|| *Comments on the 2013 Auto Club 400:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. Kenny posted: 03.22.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (5) (2) Hi billy mays hear for an awesome race weekend are you tired of Sundays with nothing on tv? Are you board on Sundays well join the NASCAR craze withe billy mays for one gray weekend I gurentee it I miss him XD 2. 13 posted: 03.22.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad qualified great but it doesnt matter except for pit selection 3. Talon64 posted: 03.22.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Denny Hamlin picks up his 13th career Sprint Cup Series pole, and his 3rd pole at Fontana ties Kurt Busch for the most all time. Since her Daytona 500 pole, Danica Patrick has now qualified 40th or worse in 3 of 4 races (39.5 avg start). 4. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2013 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) princess sparkle pony is struggling. Denny "The Ego" Hamlin wins the pole. 5. The Final Gear posted: 03.22.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can we stop calling Danica Princess Sparkle Pony? I watch My Little Pony and I don't want people thinking it's a My Little Pony thing because that show doesn't deserve to have an association with the PR wondergirl but horrible driver. That's just a pet peeve of mine. 6. David posted: 03.22.2013 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Greg Biffle and Brad Keselowski both had their cars' engines changed, and they qualified second and third anyway. 7. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2013 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fair enough Final Gear, you asked and gave solid reasoning, so I will retire that nickname. But we need to come up with another one. 8. Kenny posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @the final gear You watch mlp are you a brony? I've watched it and its s hood show I thank(im just a cartoon fan as a NASCAR fan) don't you thank that rainbow dash is like Kyle Busch?(I thank so) 9. jabber1990 posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sonic Rainboom your argument is invalid 10. David posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, how about the Baroness of Bad Runs? Or the Duchess of DNFs? 11. murb posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But we need to come up with another one." TP. It can stand for just about anything you want. "The Princess" "Totally Pathetic" "Tony's Problem" "Tainted Pole" "Team Punisher" 12. murb posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) By the way, shoutout to my man Kyle Petty who called Hamlin and Logano "Junior High Cheerleaders" on Nascar Live today... 13. The Final Gear posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Kenny Yes I'm admittedly a brony. I think the show is really good in several departments and I watch it for those reason. I could see Rainbow Dash being Kyle Busch and when Rainbow Dash gets mad then I can see Kurt Busch as well. I'm more of a Rarity fan myself though. I like the Baroness of Bad Runs but I think the Baroness of Backmarkers has a better ring to it. 14. jabber1990 posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) so what is Princess Sparkle Ponies Cutie Mark? is it the Godaddy.com logo? 15. jabber1990 posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trevor Bayne went to the CNN Headquarters in January or February 2012 and he stood in front of a Bluescreen and said "dont be putting no pink ponies or anything behind me" I think Trevor is a Brony! 16. jabber1990 posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) oh and Murb, I like "Tony's Problem" 17. David posted: 03.22.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Baroness of Backmarkers. Now that is good. 18. jabber1990 posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) whats both funny, and ironly sad about Danica is if you notice in the nationwide series, when she ran good, or decent, she would get into somebody elses crash, or her own crash when she doesnt' crash then she just had a shitty car and finished terrible and I have another question people refer to Danica as "in a Hendrick Car," but for all those years we refered to Stewart as "Tonys' cars" and to continue that thought, what makes them "Hendrick cars" I thought Tony built the cars but used Hendrick Motors, and if thats the case why dont we call the EGR, or Childress cars as "Hendrick cars" 19. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm liking these nicknames. I just saw somebody call her princess sparkle pony online and thought it was funny. But I'm retiring it. Here are other driver nicknames which I will try to prioritize by car number. Brad Keselowski- Bad Brad Austin Dillon- Woody (from Toy Story) Kasey Kahne- Too Bland To Name (a takeoff of Too Tough To Tame) Marcos Ambrose- The Awesome Aussie or The Aussie Danica- Baroness of the Backmarkers (already starting to grow on me) Denny Hamlin- Denny "The Ego" Hamlin Sam Hornish- Sideways Sam Tony Stewart- Smoke Greg Biffle- The Biff, Da Biff, Biff Ricky Stenhouse- Swervin Stenhouse Kyle Busch- Pee Wee Matt Kenseth- The Stealth Bomber, The Silent Assassin Joey Logano- Moldy Bread Jeff Gordon- WONDERBOY HAHAHA Paul Menard- The Empire Jeff Burton- The Mayor Jimmie Johnson- The Emotionless Juggernaut Mark Martin- The Kid Kurt Busch- The Outlaw..... NOT!!! Dale Jr- June 20. Paul posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kyle Petty also referred to Jeff Gordon as "old school" on SPEED earlier today, and considering Petty is as old school as it gets in this day and age, I consider that an official emblem that he's bestowed upon Gordon. I agree that Denny and Joey's "feud" resembles something you would see in junior high, but I don't think they quite fit the bill as being cheerleaders. Cheerleaders are often, well, cheerful; and Denny Hamlin is one of the most negative guys in the garage area. I think calling them "junior high teenage girls" would be a more accurate description. Still, kudos to Kyle Petty for making this "feud" out as being the joke that it is. With Brad and Biffle having to start at the rear of the field due to their engine changes, the top four starters will be the four drivers that have driven for JGR in the past year; three current drivers (Hamlin, Kyle, and Kenseth) and one former driver (Logano). If this was a pro wrestling angle (which it might as well be), Logano would have to fight off any blocks from Kenseth and Kyle in order to get his hands on his "rival" Denny Hamlin. Too bad he isn't going to do anything, otherwise those opening few laps might be pretty interesting. Nice qualifying effort by Casey Mears. That #13 Germain Racing team had only five top 20 qualifying runs last season (one being the "pole" at Bristol after qualifying was rained out), and now they've got three in the first five races this season. That team now has more top 20 qualifying positions as fellow Ford drivers Carl Edwards, Joey Logano, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., Aric Almirola, and Marcos Ambrose. And with two top 15 finishes to go along with the improved qualifying efforts, so far that team looks to be breaking its way into the 2nd tier of NASCAR teams, joining fellow Ford teams RPM and the Wood Brothers. 21. jabber1990 posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I dont get Paul "The Empire" Menard? is it because he's heir to the Menards throne? is it because has has unlimited supply of money behind him? I didnt know he was evil, you dont hear about him much 22. murb posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's some other ones that I like... Carl Edwards - "Mr. Ed" Brian Vickers - "The Sheriff of Stupidity" Chad Knaus - "Plugz" Brian France - "Brainless Brian" Michael McDowell - "Captain Jesus" 23. Kenny posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey dose anyone hear realize that rainbow dash is petty blue? 24. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Plugz! Ha! Other good ones: Cheating Chad, The Hairline, Mr Suspension. Hey cjs, remember on the '87 Daytona 500, the first race where Darrell had the Tide scheme and Buddy Baker had the Criso scheme, the announcers said Earnhardt was calling Darrell "Bubbles" and Buddy "Lard". Hilarious. 25. murb posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I dont get Paul "The Empire" Menard?" His fanbase calls themselves "The Empire" I think. I don't really think that that is necessarily his nickname. 26. Paul posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sam Hornish, Jr. could go the rest of his career without spinning out, and he'll always be known as "Sideways Sam." That nickname was perfect for his first few years in NASCAR when he was VERY green, and plus it rolls off the tongue so well. Same thing with John Wes Townley. He could go the rest of his career without wrecking, yet still be referred to as "John Wrecks Weekly" simply because that nickname is too awesome to retire. Here are some other active NASCAR nicknames (by last name): A.J. Allmendinger: The Dinger (good), Wallmendinger (bad) Greg Biffle: The Biff Dave Blaney: Buckeye Bullet Todd Bodine: The Onion, Cueball (-headed idiot) Jeff Burton: The Mayor Kyle Busch: Rowdy, Shrub Carl Edwards: Cousin Carl Jeff Gordon: Big Daddy Ron Hornaday: Restart Ron Matt Kenseth: The Brat Terry Labonte: The Iceman Joe Nemechek: Front Row Joe Ryan Newman: Rocket Man Kenny Wallace: Herman Former driver nicknames: Dale Earnhardt: The Intimidator (good), Ironhead (bad) Bill Elliott: Awesome Bill From Dawsonville, Million Dollar Bill Charlie Glotzbach: Chargin' Charlie Jimmy Horton: Air Horton Ernie Irvan: Swervin' Irvan Ned Jarrett: Gentleman Ned Alan Kulwicki: Special K David Pearson: The Silver Fox Richard Petty: The King Ricky Rudd: Rooster, Ironman Jimmy Spencer: Mr. Excitement Rusty Wallace: Rubberhead Darrell Waltrip: Jaws 27. cjs3872 posted: 03.22.2013 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, did Dale, Sr. call Buddy "Lard" or "Large", because I don't think anyone ever accused Buddy Baker of being fat. And as it turned out, Buddy almost won tht one, leading with about 30 laps to go when the Fords blew by the pack, first Davey Allison's car which was 14 laps behind, which drew complaints from Richard Childress, and then most importantly, Bill Elliott, though Earnhardt tried to wreck him when he passed Elliott a few laps later, which actually may have been the start of what exploded in the All-Star Race between the two in May. And as for Buddy Baker's size, I think Bill Flemming of ABC Sports may have said it best early in the 1976 Daytona 500 when he described him as someone who looks like he could be a defensive lineman on a football team. 28. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I think auto racing's real "Big Daddy", legendary drag racer Don Garlits, might have a problem with what FOX began to call Jeff Gordon several years ago. But speaking of Gordon, we must be getting real old if Kyle Petty is caling him "old school", true as it might be, because he raced against men like Rusty, Dale, Sr., Bill Elliott, Darrell Waltrip, Geoff Bodine, Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte, and even once with King Richard himself, and MEN like Cale Yarborough, Bobby Allison, Bud Moore, and Junior Johnson were significantly involved in the sport when Gordon's career started. Now he's as esteemed as those men are, and yes, I emphasize the word men when I mentioned them because using the term "guys" just doesn't seem to cut it when describing them, especially compared to the "guys" running today. 29. David posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Final Gear and I will share credit for the "Baroness of the Backmarkers" nickname. Here are some more nicknames: Kasey Kahne: Pretty Boy Kasey Clint Bowyer: Bleached Bowyer (referencing his hair) Kyle Busch: The Emotional Juggernaut Matt Kenseth: Cool Hand Luke (this could be a nickname for Luke Lambert as well) Joey Logano: He doesn't care for nicknames, he just wants to be himself. Jeff Gordon: Wonder Boy, Big Daddy More to come. 30. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, Dale just thought it was funny to call Buddy "Lard" since he was driving the Crisco car. And it is true Jeff can't be "Big Daddy" cause that is the drag racing legend, but also because he is WONDERBOY! We can call Clint Bowyer "The Running Man" in reference to him making a mad dash for the fortressed Gordon at Pnoenix last year, after the famous Ah-nold movie from the 80's. Speaking of Ah-nold, for a while the press tried to tag Earnhardt as "The Terminator" due to his singular focus on one goal regardless of what it left in his wake. But it couldn't hold a candle to The Intimidator. 31. Kenny posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hi billy mays hear XD 32. Paul posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:39 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Joey Logano: Double Douche (instead of Double Deuce) Out of respect to Don Garlits, I will refrain from referring to Jeff Gordon as "Big Daddy" from now on. Besides, "Wonder Boy" is a perfect nickname for him. Although "Wonder Man" might be a more accurate description for him as he is now one of the oldest active drivers, it doesn't quite have the ring to it as "Wonder Boy" has. 33. Jim Davis posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:41 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I take it no one likes to call Harvick the FOX Sports bestowed nicknames "The Closer" or "Mr. Where Did He Come From"? How about the more organic "Happy Harvick" or "Harv"? 34. Paul posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Perhaps Bowyer's nickname should be Clint BOwYer, because while he may have certain manly traits about him, that attitude that he has more resembles that of a boy than of a man. 35. Paul posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since Jeff Gordon is "Wonder Boy" and Joey Logano was known as "Sliced Bread," although now known as "Moldy Bread," it's only a matter of time before some young hotshot driver gets the nickname "Wonder Bread." Kyle Larson, perhaps? 36. murb posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:54 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Joey Logano: Double Douche (instead of Double Deuce)" lol, YES!!! 37. JG24FanForever posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Nicknames. Jimmie Johnson: The King of Kings (My personal nickname for Johnson.) Danica Patrick: Why?(that's the nickname.) Kasey Kahne: Kano Jeff Gordon: 4-Time Dale Jr.: Not Big E Kyle Busch: Wild Thing,Rowdy Kurt Busch: 1-Time too many Curtis Turner: Pops Mark Martin: The Kid Dale Earnhardt: Big E Bill Elliott: Wild Bill Richard Petty: Dick Petty David Pearson: Sly Fox Carl Edwards: Teeth (My personal nickname for Edwards.) 38. Paul posted: 03.23.2013 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Jimmie Johnson: The King of Kings (My personal nickname for Johnson.) Richard Petty: Dick Petty" Please tell me you're joking about these two. 39. JG24FanForever posted: 03.23.2013 - 1:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Please tell me you're joking about these two." Richard used to go by Dick before he was King Richard. The King of Kings is a sarcastic take on Johnson's domination. 40. Paul posted: 03.23.2013 - 1:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright. I just found it a little odd that you were referring to JJ as the "The King of Kings," while referring to The King by a name that is both a short name for Richard, as well as a derogatory word. 41. MarkMartinFan posted: 03.23.2013 - 2:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I honestly don't think Dick Petty is all that bad. If you listen to Richard talk about a lot of other drivers, he talks down about them. And when he talks down about them, its pretty bad. He is quite a dick on that subject. 42. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.23.2013 - 4:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) MarkMartinFan, read King Richard I, Richard's autobiography; he has nothing but praise for just about everybody but Johnny Allen. I will be the sicko to call Danica "The Pole Sitter." I think "Front Row Joe" should be changed to "Back Row Joe." Timmy Hill - "Peasant of the Hill" because he's a perpetual backmarker. 43. 83andJoe posted: 03.23.2013 - 4:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey, who forgot that Marcos Ambrose is the Tasmanian Devil? As for Danica, she was outqualified by Timmy Hill. Let that one sink in for a few minutes. Then consider that /Timmy Hill is considered a better chance to win than she is/. Here's your complimentary barf bucket, do enjoy the race. 44. Anonymous posted: 03.23.2013 - 7:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see Princess Sparkle Pony start about where her talent level is, among the start and park drivers. 45. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.23.2013 - 7:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is a good Nickname for Danica. The Billion Dollar No Talent Princess. 46. Kenny posted: 03.23.2013 - 7:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) LOL @ Jibber1990 hey final gear do you have a FB Page? id like to add you(or any of you really) https://www.facebook.com/home.php also one last thing dose anyone hear see that Rainbows color is petty blue? yes shes petty blue 47. David posted: 03.23.2013 - 10:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #44, we are refraining from calling Danica that. Hence all the discussion about nicknames. Harry Gant: Mr. September, Handsome Harry Austin Dillon: Definitely not Marshal Dillon, Woody (love it!) Joey Logano: Slowgano Kurt Busch: The Radio Sweetheart, R-rated 48. David posted: 03.23.2013 - 10:05 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Regan Smith: Blacksmith (a reference to him driving black cars for most of his career) 49. Daniel posted: 03.23.2013 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hal Martin: The Ragin' Cajun 50. Dave #38Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 03.23.2013 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I LOVE the nickname "Doulbe Douche" for Logano. Fits him perfectly. Also, not sure if "Swervin' Stenhouse" is suppossed to be an insult or a compliment, but I always like Irvan so i'll take it as a compliment. 51. Dave #38Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 03.23.2013 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^^"Double" 52. David posted: 03.23.2013 - 10:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano: The Curious Case from Connecticut. 53. MStall41 posted: 03.23.2013 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (3) The hate for Logano is so utterly overblown on this website. If it weren't for all the ridiculous hype bestowed upon him to start his career I don't think anyone would have anything negative to say about a guy who is only 22 years old and is a consistent Top 15 driver in the highest level of the sport. 54. Paul posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Funny how the consistent top 15 driver has yet to finish top 15 in points after four seasons with the best Toyota team in NASCAR. Love the idea that Nico had for Danica's nickname, although I might change it to "Pole Dancer," rather than "Pole Sitter." 55. murb posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Like I said, one of my nicknames for her is "Tainted Pole", since her 500 pole was clearly won with a superior engine (watch the lap by lap comparison to Jeff Gordon). 56. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) MStall41, there's only one man to blame for that, and that would be Mark Martin. If not for his touting of Logano, Joey might not even be in the Cup Series right now. And being a top 15 driver in the Cup Series is not exactly as big of an accomplishment as it used to be, as there aren't as many competitive cars and teams, and just top 15 won't cut it when you race for guys like Gibbs and Penske, especially now since his teammate is the current champion, Brad Keselowski and the man you essentially replaced in the #22 car is leading the Nationwide Series points by a significant margin, has a dominating win at Vegas earlier this year, and is one of the favorites today at Auto Club Speedway. 57. David posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MStall41, you may have a point, but remember that Logano has never finished in the top fifteen in the Cup standings, and with more starts than Brad Keselowski. He is also a bit of a jerk (to put it nicely). Paul can list the examples for you. This is the same guy who ran ninth in his first Cup practice and thought he was going to "destroy everyone". 58. murb posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not only what CJS and Paul said, but he also deserves to be hated on because his richie-rich/self entitled/wreck underfunded cars in a top flight ride attitude is the shits. 59. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really really really Really dislike Logano's attitude and personality. 60. Kenny posted: 03.23.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) I like logano :) 61. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guys, we are forgetting the greatest nickname ever, Jim Sauter: "The Rabbit". Doesn't he have like 12 kids (including Johnny)? 62. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.23.2013 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are some other Nicknames for The GoDaddy Girl. Bella Swan, The New Boz. 63. Paul posted: 03.23.2013 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes he does have 12 kids. Two of his other kids, Jay and Tim, were also NASCAR drivers in the late '90s and '00s. I always thought Tim Sauter was the most talented of the Sauter brothers, but never got the breaks that his brothers did. Just compare his '02 Busch Series stats to those of Johnny. Both of them ran the full schedule, but Tim had 7 top tens and finished 13th in the points in a car that was unsponsored most of the season, while Johnny drove an RCR car that won the championship the year before with Kevin Harvick, yet finished 101 points behind Tim with fewer top ten finishes. Very talented driver, but never got the necessary breaks and has been out of the sport for five years. 64. murb posted: 03.23.2013 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jay Sauter was pretty good too. He replaced Skinner in the RCR 3 truck back in 1997, and he won some races in it. 65. 83andJoe posted: 03.23.2013 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >MStall41, there's only one man to blame for that, and that would be Mark Martin. If not for his touting of Logano, Joey might not even be in the Cup Series right now. Was it Mark Martin or Randy LaJoie who gave him the "sliced bread" nickname? 'Cause I've seen both names quoted as doing so. 66. Paul posted: 03.23.2013 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They were all talented. I think Jay got the raw end of the deal at RCR in the Busch Series, having to share that ride with Jeff Green, rather than get to run the full schedule. Plus, he managed to get 3 top ten finishes in '06 driving for the #01 team that would merge with JD Motorsports after that season and is now being driven by Mike Wallace (who only has 3 total top ten finishes in that car). Heck, he led a season-high 12 laps and finished 4th at Memphis while driving for Mike Curb in '01, and was released after the race. Hopefully we see more Sauters enter the NASCAR ranks, as both Tim's son Travis and Jay's son Michael are racing late models in the Midwest. 67. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2013 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol, The New Boz. 68. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.23.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS Nickname is the Baltimore Back-flipper 69. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 83andJoe, it was Randy LaJoie that gave Joey Logano the nickname "Sliced Bread", but it was Mark Martin who actually discovered him a little bit prior to that. I think Mark discovered Logano when he was about 13 or 14 and predicted big things for him, and who knows, he may eventually end up to be correct. Some drivers take longer to bloom than others. A classic case here would be Rodger Ward, who didn't really become a top-tier driver until about his 10th year, and the same is true regarding Johnny Rutherford. Rutherford's career in the top rungs in racing started in 1963 and it wasn't until 1973 that he really began to show what he could do, so it sometimes takes drivers a long time to show his talents. And Harry Gant's only really big season came when he was 51 years old in 1991, which was his 13th season in the Cup Series (he didn't start racing fuly in the Cup Series until he was 39). Not everyone can be like Dale Earnhardt, Sr., Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, and Tony Stewart and win and contend for championships right away. It takes some drivers longer than others. 70. Eric posted: 03.23.2013 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, Harry Gant did have a big season before 1991 and that was in 1984. 1991 was the only Season Harry have over 3 wins in a season, and 4 races in a ro. The thing is Harry Gant almost won a cup championship in 1984 with him being 65 points behind Terry Labonte. If Harry didn't have an engine problem at Atlanta in 1984, it is possible that we might be talking about Harry Gant as a cup champion. Harry Gant had 3 wins, 15 top 5's, 23 top and 1,186 laps lad in 1984. Harry had a better overall in 1984 than 1991 despite having more laps led and wins in 1991. Harry had one of the best months ever for a NASCAR driver for What he did in 1991, but he wasn't in championship contention unlike 1984. It was caused by the fact Harry had a slow start in 1991. He only had 2 top 10's in the first 7 races. He also only had 1 top 10 from race 15 at Daytona to Race 20 at Bristol. That meant Harry was streaky that year. Harry in 1984 was more consistent than he was in 1991. He had two long dry spells in 1991, but Harry's dry spells in not getting a top 10 were shorter than 1991 was. 71. cjs3872 posted: 03.23.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Eric, I wouldn't call Harry Gant's season in 1984 a big one. Obviously it was a very good one. That much is indisputeable, but I don't think was a dominant force in 1984 like was in 1991, which was why I said 1991 was his biggest year. And let's not forget that he had an outside chance at the championship in 1992 in the final race, though it was remote and relied on all the Fords having trouble early in that race. 72. MStall41 posted: 03.23.2013 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Arrogance doesn't bother me very much honestly. Full disclosure, if I was a big time Cup driver, I'd probably be an arrogant prick like many of the Cup drivers are too. Its what happens to most people when they quickly gain fame/success. I kind of like when the drivers have attitudes, it gives the sport some flair IMO. If it were just a bunch of good ol' boys who just rolled over for one another like it was back in the old days it would be less interesting to me. And as far as Logano, he has done a solid enough job and showed enough flashes of brilliance to deserve a Cup ride IMO. The kid was battling hard for the lead last week when he got wrecked. He clearly has the talent to be in Cup, he just needs to keep improving. 73. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.23.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) The Baltimore Backflipper, hey wait a minute, Jeff (my 2012 Cup champ prediction) did finish higher than Carl in points, you owe me 24 backflips! Hey, I just thought of a hilarious nickname for me. Since God loves irony, I often work on County ambulance #24. I could be WonderMedic. It could be nice get back for all the "Rainbow Nation" digs I take. 74. Eric posted: 03.23.2013 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I got the perfect nickname for Danica Patrick. The Anna Kournikova of NASCAR. I am calling Danica Patrick that because Anna was an over hyped tennis player that but she didn't win a singles tennis title. Anna was known for her looks, but she couldn't win single titles. Anna Kournikova had ever been called the most overhyped athlete ever by ESPN in the past. Yes, I know Danica won an IRL race, but in NASCAR she's not that good outside of plate races. My other reason for calling Danica Patrick the Anna Kournikova of NASCAR is because Anna was known for pictures taken of her like Dannica doing modeling in the past.Anna posed during her tennis days in bikinis and swimsuits. Danica has posed in swimsuits. 75. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.23.2013 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey I think Anna and Danica faced each other on an episode of Celebrity Deathmatch. 76. JG24FanForever posted: 03.23.2013 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "If it were just a bunch of good ol' boys who just rolled over for one another like it was back in the old days it would be less interesting to me." Ha! Since when did the good ol' boys roll over for each other back in the old days? 77. murb posted: 03.23.2013 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's a good comparison Eric. I don't really follow tennis, but from what you're saying it sounds exactly like Kournakova is the Danica of that sport. "Hey I think Anna and Danica faced each other on an episode of Celebrity Deathmatch." lol, I don't remember that one, but I do remember when they had Gordon vs Earnhardt on there in a demolition derby match. If you guys haven't seen it, it's on YouTube if you search for it. It's pretty entertaining, to say the least. 78. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.23.2013 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember the Dale Sr vs Gordon Celebrity Deathmatch Battle as their version of Dale Sr sounded like Cletus from the Simpsons. Earnhardt won the fight by Crushing Gordon under his tire and grounding him into a pulp. 79. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is a Earnhardt vs Gordon celebrity death match on YouTube that ends with Dale crushing Jeff with a tire? Why am I just now hearing about this? What the hell? You all must pay! WARRIOR!!! 80. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! That was funny. I used to watch Celebrity Deathmatch but I don't remember that one. Wwhen was it made? I guess what I'm asking is how long before Dale went to the Big Jiffy Lube in the sky (somebody needed to tell them Jeff has anything but a Southern accent, that is what made him and natural foils)? I remember that one match they had between Tommy Lee and a hero of mine, Ron Jeremy. It was hilarious, although I was horribly disappointed when Ron lost. 81. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The show came out in the late 90s, so I'm guessing that episode was somewhere around 1998 or 1999... 82. 18fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be at the race tomorrow, which means listening to the MRN broadcast, which is always a good thing, as opposed to the Danica Apologist Team also known as the FOX broadcast team. 83. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I figured out the most appropriate way for this race to go. In honor of the LA Rams of the 80's there is a lot of expectations that with the worn out surface and new car that looked good on the other big track in Vegas. So this may be "California's year" to do good. But Biffle is fast and has to start in the back. And he is driving #16 (Montana's number). So the race will be excellent, gaining traction as a race that can be great until Biff makes it to the front, stinks the show up, and makes the race look bad. Then it will be retroactively named the LA Rams 400. Looking good until #16 smokes 'em. This is a spinoff of a Facebook convo me and Ben Lowe had saying the Loudon race should be remanamed the New England Patriots 300 where somebody leads the first 299 laps then loses it on the last one (I think we joked about that here once). Some other good race titles: Texas: the Dallas Cowboys 500. Somebody is looking unbeatable until an unforced error ruins their chances in honor of Romo. Actually this already happened in the Spring of '07. Charlotte: the Carolina Panthers 500. Somebody gets the lead, then runs extremely conservatively from that point forward to avoid crashing in honor of John Fox and his prevent defense. Kansas: the Kansas City Chiefs 400. Somebody starts in the back and slowly matriculates their way to the front to win in honor of Hank Stram. Chicago: the Chicago Bears 400. Wisconsin native Matt Kenseth comes to town (with special guest former crew chief, Wisconsin native Robbie Reiser) and wins. Milwuakee Mile: the Green Bay Packers 300. The race is run in -15 degree weather. Dover: the Philadelphia Eagles 400. A likeable popular sentimental favorite wins and gets the shit booed out of them. Richmond: the Washington Redskins 400. A new billionaire buys the popular track and runs it into the ground. Homestead: the Miami Dolphins 400. Somebody leads every lap to win, then has champagne after every race afterwards where nobody has a perfect race like they had. Daytona: the Tampa Bay Yucks 400. Every car must run an ugly paint scheme. 84. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Daytona: the Tampa Bay Yucks 400. Every car must run an ugly paint scheme." I immediately thought of Dale's Peter Max car that he ran in the 2000 Daytona 500 when I read this. It was only fitting that he drove that car in that bad race. 85. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In Honor of The New England Patriots 300 Bill Belichick & Tom Brady will both be participants in the race. Brady will be driving the 12 sponsored New England Patriots Car Belichick driving the 666 sponsored New England Patriots Car. 86. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF instead of the Dallas Cowboys 500 the Texas Race Should be Called The Tony Romo 500. BTW here is one good race name that you missed DSFF. Indianapolis: Payton Manning 400. Someone wins the pole by a whole bunch dominates all the practice sessions then crashes on the first turn of the first lap. 87. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Dale ran the Taz car in the Daytona 500 that year. I think the Peter Max car was for The Winston. But you're absolutely right. What an ugly piece, lol 88. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well the 2000 Daytona 500 was very reminiscent of your typical Charlotte race, including the lack of passing and lead changes. I must have convinced myself that that was the race he ran that Peter Max car. But perhaps it's more fitting that he ran that car at Charlotte, as that paint scheme is a lot like Cam Newton. It was cool and unique for about five minutes, but then got really annoying and obnoxious to the point where you were hoping it would just leave and never come back. 89. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The '07 spring Texas race should be called the Randy Moss 500, because Kyle Busch walked off from the race track before his team had withdrawn, much like how Randy Moss walked off the field with two seconds to play in a 2003 game against the Washington Redskins. Oddly enough, Kyle was replaced in the #5 car by Dale Earnhardt, Jr., a noted Redskins fan. 90. Mr X posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even more oddly enough Kyle Busch was replaced by dale jr the very drive who he crashed into. 91. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) F*** Ross Brawn! Favoritist scumbag! 92. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Red Bull and Mercedes/Ross Brown: Classless and disgusting. 93. Talon64 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was an awkward, tense and unhappy podium celebration for the ages. Webber not happy that the team told him to hold steady and cut his engine down, then Vettel disobeyed team orders and passed him for the lead and went on to win, while Mercedes handed down team orders to Hamilton and Rosberg to hold station which pissed Rosberg off and made Hamilton not feel too good about his 3rd place finish. This was worth staying up until 3 AM and then some! 94. JG24FanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not my favorite Grand Prix. Webber should've won with Rosberg finishing third. Very shambolic Podium. 95. JG24FanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Malaysian Grand Prix is wet! Go Alonso! 96. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pure BS... not only did Vettel disobey team orders and in so doing nearly wreck Webber... Multi 21... but he could have blown the engine! 97. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another thought: Rosberg was actually the fastest car in the race... even the announcers said so, but Brawn deliberately set up each pit sequence so that Hamilton would come out ahead of Rosberg... my poor boy could have gotten #2 today. Hopefully, Brawn doesn't pull another stunt in China; that track still owes Rosberg another win... He made up for losing because of the rain in 2010, but he also has to get one for the loss caused by Brawn's inferior tire-devouring chassis in 2011. 98. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rosberg has looked faster than hamilton in the dry in both aus and malaysia (practice) just of note why is rosberg your favorite driver 99. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If quali had been dry rosberg would have been on pole and won the grand prix. With mclaren making major progress and 3 weeks until next gp the top 5 teams lotus red bull ferrari mercedes and mclaren could have any of those 10 drivers on the podium and any 8 could win in China. Personally think a merc will win if it is dry I reckon Rosberg also notice from l;aST YEAR how Big as in well attended last years race was. 100. Peter posted: 03.24.2013 - 11:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...and another sterling effort by the princess 101. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF Just give her Terrell Owens nickname: Team Obliterator 102. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 12:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been watching Rosberg since he was a GP2 driver. One of the most underrated talents on the grid, and definitely championship material. I really started pulling for him after the 2008 Singapore grand prix because he should have won that race by at least 30 seconds, but got screwed by Renault's cheating. 103. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, that Peter Max car was tough on the eyes. The Cam Newton comparison is funny. I was very excited about Cam for about 5 minutes. I had two thoughts when I first saw it. First off, "What the hell is that?". Secondly, is Dale gonna have to wear a tye dye firesuit? Y'all take a moment to picture Big E in a suit like that. Part funny, part mortifying. But he did have two really good runs in that car. I remember him battling for the lead in the 600 just thrilled because that was the first time he was a contender at Charlotte since his Lumina days. He finished 3rd including passing the race's dominant driver late, Dale Jr. I think we need to have "The Day: Texas Spring 2007". So many storylines. The battle in the end between Kenseth and Burton, the Kyle/June incident which had lasting long term effects on their careers, JGR, DEI, and HMS. And Jeff had only the 2nd unforced error to cost him a race he dominated in his 20 years (Pocono '95). An odd day. 104. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Oh God. Oh no. I am watching RaceDay and they are gonna do a segment where they ask Dale Jr fans why they like him. They showed a preview and about 5 people said "he drives like his Daddy" and a few said "he's the best driver out there". ARE YOU SHITTING ME?!?!?!?!?!?!? I probably need to avoid that. I may lose faith in all humanity. 105. We need more Onion posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Funny to see those two pussies fighting on twitter. 106. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) DaleSrFan, you gotta remember that the average casual NASCAR fan doesn't have a mind of their own and can't really think for themselves...They just automatically become Dale Jr. or Danica fans because of all the hype around them. I bet most of those fans they talked to (I'm not watching RaceDay, but I'm assuming) probably don't know anything about the history of NASCAR. 107. The Final Gear posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anybody else watching the Indycar race? 108. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. That Junkyard Dogs deal looks powerful and emotional. That is something I want to watch. Obviously pulling for Dale all those years was beyond fun. He was The Man. But it was also fun cause his pit crew, The Junkyard Dogs, The Flying Aces, the only group to win FOUR consecutive pit crew championships, were the best AND most unique pit crew. They were fun to pull for too. I remember when Dale was inducted into the International HOF at Talladega, they gave one of his cars to the museum, and it was pushed into place by The Junkyard Dogs, including Kirk Shelmerdine who changed the front tires until he resigned after '92. That was emotional for me. 109. We need more Onion posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Yep, the StPete race is good so far, I love that the only guy I can root against had crashed already. 110. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm so glad that IndyCar is back. As bad as Nascar is now, IndyCar is just fantastic. I personally feel like with the new car, it is back to how it was in the old CART days. Plus, you can actually use two hands to count the number of respectable personalities that are in IndyCar, unlike Nascar. There's the champion Ryan Hunter Reay, Tony Kanaan, Ed Carpenter, Simona De Silvestro (who is the Johanna Long of IndyCar - she's a great racer and not a half naked model, unlike BoB), Helio Castroneves, James Hinchcliffe, and Justin Wilson. All of these drivers (for the most part) are classy individuals. There's still plenty of primadonnas (like Marco Andretti, Graham Rahal, and Sebastien Bourdais), but it seems to me that most of the drivers of IndyCar have respect for the sport. Too bad I cant say that about the Nascar guys. I'd like to see Hinchcliffe pull off his first win in this race. He looks fast along with Helio!!! 111. Pete posted: 03.24.2013 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like how Indy Car opens the pits right away when the yellow flag comes out. But I don't understand one thing abut the coverage: there's a female driver in the field and she isn't being hyped 100% of the time. :-) Maybe it's because she can actually drive so she'll get noticed for her accomplishments (esp. now that she's finally in decent equipment), as opposed to having the media shove her down our throats. 112. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) everyone seems to be hatin' on NASCAR and people are actually listening to me, is now a bad time to mention that i've been working on a story since about 2002, its similar to NASCAR but it has a floating timeline, it uses simlar cars (but instead of Trucks they use Vans, or SUV's) but they dont use Toyotas because they dont have a body style that matches all the series. ill be happy to share it with y'all if you want to know, it has 5 series (the equivlant in perenthesis) Top Division (Sprint Cup) SportsCar Series (Nationwide) SuperVan Series [or Sport Utility Series, depending of if I decide on the body change] (Trucks) Wrangler Teen Series (K&N I guess) and the Dirt Division if people want to hear ill be happy to share with people, and also i'll change some facts if I like them! The Top Division, SportsCar Series and Supervan Series just finished their longest events of the year, and on Easter Sunday the Teen Series has their season opener which is also the longest race of the year 113. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good grief, did you guys see J.R. Hildebrand run over Will Power under caution? Distracted driving at its finest. 114. The Final Gear posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol that's what I feel like when I watch Indycar sometimes. I feel like it's such a minor league these days. Racing is great but the drivers make too many stupid mistakes. 115. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Indycar series auto racing's version of WCW or TNA. 116. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go Hinch! 117. kup posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Drivers for my team @ Fantasy Live @ Nascar.Com #48 Johnson #18 Kyle Busch #5 Kahne #88 Junior #99 Edwards #55 Martin #22 Logano #78 Kurt Busch #17 Stenhouse #51 Allmendinger Theese 10 drivers are well mixed inside my 5 teams with 5 drivers each. My prediction for Streak to the Finish game - best Top 15 chance drivers: #48, #15, #29, #99, #18, #78, #55. 118. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) James Hinchcliffe: By far the best driver to have ever driven a Go Daddy race car. 119. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know this has nothing to do with Fontana, but can anyone tell me if Dale Jr shifts to 4th gear on the front straight at Sonoma or does he do like some other drivers and over rev the engine in 3rd. If I offend anyone I apologize but the cars have 4 gears for a reason. 120. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "James Hinchcliffe: By far the best driver to have ever driven a Go Daddy race car." Along with Mark Martin and Brad Keselowski. 121. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah damn, how the hell did I forget them?! Maybe I should rephrase that. Best driver to have driven a Go Daddy car in the Indy Car series. 122. We need more Onion posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sato is coming back up, while there is a great fight for 1st. Awsome racing so far. Simona is pretty much showing that she can take care of the car while running fast enough. Gotta feel bad for some guys, especially for Vautier who really impressed me today. 123. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Have heard Regan Smith be known as "Sleek and Swift, Regan Smith" many times. It fit him yesterday haha. 124. AveryNH posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Must say I'm quite proud of De Silvestro this weekend. I've had faith in her ability for a long while, even after the lotus disaster and I hope she hangs on. If Marco turns her I'm gonna lose it! 125. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HINCHCLIFFE!!!! 126. The Final Gear posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) The only time a GoDaddy car wins today... 127. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Got the feeling this is the first win of many for Hinch. 128. We need more Onion posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fact that Viso pulled out to make it 3-wide made that finish look awsome. Easily the best race of the weekend, saying that after watching F1, WTCC, GP2, F3, AutoGp and NNS. 129. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now let's watch the GoDaddy Cup car finish three laps down in 35th. 130. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad would have won the '09 Nationwide title under the current eligiblity rules, but it wouldn't surprise me if NASCAR and the media ignore that fact just to make the princess seem like the best GoDaddy driver. She's already "the best female NASCAR driver," so what's another lie going to hurt. The untalented drivers always seem to have the money for great rides, and the talented drivers don't and are often in field-filler cars. The Nationwide Series is filled with these examples. 131. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I've said before, I wouldn't be surprised if NASCAR and the media try to rewrite history in the future by advertising Danica as the first woman to EVER race in NASCAR's Cup Series...None of the "peanut gallery" fans would dare to question that, I'm certain! 132. We need more Onion posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sad truth is that most 'fans' have never heard of Janet Guthrie, not to mention Lella Lombardi or Sara Christian. 133. Alex posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Hinchcliffe! Representing Canada very well! And apparently Greg Biffle is Darrell Waltrip's hero!?... 134. AveryNH posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) What about the leaders of the new school? Tammy Jo Kirk, Patty Moise and Sarah Fisher. All three were great racers in their own right. And besides for Sarah not too much hype ever surrounded them. Last female to gain that was Mrs. Robinson and her orangemobile in 2002 135. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've got a good name we can call this race. The Hollywood Hulk Hogan 400. 136. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hinchtown! Time to celebrate! This one's for Danny Boy! 137. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hinchcliffe is a class act in and out of the car do any of you guys watch the aus v8 cars which will be racing at austin soon, a brillaint series with great racing. I know it probably won't get added to the website could I ask the moderators to include WRC and moto gp to the website please thanks 138. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here comes the inevitable "Hamlin and Logano are nose to tail - will there be retaliation?" bullshit. 139. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOX would just be SO damned happy if Hamlin and Logano actually did wreck each other today. They'd probably never shut up about it. 140. We need more Onion posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) From what I've seen from mid-90's Busch races Moise wasn't really talented. Sarah was around when the IRL was a bit easier, but still she was a good driver and I love how she has faith in Newgarden. BTW Duchess of DNFs is already overtaking top class teams like FAS Lane. 141. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did you see Ambrose just now?? He was flying! 142. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just for fun...I think I'm going to predict how many cautions each race this year will have. For this race, I am predicting...three cautions. Two for BS debris to tighten the cars back up and one for someone spinning out. 143. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Waltrip, you're outta here. 144. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If nothing happens to any of them, the Joe Gibbs cars are almost certainly going to finish 1-2-3. 145. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad's already in the top 20. Holy hell. 146. AveryNH posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I say five yellows today. I'll take a nap and miss the first two b.s. cautions. Hopefully I'll be up by halfway. Hahah 147. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't get to see it, but congrats to Hinch! Pretty good race so far. WonderMedic's favorite driver is racing Wonderboy for position after starting in the back. Kyle dominating early, always a bad sign for him. 148. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now for an update on the 34th place car... 149. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Time for the weekly Danica update! 150. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now for our quarterly hour update on the 34th place driver. But she just needs time. 151. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now for the weekly update on the Baroness of the Backmarkers. 152. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jinx! Murb and Schroeder51 owe me a Coke. 153. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just you wait until she's gotten half a season under her belt. She'll be TOTALLY tearing up the track and winning races left and right! 154. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason I said that guys like Brad Keselowski and Greg Biffle need early cautions is that, even though Keselowski has moved up to the top 15, he's fallen 18 seconds behind, and Greg Biffle is more than half a lap behind. And if the first 100 laps go green, one or both of them might get lapped, even if they're running well, simply because of how far back they started. 155. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As does David 156. The Final Gear posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Baroness of Backmarkers has already raced at Fontana 3 times before. They were in Nationwide but she should know how the grooves work. 1 top 30 in those 3 appearances. 157. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jinx! Murb and Schroeder51 owe me a Coke." I'll ask Danica for one since her specialty is selling her sponsor's products, and not race driving. Caution for Stremme. 158. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Schroeder, you've got your spinning caution. 159. We need more Onion posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What if she really only needs time? We'd look like complete asses, like those who bashed Paul Menard when he was bad. I seriously tought about this now... BTW, Stremme saved us from BS debris. 160. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow...the first caution was actually legit? That's quite rare at Fontana. 161. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fortunately for Brad and Greg, the caution is out for David Stremme's spin, so they now get to catch up to the field. And Schroeder51, I predicted this would be a Toyota runaway last night, if they didn't suffer a rash of blown engines or other mechanical problems. And certainly while the Gibbs cars are dominating, I think at least one of the MWR cars will get up there, as well. They just seem to have a big horsepower advantage over the Fords and Chevrolets. 162. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "What if she really only needs time? We'd look like complete asses, like those who bashed Paul Menard when he was bad." I promise, I'll be the first one to the crow if she does turn out to be a decent driver. But until then, I'm gonna continue to bash her and the coverage of her running back in 34th. One thing too that you have to remember is that Paul Menard drove for some pretty shitty teams. He drove for DEI in the middle of their grossest years, and he drove for Yates/RPM/Evernham/whoever the hell the owners were team (and he actually did pretty decent for them). Meanwhile, Danica has been in Hendrick equipment for her entire stock car career thus far. 163. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) instead of calling him 'Jaques Debris' why not call him 'Faux Debris' I am listening to the race on the radio, I am not trying to sound racist, but I cant tell the diffrence between Bobby Allison and Buddy Baker, exept Buddy Baker takes a breath every other word 164. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, Kurt banzai'd that restart. That was pretty cool. 165. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Timmy Hill just blew up. 166. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tough break for Timmy Hill. 167. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah...too bad for Timmy Hill. Looks like my prediction of 3 cautions might end up being off... 168. MarkMartinFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least 4 cars slapped the wall when they ran through the oil the 32 car laid down. 169. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I didn't know southerners were their own race. 170. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man why are these races here so bad. Is it the driver's the cars or a combination of both. 171. Alex posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This track would be tolerable if there was a mandatory restart every 5-10 laps. 172. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You guys do know I was being sarcastic when I said she needs time. But that is the excuse the media is giving. 173. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jabber, that's not racism. 174. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) #171 Bruton Smith...? What on earth are you doing posting here...? 175. We need more Onion posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @162 Well, good points but Paul was horrible at DEI, at Yates (or whatever) he started to drive well actually, that year was the one when I started rooting for him. Also, he was just an example of a career turnaround; the Duchess/Baroness has a horrible personality, she is full of her ego thinking she is "one of a kind" and can go around wrecking people w/o any real consequences, while Paul was always a quiet guy and has respect towards other racers, willing to listen to older drivers. 176. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If this were a different decade like the 80's or 90's everyone would have seen through Danica and she would have had a very short career and faded into irrelevancy like Brian Bosworth. 177. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You guys do know I was being sarcastic when I said she needs time. But that is the excuse the media is giving." lol, Yeah, I know. I'm just saying that if the off chance does happen and she becomes decent, I'll have to eat some crow since I've bashed her so much. Don't worry though, until she improves, I'm all aboard the BoB (Baroness of Backmarkers) bash wagon. 178. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just realized that nobody's start and parked in this race. Wow, that's...really rare these days! 179. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #171, is that you, Bruton? 180. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why do I have this feeling that Joey Logano is going to have a really big year this season and make all of us look bad for calling him "Moldy Bread"? 181. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why do I have this feeling that Joey Logano is going to have a really big year this season and make all of us look bad for calling him "Moldy Bread"?" I said it last week, but he's looked pretty good in his races this year so far. He had top tens going at both Phoenix and Bristol, but had problems. He is improving as a driver, but his Double Douche (great nickname Paul) attitude is progressively getting worse, so I still don't like him at all. This race is actually pretty good so far. 182. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, stick a fork in Jeff. Unless he goes into "Refuse to Lose" mode, he probably won't win this race. 183. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why didn't they have Gordon pit? If he is Wonderboy then Alan is Wondercrechief. As in I wonder what he was thinking. Damn you Denny, I am happy Logano is leading. You have done this to me Denny, and I'll never forgive you. 184. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At the rate Gordon's dropping back...he'll be racing with Danica pretty soon... 185. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I do honestly think Gordon is going to have the worst season of his career this year. I'm actually envisioning him just BARELY making the top 20 in points. 186. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...Did FOX seriously just say Dale Jr. won a championship?! 187. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) McMurray looks really solid this year. If he keeps this up, he'll contend for a Chase spot. 188. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yikes, first Alan loses his damn head and leaves Gordon's wounded car out under caution instead of pitting, and they are proclaiming Jeff's 1995 Winston Cup championship was won by Dale Earnhardt JUNIOR! A rough few laps for his fans. 189. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yikes, first Alan loses his damn head and leaves Gordon's wounded car out under caution instead of pitting, and they are proclaiming Jeff's 1995 Winston Cup championship was won by Dale Earnhardt JUNIOR! A rough few laps for his fans. 190. 12345Dude posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I said this on multiple forums after the Hamlin-Logano incident. What Hamlin did to Logano was the stupidest thing you could possibly do. Logano has talent. But he has no motivation. He's shown tons of motivation in nationwide but not in cup. Hamlin just gave Logano as much motivation as he could possibly need. In my opinion in order to succeed in this life you need to work,work,work, & work at something. The more effort you put into something the better you will be at it. Obviously the more motivation you have the harder you will work at something. I learned this when watching my cousins and their journey into the NFL. Brad wanted Joey to join Penske because he knew Joey has the talent. He just needed to be motivated. Brad thought he would bring that motivation to Joey ten-fold. Because (in my opinion) Brad is one of the most motivated guys in the history of sports (not just NASCAR). I believe he has more motivation and puts more effort into his product that Jimmie. And that's why Brad will win at least 4 championships. That's why Brad wanted Joey on his team so bad. 191. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Dale Jr is the only driver to win a Cup championship before a Busch championship, lol 192. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon does need to step up and command more respect from his organization. His unwillingness to do so has hurt his career. Tell them to either treat him better or he is leaving. At this point, the ball is in his court. 193. Mr X posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I expect Jeff Gordon to be the next caution annoyingly, however I don't understand any of the hate for this race. For the first time since this race was moved to march it's being run under sunny conditions. It's hot and slick and the track is difficult when it isn't those things. Handling is important, tires are important, and drivers are coming and going accordingly. This is at least what I want from a race. Its pretty spread out but this is a big track and there's been plenty of passing. If NASCAR had more small tracks like this they wouldn't have any trouble putting butts in the seats. 194. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 12345Dude, Denny has a history of running his mouth and helping other drivers. Brad in '09 (everyone will realize Brad isn't a very good driver), JJ the next year leading to the most epic championship collapse ever, and now Joey. He is a dumbass. If he would just focus on his car and his team and his career he would be a champion and have more wins. 195. Jim Davis posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) " If he would just focus on his car and his team and his career he would be a champion and have more wins." And then you could complain how "emotionless" he is. 196. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tires that wear! WOW :) 197. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm surprised FOX isn't mentioning to us that Danica is running in 7th (but only because she hasn't pitted yet). 198. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) *gasp* The Baroness of Backmarkers is running sixth!! 199. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If he would just focus on his car and his team and his career he would be a champion and have more wins." You're absolutely right. I hate their personalities, but I root for guys like Denny and Kyle because they undoubtedly have championship talent. I want them to succeed. But their personalities and distractions (like Denny with his mouth and Kyle with his mouth AND him running a ridiculous amount of minor league races) have held them back. It's so frustrating and disappointing to watch. 200. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Denny Hamlin is who we thought he is a person who can't get out of his own way and allows championships to slip through his fingers. 201. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This season might be the start of the downward spiral of Jeff Gordon's Career 202. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF I hear you Gordon needs to grow a spine and start pushing people from his organization around and tell them he is tired of being screwed with tell them he is mad as hell and he is not going to take it anymore. 203. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All of a sudden, Fox is now making excuses for Joey Logano's four years of mediocrity. 204. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Our first BS caution! Hooray! 205. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) deBriS 206. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Yet another race where Larry Hac is talking down a team's strategy (The #14). 207. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Debris, we've missed you. 2 full weeks. 208. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Larry Mac acts like he was a perfect crew chief. 209. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Faux debris. 210. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I wish they would let Jeff Hammond talk more about crew chief stuff like he used to. He did a great job of it, and he also has more room to talk since he accomplished a hell of a lot more than Larry did as a crew chief. But they have to have Hammond out roaming around wasting his time because it is vital that we have Michael Walltrip (not a typo) in the Hollywood Hotel. 211. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Shout out to the fans at Auto Club Speedway today, fantastic crowd. 212. joey2448 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok #119, that was the most random and confusing comment I've ever read on here! What does that have to do with anything at all, let alone todays race? I wish I could've watched F1 and IndyCar today. Sounds like two good races! And congrats to Hinch!!! 213. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Godaddy would be better off putting James in the SHR Cup car than running around with Danican't... 214. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Emotion needs to be directed in the right avenues. Against the best, Hamlin is spineless. At Martinsville '09, Jimmie just knocked the shit out of him late to win in a move that would have made Earnhardt proud. Denny just hung his head and did nothing. But he stands up when it is nobodys (or preceived nobodys like Brad in '09 or Joey) and not only sidetracks himself but motivates others. He will get wins, but lag well behind his potential. Gustafson, you're an idiot and Gordon fans are gonna kill you. Yes Ben, it is long past time for Jeff to stand up to HMS. He has nobody to blame but himself for the lack of information thrown his way. He is Jeff Freaking Gordon. He could easily get that info if he truly wanted it. 215. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And yes, a shout out to the SoCal fans and this has been a descent race. Worn out pavement is the answer to all of racing's problems. 216. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Woah, I must of been sleeping, how did Earnhardt get to 4th? 217. Jim Davis posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Emotion needs to be directed in the right avenues." The way Johnson directs it? It's really strange to hear people complain about Johnson and then complain why other drivers can't be more like him. 218. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with DSFF. Worn out pavement is the answer to all of racing's problems. ISC, let California stay this way until huge car destroying potholes start developing. 219. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Even though Biffle has Joe Montana's number on his car he has none of Joe Cool's Desire, Determination & Courage. 220. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joe Nemechek hits the wall. 221. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn it, Nemechek in the wall. 222. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really bad break for Front Row Joe. 223. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Poor Joe. 224. Bronco posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Surprisingly bad day for JJ so far, at one of his best tracks. 225. Bronco posted: 03.24.2013 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awful pit stop by the #88 crew, at a time when their car was running 3rd. 226. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bad stop for Junior. I guess we can't have him upstaging the Golden Boy from the 48/88 shop. 227. joey2448 posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Dennys comment last week - "It's usually not a problem because I don't see him." Hahaha he's seeing him alot this week! I am just so disappointed in Jeff Gordons run today... 228. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I said it earlier, but this is a really fun race. 229. MarkMartinFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Does that stupid crank it up get on anyone else's nerves? 230. Mr X posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon is slowly coming forwards, and Jimmie is going backwards. 231. The Final Gear posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somebody needs to tell the Baroness that the lead lap cars get to start in front of you if they didn't take a waive around or have a violation. Second time this year this has happened. Once a Bristol and now at Auto Club. 232. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose with a flat tire. Caution. This should get good. 233. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose blows a tire... I'm surprised, only one of the five cautions today has been a BS one. This is QUITE rare at the bigger tracks like Fontana... I must say, this race is better than MOST races I've seen at this track... 234. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff Gordon's running ahead of Jimmie Johnson in green-flag conditions?! What alternate universe are we living in? 235. The Sound posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When was the last time Jimmie Johnson has run this poorly, with the exception of wrecks or mechanical failures? Never? 236. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #235, Las Vegas in 2008. 237. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Of course we miss a crazy lead change because Fox only uses their side by side thing in the first ten laps of the race... 238. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Surprising FOX doesn't use that rarely used side-by-side to show another commercial. 239. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose again. 240. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose blows another tire and destroys his race car. 241. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This track hates poor Marcos. 242. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh-oh, the #24 team took two tires. We all remember how that worked out last time. 243. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) The hilarious thing about the Coca-Cola Racing Family Road Trip is that Denny Hamlin sits directly behind Joey Logano in the van. 244. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I thought the hilarious thing was Tony saying he taught Danica everything he knows... He didn't do a very good job. 245. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a pretty wild restart. 246. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn it!!!! Mark spins!!! 247. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin spins. WOW, I was WAAAY off when I predicted only three cautions. There's an outside shot we might get to ten! 248. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 7 cautions at Fontana? Wow. 249. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is true, but I thought the fact that Logano and Hamlin are in the same van was funny in light of their recent skirmishes. 250. The Final Gear posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Baroness was 3-wide coming to the restart again. Does she not know how to take a restart? Somebody with NASCAR needs to get on her about that, if not then penalize her. There are enough restart skirmishes with it being 2 wide. 251. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Penalize Danica...? NASCAR would NEVER do that! 252. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "That is true, but I thought the fact that Logano and Hamlin are in the same van was funny in light of their recent skirmishes." Notice how Biffle and Newman (both guys who have had issues with Logano before) were also in the van, lol 253. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Clint Bowyer blows up! 254. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) They go side by side, and then the caution comes out for Bowyer. Go figure. 255. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just as they go side-by-side, Bowyer spins. 256. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bowyer's engine goes kaboom. 257. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think The Crazy Brothers & Smoke are gonna make this next restart very interesting. 258. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ...They only go side by side for the first and last commercial breaks of the day...and under certain cautions... Why even bother? 259. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I love how FOX can go side-by-side under caution but have a hard time doing it for green flag runs. 260. Mr X posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That onboard shot from Bowyer's car was actually quite frightening. 261. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I have a feeling we are going to see one hell of an insane finish... 262. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) First time in a while I'm rooting for a Kurt Busch win. 263. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol at Gordon in the top ten. 264. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What the hell? Jeff Gordon is in the top 10? 265. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) THIS IS CRAZY!!! 266. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DAMN!!!!!! 267. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Logano is one it! 268. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Good racing at Fontana? Has hell frozen over? 269. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Logano has this unless he blows up. 270. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) lmao 271. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) holy shit 272. John Royal posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) This is NASCAR. 273. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Best Auto Club race ever. 274. Bronco posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Best ACS finish ever! 275. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn it all! 276. loomer posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) wow 277. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) THAT was some crazy stuff... You just knew they would wreck each other... 278. The Final Gear posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) KYLE WINS!! ALRIGHT!! I really wanted Logano to win that though. Either the 22 or 18 would be fine with me. I think he gained a lot of fans today with that performance. 279. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Busch won lol. 280. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh oh. 281. loomer posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Denny's hurt 282. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) TONY and JOEY!!!!!!!!!!! LMFAO!!!!!!!! 283. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is one of the craziest finishes I've ever seen in my life. Wow. Just what the hell was THAT?! 284. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hard lick for Hamlin, the first responders are attending to him. Hope he's alright. What's Smoke's problem with Logano. 285. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (6) Logano NASCAR career: over. 286. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) If Denny doesn't pick a fight with a lesser driver then run his mouth he wins the race and doesn't go to the hospital. 287. Dave #38Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (13) If Hamlin is hurt, Logano needs to be banned for life, period. 288. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow...Denny's hurt BAD. This...is not good. 289. NadeauFan91 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What in the hell did I just watch!? 290. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I have no problem with the fact that Kyle Busch won, because THAT WAS INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!! 291. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did Hamlin get out of the car on his own power? 292. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Tony vs Logano: The Hypocrite vs The Double Douche I hope Denny's okay. That was a big hit. I think he climbed from the car on his own though. So hopefully he's just shaken up. 293. MarkMartinFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I sure didn't want Hamlin to win. Hope he's alright though. That was extremely hard racing at the end. 294. JRacingfast posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Good racing at Auto Club Speedway?!?!? Fans cheering when Kyle Busch wins.....Has hell frozen over are what?? 295. MarkMartinFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Logano took the words out of my mouth. If Hamlin doesn't wreck him and then run his mouth all week, then its most likely a clean finish and Hamlin wins. 296. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (6) "That's what he gets." f**k you Logano. I hope your happy that Denny is potentially hurt you f**king scumbag. 297. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Logano and Hamlin were just going for the win, what happened between 'em was a racing deal. In fact this was the best finish at Auto Club Speedway in a good while, I hope Hamlin's alright because that was a horrible hit. I guess Tony forgot how he blocked Micheal Waltrip at dega last year and crashed the entire field. I like Smoke but he needs to lay off the sheriff act. 298. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "I guess Tony forgot how he blocked Micheal Waltrip at dega last year and crashed the entire field." That's what I meant when I called him The Hypocrite earlier. I don't necessarily like Tony, but I'd love to see him kick Logano's twig ass. 299. MarkMartinFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) @murb, I highly doubt he's saying that because Denny is hurt. The fact that he crashed is probably what he's referring to. 300. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol at Tony's interview. 301. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hahaha, Tony's interview. Jesus, what a day. 302. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think Stewart was a little mad during his interview. 303. MarkMartinFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Best Stewart interview ever. 304. Bronco posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is Tony getting fined for that? 305. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) are they going to wreck each other at Martinsville? well, are Hamilin and Logano going to go all Brian Vickers Fall 2011 on each other? 306. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Smoke's interview reminded me of AJ Foyt after Kevin Cogan's wreck at the start of the '82 Indy 500. 307. NadeauFan91 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Are you guys blind? Joey got into Denny, then Denny came down and clipped Joey and wrecked himself. Not sure what you guys are seeing. 308. John Royal posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony was PISSED. Gosh! 309. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know MarkMartinFan, but he could at least show a little remorse for his fellow competitor. I'm not trying to defend Denny at all, because this whole little feud with Logano could have been prevented if he had just blown it off. But Logano is a prick for saying that. Just my opinion. If I was him, I would be sick to my stomach to know that Denny might be hurt. 310. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol at Tony Stewart's interview. 311. Mr X posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Good to see that Tony Stewart interview was edited slightly 312. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Race Re-name: The Whinny Bitch 400 Someone needs to put the "Sliced, Special One" in his place. Of course Mikey, Logano wrecked Hamlin deliberately. 313. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Mikey is a close friend of Hamlin's. Him in the booth is such an unprofessional conflict of interest. I hate Denny is hurt, but you put yourself in position for good things to happen and you put yourself in position for bad things to happen. Denny has done the latter. I guess Joey was just supposed to just punch him like Mikey did at Michigan that one year. And that is why Tony has never reached Gordon heights. I guess he is the only one who is allowed to block. And his interview was pretty weak. Too much voice cracking. Can't hold a candle to Dale after Wilkesboro '89. 314. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny's awake and alert. Good to hear. 315. MarkMartinFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've never been a Logano fan but I am kinda happy he's sticking up for himself. I'm sure once he realizes how much he is hurt, he'll feel bad about what he said. But after watching the wreck again, it seems like Denny was trying to save it the whole time. He probably should have just let the car spin out. But hindsight is always 20/20. 316. Kenny posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Man f**k to y Stewart he's a f**king asshole I wish someone would beat his f**king spoiled ass f**king ass bitch!!!!! 317. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They're gonna transport Denny to a local hospital for further check up, hope he's not hurt badly. What happened to Brad K, he was up in the top ten and then just dropped all the way too the mid 20s. 318. Daniel posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) It's pretty bad when I wind up on Logano's side on something. Stewart whines and moans about Vickers blocking and dumps him into the wall, then says it's a racing deal when he blocks Waltrip and takes out half the field, then gets pissed when Logano blocks him. 319. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) The time has come for a bounty on Logano at Martinsville. Perhaps someone should start the biding at $100. Forget a trip to the Big Yellow Truck, the Twitter friends need to settle their differences at Thunderdome. 320. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Mark My words: Kurt Busch and FRM will make the chase. 321. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I have no clue what Stewart said on TV but he said on the radio something about Logano running his mouth on Twitter, and how he's a spoiled Rich kid who's never worked for anything in his life 322. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) On a lighter note, did anyone see Kurt Busch when Fox showed their podium graphic. He was just standing there. I think it may have been a still photo. 323. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) I forget which race it was during Daytona Speedweeks, but Stewart also threw a huge ass block and started a wreck in one of the races down there. He has to be the biggest hypocrite in the garage. I can't wait until he retires so that Brad Keselowski can take over as the "voice of the garage", if you will. Because like 14/88Fan said, Stewart's sheriff stuff is getting old. 324. Matt L posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, I am shocked! Great racing at Fontana??? Credit goes to either the Gen 6 car or the drivers actually wanting to race. Either way, something clicked today that hasn't clicked in a while. Hope Denny Hamlin will be ok. The violence of the hit reminded me of Dale Earnhardt Jr's hard wreck here about a decade ago. 325. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Mark My words: Kurt Busch and FRM will make the chase." Not if Menard quietly gets there first. 326. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) So, which wrestling scriptwriter moonlights as NASCAR's scriptwriter? 327. Kevin posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Have to say I agree with Mikey on one thing, it sure looked like Denny gave Joey enough room going into three. Don't know what Joey's mindest was but I was surprised he didn't take the corner on the apron like most guys were during the course of the race. Looked like Joey got loose and pushed up into Denny to set everything off. Not going to completely accuse Denny of wrecking them after Joey had pushed up as they were both fighting for control of their cars, but I do think Denny had some sense of what he was doing. Really really hope Denny is ok and doesn't miss any time. Hate to see anyone miss races no matter what your feelings on about them. One thing I will say is that Tony is such a hypocrite. I have a very good feeling that he would have done the exact same thing as Logano if the roles were reversed. 328. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wel, here's my take on the finish and he aftermath. Even though Joey Logano said it was payback for what happened last week, I'm not sure I entirely see it that way. Let's not forget that Logano was on much older tires and on the bottom lane. Also, it looked to me that the air from Hamlin's car sucked Joey around a little How much, I don't know. Now neither Hamlin or Logano were going to win anyway because Kyle Busch was going so much faster. Busch would have passed them even if they hadn't crashed, so let's put that to bed. But I'm afraid that Hamlin might have the same thing that Michael Annett suffered at Daytona, because that hit looke like it was at a similar angle to Annett's in the Nationwide race at Daytona. But let's hope Hamlin's okay. And as for Tony Stewart erupting at Logano after the race for no reason, I think that's been brewing for a number of reasons. First, Stewart has great respect for those at Gibbs, including Denny Hamlin, so that might have been a reason. Certainly the blocking on the restart could not have been one since everyone was doing it. Also, let's not forget the terrible start to the season that Tony Stewart's been off to, so I think that was a part of it. But I truly think that, as much as not liking the way Logano blocked him, his eruption toward Logano has more to do with the high regard he has for the Joe Gibbs Racing teams and the apparent low regard Logano has for JGR. And also, let's not forget that this isn't the first time that Logano has made controversial statements about another driver. Of course there were his statements about Kevin and Delana Harvick at Pocono a few years ago and his statements toward Hamiln earlier this year. But he also injected himself into the whole Gordon-Bowyer mess last year saying how he had lost much of his respect for Jeff Gordon, so he even got involved in that situation, which he really didn't need to do. I think that got more than a few veterans ticked off at him. 329. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Mark My words: Kurt Busch and FRM will make the chase." I have to eat some crow right now... I thought that them hiring Kurt (who has seemed totally washed up and senile the past two years) and kicking Regan (a bright young driver with potential) to the curb was a huge mistake. But Kurt has been great in that car so far. I too think he will win at least one or two races this year and make the Chase, especially since guys like Stewart and Gordon need to step it up if they want to make the Chase. I like what I'm seeing from Kurt and the 78 team. 330. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) So, which wrestling scriptwriter moonlights as NASCAR's scriptwriter? Perhaps, Vince Russo is in on the kabuki drama of NASCAR. We might soon see a faction of drivers known as New Racing Order or NRO in 2013. 331. Kenny posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But I just wanna say holey shit to jrs 2nd what was it 10 to go he was 20 something then I look up and he's 5th and winds up 2nd god damn that's amazing 332. BON GORDON posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Top three best California races ever. First off nothing wrong with the finish. Logano and Hamlin were mad at eachother and decided to settle the score. I don't really like Denny Hamlin but I hope he's okay. Tony Stewart should NOT be mad at Logano. I'd block too, it's the end of the race. Joey Logano is gonna have a BIG bullseye on his rear bumper at Martinsville though. Can't wait!!! Speaking of Martinsville being a Jeff Gordon I can't wait till that race in two weeks. He needs to stop the bleeding. I knew he'd struggle a lot today. Finishing 11th is lucky. Had a 15th-25th place car. What I'm mad about is he had 6th place with like 8 laps to go and couldn't even manage to hold on to a Top Ten. That #24 team needs to find whats causing them to have handling issues every week. Good at Bristol and Daytona but that's it. 333. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This year has seen some drivers and teams get off to surprisingly good starts. Like Kurt Busch and Furniture Row, Casey Mears and Germain Racing are doing pretty well as well (they quietly scored another top 15). James Finch's team is running well and high up in the owner's standings...and Dave Blaney's had a few fairly decent runs in Tommy Baldwin's #7. 334. Greg in Florida posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Tony will have to write a BIG check to NASCAR this week. Hopefuly no points. 335. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) when the announcers for WWE call an event do they have a rough idea of the script? or is just as shocking to them as it is to us? 336. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "he also injected himself into the whole Gordon-Bowyer mess last year saying how he had lost much of his respect for Jeff Gordon, so he even got involved in that situation, which he really didn't need to do" He was already involved when Gordon turned Bowyer into the wall in front of him catching him and Aric Almirola up in that wreck. Almirola didn't say anything about the wreck(mostly cause BSPN hardly payed him any deed). So him saying how he'd lost respect for Jeff while a low blow was understandable. 337. Jim Davis posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But he also injected himself into the whole Gordon-Bowyer mess last year saying how he had lost much of his respect for Jeff Gordon, so he even got involved in that situation, which he really didn't need to do." Logano didn't inject himself into that situation; he was collected as an innocent victim. He had every right to express his displeasure with Gordon. 338. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WOW. Did anybody see Stewart's interview on the SPEED channel just now??!! 339. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Just for the record, Hamlin did NOT hit a SAFER barrier. 340. Randy posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) So Tony is the only guy allowed to block??? 341. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It isn't really that shocking to us, so I don't really know jabber. 342. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) This was a big crossroads for Joey. It was his chance to cost somebody a race win who had unnecessarily roughed him up, and he finally did it. As for Denny getting hurt, this is a big crossroads for him too. He now needs to decide, figuratively and literally, if he has the spine to keep racing and talking like he does. Brad did and became something Denny isn't: a champion. Denny definitely needs to pick his battles better. He always comes off on the bad end. This time it cost him a race win and possibly some healthy bones. 343. Michael posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tires that fall off the make racing AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!! 344. David posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, TeamPlayersBlue. What was it like? 345. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How much money says Joey doesn't survive Martinsville without someone wrecking him? 346. The Final Gear posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The tires made this racing really good as Michael said. I'd like to see 2 different compounds in the near future. Like a hard and medium compound, that could make some really good racing. I have a feeling that the inner wall is now going to have SAFER barriers after Hamlin's hit there. 347. Watto posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I really hope Denny is okay. With that being said, people calling for Logano to be "banned for life", I hate to say it, but Denny was pretty much "rage-throttling" there after the contact. He didn't step off the throttle until WAY too close to the wall. Had he not done that, he wouldn't have even come close to the wall. So while Logano drove into 3 without really caring about the 11 car above him (because he was about to lose that race), from a racer's perspective, Denny messed up in a big way laying into the throttle like that. I really hope he's okay. As far as Logano's block on the restart, I think it's fair game. We see that all the time with double file restarts. I don't think Tony would hesitate to block in that position. 348. Kevin posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So the promo Tony just cut on Joey on SPEED, is that a face or a heel promo? You could talk me into both. 349. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) lol, All the guys in the Coca Cola Racing Family hate each other. 350. Watto posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also I want to add that Logano's comment post race about Denny getting what he deserves or something, Joey clearly had no idea that Denny was possibly hurt. 351. Peter posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @ 294 I think they were cheering that Logono was beating & banging on Hamlin 352. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I can't believe I'm actually saying this considering this is Fontana and it has a reputation for putting on dull Cup races... ...but this was the best race of the season so far and almost certainly a highlight of the entire year. I know Fontana can put on pretty good IndyCar races, but I was genuinely surprised to actually see exciting, compelling racing today, especially towards the end. 353. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to agree with everything Tony said in his "promo". Logano is nothing but a little rich asshole that's never had to work for anything in his life. However, when Tony is talking about double standards, he needs to take a look in the mirror. Because as we've been saying, it seems like he thinks he's the only one that's allowed to block out there. As for Denny, yes, he should just blown off this feud with Logano. I hope all of these drivers learn lessons from the past two weeks. What a cluster. 354. Watto posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fontana's put on better races with age on the surface, no need to be surprised :). That 2011 finish was great! 355. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have never seen so many drivers mad at each other in all my years of watching NASCAR. 356. Mr X posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Thanks watto you beat me to it, there's only one person who put Denny Hamlin into the inside wall and that's Denny Hamlin. 357. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) I've lost all respect for Logano. Hamlin gave him so much room on the final lap and Logano just deliberately put him in the wall. That didn't bother me as much, but what Logano said afterwards is what pissed me off -- "That's what he gets" -- are you kidding me? No driver deserves to be taken to the hospital. Logano isn't making many friends this year and it's gonna be a fun race at Martinsville in a couple weeks. 358. Randy posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Hope Denny is OK...but he picks fights with people and then expects them not to retaliate? JJ is not getting involved in tweeter feuds and has 5 championships. 359. Mike posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @323: It was during the Shootout / Unlimited / Whatever its name is. Stewart threw a block on Ambrose going into turn 1 and cars started wrecking. 360. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) New14 & 88Fan, what I was referring to was the comments he (Logano) made about Gordon. I know he was already involved on the track, but he didn't need to get involved off the track. And BON GORDON, it's not just Jeff Gordon, because as bad as he was, Jimmie Johnson was even worse, running 25th for quite a bit of the second half of the race. Gordon's car has no speed, but it's surprising that his cars won't handle for him, either. But another problem for Gordon is the fact, and I mentioned this last year, that his crew chief, Alan Gustafson, is good for a one-year reclaimation project, but has never been that good past the first year with any driver. Kyle Busch was never special with Gustafson, Mark Martin was not that good in 2010, his second year with Gustafson, and it's happening again with Gordon. Gustafson has proven that he's good the first year he's with a driver, but starting with the second year, it goes downhill fast. Also a factor is that Gordon's too conservative early in a fuel run or on a restart, and because of that, he gets eaten alive. For instance, on the next-to-last restart when he was eighth, he dropped anchor and was back in 13th. But Rick Hendrick has to be very concerned because as bad as Jeff Gordon was, at least that was predictable, since I think age has started to catch up with him on the big tracks. Jimmie Johnson's lack of performance today may end up being the surprise of the year, because as bad as Gordon was, Johnson was even worse. Only cautions and restarts allowed him to finish where he did, because he really should have finished 20th or worse. Hendrick Motorsports has a lot of catching up to do by the time the circuit hits Texas. 361. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love how everybody cries about drivers showing no personality, yet when they finally do start showing personality, they cry about that... NASCAR Fans..... Pretty damn good race though. Who would have thought a California race would enter itself in the discussion for Best Race of The Season. You could see that last lap incident coming from 20 miles away. Glad Kyle won. Hope Hamlin is alright. 362. AveryNH posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Denny and Joey was racing. Sorry to say but Joey used him up both got into each other and Denny obviously paid for it pretty severely. Was it fair? well after last week why would Joey roll over for a guy he tried to fight a week prior. As for Tony acting like Billy Bad Butt (a la Charlotte 2011) and just charging at him on pit road both with his car and then in person. Running him all over, then getting him to stop and shoving the hell out of him, because he BLOCKED on the restart? If I recall correctly Stewart incited a massive crash at dega last year doing that very same thing. Tony stewart is such a double standard. Logano needs to make a decision. Be a badass or be pushed around. This is his personal test. As for Denny I hope it's no more than a bruise. And as for smoke. Whatever. He always says something outrageous, stick with that show for a week or two and find a new person to be pissed at. After all this, Kyle Busch is gifted a win and I can assure you that Martinsville will be FUNN!! 363. MStall41 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) @murb, Your negative bias against Logano is showing........again. Logano did absolutely nothing wrong. He fought tooth and nail for the win all race long and showed more desire as a driver today than he has his entire career. As for his comments after the race, he clearly had no idea Hamlin was hurt, and in later interviews after the race he confirmed this and said that he hoped Hamlin was ok and that he had no intention of wrecking him. Logano proved he belongs in this sport today. He has a crap ton of desire as a driver and that finally showed today. He will notch a win or two before the season ends. 364. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, I actually feel disappointed that there's an off week next weekend! 365. Flywheel posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) More lip service from cjs3872. What a shock. When you have some kind of source to back up your claims, then I'm all ears. Until then, cram it. 366. Jarrett88fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) Tony vacillates between heel and face so much it is hard to define just what he is. In a way he has become Hulk Hogan post 2003 with all the political wheeling and dealing in TNA and the WWE. Given the strong runs Kurt Busch has had recently, he might be in position for a babyface run after years of heel (mis)behavior as the Intercontinnental and World Douchebag Champion. 367. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MStall, you must not have read where I was trashing Stewart for his hypocritical rant. JOEY DID NOTHING WRONG BY BLOCKING STEWART. That whole incident was just Stewart freaking out like he usually does. And yes, Logano may not have known that Denny was hurt after the race. But Logano's constant attempts to try and come off like a badass are pissing me off. He's a rich kid that has never had to work for anything in his life. You know who is a badass? His teammate, Brad Keselowski. Brad is a badass because he actually had to work his ass off for years and years to get where he's at. Sure, Brad has ruffled some feathers, just like Joey has been doing. But at least Brad tackled them head on, unlike Logano who has just been hiding behind his crew and his iPhone. And by the way, if your whole "Logano deserves a Cup ride" thing is also directed towards me, then you must not have read my comments where I've actually defended his driving ability. I've previously stated (including last week at Bristol AND earlier on this comment page on comment 181) that Logano has done a great job since his move to Penske. He does deserve a Cup ride. There is no denying Logano's talent and potential. It's his attitude that is in question in my opinion. 368. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) assuming RCR aquires kurt how long will it take until kurt pisses him off and then he's back to where he was in 2012? 369. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And Ty, I wonder how long Roger Penske is going to put up with stuff like that, because that's usually one thing he won't stand for. If there's one thing Penske demands, above all others, it's respect, not only for those inside Penske Racing, but other competiors, as well. I always go back to that race at Michigan in 1972 when he withdrew Gary Bettenhausen just so he could be with his brother Merle, who was so badly injured. After all, a lack of respect is why Kurt Busch is no longer here, and if Joey keeps up his attitude, he'll follow Kurt out the door there. Tht being said, I think you're a little too harsh on Joey for the incident with Hamlin on the final lap. Remember that he was on much older tires, so whether or not he intended to keep off Hamlin is up for debate, I think there was no way he could have kept it off Hamlin because of the tire situation. And neither were going to win anyway because of how fast Kyle Busch was closing. And by the way, Stewart has always been one of the worst when it comes to blocking. In his first Daytona qualifying race in 1999, 14 years ago, he threw a needless block on Dale, Sr., so he's been doing it for a long time, yet gets mad every time somoene does it to him. And going even farther back, does anyone remember the 1997 Indianapolis 500 when he ran Arie Luyendyk into the backstretch grass? That was 16 years ago. Stewart's probably the biggest blocker I can remember in major auto racing in this country, and I've been following auto racing for nearly 25 years, yet can't stand it when it's done to him. But let's not forget this. Tony Stewart has always had a high degree of respect for the Joe Gibbs Racing team, something Logano doesn't seem to have, and perhaps Stewart wanted to stand up for Joe Gibbs Racing. His comments about Logano, while stating the obvious about Logano, may also be intended to defend Joe Gibbs Racing, where he raced for a decade. After all, in the time that has passed since Stewart left Gibbs, I can't think of one incident or problem he's had with a JGR driver. 370. Kenny posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jr is the points leader for the first time seance last summer this is such a grate session :D 371. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Casey Mears and the #13 team are on a roll, up to 21st in the standings with their 3rd top 15 of the year. Deep sleeper. 372. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) About what, Flywheel? Jeff Gordon being conservative on restarts. Andy Petree even mentioned that at Atlanta a couple of years ago Gordon was conservative on restarts. And given how badly Jeff Burton is underperforming yet again in Childress' #31 car, and combine that with how well Kurt's doing in the #78 car (fourth and third the last two races), I wonder how long it will be until Burton is shown the door, which I think should have happened last year. I said that Gordon is showing his age, but as true as that might be, that's nothing compared to the way Burton seems to be showing his age in the #31 car, because he's far off the pace of his teammates, and has been for a couple of years. 373. mrittenhouse84 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) What is in the water at the #22 shop the last few years? First Kurt loses his mind, Then Allmendinger last year, and now Logano's pissing matches the last two weeks? Tony is wrong for freaking out like he did. But in no way should he be fined or docked points. The Interview was pre-recorded. That's on FOX for showing that. I didn't see Tony throwing any punches. although he may have. The comment by Joey about Hamlin getting what he deserves, seems to be taken a little out of context. I believe he meant getting wrecked. Not going to the hospital. I don't believe he knew Denny was hurt. It was all racing deals. They were all blocking on the restarts Joey did nothing wrong. The wreck at the end was neither Denny or Joey's faults either. It was just racing. 374. BON GORDON posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart definately contradicts himself at times but my hero Jeff Gordon does at times too. Tony is my Top three favorite drivers but he should not be too upset with Logano to that point. Logano is an average driver in the Cup Series overall but was really good today. CJS I think Johnson struggling will open Hendrick's eyes for once and I do believe everyone at Team Hendrick will work really hard and get better as the year moves along. I don't agree with you on Gordon's age. Give him a great race car and he'll be up front. Jeff was surprisingly good on restarts today. He just has crappy race cars right now. 375. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i've asked this before and I never got an answer they say once yoru part of the penske Family you are part of it forever, well does that apply to kurt Busch still? 376. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR has revised the finishing order after reviewing the finish. 377. Woodbridge posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (4) Joey Logano is a fruit cake just waiting to be hate crimed. 378. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano is now 3rd Edwards 4th Busch 5th Biffle 6th 379. AveryNH posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No way. That bridge burned years ago after Homestead. Perfect example and comparison, Paul Tracey. PT destroyed a lot of Penske's stuff throughout the late 90s and really hurt their CART for a long while. Penske never really recovered till 2001 long after he let PT walk and go to Kool green team in 1999 where he promptly feuded with his teammates but enjoyed success again on par with his true ability. While the same cant be said about Kurt yet, as he's still on the road back I think that he'll win at least once this year. Whether or not he finds his way into the chase we will see come August. 380. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, was the Logano/Hamlin crash a caution? It's labeled here as one, but I didn't see the caution flag. 381. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://www.nascar.com/en_us/sprint-cup-series/standings/results/2013/auto-club-400.html NASCAR shows Joey Logano finishing 3rd and Kurt Busch finishing 5th. 382. AveryNH posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Revision to my comment @379 De Ferran and Penske won the CART title in 2000 rather dominantly. Slipped my mind. I had to double check after I posted it. Sorry bout that. 383. Baker posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (3) (13) Blocking at a plate track and any other track are two very different things. When you are the leader on the last lap it is your only chance to defend the position and get a win. Funny how everyone is quick to critizie Tony Stewart then defend the disaster than almost killed fans at Daytona this year as a racing deal. The real hypocrites are all you NASCAR fans. I am sure Tony blowing up on Joey Logano has a lot more to do with blocking in this race. Joey Logano has been popping off at the mouth all year long and for a guy who has never done jack squat, nor had to earn a darn thing in his career better watch his next step. I am sure there are at least 30 other drivers that are ready and willing to put that punk in the hospital whether it be by car or whippin ass after the race. It is just a shame that Tony is the only driver in the garage with enough hair on his nuts to do something about it. Tony, you have made enough money now please just retire from this crooked sport and these joke fans. Just come back to dirt tracking full time. Same goes for Larson and Stenhouse just come back to dirt because you will never be welcome by these inbred rednecks. f**k Nascar, f**k Joey Logano, f**k you hypocrite fans. 384. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) BON GORDON, I would agree if it was just about any other team owner, but Hendrick has always let his people iron things out. That's why he's been so successful over the years, but Johnson's stunning failures today will open sone eyes at Hendrick Motorsports, but I think Rick will leave things the way they are. And as for Gordon's age being a factor in his performance, for better or for worse, the two places where that figured to work to his advantage among the race held so far this year are the two places he's contended, Daytona and Bristol, but on the wide open tracks, such as Vegas and Fontana, that works against the real experienced drivers because they're naturally hesitant to hold the throttle wide open, even if their car is performing well, simply because they know what can happen if things go wrong at that speed. For instance, he'll be a factor at Martinsville for those very reasons, but he likely won't be a factor at Texas becuase you have to keep the throttle down to be competitive. This same thing happened to Richard Petty, Darrell Waltrip, Bobby Allison, Dale, Sr., Rusty Wallace, and Dale Jarrett late in their careers, and it's happening to Gordon now. Darlington's a hybrid, so we don't know what will happen there. 385. Eric posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch is now tied with Matt Kesneth, Joe Weatherly, and Jim Paschal with 25 career cup wins. Kyle is one win away from being tied with Fred Lorenzen for career cup wins. I think Jeff Burton is going to call it a cup career after this year or being headed lower NASCAR teams in the cup series. If he wants to continue to race in NASCAR, go to the truck series. The truck series is good for older drivers. I agree that Jeff Gordon's skills are on the decline some, but I think Hendrick's cars outside of Dale Jr. was crap today. Kahne wasn't as bad as Jeff's and Jimmie's either. 386. Greg posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) You know it's a strange race when Kyle Busch wins and people moan about something else! If Logano keeps making enemies in the paddock he's getting nowhere on the long haul. He may be trying to stand up for himself but in doing so he's already angered Tony within weeks of the season having started. And you don't want to make Tony angry regardless of who's right or wrong. I suspect Tony will get even with him sooner rather than later. 387. Stewart14Fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) I it just me that was a hell of a race man is Hamlin dead sure hope not Damon go to a psychologist Logan's little basterd 388. Jim Davis posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "I suspect Tony will get even with him sooner rather than later." I don't. Stewart gets over these things quickly. Remember last year at Bristol, throwing his helmet at Kenseth, and vowing to wreck him every chance he gets? It'll all blow over by the Wednesday. 389. mammavoobs posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol gramma 390. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "Funny how everyone is quick to critizie Tony Stewart then defend the disaster than almost killed fans at Daytona this year as a racing deal. The real hypocrites are all you NASCAR fans." If Regan Smith was someone who complained about blocking for his whole career, then I would have called him a hypocrite too for what happened at Daytona. Personally, I don't have a problem with blocking (within reason - running someone into the grass like Skinner did at Talladega in 1999 is totally ridiculous). It's just one of the aspects of auto racing. But when you complain about it your whole career like Tony has, and then have numerous incidents of it over the past few years, then that is a double standard. As for all of us being hypocrites, I realize that in this situation, yes, I probably am a hypocrite. Oh well. 391. Ed posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR.com has Joey 3rd, Carl 4th, Kurt 5th, and Biffle 6th. Everything else matches 392. BON GORDON posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff Gordon will be back. Is he as good as he was ten years ago, no but he's still Jeff Gordon. I still think he has one more great season left in him and a few good ones too. I think it will be a struggle this year but he's gonna keep fighting till he retires. Age isn't a huge factor yet sorry, it's ill handling race cars. 393. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) This isn't anything new, Tony always been a hypocrite. See: 2006 Daytona 500 394. Joe Fan #87 posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Denny started this whole crap last week. Granted Joey was just as stupid for doing what he did. It's getting blown up only cause Denny is in the hospital, which in my opinion, is a bunch of bullshit. I really don't think he is AS hurt was what he says he is. As for Tony...dumbass comes to mind. Guess it's ok to start a 25 car pileup at Dega..... 395. joey2448 posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Wow I'm actually surprised that everyone on this comment board isn't tearing up Logano for the "terrible" things he did, although I read a couple ones suggesting a lifetime ban. This race was awesome. Smoke is the man! I don't know why he felt that he had to fight Logano, but Logano needs to hear it. And Stewarts interview was hilarious! 396. Greg posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Re #388: Yeah, but Stewart and Kenseth are veterans. I don't think Tony will get over it so quickly for someone of Logano's experience. Besides, NASCAR needs Tony's personality more than it needs Logano trying to man up and earn some respect within the paddock. 397. Eric posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) cjs3872, I don't think you can put Dale Sr. in the same boat as Richard Petty, Darrell Waltrip, Bobby Allison, Dale Jarrett and Rusty Wallace late in their careers. Dale Sr.'s skills didn't decline to the degree as those drivers did. Dale was extremely competitive in 2000. Dale's qualifying skills were on the decline, but Dale never was known for his qualifying skills anyway. The only thing thing seemed to be the decline was his road course skills. Dale Sr. didn't care where he started, he only cared about where he finished. The problem is Dale finished 2nd in points in 2000. Yes, Dale had better seasons, but he had one over the best seasons ever by a driver that was 49 years old or older. The thing was Dale was great on race day in 2000 despite being a poor qualifier. Dale had the most amount of top 10's in a season since 1994 and had the most amount of top 5's since 1996. If Dale sr. didn't get into a wrecking leading at the spring race at Bristol, Dale would have had 3 cup wins. Dale Sr. also had a strong run in the 2nd Pocono race before some of the car broke and finished 25th. What happened to Dale Earnhardt in 1997, 1998, and 1999 was Dale racing hurt besides RCR falling behind. Dale got in the summer race at Talladega in 1996 and he wasn't healthy again before the 1999 season ended when he had neck surgery done. 398. Kenny posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (9) I hope tony is fined at least $250,000 and docked 100 points 399. TS1420 posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (4) (2) I'm glad to see Tony is hated on once again for doing the same stuff that the "Good Ol' Boys" were praised for. 400. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Hopefully in the near future the moderator grammar checks some of these comments before they are posted on this board. 401. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) didn't Tony apoloigise for starting the crash at Talladega? 402. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I didn't watch a single lap of this race, but I predicted the other day that this would be the best Cup race ever at Fontana, and from the reaction from a lot of you guys on here, it sounds like my prediction was true. I've been watching some post-race coverage from this race, so here are some of my thoughts on what happened today. First off, congrats to Kyle Busch on his 25th career Cup win, as he passes brother Kurt on NASCAR's all-time wins list. I'm glad that he was able to win a meaningful race this season (Not that the Nationwide races aren't meaningful, but they aren't for the Cup drivers driving for Cup teams.), and I'm also happy for 18fan, who is a noted Kyle Busch fan and got to see his favorite driver win on the final lap of his (18fan's) home track. This means that both JGR drivers who aren't getting themselves in silly feuds have won races entering the first bye week of the season, which may mean great things for them down the road. Also, congrats to Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson on taking junk cars and finishing 11th and 12th on this bumpy 2-mile track. Wait...did I just congratulate two of the greatest drivers of all-time on their top 15 finishes??? Good grief, unless the #48 and #88 teams swapped crews for this race, those two teams need to find something fast before the series goes to Texas, the next speedway track on the schedule. It would be best if those four teams could work together, but with Kenny Francis and Chad Knaus at the HMS shop, that won't happen. I love how HMS is portrayed as being a family in the media and on that "Beyond 200" episode, because it seems to me that more throat-cutting takes place behind the scenes at HMS than any other team in NASCAR. Phoenix Racing went from possibly not returning for the 2013 season to one of the biggest turnaround teams in NASCAR this season. With three different drivers behind the wheel with one combined win in Sprint Cup, they already have more top 20 finishes through five races (4) than 24-time winner Kurt Busch did through five races in 2012 (3). Good for that team, and I hope they keep up this momentum the rest of the season. Same for Casey Mears and the Germain Racing team. The #13 team now has three top 20 starts and three top 15 finishes through the first five races this season. Another smaller team that's made a solid turnaround from 2012. That team had just one top 15 finish in 2012 (would have been two if not for Stewart's block at Talladega), and none on the oval tracks. Hell of a turnaround for that team, and their driver, who was a disappointment in great equipment earlier in his career, has done his job very well and may be the most improved driver since 2012. Don't be surprised if that team scores its first speedway top ten finish before we're halfway through the season. Kurt Busch is a wheelman. Period. He will win a race this season. It'll probably be either on a restrictor plate track or a road course, but you will see both Busch brothers win a race in 2013. And if the chips fall correctly, he might just eke out a Chase berth. I like Kurt, but even I wasn't a fan of FRR's decision to release Regan Smith in favor of Kurt Busch, but I was wrong and it's really paying off for them. Don't be surprised if he's the most consistent RCR/FRR driver this season. (Or at least 2nd most consistent, as Paul Menard seems to be a top 10-15 machine this season.) And while I've been right about a few of my predictions this weekend, I was dead wrong about Logano not paying Hamlin back, as that's exactly what happened on the final lap. Some may say it was a racing incident. I beg to differ, because no driver accidentally runs another car up the track from the bottom to the top on the frontstretch on accident. Logano deliberately wrecked Hamlin, and while I don't think he meant for Hamlin to wreck the way he did, he did mean to ruin his day and wound up ruining both of theirs as Hamlin got wrecked and Logano wound up finishing 6th. Quite frankly, I'm pretty disgusted by those of you who are basically saying "I hope Denny Hamlin's alright, but he got what he had coming to him." So he deserved to hit the inside wall head-on with no SAFER barrier to protect him? Yes he got into Logano last week, and yes he did run his mouth before this race in response to what Logano said about him on Twitter. But the second that I hear that Hamlin basically got what he had coming to him, I stop listening to you, because no driver deserves to hit the wall head-on and get hurt as a result of it. And I'm pretty disgusted that some of you, including WonderMedic (how ironic), feel that way about Hamlin "getting what he had coming." As for Tony Stewart, he wrecked a driver (I forget his name) in a sprint car race the other day while battling for 2nd, so it's a little funny that he would be complaining about another driver racing him too hard for the lead just two days later. I guess it's "do as I say, not as I do" with Tony Stewart. That being said, I'm glad that he roughed up Logano a little bit after the race because of what Logano did to Hamlin, even if it was for a completely different reason. Perhaps Stewart shoved him partly because of what little respect Logano showed towards Stewart's former teammate and former team, but either way I'm glad he gave Double Douche a small taste of his own medicine after the race. I'll end my post with a quote that I heard Kurt Busch over the radio from the 2011 season (I think it was from the fall Richmond race): Nobody has any respect for anybody anymore. While that's not entirely true, it describes a large number of drivers in the garage area. Logano doesn't respect Hamlin because he ran him up the track and put him in the wall on the final lap, he doesn't truly respect JGR or Joe Gibbs because of what he's done to one of his cars this race, and he doesn't respect Roger Penske enough to not make an embarrassment out of The Captain and his team for his behavior the past week in regards to his feud with Hamlin. I can't imagine Penske was happy to find out that his new driver just blew a shot at a 2nd place finish by wrecking his ex-teammate on the final lap, and it's crap like this that gets talented drivers fired from top teams like Penske Racing. Logano had better grow up and focus on having great runs and finishes like he had today, and not engage in silly feuds with emotionally fragile drivers if he wants to continue driving for arguably the greatest race car owner of all-time. 403. Anonymous posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) Nascar fans all the time: "Wahh, Nascar today totally is devoid any of personalty, and all of the just a bunch sissies and robots!!" Nascars fans after multiple drivers show their emotions out on the track: "What an asshole! That was seriously a pussy move, he should be banned for life and fined 50 thousand dollars. f**k him!" Face it, did Nascar drivers really have more personality back and day or did you guys just get more cynical and jaded as you got older? Because Dale Earnhardt, Richard Petty, Darrell Waltrip, etc. did hypocritical shit all the time, just like Tony. 404. Schroeder51 posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #402...I'm sad to say that you're right. For a lot of today's drivers, the only person or organization they respect is their own selves. 405. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (3) (3) Apparently Logano threw a water bottle at Stewart after their confrontation when the crew members separated them. First he thinks he's Dale Earnhardt by holding up his steering wheel after winning meaningless Nationwide races with cars that a monkey could driver, now he thinks he's Rusty Wallace by throwing a water bottle at a multi-time champion's head. Until he learns how to be his own man, he'll never be one. 406. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 403: 1995 Subaru WRX STI is that you. 407. 83andJoe posted: 03.24.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >NASCAR.com has Joey 3rd, Carl 4th, Kurt 5th, and Biffle 6th. Everything else matches That may become the 'official' order, as the field was frozen when the caution came out, and the caution came out before the field reached the line. Which is somewhat silly but them's the rules. 408. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I wish more drivers would do what Kyle Petty did after he got collected in Bobby Hillin, Jr.'s wreck in the 1993 Daytona 500. Rather than talk to the media, say something you'll probably regret, and create a feud with another driver, drivers should learn to just say nothing, walk away, and cool off in private. Act like a professional, not some immature dirt track driver. 409. 1995z71 posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ADMIN: Nascar.com lists the top 6 as follows: 1.Kyle Busch 2.Dale Earnhardt Jr. 3.Joey Logano 4.Carl Edwards 5.Kurt Busch 6.Greg Biffle 410. 1995z71 posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) damn, 83andJoe beat me to it. 411. 18fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Paul, thank you very much for the congratulations. This was an incredible race to be at. There was a great crowd there and there was great racing throughout the day. I will say something about Logano and this has nothing to do with any of his feuds. I thought today was the best race of his Cup career. He did a great job all day long. It seemed like the bottom was better for a few laps after the restarts, and Logano's car was awesome on the bottom right after a restart, so I had a feeling that he was going to be the guy to beat once the caution came out for Bowyer. Kyle's car took a little bit of time to come in and didn't really come in until his preferred top groove came in. At least nobody can say that Kyle only won this race because Joey and Denny wrecked. Kyle was already ahead of them before they made any contact. Did FOX ever mention why Brad was so far off the pace the last few laps? One last thought: Other than during full field rundowns, the MRN broadcast rarely, if ever, mentioned Danica. 412. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) montoya is talking in Twitter about the weird problems he had with his car doesn't he have the strangest things happen with his car? I mean Daytona 2012, what was the cause of that did his axel snap? has that ever happened before? 413. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Go to a Guns 'n' Roses concert and make a lot of noise. That's the easiest way to make an Axl snap. ;) 414. Zackary Shawn posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Finishing order needs to be updated.. 415. Kenny posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I love guns n roses :D 416. Zackary Shawn posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Eric. Bobby Allison won the Daytona 500 his last season in NASCAR. He got injured at Pocono and that effectively ended his career. Not really what I call a late career fall off. Also, Rusty made the Chase and had a top 10 points finish his last full year so I wouldn't say he fell off either. 417. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Aside from the last lap wreck, the finish to this race reminds me of the finish of the '09 Michigan Nationwide race, as the two leaders got distracted with each other, allowing the 3rd place car to swoop in and win the race from the outside lane. The only differences are the Kyle was the winner this time instead of the one who lost the lead, and all three participants this time had roots with JGR instead of HMS. 418. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Did FOX ever mention why Brad was so far off the pace the last few laps?" Of course not. Very well said on post 402, Paul. I agree with your thoughts on the whole love triangle thing with Logano, Hamlin, and Stewart. 419. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (7) (1) Racing is a dangerous sport, and Denny is hurt right now cause he unnecessarily escalated a fued with his mouth to a driver that he wound up racing for the win. Nobody meant for him to take such a wicked hit, but that is the way the cards fall sometime. If you are gonna race like that, you have to be prepared for the consequences. That is what led Dale to go to The Big Jiffy Lube In The Sky. If you are gonna drive rough, you better have a spine. And look, I don't like Joey at all, but he did what he had to do. If he didn't run Denny up the track while racing for the win one week after being dumped then told you are a crappy driver, you are just telling the competition "I am free game, punt away". He didn't turn him, he side swiped him which led to an awful crash somehow. One person could have prevented Denny "The Ego" Hamlin from going to the hospital and that person is Denny "The Ego" Hamlin. 420. 18fan posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, Logano lost all respect for JGR when they didn't offer him a full-time Cup ride for this year when they were signing Matt Kenseth because he viewed anything less than a full time Cup ride as a slap in the face. Now he has proved that he is at least deserving of a Cup ride, but I don't think he realized that JGR didn't bring him back more because they could sign Matt Kenseth. 421. jabber1990 posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny might spend the night in the hospital, I am just asking, isnt that precation for if you go to the hospital for any reason? 422. Randy posted: 03.24.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Tony has a blocking addiction... as a blocking addict he got mad because somebody took his blocking away. He needs an intervention fast! 423. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Zackary Shawn (#416), I was the one that brought up the fall-offs of those drivers and the one type of track it's going to show up at first is the high-speed tracks like Auto Club Speedway, Vegas, Charlote, etc. because a veteran driver is going to be hesitant to put his foot on the throttle because of what can happen. But tracks like the short tracks and restrictor plate tracks are where the real veterans can still shine because thay can use that experience to their advantage. And DSFF, he ended up running Denny up the track because he had much older tires. Whether or not he intended to run him up the track is one thing, and only Joey knows that, but even if he didn't intend to run Denny up the track, hi car was going to wash up there because of the poorer handling caused by running much older tires, and amplified by the fact that Denny's car also took air off the right side of Joey's car. But Joey's car was going to wash up the track under those circumstances no matter who he was racing for those reasons. It just happened to be that Denny ended up the victim. 424. murb posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) After having more time to think about this, here are the conclusions I've come to. - Joey and Denny's battle for the win was just racing. I'm not blaming any of them for the wreck happening. - I hope the past two weeks have been a wake up call for Joey Logano. He's gotten into it with two different guys in two weeks. I hope he realizes that he needs to focus on his and his team's own race instead of trying to prove to the world that he is something other than the next Jeremy Mayfield. - Tony continues to get sidetracked by his default role of Garage Area Enforcer. Much like Logano, he needs to stop worrying about stupid stuff and get to focusing on his race team. And while he's at it, maybe help out the driver of the 10 car too (by the way, 26th and just one lap down for her today - monumental!!!!) - Denny needs to take some of that great behind the wheel talent he has and put it up in his head. This feud with Logano was unnecessary. Just blow off the little bastard and go out and win the race (because you know Denny, you are driving the fastest cars in the series right now, after all). Notice a pattern? All of this shit has been completely unnecessary. None of it needed to happen. And if any of these three guys had just the slightest amount of mental toughness and the ability to just shrug things off, one of them would have won the race today. You see what happens when you focus on important stuff? Kyle Busch has been known to get involved in stupid storylines like these, but I must commend him by saying that he's been doing a great job recently of staying out of trouble. He's focused on winning races and nothing else. Now if only he could just cut back considerably on the NNS races to focus even more on that Cup ride. Good job by him today though. 425. Aaron posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First time I believe since they took over NASCAR coverage in 2001 that FOX did not interview the 2nd-place finisher. Add to the fact the 2nd-place finisher is Dale Earnhardt Jr., the points leader and the sport's most popular driver and it is more surprising. 426. Matt G posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guess I have to eat some serious crow after stating last week that Fontana was the most boring track on the schedule. My bad guys - HAHA /Let the fruit throwing commence. 427. ch posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor changes: 17 - NOS Energy Drink 19 - G-Oil 22 - Southern California AAA 30 - Swan Energy 33 - Circle Sport 78 - Furniture Row / Denver Mattress 428. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ""Did FOX ever mention why Brad was so far off the pace the last few laps?" Of course not." Reminds me of the Nationwide race yesterday when BSPN conveniently didn't mention Regan Smith as he charged his way up to a solid 3rd place finish after his flat tire earlier in the race. In fact, that tied the #7 team's best career oval speedway finish (since 2010 when it was renumbered from #5 to #7), tying Kasey Kahne's (a Cup driver) 3rd place finish at Loudon '11, and was the second-best finish by that team since 2010, only behind Ron Fellows' (great road course ringer) and Jimmie Johnson's (Hall of Fame driver) 2nd place finishes at Road America and Watkins Glen in 2011, respectively. "the whole love triangle thing with Logano, Hamlin, and Stewart." I forgot to mention this in my #402 post, but murb reminded me of it right here. Is it just a coincidence that JGR drivers have all generally been misbehaved individuals since Bobby Labonte's departure after the '05 season, or could it be that not having a strong team leader behind the wheel for seven seasons is the reason for the attitudes of some of those drivers? Now obviously Tony Stewart had attitude problems while Bobby Labonte was his teammate, but it seems like since 2006, that team has been fairly chaotic as far as the drivers are concerned. As you all remember, 2006 was the only year that Tony Stewart missed the Chase, partly because of his feuds with the likes of Matt Kenseth and Carl Edwards that got him side-tracked from the big picture. 2006 of course was the first year that Stewart didn't have Labonte for a teammate. Things would get worse the following two seasons as Stewart became more and more frustrated with the performance of his cars (especially in '08 when he wasn't JGR's No. 1 focus), Denny allowed his rookie season success get to his head and became an egomaniac, and Kyle Busch entered the foray and quickly became the sport's biggest "love him or hate him" driver with his incredible talents and brash attitude. As bad as things were in '08, they would only get worse over the next four years as Denny started to engage in a feud with then-Nationwide driver Brad Keselowski and have the most epic collapse in Sprint Cup history when he (and his team) choked away the 2010 championship to Jimmie Johnson (who had his second most impressive season in Cup as far as getting the most out of his equipment, after 2008), Kyle started to have meltdowns on an almost weekly basis in all three series, and a new kid named Joey Logano took over the #20 car from Stewart and didn't bring the results or leadership that Stewart had with him. Now it looks like JGR is finally back on the right track. They replaced Logano with champion driver Matt Kenseth, who I think has largely helped stabilize any friction within the JGR garage after that team's disappointing 2012 season. I think Kyle Busch has benefited most from that, as he not only has a win in the first five races, but has recovered from a very slow start and has racked off three straight top four finishes and jumped from 33rd to 6th place in the points as a result. Would the Kyle Busch from '09-'12 be able to recover from such a deficit so quickly without a strong leader like Matt Kenseth to help him during the week? I don't think so. By the way, this is the 4th time since joining JGR that Kyle has a win in the first five races of the season, and each previous time ('08, '09, '11) he won at least four races that season. I'm annoyed by his large Nationwide schedule this season, but at least he has delivered on the Cup side and hasn't let his large schedule drag him off course. But for whatever reason, Tony Stewart, Denny Hamlin, and Joey Logano haven't changed the way we would hope they have. I don't want to get into this whole "New and Improved Kyle Busch" BS that we hear on a yearly basis, but so far I am very impressed by his attitude, and hope that he continues to behave this way from here on out (though I'll admit I'm going to miss his meltdowns if he maintains his composure). That leaves just Stewart, Hamlin, and Logano as JGR drivers who just haven't quite gotten it in the head. Stewart has always acted this way, even when he was teammate with Bobby Labonte, and I don't expect him to ever truly change (although being a co-owner/driver has PC'd him a bit), and Logano never had a strong mentor in his racing career and thus has never had the chance to truly "get it." But Denny Hamlin is the one who disappoints in all of this, because it was he wanted JGR to go after Matt Kenseth early last season and has been the senior driver at JGR for the past five years, yet here he is messing around with yet another driver and taking his eyes off the prize. I don't approve of what Logano did to him and I wish Hamlin a speedy recovery from what transpired today, but if he were to just ignore a little punk like Logano, none of this would have happened. Logano has no respect for Hamlin and apparently has no respect for JGR by tearing up his former boss' cars, and thus Hamlin should have just not said anything regarding Logano in the week leading up to this race. I'm not saying he got what he had coming to him, but he definitely messed with the wrong prick leading up to this race; the same prick who caused the "big one" at Talladega last year that injured Eric McClure in the Nationwide race, and showed no remorse for what he did in victory lane. You don't want to mess with a driver without a solid conscience, and that's exactly what Hamlin did. If he would have just done what Kyle Petty did at Daytona '93 and just walked away without saying anything the whole week, this whole feud would have blown over and nothing would have happened. But it's clear that Hamlin hasn't learned anything from Kenseth's presence, and now thanks to his mouth and the fact that Logano has no clear conscience, he got hurt today and may have a back injury. I hope this isn't the case, but remember that Jeff Gordon suffered a back injury in a similar fashion when he hit a non-SAFER barrier at Las Vegas '08. Look at how off-track Gordon's career has become since that crash, and he's (or at least was) one of the MOST focused drivers in the garage area. If Hamlin's injury is as bad as Gordon's, with his fragile psyche, this could be devastating on his career, and all because he made a few insulting comments towards his ex-teammate over the internet. What a way to (potentially) ruin your own career. 429. Eric posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn, I was already aware of Bobby Allison's 1988 Daytona win, but Bobby himself was on the decline despite being competitive even before his 1988 Pocono wreck. Bobby's prime ended after 1983. All of Bobby's final wins were either at Daytona or Talladega beginning in 1986. Bobby was slipping if you look at some of the races in 1988 that he raced in like at Riverside, Rockingham, and North Wilkesboro. before the Pocono race, Bobby Allison had a top 10 half of his races. Bobby was getting another 13 to 15 top 10's in a season like he did in 1986 and 1987. Those stats were a sign of Bobby Allison on the decline though because of what Bobby Allison was in his prime. Take a look at Rusty Wallace in 2005. Rusty was competitive and made the chase with him being 8th in points, but he was not in his prime despite him having his best season in top 10's since 2000. Rusty was on the decline in the same way as Bobby Allison was. That means a drive that competitive, but was not in his peak for week in and week out. That meant Rusty and Bobby were no longer threats for championship despite being competitive. 430. Kyle L posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Not only that DSFF, but the part of the wreck that sent Hamlin to the hospital was Hamlin's fault. After Joey side swiped the 11, Denny turned hard left trying to hook Logano into the wall. He was successful in doing so, but by making that move he also spun himself resulting in a trip to the inside wall and the hospital. The other folks that needs to take some heat here are the owners of the track. There's simply no excuse to not have a SAFER barrier where Denny hit. They decided it was Okay to cut costs and put the safety of the drivers in jeopardy and it bit them today. Every inch of that track inside and outside needs to have the most up to date technology when it comes to safety. 431. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Rusty's '03 and '04 seasons proved that he was well past his prime, as he managed a combined one win and five top five finishes those two seasons (which is what he had in '92 alone, his worst season in competitive equipment before '03). His '05 season was a testament to the new Dodge Charger, which for two seasons made the top Dodge teams become more competitive (until the COT came onto the scene and screwed over all the non-HMS teams). 432. Richie61NYfan posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Hope Denny is ok. Joey got into the outside wall and Denny went into a harmless spin but tried to save it by getting into the power and crank the wheel right. He basically drove himself into the inside wall and never locked them up until he was past the point of no return. Nice to see Joey being more agressive as he was always accused of being a woose. How about the Dinger !! He's ahead of the GoDaddy Diva in points in only 3 races to her 5. Kyle sure was hooked up today too. All in all,was a good race. 433. Matt G posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One to add to the nickname list up top (although it's a bt outdated) Mike Skinner - Mike Spinner 434. I love Japan posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Great race. I think this is an instant classic. Bar none. 435. mk20ce99 posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) I guess Tony Stewart forgot about his blocking at Talladega last year that resulted in a major wreck on the last lap that took out the entire field. Tony is just a belly achin fat ass who feels everyone does him in and he has never done any wrong in this sport! 436. Eric posted: 03.24.2013 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richie61NYfan, The only info that is known about Hamlin is He has some back pain based on the interview Kenny Wallace had with Dave Rodgers. 437. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 03.24.2013 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First time I believe since they took over NASCAR coverage in 2001 that FOX did not interview the 2nd-place finisher. Add to the fact the 2nd-place finisher is Dale Earnhardt Jr., the points leader and the sport's most popular driver and it is more surprising. ' The first points-earning Cup race FOX covered, teh 2001 Daytona 500, did not have the second place finisher interviewed, and again, it was Dale Jr. And in both races, a noteable last lap crash occured close to the end of the feild. Now while Hamlin's crash is definately not as bad as Dale Sr's fatal crash, this does bring me onto a topic I do want to discuss. We may have already entered Generation 6 in cars, but I'll say right now, time to see what in the cars we need to change before we go into another 1999-2001 in Motorsports again! NASCAR has had to many injuries in the last few years, and I am beginning to become concerned. Eric McLure at least three times since 2008(?), Hamlin at Talladega fall in 2008, Sadler at Pocono *To be fair, the hardest hit in a NASCAR race*, Gordon at the Glen in 2009, Hamlin, Ragan and Reuta-However-the-heck-you-spell-it in 2011 at the Glen, Brad Keselowski at Road Atlanta Testing, Denny Hamlin today, Dale Jr twice last year at Kansas and Talladega. I've heard rumors, mind you, only rumors, that Bayne suffered a Head Injury in his 2011 Talladega Spring crash, but still, it all has become very daunting to me. This is not counting the 40 plus injuries we have seen from the fans between Talladega and Daytona. This may very well be lost in the hype of the whole Denny vs Logano vs Stewart thing, but it needs to be said. If some hothead gets a bit to angry with an older driver who isn't at Physical Peak Performance, say, Stewart in four or five years, Gordon, etc, it could be just enough to kill somebody. Or maybe it won't even need to be a hothead or a rivalry. Maybe just a parts failure, a driver err, a racing incident, tire failure, etc. But something does need to be done about the safety of this sport. I remember a time when I could proudly beam and say that of the big three, NASCAR had fewer injuries then Indycar or F1. And while I don't wish bad on those two amazing open wheeled series, and while there have been shocking and depressing incidents in the IndyCar series recently, it pains me to say that NASCAR may not be as safe as it once was. What has changed though, for the worse, since 2008? Or better yet, what has changed period since 2008 that has allowed us to see this disturbing upwards tick in injuries? Could it be the COT, and that the COT and now Gen-6 might not be as safe as once supposed? Is it only one quality in these more recent two gens of cars, or could it be multiple details? or am I overlooking something else that is NOT the cars. Just please, if anyone can think of something that would explain this, enlighten me. - - - - - - I said it hit and miss, but didn't really say it consistently to honestly say 'Told ya so', but I have half-predicted Jeff's decline. His nightmarish 2008 was the sign for me that he was going down. At the time, I had only been a NASCAR fan for 4 years. And at the time, the stupid young-idiot in me only liked the crashes and close finishes. But even then, I noticed something small, some type of...change, with Jeff Gordon. Was it a lack of drive, a minor voice in his head which presented fear, or was it my Career-Lessening Crash Theory? Since 2011, I have formulated a theory about many legendary drivers, and why almost un-expectantly, their careers take a sudden downward spiral. A crash occurs in their career, and it wakes up something in the sub-conscious, or maybe even their conscious mind, and they just push it aside. However, something in the comes to this realization: They may be one of the best, but they are not invicible. Do they really want to toss their wonderful lives to the wind of another bad accident? I've looked at several drivers, and I see some of them going through this. Richard Petty: 1981 at Pocono. If you compare the first third of 1982 to 1981 for King Richard 'Dick' Petty, some very startling stats show up. In fact, after that, you can count on two hands the number of remaining races that the King still contended up front with. Most of them plate races. Let us continue this. Darrel Waltrip. Two crashes come to mind, the 1990 Pepsi/Firecracker 400 practice incident, or his more famous 1991 Pepsi 400 crash. Stunningly, 'Jaws' entire career changed in a flash. Oh, they still drove the same...kind of. But the change was noticeable. And it was there. Dale Earndhart Sr. Obviously, 1996 DieHard 500. He was driving 'injured' for the next three years, but the year afterwards, 1997, was a disaster. Passing out behind the wheel at Darlington *And NOT being Pregnant, mind you*, and the rolling effect of the Daytona 500. Truthfully, we can only compare year 2000 with pre-1996 stats, and that is a 4/5 year jump, but it is still there. What about Million Dollar Bill. Maybe this applies, maybe it doesn't with him. One can't draw a huge comparison between 1995 and 1997 Bill Elliot, the results are somewhat similiar. But could his 1996 Talladega crash clicked something in his mind also? Jeff Gordon. He has gone through so much now, I don't think we can point out one accident. 2006 Pocono does seem to early, and 2011 Richmond to late. But I like pinning the blame on the 2008 Vegas crash he suffered, then blame a slight-pausing of the downward process on things like his 2009 Watkins Glen Crash. Does every driver go through one of these? No. Bobby Allison, Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin are a few I can think of who had slow downward curves in their career, curves that didn't appear to be hastened by crashes. I can name two others. Dale Earndhart Jr and Jimmie Johnson. Jr is the 2004 Sonoma incident. Johnson, the 2011 Darlington crash. And while both drivers are still doing good, I have to admit, I do see a more conservative change in their driving styles since then, and a downgrade in performance. It seems insane, I know, but look at how two details continue to show themselves with each one of these crashes. A): They were very big, very noteworthy crashes, some of them we are still talking about and wincing from 30 years later, and B): Even in most crashes do just sort of 'appear' on the track, the main drivers involved had no warning, no reaction time, no nothing. Compare an onboard of Dale Sr's '96 'Dega crash to that of Gordon's Glen Crash and Gordon's Vegas crash. Just dropped out of the freaking sky. One frame, your running fine, the next, you're totally screwed. Just something to think of. - - - - About the finish, here's my idea quickly summed up. Racing incident. It looks like it, even though we are left with minimal camera angles. Hope hamlin's okay, good to see Logano standing up for himself, now if he can buckle down and get some wins out of this mind-set. Stewart is a ****, and I have NEVER liked him unless the alternative is Keselowski. And I really badly want Kurt Busch to win a race THIS YEAR, just as a giant Mindf*ck to all of us who have criticized him, me included. 438. Eric posted: 03.24.2013 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Destroyahirismix666, I think you meant the 1980 Pocono crash with Richard Petty. Richard Petty didn't get into a crash at Pocono in 1981, he did in 1980 and got a broken neck from that crash. 439. cjs3872 posted: 03.24.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @437, you forgot to mention, in the case of Darrell Waltrip, his 1983 Daytona 500 crash, which even Junior Johnson has said had a lasting impact on him. Now whther you believe that or not is your decision. But the other bad crash that Waltrip had that effectively ended his career as a competitive driver was the one he suffered while battling for the lead in the 1995 All-Star Race. And your statement is the first I've heard of Trevor Bayne possibly suffering a head injury at Talladega in 2011. And Richard Petty's crash at Pocono that you refer to occurred in 1980, not 1981. But the downturn in Bill Elliott's career had more to do with becoming an owner/driver in 1995 more than his Talladega crash in 1996. Let's not forget that he nearly won the 1997 Daytona 500 and led the most laps in the 1997 Southern 500. If any crashes would have affected Bill Elliott, it would have been the terrible crashes he suffered in back-to-back weeks at Talladega (with Dale, Sr.) and what is now Auto Club Speedway (with Dale Jarrett) in 1998. But another driver you forgot to mention was A.J. Foyt. In 1977, Foyt became the first 4-time Indianapolis 500 winner, but suffered a violent rollover crash in the 1978 Daytona 500, and I don't think Foyt was ever the same after that. In fact, history would tell you that, most of Foyt's bad crashes came in stock cars, including that crash in the '78 Daytona 500. But I certainly agree with you on Dale Earnhardt, Jr., and he's never been the same since that sports car fire at Sonoma in 2004. I believe he may have been on his way to a career that, while not as elite as his father's, certainly one that would have had mulitple championships and twice as many wins by now until that happened, because he was on his way to the championship that year. I feel certain about that. And that fire may also have been the begining of the end of Dale Earnhardt, Inc. And let's not forget that Kyle Busch and Kasey Kahne have alo suffered bad crashes in the last four or five years, Busch at Daytona (a result of blocking Tony Stewart on the last lap, something that's ironic given today's events) and Kahne at Pocono in 2010. In fact, Pocono comes up a lot when it comes to bad crashes. Aside from Bobby Allison, Richard Petty, Kahne, and Elliott Sadler (the latter two while driving for Petty), others who have had terrible crashes there include Dale, Sr., Jeff Gordon, Ken Schrader, Dale Jarrett, Dave Marcis, and Davey Allison. In fact, Davey was never quite the same after his crash there, and neither was Dale Jarrett, who also had a bad crash at what is now Auto Club Speedway in 1998. 440. Paul posted: 03.24.2013 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I want to apologize to anyone that was offended when I made my remarks earlier about fans making comments about Denny Hamlin's injury and him supposedly deserving it, especially to DSFF, who I called out by (nick)name. I had a long day today and didn't get a chance to see a race that a lot of you guys seemed to enjoy, and the first thing I heard when I got home and flipped on the TV was that Denny Hamlin had crashed and was taken to the hospital after he and Logano got together on the last lap. I had a lot of negative emotions running through my head, mostly towards Logano, and took them out on some of you guys a few hours ago. I guess I should have practiced what I preached and did what Kyle Petty did at Daytona '93 by not saying anything that I might regret. So once again, I'd like to apologize for anything I might have said earlier that offended somebody. After five races, it looks like it may be a three horse race prior to the Chase points reset as Dale Earnhardt, Jr., Brad Keselowski, and Jimmie Johnson have each separated themselves from the rest of the field. The only drivers that might catch them regardless of any bad luck that those three may or may not run into over these next 21 races are Kyle Busch and Kasey Kahne. I don't think the Roush Fords of Biffle and Carl are consistent enough to catch up to them (even though they are currently 4th and 5th in points), Paul Menard doesn't have the speed or aggressiveness to gain a full race's worth of points on the top three, Kenseth seems content to just rack up points and qualify for the Chase before he makes any brash moves, and Logano, Hamlin, and Stenhouse seem destined to be Chase field fillers at best. Heck, Stenhouse doesn't even have a top ten finish through five races, and yet he's currently in the Chase as it stands. I'd say Dale Jr. and Brad are my early season favorites at winning the championship. Junior has finished in the top ten in every race so far and was the only HMS car that was even remotely a threat in this race, and Brad had 4 top fives in the first four races and seems to have the most motivation to win this championship yet again. Johnson's team is going to have to pick it up if they want to keep up with Brad and Junior, as the speedway tracks are that team's bread and butter, and they were nothing short of disappointing in this one (as was Gordon, although he managed to finish one spot ahead of JJ in spite of his crew chief's incompetence). Is anyone else hoping for a little "Student vs. Teacher" battle for the championship? Brad got his first competitive full-time ride when he joined Junior's Nationwide team late in the '07 season, and has truly been Junior's star pupil to have come from his Nationwide program. Junior is going to have to win some races this season to keep up with Brad (which he might if the #48 keeps struggling), but that would make for an interesting championship battle for sure. Aside from a "Dale Jr. vs. Jeff Gordon" battle for the championship, this might be the most polarizing championship battle amongst drivers with large, separate fan bases. By that I mean between the two of them, you either love them or you hate them, and pretty much every NASCAR fan will be pulling for one guy or the other. The Junior fans will be pulling for Junior, and the Brad/non-Junior fans will be pulling for Brad. It won't be like 2010 where you were mostly pulling against one or two of the serious title contenders (Johnson, Hamlin, Harvick). Instead, you would be pulling for one of the two drivers, and since a lot of fans that don't pull for Junior also pull for Brad (I can name a few on this board), and all the Junior fans would be pulling for their driver, it would make for a very polarizing championship battle between two drivers with large fan bases. 441. Jim Davis posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Junior has finished in the top ten in every race so far and was the only HMS car that was even remotely a threat in this race..." Kahne was competitive; he and Earnhardt both had an average position of 12. 442. Anonymous posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) In other news, the #17 RV is rocking back and forth with a GoDaddy fire suit hanging from the side view mirror! 443. Ryan posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Where does Tony Stewart get off to talk about someone blocking? He admitted it in victory lane after he blocked Regan Smith at Talladega that he would do it again for the win. He's an @$$hole and would have done the same thing today if roles were reversed. He was just mad he finished where he did. He wants to be remembered so bad as a bad ass on and off the track, but he ISN'T. He is an AJ Foyt/Dale Earnhardt wanna be. He wants to be them so bad he can't stand it. He was a punk like Joey Logano when he got his start AND still is. Logano can race, and he got himself in a good situation I believe with Penske. I'm not so sure if he didn't get what the 18 and 20 got the last few years. I really don't like Hamlin, Logano, KyBusch or Stewart at all, but Tony Stewart has no reason to gripe about anyone. I bet Logano would beat his fat ass in a fight. Tony is a wimp and a wanna be. If you're Logano you can't back down now after not backing down to Hamlin. I gained some respect for him. It will be lost, however, if he backs down to Tony because there is no point in doing it. I hope he puts Stewart's egotistic fat ass in the wall. He thinks he's real tough, but he isn't. He says Logano had a crew guy there, but once Tony went over there he pretended like he was really going to do something and gave a little push and then Logano pushed him back. I didn't see Logano go anywhere! Stewart was lucky Robby Gordon didn't beat his ass back in the garage a few years back. Tony had a crew memeber get in the way for that so he can't say anything at all. And then talk about the silver spoon and he was given the same chance as Logano in Cup with the 20 car. He's a hypocritical piece of shit. That is all. 444. jabber1990 posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) @442, you know i've often wondered if they share a motorcoach on the weekends, and with that do they share a bed as well? I only wonder because well, im kind of strange like that and also, I would assume they'd be in her motorcoach, she probably has a little more money than he does 445. jabber1990 posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) oh, and for the record, im not tryign to sound like TMZ, its just something thats fun to think about *hums the song Weird Al made about TMZ* man....I need to get laid 446. Bronco posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Aside from Hamlin's ugly crash, that was the best side by side racing we've seen anywhere outside Daytona/Talladega. Easily the best race of the season so far. Kyle Busch finally wins this race after leading the most laps in the previous two years. His past two wins have come with Dale Jr finishing 2nd. What a finish fr Dale Jr. Started the race poorly, went from 3rd to 22nd because of a 22 second pit stop, rallied back over the final 20 laps to crack the top 5 and take over the points lead, for the first time since last August after the Pocono race. Him and Steve Letarte just keep getting better every year they're together. Almost hard to believe this is the same driver who suffered a concussion 6 months ago and was considered washed up 3-4 years ago. Stewart has no room to say a word, after wrecking 25 cars at Talladega last year with his little stunt. Logano may be the first driver that I can think of that has been involved in pit road scuffles for two consecutive weeks. Aside from Daytona and Las Vegas, Casey Mears has finished in the top 15 in the other three races. That is very good, considering what that team is. Danica Patrick has qualified 40th or worse in 3/5 races already, that is BAD. 447. Kenny posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) @Ryan Man I'm glade someone on hear thanks that way about Stewart I HATE him I swear today he made me so mad I wanted to jump throu the tv and beat his ass BADDLEY he's pissed me off before but today did it I've never been more mad after a race then I was today I'm still kinda get mad if I thank about it I wish someone magey beet his ass 448. Bronco posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Also, how did the #22 get credited with 3rd? It looked like he crossed the finish line in 6th, after the #16. 449. Schroeder51 posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) #448: I'm pretty sure they reverted back to the moment the caution came out, at which time Logano was running third. 450. Bronco posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @449: I thought when the field gets frozen, you had to maintain your position back to the start/finish line in order to get credited with finishing in your frozen position. 451. Schroeder51 posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:05 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I thought that too, but NASCAR does seem to be selective with enforcing that... 452. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Destroya, we'll never know if Dale was pregnant or not after his 1997 Southern 500 blackout. He said that's the only thing they didn't check him for. Gotta love the days when drivers would have stuff like that happen and immediately joke about it. Like Schrader smiling and joking after his big flip at Dega in '95 with a giant goose egg on his eye, or earlier that year after losing half his thumb. Hell, after Dale's wicked '96 Dega crash, Schrader was one of the cars that hit Dale in the roof. Afterwards, and Dale told the media with a smile, Kenny joked with him that he saw him and aimed for him. That is how I knew Dale was in bad trouble after the '01 Daytona 500. Seeing Schrader's interview and seeing him that straight faced, that serious, and that spooked, I knew it was time to pray simply for survival. I knew right then he'd never race again, I just had to pray he'd pull an Ernie Irvan and make a miraculous recovery (I know Ernie raced again, but Dale was much older). 453. Matt G posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:29 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) @450 It's not so much that you have to maintain your position, it's more that you have to maintain at least caution speed. Logano was 3rd at the moment of caution and although he was not as fast as the other cars after knocking down the wall, he still maintained at least caution speed all the way to the start / finish line so he gets to keep the position he had the moment the yelloe flew. The cars that passed him literally raced all the way to the checkers. I understand that this rule leaves Nascar with a bunch of "grey area" to play with (which I'm not a fan of) but I think today they actually got the call correct. 454. Anonymous posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:37 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) Casey Mears gets his third top 15 of the season. 455. 18fan posted: 03.25.2013 - 2:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A potentially confusing part of the finish is that NASCAR called a caution but never displayed the caution flag, at least they hadn't when Kyle took the checkered flag. 456. 18fan posted: 03.25.2013 - 3:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race was the 5th time, and 3rd in a row, that Kyle Busch led the most laps at Fontana, including both of his wins. The 5 times leading the most laps at Fontana is his most of any track. 457. John Royal posted: 03.25.2013 - 3:24 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Do not blame the Gen6 car for the Hamlin's injury. New car is very safe, not perfect (still missing NHRA Pro Stock rollcage), almost as safe as how you can build these cars. Sure now that Hamlin suffered back injury, we might need to ask is there something that we can do about the seats. But the accident is simple, it was maybe 150 mph directly head on into a concrete wall. Why there was no SAFER, is beyond me. But with such installment I think Hamlin would have walked away to whip Logano's ass. Other contributor to this crash was that these drivers race like monkeys out there. That is completely crazy, has been since NASCAR introduced these three key factors: 1) Safer car and tracks 2) GWC 3) Double file restars The car is great, races great and is pretty safe. SAFER is also great where it has been installed. 458. Mike posted: 03.25.2013 - 5:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOX did at least mention briefly that Keselowski had been told to pick up his speed, which makes me think he probably was having engine issues. 459. cjs3872 posted: 03.25.2013 - 7:24 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Guys, you don't know the half of it about Tony Stewart and blocking. As I've said, he's probably the worst, or biggest blocker I've seen in the nearly 25 years I've been following auto racing. Everyone mentions what he's done at Talladega in recent years and goes back to last year's fall race and the 2008 fall race there. But I go all the way back to the 1997 Indianapolis 500 when he ran eventual winner Arie Luyendyk all the way into the grass on the back straightaway. And those are open wheel cars. But unlike the commentators in NASCAR today, the ABC commentators for that race, particularly Tom Sneva and Danny Sullivan, took him to task. But then in his rookie season in the Cup series in 1999, he did the same thing, running Mike Skinner into the grass at Talladega, causing a wreck that saw Jeff Gordon take a wicked hit from Rusty Wallace, and as I mentioned, he blocked Dale, Sr. in one of the qualifying races, and Dale was none too happy about it. So Tony's been doing this kind of thing for 16 years, yet always complains when people do it to him. And John Royal, the biggest problem as to why the drivers race the way they do now, especally late in the race, has to do with double-file restarts because drivers take more chances than they ever have before. It's always been this way in plate races because they're all over each other for the duraton there, but it's now carried over to the other tracks because of the double-file restarts. Also, the fact that the wave-around, which is a side effect of the double-file restarts, puts more cars back on the lead lap doesn't help matters any, though I think only one lead lap finisher in this race, David Ragan, got a wave-around. Also, the drivers of today don't respect each other. Heck, we even saw Marcos Ambrose throw a block on the back straightaway in the middle of the race. And it you're right about Keselowski having an engine problem late in the race, that should cause even more concern for Ford, because David Ragan may also have had an engine problem late in the race, which would mean that Ford has had five or six engine problems in the last two weekends, including two for the #2 team this weekend. As much as I got on Toyota for their engine problems the first two weekends, they seem to have their engine problems solved. Now it's time for Ford to do the same and get their engine prblems taken care of, because at Bristol, the 17 and 34 cars had engine problems, and at Auto Club Speedway, the 16 and 34 (possibly again) had an engine problem and the #2 had two engines go south on them. Fortnately, they have two weeks before the next race, but this can't be good for the Ford teams going forward. 460. CBASS posted: 03.25.2013 - 9:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well now... here's some sponsor updates #22 Auto Club of Southern California #42 Target/ Cottonelle All I can say is bring on the Paperclip! 461. Jim Fitzgerald posted: 03.25.2013 - 10:21 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) In regards to a nickname for Danica; why do you need one? You could just call her Danica and not be rude. JMO. 462. Richie61NYfan posted: 03.25.2013 - 10:28 am Rate this comment: (4) (2) Tony is complaining that Joey is a spoiled "rich" kid ?? LOL LOL !! How about Princess Lapped A LOT in the NoGoDaddy car. Yes,Tony,money does talk in NASCAR. He gave Danica the best of the best including stripping Ryan Newman of his crew and crew chief.Ryan had to start from scratch and I hope he is the only one to make the chase. Tony has never started this far behind after 5 races and will have to pull off some wins with no bad finishes.He is frustrated right now and I'll bet the Princess is a large part of it. Spoiled rich kid my azz Tony !!!!! 463. Richie61NYfan posted: 03.25.2013 - 10:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #461 , What's so rude about the names that are picked for Danica?? Do you have a name we can add to the list that fits too?? Feel free to add one. 464. Richie61NYfan posted: 03.25.2013 - 10:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco,If you count the 10 races from last year and 5 this year she has qualified 36 {owners provisional} or worse in 11 of 15 races. You just have to give her a break as she is still learning and needs more seat time. Don't worry, she'll have qualifying down pat when they get to Talladega. Just wish there were more than 43 cars entered per race.Tony might still have to buy her way into a race soon. 465. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 11:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF, if you're not doing anything on Saturday, Johanna Long will be participating in a special Easter weekend super late model race down at Hickory Motor Speedway. I'm still confused over why a team would change just two tires on a rough track like Auto Club Speedway, especially after watching the Nationwide race when Brian Scott's team changed no tires and dropped from 1st to 18th in about five laps. The only reason he didn't fall further behind is because there were only 18 cars on the lead lap at the time. Obviously changing two tires is better than changing none as far as tire wear is concerned, but the #24 team had to know that it couldn't possibly be any better than what the #2 Nationwide team did the day before. Bumpy track = rough track = worn tires = change all four tires. Seems pretty elementary to me. Yes track position is important, but did Alan Gustafson learn nothing from the Nationwide race the day before? He's a great engineer who knows how to setup cars and make great adjustments during the race to make the car better (Fall Richmond '12 is a great example.), but he's a horrible race strategist, as seen from yesterday's race. Now he did make the adjustments necessary to help Gordon get to the top ten before the end of the race, but that bad pit call prevented Gordon from possibly contending for a top five at the end of the race because of all those unnecessary positions he had to make up from the two-tire change. Heck, the #88 team had a bad pit stop that sent them from the top ten to the middle of the field, and yet they still recovered for a 2nd place finish, so who's to say the #24 team couldn't have done the same. Again, I didn't see the race yesterday so maybe I'm just assuming something that didn't exist in the race, but just looking at the facts, that's the conclusion I've come up with and it seems pretty reasonable to me. 466. jabber1990 posted: 03.25.2013 - 11:16 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) I was driving in 18 inches of snow and the interstate was covered in ice in Illionis Global Warming 467. cjs3872 posted: 03.25.2013 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Paul, then why are Jeff Gordon's cars so far off this year? Could it be that the new cars have thrown Alan Gustafson for a loop, or has Gordon become so conservative on this style of track due to his crashes since 2006 that it's impossible to tell? Personally, I think it's the former because the cars are handling so poorly. Saying that, the fact that Gordon was one of those that hit the wall when he and otheer got into the oil from Timmy Hill's car was was NOT brought into the pits during that caution to at least check the damage was absolutely dumbfounding. You mention that Dale, Jr. rebounded from his bad pit stop to finish second, while Gordon wet the oher way at the end to finish 11th. I think that says something for the speed in those two cars and the fact that Dale, Jr. has an aggressive mindset, while Gordon just doesn't seem to want to push it on this style of track any more, and I'm surprised someone hasn't publicly called him out on that. And also, I think Tony Stewart has picked the wrong battle this time, because by doing what he did to Joey Logano after the race, he's now going to have Brad Keselowski on his case, and mark my words, Brad's not going to forget what happened, and if Joey's not going to try to get Stewart back, Brad most certainly will because he's not afraid of anyone or anything. Look something to happen between the 2 and 14 before too much longer becuase Brad's not going to let this go without an answer. 468. Anonymous posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @380 Yes, right after the kyle took the win they displayed the Caution Flag. 469. murb posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "And also, I think Tony Stewart has picked the wrong battle this time, because by doing what he did to Joey Logano after the race, he's now going to have Brad Keselowski on his case, and mark my words, Brad's not going to forget what happened" If Logano's teammate was Kevin Harvick (who has a history of trying to fight his teammates' battles), I would agree with you. But we're talking about Brad Keselowski, probably one of the two or three most mentally stable drivers out there. He's too focused on going out and winning another championship to be worrying about a bunch of meaningless drama. Like I said earlier, if Denny and Joey would adopt Brad's mentality, they could become champions. And if Tony would stop going back and forth between psychopath (this race) and absolute legend (2011 Chase), then he would be without a doubt the hardest guy to beat out there. The thing with Brad is that I think he realizes that all of these guys are headcases. So he's doing a smart job of taking advantage of them to go out and win championships. Maybe Brad's nickname should be "The Brain", since he seems to clearly be one of the smartest out there (plus, that was Bobby Heenan's nickname, and who doesn't love Bobby Heenan?). 470. Richie61NYfan posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Joey did not put Denny into the outside wall. The replay is available for all to see. Denny never touched the outside wall but put himself into a spin when he cleared Joey. He then had "power down smoke" rolling off his rear tires as he tried to save it. He never hit the brakes until the front was even with the solid white line. Again, I hope he is ok. Danica has wrecked harder than that even though it was a hard hit. Did it move the steering wheel up? 471. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Well I'm from AWA territory (American Wrestling Association for you non-Midwesterners), so I refer to Bobby Heenan by his nickname while he was in the AWA, which was "The Weasel." What I like most about Heenan is how he conducted business behind the scenes. He was one of the few guys who finished out all of his scheduled dates in the AWA before he jumped ship to the WWE in the mid-'80s, and then did so again in '93 when he jumped ship from WWE to WCW. A lot of other big names from the AWA like Hulk Hogan, Gene Okerlund, and Jesse Ventura jumped ship immediately once they signed a contract with WWE and forced AWA officials to frantically rewrite shows that they were scheduled to be in, but Heenan was a true professional who always finished up his scheduled dates before leaving for the big money. For that reason alone, I have great respect for "The Weasel." 472. cjs3872 posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, it's not the mental stability of Brad I'm talking about, as far as taking it to Tony. Brad just comes off as one of those drivers, like Kevin Harvick, that will defend his teammate. I actally liked what Harvick did a few years ago when he stood up for Clint Bowyer's team at Dover. Denny Hamlin had some unkind things to say about the #33 team and Kevin defended the honor of the #33 team. Not only did I not see anything wrong with that, I liked that because it showed that the Richard Childress Racing teams were unified as one, and if you messed with one of them, you had to deal with the rest of them. And I believe that Dale, Sr. would have done the same thing, though he would probably have gone at it differently. Brad Keselowski has that same mindset. If you mess with one of his teammates, he's going to come after you, especially if that teammate is the one he convinced Penske to hire, because he'll think that's an indirect shot at him. We haven't heard the end of this, and I look for Brad to settle the score with Tony in the next 4-6 races. I think Joey Logano is about to find out what it's like to have a teammate that will actually defend him, because it appears that he never had that at Gibbs. 473. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I actually liked what Harvick did a few years ago when he stood up for Clint Bowyer's team at Dover." I did too. Harvick also stood up for his Busch Series teammate Johnny Sauter at Richmond '03 (the night before his "fight" with Ricky Rudd) after Matt Kenseth took a swipe at Sauter's car on the cool down lap, as he cut Kenseth off and spoke to him about it on pit road. There are some qualities that Kevin Harvick has that I actually do like, and I wish more drivers would defend their teammates like Harvick has over the years. "Brad Keselowski has that same mindset. If you mess with one of his teammates, he's going to come after you," I don't recall Brad standing up for Kurt Busch at Richmond '11 when Jimmie Johnson intentionally wrecked him and the media started hounding him for a comment he made, or at Talladega '12 when Danica intentionally wrecked Sam Hornish, Jr. on the cool down lap, or at Kentucky '12 when it was announced that A.J. Allmendinger was indefinitely suspended and other drivers started making comments about his alleged drug use. In fact, it was Brad who was the most harsh on Dinger afterwards and basically said that anybody who uses any type of drug (legal or illegal) deserves to be suspended. Plus, there was radio chatter last season (I believe during the Coca-Cola 600) where Brad was practically begging crew chief Paul Wolfe to tell the #14 team that he was sorry about accidentally running into him at one point in the race because he didn't want Tony Stewart to retaliate. Unless winning a championship has altered his personality to a point where he's willing to stand up for his teammate, and stand up to Tony Stewart at that, I don't think he'll defend Logano quite the way you think he will. 474. Eric posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, Its nice to hear a nickname from AWA territory since the AWA declared bankruptcy in 1991. I found out about Bobby Heenan being known as the Weasel back in the early 1990's from my Dad. My Dad was a wrestling fan growing with him and watched wrestling in his 20's also. My dad remembered wrestlers like The Crusher, Dick the Bruiser, Nick Bockwinkel, the Vachon's, and Doctor X as examples. 475. murb posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't get me wrong, I thought Harvick's attempts to stand up for his teammates were a great thing too (I'm one of the few people on here who actually likes Harvick, lol). But there's sort of a cost that comes with that, and that's taking your eye off the ball, so to speak. I just don't think that Brad is going to do that because of his insane focus and determination to win another championship (at least it seems that way to me). I could be wrong though. Who knows what is going to happen at Martinsville... 476. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Crusher and Nick Bockwinkel are two of my all-time favorites. Both of them delivered awesome promos and could both wrestle very well. Bockwinkel I would argue was the most talented all-around wrestler from the AWA, as he had the great look, the mic skills, the charisma, the athleticism, and the wrestling ability. Even as the promotion's top heel for most of his tenure, you couldn't help but admire the greatness that bestowed upon him. A lot of people consider Curt Hennig's match against Bret Hart at SummerSlam '91 to be his best match, but I've always considered Hennig's matches against Bockwinkel in the AWA to be his greatest matches simply because Bockwinkel was better than Bret Hart and it was almost like watching a "coming of age" movie once Hennig finally beat Bockwinkel at SuperClash '87 for the AWA World title. And yes, Harvick's antics whether they were good or bad have resulted in him losing sight of the big picture. If he wasn't so focused on being the garage enforcer, he might have still won the 2010 Cup title. Not only did he mess around with Hamlin during practice at Dover and cost his team some valuable track time, but he was also messing around with Kyle Busch, including dumping Kyle on the frontstretch at Homestead. I don't know whether he would have won the title or not had he stayed more focused on the big picture, but it couldn't have hurt to go 10 weeks without causing any controversy. 477. cjs3872 posted: 03.25.2013 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, there's a difference between the other incidents you mention and the off-track incident with A.J. Allmendinger. Allmendinger's incident was self-inficted and Brad was right to cal him out like that. And isn't it strange that Danica and Sam Hornish, Jr. would have a get-together at Talladega after the Nationwide race there last year, and now drivers who are teammates of both get into it at Fontana. And perhaps part of the reason Stewart blew up at Logano so much has to do with a incident that occurred a couple of years ago betwen Logano and another of Stewart's teamates, Ryan Newman, at Michigan. Could there be a possibility that Stewart never really forgot about that, but waited until what he thought was the right time to accost Logano himself. Sometimes drivers wait for years to issue some kind of payback against another driver, but they never forget. And who's to say that Brad hasn't gotten some sort of payback on Jimmie? He raced him much harder than Jimmie raced him during the Chase last year, took constant swings at the #48 team, and took the championship away from them. There are numerous ways to get payback, and what Brad did to Jimmie last year may have been the ultimate kind of payback. As for the thing with Danica and Hornish, Danica is beneath the notice of someone like Keselowski (or any other top runner) until she takes them out on the track. Then a driver of Keselowski's caliber will straighten things out, but not while she's beneath their notice. And last year, Keselowski had no reason to bother with Tony Stewart, as they had no history. Now through what happened at the end of the race at Fontana, Brad may now have a reason to go after Tony, if only in a subtle way. He also had not reached the status that Tony Stewart had as a champion. That also has changed. And while I do expect some kind of retribution from Brad on Logano's behalf, I don't expect it immediately, I do think that Tony will see a lot more of the #2 car than he really wants, because Brad's not going to forget what happened. I think he'll wait to take action, but he'll take action. 478. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.25.2013 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I would love to go to Hickory to see Johanna race and possibly even meet her. Unfortunately I work this weekend (I have to work every other weekend). Oh well, hopefully one day. 479. murb posted: 03.25.2013 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) According to Marty Smith, Denny Hamlin has some compression fractures in his back. He might miss some races and need surgery. I know a lot of people don't like him, but he (nor any driver for that matter) deserve to be injured and put out of action like this. I wish him a speedy recovery. And as I said last night, I hope that both he and Logano (and even Stewart) learn something from this. As for Denny, hopefully this will have a Darrell Waltrip 1983 Daytona 500 type of impact on him, and hopefully he will change for the better. 480. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 03.25.2013 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Feel free to disagree or comment on my opinions of things so far.Tracks that wear and have "character are the key to overcome aero and produce good racing. Fontana has also benefitted from having only 1 race a year like it should always have had this led to a very healthy spectator attendance which should get a jump next year also due to the good race.Pocono and Dover and Talladega could benefit from losing dates also. Here are my thoughts on some of the teams so far, these should be taken with a pinch of salt as last year Edwards and Harvick and Stewart still looked good at this stage. #1 Mcmurray looks so so so far and has merely completed laps so far. #2 Keselowski has been rock solid on all track types and especially on the big downforce tracks only missing a win. The blue deuce is coming to a victory lane near you soon. #5 Kahne Strong start with an all important win . Prospects of another good year in store. #11 Hamlin has ran better than he has scored so far.Hamlin looks the weakest of the gibbs teams.Gibbs seems to be number1 for speed as all 3 teams look strong.Hamlin needs to get his head down and have a few controversy free weeks.Next 3 weeks are key needs a good result at martinsville and needs to perform well at high speed texas to get rid of doubts that the crash has not affected him. #14 Stewart has started really slow and not shown much apart from california, the weight of Danica is slowing the whole organisation down Stewart may go winless for the first time in his career. #15Bowyer has been decent if he had not blown an engine yesterday I would have said good. Mwr seems a half step off from last year. #16Biffle has got of to a solid start in the points which wiil help him to make the chase Texas and Kansas will indicate if he will have a good year. #17 Stenhouse has aquired some solid top15 runs but will need top10s to make the chase quietly good so far. #18 looks to have the most speed out of the gibbs trio and has top5s on both the aero tracks so far which are usually his weakness in terms of consistency problems with chase format still linger. #20 Seems to have benefitted from a change of scenery and a new challenge has 3 top10s a win and was running top5 when issues occurred #22 Logano like his soulmate Hamlin has ran better than he heas finished and also seems to have benefitted from a new team.Penske are the top ford team at the moment. #24 Gordon has got off to a painfully slow start for third year in a row looks like he is for another summer slog to make the chase. #31 washed up #39 will struggle to make the chase will need a win #48 championship material first 4 weeks then a swing and a miss will be interesting to see how he goes at texas and kansas will be fine #88 solid as a rock needs to lead laps and win a race or 2 if he is to challenge for the title.Could be the best bet along with Kyle for the regular season champ. #99 is back as we predicted he would be with Jimmy Fennig.Has a win and top5s on 1.5and 2 mile tracks(always a good sign).How he runs at martinsville and Loudon where he is chronically bad will be key to his championship hopes looks like 1 of 5 or 6 who could win the title will definetely make the chase. Kurt busch can definetely make the chase on points alone top 10 and could turn into defacto team leader at rcr.I want him to mke the chase in that car.Almirola phoenix racing and Menard and Mears are out performing their equipmentand expectations. Almirola is a sleeper pick t make the chase. Jgr seem the equal of hendrick with 3 regular contenders for wins.Hamlin needs to win to keep a focus on him and not let the other 2 become the focus of the organisations efforts.If penske equipment is as good as Ithink it is Logano should make chas on merit by top10 points. Feel free to make any observations that you agree or disagree with.Looing forward to martinsville 481. murb posted: 03.25.2013 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *doesn't deserve 482. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.25.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Man that sucks for Hamlin, I hope and pray he makes a safe and speedy recovery. 483. cjs3872 posted: 03.25.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Especially with his best track, Martinsville, next on the schedule, New14 & 88Fan. And if Denny Hamlin does have to miss any races, any guesses on who might replace him in the #11 car? I know that both Elliott Sadler and Brian Vickers are employed by JGR, but Vickers is already slated to drive the #55 MWR car at Martinsville. Sadler could step in, but would Joe Gibbs really want to detract from his Nationwide Series effort with those two drivers, and if he doesn't go with Sadler, who would he go with? Fortunately, the two series don't split for some time yet, so he could go with one of his Nationwide Series drivers. Meanwhile, as Larry McReynolds has said, cars will seemingly find a place and a way to hit the wall were crashes are inconceiveable. But does the fact that Hamlin's car actualy hit a slight incline before hitting the wall disturb anyone, as does the fact, as others have mentioned, where Hamlin hit has no SAFER barrier? I thought after Jeff Gordon's crash at Las Vegas in 2008 (speaking of rivalry situations gone wrong) that this had been settled about tracks needing the SAFER barriers EVERYWHERE, but apparently not. 484. Bronco posted: 03.25.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Absolutely unacceptable that in this day and age certain tracks still have areas without SAFER barriers. Why does NASCAR need to recommend to the tracks that only certain sections need to be covered in SAFER barriers, rather than applying them everywhere? Between the fine, and the colossal loss of points at both Bristol/Fontana, Hamlin has gotten off to an ugly start. 485. Eric posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't make any observations about Hamlin or any driver right now because it's not known if Hamlin will be racing at Martinsville or how many weeks he will be missing. If Denny misses a good amount of time, this is going to change the chase picture big time. Vickers or Sadler will be the driver in the 11 car if Hamlin is missing any time. I think Vickers would be the better driver to sub for Hamlin. 486. Eric posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) cjs3872, The track President of Auto Club Speedway Gillian Zucker already explained why there wasn't a safer Barrier when Hamlin hit. She said there wasn't a safer barrier because NASCAR didn't recommend putting a safer barrier where Hamlin Hit. She mentioned that while the race tracks pay for the safer barriers, NASCAR makes the recommendation for where to put them. That means this is more on NASCAR for why Auto Club Speedway not having a safer barrier where Hamlin hit than the race track did. 487. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hate that for Denny, hope there is no long lasting effects from this. But I don't like playing the blame game. A bunch of factors collided for this to happen. That's life and that's racing. 488. Eric posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, I am guessing recommends to the tracks that only certain sections need to be covered in safer barriers because of the amount money a track has to spend and also take a look at the people who is in management positions in NASCAR. 489. murb posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And if Denny Hamlin does have to miss any races, any guesses on who might replace him in the #11 car?" For Martinsville, I think a good choice would be Mark Martin. As you said CJS, Vickers will run the 55 at Martinsville, so Mark would be available to do it. Mark obviously isn't really the best short track guy, but I think I'd definitely rather have him in the car instead of Elliott Sadler (mainly because he's MARK FREAKING MARTIN). But if Denny has to miss Texas and some others after that, it will probably be Vickers and/or Sadler in the car. 490. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are my possibilities for who could drive the #11 car if Denny does have to miss races, ranked by their how reasonable the choices are: 1. Elliott Sadler - JGR Nationwide driver with 3 cup wins, including a short track win, and a top ten points finish. Since Martinsville will be a Nationwide off-week, I can see Gibbs having both of his regulars in action, with Vickers driving the #55 MWR car. 2. Michael McDowell - Drove for JGR at Texas '11 when Kyle Busch was suspended, also drove for JGR part-time in the Nationwide Series in '11-'12. 3. Parker Kligerman - Drives for KBM in the Nationwide Series and serves as a Cup test driver for Penske for a few years. Has the most potential of all the drivers on this list. 4. Kenny Wallace - Toyota driver with past Cup experience, and history filling in for injured drivers (Steve Park in '01-'02). Would serve as a knowledgeable veteran driver who can bring the car home in one piece. 5. Darrell Wallace, Jr. - JGR development driver. FedEx would likely jump at the opportunity to sponsor a black driver for a few races. 6. J.J. Yeley - Used to drive for JGR and has a likable personality that sponsors generally lean towards. 7. Brian Scott - Used to drive for JGR and won a race for KBM in 2012. Also, remember that Elliott Sadler (then driving for RCR) was supposed to drive for MWR (Toyota team) while Mark Martin was out of the car until Childress nixed it. This situation would be similar to what almost happened last year. 8. Todd Bodine - Veteran Toyota driver with a lot of Cup experience and a racing mindset not all that unlike Kyle Busch (for better or worse). 9. Joey Coulter - KBM driver. 10. Ryan Truex - Former JGR driver who will be making at least one Cup start this season at Richmond. 11. Drew Herring - JGR development driver. 12. Jason Leffler - Used to drive the #11 FedEx car, and drove for KBM last season. 13. Mike Bliss - Won a Nationwide race for JGR in '04 and drives for a Toyota team. 14. Bobby Labonte - Former JGR driver and champion, and currently drives for Toyota. I doubt JTG Daugherty will allow him to drive somewhere else though. 491. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) And of course, if Hamlin winds up missing multiple races, I would have Brian Vickers ranked at number one on my list. I think he has more left in the tank at the Cup level than Sadler, plus his Nationwide season may already be over after a disappointing start to the season. 492. Joe Fan #87 posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This is a post the Nascar Racing fan page on Facebook Was just on Lionel.com and seen this description: Elliot Sadler will chomp on the competition this season in the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series� piloting the No. 81 Alert� Energy Toyota Camry for Joe Gibbs Racing. Sadler fans do not want to miss this one-of-a-kind Action Racing Collectables die-cast of Sadler's No. 81 Alert� Energy Toyota Camry! Order yours before it's too late! I can't seemm to find that on the site though lol. I'm probably just stupid... 493. cjs3872 posted: 03.25.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Eric, Vickers won't be subbing for Hamlin at Martinsville unless MWR can get Mark Martin to drive the #55 car there, because Vickers is already committed to driving the #55 car there. And besides, does Joe Gibbs really want to take away from his Nationwide drivers chance at a championship if Hamlin's going to be out an extended period of time. Sure Sadler and Vickers (when he's not tied up with the #55 car) would be the logical choice, but what would happen if Gibbs needed someone to sub for Hamlin with the two series split? Another possible choice at Martinsville if Hamlin had to sit that race out would be Timothy Peters, since there would be no manufacturer conflict, and because Peters is usually good there. And Eric, I'm sorry, that's not a good enough excuse for there not to be SAFER barriers everywhere. What would have happened if an IndyCar had hit at that same exact spot last year, or if it happens this year at the IndyCar finale at much higher speeds? Trust me, this situation with Denny Hamlin is not going unnoticed by the IndyCar community since their finale is at the same Auto Club Speedway in several months, and not just because Roger Penske and Chip Ganassi own cars in both series. Did Las Vegas in 2008 teach these track owners nothing? The crash itself may have been because of the feud between Joey Logano and Denny Hamlin, but Hamlin's back injury is on NASCAR. Jeff Gordon, Jeff Burton, and Greg Biffle are considered three of the leaders in the garage area when it comes to situations like this. Burton and Biffle were vehement about the situation at Vegas when Gordon had his crash there and Biffle was upset at the about the crash involing, among others, his then-teammate David Ragan at Watkins Glen (where they're still using guard rails). I don't really think any of those drivers are too happy with NASCAR right now because of the fact there was not a SAFER barrier where Hamlin hit. 494. Jim Davis posted: 03.25.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Here are my possibilities for who could drive the #11 car if Denny does have to miss races, ranked by their how reasonable the choices are:" The most interesting choice, although completely out of the question otherwise, would be to put Johanna Long in the #11. Putting Long and Patrick in equal equipment on a track where neither has raced would generate a lot of interest. Long's infamous pass on Hamlin at Richmond last year and Hamlin's reaction would add a nice touch of irony. We can all dream but I think Long's chances are just a little better than Jennifer Jo Cobb getting a shot in the #11. Long has done nothing to deserve a shot in a first rate cup car even as a substitute and Gibbs would have no reason to tick off Tony Stewart by pulling such an "in your face" stunt like this. But it would be interesting... 495. b4il3y posted: 03.25.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JGR STATEMENT 2: Joe Gibbs Racing (JGR) driver Denny Hamlin suffered a L1 Compression Fracture following an accident on the final lap of Sunday's NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 400 at Auto Club Speedway. Hamlin hopes to be released today to fly to his home in North Carolina where he will be evaluated by Dr. Jerry Petty of Carolina Neurosurgery & Spine Associates later this week.(JGR)(3-25-2013) I'm not a doctor, but I don't think he'll be driving for a while. I do know the L1 is the first bone of the lower back. Guess the speculations on relief drivers now becomes a reality. Not sure if he'll even be able to get in and out of the car to start and be replaced. 496. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) cjs, you make a very good case about Timothy Peters being a good option for JGR. Martinsville is also his home track, so I'm sure there would be a lot of fan support if JGR were to put Peters in the car for one race. And not only does Watkins Glen still have guardrails, but the areas where two big crashes at Watkins Glen have occurred in recent years ('09 with Hornish, Gordon, and Burton, and '11 with Ragan and Reutimann) had guardrails that were sticking out in odd angles. I can't remember if they fixed those two areas or not, but those are two other examples of cars hitting areas that weren't "designed" for cars to hit. In this day and age with the technology and money that these tracks have, as well as the experienced knowledge of what has happened at tracks with unsafe walls, there is no excuse for there not to be SAFER barriers all around every track and to have walls that stick out at an angle to the cars. 497. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I agree, Jim. I even contemplated putting Johanna Long down in a half-joking manner for the reasons you listed. But I wouldn't put her in a top Cup car just yet simply because she doesn't have enough NASCAR experience just yet, and I don't agree with teams that put talented young drivers in great equipment right away. I want to see how she would do in a top Nationwide ride or a smaller Cup ride first before I would give her a JGR Cup ride, even if she did manage to upstage Denny Hamlin at his home track last season. 498. murb posted: 03.25.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Johanna were to get a shot in the 11, I'm pretty sure our server would explode here, lol. It would be THE most fun all of us have ever had on here, lol. Even better than the Bowyer/Gordon thread brawl we had at Phoenix. I would love to see a young driver get a shot in it and make a name for themselves (like what Jamie did when he subbed for Sterling in 2002), but unfortunately I'm about 98% certain that it's just gonna be Sadler and Vickers filling out the schedule. That's a shame, because both of those guys have had their shots in Cup and have blown it for the most part. 499. Richie61NYfan posted: 03.25.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My picks would be Ryan Truex or Kyle Larson if he's available. The kid can drive anything and just has a natural feel for the car as far as set ups etc. 500. Talon64 posted: 03.25.2013 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's probably going to be either Elliott Sadler, Brian Vickers or Mark Martin. JGR's going to want to pick someone with Cup experience, so Sadler would probably be the most likely choice. As far as Vickers and Mark, it'd depend on whether MWR just has Mark drive the #55 anyways if he's willing to be a substitute driver so Vickers can drive the #11. Or keep Vickers in the #55 and then Mark in the #11. 501. Scott B posted: 03.25.2013 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would think if a sub is needed at Martinsville, Sadler (who's also a Virginia native) is the clear #1 candidate. If a longer term sub is needed, it will be an interesting search. I don't really think any of the JGR development drivers are ready to step into the #18 Cup car right now. Just to throw out a couple other names who've been associated with Gibbs in the past, Terry Labonte and David Gilliland each drove a few races for JGR. Longshots, since both are now under contract with non-Toyota teams, but deals can be made. Speaking of longshots, I'll bet Robby Gordon would give Cup one last go, for an opportunity that good. 502. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.25.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Y'all know me, I me some Johanna. But she isn't ready for the #11 car in a Cup race. Yet. 503. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.25.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I *love me some Johanna 504. Bronco posted: 03.25.2013 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Always good to have Dr Jerry Punch on board to explain medical issues. He also did a good job explaining Dale Jr's concusssion and Newman's extraction from his flipped car at Talladega 2009. 505. Anonymous posted: 03.25.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The Cup and Nationwide points are both led by two Juniors who have opened the season with 5 straight top 10s. 506. markmartin5513 posted: 03.25.2013 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) I don't know why tony is upset, if it was another way around, stewart would've done the same thing to Logano, to me Joey Logano did NOTHING wrong, I mean seriously, what is he supposed to do, pull over and let the #14 take the spot, there are 43 drivers out there and there goal is to WIN THE RACE!!, not to let Stewart by. and with Hamlin and Logano, it was NEITHER'S fault (my opineon)it was racing. Joey didn't mean to get into Hamlin, he got loose, and slid up into him and Hamlin wasn't able to even get off of him Remember, This is MY opineon 507. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't think Stewart was mad at Logano just because of the block. I think it was a combination of his horrendous start to the 2013 season, trying the get the #10 car up to speed (Good luck with that.), trying to figure out if he can create a 4th SHR team in order to obtain Kevin Harvick AND keep Ryan Newman, and seeing a punk like Joey Logano not only wreck one of his former team's cars on the last lap, but send Denny Hamlin to the hospital in the process. I think all of these factors led to Stewart blowing up at Joey after the race. I don't think he would have reacted the same way if it was a Busch brother or Dale Earnhardt, Jr. who blocked him on that restart, but since it was Logano who did it, someone who Stewart apparently already had a problem with, he reacted in such a way. Stewart is in no position to get upset at anybody for blocking since he is one of the biggest violators of that move, but I have good reason to believe that it was a culmination of different factors that have been on Stewart's mind as of late, as well as his apparent disliking of Logano, that made him react the way that he did. And I think that the fact that Logano wound up wrecking Stewart's former teammate and sending him to the hospital set Stewart off over the edge. Anybody else, and Stewart is just upset, but he took extreme exception to the fact that it was Logano who blocked him, and that's why he reacted that way. 508. Paul posted: 03.25.2013 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Apparently there were a ton of reporters waiting outside Denny Hamlin's hospital room waiting for clearance to speak to him. Reports say that he was in a back brace and had difficulty breathing the entire time. Yeah, that sounds like the perfect time to conduct an interview with him. Couldn't they have just waited a couple weeks after he was able to stand up properly like they did with Michael Annett? Good grief. 509. Anonymous posted: 03.25.2013 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) If Hamlin misses races (and I doubt that he would - at the least he would run until the first caution), they should go with Darrell Wallace. Of course, they can't even manage to get him into Nationwide because they have to run two Cup has-beens full-time, so who knows if they even care about their strong younger drivers? 510. Paul posted: 03.26.2013 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Putting one of their development drivers like Darrell Wallace, Jr. or Drew Herring into the #11 Cup car would be like throwing them to the wolves. They're not ready for the big spotlight that would be placed upon them by being in one of the best cars in the Sprint Cup Series, and are almost certain to fail and have their NASCAR stock drop as a result. It's better to put a proven Cup veteran in their car like Sadler, Vickers, or even Kenny Wallace, because those guys know what it's like to drive for some of the best Cup teams, and would know how to bring the car home in one peace with a decent finish without letting the pressure of being in a JGR Cup car get to them. If this was a Nationwide driver that got hurt, I wouldn't have a problem with JGR putting one of its development drivers behind the wheel. But the competition level between Cup and Nationwide is big, and putting someone who has never driven a Cup car before, or even have that many total NASCAR starts to begin with, would almost certainly have a bad result. 511. cjs3872 posted: 03.26.2013 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's just it Paul. Stewart has such a high regard for Joe Gibbs Racing, where he raced for 12 years, including two before racing in the Cup Series, and Logano seems to have such a low regard for Joe Gibbs Racing may have been what set Tony off. But Tony has no right to gripe about anyone blocking, since he's been the most vicious blocker in racing for a generation. And his biggest block may not have even been in a NASCAR race, but rather in the 1997 Indianapolis 500, when he ran Arie Luyendyk into the grass. Then when he entered the Cup Series in 1999, one of his first acts was to throw a serious block on Dale, Sr. in a qualifying race, never a good idea, and Dale rightfully called him out for it. But apparently he didn't learn his lesson since he did exactly the same thing at Talladega that spring, running Dale, Sr.'s teammate Mike Skinner into the grass, igniting a wreck in which Jeff Gordon took a wicked hit from Rusty Wallace. And he's continued being the most vicious blocker in the sport in the nearly 15 years that have passed. If it was someone like Mark Martin or Jeff Burton that made a statement like that, it would have more weight, but not Stewart, the most vicious blocker in my years watching the sport (yes, even worse than Dale, Sr. in my view). And let's not forget that Stewart hasn't entirely forgotten that litle episode that Logano had with Ryan Newman a few years ago at Michigan when he wrecked him and then complained about how hard Newman always raced (and he's far from the only one that's had that complaint about Newman over the years), so Stewart's always had this animosity with Logano over that incident. And as for potential replacements for Hamlin, I thik it would boil down to Elliott Sadler, Brian Vickers (when he's not racing the #55), and Timothy Peters, especially this week at Martinsville. Another possibility might be Johnny Sauter, who's also now in the Toyota fold. Kenny Wallace would make no sense, because they would want a competitive driver in that car. That's why Michael McDowell would also be a no-go. Gibbs would want a competitve driver in that car if Hamlin has to sit out, and the only options in the Toyota camp would be Sadler, Vickers (which is a non-option at Martinsville, since he'll be in the #55 car), and Peters or Sauter for Martinsville. But the list of possible replacements within the Toyota camp is very short. 512. Paul posted: 03.26.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Kenny Wallace has a lot of Cup experience, not to mention some good numbers at Martinsville. Along with Talladega, Martinsville was Kenny's best Cup track with 6 top ten finishes. Yeah, obviously he wouldn't be as competitive as some of the other choices, but if Gibbs wanted a driver with a relationship with Toyota, a likable personality that would represent his sponsors well, has past Cup experience, and wasn't weighted down by any other racing series (like his two Nationwide drivers), Kenny makes a lot of sense to me. Peters and Sauter would be more competitive, but I disagree with your statement that putting Kenny Wallace in that car would make no sense, especially since he wouldn't be taking his attention away from another NASCAR series. I think Ryan Newman gets a bad reputation as far as being as driver who's hard to pass. Most of the drivers who complain about his hard racing style are those who don't like being raced hard themselves. Even Tony Stewart, who hired Newman back in '09, has complained about Newman's driving style, most notably at Loudon '06 when Newman was a lap down and wouldn't roll over for Stewart. Of course, I think that's one of the reasons why Stewart hired Newman when he joined forces with Gene Haas and Rick Hendrick and became a co-owner of SHR, because Newman has a similar racing mindset as Stewart (although he doesn't complain as much as Stewart does). Heck, if it wasn't for Newman's incredible bump drafting, Stewart wouldn't have lead the field to the white flag and had a chance to throw away a sure win in the 2008 Daytona 500. 513. AveryNH posted: 03.26.2013 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) As someone who's suffered a compression fracture to the lower spine let me say, Its no fun at all. I truly wish Hamlin a speedy recovery. As for if he'll need a replacement. I say give it a week. I sincerly doubt Mark Martin will get talked out of an off weekend of his to go drive at a track he absolutely despises. I don't see any issue with putting Sadler In the car for the short term. Granted this is all a what if. A second medical opinion and a week and a half of healing may be enough for Hamlin to gut out another hearty performance like when he drove with his torn ACL at Phoenix back in 2010 I believe. Larry Mac brought this up earlier on race hub. The worst thing about a driver playing hurt is the threat of the next big hit. Personally Id sit denny out for a month as this certainly seems debilitating. My injury occured long before i could drive, but I can tell you sitting upright for a prolonged time does make it ache a lot. If he does tough it out, well grab all the ice you can get Gibbs. Personally Id Let him recover a bit and start his rehab. Gibbs has enough ties to find a good replacement for the time being while still staying competitive. Just my two cents 514. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.26.2013 - 2:20 am Rate this comment: (2) (4) I think you guys may be overthinking it a bit. Tony is just an asshole. And this year he is a frustrated asshole. He was 4th on that restart and finished 22nd. Did one block do that? Of course not. 515. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.26.2013 - 7:29 am Rate this comment: (8) (0) It's amazing how far we've come when you consider that NASCAR hasn't lost a driver in the top-3 series since Dale Sr... You have to give NASCAR credit. With the Gen-4 car we probably would have lost Mark at Michigan last year and we definitely would have lost Hamlin. I think overall the cost to the overall competition level is worth the driver safety. I will gladly take a parade (which none of the races except Daytona and Phoenix have been) if it means we get to talk about these guys for 20 years instead of 8 or 9. 516. David posted: 03.26.2013 - 8:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Absolutely, NRF. 517. Smiff_2 posted: 03.26.2013 - 10:26 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) CJS, your memory of that incident at Talladega in '99 seems to be a bit foggy...lol It was *Skinner* who forced *Stewart* into the grass. Your point about Tony being a known-blocker still stands, I just thought I'd clear that up for ya. 518. cjs3872 posted: 03.26.2013 - 10:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry about that, Smiff_2. I had thought it was Tony that put Skinner into the grass, not the other way around. But remember that was 14 years ago. 519. Frank posted: 03.26.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) About blocking I think it's good that F1 & IndyCar have policy against it because in open-wheel car the blocked driver has no chance to answer - he would be crashed too or break his front wing. In stock car blocking is totally ok because the one who was blocked could bump-n-bass the blocker. No blocking policy is a rare thing where NASCAR judgement is better than in my favorite V8 Supercars where every bumper-to-bumper contact will be punished and blocking is monitoring too. 520. Cant Stand Logano posted: 03.26.2013 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (4) (5) should it surprise anyone that the same guy that bumped the man, who is the cleanest driver in NASCAR history and promoted Logano's career more than anyone else, for a win last year would also put his rival in the hospital? The Loganos, Joey and Tom, have proved time after time they are the biggest pieces of shit in NASCAR. 521. 83andJoe posted: 03.26.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) ^ How about you back off and stop accusing people of deliberately trying to injure other drivers. 522. 83andJoe posted: 03.26.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the subject of relief drivers for Hamilin, Ryan Truex might make a very interesting choice - he has ties to Gibbs and has already arranged to run at least two Cup races this year (for Phoenix Racing at Richmond and Dover) so he's "ready". 523. New14 & 88Fan posted: 03.26.2013 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Listening to Denny describe how he's had trouble breathing unless he's completely straight(not bent over like say sitting in a race car) and the pain and in other problems connected to his injuries I can't see him going to Martinsville in two weeks even if it would be just to start the car and then give it over to a relief driver. He drove with a torn ACL in 2010 but this is much more serious. Just climbing in and out of the car is gonna be hard for him. Regardless of what transpires I sincerely pray he makes a full recovery. 524. Anonymous posted: 03.26.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) they did NOT have to freeze the field because kurt busch would of had a 3rd place finish f u nascar 525. Kyle L posted: 03.26.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So hit another driver and F-bomb the fans Tony and there will be no penalty; but don't talk bad about the car or you get fined 25K (Hamlin). 526. Cant Stand Logano posted: 03.26.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^ How about you back off and stop accusing people of deliberately trying to injure other drivers." I apologize, I did not mean that Logano was trying to cause injury to Hamlin. I'm sure he did not want Denny to get hurt. Just saying he wrecked him at a high speed track and put Denny at risk. 527. I love Japan posted: 03.26.2013 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This is going to sound lame but shouldn't Mark MARTIN love MARTIN's Ville ;D. He should be Denny's fill-in imo. 528. JG24FanForever posted: 03.26.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Listened to the entire race on MRN,in the dark,away from civilization. Great race! I couldn't believe Kyle won,and from the outside lane! Jeff Gordon beat Jimmie Johnson. That is enough for me. Bobby Allison was a guest on MRN,and was talking about how abrasive tracks like California were the type of tracks he excelled at. 529. Talon64 posted: 03.26.2013 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Apparently there were a ton of reporters waiting outside Denny Hamlin's hospital room waiting for clearance to speak to him. Reports say that he was in a back brace and had difficulty breathing the entire time. Yeah, that sounds like the perfect time to conduct an interview with him. Couldn't they have just waited a couple weeks after he was able to stand up properly like they did with Michael Annett? Good grief." This is from Jeff Gluck on Twitter yesterday: "Worth noting @dennyhamlin sent word before being released that he wanted to do interview and was appreciative we had stayed to check on him." Which pretty much puts that to bed. 530. JG24FanForever posted: 03.26.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Numbers about nothing: Gordon's 600th career race where he was running at the finish. Gordon's 433rd career Top 11 finish. Gordon's 177th career win over Jimmie Johnson. Kyle Busch's 25th career win and 34th career race where he led the most. 531. joey2448 posted: 03.26.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well news just broke that Denny Hamlin will be missing about six weeks to heal his back. Even with the upcoming off-weekend, that still means Hamlin will probably miss M'ville, Texas, Kansas, Richmond and Dega, so perhaps the next time we will be seeing Denny in a Sprint Cup car could be Darlington! Of course, the debate now will be whether or not Hamlin can still make the Chase with races missed. If he can pull off a couple wins (and stay in the top-20 in points) he could do it. He would need a Keselowski-summer-of-2011 type run. 532. Dave #38Fan posted: 03.26.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm sure Gibbs will put one of their recycled never-was drivers Vickers and Sadler in the #11 cup car, instead of their development driver (and good friend of Hamlin) Drew Herring. Herring has tested cup cars for JGR before, and had a top ten in a KBM truck and a top five in a Gibbs Nationwide car in his 2 starts last year. He deserves a shot more than Sadler or Vickers. 533. Paul posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to see any driver get hurt to the point where they have to miss some races, especially one who had a realistic shot at the championship if everything went their way this season. Hopefully Denny will be back on the track before too long and isn't permanently affected by what sounds like a very painful injury. Don't expect him to make the Chase this year, because missing five races at the Cup level without a win and only one top ten finish before his injury, not to mention possible effects after returning from said injury, most likely will not be recoverable over the next 21 races. This will also break Hamlin's 264 consecutive starts streak, which began along with his Cup career late in the 2005 season. He is currently ranked 13th on the active consecutive starts list, and is ranked 4th among drivers with active consecutive starts streaks whose streaks began at the start of their Cup careers (behind only Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, and Kasey Kahne). Speaking of friends of Denny Hamlin's, I should also mention Jason White as a driver who could possibly fill-in for Hamlin in the #11 car. Like Hamlin, White is a Virginia native, the site of the Martinsville race. He also has over a decade's worth or experience at the NASCAR level, primarily for small teams in the Nationwide and Truck Series, and also has two career Cup starts, both while driving for FAS Lane Racing. This would give White his first real shot in competitive equipment and in his home state, and I'll bet that Hamlin would love to see his good friend get to drive his car in his home state while he's on the sidelines. 534. JG24FanForever posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) More useless but interesting stats: A)David Pearson: Running at the finish in 370 races. Win% while running at the finish is .283% Top 5% while running at the finish is .813%! Top 10% while running at the finish is .989%! B)Jeff Gordon: Running at the finish in 600 races. Win% while running at the finish is .145% Top 5% while running at the finish is .496% Top 10% while running at the finish is .691% C)Richard Petty: Running at the finish in 835 races. Win% while running at the finish is .239% Top 5% while running at the finish is .664% Top 10% while running at the finish is .852% D)Curtis Turner(Convertible version): Running at the finish in 52 races. Win% while running at the finish is .730%!! Top 5% while running at the finish is .961%! Top 10% while running at the finish is 1.019%!!! haha! (53 in 52 races) E)Curtis Turner(Grand National version): Running at the finish in 73 races. Win% while running at the finish is .232% Top 5% while running at the finish is .739% Top 10% while running at the finish is 1.00% (100%) F)Big E(Dale Earnhardt): Running at the finish in 581 races. Win% while running at the finish is .130% Top 5% while running at the finish is .483% Top 10% while running at the finish is .736% Good Night. 535. Paul posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I love me some Curtis Turner. It's a shame that he didn't compete in a lot of races in his 17-year Grand National career (only twice did he compete in at least 50% of the races in a season), because he could have had a lot more than 17 wins to his name had he been more of a series regular like Lee Petty, Herb Thomas, and Tim Flock were in his era. Also, in the 370 races that he was running at the finish, David Pearson finished outside the top 20 only FIVE times. I get that there were a lot of equipment failures in those days, but that's a pretty amazing stat. He also had 5 top five finishes in races where he DNF'd, which is that same number of times he finished a race outside the top 20. But I've got to tip my hat to Earnhardt and Gordon on this one. They drove most of their careers in far more competitive eras than the others on that list, and had a three year period in which they were driving while hurt, and yet they each have finished in the top ten in races they finished at least 69% of the time. Plus, they spent most of their careers driving cars that were not the best in the sport. Earnhardt only had the best cars in '87, '90, and '94 (after Ernie got hurt), and Gordon only had the best cars in '95-'96, '01, and '07. (I still believe that Jarrett and Mark had better cars in '97 and '98, respectively, and Gordon just flat out out-drove them.) 536. Paul posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and I think Gordon's cars were the best in the whole sport in '03 (although not as obvious as other seasons), but often gets overlooked by his horrendous inconsistency, Newman's many fuel mileage wins, and Kenseth's inability to finish outside the top ten. 537. JRacingFast posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Hamlin manages to stay in the top 20......win some races and win the chase can you guys imagine the outrage that would come from it? I for one would be pretty pissed off 538. David posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish Hamlin a speedy recovery. This is really a tough break for him and his team. This reminds me of Darrell Waltrip's 1990 Pepsi 400 practice crash, in which he was hit in the door by Dave Marcis doing 170 mph. Except in Waltrip's case, he foolishly tried to return at Pocono by running one lap and then turning the car over to Jimmy Horton. It didn't end well. On a completely unrelated note, Sean Wrona wrote a free article for Motorsports Analytics, entitled "Measuring Raw Pace in NASCAR". It's a good read. 539. Eric posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Outside of Talladega, I don't see the 11 car being a threat for a win in the cup series before Hamlin comes back at Darlington. Vickers is bad at Texas, Kansas, and Richmond for the cup series. Hamlin not being the car opens Richmond and Martinsville. I did not mention Texas because Hamlin hasn't had a top 10 there in his last 4 starts there despite having 2 career cup wins there. Hamlin usually doesn't do well at Kansas unlike Kenseth. The fact is Hamlin and Johnson are the top 2 drivers at Martinsville since the start of the 2008 season. If Johnson doesn't start up front, Martinsville is wide open. Kenseth isn't in Hamlin's league at Martinsville or Richmond. Hamlin only has 2 wins at Richmond, but lead 1,390 laps there. Without Hamlin, this could turn into a track that is less dominating by Gibbs since Gibbs won 6 of the last 8 races at Richmond. Hamlin actually leads more laps at Richmond than Kyle goes in his cup career despite the fact Kyle has 4 cup wins at Richmond compare to Denny's 2 at Richmond. 540. JG24FanForever posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Pearson had 4 3rd place runs in which he didn't finish! 541. Kenny posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I cant beleave there not penolizing Tony but they did that to Jr back at Talladega in the fall of 2004 when he said shit(and it was a slip of the toung)and stawert goes off on a swearoing raid and nothing man f**k this this is bulshit man I hate Tony f**king stawert and if you guys dont beleave me just ask DSFF 542. Eric posted: 03.26.2013 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know if Hamlin is doing to be the driver once he comes back and it would be a shame. The fact is Hamlin was on his way of a NASCAR Hall of Fame career before his injury. Drivers that had serious injuries haven't been the same driver again such such as Jeff Gordon, Ernie Ivan, Steve Park,Dale Earnhardt Jr. and SR, Richard Petty, and Darrell Waltrip in terms of the Modern era as examples of drivers that haven't been the driver after a serious injury. Right now I hope Denny recovers. I know how back problems are based on my Mom and my back once in a while acts up. 543. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I too have had back problems over the last few years, due in part to my years of playing football from 3rd grade to 12th grade, mostly on the offensive line. I can tell you that once you hurt your back the first time, it's very easy to feel pain again if you bend over the wrong way or lift a heavy object with the incorrect body form and posture. I can't recall having pain in my back while driving a car, but then again mine doesn't exactly go as fast as the ones that Denny is used to driving, nor is it as bumpy of a ride due to the lower speeds. If I were Denny, I would take extra precautions with this type of injury, because this is one injury that may not completely heal over time or through a surgery. He should learn something from what Jeff Gordon went through in '08 and again in '09 and not take any unnecessary risks as far as getting back into the car too quickly. His season is likely over at this point, so hopefully he doesn't feel the need to jump back into a race car too quickly. Us wrestling fans remember when Shawn Michaels suffered his serious back injury during a match in early '98, and after he dropped the World title two months later, he didn't wrestle again for four years. Once he returned in August '02, it was almost like he never left because his body was given time to recover, and while he wasn't quite the same after his injury, he was still able to perform at a high level night in and night out, just like he used to. Now obviously I'm not saying that Hamlin has to sit out for four years from this injury, especially since NASCAR isn't nearly as physical on the body as wrestling is, but if he takes his time in his recovery and doesn't rush coming back too soon, he should be at near 100% by the time he returns to the race car. Also, if I were Gibbs, I would keep a relief driver on hand for every race after Denny returns to the car just in case he feels any serious pain from sitting down for hours at a time at high speeds and bumpy turns (and in the case of Fontana, bumpy straightaways). Kenny Wallace would be a perfect relief driver because he has a lot of experience and they wouldn't have to fly him in or keep him at the race track for an extra day or something since he'll be there every weekend for SPEED anyways. 544. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I understand you guys who are saying that JGR should give a young guy a shot in the 11, but guys like Darrell Wallace Jr and Drew Herring (who have only had a handful of NNS races) just aren't ready to step into a car like that. If we're talking about young guys to give it to, Paul brings up a great one in Jason White. I think he would be great, especially at short tracks like Martinsville and Richmond (both races that Denny will probably miss). But unfortunately, Jason White probably won't happen. I think it's gonna be Sadler driving it the majority of the races, with Vickers possibly stepping in if Sadler does poorly. 545. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Hamlin manages to stay in the top 20......win some races and win the chase can you guys imagine the outrage that would come from it?" As much as that would be a travesty, it would rub it in NASCAR's faces that the Chase is illegitimate and ridiculous. "Running at the finish in 370 races. Win% while running at the finish is .283%" 0.283% of 370 is 1.0471. Are you trying to tell me that Pearson won 104 races with DNFs? 546. JG24FanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "0.283% of 370 is 1.0471. Are you trying to tell me that Pearson won 104 races with DNFs?" 105/370 = .283% or 28.3 percent. 547. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was joking, JG24, but the % sign means percent, so technically, you would write it as 28.3%. 548. JG24FanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I was joking, JG24" I'm half blonde:) 549. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I'm half blonde:)" And apparently half Southerner too. *Rimshot* 550. JG24FanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "And apparently half Southerner too. *Rimshot*" All Southerner;) I do believe i'm the only South Carolina representative on here, right? DSFF has Bowman Gray Stadium,I have Greenville-Pickens Speedway. 551. I love Japan posted: 03.27.2013 - 1:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I heard "blonde" lol. Gotta love blonde gals. And nice to see some wrestling fans here too :D. I Hope Denny is going to be fine. It would be a shame if he never performed as well. 552. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 5:41 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I gotta say, the racing at Bowman Gray hasn't been very good for a few years now. The best part about Bowman Gray nowadays is people watching. I don't have any back problems..... yet. A few more years in EMS and I almost certainly will. All the lifting we do is hell on the back. Especially for somebody tall and skinny like me. I would also like to sat a few things about those who have trashed Joey over this. I think we have proven Tony's hypocrisy in this manner beyond the shadow of a doubt. But it is also worth mentioning Kurt got his shots in, and as usual for him they involved him taking personal digs, calling Joey a "trust fund racer". That is just Kurt being Kurt, and a big reason no big sponsor will ouch him, and would rather be represented by less accomplished racers.... like Joey Logano. Perhaps most appallingly though was Kurt's girlfriend. She admitted in the past she knew nothing about racing before she met Kurt, and it shows. She said something to the effect of "I'm glad nobody else was hurt as a result of Joey's actions". Where do I even start with this one? If Kurt's better half (it would be impossible for him to have a worse half) has an HOUR to spare at some point, I suggest she go on YouTube and type in the search box "Kurt Busch: Rageaholic". Observe his pit road antics at Martinsville '03, Dover '07, and Darlington last year. Those are the actions that will get people hurt. Moron. 553. Hank posted: 03.27.2013 - 7:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great race fellas! 22 came out on top as the 11 car was attempting to wreck the 22 car which he does wreck the 22 but causes his own car to go strait into the wall. Out for 5 race weekends! Regan Smith will be driving the 11, or maybe Elliot Sadler? The wreck was both their faults. Nut said.... 554. Smiff_2 posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:04 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) Here's a radically unlikely (alright, so it's not gonna happen...lol)scenario for the #11 car (that nobody's dreamed up yet): Ward Burton I know, I know....he's barely raced over the last few years. So what? He's a Virginia native, he'd be MORE than competent, he's practically BELOVED by the fanbase, and he has no aspirations of racing long-term again. It would be perfect! Granted, I'm sure he's awfully busy with his hunting and conservationism and stuff, but still....could you imagine? How cool would it be to see ol' Ward back on track, and in a supreme car like the 11? Pretty f***ing awesome, if you ask me :) 555. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:18 am Rate this comment: (5) (0) Smiff, it will never happen. But damn it is fun to imagine. Especially letting Virginia's favorite son race at Martinsville and Richmond. Ward rules. Anyone who disagrees is wrong. 556. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Regan Smith will be driving the 11" Actually, I don't believe anyone's mentioned him as a candidate yet. He is driving the #51 at Martinsville, though. 557. Smiff_2 posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although he'd do an excellent job, I doubt Smith will be an option when taking into account his JRM/Hendrick ties. At the very least, I'm *sure* that whoever they pick will have some sort of ties to Toyota, whether it be through a current OR a previous ride. However, like most everyone else has said, the two obvious (and likely) candidates are Vickers and Sadler. That being said, with Vickers already booked for Martisville, they're better off going with Sadler, simply from a conituity standpoint. I really can't see them employing a rotating roster of drivers on (arguably) their best overall team. 558. Eric posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JRacingFast, Denny isn't going to stay in the top 20 in points by missing 5 straight races. The best he could do before the chase is finishing 19th or 20 in points and that is a long shot even if Hamlin wins 2 races from Darlington to 2nd race of Richmond. I think Hamlin would be in the 30's in points when he comes back at Darlington. The other problem is one one knows if Hamlin will be the same driver on the race track because drivers are known to be the same on the track after a serious wreck or a series of serious wrecks. The other problem is no one know how healthy his back is going to be after missing 5 races. 559. The Final Gear posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The funny thing about the Hamlin injury is that he could miss all these races and still be ahead of Danica in points when he comes back. I'd also like to discuss a driver who might see some races in the #11 in the near future that has proven before that he can run up from in the right equipment...AJ Allmendinger. I have no doubt they put Sadler in the 11 for Martinsville but AJ could be a very good fallback option. He has proven that he can give results when needed. I know he's off limits during the month of May but for that stretch (Texas-Kansas-Richmond), I don't know if there is a better driver out there. 560. Anonymous posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:53 am Rate this comment: (2) (4) Well, there should be a lot less whining for the next 6 weeks at least. 561. cjs3872 posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hank (#553), there's a problem with your Regan Smith theory, which I mentioned in another post, which is the fact that Regan drives a Chevrolet in the Nationwide Series. Toyota is not likely going to allow Joe Gibbs Racing to put a non-Toyota driver in that car, which would eliminate guys like Smith, A.,J. Allmendinger, Trevor Bayne, and others who don't drive Toyotas from consideration. That's why the four names that instantly came up for me were the two other drivers that curently drive for Gibbs, Elliott Sadler and Brian Vickers, who's unavailable for the Martinsville race and possibly others due to his commitment to the #55 car, as well as Timothy Peters and Johnny Sauter, who also drive Toyotas in the Truck Series. And I consider Peters a candidate for Martinsville only, while Sauter might be a candidate when either the Truck Series is off or partnered with the Cup Series, as will be the case at Martinsville. Michael McDowell might be on that list, except for the fact that he's not competitive, a fact that was proven at Texas in 2011 when he drove the #18 car, and Kenny Wallace can't be seriously considered because he's also uncompetitive. And as for when Hamlin might return, I would say the best time to bring him back isn't until mid-June (about 11 weeks from now) because that's when the series begins running a series of tracks that wouldn't be physically difficult on him, such as Pocono and Michigan. If we're going on the theory that he won't be back until after Darlington, then bringing him back for Charlotte wouldn't be a good idea, because there's as very good chance of him re-aggravating the injury in the All-Star Race, and the races the two weeks after that, the Coca-Cola 600 and Dover (where he's terrible, anyway) are just too physically demanding, so there's a chance that we might not see Hamlin back until Pocono in mid-June. The high probability for reinjury is also why I wouldn't bring him back for Talladega at the beginning of May. 562. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I say sit him out for six weeks, and if he's capable of sitting in a car for a short period of time without any serious pain or discomfort, put him in the car for the Coca-Cola 600 until the first caution, and have a relief driver fill-in for him. If he's still feeling pain or discomfort in his lower back by that race, then don't risk it. But if he's capable of doing so for a short period of time without the risk of injury, I might have him at least start the race and pick up some points (if he still has a shot at the top 20), because with this points system, you never know when you're out of the mix. Jeff Gordon was outside the top 20 halfway through last season and he almost ended the season with a top five points finish. Again, I would only do that if he has a realistic shot at the Chase. If he's outside the top 30 six weeks from now, then I wouldn't even bother using a relief driver, and would instead have someone run the full race in Denny's absence. 563. cjs3872 posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (6) (0) And by the way, speaking of potential replacements for Denny Hamlin, here's one that I don't think anyone else has mentioned that even I completely forgot about that would fit the Toyota crteria. Joe Nemechek. Nemechek drives a self-owned Toyota in both the Nationwide and Cup Series and has proven to be somewhat competitive at times in the Nationwide Series with virtually nothing. And Nemechek would give Gibbs an experienced hand while Hamlin's recovering, while going to some of his better tracks in days gone by. In fact, he has wins at both Kansas and Richmond on his record, so if he's winning and asked, I don't really think Joe Nemechek would be a bad driver to have fill in for Hamlin in the #11 car. Another poster has mentioned Robby Gordon as a driver he'd like to see in a competitive ride one more time. Then why not Joe Nemechek? And who knows, if Nemechek gets the call and performs well, that might propel his team to better sponsorship and a possible alliance with Joe Gibbs Racing similar to the one that currently exists between Furniture Row Racing and Richard Childress Racing that's bringing Kurt Busch back to relevance this year. 564. cjs3872 posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I don't like that idea because you're basically saying you're not going to seriously compete in one of the biggest races of the year. I think the teams today know that if they want to seriously compete today, they have to plan to go with one driver for the entire distance. But if they plan to start one driver and then go with another after the first caution, that tells me that they're content with running 30th (or worse) the entire race, because that's exactly what will happen. Regardless of the event, a team has to stick with one driver for the duration, unless he gets sick or exhausted duing the event, but you can't plan on starting one driver only to get the points, and then stick another driver in early in the race, because the relief driver will never be competitive. 565. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm in favor of any method that would put Joe Nemechek back in competitive equipment again. Don't forget that he's also the driver who beat Bobby Labonte (a former JGR driver) by 3 points for the Busch Series championship way back in '92, when both were driving family-owned equipment. Plus, Nemechek had an average finish of 10.5 at Richmond in the Nationwide Series last season, including an 8th in the fall race. I would love to see him get one last shot in competitive equipment, and hopefully it would benefit his team as well through a JGR/Toyota alliance. 566. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm in favor of any method that would put Joe Nemechek back in competitive equipment again." Heck yeah! But we can dream on. "I think the teams today know that if they want to seriously compete today, they have to plan to go with one driver for the entire distance. But if they plan to start one driver and then go with another after the first caution, that tells me that they're content with running 30th (or worse) the entire race, because that's exactly what will happen. Regardless of the event, a team has to stick with one driver for the duration, unless he gets sick or exhausted duing the event, but you can't plan on starting one driver only to get the points, and then stick another driver in early in the race, because the relief driver will never be competitive." When Darrell Waltrip was hurt at Daytona in 1990, he attempted to start the race at Pocono. NASCAR told him to stay out of the way and ride around at the back, then pit after he had taken his lap. Waltrip thought it would be a good idea to wait until the first caution, then pit, so he would not lose a lap. Unfortunately, he got carried away with himself and started passing cars. When the caution came out on lap 6, and Waltrip pitted, NASCAR held the car in the box for two laps, because Waltrip had ignored their directive. Jimmy Horton took over and finished 20th, three laps down. 567. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.27.2013 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, what works in favor of your Nemechek theory is that he has maintained the same level of competition since he started. What works against your theory is his age. 568. Eric posted: 03.27.2013 - 1:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nemechek is a good pick even at his age as a replacement driver for Hamlin. I am with cjs3872 about not having Hamlin race at Talladega in May. From a Cup and Nationwide level,Talladega and Daytona is too dangerous for a driver to come back from a back injury. Starting 2012 Nationwide spring race at Talladega Eric Mcclure, there has been 3 cup and Nationwide drivers missing races due to crashes at Talladega and Daytona. 569. Eric posted: 03.27.2013 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, Joe is old as a driver, but I think he still can be competitive at some tracks including plate races. Joe has been competitive at place races in the Nationwide series. 570. cjs3872 posted: 03.27.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, the three laps down part is the thing about having a relief driver in the car, because he would never be competitive, especially today. Remember that in 1990, there were not that many good cars, so finishing 20th then would be like finishing 28th-33rd today, and you'd probably be lapped more than once because you're not competitive, which is why I say that you have to plan to have one driver run the entire race, and the teams know it. And NicoRosbergFan, I don't think Nemechek's age would prevent him from being asked to drive the car. There might be other factors, but I don't tihnk his age would be one of them. In fact, I think a team owner in a position like this would welcome someone of Nemechek's experience for the 2-3 months he might be in that car. Remember Darrell Waltrip driving for Dale Earnhardt while Steve Park was injured in 1998? Earnhardt did that specifically because of Waltrip's vast experience, and actually got more out of Waltrip than even he thought he'd get. There were even races where Waltrip outran Earnhardt, an example being Fontana, where Waltrip passed Earnhardt late to finish in the top five for the final time in his career. 571. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 1:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Elliott Sadler is gonna drive the 11. They are just ironing out a few things with FedEx, but it's pretty much for sure that he will drive it. Not surprising. 572. cjs3872 posted: 03.27.2013 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Fortunately for JGR murb, the schedule will allow for that, unless Hamlin has some serious setbacks late in April and early in May that will sideline him until mid-June, because the series split in mid-June. Frankly, with the tracks and races that are coming up, I wouldn't bring him back until mid-June anyway. Again, going on the assumption that he's going to be out through aleast Talladega and probably the Southern 500, Charlotte wouldn't be a good time to bring him back, either for the All-Star Race or the Coca-Cola 600, nor would Dover the first weekend in June because of how bumpy that track is, so really Pocono would be the best place for him to return to the #11 car, which would be 11 weeks from now. And even if he recovers early, I think it's too risky to bring him back prior to Pocono. Talladega's too risky because of the high probability of getting in a wreck, Darlington's too physically demanding because of the 500-mile distance, the All-Star Race is too risky for the same reason Talladega would be, the Coca-Cola 600 would not be a good race for him to make a comeback because it's doubtful he could last for 600 miles without a relief driver, and Dover's too bumpy and with his record there, it wouln't be a good place to build confidence. This situation could not have come at a worse time for the #11 team, given the races that are coming up. 573. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) It's just "garbage in, garbage out" in NASCAR nowadays. The only drivers that get good rides are drivers with names. At one point, Sadler was a name and thus will probably always have a competitive ride thanks to the success he had early in his career. IMO, any driver who gets completely outperformed by a teammate with two very mediocre stock car seasons under his belt after a career in open wheel (A.J. Allmendinger), not once, but twice ('09-'10) after suing his former team to stay in that ride doesn't deserve another opportunity at Cup. I was expecting the most obvious choice to be made, but I'm still upset that the job wasn't given to an overachieving veteran like Joe Nemechek or to an aspiring NASCAR driver like Timothy Peters, Johnny Sauter, or Jason White that could help them gain more top flight rides down the road. I guess we'll just have to get used to seeing that #11 car towards the back end of the top 20 on the leaderboard for the time being. 574. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're right Paul. I actually have always liked Sadler, but I agree with you in that he doesn't deserve another opportunity at Cup. He needs to follow in the same steps as guys like David Green and Randy Lajoie who couldn't really get it done in Cup and just stick with NNS for the rest of his career. And yeah, I know that Elliott has three Cup wins, but his first win at Bristol was a fluke strategy win, and I think his smoke and mirrors 2004 season had a ton to do with the greatly underrated Todd Parrott being his crew chief. I like Elliott personally, but he's had his shot at Cup and for the most part, didn't do very well. I don't expect him to do very well in the 11 either, and I believe this decision also takes him out of any remote chance he still had of winning the NNS title this year. 575. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I think his smoke and mirrors 2004 season had a ton to do with the greatly underrated Todd Parrott being his crew chief." Bingo. I give Dale Jarrett a lot of credit to the success of RYR in the late '90s, but without Todd Parrott atop the pit box, Jarrett might not be a NASCAR champion. In Randy LaJoie's defense, I don't think he liked racing in Cup (possibly due to his crash in the '84 Busch Clash) and preferred racing in the Busch Series. After he won the '01 Busch season-opener at Daytona, Mike Joy was talking about him and said how LaJoie likes having his Sundays off and prefers racing on Saturdays instead. I don't know if that's the whole story, but as good as he was in Busch in the late '90s, it's hard to imagine that he wasn't at least offered a shot at Cup, and probably turned them down. I don't mind a veteran like Sadler racing in Cup, I just don't like that he's getting another chance in great equipment after five seasons of mediocrity. I realize that he was teammates to a guy whose crew chief was Kenny "No soup for you!" Francis, but the least he could have done was remind us that he was in the field every once in awhile. And when you're being out-shined by a teammate who DNQ'd 22 times in his first two stock car seasons, it's time to move on and go drive for somebody else. 576. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Lajoie subbed for Craven in the Hendrick 50 car (which was the 25 - they just renumbered it in 1998 in honor of Nascar's 50th anniversary) in 1998, and had a couple top tens and nothing else (actually, one of those was a top five at Martinsville). But you're right, I think Lajoie realized how good he was in NNS and decided to make a career there. I wish Sadler would do that, but every time I see interviews with him he is always talking about how he wants to get back to Cup. Since you're so good in NNS, why not make a career there like Lajoie did? I have a lot of respect for guys that realize this about themselves and decide to just make a career in the minor leagues. Lajoie, all of the Green brothers, Ron Hornaday, and Scott Wimmer (who I REALLY wish had a ride right now) are all good examples that I wish Sadler and Vickers would learn from. 577. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, Jeff Green did have a pretty decent Cup career going until his meltdown on pit road at Richmond '03 when he got in Richard Childress' face after Kevin Harvick wrecked him. Of course, that RCR unit from late '01 to early '03 was destined to fail because all three drivers (Harvick, Green, Robby Gordon) disliked each other. Harvick and Green reportedly told Childress that they couldn't work together after their on-track battles in the Busch Series in '00-'01, and yet he signed Green anyways because he wanted to start a third team. Things went by pretty smoothly the first year, but I think Green was just waiting for Harvick to give him a reason to go off on him, and it wound up costing him his job to the point where his career never recovered after that. But all that aside, I do agree with your point about Busch Series drivers. Same thing with the likes of Jason Keller, Elton Sawyer, and Mike McLaughlin as well. Every series needs its regulars to give it its own unique identity, just like how the Truck Series had the likes of Ron Hornaday, Dennis Setzer, and Rick Crawford for years. It makes things a lot more interesting when they go head-to-head with the Cup drivers because the Cup drivers often times expect the regulars to just roll over for them, and the regulars used to take exception to Cup drivers invading their series and would race them harder than they would each other. It was sort of like a little war going on back in the late '90s. Obviously the Cup drivers and teams have basically bought their success over the past decade by outmatching the Busch regulars and Busch teams on equipment, and that's a shame because the Busch Series used to be a fun little series with all sorts of small-time teams and local names appearing every week, and all of that was lost when teams and sponsors started putting Cup drivers in every competitive ride and taking away opportunities from drivers who really needed it. It's pretty painful to watch what is now the Nationwide Series nowadays because it's basically a 2-3 hour long Cup practice session, but I love watching old footage of that series back when it had its own identity and you knew that the regulars at least had a shot at looking dominant against the Cup invaders. Just another example of NASCAR losing touch with its old roots for the sake of making money. I'm not blaming NASCAR for this one because it was the teams and sponsors that wanted big names in their cars, but it's still an example of the downfall of the sport in my view. It's like watching your favorite high school sports team having all of its stars being benched in favor of the alumni players that are currently playing in college or the pros coming back to high school in order to look dominant again. 578. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I forgot to mention Jason Keller and Dennis Setzer. Those are two more really good ones. 579. cjs3872 posted: 03.27.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And murb, let's not forget guys like Sam Ard, Jack Ingram, Tommy Houston, and Tommy Ellis, though Ellis did take a stab at the Cup Series in the mid 80s, and Ingram qualified a third Junior Johnson car for the 1984 Daytona 500, which had to be withdrawn, mainly because of the pit accident the day before the 1984 Daytona 500 that broke crew chief Doug Richert's leg because Junior Johnson had to be pressed into servce as Neil Bonnett's crew chief. Ingram even won the 300-mile race at Daytona twice, in 1975 and 1980, an almost impossible acomplishment for a non-Cup driver, especially in this era. Among modern non-Cup drivers, only Randy LaJoie can say they won the 300-mile race at Daytona more than once. That makes what Bill Dennis did almost inconceiveable, winning that race three years in a row for Junie Donlavey, from 1972-'74. 580. Damien posted: 03.27.2013 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) It's like fratards on parade in here. 581. Anonymous posted: 03.27.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Ryan and DSFF calling Tony an asshole.Now that's fu*king rich right there! 582. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Just thougth of something: NASCAR's gonna have to wait a while to collect Denny's Phoenix penalty money. 583. jabber1990 posted: 03.27.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @582 yea, I was planning on making that joke too! 584. jabber1990 posted: 03.27.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I am going to add a little bit of humor to lighten the mood I took a nap earlier and I had a dream that was a Cleaned-up GoDaddy.com Commercial, and unlike Fry, I didnt complain Danica was in some sort of Spagetti Western town, and it was either the announcer or some guy on-screen was making fun of Stenhouse. she got a little offended and was about to defend his honor, so the camera angle changes to a western duel type thing cause she's across from the guy (and also straddles a parking cone for some reason) then the on-screen graphic "see what happens next at GoDaddy.com then I woke up 585. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.27.2013 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jabber, don't sleep while high on cocaine or heroin... just don't. With Denny out, there's one less competitive car on the track. 586. cjs3872 posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually DSFF, I'm not sure you're right about the collecting of Denny's fine money. I actually think they've already collected it through the deduction of the purse, either from Bristol or this race at Fontana, which they are entitled to do. And by the way, it was the apparently decision of Brian France, and only Brian France, to levy that $25,000 fine against Hamlin for is comments at Phoenix after the race there. And depending on the track, NicoRosbergFan, I'm not sure about there being one less car without Hamlin in the #11. I think Elliott Sadler can do a good job and the second race he'd be in for Hamlin is one that he's won before, at Texas (in 2004). Whether he will do a good job is something that can only be seen on the track. But there are other tracks, such as Martinsville and Richmond, where he's never been good at. But only time will tell. and Sadler's always been good in the plate races, nearly winning at Daytona three times (the 2001 Firecraker 400 and the 2002 and 2009 Daytona 500s) and actually winning two qualifying races. And two of those near-misses came with the Wood Brothers and the other came for Richard Petty. But if he's in the race at Talladega in the #11 car, it will be the first time since 2004 that he's ben in a plate race with a team that's even close to elite. But again, only time will tell. 587. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't even realize this until I read it, but Denny Hamlin has never missed the Chase. I actually knew it before, but I hadn't thought of it since he was injured. 588. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't forget cjs that Sadler was also a contender in the 2003 fall Talladega race before he inadvertently crossed Kurt Busch's nose and took that wild flip down the backstretch. I agree that he will be a contender at Talladega, as he's always run very well on the restrictor plate tracks, including having a top five car in each of the last three season-opener Nationwide races at Daytona, but I don't see him turning any heads with an impressive run anywhere else. I caught a little bit of Race Hub today, and Steve Byrnes said that he had a talk with Elliott Sadler earlier today, and Sadler said he hadn't had any talks with JGR about driving the #11 Cup car in Hamlin's absence. That's probably PC talk for "Yes I have been in talks about that ride, but I can't say anything until it's a done deal," but it would be kind of funny if he really hadn't heard anything from his own team about replacing his Cup teammate while he's injured. 589. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and on USA Today's article about why you can't count Denny Hamlin out of the championship hunt, a friend of Hamlin's said, "he deals with adversity better than anyone I've known". Apparently, he doesn't know Jeff Gordon. 590. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Aside from Jimmie Johnson, Denny Hamlin is the only driver to never miss the Chase since he became a full-time driver. Even other great drivers like Jeff Gordon ('05), Tony Stewart ('06), and Matt Kenseth ('09) can't say that, which is a testament to how talented Denny really is. Heck, even his own teammate Kyle Busch has missed the Chase twice since joining JGR, having missed it in '09 and '12. Aside from his great rookie season and near championship season in 2010, 2009 and 2012 were Denny's two best seasons in NASCAR. 591. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In Randy LaJoie's defense, I don't think he liked racing in Cup (possibly due to his crash in the '84 Busch Clash)" LaJoie wrecked in the qualifier. Ricky Rudd wrecked in the Clash. 592. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""he deals with adversity better than anyone I've known"." He and his team blew the 2010 Cup championship with a car that was the best in the sport to an overachieving #48 team. At the very least, Jimmie Johnson should be ranked ahead of Denny Hamlin as far as overcoming adversity. 593. JG24FanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch: 25 wins in his first 298 starts (This win marks the debut of "Rowdy The Great" watch out!) Matt Kenseth: 25 wins in his first 475 starts Jeff Gordon: 25 wins in his first 137 starts (Pretty good considering his first two seasons.) Jimmie Johnson: 25 wins in his first 148 starts Dale Earnhardt: 25 wins in his first 252 starts (Pretty good considering his first handful of seasons were plagued with uncertainty.) David Pearson: 25 wins in his first 207 starts Richard Petty: 25 wins in his first 204 starts Tim Flock: 25 wins in his first 140 starts Herb Thomas: 25 wins in his first 108 starts (Beats Jeff Gordon. But Gordon raced in a Super-competitive era.) Marshall Teague: 7 wins in 23 career starts in Grand National (Highest Win% in Cup history.) Fred Lorenzen: 25 wins in his first 124 starts (Along with Sam Ard,the most underrated driver in Nascar history.) Add-on to the list if you feel like it. 594. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'd argue Denny is in the lower half of dealing with adversity. He just looks good nest to his teammate Kyle Busch. And I absolutely cannot believe that, once again, the media is all about "Kyle has matured and will be the guy to beat for the championship this year". Complete garbage. Richmond was only 6 months ago. And while it was certainly an epic comeback by Jeff, it was an equally epic collapse by Kyle. He just totally threw in the towel after they blew that pit call. Even Toyota team orders couldn't get him above 16th. He'll collapse again this year once the slightest amount of pressure hits. 595. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Even Toyota team orders couldn't get him above 16th." That was one of the most overlooked stories of the year in NASCAR last season. I don't think that was mentioned once in the media, yet ESPN did play Kyle's radio when he said "You know what to do," and immediately after that, Denny Hamlin (who was on the same pit strategy as Bowyer and Gordon) pitted, as did Martin Truex, Jr. (who had just pitted a couple laps before). That was one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen in NASCAR, and yet I don't recall it being discussed anywhere other than on this board. As much criticism as Jeff Gordon got from a few of us for rolling over for Jimmie Johnson during the Chase, as least he stayed on the track when he did it. It sure is nice to have two proven wingmen like Hamlin and Truex in your Toyota stable. 596. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since you guys are talking about it, here are my top five "Adversity Overcomers". 1. Jimmie Johnson (Obviously, and unfortunately.) 2. Jeff Gordon (Again, pretty obvious.) 3. Brad Keselowski (He's had some pretty hairy moments in the past two years or so that he's come back from. Most notably, the broken ankle in 2011 and all of the wildness of last year's championship battle.) 3. Kevin Harvick (This might be a bit surprising, but if you really look into it, Harvick has always been really good at overcoming adversity in races. In a Busch race at Bristol in 2001, he came back from multiple laps down to win. And then of course there was his 2nd place finish at Talladega in 2010 with a virtually destroyed race car.) 4. Matt Kenseth (Has always been great at this.) 5. Carl Edwards (I can't count how many times he's had shitty race cars and has brought home top tens in them.) 597. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Fred Lorenzen: 25 wins in his first 124 starts (Along with Sam Ard,the most underrated driver in Nascar history.)" Was Fred Lorenzen like the Matt Kenseth of the '60s or something? The man won 26 races, 32 poles, had a 47% career top five percentage, and is rarely talked about. Ever. He most likely would have won the 1963 Grand National title had he run the full schedule, and maybe it's his non-champion status in the pre-nonstop media era that has kept him mostly under the radar historically. I'm calling anti-Midwestern bias on this one haha. 598. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hadn't really heard what exactly happened in that whole team orders deal at Richmond. It is pretty pathetic when team orders like that happen, but I think it's even more pathetic that the media doesn't even acknowledge it when in the year before, there were two "team orders" stories that they talked about endlessly (RCR at Richmond and Roush/Ford at Talladega). Looks like the media is following along with Nascar's "IOC" policy (a term that I just now coined which means "Inconsistency Over Consistency"). 599. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I just realized I put six people on my list instead of five. Whatever, take off Edwards I guess. My bad. 600. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Since you guys are talking about it, here are my top five 'Adversity Overcomers'." You read my mind. I was just wondering if it was possible to compile such a list. 601. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie and Jeff are interesting when it comes to overcoming adversity. I would say Jeff is better when it comes to winning and having great finishes out of cars that didn't deserve to finish up front (Richmond fall '12, Martinsville spring '05, Charlotte fall '04, Indy '01), and I would say Jimmie is better at winning championships with teams that probably didn't deserve to win the title. He won the '08 title in what may have been Chevrolet's worst season overall since the Ford Taurus dominance from '97-'00, and won the 2010 title in a season where he was neither the most dominant in the regular season (Kevin Harvick) or the Chase (Denny Hamlin) and with a team that made constant pit road mistakes (Fall Texas) and had a hard time adjusting to the new spoiler. But they persevered and won the title anyways because they were the most focused team all season, and it paid off for them at Homestead when the #11 team completely choked. Personally I would have them tied in 1st place as far as overcoming adversity, or maybe put Gordon slightly ahead of Johnson just because of all those great "Refuse to Lose" moments he's had in his career that simply trumps everything, but I digress. :) 602. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You read my mind." lol, Don't we always read each other's minds, David? One time didn't we post like the same exact comment word for word like three times on a thread? 603. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not only that, murb, but you had two drivers ranked at No. 3 on your list. Also, Carl Edwards wouldn't make my list simply because of how conservative he was in the 2011 Southern 500. I've seen Terry Labonte take more risks at making passes than Carl did in those final two laps. (I think it took guts for Terry to stay in the gas on the final lap of the 1980 Southern 500 as the three leaders each hit the wall on the final lap with oil on the race track on those tough-handling Gen-2 cars, and it paid off as he managed to pass David Pearson for the win coming to the line.) 604. JG24FanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Was Fred Lorenzen like the Matt Kenseth of the '60s or something? The man won 26 races, 32 poles, had a 47% career top five percentage, and is rarely talked about. Ever." He never competed in the "small" events either. Which only amplifies the importance of his wins. His four straight wins at Martinsville in the local short-track era where all drivers were good on the shorts is very impressive. He said in his acceptance speech at the NMPA Hall of Fame induction in 1972,that his only regret is that he never won the Southern 500. And said that the Southern 500 was the most important accomplishment in a drivers career. My,how times have changed. 605. murb posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Not only that, murb, but you had two drivers ranked at No. 3 on your list." Somehow I forgot Keselowski when I first made it, so when I realized I had forgotten him I decided to stick him at #3. And then I forgot to change Harvick to 4. So yeah, not my best list I've ever posted on here, lol I agree with you on Edwards not going for the win in that race. I just thought that he sort of fits the mold of a guy who can overcome stuff just because of the amount of times I've seen him take 20th place cars and finish in the top ten with them. He did it quite a few times in the 2011 Chase (Kansas was one of the more impressive ones as he finished 5th after running about 20th all day), and he's also done it this year at both Vegas and California. He's not necessarily great at coming back and winning races after adversity, but he's always been great at taking bad race cars and getting good finishes with them. 606. Paul posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Carl's ability to overcome adversity depends on how good his overall season is. If he's a serious title contender, like he was in '08 and '11, he's more likely to battle back from setbacks during a race. If he's having a mediocre season, like he was last year, he's more likely to finish right where his car is running. 607. David posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Don't we always read each other's minds, David? One time didn't we post like the same exact comment word for word like three times on a thread?" It seems to me I might remember that. Which thread was it? 608. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) The Toyota team orders definitely did not get the attention for being bullshit it deserved. Though, in all fairness, we had just witnessed an EPIC FREAKING COMEBACK from a living legend that was a throwback performance to boot. I give the media a pass for passing that one over. Here is my Top 5 active drivers at overcoming adversity: T-1: Gordon/Johnson. I don't know how many times with each I have muttered "that lucky son of a bitch, he falls in a bucket of shit and comes out smelling like a rose". But for it to happen SO many times, is it really luck? You cannot count either out until the race is over and they aren't in first. 3: Keselowski. To stare the beast right in the face last year after two dominant back to back wins and never lose their confidence, swagger, or speed says a ton. And the entire 2011 season was a giant overcoming adversity test. 4: Joe Montana. I don't care if he isn't a racer and isn't active. No "overcoming adversity" list is complete without Joe Cool. 5: Matt Kenseth. The Stealth Bomber. Plus he has overcome the adversity of feeling a tire going flat in every single race he has ever run. 609. Thomas posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny may be a first class jerk, but you never want to see anybody get hurt and have to miss races. 6 weeks puts Denny out through Talladega. There is no way he'll be able to make up enough points from missing 5 races to get into the top 20 in points, making him a non-factor for the wild card places. The sponsor will likely dictate otherwise, but if I'm Gibbs and Hamlin is ready to come back at Darlington I'd run him in the Nationwide race to see how he does, and then if he does well I'd have him start the Cup race and get out of the car at the 1st caution. Darlington would be a brutal place to try to make a comeback after an injury. After that you have the fortnight in Charlotte for the All-Star race and the 600. He could run the full All-Star race to get ready to return to running the full distance in the 600. 610. JG24FanForever posted: 03.27.2013 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "5: Matt Kenseth. The Stealth Bomber. Plus he has overcome the adversity of feeling a tire going flat in every single race he has ever run." Out of his 25 wins,18 have come from a starting position of 11th or worse. That puts him 4th all-time in that category. Behind the Greats of Big E and JG who both have 25 and Tony Stewart who has 19. 611. JG24FanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 20 years ago today,Jeff Gordon made his first appearance in a Cup race at Darlington. leading the 53rd lap and crashing on the 101st lap with his epic Crash Stouche. Dale Earnhardt led 212 of 367 laps,and lapped Gordon 92 times. On his way to tying Lee Petty in career wins with his 54th. Alan Kulwicki led 2 laps and finished 6th from 14th on the grid. His final Cup race. 612. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) To be more accurate, Michael Waltrip crashed Gordon out of that race. Let's just say their respective career's took vastly different paths. 613. Paul posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon must have realized it wasn't worth it to go after Waltrip on the track, so he just came back the following season (and the 18 seasons after that) and did what Waltrip could never do: Finish in the top 11 in points. That's how you get revenge on someone, by beating them. 614. Paul posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although in fairness to Waltrip, he was 5th in the points with 13 races to go in 2003, until he and his team had one of the most epic points collapses in NASCAR history, and wound up finishing 15th in the points. 615. murb posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "His final Cup race." Such a shame. I wish I could have seen him (and Davey too) race in person. But fortunately, I've been able to relive some of their greatest moments through the internet. It would be interesting to see how the sport would have been different had both Alan and Davey not died. Personally, I feel like we would be talking about AK Racing instead of HMS or Roush, and I definitely think we would be talking about a Davey/Gordon rivalry that would be just as epic as the Petty/Pearson rivalry. 616. JG24FanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon's 19 consecutive Top 11 points finish record in the Modern era,could be matched by only Tony Stewart(maybe)or Jimmie Johnson(almost definitely). Can Jimmie Johnson really keep Ron Malec and Chad Knaus for that long? And Gordon's record is still ongoing. 617. Matt G posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) The idea that Hamlin is great at overcoming adverisity is such a load of bull it's not even funny. If he was even middle of the road at overcoming adveristy he'd have a championship by now as he completely melted down under adveristy during the last race and a half in 2010 when he had one hand on the Cup. Denny's not only poor at overcoming adveristy, but he's a master at creating it for himself with his Jupiter sized ego! Ever notice how well the 48 team performed at the end of the 2010 after Hamlin said that nobody could beat the 11 team ? Or how well Brad started to perform after Denny had multiple run ins with him and said he wasn't that good and would be out of the sport in a couple of years? Or how Logano runs what may have been the best race of his career the week after Denny says that he usually doesn't see him because he's so far ahead of Joey that it won't be a problem? I think that Denny's ego is so huge and he's so arrogant the he brings out the best in his rivals. He can be such a narcissist that I think it gives his competition extra drive to beat him. Denny has as much talent as almost any other driver out there - He might evenbe underrated in this regard as he's good at so many different types of tracks - but I don't think he's ever going to win a championship until he changes his attitude because it puts him in situations that are just not conducive for ultimate success. And DSFF, I completely agree with your point about Kyle Busch and the media. He was really lucky in two ways on Sunday - Not just because the Hamlin / Logano fued opened the door for him to win, but also because this race for the first 199 laps was shaping up to be another classic Kyle dominates (leads over 60% of the race) but chokes in the last run of the race. That long streak of him leading the most laps and not winning the race (can't remember what it was up to but it was high) only ended because the two drivers who were going to beat him were both dead set againt letting the other one win. 618. murb posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Although in fairness to Waltrip, he was 5th in the points with 13 races to go in 2003, until he and his team had one of the most epic points collapses in NASCAR history, and wound up finishing 15th in the points." AND HE EVEN WON A RACE IN THOSE LAST 13!!!!! Michael Waltrip: Bad on the track, bad as an owner (even though he's good as the co-owner of Kauffman-Waltrip Racing), and monumentally bad as an analyst. 619. Paul posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Gordon's 19 consecutive Top 11 points finish record in the Modern era,could be matched by only Tony Stewart(maybe)" Nah. Stewart most likely won't even make the Chase the way his season is going so far. Plus, he's already taken some of his focus off the racing with his "fight" with Logano after the Fontana race. And with all the uncertainties he's dealing with behind-the-scenes with his own team, what we've seen in five races may be what he'll be like over the next 21 races. 620. murb posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Denny has as much talent as almost any other driver out there - He might evenbe underrated in this regard as he's good at so many different types of tracks - but I don't think he's ever going to win a championship until he changes his attitude because it puts him in situations that are just not conducive for ultimate success." I absolutely agree with this 100%. It will be a travesty if he wastes his talents by not winning one. Hopefully this wreck/injury will have a positive effect on his attitude. 621. murb posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It seems to me I might remember that. Which thread was it?" I don't remember exactly. Some time last year though. Maybe somewhere in the Chase. 622. David posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't know how many times with each I have muttered "that lucky son of a bitch, he falls in a bucket of shit and comes out smelling like a rose". But for it to happen SO many times, is it really luck? You cannot count either out until the race is over and they aren't in first." If you need further proof, look no further than this last race at Fontana. It looked like Jeff was actually going to finish IN THE TOP FIVE after running like garbage all race. He was flying on the restart! 623. Paul posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's too bad that Mikey didn't make a career out of competing in the Busch Series, because he probably could have won a championship or two and might be regarded in a much better light had he taken that career path. I actually don't really mind him in the booth during the Truck Series races (except when Kyle Busch or Kevin Harvick are in the field, in which case he becomes a fanboy announcer), but he is too much on the Fox broadcasts. One thing I will commend Mikey on during his career as an owner: He gave 37-year old David Reutimann his first full-time Cup ride. In an era where sponsors and owners were trying to find the next 20-something year old phenom, Mikey took a different route by hiring the older Reutimann, and (with a lot of help from Robert Kaufmann) allowed Reuti to become a multi-time winner at the Sprint Cup level. 624. JG24FanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He was flying on the restart!" We in the South,call that a good omen:D Gordon is willing to risk his neck for positions for the first time in a long time. Martinsville is next,and Gordon is the REAL Master of that track. 625. Paul posted: 03.28.2013 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Along with Fred Lorenzen, Jeff Gordon is the only driver to ever sweep both Martinsville races from the pole in the same season, having done so in 2003. He was on his way to joining Fred Lorenzen (who won four in a row), Richard Petty, Cale Yarborough, Darrell Waltrip, and Rusty Wallace as drivers to have won three straight Martinsville races in the spring '04 race before a part of the track decided to fall apart just as he ran over it. (Jimmie Johnson and Denny Hamlin have since gone on to win three in a row.) However, he is a part of an even smaller group of drivers to have won back-to-back Martinsville races three times ('96-'97, '03 sweep, '05 sweep). The only other driver to accomplish such a feat is Richard Petty, who won back-to-back Martinsville races four times ('67 sweep, fall '68-fall '69, '70-'71, '72 sweep). I'm calling it right now: Jeff Gordon is the second greatest Martinsville driver in NASCAR history, only behind The King. 626. JG24FanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm calling it right now: Jeff Gordon is the second greatest Martinsville driver in NASCAR history, only behind The King." Gordon has an all-time record 11 consecutive Top 5's at Martinsville. And led 431 laps in the '97 spring event,which is the highest single race lap led total since. His leading 329 laps only to finish 14th in last year's event is legendary. 627. JG24FanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 7:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon's interview during the 1993 Transouth 500! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfqI1qBBHaU 628. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richard Petty led over 450 laps at martinsville think it 480.Johnson is betterr at martinsville than Gordon 629. Daniel posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The IRS is now investigating the owners of OXYwater for possible wire fraud and money laundering. Frank Stoddard just can't catch a break. 630. cjs3872 posted: 03.28.2013 - 11:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thomas (#609), I think making the All-Star Race the event to put Denny Hamlin back in the #11 car is a terrible idea because of the high probability of him crashing and reaggravating the injury, or even making it worse. I do agree with you about Darlington being to physical, which is also the same reason I wouldn't bring him back for the Coca-Cola 600 or Dover in early June, bcause those tracks or race are too physically rough to make a comebck in. Thats why I say that I don't think he should come back until Pocono in mid-June, because tht's an easy track on the driver physically and the probability of crashing is relatively low. But on another note, will Gibbs keep Hamlin in the car for the road course events or put a road racing expert in it for those events to try to win them and possibly put it in the owner's Chase and make it eligible for the owner's championship when the Chase starts. 631. murb posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now the hot rumor is that Mark Martin might drive the 11 for all of the races Denny misses, with Vickers in the 55 for all of those races. So I guess we still don't exactly know who will drive this thing. 632. David posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The exception to that would be Talladega, murb, for obvious reasons. In that case, then Kenny Wallace or someone like that could fill in. 633. Smiff_2 posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Due to his aforementioned Plate prowess, I'd think they'd use Sadler for Talladega, unless they use Vickers and have Waltrip drive the 55 (or is he already scheduled to drive it that week?) 634. murb posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Overall, I think Mark is a much better choice to run that car, just because I think he'll do a hell of a lot better than Sadler would. 635. Smiff_2 posted: 03.28.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright, after checking Jayski (which I should have done in the first place...lol), I see that Waltrip's already scheduled in the 55 that week. Therefore, I deduce that if Martin ends up in the 11, Vickers or Sadler will run Talladega. I feel like I just stated the obvious. My bad. xD 636. Anonymous posted: 03.28.2013 - 1:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sadler is supposed to drive the Gibbs #81 @ Talladega, so maybe Vickers for that race. 637. jabber1990 posted: 03.28.2013 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) im going on a long shot here, and I didnt do much research on the subject so if my facts are off please help me let us assume that Mark gets the 11 car, and let us also assume he gets enough points in it giving him enough points to qualify for the chase isn't there a 4th MWR car lying around somewhere (cause didn't Mikey drive a 4th car in the 2012 Daytona 500?) could the 4th car run for 10 races, im also assuming it wont be hard to get sponsorship for mark for 10 races 638. jabber1990 posted: 03.28.2013 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also was wondering this did BK racing evolve from Red Bull? I ask that because they both had the #83 Toyota, and Red Bull left in 2011, BK Racing appeared in 2012. yes, I know it could be a coincidence, so if it is please tell me 639. Paul posted: 03.28.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just watched Gordon's interview from Darlington '93. I love how he said that being a veteran, Mikey should know better than to drive too hard into the corner with fresh tires while several laps down at Darlington when running behind a lead lap car on worn tires who's about to come to pit road, and was given the bottom lane to boot! 20 years later, this interview looks downright silly because now it's clear that Mikey as it turns out did not know better than to do that. Oh well, at least he can say he's in the same class as Jeff Gordon when it comes to drivers with multiple Daytona 500 victories. On a side note, imagine if Gordon's voice was still that high-pitched. LOL. And Gordon is better than Johnson at Martinsville (for now). Gordon should have 10 Martinsville victories, but was the victim of a piece of the track coming up and hitting him (spring '04), Matt Kenseth's snowplow imitation (spring '10), and the infamous late restart that took place last spring. Other than the fall '11 race when Chad kept the #48 out on the final caution and wound up losing the race to Tony Stewart, who passed him on the OUTSIDE, I can't think of any Martinsville races that Johnson should have won, but didn't. (He wasn't going to win the spring '12 race, as Gordon's car was better and he finally got around him prior to the Reutimann caution.) Not only that, but Gordon's longevity of winning at Martinsville is better than Johnson's, having won 7 races over 9 seasons. And in a perfect world, where the more deserving driver always wins, he would at least have 10 wins over 16.5 seasons. 640. Smiff_2 posted: 03.28.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, BK Racing (for the most part) is what used to be the Red Bull team. After they bowed out after 2011, BK Racing bought their assets (the shop, cars, etc.) And as for Waltrip in the 500, he drove a Mike Hillman car last year and this year, it was Swan Racing's #30 car (renumbered as 26) that he drove. 641. cjs3872 posted: 03.28.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And jabber1990 and Smiff_2, they're just as hapless and incompetent now as BK Racing as they were when it was Red Bull Racing. Why should anyone be surpised that they cut bait with Landon Cassill when they did and left him without a ride of any kind going into SpeedWeeks this year, because as I remember, they did somethig similar with A.J. Allmendinger when he was just starting to turn it around, and they were absolutely clueless as to what to do concerning the Brian Vickers situation in 2010 and who to replace him with. Fortunately, they were bailed out somewhat by the serviceabiliy of Casey Mears. And let's not forget the murmors last year about the possibility of the not returning this year, which turned out not to be true, but it may as well been bcause they've been even more invsible this year than they were last year. At last they had some good runs last year. Just look at what's happened with other small teams this year and compare it to what BK Racing's done, or have hve not done this year, and you'll get my point. Funiture Row Racing, albeit with a championship driver, has oved closer to be a true Chase contender, Tommy Baldwin Racing has shown flashes this year, as have Front Row Motorsports, and Germain Racing has clearly stepped off the bottom rungs of the sport and moved up to join the mid-field runners, and is a contender for op 15-20 finishes. After their performance at Phoenix, I predicted that Germain Racing and driver Casey Mears could be the year's big surprise team, and they've been a top 15-20 car in every race but one so far this year. Certainly, the biggest positive surprise this year has been Furniture Row Racing, but Germain Racing is not far behind them. Meanwhile, BK Racing has not improved, and if anything, has only regressed this year, making me wonder about the future of that team and whether it will be back in 2014, especally with the Landon Cassill situation now hanging over it's head and seemingly not caring about how it's faring. 642. joey2448 posted: 03.28.2013 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Although in fairness to Waltrip, he was 5th in the points with 13 races to go in 2003, until he and his team had one of the most epic points collapses in NASCAR history, and wound up finishing 15th in the points." I remember one day a few years ago when I was bored and just perusing random races on this site, and when I came upon that August Michigan race in '03, and saw Waltrips name occupying the fifth-place spot in points, I was astounded! I was like, "There's no way he was that high in points!" But then I remembered all the bad luck he had the rest of the year (except for his Talladega win). He crashed hard at Bristol, crashed at Darlington, crashed at Dover, crashed at Kansas....etc. 643. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.28.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't forget that Jeff basically let Jimmie lead at Martinsville last spring. He was basically toying with the field and without cautions probably could have lapped up to 3rd or 4th place. 644. Eric posted: 03.28.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If JGR decides on Mark Martin, that is a great choice on Toyota drivers that can get. Mark never was at the same level as Denny at Martinsville at Richmond. Denny has way more laps led at Richmond than Mark does, but that isn't nothing to be ashamed of. The fact is Denny is one of the best at Martinsville all time. What I seen out of Mark at MWR is a better driver than I saw at HMS in the final 2 seasons there. Mark in JGR for 4 or 5 races would make Mark a threat to win at Texas, and Kansas. JGR has great equipment for all 3 cars this year. The fact is JGR had a chance to win 4 out of the 5 races this year instead of winning 2 races already this year. Engines problems is the only reason JGR didn't win the win 500 this year. What happened at Bristol was Matt had a great car, but Jeff wrecked front of Matt and Kyle made a mental mistake on pit road 645. Daniel posted: 03.28.2013 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark Martin in the #11 646. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I get to see Mark race live again! 647. murb posted: 03.28.2013 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy to see this. Mark will definitely do better in that car than Sadler and Vickers would have. 648. Schroeder51 posted: 03.28.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Mark getting to drive the #11 while Denny is recovering...Very smart choice by JGR to put Mark in that car for the next several races. Mark gets a chance to run well once again in some of the best equipment in the sport...He'll no doubt do better than either Vickers or Sadler could have. 649. cjs3872 posted: 03.28.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) NicoRosbergFan, I'm not sure that Jimmie Johnson would not have been able to hold Jeff Gordon off in that Mrtinsville race last spring, or repass him. Remember that when the caution flew for David Reutimann's stalled car, that Gordon had nosed ahead of Jimmie, but had not cleared him. I believe that Jimmie could have raced him side-by-side the last four or five laps and beat him, or bumped Jeff and passed him back that way. And actually, even though Jeff had a better car, I believed then, and I believe it now that without that caution, Jimmie wins that race. And by the way, Mark Martin in the #11 car is a terible idea for JGR at Martinsville, because Martinsville has always been just about Mark's worst track on the circuit. But there's on problem with having him in the #11 car for some of the other races through at least Darlington, and possibly all the way through Dover. Who drives the #55 car for Mark in the races he's slated to drive that car? And I heard on NASCAR Race Hub that they aim for Darlington to put Hamlin back in the #11 car. To me, that's a terrible idea, because I don't think he can make it 500 miles, and as I've said, they have to concentrate on one driver for a given race, or basically commit to running about 30th for that event. The Coca-Cola 600 would be a questionable race, at best, to bring him back for the exact same reason, and I'm not sure about Dover, either because of the bumpiness of the track. What they should do is to wait until Pocono to put Hamlin back in the car because that's the least physically demanding track on the circuit. I don't care how well Hamlin usually runs at Darlington, if he can't run all 500 miles, what good does it do? 650. murb posted: 03.28.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Who drives the #55 car for Mark in the races he's slated to drive that car?" Vickers. Seems pretty obvious to me. 651. Paul posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers might as well drive the #55 car every week (except Talladega) until Denny is healthy, since e's pretty much out of contention for the Nationwide title and will most likely drive the #55 car full-time in 2014 anyways. 652. JG24FanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon stats for Martinsville: Wins: 7 Spring race: 3 Fall race: 4 Poles: 7 Spring race: 5 Fall race: 2 Races Led Most: 6 Spring race: 4 Fall race: 2 2nd place: 4 3rd place: 6 4th place: 4 5th place: 4 6th place: 1 7th place: 2 8th place: 2 9th place: 2 Laps Led: 3515 Highest lap led totals: 1997 Spring race: 431 2012 spring race: 329 2003 fall race: 313 1996 spring race: 211 2003 spring race: 190 2004 spring race: 180 2007 fall race: 168 2006 fall race: 165 1999 spring race: 163 2005 fall race: 151 2009 spring race: 147 1996 fall race: 133 2011 fall race: 113 2010 spring race: 92 2007 spring race: 92 2012 fall race: 92 2008 spring race: 90 653. cjs3872 posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I agree that Vickers is out of contention for the Nationwide Series title unless Sam Hornish, Jr. runs into a run of bad luck, but Hornish is going to have bad races, and anyone who hopes to take the Nationwide Series title from him have to capitalize. But one good race could put Vickers or Elliott Sadler as high as sixth place in the standings. So while I don't think he can win the title without help from Hornish, Vickers is almost as close to second place as second is to the leader, and Vickers is currently 11th in points. It's quite clear by Gibbs' choice to have Martin fill in that he doesn't want to do something to hinder any possible run for the title by either Vickers or Sadler. However, the decision to bring Martin in could have other consequences, because it could give Martin a reasonable chance to get into the top 10 in points, and with the #11 team, win a race, which could put Martin in the Chase and eligible to go for the championship, whether he wants to or not. 654. JG24FanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And actually, even though Jeff had a better car, I believed then, and I believe it now that without that caution, Jimmie wins that race." Only in Bizarro world:) 655. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff has 7 wins at martinsville but only 1 championship during the seasons he won at the paperclip.Gordon can equal Waltrips modern era record of top5s at 1 track coincidentally martinsville waltrip has 27 Gordon has 25. 656. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Jimmie wins the way you say cjs, it only further says he and Chad just have an insane hatred of Gordon. No, Jeff definitely would have won that race by at least 6 or 7 seconds if he feels like it. Glad to see Mark get another shot at a top-flight ride. 657. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 03.28.2013 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Johnson wiil get to 10 wins at the paperclip and may challenge Waltrips 12 at bristol.If Johnson does 20 years in cup he could challenge the kings 30 top5s.Johnson will also get to double figures at dover. That is the thing I respect about Gordon the most his versatility at all track types over the course of his career.He does not have 8 wins at any track but he has been so good at some point on practically every track.He has 15top5s at Bristol mville richmond talladega darlington charlotte pocono michigan and loudon and 14 at dover. Johnson has begun to diversify in the last 5 years with his wins coming at a more diverse set of tracks. He has not won on 2 different1.5 milers since 07 wher a large % of his wins came early in his career. He has also gratly improved at bristol and road courses where he used to struggle 658. JG24FanForever posted: 03.28.2013 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 8 laps led leaders from Martinsville: 1. Cale Yarborough 3784 2. Rusty Wallace 3632 3. Darrell Waltrip 3617 4. Jeff Gordon 3515 5. Richard Petty 2823 6. Fred Lorenzen 2731 7. Bobby Allison 2192 8. Jimmie Johnson 1981 With a good enough day,Gordon becomes the all-time leader. 659. cjs3872 posted: 03.28.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) JG24FF and NicoRosbergFan, Gordon did dominate much of that race, but Jimmie led most of the latter stages, and it took Gordon forever to get ahead (he never actually got by Jimmie), so it's actually not beyond the realm of imagination to think that Jimmie could have beaten Jeff on the outside. Remember that in the previous race at Martinsville to that inthe fall of 2011, Tony Stewart had done just that to him, beat him on the outside, so Jimmie knew it could be done, and I think he could very well have held Gordon off in those last four laps had the caution not come out (I think he would have). And if not, Jimmie could very definately have bumped him and gotten by, possibly even on the next lap, which he may already have been planning to do. And as for Chad (and by extension, Jimmie) having it in for Gordon, remember that way back in the fall of 2003, when Jeff was still the clear #1 at HMS, Knaus had told Jimmie to knock Jeff out of the way late in the race if it came to that, a communication that got a stern warning from Rick Hendrick, who remembered what happened in 1990 when two of his drivers (Ken Schrader and Ricky Rudd) got into it while running 1-2. Of course now, since he's clearly the low man on the totem pole at HMS combined with the fact that I think he's holding the #24 team back at the intermediates because of how tempermental he seems to be on the throttle at those tracks, there's no telling what Jeff might do to win a race, since he won't have more than about 8-10 opportunities this year, two of which are already gone (Daytona and Bristol). 660. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 03.28.2013 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be cheering for a JGR car (11 Martin) at Martinsville, haven't been able to do that since Bobby was driving the 18... Can't wait to go to the race. Martinsville and the Bristol Night Race this year, not bad. 661. AveryNH posted: 03.28.2013 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well looks like I was wrong on the whole 'Mark isn't gonna race at Martinsville' thing. As a lifelong Mark Martin fan I wish him the absolute best of luck. Hell he may prove me totally wrong and be a threat throughout the entire weekend, as Hamlin is with that dominant race car. And looking at Mark's stats at Martinsville, he almost always is within at least a top ten finish when his prior finish was 20th or worse. Last time he visited the paperclip he finished 28th. Soooo I'm gonna make a bet now that he'll finish somewhere in the top ten. Have me down for 1 whole dollar. 662. Paul posted: 03.28.2013 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, Stewart passed Jimmie on the outside at Martinsville to win the fall '11 race because Jimmie's tires were much older than Stewart's, since the #48 team didn't pit under the final caution. I don't think the same thing would have happened last spring had the caution not come out because Jimmie and Jeff were on tires with similar wear to them. 663. cjs3872 posted: 03.28.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) For the record AveryNH, I'm not sure I have Martin finishing in the top 15 at Martinsville in the #11 car because he's usually terrible there. Mark has even admitted he doesn't really like racing there. That's why I say it's a bad decision to have Mark race at Martinsville in the #11 car over someone like Sadler, or even Timothy Peters or Johnny Sauter in the Truck Series. I'll be really interested who will be in the #11 car at Talladega if Hamlin doesn't have a miracle recovery because Martin detests racing there, even though he has two wins in the spring race there, including the fastest race in NASCAR history in 1997. My guess is that either Elliott Sadler or Brian Vickers will be in the #11 car at Talladega if Hamlin isn't miraculously back by then. 664. Talon64 posted: 03.28.2013 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Mark finished 2nd at Martinsville as recently as 2010, has 4 top 10's in his last 6 starts there and his 13.3 average finish ranks 6th among active drivers. So his lack of fondness for the track doesn't appear to relate to how well he actually does there, which is pretty good. Mark in the #11 and Vickers in the #55, except for Talladega where it'll be Waltrip in the #55 and probably Vickers in the #11, works out the best for both MWR and JGR. JGR gets a solid sub-in driver while MWR gets Vickers some extra races in the #55 to help prepare for his full time ride in the car in 2014. 665. Anonymous posted: 03.28.2013 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (3) (6) I am just sick of Mark Martin. I wish he would retire. 666. Schroeder51 posted: 03.28.2013 - 11:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (4) Is it just me or is there an abnormally high number of trolls lately? 667. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, I am 100% sure about 1980. Towards the end of that season, Dale did something that would become a trademark of all of his championship runs (except '91). When he absolutely had to, he stepped up and delivered two late victories, one at Martinsville, a track that had given him fits and would continue to do so until '85, then another at Charlotte the next week which was arguably his best track at the time, or 2nd behind Bristol. And that just what Dale did. And that is truthfully the reason he didn't win in '89. He didn't have his "alright, no more playing around, time to win a race" win until it was too late in the last race. 1986 had the Charlotte and Atlanta wins to snuff out the Junior/Darrell era once and for all, in '87 he had the title won by the end of May, '90 had his backbreaking Phoenix triumph, he did have the big win at Wilkesboro in '91 to finish off Rudd (irony alert), he didn't win after the Summer in '93, but had enough 2nd and 3rd place runs to hold a scorching hot 1st ballot HOFer Rusty at bay, and '94 had his shining moment, the "I'll take two" win at Rockingham that clinched his record tying 7th title which followed an insane run of Top 5s (which is why I don't think Ernie could have hung with him). So yes, I am sure. 668. cjs3872 posted: 03.29.2013 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) But DSFF, Dale and the RCR team was under no pressure at all in 1994 after Ernie's crash at Michigan, which sewed up Dale's seventh championship with three months still to go in the season. Had Ernie been around to battle Earnhardt for the championship, it's quite possible that Earnhardt might have made a mistake that he didn't make in those final races because he had nobody pressuring him. Remember, Ernie Irvan's car was faster than Earnhardt's was, and that speed advantage that Robert Yates had might have forced an error from not only Dale, but more importantly, it might have forced the guys at RCR to take chances with their engines that might have resulted in a catastrophic engine failure or mechanical problem like what happened to them at Charlotte in 1989 when he battled Rusty and Mark for the title the first time around. That's one championship battle (1994) I would have loved to have seen play out, but unfortunately, the tire war that existed that year changed all that. 669. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) First off, they didn't quit just cause Ernie was gone from the hunt. He crashed out of that race on the fateful Michigan weekend on a side draft gone wrong. But from that point to the end of the season, with the exception of Phoenix the week after they clinched and blew a motor (experimenting) it was one Top 5 after another. There is absolutely no evidence to show Dale would make a mistake in the heat of a title run. His ability to stay cool and do his best work under that ultimate pressure was superhuman. As for the RCR engine shop, they never would have strayed from their conservative gameplan. They never ever have, and wouldn't have then. Richard has never strayed from being conservative. You mentioned Charlotte '89, but that was a broken crankshaft just 13 laps in. That isn't trying to hard, that is a faulty piece of metal. 13 laps isn't even time enough to get the metal hot. The only other late season in the title hunt failure RCR ever had was the late race blown engine at Charlotte '91. But that was part of a sluggish as hell season end that spilled into their pile of steaming garbage that was their '92 season. RCR wouldn'r have buckled under the pressure of Yates cause they knew what they had behind the wheel. 670. I love Japan posted: 03.29.2013 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Isn't Martin the first driver to drive for Roush, Hendrick, and Gibbs? 671. Paul posted: 03.29.2013 - 2:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Isn't Martin the first driver to drive for Roush, Hendrick, and Gibbs?" Kyle Busch beat him to that distinction. 672. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.29.2013 - 5:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF, don't fight it; Jesus Christ has spoken. 673. Jim Davis posted: 03.29.2013 - 7:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is interesting. I would have bet heavily against it. "Hamlin's Chase chances very much alive" http://espn.go.com/racing/blog/_/name/newton_david/id/9104177/nascar-denny-hamlin-chase-chances-very-much-alive 674. JG24FanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 7:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ken Griffey Jr. #24 Refuse to Lose! Watch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFW0LRHLuY8 675. JG24FanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 7:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF,in a previous debate we had about Earnhardt's 1980. You said Richard Petty's crash at Pocono didn't matter because Petty was fading anyway. Are you sure? because I looked up where he was in the points before the accident and he was second,only 48 behind Dale. Cale was 160 points behind in third. After Richard broke his neck,he fell 144 points behind. But was still in second. 676. I love Japan posted: 03.29.2013 - 7:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright thanks Paul xD. Still that's a good list. Kyle Busch and Mark Martin. And I sincerely believe those have been the "Big 3 of NASCAR" since the turn of the millennium. 677. Anonymous posted: 03.29.2013 - 8:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @641: Furniture Row Racing may be a small team on its own, but it's really a Childress satellite team. 678. Scott B posted: 03.29.2013 - 11:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting that Mark Martin and Matt Kenseth will be reunited as teammates, at least for a while. Also, I have to wonder if this could lead to Mark driving a part-time schedule in 2014 in a fourth JGR car. All that's missing is a sponsorship package. 679. cjs3872 posted: 03.29.2013 - 11:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, in their previous title battles, Dale and RCR never had to go against a car that was obviously faster that them at just about every track except possibly the short tracks. And that speed disadvantage the Childress team was at likely would have forced them out of their conservative game and forced them to be more aggressive with their engnes and other mechanical parts, which would likely have led to a failure which could have been disastrous. But Ernie's crash eliminted that possibility, and if anything, it allowed RCR to be even more conservative. And you're right, Dale and RCR didn't quit, but they didn't have the outright speed to win either. In fact, by the end of the 1994 season, Hendrick Motosports was faster than RCR, a fact that manifested itself the following years. 680. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Good grief cjs, with the exception of '87, Dale NEVER had the horsepower of his top rivals. There was Tim Richmond in '86 (dominated the Pocono events as well as pre plate era Daytona win), Mark in '90 who won the second Michigan race outright (Dale won the 1st race there after the dominant Bill Elliott blew up), in '91 it was RCR's engine shop vs Randy Dorton, a mismatch made in heaven. And Jiminy Freaking Christmas, what do you call the '93 title fight? Talk about going head to head with a faster car, those Penske Grand Prixs were flat flyin', those hot rods were gettin' it! And lest we forget, at the time of Ernie's horrible accident, not only were him and Dale tied for win (3 apiece) but Dale was actually ahead in points. Do you honestly have your money against the greatest driver under championship pressure ever? Ernie was great. I loved Ernie, and he had began to find that line between driving the piss outta the car and chilling out at times. A championship was definitely in his future. But not in '94. Dale wasn't gonna crack, and RCR wasn't gonna let any mechanical failures happen. Personally, without the injury, and given Yates strength, I see Ernie and the #28 team winning the Cup in '96, '97, and '99. Cjs, at some point you have to accept two things. 1) Dale was the greatest championship racer ever, routinely beating drivers with faster cars (and he would have done it again in '96 had he not got hurt) because he was simply better and his team was smart enough to build him battle tanks and 2) thriving under that week in week out pressure cooker is more impressive than holding up under the pressure of winning a Grand Slam race. And that is why Dale is the best ever. Legends like Bobby Allison and Jeff Gordon were great at the Grand Slams, two of the three best ever at those (the king of that category? The King)b ut they couldn't race for the big trophy the way Dale could. And Dale never had the equipment they had. They were great. Repeat: Jeff is a legend, one of the best ever, and somebody I feel truly blessed to have had the pleasure of watching live throughout his entire career. No list of legends is complete without those two. But Dale is the greatest ever. He would have won 1980 no matter what happened to Petty, and he would have won 1994 no matter what happened to Ernie 681. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also Hendrick's success from '95 onward can be attributed to the new Monte Carlo and the sudden leap to engineering that prevailed, both of which HMS nailed and RCR whiffed on. 682. jabber1990 posted: 03.29.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) prepare for me to ramble about nothing this came to me yesterday when I saw a picture of Danica and Stenhouse together, the caption said "you need to qualify better, you're starting to embarass me in front of my friends," there aren't that many movies about NASCAR (for some reason) and i've always had an interest in film and wanted to do some of my own so maybe somebody should do a movie about 2 nationwide series drivers that are married! although I have no clue how to make a 2.5 hour long movie about a 35 race season its not the first racing idea i've mentntioned, I said on this post that this weekend is the begining of the Wrangler Teen Series season, they are doing the 5 hour Energy 5 hour Dash on Saturday, its on a city course in a residential area of Cape Girardeau, MO. and like every year the race might be the last held, its turning into a pain in the ass to run a city-course. then after the Teen Series Race (which is a techincal lie, everyone who participates is aged 6-20) there is the Top Division Race on the same track exept for a 7 hour endurance race as for more stories i've never written: since about August 2005 i've been working on a story about a school for superheros and nudists being drafted to fight into World War 3 and since about October 2002 a story about 7 school districts attending a summer camp and establishing 7 countries, now that I know more about history, and politics than I did in 7th grade the story would be more intersting...and yet very very boring, I do wish that schools would integrate it into their cirruculum ok im done rambling for the time being from now on when I am going on a ramble ill warn ya'll, if intersted 683. cjs3872 posted: 03.29.2013 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that thing you mention about Dale being the greatest at racing for championships may or may not be true. He's in the top three or four unquestionably, but I can't definitively say he was better than Richard Petty or Jimmie Johnson, or even David Pearson, though I can't definitively say they were better than Dale at racing for championships, either. And although Dale was ahead of Ernie Irvan in points at the time of Ernie's crash, it was a very slight lead, though if not for the tire failure at Indy, Irvan would have led going into Michigan by about 50 points (that tire failure cost him at least 65 points, plus the five Earnhardt gained). But our theories prove why, of all the championship battles, I believe this one would have been one of the five greatest had it not been for Irvan's crash, because much like 1979, one team had all the experience and knowhow to win championships, while the other easily had the better stuff. I think that would have been, by far, the toughest championship battle of Earnhardt's career, and I think there would have been a better chance of the RCR team cracking than Earnhardt cracking. But one thing I disagree on is that it wasn't until 1995 that Hendrick Motorsports passed RCR in terms of perfomance, because they surpassed RCR during the 1994 season. But as Earnhardt himself once told Rick Hendrick, Hendrick did not yet know how to race for and win a championship. The race in which Earnhardt clinched the title was a perfect example of this. Both Jeff Gordon and Terry Labonte had clearly superior cars, but both failed, while Earnhardt made it to the finish, edging Rick Mast to win the race and the championship. And the following week at Phoenix, Terry Labonte was so dominant in the second half of the race, he lapped all but two cars, so Hendrick had already passed RCR in terms of performance, but it would take another year for them to figure out how to win a championship. And you also forget that, in 1990, if not for the penaly after Mark's win in the second race, Dale doesn't even win the championship, because the penalty give to Mark was bigger than the margin by which Earnhardt beat him for the title, and Earnhardt's cars were clearly better in 1990 because he won nine times plus the All-Star Race, and it should have been 10 plus the All-Star Race. And while Rusty did win 10 times to Earnhardt's six in 1993, I wouldn't consider Rusty's car to have been that much faster than Earnhardt's that year. Rusty's big advantage over Earnhardt (and everyone else) was his pit crew, which was also why he was the winningest driver of 1994, even at the time of Ernie's accident at Michigan. Rusty had five wins, while both Earnhardt and Irvan each had three. Where Earnhardt beat Rusty for the title in 1993 was in the plate races (he outpointed Rusty by about 200-230 points in just those four races), and still, if it weren't for the injuries inflicted upon Rusty in that wild crash at Talladega, Rusty probably wins the title in 1993. But one thing I agree with you on is just how poorly Bobby Allison was when he raced for championships, because his personality just wasn't fit for that. And as for Ricky Rudd in 1991, the thing that got him in position to possibly win the championship wasn't the speed of his cars, but rather his consistency, because Rudd was actually the most consistent finisher in 1991, but only won once. His teammate, Ken Schrader, even won more races in 1991 than did Rudd (2-1). But Rudd folded down the stretch, and lost a little bit of that consistency, and briefly lost second place because of that, though he did get it back in the finale. But you're factually wrong about one thing. Richard Petty wasn't the best in the big races, even among his own contemporaries, since Bobby Allison was better in the big events. Jeff Gordon towers over all others in that regard, thoug Jimmie Johnson may have an outside chance at Gordon's overall record in that regard. 684. jabber1990 posted: 03.29.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) since the GoDaddy money is going away at the end of 2013 do you think there is a chance that Nationwide will step up and write a blank Check (or a smaller, but very big) check for Danica in the Cup series? I hope its not in the nationwide series, that would be a conflict of interest casue isnt Danica also the spokesperson for Nationwide? 685. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, that thing you mention about Dale being the greatest at racing for championships may or may not be true." Christ on Tuesday, did you really just type that? You know it is one thing to say something, to just blurt something out, but to type it, look at it, then press the publish button is pretty bad. "but I can't definitively say he was better than Richard Petty" Richard lost 3 in 4 years to David Pearson (although he did beat him in '64). "or Jimmie Johnson" Jimmie is 5-3 in title fights, Dale is 7-1. "r even David Pearson" Now that is an interesting one. He tried 4 times and won 3. Much like his entire career, we can only guess what he would have done year after year under the grind and pressure of a full schedule. "And although Dale was ahead of Ernie Irvan in points at the time of Ernie's crash, it was a very slight lead" Yeah, he had a slight lead, yet his average finish after Michigan (6.5 WITH the 40th place and blown engine at Phoenix after they clinched) was better than his average finish prior to Michigan (7.35) when he still had the lead anyways. Would Ernie have stepped up too? Are you really gonna say he'd have stepped it up better than the best ever at stepping it up? These are cold hard numbers we are dealing with. "one team had all the experience and knowhow to win championships, while the other easily had the better stuff" Yet the one without the better stuff but having the experience and guts STILL had the points lead heading to the crucial stretch and STILL had the same number of wins. I fail to see how anything you've said points to anything other than "Dale wins again". "I think that would have been, by far, the toughest championship battle of Earnhardt's career, and I think there would have been a better chance of the RCR team cracking than Earnhardt cracking." The RCR team would not have cracked because they knew Dale wouldn't have cracked. Again, look to ONE YEAR PRIOR! Rusty was murdering the win column and looking like he might erase a huge points deficit and beat the RCR team AGAIN, for the 2nd time in 5 seasons. They were going against the one driver that had beat Dale head to head already. If they didn't crack then, what makes you think they would crack in '94? And it is the same group that also didn't crack the next year even when they were down over 300 points, damn near making it up in '95 when they were REALLY outclassed on speed. "nd you also forget that, in 1990, if not for the penaly after Mark's win in the second race, Dale doesn't even win the championship, because the penalty give to Mark was bigger than the margin by which Earnhardt beat him for the title" Jack Roush + deceptively large points lead = conservation. Opponents conservation + Dale Earnhardt = feasting time. Roush has almost 30 years of proof he races differently with a points lead. That penalty kept Dale close, forced the #6 team to keep pressing, not let off and lose their momentum (which would have happened without the penalty), and damn near won them the title if not for The Backbreaker In The Desert. "And while Rusty did win 10 times to Earnhardt's six in 1993, I wouldn't consider Rusty's car to have been that much faster than Earnhardt's that year." Dale in '93: 6 wins, 17 Top 5s, 2 poles, 1475 laps led. Rusty in '93: 10 wins, 19 Top 5s, 3 poles, 2860 laps led (!!!) "But Rudd folded down the stretch" Lol, that's putting it mildly. After Dale crashed in the Fall Dover race, his points lead over Ricky was 36. His final 6 races he finished 3rd, 1st, 25th (blown engine), 7th (2 laps down at The Rock), 9th (a lap down in the short race at Phoenix) and 5th. Not a horrible ending. Yet in those 6 races he increased his lead to 195! How do you gain 159 points with a finish like that? In conclusion, the numbers and history say differently cjs. In order for Ernie to win it all in '94, Dale would have had to gag. I don't see how you can even start to make that claim. Fir example, I can make a damn good case Dale would have won '96 without his injury. First off, going into that Dega race, he was just 12 points back. So despite Jeff and Terry's blistering late Summer surge, Dale would have hung in there, probably around 100 points back by the time Charlotte rolled around. We have proof from previous seasons and that season itself Dale could grind out finishes like nobody else. Secondly, once Jeff began his second consecutive late season gag, Dale would have smelled blood. Rainbow colored blood. Again, we have history showing nobody went for the kill in a points battle like Dale (Martinsville and Charlotte '80, Charlotte and Atlanta '86, Phoenix and the Atlanta test in '90, North Wilkesboro in '91, putting Rusty away after he blew his tire at Phoenix '93, Rockingham '94 when he decided to just get the thing over with). What hurt Dale after his injury was he could no longer make up for a car's deficiency like previously. He wasn't Dale Earnhardt behind the wheel anymore. But prior to that wreck, he still was in '96. So who is your money on once Jeff let others back in the title hunt? Late Season Jeff Gordon? Terry Labonte? Dale Jarrett? Or Dale "I'm Still Dale Earnhardt" Earnhardt? I know who mine is on. And if it came down to Dale and Terry, do you think Dale would hesitate to rattle Terry's cage? Dale Earnhardt is the greatest ever. 686. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I saw a picture of Danica and Stenhouse together, the caption said "you need to qualify better, you're starting to embarass me in front of my friends," HA! Love it! 687. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Gordon towers over all others in that regard" So here is my question, something I am genuinely curious about myself. What happens to Jeff at the end of seasons? He reminds me a lot of Peyton Manning. Unparalleled brilliance in the first 3/4 of seasons, and a curious, sudden brick wall they hit in the end. Obviously there are a few exceptions, most notably 1998. He also had pretty strong closeouts of '00, '03, and '05 that led to resurgent years that followed. But overall the stretch run for him is just murder. 688. murb posted: 03.29.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The second part of that Ricky and Danica caption should have her saying, "Oh yeah? Well you're embarrassing me in the ROTY battle!!!!" 689. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.29.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Quite frankly I agree with DSFF on all counts but one: The Silver Fox is inarguably the greatest ever. Had he run full time, he definitely wins 72, 73, 76, and God only knows how many more races. He may have won 67 and 70 as well because of his short track prowess. 690. jabber1990 posted: 03.29.2013 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) does it matter who is saying that in the picture? it kind of kills the joke 691. murb posted: 03.29.2013 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) MWR is now saying that Mark will only drive the 11 for JGR at Martinsville, and that he will return to the 55 at Texas. Both MWR and JGR really need to make up their minds as to what they are doing. 692. Richie61NYfan posted: 03.29.2013 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Remember the Geico commercial where the giggling,loud laughing witch flies in on a broomstick ? He-He-He-HE-Ha-Ha-Ha-Ha !! Picture Danica with a green dress and green pointed GoDaddy hat as she flies in for a landing. Hops on the broom stick after the pit stop and takes off giggling and then you hear "CRASH". Next scene shows her sitting on the broom stick stuck in the wall and then she looks straight at the camera and says "BUMMER" !!!! 693. Eric posted: 03.29.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, Are you concern about Cam Newton wanting a higher salary soon since Flacco and Tony Romo have signed new deals with Rodgers getting a new deal soon also? Flacco is making about 20 million a season for 6 years and Tony Romo willing be averaging 18 million dollars a season for 6 years. The talk is the Packers are planning to give Rodgers 25 million a year. Yes, Flacco and Romo are getting paid more in a season that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning is. Flacco is getting paid as much as Drew Brees is for a season. 694. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, I am actually hoping Cam asks for a huge, unreasonable contract, gets told no, makes a scene, gets traded, then we get a QB that isn't a complete cancer to a club. Nico, Pearson is the great unknown. He will always leave us guessing. Could he have held up under the grind of many consecutive full seasons without burning out? But I don't argue with people who have him as #1. 105 wins in 574 starts, 3 championships in 4 attempts. Hard to argue. 695. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well hell, if the Cowboys are gonna give Romo a 6 year $108 million extension then Cam might get a pretty big extension too. Damn damn damn damn. All I want is for the Panthers is for them to have a QB that doesn't love the smell of his own shit. 696. JG24FanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "once Jeff began his second consecutive late season gag" You continue to push an obvious myth on everyone about 1996. Let's have a look at this season ending "collapse,choke,gag". Here are Jeff Gordon's finishes in the final 12 races of 1996: Watkins Glen: 4th place Michigan: 5th place Bristol Night: 2nd place Southern 500: 1st place Richmond: 2nd place Dover: 1st place Martinsville: 1st place North Wilksboro: 1st place Charlotte: 31st place (an engine failure isn't gagging.) Rockingham: 12th place(ill handling car. one bad race in 12 races.) Phoenix: 5th place Atlanta: 3rd place (made up two laps after his TEAM failed him and led 59 circuits.) There isn't any choke or collapse or mental failure to be found. 10 Top 5's in 12 races 4 wins 2 runner-up 1 third 1 fourth 2 fifth Where's the choke? 697. cjs3872 posted: 03.29.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) DSFF, the question is, would the #28 team with Ernie Irvan, which was clearly faster than Earnhardt in 1994, have forced the RCR team into a mistake trying to risk a more aggressive setup? That's the point I was getting to. And let's not forget that they had been through a tense championship battle themselves in 1992 (with Davey Allison), so it wasn't like they hadn't been through one before. I don't think Ernie and the #28 team would have forced Earnhardt into a mistake for the very reasons you mention, but the superior speed of the #28 car might have forced RCR to take a risk with the mechanical setup that could have backfired, which, as you astutely noted, is exactly what Earnhardt and the Flying Aces did to Roush in 1990. They ran a setup that would actually have been illegal in the race just to put up a big speed number during a test ssion at Atlanta, and Roush never did recover from the shock and awe of that moment. And as for the way RCR performed down the stretch in 1995, you really miss the point. They had no pressure at all on them, so they tried stuff for 1996 with the outside possibility that it would put pressure on the less-seasoned #24 team, and it worked virtually every time. That, combined with the #24 team being too conservative down the stretch, made the final tally much closer than the season really was. And it did work at the beginning of the 1996 season, as they scored two wins and a second in the first four races. And one thing about your comparison of the stats from 1993. Remember that drvers can get really fat in the laps led category at short tracks, as Rusty did that season, and as Dale had done in the mid-to-late 1980s, so that's a very misleading stat. Just look at how long Jeff Gordon was at or near the top of the laps led category from just one race last year, and you'll see what I mean. And also, Earnhardt was conservative (for him) most of the final third of the season, a fact backed up by the fact that he did not win after Talladega in July, when that was his sixth win that season. He could have won more if he needed to, but all he and his team wanted to do was to keep Rusty in sight, which he did. And in 1996, I don't think Earnhardt would have made a serious push, even if he had not gotten hurt, for one big reason. His team had fallen behind, mainly because of Childress' idiotic decision not to have a true crew chief for 1996, which set the team back many years. That decision, more than any crash or injury Earnhardt expericenced, set the team back, because it was no longer championship-caliber. In fact, it can be argued that they still have not recovered fully from that decision more than 15 years ago, as they've truly contended for a championship only twice since then, in 2000 and 2010, and have not really been competitive with the top teams for a majority of that period. As for the 1996 season, Earnhardt had a sizeable point lead more than a third of the way into the season, but when they had an engine failure at Pocono in a race Jeff Gordon dominated, the tide turned against Earnhardt at that moment, and he never got it back. Earnhardt still had the point lead if I remember right, but their confidence was shaken, and they lost control during the summer even before Earnhardt's Talladega crash, which stuck a fork in his title hopes. 698. Paul posted: 03.29.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It should also be noted that Terry Labonte won the Charlotte race that Gordon suffered an engine failure in. And if the modern day welfare system that we have today was around back in '96, Gordon easily gets back on the lead lap and contends for a top five finish. But I guess there will always be some people who simply look at those two results and proclaim that Gordon choked away the '96 title, just because "Gordon always fades at the end of the season." If Gordon choked away the '96 title, then Earnhardt clearly choked away the '89 title since he too had a mechanical failure at Charlotte and a disappointing run at Rockingham, not to mention him getting dumped by the Rooster at North Wilkesboro and then whining about it after the race. (I guess it's okay when Dale whines, but not okay when Jeff whines.) But alas, Earnhardt fans will always argue against that because he's Dale Earnhardt, and Dale Earnhardt never folds under the pressure of battling for a championship. Yet they'll say the opposite when it comes to Gordon and his '96 title. Funny how that works out since those fans have always resented Gordon, but I'm sure that's just a coincidence... 699. murb posted: 03.29.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This debate might get ugly. 700. Paul posted: 03.29.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only reason why Earnhardt had the points lead about halfway through the '96 season is because Gordon had three finishes of 33rd or worse in the first nine races, including back-to-back 40th or worse finishes to begin the season, and Labonte had three finishes of 24th or worse in the first eight races. Earnhardt on the other hand had just one bad finish in that time span, a 31st place finish at Richmond. His engine failure at Pocono basically evened things out between himself and the HMS cars, and then his crash at Talladega about a month after that was the final nail in the coffin for his '96 season. I give Dale a ton of credit for lasting as long as he did against the much better HMS cars at the top of the points, but the fact of the matter is that he was going to have another bad race at some point in the season, and once it happened at Pocono, he no longer had that "Matt Kenseth in 2003" advantage where he could just coast his way to the championship, and that allowed Labonte and Gordon to regain a ton of ground that they lost at the beginning of the season on Earnhardt. With an equal playing field as far as how many mulligans the three drivers had used up, the crew chief situation that the #3 team had, and the speed advantage that the #5 and #24 teams had, Earnhardt had no shot at winning the title after that. 701. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.29.2013 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) With 4 races left Jeff had a 100 point lead. He lost the title by by 36 points. Those are the ones you have to win. He lost the '96 title for the same reason Dale lost '89, he failed to step up. I don't blame the Charlotte mechanical failure, the Great Wilkesboro Incident of Eighty Nine, or Rusty dumping him at Rockingham. He had a mediocre run at Martinsville and at Phoenix when Rusty tangled with a lapped car, failing to stomp his throat while he was down like he did in '93. And in '96 Jeff failed to step up at Rockingham and Phoenix where he finished two spots behind Terry and his backup car and his freshly broken wrist. Cjs, the answer to your opening question is No, they wouldn't have. If they didn't in '93 against their toughest rival, they wouldn't have in '94. 702. Paul posted: 03.29.2013 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I applaud the Racing-Reference team for adding a link to David Smith's Motorsports Analytics page. As much as I've criticized his crash frequency data, I do enjoy his articles and think his PEER rating is very good. Right now Sam Hornish, Jr. has a PEER of 6.100, and tied for 2nd among Nationwide regulars are Justin Allgaier and Regan Smith at 3.100. Hmmm, not bad. Also, teammates Hal Martin and Jeff Green have the same PEER rating of -1.000. The difference is that Martin has full sponsorship and Green start-and-parks. What a joke. 703. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.29.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) DSFF, give it up. You are going against the word of god when you debate cjs and his logical fallacies. 704. cjs3872 posted: 03.29.2013 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And DSFF, that's why it's such a shame that the 1994 championship battle was cut short the way it was, because we'll never know. And I wouldn't exactly call Jeff Gordon not taking advantage at Phoenix in 1996 not stepping up. He did finish fifth, but Terry just did better and finish third. The one race that was poor for him down the stretch was Rockingham, where he was 12th. Engine failures happen, and Gordon's at Charotte couldn't have come at a worse time, and again, Labonte took full advantage, just like a true champion would, by scoring maxuimum points in his only points win at Charlotte. Then Gordon's team fell flat on their face again at Atlanta, and only Gordon kept the championship battle from being over early that day, and made Labonte earn it. Of course, since Labonte almost never made mistakes when pressured, it didn't matter. And Paul, what happened in 1996 was that Earnhardt's two early wins, combined with the early stumbles of both of Hendrick's key drivers, gave him a huge point lead over Gordon and Labonte after just four races, and it took them until mid-season to finally catch up, but a rare RCR engine failure and the poor decision not to have a quality crew chief was eventually what did Dale in, even before the crash at Talladega, and that crash finished him off for several years. It wasn't until 1999 that the vintage Earnhardt reappeared. But Richard Childress' mismanagement of RCR in the second half of the 90s cost Earnhardt the chance to conted more often, and the results of his mismanagement really began to show up in 2002, the year fter Dale, Sr.'s death. 705. David posted: 03.29.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica Patrick's PEER is currently 0.250. 706. Talon64 posted: 03.29.2013 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Better than the -1.050 she had last season, although the top 10 at Daytona inflates it. 707. David posted: 03.29.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Other PEER nuggets: - Dale Earnhardt, Jr. leads after five races with a 5.100 rating. This is probably the best start of his career - Among drivers who have started all five races, Marcos Ambrose ranks last with a -0.300 rating. - Aric Almirola holds a 0.750 rating, which is replacement-level, but much better than his season-long rating last year of 0.444. - Casey Mears's rating is 0.850. He has posted negative ratings for three consecutive years. - Kurt Busch rates a 2.450, two production brackets better than last year's 0.879, which he obviously achieved by overdriving--and wrecking--the Phoenix Racing cars. In fact, Busch's best rating over the past five years is a 2.250 in 2009. 708. Jim Davis posted: 03.30.2013 - 12:57 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I applaud the Racing-Reference team for adding a link to David Smith's Motorsports Analytics page." I could be mistaken but that looks much more like a paid advertisement than just a link. 709. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.30.2013 - 7:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Romo is the true definition of a choker 710. JG24FanForever posted: 03.30.2013 - 7:23 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Top 40 Greatest Cup Series drivers of All-Time part VII: -1. David Pearson -2. Jeff Gordon -3. Dale Earnhardt -4. Richard Petty -5. Jimmie Johnson -6. Bobby Allison -7. Herb Thomas -8. Darrell Waltrip -9. Tim Flock 10. Cale Yarborough 11. Tony Stewart 12. Mark Martin 13. Rusty Wallace 14. Bill Elliott 15. Ned Jarrett 16. Fireball Roberts 17. Junior Johnson 18. Lee Petty 19. Buck Baker 20. Curtis Turner 21. Fred Lorenzen 22. Dale Jarrett 23. Joe Weatherly 24. Bobby Isaac 25. Terry Labonte 26. Rex White 27. Matt Kenseth 28. Benny Parsons 29. Fontello Flock 30. Tim Richmond 31. Kyle Busch 32. Ernie Irvan 33. Harry Gant 34. Buddy Baker 35. Davey Allison 36. Alan Kulwicki 37. Leeroy Yarbrough 38. Ricky Rudd 39. Brad Keselowski 40. Red Byron This is as good as I could make it. 711. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.30.2013 - 7:51 am Rate this comment: (1) (8) Honestly, you've put out so many damned lists nobody gives a rat's @$$ about them any more. cjs, it's a waste of my time to pick you apart because DSFF will do much better than I. 712. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.30.2013 - 7:55 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Still can't get past the 3 team having the lead then stepping up their average finish after Michigan even wirh the 40th place finish after they clinched the title. These are cold hard facts. Unless you think Ernie would have gone Jimmie Johnson in late '07 on them (not impossible, Ernie was talented as hell and those 28 cars were fast, but highly unlikely), it is most likely Dale would have only needed a 20th place finish at Atlanta to clinch. Here is my Top 40: T1: Dale Earnhardt T1: David Pearson T1: Richard Petty (The above were listed in alphebetical order) 4-40: Everyone else 713. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.30.2013 - 9:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that may be the most inarguable top-40 of all time list I've ever seen. 714. Eric posted: 03.30.2013 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I have a hard time to see a top 40 greatest cup driver list of all time that has Kyle Busch, not Kurt Busch on it. I know Kurt's antics over look what Kurt does on the race track, but Kurt actually is a very cup driver. If wins win at Furniture Row this year, it would be considered an impressive job of racing out of him. I seen Kurt this year taking cars closing to the front than they should be. Kurt has a chase championship unlike and Kurt has an easier time to close out wins at race than Kyle does. Kurt is the more well rounded cup driver to me. Kurt has a better record at plate racing than Kyle despite Kurt doesn't have any points wins at plate tracks unlike Kyle. Kurt has more mile and a half wins than Kyle does. Kurt also won at Martinsville and has wins at all 3 cup tracks less than a mile long. Kurt also has won at Pocono 2 times compare to Kyle never won there in cup. Kurt also is a good road racer on the cup level. Kurt has won at all 3 active one mile tracks like Kyle has. The big different is Kurt never won at Darlington and only won at one of the two road courses. 715. Paul posted: 03.30.2013 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think that if Kyle didn't run so many Nationwide and Truck Series races, and by doing so boost his stats, he would be regarded as being about the same, if not slightly behind, his brother Kurt in terms of greatness. The fact that Kurt has 3 top five points finishes and Kyle only has one (and all three of Kurt's top five finishes, 1st, 3rd, and 4th, rank higher than Kyle's 5th place points finish) puts Kurt above Kyle in terms of who the better driver is. If Kurt ran as many lower series races as Kyle has from '08-present, I think Kurt would have won more races. We already saw last year that Kurt could win with at Kyle's Nationwide team at Richmond, and then again with Phoenix Racing at Daytona, while Kyle couldn't win at all, even after increasing his schedule after he missed the Chase, so who's to say that Kurt couldn't have been more successful if he was linked to a team like JGR that uses Cup drivers in a lot of Nationwide races. Also, Kurt Busch's performance at Sonoma two years ago was one of the most dominating road course performances I've ever seen. Not only did he lead 76 of 110 laps, but he managed to lead at least 14 consecutive laps four different times in the race. Only Denny Hamlin managed to lead more than five consecutive laps in that race, as he once led for seven consecutive laps early in the race. Kurt would lose the lead during green flag pit stops or to a car on a different pit strategy, but would always make his way back to the lead and would stay there for a long period of time. It's a shame his great performance often gets overlooked because of the Tony Stewart/Brian Vickers incidents that took place in that race, because he might have driven the most flawless race of the entire 2011 season in that race. 716. jabber1990 posted: 03.30.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) you know a list I want to see? a list of the Worst Drivers ever please dont put Danica on it, she hasnt proven to be the worst driver ever yet, she's only ran what? 15 cup races? 717. murb posted: 03.30.2013 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "you know a list I want to see? a list of the Worst Drivers ever" My Top Ten Worst Nascar Drivers 1. Kevin Conway 2. Steven Wallace 3. Buckshot Jones 4. Blake Feese 5. Steadman Marlin 6. Michael Waltrip 7. Jacques Villeneuve 8. JJ Yeley 9. Christian Fittipaldi 10. Stanton Barrett 718. Schroeder51 posted: 03.30.2013 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The five worst drivers to have run at least one Cup series race (in my opinion): 1. Kevin Conway (Okay, that was WAY too obvious) 2. Bill Meacham (Go watch the 1991 Transouth 500 on Youtube and see exactly WHY) 3. Baxter Price (An independent driver who currently holds the record for most career Cup starts without a single top 10 finish, 90-although Landon Cassill is about to break that record in a couple of races) 4. Paul Dean Holt (Another independent driver who had a grand total of 1 top 10 finish in 85 career starts-including ZERO in all 40 starts he made in 1968. That's bad even by independent standards) 5. Jason Leffler (Debated putting Buckshot Jones here, but Buckshot never had a chance to run in good equipment, while Leffler did with Gibbs...he UTTERLY blew that opportunity.) 719. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.30.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Nico. To me, any list with those three in the Top 3 is an acceptable list. Here, I'll elaborate on 4-40 a little bit: T4: Bobby Allison T4: Jeff Gordon T4: Jimmie Johnson T4: Herb Thomas T4: Darrell Waltrip T4: Cale Yarborough (Again, alphebetical order) 11-40: Everyone else 720. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.30.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I don't think it was very smart of MWR to force Mark to back out of the other races for JGR. MWR only goes as far as JGR goes and allows. They kinda made JGR look foolish by forcing them to step back. They will say it was a sponsor issue, but Mikey is a world class sponsor schmoozer, he could have pulled some strings. Don't be surprised to see a downturn in MWR's performance as a result. JGR gave them so much last year to let them get to their level, then they needed a favor (Mark for 5 races) and MWR pulled a power play. Some partner, huh? 721. cjs3872 posted: 03.30.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, you rave about Kurt Busch's performance at Sonoma in 2011, and rightly so, but you forgot to mention one thing in that. At the end of the race, he had Jeff Gordon, the best there's ever been at Sonoma, and quite possibly the best NASCAR driver ever on a road course. Under those circumstances, most drivers might have flinched, even with the best car, but Kurt didn't miss a step, bringing Roger Penske his first NASCAR road race win since Rusty Wallace at Sonoma all the way back in 1996, and joining Wallace, Bobby Allison, and Mark Donohue as those that have won for Roger on a road course in NASCAR. And DSFF, I actually think that, despite the reasoning, the right thing was done by having Mark run the #11 car for only one race, because by putting Mark over in the #11 car, Michael Waltrip would also be messing with what he had planned for his own team. This way, he can have Mark in the #55, as was originally planned, while having Brian Vickers stay warm in the #11 car, as he races for Gibbs full-time in the Nationwide Series, and by having Vickers in the #11 car, Gibbs has one of his own drivers in the #11 car, not a driver from another organization. And I'm not so sure that Mark wasn't being forced on Gibbs, meaning that Gibbs may have wanted Vickers, someone who drives for him in the Nationwide Series, in that car. But no matter the reasoning, regardless of how shallow it might be, I think the right decision was utlimately made as for the driver to fill in for Hamlin in the #11 car until he comes back, hopefully not until Pocono for his and the team's sake. 722. David posted: 03.30.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "2. Bill Meacham (Go watch the 1991 Transouth 500 on Youtube and see exactly WHY)" If you don't remember, this was the race where Michael Waltrip had the field covered before his team screwed up in the pits. As bad as he was, he should get credit for at least being out front at DARLINGTON, one of the toughest tracks. 723. Schroeder51 posted: 03.30.2013 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As much as I dislike Michael Waltrip, I don't think he's quite "bottom 10 NASCAR drivers ever" material. If you really look throughout NASCAR's history, you can find plenty of drivers who've done a lot worse than he has in his career. Now if we're talking about "worst driver to have made at least 500 career starts", that might be a different matter... 724. murb posted: 03.30.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you don't remember, this was the race where Michael Waltrip had the field covered before his team screwed up in the pits. As bad as he was, he should get credit for at least being out front at DARLINGTON, one of the toughest tracks." I definitely do give him credit for that race. But overall, he makes my top ten worst drivers list just because in his 25+ years in the sport, it seems like he still hasn't learned anything. Over the past couple years in his few races, he's made numerous dumb mistakes (like wrecking unassisted in the 2012 Duel race or causing multiple wrecks at plate races during the Tandem Draft Era). And as for the majority of his career prior to that, I think it speaks for itself. Yes, he won four Cup races (including two Daytona 500s), but they were with DEI, who, to quote Clint Bowyer, had cars "a monkey could win in" on those types of tracks at that time. You would think that after that many years in the sport, Michael would show at least a little bit of improvement as a racer. But in my opinion he just never did. That's why it will be interesting to see how Danica turns out over the next several years. Will she be able to gain the ability to perform well on non-plate tracks? Or will she be like Michael and not learn anything for the long haul and just stick around because of her name? 725. Eric posted: 03.30.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, You are right about Kurt and that is why I had a problem mentioned post 714 with JG24FanForever had Kyle ranked 31st on top 40 cup drivers of all time without have Kurt Busch on it. 726. Paul posted: 03.30.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael Waltrip was a very underrated road racer. I believe his best track based on his average finish was Sonoma as a matter of fact. Back in 2004, in a race where everyone pretty much followed Jeff Gordon the entire time, Mikey finished 4th, behind only Jeff Gordon (road course king), Jamie McMurray (also a very underrated road racer), and Scott Pruett (very good road course ringer). Heck, his own teammate Dale Earnhardt, Jr. couldn't even finish in the top ten. As a matter of fact, Junior only has three road course top tens (all at Watkins Glen) and none since 2005. As bad as Mikey was at short tracks and intermediates for most of his Cup career, his road racing abilities and good record at the restrictor plate tracks late in his career keeps him out of my bottom top ten. He's definitely at the bottom of my list of the 14 (and soon to be 16) drivers who have made at least 700 Cup starts, but not of all-time. And cjs, Kurt Busch beat Jeff Gordon by over 2.5 seconds at Sonoma 2011, so he probably didn't have time to feel pressure from Gordon. Now had the race gone another 5-10 laps, he might have because Gordon was coming for him in those final laps, but I wouldn't say he was feeling the pressure from Gordon just because he was so far ahead of him at the end. By the way, that's a very underrated Jeff Gordon comeback race. He started one row behind Kurt Busch in 13th place, spent a large portion of the race outside the top 25, and was able to work his way up through the field and come home with a solid runner-up finish. I think a strategically-timed pit stop prior to the final caution helped him get to the top ten, but the fact that he took a car that was running outside the top 25 midway through the race all the way up to 2nd is damn impressive, even for him. 727. The Final Gear posted: 03.30.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott Pruett belongs on a Worst NASCAR drivers list. He was utterly terrible, especially for all the hype behind him. That cooled all prospects of bringing in a road course/sports car driver to race in the Cup Series. 728. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.30.2013 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Cjs, I agree with all your points about how taking Mark from the 55 car would mess up their routine. You are definitely correct. BUT............ Like I said, MWR owes a whole lot to JGR for their performance and will need to rely on them in the future. I just think it is unwise, especially after JGR made the big announcement, to pull this move. And I have a conspiracy theory related this. As we all know, SHR is struggling this year. And the quick blame is on Danica for wasting resources, and that certainly doesn't help. But back in 2009, Rick had a young promising up and comer named Brad Keselowski under his umbrella and wantted to keep him. He looked to SHR since his "inn was full". Tony scoffed and Brad went to Penske. 3 years later Brad and Penske stared their juggernaut right in the face and beat them for the title, forcing them to stumble so badly they even lost second place. Now their cars are simply off the pace. Coincidence or punishment? 729. Schroeder51 posted: 03.30.2013 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just for fun, the remainder of my Top 10 worst NASCAR drivers to have made at least one start in the Cup Series: 6. Buckshot Jones (To be fair, as I said, he never really had any good equipment in his Cup career, did get a Top 10 finish at Dover for the Stavola Bros. after they were no longer relevant in NASCAR, and did have good results in the Busch Series...but he was SO damn crash happy in his short NASCAR tenure it's hard not to include him.) 7. Eddie Bierschwale (Did win an ARCA race...but had just 1 top 10 in 117 career starts, and only earned that one because Kyle Petty relief drove for him after failing to qualify for the '89 Daytona 500 (again, to be fair, he never drove in anything approaching good equipment). He is one of the few drivers who Jeff Gordon has never finished ahead of in his career, though!) 8. Rick Newsom (Another independent driver like Baxter Price who never earned a single career top finish despite having made 82 career starts over 14 different seasons) 9. Earle Canavan (Basically, for the same reasons as Price and Newsom) 10. Delma Cowart (Attempted 76 Cup races and only managed to qualify for TWENTY-ONE of them, including 37 DNQs in his final 40 Cup attempts. But to be fair, Cowart seems to have been quite the fun-loving guy and quite a character...) 730. jabber1990 posted: 03.30.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Schroeder51, i've never heard of 7, 8, 9, and 10 731. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.30.2013 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Schroeder, that list of suck can only have one more driver to be more thorough: Gary Bradberry 732. Paul posted: 03.30.2013 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "had just 1 top 10 in 117 career starts, and only earned that one because Kyle Petty relief drove for him after failing to qualify for the '89 Daytona 500" I think that's a testament to how good Kyle Petty was in his prime. Not only did he bring a car home in 10th place as a relief driver, but he did so in the biggest race of the year for a very small team that hadn't had a top ten finish since the '73 Southern 500 when Dick Brooks was driving for them. I'll always consider Kyle as being one of those drivers whose career stats don't do him justice as far as rating his talent is concerned. Had he been with a team that could stand the test of time at being among the best in the sport, he certainly would have won 20-30 races and maybe had a few more realistic shots at a championship. I don't think he would have ever won a championship because he never appeared to me to be driven to be the best in the sport, but his career certainly would have looked better on the stat sheet. "Buckshot Jones...he was SO damn crash happy in his short NASCAR tenure it's hard not to include him.)" When I hear the name "Buckshot," I automatically think of crashes. My favorite Buckshot crash came in a Busch race at Bristol night '97, when he attempted to retaliate on Randy LaJoie after LaJoie sent him into the wall while running in 4th place, swerved at him at a 90 degree angle, and wound up tearing the front bumper off his car in the process. That incident was basically a combination of Earnhardt/Labonte at Bristol '99 (Buckshot moves LaJoie out of the way, LaJoie dumps him in the next turn.), and Vickers/McMurray at Martinsville '11 (After LaJoie wrecked him, Buckshot retaliates with a 90 degree swerve and does even more damage to his own car in the process.) LaJoie ended up getting the last laugh, going on to win the championship that season, but those two had a pretty entertaining rivalry in the Busch Series, with LaJoie often being on the better end of their run-ins. Had he gone by the name Roy Jones (his given name), I don't think we would remember him quite like we do now. But with a name like Buckshot, you almost have to be memorable in some sort of fashion, and Buckshot is definitely memorable in NASCAR lore. But DSFF, Rick Hendrick is the nicest guy in the world. He would NEVER do anything to infringe on one of his cars' performance... ;) On a serious note though, I think MWR would be better served by allowing JGR to use Mark Martin as long as they want, sort of as a "thank you" for helping MWR make leaps and bounds last season and finally become a weekly relevant team. Sure, it would throw a dagger in the #55 car's plans for the amount of time that Denny Hamlin is out, but do you think it was in the #11 team's plans to have their driver taken away from them for possibly six weeks? It's cases like this that remind me of an old saying "If you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." And basically JGR scratched MWR's back all year last season (and possibly hurt their own performance by doing so), and now MWR is repaying the favor in a very small fraction to what JGR did for them. Not a good move to basically bite the hand that feeds you. 733. Paul posted: 03.30.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I wouldn't put drivers that have won NASCAR races on a "worst drivers of all-time" list, unless I made it a "Worst NASCAR drivers with at least one win" list. Buckshot and Mikey were at least good enough to win races in their NASCAR careers, and because of that I wouldn't put them on my worst drivers list. 734. murb posted: 03.30.2013 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Hey Randy, it looks like the 00 blew a tire to cause that one." "Before or after he hit me?" One of the best quotes of all time. Randy Lajoie rules. 735. JG24FanForever posted: 03.30.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch has one of the weakest championships in Nascar history. Kyle's 2008 season is better than Kurt's 2004 by miles. Kyle has more wins (25 to 24) more Top 5's (96 to 91) six 10+ Top 5 seasons to Kurt's three more race's led most (34 to 25) more laps led (8770 to 7168) more short track wins (9 to 7) more road-race wins (2 to 1) more wins in a single season (8 in 2008 to 4 in 2002) more laps led in single season (1673 in 2008 to 958 in 2005) 5 consecutive 1000+ laps led seasons,and Kurt has none. wins at more tracks (16 to 14) A Southern 500 win A Spring Talladega win A Daytona Firecracker 400 win 736. cjs3872 posted: 03.30.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, Dick Brooks drove for Cotton Owens in the 1973 Daytona 500, when he finished third. I think the race you're referring to would be the 1973 Winston 500, when Clarence Lovell finished fourth for Bierschwale. And the list of drivers that drove for Bierschwale in the interim included Johnny Rutherford. 737. Schroeder51 posted: 03.30.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, I actually forgot about Gary Bradberry...I remember him being around when I watched NASCAR when I was younger (1997 and 1998). I always remember him having a habit of being able to qualify pretty well...and then promptly stuff the car in the wall or go right to the back in a hurry and get lapped a bunch of times. He was pretty bad too...although he DID have success in ARCA (although success in ARCA really doesn't mean a whole lot). Now that I think about it, Billy Standridge would have been another good nomination for my list...23 career starts and FORTY-TWO career DNQs (OUCH!) and only one career finish higher than 21st...a 14th place at the 1995 Transouth 400, and that was only because the race was absolutely filled with crashes and he just so happened to survive the carnage. 738. Eric posted: 03.30.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, Your short track wins are misleading because Kurt won at all 3 short track and Kyle only won at Bristol and Martinsville. While you say Kyle's 2008 season is better than Kurt's 2004 season by miles, Kyle did one the biggest collapses ever that season. Kurt also has 5 mile and half track wins compare to Kyle's 4 including a coca cola 600 win. Kurt also won at Pocono 2 times compare to Kyle's zero. While stats on Daytona and Talladega is misleading. While Kyle has win at Daytona and Talladega unlike Kurt in points races, Kurt has more top 10's and top 5's . In 17 Starts at Daytona, Kyle has 1 win, 5 top 5's and 6 top 10's. Kurt has 0 wins in 25 starts at Daytona, but has 10 top 5's and 12 top 10's. Kyle at Talladega in 16 starts has 1 win, 3 top 5's and 4 top 10's. Kurt at Talladega has 0 wins in 27 starts, but has 6 top 5's and 13 top 10's. Based on the amount top 10's and top 5's on the plate track, Kurt is really the better driver and is one of the reason Kyle hasn't won a chase yet. 739. 18fan posted: 03.30.2013 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Aaron's nixed Mark Martin driving for JGR in races that Mark was supposed to drive for MWR, not MWR. As far as the whole Kurt vs. Kyle thing, I think Kurt took a big hit in the mind of some fans because of how much he wrecked while driving for Phoenix Racing last year and his continual radio meltdowns. I think the Busch brothers are just about equal. 740. JG24FanForever posted: 03.30.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Going by the overall points in 2008 Kyle was still third,237 points ahead of fourth placed Greg Biffle. He had a suspension failure in the Chase opener and followed that up by finishing dead last with a blown engine at Dover. Kurt had a better finish to his 2004 than Kyle his 2008. But his 10 Top 5's to Kyle's 17 or Kyle's 8 wins to Kurt's 3 or the 1637 laps led by Kyle to Kurt's 746. Kurt finished fourth in the overall points in 2004. 247 points adrift of Gordon. I like Kyle's road-race sweep+Southern 500+Daytona+Talladega+Dover+Atlanta+Chicago winning season better than Kurt's New Hampshire sweep+Spring Bristol winning season. 741. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.30.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Mark Stahl was awful too. 742. cjs3872 posted: 03.30.2013 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well 18fan, their statistics and overall record in the Cup Series is also just about equal, and though I ranked both in the top 40 on my listing (if I remember right), they were both near the bottom and pretty close to each other, possibly even back-to-back. Each has advantages oever the other. Kyle has been more dominant than Kurt has ever been (except for the end of 2002) and has seemingly won at a greater variety of tracks (Kyle has a Southern 500 win and wins at both plate tracks and both road courses to his record, though oddly enough, all of those victories occurred in the same year, 2008), while Kurt has raced slightly lesser equipment (Roush and Penske vs. Hendrick and Gibbs) and has amassed a similar record. And of course, Kurt has the ultimate trump card over Kyle in that he actually has a championship in the Cup Series to his name. Here's one case where I agree with DSFF's theory about the importance of winning championships. And by the way, Kyle Busch didn't become a dominant driver, especially in the lower series, until he hooked up with Gibbs and Toyota. He was good, but not overpowering until he got hooked up with Gibbs and Toyota, which has an embarrassingly big edge over everyone else in the Nationwide Series, especally in the horsepower department. 743. Paul posted: 03.31.2013 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I said in post 732 that Dick Brooks finished in the top ten for Don Bierschwale in the 1973 Southern 500, not the 1973 Daytona 500. The fact that Kyle won his only major, his only restrictor plate wins, and his only road course wins all in 2008 leads me to believe that he simply had an incredible equipment advantage that season over the other teams, including his own team as both Denny and Tony were considerably slower than Kyle all season. If not for that incredible season, I think Kurt is ranked ahead of him on the all-time greatest drivers list by a wider margin. But as it stands right now, Kyle's advantage in wins, majors, restrictor plate tracks, road courses, and short tracks puts him closer to, if not ahead of, his Cup champion brother Kurt. And Randy LaJoie was awesome. Ranks among the top five Busch Series drivers in series history (I separate Busch Series history from Nationwide Series history.), and was certainly a memorable interview as well. If I remember correctly, he often referred to Buckshot Jones as "Roy Jones," because he didn't think Buckshot was worthy of such a nickname (or something like that). I wish he was still commentating and/or appearing on TV, as I always enjoyed his commentary. Remember a few years ago during a Nationwide race (I think at IRP) when NASCAR threw a debris caution for what looked to be a piece of paper on the track? Marty Reid was explaining "If it had a shine to it, how do you know for sure [whether it was paper or metal]?" And LaHood quickly replied "Binoculars." HA! It's so obvious! 744. Paul posted: 03.31.2013 - 1:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I said in post 732 that Dick Brooks finished in the top ten for Don Bierschwale in the 1973 Southern 500, not the 1973 Daytona 500. The fact that Kyle won his only major, his only restrictor plate wins, and his only road course wins all in 2008 leads me to believe that he simply had an incredible equipment advantage that season over the other teams, including his own team as both Denny and Tony were considerably slower than Kyle all season. If not for that incredible season, I think Kurt is ranked ahead of him on the all-time greatest drivers list by a wider margin. But as it stands right now, Kyle's advantage in wins, majors, restrictor plate tracks, road courses, and short tracks puts him closer to, if not ahead of, his Cup champion brother Kurt. And Randy LaJoie was awesome. Ranks among the top five Busch Series drivers in series history (I separate Busch Series history from Nationwide Series history.), and was certainly a memorable interview as well. If I remember correctly, he often referred to Buckshot Jones as "Roy Jones," because he didn't think Buckshot was worthy of such a nickname (or something like that). I wish he was still commentating and/or appearing on TV, as I always enjoyed his commentary. Remember a few years ago during a Nationwide race (I think at IRP) when NASCAR threw a debris caution for what looked to be a piece of paper on the track? Marty Reid was explaining "If it had a shine to it, how do you know for sure [whether it was paper or metal]?" And LaJoie quickly replied "Binoculars." HA! That statement alone makes him worthy of working in the NASCAR control tower. 745. AveryNH posted: 03.31.2013 - 2:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gary Bradberry has been a running joke between my mum and I for about fifteen years now. I was young but I too remember him wrecking almost every week. Buckshot jones was equally awful. As is Jason leffler. I'm glad people finally stopped giving him good rides. He sucked at Gibbs in 2000 and ol Chip thought for some reason he found his own Casey Atwood in 2001. Ever since I was far from impressed. Especially after his run in 05. What about people like Brent Sherman and his Mattress mobile?? He lasted not even half of 06 in that 49 and was canned in favor for Kevin lepage. Ouch. Oh and cant forget Milka Duno. She's a Citgo sponsored wrecking ball. 746. Bronco posted: 03.31.2013 - 3:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Remember a few years ago during a Nationwide race (I think at IRP) when NASCAR threw a debris caution for what looked to be a piece of paper on the track? Marty Reid was explaining "If it had a shine to it, how do you know for sure [whether it was paper or metal]?" And LaJoie quickly replied "Binoculars." HA!" Lol I remember that, it was at the 2009 Memphis race I believe. 747. Schroeder51 posted: 03.31.2013 - 4:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, I forgot about Brent Sherman too...To be somewhat fair to him, he was thrown into Cup FAR too early, with only about 2/3 of one season in the (then) Busch series to his credit...He was pretty much DESTINED to fail no matter how actually talented he was. Another driver I forgot about was Larry Foyt... I agree with you that Milka Duno is a pretty terrible driver...but she has never made (or attempted) a Cup series race, so I couldn't rank her on my top 10 worst drivers. I probably would in the off chance that she actually DOES attempt to make a Cup race (seeing how she's running in ARCA now, I suppose it's not IMPOSSIBLE...) 748. JG24FanForever posted: 03.31.2013 - 7:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'll replace #38 Ricky Rudd from my list for Kurt Busch since he most certinly belongs. I bungled my list by leaving him off. 749. Benjamin Lowe posted: 03.31.2013 - 7:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) This is the 10th anniversary of Brock Lesnar's infamous shooting star press attempt onto Kurt Angle. 750. cjs3872 posted: 03.31.2013 - 7:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry Paul, I thought you said the 1973 Daytona 500. My mistake. 751. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.31.2013 - 8:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @749 I remember watching that live at my buddy's WrestleMania party. We were all drunk off our asses then we sobered up real quick thinking we just saw somebody get paralyzed. 752. Eric posted: 03.31.2013 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, There is a big reason why Kyle had a big advantage over the other teams in 2008. 2008 was the first full year of the COT. The COT in 2007 was only used in some of the races and that meant some teams were behind. I am also mentioning that because the 99 car in 2008 had 9 wins. In 2008 matter of fact had the 18,99 and the 48 win 24 out 36 points races in cup. Kurt did win a major. He won the Coco Cola 600 in 2010 753. murb posted: 03.31.2013 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have the Busch Brothers as equal too, with maybe a slight advantage going to Kyle just because of overall behind the wheel talent. 754. cjs3872 posted: 03.31.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Paul and murb, I give Kurt the slight edge over Kyle because he's proven himself, not just in the big races, but in 2004, also he looked down the two most prolific drivers in the last 20 years in a championship battle, and never flinched. Kyle never wins that championship that Kurt collected for that reason alone. And although Kyle has more crown jewel wins than Kurt (both such wins for Kyle were in 2008, the Southern 500 and the Talladega spring race), Kurt's been a factor win win more, but like his predecessor in the #2 Miller Lite car, Rusty Wallace, he's only capitaized once, in the 2010 Coca-Cola 600, which he doesn't win if not for a late caution. Another big race Kurt's bagged that Kyle so far hasn't is the All-Star Race, also in 2010. But Kurt has also finished second in the Daytona 500 three times (2003, '05, '08) and may well have won the 2011 Daytona 500, if not for Carl Edrwards moving on him on the last lap, factored in at Darlington more than once, as well as Indy. He just hasn't won those events. But Kurt's championship, given the relatively equal records he and his brother have amassed, especially in slightly lesser equipment, give Kurt the edge over Kyle in my book. After all, Roush and Penske, especially when Penske ran Dodges, were (and may still be in the case of Roush's Fords) somewhat lesser equipment than what Kyle has had with Hendrick's Chevrolets and Gibbs' Toyotas. And the teams were not always top of the line, either. And until Kyle can prove that he can thrive under championship pressure at he highest level, he'll always be a step behind Kurt in my view. Ater all, Kurt's already proved he can thrive under championship pressure, while Kyle has always seemed to buckle under it. While the "expert" commentators never mention it, should it be any surprise that Kyle's best Chase performance (last year) came when he wasn't in it, and thus was under no pressure? 755. JG24FanForever posted: 03.31.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another awful Cup series driver is Steve Kinser. He had an average finish of 35.2 in 5 career starts. All in 1995. He also had 4 DNQ's to his credit. 756. Schroeder51 posted: 03.31.2013 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kinser went into Cup WAY, WAY too fast. He came in with just a pair of Cup DNQs for experience (plus a full season of IROC in which he won a race). He was practically destined to fail...a smarter move would have been for him to run a year or two in the Busch Series. Davy Jones (the IndyCar/sports car driver who would go on to win the 24 Hours of Le Mans the next year) was in the same rookie class as Kinser and pretty much suffered the exact same fate as a result of being thrust into the Cup series with almost no stock car experience whatsoever. Loy Allen is another driver who had a pretty terrible Cup career...Won 3 career poles in his 1994 rookie season (including the pole for the Daytona 500) but failed to qualify a whopping TWELVE times that year...He was also injured three times in his short Cup career, twice in the season finale at Atlanta ('94 and '96) and once at Rockingham in the spring of '96 that caused him to miss the overwhelming majority of the season. ...We could really go on forever with drivers who had really crummy Cup careers! 757. AveryNH posted: 03.31.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah poor kinser was just god awful. I feel like he was thrown into that cup ride way too soon and like a rabbit in front of some hungry wolves, He was picked apart and eaten alive. Some other bad drivers Andy Houston who did squat in Cal Wells #96 McDonalds Ford in 2001. Hell his teammate Craven won a race that year in similarly horrible equipment. Hideo Fukuyama who drove for Travis Carter in 2002 and 2003. Granted he's a phenomenal road racer (le mans class winner) he underwhelmed me to say the least. And finally Chad Little. I can only name one good run he ever had in the cup series. Texas 1998. Other than that it was mediocre performances week after week. He was a decent Busch series driver at his best. Why he ever ran so long in the cup series, let alone in Roush's cars is far, FAR beyond me. 758. JG24FanForever posted: 03.31.2013 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) How about the greatest drivers to never win in Cup? Most Top 5 finishes without winning: Elmo Langley 63 Top 5's G.C. Spencer 55 Top 5's Neil Castles 51 Top 5's John Sears 48 Top 5's Cecil Gordon 29 Top 5's Jimmie Lewallen 28 Top 5's Tommy Irwin 23 Top 5's Ted Musgrave 20 Top 5's Joe Ruttman 19 Top 5's Larry Thomas 18 Top 5's Who do you guy's consider to be the greatest non-winner? 759. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.31.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Elmo Langley and his 2 cup wins are extremely offended. 760. murb posted: 03.31.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chad Little was okay in Cup, but he was definitely a career Busch racer. If he would have stayed there for his whole career a la Randy Lajoie and Jason Keller he probably could have won a championship. I think Little was way better than Kevin Lepage when they were at Roush together though. Lepage was by far the worst driver on that 1998-2000 Roush lineup. After he replaced Musgrave in the 16 about halfway through 1998, his tenure in that car was just terrible (other than a few good qualifying efforts and a handful of top tens). So I definitely think that Chad Little did better than Kevin Lepage did at Roush. 761. cjs3872 posted: 03.31.2013 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FF, you can scratch Elmo Langley off that list, as he actually did win. In fact, he won twice on short tracks in the mid 60s. But among drivers that never won, I would list Joe Ruttman, Mike Skinner, and Todd Bodine at the top of the heap, giving Skinner the nod as the greatest never to win a Cup race. After all, Skinner holds the all-time record for poles by a non-winner with six and is the only non-winner ever to lead more than 1,000 laps. Granted, he was in Richard Childress Racing equipment, but his record among those that never won a race was the best. 762. JG24FanForever posted: 03.31.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Elmo Langley and his 2 cup wins are extremely offended." I'm stupid. 763. murb posted: 03.31.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How about the greatest drivers to never win in Cup?" Ted Musgrave and Mike Skinner are definitely towards the top of my list. Musgrave finished 7th in points in 1995 and easily could have won some races during his time at Roush. And Skinner definitely would have won some races at RCR if he would have had a little luck (Spring Atlanta 2000 comes to mind - he dominated the race but then blew up with like 25 to go). Hell, Skinner was even leading the points for a couple races early in 1999. So he definitely is one of the best to never win in Cup. And I know he's still currently active in Cup, but Dave Blaney also should be on any "Best Non Cup Winners" list. If Craven and Kurt take each other out for good at Darlington 2003, Blaney wins. And if he doesn't have a problem in the 2001 Spring Atlanta race, he might have won that one too. 764. 13 posted: 03.31.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica will run Nationwide Talladega looks like, read the part where he talks about working with Danica Patrick http://hometracks.nascar.com/node/8996 765. AveryNH posted: 03.31.2013 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Musgrave easily deserved multiple wins. He just never quite closed it out. 1995 Darlington and Martinsville races spring to mind. As was the case with Skinner who was so dominant at the Spring Atlanta race all weekend. He won the Busch race. And dominated the Cup race only to have his engine blow up. Which in turn set up a memorable finish. Blaney only truly contended for a handful of races. 2001 at Atlanta for instance which was such a heartbreaker but once again set up a great finish. I'm also gonna throw Rick Mast and Kenny Wallace into this debate too. Mast ran great in 93 I wanna say at the Rock only to lose to Mr. Earnhardt. And Herman also had several second place finishes Most famously of course pushing Dale to his final win at Dega. 766. cjs3872 posted: 03.31.2013 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AveryNH, the race with Rick Mast you refer to would be at Rockingham in 1994, when Dale Earnhardt, Sr. clinched his last championship in grand style. The thing with Mast is that he won the pole for two of the biggest races in NASCAR history, the 1992 season finale, which was Richard Petty's last race and Jeff Gordon's first, as well as the very first Brickyard 400 in 1994. And when I mentioned that Skinner set records for laps led and poles won by a winless driver, which was a major resason I called him the greatest never to win a Cup race, I forgot to mention two other very big facts. First, he won successive exhibtion races in Japan in both 1997 and '98 on two very different kinds of tracks. Also, he won a Daytona qualifying race in 2001, and nearly did it again in a Bill Davis Racing Dodge in 2005. So yes, I think Skinner's the best never to win, and now that I think about it, it's not even that close. 767. murb posted: 03.31.2013 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I'm also gonna throw Rick Mast and Kenny Wallace into this debate too." For sure. I wish Mast would have gotten a shot in really good equipment in his career, because I think he definitely could have made some noise. Same with Kenny too. He did a great job in the 1 car filling in for Steve Park when he was injured (getting one of those 2nd places that Avery mentioned at The Rock in Fall 2001). I think it would have been cool to see DEI start a fourth car for him after that. I think he could have done at least as good as Park did in his heyday at DEI. 768. JG24FanForever posted: 03.31.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My Top Five Non-Winners in Cup: 1. Ted Musgrave 2. Kenny Wallace 3. Hut Stricklin 4. Joe Ruttman 5. Cecil Gordon 769. NicoRosbergFan posted: 03.31.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's cruel for people to not have John Sears, G.C. Spencer, Paul "Bud" Moore, Friday Hassler, and Tommy Irwin in this discussion because of the times that they all should have won races only to break down while leading. 770. AveryNH posted: 03.31.2013 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF is right. John Sears had 48 top fives. And an astounding 127 top tens in just 318 carrer starts. C. G. Spencer had 55 top fives and 138 top tens in 415 starts. Granted there were more races back in their day. Nonetheless still some amazing numbers for a pair of non race winners. 771. Paul posted: 03.31.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I should have specified that while I would rank Kurt ahead of Kyle, I can see why some would rank them vise versa, thanks to Kyle's greater number of wins, majors, restrictor plate wins, short track wins, and road course wins, not to mention his incredible stats in the lower series'. That being said, I agree with all of Cjs' reasonings that Kurt is better. Kenny Wallace had the dominant car at Rockingham fall '01, but was beaten off pit road late in the race by Joe Nemechek and never regained the lead. He also had a really good car towards thr end of the fall Talladega race that year, but kept getting shuffled back in the draft. Chad Little won six Busch Series races and they all came in '95. Twice in his career he was a title contender, in '94 and '95. In '94 he had solid consistency, but lacked speed and wound up finishing 3rd. In '95 he had a lot of speed, but was very inconsistent and finished 2nd in the points with a 50% top ten percentage. Both champions in those two seasons, David Green and Johnny Benson, had both speed and concistency. I would rank Little ahead of Kevin Lepage (another driver who should have made a career in the Busch Series) on a list of best Roush Racing drivers because he did finish 2nd at Texas '98 and did have a top 20 points finish. But in Little's defense, Johnny Benson didn't do anything in Roush's equipment either, yet he had several very good seasons driving for lesser teams, so perhaps Little could have been successful somewhere else (probably not, but who knows). Jason Keller in all honesty deserved a Cup ride. He finished 2nd in Busch points twice, once to Jeff Green (whose '00 Busch season looks a lot like Jeff Gordon's '98 Cup season) and again to Greg Bottle in '02. He and crew chief Steve Addington got off to a great start, winning 4 of the first 12 races, including at Talladega after Stacy Compton made a mistake by pitting one lap after Keller and Kenny Wallace did during the final pit sequence, but went winless over the final 24 races and the spent the final 17 races sitting 2nd in the points behind eventual champion Greg Biffle. Then again, his crew chief was Steve Addington, whose teams always seem to get off to hot starts before fading in the latter part of the season (Yeley in '07, Kyle in '08-'09, Kurt in '20, Tony in '12). I thought he would have been a good addition to DEI in 2004 due to his short track prowess and his past win at Talladega in thr Busch Series, but Pennzoil left after '03, sponsors wanted to sponsor young drivers, and his Busch ride soon became no match for the overpopulated Cup teams. (By the way, is Keller retired now, or is he just pretty much a free agent that would rather run the local short tracks than start-and-park in NASCAR with the sport in the shape it's currently in?) Mike Skinner, Rick Mast, and Ted Musgrave all should have won Cup races back in the '90s (and early '00s for Skinner). I think it's a travesty that Brett Bodine has a Cup win and Todd doesn't, because Todd was a lot more talented than Brett was. Luckily for these guys, they each had a lot of success in the lower NASCAR levels, with Skinner, Bodine, and Musgrave each having at least one Truck championship, and Mast having a number of Busch Series wins. Bodine could have won a Busch championship if he had been with the right team. I remember him winning at Darlington and running top ten in points for the former Herzog-Jackson Motorsports team in '03 (replacing Jimmie Johnson), before the team folded 2/3 of the way into the season. Had his last name not been Bodine, he might have been given a better shot in Cup equipment, because by the time he entered Cup in '94, that name had a bad reputation in the NASCAR garage. Hut Stricklin might have been the best driver without a NASCAR victory in any series. From what I've heard, Robert Yates wanted to put him in one of his cars in the mid '90s, but couldn't find sponsorship for him, and Davey Allison put him in his Busch car a few times in the early '90s. And don't forget about Buddy Arrington when listing the best drivers without a win. Perhaps his best season came in '82 when he finished 7th in the points in a Dodge Magnum, several years after Dodge had pretty much pulled out of the sport. And he had a winning car at Talladega '79, but a bad pit stop late in the race cost him a lap and he wound up finishing 3rd. It's funny how so many drivers without wins are more talented than a few of them who have won at the Cup level, but I guess that just goes to show you how small that window of opportunity is for some drivers. Drivers like Casey Mears, Brian Vickers, and Joey Logano have had very small windows of opportunity at getting a Cup win, and they all succeeded, whereas more talented drivers like Mike Skinner, Todd Bodine, and Ted Musgrave have had small windows of opportunity in their Cup careers, and unfortunately none of them have an official Cup win to their name. But at least they have all had success at some level. I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's better to be remembered for being a great Busch/Truck Series driver than as a mediocre Cup driver. As long as you have success at work level of NASCAR, you'll always be remembered in a good light. 772. Paul posted: 03.31.2013 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, another double post. In my last sentence, I meant to spell "some," not "work." Totally agree with Nick about us remembering the great independent drivers from the past. I'll always consider Neil Castles to be the best independent driver without a win in NASCAR's premier divsion, and others like G.C. Spencer, John Sears, Cecil Gordon, and Buddy Arrington should be among the greatest in that category also. Had those guys been in their prime in the '90s and early '00s when more competitive teams started showing up, they definitely would have won their fair share of races. 773. DaleSrFanForever posted: 03.31.2013 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) For the independents, I'm partial to Cecil Gordon. Should I mention that Cecil is the driver with the last name Gordon who drove a #24 Chevrolet who has been a part of the most Cup championships (6)? Just messing with ya Rainbow Nation (although it is true on a technicality). Gotta get my shots in now cause in 7 days I am gonna have to watch Jeff take the checkered flag for about the 55th time live (he is due at Martinsville). 774. Paul posted: 03.31.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haha good one, DSFF. Although technically Gordon does have 9 championships (4 as a driver, 5 as an owner), but I think it's best if we all just ignore that statistic and just recognize him as a 5-time "perfect world" champion instead. With Denny out of the picture, I'd say Gordon's main competition at Martinsville will be Jimmie, Kyle, Brad, and possibly Clint, Kurt, and/or Junior if everything goes their way. Really looking forward to this race, and it's good to get back to the toots of NASCAR after five straight "New age" NASCAR tracks (and that includes Bristol). 775. joey2448 posted: 03.31.2013 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #717 - "My Top Ten Worst Nascar Drivers 1. Kevin Conway 2. Steven Wallace 3. Buckshot Jones 4. Blake Feese 5. Steadman Marlin 6. Michael Waltrip 7. Jacques Villeneuve 8. JJ Yeley 9. Christian Fittipaldi 10. Stanton Barrett" Oh c'mon Murb, some of these drivers certainly don't deserve to be on the worst Nascar drivers list. Although Buckshot Jones did have a tendency to wreck a lot, he ran competitive in more than one race. And Waltrip did seem to run well at places like Sonoma (a road course!). And Villeneuve, again, a wrecking ball sometimes, has always been a threat at road courses in the Nationwide series. 776. JG24FanForever posted: 03.31.2013 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another awful Cup driver: Dario Franchitti 10 starts 34.3 Avg. finish with two DNQ's Led 1 lap at California Best finish of 22nd in the Spring Martinsville race 9 finishes of 32nd or worse. 777. Eric posted: 03.31.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Dario could have been better than he was in the cup series based on his performance at the night race at Bristol in the Busch/Nationwide series. I think his performance was more of him being rushed into cup and also Chip had junk for equipment in 2008. 778. Schroeder51 posted: 03.31.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dario maybe could have done something had he spent a year or two in the Nationwide or Truck Series rather than immediately getting thrown into the Cup series. Ganassi's '08 cars were mostly junk, anyways, plus he was also injured in a crash at Talladega in the Nationwide Series...Dario didn't really stand much of a chance. Stanton Barrett did have a few good runs while he was running for Roush in the Busch Series in '03...but in typical Jack Roush fashion, he abruptly got canned about halfway through the year. It's a shame because Barrett DID show signs of having some potential... 779. David posted: 03.31.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And he had a winning car at Talladega '79, but a bad pit stop late in the race cost him a lap and he wound up finishing 3rd." With RICHARD PETTY'S PIT CREW!! They left the gas can hanging off the car. That was criminal. I do want to point out that Arrington was the first driver to reach $1 million in earnings without winning a race, in 1983. 780. murb posted: 03.31.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh c'mon Murb, some of these drivers certainly don't deserve to be on the worst Nascar drivers list. Although Buckshot Jones did have a tendency to wreck a lot, he ran competitive in more than one race. And Waltrip did seem to run well at places like Sonoma (a road course!). And Villeneuve, again, a wrecking ball sometimes, has always been a threat at road courses in the Nationwide series." Maybe I should elaborate a little more on my choices. I think Kevin Conway, Steven Wallace, Blake Feese, Steadman Marlin, and Stanton Barrett are pretty obvious, so I won't really go into them. Buckshot might have been good had he been given more time. I'll admit that. But as Schroeder said on his list, it's really hard not to include him because he was just such a wrecking ball. As for Michael, the reason why he makes my list is because he has looked like a full fledged rookie for his entire 25+ year career. Even in his part time plate schedule that he currently runs, he still usually makes some dumb maneuver that shouldn't be made by such a seasoned veteran (like last year in the Duels where he just wrecked himself coming off pit road, or the several times in the Tandem Draft Era where he couldn't figure out that you can't push someone in the left rear in the middle of the corner). 25 years is a LONG time. In my opinion, there's just no excuse for being so bad when you've had SO MUCH TRACK TIME. Yes, he's got good stats at Sonoma, and yes, he has two Daytona 500s and four more total Cup wins than a lot of great drivers do. But he makes my list just because I feel like he hasn't progressed over the last quarter century like he should have. It's just my opinion though. And as for Villeneuve, yeah, he's fast (in my opinion he's not "good" because he's not even won one yet - he always throws them away) on NNS road courses. But that's no wonder. He's a former F1 and CART driver who previously made a living winning races and championships on road courses. I have Christian Fittipaldi (another career road course guy) on my list too due to his brief but terrible Cup career he had for Petty Enterprises, but if he were to get a good NNS (or even Cup) ride for the road courses, I'm sure he would be fast at the road races too, given his experience. But remember Villeneuve's oval races he ran with Bill Davis back around 2007 in Cup and Trucks? That was some of the worst stock car driving ever. So when I put him on my list, I factor those horrifyingly poor performances in with his constant buffoonery in the NNS races. He's taken out so many people and made the Bill Davis Racing/Braun Racing/Penske Racing fabricators spend so much extra time in the body shop that he deserves to be on my list. Of course, this is just my list, Joey. Just my opinions. You're free to have yours too. 781. Eric posted: 03.31.2013 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Christian Fittipaldi was going to be a bad as cup driver not matter if he was rushed or not even if he was going to a better organization that Petty Enterprises. There was a red flag with him in my view. There was few problems with him by the time he was to NASCAR. Christian Fittipaldi as a driver missed 12 races in 3 years because of injuries. I recalled him suffering at least on concussion in CART besides suffering broken legs 2 times in CART career. He past injuries should be a concern because NASCAR didn't has safer barriers at all their tracks in 2003 beside the gen 5 car was 4 years away before its 2007 debut. Christian broke his legs 2 times in his CART career and I think he had concussions also. Christian Fittipaldi was a sold driver in CART, but he was not a star driver in CART despite being in very good equipment. Newman-Haas had very good equipment when Christian was there. I don't know how much not having many wins was caused by injuries. I called Christian Fittipaldi a solid driver because he finished in the top 10 in points 3 times. He even finished 7th in points despite missing 5 races in 1999 and that tells me he had a good deal of talent. He was not like his uncle in terms of capabilities though. Cart was a series that I watched besides watching NASCAR and I know about Christian as a result. His performance in CART told me he couldn't be the next Tony Stewart. At best, Fittipaldi would have been a Casey Mears, but I think he would be more like Scott Pruett in cup for performance. The fact is just because you can do good in open wheel and Sports Carts, doesn't mean you can be a good or great cup driver. 782. Eric posted: 03.31.2013 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When I typed sold, I meant to type solid. I think think Christian wasn't meant to be a full time cup driver despite he could be a road race specialist and that is why I claim that he was going to be a bad full time cup driver. Just because a driver can be good or great at Road Courses, that driver has to solid on ovals in NASCAR for a full time cup ride especially with a driver that broke his legs 2 times in 3 years. 783. murb posted: 03.31.2013 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Stanton Barrett did have a few good runs while he was running for Roush in the Busch Series in '03...but in typical Jack Roush fashion, he abruptly got canned about halfway through the year. It's a shame because Barrett DID show signs of having some potential..." This is true. I just have him on my list because he was another Buckshot-esque wrecking ball for his whole career. Maybe it is a bit harsh of me to put guys like this on my list, but it's really hard not to after all the avoidable contact they've had in their careers. Look at Ricky Stenhouse. When he first showed up, he looked like he was gonna be just another wrecking ball. But Roush (for once - wish it would've happened with Stanton) kept him in the car for the full year, and he turned out to be a great (still a bit "Swervin'", but great) driver. So it's hard for me to exclude guys like Buckshot and Steven Wallace (and even MW, who falls into this category). They all had multiple years in decent equipment to get over tearing stuff up, but they just kept wrecking and making dumb mistakes. 784. Eric posted: 03.31.2013 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just did a check on Christian Fittipaldo, I was right about Concussions with him. Back in 2000, he had his 3rd concussion in 3 years. That sounds like red flag to me if I was a NASCAR owner at a time that not all NASCAR tracks has safer barriers yet. That meant Christian was going to be a health risk at a time when the Gen 5 cup cars were about 4 years away. When Christian did races with Petty in 2003, Jerry Nadeau's career was ended by a concussion. 785. jabber1990 posted: 03.31.2013 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) was Conway ever given any quality rides? 786. AveryNH posted: 04.01.2013 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) You could put Mr. Conway in an Extenze sponsored #2 Penske Ford Fusion. And he'd still find a way to come home in 43rd. i think it was Jeff Gordon who had the gem of "so-n-so is down a cylinder." And Jeff replied "yeah and the 34 is down a driver". That about sums up his potential as a driver right there. 787. murb posted: 04.01.2013 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Conway ran some Busch races for JGR in 2007, but of course floundered in them. Then he went on to screwing (no pun intended) lower level teams (Front Row, Nemco, and RGM) with his scumbag sponsor. 788. Schroeder51 posted: 04.01.2013 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kevin Conway is NASCAR's version of a troll. Enough said. 789. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 1:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @786, that is my personal favorite Jeff Gordon moment. 790. NicoRosbergFan posted: 04.01.2013 - 5:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, it would have been better if Jeff had said "and I'm down a crew chief." 791. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 04.01.2013 - 6:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why dfoes everyone beat down on Letarte he sdid not win much with Gordon but Gordon has to take a lot of the blame.His tentative restarts cvost him numerous victories Martinsville phoenix richmond 2010. He helped Gordon put together comfortably the best season since cup went to 36 races and has turned Earnhardt from an also-ran to a frige title contender. 792. joey2448 posted: 04.01.2013 - 6:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a great Jeff Gordon quote, but which race was that? And murb, yes you are free to your opinions, I just had to question a few of your choices, lol. I just think it's stupid when people bash a driver because they wreck a lot. I mean, look at Stenhouse. And can I assume you've seen all those comments posted on Brad Keselowski's driver page in 2010-early 2011? Everyone was saying he was just taking up space at Penske and will never win another Cup race. What did he end up doing? Some drivers learn and improve, some don't. I mean, hell, even John Wes Townley won the ARCA race at Daytona this year. Even I was joking what the first lap would be like in that race, since he was joined on the front row by Milka Duno. Side note - I can't always remember some things that happened in NASCAR from late-2007 thru 2008, because those were my first two years in college, and I didn't have a TV (or even a computer!) in my dorm room, so it was difficult to watch races sometimes. That's why I don't remember much about Franchitti's 2008 run in NASCAR. The main thing I remember was his Nationwide crash at Talladega. 793. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 8:34 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jjeff bailed Alan's ass out of the fire in this race. He hit the oil slick, pounded the wall 30 laps into a 400 mile race on a wide track and doesn't have him come on in? Jeff should have pulled the Dale Earnhardt Memorial "I'm in" pit strategy when his crew chief said to stay out. Again, I give him huge credit for his ballsy move to cut the rear chain on Jeff's car at Richmond (although not as much credit as I give Jeff for hiis ABSOLUTELY POSSESSED drive through the field). But let me put it this way: I was watching NASCAR from '93-'05. I have seen Evernham and Loomis, and Alan, you sir are no Evernham or Loomis. 794. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 8:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even in bad equipment, good to decent drivers will always show you some sort of potential in their driving. Conway never showed anything. He had just one top 25 finish in his rookie season, a 14th place finish in the Firecracker 400, and that was largely due to all of the crashes that took out such contenders as Ryan Newman, Juan Pablo Montoya, Mark Martin, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch, and Jamie McMurray. His teammates Travis Kvapil and David Gilliland had 8 and 7 top 25 finishes in 2010, respectively. Here's another shocking statistic for Conway: His three best qualifying positions in Cup were all as a start-and-park driver for NEMCO. His best qualifying position in a full distance car is 32nd. Bad driver, through and through. 795. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 8:55 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I cannot believe it has been this long, but 20 years ago today we lost our defending Winston Cup champion. A true owner, driver, and independent, he did something that hadn't been done in generations and probably won't be done again. Even the modern NASCAR hyperbole machine didn't compare Tony's 2011 title to Alan's in '92, that is just how special the original Special K was. Also, 34 years ago today, Bristol had a first time Winston Cup winner. 796. JG24FanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 9:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the 34 is down a driver" quote is #2 on this list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqMK69dG9oY 797. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 11:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have seen Evernham and Loomis, and Alan, you sir are no Evernham or Loomis." This reminds me of a famous remark that Lloyd Bentsen told Dan Quayle at the 1988 Vice Presidential debate, after Quayle had the nerve to compare himself to JFK: "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy." Talk about verbally getting your ass kicked! I was born exactly seven days before that memorable day on November 15, 1992. It was a day remembered for so many things: It was the final race for one legend (Richard Petty), and it was the first race for another (Jeff Gordon). It was a day when six drivers entered the final race with a mathematical chance at winning the championship. Davey Allison entered the race with the points lead, but ended the race looking like a modified car after being involved in a crash while running inside the top ten. And Bill Elliott and Alan Kulwicki gave us a championship battle for the ages, as Elliott won the race, but Kulwicki finished in 2nd and led one more lap than Elliott to clinch the extra five bonus points for leading the most laps. Had Kulwicki not stayed out longer than Elliott during the final green flag pit sequence, or had not beaten Elliott to the line a few times while they were racing side-by-side for the lead, history would look a lot different. That's what made that championship battle so great, as it came down to not just the final race, but whomever scored more bonus points in that final race to decide the champion. Elliott wins the race, Kulwicki wins the title. All-around great storybook ending, and further proof that you don't need a goofy points reset to set up a classic championship battle. As a matter of fact, had there been a Chase back in '92, Kyle Petty would have won the title by over half a race's worth of points, robbing us of the great points battle we ended up seeing. This day truly is deserving of the title "The Day." It wasn't sad and gloomy and didn't have hundreds of people cashing in on it by writing books and making movies about it, but it had everything a true race fan wants to see: A championship that gets settled in the final race of the season, several drivers with a shot at the title, the emotions of seeing fan favorite and points leader Davey Allison crash out, and having an epic championship battle between a powerhouse team driven by Bill Elliott and an owner/driver team driven by Alan Kulwicki. And best of all, the underdog won. Add-in the fact that one legend was making his first start and another was making his last, and this day goes down in history as the greatest day in NASCAR history. By the way, I was seven days old when this race occurred, and #7 was Alan Kulwicki's number. 798. Schroeder51 posted: 04.01.2013 - 11:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why does my birthday have to be the day Alan Kulwicki died? That just makes me sad knowing Alan died when I was far too young to ever physically see him race... I wonder how the rest of Alan's career would have turned out had he not died so suddenly. I don't think he would have won another championship, to be honest (I couldn't see him beating Dale Earnhardt or Jeff Gordon head to head in a championship battle) but I do think he would have definitely won several more races (he would probably have had 15-20 career wins) and a lot more poles (I could have easily seen him winning 50+ poles in his career). My guess is that he would have retired somewhere around 2000-2003 or so, and would probably own one of NASCAR's more successful teams. But alas, thanks to the plane crash, we can only speculate "What if?" 799. Schroeder51 posted: 04.01.2013 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was a little over seven and a half months old when Alan won the 1992 championship. Obviously, I have no memories of that race (...does ANYONE actually remember anything that happened before they were two years old?), but that would have been spectacular to watch live. Watching that race just makes me sad that NASCAR has decided that great championship battles simply cannot happen without the Chase... Alan also won the first race that ever happened in my lifetime, the 1992 Food City 500. I was all of four days old. That is one race I REALLY hope someone posts to Youtube someday. Besides being the first race of my whole lifetime, it was also the last race at Bristol as an asphalt track. 800. Eric posted: 04.01.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schrader and Paul, I remembered Alan's death on that day too well since I'm much older than you two. Alan was very popular figure in Wisconsin at the time of his death. When Alan died, people when stunned to put it mildly. Alan died when I was in middle school and I know classmates that met Alan Kulwicki on Alan Kulwicki Day just a couple months before death. Alan Kulwicki Day was in January 1993 with people able to get autographs from Alan with the place being backed. I don't Alan Kulwicki would be very competitive by 2000 time as driver owner even with his engineering degree. I am saying that because being a driver/owner hurt Geoff Bodine, Ricky Rudd, and Bill Elliott. I mentioned Ricky Rudd for a reason. Rudd started to struggle after the 1997 Brickyard 400 win despite having a win at Martinsiville the next year. One of Rudd's problems was he became a driver owner when organizations were becoming multi car teams. That was one of the things the caused the decline of Morgan Mcclure. Alan would have double the issues because he his teams were underfunded and the rise of multi car teams if the fatal airplane crash didn't happen. 801. Eric posted: 04.01.2013 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I viewed 1993 as a whole as tragic year for NASCAR. That year NASCAR lot Alan Kulwicki and Davey Allison. I honestly think some things of NASCAR would have been different in competition. I remembered cjs3872 mentioning the past that 1993 was weak in competition without knowing why. The fact was the deaths of Davey Allison and Alan Kulwicki had something to do with it. The other thing was Darrell Waltrip's last win was in 1992 and age was catching up to Harry in 1993. The deaths of Kulwicki and Davey Allison caused a chain reaction of events in terms of where drivers went and would have changed NASCAR history. I think Davey's death did a lot more in terms of a chain effect than Alan did for driver changes. I am mentioned that because Ernie Irvan almost died at Michigan in 1994 and the fact is Ernie's near fatal crash wouldn't have happened if he was on a different team. Geoff Bodine bought Alan's team when Alan died and Hooters left NASCAR. If Alan didn't have that crash, Geoff wouldn't have left Bud Moore in late 1993 and Hooters wouldn't have left the 7 team. The meant Lake Speed wouldn't be in the 15 in 1994. From a Sponsor standpoint, Exide Batteries wouldn't have been a sponsor of the 7 team in 1994. The fact is if Davey didn't die, Ernie Irvan wouldn't have went to Yates, but to Hendrick instead. I am saying that because Rudd was leaving and I am sure Rick would pick Ernie over Terry Labonte. That meant Ernie wouldn't have his near fatal crash at Michigan in 1994. That meant Terry wouldn't have his 1996 cup championship, but Ernie might have had multiple cup championships instead with Hendrick. That also means Dale Jarrett wouldn't have been hired by Yates to race in the 28 car in 1995 unless Yates was planning on a second team. That meant it was likely the Dale Jarrett would sticked with Gibbs and meant Bobby Labonte would still been with Bill Davis or go to another team. If Bobby was still with Bill Davis in 1995, Ward Burton wouldn't been with Bill Davis in late 1995 with a win at Rockingham. Bobby Labonte probably wouldn't have got the amount of cup wins as he did since he wouldn't have been with Gibbs in 1995. It would have been a big question mark what would have with Ward Burton if Bobby was still in the 22 car in 1995. 802. cjs3872 posted: 04.01.2013 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, there's another thing to add to that as to why 1993 was not the most competitive of years. That is that the Fords were, for the most part, uncompetitive for the first two-thirds of the season. In fact, through July if my memory serves me, Ford had only won three races all year and only one since mid-March, which was Geoff Bodine's win at Sonoma. Add that to the fact that Darrell Waltrip became less competitve because he went away from Hendick's engines, Harry Gant became less competitive not just because of age, but also the loss of Andy Petree to Dale Earnhardt's team, and Junior Johnson went an entire season without winning a race for the very first time and Bill Elliott never even led a race until the second half of the season, and you can see why 1993 was not the most competitve of years. Even Davey Allison was arguably having his worst season, competitive-wise, before his plane crash, though he nearly won at Loudon the day before his plane crash. The Fords were down as a group, and the GM teams took full advantage of it, since they had the hammer in '93. 803. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ford won 10 races in '93, and 7 of those 10 came in the final 12 races, between two different drivers (4 wins for Mark Martin, all in a row, and 2 wins for Ernie Irvan; the other 5 wins all came for Rusty Wallace.). In fact, the first three Ford wins that season all turned out to be the last one for three key people involved. Davey Allison's win at Richmond and Morgan Shepherd's win at Atlanta the week after turned out to be the last wins of their respective NASCAR careers. And Geoff Bodine's win at Sonoma turned out to be the final win for car owner Bud Moore. Add-in the fact that only 10 drivers won a race all season, and 1993 was a pretty uncompetitive year that just so happened to have a very intriguing championship battle. 804. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoever said '93 wasn't a competitive year has no idea what they are talking about. I know Dale and Rusty won 16 of the 30 races, but those are two first ballot HOFers in their prime. Morgan Shepherd won his 4th and final race of his long Cup career with the Woods which is, to date, their 3rd to last win. Bodine won Bud Moore's final race in an EPIC battle in the final laps at Sears Point holding off and denying Ernie a road course 3peat. Kyle Petty won his 2nd to last race in an ass thwomping at Pocono. Ernie himself won the Winston 500 when Dale made an erro on the last restart, getting too far out, and Ernie pounced, then after joining Yates, made the field look sick at Martinsville and Charlotte. Davey himself got his last win at Richmond, hung around in 3rd and even 2nd in points at times despite the 28 team being slow out of the gate. Mark was there week in and week out for the first part of the year but couldn't break through for the win before ripping off 4 straight races, joining elite company historically. And although he didn't win a race that year, there was this 21 year old rookie (who looked 12) who ran up front a lot, but just hadn't quite figured out how to put 500 miles together yet (don't worry, he would eventually to say the least). Also, the Daytona 500 had a stunning 2nd time winner for a year old team lets move on. 805. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of the 10 drivers who won in '93, only two of them finished outside the top ten in points, and one of them was Davey Allison who tragically died midway through the season. Also, only five drivers finished the season with 10 or more top fives (one-third of the season), only four drivers had multiple wins (and maybe only three if Davey doesn't die and Ernie stays in the #4 car), and only two drivers had 20 or more lead lap finishes (two-thirds of the season). Plus, the Fords just about dropped off the map until the final 12 races after finishing 1-2-3 in the points in '92. Morgan Shepherd and Geoff Bodine's wins may have been surprises (a combined 5 top fives between them in '93), but it was an overall uncompetitive season as far as diversity at the front of the field. 806. Daniel posted: 04.01.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 44 entered at Matinsville: -Mark Martin in the #11 -Ken Schrader in the #32 -Regan Smith in the #51 -Brian Vickers in the #55 807. Daniel posted: 04.01.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 40 entered in the truck race: -Grant Galloway in the #07 -#1 TBA -#6 TBA -Kevin Harvick in the #24 -#30 TBA -Devin Jones in the #35 -Jonathan Davenport in the #50 -Erik Jones in the #51 -Caleb Holman in the #75 -Kenny Habul in the #93 -Chase Elliott in the #94 808. jabber1990 posted: 04.01.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) hey, DaleSrFanForever, Paul, and Shroeder y'all are around my age, do you rember the show on Fox "NASCAR racers?" 809. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't say the Fords any problems being competitive in '93 that weren't explainable. First off, Dale and Rusty happened to be driving GM cars. As Rusty showed the next year, he could be just as productive in a Ford. Another forgotten subplot to '93 was that Penske spent the middle of the season negotiating to get Pontiac to step it up. They wouldn't, so Penske had already decided to go to Ford by the end of the Summer, so they couldn't have been too bad. Despite their lame duck status with their manufacturer and the impending move to Ford, the #2 Miller car still performed at an extremely high level, a championship level. Sound familiar? The only difference is that Brad won the title and Rusty finished 2nd. Why? Because Dale > Jimmie. Put the '93 Earnhardt in the 48 car for 2012 and he runs Brad off the track. And if '93 Rusty was in the 2012 Miller car, Jimmie and Chad would have literally curled up in the fetal position for Homestead and not even raced. Other factors: the 28 team had a terrible hangover from their physically and emotionally draining '92 Winston Cup championship battle loss (repairing wrecked cars, Davey getting hurt ovr and over then losing his brother, The Winston Million, then the Winston Cup in heart wrenching fashion), the 11 team was sunk in the off season when Junior Johnson allowed his personal feeling to ruin everything and fired Tim Brewer, and the 6 team was bad fast, they were just snakebit until Watkins Glen (one of the most underrated races and wins ever). 810. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Watkins Glen (one of the most underrated races and wins ever)." My most fondest moment from watching that race was when Kyle Petty hopped into Dale Jarrett's race car after he crashed out, and as he was pointing towards Ernie Irvan's damaged race car from the "passenger seat," Ernie "swerved" into the #18 car and just about took Kyle's arm off. Haha, there was a lot more brotherly love among the NASCAR drivers back in those days. 811. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the 6 team was bad fast, they were just snakebit until Watkins Glen" That could be the next top list that we do; the top ten most snakebit drivers in NASCAR history. Off the top of my head, here's my top ten: 1. Jerry Nadeau - Spins out on the first lap and then wrecks a few laps later at Sonoma '98 after starting 2nd to Jeff Gordon, runs out of gas while leading at Atlanta '01, loses his HMS ride after 11 races in '02 after a terrible start, breaks the rear gear while on his way to a win at Sonoma '02 in a 3rd Petty car, suffers a career-ending injury at Richmond '03 and has never been able to adapt to his post-racing life. 2. Steve Park (Injured at the start of his rookie season that delayed his progression, injured again three years later just when he was becoming a top ten driver. Sadly is often forgotten thanks to the media popularity of his teammates Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and Michael Waltrip.) 3. Mark Martin - Finished 2nd in the Cup points a record five times. Holds the record for most modern era wins, top fives, top tens, and poles without a championship. Had the best average finish in '90, led the Cup Series in laps led in '98, and had a career-rebounding year in '09, but couldn't beat three of the greatest drivers ever to win the title in the end. Always seemed to be caught up in "The Big One" at the restrictor plate tracks, and may have had the worst luck among the all-time greatest drivers (His rollover at Sonoma '89 after his rear tire changer mistakenly loosened the lugnuts on the left rear and his pit wall impaling crash while leading at Michigan '12 come to mind.). 4. Davey Allison - Tied for the most Cup wins in '91 (with Harry Gant), but couldn't consistently finish in the top five late in the season to take advantage of arguably the worst points battle ever. Once again tied for the series lead with 5 wins in '92, and once again finished 3rd in the points after six finishes of 26th or worse, including his crash in the season finale while leading the points. Had a championship loss hangover in '93, and was tragically killed in a helicopter crash en route to Talladega to see his good friend Neil Bonnett's son David test. Also lost his younger brother Clifford in a Busch practice crash during the '92 season. 5. Ken Schrader - Any driver who managed to have 3 top five points finishes during maybe the most competitive era in NASCAR history, and only have 4 wins, has got to be snakebit. He didn't even win a race in '94 when he finished a career high 4th in the points; the same year that new teammate Terry Labonte had a career high 3 wins, and young teammate Jeff Gordon began to forget how to crash and ended up winning two of the biggest races in the sport. He also had that dreadful '95 season in which he had an average finish of 20.7, and while he posted a respectable 10 top tens, suffered 9 DNFs, plus another five finishes outside the top 25. Plus, he left Talladega with a giant goose egg over his right eye and a wrecked race car, and wasn't even the most pitied HMS driver after that race. And have I mentioned that he once had part of his thumb cut off? I'll end it with this: I'm 20 years old, and Ken Schrader's last win came before I was even ALIVE. 6. Tim Richmond - Was just starting to learn how to run up front and bring the car home in one piece before becoming sick prior to the '87 season, an illness that turned out to be AIDS. He lived the final year of his life pretty much isolated from humanity before succumbing to the disease in 1989. 7. Jimmy Hensley - Perhaps the best Busch Series driver to never win a championship, having finished 2nd in points three times, including in '85 when he had 3 wins and an average finish of 6.4. Gets his chance at a competitive Cup ride in '93 as Alan Kulwicki's hand-picked replacement, only to lose his sponsor Hooters before ever making a start. Also never got a shot to race for RCR, despite giving them their only pole in '89 (as Earnhardt's relief driver). 8. Hut Stricklin - Made 382 total NASCAR starts without a win. Had the dominant car in the '96 Southern 500 before the Rainbow car passed him with 16 laps to go. His only remotely competitive ride was with Davey Allison's RYR-backed Busch Series team back in '90-'91, and he failed to finish in all six starts. Perhaps the best non-independent driver who never raced in competitive Cup equipment (unless you count Kenny Bernstein's team as being competitive in '95). 9. Geoff Bodine - Entered the sport almost as a pioneer for other Yankee drivers, and exited the sport almost as a joke. Blew a tire at Watkins Glen '89 while running in the top five and went spinning at high speed into the guardrail (wouldn't have happened had the modern day "bus stop" been there). Ran the race of his life at Riverside '87, leading 92 laps from the pole and having that epic duel with Dale Earnhardt during the race, but wound up in 10th. His '94 season was like a rapid heartbeat as he was either winning or crashing out thanks to his Hoosier tires, not to mention getting wrecked by his own brother in the inaugural Brickyard 400 with a car that could have won the race. And of course, his almost tragic accident in the inaugural Truck race at Daytona that sent him flying into the catchfence and rolling over on fire in front of a whole field of Trucks. 10. Rusty Wallace - Had terrible luck at Daytona and Talladega, including his two flips in '93 and getting passed in the closing laps in both Daytona races in '99 after having the dominant car both times. Could have won 1-2 more championships and a lot more wins if he hadn't entered his prime during Earnhardt's dominance. Honorable Mentions: Dave Blaney - His loss at Atlanta '01 due to losing his rear tire was a total heartbreaker. Getting turned around (and somehow saving his car) at Talladega '11 was a heartbreaker as well. And I'll bet that if he was sponsored by Home Depot, NASCAR would have ended the 2012 Daytona 500 immediately after the fire and given Blaney his 1st career Cup win. Jeff Gordon [the 2008-present version] - Has anyone had more bad luck over the last five years than Jeff Gordon? From his three back injuries at Las Vegas '08, Dover '09, and Watkins Glen '09, to going from REAL 2007 champion to winning just one race in a 3-year span ('08-'10), to his Wiley Coyote-like 2012 season, to losing his cool at Phoenix, to being given Kenny Schrader's '95 cars for this season, I don't think anybody has had more bad luck than this man. But because of how much good luck he had from '94-'01, I can't put him in my top ten. Carl Long - Anybody who gets fined $200,000 and is barred from entering a Cup garage after an illegal engine used during a non-points race (2009 All-Star Open) deserves their own list. But since this was the only example of Long being snakebit, I decided to leave him off the list. Rick Mast - Loses by inches at Rockingham '94 to Dale Earnhardt and had the dominant car there a year later before the engine blew up. Forced to retire from racing in 2002 due to carbon monoxide poisoning. 812. cjs3872 posted: 04.01.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you said that Ernie Irvan beat Dale, Sr. in the 1993 Winston 500 at Talladega because he got too big a lead on the final restart, which was, in effect, a GWC since it came with 2 laps remaining. Unless I'm mistaken, didn't Irvan beat Earnhardt in the 1991 for exactly the same reason, because on the final restart in that race, which came with 8 laps remainng, Earnhardt got out to a sizeable lead, only to have Irvan catch and pass him at the S/F line the next time around. And 1993 was not that competitive a year, especally compared with 1991 and 1992, since no driver won more than five races during any of those two seasons, yet two drivers won more than five in 1993. 1993 was not a good year for competitive balance, but it was more like the early 1980s or the mid 70s in that there was supreme competition up front, but the top 3-5 cars had a significant edge over the rest of the field. And also, it was mentioned that only two drivers finished on trhe lead lap in at least 20 races. Remember that it was more difficult to stay on the lead lap backthe, and once you got a lap down, you rarely, it ever made it up, though it was ot uncommon for drivers in the top 5-7 to finish off the lead lap and Ernie Irvan nearly lapped the entire field at the fall Charlotte race in just 150 miles, so there were very dominant performances back then that were not canceled out by the rules allowing cars to make up laps under caution like you have now. 813. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dammit, I forget about Neil Bonnett. Replace Rusty Wallace with Bonnett, and have him be #3 on the list. I should have mentioned Ricky Craven at least as an honorable mention as well, maybe even towards the bottom of the top ten. 814. murb posted: 04.01.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jerry Nadeau is definitely the most unlucky driver that I've been able to watch. He should have had at least five career wins. And it's also a shame that Hendrick kicked him to the curb in the middle of 2002 too. He didn't do great in the 25 car, but he did decent and I think could have done even better if he had been brought back for 2003. Definitely better than Nemechek did in that car (I like Joe, but man, other than his Richmond win, he was bad in that car - he did much better in the 01 car that he went to after that - which was also ironically Nadeau's former car). Craven is another one too that should be at least mentioned. He was 4th in points going into Talladega in 1996 (the Spring race where he got injured in a wild catchfence crash), and he was also running really well in the 25 car for Hendrick before getting hurt at Texas in 1997. 815. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) To be fair to Nemechek, he did have a great run at Homestead '02, the same track that tragically took his brother John's life five years earlier in a Truck race. The #25 car had always been the redheaded stepchild of the HMS clan, but that team really went downhill after the #48 team came into the picture, and Nadeau's '02 season and Nemechek's '03 season are further proof of that. 816. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The 1993 Bud At The Glen had just about everything you would want from a great race and broadcast. It might not have every single checkmark people would want, but it has a ton of them. And it has held up extremely well over the years, still captivating to watch nearly 20 years later. And the subplots? Amazing. Lets have a look at some of the bullet points: -A great race. Oh yeah. Good passing throughout the field, as well as the glory days of ESPN when they would show the best battle on the track. Plus the twists and turns were not limited to the road course itself, stratgy twists, unexpected happenings for the lead, and the kind of race that makes you feel legitimate emotion. -A great/stunning finish. You bet your ass! This is where paper stats and box scores can be so deceiving. The race ended under caution. The modern NASCAR hyperbole would point to a race like this and say "our GWC finish implementation prevents bad finishes like the one to this race". And they will be DEAD WRONG. In the waning laps, Mark Martin, the race's dominant driver, was running a distant third (more on this in a second). Up front was Kyle Petty, the surprise winner of the rain shortened '92 Bud At The Glen, leading and looking like he may show it was no fluke by winning the event back to back. Chasing him was the Dominator of that era, Dale Earnhardt, looking for his first road course win after tons of Top 5s and a very strong Sears Point races leading 33 laps before they crashed in front of him. Dale was pressing him, but not super close. Then, all at once, Kyle just loses it in the esses. Even more surprising is that the trailing Earnhardt, the unquestioned master of maneuvering through wrecks (everyone talks about his driving instincts in The Pass In The Grass in the '87 Winston, but what about him missing the Elliott/Bodine opening laps wreck? How did he know to go low there? There is that famous picture of Dale, Geoff, and Bill three wide in perfect unison for a split second only Bodine is backwards. Also, how did he get through that '90 Darlington Spring race wreck that took his buddy Neil out of commission?) plowed right into him! Meanwhile Mark slithered through for the win. What was it with Dale and Watkins Glen? Not only did he never contend for a win there the way he did at Riverside and Sears Point, he made unforced errors that sunk any chance he had of a good finish there in '90, '91, '93, '95, '97, '99, and '00! Dale Earnhardt! -Intriguing running subplot playing itself out again. The dominant on track stories of '93 were "How far can Dale extend his dynasty, '92 was officially a massive fluke", "Rusty is back to domination after a 3 year break", and "What does Mark Martin have to do to win?". Once again Mark had the best car and was leading the bulk of the laps. Just like Atlanta, Darlington, Loudon, and his absolute domination of Michigan before getting kicked on fuel mileage. So once again something goes wrong, he has a flat tire then his team royally screws up the strategy. Another blown race right? Wrong. Luck finally smiled on him and he pulled it out after Kyle and Dale crashed. This was the spiritual grandfather of the Fall Pocono '12 race. It may have been complete luck they got the lead in the end, but after the season they had, nobody complained. Now for a Gordon tangent: It seems like every legend has something they are simply snakebit at. They contend a lot, but either never win it, or get a long overdue win after many years. It is either the Cup championship (Bobby, Mark), the Daytona 500 (Earnhardt, Darrell, Tony, Mark), The World 600 (Cale, Bill, Richard Petty (its true, '75 was a breakthrough), Mark), or the Brickyard 400 (Rusty, Mark, notice a pattern developing here?). There is NOTHING Jeff has been snakebit at. Nothing that outside circumstances have prevented him from doing multiple times. That is what made 2012 so unbelievable to watch. Obviously anytime somebody is snakebit, it is weird to watch. But to see JEFF GORDON have outside factors sink him week after week after week, it was the damn twilight zone. The '97 Bristol Night Race was a LONG time ago, it is something that those of us who watching him from '95 onwards just weren't used to seeing. It was surreal. Jeff Gordon, snakebit? Here is how bad it was: Jeff is regarded as a "lucky driver". Obviously his skill and ability are unquestioned, but as I mentioned, he is the guy that nothing ever happens to. So for him to get the luckiest win of his career at Pocono and NOBODY cried about it and EVERYONE agreed he was due that one says it all. -Truly heart touching moment. You better believe it. It had been a month and a half since we had lost Davey. In the middle of the race Lake Speed who was driving the #28 car for the time, crashed and Benny Parsons instinctively blurted out "Davey Allison" when mentioning the car was in trouble. After everything settled down, Benny gave one of the most heartfelt commentaries I have ever heard. In a subdued voice, he first off apologized to Lake, then he said how much he wished he could say Davey were still in that car and how much he wished Davey were still there. Just a regular man speaking to regular folks watching on national TV directly from the heart, in the moment. VERY powerful. Still gives me chills to listen to. You can hear it in his words and hear it in his voice, he was a man hurting for his lost brothers like we all were. Benny's commentary does NOT get the credit it deserves. How is he not in the Hall Of Fame? Winston Cup champion, Daytona 500 winner, neck and neck with his good friend and longtime partner Ned Jarrett for best color commentator in NASCAR history. God Bless You Benny, thanks for the wonderful memories. -Laugh Out Loud moment. As Paul mentioned earlier, yes. After Kyle crashed out, the race ended under caution. Kyle was a long way from the garage where he wrecked, so he climbed in the passenger window of Dale Jarrett's car and rode back sitting on the floor with no helmet. Ernie Irvan was behind DJ and Kyle waved out the window to him. So Ernie drove beside DJ and gave him one hell of a doughnut, whipping Kyle's head violently. Kyle looked back at Ernie and smiled that electric Petty smile you think of when you think of Richard, Kyle, or Adam. You know all 3 were laughing their asses off the whole time, as were we watching on TV. Back when the drivers could show their character publically. If they did that now, Brian France would have all 3 of their pinky toes sawed off with a rusty steak knife as punishment. -A race with enough stories you could go on all sorts of rabbit trails. If this post have proven nothing else (and it probably hasn't lol) it has proven that. Speaking of rabbits, what is it with Easter time and running over rabbits? All year I have to dodge squirrels, possums, and deer. But rarely ever rabbits. Except around Easter! On Saturday Night before Easter 2000 when I was 16 and had had my license for a few weeks, I was driving home from a buddy's house and I CREAMED a rabbit. Last night I had to swerve my ambulance twice to avoid a streaking rabbit. What the hell? 817. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Jeff Gordon [the 2008-present version]" Sorry bud, no "snake bit" list can ever have Jeff Gordon. True he has had his share these last few years, including the first 24 races of 2012 for which "snake bit" doesn't quite cover it. But that is called things averaging out. One month after his 26th birthday, he already had the 25th anniversary Winston Cup championship, a Daytona 500 win, the first ever Southern 500 3peat, the second ever Winston Million, the inaugural Brickyard 400, and two World 600s. Every other legend had at least one of those that they either chased their entire career and never got or waited forever and a day to get. He had also married a beauty queen at this point. Yeah she turned out to be a conniving manipulative bitch who took him to the cleaners in court (something Rick Hendrick for some odd reason loves teasing him about to this day), but he was totally hitting that! 818. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sorry bud, no "snake bit" list can ever have Jeff Gordon." Technically he didn't actually make the list, only making it as an (dis)honorable mention. ;) "Benny's commentary does NOT get the credit it deserves." Fact. Whenever I see or hear him from one of those old NASCAR clips, he reminds me of that favorite uncle I never had. He was so genuine in his commentary, and always brought real emotion to the telecast. He wasn't fake or contrived like some commentators are, and always put over the sport and the drivers before himself. Listen to him during the '91 Watkins Glen race after it had been announced that veteran driver J.D. McDuffie tragically died during the race after hitting the outside guardrail past the modern day "bus stop." All three commentators (Bob Jenkins, Ned Jarrett, and Benny) did a great job of analyzing the crash while basically praying for McDuffie's health, but Benny made the tragic moment even more touching with his speech just as the cars started rolling again after a lengthy red flag, telling the fans how while none of the drivers want to continue racing in the wake of tragedy, they know they have to because it's their job to put on a show for the fans. He even said that he didn't want to commentate on the race anymore and would rather just sit down and look at Bob and Ned without saying anything. He would close his speech by saying to McDuffie's now-widow over the telecast "Jean, we love you, and we're sorry." He really helped put things in perspective as a commentator, and he will always be missed. "So for him to get the luckiest win of his career at Pocono and NOBODY cried about it and EVERYONE agreed he was due that one says it all." I remember seeing one poster on the Pocono page say something to the extent of "Wow, the race ended early and it seems like everyone unanimously agrees with the finish." I think that all of us, Gordon fan or not, were all pulling for him to win a race in 2012 after such a horrendous first half of the season, and it was only fitting that he won that race in the fashion that he did, with the two leaders getting together in turn 1 and the 3rd and 4th place cars slowing down to avoid the wreck, allowing Gordon to steal the victory. Perhaps that, along with his amazing comeback at Richmond and his "vintage" win at Homestead was the Racing Gods' way of saying "We're sorry." Now if they can do the same thing at Martinsville (with Gordon's "number 1 supporter/critic" in the crowd ;) ), that would be a great apology after yet another bad start to this season. "Kyle looked back at Ernie and smiled that electric Petty smile you think of when you think of Richard, Kyle, or Adam." I miss seeing that Petty smile. Sure, I've seen Kyle laugh and joke around on SPEED (where he's one of the few commentators who I actually enjoy), but it's just not the same as it was when he was driving. They certainly don't make racing families like the Pettys like they used to anymore; ones that are almost universally loved and respected by competitors and fans alike. "Speaking of rabbits, what is it with Easter time and running over rabbits?" I almost hit one the other day as a matter of fact. I don't often see them around where I live, let alone crossing the road right in front of me. It's like they know what time of year Easter is, and so they take advantage of the free publicity haha. As Peter Griffin from Family Guy once said: "Damn long ears, trying to steal Easter from Jesus." 819. cjs3872 posted: 04.01.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you mention in post #816 great drivers that had to wait a long time to win a certain event (if they ever did), and you listed some for the Daytona 500, and I'll being up four more you forgot on that front, namely A.J. Foyt, David Pearson, Bobby Allison, and Buddy Baker. It took Pearson and Allison 15 starts to win the Daytona 500 and it took Foyt a decade of trying to win it, despite two wins in the Firecracker 400, and it took Baker 18 starts before finlly winning the Daytona 500 in 1980, and he was as good as anyone in Daytona history, especially when he had a good car. And it took Pearson and Darrell Waltrip a long time to win the Southern 500. Pearson didn't win it for the first time until 1976 and Waltrip didn't win it until 1992, which was his final Cup victory, and drivers such as Fred Lorenzen, Benny Parsons, and Rusty Wallace never won the Southern 500. Yet, there are drivers not of top-tier quality that seem to have their biggest days on the biggest stages quickly in their careers, with a host of them coming in 2011 with the likes of Paul Menard, Regan Smith, and Trevor Bayne all capturing some of the sport's biggest races for their first career wins, and there's a very good chance that none of them will ever win at the sport's highest level again, but there have been numerous other sub-tier drivers to have their biggest days in one of the sport's biggest events, almost as if they were touched by the hand of fate for that one moment, and that one moment only. 820. Paul posted: 04.01.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, don't forget about David Ragan, who won his 1st race in the 2011 Firecracker 400, which may be the biggest "B" race of the year at a track that holds two Cup races in a season. Given the fact that his team is worse than any team that the other three are currently aligned with, I'd say he has even less of a chance at winning again at the Cup level (although he does seem to have a knack for running up front at the restrictor plate tracks, as seen from his 5.5 average finish at Talladega last year). 821. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.01.2013 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Correction, #1 Gordon Admirer/critic. Over the last 18 years I have been alternately wowed and tortured by him. 822. David posted: 04.01.2013 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "-Truly heart touching moment. You better believe it. It had been a month and a half since we had lost Davey. In the middle of the race Lake Speed who was driving the #28 car for the time, crashed and Benny Parsons instinctively blurted out "Davey Allison" when mentioning the car was in trouble. After everything settled down, Benny gave one of the most heartfelt commentaries I have ever heard. In a subdued voice, he first off apologized to Lake, then he said how much he wished he could say Davey were still in that car and how much he wished Davey were still there. Just a regular man speaking to regular folks watching on national TV directly from the heart, in the moment. VERY powerful. Still gives me chills to listen to. You can hear it in his words and hear it in his voice, he was a man hurting for his lost brothers like we all were. Benny's commentary does NOT get the credit it deserves. How is he not in the Hall Of Fame? Winston Cup champion, Daytona 500 winner, neck and neck with his good friend and longtime partner Ned Jarrett for best color commentator in NASCAR history. God Bless You Benny, thanks for the wonderful memories." I searched YouTube for this and I found the video, but there was nothing like this in it. That is strange. 823. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 1:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) My facts were off a little. If you go to Batalllionfan888's channel and watch 1993 Bud At The Glen part 6 of 14, PJ Jones wipes out Morgan Shepherd right in front of the 28 Texaco car, and Benny says something like "Davey Allison almost got involved" a little past the 2 minute mark. At the 5 minute mark they isolate on the 28 car and Benny, in a subdued and emotional voice, says he made a mistake calling him Davey Allison, apologizes, and says that is Lake Speed. He then says something like "I just see that car and I think of Davey". You can hear the emotion. He talks for a short amount of time, but it is no less emotional. Sorry I made it sound like he gave a grand speech, but again, he spoke regular person language, and by saying that little bit, it spoke volumes. You could hear the hurt in his voice. And actually it was Bob Jenkins who said "we all wish we could say it was still Davey". But still, it was emotional at the time, and emotional to this day. I really don't think something like that could happen in today's NASCAR broadcast culture. Today, they talk down to everyone as if we are watching our first ever race in their never ending search for that new fan. Today, they would have to give a giant speech as to why it was so emotional so the "casual fan" would know why and totally dilute it. In this case they said very little, but they said everything in the world in those few seconds. I miss the old days, I miss Davey, and I miss Benny. 824. Matt G posted: 04.02.2013 - 1:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey folks. I'm headed to Martinsville this weekend for the Cup race. I have been to other tracks (Daytona, Pocono, New Hampshire, Dover, and Chicago) but not Martinsville. For anyone who has experience there, are there any special "Do's" and "Don'ts" for this track? I would appreciate any information you guys have. Thanks 825. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 2:01 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Today, they would have to give a giant speech as to why it was so emotional so the "casual fan" would know why and totally dilute it." Bingo. Nowadays they speak to us in very simple language so that even the biggest dipshit fan can understand what they're saying. Especially the Fox crew, whose entire broadcast is aimed at casual fans. That's one reason why I enjoy the old ESPN crew of Bob Jenkins, Benny Parsons, and Ned Jarrett so much. They knew what they were talking about in the booth, but spoke to you as if you understood what was happening too without bragging about their expertise of the sport. They weren't like the Waltrips, who frequently remind us about how many races they won or how long they were in the sport, or like Larry McReynolds, who rarely goes through a broadcast without mentioning how he used to work with Davey Allison and Dale Earnhardt two decades ago. In other words, they didn't talk about how knowledgeable they were, they showed you every time you listened to them, while at the same time treating the fans as equals and never putting themselves above the product and the drivers in the race (the real stars of the show). They don't make announce teams like those three guys anymore. 826. murb posted: 04.02.2013 - 2:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They don't make announce teams like those three guys anymore." No doubt. Larry, Moe, and Curly (the Fox team) got nothing on Bob, Ned, and BP. 827. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 7:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a TNT segment from a few years ago showcasing the career of NASCAR's "Golden Boy," Fred Lorenzen. One can only imagine what he might have accomplished had he had the desire to run a full schedule and be on the road every week. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWQk_XqJ4fc 828. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 7:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's the clip of Benny Parsons calling Lake Speed "Davey Allison" (2:04), followed by him apologizing for the mix-up and Bob Jenkins saying he wishes Davey was still in that car (5:12): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br1tcJzMcMc DSFF, I'm surprised you didn't list Ernie Irvan (your favorite West coast driver) taking out Geoff Bodine (your favorite "smart mouth Yankee bastard") about 2/3 of the way through the race when he hopped the curb while racing side-by-side with Bodine while going through the inner loop when you listed all the great things that made the '93 Watkins Glen race special. Seems like one of those moments where you would just go "Ernie, you're a genius and I love you." Haha. 829. Anonymous posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (3) no btcc race results? no tc2000 race results? no fia gt, motogp, dtm, wtcc, etcc, porsche carrera cup, ALMS? none of the rally series? "Comprehensive Racing Statistics." Bravo *slow clap* 830. David posted: 04.02.2013 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous, try race-database.com. They have ALMS and MotoGP results. 831. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh I saw that Paul lol. Actually Geoff appeared to run Ernie off the track, onto the curb and spin himself out. And yes, we were beyond blessed to have Bob, Benny, and Ned for so many years. The perfect trio in the perfect era. This was the "we are making broadcasts for race fans, those who aren't race fans will pick it up, they aren't stupid" era. Good times all around. 832. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm headed to Martinsville this weekend for the Cup race. I have been to other tracks (Daytona, Pocono, New Hampshire, Dover, and Chicago) but not Martinsville. For anyone who has experience there, are there any special "Do's" and "Don'ts" for this track?" You picked a good one. Races here are like going to the county fair, and the racing is top notch. Everything is right there in front of you. Just a great place to watch a race. Some of these you probably already know having been to races before, but here is my list. DO- Get some famous Jesse Jones hot dogs they sell at Martinsville. They are quite an experience. Very unique. Don't let the bright red color fool you, they are cooked. And they don't taste like any other hot dog. Depending your taste buds, that is either a good thing or a bad thing (I personally love them). But they are a part of the Martinsville experience, and you want to be able to tell people you had the famous Martinsville hot dog. DON'T- Pass the track to park. You probably already know this. Also, don't park too close to the track. It is located down a hill past a residential development. You can park in the native's yards if you want. Just beware that will cause you to be in the traffic nightmare after the race. Me and Dad park a good two miles from the track and just walk. But we can just get on the road and drive right out afterwards. DO- Wear sunscreen. Even if it isn't hot or if it is cloudy. The track is at an odd angle with respect to N-W-E-S. Depending on where you sit, the sun will bake one side of you, that one side gets all the punishment. If you are on the front stretch like me, it will be your right side. The times I have forgot to put on sun screen for my face, it gives me my "Martinsville stripe", there is literally a giant red sunburnt stripe along my right cheekbone and looks hilarious. DON'T- anticipate anything other than a Jimmie Johnson or Jeff Gordon win. Especially with Denny Hamlin out. This is a good thing or a bad thing depending on who you pull for. Cars change, crew members change, the competition changes, but any win there has to go through those two. And if Jeff wins, hang around for a moment to appreciate it. I know for me, if somebody else wins, I will hang around my seat for a few minutes afterwards to watch the burnouts. But all Jimmie or Jeff wins I have seen, they take the checkered flag and I immediately begin a mad dash for the exits. But this time, if Jeff wins, I will take a moment to appreciate it. I will be cussing under my breath the whole time, but he won't be around forever. Actually that is a lie, I will be cussing out loud. DO- Bring sunglasses. If the sun is out, the aluminum bleachers and all the chrome on the transporters right there in front of you in the infield, they will hurt your eyes. DON'T- Pay too much attention to the weather in the morning. You will be in the mountains. It is usually chilly or outright cold, foggy, cloudy, and sometimes even misting a bit in the morning. That usually burns off quickly. From there it is anybody's guess as to how the day will actually be. Be prepared to freeze, burn up, and everything in between. Ever since they moved this race to early Arpil/late March I have frozen there and I have left extra crispy fried with one hell of a Martinsville stripe. If you have any other questions just ask. 833. Benjamin Lowe posted: 04.02.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Are you taking bud with you to the race. 834. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Shit no! There are a million things I love about going to Martinsville, and one of them is getting to spend a day away from Bud and his antics. And I love cats! 835. cjs3872 posted: 04.02.2013 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I'm not sure I'd expect a win for Gordon, even though Martinsville seems to owe him at least one more. He'll be in the hunt Sunday, and if he's not, you'd really have to question what's going on with the #24 team. But even Jimmie Johnson's not been as formidable as usual, except the obvious case of him winning the Daytona 500. He was terrible at Fontana and wasn't really that good at Bristol, either. This makes me wonder if Kasey Kahne isn't about to become the new #1 driver at HMS this season, since he's been their most dominant driver. The way he won at Bristol was typical of his wins, as he played a waiting game, waiting for the second half of the race to make hs move, as he normally does in his wins. And if not for a speeding penalty in the finale, he would have finished second in the championship behind only Brad Keselowski, and ahead of Jimmie Johnson. Here's another thing, especially for those numerology buffs. Gordon's next win will be #88, matching the number on teammate and rival Dale, Jr.'s car, and if that win comes at either Martinsville or Darlington, it wil truly be a case of eights being wild for him, as it would not only be his 88th win, but also his eighth at either of those two tracks, as seve is the most victories for him at any track. But whoever wins the race Sunday would rather be third inside the last 20 laps than second he's not leading, due to the likelyhood of at least one late caution, in which case, the driver would prefer to be in third place because of the inside line on the restart, because the second place car will be stuck, for all intents and purposes, and lucky not be out of the top five when it's over. 836. JG24FanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My thirtieth birthday is tomorrow:( 837. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ha! Andy Petree when he first got to RCR: Where's y'alls stuff? (Blank looks from RCR's crewmen) Andy: Where in the car's do you keep your nitrus oxide and what additive do you use in your fuel? (More blank looks) Andy: where is y'alls tricks? RCR crewman pointing at the driver's seat: that is our Trick. They didn't even have a setup plate in their shop going into 1993. That is RCR folks. And Dale won 67 races and 6 championships with them? This after 9 wins and a championship with Rod "Sure, I'll Give This NASCAR Thing A Try" Osterlund, and Bud "My Engines Are Less Reliable Than The Acme Products Wile E Coyote Buys" Moore. Greatest ever. If inspection were policed as close as it is today, or if RCR used the "tricks" everyone else was using in his prime there is no telling how he would have done. People can look at paper stats and say "only" 76 wins, just one road course win, low win totals at mechanically demanding tracks like Pocono, Michigan, and the 500 mile marathon days of Rockingham and Dover and think his 7 Winston Cup championships were a bit of a fluke. And they will be dead wrong. Everyone with higher win totals spent the majority of their career's with teams on the cutting edge of the technology of their day. Dale was winning championships well into the engineering era (an underrated but crucial element to Alan's '92 title) with cars set up on a tilted floor with legal cars while everyone else was cheating. Best ever. 838. DavidPearsonFanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like Pearson over Dale for #1. 29 more wins in 102 fewer starts. 3 Championships with 2 different teams in 4 try's. 91 more poles in 102 fewer starts. 23 Dirt track wins in 90 starts 51 Superspeedway wins in 297 starts 27 Short track wins in 162 starts 4 Road-Race wins in 25 starts And David was just so cool. 839. NicoRosbergFan posted: 04.02.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Using that kind of logic, DSFF, you conclude that the greatest ever is Joe Weatherly. 840. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joe Weatherly: Most underrated multi-time champion in NASCAR history. Most great drivers don't drive for nine teams in their entire Cup career, and he drove for nine teams in a single SEASON. That season was 1963, the year he won his 2nd Grand National championship. It's a shame that he never lived long enough to have a shot at becoming NASCAR's first 3-peat champion, thanks to the brilliant idea that drivers don't need a window-like protection on the driver-side door. By the way, Ned Jarrett should have won the 1964 Grand National championship, as he beat Richard Petty in every major statistical category except for laps led (which could be due to the fact that Petty ran two more races than Jarrett). 841. JG24FanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joe Weatherly had 0-24 record against Curtis Turner in 1-2 finishes in the Convertible division. 842. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Curtis Turner is the greatest NASCAR driver below the 20-win mark in Grand National competition. Any driver who can come back after a 4-year suspension and win at Rockingham at 41 years old against the likes of Cale Yarborough, Marvin Panch, and Dick Paschal is nothing short of extremely talented. By the way, wouldn't you guys agree that "Grand National Division" is a more prestigious title than "Sprint Cup Series"? A lot of things were more prestigious in NASCAR in those days, even the title of the premier racing division. 843. JG24FanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Curtis Turner is the greatest NASCAR driver below the 20-win mark in Grand National competition." I think he's the greatest driver with 25 or fewer wins. A lot of people these days don't realize that he was a timber man and part time racer on the side. He never took racing serious(except the Convertible division)because he was all about "the show" and he was all about fun and shenanigans. It is said that he flew over a race that Speedy Thompson was at,and dropped tacks onto the track out of his plane to puncture his tires! He despised Thompson but loved Smokey Yunick and Joe Weatherly like brothers. 844. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It is said that he flew over a race that Speedy Thompson was at, and dropped tacks onto the track out of his plane to puncture his tires!" HA! If I didn't know any better, I'd say that sounds like one of Bruton Smith's rejected proposals to make the races more exciting. Besides, if any driver deserved to have his tires flattened, it was Speedy Thompson (a.k.a. The Ultimate Racing Wingman). 845. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think we sometimes forget that drivers back then weren't racing for the same reasons that drivers today do. Back in those days, racing was simply a way to make money and serve as a platform for fun-loving, blue collar Americans (a.k.a "The Good ol' Boys") to entertain crowds of people. A lot of those drivers were already used to working on cars (and a few of them were also really good at outrunning the cops), so being able to set-up race cars that were capable of going about 100 m.p.h. faster than street cars, and then go race them, was just a fun hobby for a lot of drivers. A few of them made careers out of racing, but a lot of them were hobby racers who basically raced when they weren't working at their regular jobs. I think Curtis Turner is a great example of such a racer. Had the purse sizes in those days been like they are now, you would have seen a lot more drivers make a living out of racing, rather than just do it on the side. 846. JG24FanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are some explanations for the events in the movie Days of Thunder: The "hit the pace car" scene is Harry Hyde telling Buddy Baker to hit the pace car at Martinsville in the 1970's. The "Car Rental" scene between Rowdy and Cole is based on Curtis Turner and Joe Weatherly renting cars,and destroying them,and getting banned from renting cars in South Carolina. The first win for Cole at Darlington,is based on Fred Lorenzens first win at Darlington's Rebel 300 in 1961 over Curtis Turner. Dr. Lewicki's name is a play on Kulwicki. Rowdy Burns is Dale Earnhardt. Cole Trickle's name is a play on Richard Trickle. Russ Wheeler's name is a play on Humpy Wheeler. Russ Wheeler is Jimmie Johnson(even though he wasn't "built" yet.) Cole Trickle was supposed to be based on Tim Richmond but instead became a "prophecy" for Jeff Gordon. Hendrick Motorsports built all the race cars for the movie. Harry Hogge is Harry Hyde(very obviously). Tim Daland is Rick Hendrick. Big John is an amalgamation of Bill France and Bill Jr. 847. Matt G posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank You very much DSFF! I'll be half way between Turn 4 and start/finish so your list is perfect. A very big Gordon fan will be in my party so I could at least live with him winning this race (I think a Clint vs. Jeff showdown [Round 2] is at least possible here). In any casse I'm really looking forward to seeing Cup racing at a short track and the beating and banging it has to offer - Weather looks like it should be decent too so I'm pumped! 848. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The first win for Cole at Darlington,is based on Fred Lorenzen's first win at Darlington's Rebel 300 in 1961 over Curtis Turner." In that TNT segment on Fred Lorenzen I posted yesterday, Lorenzen stated that his goal when he got to NASCAR was to win at Darlington, which he did in the 1963 Rebel 300. He went on to say that that was the biggest win of his career, and he was practically in tears as he reminisced winning at his favorite race track. "Russ Wheeler is Jimmie Johnson(even though he wasn't "built" yet.)" At the time, he was based on Rusty Wallace, but he may as well have been based off of JJ. Who knows, maybe Rick Hendrick lent the producers the materials he eventually used to build the "Emotionless Juggernaut" when he lent them some of his race cars. 849. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Blue Ridge Tower or the Richard Petty Tower? Either way, prepare the right side of your face. 850. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two other Days of Thunder characters based on real people: - Fellow driver Aldo Benedetti was based on Mario Andretti. - Cole's gas man Harlem Hoogerhyde was based on Danny "Chocolate" Myers Also, John C. Reilly, who later played Cal Naughton, Jr. in Talladega Nights, played Cole's car chief (Buck Bretherton). Richard Petty, Rusty Wallace, Neil Bonnett, Harry Gant, and Dr. Jerry Punch all appeared as themselves in brief cameos in DoT. 851. JG24FanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "- Fellow driver Aldo Benedetti was based on Mario Andretti. - Cole's gas man Harlem Hoogerhyde was based on Danny "Chocolate" Myers" Nice catches. 852. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh, and here are two other scenes in the movie based on real events: - The scene where Big John tells Cole and Rowdy they will drive to dinner together is based on a meeting Bill France, Sr. had in the '80s between Dale Earnhardt and Geoff Bodine. - The scene where Cole is told he can not pit because the crew is too busy eating ice cream is based on a similar incident at the 1987 Southern 500 between Harry Hyde and Benny Parsons. It's official. The people who made Days of Thunder had more respect for the history of NASCAR than the people in charger of the sport and in the media today. 853. JG24FanForever posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If drivers/owners/crew chiefs were Comic book characters: Jeff Gordon is Robin Dale Earnhardt is Batman Jimmie Johnson is Superman or Dr. Doom Curtis Turner is Wolverine Richard Petty is Ra's Al Ghul Kurt Busch is The Joker Kyle Busch is Johnny Blaze(Human Torch) John Force is Deadpool Tony Stewart is The Thing Tiny Lund is The Incredible Hulk Rick Hendrick is Lex Luthor Chad Knaus is Braniac Rusty Wallace is The Riddler Ha! 854. Paul posted: 04.02.2013 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie Johnson is Superman or Dr. Doom" Jimmie Johnson would be Bizarro. 855. David posted: 04.03.2013 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It is said that he flew over a race that Speedy Thompson was at,and dropped tacks onto the track out of his plane to puncture his tires!" I heard about that. They eventually "buried the hatchet". Or so we were meant to think. There's a picture of them shaking hands in the NASCAR chronicle. "Joe Weatherly: Most underrated multi-time champion in NASCAR history." I agree, but... "Ned Jarrett should have won the 1964 Grand National championship, as he beat Richard Petty in every major statistical category except for laps led" Rex White should have won the 1961 title, which was actually Jarrett's, so that evens out. But Richard Petty should have won the 1963 title. Honestly, in terms of statistics, Little Joe shouldn't have been within five miles of the trophy when it was awarded. In only one less start, Weatherly had 11 less wins, 10 less top fives, and four less top tens. 856. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.03.2013 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Dale would definitely be Batman. The dark anti hero image, no super powers, all guts, brains, and striking fear in his opponents hearts, by day a very successful businessman, that badass looking vehicle, and the mentor to the Boy Wonder. 857. JG24FanForever posted: 04.03.2013 - 12:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm thirty now. I feel the same as I did when I was twenty-nine:) 858. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 12:52 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff Gordon = Wonder Boy. Robin = Boy Wonder. Haha that's awesome! If only Dale had been in his prime when Gordon was in his. That would have made for some great moments both on and off the track between the "Man in Black" and his "sidekick." They could have done some great "Batman & Robin-like" commercials between those two. One that could have worked would be to show the two of them wake up in the morning in the same house, get dressed and ready to go to the race track to the tune of the Batman theme song. Gordon would then beat Dale out of the house and hop into the black #3 "Batmobile" sitting in the driveway, but before he could start the car, Dale walks up, grabs Gordon's shoulder, and says "Wonder Boy, move over and let a real man drive this black car." Then before the commercial ends, Gordon is whining about how Dale always gets to drive the "Batmobile" as he's riding shotgun, to which Dale replies "Well I just think it would be pretty uncomfortable for you to drive a car with my foot shoved up your ass," as Gordon is left speechless. Another good one that sadly didn't have a chance to happen would be to air a commercial after the 2001 season with Dale walking up to Jeff and saying "Congrats on your 4th NASCAR championship, Wonder Boy. You're now halfway to breaking my record of championships." Gordon then says "Well now that I'm a 4-time champion, maybe you'll stop calling me Wonder Boy and start calling me Wonder Man." Dale then says "Hmmm...well I like the 'Wonder' part of that nickname, but I'm not so sure about the 'Man' part. Maybe I'll start calling you 'Wonder Guy' for starters and see how I like it." Then after a brief sponsor advertisement within the commercial, it ends with Dale walking off by saying "Well I've gotta run. See ya later Wonder Boy," to which Jeff says "But...but Dale, I thought we had an agreement!" Dale then says "Whudja say, Wonder Boy?," and Jeff just says "Ah nothing." Hahaha, there could have been so many more great comedic moments between those two and their universally opposite personalities and lifestyles. It makes me sad knowing that we'll never get to see those two together on or off camera again, but it was sure fun while it lasted. 859. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Happy birthday JG24! Haha, you know whose else's birthday is today? None other than Curtis Turner's "tacky" friend Speedy Thompson. Oh the irony. 860. BON GORDON posted: 04.03.2013 - 1:22 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Happy Birthday JG24....I turned 24 back in February. Best number ever! 861. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.03.2013 - 1:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) They sort of had a Batman and Robin commercial in '95 for the legendary Monte Carlo commercial where Jeff is sitting in the pits with Terry and Darrell and Jeff asks them if they find Dale's black Monte Carlo intimidating. They talk about how cool his car is before Darrell reminds them Dale's first racecar was pink (which is true) leading to Jeff's famous "No Way!". The irony is that is the year Jeff became a cross between Batman, Superman, Spiderman, and the New York Yankees. 862. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 2:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's probably my all-time favorite NASCAR commercial. Jeff's reaction was priceless. "The irony is that is the year Jeff became a cross between Batman, Superman, Spiderman, and the New York Yankees." You want some more irony? There was actually a crossover Batman and Spiderman comic called "Batman/Spiderman: Disordered Minds" that was first released in September 1995, about the time when Jeff Gordon all but wrapped up his first NASCAR championship. The title of that comic is appropriate considering how "disordered Jeff's and Dale's minds were from each other, and the timing of this comic was just right. By the way, whenever Spiderman and Batman rode together, Batman was always behind the wheel and Spidey was riding shotgun. ;) Here's another reason why this Jeff Gordon/Spiderman comparison makes a lot of sense: I generally pull for the underdogs in NASCAR, but my favorite driver is Jeff Gordon, who is anything but an underdog (unless you totally blacked out during his '95-'07 reign on the sport). And I've always preferred the DC Comic superheroes to the Marvel superheroes, yet my favorite superhero is Spiderman, a Marvel superhero. Yep, I love this comparison. 863. DavidPearsonFanForever posted: 04.03.2013 - 7:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) We may no longer have the great personality of Big E with us,but we do still have the great David Pearson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q0jWyCApIA 864. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.03.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Pearson is cool as hell. I was so disappointed he wasn't at Darlington last year, and I hope he is there this year. Last year I bought a tan Darlington Raceway hat and wanted to get all the legend's autographs. I also had pit passes. Although I was thrilled to get Richard Petty to autograph it and also take a picture with me, and I somehow finally caught up to Cale Yarborough after stalking him in the garage forever and he kept disappearing. I was kinda bummed David and Bobby weren't there. I would like to get them to sign it too along with Darrell and Jeff. Like I said, The Silver Fox has done to the NASCAR fans what he did to his competition, left us guessing. I can't argue with him being #1. Although he drove for Holman Moody and the Woods during their days at the sports elite, neither ever looked as good as they did with David and his cigarette behind the wheel. And he pretty much made Cotton Owens a legend much like Dale did for Richard. 865. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.03.2013 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Dale had a couple of really good commercials with people riding shotgun. One was the glory era ESPN Ride Along commercial with the guy in the back ("Your dog might wanna get his head back in the window", "Really", "Yeah") and "Pass that guy", "Okay, Okay, Okay!". The other was in 2000 with June riding beside him telling him how to drive, with Big E saying "I'm having trouble hearing you, my ears are clogged with my 7 Winston Cup championship riings". Schooled motherf****r, schooled. 866. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those ESPN Ride Along commercials were always really cool. I especially love the one with Kyle Petty driving with The King acting as the "backseat driver," basically criticizing everything Kyle was doing. That shrug that Richard gave after Kyle told him to come up front if he thought he could do any better was EPIC! 867. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I took the liberty of going through every NASCAR Cup season and seeing how I think should have been champion, whether they deserved it or not. Note that I didn't use a points system for this, simply pure instinct. 1949: Red Byron 1950: Lee Petty 1951: Fonty Flock 1952: Tim Flock 1953: Herb Thomas 1954: Lee Petty [2] 1955: Tim Flock [2] 1956: Buck Baker (I know we always talk about Herb Thomas losing the title thanks to Speedy Thompson's intentional wreck in the season finale, but Baker beat him in every major statistical category and deserved the title.) 1957: Buck Baker [2] 1958: Lee Petty [3] (Fireball Roberts likely would have won it, but I can't award a title to a guy who ran just 1/5 of the schedule.) 1959: Lee Petty [4] 1960: Rex White 1961: Rex White [2] 1962: Joe Weatherly 1963: Richard Petty 1964: Ned Jarrett 1965: Ned Jarrett [2] 1966: David Pearson 1967: Richard Petty [2] 1968: David Pearson [2] 1969: David Pearson [3] 1970: Richard Petty [3] 1971: Richard Petty [4] 1972: Richard Petty [5] 1973: David Pearson [4] 1974: Richard Petty [6] 1975: Richard Petty [7] 1976: David Pearson [5] 1977: Cale Yarborough 1978: Cale Yarborough [2] 1979: Richard Petty [8] 1980: Dale Earnhardt (By a very close margin over Cale.) 1981: Darrell Waltrip 1982: Darrell Waltrip [2] 1983: Bobby Allison (I might be a little biased on this one towards Bobby, as Darrell might have been more deserving.) 1984: Darrell Waltrip [3] 1985: Bill Elliott (I can only ignore those 11 wins by "Awesome Bill" for so long, even though Darrell was more consistent.) 1986: Dale Earnhardt [2] 1987: Dale Earnhardt [3] 1988: Rusty Wallace (Very slim margin over Bill.) 1989: Rusty Wallace [2] 1990: Dale Earnhardt [4] 1991: Dale Earnhardt [5] 1992: Alan Kulwicki (I debated between he and Davey, and decided their similar stats, along with Kulwicki's equipment disadvantage and consistency broke the tie.) 1993: Rusty Wallace [3] 1994: Dale Earnhardt [6] 1995: Jeff Gordon (By a very slim margin over Dale.) 1996: Jeff Gordon [2] (Same with Bill's '85 title, I can only ignore an 8-win advantage over the real life champion for so long.) 1997: Jeff Gordon [3] 1998: Jeff Gordon [4] 1999: Dale Jarrett 2000: Bobby Labonte 2001: Jeff Gordon [5] 2002: Sterling Marlin 2003: Matt Kenseth 2004: Jimmie Johnson 2005: Tony Stewart 2006: Jimmie Johnson [2] 2007: Jeff Gordon [6] 2008: Carl Edwards (Although I do think Jimmie did a great job against Carl considering the equipment advantage Carl had.) 2009: Jimmie Johnson [3] 2010: Kevin Harvick 2011: Carl Edwards [2] 2012: Jimmie Johnson [4] (Please don't hate me for this guys.) - 8 championships: Richard Petty - 6 championships: Dale Earnhardt, Jeff Gordon - 5 championships: David Pearson - 4 championships: Jimmie Johnson, Lee Petty - 3 championships: Rusty Wallace, Darrell Waltrip - 2 championships: Buck Baker, Carl Edwards, Tim Flock, Ned Jarrett, Rex White, Cale Yarborough - 1 championship: Bobby Allison, Red Byron, Bill Elliott, Fonty Flock, Kevin Harvick, Dale Jarrett, Matt Kenseth, Alan Kulwicki, Bobby Labonte, Sterling Marlin, Tony Stewart, Herb Thomas, Joe Weatherly Honestly, several of those titles in the 1950s should have had co-champions, split between Lee Petty, Herb Thomas, and Fonty Flock. Petty could have won another 2-3 championships in that era just from a statistical standpoint. Fireball Roberts probably would have won the 1958 title had he run the full season, but I can't award a title to a guy who only ran 10 of the 51 races. And as much as I wanted to list Fred Lorenzen and Curtis Turner as champions, their best part-time Grand National seasons were simply not as good as the drivers who I listed as champions. I said yesterday that Joe Weatherly was the most underrated multi-time champion of all-time. But based on my list, that honor would belong to Rex White. I'm disappointed that Bobby Isaac and Terry Labonte couldn't be champions on my list (especially since Bobby Labonte was), but to their credit, the four combined titles that they could have won were lost to four top ten all-time drivers (Isaac lost to Pearson in '69 and Petty in '70, Labonte lost to Waltrip in '84 and Gordon in '96.). By the way, Darrell Waltrip could have won five straight titles from '81-'85, but I decided to give the nod to Bobby Allison in '83 and Bill Elliott in '85. I wonder if I'll catch any flack for having Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon with the same number of championships, with six apiece. Probably not as much as I will for having Herb Thomas with just one title (although he could have won a few more in the very strong 1950s era of NASCAR). And even though Brad's average finish was better than Jimmie's and he scored the most overall points in 2012, I awarded the championship to Jimmie because he beat Brad in every other major category. 868. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haha, check out the 11-year streak of either The King of The Silver Fox winning every championship from '66-'76. I just noticed that after I hit "publish." 869. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well that was pretty fun (weird, huh?), so here's my picks for the deserving champions in the Busch/Nationwide Series and the Truck Series. I'm personally barring all Cup drivers from my list, except for Kevin Harvick in 2001 because his full Cup schedule wasn't planned. Busch/Nationwide Series champions: 1982: Jack Ingram 1983: Sam Ard 1984: Sam Ard 1985: Jack Ingram [2] (Beats out Jimmy Hensley by a very narrow margin.) 1986: Jack Ingram [3] (He probably would have won this title had he not been suspended for 2 races for reckless driving in a late model race.) 1987: Larry Pearson 1988: Tommy Ellis 1989: Rob Moroso 1990: Chuck Bown 1991: Bobby Labonte 1992: Jeff Gordon (I'll explain below.) 1993: Steve Grissom 1994: Kenny Wallace (His cars were the fastest, but were very unreliable. He had 6 DNFs, all for mechanical failures.) 1995: Johnny Benson (I debated giving it to Chad Little for the same reason I gave Kenny the '94 title, but decided against it because of large gap in average finish.) 1996: Randy LaJoie 1997: Randy LaJoie [2] 1998: Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (Wins by a very close margin over Matt Kenseth.) 1999: Dale Earnhardt, Jr. [2] 2000: Jeff Green 2001: Kevin Harvick 2002: Greg Biffle (Jason Keller might have won if Steve Addington knew how to finish out a season the way he starts one.) 2003: Bobby Hamilton, Jr. (Tough decision as the top six all had championship-level seasons.) 2004: Martin Truex, Jr. 2005: Martin Truex, Jr. [2] 2006: Paul Menard (Very weak season for Busch Series regulars.) 2007: Jason Leffler 2008: Brad Keselowski 2009: Brad Keselowski [2] 2010: Reed Sorenson (Definitely would have been the top Nationwide regular had he been in the car for every race. He likely would have been the first winless champion too.) 2011: Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. 2012: Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. [2] (This was also a tough decision as the top three drivers all had an average finish in the 7.0 range, but I went with Stenhouse because of his better stats, in spite of his reckless driving.) 3 championships: Jack Ingram 2 championships: Sam Ard, Dale Earnhardt, Jr., Brad Keselowski, Randy LaJoie, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr., Martin Truex, Jr. 1 championship: Johnny Benson, Greg Biffle, Chuck Bown, Tommy Ellis, Jeff Gordon, Jeff Green, Steve Grissom, Bobby Hamilton, Jr., Kevin Harvick, Bobby Labonte, Jason Leffler, Paul Menard, Rob Moroso, Larry Pearson, Reed Sorenson, Kenny Wallace Truck Series champions: 1995: Mike Skinner 1996: Ron Hornaday 1997: Jack Sprague 1998: Ron Hornaday [2] 1999: Greg Biffle 2000: Greg Biffle [2] 2001: Jack Sprague [2] (Mostly because of his huge lead in the laps led column.) 2002: Mike Bliss 2003: Brendan Gaughan 2004: Bobby Hamilton 2005: Todd Bodine (Might have won the title in real life had he driven for Germain Racing the whole season.) 2006: Johnny Benson 2007: Mike Skinner [2] 2008: Ron Hornaday [3] 2009: Ron Hornaday [4] 2010: Todd Bodine [2] 2011: Ron Hornaday [5] (Austin Dillon shouldn't have even won it in real life because he passed about five trucks below the yellow line on the final lap at Talladega, but was never penalized for whatever reason.) 2012: James Buescher 5 championships: Ron Hornaday 2 championships: Greg Biffle, Todd Bodine, Mike Skinner, Jack Sprague 1 championship: Johnny Benson, Mike Bliss, James Buescher, Brendan Gaughan, Bobby Hamilton The 1992 Busch Series championship was a tough decision to make. Any of the top five finishers (Nemechek, Labonte, Bodine, Gordon, Pressley) could have won the title, but I gave it to Gordon because despite having 7 DNFs, his average finish was only two positions worse than Joe Nemechek's, he still led the most laps out of any driver (Cup or Busch) that season with 1,160 laps led. In fact, the difference between his laps led and the combined amount from Nemechek, Labonte, and Bodine, was higher (349) than the total laps that Nemechek and Bodine led all season (241 and 277, respectively). Plus, he only lost the title by 222 points. Had he been able to finish four of the seven races he DNF'd in, and finished in the top 10-15, he would have won the title. 870. NicoRosbergFan posted: 04.03.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Average finish only two positions worse than Nemechek? You say "only"? Are you high? Think about it. Over the course of a year that's over 60 positions. Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous and I'm a Gordon fan. Basically all you're doing is rewarding drivings for being wildly inconsistent, which is inconsistent with what logical deductions demand. 871. 18fan posted: 04.03.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) CBS also had a Batman-themed intro for the 1995 DieHard 500. 872. David posted: 04.03.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with NRF, Paul. "Only" two positions worse? And he lost by "only" 222 points? And then you were saying "if". If you are at the point of saying "if", then the driver probably didn't deserve the title. I'm not trying to accuse you of being biased, but that almost was the impression I got. 873. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I like how you always end your statements denouncing someone's claim "exaggerated" claim about Jeff Gordon by saying "...and I'm a Gordon fan," as if that's supposed to mean that your statement is correct because you're showing off your unbiased opinion. And also, I rewarded Kenny Wallace the '94 Busch title, Bill Elliott the '85 Cup title, and Rusty Wallace the '93 Cup title for those same "flashy, but inconsistent" reasons that you just denounced Gordon for with the '92 Busch title. I hope you feel the same way about me listing those three as you do about me listing Gordon as the '92 Busch champion, because they lost their respective titles for the same reason Gordon lost this title. But whatever, I'm cool with Joe Nemechek being the '92 Busch champion because it gives him the title "NASCAR champion" to his resume, which he deserves. I just think Gordon had a better season that Nemechek (especially from a laps led standpoint), and that's why I listed him the way I did up above. 874. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wasn't trying to be biased on that season, but I'm sorry if I came off that way. I guess I looked at Gordon's abnormally high pole count and laps led total and jumped the gun on listing him as deserving champion for '92. 875. Talon64 posted: 04.03.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) About the 2010 NNS championship, based on their points scored that season, and adjusting Sorenson's for a full season, he would've lost out to Allgaier by 6 points! But if Sorenson had gotten those extra 7 races, it likely would've pushed his averages in a better direction. 21 top 10's but 4 finishes of 34th or worse in his 28 starts for an 11.464 average finish. Without those 4 bad races, his average finish sits at 7.291. Assuming he would achieve that avg fin in the 7 races he didn't run, then it'd push his season average to 10.63 which would've easily beat Allgaier. But anything better than 10th in the 7 races would've pushed him past Allgaier. 876. NicoRosbergFan posted: 04.03.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I do denounce Elliott in 1985, Wallace in 1993, Wallace in 1994, and Gordon in 1996. The better driver won. 877. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "CBS also had a Batman-themed intro for the 1995 DieHard 500." Haha I just watched that. It looked like they were advertising the movie Batman Forever, featuring two of my favorite actors Jim Carrey (as The Riddler) and Tommy Lee Jones (as Two-Face). It seemed kind of random to be featuring movie characters in the introduction of a NASCAR race during its 1990s "Golden Era," but since it was Batman and they were basically hinting that Dale Earnhardt was the Batman of NASCAR at arguably his best race track, I have no problem with it. 878. David posted: 04.03.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And also, I rewarded Kenny Wallace the '94 Busch title, Bill Elliott the '85 Cup title, and Rusty Wallace the '93 Cup title for those same "flashy, but inconsistent" reasons that you just denounced Gordon for with the '92 Busch title. I hope you feel the same way about me listing those three as you do about me listing Gordon as the '92 Busch champion, because they lost their respective titles for the same reason Gordon lost this title." This gives me an excuse to do what I've been dying to do; quantify it! Parentheses denote the champion's finish, deviation, and relevance. Gordon's 1992 Busch season: 12.2 average finish (10.0), 8.4 finish deviation (7.6), 67.74% relevance (83.87%) Wallace's 1994 Busch season: 14.3 average finish (11.6), 12.5 finish deviation (9.3), 67.86% relevance (85.71%) Elliott's 1985 Cup season: 8.7 average finish (7.3), 9.8 finish deviation (7.4), 78.57% relevance (89.29%) Wallace's 1993 Cup season: 9.4 average finish (8.2), 11.7 finish deviation (8.5), 83.33% relevance (86.67%) Based on these three categories--measuring finish, consistency, and team performance--I'd say you could make a good case that all four of the actual champions deserved the title over the drivers listed above. The only one I'd argue with is Darrell Waltrip winning the 1985 title. When you've out-won the other driver 11-3, you should have the title won. There is something clearly flawed with the points system there. 879. jabber1990 posted: 04.03.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) damnit, I missed another conversation, with superheroes and Days of Thunder I honestly thought John C.Riley was also a tire changer in Days of Thunder like he was in Talladega Nights 880. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice job David. Now just do that for every season and we'll find out mathematically who the deserving champion of each season was. Get to work! :) And like I said before, I can only ignore an eight win advantage for so long, which is why I awarded the '96 title to Jeff Gordon (10 wins to Terry's 2) and the '85 title to Bill Elliott (11 wins to Darrell's 3). I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me and saying (for example) Darrell was the deserving '85 champion, or Terry was the deserving '96 champion. And the more I think about it, the more I'm starting to have second thoughts about Rusty being the '93 champion since Dale had solid finishes all year long, as opposed to Rusty who didn't get hot until the final half of the season. You could also make an argument that Mark Martin was more deserving of the 1990 title than Dale Earnhardt because his average finish was 1.4 positions higher than Dale's, and would have mathematically won the title if you add the amount of points he was penalized earlier that season. I didn't list it that way because Dale had almost 3x as many wins as Mark and led about 6x as many laps, but I could see why someone might do it that way. 881. Paul posted: 04.03.2013 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Poor Mark Martin. Even in a season where he had the highest average finish, both in the entire 1990 season and in his own career, he couldn't win the championship, nor could I see fit to list him as most deserving champion on my own list. See why I listed him at #3 on my "Top Ten Most Snakebit NASCAR Drivers" list? It's too bad he had to have his '98 season the same year that Jeff Gordon blew away the modern era record books. It would have been interesting if '98 Mark Martin could have stood toe-to-toe with Dale Earnhardt in 1990, and beaten him and get to call himself "NASCAR Champion," a title he truly deserved. 882. murb posted: 04.03.2013 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Elliott definitely should have been the champion in 1985, in my eyes. 11 wins is just pure domination. I agree with David. That is when you know your point system is flawed. As for the "Jeff Gordon should have been the 1992 Busch Champion thing", if anyone other than Nemechek should have been champion that year it's Bobby Labonte. He only finished 3 points behind Nemechek, so if one little thing would gone differently, it would have been Bobby's. Yeah, Gordon had a lot of laps led that year, but he didn't get the job done as much as the three in front of him did (he didn't complete as many laps and had at least three less top tens than Nemechek, Labonte, and Bodine). So I would understand if you said that Bobby should have won that title, but definitely not Gordon. I think Earnhardt deserved the 1993 Cup title too. He seemed a lot more composed and able to finish things off than Rusty did that season. Oh yeah, and I think I've said it before, but if there is a title out there that Mark Martin "should" have won, it's 2002. Sterling was already going downhill before his injury at Richmond/Kansas, which let Mark, Tony, and Jimmie (and to a lesser extent Gordon and later Kurt Busch) all get into a dog fight for it. If Mark would have gotten aggressive and won just a couple races in those last five (most notably at Rockingham and Phoenix where he led laps and was a contender), he easily would have beaten Tony (who was basically on a roller coaster ride for those last five). 883. Anonymous posted: 04.03.2013 - 11:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nice job David. Now just do that for every season and we'll find out mathematically who the deserving champion of each season was. Get to work! :)" Gladly. I'll start right away. 884. JG24FanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Paul and Bon Gordon for the B-day wishes:) 885. JG24FanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't really think Terry collecting 37 more points is better when Gordon led 1400 more laps and won 8 more races while having the same Top 5 and Top 10 totals. A)Gordon won at ALL four short tracks B)Swept Darlington C)Swept Dover D)June Pocono win E)Summer Talladega win I love Terry and respect him more than just about any driver,but Gordon was better and only lost because of his Evil luck. 886. Paul posted: 04.04.2013 - 1:44 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here's how I'm going to settle this 1992 Busch Series championship disagreement: I'm going to go through every race of that season and rank the top five drivers in points (Joe Nemechek, Bobby Labonte, Todd Bodine, Jeff Gordon, and Robert Pressley) and rank them 1-5 based on their finishing positions amongst each other. I'll tally up how many times they finishing in those five positions, as well as their average finishing position against each other (I hope that made sense.). I'm curious to find out if I had a somewhat valid point earlier about Gordon winning the title, and hopefully this will show who the deserving champion was that season as far as how the top five drivers performed against each other. Daytona: 1. Pressley, 2. Gordon, 3. Bodine, 4. Labonte, 5. Nemechek Rockingham: 1. Gordon, 2. Nemechek, 3. Labonte, 4. Bodine, 5. Pressley Richmond: 1. Labonte, 2. Nemechek, 3. Gordon, 4. Bodine, 5. Pressley Atlanta: 1. Gordon, 2. Bodine, 3. Nemechek, 4. Pressley, 5. Labonte Martinsville: 1. Nemechek, 2. Pressley, 3. Gordon, 4. Bodine, 5. Labonte Darlington: 1. Pressley, 2. Bodine, 3. Labonte, 4. Nemechek, 5. Gordon Bristol: 1. Gordon, 2. Labonte, 3. Pressley, 4. Nemechek, 5. Bodine Hickory: 1. Labonte, 2. Nemechek, 3. Pressley, 4. Bodine, 5. Gordon Lanier: 1. Labonte, 2. Pressley, 3. Nemechek, 4. Bodine, 5. Gordon Dublin: 1. Gordon, 2. Nemechek, 3. Bodine, 4. Labonte, 5. Pressley Nazareth: 1. Bodine, 2. Labonte, 3. Pressley, 4. Nemechek, 5. Gordon Charlotte: 1. Gordon, 2. Labonte, 3. Bodine, 4. Pressley, 5. Nemechek Dover: 1. Pressley, 2. Nemechek, 3. Bodine, 4. Gordon, 5. Labonte Rougemont: 1. Pressley, 2. Nemechek, 3. Labonte, 4. Gordon, 5. Bodine (all five drivers finished in top six) Myrtle Beach: 1. Labonte, 2. Gordon, 3. Bodine, 4. Nemechek, 5. Pressley Watkins Glen: 1. Bodine, 2. Nemechek, 3. Labonte, 4. Pressley, 5. Gordon Volusia: 1. Pressley, 2. Nemechek, 3. Bodine, 4. Labonte, 5. Gordon Loudon: 1. Pressley, 2. Labonte, 3. Bodine, 4. Nemechek, 5. Gordon Talladega: 1. Bodine, 2. Labonte, 3. Gordon, 4. Nemechek, 5. Pressley IRP: 1. Nemechek, 2. Pressley, 3. Bodine, 4. Gordon, 5. Labonte Rougemont: 1. Nemechek, 2. Bodine, 3. Pressley, 4. Gordon, 5. Labonte Michigan: 1. Bodine, 2. Nemechek, 3. Gordon, 4. Labonte, 5. Pressley Loudon: 1. Nemechek, 2. Bodine, 3. Gordon, 4. Labonte, 5. Pressley Bristol: 1. Bodine, 2. Pressley, 3. Labonte, 4. Nemechek, 5. Gordon Darlington: 1. Gordon, 2. Bodine, 3. Labonte, 4. Pressley, 5. Nemechek Richmond: 1. Pressley, 2. Labonte, 3. Nemechek, 4. Bodine, 5. Gordon Dover: 1. Pressley, 2. Labonte, 3. Gordon, 4. Bodine, 5. Nemechek Charlotte: 1. Gordon, 2. Labonte, 3. Nemechek, 4. Pressley, 5. Bodine Martinsville: 1. Labonte, 2. Nemechek, 3. Gordon, 4. Bodine, 5. Pressley Rockingham: 1. Gordon, 2. Bodine, 3. Labonte, 4. Nemechek, 5. Pressley Hickory: 1. Labonte, 2. Bodine, 3. Nemechek, 4. Gordon, 5. Pressley (This race took place the day I was born.) 1st Place Finishes: 1. Jeff Gordon - 8 1. Robert Pressley - 8 3. Bobby Labonte - 6 4. Todd Bodine - 5 5. Joe Nemechek - 4 2nd Place Finishes: 1. Joe Nemechek - 10 2. Bobby Labonte - 8 3. Todd Bodine - 7 4. Robert Pressley - 4 5. Jeff Gordon - 2 3rd Place Finishes: 1. Todd Bodine - 8 2. Jeff Gordon - 7 2. Bobby Labonte - 7 4. Joe Nemechek - 5 5. Robert Pressley - 4 4th Place Finishes: 1. Todd Bodine - 8 1. Joe Nemechek - 8 3. Jeff Gordon - 5 3. Bobby Labonte - 5 3. Robert Pressley - 5 5th Place Finishes: 1. Robert Pressley - 10 2. Jeff Gordon - 9 3. Bobby Labonte - 5 4. Joe Nemechek - 4 5. Todd Bodine - 3 Average Finish: 1. Bobby Labonte: 2.84 2. Todd Bodine - 2.90 3. Joe Nemechek - 2.94 4. Jeff Gordon - 3.16 5. Robert Pressley - 3.16 As you can see, this was pretty much a three driver race for the championship. Ironically, the two drivers who led the five in 1st place finishes amongst each other were 4th and 5th in average finish amongst each other, due mostly because of their lack of 2nd place finishes and high number of 5th place finishes. As a matter of fact, the real champion Joe Nemechek had the lowest amount of 1st place finishes, but made up for it with the most 2nd place finishes and a low number of 5th place finishes. This formula doesn't give you a clear idea as to where they finished in the race (For example, one of Todd Bodine's three 5th place finishes was a 6th place finish at Rougemont.), but it does show you where they were finishing amongst each other. Gordon and Pressley were pretty much either hit or miss throughout the season, Nemechek was consistently finishing in the top 3, and Bodine and Labonte were pretty much all over the place. Upon further review, I'm changing my 1992 Busch Series pick to Joe Nemechek by the same margin he won in real life (1 position). Labonte had the highest average finish among the top five drivers in points, and in real life he had one more win and top ten, and led 152 more laps than Nemechek. Plus, he lost the championship by just 3 points, which could have been prevented had one of his five DNFs either not occurred, or if he could have lasted a few more laps (at Daytona, he retired from the race due to crash damage just six laps before passing Clifford Allison, whose motor blew). That being said, I've got to give it to Joe Nemechek. I did some more research, and while he had the best average finish (10.0) and had just 2 DNFs (tied for 1st among full-time drivers), but most of all, he survived a near-fatal crash in the season-opener at Daytona after his car went aflame due to a busted fuel cell. Luckily he escaped with no major injuries, but did have some burns on his body. He went on to drive the next six weeks, where he managed a 2nd place finish at Martinsville and was 5th in the points. For a driver to go from near-fatal crash, to driving for six weeks with burns on his body, to winning two races, to winning the championship by just one position, I have no choice but to declare him the true 1992 Busch Series champion. My apologies to Joe and any fans of his who felt like I snubbed him earlier today. He was truly deserving of that championship for everything he went through that season, and the fact that he won it by just one position in the end is a testament to how good of a driver and how strong of a competitor Joe Nemechek really is. My mistake for not listing him originally, but in a way I'm glad I made that mistake earlier, otherwise I wouldn't have taken the time to research his '92 season and discover what he had to overcome in order to win the championship. He truly is worthy of being called a "NASCAR Champion." By the way, I believe Todd Bodine and Bobby Labonte were the first two drivers to run up to Joe is order to make sure he was alright after his Daytona crash, and they wound up being his closest championship competition. Go figure. 887. Paul posted: 04.04.2013 - 1:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not being able to list Terry Labonte as a NASCAR champion when I went through all the Cup seasons earlier was probably my least favorite decision when determining who the "real" champion was in each season. Obviously you can make the argument that he deserved both of them, but I just couldn't put him over Gordon in '96 because they had the same amount of top fives and top tens, while Gordon won 8 more races and led over 1,300 more laps that Terry. I probably should have listed him as '84 champion because he had the most top fives and was tied for the most top tens, not to mention his great average finish, but I went with Darrell because he had 5 more wins and 1,150 more laps led than Terry. I probably should have went with Terry anyways since Darrell was far less consistent than Terry was in '84. 888. Paul posted: 04.04.2013 - 2:02 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I love Terry and respect him more than just about any driver" Same here. When I call Jeff Gordon "classy," I mean for his charitable and humanitarian work off the track and for his interviews before and after the race (his on-track persona is generally a different story). When I call Terry "classy," I mean in every aspect of his life; on-track, off-track, in the garage, in his interviews...everything. I still wish he would have paid Dale back for at least one of those last-lap Bristol wrecks, but there's an old saying that goes "It takes more courage to walk away from a fight than it does to fight." If you believe in that statement, then what driver was more courageous than Terry Labonte? 889. JG24FanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 2:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My dad gave me a 1992 Traks Autograph series Kyle Petty,that he's had since 1992. And a 1992 Legends of Racing Curtis Turner 1/43 scale replica of his 1965 Rockingham winning car! 890. JG24FanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 2:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) *I forgot to mention I got them for my birthday. 891. JG24FanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 4:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1972: Richard Petty [5]" I think Bobby should be 1972 Champion. He was,after all,voted American Driver of the Year that season. Led 4343 laps to Petty's 2093 10 wins to 8 12 poles to 3 led the most laps in 14 races to Petty's 3 Bobby led every race except the last. And he didn't lead the last race because Junior didn't want him to lead every race in a season. 892. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 04.04.2013 - 8:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone on this board like or approve of the chase. I personally can't stand it especially when people only get "points" for wins that cross over from the "regular season". 893. JG24FanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 9:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Does anyone on this board like or approve of the chase." Brain France's greatest example of his ineptitude and idiocy. 894. cjs3872 posted: 04.04.2013 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul (#888), you say that Terry should have paid Dale, Sr. back for that 1999 Bristol wreck (why would he have wanted to pay him back for he 1995 wreck, since Terry won anyway?) but chose not to. Ihave news for you. He has said that he intended to back into Dale, but something broke when he was going to do that. And Terry wasn't the only one that got wrecked in that incident, as several other cars were collected. In fact, I don't think Jimmy Spencer was too happy about that, because he tried to wreck Earnhardt at the finish line, and Ricky Rudd, who was also involved in that crash, had a few choice words about the incident. Tony Stewart would probably also have had a few hoice woirds himself, but I don't think he has ever been interviewed about that incident, either the night it happened, or in the years since, and Stewart was also a casualty in that one, and if I'm not mistaken, Sterling Marlin was also in that crash, but also was not interviewed if I recall, and he would not have minced words about Earnhardt, either, since he always spoke his mind about just about anything. 895. David posted: 04.04.2013 - 10:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Gladly. I'll start right away." Actually, strike that from the record. I have other things to do first. 896. David posted: 04.04.2013 - 10:21 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) And happy belated birthday, JG24FanForever. 897. Sean posted: 04.04.2013 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm on Paul's side mostly although I don't agree with EVERY one of his championship decisions, but you already knew that. NASCAR has never had a competent points system, even in its classic seasons. The Latford system was better than what we have today, but only because the chase made the first 26 races largely irrelevant and the dumbed-down 2011 points system removed even the SMALL incremental differences that the top 5/top 10 positions used to have. In a competent points system, the 2nd place driver would score about 80% of what the winner scores, the 5th place driver would score 50-60% and drivers in the back half of the field would score 20-25% of the winner's score or less (preferably nothing, although I can understand for owner's points why you would want to give every driver points). Something like 200-160-140-120-100-90-80-70-60-50-48-46-44-42-40-38-36-34-32-30-29...7 might work (with 6-1 for the 6 fastest non-qualifiers for owner points). I'd add 2 bonus points for each 10% of the race led and a small bonus (2 points or something) for the pole. IndyCar has a points system much like that and the championship battle is usually more compelling than Sprint Cup's (even WITH the chase). I'm not saying the driver who wins the most races should always win the championship (J. Gordon in 1999, Kenseth in 2002, Biffle in 2005, Kahne in 2006, etc... should NOT have...) However, I can't believe anyone would defend a points system that leads to outcomes like 1985 and 1996 where the 2nd place driver had eight more wins. Waltrip at least maybe had a CLAIM on the title since he was consistent on every track while Elliott stunk up the short tracks, but Elliott still deserved it. Labonte had no claim on the '96 title in my mind (definitely should have finished 2nd though) and the points system should have been revamped right then (but NOT replaced by the chase). Labonte in '84 has some claim since DW was so inconsistent and I don't know what I'd do there (it's also impressive Labonte did it with Billy Hagan, who did nothing else with any other driver). 1993? Eh, flip a coin. Rusty won 10 races but Earnhardt won 6 and he was not THAT much more dominant. He nearly doubled Earnhardt's laps led but that was because of his overwhelming short track dominance, and those races have many more laps. The real dominance statistic of note (average percent led) had Rusty at 21.90% to Dale's 18.67%, and Dale was much more consistent from track-to-track. Part of me wants to say Rusty just because his season was derailed by Dale spinning him out and causing him to flip at Talladega; had that not happened I don't think he'd have had 4 DNFs in a row after that. I certainly don't think Dale did it on purpose, but I don't like that that's what effectively settled the championship battle (even though yes, Rusty was still leading the points after Talladega...) Having said that, they have about an equal claim on the title in my mind, and Earnhardt winning that title is fine. 2002? No way you can pick Marlin (that's my biggest disagreement with Paul, although if you're going to award dominance as much as he is in most cases, I'd consider taking Bobby Isaac in 1969 and Johnson instead of Harvick for 2010). Marlin was neither dominant nor consistent that season (it's just that for much of the year everyone else was even less consistent) and had already lost the points lead before his injury. It would have been fun to see, but even if he HADN'T been injured, he probably wouldn't have had any sort of claim on that title. I think Stewart is right. I'll add that 2002 wasn't even Marlin's best season. That was by far and away 1995... I definitely DON'T agree with people who hold this view more extremely, like semi-retired Frontstretch columnist Matt McLaughlin, who suggested a 1000-500-200-100 points system for the first four positions, which I definitely think is asinine. But people whine about conservative points racing all the time yet defend the idea of a points system where the points gaps for the top 5 positions are comparable to the points gaps for the back half of the field (when it's even debatable whether shitty finishes SHOULD receive points). It constantly boggles my mind. Something is wrong when Terry Labonte and Jeff Gordon have the same number of top 5s/top 10s, and Gordon is ahead in every other category of relevance (usually by a lot) and loses the title simply because Labonte's bad finishes were less bad (no, not better; LESS BAD). If the gap between 24th place finishes and 34th place finishes was smaller than the gap between 1st and 5th place finishes (as it should be) that could not have happened. It seems especially odd that the biggest defender of the traditional NASCAR points system is NicoRosbergFan, who seems to strongly prefer F1 and IndyCar, which have (and always have had) much superior points systems. I realize NASCAR's consistency fetish is traditional (except for that bizarre 1974 season), but tradition is not always right. I realize with the kind of points system I would want, Alan Kulwicki would not have won in 1992 and Ryan Newman probably would have won 2003, and I regret both of those outcomes, but I still think in general, it is better to reward the most dominant of the consistent drivers. Yes, SOME consistency is obviously still necessary. A CART/IndyCar-like points system would be greatly superior, and the driver who won the most races didn't always win the title in CART. Al Unser managed to win the 1983 title despite winning only 1 race to Teo Fabi's 4 but Unser was much more consistent, and I'm okay with that. But if a championship contender wins many fewer races, they need to be MUCH more consistent. Terry Labonte in 1996 was not. Matt Kenseth in 2003 maybe was. Jeff Gordon's 1992 Busch season? No way. He was the most dominant driver, but he was nowhere near consistent enough, and he didn't even win the most races (Robert Pressley, who wasn't consistent enough to have much of a claim either). I'm fine with either Nemechek or Bobby Labonte. I might go for Gordon or Pressley if one of them had 8 wins or something, but not with the win totals they had. I'll add that in that era of Busch, there weren't even any lap leader bonuses (Busch and trucks did not add the 5 bonus points until 1998 if I am not mistaken). That would have brought Gordon closer, but still probably not close enough to justify that in my mind. Kenny Wallace's 1994? His laps led total is impressive, but his win total isn't (3). Honestly, both Gordon and Wallace remind me of Geoff Bodine's 1994 Cup season and Jeremy Mayfield's 2000 Cup season where they were both very dominant but outrageously unreliable. They should always be CLOSER in points than they are, but no season like that deserves to win the championship. 898. Sean posted: 04.04.2013 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Average finish only two positions worse than Nemechek? You say "only"? Are you high? Think about it. Over the course of a year that's over 60 positions. Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous and I'm a Gordon fan." I'm with you on this one and don't think Gordon has a claim, but your assumption here is that all positions are created equal, where the gap between the top positions SHOULD BE the same or only slightly more than the gap between the bottom positions. VERY odd for an F1 fan. I think the classic 10-6-4-3-2-1 F1 points system may have been a bit extreme, but I still think it reflects performance better than any points system NASCAR ever had (the current F1 points system is a great compromise). It's funny that NASCAR essentially uses this for the manufacturer's championship (okay, 9 points for the top manufacturer instead of 10, but that's still the F1 points system of the '50s), yet doesn't for the driver's championship. "I do denounce Elliott in 1985, Wallace in 1993, Wallace in 1994, and Gordon in 1996. The better driver won." I'm not with you on 1985 or 1996 (ESPECIALLY 1996). Cool, Terry Labonte managed to finish 27th 7 times while Jeff Gordon finished 37th 7 times! That should TOTALLY be exactly the same as if they had been 6th and 15th! You'd be right if all positions were equal or should be equal, but they shouldn't. "This gives me an excuse to do what I've been dying to do; quantify it! Parentheses denote the champion's finish, deviation, and relevance." Okay, but you also need to include some dominance-based statistics like laps led, average percent led, the traditional core statistics (wins/top 5s/top 10s), and even note whether the driver was competitive on EVERY type of track or only seriously competitive on ONE type of track to provide an entire portrait of a season (no WAY I'd support Kasey Kahne's 2006 season for championship consideration since he was only sweeping up on cookie cutters, for instance...) Having only consistency-based statistics in there is exactly what NASCAR wants. At least with the Latford points system, it didn't ALWAYS go to the driver with the highest average finish (Mark Martin had the highest average finish three times: '90, '97, '02 and never won a title)...without the chase, that would be even MORE likely to happen now. This isn't progress. Yes, I'm beating a dead horse and a dead horse I've beaten many times before but I can't understand why people who whine about conservative, boring points racing (especially F1/IndyCar fans who should recognize that those series have been more exciting lately compared to usual and NASCAR has been more boring in part no doubt due to the former having more balanced points systems than the latter. I don't like that IndyCar this year is giving a bonus point for every driver to lead a lap like NASCAR (that's always been laughable), and I don't like that they've stopped awarding 18th-24th and 25th-33rd the same points which I also thought was superior to keep wrecked cars from reentering the race, and I don't like the qualifying points for the Indy 500 and Iowa, but it's still on balance superior.) Having an extreme points system like 1000-500-300-200-100-90-80-70-60-50 or something would be equally ridiculous especially considering how many drivers luck into wins due to NASCAR's charity rules, etc..., but NASCAR's points systems are about as out-of-balance with regard to consistency as the points system I mentioned in this paragraph would be with regard to dominance. 899. Sean posted: 04.04.2013 - 1:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One last point that I don't think I have actually outright stated before: in my view, wins reflect skill more than consistent finishes do. Consistency just has to do with how lucky you are. Yes, I understand that to a degree you can make your own luck and that the more skillful may appear to look more lucky as a result ("where preparation meets opportunity", blah blah blah), but when the most dominant driver does not win the title (and is deserving), it usually has to do with pure dumb luck. Imagine if Will Power in IndyCar drives like he did in 2010 (when he didn't deserve the title) or 2011 (when he in my mind did but the officialdom preferred Dario) and wins 5 races but once again loses the title by a few points. It could ultimately come down to J.R. Hildebrand's epic brain-fade in the season-opener when he drove over Power's car (after illegally passing Simona de Silvestro under caution to put him in that position in the first place). Freak incidents can decide titles. Winning reflects skill more than consistency does, period. Consistency should be rewarded, but winning certainly should be rewarded more than it is. And yes, I'm well aware how many lucky winners Cup has had in the past five years or so due to strategy races and charity rules. 900. JG24FanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks David. 901. Paul posted: 04.04.2013 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "why would he have wanted to pay him back for he 1995 wreck, since Terry won anyway?" He wouldn't pay him back for the '95 Bristol crash, but he would've had more fuel to pay Dale back for the '99 wreck since Dale had done it once before. "I don't think Jimmy Spencer was too happy about that, because he tried to wreck Earnhardt at the finish line" I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that, as I always thought the same thing when I saw Spencer clip Earnhardt in the left rear after they took the checkered flag. Spencer half-jokingly said in his post-race interview that he was hoping Earnhardt would be penalized one second for that last lap wreck so that he could get the win, and then walked behind Ricky Rudd during his interview and was basically asking Rudd if he thought Earnhardt should be penalized since Rudd himself was penalized for wrecking Davey Allison at Sonoma '91. I know Spencer has said in the past how he doesn't like it when drivers give each other the "chrome horn," as he praised Steve Park for not bumping him out of the way to win the Busch Series race at Bristol night '97, while having the opposite reaction to Kurt Busch's bump 'n' run on Spencer to win the '02 spring Bristol race, so I can't imagine him being happy about Earnhardt wrecking Labonte to win the '99 night race, whether or not he was the eventual runner-up. "Tony Stewart would probably also have had a few choice words himself, but I don't think he has ever been interviewed about that incident" Stewart was interviewed after the race, but he didn't discuss the last lap crash so much as he was showing off his disappointment after finishing 5th after leading a race-high 225 laps. "[Marlin] would not have minced words about Earnhardt, either, since he always spoke his mind about just about anything." His post-race interview after the 2001 fall Talladega race is a great example of this. "Labonte in '84 has some claim since DW was so inconsistent and I don't know what I'd do there (it's also impressive Labonte did it with Billy Hagan, who did nothing else with any other driver)." I was considering changing my 1984 championship pick for these exact reasons. The fact that he won two races, led the series in top fives and average finish, and tied for the series lead in top tens, all while driving for the low-end Billy Hagan team, might be reason enough for me to name Terry Labonte as the deserving champion in '84. "if you're going to award dominance as much as he is in most cases, I'd consider taking Bobby Isaac in 1969 and Johnson instead of Harvick for 2010" I'm cool with that. I went with Pearson in '69 because he had 13 more top fives, 11 more top tens, and had an average finish that was almost half of what Isaac had (5.3 to 10.0). That being said, anyone who would argue for Bobby Isaac being the '69 champion would have a good argument since he won six more races and led over 2,000(!!) more laps than David Pearson did that season. Pearson and Isaac could have been co-champions that season because of how equally dominant they were. And the more I look at the 2010 season, I might have to change my pick to Jimmie Johnson just because he beat Kevin Harvick in every category except for top tens, average finish, and DNFs. And when looking at their difference in wins, and especially in laps led, it's not even close. I think the 2002 and 2003 seasons are prime examples of weak championship battles that were either decided by one driver being less inconsistent than everyone else (Tony Stewart in '02), or one guy making fewer mistakes than everyone else (Matt Kenseth in '03). Here's a look at some weird statistics in those seasons: In 2002, the only driver to reach 1,000 laps led was Dale Earnhardt, Jr., who finished 11th in the points. In fact, the eventual champion Tony Stewart ranked 6th in the season total laps led, and runner-up Mark Martin led 88 laps fewer than Sterling Marlin, who was racing while injured for three raced after his Richmond crash, and then missed the final seven races after his neck injury at Kansas. The win leader that season was Matt Kenseth (5 wins), who finished 8th in the points and didn't even average a 15th place finish. Ward Burton had his only multi-win season, led more laps than Mark Martin, yet finished 25th in the points and averaged a 24th place finish. Among the drivers who competed in every race, I think Tony Stewart was the most deserving of the championship because of his 3 wins and leading the series in top fives, but I still think Sterling Marlin would have won that championship had he not gotten injured twice after a "better than everyone else" first 2/3 of the season. As for 2003, I think Ryan Newman has a great argument for being the champion. He led the series in wins and top fives, and was second in top tens behind eventual champion Matt Kenseth. He also ranked 2nd in laps led, and was about 500 laps behind Jeff Gordon in that category. Matt Kenseth on the other hand ranked 7th in top fives and 11th in laps led (behind winless driver Rusty Wallace), to go along with his one win/25 top ten season. I think Kenseth won the title simply because he never had any bad stretches throughout the course of the season, while more dominant drivers like Newman and Gordon ran into a lot of bad finishes and luck during the '03 season. Newman had 7 DNFs during the season, and even had a string of four consecutive finishes of 38th or worse early in the season. Gordon had 5 DNFs and had a string of six finishes of 24th or worse in a seven race span in the late summer that knocked him from 2nd to 6th in the points. Heck, it took Gordon until race No. 30 to have 3 straight top five finishes, and he still finished 4th in the points. Very odd season to say the least. Both of those seasons could have benefited from a different points system. Matt Kenseth should not have been able to clinch with a race to go in '03 based on how his season went, except for the fact that the more dominant drivers had too much bad luck and bad finishes. If not for his 25 top ten finishes, I would argue that 2003 should be in the same category as '91 and '02, as seasons where nobody really deserved the championship. As for 2002, I think those statistics I showed earlier proves that nobody really deserved the championship. It's a shame that Kurt Busch waited until the final 10 races of 2002 to get hot because I think his season was on track to being a championship season. Stewart won the title because he was less inconsistent than everyone else. Simple as that. 902. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) It looks like Auburn's most recent national title is about to be vacated. Now we can mercifully remove the awful phrase "Cam Newton: champion". Hopefully this will cause his to focus less on loving the smell of his own shit and work on being a good teammate and leader. Hey, I can dream can;t I? 903. cjs3872 posted: 04.04.2013 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sean, you mention a point formula in post #898 of 1000 for winning, 500 for second, 300 for third, etc. and mention how it would nullify the argument that consistency wins championships over winning. To me, that's laughable. In the 1970s, USAC used that exact point system to determine the IndyCar champion, and it got a 1-win champion in 1973 with Roger McCluskey, and most infamously of all, it got a champion in 1978 that didn't win any races at all in Tom Sneva. All that point system does is penalize failure even more than the current NASCAR system does. The only thing that system would do is to get wrecked and disabled cars of the track, which is something I've been calling for for years. And DSFF, as for this whole thing with Auburn cheating, is anyone really surprised? However, I seriously doubt the championship will be vacated. What will likely happen is either the championship will be allowed to stand, or it will be given to Oregon, who Auburn beat in the BCS Championship Game. Frankly, most of the major programs cheat, it's just that Auburn or USC about six years ago actually got caught. But for every one of these programs that get caught, 8-10 programs that cheat don't get caught. That's one thing about basketball programs like UNC, Duke, or Indiana when Bobby Knight ran that program, or football powers like Alabama when Bear Bryant ran things, or Notre Dame, or Ohio State in the last century (especially when Woody Hayes was there), or Michigan, Nebraska, or Penn State. They ran successful programs without having to stoop to cheating, simply because they didn't have to. If a program has to cheat to be successful, then they don't deserve what they've accomplished. It's as simple as that. 904. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I couldn't agree more about the teams that were successful without cheating. The only thing I will say though is one of USC's national titles was simply vacated, as was Reggie Bush's Heisman award. They weren't rightfully given to the 2nd place team or player, just left vacant. Wih evidence mounting (shades of USC's issues), I can see the same thing happening with Auburn and hopefully Cam's Heisman. He needs to be humbled, and apparently officially being a "losing quarterback" isn't doing that. 905. Paul posted: 04.04.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm still upset that the NCAA decided to simply vacate the 2004 College Football National Championship, rather than simply name the Oklahoma Sooners as the National champions since they too played in the National Championship Game. I also hope that they name the Oregon Ducks as the new 2010 National champions since they were the best team that wasn't caught cheating that season. Even though Oklahoma and Oregon lost in their respective National Championship games, I still think they should be crowned champions simply because they were the best team in the nation that didn't get caught cheating in those two seasons. You could do that not by vacating USC's and Auburn's wins in those two games, but by declaring the game a forfeit (or disqualifying the winning team), which would then make the other team the winner of the National title game instead. I'd much rather see that happen than have no officially-recognized champion at all. 906. NicoRosbergFan posted: 04.04.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't forget that Oregon is going to be nailed for violations under Chip Kelly too. 907. Paul posted: 04.04.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's true about Oregon, I forgot about that until Nico's post. I think that's why Chip Kelly bolted. As soon as word got out about Oregon being investigated by the NCAA, he immediately flip-flopped and decided that he had better take his business to the NFL. It's only fitting that he joined the Philadelphia Eagles as their Head Coach. 908. Benjamin Lowe posted: 04.04.2013 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey Jason why don't you just put a plastic bag over Cam's head. 909. Sean posted: 04.04.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sean, you mention a point formula in post #898 of 1000 for winning, 500 for second, 300 for third, etc. and mention how it would nullify the argument that consistency wins championships over winning. To me, that's laughable. In the 1970s, USAC used that exact point system to determine the IndyCar champion, and it got a 1-win champion in 1973 with Roger McCluskey, and most infamously of all, it got a champion in 1978 that didn't win any races at all in Tom Sneva. All that point system does is penalize failure even more than the current NASCAR system does. The only thing that system would do is to get wrecked and disabled cars of the track, which is something I've been calling for for years." The biggest problem there was that all races did not award the same number of points (the longer races awarded many more points), so somebody who got a top five at Indy could (and often did) beat somebody in points who DNFed at Indy and was more dominant in the shorter races. If all races awarded the same number of points, that system would have rewarded dominance, not consistency. I disagree that a system like that would penalize failure more. Every NASCAR points system penalizes failure WAY more by allowing 11th-20th place finishers to score a LOT more points than DNFs. Failure should not be rewarded, and for any well-funded team, a slightly-above-average finish WOULD be considered failure... It would reward winning too much. A system like that awards dominance too much (and when I say that, I mean if all races scored the same number of points), but it does fix the problem where drivers in the middle of the field score WAY too many points relative to DNFs. When I said I preferred IndyCar's points system, I'm referring to the CART and IRL points systems from 1983-present when all races counted the same, not that points system. 910. David posted: 04.04.2013 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Okay, but you also need to include some dominance-based statistics like laps led, average percent led, the traditional core statistics (wins/top 5s/top 10s), and even note whether the driver was competitive on EVERY type of track or only seriously competitive on ONE type of track to provide an entire portrait of a season (no WAY I'd support Kasey Kahne's 2006 season for championship consideration since he was only sweeping up on cookie cutters, for instance...) Having only consistency-based statistics in there is exactly what NASCAR wants. At least with the Latford points system, it didn't ALWAYS go to the driver with the highest average finish (Mark Martin had the highest average finish three times: '90, '97, '02 and never won a title)...without the chase, that would be even MORE likely to happen now. This isn't progress." Okay, I see your points (no pun intended). The thing is, I was proving that the champions were indeed more consistent than the drivers in question, which was what we were discussing. By the way, I enjoyed your article on Motorsports Analytics about raw pace in NASCAR. 911. cjs3872 posted: 04.04.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) See Sean, the reason I believe that NASCAR doesn't try a point system like that, where only a certain number of positions paid points, is that one-third of the field that starts a race have no chance of even finishing in the top 20 in most races, even on a perfect day, as well as the fact that NASCAR has always wanted teams at the back to feel like they're a part of the action. After all, NASCAR was made as much on the backs of guys like J.D. McDuffie, Jimmy Means, James Hylton, G.C. Spencer, and Cecil Gordon as much as it was made on the backs of guys like Petty, Pearson, Yarborough, Baker, Parsons, and the Allison brothers. And let's also not forget that the provisional system, originally devised for the 1976 season, was started not for the top runners, but rather those at the back of the field. And if you reduced the number of spots in the points payout, I can almost guarantee that there won't be enough cars to fill an Indianapolis 500 field at most of the NASCAR races, even the big events, because if you only paid points to the top 20 finishers, I'm not sure more than 30 cars and teams would even show up because there are only 25 quality cars now, at best. That's one big reason why NASCAR has always made it a priority to reward points to ALL drivers that start a race, and make every position important, not just the top positions. Saying that, the current NASCAR system has made it where a race for third is no more important than one for 33rd, in terms of the points payout, and as I've mentioned numerous times, the easy way to fix that is to put more weight on the top positions, and with the current 1 point per position payout, increase it to at least two for the top ten positions. For instance, with 33 points going to the 11th place finisher (11th-43rd is fine as it is), make it two points per position through sixth place, which would get 43 points under my system. Then make it three points per position through second, which would get 55 points, and then make it another five to win, giving the winner 60 points, and the bonus points are fine as it is now. That means that with a possible 62 points for a win under my system, that would be nearly double what the 10th-place finisher would get, as finishing 10th would garner 35 points, plus any lap leader bonus points. Suddenly, trying to run 10th, which a number of teams curently in the top 10-15 in points try to do early in the season, doesn't pay as much as it does now, because a winner would gain about 25-30% more points nder my system than he does now. As it is today, if I had a driver running fourth and had the third place car right ahead of him, I'd tell him that, unless you're sure about getting that position, to stay where he is to make sure of fourth-place points, but if it meant more points for that postion, then I'd tell him to go for it a little more aggressively. 912. David posted: 04.04.2013 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Both of those seasons could have benefited from a different points system." Here are the champions under my points system, from 2002 to 2008: 2002: Tony Stewart (shockingly, he clinched with one race left) 2003: Ryan Newman (again, an early clinch) 2004 regular season: Jimmie Johnson 2004 Chase: Jimmie Johnson 2005 regular season: Tony Stewart 2005 Chase: Carl Edwards (gasp!) 2006: regular season: Jimmie Johnson 2006 Chase: Tony Stewart 2007 regular season: Jeff Gordon (by SO much less than you might think) 2007 Chase: Jimmie Johnson 2008 regular season: Carl Edwards 2008 Chase: Jimmie Johnson (by EIGHT points) 913. JG24FanForever posted: 04.04.2013 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My favorite Motorsports Paint schemes: Jeff Gordon's Chromalusion 1998 Monte Carlo Kyle Petty's Coors Light "Pumpkin" 1995 Grand Prix Jeff Gordon's Baby Ruth 1992 Thunderbird John Force's Castrol GTX "Flame" 1994 Lumina Kyle Petty's Peak,white and blue,with white #'s Grand Prix Dale Earnhardt's Bass Pro Shop's 1998 Monte Carlo Curtis Turner's red and white 1965 Ford Galaxxie Richard Petty's 1971 Road Runner Alan Kulwicki's 1986 Quincy's Thunderbird Russ Wheeler's 1990 Hardee's Lumina Curtis Turner's 1956 peach and white Ford convertible Fred Lorenzen's pearl white ford's Jeff Gordon's 2009 Pepsi Challenger Impala Dale Earnhardt's 1995 silver Monte Carlo Jeff Gordon's 1995 Monte Carlo David Pearson's 1968-69 Torino David Pearson's 1966 Dodge David Pearson's 1973 Mercury Cyclone(which was a '71 model) Dale Earnhardt's 1996 Olympic Monte Carlo(I saw this one in person at Winston Select qualifying.) Terry Labonte's 1996 Honey Crunch Monte Carlo(I saw this one in qualifying too.) John Force's 2010 25th anniversary silver Mustang(I saw him win the Inaugural Four-Wide Nationals with this car.) 914. Matt G posted: 04.05.2013 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Blue Ridge Tower or the Richard Petty Tower? Either way, prepare the right side of your face." Richard Petty Tower, 40 some rows up. Can't wait! 915. Paul posted: 04.05.2013 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) My four favorite Dale Earnhardt cars: 1. #8 GM Goodwrench Chevy (This was the Busch car he drove in the late '80s for his own team. It looked a lot like the Cup car he drove in '88 with the silver numbers, but I think the silver numbers looked a lot better on this car than they did on his Cup car.) 2. #3 GM Goodwrench Chevy w/ silver numbers (He only drove this car for one season, in 1988, before switching to white numbers the following season, but I always liked this car. It reminds me of the "Gray Ghost" that Buddy Baker and Bobby Allison drove from '79-'81, and the paint scheme itself had a mystique about it that Dale's '89-'01 cars with the white numbers didn't have.) 3. #3 Wrangler Chevy (The black car screamed "bad ass" and "legend," but whenever I see this car, I think of "bad ass" and "redneck"; two types of people you definitely don't want to cross all rolled into one.) 4. #K-2 1956 Ford Victoria (No greatest paint schemes list would be complete if we didn't mention that Dale Earnhardt once drove this bad boy on the local dirt tracks prior to his NASCAR career. Just imagine if Dale drove this pink colored car to 76 wins and 7 championships. We'd be seeing pink cars in our nightmares!) 916. cjs3872 posted: 04.05.2013 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, the 1988 GM Goodwrench paint scheme with the silver number 3 really was synonymous with that team, particularly Earnhardt himself, as they were the Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders of NASCAR at that time, and remember that the Raiders were still relevant then, and the Raiders may have the most iconic uniforms in all the NFL with the black jerseys and the silver numbers that they wear at home. That's what Earnhardt and RCR represented back then because, in more ways than one, they were to NASCAR what the Raiders were to the NFL. Not only did they intimidate the opposition like the Raiders did, but they also won the way the Raiders used to, as evidenced by winning six championships in nine seasons, and finishing lower than third in the championship only once from 1986-'95. So not only did they intimidate the competition like the Raiders did, they could also back it up with statistics and resuls, which is what really counted, so that paint job with the silver number really fit that team to a tee, and it's unfortunate they only used it one year before changing the number from silver to white in 1989. 917. JG24FanForever posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Top 2 points finishers in 1996 using F1's current points system: 1. Jeff Gordon 430 2. Terry Labonte 341 Gordon's Top 3 finishes alone add up to 364 points. 918. Paul posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh believe me cjs, I know that the Raiders were still relevant in 1988. They were more than just a football team in the mid to late '80s, they were also a piece of pop culture, especially in the Los Angeles area. The silver and black colors that the Raiders have adorned since 1963 (they didn't have the silver for their first three years as a franchise) have always been an iconic color combination not just in the NFL, but in all of professional sports, and that only continued to escalate when they moved to Los Angeles in 1982 and won a Super Bowl the following season, all while the L.A. hip-hop/rap scene started to get really hot. The Raiders made some deals with some clothing lines that made a lot of flat-billed hats and big black jackets with Raiders' logos on them, and that really transcended them into pop culture lore. I didn't know that that's why RCR designed Dale's car the way they did in '88, but that would make a lot of sense because the #3 team was pretty much the Raiders of NASCAR during that time period because they were always championship contenders and they had an intimidating demeanor and mystique that no other NASCAR team had during their reign on the sport, which was only enhanced when they went with a Raider-like paint scheme in 1988. But they wouldn't be the only team to take on the Raiders colors in professional sports. The Los Angeles Kings of the NHL changed their colors from purple and white to silver and black in 1988 as well, trying to capitalize on the high merchandise sales that the Raiders were making during that time. I believe the Chicago White Sox of the MLB made their home jerseys more silver with black pinstripes for the same reasons. And I think a few soccer teams and minor league baseball teams around the U.S. did the same thing for similar reasons. I know Al Davis didn't like it because he felt like the other teams were trying to capitalize on the Raiders' pop culture success and try and "steal their thunder," but that just goes to show you how polarizing the Raiders of the '80s were, not just in the NFL or in pro sports, but in pop culture. We may never see another pro sports team due what the Raiders of the '80s did ever again, which is have a lasting impact on such a large part of the population; sports fans and non-sports fans all know who the Raiders are because of that silver and black imagery, the intimidating look that the players had in those uniforms, the success that they had while in those uniforms, and for the permanent imprint it had on pop culture in the U.S. 919. murb posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've always seen Dale's Wrangler car as way more badass than the black Goodwrench car. He seemed like he was even more "intimidating" and wild in the Wrangler car. 920. Paul posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like the points system that Formula One has. A lot of points at the top part of the field, with good-sized margins in between each position, and then it slowly gets closer and closer until you reach 11th place where everybody else receives the same number of points. I don't think NASCAR should do what Formula One does and have a certain number of cars finishing with 0 points just because there are a lot more "field fillers" in NASCAR than there are in Formula One, but I do think they should have similar intervals in the points, especially near the front of the field, that Formula One has. 921. Paul posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) When Dale paid you back in the black GM Goodwrench car, he would just bump you from behind and sent you spinning towards the wall. When Dale paid you back in the blue and yellow Wrangler car, you didn't know if he would pay you back "cleanly" or hook you in the right rear and send you head-on into the wall. With the Dale Earnhardt who drove the black car, you knew what you were going to get if you stood in his way, but with the Dale Earnhardt in the blue and yellow car, it was probably best if you didn't mess around with him and find out the hard way. Plus, he wore a big cowboy hat, had a sick mustache, long sideburns, and a gigantic chip on his shoulder. In other words, stay the hell out of his way! Just look at the way he drove in the 1987 All-Star Race. If he drove that hard and that dirty (or at least in some people's minds) while leading in a non-points race, just imagine what he would do if he was behind you while running in 2nd late in the season with the championship on the line. 922. cjs3872 posted: 04.05.2013 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I'm not sure that the fact that they wanted to have their car look like the Raiders color scheme had anything to do with the way they painted their car for 1988. I just said it was fitting for that team to have their car in silver and black colors because they were the Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders of NASCAR at that time. The thig with the yellow and blue colors that Dale ran from his entry in the series in 1979 through 1987 was that those colors also represented him well, as he was the swash-buckling driver that upset the establishment. And as for he 1987 All-Star Race and the dirty way Dale drove that day, just ask Geoff Bodine, Terry Labonte, and especially Bill Elliott about that. The odd thing is that, athough Labonte finished second, I don't think he's ever been asked about that race in an interview, nor was he interviewed that day, and when NASCAR Race Hub brought back the combatants from that race to celebrate it's 25th anniversary, Labonte was not there. I would have liked to have heard is comments about that race. And ironically, Dale, Sr. would probably be a 4-time winner of the All-Star Race if not for a block he threw on Kyle Petty on the last lap, because there wasa better than average chance that if Petty had gotten side-by-side with Earnhardt, that Earnhardt would still have beaten him to the S/F line, but by blocking the way he did, he ended up spinning himself out. 923. Paul posted: 04.05.2013 - 10:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe it wasn't their intention to style their car like the L.A. Raiders, but because they did so the same year that the L.A. Kings did, as they too changed their team colors to silver and black in 1988, at the very least that is a pretty big coincidence. 924. jabber1990 posted: 04.05.2013 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I am probably the ONLY person who has, and ever will say this I would like to see somebody win the championship during a 0 win season I just think that would be really cool! 925. David posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Smith wrote an article about the 2007 Cup series season, and along with it, he posted the full driver statistics for that season. Here are the serviceable-or-better drivers: 1. Jeff Gordon - 4.667 2. Jimmie Johnson - 4.458 3. Mark Martin - 2.833 4. Matt Kenseth - 2.556 5. Tony Stewart - 2.486 6. Carl Edwards - 1.986 7. Ryan Newman - 1.944 8. Brian Vickers - 1.902 9. Kyle Busch - 1.889 10. Denny Hamlin - 1.833 11. Jeff Burton - 1.694 12. Kurt Busch - 1.333 (be prepared to be SHOCKED) 13. Michael Waltrip - 1.321 14. Clint Bowyer - 1.292 15. Martin Truex, Jr. - 1.236 16. Greg Biffle - 1.208 17. Casey Mears - 1.139 926. David posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "13. Michael Waltrip - 1.321 14. Clint Bowyer - 1.292" Who's the worse driver NOW, Clint?? 927. Paul posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice job by Brian Vickers. He gave Toyota their first top five and top ten in their inaugural Cup season in '07, plus he led 76 laps in the Coca-Cola 600 that season. He was the star of a struggling first year manufacturer, and his PEER rating shows it. As for Mikey, he scored MWR's only 2 top tens and pole in '07, and had an average finish of 25.0 (his best full season average finish since leaving DEI), all while failing to qualify more often than he made the show (partially due to that 100-point penalty at Daytona). So basically, I'm not surprised his PEER was as high as it was that season. I am however surprised at how high Ryan Newman's 2007 PEER rating was. He missed the Chase, didn't win a race and had 9 DNFs, and yet his PEER rating was 0.611 higher than that of teammate Kurt Busch, who won 2 races, made the Chase, and led over 598 more laps than Newman. Hmmm... 928. Paul posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Who's the worst driver NOW, Clint??" Haha, I'm still amazed how a driver with FIVE top fives could finish 3rd in the points. Clint had the same number of top fives as Mark Martin, and Mark was driving for a team that was liquefied by DEI mid-season and skipped 1/3 of the schedule. 929. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.05.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Kyle Petty has always had some of the best paint schemes. Starting with his reverse STP schemes when he first started (that Petty Blue and day glo red is just spectacular), to that awesome 1990 Peak scheme to his EPIC Mello Yello scheme. I also really liked his '95 scheme with Coors Light, his Hot Wheels scheme was really good imo, and I also really liked his #45 Sprint car. I don't know how much of that is emotion, seeing Kyle drive his fallen son's car (I will never forget the '93 Dega pre race with Donnie driving the show car of Davey's car, just goosebump raising) but I really liked the scheme. Of course I know what Kyle's most memorable scheme was imo. Dover 1996. They just don't make them like Felix anymore! 930. cjs3872 posted: 04.05.2013 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that the red and blue Richard Petty STP scheme was a great paint scheme. And it was so popular that it was adopted by Pat Patrick and Gordon Johncock in the early 1980s. After not being sponsored by STP from 1978-'80, STP returned to the Patrick Racing team in 1981 at the same time that Mario Andretti joined the team, and the car that Gordon Johncock drove actually had the same paint job that Richard Petty had, and of course, Johncock won the 1982 race with it in the Indy 500's first NASCAR-style finish with two drivers coming to the wire at the same time. They continued to use that same paint scheme that basically paid tribute to Petty until Johncock's sudden retirement in 1985. Don Whittington drove that car at Indy tht year, but STP left Patrick after the 1985 season. But when Johncock returned to Indy in 1987, that iconic STP paint scheme also returned with him one final time. And that paint schene is so iconic that after his team won the 2011 Daytona 500, Eddie Wood said that his car should always have those famed red and white colors with the gold numeral on the side and the #43 car should always be painted in those red and blue STP colors. But here's something. Kyle and Richard Petty actually reversed paint schemes in 1982, at least in the Daytona 500. Kyle used Richard's traditional paint scheme in that race while Richard used the reverse paint scheme, though I'm not sure about who used what paint job during the other races in 1982. 931. Paul posted: 04.05.2013 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What Felix Sabates lacked in equipment and resources, he made up for with awesome paint schemes. Those early Coors Light cars that Sterling Marlin drove had really nice paint schemes, as did Joe Nemechek's BellSouth car and even the #46 First Union car that Wally Dallenbach and Jeff Green drove in '97-'98. I also really liked Kyle Petty's Georgia Pacific/Brawny car that he drove from '03-'05 with the stars & stripes paint scheme. His Wells Fargo car that he drove in the final three years of his career were also really nice. And who could forget that all black Coke Zero car he drove to a 3rd place finish in the 2007 Coca-Cola 600. It was only appropriate that he drove an all black car to his final top five finish at his home track. It's almost like some of these smaller teams spent a lot of time getting their cars painted to make up for their lack of speed and reliability, as Petty Enterprises always seemed to have really nice paint schemes. That Honey Nut Cheerios car that John Andretti drove in 2002 is still one of my all-time favorite paint schemes. I remember when General Mills used to put some of those diecast cars in select cereal boxes. I have seven diecast John Andretti #43 cars, and five of them came from cereal boxes haha (3 Honey Nut Cheerios, 1 Trix, 1 Wheaties). 932. AveryNH posted: 04.05.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What about the Muppet's promotion they ran back in 2002 at Chicagoland? Fozzie Bear is my favorite Muppet and it was so neat seeing him on the hood of Johnny Benson's Pontiac all day. Kermit and Miss Piggy on DJ's Ford was cool too. I have a 1:64 scale of that car, Casey Atwood & Rowlf, Jimmy Spencer and fittingly Animal, and finally Mayfield with Beaker and Dr. Honneydew. 933. JG24FanForever posted: 04.05.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Of course I know what Kyle's most memorable scheme was imo. Dover 1996. They just don't make them like Felix anymore!" That car was called the "protest" car. I used to have that die-cast. I wish they would have painted Martin's car like Gordon's in '98 when "tire-gate" was happening:) 934. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.05.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) For those who don't know, Kyle got hit with an absolute bullshit 5 lap rough driving penalty in the 1996 World 600. In my opinion, the biggest bullshit rough driving penalty ever. I forgot who it was in front of him BUT KYLE NEVER TOUCHED HIM! Felix, his car owner, was so angry, and rightfully so, that the next week at Dover, he showed up with a solid black car with silver numbers saying something like "they let other certain black cars get away with actually wrecking people". It was great. I would love to find that diecast and buy it. Something about the World 600 I guess. Hell, Earnhardt for the one time in his career, got nailed for a BS one lap rough lap driving penalty in 1993 in the World 600 and he never touched the guy in front of him (it was Greg Sacks). Talk about a role reversal! Of course he made up the lap, got a caution, stormed back to the front and made a mockery of the end in the first ever day into night running of that race. My personal favorite Earnhardt race. He won and had that gigantic defiant smirk that still makes me smile to think about. They tried to screw him and got burned. Also, when asked about the new start time allowing the race to finish at night, Dale replied "they can start them whenever they like, I'll finish 'em!". Also, the one time they did give him a multiple lap penalty for rough driving was the 1988 World 600 when he blatantly wrecked Bodine in a carry over for the previous day's Busch race and got a 5 lap penalty. The only other rough driving penalties he got only sent him to the back of the lineup, putting the bull in his china shop. Ones that come to mind are Richmond '87 (he won, got penalized for racing Darrell on pit road a year and a half after the original "Waltrip, You're Outta Here" incident at the same track), Wilkesboro '88 (too late in the race for him to make up, after he tangled with Rudd, leading to The Great Wilkesboro Incident Of Eighty Nine), and after he dumped Rusty very early at Bristol '95 (he would wreck 3 more cars that night, including the winner Labonte as he took the checkered). 935. AveryNH posted: 04.05.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) My all time favorite paint-scheme has to be Mark Martin's gold 500 consecutive starts #6 Viagra Ford that he ran at New Hampshire in 2003. http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2003/cup/6-500-layout.jpg I was at that race and the first stop at the souvenir stands I made was at his hauler to get a 1:64 size replica of that same car. Of course it had a ridiculous cross-promotion with Rafael Palmerio, who was chasing his 600th home run at the time. What a bunch of scum and lies that turned out to be. 936. New14 & 88Fan posted: 04.05.2013 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, it was Ted Musgrave that restarted in front of Kyle Petty. Ted either spun his tires or missed a shift causing Kyle to get into the back of him and spin him into the leaders, but yeah that penalty was total BS. 937. cjs3872 posted: 04.05.2013 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And to add to bizarre incidents at the World 600, DSFF, there was the one in 1973 where Buddy Baker spun out late in the race to bring out a caution without hitting anything, and laer admitted that he did it on purpose because he knew he had a flat tire. That might draw a penalty of one or more laps today. He and Pearson pitted during that caution and Pearson got only two tires while Baker got four, and took advantage of a rare stategy blunder by the Wood Brothers to become not just the first 3-time World 600 winner, but also the first to do it back-to-back, with all three wins in that event coming in Dodges, but for three different teams (Ray Fox in 1968, Petty Enterprises in '72, and Nord Krauskopf's K&K Insurance team in '73). Ironically, Pearson would win it two of the next three years (1974, '76) to become that race's second three-time winner. 938. murb posted: 04.05.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *SPOILER ALERT* 48 wins Martinsville pole. Ugh. 939. cjs3872 posted: 04.05.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well murb, two things don't surprise me. The first was Jimmie's Martinsville pole, as with Denny Hamlin out of the way, the coast should be clear for Jimmie to win for an eighth time at Martinsville, unless there are some more crazy late race happenings. The other thing that doesn't surprise me is Mark Martin's bad run in the #11 car in qualifying. Seriously, 35th in a car that usually is one of the dominant forces there? I said it was a bad idea to put Mark in that car for specifically this reason. He's usually not very good at Martinsville, though he does have two wins to his credit, both under unusual circumstances. Also, this is one race where Joey Logano's experience at Joe Gibbs Racing will really help Brad Keselowski, who usually isn't that good at Martinsville either, and both qualified in the top seven, with Logano qualifying for the second row. Look for both of the Penske cars to be up front. 940. DaleSrFanForever posted: 04.05.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I watched qualifying online. Well, I watched the leaderboard. 941. jabber1990 posted: 04.05.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's almost like some of these smaller teams spent a lot of time getting their cars painted to make up for their lack of speed and reliability" I have a theory behind that they needed some sort of support, so they get cool paint jobs hopefully a new sponsor gives them attention so they get a little more money and get competitive in all my racing cames I give the cars without sponsors (which is like half of them in one game) really cool paint jobs (also, its hard to follow when half the cars are white with a black number on them) I always liked Cole Trickles City Chevrolet paintjob, something about OD green and Yellow, I mean Yellow and OD green what are some of the worst paint jobs ever? I never liked this one http://www.jayski.com/schemes/2004/cup/97sharpies-front.jpg now that I look at it, I realised its not that bad, it would look cool if it was gold instead of brown 942. Benjamin Lowe posted: 04.05.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though he wasn't a great driver Kyle Petty was an absolute terror at Rockingham during the early 90's 943. Kyle L posted: 04.06.2013 - 1:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This just looks like a Jimmie Johnson weekend coming up. The 48 team is coming off an awful performance at Fontana and you know they are going to rebound big at one of their best tracks. He already has 7 wins there and Denny (one of his biggest threats there) is out. Add on the pole and the best pit stall and I'd almost be surprised if he didn't win - Which really sucks. But damn - If we can just get him to have trouble, this thing is WIDE OPEN! 944. joey2448 posted: 04.30.2013 - 7:04 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I know this is way late in response to the posts from over a month ago, but I just did some quick google searching and I am just literally in shock that some of you actually watch shows such as my little pony! You do realize that the target audience is for little girls right? Pathetic. 945. The Long Shot posted: 06.26.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew: none 946. TTF24 posted: 06.01.2014 - 11:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) They Touch They Touch Hamlin and Logano into the wall and Hamlin into the wall and Kyle Busch wins at California hard impact I don't like the looks about this watch the back ooo there's no SAFER Barrier it went up I agree with you I'm little concerned that it was a hard hit yeah it was a payback and boy is Tony Stewart is after Logano hey his is your fault me? ah punch punch punch and here's your winner Kyle Busch ends his winless streak at California for Toyota 947. chevyfan98 posted: 10.04.2016 - 2:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something you probably don't know about this race (or just never realized)... Joey Logano gained three spots at the end of this race because of NASCAR throwing the caution on the last lap. He made the chase in 2013 by one point. Logano misses the chase = No 13th car = Higher chance that NASCAR doesn't screw around with the chase format. Basically what I'm saying is, if it weren't for trigger happy NASCAR officials, we may not have this current chase format right now. Not likely, and obviously a lot of wishful thinking, but possible. 948. chevyfan98 posted: 10.04.2016 - 2:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I'm an idiot, I just realized he would've made the chase because Newman still wouldn't have been in the lead at Richmond. Disregard everything I just said. Its tired I'm late. 949. Anthony posted: 03.10.2018 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race had so many similarities in terms of the finish. It was like watching part 2 of the 1979 Daytona 500: Two drivers going for the win, they both wreck, the guy in third wins, there's even a fight after the race (With a different driver of course). Again, for this race to be a mirror image of the '79 Daytona 500 is crazy! 950. Isaiah A. posted: 01.08.2019 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The very first NASCAR race I attended, and I sure got my money's worth! 951. Anonymous posted: 05.01.2020 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One of the more infamous and memorable races of the Gen 6 era will re-air May 13th on fs1 this one is a little bit more recent 7 years yeah its a while back yes, but its not that long. 952. Anonymous posted: 05.01.2020 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also believe it will possibly be the last race that will re-air I think before they return May 17th. 953. Rich posted: 12.19.2020 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Joy, Larry McReynolds and Darrell Waltrip were the commentators. Steve Byrnes, Matt Yocum and Krista Voda were the pit road reporters. Jeff Hammond was the roving reporter. Chris Myers and Michael Waltrip were in the Hollywood hotel. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: