|| *Comments on the 2013 Bojangles' Southern 500:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. David posted: 05.10.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Good job to Kurt Busch and Furniture Row Racing! 2. The Long Shot posted: 05.10.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First pole for Furniture Row since the 2008 Aaron's 499 at Talladega with driver Joe Nemechek. 3. The Final Gear posted: 05.10.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Paul Menard and BoB are both listed as 100-1 odds. I'd feel offended if I'm Paul Menard. 4. murb posted: 05.10.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm going all out for Kurt this weekend. GO KURT!!! BEAT THE ROBOTS (THE 48 TEAM)!!!! 5. Peter posted: 05.10.2013 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Way to go Kurt!! 6. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.10.2013 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brighto! Brighto! Makes old bodies new! 7. Kenny posted: 05.10.2013 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope Kurt wins I'm hoping he makes the chase Side note @the final gear and the guy I was talk to about Florida last week Do eather of you have a FB page if so can I add y'all? 8. Anonymous posted: 05.10.2013 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb The 48 team can't be called a team of robots The last time I check, Chad Knaus can't be called a robot because the amount of times he got caught cheating. 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.10.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JJ's face when Kurt laid down that lap to beat him was hilarious. Unfortunately that will be the worst thing that happens to him all weekend as I, his unwitting good luck charm, will be in attendance. Here is a list of JJ's finishes at races I have attended: 2002 Fall Martinsville: 6th 2003 Spring Martinsville: 9th 2003 Fall Martinsville: 2nd 2004 Spring Martinsville: 4th (105 laps led) 2004 Charlotte 600: 1st (334 laps led) 2004 Charlotte 500: 1st (35 laps led) 2004 Fall Martinsville: 1st (67 laps led) 2005 Spring Martinsville: 8th 2005 Charlotte 600: 1st (11 laps led) 2005 Fall Martinsville: 3rd 2006 Spring Martinsville: 3rd (195 laps led) 2006 Charlotte 600: 2nd (24 laps led) 2006 Fall Martinsville: 1st (245 laps led) 2007 Spring Martinsville: 1st (113 laps led) 2007 Fall Martinsville: 1st (147 laps led) 2008 Spring Martinsville: 4th (135 laps led) 2008 Fall Martinsville: 1st (339 laps led) 2009 Spring Martinsville: 1st (42 laps led) 2009 Fall Martinsville: 2nd (164 laps led) 2010 Fall Martinsville: 5th 2011 Spring Martinsville: 11th (!!!) (65 laps led) 2011 Fall Martinsville: 2nd (61 laps) 2012 Southern 500: 1st (134 laps led) 2012 Fall Martinsville: 1st (193 laps led) 2013 Spring Martinsville: 1st (career high 346 laps led) Final tally: 25 starts, 12 wins, 21 Top 5s, 24 Top 10s, 25 Top 11s, 2755 laps led. Damn. 10. JG24FanForever posted: 05.10.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF,Ultimate numerology! Gordon starts 8th If he wins it'll be the 8th time you have seen him win. It'll be the 8th career win at Darlington and his 88th career win. Please!! Please!! make it happen! 11. murb posted: 05.10.2013 - 7:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Final tally: 25 starts, 12 wins" That's about 5% of his total wins. Holy hell. 12. David posted: 05.10.2013 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FanForever, aren't you at the race tomorrow, too? Maybe you will be Jeff's good luck charm. 13. JG24FanForever posted: 05.10.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "JG24FanForever, aren't you at the race tomorrow, too? Maybe you will be Jeff's good luck charm." I'm going to be watching it on T.V for the first time since 2007,the 7th career Darlington win for Jeff. I'm taking a break from going this year because i'm getting burned out(I can't afford it this year.)on going to races,and I figured that Jeff would have a better chance of winning if I wasn't there;) 14. rtcrules posted: 05.10.2013 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wonder if I could still get the 50-1 on Kurt? Also, if I wanted to play a real long shot I'd go with Regan Smith at 100-1. Has a win and usually runs well here. Damn I wish I could remeber my 5dimes name... Oh well. 15. Ed posted: 05.10.2013 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 12-1 on Gordon? Are the oddsmakers drunk? 16. Kenny posted: 05.10.2013 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can someone tell me where Jr was in 1st & 2nd practes today please? 17. Anonymous posted: 05.10.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Kenny, He was 4th in 1st practice and 11th in happy hour. 18. Kenny posted: 05.10.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) well thats good so why the hell is he gonna start 17th? 19. Paul posted: 05.10.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well that's good, so why the hell is he gonna start 17th?" First off, he's starting 16th, not 17th. Also the same question could be asked as to why Juan Pablo Montoya and Paul Menard won the two practice sessions, yet qualified 12th and 15th, respectively. Because the track changes throughout the day and qualifying isn't the same as practice. It's a lot different to put a good lap down when by yourself than when other cars are around you. Not everyone who has a good practice lap is going to put down a good qualifying lap on the same weekend, and Dale Jr. is no exception. 20. joey2448 posted: 05.10.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it seems like I made the mistake of putting my emotional investment into the Chicago Bulls-Miami Heat playoff series. Once the Bulls won game 1, I felt like they were in good position to win the series, but it looks like Miami has control now, winning game 3 to take a 2-1 series lead. Man, and the Bulls fought so hard today, just to come up short! Gotta let it go... Sorry for my off-topic post, I just gotta get that off my chest. As far as the race, congrats to Kurt Busch for winning the pole, one year after his emotional blowup in this race! And good job to Denny Hamlin for qualifying sixth! 21. The Long Shot posted: 05.10.2013 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the Cup race is twice as exciting as the Nationwide race, I'll be disappointed. 22. Eric posted: 05.11.2013 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenny, Dale Jr. was 8th in Qualifying order, but was 7th. Qualifying started 5:10 eastern and that means the later cars has an advantage based on temperature since Darlington is weather sensitive. Danica Patrick was supposed to be the first to qualify, but she didn't before around her boss qualified. Even if Danica didn't crash in practice, Dale Jr had a bad draw draw in qualifying. 23. Eric posted: 05.11.2013 - 1:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenny, Some other drivers had a bad qualifying draw also beside Dale Jr. like Montoya, Truex and Edwards did. Carl was 12 in qualifying order, but went out 11th due to Danica. Carl was 3rd in practice and he qualified 17th. Truex had a very strong laps with him being 5th despite being the first driver out due to Danica Patrick's wreck in practice. Truex had the 7th and 9th fastest times in practice. If Truex had a better draw, it might have been possible of him winning the pole. The Qualifying order did affect Montoya. He was supposed go out 6th, but went out 5th. If he went out later for Qualifying he might even had the pole. It shouldn't have effected Menard as much since he was 27th and Kurt Busch was 33rd in qualifying order. 24. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano with better odds than McMurray (won multiple big ones; not crown jewels, but bigger races none-the-less); Stenhouse with better odds than Montoya? 25. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:28 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Can't whine too much. There is definitively one driver less talented than Panica Craptrick, Baroness of Backmarkers: Bobby Norfleet 26. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ahhh I'm an idiot why dident I thank of where he rolled off during qualifying 27. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anything is more exciting than the Nationwide Series. 28. 83andJoe posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Anything is more exciting than the Nationwide Series. Except possibly Indy Lights, which is running with nine-car fields this year... 29. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Any one else on these boards play the espn nascar fantasy league I have really slipped up these last few weeks. 30. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) At the track premises now. The toilet in Jeff's motorhome probably just overflowed, and Jimmie Johnson probably just came across a $100 bill on the ground. 31. Schroeder51 posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) ...I was too late! 32. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder, how could you fail us like this?! 33. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 12:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Death to Schroeder. Hear that sound? It's the sound of the golden horseshoe wedging itself up Jimmie Johnson's ass. 34. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 12:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My fantasy team Hamlin Johnson Mcmurray Truex Logano what do you think 35. Lugnut18 posted: 05.11.2013 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #19 Menard posted that fast lap in race trim, not qualifying trim. His car was pretty junk in the second practice when he and everyone else was in qualifying trim. 36. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lord it is humid here. Fitting for the Southern 500 I reckon. 37. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go ahead, DSFF, take that golden horseshoe you have and wedge it up Jimmie's where-the-sun-don't-shine. 38. cjs3872 posted: 05.11.2013 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And fairly warm, DSFF. It's been warm, if not downright hot on the Atlantic coast. Yesterday in Baltimore, it hit the mid 80s, but with storms later in the day, so the race could be delayed somewhat if one such storm hits. Frankly, I think that's one reason the date for this race was moved, because NASCAR didn't want the race on Labor Day weekend to be affected by weather, so it was moed to the next-to-last race of the season in 2004, which actually wouldn't be sch a bad place on the schedule to place it. Can you imagine this race, possibly the toughest on the entire circit, as a race that could essentially decide the championship? If there track itself wasn't hard enough, just add the pressure of a championship battle to it. And of course, since this race moved to Mother's Day weekend in 2005, it hasn't entirely been bereft of bad weather. When Jeff Gordon won it in 2007, it was run on Mother's Day because it was rained out the previous night, and they say there's a 50% chance of thunderboomers tonight, though exactly what time isn't known to me. But this race has had stretches over it's history where it's been plagued by weather issues for several consecutive years. It happened from 1985-'87 and again from 1999-2002, which may have been a reason for the date change for 2004 to November and then to Mother's Day weekend in 2005. They wanted to get this race away from volatile weather, but it looks like the weather tonight could be volatile. 39. Schroeder51 posted: 05.11.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Getting ready to head to the track right now...you'll probably hear from me again after the race is over. The forecast for tonight doesn't look promising. I had to sit in the parking lot back in '07 while rain washed out the race that Saturday night...I am hoping I'm not in for a repeat of that. 40. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hope all you guys going to the race tonight have fun!!! 41. cjs3872 posted: 05.11.2013 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Unless, Schroeder51, you're a Jeff Gordon fan. Then you'd want the race to get rained out, because he won the most recent of his record six Southern 500s in a race delayed a day by rain in 2007. He also won the race at Atlanta almost two years ago in a race delayed two days by a hurricane, and that race was his record sixth Labor Day weekend win. And even his win at Pocono last year was shortened by the horrible lightning storm that injured ten spectators, one of them fatally. Ironically, that was his record sixth win there. So fans of Jeff Gordon wouldn't mind if this race was postponed by rain. 42. Schroeder51 posted: 05.11.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) cjs, you just made no sense. Why would I want the race rained out so I could see Jeff Gordon win on Sunday? There is no fun in sitting in a soaking wet parking lot on a Saturday night...and I doubt it's anymore fun having to take cover from the rain in the grandstands. 43. Schroeder51 posted: 05.11.2013 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The one good thing is that I don't have to hear the Waltrip Bros. Show at the track because they broadcast MRN over the PA system. 44. Anonymous posted: 05.11.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) im going to say something that might make y'all mad at me...and if it doesnt then you'll realise what i've been saying I think Denny should have ran a nationwide race or 2, he shoudl have ran last nights, you cant go from sitting out for 5 race to running 500 miles, you need some sort of transition yes, I do know that 300 miles in a nationwide car is nothing like 500 miles in a cup car, but its still a good measuring stick 45. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where you sitting at Schroeder? I'm back outside the track grilling right now (we got garage hot passes, my friend is childhood buddies with David Hoots). 46. AveryNH posted: 05.11.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @comment 44- I see your point, sorta like a minor league rehab assignment you would see in the MLB, progressively working a player back from injury. The problem is with Denny's thick skull, he still thinks he can still make the chase. He will accept no deviation from that impossible goal. So a petty nationwide-AAA assignment would just be a roadblock and a possible risk of further injury. I like the thought though. Too bad Denny despises it. 47. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I was 44, sorry 48. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...see if we banned cup drivers from nationwide races then we wouldnt have minor league rehab 49. Harvick Fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kubica wrote: My fantasy team Hamlin Johnson Mcmurray Truex Logano Not a bad line-up. I play in an ESPN league as well. Here's my 5 that is still subject to change: Johnson Ky. Busch Burton Truex Edwards 50. cjs3872 posted: 05.11.2013 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Schroeder51, the point was that Gordon seems to be better in races that are affected by rain, instead of when they're run when they're scheduled. Of Gordon's last ten wins, at least four of them have been affected by rain, including two at Pocono, one each at Atlanta and Darlington, and two of them were postponed. That's what I meant. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason for it, but it's just happened over the last few years that he's done better in races affected by rain. And the fact that the track's aging could also benefit him. Remember that when he won three times in 2011, every one of them was on a worn out track surface (Phoenix, Pocono, and Atlanta). 51. Baker posted: 05.11.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Of coarse Gordon is better in races interrupted by rain he drives for Hendrick. Along with the golden horse shoe that has been stuck up their ass since the mid 90s Nascar also makes a habbit out of calling races quickly when a Hendrick driver is in front as opposed to waiting it out when Carl Edwards or another Ford is out front. 52. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Yeah, NASCAR really should have restarted the race at Pocono last August when it was raining and lightning outside. Can't have those damn Hendrick cars winning rain-shortened races. That kind of thinking is completely absurd. 53. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Hamlin can still make the chase.He should get into the top 20 in points so now he needs wins 2 might get him in and 3 will.Gibbs are number 1 right now and he has 2 trips to Pocono and 1 to Richmond plus Kentucky Michigan twice and charlotte and Sonoma he is due a good road course result.If busch Johnson and kenseth can hoover up the wins that should also help him and he may need only 2 wins.I am going to predict now that he makes the chase with 2 wins. 54. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 05.11.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Time of the race anyone? Central time, if you may. I'm predicting Johnson's victory. Again. DSFF aka 'The Golden horseshoe carved in the shape of a 48' has showed up at the track. I'm not complaining. JJ is still my fav. If not that, at least a top 5 run. If Johnson dosen't win, I would love Logano to cut it. Also, I had a terrible nightmare last night. A nightmare that Slamica Pornographic won tonight's race in a fuel mileage finish. And the next week every single news station was literally making that their head story. 55. 83andJoe posted: 05.11.2013 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race is scheduled to go at 7pm Eastern, 6pm Central, per Jayski's. (And that's actual green-flag time, race broadcast starts 15m prior). 56. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR on fox prerace show? they dont have any sponsor for that? 57. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I literally JUST missed the Jeff Gordon interview. What did they say? 58. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, that really bums me out. 59. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I literally JUST missed the Jeff Gordon interview. What did they say?" They basically just talked about his 700th start tonight. Nothing too important. Of course, I'm not a diehard Gordon fan like a lot of you guys, so it probably is important to you, lol It's pretty cool that they are doing a little ten year retrospective on the Craven/Busch finish. I remember being an eight year old and watching that. It was mind boggling. 60. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't watch the races on TV, but I will start anyway. Waltrips and McReynolds, you're outta here! 61. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the line of showers/storms threatening Darlington tonight have broken up and what's left of it heading well Northwest of the Track. 62. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How many starts more seasons do you think Gordon will do. He has signed up to 2014 which will be his 22nd straight season and he will have made over 750 starts. He could potentially reach Bobby Allisons 336 top5s if he keeps going long enough which would possibly his best record yet. 63. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did Stewart just hurt Mikey's feeling's? 64. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Looks like the line of showers/storms threatening Darlington tonight have broken up and what's left of it heading well Northwest of the Track." Let's see what our resident meteorologist says. 65. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's weird seeing Darlington on T.V Not dealing with every pain in the ass that comes with going to races feels good for a change. 66. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love Darlington. 67. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did anybody get that? 68. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) While it is a very nice gesture, the moms are pretty mediocre at giving the command. 69. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 05.11.2013 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) THE RACE IS ON NOW! DANG-NAB IT! 70. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "THE RACE IS ON NOW! DANG-NAB IT!" In the words of Maxwell Smart, "sorry about that". I missed the first fifteen minutes of the broadcast, so I was ticked for a while, too. 71. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the subject of legitimate Crown Jewel races,the Brickyard 400 is only a Crown race from 1994-2007 right? Since 2008 the attendance has gone from 290,000+ to just over 120,000+. The 2008 race is one of the worst races ever run in Nascar. and it's fitting that Jimmie Johnson has a Bizarro Jeff Gordon-total of victories with 4. Johnson only has 4 finishes of 1st-8th. 72. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the best oval track in the world! 73. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Conditions fine for racing tonight says the resident meteorologist. 74. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here here jg 24 fan but indy is no longer a major because of crowd att then neither is the spring dega race or the coke 600 which have also had waning crowds in the last 5 years. 75. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I bag on Ryan Newman a lot for his ability to come off like a dick sometimes, but I definitely admire his "Race Hard For Every Lap" mentality. That was a cool move he made on Edwards and Aric. 76. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Here here jg 24 fan but indy is no longer a major because of crowd att then neither is the spring dega race or the coke 600 which have also had waning crowds in the last 5 years." Thanks for the feedback. I guess the race still has it's Crown status despite it's diminishing historical value. 77. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really like the way all the greats have won at darlington on at least 3 occasions which I think just adds another nice sparkle to darlington. The winners list is a whos who of nascar.Rusty is really the only major player not to win at the lady. 78. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr is moving up Fluttershy:yay 79. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 28 laps in, going a lap down in a Hendrick car. 80. JRacingFast posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 28 laps in......and one lap down.....Cue the weekly "Danica excuses brought to you by the waltrip brothers and FOX" 81. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Danica is wasting a ride with a supposed quality team while guys like Ragan (I know he has had 1 shot already but he seems like a such a nice guy)and Smith do twice as much in lower funded teams. 82. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Rusty is really the only major player not to win at the lady." Lee Petty Tim Flock Rex White Tony Stewart Matt Kenseth Kurt Busch 5-time winners: 10 by the Silver Fox 9 by Big E 7 by Wonder Boy 5 by Bobby Allison 5 by Darrell Waltrip 5 by Cale Yarborough 5 by Bill Elliott 83. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They completely missed the race leader's pit stop. They never even mentioned that Kurt was on pit road. Awful. 84. Peter posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Its so awesome how much coverage Ragan and Gilliland are getting since last week 85. hyperacti posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There will be a yellow for debris within the next 12-20 laps. Mark it. Prediction: lap 67 86. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope Kurt wins eather he or Jr) 87. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) can you imagine the redemption if Kurt wins and the second-place is a Toyota 88. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica is getting lapped again. Unbelievable. 89. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Stenica Coverage Alert* 90. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Panica isn't doing anything Darrell. 91. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2 laps down in 67 laps, wow. Is she statistically the worst driver in NASCAR, relative to equipment strength? 92. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Orange car? 93. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Is she statistically the worst driver in NASCAR, relative to equipment strength?" As of now, yes. She currently holds a -0.150 PEER (Production in Equal Equipment Rating), ranking 40th out of 40 drivers. 94. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Can it just be Pocono already? I am sick of FOX. They used to be my favorite network for NASCAR, now they are by far my least favorite. 95. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Orange car?" I forgive Darrell for this error since he's probably just blinded from the green on BoB's car (since that's the only car on the track he ever pays attention to anymore). 96. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle to the lead. 97. hyperacti posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @93 Where do I go to view these stats? 98. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) well I guess there is all sorts of "godaddy" style stuff you can do with academy sporting goods 99. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fox: "We Miss Lead Changes" 100. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Fluttershy:yay 101. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Where do I go to view these stats?" MotorsportsAnalytics.com. Unfortunately, it is a subscription-based website, but well worth your time and money. 102. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth has it made if there is a long green flag run to the finish his lap times are so steady. 103. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon's doing his Silver Fox impression. 104. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I actually like this race so far. It seems like an old school Darlington race. That being said, I really hope I don't jinx this into a gimmick race. 105. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) hyperacti, there are several articles that are complimentary on the site. I strongly recommend you take a look at them, just to get a taste of what you are missing. 106. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And, to be clear, I am NOT David Smith, though I wish I was sometimes. 107. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I am NOT David Smith" Don't lie. 108. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) sadly I cannot hear the great commentary by fox, this ass is in this room listenign to crappy music on his iPhone, I think he's trying to push me out of the room so that I stop watching the race 109. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Doesn't look like Aric will be able to make it five straight top tens this weekend (unless something drastic happens). Damn. 110. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "this ass is in this room listenign to crappy music on his iPhone" Yes, rap music is extremely annoying. 111. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I think he's trying to push me out of the room so that I stop watching the race" Assert yourself! 112. We need more Onion posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://www.racing-reference.info/drivdet/spencji01/1994/W Take away the N.Wilkesboro qualifications and this looks like what BoB can achieve if she actually figures out how not to crash on superspeedways... 113. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Take away the N.Wilkesboro qualifications and this looks like what BoB can achieve if she actually figures out how not to crash on superspeedways..." And the two wins... 114. We need more Onion posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Everything is possible at 'Dega and Daytona, everyone can pull it out. 115. Cornys posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm very happy that there hasn't been a fake caution so far. There hasn't been once since before Richmond :) 116. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to say this, but does anyone think Kyles car looks alot like Danicas? 117. We need more Onion posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wasn't there something like a superstition about painting your nascar green in the 50's? 118. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Everything is possible at 'Dega and Daytona, everyone can pull it out." You're right, but I don't see it happening. Before we can even think about a Danica win at a plate track, she needs to figure out how to make moves late in the race. And with her stubborn personality, I think it will be a long time before she finally figures that stuff out. 119. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) an I thought about this they should take cup cars and do practice and qualifying during the day, impound them and start the race after the night begins, not during the evening. and/or practice and qualify at night impound and race during the day! 120. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Welp, I guess it's time to gimmick this thing up guys... 121. Cornys posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think I spoke too soon... I hope there actually was debris, but if they don't show it I won't beleive it. 122. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wasn't there something like a superstition about painting your nascar green in the 50's?" That was also true for the sixties too. Jeff Gordon never won with the Green Nicorette car,and also had one of the worst crashes of his career with it too. 123. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Actual racing (cars chasing each other down and passing under green) was interrupted by another faux caution to "make the racing more exciting", aka More crashes on restarts for the idiots in both the fanbase and the media. 124. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember hearing stories about Joe Weatherly and how he was so suspicious that one day when we was walking to the race track in the rain, causing his blue socks to turn green, that he took off his socks and drove a full race no socks on. That guy was quite a character. 125. Peter posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully that's a good omen that Kurt has led the most laps so far 126. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I know there alot of ppl out there who watch this Just for the crashes(no lie) 127. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) We should change that "Cautions Breed Cautions" phrase to "The Idiots In The Control Tower Breed Cautions". 128. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The FOX team hasn't annoyed me much in this race (aside from the usual over blown hype and catchphrases from the clowns with headsets). I wish I could be listening to MRN, but I haven't had internet all day because of the strong winds outside (I'm using the data on my phone to communicate with you guys). 129. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ... So, did they not just see Kurt pass Denny, breaking up the JGR 1-2-3? 130. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Were they cheering for Hamlin on the restart? I know DSFF wasn't. Joe Weatherly wouldn't enter the 1962 Southern 500 because it was the 13th running of the event. Only when the promoter changed the name to "12th Renewal Southern 500" did Weatherly file his entry. 131. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) when I was a young kid just getting into NASCAR I watched racing for the crashes and I grew up and watched the races for racing and now, not only do I watch NASCAR becasue its, well, NASCAR I do it to piss off my stepdad 132. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If idiots like Bob Pockrass and Jim Gutter were in charge of the sport Every race would be exactly like the AllStar Gimmick Festival next weekend except for 500 milers at Daytona/Talladega. They'd also demolish Darlington and Martinsville and replace it with a track in New York City and a second Chicago date. 133. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pissoff your stepdad?.....how? 134. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenny, his stepdad dislikes NASCAR. 135. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Joe Weatherly wouldn't enter the 1962 Southern 500 because it was the 13th running of the event. Only when the promoter changed the name to "12th Renewal Southern 500" did Weatherly file his entry." Curtis Turner finished 13th in his final Cup start,and perished in a plane crash that was caused by one of his engine's being refueled with the wrong fuel. Turner took Golf Pro Clarence King with him. 136. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the AllStar Gimmick Festival next weekend" I wonder who's gonna win the "Fan Vote"... 137. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He's lucky he's not a dick and make him change it 138. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fan Vote can be rigged Home Depot and Logano proved that some years ago. 139. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I wonder who's gonna win the "Fan Vote"..." We all need to band together and vote for Dave Blaney. 140. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Don't forget, you have to be on the lead lap to be eligible for the fan vote... she won't be. 141. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Fan Vote can be rigged Home Depot and Logano proved that some years ago." lol, Obviously. I'm not sure if you caught my sarcasm on that post. It's pretty obvious that they will pull enough strings to get BoB into the race. But overall, yes, the All Star Race is a total joke (that is held on one of the worst tracks in the sport to boot). 142. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenny, trust me you don't want to be here. It's lovebug season. 143. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would highly recommend checking David Smith's site out. I was a freeloader for a few months before subscribing about a year ago. With that site, along with Racing-Reference, I get every statistic I'll ever need as far as NASCAR goes. Solid lead lap run for Travis Kvapil, currently running in 18th place. 144. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think they changed the Fan Vote rule to that your car has to be "drivable". 145. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr is still moving up Rainbow Dash:aw yeah 146. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "you have to be on the lead lap to be eligible for the fan vote..." ..with a car in raceable condition. 147. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Don't forget, you have to be on the lead lap to be eligible for the fan vote... she won't be." If that rule still applies, then they will just throw enough deBriS cautions to keep her on the lead lap. 148. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've just been voting for Bobby Labonte, as he's my favorite driver not currently in the All-Star Race. Plus, I want to see a smaller team pick up a nice check for participating in the All-Star Race, which the #47 team did last year. 149. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Stenhouse doing what he does best: Hitting the wall. 150. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mark sure is having an awful night. Two laps down in 31st. 151. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too be fair to Stenhouse if you haven't hit the wall at Darlington you ain't trying hard enough. 152. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) All this Hamlin/Chase babble makes me want to slam my head through a window. 153. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) D.W.'s comment about Tony Stewart suddenly picking it up in the summer is proof that he isn't a subscriber to Motorsports Analytics. Stewart can't pass anyone anymore, and that's something that can't just change just because the weather gets warmer. 154. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Mark sure is having an awful night. Two laps down in 31st." Dang, I forgot he was even in the race. I guess that says something. 155. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow Mark almost put Kyle in the wall. 156. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) I disagree, TeamPlayersBlue. I think that if you hit the wall at Darlington, you're trying TOO much. Kyle Busch has dominated he last 100 laps of this race without hitting the wall, and I'd say he's trying hard enough. 157. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I disagree, TeamPlayersBlue. I think that if you hit the wall at Darlington, you're trying TOO much. Kyle Busch has dominated he last 100 laps of this race without hitting the wall, and I'd say he's trying hard enough. 158. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) JEFF TO THE LEAD!!! WHOOOOOOO! 159. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) What a pit! 160. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Paul has two Identical Comments, 1 with a thumbs up and 1 with a thumbs down. Makes sense... 161. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Stewart can't pass anyone anymore, and that's something that can't just change just because the weather gets warmer." Excluding the restrictor-plate races, Stewart has only had plus passing efficiencies at Phoenix and Richmond. 162. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon just surpassed Darrell Waltrip in laps led at Darlington. Darrell has 1723,Gordon has moved into fourth all-time. 163. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Geez, who the help told the #24 pit crew to make a fast pit stop? I thought that that was banned for the #24 team after Texas 2010 when Chad Knaus demanded the quickest HMS pit crew.Whatever, I'm gonna enjoy this. 164. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) "Paul has two Identical Comments, 1 with a thumbs up and 1 with a thumbs down. Makes sense.." That was my funny idea. 165. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Fox should use Darrell's broom (and then another one) as replacements for the Waltrips. 166. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Mid-Race Report is 11 laps late. Thank you, MW, for picking Jeff to win. 167. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Geez, who the help told the #24 pit crew to make a fast pit stop? I thought that that was banned for the #24 team after Texas 2010 when Chad Knaus demanded the quickest HMS pit crew." I thought that was dirty pool playing by Chad Knaus, taking advantage of Jeff's pit crew after he crashed out. 168. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) You're a funny guy, JG24. Jeff Gordon goes from being the only Hendrick driver not being discussed in the first half of the race to being Michael Waltrip's pick to win. In the words of Ron Burgandy: "Well, that escalated quickly." 169. Benjamin Lowe posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This season Jeff Gordon has become NASCAR's version of Homer Simpson. 170. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "You're a funny guy, JG24." He's just a barrel of laughs, isn't he? 171. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle retakes the lead. 172. cjs3872 posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of couse, one thin that got Jeff the lead was pitting about five laps before Kyle Busch did. But prior to that, he had been running lap times comprable to what the leaders were running, but seemed content to stay about 5-6 seconds behind. Gordon's one of those drivers that you never quite know what he's up to. There's a reason he's won this race six times. 173. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another missed lead change by FOX... 174. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Chad may be a great crew chief, but he's a lousy human being as far as I'm concerned. 175. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another missed lead change. 176. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) No network takes advantage of the invention of instant replay more than FOX. Imagine if this FOX crew was covering NASCAR back in the 1970s, we wouldn't have a clue what was going on. 177. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burton two laps down. Damn it all to hell. 178. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) speaking of instant replay and stuff does NASCAR have its own cameras? or does it tap into the TV networks cameras? or does the network tap into NASCARs cameras? and im not gonna lie, I wish we had 43 on-boards, why dont we 179. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently Jeff Gordon is the seventh-biggest trender on Twitter in the U.S. 180. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought I saw a gas can fall in that one seen and I was right 181. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) thats strange considering how NOBODY watches NASCAR except rednecks who are too stupid to twitter #facebook 182. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darlington race record tonight? 183. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The top three drivers in the running order right now (KyBusch, Jimmie and Kahne) are literally the three drivers I hate the most. Other than that, this has been a good race so far! 184. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Somebody find DSFF and terminate him on account of the asshats in 2nd and 3rd. 185. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's not a good race if you like crashes and dumb driving, which sadly is about 60% of NASCAR fans today. 186. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Joey2448, I'm curious. What is the significance of the number 48 in your name if you're a Johnson hater? Schroeder51, Nico has a new assignment for you. 187. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jimmie and Kahne are in 2nd and third? quick distract NASCAR so they dont see the faux debris 188. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be shocked if NASCAR doesn't throw another Faux debris caution. 189. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually I take that back actually about 75% of NASCAR fans. 190. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I found it pretty sickening that the announcers were actually trying to explain why there haven't been any real cautions tonight. Um, maybe because nobody has had a major problem that was a danger to their competitors (I.e an engine failure or a crash)? Really not that hard to figure out. Then again, 75% of NASCAR fans only come here for the crashes, so it just goes to show which audience FOX caters to. 191. Jonathan posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) First time chatter, but, I'm actually interested in seeing if this will go green to the end. If it does, it'll be the first race at Darlington with only 1 caution since the 1966 Rebel 400, which Richard Petty won over Paul Goldsmith by 3 laps. 192. Benjamin Lowe posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (6) This race has been dreadful the true definition of the cure for insomnia. 193. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be shocked if NASCAR doesn't throw another Faux debris caution. - If a driver doesn't throw a piece of debris out first. That will happen before the end of the race because the aging of the track, racing the track itself, and new car have combined to make this race a perfect storm of clean and green racing. 194. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Legendary Panica performance in the making! 195. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Radio Sweetheart is at it again. 196. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree dreadful to see an actual race instead of a farce wreckfest. Don't worry Benny you'll have that next weekend. 197. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only eleven cars on the lead lap. 198. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently spotters and drivers keep reporting Debris on the track. 199. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, when I started using this site I was a fan of the Hendrick drivers in general, and while I still respect the success Jimmie has had, I just hate seeing him do so well all the time while teammate Jeff Gordon struggles. It's just so frustrating! The 2448 part of it also is the common password I use for things such as my email, facebook account, phone voicemail, etc....I suppose I started using it because the 24 and 48 teams are so synonymous with each other, or at least they used to be. 200. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey Logano just blew by Jeff Gordon and Kevin Harvick...a lap down. 201. Benjamin Lowe posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No I am not a fan of those farce races but I am not a fan of when someone gets out to a really big lead and just stinks up the show. 202. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've never pulled harder for Kyle Busch in my life. I REALLY don't want to see the 48 or 5 win. 203. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF must be fully focused on this race, as Johnson suddenly caught up to Busch. Schroeder, SEEK AND DESTROY!! 204. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nardy takes out the cone. 205. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I might have heard him wrong, but it sounded like D.W. compared Jimmie Johnson to David Pearson a few minutes ago. Ugh, where to start. Those two neither race the same way, nor do they have the same personality or likability. The only thing that they have in common is a lot of wins and titles, and that's where the comparisons should end. 206. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though Montoya is a lap down, he's still having a good run in 11th. Judging from his Richmond performance and his solid runs in other races (including this one), he just might finally get that oval win at some point this year. 207. Benjamin Lowe posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Teamplayersblue how dare you think that I am one of those people who only want a race full of crashes and fake debris yellow well you are totally wrong on that sir. I just don't care that much when someone gets out to a really big lead and just stinks up the show by dominating the whole race. (see 1999 Kmart 400) 208. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Incredible that Gordon is still 4th after all this. 209. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darrell compared Jimmie's Darlington driving to Pearson's, I think. That's even worse. 210. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 5th sorry. 211. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regan Smith with a left rear down. Caution. 212. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's your caution... 213. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ....and the caution is out is jimmie going to win? 214. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least it was legit... 215. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How did Darrell not see that Regan had a flat rear tire? 216. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That lone debris caution is looking more legitimate all the time. Caution! 217. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race is shaping up to be like the 1998 Southern 500 in fewest cautions category and a Hendrick driver pouncing on the race's dominator. 218. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "How did Darrell not see that Regan had a flat rear tire?" He must have trouble seeing these days, because earlier he said that Kenseth's car was orange. Like I said then, it's probably because he's worn his eyes out from spending too much time looking at BoB's bright green race car. 219. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson's team made some pretty significant adjustments. 220. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle has led the most laps meaning gibbs have led the most laps 8 times in 11 races. 221. AveryNH posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was actually growing fond of tonight's pace. We were set to end by 10:30. Now I'm little skeptical. Things could get interesting here on the restart. 222. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Of course Gordon loses a spot on pit road to a car that was three seconds behind him before the caution. Worst pit crew on a competitive team in NASCAR. 223. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stewart gets into the wall off of turn two. 224. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, was that 30 second replay of Stewart hitting the wall really necessary? 225. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hard hit by Casey Mears. 226. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mears crashes!! 227. JRacingFast posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Wow, was that 30 second replay of Stewart hitting the wall really necessary?" Of course it was....why show the 3 wide racing mike joy was talking about when you can show a car barely kiss the wall... 228. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski and Mark Martin have not had fun tonight... 229. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently there was a 3-wide pass in turn 4 that only Mike Joy saw. We, as the TV audience, were relegated to a long slow-mo replay of Stewart scraping the wall. That's a shame for Casey Mears. 230. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) thank God Casey Mears has Geico! 231. Benjamin Lowe posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Because the Fox crew is full of clowns who have no idea how to cover a race. 232. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol @ jabber1990 XD 233. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth spun the tires. 234. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why the hell did that happen? 235. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course the car in front of Jeff has a terrible restart. 236. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOX!!! Again with the replays! Matt Kenseth ruined Jeff Gordon's restart. Not saying he's at fault, but it just sucks. And it allowed the Emotionless Juggernaut and Kandy Kahne to slip by into 2nd and 3rd. 237. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great battle between Hamlin and Montoya. 238. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd be happy if Gordon at least got a Top 5. Don't mind the Kyle domination. 239. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's that flaming car behind the Target car? Oh yeah... Da dum da dum da dum da dum da dum da dum da dum... 240. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Josh Wise in the wall. David Reutimann with damage. 241. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Josh Wise and David Reutimann crash. Caution. 242. AveryNH posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ouch the 35 and 83 are both torn up pretty good. 243. 13 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) This race has been borderline worse than english class and Brad Keselowski has no luck in the past 3 races:( 244. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) See? The side-by-side view can be useful. 245. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon made up a position on pit road!?! This is a good omen! 246. The Final Gear posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's the Danica improvement buffer... She's improved 3 spots coming back to the same track, she's still down 6 laps. 247. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "This race has been borderline worse than english class" Uh, no, I think I'd rather watch a race than go to English class. 248. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) 48 pit crew was a bit slow, so let's watch Adolf Knaus fire everyone. 249. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate seeing smaller teams crash, much less two in one wreck. David Ragan's car is being pushed back to the garage. 250. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Uh, no, I think I'd rather watch a race than go to English class." I hear that!! Though, the way some NASCAR fans type, that is probably exactly what they did. 251. 13 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well i would to but this comes close 252. AveryNH posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Regan blew up. He was pouring out water on the restart. Finally boiled over I guess 253. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I love Kyle Busch! 254. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow Kasey. 255. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) WHOOOAAAAA!!!!!!!!! 256. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is NASCAR. 257. jabber1990 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "this race has been borderline worse than english class" when I was in high school it was full of beautiful women...although most of them were out of my leauge and I also belive many of them didnt wear underwear. that has neither been confimed or denied, I get mixed answers 258. 13 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well at least Kasey tried to make it interesting 259. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, that was just a racing deal. 260. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is like Richmond 2008 all over again. Kyle Busch gets loose and takes out a popular Hendrick driver, and will probably be shit-stormed all over the internet this week once again. 261. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Darrell choking on Toyota money. 262. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey guys, I just found out a creepy trend. It held through at Daytona, Richmond, Talladega, and now today. Everytime my girlfriend calls, crashes start happening. At Daytona she only talked a few minutes, but it caused the second big one. She talked during the 'chaos' in the last few laps of the Richmond events, during the second big one last week, and then she called 10 minutes before the second caution today. We've been talking the entire time since. Good Lord. 263. AveryNH posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think he clearly rubbed him. How do you not see that paint scuff Darrell? Your outta here!! 264. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Second week in a row that Kyle wrecked Kasey. And third time this year! That move (kinda) worked in 2003 between Kurt Busch and Craven with two laps to go. Goddamn, Samantha Busch is so damn hot! 265. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) 20 somethings women with pitchforks won't beat around the Busch. Samantha Busch is more anxious than Kim Burton. 266. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dang you, Kenseth!!!!! 267. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) .....Literally two laps after a restart......FOR SHAME, FOX!!!! 268. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fox is the armpit of Nascar coverage. 269. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm surprised Darrell Waltrip can talk with all the $h!t in his mouth. 270. Peter posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) God damn I hate Joe Gibbs Racing!!! 271. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) According to Mike Joy, this is Hamlin's first race back since his injury. Facts don't matter when it comes to FOX. 272. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Kenseth is a pansy. 273. Kenny posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fluttershy jr is 9th Fluttershy:yay 274. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Joooooooooonyer's still in the race? 275. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Black flag the 83. There is no way he is running minimum speed. 276. Benjamin Lowe posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) No Murb FOX is the Outhouse of NASCAR Coverage. 277. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "According to Mike Joy, this is Hamlin's first race back since his injury." In his defense, he meant "full race". 278. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Black flag the 83. There is no way he is running minimum speed." Hi David Hoots. 279. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Geesh the 83 is slow. 280. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, That works too Ben. Darrell thinks Kyle hit the wall. That may be the most accurate observation he's made all night because Kyle really is falling off. 281. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another 2003 coming our way? 282. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In his defense, he meant "full race"." In his defense, he works next to Larry Mac and D.W., so his mind doesn't always work correctly. 283. The Long Shot posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reutimann back in the garage. 284. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hi David Hoots." HA! That would be a fun job, except for the debris cautions. 285. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm pretty sure Kyle hit the wall 286. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh please just take each other out. 287. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mega-Ultra fade for Kyle. 288. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth: David Pearson? 289. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Come on Kenseth get a jgr 123 290. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Will NASCAR throw a debris caution ala Texas to help Kyle make HISTORY? 291. 13 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boy is Kyle gonna Bitch and moan if he doesnt win this thing 292. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At this rate Hamlin will get second. 293. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a run by Gordon. 294. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff to third! 295. joey2448 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've been meaning to say this, but Hamlin's run is damn impressive, I think! Kyle Busch has really fallen off bad. That sucks cuz I picked him to win in 24over48's prediction game... :( 296. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I wonder if this race will end up on DSFF's "Epic Kyle Busch Meltdown" list. 297. AveryNH posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. Absolutely epic fade by Kyle Busch. That car flipped a switch and mad a turn for the way worse. 298. The Long Shot posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What happened to that 18 car? He's sinking like a stone. He'll be lucky if he stays in the Top 5. 299. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt just needs to replace the zero on his car with a one behind the 2 and things would be complete. 300. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This feels like Jeff Burton 1998 in this race. Lost the lead with 19 laps to go and faded like crazy to 5th. 301. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kenseth!! 302. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) MATT WINS AT DARLINGTON! 303. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle: 6th 304. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow, congrats to Kenseth and interim crew chief Wally Brown on the win. I'm having a really hard time seeing someone beat him for the title this year. 305. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Jeff Gordon gets his 300th top five finish in his 700th career start. 306. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 300th career Top 5 for Gordon!!!! The first in the Modern age!! 307. The Long Shot posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The curse of DSFF has ended! 308. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guarantee you that a more mentally composed driver (i.e Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, Matt Kenseth) would have still managed a top five finish if they were in that #18 car. 309. Peter posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Get ready for another generic Matt Kenseth victory lane celebration 310. JRacingFast posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why can i see Matt Kenseth having a 2008 kyle busch type regular season then once the chase starts have nothing but bad luck? 311. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently Kasey Kahne's crew chief/spotter told him that he owes Kyle Busch three wrecks. Woah, we got a badass over here! 312. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) "Get ready for another generic Matt Kenseth victory lane celebration" You mean being grateful for the opportunity he's been given? Okay. 313. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Matt Kenseth's biggest career win in his own words. 314. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kyle Busch doesn't need other people to wreck him half the time he wrecks himself. 315. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm really happy for Denny Hamlin as well. I know that he is statistically the best driver at Darlington dating back to 2007, but to come back from a back injury and finish 2nd in your first full race back at Darlington of all places is pretty amazing. Congrats to he and that team. 316. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Yeah, pretty damn good run by Hamlin. Say what you want about his personality, but you have to admit that he's one of the toughest drivers currently around. 317. Peter posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "You mean being grateful for the opportunity he's been given? Okay." No, I mean he's like a robot 318. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Newman finished 10th after getting three Lucky Dogs. Good comeback for him. 319. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt says Southern 500 victory biggest victory of his career even bigger than two Daytona 500s. That should say it all. 320. The Long Shot posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Point Standings: 1. Jimmie Johnson: 423 2. Carl Edwards: 380 3. Matt Kenseth: 364 4. Dale Earnhardt Jr.: 359 5. Clint Bowyer: 349 6. Brad Keselowski: 326 7. Kasey Kahne: 326 8. Kyle Busch: 325 9. Aric Almirola: 317 10. Paul Menard: 315 11. Kevin Harvick: 315 12. Greg Biffle: 311 13. Jeff Gordon: 311 14. Martin Truex Jr.: 301 15. Jamie McMurray: 295 16. Ricky Stenhouse Jr.: 282 17. Ryan Newman: 276 18. Kurt Busch: 262 19. Joey Logano: 259 20. Jeff Burton: 258 Other Notables: Tony Stewart in 21st, Denny Hamlin in 27th, B.O.B. in 28th. 321. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon has as many Top 5 finishes at Darlington as Big E,tied for 3rd with 19. Gordon 19 in 33 starts Earnhardt 19 in 44 starts 209th career Podium finish and 18th at Darlington. 322. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IMO, the Southern 500 is the biggest race of the year. I don't care how big the hype or purse is for the Daytona 500, it doesn't get any bigger than 500 miles on the toughest, oldest, roughest track on the circuit. 323. Paul posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Gordon 19 in 33 starts Earnhardt 19 in 44 starts" Whenever you accomplish something quicker than Dale Earnhardt, that's a HUGE accomplishment. 324. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To show you how stupid some NASCAR fans are, after what they claim was tonight's "boring" race they should "take Darlington off the schedule", yep that stupid. 325. 13 posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Why can i see Matt Kenseth having a 2008 kyle busch type regular season then once the chase starts have nothing but bad luck? Because Joe Gibbs as a team folds in the chase with mechanical problems and bad luck and whatever else can possibly happen 326. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They just said that Kyle Busch had a flat right rear tire. That's why he fell off like that. 327. The Long Shot posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Flat right rear tire? He's lucky he didn't wreck. 328. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Flat right rear tire? He's lucky he didn't wreck." They actually said that it was "cut". It was losing air at a rapid rate. My bad for saying that it was flat, because you're right, if it was all the way flat, he wouldn't have made it. 329. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) Anyone who thinks Darlington should be taken off the schedule is outside their mind, TeamPlayersBlue. 330. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kasey Kahne backs off going into turn 1 and lets Kyle goes into the corner as low as he did, Kyle would've slid up the hill like he did and Kasey could've cut back under him and taken the lead and probably won the race. 331. Neal posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The pressure's (unfairly) on Tony Gibson now that Newman and Stewart are getting it turned around. He'll be the sacrificial lamb if Danica keeps putting on her rolling chicane clinic every week. 332. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) Hopefully Matt wins the Brickyard this year and he'll have all the crown jewels in NASCAR. A second Kenseth championship would be awesome when you consider the alternatives. Like Regan Smith's #7 team in the Nationwide Series, the #20 team in the Cup Series is making their former occupants look really bad. 333. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "take Darlington off the schedule" and we will riot, the Tea Party and occupy Wall Street will have nothing on the counter-anti-Darlington riot. 334. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *209th career Podium finish and 16th at Darlington. Gordon's Top 5 percentage at Darlington is .575% His Podium percentage is .484% Before I grew out my stouche Gordon finished 3rd at Martinsville I grow it out he finishes 38th,13th,11th,11th I cut it off and he finishes 3rd at Darlington. 335. cjs3872 posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Well, while Matt Kenseth's driving style reminds many of David Pearson, that red #20 reminds me of Gordon Johncock's red STP cars back when he won the Indianapolis 500 in 1973 and the championship in 1976, because that red paint job reminds me so much of the old Andy Granatelli STP cars that ran from 1967-'77 at Indy, as well as the cars of Nichels-Goldsmith in 1971 and Buddy Baker's car in 1972 when STP fist joined the Pettys. Those cars were the most distinctive cars in racing back then, and Kenseth's red car is so reminiscent of those old STP cars. And while many, including those on the FOX broadcast, say that incident with Kasey Kahne did not affect Kyle Busch's run in those final miles, I think it did because I think Kyle flat-spotted the right front tire, which is why his car pushed so bad in those final laps. He tried so hard to miss Kasey Kahne when he entered turn one too quickly (and Kahne isn't even sure there was contact), that he probably got on the brakes too hard or slid to try to miss Kahne, and quite possibly flat-spotted the right front tire, which was probably why the car pushed so badly after that. And Denny Hamlin quieted the doubters, myself included, because I don't think he should ever have run this race, but he certainly proved me wrong, because he not only ran the entire distance, but he finished second, moving up to 27th in points in the process. Jeff Gordon was third for his 300th top five finish, becoming just the fourth driver ever to reach that mark. He's now only one top five finish from tying David Pearson for third place, and his next real chance at that will probably be at Dover in early June. They say the great ones win this race, the toughest race of thm all, and not all the great ones have won this race (Tim Flock, Lee Petty, Benny Parsons, Rusty Wallace, and Tony Stewart are among the champions that never won this race), but Matt Kenseth joined the legends that have won the Southern 500 with his win. And with Roush struggling again (with the rest of the Ford camp), it makes Kyle Petty look more like a prophet when he said that Roush doesn't give his team and their drivers everything they need to win and be as successful as they can be. And it also makes Roush look dumb for releasing Kenseth. In all, the last seven days have been terrible for Roush. David Ragan, a former Roush driver, passes Carl Edwards on the final lap to win at Talladega, and now another of Roush's former drivers, Matt Kenseth, wins the Southern 500 after never really coming close with Roush. It also makes me wonder if a guy like Trevor Bayne would even want to continue driving for Roush because he was more impressive in his Nationwide races before joining Roush than he has been since he joined Roush late in 2000. I think the quicker he can get away from Roush, the better, but Roush has him tied up. 336. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ironically that comment was made on the Talladega facebook page. That's the kind of 'racing' they want to see. 337. David posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Before I grew out my stouche Gordon finished 3rd at Martinsville I grow it out he finishes 38th,13th,11th,11th I cut it off and he finishes 3rd at Darlington." JG24, keep the "crash 'stache" off. 338. cjs3872 posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well murb, that explains why Kyle fell back so suddenly. To have a car that dominant and then fall back so suddenly, he had to have either have an engine problem or a tire problem. I thought it was a flat-spotted riht front tire from his incident with Kasey Kahne, but a cut right rear tire is aso a good reason why he fell back like he did. The question now becomes what cut his tire? 339. Neal posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jarrett88fan - Is the Ickyard 400 really a crown jewel? It's typically one of the top 2 or 3 worst races of the year, and if it were at any track other than Indy it would've been dropped from the schedule years ago because of flagging attendance. 340. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) After Hamlin's second place run, the officiating body of NASCAR will likely compose a first draft of the Hamlin rule for 2014: Chase eligibility restricted to drivers running all 26 races prior to the Chase. 341. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Neal- Only because it is the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, as they can get away with the same thing Rockingham could not and the Rock is a better race track for stock cars and spectatorship. 342. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The hard racing between Kahne and Busch may have damaged that right front. 343. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth surpassed both Fred Lorenzen and Kyle Busch in career wins with his 27th. Ironically he passed Kyle for the win,and won it at Fred Lorenzens most beloved event. 344. 18fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They said the right rear is the tire that was cut on Kyle's car. 345. murb posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Believe it or not, I think I'm gonna agree with DW's theory that Kyle hit the wall in turn three with about 17 to go or whatever it was. It looked like he was riding the wall more and more each lap, so I think he finally kissed the wall enough to maybe cut that right rear. 346. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Darrell is actually quite observant for some reason when it comes to the 18 problems. In the 2008 All Star race he heard something from the 18 that he said sounded like an engine problem laps before the Gibbs guys and Kyle even noticed it. 347. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "Darrell is actually quite observant for some reason when it comes to the 18 problems." Anyone who has 3 Championships and a streak of 15 straight season's with a Short-Track win should have a very acute understanding of race cars. Darrell only needs to talk less and not speak to the audience in a patronizing way,and people would like him better. 348. Eric posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Matt is only 1 win away from tying Rex White. Right now Matt is having a middle of having a career year in Wins for a cup driver this deep in his cup career. I have to wonder how many wins Matt could have gotten if he left Roush for Gibbs or Hendrick sooner. I think Roush was holding back Kenseth in equipment. What this race also does is giving Matt an even stronger case for the NASCAR Hall of Fame and also improves Matt on the greatest drivers of all time list. I think Matt is very close being a lock for the NASCAR Hall of Fame if he's not a lock already. 349. Benjamin Lowe posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Kyle Busch's Performance tonight had to be one of the fastest sinking ships that I have ever seen. 350. JG24FanForever posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Fun Fact: Richard Petty finished 3rd in both Darlington races in 1987. Another Fun Fact: Jeff Gordon has a Podium finish with all 5 crew chiefs he raced with at Darlington. 351. Cornys posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Not a bad race! It was nice to see some long runs that weren't ended by fake cautions! :D Nice run by Matt and Hamlin, and I'm glad that Busch didn't win, even though it was his race to lose.. he lost it ;) Nice to see that somebody finally has HMS beat week in and week out. Maybe HMS will catch up and they will battle rather than one dominate the other as it typically seems to happen. I give this race a B. Not bad :) 352. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That #20 team realistically could have had won Daytona, Bristol, possibly Martinsville, and Talladega. Combined with Vegas, Kansas, and Darlington, the #20 has contended for more wins and won more races through 11 races than Logano ever did in four years. 353. TS1420 posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty decent race. Not one of Darlington's better races, but still better than the best that tracks like Las Vegas have to offer. Amazing how switching teams has taken Kenseth a quietly consistent top 5 driver but inconsistent winner to a guns blazing win machine. I bet Carl Edwards has to be kicking himself for not taking over the 20 when he had the chance. Too bad for Kyle's dominating run going south in the closing laps. But I think his dive-bomb & slide on Kasey ultimately led to his tire going down. Helluva run by Hamlin in his 1st full race back and at the toughest track on the schedule. Another ho-hum finish for Smoke. Had a decent top 10 run going but then stuffed in the wall and faded to 15th. At least Newman rallied got a decent finish for SHR. Danicancer did her usual and got lapped on like the 2nd lap. I wonder how long before Chairman Knaus tries to steal either Kasey or Jeff's pit crews. I give the race a 7/10. 354. Schroeder51 posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I'm home from the race now, and here's my thoughts. Not a tremendously exciting race for the first 300 laps (most green flag racing I've ever seen in a race I've personally attended in my life-I actually thought for a while they might actually go green to the checkered, but then I realized NASCAR would never let that happen), but things did heat up in the final 67 laps. All of Kasey's fangirls were jumping up and down and squealing when he battled with Kyle for the lead...and then got all their hopes crushed when he went right into the wall. I could barely believe that actually happened, either! Kyle had a tire going down? No wonder he dropped like a stone right at the end of the race. On the plus side, KENSETH! As for Gordon...hey, I'm happy with 3rd place and a few laps led! Much better than 30th. Where is he at in points now? And just a few other little tidbits...Ric Flair was there (He introduced the top 10 qualifiers during driver introductions)! And at one point, I saw someone's cap get blown out onto the race track...that was just something really random I observed. 355. Willy on Wheels posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny is back in business and this shows it! I hope he wins enough races to make it in the chase as a wild card 356. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.11.2013 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) Ric Flair at Darlington? Wooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 357. JG24FanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "the #20 has contended for more wins and won more races through 11 races than Logano ever did in our years." Kenseth in 11 races behind the wheel of the #20 wins: 3 Races led most: 4 Poles: 2 Laps Led: 781 Logano in 144 starts behind the wheel of the #20 wins: 2 Races Led Most: 1 Poles: 5 Laps Led: 337 Kenseth was always a true Master being held back by a team that really didn't fit his style. 358. JG24FanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ric Flair at Darlington? Wooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" He was there in 2010 for a fan signing. I didn't bother getting his autograph. Woooooooooooo!!! 359. murb posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hopefully he put the Figure Four on "Brainless" Brian and gave him some Flair Chops. WOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!! 360. JG24FanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) *Jeff Gordon has a Podium finish with all 4 crew chiefs he raced with at Darlington. 361. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Ironically he passed Kyle for the win,and won it at Fred Lorenzen's most beloved event." Fast Freddie said that when he was first hired by Holman-Moody, the one track that he wanted to win at was Darlington, which he did in 1961 and 1964. When Matt Kenseth said that winning the Southern 500 was the biggest win of his life, I immediately thought of Lorenzen's statement. It makes perfect sense because I think Kenseth is the Fred Lorenzen of his generation, and it's only fitting that he passes Freddie on the all-time wins list at his favorite track. "Darrell only needs to talk less and not speak to the audience in a patronizing way, and people would like him better." When he's not acting like a clown and over-hypes himself and the sport, he's a really insightful announcer. He's one of the more observant announcers in the sport today and always seems to know what's going on when a car has a problem or suddenly is moving up through the field. I like D.W. the analyst, it's D.W. the showman that I don't really care for. "Not a tremendously exciting race for the first 300 laps" I loved it! It reminded me of an old school NASCAR race with a lot of green flag laps and a lot of cars going laps down. When I watch a NASCAR race with supposedly 43 of the best drivers in the world, I expect to see minimal mistakes, which a race with few cautions is likely to produce. For the drivers to run over 100+ consecutive green flag laps twice on a track has difficult as this one and in a race as big as the Southern 500 before a caution was thrown (and neither of those were driver-related cautions), speaks volumes about the overall talent of these drivers. Some people may have been disappointed, but I don't care about them. I highly enjoyed this race, and even though I'm not a big fan of night time Darlington races, I walked away satisfied from what I saw. "Where is he at in points now?" Gordon is tied for 12th in points with Greg Biffle. He wins on a tiebreaker, and is currently in the Chase, due to having a higher best finish. 362. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Eric and JG24FF, that's exactly the point that Kyle Petty was making this past week when he thought that Roush does not give his drivers what they need to win more than they do. It's almost as if Roush wants his drivers to succeed, but only to a certain point, but he doesn't want them to dominate, as Carl Edwards was on the verge of doing a few years ago. And I go back to the fact that Trevor Bayne actually peformed better in the Nationwide Series before he got to Roush than he has since he got there late in 2010. When he was in that #99 Diamond-Waltrip Racing car then, it looked like he was in the verge of breaking out, but when he got in Roush's equipment, his career stalled except for winning the Daytona 500 in 2011, and it's stalled out again. And as for Kyle Busch having that cut right rear tire, I just hope that wasn't a result of someone from the grandstands throwing something onto the track after the incident with Kahne. Remember that Kahne's one of the most popular drivers and Kyle Busch is one of the least popular, and this is their third run-in this year. I wondered what could have cut that tire, and there's a possibility that it could have been something thrown from the crowd, and if it was that, it wouldn't be the first time that's decided a major NASCAR race. Back in 1963, Junior Johnson had the World 600 won, but ran over something thrown from the grandstands wth just a couple of laps to go, cutting one of his tires and handing the win to Fred Lorenzen, and again, back then Junior Johnson was one of the most unpopular drvers, while Lorenzen was always among the most popular. Let's hope the people in the stands didn't decide this race against a driver they don't like. 363. JG24FanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:24 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) *Jeff Gordon has as many Top 5 finishes at Darlington as Big E,tied for 4th with 19. 364. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Of course Paul, almost all of those drivers that got lapped got at least one of their laps back due to the wave-around, as twice in the last 100 miles, many cars took the wave-around, and the did it the second time knowing they wouldn't have to pit again. And if not for the four cars that didn't pit on the third caution, there would have been about 20 more wave-arounds on that caution because thy knew they didn't have to stop again. If I had to count, there were more than 30 wave-arounds in the last 100 miles, with some drvers taking two of them, and it would have been many more if not for some f those that didn't stop on the third caution period. But that's why I have a trong dislike for he wave-around. There were just nine cars on the lead lap at the time of the second caution, but 17 ended up on the lead lap at the finish, with some getting two laps back in the final 100 miles due to the wave-around. 365. Anonymous posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) 700 starts and 300 top fives. Wow 366. Schroeder51 posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was definitely a throwback seeing them run that long under the green flag twice...I'm not going say that was a bad thing at all (I'm actually pleased NASCAR didn't throw any BS cautions along the way...was the first caution actually legit? I know it was for debris). I think the only reason that might have disappointed me was because I was shooting some video of the race and I was kind of hoping I'd get more video highlights than I actually did! (I did get the aftermath of Mears' accident and Kenseth doing donuts on video, though.) 367. murb posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "was the first caution actually legit? I know it was for debris" They didn't show anything on TV, so I doubt it. 368. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Besides the 19 and 20 cars that got a lap back via the wave around on consecutive cautions, another astonishing thing about this race was Jimmie Johnson didn't lead a lap, despite running in the top 5 for more laps than anyone not named Kyle Busch. 369. JG24FanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 1:16 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) Drivers with at least 100 Modern era Top 5 finishes: -1. Jeff Gordon 300 -2. Dale Earnhardt 281 -3. Darrell Waltrip 276 -4. Mark Martin 271 -5. Richard Petty 221 -6. Bobby Allison 217 -7. Rusty Wallace 202 -8. Cale Yarborough 197 -9. Ricky Rudd 194 10. Terry Labonte 182 11. Bill Elliott 175 12. Tony Stewart 174 13. Jimmie Johnson 172 (Tied Benny Parsons for 13th tonight.) 14. Benny Parsons 172 15. Dale Jarrett 163 16. Jeff Burton 133 17. Matt Kenseth 129 (Surpassed Buddy Baker tonight.) 18. Buddy Baker 128 19. Harry Gant 123 20. Bobby Labonte 115 21. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 108 22. David Pearson 108 23. Geoffrey Bodine 100 23 drivers have 100 or more Top 5's 7 driver's have 200 or more Top 5's 1 driver has at least 300 Top 5's Gordon reaching 300 Top 5's is the equivalent of an MLB pitcher reaching 400 wins in this day and age. 370. Schroeder51 posted: 05.12.2013 - 1:25 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) #324 Were there REALLY idiots actually calling for Darlington to be removed from the schedule just because there was only one caution in the first 300 laps? It may not have been a race of high excitement during that time period, but at least it felt genuine to me watching it from the stands...I would eagerly take that over a race with 35 cautions flags, 200 laps of caution, and only 10 or so healthy cars left at the end of the race. Obviously, I'm exaggerating, but it's sadly true that probably 80% (that might actually be an underestimation on my part-I heard several fans behind me under the Kasey Kahne caution talking about how they wanted to see "some big ass wrecks with flying fenders and flaming cars") of NASCAR's "fanbase" would prefer to see a race of THAT variety. If people seriously want to see Darlington kicked off the schedule just because they didn't tear up half the field tonight, then they officially void their right to call themselves a NASCAR fan. 371. MStall41 posted: 05.12.2013 - 2:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (7) Thought this was somewhere between a boring and a decent race. Once again Darlington gets a pass among many hardcore fans "because it's old school". Objectively I thought this was one of the worst races in a year where most of the races have been excellent. More natural cautions probably would have spiced this one up a bit. All that being said, any fan calling for Darlington to be removed is a special kind of idiot. 372. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:00 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Am I redeemed? Kenseth wins, Gordon ran great all night and finished 3rd ahead of Jimmie, and KyBu throws in the towel in the end once Kenseth passed him (deflating tire my ass, his car never wiggled, he just quit once things got tough like he always does). Will you guys allow me to go to Martinsville in the Fall now? Anyways some thoughts from a hot, humid, exausting, but fun as hell day: -Matt Kenseth is definitely the closest thing to Pearson. That was classic Silver Fox tonight. He would make up ground on runs, get to Kyle, then seemingly stall out everytime, but he was just toying with them, making sure he still has his horse at full strength under him in the end. Now that he is away from Roush who, as Kyle Petty so truthfully put it, was an anchor to him, his future is looking good. And congrats to his son Ross who won on this same night in South Boston. -Funny story about the weather: I got to go in the NASCAR hauler while my buddy and David Hoots chatted it up. I was looking at their radar which looked good. I told David how I heard it was supposed to be pop up showers in the afternoon, but ok at night. Hoots looked at me and said "think of it this way, if you could do your job as good as a weatherman, you'd be fired by now". We all cracked up laughing. -Stalker alert! I stalked Brad forever to get him to sign my official 2012 championship hat. But I couldn't find him. After the drivers metting he went to his motorhome instead of his huler like last year to hide from me rest before the race. So I just hung out in front of the driver intro gathering area and ran after him as he walked towards it and he signed it. Afterwards a Darlington security guy told me not to do that again. I told him that is the only autograph I wanted and I was leaving to go to my seat. -On the Martinsville page I described the benfits of BoB's presence in NASCAR, namely the amount of younger women who were wearing tight tank tops at Martinsville. Well here, so close fo the coast, there were once again many young ladies, and they had on really short shorts. Most of their legs were phenomenal. I'll be seeing them in my dreams for a while! -Speaking of BoB, this was her worst race yet in my opinion. Ag a track she had already raced Cup at, she was way off the pace from the word go. Just embarrassingly slow. She would have finished even more laps down, but they kept short pitting her, and took the wave around twice. No progress. -Kasey needs to deal with KyBu and quickly. It is obvious Kyle has no care about Kasey when racing around him, and he has no reason to. Kasey needs to change this. First off, the move he made into turn 3 showed me something I hadn't seen from Kasey before: balls. Secondly, that is three times he has wiped Kasey out being careless. Do you think he would have been that careless around Jeff Gordon? Of course not. 373. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.12.2013 - 4:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm surprised the security guy didn't say "I'm a Jeff Gordon fan, so you're the jerk responsible for this pig Johnson's success!" and hauled your butt off to jail. Honestly, I don't think the lack of cautions speaks of the talent. I think the cars are that easy to drive now. 374. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.12.2013 - 6:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul I second that I view the southern 500 as the crown jewel of nascars schedule and the regard that all the drivers hold for the race and the track just make it mean that more. Cjs has proved spot on with his prediction that the fords will struggle this year and Edwards dominant phoenix looks more and more lonely. Hendrick and Gibbs are significantly ahead of the rest of the field with gibbs with what seems like a little extra horsepower. It is also key for the sake of the championship that Hamlin makes the chase so that another title contender makes the filed rather than just a field filler. 375. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.12.2013 - 6:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Get your F1 picks in by 8AM! 376. JG24FanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) For all the Gordon fans that missed his pre-race interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KywLGKgMXM&NR=1&feature=endscreen 377. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) So I guess the cars were too easy to drive in 1993 and 1998... 378. Anonymous posted: 05.12.2013 - 8:15 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Darlington should be switched with Atlanta that way the Southern 500 is back on labor day weekend like it should be. Rockingham should also be put back on the Cup schedule. 379. Anthony posted: 05.12.2013 - 8:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to JG on his 300th Top5 & 700th start. I missed everything but hey if this were his 301st Top5 which to tie David Pearson who has won 10x at Darlington. Jeff Gordon's Top5 Pecentage would be exactly 43%. But because there's so many numbers to round we can still say its 43%. That's a good stat right there :) Goodbye... 380. Baker posted: 05.12.2013 - 9:50 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) First race I have watched flag to flag and I didn't see a difference in the cars from previous gens to this gen6 car. It was still a lot of the same as numerous drivers ran down Kyle Busch several times until they got to his bumper and the air wouldn't allow them to pass until he had a right rear going down late in the race. I see Kyle Busch still has the opposite of a golden horse shoe stuck up his butt. DSFF always wants to blame all his bad finishes on weak mindedness and epic melt downs when in all reality the races Gods just won't give him a break the way the Hendrick dicks get breaks every week. It appears that my favorite driver is over the hill. I haven't been watching, but Tony Stewart's results have been down rigth pathetic and I kind of see why now. I don't think he made a single pass after the quick ones at the start of the race. Any time a car got anywhere near him he never once tried to race for position he just rolled over like a tired old vet. If this is where his career is going then I may give up NASCAR all together and not watch the select races I want to see him win. Congrats to Kenseth. I never liked him because he always seemed to be a 4th-9th place driver at best and would steal wins based on other drivers bad luck. I am starting to see now that Jack Roush simply wasn't giving him the cars he deserved. I will be routing for him(2nd in line behind Tony) to win the Brickyard 400 later this year. 381. David posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon led 16 laps in this race, which was 16 more than Jimmie Johnson led. Wow. 382. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, what's happening in regards to Kyle Busch and Kasey Kahne is eerily similar to another man who used to drive the #5 car, Terry Labonte. In Labonte's case, the guy who used to bully him was, of course, Dale Earnhardt, Sr. Dale, Sr. and Terry were always great friends, having come into the sport together in 1979, but Earnhardt also knew that he could bully Labonte ay time he wanted to because he knew Labonte wouldn't retaliate, and Dale, Sr. did bully him at least thre times I know of, twice at Bristol, as well as the 1987 All-Star Race when Earnhardt practically ran Labonte off the track. Kyle Busch is doing the same thing with Kasey Kahne. He knows he can be more aggressive with Kahne because Kahne's likely not going to retalite against him, though he did do so once before at Loudon years ago. I've said it numerous times, but it bears repeating. Drivers, especially the top ones, know who they can mess with and who they can't, and Kyle Busch knows he can mess with Kahne without reprisals, so he takes a few more liberties with him, but you're right DSFF, if it were Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, or someone like Harvick, Montoya, Edwards, or Keselowski, there would be almost immediate reprisals. And there's no way Kyle Busch races any of those guys like he raced Kahne late in the Southern 500 beause he knows he can't get away with that with those drivers. But he knows he can get away with it with someone like Kahne. It's called knowing your competition, and Kyle appears to know Kasey like a book. And Kubica Fan Ireland, the reason I said that the Fords would struggle this year was because of the driver line-up, though with one excepton (Sam Hornish, Jr.), I didn't think that would carry over to the Nationwide Series as much as it has. I knew Roush would struggle over in the Nationwide Series because he doesn't have a driver that will hustle the car the way Roush likes his drivers to, but I didn't even think it would be this bad. If Roush doesn't put one of his Cup drivers in his third, part-time NNS car, he probably goes winless in that series for the first time. And has anyone else noticed that Penske's teams, Nationwide included, began to struggle when ths thing about the rear suspensions came up, because that has also appeared to affect his Nationwide team in unsuspected fashion. 383. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) No Baker, Kyle just quit once Kenseth passed him. He may as well have just parked it. Once again, the comparisons and the polar opposite results between The New Jeff Gordon and The Old Jeff Gordon are startling. If Jeff had Kyle's car (JGR badly out horsepowered HMS all night, the restarts had the HMS guys getting SMOKED) he would have won. Also, to cjs' point about drivers knowing who they can bully and doing it, Jeff can bully Matt anytime he wants, so Matt would have had "issues" getting around Gordon. And how about this stat: As we all know this was Jeff's 700th start and 300th Top 5 over 20+ seasons, 88 wins and 4 championships, all this time and years and all this front running, he has only twice, TWICE, blown a race he had won due to an unforced error (Pocono '95 and Texas '07). That is insane! How many times has KyBu already done that. And Jeff has never ever EVER thrown in the towel like that late in a race. I know, the one blemish on his career, is his tendency to kinda fade at the end of seasons, but it isn't due to a lack of effort. Actually I don't know what it is due to. But seeing the way each has handled what the sport throws at them emotionally is stunning. I can see Kyle is trying to change, trying to be a better person (he is off track), trying to be a better guy for his team. But last night shiws he has a ways to go. 384. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:28 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) DSFF, it appeared that Kyle Busch quit after being passed by Matt Kenseth, but what he was actually doing was to try to nurse the car home with a cut right rear tire. In fact, after the race, it was revealed that the right rear tire had only 12 pounds of air left because of how it was cut, and those that saw that tire noticed the hole in it. Trust me, Kyle was going as hard as he could, but he only had three good tires, so it was a minor miracle that he didn't crash in those final laps. I'm not the biggest Kyle Busch fan, but you might want to check the facts before you make such a statement, and the fact was that Kyle drove the last 15 or so laps with a cut right rear tire. Once he realized he was having a problem (he didn't know what it was at the time), Kyle did what he should have done, which was to bring the car home in one piece. And Gordon has 87 wins, not 88, and he has blown races in the bag more than twice, but he hasn't blown that many over the years. And I disagree that Jeff can bully Matt Kenseth any time he wants, because he's also been on the receiving end of Matt's bumper a couple of times in his career, so he knows that Matt will come back at him, something that Kyle Larson learned Friday night. But Matt would not have had any problem geting around Jeff Gordon, or anyone else that had a cut tire. The fact that Kyle was still able to bring the car home sixth was, as I said, a minor miracle. 385. The Sound posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) If I remember correctly, Jeff spun at The Glen in 2007 while leading with less than five to go. 386. The Long Shot posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (2) (1) "No Baker, Kyle just quit once Kenseth passed him." Kyle didn't quit. He had cut a right rear tire a bit earlier in the race and was simply trying to nurse it home to the finish. 387. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) That is Dave Rodgers covering Kyle's ass. First off, if it was the right rear tire that was cut, why was Kyle on the radio screaming "tight" and yelling about the right front tire? And I watched it, Kyle wasn't nursing shit. He was just quitting like he has done many times in his career. He was doing fine, going straight, not wiggling, and able to fight with Matt for a while. But Matt was laying back all night, and once he got past Kyle, right then Kyle dropped like a rock. So if he did cut a tire, it just so happened to be right after Matt passed him. Given Kyle's history, are we really supposed to believe that? I'm going with my gut and history and eyes and scanner traffic and calling bullshit. Even if he somehow did cut that tire right after he got passed, his history gives us no reason to cut him any slack. The whole story makes no sense anyways. Can you guys really imagine Kyle "nursing" anything home? If he really had a tire going down, he'd have put it in the fence. He threw in the towel because he is mentally weak. As for Gordon at Watkins Glen '07, I don't really ccount that cause it is unclear whether or not Tony could have passed him, he was coming and Jeff had to press to stay ahead. Remember, Tony was only behind cause he made the exact same mistake earlier in the race. I'd argue that was a "forced" driving error for a race he probably would have won, but not for certain. At Pocono '95 and Texas '07, nobody was touching him until he made his unforced error. The fact that he has only done that twice in 700 starts over 20+ seasons, fighting for wins SO many times over that stretch in these 400 and 500 lap/mile marathons says a lot. People like to just focus on Jeff's numbers. I like to focus on how he got those numbers. 388. Mr X posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't see how having a RIGHT REAR tire going down results in what Kyle himself described as the car going massively tight all of a sudden. I may believe the tire story but not a right rear. 389. Mr X posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Given a flat right rear tire I don't think that adding rear brake bias as Dave Rogers requested Kyle do would help much either. Sorry to Kyle Busch fans but there was a whole in that story from the minute it was uttered. There may have been some issue, but it wasn't a right rear tire. 390. David posted: 05.12.2013 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So, with this race in the books, the locked-in portion of the All-Star Race field is set: 2012/2013 race winners: #20 Matt Kenseth #11 Denny Hamlin #14 Tony Stewart #2 Brad Keselowski #39 Ryan Newman #16 Greg Biffle #18 Kyle Busch #48 Jimmie Johnson #5 Kasey Kahne #22 Joey Logano #88 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. #15 Clint Bowyer #24 Jeff Gordon #9 Marcos Ambrose #29 Kevin Harvick #99 Carl Edwards #34 David Ragan All-Star Race winners from last 10 years (2003-2012): #55 Mark Martin #78 Kurt Busch Champions from last 10 years (2003-2012) N/A 391. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And like it or not David (and I don't), we can almost certainly add Danica Patrick to that list of those that will be in the All-Star Race because she will almost certainly get voted in, as long as she doesn't wreck her car in the preliminary (and they may just run half-heartedly if what I believe is true), which leaves two spots open. Persnoally, I believe thay Aric Almirola should be in since he's curretnly in the top ten in points, but of those not in that should race their way in, the heavy favorites woul be Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. and Martin Truex, Jr., who I think should be in since he was in the Chase last year. I personlly believe that any driver in the Chase should automatically be in the All-Star Race the following year, and any driver in the top ten in points after the last race prior to the All-Star Race should also be in the All-Star Race, which would put both Almirola and Truex in. And as for the story regarding Kyle Busch's cut tire, I believe it because the reporter who first broke that story saw that tire, and it had a hole in it, so tht would be first-hand knowledge that the tire was, indeed cut. But speaking of drivers that have quit on their team, last night's effort, if you can call it that, by Marcos Ambrose was another pathetic one, as he ran in the 30s all race long. I personally believe that Marcos Ambrose has quit on his team, and I expect a driver change in the #9 car, possibly before the end of the season. And what was up with Mark Martin last night? That may be the worst I've ever seen him run anywhere, and Darlington has always been one of his best tracks, going all the way back to 1983 when he finished third in the spring race driving for Jim Stacy. 392. David posted: 05.12.2013 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And what was up with Mark Martin last night? That may be the worst I've ever seen him run anywhere, and Darlington has always been one of his best tracks, going all the way back to 1983 when he finished third in the spring race driving for Jim Stacy." I certainly haven't seen all of Martin's races, but last night was one of the worst races of his career, and easily the worst race I've ever seen him run. He was so invisible, I actually forgot that he was in the race. 393. ch posted: 05.12.2013 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Changes: 19 - G-Oil 20 - Husky Tools (Should be this for Talladega too) 33 - Circle Sport 95 - Leavine Family Racing 98 - Phil Parsons Racing 394. Anonymous posted: 05.12.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica isn't a lock for the fan vote since she would have to finish on the lead lap to get it. 395. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#394), that used to be the rule, but it was changed a few years ago to where all a driver has to do to be eligible via the fan vote is to have their car in tact. So if Danica decided to park it and got the fan vote, she'd still be in it. 396. jabber1990 posted: 05.12.2013 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lets assume that NASCAR decides to run the southern 500 on Labor day again (although I did agree with what that one previous poster who said "second to last race of the year") should it be ran during the day or during the night? 397. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) By the way, having looked at Jayski's page on the All-Star Race, it appears that they changed that rule back to the way it was in regards to having to finish on the lead lap, because the last couple of years, that stipulation didn't exist. And jabber1990, if they do run this race on Labor Day weekend again, it would need to be run under the lights so the heat wouldn't be a major factor, either for competitors, officials, or spectators. In fact, I believe that's one reason why attendance was down so much at last year's Indianapolis 500, because of the blistering heat. (Last year's Indianapolis 500 was the hottest in the modern history of the race.) Unfortuntely, weather would still be a major factor because of rain, thunderstorms, and even remnants of hurricanes, which was a big reason they moved this race off of Labor Day weekend to begin with. 398. Anonymous posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, but the press release here said lead lap: http://www.nascar.com/en_us/news-media/articles/2013/03/20/sprint-fan-vote-nascar-sprint-all-star-race-charlotte-motorspeedway-2013.html 399. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Day race. People talk about "keeping the fans out of the heat". Here is the real deal: you don't just show up to the track 30 min before green flag time. If you don't want to be in a traffic nightmare and want to get decent parking close to the track, but not so close that you can't just drive right out, you better get there early. And the majority of the fans don't live super close to the track. Take me and this race for example: I live 2 and 1/2 hours from the track. To get there and get a decent park and be able to enjoy the race experience, we arrived at about 11am just in time to get really hot. That meant we actually spent more time outside, during the entire heat of the day in the heat and humidity. Then sitting under those huge lights means getting eaten alive by the bugs. Compare that to Martinsville this year (which was also really freaking hot) by the time we parked, walked through all the souvenier rigs and fan zones, it is then 11am. The race starts a little over 2 hours later. The race will be over before sparing us a few hours of sunlight, leaving us less sun fried. Also the racing is better on sun beaten surfaces. 400. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) Day racing: the way God and Big Bill meant for it to be. 401. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2004 Southern 500 race was the best format. Second last race to championship so really important, starting and most of it's completion in day and then finishing at night. 402. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And hope not to require a trip to the hospital for heat exhaustion, DSFF, bcause there have been fans and even drivers that have had to go to the hospital for that reason, and a driver (Carl Scarborough in 1953) and fans have even died at Indy for that reason. Not to mention the chance of getting a bad sunburn or even skin cancer. My father actually got skin cancer on his face because of years of driving in the Southern California sun, which was magnified through the windshield (he drove cabs for years). 403. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I agree, TeamPlayersBlue, for a number of reasons. Not only do you have the toughest race on the toughest track, but then you magnify it with championship implications, and you're sure to get errors. And the way it played out, Jeff Gordon's crew, with their driver seemingly poised to win the race, made just such an error, costing Gordon the race, and quite possibly the championship, as he fell just 16 points short. ad he won that race, Gordon would probably have won the championship, as the points he lost were more than what he lost the championship by the following week. Plus it puts one of the sport's crown jewel races in a very important spot on the calendar. After all, after the Chase field is set, there are no significant races left, so there's hardly any focus from the general sports fans until the finale. Lead the Chase off with a big race, such as the Southern 500 or Brickyard 400, and I guarantee some major publicity for the start of the Chase, at least. 404. murb posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, there's way too many night races. This Mother's Day 500 at Darlington along with the Labor Day 500 at Atlanta (in my opinion, both crown jewels) need to be run in the day time. Unfortunately (as usual), it looks like Nascar hasn't gotten the memo, because they seem to be adding even more night races to the schedule. Starting next year, Brainless Brian and his stooges will flush another tradition down the toilet as the Speedweeks Duels at Daytona will be night races. What a shame. 405. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The real reason why Darlington will not be moved to Labour Day OR daytime anytime soon is that the Mother's Day Weekend night race has been a huge attendance success for Darlington and hasn't really declined in recent years like some other tracks have. They aren't going to risk what is an extremely successful event. I talked to Dennis Bickmeier and he says the same reason Richmond won't move any of their races for day races. 406. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Duels at Night are actually a good idea because attendance and ratings really lag for the race and have done for years thanks to it being during a school and work day. No more half term holidays after they moved Daytona back a week. 407. Baker posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) DSFF, you just are not seeing things objectively and never have. You can never give credit where it is due when its not one of your guys, and you give too much credit for your boys. 408. murb posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Duels at Night are actually a good idea because attendance and ratings really lag for the race and have done for years thanks to it being during a school and work day." You have a point. But that race has always sort of been a test race for the 500 (a day race), so in a way I feel like it's ruining one of the most important aspects of the Duel races. 409. Bronco posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Add Darlington 2013 to the long list of races where Kyle Busch has led the most laps (triple digits) but not won, since he started driving the #18. 2008 Bristol night race (415 laps led, his all time high for a single race) 2009 Coke 600 (173 laps led) 2009 Fall Texas race (232 laps led) 2010 Spring Phoenix race(113 laps led, this was the only 600km race in PIR history) 2010 Fall Charlotte race (217 laps led) 2011 Spring Fontana race (151 laps led) 2011 Spring Martinsville (Also led 151 laps a week later, in both races he finished 3rd while Harvick passed a HMS driver to win) 2011 Fall Charlotte race (111 laps led after starting in the back) 2011 Fall Martinsville race (126 laps led, got caught up in a late race crash) 2012 Kentucky race (118 lap led) 2012 Fall Dover race (302 laps led, lost due to fuel mileage) 2012 Fall Phoenix race (237 laps led) 2012 Homestead race (191 laps led) 2013 Darlington race (265 laps led) Throw in the two Watkins Glen races that he should have won, and Kyle should easily have well over 30 wins by now. 410. David posted: 05.12.2013 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am glad to see other fans sharing my sentiment about day racing. You just can't beat good old-fashioned racing on Sunday afternoon. The novelty of night races has long been worn off. 411. Schroeder51 posted: 05.12.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch should have at least 40 career wins by this point. Never have I seen a driver lose so many races he's dominated in recent memory. Can anyone name anyone else who's failed to win that many races in which they led the most laps? 412. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Cjs, did you not read my post? Night races means MORE time in the sunlight, especially in the really hot hours. This isn't your local Saturday Night weekly short track race (which btw is another reason to have mostly Sunday afternoon racing, they are killing the grass roots folks). To show up in time to get to your seat before the green flag and experience all the trackside stuff (in other words, make your ticket worth its price) getting to a night race before noon is a requirement. That mean doing all the activities (which involve a lot of walking around) in the dead heat of the afternoon. For day races you get to do all that in the relative cool of the morning hours. As for the drivers, if they can't handle the heat either get in shape or find another job you can handle. Or maybe even *gasp* spend the NWide race in your ACed motorcoach resting and hydrating instead of racing for meaningless victories (another possible explanation for Kyle last night, after racing for 700 miles plus who knows how many more practicing for both series in a two day schedule, was he just worn out?). Also day races are better for crew members who spend all day during night races in the garage preparing the car. And Baker, if you wanna be delusional and say I'm not objective to fit your views, go right ahead. But how many times have I referred to Dale as "an asshole" or relentlessly taken Brad to task for his NWide racing. He won the inaugural NWide race at historic IMS and could not possibly be less impressed by that, and talked about that openly last year, even sarcastically ridiculing his tremendous ass angle while he was kissing the bricks (quite frankly I'm disgusted they let him kiss the bricks). I have used sound reasoning, personal observations, and historical context when disputing Kyle's phantom flat tire. If you can't see my logic, then that is your fault. If Kyle were trying to sue his tire for going flat in court, he would get laughed right out once the evidence was presented. 413. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *I could not be less impressed by Brad's NWide win at IMS, even ignoring the BS restart call. 414. Baker posted: 05.12.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Relentless toward brad's nationwide? Haha an exaggeration at its finest. I will give you that you have your comments, however, you are far more tough on Busch, Harvick, Hamlin, Edwards, and even Logano. 415. Eric posted: 05.12.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, I went through Kyle dating back to his rookie season at. Kyle has 17 races that he led the most laps and didn't win. I am going through the big name drivers that start in the modern era of NASCAR to see if there is any driver that matches that. 416. Cornys posted: 05.12.2013 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's how I see night races: Concrete is for night races. It hardly changes due to the sun and just due to rubber on the track. Pavement (outside of the plate tracks) should be a day race because it changes greatly due to heat and sun when concrete doesn't unless it transitions from day to night like the Coke 600 or the Southern 500 (move the Southern 500 to start at 5PM, and it's golden in my opinion). Plate racing is a whole different animal, and only the Daytona 500 should be in the day time. It's more entertainment than racing (though it still is). I love that I'll be able to watch the duels this year without taping them, and if I lived in the area I'd like it as well. 417. Cornys posted: 05.12.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Immagine if they would have went with the low downforce model that they'd proposed for the Gen-6 car. I think that we would have been seeing more excitement. Not that there's been anything to complain about this year compaired to years past :). It's still been great. 418. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.12.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric I would say Cale Yarborough and Earnhardt are the only 2 to match kYle in terms of laps led to win ratio.Yarborough led over31 thousand laps and won 83 and Earnhardt won 76 leading over 25000laps while Pearson won over 100 races having led less laps and Waltrip won 84 races having led just over 23000. Rusty also has a high number of laps led to wins total due to his strength on short tracks which have more laps. 419. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.12.2013 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Sorry, Baker, but you need to shut the hell up on this topic. I have been here through all of this, and I will tell you that DSFF was HARSHER on Brad for running NNS races than he has been on Kryle Dusch this weekend. I think though that Kryle is the ultimate choker that racing has seen. Look at other series history: nobody else has the choke to win ratio that Kryle has. Yes, folks, I am reviving "Kryle." 420. Schroeder51 posted: 05.12.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If Kevin Harvick has "earned" the nickname "The Closer", than Kyle Busch ought to be called "The Anti-Closer". 421. Eric posted: 05.12.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kubica fan Ireland, I wasn't talking about thelaps led to win ratio. I was talking about the amount time a cup driver that had led the most laps in a race and failed to win. 422. Eric posted: 05.12.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, I corrected myself on Kyle Bush. Kyle has failed to win a cup race 23 times when he leads the most laps. That is even more than Matt Kenseth. Matt has lead the most laps and failed to win the race 18 times. I am going to do even more checking. 423. 29BUD posted: 05.12.2013 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great job Harv on a top5. Havnt been too strong so far. 424. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I like how the person who trashes HMS and all of its drivers, even wishing death and eternal torture on them, is complaining about other people not being objective. 425. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Baker, these are my comments at the time only on races that Brad won in NWide. Let's call this collection of quotes "The Wit And Wisdom Of DSFF" "Looks like, yet again, the NWide championship is merely a formality. At least this year it's somebody I like. I still don't like it" "Now Brad, please win your championship and focus on Cup next year" "Still hate seeing Cup guys dominate...... Hopefully Cup guys will at least be excluded from getting points and we can have a true NWide champ for the first time since '05." "Hopefully he cuts way back on the Nwide stuff next year" "I was actually hoping he would win and Brad, my favorite driver, would finish 2nd because that is what this Series needs" "I want NWide drivers to win NWide races and Brad to win Cup races." "I am a huge Brad fan, and even I'm glad I missed this one. NASCAR needs to create some more rules over the offseason. Enough is enough with Cup domination." "considering most of us here are big fans of Brad, and don't like Kyle or Carl, this argument has more validity when we complain about a Brad stinker. When we gripe about a Kyle or Carl runaway, there is always a "Yeah, but you hate those two" counter argument. Just like 18fan rallying against the system when Kyle dominates gives it more credibility, us Brad fans need to speak up in instances like this" "I'm a huge Brad K fan, and I am very glad I missed this. Cup driver, Cup team, domination, I don't like it" "for a lot of us Brad fans, his NWide success comes as more frustration than happiness. For me personally, it is hard to get excited about him blowing the field away in a lower Series against mostly less experienced drivers" "To me, seeing that he led 173 of the 200 laps, seeing that he apparently went from 14th to 1st in just 4 laps, is kinda embarrassing. It is like a big league slugger going to a Single A team (and taking a lot of his fellow big league teammates with him) and lighting up some 56th round draft pick pitcher." "Ugh, I hate Cup dominated NWide races, even if my driver won." "Seems like I would ditch the NWide stuff and try to save my Cup job. Of course I kept saying Brad should do the same in 2010. And 2011. And 2012 (limited schedule my ass). These drivers need to realize nobody cares about your NWide success when you have a full time Cup ride. " "Congrats to Brad for making it through a 200 lap race without speeding on pit road. Tomorrow we will try 300 laps." "Well folks you have witnessed history. In the historic Inaugural Indiana 250, history was made as Brad K historically etched his name in the record books of history as the first ever winner of this event. History books will show Brad's historic achievement in the same way they show Jeff Gordon's win in the inaugural Crown Royal Presents the Curtis Shaver 400 at the Brickyard in 1994. Today, history was made again. And Danica continued to make history as she becomes the first person in the history of this historic track to be the 2nd highest female qualifier in the field and the 2nd highest finishing woman in the history of the 2nd tier stock car racing Series. Nobody else in history has ever been the 2nd best female qualifier and 2nd best female finisher in the Historic Inaugural Indiana 250. So she continues to make history." ^my personal fave lol "he got to kiss the bricks with his ass pointed way up in the air like a dog in heat. How is this not historic? Look at all the pictures of people kssing the bricks, from the winners of the Crown Royal Presents The Ccurtis Shaver 400 at The Brickyard to recent Indy 500 winners and see if anyone else has a higher ass angle. That is history. " "Brad won? Damn, I hate when he has more NWide wins than Cup wins. " 426. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And just to give my two cents on night races, here's what I would do: - Have the Daytona Duels run in the evening so that more people can watch them, but always have the Daytona 500 run in the daytime. I'm indifferent about the Firecracker 400 and the Shootout. - Darlington and Atlanta should be run in the day. Period. And now that Fontana has finally got some character to its surface, I want that track to remain a day race also. - The fall Charlotte race and at least one of the two Texas races (preferably the one in November) should be run in the daytime. Daylight might be the only saving grace for those races. - Bristol night and fall Richmond should stay at night, but I would like to see the spring Richmond race being run in the day. - Keep Kentucky at night. There'd no sense in killing people from heat exhaustion for a race that's probably gonna suck anyways. 427. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I will give you that you have your comments, however, you are far more tough on Busch, Harvick, Hamlin, Edwards, and even Logano." And "even Logano"? I am the most brutal on him. And if it appears I am coming off harder on those guys than I am on Brad, it is because he has done something those others hve been unable to do: go toe to toe with the 48 in a Cup championship battle and win. Although I think I have shared the blame equally. 428. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Attendance: 65,000 429. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First attendance estimate I was able to find all year for the Cup Series. 430. joey2448 posted: 05.12.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, if Darlington went 50+ years without any disasters racing on Labor Day in the heat, I think they'll be just fine going back to a day race. You're really over-dramatic with your fear of getting burned or getting cancer. Obviously the risk is there, but most fans (I hope) are smart enough to use suntan lotion or wear a hat and shirt, and keep hydrated. Actually I take that back. I'm not walking outside today because the sun is out. 431. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Cjs says a lot of things that make you scratch your head. Last night he said that Jeff Gordon's next shot at getting a top five (and tying David Pearson at 301) would be at Dover, completely overlooking Charlotte. So did I just dream about him running in the top 3 all race at Texas last month? He has no chance at a top five in the Coca-Cola 600 in two weeks, even though he spent about 90% of the Texas race (Charlotte's sister track) in the top five? Sometimes he says things that make a lot of sense, but it's the little things like that that make you second guess a lot of what he says. As for Cup drivers running Nationwide races, I'm just glad that my favorite driver doesn't run in the Nationwide Series and that my second favorite only runs a handful of races for the small Phoenix Racing team. If Cup drivers only run a few Nationwide races and/or drive for non-powerhouse teams, then I don't have a problem with them running nationwide races. It's the Kyle Busch's and Brad Keselowski's, the Cup drivers who run a lot of Nationwide races for big teams, that I have a problem with. 432. Eric posted: 05.12.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, Kyle Busch doesn't have the most races that he failed to win despite having the most laps. Jeff Gordon has 2 times the amount of races Kyle failed to win despite having the most laps led. There is a lot of I would go through, but the fact is Kyle has a lot more times of leading the most laps and failing to win the race to get to Jeff Gordon. 433. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, the reason I say that Jeff Gordon has no shot at Charlotte has to do with the speed of the track and the cars. His car doesn't have raw speed and he won't push it on a very fast track. In fact, it would not surprise me if he ran outside the top 15 at Charlotte. The thing at Texas is that the race pace slowed down throught the course of a run because of the aging track surface. That's why he was able to stay competitve and actually lead that race. But the race pace at Charlote isn't likely to slow don hardly at all, which is why he's likely not to be very competitve there, and he same is true for Michigan in June. Rusty Wallace got on him last year at Michigan for not being as focused as he felt Gordon needed to be, but it was just that he would not push it on that fast a track. If a track demands that you push it down, Gordon's not likely to be a factor, but if a track requires finesse, like Texas, Atlanta, and Darlington do, he can run with the leaders, as he showed last night. 434. 18fan posted: 05.12.2013 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff does have a lot more starts though. Also, why does anyone even watch Nationwide races? They are won by Cup drivers most of the time and they get all of the attention. I think I've watched maybe 2 races this year. I would rather watch Truck races any day. 435. The Long Shot posted: 05.12.2013 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My feeling is that NASCAR should use the Nationwide Series as some sort of a minor league, while the Trucks can remain the same (not very many Cup drivers run even partial Truck schedules anymore). In my opinion, limit the amount of races a driver competing for Sprint Cup points can run in Nationwide to 7 (Nationwide or Truck drivers can run as many Cup races as they want). This will let Cup drivers pick and choose the races they want to run, and it will increase the competitiveness of the series by tenfold. The only people who won't be happy will be the sponsors, and, unfortunately, NASCAR is the most ad-dependent sport on the planet, so, in other words, it will never happen. 436. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I watch the Nationwide races because I want to witness moments like Hornish's win at Las Vegas and Regan's win at Talladega; moments when the underdogs come out on top. I also like seeing the younger drivers work their way up and see which of them have what it takes to compete, either in the Nationwide Series or in the Cup Series if given the opportunity. I don't want to be told which drivers are stars and which ones aren't, I like to see it for myself. Right now there are four full-time Nationwide drivers who I think can be successful in Cup if given the opportunity: Justin Allgaier, Parker Kligerman, Alex Bowman, and Kyle Larson. I'll even throw in Regan Smith's name, even though I consider him more as a "Cup driver with a full-time Nationwide ride," as opposed to just being a Nationwide driver. As much as I hate seeing Cup drivers make a mockery of that series, I enjoy seeing future stars in thr making, and those four Nationwide drivers, along with Regan Smith, keep me watching because I want to see what the future of the sport has in store for us. Besides, the Trucks have too many off-weeks, so I need another series to occupy my non-Cup watching time. 437. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.12.2013 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff was damned fast at the start of the runs at Texas as well though, so that doesn't hold. 438. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Before someone tries to dispel my positive remark about Justin Allgaier being a potential successful Cup driver, let me just run a few numbers of Allgaier's dating back to 2011: - His lowest PEER was 1.882, which was his only PEER ranking that wasn't classified as being a "fringe title contender." - His current 2013 PEER is 2.556, which is ranked 5th in the Nationwide Series, 3rd among Nationwide drivers, and 1st among drivers on non-Cup teams. Parker Kligerman is the only other driver who fits all three categories with a PEER of 2.000 or higher (another one of my four Nationwide-to-Cup picks). - Aside from his crash at Richmond, which was caused by Austin Dillon getting into him in the corner, Allgaier has posted a "relevant" finish in each of the nine Nationwide races (20th or better), and has only one other finish worse than 11th (15th at Las Vegas, one of his two non-lead lap finishes). He is also behind only Regan Smith in Nationwide relevance this season, as Smith is the only driver to have finished in the top 20 in each of his starts. - Also, he has never had a relevance rating worse than 84.85%, which is pretty impressive for a driver on a non-Cup team, and has never ranked worse than 4th among non-Cup team drivers in the relevance category. - Aside from right now, which is slightly skewed considering how few races have been run so far this season, his crash frequency has always been very low, and he only crashed between one and two times every 10 races in 2011 and 2012. - He has always had a positive top 15 efficiency rating, meaning that he finishes in the top 15 more frequently than he runs in the top 15. It should be noted however that he has never ranked 1st among Turner drivers in top 15 efficiency, but in two of those three seasons he ranked behind a part-time teammate (Mikey Kile in 2011, James Buescher in 2012, Nelson Piquet, Jr. in 2013; the latter of whom has the second-highest Top15E in the series this season). Personally, I think Allgaier has done all that he can at Turner Scott Motorsports, and if he can't obtain a more lucrative Nationwide ride for next season, then if I were him, I would seek a chance at running Cup next season. He seems to have a great relationship with his sponsor Brandt (which is based in his home state of Illinois), as well as a few of his associate sponsors. Plus, he would have a good chance at winning Rookie of the Year, as his only guaranteed competition would be Austin Dillon, who has all but thrown in the towel on his 2013 season and hasn't been all that impressive in his Cup appearances, so Allgaier would have a good shot at providing some extra revenue (not to mention an extra test date due to his ROTY status) for a Cup team if given the opportunity. 439. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I watch NWide to see Alex "The Real Deal" Bowman and Johanna Long when she has the money to show up. I wanna see them develop and succeed. Like Brad did. 440. Scott B posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone get the feeling that when the Chase rolls around, 2013 is going to be a "sponsor war" season... as in Lowe's vs. Home Depot? 441. Eric posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kubica fan Ireland, You mentioned Jimmie Johnson with laps led. I got an interest fact for you. Jimmie Johnson has only 1 more race than he led the most laps and failed to win than Kyle Busch did. That is a key stat considering the fact Jimmie has been in cup longer than Kyle has led more laps in his career than Kyle has. Kyle only has 9,302 laps in career compare to Jimmie having over 14,000 laps led in his career. Those two stat sshows While Jimmie has been cup longer, the driver and the team are more clutch than Kyle is and shows why Jimmie has won so many championships. 442. Eric posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott B, I do have a feeling it is going to be "sponsor War" when the chase comes around. The thing is Hendrick has to play catch up with JGR right now the amount of wins JGR has and the amount laps JGR has led. It boils to what team will be clutch during the chase and what driver makes a mistake. I think Loudon, Martinsville, Dega, Phoenix, and Homestead are the races that will make the difference if it comes down to the 20 and the 48. 443. JG24FanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few numbers from this event: Jeff Gordon became the exclusive member of the 300/700 club. Becoming the only driver in Cup history to log 300 Top 5 finishes and 700 consecutive career starts. Kevin Harvick's 191st career Top 10. Moving him ahead of Geoff Bodine for 30th all-time. Now Both Big E and Harvick,who took over his ride,have more Top 10 finishes than DSFF's main rug. And DSFF was there for it. Ryan Newman's 171st career Top 10. Moving him ahead of Rex White for 37th all-time. Kyle Busch's 147th career Top 10. Tying him with Wendell Scott for 48th all-time. Denny Hamlin's 130th career Top 10. Moving him ahead of Tim Flock for 53rd all-time. Juan Montoya's 53rd career Top 10. Tying him with Tom Pistone for 111th all-time. 444. David posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He has always had a positive top 15 efficiency rating" Having a negative T15E isn't a bad thing. Sometimes a driver will run in the top 15 all race long and crash out with 35 to go. For example, a driver could run in the top 15 90% of the time, and finish there 80% of the time, while another driver could run in the top 15 70% of the time, and finish there 80% of the time. One driver would have a T15E of -10.0% and the other would have a T15E of +10.0%, but they would produce the same results. Case in point: Jimmie Johnson won four of his five championships with a negative T15E, and three of those were classified as "aggressive". 445. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, that is the key "Jimmie Johnson attribute" in my opinion, his clutch ability, both in races and in championship battles. I put a ton of emphasis on that personally. So for a driver like him, the cha$e was a God send. 446. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've never stepped foot in a Lowe's store and have only been in a Home Depot store once or twice. It's all Menards for me because I support the little guy (Paul Menard). Speaking of Johanna Long, while her 2013 PEER isn't classified as "serviceable" (although it probably would be if she didn't have as many DNFs), she is ranked 15th in the Nationwide Series, 13th among Nationwide drivers, 9th among non-Cup team drivers, and 6th among single-car team drivers in PEER. She is also ranked ahead of nine drivers who have competed in all nine Nationwide races, most notably Trevor Bayne, Austin Dillon, Nelson Piquet, Jr., and Travis Pastrana. I'd say she's doing a really good job given her strength of equipment and the lack of any teammates or significant Cup support, and she would be doing even better if not for the poor finishes, most of which were out of her control. She got caught up in two big crashes late at Daytona and Talladega while running in the top 15-20, and had a broken axle cap at Texas that cost her three laps. The only wreck that was her fault was Phoenix when she plowed into Sam Hornish, Jr. entering a turn, punctured her radiator, and the water from her radiator got on her tires and sent her into the wall. In the two races where she didn't encounter any problems, she finished 19th at Las Vegas and 15th at Richmond (she seems to have taken to that track very well), the latter of which she finished on the lead lap (!!!). She, Jeremy Clements, and Mike Bliss get the most out of the least in the Nationwide Series better than anybody, and it should be no surprise that all three of them are ranked inside the top 15 in Nationwide PEER, with a PEER of 0.917 or higher. If it were up to me, all three of them would be in full-time competitive Nationwide rides. I'd put Johanna and Bliss in the two Roush cars (having a veteran, champion teammate to learn from would do wonders for her), and put Clements in the #3 RCR car (only a true "good ol' boy" should drive a car with that much prestige). It's a shame that results don't always generate rides, but if they did, those are the changes I would make. 447. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Denny Hamlin's 130th career Top 10. Moving him ahead of Tim Flock for 53rd all-time." He may have passed him statistically, but he'll never pass him in terms of greatness or likability. "Having a negative T15E isn't a bad thing." I know that. Case in point, Kyle Busch's Nationwide T15E is the 5th lowest in the series (fellow 2013 winner Brad Keselowski's is even lower). But having a positive T15E is better than a negative T15E, especially when the driver doesn't win very often, because it means that they're finishing better than they're running. If a driver has a positive T15E, it's always good. If a driver has a negative T15E, they had better have solid results to make up for their aggressiveness. Kyle, Brad, and Hornish have good results in spite of their negative T15E, whereas Bayne, Sorenson, and Dillon haven't had good results to make up for their aggressiveness and poor finishes. Their place in the points standings (even though Kyle and Brad aren't eligible for points) reflects that. 448. Eric posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder51, Kevin Harvick really shouldn't be called the "closer" because he doesn't completely live up to that nickname. Yes, Kevin leads final laps in a race, but what he does while leading the most laps in race tells you something different. I am saying that because Kevin failed to win a cup race 8 times when he led the most laps in races. That is a big deal because Carl Edwards has 4,329 lap led in his career compare to Kevin's 4,162 laps and Carl only lost 3 times in his Cup career when Carl has led the most laps. I know Kevin has been racing in cup full time since 2001 compare to Carl starting full time in 2005, but Carl already has more laps led than Kevin and appears to be more clutch when he has the most laps led in a race. 449. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I think you mean lack of aggressiveness in the case of Bayne, Dillon, and Sorenson. Their poor finishes have been, for the most part, a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, though that wasn't the case with Bayne on Friday night. But I also wonder what Jack Roush has been drinking or breathing, because he said a goal of is is to get his Nationwide team back up to where he thinks it's capable of being. The problem is that, as long as Trevor is his lead driver, his Nationwide team is never going to be back up there because he's not the type of driver that can get it up there. While it's agreed that Roush's cars aren't up to their normal performace, having a driver like Trevor as his lead driver is only going to make it look worse than it is because he will not hustle the car like Roush's other drivers will, and that's one big thing that's holding the team back. Trevor's no doubt a talented driver, but he's not one that's going to do well in Roush's equipment any more than Jamie McMurray did in Roush's Cup cars. McMurray never meshed with Roush for the same reason Trevor's having problems there now. Their driving style just doesn't suit Roush's cars. I think that Roush can get his Cup teams closer to the front (Carl Edwards is already close to he front), but I think the Nationwide Series season is already a lost cause, and unless he gets one of his Cup drivers to drive the #16 NNS car, I think he goes winless in Nationwide for the first time. 450. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kevin Harvick's nickname should be "The Vulture" because he is better at taking advantage of his competition beating themselves and/or having problems in the race than actually being able to beat them himself. Plus, a true closer would be able to close out a race in which he dominated. Case in point, the Nationwide race at Richmond a few weeks ago. Harvick led the most laps, had the fastest average green flag speed, and the best average running position in the race, but wound up finishing 2nd to Brad Keselowski (who has been largely underwhelming in the Nationwide Series this year). If he were really "The Closer," he would have closed out a victory in a race where he dominated. But he didn't, and so he's "The Vulture" instead. The only drivers who are deserving of "The Closer" nickname are Matt Kenseth, Jeff Gordon, and Jimmie Johnson. I would even argue Ryan Newman, especially after his minor miracle 10th place finish last night after getting lapped three times in the race, and who has always been a producer in the T15E category. Hell, David Ragan is more deserving of Harvick's "Where did he come from?" nickname after that epic "10th to 1st in two laps" performance at Talladega. 451. Paul posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think you mean lack of aggressiveness in the case of Bayne, Dillon, and Sorenson." I'll give you a lack of aggressiveness for Sorenson, but Bayne's pitiful performance at Darlington (running into the lapped car of Bryan Silas, plus hitting the wall twice in a span of 2-3 laps late in the race) and Dillon's aggressive move on Justin Allgaier at Richmond that wrecked both drivers (and gave Allgaier his lone finish outside the top 15 this year) beg to differ. Dillon has either been overly-aggressive, a punching bag for other drivers, or thrown in the towel because of his guaranteed Cup ride for next season. As for Bayne, he's either too aggressive or not nearly aggressive enough. Add-in the fact that he isn't meshing well at all with his team, and he is perhaps the biggest disappointment in all of NASCAR this season (even more than Tony Stewart). 452. cjs3872 posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, Bayne's hitting the wall twice in the late stages of the race was a direct result of his incident with Bryan Silas early in the race because of the damage that was done to the right rear corner. And I think the incident with Silas was more of a situation of a driver pressing more than it was aggressiveness, and there is a difference. Of course, Silas is a moving chicane in every race he runs, but that's another story for another day. But as I've said, Roush's Nationwide team will never make it back to where he thinks it will be as long as Bayne's his lead driver because he won't hustle a car around the track ike Roush's other driers will. It's just that nobody within the team is saying that publicly, but I beieve there are a number of people in that organization that truly believe that. As for Austin Dillon, his lack of performance is a result of who his teammate is. I should have known that teamming Dillon with a hack like Brian Scott was a formula for disaster, and that's exactly what's happened. I never thought that the loss of Eliott Sadler would send that team crashing, but that's exactly what has happened to RCR's Nationwide team. And by the way, on SPEED Center, they did a piece on the All-Star Race, and they showed a graphic calling Jeff Gordon a 4-time winner. Am I missing something, because there are no 4-time winners of the All-Star Race, though Jimmie Johnson could very well change that this year. And it would be Johnson and not Gordon that would likely become the first 4-time winner this year. 453. David posted: 05.12.2013 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I should have known that teamming Dillon with a hack like Brian Scott was a formula for disaster, and that's exactly what's happened." Crazily enough, the "hack" (1.500 PEER) is beating the socks off of "Dale Earnhardt's successor" (0.722 PEER). 454. 18fan posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If ESPN focused more on the young up and coming drivers who aren't media darlings (which rules out Larson) and less on the Cup drivers it would be a lot more fun to watch. If they properly recognized guys like Bowman, it would be better. The problem is that Cup guys take up most of the top rides, so these up-and-comers rarely have chances to contend for wins. And some of the non-Cup guys in top rides either are part-time Cup drivers (Vickers, Regan Smith) or guys who couldn't cut in Cup and want to prove they deserve another shot (Sadler, Hornish). If it was like it was in the old days when Cup guys would enter occasional races in their own equipment and then it was fun to watch the Busch guys try to beat the Cup guys, but back then they had a much better chance because they weren't facing Cup teams with Cup drivers. That's why it was better when Kyle drove for KBM and Harvick drove for KHI. 455. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In fact, I'm gonna go further than I did in post 446 and list all the driver changes I would make in the Nationwide Series, based strictly on performance and production from this season: - JCR: Jeremy Clements moves up to RCR. Clements' team is used as an RCR "B team," with various RCR drivers driving in and providing sponsorship. Might become a part-time team. - JGR: Parker Kligerman drives the #18 car full-time, while Kyle, Matt, Joey Coulter, and Bubba Wallace split time in the #54 car. - JRM: Regan Smith goes back to Cup. Brian Scott moves over from RCR to drive the #7 car, bringing sponsorship along in the process. They add a third team (#88) for Scott Speed to drive, as he is finally showing to be a productive NASCAR driver this season. Kahne, Junior, and Jeffrey Earnhardt split time in the #5 car. - MLM: With Johanna moving to Roush, Reed Sorenson joins this team, giving them a veteran winning driver who doesn't tear up equipment or cause any internal team problems. - Penske: Hires Kyle Larson away from Ganassi, since Larson's "all or nothing" driving style is what Penske loves in a driver, and put him in the #22 car. Brad Keselowski forms his own Nationwide team, splitting the schedule with Ryan Blaney for the first season before Blaney drives full-time the next season. - RAB: Alex Bowman moves over to Turner and is replaced by Trevor Bayne (formerly from Roush). Getting away from Roush might be just what Bayne needs to be a productive driver once again, like he was in 2010 (when he also drove the #99 car). - RCR: Put Jeremy Clements in the #3 car since Austin has basically stopped caring about this series. Dillon gets moved up to Cup in a 4th RCR car since his grandfather would never release him. Landon Cassill replaces Brian Scott in the #2 car. - RPM: Michael Annett recovers and returns to the #43 car. They form a second team with either Josh Wise or Blake Koch as the driver (depending on Wise's Cup status). - Roush: Put Mike Bliss in the #6 car and Johanna Long in the #60 car full-time. Also, make the #16 team full-time with Chris Buescher driving. - TriStar: Travis Pastrana takes over Bliss' former #19 car, where he is mentored by champion driver Jeff Green and starts out with a smaller team, where he should be. - Turner: James Buescher gets promoted to the #32 car to replace Larson. Justin Allgaier gets that Cup ride that he deserves, and is replaced by Alex Bowman. 456. Schroeder51 posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know Kevin Harvick isn't worthy of the title "The Closer" at all. That's exactly why I said he "earned" it rather than saying that he earned it... 457. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Austin Dillon may be more talented than Brian Scott, but he certainly isn't acting like it this season, as he has pretty much mentally checked out from the Nationwide Series, as if it's beneath him. At least Scott is trying, as proven by his much higher PEER. 458. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Getting away from Roush might be just what Bayne needs to be a productive driver once again, like he was in 2010 (when he also drove the #99 car)." You mean the -0.243 PEER he scored that year? 459. 83andJoe posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Have the Daytona Duels run in the evening so that more people can watch them, but always have the Daytona 500 run in the daytime. I'm indifferent about the Firecracker 400 and the Shootout. The Firecracker 400 should start at 11am on Saturday, as it's supposed to. 460. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You mean the -0.243 PEER he scored that year?" Just curious, where did you get that number? I couldn't find the 2010 Nationwide PEER on his site. Also, I just assumed that he had a productive season based on his 7th place points finish. My bad. 461. 83andJoe posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I wouldn't be quite so keen on putting Johanna in a Roush car. While Roush has gotten some big hits in the past from his farm teams (Greg Biffle, Carl Edwards) his recent history isn't quite as promising (Erik Darnell, Colin Braun, Danny O'Quinn). 462. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JR Motorsports would be another ideal situation for Johanna Long. Full-time team, fairly competitive, not much pressure, and veteran knowledge right at her disposal (Junior, Kahne). It would be fairly easy to swap her and Brian Scott (who I listed at JRM) since Scott would bring sponsorship to a struggling Roush team, but I couldn't see Scott lasting as long with Roush as Johanna might, as I see Johanna as having more Cup potential than Scott, which is something that Roush likes to see. Once Roush sees that his Nationwide drivers don't have what it takes to succeed in Cup, he dumps them. 463. 18fan posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Brian Scott is tearing up cars every week while running well. He doesn't have the speed he had last year, but he seems to keep his car in one piece more than he did in the 11 car last year. 464. 18fan posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) *is NOT tearing up cars every week while running well. 465. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 7:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) Start the Firecracker 400 at 11 AM EDT, 83andJoe? If you do that, one of two things would happen. Either the race would not be able to be shown live, or the audience for that race would take a HUGE hit because those on the west coast would never be able to see it because that would mean an 8 AM starting time out there (and 9 AM in the Mountain Time Zone). The reason it was moved to a night race was so that it could be shown live and have everyone from coast to coast be able to see it. So if you moved the starting time back to 11 AM EDT, that would almost certainly mean tape delay for that race again, and that's just not acceptable for a race in the Cup Series. And Paul, assuming the change you mentioned regarding Bayne is made, which it won't be, who then would drive the Wood Brothers' car in the Cup Series, since that's tied to the Roush ride in Bayne's case? Actually, I think we might see Bayne in the #9 car next year, which would keep him in the Ford camp, while giving Richard Petty a driver in that car that hasn't quit on his team like Marcos Ambrose apparently has. That also would put him in a lower pressure situation while putting him with a team that suits his driving style, unlike Roush, who's organization Bayne's style certainly does not fit. But if there's a separation, I would look for Roush to make a run at Bowman. 466. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 7:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you're not up by 8 AM without the excuse of working a night shift, then you suck anyway. I would like to see it start around 2 or 3 PM though. Re-adjust the schedule so that it can be run on July 4 in the late morning or early afternoon just for one year as an experiment. 467. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bayne would fit in the 9 car, especially since Richard Petty himself is a clean-cut Christian character like Bayne who also didn't believe in overdriving the car. 468. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just curious, where did you get that number?" *evil laugh* Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahohohohohohoheeheeheeheeheeheehee...You wish you knew. Just messing with you. I found it in his article entitled "Analyzing Driver Production Consistency". You see, there is more than one place to find PEER. You can find tidbits of it as you comb through past articles. 469. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 10:15 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) 8 AM on Saturday morning, NicoRosbergFan? Most people, myself included, sleep in on the weekends. And also, that would preclude that race from ever airing live on network televsion ever again, since there are laws requiring 3-5 hours of kids entertainment in the morning to be aired by over the air networks on weekends. It's one thing to get up on a weekday morning,but it's something totally different to force yourself to get up that early on a weekend morning. they tried to run it in the morning, it wouldn't work because almost half the country wouldn't be able to watch it, except on tape delay. Early afternoon, it might work, but then you'd run up against the weather, possibly in more ways than one. And David, I'm not a fan of some "driver equivalency rating" system. The championship standings are the best system there is at rating a driver and his team against everyone else, and if a driver is 12th, he's 12th, if he's first, he's first. It's as simple as that. 470. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sleeping in on weekends is actually bad for your health. Besides, being the Firecracker wouldn't that race be on TNT and therefore exempt? That's why I said "2 or 3 PM," which would be 11 or 12 Pacific. If you want to worry about the weather, consider that they ran it in the afternoon for 42 years (1959-1997), and only once did they have rain problems (1996). I live in that part of Florida, so I think I have first authority when I say I'm not worried about the weather. You have just as good of a chance at getting deluged at 3 PM as at 8 PM. "And David, I'm not a fan of some "driver equivalency rating" system. The championship standings are the best system there is at rating a driver and his team against everyone else, and if a driver is 12th, he's 12th, if he's first, he's first. It's as simple as that." So are you saying that Mark Martin is a worse driver than Marcos Ambrose because Mark is 24th in points and Ambrose is 23rd even though Mark has run 2 fewer races? David: shut up and just admit that you're David Smith already. *this is where you admit you have the same name but aren't the same person* 471. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay fine, I give. Bayne takes over the #9 Cup car, Bowman drives the #60 and has a champion teammate in Mike Bliss, Johanna replaces Regan in the #7, Scott drives the #99 and brings full sponsorship, which allows RAB Racing to expand to two cars and have Ryan Tried driving the second car (#09), and Ambrose joins Michael Shank Racing in the Rolex Sports Car Series full-time, while also running road courses for Roush in Cup and Brad's hypothetical Nationwide team in order to improve their road course programs. If we're judging drivers by their points position, then Aric Almirola and Paul Menard are better than Jeff Gordon. 472. Bronco posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:17 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "If Kevin Harvick has "earned" the nickname "The Closer", than Kyle Busch ought to be called "The Anti-Closer"." Lol, really? You wouldn't give that Anti-Closer nickname to someone like Martin Truex? (A few weeks from now will mark six years since his one and only Cup win) 473. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My bad, that should say "Ryan Truex" drives the #09 RAB car. 474. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:23 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "So are you saying that Mark Martin is a worse driver than Marcos Ambrose because Mark is 24th in points and Ambrose is 23rd even though Mark has run 2 fewer races?" In his defense, he probably just means that the point standings are the only thing that matters. 475. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No NicoRosbergFan, I'm not saying that, especially since he's run two fewer races. If they had run the same number of races, that would be a different story. If Mark had run all the races, he'd probably be around 12th-15th in points. And for this year, I'd say that Aric Almirola has been better than Jeff Gordon so far, which is shown by the championship standings. 476. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "(fellow 2013 winner Brad Keselowski's is even lower)" Until he gets a Cup win that is an evil phrase. An accurate phrase since he has won in NWide (I can feel my stomach turning), but having the "2013 NASCAR winner" tag on him while having a current goose egg in the Cup win column is an albatross. "The Firecracker 400 should start at 11am on Saturday, as it's supposed to." I say start it at 1pm. With better air conditioned helmets and better conditioning programs from their high priced personal trainers, the drivers will be fine. "Bayne would fit in the 9 car, especially since Richard Petty himself is a clean-cut Christian character like Bayne who also didn't believe in overdriving the car." I think that would be a great idea the more I think about it. One other thing, he seems to be most comfortable in the underdog role. His wins have come in the moribund Wood Brothers car and the unsponsored Roush NWide car. Him and Aric would be feel good faces in 2014 to lead RPM in the re-re-booted Dodge program (mark my words, I actually have a source on this). "JR Motorsports would be another ideal situation for Johanna Long." I was gonna say, please don't put my gal with the evil, not-nearly-as-productive-as-he-should-be Jack (Ass) Roush. So glad to see a driver I like, Kenseth, finally be with a respectable owner, and that respectable owner, The Coach, finally have a good guy driving, dominating, and winning for him. This Kenseth/Gibbs union has been a real feel good story for me. When he was passing Kyle in this race, I was in a Keselowski shirt and hat, but I was waving frantically for Matt to get by and felt so awesome when he did and drove off into the night. "I live in that part of Florida, so I think I have first authority when I say I'm not worried about the weather. You have just as good of a chance at getting deluged at 3 PM as at 8 PM." Exactly. That is one of many things I don't understand about cjs (I love ya dude, but it's true). His worries about "times of years when you have to worry about weather". There is no science to this. "But I also wonder what Jack Roush has been drinking or breathing" The fumes of his own shit. He loves the smell of that. "cjs3872, if Darlington went 50+ years without any disasters racing on Labor Day in the heat, I think they'll be just fine going back to a day race. You're really over-dramatic with your fear of getting burned or getting cancer. Obviously the risk is there, but most fans (I hope) are smart enough to use suntan lotion or wear a hat and shirt, and keep hydrated." That's what I'm saying. But it is even worse than he realizes. For all those years, fans showed up and spent all that time in the sun drinking beer. Lots and lots of beer. We will be fine. And again, night racing means being even longer in the sun, and walking around in the hottest parts of the day waiting for the race to start. 477. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A very possible scenario would be Corey Lajoie finding his way into the (S)Cat in the Hat's (s)cars because Lajoie already drives Fords in the lower series. Honestly, though, I think Ambrose will be in the #9 for a few more years because of the sponsorship brought by the fact that he's a novelty item. 478. The Long Shot posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All right, here are my feelings about each of the Nationwide drivers and what I think their chances of Cup success are. Justin Allgaier: Very good. I'm a bit surprised that Allgaier hasn't gotten a full-time Cup ride yet. If Steve Turner starts a Cup team next year, Allgaier will be the top candidate for the ride. Michael Annett: Moderate. Has had one very good season (2012) in his career, but I'll need to see some consistency before I say he can produce in a Cup ride. Trevor Bayne: Moderate. Take away the Daytona 500 win, and Bayne has had a very underwhelming career since he left RAB Racing in 2010. You guys have talked about Bayne a lot, so I'll just say this: he'll get the full-time #6 Cup ride in the next year or two, but I don't think he'll impress in it. Alex Bowman: Good. Bowman is having a lot of success in his rookie year, especially considering the team he's running with. He won't get a Cup ride next year, but I like this kid's potential. Landon Cassill: Moderate. Cassill's talent can not be denied, but he can't seem to stick with a team, even an underfunded one like Phoenix Racing or BK Racing. If he wants to race in Cup, he'll need to acquire a competitive ride in Nationwide. A return to JR Motorsports could work out if Regan Smith moves back up to Sprint Cup next year. Jeremy Clements: Low. Talented driver, and deserves a good ride, but I doubt it will happen. Like Paul has mentioned, RCR could be a good fit for Clements, considering his team is already in an alliance with them. Austin Dillon: Very good. Dillon's future has already been written out for him. The only question left is whether or not he can produce. While he has been underwhelming in both Nationwide and in his few Cup appearances this season, his potential cannot be denied. Jeffrey Earnhardt: Very low. Lacks impressive talent and is too much of an off track concern. The Earnhardt name will keep him around for a while, but he'll never amount to anything in NASCAR. Joey Gase: Extremely low. Gase made the mistake of jumping straight into Nationwide competition, when he should have run for a few years in ARCA to develop. Underwhelming qualifier a la Timmy Hill. Sam Hornish Jr.: Moderate. Hornish will almost certainly be in Cup next year driving a third Penske car, but I'm not sure how much success he'll have. He will be more competitive than he was when he drove the #77, but him ever be a title contender is another story. Parker Kligerman: Great. If Joe Gibbs starts a 4th team in Cup next year, Kligerman will be the primary candidate to jump in the car. He might need another year in Nationwide, but it's inevitable that he will move to Cup soon, and he will be very good. Very, very good. Kyle Larson: Good. Has a tremendous amount of talent, but is very raw and will need some taming before I can say that he will have success at the Cup level. If he doesn't, he will likely end up like Joey Logano (and yes, I am bashing my own favorite driver). If he does, he will be a championship threat for years to come. Johanna Long: Moderate. With the amount of Nationwide talent that will be moving up to Cup in the next two years, Johanna should have the opportunity to land a good ride with a team like Roush. If she doesn't, then her chances of any success will be very bleak. Hal Martin: Very low. Hasn't shown much this year, and unless he goes on a shocking upturn, he probably won't venture out of Nationwide (unless it's back to ARCA, where he probably belongs). Travis Pastrana: Moderate. Pastrana has shown a surprising amount of talent in his rookie season, but I'm very skeptical that he can take that over to Sprint Cup. He might get a Cup ride within the next few years, but he'll probably be nothing more than a mid-tier driver. Nelson Piquet Jr.: Low. Again, another underwhelming rookie season. Other than his win at Road America, Piquet hasn't done much in a Nationwide car. If he does make it to Cup, it will be purely as a road course ringer. Brian Scott: Low. He'll be lucky if he can even get a part-time Cup ride. Scott is far too inconsistent right now to be worth a shot at a Cup ride. Regan Smith: Very good. If Regan wins the championship this year (and I think he will), there will be a number of Cup teams knocking at his door. One thing that could happen is that Hendrick Motorsports uses him as a short term replacement for Jeff Gordon if Gordon retires in the next couple of years (and again, I think he will). Stewart-Haas Racing could also be an option if Ryan Newman leaves after the season. Reed Sorenson: Low. Sorenson will probably end up just sticking in Nationwide for the rest of his career. He never showed anything during his years in Sprint Cup, but he's shown some talent in Nationwide. He could end up like Mike Bliss, running full-time in Nationwide while running part-time in Cup for small teams. Dexter Stacey: Moderate. This might surprise some people, but I could see Stacey bringing his self-owned team into Sprint Cup as soon as 2015. He has talent, and the team has done very well in their first year in NASCAR competition. They won't be very competitive, probably, but it would be a nice story. Brad Sweet: Low. I honestly don't know what my feelings are about this guy. Sometimes he shows some nice talent, and sometimes he looks like he shouldn't even be driving a race car. Until he steps out of Kasey Kahne's shadow and gets a full-time Nationwide ride, I have no predictions for him. By the way, Truck drivers who will move up to Nationwide next year: Ryan Blaney (to Penske Racing #22), James Buescher (to Steve Turner #31), Jeb Burton (to Steve Turner #32), Joey Coulter (to Kyle Busch #54), Ty Dillon (to RCR #3), and Darrell Wallace (to Joe Gibbs #18). 479. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "since there are laws requiring 3-5 hours of kids entertainment in the morning to be aired by over the air networks on weekends" The kids "entertainment", much like its adult counterpart, is garbage. I miss the old "Tom & Jerry" reruns. 480. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""since there are laws requiring 3-5 hours of kids entertainment in the morning to be aired by over the air networks on weekends" The kids "entertainment", much like its adult counterpart, is garbage. I miss the old "Tom & Jerry" reruns. " Preach it brother. I think Regan will win the title in NNS this year and the next. Why? Because I think he may take the helm of the 24 when Jeff retires, with Chase Elliott waiting to replace either Dale Jr. or Jimmie Johnson because one is just as likely as the other to retire early. 481. Eric posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bronco, It is wrong to call Truex the anti closer for a couple reasons. Truex hasn't led the most laps in a lot of cup races. The 2nd thing is Kyle would ranked very high on a ratio that I am planning to create down the road. That ratio is amount of time a driver has lead the most race and compare to the amount of time a driver has lost a race despite leading the most laps in the same race. 482. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I want Regan Smith to drive the #24 car once Jeff Gordon retires. Regan's a winner and more than likely will be a NASCAR champion by the end of this season. That's the kind of driver who should be in the #24 car. 483. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "since he left RAB Racing in 2010" He left Diamond-Waltrip Racing. Bayne has never driven for RAB. PEER time! Nationwide: Justin Allgaier: 2.556, fifth Michael Annett: 0.667, 28th (2012) Trevor Bayne: 0.722, T-20th Alex Bowman: 1.806, seventh Landon Cassill: 0.000, T-38th (Cup) Jeremy Clements: 1.357, twelfth Austin Dillon: 0.722, T-20th Jeffrey Earnhardt: 0.857, 17th Joey Gase: 0.111, 46th (2012) Sam Hornish, Jr.: 2.944, third Parker Kligerman: 2.194, sixth Kyle Larson: 1.778, eighth Johanna Long: 0.917, T-15th Hal Martin: -0.778, 31st Travis Pastrana: -0.333, 30th Nelson Piquet, Jr.: 0.444, 24th Brian Scott: 1.500, eleventh Regan Smith: 4.056, second (!!) Reed Sorenson: 0.000, T-26th Dexter Stacey: 0.000, T-26th Brad Sweet: 0.500, 34th (2012) Truck: Ryan Blaney: 2.375, fifth James Buescher: 1.000, T-13th Jeb Burton: 4.000, third Joey Coulter: 1.875, eighth Ty Dillon: 1.125, eleventh Darrell Wallace, Jr.: 1.375, tenth 484. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Theong Shot, I'm not sure about some of those predictions for current Nationwide drivers. First, if JGR starts a fourth team, Elliott Sadler is the obvious choice for that ride. Parker Kligerman is just not ready for the Cup Series, and if that fourth JGR Cup ride comes, what I suspect will happen is that Sadler will move into that car with Kligerman taking either Sadler's or Brian Vicker's seat (Vickers is expected to be full time in MWR's #55 car neat year). Next is Justin Allgaier. While his talent is Cup-caliber in my view, his attitude isn't, and that's what has held him back. Allgaier is a driver that just rubs people the wrong way, and Cup owenrs think the same way, otherwise Allgaier might have at least gotten a look, plus his overall record is not that great. As for Trevor Bayne, I actually think he'll make a better Cup driver than a Nationwide driver. The reason is that he doesn't hustle the car, which you have to do to be successful in the Nationwide Series, but is something you just can't do in the Cup Series, a fact that's been proven through the years. Any driver that's tried has either had to change his style or never made it. The sky appears to be the limit fo both Alex Bowman and Kyle Larson, but Larson may take a little longer in a Cup car because he hustles the car, while Bowman's style seems to be a little more cautious. But both have the speed to succeed greatly in the Cup Series. As far as Nelson Piquet, Jr. goes, he's in the same situation as Bayne in regards to the Nationwide Series. The Nationwide cars just don't suit his driving style and I think he'll be better in Cup than he is in the Nationwide Series, and I just don't think Travis Pastrana has what it takes to succeed in NASCAR period. Te jury's stillout on the others, though I'm not sure Landon Cassill, Sam Horish, Jr., or Reed Sorenson can get it done. After all, they've all gotten shots in good situations, Cassill as an HMS development driver, and Hornish and Sorenson in quality Cup rides, and Brian Scott doesn't have it either. And remember that Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, and Jimmie Johnson all had checkered Nationwide careers before entering the Cup Series, and all three are among the sport's greatest champions. Gordon hustled the car, which he had to learn to scale back on, and the Nationwide cars never suited either Stewart or Johnson. Stewart never won in Nationwide before joining the Cup ranks (or until his seventh Cup season) and Johnson only won once and was rarely impressive, so I wouldn't judge whether a driver can make it in Cup solely based on his Nationwide efforts. 485. 83andJoe posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In fact, winning the Busch/Nationwide Series championship seems to be an albatross around a driver's neck when it comes to being successful in Cup. If we look back down the list of BGN/NNS champions, and remove those who won championships while Buschwhacking, out of twenty series champions, only four - Bobby Labonte, Kevin Harvick, Dale Junior and Greg Biffle - have really been truly successful in Cup (and I'd say only Labonte and Biffle are unqualified successes). As for the remaining sixteen, well, some have proven "not bad" in Cup - Truex, Benson, Vickers, Nemechek - but just as many or more have flopped in the big leagues - Chuck Bown, the Green brothers, Randy LaJoie, and Steve Grissom come to mind. Of course, the track record of Truck Series champions in Cup is even worse... 486. 83andJoe posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To prove my point about the Truck Series' championship being a millstone when it comes to career advancement, let's take a look at them. We'll remove the four "retreads" (Hamilton, Musgrave, The Onion and Benson), which leaves us with eight champions from the series' eighteen-year history (and geez, has it really been that long?): Mike Skinner: 'Nuff said. Ron Hornaday Jr: Drove for A.J. Foyt Racing, Slayer of Cup Careers (really, /NOBODY/ who drove the Conseco Pontiac had their career live to tell the tale, with the possible exceptions of John Andretti and Mike Bliss). Jack Sprague: Nnrrrrghhh. Moving on. Greg Biffle: the Exception That Proves The Rule. Mike Bliss: Was technically already a "retread" (having driven for the aforementioned Super-Tex and Jack Birmingham's last gasp of Bahari), but managed to rebound back to Cup...driving for Gene Haas. ouch. Travis Kvapil: Not awful in Cup, but has underwhelmed. Of course, once again, he's had terrible team choices, starting with Jasper Motorsports in a Penske polo shirt and getting progressively darker from there. Austin Dillon: Incomplete grade, but looks less than promising for long-term success. James Buescher: Also incomplete. Possibly has the best shot at Doing Something since Biffle. ...it almost seems, after looking through it all, that the Truck Championship Curse isn't so much on /success/ as it is on actually being able to get with a decent team... 487. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) cjs, Tony Stewart didn't win an NNS race until 2005. I did it! I found cjs in error! 488. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "plus his overall record is not that great." What do you mean his overall record isn't great? In each of the last three seasons he is the only Nationwide driver to have won a race, finished in the top 10 in at least 50% of his starts, had an average finish of 12.0 or better, and seen his DNF total decrease each season. Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. is the only other driver to do all four of those things twice in the last three years, and Allgaier is the only Nationwide driver to do them three years in a row. "After all, they've all gotten shots in good situations, Cassill as an HMS development driver," You're going to judge Cassill based on his performances as an 18-year old on a Nationwide-only team that was only three years old and had for the first time expanded to two cars? I'm more impressed by his two top 25 finishes with Joe Falk's poor Cup team than that, not to mention his two top 20 finishes in the 2nd Johnny Davis Nationwide car this year. Cassill is one of those drivers who needed some seasoning before he truly got the handle on these cars, and based on his good runs in bad equipment this season, I'd give him another shot in good Nationwide equipment. 489. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "just as many or more have flopped in the big leagues - Chuck Bown, the Green brothers, Randy LaJoie, and Steve Grissom come to mind." Jeff Green's flopping was more because of his attitude towards Harvick after the Richmond '03 race, which cost him his RCR ride and his career never recovered from that, although I thought he did a nice job in Gene Haas' car in '06 and '07. And LaJoie I would argue wasn't interested in competing in Cup and was content with sticking to the Busch Series, which back in those days was sort of like a more nationally-based Busch North Series, and so LaJoie didn't have to travel far from home to go race, which I think is what he preferred. "Mike Skinner: 'Nuff said." Best non-independent driver without a points-paying Cup victory. "Ron Hornaday Jr:" We'll never know how Hornaday might have fared in Cup had he been with a team that had even a little bit of potential. The fact that he finished 9th at Las Vegas and led 24 laps at Martinsville while driving for A.J. Foyt in 2001 is a minor miracle in and of itself. His 20th place and lead lap finish at Homestead in 2003 while driving for RCR (finished one position behind the highest finishing RCR driver, Steve Park, in that race) may indicate that he could have succeeded if he got with the right team. 490. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, how is my mentioning that Tony Stewart never won a Nationwide Series race until his seventh season an error? Unless I missed something, 2005 WAS his seventh season in the Cup Series, having started in the Cup Series in 1999. His first Nationwide Series win, at the annual 300-mile race the day before the Daytona 500 in 2005 was at the beginning of his seventh season in the Cup Series. And Paul, while I would give Landon Cassill another chance in a good Nationwide car, I'm not sure about anything more than that until he proves he can actually do well in good equipment. You mention his yop-25 finihses in Joe Falk's car, but how many healthy cars were left at the finish of those races and how many free passes/wave arounds did he need, because he was lapped numerous times in those events. Also, while I agree that Justin Allgaier's record in the Nationwide Series is good, it isn't that great, either. Sure he has one win in each of the last three seasons, but he basically lucked into two of those wins, the 2011 race at Chicago and last year at Montreal, though he was outright robbed by the racing gods at Road America in 2011. His record is good, not great. As I said, his talent is Cup-worthy, but not his attitude. He may contend for third or fourth in the championship this year, and maybe win a race, but that's about all. And 83andJoe, you're forgetting one significant name in your listing of past Nationwide champions in the Cup Series. The name I'm referring to is that of Brad Keselowski, who just happens to be the current Cup champion. And he also had to adjust his driving style to suit the longer races, but once he figured out how to do that, you've seen what has happened. Within three years he won both a Nationwide championship and a Cup championship, joining Bobby Labonte as only the second driver to win both championships. I also think Jack Roush might have known something when he advanced Kurt Busch from the Truck Series straight to the Cup Series in late 2000 for 2001, because he thought Kurt's driving style was more suited to Cup than Greg Biffle's, and there Roush proved to be right because Kurt has won 24 races and one championship while Biffle has won 18 races, but has thrown away just about that many, if not more because he drives too hard and ends up crashing when he shouldn't. 491. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You mention his top-25 finishes in Joe Falk's car, but how many healthy cars were left at the finish of those races and how many free passes/wave arounds did he need, because he was lapped numerous times in those events." He was only lapped once at Talladega and received the Lucky Dog at both Richmond and Talladega, but what does that matter? The point is is that he has two top 25 finishes in a car that shouldn't even be finishing in the top 30. I find it interesting how when you look at the points standings, you just look at which driver is higher in points to determine which one is better (i.e Almirola is higher than Gordon, so Almirola is having a better year), whereas with race results you question the validity of Cassill's two top 25 finishes. You can't have it both ways. Either you question both points position AND race results, or you question neither and accept them for what they are. Right now you're doing neither of the two and are almost saying that Cassill didn't deserve either of his top 25 finishes. "Also, while I agree that Justin Allgaier's record in the Nationwide Series is good, it isn't that great, either." Considering his level of equipment and having to race against multiple Cup drivers in Cup equipment on a week-to-week basis, I would say he has done a great job. "As I said, his talent is Cup-worthy, but not his attitude." What's wrong with his attitude? I don't recall him acting immature in an interview or whining about the way another driver races against him on the track. If Kyle Busch has a Cup ride considering his relatively poor attitude, Allgaier's attitude shouldn't be a problem whatsoever. "The name I'm referring to is that of Brad Keselowski, who just happens to be the current Cup champion." 83andJoe was only listing non-Cup driver Nationwide Series champions. Brad had already had a full-time Cup driver by the time he won his Nationwide title in 2010. "while Biffle has won 18 races, but has thrown away just about that many, if not more because he drives too hard and ends up crashing when he shouldn't." Biffle has always had one of the lowest crash frequencies in Cup dating back to 2007. He even led the series in lowest crash frequency among full-time drivers in 2008. Aside from 2007 and 2010, his crash frequency has always been below 0.20, meaning that he crashes fewer than twice every 10 races (and in 2010, it was just above that mark at 0.22). I agree that Roush made the right decision to propel Kurt Busch up to Cup quicker than Greg Biffle, but I think you're out of line saying that Biffle has a tendency to crash. He certainly didn't crash at Texas or Michigan last year when he successfully beat Jimmie Johnson in hard fought battles for the win in those two races. 492. Jim Davis posted: 05.13.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Justin Allgaier: The window of opportunity is quickly closing for Allgaier. If he doesn't land a cup ride by age 30 he likely never will. Michael Annett: Annett will likely get a shot by the Petty organization but like Allgaier it better be sooner than later. Trevor Bayne: Bayne may one day think that winning the Daytona 500 was the worst thing that could have happened for his career prospects. It has raised expectations unrealistically. Alex Bowman: This guy is probably a lock for a good cup ride. Landon Cassill: I think Cassill has really impressed the cup garage. Whether that will land him a quality cup ride in the future is another question. Jeremy Clements: I think he may have committed career suicide with his comments earlier this year. Austin Dillon: I agree with most people here; he is taking way too much for granted. I think Ty is a better bet for long term success. Jeffrey Earnhardt: Reminds me of his father, Kerry, and has about the same career prospects. Joey Gase: Gase hasn't made much of an impression on me. Sam Hornish Jr.: I think the window of cup opportunity has shut for Hornish. Parker Kligerman: There's something very Keselowski-like about this guy. He might go far. Kyle Larson: If Larson can avoid being pushed too quickly the sky's the limit. Johanna Long: Long is still trying to recover from her family's overambitious truck season. If they had tried K&N Long's career might be going somewhere. As it is, she must not under any circumstances re-sign with ML Racing. That organization is a career graveyard underscored by the fact that they haven't managed to secure even one single race sponsorship in two years. A retreat to K&N or ARCA would be a better career move. Hal Martin: Like Gase, hasn't made any impression. Travis Pastrana: Like Danica Patrick, I think his talents will never live up to inflated expectations. This is a shame as he seems like a great personality. Nelson Piquet Jr.: Clearly has a lot of talent and seems willing to work hard at his craft. I think marketability may be a problem as he doesn't seem to be very approachable. Brian Scott: Talented, but the Childress organization's openings have been spoken for. Has to make a lateral move at some point. Regan Smith: Well respected throughout the cup garage but will need a big break to land a quality cup ride. Reed Sorenson: Like Annett, will get a serious look from Petty at some point. Dexter Stacey: The Nationwide attempt is overambitious and will hurt him in the long run. ARCA or K&N is where he should be. Brad Sweet: He needs to impress in a full time ride before anyone gives him a cup shot. Marketability might be a problem as well. I saw him interviewed by Jamie Little once and he looked like a midget next to her. Sponsors like their spokesmen taller. 493. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As it is, she must not under any circumstances re-sign with ML Racing. That organization is a career graveyard" I agree about Johanna not re-signing with MLM after this season, but I fear that she will remain too loyal to her employer if she doesn't garnish much interest from a more lucrative Nationwide team. Also, while I do agree that MLM hasn't done a good job at propelling or extending careers, David Stremme certainly rejuvenated his after two very forgettable seasons with Penske and the pre-FAS Lane team with his 2.654 in Nationwide PEER in 2011 (ranked 8th, no Nationwide regulars had a higher PEER that season). It didn't give him any lucrative rides or anything like that, but his current full-time Cup ride proves that it didn't hurt him either. 494. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, anyone that finishes a race at Daytona or Talladega can finish in the top 20-25 just by avoiding all the attrition, and it's been that way for ages. Just look at the 1991 Daytona 500 results and you'll see some guys in that top 20 that make Landon Cassill look like Dale Earnhardt. And frankly, I would question the true validity of any finish boosted by wave-arounds because it allows them to make up laps they have no business making up, especially if it's late in the race, no matter who it is. And Justin Allgaier has always had a problem rubbing people the wrong way. I still think that's a big reason Penske never tried to keep him after 2010. And if Penske has a problem with the attitude of a driver, it spreads throughout the garage area and is attached to him like a magnet, no matter how fair or unfair it is. Guys with questionable attitudes just don't make it with Penske, because Penske won't allow that. Actually, Brad Keselowski may start to get on a slippery slope with Penske if he isn't careful, despite winning him his only NASCAR championships to date. And as for my saying that Greg Biffle has a tendency to crash, maybe crash is a harsh term, but he puts himself out of contention more than he should. But he's hit the wall while running up front more often than he should by running too hard. He's gotten quite a bit better at not doing that in recent years, but there have been times where he's tried to drive the car harder than it's capable of going. He did a great job in his two wins last year, though he only had to beat Jimmie Johnson for one of those wins. Johnson blew an engine with five laps remaining in the other one, with Biffle inheriting the win by essentially breaking him. But then again, 11 years is a large body of work, and quite a bit of that came prior to 2011. And I agree that Kyle Busch's attitude is terrible. That's why he no longer drives for Hendrick, but he's found an owner in Joe Gibbs that tolerates his bad attitude, and has for five years now. 495. Sean posted: 05.13.2013 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) [Comment deleted at the poster's request.] 496. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jim Davis, you may have hit the jackpot when you said that winning the Daytona 500 when he did was probably the worst thing that could have ever happened to Trevor Bayne in the long run, and there is precedent for that. Troy Ruttman always said that winning the 1952 Indianapolis 500 at age 22 was probably the worst thing that ever happened to him because he didn't know how to handle that success. And when Parnelli Jones won it in 1963, he talked to Ruttman about that, and Ruttman advised Jones not to make the same mistakes he did. And Dale Earnhardt always believed that winning the championship injust his second year in 1980 was the worst thing that ever happened to him because, like Ruttman, he had no idea how to handle his success. Then there's the story of John Mecom. In 1966, Mecom entered three cars for the Indianapolis 500 for Rodger Ward and two rookies named Jackie Stewart and Graham Hill, who had already been World Champion. Ward fellout early, but Mecom's other two cars were running 1-2 late in that crash-plagued race. Stewart fellout with 10 laps to go and Hill won the race. One year later, Mecom finishd second at Indy with Al Unser, and it was almost second and third with Unser and Stewart, who was ahead of Unser until he dropped out late in the race. Mecom then got out of racing bcause he grew tired of beinn involved it, having won the big one on his first shot, as well as buying the New Orleans Saints. I just wonder if Trevor Bayne is also having the same problems getting motivated having won the biggest NASCAR race on his first shot at it. After all, that had never happened before, and maybe like Mecom, Bayne is having problems getting himself motivated to race, whether he realizes it or not. If this is true, then Bayne might be out of racing within three years. That may also have been why Rod Osterlund got out so quickly after his 1980 championship with Earnhardt. He had risen to the top so quickly that he believed there was no place to go, but down, so he got out before that could happen. 497. The Long Shot posted: 05.13.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "First, if JGR starts a fourth team, Elliott Sadler is the obvious choice for that ride." I strongly disagree. Sadler has had multiple Cup chances with multiple teams, and he underwhelmed in all of them. It's too late for Sadler to redeem himself in Cup. "As it is, she must not under any circumstances re-sign with ML Racing. That organization is a career graveyard" I won't go so far as to say it's a career graveyard, but Johanna should not re-sign with ML Motorsports unless she is offered a deal for the full season. 498. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.13.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The question for Indycar of course is why improved competition hasn't led to better Television viewership and attendance. All the NBCSCN races were down in ratings from last year with Sao Paulo the best race of the year down 40%. Last year ratings were down 27% on NBCSN and over 10% on ABC. In addition last year was the worst attendance for the Indy 500 since the 1950s at 220,000 and this year will likely be worse as they have removed large sections of grandstand seating. NASCAR post-2010 has seen stagnation after large drops from 06-2010 has seen stagnation. Large rises in 2011 made way for small/mid drops in 2012 and solid stagnation in 2013 with attendance up/down/the same at most tracks with some exceptions, one of them ironically being the second biggest profit maker for Indycar and the Hulman company, the Brickyard 400. 499. Daniel posted: 05.13.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sprint showdown: 23 entered -Scott Riggs in the #44 -Brian Keselowski in the #52 -Michael McDowell in the #95 -#35 and #98 not entered 500. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, Sadler isn't a long-term driver for a fourth JGR team by any means, but I think he's just the kind of driver they would want for a start-up team, which is what a fourth JGR would be. Remember that they took a chance when they started a third team in 2005 by hiring Jason Leffler, and that was a disaster from the word go. A veteran like Sadler would be a good fit for a team starting up, and then when they're ready to step it up, in terms of performance, if he's not performing, then they can get rid of him. But what other veteran driver would they have to choose from, because they would likely go with a veteran driver. And TeamPlayersBlue, I think there were three major reasons for the drop in attendance for last year's Indianapolis 500. The first was no Danica Patrick, the biggest draw among the drivers, the second was the car, which has always been an unpopular car, and the third was the terrible heat. Remember that many fans left their seats for the shade during one of the greatest races ever at IMS to get out of the sun, because the temperature approached 100 degrees. Of course, IMS may be the worst place to watch a race because of the double-decker grandstands, so that didn't help, either. 501. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, any driver that can succeed for the Wood Brothers, as Sadler did, can't be all bad. Ever since Morgan Shepherd left, they've rarely been competitive, and when they have run near the front, it's always been a huge surprise, especially now since they're way behind in terms of manpower, and it's been that way for closing in on 20 years. For a few years from 1991-'95, it looked like they were on their way back to prominence, but ever since 1996, they've been an afterthought except for the rare times they've run close to the front. And since Shepherd left, Sadler's run with the team was, and is the best for any driver. So Sadler can't be that bad a driver, though I doubt he'd be competitive in a Cup car these days. 502. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I do believe he is quoted far too much here" *quickly* That's on Paul. *smirks* "I also largely agree with this. I think PEER is usually better than the NASCAR points standings (because NASCAR's points system is SO awful) but using any one metric as the be-all end-all is usually wrong." Analogy time! The Wins Above Replacement in baseball seems very much like this. It's not definitive either. Who ever said that PEER is "the be-all end-all"? Sure, Paul and I (but mostly Paul) draw it like a gun in our discussions, and maybe we do use it too much, but PEER is a great way to gauge the value of drivers. The thing is, it measures PRODUCTION, not talent. That is why it is mostly finish-based. A really talented driver could drive way over his head sometimes, and as a result he crashes a lot and gets a low rating. See: Busch, Kurt (2012) and Hamlin, Denny (2011). Why do you think he has all those other statistics on his website? If there is a PEER outlier, oftentimes he will use the other stats to infer why the year was so good or so bad for the driver. And another thing, PEER takes into account equipment and team differences, not car model differences. It is possible for a driver who has produced really well in one car to totally flop in another. PEER intentionally leaves a lot up in the air. It should be taken exactly at face value. It is a catchall stat, but sometimes it is good to see the breakdown, too. "Having said that, I am not interested in calculating a Cup-only driver rating myself, and my interests in that regard would be in creating a more ambitious cross-series ranking that attempted to measure Formula One, NASCAR, IndyCar, WRC, sports car, even NHRA and sprint car drivers on the same scale (if I could get all the data). Many would call this a fool's game, but as a fan of multiple series, I find single-series rankings more boring, since most people can rapidly come to an agreement on who the best drivers in any given series are in general, and specific disagreements will generally be minor." I am trying to expand my interests into other series, but so far, it's been hard, especially since I can't watch other series' races on TV. "I am confident I could improve on Autosport's World Driver Rankings, which I find hilariously bad" I took a look for myself. Wow. Any world driver ranking system that has Kasey Kahne and Clint Bowyer in the top 20 can't be good, though I do admire them for trying. 503. murb posted: 05.13.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, I have A LOT of stuff to respond to. Here goes... - These are the following NNS drivers who I think can be really successful in Cup one day: Alex Bowman, Parker Kligerman, Trevor Bayne. What Bowman is doing right now with a low level team reminds me a lot of what Jimmie Johnson did in the Herzog car, Kligerman has Kenseth-esque qualities (which are never a bad thing), and Trevor's lay low driving style will serve him much better in Cup than NNS. - As for some of the other NNS drivers: 1. Justin Allgaier: I like him personally, but I just see him as a career minor league driver (a la Jason Leffler). I don't think he'd be able to do much in Cup since you need to pace yourself a lot more up there. 2. Austin Dillon: I think his first two or three years are gonna look like Joey Logano's first two or three years. He'll be nothing special, probably just a less popular and not as good version of Dale Jr (huge expectations won't be lived up to). 3. Kyle Larson: He's a little iffy, but if he gets in the right situation, he'll be successful. I know he's a Ganassi development driver right now, but my gut is telling me that Tony Stewart will tab Larson to replace him in the 14 within the next couple years. 4. Travis Pastrana: Despite what CJS thinks, I think he DOES have what it takes to make it in Cup one day. He doesn't have an attitude, he admits and seems to learn from his mistakes, and he's working his way up the right way. And he's shown flashes of brilliance. So if he sticks with NNS for a couple more years, he's gonna get even better. I think he'll eventually be a prime candidate to replace Greg Biffle (who seems to be on the brink of a Bobby Labonte/Jeff Burton style fall from grace) in the 16 car. - As an Aric Almirola fan, I would LOVE to see Trevor come over and be his teammate in the 9 car next year. Ambrose has proven that he is a non-factor on the ovals, so I think it's time for him to move on. Trevor though would be a great fit in that car. - Regan Smith would be a FANTASTIC replacement for Jeff Gordon in the 24 car. - I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hope Johanna gets a good shot with a better NNS team. I think some good places for her would be at Penske (as a replacement for Hornish since he will more than likely be moved back up to Cup in the next couple years), JRM (as a teammate to Regan in the 5 car - then move Kahne, Sweet, and Dale Jr all to the 88), or Turner (he always seems to be hire happy and have a lot of open seats for young drivers). 504. Eric posted: 05.13.2013 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, I wouldn't be so sure about Bayne going to to the 6 car in a couple years. It depends on the 16 car. If Biffle leaves the 16 car team, Bayne would be taking it over. I am saying this because Biffle's contract is through 2014. Based on how Matt is doing at JGR, I am sure that Biffle is might be considering leaving Roush depending on what rides would be open. 505. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Justin Allgaier: I like him personally, but I just see him as a career minor league driver (a la Jason Leffler)." I get exactly the same feeling about him. He even has a career minor-leaguer name. "Regan Smith would be a FANTASTIC replacement for Jeff Gordon in the 24 car." I hear that!! I would MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH rather see Smith replace Gordon than Chase Elliott. 506. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure I entirely agree with your statement about Clint Bowyer and Kasey Kahne not being in the top 20 in a world ranking system, David. They both finished in the top four (it would been top three if not for a speeding penalty Kasey got in the final race) in the toughest form of motorsports in the world that I know of, and if you were going to weigh a certain type of racing more than any other, it would be NASCAR's top series. And for last year, I would have to put them both in the top 20-25 for last year, and if that ranking was just for last year, how can you not agree with that? If I had to rate the drivers in the top three racing series in the world, I would certainly put much more weight on NASCAR's top series than I would IndyCar and F1, and those three to me have always been at the to of the fod chain for the last couple of decades, at least. If I were to list the top 20 from last year, I would have eight drivers from NASCAR's top series, five from both IndyCar and F1, and two others, possibly from one of those series, as well for a total of 20. That's one thing IndyCar has really caught up to NASCAR on in the last couple of years, and that's the depth of the competition, because in IndyCar, it's no longer just Penske and Ganassi, with a touch of Andretti, but rather a number of other teams. For instance, A.J. Foyt's team goes into the Indianapolis 500 with the points lead for the first time since 1975, when Foyt himself led on the way to his sixth and final title, and even F1 has gotten more competitive than it usually is the last couple of years, though the depth is not quite on the level of IndyCar and NASCAR's top series yet, but it looks like it's getting there, and everyone wins when you have a deeply competitive field, because you don't know who the winner of a race might be when the race starts. 507. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, onething I wholeheartedly agree with you with in regards to Pastrana is his attitude (perhaps Roush hasn't rubbed off on him yet). He seems to be an easy-going guy that is willing to learn from his mistakes. I just don't think he's got what it takes to succeed in NASCAR, largely due to having so much on his plate. What he has makes on his plate makes what's on Dale, Jr.'s and even Danica Patrick's plate look empty because he's involved in so many endevours. And the one thing about Pastrana, and this is both a blessing and a curse, is that he's never met a risk he didn't like and won't take. And why are we talking about replacements for Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart? I think each of them have at least 3-5 good years left in them. Gordon's biggest problems are his crew chief and his unwillingness to step on it on the fastest tracks in recent years, and Stewart's biggest problems are his crew chief and Danica Patrick. But both have at least 3-5 good years left in them, if not more. 508. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And why are we talking about replacements for Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart? I think each of them have at least 3-5 good years left in them. Gordon's biggest problems are his crew chief and his unwillingness to step on it on the fastest tracks in recent years, and Stewart's biggest problems are his crew chief and Danica Patrick. But both have at least 3-5 good years left in them, if not more." I wholeheartedly agree. We are just looking ahead a little bit. 509. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry, cjs, but endurance racing, rally cars, and WoO are far more physically intense than NASCAR. Also, don't forget A.J.'s farcical 1979 title. 510. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.13.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just want to know if you think anyone will get to 300 top5s in nascar in the next 10-15 years I personally only see Johnson with a chance at it and he will need at least 20 seasons, which I don't see him doing anyway to reach the landmark. Guys nascar is a fun series but f1 drivers would kill nascar drivers case in point Dan Gurney. 511. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And why are we talking about replacements for Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart?" It's never too early to think about the future. Also, I've heard that Stewart is a lot closer to Cup retirement that we would think. I'm not sure what that means, but it is something to look for in the upcoming years, especially since he's no longer the best driver on his own team. "Sure, Paul and I (but mostly Paul) draw it like a gun in our discussions" Why am I being thrown under the bus? I also look at head-to-head comparisons (especially with Alex Bowman and Kyle Larson) and look at driver stats when making my arguments. I'm not dependent on Motorsports Analytics to make my points for me, especially since I don't think his crash frequency data is very accurate, as it doesn't distinguish "crash by cause" from a "crash by situation." And while I don't think the PEER formula is entirely accurate (Robert Richardson is serviceable, but Bayne and Dillon are replaceable?), but it does give you a good idea as to which drivers are producing up to their equipment's standards and which ones are not. That's why I use some of those advanced statistics because it's a good indicator as to which drivers are producing and running well, even if their official statistics don't tell the whole story. No formula is perfect and I don't look at any formula or points system as the "be all, end all" (although the Formula One points system is the best one I've seen), but from what I've seen, the stuff that David Smith has seems to be the most accurate as far as measuring performance. "endurance racing, rally cars, and WoO are far more physically intense than NASCAR." NASCAR drivers look far too relaxed in the car. Check out the in-car cameras on some of those guys, especially the ones with those tiny steering wheels (IMO, all steering wheels should be big and somewhat difficult to control, like the ones that Tony Stewart, Mark Martin, and Clint Bowyer use.). They look too much like they're out for a Sunday drive than a stock car race. Hell, they don't even shift like real men anymore, since the clutch isn't necessary like it used to be. "I would MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH rather see Smith replace Gordon than Chase Elliott." I don't want that Kasey Kahne clone driving the #24 car. Change that 2 to a 9 (his dad's number that garnished 0 wins) and we'll talk. 512. 83andJoe posted: 05.13.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Travis Pastrana: Like Danica Patrick, I think his talents will never live up to inflated expectations. This is a shame as he seems like a great personality. I think Pastrana has probably the best personality among all the prosepcts, and possibly in the entire garage period. He's funny, enthuiastic, and humble all at the same time - he hasn't let his stardom in extreme sports go to his head and lead to an inflated personal opinion of himself - he's genuinely grateful to be out there racing and he's having fun every minute of it. Whether or not deciding to hitch his star to an unsponsored Roush team, though, remains to be seen if it was a good idea. >I agree about Johanna not re-signing with MLM after this season, but I fear that she will remain too loyal to her employer if she doesn't garnish much interest from a more lucrative Nationwide team. In other words, that she might have her career Ward Burton'd. 513. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.13.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RosbergFan, any honest driver who has done multiple forms of motorsport will tell you endurance and sports cars is the absolute easiest and has been since the Death of Group C/IMSA GTP worldwide. The GT cars have 400-500 bhp and the FASTEST prototypes (LMP1) in the world since the 2011 rules changes have 550 BHP. This is on top of being much heavier than F1 cars with 750 BHP. They also have Traction Control and ABS, something F1 hasn't had since 07, and any driver will tell you how easy it is. The biggest challenge of endurance racing is if you're a prototype driver and traffic, which NASCAR and Indy also deals with. The other thing is Le Mans was harder when it was a 2 driver race, now 3 drivers is the norm and in others like Daytona and Spa (with easier to drive cars) it's 4 or 5. Most tracks these days are lit with some exceptions so it removes part of the challenge of night driving, which David Hobbs admitted during the Rolex 24 broadcast was "overrated and not too difficult." Over the last 20 years I have seen multiple F1, Indycar, Rally and even NASCAR drivers make the transition to Endurance racing and they are immediately on pace. I have yet to see an Endurance driver go to F1 and NASCAR and be immediately on pace and successful. Most of the dominant drivers in the endurance racing are cast-offs from other series and ex-lower Formula drivers who were either not rich or not good enough for F1. There is some money to be made in driving sportscars, the same can't be said for series like Indycar. Rally, I'd agree with you in the 1980s but now the field is so varied from top to bottom I'd only put guys like Loeb and Ogier at the top. WOO and Dirt in General? Well, we've seen them make pretty good drivers in NASCAR, but its not like JJ Yeley and Dave Blaney were ever going to be the next Jeff Gordon. 514. murb posted: 05.13.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I haven't been nearly as impressed with Chase Elliott as much as I am with some of the other guys he's raced with in Trucks this year (like Darrell Wallace and Erik Jones). I know he finished 6th and 5th in his two races, but we also have to remember that he was driving for Turner, who has really good Truck equipment. So I was much more impressed with the solid runs by Wallace and Jones in KBM's not as good equipment. Darrell Wallace finished 5th (one spot ahead of Chase) at Martinsville, and Erik Jones had an insane drive at tough ass Rockingham where he started dead last and finished 9th. 515. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why am I being thrown under the bus?" I should have inserted another *smirk* in there somewhere. I am not throwing you under the bus, I was just alluding to how many times you have brought up PEER recently (I've done it just as much, so don't worry). "I'm not dependent on Motorsports Analytics to make my points for me, especially since I don't think his crash frequency data is very accurate, as it doesn't distinguish "crash by cause" from a "crash by situation." And while I don't think the PEER formula is entirely accurate (Robert Richardson is serviceable, but Bayne and Dillon are replaceable?), but it does give you a good idea as to which drivers are producing up to their equipment's standards and which ones are not. That's why I use some of those advanced statistics because it's a good indicator as to which drivers are producing and running well, even if their official statistics don't tell the whole story." Amen! "No formula is perfect and I don't look at any formula or points system as the "be all, end all" (although the Formula One points system is the best one I've seen), but from what I've seen, the stuff that David Smith has seems to be the most accurate as far as measuring performance." I thought my point system was pretty good, anyway. 516. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few of you guys have given your opinions on current Nationwide drivers, so I'll give mine as well. - Justin Allgaier: Deserving of a Cup ride and probably the most Cup-ready prospect in the series. Whether or not he'll succeed is another story, but I just want to see him be given an opportunity so I don't have to wonder any longer. - Michael Annett: He'll probably get at least a part-time Cup ride with RPM in the next few years, but he needs at least 1-2 more full Nationwide seasons before I would pull the trigger on him. A Nationwide win would certainly boost his Cup stock. - Trevor Bayne: I think cjs may have a point about Bayne not being motivated after winning the Daytona 500 in just his 2nd Cup start. Leaving Roush after this season, whether on his own terms or Roush's, could give his career some new life. - Mike Bliss: Should be in a better Nationwide ride, but not a Cup prospect at this point. - Juan Carlos Blum: I don't see much Cup potential from him. He'd be better off running ARCA/K&N this season than Nationwide. - Alex Bowman: Needs 1-2 more years of Nationwide seasoning before he's ready for Cup. Might need to switch teams after this season in order to garnish more Cup interest. - Landon Cassill: Could be a candidate for a 1st- or 2nd-tier Nationwide ride next season, which would help improve his Cup stock. I can see him having a decent Cup career if given the right situation. - Jeremy Clements: Talented owner/driver with an alliance to RCR. I hope Jim Davis is wrong about his comments permanently damaging his career, but sadly I can see that being the case in this PC friendly world (but then again, RCR is pursuing Kurt Busch, who threatened a reporter last year, so you never know). - Jamie Dick: Pretty talented driver, but should definitely stick to Nationwide or lower for the time being. - Austin Dillon: Has mentally checked out from Nationwide this year, but will run Cup full-time next year regardless. I'm not expecting much from him in Cup. - Jeffrey Earnhardt: Driving for his uncle's Nationwide team might be the best ride he can get. - Joey Gase: He doesn't tear up equipment or cause any internal or external problems with the team or competitors. For a 20-year old driver driving for Jimmy Means and with limited experience prior to last season, he's doing about as well as he can. - Jeff Green: Personally, I would love to see him in a full distance ride, but he's probably best suited as a driver/coach at this point in his career. - Sam Hornish, Jr.: He'll probably get a full-time ride at Penske in 2014 or 2015, but I think he's best suited for the Nationwide Series. - Parker Kligerman: I see a lot of Cup potential in this guy. Replacing Brian Vickers in the #20 car next season would be a great stepping stone ride before he goes to Cup. - Blake Koch: Valuable small team Nationwide driver due to his solid qualifying ability. The best team I can see him going to would be RPM if they started a 2nd Nationwide team. - Kyle Larson: The most naturally talented Cup prospect. Being able to reign in that overly-aggressive driving style will help his chances at succeeding in Cup. Might need to switch teams (Penske perhaps?) in order to enhance his Cup stock. - Johanna Long: Changing teams would be the best move for her. JRM might be the most desirable ride for her, especially since Dale Jr. enjoys working with young drivers. - Hal Martin: Shouldn't be in a full-time Nationwide ride considering his mediocre ARCA results while driving for Venturini. Chad Hackenbracht will split time with him later this year, which could send him packing by season's end. - Eric McClure: Career Nationwide driver. The dissolution of his uncle's Cup team ended his Cup career. - Joe Nemechek: I think being an owner/driver in Cup and Nationwide is the best that he can hope for at this point. - Travis Pastrana: Should be driving for a smaller team with less expectations. TriStar would be an ideal team for him because he'd be surrounded by veteran (and champion) teammates, learn these race cars without the pressure to perform right away, and would bring funding to help out the small multi-car team. - Nelson Piquet, Jr.: Very underwhelming so far this season, but I think his driving style would be best suited for Cup. He needs a few more years of seasoning first, which is what he wants anyways. - Elliott Sadler: Will probably get another shot at Cup, but would be better suited sticking to Nationwide full-time. - Brian Scott: Might get a shot at Cup with either a small team or as the 3rd or 4th driver of a mid-tier multi-car team (i.e RCR, RPM), but might be better off sticking to Nationwide. - Regan Smith: Definitely worthy of a Cup return, but might be better off sticking to Nationwide for another year if he can't get a 1st- or 2nd-tier Cup ride. - Reed Sorenson: Belongs in the Nationwide Series. Could be considered for a 2nd full-time RPM car if the team expands. - Kevin Swindell: Has shown potential in his limited Nationwide runs with Biagi. A full-time ride next season, where he competes on more than just intermediates, would give us a better indication on his Cup potential. - Brian Vickers: Likely to drive the #55 MWR car next season, which would open the door for Kligerman to replace him in Nationwide. He's run better this season than his results show. - Mike Wallace: Nationwide or Trucks is where he belongs. - Jason White: Might get another shot at Cup with a sponsor-driven team like FAS Lane, but other than that I don't see much Cup potential from him. - Josh Wise: Might be the perfect choice for a 2nd RPM Nationwide ride, given his clean driving style and Christian lifestyle. 517. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I totally agree with you in regards to Foyt's farce of a title in 1979. In fact, I don't even count it, which is why I've always referred to him as a 6-time IndyCar champion. But I disagree with you in regards to how hard NASCAR is. Maybe driving the car itself is substantially easier than it once was, though that's somewhat cancelled out by the much higher speeds of today. But the competition is such that it's almost impossible for one driver to dominate, which is why, of the top 20 drivers in the three top forms of motorsports, I consider at least eight of them to be drivers in NASCAR's top series, and that total would have been 12 four years ago, but since the level of competition in IndyCar and even F1 is going up, more of their drivers can ve considered. I know virtually nothing about the other forms of racing worldwide, which is why I pin it down to NACAR's top series, IndyCar, and F1. After all, they are considered by many to be the three top racing series in the world, and have been since at least 1980-'85, when NASCAR made it an undoubtable threesome. 518. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think Pastrana has probably the best personality among all the prospects, and possibly in the entire garage period." Definitely. He makes racing fun from a personality standpoint, and I wish more drivers could be as enthusiastic, without coming off as fake or contrived, as Pastrana has been. That being said, he should be driving for a smaller team, as the expectations for him to perform right away at Roush are far too high for someone of his stock car experience. "In other words, that she might have her career Ward Burton'd." Not gonna lie, that's the driver I was thinking of when I made that comment. "I thought my point system was pretty good, anyway." I actually designed my own points system shortly after you showed us yours a while back. Here's how it goes: - 1st place: 110 points - 43rd place: 3 points - 1st-6th place: 5-point increments - 6th-11th place: 4-point increments - 11th-21st place: 3-point increments - 21st-31st place: 2-point increments - 31st-43rd place: 1-point increments - 2 bonus points for leading, another 2 bonus points for leading the most laps With these points increments and bonus points, he winner will always score three or more points than the 2nd place driver with the bonus points. Also, drivers who finish in the top five will always score more points than the driver behind them, while drivers who finish in the top ten will never score fewer points than the driver behind them. It is possible from 11th place on back to score as many or fewer points than the driver who finished behind them, which helps drivers who ran up front recover some lost points from a poor finish. 519. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NicoRosbergFan, I totally agree with you in regards to Foyt's farce of a title in 1979. In fact, I don't even count it, which is why I've always referred to him as a 6-time IndyCar champion." I looked it up, and while I'm certainly no USAC expert, how was this title a farce? Was it because of his domination? "I actually designed my own points system shortly after you showed us yours a while back. Here's how it goes: - 1st place: 110 points - 43rd place: 3 points - 1st-6th place: 5-point increments - 6th-11th place: 4-point increments - 11th-21st place: 3-point increments - 21st-31st place: 2-point increments - 31st-43rd place: 1-point increments - 2 bonus points for leading, another 2 bonus points for leading the most laps With these points increments and bonus points, he winner will always score three or more points than the 2nd place driver with the bonus points. Also, drivers who finish in the top five will always score more points than the driver behind them, while drivers who finish in the top ten will never score fewer points than the driver behind them. It is possible from 11th place on back to score as many or fewer points than the driver who finished behind them, which helps drivers who ran up front recover some lost points from a poor finish." Now, can you calculate it? Or do I get stuck with the task? Because you know I want to see the results. 520. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Now, can you calculate it? Or do I get stuck with the task? Because you know I want to see the results." Haha, I actually designed this points system for a video game, but I can certainly calculate it on my own. One quick question: Do you think I should give the winner 112 points instead of 110, just so the winner will always score at least five points (difference between 2nd and 3rd place) more than the 2nd place car? Once I get some feedback on that I'll begin calculating. 521. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, David. I don't count Foyt's 1979 title because everyone else was in CART. Foyt was the only name driver to stay in USAC, so he was virtually unopposed in USAC in 1979. That's why I don't count Foyt's 1979 title with the other six. 522. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "One quick question: Do you think I should give the winner 112 points instead of 110, just so the winner will always score at least five points (difference between 2nd and 3rd place) more than the 2nd place car?" Yes, I do, because there should be a larger margin between first and second than anywhere else. My system takes that to the extreme, but you don't have to do the same. "Haha, I actually designed this points system for a video game" Which video game? I designed one for "NASCAR Kart Racing", that's based heavily on the one in "Mario Kart". Of course, it's only for a twelve car field. 523. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Which video game?" NASCAR Racing 2003 Season, of course. In championship mode, the drivers have to be in the same car (number and paint scheme) the entire season, otherwise the game counts them as two separate drivers. So I usually just import my race results into this points converter system called Score4, and it calculates the points using my points system (there are other default points systems as well, but I like mine better than the original/2004/2007 Latford systems because of the different point increments throughout the entire running order. It's pretty sweet. I think it was originally designed for online play, but it works for offline play as well. 524. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't count Foyt's 1979 title because everyone else was in CART." So you're telling me that beating the likes of Billy Vukovich, Jr., Tom Bigelow, Jerry Sneva, and Sheldon Kinser wasn't as meaningful as if he were to beat the likes of Rick Mears, Al and Bobby Unser, Gordon Johncock, and Johnny Rutherford that same year instead? 525. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How does this sound? 1st - 1000 pts 2nd - 750 pts 3rd - 600 pts 4-43 decrease in 15 pt increments to 0 for 43rd. 20 pts for pole 1 pt for every lap/mile led, depending on which is greater. Heavy rewards for winning, but also rewarding consistency enough so that while say Jeff Gordon would have won in 1996, it doesn't reward wins enough to give Newman 2003. 526. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't count Foyt's 1979 title because everyone else was in CART." I don't know a whole lot, but I do know that CART was formed and split from USAC in 1979. Sometimes, I can't put two and two together. 527. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1 pt for every lap/mile led, depending on which is greater." Oh great, a points system where drivers can pick up fractions of points. One lap led at Talladega would equal 2.66 points under this system. Going from universal one-point increments to decimal points is a big step, Nico, and I'm not sure NASCAR fans are quite up to the task. :) 528. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course not Paul, and by listing the names of some of the drivers in the competing series, you actually answered your own question, probably without realizing it. That's why that idea that was floating around about 15 years ago about splitting NASCAR's top series into two divisions was such a terrible idea, and that's why not many give credence to the winners of the Indianapolis 500 from 1996-'99, though one of them, Arie Luyendyk, who won it in 1997, had won the race against the superstars of two (if not three) generations when he won it in 1990 at the speed that is still the record today. But having an A.J. Foyt car leading the points entering Indy in a united series for the first time since 1975, or having the #43 car in NASCAR doing as well as it has been doing (four consecutive top tens until Darlington), or having the Wood Brothers win the Daytona 500 as they did two years ago, is great if for no other reason than to have a conversation about the legends of the sport and the nostalgia they bring today when they do well, as Foyt's #14 and Petty's #43 are today, as the Wood Brothers did two years ago at Daytona. Interestingly, the last time Petty's #43 went to victory lane was in 1999 (with John Andretti at Martinsville), the same year that Foyt's #14 last won the Indianapolis 500 (with Kenny Brack). 529. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR Racing 2003 Season, of course." I downloaded the 2007 updated version of that. It played for a while, then it quit working. Actually, I guess it never worked correctly, because I could never drive the car. I mainly used it to watch races. It was kind of fun, too. I do want to buy and download the original version, sometime. And then install all the modifications on it, too. 530. Paul posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) cjs, you definitely need a lesson in sarcasm. 531. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, that's a terrible idea for a number of reasons, and the race at Darlington showcased one of them, and that is that it's possible under your system for someone other than the winner to get the most points, especially if it's a race with 300, 400, or 500 laps in it. Had Kyle Busch finished second, he would have gained exactly 19 points less than Kenseth would have (out of more than 1000), and it's possible for a driver finishing last to gain more points than the guy that finishes tenth, as unlikely as it seems. Unless I'm mistaken, isn't that the very reason why Bob Latford's point system came to be in 1975, because there were races like the Southern 500, where Richard Petty got more points than Darrell Waltrip, despite finishing 35th, while Waltrip finished second? To me, that's just pure lunacy. And of course, another reason that's such a bad idea is that a system that rewards winning so heavily also promotes cheating, and nothing good comes from that. The system I devised last year rewards both winning and consistency, because it promotes running up front by weighing the top finishing positions more, but doesn't tip that scale too far to where cheating can be promoted. In my system, somewhere between 10th and 13th would represent the middle of the points scale. Another reason I don't like your idea is because of the rewards for qualifying. If someone wants to, they can just earn a few cheap points by running a special engine for qualifying, get the pole, risk a failure after qualifying, and start from the back of the field with a new engine without further penalty. And if they do that enough, they can more than make up for one or two bad finishes based on qualifying alone. Wasn't qualifying specials the very thing the one-engine rule was designed to prevent when it was introduced in 2002? I guarantee you'd be bringing those special qualifying engines back if you did that, especially considering that pole positions now get you in the Shootout again. In other words, that idea would send engine costs skyrocketing. 532. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.13.2013 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It would be just one of a series of rules, cjs. There would be rules put in force to ensure there'd be no qualifying engines (maybe blow the engine afterward, don't get to start the race?). The idea is to encourage teams to be up front as much as possible without having people play vulture like Kevin Harvick and Greg Biffle do. 533. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "cjs, you definitely need a lesson in sarcasm." Don't blame him. I couldn't detect it either, and I use it ALL THE TIME. "One lap led at Talladega would equal 2.66 points under this system. Going from universal one-point increments to decimal points is a big step, Nico, and I'm not sure NASCAR fans are quite up to the task." Hahaha...sad, but true. 534. cjs3872 posted: 05.13.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The vast majority of the teams do try to stay up front. It's just that some drivers want to lead every lap, while others are smarter and realize that it's only the end that counts. After all, those that think they have to lead every lap, like a Kyle Busch, are also the ones most at risk of breaking or making a mistake. How many times have we seen Kyle Busch, or other drvers like him, make a mistake by running harder than they need to. Back when CBS first televised the Daytona 500, David Hobbs made the most accurate comment when he said that lap 200 (the last one) is the only lap that really counts. Guys can dominate all they want, but if they can't finish the job, what good does it do? The vast majority of the drivers that are successful are the ones that don't try to lead every lap because they know their equipment can't take that kind of abuse more often than not. The Unser brothers are a perfect example of this. Bobby charged al the time, running as hard as he could, while his brother Al always laid back and saved his stuff. If Bobby had his brother's patience, he would have won more races, and the one time he did exercise that kind of patience was at Indy in 1975. That day, he ran a conservative race, the kind his brother was known for running, and he watched as everyone in front of him had trouble, and got the lead not long before the monsoon that ended the race hit. And the one time Al tried Bobby's strategy at Indy, which was in 1979, his car broke at about the halfway point. And charging to lead every lap is as foolish today as it was then. Another reason for that is that you're alway showing your hand to the rest of the field, but often, they're not showing everything they've got, and when it's time to show it, they've actually got a better than than you do, so to speak. I believe that, other than luck, that was always Dale Earnhardt's biggest flaw at the Daytona 500. He always showed what he had, but his competition didn't always show what they had until they needed it, and when they did, Earnhardt didn't have anything in reserve to counter back. 535. Sean posted: 05.13.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) [Comment deleted at the poster's request.] 536. Sean posted: 05.13.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) [Comment deleted at the poster's request.] 537. Sean posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) [Comment deleted at the poster's request.] 538. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Example: On the Richmond Cup race thread, David wrote, 'David Smith also said he would work for NASCAR if he got Brian France's job, which would be AMAZING.'" I over-exaggerated that comment. That was more out of spite for Brian France than being a fan of David Smith. Sorry to start you on that rant. "I'm not sure if this site's David supports the Chase or not" I don't. Contrary to popular belief, I don't agree with everything David Smith says, though I do agree with him on many things. The thing is, he was the first to even develop a equipment-independent ratings system (as far as I know). Where has this analysis been all these years?!?! Other sports are way ahead of us!! We should have had this kind of stuff years ago! You see, I absolutely, positively, completely and totally LOVE numbers and stats. I am a fan of "Moneyball". Really, the main reason I even subscribed to his site in the first place is because I had never seen stats like his before. and he knew how to analyze them, too. He was a "trailblazer", when we should have had people experimenting with these concepts a LONG time ago. And apparently, he has rapidly gained acceptance. He has written for NASCAR Illustrated, Sports Illustrated, and Athlon Sports. So we aren't the only ones to buy into his stats. I'll just leave it at that. 539. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am far from an Indy Car historian and even I got the sarcasm in that post. And to not count AJ's title that year is total garbage. Points sytems are points systems and it isn't his fault the people that run open wheel have been incompetent on the Brian France level for so long. The only time it is ok to just ignore a title is an extreme case like 1956. Once agin, if we are gonna call Richard Petty the 1974 Winston Cup champion (and we are), then there is no reason to ignore a title. 540. David posted: 05.13.2013 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No offense to racing-reference David and Paul, by the way. I like you both." Aww, shucks. :) "Some of his individual analyses are indeed great (Top 15 Efficiency, for example) but I just disagree with most of his overall ideas about racing, and I personally think his more youthful, less stats-based, columns were actually more interesting." Agree to disagree. "Holy crap. You're speaking my language mostly now despite being the strongest Latford defender here before. I still think positions from 25th or 30th on back should score the same points, but even IndyCar (which did that recently) went away from it and awarded differential points to the bottom positions, so I guess I'll give up on that. A system like that is basically all I wanted, but I agree with cjs that I probably wouldn't want to create a system where the 2nd place finisher could score more points than the winner." I don't really want to post my system here AGAIN, but it has got most of those concepts. Unfortunately, with my system, Newman won in '03, clinching with one race left. But he didn't take the points lead until Talladega late in the season, when Matt Kenseth blew an engine and he finished in the top five. 541. The Long Shot posted: 05.14.2013 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't really want to post my system here AGAIN" Whereabouts did you post it before? I'm interested to see it. 542. David posted: 05.14.2013 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Whereabouts did you post it before? I'm interested to see it." Darn, I don't remember. I wish I could remember where I put things. *sigh* Here it is, again. 1. 84 2. 59 3. 55 4. 51 5. 47 6. 43 7. 40 8. 37 9. 34 10. 31 11. 28 12. 26 13. 24 14. 22 15. 20 16. 18 17. 17 18. 16 19. 15 20. 14 21. 13 22. 12 23. 11 24. 10 25. 9 26. 8 27. 8 28. 8 29. 7 30. 7 31. 7 32. 6 33. 6 34. 6 35. 5 36. 5 37. 5 38. 4 39. 4 40. 4 41. 3 42. 3 43. 3 Pole: 2 (don't start, I am well aware of the disadvantages) Lap Led: 2 Most Led: 2 With this system, winning is rewarded handsomely, but there is importance placed on consistency, too. And best of all, it keeps it on a small scale. I prefer small-scale points systems to large-scale points systems. 543. Paul posted: 05.14.2013 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright, I have just now completed the current Sprint Cup points standings under my points system in post 518 (with the winner receiving 112 points, instead of 110). I'll also note in parentheses any changes in positions between real life and my points system. Here it is: 1. Jimmie Johnson - 955 points 2. Carl Edwards - 828 points 3. Matt Kenseth - 822 points 4. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 757 points 5. Brad Keselowski - 754 points (+2) 6. Clint Bowyer - 740 points (-1) 7. Kyle Busch - 708 points (+1) 8. Kasey Kahne - 698 points (-2) 9. Kevin Harvick - 645 points (+1) 10. Martin Truex, Jr. - 624 points (+4) 11. Jeff Gordon - 622 points (+1) 12. Greg Biffle - 619 points (+1) 13. Aric Almirola - 609 points (-4) 14. Paul Menard - 580 points (-3) 15. Joey Logano - 557 points (+4) 16. Ryan Newman - 538 points (+1) 17. Jamie McMurray - 538 points (-2) 18. Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. - 501 points (-2) 19. Kurt Busch - 492 points (-1) 20. Jeff Burton - 441 points 21. Mark Martin - 435 points (+3) <-- 9 starts 22. Tony Stewart - 434 points (-1) <-- 11 starts 23. Juan Pablo Montoya - 424 points (-1) 24. Marcos Ambrose - 402 points (+1) 25. Denny Hamlin - 394 points (+2) <-- 7 starts 26. Casey Mears - 332 points (-1) <-- 11 starts 27. David Ragan - 324 points (-1) 28. Danica Patrick - 308 points 29. David Gilliland - 301 points (+2) 30. Bobby Labonte - 299 points (-1) 31. Dave Blaney - 287 points (-1) 32. A.J. Allmendinger - 230 points (+5) <-- 4 starts 33. J.J. Yeley - 227 points (-1) <-- 11 starts 34. David Reutimann - 217 points 35. David Stremme - 216 points (-2) 36. Travis Kvapil - 175 points 37. Landon Cassill - 169 points (-2) 38. Michael McDowell - 138 points (+1) 39. Scott Speed - 134 points (-1) 40. Michael Waltrip - 130 points 41. Terry Labonte - 71 points 42. Timmy Hill - 55 points 43. Ken Schrader - 35 points 44. Scott Riggs - 12 points 45. Brian Keselowski - 6 points I think this points system does a good job of allowing drivers with a few bad runs to make up for them with a number of good finishes, as the points system is actually weighted out in different increments, with the highest positions in larger increments than lower positions. That's why Martin Truex, Jr. and Greg Biffle are in the Chase (and Jeff Gordon is more solidly in) with this system, while Aric Almirola and Paul Menard are not. While I'm enjoying the latter two currently placed in the top ten in points, they haven't been running as high or as frequently as the likes of Truex, Gordon, and Biffle, and my points system reflects that. Even though he's only running a part-time schedule, A.J. Allmendinger's five position gain is proof that the position increments throughout the running order has a big effect on points, as he passed five full-time drivers in my points system (three of whom have competed in all 11 races so far). Despite competing in six or seven fewer races than those drivers, Dinger was rewarded quite a bit for his four top 16 finishes, as finishes from 11th-21st are weighted higher than positions 21st-31st and 31st-43rd, where the five drivers who he passed are frequently running. I'll try to post the current Nationwide and Truck standings using my points system tomorrow. 544. Paul posted: 05.14.2013 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1. 84 2. 59 ... Pole: 2 (don't start, I am well aware of the disadvantages)" It's times like these that one asks them self, "What would Cjs say?" Well, look no further. Here's a slightly edited version of what he stated in post 531: "And of course, another reason that's such a bad idea is that a system that rewards winning [and winning the pole] so heavily also promotes cheating, and nothing good comes from that." Yep. You better adjust your points system, David. Cjs foreshadowed your points system in a prior post, and he strongly disagrees. 545. Paul posted: 05.14.2013 - 2:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm glad that you went on that long rant, Sean. I learned quite a lot about David Smith from what you said. I've listened to a few of his podcasts and read through his tweets, and kind of got the feeling that he was a mainstream analyst with mainstream NASCAR ideas. Earlier today I asked him who he would put in Roush's Nationwide cars based on their present production (I suggested Bliss, Bowman, and Buescher), and while he and I agreed that Buescher should be in one car and both Bayne and Pastrana should be let go, he wanted Carl Edwards and Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. to split time in the 2nd Roush Nationwide car, as opposed to putting a full-time driver to compete for the championship instead. I can see where he's coming from and they would likely bring additional funding to the team, but it just sort of came off as a mainstream media-type of answer, and didn't exactly answer my question either (although that's partially my fault since I didn't directly address current production in my tweet). But for every idea of his that I disagree with (Cup drivers are good for Nationwide Series, the Chase is a good idea, crash frequency, etc.), there are other ideas of his or suggestions that he makes that I do agree with. I really like his T15E formula, which is a good indicator of how effective drivers are at maintaining or improving their running position, as well as his clutch formula, which shows how effective drivers are at gaining/losing positions on a G-W-C when they know they need to gain positions quickly (although I think he could expand that to include the final 10 laps or so instead). And while his PEER formula isn't perfect and only calculates finishes, as opposed to some of his other formulas which take into account how well a driver runs during the race, I like how it takes into account the differences in equipment strength between teams. So a win by a 2nd- or 3rd-tier team (i.e David Ragan at Talladega) is rewarded more than a win for a 1st-tier team (i.e Matt Kenseth at Darlington). It doesn't give you a good indication as to how well that driver performed during the race, but it does show how important that finish was for that team, considering the strength of their equipment. A win for a 1st-tier team is like a top five finish for a 2nd-tier team, or a top 10 finish for a 3rd-tier team, or a top 15 finish for a 4th-tier team. And as Cjs mentioned in post 534 when he was quoting David Hobbs, at the end of the day it's where you finish that counts. So while I can understand why there would be disagreements about the formula and how it doesn't take into account how well a driver did throughout the race, it is a solid indicator of how well that driver is finishing (and producing) considering the strength of his/her equipment. It's not perfect and not everybody will understandably agree with it, but it does its job the way it was intended. "he gave me a response that I thought was odd, claiming that Jeff Gordon would have cherry-picked and skipped races if NASCAR had developed a more F1/CART-style points system and probably would have lost the title anyway, like the drivers of the '60s." Not gonna lie, I question his sanity after that statement. If he were to cherry-pick any races in a season, it would probably be near the end of the 1995 season when he all but wrapped up that title by the final 1/3 of the season. Some might argue that his team did sort of cherry-pick those final races, considering how many points he lost over the final four races after dominating the entire season. Considering how many terrible finishes he had in '96, not to mention how much the sport had evolved since the '60s when drivers frequently ran partial schedules and weren't tied down by contracts, I don't think there's a chance that he would have missed any races that season if given the opportunity. "he grouped all the great drivers in NASCAR history into five categories: Gunslingers, Conservatives, Aggressors, Cerebral Warriors, and Blue-Collar Drivers" Now that's something that I would love to see, especially eight years after the article was originally written as it would need some provisions and edits to make it more accurate (such as making Kyle Busch a "gunslinger," as opposed to a "conservative"). We have quite a few NASCAR historians on this site, so maybe we could make that a little project of our own. "My ideas I guess are truly far out of the NASCAR mainstream so no one would ever pay me for them." You'll always have a place in the NASCAR underground media. The ratings are low and the pay is lousy, but you'll always have a staunch group of anti-mainstream media supporters who will listen to your ideas. I know I'd rather read your opinions and ideas on auto racing than about 95% of the NASCAR writers and media personalities. For example: You and I have gone back and forth about drivers like Dale Jarrett and Bobby Labonte on their historical rankings in the past, but I'd much rather listen to what you have to say than what the talking heads have to say about them. As much as I like DJ, I disagree with the panel who nominated him for the Hall of Fame so soon, and I especially disagreed with those who used his announcing career sort of as a way to elevate his Hall of Fame nomination status. He's a decent announcer, but it's not like he's so great that it's enhanced his career the way it has for his father or Benny Parsons. We may disagree on trivial things like that, but as least I know that when I hear something from you about things like driver greatness, the points system, and the media, among other things, I know I'm getting your honest opinion on the matter. In fact, you're so honest that you even admitted that you have your own personal bias when it comes to certain issues. I can respect that, even if I disagree. Keep doing what you're doing. "I've been having more fun playing Scrabble and in the Scrabble community than I have been analyzing racing lately..." I actually won a class Scrabble tournament back in 6th grade. I haven't played that game in a long time, but I remember having a lot of fun with it and how it really got my brain going while I was playing. Seeing as how watching some of these races nowadays and trying to follow the sport closely can have an opposite effect on your brain, you're probably better off playing Scrabble than analyzing races anyways. 546. JG24FanForever posted: 05.14.2013 - 3:19 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Considering how many terrible finishes he had in '96" My favorite irony of the 1996 season is that it's okay to say that Gordon didn't deserve the title for having 2 more DNF's than Terry,thus Terry deserved the title, but somehow having 8 more wins isn't important. 1996 proves that the points system doesn't care if you are the best. And 2007 proves the same. 547. Sean posted: 05.14.2013 - 3:36 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) [Comment deleted at the poster's request.] 548. Sean posted: 05.14.2013 - 3:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't necessarily agree about 2007. 10 wins/24 top 10s vs. 6 wins/30 top 10s is a real debate (especially since Gordon's wins in 2007 were mostly really, really lucky, luckier than in most other seasons), but Johnson was also extremely lucky in his four-in-a-row streak where he barely led several of those races. It's debatable, and I can understand and accept a Johnson championship for that season. I definitely agree with you about 1996. 549. Sean posted: 05.14.2013 - 3:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I think I'd go with Gordon for 2007 but not by as much as the overall season points would indicate... 30 top tens is massive, but I just wasn't impressed with most of his wins last year, that mostly seemed like Newmanesque flukes. That's definitely Gordon's most overrated season (and 2003 is his most underrated...) 550. Paul posted: 05.14.2013 - 3:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1996 proves that the points system doesn't care if you are the best. And 2007 proves the same." Not that long ago I went through every NASCAR season in the top three series and proclaimed that along with his four official titles, Jeff Gordon was the deserving champion in '96 and '07 as well, and is in my eyes an uncrowned 6-time Cup champion. Not everyone agreed with my '96 title proclamation *glares at NicoRosbergFan*, but I'm glad that at least nobody spoke out against my '07 title proclamation, where Gordon was basically robbed of the title before our very eyes. Chad Knaus may as well have kidnapped Gordon's family after the Charlotte race that fall and told him he would kill his family if he didn't roll over for Johnson over the next five races. It's too bad Gordon has real emotions and feelings like a normal human being. If he had the emotional capacity of the Emotionless Juggernaut, he would have won that championship. Would have lost his family, but who cares about family and relationships when you can trade them all in for a championship. That's what Chad prefers in his drivers. I also initially made a mistake by naming Jeff Gordon as the uncrowned 1992 Busch Series champion, where I was immediately called out for being high, a Jeff Gordon fanboy, and biased towards Jeff Gordon by very various people on here. Now I soon after went back and retracted my that statement, stating that Joe Nemechek was the deserving '92 champion after looking through the stat sheet and various circumstances (he drove six races with burns all over his body), but I love that line of thinking. Just a day or two before I made that statement that got me in more hot water than Randy LaJoie when he was literally getting high at Charlotte a few years back, I was mocking Gordon for his "unmanly" personality, even thinking of some humorous "Batman & Robin-like" commercials that could have been aired between he and Dale Earnhardt. Hell, I even declared Jimmie Johnson, who I do not like, as being deserving of five titles (just not all five that he won in real life). I've even called Gordon out on his tendency to roll over for his teammates during races, especially when championships are on the line. And unlike some people on here, I have never once said that Jeff Gordon was better than Dale Earnhardt, and must not be ranked higher than 4th on anybody's all-time greatest drivers list (behind Petty, Pearson, and Earnhardt). Yet, I'm the one whose being called high, biased, and a fanboy? I know this is old news and everything and doesn't have much to do with what we're talking about, but those remarks have bothered me for a long time and I just wanted to air them out. So yeah, thanks JG24. You shaved your "crash stache," missed the Darlington race for the first time in six years, and inadvertently caused me to blow off some steam. It's been quite a week for you. Any more "historical" Jeff Gordon-related events or situations you want to share with us? :) 551. Paul posted: 05.14.2013 - 4:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "(and 2003 is his most underrated...)" He ranked 2nd behind Newman in top fives with 15, led the series in laps led by over 450 laps, and ranked 5th in average finish (12.9) despite having a terrible summer, which included six finishes of 24th or worse in a seven race stretch, two of which he led over 100 laps. My favorite of which was at Watkins Glen when Kevin Harvick decided that rather than pass Gordon (who had already run out of gas earlier that lap) like Dale Jr. and Johnson before him, he would instead run him over coming onto the frontstretch, costing Gordon 91 points in the process! Before that late summer surge, Gordon was "just" 165 points behind Matt Kenseth, one of two drivers to be within 300 points of Kenseth at that point, and might have been able to run him down had he not run into a serious amount of trouble and bad luck in that 7-race span. He even did what Kenseth couldn't do in 2003, which was win twice in the weeks that followed, as well as 6 straight top five finishes. It helped him move from 6th to 4th place in points, but it likely could have won him the title if he didn't have so many poor finishes in a short period of time. 552. JG24FanForever posted: 05.14.2013 - 4:13 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I don't necessarily agree about 2007. 10 wins/24 top 10s vs. 6 wins/30 top 10s is a real debate" Going by the overall points system. How many drivers with 10 win seasons have finished 353 or more points behind the overall point earner in the Modern era? Answer: Only Pearson in 1973 and 1976. Gordon's average finish in 2007 was 7.3 He won Darlington,swept Talladega and tied Big E in career wins at Phoenix and finished in the Top 10 at least once at every race-track that year. He was robbed as much in 2007 as he was in 1996. 553. JG24FanForever posted: 05.14.2013 - 4:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Answer: Only Pearson in 1973 and 1976 and Jimmie Johnson in 2007. 554. Paul posted: 05.14.2013 - 4:47 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) The points system is what cost Gordon the '96 title. Had the 2004 version of the Latford system been in place in 1996, where the winner receives an extra five points on 2nd place, Gordon would have won the title by three points. Johnson on the other hand scored 353 fewer overall points than Gordon in 2007. The winner of each race could have been given 88 bonus points for every win and he still wouldn't have won the title that season. "The only time it is ok to just ignore a title is an extreme case like 1956." Buck Baker was the deserving champion of 1956. "if we are gonna call Richard Petty the 1974 Winston Cup champion (and we are), then there is no reason to ignore a title." While I agree with your overall point, you're comparing apples and oranges. A.J. Foyt won the 1979 USAC title by default, thanks to his lack of competition. Richard Petty on the other hand still had to show up and perform every week to win the title. Yes, I know that his Daytona 500 win likely sealed the deal on his championship because prize money used to be calculated into the points total, but he still had to win 10 races and lead over 3,000 laps against the likes of Cale Yarborough, David Pearson, and Bobby Allison in their primes. Big difference. A better comparison to the '79 USAC championship would be the 2007 Busch Series championship. Carl Edwards had NO competition that season. His biggest competition was Kevin Harvick, who missed nine races and still finished 4th in the points. Bobby Hamilton, Jr. had 0 top fives, led just one lap all season, and still finished 6th in the points. David Reutimann finished 2nd in points driving for MWR and had one-third as many top fives as Edwards had. Even though that was a terrible championship season and I hate that Cup drivers won five straight Busch/Nationwide titles before NASCAR finally woke up and created the points eligibility rule, I still recognize Carl Edwards as the 2007 NASCAR Busch Series champion. There. There's your comparison. By the way, if any NASCAR championship deserved to have co-champions, it was the 1974 Winston Cup title between Petty and Yarborough. Their stats are practically identical across the board. 555. JG24FanForever posted: 05.14.2013 - 4:59 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Buck Baker was the deserving champion of 1956." Wins: Buck Baker 14 Herb Thomas 5 Races Led Most: Buck Baker 8 Herb Thomas 1 Poles: Buck Baker 12 Herb Thomas 2 Laps Led: Buck Baker 1406 Herb Thomas 257 Top 5's: Buck Baker 31 Herb Thomas 22 Yep. 556. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.14.2013 - 7:08 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Be fair and give Herb a break. In all 5 of his 1956 wins, we don't even have a lap-leader breakdown. 557. David posted: 05.14.2013 - 9:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darn, now I can't read Motorsports Analytics without thinking about Sean's rant. If anyone is interested anymore, Denny Hamlin's PEER is 3.167, which ranks fourth among drivers who have run at least six races (and this does NOT include his start at Talladega). Sean, single-race PEERs are multiples of 0.25. I just checked. 558. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.14.2013 - 11:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just want to mention since no one addressed it that we will probably never see anyone get 300 top5s again unless nascar open the rulebook so to speak.Johnson could but he is only just on course to reach 300 after more than 20 seasons which he won't do and this does not take into account a drop off in his later years when he passes 42 your peak ends then in nascar.That is also the same reason why he won't reach 100 wins and will end up with 75-90 wins when he hangs up his helmet. Kyle Busch can easily do 25 years for a career in nascar but his productivity at the moment isn't good enough and for those who say he is too young Gordon was winning 10 races a year at his age and Petty was just about to assault the nascar record books the likes of which we will not see again for 50 years. The thing that is wrong with the chase is that it places too much emphasise on certain tracks more so than the season long points tally did.Busch gets heavily penalised for having his 3 best tracks(Bristol Richmond Watkins glen not in the chase compared to sayJohnson with dover and Martinsville. I secretely hope Johnson has a fantasy nascar year and breaks like every record say 32top5s and 34top10s and leads 3500 laps and loses the championship via the chase because someone matches him over the final 10 races.It would be like with Kenseth and Newman only by 10 and in reverse and we can revert to a true 36 race season long championship. 559. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.14.2013 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Kenseth also seems to agree with you in terms of the prestige he holds for the southern 500.He called it his biggest win, this coming from a 2 time Daytona 500 winner. 560. The Long Shot posted: 05.14.2013 - 12:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "when he passes 42 your peak ends then in nascar." KFI, there is no peak for drivers in general. It depends on the individual. Lee Petty, Richard Petty, Bobby Allison, and Dale Jarrett won championships when they were past 42. Mark Martin finished 2nd in points when he was 50. Hell, Morgan Shepherd was still running full-time in Nationwide when he was 70, and James Hylton is running a full-time ARCA schedule at the age of 78. 78! "Kyle Busch can easily do 25 years for a career in nascar but his productivity at the moment isn't good enough and for those who say he is too young Gordon was winning 10 races a year at his age and Petty was just about to assault the nascar record books the likes of which we will not see again for 50 years." Busch has made a lot more foolish mistakes than Gordon ever did, and with the exception of David Pearson, Petty was virtually unopposed when he made his attack on the record books. Frankly, I'm not sure if we'll ever see someone have as much success as Petty did back in the late 60s and early 70s. It won't be anytime soon. that's for sure. The incoming rookie crop (Larson, Kligerman, Bowman, Wallace, Burton, Truex, both Dillons, etc.) is far too good. 561. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.14.2013 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Also Paul you are from Minnesota right what do you think of the Vikings new stadium , personally I don't like it. 562. David posted: 05.14.2013 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I secretely hope Johnson has a fantasy nascar year and breaks like every record say 32top5s and 34top10s and leads 3500 laps and loses the championship via the chase because someone matches him over the final 10 races.It would be like with Kenseth and Newman only by 10 and in reverse and we can revert to a true 36 race season long championship." Actually, that would be FREAKING AWESOME!!! Except for the whole "record-breaking year" thing. 563. David posted: 05.14.2013 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Cjs foreshadowed your points system in a prior post, and he strongly disagrees." I already know that. By the way, Paul, did you adjust your points system for penalties? If so, what are they? 564. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.14.2013 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Paul, after Richard won the Daytona 500 in '74, all he had to do is show up, he didn't really have to perform (see the 1974 Southern 500). But he did perform because of who he is, a competitor. I'm just of the opinion the the point system is the point system. Does it seem fair that Jeff didn't win it in '96 and '07? No, not at all. But it doesn't seem fair that the 2001 Mariners didn't even make the World Series let alone win it, and although everyone outside of New England loved it, it doesn't seem fair that the 2007 Pats didn't win the championship. What doomed Jeff those two years is the fatal flaw of his career: those late season fades. Not ccollapses or chokes, just the way he often performs at a lesser level at the very end of seasons. I know he had the blown engine at Charlotte '96, but he also got outperformed by Terry at Rockingham and Phoenix. And in the last 5 races of '07 he ran 7th to 10th in races after an entire season of running 1st to 3rd. This is a mystery to me. The ultimate shark when it comes to racing in a race, smelling the lead and a win, pouncing and stomping on the throats of his competition, he never has had those instincts in a title race. Wheras Earnhardt and Johnson had those "alright, time to completely demoralize these guys" moments whether it be a race or even a practice session (like the infamous 1990 Atlanta test). Hell, even Keselowski and Paul Wolfe last year turned in some blistering practice sessions at Phoenix and Homestead forcing the 48 tp push their mechanical limits and ultimately break. (Funny bit about the "Chad kidnapped Jeff's family in '07" bit. I tried to imagine somebody doing that to Dale in the late 80's or early 90's and what came to my mind is this: Dale gets a phone call at home with somebody saying "I have kidnapped Kelley, you must lose the championship or else you will never see her again" followed by Dale saying "who the hell is Kelley?") As for 1956, I cannot in good conscience call Buck Baker the '56 champ. Again, the points system is the points system, and Herb had it won. But Carl K bought some races and had one of his drivers wreck Herb (and put him in a coma and the ICU for a few months). That is what made the difference that year and it is wrong. Period. I like the 5 categories of drivers. Here is who I have as the best in each: Conservative: Darrell Waltrip. Yes, he was conservative, and always seemed to be on the bad end of fender banging incidents (Bobby in '79, Dale in '86, Rusty in '89, Davey in '91). He wasn't a fighter and won a ton of races by saving his stuff, avoiding carnage, and being there in the end. Gunslinger: Fireball Roberts. Of the "Go Or Blow" crowd, he won the most % wise and the most big races. Cerebral Warriors: David Pearson. Simply the best at this by far. Only Gordon is even qualified to carry David's Hush Puppies. Blue Collar: Richard Petty. Still the ultimate "people's driver" even after all these years, and then you look at his success in his family built cars. Aggressor: Dale Earnhardt. Do I need to explain? 565. Eric posted: 05.14.2013 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kubica fan Ireland, I disagree with you when a driver's peak in NASCAR. These following drivers won a cup title when they were 43 years old or older: Dale Earnhardt Sr. was 43 when he won his last cup title. Dale Jarrett won his only cup title when he was almost 43 years old Lee Petty was 44, and 45 when he won his last 2 cup titles, and Bobby Allison was almost 46 years old when he won his only cup title. Ricky Rudd was 45 years old when he had career highs in top 10's and top 5's. That means your comment of a driver's peak is off. It really depends on the driver and a combination things. I seen cup drivers being in their peaks in their 20's and 30's. but I also seen drivers in their peaks in their 40's or early 50's even. A driver turning into a driver/owner or going to a downgrade of a team is one way for a cup driver to end their peak. Bill Elliott is a prime example despite having a comeback from 2001 to 2003 and Geoff Bodine is another good example. A 2nd way a driver's peak could end is if they get into a serious crash because some drivers aren't the same after. Dale Sr. was an example of this despite finishing 2nd in points at the age of 49 in 2000. A 3rd way a driver's peak could end is by having driver close to you die on the track. 566. Eric posted: 05.14.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kubica fan Ireland, There is another problem with you claim about a NASCAR driver's peak ends at 42. Dale Jarrett's peak started when he was almost 40 years old in 1996 and it ended after the 2002 season when he was almost 46 years old. Harry Gant is another example of another driver having his peak in his 40's and early 50's. Harry had a 4 straight cup wins when he was 52 years old even. Mark Martin in 2009 at the age of 50 had his best season in wins since 1998. 567. cjs3872 posted: 05.14.2013 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kubica Fan Ireland, you mention that Knseth said that the Southern 500 was his biggest win, and you cited his 2 Daytona 500 wins. Let's not forget that he also counts the Coca-Cola 600 in 2000 and the All-Star Race in 2004 (though that doesn't count toward his official win total) among the races he's won, so he's won more than a couple big ones. In fact, this is his fourth win in one of NASCAR's crown jewel events, and could have swept the three so far this year. In fact, he joined a very small and exclusive club of drivers that have won all three races that comprised NASCAR's original Triple Crown by winning the Southern 500, NASCAR's original Triple Crown being the Daytona 500, the Coca-Cola (World) 600, and the Southern 500. In fact, greats like Bill Elliott, Fred Lorenzen, Benny Parsons, Rusty Wallace, Ned and Dale Jarrett, and even Cale Yarborough can't even claim that, as each had at least one of the big three missing. And Eric, that's why I use the 17 years/550 starts measuring stick as the point at which drivers tend to start going downhill. You can't necessarily go by age because a driver at 40 may have more racing left in im than another at that same age. That's why I consider Jeff Gordon, at 41, to be an old 41, while someone like Matt Kenseth, who's at that age now, seems to be racing like he's 34-36, or why Dale Earnhardt, Sr. was still at, or near his peak at that age. But a great driver's 17th year seems to be the turning point of his career. Richard Petty (1975), David Pearson (1976), Darrell Waltrip (1989), Dale Earnhardt (1995), and Rusty Wallace (2000) all had their last truly great seasons in their 17th year. Jeff Gordon has never even approached his third place points finish in 2009, which was his 17th year, in the years since. There are exceptions to this, of course. Bobby Allison and Mark Martin fall into the "exceptions" category, but a great driver, regardless of chronological age, usually has 17 seasons where he can be of top-level status before his career goes downhill. 568. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 05.14.2013 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also since it was mentioned on the frontstretch about jgrs number of wins in nationwide and cup I see them achieving minimum of 15 in nationwide and 10-12 in cup 569. Eric posted: 05.14.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth could still be at his peak when he's 45 years old. The fact is Matt's with a great organization with equal equipment for all their drivers. The equipment JGR has is better than Matt got from Roush from most of his career. Roush has great mile and a half equipment, but the short track equipment and road course equipment is so-so. Roush also isn't known for horsepower unlike JGR. 570. Eric posted: 05.14.2013 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, There is an exception to the rule that you didn't mention. Ricky had in 2001 already had over 700 starts, but had career highs in top 5's and top 10's and tied his career high in wins. Ricky Rudd Also had been racing in cup since 1975 when the 2001 season started. That meant Ricky was late in his cup career for getting career highs in top 5's and top 10's. 571. cjs3872 posted: 05.14.2013 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, of course there are other exceptions to that rule. I just happened to list two of them, but there are numerous others. And I don't use the time of their first Cup start, but rather when they begin to race in the Cup Series full-time. Dale Earnhardt, Rusty Wallace, Ricky Rudd, and Harry Gant are four examples of drivers that began racing regularly on the Cup circuit years after their debuts. In those cases, I use when they began racing full-time, but you're dead-on about Rudd. In fact, he was competitve up to 2005, when he raced for the usually non-competitive Wood Brothers, scoring two second place finishes that year. 572. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.14.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Of course Ricky is the exception! He is the toughest son of a b*tch to ever set wheel on the track. The only injury he missed time for was that shoulder in 2007, and that was only because it was physically impossible for him to drive. Another exception to the rule is Joe Weatherly, who was the best driver in NASCAR when he died in 1964 at 41 years old. 573. cjs3872 posted: 05.14.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by that time, NicoRosbergFan, he would have had no reason to continue at any rate. In fact, he should never have returned, and I believe the only reason he did was to try to help Robert Yates, a long-time friend, but by that time, it was far too late. 574. Eric posted: 05.14.2013 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kubica fan Ireland, I think JGR could have 20 wins in cup this year. I got a few reasons for that. My first reason is Denny needs wins and finish in top in points for getting into the chase and that means the 11 team is not going to experiment. The key for Denny getting in the chase is Kyle staying in the top 10 in points. Denny has Pocono, Loudon, Bristol, and Richmond as places that he has a very good chance to win at. My 2nd reason is the 18 team needs to keep winning to make it stays in the top 10 in points for using the bonus points in the chase and to make sure Denny gets one of the 2 points by wins. The 18 team is currently 10 points away from being out of the top 10 right now and is in their best interest to get their best finish as possible. It is JGR's best interest to keep the 18 team in the top 10, so Denny can take one of the final 2 spots. The fact is a road Course guy can win both races and take one of the two spots in Montoya or Ambrose. My 3rd reason is NASCAR allows organizations to have limited amount of tests now. That is a big deal because the 20 team doesn't have to experiment as much on raceday. The 20 team matter of fact tested at loudon yesterday according to NASCAR race hub on Speed. 575. Eric posted: 05.14.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know cjs3872 isn't going agree with me with the 18 team not experimenting, but the fact is Kyle went through a 3 race streak of finishing 24th or worse before getting 6th at Darlington. Kyle is capable of having those type of streaks of not getting a top 10 again this season. That means the 18 team can't afford to experiment till the last couple weeks of the chase. JGR wants Hamlin to finish in the top 20 in points with multiple wins before the chase. That means Kyle must stay in the top 10 points. The fact is it appears Montoya is starting to have signs of life and that means he's a threat to win at the 2 road courses besides have a chance at Indy to win. That means Montoya's a threat to take a wild card spot for the chase. The last thing Gibbs wants to Kyle taking a Wild Card spot and Denny can't get in the chase because of Kyle taking a wildcard spot. 576. cjs3872 posted: 05.14.2013 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, the #18 team can't afford to experiment with where it is in the points, despite already having two wins. You refer to the fact that Kyle Busch had thre successive finishes of worse than 20th. Let's not forget that in the middle of last season, Kyle had engine failures in three successive races, with at least two of those failures happening under caution. Now how you break a engine under caution is another story, much less do it twice in three races. And also, let's not forget that Kyle missed the Chase last year due to the first tie-breaker for the Wild Card, which is point standings. Jeff Gordon was 12th and Kyle was 13th, and if Denny Hamlin gets hot, which we all know he's capable of, it could very well come down to Denny vs. Kyle for a Chase berth, and quite frankly, despite the polar positions they have in the standings (8th vs. 27th), I like Denny more than Kyle in that situation. The question is, will they be battling for 11th or 12th if both are out of the top ten. That's one reason I suggested that it may take at least three wins to get a Wild Card berth. Right now, I think Kyle is in, based on his two wins, but if Denny Hamlin and Jeff Gordon both get hot, and they're both more than capable, Kyle might be the odd man out, especially with Keselowski struggling, and we know he's almost certain to get a win or two prior to the start of the Chase, and I think Greg Biffle can also turn it around, they can't all be in the top ten. If Aric Almirola and Paul Menard can stay in the top ten, that would also gum up the works for guys like Busch, Hamlin, Gordon, Biffle, Keselowski, and Kevin Harvick. We already know that one win can't be used for the Chase Wild Card (Talladega), and if Montoya and Ambrose live up to their usual on the road curses, that might mean that there would be two more wins that wouldn't be able to be used, which could mess things up even more. Bristl, Atlanta, and Richmond are going to be very interesting, especially if Almirola and Menard can stay in or around the top ten in points, because that would certainly take someone with wins out of the Chase, since I don't think either Almirola or Menard are going to get a win. And of course, we also know that Tony Stewart can also get hot at any time, though that's becoming less likely this year as the season progresses. If he gets hot, that's another potetial contender that won't want to see Almirola and Menard stay up there, because if one or both of them stay up there, they could take a Chase position away from a multiple-race winner that would usually be a Wild Card cinch. 577. 13 posted: 05.14.2013 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski will be in the truck race Friday in the #2 truck 578. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.14.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Yay! So happy Brad, whose been in quite a funk lately, will be devoting some of his time this weekend to getting a Truck win, which would be a huge accomplishment for a Sprint Cup driver, especially the defending champ, instead of putting all focus on getting things rolling like they were at the year's start, using this non points weekend as a kind of reset. Good choice Brad, good choice. 579. Benjamin Lowe posted: 05.14.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I sense some sarcasm there DSFF. 580. Paul posted: 05.14.2013 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) In Brad's defense, he's running the Truck race this weekend in order to make up for the off-week in the Nationwide Series, as well the fact that he won't be running the Nationwide race next weekend either. Apparently Brad is powerless without running in a feeder series in preparation for a Cup race every weekend, and this is the best he could do. I suggested this when I created a hypothetical Nationwide Series driver line-up for next season, but Brad might as well just bring his Truck team up to Nationwide next year. This way whenever Penske puts Logano or even Ryan Blaney (whenever the hell he actually gets to drive the car, since Logano will drive it at Iowa in a few weeks) in the car, Brad can just race his own car whenever the #22 isn't available and not have to play second fiddle to anyone. He gets his damn Nationwide race that he desperately needs and wants in preparation for the Cup race, and Penske is free to put someone else in its 2nd Nationwide car. Everybody wins, except for DSFF, who comes out as the biggest loser in this whole ordeal. 581. Paul posted: 05.14.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Be fair and give Herb a break. In all 5 of his 1956 wins, we don't even have a lap-leader breakdown." It doesn't change the fact that Buck Baker beat Herb Thomas in wins, poles, top fives, top tens, and average finish in 1956. As far as I'm concerned, that's enough to crown Baker as the rightful 1956 champion, even though the points system made the title fight much closer than it should have been. "Also Paul you are from Minnesota right what do you think of the Vikings new stadium, personally I don't like it." I feel like I'm looking at a greenhouse with an orchestra hall on the inside of it. Football stadiums should be built like Lambeau Field or Soldier Field; outside with no retractable roof, played on real grass. Plain and simple. "Of course Ricky is the exception! He is the toughest son of a b*tch to ever set wheel on the track." All statements, positive or negative, about Ricky "The Rooster" Rudd should be closed with this quote. "he didn't really have to perform (see the 1974 Southern 500). But he did perform because of who he is, a competitor." That's why he's "The King" and Jimmie Johnson is the "Emotionless Juggernaut." If Richard Petty were in Johnson's shoes in during all of his titles runs where he had the title all but wrapped up 1/3 of the way through the season, he would have driven his heart out for every remaining race like his life depended on it. He wouldn't have just taken a few races off and treated them like test events just because Dale Inman told him to, not that Inman would ever try to tell his cousin, who happens to arguably be the greatest NASCAR driver ever, what to do. Too bad Chad Knaus doesn't have the same level of respect for Johnson as Inman/Petty. "it may take at least three wins to get a Wild Card berth." I highly doubt that. 582. Talon64 posted: 05.14.2013 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's a major philosophical difference between me and Smith, who bases PEER just on the final result with some adjustment for equipment differences (even if it was a lucky one - so a plate win will almost always make you serviceable, even if you're relevant nowhere else, or not even relevant for most of the race you won)." Does he really judge it just on the final result? Here's a quote from what he wrote today about Denny Hamlin's production: "The No. 11 team as a whole in 2013 isn't in a sterling position and Hamlin's bad runs at Bristol (cut tire after leading 117 laps), Fontana (wrecked on the final lap while battling for the lead) and Talladega (he wasn't even in the car) skew the team-dependent results rather unfairly." Is he simply rating the #11 team so low as far as equipment that a couple of top 5's, 4 top 15 finishes but a 16.6 average finish in 7 starts can give him that high a PEER? Because if so then that raises maybe the biggest flag I've had with how he puts together PEER. 583. cjs3872 posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, how may wins it takes to get a Wild Card berth in the Chase this year depends on two things. One is whether or not Aric Almirola and/or Paul Menard can stay in, or around the top ten in points. If one or both of them can, then that would take a spot (or possibly two) away from those that will win multiple races, becuase neither Almirola or Menard are likely to win any of them, and certainly not more than one. The other reason has to do with whether or not those star drivers on the bubble, or outside the top ten can get hot, and there are quite a number of them. For instance, you have Kevin Harvick, Jeff Gordon, Greg Biffle, Tony Stewart, and Denny Hamlin among them, and you can't count out Joey Logano eithr, based on the team he drives for. If any two of them get hot, it could get very interesting if Almirola and/or Menard stay in the top ten, and currently, Almirola is in the top ten with Menard just outside in 11th (tied for 10th with Harvick, actually). And Brad Keselowski is also continuing to fall closer to the bubble himself, though I think he will win some races in June and July. And we know that Kyle Busch is a tinderbox capable of collapsing at any time, and the combination of all these factors is why Kyle needs to stay in the top ten, because two wins may not be good enough this year without depending on tie-breakers. We already know of one win that can't be used (Talladega), and one or both of the road course events may follow in that regard. One hing's for sure. The last thre races before the Chase, Bristol, Atlanta, and Richmond are going to be very interesting, because some big name drivers with marquee teams are going to miss the Chase this year. What we don't know is what big name drivers and what marquee teams? 584. Eric posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with the final 3 races being interesting. The thing is I see JGR win 1 or 2 of the 3 races before CJS3872 mentioned. I am mentioning that because Kyle Busch himself by Atlanta may still be in danger of not far enough not being in danger of being out of the top 10. Denny has won at all 3 tracks before the chase. The thing is Denny could have 2 wins by than. I am mentioning that because Denny is great at Pocono and that could mean a win or two by him there. Hamlin also runs very good at loudon and JGR has tested there this week with Kenseth. That means the notes are for all 3 times. Indy, Daytona and the road courses the bigger wildcards for deciding the chase. I mention Indy for a reason. While the Brickyard 400 has been won by Jimmie Johnson 4 times, the fact is Jimmie Johnson can't win every Brickyard 400. That is a thing to look at. Daytona is wide open and the fact is anybody win there. The fact is former Bickyard winners Gordon, Harvick Stewart, Menard, and Mcmurray will need a win to have chance for a chase spot. I am mentioning Harvick because I think he needs a 2nd win for making the chase. 585. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 1:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) FOX has signed back on with NASCAR to continue covering the first 13 Cup races from 2015-2022 after their current deal expires after next season. FOX Sports 1, which debuts in August, will take over some of the NASCAR programming that SPEED currently has in place. No programs or televised events were listed, but they will definitely be involved in covering NASCAR in the future, possibly even gaining some Cup races (not sure if live or replay) down the road as well. There's been talk that ESPN may scale back to just covering the 10 Chase races, and that NBC may take over TNT's six races, along with seven of ESPN's races starting in 2015. ESPN has already talked about scaling back its Nationwide coverage as well to just the dates where they are also covering Cup races, so we may see far less of ESPN two years from now, as they could potentially drop from covering 50 NASCAR races a year (33 Nationwide, 17 Cup) to only about 20 races beginning in 2015. 586. 83andJoe posted: 05.15.2013 - 1:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >FOX Sports 1, which debuts in August, will take over some of the NASCAR programming that SPEED currently has in place. Technically, that's a no-change, as SPEED is being rebranded as Fox Sports 1. 587. Eric posted: 05.15.2013 - 1:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) both Michigan races are a wildcard. I am saying that because JGR, Roush, and HMS have won there since 2011. Michigan actually can be an ally for JGR, but it could be Roush and HMS also. A win there by Biffle is going to help his odds getting in, but so would Hamlin, and Kyle. All 3 drivers have won there before. I didn't mention RCR, because they usually don't win there. Kentucky is a wild card also because the fact is there only has been 2 cup races there. I do think JGR is the favorite based on how JGR has performed at mile and a half tracks this year before Charlotte. If Kyle wins at Kentucky, I think that Kyle's chase fate for making it is sealed, but they still can't experiment unless they sealed a spot for the chase before Atlanta. 588. Talon64 posted: 05.15.2013 - 2:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Paul, how may wins it takes to get a Wild Card berth in the Chase this year depends on two things. One is whether or not Aric Almirola and/or Paul Menard can stay in, or around the top ten in points. If one or both of them can, then that would take a spot (or possibly two) away from those that will win multiple races, becuase neither Almirola or Menard are likely to win any of them, and certainly not more than one. The other reason has to do with whether or not those star drivers on the bubble, or outside the top ten can get hot, and there are quite a number of them. For instance, you have Kevin Harvick, Jeff Gordon, Greg Biffle, Tony Stewart, and Denny Hamlin among them, and you can't count out Joey Logano eithr, based on the team he drives for. If any two of them get hot, it could get very interesting if Almirola and/or Menard stay in the top ten, and currently, Almirola is in the top ten with Menard just outside in 11th (tied for 10th with Harvick, actually). And Brad Keselowski is also continuing to fall closer to the bubble himself, though I think he will win some races in June and July. And we know that Kyle Busch is a tinderbox capable of collapsing at any time, and the combination of all these factors is why Kyle needs to stay in the top ten, because two wins may not be good enough this year without depending on tie-breakers." The #18's actually managed to come through in races they've dominated this season. Well in one they did, Fontana was thanks to the fortune of Hamlin and Logano wrecking each other, while not winning at Darlington wasn't their fault by any means. But Texas was one of the few quality non-short track wins they've had over the past few years. One more win over the next 15 races seems like a pretty good bet, but I really don't think they'll need it. SHR's so out to lunch right now that I doubt whether any of their drivers will get a win this season. Unless something like Martinsville last year happens to Newman again or Stewart gets another Daytona night race win, but they certainly don't have the performance to get it done under normal means anytime soon. The combination of the Gen6 car and adding Danica and the 3rd team has thrown them for a loop. And I seriously doubt that both Almirola and Menard, really either of them, are going to be able to hold on to top 10 points positions. They're bound to have more races like this past weekend where they're barely top 20 while Harvick, Gordon and Biffle are going to get their acts together and/or get some luck to eventually leapfrog those two. Then that'll leave some dark horse teams like the #1, #17, #78 and #22 who MIGHT, within the realm of possibility, see one multi-time winner come out of that group. I like Kurt's chances as much as anyone's on the road courses, especially after racing for the win at Sonoma last year with Finch. Ignore Almirola and Menard in the top 14 in points and you've got 12 of your best bets to make the Chase. The only significant threat to any of them is Denny Hamlin, especially since the drivers 20th-26th pose absolutely no threat to keeping Hamlin out of the top 20. So that would make it 13. And that's it. It'd take a miracle run of performance from an outside team or a complete collapse from an inside team (that doesn't have any or just 1 win right now, because really Kyle's 2 wins and JGR's dominance have him pretty safe and any prediction or I guess hope of him missing the Chase is a pipe dream) for anyone to enter the discussion alongside those 13. So there's probably only going to be one really disappointed team come the end of the race at Richmond. 589. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 2:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I like Kurt's chances as much as anyone's on the road courses, especially after racing for the win at Sonoma last year with Finch." Not to mention his complete domination in that event two years ago while driving for Penske. Kurt seems to have really taken to these road courses, especially in recent years (finished 2nd at Watkins Glen in 2010). If he could run in the top ten all race long in a James Finch car and have a shot at winning the thing in the closing laps before the rear end went out, I'd say his chances of doing the same in a Furniture Row/RCR supported car are very good. He's my pick to win at Sonoma this year. "And I seriously doubt that both Almirola and Menard, really either of them, are going to be able to hold on to top 10 points positions." In my points system, which is similar to the Latford system, but with different points increments throughout the whole field (winner, top five, top 10, top 20, top 30, 31st-43rd), Almirola and Menard are 13th and 14th in points right now, while Truex, Gordon, and Biffle are 10th through 12th, respectively. As much as I'm enjoying their impressive points positions right now, they and their lack of top five finishes almost 1/3 of the way through the season don't deserve a Chase spot right now, and especially not in front of Truex, Gordon, and Biffle, who have had solid runs, but poor luck throughout the season so far. I give Almirola a better chance at making the Chase than Menard, but I think it's very likely that they get passed by those other three drivers in due time. Gordon is the only one of those three currently in the Chase, but all three of them should be in it with the way they've been running. 590. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Almirola may Jeremy Mayfield his into and through the Chase. He has some races that play into his favor coming up: he has Kentucky, Charlotte, Dover, Bristol, Richmond, Michigan, Atlanta, and Daytona. If he can run in the top-10 in those races, they will average with his poor performance at the flat tracks and road courses to give him an average finish around 13th-15th, which right now is Chase material. Menard's chances are better though because the tracks that are coming up are his cup of tea. Here are my 12 Chase (not title) favorites after Darlington: Johnson, Edwards, Kenseth, Earnhardt, Bowyer, Kahne, Keselowski, Ky. Busch, Harvick, Biffle, Gordon, McMurray Dark horses: Almirola, Menard, Truex, Ku. Busch, Hamlin Johnson-Busch on my list are locks. Harvick could win anywhere in that span for a wild card guarantee; Gordon WILL win this year before the Chase to be in the top-10; McMurray rebounded Saturday night, and when he's rebounding from a lap down to finish in the top-20, you're screwed because that means the top-5s are coming soon. Biffle will likely win, at Dover or Michigan. Truex needs consistency; Kurt needs a win, and Hamlin needs at least 3 wins. 591. Anonymous posted: 05.15.2013 - 8:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I said it before darlington and I will say it again Hamlin makes the chase 592. 83andJoe posted: 05.15.2013 - 8:42 am Rate this comment: (5) (0) And if Hamlin makes the chase maybe it'll be realised just how stupid an idea it is and it'll be given the boot... Hey, a guy can dream. 593. cjs3872 posted: 05.15.2013 - 9:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But NicoRosbergFan, I think for anyone to make sure of being in the Chase, like Gordon, Biffle, Harvick, Kyle Busch, and obviously Hamlin, they may need to win three times, because I'm not sure any of them are sure to be in the top ten, and I think Brad Keselowski's name can also be included on that list. Because of the drivers and teams outside the top ten, two wins may not be sufficient due to tie-breakers. And throw guys like Kurt Busch out, because he has no chance to get into the Chase because, while he may get one win on a road course (I don't think he will), that's not going to cut it this year, and two may not even be enough for someone below 12th-15th in points. That's why I don't give Martin Truex, Jr. much of a shot, because he's proven he can't finish off a race. And I'm not sure Gordon doesn't fall into that 12th-15th place category because, while he's had some good runs, he's had some dreadful ones, and that won't be good enough to get in the top ten unless everyone in front of him falls back to him. The same is true of Kevin Harvick, Greg Biffle, and even Brad Keselowski, if he doesn't get his act together. And I don;t think Kurt Buch, Joey Logano, or either of the Earnhardt-Ganassi drivers have much of a cance, either this year because of he fact that definately two, and quite possibly three wins will be needed to get in. In other years, I'd give them a good chance, but not this year, due mostly to what happened to Denny Hamlin and the good performances of Aric Almirola and Paul Menard. Hamlin, Almirola, and Menard hold the keys to this situation. If Hamlin wins enough to get into the Chase and either Almirola and/or Menard get in via points position, it will take three wins to get the other Wild Card slot. If not, two will probably get the job done. 594. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.15.2013 - 11:05 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff's problems appear to be in the past. When he doesn't have problems (wrecking in qualifying, etc.), he is easily the best Hendrick driver (not car, driver) this year. Jeff gets in no problem. I also think your scenario has way to many "what if"s. 595. David posted: 05.15.2013 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are my standings: 1. Jimmie Johnson - 546 2. Matt Kenseth - 474 (+1) 3. Carl Edwards - 444 (-1) 4. Kyle Busch - 428 (+4) 5. Kasey Kahne - 374 (+1) 6. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 369 (-2) 7. Clint Bowyer - 364 (-2) 8. Brad Keselowski - 339 (-1) 9. Kevin Harvick - 322 (+1) 10. Jeff Gordon - 295 (+2) 11. Martin Truex, Jr. - 286 (+3) 12. Greg Biffle - 284 (+1) 13. Aric Almirola - 264 (-4) 14. Ryan Newman - 251 (+3) 15. Paul Menard - 245 (-4) 16. Kurt Busch - 231 (+2) 17. Jamie McMurray - 227 (-2) 18. Joey Logano - 217 (+1) 19. Mark Martin - 199 (+5) 20. Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. - 197 (-4) 21. Denny Hamlin - 194 (+6) 22. Juan Pablo Montoya - 187 23. Jeff Burton - 184 (-3) 24. Tony Stewart - 176 (-3) 25. David Ragan - 173 (+1) 26. Marcos Ambrose - 163 (-3) 27. David Gilliland - 135 (+4) 28. Danica Patrick - 131 29. Casey Mears - 129 (-4) 30. Bobby Labonte - 113 (-1) Note that in this version, I left out points-ineligible drivers. Otherwise, Regan Smith would have been 30th with 119 points, and Brian Vickers would have been 31st with 114, leaving Labonte 32nd. 596. 13 posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Trevor Bayne will be sponsored by pillow pets in nationwide in 3 races this year starting at Charlotte 597. 13 posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In Brad keselowski's defense he just wants to win 1 truck race to become first father son to do it I think if he won one truck race he probably wouldnt run anymore trucks 598. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Speed skipping All-Star race, will race in Spain" If this Jayski headline doesn't show you just how far this race has fallen, nothing will. I know Scott isn't in the main race and has no chance of making it through, but this used to be one of the absolute can't miss events, even if it was just running really bad in the preliminary (given his team, that is all he could do). Now drivers and teams are just skipping it. David Ragan said that, prior to his Dega win, FRR was considering skipping the event to just focus their resources on the 600. But now they are in the big show (and a guaranteed $200,000) so that made their decision. It is time for a major change to this event, maybe trying out a Wednesday or Thursday prime time event, or maybe just dropping it all together. My personal idea for it? Move it to Atlanta. Now before any of you (I'm looking at you cjs) bring out your famous "historical precedences" saying "they tried that in '86 and it was an attendance bomb scare", first off that was 27 years ago. Secondly, this was back when ATL still had 2 dates (remember those days?) and this one was just 2 months after the Spring race. Worst of all, it was on Mother's Day. That was a big no-no, especially in the South. I was only 2 years old when this happened, my memories of life don't really kick in until the '88 or '89 time frame, but for most of my childhood, there were some pretty big written in stone ways of life down here (and I'm sure in other areas too). Almost everything closed on Sundays, and definitely Sunday mornings. You never did anything except family and religious activities on Easter, and you didn't do anything on Mother's Day except take Mom out to a nice dinner, visit her if you had moved out, and bring your family if you had one for her to see. Things have changed now. Only Chick Fil A closes on Sundays. Darlington's Mother's Day date has been a huge success (I will believe until my dying day Darlington was given this date because the track had been targeted for termination by Brian France, in '04 he gave its second date to Rockingham's mid November date that had trouble attracting fans just one hour north giving him the excuse to dump that date, so he gave its remaining date to Mother's Day weekend which for years had been a Southern graveyard, this was no accident, he wanted it to fail and get rid of that small market for good, no matter how good the racing was or how the history was). Most importantly Atlanta has just the Labor Day date. But if they do this, I'd like to see them move the date. Being just after Darlington, that is too close for races attended by small town Southern folks (even if Atlanta Motor Speedway were actually close to the city of Atlanta, and it isn't, nobody in Atlanta cares about sports, the Braves, the team of the South, can't even sell out playoff games). People talk about the old days of "Southern saturation" but the truth is they were just too close together. Before Brian's "schedule re-alignment" brain storm (which was really just his way of killing off Rockingham and Darlington) we had races in Rockingham, Atlanta, Darlington, Bristol, Martinsville, Talladega, Richmond, and two races at Charlotte in a 3 month stretch. Then they went for the "Northern swing" for the summer and didn't come back South until the last week of August for 3 straight weeks of Bristol, Darlington, and Richmond with another 3 month stretch that included Martinsville, Talladega, Charlotte, Rockingham, and Atlanta. Hell, maybe that race at Dega in late July in the blistering heat and humidity wasn't such a bad idea! (for the record, I don't really consider Daytona in "The South", that area of Florida, and really all of Florida outside of the Panhandle and its very Northern portion, is mostly retired folks, transplants, and vacationers). If we have learned nothing else from mine and cjs' "Day vs Night" argument, it is that going to a race is truly an event, at the very least it is a well planned out and financed all day event, and often an all weekend well planned out and well financed event. Once ticket prices started climbing and the drivers and on track product became less and less likeable, attendance dropped, the economy dropped too hitting us blue collar "middle class" (translation, "not on Medicaid but still living paycheck to paycheck") folks the hardest which is NASCAR's entire fanbase. And since things were clumped really tight together down here, attendance dropped, giving Brian his chance to have a "big market only" schedule that he desperately craved as gave second dates to California, Phoenix, Dallas, and Kansas City while pressing hard to build tracks in NYC and Washington, each of which was fought every step of the way. Meanwhile the big cities quickly lost interest in NASCAR, and now they are stuck. It is long since time to have a major re shuffle of the schedule. This will help across the board. Phoenix and Vegas in back to back weeks is ridiculous and unfair to the West Coast fans, as is having California just a week or two after that. Then look at the stretch we are in now: Richmond, Talladega, Darlington, Charlotte and Charlotte. First off, it is long since time to can Charlotte's second date and to move the All Star race. Give that race (not necessarily date) to Rockingham. Once they rebuild the backstretch grandstands, it truly won't be THAT much of an attendance drop off. Then spread out the dates. Obviously keep Daytona's races where they are, keep Charlotte's ONE race as a 600 miler on Memorial Day, and let's keep Darlington on Mother's Day and Atlanta on Labor Day. They each have a nice thing going, let's just leave it. And give one of Kansas' dates to Iowa. They pack that corn field for their NWide and Truck races, imagine what they would do for Cup (and I use the term "corn field" lovingly, North Wilkesboro was also built in a corn field, and its facility sadly is way past ever being in Cup raceable shape again even if the track itself would be wonderful for it). Also, I agree with cjs that the Brickyard should be moved. Put it in the cha$e (we have to be realistic, that ain't going anywhere). But here is where he will disagree vigorously: I say move Dega's second date back to late July. Yes it will be super hot, but we survived that date and that heat for almost 30 years while drinking tons of beer in the process, we'll be alright. Swap Dover and Richmond's Spring dates, then move Pocono 1 to right after the 600, then have the Spring Richmond race. Spread it out. And totally re-imagine it. I will think this over and give my 36 race schedule soon. 599. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh, and one other thing about this year's All Star Race: the fact they are having to offer ONE MILLION EXTRA DOLLARS to the drivers just so they will actually try hard every lap shows where today's drivers are at. And it is sad. 600. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dalesrfan, the truth is Atlanta All-Star wouldn't draw flies. The track can't even fill their one race and the March race was an attendance nightmare. I love the track but Atlanta is a horrible sports town and the facility itself is a shadow of it's old layout in terms of fan friendliness and efficiency it once had. Charlotte is going to wear out and let's face it, we know Atlanta is going to get paved in a couple of years. Why does Charlotte deserve the All Star race? It's simple, the All-Star race got 132,000 spectators last year, not far off the 140,000 the 600 got a week later. Name me one other track that can get those kind of numbers for a 100 lap race. Don't say Daytona because the Shotoout/Unlimited has only gotten 80,000 most years and peaked at 120,000 in 2005, all way off the attendance of the 500 and even the Nationwide race. If any other track deserves the race it's Richmond, which was second in line to host the second "Winston" before Bruton hogged it. The truth is though despite boring racing in 2011 and sandbagging in 2012 the All-Star event has been a commercial success with large crowds and is the highest rated broadcast on SPEED channel. I say rotate it between Richmond and Charlotte, two major market South-eastern tracks that have proven they can draw crowds. 601. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just don't get the idea behind removing two of three dates from a track that got 140,000, 132,000, and 105,000 to show up to their races last year. Get over the fact that supply and demand is more important than what you think is a 'good racetrack', if most people didn't like Charlotte the numbers would be much worse and there are many other tracks with 2 dates that are far more deserving of losing dates. 602. cjs3872 posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the reason Scott Speed is skipping the Sprint Showdown is because he knows he has no chance to get in the All-Star Race, and the same would have ben true regarding Front Row Motorsports. They're not dummies. They know they would have had no shot against the teams that are in the Showdown, so they're basically saving money and potentially saving a car by not running it. And NicoRosbergFan, I'm not sure I agree regarding Gordon. Saturday night will be a BIG test for Gordon as to whether he can run up front on a fast track that stays fast. If he runs like he did at Texas, where he was the only guy that could have beaten Kyle Busch (sorry, Martin Truex, Jr. fans), then I think he has a real shot at getting into and staying in the top ten, but if he runs like he did at Las Vegas, California, and Kansas, it's going to be a LONG summer for him, so I think the next two weekends will tell the tale for him. And even if he does run well, he seems to be in the HMS car that breaks most often (like the old #25 used to be), so even if he does run well, his car may not make it to the finish, which is another reason why he might have trouble making the Chase, evenif he runs well. But I strongly disagree with you about him being the top HMS driver when he's got a good car. He's not even the top driver in his own shop. Kasey Kahne is, but Gordon's not going to get bullied like Kahne has been getting bullied, something Kyle Busch has figured out, because he'll strike back. 603. Richie61NYfan posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) According to Race Hub last night, Danica's boss, Tony Stewart wasn't too pleased with her so called "driving ability". Imagine that? Seems she got in the way often.He actually threatened to dump her. Took only 11 races. Expect some changes soon. She really is a cancer to every organization. 604. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.15.2013 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As much as it pains me to say it, Rockingham getting a cup race is a pipe dream for the near future. It deserves a Nationwide race and in addition to a cup race that would be highly satisfying for many. The Changes I would make: Darlington Mother's Day Sunday Late Afternoon/evening-night ie Atlanta Kansas Spring removed for Iowa-Iowa swaps places with Dover spring race on schedule Talladega October Moved to August to avoid Alabama Football BUT run under lights on Saturday night. Chicago, Sonoma, Dover date alignments with Dover first race of chase, Sonoma, 3rd race in chase to add road course variety and Chicago moved to June current Sonoma date So what of the October Talladega date? Brickyard 400. Switch with Kansas in chase for better temperatures Texas Spring moves to day again 605. The Final Gear posted: 05.15.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) NASCAR is stating that the all-star vote is closer than ever...I call BS. We all know who is going to win the vote and even though it's our worst nightmare, we've come to accept that BoB is likely going to runaway with this. Even if she doesn't win it, NASCAR is stupid not to rig it. They will just add Danica's vote tally plus all the inactives (Allmendinger, Elliott, Waltrip, etc.) to make her the winner. She's going to embarrass herself though. I'm glad David Ragan won't be the last car running now. FRM and Ragan don't deserve that distinction. 606. Richie61NYfan posted: 05.15.2013 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica will not embarrass herself as it won't be her fault. Only hope is maybe she wrecks herself trying to keep up.It will be almost impossible for her to be lapped. Can't wait to hear her excuse - it's the car. 607. The Long Shot posted: 05.15.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Only hope is maybe she wrecks herself trying to keep up." Pfft. I hope she wrecks out of the freaking Showdown and is declared ineligible for the Fan Vote. What we should do is form a community and have everybody in it spam votes for David Gilliland. (And yes, I know spamming votes is discouraged, but it's not as if nobody's doing it for Danica, right?) 608. The Long Shot posted: 05.15.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Then watch NASCAR announce a new rule that states that only male drivers must have their cars in race-able condition to be eligible for the Fan Vote. 609. 83andJoe posted: 05.15.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I fully agree that Gilliland is a worthy candidate. Get out the vote! Vote early and often! As for Talladega, I'd fully support moving the second 'Dega race back to July or August - but the thing is, it was moved to October not so much because of the heat, but because of the thunderstorms, as I recall. I would suspect this is one reason the Firecracker 400 always started so early as well - afternoon thunderstorms are a way of life across the South (I'm speaking geographically, not culturally, DSFF =P ). 610. The Sound posted: 05.15.2013 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would love if Tony becomes frustrated with Danica and dumps her after this year. I realize he would be giving up money, but I would like to think that performance is more important to him. And Danica's team is an albatross. 611. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the reason Scott Speed is skipping the Sprint Showdown is because he knows he has no chance to get in the All-Star Race, and the same would have been true regarding Front Row Motorsports. They're not dummies." That would make sense, except for the fact that Leavine Family Racing (Scott Speed's team) is still participating in the Sprint Showdown, with Michael McDowell driving the car. Scott Speed probably realized that it wouldn't be worth his time to show up just to run around at the back and/or start-and-park, so he decided to compete in a race in Spain instead. I say good for him. Also, Front Row Motorsports has entered David Gilliland in the Sprint Showdown as well, along with having David Ragan in the All-Star Race. Josh Wise wasn't entered, but they still have a car in the Showdown that likely won't make the All-Star Race. "But I strongly disagree with you about him being the top HMS driver when he's got a good car. He's not even the top driver in his own shop. Kasey Kahne is" Nico said that Jeff Gordon is the BEST driver at HMS, not the TOP driver. He's the best driver because he's the most talented, but he's not the top driver because he's not running as well as his teammates. I believe that's what Nico was trying to say. "I also think your scenario has way to many "what if"s." Some people like to worry about everything. "I think for anyone to make sure of being in the Chase, like Gordon, Biffle, Harvick, Kyle Busch, and obviously Hamlin, they may need to win three times, because I'm not sure any of them are sure to be in the top ten" Well then who will take their place in the top ten?? Harvick and Kyle are already in the top ten, and Gordon and Biffle are knocking on the door. And who will replace them in the top ten? Menard and Truex? Kurt and Jamie Mac? Stenhouse and Newman? And there are too many "what ifs" involved that statement. What if Kyle has three straight engine failures once again? What if Harvick and Burton swap teams since Harvick is the "lame duck" RCR driver? What if Gordon has six finishes of 24th or worse in the next seven races? What if Biffle hits the wall too many times while driving hard, like you previously claimed he does? The likely scenario is that three of those drivers finish in the top ten in points (four if Brad continues to fall in the points), and the other two could potentially make the Chase as a wildcard. And which of the drivers not in the top ten in points are likely to win any races, let alone two or three? Menard isn't gonna win a race. Gordon and Biffle are the most likely to make the top ten and/or win a race or two before the Chase (Four of the next five races, Dover, Pocono, Michigan, and Sonoma are their "cups of tea."). Truex probably won't win a race either just because he seems allergic to victory lane. Jamie Mac's team isn't good enough to run top five consistently, but he could still pull off a road course or Daytona night upset. Stenhouse has less top tens than David Ragan. Newman is driving for a terrible team and is only 17th in points because he's overachieved this season. Kurt could pull off a win or two, but his team might not be good enough for any wins. Pocono is Logano's only real shot at victory. Burton and Stewart will likely be competitive at Daytona, and that's pretty much it. Denny Hamlin could win three races, or he could falter and not even make the top 20 in points, thus negating any wins he may pick up. I think you're over-exaggerating the need for three wins for a Chase berth by a wildcard team, because it's very likely that one win will do the trick for both wildcard spots. 612. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) That's it, I'm voting for David Gilliland. Sorry Bobby Labonte, but I've decided to join the Revolution. 613. cjs3872 posted: 05.15.2013 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TeamPlayersBlue, it would be a bad idea for them to move the race at Darlington to Mother's Day. The way it's set now, running the race on Saturday night not only gives the drivers a rare Sunday off, but it also alows for Sunday to be a rain date, if it rains out on Saturday, which has already happened once. That's one thing about the Saturday night races that just about everyone overlooks. If the race is run on Saturday night, it gives the drivers and teams a rare Sunday off, and with it, an extra day to prepare for the next race, and if it rains, then they can use Sunday as a rain date, and nothing would be lost. A number of the races that been scheduled for Saturday nights have been affected by rain, and that would allow the race to be run on Sunday. In fact, that's the very reason why the Brickyard 400 was originally slated to run on Saturday. NASCAR and IMS officials know how volatile the weather can be in Indianapolis, so they scheduled the race for Saturday, knowing they had Sunday in their pockets as a built-in make-up date, if needed, which it never was. And Paul, that set of scenarios I've mentioned in which three wins may be needed to make the Chase only exists if Aric Almirola and/or Paul Menard make the top ten in points and Denny Hamlin wins at least three races, but I think that's very doable this year on both counts, and if it does, you may see drivers with two wins miss the Chase this year. Frankly, I do see Hamlin winning at least three times between now and Richmond, and I do see a possibility of Aric Almirola staying in he top ten for a while, though I'm not sure he'll make it in the end, and the same goes for Paul Menard. But also, if Kyle Busch falls out of the top ten, he already has two wins, and could have four or five and still not be in the top ten in points, because he's so hit-and-miss, that would likely take up one of the Wild Card berths. That's why I think guys like Jeff Gordon, Kevin Harvick, Greg Biffle, and Brad Keselowski may need to win three times if they're not in the top ten. I just don't think two will automatically get you in this year. I think, the way it looks now, two will be in a tie-breaker situation, which then would go to point standings, and I actually like Harvick and Keselowski more than I do Gordon and Biffle in a tie-breaking scenario, because Biffle's hit-and-miss a little too much and Gordon's cars seem to break more than they should when he's up front, and that will cost him points that he may not be able to make up, even by winning. And also, think of this. Had Kyle Busch crashed as a result of his cut tire, instead of finishing sixth, he would have been about 30th-34th. Had that occurred, Kyle would be 14th in the points now, instead of eighth, and Paul Menard would be in the top ten with Almirola, with the nearly 30 points Kyle would have lost, and if he had pitted, he would have finished about 20th, and been outside the current top 10 in 11th place. That's how volatile the points are from sixth (Kasey Kahne/Brad Keselowski) through 15th (Jamie McMurray) right now. But except for Denny Hamlin, nobody lower than 15th has any realistic chance at the Chase. 614. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.15.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, Paul, you got the point. Given equal cars, Jeff would lap his teammates twice over a full race distance. I agree. Keep the All-Star in Charlotte. Move Dega to July/August where Pocono is, move Bristol to Dega's October date, move New Hampshire to Bristol's date, and make Indy the first Chase race. There's one hitch. You can't race on Saturday because of the Irish, Hoosiers, and Boilermakers, and you can't race on Sunday because of the Colts. Solution? Move Indy's race to where Watkins Glen is, and put Watkins Glen in the Chase. 615. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.15.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are two things we need to quit worrying about when thinking about the schedule. One is weather. It is going to happen no matter what and there is no way of truly predicting it. The other is the NFL. It ain't going nowhere and is unavoidable unless we want to shorten the schedule and end it much earlier (a great idea IMO, but the fact is we can't go backwards). 616. Jim Davis posted: 05.15.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is unreal: "Cobb's transporter stolen from race shop: On Saturday, May 11, 2013, at around 3:00 AM, the Jennifer Jo Cobb Racing team transporter was stolen from the team's race shop in Mooresville, N.C. The value with the contents included is well over $250,000. Rowan County Sheriff's Department and Detective Carl Dangerfield is pursuing leads and has issued arrest warrants in connection with this case. "It is my sole concern to get the transporter back so that we can make Friday night's Camping World Truck Series race at the Charlotte Motor Speedway," said Cobb. "We are working with other teams right now to borrow the necessary items in the event our hauler and its contents are not returned. We are pleased with the diligent work that the Rowan County Sheriff's Department has shown in solving this crime." Any information on the whereabouts of the stolen property can be directed to the lead investigator, Detective Carl Dangerfield 704-216-8711. (Jennifer Jo Cobb Racing PR)(5-15-2013) UPDATE: The Rowan County Sheriff's Office said it has issued warrants for the arrest of Mike Joseph Harmon and Sheila Rae Rice for felony larceny and breaking and entering in connection with the case. It values the hauler and contents at $279,000. Harmon, a NASCAR driver and team owner primarily in the Nationwide Series, has worked with Cobb in the past. Harmon used to be the team manager for Cobb's Nationwide team.(Sporting News)(5-15-2013)" 617. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here's another great piece that SPEED aired a week ago on Dave Marcis. He may be retired from oval racing, but he's still working as hard as ever working on cars and racing them on long drag strips and trying to set land speed records (driving his old #71 Winston Cup car at that), and still wearing the same old Goodyear hat as well. He even talks about his friendship with Dale Earnhardt and how they became friends shortly after Marcis spun Dale out at Martinsville 1980 after Dale had been using him up a bit on the race track. Really cool piece about the 72-year old independent driver from Wausau, Wisconsin. http://www.speedtv.com/programs/nascar-race-hub/video-clips/nascar-race-hub-dave-marcis-2013-2364802907001/1 618. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR Race Hub did a neat little piece on the infamous "T-Rex" car that Jeff Gordon won with in the 1997 All-Star Race, with Matt Clark interviewing Ray Evernham about how the car came about. Here's the link in case anybody is interested: http://www.speedtv.com/programs/nascar-race-hub/video-clips/nascar-race-hub-evernham-on-t-rex-2384129560001/1 Here are my predictions as to who will qualify for the All-Star Race on Saturday night: - Sprint Showdown winner: Aric Almirola (He won the pole at Charlotte last year, and I think this is where he wins his first Cup race.) - Sprint Showdown runner-up: Martin Truex, Jr. - Fan vote: Danica Patrick. If Danica crashes, then either Bobby Labonte or David Gilliland. 619. Sky Warrior posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) So, is everyone excited for the 2013 Jimmie Keselowsketh Sandbagging Challenge this weekend? 620. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sky Warrior, take 5 minutes of your time, actually read the format for this year, and then tell me whether or not anybody can sandbag to win the race like last year. Thanks. 621. Sky Warrior posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They'll still do it. NASCAR didn't actually do anything that will help, just added extra money and change the running order before the pit stops. I don't doubt the punk teams like the first 3 segment winners from last year won't sandbag the first 2 segments and then go out and win the last 2, putting them about midpack depending on pitstops. If NASCAR actually wanted them to race, get rid of the repositioning entirely like every other race. This event has been a joke for years and it will only marginally improve this year, and that's if you don't count them eliminating the pit crew challenge 622. 83andJoe posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) ...Mike Harmon stole Jennifer Jo Cobb's rig? When did I step into the Twilight Zone? 623. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank goodness Mike Harmon stole the transporter. Police won't have to go very far before they see it parked off to the side of the road. ;) (Sorry, I couldn't resist!) I'll hold off on commenting anymore on this issue until further details are released, but I agree with you guys. This is just bizarre! 624. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Let's hope there is a drivers bounty on BoB in the Showdown. Juan Pablo Montoya take her a$$ out and you will be the most loved driver of 2013 of traditional Nascar fans. 625. Jarrett88fan posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On the Harmon-Cobb story, the detective's last name is Dangerfield like Rodney Dangerfield and the incident seems pulled from a Rodney Dangerfield comedy. Loopy. 626. David posted: 05.15.2013 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Police won't have to go very far before they see it parked off to the side of the road." Or crashed into an improperly closed gate. 627. ch posted: 05.15.2013 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds to me like a disagreement over payments or compensation. This would not the first time something had to be stolen from JJC in order to get her to pay. At Daytona this winter, Dave Novak (currently part owner and manager of Mike Harmon's team) repossessed a van from her that was apparently his, and JJC, at first, said that he stole it. Who knows though? I'm sure we'll find out. 628. joey2448 posted: 05.15.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Rimshot!* to posts 623 and 626... But yes, that is an unexpected development. Wow. 629. joey2448 posted: 05.15.2013 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh yeah, another thing. Check this out: "Speeding on pit road is now legal -- at least in qualifying for Saturday's Sprint All-Star race. In an attempt to spice up qualifying, pit road speeds that are strictly enforced in races as a safety measure will be lifted for Friday night's three-lap trip around Charlotte Motor Speedway that includes a mandatory four-time stop. Other cars will not be on pit road during All-Star qualifying, and crew members will not be allowed to come over the wall until the car is stopped, which is not the case in a race.(ESPN)(5-15-2013)" cjs3872 ought to be all over this. 630. The Final Gear posted: 05.15.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I want the elimination format back for the All-Star race. It actually made people race to stay alive. I realize that crashes happen but if we are going to have 4 segments, then slowly whittle the field away. Have nothing happen in the first segment and then eliminate a handful of drivers. The last segment should have around 10 guys left. 631. cjs3872 posted: 05.15.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why did you single me out, joey2448? But actually, in regards to the pitting rules for qualifying, they had done that before. In fact, if I remember right, the reason Jeff Gordon and the T-Rex car had to start last among the exempt cars in the All-Star Race in 1997 was because he overshot his pit due to going too fast, not being used to flying down pit road like the other stars he was racing against, who had been doing that for years prior to the adaptation of a pit road speed limit in 1991, and knew how fast they could come down pit road and stop where they were supposed to, which gave them a big advantage over Gordon in qualifying, and it showed. Now as long as NASCAR sticks to it's guns and prohibits any crew member from going over the wall prior to the car stopping, it should be okay, but if they allow crewmen to ease over the pit wall prior to the car stopping, it could be a nightmare. Also, and this is for any poster, I've made a list of who I believe to be the 33 greatest drivers in the history of the Indianapolis 500 that I will be posting shortly. 632. murb posted: 05.15.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It really does seem pretty thoughtless to get rid of pit road speeds for qualifying like that. Yeah, they aren't gonna have other cars on pit road throughout the session, but there are still people behind the pit wall that could be easily injured or killed if a speeding car was to lose control. It just goes to show that the idiots running the sport are just that. Idiots. 633. David posted: 05.15.2013 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, NASCAR did say that crew members would not be permitted to go over the pit wall until the car came to a complete stop. 634. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.15.2013 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy Crap! You guys were serious! Mike Harmon stole JJC's transporter. That has to be the most bizarrer headline in a long long time. You couldn't make something that random up! 635. The Final Gear posted: 05.15.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Harmon is trying to do us (race fans) all a favor and make sure that JJC doesn't get to race. I won't shed a tear if she's unable to make the trip. 636. Jim Davis posted: 05.15.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Mike Harmon stole JJC's transporter." As most have speculated, this is likely a financial dispute that Harmon tried to settle by taking matters into his own hands by repossession. I doubt anyone will be doing time for this. 637. The Long Shot posted: 05.15.2013 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Harmon has denied the accusations on Twitter: "I want it known that I have never stolen so much as a piece of bubble gum in my life. I did not take JJC hauler, there is no video of me anywhere near her shop. Today she was the windshield & I was the bug, but when we get in FEDERAL court in a couple wks there's a boulder coming" Forget the Gilliland Revolution: #FREEMIKEHARMON! 638. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.15.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Forget the Gilliland Revolution: #INCARCERATEMIKEHARMON! 639. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Harmon might get some press for this, as a reporter named Diane Gallagher, who works for a local NBC station in Charlotte, has asked to do an interview with Harmon in order to give him a chance to clear his name. As far as stories involving two owner/drivers who basically serve as field fillers in their respective series go, this has to be the most intriguing one. Them's fightin' words, Nico! 640. Paul posted: 05.15.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For those of you in the Charlotte area (and those who like me watch these kinds of videos online), WBTV Channel 3 will be airing a story on the Harmon/Cobb issue tonight at 11:00 PM ET. 641. Talon64 posted: 05.15.2013 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) With regards to Speed "racing in Spain", he's trying to win another gold in X Games Rallycross. And that's worth his time much more than running the Showdown imo and I'm sure Leavine understands that as well. Also I'm pretty sure Harmon's hiding JJC's transporter in his stomach. 642. The Long Shot posted: 05.16.2013 - 6:41 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here's the video of Harmon's interview: http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/22263051/nascar-driver-mike-harmon-steal-jennifer-jo-cobb-race-trailer-theft 643. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.16.2013 - 7:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really don't know why I got so far thumbs downed. While JJC has been slow and such in the past, one thing she has not been is a liar. Regardless, in the South (I did live in North Carolina once) we call it vigilante justice, right DSFF! 644. The Final Gear posted: 05.16.2013 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Fan Vote winner doesn't have to be on lead lap this year either. It's to make sure Danica gets in the all-star race. 645. AveryNH posted: 05.16.2013 - 10:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other, non Danica, Non Mike Harmon theft news, Trevor Bayne and Kurt Busch both broke 210 MPH while testing at MIS. Yikes!!! 646. David posted: 05.16.2013 - 10:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Fan Vote winner doesn't have to be on lead lap this year either. It's to make sure Danica gets in the all-star race." I am not completely convinced fake debris cautions are real, and I believe this. 647. cjs3872 posted: 05.16.2013 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AveryNH, don't read too much into Bayne and Kurt Busch hitting 210 MPH at Michigan. Those were reported top straightaway speeds. The actual lap speeds were in the mid-190s, 6-8 MPH slower than the pole for the June race last year. Remember that at the IMS test earlier this month, Bayne said that he was doing over 210 MPH down the straightaway. Even so, those was the straightaway speeds that were being turned in when Johnny Rutherford nearly went 200 in 1973 at Indy to take the pole that year (his fastest qualifying lap was 199.071 MPH). 648. Sean posted: 05.16.2013 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) [Comment deleted at the poster's request.] 649. Sean posted: 05.16.2013 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) [Comment deleted at the poster's request.] 650. David posted: 05.16.2013 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Figures after I write that long-winded criticism of David Smith, he'd write his best column of the year" He stepped up his game. I thought today's article was great. It is free, so anyone here can read it. 651. cjs3872 posted: 05.16.2013 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, the problem with that idea is that you don't know while you're on pit road what position you're in. Actually, Montoya's being the first one out might well have won him that race if three drivers hadn't stayed out, and that's something that's impossible to calculate from the pits, especially from inside the car. While I agree that they should get rid of the double-file restarts as it's done now, especially in the last 10-20% of the race, what happened there in terms of cars staying out could have happened anywhere at any time. How this affects other portions of the race, such as where lapped cars would line up and what would happen if lead lap cars were to pit and lapped cars didn't would be something nobody really knows. If they went to single-file restarts, the leaders would hit traffic much sooner simply because of how much farther behind on the track the tail end of the field would be, so it would affect the shorter tracks more than it would the bigger tracks, but I've said for some time they need to get rid of the double-file restarts because it gives some drivers an unfair advantage and others an unfair disadvantage. The biggest case I can remember was a Bristol a few years ago when it was better to be sixth than third on a late restart, which was what allowed Jimmie Johnson to win that race over Kurt Busch, who had a faster car all day, but was stuck in the wrong line, despite starting in front of Johnson by three positions. And conversely, on other tracks it's better to be fifth than second because of the dominance of the inside line on a restart. Just get rid of the double-file restart, because it benefits some and punishes others in an unfair manner. 652. Anonymous posted: 05.16.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Montoya would have won at Richmond had he beaten Tony Stewart off pit road. Stewart took two tires and beat him by less than a foot coming off pit road, then proceeded to be a moving chicane for the final two laps and prevented Montoya from restarting in the preferred lane. NASCAR should do one of two things: Either get rid of the double-file restarts, or give drivers the option of choosing which lane they restart in, similar to what various short track and legends car racing series do across the country. I would prefer if they would just drop the gimmick altogether, but at the very least they should give drivers an option on where they want to start, otherwise we'll have a scenario like Richmond where the 7th place car wins while the 6th place car finishes 4th due to the lanes (and tire strategies) that they restarted in. 653. Paul posted: 05.16.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #652 was me. 654. Paul posted: 05.16.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haha, I just found out that not only will Mike Harmon be in the Truck Series race this weekend (replacing Chris Fontaine in the #84 truck), but his garage stall is right next to Jennifer Jo Cobb's. Awkward! Harmon said that he has no intention of speaking to or retaliating against Cobb this weekend, but Cobb has apparently admitted being scared of having her stall right next to Harmon's. Damn, it's a shame they aren't big name drivers, otherwise all the camera crews would be all over this soap opera. 655. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.16.2013 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't how to say this... Dick Trickle took his own life today. :( May his family find comfort at this time. 656. joey2448 posted: 05.16.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very sad and shocking news. Dick Trickle has apparently died today of a self-inflicted gunshot wound. Just horrible news. 657. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.16.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why would a happy go lucky guy like him do this? 658. Sean posted: 05.16.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was just fired by Motorsports Analytics. I don't blame David Smith and I agree with his decision. I was obnoxious and unprofessional to him and I feel like even more of a jerk considering how kindly he took it. However, I asked Alan to remove all my earlier comments criticizing him, which will make this thread more unreadable but it seems like the decent thing to do, since my initial posts reflected poorly on him, poorly on me, and poorly on this site (since Smith is sponsoring it). I'm the Kyle Busch of the motorsports press, and I need to learn to grow up before I write again... And it sucks about Dick Trickle. 659. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.16.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry about that Sean. 660. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.16.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That just took the wind right out of my sails. Dick Trickle is was racing should be about: in it for the pure love of it. I can only inagine what would have happened to him had he got the same breaks at the same age as fellow Mid Western legends that he mentored like Rusty and Mark. Considering what he did in NASCAR while never even sniffing top flight equipment, getting started there well past his racing prime, it would have been fun to see. It is always tough to see somebody take their own life. You can't help but wonder where their mind is at when they decide that, how terrible it must be to be in such a dark place. Knowing a nice guy like that was there, that just hurts. Guess I just need to picture him cruising up to heaven, lighting up a cigarette on the way. That ESPN clip of him will live in infamy, makes me smile every time. A bit of a shame that will be his legacy (along with his name of course) instead of the untold number of races he won on the beaten up old Mid Western short tracks, but that was Dick Trickle, a normal guy doing normal things in an abnormal situation. I guess, looking at the positive, he was the last of a kind, a kind we loved. 661. Paul posted: 05.16.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RIP Dick Trickle, a true legendary racer. His NASCAR career might not reflect it, as he only one 11 total races in 491 NASCAR starts (6 All-American Challenge wins, 2 Busch wins, 2 Southwest Tour wins, 1 non-points Cup win), but he was one of the all-time greats. Although it is unofficial, as most short track series (especially from decades ago) didn't keep track of stats very well, Trickle competed in more than 2,200 races in over 40 years of racing, including winning around 1,000 races and being billed as the winningest short track driver in history. He also won nine professional racing championships in his career, including seven ARTGO titles and two ASA titles between 1979 and 1987. Of course, he was arguably just as well-known in the NASCAR world for his personality and name as he was for his great racing ability. Back in the 1990s, ESPN anchors Dan Patrick and Keith Olbermann often made a point to mention Trickle in their NASCAR race recap segments, even humorously referring to him as "Mr. Trickle" or "The Man." And of course, who could forget when the in-car camera showed him smoking during a caution period at the 1990 Winston 500, via drilling holes into his helmet; a practice that he did on a regular basis in his racing career. One of my favorite NASCAR commercials was a 1997 NAPA Auto Parts commercial, which featured Trickle promoting the season finale NAPA 500 race at Atlanta, saying that there would be a contest held where a fan who correctly predicted the race winner would win $100,000. Living up to his epic name, at one point in the commercial Trickle said (in reference to who would win the race), "Here's a tip...it's gonna be me." Haha! And immediately following that, a graphic came up on the screen that read "Dick is 0 for 243 in Cup races." He was a legendary driver, but he didn't have a big ego and didn't mind poking fun at his lack of success at the Cup level. You've gotta love that. I'm not sure what was going on with his life or if he had any health issues recently that led to him taking his own life, but either way it saddens me that a true racing legend and all-around great guy has left us under these circumstances. There will never be another Dick Trickle in the world of racing. Godspeed, Dick Trickle! You will be forever missed. 662. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.16.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I already posted that YouTube clip from Dega in 1990 to my Facebook. Racing just needs more people like Dick. Definitely not saying we need more smokers, that leads to tons of health issues I have to treat every time I go to work. Even in 1990, 23 years ago, they were referring to it as a "bad habit" (in the Winston 500 in the Winston Cup Series lol). Just more normal guys doing normal things. 663. cjs3872 posted: 05.16.2013 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul (#652-653), Tony Stewart did not beat Montoya off pit road at Richmond. Montoya beat Stewart off pit road at Richmond, which was why he lined up fourth, second row outside. The first three cars (Burton, McMurray, and Almendinger) did not pit, and Montoya was the first off pit road, thus he lined up fourth, and got stuck behind his teammate, which was how Harvick, Bowyer, and Logano got by him. They started 7th, 9th, and 11th respectively. I agree that they should do away with the double-file restarts. I'll go a step furter. They should never have implemented them in the first place, but felt pressured to do so by the fans, most of whom don't really know what they're talking about. The double-file restarts are good for the special races, such as the Shootout, this weekend's All-Star Race, and even the qualifying races at Daytona, but leave them out of the points races. For example, how many times have we seen Jeff Gordon get caught out at Martinsville because he started on the outside? And that's just one example. And about the passing of Dick Trickle. It's always sad to see someone go, especially the way he apparently did. It's almost as if he was told he had a termial illness, and took his own life instead of going through the inevitable suffering. That's exactly what Sid Collins did when he learned he had gotten Lou Gehrig's Disease (a.k.a. A.L.S.) in 1977, shortly before the activities at Indy began that month, and with all the magical things that happened that month, one must wonder if Collins graced Indy one last time from above. But back to Trickle. One thing that gained him a lot of notoriety was his performances at Atlanta in the spring race in both 1989 and 1992, the latter race he could easily have won if things had gone his way, as he ran in the top three almost all day, though he never led that race at any time. The reason I say that was thatboth of those races were televised by ABC, and were among only four races broadcast on network TV those years, five if you count the All-Star Race from 1987-'91. And let's not forget that the only time Trickle ever drove a car into a victory lane in a Cup weekend was at the All-Star Race in 1990, when he beat Rob Moroso by inches in the Winston Open, the atter half of which was televised live by ABC, so his performances on some of the rare times NASCAR was on network television in the late 80s and early 90s gained him a lot of notoriety. 664. murb posted: 05.16.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not gonna lie, I'm bumming super, super, super hard right now. 665. David posted: 05.16.2013 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dick Trickle dead?? He was the greatest driver to come out of the Midwest. This is awful. 666. Paul posted: 05.16.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) No cjs, Montoya lined up 6th on the final restart at Richmond. The first three cars didn't pit (Burton, McMurray, Allmendinger), and the next two cars took two tires (Edwards, Stewart). Montoya lined up 6th on the outside lane (the first car that took four tires), and would have won had he beaten Stewart off pit road and restarted on the inside lane. 667. David posted: 05.16.2013 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They should never have implemented them in the first place, but felt pressured to do so by the fans, most of whom don't really know what they're talking about." Truer words were never spoken. 668. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.16.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) I played my NASCAR '99 N64 game in honor of the master and brought that 90 car to victory at Richmond. 669. Schroeder51 posted: 05.16.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dick Trickle died...? Man, that sucks. I always liked Trickle when I was little and always wanted to see him do really well. That's just a real shame hearing that. I feel tempted to dig out my old NASCAR Racing 1999 Edition game just to race against him in the Busch Series... 670. JG24FanForever posted: 05.16.2013 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) God love Dick Trickle. 671. cjs3872 posted: 05.16.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks for correcting me, Paul. The irony was that he was going to start on the outside, regardless of whether or not he took two or four tires. By taking four, he came out third, which put him sixth on the restart, but had he taken two, he would have won the race out of the pits because of his positioning prior to the pit stop, which would have put him fourth, and still on the outside, so he was stuck either way. But the overriding thing was that they could not control the fact that three cars stayed out, putting whoever won the race out of the pits on the outside lane for that restart, so whoever won the race out of the pits was really going to lose out to whoever was second out of the pits (talk about something not being fair at all), and it would have worked out that way had Tony not gotten in a jam-up in turn four. Again, that's something completely out of the control of those that pit. 672. The Long Shot posted: 05.16.2013 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) What an incredibly sad day. R.I.P. Dick Trickle. You may have had the most unfortunate name in NASCAR history, but we cheered you all the more for it. 673. JG24FanForever posted: 05.16.2013 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) just watch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9fB1IcTD48 674. The Long Shot posted: 05.16.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And by the way, for those interested, Brock Beard (the same man who wrote the blog about Kurt Busch's Neil Bonnett Tribute paint scheme back at Talladega) has written a tribute to Trickle. Take a look: http://brockbeard.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-tribute-to-dick-trickle-1941-2013.html 675. AveryNH posted: 05.16.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Man I'm bummed too now. Dick Trickle is just the biggest sentimental favorite of mine. Not too long ago NASCAR randomly came up in my science class and my teacher brought his name up, obviously for laughs, and referenced how they'd mention him on sportscenter a lot. Nonetheless I appreciated the sheer mention of his name and that now the kids in my class (who laugh at the mention of nascar) now at least knew who he was. Back when we were listing off die casts a few weeks ago, I neglected to mention my ownership of his 1998 Heilig-Meyers #90. Now I feel inclined to track down a Schneider National #64 Chevy that I've always longed for but could never find. These videos are great too. That NAPA ad is one of my faves. Also the image of him lighting up a cig under yellow is classic. It really just adds to his lore. Quite a sad day indeed for us race fans. RIP Dick Trickle. 676. murb posted: 05.16.2013 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've had a few hours to digest this news, and I'm still just as shocked as when I found out. It's unbelievable to me that he would kill himself like that. I guess there must have been a lot of stuff about him that we didn't know about. All I can say is how much I feel for his family right now, and how much I appreciate all the memories he gave me as a little kid. It's sort of ironic that we are discussing this on the Darlington race page, because my all time favorite Trickle memory is when he outdueled Dale Jr to win the Busch race at Darlington in 1998. What a loss. I once again echo my fellow posters. RIP, Dick. 677. Dave#38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 05.16.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The price gougers on Ebay have already started jacking up the prices of Dick Trickle autographs. I have people that do that. I have two of his autographs, but I would never think of selling one just to profit off of this unfortunate situation. As far as I'm concerned, they both just became priceless and they will never leave my collection. 678. Dave#38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 05.16.2013 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Dick had a quote from a few years ago that applies now more than ever, "When I'm gone I'll be a legend, right now I'm just very good at what I do". 679. David posted: 05.16.2013 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sadly, he is a legend I never got to meet. 680. The Long Shot posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) With all due respect to Dick Trickle and his family, to go back to another story from the day, I am extremely concerned about the top speeds that these cars are getting to. The fact that these cars get up to well over 200 mph on some of these tracks is, frankly, frightening to me. Tony Stewart's quote at the end of the 2006 Budweiser Shootout represents my views perfectly: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCNRox9iw24 (Skip to 10:18 of the video) 681. AveryNH posted: 05.17.2013 - 10:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony's comments there were very hypocritical considering what he did a week later in the 500 to Matt Kenseth. Junior was literally interviewed right after him and echoed some of what he said about the danger factor, but said it was a necessary evil and really just talked about how much fun it was. Although I agree it'll be interesting to watch the speeds throughout the season. Back to Mr. Trickle's untimely passing, I really hope Nascar has some sort of special remembrance either before tonight's truck race, or preferably before tomorrows All-star race. Here's Dick Trickle's only Winston Cup win, albeit an exhibition, The 1990 Winston Open: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dInK_1SZS0I 682. The Long Shot posted: 05.17.2013 - 11:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again, with all due respect to Dick Trickle, here are my predictions for this weekend's Sprint Showdown and Sprint All-Star Race at Charlotte Motor Speedway. Showdown Lineup: Row 1: #56-Martin Truex Jr., #43-Aric Almirola Row 2: #42-Juan Montoya, #17-Ricky Stenhouse Jr. Row 3: #27-Paul Menard, #31-Jeff Burton Row 4: #1-Jamie McMurray, #13-Casey Mears Row 5: #7-Dave Blaney, #47-Bobby Labonte Row 6: #19-Mike Bliss, #93-Travis Kvapil Row 7: #44-Scott Riggs, #52-Brian Keselowski Row 8: #30-David Stremme, #38-David Gilliland Row 9: #83-David Reutimann, #10-Danica Patrick Row 10: #95-Michael McDowell, #87-Joe Nemechek Row 11: #36-J.J. Yeley, #32-Timmy Hill Row 12: #33-Landon Cassill Results: 1. #1-Jamie McMurray 2. #43-Aric Almirola 3. #56-Martin Truex Jr. 4. #31-Jeff Burton 5. #17-Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 6. #7-Dave Blaney 7. #27-Paul Menard 8. #47-Bobby Labonte 9. #93-Travis Kvapil 10. #30-David Stremme 11. #13-Casey Mears 12. #10-Danica Patrick 13. #83-David Reutimann 14. #36-J.J. Yeley 15. #42-Juan Montoya 16. #38-David Gilliland 17. #19-Mike Bliss 18. #32-Timmy Hill 19. #33-Landon Cassill 20. #95-Michael McDowell 21. #87-Joe Nemechek 22. #52-Brian Keselowski 23. #44-Scott Riggs All-Star Race Lineup: Row 1: #18-Kyle Busch, #48-Jimmie Johnson Row 2: #20-Matt Kenseth, #24-Jeff Gordon Row 3: #78-Kurt Busch, #39-Ryan Newman Row 4: #5-Kasey Kahne, #9-Marcos Ambrose Row 5: #15-Clint Bowyer, #16-Greg Biffle Row 6: #29-Kevin Harvick, #11-Denny Hamlin Row 7: #14-Tony Stewart, #55-Mark Martin Row 8: #2-Brad Keselowski, #99-Carl Edwards Row 9: #22-Joey Logano, #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. Row 10: #34-David Ragan, #1-Jamie McMurray Row 11: #43-Aric Almirola, #10-Danica Patrick Results: 1. #48-Jimmie Johnson 2. #20-Matt Kenseth 3. #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. 4. #43-Aric Almirola 5. #99-Carl Edwards 6. #22-Joey Logano 7. #2-Brad Keselowski 8. #29-Kevin Harvick 9. #14-Tony Stewart 10. #24-Jeff Gordon 11. #39-Ryan Newman 12. #5-Kasey Kahne 13. #18-Kyle Busch 14. #11-Denny Hamlin 15. #55-Mark Martin 16. #16-Greg Biffle 17. #15-Clint Bowyer 18. #78-Kurt Busch 19. #9-Marcos Ambrose 20. #1-Jamie McMurray 21. #10-Danica Patrick 22. #34-David Ragan 683. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart cares about safety... Yeah, he does a good job putting on an act. Looking at CMS today it would appear the track is starting to get really bumpy. 684. 83andJoe posted: 05.17.2013 - 1:00 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) As hands are wrung about stock cars having trap speeds at the end of the straightaways exceeding 200, the Indy cars are at Indy running lap averages, in open-wheel, open-cockpit cars, of 226, and the only concern voiced is that the cars are too slow. Tempest, meet teapot. 685. NicoRosbergFan posted: 05.17.2013 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) It's kind of funny... people pick open-wheel drivers for being wimps and cowards when in reality they have the bigger balls to start with. 686. Eric posted: 05.17.2013 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When I heard about Dick Trickle's death last was a shock to me. When you mention Great Wisconsin drivers, Dick Trickle's name comes first. My regret is not seeing him race in his prime. I saw him race in 1998,1999, and 2000 at the Milwaukee Mile. The fact is back in the 1980's I was into open wheel, not stock car racing. My thoughts are with his family. What is sounded like was Dick Trickle was depressed in his final weeks of his life. What I gather was his heath was on the decline in the last 3 weeks and had constant pain the chest are. It sounded like the doctors weren't about to treat his pain and Dick Trickle can't handle the pain anymore of how bad it was. 687. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosberg, if they had real 'big balls' they'd bring back the apron and run wing at minimum like they last did in 1996. 688. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 200-210 mph straightaway speed is fine as long as you're able to brake, lift, or scrub off speed in the corners. Not sure why anybody is making a big deal about it. 689. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Large Storms heading towards IMS. Looks like it could be a washout. 690. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.17.2013 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ray Evernham is in Jeff's garage stall in All Star practice. Wonder if he brought the wheel hubs they used there in '95 (sorry, I had to go there). 691. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is Ray going to replace Alan? I bet that's what Gordon fans are praying for... 692. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose in the wall hard... 693. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.17.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Is Ray going to replace Alan? I bet that's what Gordon fans are praying for..." I must say, that would be a fascinating case study. I wonder if they could re-create that chemistry they last had 14 years ago. It could be different than past depressing reunions like the late 80s when Dale Inman rejoined WAY past his prime Richard Petty or even the mid 90s when Jeff Hammond got back with a WAY past his prime Darrell (although their success at Junior Johnson and HMS could most be attributed to cheating). Jeff (regardless of what a certain Baltimorian on here says) is still in his prime racing years, and Ray has had a few years out of racing to get over his burnout. Could it work again? If Ray brings his old competitive fire back, can he stand his former pupil, Chad Knaus, back? Has the sport passed him by? Can that sort of chemistry be brought back like riding a bike? Or was it one of those "lightning in a bottle" deals? Obviously they won't win 13 races in a season again, the competition is way better than it was then, but can they be one of those weekly threats again? Personally I'd like to see it tried. Can it really be worse than Jeff and Alan? They just don't seem to have it the way him and Ray or him and Robbie had it. Hell, Jeff and Steve seemed to have a really good deal going. It just looked kinda bad towards the end cause Steve had Jeff in his injury years, and Alan arrived just in time for a healthier Jeff in 2011. That is one situation I give Richard Childress credit for: he kept Dale and Kevin Hamlin together for 2000 despite VERY lack luster results together in their time together in the second half of '98 and most of '99. He knew Dale liked Kevin's style and kept him around. Or did Dale just tell Richard to keep Kevin as his crew chief and Richard quickly said "yes, master!"? Considering how quick triggered RC has been in making crew chief swaps since Dale's passing, I wouldn't be surprised it that was the case (why the HELL did he split up Harvick and Gil Martin for '12? Why didn't he tell Harvick to go jump in a lake when he demanded all those changes at the end of '11? RC gave in to all of Harvick's demands, and The Vulture STILL wound up leaving him over a year early. What a douche!). 694. The Final Gear posted: 05.17.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jennifer Jo Cobb is having problems this weekend, might not even get to make the qualifying run and if she doesn't, that puts Mike Harmon in the field. karma? 695. cjs3872 posted: 05.17.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Eric, if that's true about Dick Trickle's health, then it was somewhat like the situation regarding Sid Collins I brought up yesterday. Collins had been diagnosed with ALS and decided to take his own life instead of put up with the suffering. And TeamPlayersBlue, one of the reasons they got rid of the old apron was because of safety concerns. Remember the last time that was used, back in 1992, they had some terrible crashes because guys were using the apron, and the fact that they were spinning out from there was causing them to hit the wall head-on. Jeff Andretti and Nelson Piquet, Sr. can tell you all about that. But also, drivers were using the apron as a racing groove, and USAC got so upset about that that they threatened to, and actually did penalize one driver (Mario Andretti) one full lap for using the apron to pass (that was in 1991), so the officials never wanted the safety apron used as a racing groove. But when they had the first NASCAR test in July of 1992, those cars were running on the edge of the grass, which would have put grass and even staples on to the track, so IMS had to redesign the corners to make the drivers run the track as it was originally intended to be run. A few years later, in 1996, the cars in that year's Brickyard 400 were actually throwing up grass, to the point where NASCAR threatened to penalize drivers for doing so, and on the broadcast, Danny Sullivan brought up that whole thing about the apron, and how he remembered how USAC had constantly warned drivers not to run there or they might get penalized for doing so, and as I mentioned, Mario Andretti actually was penalized for running on the apron, because USAC did not want drivers short-cutting the corners. In fact, when Rick Mears and Michael Andretti had their duel in 1991, with each passing the other on the outside in consecutive laps, the car doing the passing did so running the track the way it was intended to be run. And guys, I don't think anything is going to help Jeff Gordon on tracks like Charlotte and Michigan, because he won't step on it on tracks where you're on the throttle practically the whole way around the track, but put him on tracks where you have to drive the car, as was the case at Darlington last week, you saw what he's still capable of (16 leading laps and a third place finish). But the more you have to stay on he throttle, the less competitive he's likely to be. That's why I don't he'll be much of a factor at Charlotte, either this week or next week. If it had to do with driving ability, of course he's capable of running at the front, but on tracks that require flat-out speed, I don't think he has it any more. 696. We need more Onion posted: 05.17.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) First, I am really sad to hear that Dick took his life, may his soul rest in peace. Second, I'd like to go back to the Harmon-JJC feud and ask you guys what are the worst possible consequences for Mike, given that he has an alibi he can prove and Cobb has no evidence? (I'm unfamiliar with U.S. law enforcement) Also, NASCAR is not doing anything against him, right? 697. The Long Shot posted: 05.17.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @The Final Gear: Turns out you were right. JJC could not make her qualifying lap and will go home, and the 36th spot will go to, guess who, Mike Harmon. As one of my favorite Youtubers once said, "Karma is a bitch, isn't it?" 698. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR Logic: We care about costs, but Changing Engines after Final Practice is just fine. 699. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This qualifying is OFF THE HOOK! 700. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Best qualifying ever. 701. cjs3872 posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, one thing's for sure. Tomorrow night's race got a lot more interesting with Jimmie Johnson's mistake because he'll be starting at the back of the field when the race begins. Now I think Jimmie can get through the field, but we won't be seeing him become a factor in the All-Star Race for a while. 702. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Surpised by the lack of 'Arching' that worked so well for Kurt. 703. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth starting in the back as well. 704. murb posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was wrong about the pit road speed thing being a bad idea. Rad qualifying session!!! 705. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pitiful entry by Gordon. Ray's motivational speech apparently didn't work. But DAMN this fun! 706. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Still no Arching except by the guy that sat on pole, you would think others would get a clue... 707. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick fail 708. murb posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick pulled a JJ. 709. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Amazing entry by Logano. 710. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano nailed it. 711. murb posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Should be interesting to see how Dale Jr does getting into his stall, considering how terrible he's always been at doing that. 712. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't go to timing unless you want spoilers. SPEED is on an obvious delay from Charlotte. 713. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) June just shocked the shit out of me. He was way more aggressive coming into the pits than I expected (must have summoned the spirit of the Old Man) and parked it in the stall beautifully. 714. DaleSrFanForever posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) For once you can say that wasn't June's fault. Hate his outstanding effort got submarined like that. 715. David posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently, Carl Edwards had Dick Trickle's name written above the driver's side door. 716. Mr X posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since I haven't commented on this yet I would like to send my best wishes to the family and friends of Dick Trickle, and may he rest in peace. I was certainly surprised and saddened to hear the news regarding his life ending, and the way he ended it. I would also like to mention that I certainly feel sorry for whoever answered that phone call. This is the best qualifying session I've ever watched, and I only saw about the last half dozen cars as I just got home from work. It must be a huge adrenaline hit for the drivers aswell. It doesn't need to be implemented every week as Carl Edwards says, but it does drive home the reminder that something needs to be done to bring some interest to qualifying. Sad part is the qualifying may be more exciting then the race will be. 717. David posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Going back to Sean's post yesterday that got lost in the Dick Trickle shuffle: "I was just fired by Motorsports Analytics." That's too bad, Sean. Your articles were really great, especially since they were free. "I was obnoxious and unprofessional to him and I feel like even more of a jerk considering how kindly he took it. However, I asked Alan to remove all my earlier comments criticizing him, which will make this thread more unreadable but it seems like the decent thing to do, since my initial posts reflected poorly on him, poorly on me, and poorly on this site (since Smith is sponsoring it)." I almost feel as if it's partly my fault, because it was one of my comments that set you off. "I'm the Kyle Busch of the motorsports press, and I need to learn to grow up before I write again..." You'll always have a place here, Sean. 718. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 05.17.2013 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Michael Waltrip really is a creep. 719. The Long Shot posted: 06.26.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Withdrew: 52-Brian Keselowski 720. Altracing posted: 01.11.2018 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As of today, this race holds the record for the fastest average speed in a cup race at Darlington. 721. Rich posted: 12.06.2020 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mike Joy, Larry McReynolds and Darrell Waltrip were the commentators. Steve Byrnes, Matt Yocum and Krista Voda were the pit road reporters. Jeff Hammond was the roving reporter. Chris Myers and Michael Waltrip were the in the Hollywood hotel. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: