|| *Comments on the 2012 AAA Texas 500:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. Jocke Persson posted: 11.02.2012 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is the championship already over? 2. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.02.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Just love Brad's attitude. He is embracing the chance to battle the juggernaut for the sport's top prize. He is embracing the fight it will take to have a chance. Instead of taking the Denny Hamlin Memorial Woe Is Me approach to having the 48 looking strong, he seems to want it no other way. I love that. Obviously the smart money is on the 48 the rest of the way as he will most likely make the entire NASCAR world groan for a 6th time and continue to cause ratings and attendance to drop. But that doesn't mean we have to just concede it now. Brad definitely isn't, and as a +rad fan I am hoping and dreaming as much as ever. No matter what, Brad is the driver and story of the year. Yes I will be horribly disappointed if he doesn't win it. But I am proud as ever to be a fan of his. Comparing him to Denny in 2010, there is no comparison. Proud to pull for somebody who carries themself like that. But the fact is the "Go" button that I have spoken so much about all year is being pressed now. The emotionless 48 machine looks as strong as ever. Odds favor them. Hoping for a very pleasant surprise. 3. Talon64 posted: 11.02.2012 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson earns his 29th career Sprint Cup Series pole, tying him with Ricky Rudd for 23rd all time. It's his 4th pole of 2012, tying him with Mark Martin and Kasey Kahne for the most, his 2nd consecutive pole and 1st at Texas Motor Speedway. It's the 3rd time in his career that Johnson's won back-to-back poles, first since Indy & Pocono back in 2008. He also did it at Dover and Kansas in 2007. 4. murb posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh. 5. Spen posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is Newman's worst qualifying run since 2009. 6. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Watched the Truck race prerace for the first time in forever. You won't beleive this, but I have a few thoughts. First off, why are SPEED's vignettes on Truck races and drivers and past races so much better than anything that ever gets put together for the Cup Series? They are excellent. Secondly, classy move by Kyle by not doing any interviews on the anniversary of his dispicible actions towards Ron and subsequent suspension (love the Mike Helton quote: "That driver will remain in the parked position for the rest of the weekend"). And by "classy" I mean "typical douchebag Kyle". What a tool. And finally, please explain to the Truck and NWide guys that "that black #3 machine" only means something if "that 7 time Winston Cup champion" is sitting behind the wheel of it. Two rich grandkids who look like kide in bad cowboy costumes driving them just doesn't have the same effect. Speaking of SPEED, anyone else actually looking forward to the Kurt Busch documentary? I can't stand the son of a bitch, but that show looks fascinating. The previous SPEED documentaries have been very moving (on the '92 Hooters 500, the '84 Firecracker 400, and the '01 Daytona 500). Should be good. 7. Daniel posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In using fastest 43: #33 Stephen Leicht Out using fastest 43: #32 Ken Schrader 8. Paul posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that "comparison" that you made between Brad and Denny reminds me of a quote that Joe Theismann made on one of those NFL Top Ten shows, when he said "The NFL is for men, not for guys who think they're men." I think that's the biggest difference between Brad and Denny (along with other inconsistent title contenders). Brad is always confident in his abilities and in his team, and is one of the most mentally strong drivers drivers in the sport today. A lot of us knew he would be good after his impressive Nationwide seasons in '08 and '09, but I don't think we talk about how impressive he has been since his disappointing 2010 and first 1/3 of 2011 seasons were in comparison to how he's been the past year. Not every driver can handle adversity the way Brad has and might have lost confidence after having a bad first Cup season, and I think that's what separates Brad from so many other drivers today. It might be because he's had to deal with adversity his whole life, growing up in a blue collar racing family, and driving in junk equipment for years before getting his break. I think he just appreciates having good runs more than others and accepts the fact that you're going to have some disappointing races (or even seasons) in your career as a race car driver. I think that's what has made him the driver he is today, and he truly is a breath of fresh air in today's NASCAR. 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ouch Brad, that looks expensive. Now you have to win to pay for your Truck #motivation 10. Paul posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or he'll just have Ryan pay for it with his Nationwide pay check tomorrow. #toughlove 11. Paul posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I bet Ricky can name all 180 parts on that die-cast NASCAR car considering he's probably wrecked every part of his race cars the past three years. 12. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I remember watching an interview with Troy Aikman and they were talking about his rookie season when Dallas went 1-15 (0-11 with him as a starter). He said that was the best thing that ever happened to him, he never again underestimated how hard it was to be cmpetitive among the best of the best. I think the same is true of Brad with 2010. I know as a fan, suffering through that year REALLY makes me appreciate this year and the last 2/3 of last year. 13. murb posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have seen the preview to that Kurt Busch thing DSFF. It does look intriguing. I'll be watching it for sure. But honestly, the title of it made me laugh out loud. "Kurt Busch: Outlaw". Really? I came up with some better ideas for a title. Kurt Busch: Fall From Grace Kurt Busch: Kyle's Older But Way Crazier Brother Kurt Busch: Radio Sweetheart (Copyright Jimmy Spencer) Kurt Busch: Ricky Bobby Wannabe 14. murb posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meanwhile, Buescher is cruising to the Truck title barring a catastrophe. And I really hope that catastrophe doesn't happen, just because I don't want to see a Ty Dillon have one fall in his lap and then have everyone do the whole "Earnhardt's Legacy Lives On" thing just because he's running the 3. Also, like I've said before, Nelson Piquet is a future championship contending Cup driver. 15. Paul posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another good title would be "Kurt Busch: Me", as an homage to that driver's suit he wore at Talladega in the spring. Just because you get into trouble, does not an outlaw make. You still have to have a large amount of badass-ery to be considered an outlaw in my book, and while you can describe Kurt as both "bad" and "ass", I wouldn't combine the two words to describe him. But I guess by today's standards he is an outlaw. 16. murb posted: 11.02.2012 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "while you can describe Kurt as both "bad" and "ass", I wouldn't combine the two words to describe him." hahahaha!!!! That's seriously one of the best quotes ever, Paul. 17. Paul posted: 11.02.2012 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least with Buescher winning the title this year it would feel like a deserving championship. He and Turner Motorsports have really improved over the past three seasons together and hadn't won a Truck race before this season. As unlikely as it is at this point, having Ty win the championship would feel very undeserving because he's at where he is because of who his grandfather is. Buescher has actually dealt with adversity in his career driving for a no longer competitive Circle Bar Racing team in '09 and then was fired in '10 by James Finch after a few races. Seeing how much he has improved since last year has made me become a big fan of his and I hope James wins the title this year. 18. Paul posted: 11.02.2012 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will say this though in Ty Dillon's defense: He is more talented than his brother. Austin was never a title contender in 2010 as a rookie and finished off the lead lap 9 times, while Ty has been in the top 2 or 3 in points all season and has only finished off the lead lap twice (at Bristol when he ran out of fuel and at Martinsville when he damaged the trackbar after cutting a tire). Plus, Ty outran Austin in 2 of his 3 Nationwide starts this season (both times in the #51). By the way, that Sunoco Fuel "If I had a nickel..." commercial is stupid, but Matt Kenseth makes me laugh when he says "[If I had a nickel] for every time I get asked if Greg [Biffle] is my dad." Haha, it gets me every time. 19. Paul posted: 11.02.2012 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No other Truck Series driver can drive a truck that loose, keep it off the wall, and still maintain his speed quite like Nelson Piquet, Jr. He's got great car control. It's a shame he's had several bad finishes this season because it would be fun seeing him battling for the championship. He's like Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. if Stenhouse had his head on his shoulders all the time. 20. Dave #38 Fan posted: 11.02.2012 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) piquet made some rookie mistakes last year that took him out of contention for some top five finishes late in the race (see texas #1 and mighigan last year) but he's really improved this year. he will be a solid cup driver one day. i think for 2013 he needs a similar schedule to james buescher's this year, full-time trucks and 15-20 nationwide races to get ready for 2014. 21. Dave #38 Fan posted: 11.02.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) a cool bit of trivia-13 years ago, jay sauter won the fall texas truck race in rcr's #3 truck. now little brother johnny can add another texas trophy to the family collection. 22. Dave #38 Fan posted: 11.02.2012 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^^and johnny won in truck #13, how cool is that? 23. Eric posted: 11.02.2012 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, Did you see top 10 Quarterbacks of the 1970's on NFL Network? 24. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, I missed it. I need to start watching that channel more (my cable provider finally picked it up). It has some awesome old stuff. 25. joey2448 posted: 11.03.2012 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And finally, please explain to the Truck and NWide guys that "that black #3 machine" only means something if "that 7 time Winston Cup champion" is sitting behind the wheel of it. Two rich grandkids who look like kide in bad cowboy costumes driving them just doesn't have the same effect." Haha, DaleSrFanForever, perfect quote! My feelings exactly! 26. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's my favorite segment on the NFL Network. Usually they'll play a couple top ten lists during Monday Night Football, and if I don't care about who's playing, I'll watch the list show instead. A lot of great footage and history being brought up on that show, and I love it! 27. JP88 posted: 11.03.2012 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yep...let's just give him the trophy now. Like DSFF said at least Brad has the mental toughness to make Johnson earn it unlike the other guys before him (Carl, Denny, Harvick) 28. jabber1990 posted: 11.03.2012 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) would NASCAR benefit from building racetracks in Places like Nebraska, Wyoming, Utah? I dont mean like cookie-cutters (unless one was a plate track) I mean like a short track, or a road course. my one idea for an eastern Wyoming based track is a .75 mile Bristol clone with 45 degrees of concrete banking or how about a dog-bone shaped (like Texas, Charllote, Atlanta exept the tri-oval comes inward, forming a high-speed Chicane) that is 1 1/3 mile and yes, paved in concrete I also have another road-course Idea (with mixed pavement) that I cant describe, and another kind of box-shaped short track, I cant really describe them, but I do have hyperlinks what do you think? would the ideas work? 29. David posted: 11.03.2012 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Any of you people play NASCAR The Game: 2011? I was just playing that online. If so, do any of you plan to get the new game that's coming out in three days? 30. Dave #38 Fan posted: 11.03.2012 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) and the 2012 k&n east series champion is kyle larson! brett moffitt, leading at the white flag, was spun by 16 year old tyler reddick, who was making his first career start. moffitt and larson were tied in points and had moffitt won he would have gotten the tiebreaker by having more wins than larson, but after the spin he is unofficially credited with a 21st place finish with larson finishing 6th. reddick won the race, with lajoie in 2nd and wallace in 3rd. wallaced dominated the first half of the race but had to start and the rear after the halftime break because of unapproved adjustments during the pit stops. 31. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope like hell that jemmie has troubles or better crashes this werkend 32. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol. I decided to go out today and find some warm clothes for the winter. I really like a lot of the Carhartt clothing I had seen in the Bass Pro Shops catalog, but I didn't feel like going to Concord. Instead I only went as far as Lexington to places that sell Carhartt. Although I liked the clothing, I was disgusted by the prices. Through 3 shops I wound up only buying 1 off brand shirt that was $10. On the way back, while riding through Welcome, I stopped by this local diecast shop that is literally across the street from the old RCR race shop that is now a museum which produced 5 of their 6 championships (they moved there in '87 and raced out of there until they opened up the new and current one behind it in '02) and the new one that has produced some of the most uninspiring race cars ever. It is a hole in the wall, but its die cast collection is AWESOME. They have a ton of high quality WAY back in the day die casts. That is where I got my 1968 David Pearson Ford Torino blue and gold #17, my Bobby Allison 1971 fastback Cyclone BEAUTIFUL #12 Coca Cola "drinkbox" (as they used to call it), and my 1957 Petty Enterprises prepared Oldmobile that Ralph Earnhardt drove in some races "in what is now the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series" (I hate that phrase, it was the NASCAR Grand National division). Today I wound up spending $149 on a 1971 Purolator Cyclone that Pearson first drove for the Wood Brothers and a 1989 Goodwrench Monte Carlo, rare considering he only drove the Goodwrench car with the white number for a couple of months before the Lumina showed up. 2 of the 3 most iconic cars in NASCAR history (along with The King's day glo red and Petty Blue STP car). Yep, those are my priorities. And I am proud of that. Who needs brand name clothes when you can get some awesome diecasts? Also, I couldn't help but smile when I saw they had Jeff Gordon's car there from The Winston in 1998. Sorry Rainbow Nation. It is a good looking scheme though. They also had the silver car he will drive at Homestead, and all I could think is "Why?". 33. murb posted: 11.03.2012 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, congrats to Kyle Larson!!! He's got all the tools, for sure. In other up and comer news, I read on Jayski today that Kyle Busch wants to give Ross Kenseth (Matt's son) a ride in a KBM Truck next year. Ross has been turning heads in many different short track series the last couple years, and apparently Kyle has run some late model races against him and has been impressed. I think it would be awesome, and it definitely seems viable considering that Kyle and Ross' dad will be Cup teammates pretty soon. 34. Eric posted: 11.03.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, I don't have NASCAR the game:2011 and I am not interested in getting it. 35. David posted: 11.03.2012 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't have NASCAR the game: 2011 and I am not interested in getting it." Well, then how about NASCAR The Game: Inside Line? It is being released on Tuesday, and from what I have read, it is 15 times better than last year's edition. 36. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I'm with you on that one. Sometimes if I'm bored and in the spending mood, I'll go on eBay and order a set of die-cast cars, many of which are from the early '00s when I started getting into NASCAR. What size die-casts are they? Most of mine are 1:64 scale, but I do have four 1:24 scale cars. My 1:24 scale cars are Jeremy Mayfield's #37 RC Cola car from '97, Darrell Waltrip's #66 Big Kmart car from '99, and two '02 cars: Terry Labonte's #5 Got Milk? car that he only drove once or twice and Ken Schrader's #36 M&M's 4th of July car. Pretty nice, but I've always preferred the smaller die-casts. The most modern cars I have I got either last December or January when they were still up-to-date, them being A.J. Allmendinger's #43 Best Buy car and Aric Almirola's #88 Hellmann's car from last year. And of course, about a week after I got them, A.J. gets released by RPM and goes to Penske, and Almirola ironically replaced him in the #43. Ugh. I actually have Jeff Gordon's rainbow paint scheme, but it's nailed down to a pit road platform, so it's just for looks and not really for use. I also have his '01 and '02 flames paint schemes, which are really the only cars of his you need. For Dale Earnhardt, I have his celebratory Daytona 500 winning car that includes a victory lane platform with a small Earnhardt "action figure" on the roof with his arms in the air. I also have his '99 Oreo/GM Goodwrench car and his '00 Tazmanian Devil car. I think I have more Terry Labonte and Ken Schrader cars than anybody else. For Terry, I have his '99 Corn Flakes car, I have four of his Frosted Flakes car (I think three are from '01 and one from '03), a 1:24 scale model of his '02 Got Milk? car, and his '04 Spider-Man 2 car. And for Schrader, I have his '98 Skoal car, his '99 #15 Busch Series car, his '01 M&M's car, a 1:24 scale model of his '02 4th of July car, and his '02 M&M's car that's in the shape of a limousine. So I don't blame you for picking die-cast cars over clothing, as I have a pretty good collection myself. 37. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Justin Allgaier almost ran into Brian Scott during qualifying while Scott was on his cool down lap in turn 3. They have to do a better job of letting drivers go from pit road because nobody else came close to running into somebody. 38. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Disregard that. They just showed a replay and Brian Scott was well below the white line and out of the way. Allgaier just got wicked loose. 39. murb posted: 11.03.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've also got a ton of 1:24 scales from when I was a little kid. 1998 Dale Earnhardt Coca-Cola car (the one he ran in Japan). 1998 Bobby Hamilton Kodak car 1998 Steve Park Pennzoil car (I actually don't know if I still have it. I might have lost it when I moved or something.) 1998 Johnny Benson Cheerios car (Same as the Steve Park car - M.I.A.) 1999 Bill Elliott McDonalds OPC Name Game car (One of my favorite paint schemes ever. Google it if you don't remember.) 2000 Terry Labonte Rice Krispies car 2001 Kyle Petty Sprint 45 car 2002 Jimmie Johnson car (ROTY) 2004 Dale Jr car (It's kind of worthless because it's one of the kids version ones, so instead of the sponsor being Budweiser it just says "Dale Jr" all over it.) And I've also got probably over 100 1:64 scale cars that I've acquired over the years. There's lots of rare 90s ones from field fillers (like Brett Bodine's Paychex 11 car and Derrick Cope's Gumout 30 car). From time to time I still go back to look at them. They bring back a lot of memories. 40. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.03.2012 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a collection of 200-300 cars, including a Fred Lorenzen replica. 41. Eric posted: 11.03.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, I have no plans on getting NASCAR The Game: Inside Line at this time despite being a Nintendo Wii owner. I really haven't been into racing games since 2005. The most modern game consoles and hand held systems I got is Wii, Psp, DS, and DS XL. I do play a racing game once in a while, but I am not just into the genre like I used to. While I do play some modern games, I am a retro gamer. I am person who plays modern and old games. 42. Mr X posted: 11.03.2012 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another excellent name for the Kurt Busch documentary. Kurt Busch "That's the competitor in Me" 43. cjs3872 posted: 11.03.2012 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenny (#31), nobody should ever wish another driver to crash, especially at a high speed track like Texas. I remember getting hard on posters last year for making just such statements, and that's something that, as a longtime race fan, I will not tolerate without giving a harsh rebuttal. There aren't very many things that truly get me upset as a poster, but wishing someone else to crash is one of them, and should not be tolerated by any other posters on this site, either, because of the potential ramifications of such a crash on a high-speed track. Rooting against other drivers or hoping for engine failures or other mechanical problems is one thing, but hoping for a crash is something totally incomprehensible and reprehensible, and is something I will not tolerate, and nor should any other posters tolerate such statements. Let's not forget what happened in October of last year on successive days when Jimmie Johnson crashed head-on at Charlotte, and then that catastrophe at Las Vegas occurred the following afternoon that killed Dan Wheldon, and could very well have killed one or two other drivers, and four cars got up into the catch fencing. That is why I will never tolerate anyone wishing for another to crash on a high-speed track, and nobody else should tolerate such a statement, either. Wishing for mechanical problems or just rooting against a driver is one thing, but hoping for a crash croses the line, and should not be tolerated by anyone. 44. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! Swervin Stenhouse took it in way too deep but saved it. Damn he's fun to watch. 45. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just watched Notre Dame win ugly over an underdog Pitt team to go 9-0. It was very much like Stenhouse's win at Kansas two weeks ago. Were they good enough to win? Yes. Did their quality of play warrant a win? No. But did they win? Yes. Then again, as a fan of the "Golden Domers", I can overlook this because Notre Dame has been very stout all season before this game, whereas Stenhouse has repeatedly shot himself in the foot all year, and very well could lose the championship because of it. 46. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh I agree Stenhouse's style is counter productive to running for championships, just as Ernie before him was in his time in the #4 car (although MMM was never gonna win a Cup title so it didn't really matter). But he is good for the sport. In an increasingly bland era of racing, we need Swervin Stenhouse. 47. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What happened to Johanna? I am flipping back and forth between the race and the game between Clemson (my Dad's team) and dook (my arch nemesis). 48. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.03.2012 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The races at these 1.5-2.5 milers can be a labyrinth of boredom. 49. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Csj3872 wtf am I suppoust to do? I'm tired of jemmie winning the title every freaking year I'm close to not watching NASCAR anymore but idk if I can thou just JJ pisses me off so much 50. ch posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Using 2013 Qualifying rules (top 36 fastest then by owner's points)... 36th - #39 Newman (Last to time in on speed) 37th - #93 Kvapil (28th in Owner's Points) 38th - #83 Cassill (32nd in Owner's Points) 39th - #32 Schrader (34th in Owner's Points) 40th - #36 Blaney (35th in Owner's Points) 41st - #33 Leicht (37th in Owner's Points) 42nd - #30 Stremme (38th in Owner's Points) 43rd - #98 McDowell (39th in Owner's Points) DNQ - #87 Nemechek (42nd in Owner's Points) DNQ - #91 Sorenson (51st in Owner's Points) DNQ - #79 Bires (52nd in Owner's Points) So to recap, under the 2013 system, Steven Leicht and the #33 Circle Sport team as well as David Stremme and the #30 Inception Motorsports team would have made the race while Joe Nemechek and the #87 NEMCO Motorsports team as well as Reed Sorenson and the #91 Humphrey Smith Racing team would not have. 51. Jim Davis posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What happened to Johanna?" The shifter fell off. "I am flipping back and forth between the race and the game between Clemson (my Dad's team) and dook (my arch nemesis)." Did you miss the nice feature on Long during the per game? 52. Schroeder51 posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenny, your spelling saddens me. 53. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dont start with me and that shit don't like what I type then don't freaking read it its as simple as that 54. Schroeder51 posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What are you going to do to me? 55. Mr X posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 15 as of MS-Race #33 without Chase Driver-Points Total-Bonus Points-(Difference) 1. Jimmie Johnson-37479-855-(Leader) 2. Brad Keselowski-36359-391-(-1120) 3. Greg Biffle-35189-413-(-2290) 4. Matt Kenseth-34972-368-(-2507) 5. Clint Bowyer-34967-247-(-2512) 6. Denny Hamlin-34318-646-(-3161) 7. Martin Truex Jr.-33608-252-(-3871) 8. Kasey Kahne-32921-133-(-4558) 9. Dale Earnhardt Jr.-32687-275-(-4792) 10. Tony Stewart-32025-281-(-5454) 11. Kevin Harvick-31812-128-(-5667) 12. Kyle Busch-31770-594-(-5709) 13. Jeff Gordon-31645-233-(-5834) 14. Ryan Newman-28829-9-(-8650) 15. Carl Edwards-28754-106-(-8725) Top 13 as of MS-Race #33 with Chase Driver-Points Total-Bonus Points-(Difference) 1. Jimmie Johnson-49379-259-(Leader) 2. Brad Keselowski-49210-130-(-169) 3. Clint Bowyer-48270-82-(-1109) 4. Kasey Kahne-48157-13-(-1222) 5. Denny Hamlin-47585-149-(-1794) 6. Kyle Busch-47441-161-(-1938) 7. Matt Kenseth-47098-82-(-2281) 8. Martin Truex Jr.-47056-0-(-2323) 9. Greg Biffle-46739-51-(-2640) 10. Tony Stewart-46616-24-(-2763) 11. Kevin Harvick-46111-11-(-3268) 12. Dale Earnhardt Jr.-44520-16-(-4859) 13. Jeff Gordon-31645-233-(-17734) Keep in mind that under this system Jeff missed the chase and Kyle made it in. All of the bonus points you see under the chase standings are after the seven chase races, with the exception of Jeff Gordon. If Jeff made the chase as the 2nd Wild Card in 12th he would be sitting 6th in points currently with 47472-44-(-1907). If Kyle missed the chase he would be sitting 13th with 31770-594-(-17609). 56. murb posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What Schroeder said. It's hard to take your opinion seriously if you can't even put it together correctly. CJS is right, it is pretty lowball to wish that upon someone. I don't want to see Jimmie win the championship either. But I also don't want to see him crash out and potentially be injured, nor do I want to see his crew guys have to spend their time manually fixing his car. NNS race looks to be a snoozefest. I watched the first 20 laps, took a shower, came back, and evidently nothing has happened other than a bad break for Johanna and some good runs for Danica and Cole Whitt. 57. Schroeder51 posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WOW. That's all you have to say? Your whole attitude comes off as rather unpleasant to me. You seem to have the intelligence of a typical NASCAR.com commentator. You seem to perfectly okay with possibility of someone crashing and getting hurt as long as it keeps them from winning the championship. Would you REALLY wish harm on someone like that? Plus it is hard to take your opinion seriously no matter how you try to defend yourself if you can't spell at least somewhat properly or type it properly. But go ahead and feel free to spend your time cursing me out and calling me every name under the sun. I've no time for petty Internet arguments like this as I have better things to do with my life. 58. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) People do you all thank I'm the only one who wants jemmie to crash? Hell if he did crash tomorrow I swear to god that the fans would be chearing to the point it would sound like jr had just won I'm not the only one who says this and I know you all know that where all smart people hear :) 59. Schroeder51 posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's official...Kenny is your stereotypical, casual NASCAR fan. The exact kind of fan I dislike. 60. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They featured Johanna in the pre race? Crap. I'll have to find it on YouTube. Proud of her. Hage that about the shifter, low budget blues. Give her a good car. As for JJ, I can definitely relate to the frustration of knowing he is gonna win it again in the 48 team's trademark machine-like fashion which just bores the crap of you while making you feel bad that a team with so many blatent cheating violations is getting all the success. Especially this year with my favorite driver surprisingly close, knowing there is simply no match for The Emotionless Juggernaut, still hoping against hope they can somehow pull it off, allowing myself to hope and dream and wish, knowing I will most likely wind up heartbroken. But we can't wish harm upon them. They are the perfect machine for this era of emotionally unstable drivers and crews. They are conditioned to have no emotion which has driven fans away in droves (along with NASCAR's overzealous overexpansion that has defined the Brian France era which has produced dire long term consequences). And if NASCAR isn't gonna get serious about serial cheaters like Chad, and Chad and the 48 guys can look themselves in the mirror, then that is their deal. We can't place all the blame for the horrible NASCAR malaise on their shoulders, NASCAR has allowed it to happen, and they have taken advantage. It is tough. I recognize that, and with Brad so tantilizingly close, and my stubborn refusal to put my guard up and accept anything less than a Blue Deuce championship, it is VERY tough. I was at Martinsville last week, and I could not get out of the track fast enough. I just made a mad, disgusted, steaming, dejected walk back to Dad's truck afterwards, so mad I had to watch them win yet again (if there is a ray of hope in these last 3 races it is that the 48's personal good luck charm, me, will not be in attendance in any of them). But we have to be fair. Even if the 48 team is not fair, and they are not, we can't stoop to their level. Boo them, be happy when they don't win, let them know how much life they have sucked out of NASCAR, yell "cheaters" at the top of your lungs, but don't wish harm. Be fair, be better than the 48 guys. Brad has, and I have never been prouder of him. 61. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is a reason i don't post much on here anymore, because of people like Kenny and few others who names shall not be named. BTW DSFF, you and i are "nuts" for thinking that Chad Knaus holds Jimmie Johnsons legecy back. Yep, we are nuts. :-P Dispite that you and i (and many others) give them full credit for what they have done. 62. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51 as you said let's not fight online it's all bs and I've been watching NASCAR seance 1998 and I'm a jr fan(have been seance he drove the ACDelco car for his dad) 63. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn this race sucks. I got tired of listening to D.J. and Marty stumble over every other word so I muted the tv and turned on PRN radio, which isn't as good as MRN because all the announcers are "homers" for the sport and for SMI tracks, but they're better than nothing. BSPN's cameras are way too close to the cars. I feel like I'm watching commercials with how close they come to the big money sponsored cars. They might call the video on the screen "moving pictures", but it shouldn't literally be moving pictures. There are 43 cars in this race, right? All I see are the #33, #54, #7, #6, and #2 cars. How inspiring. It makes me really want to go see a race. The grandstands in turns 3 and 4 have about 200 people in the seats. Damn, it seems like every time Johanna Long gets a lot of tv coverage, she falls out of the race. Maybe they should go back to ignoring her like they did the first 1/3 of the season. Nice runs for Kevin Swindell, Jeremy Clements, and Scott Riggs. It doesn't make up for the bad race, but it's something. You know how you can tell if a track has no identity? Because this is a night race, I keep thinking they're at Charlotte because of how much of a clone this track is to that track. I like this race last year because at least it was in the day and the track conditions were unpredictable with the sun, but now it's basically the same track from start to finish. There are too many night races on the schedule. 64. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And as soon as I praise Scott Riggs for having a top 20 run, he's now in 29th place. Damn. 65. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where is Austin? 66. Anonymous posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I actually want Jimmie Johnson to win the title. 67. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^ And that is why you are "anonymous" :) 68. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Until Charlotte painted their walls yellow, I could NEVER tell Charlotte, Texas, or Atlanta apart, especially since they are all run at night. 69. Schroeder51 posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why'd they ever have to change Atlanta from its old configuration anyways? I liked that one a lot better than the typical cookie cutter layout it has nowadays... 70. Schroeder51 posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fine, I can bury the hatchet, Kenny. Just saying if you post stuff like that, it tends not to go over very well here. 71. murb posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unfortunately, the Cup race probably isn't going to be much better. I'm expecting one of the worst of the year. Jimmie will probably run off with it and the championship, thus making the last two races of this year also snoozefests. Fortunately, they've got a new car coming in next year, so hopefully it will neutralize things and create some better racing. 72. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can someone tell me please where AD is running? Btw to all who complain about my spelling I'm on my iPod so it's gonna be crappy if I was on my computure It would be better 73. murb posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch racing a 33 OneMain Financial car at Texas. Imagine that. 74. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Until Charlotte painted their walls yellow, I could NEVER tell Charlotte, Texas, or Atlanta apart, especially since they are all run at night." And that is exactly why we refer to those tracks, along with Chicago, Kansas before the repave, and Kentucky, as cookie-cutters. The NASCAR media tries to throw us off by saying that each track has character, but I say that if they all look alike, they're all pretty much the same, and that makes them cookie-cutters. It's not because they're all 1.5-mile tracks. Both Bristol and Martinsville are 1/2 mile tracks, but nobody will ever confuse those tracks from each other because they look completely different. 75. murb posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you're looking for Austin Dillon, he's the one that just almost wrecked Michael Annett, Brian Scott, and Kevin Swindell in the span of five laps. 76. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AD is in 11th at this time 77. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come on Blaney! 78. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go Blaney Go!! 79. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope he gets a top 10 What's everyone's take on him using the 3 in cup?(DSFF I know you got something to say about this) 80. murb posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad to see that one over. Congrats to Harv, great job by Blaney. I really, really, really am ready for this season to be over with. 81. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah well, second is still impressive. Also great run for Kevin Swindell. 82. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did Austin get a top 10? 83. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Diva gets into it with another N'wide regular, he needs to just stay out this series and stick to cup where he belongs. 84. loomer posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone see that Hamlin interview? That was pure gold, and right on target regarding Dillon. 85. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know what the deal is between Denny and Austin, but Denny's interview made me laugh in agreement. Saying things like "he's only here because of his name" and "maybe he should get his little ass over [to the shop] and fix his cars" (or something like that, I don't remember the exact quote). I don't normally agree with Denny, but that one I agree with. If you hit a guy following the checkered flag, you can't bitch if they hit you back. 86. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy crap I actually agreed with a JGR Diva. 87. loomer posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ESPN makes a fool of themselves once again by not interviewing Blaney. 88. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF, how are you enjoying this ass-kicking Clemson is giving Dook? Boy it feels good leading 56-20 haha. 89. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BSPN messed up a lot in their post-race coverage. They only interviewed two people, the winner and a Cup driver who had a post-race run-in with a nepotistic driver. Don't worry, there will be some post-race interviews uploaded to both NASCAR.com and their YouTube page. That's how I found Scott Riggs' interview following the Truck race last week. 90. Dave #38 Fan posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i guess finishing second isn't good enough to be interviewed if you're not a cup driver. screw you, espn. 91. 10andJoe posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Blaney has got to be the #1 blue chip stock in racing right now. Penske is sitting on a gold mine. 92. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh. Austin vs Denny is the next "I can't stand either of these guys" feuds. Denny may have been right, and he is certainly right about him getting the ride for his name, but his interview came off as amateurish, bush league. Why is a perennial Cup championship contender stooping to the level of a minor league silver spoon driver in a minor league race? No winners, only a couple of losers, another big reason for the NASCAR interest swoon. In a year like 2010, JJ and The Emotionless Juggernaut were a benign alternative as champs when compared to Denny. 93. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's going on with Denny and Austin? 94. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good point DSFF, though I do rank this "feud" higher than the Kyle Busch/Kevin Harvick feud because at least Denny has a reason to be mad and is a generally clean driver, therefore adding some measure of likability towards him. Yes, this isn't something that a Cup title contender should be worrying about, but I think they could have waited a little longer to interview him. They started the interview when he was still fired up, and I think ESPN shares some of the blame with this. You can't blame a guy for being upset after a race, even if it isn't a race they should be worried about. 95. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I enjoy any game that involves dook getting their ass whipped. Although I am a UNC fan, Clemson is also a team I pull for cause they are Dad's team (he was born and raised about 20 minutes from the campus). Kenny, about Austin driving the #3 in Cup, I will answer your question as soon as I am through throwing up at the mere thought of that :) Yes it is a pile of shit that Ryan Blaney wasn't interviewed by BSPN. But don't worry, he will get many interviews in the future cause they always interview the winner. 96. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @DSFF thanks XD why all the hate on Austin thou I like him(have seance his first truck start at Iowa in 2009)he's my pick for NNS champion next year :) Also DSFF do you have a AIM or YIM I'd like to talk to you more 97. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know what I just realized? Ryan Blaney finished 2nd in his first Nationwide race at Texas, which was also came a day after his first race at the track, and already he has tied Brad's best Texas finish in six Nationwide starts (Brad skipped both races this year). Considering how Brad has stated that this is his worst track, it looks like Blaney has Brad beat in two categories (the other being Truck win total). For a young 18-year old driver driving for a team that has struggled all year in the Nationwide Series (which means that they're putting extra effort to their Cup program) and to finish 2nd at one of the fastest tracks on the circuit, is truly remarkable. If Blaney wins a Nationwide race either this year or next, I would put it higher than Logano's win at age 18 because Blaney isn't in the best equipment. 98. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And btw, your NWide points leader? Swervin Stenhouse. How will he handle the next two weeks? Will he win both races or crash out spectacularly in both of them? Who knows! We gotta watch. He will, at the very least, come very close to wrecking many times. Will be fun to watch. Don't care for his attitude half the time (though miles ahead of the clown Austin Dillon), but he is fun as hell to watch. 99. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Austin Dillon is like Davey Allison without the charisma and genuine down-to-earth personality and likability. That's just my take. 100. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only time I found Austin Dillon likable was in victory lane following his 2nd win at Kentucky. He actually looked really thankful (probably because he proved he could win a Nationwide race without cheating) and humble during his interview. He's one of those guys that I want to like (especially since he's going to be around for a while), but he does too many things that annoy me that makes me not like him. It doesn't help that the announcers love him and gloat about him constantly. As DSFF would say, pass me the vomit bucket. 101. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol damn is he still 3ed in points? 102. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok Paul, but make it quick, I ain't through puking yet :) Kenny, my YouTube account is CarolinaFanJase, you can send me a message there, I don't have AIM or YIM. 103. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I still think it was a mistake having Ricky run the full Nationwide schedule in a single car team and have Trevor run a part-time schedule for the Wood Brothers. Trevor has shown to have maturity both on and off the track while with the Wood's last year, while Ricky has lacked that his whole career (though I will admit he is entertaining to watch). Ricky showed last year that he could win a championship with two teammates at his disposal and against a very underwhelming Nationwide field, but this year he's done everything except literally shoot himself in the foot to throw this Nationwide championship away, and still comes off as a brat when he screws up. If he would have been surrounded by the Wood's this past season, he would have matured far better with that team than he has in Roush's "every man for himself" type of environment. Plus, I think Trevor is way ahead in the Nationwide points because he wouldn't have the bad finishes that Ricky has. 104. murb posted: 11.03.2012 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree 100% Paul. What I don't understand is why Roush didn't swap their schedules for this year. Ricky already had an NNS championship under his belt, so why not move him up with the Wood Brothers to develop him into a good Cup driver while at the same time allow Trevor to race full time for an NNS championship? Obviously, they are finally letting Trevor run full time next year, which is good. But instead of Stenhouse methodically easing his way into Cup by running a solid 15-20 race schedule (which he needs, IMO), they are just throwing him up full time next year. I just think everyone would have been much better off if they had swapped Ricky and Trevor's schedules this year. 105. Kenny posted: 11.03.2012 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like trever :) 106. cjs3872 posted: 11.03.2012 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I've said Paul, if I didn't know better, I'd swear that you and I share the same brain at times, because that's my very opinion about Stenhouse. He's the fastest driver in the series, but may also be the most immature champion in recent NASCAR history, because he never admits his mistakes when he makes them (it took him nearly three months to admit what we all know about his goof-ups on pit road in one race). This is why I've constantly said that Roush should have elevated Bayne to the Cup series, even though he doesn't have the Nationwide experience that Stenhouse has (which may not be a bad thing, given the record of guys who did great in the Nationwide Series over the years in Cup), because Bayne, much like the driver Stenhouse is battling for the Nationwide Series title, Elliott Sadler, was mentored in NASCAR by the Wood Brothers, and is much more mature because of it. Bayne may only win a race or two next year, but is not going to throw away points like Stenhouse has this year. Remember that when he was forced out of the car last year due to his illness, he and Stenhouse were virtually tied in points, though they got there in diametrically different ways. Stenhouse charged, trying to get up front and lead every lap, while Bayne just rode in fifth through eighth place while not taking any chances, and after the Nashvlle race, both were virtually tied in points entering Richmond, when Bayne was taken to the Mayo Clinic with his illness. But I still think there may be something bigger going on here. I still think that Roush considers Bayne to be the true heir to Mark Martin in Roush's flagship #6 Cup car, which is why he's apparently giving Stenhouse the #17 next year, even though he's been running the #6 in the Nationwide Series since he got there. I think Roush believes that it's Bayne, and not Stenhouse that has the very qualities that Mark Martin displayed in that #6 car for 19 years, which is why he's probably not going to give Stenhouse the very number with which he's run in the Nationwide Series with, and if that's true, that's very telling to me. It would just be cool that, if Bayne continues to have trouble finding sponsorship, and there's been no word on whether any sponsor has been found for him next year, that Roush would run the classic Wood Brothers paint scheme that he ran in the Truck Series when Jon Wood drove for him, and that Dennis Setzer once drove in a Truck Series race at Daytona, nearly winning with it, and that Bayne has been driving a paint scheme derived from for the last couple of years, winning last year's Daytona 500 with it. It would be neat to see that throwback paint scheme if Bayne can't find sponsorship and Roush continues to field that team. Remember that James Finch has run a paint scheme derived from that off-and-on for years, mainly to honor Neil Bonnett, and continues to do so when he's not sponsored, and that Warner Hodgdon took that scheme to RahMoc in 1983 and Junior Johnson in 1984 (with both cars) when the Wood Brothers signed Valvoline to sponsor them in 1983, because Hodgdon loved those colors. 107. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now that Kenseth is leaving Roush after this season, Ricky is really going to have a hard time maturing because he'll be in an environment without much leadership. Without Kenseth, his teammates are Biffle and Edwards, and neither of them are the type to mentor a younger driver. Roush really missed the boat by having Ricky run for the Nationwide title even though he didn't need to, and now he's missed a great opportunity to be mentored into a mature driver a year before going full-time in Cup. Trevor didn't need another year of mentoring, but Ricky did and he may suffer next year because of it. Speaking of mentoring, I'm very surprised at how little Austin Dillon has matured this season having a guy like Elliott Sadler as a teammate. For a younger driver, having a veteran with as much racing experience and skill as Sadler for a teammate should only help you mature as a driver, but for whatever reason, Austin hasn't really improved in that area all year. I don't know if it's because he isn't around Sadler enough and missed out on a great opportunity, or maybe because dad and "pop-pop" (I hate that nickname with a passion) were in his ear too much and he only listened to them, but I'm really disappointed in how little he has matured this season. Maybe he's been hanging around Kevin Harvick too much, as we saw how he acted at Bristol and tonight that he isn't very mature when having to deal with other drivers face-to-face. At Bristol, Trevor Bayne got right in his face after Austin was driving like an idiot all race, and Austin had this smile on his face that showed his insecurity (why else you would smile while being yelled at is beyond me). Then tonight, he messed with the bull and got the horns when he tried to wreck Denny on pit road and got the wall for his trouble. Then for him to walk away and let his crew talk to Denny makes him look like the biggest wimp in the garage. If you have a problem with someone, go up and tell them yourself. Heck, even Joey Logano can say he's done that, and he is FAR from being considered a mature driver. It's stuff like that that makes me dislike Austin, and I feel like next year will be more of the same since he won't have a mature teammate to learn from. 108. Paul posted: 11.03.2012 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also cjs, Mark Martin struggled to get into Cup when he first came to NASCAR too. Mark made his Cup debut in '81, struggled the next year in '82, then went back to running in lower divisions (ASA and Busch) for a few years before finally having a good opportunity in '88. By then, Mark had really matured as a driver and went on to have a great career in NASCAR's highest division. Trevor's NASCAR career looks kind of similar to Mark's, and his maturity and attitude at such a young age is quite reminiscent of how Mark has behaved throughout his whole career. Trevor may be one of the classiest and mature driver on the circuit today, both among young drivers and veterans alike. I feel like it was a waste having Trevor sit on the sidelines all year while Ricky does everything he can to lose the Nationwide championship with the fastest car in the series. Trevor isn't the type of driver who will win 5 or 6 races a year, but he is the type of driver who could finish in the top 10 every week and win a championship by letting his competition beat themselves. He is this generation's Terry Labonte in terms of his on- and off-track attitude. He isn't going to win a championship by being the most dominant driver, but he isn't going to lose a championship by doing something stupid either. It probably won't win a Cup championship (especially with the points reset for the Chase), but he will be a contender for a full season championship, such as the Nationwide Series championship. 109. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.03.2012 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree 100% about what you guys are saying about Ricky and Trevor. I know I gush over Ricky like I am a big fan sometimes, but that is only because every lap he makes me sit up and watch cause he might a) make a spectacular pass b) fail spectacularly trying to make a spectacular pass c) fail spectacularly running all alone or d) lose the car and make a spectacular save. Lots of "spectaculars" there huh? But his attitude grates on me. Not as much as some people, but it is still grating at times. "Speaking of mentoring, I'm very surprised at how little Austin Dillon has matured this season having a guy like Elliott Sadler as a teammate." I put the blame there on "Pop-Pop". He needs to reign him in. But settling Austin's ego down will mean Richard would have to settle his own ego down. The first time Austin told him, when wanting to run the #3 that "That is YOUR number Pop-Pop" he should have set the record straight right there. He should have said "Look, although I had that number as an independent driver, performing admirably with what I had, and Dale was in the #3 car cause I owned it, Dale made it legendary by doing things with that car nobody else in NASCAR history could do. There is no way our equipment should have won 6 championships, but Dale was a once in a generation driver. Not only was he transcendent behind the wheel, but he remained true to himself despite his rising fortune and always had the hearts of the blue collar fan that dominated the NASCAR grandstands. Then the fact that he was so good and so beloved, and then died in that car with that number on the biggest stage left a loose end that can never be tied properly. So lets just leave it be. It will be a long long time before that number can be used again without causing most fans to groan at the very least". But for that to happen Richard would have to admit what he never wants to: although he was the perfect owner for Dale in his era, he was the perfect owner cause he built cars with reliability over speed and basically let Dale be Dale Earnhardt. He also needs to let Austin know that he is very lucky to be where he is at. That he is basically the anti-Dale. Silver spoon background, looks goofy instead of BAD-ASS in a cowboy hat, not good enough to go fast without screwing up (never even tries), completely uninspiring on and off the track, etc. Basically as the years pass and pass, and RCR keeps being less and less inspiring and successful, we realize just how much Dale meant to those RCR teams in his time. Hell, his win totals and points finishes in the years when he was injured and in his late 40s ('97-'99) are better than the majority of modern RCR seasons with a multi car system done correctly and drivers in their prime like Harvick and Bowyer before this year (who left RCR and promptly is having a career year). 110. cjs3872 posted: 11.03.2012 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What you forgot about Mark's early Cup career was that he proved capable of running competitively when he drove for Jim Stacy, finishing fourth at Darlington's spring race in Stacy's #2 car, and in the top ten in the 1983 Daytona 500 when he crashed. But what you said may be another reason why Roush views Bayne as the true heir apparent to Mark Martin, with apologies to David Ragan, who drove that car for five years. Of course, Bayne has a victory that neither Martin or either of the Labonte brothers have, and that's one at Daytona, and the big one there to boot, and Martin was one of those he had to beat after inheriting the lead. But the fact that he never flinched all day when even the top drivers were having trouble keeping it straight and making other errors showed an innate ability to handle pressure at the highest level. I just hope that being around the other drivers at Roush's organization doesn't start to rub off on him. But if his run at Michael Waltrip Racing is any indication, one thing Trevor has is speed, as he won three successive poles with MWR in one stretch, so Trevor may not win a lot of races with aggressive driving, but he may win a few more than I anticipate him winning, just with sheer speed, and if he has the fastest car, he may just win by outrunning everyone else among the full-time Nationwide set. 111. cjs3872 posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, to add to what you say about RCR's performance dropping off, there was the bombshell that Earnhardt-Ganassi Racing announced this week that they'd be switching to Hendrick engines next year. Remember that EGR helped develop the Earnhardt-Childress engine shop that EGR and RCR have been running inrecent seasons, and now EGR is switching to Hendrick engines next year. If one of the two parties involved with the development of the ECR engines is bailing and switching to their main competition, that says a lot about the ECR engines and their relative lack of horsepower, doesn't it? We all know that Chip Ganassi has never met a change he didn't like, but this one seemingly came from nowhere and may leave RCR high and dry on their engines and engine development. 112. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can you blame EGR? RCR's stuff is 2nd tier just like it has always been, only Dale could push it to a higher level (the highest level no less). Speaking of outperforming your equipment, June finally came right out and said it when asked about Brad: "I knew he was a pretty raw talent and had a lot of good qualities," Earnhardt said of Keselowski. "He definitely made all of our stuff at JR Motorsports look really good there for a couple of years." Translation: our management sucks which brings our equipment down, but Brad was able to lift us up with his ability. 113. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't say I'm surprised that "Pop-Pop" has an ego. I could never understand why they always interviewed Childress after one of Dale's many wins instead of his crew chiefs Kirk Shelmerdine, Andy Petree, Larry McReynolds for his Daytona 500 win, or Kevin Hamlin, but perhaps that's because of Childress' ego wanting to gain credit for Dale's work. The fact that Dale earned 3/4 of RCR's total victories speaks very highly for how much Dale meant to that team. Heck, as great as he is/was, Jeff Gordon has only won 42% of HMS's career victories. That speaks greatly for HMS as a whole team because a.) their greatest driver (yes I'm sticking by my guns by saying Jeff is greater than Jimmie) couldn't even win 1/2 of their total victories, let alone 3/4, and b.) that HMS could be the dominant team with three different drivers winning championships (and maybe four if Kasey Kahne continues to progress in the coming years). The difference between HMS and RCR is that HMS is a great team led by great drivers, while RCR is an above average team that looks far greater historically because they were carried by one of the all-time greatest in any discipline of racing. No one will ever say "Jeff Gordon/Jimmie Johnson was/is Hendrick Motorsports", but I think it's pretty obvious that Dale Earnhardt was Richard Childress Racing because they have proven to be a fairly incompetent team without him leading the way. I think having EGR basically bail out on their engine alliance speaks loudly for the state of RCR/ECR and how things are being run. If Chip Ganassi, an owner who has dealt with mediocrity throughout his tenure as a NASCAR owner, gives up on you, what does that say about your organization? It means that RCR is in the same category as the like of David Stremme, Reed Sorenson, and Casey Mears, as each of them have been dumped by a Ganassi-owned team. 114. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you might say that Brad WAS JR Motorsports. Hopefully Regan Smith can provide that team a pulse next season as they've been treading water in that 8th-14th place region for three years now. 115. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I just saw your YouTube video where you put that letter from Mitt Romney through a paper shredder. Well played, sir. 116. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well put Paul. Kirk never got the credit he deserved for what he did for that team. Of course he never wanted any. And HMS is a conglomeration of a lot of great drivers doing great things in great equipment (Jeff, Jimmie, Terry, Darrell, Geoff, soon to be Kasey). They all deserve individual credit no doubt. But like you said, none of them are pretty much HMS' entire highlight reel like Dale is to Richard. As for the shredder thing, I hate all politicians. I never got the letter from Obama to shred. Ready for Tuesday to come and go so I don't have to watch these dumb political ads anymore. 117. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^ And that is why you are "anonymous" :)" By choice, Paul, as a result of my place here in relation to the regulars/general NASCAR fans. But that doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm not part of the main NASCAR target audience, so my thoughts and opinions are very, very different to those of the majority. Unfortunately, not everybody seems to be able to understand that the circumstances don't make my opinion any less valid. So rather than having my input continually spiral into conflict, I prefer to do things like this. 118. cjs3872 posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF Paul, you both forgot to mention Tim Richmond in that list of top-tier drivers that Hendrick had. There are those that say that, as great as Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson have undoubtedly been, that Tim Richmond may have been the greatest driver Rick Henrdick ever had. In fact, Richmond's 1986 is still the greatest single season for any driver in his first year with his team in the last 30 years. Unfortunately, it was also his only full season with Hendrick Motorsports. And DSFF, one reason why CBS never interviewed Larry McReynolds after Dale Earnhardt's 1998 Daytona 500 win was that he had won that race before (with Davey Allison in 1992), but neither Dale or Richard had ever won it before. (McReynolds was also never interviewed after Davey's win in that race, but that was due to time constraints, as they had to leave to join Olympic coverage.) But actually, crew chiefs are not interviewed very often after their driver wins a race, so that's not that unusual. Heck, even the Wood Brothers were never interviewed by FOX after Trevor Bayne won last year's Daytona 500. Neither Glen or Leonard Wood were ever interviewed by FOX after that historic "turn back the clock" win, so sometimes not even the car owners are interviewed, so car owners and crew chiefs are rarely interviewed after wins these days, unless it's someone like Chad Knaus. And Jimmy Fennig was not interviewed after this year's Daytona 500, so not even the winning crew chief of the Daytona 500 gets interviewed these days. 119. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I truly believe that if circumstances were different, both Geoff Bodine and Darrell Waltrip could have won championships for HMS, especially if the team was as good as it is now. What Geoff did at the start-up team in the '80s is still pretty remarkable. It wasn't quite as good as what Earnhardt did with a green Rod Osterlund team in '79 and '80, but I still think that Geoff got the most out of that HMS equipment in the mid-'80s. Then Darrell Waltrip comes along and has one great season in '89 in his midst of an otherwise average run at HMS. Then of course the year after he leaves to run his own team, they finish 2nd in the points with Ricky Rudd. Had D.W. stayed with HMS for one more season, I think he wins that championship because Waltrip was one of the best on not beating himself, and that's exactly why HMS lost the '91 championship. (Btw, how cool would it have been to see Earnhardt and Waltrip, the two drivers who dominated the '80s, do battle for the championship?I think Waltrip's presence alone would have made the #3 team step up their game and would have made the championship battle not only good, but legendary.) 120. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I forgot to mention Tim Richmond in my last post. Well I've always considered Tim to be the greatest forgotten driver of all-time, so it's only natural that I would forget to list him. I'll just say this: If the guy could finish 3rd in the points in his only year with a top team, and then in the midst of battling HIV/AIDS wins two races the following season, there's no telling what he could have accomplished. If he could win twice while only running 8 races in '87, imagine what he could have done if he hadn't developed the virus and been able to run the full schedule. At the very least, I think Dale would have someone to watch for in his rear view mirror during his dominant '87 season. 121. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, pass the vomit boat; I look better in a cowboy hat Hamlin and Harvick need to be in KNPE based on maturity. Running NNS races still? Why, are you talentless hacks? Oh, right... 122. Spen posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous: Kit, is that you? 123. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, it's worse. I think it's WillyOnWheels back from hell. 124. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I could only imagine what would happen if DSFF got a letter from Brian France. 125. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of Football Superbowl V might be footballs version of the 1991 Winston Cup Point Championship Battle in that nobody wanted to win the dang thing. 126. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lets hope Keselowski's championship chances don't sail wide right the same way The Buffalo Bills and Scott Norwood did in Superbowl XXV. 127. cjs3872 posted: 11.04.2012 - 10:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, Darrell Waltrip was, by 1991, long past the time that he could contend for a championship. And remember that at that time, having three cars was considered too many for one team to have because the amount of resources were just not enough to run three cars successfully. So Waltrip's decision to leave and form his own team, wich at the time was no different from Stewart-Haas, in terms of being a Hendrick satellite team, actually relieved pressure from Hendrick Motorsports. In other words, Waltrip's departure was actually beneficial to HMS in 1991, and it showed with three victories when they never won more than once in any of the other seasons Ricky Rudd drove there. That's why I say that the single biggest factor in Hendrick resurgence in the mid-90s may have been the arrival of Terry Labonte in 1994, because they won five times that year and the one driver that didn't win, Schrader, posted his best ever points finish of fourth. Remember that Hendrick won nine races in 1986 with two cars, but when they expanded to three cars in 1987 (and four in races that Tim Richmond drove in), HMS only won seven times in the next two years put together, twice with Richmond, three times with Darrell Waltrip, and once with Ken Schrader and Geoff Bodine. Saying that, the car Benny Parsons drove in 1987 (which was Tim Richmond's team in 1986) was Hendrick's best car that season and only bad luck kept him from winning once or twice, he finished second three times in 1987, including twice in the first four races of that season. 128. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 10:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I sound like Terry Labonte and I drive like Big E? I love it. I didn't spin the guy at 1:28 he , like most people I face ,can't keep it together on a slick track like the Shamrock,and just for brags I have a record of 17 wins in my last 25 races including 5 straight wins in my last 5. 129. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I got a letter from Brian France, I would write down the return address and mail him an envelope with a piece of my shit in it. Yeah, I can't believe left out Tim. And yes, 10 years earlier or 10 years later, then Bodine, Richmond, Darrell, and Rudd definitely win Cup championships (Bodine '84, Richmond '86, Darrell '89, and Rudd '91) for an organization like HMS. They just happened to peak for HMSS during NASCAR's most stacked era. And I know those seasons don't necessarily jump out as championship seasons, but against a weaker field, Bodine doesn't have as many mechanical issues (and not with a start up team), Tim is taught consistency before the midway point of the season, Darrell doesn't fade throwing hail marys at the end of the season while two first ballot HOFers fight for the title (Dale and Rusty), and Rudd and his team don't forget how to run a damn race in the end. Am I the only one here who kinda misses Willy on Wheels? He was entertaining in his own special way. 130. startandparkfan posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I saw earlier that you people were talking 'bout die-casts. I have one I am proud of, a 1/24 Scale 2010 Casey Mears #90 SmellMyCar.com Keyed Up Motorsports Chevy. Rare, I think. Sure to be a boring race. I almost fell asleep during the nationwide, until I heard Ryan Blaney is in 2nd! But another cup guy stole the show. On jayski, Bruton Smith was talking about how to improve races. How 'bout this, get rid of his boooring old texas! But, this one may be interesting, with Bayne up in the top 10 in qual. Disappointing, Kelly Bires and David Stremme didn't make it in! YES! Kimi Raikkonen finally gets it done! Haha did you catch Vettel's podium interview! Ok, that is all. Best of luck to new york and new jersey, Sad to see the places I vacation to destroyed. Finally, my school is back open tomorrow. Anyone here hit hard by sandy? 131. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Will Bruton Smith ever stop saying stupid stuff? 132. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 12:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18Fan, the answer is yes, Bruton is 89 years old so he should die soon. Then we won't have to hear his dumbass mouth anymore. 133. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of Tim Richmond, nice to see the Washington Redskins paying tribute to him with their burgandy uniforms with gold numbers in honor of his years in that beautiful Old Milwuakee car. And speaking of diecasts, when are they gonna make that #27 Old Milwuakee Pontiac diecast? One of my favorite paintschemes ever. They made his '82 #2 JD Stacy car diecast, now we need the Old Milwuakee car. 134. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Ouch! Unfortunately, he'll never admit that his track management and creativity sucks, and that may be the only way he won't say such outlandish things. I wasn't a poster when Kit and Willy on Wheels were on here, but when I was going through past races from '08-'10, I remember seeing their names a lot. Just curious, about when did they stop posting? I found them both to be...unique, to say the least. I'm glad you're okay startandparkfan. I was wondering your whereabouts because you're from New York and you haven't posted in a while, but it's good to see you weren't seriously hurt by Sandy. JG24, so basically, you intimidated that guy out of the way ;) 135. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anybody besides me absolutely LOVE the NASCAR Classics line at NASCAR.com's Superstore? 136. Matt L posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Time to guess the Parkers. Who will make Eddie Gossage mad today? 36 - 26 Wise Vibration 37 - 95 Speed Electrical 38 - 87 Nemechek Brakes 39 - 98 McDowell Engine 40 - 19 Bliss Overheating 41 - 36 Blaney Vibration 42 - 91 Sorenson Handling 43 - 37 Yeley Delicious Pasta Dinner 137. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bruton Smith is the Jerry Jones of NASCAR. Both are egomaniac owners who say outlandish things and don't know when to shut up. Plus, they've each damaged the credibility of some of the most well-known venues in their respective sports, as Bruton has ruined Bristol, Charlotte, and Las Vegas much the same way that Jerry has ruined the Dallas Cowboys. The Cowboys used to have a homefield advantage at Texas Stadium, but now at the new large shopping mall/suite with a football field, they have a 14-13 record at home. The one thing that made the Cowboys great is now gone, and it's because Jerry wanted to build the most expensive stadium in history at the expense of his team. 138. Mr X posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did anyone watch the F1 race? I haven't been able to catch it yet, all I know is Kimi Raikkonen won, which I am extremely stoked about. 139. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The F1 race was pretty exciting, especially for Abu Dhabi. There was some bad driving, though. 140. Sean posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson is the prospect that impresses me the most (given his ability to seamlessly hop from USAC to NASCAR and back without missing a beat, and considering how long it took even Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart to figure it out in NASCAR, albeit in higher series than K&N East) but Ryan Blaney is close. Both impress me more than either Dillon. Tim Richmond is hardly forgotten. Same goes for Davey Allison and Alan Kulwicki. The guys who seem to be forgotten are their contemporaries who died when NOT in their prime (Neil Bonnett) or simply struggled at the end of their careers to the point newer fans forgot about their initial accomplishments (Geoff Bodine, Ernie Irvan, Ricky Rudd, even Harry Gant to a degree). EVERY new fan is reminded of Richmond, Allison, and Kulwicki's accomplishments all over the Internet...so I tend to hype the other non-champions more. NicoRosbergFan, if you can't see Denny Hamlin's talent I don't know what to tell you. I can't stand him either but with Darian Grubb he is 100% a future champion regardless of how "weak he is emotionally" (something that I think is talked about FAR too much around here, and I don't think a TRULY weak driver would boldly call his win at Loudon from 32nd Joe Namath-style and TAKE THE LEAD IN LESS THAN 100 LAPS - best car, sure, but how many times do we see somebody drive through the field like that there even WITH the best car? It's difficult to pass there. I also don't think a TRULY weak driver would speed through the pits at Martinsville twice and drive from the back to the front twice...Kyle Busch would just give up after either speeding penalty probably). I'm somebody who definitely doesn't think Carl Edwards or Kevin Harvick will ever win a championship, but Hamlin will. I'm not looking forward to it. Hamlin is a jerk, no question (and I'll actually take Kyle over him or most of his prima donna peers because he is at least more honest) and he should be penalized for that crap last night. But he is a TALENTED jerk as evidenced by how he is ALWAYS a threat on the short tracks (even in seasons when he didn't have good stuff on the cookie cutters, which he now always will with Grubb). Harvick, whom I thought was a future champion in 2006 but no longer do, is hard to defend and the most overrated driver of his generation (because he's rated higher by most fans than Junior). Yes, I wish the current generation of drivers was more likable (honestly, Biffle and Bowyer were the only chase drivers this year I like with no reservations), but I also wouldn't want to banish the talented drivers I don't like to K&N East. I think we're seeing something similar in NASCAR now to what we saw in CART in the early-mid '90s. No, I don't expect NASCAR to split or anything, but the CART drivers of that era grew up with IndyCar racing as the center of the U.S. racing universe and hence believed because they were the IndyCar stars, they were HOT SHIT. Although Tony George caused the split and the massive egos among the owners were the other leading contributor, the massive egos among the drivers didn't help things. Michael Andretti - I believe he once expressed disgust that CART would "reduce itself" to sharing a weekend with the Craftsman Truck Series, asking what they were doing racing against those amateurs. Nowadays, if the trucks shared a weekend with IndyCar, I think it would be the truck drivers (who all grew up with NASCAR dominating the U.S. motorsports landscape) asking what they were doing racing against the INDYCAR amateurs, while the current generation of IndyCar drivers, who grew up with it second-class, did not develop the same kind of egos and are a lot more refreshing (except for Dario and Helio, the last of the old CART egos, and Marco, a less talented copy of his father, and Ed Carpenter, who only has a ride because he was Tony George's stepson although he's shown more talent than I thought he was capable of). Al Unser, Jr. - I don't need to spell out how sad his career became starting with missing Indy in '95. Jimmy Vasser - I actually liked him but saying "Who needs milk?" after the end of the inaugural U.S. 500 after he caused the 11-car pileup on the pace lap and was allowed to restart the race from the pole in a backup car is the height of chutzpah. Jacques Villeneuve - MAN, the ego. Although at least from 1994-1997 it was justified. Scott Goodyear - Continues to hype himself as one of the greats in the booth because he ALMOST WON INDY THREE TIMES, regardless of how little he did everywhere else. Essentially the open wheel Michael Waltrip. A LITTLE better, maybe, but not by much. Eddie Cheever - pretty much ditto what I said for Goodyear. Yes, he actually won Indy but that might have been the weakest field ever and besides Buddy Lazier, all the other drivers who were REAL threats to win (Tony Stewart, Greg Ray, Arie Luyendyk, Kenny Brack, etc..., etc... all encountered trouble causing him to win almost by default). Scott Sharp - despite making his name as a Trans-Am road course driver (and then leaving the IRL to return to sports car racing), he started hyping the IRL for TNN in late '90s by essentially saying "Oval racing's where it's at! We don't race on any of those pussy road courses"... I can go on and list other names (I haven't even gotten to people like Paul Tracy, Robby Gordon, and Tony Stewart yet who are breaths of fresh air in their good moments but scarier than Busch brothers in their bad moments) but see my point? Yes, IndyCar mainly lost its appeal due to the split, but I think the drivers on both sides bashing each other far too often can't have helped things. And now it seems NASCAR has a generation of drivers way too reminiscent of the CART drivers in 1995. Unfortunately, NASCAR will never split so we almost have to hope for an extended loss of popularity in order for some of these drivers' egos to come down to earth. Scott Pruett, Gil de Ferran, Buddy Lazier, and Kenny Brack stand out as drivers who ignored the split politics and not bash the other side and they should be commended. Al Unser, Jr. was the worst talking out of both sides of his mouth and bashing whichever side he wasn't competing in. However, I wouldn't bash a talented driver because of his personality. Michael Andretti, even without an Indy 500 win, was one of the best IndyCar drivers ever. I did like him once, but he's been a perpetual hypocrite (being rumored to start a NASCAR team after expressing LOATHING for NASCAR during the split?) Likewise, I wouldn't argue the Busch brothers and Denny Hamlin and Kevin Harvick should be racing in the minor leagues (actually, I'd argue that they SHOULDN'T - get the hell out of Nationwide once and for all) just because they're unlikable. Scott Goodyear and Eddie Cheever on the other hand? Yeah, they're SO easy to bash given their CART mediocrity and the fact that they utilized a series that was supposed to be for USAC talent and turned it into a series for bad CART drivers, then whined when the good CART drivers ran them off the track. While the car owners in IndyCar are still comical and almost all unlikable (except Bobby Rahal, Bryan Herta, Dale Coyne, and Sarah Fisher, probably the only ones I'd say are decent) and several car owners ran off IndyCar's CEO Randy Bernard in the perpetual soap opera of bad management that they've had since Tony Hulman's death, IndyCar racing in 2012 was way, way, way better than NASCAR this year (except for Belle Isle). NASCAR needs a Will Power or James Hinchcliffe or Josef Newgarden type BADLY (although all three have underachieved relative to my expectations for them - Power should have won all three championships, for instance). 141. Sean posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah, Alex Zanardi. That guy's recovery after his crash is practically heroic and he stayed out of the split politics as well. He was the saving grace for CART for several years... 142. Mr X posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks 18fan. 143. Eric posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, Willy on Wheels stopped posting sometime in 2011. Willy did post as Anonymous in 2011. I forgot when Kit stopped posting. 144. Sean posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "However, I wouldn't bash a talented driver because of his personality." Correction: I wouldn't try to argue a driver wasn't talented because of his personality (which I think far too many people here do). I certainly would (and did in that post) bash certain drivers' personalities. 145. Eric posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, Jacques Villeneuve was not in CART or IRL when the Split happened. Jacques left CART for F1 after the 1995 season. CART and IRL for all purposes were there own series starting in 1996. 146. Sean posted: 11.04.2012 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course I know that (and I know that he was going to Formula One in 1996 split or no split), but he is still an example of the egotistical group of younger prima donna drivers that was taking over CART in the mid-'90s and replacing the established legends who retired in the previous half decade, which was my main point. Although the split is the main reason NASCAR "won", it helped that NASCAR in the mid-'90s had a LOT of drivers who resonated with the American population while CART (after the '60s/'70s drivers' retirements) had many fewer... Now, NASCAR has far fewer resonant drivers, and um, it's not doing very well. 147. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, can ESPN get anything right? They were doing a "face-to-face" interview with Brad Keselowski and they said that Brad was trying to give Roger Penske his first NASCAR championship. Yeah I guess that 2010 Nationwide championship doesn't count. I mean seriously, you guys broadcasted every single Nationwide race that season, and you can't even get that statistic correct? Pathetic. Brad of course was great. I don't drink, but if I did, he's the kind of guy I would love to have a beer with. He's cool, he's down-to-earth, he's funny, he's got a good heart, but most importantly: He's real. And that's what I love about him. Ricky Craven said that Brad doesn't have the speed to beat Jimmie Johnson, so what he has to do it out-fox the #48 team by means of fuel mileage, pit strategy, and making solid adjustments throughout the course of the race to make the car better. All of which are things the #2 team with Brad and Paul Wolfe have done all season. If they can do that and if Jimmie makes a mistake in these next 3 races, the order of the top 2 in points could change. 148. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great post on those IndyCar guys, Sean. I too can't stand a lot of those guys. I have absolutely no respect at all for Eddie Cheever (he's a good driver and an Indy 500 winner, but I don't respect him or his personality in the least bit), and same goes for Al Unser Jr (especially in the last few years with his reckless personal behavior). I always really liked Scott Sharp. Alex Zanardi is just a legend. And I liked Jimmy Vasser too just because he and Michael were the top two Americans in CART there for a while, and I never liked Michael, so I just gravitated towards Vasser. Also, for those of you who may have missed the Johanna Long feature on last night's NNS broadcast, I just saw it on Youtube. You can find it at "youtube.com/user/Buggy1Boy". 149. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, Daugherty is just getting more and more painful to listen to with each passing week. Nicole Briscoe isn't much better. 150. MarkMartinFan posted: 11.04.2012 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol at the parachute guy hitting Kevin Harvick's car with a sandbag. 151. Jocke Persson posted: 11.04.2012 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #149 I think Brad's pretty ok, Nicole however is 'meh', and Rusty is always over-the-top exaggerating everything. 152. Jocke Persson posted: 11.04.2012 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nascar drivers don't watch the Bond movies, do they? It felt scripted. 153. joey2448 posted: 11.04.2012 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I too remember Kit and WillyOnWheels...didn't have much use for them. Both have seemingly slipped away. Also, I just found out that the Iceman (not Terry Labonte) won?? WOOHOO! Great news! 154. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Kid Rock Bashing Of The Week* 155. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I miss Kit cause we thought a lot alike. 156. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just saw that skydiving incident that damaged Kevin Harvick's car. Whoever ordered that should be fired right on the spot. This isn't a "high octane asphalt circus", this is a race. And damaging a competitor's car before the race in the name of doing a meaningless circus act shouldn't be tolerated. At least NASCAR let Harvick's team repair the door without any penalty, because that is just unacceptable. 157. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I Said a race on these 1.5-2.5 mile tracks can be a real labyrinth of boredom. 158. Jim Davis posted: 11.04.2012 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I just saw that skydiving incident that damaged Kevin Harvick's car. Whoever ordered that should be fired right on the spot. This isn't a "high octane asphalt circus", this is a race." Get a grip. Skydivers perform at a lot of sporting events. It's an accident. Don't make it out to be more than it is. 159. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BSPN missed the start of pit stops, no surprise. 160. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a disaster for Kyle and the team. Slow pit stop caused by Kyle missing his box. 161. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow the racing here is awful. I am glad to have my driver in the title hunt, otherwise I might be asleep now. 162. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TMS consistently produces some of the worst racing on the cup schedule. At least LVMS and even KMS can sometimes get interesting on the restarts, Trucks and Nationwide here arent bad though. And look at all the empty seats. 163. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No Jim, I do think this is a big deal because of how they've been advertising this race as a circus for the last month. If it happened at a track where it was advertised as a normal race, such as the race at Kansas a few weeks ago, I wouldn't care as much. But because of the outlandish promotion that this race has been putting on for the last month, I do have a problem with this because it feels like a circus act gone wrong, rather than just a stunt gone wrong, and that to me is unacceptable for a sport where the main entertainment should be the racing and not this circus sideshow. Also, "get a grip"? You make it sound as if I'm having a psychological breakdown or something. Just because I want to see a race and not a sideshow I should "get a grip"? I'd rather watch a boring race like this one than watch a boring race with a circus sideshow that's somehow supposed to make me excited for the race, and instead de-legitimizes the sport. Seriously, "get a grip"? How about you get off other people's cases for once. Not once have I seen you make a comment on the race or on the sport without trying to correct people when you believe them to be wrong. Maybe it's you who should "get a grip". As for the race, I'm sick of ESPN's camera angles and repetitive talk on the Chase contenders. So now I'm watching the Broncos beat the Bungles and listening to PRN (once again, not as good as MRN, but better than nothing), with RaceBuddy open as well. It's a shame that I need so much media nowadays to enjoy the race. I used to just watch it on TV and that was good enough, but now it's just unbearable. I hope BSPN doesn't renegotiate their TV deal that ends following the 2014 season. 164. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR.com just reports there's been a BS debris caution. What a shocker. If not for BS cautions, this race would probably go green flag to flag. 165. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree that skydiving thing was ridiculous. They have to do shit like that to take the focus off how bad the racing is. This place is simply pathetic. I am actually glad for this bullshit debris caution. 166. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember watching the Nationwide race yesterday, and every time they showed an aerial shot it looked like there was about 200 people sitting in turns 3 and 4. The Truck race was pretty boring for Truck Series standards, so right there I knew this was going to be a rough weekend. The Nationwide race was only memorable because of Ryan Blaney and Kevin Swindell's career best runs in the series, along with the post-race incident between Denny and "Dale Earnhardt's heir apparent". Can't say I'm surprised that the Cup race is boring based on how the weekend has gone so far. It seems like the #24 team's ceiling is 11th in this race. Sad. Awesome, Brad just took the lead on pit road! 167. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tell me whose bright idea it was to make these 1.5 mile cookie cutters NASCAR's default style of track. Bruton Smith, Brian France, or both? My guess is both. 168. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Noticed that ESPN never mentioned the reason for the caution. I assumed it was debris, but it would've been nice for them to tell us. 169. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nope, Keselowski doesn't get to lead a lap because Ryan Newman stayed out. 170. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, PRN announced that it was debris. Since ESPN never mentioned it, my guess is that is was a "caution for the sake of having a caution" (also known as a phantom caution). Burton Smith said earlier this year that he wanted NASCAR to throw more cautions in order to "excite the fans", so there's a good chance that he instructed that caution. 171. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now he will. Keselowski's car seems considerably stronger than Johnson's. 172. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now Brad's in the lead. 173. JRacingFast posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im just gonna flat out say it becuase we all know everyone else is thinking it.....This track sucks!......And i hate to keep beating the same drum.....But I want the Rock back! 174. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) GASP...A legit caution! A. J. Allmendinger destroyed his car by spinning through the grass. 175. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I want dirt tracks back! These snotty millionaire owners can afford. 176. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for the "debris" caution, NASCAR.com said Ryan Newman (who was about to go a lap down) reported debris on the track, then they threw the debris caution. So basically if any driver out there starts reporting debris on the track, they'll throw the caution automatically... 177. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm serious, all I am doing is paying attention to RaceView and Brad and JJ's lap times. 178. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just as I expected, terrible stuff so far. There's some good racing for two laps after a restart, but then everything fizzles out. I agree, the Parachute Incident was utter bullshit. If I was Eddie Gossage/Bruton Smith, I would be ashamed of myself after that. Speaking of Bruton Smith, I'd just like to tell him to go screw himself. You know, for owning all of these horrible tracks that we are going to instead of Wilkesboro, Rockingham, and a second race at Darlington. Thanks buddy. 179. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm starting to think that what dalejrfan posted about Hendrick favoring Johnson over Dale Jr is right. I know you will say i'm wrong and it's because Jr is not a good driver but all i'm saying is that i find it strange that Johnson gets cars that can win at any race and it takes a miracle of God for Dale Jr to win. I think that is how he won Michigan. I might be wrong but i just can't help but think there might possibly be some favoritisim for Johnson. 180. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, that sucks for A.J. He's been running pretty well in that #51 car, but doesn't have any good finishes and two wrecked race cars to show for it. I haven't taken a good look at next year's cars, but I hope the new cars' splitters don't tear as easily as these ones do. If A.J. doesn't hit the grass, he has no damage from that spin. But it isn't just the grass that damages the splitters on these cars. At Talladega last fall, Ryan Newman spun after a bump from Stewart, and tore his splitter by spinning on the asphalt at between the start/finish line and turn 1. Anyways, I hope next year's cars can hold together better than these ones. I've heard a rumor that A.J. may be heading to BK Racing next year with Mike Ford as his crew chief. I don't know whether he would be replacing Travis Kvapil or if a 3rd car is added to the team, but I hope he does go there next year because it would be a great opportunity for him to be in a full-time ride again. Plus, it would be the second time he drives for a self-sponsored team, as he previously drove for Red Bull in '07 and '08. 181. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Am I the only one who has a feeling Darlington will lose its last remaining date sometime in the near future...? 182. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've heard a rumor that A.J. may be heading to BK Racing next year with Mike Ford as his crew chief." Wow, haven't heard that one yet. I hope it happens. I had heard the rumor that Mike Ford would be going there, but I just figured he would be Landon Cassill's crew chief. To me, this just adds on to the rumor that Finch is probably gonna close down after this year. It's a shame. I feel bad for the crew guys that will have to find work. But if there is a bright side, it's the fact that we'll never have to see Finch idiotically can a deserving driver ever again (Mike Bliss, Johnny Benson, James Buescher, Johnny Sauter, Randy Lajoie, etc). 183. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's another thing Bruton Smith and Jerry Jones have in common, as they replaced long-standing members of the sport when they arrived. In '89, Jerry Jones fired the only head coach (Tom Landry) and GM (Tex Schramm) that the Cowboys had ever had in his first year as the Cowboys owner. And in '96, Bruton Smith bought North Wilkesboro, only to take it off the NASCAR Cup schedule and replace it with the track we're currently watching today. I don't understand why he would buy the track if he wasn't going to use it, as that sounds like a bad business decision. 184. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution AGAIN. So is this going to suddenly be a ridiculous caution fest...? 185. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now Montoya's splitter is torn up after hitting the grass while trying to avoid the chain reaction crash up ahead. I'm not sure if this is so much a splitter problem as it is a grass problem, as he hit almost the same spot that A.J. hit earlier. 186. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Bruton bought North Wilkesboro so he could move a race from there to Texas. 187. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darlington needs to GAIN a date. The attendance there was as good as it was anywhere this year. We need to return to our roots. Shit races at shit tracks like this one is what is bringing the sport down. 188. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, I try not to think about that possibility, as even the thought of losing Darlington is sickening. I wouldn't be surprised if they turn it into a Cup-only event in the future, though. murb, I actually thought Ford would become Kvapil's crew chief next season when I heard he would be joining BK Racing next year. I think Landon and crew chief Doug Richert have worked very well together and I'd imagine that pair will stay together next season. 189. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) God, I hope they don't get rid of Darlington. But I should mention, not too long ago I had this really odd dream in which about 10 years down the road, this had happened to the NASCAR schedule: -Bristol loses its spring date and it's replaced with a second date for Kentucky -Darlington loses the Southern 500 and goes off the schedule altogether; its date is replaced with a second date for Chicagoland -Martinsville loses its fall date and that race is replaced with a second date for Las Vegas. What scares me is that this doesn't sound entirely impossible. If that ACTUALLY happened, I think everybody would be quite mad. 190. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) These cautions are taking forever. 191. Mr X posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully they're ahead of their quota for commercials now. 192. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "-Bristol loses its spring date and it's replaced with a second date for Kentucky -Darlington loses the Southern 500 and goes off the schedule altogether; its date is replaced with a second date for Chicagoland -Martinsville loses its fall date and that race is replaced with a second date for Las Vegas." AAAAHHH! 193. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The last two on your list seem extremely possible. I don't think they would ever get rid of a Bristol race, considering its popularity and the fact that Bruton also owns it. But I can totally see Las Vegas getting a second date here within the next couple years, and I wouldn't be shocked if it is at a place like Martinsville's expense. 194. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks a lot Schroeder51, now I'm going to have nightmares tonight. Just the thought of any of those 3 changes scares me. It's not just because they're terrible ideas, but because they don't seem entirely out of the realm of possibility. I think Bristol is safe because it is an SMI owned track, which in the end may be the only thing that matters. When the hell did Jeff Gordon enter the top ten? I was expecting an 11th-15th place run today, and now he's on the verge of taking 5th place away from Truex. Now I have two drivers to root for to win. Awesome. 195. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Martinsville were to lose a date to Las Vegas (especially now that Vegas is basically a carbon-copy of Chicago), I'll bet DSFF would request to work that weekend just to get away from the reality that the track he always goes to has been replaced by a cookie cutter. 196. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, if they did that to Martinsville and/or Darlington, I think most of us would get DSFF's address so that we could have a get together and drink Koolaid. 197. DaleJrFan posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see where someone said i was possibly right about the Johnson Jr thing but that is beside the point. What nascar should do is switch the Darlington and Atlanta race dates that way Darlington is run on labor day weekend like it should be and take the spring race from kansas and give it to rockingham. I know i have lost what respest i might have had with all of you with the hendrick playing favorites thing but i was just wondering if anyone thinks Dale Jr will ever win again or will he finish his career with 19 wins. Hopefully he will win again. 198. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon is headed to the front, boys! 199. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i must be hallucinating. Danica Patrick is running third. 200. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was only because of green flag pit stops... I'm actually really shocked NASCAR didn't suddenly throw a debris caution while she was running third, though...that would have been VERY predictable. 201. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fact that she still is on the lead lap is incredible. I thought I capitalized that I in my previous post. 202. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm actually really shocked NASCAR didn't suddenly throw a debris caution while she was running third, though...that would have been VERY predictable." That would have been convienient, wouldn't it? 203. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, here's that BS debris caution I thought was going to come out soon! 204. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's your debris caution, Bruton. 205. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm actually really surprised by Jeff Gordon's run today. 206. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF you know that if Keselowski fails to win the championship he will be the next victim of the Johnson Jinx in 2013. 207. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Recipe for an awful race: -No racing for the lead. Check -Single file racing all over. Check -Long green runs under which nothing happens. Check -The cautions that do fall last forever. Check -Phony debris cautions. Check -Domination by The Emotionless Juggernaut. Check 208. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now the "emotional juggernaut" has taken the lead on the restart. 209. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race is at a Bruton Smith owned track that isn't Bristol - Check That's like my third Bruton bash of the day, lol. And he deserves every one of them. 210. JRacingFast posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did i miss something are did ESPN not show are mention the lead change our how johnson got to 3rd?? 211. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kyle ends up winning this race. His car seems to be getting better and better. 212. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, I take that one back. Sonoma and Atlanta are good too. But other than those two and Bristol, you're pretty likely to have a dog of a race. 213. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brad Kadlowski" - Brad Daugherty Kyle does look like he has the best car right now, but Brad is sticking with him. Once we get a couple more debris cautions, it will be interesting to see how the rest of this race plays out. 214. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, a shocker, just as soon as you mention that, a debris caution! Do all of us have psychic powers...? 215. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR Race control is such a joke. 216. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh, this caution helps the 48 the most. 217. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, You just know that it's gonna happen. Remember, we're at a race track that is owned by a guy who thinks that races should have halftime breaks. So you just know that there has got to be some type of politicking going on up in the scorers tower between Nascar and the owners. 218. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bruton Smith what an idiot, says F1 at Austin won't succeed then a couple of hours later has a half-empty Speedway for NASCAR in the much bigger DFW market. Great job. 219. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon must have a fast car. He didn't hang back on the restart like he normally does. 220. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course, now he lays back since he can't pass the #48 team. Ugh. 221. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, I think it's pretty safe to officially christen this thread as "The 2012 Racing Reference Roast of Bruton Smith, Presented by AAA". Everyone is taking shots at him today. 222. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dammit Gordon stop being a wuss and pass the 48 car. 223. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I used to forget that Sonoma Raceway was SMI-owned because the track actually had GOOD racing. There's my shot at Smith. 224. Dave #38 Fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) to all the people who were jokingly saying they were going to fall asleep, i actually did! i was up last night studying, and fell asleep at around lap 50ish, woke up briefly when the announcers raised their voices during the allmendinger crash, woke up again around the third round of green flag pit stops, then woke up for good around lap 220. and it doesn't look like i've missed much, lol. the comments on this board are more entertaining than this "race". 225. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like Jimmie Johnson might not make it to the end on one more pit stop. 226. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad to see they finally took the reigns off Gordon. He may be fast enough to catch Brad for the lead. 227. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, Brad is clutching it in every corner and still keeping the lead. 228. Dave #38 Fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) gordon's day may be done. 229. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wile E Coyote. Tire was going down. 230. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ///WWE 231. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bull Shit 232. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They couldn't wait a few more laps to throw that caution? 233. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a joke. 234. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon will finish 30th with a top 5 car... 235. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad slid through his pit. 236. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad really F'ed up that pit stop. 237. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) GGGRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! Just when Jeff Gordon finally has a FAST car. 238. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And people wonder so few racing fans around the world take NASCAR seriously? 239. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's about as soul crushing as it gets. 240. John Royal posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thats it, Johnson will win the championship. 241. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Won't be surprised if this race goes green long enough for Gordon to have to pit again and the caution comes out again immediately afterwards so he seals that 30th place finish. If that happens... 242. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other news, this James Bond stuff is really getting on my nerves. 243. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson's 4 laps short on fuel and Kyle may have an engine problem. 244. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey got Ambrose'd just as Brad drove by. THAT was close. 245. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm pretty excited about Pastor Maldonado's second career Top 5 in the Abu Dhabi Grand Pix,I really don't have anything good to say about the Cup race though. 246. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anybody want Jimmie Johnson to blow an engine? I'm sitting in car with a laptop listening to the race on satellite radio. 247. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I want to see Brad whip all the ass, and win this damn race! 248. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ....I guess I can't see it happen considering i'm listening:( 249. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Does anybody want Jimmie Johnson to blow an engine? " Let me just say, if Johnson were to not finish, I would rather have it be because of engine problems than a crash. 250. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The one good thing about Jeff Gordon being back in the pack is that we are seeing the full extent of his car's speed. 251. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow a legit yellow. Reminds me of Biffle's impact in the fall 06 race. 252. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) GASP...a legit caution? What is that...just the third one all race? 253. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All the fuel saving scenarios are gone, now it's about speed. 254. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Let me just say, if Johnson were to not finish, I would rather have it be because of engine problems than a crash." I don't hate anyone enough to want to see them crash. 255. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, that was a gamble. 256. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad takes just 2 tires. I don't know about this one. 257. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "All the fuel saving scenarios are gone, now it's about speed." Well, then Jeff's all set... ...I wish. 258. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I f**king love Bad Brad!! 259. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie's now complaining that Brad jumped the start. lol 260. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) GOD DAMN IT!!!!! 261. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kasey Kahne crashes. 262. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad and Jimmie side-by-side on the restart. Doesn't get much better. 263. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Jeff Gordon screws up his car... 264. JRacingFast posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BULL f**kING SHIT!......Ive seen cars hit the wall twice as hard and they havent thrown the caution..... 265. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice going Biffle. You got Gordon sideways and knocked Kasey Kahne into the wall, AND created another restart for Brad on two tires. That's the most noise he's made all Chase. 266. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) God, those flashing lights on the fence are so stupid. 267. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He wasn't even close to starting early. I hate this last caution. Not good for Brad. 268. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know what Jimmie's complaining about, it looked like Jimmie was a little slow on the restart if anything. 269. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SHUT YOUR DAMN MOUTH, KYLE!!! 270. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kylie Bush having a bad year. 271. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad didn't jump it. That was just Jimmie essentially saying, "Oh damn, they really are outfoxing us". Kyle thinks Brad jumped it too, but that isn't really surprising. 272. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2009 Steve Addington fired by the 18 team: the worst move since FatBack McSwain was fired by... ...the 18 team. 273. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle thinks Brad jumped, yet they were neck & neck in turns 1 & 2 274. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is just me, but I think this race has people a little edgy. 275. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell yeah Brad! Knock that sumbitch outta the way! 276. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Get ready for a Kyle-esque bitch fit from Jimmie after this race... 277. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NO!!!!! 278. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy crap... 279. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why do I get the feeling Brad and Jimmie are going to wreck each other on the restart? 280. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I refuse to lose this damn championship" - Brad Sounds like a certain rainbow warrior team from years ago. 281. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race officially falls into the "Crappy Race, Legendary Ending" category. Even though it hasn't played out yet. I have the same feeling, Schroeder. 282. 18fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was cool! 283. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too many bullets for Brad to dodge. 284. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie does NOT like being beaten by somebody who may be better than him. Jimmie's acting kinda like a bitch in my opinion. 285. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoever wins this race on the last restart, I'm going to make a smell bet it won't be Brad or Jimmie... 286. JRacingFast posted: 11.04.2012 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This restarts gonna be legen.......wait for it.....dary..... 287. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is why you never leave a race early, no matter how boring it is. 288. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon REFUSES to finish outside the top 15!! *snorts laughter* 289. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice run by Kurt Busch so far... 290. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a thresh-hold moment for Bad Brad. 291. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dammit Jimmie Johnson! 292. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, nevermind... 293. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else notice that Jimmie beat Brad to the line? 294. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) why bother... 295. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a travesty. 296. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Johnson complaining about JUMPING RESTARTS? Did you just watch that one??? 297. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Johnson clearly made it to line before Keselowski. 298. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like six-time is gonna happen. f**k this. 299. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, it's like all the drivers outside of Brad and Jimmie got together before the race and agreed to all wreck at the end to create as many restarts as possible. 300. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, is that "maximum points" b.s. that they talk about getting on anyone else's nerves? As if winning the pole gives you points. Give me a break. 301. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OH MY GOD!!!! ARE YOU SERIOUS???? HE DID BEAT HIM TO THE LINE!!!! 302. Baker posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Why does everything fall into Johnson's lap? The end of the race was garbage. A bunch of talentless hacks keep wrecking and forcing restart after restart. Keselowski had him beat. This Championship is over and I'm done with Nascar for a very very very long time. Its a joke. 303. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) God I hope Brad wins this championship. At least he isn't a hypocrite and a whiny little bitch like Johnson was right there. How embarrassing that that guy has won 5 titles against weak competition, and now can't stand having to actually earn this championship against a "lesser" driver. 304. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Career win No. 60, the first driver to do so since Jeff Gordon in the 2002 Southern 500. 305. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rules are a part of motorsport, oh wait it's NASCAR... 306. Kenny posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) f**k you jemmie Johnson man f**k YOU!!! 307. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How many people threw up after seeing this? 308. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "God I hope Brad wins this championship. At least he isn't a hypocrite and a whiny little bitch like Johnson was right there. How embarrassing that that guy has won 5 titles against weak competition, and now can't stand having to actually earn this championship against a "lesser" driver." If you looked up "hitting the nail on the head", there would be a picture of this paragraph. 309. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stupid typical competition interruptions while Brad is pulling away,what a f**king joke. 310. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle caused two cautions at the end, getting into Jeff who put Kasey into the wall, and getting into Edwards who hit Mark and sent him into the wall. Just because you don't know how to win a Cup championship, don't ruin it for the guys who actually can. To quote Harvick from Bristol '02, "Biffle's an idiot." 311. Baker posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Jimmie jumped the start He is a garbage cheater. He cannot beat Brad even with the superior car and team so he has to resort to jumping restarts. Coward. 312. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder: I haven't thrown up yet, but then again I haven't seen it yet, either. 313. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To quote Harvick from Bristol '02, 'Biffle's an idiot.'" It takes one to know one. 314. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Remember Sadler at Indy? 315. Ryan posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Jimmie Johnson talking about someone being sketchy??? Wow, him and Knaus have cheated to 5 Chase titles and he is seriously talking about someone being sketchy??? Nascar did their best to give the 48 this one... Not to mention he beat the 2 on the last restart to the line. The fix is in... as usual 316. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) True David, but in that one moment Harvick had a point. 317. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yup, I'm starting to get that woozy feeling. 318. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Of course Jimmie beat Brad to the line after whining like a little girl on Brad's previous clean restart. That is the HMS way, that is the 48 way. Blatant technical cheating violations? That's ok, they're just getting every advantage they can. And they wonder why ratings, attendance, and overall interest in NASCAR is at an all time low. Growing up we were taught cheaters never win. God these last 10 years of NASCAR just rips your soul out. You care, you get caught up in it, and the sport just keeps kicking us in the teeth. Your 2012 championship team, for the 6th time in 7 years, will be owned by a convicted felon, crew chiefed by a serial cheater who has zero integrity, and a driver who forgot his roots. Have fun NASCAR with these last two weeks of the pits of ratings. 319. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Wouldn't it be great if NASCAR did like the old days and stripped Jimmie of this win? No, seriously. There's a part of me that actually wishes they would do that in this era. 320. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hendrick is scum as well just ask Honda customers. 321. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Growing up we were taught cheaters never win. God these last 10 years of NASCAR just rips your soul out." Amen. 322. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would literary cut my legs off if it meant Jimmie would never race in NASCAR again. 323. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Johnson is a good driver but he is a 5 time champion because of the chase. Nascar should do away with the chase and go gack to going all year for the championship. It has took 2 championships away from Jeff Gordon, 2 from Carl Edwards, and 1 from Kevin Harvick. Johnson would be a 2 time chamion if the championship was decided the way it should be (He would be 3 times if he wins it after this year this way). 2 or 3 championships make him one of the best to race in Nascar and it would get him into the hall of fame but if he beats Petty and Earnhardts record of 7 it wouldn't be the same as if he had done it all year. 324. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once again it seems that the inmates are running the asylum in NASCAR. 325. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vettel breaks rule in FIA/F1: Punished, sent to back of grid Johnson breaks rule in NASCAR: Not punished, uses it to win race 326. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think we all need a few drinks of alcohol to get the bad taste of this lousy race out of our systems. 327. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would literally cut my legs off if it meant Jimmie would never race in NASCAR again." Uh, I wouldn't go THAT far. 328. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If NASCAR were fair they'd penalize Jimmie to last on the lead lap for jumping the final restart. 329. Cooper posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm crying. Wanted that victory so bad. 330. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Amen DSFF. I don't care how many championships Jimmie wins, there will always be a big asterisk next to them in a lot of people's minds and this act of hypocrisy by him tonight just adds to the list. I try to like the guy, I really do. But it's stuff like this that makes it impossible for me to root for the guy. 331. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I try to like the guy, I really do. But it's stuff like this that makes it impossible for me to root for the guy." I hear you, man. 332. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think we all need a few drinks of alcohol to get the bad taste of this lousy race out of our systems." I'm gonna eat some Pizza and drink some delicious Coke Zero. I'm hoping for an epic choke in the last 2 races for the "untouchable" Jimmie J. He clearly is the biggest hypocrite in Nascar when a driver that's obviously his match can best him mentally and driving wise. Brad K. is the Luke Skywalker of Nascar and it goes without saying that Jimmie is Darth Vader and Rick is The Emporer and I guess that make's Jeff Gordon Obi Wan? 333. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing that hurts me is that I was just a little kid when I watched in the late 90s and early 00s, so I never knew how good I had it. But these last 5 or 6 years (mainly since 2007- I actually thought 2004, 2005, and 2006 were good years) have really showed me what an amazing sport this used to be. I'd like to thank Brain France for all the hard work and contributions he's made to help continue on the visions that his father and grandfather both had. And I'd also like to thank Rick, Chad, Jimmie, and the entire 48 team for showing us what integrity and class looks like. You guys really amazing. 5, and now probably 6 championships. 334. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TeamPlayersBlue, I know a lot of people dislike the FIA and their rules, but at least they're fairly consistent about their rules. NASCAR lost their integrity when they ruled Regan Smith passed Stewart below the yellow line at Dega '08, even though Junior did the same thing to Kenseth 5 years earlier and wasn't penalized. For them to penalize Sadler at Indy and ignore the "emotionless juggernaut except when he gets beat by a "lesser" driver" for passing the leader on the restart (ironically, both times Brad was the leader) is just another shovel of dirt on NASCAR's dead integrity. 335. BON GORDON posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race was just a big kick in the face. I'm tired of Gordon not finishing where he deserves to finish and I'm tired of Johnson winning races and championships. Gordon needs to practice restarts because either he's not aggressive enough or he wrecks like he did with himself and Kahne. Could've probably at least got a Top Ten but just another garbage finish in a garbage season. My anger level is at a 10. I knew I should've took a week off of racing after Martinsville. Johnson will be the champion yet another year and I'm pissed yet another Sunday. Can't wait till this season is over and Johnson's retirement in ten years so I can see a new champion. I better stop or the complaining won't. 336. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Has anyone every been more dejected after watching a race? Seriously, that was heart-breaking stuff... Last night's finish to the LSU/Alabama game was similar. Both dynasties were on the ropes and near the end, they came out ahead. Bullcrap of a finish and the ratings will bear that out for Phoenix and Homestead. Jimmie whining on the team radio is beyond immature. I don't have a problem with the 48 team winning straight up, but to participate in this group psychosis of serial whining. Damn I want Petty, Pearson, Waltrip, Earnhardt, etc. back in NASCAR... enough whinny, bitching and moaning among the competition. 337. Matt L posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Elliott Sadler's penalty at Indy continues to haunt NASCAR... 338. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brad K. is the Luke Skywalker of Nascar and it goes without saying that Jimmie is Darth Vader and Rick is The Emporer and I guess that make's Jeff Gordon Obi Wan" Brad = Luke Wolfe = Hans Solo Penske = Yoda Jimmie = Vader Rick = Palpatine Gordon = Obi Wan (Since he trained Anakin, who turned into Vader, just like how Jeff "trained" Jimmie) 339. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I try too, and there is a long list of drivers in the past I have disliked. But they never made me wanna just quit keeping up with the sport the way the 48 team has. There are no redeemable qualities about them. Every time they win a race or a championship, it makes me hate myself for caring so much. And this year, with Brad so close, it is even worse. Bottom line: this race represented everything that is wrong with the Brian France era of NASCAR. And that is why interest and attendance have bottomed out. And with JJ's 6th title in 7 years, it will make things even worse. Why would any self respecting fan want to watch or attend a NASCAR race anymore? 340. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing that hurts me is that I was just a little kid when I watched in the late 90s and early 00s, so I never knew how good I had it. But these last 5 or 6 years (mainly since 2007- I actually thought 2004, 2005, and 2006 were good years) have really showed me what an amazing sport this used to be. Ditto times 1,000 murb... What I wouldn't take to have Jarrett, the Labontes, etc. who didn't exhibit the serial hypocrisy and "whinny" behavior/actions. 341. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Knaus would be Grand Moff Tarkin. Okay, I'm done with the nerdy Star Wars comparisons now. 342. 13 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Danica blocks on pit road with a hendrick engine, Kasey kahne wrecks and stays on track to get a caution with a hendrick car, Mark Martin a former hendrick driver wrecks, Jimmie Johnson wins a race Brad had locked up in a f**king hendrick car NASCAR is a load of bullshit 343. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb, I'd love to see more NASCAR/Star Wars comparisons. Would someone like Kevin Conway be like...Jar Jar Binks? 344. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Time to drown away all your sorrows with a few cold ones. 345. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "murb, I'd love to see more NASCAR/Star Wars comparisons. Would someone like Kevin Conway be like...Jar Jar Binks?" HAHAHAHA!!!! That's a good one. And a perfect fit at that. I can't really think of anymore. I was just going off of the current Brad vs Jimmie situation, but I'm sure you could get a lot more technical with it. It was pretty fun when we did it with drivers and quarterbacks and that type of stuff. 346. jabber1990 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok look, we know who is going to win the championship, we don't know who's going to win the next 2 races (well one of the 2) so shut up and watch the next 2 raaces 347. TS1420 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Great. Jimmie & Co cheat their way to another championship.... The #48 team is proof karma doesn't exist since all the good luck and golden opportunities keeps dropping in their lap year after year despite being one of the dirtiest racing team ever. 348. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why would any self respecting fan want to watch or attend a NASCAR race anymore?" I love the "Lady in Black" too much to never want to go to the Southern 500, but other than that it means very little to nothing to attend a race in the shape the governing body and competition is in. 349. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "murb, I'd love to see more NASCAR/Star Wars comparisons. Would someone like Kevin Conway be like...Jar Jar Binks?" Where's MY credit? He was just replying to MY post to begin with. Kidding. 350. Kenny posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm with alot of you I feel like I need to puke I haven't felt like this after a race seance talladega of 06 351. MStall41 posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The rule on the start finish line issue is that if you beat someone to the line, you can give it back to them after the start/finish. Jimmie did that, perhaps without even realizing it. Go back and watch all of the other restarts in the race and you'll see that the 2nd place car beat the leader many times, gave the spot back, and everything was ok. People are just friggin butthurt that the 48 won again. As for the rest of the event, I don't know what you guys were watching, but that was an awesome race (at least from the second half to the finish). Sometimes I wonder if some NASCAR fans will ever be happy. 352. Kenny posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I'm glade jr got a top ten :) 353. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sometimes I wonder if some NASCAR fans will ever be happy." Yeah, if thing went Gordon's way for a change.Who the hell is going to be happy with Jimmie Johnson winning and bitching if he gets beat? Nobody like's him,therefore nobody will be happy when he wins. 354. Ryan posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 339 and 342 sooo right... Nascar is ruined. They want to blame the economy for empty seats and so forth, but it's their decision making such as going to the Chase and driving up the ticket prices for a while, along with hotel owners, and ridiculous parking prices, restrictor plates, gigantic teams, too many cookie cutter racetracks, getting away from short tracks and traditions, the media, networks and now HMS runs a monopoly with how many engines and "cars" they have out there. Matt Kenseth's 2003 season was the main reason for the Chase. I've been a devoted fan for about 25 years and I've lived through Nascar's peak years 1992-2001, but after today I've finally seen the writing on the wall and unfortunately after these last two races and other than maybe the Daytona 500 I'm not for sure how big of a fan I will be. I love racing, but not this way. Nascar has destroyed everything. There's a book out by Dan Wetzel called "Death to the BCS" and there needs to be one for the Chase as well. When Chad Knaus cheated those times he should have got a year like Peyton did for the Saints. He got slapped on the wrist too many times. I hope #2 can some how find a way to win, because all the chips are stacked against him. And it would be nice to see Penske win one in Nascar. He's one of my heroes just because of his ability to be a great leader and do things the right way. 355. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24, maybe if you posted more often, you'd get more credit :) This is the 4th time I truly felt disgusted after a race this season. It happened at Darlington when Jimmie won HMS's 200th race (thankfully I turned the TV off before the Hendrick love-fest in victory lane played out); at Dover when NASCAR blew an opportunity to have two titans battle for the championship when they threw a late caution after Gordon pitted, and basically handed the win to Jimmie; at Atlanta a couple months ago when Gordon lost to Denny because I thought that was the end of his Chase hopes; and now tonight after Jimmie beat Brad to the line and got to keep his win. However, the other three times I was disgusted because either a guy I wanted to win lost or a guy I didn't want to win won. This time, while both of those occurrences happened again, the circumstances by which the race was won leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Whether it be the hypocrisy of the #48 about jumping the restart, or just the fact that NASCAR overlooked the #48 beating the leader to the line and not getting penalized, which is what they did to Sadler at Indy (both of whom are title contenders, but in different series'), leaves me disappointed both in the #48 and the governing body for proving once again that they aren't afraid to change the rules if it benefits a specific driver/team/sponsor. Hopefully this is my last rant on the #48 tonight because I hate beating a dead horse to death. Speaking of the ExtenZe man, whatever happened to Conway? The last I heard of him, a man saw a "missing person" ad on his car and turned himself in as a result. 356. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I said eairler about Johnson and the chase. If there was no chase he would have a 19 point lead instead of 7. I do agree with the people that want Brad to win the championship though, Jimmie is a good driver but he is no Richard Petty or Dale Earnhardt. 357. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe Conway finally realized NASCAR was just not for him. If anything, I think he might have been NASCAR's very own version of a troll... 358. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Many fans do not have a problem with the 48 team, but what they do have a problem with is a team with little to no integrity. Is it any wonder the team with little integrity is dominating an era devoid of much integrity with a sanctioning body with its own integrity issues? 359. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about a non-racing topic to talk about until Phoenix? My Top 12 Favorite(right now)Movies: 1. 2001: A space Odyssey 2. Pale Rider 3. There Will Be Blood 4. Full Metal Jacket(Huge Kubrick fan) 5. Jurassic Park 6. 12 Monkeys 7. The Good The Bad The Ugly 8. Barry Lyndon(most underrated Stanley Kubrick flick) 9. The Road Warrior 10. Suicide Kings 11. Fight Club 12. Night of the Living Dead Top 3 Favorite Actor's: 1. Christopher Walken 2. Clint Eastwood 3. Jack Nicholson 360. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're probably right Schroeder51. He might have went back to racing motorcycles like he used to, but I don't know for sure. I'll always remember a radio transmission I heard from the #24 team's radio in 2010. Steve Letarte said "The #16's down a cylinder", to which Gordon replied "And the #34's down a driver." That pretty much sums of Conway's tenure while running with the big boys. If you think about it, he's actually worse than Danica as far as getting an undeserved opportunity in Cup because at least Danica has a few Nationwide top tens to her credit. 361. Kenny posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Kurt Busch finished in the top 10 witch I'm also happy with :) 362. Cooper posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's not the fact that Jimmie beat Brad that has me so angry, but the way Jimmie and Kyle acted near the end of the race. Brad barely takes off before the restart line (Kyle by the way is the master at doing this) and they whine, bitch, and complain as if Brad just took a dump on their front lawn. Brad absolutely embarasses them on two restarts by outdriving them on two tires and Jimmie calls it "sketchy". On top of that, everyone tries to make it sound like it's the best racing ever because a driver is actually racing hard. Back in the day, the way Brad and Jimmie raced was the norm. So the question is this? Jimmie may have won the race, but which man is the actually the winner? I think everybody knows the answer to this. Jimmie beat Brad to the line and instead of crying and bitching, Brad smiles and respectfully says "it's just one of these deals". I may consider myself the biggest Brad fan in the world and sometimes my opinions in the past have come off a little bias, but I have realized it's not bias but it's the truth. With two races to go, the dream is still alive. The dream can still become a reality. NASCAR had never needed something so bad. 363. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The #16's down a cylinder", to which Gordon replied "And the #34's down a driver." HaHaHaHaHaHA!! For all his humility, Gordon has a classy and witty sense of humor. 364. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @murb: So is Sam Hornish Chewbacca? 365. BON GORDON posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright this my last post of the week. I need to get my mind off of NASCAR for awhile. No one should be as mad as me about a sport but I am. Enjoy compairing drivers to cartoon charcters or football players or whatever. Congrats to Jimmie on title number six. I honestly hate Johnson doing well but he deserves it this year. All I want at this point is for stupid Gordon to finish strong and hold off his bad luck off for the last two races. I highly doubt it will happen but whatever. Peace everyone. 366. 12345Dude posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I disagree about Jimmie jumping the re-start. That's playing it smart. You knew NASCAR wasn't going to make him go threw pit road and lose the championship because he just barley beat Brad to the line. Of course they wouldn't do that. Brad goofed up twice on pit road. You would of never seen Jimmie do that. Think if Brad was still in front and could of taken 4 tires instead of 2, if he never would of over shot his pit box previously. These close title hunts prove why the chase is a good thing. They just need to make the Regular Season more important. And to change the Chase tracks up every single year. The chase is the only thing that matters and everyone knows tracks like Watkins Glen, Darlington, Bristol etc. don't mean shit. Cause there not in the Chase and the Regular Season doesn't matter. I think we are watching the greatest racer there ever will be. I don't think he cheated. 367. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmy Spencer is the Jabba the Hut of Nascar. 368. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love Christopher Walken solely for his "Cowbell" skit on SNL. He was great in Deer Hunter too, but the ending to that movie made me sad. Clint Eastwood is one of the few living legends in the world today, actor or not. I love "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly". "Jurassic Park" is another great one, but I can't help but feel Spielberg missed the boat on that one because he made it into a monster movie when it could have been a spectacle that embraced the idea of dinosaurs and humans living at the same time. "2001: A Space Odyssey" weirded me out, but I only saw the first 20-30 minutes. And I've never seen "Full Metal Jacket", but that is #1 on my "must-watch" list. An interesting fact about "The Road Warrior": Michael Hegstrand started training to be a pro wrestler in the early '80s with his good friend James Laurinaitis, with whom he started tag teaming with. When coming up with a gimmick and team name, Hegstrand watched the movie "The Road Warrior" one day and had a great idea. Long story short, the two of them went by the names Hawk and Animal, respectively, and called their team "The Road Warriors". 369. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I love Christopher Walken solely for his "Cowbell" skit on SNL." Please watch Suicide Kings, because, in my opinion, it is Walkens best film. 370. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmy Spencer is the Jabba the Hut of Nascar." Most accurate NASCAR/Star Wars comparison of all-time. "I think we are watching the greatest racer there ever will be." Dale Earnhardt just rolled over in his grave from that comment. 371. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You want a REALLY good comparison? Darrell Waltrip (in the broadcast booth, at least) is pretty much Homer Simpson. 372. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think we are watching the greatest racer there ever will be." If you mean Fernando Alonso,I agree. 373. Cooper posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Another thing that has gone through my mind is I feel most of the garage area is envious or jealous of Brad. Tony Stewart has mentioned that Brad has a death wish if he keeps racing like he did on the restart. Add to the fact that no one helped him at Dega and all the drivers are basically halfway in Jimmie's driver suit. Plus Kyle Busch has been a dick to him always and Denny and Carl. Plus Danica taking up more parking space then an old lady driving an oldsmobile. If Brad wins, alot of people in the garage are going to feel like shit, while fans will be opening champagne. It really is an interesting angle and something to ponder. 374. JG24FanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You want a REALLY good comparison? Darrell Waltrip (in the broadcast booth, at least) is pretty much Homer Simpson." That seems to be a little disrespectful towards Homer;) 375. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I seriously think Darrell's gone senial in the last couple of years. Not only is he providing useless commentary and losing his train of thought far too often, but he actually seems to enjoy his brother's company in the announce booth (YIKES!). I hate to say it, but I think Darrell should leave the sport (at least as an announcer) because he just isn't capable of doing a good job anymore. 376. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's definitely true. I honestly think Homer WOULD make a better announcer than DW. He'd be more entertaining, to say the least. 377. joey2448 posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) About an hour ago, my heart sank into my stomach upon watching the 48 team win a race that Brad should have won. But the comments here comparing NASCAR drivers and owners to Star Wars characters has considerably lifted my spirits! Haha, I love it! Jimmie is Vader, Hendrick is Palpatine, Jeff Gordon is Obi Wan, Kevin Conway is Jar Jar Binks... I LOVE READING THESE COMMENT BOARDS EACH AND EVERY WEEK! 378. Evan posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've already packed it in, I could generate more excitement with my diecast cars than the piece of crap these racers can put on. Might as well give Johnson the title. 379. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TeamPlayers, I guess you would have to consider Hornish as the "Chewbacca" in this whole title battle. Chewy never really does anything for the team so to speak, just like how Hornish and the 22 aren't really gonna be doing anything to help Brad, since that 22 team is basically getting the seat ready for Logano. The big problem I have with the 48 team is Chad Knaus, his cheating, and his brainwashing of Jimmie. DSFF nailed it when he said that Jimmie has lost his roots. He struggled to get to where he is at. After he won his first championship, he was very grateful and thankful for the opportunity. But as the titles have piled on, he's become more and more of a whiner, as he showed tonight with that whole restart incident. And in my opinion, I think the reason why he's acting like that is that he has adopted more of Chad's mentality, which includes "whine" and "hypocrisy" as the main ingredients. And obviously, Chad has been caught for cheating multiple times over the years, so that speaks for itself. I think it is definitely safe to say that their dynasty will have an asterisk next to it, at least in my mind. When I look at other dynasties in the sport (Petty in the 60s/70s, Waltrip in the mid 80s, Earnhardt in the late 80s/early 90s, and to a lesser extent, Gordon in the late 90s), I see nothing but classful dominance. But when I look at the 48's dynasty, I just see a power hungry crew chief that is obsessed with being the best with the driver just happening to be Jimmie Johnson. I don't know. Maybe it's just because I've lived through it. But Chad and his tight ship are the big problem that I have always had with them. 380. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.04.2012 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, Love the story about "The Road Warriors" gimmick. One of the best gimmicks in sports entertainment history to go along with the "western" Undertaker look. Did you see the Undertaker at Wrestlemania IX come to ringside in a chariot with a condor (bird of prey)... it was awesome. Too bad the match with Giant Gonzales was a dud and the only non-pin win in the Undertaker's 20-0 Wrestlemania streak. Danica Patrick is Padame (Revenge of the Sith portrayal, not the badass Episode I and II) 381. Jimmie Johnson posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Would you like some cheese with that whine? Sore losers. 382. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) From what I've heard, DW signed a contract with Fox that goes through 2014. So there's probably just gonna be two more years of him. I'll think he'll retire after that deal. Unfortunately, they'll probably replace him with Michael, who is even worse. It's incredibly ridiculous to have an active owner in your broadcast booth. When Rusty would be up there for the NNS races, you could just hear him trying hard not to be biased. And then, when something would happen to one of his drivers (Steven mostly, lol), it turned into an awkward situation. Plus, since MWR is getting way better, not only will you have just an active owner in the booth, but you would have a WINNING and CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDING owner in the booth. I'd much rather have DW up there until he's 80 then have to listen to Michael constantly gloating about his team. 383. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree Cooper. This year has totally been "the fans vs. NASCAR". From the bad racing, to the inconsistent rules, to the #48 returning to their cheating ways, to Bruton Smith trying to turn the sport into a circus, to Robin Pemberton calling the fans "needy" after a number of complaints about phantom debris cautions, to Stewart and Truex taking shots at the fans for wanting pack racing after the disastrous Talladega race in the spring, to the Waltrips dominating out TV sets in the spring, and just the overall bad management of the sport, NASCAR has done everything they can to make us mad this season, and the ratings and attendance shows that we're not buying what they're selling. This isn't new, it's been brewing for several years now and I think a lot of us fans have just about had it with the sport's mediocrity over the past decade. Now finally, we have someone who may be the answer. Someone who has the best chance at taking down the #48 empire. Someone who doesn't match the mold of a corporate NASCAR driver, say the politically correct things, or whine/bitch/complain when they get raced hard on the RACE track, and isn't afraid to dish back what he gets served. At the same time, he's down-to-earth, he's got swagger that says "I may not be the man yet, but I will be some day", and most importantly, he's real. He's not a carbon-copy of what today's NASCAR driver should look or act like, he is what he is and he isn't afraid to act naturally in front of the cameras in today's media-filled, politically correct world of NASCAR. He represents a lot of NASCAR fans today because he doesn't pretend to be something that he's not and had to work for everything he's gotten by what he is, not what he looks like. He is Brad Keselowski, and he is a breath of fresh air in today's corporate NASCAR world. Mark my words, if Brad wins this championship and beats the "Legion of Doom" despite their cheating ways, he will become the most deserving popular driver in the sport. Finally, we may have an answer to the #48 machine, and I hope like hell that he kicks their ass and beats them at their own game these next two weeks. 384. Anonymous posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb, Really? Petty running specially-built race cars against 3-year-old street cars, Junior Johnson's obviously rigged cars for Darrell (the engine that died immediately after the all-star race comes to mind), and T-Rex Gordon were examples of "classful dominance"? This is NASCAR. If you ain't cheating, you ain't winning. I'll give you Earnhardt, but the rest are completely meritless claims. 385. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good point murb. Darrell may be turning into a joke, but Michael is a punchline. I'd take Darrell any day because at least he doesn't have a dog in the fight. I remember watching the Nationwide race at IRP last year when Steve Wallace slammed into two parked cars, Michael Annett and Tim Andrews, after they had already crashed. Ricky Craven and Rusty were in the booth and Craven said that Steve got a bump from James Buescher that sent him into the parked cars. Then things got funny and awkward as the replay showed than Buescher did NOT make contact with Steve, and Steve basically wrecked himself trying to avoid a wreck that everyone else managed to avoid. In the booth, Craven was doing his best to re-assure Rusty that Steve did not just wreck both of Rusty's cars in a completely avoidable crash, as Rusty just kind of stood there in shock trying to make himself believe it. That was TV gold right there. Speaking of punchlines: Steve Wallace's Nationwide career. 386. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous, when I'm talking about classful dominance, I'm talking about they way the team portrays themselves. Not necessarily about the cheating. I wasn't alive, but I'm pretty sure that Petty and his team never would have whined about being "beaten to the restart", and then done the exact same thing they complained about on the very next restart. I wasn't alive, but I'm pretty sure that DW and his team never would have whined about being "beaten to the restart", and then done the exact same thing they complained about on the very next restart. I wasn't alive, but I'm pretty sure that Earnhardt and his team never would have whined about being "beaten to the restart", and then done the exact same thing they complained about on the very next restart. As for Gordon, yeah, they did some hypocritical things, but not nearly as often as this 48. That's why I said "to a lesser extent" before mentioning Gordon, to separate him from the other dynasties. 387. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Comparing Darrell to Homer Simpson is a huge unwarranted insult and low blow.... to Homer! Homer Simpson is an American icon, Darrell is an embarrassment to an embarrassing sport. 388. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I often forget how great Darrell was as a driver because his announcing, especially in the last 3 or 4 years, has been so awful that it almost trumps all of his great driving accolades. If not for that great piece on his career that SPEED did a year ago, I would have forgotten how great he once was. And since we're on the subject of Waltrips in the announce booth, Michael's announcing career makes his driving career look great by comparison. At least when he was driving we got a break from him since he was often off camera battling for 24th place. 389. Cooper posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, you are exactly right. There is a glimmer of hope to escape the doom, and it seems there is a higher power closing that opening. 390. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think a more accurate comparison would be to compare Darrell to Peter Griffin. 391. Bill Weber posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Predictions for the 2013 NASCAR World Championship: 1. Jeff Gordon 2 Michael Schumacher 3. Tony Stewart 4. Nate Robinson 5. Lewis Hamilton 6. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 7. Norm Benning 8. Jimmie Johnson 9. Ryan Newman 10. Deandre Williams Brad K will be DQ'ed from the NWC. 392. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've already packed it in, I could generate more excitement with my diecast cars than the piece of crap these racers can put on." STOP MOTION ANIMATION!!! I used to make those kinds of races. They were pretty bad, though. 393. Kenny posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I just had crispy chicken and rice I'm felling good now but I still wanna say f**k JJ(and I g2g to work tomorrow and listion to a guy I know phrase jemmie) 394. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And since there have been a lot of Jimmie Johnson/Darth Vader comparisons, I thought I'd chime in with one quote from the series. In Revenge of the Sith, after Obi Wan finishes kicking his ass, he screams "You were the chosen one!" That describes my sentiment towards Jimmie Johnson. You were the chosen one, Jimmie! You had a chance to make NASCAR great these last 6 years by trumping out your team's cheating ways by having a bright and likable personality, similar to how Obi Wan (Jeff Gordon), your "trainer" and early mentor, had. But instead you have made the sport very unlikable by being the most unlikable and unrelatable champion this sport has ever had. You could have given us someone who we can root for during his dynasty, but instead turned yourself into the emotionless juggernaut and brought the whole sport down with you as a result of your robotic on-camera personality. You were the chosen one Jimmie, and you let all of us NASCAR fans down. 395. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nobody mentioned this yet, but Danica Patrick finished...ON THE LEAD LAP!! Now we'll have a cascade of articles about this "achievement". 396. David posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Homer Simpson is an American icon' Please, don't make me throw up. 397. murb posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!! lol 398. Mr X posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ahh, alcohol, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems. 399. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know who else finished on the lead lap? Travis Kvapil in a start-up team that has lacked speed all year. But who cares about that, right? Good God our sport talks about the most worthless shit in the media. I don't praise him very often because, quite frankly, he usually doesn't deserve it, but I want to give a shout out to Dale Jr. for his top five run that turned into a 7th place finish. For him to finish as well as he did in just his second race back from his concussion and on a high speed track like Texas is pretty incredible. So for that, my hat's off to Junior for doing so well so soon after coming back from his injury. 400. Schroeder51 posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Beer! Now there's a temporary solution... 401. Spen posted: 11.04.2012 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boy, you sure miss a lot when you're working 12 hours. Anyway, congrats to Jimmie on getting win #60, and all but sealing up title #6. And a nice top five for Matt. Going back about 250 comments, I rather miss Kit and Willy myself. Kit tended to be a little too blunt for his own good sometimes, but he always had a good point, and Willy was always entertaining, if nothing else. Sean: Regarding Hamlin, you said: "I can't stand him either but with Darian Grubb he is 100% a future champion". I disagree. Gibbs has made him top priority on the team three times now, and he's failed to deliver a title each and every time. I expect that he'll go to being the #3 driver next year (Home Depot will be itching to get back into serious contention, and getting Kyle back up front will also be considered critical.) And eventually, Darrell Wallace will be in Cup, at which point Denny will be passed over completely. Even with Grubb (who I don't think will stay with Denny past next season), I don't see him ever winning a title, or even being a contender again. He's had his chances, and he failed. 402. cjs3872 posted: 11.04.2012 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why the fuss about the last restart? It appeared to me that if Jimmie Johnson beat Brad Keselowski to the line, it was only by a few inches. Usually NASCAR only takes action when it's obvious, and certainly that wasn't obvious. Now the preious restart, when Busch and Johnson were reportedly complaining about Brad jumping the start, I think they were out of line, because they were right there with Brad, as was Matt Kenseth, and I never heard of any complaints coming from Kenseth's team about that restart. What cost Brad the race occurred on his next-to-last pit stop when he slid in too far, and the short delay on the pit stop that followed dropped him to eighth or ninth place. That forced their hand on the final stop to take on only right side tires, which in turn, cost him the victory. The obvious advantage in experience that the #48 team has is showing up again, just as it did three weeks ago when the #2 team made the mistake of not filling the car at Charlotte, which resulted in Brad running out sooner than expected, and just as it showed two years ago when they beat Denny Hamlin and Kevin Harvick, not because they had the superior car, but rather because they had the experience and know-how. I've always said that in championship situations, if you have evenly matched teams, and the 2 and 48 teams are evenly matched, as were the 11, 29, and 48 teams in 2010, and as was the case with Tony Stewart and Carl Edwards last year, ALWAYS go with the more expericenced participant, because they're not likely to make the critical mistakes, and the more experienced entrant is most likely to know how to win, which is so important in a situation like this. How many times have we seen a driver or team that have not been in a championship situation crack under pressure? We've now seen it twice in the last four races with the #2 team, and Brad's mistake today most likely cost him the title this year. Brad Keselowski has thrown away not one, but two almost sure victories in the last four races, and that's likely going to haunt him the rest of his career, because I don't think he'll ever get this close again. Actually, Jeff Gordon, unlike at most high-speed tracks this year, appeared to have the fastest car in the second half of the race today, but after leaving him for most of the Chase, the Jeff Gordon voodoo doll with the pin in the accelerator foot returned, this time in the form of a flat tire that he never recovered from. The caution came out three laps later, and he never appeared in the top ten again. But how strange was this race? Drivers like Travis Kvapil, Casey Mears, and Danica Patrick all finished on the lead lap, with Danica's surprising run having a great deal of unexpected impact on Brad Keselowski's race, and Trevor Bayne even led during pit stops under green with a damaged car that was close to undriveable. And by the way, what was Carl Edwards thinking on that restart? By getting on the brakes, he sent two cars, Montoya and Labonte into the garage area for 45+ laps apiece, and caused his own supposed quasi-teammate (Bayne) to run into the back of him, damaging all four cars. 403. Mr X posted: 11.04.2012 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, I'm not affended at all by Jimmie beating Brad to the line on the final restart, not because I particularly like Jimmie, I don't, but mostly because I think that is a bullshit rule. I think that there is a clear difference between jumping the restart and simply getting a better restart. I agree with some of the rules that go with double file restarts, for example I agree with not changing lanes until you reach the line, however I think that the rule regarding the leader being the first to the line is a load of crap. Once the green flag waves, the race is on, if the leader spins his tires or has a little trouble getting going why does the rest of the field and specifically the second place driver have to back up to the leaders pace? On the final restart neither Jimmie nor Brad jumped, Brad just spun his tires, and Jimmie didn't, and regardless of what the rule says, I don't Jimmie should have to relent because of Brad's mistake. 404. Mr X posted: 11.04.2012 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I don't think that Jimmie should have to relent because of Brad's mistake. 405. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I was more upset with Johnson's whining about Brad's previous restart and the fact that NASCAR didn't penalize Johnson after penalizing Elliott Sadler for a similar infraction at Indy in August, more than I was upset that Johnson slightly beat Brad to the start/finish line. I wouldn't have penalized him because like you said, it was close as he didn't beat him by much. But at the same time, if you're going to penalize one guy for violating the rules, you have to be consistent across the board, and NASCAR didn't do that. I'm reminded of the 2011 Daytona 500 as another example of NASCAR "picking and choosing" when to hand down penalties. As we all know, David Ragan changed lanes on the 2nd to last restart and moved in front of Trevor Bayne, which resulted in a penalty because he changed lanes before the start/finish line. Yet, video footage shows that throughout the race, several drivers, including Dale Earnhardt, Jr., Ryan Newman, Carl Edwards, and even Ragan himself, changed lanes earlier in that same race and weren't penalized. And of course, NASCAR penalizing Regan Smith at Talladega '08 when he passed Tony Stewart below the yellow line after being forced "out of bounds", yet didn't penalize Dale Jr. five years earlier when he passed Matt Kenseth in a similar move, albeit not on the last lap. While these infractions are all different, they each should be handled the same way and be charged across the board. So for me, it's more about the lack of integrity by the sport that bothers me than the penalty itself. As for the jam-up on the restart that sent Labonte and Montoya to the garage and damaged Trevor Bayne's car, I must admit I didn't see who slowed down on the restart as I was focusing more on Montoya tearing his splitter more than who caused the jam-up. So I can't speak out against Carl Edwards for making a mistake because I didn't see it. But what I did notice was that Kyle Busch, who restarted 3rd on that restart, didn't get up to speed like the cars around him. And since he didn't get up to speed as well and he too was in the inside line, the same line that Edwards, Labonte, Montoya, and Bayne restarted from, I wonder if maybe Kyle's slow restart had something to do with that incident on the restart. I forgot to mention this earlier, but since you mentioned her, I noticed that whether it was Danica's fault or if it was Brad's fault, one of them seemed to mess up on their pit entry on several caution period pit stops. The first one we didn't see on camera, but after the second incident when Danica didn't pull up far enough in her pit stall, Paul Wolfe said over the radio that he talked to her crew chief about that and didn't understand why she made the same mistake again. Then of course, Brad made a crucial mistake the third time by locking up the front wheels and sliding too deep in his pit box. So it seems like Brad had three bad pit stops and all three times Danica played a part in it. The third time wasn't Danica's fault as it was Brad's fault that he slid too far into his pit box, but it sounds like there was some tension between the two sides as the first two times she didn't go too far into her pit box. While Brad didn't have to back up to get around her, he and Paul were a little frustrated that she didn't pull up far enough twice, the second time coming after Paul talked to her crew chief Ryan Pemberton. Now I'm not saying that she did it on purpose the second time, even though her satellite teammate is the current points leader who is battling Brad for the championship, but it is something to look for in the next two races as to who has pit stalls around Brad. I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally selected the pit stall in front of Brad for that very reason. 406. Paul posted: 11.04.2012 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Tire carrier, not tire changer. 407. murb posted: 11.05.2012 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "because I don't think he'll ever get this close again." That's interesting, because I see Brad as a force to be reckoned with for several years to come. Next year might be a little bit of a question mark with the uncertainty of how their move to Ford will turn out. But I think it is pretty clear that he and Paul Wolfe rival Jimmie and Chad for "Best Driver/Crew Chief Combo" in the Cup Series. They've proved it time and time again over the past two years with their laid back approach and their ability to not panic in situations like what happened to them today. And who knows? They are only 7 points back. Jimmie should be good at Phoenix, but I'm expecting Brad to be equally as good with his success that he has had at the oddball type tracks, and the fact that he also had a solid top five at Phoenix in the spring race. If Brad hangs right with the 48 next week, I still think he has a fantastic shot at the title at Homestead, considering how the 48 has never had to actually "earn it" at Homestead (2010 is debatable because they ran really well, but in a nutshell, Denny and Mike Ford handed them the title). So even though we've been bitching about how Jimmie is probably going to win again, it really isn't over until it's over. 408. RaceFanX posted: 11.05.2012 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin Harvick recovers from the incident where the skydiver damaged his car before the race to finish in the top-10. In case anyone reading this years down the road the reason the skydiver had a sandbag was so that he could decend in with the state flag of Texas flying beneath him, the sandbag hit the driver's door of Harvick's car and dented it so they team had to roll the car beack to the garage briefly to fix the damage before retaking their place on the grid. NASCAR was understanding to the incident and allowed the repairs to take place without penalty. 409. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't you guys love it when you post a comment and it doesn't show up right away? My comment from post 406 was made as a correction to a post I made about a minute before that, but it seems to have been lost in cyberspace for the time being. This has happened to me in the past, and it'll probably show up around 6 or 7 tomorrow morning. 410. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2012 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, as long as Brad drives Roger Penske's #2 car, this will be his best shot at the championship because Penske's NASCAR teams have never been consistently of championship caliber. They weren't in the 70s with Bobby Allison and Dave Marcis, they weren't when Rusty Wallace drove it, they weren't when Kurt Busch drove for Penske, and they more than likely won't be in the future either. In fact, this year marks Penske's first serious run at the championship since 1994, which gives you an indication of the fact that Penske has never really made strong runs at the NASCAR championship. And if history is any indication, the #2 team may be in for a long season next year. We may not hear a great deal from Brad until 2014, at the earliest, if he doesn't win the title. History says that. And Penske's history in NASCAR also says that this may be his final truly serious run at the championship. Penske's NASCAR operation, not Brad Keselowski or Paul Wolfe, his crew chief, will be what hold them back in the future. And as for the restart rules, I've never agreed with the rule that says that the leader must aways be the first across the line. In fact, if that were true at Indy in the 80s, Kevin Cogan, and not Bobby Rahal wins the 1986 Indianapolis 500, because Rahal beat Cogan to the line on that critical restart at the start of the 199th lap. And I've always thought that rule about changing lanes on the restart was a bad one. In fact, I'm surprised there haven't been team racing tactics with one drive intentionally getting a bad restart, just to hold a line up, while a teammate in the other line pulls away. And I mentioned that when Jimmie and Kyle complained about Brad jumping the next-to-last restart, that they didn't have a leg to stand on, because they were right there. In fact, that played right into the hands of the top four of Keselowski, Johnson, Busch, and Matt Kenseth, and although we heard complaints from Johnson and Busch, we never heard any complaints coming from Kenseth. ad Brad beat them by a considerable margin, my opinion on that would be different, and NASCAR is not going to make a call on that unless it's obvious. For instance, when the penalized David Ragan for switching lanes at Daytona last year, Ragan switched some 50-75 yards prior to the S/F line, so it was an obvious call to make. Like Rodger Ward once said, "if a guy's leading the race, you'd better be damn sure that you're right if you're going to throw the black flag at him". He said that in reference to the oiling controversy in the 1963 Indianapolis 500 involving race winner Parnelli Jones, but that goes for just about any race. So NASCAR is going to be lenient toward race leaders when something like that is close, but when it's obvious, they have no choice but to make the call. And Paul, how could the #10 team possibly know that, as slow as Danica has been in the Cup races she's run all year, that she was going to be on the lead lap all day. That was just a case of bad luck for Keselowski in terms of pit location. If this was a normal race, Keselowski would never have had to worry about Patrick pitting right in front of her, because she would have been laps down and not a factor on Brad's pit stops, since they would have pitted on different caution flag laps. But because Danica ran far better than expected, she became a factor on Brad's pit stops, much to the surprise of everyone. 411. Scott B posted: 11.05.2012 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other developments, EGR is reported to be switching to Hendrick engines next season. The slow downward spiral toward one engine supplier per manufacturer continues. 412. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 1:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well cjs, there's always the possibility of a caution occurring early in the race while she's still on the lead lap, and all the leader pit under that caution. But that's beside the point. Further more, if they're surprised that a driver that has run 9 Cup races in satellite equipment from the best team in the sport would be on the lead lap, they have problems to begin with. And since this is a speed track, as long as she has speed and the cautions fall at the right times, she doesn't have to worry about staying on the lead lap. Heck, as you mentioned before, Casey Mears, Travis Kvapil, and a damaged Trevor Bayne all finished on the lead lap and in front of her, so let's not get all crazy about her finishing on the lead lap considering how much better her equipment is than two of those cars, with the third car belonging to a single-car team that was damaged midway through the race. Secondly, she has to be prepared to be pitting on the same lap as the leaders if she plans on running a full-time Cup schedule next season. This is supposed to be a learning year for her, and part of the learning process includes learning how to make a pit stop without interfering with the cars in pit stalls in front of and behind yours, and twice in the race she messed up by not driving far enough into her pit stall. I hope this is isn't a frequent occurrence for her because the second time she did that, Brad almost took out her rear tire carrier trying to avoid running into her car because she didn't pull up far enough into her pit stall. She can't be doing this, especially twice after being warned about it after the first time, all next season because there's going to be races where she does run on the lead lap, such as the restrictor plate tracks, road courses, and speed tracks like Texas and Michigan, and she can't be making these rookie mistakes every time she's on the lead lap. Saying that her team had no idea she would be on the lead lap is irrelevant. Kvapil and Mears finished on the lead lap in slower cars than her's and they had no problems driving into their pit stop without any problems. Plus, when you're in the best equipment in the sport, you shouldn't be rewarded for finishing on the lead lap as if you accomplished something important. That's like congratulating Steve Wallace for finishing 11th in the Nationwide race earlier this year in a Roush car with a Cup pit crew. She had too many advantages in this race with her car and team being better than others who finished on the lead lap that beat her, and so I don't think saying that her team didn't know she would be on the lead lap is a good alibi for her making two errors that could have hurt Brad during the course of the race, with the second error coming after being warned about the first one. 413. JP88 posted: 11.05.2012 - 2:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a joke...I mean how many times can a caution come out for Jimmie??? For sure that Horseshoe is still lodged in there...please come out on top Brad. 414. 10andJoe posted: 11.05.2012 - 2:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One word: blech. 415. Bronco posted: 11.05.2012 - 2:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see Jimmie win. Hopefully this be the start of another incredible 4 race win streak like in 2007 and will lock down another championship for him. Jimmie has now led all 8 consecutive Chase races and 9 consecutive overall starting at Richmond. Wish KB was in the chase over Harv (only one top 10 in 8 races) and Truex (hasn't even led a lap in the chase). Thankfully the past two weeks have shown Dale Jr to be back to normal and competitive again. Glad he didn't sit out the rest of the season like some of the armchair doctors were saying. This is his 4th consecutive top 10 at Texas, all with Steve Letarte. Probably AJ Allmendinger's final start of 2012, Regan Smith will take over the #51 next week. 416. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 3:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Glad he didn't sit out the rest of the season like some of the armchair doctors were saying." Some of us, including myself, wanted him to sit out the remainder of the year because a.) there was no point in him coming back because he was basically a mathematical lock to finish 12th in the points after missing two races, and b.) sitting out four months would do wonders for his body and mind, especially after suffering two concussions in a span of six weeks. Ricky Craven came back from a concussion in '98 after sitting out for four months, and went back to the sidelines after four weeks because he came back too early and HMS considered him damaged goods. Sometimes it's better to be safe than sorry, and while Junior has performed better in his first two races back than Craven did 14 years ago, it's utterly meaningless for him to be back for the final four races considering how he has nothing to gain by doing so. I don't know about you, but I actually want to see drivers at full strength and in good health, regardless of how many races they have to miss due to injury or health reasons. This may just be a game, but people's lives are on the line in this type of game. Junior did the right thing by seeing Dr. Jerry Petty who advised him to sit out a couple races, but I don't like the fact that he came back after only missing two weeks because sometimes it's better to be safe than sorry with these types of things. He may have gotten the approval to return to the race track, but he's doing so by risking injury in four utterly meaningless races because as I said earlier, he can't gain any positions in the standings. So call us "armchair doctors" all you like, but I for one don't like the idea of a driver suffering two concussions and only missing two races because of it, then returning for the final four races when they mean nothing towards the championship. Having Junior sit out for four months until Daytona would have done wonders for him and would have allowed him to recharge the batteries and get focused on the 2013 season. His season at this point is over, and running these final four races isn't going to change that. In the NFL, the Pittsburgh Steelers have basically made both James Harrison and Troy Polamalu inactive for the first half of the season, though I understand that Harrison is playing now, because they didn't want to risk those two re-injuring themselves when they weren't at full strength. For a team in a tough division to scratch its two best defensive players shows that they really care about those players' long-term health and that they have the confidence in their other players to win without them. Since Junior isn't even the best driver at HMS, and seeing what the Pittsburgh Steelers have been doing with their best players who have been hurt most of the season, it begs the question why would HMS put Junior back on the track when at this point his season is over? I'm sure sponsorship and/or fan support may have led to this "two weeks off" decision, but I still think that's a poor excuse for risking a driver's health. 417. Bronco posted: 11.05.2012 - 6:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Some of us, including myself, wanted him to sit out the remainder of the year because a.) there was no point in him coming back because he was basically a mathematical lock to finish 12th in the points after missing two races," The bigger picture here is not his final points standing, (which is guaranteed to be 12th anyway) rather it's Dale Jr's 2013 sponsorship. It has already been announced that Pepsi is drastically cutting back their sponsorship after this year, (despite this being Dale Jr's best season representing their brand). In order for him to gain a new sponsor for next year, it definitely makes sense for Dale Jr to return to the track and prove that the concussions haven't affected his driving ability. By running in the top 10 all day long at Martinsville before getting spun, and by finishing 7th yesterday he's proving that he is healthy and fit to race and that he hasn't missed a step. Having Regan Smith finish out the year in the #88 isn't going to help attract sponsorship. Additionally, be returning to the car he gets a chance to finish the year strong and improve on that in 2013. If Dale Jr were to sit out until the 2013 Daytona 500, that would a) raise a lot of questions during the off season about he'll perform when he returns and b) damage his self-confidence by having to wait 4 months to get back in the car. 418. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 7:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a picture I found from one of Brad's pit exits as he drives around Danica's car. I believe this was from the second time that she didn't drive up far enough in her pit stall. As you can see, the rear of her car is only about a foot into her pit stall and Brad nearly misses her and actually clipped her rear tire changer while leaving his pit stall. http://photos.speedtv.com/gallery/CUP_Texas_Chase_Race_1112/slideshow/AAA_Texas_500/011xfdO99WaGr 419. Smiff_2 posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not trying to go all 'TMI' on you guys, but....I was so dejected after the finish of this one, my girlfriend IMMEDIATELY had sex with me just to make me feel better. THAT'S how crushed I was... And I'd like to say right now that that one single statement over the radio by Brad was one of the purest, most from-the-heart things I've heard in a long time... "I refuse to lose this damn title!" That says it all, folks. THAT is why *I'm* a Brad Keselowski fan. (And I *KNOW* that DSFF and Cooper had the same smiles on their faces that *I* had on mine when I heard that.) 2 races to go, Brad! You can DO this, man! I believe!!! 420. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) First Paul, everyone, myself included, was surprised that Danica was on the lead lap the entire race, except for that first long green flag run, so Brad's crew were not the only ones kept off-guard by Danica's stronger-than-normal run. And as for Danica not driving far enough into her pits, the question there becomes, who was pitting right in front of her? It may be that if she drove further into her pit stall, that she may not be able to get out of her pit stall. That's why during caution flag pit stops, most drivers stop at or near the back of their pit stalls, so they can get out, so she wasn't doing anything that was out of the ordinary. Brad just simply was driving too deep into his pits, and doing exactly that on the next-to-last pit stop is what cost him the race, because he had a better car than Jimmie did, but because of that mistake, they were forced into taking right sides on their last stop, which put him at a disadvantage on the final restarts. That plus the fact that Brad put himself on the inside when the outside is a much better place to be on the front row on the restarts because you don't have the air trying to suck the car around. 421. Kenny posted: 11.05.2012 - 9:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I swear even after I had dinner I still felt like shit lastnight I went to bed and I felt like I had to puke again I've never felt this bad after a race and as I said before the last race to upset me was the fall talladega race of 2006 but this tops that race by a mile 422. Cooper posted: 11.05.2012 - 10:06 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Brad is going to win this championship. I know it. The kid has too much determination to lose. Jimmie had to get repeated attempts to beat Brad with better tires. Brad has a huge advantage at Homestead. Brad has to be within either 3 or 5 points leaving Phoenix. Btw if you rewatch the spring race, Brad went at it with Jimmie for alot of the laps near the end. Prove the haters wrong. Brad has done this his whole career. Two more races and Brad owes many people a bunch of middle fingers. If Brad wins championship, there will be a huge party on his race page. Haters not welcome. 423. David posted: 11.05.2012 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smiff, WHY did you post that?!?! 424. David posted: 11.05.2012 - 10:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know what the ultimate irony is in this Chase? This year, the driver who has benefitted the most from the points reset is...Jeff Gordon. He has scored the 13th-most points this season, but he is currently in a tie for fifth in the standings. 425. JRacingFast posted: 11.05.2012 - 11:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) So I decided since everyones bummed out about the finsh and the race....lets all rememeber why were here with good ole Cledus T Judds song "i love NASCAR" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LLvfpGpEyg 426. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.05.2012 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn Smiff, I envy you. That would have made me feel a lot better! One day later, the bitter taste of disappointment is slowly subsiding, VERY slowly. Instead I must follow my driver's lead and be optimistic and REFUSE TO LOSE (I was tortured by that phrase throughout the late 90's, I am gonna use it to my advantage now). Either way, he is the story and the driver of the year. There is a ton to be proud of in being a Brad fan. And I feel great about the future of the Blue Deuce. Next year should be a bit of a transition to Ford, but then again EVERYONE will be transitioning to a new car. This ain't your Daddy's Penske South. They have finally quit trying to run the place like an Indy Car team and handed the keys to the guys in the trenches. And at least Brad, his team, and his fans can look themselves in the mirror and know they did it the right way. No long LONG list of cheating violations, no stomping off like a little bitch from interviews like Jimmie did at Michigan, no whining to NASCAR over the radio like JJ at Chicago and this race, then turning right around and breaking a rule yourself. No turning your back on your humble roots and hanging out with movie stars in Manhattan. No owner with a felony conviction (the NFL wouldn't let Rick own a team, see Eddie DeBartolo). And as for JJ beating Brad to the line, as many have mentioned before me, that in itself I have no problem with. I have a problem with JJ being a little bitch on the radio about Brad "jumping" a restart when he restarted in the exact correct position. If he is going to bring that much attention to to the restarts, then that is the time to have integrity. If you are gonna implore that others follow the rules to the strictest letter of the law, then you should do the same yourself. But again that involves integrity and we are talking about the 48 team so we can forget that. And secondly, the NWide title is tied cause Elliott Sadler got penalized for a similar infraction in the Indy race handing the win to (ironically) Brad K. The difference? Brad should NOT have won that race and he should have won this race if NASCAR had any clue whatsoever. But as Cooper has said, it is time for optimism and hope now. Am I still pissed off over this one? Yes, but it is time for us to keep hoping, to keep BELIEVING. Brad has the right attitude, wd need to follow. He is the Man of the year either way. I am one proud Brad fan. 427. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 11:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those are fair points, Bronco. But going back to my Steelers reference, I'd rather take his long-term health than risk putting him back on the track too soon. Plus, being away from the track would give him more opportunities to look for sponsorship to replace Pepsi. David Reutimann will drive for a new team this weekend. His number will be #44 and the team's name is Xxxtreme Motorsports, with the first three letters describing Smiff_2's night last night ;) cjs, the car who pitted in front of Danica was Greg Biffle, who had an opening in front of his pit stall. Generally, drivers with openings in front of their pit stalls pull up as far as possible because they don't have to worry about being clipped from behind or dodging a car in front. I don't know how far into his pit stall Biffle was going, but if he pulled up far enough like I expect him to, then Danica has no excuse for not pulling up far enough. I posted a picture on post 418 (that I posted last night, but didn't show up until this morning) that shows Danica is only about a foot into her pit stall as Brad tried to dodge her and actually clipped her rear tire carrier in the process. 428. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 11:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Instead I must follow my driver's lead and be optimistic and REFUSE TO LOSE (I was tortured by that phrase throughout the late 90's, I am gonna use it to my advantage now)" As an excuse to use another Star Wars reference, welcome to the Dark Side. :) 429. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.05.2012 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As an excuse to use another Star Wars reference, welcome to the Dark Side. :)" Nooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! :) "His number will be #44 and the team's name is Xxxtreme Motorsports, with the first three letters describing Smiff_2's night last night ;)" I'm serious, where can I find a girl like that? Every girlfriend I've ever had, when I'd get angry about a sporting event, they would look at me like I was 5 years old and say "it's just a game" then be disgusted with me for a while. 430. David posted: 11.05.2012 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DadGUM! I just found out that Jimmie Johnson's win last night was the 700th for Chevrolet. I knew it was coming, but it totally snuck up on me. Why does Johnson get all these achievements? 431. Smiff_2 posted: 11.05.2012 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You guys have NO idea....this girl's incredible!! She's actually WATCHING the races with me! She'd never had any interest in NASCAR until we started going out. Last night, she was cheering Brad on and watching me freak out on the couch over the head-to-head duel between the up-and-comer (and my fave) and 5-time (my least fave)...she *got* how intense it was for me. And she enjoyed it herself :) So when it was all said and done, and Jimmie was the victor, she could see me and my reaction and she just started making out with me cause she wanted me to feel better. How great IS that? But anyways, so yeah, we made out and it just kept progressing. The best part was, I didn't have to hear a single word of Jimmie's victory lane interview ;) 432. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2012 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you say that the Nationwide points race is tied because of the penalty handed to Elliott Sadler at IMS on that final restart, which I agree was grossly unfair because he was pushed across the line ahead of Keselowski. However, I disagree with your assessment on why the points race is tied. The points race is tied, not because of that bad call on Sadler's penalty, or the points deductions he got for the tech infractions earlier this year, but rather because of all the points that Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. has thrown away due to careless mistakes on the track. I estimate that Stenhouse has thrown away some 50-70 points (or about two full races worth of points) due to careless mistakes on the track. As Paul and I have mentioned, a guy like Trevor Bayne, who doesn't seem to make nearly the mistakes that Ricky makes, might already have the title clinched or about to clinch the title by now because he deosn't figure to make the dumb mistakes that Stenhouse makes and continues to make, though he did drive an error-free race at Texas Saturday. Sadler also got conservative on a restart Saturday that allowed Stenhouse to get in front of him when Sadler had a better car, and a bad set of tires at the most innopportune time didn't Sadler, either. 433. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree cjs. If a more careful drive like Trevor Bayne was driving that #6 car this season, I think he would have this title clinched. Maybe not mathematically clinched with two races to go, but certainly he would have the advantage over Sadler at this point. If Stenhouse loses this title, you can look at his dumb mistakes at Dover, Montreal (although I can somewhat forgive him on that one because he was going for the lead on a track that he sucks on), and the 2nd Kentucky race that loses him the title. That said, you can't deny that NASCAR made a huge blunder by penalizing Sadler when he beat (ironically) Brad to the line on a restart at Indy. While Stenhouse has done everything he can to lose this championship, NASCAR basically handed him a life preserver by penalizing Sadler and reducing the amount of points Stenhouse would have lost from that race to Sadler. Had NASCAR not penalized Sadler on that restart, Sadler gains anywhere from 14 to 18 points (assuming that he finishes in 1st or 2nd place) from that race and has a 14-18 point lead over Stenhouse with two races to go instead of being tied for the points lead. If Stenhouse loses the title, it'll be because of self-inflicted errors. If Sadler loses the title, it'll be because of NASCAR robbing him of a great finish at Indy and tossing Stenhouse a life preserver in the process. I will say though, regardless of how the Nationwide or Truck championships are decided, I'll be either happy or content with the champion. If Sadler wins the Nationwide title or if Buescher wins the Truck title, I'll be happy because I like those guys. If Stenhouse or Ty Dillon win their respective titles, I'll be content because while I have mixed feelings for them, I can say that they are really good drivers and would have each earned their championships in their own ways (Stenhouse by winning, Dillon by being consistent). But it's the Sprint Cup championship that I'm now most passionate about because one guy is among my five favorite drivers in the sport (Brad), while the other guy is among my five least favorite drivers in the sport (Jimmie). This is the first time since '07 that I'm truly pulling for a driver to win the championship (which ironically had another one of my top five favorites against Jimmie). Last year I was more rooting against Carl than I was pulling Stewart, and doing so almost turned me into a Stewart fan when he won the title (thank God that moment has passed). Now I'm all in with Brad winning the title. Knowing full well that 2013 could be a transitional year as Penske not only moves to Ford, but moves to Roush-Yates engines (which concerns me more than their manufacturer change), this might be Brad's last chance to win give the Captain his first Cup title for another year, knowing 2013 could be an up-and-down year. But I have faith in Brad to get it done on the track, and I have faith in Paul to get it done in the pits. Mark my words, if Ambrose doesn't cut a tire and hit the wall on lap 311, Brad wins the race on fuel mileage and Jimmie either runs out or slows down to snail's pace because he is terrible in fuel mileage races. If Phoenix or Homestead come down to fuel mileage, the order on top of the standings could be flipped very quickly. 434. David posted: 11.05.2012 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I will say though, regardless of how the Nationwide or Truck championships are decided, I'll be either happy or content with the champion. If Sadler wins the Nationwide title or if Buescher wins the Truck title, I'll be happy because I like those guys. If Stenhouse or Ty Dillon win their respective titles, I'll be content because while I have mixed feelings for them, I can say that they are really good drivers and would have each earned their championships in their own ways (Stenhouse by winning, Dillon by being consistent)." Wow. That is EXACTLY how I feel about it. 435. Daniel posted: 11.05.2012 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Phoenix entry list: -T.J. Bell in the #32 -David Reutimann in the #44 -Regan Smith in the #51 436. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad will running double-duty this weekend. This will be his 3rd double-duty weekend in the Chase. In his previous two, he went on to win at Chicago, but finished 11th at Charlotte, his only non-top ten finish of the Chase, so this could be a hit-or-miss weekend. He finished 5th at Phoenix earlier this season after running double-duty, so hopefully he bests that finish next weekend. 437. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Travis Pastrana is currently in the midst of finalizing a deal to drive for Roush full-time in 2013, with an official announcement supposed to come in the upcoming weeks. Pastrana is said to have half of his schedule filled out next year with sponsorship, but it's said that Roush will commit to a full schedule once the deal is finalized regardless of Pastrana's sponsorship situation. My guess is that Roush's current deal with NOS Energy is what's preventing Pastrana from being fully sponsored, as I don't expect Red Bull to sponsor him if NOS Energy is a Roush sponsor. It sounds like Pastrana will be driving a renumbered #99 car (not sure whether this number replaces #6 or #60), with Trevor Bayne slated to drive the other car full-time, giving Roush two drivers running for the Nationwide championship next season. This is a great move by Roush as they need a 2nd team to stay in contention for the Nationwide title next season, especially since JGR will have two fully sponsored teams running for the championship as well, plus having a sponsored driver like Pastrana is good for Trevor because now he'll have a teammate to bounce information with and increased his chances of running the full schedule regardless of his sponsorship situation. Also, Brian Vickers will drive the JGR #20 in the Nationwide Series this weekend, so it looks like he's getting a jump-start on next season as it's almost a done deal that he'll drive for JGR full-time next season. 438. Scott B posted: 11.05.2012 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^ More likely, Roush will have one guy (Bayne) contending for the NNW championship, and one guy whose ego exceeds his talent (Pastrana) destroying cars on a regular basis, but bringing in enough sponsorship money to pay for it. ;) 439. Talon64 posted: 11.05.2012 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Travis Pastrana is currently in the midst of finalizing a deal to drive for Roush full-time in 2013, with an official announcement supposed to come in the upcoming weeks. Pastrana is said to have half of his schedule filled out next year with sponsorship, but it's said that Roush will commit to a full schedule once the deal is finalized regardless of Pastrana's sponsorship situation. My guess is that Roush's current deal with NOS Energy is what's preventing Pastrana from being fully sponsored, as I don't expect Red Bull to sponsor him if NOS Energy is a Roush sponsor. It sounds like Pastrana will be driving a renumbered #99 car (not sure whether this number replaces #6 or #60), with Trevor Bayne slated to drive the other car full-time, giving Roush two drivers running for the Nationwide championship next season. This is a great move by Roush as they need a 2nd team to stay in contention for the Nationwide title next season, especially since JGR will have two fully sponsored teams running for the championship as well, plus having a sponsored driver like Pastrana is good for Trevor because now he'll have a teammate to bounce information with and increased his chances of running the full schedule regardless of his sponsorship situation." For what it's worth, the #43 RPM car is pretty much a teammate to the #6 since they both use Roush equipment and share technical info. Although that's probably helped the #43 more than the #6. Jimmie beating Brad pissed me off, but he only gained 5 points over Keselowski. A 7 point gap means Keselowski and the #2 are still in control of their own destiny and can beat the #48 by outrunning them. Something they did for the most part at Texas, which makes me confident about Homestead. Even if Keselowski and Wolfe fall short, they've had probably the most successful first 2 seasons for a driver/CC combo since Jimmie and Chad in 2002 and 2003. KeseWolfe just need to have a cookies-&-milk meeting with Roger Penske after 2014 and they'll have the 2015 championship in the bag! 440. 10andJoe posted: 11.05.2012 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ScottB - Pastrana has actually been pretty impressive this year. 441. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2012 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon64, if Keselowski and Wolfe were teamed up with another organization, like Gibbs, Childress, or even Roush, I'd be a little more inclined to agree with you, but not Penske. There's a reason Penske's never won the NASCAR championship, and that's because NASCAR's not, nor has it ever been his main focus in racing. As I mentioned, this is Penske's first serious run at a NASCAR championship in 18 years, and there's a reason for that. If Keselowski and Wolfe don't win the title this year, they may never get close again, as long as they're with Penske. They'll make the Chase again, but I doubt they'll make another serious run at a championship with Penske. And also, I think that Roush apparently signing Travis Pastrana could actually be bad news for Trevor Bayne because he can't find sponsorship. What Scott B says about Bayne running for the championship while Pastrana learns the ropes is something I hope passes, but I doubt will. What may happen instead is that either Bayne and Pastrana end up sharing one car at Roush with the money Pastrana's bringing in keeping the team afloat, or just having Pastrana run the car full-time and letting Bayne go, as much as I think Roush (and the rest of the racing world) hates that idea. I say that because Bayne simply can not find sponsorship, and Roush needs sponsorship, which Pastrana provides enough of to keep one car running, and what I expect may happen is that Pastrana will run full-time, and either Bayne will only run a similar schedule to this year if he can't find sponsorship, or Roush may have Bayne share the ride with his Cup drivers. 442. Talon64 posted: 11.05.2012 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson becomes the 8th driver all time to reach 60 career Sprint Cup Series wins with his 5th win of 2012, tying him with Brad Keselowski and Denny Hamlin for the series lead. In fact, Jimmie Johnson is currently tied for the series lead in wins (5) and poles (4) while leading outright in top 5's (18), top 10's (24), laps led (1,719) and average finish (9.8). The last driver to finish in at least a tie for the lead in all those categories in a season was Cale Yarborough in 1978: 10 wins, 23 top 5's, 24 top 10's, 8 poles, 3,587 laps led and a 6.0 avg fin, while also leading in laps completed at 9,758 and avg start at 3.6. It's Johnson's 22nd career Chase win, twice as much as the next best driver (Tony Stewart with 11, although 3 of them were when he didn't make the Chase). That's a winning percentage of .250 in the Chase. His 4.9 avg fin in this year's Chase would tie the record set by Carl Edwards last season. Johnson ties Jeff Burton for 20th all time with his 248th career top 10 finish. Johnson gets his 2nd win in 19 starts at Texas (9 top 5's, 9.3 avg fin in 19 starts), and his 17th career win on 1.5 mile tracks. For what it's worth, Brad Keselowsk is tied for the most wins (5), T-2nd in top 5's (13), T-2nd in top 10's (22), 4th in laps led (725) and 2nd in average finish (10.1) this season. Keselowski picks up his 5th career runner-up finish and 3rd runner-up finish of the season. But if neither Keselowski or Johnson win another race in 2012, then Johnson's guaranteed the tiebreaker since even if Keselowski ties Johnson in runner-up finishes (needs them in both remaining races), then Johnson would win based on having more 3rd place finishes (3 vs. 1). It's Keselowski's first top 5 in 5 races, but his 16th top 10 in the last 18 races (3 wins, 9 top 5's, 6.28 average finish). Keselowski qualifies 8th for a 3rd straight race at Texas, and picks up both his first top 5 and top 10 in 9 career starts there (22.7 avg fin). Kyle Busch finishes in the top 5 for the 5th time in 8 Chase races, 2nd most of any driver (Johnson with 6 has the most); he's scored the 5th most points in the Chase, but is -56 on Jimmie Johnson who's 1st in points scored. Kyle's 91st career top 5 moves him past Kevin Harvick into sole possession of 40th all time, and just 1 behind Carl Edwards for 39th. His 139th career top 10 moves him past G.C. Spencer into 50th. Kyle gets his 5th top 5 (three of them are 3rd place finishes) in 15 career starts at TMS (14.9 avg fin), but it's just his 2nd top 10 in the last 7 races there. Matt Kenseth's 13 top 5's this season are his most since he had 13 in 2007. Top 5's in each of the last 2 races of the season would equal his career-high of 15, set in 2006. After starting the Chase with a 22.3 avg fin in the first 3 races, Kenseth now has 2 wins and 3 top 5's in the last 5 races (6.8 avg fin to go from 12th to 5th in points). Kenseth finishes in the top 5 for a 5th consecutive race at TMS, and picks up his 13th top 10 in the last 15 races there (1 win, 11 top 5's, 5.5 average finish). Tony Stewart finishes 5th for the 2nd time in the last 3 races, his best finish and his only top 5's in the Chase; he had 4 wins through the first 8 Chase races in 2011 on his way to the championship. It's just Stewart's 6th top 5 (includes 2 wins) in 22 career starts in Texas (12.7 avg fin), but his 2nd straight top 5 in this race. Clint Bowyer is tied with Johnson and Keselowski for the most top 10's in the Chase with 7, picking up his 4th straight top 6 finish and 5th overall in the Chase. His 8 top 10's at Texas are tied with Richmond and Martinsville for his most at any track (12.8 avg fin in 14 starts), and has 4 top 10's in his last 5 starts there. Dale Earnhardt Jr. gets just his 2nd top 10 in the 6 Chase races that he's run this season, and his first in the 2 races since he returned from his concussion. But despite missing 2 races, he needs just 1 top 10 in the last 2 races to have 20+ top 10's in a season for the 3rd time in 13 seasons in Cup. It's his 5th top 10 in the last 6 races at Texas (7th is his best finish), and his 12th top 10 in 21 career starts there (13.6 avg fin). Kurt Busch finishes in the top 10 for just the 3rd time this season, but it's his first in 4 races with Furniture Row Racing (17.25 avg fin, versus 25.0 in 29 starts with Phoenix Racing this season). It's his 12th top 10 in 20 career Texas starts (14.1 avg fin) but just his 2nd in the last 5 races. Kevin Harvick picks up his first top 10 in 8 Chase races, but his 7th finish of 16th or better. Texas becomes the 8th different track that Harvick has at least 10 top 10's at (12.5 avg fin in 20 starts), and it's his 5th top 10 in the last 7 races there. Greg Biffle finishes 10th for a 2nd straight race, but it's his 4th top 10 in the last 5 races. Now Biffle needs just 1 more top 10 this year to have 20+ for just the 2nd time in 10 full seasons in Cup. Biffle has the longest active top 10 streak at Texas at 9 (1 win, 6 top 5's, 5.7 avg fin), representing most of his 11 career top 10's there (15.9 avg fin in 18 starts). 443. Talon64 posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Talon64, if Keselowski and Wolfe were teamed up with another organization, like Gibbs, Childress, or even Roush, I'd be a little more inclined to agree with you, but not Penske. There's a reason Penske's never won the NASCAR championship, and that's because NASCAR's not, nor has it ever been his main focus in racing. As I mentioned, this is Penske's first serious run at a NASCAR championship in 18 years, and there's a reason for that. If Keselowski and Wolfe don't win the title this year, they may never get close again, as long as they're with Penske. They'll make the Chase again, but I doubt they'll make another serious run at a championship with Penske." Given the current state of Indycar, I wouldn't be surprised if Penske's focus hasn't already changed. It certainly will eventually with the way the Hulman board are tanking the series. And especially since Ford should feel more confident in Penske's chances for 2013 than Roush's. Speaking of Ford and Penske, Hornish doesn't even have a contract to drive the #12 Nationwide car next year. If the Pastrana/Roush deal screws Bayne over then I'll bet Ford would try and get Bayne in a Penske car for 2013 to keep him in the fold, since I think Ford has more invested in Bayne than Roush at this point. 444. JG24FanForever posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is a list of Top 5 Nascar Cup series list. Top 5 greatest Restrictor-Plate drivers: 1. Dale Earnhardt 2. Jeff Gordon 3. Tony Stewart 4. Dale Jarrett 5. Dale Earnhardt Jr. Top 5 greatest Southern 500 drivers: 1. Jeff Gordon 2. Herb Thomas 3. Cale Yarborough 4. David Pearson 5. Bobby Allison Top 5 greatest Daytona 500 drivers: 1. Dale Earnhardt 2. Richard Petty 3. Jeff Gordon 4. Cale Yarborough 5. Bobby Allison Top 5 greatest Road-Race drivers: 1. Jeff Gordon 2. Tony Stewart 3. Bobby Allison 4. Dan Gurney 5. Tim Richmond Top 5 greatest Short-Track drivers: 1. Richard Petty 2. Darrell Waltrip 3. Dale Earnhardt 4. Rusty Wallace 5. Jeff Gordon Top 5 greatest Charlotte Motor Speedway drivers: 1. Darrell Waltrip 2. David Pearson 3. Dale Earnhardt 3. Jeff Gordon 3. Jimmie Johnson 3. Bobby Allison Top 5 greatest Dirt-track drivers: 1. Curtis Turner 2. Tim Flock 3. Junior Johnson 4. Richard Petty 5. Herb Thomas Top 5 greatest Qualifiers 1. David Pearson 2. Jeff Gordon 3. Mark Martin 4. Richard Petty 5. Cale Yarborough Top 5 greatest Dominators(Led Most in a race) 1. Jeff Gordon (has Dominated the most races in a season 9 times) 2. Richard Petty (has Dominated the most races in a season 7 times) 3. Cale Yarborough 4. Dale Earnhardt 5. Bobby Allison That's enough for now. 445. Thomas posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR fans everywhere (particularly Johnson haters) now have a new villain: Kasey Kahne. If Kahne doesn't slow down after scraping the wall to bring out the caution, Keselowski wins the race. Cue the channel 2 conspiracy theories. "Hey Kasey, Jimmie really needs a caution to catch back up to Brad to save the championship." "Ok Boss." #13 murb: Here's another title for your list. Kurt Busch: Decrepit Old Has Been 446. JG24FanForever posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Mark Martin was the cause for the final caution that eliminated Bad Brads lead after he had just whipped Jimmie with his inferior two-tires that were ruined on the next restart. I just looked, and it is! so why Kasey Kahne then? 447. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske has changed a lot recently, they are now letting those who actually work on and drive the cars make the bulk of the decisions. Hell, Brad single handedly got Logano hired for the #22 car for next year (not sure why, but that is another story for another day). Stuff gets done over there unlike in the past. I feel really good about their future. 448. cjs3872 posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talon64, I think Penske wanted to hire Bayne last year after releasing Kurt Busch, but when Bayne told Roush about the opportunity, Roush nixed the idea. However, if Bayne did sign with Penske, I wouldn't put it past Penske to try to put Bayne in one of his cars for the Indianapolis 500 someday, and give him a chance to join A.J. Foyt and Mario Andretti as the third driver to win both of American racing's biggest events. Of course, like Bayne, Foyt's Daytona 500 win came with the Wood Brothers (and on February 20, no less). And I mentioned last year about Daytona 500s run on February 20, and the historical impact made by the winners those particular years. The Daytona 500 that have been held on that date were won by Foyt (1972), 4x Daytona 500 winner Cale Yarborough (1977 and 1983), Sterling Marlin (1994 on the way to being the most recent back-to-back Daytona 500 winner), and 3x Daytona 500 winners Dale Jarett (2000), and Jeff Gordon (2005). And let's not forget that February 20th is also racing legend Bobby Unser's birthday. So if history holds true, Bayne may be destined for something big, though what it is, nobody knows. Of course, he has to find sponsorship first. And of course, much like Jimmie Johnson scored Chevrloet's 700th victory at Texas, it was Bayne in the Wood Brothers' #21 car that scored Ford's 600th win, doing so in the 2011 Daytona 500. 449. murb posted: 11.05.2012 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Few things. Smiff, great story, lol. That's all that needs to be said. Pastrana full time with Roush? I'm sort of surprised by this, but then again I'm really not. It will be interesting to see how he does. If he actually dedicates himself to it over the next few years and doesn't get distracted by all of his Nitro Circus/X Games stuff or whatever, then I think eventually he could turn out to be a very good driver. Thomas, "Kurt Busch: Decrepit Old Has-Been" is a great title for the Kurt Busch documentary thing they are airing!!! This was the phrase that he used on Spencer back at Indy in 2002, but now things have come full circle and Kurt is turning into a decrepit old has-been. Isn't it funny how life works? Lastly, I'm just gonna echo what I said last night. I think that Brad Keselowski - Paul Wolfe duo is gonna be around for a long time. 450. ch posted: 11.05.2012 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Corrections: 5 - Great Clips / HendrickCars.com 20 - RedBeacon.com 83 - Burger King / Dr. Pepper 91 - Humphrey Smith Racing 93 - Dr. Pepper (Space) 98 - K-Love 451. Rusty posted: 11.05.2012 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The has-been comment was always stupid from Kurt, Jimmy Spencer was a never-was. 452. Paul posted: 11.05.2012 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't call Jimmy Spencer a "never was". He won two Modified championships and was always a threat to win in the Busch Series during his selective starts. He wasn't a great Cup driver, but he always got the most out of his equipment and had a lot of good results for some otherwise bad teams. Having spent his whole career driving for the likes of Travis Carter, Bobby Allison, Jim Smith, and Junior Johnson after he stopped caring following the divorce, his numbers are pretty impressive. Just because Spencer didn't get the kinds of opportunities like Kurt Busch has in his career, doesn't make him a "never was". If anything, I think he was an overachieved in his NASCAR career. 453. Paul posted: 11.06.2012 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wasn't sure before, but I just read that JGR will be running three full-time Nationwide teams next season; two cars for Elliott Sadler and Brian Vickers, who will be racing for the driver's championship, and a 3rd full-time car to be split between Cup drivers Matt Kenseth and Denny Hamlin, and developmental drivers Darrell Wallace, Jr. and Drew Herring that will be racing for the owner's championship. I knew that the 3rd car would feature that driver lineup, but I didn't know that would be a full-time team until just now. This year JGR has fielded two full-time cars (#11 and #18) and one part-time car (#20), but it looks like all three cars will run the full schedule. My guess is that Wallace and Herring will combine for no more than 14 races so that they each remain eligible for Rookie of the Year in the future, and (unless there are additional changes to their 2013 driver lineup) Kenseth and Hamlin will run no less than 18-19 races (depending on how many races will be on next year's schedule). By the way, I don't know if anyone else was watching Nationwide qualifying on Saturday, but when they were interviewing Denny before his qualifying run, it sounded like he said that next year would be his final year in the Nationwide Series. I could have misheard him, but if that's the case, that's great because it not only means one less Cup driver in the Nationwide Series, but it also implies that either JGR will scrap one of its Nationwide teams for a 4th Cup team or that they're planning on moving one of their developmental drivers up to Nationwide full-time in 2014. I can't remember what his exact quote was, but I have reason to believe that that's what he said because he smiled as he said that. And if there's one thing that Denny likes more than winning, it's not having to run the Nationwide races. 454. MarkMartinFan posted: 11.06.2012 - 7:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did anybody else see where Robin Pemberton said that the restart jump by Jimmie Johnson was so miniscule that they didn't call it? I thought the rule was plain and simple, no beating the leader to the line? Even though Brad Spun his tires, I think Jimmie was still gonna beat him to the line. And Robin Pemberton should know how much those "miniscule" things should hurt. He was Mark Martin's crew chief in 1990 when they got the 46 point penalty that cost them a championship over a non performance enhancing part. Now that I say that, if someone fails tech by a miniscule amount, are they gonna start getting away with it? 455. David posted: 11.06.2012 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two things to mention: First of all, it has been confirmed today what we already suspected: Brian Vickers will drive for Joe Gibbs in the Nationwide Series in 2013. And... Howie Mandel will host the 2012 Sprint Cup Awards. 456. cjs3872 posted: 11.06.2012 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No MarkMartinFan, it's just that there never going to call something when it's that close, because they don't know at the time whether or not they're right. and what if they had black flagged the leader, and the were wrong? That's why I brought up what Rodger Ward said about black flagging the leader, because if they're going to do that, they had better be sure that they're right. Race procedures are much different than pre or post-race technical inspection. Any sanctioning body has to be much more lenient on in-race procedures, unless it's obvious that a driver did something he wasn't supposed to do, while inspection is more cut and dry. There, you're either right or you're not,and the proof is there immeidately, but during the running of a race, there are judgement calls involved, and leniency must be showed, unless it's obvious that a rule is broken, such as jumping a restart. Anything that involves a judgement call is almost always going to be treated with a little leniency, though there are times when more leniency is shown than there should be, but the officials are usually going to err on the conservative side. 457. Jim Davis posted: 11.06.2012 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I thought the rule was plain and simple, no beating the leader to the line?" It's never that plain and simple: Pemberton: "You can't govern the restarts to the transponder, because then you're into regulating someone getting to the line and rolling out of the gas and getting the guy on the outside black-flagged. If anybody thinks those games don't happen, then it's obvious they're not paying attention." As cjs has said, when it's that close there is no way to tell who is the offender even after the fact with replay, etc. That makes it an obvious no call. As Pemberton says, giving the leader the option to get the 2nd place car black flagged is open to abuse to put it mildly. 458. cjs3872 posted: 11.06.2012 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Especially, Jim Davis, when the championship is on the line. Can you imagine a scenario where Kselowski is leading the final race, but is down about seven or eight points to Johnson, who is running second. Keselowski brake-checks the field so that Johnson beats him to the line by so much that a black flag is virtually required, or a situation like what happened in last year's Daytona 500 repeats itself, where the second place drivers backs off so much that it invites the leader to change lanes well before the S/F line, and does so, thus incurring a penalty. Or a case where a driver like Jeff Gordon or Kasey Kahne pushes Keselowski in front of the leader, whoever it may be, prior to the S/F line to force NASCAR's hand to penalize Keselowski, even though he actually didn't do anything wrong. There are just too many ways to manipulate the restart rules, which is another reason why the double file restarts, as they are done now, should be scrapped. 459. hyperacti posted: 11.06.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't like double file restarts either. I wish it would be single-file with lappers in the back. Everyone should have to start in the same line so that everyone gets an equal chance. Sick of seeing other drivers holding my drivers up because there's no where for anyone to go. 460. murb posted: 11.06.2012 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great to see Vickers expectedly getting that NNS ride with JGR. I think it will be good for him to go back down there and sort of rebuild his career, much like Elliott Sadler has. Speaking of Elliott, it's pretty obvious that he will also be full time with JGR in NNS next year. Combining his experience and maturity with the ultra fast race cars that JGR's NNS stable has, I think he may be the odds on favorite to win the championship. I also expect good things from Vickers, but at the same time I'm expecting him to essentially be Elliott's wingman. But overall, I like what JGR is doing with their driver lineup next year. They've added two veterans in Vickers and Elliott and a class act past champion in Matt Kenseth. With as much young talent as they have, these additions are a really smart thing to do. 461. Paul posted: 11.06.2012 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If they're going to do double-file restarts, they should at least keep the previous rule that prevented cars from lining up side-by-side on restarts that came with 10 laps to go. That's how they used to do it with lapped cars on the inside line alongside the leaders, until there were under 10 laps to go when the field was made single-file on restarts. Also, they should get rid of the wave-around rule because it's far too easy to get back on the lead lap now (see Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. at Kansas a few weeks ago). I like the "lucky dog" because it encourages drivers that aren't on the lead lap to race hard against each other in hopes of catching a caution while being the top driver not on the lead lap, while also encouraging drivers not to race the leader too hard to prevent an accidental wreck (see Shane Hmiel wrecking Ron Hornaday at Milwaukee '03, or Kevin Harvick costing Robby Gordon the lead at Sonoma '01). Instead of giving cars not on the lead lap that don't pit under caution a wave-around, they should have those cars line-up in front of the leaders because they never actually earned their lap back, by way of either passing the leader on the track or getting the "lucky dog". I can live with the double-file restarts on intermediate tracks, especially since the current car makes passing difficult on these tracks and this would give drivers a chance to gain positions quickly, but they shouldn't be on short tracks, restrictor plate tracks, or road courses. I have no idea why they're on road courses since even before the current restart system, even lapped cars didn't line-up on the inside on the leaders because of the shapes of these tracks. Having them on short tracks encourage drivers to make a Ryan Newman-like move and bulldoze your way to the front by running over the leaders. And having them on restrictor plate tracks, while a good idea in theory because of the side-by-side tandem drafting that can come from it, has proven to be a wreck waiting to happen as cars try making it 3- or 4-wide if they get a better restart than the cars in front of them, which we saw in both Talladega races with A.J. Allmendinger cutting off Denny Hamlin and causing a 9-car wreck in the spring, and Tony Stewart cutting off Michael Waltrip and causing a 25-car wreck in the fall. It's too risky having double-file restarts on these types of tracks, and I wish NASCAR would get rid of them for those 12 races at the very least (6 short tracks, 4 plate tracks, 2 road courses). 462. murb posted: 11.06.2012 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I just saw on Twitter that Joey Coulter will drive for KBM full time in the Truck Series. I don't know if it's true, but if it is, then they've come a long way from Kansas 2011, lol. 463. cjs3872 posted: 11.06.2012 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, the problem with having cars line up in front of the leaders is that it usually ends up in a wreck involving a number of the leaders. That's a big reason that rule was done away with to begin with. Also, that creates a lot of confusion for those watching the race to see the guy leading the race potentially near the back of the field. So having potentially slower cars line up in front of the leaders is a bad idea that causes the leaders to be in wrecks they otherwise would never have been near. 464. 18fan posted: 11.06.2012 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch Motorsports has signed Joey Coulter to drive in the Truck Series next year. 465. Paul posted: 11.06.2012 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Coulter has signed with Kyle Busch Motorsports to drive their #18 Truck full-time in 2013. Coulter said a month ago that he would be leaving RCR after this season and had been in talks with ESR and KBM, the latter of which he has signed with. It's kind of funny that Coulter signed with KBM because it was last year at Kansas when Kyle Busch had that physical altercation with Richard Childress after the Truck race, which had to do with Kyle intentionally making contact with Coulter's truck following the race. This isn't the first time that Kyle has "extended the olive branch" in the form of a contract, so to speak, as he offered Ron Hornaday to drive for his team for the 2012 season, an offer that Hornaday turned down because he had already made a deal with JDM (a deal I'm sure he regrets making due to his mediocre 2012 season). Now Kyle has done the same to Coulter, only this time Coulter has accepted the offer and now it's a done deal for 2013. 466. jabber1990 posted: 11.06.2012 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 419. Smiff_2 posted: 11.05.12 - 8:07 am Not trying to go all 'TMI' on you guys, but....I was so dejected after the finish of this one, my girlfriend IMMEDIATELY had sex with me just to make me feel better. THAT'S how crushed I was... damn, I haven't had sex in 3 years, so I am incredibly jelous 467. Paul posted: 11.06.2012 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In that case cjs, lapped cars would almost be obligated to pit if everyone else pits if they had to start behind the leaders. In fact, not pitting would only hurt them because they would be lined up in front of the lapped cars that did pit and had fresher tires than them. I think having them line-up in front of the leaders would give teams an incentive to stay out and hope for a quick caution, while adding a potential consequence of being a rolling chicane in front of the leaders who did pit and have fresher tires than the cars that didn't. It would be a big risk/reward for lapped cars because it would give them better track position than the lapped cars that did pit, thus giving them a better chance at being the "lucky dog", while also putting them at risk of being run over by the leaders and passed by the other lapped cars on fresher tires should a long green flag run occur. I would also limit it so that only cars that are 1 or 2 laps down could line-up in front of the leaders because they are the only cars that would benefit from this while maintaining reasonable speed. I like the risk/reward factor in this and I think that, along with reverting back to the old restart rule, it would provide reasonable excitement on restarts without encouraging cars to "slice and dice" or "bulldoze" their way to the front. Drivers like Gordon and Hamlin who have a good measure of patience would benefit from this because they are very good at methodically working their way through traffic without beating their cars up. And to make sure that slower/chicane-like drivers don't do this, I would instruct a "one chance" policy so that lapped cars who hold up traffic would not be allowed to line-up in front of the leaders for the remainder of the race, and maybe even longer depending on how bad they were holding the leaders up. 468. cjs3872 posted: 11.06.2012 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes Paul, but what if you get a situation where about 10-15 lapped cars start in front of the leaders, because that situation has happened more often than you would think. Remember what hapened at Dover in 2004, when lapped cars caused major incidents that involved the leaders, and took out a number of them. That kind of situation should never happen. And starting lapped cars in front of the leaders always encouraged drivers to "slice and dice" through the field, as it always played to the advantage to the more aggressive drivers. But the one thing the current rules do is to eliminate the risk of short-pitting putting drivers laps down, if it only puts them one lap down, because they'll automatically get back on the lead lap through the wave-around. The Tony Stewart-Kasey Kahne incident on a restart when they were battling for the lead also occurred because they started in the middle of the pack. But having the leaders starting in the pack also causes confusion among those watching and covering the race, which is why the IRL, now the IndyCar Series, created the wave-around rule in 2000. 469. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.06.2012 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. Sitting here watching states turn colors, and I found out Linda McMahon, the wife of Brian France Vince McMahon was running for Senate in Connecticut (and lost). When did this happen? How did she get on the ballot? They said she spent 100 million bucks of her own money for this. No wonder WWF has been crap for years. 470. Paul posted: 11.06.2012 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, she ran in 2010 as well and lost after spending over $50 million in that campaign alone. He candidacy is one of the reasons why WWE turned to TV-PG in 2010, and they took down a lot of archive footage from the Attitude Era because she didn't want her campaign tainted by that stuff. I don't live in, or even near, Connecticut, but I hope she loses just because of the damage she's done to the WWE since she left. Also DSFF, I notice that your state is leaning towards the guy whose letter to you was put in the shredder. Is it safe to say you weren't among those who voted for him? 471. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.06.2012 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't vote. I don't give a damn for either. America is screwed no matter who wins. But I too am glad Linda lost. I hate what they have done to wrestling. And she would have been the wealthiest senator had she won. Not a good thing. #rarepoliticalcommentaryfromDSFF 472. Schroeder51 posted: 11.06.2012 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you want to piss people off on the Internet, just discuss politics or religion. That's why I hate saying discussions on those-because you'll never see a political or religious discussion on the Internet that doesn't end in people viciously attacking each other, belittling each other, and calling each other names like little children. 473. Paul posted: 11.06.2012 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A simple "yes it is safe to say that" would have sufficed lol. I mainly voted because we have two state amendments that I didn't want passed, and since I was there I figured I might as well voted for the politicians as well. It doesn't matter who I vote for since my state always votes Democrat (we were the only state Reagan didn't win in '84), so I just voted 3rd party since it didn't matter. In other non-racing related news, Jerry Jones said the other day that he would like to fire "Jerry Jones the GM", but then said today that he'll never relinquish his general manager status or duties. Say goodbye to your already slim Super Bowl hopes, Cowboys fans. This is why I no longer root for the Cowboys, because this egomaniac of an owner turned me away from the team. Me wanting the team to succeed indirectly means I want him to succeed, and I just can't do that anymore. 474. Paul posted: 11.06.2012 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not always true, Schroeder51. Me and some of my friends actually had a pretty peaceful Facebook debate on some political issue once before. Yes they are rare, but not impossible to happen. I think it helps when you discuss these issues with people you know because usually both sides do their best not to step on each others toes, so to speak. However, I wouldn't advise having a political or religious debate on YouTube or something like that because it's almost guaranteed to get ugly. 475. kup posted: 11.06.2012 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) UPS - Universal Points System UPS = Driver`s Total Distance /divide/ Average Finish after 34 of 36 Cup 2012 races: 1275 Brad Keselowski 12878,98 / 10,1 D-Penske 1244 Greg Biffle 12935,13 / 10,4 F-Roush - Wow 2nd! 1219 Jimmie Johnson 11947,81 / 9,8 C-Hendrick - Yeah 3rd! 1191 Clint Bowyer 12748,38 / 10,7 T-Waltrip 1182 Matt Kenseth 12889,19 / 10,9 F-Roush 1148 = 90% of 1275 of Leader 1137 Dale Earnhardt, Jr, C-Hendr 1133 Martin Truex, Jr, T-Waltrip 1036 Kevin Harvick C-Child 992 Denny Hamlin T-Gibbs 956 = 75% of 1275 of Leader 952 Kasey Kahne C-Hendr 944 Tony Stewart C-Stewart 880 Kyle Busch T-Gibbs 870 Jeff Gordon C-Hendr All Drivers above have Aver.Fin better than 15. 850 = 66% of 1275 of Leader 820 Paul Menard C-Child 791 Carl Edwards F-Roush 771 Ryan Newman C-Stewart 731 Joey Logano T-Gibbs 704 Marcos Ambrose F-Petty 642 Jeff Burton C-Child All Drivers above have Aver.Fin better than 20. 638 = 50% of 1275 of Leader 631 Jamie McMurray C-Ganas 617 Aric Almirola F-Petty 566 Juan Montoya C-Ganas 560 Mark Martin T-Waltrip - 22 race 549 Bobby Labonte T-JTD 498 Regan Smith C-Row&Not 481 Kurt Busch C-Pho&Row 425 = 33% of 1275 of Leader 353 Sam Hornish D-Penske - 18 Races 320 AJ Allmendinger D-Penske - 21 Races Just for fun: #22 Dodge Penske comparsion - both are ex-open-wheelers. Let`s compare them both with veteran Mark Martin? 476. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.06.2012 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The real reason Linda McMahon lost both U.S. Senate races tonight and in 2010 is, many people still vote the straight party ticket, Democratic or Republican. Another example of this is my home congressional race in Cincinnati Ohio, the 1st Ohio U.S. House District. Republican incumbent Steve Chabot has the name recognition, campaign signs and tv ads, meanwhile his challenger Jeff Sinard has no ads, no yard signs even in urban Cincinnati and no name recognition at all. Yet, Sinard is neck and neck with Congressman Chabot due to urban voters voting the straight Democratic ticket... 477. Paul posted: 11.06.2012 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kelly Bires posted on his Facebook page that he got a call from Go Green Racing saying that he won't be driving for them anymore. Shame, I thought he did a really nice job qualifying for them, especially considering he had never made a Cup start until this year. 478. MarkMartinFan posted: 11.06.2012 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @cjs3872 and Jim Davis, you guys make some good points. I guess I'm just getting a little tired of what seems to be inconsistency on these calls. 479. JG24FanForever posted: 11.06.2012 - 11:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I guess I'm just getting a little tired of what seems to be inconsistency on these calls." Nascar has always been consistent about playing favorites with the "Superstars" and taxing the Regan Smith's and Elliott Sadlers of the world in favor of there "Superstars". So I guess there really isn't any inconsistency in that respect. 480. JG24FanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A question of politics: Why do people vote when the popular vote doesn't even come into play as the electoral cancels it out? 481. Spen posted: 11.07.2012 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is fairly important for those of us who live in swing states (myself included). For the non-contested states, it is still a good idea to vote for your local representatives, even if the presidency isn't likely to be affected. It is actually possible to have civil conversations about politics, as long as each side respects the others' opinion. I, along with another occasional poster here, belong to a political discussion site that generally keeps things pretty light. 482. Thomas posted: 11.07.2012 - 1:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 446. JG24FanForever posted: 11.05.12 - 8:18 pm I thought Mark Martin was the cause for the final caution that eliminated Bad Brads lead after he had just whipped Jimmie with his inferior two-tires that were ruined on the next restart. I just looked, and it is! so why Kasey Kahne then? Because Brad had a big lead wiped out by Kasey's issue too and Kasey is one of Jimmie's teammates. Besides, I don't think Martin (another former teammate of Jimmie's, by chance) would have had his issue if Kasey hadn't had his because the field would have been spread out enough to prevent it. 483. JG24FanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 1:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "it is still a good idea to vote for your local representatives, even if the presidency isn't likely to be affected." Excellent point. " Besides, I don't think Martin (another former teammate of Jimmie's, by chance) would have had his issue if Kasey hadn't had his because the field would have been spread out enough to prevent it." Excellent point. 484. MarkMartinFan posted: 11.07.2012 - 4:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, I have never heard anything more true in my life. NASCAR screws over the little guys every chance they get. 485. JG24FanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 6:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Would things be as bad as people have predicted if Romney had been elected? Apparently(from my keyhole research)Romney was definitely the "Bad Guy" in this election, but I don't know. 486. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 6:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The next 4 years would play out the exact same way no matter who won last night. 487. JG24FanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 6:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) So that means unemployment will be over 10% and our National debt will go up another 6 Trillion or even more. 488. JG24FanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 8:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I miss Dale. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwp&NR=1&v=p4brzoViTmU 489. JG24FanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 8:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is without a doubt my favorite Nascar commercial. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhfQAKMpykg 490. Smiff_2 posted: 11.07.2012 - 9:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey, don't feel *too* bad jabber1990....up until last month, I was riding a FIVE YEAR rut. Before I met this girl, it had been since the Kansas Raceweek of September 2007 that I'd been 'without coitus'.....lol. Alright, moving along from my own sordid business, I'd like to touch on a few NASCAR-related things while I'm here and in a talkative/typing mood: - Although I have respect for what Kyle's done by hiring Coulter, I'm still quite disappointed we're not yet gonna see the debut of Ross Kenseth. That kid is PHE-NOMENAL <----Imagine that as being said in a Frank-Caliendo-as-Jim-Rome voice xD - As much as I hate the restart line controversy, I'm not gonna sit here and whine about it. All I know is that right now, we've got two of the best in the business going toe-to-toe, mano y mano....these guys are exchanging blows week to week and Keslowski *IS* getting to Johnson. Pure gamesmanship, all around. This is gonna be fun to watch for the next 2 weeks, no matter how you slice it. - The NW series is REALLY shaping up to be something to watch next year. Sadler, Vickers, Dillon, Smith, Bayne, Pastrana.....just those 6 guys alone are enough to create a season's-worth of excitement and drama, but then add in Blaney, Piquet, Herring and all the other part-time up-and-comers, and we've got a lot to look forward to in 2013. (Question: Is Beuscher running NW full-time?) 491. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 10:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JGFan, yes. In '08 Obama was all about change and hope and optimism and things will be different. Yet as a middle class worker, if I didn't watch the news I would never have known when W's presidency ended and O's began. This year Romney was all about tax cuts and cutting spending and reducing debt and creating jobs. Much like O's rhetoric in '08, none of that would have panned out. They are both bad guys. They are both politicians. 492. Paul posted: 11.07.2012 - 11:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I miss seeing those old racing commercials. I think the first one I ever saw was when Michael Waltrip showed up at the wrong track. Jeff's reaction to Dale's car being pink was priceless. Today's NASCAR commercials (to take a quote from Bobby Hamilton) aren't even a scab on Earnhardt's butt compared to how they used to be. I always use the rule that if both candidates are similar, stick with the incumbent. I think Romney and Obama in terms of running the economy were very similar. It was their social policy that really separates them as Obama is willing to see things from the other side, whereas Romney was set in his tracks about what he believed socially. The thing that turned me off from Romney was his flip-flopping on issues (being against FEMA before Hurricane Sandy, then supporting it afterwards) and what I deemed to be a fake personality. I didn't vote for Obama, but if I had to choose between the two, I would've picked him over Romney. Smiff_2, I honestly don't know what Turner's plan for 2013 is. My guess is that, championship or not, Buescher will move up to Nationwide. I thought Piquet was going to Nationwide too, but I've also heard a rumor that Parker Kligerman will sign with them to drive their Nationwide car as well. That's the one team I'm interested in seeing what changes they make because, quite frankly, I really don't know what's going to happen. 493. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Damn, I miss Dale." He was the last of his kind. A lot of people want to point to his death as a reason for NASCAR's sagging ratings, attendance, and overall interest after the initial spike due to the deals after his passing (the new TV big network package, big markets coming out to see what all the NASCAR fuss was about, etc). The truth is he would have long since been retired by now anyways. He would have turned 61 this year. The problem is that, unlike all the the other likeable dominators before him, there were absolutely no likeable, relatable drivers to pick up where he left off. Going back to the sport's beginnings, when driving heroes like Fireball Roberts, Junior Johnson, and Ned Jarrett left the sport in the mid 60s due to retirement and/or death, there was Richard Petty and to a lesser extent David Pearson to capture the NASCAR fan's imagination, two down home guys who never forgot their roots. To this day each still lives in the town they grew up in. And they were soon to be joined by other imagination capturers like Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, Benny Parsons, and Buddy Baker. Wins by these folks generally made you feel good. They carried NASCAR from a public standpoint even as they were joined by the non-likeable Darrell Waltrip whose antics allowed NASCAR to reach new audiences because Richard and Co were holding down the fort and keeping NASCAR's core audience satisfied. Then, as that likeable group began fading in the early 80s, they was another group for the fans to latch on to. Spearheading this was the guy whose background and entry to big time stock car racing was the definition of "hard luck". The guy who escaped a life in the mills and other equally shitty jobs by going broke, going into debt, throwing away two marriages and any real relationship with his first three kids all to chase his dream of doing nothing but racing for a living. Joining him were guys like Bill Elliott, Rusty Wallace, and Mark Martin, other guys who worked their way up the racing ranks the hard way. Even a guy like Ernie Irvan, who crashed everything, was somebody whose background you had to love. He came South to be a big time auto racer and wound up having to weld seats in the grandstand of CMS just to stay afloat. These guys, like the group before them, allowed an extremely talented outsider, this time Jeff Gordon, to reach out to new audiences and help the sport grow while they kept the core base interested. But when we lost Dale, his peer group was fading fast. Jeff was still there and would win his 4th championship, but he just never made a huge dent in the core audience. Truthfully, only now in the twilight of his prime (cjs will tell you he is past his prime, but I don't believe that) is there a noticeable non female contingent of Gordon fans at tracks like Martinsville. Worst of all, the incoming group of really good racers were almost completely unrelatable. Smoke comes the closest, but he has one too many screws loose in his head to be trusted by the NASCAR faithful. But you had others like Kurt Busch, Ryan Newman, Casey Atwood, etc there to take his place. Most unpardonable of all, you had Jimmie Johnson who grew up in a friggin trailer park with an awesome off camera personality show up and immediately follow in Jeff's New York City living, model marrying, bland as f**k (except when whining) personality on camera footsteps. And that leads us to this era's problem. You have people like JJ reaching out to the fickle big city audiences, but NOBODY is there to truly hold down the core audience. Supposedly this is Dale Jr, but his lack of heart, enthusiasm, pride, passion, and (fill in any words that suggests he truly gives a shit) isn't doing much. Throw in the fact that Art Modell Brian France also spends all his time shitting on them by taking dates from Rockingham, Darlington, and Atlanta, and suddenly NASCAR's fanbase is missing its backbone. And that is why everything is collapsing. That is why NASCAR honestly needs Brad to win this championship. Not just because I will become an alcoholic if he doesn't. He can be that guy to hold the true racing fans down. But another JJ championship will be absolutely devastating. We are already seeing huge downturns in numbers recently in anticipation of another 48 title. Check the numbers on Jayski. Things were way down, then Brad's surprise win and re-take of the points lead in Dover allowed the races after that to somewhat hold their own as compared to the last 3 years. But JJ dominated Martinsville, took back the points lead, and NASCAR fans got a sickening sense of deja vu. As a result, the Texas ratings are down almost 1 million viewers from last year, TWO million from '07. Translation, JJ drives viewers away and there is no Dale Earnhardt to keep the core audience's imagination like Gordon had from '96-'99 (Dale was still a contender in '95). 494. Paul posted: 11.07.2012 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two drivers celebrating anniversaries today, Jeff Gordon (6 years) and John Andretti (25 years). Now allow me to bring out my inner JG24FanForever as I present to you a wacky stat: Most Cup wins from drivers celebrating anniversaries on November 7th since they got married: 1. Jeff Gordon - 11 Cup wins since 11/7/06 2. John Andretti - 2 Cup wins since 11/7/87 Also, NASCAR has released a list showing the top five drivers in alphabetical order for the Nationwide and Truck Series Most Popular Driver Award. Here's the list: Nationwide MPD top five (alphabetical order) Austin Dillon Johanna Long (YES! All my voting has paid off!) Danica Patrick Elliott Sadler Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. Truck MPD top five (alphabetical order) James Buescher Joey Coulter Ty Dillon Ron Hornaday Nelson Piquet, Jr. Forget about the presidential election, this is the voting we should be doing. Voting ends on November 16th. 495. David posted: 11.07.2012 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "- The NW series is REALLY shaping up to be something to watch next year. Sadler, Vickers, Dillon, Smith, Bayne, Pastrana.....just those 6 guys alone are enough to create a season's-worth of excitement and drama, but then add in Blaney, Piquet, Herring and all the other part-time up-and-comers, and we've got a lot to look forward to in 2013." Heck yeah!! "Not just because I will become an alcoholic if he doesn't." Please don't. I'm not going to judge the restart at Texas because I haven't watched it and probably won't. But I do agree with cjs's statement about double-file restarts being that close. You can never be sure. I recall a few restarts in which the second-place driver beat the leader by thismuch. 496. jabber1990 posted: 11.07.2012 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) in 2005 or 2006 I put a tape in the VCR and wanted to record commericals commercials that aired during races (through more family drama my stepdad taped over it cause it involved NASCAR) I remember some commercials though, I rember in like 1998 or 1999 Evernham told Jeff Gordon "one lap to go bring it home" and so he looks to his side and he sees the pepsi girl and her grandpa on a bike flying past him and they go on to win the race, she ends the commercial drinking a pepsi saying "don't worry Jeff there is always daytona" I think it was the same year I saw a hardees commercial and I believe it was either Sterling or Mark drove past snother car 'hey you want something?" and then he drives into the pit and out of the track and BP was all "where is he going" he uses the drive-thru and then he eats then gets back on the track it was 2004 or 2005 2 fans were in victory lane and one guy was all "how does he do it, hes got to be a robot or something" and the other guy was all "why cause he always wins" then the soda and champagne short-circuits Kenseth, they carry him away and one crew guy "we need a new one" into the nextel coast-to-coast walkie talkie, they carry one in and his crew cheif smacks him im back of head and Kenseth goes "we win" and then he starts to celebrate my mom always loved the Biffle subway commercial where he eats faster than Doug Richert and then he celbrates celebrates and sprays the coke in his face right before it fades out 497. Paul posted: 11.07.2012 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well said, DSFF. But if you look at it, Jimmie Johnson represents what NASCAR has envisioned itself as being. He's a Californian, he says all the right things (except for when he bitches about other drivers, see Richmond '11 and Texas '12), he's a celebrity, he's cleancut, and he looks good in a suit. That's it, that's exactly what NASCAR tries making itself out to be. But the fact is is that NASCAR will never be looked at in that way by the general public. Most people still think of NASCAR as a southern sport filled with southern drivers at southern tracks with southern fans watching the sport from their southern tracks and their southern homes. All they've done is turn away its core fanbase and try convincing themselves that they're better than they really are. By getting so big, NASCAR has actually gotten smaller and smaller because they've lost touch with their fanbase and what they really are, which is a smaller southern-based sport that happens to race all over the country. It doesn't help that to go along with the top guy being an "emotionless juggernaut" (love that nickname), the sport is filled with arrogant jerks like Stewart, Busch brothers (Kyle more so than Kurt), and Harvick; completely unlikable and unrelatable drivers like Logano and Danica; and drivers who have lost touch with their roots like Jimmie, Denny, Carl, and the current MWR driver lineup. The current generation of drivers are so far away from the general fanbase that we almost have nobody to root for anymore. It used to be that you would root for certain drivers, but there wasn't anyone to root against because they all had redeemable qualities. Nowadays, I go into races dreading who's going to win because unless it's Jeff, Brad, Matt, or (on rare occasions) an underdog like Regan or Trevor, chances are I'm not going to like to driver that wins because they have too many unredeemable qualities that turn me away from them. Then if you look at the veterans from the Earnhardt/Gordon Era, while all of them are popular, none of them have the "IT" factor that can hold the core audience together. Jeff, Bobby, and Mark, while among the most popular drivers in the sport, aren't good enough at this point in their careers to be the number one guy, were never bigger than Dale, and were often elevated because of the strong supporting cast around them (Rusty, Jarrett, Elliott, Marlin). Jeff Burton has always been at least one-notch below being in the upper echelon of the sport. In a way, Burton is a lot like Ken Schrader without the great personality, in that while he hasn't been relevant in years, he's sort of the glue that holds everything together in the garage area (I guarantee that RCR would be more chaotic if he wasn't there). By the way, that's another thing NASCAR is missing: A Ken Schrader-like personality who has a likable and great sense of humor and personality that can raise the spirits of others. So basically, the drivers with the most redeemable qualities either aren't the number one guy (Jeff) or have never been the number one guy (Bobby, Mark, Burton, Matt); and the guys who think they're the number one guy (Stewart, Kyle, Denny) are too unlikable to be put in that category. The fact is, there's only one number one guy, and unfortunately he has about as much on-camera personality as the tools used to build his race cars. And the driver who for whatever reason has the largest fanbase, has too many times in his career shown that "I don't really give a shit" attitude that causes me to scratch my head as to why he's the most popular driver in the sport. For these reasons, I look at Brad as being maybe the last hope to make NASCAR fun again. He has a great personality that he's not afraid to show off, he hasn't lost touch with his roots, and he is relatable to a lot of fans. In short, he's REAL. Having Brad win the championship this year could do wonders for the sport, especially in light of what's been a pretty terrible year in terms of on-track action with the current car and rules. Knowing that next year could be a down-year for Penske, I really hope that Brad can pull this one off because compared to the other drivers that have gone toe-to-toe with Jimmie, he may be the only one who hasn't blinked. Hopefully he can pull this one off because like I said, he may be our last hope to de-rail this #48 team's dynasty once and for all. If he doesn't, and Penske has a down year, there's a good chance that Jimmie continues this momentum towards next season because the quality of competition in the sport may not be good enough to bring him down. 498. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2012 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you're right, Gordon is well past his prime, and is on the downward side of his career, and has been for about four or five years. He is right now where Dale, Sr. was in about 1997, '98, or '99. One thing that I think everyone forgets is that, when he won his fourth championship in 2001, although Gordon was just 30 years old, he had been racing for 25 of those years, so he was more like a 40-year old driver, even though he was 30. And let's not forget that Gordon, along with Rusty Wallace, Dale Jarrett, Mark Martin, and the Labonte brothers, were deeply affected by Earnhardt's death in 2001, and truly none of those drivers have ever been the same since. A lot of people have mentioned that Bobby Labonte's career went off a cliff after winning the 2000 NASCAR championship. What people fail to mention is that Earnhardt's death occurred in the first race that Bobby was the official champion for. Rusty has admitted that Earnhardt's death pretty much sucked the life out of him as a driver, and I think the same is true in regards to Dale Jarrett and Mark Martin. Even Gordon has not been the same since Earnhardt's death, although he's the sport's third-winningest driver in the years since. But Gordon has, on an overall basis, been reluctant to take the risks after Earnhardt's death that he would not have hesitated to take prior to it. Earnhardt's death was like dropping a bomb on the sport and it's participants. However, the sport did continue to thrive for most of the seven years following Earnhardt's death, but the waning success of Gordon and Dale, Jr. beginning in 2006 took it's toll, as did numerous financial crisis, resulting in 20% of the field in a great number of Cup races these days not even trying to run the full distance, because they simply can't afford to. A sport can't continue to thrive if it's biggest names are no longer constant factors, and that lack of success that Gordon and Dale, Jr. have had over the last seven years have certainly contributed to the loss of popularity, especially considering that there hasn't been anyone to fill the void they their lack of success created. Certainly Jimmie Johnson and the #48 have filled the power vacuum some, but you need more than one driver to do that. You need about four or five, and right now, although there have been challengers to Jimmie's throne, both experienced and inexperienced, nobody's really measured up to the task, something that's probably going to continue this year, and quite possibly next year, as well. 499. Paul posted: 11.07.2012 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haha! Those Biffle and Kenseth commercials were great. I also liked the Nextel walkie-talkie commercial with Carl and Mark. Some fans wanted Carl to do the flip, to which he turned down it down, so then Mark has some gymnast come in and start doing consecutive back flips, disappears, and Mark shows up with his arms in the air as the fans cheer. So there were some commercials from the past few years that were good. Nowadays, the only commercials that air are track advertisements that make the races that can't sell-out look better than they really are, Chase driver commercials, Nationwide insurance, and the never-ending MWR driver commercials. Ugh. 500. David posted: 11.07.2012 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but the waning success of Gordon and Dale, Jr. beginning in 2006 took it's toll" With 2007 obviously being an outlier for Gordon, arguably his best non-championship performance. But if you ask Junior Johnson, a "good" season is one with double digits in the win column. 501. Paul posted: 11.07.2012 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a funny story about a fan stealing Brad's hat before the Texas race, Tweeting him about stealing his hat, and then actually asking if he would sign it. This is one case where cheaters don't prosper against the driver of the Blue Deuce. http://aol.sportingnews.com/nascar/story/2012-11-07/brad-keselowski-fan-steals-hat-asks-for-autograph-texas?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook 502. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's it, that's exactly what NASCAR tries making itself out to be." Exactly. But to further your point, it isn't so much "Southern" that drives the fanbase of NASCAR, but "blue collar". It has always been a sport that appeals to middle class working folks. Of course there is much more money to be made if our fans were in a higher tax bracket. Take for instance the golf audience. They have a ton of disposable income and that is the audience NASCAR wants. But it won't happen. "t doesn't help that to go along with the top guy being an "emotionless juggernaut" (love that nickname), the sport is filled with arrogant jerks like Stewart, Busch brothers (Kyle more so than Kurt), and Harvick; completely unlikable and unrelatable drivers like Logano and Danica" That is one thing I meant to mention: it is only getting worse! Logano and Danica are perfect examples. Logano is from a rich family and he acts like it. And Danica makes no bones about the fact she prefers the fancy, really expensive stuff. While Dale Earnhardt spent his time away from racing by fishing, deer hunting, fishing while thinking about deer hunting, or running a farm, Danica goes on exotic vacations, eats at the most expensive restaurants, and sticks pins into a voodoo doll of Johanna Long. "Gordon is well past his prime" I disagree. Nobody "well past their prime" could do what he did at Richmond. His wins in 2011 showed he can still do it. We can't let his Wile E Coyote luck of this year blind us to where he is really at. "A lot of people have mentioned that Bobby Labonte's career went off a cliff after winning the 2000 NASCAR championship. What people fail to mention is that Earnhardt's death occurred in the first race that Bobby was the official champion for. Rusty has admitted that Earnhardt's death pretty much sucked the life out of him as a driver, and I think the same is true in regards to Dale Jarrett and Mark Martin." A few things here. First off, you have to remember Bobby's 2000 season was textbook "it's just his year". All but NINE laps completed in 34 races. Are you kidding me? Anytime you have a season like that and your name isn't "Jeff Gordon" or "Jimmie Johnson" you will have everything in the world go wrong the next year (Mark '91, Bobby '01, Kenseth '04, KuBu '05, Carl '06, Carl '09, Carl '12). Plus I don't think Bobby is mentally equipped to have a dynasty. Drivers like Earnhardt and Gordon climb that mountain once and say "I've got to do that again and again and again". Somebody like Bobby climbed it once and said "Wow, that was tough, at least I did it once, I don't wanna do that again". As for Rusty, yes he was scared after Dale died. But in Speedweeks 1994, after two on track fatalities, he gave his famous driver's meeting lecture (something some drivers today need to watch on a continuous loop) in which he admitted to being scared. He won 8 races that season including at dangerous tracks like Michigan and Pocono. The biggest thing, IMO, is that him and Dale developed a "Petty/Pearson" type rivalry and relationship where they pushed each other to be even better. They measured themselves off each other. With Dale gone, Rusty was kinda lost. I feel the same would have happened to Dale had it been Rusty, I truly believe that. 503. Eric posted: 11.07.2012 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, How come you didn't mention Jeff Burton being affected by Dale's Death? Remember Jeff Burton after Dale's death was involved in making NASCAR safer. It is true that Roush was on the decline in 2001, but Jeff was on the decline past that year. It took him 2006 to win again after winning 2 times in 2001. While Jeff Burton had good seasons after Dale's death, he was not the same driver even in his 2006 to 2008 seasons. Jeff Burton from 1997 to 2000 had anywhere from 13 to 18 top 5's a season and also 3 seasons of 22 or more top 10's. Jeff Burton in 2000 had 4, wins,15 top 5's and 22 top 10's. Jeff hasn't reached double digits in top 5's in a season since despite being close to doing that in 2007. Jeff Burton only got 1 season of having 20 or more top 10's in a season. Going into 2001, people thought Jeff Burton was a huge threat to be cup champion and some even though he could be cup Champion. Jeff Burton really never was title threat for the most part since Dale's death. Jeff Burton's career shows he was better before 2001. The other thing is a driver that was only 33 years old when Dale died isn't supposed to take almost 5 years to win again to win a cup race. Jeff didn't win after Phoenix 2001 to the time he won the fall race at Dover. If Dale didn't die, I argue the form of Jeff Burton shown from 1997 to 2000 would have lasted a lot longer. If you go by how Jeff Burton was from 1997 to 2000, You would say this a driver that could have gotten 30 to 40 cup wins, anywhere from 160 to 200 top 5's and anywhere from 270 to 300 career top 10's by now at least. 504. Paul posted: 11.07.2012 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But to further your point, it isn't so much "Southern" that drives the fanbase of NASCAR, but "blue collar". It has always been a sport that appeals to middle class working folks." Good point. Blue collar is actually a better term since NASCAR has always had a strong following among middle-class people in the midwest and northeast. But in the eyes of a lot of people, it will always be looked at as a southern sport, and not in a good way. ""Gordon is well past his prime" I disagree. Nobody "well past their prime" could do what he did at Richmond. His wins in 2011 showed he can still do it. We can't let his Wile E Coyote luck of this year blind us to where he is really at." I agree with DSFF on this one. I think the term "twilight of his prime" is a very fitting description of what he's currently going through. I think that's what Earnhardt's '97-'99 years were like as well. He wasn't in contention to win 5-8 races a year anymore, but he was always a threat if he had a great car, which unfortunately wasn't frequent for RCR post-1995. Jeff's '08-'10 seasons are a lot like Dale's '97-'99 seasons because while neither were at full strength due to injuries, they were always someone you had to watch for on tracks like Talladega, Bristol, and Atlanta because they always knew how to drive on those types of tracks. Then Dale's '00 season and Jeff's '11 season are a lot alike in that they were both career-resurrecting years, aside from Jeff's complete invisibility during the Chase. If Jeff doesn't have "Wile E. Coyote syndrome", he wins 3-4 races for sure (Martinsville, Dover, Pocono, maybe Sonoma), and may have a different mindset that helps him win Atlanta. There were only two races this year where he was the luckiest driver in the race, and that was at Pocono when the leaders wrecked in front of him and then rain ended the race, and at Talladega when he was in about 15th place and was the first driver to avoid the wreck and finished 2nd (ironically enough, the three drivers with the worst luck this season, Kenseth, Gordon, Kyle, finished 1-2-3). If Jeff has better luck, he's a championship contender and is in prime position for a top 3 points finish. And even with bad luck, he's still in position for a top 5 points finish. "Past their prime" drivers don't do that, they're generally in the 20th-25th place positions like Burton and Labonte. Also, Bobby Labonte is kind of like the Arizona Diamondbacks of NASCAR. He had a few good years at the beginning of his career and won a championship, but then quickly regressed and hasn't been a threat for the championship since. It doesn't take away his 2000 Cup championship because he was "The Man" that year, but in the grand scheme of things he looks like a "one-notch below upper echelon" driver who had two great Cup seasons and made the most of it the 2nd time, only to fall from grace in the years after. I still think he deserves a better ride than JTG Daugherty "Racing", but it doesn't appear that will change. 505. Mr X posted: 11.07.2012 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few nights ago I was watching the final 1000km race at the Nurburgring's North Loop from the World Endurance Sports Car Championship in 1983, and had a wonderful dream, does anyone else wish for NASCAR to have an offseason exibition race at the Green Hell as bad as I do. That would be a sight to behold. 506. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2012 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul and DSFF, the reason I say that Jeff Gordon is well past his prime is that he can't do what he did at Richmond more than about 3-5 times a year any more. Sure he had that miracle comeback at Richmond, but other than the races at the short tracks and Dover, and the luckiest win of his career at Pocono, what else has he done this year? Sure he's had the most prolonged stetch of bad luck for and race I've ever seen for one year, but he hasn't really run that well in the races at the tracks over a mile in length. The fact that he finished in the top three in six out of seven races and only led a total of 22 laps in all seven proves that more than anything else does. And all three of the races he won last year had two things in common. First, there was a prolonged stretch of green flag racing in all three of those races. Secondly, all three of those races were on tracks with worn-out surfaces. He would not have won any of those three races this year. Every great athlete has a "turn back the clock" moment, and Richmond this year was Gordon's for this year. Gordon right now is in the same point in his career that Dale, Sr. was from 1997-'99, or where Darrell Waltrip was in the early-to-mid 90s, which essentially was that he's a threat to win 2-4 races each year, and that's about it. And it's become rather obvious that 2007 was an acute anomaly for Gordon, because if you take that season out of the equation, he's won a total of seven races since 2006. I believe Gordon will finish about fourth of fifth in points (with an outside shot at third), not due to his own brilliance, but rather because of the failures of the others behind him in the Chase have had. And he could be fifth, but third on his own team, which doesn't speak well for him, either. I predicted before this season started that Gordon's made his final serious run at the championship, because I've seen a major slide in his performance the last five or six years. And let's not forget that when Gordon was making his run last year, most of the true contenders were only half-trying, because they were experimenting for the Chase. Once the Chase started, we found out where the #24 team really stood, and it was closer to where they were the first 12 races, rather than the next 14. And by the way, don't be surprised if Jimmie Johnson opens up about a 20-25 point lead at Phoenix this weekend, because I'm not sure I trust Brad Keselowski and the Penske team there, especially with all they mistakes they've been making. And with a maximum of 40 points to be gained this week and about 41 or 42 next week, because of start-and-parks, if Jimmie opens up a 20-25 point lead, he'll only have to finish about 20th at Homestead to win the title. And as I said, I think this may be Brad's last serious run at the title as long as he's with Penske, because Penske will never make NASCAR his top racing priority. The NASCAR title has always been the third-most important thing for Penske, behind winning the Indianapolis 500 and the IndyCar championship, so this is Brad's one and quite possibly, his only chance as long as he's with Penske. Of course, given how Penske lost the IndyCar title this year in crushing fashion, it would be ironic if he won the NASCAR championship in similar fashion. 507. David posted: 11.07.2012 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but he hasn't really run that well in the races at the tracks over a mile in length. The fact that he finished in the top three in six out of seven races and only led a total of 22 laps in all seven proves that more than anything else does." I thought you've been saying that was due to a lack of speed in his cars. 508. JG24FanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a list of Noteworthy drivers at Greenville-Pickens Speedway from a 2008 Greenville News article and it includes Maurice"The Madman"George. A driver who earned his nickname after crashing his car on purpose because he was so infuriated(I display this level of competitiveness)that he wasn't going to win. Maurice George is my Grandfather and though I never knew him or even met him(please don't laugh or I guess laugh a little)I still managed to go to Greenville-Pickens for more than a hundred races in my youth, but iv'e only been about a half a dozen times since 1998. I find it interesting that DSFF goes to Bowman-Gray which is the North Carolina counterpart to South Carolina's Greenville-Pickens. And this track holds the distinction of being the track that held one of the first post war races and was such a huge success in 1946 that Bill France declared that event "the place where Nascar began". Here's the list of drivers noted in the article: Bobby Allison - Allison won 84 times in NASCAR series, which ranks third all time. Raced four times at GPS, finishing second in NASCAR Grand National Greenville 200 in 1970. Sam Ard - Ard raced in both Busch Series events at GPS in 1983, winning the pole for the Coca-Cola 200 and finishing in the top 10 both times. Buck Baker - A NASCAR driver for 26 years, he first raced at GPS in 1951, finishing third in the August Grand National event. He also won at GPS in 1956, 1959 and 1963. Doug Cox - A Greenville driver who competed for six seasons in the Grand National series, he raced at Greenville in five GN races, finishing fourth in 1958 and in the top 10 two other times. Ralph Earnhardt - Earnhardt was a two-time track champion at GPS, where son Dale would tag along. He finished 18th in his two Grand National races at GPS, both in 1964. Fonty Flock - One of three Flock brothers (Bob, Tim) who raced in the early days of the sport, Fonty got his start at fast driving by outracing law enforcement officers while delivering moonshine. He won a GPS race on the fledgling pro circuit in 1947, then raced twice in GN races at GPS, finishing fourth in 1951. Larry Frank - A Grand National driver for 11 seasons, he finished 14th in the 1965 Greenville 200 and won $100. Maurice George - A crowd favorite who won 34 dirt-track races at GPS from 1958-64, George returned at age 64 to win an eight-lap Old-Timers race at GPS on July 4, 1994. Paul Goldsmith - A Michigan native who spent 11 seasons on the Grand National circuit, he finished 22nd in the 1966 Greenville 200. Grady Hawkins - The track's first points champion. Jeff Hawkins - A Greenville resident who won five track championships at GPS. He also raced five times in Grand National events at GPS in the 1960s, including top 10 finishes in both of his starts in 1968. Elmo Henderson - The Spartanburg driver won the GPS track championship in 1958 and raced four times in GN races at GPS during the 1960s, never starting or finishing worse than 11th. Dick Hutcherson - He raced five times at GPS during a four-year GN career in the 1960s, twice winning poles and sweeping the 1965 races (Greenville 200 and Pickens 200). Bobby Isaac - He won four NASCAR races at GPS, including the Greenville 200 on April 10, 1971, which made history as the first race covered flag to flag by television. He finished with 37 Grand National or Winston Cup victories during a 15-year NASCAR career. Ned Jarrett - Patriarch of the racing clan that includes his son Dale Jarrett and grandson Jason, Ned started 14 Grand National races at GPS, winning the Greenville 200 in 1960 and 1962. Junior Johnson - Before becoming one of the top team owners in the history of NASCAR, he drove for 14 years, including seven starts in GN races at GPS. He won races at GPS in 1959 and 1961. Butch Lindley - The Greenville native spent many weekends at GPS, where he was track champion in 1972, then went on to the Late Model Sportsman Division, where he was champion in 1977 and 1978. In 1983, he won the Busch Series (formerly Late Model) DAPCO 200 at GPS. He is generally regarded as one of the top short-track drivers of all time. Fred Lorenzen - A 26-time winner on the NASCAR GN circuit in a career that began in 1956 and ended in 1972, he raced in GN events at GPS in 1956 and 1963. Tiny Lund - A popular driver in the early years of NASCAR, Lund raced at GPS 11 times, winning the pole for the Greenville 200 in 1966 and finishing in the top 10 five times. Marvin Panch - An early NASCAR star who won 17 times in a 15-year career highlighted by his years with the Wood Brothers team, he finished third in the 1964 Greenville 200 and 11th in the 1964 Pickens 200, which he led for 55 laps before crashing. He is a member of the NMPA Stock Car Hall of Fame. Jim Pardue - A regular on the Grand National circuit in the early 1960s, he raced eight times at GPS, including from the pole in the 1963 Greenville 200. Jim Paschal - A NASCAR regular in the 1950s and '60s, he started 10 series races at GPS, including eight top 10 finishes with a best of second place in the 1962 Greenville 200. David Pearson - The Spartanburg resident won the 1959 GPS track championship, then began a 26-year career in NASCAR on the Grand National series in 1960. He won 105 races, second only to Richard Petty in NASCAR history. Lee Petty - The stock-car racing pioneer ' father of Richard and grandfather of Kyle ' raced in seven GN races at GPS between 1951 and 1960. He started from the pole at GPS in 1959 and finished second in the 1960 Greenville 200. Richard Petty - NASCAR's all-time winningest driver earned a record six of his 200 victories at GPS, including a sweep of the 1968 races. Floyd Powell - A three-time champion at GPS (1960-62), Powell finished 13th in his only Grand National appearance at the track in 1962. Fireball Roberts - One of the early stars of NASCAR who won 33 times in his 15-year career, he finished 16th (out of 18 cars) in his only GN race at GPS in 1961. Buddy Shuman - A popular Grand National driver in the 1950s, he finished 10th in his only GN appearance at GPS, in 1951. NASCAR annually presents the Buddy Shuman Award, given to a racing figure for contributions to the sport. Jack Smith - He joined NASCAR in its inaugural season (1949) and won 21 times in his 15-year career, including in 1958 and 1961 at GPS. Curtis Turner - He started with NASCAR in 1949 and raced until 1968. Along the way, he made four starts at GPS, including from the pole in the 1960 Greenville 200. Joe Weatherly - Weatherly won 25 GN races in 12 seasons during the 1950s and '60s. He also had four top 5 finishes among his eight starts at GPS. Bob Welborn - A winner of nine GN races in a 13-year career, he won the pole for the 1955 race at GPS. Rex White - The Spartanburg resident was the pole sitter for the 1956 GN race at GPS and spent nine years on the circuit, winning 28 races. LeeRoy Yarbrough - He won 14 GN or Winston Cup races during a 12-year career, including the Pickens 200 in 1964. Cale Yarborough - The Timmonsville native is fifth all-time in NASCAR wins with 83, but he never finished better than ninth in four GN races at GPS in the early 1960s. 509. cjs3872 posted: 11.07.2012 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, the fact that he led just 22 laps in those seven races has mostly to do with the lack of speed in the cars, but the fact that Gordon is not as aggressive as he once was also plays a part in that, and a lot of that has to do with all the years he's raced for, which is why his prime came much earlier in his Cup career than any of the other great champions, in terms of chronological age. His prime years were his mid 20s-to early 30s, instead of the early-to-late 30s, like most great champions before him were. But that has to do with the fact that he got such an early start, so when that is taken into consideration, his prime years probably were at the same point in his career as most, but about 5-8 years earlier in terms of chronological age. That's why I stated that when Gordon won his fourth chamnpionship at age 30, he really was about 36-38 in terms of traditional years, because he started so much earlier. In other words, even though he's 41 in terms of actual age, in racing years, he's more like 47-50 because he's been racing for 36 years. 510. David posted: 11.07.2012 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but the fact that Gordon is not as aggressive as he once was also plays a part in that" Alright, I'll concede that point to you. Gordon is certainly not as aggressive as he once was. 511. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.07.2012 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's why I stated that when Gordon won his fourth chamnpionship at age 30, he really was about 36-38 in terms of traditional years, because he started so much earlier. In other words, even though he's 41 in terms of actual age, in racing years, he's more like 47-50" When Dale was 38 (in real years) he was a 3 time Winston Cup champion. He won 4 more. So what happened to Jeff? #BigE>Gordon 512. Paul posted: 11.07.2012 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh boy, another "Gordon vs. [insert name of driver with more Cup titles than him]" debate. How original... 513. David posted: 11.08.2012 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh boy, another "Gordon vs. [insert name of driver with more Cup titles than him]" debate. How original..." Actually, I don't believe that we have ever compared Gordon to Richard Petty. 514. Paul posted: 11.08.2012 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is no comparison to Richard Petty. He will always be The King (no quotation marks) and is the greatest NASCAR driver of all-time. All the other great drivers will have their historical rankings debated, but it is The King who sits alone atop the NASCAR pedestal. 515. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2012 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, four things happened to his career. The first was Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus (and their takeover of HMS after the 2004 plane crash), the second was a series of crashes from 2006-'09, and the third is what I stated earlier about his racing age being about 6-8 years older than his chronological age. And when I stated that when Gordon won his third title at 30, that his racing age may have been 36-38, that was only an estimate. It may well have been older than that, and closer to 42, since he had already been racing for 25 years, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that. The fourth was the effect that Dale, Sr.'s death had on him. Even though he won the championship that year (2001), I could tell a difference in his driving even then to 2-4 years previously. Also remember that his 2001 championship was the last battled among the drivers of Earnhardt's era, as Gordon battled the likes of Ricky Rudd, Dale Jarrett, and Sterling Marlin for the title that year, all of whom folded under the pressure, handing second to Tony Stewart. The following year, a new batch of chargers took the fight to and through Gordon, and he's not led the series in wins since. He had led the series in wins six times in the seven years prior to 2002. He's won almost every big race since, with the exception of the Coca-Cola 600, but he's not won the championship since 2001. Of course, the Chase has a lot to do with that as well, as it has cost Gordon two titles. 516. David posted: 11.08.2012 - 8:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There is no comparison to Richard Petty. He will always be The King (no quotation marks) and is the greatest NASCAR driver of all-time. All the other great drivers will have their historical rankings debated, but it is The King who sits alone atop the NASCAR pedestal." Finally someone who agrees with me. Even if during his prime, there had only been about 30 races a year, he would still have about 125 wins and at least five championships. 517. Cooper posted: 11.08.2012 - 10:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No offense cjs, but you have to throw everything from the past away when it comes to the #2 team. Every ounce of blood, sweat, and tears is going into the 2 team. Plus, the notion of them making more mistakes is incorrect. The fact that they have made mistakes lately, actually means they are due for a clean and normal weekend. Also add into the equation that Brad is the most tenacious driver in the garage and no mistake is unrecoverable. Obviously, your on team Jimmie and thats fine. But just remember to not come to the party when Brad hoists the title in 11 days. 518. Smiff_2 posted: 11.08.2012 - 10:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^^ hahahaha! Love it! 519. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even the media has FINALLY quit the whole "JJ's average finish at the next track is 5.4 and Brad's is 21.8, so JJ will definitely leave this race in firm command of the points" thing they have been doing since Dover. The fact is something magical is going on with the 2 team. Everything that has happened in the past simultaneously doesn't matter one bit and also means everything in the world. You can throw out all past stats anywhere with this group, yet their past struggles have also given them a tremendous perspective that allows this team to be wise beyond their small amount of time together. So the question is this: Will this be enough to overcome The Emotionless Juggernaaut and HMS, whose engines and chassis have won the last 6 Cup titles and DOMINATED the win column since 1995 (remember, a lot of the #18 team's early wins were with HMS motors and chassis). They just seem to be able to go as fast as they want. Honestly, watching them over the past two weeks, seeing just how much further ahead of everyone HMS is as an organization, I am gonna gonna move both JJ and Gordon down my historical rankings. They have been bringing bazookas to knife fights since '95. They have been unable to get the 2 team to crumble mentally (like Denny and the #11 team in '10) or just say "screw it, we just can't compete with these guys" (like Gordon in '07). Jimmie and his team are the ones bitching over menail stuff and showed signs of being flustered, yet they STILL are able to win. That is just how much better HMS is. But there are some things to consider. First off, luck. Brad, after they miscalculated fuel at Charlotte with the fastest car, just needed one well timed caution towards the end to amke up ositions. It never happened which hurt him and benefitted JJ. Then at Kansas JJ made what, 99 times out of 100, is a fatal error, backing hard into the wall. But he somehow avoided bending anything except sheet metal, avoided a championship ending trip to the garage, and lost a WHOLE lot less than he should have. At Martinsville, if ONE more car joins Brad and June in staying out, Brad wins. It didn't happen, plus JJ got the cautions he needed. And at Texas, after Brad messed up pitting, they still were in position to win on fuel mileage while the 48 needed to pit. They got a debris caution. Then, having to take a two tire gamble, they still beat the 48 and their 4 tires on two restarts, but had that final caution where JJ beat him to the line. One less caution and he wins. So will the luck switch the other way at any point over these last few races? The 48 has a seeming endless supply of luck, but all Brad needs is ONE break. Just one. Plus there is the fact that the 2 team has a genuine brothership and trust in each other. The 48 team works in constant fear of the cheating tyrant Knaus and his quick trigger in getting rid of crew members. At what point does that finally wear these guys out? At what point does racing karma finally bite Cheating Chad when he needs a break the most? How long are the racing gods gonna allow him to make a mockery of their world? Either way, Brad is hands down the driver of the year and the 2 team is FAR AND AWAY the team of the year. Brad has already been named NASCAR Illustrated's Person of the Year. When people think of 2012, they will think of Brad and The Blue Deuce first. The core of this Sport is already done with The Emotionless Juggernaut. They can win 10 titles and it won't matter. Put a 27 year old Dale in a time machine to 2002, let him recreate JJ's career arc, and he would already have the championship record and over 100 wins. And as for the future, I know for a fact that Brad, Paul, and this 2 team will be a force to be reconed with for years to come. As I have said in the past, this is the New Penske South. After Kurt's epic blowup (even by his standards) at Spring Richmond '11, The Captain finally threw up his hands, had his engineers quit micromanaging, and let the drivers and crew members be the leaders. Is it any coincidence Brad's career IMMEDIATELY skyrocketed? He is a natural leader along with Paul, so they will be fine. They are both smart as hell and will handle adjusting to the future wondefully. I know this for a fact. Plus, I'm not convinced 2013 will be that much of a down year. Yeah they have the Ford switch, but EVERYBODY will be adjusting to new cars and chassis. They only have new engines to adjust to. And as for getting motors from Roush, nobody seems concerned at all about this. Roush can't bully The Captain or Brad. They will never stand for it. Plus they will now have other resources to pool from like HMS will have about 10 cars out there with their stuff. And that is why, thinking harder about it, brad choosing Joey as a teammate may have been a stroke of genius. As a teammate, he needs a wingman, not another competitor, much like JJ has in Gordon. When he needs actual info, he can go to the other Ford guys. Plus, as for the "year after hangover" which affect all non 48 teams whether they win the title or not, I think they avoid that. Brad has defied every conventional line of thinking so far. Why should this be any different? Brad Keselowski and Paul Wolfe are undoubtably the future of NASCAR. And in two weeks, possible the present as well. Go Brad. Go get it! 520. Smiff_2 posted: 11.08.2012 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^^ I was *just* gonna say that xD 521. Sean posted: 11.08.2012 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Finally someone who agrees with me. Even if during his prime, there had only been about 30 races a year, he would still have about 125 wins and at least five championships." Yeah, but what if Pearson, Yarborough, and Allison had been full-time all those years? I think it's perfectly reasonable to argue for Pearson, Yarborough, Earnhardt, or MAYBE Allison over Petty. I also think it's perfectly reasonable to argue for Petty over any of those. I don't think there's any argument for Gordon or Johnson over Petty yet. "Plus, the notion of them making more mistakes is incorrect." No shit! Jimmie is probably going to win the title because after he made a COLOSSAL screwup at Kansas that should have been a DNF, his crew saved his butt and got him a top ten he didn't REMOTELY deserve. Jimmie has had some good drives this year clearly (Martinsville for one), but I have been much more impressed by Keselowski and Hamlin's actual driving in the races, because they didn't make bizarre unforced errors like Johnson's spin at Kansas or causing that wreck at Pocono that handed Jeff Gordon the win...while Keselowski greatly overachieved by Penske NASCAR standards and Hamlin had what I felt were the two best drives of the year, even with killer cars (32nd to 1st at Loudon in less than 100 laps and driving through the field twice at Martinsville before his mechanical problem...Loudon and Martinsville are both heavy talent indicators and even though he sped in the pits at Martinsville twice, I feel he made up for it magnificently). Honestly, I don't like Jimmy, Denny, OR Brad, but Brad is the guy who deserves it. 522. Sean posted: 11.08.2012 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did I really just write Jimmy instead of Jimmie? I must have not had enough sleep last night. 523. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2012 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The plain truth is that the #2 team might be 7-10 points ahead, if not more, if it wasn't for three critical mistakes they made born of lack of experience in a championship battle when they had races won. First, there was what happened at Charlotte. You mentioned DSFF, that they miscalculated fuel mileage. They didn't miscalculate the fuel mileage in that race. What happened was that on their next-to-last pit stop, they didn't get the car full of fuel. Had they filled the tank, they wouldn't have run out of gas and would have been able to stretch it to victory, but instead, they ran out earlier than expected, had to make a second pit stop, and finished 11th. That cost them 13 points right there, which by itself would have reversed the points position as it currently sits. Then there was Brad's pit road gaffe at Texas when he had that race in the bag. The resulting slow pit stop dropped him to eighth or ninth, which resulted in Paul Wolfe's hand being forced on that final pit stop to change just right side tires. Then on the final restarts, Brad chose to start in the wrong lane. Another mistake. He should have chosen the outside lane, because his car got sucked being on Johnson's inside. But had he started on the outside, he most likely would have sped away to the win, even on older tires. That cost him another six points, the three he lost, and the three Jimmie gained. In other words, instead of being seven points behind, as he currently is, he should be at least 12 points ahead. Johnson's not been infallable, as he's also made a couple of major mistakes, most notably, his crash at Kansas, but he was able to overcome his mistakes, while the #2 team clearly has not. As a result, there was a 19-point swing in those two races alone in Jimmie's favor, or basically half a race worth of points. And that is probably what's going to carry Jimmie through. Jimmie's going to win the championship not just because of his performance, but because he again has found a championship rival too inexperienced, and that experience, more than his actual performance, is going to be what wins him the championship. And DSFF, at Martinsville, if one more car stays out on that caution, Jeff Gordon more than likely wins that race, not Keselowski, because Gordon would have started fifth instead of fourth, giving him that preferred inside line, and he would have run much harder than he did. Once he realized he couldn't win that race, he cooled his heels, and three other cars passed him as a result, including Keselowski who had had passed. And Cooper, remember that although most of the personnel at Penske Racing is changed from what it was a few years ago, the man running things is still the same. And as long as Roger Penske is the man in charge, there will never be as much emphasis put on the NASCAR program as it will be the IndyCar program. I think that's also a major reason why Earnhardt-Ganassi continues to struggle, because Chip Ganassi is unquestionably running things, and the NASCAR program will always be lowest on the totem pole, in terms of importance there as well. IndyCar comes first there, as well, then the road racing program, and finally NASCAR. Winning the NASCAR championship may be important to all the other teams, but it's not as important to these organization as winning the Indianapolis 500, the IndyCar championship, and in Ganassi's case, winning the Grand-Am championship is. I actually think that winning the important NASCAR races (i.e. the Daytona 500, the Coca-Cola 600, the Southern 500, and the Brickyard 400) is more important to these teams than winning the championship is, because they've never really put a great deal of emphasis on the NASCAR championship. And remember that Penske comes from the era where big race wins carried more weight than championships did. 524. Sean posted: 11.08.2012 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What happened was that on their next-to-last pit stop, they didn't get the car full of fuel." Not Brad's fault. "his crash at Kansas" Definitely Jimmie's fault, and WAY more significant than any of Brad's or his crew's mistakes, where he lost fewer points combined than Johnson would have had he gone to the garage. I don't even like Brad and I think you're being unfair. "And as long as Roger Penske is the man in charge, there will never be as much emphasis put on the NASCAR program as it will be the IndyCar program." I am inclined to buy this with regard to Ganassi's struggles, but not with regard to Penske's. Rusty Wallace would have won the title in '93 if he hadn't had four straight DNFs (some of them likely caused by his Talladega crash), and we'd look at the Penske team very differently without that. Penske's Cup team was a LOT better than his CART team in 1998-99. Penske sold Michigan, Fontana, Rockingham, and Nazareth to ISC in the late '90s. How did that work out? Rockingham lost all its NASCAR dates, Nazareth was closed, and Fontana and Michigan were shut out of having CART or IRL races for several years (even though the open wheel races there were usually FAR better than the Cup races...) If he really cared so much more for open wheel racing, he would have kept those tracks himself rather than selling out to NASCAR - that transaction was good for him, but bad for racing as a whole. Yeah, the Penske Cup team has struggled, and yeah, it is very inconsistent, with so many Penske drivers having lower finishes in points than their stats would ordinarily indicate. But Penske's IndyCar team has also struggled with inconsistency in recent years (THREE titles in 18 years since Al Unser, Jr. in 1994?) Let's have a rundown of Penske's record since 1994: Both cars missed the Indy 500 in 1995 Both cars went winless in 1996, 1998, and 1999 Fired Paul Tracy although he was in his prime when Al Unser, Jr. was LONG past his Did win back-to-back CART titles with Gil de Ferran in 2000-01 (but he hardly DOMINATED either season) Went 1-2 at the 2001 Indy 500, but against an almost-over-the-hill Michael Andretti, an overrated Jimmy Vasser (the worst CART champion ever), badly underrated rookie Bruno Junqueira (the most unlucky driver of the last decade by FAR), and a wildly overrated (at open wheel) Tony Stewart, with literally no other competition Made a pit road faux pas on de Ferran's final pit stop at Indy in 2002...Castroneves steals the win due to fuel mileage but a LOT of people think Paul Tracy was the real winner Both cars both shockingly lost the 2002 IRL title to Sam Hornish and in 2003 to Scott Dixon (who is great, but didn't show a LOT in CART before switching sides) Did go 1-2 at the 2003 Indy 500 straight up Had mediocre 2004-2005 IRL seasons, but that's because Honda was dominating everything and Toyota was outmatched Returned to form (with Ganassi) in 2006 but Hornish's Indy 500 win was hollow (a caution with five laps left allowed him to recover from a pit road faux pas and win...and ultimately win the title as well since he won it on a tiebreaker) Both cars eliminated early in 2007 Castroneves did win at Indy in '09 but did little else Ryan Briscoe choked away the '09 title which he was guaranteed to win if he won at Twin Ring Motegi by crashing on his final pit stop when he was about to inherit the win and essentially the title otherwise Will Power choked away the '10 and '12 titles with final-race crashes (I think he was robbed in '11) Power and Castroneves both had several pit road faux pas in recent Indy 500s (some their fault, others not) Rather ugly Indy performances in '10-'12 Is this a team at the top of its game? No, quite frankly, it's not. Penske's IndyCar team hasn't been all that much better than its NASCAR team and prone to just as much inconsistency. In NASCAR, he has far more competition from powerhouse owners than he does in IndyCar. I'd actually say Penske's lost his edge considerably in recent years. Even CONTEMPLATING hiring David Stremme? Keeping Castroneves for 11 years when he's fired much better drivers a lot sooner? Keeping Ryan Briscoe for 5 years who has done pretty much nothing since 2009 (both wins were hollow)? I do think Will Power is a great driver, but way too mistake-prone on ovals (with 14/20 road/street races next year, he really SHOULD take it, but then I said the same thing this year). If Penske wants to keep 3 cars in IndyCar, he REALLY should hire somebody like Justin Wilson, Oriol Servià , or Sébastien Bourdais...smooth steady veterans who hardly ever make mistakes. Wilson and Bourdais are as good on twisties as Power but quite frankly BETTER on ovals, and Servià (despite his weak-looking statistical record) actually beat Power in points when they were teammates in 2008, the first year of the merger. Servià threatening to win the Indy 500 last year for Newman-Haas (after Paul Newman's death, when they were basically irrelevant) says a lot. Bottom line, Penske's declined on both sides, and has actually been more consistent in recent years in Cup than in IndyCar. His IndyCar team's still better, yes, but I really just think that's due to less competition (and because you CAN pretty much outspend people in open wheel and win, while it's a LOT harder in Cup to do that - see Bobby Ginn, Felix Sabates, Tim Beverley, and other rich sleazes of yore). While I do think Ganassi would rather have Indy 500 wins/IndyCar titles than NASCAR titles, I really don't think he'd rather have Grand-Am titles than Cup titles. Grand-Am titles are simply much easier for him to win, especially with (sigh) JPM (whom I used to be a huge fan of in CART) eliminating Pruett's championship competition at the Grand-Am race on the Indy road course... And I don't think Penske's NASCAR "failures" (and the team's still won every season since 1991, which it HASN'T done in open wheel) are caused by overengineering the cars. I just think Penske can't buy NASCAR results the way Hendrick and Roush can. He CAN buy IndyCar results that way. Penske has had any number of brilliant traditional NASCAR engineers: Buddy Parrott, Todd Parrott, Matt Borland, Paul Wolfe, etc... I also think a lot of Penske's problem has been the drivers. Rusty's problem quite frankly was Rusty wanting to veto all his crew chief's calls in the Robin Pemberton era, then being washed up. Jeremy Mayfield's problem was that he always was a loose cannon (well before becoming a methhead). Ryan Newman's problem is he just wasn't all that good and brilliant engineer Matt Borland made him look great. David Stremme? Who knows what that was about? It blows my mind when people say Penske's Cup team is all that bad (especially when its IndyCar team has been in decline). Ganassi's Cup team, however, is PUTRID since 2010. I'll buy that argument for Ganassi but not for Penske. 525. Anonymous posted: 11.08.2012 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Travis Kvapil leads a lap for the third straight race 526. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2012 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, when I was pointing out the mistakes, I was referring to the mistakes made by the TEAM, not necessarily the drivers, because them not getting it full of fuel at Charlotte was obviously not Brad's fault, though he paid the price for it in the points. As I said, he lost at least 13 points on the count of that mistake alone, 14 if you count the fact that Jimmie moved up one of the positions that Brad lost. And just because Penske puts more focus on IndyCar racing doesn't necessarily mean he's going to be more dominant there. For instance, his problems near the end of his CART days had to do with running an engine out o loyalty to the manufacturer that was woefully down on horsepower. Once he switched engines, he returned to his usual prominence. His failure to make the 1995 Indianapolis 500 had to do with a chassis that had so much drag that it slowed the car down the straightaways so much, that even running wide open it couldn't make the race. That same car nearly won the Michigan 500 later that year, so it probably would have been competitive in the race, had it made the race. And you're probably right about Jimmy Vasser being a mediocre champion, as he was the most mediocre IndyCar champion since Roger McCluskey won it for Lindsey Hopkins back in 1973, due in no small part to top-three finishes on all three 500-mile races that year. You also mention that Penske doesn't seem to be able to win the Indianapolis 500 or the championship any more. That's a big reason he tried to hire Ryan Hunter-Reay away from Michael Andretti, because Penske knows has only one driver capable of winning the Indianapolis 500, and that's Helio Castroneves, and only one capable of winning the championship in Will Power, and Power can't get it done on ovals. That's where he's lost the title in two of the last three years. His competition just tries to stay close to him on the road courses because they can really pounce on the ovals. 527. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think there's any argument for Gordon or Johnson over Petty yet." There never will be either unless they leave HMS and have success with some other organization, which quite frankly I think is unlikely. Yes Petty Enterprises was well backed financially, initially by Chrysler, then by STP once the factories backed off. But he also had to face stiff competition from strong factory backed efforts in the 60's such as the Fords of the Wood Brothers (and their gaggle of talented drivers), Junior Johnson (who had a really good driver named Junior Johnson, then Leroy Yarbrough) and Homlan Moody (who fielded cars for Fireball Roberts, Fred Lorenzen, Bobby Allison in the 70s, and oh yeah, a guy named Pearson) not to mention the Chryslers of Cotton Owens (had a guy named Pearson once), Norm K into the 70s with Bobby Isaac (most wins in '69, champ in '70) then Buddy Baker, and Mario Rossi (like every other owner that ever existed, Bobby Allison drove for him). Then in the 70s he had to battle the well funded Junior Johnson Chevy team, first with Bobby and Coca Cola, then Cale with Carling then Holly Farms. He had to battle the potent Woods/Pearson combo most of the time, Bud Moore's inconsistent yet powerful when they lasted Fords, and then Roger Penske showed up with AMC and eventually was able to recruit (you're not gonna believe this) Bobby Allison. And let's look at The King's career arc. After getting his first few wins in 1960 ans getting his feet under him, everything seemed in place for a dynasty. Lee was at the end of his racing days, he was gonna stay back and run the organization and groom Richard to the top. Then the '61 Daytona 500 qualifying races happened. With Lee out of commission, it was up to Richard and Maurice (in their early 20's). That made '61-'63 kind of a write off while he readjusted. Then '64 happened and the Hemi showed up for championship #1. But NASCAR outlawed the Hemi for '65, Chrysler flipped and sent Richard drag racing, wasting a year of his prime. He returned in '66 just in time for Pearson to decide to run a full schedule. He then had his mind bending '67 season, still underappreciated, for championship #2. 1968 saw him unable to keep up with Pearson and his Torino. So when Dodge announced the winged Dodge Daytona, Petty asked Plymouth where their's was. They said there wasn't one, so he made a one year switch to Ford! And he didn't miss a beat. We talk about how changing around is a bad thing, so what about that? One year later he was back in a Plymouth with the Superbird (and for the record, Richard has a grand total of ONE career win in the Bird). Then from '71 to '75, despite a switch from Plymouth to Dodge (not a huge deal, but not a non issue either) he won 4 of the 5 Winston Cups, giving him 6 total. He put up the good fight against the surging Johnson/Cale powerhouse in '76 and '77 but couldn't keep up, finishing 2nd both years. Then came 1978 and the Panzer Tank Dodge Magnum. This necessitated a mid season switch to GM which was already overflowing as the Fords were unreliable and Dodge had a friggin gigantic steel box for a car. He went winless that year, but in 1979 he won his most impressive title yet. Despite Petty Enterprises fading and pre-occupied with getting 18 year old son Kyle prepared to carry on the legacy he never wanted, and the potent DiGard team with all the money they sunk into the best crew members and Jaws himself, he still psyched them out and won an outclassed championship. From there he won a few more races as Petty Enterprises continued to fade and his own skills eroded and he hung on a good 10 years too long, ending his career on an 8 year winless streak. But still, look at that career arc. 200 wins and 7 titles? He is The King. 528. Paul posted: 11.08.2012 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Without a doubt, Richard Petty's '67 season is the greatest NASCAR season of all-time. Now, 27 wins in any season is nothing to sniff at, whether it be a 36-race season like it is now or a 48-race season like it was that year, but I think his most legendary feat that season that still stands today was his 10-race winning streak towards the end of the season that is the most impressive part of his season, especially considering how nobody can win 10 races in a year anymore, and The King did it all in a row. In an era where having mechanical issues were the norm, just being able to finish 10 races in a row was impressive (it still is today, in fact). But to not only finish 10 straight races (which, ironically, is how his streak started and ended; although he did have a string of 25 straight finishes at one point), but win every single race, and in an era with fierce opponents like the Allisons, Pearson, Yarborough, Hutcherson, Isaac, Paschal, and a young Buddy Baker, as well as strong independent drivers like Hylton, Sears, Castles, and Langley, makes that streak even greater than it already is. Words simply can't describe the greatness of that streak, as it is the greatest streak in NASCAR history. That season alone made Richard Petty become The King, and he lived up to that name for the remainder of his career (even though he was a shell of his former self by the time he hung it up). 529. David posted: 11.08.2012 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That made '61-'63 kind of a write off" Yep. 14 wins and a second-place points finish in 1963 is totally a write off. And yes, I am aware that many of those wins were on the short tracks. That comment was typed in jest. "Then from '71 to '75, despite a switch from Plymouth to Dodge (not a huge deal, but not a non issue either) he won 4 of the 5 Winston Cups, giving him 6 total." 1971 to 1975 is The King's crown if there ever was one. Not only did he win four out of five titles, he won three of five Daytona 500s, 55 other races, and in 1975 he went on something I like to call the Richard Petty Modern Era Eleven Race Run of Incredible and Inhuman Proportions (RPMEERRIIP for short), that ran from Charlotte in the spring to North Wilkesboro in the fall, in which he increased his lead from 287 to 862 points. 530. David posted: 11.08.2012 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just to clarify, the RPMEERRIIP is eleven straight races of Petty finishing either first or second. 531. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2012 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And of course DSFF, in the mid-70s, Petty also had Benny Parsons to deal with, and Parsons was a guy that you could hardly ever unnerve. And the team Parsons drove for back then was pretty much an All-Star team. Parsons' team included crew chief Travis Carter, who won the championship with Junior Johnson in 1978 before helping Hal Needham and Burt Reynolds start Mach 1 Racng in 1981. Parsons also had the era's greatest engine builder, Waddell Wilson, who had already had success with Ford in the 60s, building engines for Holman-Moodd even the Wood Brothers, and of course would garner his greatest successes in the 1980s with car owner Harry Ranier. Backed by those All-Stars, Parsons wasthe only driver other than Petty to win a championship from 1971-'75, taking the 1973 title. And you mention how shocking it was when Roger Penske got Bobby Alison to drive his Matadors after Gary Bettenhausen's sprint car accident in 1974. But remember that Allison had already driven for Penske at Indianapolis in 1973 in what was a forgetable experience, especially for Judy, so Penske and Allison had been aligned previously. The Allisons had become friends with Swede Savage from Savage's brief foray in NASCAR with Holman-Moody, and seeing all the tragic events of that race, including Savage's crash and the horrific pit accident that followed unnerved Judy so much that she told Penske she did not want Bobby in the 1974 race there, so Penske tore up the contract. Of course, Bobby did drive there in 1975, even leading the race briefly during the first series of pit stops. But after Bettenhausen's crash, Penske needed a driver, and Allison was not faring any better, so they joined forces at the Firecracker 400 that year, and won four times together, five if you include Allison's Daytona qualifying race win in 1975. 532. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You do realize I was joking when I said it was shocking Bobby drove for him, right? Bobby drove for EVERYBODY! He even drove a season for Rick Hendrick in 1994 in the #25 car. Alright, I made that up, but he did win for something like 11 different owners. In fact, I think it is more than that. He drove for and won for every significant owner there was, and won for the insignificant Stavola Brothers. He even drove a race for Maurice Petty and Petty Enterprises in 1985. And that one I didn't make up. Btw, my rebuttal about Brad is coming when I get a chance to sit at my computer for a little while. 533. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2012 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, Bobby didn't drive for everyone. He never drove for the Wood Brothers, though his brother Donnie and his protege Neil Bonnett both did, and both won for them. And I think Ed Hinton calculated that Bobby Allison won for 16 different teams a few years ago. 534. Talon64 posted: 11.08.2012 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Without a doubt, Richard Petty's '67 season is the greatest NASCAR season of all-time." Petty in 1967 is one of just 3 times that a driver has led a season in wins, poles, top 5's, top 10's, laps completed, laps led, average start and average finish. You could call it the Octuple Crown. Petty did it twice, 1967 and 1971, and Cale Yarborough's the only modern era driver to accomplish when he did so in 1978. Jimmie Johnson's currently leading the 2012 seasons in wins, poles, top 5's, top 10's, laps led and average finish, the first driver to accomplish at least a Sextuple Crown since Yaborough in '78, although he's too far off in avg start and laps completed to have a shot at all 8. Jeff Gordon did one better in 2001 on the way to the championship with a Septuple Crown: Wins, poles, top 5's, top 10's, laps led, avg start and avg finish. He only missed laps completed, in which he was 4th. It's something else for Richard Petty to hang is hat on, but the fact that Cale Yarborough's the only modern-era driver to pull it off adds a lot to his legacy. 535. Talon64 posted: 11.08.2012 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie Johnson's currently leading the 2012 seasons in wins, poles, top 5's, top 10's, laps led and average finish, the first driver to accomplish at least a Sextuple Crown since Yaborough in '78, although he's too far off in avg start and laps completed to have a shot at all 8. Jeff Gordon did one better in 2001 on the way to the championship with a Septuple Crown: Wins, poles, top 5's, top 10's, laps led, avg start and avg finish. He only missed laps completed, in which he was 4th." okay I just noticed the problem here..... Johnson could be the first to have a Sextuple since Gordon in 2001 when he had the Septuple. 536. Paul posted: 11.08.2012 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Going by Talon64's criteria, here's how many of those eight categories that Earnhardt, Gordon, and Johnson led at the end of their respective championship seasons. Just for fun, I included the two years that Gordon scored the most overall points, but did not win the championship (2004, 2007). Dale Earnhardt 1980: 4 (Top fives [tied], top tens, laps completed, average finish) 1986: 4 (Top tens, laps completed, laps led, average finish) 1987: 6 (Everything except poles and average start. BIG SURPRISE!) 1990: 5 (Wins, top fives, top tens [tied], poles [I found this surprising], laps led) 1991: 2 (Top tens, average finish) 1993: 3 (Top tens [tied], laps completed, average finish) 1994: 3 (Top fives, top tens, average finish) Jeff Gordon 1995: 5 (Wins, top tens, poles, laps led, average start) 1997: 2 (Wins, top fives) 1998: 6 (Everything except laps completed and laps led) 2001: 7 (Everything except laps completed) 2004: 2 (Top tens, average finish) 2007: 5 (Top fives, top tens, poles, laps led, average finish) Jimmie Johnson 2006: 2 (Top tens, average finish) 2007: 1 (Wins) 2008: 3 (Poles, laps led, average start) 2009: 4 (Wins, top fives [tied], laps led, average start) 2010: 3 (Top fives, laps led, average finish) As you can see, Dale's '91 season looks pretty similar to Jeff's '97 and Jimmie's '06 seasons as far as which categories they led in those seasons. Counting 2007, Jeff has accomplished the pentuple (5) in 4 out of 6 of his championship/most overall points seasons, while Dale did so only twice in 7 championship seasons and Jimmie has never accomplished this. I know I ruffled some feathers during our "Gordon vs. Johnson" debate a few weeks ago by calling Jimmie the 2007 "paper champion", but just by comparing their numbers from that season (Jeff leading in five categories, Jimmie leading in one category), I don't know what else to call him because he certainly didn't deserve it that year. 537. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Earnhardt led the league in poles once? Wow. 538. David posted: 11.08.2012 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well DSFF, Bobby didn't drive for everyone. He never drove for the Wood Brothers, though his brother Donnie and his protege Neil Bonnett both did, and both won for them. And I think Ed Hinton calculated that Bobby Allison won for 16 different teams a few years ago." Wow!! A three sentence post by cjs!! 539. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Earnhardt also led the league in most championships among active drivers in '93 and '94. Kinda rare for somebody not named Petty for the champion to be the most prolific championship winner at the beginning of the season. JJ was tied for the most at the start of '10 when he won it, and he may do it again this year if his outstanding luck continues, but then again nothing any HMS driver does really matters anyways. Petty did it 4 times ('72 tied, '74, '75, and '79). Whether or not Jeff did it in '01 depends on how you feel about Earnhardt in '01 (was intending to run the full schedule, died in the first race). Of course, had Richard retired when he should have (well before 1990) Dale would have 4 ('90 tied, '91, '93, '94). 540. 18fan posted: 11.08.2012 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Once Richard started missing races in 1989, he should've hung it up either after that year or after the 1990 season. 541. Paul posted: 11.08.2012 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but then again nothing any HMS driver does really matters anyways." What if Jeff or Kasey dethrone the son of Dale for Most Popular Driver? Now THAT would be impressive; maybe even more so than if Brad beats Jimmie in these next two races. All kidding aside, I disagree with that premise. I think Jeff's win at Pocono this year was pretty special considering that it officially moved him into 3rd place on NASCAR's all-time win list, passing Bobby Allison in the process (sort of ironic that it happened at the track that ended Bobby's career and made his 85 career wins permanent), especially considering his terrible luck and lack of speed this year. Also, his run at Richmond this year when he charged all the way up from about 26th place when the red flag flew all the way up to 2nd place to make the Chase and eliminate the "JGR driver who decided to show up during the Chase when it was too late" was damn impressive. If Jeff has better luck this season, even with the lack of speed, he's in the top 3 in points, which I find more impressive than what Jimmie has done this year with a superior car and a cheating crew chief who should have been suspended for the first 6 races but wasn't (what a surprise). 542. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will try to compile this list. It is guys who entered the season with the most titles among active drivers who won another title that season. 1949: Red Byron. He won the first championship in NASCAR, the modified title, then won the first Strictly Stock title. I'm counting it. 1953: Herb Thomas. Tied with Tim Flock among active driver for titles entering the season (1). 1957: I refuse to acknowledge this one. Tied with other active drivers with one title at the stat of the season, he won his second. But two (should have been 3) time champ Herb Thomas wasn't in the field because of the worst incident in NASCAR history involving Buck's car owner and teammate giving Buck his other title. 1959: Lee Petty. Only two time champ (technically tied with Buck, but not in my mind) at the beginning, won it again. 1963: Joe Weatherly. One of a bunch of one time champs, he won it again. 1965: Ned Jarrett. See above. 1967: Richard Petty. Make that 5 total for the King! Again though, ignoring Buck Baker who attempted a brief comeback. 1969: tied with Richard with 2 at the beginning of the year, became only the second 3 time champ. 1972: Richard Petty. Tied with The Fox with 3 initally, won #4. 1974: Richard Petty. First time a guy all alone officially with most titles among active drivers won it all. 1975: Richard Petty. They didn't call him King Richard just cause it rolls off your tongue. Also had the RPMEERRIIP (love it). 1979: Richard Petty. The "Five Time" of this category. Already had doubled his nearest competitor (Cale), won #7. Screwed it up for a lot of people until...... 1993: Dale Earnhardt. Already a five timed, two more than closest "competitor" DW, he won it all again. 1994: Dale Earnhardt. Unbreakable record huh? Well, I guess he never did "break" it. 2001: Jeff Gordon. I'll count it. For 35 of the 36 races he was the only 3 time champ, won #4. 2010: Jimmie Johnson. Tied with his wingman entering the season, won #5. As you can see not all were really quality wins, really only Lee Petty in '59, Pearson '69, The King's last 4, Dale's 2, then Jeff and Jimmie had quality wins in this category. Tough to be on top of the mountain and stay there, especially when it involves a career's worth of work as the quality wins represent. 543. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoops, should have mentioned 1957 was Buck Baker (technically) and 1969 was the one and only David Pearson. That's what I get for doing this on my phone. 544. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And for the record, I'm not totally serious when I say HMS drivers accomplishments don't count, they just need to be looked at for what they are, inflated. 545. Paul posted: 11.08.2012 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know that DSFF, but I think that even though he's an HMS driver, Jeff has done very well this season in spite of his team. If not for him, HMS has only 3 teams in the Chase, but Jeff flat-out put that team on his back and raced his way in with three straight top 3 finishes to finally put himself in form for a good season finish. A lesser driver would not have done that (see Edwards, Carl), nor would a driver who folds under pressure (see Busch, Kyle). Jeff did neither, and earned his way into the Chase. Even though he won't win the championship, it may be the most impressive Chase berth in the history of Brian France's brain child. Also, would you please stop with the whole "Jeff is Jimmie's wingman" mockery? Yeah, so he puts the betterment of the team over himself, what a "wingman" he is. I guess that means Troy Aikman is Emmitt Smith's wingman since he let Emmitt get all the stats so that the team did better. Would you rather Jeff passed Jimmie and put his teammate's championship hopes at risk for the sake of trying to get win #87? I said it before and I'll say it again: Jeff is simply playing the game the way it's become, which is a team game rather than an individual game with teams competing against one another. Jeff is simply a good soldier who just does what he's told to do, which is a shame because I could tell that he wanted to pass Jimmie at Martinsville, but stopped because he knew he wasn't supposed to. It's a shame that this sport has become regulated and manipulated by the people who aren't driving the race cars trying to control the races because they've really ruined the credibility of the sport and the championship. And just for the record, I am not, and nor will I ever be, a Hendrick Motorsports fan. I'm a fan of Gordon's, but couldn't care less about any of the other three drivers. I tried being a Roush fan because I've always sort of leaned towards Ford, but that went away once I figured out what a scumbag he was. The only big teams in Cup where I like every driver in that team are Penske (which will end after this season once the "fortunate son" takes over the #22) and the Wood Brothers. Aside from that, I only pull for individual drivers and not the teams or manufacturers. When Kenseth goes to JGR next year, he'll only be the second Toyota driver I pull for, with Reutimann being the first. 546. David posted: 11.08.2012 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm a fan of Gordon's" "When Kenseth goes to JGR next year, he'll only be the second Toyota driver I pull for" Was this the case in 2006? 547. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2012 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing with Jeff is that he is tenacious as hell. That whole "Refuse To Lose" deal was initially a motivational gimmick by Evernham, but it was extremely fitting for Jeff. He never gives up and adversity actually makes him better. As for the wingman deal, that just bugs the shit out of me. I can understand not passing the championship leader for 6th when you are out of the title hunt. But not for the lead. Martinsville left a really bad taste in my mouth. And I even go to Texas '10. JJ's crew was doing bad. So they took Jeff's crew which was performing well over to the 48 and left Jeff with the scrubs. That is where a true competitor says "what the f**k?, give me my team back!". He still had something to fight for (avoiding a 2nd winless season in 3 years which happened). I just have a feeling that if they tried that to Dale or The King or Bobby, things would have been different. They might drive for the same organization, but they are two different teams with two different sponsors. Aikman and Emmitt were on the same team, wore the same uniform, and all points scored were for both of them. And for the record, I am very well aware Big E did the "wingman" deal in the '01 Daytona 500. I would say bad things about him doing that, but he died in doing so. I'd say he payed the price for that and thensome. 548. Paul posted: 11.08.2012 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haha, well I was a bit mad at Matt for turning Jeff at Bristol, but after the shove and payback by Jeff at Chicagoland that year (which Jeff won), I was over it. As in example of seeing a sponsor on a car that actually makes me want to buy that product, I started eating at Arby's a lot once they started sponsoring Matt in the Busch Series in '07, which may be the only time that has ever worked on me. Then he kind of ticked me off when he asked if "Jeff took his helmet off this time" after the two Jeffs had a scuffle at Texas in 2010, but I got over it after seeing him win at Texas last year and the emotion that he showed after winning his first race in two years. I know some people thought the '03 season was boring because Matt was leading the points all season, but to me that was a textbook "You can't catch me season" because no matter how well the other drivers did, they couldn't touch Matt because he never had a bad day that season, and I'll never understand why Matt isn't given the respect he deserves because he truly drove a flawless season in '03 and deserved the championship that year. And at least he was being himself when he was "being robotic" and not like Jimmie, who is only acting that way so as to represent the NASCAR Corporation. For that, I have nothing but respect for Matt, both on and off the race track. And speaking of Jeff not taking his helmet off, I want to mention something that's been on my mind about that for a while. On one of those dumb Top Ten shows on SPEED (any show that lists Kyle Busch's weekend sweep at Bristol '09 as the greatest moment in Bristol history has no credibility), Jimmy Spencer in his "infinite wisdom" said that Jeff should have been a man and taken his helmet off. Well Mr. E, why didn't you take your helmet off when you ran up to Wally Dallenbach's car at Dover '96 (in a purple driving suit, I might add)? Doesn't seem very manly to me. Or how about when Bobby Allison left his helmet on when he fought Cale at Daytona '79. Not to mention the fact that on that same Top Ten show, Bobby said that he preferred keeping his helmet on because he didn't want to get punched in the face (or beat his nose on someone else's fist, for that matter). Using Mr. E's logic, that makes Bobby Allison look pretty unmanly, which he is anything but. The fact is, taking your helmet off only makes you vulnerable to getting punched in the face. If I had to choose getting punched in the face and getting punched in the head with protection on, I'd choose the second option. But maybe that explains Jimmy's lack of intelligence he's displayed in his announcing career. Sorry about the rant, but it's been on my mind for a while and I had to let it out. 549. Paul posted: 11.09.2012 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, you're comparing what Jeff did in the "corporate racing" era of NASCAR to what Petty, Dale, or Allison would have done in the "blue collar" era of NASCAR. Fortunately for them, they never had to deal with this crap, and because of that, none of those three will ever have their legacies tarnished by the current mindset displayed in NASCAR. Don't get me wrong, I hate what Jeff did too because as a fan of this sport, I want to see drivers fighting for the lead rather than just sit idlely in 2nd place behind their teammate. But in an era where money talks and the betterment of the team is valued more than individual success, I can understand why Jeff did what he did. I don't like it, but I can understand it. Also, I give Earnhardt a pass on what he did in the '01 Daytona 500 because this was his 4th year as a Cup team owner, and it must have given him great pride seeing two of his cars, one driven by the brother of one of his closest friends who had never won a Cup race before and the other driven by his son, racing 1-2 on the track, and he suddenly became a car owner on the track when he should have remained a driver. This caused Earnhardt to become a blocker for his two cars as he started racing defensively over the final few laps holding off would-be competitors because he wanted his two drivers to battle for the win. I can understand what Earnhardt was going through right there, and unfortunately is was a decision that wound up costing him his life because he tried to dictate the outcome of the race when he should have just raced and let the chips fall as they may. But like you said, he paid the ultimate price for his selfless act on the track near the end of that race, and for that I think it's best if we just let his legacy rest in peace. 550. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.09.2012 - 7:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS & DSFF I am changing the bet that I made earlier in the season between you two. Now If CJS is wrong and Keselowski wins the Championship CJS owes us at least 1 backflip and if DSFF is wrong and Keselowski doesn't win the title he owes CJS 48 bucks. 551. Paul posted: 11.09.2012 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) BK Racing will change one of their car numbers (#83 and #93) to #23, and apparently got approval from NASCAR despite the fact that R3 Motorsports has used that number in Cup this season. There's rumors that David Reutimann may return to the team in 2013 since neither Cassill or Kvapil have contracts for next year, but he just as well could return to TBR or the new XXXtreme Motorsports team that he will drive this weekend. Scott Riggs, who has most start-and-parked in all three series this season, has been offered by SHR to be a driver coach for Danica next season, as well as testing their cars next season. He'll also have the opportunity to drive a 4th SHR car in selective races next season if sponsorship is found. The #17 and #99 teams could swap crews next season, including crew chief Jimmy Fennig, who may be Stenhouse's last hope at maturity. Supposedly Scott Graves, who has crew chiefed the #6 Cup team part-time this season, will move to the #17 team next year. Austin Dillon will drive the #33 RCR car in the Daytona 500 in 2013. 552. Sean posted: 11.09.2012 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For instance, his problems near the end of his CART days had to do with running an engine out o loyalty to the manufacturer that was woefully down on horsepower. Once he switched engines, he returned to his usual prominence. His failure to make the 1995 Indianapolis 500 had to do with a chassis that had so much drag that it slowed the car down the straightaways so much, that even running wide open it couldn't make the race. That same car nearly won the Michigan 500 later that year, so it probably would have been competitive in the race, had it made the race." Yeah, I know Reynard-Honda-Firestone was destroying every other chassis-engine-tire combination at the time but Paul Tracy managed to win three straight races and lead the '97 points for much of the season without it. I think Al Unser, Jr.'s descent into alcoholism and rotating teammates post-Tracy were even bigger factors in the decline than the wrong car combination. I understand why they missed the Indy 500 (they brought back their dominant 1994 package which sucked because they paid little attention to the chassis in '94 and instead exploited a loophole to give themselves overwhelming horsepower, a loophole that was closed in '95). I agree that given the attrition in that race and JV coming back from 2 laps down to win, the Penske cars might have been competitive in the race itself. "And you're probably right about Jimmy Vasser being a mediocre champion, as he was the most mediocre IndyCar champion since Roger McCluskey won it for Lindsey Hopkins back in 1973, due in no small part to top-three finishes on all three 500-mile races that year." Well, I said worst CART champion. I did not say worst open-wheel champion post-'73. He's better than all the pre-2003 IRL champions except Tony Stewart, Kenny Brack, and PROBABLY Sam Hornish. Buzz Calkins is clearly the worst IndyCar champion, probably ever. However, I know that he essentially owed his career to Ganassi figuring out the Reynard-Honda-Firestone combination before the other teams came on, and it's true that Alex Zanardi and JPM blew him out of the water. Considering that Zanardi himself was blown out of the water by Tony Kanaan when they were teammates in 2001 (before his near-fatal crash) and I'm not even THAT impressed with Kanaan (although he totally deserves an Indy 500 win), it doesn't look good for Vasser... "You also mention that Penske doesn't seem to be able to win the Indianapolis 500 or the championship any more. That's a big reason he tried to hire Ryan Hunter-Reay away from Michael Andretti, because Penske knows has only one driver capable of winning the Indianapolis 500, and that's Helio Castroneves, and only one capable of winning the championship in Will Power, and Power can't get it done on ovals. That's where he's lost the title in two of the last three years. His competition just tries to stay close to him on the road courses because they can really pounce on the ovals." Castroneves will not win Indy again. He's fading fast, although much of that was that he dominated against a shallow split field and now faces much more competition (same deal with Kanaan, but he at least still always runs well at Indy). I hope I'm wrong but Scott Dixon, Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan, and Ryan Hunter-Reay are the only guys I can see winning in their current cars. I think Sebastien Bourdais and Justin Wilson would be easy threats if somebody gave them a car to match their talent. As for Will Power, I could actually see him doing it. It took Dario over half a decade until he suddenly and randomly figured out ovals (he was a road/street specialist and choker - 1999 CART title - much like Power, and it's only his annoying level of luck that has won him SO MANY titles/Indy 500s). Power's going to continue to keep his Penske ride as long as he can dominate on the twisties, and there's going to be some year he's going to be given a killer car so even HE can't screw it up (much like shitty restrictor plate driver Jimmie Johnson at the 2006 Daytona 500...) 553. Sean posted: 11.09.2012 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And for the record, I'm not totally serious when I say HMS drivers accomplishments don't count, they just need to be looked at for what they are, inflated." I realize they have consistently dominant equipment and a legacy of cheating, but the same could be said for the Junior Johnson team for a lot of its history and nobody rates Cale Yarborough or Darrell Waltrip lower due to that. Nobody rates drivers who dominated in the '70s (when there were usually about 5 cars capable of winning for most of the decade) lower than those who dominated in the more competitive decades (and no, the 2010s does not look as competitive as the previous two decades did). Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson are clearly top ten. Just not top five. I'd put Gordon 6th and Johnson 8th with Darrell Waltrip in between... 554. Smiff_2 posted: 11.09.2012 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I were Roush, I'd consider the whole crew chief thing for next year a little 'gamey'. Although, the calm, cool demeanor of Fennig would be PERFECT for Stenhouse, he'd ALSO probably help edwards out, too. Although if I were Jack, I'd be putting him with Stenhouse. He's clearly the future of Roush. You could say Edwards is, too, but honestly...if this mediocrity keeps up, you KNOW Carl's gonna be looking to move away after his current contract expires (which won't be 'til the end of...what, 2015? 2016?) 555. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.09.2012 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The difference is that Cale and Darrell also had success elsewhere. And I wanna say I am not saying Gordon and JJ are anything less than great drivers. They are brilliant behind the wheel. But their numbers have to be taken with a grain or two of salt. Yeah Jeff is 3rd all time on the wins list, and JJ is 3rd on the championship list. But are either really the 3rd best driver ever? Can either touch the holy trinity of Earnhardt, Petty, and Pearson? I say no. But they are certainly two of the best. 556. JG24FanForever posted: 11.09.2012 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But their numbers have to be taken with a grain or two of salt." I believe Jeff is exspunged from this, because the fact is, coming into Hendrick the organization, wasn't what it was when JJ came into it. This is very old and boring to have to repeat the same thing over and over and over.... Jeff Gordon according to Bobby Allison:"Is the smartest driver i've ever seen,even smarter than David Pearson" Jeff has proved himself with 5 differant Crew Chiefs. Ray Evernham: 47 wins( 3 title's and 4 straight Top 2 points finishes) Brian Whitesell: 2 wins(in the first two races without Ray) Robbie Loomis: 23 wins( 1 title, and 1 close third in 2004) Steve Letarte: 10 wins( Should have been Champ in 2007) Alan Gutsafson: 4 wins( Might get a Top 5 points showing this year) He's won multiple: Daytona 500's,Southern 500's,Both Road-Race's,Championship's with different Crew Chief's and is still relevant after almost 700 starts in the brutal Cup division. I understand the need to devalue Gordon's accomplishment's, but at the same time I don't think you can. 557. Paul posted: 11.09.2012 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Johnson's numbers should be taken with a grain of salt because a.) he's only had one non-interim crew chief, and b.) he entered HMS at the perfect time because they were already the number one team in NASCAR. Like I said before, Jeff Gordon is J.D. Rockefeller to Jimmie Johnson's J.D. Rockefeller, Jr. The elder of the two helped build their organization into the best in their respective industries, while the younger of the two benefited from their predecessor's success and entered a large team/company right off the bat. As a result, J.D. Rockefeller, Jr. made more money than his father and Jimmie Johnson has won more championships than his teammate. Does that make them better than their predecessors? No. All it means is that they entered an organization in the right place at the right time. I give them great credit for achieving as much success as they did/have, but a large part of that has to do with the size of their organizations when they took over. They didn't build a great organization, they just inherited one. 558. Paul posted: 11.09.2012 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) During Nationwide practice, Kenny Wallace and Jeff Hammond just said that Brendan Gaughan will be racing full-time for RCR next season, and it will most likely be in the Nationwide Series. If that is in fact the case, which I hope it is, we can add Brendan's name to next year's Nationwide championship contenders. 559. Anonymous posted: 11.09.2012 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick to Stewart-Haas in 2014. 560. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2012 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smiff_2, as far as I know, Fennig is going to be Stenhouse's crew chief next year, unless I missed something, because it's going to be the same team and car number that Kenseth has had. I just think that, without someone to mentor him on track, Stenhouse could plunge into disaster because of his go for broke style. That's one reason I've said that it would have ben a good idea for Stenhouse to be driving the #21 car next year, and have Trevor Bayne, who I think is more mature than Stenhouse, drive in Cup next year. But again, I suspect that Roush may be saving the #6 car for Bayne, if he can keep him and doesn't have to release him for sponsorship reasons. And on the news front, it was announced today that Kevin Harvick would be leaving Richard Childress Racing after next season to join Stewart-Haas Racing in 2014 to team up with Tony Stewart, and probably Ryan Newman and Danica Patrick. 561. Dave #38 Fan posted: 11.09.2012 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) so childress has lost sadler, coulter, and now harvick, and burton's contract is up after 2013. their future looks like it will depend on the dillons, menard, and maybe kurt busch and tim george jr. r.i.p. rcr, it was nice knowing you. 562. Paul posted: 11.09.2012 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It wouldn't surprise me one bit if RCR moves Brendan Gaughan up to their Cup team full-time if they don't re-sign Jeff Burton because they may need sponsorship. 563. Sean posted: 11.09.2012 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd guess Harvick will be replacing Newman rather than Stewart-Haas going to four cars... 564. Paul posted: 11.09.2012 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This could be a sign that RCR is heading down the path of mediocrity. With EGR changing engine suppliers next year, their Cup team struggling for top ten finishes on a consistent basis, too much focus being put on their Nationwide and Truck teams, and now their best driver leaving the team after next season, RCR may be officially irrelevant in 2014. Judging by how Austin has run in his limited Cup starts, I don't have much hope for his Cup career since in Cup, you can't buy success with equipment like you can in Nationwide and Truck. 565. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.09.2012 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Honestly, RCR is already in the "mediocre" category. The question is their survival. With EGR going to HMS support, everything Chevrolet goes through HMS for sure. This may sound surprising, but losing Harvick, in and of itself, isn't that big of a deal. But you need a good driver to replace him. He is a replaceable driver, but not with just anyone. As has been said, with also losing Sadler and Coulter, who will they have? If KuBu were to race directly under Childress, Richard would eventually shoot him with one of his hunting rifles. I'm not kidding. So right now the future of RCR is a badly faded Burton and a bunch of silver spooners (the Dillons, Menard, Gaughan). And then there is the question of whether or not Menard and his Daddy's billions of dollars will stick around. It just seems to me that the rats are leaving the ship. This is where Richard needs to make a huge splash and find somebody big to hire. He needs to do this anyways. When the anchor of your organization is Harvick, you need to do better. 566. Paul posted: 11.09.2012 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF, you'll love this. Former RCR "silver spoon" driver John Wes Townley hit the wall during Truck practice yesterday. 567. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.09.2012 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Wrecks Weekly John Wrecks Weekly John Wrecks Weekly John Wrecks Weekly John Wrecks Weekly John Wrecks Weekly 568. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.09.2012 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of Irrelevant I believe that 2013 will be the last year of Jeff Gordon's relevance before becoming a permanent Also-Ran. 569. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2012 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I disagree with your assessment of Austin Dillon in his couple of Cup starts. After all, if I remember right, he ran up in the top 15 at Michigan before an unscheduled pit stop and ill-timed caution trapped him one lap behind. Otherwise, he could have contended for a top 10-12 finish in that race. And his lone Cup start last year was a success, in my view. He stayed out of trouble and finished the race, which is all he wanted to do. Where he was running or finished didn't matter. But Harvick's announcement today may be another signal to Childress to better his engine program, as I think a big reason he made this decision had to do with Tony Stewart's alliance with Hendrick Motorsports. You add that to Chip Ganassi's announcement last week that his team is abandoning the engine program it started with Childress several years ago. Harvick's announcement today was a second warning shot at the ECR engine program in as many weeks. I actually think Austin is going to be pretty good in the Cup series, along with younger brother Ty, who has to make a move on James Buescher tonight if he's going to have a chance at the Truck Series title next weekend. I've said that my six drivers in the Nationwide/Truck Series to watch in Cup in the future are Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., Austin Dillon, Justin Allgaier, Trevor Bayne, Ty Dillon, and Cole Whitt. Of those, only Allgaier has not lived up to it. But now we can add the names of James Buescher, who if the right combination of things happen, could clinch the Truck Series title tonight, and Nelson Piquet, Jr., who's definately gained a boatload of confidence after pulling off the move of the year on Matt Crafton at Vegas to win that race. Parker Kligerman has also found my radar, because since he joined forces with Red Horse Racing, he's scored his first victory, and could have three. And let's not forget Ryan Blaney, who scored his first Truck Series win at Iowa in Brad Keselowski's #29 truck, and may have scored his first Nationwide victory last week, had that race gone another two or three laps. So that's 10 drivers to potentially watch for the future. Penske rarely picks a bad driver, but he found two good ones in Kligerman, who's no longer part of Penske's future, and Blaney. I didn't add any K&N drivers, because that's too far away to forecast, though there are some really good ones there, as well. Two years ago, I didn't have much hope for the near future, but now that's changed with 10 drivers in Nationwide/Truck, and potentially as many as four of five more in the K&N series. 570. murb posted: 11.09.2012 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not surprised in the least bit about Harvick going to SHR in 2014. RCR is clearly on a downward spiral this year. Basically, instead of being the "Blue Collar Guys You Can Admire" team they used to be, they've turned into the "Dirtiest Players in the Game Who Will Pull Low Ball Moves and Also Give Up On You If Your Last Name Isn't Dillon" team. It's really a shame. The biggest thing I'm worried about for Harv is that SHR will be going from two full time teams to four in a span of two years. It will be interesting to see what kind of affect that expansion will be. 571. Eric posted: 11.09.2012 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, There is something your forgot about SHR. Danica's sponsor GoDaddy.com is only with Danica through the 2013 season. If Danica races in cup next season like she did this season, I have a hard time to see a sponsor wanting her if GoDaddy.com leaves. 572. Eric posted: 11.09.2012 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin leaving RCR isn't a shock. RCR has even bigger question marks going into 2014. I think Kurt Busch will be taking Kevin's Spot, but there would be the question of leadership in that organization. I don't see Jeff Burton being back in 2014. Paul Menard to me doesn't seem to be the type of a driver that would fit the Jeff Burton role. Kurt Busch can't be a mentor to Austin either. 573. murb posted: 11.09.2012 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's an excellent point about GoDaddy Eric, but I disagree. With as much buzz and attention she brings, surely there is some type of company out there who would want her, just to get their name out there. But you're right as far as the whole SHR dynamic goes. It could pose as a temporary problem while getting ready for 2014. 574. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.09.2012 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This news about Harvick heading st SHR in 2014 is not surprising at all, in fact it was more so expected by me. In 2009 when RCR was going through a down year, it was rumored left and right that Tony would start a third team for him. Luckily for Tony, he will remain the "anchor" to his team as Harvick is no threat at all to end up being a better leader. And yes, althrough Richard may be high on Kurt Busch right now I definitely don't expect it to stay that way. After Kurt creates a toxic environment by pissing off his crew chief and all the crew members, and trashes the equipment, Richard will do the same thing that Roush and Penske did and that's fire his ass. 575. Scott B posted: 11.11.2012 - 2:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Bliss being the set-up man & nanny to Danica? Welcome to the worst job in racing. This is a guy whose only full season in Cup came at age 40, who never had a long term deal with a good team, who does start & parks just to keep his name out there... mentoring the princess who gets everything handed to her. I may throw up a little bit. 576. ch posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor for the #30 should be Swan Racing, as the team transferred over from Inception. 577. Anonymous posted: 01.30.2016 - 11:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski's #2 Miller Lite Dodge he finished second in this race with sold for $150,000 at the 2016 Barrett-Jackson car auction as a fundraiser for Paralyzed Veterans of America. 578. TheDewCrew posted: 04.28.2020 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race started Jimmie's dominant stretch at Texas, winning 6 of 10 Texas races, from this race through the Spring of 2017. Prior to this race, Jimmie had only conquered Texas once, on a pass for the lead with 2 to go, in the 2007 Chase race ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: