|| *Comments on the 2013 Coke Zero 400:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. murb posted: 07.05.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (4) (18) Toyotas should be strong, barring any TuRD engine failures. 2. joey2448 posted: 07.05.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (2) (13) Oh boy, the love birds are lined up nose to tail with each other. Let the jokes begin... Echoing what Murb said. Toyota's are indeed strong. And Michael Waltrip should make it an interesting mix up front. Perhaps this is a good race for Paul Menard to gain back some of the points he lost at Kentucky, when he was involved in that crash with Brad K. and Biffle. A.J. Allmendinger qualifies 33rd, one year after he was dropped from the Cup series due to a failed drug test. 3. 18fan posted: 07.05.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 5 of the top 7 and 7 of the top 10 cars in qualifying were among the cars that had the lightweight spacers that were confiscated yesterday. 4. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.05.2013 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (3) (4) This spacer fiasco is a joke. Another black eye in a season full of black eyes. 5. The Long Shot posted: 07.05.2013 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (7) (7) "Oh boy, the love birds are lined up nose to tail with each other. Let the jokes begin..." The only pair of drivers in the field who can say they banged all day and then banged all night. Yeah, I went there. #nonsatiricaljokesonRR 6. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.05.2013 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, David is too young for that humor. 7. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.05.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (9) joey, I gave you a thumbs down for even suggesting that Michael Waltrip might be a contender tomorrow night. It might possibly be true, but that's taboo in these parts. 8. The Long Shot posted: 07.05.2013 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, I'm sorry. Has he not had "*THE TALK*" yet? 9. Ed posted: 07.05.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon 16-1 odds? Vegas, you're outta here! 10. 83andJoe posted: 07.05.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) Just found some interesting stuff I hadn't heard before while reading up on stuff about Rich Bickle: Bickle claims that Darrell Waltrip deliberately torpedoed his 1997 Truck Series championship run, giving him bad engines for the last three races, because he didn't want to get out of his Cup car and all the sponsorship deals he could get wanted Bickle as the driver. http://gazettextra.com/news/2013/jun/13/edgerton-native-bickle-has-seen-it-all-short-track/ 11. 13 posted: 07.05.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My picks 1) Jamie Mcmurray 2) Matt Kenseth 3) Tony Stewart 4) Trevor Bayne, got a good feeling for him this weekend 5) Joey Logano 6) Greg Biffle 7) Brad Keselowski 8) Martin Truex Jr. 9) Jimmie Johnson 10) A.J Allmendinger 12. murb posted: 07.05.2013 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's really interesting 83andJoe. Given the ego that Darrell had as a driver, I would not be surprised one bit if that is true. 13. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.05.2013 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Could be sour grapes from Bickle, but that would be strange to hear 16 years after the fact. I could certainly see Waltrip behaving like that. 14. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (5) (1) Although it hasn't been officially announced yet, it is pretty well known that Richard Childress will be bringing back the #3 next year in Cup for his grandson Austin Dillon. As you can imagine, I have a few thoughts on this. First off, the easy part. I think we can all agree that, if he could be asked, Dale would say absolutely to Austin driving the #3, in fact he'd probably wonder why they quit running it in the first place. Dale had tremendous affection for Richard and would want this for Austin. With that said, I don't like it. First off, I think it is bad for Austin. As much as he wants it now, I think he will regret it. Driving that number sets him up for unrealistic expectations. Even a career that would be considered a success by most standards would look bad in that #3 car.dale not only had a ton of success in it, he stirred fans passions for better or worse in it like nobody else. For Austin to try to "continue the legacy" is setting down a path of hard knocks. Richard should let him carve out his own legacy. Hell, even the #29 wouldn't be a bad option for him. Another thing is the amount of time that has passed since we last saw it in Cup. This is actually a bad thing. It has become mythicized at this point. Again, not good for Austin. The fans are gonna want more than any driver could deliver. And we can't look past the last time we saw the #3 in Cup. Millions watched live as Dale died in it. By having these circumstances, and having so much time pass since, this is a sensitive issue that fans shouldn't be put through, and Austin shouldn't be put in the middle of. I know Richard Petty spent over 30 years in the #43 car, becoming the unquestioned King of stock car racing, and they didn't retire it. But Richard got to, in the end, climb out of that car for the last time and wave to the crows as they saluted the end of his career. Dale had to have his lifeless body cut out on live TV while an obviously horrified Schrader had to face the media. Do almost all of us a favor and leave it on the shelf Richard. Let your grandsons make their own identities, don't put so much pressure on Austin. Do the right thing. The short term gain won't be worth it. 15. AveryNH posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cool article 83andjoe. Crazy to think D.W. who was awful his last three years as a cup driver wouldn't step aside and try to develop Bickle into a cup driver. He couldn't have done much worse. Instead he drove Cale's 98 and the old 10-10-345 Pontiac before fizzling out. Oh the what ifs. 16. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I know I'm in the minority probably, but I expect this race to be much better than the Daytona 500. I always felt like it was more of the drivers' fault that race was so boring than it was the cars. 17. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "With that said, I don't like it. First off, I think it is bad for Austin. As much as he wants it now, I think he will regret it. Driving that number sets him up for unrealistic expectations. Even a career that would be considered a success by most standards would look bad in that #3 car.dale not only had a ton of success in it, he stirred fans passions for better or worse in it like nobody else. For Austin to try to "continue the legacy" is setting down a path of hard knocks. Richard should let him carve out his own legacy. Hell, even the #29 wouldn't be a bad option for him. Another thing is the amount of time that has passed since we last saw it in Cup. This is actually a bad thing. It has become mythicized at this point. Again, not good for Austin. The fans are gonna want more than any driver could deliver. And we can't look past the last time we saw the #3 in Cup. Millions watched live as Dale died in it. By having these circumstances, and having so much time pass since, this is a sensitive issue that fans shouldn't be put through, and Austin shouldn't be put in the middle of. I know Richard Petty spent over 30 years in the #43 car, becoming the unquestioned King of stock car racing, and they didn't retire it. But Richard got to, in the end, climb out of that car for the last time and wave to the crows as they saluted the end of his career. Dale had to have his lifeless body cut out on live TV while an obviously horrified Schrader had to face the media. Do almost all of us a favor and leave it on the shelf Richard. Let your grandsons make their own identities, don't put so much pressure on Austin. Do the right thing. The short term gain won't be worth it." I understand completely where you are coming from and you are certainly more well reasoned than most of those who are opposed to bringing the number back. However, I personally really, really, REALLY want to see the #3 back on the track in Sprint Cup again. I'm looking more forward to that than I am anything NASCAR has to offer in the near future. 18. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not completely opposed to the #3 returning, but I don't think it should be a black car right away because that would be way too much pressure. My personal preference would be to see the #3 stay unused until some years down the road until the day comes when Dale Jr. signs with Childress, but it doesn't seem like that will happen. 19. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing about Austin running the 3 that causes the problem I think is that they will paint up the car to look exactly like Dale's. Why does it have to be a BLACK number 3? Why not have it just be a *insert sponsor's primary color here* number 3? I think it would be fine if he just ran the number, but I also think making it look exactly like an old Earnhardt car is a terrible idea. To me that is what will screw up Austin's identity, not so much the number itself. 20. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but I don't think it should be a black car right away because that would be way too much pressure." Beat me to it. 21. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I am not opposed to the #3 coming back to NASCAR at some point, but I am opposed to it coming back next year for two reasons. One: it's still too soon after Dale's death. Yes, it has been 12 years, but even that is not enough time for many of us die-hard fans to adjust to someone else running the #3 in Cup. And like DSFF said, it's very possible that we would never be completely adjusted to someone else running the #3, since that number has been all but immortalized in association with Dale. And two: if the 3 were ever to come back, I'd only be okay with it if the person driving it had a similar driving style to Earnhardt's. I'm not sure I could ever stand seeing a conservative driver run the black #3 that has always been associated with aggressive driving. Unfortunately, that's exactly what Austin Dillon is: a conservative driver who has choked away his fair share of wins during his career (example: Iowa last month). I might receive hate mail for this, but if anyone deserves that #3 ride, it would be Kyle Larson. His driving style is probably the most similar to Dale's that I've seen since his passing. Kyle's a bit raw, but with just a little more development, I honestly can not see a more fitting successor to that #3 than Larson. 22. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What I've always thought Richard Childress should have done was to retire that version of the #3, and if he wanted to use it again, just use a different font for the number. Believe it or not, that was not always the font used for the #3, eve with Earnhardt. The first year Earnhardt drove full-time for Childress, they used the font that was used when Ricky Rudd drove it, and Childress use a completely different font altogether when he drove it. So retire the font, but not the number. And by the way DSFF, the last time we saw a #3 with the Cup cars was actually in 2003 at Charlotte. When they did the celebratory pre-race laps, they had a non-active champion represented with an active champion for the final few races that season, as 2003 was the last for Winston as the title sponsor for NASCAR's highest series, and Dale Earnhardt was honored at the fall Charlotte race that year, with Childress himself driving Earnhardt's 1994 championship Lumina besides Jeff Gordon, who was the active champion chosen to represent the active champions for that night. And how appropriate was that, Earnhardt and Gordon being honored the same night at the same race. I don't think there was a dry eye in the house when Childress, representing Earnhardt, and Gordon, drove a lap side-by-side together. For millions of fans, seeing the black #3 with the #24 next to it stirred up too many memories to count. If I remember right, NBC/TNT had a radio link-up with Gordon that night, and they decided not to use it, letting the pictures speak for the commentators, one of which was Benny Parsons, who commentated on many of the races Earnhardt and Gordon were in together. But that was the last time the #3 was on the track with the Cup cars, and the last time I think that font for the #3 should ever be seen on the track at a Cup race. I have no problem with running the number, as I think it should have been done long ago, but not with that font. 23. Anonomys posted: 07.06.2013 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I think that Richard Childress should have Austin Dillon's car no. to be 03 so it still has the 3, but isn't Earnhardt's number. Just my 2 cents worth. 24. 18fan posted: 07.06.2013 - 2:16 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think Childress should go back to the font of #3 that Richard used when he drove it. 25. JP88 posted: 07.06.2013 - 3:46 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) As an Earnhardt fan, I actually want to see the #3 back. I think it would be cool to finally move on from Dale being the last one to drive the #3...some day someone will drive the 3 and I rather it be someone connected to RC then someone unknown 50 years from now. 26. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 5:26 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I just wanna say I am also not opposed to to the #3 returning at some point. I just think these are the wrong circumstances. I also wouldn't be opposed to him running a #3 that looks like it did when Richard was driving, like the CRC Chemicals car. But he seems pretty married to that style that is famous and "carrying the legacy". 27. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:24 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I've got a better question: why was Childress allowed to keep the #3 hostage, but when KING Richard tried the same NASCAR threatened to revoke. I think Richard should be fined the rent money for every season from 2002 onwards in which he didn't run the number in any of the top 3 series. 28. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is what cjs3872 is talking about in post #22: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=majZLA1gNcY 29. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) Nico, I think due to the differing circumstances under which Dale and Richard left the sport had a lot to do with that. With a very emotionally charged situation like that, it has been in NASCAR's as well as Childress's best interest to just let him keep that number on the shelf. It would be really bad if he had to relinquish it and some schmuck wound up running it. Remember when Toyota first came to the sport, and they had that one team owned by some 23 year old who made a fortune off the internet (can't remember the guy's name or the team's name). He hired Mike Skinner and was gonna run him in a #3 truck before being talked out of it because he knew nothing about the sport. And Skinner defended them wanting to run it, saying Dale never ran a Truck race, and that he won a championship in Trucks with the #3. That would have looked pretty bad, even though Dale never ran the Trucks, letting the bum Mike Skinner drive the #3 after Dale's death in a national touring Series. 30. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Shelve the 8 for Little Joe then. The fact that they did that is what makes it an issue. People are obsessing over something that happened 10 years ago, but every other great who died gets spat upon, including Fireball, who was probably better than Dale or Richard. 31. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:50 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) Also, DSFF, calling Skinner a bum is pretty low considering Skinner was basically the California version of Earnhardt AND Skinner won 16 races in the #3 truck from 95-96. 32. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:17 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Mike Skinner wasn't a great Cup driver (best non-independent to never win a race), but he made up for it by being one of the best drivers in Truck Series. Won the championship in 1995, almost won another in 2007, and won a lot of races both before and after his tenure in Cup for not only RCR, but the now-defunct teams owned by Bill Davis and Randy Moss. Not a bum. 33. Alex posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) When exactly are the right circumstances to return the #3? Wait for Childress' great-grandsons? Wait for Dale Jr. to have kids? 34. Eric posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:11 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) NoLongerAnonymous, It is not as strange for Rich Bickle to speak out 16 years after what happened to him. Rich Bickle raced in NASCAR through 2005 and that meant he had to keep his mouth shut while racing race in NASCAR if what Rich said is true about Darrell Waltrip. The fact is a driver claiming an owner is ruining his chance of a Truck Series champion is something that NASCAR owners could blackball you for especially the fact Darrell Waltrip is extremely well known to the owners of NASCAR teams and drivers. You also have to look at how many times did Rich Bickle really had a chance to talk to the media about his NASCAR career after 2005. Rich Bicklehad over 200 NASCAR races, but he is not a driver that the national race media would do a spotlight on like on in terms his NASCAR career unlike fellow Wisconsin native NASCAR Driver Dave Marcis. Dave Marcis was known for his longevity of his cup career and his wingtips. 35. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I say let Austin Dillon drive the #3 car, with the same exact font as Dale Earnhardt had. This way we can all watch Austin succeed or fail at the Cup level in style with much media attention. One thing that I think will be Austin's downfall in Cup is that he's a much better driver than he is a racer, as evidenced by his six poles in the last six oval Nationwide races. If you don't believe me, just watch the final laps of the Iowa race a month ago when Trevor Bayne, one of the most conservative young drivers in the sport, out-muscled Austin for the lead and ultimately the win in a race that Austin had DOMINATED because he had the fastest car. Austin lost that race because he didn't want it as much as Bayne did, and if he was a better racer he would have put up a better fight to retain the victory. Seeing as how the only way to consistently run up front in an RCR car is to race your way up there, rather than rely on the car's speed to finish up front (see Kevin Harvick), I don't see Austin doing that well at the Cup level against stiffer competition. If he wants to drive the #3 car, let him. All eyes will be on him to see whether he succeeds or fails, and if he wants that kind of pressure, then by all means let him. 36. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NoLongerAnonymous, It is not as strange for Rich Bickle to speak out 16 years after what happened to him. Rich Bickle raced in NASCAR through 2005 and that meant he had to keep his mouth shut while racing race in NASCAR if what Rich said is true about Darrell Waltrip. The fact is a driver claiming an owner is ruining his chance of a Truck Series champion is something that NASCAR owners could blackball you for especially the fact Darrell Waltrip is extremely well known to the owners of NASCAR teams and drivers. You also have to look at how many times did Rich Bickle really had a chance to talk to the media about his NASCAR career after 2005. Rich Bicklehad over 200 NASCAR races, but he is not a driver that the national race media would do a spotlight on like on in terms his NASCAR career unlike fellow Wisconsin native NASCAR Driver Dave Marcis. Dave Marcis was known for his longevity of his cup career and his wingtips." Good points. Maybe he just didn't have a platform to talk about this in the 8 years he's been out of NASCAR, and now as he's retiring as a driver he is getting a little bit of attention. I certainly believe Waltrip would do something like this and I don't really have a reason to doubt Bickle here. "Also, DSFF, calling Skinner a bum is pretty low considering Skinner was basically the California version of Earnhardt AND Skinner won 16 races in the #3 truck from 95-96." "Mike Skinner wasn't a great Cup driver (best non-independent to never win a race), but he made up for it by being one of the best drivers in Truck Series. Won the championship in 1995, almost won another in 2007, and won a lot of races both before and after his tenure in Cup for not only RCR, but the now-defunct teams owned by Bill Davis and Randy Moss. Not a bum." I agree, Mike Skinner was far from a bum. Things may not have worked out for him in Cup but he had about 3 solid seasons there, all while Earnhardt started to dislike him more and more. But if I owned a Truck team in the 1990s through the late 2000s, he would be one of the first names on my list along with Sprague and Hornaday. 37. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) See, I don't think numbers should be retired at all, at least not permanently. Eventually, you're going to run out of numbers, so you'll have to pick and choose which numbers are to be kept retired, and heaven knows that could lead to some controversial debates, especially in sports like football and baseball. I understand the whole memorial aspect of this tradition, but eventually they are going to have to stop. 38. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: The name you're looking for with the dot-com kid is Alexander Meshkin. 39. Kellen posted: 07.06.2013 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bang racing also one of the early partners in the deal was larry mcreynolds. 40. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) Once Jimmie Johnson retires, NASCAR needs to instill a 50 year ban on anyone using the 48, so that we can all have a nice, relaxing break from watching that 48 dominating day in and day out and DAY IN AND DAY OUT AND *DAY IN AND DAY OUT AND /DAY IN AND DAY OUT AND _DAY IN AND DAY OUT_/*... Sorry. I kind of lost it there. 41. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) And by the way, not to toot my own horn or anything, but: HTML coding weirdo nutjob douchebags for the win! 42. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.06.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I agree that it'd be best to let Austin Dillon run a different font for the 3 car. Childress is trying too hard to associate him with Earnhardt's past success. Roush bothered to change the 17 font for Stenhouse this year, so I would be in favor of RCR doing that for Austin (although he won't). 43. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRandPenskeGuy, except for Mark Martin, Jack Roush has ALWAYS changed either the car number or the car font after a driver leaves the team. 44. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson's in that small group of great drivers who have driven the same car number for virtually their entire career and are largely associated with that number: Lee Petty's #42, Richard Petty's #43, Earnhardt's #3 (I know he drove other cars, but he drove the #3 for a long time), Gordon's #24, and Johnson's #48 are the main examples I can think of. A lot of the great drivers in NASCAR history changed teams more often than they changed underwear for whatever reason (think about Bobby Allison).I think when Gordon retires, Hendrick will switch that team's number to #25, but if he doesn't resume using #24 within a few years, another team might take it. I don't think Johnson is as revered as Gordon is and I am not sure if they'll switch the number of that car, although the precedent if it is done for the #24 may lead them to do so. 45. ch posted: 07.06.2013 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "RCRandPenskeGuy, except for Mark Martin, Jack Roush has ALWAYS changed either the car number or the car font after a driver leaves the team." David Ragan and Ricky Stenhouse Jr. both had the same font for the 6. 46. The Sound posted: 07.06.2013 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I fail to see how retiring numbers in NASCAR is a bad thing. If Earnhardt's 3 is never retired (Richard made the choice to keep the 43 around), that pretty much sets the precedent that universally retiring numbers in NASCAR is just not going to happen. But why not? Just as in basketball, where 23 SHOULD be retired, and the 42 of Jackie Robinson, sometimes numbers are iconic, and it serves as a great history lesson to new fans of the sport. The argument that NASCAR will eventually run out of numbers makes no sense. Who says they are limited to 2 digits? Unless NASCAR has a new rule that I am unaware of, I see no reason why triple digits would not be feasible. And even without that, you have 110 different number combinations, including the 00-09 numbers. With 43 car fields, how would we run out of numbers any time this millennium? Unless NASCAR decided to go crazy in retiring numbers, which I do not foresee. I understand that Childress and Dillon can do whatever they want, but from a sports fan point of view, why not have retired numbers? This works for other sports, and I would even argue that numbers are more integral parts of NASCAR than nearly any other sport. I would find it hard to believe that someone could support retired numbers in other sports, but not NASCAR. 47. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Even IROC got all stupid and retired the 3, which spited Helio Castroneves, who they had use the #03. How the hell can you do that in a series that is supposed to represent the best in */ALL/* of motorsports. You can't. In fact, that's darned stupid and shows just how biased that series was toward NASCAR driver on top of the fact that they ran vehicles that were very close to NASCARs and developed by former NASCAR drivers and engineers. 48. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Sound, I was less talking about NASCAR and more talking about sports like the NFL and MLB, which have retired many different numbers (and that's not counting the individual teams). 49. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I can't say exactly when the right circumstances would be, but this just doesn't feel right to me. Honestly, the longer it goes without being used, the worse it will be when it does return. As I said, there is a perfect storm mixture that led to the #3 being shelved, and the reason it is an emotionally charged issue almost 13 years later (no athletes in the world are as superstitious as race car drivers, hard to believe Richard is basically gonna re introduce the #3 to Cup for 2014 Speedweeks, the 13th anniversary of Dale passing in that car, heck fear of the #13 isn't limited to racing or sports at all, no high rise building has a marked 13th floor, and we still get bent out of shape on any Friday the 13th). But most importantly it is a bad deal for Austin. With that much attention and emotion attached to an already difficult situation, being a rookie in Cup, I think his grandfather is doing him wrong. Anything less than multiple Cup championships will bring out rounds of "Yeah, but Dale did so much better in that car" which are unfair, but unavoidable. Look, I've long since accepted and moved on from the fact that Dale died. This is about more than that. Heck, I've even gone on YouTube and watched the live feed of the last laps and post race of the '01 Daytona 500. Part of it was to see how much of it happened as I remembered. I recalled Dale's wreck being brushed off initially until they realized he wasn't getting out. This was true with one major exception: Darrell Waltrip. Hard to remember the days before he was nothing but a TV clown, but if any of you ever watch it, pay attention to his commentary and the direction he keeps looking even as his own brother scored the ultimate breakthrough. If you pay close attention, he starts to say "the three car is out of shape" as the wreck begins (oit of the live shot) before Mike Joy screams "Whoa!" and it is Larry who keeps telling Darrell to bring his brother home. Darrell does, but when they put the camera on him, the whole time he is looking to his left to Turn 4. He isn't paying Mikey one bit of attention. The fact is Darrell knew. Immediately. While the rest of us were watching the replays thinking "that doesn't look bad at all" (something else I remember thinking) it was Darrell who pointed out that that is the worst kind of wreck you can have in very descriptive and relatable language. And poor Schrader. It was even worse than I remember. Having to give an interview after seeing your friend like that? But that is the thing about that wreck, it froze Dale in time for us, as well as that number. He will forever be The Man as he was in February 2001, the 7 time champ, just off a runner up poits finish the previous year (his TENTH top 2 points finish in 22 seasons) at age 49, coming back after a few lost years due to his crippling Dega '96 injuries. From a legacy standpoint, it was perfect timing. Had he not had those lost years to bounce back from, I don't think his legacy would have been as strong had he passed earlier. We never had to see him bumbling on TV (Darrell, Rusty), struggling with a failing race team (Bobby, AJ Foyt, Cale, Pearson) or hanging on way past his prime in bad equipment looking lost (Petty). In the new Sports Illustrated, they have a Where Are They Now feature on many athletes, including Joe Montana. They talk about how, after he retired from football, he pretty much disappeared from the public spotlight after one forgettable year doing TV for NBC. That has frozen him in time for us, he will always be Joe Cool, forever holding the title of the guy you want QBing your team if you are down by 3 in a big game with 2 minutes left. Again, different circumstances, but Dale and the #3 are frozen in time for so many of us. We can't forget that. 50. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you pay close attention, he starts to say "the three car is out of shape" as the wreck begins (oit of the live shot) before Mike Joy screams "Whoa!" and it is Larry who keeps telling Darrell to bring his brother home. Darrell does, but when they put the camera on him, the whole time he is looking to his left to Turn 4. He isn't paying Mikey one bit of attention." I've often wondered: while most of his tears are obviously tears of happiness for Mikey, could some of them have also been for Dale? Did Darrell know immediately that Dale was injured? If that is the case, then I think we need to give DW a lot more credit than what we've been giving him. Remember that satirical comment I made back on the Coke 600 page (the one that I made in the middle of the race; sorry again)? Who's to say that Darrell isn't really thinking all that? "I'm way smarter than this buffoon that I'm pretending to be. Why did I ever let Fox rope me into that 'Digger Deal'?" "And poor Schrader. It was even worse than I remember. Having to give an interview after seeing your friend like that?" I know. It's so obvious that he's fighting back tears that I can't believe that no one realized right then and there that Dale was seriously injured. I also can't believe that he even allowed people to interview him while he was in that state. He's said before that he knew immediately that Dale was dead. Why give any interviews, then? You know the media's going to be hounding you for information, and you can't bear telling them the truth. Why even talk if you're in that condition? Anyways, that was an utterly fantastic post, DSFF. If there's anyone in the world who is really and truly qualified to talk about The Intimidator, it's you. 51. kup posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) In 5 Leagues I own 5 Fantasy teams, placed: 1st, 1st, 4th, 6th, 7th. I like some shuffle with my drivers. For Daytona 400 they are: 48+20 in all 5 teams, #55 in 4 teams, #51 in 3 teams, 78+15+95 in 2 teams, 29+83 in 1. 52. kup posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Austin Dillon #3 or #03 ? Some funny notes from Russia: #01 - Fire and Rescue cars #02 - Police cars #03 - Ambulance, medical, hospital cars #04 - Gas cars How they allowed Clint Bowyer #33 after #07 ? And what is bad if AD will have #33? Weird eureka: AD #003 or #333 =) 53. AveryNH posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) My seven year old mind did sense that Kenny was really shaken, obviously I mean he was as white as a ghost. But I figured Dale was gonna be back next week at Rockingham. So I switched over to Espn and watched the Iroc re air. And only after that did the nightmare begin. I don't recall how I found out. I just remember bawling. The 500 was the first race I ever taped. And Boy what a first race for my collection. It's worn down over the years but I'll still watch it from time to time during the off season. I even taped the pre race and the start of the Rockingham race too as a tribute. Unfortunately it was postponed and I had to fake sick just to see Steve Park pull off his greatest win ever. I'll never forget that day either 54. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I think the best thing to would have been for Childress to shelve the 3 for the year and then just quietly let it return to normal circulation, but we also know Childress is extraordinarily arrogant. 55. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't make this all that clear in my post, but the point of my YouTube rant was that I watched it to basically relive my sports hero's death, and came away more thinking about Darrell's commentary and how instinctive and insightful he is capable of being in the booth, and how he just knew, even as Dale was first getting out of shape, that he was in trouble. Yes Long Shot, Darrell knew from the way the crash went down that it was bad. While the rest of us were watching replays of an innocent looking crash, Darrell saw between the lines, saw the angle he hit at and the sudden stop, and the role Schrader's presence in that played, a theme thouroghly discussed in the final accident report. My point is, once I was through watching it, I wasn't even thinking about Dale, I was thinking about Darrell and how far he has fallen as an "analyst". I took that as a sign I had moved on. And my other thought was Schrader. I do remember that Kenny's interview was when I knew Dale was in trouble. Even with all the commotion around Dale's car, I kept thinking "well, he is old and he is Dale Earnhardt, so those paramedics must be taking extra precaustions for him". Had I known then what I know now being a paramedic myself, I would have known right then. But when they interviewed Schrader, somebody who ALWAYS found humor in any situation that obviously spooked and at such a loss for words, that the time for frantic prayer had arrived. 56. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why rehash bad memories for all of us? Dale got his eternal reward and is telling the Lord that He's truly number 1 and no other. To answer the question, NASCAR has a rule saying no 3-digit numbers or letters. Dumb rule. They severely enforce it to the extent that NASCAR wouldn't let Darrell run the #300 as a tribute to raise money for Frances when they all realized that Tim Flock was going to die. 57. AveryNH posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also back to the number fonts. I don't think the 99 font has changed ever. Even after Carl took over for Burton mid season back in 04. I'm almost certain it has always stayed the same. 58. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, shut and go become a track paramedic. They need people like you. 59. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to say "Shut the hell up and go become a track paramedic." 60. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Had I known then what I know now being a paramedic myself, I would have known right then." Basically, if the paramedics are around the car for more than about 5 minutes or so, and the driver hasn't climbed out, then it's time to start worrying. 61. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The past is dead its time focus on how to fix NASCAR's Problems. 62. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "The past is dead its time focus on how to fix NASCAR's Problems." I'm sorely to tempted to say "NASCAR's PRAWblems", but I won't. 63. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also the fact they were immediately cutting him out of the car and climbing in there with him while it was still in a smoldering heap. And I apologize for bringing up the bad memories, I was just trying to point out my stance on keeping the #3 shelved isn't cause I am still dwelling on Dale's passing. You are right, he has been experiencing the ultimate eternal award for the past 13 years, being with The Lord. And he has finally been reunited with his father, and has been having a blast with that for the past 13 years. That always makes me smile. 64. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think the 99 font has changed ever. Even after Carl took over for Burton mid season back in 04. I'm almost certain it has always stayed the same." It hasn't changed since Carl took over, but obviously when Burton was the driver it had a couple different fonts. I don't remember anything about the 2001 Daytona 500 really. I was only 6 years old. I just remember being really excited before the season that Dodge was back and that two of my favorite drivers (Bill Elliott and Ward Burton) would be driving Dodges. As for the race itself, I just remember the slick new starting grid that Fox rolled out for their first ever race. It's unfortunate that I was too young to appreciate the racing, because when you go back and watch the race, it was probably one of the best Daytona 500s ever racing-wise (obviously when you take away the last lap). And as for Dale's death, I had absolutely no idea. It sounds horrible, but I was just so young that I honestly didn't have that much of a concept of the reality that death can happen in auto racing. I was around for Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin in 2000, but those didn't really sink in to my young brain. So that's what happened with Dale in the 500. I had heard about it after the race, but it didn't really register with me. Only later when I became older and researched it did I realize what a blow it was for the sport. 65. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unfortunately fixing NASCAR's current problems include a complete house cleaning of all the decision makers, starting with Brian France. It involves a complete cleaning of the current slate and re-imagining of the sport. But the fat cats in Daytona Beach have nobody to answer to and are way too full of themselves to ever admit they are the problem and resign like they should. 66. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) In fact, DSFF, have Austin bring it back, fail, leave Cup after 2 or 3 years and then the number is back in circulation because Richard will be too embarrassed to hold it hostage for Ty. 67. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.06.2013 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very appropriately, Chris Economaki has been named the third recipient for the Squier Hall Award for Media Excellence. 68. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2013 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guys, Waltrip somehow knew Earnhardt's crash was serious. Nearly a decade ago, ESPN Classic did a special that promoted the film "3", and they had Benny Parsons and Buddy Baker on there. Baker was watching that race (the 2001 Daytona 500) with his wife (I believe) and she told him that the crash didn't look serious, but watching the race, Baker knew it was serious, and said on that program that the first hint to him of the seriousness of the crash was the tone in Waltrip's voice, so Waltrip instantaneously knew just how serious Earnhardt's crash was. I still have that program on VHS. And as for the retirement of numbers, I've said it before and I'll say it again. Retiring numbers is out of bounds for a sports league or sanctioning body. I don't think IndyCar has a right to retire the #14 when and if A.J. Foyt Racing ever does go under, nor do I think that MLB ever had the right to retire the #42 in honor of Jackie Robinson in 1997. Retiring numbers is something teams have a right to do, not sports leagues. And by the way, they also have no right to prevent teams from retiring numbers, as the NFL once did. That's one reason why the Chicago Bears took so long to retire the numbers 40 and 51 in honor of Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus (the greatest player in NFL history), respectively, and that's also a major reason the Bills never officially retired O.J. Simpson's #32, and by the time they likely would have, we know what happened. The NFL prohibited the retiring of uniform numbers for a number of years. Whether or not a team retires a number is, and should always be a team's decision, not a sports league's. 69. Woodbridge posted: 07.06.2013 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am picking Kevin Harvick as tonight's winner. 70. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder how Ty Dillon feels about all of this. It's either big brother Austin is gonna get the #3 or no one is, can you imagine having to deal with it from his perspective? To throw in my 2 cents, I think the #3 needs to be brought back, but not next year. Austin Dillon is not ready for Cup yet. I would like to see Childress keep it though just so it somehow doesn't end up in the possession of Phil Parsons. Also, deviating from the topic a bit. Fallout from Flapgate, penalties or no? Has there ever been an indecent in the modern era where so many teams had parts confiscated? And has any team been caught cheating in half a season as much as Penske has? 71. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Leela why is your number 5/8ths?" "because all the whole numbers have been retired" 72. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Woodbridge, put money on that. You are one-for-one so far. Sorry I've been off the grid, but I've been at a family reunion. I would like to reply to several things, but I'm not in a position to copy-and-paste right now. 73. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The #14 should ABSOLUTELY be retired from Indy once AJ is no longer involved. For 60 years of driving, owning, driving and owning, innovating, drawing fans, bringing eyes to Indy, and throwing tiny little foreign victory lane crashers into shrubbery, they need to do the right thing and retire #14 for good. 74. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, you are from California, do you think somebody nowadays should be allowed to wear #16 for the 49ers? 75. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sky Warrior, Penske has been caught cheating once this year , Texas, and then a part failure at Dover caused the #2 to fail post race inspection, and then this weeks roof flap thing i'm not sure i would call trying to cheat considering it was so widespread. 76. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While I don't agree with the retiring of numbers by sports leagues (I want the number of the first red, brown, yellow, and white players retired if they are going to retire the first black player's because it's racism against the other skin colors), but I have to agree with the retiring of the #99 by the NHL and the #14 by IMSA. Wayne Gretzky put up numbers that would be comparable to someone winning 400-500 NASCAR Cup races in 20 years. And Al Holbert wiped the competition off the face of the earth in IMSA and probably would have won somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12 24 Hours of Daytona (no one really has more than 5) if he hadn't perished. 77. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If IndyCar doesn't retire A.J. Foyt's number, I think DSFF and I will go on a nationwide gorilla press slam spree... ending in Hollywood where we will gorilla press slam the networks into airing a 10-part documentary titled "Jeff Gordon Never Say Die Moments" 78. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I can't believe "fans" on NASCAR RaceDay think there should be MORE night races in a season. Did they see the same race we saw last week, which was a great race on a 1.5 mile hot & slick track in the AFTERNOON? 79. JRacingFast posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF i hope your watching Ryan Newman right now on NASCAR raceday have his take on re-starts.....Its Newman at his finest. 80. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I can't believe "fans" on NASCAR RaceDay think there should be MORE night races in a season. Did they see the same race we saw last week, which was a great race on a 1.5 mile hot & slick track in the AFTERNOON?" For the first time in a long time I actually agreed with something Darrell Waltrip said. He said that he prefers Sunday afternoon races because of the traditions. I agree. Not only because of the tradition, but because day races are usually a lot better than night races because of the changing track conditions. Night races are just for gimmick purposes, and pretty much nothing else. The Bristol Night Race and the Coke 600 ending at night (and maybe the Fall Richmond race too) should be the only night races. 81. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Roberts on Race Day just now: "These fans are no dummies." lol 82. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Penske has been caught cheating once this year , Texas, and then a part failure at Dover caused the #2 to fail post race inspection" Since NASCAR penalized the #2 team after Dover, I still consider it a cheating incident, even though it was unintentional. "and then this weeks roof flap thing i'm not sure i would call trying to cheat considering it was so widespread." Just because it was widespread doesn't mean NASCAR can just turn a blind eye to it. It's a safety device the teams were tampering with. Imagine the reaction had teams been caught with hollowed-out roll cage bars. I want to see how NASCAR will respond to this, especially with how inconsistent they've been with penalties in the past, even just this year 83. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) if they made the car have more front downforce and made the rear spoiler smaller would that make the car more aerodynamic in the front and yet more unstable? 84. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was able to catch Newman's interview just before leaving for work. You are right, classic Newman. 85. Anonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...Why do I have this strange feeling BoB is going to finish in the top 3 tonight? 86. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Post #85 was me, I am using a different browser from my normal one right now and forgot to put my name in. 87. Jim Davis posted: 07.06.2013 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "...Why do I have this strange feeling BoB is going to finish in the top 3 tonight?" I can't recall a single instance where someone posted they have a feeling and it panned out that way. Anyone else? 88. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Anybody else just see Tony running? I didn't know he could do that. 89. Jim Davis posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That said, restrictor plate racing being what it is, I wouldn't be shocked if Patrick won the race. 90. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I actually had a strange feeling before last year's Budweiser Shootout that Jeff Gordon was going to end up flipping in that race, and he actually DID end up doing just that...although I don't think I posted what I felt. 91. Anonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kyle is going to win and I predict that Ricky is gonna get his first top 10 tonight 92. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And by the way DSFF, the last time we saw a #3 with the Cup cars was actually in 2003 at Charlotte. When they did the celebratory pre-race laps, they had a non-active champion represented with an active champion for the final few races that season, as 2003 was the last for Winston as the title sponsor for NASCAR's highest series, and Dale Earnhardt was honored at the fall Charlotte race that year, with Childress himself driving Earnhardt's 1994 championship Lumina besides Jeff Gordon, who was the active champion chosen to represent the active champions for that night." I just watched the broadcast of that celebratory moment, which was on NBC, and it's amazing to me how much time they spent on TV showing it and talking about Dale Earnhardt. Wally, BP and Allan Bestwick were commenting on the few parade laps for over six minutes! If that was done nowadays, the network would hardly show it at all, as they would just cut to commercial during the whole segment. 93. John Royal posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When is this god damn race supposed to start? It is already 2.30am here. 94. John Royal posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When it comes to #3 Dillon deal, I don't see a problem there. I've used to see #3 race in Nationwide and Trucks after Dale's death. Sure, those are not Cup series but those are NASCAR cars racing in circles after all. But if I were Dillon, I would come up with my own number and font. If I would fail, no one would care. If I would succeed, I would create new legacy. 95. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope one day I have kids as cute as Matt Kenseth's. Also, that was the National Anthem the way it is supposed to be done. 96. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "When is this god damn race supposed to start?" The green flag is scheduled at approximately the :49 minute mark of our respective time zones. 97. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Awesome. Just lost my signal because of a not so epic Idaho thunderstorm. I guess I'll just rely on you guys and that RaceBuddy thing to watch the first part of this. 98. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Royal, how are things going in Finland? Or Africa? Or wherever? 99. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ... And of course as soon as I post that my signal comes back, lol. 100. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like when a band does the national anthem its very very very hard to screw up 101. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just do the command already. 102. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin James and Adam Sandler? Damnit 103. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh God. Adam Sandler's latest movies are awful enough already, now I have to sit through him acting like an idiot giving the command for a race? Lovely! 104. John Royal posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #98 Very well thank you. (Finland) how did you guess? 105. aw posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I hate Adam Sandler. 106. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I knew with those two nuts doing the command, it couldn't be good. Remember what happened last time... 107. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Ashamed to admit it: I laughed. Jabber, go to YouTube and type in "Carl Lewis National Anthem". 108. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Loved it. Hopefully that's not the highlight of the night... 109. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They should just let Joe Gibbs grandson do both the prayer and the command every week. 110. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The command actually drew a slight chuckle out of me, but not really a laugh. 111. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Royal, I am just that good. (Just kidding, I cheated and looked up the time zones. I will learn those, though) This. Will. Be. Fun. 112. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, did you never learn the proper use of whitespace?! 113. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And for the record, I still use World Book Encyclopedia for looking up stuff (1994 edition). "The only pair of drivers in the field who can say they banged all day and then banged all night" Of course. It's a night race, silly goose. 114. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For this race, I look at my local radar! Nothing in sight... enjoy the racing. 115. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Horrible command to fire engines by two overrated actors (and one future NBA Hall of Famer) in an attempt to promote what is probably a horrible movie (I didn't like the first Grown Ups movie). Hopefully that wasn't a bad omen for this race. 116. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Young David's eyes are bleeding. 117. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, you're ignoring all the times I have supposedly used it correctly. 118. Smiff_2 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Geeze, JR with a potential problem on the right front? Who was it that said he inherited Gordon's luck? lol 119. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the #24 team's strategy is to finish inside the top ten and not go for the win. Because as we all know, nothing bad happens in the middle of the field at Daytona... 120. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Twittersphere absolutely hates that command. I'm on Jeff Gluck's side; it's a race, this is a sport, for the fans, it's about having fun. Let them be silly! 121. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Looks like the #24 team's strategy is to finish inside the top ten and not go for the win." Ah, the Jack Roush strategy. Nice choice, Gustafson and company. It worked out really well for Pastrana and Bayne last night. 122. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for the whitespace in that comment, that's what I do when I don't want people to notice what's in parentheses. ;) 123. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, big pack racing to start out. 124. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a programmer, that made me sick. 125. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There has already been more racing in 3 laps than they had in 500 miles here in February. 126. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joseph, the command should be performed with dignity, of which Adam Sandler and Kevin James are incapable of. I still have hope for Shaq (he was the other guy, right?). 127. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, the first 5 laps have been better than the first 180 laps of the 500 and Jr is fast! 128. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's it, you're a sick programmer, NRF. :) 129. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy hell! There has been a position change?! 130. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And this week's Flopper goes to Michael McDowell. 131. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's the rumor. 132. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll probably be the only one but i liked the starting command, i hate when people do it with no enthusiasm at all, also great racing so far, Trevor looks fast! 133. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoops, back to single file. 134. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We've already gone to single file racing. 135. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is a spotter cam really necessary? 136. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Welcome back to the 2013 Daytona 500... 137. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like Michael McDowell will have yet another last-place finish. Also, I'm happy that Paul Menard is up to third now. 138. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Shoot, I missed the first 15 laps of the Daytona Independence Weekend Parade! 139. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, at lest they;ve shown they can race when they want to. Ending oughta be exciting, until then, zzzzzzzzzzz 140. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) don't worry they'll wave a Debris Caution soon 141. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael Mcdowell finishes top 10 in Daytona 500, ran top 10 at Dega before a blown tire and almost got a top 20 there but parks it at lap 2 here? 142. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin intentionally dropped out of line and fell to the back because "I'd rather run 40th than just sit here in line." 143. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I take a number two to come back and find the top-7 unchanged... 15 laps later. 144. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ...They dropped TNT's Wide Open coverage so we could see more HILARIOUS KFC "I ATE THE BONES!!" commercials... WHY?! 145. JRacingfast posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And we just whitnessed our first "i ate the bones" commerical of the.night 146. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if Kasey Kahne is riding in second place, behind Kyle Busch, thinking about the other three times this year that he's been wrecked by Busch. 147. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I take a number two to come back and find the top-7 unchanged... 15 laps later." Thanks for that info. 148. Anonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Yep this sure is better than the tandem drafting. Glad we got rid of that 149. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There looks to be a bottom line on the move led by the 48. 150. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's the 'Pack Racing' the fans were crying and weeping for. 151. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard blows up! 152. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard up in flames. 153. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Noooooooooo, not Paul Menard!!!!! 154. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard blows it up big time. 155. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) well, that's a minor inconvience 156. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A fiery engine failure for Menard. 157. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Landon Cassill is getting lapped already? Paul Menard just blew up apparently. 158. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man that's too bad for Paul Menard, he was looking good! 159. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The #98 team didn't have a primary sponsor for this race, so it was a better financial move for them to just park it, rather than waste money by running longer. Paul Menard's car caught on fire from underneath after the engine blew up. That'll knock him out of the race. If I were the #29, #31, or #78 teams, I'd be worried. 160. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't know Menard was running a Toyota tonight. Just because your car is the same color as Kenseth's 500 car doesn't mean you have to do the same thing Paulie 161. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Dem good ol days like the 2000 Daytona 500, it must have been great cause Dale Joonyer's Daddy was still in the field. 162. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That looked like Kyle Busch's blow up in the February NNS race. 163. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, are you really gonna lift the hood and look at the motor? 164. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the problem with the chase and the points system. No-one wants to try anything aggressive at Daytona. Everyone wants to play is conservative and get a top 10 or top 15 finish. Carl is so far a head of 10th and Jimmy Fenning still would rather take a top 15 and not go for the win. Same with Jeff. Kyle Busch said a few weeks ago to a NASCAR reporter that he would take a 8th place run every week until the chase starts just to make sure he makes the chase. He doesn't want to take any chances. This creates bad racing especially at Talladega & Daytona. Along with Bristol especially the night race. 165. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 15 laps?!?! How long did that take you, NRF?! Menard has had no luck lately. 166. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (8) hahahaahaha 2 straight weeks Paul Menard eats it. Now he will have no shot at the Top 10 and the world is right again. I guess that is what you get when you walk that pathetic line of being 11-15th place car week in and week out and not having the talent to occasionally have a Top 5 run. 167. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And sorry if I didn't respond to any comments to my posts last week, my internet was out up until today. 168. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) @161, Dale Joonyer's Daddy was in the 2000 Daytona 500. That race was so bad, he unleashed an epic rant. 169. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard is falling in points because he got caught up in a ridiculous wreck not of his making and his engine blew up, now that's real funny right there. /sarcasm 170. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I liked Tandem racing, well at least until the fall Talladega race, they figured it out and played a game of politics, which became much less fun 171. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In response to my post #2....I guess this isn't the week Menard gains back points, lol. 172. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Note to NA$CAR: Find a Plate Racing Package that isn't boring. 173. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think these drivers are capable of putting on a good race but for whatever reason they just don't want to. 174. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ben Lowe: bombing the tracks? 175. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tandem racing wasn't half bad in my opinion, the racing at least. But you're right, jabber, the politicking involved with finding partners and staying with them was ridiculous. 176. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like the 98-2000 package it works fine at Talladega but produces awful, truly awful, races at the more narrow Daytona. Would the Wicker work on the Gen 6 car? 177. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, that's my secret... mainly because I hadn't commented for 8 minutes before doing that... 178. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh, jabber, don't remind me of that race. Jeff Gordon was the victim of Roush politics, as he lost his drafting partner in Trevor Bayne. 179. 18fan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When pack racing is done right, such as 2012 fall Talladega, it is great. When it's not, it sucks. The problem with tandem is that it became too political. 180. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) "Yep this sure is better than the tandem drafting. Glad we got rid of that" Lets not be like that buddy. The racing might not be great with the cars now, but don't try to act like the tandem racing was good. They made a necessary change unfortunately for us fans the change didn't create the optimum results. 181. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) J.J. Yeley is second now! 182. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talladega 2012 Fall had a mix of pack and tandem. 183. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The tandem stuff was really interesting for about five minutes. Once it started happening every race it became pretty obnoxious. And it was absolutely ridiculous how they were talking to each other on the radio during the race. 184. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I found tandem racing to be unique and fun. 185. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! Tow truck driver honked right in Menard's ear during his interview. I am amused by that. 186. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now obviously there are teams like the #21, #42, #1 etc. who will race very, very aggressive. But there are way too many teams that just play way too conservative. They wouldn't be if the chase wasn't around. Does anyone remember when Montoya was purposely giving positions away at the end of the Sonoma 08 race because he wanted to play it conservative and not mess up any chance to really hurt himself? 187. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One car is definitely smoking right now but TNT isn't mentioning it at all. 188. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MRN mentioned the smoking car, but they didn't say who it was. 189. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "One car is definitely smoking right now but TNT isn't mentioning it at all." It's the Stay-Dry they used to clean up Menard's blow up. 190. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They did mention it, it's Speedy Dry. 191. 18fan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's obvious how much more power the Hendrick cars have. 192. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) That's exactly why no one can get past the Kyle Busch-Matt Kenseth tandem, right? 193. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ... right after I made that comment, they FINALLY got shuffled back. 194. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really? I haven't seen it. 195. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wildcarts sounds like he needs glasses. 196. JG24FanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hi. 197. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hopefully Chad decides to keep the same set of left side tires on Jimmie's car for the last 100 laps like last week. 198. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Anyone else pumped for Indy Cars at Pocono tomorrow? 199. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I like TNT's coverage of the racing itself, but the amount of commercials they have is just laughable. 200. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I just looked at the Leaderboard for the first time in a while... I threw my computer across the house. 201. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) This season is draining whatever interest I had left in NASCAR. 202. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Anyone else pumped for Indy Cars at Pocono tomorrow?" Like I said last week, HELL YEAH. 203. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Typical Johnson... use a teammate to draft to the front and then intentionally leave the teammate out to dry. 204. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race isn't going to be a 5 star classic that's for sure. 205. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ben Lowe, you had interest left? 206. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait, did TNT copy Fox with that sideways camera or whatever it's called? 207. JG24FanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Anyone else pumped for Indy Cars at Pocono tomorrow?" Hell Yes! 208. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm WAY pumped for tomorrow when the professional auto racers take on Pocono and do something NASCAR doesn't do anywhere... put on a good show. 209. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I heard they are bringing back the Indy Car Triple Crown bonus. I know the old one was Indy, Pocono, and Ontario. But Ontario is a Chevron station now. What is the third one now? 210. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'm probably in the minority but I think Dallenbach is the best active TV analyst in NASCAR. 211. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see only 1 lane is really working yet again at Daytona. 212. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Fonata, DSFF 213. JRacingfast posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can some explain to me why they cant bring back the 2001-2005 package with these cars? Those years were perfect for rp racing 214. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I heard they are bringing back the Indy Car Triple Crown bonus. I know the old one was Indy, Pocono, and Ontario. But Ontario is a Chevron station now. What is the third one now?" My guess would be the Auto Club Speedway. Not that it would be my personal preference... 215. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Indy, Pocono, and Fontana are three tracks that are part of the IndyCar Triple Crown. 216. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "Paul Menard is falling in points because he got caught up in a ridiculous wreck not of his making and his engine blew up, now that's real funny right there. /sarcasm" It is comedy gold when you hate the guy! 217. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The winning move is going to be the Top 5-10 cars that take no tires on the last stop to get the track position because these cars cannot pass at all right now. 218. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I wish Pocono was a 500... that would really put these boys to shame. 219. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Can some explain to me why they cant bring back the 2001-2005 package with these cars? Those years were perfect for rp racing" That would make too much sense. Instead will still have the half-assed anti-tandem package with a completely different car than it was made for. 220. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to say this, but I agree with NLA. Wally is the best right now. He was dumb compared to Benny, but since Benny passed Wally's been the top dog. 221. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks guys. Fitting, that track is like 2 miles from where Ontario was. Can't wait to see a pack of Indy Cars running wide ass open through that tunnel turn. The Andretti cars swept the front row (love the 3 wide start will be there too). Go Hinch! 222. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Yes! Go Hinch! Show them what you're made of! 223. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Indy, Pocono and Fontana are the triple crown races. I'll be cheering for TK tomorrow. Why is everyone bashing the racing right now? It's not spectacular, but it's good so far. The bottom line is working, the top is still in use, and there's always that background chance something big could happen on any lap... 224. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree Nico, those Indy cars will complete 400 miles in an hour and a half. 225. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) as unhappy as we are with the commericals we really aren't missing much then again, its the same commercial with warren buffett that nobody likes 226. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently some people thought the 2000 Daytona 500 was great. Folks, I'm on a roll tonight! 227. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Can some explain to me why they cant bring back the 2001-2005 package with these cars? Those years were perfect for rp racing" because it was 2 cars ago? 228. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HONEY, THE KIDS ARE EATING THE BONES!! CAROL, GET OUT OF THE SHOWER! I am going to cry if I see another KFC "ATE THE BONES!" commerical... 229. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I heard Terry Labonte just completed his 10,000th career lap at Daytona on lap 59. 230. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) This top-2 really doesn't say much for the current state of plate racing... 231. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Get ready, "Are you checking me out" will become the new "I ate the bones" over the remainder of (A)TNT's coverage 232. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Blasphomy alert: I'd like to see IMS run a second Indy car race, 400 miles (cause there is only one Indy 500) in place of NASCAR's Brickyard 400. It is a win-win. One more exciting race and one less boring race. 233. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't want to see devastating wrecks like we've had with previous packages, but this package is plain boring. 234. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano in the wall. 235. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) did he lose a tire? 236. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano broke while several contenders were on the pits. Since they weren't lapped, this is great for them. 237. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two cautions for cars lightly hitting the wall and then sparking, basically... 238. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey didnt barely hit the wall he hit hard enough to shatter the brake ritir 239. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think this is the first four-tire pit stop for the #48 team in an eternity. 240. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl ran over a crew member while leaving his pit. 241. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) very morbid question: if you take a man out of the pit-stall do they consider it equipment? 242. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #237 Menard didn't hit the wall, he blew an engine right near the front of the pack. Both cautions so far have been legit. 243. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Thank you for showing us that pit guy getting his leg run over by a full bodied stock car. That was very necessary. We needed a Joe Theissman moment. 244. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) One of Carl Edward's guys had his ankle run over, and all Adam Alexander or (A)TNT will bother to do is say "wow" and show a replay as they fade to the 37th commercial break of the race. Nothing at all about whether or not he's ok, or even hardly an acknowledgement of what could easily be a shattered foot. Disgusting 245. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate when NASCAR calls unnecessary cautions, but cautions for a guy blowing up and dropping oil on the track and another guy hitting the wall and driving around slowly while his chassis is rubbing the track are 100% legitimate. 246. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope Carl's crewman is OK, it didn't look particularly gruesome in my opinion but it's hard to tell sometimes. 247. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Blasphomy alert: I'd like to see IMS run a second Indy car race, 400 miles (cause there is only one Indy 500) in place of NASCAR's Brickyard 400. It is a win-win. One more exciting race and one less boring race." We will still have a boring race when you consider NASCAR 99% likely to fill the vacant Indy race date with another race at Chicagoland, Las Vegas or Kentucky. 248. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And now we will show a replay! Thank God he's still up and walking. 249. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, it seems the crewman's alright. But his shoe certainly isn't. 250. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope they have spare shoes lying around 251. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Everyone just made green flag pit stops, so I don't think it was necessary to do it again under caution. 252. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was pretty gnarly. 253. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's better. Thank god he's ok, that looked like something had to be broken. But why show it and go straight to commercial? At least have the decency to pretend your producers haven't seen it yet and show it after the break, or better yet delay the break to let the viewers know he's ok 254. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) WHY GO TO COMMERCIAL WHEN THERE IS KICKASS RACING GOING ON?????? 255. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Just noticed that the three Front Row Motorsports drivers are 37th, 38th and 39th right now. The order is David Ragan, David Gilliland and Josh Wise. 256. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) hey look! a commercial that wasn't "are you checking me out" or "I ate the bones" 257. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Amazing that Carl Edwards crew member didn't have any foot or ankle injuries after having your ankle get caught in that particular spot, lucky for him. I actually thought that TNT were only trying to show Carl Edwards getting some tape removed from his grille. Pretty forgettable race so far. 258. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Disregaurd DAMNIT! 259. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow that was a pretty scary looking accident with the Edwards crew member. Oh good, more commercials. Just what I wanna f**king see. Four laps after a restart with the field packed together....... 260. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "HONEY, THE KIDS ARE EATING THE BONES..." *sobs uncontrollably* 261. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What are the odds the cars will be single file when the commercials are over? 262. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think I'm gonna eat some actual bones and see if I can give myself the Heimlick successfully before I pass out. Will be more interesting than this race. 263. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) Seriously, how damned stupid do you have to believe you ate chicken bones without knowing it? You *WILL* know if you're about to eat a chicken bone... 264. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) that is a very green car then again I don't like Chartuce, 265. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Seriously, how damned stupid do you have to believe you ate chicken bones without knowing it?" Doesn't it even say "BONELESS" on the box? 266. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unbelievable with these commercials. 267. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They may be running in 2 lines now, but there's no shuffling going on, it's just a 2-wide parade. 268. Jim Davis posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They did say the last 30 laps will be commercial free. 269. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Quicken Loans commercial is the most annoying one to me. Darrell Waltrip and Larry McReynolds don't sound convincing at all, it sounds like they're reading the script for the very first time. 270. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least the on track racing has picked up pretty substantially in the last 20 minutes. McMurray to the lead with a pass on the outside. 271. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why do I get the feeling that Schroeder will go on the Gorilla Press Slam Spree of TNT if there is another "I ate the bones" commercial? 272. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Personally, I think GEICO commercials are the worst. They're almost always irritating and they're literally spammed to death on every channel. I'm not sure what's worse...the guy made out of money or the camel excited about it being "Hump Day"... 273. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) We're goin' back to single file! 274. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The chicken bone is probably the most nutritious part of KFC chicken. 275. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So many commercials, Go Mcmurray! 276. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution is out apparently. 277. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Crash? 278. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mother of god Coke Zero has had 2 DIFFERENT commercials today. Welcome to the Twilight Zone everyone, now time to watch David Stremme take the win 279. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think Hamlin is involved. 280. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, three car incident with Truex, Montoya, and Hamlin. 281. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin Truex, Hamlin, and Montoya crashed. HARD hit for Truex. 282. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin just got Truex aero loose. 283. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Juan Pablo Montoya is seriously challenging Gordon and McMurray for that no luck title... 284. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch got some damage too. Hard hit for Truex. 285. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martin Truex looks done. 286. JRacingfast posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its nice to see that tnt replaced there"wide open coverage " with "wide open coverage...of commericals ".....excluding the last 30night laps of corse. 287. John Royal posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank god I am on satellite feed. 288. JG24FanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My favorite tune. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmzVEo7Ngg0&list=PL8276A3D3F1567F50 289. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) TNT: Sorry for interrupting your commercial watching experience, but we have to show you some quick pit stop action. We'll be back to our regularly scheduled commercials in just a moment! 290. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another damn commercial break is TNT so broke they have have a 30/10 minute split of commercial to race time. Then they come back for 15 seconds and go back to commercial 291. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) KFC I at the bones commercials > Coke commercials with The Baroness 292. JRacingfast posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) .......yes TNT did just miss pitstops only to come back and show pitstops....onlyto go.back to commercial 15 seconds later 293. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now watch them miss the restart 294. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Parker Kligerman, Tony Kanaan and Chase Elliott have all made comments on Twitter in regards to the ridiculous amount of commercials....as have most of the usual media reporters. Is this hell? Cuz hell for me is a place where I know there is a NASCAR race going on, but I can't watch it. 295. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Serious question...what would happen if BoB won this race? I think the website would explode. 296. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) I personally would love to see Danica Patrick win just to see the comments that would ensue. 297. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie is either going to jump this start, or screw it up 298. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) Piss off, Johnson! 299. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) NOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Just practicing for if the Baroness wins. 300. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) What would be even crazier is if BoB won and Mikey finished in second place. Things would get absolutely nuts if that scenario happened. 301. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) If the Go Daddy Girl won I would go on a Tombstone Piledriving Spree. 302. JG24FanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dan Pat is up front. 303. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love how Jeff's own teammates won't draft with him. 304. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Furthermore, I wonder what KYLE PETTY would have to say if Danica won. 305. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) I think we're all secretly cheering for Danica just so that Jimmie doesn't win 306. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And we're BACK!! 307. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) If she wins, I will never ever ever watch NASCAR again or post here and I truly mean that. I could never handle the hyperbole that would come with that. I am not kidding. 308. Commercials posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Did you miss us? 309. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish There could be more channels like Disney channel their only commercials are for the network and there always short , warning severe misuse of their, and there in this post 310. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Furthermore, I wonder what KYLE PETTY would have to say if Danica won." THAT would be interesting to see. 311. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, this is the 5th consecutive oval race that the 48 has by far been the car to beat. We only need Mikey up there to complete NASCAR's Triple Crown of nausea. 312. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just realized that Danica winning and Mikey finishing 2nd would be FOX's dream scenario. Makes me even MORE glad that they're not currently covering NASCAR right now, because if they were and that scenario happened, you know FOX would be having a serious orgasm over that. 313. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think half the people here would have to move into a cave if Danica won. 314. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Oh yeah, speaking of the people who think that Kyle isn't qualified to criticize Danica; look who won his/her ARCA debut at Daytona. 315. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) what the hell is ICRO? 316. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 16 laps till (A)TNT's Wide Open Coverage. Everybody ready? AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA THEY'RE LYING, PREPARE YOURSELVES FOR AN ASSAULT OF CORPORATE WHORING LIKE YOU'VE NEVER BEFORE SEEN 317. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, this is the 5th consecutive oval race that the 48 has by far been the car to beat. We only need Mikey up there to complete NASCAR's Triple Crown of nausea." Which, given how today's NASCAR works, proves how illegitimate that team is. Even Jeff in the 90s wasn't that ridiculous, and he was putting up numbers that would make what little blood Jimmie and Chad have drain out of their face. 318. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What the heck is an "IRCO" win TNT? 319. JRacingfast posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jabber.....i sure hope they meant iroc 320. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I wish it was 1999 again. 321. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon up to 4th now! 322. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Are you freaking kidding me? These commercials are ridiculous. 323. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Ah, hell, not the fricking GEICO pig! I've always wanted to strangle that little hamburger every time he shows up on my TV screen... 324. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I ATE THE BONES..." You wouldn't like me when I'm angry... 325. The Incredible Hulk (aka Schroeder51) posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) HULK ANGRY!! HULK SMASH!!! 326. JRacingfast posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anyone remember when CBS covered this race and it wasnt one giant.commerical whorefest and now theyll go through the field and go to commerical 327. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Gordon up to 4th now!" It won't last. We haven't yet had the "Jeff Gordon Bad Break of the Week presented by KFC & Aarons" Hopefully his weekly bad break ends up effecting Johnson somehow. 328. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like the originality of Schroeder's choice of rage attack. 329. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Taking the final break hallelujah !!!!! 330. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "we take our final commercial break as we go caution free on TNT" 331. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander: "We're taking our final break of the night." Yeah, let's hope so. 332. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What did Alexander mean when he said "we go caution free"? 333. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Gordon calling out Brad for moving around to keep his motor cool. Jeff might win, and a Gordon win just doesn't feel right unless I am pissed about it. The last 30 laps will be caution free according to AA! This just keeps getting better. 334. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, watch them throw in a commercial break with less than 10 to go... 335. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How much anybody want to bet we have a rash of "debris cautions" so TNT can have some commercial breaks in the final 30 laps? WE NEED MORE MASHED POTATOES & GRAVY AND MAC & CHEESE AND OH MY GOD I ATE THE BONES! 336. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Almirola crashes. My nuts just keep getting kicked. 337. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Almirola and Stremme crash... ...and that means MORE COMMERCIALS! 338. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lets see if they go to commercial 339. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spin! And commercial break. 340. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Commercial out for Almirola's crash 341. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Adam Alexander is no Nostradamus. 342. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I bet AC/DC earns more money for their intros and outros on TNT then from any other source. Adam Alexander also just said we go caution free for the rest of the night as opposed to commercial free for the rest of the night. You think they would've mastered how to go to and come back from commercial, good commentary from Wally and Kyle as usual however. Aric Almirola and David Stremme crash unfortunately, Biffle also has damage. 343. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle took a pretty good hit in the door from Almirola. 344. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was literally about to say to watch them go to commercial if a caution comes out. 345. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) even I could tell that Almorola hit Biffle...oh you also showed it and said it before 346. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How did Michael Waltrip get turned around like that? 347. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Gordon went through the grass on pit road. Classic Michael Waltrip pit stop. 348. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael Waltrip is pitting facing backwards... ...and Gordon probably damaged his car going through the grass. 349. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hasn't that happened to Waltrip before? 350. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael Waltrip's backwards in his stall, and Gordon ran his car into the grass... 351. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dinger's car got sideways on the straightaway, possibly from getting on the brakes too hard in reaction to Stremme's car hitting the wall, and clipped Almirola in the process. How Dinger didn't come back and hit the outside wall after literally being knocked sideways is pretty amazing. Gordon went through the grass trying to avoid Joe Nemechek's slower car on pit road. 352. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) holy crap, this is the longest they've gone without a commercial all race long 353. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hasn't that happened to Waltrip before?" I forget what exact race it was, but it was when he was in the 15 car. That's why I called it a "classic" MW pit stop. This Miss Sprint Cup Twitter stuff is just atrocious garbage. 354. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Sprint 60 competition is inherently biased! The 88 is the same digit twice, and the 2 is only one digit! 355. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) really? im suppose to be shocked that Jr won that? and we can livestream Tweets? wait a minute, they slipped a commercial in there 356. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy crap. I think TNT is actually gonna go caution, I mean commercial free for the last 30 laps. 357. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Seriously, I'm really sick of hearing about Twitter and how I need to be sending tweets over and over again. Am I SUPPOSED to have a Twitter account? 358. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Restart with 28 to go. Now there will be about 5 more cautions between now and the checkered flag. 359. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) im not going to declare Jimmie the winner yet, there is a lot of racing left to go, anything can and will happen (probably) 360. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (3) (6) Danica Patrick being able to run so well at the plate tracks is all the proof you need that plate tracks take very little talent to win anymore. 361. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) This has to be the most depressing season ever. 362. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I wish something could be done about the single car leading being able to switch lanes and block the whole track for 20+laps 363. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Remember earlier when I said Michael McDowell was going to finish last? Well, now Paul Menard will. 364. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ....they slipped that in there 365. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @363 Thank you, Brock. 366. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So much for that no more commercials crap. 367. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's watch the racing action while we listen to a Danica "The Face Of NASCAR" Patrick Coke Zero commercial. 368. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, at least they aren't doing anymore full blown commercials. Surely there is a group of guys that can just steamroll past that 48, right? 369. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) im taking it back...Jimmie has already won this race 370. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The only way that Johnson will lose this race is if someone wrecks him. Not that I want to see that happen, but let's face it...it's true... 371. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) 5 straight oval races where Jimmie Johnson has had the best car by ten fold on the 2nd best car and you are telling me that team is legal? Even more showing of his lack of talent even with the best car in the business by miles when it comes down to driver(road races) he is average at best. 372. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Harvick & Stewart need to let Johnson pull away from them so they can get a run a freight-train him. 373. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kyle and Wally giving an excellent analysis of why now is the time to attempt a move. 374. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Nobody CAN do anything with the 48. Pure brutality. 375. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution!! 376. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) did Hamlin go airborne? 377. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Massive crash. Jeff Gordon's car is in it, and so is Denny Hamlin. 378. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. Hope Denny's ok, again 379. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another huge hit for the 11 car. 380. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HUGE crash for Hamlin, I hope he's OK. 381. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin did not need that! 382. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I say they are wrong. 12-15 laps is still too early. I do agree that the last lap is too late though. Its got to be 2-8 laps left when you make it. Hope Denny's back is alright after that lick. 383. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! 384. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin got out on his own and walked to the ambulance, that's a good sign. 385. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Does anyone have anything for the 48 car. Or are they just going to let him win this race. 386. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two Joe Gibbs cars were in that crash. 387. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was weird. 388. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something must have broke on Hamlin's car, looked like Steve Park's sharp left at Darlington in 2001. 389. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Hate it for Blaney. If that guy didn't have bad luck he would have no luck at all. 390. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Looked like Hamlin wrecked himself and took out a lot of other cars with him. Very hard impact when Dinger ran into him. Kenseth turned dead left into Gordon in order to avoid t-boning Hamlin. 391. Anonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Two Joe Gibbs cars were in that crash." Almost three, Kyle just missed it 392. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) On the plus side, at least this "should" prevent Matt Kenseth from winning yet another race. Hope we can see a good finish and maybe even an underdog winner. 393. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The pack in front of Denny slowed and he tried to avoid 'em, got loose and over corrected and hit the wall. Hard hits for Dinger and Blaney too, thank God everyone climbed out and walked away. 394. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth Goes airborne! 395. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Both Kenseth and Hamlin came so close to flipping over.....and of course, Jeff Gordon is in it. I am not surprised at all. 396. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Dave Blaney's entire NASCAR career has been bad luck. 397. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I was afraid this injury would affect Denny. That was a move of somebody not comfortable in their car. Are they just gonna keep Denny in that car until permanent damage is done? 398. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The race is now under the red flag with 10 laps to go. 399. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would rather see kenseth turn down like did rather than see him t-bone Denny 400. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) "On the plus side, at least this "should" prevent Matt Kenseth from winning yet another race. Hope we can see a good finish and maybe even an underdog winner." Are you serious? Every time someone speaks ill of Jimmie Johnson you rush in like his night in shinning armor and you want to talk about Matt Kenseth winning "yet another". And you claim to not be a Jimmie fan? 401. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) who's willing to bet that if there is another big crash that Kyle will be taken out in it wonder if Gibbs is hiring for temporary work this week 402. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny can't keep taking big hits like these, or otherwise, his career might be prematurely over. But yet, Joe Gibbs brought him in a hurry because they felt he'd go on a hot streak and make his way into the Chase. 403. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Denny had a right rear tire go down, I though I saw some debris before Denny's moved left initially. Not so sure though lots of yet more hard hits for several drivers, including the recovering Hamlin and AJ, and a tough break for Jeff, but this red flag will help them make some patches, as that car can finish the race, and let's be honest another wreck is likely. 404. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate how this new car has made bump drafting impossible. That's why nobody can make an on track pass for the lead & why the leader can easily dictate a lanes momentum. 405. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Now that he won't be making the Chase, I'd really like to see Denny sit out for a little longer and heal properly. There's no reason to be out there risking further injury. There's nothing to gain. 406. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) "Are you serious? Every time someone speaks ill of Jimmie Johnson you rush in like his night in shinning armor and you want to talk about Matt Kenseth winning "yet another". And you claim to not be a Jimmie fan?" I just wanted to see if it would get the same reactions as all the anti-Jimmie posts. You just proved your hatred of Jimmie isn't really about winning. 407. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As much as I hate to see Gordon get taken out of the race (it looked like they were trying to fix that car on pit road...good luck with that), I would rather see Kenseth spin into him to avoid Hamlin rather than see the #20 T-bone the living daylights out of Hamlin's car RIGHT in the driver's side. 408. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Dave Blaney's entire NASCAR career has been bad luck." Never been truer words spoken. If I were Denny Hamlin I would call it a year and just rest up his body, start working out, eating right and getting focused on 2014. 409. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh, Mr X, they can't work on cars under caution. 410. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "this red flag will help them make some patches" Can't make repairs under the red, bro 411. AveryNH posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maniacal laugh from Chad. Hahaha restarts, what do you mean restarts? 412. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "RIGHT in the driver's side." Actually it would've been the passenger's side, it was Dinger who almost hit Denny driver side 413. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look, the 48 is gonna win unless he shits the bed on yet another restart. Not even JJ can screw up that many times. 414. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Chad Knaus " we have one of the best drivers and certainly the best team out there." Even Knaus occasionally doubts Johnson's abilities. 415. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TNT's race recap is just a crash recap! 416. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "I just wanted to see if it would get the same reactions as all the anti-Jimmie posts. You just proved your hatred of Jimmie isn't really about winning." I hated Jeff Gordon for his winning. Like you just said winning has nothing to do with why I hate Jimmie Johnson. Even if I could convince myself Johnson and his team were 100% legal every week I would never be able to get past his smug attitude and terrible leadership as the current face of NASCAR. 417. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF, we are counting on you... 418. John Royal posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's "top-10" strategy works out well again. Maybe he should learn from his team mates. You only survive being first or last. Gordon has no chance winning championship EVER AGAIN, he should just try to focus winning as much random races as possible and then retire. This conservative approach is sad thing to watch. 419. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "TNT's race recap is just a crash recap!" It's not like they have many "highlights" of the actual racing to choose from though. 420. JG24FanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Not even JJ can screw up that many times." Good satire. 421. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Maniacal laugh from Chad. Hahaha restarts, what do you mean restarts?" In the voice of Allen Iverson :: Restarts? Restarts? We talking about Restarts? 422. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant make patches under the red flag, that is allowed. It's the car you can't work on under red. 423. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go Ambrose and Mears. 424. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, you forgot that BoB is the face of NASCAR, not Johnson. Or at least in the media's eyes... 425. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (10) "I hated Jeff Gordon for his winning. Like you just said winning has nothing to do with why I hate Jimmie Johnson. Even if I could convince myself Johnson and his team were 100% legal every week I would never be able to get past his smug attitude and terrible leadership as the current face of NASCAR." You're the reason I wish this site had an "ignore user" feature. Oh well, I'll just have to do it mentally from now on. 426. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Smart move by JJ, Kasey ain't got no balls, he'll be a good little boy and push Jimmie to the lead where he can't be passed. 427. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe it isn't repairable for Gordon. 428. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reutimann's hood flies up. 429. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Jimmie jumped the restart 430. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's see if another crash doesn't happen before they reach the scheduled distance. 431. AveryNH posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go little yellow jacket go! 432. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) He just opened up the inside line for Kasey. Maybe he will shit the bed. 433. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CRASH! 434. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MASSIVE crash for Kahne. 435. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did Ambrose hit Kahne? 436. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh. That was just a nasty hit by Kahne. Hope he's okay. 437. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) too bad Ambrose wasn't leading when the caution came out hard hit by Kahne 438. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't believe what just happened with Kasey Kahne and Marcos Ambrose! 439. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Has anyone else noticed that Ambrose causes a wreck at every plate race? 440. AveryNH posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I jinxed him. Sorry guys. 441. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, that was a HARD hit by Kasey Kahne. Glad he got out of his car pretty quickly. Ambrose pits with some fender damage. 442. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Idiot Ambrose does exactly what I expected him to do... 443. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose tries to make it interesting and of course it f**ks up and Johnson is still leader 444. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are only about 30 cars left, I just noticed. 445. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "You're the reason I wish this site had an "ignore user" feature. Oh well, I'll just have to do it mentally from now on." by all means buddy don't read my post. You're not going to hurt my feelings 446. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) It seems to be destined that Johnson will win this race... 447. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Stupid move by JJ but it doesn't matter, his car is too good. He literally can't screw up in that equipment. 448. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Part of that was Jimmie's fault too. Ambrose made the initial move, but Jimmie just totally door slammed him. 449. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Jimmie blocking the entire field claims it's first victim. He will cause a wreck like Stewart at Dega last year 450. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) Is it just me or did Johnson come down into Ambrose ever so slightly and send him into Kahne? 451. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hard hit for Kahne, luckily he is out, on a slightly positive note that is one less teammate for Johnson. 452. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Jeff Gordon is 14th in the points standings now but just 9 points out of 10th. 453. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Is it just me or did Johnson come down into Ambrose ever so slightly and send him into Kahne?" Yes, Jimmie is certainly not clean when it comes to whose fault that wreck was. 454. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Jimmie just keeps his line he has the race won. I'm baffled he would go to the high line. I'm still in shock. Kasey Kahne has finished on the lead lap a dot over 50% on plate tracks in his cup career. 455. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That hurts in real time. 456. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Wow, Jimmie totally bumped Marcos and pushed him into Kasey. I don't care what anyone else says about it. 457. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Is it just me or did Johnson come down into Ambrose ever so slightly and send him into Kahne?" It's not just you, that's exactly what happened. 458. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) did Kahne even lift? 459. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) Johnson will blame Ambrose for that one. Because, you know, he just doesn't do anything wrong. 460. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Was that Ambrose or was that all Jimmie? I saw Jimmie come down on Ambrose and bump him into bumping Kahne. Tell me if I'm wrong because obviously I have some bias here. 461. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Come'on Smoke. Get angry at Johnson and punt him on the restart. 462. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope Kurt Busch steals it. Or McMurray. 463. JG24FanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Is it just me or did Johnson come down into Ambrose ever so slightly and send him into Kahne?" More than a little! 464. John Royal posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) GWC = lackluster ending. Jimmie will get jump start, gets ahead, white flag and crash ending race. 465. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YES!!! I wasn't the only one to see it that way. I do hate Johnson, but that is just part of this type racing. Again I hate him but won't hold it against him. 466. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Crash, but they're racing back! 467. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You've got to be kidding me. 468. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2 crashes on the last lap 469. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica gets turned at the checkered flag. 470. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Pure garbage. 471. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) That was just depressing. 472. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Jimmie Johnson: NASCAR'S first 8 time champion I'm convinced now. It is going to happen. 473. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (4) (2) Hmm..... Jimmie is pissed off about Dover re-start next race he dominates at Pocono and wins. Jimmie is pissed off about Kentucky re-start next race he dominated at Daytona and wins. 474. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) (A)TNT mistaking Danica for Kyle Busch. Highlight of the race people, highlight of the race 475. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) I love that NASCAR let them finish this race, however I am irate that they are never consistent with it. I swear to all that is holy the next race that has a last lap caution if NASCAR does not let it finish I would set NASCAR HQ on fire. 476. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Lost all hope for NASCAR it just sucks at this point in time 477. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (2) (5) This may have been the worst NASCAR Cup race I've ever watched in my entire life. 478. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson sweeps Daytona. That's the first time that has happened 1982, when Bobby Allison did it. 479. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (2) (6) NASCAR is a sinking ship. 480. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie Johnson: NASCAR'S first 8 time champion I'm convinced now. It is going to happen." At least Schroeder. 481. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) anybody else find it funny how the race after Dover Jimmie won and the race after Kentucky Jimmie won 482. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Terrible last lap crash, I hope everyone involved is OK. IF there's a positive about tonight's race, it's that the best car won. 483. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Well, congrats on your boy winning this one, NLA. You must be elated that we're all depressed about how this sport is swirling in Brian France's toilet bowl right now. 484. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) At LEAST eight championships? Dear God, don't tell me Johnson wins the next five championships and winds up with TEN... 485. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I am so depressed. Can we break out the satire, murb? Please please please please?? 486. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NLA is not a Johnson fan. Come on, people. 487. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I am so depressed. Can we break out the satire, murb? Please please please please??" I don't care man, do whatever you guys want. I'm too depressed about how far this sport has fallen to worry about what you guys say in the comments. 488. beau posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) seems like its near impossible to pass the leader at daytona, probably need a change to the cars. it shouldn't be easy, but shouldn't be impossible. really, they didn't even get close. 489. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) and as I have said for the 4th or 5th time this season Congratulations to Jimmie Johnson for winning his 6th title, 2013 Champion 490. JRacingfast posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey lets all be morons and crash twice on the last lap.....thanks NASCAR....thanks drivers.....i want my early 2000's NASCAR back 491. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ba Humbug! Some really hard hits in the second wreck coming to the finish, glad everyone's okay. 492. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (5) Jimmie Johnson swept Daytona this year...Well, at least Kyle Busch got in that crash at the checkered flag. 493. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (5) (1) Coming soon to DVD: Out Of Gas The story of NASCAR's Demise. 494. JRacingfast posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ooh and p.s. * insert fart noise here* 495. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (10) (0) Look at the crowd just standing there lifelessly as JJ climbs out of his car. No fists raised in triump. No middle fingers raised in anger. Just standing there. Can't even get any cheers or jeers for his burnout. He is undoubtably the worst thing ever to happen to NASCAR. He is why the backstretch won't even attempt to sell tickets. He is why "the world center of racing" is undergoing a redesign for more "fan friendliness" when the truth is it is to reduce seating by 50 grand. He is why so many bleachers that were once filled to the brim are covered by huge banners. 496. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Oh, and Michael Waltrip got his second top-five finish in the three races he's competed in this year. 497. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Another prediction: Johnson will be the third driver ever to reach 100 career wins, and he will end up surpassing David Pearson for second on NASCAR's all time win list... 498. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, if you put it that way, murb, then I won't. 499. Mr X posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica just came down on the 38 of David Gilliland and caused that wreck it appears. Again lots of hard hits, it appears all is well for those involved though. Glad there is only one more plate race this year, it often works as a spectacle, but it is often terrifying as well. It's not real racing. 500. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) "seems like its near impossible to pass the leader at daytona, probably need a change to the cars. it shouldn't be easy, but shouldn't be impossible. really, they didn't even get close. " I don't know if it is any leader. Jimmie Johnson has been twice as good as the 2nd best car the last 5 straight oval races. He is a cheater. His crew chief is a cheater. His crew are all cheaters. His owner is a cheater. His car is as illegal as it gets and they are either finding away to hide it from NASCAR or NASCAR has extremely deep pockets thanks to those running the 48 team. That shove that Harvick gave Stewart would have been good enough to pass 42 other cars. 501. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Well, congrats on your boy winning this one, NLA. You must be elated that we're all depressed about how this sport is swirling in Brian France's toilet bowl right now." He's not "my boy," I just don't hate or dislike the guy. There are many drivers I would have rather seen win this race. When I said "IF there's a positive about tonight's race, it's that the best car won" what I really mean is there's not a positive about this race. 502. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think I made a bad move tonight" well, considering you were in the lead for the race its hard to screw up 503. AveryNH posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) I don't care how bitter this sounds but if Jimmie wins next week it will be the last nascar race I ever attend. 504. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Let me just say one thing before I get called out. The reason I say that this sport is "swirling in Brian France's toilet bowl" isn't because of Jimmie winning this. The sanctioning body's inconsistency with their rulings is just disgusting. Just like Baker was saying, one week they will let them race back to the line, and the next they will just throw the caution and end the race. MAKE UP YOUR GOD DAMN MINDS, NASCAR. And then of course there was the whole "flap-gate" incident this weekend. If SIXTEEN teams have illegal roof flaps, that's not the teams cheating. It's the sanctioning body not being clear enough about what is legal and what isn't. I'm just tired of the inconsistency they show in their race calls (the restarts, the debris cautions, the "racing back to the caution" thing). It's just a joke. 505. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Seeing how far downhill NASCAR is going makes me wonder if the sport will cease to exist within 25 years... 506. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) "I don't know if I made a bad move all night. I am pretty proud of that." 1. What an arrogant sack of garbage. 2. What about the stunt you pulled that could have killed your teammate ahole? 507. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Look at the crowd just standing there lifelessly as JJ climbs out of his car. No fists raised in triump. No middle fingers raised in anger. Just standing there. Can't even get any cheers or jeers for his burnout. He is undoubtably the worst thing ever to happen to NASCAR. He is why the backstretch won't even attempt to sell tickets. He is why "the world center of racing" is undergoing a redesign for more "fan friendliness" when the truth is it is to reduce seating by 50 grand. He is why so many bleachers that were once filled to the brim are covered by huge banners." Exactly. Jimmie Johnson isn't a driver you can love or love to hate. He's just....bleh. 508. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When was the last time a single team had the dominant car in 5 straight oval races? 509. Anonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well, at least Kyle Busch got in that crash at the checkered flag." Still finished 12th 510. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Jimmie Johnson "i dont think i made a single wrong move all night " dude you caused your teammate to wreck 511. epzik8 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I don't see anybody leaving from the frontstretch grandstands as TNT interviews Clint Bowyer. 512. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Here's something for those of you who say "Oh TNT shows so many commercials! They miss things! I wish we had CBS back!": Go watch some of the old CBS broadcasts (especially 1996 Trucks at Louisville) - or ESPN, yes "classic" ESPN - or anyone. What will you see? Lots of commericals, missed restarts, no replays of accidents - all the same things that are complained about today and that everyone says "we wish we had the old coverage back, they didn't do that then". They did. 513. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "He's not "my boy," I just don't hate or dislike the guy. There are many drivers I would have rather seen win this race. When I said "IF there's a positive about tonight's race, it's that the best car won" what I really mean is there's not a positive about this race." I understand. I just thought it was total bullshit how you made that derogatory Kenseth comment after you are always harping on us for Anti-48 comments. And then of course you made the "ignore user" comment to Baker (I agree that Baker says questionable things from time to time, but in this argument he was actually making valid points). I have respect for you, you're certainly not a troll, and you clearly have a lot of knowledge. But some of your comments just piss me off. Sorry, but that's how it is. 514. jabber1990 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if HMS has that "Sgt. Bilko" disorder, when NASCAR is watching them they seem to see stuff, but they distract them and destroy the evidence and if they do get caught they are all "well all be damned" and they play innocent so that they don't get caught 515. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CBS was bad not only because of commercials but also because of missed final laps due to Basketball Games and Cancer Kid runs on local affiliates in major markets. Commentary team was awesome though. 516. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Coming soon to DVD: Out Of Gas The story of NASCAR's Demise." Ben, this was hilarious. Lightened my mood a ton. 517. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF is right NASCAR is so mismanaged that it would take the sport being rebooted with fresh faces in charge to even have a chance and turning things around. 518. JimmieJohnsonFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Yes! 519. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (5) Auto Racing in the United States is generally doomed, at all levels. 520. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Oh God, not a Michael Waltrip interview. Great. Just great. That makes this night PERFECT. 521. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroder this sport might collapse within 10 years. 522. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) NASCAR has fallen to WCW 2000 levels of incompetence & laziness 523. John Royal posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'll get to bed and dream about JD Stacy buying Hendrick Motorsports. 524. Jim Davis posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 10 for Mears, top 20 for Terry Labonte. 525. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR has made one boneheaded move after another and it keeps getting worse and worse. 526. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NASCAR declining TV ratings and attendance, Indycar invisible except the 500 which is at record low levels of interest, Entirely Empty short tracks, AMA pro all but dead, Sports cars now under NASCAR control. It's inevitable. 527. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And there is the third in NASCAR's unholy Triple Crown. What a night. 528. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kurt Busch is top 10 in points and Casey Mears got a top 10. If there's anything at all positive to take away from this race.... 529. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Comical that people don't think Auto racing in the states is doomed. 530. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (5) (4) I'm going to get so many thumbs down for this, but we might be watching the greatest NASCAR race car driver there ever will be. I think it's cool seeing it. I'm not a fan of him personally but when I'm old and gray I might be able to tell my grand children that I got to see the greatest NASCAR driver ever. I know now everyone on the board throws up. And sure Hendrick's equipment is amazing and they are huge cheaters. But if he wins 10 or 11 were going to have to take it into deep, deep consideration. Everyone can hate about how Jimmie isn't even one of the top 5 drivers because of his equipment, Hendrick cheating, less competition whatever. MATT KENSETH: 'People can say whatever they want about him, but I don't know how you can't say that he's not the best ever,' said Matt Kenseth. 'You look at what he's done with (crew chief) Chad (Knaus) since they've been over here and nobody has ever put up numbers like that. I don't want to make it sound like I'm in love with Jimmie I just don't think he get's enough praise for his success. 531. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) You know, I see all these "the race was horrible, NASCAR is doomed" comments, and I wonder two things: First, if anybody was actually watching the same race I was, and secondly, that if auto racing /does/ die off, it won't be for lack of good racing (particularly at short-track level) but because of the Instant Gratification Video Game Generation that thinks the 2013 Indy 500 was the very model of a modern major motorsports event. (When in fact it was a farce that made me reach for the Donny Lia bucket.) 532. JimmieJohnsonFan posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) "If there's anything at all positive to take away from this race...." My driver won for the 64th time. 533. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No DSFF it ain't a triple crown its a quadruple crown of diarrhea. 534. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) The last few years Clint Bowyer has really been growing on me. I really don't understand why he doesn't have more fans. He is a REAL guy. He is down to earth having fun racing. He is a very respectable guy in interviews. He speaks well and you can really sense his true enjoyment he gets from racing. He is bit of a throw back racer in a time where fans hate that NASCAR is getting away from its past. He doesn't whine half as much as most of the other "stars" in the sport today. 535. 13 posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well Epzik8, i would be sitting there with my face in my hands wondering what better i could had done rather than come see JJ win, say get a root canal, read the dictionary, or even twiddle my damn thumbs 536. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) No NASCAR Victory Lane, fireworks at the end of the race is not what we got. "Fireworks" means a last lap close pass for the win and half the top 10 filled with underdogs, that's what the fans want as "fireworks." The "Fireworks" we got were 2 wrecks and zero attempts to make a pass for the win, coupled with Casey Mears and Michael Waltrip being the only underdogs to be found. 537. David posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ben Lowe, we need you here. We've all been low (pun totally intended) on the sport, including right now, and your comments are funny in a sad way. They remind me of Tony Stewart's Talladega rant last year. Constant deadpanning. We will eventually get over this. I hope. 538. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This season started out as promising, has now quickly escalated in to depressing crap. Even Sonoma wasn't much of a fun race that it usually is. For like the 5th oval race in a row, the 48 is yet again is untouchable. But most of it this race had to do with this crapbag package NASCAR currently has in place for Daytona. These cars cannot bump-draft at all which makes whoever is leading untouchable just like in the 90's. NASCAR needs to increase the spoiler back to the way it was before they lessened it in attempt to eliminate the tandem-draft. This new car doesn't have the perfectly matched front & rear bumpers like the COT so the tandem shouldn't be an issue. Pretty sad when most of the highlights during this mind numbing race were the wrecks & making fun of the commercials. I give this race a -1.5/10* *Automatic Johnson-Win 5 Point Deduction. 539. joey2448 posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Usually I say let 'em race back to the line if there's a wreck on the final lap, but this one was questionable. I think that NASCAR actually made the right decision in letting them race back to the finish, even though there was a second wreck on the frontstretch. The reason I say that is because of where the first wreck took place. Because the crash happened in turns one and two (and the cars came to rest in turn two, closer to the backstretch), the leaders would have been slowed up enough after taking the checkers that it wouldn't have presented a danger. Of course, it looks like a clusterf**k because there was a second crash on the frontstretch, so maybe NASCAR should have thrown the caution. I though David Gilliland was going to be the guy that pushed the winner to the front for the second straight plate race. As it was, he ended up being the guy that turned Danica to start the final crash at the line. Boy, Michael Waltrip sure knows how to moonlight in the plate races! And, Casey Mears earns a top-10! As much as I dislike Jimmie Johnson, I still thought this was a pretty good race. I know y'all are bashing this and saying it's a terrible race, but I enjoyed most of it (except for ALL the commercials). Sure, the current plate package still needs tweaking at Daytona (it seems to fit well at Talladega). 540. Rusty posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't care what anyone says, the command to start engines was the worst thing tonight. Also, Kurt Busch and the 78 team....top 10 in points. Really happy to see that, jus wish the 38 could've stayed attached to Kurt going into turn one on the last lap, he may have won... 541. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I understand. I just thought it was total bullshit how you made that derogatory Kenseth comment after you are always harping on us for Anti-48 comments. And then of course you made the "ignore user" comment to Baker (I agree that Baker says questionable things from time to time, but in this argument he was actually making valid points). I have respect for you, you're certainly not a troll, and you clearly have a lot of knowledge. But some of your comments just piss me off. Sorry, but that's how it is." I can see how that Kenseth comment would be seen that way. I just think it's funny how when Johnson wins, everyone's depressed and doubting the future of the sport while when other drivers win just as much, they're celebrated, so I really don't think it's about winning too much like some people say. As for the "ignore user" comment, I have no regrets at all and I seriously meant what I said, though I am sure many people think the same about me. I'm sorry again for my abrasive comments, but I certainly don't mean anything personal or to offend anyone. It seems I've been apologizing a lot since I started commenting here so I'll really have to exercise more self-control from now on. 542. Ryan posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Auto racing isn't doomed its just not going to be as relevant as it used to be like horse racing and boxing 543. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I see all these "the race was horrible, NASCAR is doomed" comments" First of all, the race wasn't horrible (it was okay, better than the 500, but definitely one of the worst of this year), and secondly, in my opinion Nascar just keeps shooting themselves in the foot. The restrictor plate package sucks, they can't even give teams the correct information (flap-gate), and they are ridiculously inconsistent with their rulings on restarts and racing back to the caution. In a lot of people's eyes, all those things correlate to being doomed. 544. Schroeder51 posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to say it, but TeamPlayersBlue is right. I don't think auto racing in America has a bright future ahead of it. Outside of NASCAR going into the toilet, the young people of today for the large part just do not care for the sport at all. The overwhelming majority of people of my generation have a goldfish's attention span or worse. If there's not total non-stop action every single second, it's boring to them. Obviously I'm not going to lump everybody into that group since I know there are plenty of people here my age or younger, but I'm just saying in general. So the people who have developed an interest in NASCAR will be driven away either by the gimmickiness, Jimmie Johnson domination, or once they find out that there isn't total non-stop action going on every minute of every single race. Nobody else is interested in the other major racing series because either they've never heard of them, or, as I said, they find them boring because there isn't action going on every single second. Sad to say, but I can REALLY see there being no more major motorsports in America within 50 years...or even less. 545. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) >a last lap close pass for the win Because to be a good race you have to have a margin of victory meaured with a micrometer, of course. Heaven forbid somebody have a dominant car. >and half the top 10 filled with underdogs At which point they stop being underdogs and start being "just plain drivers". If Goliath keeps getting beat up on by David, you stop rooting for David after awhile. 546. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) The 2013 Indy 500 was NOT a farce, it was a classic race, but it got the lowest TV ratings in the event's televised history. Not exactly sure about the "video game" or whatever you call it, generation's opinion of it. Probably because 95% of them weren't watching it, just like 90% probably don't watch NASCAR. Do you blame them? There is plenty of great racing around in all forms of motorsport across the country, including NASCAR, that's not what I'm saying. How many short traks have closed down? Even more racing teams have closed down. Just look at the number of motorsports that have T.V. deals now compared to 2000, Tennis has a niche channel in the U.S. but has of August Motorsport won't, if that doesn't send red flags then you are foolish. 547. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Auto racing isn't doomed its just not going to be as relevant as it used to be like horse racing and boxing Boxing? That still exists? [/only slightly joking as you hear about nothing but MMA anymore...another example "sport" pandering to the video game generation] 548. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) >The 2013 Indy 500 was NOT a farce, it was a classic race From my view, passing every lap does NOT make for a good race, it makes for a circus, and when you have the competition "equalised" to the point the only strategy involved is trying not to be the leader halfway down the frontstretch to the finish line because you're a sitting duck, then you have to start seriously asking if the series should be put out of its misery while it still has some faint claim to still being a sport. 2013 Texas >>> 2013 Indy, and may the downpour of thumb-downs commence. 549. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ryan, that's basically what I meant, sorry if by 'doomed' you think I mean it will finish entirely, which it surely won't. 550. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Because to be a good race you have to have a margin of victory measured with a micrometer, of course. Heaven forbid somebody have a dominant car." "At which point they stop being underdogs and start being "just plain drivers". If Goliath keeps getting beat up on by David, you stop rooting for David after awhile." I was referring explicitely to the plate races, that's what they're there for. Close finishes, last lap passes, and underdogs pulling off upsets. By plate racing standards Daytona has been awful this year, our only saving grace has been David Ragan 551. Neal posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) James Buescher ran the entire Nationwide race on the same left side tires and Jimmie won tonight on old tires when damn near everyone behind him took two. I'm sorry, you can have all the mid-pack passes you want but when it's follow the goddamn leader (on old tires) up front, I'd rather have tandem drafts. The combination of this fast but aero-bound garbage Gen6 chassis and Goodyear's concrete tires sucks. Take the stupid splitter off and raise the front valance so there's 10-12 inches of dead space between the front bumper and the track. These snug-nose chassis produce terrible racing. 552. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think auto racing in America has a bright future ahead of it. Outside of NASCAR going into the toilet, the young people of today for the large part just do not care for the sport at all." I'm 18 and I don't know many people at all who like it. They all find it extremely boring. I don't see NASCAR going away in 50 years. I still think it will be more popular than boxing or horse racing. But not by much. The geniuses that run NASCAR now definitely aren't helping. I know this is a weird concept but wouldn't be cool for some weird reason if someone on the internet did a "approval rating" for the people in charge of sports? Like NASCAR, NBA, NFL etc. I would love to see if Brian got above 2%. Maybe a popular website could have a "approve" or "disapprove" option for each manager of a professional sport series in America. 553. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think racing back to the checkered is as good of an idea at Daytona as at Talladega because the racing surface is narrower and we've previously seen several wrecks after wrecks already occurred like tonight. 554. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "Heaven forbid somebody have a dominant car." Forgot to touch on this. It's a plate race, no one should have a dominant car. No one. At all. Period. 555. Kenny posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Well I fell numb to jemmie winning but I just wanna think you all for hateing jemmie as much as me so thanks you guys thank you all do much :) 556. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Amazingly, despite the economic hell they are facing Auto Racing is still alive in well in Europe and is increasing in prominence in the Pacific. F1 still gets 40-50% market shares in European nations, Le Mans is on the uprising (the biggest uprising of any motorsport currently) and has the highest viewership and attendance it has had since the pre-dark ages of 1991-1996, MotoGP is as popular as ever, and National championships, especially GT and Bike series are stronger than they ever have been. 557. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) >I'd rather have tandem drafts. I saw it coming when there was hue and cry over the tandems. The fans got what they asked for... Really, in my opinion, a lot of the problem is the splitter. You watch the 1992-1996 races, and you see the cars with the nose of the car way up off the ground - and the racing was good. Starting when the Taurus was introduced we started to see the glue-the-nose-to-the-ground start to take over and, well, that was when "aero push" became a household cussword. I understand why the splitter was introduced - to stop teams scraping the air dam on the track and bending the minimum-height rules with front springs made from Jell-O - but it was treating the symptom, not the disease. 558. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) >It's a plate race, no one should have a dominant car. No one. At all. Period. Why? 559. FloridaFan88 posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) I think Jimmie Johnson would get more respect as a 2-time champion (like he really is) than a 5-time Cha$e winner. 560. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I agree. Get rid of the splitter. 561. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) After tonight's race, I'd LOVE to see the tandem configuration back at Talladega. At least the races had some element of excitement. 562. Sky Warrior posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ">It's a plate race, no one should have a dominant car. No one. At all. Period. Why?" Because the whole point of plate racing is to restrict the horsepower of the engines. Neither track requires much braking except to draft, and neither is enough of a handling track to give someone with a good handling car enough of an advantage to be dominant 563. Paul posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) I muted the tv just before Johnson's interview because I didn't want to get anymore frustrated that I already was (favorite drivers get wrecked, least favorite driver wins, internet went out just as race ended). Looks like I dodged a bullet there. Don't worry, Johnson will likely be dodging us (decline an interview) the next time he makes a mistake and doesn't win. I'll admit, I've always pulled for Mikey as a driver, as he's always been somewhat of an underdog, and I'm pretty happy that he got a top five out of this race. Say what you want about his announcing career or his personality, but the man knows how to get it done on these restrictor plate tracks. Welcome back to the top ten, Casey Mears. He gets his first top ten finish since 2009 when he was driving for RCR. I knew that team would bring home a good finish like that sooner or later, and I just wish his car hadn't gotten torn up like it did. Check out Kurt Busch sitting 9th in the points. Forget trying to make the Chase as a wildcard, he might just make the Chase the natural way. I was hoping that push he got from David Gilliland on the last lap would send him to the lead, but I'll settle for a 6th place finish and a top ten points position. It just wouldn't be a big race without Danica wrecking. Not sure if she was told she was clear of Gilliland when she wasn't or if she just changed lanes coming to the line, but that last lap wreck could have been avoided Good finishes for J.J. Yeley, Travis Kvapil, and Terry Labonte as well. Also, it looks like Stenhouse will have to go another week searching for top ten #1. 564. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 83andJoe, people watch sports to be entertained and a lot people find close competition. That seems to be a problem for you. This doesn't just apply to auto racing, either. I go to an SEC school and hardly anyone goes to the games we know we are gonna dominate because we don't find them entertaining (although with out 3-9 season last year that wasn't much of a problem...we just didn't go at all.) 565. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 83andJoe, people watch sports to be entertained and a lot people find close competition entertaining. That seems to be a problem for you. This doesn't just apply to auto racing, either. I go to an SEC school and hardly anyone goes to the games we know we are gonna dominate because we don't find them entertaining (although with out 3-9 season last year that wasn't much of a problem...we just didn't go at all.) 566. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) >I agree. Get rid of the splitter. You have to do more than that - you have to do something along the lines of mandating front spring strength (or spec front springs?), or ditching the splitter will just take you right back to where things were with the Gen-4 car, with cars scraping the front air dam everywhere and aero push out the wazzoo. Of course, F1 found a very simple solution to a similar problem back in the 90s when teams were bending the ride-height rules into a pretzel with super-soft suspensions: they bolted a 1" thick plank of wood underneath every car and checked the wear after the race on every car, and if there was more than a certain amount of wear, it was an automatic DQ... 567. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry about the double post...don't know what happened there. 568. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) >83andJoe, people watch sports to be entertained and a lot people find close competition. That seems to be a problem for you. I don't mind close competition, I just hate the mentality that there HAS to be close competition or it's the worst thing since Joey Logano's hype. Yes, people watch sports for entertainment, but it needs to be a SPORT first and foremost. If it's not then it's no different than a Lifetime Original Movie. 569. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I don't mind close competition, I just hate the mentality that there HAS to be close competition or it's the worst thing since Joey Logano's hype. Yes, people watch sports for entertainment, but it needs to be a SPORT first and foremost. If it's not then it's no different than a Lifetime Original Movie." If you don't have a problem with close competition, then why do you have so much animosity towards the 2013 Indy 500. I thought it was one of the best races I'd ever seen. 570. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "83andJoe, people watch sports to be entertained and a lot people find close competition. That seems to be a problem for you. This doesn't just apply to auto racing, either. I go to an SEC school and hardly anyone goes to the games we know we are gonna dominate because we don't find them entertaining (although with out 3-9 season last year that wasn't much of a problem...we just didn't go at all.)" The NFL is the most popular league in America and they have had nothing but dynasties. There have only about 5 teams with NBA titles in the last 15 years. Baseball's doing fine and it's had seasons where the Yankees winning the World Series was a foregone conclusion. NASCAR reached its peak as Gordon started dominating. Usually a dominant force is good for a sport because it leads to legions of bandwagon fans and legions of haters. For whatever reason (boring, plastic, cheater), Jimmie Johnson hasn't attracted the legion of bandwagon fans, only the haters, and all the haters came from the sport's already existent fan base. 571. 12345Dude posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Everyone seems so upset about the state of NASCAR and Jimmie Johnson. I have some news that will cheer everyone up. New Hampshire is TNT's last race. For the rest of the year we are going to get ESPN doing the races and.....Rusty Wallace. There first race is going to be Indianapolis. That race is going to be flat flying! 572. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >If you don't have a problem with close competition, then why do you have so much animosity towards the 2013 Indy 500. I thought it was one of the best races I'd ever seen. Because there's a difference between close competition that comes as being part of a sport, and a three-ring circus that comes as a result of manufactured equality, and 68 lead changes in a 200 lap race is a three-ring circus. 573. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) (not to mention it's held up as a "all races should be like this!" model. Pass me the Donny Lia bucket.) 574. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Everyone seems so upset about the state of NASCAR and Jimmie Johnson. I have some news that will cheer everyone up. New Hampshire is TNT's last race. For the rest of the year we are going to get ESPN doing the races and.....Rusty Wallace. There first race is going to be Indianapolis. That race is going to be flat flying! " I honestly can't tell who is worse, the ESPN crew or the FOX crew. 575. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, people watch sports for entertainment, but it needs to be a SPORT first and foremost." I get what you're saying, but could you maybe clarify a bit more on what you mean by "sport"? Because I've always thought that "sport" basically meant the same thing as "competitive" or "competition". 576. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The NFL is the most popular league in America and they have had nothing but dynasties. There have only about 5 teams with NBA titles in the last 15 years. Baseball's doing fine and it's had seasons where the Yankees winning the World Series was a foregone conclusion. NASCAR reached its peak as Gordon started dominating. Usually a dominant force is good for a sport because it leads to legions of bandwagon fans and legions of haters. For whatever reason (boring, plastic, cheater), Jimmie Johnson hasn't attracted the legion of bandwagon fans, only the haters, and all the haters came from the sport's already existent fan base." Those aren't exactly the same though because there are dozens of NBA, MLB games per week to watch and about 15 NFL games every week so you aren't forced to watch the Yankees or the Heat or the Patriots dominate each and every week. You have more options to find something that interests you. There's only one NASCAR Sprint Cup race and if you are a NASCAR fan you have to watch Jimmie Johnson dominate each and every week. Plus, all of the other sports have local/regional fan bases built in, whereas NASCAR has to appeal to a national audience. Also, as has been discussed before, Jimmie Johnson just doesn't stir up passions of extreme like or hatred the way the Heat, Yankees, or Jeff Gordon did/does. That's where the big problem is...Johnson is the face of the sport at the present time, but it's hard to love and it's hard to love to hate him. Compare that to Kyle Busch who also has a lot of haters but he's made that part of his persona. 577. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I have some news that will cheer everyone up. New Hampshire is TNT's last race." And I have some news that will stifle any of that cheer. The week after that, BSPN takes over. "For the rest of the year we are going to get ESPN doing the races and.....Rusty Wallace." Wallace is the only reasonably smart person who broadcasts for ESPN nowadays, other than Dale Jarrett. "There first race is going to be Indianapolis. That race is going to be flat flying!" The only flying that'll be going around at Indy will be in my dreams, as I'll almost assuredly be bored to sleep by Jimmie Johnson dominating a Brickyard race YET AGAIN. 578. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb: What I mean by "sport" is "allowed to flow naturally among the competitors, even if the direction the competition takes isn't necessarily the best from an entertainment standpoint". I.E. if you start taking actions to "spice up the show", the "sport--------entertainment" slider starts shifting more to the "entertainment" side. Now, it's possible to spice up the show and still be enjoyable as a sport (see also Arena Football) but it's very very hard. 579. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I honestly can't tell who is worse, the ESPN crew or the FOX crew." Right now, it's gotta be Fox. This year it seemed like they took piss poor coverage and gimmick fests to an entirely new level. ESPN is pretty bad (mainly because of Brad Daugherty, the pit studio, and their terrible pit reporters), but at least the guys in the booth focus on the actual racing for most of the race. 580. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Second half predictions. Jimmie Johnson will lead 130+ laps of the 160 lap Brickyard 400 and win. Jimmie Johnson will win 7 of the Chase races on his way to his 6th championship. Jimmie Johnson will win 11 of the next 18 for a new modern era record of 15 wins in a season. Jimmie Johnson kills all hope for 2014 and NASCAR suffers its largest decline in history from one season to the next. 19. Loudon :: Kevin Harvick 20. Indianapolis :: Jimmie Johnson 21. Pocono :: Jimmie Johnson 22. Watkins Glen :: Marcos Ambrose 23. Michigan :: Jimmie Johnson 24. Bristol :: Matt Kenseth 25. Atlanta :: Jimmie Johnson 26. Richmond :: Kyle Busch 27. Chicago :: Jimmie Johnson 28. Loudon :: Clint Bowyer 29. Dover :: Jimmie Johnson 30. Kansas :: Jimmie Johnson 31. Charlotte :: Jimmie Johnson 32. Talladega :: Jimmie Johnson 33. Martinsville :: Jimmie Johnson 34. Texas :: Matt Kenseth 35. Phoenix :: Jimmie Johnson 36. Homestead :: Kasey Kahne 581. The Long Shot posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look, I'll make this simple. Which would you rather see: a race that has limited passing where only 7-8 cars have any sort of shot at winning the race, or a race with a lot of passing where 25 cars have a reasonable chance at winning? Call me crazy, but I'd take the latter any day. 582. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I'll take any kind of racing that doesn't involve Jimmie Johnson at this point. 583. cjs3872 posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 13, not only that, but Johnson made a boneheaded move that led to that crash when he, for some unexplained reason, moved up in front of Marcos Ambrose, which gave Kasey Kahne the inside, and almost cost him the race. I keep bringing this up, but for as good as Jimmie Johnson is, he keeps making mistakes. He should have stayed in front of Kahne, and if he got beat, so be it, at least he got beat by cars going the long way around. But instead, he made the mistake of giving Kahne the bottom. Then, he tried to block every line at once, and it almost cost him when Ambrose tried to go through the middle when he ran Ambrose into Kahne. He could just as easily have spun himself out, and if he had, how dumb would he have looked then? Again, for someone so great, Jimmie sure makes a lot of errors, though he got away with his tonight. And speaking of dumb things, why did Trevor Bayne just back totally out of it when that first crash happened on the final lap, because he was in the top ten when that happened, but by backing off like he did, he ended up in that mayhem at the finish. And is it me, or is Tony Stewart beginning to send subtle little messages to his competitors that he's not to be forgotten about in the championship fight. Unlike Jeff Gordon, who I believe has peaked this season (he's only in contention because everyone around him except Stewart and Kurt Busch were involved in wrecks, because I believe he's in no way a real contender to make the Chase), I think Stewart is showing that he's going to have to be reckoned with before this season is over. And although Kurt Busch has entered the top ten in points, I don't think he can stay there, because his team will let him down in some way, shape, or form, though how they'll let him down, I don't know. But that last position or two in the Chase is a revolving door, and I still like Brad Keselowski to get the 12th spot, because we know the #78 team won't be able to stay up there, but I still like everyone else from 6th-12th to make it. 584. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright, I get it 83andJoe. Thanks for elaborating. "Wallace is the only reasonably smart person who broadcasts for ESPN nowadays, other than Dale Jarrett." I think Andy Petree offers good analysis too, and I also think Allen Bestwick is actually the best play by play commentator in Nascar by far (Mike Joy seems to be just phoning it in nowadays, and Adam Alexander is average at best). The main thing about ESPN that sucks is Brad Daugherty, Nicole Briscoe, Ray Evernham when they have him on there, and their terrible pit road crew (except for Dr. Jerry Punch). "The only flying that'll be going around at Indy will be in my dreams, as I'll almost assuredly be bored to sleep by Jimmie Johnson dominating a Brickyard race YET AGAIN." Since Montoya has been good this year, I have faith that hopefully he'll be one of the guys to beat there. I'm sure the 48 will be strong too, but I know that Montoya is great there and he will mix it up with Jimmie if he has a fast enough car. 585. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TLS - The devil is, as they say, in the details. But, as a rule, I would prefer the FORMER, as if there's 25 cars capable of winning then the field has been tilted by the rules to make it that way. Looking at IndyCar at the moment, for instance - everyone was making such a big deal about how good it was Penske and Ganassi were being shut out of victory lane, with so many underdogs having a shot to win every week. But how does David winning mean anything if Goliath never gets the laurels? 586. TS1420 posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Look at the crowd just standing there lifelessly as JJ climbs out of his car. No fists raised in triump. No middle fingers raised in anger. Just standing there. Can't even get any cheers or jeers for his burnout. He is undoubtably the worst thing ever to happen to NASCAR. He is why the backstretch won't even attempt to sell tickets. He is why "the world center of racing" is undergoing a redesign for more "fan friendliness" when the truth is it is to reduce seating by 50 grand. He is why so many bleachers that were once filled to the brim are covered by huge banners." This is one of the reasons why I consider Johnson to be the worst driver with "Legend" credentials. Most of the fans are just apathetic to him, which in turn makes them apathetic to the sport and makes them tune out & stop going to races. 587. 83andJoe posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >And speaking of dumb things, why did Trevor Bayne just back totally out of it when that first crash happened on the final lap, because he was in the top ten when that happened, but by backing off like he did, he ended up in that mayhem at the finish. I suspect Bayne (rather reasonably) anticipated a caution when the first crash happened, hence the backing out. 588. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus have both claimed in post race interviews they made no contact with Ambrose...Are they lying, misinformed, high, or just plain stupid? 589. murb posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Are they lying, misinformed, high, or just plain stupid?" The answer is E): Arrogant. 590. Baker posted: 07.06.2013 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) "Jimmie Johnson and Chad Knaus have both claimed in post race interviews they made no contact with Ambrose...Are they lying, misinformed, high, or just plain stupid? " Are you kidding me? They are the 2 biggest liars in the garage. I don't believe either of them could talk for 3 minutes without spewing lies. 591. 83andJoe posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #10 sponsor: GoDaddy Start With .US #15 sponsor: Blue DEF/Peak Motor Oil #18 sponsor: Interstate All Battery Center #32 sponsor: C&J Energy Services #33 sponsor: Circle Sport #47 sponsor: Scott Products/Clorox #78 sponsor: Furniture Row/Beautyrest #99 sponsor: Subway Aahvocado! 592. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The main thing about ESPN that sucks is Brad Daugherty, Nicole Briscoe, Ray Evernham when they have him on there, and their terrible pit road crew (except for Dr. Jerry Punch)." All I can say is thank God, Allah, Ganesh, cjs, or whoever your god is that Marty Reid is no longer broadcasting Cup races. It's bad enough to have to listen to him during IndyCar and occasionally Nationwide events. We don't need his idiocy in Cup, too. 593. David posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) David Gilliland told Danica to shut up and drive, and she did; right across his nose. 594. 83andJoe posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:06 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Note to the Webmaster: Landon Cassill currently has 0 points (and is unofficially 58th in the standings right now), as he switched to Busch Series points for the year (and thus had the points earned while he has Cup as his series of record nulled). 595. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A silver lining to the season: the race to the chase should be pretty exciting. Not necessarily the races themselves as I am fully expecting Jimmie Johnson to dominate almost all of them, but seeing who gets in and gets left out to dry should be interesting. 596. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Positions 9-16 in points are separated by just 20 points. Zackary's right: it will be exciting. 597. Baker posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No one else really cares but I am going to post it anyway. Tony Stewart moves into sole possession of 11th all time in runner up finishes with his 43 career 2nd place run tonight. 598. 83andJoe posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now, for something completely different that is confusing the heck out of me right now: are Dave Fuge and Dave Fuge, Jr. different people (presumably father and son) or is there just one Dave Fuge the crew chief and sometimes they use the "Jr." in reports and sometimes they don't? 599. ch posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Goliath keeps getting beat up on by David, you stop rooting for David after awhile." If, in ten+ years from now, TBR or FRM EVER becomes as dominant as Hendrick / Gibbs, I will have NO problem with it since I have been following them since the beginning. Plus I'll have other David's to root for by then as well, so win win. 600. 83andJoe posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) ch- You /completely/ missed my point. Said point being that if nobody is dominant, /there are no underdogs/. 601. ch posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Changes: 10 - GoDaddy: Start With .US 15 - Blue DEF Diesel Exhaust Fluid / Peak Motor Oil 18 - Interstate All Battery Center 20 - Husky Tools 30 - Lean 1 / Winn-Dixie 32 - C&J Energy Services 33 - Circle Sport 78 - Furniture Row / Beautyrest 99 - Subway Aahvocado! The sponsor on the 87 is right, and it should also be Royal Teak Collection for Darlington and Dover. 83andJoe - I see, win-loss then. 602. David posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) It's almost as if NASCAR didn't want to throw the caution for the first crash, because they didn't want to just hand the race to Johnson (and anger the fans). And then he still won it anyway. 603. David posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) *on the last lap* 604. Mr X posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Those were my thoughts as well David. Considering at other times NASCAR has thrown the yellow on the last lap for much smaller instances that may or may not have been further from the point at which the other cars would stop racing, namely the finish line. It did seem like NASCAR was trying to give other drivers a shot at Jimmie. 605. JP88 posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (3) (1) Wow did I tell you that I hate Johnson... I mean the guy is a smug as can be, honestly no respect at all. The fact that he almost found a way to screw it up again, but get bailed out by Kahne slamming the inside wall instead of him getting caught up in it is a joke. Jimmie Johnson...killing NASCAR since 2006. 606. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Since half of the season is over, I am posting my thoughts on the first half and what I think will happen in the second half. Feel free to disagree: Best race so far: Easily the Auto Club 400 in March (never thought I'd see California produce a great race) Honorable mention: Aaron's 499 in May (just a great race from start to finish) Worst race so far: the Pocono 400 in June (just a bad race with hardly any action or passing) Honorable mention: Daytona 500 (same thing) Isn't it funny Johnson won both races? Biggest suprise: Some people may disagree with this, but the fact that Ricky Stenhouse Jr. has failed to post a top 10 so far this year. I knew he'd go through some struggles as a rookie, but I don't know if it's bad luck or just no ability from Ricky to put together a top 10 performance in a race. The following drivers are who I feel will make the chase in September: Jimmie Johnson (enough wins to more than guarantee himself a spot in the chase) Clint Bowyer (consistent enough to stay in the top five, might even get a win or two before the chase) Carl Edwards (has the win and has been consistent this year, but the win in March may be his only one this year) Kevin Harvick (has the two wins to guarantee himself a chase berth and might get another win or two the rest of the season) Dale Earnhardt Jr. (has been able to post enough top 10s to stay away from falling out of the top ten in points and might be able to win at least one race before the year is over, he just needs luck to go his way) Matt Kenseth (consistent AND is able to win many races this year, like Johnson, but needs more cosistent top tens to beat him for the title) Kyle Busch (I think he will be able to stay in the top ten, plus he has those two wins to guarantee himself a chase berth) Tony Stewart (will be able to stay in the top ten, maybe win another race or two this year) Kasey Kahne (will probably win another race to guarantee himself a chase berth and work his way into the top ten by Richmond) Brad Keselowski (will win a race very soon and make it back into the top ten, instead of relying on a wild card) Jeff Gordon (he will win a race soon and begin to have luck go his way into scoring one of the two wild cards and make the chase with ease, but then again that just might be what a majority of the people on here, including myself, want) Greg Biffle (will fall out of the top ten, but still have a wild card berth to get him in the chase) And this may just sound like wishful thinking, but I think Johnson will choke away enough races for Matt Kenseth to win the title in a close championship battle between he and Jimmie at the finale in November. Kenseth has shown that he can challenge Jimmie for the title and he has a history of being able to dominate and not choke away races en route to victories, which I think can work to his advantage, especially in the chase. 607. Anonomys posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Despite being part of the last lap crash, Joe Nemechek gets his best finish of 2013 Sprint Cup season. 608. murb posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:27 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) You've tempted me, Speedworld. Here are my "Halfway Awards" for the season so far. - Race of the Year: Fontana - Driver of the Year: Matt Kenseth (Most people will probably say Johnson, but what Kenseth has done in his first year with a brand new team is just outstanding). - Surprise of the Year: Keselowski's struggles (I knew he could possibly end up having a championship hangover, but they have REALLY been struggling lately). - Jerk of the Year: Jimmie Johnson (He's called out the fans, he's blamed everyone but himself for his on-track blunders, and overall his "I Can Do No Wrong" personality has been raised to a completely new level this year.) - Most Pathetic Moment of the Year: "Cablegate Presented by Fox Sports" at the Coke 600. - "This Is Why I Still Keep Watching Nascar" Moment of the Year: David Ragan leading the Front Row Motorsports 1-2 finish at Talladega. I guess I could also make predictions for what I expect to see in the second half of the season, but maybe I'll wait till tomorrow. 609. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:27 am Rate this comment: (7) (8) I've lost faith in most people on this board after reading these ridiculous comments. The race wasn't even CLOSE to being as bad as the whiners on here are insinuating, they are just angry because Jimmie Johnson won again. Ho hum. The man is a great driver and has a great team around him. Why can't everyone just accept that? The race was pretty good, package still needs some more work but none of you seem to realize that this is a work in progress. The sheer fact that this race was about a million percent better than the 500 should illustrate that. People on here whine and whine and say the sport sucks and that its dying and that they are going to stop watching, yet every week the same people continue to watch the races, continue to post, etc. Its quite hilarious actually. The butthurt around here is just astounding, especially when the 48 is doing well. I might suggest some of you wait a bit before posting on here because 90% of the comments Ive seen just scream of butthurt Johnson haters looking for a place to vent their immediate post race frustrations. This race was objectively decent and a massive improvement over the 500, lets try to hang our hat on that instead of ranting like spoiled children. 610. David posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll post my halfway awards, etc. later this week, most likely in a blog post. 611. David posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) MStall41, speaking for myself, I did not see this race, though I did listen to it. I'm sure it was better overall, judging by some early comments. 612. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) SpeedWorld97, I agree with all your selections for the Chase except for Jeff Gordon. You can't win races I you don't have speed, and regardless of what Jeff says, his cars do not have much speed. If he can get them to handle well, he might sneak in via the top ten in points, but I seriously doubt it. I don't think Jeff even sniffs victory lane this year. Even his second place finish at Sonoma wasn't anywhere near a victory, and that's likely going to be the closest he gets to a win prior to the Chase this year. His only chance is to get into the top ten in points, which I don't think he'll be able to do. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he falls as low as 17th in two or three races (or possibly even lower if he has a DNF at Indy and/or Michigan). However, I do think Keselowski gets in, replacing Kurt Busch, and I think Martin Truex, Jr. gets in. Aside from Keselowski, the only other driver currently outside the Chase I can see getting in is Joey Logano, because he has speed, something Gordon and Ryan Newman don't have. Actually, I think Jamie McMurray has as good a chance at getting in as does Gordon, because even McMurray has speed. And I think Kurt starts spiraling downward soon, not because of him, but rather because of his team, so I don't think he makes it, either. I think 11 of the top 12 are going to get in, with Kurt's #78 being the one exception. 613. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:43 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) It was much better, and was honestly edge-of-your seat exciting at times. This package is continuing to get better. People expected the Gen 6 to be an amazing plate car right off the bat and that's simply not realistic, especially as NASCAR and the teams have been trying to work around the tandem drafting. I have been very very encouraged by the plate races this year. Each one has been an improvement over the last, and NASCAR seems to have hit on something that can provide for pack excitement without the farcical tandems. TL; DR: ITS GETTING THERE. People just have to be willing to accept each race for what it is until they totally get the package nailed down. This goes for the races on the intermediate tracks as well. 614. JimmieJohnsonFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:03 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) I totally understand why JJ is hated so much but i've always liked his killer instinct, and ruthless attitude towards the competition. Johnson's 5 Championships and other victory's he's had may carry an asterisk but he's won so many races that they all can't come from cheating, and he seems like a pretty decent guy. I know he puts the blame on other people when he makes a mistake now and then but he is a very good driver,just not the best or the best ever. I was shocked and happy that he swept Daytona, even though he did wreck Ambrose and Kahne. 615. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:09 am Rate this comment: (2) (1) "I've lost faith in most people on this board after reading these ridiculous comments. The race wasn't even CLOSE to being as bad as the whiners on here are insinuating, they are just angry because Jimmie Johnson won again. Ho hum. The man is a great driver and has a great team around him. Why can't everyone just accept that?" Isn't asking why everyone won't just accept Johnson a bit like asking an Auburn fan why they don't just accept how great Alabama is? The answer is obvious...we don't like him and who ultimately wins a race will play a big role in whether or not people liked the race. The difference is that Alabama vs. Auburn is an example of "good ole fashioned hate" and a rivalry that makes the sport more fun. Johnson, on the other hand, is just meh and has made NASCAR very routine-ish. Compare Johnson to someone like Kyle Busch. Kyle Busch has a lot of haters as well, but he has made that part of his persona so instead of just being a driver the fans hate, he is a driver the fans love to hate. That's the thing about Johnson...he's just such a boring personality, it's like he isn't even worth the hate, And that just makes him so much worse. 616. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:11 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) MStall41, what race were you watching tonight? I didn't think it was that good. Certainly you had a car that towered over the rest of the field, and certainly that didn't make it look good, but this was the second consecutive plate race in which one car was vastly superior to the rest of the field. At Talladega, Matt Kenseth led 142 laps, and tonight Jimmie Johnson led 94 laps, and there was no passing at all up front, except for the first few laps after the restart. But once things got singled out, everyone up front was essentially stuck in place, a fact I blame squarely on the shorter spoiler, because the guys just could not close on the car ahead of them, which resulted in the same single-file action seen at the Daytona 500, and even the race at Talladega for a great deal of it. Basically what's happened is that plate racing has reverted back to what it was in the early 90s, with races where one driver led a majority of the laps because he got up front and nobody could close in on him. Aside from the surprises down near the lower end of the top 10, Daytona was a huge disappointment this year, and unless NASCAR increases the size of the rear spoiler next year, it's going to be more of the same. In 1993, they increased the size of the rear spoiler from 1992, and they had great racing on the plate tracks that year, where the plate racing in 1992 was the worst in the modern restrictor plate-era. I believe all they need to do is to increase the size of the rear spoiler and they'll get back to the ultra-competitive racing seen over the last five years, but the racing at Daytona this year was easily the worst since 2003. 617. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:20 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) cjs, I had low expectations for this race because of how bad the 500 was, and was pleasantly surprised by the increased side by side action and intensity. To me, the race was acceptable, despite not being an outright classic. The most important thing for me was that this race demonstrated significant improvement in racing quality since February. You are of course spot on however when you say they need to increase the spoiler a bit. As you mentioned, they are only a few small tweaks away from having some amazing plate racing. Its taken awhile, but I think we are finally on the road to some good plate racing so long as NASCAR continues to tweak things, which I'm sure they will. 618. 18fan posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:50 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) Johnson made a race-losing move by moving up in front of Ambrose, then went wide off turn 2, allowing Ambrose to get inside of him. Jimmie realized once Ambrose got next to him, Jimmie's chances to win were over. So he turned left and ended up taking out his teammate and damaging Ambrose's car. Also, Tony should have at least been able to make a run at Jimmie with the push he had from Harvick and how far Jimmie was in front of him, but he couldn't. 619. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:41 am Rate this comment: (2) (1) I'm sure no one wants to hear from me, being a Johnson fan and all, but I have several things to say. A). If Austin takes over the Black #3 with the same font, fine. Let him try and carve out his own name. Here's the thing. With Johnson, the Chase, GWC, and all the other stuff that fans of the 90's complained and left about, probably 70 percent of the people watching NASCAR didn't start watching until Post-2003, like me. They will not have the emotional attatchment that Dale Sr's fans had with the machine. Let him take it, fly with it or die with it. B). Motorsports dieing as a whole? Yes, I can easily see it happening. Indycar, while becoming VERY good once again, is near totally ignored. NASCAR is spiraling downward, as much as I hate to admit it, and with the economic re-covery-up-thing, no one is going to local short tracks. Not to mention every 'average' person out there doesn't care as much for sports as, let's say, 10 years ago, because of the insane addiction to Massive Social Media Sites like Facebook *Slam face onto a book*, TWIT-ter, Insta-Grudge *Insta-gram*, and the like. People would rather here and see and gossip about other people's lives then sports people. Before 2007, I could see any terrible thing in motorsports like what we have now as something that could eventually be overcome. But no new fans are coming to anything now. Everyone else is to busy staring into their iPhone 6,307,582 whatever to pay attention to anything else. C). This Race. I was able to see some highlights on youtube, but this computer *or maybe youtube, I don't know*, is really screwed up, showing one frame per second, then leaping 15 seconds ahead while the audio flows normally. So I can't say about the JohnsonVsAmbroseVsKhane. I'm unable to see the crashes, the race, etc. However, I'm happy that Jimmie Johnson is winning. But it's also saddening me. Don't be offended by this, I'm not trying to attack you guys, you are the best motorsports fans I've ever met. However, when Jimmie wins, nearly 85 percent of the viewing audience groans in frustration, or just shrugs and looks back down at their cellphone. He doesn't invoke hatred, the hatred he gets is because people are tired of him dominating. And it hurts, because what I enjoy seeing encourages everyone else to leave. I'm probably the minority of Jimmie Johnson fans. I started watching in 2004, and quickly became a HUGE fan of his. Why? Because for some weird reason, I'm always cheering for the second-place man of whatever-it-is when I start being interested in something, it's like some per-designed destiny for me. Sonic as opposed to Mario in fame. Chocolate instead of Vanilla, Left Vs right, JJ in 2004, by only 8 points! He had caught me with his style and a easy to remember name/number/sponsor/paint scheme. I vividly remember the anger I had as a 'kid' when Johnson lost Atlanta to Edwards in 2005, and the heart-wrenching after Johnson's blown tire at Homestead the same year. While I've been upset with things he's done over the years *Richmond 2011 anyone? Or Dover 2013?*, he has stayed my favorite even as I have matured. Yet, I don't want to see him driving away everyone else. I wish there was some reason I could at least motivate people to hate him with a passion, not hate him for doing what he came into this sport to do, win. Or better yet, motivate the fans to rally behind the man who is dominating the sport and support him, like everyone did for Richard *Dick* Petty, The King, after he won his second championship. But it's not happening. Like with so many other things, I feel that humanity is reaching it's limit with motorsports/video gaming/politics/tolerance/etc. Why? Because now we have traversed so far, we see a HUGE difference from where we came, and think 'Yeah, we don't have duels in Congress anymore. We Don't have E.T. anymore. We don't have Ned Jarret lapping the field 13 some times anymore.* And as a whole, everyone just sits down, content with what little progress they have achieved, and now believe it's time to 'cash in' their check and enjoy mindlessly following others on social media sites. We still have a long ways to go with progress in anything! Controversy, curiosity, contempt, and competition are the four driving forces in humanity! Let us RALLY behind Johnson or Rally against him for reasons other then his consistency! Find something you actually hate him for or love him for! Do the same with other drivers. Let us try, even if it is in vain, to kindle fan fires similar to that of the Petty Vs Pearson Vs Allison Vs Yarbrough days! Jimmie Johnson, without a doubt, will go down as one of the most legendary drivers to ever grace Nascar. Sure. I LOVE that. Same way that Dale. Sr. fans LOVE how he has gone down 'honorably' and as a very legendary driver. But Sr still has people that don't like him, even though they respect him. We can do the same with Johnson for some reason or another! I don't know what, but surely, starting here, we can do it! We could interest others in our 'Petty' *Lawl* fights over who is best, who is the dirtiest, why the driver of car #XX should blow a tire every third lap, etc. It's a seemingly hopeless chance, but it gives up something to do! Let's go for it! And for the record, IF Nascar is still around in 20 years or so, I'm sure I'll be sitting on a couch with kids of my own, and telling them about the legend that was Jimmie Johnson, like my father recalls legends of Bobby Isaac, Bobby Allison, and Richard Petty. 620. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) This is kind of ironic since we were talking about race-fixing, but why is that when Johnson is leading a plate race, usually Daytona, the cars behind intentionally don't try to pass, or is it because of crap like tonight where they know he will intentionally wreck them? I wasn't awake to do my late race "Piss off, Johnson" and see what kind of shit happened? 621. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:16 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I totally understand why JJ is hated so much but i've always liked his killer instinct, and ruthless attitude towards the competition. Johnson's 5 Championships and other victory's he's had may carry an asterisk but he's won so many races that they all can't come from cheating, ****and he seems like a pretty decent guy.I know he puts the blame on other people when he makes a mistake now and then but he is a very good driver,just not the best or the best ever.**** I was shocked and happy that he swept Daytona, even though he did wreck Ambrose and Kahne. " There's the issue. Johnson is actually possibly the disgusting human being in any professional auto racing series right. 622. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Another thought, how many guys have intentionally wrecked their own teammate (Johnson v. Gordon, Johnson v. Kahne) without getting fired? No one EVER. They always end up on the team's shit-list and get fired later for it regardless of who they are... unless they're Prick Spendrick's little pet sabre-tooth tigers Jimmie and Chad. 623. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) And to close my rant, as others have mentioned, isn't odd that every time Johnson screws up a race (about 20-30 occurrences now) he wins the next race? 624. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This really will end the rant, I promise! All the media is wetting themselves because their precious Johnson swept Daytona, the first since 82. I feel like I'm getting molested to even consider that Johnson joins Yarborough, Yarbrough, and Allison as drivers to sweep Daytona. 625. JG24FanForever posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I feel like I'm getting molested to even consider that Johnson joins Yarborough, Yarbrough, and Allison as drivers to sweep Daytona." You forgot Fireball Roberts in 1962. 626. John Royal posted: 07.07.2013 - 6:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting discussion about state of motorsports. I come from Europe and we have Formula One as market leader as you very well know. NASCAR is either unknown, redneck, or stupid left turns. (FYI, I actually wish NASCAR were as redneck as it used to be). Those who actually have watched NASCAR usually point out major issue: Cars look slow. They are surprised of the fact that NASCAR cars travel higher speeds than F1. NASCAR needs to issue this by getting more suspension travel to cars and making ground clearance higher (at front and sides). Stop repaving tracks when they get some character. Paint tracks with dashed lines and dashed walls (like Winston red-white back in days). And then finally address TV camera angles and directing by having track side cameras that are well positioned. Take the roof cam and make it bumper cam. But it might be that people are not that interested of motorsports anymore. It has lost its appeal, or there are better things to do like videogames which offer much higher thrills, safely. But then again weird things happen, American Football is more popular in Finland than ever before. 627. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 07.07.2013 - 6:34 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Total over reaction about Johnson wrecking huis team mate he was just battling Ambrose hard and it was just a racing deal with Kahne wrecks happen on restrictor plates due to close quarter racing end of. 628. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 6:39 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) KFI, stuff like this happens near Johnson on a regular basis. Anyone else looking forward to the PROFESSIONAL auto race in Pocono today (the first pro race there since 1989)? 629. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:39 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) To me, these last 6 races have shown just how much better that car makes Jimmie and Chad look. They have been untouchable in the 5 oval races. As usual, at Sears Point, they were pedestrian. But in the ovals at Dover, Pocono, Michigan, Kentucky, and this race, nobody could even think about running with them. But Jimmie threw Dover away, Chad threw Michigan away (even without the tire failure, they run out of time to catch Biff), then Jimmie AND Chad combined to throw away Kentucky. Then Jimmie made a dumbass move going high in this race, which should have been a throw away move, but he crowded Ambrose into Kahne and bailed himself out. If a young combo like Kenseth and Reiser circa 2000 could have taken over that car in 2002, how many more wins and championships would they have got? I think those two, with that equipment, would collapse every modern era record. Oh well, in about 4 hours we get a REAL race with REAL drivers, Indy Car at Pocono. 630. The Anti-Jimmie posted: 07.07.2013 - 8:01 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'd like to thank Jimmie Johnson for getting me interested in Formula 1. 631. Anthony posted: 07.07.2013 - 8:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Will this be the year Jeff Gordon will miss the chase? While Jimmie continues to be a punk? 632. Unknown posted: 07.07.2013 - 8:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Message to comment above me. Yep. And Yep. 633. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 9:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Why do some of us watch this shit when we are obviously dissatisfied with it and convinced it's not genuine racing from genuine drivers? 634. Jarrett88fan posted: 07.07.2013 - 9:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bring back the tandem, I'm glad I missed this race. Except for the ending of the Talladega race, the Cup RP races have been below average at best. For the remainder of this season, the Nationwide and Truck Series have 85% of my attention. Mid-Ohio, Eldora, Watkins Glen, and Canada Motorsports Park races are better than the Arrogant, Out of Touch with my roots Jimmie Johnson Invitational Cup Series. The 2013 Cup Series season is a replay of 2009 all over again where nobody seriously challenges the #48 team. 635. Dion posted: 07.07.2013 - 9:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nemechek got his first lead lap finish since 2010 636. Daniel posted: 07.07.2013 - 9:50 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) The more I watch Johnson, the more overrated I think he is. I have never seen such a supposedly great driver spin out on his own as much as he does and make as many stupid moves like leaving Kahne on the bottom like he did. 637. The Anti-fan posted: 07.07.2013 - 9:51 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I could have fun with the psychology of some drivers. The fact that Jimmie (not Chad, but Jimmie) seems to get such a thrill and take pleasure in abusing his position, abusing the fans, and acting like he needs to be given a throne, is actually indicative of something extremely twisted in his mind. Google "Narcissistic" and "sadistic" 638. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 10:53 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) It's unfortunate that the two worst things ever to happen to NASCAR had to happen in back-to-back years. We lost Dale Sr. in 2001, and then JJ went into Cup in 2002. 639. loomer posted: 07.07.2013 - 11:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 90's might have been the greatest decade for sports as a whole. It represented a transitional period from television to the internet age. 640. TS1420 posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I could have fun with the psychology of some drivers. The fact that Jimmie (not Chad, but Jimmie) seems to get such a thrill and take pleasure in abusing his position, abusing the fans, and acting like he needs to be given a throne, is actually indicative of something extremely twisted in his mind. Google "Narcissistic" and "sadistic"" After reading this, I've came to the conclusion that Jimmie Johnson is the Dennis Reynolds of NASCAR. Here is my half-way musings on the season. *Best Driver:* Matt Kenseth (Screw Jimmie and his untouchable super race car. Kenseth's had to deal with bad luck & TuRD grenades. Jimmie & Chad have caused most of their own bad luck) *Most Disappointing Driver:* Brad Keselowski *Driver With The Worst Luck/Most Feel Sorry For:* Tie, Jeff Gordon & Denny Hamlin *Best Race:* Never thought I'd ever say this, but Fontana. *Worst Race:* Any of the Daytona races. *Best Team:* Felony Motorsports (Gibbs is too blow-up prone to be rated the best) *Most Disappointing Team:* Stewart-Haas Racing *New Car Rating:* C+ (Get that damn nose off the track and add some drag to the car) *Tire Rating* A- for durability, F+ for everything else. *Season Rating* C+ 641. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Those aren't exactly the same though because there are dozens of NBA, MLB games per week to watch and about 15 NFL games every week so you aren't forced to watch the Yankees or the Heat or the Patriots dominate each and every week. You have more options to find something that interests you. There's only one NASCAR Sprint Cup race and if you are a NASCAR fan you have to watch Jimmie Johnson dominate each and every week. Plus, all of the other sports have local/regional fan bases built in, whereas NASCAR has to appeal to a national audience. Also, as has been discussed before, Jimmie Johnson just doesn't stir up passions of extreme like or hatred the way the Heat, Yankees, or Jeff Gordon did/does. That's where the big problem is...Johnson is the face of the sport at the present time, but it's hard to love and it's hard to love to hate him. Compare that to Kyle Busch who also has a lot of haters but he's made that part of his persona." Team sports and NASCAR are very different, but that doesn't change the fact that drivers like Gordon and Earnhardt attracted a lot of new fans to the sport, bandwagon fans and anti-fans alike. For a 5-time champion, Johnson has a quite small fanbase and no one has honestly begun watching the sport just to be against him, it's just a lot of the longtime fans of the sport. I think a lot of fans view him as somewhat of an outsider, he doesn't really fit the stereotypical mold of a NASCAR driver. He's a guy who probably would have been an IndyCar driver today had the series not split in 1995 and he would have fit in better over there. "JimmieJohnsonFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:03 am I totally understand why JJ is hated so much but i've always liked his killer instinct, and ruthless attitude towards the competition. Johnson's 5 Championships and other victory's he's had may carry an asterisk but he's won so many races that they all can't come from cheating, and he seems like a pretty decent guy. I know he puts the blame on other people when he makes a mistake now and then but he is a very good driver,just not the best or the best ever. I was shocked and happy that he swept Daytona, even though he did wreck Ambrose and Kahne." This guy is a complete troll. "I've lost faith in most people on this board after reading these ridiculous comments. The race wasn't even CLOSE to being as bad as the whiners on here are insinuating, they are just angry because Jimmie Johnson won again. Ho hum. The man is a great driver and has a great team around him. Why can't everyone just accept that?" I don't hate/dislike Johnson like most people around here, but this was a pretty terrible race. I'm not sure when I've seen so little passing in a restrictor plate race. Whoever was out in front could just switch lanes and keep the lead for 20 laps... not only Johnson, but also Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin. "Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:41 am I'm sure no one wants to hear from me, being a Johnson fan and all, but I have several things to say." I have mad respect for you admitting to being a Jimmie Johnson fan and using a screen name. As far as I know, you're not even allowed to TOLERATE the guy around here. "All the media is wetting themselves because their precious Johnson swept Daytona, the first since 82. I feel like I'm getting molested to even consider that Johnson joins Yarborough, Yarbrough, and Allison as drivers to sweep Daytona." They're not wetting themselves because Johnson did it, they're wetting themselves because SOMEONE did it. "I'd like to thank Jimmie Johnson for getting me interested in Formula 1." Uhh, Vettel in F1 is far more dominant than Johnson in NASCAR and longtime F1 fans feel the same (or even worse) towards Vettel as NASCAR fans do towards Johnson. "Will this be the year Jeff Gordon will miss the chase?" Well it wouldn't be "the" year, because he has missed one before. But no, I don't think he'll miss the chase. "Bring back the tandem, I'm glad I missed this race. Except for the ending of the Talladega race, the Cup RP races have been below average at best. For the remainder of this season, the Nationwide and Truck Series have 85% of my attention. Mid-Ohio, Eldora, Watkins Glen, and Canada Motorsports Park races are better than the Arrogant, Out of Touch with my roots Jimmie Johnson Invitational Cup Series. The 2013 Cup Series season is a replay of 2009 all over again where nobody seriously challenges the #48 team." I agree about bringing back the tandem and that the upcoming Nationwide and Truck races look exciting. I am especially looking forward to Eldora. 642. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) NicoRosbergFan, you say that when Jimmie Johnson is leading a race, like last night's at Daytona, that you don't think anyone tries to make any moves on him. I disagree, because with his particular rules package, nobody can make any kind of move on the leader, no matter who it is. When the cars get single-file, they're basically stuck there because they can't get any runs, and it doesn't matter who the leader is. I said that whoever was leading with 20 laps to go was going to win for that reason, because nobody could make any moves. Remember that Matt Kenseth led 142 laps at Talladega for the exact same reason. Nobody could close on him and make moves to pass him, but I don't remember anyone complaining because Kenseth led so many laps. I warned that this might happen at the plate tracks before this season even started because of the more aerodynamic cars and the shorter spoilers that are being used for the plate races this season. To have passing at Daytona and Talladega, you must be able to close on the car in front of you, and since the cars are leaving a much smaller hole in the air because of the aerodynamics and the smaller spoiler, that's virtually impossible this year. Bigger spoilers are needed to increase the level of competition because they'll cause the cars to punch a much bigger hole in the air, which will allow the trailing cars a chance to close up and used the draft to get by, and until NASCAR uses a bigger rear spoiler, the "racing", if you can call it that, will continue to be as it's been at the three plate races this year, which as I said, is easily the worst since 2003. And loomer, it can be argued that the greatest decade in modern sports history was the 1970s, with all the great teams and performers across the entire spectrum of the sports world. 643. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) NLA, Jeff Gordon is going to miss the Chase, because he has no speed, and considering the tracks that are coming up after Loudon, I would not be surprised if in two or three races, that he's as low as 17th in points, en if he doesn't have a DNF, because while he's just 12 points out of tenth, he's also just 12 points ahead of Jamie McMurray, who's currently 17th, and even McMurray's running better than Gordon is. Of those around him in the points, the only one that Gordon's really running better than is Ryan Newman, who's currently 16th, so I would not be surprised if Gordon falls as low as 17th in the next few races. Also, Gordon's pretty much on an island at Hendrick Motorsports, which was evident by his lack of performance at both Pocono and Michigan, as he was 2-3 MPH slower than his teammates all weekend at both places, and they're not eager to assist him in any way because they know how good he is. They don't want him up to their pace, because they know he might outrun them, and they don't want that happening, so Gordon is pretty much on an island at HMS. I expect Gordon to be that 2-3 MPH slower than his teammates at Indy, Pocono, and Michigan, and that alone may send him cascading to that 17th position I'm talking about, and if he has a DNF, he could actually be in danger of falling out of the top 20 in points. 644. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Gordon would miss the Chase last last year at this time, when he was in a considerably worse position than he is now, so I'm not going to doubt him this year. The drivers from 9th through 17th are separated by just 26 points, and drivers who have been in this position before will be the most likely ones to pull through. I could see Gordon winning Loudon and Richmond both, and he still has a decent chance of making the top 10. 645. Anonymous posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson sells his teammate down the river to stay out in the lead. Wonder if it'll have lasting effects. 646. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2013 - 12:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, you are wrong. 647. Anthony posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @638 ok how bout this. Has Jimmie EVERED met Dale Earnhardt? And I'm not trying to be dumb cause I think he's learn from this guy. Not to mention the fact that when I saw Chad Knaus on Friday he was beng rude not paying attention. And your right when Dale sr died Jimmie Johnson was born (In NASCAR as a domint person) BTW his NASCAR Debut 1998 the year Gordon was "The King" of NASCAR'S 98 season. 15th anniversary. 648. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) These comments just get better and better. You guys should just go all the way and rename this place the Irrational Jimmie Johnson Ranting and Hate Club. I'm not a Johnson fan at all but the fans just have this horribly twisted opinion of him which is frankly insulting to me as a sports fan. The fact that someone is seriously suggesting that JJ has mental problems is pure comedy. I'm willing to guarantee that if boards like this were around in the 90s that you would see the exact same level of irrational hate against Jeff Gordon. Some of you really need to grow up and/or stop watching NASCAR if a guy who drives a race car for a living riles you up this much. 649. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I've given up on even responding to any of the anti-Johnson stuff, because a lot of people around here apparently are unwilling to view him objectively. You come here and say anything remotely good about the guy, and you instantly get called a troll and a "fan" even if you aren't actually a fan and haven't said anything indicating that. But if people are willing to let the performance of a race car driver affect their daily lives so much, why should it bother us? 650. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NLA, they are a butthurt group of Johnson haters who just sociologically feed into each others irrational ranting. Anyone with a shred of sense would read these comments and immediately begin to question the sanity of some of these posters. 651. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "These comments just get better and better. You guys should just go all the way and rename this place the Irrational Jimmie Johnson Ranting and Hate Club." Hmmm. www.irrationaljimmiejohnsonrantingandhateclub.info. Doesn't sound very catchy to me. "I've given up on even responding to any of the anti-Johnson stuff, because a lot of people around here apparently are unwilling to view him objectively." Look, I don't think anyone here doubts what Johnson has accomplished. You don't win 5 consecutive championships without having some level of talent. However, if you dominate a sport that much, the fans are either going to love you (like the New York Yankees) or hate you (like the New England Patriots), and the only way that "die-hard fans" like us would love somebody who has won 5 straight titles is for that person to have a bit of a flamboyant personality, like Dale Earnhardt or Richard Petty did. Jimmie Johnson is one of the most boring personalities in NASCAR nowadays. In fact, he's borderline unlikeable sometimes, especially this year with all the complaints he's been making. We're not being subjective; we're just stating facts, and the fact is: the fans are being turned off by Johnson's dominance as well as his boring personality, which is causing them to stop watching the sport, and due to this, I'm saying that JJ is the worst thing to happen to NASCAR since Dale Sr.'s death. "You come here and say anything remotely good about the guy, and you instantly get called a troll and a "fan" even if you aren't actually a fan and haven't said anything indicating that." You're one to talk. You just called JimmieJohnsonFan a troll not 10 comments ago. 652. jabber1990 posted: 07.07.2013 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) here is the thing about the last-lap if NASCAR DID throw the caution then people would have complained they didn't....people complained so, whenever NASCAR does the right thing (in this case, we'll all agree that both decisions were the right ones) people complain will we also agree this race was better than the 500 653. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) @651 That's rather arrogant of you to proclaim yourself as the person who is authoritatively "stating the facts." JJ's likability is completely subjective, some people like him some people hate him. If someone is childish enough to stop watching the sport because a driver and team are dominant than shame on them. They aren't real sports fans If you want to talk about "facts", look at JJ's merchandise sales. He absolutely has one of the biggest fan bases in the sport, and also has plenty of haters. To me that makes him "polarizing", and polarizing figures are good for the sport. The very fact that you are all sitting here ranting about JJ just goes to show how influential and polarizing he really is. Don't blame JJ for this sports' issues. Blame aero push, blame rock hard tires, and blame too many 1.5 milers. 654. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "if NASCAR DID throw the caution then people would have complained they didn't....people complained" If Johnson had lost, nobody would have complained. "so, whenever NASCAR does the right thing (in this case, we'll all agree that both decisions were the right ones) people complain" Well, that's just because people are so fickle. They'll complain if their driver was affected negatively by a decision, and they'll cheer if their driver was affected positively. We here try to be as objective as possible, although that can be a bit hard when there are so many Johnson haters on this site (and that is one thing I will agree with NLA and MStall on: there are a LOT of JJ haters on this site, none more extreme than Baker or NRF). "will we also agree this race was better than the 500" Yes. 655. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "You're one to talk. You just called JimmieJohnsonFan a troll not 10 comments ago." Reread that guy's comment, he's not actually a Jimmie Johnson fan. He includes a subtle insult after every compliment. "Look, I don't think anyone here doubts what Johnson has accomplished. You don't win 5 consecutive championships without having some level of talent. However, if you dominate a sport that much, the fans are either going to love you (like the New York Yankees) or hate you (like the New England Patriots), and the only way that "die-hard fans" like us would love somebody who has won 5 straight titles is for that person to have a bit of a flamboyant personality, like Dale Earnhardt or Richard Petty did. Jimmie Johnson is one of the most boring personalities in NASCAR nowadays. In fact, he's borderline unlikeable sometimes, especially this year with all the complaints he's been making. We're not being subjective; we're just stating facts, and the fact is: the fans are being turned off by Johnson's dominance as well as his boring personality, which is causing them to stop watching the sport, and due to this, I'm saying that JJ is the worst thing to happen to NASCAR since Dale Sr.'s death." That's an objective analysis and I'm not going to disagree with anything you just said. But I've read comments on this site where Johnson has had death wishes, people have questioned the legitimacy of the sport due to his success, people have questioned his mental health, and all sorts of conspiracy theories have been promoted, and that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. 656. JT_Racing posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @MStall41: You are absolutely right, Jeff Gordon garnered so much contempt from fans during his reign of dominance in the late 90's it was unbelievable. He was labeled a cheater, a whiner, and a benefactor of superior equipment and resources. Consider this comparison after 417 career cup starts: Driver Races AvgFinish Wins Top 5's Top 10's Laps Led Jeff Gordon 417 12.1 72 196 262 17220 Jimmie Johnson 417 11.6 64 174 260 14863 It is amusing that Jimmie Johnson is regarded as all of the same things in this day and age, though not unexpected. It is even more amusing when you consider the fact that the like of Stewart, Gordon, Kahne, and Kenseth have termed him the absolute best in the business bar none. Then again, what do they know about racing? 657. JT_Racing posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A more readable comparison: Driver Races AvgFinish Wins Top 5's Top 10's Laps Led Jeff Gordon 417 12.1 72 196 262 17220 Jimmie Johnson 417 11.6 64 174 260 14863 658. JT_Racing posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I give up 659. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) You're absolutely right JT. When you have actual race car drivers who compete with JJ weekly telling you that he's one of the very best to step foot in a race car, who are we to argue with them? But of course all the conspiracy theorists probably think NASCAR paid them to say that, lol. Gotta love the Internet. 660. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two questions: Is the Pocono Indy race televised? If so, what station? Also, why does everyone see that there is blatant hatred toward Johnson supporters? I don't see that on this site. I do see people being vocal about their dislike and hatred toward Johnson, but I think I and maybe one other person here do like him and to my knowledge, aren't called down consistently. So where is the irrational anti-48 hate? One more thing: Youtube videos finally started playing right for me. The race looked like a yawn-stifling event. THIS is the very reason why I wanted to stick with the 2-car tandem drafting! I knew in my heart of hearts that three of four guys would end up ontop of the feild and dominate the plate races if they tried going back to the pack racing crap. I'm not afraid to say it now: Here are the problems with post 2012 Pack Racing: 1: The drivers are not familiar enough with the cars to keep them stable running side-by-side-by-side LAP AFTER LAP AFTER LAP. We will have some drivers that will push it harder then everyone else and get to the front, while everyone else, in fear of the point system hurting them, will let them pass for the sake of finishing. 2: Matt Kenseth and Jimmie Johnson. These guys KNOW what they are doing with pack racing. When Johnson won Daytona and talladega in 2006, I knew from then on that he would be a consistent threat in pack racing. And that has held up, considering he doesn't get crashed. I also knew that Kenseth has a bright head on his shoulders, and while not a guy who is extremely aggressive, he knows how far to push whom, and how to keep people behind him. When post-2012 pack racing rolled in, it fit their driving styles perfectly. For at least the next three years, these two will win RP race in and RP race out. The stats don't argue with me, they agree with me. 3: GWC and Two-Wide restarts: Yes, everyone will disagree with me here, but look again the the finish of the 1993 Winston 500 for instance. They restarted double file, two laps to go. Wallace ended up in shredded sheet metal just past the finish line. If you are Bobby Lewis Arrington and he's Johny Doe Simith, and you guys want to switch lines, and you only have two laps to do so, then by golly both will want to pass the other WAY to bad, and will probably tangle with each other and take out half the field trying to switch lanes while not able to give up the spot. This also has been consistent. ON late-race restarts, the feild is bucnehd up, and everyone is trying to get to the lane they want. You can't give, and I'd condem someone if they DID give, but GWC and Dual-filed restarts together on plate tracks are very, very bad. Yes, most will disagree with me, but look at the 2012 Aaron's 499, the 2012 Coke Zero 400, the 2012 fall 'Dega race, and last night's race. That's all I have to say thus far. I'll probably be back a little later today. 661. murb posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Long Shot, post 651 was right on the money. That was the best post I've ever seen you make. I'm gonna speak for myself once again, since I'm sure that since I outspokenly don't like Jimmie, MStall41 has lumped me in with the people who said that Jimmie has mental problems. My issue with this current phase of Nascar is Nascar itself. Sure, Jimmie and his completely unlikable "I Forgot My Roots" personality winning all the time makes it even worse, but overall my complaints are with Nascar. They have to be the worst sanctioning body in sports (surely in auto racing). There's just no consistency with ANYTHING they do. It depressed me to see them not throw the caution for those two last lap crashes. They threw the caution for a wreck behind the leaders in the trioval WHEN THEY WERE 300 FEET FROM THE FINISH LINE at the Talladega NNS race, so why the hell didn't they throw the caution in this race when there was not one, but TWO last lap crashes at two opposite ends of the track? That is some full blown, unprofessional, horse shit inconsistency. But the inconsistency doesn't end with the cautions though. SIXTEEN TEAMS were caught with "illegal" roof flaps this weekend, and now may be facing penalties. As I said before, when you have that many teams with "illegal" parts, there's a VERY VERY good chance that it is the sanctioning body not being clear with the teams about what is legal and what isn't. You're gonna potentially penalize teams because YOU f**ked up, Nascar? That's just a vomit-inducing way to run a racing organization. This is why Nascar is falling apart. It's all about the money nowadays, and less about the on track product like it used to be. Sure, I don't like Jimmie Johnson at all and his CONSTANT winning is really hard to watch, but it would be a hell of a lot more tolerable if Nascar actually tried to run the sport in a professional manner like they used to. This current group of people running the sport (Brian France, Robin Pemberton, John Darby) are no different than the politicians in Washington who are screwing up our country. So don't try and lump us all together as "butthurt Jimmie haters". Yeah, a lot of us don't like him (and yeah, some people are taking it too far and making idiotic comments), but that doesn't mean that we're all people that want him to die or think he has mental problems. Some of us have other issues with the sport that don't necessarily have to do with Jimmie, so that hugely offends me that you would just group us all together like that. 662. MStall41 posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Oh and for all the "NASCAR is dying and plate racing is horrible folks".... @JennaFryer: #NASCAR from Daytona on #TNT got a 3.5 HH overnight up from 3.3. highest-rated and most-viewed race on TNT since Daytona 2010. 663. 83andJoe posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) >I'm willing to guarantee that if boards like this were around in the 90s that you would see the exact same level of irrational hate against Jeff Gordon. It's the same thing as with politics: throw all the mud at the guy on the other team, but once your guy gets on top, if the other guys start throwing mud it's because they're mental. 664. murb posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "@JennaFryer: #NASCAR from Daytona on #TNT got a 3.5 HH overnight up from 3.3. highest-rated and most-viewed race on TNT since Daytona 2010." Just because the ratings are good doesn't mean that the product is necessarily good. I'm sure the ratings for that Kardashians stuff on E! are through the roof, but that doesn't mean it isn't a chore to watch. 665. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Trust me, this sport has far worse issues than Jimmie, which says just how low this sport has come. The sad part is that the sport right now is dominated by a driver who would and has intentionally wreck(ed) his own teammate to win. What's worse is that the incoming talent of guys like Chase Elliott, the Dillons, James Buescher, etc seem to have even less of a conscience and more of a "I'd f*ck my own mother to win" mentality than Jimmie. I myself have made up my mind: once Jeff's gone, I'm probably gone because Mark will already be gone and the last true hero of this sport will be gone. That's why I watch racing. I want to see heroes. James Hinchcliffe is a hero, someone a little kid can level with as well as an adult. The heroes: Richard, Dale and Dale (lol), Terry, Bobby and Davey, Alan, Harry, Ernie, Ricky, Rusty, Jeff, Mark, Fireball, Junior, Buck, Herb, Lee... all those guys who could talk the talk and follow it up on the track by showing their skill even in the most impossible conditions, like Ricky Rudd at Martinsville in 100 degree September heat and humidity with no air conditioning winning the race, AND man up to their mistakes, all without saying "You the fans, bow to me"... they are all gone or will be gone. We ALL have to face this. The NASCAR we grew up with is gone and will be forgotten as will our heroes. 666. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) The difference is Gordon brought eyes to the sport and increased interest levels, mostly from people like me hoping to see him fail, but the sport grew under his reign, like it did under Dale's reign, like it did under Richard's reign. Jimmie isn't compelling enough to love or hate. His car is so blatently superior, there is nothing to latch on to, and his attempts to act human (the hat bills last night) come off as lame. Yes, there are tons of other problems too as the sanctioning body is as incompetent as ever, but this is nothing new. Anyone remember the pit road rules cluster**** of '91? The "you can only change two tires under caution" garbage in '84? But the sport still kept growing. Under JJ, we are losing fans by the minute. 667. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's rather arrogant of you to proclaim yourself as the person who is authoritatively "stating the facts."" Um, I never said that. I was referring to most of the people on this site who have posted negatively about Jimmie Johnson. "If someone is childish enough to stop watching the sport because a driver and team are dominant than shame on them. They aren't real sports fans" Exactly my point. It seems like 75-80% of the people who watch NASCAR these days aren't real sports fans, and if 75% of them decide to stop watching NASCAR because of Johnson or other reasons, then that's 2/3 of the sport's fanbase who are no longer watching, which would be a death blow to NASCAR. "He absolutely has one of the biggest fan bases in the sport, and also has plenty of haters. To me that makes him "polarizing", and polarizing figures are good for the sport." The problem is, though, NASCAR needs a good face for the sport; someone like Earnhardt or Petty was (and yes, I am using that combination again). Johnson is not that face. His "blah" personality won't help NASCAR gain any new fans, and it will also turn off many of the old-timers who still long for the good olden days when NASCAR was, well, a "redneck's" sport. THAT is why I'm saying that Johnson is so bad for the sport. Because of him, NASCAR is losing a lot of its core fans, and he's certainly not helping attract any new ones. NASCAR lucked out on the latter when Danica joined, as she adds "sex appeal", but I won't get into talking about her? If anything, she's worse than Johnson. "Don't blame JJ for this sports' issues. Blame aero push, blame rock hard tires, and blame too many 1.5 milers." No, he's not the only problem, but he's certainly a contributing factor. "Reread that guy's comment, he's not actually a Jimmie Johnson fan. He includes a subtle insult after every compliment." Ah, you are right. My mistake. I didn't read his comments that closely. "I've read comments on this site where Johnson has had death wishes, people have questioned the legitimacy of the sport due to his success, people have questioned his mental health, and all sorts of conspiracy theories have been promoted, and that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about." You are absolutely right. The death wishes that Baker has posted are just inexcusable, and as for the conspiracy theories, we were talking about that a few days ago, so I won't really say anything about it. But yes, comments like those are a bit extreme and shouldn't be posted. "Long Shot, post 651 was right on the money. That was the best post I've ever seen you make." Thank you. And same to you on your post #661. "Just because the ratings are good doesn't mean that the product is necessarily good. I'm sure the ratings for that Kardashians stuff on E! are through the roof, but that doesn't mean it isn't a chore to watch." If you wanted to be more accurate, calculate the average number of people watching, or maybe the number of people watching when the race was over. Just saying how many people tuned in at some point during the race doesn't mean jack. 668. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^ "NASCAR lucked out on the latter when Danica joined, as she adds "sex appeal", but I won't get into talking about her?" Ignore that question mark. Also, this is totally unrelated, but this is another really good article that I found: http://brockbeard.blogspot.com/2013/07/an-open-letter-to-broadcasters-at.html 669. murb posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brock Beard is awesome. I've been watching his YouTube videos for a quite a while. He used to make these starting grid videos for all the races that were very similar to how ESPN/CBS used to do them in the old days. He'd make a great Nascar broadcaster if he were given the chance. Glad to see that he's still making great articles like that. 670. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie may not be "compelling," but have you ever seen another driver express hatred for the fans? Why watch to root against him? It's compelling when you have good guy-bad guy like Gordon-Earnhardt in the 90s and Darrell-Bobby in the 80s (yes, Bobby was on the good of the the good guy-bad guy). People were watching to root against Jeff, but not because he was a dominating jerk. They watched because he dominated; they wanted to see if he would win and root for him not to, but Jeff was not about to throw a temper tantrum or win and say "You fans all suck!" Before Jimmie, fans rooted against a dominant driver. With Jimmie, fans are rooting against a person who hates them for not being his fans. 671. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look for a rant on the sanctioning body later... I might be publishing "NASCAR: Voyager" soon. 672. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brock Beard is awesome. I've been watching his YouTube videos for a quite a while. He used to make these starting grid videos for all the races that were very similar to how ESPN/CBS used to do them in the old days. He'd make a great Nascar broadcaster if he were given the chance." Without a doubt. He actually commented on this site at one point, about 4 or 5 years ago. I'm not sure I've ever seen any NASCAR fan who has quite the way with words that he does, other than maybe DSFF. Well, whenever he does post articles like those, I'll be sure and link them on these comments pages. 673. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie may not be "compelling," but have you ever seen another driver express hatred for the fans?" I think Kyle Busch had a quote a few years ago when the fans were booing him after winning another Nationwide race: "I'm not sure whether the fans didn't like the racing tonight or whether they're just anyone but Busch fans". That's the closest I've come to seeing another driver express hatred for the fans. 674. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Let me say this about Johnson: I don't wish him death, I don't think it's rigged in his favor, and I don't think he has a mental disorder...but I just don't like him. There isn't anything wrong with not like a sports figure, it's part of the natural process of sports. Some of you seem to be under the impression that if you don't like to see him win then you can't be a true NASCAR fan and I don't understand this mindset at all and it seems to be exclusive to NASCAR/auto racing. I go to Auburn University so you better believer I haven't been happy with the way the college football season has ultimately turned out for 3 of the last 4 year, but does that mean I'm not a "real" college football fan? I don't know many rational people who would say so. I find Johnson boring and I watch racing ultimately to be entertained. Almost everyone who watches sports will say they watch it to be entertained. It's not just his constant winning I find boring, it's the fact that his personality is so blah mixed with the fact that he wins a lot. I didn't start watching until after Gordon's mid to late 90s dominance had more or less come to an end, but I don't think I would have felt the same way about him that I do Johnson. I still probably would have hated him, but it would have been a different type of hatred--the type I feel for the University of Alabama as an Auburn student which ultimately makes college football all the more fun. I'm not gonna stop watching NASCAR any time soon, but I've been a fan for 14 years and I've never held a lower opinion about it than I do at the present time. 675. Bento Ruptos posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I am sick and tired of Jimmie Johnson winning. He won too many races AND I hope that Jimmie Johnson will miss the chase by 3 points 676. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Let me say this about Johnson: I don't wish him death, I don't think it's rigged in his favor, and I don't think he has a mental disorder...but I just don't like him." I think you just expressed the opinions of 90% of the people on this board. The only exceptions I can think of would be the JJ fans (of which there are very few), Baker (who has wished death or serious injury on Johnson numerous times), Anthony (ditto), and NicoRosbergFan (the main conspiracy theorist). 677. cjs3872 posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NLA (#644) and DSFF (#646), remember that Gordon only had a chance to make the Chase last year due to two freak events happening. One was at Pocono when the top four cars wrecked on a restart, allowing Gordon to flat-out inherit the lead as the tragic storm that ended the race early hit. the other was when Kyle Busch, who was going to win at Watkins glen a few weeks later, hit an oil slick on the final lap. Had that not happened, Kyle would have had two wins, and what happened at Richmond a month after the race at Watkins Glen wouldn't have mattered, since he would have had two wins to Gordon's one (or perhaps even none, if not for the crazy events at Pocono). That's the only reason he even had any chance to make it last year, and he's running worse this year than he ran last year. People forget that he actually ran better last year, but had crazy things happen. This year, he's just not running that well for the most part. And part of the reason is that he's probably on an island at Hendrick Motorsports, because he's slow and not getting much help from the other Hendrick teams. Ironically, Gordon's best chance to make the Chase may come this Tuesday, and it's something that doesn't even involve his team. If NASCAR docks the teams involved in the roof spacer controversy points, that could vault him into the top 10, depending on how many points are docked from the teams, because he has to get into the top ten in points this year, because on most tracks, his car is too slow to have any real chance to win, but if other teams are fined points, that could vault him right up there without him having to do anything, because I see him having trouble finding he top ten at Indy, Pocono, Watkins Glen, and Michigan, and if he drops out of any more races, he could be in serious jeopardy of falling out of the top 20 in points. I see him possibly dropping as low as 17th within two or three races, just based on how he's running compared to how others around him in points are running, and one more DNF could put him in jeopardy of falling out of the top 20. He was worse off in points at this time last year, but he was running better last year than he is this year. I think he's just hanging on this year, because the drivers around him in points are faster than he is. 678. Paul posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I also think Allen Bestwick is actually the best play by play commentator in Nascar by far" No love for Rick Allen? He shows more enthusiasm than any other NASCAR play-by-play announcer, and always shows the right amount of enthusiasm at the right times (i.e He has more enthusiasm in his voice when a crash happens than when someone makes a pass for the lead.). Personally, I think he's the best NASCAR play-by-play commentator right now, and it's not even close between he and Allen Bestwick. This might sound blasphemous around these parts, but I've always enjoyed Marty Reid's commentary, especially when he's doing standalone Nationwide races with Ricky Craven (Montreal last year). I like how he almost always refers to slower cars by the driver's name, as opposed to Bestwick who often either ignores the lapped traffic or simply refers to them as "slower cars." Sure he's corny, has odd catchphrases, and will sometimes get things wrong during the race (such as what lap it is or which driver is driving which car), but he's always upbeat and sounds like he genuinely wants to be at the track calling the action. I'll take someone who's enthusiastic and makes the race enjoyable to listen to (Allen, Reid) over someone who's better, but doesn't seem as interested in the on-track action (Joy, Bestwick) any day of the week. 679. murb posted: 07.07.2013 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was actually just referring to play by play guys for Cup, Paul. I do enjoy Rick Allen's Truck announcing quite a bit. 680. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No love for Rick Allen? He shows more enthusiasm than any other NASCAR play-by-play announcer, and always shows the right amount of enthusiasm at the right times (i.e He has more enthusiasm in his voice when a crash happens than when someone makes a pass for the lead.). Personally, I think he's the best NASCAR play-by-play commentator right now, and it's not even close between he and Allen Bestwick." He's the only play-by-play announcer who shows any energy nowadays, other than Reid. Joy, Alexander, and Bestwick all talk like they've been doing this all day and just want to go home to their multi-million dollar mansions and relax. And let me tell you, there is nobody better at calling wrecks than Rick Allen, other than maybe that guy from MRN who they usually station in Turn 2 (don't know his name, but that guy gets riled up like you wouldn't believe whenever somebody wrecks in front of him). "This might sound blasphemous around these parts, but I've always enjoyed Marty Reid's commentary, especially when he's doing standalone Nationwide races with Ricky Craven (Montreal last year). I like how he almost always refers to slower cars by the driver's name, as opposed to Bestwick who often either ignores the lapped traffic or simply refers to them as "slower cars." Sure he's corny, has odd catchphrases, and will sometimes get things wrong during the race (such as what lap it is or which driver is driving which car), but he's always upbeat and sounds like he genuinely wants to be at the track calling the action." You could replace Reid's name with Darrell Waltrip, and it wouldn't matter. The description fits them both, although DW makes less commentating errors than Marty does. The main problem that Marty Reid has is that he tries to be too clever when he's calling races. Whenever he tries to say something clever, he always garbles the words around. If he were to just stop doing that, I personally could stand him a lot more. He's still not the brightest bulb, but he would be better than Mikey for sure. 681. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know about Baker, but I am sick of Long Shot taking pot shots at me with every single post he makes. Debating is one thing, but he has outright insulted people multiple times today, and I'm sick of it. I know where most of my Johnson hatred comes from. First off, I do think there is subterfuge at Hendrick because, as cjs has said, Jeff's issues are issues that can't be explained by age or injuries, because the crap that Jeff gets from his cars never happened to any other driver with his number of years of experience. Second off, I live with a person who is dangerously psychotic in their like for Jimmie. She (a) says if you don't like him you're a deplorable person and deserve to die. She (b) issues similar threats if you suggest he's cheating. Anytime the 48 does cheat (which is what, 3-10 times a year?), she (c) says NASCAR is out to get him because the sanctioning body is insanely jealous. She (d) violently hates any driver who beats Johnson outright (which is easy to if it comes down to driver talent). She (e) says Chase titles are worth more than real titles because Jimmie won them and if you think otherwise you're a crybaby, which is kind of ironic because she hated the Chase the first two years. She (f), if confronted, would resort to physical assault if you confront on these things, to the extent where yes she would throw deadly objects like knives or ceramic coffee mugs at you. Folks, I live at home with my parents, and this b-tch is my mother. However, I respect the folks on this board and have come to view them as my racing family enough where I will try to restrain my feelings for Johnson enough to only discuss things as objectively as possible. 682. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On announcers, does anyone else think those truck series announcers sound like WCW announcers? 683. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't know about Baker, but I am sick of Long Shot taking pot shots at me with every single post he makes. Debating is one thing, but he has outright insulted people multiple times today, and I'm sick of it." You are right. My posting has been senseless to other people's feelings today, and I apologize to anyone whose feelings I might have hurt. Nico, I can't say that you haven't taken shots at me in the past, but still, I am sorry. I respect you, NLA, Baker, and everybody else on this board a lot, and these discussions are a butt-load of fun to have with such intelligent people, so once again, I apologize. 684. JimmieJohnsonFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Reread that guy's comment, he's not actually a Jimmie Johnson fan. He includes a subtle insult after every compliment." I'm not allowed to evaluate him? Grow up. 685. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I felt more like I was apologizing for being a butt-head myself. Apology accepted, from one Al to another. You, I take shots at because you're an Alex. 686. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Second off, I live with a person who is dangerously psychotic in their like for Jimmie. She (a) says if you don't like him you're a deplorable person and deserve to die. She (b) issues similar threats if you suggest he's cheating. Anytime the 48 does cheat (which is what, 3-10 times a year?), she (c) says NASCAR is out to get him because the sanctioning body is insanely jealous. She (d) violently hates any driver who beats Johnson outright (which is easy to if it comes down to driver talent). She (e) says Chase titles are worth more than real titles because Jimmie won them and if you think otherwise you're a crybaby, which is kind of ironic because she hated the Chase the first two years. She (f), if confronted, would resort to physical assault if you confront on these things, to the extent where yes she would throw deadly objects like knives or ceramic coffee mugs at you. Folks, I live at home with my parents, and this b-tch is my mother." Wow. I do not know what to say. This makes me feel even worse than before for taking all those "pot shots" at you. If I were in your situation, I'd probably feel the same way about Johnson. My apologies again. 687. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Given this site's nature, I think it takes a lot more guts to have some kind of "driver"-fan name just because your biases are see through like glass. JJFan, I thought you did a fair evaluation. 688. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hence why I said I shall try to restrict my Johnson evaluations in the future unless it's something more objective, like whether he jumped a restart or not. 689. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I felt more like I was apologizing for being a butt-head myself. Apology accepted, from one Al to another." That's one of the best things about the people on this website. The mutual respect for each other is so great that even after big arguments where people are threatening to leave the site, we always end up apologizing and making up. That is an amazing level of respect. You guys are the best. "You, I take shots at because you're an Alex." Fair enough, I guess. I suppose you can expect the same from me in future, although mine will be more subdued than what they were today. I trust the age gap also has something to do with it, considering that you never seem to take any shots at murb? 690. JimmieJohnsonFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "JJFan, I thought you did a fair evaluation." Thank you. 691. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Long Shot, you figured it out. Same reason I pick on Young HTML NUT David. 692. joey2448 posted: 07.07.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Folks, I live at home with my parents, and this b-tch is my mother." Whoa, be careful there, NRF. Even though she may be dangerously psychotic at times, as you describe, she is still your mother. Harsh words. 693. The Long Shot posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Whoa, be careful there, NRF. Even though she may be dangerously psychotic at times, as you describe, she is still your mother. Harsh words." It depends on the circumstances. If she still cares for you, and is actually a really good mother despite her "psychotic outbursts", then yes, you probably shouldn't call her a b*tch. If, however, she is a complete jerk to you and doesn't give you the care, love, and affection that a mother should, then call her anything you want. That's my point of view. Luckily, I have a really great mom, so I never have to say anything bad about her (even if she knows almost nothing about NASCAR and "roots" for Kyle Busch because he's sponsored by M&M's). 694. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's not go further with my mother. Let's say she has earned her title in spite of her 40% of the time of her loving care. She is quite egomaniacal, like her driver :P 695. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I see another, "The kids are eating the bones," I may cry. 696. AveryNH posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) You know, I've been a fan since the mid 90s, when little toddler me began loving this sport I started picking and cherring for my own heroes. One of which still drives on a semi regular and the other has long since retired. Never in my 15 years of fandom have I ever been so close to turned off by this sport. Not after ditching the old points format, not after ditching the cars' individuality by making every car look like a Levittown house, and not after their questionable officiating of races. Everyone here has brought up great points and instead of repeating them, I'll share my p.o.v. You may find this crazy, but there was a time where I rooted vocally for J.J. That long ago time was around 04-05 when I still vehemently disliked Gordon. But as he won championship after championship he become (to me) more and more of a arrogant, out of touch, whiner, who just expected people to roll over and so he could win. As a result, I began to root against him. In my opinion no champion should conduct themselves that way. In fact, I kidded around with the fans I sat next to at NHMS last year that since they were Johnson fans that I'd throw them on the track for the next debris caution. When I inquired why they rooted for him, they told me that they love to love him and they hate us for hating him. Which finally leads me to this: Next Sunday when I go down to Loudon I think I'll conduct a little poll and see how many people root for or against Jimmie, and how many think he is either good or bad for this sport. Of course if he wins I'll storm out of the track never to return again... okay probably not, as I've since cooled off from last night. But I'll try to ask something like a hundred people and post my results in the comments next week. 697. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.07.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Second off, I live with a person who is dangerously psychotic in their like for Jimmie. She (a) says if you don't like him you're a deplorable person and deserve to die. She (b) issues similar threats if you suggest he's cheating. Anytime the 48 does cheat (which is what, 3-10 times a year?), she (c) says NASCAR is out to get him because the sanctioning body is insanely jealous. She (d) violently hates any driver who beats Johnson outright (which is easy to if it comes down to driver talent). She (e) says Chase titles are worth more than real titles because Jimmie won them and if you think otherwise you're a crybaby, which is kind of ironic because she hated the Chase the first two years. She (f), if confronted, would resort to physical assault if you confront on these things, to the extent where yes she would throw deadly objects like knives or ceramic coffee mugs at you. Folks, I live at home with my parents, and this b-tch is my mother." Wow, that really sucks and I'm sorry to hear that. I can kind of understand where you're coming from because my dad was quite similar in actions (minus throwing stuff), but for different reasons. We both rooted for Dale Jarrett but he's a massive pessimist and always liked to put the guy down for whatever reason and would prop up drivers he hated and say they were better than him (the funniest thing he ever said was some point in 2005 when he said Biffle was the best driver in NASCAR; when I brought that up a few weeks later, he denied ever saying it). When I defended Jarrett using statistics and facts, he would get mad and start either yelling at me or threatening physical violence (he drank during the races, he's not actually a POS). Luckily it never got physical (though it got close several times), but I really got tired of the crap and I just stopped watching races with him. For a few years, I kind of hated some of the drivers he always liked to talk up, but that's since passed, I actually kind of like most of them now to some extent. So I can definitely understand why you would feel the way you do about Johnson. And to be honest, I actually agree with most of the things you say that don't relate to Johnson or conspiracy theories. 698. Baker posted: 07.07.2013 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Nico, "I don't know about Baker, but I am sick of Long Shot taking pot shots at me with every single post he makes. Debating is one thing, but he has outright insulted people multiple times today, and I'm sick of it." Meh, just brush it off and keep posting. I honestly don't care what people think about me in life or on the internet. I am what I am and that's all I can be. If someone does not like me then so be it. As long as I have my close family and my handful of really good friends I could care less if the rest of the 7+ billion on the planet down right hated me. As for the reason I think most on here don't like me is my Jimmie Johnson comments, and I have admitted that I was overboard on the death comment way back when. Do I really wish death on Jimmie? No. I was really heated and commented without thinking. There are prisons full of people who would deserve that more than even my mortal enemy Jimmie Johnson. Then the Kentucky race I was simply suggesting a trade Jimmie for Dale Sr. I wasn't wishing death on anyone and people took it way out of context, SO those say I have done it numerous times are wrong. I only said it once in hast and admitted I was wrong. The second time was a miscommunication of sorts. I respect you , Nico, more than most posters on here, but I think you should let things role off your back a little more. I do agree the thumbs down for commenting about Kimmell making history was wrong and, yes, it is not right for someone to continuously put another poster down, however, my thinking is that I have my opinions and I am going to make those opinions known. If you do not like me or my opinions then you have every right not to read my opinions or agree with me. Either way you are not going to hurt my feelings and I am going to keep on posting. I think you would make things easier on yourself if you adopted some of my carefree approach. 699. Baker posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't get to go to Limaland, The Night Before, or the Kings Royal this year because we just bought a house and I am neck deep in a mountain of a remodel :( And Attica got rained out earlier this summer :( So much for some good racing in Ohio this year :( 700. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Life sucking up in Ohio, eh? 701. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I dedicate the above comment #700 to the kids who ate the bones. 702. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TV Ratings are in the end what drives the sport, and all sports (see NFL), so if the Coke Trip 400 got a good rating then NASCAR will consider it a success. Whether if not the racing was perceived as good I have no clue, I didn't think it was last night but in the end you are appealing to the masses. 703. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR TV Ratings Chart 1996-2013: http://nascarnomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/historical-700x419.png Looks like somebody's heart beat during sex. 704. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster, please delete one of my posts, due to delay in posting assumed you had moded out post due to 'sex' mention. 705. Baker posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Life sucking up in Ohio, eh?" It is actually pretty good considering we just got a new house an a huge upgrade from out last place. A lot of first with my 14 month old daughter this year including her first race, truck pull, fireworks, glow sticks, and fishing. My youngest brother just got home from overseas in the Army and is now out for good so we don't have to worry about him anymore. All in all it is pretty good in Ohio it is just the lack of World of Outlaws that has me a little blue. 706. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bob Dillner is officially an idiot. 707. The Sound posted: 07.07.2013 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about this idea to increase drivers' aggressiveness? Win multiples races, you make the Chase. No matter what. Unless you are outside the Top 25, perhaps, but then again how many drivers back there could win multiple races? Simple. Top 10 makes the Chase, followed by any others who win multiple races. If that makes for a 15-car field (unlikely), so be it. 708. Baker posted: 07.07.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Sound, I have always felt Top 10 is too damn many undeserving drivers anyway. You have to be elite consistent or have multiple wins IMO to truly be considered a Championship threat. I have always wanted to see NASCAR cut the chase field down to the Top 5-6 period. If they insist on have a Chase that is, and if they insist on having a wild card then it should be the Top 5 in points plus anyone with multiple wins. That would eliminate any chance of a ridiculous 15 car field. 709. Baker posted: 07.07.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) Sorry for so many post here I am still reading and catching up on some of the topics the past 15 hours or so... I don't care what other drivers have to say because the proof is in the results. When Jimmie Johnson has a car far superior to the next best car then, yes, they are right he is the best in the business today. When he doesn't have the elite car and he is pushed then he falters time and time again. He is far from the best or he would prove it on driver tracks like Watkins Glen and Sonoma were the driver is more important than the car. He would also win even more and dominant even more races than he has over the years. Yeah 64 wins is nice and all, but Jeff Gordon, Dale Earnhardt, Cale Yarborough, Darrell Waltrip, David Pearson and Richard Petty were all far more dominant in their reign of terror. Jimmie is lucky because of the chase and all his best tracks aside from Darlington and Indianapolis are in the chase and none of his worst tracks are in the chase. He would also not throw away as many races or championships as his has when a competitor is able to put the heat on. He is far from a talentless hack, however he is just as far from being an elite wheelman and dominant champion that his stats would suggest. 710. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.07.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Attendance: 90,000 711. Watto posted: 07.07.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "When he doesn't have the elite car and he is pushed then he falters time and time again." I'm sorry, but I don't get this argument. He HAS faltered with the best car in the race, we've seen that a couple of times this year. He's also faltered when he hasn't been the best car... but the guy has 260 top 10s in 417 starts. He's never had less than 20 top 10s in a season. His worst points finish is 6th. This is a guy who is very consistent in general. This is a guy where people think he's off his game on a night that he ends up 6th-9th. He's had great cars in his career, due to fantastic feedback, a great team, and a great crew chief... and he's also had to drive them. You have to drive these things on the edge to be fast. He's pretty good at that. We've seen Jimmie pull out great finishes on days that he had no real speed, so I don't think he needs a superior car or that he needs to be out front to be able to get a good finish. We've seen a lot of races where he had no speed early on and they make the right adjustments based on his feedback and he rallies to get a good finish. There are top drivers who make way more mistakes than he does, and yet Jimmie has this reputation of a driver who falters under pressure? I disagree. This is coming from a Brad Keselowski fan. I was rooting so hard for Keselowski to win the title last year. I don't think Johnson himself choked away the title last year, I think circumstance worked out in Brad's favor. You're painting Johnson in a light that just isn't accurate if you've been paying attention for the last 10 years because you want to discredit him. I'm not a Johnson fan but I'm going to see him for what he is... the amount of hate spewed his way is incredible. All people do is try to discredit him, the same way that people were trying to discredit Jeff Gordon from the mid 90s on. 712. 12345Dude posted: 07.07.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Did you guys read on Jayski that there is a huge possibility of having football, basketball, baseball etc. games at Daytona? Isn't this place the home of NASCAR? 713. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.07.2013 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) 681. NicoRosbergFan posted: Second off, I live with a person who is dangerously psychotic in their like for Jimmie. She (a) says if you don't like him you're a deplorable person and deserve to die. She (b) issues similar threats if you suggest he's cheating. Anytime the 48 does cheat (which is what, 3-10 times a year?), she (c) says NASCAR is out to get him because the sanctioning body is insanely jealous. She (d) violently hates any driver who beats Johnson outright (which is easy to if it comes down to driver talent). She (e) says Chase titles are worth more than real titles because Jimmie won them and if you think otherwise you're a crybaby, which is kind of ironic because she hated the Chase the first two years. She (f), if confronted, would resort to physical assault if you confront on these things, to the extent where yes she would throw deadly objects like knives or ceramic coffee mugs at you. Folks, I live at home with my parents, and this b-tch is my mother. - - - - - Good Lord Christ. What!? I thought my mother acted like a B---- at times *Saying one thing, then violently self-imploding when we don't do it to the letter*, but THAT is ridiculous! Now I feel really bad for you. Things like THAT hurt me as a NASCAR fan. And to think i had made a rant encouraging people to standup and get 'involved emotionally' with the sport... And one more thing, this is probably the second time this year I've seen a majority of us coming to fights and near-blows through our computers about racing, And what I love about the site? We all come back together like true fans, and see each other brother to brother. Well, I have almost no more to say. Just lots of insanity. Thanks again to the Webmaster for putting up with this insanity! I can not thank you and bless you enough! 714. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.07.2013 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Oh! One more thing. I was looking at NASCAR illustrated *I don't know if it was the issue for June or July*, but one interesting tidbit said that it was 70 percent likely that next year, the Fall Charlotte race would be swapped out for a second Las Vegas race. Please, shoot me dear god. I can not STAND Vegas! 715. jabber1990 posted: 07.07.2013 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can relate to you and your psycho mother, my stepdad got me interested in NASCAR circa 1998, now in 2013 (or as early as 2003) he got all complainy that I liked NASCAR. its a waste of my time and its something I shouldn't be interested in, "its ok to have outside interests as long as it doesn't affect or overrun your life" so he sits at home all day unemployed and watches Netflix all day 716. Mr X posted: 07.08.2013 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) If I were to to quantify Jimmie Johnson's talent level I would definitely say that his stats make him look better then he really is, not by a huge margin, but I certainly believe that the general stability of the 48 team has played a larger role in his success then any other factor. I think it's fairly safe to say that most if not all of us believe that Bobby Allison's numbers make him look worse then he really was, simply because he spent his entire career bouncing between teams, he was never in a stable situation for long if at all. Whilst I believe that there are several more talented drivers then Johnson who have spent most if not all their careers at one team namely Earnhardt and Gordon I feel the quality of the equipment definitely goes deeper then simply what shop it came out of. That to me is the difference between the 48 team and every other team for the last 20+ years. Personally I believe that changing a teams internal personell can have the same effect as a driver switching teams. Think about it, if you went into work tomorrow and everyone you work with was replaced with someone else it would be a very different place to work, whatever the output is, it would be different, workplace chemistry would have to be completely restablished regardless if all the equipment was the same. This is what has never happened with the 48 team. Virtually every major player important to team chemistry has never changed, car chief Ron Malec, crew chief Chad Knaus, and Jimmie have all been toqether since 2002, and spotter Earl Barban has been with the 48 team for years. Every major member of that team knows every other major member of the team like the back of their hand, they know how to work together as a team incredibly proficiently, the can communicate with each other better then their equals on any other NASCAR team in the garage area. In addition to that they are all extremely proficient at doing their jobs individually. No other team has hit on this combination, nevermind hit it almost year after year for a dozen of them. HMS has all the best equipment and tools to take the best raw materials and turn them into the best Sprint Cup car possible, but ultimately it takes a very particular group of people several years to create a dynasty, obviously with the help of a driver. Stick the wrong people or an inconsistent group of good people in the HMS shop and results may come, but a dynasty won't. If we believe that they always get away with cheating which they don't although they have been caught on more then a few occasions, or that NASCAR favours them then what seperates the 48 teams reign from any previous ones? Jimmie has driven for the same team for the last 12 years, no other driver has. Jeff Gordon is the only remaining member of the 2007 24 team, and Jeff hasn't had a team that has been truely as strong as the 48 has been since 2002 since 1999. Jeff only had that truely dominant combination from 1992 through 1999, at which point nearly every major 24 team member was replaced. Despite the fact that the car still came out of HMS and the number was still 24 it was a different team, and the output(the cars) were different, and everyone had to spend some time getting restablished including Jeff in 2000. The 24 went through this again in 2005, and again for 2011. During these periods many great statistics were lost due to circumstances, nevermind the fact that the main reason these team personell changes happened was because the team combination didn't work all that great in the first place. Jimmie has never experienced any personal heartaches outside of racing that Jeff hasn't, or at least they weren't really publicized if he did, he didn't race with Big E, go through a lengthy divorce, nor has he had any injuries that we know of. They only major negative that has happened to him personally is the plane crash in 2004, but all the HMS employees went through that aswell, by the way I'm probably not qualified to type about Jimmie's negative personal distractions. If I've omitted anything by all means correct me. Jimmie has never driven for HMS during an expansion period. How much focus was taken from the 24 team to create the 48? It's hard to say, but since then the 48 team certainly has only contributed some technical data to keep the other three HMS teams running 2nd through 4th. Jimmie has also never raced for HMS when they were anything less then a very close 2nd or 3rd on the totem pole to maybe JGR and/or RFR in 2005. HMS' worst year since Johnson's arrival IMO, and I don't believe that JJ has been the secret to that success either. Jeff competed with HMS during periods where they were much less the mega team they have been for the last decade or more, 1992 through 1994 for example, and I'm pretty sure one could argue that fellow General Motors team RCR was just as strong in 2000. Considering Johnson's career to this point has smaller numbers in it then Jeff did whilst driving for a super team for the entire time while Jeff didn't and put up those smaller on a smaller variety of tracks (he still doesn't look awfully at home on plate tracks and road courses) whilst making more on track errors during his prime despite stronger support from day one I personally find it impossible to put Johnson above Gordon. The same is true for Earnhardt as it is for Gordon, the 3 team went through many changes between 1984 and 2001. The most consistant factor was Dale Earhardt though, he was consistent outside of 1996 through 1999 when he had those lingering injuries just as Jeff did in 2008,9, & 10. Personally I think there are several drivers with similar talent levels to Johnson, but none of them have raced with the same group of extremely talented people for 12 years. Personally I don't believe drivers are streaky in terms of talent, I don't believe a driver can show up one year and run well, and then run poorly the next without either the team becoming weaker relative to the competition or some major mental or physical distraction. With the exception of a driver becoming more developed with experience, or losing their edge with age and time I don't believe a drivers talent level changes. In the case of some drivers what changes is the level of trust and commitment from the driver to the team. I don't think Kevin Harvick is streaky, I think his commitment level is lower then it should be when the team is struggling, and being as the driver has a far more binding contract then any other team member everyone else will be replaced before he does most of the time. I don't see how any team can be consistant year in and year out when everyone is spending most of their time learning how work with new people as opposed to getting down to the business of what actually wins races. The difference in commitment between Earnhardt and Harvick is greater then the difference in talent IMO. DSFF I believe you have said that Jeff would only have 40 wins or so driving for RCR, well I respectfully disagree, like Dale, Jeff is extremely commited and a little too so at the moment actually to developing his team. Part of me believes that Dale was more talented as he did look like an animal at the helm of his car, and Dale's personality would've been more codusive to aiding Richard make personell changes, with is something the Rick was better at to begin with and unlike Richard, Rick actually got better at it over time, unlike Richard who seems to have an unhealthy obsession with not bringing in anyone new, he'll just knock down one of his teams to take a stab at improving another, but back to my point Jeff could've done better then that at RCR. The Busch brothers, Hamlin, and numerous others, do have great talent but little commitment to the team, and the more arrogance I see from Jimmie, the more I doubt his given how he has never really had to experience HMS during anything less then a milk and cookies period. I do think Jimmie is one of the best drivers actively in NASCAR, and I don't wish him any harm, however I might throw a party if he and some critical 48 team members have a falling out. I truely hope that happens, I'll admit that, but he is hard to rank until then. 717. David posted: 07.08.2013 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I always have to miss the REAL good discussions. Darn it. 718. murb posted: 07.08.2013 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh! One more thing. I was looking at NASCAR illustrated *I don't know if it was the issue for June or July*, but one interesting tidbit said that it was 70 percent likely that next year, the Fall Charlotte race would be swapped out for a second Las Vegas race." I don't know what to think of this. On one hand I don't want to see it happen just because I don't like when things work out in Bruton "Boss Hog" Smith's favor. But at the same time, when you look at the Vegas race this year and compare it to the two Charlotte races this year, the Vegas race was considerably better. So I'm having a hard time deciding whether or not maybe a second race at Vegas (which might be decent now with the Gen 6) over another boring Charlotte race would be the way to go. It's just horrible how Nascar basically only listens to "Boss Hog" nowadays when it comes to changing the schedule. There are SO MANY other race tracks that are not Hog tracks that deserve Cup races (like Iowa and Road America). It's just stupid to keep rotating the same bland race tracks around. 719. The Long Shot posted: 07.08.2013 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "And one more thing, this is probably the second time this year I've seen a majority of us coming to fights and near-blows through our computers about racing, And what I love about the site? We all come back together like true fans, and see each other brother to brother." Couldn't agree more about that. Like I said before, the mutual respect that everybody has for each other is great. "I can relate to you and your psycho mother" Dude, don't call someone else's mother a psycho. That's just not right. 720. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.08.2013 - 1:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boss 'Hog', is purposely misspelled for Bruton, for obvious reasons. It really all comes down to whether County, or eventually state politicians want to pony up taxpayer money for CMS, including the Dragstrip which nobody wants. Boss Hog has held the County hostage before and he's doing it again. 721. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.08.2013 - 6:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Good Lord Christ. What!? I thought my mother acted like a B---- at times *Saying one thing, then violently self-imploding when we don't do it to the letter*, but THAT is ridiculous! Now I feel really bad for you. Things like THAT hurt me as a NASCAR fan. And to think i had made a rant encouraging people to standup and get 'involved emotionally' with the sport... And one more thing, this is probably the second time this year I've seen a majority of us coming to fights and near-blows through our computers about racing, And what I love about the site? We all come back together like true fans, and see each other brother to brother." I really didn't think we were at 'fights and near-blows.' It was a moment where some of us lapsed into our passions, but nothing I would have said "I'm done with this" over. Mr. X, it's sort of like Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson. When MJ was in town, Pippen and Jackson looked great and were part of 6 rings, but they looked relatively ordinary after MJ retired both times in spite of his own abilities. 722. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.08.2013 - 7:02 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "First Indy Lights race at Pocono since 1989 when some guy by the name of Tony George was still racing" Let me amend Ryan's comment from the Indy Lights race. First Indy Lights race at Pocono since 1989 when some dumb$#!* by the name of Tony George was still racing 723. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.08.2013 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (3) (2) I just found an interesting article that sounds like someone on here could've written: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jimmie-johnson-shows-hypocrisy-daytona-hes-willing-wreck-045200831.html After reading about Kahne and his anger over losing because of Johnson, I began to wonder if in a few years Kahne, Gordon, and Junior will get sick of watching Hendrick give Johnson far superior cars to the point that they will leave the team, bring JR Motorsports to Cup, and run as a three car team without Hendrick support. Of course, that would probably never happen, but a person could think about it. But, obviously, the problem with that would be that they would have to build their own engines and the team itself from the ground up if that would happen and also not be able to gain feedback from another team (like Stewart-Haas with Hendrick). But if it could work out well for each of them I'd love to see that happen. It just seems like each of the three have steadily grown tired of Johnson's lack of respect towards them the past few years (Kahne Saturday night, Gordon in 2010 with the run-ins at Texas and Talladega, and Earnhardt at the Daytona July race in 2011 when Johnson totally bailed as his tandem partner in the end by pitting by himself). 724. Baker posted: 07.08.2013 - 9:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) You argue my point that Johnson's stats make him look better than he is by giving me more stats? All those Top 10s are impressive, but again he has an elite car and elite team he had better be getting that many Top 10s. And we will agree to disagree then because it is plain as day Johnson folds anytime a driver has a car to keep the heat on Johnson. 725. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.08.2013 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, did you eat the bones? 726. jabber1990 posted: 07.08.2013 - 10:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am going to lighten the mood I saw a picture of one of those "goodyear racing" promos they have, they had a "class photo" of the sprint cup drivers who were going to race that season it had Mark Martin in a GoDaddy suit (vomits) and AJ Allmendinger in a Best Buy suit 727. Baker posted: 07.08.2013 - 11:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nico, I did not eat the bones. It would take an incredibly dumb human to eat the bones and not even realize it until after the meal. Not only are those commercials over done and I am just as tired of them as everyone else, but they were also never funny to begin with. As for the Las Vegas/Charlotte swap discussion I could care less. Both tracks are 1.5 mile tracks and there are already far too many in the chase. The only thing that I am going to care about at this point is that they diversify the chase a little more. I could careless if Charlotte losses a date. Yes, it is track with a lot of history but it doesn't compare to Martinsville, Darlington or North Wilksboro and its not like they are taking away the 600 like they F'd with tradition and moved the Southern 500. 728. Baker posted: 07.08.2013 - 11:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Random off stats: Jeff Burton started a full season after Jeff Gordon and missed 4 races his first 3 seasons, and yet he still leads Jeff Gordon in running at the finish 610 to 609. Seems like a lot of torn up race cars by Jeff to me. Richard Petty either won the race or finished runner up 357 times, yet he only finished on the lead lap 387 times. Only 30 times in his entire career of 1184 starts did he finish on the lead lap if he was not 1st or 2nd. It sounds like the ultimate boom or bust driver if that was all you knew, but we all know better and know his outrageous amounts of Top 5s and Top 10s. 729. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.08.2013 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Jeff Burton started a full season after Jeff Gordon and missed 4 races his first 3 seasons, and yet he still leads Jeff Gordon in running at the finish 610 to 609. Seems like a lot of torn up race cars by Jeff to me." Knowing that Roush and Childress have a history of sacrificing speed so as to have more reliability, this is a moot point. You could do that with lots of drivers, but it doesn't change the fact that Jeff Gordon frequently gets caught in wrecks not of his doing because he is lapping cars, unlike Jeff Burton who is usually the one getting lapped. 730. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.08.2013 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scary fact: I have a Chinese restaurant nearby where you fear the General Tso's Chicken because they always leave the bones in. 731. Baker posted: 07.08.2013 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wasn't pointing it out to put down Jeff Gordon. Yes you can do that with a lot of drivers, but not usually with 2 drivers who have spent most of their careers in the Top 10-15. 732. Baker posted: 07.08.2013 - 12:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) I fear the General Tso's Chicken at most Chinese places because they always leave the cat in it. 733. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2013 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, that stat about Richard Petty is not totally accurate. There were a number of races in which he competed in which he finished second, but was one or more laps behind the winner. One of those races was the famous 1976 Daytona 500. Everyone remembers the finish between Petty and David Pearson, but Petty's final lap was not scored, so he officially finished one lap behind Pearson. Back in that era, it was not uncommon for the race winner to be laps ahead of the field, especially on short tracks, so some of Petty's second place finishes came in races were he was one or more lap behind the winner. And three of Petty's seven Daytona 500 wins (1964, '66, '73) were scored with margins of victory of one or more laps (he won it by two laps in '73), and another one (1974) saw him just behind the second, third, and fourth place cars, but nearly a full lap ahead of them. In fact, from 1964-'76, the Daytona 500 winner finished on a lap of his own more often than not, including four out of five years from 1972-'76, and the other one saw a margin of victory of 47 seconds. 734. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Uh oh, Baker produced a stat that makes Gordon look like less than a Golden God. That is the cardinal sin on this site. Soon JG24Fan will show up with some random stats for Jeff, like a list of "Most Wins In Races With Chad Little In The Field" that will show Jeff way ahead of others. You know I love y'all in Rainbow Nation, and I love picking fun at you guys and your pretty boy midget driver even more. And don't worry, Jeff will make the chase this year, and anyone who disagrees (cjs) is wrong. 735. The Long Shot posted: 07.08.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Soon JG24Fan will show up with some random stats for Jeff, like a list of "Most Wins In Races With Chad Little In The Field" that will show Jeff way ahead of others." Most Wins In Races With Chad Little In The Field: 1. Jeff Gordon: 31 2. Dale Jarrett: 20 3. Dale Earnhardt: 19 4. Mark Martin: 18 5. Rusty Wallace: 17 6. Jeff Burton: 14 7. Bobby Labonte: 12 8. Davey Allison: 10 9. Harry Gant: 9 10. Darrell Waltrip: 8 Sorry, but I just had to do that. 736. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here you go Rainbow Nation, just to show how much respect I have for WonderBoy, here are some categories Gordon leads statistically Shortest champions in NASCAR history: 1) Jeff Gordon 4' 6" 2) Rex White 5' 1" 3) Little Joe Weatherly 5' 3" 4) Tony Stewart 5' 4" 5) Cale Yarborough 5' 6" Most times using the word "awesome" in interviews in NASCAR history 1) Jeff Gordon 319,416,401,704,107,808,687,909,193,947 2) Jimmie Johnson 5,040,512 3) Kasey Kahne 878,990 4) Elliott Sadler 98,020 5) Travis Pastrana 20,999 Most races won in which Earnhardt was too hung over to drive, er, I mean blacked out in 1) Jeff Gordon 1 T-2) Everyone else in history 0 737. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.08.2013 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Morgan Shepherd will attempt the cup race this week in the Keselowski's #52 car. Right now 43 cars are entered, so assumming there's no late entries Shepherd, at 71 years of age, will set the new record for oldest driver to win a cup race. 738. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2013 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! Big time respect @TheLongShot. That is great. And I knew Jeff would be way ahead! 739. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.08.2013 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^obviously I meant oldest driver to START a cup race, not win. 740. The Long Shot posted: 07.08.2013 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those are remarkable stats, DSFF. If I didn't know better, I would have thought you had made them up. 741. Scott B posted: 07.08.2013 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^^^ Well we can hope for a Shep win on Sunday. What'll the Vegas odds be? ---and--- Least Cup wins with Chad Little in the field: 1.(tied) Chad Little, Zero. One great season in Busch (1995), and then *poof*... nothing. 742. joey2448 posted: 07.08.2013 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LOL, good one DSFF and Long Shot. JG24Fan, as much as I love his stats, does produce some strange numbers. 743. 18fan posted: 07.08.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott B's stat about Chad Little had me laughing pretty hard. I don't know where he'd rank, but Chad Little is near the bottom of the list of Top 5s with Chad Little in the field, since he had 1. 744. TS1420 posted: 07.08.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh! One more thing. I was looking at NASCAR illustrated *I don't know if it was the issue for June or July*, but one interesting tidbit said that it was 70 percent likely that next year, the Fall Charlotte race would be swapped out for a second Las Vegas race. Please, shoot me dear god. I can not STAND Vegas!" If they are gonna have a 2nd race at Las Vegas, they should have it at the little bullring asphalt oval, dirt track or that makeshift half parking lot road course outside the track, not the 1.5 mile "/Cubic Zirconia in the Wastelands/". 745. jabber1990 posted: 07.08.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this is the same Chad Little that's running the Truck Series right? 746. 18fan posted: 07.08.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes it is jabber. 747. joey2448 posted: 07.08.2013 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Chad's son, Jesse Little, is currently running in the K&N Pro Series East this year, as a 16-year-old. 748. 83andJoe posted: 07.08.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Go go Morgan Shepherd! >I fear the General Tso's Chicken at most Chinese places because they always leave the cat in it. There's a cat in the kettle at the Peking Moon The place that I eat every day at noon... 749. Watto posted: 07.08.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You could do that with lots of drivers, but it doesn't change the fact that Jeff Gordon frequently gets caught in wrecks not of his doing because he is lapping cars, unlike Jeff Burton who is usually the one getting lapped." Actually, you're more likely to get wrecked running midpack than you are running up front lapping cars. Lapped cars give way, midpack has serious hard racing. It's no secret that it's easier racing up front than brawling midpack. Since you've watched racing for a while, I'm sure you've heard driver after driver after driver talk about that. Also, I might as well point out that Jeff Burton has 4 top 5 points finishes and 8 top 10 points finishes. This is not some lapper trash for the bulk of his career. Of course, though, the "racing at finish" stat can be deceiving because of so many different variables. I'm just disagreeing with your reasoning - as that is just a bad excuse. 750. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2013 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Gordon can into the Chase this year only by getting into the top ten in points, because his cars are incapable of winning any races. Now with those at the bottom of the top ten condensing in points, it's certainly doable for someone of his ability, I just don't see it happening. There are other drivers that can get in either through winning a race or by getting into the top ten, but Gordon can get in only by being in he top ten, and with so many others around him running better I just don't see it happening, but if there's one driver capable of pulling it off, it's Gordon, but I jut don't see it. I can see Gordon dropping as low as 17th as easily as I can see him getting into the top ten. He can get into the to ten, but I think Indy, Pocono, and Michigan are going to crush Gordon's chances, because you need speed at those three tracks, and that's the one thing Gordon doesn't have. Like I've said, he and the #24 team are on an island at Hendrick Motorsports, with no real place to get assistance, which he's more likely to get through Stewart-Haas Racing more than the other HMS teams. 751. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.08.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) cjs, you spewed that same garbage last year and Jeff lucked into one win and DID have the flat out speed to win another. 752. The Long Shot posted: 07.08.2013 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Some more random stats for you all: Most Excuses By One Person As To Why Jeff Gordon Will Not Make The Chase: 1. cjs3872: 5,000,001 2. Everybody Else: 0 Percentage Chance of Anyone On This Site Ever Getting A Girlfriend: 1. Everybody: 0.000000% Most Poundings Ever Given To One Person On This Site: 1. NicoRosbergFan to Long Shot: 478 (soon to be 479) 2. Everybody Else: 0 753. The Long Shot posted: 07.08.2013 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Oh, by the way, look out everybody: Steve Wallace is entered in this week's Truck Series race at Iowa, running the #97 truck for owner Gary Adrian. With "John Wrecks Weekly" also in the field, I think it's safe to say we are going to have a LOT of wrecks this Friday. 754. Jim Davis posted: 07.08.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) You have to hand it to Jennifer Jo Cobb. The truck series has been having trouble filling fields all year long so she enters 3 trucks at Iowa this weekend, one '11 Ford, one '10 Chevy, one '12 Dodge. She's not one to leave money on the table. 755. cjs3872 posted: 07.08.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're half-right, NicoRosbergFan. He lucked into the win at Pocono. But he didn't have the speed the win at Homestead. Kyle Busch and Martin Truex, Jr. didn't have the sense to pit under the last caution, and even though they were half a lap ahead of Gordon, it didn't matter, since they had to pit. And Gordon still wouldn't have won if not for Jimmie Johnson's pit road miscue, though he would have run second. But he ran better last year than he has this year. If had the luck this year that he had last year, we wouldn't even be having this discussion, because he'd be down where Menard and Burton are in the points. But one other thing. Gordon's gotten off to lousy starts in each of his three years with Alan Gustafson as his crew chief. Even in 2011, when he won three times, he got off to a dreadful start, at that time, the worst of his career, and turned it around partially because other teams were experimenting for the Chase. After the 12th race of that season, he was 16th in points, but rallied starting with Kansas, and his win at Pocono, his second that season, locked a spot in the Chase for him. So even in 2011, he got off to a dreadful start. But one thing I think is different between last year and this year is that HMS put their full weight behind Gordon's run to get into the Chase late in the "regular season" last year. Last year at about this time, Johnson, Kahne, and Dale, Jr. were all locks for the Chase, with Dale, Jr. and Jimmie batting for the point lead. But with Kasey Kahne being on shaky ground and Dale, Jr. winless this season, that's doubtful to happen unless something changes, because the #24 team is on the bottom of the totem pole at HMS, and will be for quite some time. So I don't expect much effort being focused on the #24 team until Kahne is on more solid footing and Dale, Jr. wins a race. If those things happen, then I think we'll see the #24 run better because more emphasis will be put on that car, but not until then. Hendrick wants his flagship #5 car on better footing, as well as Dale, Jr. in victory lane before focus is put on the #24 car. That's the way it was last year, and that's the way it's going to be for the foreseeable future. 756. Josh C posted: 07.08.2013 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of I was Kasey Kahne or Marcos Ambrose, Jimmie and I would have a little tussel. 757. 83andJoe posted: 07.08.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meanwhile, Kyle Busch swept all three practice sessions today for the Howie Lettow Memorial 150. 758. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.08.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a question that always bothered me with the Gen. 5 cars and now the Gen. 6 cars...How come NASCAR won't let the manufacturers run the actual grille openings that would match the production cars instead of them just being stickers (or in Ford's case actual grille bars but with no opening)? It wasn't this way with the Gen. 4 cars was it? This is especially disappointing with the Gen. 6 cars since they are based so heavily on the production model. 759. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2013 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Those are some interesting and well thought out points, cjs, as to the 24's chances at making the chase, and I respect your view points. Now here is my rebuttal: Jeff Gordon drives the 24, and they will make the chase, and anyone who disagrees is wrong. 760. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.08.2013 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I was just wondering if y'all had a top 50 list of greatest drives ever who would be on it. Here is mine that I put together using an equation that I came up with. I know some of y'all won't like it because it's based solely on numbers and not on analyzing other things such as competitiveness of the time period and superiority of a particular team/manufacturer. 1. Richard Petty 81.5 2. Jeff Gordon 50.25 3. Dale Earnhardt 46.4 4. David Pearson 45.753 5. Jimmie Johnson 42 6. Cale Yarborough 40.375 7. Bobby Allison 36.75 8. Darrell Waltrip 36.3 9. Herb Thomas 33.4 10. Lee Petty 23.2 11. Tony Stewart 21.6 12. Bill Elliott 20.7 13. Buck Baker 20.001 14. Ned Jarrett 18.9 15. Rusty Wallace 17.65 16. Dale Jarrett 17.1 17. Mark Martin 14.9 18. Tim Flock 14.75 19. Junior Johnson 14.7 20. Matt Kenseth 14.6 21. Terry Labonte 13.3 22. Fireball Roberts 13.25 23. Buddy Baker 12.375 24. Bobby Isaac 11.75 25. Davey Allison 11.5 26. Joe Weatherly 11.25 27. Bobby Labonte 10.55 28. Fred Lorenzen 10.334 29. Kevin Harvick 10.25 30. Benny Parsons 10.125 31. Kurt Busch 9.9 32. Fonty Flock 9.57 33. Rex White 9.5 34. Jim Paschal 9.05 35. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 8.35 36. Kyle Busch 7.9 37. Marvin Panch 7.85 38. Jeff Burton 7.35 39. LeeRoy Yarbrough 7.334 40. Neil Bonnett 7.125 41. Geoffrey Bodine 6.7 42. Harry Gant 6.6 43. Kasey Kahne 6.55 44. Ricky Rudd 6.45 45. Speedy Thompson 6.4 46. Denny Hamlin 6.2 47. Ryan Newman 6.2 48. Sterling Marlin 6.2 49. Brad Keselowski 6.15 50. Greg Biffle 6.15 Equation I used (in general): Number of wins count as 1 point a piece and are 25% of the score, number of championships count as 10 points a piece and are 25% of the score, number of Daytona 500 wins are counted as 10 points a piece and count as 15% of the score, Winston 500/Aaron's 449, Southern 500, All-Star Race, Coca-Cola 600/World 600, and Brickyard 400 wins count as 10 points a piece and are worth a combined 35% of the overall score. Also, if a driver never had a chance to run a particular race, then the percentages are adjusted to reflect that. Ties a broken by 1. number of championships 2. number of wins 3. number of Daytona 500s 4. number of other crown jewels 5. number of second place finishes on down. 761. ch posted: 07.08.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You have to hand it to Jennifer Jo Cobb. The truck series has been having trouble filling fields all year long so she enters 3 trucks at Iowa this weekend, one '11 Ford, one '10 Chevy, one '12 Dodge. She's not one to leave money on the table." I'm pretty sure that the #02 is not JJC's and that Jayski's list is off. The list also says the #93's owner is Ricky Benton (Owner of the #92). I wouldn't be surprised if it changes. If I were her though, or Norm Benning / Ryan Sieg / T3R Motorsports, I would be entering a backup truck to fill up the field. 762. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2013 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "But he didn't have the speed the win at Homestead." Actually you are missing the true reason Jeff won Homestead. It had been over 5 years since I was truly pissed off about a Gordon win. You have to understand, from the middle of '95 through Fall Dega '07, EVERY Gordon win pissed me off. Sometimes the universe needs to revert back to normal, and that is what happened in that race. With the events of the previous week, and the movement led by me to have Jeff suspended for his 20th anniversary race, hung by his toenails, and officially proclaimed as washed up, seeing him in victory lane made me angry for a few seconds even though I was over the moon about Brad's title. Here was my thought process after Jeff's 5 previous wins prior to Homestead: Texas 2009: Good, now we won't have to hear about Jeff's winless streak every freaking week anymore Phoenix 2011: I can't stand Kyle Busch, I'm glad Gordon passed him in the end by roughing him up and showing Kyle he isn't all that. Pocono 2011: I can't stand Kurt Busch, glad Gordon won instead of KuBu. Atlanta 2011: I can't stand Jimmie Johnson, I am glad that in an epic slip sliding battle of wills, Jeff straight up beat JJ. Pocono 2012: This may have been the biggest fluke win ever, but with the luck Gordon has had this year, good for him. Now contrast that to my thought process after all his 2007 wins: Phoenix: This is the worst day of my life, I knew this day was coming, and it is even worse than I imagined. That lucky little shit should have been trapped a lap down, but the caution fell at the exact right SECOND for him. And jeez almighty Jeff, turn the car around and let the 3 flag face the fans. Talladega, April 29: I just thought Phoenix was the worst day of my life. Passing Dale on his birthday at his most successful track? You couldn't have created a worse situation. Darlington: HE HAS ON OLDER TIRES AND HIS MOTOR HAS BEEN OVERHEATING FOR THE PAST TWO HOURS! How the HELL does he keep winning these races. Luckiest bastard ever. Pocono: You have got to be kidding me. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! It starts raining the EXACT SECOND he is in the process of getting passed? Why does God hate everyone except Jeff Gordon? Charlotte: How lucky can one asshole be? Ryan was gonna pass him and his tire blew. God didn't create rainbows as a peace offering after the flood, he created them cause he is a Gordon fan! Fall Dega: That's just great, Jeff will get #5 this year, and eventually get 7. *epic stream of profanities that would make Tony Stewart blush* So see, Jeff won Homestead because Wee Man had to make me angry again, it had been way overdue. Throw in the previous week at Phoenix, I was SO excited when it looked like Jeff was under the pile of Bowyer's crewmen, and SO disappointed when I realized he wasn't, it was the will of the universe. 763. murb posted: 07.08.2013 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I died laughing at the "Most Wins When Chad Little Is In The Field" stat. You guys are just the best. All of you. 764. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.08.2013 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "I know some of y'all won't like it because it's based solely on numbers and not on analyzing other things such as competitiveness of the time period and superiority of a particular team/manufacturer." Oh yeah! Here are my thoughts on a few of those. "2. Jeff Gordon 50.25 3. Dale Earnhardt 46.4 4. David Pearson 45.753" Gordon ahead of Earnhardt AND Pearson? Negative Ghost Rider. "5. Jimmie Johnson 42 6. Cale Yarborough 40.375 7. Bobby Allison 36.75" I think I might puke. Need the Donny Lia bucket. "29. Kevin Harvick 10.25 30. Benny Parsons 10.125" AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! "35. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 8.35" So there is no "Went Four Years Without Winning While His Teammate Won Three Championships" penalty? "41. Geoffrey Bodine 6.7 42. Harry Gant 6.6" Yes, I rank Bodine ahead of Gant too. But damn that still hurts to see. 765. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2013 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I agree with you on this. If the #24 team makes the Chase, it will be because, and only because of Jeff Gordon. If someone else was driving that car this year (say, Kasey Kahne), it might be below 20th in points. He continues to be the only really good thing that team has. And by the way, on those five wins Gordon had prior to the season finale last year that you listed, he beat Jimmie Johnson head-to-head in two of them. As I've continuously said, give Gordon and Johnson equal cars and close to equal pit crews, and I'll take Gordon on most tracks any day and twice on Sunday. Unfortunately, he doesn't have that right now, despite racing for the same organization. I think one reason some of the brass at HMS doesn't want to see Gordon succeed these days was the way he took Johnson to task in 2010. Johnson raced him dirty at Texas and viciously blocked him at Talladega, eventually causing him to crash, and Gordon called Johnson out publicly on both situations, something nobody else at HMS would do. In fact, if it had been Gordon, and not Kahne racing for the lead late and Johnson did what he did, Gordon would have called him out on that. And I don't think the higher-ups at HMS want anyone to criticize anything about the #48 team. Remember the critical comments that Alan Gustafson, Jeff Gordon's crew chief, had for Chad Knaus at Daytona last year on pole day for the Daytona 500 regarding Knaus' latest brush with the inspectors? (I don't think he's had one since then.) I don't think HMS has forgotten about that, either. Those comments are one reason why I say Gordon's on an island at HMS, because they didn't like Knaus getting criticized by another HMS crew chief, much less Jeff Gordon's crew chief, any more than they like Johnson getting called out by another Hendrick driver, as Gordon, and only Gordon has done. But back to your comment, DSFF. If Gordon makes the Chase this year, it will be he who carries that team into the Chase, because they're not likely to get help from anywhere else at HMS. I personally think that if he finds speed, he can rally that team to seventh or eighth in points by the end of the 26th race, despite his problems this year. And as much as I'd like to see that, because the 12 best drivers should be in the Chase, and he's certainly in that group, I just don't see the cooperation within HMS to get him there. But all things being equal, he's a driver that everyone should be concerned about, and he should make the Chase. I just don't think he's going to. By the end of the race at Michigan, I think we'll know what his chances are, because I certainly like his chances to run near the front at both Bristol and Atlanta. If he's in the top 14 in points and within 15-20 of tenth, I think he'll make it into the top 10, possibly before Richmond. 766. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.09.2013 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh yeah! Here are my thoughts on a few of those. 2. Jeff Gordon 50.25 3. Dale Earnhardt 46.4 4. David Pearson 45.753 Gordon ahead of Earnhardt AND Pearson? Negative Ghost Rider." If Earnhardt had closed one or two more of those 500s and if Pearson had run full seasons they both would easily be ahead of Gordon. As it is, they didn't and as such my system (which you don't have to like of course but it is objective) rewards Gordon more than them. "5. Jimmie Johnson 42 6. Cale Yarborough 40.375 7. Bobby Allison 36.75" I think I might puke. Need the Donny Lia bucket." It's the fact that Johnson has 2 more championships than Yarborough and 4 more than Allison that causes this to happen. "29. Kevin Harvick 10.25 30. Benny Parsons 10.125 AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!" Like it or not Harvick has won more races and won more crown jewels than BP, thus he edges him out. "35. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 8.35 So there is no "Went Four Years Without Winning While His Teammate Won Three Championships" penalty?" Johnson only won 2 championships during Earnhardt's winless years, but Jr. was one of the best drivers in 2003, 2004, and 2006 which helped contribute to his high ranking. "41. Geoffrey Bodine 6.7 42. Harry Gant 6.6 Yes, I rank Bodine ahead of Gant too. But damn that still hurts to see." If Gan't had just won one more race you wouldn't have to see this. 767. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.09.2013 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CORRECTION: Harvick and BP have the same amount of wins, but the fact that Harvick has a Daytona 500+5 other crown jewels outweighs BP's championship, Daytona 500, and Coke 600 win. I don't particularly like this either but when I came up with the system I had to do something objective because analyzing things you are undoubtedly going to put your own opinion in there. Numbers are the most objective thing there can be. 768. David posted: 07.09.2013 - 3:13 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I am checking in sporadically, mainly because we are travelling this week. I am enjoying most of these comments. Thanks for the laughs. HTML Coding Nutcase Rating: 1. The Long Shot - 73.4 2. NicoRosbergFan - 70.8 3. David - 64.9 (All others are non-applicable) Most Vicious Anti-Satire Rants: 1. murb - 6,374 2. Everyone Else's Combined - about 1 769. murb posted: 07.09.2013 - 4:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Most Vicious Anti-Satire Rants: 1. murb - 6,374" lol, It's probably more than that. 770. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 5:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chase championships should only count for 25% of a regular title, Zachary, because a driver only has to be half-way decent (and with the Chase, half-way decent is all you need because of the asinine points reset). HTML Coding Nutcase Rating (amended): 1. The Long Shot - 93.4 2. NicoRosbergFan - 70.2 3. David - 69.9 4. DSFF - 2.6 (All others are non-applicable) *Hands Donny Lia bucket to DSFF, as part of RR duties* 771. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 5:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) cjs, if all things were equal at Hendrick, Jeff would have won the 2007 and 2009 (with one, making Brian France commit suicide and rid us of that monster) titles. I think it suffices... Holy @#$#! DSFF and cjs agree on something!!! 772. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.09.2013 - 5:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Chase championships should only count for 25% of a regular title, Zachary, because a driver only has to be half-way decent (and with the Chase, half-way decent is all you need because of the asinine points reset)." I don't like the Chase, but it's not the only ridiculous format NASCAR has had over the years. The one that was based on money, in particular, comes to mind. There was also one based on leading laps that rewarded point depending on how large the track was, as well. 773. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 8:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Will people get this through their heads? There NEVER was a system based on money. There was a point bias toward bigger money races, but the driver with the most money didn't automatically win the title. Yes, the driver with the most money usually won, but that rule holds even now in most years. There was the point bias toward higher money, but if you look there are many years in the 50s and 60s where the drivers with more money were behind drivers with less. It's hard to use current years because in the Chase era NASCAR has counted driver's post-season bonus checks toward their earnings. The only year that was actually based on money was the infamous 1974 points system that used a supercomputer to calculate the points, but even that wasn't based on money, but rather Daytona (which paid the most money, nevertheless). "There was also one based on leading laps that rewarded point depending on how large the track was, as well. " Actually it as based on RUNNING laps depending on how large the track was, which is how Benny, albeit very deserving for being such an awesome human being, won the title in 73. 774. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 8:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) How's about this? cjs predicted that Ricky Stenhouse would lay an egg this year, which he has. However, Stenhouse has only wrecked himself into the garage once this year. 775. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2013 - 9:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, there's another thing that aided Benny Parsons in winning the championship in 1973. That year, there was a 25 point bonus for winning a race on top of the points that were awarded based on laps completed. But fully half the races that year were won by drivers that did not run the full season, 11 of which were won by David Pearson. As a result, those drivers, such as Pearson, Mark Donohue, Dick Brooks, and even Bobby Allison, who won twice but spent the month of May at Indy after wrecking at Talladega, took those bonus points away from Richard Petty and Cale Yarborough, who needed them for their championship efforts, and by taking points away from Petty and Yarborough, they actually aided the efforts of drivers like Parsons, James Hylton, and Cecil Gordon, which was what helped Parsons eventually take the title, in spite of his own problems in the season finale at Rockingham, which happened to be owned by his car owner, L.G. DeWitt. 776. Jim Davis posted: 07.09.2013 - 10:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm pretty sure that the #02 is not JJC's and that Jayski's list is off. The list also says the #93's owner is Ricky Benton (Owner of the #92). I wouldn't be surprised if it changes." Right you are, sir! Other sources list the owner of the #02 as Randy Young and the #93 as Pam Sieg. 777. The Long Shot posted: 07.09.2013 - 10:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "cjs, if all things were equal at Hendrick, Jeff would have won the 2007 and 2009 (with one, making Brian France commit suicide and rid us of that monster) titles." 2007, without a doubt, but I'm not so sure about 2009. If all things were equal at Hendrick, I think Mark Martin would have won the championship. "HTML Coding Nutcase Rating: 1. The Long Shot - 73.4 2. NicoRosbergFan - 70.8 3. David - 64.9 (All others are non-applicable)" "HTML Coding Nutcase Rating (amended): 1. The Long Shot - 93.4 2. NicoRosbergFan - 70.2 3. David - 69.9 4. DSFF - 2.6 (All others are non-applicable)" And if you two keep popping off like that, here's another stat that you'll probably need to know. Most Years Of Karate Training: 1. The Long Shot: 8 years 2. David/NicoRosbergFan: 0 years 3. Everyone Else: 0 years, but it doesn't matter since you're the only ones I'll be targeting 778. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 10:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most wins with Rick Carelli in the field: 1. Geoffrey Bodine and Ernie Irvan, 2 (tied) 2. Davey Allison, Terry Labonte, Dale Earnhardt, Rusty Wallace, and Mark Martin, 1 (tied) 779. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "HTML Coding Nutcase Rating (amended): 1. The Long Shot - 93.4 2. NicoRosbergFan - 70.2 3. David - 69.9 4. DSFF - 2.6 (All others are non-applicable)" HTML Coding Nutcase Rating (twice amended): 1. The Long Shot - 93.4 2. NicoRosbergFan - 70.2 3. David - 69.9 4. DSFF - 2.6 5. NoLongerAnonymous - 0.1 (All others are non-applicable) I once tried to submit an image with HTML image tags. Needless to say, it didn't go through. 780. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most Years Of Karate Training (amended): 1. The Long Shot: 8 years 2. NicoRosbergFan: 1 year 3. David: 0 years 4. Everyone Else: 0 years, but it doesn't matter since you're the only ones I'll be targeting 781. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most Poundings Ever Given To One Person On This Site (amended): 1. NicoRosbergFan to Long Shot: 1235 (soon to be 1236) 2. NicoRosbergFan to Young Lad David: 16 3. Everybody Else: 0 782. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most wins under the Obama administration: 1. Jimmie Johnson - 24 2. Denny Hamlin - 18 3. Tony Stewart - 15 4. Kyle Busch - 14 5. Matt Kenseth - 12 6. Kevin Harvick - 10 7. Brad Keselowski - 9 8. Clint Bowyer - 6 8. Kurt Busch - 6 8. Jeff Gordon - 6 8. Kasey Kahne - 6 12. Greg Biffle - 5 12. Mark Martin - 5 14. Carl Edwards - 4 14. Jamie McMurray - 4 16. Ryan Newman - 3 17. Marcos Ambrose - 2 17. Joey Logano - 2 17. David Ragan - 2 17. David Reutimann - 2 21. Trevor Bayne - 1 21. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. - 1 21. Paul Menard - 1 21. Juan Pablo Montoya - 1 21. Regan Smith - 1 21. Martin Truex, Jr. - 1 21. Brian Vickers - 1 Clearly, Obama is responsible for 24 of Johnson's wins. Also note that no driver with a first name beginning with a vowel has won under the Obama administration. This is especially bad news for A.J. Allmendinger, Aric Almirola, and Austin Dillon. It looks like the Austin Dillon #3 car will have to wait until 2017 at least to visit victory lane. #StatSarcasmOnRacingReference 783. The Long Shot posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, so you have taken karate? Not bad, not bad. What rank are you/were you? 784. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch leads final practice for the Howie Lettow Memorial 150 at the Milwaukee Mile at 28.841sec. 785. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't even get a belt because I never got a uniform. I was white, most likely. 786. The Long Shot posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Most Poundings Ever Given To One Person On This Site (re-amended): 1. NicoRosbergFan to Long Shot: 1236 (soon to be 5739) 2. NicoRosbergFan to Young Lad David: 16 3. Everybody Else: 0 "I didn't even get a belt because I never got a uniform. I was white, most likely." You were in karate for a year, and you never got a uniform? Strange. Was it a custom to train without a uniform, or did you actually just take 3-4 classes over the span of a year and made it sound like you had trained for a year? 787. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) (a) My parents couldn't afford the uniform (b) I know I did it for at least a few months... I don't know much... I was SIX at the time. 788. David posted: 07.09.2013 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unlike others, DSFF actually uses his HTML coding for clever purposes. That's why I left him off the list. 789. The Long Shot posted: 07.09.2013 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah, okay. That's understandable. I think I was about the same age when I started. 790. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, read my blog and say that again. 791. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Time spent being immature on this site: 1. NicoRosbergFan 2. The Long Shot 3. David 4. cjs *rimshot* 5. Baker *rimshot* 6. Everyone else 792. Paul posted: 07.09.2013 - 12:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy to see Morgan Shepherd get another shot at a Cup race, where he should become the oldest Cup driver ever at 71 years old. Obviously a win is out of the question, but if he can finish the race, that would be quite the accomplishment in and of itself. @777, Mark may have won 5 races and finished 2nd in points in 2009 after the points reset, but he was very inconsistent that season. It wasn't until the Chase started that he was able to be in the top ten in points for three straight weeks, and I think without the Chase he would have finished 5th in the points. Gordon would have had a better argument for the 2009 title because he was incredibly consistent, led the series in top tens, and was 2nd in points heading into the Chase (Johnson was 3rd). Not to mention the fact that he did all that with an injured back, along with two bad wrecks (spring Dover, Watkins Glen) that only further injured him. To finish 3rd in points (2nd without the reset) after all that is a testament to how tough a competitor Jeff Gordon really is, and we can only wonder what might have happened if he had been at full strength that year. 793. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Hendrick proves he's a pRick and asks rules to be changed 794. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Damn, Gordon couldn't even win a race with Rick Carelli in the field? That proves once and for all he is overrated. What a choker. When Rick Carelli is in the field, that means every driver must step up their game because it automatically becomes a grand slam event. Jeez Jeff. And the two best? One of my favorites, Swervin Irvan, and smart mouth know it all arrogant jerk Yankee bastard wheelman Geoff Bodine with 2 each. 795. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Do I get credit for being a pioneer in bringing html to this site with my witty (if I do say so myself lol) strikethrough quips? Much like Jeff broke ground by beoming the first driver to 3peat in the Southern 500 in '97 in a race where Dale was too hung over to even complete one lap mysteriously blacked out, I broke ground here. 796. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Qualifying underway at Milwaukee. 797. Paul posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rick Carelli may not have had success in Cup (tough to achieve success when you only make 9 starts), but he was a beast racing in various regional racing series on the West Coast, winning the 1991 Southwest Tour title and the 1993 Winston West Series title. He was also a darn good Truck Series driver during the early years of that series, winning 4 races in five seasons while driving for small-time teams. He even served as his own crew chief for a number of races later in his career. 798. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 26 cars into qualifying, John Hunter Nemechek on provisional pole. Kyle runs next... 799. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...and Kyle stomps the track record. 800. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, how about Kurt Busch? The only thing he accomplished with Dale Earnhardt in the field was getting show the secondary pointer finger. 801. 18fan posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale's crew laughing after Dale flipped off Kurt is pretty cool. 802. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Milwaukee qualifying on hold after 30 of 61 cars have run due to a thunderstorm.. 1. Kyle Busch 2. John Hunter Nemechek 3. Chris Wimmer 4. Matt Kocourek 5. Brett Moffitt 6. Becca Kasten 7. Chad Finley 8. Jacob Goede 9. Johnny VanDoorn 10. Jeff Storm 11. Mark Kraus 12. Matt Kenseth 13. Cardell Potter 14. Kenny Wallace 15. Jeremy Lepak 16. Trey Mitchell 17. Dan Fredrickson 18. Brandon Hermiller 19. David Stremme 20. Eddie Hoffman 21. Travis Dassow 22. Rich Bickle 23. Ross Kenseth 24. Andy Monday 25. Erik Darnell 26. Dennis Prunty The top 26 lock in on time, everyone else has to run the last chance race and/or hope for a provisional. 27. Kyle Calmes 28. Bobby Kendall 29. Brent Kirchner 30. Brad Dahmer Among those left to run are Garrett Evans, David Ragan, Joe Nemechek, Mason Mingus, Erik Jones, Travis Sauter and Johnny Sauter. 803. murb posted: 07.09.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know this totally won't happen, but it would be so awesome if the Wood Brothers let Morgan Shepard get in their car for one more race (one of the ones Trevor isn't driving). The nostalgia/epic meter would be off the charts. Anyway, cool to see that Morgan will be breaking the "oldest driver in a Cup race" record finally. 804. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 07.09.2013 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) just think I should give my opinion on Gordon making the chase. I will follow DSFF's lead and say he makes it because he is Jeff Gordon.Obviously the next 2 weeks will be key for Gordon as Loudon and Indy are 2 of his top 5 or 6 tracks best tracks, he has been just as good if not better without Evernham at them.Plus Gustafson is at his best in terms of car set-up on flat tracks. Johnson to the annoyance of most on this site is actually more dominant now than during his first 6 years in the sport.He leads more laps now at a greater variety of tracks now than he used to. In 07 he won 10 times but only led the most laps in 1 of those and of his first 33 wins he led the most laps only 8 times.In his last 10 wins he has led the most laps 9 times. Also I know I don't know as much about nascar as you guys being late to the party and being from Ireland but just want to say as someone who has experienced mental health issues in the last 18 months, this site and the banter and discussions on it have sometimes helped to keep me going over the past year or so thanks to DSFF Cjs Murb Paul NicoRosbergfan Joey24 18 fan JG24fan jabber1990 83and JOE David and anyone else I may have left out for helping to fuel the passion and debate on this website. Sincere thanks Colm (my real name) 805. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2013 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That would be cool to see Morgan in the #21 painted in that underrated painst scheme that was white with the red trim. There was a great pre race piece done on the old and kick ass ESPN back in 1993 showing Morgan watching a TV shortly after his Atlanta win in the #21 car, and TV is talking about how black cars are all the rage now with the success of Dale, Rusty, Davey, and they may have mentioned Kyle, all of whom drove black cars. Eventually Morgan just turned the TV off and walked out. A really fun piece. Something else I found on YouTube, back in 1989, I was watching a feature narrated by Ken Squire and Neil Bonnett was driving for the Wood Brothers at the time but was injured and couldn't run the Fall Charlotte race (or as we know it now, the beginning of Dale's only championship collapse in 8 attempts) and they needed a substitute. So the Woods let David Pearson test the car out for a number of laps to see of his back could hold out (it couldn't). Ken was raving about what an emotional moment that was to see The Fox back behind the wheel of the Wood's #21 car, even if just during a testing session. Can you imagine if his back were better and could have run one last race for them? 806. 18fan posted: 07.09.2013 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was the intro for the 1993 spring race at Darlington where the theme was "Black is Back". Morgan was in the top 10 seemingly every week for a few years in the Wood Brothers car and then they replaced him with Michael Waltrip, who did little in his three years other than winning The Winston. 807. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.09.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #793, that's just typical Rick Hendrick defending "He Who Can Do No Wrong." Pretty much everyone (including some journalists) see this type of attitude from him yet Hendrick doesn't. If Johnson raced for a team like Joe Gibbs, I could see Gibbs being a good enough person to admit Johnson was wrong and help to try to change Johnson's ego problem, instead of Hendrick who only seems to feed it. 808. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder what 83andJoe's name will be next year... 809. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Depends on where Reutimann goes. ;) 810. cjs3872 posted: 07.09.2013 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, they (the Wood Brothers) probably released Morgan Shepherd because of his age. He was 54 at the end of his last season there. (He was born two months before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.) And it's ironic that Shepherd's name comes up as the series returns to Loudon, because Shepherd finished second in the 1995 race there to Jeff Gordon. Who would have believed that 18 years later, both might be sharing the track again, but Shepherd has basically become the east coast's version of Hershel McGriff, because neither is/was willing to give it up, and have shown that, given the right circumstances, still can/could get it done into their 70s. It would not surprise me that, if in a somewhat competitive car, that Shepherd could still run faster than some of the other drivers today. In the years that they ran a full schedule, the Wood Brothers ran the best in the years Shepherd drove for them, and that's indisputable. Shepherd also brought Bud Moore's team back after the disastrous run Brett Bodine had for the team, even leading the points in 1990 for a short time, and returning them to some degree of prominence. If he had a good car, he'd put it at or near the front of the field, despite the fact that he won only four times in the Cup Series. 811. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After a rain delay and two support races, qualifying at Milwaukee is underway again. 812. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) ^So? 813. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch has won the pole for the Howie Lettow Memorial 150, posting a new track record of 125.457. Top ten is Busch, John Hunter Nemechek, Chris Wimmer, Matt Kocourek, Brett Moffitt, Griffin McGrath, Becca Kasten, Chad Finley, Travis Sauter and Jacob Goede. 814. 13 posted: 07.09.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where did Ragan qualify? 815. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnny Sauter 15th, Matt Kenseth 16th, David Ragan 17th, Kenny Wallace 19th, Joe Nemechek 22nd. Official lineup hasn't been posted yet, but my my calculations Rich Bickle, Erik Jones and Ross Kenseth get in on provisionals, whille David Stremme, Steve Wallace, and Mason Mingus have to race their way in through the B-Main. 816. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.09.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Shepherd had a hell of a 1990. Although he just had the one win, he was there every week. But when you look at the competition he faced that year, and the number of legends and drvers that would be champions in any other era, and the fact they only raced 29 times per year (with Dale winning 9 of those that year) and that was a really good season for him. That is why I weigh the accomplishments of drivers in that era so heavily. I know it sounds like little more than the Earnhardt homer in me, but winning was never more difficult. 817. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Howie Lettow 150 update: Rich Bickle, Mason Mingus, and Erik Jones got in on provisionals. Stremme, Ross Kenseth and Steve Wallace were given Promoter's Options. Erik Darnell, Garrett Evans and Jerick Johnson are among those needing to race in through the B-Main. 818. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.09.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow! Those ARCA Midwest cars are doing speeds similar to the NNS cars! 819. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brandon Hermiller (nephew of Tim Steele and driving a HS Die Ford) won the last chance qualifier race. Of the 'notable names', Darnell transferred into the main event; Evans and Johnson did not. 820. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Invert is 14 cars; front row is #9K Mark Kraus and #25S Jeff Storm 821. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2nd Annual Howie Lettow Memorial 150 Starting Lineup: 1. Mark Kraus, #9K Seubert Calf Ranches Chevrolet 2. Jeff Storm, #25S Great Lakes Components/Hribar Chevrolet 3. Johnny VanDoorn, #61 Port City Racecars Ford 4. Boris Jurkovic, #53 Reliable Recovery Services/Widow Wax Chevrolet 5. Jacob Goede, #8 RRS/K&K Material Handling Ford 6. Travis Sauter, #5S Hableman Bros. Cranberries/Cranberry Creek Cranberries Chevrolet 7. Chad Finley, #42F G-Oil/Autoparts2020 Ford 8. Becca Kasten, #12 Scion Dental Chevrolet 9. Griffin McGrath, #64M Mcgrath Powersports Chevrolet 10. Brett Moffitt, #29 Adrian Carriers Chevrolet 11. Matt Kocourek, #43 Ford 12. Chris Wimmer, #52W Preval Chevrolet 13. John Hunter Nemechek, #8HN R.G.E. Manufacturing Chevrolet 14. Kyle Busch, #51 Monster Energy Drink Toyota 15. Johnny Sauter, #5JS Calypso Lemonade/Menards Chevrolet 16. Matt Kenseth, #20 Dollar General Toyota 17. David Ragan, #77R David Ragan Ford/SkuttleTight Ford 18. Cardell Potter, #58P TLR Chevrolet 19. Kenny Wallace, #36W Jimmy John's Ford 20. Jeremy Lepak, #40 23 Hour Towing Dodge 21. Chris Weinkauf, #75W Cellcom Chevrolet 22. Joe Nemechek, #87N D.A.B. Constructors Chevrolet 23. Skylar Holzhausen, #78H Kimpf's Logging Ford 24. Trey Mitchell, #47 Guwraps.com Chevrolet 25. Bryan Ortiz, #4O Victor Ford Ford 26. Dan Fredrickson, #36 Timber Wolf/SCC/Cedar View Electric Dodge 27. Brandon Hermiller, #6H VISI Software/HS Die Ford 28. Eddie Hoffman, #8H Lisa Thomas Salon Ford 29. Matt Tifft, #89 Doc 360 Ford 30. Travis Dassow, #7D Ford 31. Erik Darnell, #7ED Chevrolet 32. Jeremy Miller, #5M RTH/RaceTeamGear.com Ford 33. Nathan Haseleu, #87TH RaceTeamGear.com Ford 34. Jonathan Eilen, #77 Eilen & Sons Trucking Dodge (note: Dodge body, Ford logos) 35. Andrew Morrissey, #39 Spring Green Health/B&B Racing Engines Chevrolet 36. Rich Bickle, #45B Vintage Grills Ford 37. Mason Mingus, #811 Diamond Equipment/811 Call Before You Dig Chevrolet 38. Erik Jones, #4J Penske Racing Shocks Toyota 39. James Swan, #97 Greater Milwaukee Auto Auction/Gear Drive Performance Chevrolet 40. Kyle Benjamin, #71B Hamner Racing Engines Ford 41. David Stremme, #35 Toyota 42. Ross Kenseth, #25K Blain's Farm & Fleet Toyota 43. Steve Wallace, #66 Jimmy John's Ford 822. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 07.09.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Its funny I don't want to bore everyone in the Johnson Gordon debate but Gordon will beat Johnson statistically in every category except for championships 823. 83andJoe posted: 07.09.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch wins the Howie Lettow 150. The race was shortened to 115 laps due to darkness. 824. The Long Shot posted: 07.10.2013 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Frank Kimmel is now entered in the #13 for ThorSport Racing in this weekend's Truck Series race at Iowa. While I am very happy that Kimmel is getting a shot in a Truck ride, I am also rather sad that Todd Bodine appears to be getting phased out of said ride. 825. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 1:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kubica, I wouldn't be so sure about that. 826. Paul posted: 07.10.2013 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks 83andJoe for posting updates on the short track race at Milwaukee earlier today. I haven't heard any news on Chris Wimmer and Erik Darnell (two of my favorite native Midwesterners) since this season began, so it's good to see the two former NASCAR drivers are still active in the world of motorsports. "how about Kurt Busch? The only thing he accomplished with Dale Earnhardt in the field was getting show the secondary pointer finger." Kurt Busch was in the same Cup race as Dale Earnhardt for the first eight races of his Cup career. Kurt had a best finish 13th at fall Charlotte 2000 and an average finish of 27.1 in those eight races, while Dale had a worst finish of 20th, had 3 top tens and two runner-up finishes, and an average finish of 11.3. The funny thing about it is that Kurt wasn't even in the race for Dale's final Cup victory at fall Talladega 2000, as Roush had Chad Little return to the #97 car one more time in that race, where he would finish 18th. 827. Paul posted: 07.10.2013 - 2:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Truex tweeted out earlier today that he and Richard Petty Motorsports are seeking sponsorship in order to run him in the Nationwide race at Bristol next month, presumably in a 2nd RPM car. Truex of course signed a driver development deal with RPM last month (along with Corey LaJoie), and it looks as if he'll be making his team debut by the end of next month. 828. 83andJoe posted: 07.10.2013 - 3:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) To wrap that up until the results get posted in the morning: top 5 was Kyle, Travis Sauter, Johnny Sauter, Jacob Goede and Chris Wimmer. Joe Nemechek 6th, Ragan 9th, John Hunter Nemechek 12th, Stremme 14th, Erik Jones 17th, Steve Wallace 19th, Ross Kenseth 24th, and Kenny Wallace 26th. Bickle and Matt Kenseth popped engines, Moffitt didn't make it five laps before the radiator gave out, and Darnell and Mingus got caught up in a vicious crash that saw James Swan nail the barrels at the end of the pit road wall. 829. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 3:19 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Uh oh, Baker produced a stat that makes Gordon look like less than a Golden God. That is the cardinal sin on this site. Soon JG24Fan will show up with some random stats for Jeff, like a list of "Most Wins In Races With Chad Little In The Field" that will show Jeff way ahead of others." "Jeff way ahead of others" stats: Seasons with the most wins: Jeff Gordon--6 (and a record 5 straight from 1995-1999) Richard Petty--6 Dale Earnhardt--2 Seasons with the most Dominated(led most)races: Jeff Gordon--9 (and a record 4 straight from 2001-2004) Richard Petty--7 Dale Earnhardt--5 Seasons with the most Poles: Jeff Gordon--6 David Pearson--6 Richard Petty--4 Dale Earnhardt--1 Seasons with the best Average finish: Dale Earnhardt--8 (the equivalent to Ty Cobb's Batting title record) Lee Petty--6 Jeff Gordon--5 Richard Petty--5 David Pearson--5 Jimmie Johnson--1 (Does this make anybody on here suspect of JJ's place in Cup history?) Road-Race wins: Jeff Gordon--9 (and a record 6 straight) Richard Petty+Dale Earnhardt+Jimmie Johnson--8 Crown Jewel wins: Jeff Gordon 20 (and a record 4 straight,and another record of back-back Triple Crown seasons in 1997-98,and a record 9 consecutive Crown Jewel winning seasons from 1994-2002. Big E,Bobby Allison and Jimmie Johnson have the second longest streak at 4 straight years each.) Bobby Allison 13 Jimmie Johnson 13 Dale Earnhardt 11 Richard Petty 11 Cale Yarborough 11 830. joey2448 posted: 07.10.2013 - 5:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^^^ JG24FanForever, I love you. ^^^ 831. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 6:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff way ahead of others" stats again. Driver+Owner stats (He is the majority owner of the #48 at 75% to Rick's 25%) Championships--9 (Hendrick only has one Championship without Gordon's name on it.) Total wins--151 (20 consecutive winning seasons from 1994-2013.) Total Dominated races--146 Total Poles--102 Crown Jewel wins--33 (16 consecutive winning seasons from 1994-2009.) Road-Race wins--10 Plate wins--17 Flat-track wins--29 (It helps that Gordon and Johnson are the two all-time winningest with 15 for Gordon and 14 for Johnson.) Wins by track: Martinsville--15 Dover--11 Charlotte--11 Darlington--10 Pocono--9 Daytona--9 Talladega--8 Atlanta--8 Indianapolis--8 California--8 Sonoma--6 Bristol--6 Phoenix--6 Loudan--6 Las Vegas--5 Richmond--5 Watkins Glen--4 Rockingham--4 Kansas--4 Texas--3 Michigan--2 Chicago--1 North Wilkesboro--1 Homestead--1 Top 10 winnigest seasons: 1. 16 in 2007 2. 13 in 1998 2. 13 in 2004 4. 10 in 1996 4. 10 in 1997 6. 8 in 2009 7. 8 in 2005 8. 7 in 1995 8. 7 in 1999 8. 7 in 2006 8. 7 in 2012 832. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 6:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) I get a good chuckle out of JG24FF's BS stats. 833. David posted: 07.10.2013 - 6:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I finally made it to a decent computer. :D Number of Times Setting cjs3872 on a Raging Mad Rant: 1. The Long Shot/NicoRosbergFan/David - 1 2. Everyone Else - 0 "Do I get credit for being a pioneer in bringing html to this site with my witty (if I do say so myself lol) strikethrough quips?" Yes, you do, much like The Long Shot gets credit for bringing idiotic, immature, and extremely old satire here. And like I get credit for the "#nonsatiricaljokesonRR" hashtag. The list goes on... "Kyle Busch wins the Howie Lettow 150. The race was shortened to 115 laps due to darkness." Another win that proves his legendary status he doesn't need. "18fan, they (the Wood Brothers) probably released Morgan Shepherd because of his age. He was 54 at the end of his last season there. (He was born two months before the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor.)" Wow. That makes him almost as old as Spen. *rimshot* #nonsatiricaljokesonRR 834. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 6:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I honestly don't can't Indy as a crown jewel because it's so new. Guys like Jeff and Jimmie get their 'crown jewel' wins artificially inflated because they've won at a track that's only been on the schedule 19 years (soon to be 20). For stats purposes, it's pointless because Charlotte was started in 1960, Talladega in 1970, Indy in 1994(?!), Daytona in 1959, and Darlington ceased to run after 2003 (it's not the Southern 500 unless it's run in that 105 degree redneck heat on Labor Day weekend, right DSFF?). 835. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 7:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I get a good chuckle out of JG24FF's BS stats." Good. 836. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 7:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I honestly don't can't Indy as a crown jewel because it's so new." It's 20 years old,and the first race held the largest crowd in Nascar history. I'll count 1994 only then. "Darlington ceased to run after 2003 (it's not the Southern 500 unless it's run in that 105 degree redneck heat on Labor Day weekend, right DSFF?)." Since 2007 was run during the day i'll count it. Crown Jewel wins by the NRF standard: Jeff Gordon 17 Bobby Allison 13 Dale Earnhardt 11 Richard Petty 11 Cale Yarborough 11 David Pearson 10 Darrell Waltrip 9 Jimmie Johnson 7 (this new # does make me feel a lot better.) NicoRosbergFan, I hope you're satisfied with the epically reduced Johnson total. 837. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 07.10.2013 - 9:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson won't come close to Gordons pole tally and I think will come up short on wins and is very unlikely to reach 300 top5s unless he has 3 or 4 big seasons, personally I see him geting 250-275.He can catch Gordon in top 10s and at his current rate would get an astonishing 450 after 20 years. He will probably tail off do. Johnson's career "low" of 20 top 10s in a season is one of his best records much more impressive than his chase championships as the 48 team has always produced a championship caliber season.If he could score 20 top10s for the next 4 or 5 seasons and get 17 straight that may well be the best record in Nascars modern era. Another would be if he can score 5 wins a year for 3 more seasons after this one.Which would give 5 wins a season 10 times in 11 years which would be incredible. These potential records are much more impressive than his chase championships. 838. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 9:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If he could score 20 top10s for the next 4 or 5 seasons and get 17 straight that may well be the best record in Nascars modern era." That is very impressive but here are a few Modern records that I find more impressive. Jeff Gordon's 17 consecutive Top 5 finishes in 1998 Dale Earnhardt's 22 consecutive Top 12 points finishes from 1979-2000 Jeff Gordon's 47 wins in 5 years from 1995-99 with a win% of .291 or 29.1 percent Dale Earnhardt's 16 DNF's in 17 races from 1982-83 Jeff Gordon's 21 consecutive finishes outside the Top 5 in 2005 Those last two aren't records but they contrast the greatness of JG and Big E quite fittingly. DSFF says that Gordon is paying for all his early career fortunes with all the awful luck he's faced over the last 6 seasons. When is Jimmie Johnson going to pay the piper? And how bad is it going to be for him when it finally catches up to him considering the vast inequity of the #48 team? Or is Johnson the true "chosen one"? 839. The Long Shot posted: 07.10.2013 - 10:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, you do, much like The Long Shot gets credit for bringing idiotic, immature, and extremely old satire here." I wouldn't talk. You were one of the biggest offenders, almost as big of an offender as me. Not to mention that I didn't even start it. Blame whoever posted as "Kool-Aid Man from SPEED-TV" on the All-Star Race page. I didn't post any satirical comments until the History 300 page (I did attempt to post a couple on the All-Star page under the names "Jimmie Johnson" and "Kasey Kahne", but those posts got deleted). If I get credit for anything, give me credit for starting the Gilliland Revolution, as well as credit for starting the C.G.R. system. (And I will post the C.G.R. ratings for this week at some point; I'm getting my wisdom teeth out today, so they might not get posted until tomorrow or Friday). 840. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 10:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JG24FF, take out the 1994 Indy and 2007 Darlington. Those get tossed as well. As for Johnson's top-10s, it's an epidemic. Consider just two things: (a) the higher number of races now than in the previous 25 years, and (b) the lack of top-to-bottom competition in recent years. The lesson: standards change. 841. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 11:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "JG24FF, take out the 1994 Indy and 2007 Darlington. Those get tossed as well." Nah,those races were magic,and they were both Crown Jewel worthy. I'm actually going to create my own "Crown Jewel" standard by keeping the original Big four and adding any win at Martinsville+Bristol Night+Sonoma. Sonoma is extremely difficult,probably the most difficult track to drive,and we have to have Crown Jewel short-track races too. Jeff Gordon 30 (6 Southern 500/3 Daytona 500/3 World 600/4 Spring Dega/7 Martinsville/5 Sonoma/1 Bristol Night win and the 1994 Brickyard 400) Darrell Waltrip 27 (7 Bristol Night wins) Richard Petty 26 (15 Martinsville wins) Dale Earnhardt 21 Cale Yarborough 18 Jimmie Johnson 16 (everything but a Bristol Night win on his resume) Bobby Allison 13 (No Martinsville!) Rusty Wallace 13 David Pearson 11 842. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 11:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Cale Yarborough 19 (5 Southern 500/4 Daytona 500/2 Spring Dega/6 Martinsville/2 Bristol Night) This is my JG24FanForever "Bullshit stats" Crown Jewel standard: Southern 500+ any day-time Mother's day event race Daytona 500 World 600 Spring Dega (This event holds the fastest qualifying record and the fastest 500 mile race of all-time as well.) Martinsville (DSFF's idea.) Bristol Night (Maybe this should be the only night race on the schedule) Sonoma (There has to be a Road-Course major and this track is as tough as it gets.) 843. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm going to cry. 844. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 12:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm going to cry." I'm sorry,guy:( 845. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 07.10.2013 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nico the point about the greater schedule is fair enough but only 3 or 4 drivers score 20 top10s in a season each year and rarely does anyone do it back to back apart from Johnson.Also tigther regulation make it harder more drivers now score 10 top10s than say 98 or 99 when the top 6 or 7 teams were miles ahead of everyone else. the 5 or 6 scored 20top10s and only 2 or 3 others reached double figures for top 10s. 846. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By my new standard this what Gordon's career Crown Jewel wins by season looks like: 1994--2 wins (World 600 and the only Brickyard 400 that counts) 1995--1 win (Southern 500) 1996--2 wins (Southern 500 and the fall Martinsville) 1997--4 wins (Southern 500,Daytona 500,World 600 and the Spring Martinsville) 1998--3 wins (Southern 500,World 600 and Sonoma) 1999--3 wins (Daytona 500,Sonoma and the fall Martinsville) 2000--2 wins (Spring Dega and Sonoma) 2002--2 wins (Southern 500 and the Bristol Night) 2003--2 wins (Martinsville sweep) 2004--2 win (Spring Dega and Sonoma) 2005--4 wins (Daytona 500,Spring Dega and a Martinsville sweep) 2006--1 win (Sonoma) 2007--2 wins (Day-time Mother's Day Darlington event and Spring Dega) And nothing of the sort since. 847. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Also tigther regulation make it harder more drivers now score 10 top10s than say 98 or 99 when the top 6 or 7 teams were miles ahead of everyone else. the 5 or 6 scored 20top10s and only 2 or 3 others reached double figures for top 10s. " I recently mentioned in a blog post, this is not true. Back 10 to 15 years ago, you could have a random race where all of sudden somebody like J.J. Yeley or Michael McDowell would have a great car and legitimately lead 100-200 laps (see Kevin Lepage, Chad Little, Kenny Wallace, and Steve Grissom for more info) or even WIN. That NEVER happens anymore. 848. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Back 10 to 15 years ago, you could have a random race where all of sudden somebody like J.J. Yeley or Michael McDowell would have a great car and legitimately lead 100-200 laps (see Kevin Lepage, Chad Little, Kenny Wallace, and Steve Grissom for more info) or even WIN. That NEVER happens anymore." Brain Power prevails! Hut Stricklin in the 1996 Southern 500 is probably the greatest example of what you're talking about. 849. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright, here are my favorite Earnhardt stats and nuggets, you know aside from the fact he accomplished all these with Rod "This NASCAR Thing Seems Like A Fun Hobby" Osterlund alternate name: Rod "Sponsorship Deal?" Osterlund), Bud Moore in '82 and '83 whose motors were held together by chewing gum, fishing line, scotch tape, and band aids, and Richard "If It Weren't for Dale I'd Be Back In Winston Salem Right Now Working For Douglas Battery Again (it still exists and I know people that work there)" Childress (alternate name: Richard "Horsepower?" Childress). -8 times having a realistic shot at the title in the Fall, 7 wins, 1 collapse, 1 "faded down the stretch but it didn't matter cause the competition faded worse" title (think Gordon '01), and 0 "saved by the bell titles (think Gordon '95 and '97). -22 straight seasons (all his full time seasons) of either being Top 10 in points or winning a race which means he was always a factor. -5 consecutive seasons winning the laps led title ('86-'90). -only driver in the modern era with a 4 race winning streak, a 3 race winning streak, a 2 race winning streak, and a 1 race winning streak all in the same season('87) he won for the cycle. -only driver with multiple wins on both Richmond configurations -from '85-'95 no driver could finish Top 3 in points more than two years in a row, except Dale ('86-'91, '93-'95). -from '79-'97 no driver clinched the championship before the final race, or only had to take the green flag in the final race, except Dale FOUR times ('86, '87, '91, 94). - in 22 seasons, finshed Top 3 in points HALF the time (11, 7 Winston Cups, 3 runner ups, 1 third place). -first and last champions were 15 seasons apart, first and last Top 2 points finishes were TWENTY ONE sesons apart -only driver to win titles in three different generations of cars (this might change soon) -only driver to win titles in cars with 2 different wheel bases (110" in '80, 105" for his final 6) -only driver with 6 titles in a 9 year span (JJ can tie that this year). -10 consecutive Daytona qualifying race wins, I know it is an exhibition race with the fields cut in half, but ten in a row? You will NEVER see anything CLOSE to that again. -only driver to win the title in his second season -qualifying was his GLARING weakness, yet he did manage one season pole title in '90 (the equivalent of Roger Federer getting that one French Open title). -FIRST MAN TO WIN THE BRICKYARD 400!!! 850. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) ""faded down the stretch but it didn't matter cause the competition faded worse" title (think Gordon '01)" 6 Finishes of 9th or better with a win at Kansas in the 9 races leading into the finale at New Hampshire that was stripped from him by the Lowes car? That's anything but a fade,friend. He was tied for the points lead with Dale Jarrett after the 18th race of the season and motored to a early lock-up after race 35, and then destroyed the field at New Hampshire only to be robbed by Robby and still won by 349 points. 851. David posted: 07.10.2013 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wouldn't talk. You were one of the biggest offenders, almost as big of an offender as me." Calm down, dude. I was clearly joking. I really don't know who started it, but I'm sure you were the first one to confess to doing it (props to you for that). Most Rants Against Michael Waltrip 1. DaleSrFanForever - 6,869,057,783,263 2. Everyone Else Combined - 19 852. Paul posted: 07.10.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty cool to see two Sauters finish in the top three at Milwaukee. I haven't been following much of ASA this season, but I've heard some good things about Travis Sauter. Hopefully he can work his way up to NASCAR in the next few years, preferrably by getting a better shot than his father, Tim Sauter. I heard that there were a lot of noise complaints from local homeowners during the race last night. If you don't like loud noises from race cars, don't move next to a race track. It's as simple as that. 853. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff's win at Kansas in October was his last Top 5 of the season. If there had been someone to have an "Earnhardt in '95" or "DJ in '97" performance, he would have 3 "saved by the bell" titles. Hell, even Earnhardt in '91 had 3 Top 5's down the stretch, and his '91 stretch run sucked (by championship standards of course). 854. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.10.2013 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "RCRandPenskeGuy, except for Mark Martin, Jack Roush has ALWAYS changed either the car number or the car font after a driver leaves the team." And Jeff Burton. Carl Edwards took over the #99, but the font is still the same as it had been in '04 when Burton was driving. Yet another win by the emotionless robot. If I had to pick a driver to win this year's championship, it'd definitely be him because he's been by far the best performer so far, with Kenseth just behind him (as far as strength and winning races go, they've been the best performers). Hoping anyone but Johnson wins it, though. 855. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here's my list of favorite Jeff Gordon "nuggets" that won't hold up in the court of DSFF because everything he's ever accomplished has been with a felon named Rick: -6 consecutive Road-Race wins that double as 6 consecutive that he dominated too. -4 consecutive Southern 500 wins to go with 4 consecutive spring Bristol wins from 1995-98(the equivalent to Jim Clark's 4 consecutive Belgian Grand Prix and 4 consecutive British Grand Prix wins that he also won at the same time from 1962-65). -72 poles is 50 more than Big E ever achieved,but again it was with "felon Rick". -87 wins across 24 different tracks of all types,and at 19 of those tracks he repeated victory. -9 times he dominated the most races in a season from 1995-96,98-99,2001-04,2007. -The most ever wins in a Chevy with 3 different types: Lumina,Monte Carlo and Impala. -The only driver to achieve 300 Top 5 finishes in the Modern era -17 Consecutive Top 5 finish streak is 11 longer than Big E ever managed. -3 consecutive 10 win seasons is more than Jimmie Johnson and Dale Earnhardt combined ever managed. -The only driver to ever win with the #24 -The driver with the largest crowd cheer in the history of Nascar after being dumped at the 1997 Bristol Night race. -The only driver to win a Road-Race with the flu as he did at Sonoma in 1999. -4 Championships that double as seasons with the most wins. -6 times he won the most races with no fewer than six wins in each 1995-99,2001. -The only driver under 5'8 and less than 155 pounds to win 4 Championships. -The only driver to win at least 4 races at Darlington,Daytona,Sonoma,Watkins Glen,Pocono,Indianapolis,Dover,Rockingham,Bristol,Martinsville,Charlotte,Atlanta. 856. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *-The only driver to win at least 4 races at Darlington,Daytona,Sonoma,Watkins Glen,Pocono,Indianapolis,Dover,Rockingham,Bristol,Martinsville,Charlotte,Atlanta and Talladega. 857. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 07.10.2013 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nico those were one of races which were rare and 1 guy showing up out of the pack once every 10 races would not affect your ability to rack up a huge top 10 total over a season.we will have to disagree. 858. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) You wanna bet? 2012 had 33 drivers with a top-10, and 2011 had 34, both in 36 races. 1996 had 38 drivers with a top-10 in 31 races, 1992 had 30 in 29(!!) races, 1986 had 33 in 29 races, and 1997 had 40 in 32 races. 859. JG24FanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "those were one of races which were rare and 1 guy showing up out of the pack once every 10 races would not affect your ability to rack up a huge top 10 total over a season." Gordon not only has big Top 10 totals in the 90's: 23 in 1995 24 in 1996 23 in 1997 28 in 1998 21 in 1999 He also has: 24 in 2001 25 in 2004 30 in 2007 (Modern record) 25 in 2009 (That makes 4 25+ Top 10 seasons with 3 of then coming after 2003) Jimmie Johnson has never reached the 25 Top 10 plateau. 860. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Here's my list of favorite Jeff Gordon "nuggets" that won't hold up in the court of DSFF because everything he's ever accomplished has been with a felon named Rick" It's not so much just the Felon named Rick, it is what other drivers have also accomplished with said Felon. Most notably Jimmie Johnson. Although undeniably talented, I think we can all agree that, of the prestigious club members who have 3 or more championships (which I include Herb Thomas in) Jimmie is by far the worst "driver", no matter how good his car is you never can trust him not to screw it up and, if in similar situations as drivers like Kenseth, either Busch brother, Carl, or Denny, would probably do about the same as them. Yet he has already passed Gordon historically, beating him in the most important category (championships) and will probably pass him in wins in what will most likely be a shorter career (got started in Cup much later in age). How does that happen? And as always, I don't wanna hear the chase excuse, unless we are willing to ignore The King's 1974 Winston Cup title (he had the best season, but the way that system was set up, he only won the title cause he won the Daytona 500, you guys bemoan these "10 race champions", thanks to the dumbass '74 system, Richard was a "1 race champion", which we can overlook cause he won 9 other races). And you know who I blame the most if Jeff was indeed somehow sabatoged by Chad somehow short circuiting an entire organization, and that is Jeff Gordon. My point is racing for a Felon named Rick allows for major statistical inflation as has been proven historically, just like history has proven driving for Rod Osterlund, Bud Moore in the '80s, and Richard Childress provides for statistical deflation. Again, I have much respect for Gordon as a competitor and wheel man. Is Jimmie anywhere close to Jeff as a wheel man? Of course not. Yet Jimmie is ahead of him historically. Most importantly, comparing numbers for Jeff pre-Jimmie and post-Jimmie, a good argument can be made that Jeff's insane success from '95-'01 is only because Jimmie wasn't there. Earnhardt, Petty, Pearson, Bobby, Herb, Cale, and Darrell don't have this asterisk. 861. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a Jeff fan, I'm complimented, DSFF, but I'd say Cale, Bobby, and Darrell were overlapped enough to have significant number reduction. 862. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "My point is racing for a Felon named Rick allows for major statistical inflation as has been proven historically, just like history has proven driving for Rod Osterlund, Bud Moore in the '80s, and Richard Childress provides for statistical deflation." Unless your name is Joe Weatherly. 863. The Long Shot posted: 07.10.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Calm down, dude. I was clearly joking. I really don't know who started it, but I'm sure you were the first one to confess to doing it (props to you for that)." I knew you were joking. And the only reason that I confessed to doing it was because I just couldn't hold it in any longer. Those comments that day had me laughing very hard. 864. David posted: 07.10.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan post too many garbage funny posts here for our own good. 865. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, if anything, Jimmie Johnson's numbers are INCREASED by the lack of top-tier competition he's faced over the last decade. Like I've said, in the era where Earnhardt dominated and later Gordon dominated, there were many great drivers. Besides the ones you mentioned, there was also Neil Bonnett, Geoff Bodine, Ernie Irvan, Tim Richmond, Bill Elliott, the Labonte brothers, Dale Jarrett, Mark Martin, Davey Allison, Rusty Wallace, etc. Today, there are more good drivers in competitive cars, but far fewer great drivers. When I unveiled my top 40 list earlier this year, there were probably fewer drivers from this era than there were from any other era, because the drivers of today are not, as a group, anywhere near the caliber of those from 1985-2003. There are many good-to very good drivers today, but the field is not top-heavy in any way, as far as elite drivers are concerned. That, and the fact that certain teams choose who they want challenging for wins and championships, are why I think it's actually far easier for Jimmie Johnson to dominate now than it was for any other driver since the Richard Petty era. Put any of the drivers I listed in top cars today, and they'll give Jimmie Johnson more than he wants. Wallace is in the Hall of Fame and Jarrett is going to be inducted next year, Martin, Terry Labonte, and Bill Elliott should go in as soon as they become eligible, and Bonnett, Bodine, Richmond, Davey Allison, and Irvan were Hall of Fame caliber drivers that either raced in the wrong era or had their careers shortened. Put those five (Bonnett, Bodine, Richmond, D. Allison, and Irvan) in today's era, and I guarantee Jimmie Johnson would not have five championships, possibly going on six this year, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that they wouldn't put up with some of the stuff Johnson has been doing. Those guys were harder competitors than you have now. I'll even take either of the Labonte brothers over just about any of the drivers today, except for Johnson, Gordon, Stewart, and perhaps Kenseth, and that includes Kevin Harvick, Carl Edwards, and the Busch brothers. 866. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Nobody nowadays is a hard competitor. They're all little whiners who want the world delivered to them on a platter. 867. AveryNH posted: 07.10.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So after all the Hoopla about the illegal roof flap spacers, NASCAR has decided not to levy a single fine or penalty. 868. David posted: 07.10.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Those comments that day had me laughing very hard." Same here. Dude, I have an impostor roaming around. #864 wasn't me. As DSFF once said, that is the sign you have made it. "unless we are willing to ignore The King's 1974 Winston Cup title" Fine, let's ignore it. That makes him a 200 (190 if you're not even counting the season's races in any way) race winner and six-time champion. That is still pretty amazing. I'm cool with that. Determining who is greater depends simply on how you define greatness. Speaking of which, here are the first five of my greatest drivers list: 1. Richard Petty T-2. David Pearson T-2. Dale Earnhardt 4. Bobby Allison 5. Lee Petty (no joke; he's a three-time champion in NASCAR's rough-and-tumble days, plus he leads quite a few major statistical and percentage categories) The rest I haven't figured out yet. 869. David posted: 07.10.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "NASCAR has decided not to levy a single fine or penalty." That's the correct decision. "I knew you were joking." Good. No hard feelings, then? 870. The Long Shot posted: 07.10.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Good. No hard feelings, then?" Of course not. I never had any in the first place. 871. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ha! David has a troll! Also, Young David, I like your inclusion of Lee Petty. What he did for a driver his age was outstanding. 872. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think we all agree The King was the best driver and most deserving champion for 1974. But facts are facts, and despite him winning 10 races, here are the reasons he won the championship that year: 1) He won the 1974 Daytona 500 2) He showed up for the January Riverside race and all the races after Daytona Luckily for NASCAR Richard did what Richard does, still competed his ass off and showed up for every race to win, winning 9 others, and basically bailed their asses out. Personally, with the exception of '79, I don't think Richard ever paid much attention to points, just showed up to every race, tried to win, usually did, and let the points fall where they may. 873. 13 posted: 07.10.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trevor Bayne is having pretty good runs in that 21 car this year with 7 starts Dayton 1, finished 27th after a crash Las Vegas, finished 23rd Texas, finished 18th Talladega, finished 43rd, Blown Engine Charlotte, finished 16th Michigan, finished 15th Daytona 2, finished 20th, was running 8th or so at white flag, but i heard his spotter said the caution was out after the first last lap crash?, but i dont really know that for sure 874. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF, Petty always had a simple theory about racing for championships. He admitted that he never even paid attention to points until after the Southern 500. After that, he would see who he would have to beat for the championship, and just focus on beating those drivers, and not really worry about anyone else, and often not even worry about winning races. If he had to race the guy he was battling for the championship with for 10th place in the race, then so be it. In the latter part of he season, he would worry mainly about the driver he had to beat for the title, and if that driver fell out of the race, then he'd try for the win (and the jugular, to boot). NicoRosbergFan, I think you're exaggerating it little bit by saying nobody's a hard competitor these days, but there are certainly not nearly as many among the upper tier of drivers as there were in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. But also, as I mentioned, the competition is somewhat controlled by the car owners deciding who they want to race for wins. Trust me, if Rick Hendrick really wanted Jeff Gordon up there, some of those guys up front would learn all about what hard racing is, and who the best out of the Hendrick stables is. But the fact is, he's gotten off to bad starts every year he's been with Alan Gustafson, and it was said recently that they're still trying to gain chemistry. After three years? I think it's pretty obvious there's little to no chemistry there. It was also said on last night's Race Hub (I'll be listing their little mock draft of drivers for the future later this week) that they're surprised at how much Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. has struggled. Really? And they're supposed to be the experts? I said late last year he would struggle, though he's actually surprised me at how good he's been at getting to the finish. Yet he's still not found the top ten in any of his Cup starts in a car that was a legitimate championship contender and won three times last year, including twice in the Chase. And yet Stenhouse can't even find the top ten where there's only 20-25 quality cars. But drivers that have finished in the top ten at least once this year include Michael Waltrip (twice in three starts), Regan Smith (twice in six starts), Brian Vickers (twice in seven starts), Scott Speed (in the Levine Racing car #95), Michael McDowell (in Phil Parsons' #98 car), J.J. Yeley, Danica Patrick, Casey Mears, David Ragan (a win, no less), and David Gilliland. None of those drivers, except for Waltrip and Vickers, who are sharing one, have a premium ride, and Stenhouse is a whopping 0-for-18 this year in what has been not only a premium ride, but a championship contender. Now I know Roush's team hasn't exactly set the world on fire, but if that isn't a case of underperforming, I don't know what is. And 13, that's what I thought it was regarding Bayne last Saturday night in the Firecracker 400, but from what I've read, what really happened was that Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. got him sideways, which was why he dropped so far back so quickly. And they're supposed to be quasi-teammates? Maybe Stenhouse, who still has never finished in the top ten in a Cup race, wasn't happy about the fact that Bayne was going to finish ahead of him in a part-time car yet again, so he decided to make sure he didn't, and I can assure you that I don't think we've heard the last of this. By the way, Bayne finished in the top ten twice last year, including on a downforce track at Las Vegas, in the part-time #21 car. I wonder now if Roush isn't regretting his decision to put Stenhouse in the #17, instead of Bayne and having Stenhouse serve the Cup apprenticeship that Bayne's been serving for three years now. I'm not sure Bayne would have been a threat to win a race in the #17 car, but I can almost guarantee that he would have finished in the top ten at least once, something Stenhouse has still been unable to do. 875. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I now call to order this week's meeting of the Women Hater's Club... err... Racing-Reference forums. 876. joey2448 posted: 07.10.2013 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Put those five (Bonnett, Bodine, Richmond, D. Allison, and Irvan) in today's era, and I guarantee Jimmie Johnson would not have five championships, possibly going on six this year, for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that they wouldn't put up with some of the stuff Johnson has been doing. Those guys were harder competitors than you have now." Cjs3872, I agree, but I want to make a point here. With the amount of pressure today's drivers are feeling, I think it almost forces them to "play nice", and doesn't allow them to drive rough and be off the cuff off-track. With the microscope todays drivers are under, the scrutinizing, criticizing and over-analyzing that goes on today with the media and fans, the social media aspect of it.....it's near impossible to get away with some of the things driver were able to do in the 70's, 80's and 90's. 877. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Danica has a top ten finish, something Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. doesn't have. Now I'm not a real big fan of Danica, or as I sometimes call her, "Dani-can't", but the plain truth is she has a top ten finish and Stenhouse, in a car that should be able to run near the front, has none. Not only that, but she actually was very competitive at one of the toughest tracks on the circuit, Martinsville, where she finished 12th, and would likely have been top ten finisher had the race been 10-15 laps longer, while Stenhouse looked completely lost, and both drivers were making their debuts there. We know Danica isn't much, but it's also time to ask whether Stenhouse is going to amount to very much himself as a Cup driver, because he's been terrible so far this year. 878. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.10.2013 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "At least Danica has a top ten finish, something Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. doesn't have. Now I'm not a real big fan of Danica, or as I sometimes call her, "Dani-can't", but the plain truth is she has a top ten finish and Stenhouse, in a car that should be able to run near the front, has none. Not only that, but she actually was very competitive at one of the toughest tracks on the circuit, Martinsville, where she finished 12th, and would likely have been top ten finisher had the race been 10-15 laps longer, while Stenhouse looked completely lost, and both drivers were making their debuts there. We know Danica isn't much, but it's also time to ask whether Stenhouse is going to amount to very much himself as a Cup driver, because he's been terrible so far this year." I'm really glad to see a somewhat objective analysis of Danica Patrick around here. I don't think she's really performing any worse than what anyone who knows what they're talking about would have expected. She is what she is, an average or below average driver who may or may not (probably not) develop into something more. Her best-case career trajectory is probably something like a Sam Hornish, and Danica shows more consistency but much less speed than Sam did in his second Cup season (he didn't run a full Nationwide season, so I'm using his second Cup for comparison here). But Sam is an immensely talented driver (keep in mind he is a three-time IndyCar champion and an Indy 500 winner), and I don't expect Danica to be nearly as good as Sam. Stenhouse, on the other hand, I have high hopes for. I'm hoping this season is an aberration for him, much like his first full-time Nationwide season was. But keeping things in perspective, he hasn't been all that bad. He's still within a race's worth of points of the Chase, as he has been all season. At the same point in Brad Keselowski's rookie season, Brad was 25th, also without a top 10, and look where he was a couple of years later. I think Stenhouse really could be a similar case. I think since several drivers had great rookie seasons over the past 15 years such as Stewart, Johnson, Newman, and Hamlin, we've been a bit spoiled and expect a lot out of rookies when that's not how things have been historically. 879. Baker posted: 07.10.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "Speaking of which, here are the first five of my greatest drivers list: 1. Richard Petty T-2. David Pearson T-2. Dale Earnhardt 4. Bobby Allison 5. Lee Petty (no joke; he's a three-time champion in NASCAR's rough-and-tumble days, plus he leads quite a few major statistical and percentage categories)" I firmly believe Herb Thomas would drive circles around Lee Petty. He himself should have been a 3 time Champion in the "rough-and-tumble" days and was a 3 time Southern 500 Winner which was THE race back then. 880. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.10.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm really glad to see a somewhat objective analysis of Danica Patrick around here. I don't think she's really performing any worse than what anyone who knows what they're talking about would have expected. She is what she is, an average or below average driver who may or may not (probably not) develop into something more. Her best-case career trajectory is probably something like a Sam Hornish, and Danica shows more consistency but much less speed than Sam did in his second Cup season (he didn't run a full Nationwide season, so I'm using his second Cup for comparison here). But Sam is an immensely talented driver (keep in mind he is a three-time IndyCar champion and an Indy 500 winner), and I don't expect Danica to be nearly as good as Sam." Don't forget that Sam came into the Cup with Penske at a time that that team was performing the very worst it had in all its years in Cup racing. 881. 83andJoe posted: 07.10.2013 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The trouble with Danica is that she really isn't doing too badly for a rookie driver. However, there's two factors: 1. Danicamania, hailing her as The One Who Will Save NASCAR From Its Wicked Redneck (= Sexist) Ways, and 2. the fact that the 1999-2009 "Superrookie" era is still in most peoples' head as a benchmark. Over the first 18 races of their rookie season, for instance, let's compare her average finish to the last five ROTYs before the mold was broken: Jeff Burton, 24.2 (0 poles, 2 top 10s) Ricky Craven, 24.6 (0 poles, 1 top 10) Johnny Benson Jr, 21.8 (1 pole, 3 top 10s) Mike Skinner, 25.7 (2 poles (both Daytona), 2 top 10s) Kenny Irwin Jr, 22.9 (0 poles, 3 top 10s) Danica Patrick, 25.0 (1 pole, 1 top 10) Skinner and Irwin had top-flight rides like Stewart-Haas, as well. The issue is simply we've gotten used to rookies contending for wins and top-15 or even top-10s in points, and the massively overhyped brand campaign that is Danicamania - even in a Stewart-Haas car, she's not /awful/, she's simply...a rookie, and is doing what rookie drivers do. Heck, one could (if one were feeling slighty trollish) point out she's.../equal with the guys/. 882. Baker posted: 07.10.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder who wins the most popular driver this year with it be Junior again or will it be Danica? 883. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.10.2013 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The difference, 83AndJoe, is that Skinner and Kenny are universally acknowledged as drivers that never made a decent transition to Cup, or Kenny would be if it weren't for us generally not disrespecting the deceased. They never had every excuse in the world made for them. Honestly, the media attention is what is wearing on us the most. 884. DB1995 posted: 07.10.2013 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey guys, thanks for finally having a civilized Danica talk, i seem to be her only supporter on here seems like. Just thought i would say that and that im also gonna be changing my username on here to DB1995, Thanks 885. 13 posted: 07.10.2013 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The post above was me 886. The Long Shot posted: 07.10.2013 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Now I'm not a real big fan of Danica, or as I sometimes call her, "Dani-can't", but the plain truth is she has a top ten finish and Stenhouse, in a car that should be able to run near the front, has none." Danica's lone top 10 finish came in the Daytona 500, and all that was was she taking advantage of her pole qualifying run, falling in line, and then just riding around for the majority of the race. In her defense, she didn't make too many mistakes (although she got caught on the outside and lost about 3 positions coming out of the last corner on the last lap), but that top 10 needs to come with an asterisk. "Not only that, but she actually was very competitive at one of the toughest tracks on the circuit, Martinsville, where she finished 12th, and would likely have been top ten finisher had the race been 10-15 laps longer, while Stenhouse looked completely lost, and both drivers were making their debuts there." I'll give her credit here. She did have a very nice comeback after being as low as the mid-20s throughout much of the event. "At the same point in Brad Keselowski's rookie season, Brad was 25th, also without a top 10, and look where he was a couple of years later." The main difference there is that Brad was in the #12, which was an absolute crap-box after Ryan Newman left, and Stenhouse is in a fully funded ride with Jack Roush; the very same ride that Matt Kenseth won a championship in 10 years ago. Also, Stenhouse had 2 career Nationwide titles to his name, while Brad had never finished better than 3rd prior to 2010 (although to be fair, under today's rules, he would have won the 2009 title, as Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards would almost assuredly have competed for Cup points). I'm not knocking Stenhouse, as I think he's a talented driver, but you have to realize when comparing him to Keselowski that Brad was in a much different and inferior situation than Stenhouse is currently. 887. murb posted: 07.10.2013 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Martinsville was by far the best Cup race I've seen Danica drive. I personally think her Daytona 500 top ten is a bit overrated just because there was pretty limited passing in that race all day. As Long Shot said, she basically took advantage of her good starting position in that one. Martinsville was a different story though. If she has more runs like that I'll start to gain a little more respect for her on track ability. "The main difference there is that Brad was in the #12, which was an absolute crap-box after Ryan Newman left" It was actually a total crap box even when Newman was still there. I personally think that Penske suffered huge setbacks when Rusty retired after 2005. They were terrible in 2006, rebounded a bit in 2007 (Kurt had a couple wins and Newman should have won the Fall Charlotte race), and then fell off again in 2008 (despite Newman's Daytona 500 win). I know Kurt won some races in 2009 and 2010 (even finishing 4th in points in 2009), but as a whole it seems like Penske didn't fully return to prominence until 2011. 888. The Long Shot posted: 07.10.2013 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are the C.G.R. ratings for this weekend's races. I updated the ratings system to make it a bit more universal (these ratings are now out of 100). Truck: 1. Matt Crafton: 86.086 2. Chase Elliott: 84.771 3. Johnny Sauter: 82.571 4. Ryan Blaney: 78.942 5. Jeb Burton: 76.371 6. Ty Dillon: 74.371 7. Erik Jones: 71.429 8. Joey Coulter: 68.942 9. Brendan Gaughan: 67.800 10. James Buescher: 67.229 11. Timothy Peters: 67.143 12. Miguel Paludo: 64.086 13. Ron Hornaday Jr.: 63.343 14. Ross Chastain: 61.429 15. Darrell Wallace Jr.: 55.629 (apparently taking the cjs route here, lol) 16. Steve Wallace: 52.000 17. Ryan Sieg: 50.771 18. Frank Kimmmel: 48.029 19. John Wes Townley: 46.571 20. German Quiroga: 46.571 21. Tim George Jr.: 44.943 22. Jimmy Weller: 44.457 23. Dakoda Armstrong: 43.629 24. Max Gresham: 41.143 25. Justin Jennings: 35.229 26. Chris Cockrum: 33.800 27. Jeff Agnew: 33.229 28. Bryan Silas: 32.857 29. Norm Benning: 28.771 30. Tyler Young: 28.571 31. Brennan Newberry: 24.371 32. Jennifer Jo Cobb: 20.657 33. Chris Jones: 7.343 34. Chris Lafferty: 6.857 Not sure when the other series' ratings will be posted; probably either later tonight or tomorrow morning. 889. 83andJoe posted: 07.10.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF: Exactly my point, yes. Danicamania trumpets her to the heavens as THE ONE TRUE SAVIOR OF NASCAR, when if they shut up and let her race (and she would shut up and race), she'd be seen a lot more favorably. As it is, anything other than WINS AND CHAMPIONSHIPS FOR THE ONE TRUE SAVIOR will be seen as failure by her cheering section (= the media), who will then turn on her with savage fury and ruin the chances of the female racers who deserve rides on talent (Johanna Long, Becca Kasten, etc.) for the next ten years. 890. cjs3872 posted: 07.10.2013 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) And I can tell you exactly what those setbacks were, murb. Penske Racing no longer had Rusty's knowledge of the cars to help the organization. Remember that Rusty was a contender for the championship with just a few races to go in the 2005 season, and Ryan won the Chase opener at Loudon in a great battle with Tony Stewart. But after Rusty retired, he took much of his knowledge about how to set up the cars with him, and the Penske team was lost for almost six full years. I think Roush is going through that exact same problem this year with the loss of Matt Kenseth. Kenseth is obviously valuable as a team leader, as those at Roush and now Gibbs can attest to. But as far as on-track success is concerned, he's even more valuable to a team because of his acute knowledge of how to set the cars up. Is it any real surprise that JGR is running so well with Kenseth now there and Roush isn't with him gone? Roush's teams actually seem lost at times this year, while Gibbs has the most dominant 1-2 punch in the sport (sorry, Jimmie and Kasey), and the one common link to all this is Matt Kenseth. Penske suffered that exact loss with the departure of Rusty, and didn't really get it back until the second half of the 2011 season, and of course, we all know what happened from there. The lesson to learn from this is that if you have a driver that also has a great knowledge of how to set a car up, you'd better keep him, because that will affect not only the team he's driving for, but the entire organization. I actually think the loss of Kenseth is affecting Roush across the board, and that includes his Nationwide effort. I think one of the big reasons why Trevor Bayne is struggling this year is the loss of Kenseth's knowledge of how to set cars up, something that trickles down through the entire organization. And I also think that Kyle Busch Motorsports, through association, is also benefiting from Kenseth being with JGR this year, as KBM is JGR's driver development arm. To me, Carl Edwards was more expendable than Matt Kenseth, because Edwards is just a driver, albeit a very good one, but one without much knowledge of the inner-workings of a car and how to set one up, while Kenseth may not have the raw talent Edwards has, but he's a much better driver, and a big part of the reason is his knowledge of the inner-workings of the car and how to set them up. And if there's one tangible difference between Alex Bowman and Kyle Larson right now, it's that Bowman seems to actually want to know the inner-workings of his cars, while Larson doesn't seem to care what's under the bodywork, and just drives it, which to me will give Bowman the edge over Larson over the long haul, just as Kenseth's knowledge of setting up cars gave him the long-term edge over Dale, Jr. Dale, Jr. was a more talented driver than Kenseth, but Kenseth knew more about the cars, and that gave him the edge over Dale, Jr. over the long haul, as has been proven over the last eight years. 891. The Long Shot posted: 07.10.2013 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nationwide: 1. Matt Kenseth: 86.410 2. Kyle Busch: 83.667 3. Joey Logano: 82.487 4. Kasey Kahne: 78.282 5. Justin Allgaier: 77.103 6. Brian Vickers: 76.923 7. Elliott Sadler: 76.077 8. Austin Dillon: 74.103 9. Sam Hornish Jr.: 72.641 10. Trevor Bayne: 69.744 11. Paul Menard: 69.282 12. Kyle Larson: 66.923 13. Regan Smith: 62.308 14. Brian Scott: 61.026 15. Reed Sorenson: 60.179 16. Nelson Piquet Jr.: 59.564 17. Michael Annett: 59.154 18. Alex Bowman: 58.462 19. Parker Kligerman: 58.128 20. Mike Bliss: 54.538 21. Billy Johnson: 46.154 22. Mike Wallace: 45.974 23. Jeremy Clements: 45.462 24. Travis Pastrana: 44.615 25. Joe Nemechek: 43.000 26. Jeffrey Earnhardt: 39.308 27. Landon Cassill: 37.179 28. Jamie Dick: 35.462 29. Eric McClure: 34.692 30. Stanton Barrett: 32.795 31. Ryan Preece: 32.231 32. Dexter Stacey: 31.359 33. Tony Raines: 30.333 34. Blake Koch: 29.744 35. Brett Butler: 27.923 36. Chad Hackenbracht: 27.744 37. Joey Gase: 23.667 38. J.J. Yeley: 23.256 39. Josh Wise: 23.077 40. Morgan Shepherd: 18.641 41. Jeff Green: 13.513 42. Carl Long: 10.436 892. David posted: 07.10.2013 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some drivers have rotten rookie seasons; Danica is just one of them. Until she gets another one or two years of experience, I will reserve judgment. I mainly take issue with how she got into the Cup Series (but she's certainly not the first one to make it to the top because of money). 893. The Long Shot posted: 07.10.2013 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cup: 1. Jimmie Johnson: 80.548 2. Clint Bowyer: 73.333 3. Kevin Harvick: 72.987 4. Carl Edwards: 72.439 5. Tony Stewart: 72.214 6. Jeff Gordon: 71.429 7. Denny Hamlin: 70.167 8. Dale Earnhardt Jr.: 69.119 9. Greg Biffle: 68.167 10. Kurt Busch: 67.452 11. Matt Kenseth: 66.595 12. Brad Keselowski: 66.500 13. Kyle Busch: 64.833 14. Ryan Newman: 64.833 15. Kasey Kahne: 64.357 16. Martin Truex Jr.: 64.048 17. Joey Logano: 63.810 18. Jeff Burton: 60.714 19. Ricky Stenhouse Jr.: 55.643 20. Brian Vickers: 55.071 21. Marcos Ambrose: 54.929 22. Paul Menard: 54.119 23. Juan Montoya: 53.810 24. Aric Almirola: 53.500 25. A.J. Allmendinger: 52.452 26. Jamie McMurray: 52.310 27. David Reutimann: 45.952 28. Bobby Labonte: 43.167 29. David Ragan: 41.500 30. Casey Mears: 39.119 31. Danica Patrick: 38.405 32. David Gilliland: 31.905 33. Travis Kvapil: 28.262 34. Ken Schrader: 27.690 35. Landon Cassill: 27.214 36. J.J. Yeley: 26.833 37. David Stremme: 24.524 38. Dave Blaney: 24.048 39. Josh Wise: 18.857 40. Joe Nemechek: 13.167 41. Mike Bliss: 12.786 42. Morgan Shepherd: 11.024 43. Michael McDowell: 9.214 894. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 12:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And David, Ricky Stenhouse's rookie season has, in my mind, been even worse than Danica's, given the teams they drive for. After all, Ricky took over a championship-contending car, and although it was unreasonable to expect him to contend for wins right off the bat, the fact that he doesn't even have one top ten finish makes his season even worse than Danica's to this point. I mentioned in post #874 the drivers in far less equipment that have at least finished in the top ten once, and here's Stenhouse in his rookie season in what should be contending equipment not even finishing in the top ten even once, and at times, even looks lost. That was to be expected out of Danica, because she's not that fast a driver, and that #10 team is effectively a new team for Stewart-Haas Racing, as it only ran 10 races last year, so it would be expected that they would struggle. And actually, Danica's run better in recent weeks, finishing in the top 15 in two of the last four races. But if anything, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. seems to be going in the wrong direction, actually regressing instead of progressing, so I would say, given the circumstances, Stenhouse is actually having an even worse season than Danica is at this point. 895. 12345Dude posted: 07.11.2013 - 2:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) '-only driver with 6 titles in a 9 year span (JJ can tie that this year).' If Jimmie wins the title this year he would of won 6 titles in the last 8 years. ' Jimmie Johnson has never reached the 25 Top 10 plateau.' You guys have to realize that for Jimmie most of the 'regular season' is just a testing session. Most years he's not going to get amazing, amazing amounts of top 10s, top 5s, poles, wins, or laps lead in the season. Because he doesn't do good enough in the regular season. Because it's just a big test session for him. Your comparing those stats against when the whole season was equally important and every race mattered. That's also why I think Jimmie will be winless in at least 2 current tracks when he retires. Because those tracks will never be in the chase. 'of the prestigious club members who have 3 or more championships (which I include Herb Thomas in) Jimmie is by far the worst "driver", no matter how good his car is you never can trust him not to screw it up and, if in similar situations as drivers like Kenseth, either Busch brother, Carl, or Denny, would probably do about the same as them.' Really DSFF? Matt Kenseth admitted two months ago that Jimmie Johnson was the greatest driver in the history of NASCAR. Not only that Jimmie was a better driver than him, but the greatest of all time. If Matt doesn't think he could have the same success as Jimmie in the #48, do you think he really could? I think he knows a little more about the situation that you and me. I don't want to sound like I'm in love with Jimmie Johnson but it upsets me that he doesn't get the credit he deserves as a driver. It's always cheating, stats that are hurt by him only caring about the chase, without the chase he would be have 2 titles, it's all equipment, less competition, Chad is the reason he is so good etc. etc. etc. I just wish he would get more respect as a driver, instead of all these excuses. 896. 12345Dude posted: 07.11.2013 - 2:58 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) (without stupid question marks) ------only driver with 6 titles in a 9 year span (JJ can tie that this year)--- If Jimmie wins the title this year he would of won 6 titles in the last 8 years. -------Jimmie Johnson has never reached the 25 Top 10 plateau.---------- You guys have to realize that for Jimmie most of the 'regular season' is just a testing session. Most years he's not going to get tons of top 10s, top 5s, poles, wins, or laps lead in the season. Because he doesn't do good enough in the regular season. Because it's just a big test session for him. You comparing those stats against when the whole season was equally important and every race mattered. That's also why I think Jimmie will be winless in at least 2 current tracks when he retires. Because those tracks will never be in the chase. -------of the prestigious club members who have 3 or more championships (which I include Herb Thomas in) Jimmie is by far the worst "driver", no matter how good his car is you never can trust him not to screw it up and, if in similar situations as drivers like Kenseth, either Busch brother, Carl, or Denny, would probably do about the same as them.------------ Really DSFF? Matt Kenseth admitted two months ago that Jimmie Johnson was the greatest driver in the history of NASCAR. Not only that Jimmie was a better driver than him, but the greatest of all time. If Matt doesn't think he could have the same success as Jimmie in the #48, do you think he really could? I think he knows a little more about the situation that you are me. 897. 12345Dude posted: 07.11.2013 - 2:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ehhh...ignore the question marks 898. Paul posted: 07.11.2013 - 3:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To me, Carl Edwards was more expendable than Matt Kenseth, because Edwards is just a driver, albeit a very good one, but one without much knowledge of the inner-workings of a car and how to set one up" Jimmy Fennig reportedly wasn't too excited to be working with Carl this season because he didn't think Carl took racing seriously, and that he was just doing it in order to become a celebrity. To Carl's credit, he has been more of a team player this season, as he has been at the race shop more often this season than any of his other seasons in NASCAR, and it could be because he wants to prove to Fennig (and all the other critics out there) that he can be a team player and he does take NASCAR seriously. As a result, Carl has been near the top of the points all season long (excluding his 33rd place finish in the Daytona 500) and returned to victory lane after a two-year absence. He may not know as much about the cars as Matt Kenseth (and I would agree that Kenseth was more valuable to Roush Fenway Racing than Carl), but I do think that Carl is trying to become a better driver and team member this season than he had been in years past, and so far so good. 899. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2013 - 4:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I admit it. I am David's troll. 900. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.11.2013 - 6:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like Kenseth, but what is he gonna say? "We've been losing year after year to a guy who couldn't hold The Intimidator's, or The King's, or the Fox's steering wheel"? And Matinsville was by far The Baroness' best run. Being there live, I was shocked. She actually looked like she belonged. But honestly, that is the only one so far. 901. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2013 - 6:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What Kenseth says isn't worth much considering the lack of great drivers he's raced against. All the great guys who started in the 80s were on the back door of their careers. 902. Scott B posted: 07.11.2013 - 10:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #890 (CJS): "And if there's one tangible difference between Alex Bowman and Kyle Larson right now, it's that Bowman seems to actually want to know the inner-workings of his cars, while Larson doesn't seem to care what's under the bodywork, and just drives it, which to me will give Bowman the edge over Larson over the long haul, just as Kenseth's knowledge of setting up cars gave him the long-term edge over Dale, Jr. Dale, Jr. was a more talented driver than Kenseth, but Kenseth knew more about the cars, and that gave him the edge over Dale, Jr. over the long haul, as has been proven over the last eight years." This is part the reason why my long term expectations for Danica Patrick are low. She wants to get in the car and drive, then be off to her next photo session. I would point to Ryan Blaney as a young gun who can not only wheel a car, but because of his upbringing, will know the inner workings and become more and more of an asset to his team over the years as he accumulates experience. Stenhouse on the other hand, to me, is one of those guys who will just try to drive the wheels off the car whether the set-up is good or awful, which is why his rookie year is not going to be outstanding. I don't think he's had a terrible season, though, the no top-10's is an anomaly, he's been in the 11th-20th window often. If he finishes the year in the high teens in points, he'll have met my expectations. The thing that has surprised me is that he doesn't have more finishes of 35th-43rd do to his aggressive style. That may be the upside of the Gen 6 car, they are able to take a beating and be patched up well enough to let you finish the race, sometimes with a car that's still pretty competitive. 903. Scott B posted: 07.11.2013 - 10:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ernie Irvan's first full Cups season, by way of Stenhouse comparison: Average finish 23.5, no poles, no wins, no top-10's. Team strength admittedly not as good as what Ricky has, though. I suppose by those rookie numbers Danica's fans could also argue she's as good as a healthy Swervin' Irvan, though if I was a team owner, I know which driver I'd want working for me. 904. Anthony posted: 07.11.2013 - 10:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) If Jeff Gordon misses the chase as Jimmie is all by himself in the lead I'm not watching the final 10 races of the season because I won't even look not even one bit. I'll just keep watching the 2011 Atlanta race where we piss Jimmie off & we had a better car than him that was D number 1 moment of all. 905. Anthony posted: 07.11.2013 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) And of course that 2011 Atlanta race we erase our heartbreak of all the bad things Jimmie did to us. 906. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2013 - 11:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Real... tasteful... Anthony...? Stenhouse is literally laying the biggest egg for a Roush car since Chad Little... even Kevin Lepage had better finishes! 907. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.11.2013 - 12:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Don't forget that Sam came into the Cup with Penske at a time that that team was performing the very worst it had in all its years in Cup racing." That's true, and the same could probably be said for Stewart-Haas (though it's a lot younger - I'm obviously not even going to include the Haas Racing years because it was a completely different team), and both had 3rd teams created for them. I think it's a pretty similar situation. "The main difference there is that Brad was in the #12, which was an absolute crap-box after Ryan Newman left, and Stenhouse is in a fully funded ride with Jack Roush; the very same ride that Matt Kenseth won a championship in 10 years ago. Also, Stenhouse had 2 career Nationwide titles to his name, while Brad had never finished better than 3rd prior to 2010 (although to be fair, under today's rules, he would have won the 2009 title, as Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards would almost assuredly have competed for Cup points). I'm not knocking Stenhouse, as I think he's a talented driver, but you have to realize when comparing him to Keselowski that Brad was in a much different and inferior situation than Stenhouse is currently." It's true that Penske was down, but also Roush had a pretty mediocre season by their standards last year. They've improved a bit this season, but it seems obvious they're not the juggernaut they once were. Roush was once co-#1 with Hendrick, and now they're #3 at best. As for Stenhouse having Nationwide titles while Keselowski does not, that's all because of the points system change. Keselowski finished 3rd twice, losing both times to Cup drivers driving for Cup teams, so he actually would have had two championships under the current system. I think their Nationwide resumes are very similar overall. Keselowski didn't really start to succeed in Cup until he was paired with Paul Wolfe and they developed chemistry over a few months. Perhaps what Stenhouse needs is for Roush to move Mike Kelley up to Cup with Stenhouse as they were a great pairing in Nationwide. "I don't want to sound like I'm in love with Jimmie Johnson but it upsets me that he doesn't get the credit he deserves as a driver. It's always cheating, stats that are hurt by him only caring about the chase, without the chase he would be have 2 titles, it's all equipment, less competition, Chad is the reason he is so good etc. etc. etc. I just wish he would get more respect as a driver, instead of all these excuses." Agreed 100%. I can understand hating the Chase, but trying to discredit his success because of it doesn't make much sense because everyone knows how the points system works going into the season. It's not like it's some dark sinister secret that only the #48 team knows. "I'll just keep watching the 2011 Atlanta race where we piss Jimmie off & we had a better car than him that was D number 1 moment of all." You keep saying "we," so are you like an actual member of Gordon's crew or something? "Stenhouse is literally laying the biggest egg for a Roush car since Chad Little... even Kevin Lepage had better finishes!" Heck, even Chad Little had a top 15 points finish with several top 10s and he came real close to winning a race! I know that you said "since," but still, even thinking Chad Little might have been better than Stenhouse is now seems like blasphemy. 908. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 12:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly NicoRosbergFan. At this point, Stenhouse is having a worse season than Danica because, unlike Danica, he's actually taken over a car that can run up front and has done virtually nothing with it. And even worse, he may be starting to take it out on other competitors, as he did with Trevor Bayne on the last lap of the Firecracker 400. He couldn't take that Bayne was going to finish ahead of him in the #21 car again, and basically hit him in the left rear, dropping him from a top ten, and maybe even a top five, all the way back to where he was in that crash at the finish and finished 20th. And by the way, what I said about Kenseth and Dale, Jr., as well as Alex Bowman and Kyle Larson is also applicable to Bayne and Stenhouse. Stenhouse has more raw talent than Bayne does, but Bayne's a better racer because he knows much more about the car than Stenhouse does, not to mention what he's learned from being around the Wood Brothers. Meanwhile, I never expected much out of Danica, not just because she's probably the slowest driver in the Cup circuit (Regan Smith's proved that), though she has finished in the top 15 in two of the last four races, but also that her team only ran 10 races last year, so it's effectively a new team, so it would have been hard to expect that much from that team, no matter who the driver is because it's a new team. But to take a consistent front running car, as the #17 is, and to not have any top ten finishes at all in it in the first half of the season, is quite pathetic. And he's rarely even run in the top ten, except for that one run at Kansas, where he led. He wasn't even in the picture at Michigan, where Greg Biffle handily won the race. That's why I said that I wonder if Roush isn't regretting his decision to put Stenhouse in that car, instead of Bayne, or someone else for that matter, and let Stenhouse serve the apprenticeship that Bayne has served for three years, because he definitely needs to learn the Cup cars and how to race in the Cup series, because what he's done in the #17 car is, quite honestly, an embarrassment. Now he has time to turn it around, but his has been an embarrassing season thus far. And you mention Chad Little. Even he had some good races, including a runner-up at Texas the year Mark Martin won there, and was a constant threat at Daytona in the late 90s. In fact, he was Roush's major threat at the plate tracks at that time. But I do agree that neither Chad Little or Kevin Lepage were of the quality that the Roush cars deserved. Back then, you had more quality cars than quality drivers. Now you have more quality drivers than there are quality cars. And later tonight, or more likely tomorrow, I will post the results of the fantasy draft that Race Hub is doing this week, though I'm disappointed at the results so far. But at least they mentioned the same thing about Darrell Wallace, Jr. that I mentioned a couple of weeks back, about how crash-prone he is. And like I said, if he can harness that ability, he may be a future superstar, but if he can't, he won't last long. I may do that in a blog post, since that's likely to last longer. 909. The Long Shot posted: 07.11.2013 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "At this point, Stenhouse is having a worse season than Danica because, unlike Danica, he's actually taken over a car that can run up front and has done virtually nothing with it." Even if Danica's ride is technically "new", she still is driving a Hendrick-powered car, which makes her results all the more inexcusable in my mind. As for Stenhouse, from what I've seen, it looks as though Jack Roush has put most of his backing behind the #16 team this year, as they are having one of their best seasons ever, and with Edwards still performing well and with Kenseth gone, the clear loser in this would be the #17. You were saying the same thing about Denny Hamlin and JGR just a week or two ago, if I'm not mistaken. "But at least they mentioned the same thing about Darrell Wallace, Jr. that I mentioned a couple of weeks back, about how crash-prone he is. And like I said, if he can harness that ability, he may be a future superstar, but if he can't, he won't last long." I know we just had this discussion a few weeks ago, cjs, but you'll need to explain your logic as to how 3 wrecks in the span of 10 races (one of those being a payback attempt by Ron Hornaday at Rockingham) automatically makes Wallace a crash-prone driver. He would have won at Dover had it not been for his truck fading late in the race (while owner Kyle Busch's truck, funnily enough, continued to improve). 910. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, I was just mentioning how those on NASCAR Race Hub were bringing up the very points I had previously made about Darrell Wallace, Jr. when they were doing their mock, or fantasy draft of future stars on last night's program. That's the only reason I even brought that back up. 911. The Long Shot posted: 07.11.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, but I was asking how exactly 3 career wrecks make Wallace a crash-prone driver. I don't think you ever fully explained that to us. 912. The Long Shot posted: 07.11.2013 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And to clarify, I'm not trying to bring the subject back up for argument's sake: I'm genuinely curious as to how 3 career wrecks make someone a crash-prone driver. 913. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2013 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't forget, cjs, Roush also went from 2 cars to 5 in a very short span. I think Roush struggled as a result, more than the lack of quality drivers. There were plenty of high quality drivers, but they were in low quality cars (Bill Elliott, Ricky Rudd, Sterling Marlin, Morgan Shepherd), and there were plenty of low quality drivers in high quality cars (Wally Dallenbach, Chad Little, Michael Waltrip) 914. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.11.2013 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Team strength admittedly not as good as what Ricky has, though." That's putting it mildly! Ernie doesn't get nearly enough credit for what he did with some less than stellar equipment. The #2 DK Ulrich Kroger car was the late 80's equivalent of one of the Burger King cars nowadays. Yet look at his performances in that car from '87-'89. Since my Dad was a manager for Kroger at the time, some of my earliest memories are of that car. Anyone else remember his breakout performance in the Spring '89 Bristol race when he led so many laps before blowing his right front? How about running Top 5 all day in the Fall Martinsville race (aka the Hurricane Hugo race). And that #4 Kodak car was far from elite. Although definitely a step up from the #2 car, it was a second tier car of its day, in the same category as the #30 Pennzoil car, the #26 Quaker State car, the #7 Zerex car, the #1 Skoal car, etc. But Ernie made it elite. He took advantage of their undeniable strength, restrictor plate racing (winning each of the 4 plate plate races once apiece) and carried it to wins at tough tracks Bristol, Watkins Glen, and Sears Point, as well as near wins at tracks like Atlanta and Darlington in the 1990 Southern 500. And yes, along the way, he caused wrecks. Lots of wrecks. Lots of big wrecks. Lots of horrifying wrecks. He had to push those cars hard to get them to run up front, and it is quite the understatement to say he pushed them too hard quite often. But damn he was fun to watch. And as a crew member, who would you rather have in your car? Yes Ernie would cause more work fixing wrecked cars, but don't you think you would enjoy work more if you knew you were putting in long hard hours building cars that somebody was gonna drive the piss out of? As opposed to somebody who will just ride around? The truth is that is the best that team EVER looked was during Ernie's time. I know they had a better statistical season with Sterling in '95, but that was the year the Monte Carlo's were so dominant it was ridiculous (as evidenced by the many Top 10 runs by Steve Grissom in the moribund #29 car). Sterling was a distant 2nd to Jeff in points for a long time until Dale's late season charge left him in his dust, and damn near caught Gordon from over 300 points back before Jeff was saved by the bell, almost allowing Dale to get 3 of his 4 goals for '95, get his long awaited breakthrough in the Daytona 500 (didn't happen), finally turn one of those mountain of road course Top 5s he had into a win (happened), become the first man to win the Brickyard 400 (happened), and win his record breaking 8th championship (needed one more race). Consider the plight of today's #6 Nationwide team. Although he was a tremendous pain in the ass, both from a personality standpoint and from wrecking cars, don't you guys think they miss having Stenhouse in that car? Don't you think they would rather build cars for somebody who will push it to the limit, instead of a conservative driver who would rather end the race with every fender intact (with the stunning exception of his Iowa win where he roughed up Austin, you know, that black #3 car from those BSPN commercials where he proudly tells us he is going to "add to the legacy" of Dale Earnhardt, the biggest baddest bully in NASCAR history)? You know what I am most disappointed in Stenhouse for this season? He has been too damn conservative. We were all expecting a "Gordon in '93" rookie season where he runs up front a lot, dents fenders, wrecks a lot, etc. Instead we are getting a "Mark Martin in '03" season. It's time for him to get aggressive. 915. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2013 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was so sad the day Ernie retired. I was one year old when the first wreck had happened, but it was hard to hear my mother talking to my grandfather about Ernie's retirement. He's how I remember Texaco/Havoline. 916. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Then if you didn't watch last night's edition of Race Hub, NicoRosbergFan, you should watch tonight's, because they're doing another edition of "The Empty Cup", this time recalling Davey Allison's 1992 season, and all the trials and tribulations he had to endure during the season, including the injuries he suffered at Charlotte and Pocono that impacted his performance during much of the second half of the season that year. Part 2 of that is on tonight's episode, and that includes the tragic death of his brother Clifford at Michigan, and ultimately his losing the championship at Atlanta in the season finale. Also on tonight's Race Hub, they're doing the final part of their mock draft of drivers to watch for the next 15 years. And DSFF, there's one more significant factor to consider in the plight of the #6 Nationwide team this year, and I brought that up in an earlier post, and that is the loss of Matt Kenseth. Their cars are not that good this year, and a big part of the reason why is the loss of the knowledge that Kenseth brought that entire organization from a car setup point of view, and that includes the Nationwide Series. Not only are Roush's Cup teams feeling the effects of the loss of Kenseth, so are the Nationwide teams, and Roush's Nationwide cars just aren't that good this year because they don't have the knowledge they had in the past, and that goes right back to the loss of Kenseth. But I also think that Stenhouse's problems in the Cup Series may go back to that age-old thing about drivers that do well in the Nationwide Series not being that good in the Cup Series, because the cars and the length of races just don't go well together. Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson, and Tony Stewart never did that well in the Nationwide Series, and they're all among the best in the history of the Cup Series, yet drivers like Steve Grissom, David and Jeff Green, Randy LaJoie, Brian Vickers, and Martin Truex, Jr. never did, or have not done well at all in the Cup Series, yet each of them won the championship in the Nationwide Series at least once, and LaJoie and Truex won it twice. If he continues to flounder, you wonder if Stenhouse may be another one of those drivers who's driving style and temperament just isn't suited to the longer Cup races where you have to pace yourself, but rather is suited to the shorter Nationwide races, where you just drive the car practically into the ground. 917. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.11.2013 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Then if you didn't watch last night's edition of Race Hub, NicoRosbergFan, you should watch tonight's, because they're doing another edition of "The Empty Cup", this time recalling Davey Allison's 1992 season, and all the trials and tribulations he had to endure during the season, including the injuries he suffered at Charlotte and Pocono that impacted his performance during much of the second half of the season that year. Part 2 of that is on tonight's episode, and that includes the tragic death of his brother Clifford at Michigan, and ultimately his losing the championship at Atlanta in the season finale." I saw that last night too. It was very sad when they talked about Davey's win in the Winston that he was never able to celebrate due to having to go to the hospital. I've seen photos in books of the team in victory lane holding Davey's winning check and the battered race car in the background. It looks like one of the most unusual victory lane celebrations I've ever seen. But that really summed up their '92 season. Larry McReynolds said on that piece last night that they had gotten into a trend throughout that year where they would win one week and have problems like a crash or mechanical failure the next. That is what ultimately cost them the title that year, because back then you needed to be consistent nearly every week. Had they not run into as many misfortunes they had that year, they would have won the title. 918. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.11.2013 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And speaking of Davey, the last ever race Davey competed in took place on this day, 20 years ago, in the inaugural New Hampshire Cup race, won by Rusty Wallace. 919. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.11.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, Stenhouse had 2 career Nationwide titles to his name, while Brad had never finished better than 3rd prior to 2010 (although to be fair, under today's rules, he would have won the 2009 title, as Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards would almost assuredly have competed for Cup points)." Brad would have won the Nationwide title in 2008 as well, seeing as the Top 2 finishers in points were Clint Bowyer and Carl Edwards, who would have ran for Cup points. But he would have been ineligible in 2010 had today's rules been in place that year. "I wonder who wins the most popular driver this year with it be Junior again or will it be Danica?" I wouldn't mind seeing Jeff Gordon win that award at least once before he retires. As long as Dale Jr and Danica are racing, that probably won't happen though. 920. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.11.2013 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tomorrow will mark 20 years since Davey's helicpoter wreck, and the 13th will be twenty years since we lost him. I know to many people that Texaco/Havoline car makes them think of Ernie first. He did an outstanding job in that car, winning races, finally in '94 finding that mix between being aggressive at the right times and riding when need be. He also came back from a horrible brain injury, the kind that ends most driver's chances of doing anything worth while in a race car again (Park, Nadeau). I love Ernie, loved watching him race, and cannot agree enough that he is one of the 50 best drivers ever in any NASCAR division. But he'll always be synonymous with the #4 Kodak car first and foremost to me. That is because the #28 Texaco/Havoline car will always be Davey's. I have him in my Top 20 all time drivers even with his short career. 19 wins on every type of track in 6 and 1/2 seasons during the most difficult era of NASCAR to win in says the world to me. I don't even have to play the "what if?" game with him to show how legendary his performances were. But if we are playing the game, Davey's future as a Top 10 driver historically is undeniable. Consider how good those Yates cars were for the rest of the 90's, the number of wins they had with Dale Jarret (good, but no Davey Allison) and a post injury Ernie. Remember, for Davey's first few years, although those cars were fast, they were very inconsistent as the team, originally owned by Ranier, had major financial issues leading to Robert Yates having to go way into debt to buy the team. Robert had been around for 20 years at that point and seen everything, why would he do that? Cause he KNEW the once in a lifetime opportunity he had with Davey. Also, Davey was just entering his prime as a driver at age 32. And considering he had already finished two seasons 3rd in points with 5 wins in each of those seasons ('91, '92), and seeing how much Yates improved, winning the championship in '99, and scaring it in '94 (Ernie's injury prevented an epic title duel between my two favorite drivers), '96 (with a start up 2nd team), '97 (Jeff was saved by the bell again), and '01 (horrific late season fade by DJ and Rudd), what does that say about Davey's projected success? And he had a great personality, poked fun at himself, always thanked his crew, stayed loyal to the #28 even in its shakier days, and was loved by the fans, embracing his ties to the legendary Alabama Gang while adding his part to its legacy (basically what Austin is doing with the #3 right now, only the exact opposite). Want proof Davey was a cool dude? Darrell hated him. That is the ultimate stamp of having a great personality. 921. murb posted: 07.11.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One of the things about Stenhouse that I don't think is being stressed enough is the fact that he is working with a rookie crew chief. Had Roush kept Jimmy Fenning with the 17 car and paired him up with Stenhouse, I believe we'd be hearing a lot more from Stenhouse this year. It is pretty odd how Stenhouse has completely been invisible this year. He's done a much better job than I thought he would of staying out of trouble and finishing races, but at the same time there have been several instances this year of me completely forgetting that he's even in the field while watching a Cup race (until the windbags of course remind me that he's Mr. Danica). I definitely think a smart move by Roush at this point would be to pair him up with a veteran crew chief. Maybe not Jimmy Fenning since Fenning is having success with Edwards, but surely there's got to be somebody with ties to Roush that could come in and mentor Stenhouse a little bit from a crew chief/team leader standpoint (Robbie Reiser?). 922. murb posted: 07.11.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish I could have seen Davey race live. He died just a little over a year before I was born. Thanks to YouTube I've been able to go back and watch some of his great wins and great moments, but I still wish I could have seen him race in person. He seemed like he was able to balance out racing hard on the track and being tough as nails along with being a totally nice guy off the track, a skill that about 90% of the current drivers can't duplicate whatsoever. 923. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually DSFF, I think Sterling Marlin may be as synonymous with the Kodak #4 car as Ernie Irvan is, if not more so. Remember that he's still the last driver to win consecutive Daytona 500s, and in 1995, scored that team's greatest points finish of third, and it was Marlin that Gordon took the point lead from at Loudon when he took it for good that year. And murb, I said last year that Roush should have kept Fennig as the crew chief of the #17 car, because Stenhouse needed someone to mentor him, and he still does. In fact, I think if Roush does revive the #6 car for Trevor Bayne in the next year or two, I could see Fennig becoming his crew chief more than I can Stenhouse's if something happens between him and Carl Edwards. Remember that Fennig has a history with that #6, as he was the crew chief for Mark Martin for Mark's greatest seasons at Roush. And also, I think Roush sent a pretty strong message last year when he decided not to run the #6 with Stenhouse this year, even though he ran it with Stenhouse in the Nationwide Series and the limited Cup races Stenhouse ran last year. The fact that he chose not to run the #6 for Stenhouse tells me that he may be reserving it for Bayne if he's able to bring back a fourth team in the next year or two. And remember this. Much like the #2 is the flagship number for Penske Racing, the #5 is the flagship number for Hendrick Motorsports and the #18 is the flagship number for Joe Gibbs Racing, the #6 is the flagship number for Roush, and Roush deciding not to use it for Stenhouse was, at the time of the decision, and still is, very telling as to who he thinks may be the true heir to Mark Martin as the driver of the #6 car. 924. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.11.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sterling, to me, is synonymous with the Silver Bullet Coors Light car. Perfect marraige of sponsor, paint scheme and driver cause they were all so cool. Man, 2002, I was wanting him to win that Winston Cup so bad. If he had, what a year for sentimental favorites in the important stuff! Ward won the Daytona 500, Mark won the 600, Bill won Indy, and the Southern 500..... well, Jeff was anything but a sentimental fave in '02. Although his year hadn't been great, that was his second straight win and suddenl he wasn't all that distant in the points. I'll never forget them showing the points after that race and my Dad saying "You watch, Gordon's gonna fool around and win this thing" followed by my heart dropping. But then the Fall happened. Oddly enough, Jeff's next Labor Day win, 9 years later, he was the sentimental fave, especially since the race came down to him and Johnson (in an epic slip sliding duel, have I mentioned that yet?). 925. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2013 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, though, after all the reading of books and watching of videos I have done, I just love Davey and Neil. They don't even come across as racers because they sound more like the people who go out and help disaster victims... They were that nice. There are just some people like that who come across as someone you wouldn't mind your child being a fan of. 926. The Long Shot posted: 07.11.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Man, though, after all the reading of books and watching of videos I have done, I just love Davey and Neil. They don't even come across as racers because they sound more like the people who go out and help disaster victims... They were that nice. There are just some people like that who come across as someone you wouldn't mind your child being a fan of." Isn't it sad how the best of us are usually the first to go? The same is true in NASCAR. Weatherly, Roberts, Lund, McDuffie, Kulwicki, Allison, Bonnett, Earnhardt, Wheldon, Trickle, and Leffler were all taken from us far too soon. I'm sure there are many that I'm forgetting, but the point has been made. It's just tragic. 927. David posted: 07.11.2013 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How about running Top 5 all day in the Fall Martinsville race (aka the Hurricane Hugo race)." Random fact: The #3 car won the pole for that race, but not with Dale Earnhardt. You know who actually won it? /Jimmy Hensley/, driving the #3 car because Earnhardt couldn't make it to the track for qualifying because of the aforementioned hurricane. "Want proof Davey was a cool dude? Darrell hated him. That is the ultimate stamp of having a great personality." Oh yeah. They had some wicked run-ins around 1991 or so. 928. David posted: 07.11.2013 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I'm genuinely curious as to how 3 career wrecks make someone a crash-prone driver" If they happen in three career races. Duh. "You keep saying "we," so are you like an actual member of Gordon's crew or something?" /THAT'S IT/!!!!!!!! That's why Jeff Gordon's cars have been cursed this year!!! /Anthony is on his team/!!!! 929. 83andJoe posted: 07.11.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) The biggest problem with the labeling of Darrell Wallace Jr. as "crash-prone", especially given that he is not, is that once you get "labeled" you never, ever shake it. 930. Eric posted: 07.11.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am different towards Rookie drivers than CJS3872 is. I believe in judging a driver in his or her 2nd year, not their first because of a transition period. The fact is some people are spoiled by Rookie Seasons of Stewart, Harvick, Johnson, Hamlin, Newman, or even Kyle Busch. A good Rookie season in cup in the modern era before Stewart was 1993 Jeff Gordon, 1987 Davy Allison, 1979 Dale Earnhardt, 1979 Terry Labonte, 1979 and Joe Millikan. 931. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That may be so, Eric, but those other drivers you mentioned at least ran up front, especially if they had good equipment like Gordon, Allison, Earnhardt, and even Millikan had. (remember that Millikan was driving for Benny Parsons' old team, L.G. Witt Racing, in 1979.) The reason I think that Stenhouse's rookie year has, to this point, been a mini-disaster has to do with the car he's driving and the team he's driving for. If you can't finish in the top ten even once for half a season driving for a team of that caliber and equipment of that caliber, then something's terribly wrong. And the fact is that he's rarely even run in the top ten at any point in these races, except for the one time he led at Kansas. That's a pretty awful record, especially considering those that have finished in the top ten at least once this year, especially when you consider who they drive for, and compare it to who Stenhouse drives for. Certainly he can turn it around, but if he doesn't soon, there are certainly going to be whispers as to whether or not he can get it done in the longer Cup races. 932. murb posted: 07.11.2013 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) That was a great piece that Race Hub did on Davey Allison. It's just a shame how he wasn't able to get another opportunity at winning a championship after the near miss in 1992. With how good those RYR cars were throughout the 90s and early 2000s, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have won at least one. Also, I just want to send a "screw you" to Jimmy "Fat Mouth" Spencer. He just said that Morgan Shepard is only doing this Cup race this weekend because he wants publicity. Hey Fat Mouth, did you ever stop to think that maybe Morgan just still loves getting in a race car? He's never stopped doing races, so that should show people that he still loves driving race cars, even if they are uncompetitive. So no, he's not doing it "just for publicity". What a total loser Spencer is. He's probably just jealous that he can't fit in a race car anymore. 933. Eric posted: 07.11.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My thoughts on Stenhouse is what I expect out of a rookie driver in cup except for no top 10's. 18th in points as rookie isn't too bad. Roush is known to rookie drivers that didn't have great rookie seasons in cup before Stenhouse. Here are my comments about Roush Rookie drivers in cup: Matt Kenseth - I thought he had a good rookie season, but is considered weaker than Hamlin, Stewart, Johnson, Newman, and Harvick's rookie seasons in cup. Kurt Busch - He is a guy as a rookie that CJS3872 would get a rid of if he was a cup owner based on track performance with only 3 top 5 and 6 top 10's. Kurt missed a race, had 15 races of finishing 30th or worse. That meant CJS3872 would look very stupid based on what Kurt Busch did inside the car after his rookie season. Greg Biffle - His rookie season was nothing special Outside fuel millage Daytona win in July. Biffle missed a race as rookie and only had 3 top 5's and 6 top 10's. Greg's rookie season actually was better than Kurt's was. Carl Edwards - His rookie season was incomplete in 2004, but was good when he raced in cup. He ran 13 cup races that year, but already had 5 top 10's and 1 top 5. That meant in a 36 race cup schedule, he would have anywhere from 10 to 17 top's as a rookie. David Ragan - He had a bad rookie year, but he shouldn't have been in cup to begin with in 2007 that was a disappointment at Roush. David before 2007 didn't race full time in the trucks or in Nationwide. That meant Roush did an ill-advised moved putting David Ragan in cup. 934. AveryNH posted: 07.11.2013 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the last thing Shep is after is publicity. J Spence must have something besides tobacco in those cigars if that's what he thinks. I only caught the tail end of the Davey piece. I could tell by the red in Mr Yates eyes that it was very heavy I'll need to re watch it later online. Touching on what NRF was talking about earlier Davey was a bit before my time. But Ernie D.J. and Mark were the heroes I grew up loving. Two of the coolest racing photos I've got are from the inaugural Slick 50 300, Davey's last race, its of he and Ernie going through driver intros together and them both riding on the back of a pickup around the track during pre race. Its framed on my bedroom wall. I've debated internally about sending it to Ernie to have him sign it. I just never have gotten around to it. Maybe one day. 935. Eric posted: 07.11.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You may talk equipment as much as you want, but Kurt had a bad 2001 season. While had glimpses of what he was going to be in the car based on the 2001 southern 500 before his problem in that race, his season was pretty bad despite having a pole, 6 top 10's and 3 top 5's. Kurt was a driver that had 15 races 30th or worse 15 times as a rookie in cup, and another 8 races finishing 20th or worse. That is a type of a rookie season I don't see want to give a 2nd cup season. 936. Eric posted: 07.11.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS3872, I meant to type This is a type of a rookie season you don't want to gave a 2nd season to instead of "That is a type of a rookie season I don't see want to give a 2nd cup season." 937. Eric posted: 07.11.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS3872, I hope you get my point of judging a cup driver in his rookie season in cup isn't the best thing to do when using Kurt Busch as a prime example. Kurt got better when he got Jimmy Fenning at the start of Kurt's 2nd cup season. While Roush was down on the cup level when Kurt was a rookie in 2001, Kurt still wasn't in bad equipment. Take a look at Kurt as a rookie to his 2nd year, Cup improved a lot with him having Jimmy Fennig as crew chief compare to having having Matt Chambers and Ben Leslie as crew chiefs when Kurt was a rookie driver. 938. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, if I remember right, Kurt Busch wasn't terrible in 2001, especially when you consider that Roush, as a whole, was downright awful that year. Sure, Jeff Burton won twice that year, but that was also the worst year that both Mark Martin and Matt Kenseth ever had at Roush, so the Roush organization, except for the #99 car of Burton, probably had it's worst-ever year in 2001. Martin had just three top fives that year (the same as Busch and Jimmy Spencer) and Kenseth had four (the same as Ricky Craven and Jerry Nadeau and one less than Steve Park and Jeremy Mayfield), and both finished outside the top ten in points, while Burton just squeezed in the top ten in 10th position. Let's also not forget that, for a good chunk of that season, Busch's #97 car was unsponsored, so Roush's organization, as a whole, had major problems that year. Busch was just wildly inconsistent and even failed to qualify for the fall race at Atlanta, which just shows how weak Roush's team was in 2001, because a team of that caliber should never fail to qualify for a race on a big track. 939. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.11.2013 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Nico, its funny you mention Neil and Davey as those that would help disaster victims. Davey's fatal helicoppter wreck was at Talladega, him and Red Farmer (who thankfully survived) were going to check on Neil and his son, David, who were testing there. Neil heard the crash and ran out to help Red out and get Davey out despite the helicopter being in a smoking heap and the engine still running, basically an explosion waiting to happen. 940. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.11.2013 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Fluke stat I discovered while thinking about the Fall '89 Martinsville race. As we all know Jimmy Hensley won the pole for that race in Dale's car. Do you guys know who never won a pole at Martinsville in Dale's car? Dale. He had to stay behind after Hurricane Hugo made a rare path through the Central Carolinas tearing up the fences on Dale's farm which he had to fix. That was the definitive "Dale can't qualify" race. Yet we are all shocked that he won a pole title in 1990 by winning four poles. Even more oddly, he won those four poles over a 5 race stretch. Did you guys know Jeff Gordon, who, as of the typing of this, has FIFTY more poles than Dale, only won 4 poles over a 5 race stretch twice? Once in '96, and again in '04 when he won 4 in a row. I'm gonna vote that as 2nd biggest fluke stat in NASCAR history, behind Bobby Allison having no wins at Martinsville. Your guys' thoughts? 941. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.11.2013 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What can you say really? Some guys were just awesome people. BP and Bobby Hamilton were like that. It's going to be hard when our "old-timers" are guys like Biffle and Kenseth, because they will not be the credit to our sport's history as Richard, Junior, and David have been. 942. Eric posted: 07.11.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here are my thoughts on the draft the racehub had on the drivers they picked in the first round: Brad Keselowski- I like the pick. The thing is I think there should restrictions in cases like this. Brad is already 29 and is in middle of his 4th full time cup season. I think he could the face of NASCAR since he's younger than Jimmie, Kevin, Tony, Jeff Gordon, and Matt are. The fact is Jeff's not as as his peak as a driver. I don't know if that is true for Stewart yet, but it seems like it. Matt, Stewart, and Gordon are in their 40's now along with Biffle. You don't know for sure when a driver is no longer in their prime. Ricky Stenhouse Jr. - He is worthy of being picked at this point since he's 18th in points. I think his problem is he has a rookie crew chief. I am not shocked he was picked in the first round Joey Logano - While Joey is only 23 years old, He is in cup for 5 full years. He is not a cup superstar at all and shouldn't spend a first round pick on. I don't see him as a cup superstar unless something out ordinary happens. Joey has improved since going to Penske, but he never will live up to the expectations on what was expected from him. I see him having 5 to 20 career cup wins. Chase Elliott - He has a lot of potential and is worthy of a first round pick. I am afraid of him being rushed at this point though. I do think he is high risk though. The problem I got is his cars so much better than the others in racing series chase is at. I was impress with him in the trucks at Dover though. Kyle Larson - I see flashes of a great upcoming talent and is worthy of a number 1st pick on someone's board. I think he needs a 2nd year in Nationwide at least. Kyle Busch - I don't know where Nate Ryan's head is at for this peak. While is 28 years old, he's been in cup since 2005 with 26 cup wins. I am afraid that Kyle doesn't many peak seasons left and I wouldn't pick him as a first round pick as a result. I am saying because of what happened to Jeff Gordon. Jeff was only 21 when he started his first full time cup season in 1993 at the 1993 Daytona 500 and that is only a couple years older than Kyle was in his rookie season. Jeff had better seasons in his 20's than his 30's. I admit the death of Dale Sr. affected Jeff Gordon a lot since Dale was his mentor, friend and business partner. The thing is I think Jeff would have been better in 20's anyway if Dale Sr. didn't in 2001. Alex Bowman - I think he's not a bad pick in the first round. I like to see what he can do in a top Nationwide ride. 943. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, I'm probably going to do a blog post on the mock draft done on Race Hub the last three nights, if someone else doesn't beat me to it, because it's liable to last longer there. But one of my beefs with their selections is why it took so long to bring up the name f the driver that two years ago won the Daytona 500, becoming the youngest driver ever to win any 500-mile automobile race, and in doing so, brought one of the most legendary teams with the old red and white paint job with the gold numerals on the side back to where old-time fans were used to seeing it--on top of the scoring pylon and in victory lane. But picking Joey Logano first, as Kyle Petty did, was a bit odd. 944. 83andJoe posted: 07.11.2013 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree about Stenhouse - the lack of top 10s is puzzling, but for a rookie he has an very good average finish so far. 945. Anthony posted: 07.11.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) What I mean by we I mean by this whole team no I'm not a member of Gordon's pit crew I support in fact even since when I was like 3 or 4 years old. Oh and you talk about Kevin Lepage & Chad Little being Roush teammates in the past yeah pretty much & talking about Ricky Stenhouse a comparison to Kevin Lepage & Chad Little were when they drove for Roush same years in fact. And yet Ricky is just like them today. Kevin thought he had a better car whoops (I would've given him a year or 2) Chad Little thinks that nothin runs like Deere when he should be up front winning well like Skinner who drove the lowes car Chad Little never run like a Deere oops I'm sorry did I forget to mention his '95 Busch Season where he could've would've should've win a championship. Plus Johnny Benson drove for Roush excuse me your talking to the wrong guy if I had Stephen A Smith talk about this there you go cause First Take don't know their NASCAR all they know is Danica. Jeff Gordon kinda reminds me of the Lakers this year not being what they used to be. Jimmie Johnson is no Casey Atwood nor Adam Petty he never met Dale Earnhardt he anticipates both Jeff Gordon & Dale Earnhardt while Benny always cheer for Gordon when he wins races & championships especially the 1997 Food City 500 where Benny is jumping up & down like it is. Do I have an issue absolutly Skip Bayless will talk about it. Do I have to be series only when Jimmie Johnson wins. Jimmie was Brett nor Skinner nope he had it made for himself. I lost a lot of respect for Jimmie 1000000000% & I'm raising the roof whoop whoop Jeff Gordon is gonna win a race Benny is all "About that Kid Gordon he is one heck of a driver I can promise you that he gonna win a championship baby!" Oh & yes nowadays Jimmie is gonna have some problems he will fail. OH WAIT Jeff Gordon has a life time contract. Will Rick do the same for Johnson HELL TO THE NO!! I be all whhaaaaaaaaa. Goodnight Go 24 946. murb posted: 07.11.2013 - 10:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...Okay then. 947. The Long Shot posted: 07.11.2013 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ummmm...did anyone else understand more than a couple of words of Anthony's post? 948. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 11:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not sure, The Long Shot, but I'm not sure I'd take it seriously, anyway. And by the way, over the last three nights, NASCAR Race Hub did a mock draft of future stars of the sport. There were seven analysts that each chose three drivers. I made a blog post in the last couple of hours of not just all 21 drivers that were selected, as well as the analyst that chose them, but also the 15 drivers that were also on that board, but were not chosen, which include James and Chris Buescher, last year's Truck and ARCA champions, respectively, and Cameron Hayley, who won the Battle at the Beach race for the K&N Series cars and teams. 949. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.11.2013 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish I'd have been old enough to watch and appreciate Davey Allison while he was racing. Thankfully, I've gotten to watch old races on ESPN Classic and YouTube to see him race. As far as Stenhouse goes, I wouldn't say he is doing bad but he does need to step it up considering he has two teammates that have won this year. 950. cjs3872 posted: 07.11.2013 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Stenhouse has to start becoming visible in races for reasons other than igniting or being involved in crashes and get a few top tens. He doesn't have to contend for wins, but at least he needs to become more competitive, which he's not been so far this year. I would actually think it would have been better for him to run up front and have the crashes that rookies are bound to have due to lack of experience. I wonder if being so close to Danica has rubbed off on him and taken away some of his speed, because Danica sure doesn't have any. If I was his crew chief (thank goodness I'm not), I would urge Stenhouse, or any other rookie, for that matter, to run harder, and if they go over that edge, then so be it. Knowing where that edge is, is something that can be learned through experience. But Stenhouse hasn't even been competitive this year, which would bother me if I was affiliated with the Roush Racing outfit. He's been finishing more often than I thought he would, but not running as well as he should in the equipment he's in, and that's bothersome for a driver with seemingly so much potential. 951. The Long Shot posted: 07.11.2013 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm not sure, The Long Shot, but I'm not sure I'd take it seriously, anyway." I'm not. As a matter of fact, I'm a bit worried. He mentioned Skip Bayless (enough said), he stated that he would apparently "raise the roof", which concerns me deeply, as I'm fairly sure he's not strong enough to do that, and he said that he "be all whaaa", which I guess signifies that he will be crying in the near future. Is anyone else worried about him? Should we get him to a doctor? 952. Paul posted: 07.12.2013 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The #3 car won the pole for that race, but not with Dale Earnhardt. You know who actually won it? Jimmy Hensley" Even more funny is that Dale didn't win a single pole in 1989 (shocking, right?), and that was Hensley's only Cup appearance all season. So Hensley's 1989 Winston Cup stats read: "0 starts, 1 pole." Pretty neat. "they mentioned the same thing about Darrell Wallace, Jr. that I mentioned a couple of weeks back, about how crash-prone he is." Bubba Wallace isn't crash-prone, he's a rookie. Rookies make rookie mistakes, like wrecking while racing another car as the caution waves for a different wreck. He'll be fine, just give him time to mature as a driver. Having a top Cup driver like Kyle Busch as his boss and teammate doesn't hurt either. "David Ragan - He had a bad rookie year, but he shouldn't have been in cup to begin with in 2007" That was a puzzling decision, but then again other teams made the same mistake of rushing drivers up to Cup too quickly in 2007. DEI did it with Paul Menard, Ganassi did it with Juan Pablo Montoya, and Red Bull did it with AJ Allmendinger. At least Ragan got a full-time Nationwide ride out of it as well, so he was able to learn the race tracks much quicker than some of those other rushed rookies that didn't have the same fortune. 953. 83andJoe posted: 07.12.2013 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, the picks I mostly agree with (aside from Larry Mac clearly exhibiting a bit of non-neutrality with his third pick, lol) but I agree that dropping Bayne that low in the draft is puzzling. Also, looking at the "undrafted", the only one of those that truly puzzles me is James Buescher - I wonder if they truly think he's not a top 21 prospect, of if the albatross that seems to be the Truck Series championship title (earned or not) might be influencing them? One thing that DOES absolutely have me scratching my head, though, is that they didn't have Johanna Long on the board. 954. 83andJoe posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meanwhile, in news: Landon Cassill will be running a No. 40 car for Joe Falk and Mike Hillman in some races starting at the Brickyard where Austin Dillon is supposed to run the 33, and Goodyear's Eldora tire will be a bias-ply one. 955. Anthony posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (5) Jeff Gordon will win you'll see. In fact Jimmy Spencer would be throwing his cigar out saying hey how bout a cigar to go with it. Jimmie Will Fall Gordon Will Rise 956. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2013 - 8:05 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Jimmie Will Fall Gordon Will Rise" As a Gordon fan, I can wish, but I know that's dumb, so let's revise this. I WISH that Jimmie would fall; I WISH that Gordon would rise; I KNOW that Anthony has fallen lower than all. What the hell does he smoke?! 957. Anthony posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (5) No I don't smoke in fact it's disgusting. In fact Jimmie is the one who will crash on the last lap just like Michigan same thing to Loudon & the track he ruin us @. Indy the place where a guy out of no where wins it 2 years ago by a rookie & of course Jimmie in fact is the most reckless driver ever period 958. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:24 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Jimmie in fact is the most reckless driver ever period" Kyle Busch, Kurt Busch, Juan Pablo Montoya, Tony Stewart, Sam Hornish, Nur Ali, Ernie Irvan, Geoff Bodine, Todd Bodine, and Buckshot Jones, among MANY others, may have some objections to this. 959. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Anthony, please tell me you're joking. There is no way a person born in this country could possibly have that bad of sentence structure without being coked to the gills on drugs or reincarnation of Willy on Wheels. 960. Paul posted: 07.12.2013 - 11:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Largely speculated before, it's been made official that Budweiser will indeed be moving to SHR with Kevin Harvick next season. No surprise that RaceHub selected Chase Elliott so early into their mock draft, despite his less than stellar K&N Pro Series East stats. The fact that he's a Hendrick developmental driver and has a very devout fanbase that would probably send them a ton of hate mail if they didn't select him trump those stats. He's a good driver, don't get me wrong, but I have a feeling that Chase is going to become the next Dale Earnhardt, Jr. when it comes to receiving a load of media coverage and adoration due to who he is, as opposed to what he can do on the track. 961. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.12.2013 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Also made official...Ryan Newman out at Stewart-Haas next year. 962. Jim Davis posted: 07.12.2013 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "One thing that DOES absolutely have me scratching my head, though, is that they didn't have Johanna Long on the board." No way is Long ready for a Cup ride. She has yet to run a full season at any level of NASCAR and has no road course experience whatever. 963. 13 posted: 07.12.2013 - 12:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anybody else excited to see how Billy johnson will do in the 16 this weekend? 964. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anybody else excited to see how Billy johnson will do in the 16 this weekend?" I'm not expecting much from him, personally. Johnson is a road course specialist first and foremost, so the fact that Roush is running him on an oval track is a bit confusing to me. 965. Smiff_2 posted: 07.12.2013 - 12:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey Zack, where did you hear that about Newman? I can't find anything concrete about him on Jayski... 966. 13 posted: 07.12.2013 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anybody else excited to see how Billy johnson will do in the 16 this weekend?" I'm not expecting much from him, personally. Johnson is a road course specialist first and foremost, so the fact that Roush is running him on an oval track is a bit confusing to me. I'm not either really, but i like seeing different types of drivers get chances on tracks that arent necessarily their wheelhouse, like Max Papis at Iowa 967. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm not either really, but i like seeing different types of drivers get chances on tracks that arent necessarily their wheelhouse, like Max Papis at Iowa" Same here. What I'd like to see is whether he could get a Cup ride for Watkins Glen. Perhaps FAS Lane Racing could give him a chance in their car, much like they did with Andrew Ranger in 2011. 968. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2013 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smiff, look again. There's plenty on Jayski now. 969. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's pretty much what I expected to happen at SHR. It would have been a very dumb move for them to expand to four cars, considering how much they've struggled with three cars this year. It will be interesting to see where Newman ends up. 970. Smiff_2 posted: 07.12.2013 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ahhh yup, I see it now. 971. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.12.2013 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To be honest I'm not really surprised to see Tony Stweart make this move. I knew all along Stewart wasn't going to expand from an already-struggling three car team to four. Danica brings in the money even though she is a 25th place driver at best nearly every week, therefore she's not going anywhere. So you knew that Newman was going to get left out. As for where Newman will go next year, I think that RCR could be an option, but with Burton staying there next year along with the Dillons going there in the next few years, it seems unlikely. If MIchael Waltrip's team expanded to four cars next year, that's a possibility (although I haven't heard anything on Waltrip doing that). Or if Kurt Busch leaves Furniture Row after this year, Newman can go there. 972. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For any other car owner, it would be a no-brainer to put Ryan Newman in your car over Brian Vickers. But I guess Michael Waltrip is sticking with his idiotic "Brian Vickers: Future Cup Champ" mantra. Vickers certainly has proven over the last couple years that he deserves a Cup ride, but I would much rather go with Newman over Vickers if I had to choose between them. I've heard that Kurt Busch declined his option to stay with Furniture Row (dumb move if you ask me, they've been rock solid this year), so maybe he'll leave for RCR and Newman will then end up in the 78. There's always the 9 car at RPM too since I'm pretty sure Ambrose is leaving. So there are actually quite a few quality options for Newman for next year. 973. jabber1990 posted: 07.12.2013 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) is it safe to assume that Harvick will keep Jimmy Johns and and Rheem as well? is it safe to assume that Quicken Loans and Outback are staying with Newman? so whats the pecking order at SHR? is it 14, 10, 39? or 14, 39, 10? Harvick is going from the #1 team to the #2 team? 974. 18fan posted: 07.12.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 39 team will run the #4 next year. 975. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, how can you say it's a bad move for Kurt Busch to leave the #78 car for next year? That team's cost him a chance to win several races this year, most notably the All-Star Race. All things considered, Kurt Busch might be the best driver in the sport this year, when you factor in the team he's driving for. If he was with a team with any kind of depth in personnel, along with equipment the caliber he's in this year, he would be a real serious threat to the #20 and #48 for the championship. But the fact is that the #78 Furniture Row team, as a single car team, just doesn't have the depth and personnel that can compete with the big teams, and I think all parties involved know it. That's why I think that Kurt eventually falls out of the drivers currently in the Chase field and Brad Keselowski moves back in, and I think everyone else that's currently in, stays in. Kurt just doesn't have the people, and I think that will prove to be his undoing in trying to make the Chase. It would be a great story if Kurt could make it, but his only chance is to stay in the top ten, and I think they eventually fall out, perhaps as early as this week. 976. 83andJoe posted: 07.12.2013 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) >No way is Long ready for a Cup ride. She has yet to run a full season at any level of NASCAR and has no road course experience whatever. No way are Chase Elliott, Ross Kenseth (who has yet to run ANY NASCAR races AT ALL) Michael Self, Corey LaJoie, Brandon McReynolds, gray Gaulding, Brennan Poole, Ben Kennedy, Kenzie Ruston, etc. ready for a Cup ride either, but there they were on the draft board. 977. 83andJoe posted: 07.12.2013 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also puzzling (if not quite as much so as the absence of Long, which becomes more so when Kenzie Ruston is on the board) is the fact they didn't think of Erik Jones. 978. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Murb, how can you say it's a bad move for Kurt Busch to leave the #78 car for next year?" Where else is he gonna go that's better than where he's currently at? RCR? RCR will probably be a total trainwreck next year. It sounds like they are gonna try and expand to four cars (Childress has come out and said that Burton and Menard are staying for sure), and every time they've expanded like that they've always struggled. Other than RCR, the only real potentially open ride is the 9 car at RPM, and we don't even know if that's for sure or not. And even if it does become open, I highly doubt that he would be chosen for that ride over someone like Trevor Bayne or AJ Allmendinger, both guys that have ties to Ford and that team. So yeah, Todd Berrier is a terrible race caller and the 78 team has cost Kurt wins and good runs a couple of different times this year, but it's probably the best option for him for the foreseeable future. His only other real option will be with RCR, and I think that team is gonna be a total mess next year, given their history of struggling when they expand to another team. 979. 18fan posted: 07.12.2013 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 48 car is having trouble getting through tech. 980. 18fan posted: 07.12.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And the 48 car passed tech. 981. joey2448 posted: 07.12.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And the 48 car just took provisional pole....after having trouble in tech. Scratch that, Bad Brad just took it. 982. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.12.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad K top of the board. Hopefully this is the weekend they finally right the ship. 983. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also puzzling (if not quite as much so as the absence of Long, which becomes more so when Kenzie Ruston is on the board) is the fact they didn't think of Erik Jones." You know who they also left out? Parker Kligerman. Considering how well he has performed this season, that's pathetic on SPEED's part. 984. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keselowski is officially on pole for Loudon. And despite timing in half a second slower than the next fastest driver, Morgan Shepherd will not start last on Sunday, as David Stremme apparently wrecked during his lap. 985. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, if Kurt wants to win races and contend for a championship again, he can't do it with the team he's with. He's got to get to a bigger team that has the depth and personnel to compete, especially on pit road, which is where a smaller team like Furniture Row Racing is likely to get squashed by the bigger teams. Equipment's not the problem, but the depth of the organization, especially where the pit crew is concerned, is where that team and others like it get beat. If he stays with the team he's with, there stands a good chance that he'll never win again. Remember the one race that team won, the 2011 Southern 500, was won by a pit stop they did not make. 986. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He's got to get to a bigger team that has the depth and personnel to compete" Well, if we're talking about next year, the only "big" team that is an option for him is RCR, and if he wants to win a lot and contend for a championship, RCR isn't the answer. 987. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.12.2013 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson wil start 43rd on Sunday after failing post qualifying inspection. 988. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not surprising Newman is out at SHR. Harvick as a stock looks a lot better than Newman right now. Ryan had one great year in 2003 but has looked among the pack (to put it mildly) since. Wins in the past 3 years: Newman: 3 (1 per year) Harvick: 10 (3 in 2010, 4 in 2011, one last year, and 2 so far this year) 989. Ryan W posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's eight straight top 10's for The Closer and nine out of the last ten. 990. Mr.Victory posted: 03.07.2018 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cars involved lap 149 wreck: 51, 47, 11, 20, 24, 83, 7, 87(contact with 47). 991. ACM88 posted: 04.01.2018 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) last career top 5 and last top 10 qualifying effort for Michael waltrip 992. Rich posted: 12.19.2020 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Matt Yocum, Ralph Sheheen, Marty Snider and Chris Neville were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: