his best finish of the season (18th for the 3rd time) after Danica's epic fail in trying to wreck him. Litening to the TV announcers doing a tap dance for hours about how the tires were causing wrecks, but trying not to throw Goodyear under the bus. The #43 leads a bunch of laps. Things I didn't like about the race: Danica makes me feel sorry for every joke I've ever made about Buckshot Jones. 430. Tyler (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) By watching this race, Hamlin doesn't deserve to win the title. If you can't beat a beat-up racecar, such as Johnson's AND Ambrose's, you just don't deserve it. I realize that his car may have been subpar but come on. You're a damn title contender, dude and have the 2011 title-winning crew chief with you. Come on, son. Anyway, congrats to Kenseth. I could have almost guaranteed that the 'Dega win would be his last with Roush but alas, I was wrong. It was nice to see him visit victory lane for *maybe* the final time in the No. 17. It makes you wonder what could have been if he didnt have all those unlucky breaks and mishaps in the first few races of the Chase. And finally, did anyone watch the pre-race show with Daugherty, Rusty and Evernham, namely with the "Stick a fork in them" segment? I just thought it was amazingly stupid that Evernham stuck a fork in Bowyer (if I remember correctly), Kahne and Stewart (can't remember if they went over Truex and Biffle), but he didn't stick one in Gordon an he won't until "he is mathematically eliminated". I understand that you used to be Gordon, crew chief, Ray, but come on dude. He did not perform great last weekend by any means and 50 points out with 5 races to go AND ninth in the standings, yeah he doesn't have a great chance. Now he's 52 back with four races to go but I guess he isn't gonna stick a fork in him next weekend at Martinsville, either. I just thought it was completely stupid but that's just me.... 431. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 2:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ty, I don't think Ray "stuck a fork" in Jeff because he knows what Jeff is capable of doing when the pressure is on, plus Jeff entered the Chase with arguably the most momentum for the second year in a row (only to lose it at Chicago for the second year in a row) and was a consistent top five contender up until Charlotte in the Chase. I've pretty much come to the conclusion that he won't win his 5th title this year, but I'd wait until after Martinsville before I "stuck a fork" in him too just because of the "unknown". With Brad having past bad luck there and Jeff being a Clint Bowyer dive-bomb away from winning in the spring, he has a chance to at least decrease the deficit he has in the points. That said, he's 51 points back and would probably have to win and gain at least 20 points to have any chance going into the final three races. There's a good chance that he will win at Martinsville, but it's probably "too little too late" at this point. Also, don't pay much attention to the NASCAR pre-race shows, especially the one on BSPN. Everything they talk about in the pre-race show is used as the main script during the race; things like "can Brad hold off 5-time?", "when will Denny make his move in the championship?", "will Tony Stewart be able to win 5 races like he did last year?", and "how much will running in the Cup race help Danica today?", among several other things that get talked about every freakin' week. So basically, I don't waste my time with the pre-race show because every topic on the agenda gets addressed during the course of the race anyways, sometimes several times, so I don't miss anything even if I want to. 432. 18fan posted: 10.22.2012 - 2:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I might have missed it, but what does the B stand for in BSPN? And I agree with you Paul about pre-race shows, which is why I don't tune into the races until the national anthem or the command. 433. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 2:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, the "B" goes together with the corresponding "S", and together they make "BS". I first used that term on the Charlotte page and it's somewhat caught on on this site. I think it's the perfect description for "the worldwide leader in sports". 434. cjs3872 posted: 10.22.2012 - 6:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, the point about Gordon not wanting to just out his foot in it on the mid-sized tracks is more a general comment for the season more than a specific one for this race. For instance, the only time we see Gordon show any assertiveness on restarts is when he has a chance to get away from the field, but when he's even in fifth, sixth, seventh place, he'll just back out of it and drop to about tenth before picking his way through traffic. And his car may have been ill-handling at the end of the race, but I also think Gordon may have been backing off, trying to reach the finish in a race marred by carnage. And as for the thing in ESPN's pre-race about ciding who's a championship contender and who isn't, there are only four drivers who I consider in true contention, and the even drivers in third (Denny Hamlin) and fourth (Clint Bowyer) are getting close to dropping out. Remember that 20 points (Hamlin's deficit) is half a race and 25 points (Bowyer's deficit) is more than half of what a driver can gain in a race. Remember that the most points a driver can gain in a race is 40, and there may be races where the maximum point gain is even less than that. Take this coming race at Martinsville for example. If as many teams do S&Ps as I think there are going to be, the maximum point gain would be 37 or 38, not 47 as the system would accmodate if everyone tried to go the distance. And the most a driver could gain this weekend was 39, and that was a speedway race with the #21 car in the field. That's a big reason I say the S&Ps change the math from what you hear everybody say. Because the S&Ps take up the last 7-9 spots ina race, this dramatically changes the math in terms of how many points a driver can gain or lose in a single race. And there is a chance that it could be a two-driver battle after this weekend's race at Martinsville. If Denny Hamlin and/or Clint Bowyer don't beat Jimmie Johnson, I think they're out of it for this year, and it becomes a two-driver battle for the championship betwen Keselowski and Johnson, because I don't think a driver can gain 20 points on two drivers with today's point system in three races. The one caviat to this is the following race at Texas, which is a 500-mile race on a high-speed track, and as we know, anything can happen in a 500-mile race. I think that after Texas, the championship race will be crystal clear, because the last major obstacle will have been cleared, and I think there will be no more than two drivers in serious contention after Texas, possibly three at the most, with Keselowski being one of them. 435. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.22.2012 - 6:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "when will Denny make his move in the championship?" If he doesn't win Martinsville and Phoenix, he has no chance if the 2 and 48 don't slip up. 436. Anonymous posted: 10.22.2012 - 7:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's not forget that although Cassill had a great run,once again his teammate Kvapil beats him. 437. Peter posted: 10.22.2012 - 8:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I gained so much respct for Landon Cassill - not just for having a fantastic run in cash straped equpiment, but for basically laughing off the whole incident with the princess. I think he actually felt sorry for her over how lame it was 438. David posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Perhaps I posted #422 too early. 439. I love Japan posted: 10.22.2012 - 11:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) More and more, Bowyer is becoming my favorite driver. If enough happens, he can win it this year. I was hoping he would win yesterday, but he got a Top 10 out of it. I don't like Michael Waltrip the driver or person, but MWR is a very good team. 440. Tyler (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 10.22.2012 - 11:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul - Oh trust me, I realize Gordon is a very good driver and is great when the pressure is on. But regardless, I don't think he can do it. There are just too many obstacles and it's going to be tough to best Keselowski, Johnson, Bowyer, Hamlin, Kahne and others, especially with just four races to go. And also, I usually hate the pre-race show, I just watch it for that segment alone. Rusty is a complete idiot, which makes the show practically unbearable. And I swear, while watching the pre-race show, the majority of the time spent is talking about Johnson! It's so annoying because its like they don't realize that there are 42 other guys in the field. Their main and sole focus is on Johnson, that's it. And I honestly can't stand that. He's their golden boy, so I guess that's why they talk about him so much. cjs - I completely agree with you. In my eyes, there are just four guys in the Chase right now and that's the top four in the standings. It's gonna eventually come down to Keselowski and Johnson. Bowyer is charging way too late, while Hamlin just doesn't deserve to win the title this year. I like Hamlin and Bowyer, but it's just not in the cards, although they still got a 15-20% chance. However, I do think Bowyer will have a top-five next weekend but unfortunately for him, Johnson and Keselowski will be in the top-ten too. We'll see what happens, I suppose... 441. Tyler (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 10.22.2012 - 12:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Peter said: "I gained so much respct for Landon Cassill - not just for having a fantastic run in cash straped equpiment, but for basically laughing off the whole incident with the princess. I think he actually felt sorry for her over how lame it was" I felt the same way, mainly about the Danica aspect. She is an absolute horrible driver and simply doesn't deserve to be in the Sprint Cup Series, maybe not even the Nationwide Series. She just doesn't have what it takes an let's her anger and frustration get the best of her. With that being said, does anyone else believe that Johanna Long deserves a shot more than Danica? Long has performed great in lackluster equipment -- and appeared headed towards a top-15 finish on Saturday -- while Danica gets to wreck an endless amount of cars in the JR Motorsports stable. I can almost guarantee that, if Danica and Johanna switched rides, the latter would have multiple top-fives, more top-tens than Danica, higher up in the standings than Danica and she may even have a win at this point. She is an amazingly talented driver and I hope someone like Turner, Gibbs, Roush, Childress or someone takes a shot on her next year. 442. Tyler (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 10.22.2012 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Additionally, has anyone else noticed the last nine races? All nine have been won by four different drivers.. Hamlin won at Atlanta, Bristol and Loudon, while Clint Bowyer visited victory lane at Richmond and Charlotte. Matt Kenseth captured checkered flags at Talladega and of course, Kansas as Brad Keselowski won at Chicagoland and Dover. Biffle is the last driver, not named Keselowski, Hamlin, Kenseth and Bowyer, to win a race by visiting victory lane at Michigan on Aug. 19. Wonder if the streak will continue next weekend at Martinsville.... 443. David posted: 10.22.2012 - 12:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is interesting, Tyler. The best chance to continue that streak obviously lies with Hamlin. 444. biffle16 posted: 10.22.2012 - 12:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle will break that streak for the last 5 races and win the cup 445. cjs3872 posted: 10.22.2012 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Anonymous (#436), let's also remember that Travis Kvapil has a decade more experience than Landon Cassill, so he has a decided advantage there. Actually, we saw last year what Cassill could do in the right situation when he drove the Phoenix Racing car, as he actually contended for a top ten position at Michigan. And he was not happy with Danica after the race, either. Citing the problems some of the front runners were having, Cassill admited he and those he was running with at the back of the field were just trying to get to the finish. But Danica was taking unnecessary risks, even going three wide and NOT completing passes, and Cassill was trying to tell Danica to race intelligently, and Danica charged at him like a bull in a china shop. Basically, Cassill chastised Danica for the same reason that I and numerous others have gotten on Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., and that is not racing intelligently, which actually is not like Danica. Danica might be slow on the track and easy to unnerve, but she's always had a reputation of racing smart when she was in IndyCar racing, always managing to finish races, even though she may not have done as well as she should have, so these mistakes she's making is not like her at all. And now she's even got one of Tony Stewart top confidants (Greg Zipadelli) mad at her, which is not good news for her future at Stewart-Haas Racing. Add that to the fact that her sponsor wants to have more racing-oriented stuff in terms of sponsorship, and Danica may not have much of a future, which means that Stewart-Haas Racing may actually have a future, because she's been a cancer to every team she's been with. 446. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I agree that this is a 4-car race for the championship. The reason I'm not officially crossing of Gordon's name is because he has a great chance to win Martinsville. Of course, he would also have to have Brad, Jimmie, and Denny finish down the running order, which is far more likely to happen to Brad than the other two. If he doesn't gain 20 points this weekend, I'll cross him off. Basically, he's like a playoff contending team who needs to win and for 3-5 other teams to lose. It's not likely, but it's at least possible. Although I agree that Kasey is done this weekend because he is terrible at Martinsville, where he hasn't had a top 10 finish since '06. Ty, I agree that they talk about "Five-Time" (more on that later) too much, but the reason for it is to tell the casual fans (because that's their target audience) that Brad is trying to win his first Sprint Cup championship by holding off a 5-time champion. It adds more drama to the mix that, quite frankly, has been overstated to the point where it's become annoying and repetitive. As for his nickname/title, is it just me or does having that nickname lessen Jimmie's legacy to the point where it looks amateurish? You don't hear people refer to Jeff Gordon as "Four-Time", or Tony Stewart as "Three-Time", or Dale Earnhardt as "Seven-Time". In other sports you don't hear people refer to Joe Montana as "Four-Time", or Bart Starr as "Five-Time", or Michael Jordan as "Six-Time", or Bill Russell as "Eleven-Time". Yet, Jimmie Johnson is referred to as "Five-Time". If we have to be reminded of someone's legacy or greatness every time the analysts talk about him, it just makes Jimmie come off as second-rate. We shouldn't have to look at someone's numbers to determine if they're great. If they're great, they're great, and there's no denying it. Through no fault of his own, I think having the media push Jimmie the way they have has played a negative part in how a lot of fans see him. Maybe it's just me, but that's my take on it. 447. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^hey biffle16 didn't you get banned a long time ago? 448. Scott B posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Odd stat of the week: Timmy Hill would have been the top finishing rookie, but he dropped out of the ROTY competition in Cup to collect NNW points. Wise & Leicht both DNQ'ed. 449. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But cjs, while I agree that she isn't one to take risks (which somewhat explains why she's on the edge of top 10 in Nationwide points), she has had incidents with people throughout her racing career that no one else has. She had one with Dan Wheldon during her IndyCar days a few years ago; in 2010 she had incidents with Michael McDowell at Las Vegas, Morgan Shepherd at Loudon, and James Buescher at Fontana; in 2011 it was with Ryan Truex at Bristol; and this year it's been with Cole Whitt at Daytona, Sam Hornish, Jr. at Talladega, Regan Smith at Bristol, and now Landon Cassill yesterday at Kansas. I don't know whether there's a correlation here or if it's just a coincidence, but she has a history of either racing too hard around these drivers (McDowell), being in the way (Shepherd, Buescher, Truex, Smith) or losing her cool (Whitt, Hornish, Cassill). One thing I've seen that I don't like is that she doesn't know how to deal with adversity. She threw a fit after Daytona and Road America when she had a winning car, but got taken out after a mistake from another driver. She lost her cool and ran into Shepherd on pit road at Loudon and deliberately sent Hornish into the wall at Talladega after the race because they made a mistake (plus Hornish had a cut tire and couldn't avoid her coming through the tri-oval). And yesterday, she loses her cool because Cassill won't roll over for her on this fast one-groove track, and tries to wreck him, wrecks herself in the process, and then complains after the race that her car's wrecked and his isn't. Yet, she's going to Cup next year after failing to overcome adversity thus far in her NASCAR career, and will only continue to do so next year since the competition is much greater in Cup than in Nationwide. It didn't help her that Tony Eury, Jr. told her everything she wanted to hear, and when he finally spoke up he was fired. I'm glad that Zippy spoke up yesterday and called her out (which he did to Stewart and Logano when he crew chiefed them), and I bet Tony Gibson will do the same thing since he was very good at keeping Ryan Newman cool in tough situations. If she has people in her ear telling her what she's doing wrong and she learns how to fix her mistakes, she might have a future in this sport. Until then, I think she's just occupying space that a more level-headed driver could be using. 450. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott, Leicht didn't technically DNQ because he wasn't on the entry list. Cole Whitt has been driving the #33 recently. 451. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I agree with you on the lucky dog, murb. That does create competition between lapped cars. However, I think that racing back to the yellow was dangerous. Just ask Dale Jarrett." The Dale Jarrett thing is an "excuse for another gimmick" according to some. Freezing the field is a great idea. The lucky dog is just to keep big name drivers (and to keep fans of those drivers attention) for a lap back. Racing back to the line was far more dangerous then people ever realized. I like the wave around, it makes people take risks. Also worthy of mention from WindTunnel last night, Kyle Petty basically demolished a fan (deserved it) for calling fuel mileage races "not racing." He basically called it "a BS idiotic statement. Fuel mileage races have been around for years." Ask Ned Jarrett if he could won the 500 if he had a gallon of gas that one year. 452. BON GORDON posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha come on CJS. Gordon wasnt being ultra conservative at the end. If had a good enough car he wouldve been able to hold on to 8th spot. His car was simply not driving right that last little run. He wasnt thinking, "well hey there's been a lot of wrecks today, here you go Brad, here you go Jimmie take some points from me. Ill just drop to tenth cause I don't wanna chance wrecking." I know Gordon is very conservative on restarts, always has been, but with less than 15 laps to go he's not just gonna roll over and give spots away. His car was junk and couldn't hold Johnson and Keselowski off. He's lucky to pull off a Top Ten. The last run of the race is were Gordon usually can gain a couple positions. 453. David posted: 10.22.2012 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uhh, BON GORDON, as much as I would like to agree with you, did you notice that Gordon was in the top five most of the race? Or did I misunderstand your post? 454. Jim Davis posted: 10.22.2012 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I can almost guarantee that, if Danica and Johanna switched rides, the latter would have multiple top-fives, more top-tens than Danica, higher up in the standings than Danica and she may even have a win at this point. She is an amazingly talented driver and I hope someone like Turner, Gibbs, Roush, Childress or someone takes a shot on her next year." The above may be true but it also irrelevant. In these tough times the ability to bring money into the sport is just as important if not more so than driving ability. Patrick and her team(s) understands that. I'm not convinced that Long does. She has only run about 2/3rds of the races this year. I have seen little to indicate that she has been on the phone or pounding the pavement trying to get more sponsorship for her current team or sponsorship for a single race with another team when her team is idle. If the Cope sisters can pick up these single race sponsorships then why not Long? If she doesn't know how to do this then she should see about hiring a real agent or publicist than having family members try to do this. At the very least she needs to network with drivers like Eric McClure or Ken Schrader or even the Cope sisters who have extended their careers many years beyond what their talents alone could have. Long has to stop sitting by the phone waiting for it to ring and try to take control of her own destiny. She needs to start down the path to racing professional instead of just race car driver. 455. Anonymous posted: 10.22.2012 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin Truex Jr misses another one...He's had a great year. I really hope he gets a win before the year is out. He moved up to 6th in points as well. 456. cjs3872 posted: 10.22.2012 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, I don't think Jeff Gordon was the only driver that was conservative in the final laps at Kansas. Remember that with so many cars already involved in crashes (and some of them were in more than one), and with a tire problem, the last thing anyone wanted to do was to push hard. That last run of green flag racing was right at the edge of what they could run on tires, so a number of guys played in conservatively just to get to the finish. And with the problems they were having on restarts, the last thing anyone needed was a GWC finish, so in the midst of all the chaos, a number of drivers were just wanting to get to the finish, and position was secondary. Gordon's always been one of those drivers that would rather give up a position or two rather than run the car too hard and wreck it for no reason. He hasn't won four championships and 86 races for nothing. 1995 Subaru WRX STi, that race you were referring to was the 1963 Daytona 500, thevery race that put the Wood Brothers on the map, when they stretched their mileage, with a little help from the weather, and made the 500 miles on four pit stops, instead of five. And I disagree with you on the wave around. I think it's a bad rule that had to be put in when the rule regarding having the leaders start up front was made, along with the double-file restarts, which I also think was a bad idea. The wave around lets too many cars get free laps back. Did you not see the Nationwide race this past Saturday? That allowed a driver who had no business contending, and not only put him back in contention, but actually helped him win the race. The free pass is a good idea, but not the wave around. That's a necessary evil of double-file restarts and making sure the leader always leads the field. If I were in charge, I would go back to the old-style restarts and tweak the rule requiring the leader to always lead the field on every restart and put all the cars that would get the wave-around as the first cars to the leader's inside. That would also give those who are able to stay out longer on a green and get bet better fuel mileage and catch a caution the advantage they deserve, while making it a real penalty to make an early pit stop and be caught out by the caution. Right now, that's a virtually risk-free strategy as long as you don't fall more than one lap behind, because you'll get waved around to rejoin the lead lap anyway. That's the one thing about these races with few cautions. The wave-around doesn't really come into play that often, because for that to have an effect, you have to have cautions. I again go back to that 24-Hour race at Daytona a few years ago where a car once made up about 10-12 laps just on wave-arounds. For instance, you could have a problem an get about five laps down this weekend at Martinsville, but if you play your cards right, you could still wind up being a contender just by taking wave-arounds. 457. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, that is a great point about drivers conserving their equipment at the very end. That final green flag run was 28 laps, which is about how long it took for some drivers to blow their tires. I know that both Mears and Allmendinger blew right front tires after 31 laps of green flag racing, just 3 laps more than that last run. Gordon's style of driving likely wasn't going to blow a right front anyways, but it is style to prefer giving up a couple positions rather than risk having a problem and losing 10-20 positions. And I agree that the wave-arounds are bad, mostly because they make it too easy to get back into contention. We saw it the other day in the Nationwide race when Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. was caught two laps down out of his own doing, and managed to make them both up, one for the wave-around, and the other for the "lucky dog" (which I do like because it encourages lapped cars to race each other, while not racing the leader too hard trying to stay on the lead lap). Instead of having a mediocre day that results in him losing a lot of points to Sadler, who ran a very good race all day, but he actually gains points and gets the victory. Drivers who make stupid mistakes shouldn't be given the chance to make up for them with wave-arounds, and that Nationwide race proves how easy it is to make up for your mistake without any skill. 458. Daniel posted: 10.22.2012 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martinsville entry list: -David Reutimann in the #10 -Scott Riggs returns in the #23 -Ken Schrader in the #32 -#33 TBA -#51 TBA -Brian Vickers in the #55 -Dale Earnhardt Jr. back in the #88 459. Spen posted: 10.22.2012 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) David: 1970-79 are now up. And nice work on the APPR. 460. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.22.2012 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing about Gordon at the end, I honestly think he fell back on purpose to help JJ with points. I was watching Brad on Race Buddy along with the telecast, and all at once 3 cars passed him and Brad caught him in no time. Suddenly he picked up all sorts of time racing Brad, pinching him off with aero in the corners while JJ was pressing the "Go" button and slicing through the 11th thru 20th place guys. But he finally slipped which allowed Brad to go by with the 48 basically on his tail. Two laps later I look up on the telecast and Jeff is just pulling oover for JJ. And Brad was pretty much saved by the bell at the end, two more laps and JJ passes him. Plus he gained points on Denny. So, in my opinion, he was just channeling his inner Rubens Barichello (I probably misspelled that). We can talk about Chad holding Gordon back, but we can't overlook Jeff's willingness to by JJ's lackey. At least it took Earnhardt until he was almost 50 years old and in the first race of what would have been his 23rd full season to become Dale Jr and Mikey's lackeys. Jeff has been doing this for a while. 461. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.22.2012 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johanna is doing things right. Let's not forget she is just 20 years old. She will race next year, hopefully the full schedule, for MLM. She has really blossomed this year posting some very respectible runs in underfunded equipment. Another year with MLM will really help her learning curve. Then, after hopefully a very respectable year next year, a big name team will let her run their NWide stuff for another year or two. That would be ideal IMO. She has actual racing ability and her clock isn't ticking like Danica's is (as far as how long people will continue to make excuses for her and her looks, she is 30 which in model years may as well be 90). She has time and she knows it. 462. BON GORDON posted: 10.22.2012 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think you misread my post David. Gordon had a Top five car a good portion of the race. I was just saying his car was at it's worst that last short run. Restarts were hit or miss for him yesterday. I just wish he finished higher than tenth. 463. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Rick Hendrick stated before the season started that he wanted all four cars in the Chase and to win the championship. At this point, Gordon is realistically out of the championship picture, and being that he wants to see HMS succeed in its goals, since he can't win the championship this year, he wants to see Jimmie win it because that only means good things for the team. And he didn't just lose three positions and suddenly race Brad hard, he lost those positions on the restart because Regan Smith was terrible on restarts on race and as a result got in Jeff's way, which caused Jeff to slow down to avoid running into him or going 3-wide entering the turn, and lost three positions as a result. Brad caught him because he was faster than Jeff at the end and Jeff tried holding him off because he didn't want to give up the position. Once Brad got underneath him, Jeff let him go and didn't put up much of a fight against Jimmie because he didn't want to interfere in his championship quest. There's a difference between pulling over and letting your teammate win like Rubens Barrichello did at Austria '02 and not wanting to interfere in a championship battle like Jeff did yesterday. Remember, the opposite happened tha decided the Truck Series championship in '99 when Mike Bliss passed teammate Greg Biffle on the last lap, and Biffle lost the championship as a result to Jack Sprague. Jeff may have let Jimmie go, but he did it because Jimmie's still in contention for the championship and Jeff didn't want to interfere. It's not because he's his lackey. As for Johanna Long, I totally agree. I think this is what every driver should have to go through when they're just starting out. Race a few years in mediocre equipment and show what you got, and earn the right to be in top notch equipment. That's one knock I have against Ryan Blaney. He won a K&N Pro Series West race at Phoenix last year, then finished 7th at Richmond driving for TBR this year, and now he's got a development deal with Penske Racing lined up and might be Brad's heir apparent in the Nationwide Series. It's not because he doesn't deserve it, but because there are other drivers just as talented with more experience that haven't gotten that opportunity yet; Jeremy Clements comes to mind instantly. Supposedly Jeremy was going to join JGR in '09 and split the schedule with Kyle Busch, but that deal went away, Kyle ended up driving the full schedule, and Jeremy's been in junk ever since. Somehow he manages to contend for top 15-20th place finishes every week, and yet he gets passed aside for the son of a Cup driver. 464. cjs3872 posted: 10.22.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know my fellow posters, I've bagged on Jeff Gordon due to his conservativeness late in the race, as well as his seeming unwilingness to put the foot to the floor until it counts. But I will say this much, which was why it was good to see him in fast cars last year. If Gordon was drivng the #5 car in yesterday's race, Matt Kenseth does not go to victory lane, because the #5 car was the fastest by far in the late laps. The reason I say that Kenseth would not have gone to victory lane had Gordon been in the #5 car is that I believe Gordon would not have made the mistake that Kasey Kahne did, and shut off the motor, which resulted in him not being able to fire it again. As a result, Gordon would have been right up there with the fastest car, probably blown by Kenseth, and won the race. And by the way, I don't think he makes the mistake Jimmie Johnson made, either when Johnson crashed. I said earlier this year that, despite winning nearly 60 races and five championships, that Johnson is prone to making silly errors like the one that resulted in his crash. One reason I put Gordon ahead of Johnson, and we had this discussion last week, but one reason I didn't mention is that Gordon does not make the mistakes that Johnson is prone to making, which is one reason why Johnson's style is perfect for the Chase format, but over a long 36-race season, it would usually not hold up over the long haul. There are two things that give Gordon the slight edge over Johnson in my view, especially when they're in equal cars. One is he's better on road courses, but the other was on display yesterday, and that is that Gordon does not make the errors that Jimmie Johnson will make. Johnson may have broken even against Keselowski yesterday, but he threw away a golden opportunity to take charge in the championship. If Martinsville is a repeat and Johnson again doesn't pounce where he's strongest, he probably won't win the title this year, and if he doesn't, he'll only have himself to blame. Now he did recover from his crash to break even with Keselowski, but he shouldn't have put himself in that position to begin with. Darrell Waltrip often talks about his golden rule, which is to not beat yourself. Yesterday, the two key Hendrick drivers, Jimmie Johnson and Kasey Kahne, both beat themselves, allowing Matt Kenseth to speed away to an easy win. 465. David posted: 10.22.2012 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Continuation of post #422: 1970: Bobby Isaac, 13.13 1971: Richard Petty, 17.65 1972: Bobby Allison, 16.84 1973: David Pearson, 18.11 (KILLER) 1974: Richard Petty, 15.40 1975: Richard Petty, 15.93 1976: Cale Yarborough, 13.85 1977: Cale Yarborough, 15.42 1978: Cale Yarborough, 14.90 1979: Richard Petty, 13.06 466. cjs3872 posted: 10.22.2012 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And DSFF, one reason why Gordon wants to do whatever's best for Hendrick Motorsports, is that other than Rick Hendrick, nobody else there remembers when HMS was a struggling organization. Remember that Jeff Gordon's rookie year was the third in four years that Hendrick cars won only one race, and at season's end, they had won just six times in four years. In 1994, they won almost as many races as they did from 1990-'93 combined. Guys like Johnson, Knaus, Kasey Kahne, and even Dale Earnhardt, Jr., as well as most of the garage area don't remember the time when HMS struggled, but Gordon does because he was a part of it for one year, and unlike Johnson and Knaus, who are only for themselves, Gordon wants the whole of Hendrick Motorsports to succeed. If Gordon doesn't win, he wants a teammate to win, and if he can't win the championship, he wants a teammate to. that same attitude does not prevail with the #48 and #5 teams at this moment. 467. Jim Davis posted: 10.22.2012 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "She will race next year, hopefully the full schedule, for MLM. She has really blossomed this year posting some very respectible runs in underfunded equipment. Another year with MLM will really help her learning curve. Then, after hopefully a very respectable year next year, a big name team will let her run their NWide stuff for another year or two. That would be ideal IMO." Way too many "hopefullys" in there. Long needs to be more proactive. She should be asking Childress or Busch or Turner about how much sponsorship money she needs to bring to the table to secure a ride for Phoenix or Road America or whatever race is not on her schedule next year. And then go out and get it. Yes, she's only 20. But there's no shortage of 18 and 19 year olds out there who are going to be doing their best to see that she never sniffs a competitive ride. Chase Elliott, Ryan Blaney, and Dylan Kwasnewski are not going to stand in line behind her. There are way too many talented drivers out there who never get a decent shot at success in competitive equipment. Long needs to be moving heaven and earth to make sure she doesn't follow Malsam to the unemployment office. 468. Talon64 posted: 10.22.2012 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth picks up his 24th career Sprint Cup Series win, tying him with Kurt and Kyle Busch for 26th all time and 6th among active drivers. It's the first time in his career that Kenseth has posted back-to-back seasons with 3+ wins, and is the 4th time in 13 full seasons in Cup that he's had 3+ wins. It'a also Kenseth's 125th career top 5 in 468 series starts. Kenseth has now won 2 of the last 3 races, after having just 1 top 5 in the previous 13 races. It's his 4th career Chase win, 3 of them coming since 2011. With his 78 laps led in this race, Kenseth moves past both Terry Labonte and Dale Earnhardt Jr. into 23rd all time in career laps led (7,139). Kansas is the 14th different track that Matt Kenseth has won at, out of 24 that he's competed on. It's his 5th consecutive top 10 and 3rd consecutive top 5 at Kansas (15.8 avg fin in 14 starts). Martin Truex Jr. finishes 2nd in both races at a track in a season for the 2nd time in his career; he was 2nd in both races at Michigan in 2007 (6th career runner-up finish). His 7th top 5 of the year ties his career high, originally set in '07, and is his first in 7 races and 4th top 10 in 6 Chase races. He's one of 6 Chase drivers to be averaging 10th or better in the Chase (9.5). Martin Truex Jr's two runner-up finishes at Kansas this season are his only top 10's in 9 career starts there (3 top 15 finishes, 20.9 avg fin). Paul Menard picks up his first top 5 of 2012 and his 7th in 215 career Cup starts (3 of them are top 3 finishes). His 8th top 10 of the year matches his career-high from last season, but is his first top 10 in 7 races. It's just the 7th top 5 for Richard Childress Racing this season (19 in 2011, 29 in 2010). It's Menard's 5th straight top 20 finish at Kansas, and his 1st top 5 and 2nd top 10 in 8 career starts there (18.0 avg fin). Kasey Kahne reaches 10 top 5's in a season for the 3rd time in 9 years in Cup and first time since 2006. It's his 6th straight top 15 finish to start the Chase, which includes 3 top 5's. Kahne now leads the series with an 8.5 avg start in 2012 and is trying to become the 2nd first-year driver of the #5 since 2009 (Mark Martin) to lead the series in poles as well (tied with Mark Martin for the most with 4). It's just Kahne's 2nd top 5 in 11 Kansas starts (5 top 10's, 15.0 avg fin), but all coming during his current 3-race top 10 streak there. Tony Stewart picks up his first top 5 in the Chase and just his 2nd one in the last 11 races. He hasn't had a top 3 finish in 14 races, after leading the series with 8 in the first 18 races of the season. Stewart currently ranks 7th in points, which would give him an average points finish of 8.3 in the season following a championship. It's Stewart's 4th top 10 in the last 6 races at Kansas and his 6th top 5 in 14 career starts there (11.7 avg fin). Clint Bowyer and Brad Keselowski become the 2nd and 3rd drivers to reach 20 top 10's this season. It's a first in the careers of both drivers (Bowyer's 7th full season in Cup, Keselowski's 3rd). It's Bowyer's 5th top 10 in 6 Chase races, tied with Keselowski and Jimmie Johnson for the most. It's his 2nd top 10 in the last 3 Kansas races and 4th in 9 career starts there (14.0 avg fin). For Keselowski, it's his 40th career top 10 in 121 series starts. 14 of those have come within the last 16 races. It's his 3rd top 10 in 6 career Kansas starts (9.8 avg fin), but all have come within the last 4 races. Regan Smith gets his 2nd top 10 in the last 3 races, but his first in 2 starts in the #88 HMS car. Regan posted a season-high 92.6 driver rating in the race. It's his first top 10 in 6 career Kansas starts (22.8 avg fin). Jimmie Johnson picks up his 8th consecutive top 10 finish at Kansas (2 wins, 5 top 5's, 4.4 avg fin), and 11th top 10 in 13 career starts there (8.0 avg fin). Jeff Gordon gets his 8th top 10 in the last 10 races, and has led at least one lap in 5 consecutive races (19 laps led). It's his 10th top 10 in 14 career Kansas starts (11.0 avg fin) but his first in 3 races. Jamie McMurray gets his first top 15 finish in 8 races. Travis Kvapil and Landon Cassill get BK Racing their 13th and 14th top 20 finish in 65 starts this season. Timmy Hill, in his 4th career Cup start, finishes a career-best 22nd. It's Fas Lane Racing's 7th lead lap finish in 68 career starts and first at a track other than a plate track or road course. 469. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, another example of Jimmie beating himself happened last year at Charlotte, when he crashed himself into the wall and single-handedly ended his own championship hopes with five races to go. If I remember correctly, he got stuck in traffic after pit stops and was running around 8th place, dove underneath Ryan Newman too hard, lost control of his car and began to spin out. But rather than do the old racer's adage of cranking the wheel all the way to the left and spinning out into the grass, he does what Danica did yesterday and cranked it all the way to the right to straighten it out, and wound up crashing head-on into the outside wall. And who could forget when he wrecked himself a few weeks earlier at Richmond when he and Kurt Busch were playing a meaningless game of "You wreck me, I wreck you". For a guy who's won five Cup titles, he certainly is accident-prone, which is one of the many reasons why I would take the older 4-time champion over Jimmie any day. Not to start another "Gordon vs. Johnson" debate (which I highly enjoyed by the way), but the two of them are very similar to John D. Rockefeller and his son John D. Rockefeller, Jr. On one hand you have the father, who built his oil industry from the ground-up, and on the other you have his son who took control of his father's oil industry after it was a booming success. The end result: The son died having made more money than the father. Does that mean the son was more successful than his father? No, because he inherited a prospering business and took advantage of it by making himself a lot of money too. In this case, Gordon is Rockefeller Sr. and Johnson is Rockefeller Jr. Gordon helped mold HMS into what it is today, taking it from a top 10 team that once won 6 races in 4 years, to a championship team that was capable of winning on any given Sunday. Johnson on the other hand inherited an already thriving business. He was even given Gordon's '01 cars during his rookie season in '02, the very cars that Gordon won the championship with. Gordon wanted Johnson to succeed and knew that by giving him the best equipment, and by taking his own knowledge to HMS's new cars, that the two of them together would take HMS to the next level. Now, HMS may be the strongest team that has ever existed in NASCAR (or at least a close 2nd to Petty Enterprises from the '60s and '70s). Gordon understands that NASCAR is a team game and has done everything that he can to ensure that HMS is the number one team in NASCAR, no matter if their championships come from him, Johnson, or maybe even Kasey Kahne in the near future. 470. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.22.2012 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Dale Sr never should have become Dale Jr & Mikey's lackeys that fateful day he should have just gone into business for himself and won that race if he had done that he would still be alive and NASCAR might be in much better shape then it is now. 471. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jim, I think you're focusing way too much on the sponsorship aspect of it. Take a look at Ryan Blaney for example. He didn't bring any new sponsors over to the TBR #36, the Penske #22, or the BKR #29, they were already there. So far this year he's been sponsored by SealWrap (a TBR sponsor since the start of this year), Discount Tire (a Penske sponsor since 2010), Snap-On (which has been a Penske partner for 30 years), and Cooper Standard (which has been with BKR since last year). She doesn't need to go out and get sponsors (although that certainly helps), but if she can get a bigger team's attention with her driving (which she has to a degree with RCR) and gets approval from the team's sponsor(s), then she will have a future with them. Having connections may be more important than sponsorship. An example for this is Brad Sweet. Do you think he went out and obtained sponsorship from Great Clips. No, but he does have connections with Kasey Kahne from his sprint car days, and Kasey has been partnered with Great Clips for 10 years. Sponsorship is the be-all and end-all in this sport (it has been for many years), but at this point she needs to have connections and catch the eye of a team owner looking for a new driver. Once again looking at Blaney and Sweet, both BKR and Turner Motorsports wanted a new driver, and went with these two. Sweet already had a relationship with Great Clips, so their pairing made sense. But Blaney brought nothing to the table other than his driving talents. After seeing Blaney finish 7th at Richmond earlier this year, Brad Keselowski started talking with Cooper Standard and Mopar about making a driver change from Parker Kligerman to Blaney. After the sponsors agreed to the change, the change was made and now Blaney drives for BKR. It's not just the drivers that have to obtain sponsorship, but the owners are responsible as well, and the ones who step up like Brad Keselowski are the ones who can make a difference in this sport for drivers who are unable to secure sponsorship on their own. 472. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Dale Earnhardt really wanted to have a 1-2-3 finish between himself and his drivers. It would be only the second 1-2-3 Daytona 500 finish among team members in NASCAR history, with the first occurring in 1997 when HMS teammates Jeff Gordon, Terry Labonte, and Ricky Craven did it. Though Dale didn't drive for DEI, he was technically a teammate to Michael and Junior since he did sign the checks. I think as an owner, he wanted to see his drivers succeed and experience the thrill of winning the Daytona 500 like he did three years earlier. The problem with that is Earnhardt went into defense mode and did everything he could to keep a pack of very fast veterans like Marlin, Rusty, Schrader, and Elliott behind him, and made one more block than he should have and it cost him his life. I've never heard anyone say this before, and I know that Dale had a great retirement set up for himself, but does anyone think that maybe in that moment Dale, after winning seven championships, building a powerhouse team, having 4 kids, marrying a great woman, and winning the Daytona 500, felt content with his life and was ready to go? That is, he felt he had nothing more to accomplish and that seeing his team with a driver that had never won before win the Daytona 500 was the last thing on his bucket list? I have no reason to believe that's true, but the thought just occurred to me and I wanted to know if anyone else though about it. 473. cjs3872 posted: 10.22.2012 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And let's not forget that Johnson did the same thing in the fall race at Charlotte in 2007 when he got back in trafic and spun out on his own. In fact, I think Johnson has spun out on his own in about seven or eight Chase races, including three of the last six Charlotte Chase races, if I remember right. He also fell so far behind in 2004 with two or three unprovoked spins, that even with four wins he couldn't make up the lost ground, so Johnson has a history of that. It's almost like comparing A.J. Foyt's two biggest rivals, Al Unser and Mario Andretti (sorry, Parnelli Jones and Bobby Unser). Andretti was, by far, the faster of the two drivers, but also far more mistake-prone than Unser ever was, as well as being much harder on equipment. That's why, altohugh Andretti has more wins (52-39), and more championships (4-3) than Unser, Unser was far superior to Andretti when it came to handling pressure, because Unser rarely, if ever beat himself. Four Indianapolis 500 wins and the 1978 Triple Crown sweep of 500 mile IndyCar wins is proof of that, the latter being the one and only time that ever happened. In fact, Andretti has admitted many times over the years that he wished he had Unser's patience, because that was the only thing of any significance he lacked. 474. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And one more thing since I brought up DEI and Dale in my last post. I know everyone makes a big deal about Mikey winning his first race in the Daytona 500 on "The Day", and how Dale Earnhardt, Jr. won the next race at Daytona that July, but the one that almost never gets talked about is Steve Park winning at Rockingham the week after Dale's tragic accident. That is a great story that never gets discussed. Here you got a young kid from Long Island, New York (I guess only one New Yorker bothered Dale) who had been cutting his teeth in the Modifieds for the past decade, that nobody had heard of. Dale saw him in a Busch North race in '96 and gave him his first big opportunity to drive his Busch Series car in '97, and Park rewarded him with DEI's first career wins that came from someone besides Dale and finished 3rd in the points. Then after struggling with injuries in his first few years in Cup, Park won his first race at his native Watkins Glen track by beating the great Mark Martin, a 3-time winner at Watkins Glen, and proceeded to give one of the most thankful post-race interviews I have ever seen, ending with both Dale and Teresa Earnhardt giving him a big hug in victory lane. Fast forward six months to the Rockingham 2001, a week after Earnhardt died at Daytona. Park is battling the defending Cup champion and the guy who beat Earnhardt by 265 points the year prior, Bobby Labonte for the win. Park doesn't make a mistake, and to end one of the most emotional weeks of his life, holds off Labonte and wins at Rockingham, one week after losing his boss, mentor, and friend Dale Earnhardt. After giving a very thankful interview at Watkins Glen, Park gave one of the most emotional post-race interviews with tears in his eyes as he stood in victory lane without Dale by his side. It was a great feel-good victory for a sport in mourning and a driver who wouldn't be there had Earnhardt not taken a chance on him. I can never understand why Mikey's and Junior's victories at Daytona are celebrated by most people while Steve Park's is often ignored. Here you have a guy who was on the path to being a career regional driver, who caught the eye of Dale Earnhardt at a Busch North race in '96 (similar to how Jeff Gordon caught Rick Hendrick's eye in a Busch race in '92), works his way up the ranks, overcomes his relatively old age of being a 30-year old rookie, suffers a leg injury during his rookie season, struggles in '99, wins a race in '00 at a track that Earnhardt notoriously hated, and wins the first race without Dale at the track in '01. Park was a great racer who nobody would have heard of had it not been for Dale, enters the sport at 30 years old at a time when drivers are becoming younger and younger, overcomes an injury, and wins two races in a short, injury-ridden career. He was a great racer who's prime was unfortunately cut short later in 2001, and I get upset when people talk about Michael Waltrip and Junior, while ignoring the true racer that helped build DEI into what it became in the early '00s. 475. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I think Unser's ability to handle pressure better than Andretti is the reason why he has four Indianapolis 500 wins and Andretti only has one. You've said before that IMS is one of the easiest tracks to drive on, but one of the most difficult tracks to win on because everything has to go your way (or at least it does now, maybe it was different back in the '70s). If Unser is able to deal with pressure and adversity better than Andretti, than it shouldn't surprise anyone that he has three more Indy 500 wins than Andretti. It's not so much the "Andretti Curse" as it is the inability to handle pressure on the Andretti-side that has left them with one Indy 500 between them, while the Unser family (with Al Sr., Bobby, and Al Jr.) have nine between them. 476. murb posted: 10.22.2012 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's funny you mention DEI, Paul. I was just thinking about DEI last night. One of the big things I've always thought about is what DEI would have looked like had he lived. Honestly, I think DEI would still exist, and it would probably be one of the powerhouse teams in the sport. He would have been there to oversee it, and none of the nonsense that has gone on with that organization the past 10 years would have happened. But with his death, Teresa had to take over the company. I thought she did a decent job from about 2001-2004, but then her and Dale Jr and Kelley all started bickering or whatever and honestly, I think that was the demise of the company. And then of course the final nail in the coffin was the merger with that sleazebag Bobby Ginn. I don't count their "merger" with Ganassi because all it is is just Chip and Felix still running their team with a car that just happens to be the former DEI 1 car. I think one thing we can all agree on is that Nascar would definitely be different if things had played out differently that day. We can talk all we want about what DEI would have looked like, or what Dale Jr could have lived up to, but I think the most important thing about his death is the overall safety of the sport. As unfortunate as Dale's death was, it finally opened up the eyes of Nascar and made them say, "Wow, we need to do something to make this sport safer." Certainly, they should have realized this the year before (with the death of three drivers over the course of the year). So if there is anything positive that came out of it, it is that. 477. Tyler (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 10.22.2012 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not gonna look back at post numbers, so I'll just go on about Johanna Long regardless... I agree that she probably needs another year with MLM, but it would be nice if she dd find a "better" ride in the foreseeable future. There are two problems however -- one is sponsorship (of course) and the other is where exactly is she gonna go? * Turner Motorsports already has Justin Allgaier with James Buescher and Nelson Piquet Jr. working their way up the ranks -- highly plausible that a ride won't open up there for 2-3+ seasons * Joe Gibbs Racing - it has not officially been said but it seems almost a certainty that Brian Scott wont be back in the No. 11 next year. With Kyle Busch having his own N'wide team and Logano going to Penske, 3 rides could be available. Unfortunately, we could see Ryan Truex and Darrell Wallace Jr. immediately take up two of them (I think they're ready). That leaves the other, possibly the No. 18 or 20, which we could see Hamlin run half the schedule and could see Kenseth in a number of events. Not an ideal situation either. We also can't rule out the possibility that the rumors come true and Elliott Sadler comes to them next season. * JR Motorsports - As we all know, Danica will be going to Cup, thus leaving the No. 7 open, along with Cole Whitt already in the No. 88. However, there has been rumors that Regan Smith, one of Junior's good friends, could run for the team full time next year. Not to mention, there's also Chase Elliott, who is affiliated with Hendrick, but I believe Hendrick will eventually open up a new team for him when it comes down to it. Also, I don't see what's so great about Cole Whitt, but that's just me. He still has a lot of time to flourish and grow, and I'll be fair and give him that time. * Richard Childress Racing - We know that Elliott Sadler will not return next season, thus leaving the No. 2 slot open. It is unknown what will happen with that ride but it could be plausible that it's just a one year rental so Ty Dillon can take over the car in 2014 (although Austin Dillon will probably be in Cup then, so Ty to the 3 is likely instead). Regardless, one would think that we will see some type f veteran in the 2 next year -- Brendan Gaughan possibly? * Penske Racing - This could also be known as a clusterf***. Penske will likely have two cars next year, the 12 which will likely be Hornish and the 22. Ryan Blaney seems to be heade towards a full time ride next year in the car, if not, definitely 18 races. The other 18 will likely be Brad Keselowski, but then the question lies.. What to do with Logano, who has won 8 races this year? Again, not an ideal situation, unless Penske can find sponsorship go a third team. * Roush-Fenway - this is also tricky. RFR currently fields just one full time car in the Nationwide Series, that being of Stenhouse. Obviously, Stenhouse will go to Cup next year to take over for Kenseth in the 17. It has already been announced that Trevor Bayne will take over for Stenhouse and participate on a full time basis. Much like Penske, sponsorship will have to be found for Roush to open up a second team, of Johanna came on board. Even with all of this, she will have to fight with Brett Moffitt, Alex Bowman, Chris Buescher, Scott Lagasse Jr., Drew Herring, Parker Kligerman, Joey Coulter, Stephen Leicht, Jeremy Clements, Justin Lofton and also Reed Sorenson, (possibly) Brian Scott and unfortunately but I have to include them, Steve Wallace and Jason Leffler. There's no doubt its gonna be tough for Johanna, although I hope something comes into fruition. Like I've said before, she is very talented and makes Danica look like a blind hamster behind the wheel. 478. Tyler (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 10.22.2012 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Forgot to mention that Turner also has Brad Sweet (also not high on -- he just doesn't seem that great). They also have Kasey Kahne as well who does select events throughout the season. 479. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guys, the notion that Gordon "built HMS up" is overblown. Yes he came in while they were in the middle of their dreaded "Lumina Years" from '90-'94, but they had quite a bit of success before that. With the old shoebox Monte Carlo they were rock solid. Remember, Tim Richmond, Swervin Irvan before Swervin Irvan, gave the 1986 Winston Cup title quite a scare before Earnhardt did his usual deal of stepping on the gas to end a title season. And Darrell had a superb 1989. But they never got a hold of the Lumina and struggled to win, as Jeff did in his first two years with the Lumina. But then the new downforce Monte Carlo came out in 1995, brought in a new era of "aero push", and HMS won the next 4 championships. So although Gordon showed what HMS cars were truly capable of when they don't have the words "LuminaN on the front, he didn't exactly "build the place up". 480. joey2448 posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've never heard anyone say this before, and I know that Dale had a great retirement set up for himself, but does anyone think that maybe in that moment Dale, after winning seven championships, building a powerhouse team, having 4 kids, marrying a great woman, and winning the Daytona 500, felt content with his life and was ready to go? That is, he felt he had nothing more to accomplish and that seeing his team with a driver that had never won before win the Daytona 500 was the last thing on his bucket list? I have no reason to believe that's true, but the thought just occurred to me and I wanted to know if anyone else though about it." I saw an interview Darrell Waltrip had with Dale Sr. on FOX, like a week before the 2001 Daytona 500, and Sr. was saying stuff like, "I've got it all, Darrell," and "I'm happy with where I am." So obviously he was content with his standing in life at that point. 481. Jim Davis posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jim, I think you're focusing way too much on the sponsorship aspect of it." Paul, I really don't think so. NASCAR doesn't have a talent shortage; it has an acute money shortage. Take a look at this list: http://www.motorsportsanalytics.com/prospects.html At first glance Long is sitting pretty. She is 13th out of 40 and has steadily moved up all year. (And no other female is anywhere near this list.) But half the names on this list will never see a full time Cup ride. And there are plenty more even younger drivers pushing their way up. She has to separate herself from that pack. The best way to do that is to bring money to a potential ride. That's how the arguably less talented Patrick is doing it. Patrick markets her sex appeal; Long needs to market her "girl next door who guys love to bring home to meet Mom" appeal. 482. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ty, the plan for JGR's Nationwide team next year is for Elliott Sadler and Brian Vickers to run the full schedule, with a 3rd car to be split between Denny Hamlin, Matt Kenseth, and development drivers Darrell Wallace, Jr. and Drew Herring. There's been no mention of Ryan Truex in their 2013 plans. Nothing is official, but that looks to be the direction they're going in. JR Motorsports is working on a deal with Regan Smith to drive the #7 in 2013 to be teammates with Cole Whitt. From what Kelley Earnhardt has said, the #7 is fully sponsored and they just need to work out the detail of the contract before the deal with Regan is official. Cole Whitt however isn't sponsored for the full season. That could change before the year is over, but right now his future with the team beyond 2013 is questionable. And Chase Elliott won't turn 18 until after the 2013 season, so the earliest that he could run in the Nationwide Series is 2014. Nothing is known with RCR's Nationwide program other than Austin Dillon will be back in the #3 next season with hopes of going to Cup in 2014. His brother Ty will be full-time in the Truck Series in 2013, but could certainly run a part-time schedule in the #33, along with Kevin Harvick and Paul Menard. I don't know whether Brendan Gaughan will be back for 2013, but it's possible he could replace Joey Coulter in RCR's #22 in the Truck Series. And it's unknown who, if anyone, will be in the #2 Nationwide car in 2013. I think the plan for Penske Racing is for Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano to split time in the #22 in hopes of winning the owner's championship, with Jacques Villeneuve racing at Road America and maybe the 3rd road course (if there is one) and Ryan Blaney racing any events that Brad and Joey can't make. I think Blaney is a lock for BKR's #29 truck for 2013. Johanna Long won't go to Roush because they can't even obtain sponsorship for one car, let alone two. Trevor Bayne will attempt the full season for Roush in the Nationwide Series, with Michael Annett in the #43 as his satellite teammate. There's a better chance that Johanna would go to RPM than Roush, but I highly doubt RPM is opening up another Nationwide team next year. As for the rest of the drivers you listed, Brett Moffitt has a development deal with MWR/RAB and will probably run a part-time Nationwide schedule for RAB next year in a 2nd car (Travis Pastrana has said that he'll most likely be running the full schedule in 2013); Alex Bowman will most likely be back in ARCA (pending sponsorship) and may continue his part-time schedule with Turnerl; Chris Buescher will return to ARCA to drive for the Roulo Brothers, Drew Herring as I mentioned will be with JGR; Scott Lagasse, Jr. and Reed Sorenson are planning on running the full Nationwide schedule with the #8 and #98 teams, respectively; Jeremy Clements will be back with his #51 team. Nothing is known about the others' 2013 plans, but Parker Kligerman says he has a Nationwide deal lined up; Joey Coulter has been in talks with KBM and ESR in the Truck Series; Brian Scott will probably have a ride somewhere, but nothing is known yet (the Truck Series would be perfect for him); and Stephen Leicht, Steve Wallace, and Jason Leffler may be without a ride (although I'm sure Leffler will somehow find one like he always does). 483. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jim, that is a pretty interesting list because most of the drivers are about where they should be. I do think it's kind of funny how Josh Wise is ranked 32nd out of 40, and yet here he is with a full-time Cup ride. The top three are right where they should be (Stenhouse, Buescher, Kligerman) as I believe all three have great Cup potential, although Stenhouse's learning curve will probably take longer than the other two. Justin Allgaier shouldn't be in front of Austin Dillon though, because of how much better Austin has performed in his 1st Nationwide season than Allgaier has in any of his four Nationwide seasons. Plus Allgaier's driving style has bitten him on several occasions this season, which along with his lack of results, has probably scared away several Cup teams, as we've seen Cole Whitt (ranked 8th), Timmy Hill (ranked 16th), and Josh Wise (ranked 32nd) have Cup rides this season while Allgaier hasn't. 484. ch posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There may be a ride open at TriStar Motorsports. It has already been announced that Hal Martin will drive the 44 full time. That leaves the 10, 14, and 19 still open. If McClure / Hefty resign for the 14, and Bliss comes back with Bandit Chippers / G-Oil for the 19, then that would mean all 3 cars would be fully sponsored. That could mean that the 10 would no longer be a S&P. Whether Green remains is questionable, but so are Bliss and McClure. TriStar is THE strongest independant NNS team (Turner should not be included as they get engines / chassis from Hendrick). TriStar builds their own engines, cars, eveything is done by themselves with no alliances. Do not forget those 3 open seats, as one could be for Johanna. 485. cjs3872 posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, in post #479, you forgot a key ingredient in the resurgence of Hendrick Motorsports in the mid 90s, and that was the arrival of Terry Labonte. I still do not think it was an accident that Hendrick started to go downhill when Ricky Rudd replaced Geoff Bodine in the #5 car in 1990, nor do I think it was an accident when they started to move back up when Labonte replaced Rudd in the #5 car. Hendrick Motorsports was not a real team in the four years that Rudd was there, because Rudd was never a team player and was much more comfortable being a lone wolf. Remember that in 1994, they did manage to win five times in Luminas, including in two of the sport's biggest races, the Coca-Cola 600 and the very first Brickyard 400 at Indianapolis, and Ken Schrader had his best career points finish of fourth. And Paul (#475), it was actually easier to win at Indy, in a way, back in the 1970s than it is now, for one reason, and that was that, until 1979, the field did not bunch up during caution flags. you had to run much harder than you have to now because the field didn't bunch up, but if you got a big lead, you kept it when the caution came out. For instance, when Bobby Unser and Mike Mosley crashed late in the 1971 race, Al had about a 30-second lead over Peter Revson, who by this time in the race, had a much faster car, but was unable to close the gap during the caution. Had he been able to, Revson would probably have won the race. And in 1978, Al had a 30-second lead on Tom Sneva late in the 1978 Indianapolis 500 when he made a rare error, running into one of his tires, and doing some slight damage to the suspension, but had a big enough lead to give up 2 seconds per lap and still win comfortably. Had the caution flag come out between then and the end of the race, Sneva would still not have ben able to close in. Al's luck also held up frequently. Aside from that near-miss in the pits in 1978, when Rick Muther and David Hobbs crashed on the main straightaway, Al almost got tangled up in that. When he pitted during that caution period, his crew found debris blocking one of the two radiator inlets, so they removed it, and at about that same time, teammate Joe Leonard, whith whom Al had been swapping the lead, suffered turbocharger failure during that caution, thus removing Al's biggest threat. And in 1978, turbocharger failure also cause the demise of his greatest challenger, Danny Ongais, who would have been close enough to take advantage of Unser's pit error later. Unser was the best ever at the Indianapolis 500, but he got his fair share of lucky breaks, though he also had problems while comfortably leading the race in both 1973 (engine) and 1979 (transmission). And in 1967, he almost had victory fall into his lap when A.J. Foyt nearly got tangled up in that crash just prior to the start/finish line, and he might also have won in 1972 had a less savvier driver than Mark Donohue ben leading and low on fuel, as Donohue was late in that race. 486. Paul posted: 10.22.2012 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well if Hal Martin continues to drive the way he did at Kansas, his seat may open before 2013 ends. Seriously, I'm all for side-by-side racing and everything, but don't go side-by-side with a lead lap car if you're 15 laps down and in your first race on a mistake-prone track. I'd be very surprised if McClure or Bliss aren't back for 2013, and Jeff Green has driven their start-and-park car for the past three seasons and will likely be back, hopefully with more full distance races on his schedule. And you're right ch, TriStar Motorsports is the best independent team on the circuit. The only other teams that don't get their engines from Cup teams are Jeremy Clements Racing, JD Motorsports, Means Racing, MacDonald Motorsports, and NEMCO Motorsports. In fact, JD Motorsports gets some of their engines from Jeremy Clements' team. 487. 18fan posted: 10.22.2012 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) To me Justin Lofton was way too high on that list of prospects. Outside of his win at Charlotte he has not impressed me at all in the Truck Series. 488. murb posted: 10.22.2012 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I agree 18fan. I think Lofton has some potential, but he was definitely way too high. From what I've been seeing, one guy that deserves a shot in the top three series is Corey Lajoie. He's finally come into his own this year in the East Series by winning multiple races. He's got personality too, which I like, and I'm sure some type of sponsor would like. Plus, he's got his dad (NNS legend Randy Lajoie) to kind of guide him. I like him a lot. Other guys on my radar include Ross Chastain (great job in the Truck Series this year with less than stellar equipment), Kyle Larson (who will supposedly run full time in the Truck Series for Turner Motorsports in 2013), and Chris Buescher (Arca Champion, surely he'll find something). 489. Paul posted: 10.23.2012 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I disagree with you guys about Justin Lofton, as I think he and Eddie Sharp Racing have had a great year in only their 3rd full-time Truck season. A lot of that has to do with their acquiring of a lot of KHI's equipment, but up until a few weeks ago, Lofton was still in the championship race. He started year out very well with 7 straight top tens, including his 1st career win at Charlotte. The first three races with Speed Energy (Robby Gordon's company) as a secondary sponsor featured some of his best races, with the first race being his Charlotte win and him leading a combined 121 laps in that span. After Kentucky, College Complete left the team, and they've struggled to obtain a primary sponsor for the 10 races since. He was 5th in the points, only 31 points back despite not having a primary sponsor, through 14 races. He even recovered from terrible starting positions at Pocono and Bristol, and came out of it with a top ten finish both times. Then 3 of the past 4 races, he's had good finishes cut short by being involved in crashes not of his making. At Iowa he ran into a wrecked Caleb Roark as Roark's truck began rolling down the track. Then at Las Vegas, he got hit by Miguel Paludo coming out of turn that caused him to lose control and take out Johnny Sauter that ended both of their nights. And the last race at Talladega he led for 20 laps before getting caught up in a wreck and hitting the inside wall. I've seen a lot of good things out of Lofton this season that, provided he and ESR obtains primary sponsorship, I believe he will be a contender for the Truck championship in 2013. Will he make it to Cup? Who knows. But he is one of the smoothest drivers in the Truck Series and is very capable of running up front with a strong truck and overcoming bad qualifying positions to finish up near the front. Remember, at one point he, Timothy Peters, and Austin Dillon were the strongest trucks in the series. If not for running out of sponsorship and his recent bad luck, Lofton is right in the thick of things for the championship. 490. 18fan posted: 10.23.2012 - 1:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I should have been more clear in my post, but I was mainly referring to his prospects as a Cup driver. I don't think he will be a factor in Cup, but he is a guy who can have a successful career in the Nationwide and Truck series. I think his win at Charlotte was fantastic. I just don't see him as a top prospect to be in Cup in a few years. 491. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.23.2012 - 9:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think the plan for Penske Racing is for Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano to split time in the #22 in hopes of winning the owner's championship" great...just great. with the possibility of kbm running a younger driver in some races next year, it was looking like next year could be the first nns season since 2003 that had some races that no cup drivers were scheduled to compete in. seriously, who gives a f**k about the damn owners championship? the only owner poins positions that have mattered over the past few seasons are the guys on the bubble. and if you can only earn driver poins in one series, why can you even earn owners points in more than 1 series? it would be a HUGE mistake for penske not to run ryan blaney in at least 10-15 nns races next year. of course, it was a huge mistake for penske to hires guys like jeremy mayfield, kurt busch, david stremme, and joey logano in the first place, so there you go. 492. Baker posted: 10.23.2012 - 10:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1 Keselowski 2243 2 Johnson 2225 -18 3 Hamlin 2191 -52 4 Bowyer 2186 -57 5 Kahne 2169 -74 6 Busch 2140 -103 Dispite a 5th for Stewart and Kyle Busch finishing 31st Kyle stayed alive by a slim 8 points. Keselowski and Johnson are the only 2 safe from elimination next week but it would take something big for Hamlin or Bowyer to fall out. It will be between Kahne and Busch to see who's season is over. 493. Paul posted: 10.23.2012 - 10:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A.J. Alllmendinger will be in the #51 car at Martinsville regardless of Regan Smith's availability with the Dale Jr. situation. 494. cjs3872 posted: 10.23.2012 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave #38 Fan, sure we, as fans may not care about the owner's championship, but to the car owners, it's always been a big deal, because it means that their teams were the best for the that given season. A case of this was the #40 team in 2002. Even when Sterling Marlin was sidelined, the #40 team still scored points and finished in the top ten with Jamie McMurray driving the last 8 or 9 races. While Marlin's point total stopped, his team's did not. The same is true regarding the #88 the past two races. Regan Smith's performances were very important to how the #88 shows up in the owner's standings, and it's probably back in the top ten due to Regan's fine showing at Kansas. So while the fans don't even know or care about the team championship, it's always been very important to the car owners. 495. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.23.2012 - 11:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, i don't see what the big deal about owners championships are for the car owners. the drivers championships are what matters. example: in the future when people look back on the 2010 truck season, they will see that todd bodine was the champion, not the #18 team driven by several different drivers. as long as you're locked in, owners points don't matter. on that note, i think they should do away with owners points and lock guys in based on drivers points, say the top 30 for the cup series. so everybody from brad keselowski to casey mears would be locked into the field for this week, every in any of them went to drive for a different team. for example, regan smith is 23rd in drivers points, if he was to drive, say the #87 this week, they would be locked into the race because regan is in the top 30 in driver points. meanwhile, while the #51 car is 27th in owners points, since allmendinger is 32nd in drivers points he would not be locked into the field. this system would reward drivers who run the full season, and would really benefit full-time nns drivers and prevent them from being bumped out of the field by cup drivers. 496. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.23.2012 - 11:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) meant even not every in line 6. 497. Jim Davis posted: 10.23.2012 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "this system would reward drivers who run the full season..." But it would punish owners and sponsors that have a lot of money on the line. For example, this year Allmendinger had a lengthy suspension for substance abuse. Is it really fair to Penske and Shell to force Hornish to qualify on time? 498. Anonymous posted: 10.23.2012 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I care a great deal about the owners standings, though I'm in the miniscule minority here. I am probably the only one who takes the time to calculate the standings using my system. 499. David posted: 10.23.2012 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #498 was me. 500. Bronco posted: 10.23.2012 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr will offically be back in the #88 next week at Martinsville. 501. Paul posted: 10.23.2012 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The #49 Robinson-Blakeney Racing team has closed up shop and will be auctioning off all of their assets a week from today, including their race cars, engines, hauler, EFI systems, shop equipment, pit road boxes and more. 502. JRacingFast posted: 10.23.2012 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @501 I didnt even notice that they stopped showing until i read about it today. 503. Jarrett88fan posted: 10.23.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why is Matt Kenseth a genuine champion? "You never know when or if your next win is," Kenseth said. "Especially as you get older, you really appreciate it more. I'm really, really thankful and humble to be sitting up here, honestly. It's just a pleasure to drive (the Roush) stuff. We still have some races left we want to win. I just think it says a lot about these guys sitting here, Robbie, everybody else, how hard they work, give me the best stuff, give me a chance to win every week." 504. cjs3872 posted: 10.23.2012 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I said, Dave #38 Fan, the owner's points don't mean a whole lot to the average fan, but they mean a LOT to the teams, especially those with drivers that are ineligible to score driver's points. Need I remind you that the winner of last year's Daytona 500 received ZERO driver's points, but the team got the full 47 points in the owner's standings. And this year, you know how many points the driver of the #22 Shell car has gotten in the driver's standings? The answer is none, because Sam Hornish, Jr. is earning points in the Nationwide Series. Yet the #22 still gets full points in the owners standings. And remember that exempt positions, or provisionals have always been decided by owner points, not driver points. Sure, we may not know what the owner point standings are, or even care, but it means more to the owners than the drivers points do, except for those battling for he championship, because it means money, and possibly whether or not they even get into the race. Now don't be surprised if next year's Daytona 500 sees at least one car in the top 25 in owner points miss the race, and/or the top 25 in speeds miss the race, since they're going back to the pre-2005 format in setting the field for the Daytona 500. After all, there usually is one top 25 team that fails to qualify for the Daytona 500. In fact, Rick Mast failed to qualify for the Daytona 500 in 1997 in a car that finished 19th or 20th in owner points in 1996, because all the provisional spots had been used up by the time they got to the #75's position in 1996 owner points, which was inside the top 20. But the golden rule for qualifying for the Daytona 500 was, and will ba again next year, top 20 in speed and top 20 in points is almost guaranteed to make the race, but if there are a lot of wrecks in the qualifying raes, all bets are off. 505. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.23.2012 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jim davis-yes, it would have meant that hornish and the #22 team would have been a go or go homer every week. but locking drivers in instead of cars would have prevented some of the nns teams like go green racing, sr2 motorsports, and rab racing from having "buy a ride" scrubs like dexter stacey, derek white, angela and amber cope, matt carter, john wes townley, etc., from ever being locked into the field. 506. Talon64 posted: 10.23.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""I think the plan for Penske Racing is for Brad Keselowski and Joey Logano to split time in the #22 in hopes of winning the owner's championship" great...just great. with the possibility of kbm running a younger driver in some races next year, it was looking like next year could be the first nns season since 2003 that had some races that no cup drivers were scheduled to compete in. seriously, who gives a f**k about the damn owners championship? the only owner poins positions that have mattered over the past few seasons are the guys on the bubble. and if you can only earn driver poins in one series, why can you even earn owners points in more than 1 series? it would be a HUGE mistake for penske not to run ryan blaney in at least 10-15 nns races next year. of course, it was a huge mistake for penske to hires guys like jeremy mayfield, kurt busch, david stremme, and joey logano in the first place, so there you go." Mayfield came along with Michael Kranefuss' team when Penske bought it after 1997. Stremme was just a stop-gap driver when Penske couldn't get Keselowski for 2009. And Logano's still only 22, which would be pretty young for a 1st-year driver but he's going into his 5th year in Cup. Moving to a new team could give his career a total reboot. BTW, Hornish still doesn't have a signed contract with Penske for 2013. If for some reason Hornish ends up leaving then I'm sure Penske would plug Blaney into the #12. In which case Blaney would benefit from having Keselowski and Logano as his teammates for most of the season. 507. ch posted: 10.23.2012 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is completely my opinion, but Regan Smith could possibly drive the #33 this week. I know that the equipment is terrible, but at least he would have a ride. Martinsville is a place where the car matters less than most places, so it is a possibility. 508. Paul posted: 10.23.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The owner's championship give teams such as the Penske #22, the JGR #18, and the RCR #33 an incentive to run the full schedule. As of now, there have been five teams that have won the owner's championship that did not also win the driver's championship: The RCR #21 in '03 (Kevin Harvick and Johnny Sauter), the RCR #29 in '07 (Jeff Burton and Scott Wimmer), the JGR #20 in '08 (Tony Stewart, Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin, and Joey Logano), the JGR #18 in '10 (Kyle and Brad Coleman), and the Roush #60 in '11 (Carl Edwards and Billy Johnson). There's a good chance that there will be a 6th team added to this list as the JGR #18 currently leads the RCR #2 by 21 points. It's a way for teams that aren't racing for the driver's championship to go out and prove that they are the best team in the series, and in some ways it's better than the driver's championship because they've proven that they can win the championship with more than one driver behind the wheel. Dave, that would be really bad for younger drivers if team's were locked into the race based on driver's points, instead of owner's points. Sure, not all of them belong in the Nationwide Series, but it's good that they at least got a shot at it in mediocre equipment. If NASCAR started locking drivers based on driver's points, we would probably see a lot fewer younger and development drivers because unless a driver is attempting the majority of the schedule, he'd never be locked into the race, and teams prefer to be locked into the race if they're going to put inexperienced drivers in their cars (such as the SR2 #24 and the Go Green #39). 509. Jim Davis posted: 10.23.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but locking drivers in instead of cars would have prevented some of the nns teams like go green racing, sr2 motorsports, and rab racing from having "buy a ride" scrubs like dexter stacey, derek white, angela and amber cope, matt carter, john wes townley, etc., from ever being locked into the field." It would have also prevented serious drivers like Johanna Long, who can only afford to run a limited schedule, from making races. At the Kentucky race in June, she needed to get in on owner's points (accumulated from a host of drivers including Long) after spinning out in qualifying (and making a great save). This is the one of the reasons why the field is set by owner's points. It allows a single owner to field multiple drivers who may have widely varying levels of sponsorship available. Sure you get Copes, but you also get Johanna Long, Darrell Wallace, Chase Elliott, Ryan Blaney, etc. Drivers and owners would find it much harder to secure sponsorship if every non full time driver had to make the field on time. And NASCAR needs all the money it can bring in these days. 510. Scott B posted: 10.23.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #507... I've thought about the possibility of Regan Smith in the #33 for a race or two this season. He may just sit this week out because he was still on standby until Jr was officailly cleared to drive, not leaving much time for him to talk with other teams. If he does any races in the #33, I hope it would be running the full distance. It's also still very possible he'll get an audition in Finch's #51 before the end of the season, even though 'Dinger has been announced as the driver for Martinsville. It would be a shame to see him on the sidelines for all 4 remaining races, I don't expect that to happen. 511. Bronco posted: 10.23.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A bit of trivia, but Matt Kenseth's last 8 wins have been with 8 different sponsors. These sponsors covered products such as whisky, sunglasses, toilet flushes and now soap. Going to predict that Matt's season in the #20 next year will be worse than this one, with less wins and less consistency but a chase spot regardless. I don't how good Jason Ratcliff truly is as a Cup crew chief. Plus all the effort will go into making sure the #18 makes the chase and that the #11 seals the deal on the championship that they're probably going to lose out on. 512. murb posted: 10.23.2012 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said a couple days ago, I think it would be cool to see Regan just run some NNS for JRM in preparation for next year. It sounds like that is where he will end up. There's only three NNS races left, so he could just drive their third car (the 5 car) for those three. It would be awesome if it happened. 513. Spen posted: 10.23.2012 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David: "I care a great deal about the owners standings, though I'm in the miniscule minority here." So do I. Whenever I make an entry list for an old season on NASCAR Racing 3, the owner point standings are what I go by to decide who gets in. BTW, the '80's are up. Bronco: "Plus all the effort will go into making sure the #18 makes the chase and that the #11 seals the deal on the championship that they're probably going to lose out on." If Hamlin fails to seal the deal again this year, I expect that next year (and the rest of his career) will look a lot like 2011. A win here and there, but mostly a vague chase contender who disappears once the chase starts. Think a more talented Ryan Newman. Basically, Hamlin does well only when Gibbs is ticked at Shrub. I agree that getting Kyle back into the chase will be prority #1 next year, but getting the Home Depot car back into the chase, and more importantly back to being synonomus with sucess will be #2. If they'd kept Logano, and started a fourth team for Matt, then yes, next year would have been a disaster for him, but I expect that he'll end up somewhere around 6th in points next year. 514. JG24FanForever posted: 10.23.2012 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What does this mean??? What's the criteria for a comeback?" Jimmie J has an astonishing record of making "comebacks", the 197 total is just a little joke about it. 515. David posted: 10.23.2012 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "BTW, the '80's are up." And, in turn, another batch of APPRs. 1980: Cale Yarborough, 11.39 1981: Darrell Waltrip, 15.16 1982: Darrell Waltrip, 13.10 1983: Darrell Waltrip, 13.80 1984: Terry Labonte, 10.53 1985: Bill Elliott, 12.89 1986: Dale Earnhardt, 11.14 1987: Dale Earnhardt, 14.81 1988: Rusty Wallace, 12.38 1989: Rusty Wallace, 9.90 (Ouch) 516. Spen posted: 10.24.2012 - 2:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you think that hurts, just wait 'till we get to 2002. 517. Benjamin Lowe posted: 10.24.2012 - 7:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Reutimann should be banned from racing at Martinsville after his antics there six months ago. 518. Peter posted: 10.24.2012 - 9:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come-on Rick shut Jr. down for the year and put Regan back in the car. Why risk it? I know its his competitive spirt & his doctor & NASCAR cleared him to race, but you can have the final say. Dale is not going to come back and win the championship & he is going to be very vunruble to getting another head injury this soon after the last one. Just shut him down for the remaining races; its better to be safe then sorry 519. Spen posted: 10.24.2012 - 10:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The '90's are up now. We're really cooking now. 520. cjs3872 posted: 10.24.2012 - 12:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Peter, I think that would be especially true at Texas and Homestead. In fact, if the series was at Texas this week, I'm not sure Dale, Jr. would be in the car because of the high speeds, but since they're racing at the slowest track on the circuit this week, it's a perfect time to put him in, just to see how he holds up, because the chances of him getting another concussion at Martinsville are minimal. Let's also rememebr that, unlike other car owners, Rick Hendrick is almost never going to "put his foot down" and stop someone from racing. I tihnk we all pretty much know that. And remember that if he's not feeling up to it after the nearly four-hour contest at Martinsville, Rick could always have someone else drive the car at Texas. 521. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.24.2012 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) regan smith will run the full 2013 nationwide season in jr motorsports #5. 522. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan Smith has officially signed with JR Motorsports for 2013. There will be a number swap, as Smith will drive the #5, Cole Whitt will drive the #7, and the #88 will become the part-time entry that Dale Earnhardt, Jr. will drive (and most likely Ron Fellows on the road courses). Smith will make his JRM debut at Homestead when he drives the #5. Phoenix Racing has announced their remaining plans as well. A.J. Allmendinger will drive the #51 for the next two races (Martinsville, Texas), while Smith will drive it for the final two races (Phoenix, Homestead). NASCAR has been in discussions with Circuit Trois-Rivieres, a road course in Quebec, Canada, about replacing Montreal on their 2013 schedule. It seems talks with Mosport have broken down as that facility hasn't met NASCAR's track criteria. 523. Peter posted: 10.24.2012 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I'm glad Regan got something for helping out Jr. 524. JG24FanForever posted: 10.24.2012 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm not going to do like JG24FanForever and pull up every single statistic that exists (I'll leave that to him if he so chooses)." Ha!! I'm sorry i'm so late with this, i've been too busy for internetting of late. Anyway, you forgot that Gordon has won with 5 Crew Chiefs not 4. Brian Whitesell ring a bell? Back-Back wins in Gordon's first 2 races without his "Chad". I enjoyed the JG vs JJ debate,which Gordon wins! 6 straight Road Race wins gets no love? He went from having none to tying Bobby Allison,Rusty Wallace,Richard Petty, all in a row! I apologise for offending people with my rampant Gordon stats, I am JG24Fan you know. One more tidbit that none of you have probably noticed is that when Gordon got his 10th Top 5 this year, he broke Big E's Modern record of 16 double digit Top 5 seasons giving Gordon 17 out of 20. 525. JG24FanForever posted: 10.24.2012 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^Make that mutliple wins with five different Crew Chiefs. 526. Rusty posted: 10.24.2012 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Word is that Cole Whitt is indeed moving to the #7, but JRM hasn't secured enough sponsorship to guarantee a full schedule for Whitt. 527. JG24FanForever posted: 10.24.2012 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Despite missing two races June would still be be 9th without the Chase?!? Is this indicative of the flaws in the points system? 528. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The best thing for JRM to do is to at least get Cole secured for the races that the #88 won't be in, because both Junior and Fellows will have sponsors. That way JRM will always have at least two competitive sponsored cars in each race. 529. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24, that happened back in '01 under the old points system. Kevin Harvick wasn't in the Daytona 500, but had a strong rookie campaign and finished 9th in the points, with the #3/#29 team finishing 7th in the owner's championship. 530. JG24FanForever posted: 10.24.2012 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I totally forgot about Harvs excellant Top 9 points finish depsite missing a race. But June being Top 9 with TWO races missed is also impressive(even though he's 12th) 531. JG24FanForever posted: 10.24.2012 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dsff,"Petty and Pearson is the greatest rivalry ever. Anyone who disagrees is wrong." I personally liked the Wonder Boy and The Man in Black rivalry more than any other. In my mind, Gordon is just as aggressive as Dale ever was and this is downplayed to the point that people don't remember him crashing Morgan Shepherd for his 13th win in 1998 or the number of times he's crashed Ryan Newman or the occasions Gordon has given Rusty Wallace absolute hell at Bristol and so on... But the "rivalry" between JG and Big E was(according to Evernham)akin to the Wolf and Sheep Dog cartoon, and if you don't understand that analogy, look it up! 532. Talon64 posted: 10.24.2012 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To me Justin Lofton was way too high on that list of prospects. Outside of his win at Charlotte he has not impressed me at all in the Truck Series." David Smith's prospects list takes into account PEER (Production in Equal Equipment Rating), so Lofton's up there because of what he's doing with Eddie Sharp Racing, even though they've got KHI's old stuff now. Pretty old actually, the truck that Lofton's racing this weekend at Martinsville is from 2010. The most interesting driver in that list to me is James Buescher. His ranking on that list is actually from his NATIONWIDE performance and not Trucks. Considering he'd be top 7 in points in Nationwide if he were running full time in what's been Turner Motorsport's 3rd-tier car this year, then that seems about right. However, that list hasn't been updated since September 21st. 533. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin Swindell will make his first Nationwide start since Dover in May 2011 at Texas in two weeks, driving the #98 for Biagi-DenBeste Racing. He'll then return to that car at Homestead. A few days ago, Travis Pastrana had surgery to repair the rotator cuff and labrum in his left shoulder, an injury he had kept secret for about 10 years because of the long recovery time it would recover. Twice this season, his shoulder dislocated during a race, once during a late model race at Michigan in July, and again during the K&N Pro Series East race at Charlotte. The surgery will require a 4-month recovery period, which means he should be at full strength for Daytona in February. In other words, Pastrana has been placed on injured reserve for the remainder of the 2012 season. Things don't look good for Ryan Truex's future. His Nationwide sponsor Grime Boss will be sponsoring Jason White in five Truck races between the remainder of the 2012 and 2013 seasons, including this weekend at Martinsville. What makes this situation odd is that Ryan Truex will be in that race too, but he's unsponsored while Jason White will have Truex's previous sponsor. I don't know what this means for Truex, but it doesn't look good. 534. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's amazing about Turner Motorsports is that their Nationwide cars aren't fast enough to win, and yet they have won six races in the past two years. Although five of those wins have been fluke victories, with Nelson Piquet, Jr.'s win at Road America the only dominating win, it says a lot about that team that even though they're not very fast, they often put themselves in position to win if something happens to the leader on the last lap, which is exactly how they got their five other wins (Martin at Vegas, Allgaier at Chicago and Montreal, Sorenson at Road America, Buescher at Daytona). The only time that I remember a Turner car being fast came at Michigan this year due to the draft being a factor on the repaved track. James Buescher got a great restart and ran in 2nd place for the final four laps, but just couldn't pass Joey Logano for the win because while the draft allowed him to keep up with Joey, his car wasn't fast enough to pass him. 535. murb posted: 10.24.2012 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great to hear about Regan!!! Also, I just read that Denny Hamlin will be running a second Truck for Kyle Busch Motorsports this weekend at Martinsville. It sort of makes sense because he is the defending winner of the race. Harvick is in the race too. That being said, I hope a Truck regular takes it to both of them. I think the reason why Turner's NNS cars is so slow is because they have bitten off way more than they can chew. They were just a small, nice little Truck Series team just 2 years ago. But since they bought Braun Racing, it seems like instead of organizing a solid team in both series, they just added all of Braun's teams on, and it really hasn't worked out in NNS. They've become somewhat of a power house in the Truck Series, which is great. But like we said, in NNS, they really haven't been that good despite their wins. One last thing about Turner: I heard Ray Dunlap on Race Hub a few weeks ago talking about how the future of the team is kind of up in the air. There were rumors going around that they wouldn't be back in either series in 2013, but Steve Turner quickly shot that down and said they would be back. I think all this goes back to what I said before. I just think they have bitten off more than they can chew. And even though they are supposedly coming back next year, if I was James Buescher or Nelson Piquet, I would start looking at other places to drive. I wouldn't want to be on a potentially sinking ship like that. I just wouldn't risk it. 536. Eric posted: 10.24.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, The Dale Earnhardt Sr and Jeff Gordan rivalry is way overrated and I question it being a true rivalry between the two drivers themselves. I was a teen when I followed NASCAR Starting with the 1993 Daytona 500. I know the so call rivalry very well and was overrated. Dale Sr. and Jeff Gordan were business partners off the track. They even founded Chase Authentics. By the time Jeff became a cup driver, Dale was a smart Businessman off the track when it comes to stuff like Marketing despite only have 7th grade education. That means the rivalry partly was created from a business standpoint point. Dale saw Jeff as an upcoming driver that could be a big star. Dale was almost 42 when the 1993 Daytona 500 happened. That meant Dale had a personal interest in Jeff from a money standpoint and helped Jeff off the track for business ventures. Jeff Gordon as a Driver brought in a fanbase that was different from the Dale Earnhardt Sr. fanbase. The rivalry seemed to me as a battle of the two fanbases because Jeff was beating one of the biggest names in NASCAR history. Dale's fanbase didn't like it at all. The two fanbases didn't even know Dale and Jeff were business partners off the track. The 3rd problem calling it a true rivalry was the fact Dale was almost 42 when the 1993 Daytona 500 started and Jeff was only 21 at the time of the Daytona 500. That meant Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhardt Sr. were not really in their peaks at the same time. Dale got hurt in summer of 1996 and it was a start of a string of injuries he had from 1996 to 1999 along with RCR going downhill. When Dale got healthy again in 2000, Jeff was in a transition year because he had a new crew in Robbie Loomis. The 1995 points battle wasn't as strong as it looked in points at the end of the year. 537. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.24.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) turner is getting better every year, next year they'll be stronger than ever. in a few weeks it will be announced that kyle larson has been signed to drive the full truck season from them, and james buescher will likely move up to nns full-time. 538. David posted: 10.24.2012 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you think that hurts, just wait 'till we get to 2002." Oh, I don't doubt that. 1990: Dale Earnhardt, 12.83 1991: Dale Earnhardt, 9.66 1992: Bill Elliott, 8.90 (New record low*) 1993: Rusty Wallace, 13.33 1994: Dale Earnhardt, 12.06 1995: Jeff Gordon, 11.82 1996: Jeff Gordon, 12.82 1997: Jeff Gordon, 13.06 1998: Jeff Gordon, 15.68 1999: Bobby Labonte, 11.78 *So far. 539. Spen posted: 10.24.2012 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I'd gotten done a half-hour sooner, you could have done two decades at once. Anyway, 2000-present is now posted. 540. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.24.2012 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There was no rivalry between Earnhardt and Gordon. If it compares to anything, it would be the "rivalry" between Petty and Earnhardt 15 years earlier. It was more of a changing of the guard from the legend in his last days of greatness to the new hot shoe. Of course the difference is Dale came back to be relevant once again in 2000 while Petty, after his mid season 1980 neck injury when he was battling for the Cup with Dale and Cale, slowly faded into obscurity never to return. The truth is Dale and Jeff were never top notch at the same time with the exception of '95 and the first half of '96. In '93 and '94, Jeff was fast but accident prone (Stenhouse before Stenhouse) while Dale was honestly at his peak as a driver. He put up better numbers in the past, most notable '86 and '87, but from '90 until his brutal '96 Dega injury, nobody in NASCAR history did a better job of getting the most out of what they had than Dale did during that period. Instead of the bull in a china shop deal he did from his rookie year through 1987. But by 1990, RCR was behind many of the other teams, especially when the new Monte Carlo came out in 1995, and the cars couldn't take the abuse they once could as aero became more and more important. In this time frame, Dale mastered knowing when to be aggressive, when to chill a bit, when and how to send a psychological message in or out of the car, and could carry the car so much further than anyone else due to his ability. Then the 1995 Monte Carlo came out, Jeff matured behind the wheel, and HMS had the hot ticket while RCR never caught up. Throw in some tough breaks at Bristol, back to back at Martinsville and Dega in the Spring, then both Michigan races, and Dale is 300+ points back. And no, I won't go over the ending of that season again. I have done that enough. In 1996, RCR is even further behind, but they still have Dale behind the wheel. Throw in some bad luck for Jeff, the fact DJ isn't ready yet, and T Lab just would never push a car, instead just sitting back and letting things fall in his lap (and Jeff dumped it in his lap that year) and Dale is in the thick of the points race once again in the Summer. Then the Dega wreck happened and he was done. I know I whine about 1989 a lot, about if Dale had one more race in '95, or if B Lab had failed to finish more than 9 laps in '00. But if I could redo any season for Dale, I wanna see what a healthy, still at the tail end of his prime Earnhardt could have done in the points race in 1996. I think his talent and savvy carries that #3 car to Dale's record setting 8th championship. I truly believe that. Anyways, Jeff was on frwaking fire from then through '99 while Dale was injured and with an even further declining RCR (when he needed RCR the most cause he was too hurt to carry the car, they let him down badly). Then, in 2000, Dale gets surgery, RCR takes on an investor, and Dale Jr rejuvenates him putting Dale back in the "to win, you must beat the following people" list while HMS has their 2nd worst season ever behind only 1992 (I know they didn't win in '85; +75 Bodine still had a ton of Top 5 finishes in a year where Bill won 11 of the 28 races). So they never truly had a rivalry. 541. David posted: 10.24.2012 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2000: Bobby Labonte, 9.65 2001: Jeff Gordon, 10.31 2002: Tony Stewart, 7.43 (Ooof) 2003: Ryan Newman, 8.92 2004: Jimmie Johnson, 10.67 2005: Tony Stewart, 9.33 2005 Chase: Mark Martin, 6.14 2006: Jimmie Johnson, 8.58 2006 Chase: Tony Stewart, 8.17 2007: Jimmie Johnson, 11.36 2008: Carl Edwards, 11.50 2009: Jimmie Johnson, 9.39 2010: Jimmie Johnson, 9.14 2011: Carl Edwards, 8.86 542. David posted: 10.24.2012 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "and Jeff dumped it in his lap that year" Yes, because we all know that one engine problem in a race that your main points rival dominates and wins constitutes a dumping-in-lap, even when it is preceded by three straight victories. 543. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We talked about the Gordon/Earnhardt "rivalry" a few weeks ago and basically debunked their it then. DSFF did a very nice job summarizing it. I never knew they had a rivalry until I was reading through a NASCAR almanac from 1998 that showed a picture of their cars side-by-side with the caption saying something along the lines of "Gordon and Earnhardt had one of the fiercest rivalries in NASCAR during the late '90s". I always thought Gordon had better rivalries with Rusty, Mark, and Bobby Labonte than he did with Earnhardt, because at least they were healthy and with strong teams who could contend for wins on a weekly basis. With Earnhardt, it was more like the the "changing of the guard" than anything. Earnhardt was the reigning World Heavyweight Champion and it was Gordon who took the title from him and held on to it for the majority of the next six years ('95-'01, with '00 being an "off year"). Their "rivalry" is FAR overrated because Gordon became the sport's number one guy in time to prevent Earnhardt from winning a record 8th Cup championship, while being almost the exact opposite of Earnhardt. Earnhardt drove an intimidating black car; Gordon drove a bright rainbow car (ironically, both are synonymous with success). Earnhardt was born in the mill town of Kannapolis, North Carolina; Gordon was born in the San Francisco suburbs of Vallejo, California, before moving to Indiana to begin his racing career. Earnhardt dropped out of high school to go race; Gordon had been racing since age 4 and was named "Prom King" during his senior year. Earnhardt didn't have his dad for guidance for most of his racing career; Gordon's stepfather was there for him as he rose up the racing ranks. Earnhardt went through five years of turmoil after winning the '80 championship; Gordon never had five years of turmoil until, well, the past five years due to his back injuries and constant crew changes. Earnhardt was a man's man; Gordon wore a rainbow suit and had a "whiny" accent. The differences between them were so huge that they just HAD to have a rivalry. The Earnhardt fans resented Gordon because of his "California cleancut look", and the Gordon fans liked him for those exact reasons. In reality, it was a cosmetic rivalry since the two of them were working together behind the scenes, along with the fact that aside from '95 and the first half of '96, they were never at the top of the sport at the same time. I still believe that they both would have battled for the championship in '01, but unfortunately fate prevented that from coming to fruition. Also DSFF, don't compare Gordon to Stenhouse. A part of the reason why Gordon wrecked so much in his first few seasons was because Ray Evernham set the cars up to be too loose, because they had such great success with it in the Busch Series, which doesn't work because of the great horsepower difference between the two cars. Stenhouse has done everything he can to lose the championship this year due to his aggressive driving that borders on blunt stupidity. He wrecked himself at Dover, he ran over his pit crew at Kentucky (then blamed Erik Darnell for being in the pit stall before his), hit the wall twice at the 2nd Kentucky race, and then got an undeserving win at Kansas after running up the track into Logano. There's a difference between wrecking because of the cars and wrecking because of the driver, and Stenhouse is a prime example of the latter of the two. 544. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only reason why Gordon "dumped it in Terry's lap" in '96 and why Rusty didn't "dump it in Dale's lap" in '93 is because of where their misfortunes occurred during the season. Rusty's happened all early in the season, and even though Dale had three finishes outside the top 20 near the mid-point of the season, Rusty couldn't catch him because he was too far behind. On the other hand, Gordon had bad finishes throughout the season and was never in the top 2 for consecutive weeks in points until race 24. Gordon didn't deserve the title that year because he made more mistakes than Labonte. They had equal top fives (21), equal top tens (24), and Gordon had more wins and led more than twice as many laps as Terry, but Terry beat him by having fewer bad finishes. Terry had just one finish worse than 26th; Gordon had six finishes worse than 30th. Gordon truly didn't deserve the title that year, and had he won it, it would have been for his wins. In '93, Earnhardt's average finish was 8.2 and Rusty's was 9.4; in '96, Terry's average finish was 8.2 and Jeff's was 9.5. Terry won the championship not because he was the most dominating driver, but because he ran well the entire season, not at frequent spurts throughout the year. I know a lot of people complain about the old points system because it rewarded more for consistency and not enough for wins (unless of course a driver had both), but the right man won the championship in '96, and it was the man who ran better over the course of 31 races (not 10 like they do today). And that year, it was Terry Labonte. I think some of you guys believe that finishing 2nd in points is a bad thing, especially since it came from a dominating driver who lost to his conservative teammate. But have you ever considered how hard it is to run great for an entire season to finish 2nd in points in the first place? More so, Gordon finished 2nd in points after finishing outside the top 30 SIX times (1/5 of the schedule). Gordon's '96 season shouldn't be looked at as a choke (especially since he led the points for fewer races than Stewart in '02), it should be looked at as championship-caliber year that wasn't meant to be because of too many bad runs throughout the course of the season. He led the points for fewer races (5) than he had 31st or worse finishes (6). Does that look like a driver who deserves to win the championship? No. 545. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.24.2012 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. Watching the World Series, not really paying attention, and they did the Stand Up To Cancer segment. Seeing so many people holding up signs in the stands and the dugouts with names of people close to them, it gave me goosebumps. Can't remember the last time a sporting event did that to me. Really powerful. 546. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.24.2012 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry, but when you have a 100+ point lead with 4 races left, no matter how you got there, you gotta bring it home. Just like Dale in '89. He had a 100+ point lead after Dover but didn't win, so he also gets a checkmark in the "should've won it but didn't" category. Remember, he also had an engine failure in the Fall Charlotte race (just 13 laps in! ). And yes he got dumped at Wilkesboro and Rockingham. But we can't overlook mediocre runs at Martinsville and Phoenix that could have proved the difference. Other examples: Darrell '79, Bobby '81 and '82, Bill '85. 547. David posted: 10.24.2012 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But have you ever considered how hard it is to run great for an entire season to finish 2nd in points in the first place?" Love the unintended play on words. I guess there's no point in arguing my view, especially since winning the championship in any racing series is a TEAM effort, and that most of the time, people will just mention the driver. 548. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The driver is to his team what the quarterback is to his team. They can be the most talented one in the game, but if their team makes too many mistakes or if they get outplayed too many times, they're not going to win the championship. I think what helped Earnhardt win seven championships is that he was at his best in an era with very few multi-car teams. Once multi-car teams began to take over the sport, RCR began to fall way behind to the point where they've now missed the top 10 in points altogether four times in the past decade. If Earnhardt had come into the sport in 15 years later when multi-car teams began to take charge in the mid-'90s, he would have had a tough time winning just one championship, let alone seven, if his team wasn't as strong as the ones dominating the sport. He benefited from entering the sport when the sport wasn't so technical and corporate, and that fit he and RCR perfectly during the '80s and early '90s. 549. Paul posted: 10.24.2012 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's video on speed.tv where Steve Byrnes and Matt Clark answer viewers questions, and one question asked why Danica wasn't fined for intentionally wrecking Landon Cassill. Immediately my "BS Meter" went off so I don't remember everything that he said, but I do remember him saying at one point: "I understand fans want consistency, but..." That pretty much summarizes everything wrong with NASCAR today. 550. cjs3872 posted: 10.24.2012 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you say that in 1993, when Jeff Gordon first came into NASCAR's top series, that Dale Earnahrdt, Sr. was at his peak as a driver. I hate to disagree with you, but I believe that is incorrect. Dale's peak was a few years before that, from 1986-'90. I think his career started it's downward slide in 1992, but it wasn't noticeable for a few more years. Dale was near his peak in 1993 and 1994, when he won his last two championships, but he wasn't at his peak. I actually think you could first start to see him slide in the second half of the 1994 season. Remember, despite winning he championship, he had a 20-race winlees streak that ended on the day he clinched his seventh championship. So he was sliding even then. I think the on-track death of Neil Bonnett at Daytona, as well as the other heavy crashes due to the 1994 tire war had an adverse effect on him, particularly Ernie Irvan's, as did the aviation crashes the took the lives of Davey Allison and Alan Kulwicki in 1993. I don't think he was ever the same after those events, especially Allison's death, since Earnhardt and Allison had a burgeoning rivalry starting. I think that really got to Earnhardt more than he was ever willing to admit. But Earnhardt was still the best at that time, he was just not at HIS best, and I think the tragedies of 1993-'94 had a bigger effect on him than anyone realizes, because in less than 16 months, Earnhardt lost the successor as champion, one of his greatest rivals in Davey Allison, and nearly lost another in Ernie Irvan, not to mention losing his best friend in Neil Bonnett, and I think those events really shook Earnhardt up. The one rivalry I think everybody would loved to have seen flourish, but never had a chance to because of those events, would have been a rivalry between Davey Allison and Jeff Gordon, because you would have had not only the two best young drivers at that time, but also the old American motorsports rivalry of Ford vs. Chevrolet. That would have been great to see for 10-15 years, but we'll never know what would have happened. I tihnk a rivalry between those two could have been bigger than any of the rivalries of the Earnhardt era, because Allison and Gordon could both win anywhere at any time, so the race fans of that period were robbed of a potentially great rivalry. 551. 18fan posted: 10.25.2012 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think Neil Bonnett's death had the biggest effect on Dale not only because they were great friends, but because it was Dale who wanted Neil to come back to racing. 552. cjs3872 posted: 10.25.2012 - 1:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not just that 18fan, but because Dale and Neil were contemporaries. Earnnhardt began his Cup career in 1975 at the World 600, while Neil started his a year earlier at Talladega in the 1974 Winston 500. Bonnett scored his first two wins in 1977, while Earnhardt got his first in 1979, his first full season in the Sup series. And ironicaly, Dale won the race at Darlington where Neil was so badly injured in 1990. And you say that if it wasn't for Dale wanting Neil to return to racing that Neil Bonnett would still be alive, or at least he would not have been killed in 1994. I'll take that a step further. If you're right, then Davey Allison might also still be alive if Dale had not wanted Neil to come back, because it was to watch Neil Bonnett test at Talladega for Richard Childress just after the inaugural Cup race at Loudon, NH in 1993 that Davey had his fatal helicopter crash in the Talladega infield. I say that because Davey and Red Farmer went there just to see Neil Bonnett's test in RCR's #31 car on that dark July day, when tragedy struck. So if you're right, Dale Earnhardt, Sr. not only had Neil Bonnett's death weighing heavily on him, but Davey Allison's as well. 553. David posted: 10.25.2012 - 9:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #552 Factual error: It was David Bonnett who was testing. Wasn't it? 554. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.25.2012 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCR's equipment was more competitive from '86-'89. By 1990, Roush had showed up with all sorts of engineering innovations, Yates was a year away from exploding, MMM was showing spunk, Alan Kulwicki began winning with his team which also had engineering innovations, etc. As I said, his statistical peak was in '86-'87, but he employed very little strategy back then. He just mashed the gas, went as fast as he could, didn't worry about contact as aero wasn't refined to the point where any dent could mean half a second per lap. This was not the case from '90-'96. That was the greatest stretch for a driver getting the most from his equipment. Yeah the stats dipped comparitively, but that was better stats than anyone else could have got. And although Neil's death had an immeasurable impact on Dale personally, the numbers don't show it had any effect on his on track performance. His numbers didn't truly dip until his Dega crash in '96. He won his qualifying race a few days after Neil died and won 3 of the first 10 races that year including Talladega. If Neil's death affected him on track, it would have shown up at Daytona and Dega. And as for the "Dale wanted Neil to come back", he wanted that cause Neil wanted it so bad, but no teams wanted to touch Neil after his awful head injury. So Dale convinced Richard to give him a car, he did, and that got him a part time ride for 1994. Everybody said Neil was miserable cause he wasn't racing anymore despite a hugely successful broadcating career. Read the book about Bobby Allison and the Alabama Gang called "Miracle". He wasn't twisting Neil's arm by any means. 555. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.25.2012 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And yes it was David Bonnett who was testing. Besides, Davey loved flying his helicopter so much he would have found anything for a reason to fly it. Besides, Dale believed, as I do, in a thing called fate. If he could be here to see all the fuss made over his own death, he would say "What the hell are y'all making a big deal over? It was my time to die and I died". 556. David posted: 10.25.2012 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They had equal top fives (21), equal top tens (24), and Gordon had more wins and led more than twice as many laps as Terry, but Terry beat him by having fewer bad finishes. Terry had just one finish worse than 26th; Gordon had six finishes worse than 30th." Terry's number of finishes in the top 15: 24 Jeff's number of finishes in the top 15: 25 Terry's number of finishes between 16th and 26th: 6 Jeff's number of finishes between 16th and 26th: 0 Terry's number of finishes of 27th or worse: 1 Jeff's number of finishes of 27th or worse: 6 You can interpret that any way you want. All I want to say is that a 111-point lead with four races to go is not gained by making mistakes. Any other year, that would have won the title. It just so happened that the #24 team picked exactly the wrong race to have engine issues. But they never slipped up after that, and they still lost. My point? You cannot place the 1996 title loss entirely on Jeff's shoulders. 557. cjs3872 posted: 10.25.2012 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually DSFF, Neil and David Bonnett were both testing at Talladega that fateful afternoon. Neil was testing for his comeback, which ended up being ill-fated, and David was testing to begin his racing career, which ended up being short. So they were both testing, and Davey and Red Farmer were flying to see the test. I believe they were more interested in watching Neil's test, though they were probably excited for David, as well. Let's also not forget that test came not long after Bobby Allison climbed back into a race car for the first time since his Pocono crash, in the Fast Masters series that was part of ESPN's Thunder series that year, so it was a great time for the entire Alabama Gang which turned to become tragic in a heartbeat. But to answer the question posed by David (#553) and DSFF, both Neil and David Bonnett were testing at Talladega on that fateful day when Davey's helicopter crash happened. 558. cjs3872 posted: 10.25.2012 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, it looks like there will be nine or ten S&P's at Sunday's race at Martinsville, so the fewest number of points that a driver that will try to go the distance can get this Sunday is 10, meaning that the most ground that can be gained/lost is 38 points, instead of 47. That's why when you look at the points and drivers trying to come from behind, that it's a much harder task than is being mentioned, because of the S&P's taking up the bottom 7-9 positions, which means that 15-20% of the possible gain/loss in terms of point swing is already taken before each race begins. The fact that there are so many S&P's in every race is what is going to make it so difficult for guys like Denny Hamlin and Clint Bowyer to catch up, especially if they don't make up any ground this weekend. With only 80% of the possible points available to be made up, all Jimmie Johnson and Brad Keselowski have to do this weekend is to hold station. If Keselowski can keep Denny Hamlin and Clint Bowyer within his sights, he's going to make it extremely difficult for them to catch him in the final three races, and if he were to finish in front either of them, it would effectively eliminate them from the picture, which means it could be down to a two-way battle between Keselowski and Johnson after this weekend at Martinsville. Certainly, at least one of the Toyota challengers will be eliminated from serious contention after this weekend's action at Martinsville, if not both of them. 559. Jim Davis posted: 10.25.2012 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And by the way, it looks like there will be nine or ten S&P's at Sunday's race at Martinsville, so the fewest number of points that a driver that will try to go the distance can get this Sunday is 10, meaning that the most ground that can be gained/lost is 38 points, instead of 47." I think you overstate the case somewhat. First, there were only 8 start and parks at Kansas and other races have had fewer. Second, some of the start and parks run a considerable distance into the first fuel run before retiring. So a driver who has a problem early can come away with fewer than 10 points. For example, Brian Vickers finished dead last at Watkins Glen this year behind all 7 start and parks. 560. cjs3872 posted: 10.25.2012 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jim, I was referring to this Sunday's race at Martinsville when I made that comment about possibly nine or ten S&P's. Remember that the #21 car was at Kansas last week, but it won't be at Martinsville this weekend, so that will add one S&P car to the field, if all eight non-exempt cars plus the #36 car S&P, which would increase the fewest number of points a car that tries to go the distance can get to 10, since there figure to be just 34 cars trying to go the distance. And what happened to Brian Vickers at Watkins Glen was driver error, as he either overrevved his engine or missed a shift on the start and only ran one lap. Something like that doesn't figure to happen at Martinsville. It might at a place like Texas, because the #88 of Regan Smith finished behind several S&P's due to engine failure at Charlotte, but it isn't likely at Martinsville. But what happened to the #88 car at Charlotte is exactly why I say we can't entirely rule out something like that happening to any of the main title contenders at Texas, because that is a 500-mile race, and anything can happen in a 500-mile race. Sure things should be clearer after the race at Martinsville, but with a 500-mile race looming at Texas, especially with a lame duck manufacturer involved (Dodge), anything could happen there. After Texas, we'll know exactly what the championship race will look like because the last variable, the season's final 500-mile race, will have been completed. 561. Paul posted: 10.25.2012 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, Dave Blaney has picked up a sponsor this week, so there's a good chance he will attempt the full race. That said, it looks like eight cars will start-and-park this weekend; seven if the #33 runs the full race, as it has for most of the shorter races this season (being that it's less than 300 miles, Martinsville is a shorter race). 562. cjs3872 posted: 10.25.2012 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I said there would be nine S&P's IF all eight non-exempt cars and the #36 S&P this weekend at Martinsville. And who's to say that, even though the #36 picked up a sponsor, that it still won't start-and-park? They might be doing that to help the #10 team, though why he would do that to help a team he's not going to have next year would be beyond me. And trust me, if teams like the #33 and #36 try to go the full distance, NASCAR is going to keep an eye on them, and any other potential stragglers because of what happened at Martinsville this spring. If the #36 picked up sponsorship, they might try to run the full distance, or more of the race distance, but again, I'll believe that when I see it. I just hope you're right, because the S&P's are one reason for the prolonged periods of green flag racing this season, because of the reduced on-track traffic. That's why NASCAR is reducing the size of the fields for the Nationwide Series next year from 43 cars to 40, and NASCAR might look into doing the same thing for the Cup Series, if not for the clause in the television deal requiring at least a 43-car entry list for NASCAR to get the full television money for that given weekend. 563. JRacingFast posted: 10.25.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For those of you who have been wondering what Ex Nascar Commentator Bill Webers been up to.....Hes annoucing Hydro Boat Racing! 564. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.25.2012 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs i thought tommy baldwin still planned on having it's 2nd full-time team next year, just renumbered as the 35 or something. at the beginning of the year they said the the 10's owners points from this year would stay with tommy baldwin because he was listed as the owner. 565. Spen posted: 10.25.2012 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JRacingFast: I highly doubt anyone was wondering what Bill Weber's doing. 566. rtcrules posted: 10.25.2012 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For those of you who have been wondering what Ex Nascar Commentator Bill Webers been up to.....Hes annoucing Hydro Boat Racing!" I feel bad for fans of hydro boat racing... 567. Paul posted: 10.25.2012 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Weber was a great pit reporter back in the day. I always enjoyed the pre-race show he hosted on NBC/TNT, but he was out of his element when he and Allen Bestwick traded places, with Weber becoming the play-by-play man and Bestwick moving to pit reporter. The NBC/TNT team was great the way it was, and I still don't understand why they made that swap. 568. cjs3872 posted: 10.25.2012 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave #38 Fan, how would he manage it, considering that he can't even keep one car fully sponsored? He might run it part-time, but there's no way I could feasibly see him running it all year next year if he can't even keep one car fully sponsored. And he's not the only fringe owner in that situation. Another ex-crew chief, Frank Stoddard (FAS Lane Racing's #32 car), is in that same situation, as may be long-time owner James Finch and his #51 Phoenix Racing operation. Like I've said, there may not be more than 30-32 cars running the full circuit next year and trying to run the full races. Other than the #10 car, which may or may not be transferring to Stewart-Haas Racing, I can't think of any new teams that will be entering the series next year, and we may be losing 1-3 of the teams in the current top 35, not that that would matter since NASCAR's going back to the old qualifying system for at least the Cup Series next year. 569. ch posted: 10.25.2012 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tommy said that the 10 points would remain with TBR, I don't see any reason why that would change since it was part of the initial deal. Do you really think that SHR wants Danica's owner's position to be 33rd at Daytona? What if there is a HUGE duel wreck involving her AND 8+ teams ahead of her in points ? Then she misses the race. If she has the 14 points and Smoke the PC provisional than all is well in SHR. Even if it is just a S&P, having Baldwin run 2 cars will strengthen the series by allowing the 36 to race more often. I HATE when people say, "Get rid of the S&P's already!" There are two types of S&P's... Those like the 98 which park for the profit, and those like the 26/36/87 who park in order to run full races with their other teams. The latter group should be supported, not shunned! 570. Dave #38 Fan posted: 10.25.2012 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the 98 doesn't park for profit, they run full races when they can afford to. 571. cjs3872 posted: 10.25.2012 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trust me ch, Danica is going to have the #14's points the next three races next year so that she can make the field at those races, with Tony Stewart using the champion's provisional, if needed. That how the Wood Brothers missed the 2008 Daytona 500, even with a past champion in the car, because Penske did that regarding the #2 of Kurt Busch and the #77 of Sam Hornish, Jr., giving Hornish the #2's points, because Busch had a champion's provisional to use. My point was that, if Tommy Baldwin didn't have enough money fo one car, how would he run two? And remember that, along with Tommy Baldwin, at least two other teams, FAS Lane's #32 car and Phoenix Racing's #51 may or may not run next year, and except for the #10 of Stewart-Haas Racing, there's no new team coming into the sport next year. There's a slight chance that Penske may start a third team if Brad Keselowski wins the championship with Keselowski having the champion's provisional to use(which could force Danica to actually qualify for the first three races next year), but if Keselowski doesn't win the championship, there's virtually no chance of that happening. The fact that there are only 33-35 non-S&P teams trying all the races and as many as three of those could drop out (32,36,51), that's how I got to the 30-32 total of cars running the full circuit and running the full races next year. 572. JRacingFast posted: 10.26.2012 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @567 "Bill Weber was a great pit reporter back in the day. I always enjoyed the pre-race show he hosted on NBC/TNT, but he was out of his element when he and Allen Bestwick traded places, with Weber becoming the play-by-play man and Bestwick moving to pit reporter. The NBC/TNT team was great the way it was, and I still don't understand why they made that swap." It had something to do with Alan Bestwick breaking his leg playing Hockey 573. ch posted: 10.26.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I stated in a previous race post, the 32 will return next year. I am 100% sure on that. And with adding the 35 to TBR along with the 36 remaining (which it will), the 10 will make up for the loss of the 51. I see 34 cars that will run full time next year (if the 35 parks). 574. murb posted: 10.26.2012 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It had something to do with Alan Bestwick breaking his leg playing Hockey" If I remember correctly, Allen did in fact break his leg playing hockey back in the Fall of 2004. So they let Weber fill in, and for whatever reason they thought he did a great job, so they just made a permanent switch. I'm with Paul. Bill Weber was a great pit reporter back in the old ESPN days and the early NBC/TNT days. But in the booth, he sucked. 575. David posted: 10.26.2012 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Remember that discussion with "just sayin" on the Michigan race page? Well, I think he won. 576. Paul posted: 10.27.2012 - 8:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, it sure seems that way. I was going to post this on the Martinsville page since it would have made more sense there, but since it isn't up, here's some of the latest racing news: Michael McDowell will replace Bryan Silas in the #99 truck tomorrow. Silas has come down with an illness and the team decided he wouldn't be healthy enough to race in tomorrow's race. This will be the first race Silas misses all season. Also, Jake Crum drove the #10 truck that Jennifer Jo Cobb normally drives in practice today. I'm not sure if he will drive the truck, but it looks that way since he drove it in both practice sessions. MWR will use the same three drivers in their #55 car next season. Mark Martin will drive it for 24 races, including the Budweiser Shootout and the All-Star Race; Michael Waltrip will race at Daytona in July and both Talladega races; and Brian Vickers will be at both road course, Martinsville, and Bristol races, along with the 1st Loudon race and Kentucky. Basically, it'll be the same schedule as this year except Waltrip surrenders his Kentucky date to Vickers. There's a great article about Jerry Nadeau and how he's been dealing with life after racing. In short, he admits to having a difficult time going to the race track knowing that he can't race, has frequent headaches, and feels like part of him died the day he was told he couldn't race anymore. Here's the link: http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/8547110/nascar-door-door-jerry-nadeau-road-back-never-ending&campaign=link&source=JAYSKI And for some sad news, Pam Jenkins, the wife of recently retired racing announcer Bob Jenkins, died on Thursday evening due to a rare form of brain cancer. Her husband, who retired from TV announcing following the 2012 IndyCar season to take care of her, was by her side as she passed away. They had been married for 44 years. 577. 10andJoe posted: 11.01.2012 - 11:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) -Clint Bowyer's 250th Cup start. 578. 10andJoe posted: 11.01.2012 - 11:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Er, never mind that - that goes on the Martinsville page. Silly me flipping between race results pages and getting them mixed up! 579. ch posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor for the #30 should be Swan Racing, as the team transferred over from Inception. 580. Nascar Lead Lap Points posted: 04.24.2014 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew 23 Scott Riggs Chevy North Texas Pipe Robert Richardson, Jr. 581. Jim posted: 03.04.2017 - 12:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the last win for the Fusion body style 2006-2012. It won 44 times in 7 seasons. 582. Gabriel posted: 05.18.2018 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, what a career race this could've been for Aric Almirola. I definitely say his finish in this race did not reflect his performance on this day. The guy has a rocketship of a car early on that competed for the lead, then he hits the wall, somehow races his way back up to the front, then spins off Turn 2 taking him out of contention for the win, and then later blows a tire and hits the wall ending all hopes of a good finish. :( Ironically, this was the same race Danica Patrick failed at payback, and now Almirola drives the 10 car. How times have changed! 583. Spen posted: 02.20.2020 - 5:39 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) The #43 led more laps in this race than it has led in the 7+ years since. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: