|| *Comments on the 2013 Camping World RV Sales 301:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (20) (0) Wow, that was fast! Webmaster, you are well and truly the best. 2. 18fan posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 3rd career pole for Brad, first since 2011 Coke 600. 3. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Out of his three poles, two of them are at New Hampshire. He got his first career pole at New Hampshire in 2010 if I'm not mistaken. Pretty interesting. 4. TS1420 posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (3) (4) The Miller Lite car earns the Coors Light pole award! Hopefully Bad Brad & Co find their 2012 mojo and become a nightmare for the 48 bunch again. Kevin Harvick & Budweiser going to Stewart-Haas Racing to drive the #4 car? WOW! I am shocked at this breaking news!... ;) But SHR is making a huge mistake by getting rid of Newman instead of Princess Backmarker. She may bring along sponsorship, but she is a resource drain & she can't be giving any good usable feedback other than "make my car good now!". Ever notice how the 48 always has problems clearing pre-qualifying inspection? Must be Rick's checks have a hard time clearing fast enough to suit NASCAR. 5. We need more Onion posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (9) (2) Look at the 42th starting position! Probably an S&P, but shout out to Morgan, coming here at the age of 71 and being 1.5 seconds off Champion pace with the undoubtedly worst car in the field. And good job BoB, you just got outqualified by Michael McDowell, a valet. 6. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) *pulls finger back slightly from the Brad Keselowski 2013 panic button* 7. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) *pushes DSFF's finger into Brad Keselowski 2013 panic button* 8. joey2448 posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) David Stremme almost topped out at 37 mph on his Q lap! Lol, what happened was that he hit the wall exiting turn two on his first lap, and in a questionable move, decided to turn around before finishing the lap and try it again, hoping to put in a good second lap. Once he got down into turn one on his second lap, the car simply wouldn't stick (likely because of the damage on his right rear quarter panel), and he ditched his second lap. Carl Edwards did what he always does -- took off his sunglasses right as he was about to be interviewed, lol. Ol' Bad Brad, maybe this will be the start of another edition of the Summer of Brad. Part II. 9. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) So far so good for Brad K and the 2 team. Go get 'em on Sunday Bad Brad! Shout out to Morgan Shepherd on making the field, I believe I read somewhere that they plan on running the full race. Sure hope that's true. 10. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Unlike this year, Brad is now qualified to race in next February's Sprint Unlimited. 11. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 2 has found something expect real speed over the next 3 wees with the next 3 tracks needing similar setups 12. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kevin Harvick & Budweiser going to Stewart-Haas Racing to drive the #4 car? WOW! I am shocked at this breaking news!... ;)" Harvick going to SHR wasn't breaking news, but Budweiser going over was. 13. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) JJ's 2nd place starting spot has been disallowed for the car being too low in tech inspection. 14. We need more Onion posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Without Kodak sponsorship, #4 will never be that awesome as it used to be... 15. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (6) (1) NICOOOOOOOOO!!! Brad said they tested here and would show speed. So far they have, so I am temporarily relieved and my finger is no longer resting on the button ready to press it frantically. Also, JJ's time disallowed for being too low after having technical issues all day. They better hammer him the way they hammered the 2 and 20 teams earlier in the year. 16. DB1995 posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Jimmie johnsons time disallowed for being to low 17. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) #4 will always be Ernie's number. The loveable winner/wrecking machine, Swervin Irvan. Damn he was fun to watch in those days. He was Kyle Busch with a personable attitude (and worse equipment). 18. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) Pigs have flown. Nascar disallows something from the 48. 19. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.12.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Must be Rick's checks have a hard time clearing fast enough to suit NASCAR." I guess the check bounced, because Johnson failed inspection and will have to start at the rear of the field Sunday. 20. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.12.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (6) (1) Jimmie Johnson starting 43rd after failing post-qualifying inspection. 21. ch posted: 07.12.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Look at the 42th starting position! Probably an S&P, but shout out to Morgan, coming here at the age of 71 and being 1.5 seconds off Champion pace with the undoubtedly worst car in the field." Very true, but it will be a full race. They're fully sponsored, and Brian has confirmed it on the teams FB page. 22. The Great Dave posted: 07.12.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) yeah but those are second hand parts on the #52...... :/ 23. startandparkfan posted: 07.12.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I would like to see Kurt get a win for Furniture Row. He has come close, but never made it. Gordon's up there, so is Hamlin, Kahne, Edwards, Burton, Montoya, McMurray, Menard, and Newman. I'd be happy with any of those winning. Love to see Shepherd out-qualify Johnson, even if it is a post-race inspection thing. Hope the team can keep a clean race car, and avoid mechanical problems, Lead-Lap is out of the question since it is a shorter track. 24. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (8) (1) Well, the biggest cheaters in the history of the sport get caught yet again. I suspect that they were trying to qualify a substantially illegal car. First, they have issues with the right side skirt, as well as the weight of the car, and now the front of the car is too low. I wonder if they're doing something to drag the car down, so it's lower than everyone else's car, and I'm not talking about springs and shocks, but rather something else mechanically in the chassis to drive it into the ground. I also wonder if NASCAR has figured out why the #48 car has been so dominant of late, because with all that they caught them doing today, it makes me wonder if their other recent runs were legitimate, because with all that NASCAR discovered today, I find it highly improbable that they haven't been running these things in the last six or seven races, but rather it took that long for NASCAR to finally catch them. This is only speculation, of course. But NASCAR again catches the #48 team doing something that none of the other HMS teams would dare mess around with, probably because they know it's illegal. Because whatever the #48 team got caught doing today, and I think it goes beyond just being too low and something with the right side skirt they've been doing for weeks, and just now got caught. And of course, the irony can't be lost that Brad Keselowski wins the pole on the same day that the #48 team gets caught cheating for what seems like the one millionth time, since it's believed by many that it was the #48 team that turned in the Penske team at Texas. One potential infraction is one thing, but the #48 team got caught three different times today, twice before qualifying, each for a different infraction, and after qualifying for yet another infraction, which I think may be caused by some big-time cheating, though there's no way I can prove it. But I think NASCAR finally figured out what they were doing, and busted them on it. 25. Eric posted: 07.12.2013 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) I hope the 48 team gets a 2nd place finish because I want that team is get inspected after the race since they are running amok of the rules this weekend with a cheated up racecar this extreme. To me if the 48 team get get caught post race inspection, Chad need to get suspended for 12 races and 300 points. So Far this weekend, Chad need to be suspended for 8 to 10 races and take away 200 points. Any race team that has 3 different rule violations before the race, needs to be penalized harshly. 26. TS1420 posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "Harvick going to SHR wasn't breaking news, but Budweiser going over was." I pretty much figured it was 100% certain Budweiser was following Harvick to SHR when the 14 team had Budweiser flowing in Victory Lane at Dover. Yet another shocker for the day: The #48 team busted for cheating! :o Though Jimmie's infraction(s) would be so much sweeter if it had came during the 2nd New Hampshire race in the chase, along with a points penalty. Hopefully NASCAR has found (or finally decided stop looking the other way and to put an end to) whatever tricks the 48 team has been up to for the past 6 oval races that have made them uber superior to even the 2nd best car in the field. "I guess the check bounced, because Johnson failed inspection and will have to start at the rear of the field Sunday." Maybe Hendrick is getting into check fraud to go along with his mail fraud. 27. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "I pretty much figured it was 100% certain Budweiser was following Harvick to SHR when the 14 team had Budweiser flowing in Victory Lane at Dover." So did I, but it wasn't officially announced until today. About the Johnson penalty, all I can say is: if NASCAR can prove that the 48 team has been running illegal equipment over these past 6-8 races, then Chad Knaus needs to be suspended for the remainder of the season (preferably indefinitely), the team should be docked 150 points, and all team members should be placed on an indefinite probation. That's a fair deal, right? Seriously, though, the fact that it took NASCAR that long to find something illegal with the 48 is just another example of how bad of a job the sanctioning body has done this year. If nobody is penalized more than simply being placed on probation, then this year will go down as the most tainted year in NASCAR history, and I will officially lose interest in the Cup championship battle. 28. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (6) (1) Since I said I will stay out of Johnson discussions unless I can be objective, I won't say much, but I will say this. Revenge is a b!tch, Chad. 29. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Nico must have shouted, "Piss off, Jimmie!", while qualifying was going on. 30. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) They just had this piece on SportsCenter about how Jimmie started his own hashtag on Twitter that is called "#BlameJJ". Maybe he should start another one now called "#BlameMyCrewChiefAndFelonCarOwnerForTheAsteriskThatIsNextToEverythingThatIHaveAccomplished". 31. Smiff_2 posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, from what I saw on the bottom ticker on SPEED channel, there will be NO further penalty other than them having to drop to the rear... Not cool. 32. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Well, from what I saw on the bottom ticker on SPEED channel, there will be NO further penalty other than them having to drop to the rear..." Classic Nascar (in)consistency. 33. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""Well, from what I saw on the bottom ticker on SPEED channel, there will be NO further penalty other than them having to drop to the rear..." Classic Nascar (in)consistency. " I guess the check didn't bounce. 34. JG24FanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) It took Gordon 697 races to qualify last for the first time when he crashed at Kansas. Johnson did it in 418 races by failing inspection. Fitting 35. We need more Onion posted: 07.12.2013 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) @34 Bah, it only took 1 race for Paul Menard. 36. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.12.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Why, Long Shot, how did you know? ;) Hark, is that tinge of humanity I see in our robot friend R2D2 cjs? 37. AveryNH posted: 07.12.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'd be severely disappointed in Nascar if they fail to even fine the 48. How can you just gloss over the fact that the car was obviously illegal? And you let them make adjustments and yet they still failed post quali tech? and you just let them off without even a slap on the wrist? Makes no sense. Then again what's new. 38. jabber1990 posted: 07.12.2013 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) you cant convince me that you all expected the 48 to get in trouble about this 39. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) Yep, classic NASCAR. Hendrick has always got away with felonies. 40. 1970 Challenger posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) This will only be a one-off post, but I just want to say that I started reading the comments on this site a few months ago, and all I can say is "WOW". All of your knowledge of this sport is incredible, and I have learned so much about racing just by reading you guys. Keep up the good work. Anyways, what I came here to say was this: it's pretty funny that the issue of side skirts came up today, because all of this was just said: July 9 12 Questions with Jeff Gluck (Jimmie Johnson): Jeff: "I've been asking each driver to give a question for the next interview. Last week was Jeff Burton and he wanted to know, "If you could make one rule change on the Gen-6 car, what would it be". Jimmie: I would open up the side skirt rule and not have a minimum height requirement on the side skirts". Jeff: "What would that do"? Jimmie: I think it would open up some options in the rear suspension package and what you do. Right now, we're all very focused on getting the car to travel and getting it (down to the track surface) and trying to seal it up-- because the aerodynamic advantage is so great. Before, we had a few more inches and we're down quite a bit. If you opened that back up and didn't have a minimum and let people find the home they wanted to, it might create some different approaches to set up the car and not just pin you down on one setup where we're all following each other". Coincidence? 41. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Asking for the hammer to be dropped on the #48 team is wishful thinking, and this incident really doesn't compare to the infractions by the #2, #20, and #22 teams this season as those were post-race incidents. The Penske infractions involved deliberate manipulation of the suspension and the Gibbs penalty involved a modification of an engine component (though not their fault), which is a definite no-no. Based on precedent, I'd expect a 6 point driver and owner penalty, $25,000 fine for Knaus, and probation for Knaus. That's similar to the penalty given to the #56 team, and even that was a post-race incident. If whatever caused the #48 to fail inspection was not fully eliminated and they fail post-race inspection too, then there's probably more to the story and they'll probably deserve a penalty along the lines of the Penske cars. 42. JG24FanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Races that Jeff Gordon has spun on his own(not counting qualifying): 2 1993 First Union 400, North Wilkesboro Speedway 2002 Food City 500, Bristol Motor Speedway Races that Jimmie Johnson has spun on his own: 3 per year including his debut at Charlotte in 2001. 43. jabber1990 posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) oh, and to lighten the mood from a possible "jimmie-fest" I work with a guy who looks like the guy who got Jr's text saying he couldn't text since he's a mechanic and works Monday-Friday that actually makes sence 44. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Why, Long Shot, how did you know? ;)" Lucky guess. From now on, start saying that more. You'd be doing us a huge favor by doing that. "Well, from what I saw on the bottom ticker on SPEED channel, there will be NO further penalty other than them having to drop to the rear..." *extends 2 middle fingers to NASCAR* "you cant convince me that you all expected the 48 to get in trouble about this" No, but hey, we can dream, can't we? 45. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) It's just lame because this is at least the third time this year that they've had problems getting through qualifying inspection. It happened at Phoenix, and it happened at one other race too that I'm blanking on at the moment. I just feel like there needs to be some sort of penalty for having so many damn problems getting through tech in one season. When it happens this much, it's painfully obvious that they are trying to manipulate things on the car. 46. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NLA, any one of the infractions committed by the #48 team today certainly don't rise up to what the Penske team did at Texas, or what TRD did at Kansas with Matt Kenseth's engine (I'm absolving JGR of any responsibility, since it wasn't even their part that was in violation of the rules), but the #48 team committed three different infractions today. The first was with the right side skirt, the second was being underweight, and the third was having the front end too low. As the old saying goes, "three strikes and you're out", or at least it should be that way. What NASCAR should have done is confiscate the car after it flunked the post-qualifying inspection for it's third infraction, because I definitely think there's something fishy going on with that car, especially since it's been so dominant of late. In interviews after having their respective problems at Michigan, both Dale, Jr. and Kasey Kahne wondered about why Jimmie Johnson's car was significantly much faster than theirs, which should have raised some red flags then. We know all three of those cars are usually significantly faster than Jeff Gordon's car, but for both Dale, Jr. and Kasey Kahne to openly suggest that their cars are slower than Jimmie's on a weekly basis should sound a warning flare to both NASCAR and Hendrick Motorsports, because it's obvious that Chad Knaus has found something that either he's not sharing with the other HMS teams (golly, what a surprise that would be), or the other HMS teams aren't running that stuff because they doubt the legality of what Knaus is running, much like Alan Gustafson wouldn't run the trick rear end setups that the other HMS teams were running just prior to the Chase last year because he probably didn't think they were legal. 47. The Long Shot posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I work with a guy who looks like the guy who got Jr's text saying he couldn't text" But...if he couldn't text, then how could he text that he couldn't text? :P Races that Jeff Gordon has spun on his own with Chad Little in the field (not counting qualifying): 0 Races that Jimmie Johnson has spun on his own with Chad Little in the field: 0 (the two raced against each other only once; at Dover in 2002, which Jimmie won) 48. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My mistake. When I said that this is the third time that Jimmie's had qualifying inspection problems this year, I was wrong. I'm pretty sure this is only the second time (Phoenix was the other race). I think I was thinking of whichever race that Jeff Gordon was having problems getting through inspection. Still, I would like to see some penalties for the 48 on this one. They had problems getting through tech, finally made it through, and still failed post-qualifying tech. Pretty ridiculous. 49. cjs3872 posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Murb, earlier in the season, everybody seemed to have problems getting through inspection. Jeff Gordon's car barely got on the grid for the Daytona 500, and that was just one significant example. But there was a definite problem with the inspection process early this season. In fact, not only did Jimmie Johnson have trouble getting through pre-qualifying inspection at Phoenix, but do you know who else had that same problem that weekend? The #47 JTG-Daugherty team of driver Bobby Labonte. The fact that the #47 team had trouble getting through inspection that same weekend shows that there were problems with the inspection process early in the season, so I don't count that against the #48 team. And usually, when one team has trouble getting through inspection, it's usually the same problem, but in the case of the #48 today, it was multiple problems, and they were STILL found be illegal even in post-qualifying inspection. If I were one of the top brass at the track, I would have had the car impounded after that episode, especially after the way it's dominated since Dover, just to see what they've been up to. Maybe they'd find some stuff out about why that team's been dominating so much, even to the point where the other HMS cars can't even keep up. 50. Baker posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) And it just keeps coming. Knaus and Johnson are simply scum. He will still win the race and lead the most laps...the last 120+ 51. DB1995 posted: 07.12.2013 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How many BS debris cautions will we have Sunday? 52. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Races that Jeff Gordon has spun on his own(not counting qualifying): 2" Dude, in 1993 he spun on his own quite a bit. That is what we meant when we expected Ricky to have a "Gordon in '93" season this year. Hell, in the 1993 season finale weekend at Atlanta, Jeff wrecked on his own in practice, then wrecked his backup on his own in the race. He also wrecked on his own in his first ever race, the famous '92 Hooter's 500 (the only race ever with Petty, Earnhardt, and Gordon, they all wrecked, Dale and Jeff wrecked unassisted, and Richard got caught in a wreck he would have avoided in his prime). And if I'm not mistaken he also wrecked unassisted at the first Dover and first Pocono race. And didn't he have the '93 Winston Open won before losing it and wrecking? Plus in the Fall Dover race he was among the leaders all day, leading laps, until he rear ended Geoff Bodine being impatient (what a shame for Geoff), messing up his front end, putting him back in the pack to get involved in the big wreck when Rusty, 2 laps down from a flat tire under green, turned Hut Strickland, who was first in the lap down line, right into Dale, the points leader over Rusty, wrecking him intentionally. I'll have to double check some of these. Look, I'm the #1 proponent of "ever since Jeff "got it" in '95, he's been the least error prone driver out there". But '93 was ugly. Fast, but ugly. 53. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "the #48 team committed three different infractions today. The first was with the right side skirt, the second was being underweight, and the third was having the front end too low. As the old saying goes, "three strikes and you're out", or at least it should be that way. What NASCAR should have done is confiscate the car after it flunked the post-qualifying inspection for it's third infraction, because I definitely think there's something fishy going on with that car, especially since it's been so dominant of late." And the media wonders why the fans don't respect the 48 team's accomplishments. 2006* 2007* 2008* 2009* 2010* 2013* 54. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not to belabor the point, but what about the 1997 Atlanta season finale pit road crash? 55. kobaltman posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And the media wonders why the fans don't respect the 48 team's accomplishments." 2006* 2007* 2008* 2009* 2010* 2013* Correct me if I'm wrong, but what exactly happened in 2008-2010? Before Daytona last year, the last rules infraction for the #48 team was in 2007. 56. 83andJoe posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) And some fans wonder why we chuckle and smile at the "Good Ol' Boys" like Smokey Yunick and Gary Nelson and whatnot who would bend the rules into a pretzel and That's Racin but we throw Knaus under a busload of asterisks. 57. JG24FanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And if I'm not mistaken he also wrecked unassisted at the first Dover and first Pocono race." He was spun in both. 58. TS1420 posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Of course NASCAR won't penalize the unrepentant cheataholics that is the 48 team any further despite the fact they had *_THREE_* infractions over two inspection processes. Chad Knaus should be looking at a season vacation (if not a lifetime vacation for all the crap he's pulled over the years) and along with car confiscated, dissected & put on display for all the other teams to get a good look at. 59. JG24FanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Not to belabor the point, but what about the 1997 Atlanta season finale pit road crash?" I'm only talking bout the race. Not practice or qualifying. and I missed Texas in 2008, his last unassisted spin. 60. murb posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And some fans wonder why we chuckle and smile at the "Good Ol' Boys" like Smokey Yunick and Gary Nelson and whatnot who would bend the rules into a pretzel and That's Racin but we throw Knaus under a busload of asterisks." I think one of the big reasons why those old school guys were "smiled upon" for it was that they just didn't give a damn what anybody thought about it. Meanwhile, every time someone brings it up to Jimmie or Chad, they get totally bent out of shape and start acting ultra defensive. If they would just play it off and ignore "the haters" instead of making sarcastic/smartass remarks and making sarcastic/smartass Twitter hashtags, they probably wouldn't be so personally criticized for it. At least not from me. 61. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He was spun in both." Ok. I know he was assisted at Spring Darlington by legendary bum Michael Waltrip and at Phoenix by legendary legend (and Jeff's mentor and partner in business) Earnhardt. 62. JG24FanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "and I missed Texas in 2008, his last unassisted spin." actually, Jeff Had flat tire. his last unassisted spin was the 2002 Food City 500 at Bristol Motor Speedway,11 years ago. 63. AveryNH posted: 07.12.2013 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think guys like Nelson and Yunick were witty and crafty in how they bent the rules and slid past officials. Chad, to me at least, takes the rule book, maniacally laughs at it and tries his absolute best to defy them. He's clever yes, I certainly will give him credit there, I mean he practically invented the crab walk rear suspension that you so often saw towards the end of the gen 4 era and now see a bunch in ARCA. But he sure does get caught reaching into the cookie jar far too many times for me to respect him and not question his integrity. 64. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.12.2013 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "In interviews after having their respective problems at Michigan, both Dale, Jr. and Kasey Kahne wondered about why Jimmie Johnson's car was significantly much faster than theirs, which should have raised some red flags then." That's why I find it unusual that Junior said after his engine blew up at Michigan how he and Johnson's cars are the same. But what Junior probably forgot to mention is how his cars are always built legal, unlike Johnson. 65. Rexrobe posted: 07.12.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) The difference between someone like Smokey Yunick and Chad Knaus is that Yunick and others back in the day were exploiting loopholes and blank areas in the rule book explicitly, forcing NASCAR to outlaw what they had created, rather than trying to hide it. A modern day example is Jeff Gordon's T-Rex. It was perfectly legal, but stretched the rules to the extent that Nascar had to elaborate with new rules. Knaus, however, is actively trying to defy the rules, not innovate around them, with the attitude that the rules don't apply to him, then gets mad when he gets caught. 66. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.12.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Brad gets his first official pole of the season. Here's to hoping this is the start of them getting out of the slump they were in and get back to where they were running last year, as well as the beginning of this year. I definitely think something fishy has been going on with the #48 car if it had trouble going through tech, then failed post-qualifying inspection. But this isn't the first time a HMS car has been penalized in this manner, as both Gordon and Johnson had points taken away and had to start at the back of the field at Sonoma in 2007. 67. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.12.2013 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Ever since 1992, it has been made clear to the mechanics "you will stay within the rules" while in the past it was a fun cat and mouse game between the mechanics and inspectors. Now, with other organizations trying to stay within the rules 98% of the time, but HMS using the rulebook as toilet paper, it puts a cloud over all their accomplishments, especially the 48 team. But the 24 team isn't totally innocent by any means. From the hubs in '95 that were only discovered cause Jeff lost a wheel, to the T Rex "the car is legal, but don't bring it back" stuff we are supposed to believe (why weren't they penalized for "breaking the spirit of the rules"?) to the carbeurator in 2000 that cost Dale a win and a million bucks, to being part of 2007 SonomaGate (the two best cars all year were very illegal for that race, I'm sure it was a coincidence), just because their list over 21 years is small compared to Chad's, don't sleep on the 24. Plus there was the suspension in '97 of TLab's crew chief, the 1993 major carbeurator infraction of the #25 team that had NASCAR threatening to suspend the entire team for a few races, nothing accomplished at HMS can totally be trusted. 68. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.13.2013 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) "That's why I find it unusual that Junior said after his engine blew up at Michigan how he and Johnson's cars are the same. But what Junior probably forgot to mention is how his cars are always built legal, unlike Johnson." He probably also forgot to mention that they both have different driving styles that would apply differing stresses on the same-built cars and engines. "Knaus, however, is actively trying to defy the rules, not innovate around them" Chad operates within the gray area just like every crew chief worth his salary. Does he sometimes push it too far? Yes, and so do many others. "just because their list over 21 years is small compared to Chad's, don't sleep on the 24." The best crew chiefs are the ones who can stretch the rulebook to its limits without going beyond it. Ray Evernham was rarely caught doing anything illegal, and he was certainly pushing the limits just as much, if not more than Knaus. That's why I think he was a far better crew chief than Knaus. 69. murb posted: 07.13.2013 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I just randomly stumbled across the 1999 Dura-Lube/K-Mart 300 at New Hampshire (Joe Nemechek's first Cup win) in its entirety on YouTube tonight. This is gonna be an awesome flashback night. 70. joey2448 posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well, from what I saw on the bottom ticker on SPEED channel, there will be NO further penalty other than them having to drop to the rear..." *extends 2 middle fingers to NASCAR* Wouldn't be the first time someone gave the double bird for a race at Loudon haha...(Will Power) 71. We need more Onion posted: 07.13.2013 - 4:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank you murb, was looking for that race for 2 years and now it finally got uploaded, without me noticing it. Now I only need the 2004 Kansas race from Joe's finest Cup moments. 72. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2013 - 5:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Smokey Yunick's cheats were usually quite ridiculous things, like the super long fuel line that got the car from the Daytona Road Course to his race shop several miles away in spite of the fuel tank being empty. "From the hubs in '95 that were only discovered cause Jeff lost a wheel, to the T Rex "the car is legal, but don't bring it back" stuff we are supposed to believe (why weren't they penalized for "breaking the spirit of the rules"?) to the carbeurator in 2000 that cost Dale a win and a million bucks, to being part of 2007 SonomaGate (the two best cars all year were very illegal for that race, I'm sure it was a coincidence), just because their list over 21 years is small compared to Chad's, don't sleep on the 24." I think that's about how many times Mark Martin was the driver in such incidents as well, but we aren't going to say "don't sleep on the Roush cars." 73. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2013 - 5:09 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Chad operates within the gray area just like every crew chief worth his salary. Does he sometimes push it too far? Yes, and so do many others." Most of the time it's blatant cheats with any crew chief, so that's not saying anything new. If you need to exploit the gray area, you are not that great of a crew chief. The best teams are the Alan Kulwicki/Paul Andrew's of the world, who take a piece of crap car and win the 1992 Winston Cup title despite being a non-factory team all within the definitively white area of the rulebook. 74. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2013 - 10:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wouldn't be the first time someone gave the double bird for a race at Loudon haha...(Will Power)" Wouldn't be the first time someone gave the double bird this season (Sebastian Saavedra at Detroit). "Chad operates within the gray area just like every crew chief worth his salary. Does he sometimes push it too far? Yes, and so do many others." That's true, but for every instance that another crew chief has pushed it too far, Knaus has done it several times. You can't really compare what he's done to any other crew chief, because Knaus has done it more than any other crew chief. 75. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2013 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, remember that having crew chiefs that pushed the rulebook has been a Hendrick Motorsports trademark since it began in 1984. Remember who that organization's first two crew chiefs were. The first two crew chiefs Hendrick Motorsports ever hired was Harry Hyde and Gary Nelson, and they pushed the rulebook as far as any crew chief in their day. Hyde did a lot of trick stuff when he was the crew chief for the #71 K&K Insurance Dodge for drivers such as Bobby Isaac, Buddy Baker, and Dave Marcis, and of course Nelson played around the edge of the rulebook so much that after he retired as a crew chief, NASCAR made him their chief inspector in 1992 to stop teams from doing the kind of things he was doing. So Hendrick's history of having crew chiefs that stretch the bounds of the rulebook goes back to the very beginning of HMS, and this is their 30th year. 76. Alex posted: 07.13.2013 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jamie McMurray's car is ugly this week. 77. AveryNH posted: 07.13.2013 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I think it's a safe bet that the modified race will certainly be more exciting than the Kyle Busch invitational that will be taking place afterwards. 78. Kenny posted: 07.13.2013 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah shit jr is 2nd fastest in final practice he's gonna win a race at this track sooner or later he runs to good hear not to :D 79. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.13.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (12) (0) 20 years ago today. 2 complete decades. A long time. So why do I still remember that horrible ache in my chest and stomach I had all day, how everything I did seemed to hurt, just like it was only 20 minutes ago? How come every time I hear one of his old interviews, I don't think "that sounds vaguely familiar, who is that?", I immediately hear that voice and think or say "that is Davey Allison". I was only nine years old when he left us, why are the memories still so clear? Because that is how special Davey was, how lucky myself and all of us were to have him a part of NASCAR for more than 6 years on the top level every week. I've spoken at length about him as a racer, but most importantly he was a great guy, and it still hurts to know we lost him at such a young age, while also feeling so good to have the wonderful memories he left us. 20 years, not forgotten one bit. God Bless you Davey, and thank you for the priceless memories. 80. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.13.2013 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Amen, DSFF. 81. murb posted: 07.13.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Modified race rules so far. We NEED more of these races televised. 82. Chives5150 posted: 07.13.2013 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Modified races are always balls to the wall! 83. AveryNH posted: 07.13.2013 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fox sports1 will cover Bristol, Loudon again, and the finale down in Thompson which is always a blast and quite the show. Modifieds are always one of the highlights of the New Hampshire weekend for me. This battle for the lead tho is something else. Go Teddy!! 84. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2013 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This Modified race is just fantastic. Anyone who's not watching it, turn it on RIGHT NOW. 85. murb posted: 07.13.2013 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Now I only need the 2004 Kansas race from Joe's finest Cup moments." This guy KingCuervo88 JUST uploaded it this morning. No joke. He must have read your comment or something, lol 86. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2013 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) KingCuervo uploads a lot of races from that time period (2002-2006). Next to Buggy1Boy and racermac1988, he's the best of the old race uploaders. 87. murb posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jack Roush is apparently interested in bringing in Ryan Newman to drive a (assumingly) revitalized 6 car next year if sponsorship can be found. So it looks like the Trevor Bayne Shaft Job may be continuing. Speaking of Newman, he's now in contention to win this Modified race. It should get really good. 88. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the people talking about Stewart Haas using Bud beer at Dover it had nothing to do with the 2014 deal. Dover International Speedway (owned by DMG) has had a deal with a local Budweiser distributor and has for years. Just look last year and you'll see Jimmie Johnson and company spraying Bud in victory lane at Dover. I don't think Keselowski did in the fall race victory lane for obvious reasons. 89. The Long Shot posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Big restart wreck in the Modified race. Red flag is out. 90. AveryNH posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Newman!! 91. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You won't see this in Sprint Cup. 92. murb posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just epic stuff going on right now with the Mods. 93. murb posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Now THAT was a race. Congrats to Doug Coby on picking up that win. Watching the same 5 or 6 guys battle for the whole race like that is just awesome. Ryan Preece needs a development deal with a Cup team. Hopefully he can have another good run in the NNS race later today. Also, Ralph Sheheen should be calling Cup races. He's an excellent play by play man. 94. DB1995 posted: 07.13.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did anyone else think these announcers and the whole race coverage was way better than what we have for cup races? 95. 18fan posted: 07.13.2013 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Sheheen did a good job in 2009 for TNT when he replaced Bill Weber after Weber was suspended, but TNT chose to use Adam Alexander starting in 2010 instead and moved Sheheen back to the pits. 96. NadeauFan91 posted: 07.13.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright Shepard! Never thought I'd see him back in Cup again, but here he is! Hopefully he can run the full distance. 97. cjs3872 posted: 07.13.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Murb, a big reason Roush might be looking at Newman goes back to what he lost when he lost Matt Kenseth, and that is the ability to set cars up. Now Newman is nowhere near Kenseth or Rusty Wallace in that regard, but he's better than any driver Roush currently has in that regard. Newman's engineering background was largely what caught Roger Penske's eye, and apparently has caught Roush's eye. Roush's cars are lacking in both the Nationwide and Cup Series because of he doesn't have a driver capable of setting the cars up for the very first time, and he realizes what he lost when he lost Kenseth, so what he may be looking for is a driver with chassis or engineering knowhow, and Newman brings the latter. Other then the Cup races his teams have won, Roush's cars have not been up front hardly at all this season in either the Cup Series or the Nationwide Series, and that's because the cars are set up poorly across the board. For instance, Carl Edwards has led just 213 laps this season, and 122 of those came at Phoenix, when he won, and Greg Biffle has led just 87 laps this season, and 48 of those leading laps came in his win at Michigan. That means that both Edwards and Biffle have more than half their laps led total for this year in the one race each of them have won. That also means that Roush's two big guns have led a total of 300 laps in the first half of the season. All this adds up to the fact that Roush's cars are not set up that well because they don't have a driver capable of helping set it up like they've had in Mark Martin, Jeff Burton, and Matt Kenseth throughout their entire history. That's why Roush is looking at Ryan Newman, because he may give them the expertise in that department that they've lacked this year, though his expertise is more in the engineering side of it than the chassis side. I don't think Roush wants to part with Trevor Bayne any more than he wanted to part with David Ragan a couple of years ago, but he may be forced to due to sponsorship issues, but I also think he has his entire organization in mind in terms of hiring Newman, because that would aid his entire organization from the input he can provide that none of his current drivers can provide. Plus, we may see Trevor in the #9 car if Roush lets him go, because he's just the kind of driver that Richard Petty has always liked if you go back to the drivers he's had after he retired. 98. murb posted: 07.13.2013 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Murb, a big reason Roush might be looking at Newman goes back to what he lost when he lost Matt Kenseth, and that is the ability to set cars up." Yeah, I agree with that. As much as we give Newman hell for trying to act smarter than he really is on camera, he always has been pretty good with setups and stuff from what I've been able to tell. I wouldn't be totally opposed to seeing Newman in the 6 car. I just hope Trevor is able to get the 9 car or some other ride if it does happen. 99. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.13.2013 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "a big reason Roush might be looking at Newman goes back to what he lost when he lost Matt Kenseth, and that is the ability to set cars up" Well, what Newman THINKS he knows about setting cars up. Don't be fooled by his Bodine-itis. 100. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 07.13.2013 - 11:25 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) I bet all of you that during the race tomorrow, Johnson won't make his way through the pack that well and the leaders will eventually catch him. Something tells me that either before he gets lapped -- or just gets lapped -- NASCAR will throw a caution -- and it will be for debris, of course (and they will not show it). Therefore, Johnson will stay on the lead lap regardless and he will go on to have a nice top-ten finish, or even win the race. Jimmie is Brian France's BFF after all. 101. AveryNH posted: 07.13.2013 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well nonetheless.. at least it'll be exciting to watch Johnson try n pick his way through the field tomorrow. I'll have a front row seat and honestly I can't wait! 102. David posted: 07.13.2013 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah! Ty has returned!!! 103. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 07.13.2013 - 11:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David -- Haha, is my return a good thing? or a bad thing? 104. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Tim Lincecum for throwing a no hitter. It took him 148 pitches, but it is cool to see somebody who has struggled lately, a former Cy Young winner and 2 time champ, do well again. 105. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Congrats to Tim Lincecum for throwing a no hitter. It took him 148 pitches, but it is cool to see somebody who has struggled lately, a former Cy Young winner and 2 time champ, do well again. " How long before the next pot arrest (given he was arrested the same week he won the Cy Young)? 106. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) We've seen it all here... rain, pit strategy, fuel, etc screw people out of the win here in recent years. How will someone get bitten this time around? 107. SlicedSmoke14 posted: 07.14.2013 - 9:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I think this is the first time Jimmie Johnson will be starting last in a Cup race. 108. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 10:26 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Marty Reid should be taking notes like his life depends on it when the green falls today. This is REAL history, what Morgan is doing, not your little lovefest with Kyle Busch beating up the little kids 109. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 10:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @107: It is. Johnson has started 42nd 4 times in his career (Indy 2005, Dover 2006, Sonoma 2007, Darlington 2009). 110. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I bet all of you that during the race tomorrow, Johnson won't make his way through the pack that well and the leaders will eventually catch him. Something tells me that either before he gets lapped -- or just gets lapped -- NASCAR will throw a caution -- and it will be for debris, of course (and they will not show it). Therefore, Johnson will stay on the lead lap regardless and he will go on to have a nice top-ten finish, or even win the race. Jimmie is Brian France's BFF after all. " You mean like at Dover? 111. jabber1990 posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "when Bill Webber was suspened in 2009" what? what happened this is news to me 112. ch posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""when Bill Webber was suspened in 2009" what? what happened this is news to me" More like fired than suspended. 113. Eric posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) jabber1990, Bill Webber in 2009 was suspended for the New Hampshire race. Bill had a loud confrontation in his hotel lobby regarding complaints about his hotel room. I don't know all the details of it. I do know that Bill Webber currently does magic tricks as an illusionist. 114. Eric posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CH, Bill was suspended, than fired. 115. Eric posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Webber never did a NASCAR race again after he suspended. TNT didn't have to chance him after the New Hampshire race, but they did decided to fire because of actions. 116. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson is having inspection issues AGAIN. 117. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bill Weber also announces for this powerboat racing show on the NBC Sports Network. 118. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:57 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) Guess who is having tech issues yet again this weekend? 2006* 2007* 2008* 2009* 2010* 2013* 119. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With Jimmie Johnson's #48 again having inspection "issues", I have to believe this is now a case of NASCAR piling on, and it makes me wonder if NASCAR's intentionally making in tough for the #48 car to even make it to the track because of how much it's dominated lately. NASCAR has a history of sending subtle messages to teams that dominate for prolonged periods of time that they don't like it. Remember the message they sent the Penske team in 2000 when they dominated qualifying? They actually took apart one of Penske's engines at the track. They don't like it when one team's dominating, and I think they're trying to send a message not only to the #48 team, but anyone else that dominates for a prolonged period of time that they don't like it. Three inspection issues with four different things on the same car on the same weekend? Somehow, I'm not sure it's the #48 team this weekend as much as it is NASCAR being determined that the #48 team has problems getting on to the track and doesn't run up front this weekend, because something certainly smells fishy to me, and that smell is NASCAR piling on the #48 team. 120. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "With Jimmie Johnson's #48 again having inspection "issues", I have to believe this is now a case of NASCAR piling on, and it makes me wonder if NASCAR's intentionally making in tough for the #48 car to even make it to the track because of how much it's dominated lately. NASCAR has a history of sending subtle messages to teams that dominate for prolonged periods of time that they don't like it. Remember the message they sent the Penske team in 2000 when they dominated qualifying? They actually took apart one of Penske's engines at the track. They don't like it when one team's dominating, and I think they're trying to send a message not only to the #48 team, but anyone else that dominates for a prolonged period of time that they don't like it." Doesn't that literally go against everything everyone has been saying about how NASCAR looks the other way on their "cheating" always because Hendrick pays them off? If y'all gonna accuse him of cheating, at least be consistent with the accusations 121. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:07 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Next thing we know, Knaus will attempt to smuggle an IndyCar onto the track disguised as a stock car, the car will have issues going through tech, NASCAR starts talking about potential penalties, then Rick Hendrick will give the car to John Darby as a present/bribe, and the team will go scot-free. 122. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Unfortunately they made it to the grid. They passed inspection. 123. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Why do I have the horrible feeling Johnson will crash Morgan Shepherd because Shepherd actually raced him instead of letting him by like Johnson would expect him to? 124. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:27 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) @123: Nah. If Shepherd raced Jimmie too hard, Jimmie would probably just spin himself out from over-driving the car, then bash for Shepherd over the radio for not giving him enough room that early in a race. 125. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "With Jimmie Johnson's #48 again having inspection "issues", I have to believe this is now a case of NASCAR piling on, and it makes me wonder if NASCAR's intentionally making in tough for the #48 car to even make it to the track because of how much it's dominated lately. NASCAR has a history of sending subtle messages to teams that dominate for prolonged periods of time that they don't like it. Remember the message they sent the Penske team in 2000 when they dominated qualifying? They actually took apart one of Penske's engines at the track. They don't like it when one team's dominating, and I think they're trying to send a message not only to the #48 team, but anyone else that dominates for a prolonged period of time that they don't like it. Three inspection issues with four different things on the same car on the same weekend? Somehow, I'm not sure it's the #48 team this weekend as much as it is NASCAR being determined that the #48 team has problems getting on to the track and doesn't run up front this weekend, because something certainly smells fishy to me, and that smell is NASCAR piling on the #48 team. " Make up your frickin' mind. Are they cheating or aren't they? Buckshot Bertha took a while to get caught, and maybe NASCAR is just finding more and more illegal parts on this car. 126. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "@123: Nah. If Shepherd raced Jimmie too hard, Jimmie would probably just spin himself out from over-driving the car, then bash for Shepherd over the radio for not giving him enough room that early in a race. " Paul, that's perfect. Leave it that way and don't change a word. 127. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Breaking: Tyson Gay is a cheater to... joining Marion Jones and Carl Lewis. 128. AveryNH posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm passing through the ticket stand currently. Very anti Jimmie crowd. We are all joking telling them to move to the way back of the line. 129. AveryNH posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of the thirty people that were just around me. Only two had the courage to speak up and say he was good for the sport. The other 28 were ripping him to shreds. It was hysterical vut I certainly respect their opinion. More poll results in a bit. 130. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hopefully Jimmie also fails post-race inspection and NASCAR just tells him to stay at home until his baby is born ;) 131. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'd rather NASCAR tells him to stay home until his first grandchild is born. 132. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:54 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) They better hammer the 48 the way they hammered the 2 and the 20 (before appeals). If not, WARRIOR!!!! 133. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That Adam Alexander birthday segment was pretty darn funny 134. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That Adam Alexander birthday segment was pretty darn funny" What Morgan Shepherd said really had me laughing. 135. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, on Friday, when they caught them with three separate violations before and then after qualifying, I thought it was because simply they were cheating, but when it happened again this morning with apparently something else, that's what led me to believe that this may be a NASCAR thing as much as a #48 team thing, because it's now gone to the overkill side, and to me, the overkill is NASCAR's doing, and they've done things like this before to teams that have dominated over a prolonged period of time. They don't like one driver dominating race after race after race, and they have been known to do underhanded things themselves to put a stop to that. And the #48 team was not the only one to have a hard time getting through inspection this morning. The #43 team also had a very hard time getting through. That also signals a red flag when a team that's usually one of the more conservative has trouble getting through inspection. Remember that in one of the other races that the #48 team had trouble passing inspection earlier this year, the #47 team also had trouble, so maybe all is not right with the inspection process itself, even after half a year. When teams like the #43 (today) and #47 (at Phoenix) teams have trouble getting through inspection, the problem may be as much with the inspection process as it is the individual teams. 136. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano in the wall for the second week in the row. 137. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hate to see that. Not terribly fond of Logano, but imagining spending an entire week working towards this, and being just one of 2 Cup tracks he's won at I'm sure they were expecting a top 5 or top 10 run, and all that is out the window 4 laps in 138. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is not good for Joey's Chase chances at all. He's fresh off a 40th place finish last week at Daytona and he's pretty much destined to get another finish lower than 35th place today. 139. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn Joey, you don't wanna make your own crew furious. And yes, Morgan stole the show on the AA segment. 140. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like it's gonna be a crashfest today 141. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another crash! Ambrose and Casey Mears involved. 142. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NHIS being just one of 2 Cup tracks he (Logano)'s won at" He is not really good here, when he won he was lapped twice because he was simply slow and won on fuel-rain gamble. 143. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Apparently Harvick thought he was in the Nationwide series again and flat out ran over Ambrose. Mears, Reutimann and Allmendinger also have to deal with the results of that idiocy 144. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Good job Kevin this race is 301 laps not 15 145. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson is already up to 25th? Ugh...I really get the feeling we're going to see him charge all the way to the front in less than 100 laps and he'll just run away with the race once he gets there. 146. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) Good job Harvick, way to make another potential enemy with no hope of accomplishing anything important in one of your best seasons yet. Hard to believe he hasn't won a championship yet, huh? 147. b4il3y posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Man ... punk move by Kevin right there. 148. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 48 had trouble with inspection again? I'm shocked. Looks like this race has potential of being a wreckfest. 149. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NHIS being just one of 2 Cup tracks he (Logano)'s won at" He is not really good here, when he won he was lapped twice because he was simply slow and won on fuel-rain gamble. In addition to that though, he has another top 5 and 3 more top 10s in his other 8 starts, and only at Pocono has he had more lead lap finishes 150. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson" -- the broadcast so far 151. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mears again, nice. Thank you vulture. I'm out. 152. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Harvick now blaming Ambrose on the radio. The replay clearly shows he turned dead right to turn the #9 car 153. b4il3y posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Let me translate Harvick's radio since its gonna be a commercial-fest: Marcos is racing me hard because we are racing. Instead of giving him some room and letting him go, I'll just take him out ...because he's just Marcos Ambrose and I'm THE KEVIN HARVICK. 154. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Got us another commercial fest today boys!! 155. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I just can't wait until they show the inevitable first "I ATE THE BONES!" commercial... 156. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson" -- the broadcast so far" TNT is just getting us ready for the Jimmie Johnson 24/7 Lovefest that is BSPN. 157. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you're Ambrose, do you try to get back out to give Harvick a thank-you? I think I would, no excuse for what he did 15 laps into the race 158. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not watching, but Harvick just reminded me why I am indifferent toward him. 159. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Hell, yeah, Morgan! 160. b4il3y posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose staying in his car... wonder what he's planning :) 161. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TS1420 - The JJ Lovefest on ESPN? Hell, it's a Jimmie Johnson lovefest on every network related to racing -- ABC, TNT, ESPN, Speed Channel, everywhere. They LOVE that man. And this constant talking about Jimmie is getting sickening. And with his luck, this whole strategy thing will fall perfectly into his hands. He'll be leading the race by Lap 100. 162. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Some people wet themselves to porn. Some people wet themselves to women. NASCAR announcers wet themselves to the name Jimmie Johnson. 163. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That should probably be "towards", right? 164. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "If you're Ambrose, do you try to get back out to give Harvick a thank-you? I think I would, no excuse for what he did 15 laps into the race" Yep, screw it. Don't have much to lose when he's sitting outside the top-20 in points and his only real chance of winning is at Watkins Glen, but he may not even be in the top-20 by Richmond anyway. If I were him, I'd say, "F*ck it. I'm gonna go put his ass in the wall". It's worth a shot. 165. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle Busch won yesterday in Nationwide competition..." Um, what competition? 166. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wasn't Jimmie Johnson actually voted NASCAR's "sexiest driver" once, or am I totally imagining that (like I HOPE I am)? 167. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate when people call Jimmie "Five-time." Not because it's a bad nickname (although it is), but because it's stupid. It wasn't a childhood nickname, and it wasn't dubbed by another driver. It has NO roll off the tongue. It's dumb, like Rowdy... 168. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe Jimmie will get to Harvick and he'll do a replay of what he did to Marcos 169. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I hope Ambrose is planning something and executes it 170. Ty (fourturns.blogspot.com) posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Some people wet themselves to porn. Some people wet themselves to women. NASCAR announcers wet themselves to the name Jimmie Johnson." That. is. hilarious. And it's sooooooo true. I really believe Larry Mac and others take Viagra before the race just so they can get it up while watching the 48 go around the track for three or four hours. 171. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder, Dale Jarrett was NASCAR's sexiest driver. 172. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wasn't Jimmie Johnson actually voted NASCAR's "sexiest driver" once, or am I totally imagining that (like I HOPE I am)?" With his unibrow that no one mentions anymore... 173. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brad Keselowski a TV star? *vomits into Donny Lia bucket* 174. b4il3y posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marcos might as well.. show Harvick he's not gonna put up with stupidity that early in the race. Hum.. as I type this I think I just saw the 9 come back on the track. 175. b4il3y posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wally knows what's up :) He might not get him right now.. but he'll get him. 176. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He's running in 22nd and is posting fast laps? *red alert* 177. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Busch Brothers running 1-2 early. How will things unravel for them? 178. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That was a pretty cheap shot by Harvick. It will be interesting to see if Ambrose pays him back. 179. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Hopefully this race goes quickly so I can do my traditional pox: "Piss off, Johnson" before I must leave for IndyCar's professional racing. 180. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Every time they start singing the praise for Shrub like that (dominated the Prelim Cup race yesterday, dominating today a whole 40 laps in), especially when they focus on his latest minor league achievements, I really would love to burst into the booth and remind them that he has the same number of top-3 series championships as Joe Nemechek and Travis Kvapil 181. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell, yeah, Morgan! Morgan is faster than Joe Nemechek right now. 182. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The NASCAR.com lap-by-lap jumps for joy because Jimmie is in... 20th. 183. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The JJ Lovefest on ESPN? Hell, it's a Jimmie Johnson lovefest on every network related to racing -- ABC, TNT, ESPN, Speed Channel, everywhere. They LOVE that man. And this constant talking about Jimmie is getting sickening. And with his luck, this whole strategy thing will fall perfectly into his hands. He'll be leading the race by Lap 100." TNT is actually the least in love with Jimmie compared to The Boogity Brothers Circus & BSPN. "I hate when people call Jimmie "Five-time." Not because it's a bad nickname (although it is), but because it's stupid. It wasn't a childhood nickname, and it wasn't dubbed by another driver. It has NO roll off the tongue. It's dumb, like Rowdy..." That's why refuse to call him "Five-Time", instead preferring to call him the more appropriate "Nap-Time". 184. jabber1990 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) GM of Bristol: "we are upplaying the feuds and drama of the past" uh, no shit 185. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""The JJ Lovefest on ESPN? Hell, it's a Jimmie Johnson lovefest on every network related to racing -- ABC, TNT, ESPN, Speed Channel, everywhere. They LOVE that man. And this constant talking about Jimmie is getting sickening. And with his luck, this whole strategy thing will fall perfectly into his hands. He'll be leading the race by Lap 100." TNT is actually the least in love with Jimmie compared to The Boogity Brothers Circus & BSPN." Doesn't say much for FOX and ESPN then... 186. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn Matt Kenseth looks fast! Up to fourth! 187. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Busch Brothers running 1-2 early. How will things unravel for them?" Kyle - TuRD Engine Kurt - Todd Berrier 188. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn! Morgan was catching Joe, but now he's having to hit the breaks and let the leaders by... 189. jabber1990 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Jimmie will win this race, I don't know if he'll pass post-race, he might not but hell get away with it oh, Chad has admitted that he cheats, "its a badge of honor when they change the rules due to you" even though Jimmie will win #6 this year, I hope he fails so that he loses confidence 190. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *brakes, not breaks 191. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch to the lead...? Not sure, because of the commercials. 192. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watching Jeff's lap times fluctuate makes me feel like he's out for a Sunday drive every week. 193. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Still plenty of time left in this race, hopefully Ambrose retaliates on Harvick for how he got dumped earlier. Busch brothers strong in the early going. 194. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh (A)TNT, of course fans don't want to see lead changes, please just go back to commercials 195. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt to the lead. 196. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Alright Kurt, this is your day to win it. Shake and bake! 197. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Kurt Busch to the lead...? Not sure, because of the commercials." ...While we were away... The mantra of TNT. 198. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Debris time... Danica's about to get lapped. 199. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank goodness for RaceView, TV coverage provides nothing. I thought The Baroness would do better today after her run at MVille 200. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle almost spun Dave Blaney out while trying to pass him. 201. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol just saw this on Twatter... As he passed Kyle for the lead, Kurt Busch threw out his middle finger and said "this ain't the Nationwide Series, kid" 202. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Morgan parked it :'( 203. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Shepherd to the garage. :( 204. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lap-by-lap: Johnson breathed! *shock-horror!* 205. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Debris caution. 206. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A caution thrown by NASCAR to help Jimmie Johnson catch up. 207. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Debris? Thank you, thank you, thank you very much! 208. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn it all to hell. 209. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Rick Hendrick: "Cut the shit and smile Chad! That caution cost me $250,000!" 210. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Funny how these debris cautions always fall at the right time to help out Johnson. 211. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I heard NASCAR warned the #52 for being too slow. That's a shame. It would be nice to see someone put Morgan in a semi-competitive car one more time just to see what he can really do 212. 83andJoe posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did I hear that right over the radio, that the debris was a wedge wrench high in turn one? Somebody's going to be getting yelled at about that... 213. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like logano is ready to come out 214. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Did I hear that right over the radio, that the debris was a wedge wrench high in turn one? Somebody's going to be getting yelled at about that... " They'll get FIRED for that. 215. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hendrick: Chad, quick, get one of your crew to throw a wrench onto the track. It'll save us some bribing money. 216. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy F*#&ing @#$%! Johnson got passed, and he didn't ask NASCAR to suspend the driver for life. 217. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So Jeff is scared of restarts? Looked fearless there. 218. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No thank you, Jamie, for not wrecking him. 219. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Advice to all: mute the race and do your own commentating 220. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Denny Hamlin is behind Joe Nemechek right now, and he's still considered a championship contender? D'ohkay. 221. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny has a *hee hee* Long Shot chance. 222. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoo! Jeff Burton is running 7th! Go Mayor! 223. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look at who's in 7th? The Loudon master himself, Jeff Burton. 224. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, Gordon doesn't figure to have the problems on restarts at Loudon that he would at other tracks because they can't go three or four wide at his expense. If they get three or four wide on Gordon, he'll just back out of it, lose the 4-7 positions, then try to get them back on the track, but they can't do that at Loudon, so he shouldn't have the problems he would have at places like Michigan, Texas, or any of the other tracks with wide racing grooves. But Loudon has a narrow groove, so they can't get three or four wide. 225. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm getting weird looks NRF, probably when the segment with Larry Mac was on just now and I was going, "It's a tire, it's a tire, it's a tire tire tire. It's a tire, it's a tire, it's a tire tire tire. It's a tire, it's a tire, it's a tire tire tire. Tiiiiiiiiiiire, now back to the race" 226. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Shep back on track 227. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Your problem, Sky Warrior, not mine. 228. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Morgan's back on track, and TNT actually talked about him! 229. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Great to see TNT give Shepherd some screen time and acknowledge his accomplishment of being oldest to start a Cup race. 230. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not the first time, not the last. If only I had a banjo to add to that though... 231. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Morgan Shepherd: NASCAR's own Chuck Norris 232. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @221: *rimshot* 233. AveryNH posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im sitting directly across from Ambrose's pit. And when he got dumped they were madder than some yellow jackets. Funny considering that's what his car resembles. I had a perfect view of it and was laughing at harvick defend himself on the scanner. 234. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The webmaster needs to ban me for 3 hours... I'm on a roll today. 235. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @221 and @232: #nonsatiricaljokesonRR 236. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson is holding up a line of cars now... 237. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie seems to have stalled out at 14th place right now. Actually now he's back to 15th, I think. 238. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Jimmie's gonna need more cautions if he wants to win this thing." - Larry Mac "We're on it." - Nascar 239. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Johnson is not making any progress right now. I predict at least one caution in the next 30 laps. 240. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Damn you murb! 241. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Jimmie's gonna need more cautions if he wants to win this thing." - Larry Mac "We're on it." - Denny Hamlin 242. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin has a flat tire. 243. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny with a right front down. Worst year ever for him. 244. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Inside Trax: capturing Jimmie Johnson's inevitable dominance from all possible angles. Caution for Hamlin's flat tire. Fantastic job of avoiding by Nemechek. 245. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I dont like Denny but his team has to do something about their setups their way to hard on right front tires 246. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny has struggled SO much this year ever since he's come back from his injuries, BoB has managed to surpass him in points! 247. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seriously, are they trying to permanently disable Denny? I know he is a pain in the ass and the JGR guys don't like him much, but take him out for a bit. Logano 3:16 says I just broke your back Gibbs 3:16 says I just ended your career 248. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bad Brad guest-starring on a TV show? I think that warrants a view from me...should be interesting. Matt Kenseth may be gone from this point on. That car is fast. 249. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon comes out of the pits in 10th due to a bunch of cars taking only two tires. It's about time for him to start backsliding through the field... 250. Mr X posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although I know the 11 team may just be an experiment for JGR at the moment but I am still in aww of just how poor a team with Darian Grubb, Denny Hamlin, and everything else that's great about JGR is running. 251. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How fortuitous. I think someone in the control tower was a little too trigger-happy, pressing the button that detonates Hamlin's right front tire too soon. 252. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought I saw JJ Yeley in 2nd, Smoke's car is playing tricks on me today 253. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Shep's done :( 254. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Schroeder, where was Jeff before he pitted? 255. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon was running in 5th. 256. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh golly gee! Another Jimmie Johnson update!... Who cares. He is a cheater. Quit glorifying him. 257. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh golly gee! Another Jimmie Johnson update!... Who cares. He is a cheater. Quit glorifying him. " If they did that, they'd have nothing to say. 258. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Legit debris. 259. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Debris 260. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What the...Real debris? 261. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Being a Harvick fan he did in fact turn Ambrose. That's obvious. People just seem to be blind what led him to doing that. Marcos came down and rubbed him, rubbed him again and then again. I agree it's early to be racing like that, but from both of them. Ambrose should have remained on the outside instead of trying to squeeze Harvick. 262. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hendrick or Knaus threw it on the track! 263. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course. BoB needs to keep that streak of finishing on the lead lap going. We have to make sure she finishes on the lead lap in every remaining race this year. 264. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Johnson gets in front of Gordon on the pit stops, and he will surely stay in front of him for the rest of the race. 265. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JJ up five spots by taking two tires, ugh. And Stenhouse took only gas and is up to top-five! Oh yeah. And Jeff Gordon took two tires but got caught up in traffic on pit road. Jeez. 266. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) btw, You just knew when Jimmie was going to start last that TNT was going to be all over him. This script was planned way before the race. TNT is awful. The only time I've really liked them is when Kyle Petty called out Jimmie a couple of weeks ago and said that he should write the restart rules. #JimmieSuckOffFest 267. Mr X posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Jeff Gordon didn't run into the back of Ricky Stenhouse Jr then it was very close on pit road. TNT didn't appear to notice. 268. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not surprised he failed inspection either. Should anyone be with who his owner and crew chief is. 269. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And Jeff Gordon took two tires but got caught up in traffic on pit road. Jeez." The Jeff Gordon Bad Break of the Race presented by KFC & Aarons? Naw. He'll get trapped a lap down during green flag pitstops when a caution comes out. 270. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Johnson gets in front of Gordon on the pit stops, and he will surely stay in front of him for the rest of the race." Jeff's already made an outside pass on Jimmie 271. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh chit! Gordon just passed Johnson! That can't happen! 272. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (13) The best porn ever would be Jimmie and Jeff taking each other out... 273. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The best porn ever would be" Shh, there are young eyes here 274. jabber1990 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "pr0n" we've seen GoDaddy.com commercials, so nothing will scare us 275. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What?!?! Jeff actually /passed/ Jimmie?!?! 276. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Burton. I don't even know what to say. Could he actually take a shot at a win today? 277. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As we've seen, no one can pass today. Kyle Busch is complaining he cannot pass in traffic, and even Jeff Burton is maintaining second place! The only guy that can seem to pass others is Matt Kenseth. That is the winning car right now, even though he is mired back in traffic. 278. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (8) I'm surprised about the Jimmie and Jeff love fest on here. How could anyone pull for these guys as lucky as they have been (Knaus is the biggest cheater in all of sports) and the fortunes they have made over the years? If they get in trouble or have bad luck I don't see how people can feel sorry for them. 279. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm looking at the NASCAR.com leaderboard and I see Kurt Busch and Jeff Burton are running 1-2. I am perfectly okay with this. 280. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I give credit where credit is due, that was a mature and productive radio exchange from Kyle. 281. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm surprised about the Jimmie and Jeff love fest on here." lol Are you serious? 282. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) (1) Shut up, Ryan W. (2) I'm surprised Hendrick or Chad didn't just go physically assault Alan Gustafson. (3) I'd love to see JB win because I hate hearing people say he's washed up. 283. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of which, I would love to see a Burton win today. 284. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie love fest? What the hell do you smoke? 285. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Are you delusional, Ryan? Since when have there been hordes of people on here saying they love Johnson? 286. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie love fest? Clearly you have been on this site for all of 5 minutes. 287. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I would be totally happy with a Kurt, Burton, or Kenseth win. I even wouldn't mind Stewart winning this one today since I missed his Dover win. 288. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam, Kurt and Kyle are not teammates. 289. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (9) I just basically said the best thing ever would be Gordon and Johnson take each other out of the race and 8 people so far disliked it... lol. Just wondering 290. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "I'm surprised about the Jimmie and Jeff love fest on here." Yeah, it's more like a love-hate relationship. We love one and hate the other. *rimshot* #nonsatiricaljokesonRR 291. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) "Shut up Ryan" Make me NRF 292. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ryan, you compared Jeff and Jimmie taking each other out to porn. PORN!! 293. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I just basically said the best thing ever would be Gordon and Johnson take each other out of the race" No, you said the best porn would be if Jeff and Jimmie took each other out. That's why people disliked your comment. 294. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan, we don't wish to see people crash. That's why we thumbs-downed that comment. Out of curiosity, what channel is the IndyCar race on later today? 295. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The next caution will come out as soon as BoB gets lapped. I just KNOW it will... 296. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) What a stupid bugger. You obviously are a dumbshit. We mostly like Jeff because of his great character, and we mostly hate Jimmie because of his lack of character. 297. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "(2) I'm surprised Hendrick or Chad didn't just go physically assault Alan Gustafson." *Adam Alexander:* /Oh my god! Cut to the 24 pit box! Rick Hendrick has got Alan Gustafson in a headlock and Chad Knaus is beating him with a wedge wrench!/ *Kyle Petty:* /That's incredible!/ *Adam Alexander:* /We'll be right back after this commercial break!/ *Commercial:* /I ATE THE BONES!!!!!/ 298. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Out of curiosity, what channel is the IndyCar race on later today?" NBC Sports. 299. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ABC, Young David 300. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Never mind David. I'm dumb. 301. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Baroness Benefit Caution 302. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh my God, I called it. See? I told you. We CAN'T have Danica finish a lap down! 303. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Out of curiosity, what channel is the IndyCar race on later today?" NBC Sports Network. Pre-race coverage is on right now. The race is going to have a standing start. 304. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah, a caution to help all the Hendrick powered cars. Is Steve Addington really calling a good strategy race for once? It sure looks like it. 305. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think NASCAR wants Danica to break Jr. and Gordon's record of 21 consecutive lead lap finishes. She's already on a streak of 5 races. 306. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That last GEICO commercial had me cracking up. 307. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's next? If Danica crashes, they red flag the race and allow her to pull out the back-up car so she can stay on the lead lap? I'm only kidding, of course, but it honestly wouldn't shock me if NASCAR DID make a bunch of new rules to benefit BoB. 308. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Damn... Johnson hasn't passed a car in the last 120 laps, yet he's gone from 17th to 5th... 309. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dash it all!! Why can't it be on plain NBC for once? The Baroness of the Backmarkers gets the Baroness Benefit Caution. In short, the BoB gets the BBC. 310. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a joke. 311. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ANOTHER debris caution. 312. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Debris again! Was Danica about to go a lap down already or does Jimmie need to work on his car some more? 313. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, ABC owns the network rights for IndyCar. But I don't understand why all the races can't be shown on network tv. They sure need the good ratings. 314. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) NASCAR Did It for the Danica, NASCAR Did it for the people. 315. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Damn... Johnson hasn't passed a car in the last 120 laps, yet he's gone from 17th to 5th..." Typical Jimmie Johnson luck. 316. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Ryan, you just made Nico mad. You don't want to see the Hulk Nico when he's mad. 317. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR Did It for the Danica, NASCAR Did it for the people. " The people? You mean the "fahns." 318. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Caution flies after Chad Knaus attempted to throw a wrench at Tony Stewart, but missed. 319. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'm just gonna say it, if Johnson and Gordon wrecked each other a la Rudd and Schrader MVille '90, I'd think that was just grand. 320. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Oh crap. Three wide with a Busch Brother. HOW THE HELL IS JIMMIE JOHNSON 3RD! 321. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) NASCAR and their announcers are wetting themselves... 322. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did he really just say "Kyle Burton Busch"? Alexander, you are outta here! 323. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BoB spins. 324. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (4) It's crazy how people tend to forget how big of an Ahole Jeff was during the mid-90's to before Jimmie taking over as top driver of HMS and now it's like he is almost a saint. NRF, Jeff is a punk and lacks a lot of character. He seems like he wants people to feel sorry for him and I can't and won't do it. At one time he was today's Jimmie. Apparently some of you were too young to remember that. Remember JG helped create the monster. Sorry if I offended anyone with porn comment. That was my way of saying Gordon and Johnson taking each other would be great. It really is hard to feel sorry for Gordon. I remember the 90's well and it seemed he got all the breaks then like Jimmie has the past few years. Both of them are big babies. 325. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BoB spun. It's time for her to talk down to someone for daring to race her hard... 326. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I like Adam Alexander personally, but after watching that Mod race yesterday, it should be Ralph Sheheen in the booth for TNT. 327. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So Ryan W., is anyone who likes Jeff a confirmed idiot in your opinion? 328. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution doesn't help out Danica this time because Danica is the caution. 329. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a terrible job of calling that set of pit stops 330. Brian France posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) OH MAH GOD DANICA SPINS QUICKLY GET HER TIRES GET HER FUEL GET HER A NEW CAR GET HER A NEW CREW CHIEF GET HER MORE TALENT GET HER ANYTHING AS LONG AS SHE CAN STILL RACE!!!!! 331. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really don't remember people saying Jeff had attitude issues, and I listened to my mother and grandfather hate on him daily for several years... they hated that he was California, but I don't recall Jeff ever having nasty comments. 332. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) At least Jeff never trashed the fans. 333. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica belongs in NASCAR the Same way that Stephanie McMahon belongs on WWF/E Television. 334. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Idiot? Never said anyone was an idiot. Just said it would be awesome if they took each other out and it would be. That would be Days of Thunder great for Hendrick. He brought it on himself if it ever happens. I don't have to like Jeff Gordon if I don't want to. I do dislike Johnson more, however. 335. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) In fact, Ryan, the greatest irony is that Jeff is one of the very most respectable drivers in the sports. 336. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Aric up to 2nd!!! 337. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch and Ryan Newman take each other out. 338. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There goes Kurt Busch's chances to win this race. Big hit for him and Newman. 339. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "David, ABC owns the network rights for IndyCar. But I don't understand why all the races can't be shown on network tv. They sure need the good ratings." Also, it seems like all the exciting races are televised on NBC Sports channel, while the "boring" ones are on ABC. They ought to pick their races better. AAAHHH!!! Newman and Kurt wrecked! 340. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And there go Kurt and Newman. 341. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth just wrecked 2 guys you do not want to wreck 342. 18fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Matt Kenseth caused that wreck. 343. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Jeffy was kind of a punk back in the day. But atleast he was respectful to the fans & had a personality. Johnson is just a soulless android that throws the middle finger at the fans every chance he gets. 344. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt didn't hit anything hard, minor damage, Ryan is done. 345. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Busch and Newman wreck. Kenseth with damage. 346. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) In all fairness to Kurt, who doesn't want to wreck Newman? 347. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I just KNEW something was going to happen to keep Kurt out of victory lane. Every single time he's ever had a car that could have won a race this year, something has happened to him. 348. Rusty posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Screw off Kenseth. 349. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt's car hasn't refired. I think he might be done. 350. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (9) (5) Ryan W., I don't know if you are new here (I think I've seen your name before), but a few of things I have learned about these comment boards in the short time I have been here: 1) Don't say anything remotely positive about Jimmie Johnson, and don't show any respect for him as a race car driver. Otherwise, you're an ignorant Jimmie Johnson fanboy who knows nothing about the sport. 2) Don't diss Jeff Gordon. He's a legend who everyone feels sorry for because the criminal owner that he drives for shafting him so his infinitely less popular driver can dominate the sport. Never mind that he'll soon be 42 and he's been in the series for 20 years, he should still be performing at the same level as he did in 1998! He is, after all, 100x the driver Johnson is. 3) Jimmie Johnson, Danica Patrick, and Michael Waltrip are the three least talented drivers in the history of the universe. 4) When Brad Keselowski whines about something, it's good for the sport and he's "telling it like it is." When anyone else whines about something, they're a spoiled brat who needs to shut up and drive. 5) Chad Knaus is Lord Voldemort. 6) If you're a new commenter, you're a troll. 351. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guess Kurt got more damage than we realized. 352. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That incident was a mirror image of the wreck that Elliott Sadler and Jason Leffler had at Phoenix in 2011. Kurt banzai'd past Kenseth and Kenseth really couldn't do anything except get into Kurt. Newman was just an innocent bystander. 353. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Time to start a better race. Go Newgarden! 354. Rusty posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (3) (5) Kenseth can jump off a cliff, he flat out takes out Kurt and has the audacity to blame him for it? At least when Kurt messed up and took out Brad at Kentucky he manned up. I hope someone sends the 20 head on to the wall 355. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I guess Matt Kenseth never does anything wrong either, since he claims that he never touched Kurt and turned him around. Wow, and now Kurt is climbing out of his car after what looks like pretty minor damage. Guess the car wouldn't re-fire. That's just his luck this season. 356. 18fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt didn't have cosmetic damage, but something went mechanically wrong with that car. 357. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hate that for Kurt though. And Newman. Kurt has obviously been one of the key guys up front in this race, and Newman had just broken into that front group. 358. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) TNT: We now interrupt our commercial to bring you another commercial. 359. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's a shame, I was hoping Kurt could finally get a win as he's been strong all season. I know Furniture Row is really an RCR satellite operation now but I still love to see that team competing. 360. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whew! Just changed the channel in time to see the start of the IndyCar race. Clean start, except for Ed Carpenter, who was starting in the back and didn't get going. They eventually got his car off track. 361. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) On the plus side, Almirola, Montoya, Labonte, and Vickers are all wildcards running in the top five right now. Since hardly anybody can pass today, maybe they can pull off great finishes as a result of not pitting under that last caution. 362. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "TNT: We now interrupt our commercial to bring you another commercial." For 2014, TNT will finally bring us "Side-by-Side" coverage.... only to show another commercial in the 2nd picture box.... 363. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, NLA, not all of us are like that. 364. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NLA, please stop generalizing everyone on here. Not everybody feels that way, and it's rather rude of you to accuse us of that. 365. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Epic save by Kahne. Stenhouse wrecks with Kvapil. 366. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, great save by Kahne, Stenhouse crash #57 on the season 367. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse and Kvapil crash. Jesus Christ, is Gordon backing up through the field or what. I have a feeling he might end up being the last car on the lead lap at the end of this race. 368. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stenhouse is starting to round into form... 369. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) BoB wrecked her boyfriend. 370. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Travis Kvapil just got stuck in the middle of a Danica/Ricky sandwich. 371. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, did I see that right? LABONTE IS RUNNING TOP FIVE?!?!?!?! 372. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And KVAPIL is mad at her. 373. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would respond to NLA lumping us all together AGAIN, but I really just don't feel like it today. I'm tired of getting into the same argument with him every week. Danica mad at Kvapil. Because he totally wasn't an innocent bystander in that deal or anything. 374. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) OH-HO! Girlfriend wrecks boyfriend. No action going on in the bedroom tonight, I see. 375. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt's going after Kenseth. Ambrose didn't earlier, but Kurt is 376. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) "NoLongerAnonymous" First get your man card back and put a credible name when posting. Secondly, Bben here a while. Huge Dale, Sr. fan. Go check his wins and close wins for complete objectiveness by me. I've probably been commenting longer than most. I've never shown Jimmie any resepct besides saying he is the top driver of HMS right now. Hard to argue that. To me Chad Knaus' cheating violations overshadow a lot of Jimmie's success. So Jeff Gordon is the most respectable driver NRF??? Phoenix last year anyone??? Him and his ego about took the lead championship contender out last year at the end of that race. 377. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, so far this race has transpired well for those guys like Tony Stewart, Kasey Kahne, Jeff Gordon (knock on wood), Martin Truex, Jr., Brad Keselowski, and Jamie McMurray, as it's already taken a bite out of three of those from 9th-17th in points, as Joey Logano, and now Kurt Busch and Ryan Newman have been involved in crashes. So there's going to be another major shift in points involving those drivers, and Stewart could actually climb as high as eighth, depending on where Greg Biffle finishes. Newman's probably out of contention for the Chase for certain, and Logano's chances have been seriously damaged, while Kurt Busch might still be able to get into a threatening position. However, Gordon's back in the high teens and 20s now due to pit strategy (what a surprise?). Seriously, how many more races can Alan Gustafson screw up before there's a change made? Gordon had a top five car, and how they're making numerous pit stops because Gordon's back around 20th place. And Danica and Stenhouse just wrecked each other again, taking Travis Kvapil with him. It looked like Danica just flat turned into Stenhouse, starting that crash. 378. Jay posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Why do things get worse for Travis every race? 379. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Labonte is 4th with 61 to go. It's the driver alright 380. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good lord these guy's are driving like idiots out there today. 381. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It looks like two of the most reckless drivers got into each other AGAIN. 382. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Larry Mac: "I think he could make it if we have another 8-10 cautions." No shit. 383. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes David, Bobby Labonte is indeed running in 4th place. Larry Mac thinks that with all these cautions, those cars that stayed out under that caution will be able to make it the distance on fuel. 384. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I bet the makeup sex will be great....*rimshot* If Kvapil was the meat in the Ricky/Danica sandwich, that makes it a threesome, right? #NonSatiricalJokesOnRR But seriously, what is with Danica and the BK cars? 385. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You KNOW that most recent accident is going to be analyzed HEAVILY by the media... 386. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Did you guys see Jimmie trying to pass Labonte, but Labonte didn't roll over for him and now he's pulling away to remain in 5th place? 387. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But seriously, what is with Danica and the BK cars?" Well, she's stuck back there every week racing with them (in a Hendrick powered car), so they're bound to make contact every once in a while. 388. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "But seriously, what is with Danica and the BK cars?" Isn't it obvious? She likes Wendy's 389. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan, Clint Bowyer was not what you'd call the lead championship contender last year. Sky Warrior, some of us (including myself) may have to rescind our statements about Bobby Labonte. Huge props to him. 390. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Did you guys see Jimmie trying to pass Labonte, but Labonte didn't roll over for him and now he's pulling away to remain in 5th place?" Yeah, and it made me so happy. 391. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not so sure The Baroness was hooked, looked to me like she just blew the corner. 392. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Come on, Burton. Rough Jimmie up like you did at Martinsville 2003. 393. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) I'm sorry if it came off as I was trying to generalize the entire site, I'm just saying I've seen all of those viewpoints expressed here in some form before. ""NoLongerAnonymous" First get your man card back and put a credible name when posting." I thought the point of a username was to differentiate posters apart rather than have everyone show up as "Anonymous," I didn't think it mattered what the name was so long as it isn't offensive. "Secondly, Bben here a while. Huge Dale, Sr. fan. Go check his wins and close wins for complete objectiveness by me. I've probably been commenting longer than most." I have the utmost respect for Dale Sr. I was never a fan of his but I certainly respected him and acknowledge he's the best driver in NASCAR history. "I've never shown Jimmie any resepct besides saying he is the top driver of HMS right now. Hard to argue that. To me Chad Knaus' cheating violations overshadow a lot of Jimmie's success." That's fair, and when I said "Chad Knaus is Lord Voldemort," that's not something I disagree with. 394. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) 1) Don't say anything remotely positive about Jimmie Johnson, and don't show any respect for him as a race car driver. Otherwise, you're an ignorant Jimmie Johnson fanboy who knows nothing about the sport. Actually a good many of us do acknowledge Jimmie Johnson as a talented driver, it's most Hendrick and Kanus that people have a problem with. 2) Don't diss Jeff Gordon. He's a legend who everyone feels sorry for because the criminal owner that he drives for shafting him so his infinitely less popular driver can dominate the sport. Never mind that he'll soon be 42 and he's been in the series for 20 years, he should still be performing at the same level as he did in 1998! He is, after all, 100x the driver Johnson is. People feel sorry for Jeff because of all the bad luck he's been having, not because he's a legend or Hendrick is supposedly shafting him in favor of JJ. 3) Jimmie Johnson, Danica Patrick, and Michael Waltrip are the three least talented drivers in the history of the universe. JJ definatly and MW have talent(I won't dispute that), the problem with BofB is the media forcing her down everyone's throats and showering attention on every little thing she does on and off the track. 4) When Brad Keselowski whines about something, it's good for the sport and he's "telling it like it is." When anyone else whines about something, they're a spoiled brat who needs to shut up and drive. Not true, he's been held account for dissing David Regan's Talladega win(which he owned up to and apologized for), complaining about the supposed lack of safety at short tracks and his other dumb comments and momments. 5) Chad Knaus is Lord Voldemort. lol 6) If you're a new commenter, you're a troll. Newcomers are always welcome, besides we already have a troll in Anthony. 395. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love this top-five (well, most of it)! 396. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or pass him cleanly and then pull away. That works too. 397. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #388 had me cracking up. 398. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Yeah, she totally blew the corner. And then tried to pick a fight with Kvapil afterward who was an innocent bystander. Classic BoB. 399. jabber1990 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But seriously, what is with Danica and the BK cars?" you have to ask? its because shes racing near them 400. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Well, Danica manned up more than Kenseth and Harvick combined have today, so there's that 401. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Bobby Labonte and Jeff Burton are battling for 5th place. What is this, 2000 all over again? 402. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good grief, did she ever let off the gas going into that corner? Kudos for admitting it, but that wasn't even close. 403. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is she taking some sort of responsibility? Hungarian commentators are laughing at her opening sentence... yes, everyone else changed the way they race LOL. 404. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Turn back the clock the old battery battle is going down, Labonte and JBurton going at it. Only thing missing is the Interstate and Exide. 405. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon spins. 406. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff Gordon spins out...of course! 407. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And there's go Jeff Gordon. 408. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Looks like I'm gonna have to temporarily join the Paul Menard Hate Club. 409. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard just ran into him there. 410. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nooooooo... 411. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Paul Menard=Ryan W.'s new hero 412. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, now Menard TOTALLY dumped him right there. 413. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon grow a spine for once in your life and bury Hendrick Motorsports. 414. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Haha 415. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) The Epitome Of Nepotism wrecks a legend. 416. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) In my opinion, this has actually been a pretty decent race so far. 417. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well LOL, when did we last seen Paul spin someone on purpose? 418. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) As soon as I saw Gordon spin, I was wondering if this would have to go on DSFF's list of Jeff Gordon unforced errors, which consists of only two at this point. But then I saw Menard got into the back of him. 419. Jay posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow the commentators are being biased today. 420. Mr X posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I was really expecting Johnson to make mince meat of Labonte and Burton, never been so happy to be wrong. Stupid mistake from Dancia, certainly the type of mistake that makes you question her talent level, especially as she took out two others. At least she admitted to it. FML. 421. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kyle Busch is going to win this race. 422. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) The Jeff Gordon Bad Break of the Week presented by Menards! 423. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) David, let me refresh your memory a little bit. Keselowski was almost taken out by Gordon last year at the end of the Phoenix race when he cowardly took out Bowyer. BradK was the championship leader not Bowyer. 424. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to say this but I'm hoping that Rick Hendrick does to Jeff Gordon what Jerry Jones did to Tom Landry (and I don't enjoy saying that) because it will finally expose Hendrick for what he truly is. 425. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) I fail to see how Menard dumping Gordon relates to Rick Hendrick. 426. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! 427. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) You know if you're Jeff Gordon and got taken out by Menard there isn't much respect left for him by hardly any of the drivers. Even I dislike Gordon and that's pretty bad. I couldn't see Dale, Sr. being taken out by Menard. btw, looks like Menard is going to have a visitor very soon. 428. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon is closing on Bower and Menard 429. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh-oh. I smell another caution coming up if that 24 car can get back up to Baby Warbucks. 430. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Has Jeff Burton finally woken up from his Charlotte 08 hangover? Seriously where in the world did this come from?? 431. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @425, in case you haven't noticed, Benjamin Lowe is the most random poster on this board. What he says doesn't have to connect with what's going on in the race. Burton and Almirola are racing hard for 4th place. 432. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burton has a car that can win the race. 433. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something must be wrong with the 48 car. Maybe they tuned it the wrong way on their last stop, because he is simply not going anywhere right now. Usually at this point in the race, Jimmie is flying to the front. 434. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That would be awesome if Jeff Burton won this race. Good grief! Brian Vickers is challenging Kyle Busch and Stewart for the lead! 435. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's go Vickers! 436. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) I wouldn't mind seeing Tony Stewart win, but I also wouldn't mind seeing Busch get up there and rough him up enough that Vickers or Burton find a way to get past both of them and win. 437. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon's right behind Menard right now. Am I sensing imminent payback? And guess who happens to be sandwiched right between them? Clint Bowyer. Deja vu? 438. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where did Vickers come from? 439. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Burton aggressive? Wow. 440. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) So, because of one bad moment in Jeff's career, he's the bogeyman? That's pretty bad considering Jeff has been around for 20 years AND there are about 20-30 more guys with more dirt on their careers than he has. 441. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers is threatening to pass Kyle. Wow. That would be a hell of an upset if he won. 442. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Vickers really needs a full time ride. It seems like wherever he runs in the 55 he does pretty well. I almost took him in my driver pool today, but passed on him for the next NH race. 443. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Jeff is bombing up the lineup this time... for once... 444. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Looks like Gordon took a higher road for revenge "I have talent so I'm gonna blow right by you and charge towards the top 10" 445. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Vickers passes Kyle Busch! 446. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Vickers to 2nd. He is a serious contender for this. 447. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One driver without a blemish on his career from a character standpoint is Bobby Labonte. I can't think of another one. Even his brother Terry had a bad moment when he wrecked Jeff Green on the straightaway at Pocono in 2003 that sent Green head-on into a dirt bank where a guardrail should have been. 448. Mr X posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not a bad save from Kyle Busch. 449. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow at Vickers! Up to 2nd! And we all laughed at Mikey saying that he would be a future Cup champ. 450. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Vickers is going for the lead! 451. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell yea buddy!!! 452. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers to the lead! 453. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers to the lead! 454. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) You just witnessed the winning pass by the future Cup champ. 455. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers is on it, and Jeff Burton isn't that far back. Things are picking up. Scratch that, Vickers to the lead. 456. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pass for the win, maybe. You know, as long as Nascar doesn't play god. 457. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh, I see, Ryan. I misunderstood your original comment. Yes, I do remember that wreck almost taking out Keselowski. 458. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was Trevor Bayne the last part-timer to win a race? 459. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Classy move by Jeff to just go by Menard. (My view point is Paul being a favorite and not really liking JG) 460. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers is going for his third career win with a third different team... 461. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NLA, yes Bayne was the last. 462. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Labonte out of gas. 463. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Labonte out of gas. 464. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Bobby runs out of gas. Tough break, but it was SO cool to see him running in the top five again. 465. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby's out of gas. What a heartbreaker 466. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn. Hate that for Labonte. 467. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution. 468. epzik8 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! 469. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NOOOOO!!!!! 470. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Was Trevor Bayne the last part-timer to win a race?" In Cup yes, Allmendinger won the Nationwide race a few weeks ago 471. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is this caution legit? 472. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FUUUUUUU! I knew they were going to throw a caution with less than five to go to mess everything up! 473. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What the? 474. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow. 475. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why? 476. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Knowing NASCAR, I knew there was a 50/50 chance of that happening. 477. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hmm, caution. This could be good, it gives Jeff Burton a shot to break what has seemed to be an impossible winless streak 478. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We can't let the cupwhacker win... 479. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Motherf**king debris caution!!!! Come the f**k on NASCAR 480. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hehe, hopefully Burton and Vickers have enough gas. 481. Mr X posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WTF! 482. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WHY IS IT THAT I CAN'T AT LEAST LISTEN TO THIS RACE?!?!?! THIS BEAUTIFUL RACE?!?! AAAAGGGHH!!!!!! Lamentation over. 483. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was for the smallest piece of debris that was out of the groove on the backstretch. 484. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And believe it or not, it was for actual debris. 485. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) What a joke, guess Vickers isn't one of their precious 'household names' 486. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm hoping that Stewart doesn't run out of gas on the restart and cost Jeff Burton a great finish. 487. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I never I'm a million years thought Vickers would win on a track less than a mile and a half. 488. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a shame... What does Nascar have against Vickers? 489. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watch there be 3 green white checkereds... 490. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Actual Debris", small piece of metal off the grove towards the apron. 491. RichardHead posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers should win this. NASCAR are trying to steal this off him to give it to Busch or something. 492. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though they showed the debris, I don't think NASCAR should've called the caution for THAT! It was out of the groove, they should have stayed green....shit. Well.....this should be interesting. 493. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) But hey, this probably gives Joe Nemechek a lead-lap finish. 494. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why did Hamlin pit? He was running 10th, now he's gonna finish 19th or around there. 495. epzik8 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm rooting for Brian Vickers or Jeff Burton. 496. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait, they're going to a G-W-C, but there were still 4 laps to go. What? 497. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Tony runs out it looks like. 498. RichardHead posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why why why why 499. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) VICKERS!! 500. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Tony runs out... ...and Vickers...WINS?! 501. RichardHead posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers is low on fuel. This GWC is STUPID 502. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Labonte's out of fuel? DARN IT!!!!! I think my comments have like one-minute delay on them. 503. RichardHead posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) This is what I mean by 'give this win to Busch' 504. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Vickers is QUITE future Cup champion potential, but I would not say he's untalented. 505. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers' first non "guy in front of me ran out of gas/I dumped the two guys in front of me" win in ten years. Awesome job by him. 506. We need more Onion posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) LOL full-time NW driver -> no NW wins this year Part timer in cup -> gets a win 507. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'm very glad to see Vickers win. That was definitely unexpected but it's good to see someone different win. While I doubt he's a "future Cup champ," he's a very underrated driver and he deserves this. 508. RichardHead posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) lol HOW???!!! JJ 6th... 509. I Love Japan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (18) Utterly disgusted. Vickers is still a joke 510. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Vickers has ran pretty well at NH, Bristol, and Martinsville in this car. Not really surprised. He was fastest in one of the practice sessions as well. 511. epzik8 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Yesssss!! I'm so happy for Brian Vickers, and Michael Waltrip. Fun fact: This is the first time a car with the number 55 has gone to victory lane in the Cup series since Bobby Hamilton won the Talladega spring race in 2001. 512. jabber1990 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Watch there be 3 green white checkereds..." can they do 4? its at the "natural" ending, and then plus 3 GWC? 513. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) How great was it to see so many drivers pull up to Vickers and congratulate him. Those are the moments that we, as true fans, live for. Congrats to Vickers on a well-deserved victory. 514. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Vickers ran out on the burnout I think. Don't especially like him because he tends to be a wrecking ball at times, but it's cool to see him win, and the power move he pulled to simply out drive the minor league babby Kyle Busch was incredible! Top 5 for Jeff Burton, Gordon rebounds for a top 10, top 20s for Ragan and Stremme, and a heartbreaker for Stewart, much like Labonte 515. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two of my favorites (Burton and Almirola) get top fives. Good day. Fun race for the most part. 516. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Hell yeah! Vickers wins, Burton and Almirola get top fives, Gordon finishes 10th, and Ragan, Gilliland, and Stremme get top 20s. As far as races at Loudon go, this was definitely the best one I've ever watched. 517. startandparkfan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great Job! 518. epzik8 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Vickers' first non "guy in front of me ran out of gas/I dumped the two guys in front of me" win in ten years." Haha, true...Brian caused Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Jimmie Johnson to crash on the final lap of the 2006 Talladega fall race when he got his first Cup win, and the only reason he won the August 2009 Michigan Cup race is because people kept running out of gas. 519. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can't wait to hear what Stewart has to say after this. 520. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awesome seeing Brian go down the frontstretch high-fiving all the fans! Looked like Earnhardt at Daytona '98... Burton, Almirola, Keselowski all get top-fives! And Gordo rallies back to 10th! 521. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Even more impressive is that Vickers came back from a pit road penalty early in the race that caused him to lose a lap. That's a hell of a comeback. 522. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awesome win for Vickers, also great runs by Burton, Almirola and Jeff Gordon coming back from his spin to finish 10th. 523. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok, I know I am the biggest Mikey basher here, but have they ever had a non Sears Point non Reut win for MWR where they didn't have to push the car to victory lane cause they are out of gas? 524. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad for Brian Vickers. 525. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the only reason he won the August 2009 Michigan Cup race is because people kept running out of gas." Well he did win the pole, lead laps at multiple points, and run in the top 10 for virtually the whole race... 526. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers definitely got that "You can't win a Cup race because you were the best car at the end" monkey off his back. I think that like Truex's victory at Sonoma, Vickers' win today just cemented his place on MWR's driver lineup for 2014. Aaron's has to be very happy with their car getting back to victory lane. 527. 1995z71 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Funny, Vickers broke the car while attempting a burnout! haha 528. 1995z71 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell Yeah, Congrats Brian Vickers! 529. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I think the Gen 6 really performs well on these short/flat tracks. Bristol was good, Martinsville was good, Phoenix had some good racing, and this was probably the best race at Loudon in about 6 or 7 years. 530. jabber1990 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brian caused Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Jimmie Johnson to crash on the final lap of the 2006 Talladega fall race when he got his first Cup win" correct me if im wrong wasn't the last 30 or so laps of that race ran in single file? funny considering how the 2006 plate package was the best we ever had and these are these worst plate races ever 531. Mr X posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stupid GWC but overall I'm okay with that result, is it just me or does every time that a normally clean driver loses his cool on another driver Jeff Gordon is that other driver. Not necessarily getting wrecked but just in general used up as well. It almost seems that way. Congrats to Vickers, this has certainly been his most legitimate victory. 532. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) NASCAR.com's "Lap by Lap" is making note of Denny Hamlin finishing 21st. Do people SERIOUSLY still believe he's going to go on a tear and make the Chase? Apparently so. You have to be quite delusional to actually believe that. 533. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Vickers for sure is probably gonna be in the 55 next year, but it will be interesting to see if Rodney Childers stays there with him now. Childers is being rumored to be going over to SHR to be Harvick's crew chief. 534. I Love Japan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (11) Vickers is awful. He is doing jack in Nationwide. This win changes nothing for him 535. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "funny considering how the 2006 plate package was the best we ever had" Not really. 536. Anonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I didn't like Vickers for the longest time, but he is winning me over. He deserves that full time ride. 537. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) On this Day Brian Vickers is the best in the world at New Hampshire Motor Speedway 538. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Brad is back in the top 10 and Gordon is only 2 points out of the top 10. I am glad to see Vickers win considering how grateful he sounded in his interview. 539. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers really is a good driver when he stays within himself. I never would have thought he would have made the Chase a few years ago to beat out Kyle at Richmond, but he did. He should be in the 55 car next year. Also, Tony has been on the short end of the stick when it comes to fuel strategy at New Hampshire over his career. 540. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...Wait a minute. I'm not entirely sure (didn't really pay attention to the race's commercials), but I don't think there were any "I ATE THE BONES!" commercials during this race. 541. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Michael Waltrip just tweeted this.... "I'm at the wrong track!!!" LOL now that is truly funny! 542. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ...I just felt a little sad realizing that in two weeks it's BSPN's turn to cover the Cup Series again. That means we're in for even more BoB hype that we haven't really had since FOX's last race of the year... 543. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Look who is two points out of the Top10 in points now. Doesn't have a win (yet) but he WILL make the playoffs. Pay no mind to cjs on this issue, that polluted air of Baltimore is affecting his brain on this issue (love ya dude). 544. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meanwhile, in Toronto, Scott Dixon is looking good to win the doubleheader. 545. riven3d posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) any bets that Jimmie Johnson will fail post-race inspection to go with everything else he has failed during inspection this weekend 546. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's nine straight top 10's for The Closer and 10 out of the last 11 races. 547. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'm extremely sad to see the TNT portion of the year over. They easily have the best coverage (with the exception of too many commercials) and announcers. Kyle Petty and Wally Dallenbach are both just great to listen to. But now we're going to have ESPN for the rest of the year, who will make sure to hype Kyle Busch, Jimmie Johnson, and Danica Patrick to no end, provide "expert analysis" from the Pit Studio, and get someone almost as annoying as Kid Rock from last year to do chase segments before each race. At least Allen Bestwick, Andy Petree, and Dale Jarrett are tolerable to listen to, otherwise we'd be completely screwed. 548. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "...and get someone almost as annoying as Kid Rock from last year to do chase segments before each race." I can already see it...BSPN hires Adam Sandler to narrate the Chase recaps for their coverage this year. 549. TS1420 posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) We just witnessed the start of Future Cup Champion Brian Vickers reign of terror! Joking aside. Congrats to Brian on his redemption win. He deserved it. Sucked to see Smoke lead so many laps and run out of fuel, but that's what happens when you try stretching the fuel mileage beyond it's limits. Of course it doesn't help Tony was burned yet again in his career by a B.S. NASCAR debris caution for a piece of something meaningless. Funny how 48 team seems to be on par with the rest of the field once their bags of tricks are taken away for a race. The only way they got into the top ten was because of timely cautions & pit strategy. The Gen 6 put on a pretty good race at New Hampshire, which has been a bore ever since the COT was introduced (kinda like it's higher banked concrete brother, Dover) I give the race a 7.5/10 550. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Tony has been on the short end of the stick when it comes to fuel strategy at New Hampshire over his career." Not in 2011. He went on to win the championship that year. "I am glad to see Vickers win considering how grateful he sounded in his interview." Vickers is just one of those guys who never gets too excited or emotional, but always seems genuinely grateful for the opportunities he's been given and the victories that he achieves. The fact that he doesn't have a big ego, despite being a NASCAR champion and a Cup driver for the better part of 10 years, is one of his best character traits. Criticize his driving ability all you want, but as far as being a person who just happens to drive race cars, Vickers is definitely one of the good guys. "Michael Waltrip just tweeted this.... "I'm at the wrong track!!!"" Haha! "I'm extremely sad to see the TNT portion of the year over. They easily have the best coverage (with the exception of too many commercials) and announcers." TNT isn't great, but when compared to the Waltrip crew on FOX and the egotistical ESPN network, they're easily the best crew that covers the Cup races. Now if only the SPEED crew could call some Nationwide and/or Cup races in the near future... 551. jabber1990 posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "BSPN hires Adam Sandler to narrate the Chase recaps for their coverage this year." no, that required ESPN to spend money on NASCAR and to give a shit about NASCAR 552. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here's a couple of historical footnotes to Brian Vickers' win. First, Vickers is the first part-time driver to win since Trevor Bayne in the 2011 Daytona 500, and just the second part-timer to win in the last 12 seasons. Secondly, it's the first win for car #55 since Phil Parsons in the 1988 Winston 500 at Talladega over Bobby Allison, Geoff Bodine, and Terry Labonte. One reason everyone seemed so happy for Brian was because of what he went through in 2010 with his heart problems, which could have killed him, and did knock him out he rest of that season, and his dreadful 2011 caused him to not have a full-time Cup ride for 2012, but he's been one of the best in the races he's run in the #55 car, so it's no surprise he should get a win. And if this doesn't certify my statement about MWR possibly being the next great team, I don't know what would. This win puts Vickers back in the All-Star Race. I do find it odd that he returns to victory lane in a part-time Cup ride before he wins in his full-tie JGR Nationwide effort. But Vickers' win, more than a triumph of racing and strategy, is one of the biggest human interest stories in the Cup Series in years. It's just sad to see that he won't be in the Brickyard 400, because he deserves to be in a race of that magnitude. And he didn't back into this one, he earned it. But Steve Addington's questionable call to keep Tony out during those late cautions (not the last one) is going to be second, third, and fourth-guessed for some time, because of the championship implications involved. Rodney Childers could make such a gamble because his team isn't racing for a championship, though it makes it so that there's a chance there could be a difference in the field between the driver's Chase and the owner's Chase, because it puts the #55 right in the hunt for a Wild Card spot for the owner's Chase, if it stays in the top 20 and is high enough to win on tie-breakers. But if Tony's #14 team misses the Chase this year, he'll look back on this race as a reason why, because it's allowed Brad Keselowski and Kasey Kahne to get back into the top 10, and even more ominously, Jeff Gordon to get to within two points of 10th in the standings. But I'd say that, even though the field of possible Chasers remains at 17 drivers, Joey Logano and Ryan Newman are probably out now, but Aric Almirola, who brought the King's #43 home fifth and Jeff Burton, who was even more impressive by finishing third (and I might want to start shovel that dirt I put on his competitive grave off of it) are back on the fringes of contention for a Chase spot. The field's still 17 drivers, but some of the players have changed. I also wonder what would happen at RPM if they got a driver in that #9 car that other drivers actually respected, because it seems like Kevin Harvick hasn't forgotten about Daytona, based on his in-car comments about Marcos Ambrose. And is it me, or does Aric Amirola seem to have his best days when Ambrose has his worst? And speaking of bad days, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. had another dreadful day, though that can be said about Roush as a whole, and is now outside the top 20 in points in a car that should be running better than it is. Maybe the talk about bringing Newman into the fold there could be about replacing Stenhouse if he doesn't improve, because he's having the worst rookie season for a driver in that kind of equipment that I can recall since Johnny Sauter in 2004, and RCR was in a deep valley back then. I think Roush is going to start applying some pressure onto Stenhouse, because I don't think he can stand a car that has contended to be so uncompetitive, and that's what got him into trouble today, because Stenhouse, as he did at Martinsville, seemed lost today. 553. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "it's the first win for car #55 since Phil Parsons in the 1988 Winston 500 at Talladega" Not quite. The late Bobby Hamilton won the caution-free race at Talladega in 2001 in the #55 car, driving for Andy Petree Racing. 554. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) " Secondly, it's the first win for car #55 since Phil Parsons in the 1988 Winston 500 at Talladega over Bobby Allison, Geoff Bodine, and Terry Labonte." The late Bobby Hamilton Sr. won at Talledega in 2001 in the #55 for Andy Petree. 555. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think Brad Keselowski was also a part-timer when he won Talladega in 2009, right? 556. Anonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WAY TO GO BRIAN!!!!! 557. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burton's car is having trouble in post-race inspection. Uh oh... 558. Ed posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey DSFF, what's the "Jeff Gordon Never Say Die Moments" count at for 2013? I'm seeing 4 (Sonoma twice, Kentucky, and now today), but I'm not 100% sure I got them all 559. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Guys, the reason that Brian Vickers was so grateful in victory lane has to do with what he's come back from. He came back from a heart condition that could, at any moment, have killed him. The only other driver I can think of n the years I've been watching he sport that ever came back from anything that serious to win a race in NASCAR's top series was Ernie Irvan, who much like Vickers did today, retuned to victory lane at Loudon in 1996. In fact, Vickers' win came 17 years to the day of Irvan's win in 1996, which also came on July 14. NASCAR needed something good to happen after all the controversy that's happened, and Brian Vickers gave NASCAR exactly that today. And DSFF, it's not Gordon that's the problem with that #24 team, it's everything around him, and as I said, he lurks very ominously just two points back, despite the poor race strategy his crew chief again came up with. If he doesn't get spun out, he probably finishes around 15th-20th, but he rallied to a top ten finish. If he's in this exact position after Michigan, it would shock me if he missed the Chase, but I think the next four races are going to be difficult for him, because all the things that cause him problems, speed and tracks with wide racing grooves that allow aggressive moves on restarts, will cause him problems. But if he's anywhere near the position he's in now after the next four races, I think he'll squeeze into the Chase field, probably without any wins. 560. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ed, you can add Fontana, Richmond, and Talladega to that list. Curiously, those were all eleventh-place finishes. 561. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I completely forgot about that 2001 spring race at Talladega when Bobby Hamliton, Sr. won in the #55 car. And if Jeff Burton's car is having trouble in post-race inspection, then I know something's fishy with the inspection process this week. When traditionally conservative teams are having problems getting through inspection, there's something wrong with the process. At least finishing sixth, Jimmie Johnson won't have to go through that unless his is the randomly selected car. 562. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just bummed really hard when I realized we now have an off week. 563. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Back to back lead lap finishes for Joe Nemechek. It's nice to see his low-budget team actually attempting to run the distance most of the time rather than routinely park it 50 laps into the race at every race but the restrictor plate races. 564. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (12) (0) Surprised there were no post race scuffles with all the bent tempers. Kurt and Ryan, Kurt and Matt, Marcos and The Vulture, Gordon and Menard. Actually I'm not surprised Gordon didn't go after Menard, he probably has no idea what he looks like, that is how unimportant Paul is. An attempted post race confrontation between Gordon and Menard would look like this: Gordon: *to his crew* Where is Paul Menard? HMS crew member: Who the hell is Paul Menard? Gordon: Sh*t. * to another crew member* Do you know where Paul Menard is at? HMS crew member #2: He died a few years ago, besides, he only raced in sports car races. Gordon: Not Paul Newman you idiot, Paul Menard, the NASCAR driver. HMS crew member #2: We have a driver named Paul Menard? Gordon: Nevermind. *gets on phone with Rick Hendrick* Hey Rick, where is Paul Menard? Rick: I don't know about Paul, but me and his Daddy are working on a Ponzi scheme together right now. Gordon: Ask him where Paul is. Rick: Ok. Wait a minute, I think the Feds bugged this place, gotta run! *hangs up phone* Gordon: F***! *sees Richard Childress* Richard, where is Paul Menard? Richard: I don't know, the only drivers of mine I keep up with nowadays are Austin and Ty. I didn't even watch this race today. I was in the hauler on YouTube the whole time watching last year's Kentucky Nationwide races. Speaking of this race and my driver's, how bad did Burton do today? Gordon: He ran Top 5 most of the race and finished there. Richard: That can't be right * walks off* Gordon: Son of a b*tch, does anybody know who Paul Menard is and where I can find him? Everyone around him: * blank stares* Gordon: The hell with it, I'm going to my million dollar Mahattan apartment, the one I earned by running great, not from trust fund money, so I can have sex with my model wife. Why am I worrying about Paul Bedard? Or is it Paul Martin? He'll, even I can't remember now. 565. Ryan W posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Don't worry, we're going back to Jimmie's house in a couple of weeks. Things will be back to normal. It was all Jimmie for 280 laps today, before Vickers stole the the ending from him. 566. RaceFanX posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Lenox Industrial Tools is replaced by Camping World as the sponsor of this race but Lenox' "extra mile" 301-mile race distance remains. 567. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that post was hilarious! The best part was Jeff talking to Rick Hendrick. 568. Quasar posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burton was so fast today and he's been much better overall since last month. But he had too much ground to make up on the last green flag run even though he did catch Kyle and Tony at the end. Lots of "quality passes" for him. 569. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Don't worry, we're going back to Jimmie's house in a couple of weeks. Things will be back to normal. It was all Jimmie for 280 laps today, before Vickers stole the the ending from him. " Right... three hours of TNT pants-wetting when in the last 200 laps he only gained spots on pit stops. Here's one for the part-timers! 570. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm hearing that MWR may hire Brian Vickers next season for, if nothing else, his low price tag. Reportedly, Aaron's and 5-hour Energy aren't paying them a lot of money to sponsor the #55 and #15 cars (Which may explain the high number of those commercials, as they could be seeking more sponsorship due to added exposure of their drivers to make up for the lack of money that Aaron's and 5-hour Energy give them.). MWR has also been looking hard at Kurt Busch and AJ Allmendinger for the #55 car, but Kurt's high price tag may be what prevents them from signing him. Ryan Newman and Regan Smith are also possibilities because of their Cup experience and fairly low price tags. The #55 car may be the most intriguing ride that's still up for grabs next season, with the #29 and #31 cars right behind in 2nd and 3rd place. 571. Youknowwho posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (5) Chad Knaus isn't me. He is a muggle that doesn't have any magical powers or have any able to speak Parseltongue like I do. Chad isn't an heir of heir of Salazar Slytherin or doesn't have an army of Death eaters either like I do. Give the muggle New14 & 88Fan a message. Stop comparing me to Chad Knaus since I am busy plotting against the Boy Who Lived and I have any time to end New14 & 88Fan silly comparison. 572. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing lacking, DSFF... Paul Menard: Who the hell is Paul Newmaenard? 573. Ed posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (6) (1) Ryan W: Don't EVER disrespect the Brickyard again by calling it Jimmie's house. Even if Jeff Gordon didn't have 4 wins there as well, it wouldn't be Jimmie's house. It's A.J.'s house, and always will be 574. Eric posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race changes how things are before the chance in terms of wins. Vickers win is like David Ragan's win. I do think Vickers is sealed a spot in the chance. 575. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was a good race and it was nice to see things play out more naturally. The only time NASCAR threw the debris cautions was for legit debris, which is the way it should be. And the result was a good race, which is not at all a coincidence. I dislike both Vickers and Waltrip and I'd rather see someone else in the #55 full time next year, but this was one of those wins I couldn't help but feel at least a bit happy for. As good as the car has been running at all kinds of tracks in the past year and a half, that team deserved a win. It was good to see Jeff Burton and Bobby Labonte run up front in the Top 5 towards the end. Jeff finished there while Bobby unfortunately ran out of gas. Hoping this is the start of Brad and the #2 team turning it around. Some of their strongest tracks are coming up (Watkins Glen and Bristol) so hopefully they can continue their strong performances there. 576. Schroeder51 posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stay tuned for the Brickyard where Johnson becomes the first driver to EVER win FIVE races at the hallowed racing grounds, cementing him as a superior driver to even A. J. Foyt! If he wins, watch BSPN say something to this effect. Meanwhile, I will be grabbing not one, but at least FIVE Donny Lia buckets if that event happens. 577. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "with the #29 and #31 cars right behind in 2nd and 3rd place." You can take the 31 off the list, because Childress has come out and said that Jeff Burton is returning. I saw an interview with him where he said his three drivers next year would be "Jeff Burton, Paul Menard, and fill in the blank". Vickers definitely deserves the 55. I would love to see someone like AJ or Regan get it too, but Vickers now has a legit win in that car. So it seems like a no brainer to me. You never know with MWR though. They sleazebag shafted Reutimann after he got TWO wins in the 00. So maybe we shouldn't be counting chickens quite yet. 578. 83andJoe posted: 07.14.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #30 sponsor should just be Lean 1, Hannaford was just the "you can get Lean 1 at" logo like they've been doing ever since they got the sponsorship (it was Winn-Dixie last week). #19 sponsor: Humphrey Smith Motorsports (just one Plinker logo on the TV panel) #32 sponsor: Federated Auto Parts (typo) #33 sponsor: Circle Sport (just the usual Little Joe's logo low on the otherwise blank quarter panel) PRN's postrace show claimed Tony Stewart had moved up to 8th in points... >I think Brad Keselowski was also a part-timer when he won Talladega in 2009, right? Yes >I just bummed really hard when I realized we now have an off week. Well, there's the Nationwide and ARCA cars at Chicago (blah) and Trucks at ELDORA (OH YEAH). 579. 83andJoe posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) Also, is it just me or has the commentary around here taken a serious turn for the worse over the last few months? It used to be good-natured grumbling and fun-poking but generally smart and highbrow, but more and more (especially above) it's been circling the drain with the kind of crap I expect from Youtube comments, with immature lulz and things taken way beyond the point of parody to the point where they're offensive and at times pushing into the outright slanderous. 580. Eric posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't what it is with the joke accounts since the All Star in May, but it is getting out of control with now with a character out out of a famous movie and book series doing a post on a racing board. When post 571 shows up as a joke post, there a problem. 581. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "When post 571 shows up as a joke post, there a problem." The problem is that I actually get the "You Know Who" joke. I have been to three, count 'em, THREE of those movies with girls I was dating at the respective times, for them. But I did get the payoff afterwards each time. Jeez, now I just feel sorry for me. Harry Potter movies are responsible for around 10% of my "hookups" over the past 10 years. "Paul Menard: Who the hell is Paul Newmaenard?" Actually, here is what I missed: Gordon: Hey Jimmie, where is Paul Menard? Jimmie: What does that have to do with Jimmie Johnson? Gordon: Why did I even bother asking you? 582. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 83andJoe, I've been getting that impression too, lately, but I think it has already hit its low point with the satire. I think that the overall intelligence level will return to where it should be, in time. 583. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Childress has come out and said that Jeff Burton is returning." He's been saying that for over a year now. From what I've heard, he's been looking for the right replacement for the #31 since Burton's disastrous 2011 season. He's doing a good job of not burying Burton on (potentially) the way out (something that Jack Roush didn't do with David Ragan), but I just don't believe Childress right now. "PRN's postrace show claimed Tony Stewart had moved up to 8th in points..." Fail. "Also, is it just me or has the commentary around here taken a serious turn for the worse over the last few months?" I feel the same way. I still comment on the pages either during the race (when I'm at home and watching the race) and after the race (sometimes just to give a little race recap), but I don't partake in the conversations during the week as often anymore because they're often either too goofy or too hurtful/insulting towards other people. 584. Baker posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am happy for Brian Vickers. I have always liked him more than a lot of the other "young guns" from the mid 2000s rookie classes. I hate it for Tony Stewart. I hate it bad. I have got myself to the point where I am content to see him finish in the Top 10 and I even told myself with less than 25 to go I would be more than happy if Busch and Vickers caught and passed him because he was having a great points day. Well that thought was bent over and railed hard when he ran out of fuel. He must run off 7 straight Top 10s now or he will miss the chase. 585. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This just made my day even better: the Royals were beaten by the Indians, 6-4. 586. Anonymous posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Way too much strategy involved in this race 587. Chives5150 posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18th - David Gilliland 19th - David Ragan 20th - David Stremme It's great to see most of the "Davids" have a good run here today. Overall, a really enjoyable race at New Hampshire for me. 588. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) DSFF if you wanted to get hooked up you should have gone to watch one of the Twilight films in the theater granted those movies were horrible but there would have been a lot of attractive girls to get hooked up to if you know what I mean LOL. 589. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Interesting numbers: Vickers wins in car #55, and he was posted at 55-1 odds to win... I'll be at the Brickyard 400 in two weeks (my first NASCAR race! Turn 1 seats) and while I'm really looking forward to it, I'm not looking forward to Jimmie winning his fifth race there. I will be booing him heavily. At least I don't have to watch BSPN make their ridiculous comparisons of JJ to guys like Foyt, Unser and Mears. 590. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stewart's still got that wildcard in his back pocket after his somewhat surprising victory at Dover earlier this year. He should be fine one way or another. Josh Wise had a shock mount break on his car, which led to him spending about 25 laps in the garage for repairs and his 35th place finish. Other than that, damn good day for the Front Row Motorsports bunch. 591. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Let me rephrase my last comment: "This made my day even better: The Indians beat the Royals, 6-4" I am really happy for Vickers, as well as Burton and Almirola on their terrific finishes. 592. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave Blaney got a nice lead lap finish as well, his first such finish on a track shorter than 2.5 miles since Richmond in April. AJ Allmendinger recovered from his early crash to finish on the lead lap in 22nd place. He spent most of the race two laps down. 593. Paul posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Here's a tweet that Jeff Gordon sent out after the race: "Thanks to Drive to End Hunger team today for fighting hard & getting 10th. Also, thanks to Paul Menard for punting me & giving me 4 new tires." He's a witty one, ain't he? 594. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Someone called it. In their write-up, the AP scumbag used Johnson starting last as an excuse to insult Morgan. 595. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Even worse, NRF, they said that Vickers's first win was in August 2006 at Talladega! 596. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Also, is it just me or has the commentary around here taken a serious turn for the worse over the last few months? It used to be good-natured grumbling and fun-poking but generally smart and highbrow, but more and more (especially above) it's been circling the drain with the kind of crap I expect from Youtube comments, with immature lulz and things taken way beyond the point of parody to the point where they're offensive and at times pushing into the outright slanderous." I REALLY don't want to rant about this for the 4,892nd time, but yes, you are right. At one point a few weeks ago all of the fake name posting and "satire" was out of hand. But lately I've noticed that we've gone back to the great discussions that we used to have on here. I think we just had some newer users or whatever that were just overly excited about how awesome this site is. Having that feeling is perfectly awesome and fine, but we just have to remember and respect that first and foremost this site is THE best kept secret in Auto Racing media and discussion. Having fun and poking fun is fine, but going overboard with it only hurts the reputation of the site. We can't let that happen. I'd like to commend all of you who make this place what it is, and the Webmaster who lets us all come on here. When I want to get away from real life for a little while, I come here. I've had a lot of fun here, and as a bonus I've learned so much about racing from people like CJS, DSFF, and Sean. This place truly is a hidden gem. 597. Baker posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why did Jeb Burton and Ryan Blaney have such bad finished in the truck race yesterday? I didn't get to watch it. Did they have trouble? They are typically never that far off on the set up. 598. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why did Jeb Burton and Ryan Blaney have such bad finished in the truck race yesterday?" They both crashed. 599. Eric posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, Jeb Burton and Ryan Blaney were in wrecks. 600. DB1995 posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, they both backes it in the wall, I forgot what happened to Burton, but German Quiroga spun Blaney 601. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb just nailed it in post #596. Explained it pretty much perfectly. 602. VoteGillilandNotDanica2014 posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Morgan Shepherd's car was owned by Bob Keselowski. Or Brian Keselowski & Paulie Harraka's cars in prior races were owned by Brian Keselowski. Either way you wanna go with it, both are true, but it's the same team. Also, DANICA TOOK OUT HER OWN BOYFRIEND! BAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! 603. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, both Jeb Burton and Ryan Blaney were involved in separate crashes in the truck Series race at Iowa last night, though Burton never really was a factor, even before his crash, and Blaney never ran higher then fifth. And joey2448, remember that here are two drivers that will be looking for their fifth Brickyard 400 victories, as not only will Jimmie Johnson be looking for win #5, but so will Jeff Gordon, and I know most hope that Gordon is the one that gets #5. Remember that his crew chief, Alan Gustafson, has finished second twice at Indy, once with Mark Martin and once with Gordon, and at times during last year's race, it looked like Gordon was a match for Johnson, and I don't think anyone will be nearly as upset if it's Gordon that gets #5 and finally gets Gustafson to victory lane there. If Gordon does get #5, that will represent a warning shot across the bow of the other competitors, because in each of the last three years he's won that race, he's scored more points than any other competitor. And besides, growing up around IMS, Gordon has more appreciation of the history of Indy than almost any of the other competitors, with the possible exception of Tony Stewart, and it would be right if he was the one that got #5 first, given that this is the 20th running and he won the first one. I'm just not sure he'll have the necessary speed to win. And there were a few posters that mentioned that mentioned that Brian Vickers' 2009 win at Michigan was a fuel mileage derby. That may be so, but Jimmie Johnson ran out of fuel trying to catch Vickers, not the other way around, so Vickers was leading in the late laps, and would likely have won anyway, even if Johnson had not run out of fuel, so I wouldn't classify that as a fuel mileage win. 604. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He's been saying that for over a year now. From what I've heard, he's been looking for the right replacement for the #31 since Burton's disastrous 2011 season. He's doing a good job of not burying Burton on (potentially) the way out (something that Jack Roush didn't do with David Ragan), but I just don't believe Childress right now." Yeah, I get what you're saying, and I probably shouldn't believe him, but I'm just taking his word for it because there's also a rumor that they might start a fourth team again if they can get some sponsorship. So it's still possible that they can bring up Austin Dillon AND sign someone like Ryan Newman or Kurt Busch without having to get rid of Burton. It's Richard Childress though, so none of us have any idea right now. He's probably too busy watching highlights of the Kentucky NNS races last year (Copyright DSFF) to be focused on business at hand right now. 605. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Gordon: Hey Jimmie, where is Paul Menard? Jimmie: What does that have to do with Jimmie Johnson? Gordon: Why did I even bother asking you?" Ok, that's it. I died laughing "This just made my day even better: the Royals were beaten by the Indians, 6-4." Too bad the Tigers still won, but other than that a good day 606. Joe Fan #87 posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see someone different win for a change. Also happy to see Joe get a lead lap finish (2nd in a row!) and it not be a plate track. Yes it took him 5 LD's to do it lol but still impressive for the NEMCO-JRR team. And he was supposedly only gonna run 80 laps today since he left Daytona with a crashed race car, but since they were high up (for them) at that time, decided to keep going. Also good runs for a lot of the underdogs here! Never thought any of my drivers were gonna get a top 25 here, let alone all 3 (Ragan and Gilly). 607. ch posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Owner Change: 52 - Bob Keselowski (Same as all of the BK Motorsports starts) 608. ch posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Changes: 7 - Tommy Baldwin Racing 19 - Humphrey Smith Racing 32 - Federated Auto Parts / Hendrickcars.com 33 - Circle Sport 36 - United Mining Equipment / Pitt Lite (Should be this for Kentucky as well) 51 - Phoenix Racing 52 - SupportMilitary.org Sponsor on the #10 is right, and should be the same for Dover, Michigan, and Kentucky. 609. ch posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By gaining 3 points today, the #52 is now ahead of the #44 in owners points. This means that if both cars attempt a race, and neither qualifies in the top 36 (they usually don't), the #52 will get the provisional. I wonder if this means the #52 will attempt some more races since they will practically be a lock as long as the #21 / #95 aren't there. So far they only attempted races that the #44 was absent at so that they would make it (except Daytona). 610. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You an Indians fan, Sky Warrior? Or were you speaking for me? 611. 83andJoe posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) >Morgan Shepherd's car was owned by Bob Keselowski. Or Brian Keselowski & Paulie Harraka's cars in prior races were owned by Brian Keselowski. Either way you wanna go with it, both are true, but it's the same team. The one nit I'd pick with the site is the way the owners are listed at times (and not just when there's a "paper owner" as when Austin Dillon is running the 33 this year) - the K-Automotive Trucks, for example, are listed under Bob Keselowski, Ron Keselowski and Kay Keselowski at various times when they were, in fact, always the same team. 612. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Also, is it just me or has the commentary around here taken a serious turn for the worse over the last few months? It used to be good-natured grumbling and fun-poking but generally smart and highbrow, but more and more (especially above) it's been circling the drain with the kind of crap I expect from Youtube comments, with immature lulz and things taken way beyond the point of parody to the point where they're offensive and at times pushing into the outright slanderous." It's those damned kids, I tell ya... In all seriousness, though, I do believe the comments are getting rather ridiculous. Even just looking back at last week's comments, I was shaking my head at how awfully out-of-place some of them were. Ranking the # of victories with Chad Little in the field is all right, but HTML Nutcase Rating? Ranking of # of Years of Karate Training? (And yes, that one was mine.) Those types of comments shouldn't be posted on here. And by the way, unless you're talking about Anthony, don't even think about comparing the commenters and commenting on this site to Youtube. Even the worst commenters on here are better than the majority of idiots on that site. "I think we just had some newer users or whatever that were just overly excited about how awesome this site is. Having that feeling is perfectly awesome and fine, but we just have to remember and respect that first and foremost this site is THE best kept secret in Auto Racing media and discussion. Having fun and poking fun is fine, but going overboard with it only hurts the reputation of the site. We can't let that happen." I think I know who you mean by "newer users". Hint: it's me. From what I've seen, ever since I joined the site, the commenting has been going downhill. Sigh, well, I'll try to tone it down as much as I can. And last of all, after reading comment #571 and not even cracking a smile (and I'm a Harry Potter fan, too), I'm now all for banning fake name posting on this site. We've shown that we can still make jokes without the fake names, so why even bother with them? 613. ch posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The one nit I'd pick with the site is the way the owners are listed at times (and not just when there's a "paper owner" as when Austin Dillon is running the 33 this year) - the K-Automotive Trucks, for example, are listed under Bob Keselowski, Ron Keselowski and Kay Keselowski at various times when they were, in fact, always the same team." I agree with the site on the 'paper owners' since it is more than just a signature. I'd definately side with you on the K-Automotive issue though. I think that a team name style, similar to RPM and SHR, owner listing would be best for them. The #52 isn't K-Automotive anymore nowadays though. 614. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, I just saw Gordon's interview on Speed Center. "I'd like to thank Paul Menard for the fresh tires." 615. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "HTML Nutcase Rating" As Maxwell Smart would say, "Sorry about that". 616. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn!!! I guess Tony ran the Kings Royal at Eldora last night, and he got flipped over by his "asshole" (Tony's words) teammate Steve Kinser. That's pretty ballsy/stupid as hell to be calling The King of Sprint Car Racing that. 617. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Baker, how do you figure that Tony Stewart has to finish in the to ten in each of the next seven races to make the Chase? He's currently only seven points out of tenth, and with a road course coming up, he could get fat (in his case, no pun intended) on that race alone, especially compared to the likes of Truex, Kahne, Gordon, and Biffle. And let's not forget that, among those around him in points, only Gordon has won on all the tracks coming up other than Stewart. For instance, Stewart has won twice at Indy. Only Gordon among the others from 8th-14th has won there, and if you extend that to 17th, add Jamie McMurray in that. At Watkins Glen, he's won more than any other NASCAR driver, five times, and with both Montoya and Marcos Ambrose out of Chase contention, I think Watkins Glen could be a feast for Tony. Tony's biggest worry among the races left before the Chase is Bristol, and if he wins at least one of the other six, it probably won't matter what he does there. But the interesting thing about Vickers' win today is that it, like David Ragan's win at Talladega, takes away a potential win from those that need it, either to get in the Chase, or for bonus points in the Chase, and that's a big help to those drivers at the top of the Wild Card standings, because it denies the others a win, and it's a big help to Jimmie Johnson and Matt Kenseth, because it takes a win and the 3 bonus points that go with it away from those trying to catch them in the wins department prior to the Chase. Obviously, a win by either Ambrose or Montoya at Watkins Glen would do exactly the same thing, take a potential win away from those that actually need it, as far as the Chase is concerned. In other words, Johnson, Kenseth, and those at the top of the Wild Card standings could become Ambrose's and Montoya's best friends, because a win for them is just like a win for Johnson, Kenseth, or those at the top of the Wild Card standings, because it prevents a driver that really needs that win from getting it. And a third win that can't be used for the Chase would only help Johnson, Kenseth, and at this time, Truex and Stewart. Trust me, there was more than just being happy for Vickers getting a well-deserved win behind some of the happiness of the other drivers. Johnson and Kenseth liked it because Vickers denied Kyle Busch a third win and the extra points that would have gone with it. Stewart, Kahne, and Truex liked it because it denied Jeff Burton a win that would have put him in a position to steal a Wild Card spot, as well as help Brad Keselowski if he had gotten the win for the same reason. There were tangible reasons why a number of competitors were happy that Brian Vickers won. The win by Vickers today is like a win for them because it denies other competitors a win they would need to either get into the Chase or improve their Chase positioning. 618. startandparkfan posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Eldora should be an amazing race! 619. Sky Warrior posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You an Indians fan, Sky Warrior? Or were you speaking for me?" Huge one. I live about an hour and a half from downtown Cleveland. Not very practical for NASCAR purposes though 620. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Also, thanks to Paul Menard for punting me & giving me 4 new tires." Here are their numbers in their first 238 races in the Cup Series Paul Menard Championships: 0 Wins: 1 Top 5s: 7 Laps led: 169 Jeff Gordon Championships: 3 Wins: 45 Top 5s: 109 Laps Led: 9697 I hate it when bums rough up legends. I hated it at Pocono 2000, I hated it at the first Pocono last year, and I don't like it now. 621. The Long Shot posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This upcoming weekend is going to be a rather boring one for race fans. Only Nationwide and ARCA are actually running races. 622. AveryNH posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (4) (2) Alright guys, just got home in record time from the track. I was trying to post live updates during the race but apparently Sprint owns the network surrounding the track and it lagged horribly. Nonetheless, today was easily one of the best races I've ever seen in person. My view, just to the right of the starters stand, eight rows up, was unbelievable. I had my fanview up and running and heard a lot of uncensored chatter that gave me a good chuckle. A few notes about the wrecks and debris cautions. 1. I lost a lot of respect for what Matt Kenseth pulled today. He dumped the guy in the best car all day with over a hundred laps left. And what was better was him denying it on the radio. Meanwhile poor Kurt (never thought I'd say that ever) is screaming on his radio for a "F**KING PUSH" from the conner workers. 2. RCR drivers 27 and 29. I already shared my opinion on Harvick, but Menard really just punched the throttle and cut Jeff no slack. It put the 24 in a hole he struggled to climb out of. 3. Danica and Ricky sitting in a tree W-R-E-C-K-ING. Danica flat blew the corner and poor Travis paid the price and was pissed on the radio. *sidenote Danica was ripped at A.J. when he tapped her and sent he Chevy around early. Radio sweethart material there. 4. The Debris yellows were for primarily legit. Only one did I not see a single truck go out to pick anything up. All Nascar did was send the sweepers out. Now onto the finish. To be completely honest I was pulling so hard for Burton and Labonte there at the end., I knew bobby was gonna make it and when he pitted I sighedand switched my focus to Jeff. Then I saw the ground Vickers was Making. during the second to last yellow I tapped my mom on her burnt shoulder and shouted " watch the 31 and 55 they're the fastest two out there." Sure enough Brian wasted no time and methodically picked off Kyle, (who absolutely went against what DSFF said earlier and tee-ed off on how F-ing shitty his car turned into and why they weren't going to win.) and eventually Tony. When Brian took the lead I went bizurk! I screamed and waved. When the yellow came out I flipped out, thinking Nascar ruined this race. I had no clue Tony was low on fuel. When the restart happened the 55 and 14 were wheel to wheel. and the next time by Tony was coasting so I thought he cut a tire. Anyways Brian won and ran out of gas right in front of me. I watched him climb out and saluted him. His crew came over to help push and it was just a sight to see. The joy on his face. He deserved it. That's what made this race great for me. The action was intense, It had a mix of yellow fever and long green runs, and someone who will actually cherish and remember this win won!! as opposed to setting another trophy up on his mantle, blasting his non supporters and tearing down those who did him wrong. *ehhem Jimmie Johnson* Which leads me to my last point. My unscientific poll of Jimmie Johnson: Good or bad? Love or Hate? Not surprisingly a vast amount of people love to loath him. I sat behind two of his 'supporters' today. I use the apostrophe's on supporters because when I asked why they like him they said "Cuz he always wins. He's the best!" Valid reasoning. Two other supporters I ran into while buying my program said they've been J.J. fans since 01 which was refreshing. They mentioned how the love that people hate him and think he just uses the hate for motivation. Supurb reasoning there. The majority of the others hated him because he wins too much. some hate him because of Kanus or Hendrick cheating or because he's Gordon's mutant offspring. The reasons varied but they mostly thought he was a generic whiner who set the sport back, not just because of his personality, but his excessive winning ways. The overwhelming amount of Brad, Jr. and Kyle fans had me mildly skeptical, but hell they're race fans like me, just a little more drunk. So those are my thoughts, sorry about the length of it. I'll end it now to put some aloe vera on my lobster red burns. I'll be tan till winter!!! 623. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "and with a road course coming up, he could get fat (in his case, no pun intended)" *rimshot* #nonsatiricaljokesonRR That is easily the funniest thing I have ever seen cjs post. Hands down. I cracked up big-time when I read that. 624. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Danica and Ricky sitting in a tree W-R-E-C-K-ING." This is the funniest thing ever, ever, ever. Glad you had fun at the race Avery. Watching it on TV, to me it sure seemed like the best Loudon race in years. 625. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sky Warrior, that's great to hear that there is a fellow Tribe fan on here. Don't ask why a Kansan is a fan of an Ohio team, though. All I will say is that the Royals' home stadium is actually in the Missouri part of Kansas City, so I'm not obligated to pull for them. 626. cjs3872 posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually AveryNH, Paul Menard did Jeff Gordon a favor by spinning him out like that, because Gordon hit nothing, got four new tires, and advanced the field to finish 10th. Had that not happened, Gordon would have finished about 15th-20th with a car that ran in the top five for the first half of the race due to still another butchered race by Alan Gustafson. But by having to pit because of his spin, Gordon had fresher tires, which along with some guys running out of fuel, resulted in him finishing 10th. And by the way, this race showed that, under the right circumstances, Jeff Burton and Bobby Labonte still have it, as both ran in the top five in the last part of the race, with Labonte fading back only because he had to save fuel, and still ran out, which is odd because for those that remember 15 years ago, there was nobody better at saving fuel than Bobby Labonte back then. And David, it was only funny because it referred to Tony Stewart an getting fat at a certain track, which is why I said, "in his case, no pun intended", because if you look at the drivers battling for a Chase position, there's nobody with a bigger advantage at any one track than the advantage that Tony Stewart has at Watkins Glen over the others battling for a Chase spot. But right now, if he doesn't win that race, there isn't anyone he would prefer to win that race more than Juan Montoya or Marcos Ambrose, because that wouldn't hurt him one bit, since neither are even in the top 20 in points, much less in a position to challenge their current points position. That's why Brian Vickers' win was good news for him, as well as Martin Truex, Jr., Kasey Kahne, Jimmie Johnson, and Matt Kenseth, because it keeps others that could threaten their position from getting a win. If they couldn't win, they would want a driver like Vickers to win because it doesn't hurt them, but it does adversely affect drivers such as Kyle Busch, Jeff Burton, and others that need a win to help their position. Vickers' win took potential bonus points away from Kyle Busch, while keeping Burton from getting a win that would have put him firmly in Wild Card contention. 627. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.14.2013 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Also, thanks to Paul Menard for punting me & giving me 4 new tires." HAHA! I like it when drivers give that little bit of witty humor in their interviews (reminds me of Bowyer last year at Richmond saying, "Thank you JPM for wrecking me and winning me the race"). Glad to see that incident only ended up helping Jeff, as I thought that was uncalled for. Good to see Aric Almirola and the #43 come home with a Top 5. 628. Baker posted: 07.14.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Damn!!! I guess Tony ran the Kings Royal at Eldora last night, and he got flipped over by his "asshole" (Tony's words) teammate Steve Kinser. That's pretty ballsy/stupid as hell to be calling The King of Sprint Car Racing that." I follow WoO much much closer than NASCAR and always have. I am also a huge fan of Steve Kinser, but Tony is right. Steve Kinser and Sammy Swindell have always been the 2 biggest assholes in the series...at least on track toward other competitors. Off the track both have been nothing but stand up toward fans anytime I have seen them or spoken to them. Like I said I am a Steve Kinser fan, but he is an always has been a borderline dirty driver. 629. Baker posted: 07.14.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If you twisted my arm and forced me to cheer for a team in Baseball I would also be an Indian's fan being from north central Ohio. I have just never been able to get into baseball or basketball. I am 100% football and racing. 630. joey2448 posted: 07.14.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Also, thanks to Paul Menard for punting me & giving me 4 new tires." I hate to say it, but if Jimmie had tweeted that, many of you would probably be getting on his case about how arrogant he is and how he has an entitlement attitude and how he is disrespectful to his fans. And cjs3872, I know that Jimmie and Jeff are both 4-time winners at Indianapolis, I just mentioned that I'm gonna hate watching Jimmie get his 5th win there because I don't believe Jeff has the speed to do it (as you always point out). I expect that the 48 team will be bringing the car that dominated Pocono, although now that the team was caught with a few infractions at Loudon this weekend, maybe their Pocono car will be less dominant because they'll be forced to make changes during inspection at Indy. I can certainly hope so. 631. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Joey, you'd have a point except for one thing: he didn't mention the fans at all in that tweet. 632. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.14.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) If NASCAR could just have races like this as their typical race, I think a lot of people would start watching again. It didn't have an ungodly number of lead changes or some huge crash, it was just good solid racing. 633. Baker posted: 07.14.2013 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "If NASCAR could just have races like this as their typical race, I think a lot of people would start watching again. It didn't have an ungodly number of lead changes or some huge crash, it was just good solid racing." AND... The dickbag duo didn't win. 634. murb posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're probably right then, Baker. I admittedly don't follow WoO other than the highlights I see on Speed Center or the internet (if they would start televising more, that would totally change). From what I heard and read Kinser totally ran Stewart over in that deal. So I can't blame Tony for being pissed about getting wrecked, but at the same time it just seems pretty bad for team morale to be harshly mouthing off about him like that. 635. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) More statistical fun at Menard's expense: Paul Menard career Starts: 238 Wins: 1 Top 5: 7 Laps Led: 169 Dale Earnhardt first 9 races of 1987 Starts: 9 Wins: 6 Top 5: 8 Laps Led: 1624 --------------------------------------------------- Paul Menard career Starts: 238 Wins: 1 Finishes outside the Top 2: 236 Laps Led: 169 Richard Petty 1975 World 600 - 1975 Fall North Wilkesboro Starts: 11 Wins: 5 Finishes outside the Top 2: ZERO Laps Led: 1054 -------------------------------------------------------- Paul Menard career Starts: 238 Wins: 1 Top 5: 7 Laps Led: 169 Jeff Gordon 1998 Spring Michigan - Fire delayed 1998 Firecracker 400 Starts: 17 Wins: 8 Top 5: 17 Laps Led: 918 636. ch posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor changes: 7 - Tommy Baldwin Racing Blank black car this weekend. SANY only has a handful (2-3) of races left, so it looks like a blank #7 will be the usual from here on out. 19 - Humphrey Smith Racing Team's official name, same as all year. 30 - Lean 1 / Hannaford Hannaford had placement on hood, sides, and tv panel. When Lean 1 subleases their sponsorship to marketing partners, it should be included as it has all year. 637. David posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Richard Petty 1975 World 600 - 1975 Fall North Wilkesboro Starts: 11 Wins: 5 Finishes outside the Top 2: ZERO Laps Led: 1054" I have previously proclaimed this run "The Richard Petty Modern Era Eleven Race Run of Incredible and Inhuman Proportions", and it is the main reason why I consider Petty's 1975 title run to be one of his three "soul-crushing" championships (the other ones being 1967 and 1971). Not even Earnhardt duplicated off that feat (although with Childress as his owner, he never had much of a chance). 638. 18fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Green-White-Checkered did not hurt Tony Stewart all that much. He ran out on the backstretch on lap 301, which would've been the final lap of the scheduled distance. Factoring in the 3 caution laps, he probably would've run out with a couple laps to go and finished around the same position. Kyle Busch surpassed the 1000 laps led mark for the 6th year in a row. He's led over 1000 laps every year he's been with JGR and broke a tie with Jimmie Johnson for the most top 5 finishes this year with 9. 639. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder what Ryan Newman will say in response to Kyle Busch's comments about him? 640. 18fan posted: 07.14.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What did Kyle say about Newman? 641. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) On the SiriusXN radio post-race Kyle was apparently ticked at Newman for wrecking Kurt(because that was sooo totally his fault)and called him among other things, "a big orge". He also said he was glad Ryan was out of a job, which is hilarious considering just two years ago everyone was wondering if shrub would still be driving the 18 car after his episode in the Texas truck race. 642. Ryan W posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ed- 573 I was using sarcasm calling it Johnson's house and how Nascar loves him. Unfortunately if he wins he has a great argument because that will give him 5 wins there. I don't like to call 2008 a win with the tire debacle, but it is what it is. Although I don't like Gordon, I'd rather see him have more wins there being that he lived in Pittsboro. 643. Ryan W posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kyle Busch has a lot of nerve to call someone an stupid idiot... Besides that look out the 39 has absolutely nothing to lose the rest of the year anyways. I don't like neither one of them, but I'd like to see Newman stomp him. 644. murb posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Just when you think Kyle starts to mature, he throws it all away again. What a dickhead. If he would go back and watch a replay, he'll see that NEWMAN WAS AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER IN THAT WRECK WITH KURT. Ridiculous. 645. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) " "The Richard Petty Modern Era Eleven Race Run of Incredible and Inhuman Proportions" " Couldn't have said it better myself. He truly is The King. Throw in that before the modern era, he had a 10 race winning streak, then 2 separate 5 race winning streaks which are tied for 2nd longest streak with Bobby Allison who also had a 5 race win streak that year, when he was hot, you were running for 2nd. 646. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:31 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I agree that Kyle's comments weren't smart. Newman has shown recently that he is going for broke with nothing to lose. I was watching Brad on RaceView and before the wreck, Ryan was running into everybody, cutting them off, then blaming them (including Brad) in his interview. Not smart at all to make unnecessary enemies, especially those with nothing to lose. Why does Kyle even care? Newman wrecked, everyone is happy. Just let it be. Now I'm all fairness, Newman is one of the most universally disliked people in the garage (I'm telling ya, he is the modern day Bodine without the talent). But sometimes you gotta let shitcanned dogs lay. 647. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you never did your Richard Petty "myth busters" post. 648. Ryan W posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle took a step forward by saying his car was good but he had a hard time driving in traffic on the radio. A year ago... wait not even a race ago I would have never thought he would have said that... And then he takes a few steps back saying that about Newman. Really the 20 and the 78 should probably be blamed for that. Newman just happened to be on the outside. I don't know if there has ever been a more exciting Cup NH race throughout the race (The Busch '92 race between Earnhardt and Nemechek was awesome). There was a lot of story lines that you normally don't see that included Harvick/Ambrose, Danica/Stenhouse, Kurt Busch/Kenseth/Newman, Menard/Gordon, Burton and the 43 in the top 5, and of course Vickers winning for the first time since '09 being a part timer and then Kyle saying what he said, except for maybe when Kurt and Jimmie went at it at the end a few years back. 649. Paul posted: 07.15.2013 - 1:14 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) A few laps before Newman and Kurt had their crash, Newman had gotten roughed up by Kyle after Kyle basically moved him out of the way. The same thing happened between Newman and Brad around the same time. I think Kyle made those remarks based on the way Newman was racing around everybody at that time, as Newman's car was slower at that time (Possibly due to pit strategy, I can't remember.) and he was pretty much in the way of other cars, but was still racing them hard. And because Newman was in the vicinity of brother Kurt (who had the best car all race) when he got turned around, Kyle probably just saw that as an opportunity to let out some of his ill feelings towards Newman. That being said, it probably wasn't very smart on Kyle's part to call Newman "the biggest stupid idiot out here" and "a big ogre" afterwards. I like that he gave out some candid comments and even hinted that he knew Newman wouldn't appreciate those remarks by saying that Newman could probably kick anybody's butt in a fight, but to say that about someone who has nothing to lose (No wins, no Chase berth, no contract, no ride for next year) and has a "take no crap from anyone" attitude probably wasn't a good thing to do. I wouldn't be surprised if Joe Gibbs gets in contact with Newman or even Tony Stewart to try and smooth things out in order to prevent his driver's mouth from costing them a race car in the upcoming weeks. Also, I have no problem with how Ryan Newman raced out there today. This is auto racing, and he was out there racing as hard as he could against faster race cars. He wasn't gonna roll over for anyone, even if it ruffled up a few feathers and contributed to his untimely crash with Kurt Busch. I can respect that. 650. James posted: 07.15.2013 - 1:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In response to Paul's post #447: I remember that race, the Pocono 500 in 2003. Jeff Green decided to block Labonte right as he pulled down to pass and it cost him. There's a pretty clear replay of it on YouTube. The second or third shot in the replay shows Green mirror driving and mimicking Terry's move down low step for step until he's finally turned. Green was never the smartest driver in the world. I'd say Terry's character is in the same standing as Bobby's. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who had anything negative to say about either one. The biggest testament to Terry is the infamous 1999 Bristol race in August, where he was clearly the fastest car but had a win stolen away, getting turned by the late Dale Sr... After the race he didn't badmouth Dale, just took his lumps and gave a smile. The Iceman. Guys like Ken Schrader were also liked by pretty much everyone. Oh and even though he didn't get the finish, it was pretty awesome seeing Bobby run Top 5 today. Breath of fresh air for sure. 651. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Vickers is scheduled to run Indy. When was the last time a driver won a race, but didn't race the next race? I thought it was Keselowski after winning Talladega in 2009, but turns out he raced Darlington the next week in a fifth Hendrick car sponsored by Go Daddy. I'm sure I could find the answer with enough research, but y'all seem like a knowledgable group so I thought I'd ask. 652. murb posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One of the more recent ones was Jamie McMurray back when he won Charlotte in 2002 I believe. The next race was Martinsville, and he couldn't fill in for Sterling in that race because I believe the Memphis Busch race got postponed to Sunday morning. I don't know if that was the last time it happened, but that is one that I remember distinctly, as I just recently watched that Martinsville race on YouTube. 653. NewJack posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @651, was Brad Keselowski in 2009. They ran at Richmond before Darlington, and he did not race at Richmond. 654. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "One of the more recent ones was Jamie McMurray back when he won Charlotte in 2002 I believe. The next race was Martinsville, and he couldn't fill in for Sterling in that race because I believe the Memphis Busch race got postponed to Sunday morning. I don't know if that was the last time it happened, but that is one that I remember distinctly, as I just recently watched that Martinsville race on YouTube." Actually it was Keselowski in 2009. I made a mistake. Richmond was the next week, not Darlington, and he didn't race that race. My bad. 655. Paul posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "When was the last time a driver won a race, but didn't race the next race? I thought it was Keselowski after winning Talladega in 2009, but turns out he raced Darlington the next week in a fifth Hendrick car sponsored by Go Daddy." Darlington wasn't the race after Talladega in 2009, Richmond was. Brad wasn't in the Richmond race one week after his Talladega victory, so he's the most recent Cup winner to not race in the succeeding race. Before that, Jamie McMurray was the most recent Cup winner to not return to the race track for the next race back in 2002 (which murb already explained). Bill Elliott almost did the same thing the following season (and almost won two in a row before missing a race), but a flat tire on the final lap at Homestead 2003 stopped that from happening, as Elliott didn't race in the 2004 Daytona 500. 656. 83andJoe posted: 07.15.2013 - 5:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >Best finish for Joe Nemechek since Talladega (spring) 2009, and best non-restrictor-plate finish since Loudon (summer) 2008. >Best non-restrictor-plate finish for David Stremme since Charlotte (fall) 2009 (tied with Bristol this spring) 657. Anthony posted: 07.15.2013 - 7:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joe Nemechek is having a solid year not running for points but as you said 83&Joe he's doing not so bad at all. Congrats to Brian Vickers on his win Congrats to Morgan Shepherd for being in this race Jeff Gordon comes back from a spin to Finish 10th Jimmie goes from 43rd to 6th. Great day yesterday. Jeff Gordon's driver rating was higher than Jimmie Johnson. I think I'll bring back alliance with Jimmie I truly understand Jeff still respects him so I'm brining back alliance with Jimmie Johnson. I got so wound up when Jimmie won the 200th race for Hendrick. But Jeff don't care if he breaks his record Jeff said it himself he don't care about records he races to win championships. Jeff Gordon will always have trust in Jimmie so I'm reunited with Jimmie. 658. cjs3872 posted: 07.15.2013 - 8:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guys, could some of Kyle Busch's comments about Ryan Newman be because the two other drivers involved in that situation were his brother Kurt and his teammate, Matt Kenseth? I don't think Kyle is about to bad mouth either one of those two drivers if he doesn't have to for obvious reasons. And let's not forget that Kenseth had some choice words for Kurt in that whole thing, saying that he wiped out Newman, though Kenseth was not an innocent bystander in that incident. However, judging by the way Kurt drove into that corner, there was going to be some contact between him and Newman, though that alone wasn't going to take them both out. When Kenseth nudged him in turn one, that's what sent Kurt spinning into Newman, and took them both out, and nearly took Kenseth out as well. But f there was one innocent victim in that incident, it would be Newman. But I think Kyle's comments were mainly in defense of his brother and teammate. 659. startandparkfan posted: 07.15.2013 - 8:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since Denny Hamlin is probably not going to make the chase this year, he should leave after Richmond to get back surgery, and be ready for 2014. Vickers or Martin would fill in for him. 660. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:01 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Vickers or Martin would fill in for him. " Remember Aaron's burst a blood vessel when Hamlin got hurt in the first place because they didn't want to let Martin or Vickers out of the races they had contracted them to run. 661. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) " 509. I Love Japan posted: 07.14.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: Up (0) Down (15) Utterly disgusted. Vickers is still a joke " For future reference, Ryan W, THIS is a troll. 662. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 10:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pay no mind to I Love Japan. He has always felt this way about Vickers. Not entirely sure why. 663. Ryan W posted: 07.15.2013 - 10:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's cool NRF, but I've been posting since '06/'07. Even had a blog on here for about a year or two a few years back. Definitely not my first rodeo. Some of you must not read or go back and read posts from previous races. I've probably made over a thousand comments. Probably working on two thousand. 664. Ryan W posted: 07.15.2013 - 10:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale at Daytona for 2001 Daytona 500 was probably my best post talking about his stats there and his success and misfortunes for that race. Speaking of that race. It's something that at the next race at Rockingham for the ones that participated in it, only two full time drivers have stayed with one team and that's Gordon and Harvick. Next year it will be just Gordon if he sticks with HMS. Last year it was three with Kenseth included until he went to JGR. 665. Scott B posted: 07.15.2013 - 11:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wonder what Ryan Newman will say in response to Kyle Busch's comments about him?" The smart thing would be to say very little, and not retaliate on track. He's now officially rideless for next season, and owners & sponsors are going to be watching his reaction. He needs to either file it away in his memory bank till next year when he's gainfully employed again, or brush it off completely as a "consider the source" deal. It's a small world. Newman was on the list of candidates to replace Logano in the #20 before it went to Kenseth. He could also be a candidate for a fourth Gibbs car next year if there was funding for it, and he could bring about half a season's worth of sponsorship with him. I don't think JGR is the most likely place for him to land next season, but it's not completely out of the question. 666. The Long Shot posted: 07.15.2013 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) According to Jayski.com, Morgan Shepherd reportedly may run some more Cup races this season. He is supposedly working on sponsorship to run the Pocono race in August, and he also apparently has "a promise" to run the Daytona 500 next year. 667. Jim Davis posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "He's now officially rideless for next season, and owners & sponsors are going to be watching his reaction." And this weeks winner, Brian Vickers, can quote chapter and verse from that book. Vickers took himself out the picture for a full time ride at any level in 2012 after his bowling ball impression at the end of the 2011 season. He is very fortunate to have seemingly recovered from that debacle. 668. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It will be nice to see Shepherd at the track more often, and hopefully he gets some chances to actually run the complete distance. I thought he was supposed to run to the finish yesterday, was there a problem with the car or did they just park it? 669. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.15.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) As for the whole Kurt/Neman/ Kenseth deal, Kurt put a slide job on Matt that I don't think he was expecting. It's not like he just knocked the crap out of him, or even drove up to hit him, Kurt slid in front of him, and Newman was doing what Newman does, trying to hold the faster cars underneath him pinched down. I'd argue that Matt was the most blameless driver in that situation. Kurt and Newman put themselves in vulnerable positions and paid the price. Especially Kurt, he had the best car, no need for such an aggressive move. He is so talented and the great runs he has had in that #78 car are a testament to that. But they can't finish, and I blame Kurt for this one. If I were a car owner with a seat open next year (RCR, FRR) I wouldn't go after Kurt or Newman. I know it is tempting with Kurt's talent and Newman's....... Whatever it is that owners seem to see in him. I'd give somebody new a chance. As for Kyle's comments, a day later, my ghast is even more flabbered. Why? He had nothing to gain and everything to lose by even mentioning Newman. Kyle is a driver who has every opportunity to go places and SHOULD be going to the land of legends based on his talent and equipment. So why is he saying things he knows will rile up the on track version of a troll? Just when we all think he is FINALLY getting it, even me praising Kyle here, he does that. Will he ever get it? 670. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.15.2013 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, you never did your Richard Petty "myth busters" post." You are right, I forgot. I'll do it this week. "The biggest testament to Terry is the infamous 1999 Bristol race in August, where he was clearly the fastest car but had a win stolen away, getting turned by the late Dale Sr... After the race he didn't badmouth Dale, just took his lumps and gave a smile. The Iceman" True, but knowing Terry would do nothing is what cost Terry that race. Dale knew he could pull that stunt and face no consequences, only the reward of victory lane. 671. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.15.2013 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Newman has one of the more interesting career progressions (or regressions?) of all time. His first 3 seasons are arguably his best, and he's trended downward ever since. He's not the guy I'd want to put in a car if all things were equal but he should get a competitive ride given that he's bringing a good amount of sponsorship. Better him than another Danica Patrick or Kevin Conway I guess. 672. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.15.2013 - 1:13 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "According to Jayski.com, Morgan Shepherd reportedly may run some more Cup races this season. He is supposedly working on sponsorship to run the Pocono race in August, and he also apparently has "a promise" to run the Daytona 500 next year." I wonder what Jimmy Spencer has to say about this, especially since he seems to think Shepherd is doing this for "publicity." I am glad to hear this, because this just shows that Shepherd still loves to race and I respect him for it. How many drivers over 65 years old can still compete in stock car's highest level of competition? Obviously not many. I bet that on Sunday, Shepherd's least concern was being the oldest driver ever to race in Cup, but instead being able to compete and have fun. I still find it hard to believe this is the same Morgan Shepherd that won at Martinsville back in 1981 driving Cliff Stewart's #5 Pontiac. To put that time period into perspective, that was ESPN's second ever NASCAR telecast when Eli Gold worked with Bob Jenkins, back when Earnhardt had one championship, back when Richard Petty had just won his seventh and final Daytona 500, and back during the third generation stock car. 673. Paul posted: 07.15.2013 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "His first 3 seasons are arguably his best, and he's trended downward ever since." Ryan Newman's PEER has been above 2.000 ("fringe title contender" ranking) over the past two seasons, and has ranked 12th and 8th in Cup PEER in 2012 and 2013 (so far), respectively. Only Brad Keselowski, Kyle Busch, Matt Kenseth, Clint Bowyer, and Jimmie Johnson have also had PEER's above 2.000 over the past 1 1/2 seasons. In fact, his boss Tony Stewart has been below the 2.000 PEER mark over that same period of time, and has literally been half as productive as Newman has been this season. The standings may not reflect this considering Newman is ranked 18th in the points, but he is having a very good season considering the state of the #39 team after most of the crew members (including the crew chief) were moved over to the #10 team during the offseason. "True, but knowing Terry would do nothing is what cost Terry that race. Dale knew he could pull that stunt and face no consequences, only the reward of victory lane." This race cemented Terry Labonte's place as perhaps the biggest gentleman in NASCAR history, as well as Dale Earnhardt's place as perhaps the biggest asshole in NASCAR history (on the race track). I know that if I had done what Dale did in that race, I wouldn't be able to look at that trophy and feel good about it, knowing I had to wreck one of my best friends in order to get it. How Terry gave a polite interview afterwards when it was clear he was mad as hell is pretty amazing, and just goes to show you how good a man Terry Labonte was, and still is. 674. jabber1990 posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) somebody posted on yahoo Answers that Penske could open up a third team and put Newman on it, but correct me if im wrong didn't he leave there on bad terms? 675. murb posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "somebody posted on yahoo Answers that Penske could open up a third team and put Newman on it, but correct me if im wrong didn't he leave there on bad terms?" No, he didn't leave on bad terms. But Penske has said that if he were to bring back a third team right now, Sam Hornish would be the driver. So Newman going back probably won't happen, at least not next year. 676. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "somebody posted on yahoo Answers that Penske could open up a third team and put Newman on it, but correct me if im wrong didn't he leave there on bad terms?" That's the way I remember it, but I have heard this rumor before. Personally, I think if Penske did expand he would give Hornish a second shot in the ride. I think the most likely scenario is that Childress expands to 4 teams with A. Dillon in the 3 or 29, Menard in the 27, Ku. Busch in the 29 or 33, and Jeff Burton in the 31. Newman then goes to the 78 for Furniture Row. I could also see them starting a second team and splitting it between Martin and T. Dillon among others. Other possibilities include Gibbs making a 4th team (possibly but not necessarily with Sadler) and Roush expanding to 4 teams with Bayne. Obviously, the best thing for Bayne would be to run the 6 car for Roush all year, but if Roush could even just get partial sponsorship for the 6, Bayne could run an entire season split between the 6 and the 21. I'm also really curious to see if and how the sale of Phoenix Racing goes. 677. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, since Waltrip likes the RP tracks I could see him opening a 4th part time team and running another driver for 10-15 races. All of the depends on sponsorship, of course. 678. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, you and I must be linked mentally. The minute I saw NLA's comment concerning Newman, I thought the exact same thing. Here are his career PEERs. 2000: -0.750 2001: 2.929 2002: 2.264 2003: 3.458 2004: 1.667 2005: 1.514 2006: 1.111 2007: 1.944 2008: 1.236 2009: 0.833 2010: 0.861 2011: 1.431 2012: 2.042 2013: 1.934 So, his best three full seasons would be 2003, 2002, and 2012, at least going by this stat. 679. Bronco posted: 07.15.2013 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well deserved win for Vickers, but still shocking that he was able to pull it off regardless. Pretty amazing that he won in only his 13th start with MWR, while Truex took 3.5 years to get his first win in the #56. Not only that, but he won a Cup race before winning a Nationwide race despite running full time there. 680. Baker posted: 07.15.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MWR is truly becoming a legit contender in the sport. Reuttiman and Vickers have victories for the team and Truex Jr. is also a very average driver with a win. Clint Bowyer has several wins with the team. I remember when they were borderline joke. The only thing that made them seem like a legit team was landing Dale Jarrett and his UPS sponsorship. The days od Reutti and McDowell are long gone and they are still on the upswing. Say what you want about Waltrip as a driver or announcer, but he is doing great things as a team owner. I would rank them ahead of RCR now and it doesn't look like long before you could say they are a better team than Roush. Penske is also having a roller coaster season, but they are still the better team. Speaking of a slowly falling apart Roush and the up and down Penske. I wonder if MWR could, in the future, consider making a jump to FORD to get out from under JGR and become the lead dog with one of the Top 3 manufactures? 681. Baker posted: 07.15.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would also say that even though Stewart-Haas has a championship that MWR has been the better overall team the last several seasons. If MWR were able to score a driver of Tony's caliber then they would have easily been able to contend for a title or two as well. 682. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.15.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know some people have already mentioned this, but I think that the Gen6 car greatly improved the racing at New Hampshire and brought back the great racing we used to see before the COT in 2007. The COT kind of made the racing seem like a 3 hour parade without much passing or action. Here's my assessment on how the Gen6 has made the overall racing compared to the Gen5 car: Daytona: worse Phoenix: same Las Vegas: much better Bristol: same (as last fall's race with the new outer groove) Fontana: much much better Martinsville: same (the Gen5 car also produced great racing there) Texas: better Kansas: same Richmond: same Talladega: same (comparing last year's Talladega plate package) Darlington: same Charlotte: a bit worse (clean air has become even more important than in recent years) Dover: same Pocono: worse (see Charlotte) Michigan: worse (see Charlotte) Sonoma: same (doesn't seem to have an effect on the overall racing on road courses) Kentucky: better (but clean air is still very important there. Also the racing could have been better since it was run in the day on a hot, slick track compared to the night races of the past) New Hampshire: much better 683. jabber1990 posted: 07.15.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) hey, speaking of MWR can somebody explain this to me I know who MWR is, but who is Diamond-Waltrip? Pastrana-Waltrip? 684. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.15.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Diamomd-Waltrip was run as a Nationwide team fielding Trevor Bayne's #99 car from 2009-mid-2010 before Travis Pastrana bought a portion of the team for 2011, forming Pastrana-Waltrip which was sponsored by Boost Mobile. Pastrana ran that car last year but when he moved to Roush, the team shut down. Now, Robby Benton owns the #99 car with Alex Bowman driving 685. 83andJoe posted: 07.15.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >How many drivers over 65 years old can still compete in stock car's highest level of competition? Obviously not many. James Hylton, for one. Shame he couldn't enter next year's Daytona 500 as his last ride (he's retiring from ARCA after this season)! >Say what you want about Waltrip as a driver or announcer, but he is doing great things as a team owner. I think that's because whatshisname Kaufmann is actually running the team, while Mikey runs his mouth. >know who MWR is, but who is Diamond-Waltrip? Diamond-Waltrip Racing was a collaboration between Mikey and Gary Bechtel (hence "Diamond" as in Diamond Ridge Motorsports) to run Nationwide Series cars starting in November 2009 (taking over MWR's former house Nationwide team). Trevor Bayne drove for the team before bolting to Roush, letting the Truexes fill out the season. After which the partnership was dissolved, the team becoming... >Pastrana-Waltrip? ...Pastrana-Waltrip Racing, in which Travis Pastrana planned to dip his toe into the NASCAR waters in 2011, with Ryan Truex running a sizeable chunk of the rest of the season. Then Pastrana got hurt and delayed his NASCARing until 2012, Truex left for Gibbs after Mikey's sponsorship snake-oil salesmanship failed his Nationwide team again, and the team closed up. It technically still existed in 2012, becoming Pastrana 199 Racing as Pastrana's Red Bull deal conflicted with Waltrip's (through Clint Bowyer) 5-Hour Energy sponsorship, but the team did nothing but give its number to RAB Racing. 686. cjs3872 posted: 07.15.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I've said that MWR may be the newest superpower in the sport for a while now, and Brian Vickers' win at Loudon only cements that. With Vickers' win, that means that two of Michael's cars have won and the other one is currently second in points, right where it finished last year, so it looks like Michael Waltrip may be the next dominant owner in the sport. and let's not forget that, at the age of 50, Michael's also one of the younger car owners, especially compared to the others who are up at the top of the standings year-in and year-out. We may ridicule Michael for his on-air antics and his less-than-stellar career as a driver, but as the last two years have shown, Michael knows exactly what he's doing when it comes to assembling talent, and it looks like MWR is going to be around for a while. The one thing he's currently missing is a superstar driver, and if he's involved in the development of Alex Bowman like I think he is, he may have that end of it covered in a few years. As I said a couple of months ago, if he keeps it up, Michael Waltrip may one day join older brother Darrell in the Hall of Fame, with Michael getting in as a car owner, assuming the Hall of Fame still exists then, because the Hall of Fame itself may be in serious trouble if it keeps losing money and patrons. 687. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.15.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah 83andJoe, James Hylton is the only other driver I could think of racing over 65. But another driver who raced at such an age is Hershel McGriff. He raced in the very first Southern 500 in 1950 and also raced in the NASCAR Suzuka race in 1996 at the age of 69. He even raced in a K&N West Race last year at the age of 84. 688. murb posted: 07.15.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think that's because whatshisname Kaufmann is actually running the team, while Mikey runs his mouth." Pretty much. Kaufmann and Ty Norris run the company day to day. Mikey is just basically the name sake and face of the company. Still though, they have made an EXCELLENT rebound from where they were five years ago. They were an absolute, total joke in 2007/2008. I think pretty much everyone on here would have laughed in your face if you would have told us five years ago that they would eventually be one of the best teams in the garage. I think CJS said it before. All they are missing is a star driver. Clint Bowyer is great to have as your secondary "Terry Labonte" type driver, and Vickers and Truex are both good drivers too, but not guys you should have as the best on your team. Since there are so many young up and comers in the lower series right now, I think a smart move for them would be to grab somebody to groom as their eventual number one guy, like how Hendrick did with Gordon and Gibbs did with Tony. Maybe Parker Kligerman or Alex Bowman, since they already have ties to Toyota and are two of the best young guys out there. 689. The Long Shot posted: 07.15.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "James Hylton, for one. Shame he couldn't enter next year's Daytona 500 as his last ride (he's retiring from ARCA after this season)!" I thought I heard something about him planning to retire after 2009, but apparently reconsidering. Even if that's false, I wouldn't guarantee that Hylton walks away right after this season. If a team wants to give him a 500 ride (and I could see someone like Joe Nemechek, Tommy Baldwin, or Brian Keselowski do that if they wanted to bring an extra car to the track), then I'm almost certain that Hylton would delay his retirement long enough to make one last attempt at the Great American Race. I'd be happy beyond words if that were to happen. 690. cjs3872 posted: 07.15.2013 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, I don't think Kligerman's an option at this time, since he's racing for Kyle Busch Motorsports, which is JGR's driver development arm, but I think that MWR does see that kind of potential in Bowman, which is why I believe they placed him in the #99 Robby Benton Motorsports Nationwide car, though if history is any indication, Bowman may end up at Roush Racing, because that's exactly where the last two drivers that Michael Waltrip tried to develop, Trevor Bayne and Travis Pastrana, have ended up. I think Waltrip can win a championship with Clint Bowyer, but I don't think this is the year that can happen, based on the dominance of the top three guys (Johnson, Kenseth, and Kyle Busch), performance-wise. 691. joey2448 posted: 07.15.2013 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've always considered Hershel McGriff as the most impressive driver when it comes to longevity. To run the first Southern 500 in 1950 (age 22)....and then run a K&N Pro Series West race last year at Sonoma at the age of 84??? Awesome. 692. Baker posted: 07.15.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I've always considered Hershel McGriff as the most impressive driver when it comes to longevity. To run the first Southern 500 in 1950 (age 22)....and then run a K&N Pro Series West race last year at Sonoma at the age of 84??? Awesome." Red Farmer is still competing in NASCAR sanctioned late model and modified races. He won a race in 2010 or 2011 somewhere in there as well. He is not just running around just to be a statistic, but he is competitive. He was 87 when he won I believe, however, his real birth date has always been a bit of a mystery. 693. Baker posted: 07.15.2013 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *78 sorry 694. Baker posted: 07.15.2013 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One article I found was written just after his 80th birthday and showed in his last 25 races he scored 17 Top 10s an over half of those doubled as Top 5s. For me I think it would be 1,000 time cooler to see Red Farmer get a shot in a cup car than Morgan, Labonte, Elliott, Hylton or any other old timer you can bring up. 695. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, Farmer (no pun intended) never wanted to race Cup (despite his numerous starts), and I doubt that he has changed his mind. 696. Baker posted: 07.15.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't doubt that at all. I just think it would be cool as hell to see it. 697. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) By the way, here are the top six (there was a three-way tie for the fourth spot) gainers in the closing laps (last 10%) yesterday: 1. Jeff Gordon, +9 (Dude. Refuse to Lose.) 2. David Ragan, +7 3. Greg Biffle, +6 T-4. Clint Bowyer, +5 T-4. David Gilliland, +5 T-4. David Stremme, +5 698. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Has anyone seen ESPN's new NASCAR TV spot? It's a joke. 699. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.15.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Has anyone seen ESPN's new NASCAR TV spot? It's a joke." Seemed like a pretty good little TV spot to me. 700. JG24FanForever posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon's 421st Top 10 finish 708 starts for a .594% 701. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Seemed like a pretty good little TV spot to me." It is, in its own way. But the commercial insinuates that drivers like Richard Petty, Bill Elliott, and Dale Earnhardt won their titles under the Chase format when, in fact, they have competed in a combined grand total of 0 Chase races. Oh, well. At least they included the legends in the spot. 702. 12345Dude posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If I were a car owner with a seat open next year (RCR, FRR) I wouldn't go after Kurt or Newman. I know it is tempting with Kurt's talent and Newman's....... Whatever it is that owners seem to see in him. I'd give somebody new a chance." There are strong rumors in the garage that Kurt is going to drive the #81 next year for Gibbs. And DSFF are you kidding me? If you were a single car team like Furniture Row Racing you wouldn't go after Kurt Busch? "We may ridicule Michael for his on-air antics and his less-than-stellar career as a driver, but as the last two years have shown, Michael knows exactly what he's doing when it comes to assembling talent, and it looks like MWR is going to be around for a while." I can't under stand why he doesn't get more credit for how great that team has turned out. We obviously need some excuse (kauffman) but still he's turned into an amazing owner. Remember when we ridiculed him for getting rid of Reuitmann? And it's pretty impressive he got Gibbs to work with him, and that he brought Clint Bowyer over, for the previous success of the team. 703. 12345Dude posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Logano is running the nationwide race at chicago :( 704. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To whoever brought up Ty Norris...who hired Norris? Waltrip himself. He knew him from his DEI days. 705. JG24FanForever posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who Holds the record for highest win% in cup History? Answer: Marshall Teague at .304%, including back-back wins in the Daytona Beach race in 1951-1952. 706. cjs3872 posted: 07.15.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Actually David, Bill Elliott did compete in some Chase races, but none as a full-time driver. 707. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marvin Burke just rolled over in his grave. 708. 83andJoe posted: 07.15.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One interesting thing about McGriff is that he actually retired once - in mid-race in the Winston West race at California in 2002, pulling off, parking, and telling Dick Berggren that he'd always planned to retire when he wasn't having fun anymore, and it wasn't fun anymore, so he was done. It's good to know he recharged and came back the last few years. 709. David posted: 07.15.2013 - 10:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You are right, cjs, Elliott competed in 28 Chase races. Curiously, there is no record of him in the Chase stats section of this site, which includes non-Chase participants. The webmaster better get on that. 710. 12345Dude posted: 07.15.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) 'One interesting thing about McGriff is that he actually retired once - in mid-race in the Winston West race at California in 2002, pulling off, parking, and telling Dick Berggren that he'd always planned to retire when he wasn't having fun anymore, and it wasn't fun anymore, so he was done. It's good to know he recharged and came back the last few years." This is the cool think about him. After winning 4/24 races in 1954 along with a 9.2 average finish and 6th place points finish. He was then offered a full time ride with car owner Carl Kiekhaefer for 1955. He turned it down because he didn't want to be away from his family for so such a long time during each year. Carl ended up winning 52/190 races as an owner along with 2 championships with Tim Flock and Buck Baker (1955 & 1956) McGriff turned that down to be with his family. 711. Jim Davis posted: 07.16.2013 - 12:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But the commercial insinuates that drivers like Richard Petty, Bill Elliott, and Dale Earnhardt won their titles under the Chase format when, in fact, they have competed in a combined grand total of 0 Chase races." I thought the spot was quite classy. I am a little uncertain about Petty, Elliott, and Earnhardt doing victory burnouts, though. I thought that came to NASCAR via the "young guns" in the late '90s. 712. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Like I said, Jim Davis, the spot was nice in its own way. But there were just a few things that bugged me about it, including the whole burnout thing. If you had suggested doing a burnout to Petty, Earnhardt, or Elliott, they likely would have laughed in your face (or scolded you for even thinking of abusing the equipment like that). Maybe I went overboard, calling the spot a joke (I tend to do that from time to time), but it just didn't seem quite right to me. 713. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Funny story about that ESPN NASCAR commercial: Back in May, I was traveling from the north down to Charlotte to head to the Coke 600 when on the way my dad and I decided to head towards Winston-Salem and visit the Winston Cup Museum, which holds many cars from the Winston Cup era of 1971-2003. The woman working the museum's entrance told me how a few cars were missing from the museum because they were going to be used in a commercial featuring burnouts showing each generation stock car. She also mentioned that the commercial would begin to air mid-late July. Now the cars that were missing I'm assuming are Eliott's Coors #9, Petty's STP #43, Earnhardt's GM Goodwrench #3, and Gordon's Rainbow DuPont #24. 714. joey2448 posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I thought the commercial was good. I thought it was good that ESPN was paying homage (sort of) to the greats of the sport such as Petty, Earnhardt, Elliott and Gordon. But when the 48 car came out of the smoke, doing burnouts, I had to cringe. 715. Anonymous posted: 07.16.2013 - 5:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But if I recall correctly, didn't Dale do some donuts in the grass when he finally won the Daytona 500 in 98?!? 716. 83andJoe posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 'victory burnouts' actually developed out of the 'doughnuts' that The Doughnut King Himself, Alex Zanardi, introduced to the motorsports scene in 1996. The doughnuts caught on, then evolved into 'loops' and burnouts. Very few drivers do the traditional victory lap anymore (let alone the Polish Victory Lap), and that's a shame. 717. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You mean Jimmie Johnson and his 30 minute burnouts. Honestly, the number one thing that bugs me is the length of a burnout. TNT can take a commercial break during some driver's burnouts. 718. chasers posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @709: Yes he is there. The page comes up with only active drivers and Elliott (though perhaps not retired) is certainly not 'active'. Click on the link that says Show All Drivers and Elliott's 28 races appear. The road courses page and plate races page work the same way. 719. jabber1990 posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:30 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "the number one thing that bugs me is the length of a burnout. TNT can take a commercial break during some driver's burnouts. " TNT will do a commercial break during the white flag lap 720. jabber1990 posted: 07.16.2013 - 8:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) well doesn't the HOF cost like $25 a person to get in? im not trying to sound like one of "them" but that seems like a lot of money and its the NASCAR Hall of Fame, Worst-case scenario, isn't it sponsored by NASCAR, leaving NASCAR to pay the bills? 721. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, Jim Roper rolled over in his grave, as well. 722. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Click on the link that says Show All Drivers and Elliott's 28 races appear." How foolish of me. I know better than that. Thanks for pointing out my massive brain breakdown. "didn't Dale do some donuts in the grass when he finally won the Daytona 500 in 98?!?" Yes Dale did do burnouts in the grass. I think I had better shut up now before I say something really dumb, like that Cale Yarborough finished second in the 1984 Firecracker 400. 723. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, he did, NRF. I was pretty sure that I felt a mild tremor emanating from Halstead Cemetery. THAT'S how violent it was. 724. The Long Shot posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Honestly, the number one thing that bugs me is the length of a burnout. TNT can take a commercial break during some driver's burnouts." I hate burnouts in general. I've always felt that they're nothing but a way for the drivers to show off and proclaim their superiority over everyone else in the field. 725. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least David is aware that Jim Roper is from Kansas... more like he can use a search engine. Chuck Stevenson rolled over as well. ""Honestly, the number one thing that bugs me is the length of a burnout. TNT can take a commercial break during some driver's burnouts." I hate burnouts in general. I've always felt that they're nothing but a way for the drivers to show off and proclaim their superiority over everyone else in the field. " And we know one particular driver's burnouts are longer than anyone else's (gee, no surprise...). 726. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Alexander, I don't have to use a search engine. I happen to have the book "NASCAR Legends" by Robert Edelstein, and it mentions in there that Jim Roper is from Kansas. 727. The Long Shot posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't mind burnouts when a driver has either just gotten his first victory or when they are coming back from some sort of adversity (like Dale Earnhardt in the 1998 Daytona 500, or Brian Vickers back on Sunday), but when they're done by routine winners like Jimmie Johnson and Kyle Busch, I'm constantly hoping that they ram their car into the wall. (And for the record, there are major differences between wishing someone would wreck during a race and wishing someone would wreck during a burnout. I don't recall anyone being injured or killed in a burnout wreck.) 728. Scott B posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not a big fan of the post-race burnout, either. And the promo spot is stupid, Richard Petty didn't do that crap. Once again, NASCAR pays no attention to it's own history. They might have had Red Byron and Herb Thomas doing victory burnouts, too, if anyone in the room knew who those guys were. 729. Scott B posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:10 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) And in other rants, tonight's guest on the Leno show... No, not Brian Vickers, who overcomes adversity to get back to victory lane... No, not Morgan Shepherd, the obvious human interst story of the week... Yes, it's Danica Patrick, coming straight off yet another lackluster performance! 730. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Earth to David, I was teasing you. 731. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I hate burnouts in general. I've always felt that they're nothing but a way for the drivers to show off and proclaim their superiority over everyone else in the field." Burnouts ARE a way for a driver to show off their superiority, but why on Earth would you choose that as a reason to hate them? It's a celebration. Isn't that what you're supposed to do when you win something? Frankly, winning a Cup race is a big deal and if I ever did it you better believe I'd be doing some type of celebration. 732. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mars to Earth: Okay, then. 733. Paul posted: 07.16.2013 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The (Polish) victory lap was always my favorite celebration in auto racing. I was also a big fan of how Barry Sanders and Robert Smith of NFL fame would hand the ball to the official after scoring a touchdown, as opposed to some players who use the ball as a prop or do an endzone dance. Act like you've been there before. Besides, we've seen many examples of drivers damaging their engines, tires, and even the car itself from doing burnouts. Why add more expenses for your team by risk damaging the race car that won you the race? 734. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.16.2013 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can think of some examples of drivers damaging their cars doing burnouts, like Dover in June 2005 when Greg Biffle damaged the back of his car after backing into the wall on the frontstretch, Carl Edwards in the All-Star race in 2011 when he destroyed the front end of the car in the grass, and more recently Jimmie Johnson in this year's Daytona 500 doing nearly the same thing as Edwards (although I'd have to blame the splitter for those incidents). 735. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Burnouts ARE a way for a driver to show off their superiority, but why on Earth would you choose that as a reason to hate them? It's a celebration. Isn't that what you're supposed to do when you win something? Frankly, winning a Cup race is a big deal and if I ever did it you better believe I'd be doing some type of celebration." And when you're a Tony Stewart or Kyle Busch, you've won so many times that it becomes a statement of arrogance more than a celebration. Several times I have seen the channel go to break when Busch is starting the burnouts and after the commercial break is down 2 minutes later he is still going! That's by definition a problem. The burnout says "Look at me the driver" instead of "Look at us the team." 736. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason Dale, Sr. did doughnuts in the grass in the Daytona infield after winning the Daytona 500 in 1998 was given by the man himself when he noted in his victory lane interview that he knew he would never be able to use that car again, so he, in his own words "took it for a spin in the grass". The reason he would never be able to use it again was that Daytona impounded it for a year, and by the time his team got it back in February of 1999, it was obsolete. And I'm not sure who started doing doughnuts after victories, Alex Zanardi in the IndyCar series, or Ron Hornaday, Jr. in the Truck Series. I think Hornaday beat Zanardi by a year, but I can't say for certain. But I think they were the two drivers that started that. When Dale, Sr. did his doughnuts in the grass after his win and the celebratory congratulations that followed, Mike Joy even mentioned on the broadcast that Hornaday, who drove for Dale, Sr., in the Truck Series at that time, was doing it, so he may actually have been the driver that started that. 737. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "The burnout says "Look at me the driver" instead of "Look at us the team."" In my opinion, one of the most annoying things someone can do is be offended on behalf of someone else. I can guarantee you if you interviewed all of the team members after their driver won a race I bet all of them would tell you that they LOVE the victory burnout. If they don't have a problem with or think it diminishes them, then why should you? 738. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Smith must always be reading our comments; he JUST wrote and posted an article today about Ryan Newman. 739. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't Hamlin damage his car during a burnout at Pocono once? I also think Ambrose might have damaged his during a burnout after one of his 15 three Watkins Glen Nationwide victories. 740. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you want me to be flat, it makes the drivers look like the arrogant pieces of shit most of the current drivers are. It says "Attention hog" in bright neon letters. Not only that, but as an atmospheric scientist he throws dangerous amounts of toxic waste into the atmosphere. Mmmmmmmmmm... lung cancer. 741. The Long Shot posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The (Polish) victory lap was always my favorite celebration in auto racing." Agreed. No victory celebration was better in my opinion than Rusty Wallace's Polish victory lap after the 1993 Food City 500. The only thing that could come close would be the Dale Jr./Michael Waltrip celebration after the 2001 Pepsi 400. "I was also a big fan of how Barry Sanders and Robert Smith of NFL fame would hand the ball to the official after scoring a touchdown, as opposed to some players who use the ball as a prop or do an endzone dance." *cough* *cough* Deion Sanders *cough* *cough* "I can guarantee you if you interviewed all of the team members after their driver won a race I bet all of them would tell you that they LOVE the victory burnout." Because they know that if they say something bad about the driver that they work for, they'll be fired faster than you could say "doughnut". Either way, even if the crew isn't offended, I still think it's a classless thing to do. By the way, did anyone else notice that Joe Nemechek was awarded *5* lucky dogs on Sunday? 742. DB1995 posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch doing huge burnouts after nationwide wins is what bothers me 743. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The first burnout in NASCAR was done by Jeff Gordon at Atlanta in November 1995 as I mentioned in a post that will be up soon after it clears moderations cause I used some html tricks. C'Mon Rainbow Nation, how am I the only one who knows this? *cough* *cough* Deion Sanders *cough* *cough* As a kind I loved me some Prime Time, especially while playing for my beloved Atlanta Falcons (this was before the Panthers existed and I switched allegiances just in time for Atlanta to make a Super Bowl which they lost handily to the legend Elway and the Broncos, while I had to watch the Panthers lose a Super Bowl that, 10 years later, still has me asking questions like What if Kasey hadn't kicked it out of bounds? What if John Fox doesn't put us in the prevent defense in the end (and repeat the same mistake with Peyton and the Broncos this past playoffs)? or What if The Patriots weren't taping us? 744. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Mmmmmmmmmm... lung cancer." Actually going to a race means 5 or 6 hours (cause you wanna get to your seat early) of sucking on second hand cigarette smoke, so although I agree the burnouts have long since outlived their effectiveness, your lungs are already shot by the time one of these things is over. I've never smoked cigarettes in my life, but between all the races and concerts I have been to, if I make it to 40 I will already be 1) almost fully deaf and 2) starting my long and unsuccessful fight against lung cancer. 745. The Long Shot posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Didn't Hamlin damage his car during a burnout at Pocono once? I also think Ambrose might have damaged his during a burnout after one of his 15 three Watkins Glen Nationwide victories." Yes, they did. I think I even watched both of those live. 746. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2013 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) Famous NASCAR victory celebrations throughout their history Petty, Pearson, Yarborough, Earnhardt, Bill, Rusty, etc: Driving their car straight to victory lane because they've been there before and winning was just them doing what they expected to do (unless you count the 2 grass doughnuts Dale did after FINALLY winning the 500 in '98 after having so many breaks go against him for 2 solid decades). Alan Kulwicki: The immortal Polish Victory Lap, waving to the fans with the driver side facing the fans. Davey Allison: Sears Point 1991, driving up the drag strip, bypassing half the course to make sure he gets to victory lane before Rudd and is already there celebrating when the 5 team shows up trying to cause trouble. Damn I miss Davey. Harry Gant: 1991, climbing out of his car at age 51 after a long hot Summer afternoon of racing without a drop of sweat on him or one bit of his full head of hair out of place Arie Luyendyk: celebrates his Texas '97 Indy win by rolling around in the victory lane shrubbery, my personal favorite :) Dale Earnhardt (the owner): In anticipation of a team he owns winning, going ahead and loosening his belts and chinstrap while still out there racing, even at Daytona while still going 190 mph in a giant pack of cars, so he can be in victory lane to greet the winner. Alex Zanardi: The picture perfect doughnuts that everyone since has tried to replicate since, including something I can't believe you guys haven't brought up yet, NASCAR's first burnout was Gordon at Atlanta in '95 after winning his first Winston Cup. It didn't really work, in fact, he has never done a great burnout. Hey speaking of Jeff..... Jeff Gordon: The Beer Shower Burnouts. From '04 through '07, all his celebrations had flying beer cans thrown his way from JoonYerr Nation. To answer the question that has been asked before, Jeff had MORE vile sent his way than Jimmie has ever dreamed of (call me when somebody writes, records, and released a "Jimmie Johnson Is Gay" song like they did for Jeff). The difference is that Jeff always had a sizeable fanbase of his own. Granted, until 2003 they were pure bandwagon fans. Speaking of Jimmie...... Jimmie Johnson: As mentioned by others earlier, his half hour burnouts. Just in case some people either stayed awake or didn't change the channel during one of his wins, he has to make sure everyone watching says "this is boring, what else is on?". Helio Castroneves: Spiderman! Tony Stewart would do this too later for a while before realizing he is, in his own words, too damn old and too damn fat to be climbing fences. Matt Kenseth: The slide for life through the grass. Pretty damn awesome if you ask me. Even more awesome was the time Carl tried it, hit the drainage cover, destroyed his car, and bounced his head off the steering wheel cause he'd already loosened his belts. At least he wasn't still going max speed like Dale. Speaking of Carl...... Carl Edwards: The backflip that was fun for about a year. Now we watch it just hoping he'll miss and faceplant and make YouTube's "That's Gotta Hurt Part 12" Kyle Busch: The bow. Weather winning the historic Southern 500 at historic Darlington Raceway or the historic Jim's Illinois Auto Parts 200 Truck race at historic Chicagoland Speedway, he will bow. Brad Keselos Keslow Keselwicki The 2012 Sprint Cup champ: The American flag because he is more obsessed with the military than I am with Christie Brinkley's stunning agelessness. Michael Waltrip Racing: the crew pushing their out of gas car to victory lane while the driver stands around wondering if he should start celebrating or not. 747. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Gordon: The Beer Shower Burnouts. From '04 through '07, all his celebrations had flying beer cans thrown his way from JoonYerr Nation. To answer the question that has been asked before, Jeff had MORE vile sent his way than Jimmie has ever dreamed of (call me when somebody writes, records, and released a "Jimmie Johnson Is Gay" song like they did for Jeff). The difference is that Jeff always had a sizeable fanbase of his own. Granted, until 2003 they were pure bandwagon fans." Back when Junior could win races... 748. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.16.2013 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "If I were a car owner with a seat open next year (RCR, FRR) I wouldn't go after Kurt or Newman. I know it is tempting with Kurt's talent and Newman's....... Whatever it is that owners seem to see in him. I'd give somebody new a chance." That's how I feel about Vickers. To me, he's had his chances and only had limited success. I know he's done great so far with MWR, but he strikes me as one of those drivers that does better when he's racing for a ride. Only time I'm bothered by extended celebrations is when Cup regulars like Brad, Kyle Busch and Logano do them after winning Nationwide races. 749. murb posted: 07.16.2013 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) One of the most underrated victory celebrations of all time is Mike Bliss' "White Man Can't Dance" routine that he would do on the bed of his truck after he would win a Truck race. Puts Darrell's lame Icky Shuffle to shame. 750. The Long Shot posted: 07.16.2013 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Puts Darrell's lame Icky Shuffle to shame." You wouldn't have thought that the Ickey shuffle could have gotten any more lame, but ol' DW proved us wrong. Then again, it could have been worse. Imagine if Darrell had tried to do the other "hip, now, with it and wow" move of the era: the moonwalk. 751. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Ahhhhhhh! Can't believe I forgot Bliss' "you just THOUGHT white guys couldn't dance, now you KNOW white men can't dance" celebrations. RCRAndPenske, I agree. Despite Brian's surprise and feel good win in this race, I wouldn't bank on him full time. First off he's proven he is at his best when not in a secure situation. Look how much better he is in his week to week Cup racing compared to his full time Cup deal. And who can forget '09 when Red Bull put him on the hot seat, he wennt on a tear, winning Michigan and making the chase. He was given a long term contract and had the worst avg finish for any chaser ever. Secondly, he has had his chances. Give new blood a chance. 752. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Vickers is a lot like Joe Nemechek and Jeremy Mayfield in that he has just jumped from team to team as either the low man on a big team (Nemechek and Hendrick, Mayfield with Penske/Kranefuss) or the leader on a small team (Nemechek and Sebates, Petree, and MB2; Mayfield and Evernham). He won't reach double digits, but he could get 2-3 more wins over the next 10-15 years. 753. Sky Warrior posted: 07.16.2013 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sky Warrior, that's great to hear that there is a fellow Tribe fan on here. Don't ask why a Kansan is a fan of an Ohio team, though. All I will say is that the Royals' home stadium is actually in the Missouri part of Kansas City, so I'm not obligated to pull for them." "If you twisted my arm and forced me to cheer for a team in Baseball I would also be an Indian's fan being from north central Ohio. I have just never been able to get into baseball or basketball. I am 100% football and racing." Awesome, so I'm not alone here either! Don't meet many Indians fans anywhere outside Ohio and Goodyear, AZ. Hard to root for them sometimes though, but that's the cost of living in a small market 754. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm not an Indians fan, but I love the movie Major League. 755. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2013 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, wasn't Ron Hornaday, Jr. doing doughnuts for all his truck Series wins in 1995, and if so, that would mean that he would have been the first to do something like that to celebrate a victory. But as you said, the first time Jeff Gordon tried doing doughnuts was after the fall race at Atlanta in 1995, but like everything else he did that day, it was anemic. The first time he actually tried a burnout was on pit lane after winning the Daytona 500, I think the first time, though I can't be certain about that, though I do know he tried in after the '99 Daytona 500. And when he tried to do a burnout after his last win at Watkins Glen in 2001, it wasn't very good either, but he got the hang of it at Kansas (the "stovepipe on the door" race), which was the last race he won that year. 756. Sky Warrior posted: 07.16.2013 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ahh yes, back when Charlie Sheen was still more human than coke. Still a good movie too, and my parents are even in it somewhere. They took aerial shots of the stadium at a game they went to. By the way DSFF, the MWR ceremonial celebration was pretty darn good 757. Baker posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Awesome, so I'm not alone here either! Don't meet many Indians fans anywhere outside Ohio and Goodyear, AZ. Hard to root for them sometimes though, but that's the cost of living in a small market " Hard to root for the Indian's? Try being a Browns fan. At least the Indian's make a decent run every 4-5 years and even threaten for a World Series ring every 10 years or so. I have been to 19 Browns games since they returned in 1999 and I have only seen 1 win, a last second win over a pathetic Miami in week 2 of 2011. 758. The Long Shot posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Try living in Minnesota. I swear, we have some of the more talented teams in our respective sports, but we have absolutely the least clutch teams in any of our sports. Whether it be the Vikings, Twins, Timberwolves, or Wild, we can't seem to have a team that can legitimately compete for more than 2 years in a row. And we don't even have any NASCAR drivers to fall back on. The best we've given so far are Blackie Wangerin, Jerick Johnson, and Mike Garvey. 759. 18fan posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Dodgers have made the playoffs 6 times in my lifetime, including the year I was born and then the next year. They've won 2 playoff series since 1988 and in 2008 and 2009, when they finally made the NLCS, they lost 4 games to 1. The only NFL near me is the Chargers, who I cannot stand and I really don't give a crap about the NBA or NHL. At least Fontana has become a good track in the last few years. 760. Eric posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My theory on Brian Vickers win at Loudon is more than a contract year. When Truex wins a race for MWR due to strategy, it speaks about the organization since that is the only Truex can't find a way to choke away a win. The fact is MWR has crew chiefs that are great at strategy and at fuel mileage. Binging out good cars on the race track doesn't hurt either. 761. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rick Mears for the win! He's pretty much the only legend to come out of Kansas. Speaking of Kansas, the only major sports venue in Kansas is Kansas Speedway. Both Arrowhead Stadium and Kauffman Stadium are in Missouri. 762. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was born in the land of Mike Stefanik and Sammy Packard... spent some years in the land of Banjo Matthews and Buddy Shuman, and have since lived from Fireball's state. 763. murb posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only real sport/team that I'm a fan of outside of racing is NBA. Despite currently living in Idaho, I was born in Southern California and pretty much all of my family is still there, so I've been a Lakers fan all my life (although lately Jim Buss has been trying his hardest to shoo me away - that guy is a straight up ass clown and is basically running that franchise into the ground right now). I still follow NFL and MLB though too. I guess if I had to pick two teams in those two respective sports it would be the Broncos and the Rockies, since they are the closest to where I am in Idaho right now. But when it comes to me and diehard sports, it's auto racing all the way. 764. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, I think the most noteworthy NASCAR driver that came from Minnesota was Joe Frasson. In fact, Frasson was a part of the most famous finish in NASCAR history, the 1976 Daytona 500 finish. When Richard Petty and David Pearson crashed off turn four, Pearson was headed straight for the inside wall when his car hit Frasson's, as Frasson was trying to avoid the crash on pit lane, straightening it out enough for Pearson to get to he finish. Unfortunately, Frasson is best known for all the crazy crashes he was involved in, the one at the end of the 1976 Daytona 500, the terrible crash months later at that year's Southern 500 when he t-boned Skip Manning (ironically, Manning had t-boned John Ray in that year's Daytona 500), the horrible fire in the 1979 Sportsman race at Daytona he walked away from (which was in the same accident that killed Don Williams), and was involved in two huge crashes at the 1972 Southern 500, each in a different car. And Eric, Truex didn't win at Sonoma because of pit strategy. He won that race because his car was, by far, the best car in that race. Truex led 51 of the 110 laps in that race, so it wasn't it strategy. Now strategy did play a role in Brian Vikers' win at Loudon, but he did not inherit that race, as he took the lead from Tony Stewart after passing Kyle Busch, and was going to win anyway. And 18fan, and trust me because I now what I'm talking about here since I lived in San Diego for 30 years, but the Chargers are the one team in the NFL that does not have a real home field advantage, especially when it comes to playoff time, because their fans are blasé, the weather's almost always perfect, the field is always going to be in near-perfect shape, and their current stadium's a dump. So for visiting teams coming in from the north and/or east, a playoff game in San Diego is no different than playing at a neutral site, which is one big reason why all their big post-season victories have come on the road, including their most famous victory ("The Epic in Miami"), and the victory that got them to their one Super Bowl (the 1994 AFC Championship game in Pittsburgh). That seems in sharp contrast to their baseball fans when they have a goo team, because the fans helped carry the Padres in the 1984 NLCS against a Cubs team many believed to be vastly superior. 765. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But when it comes to me and diehard sports, it's auto racing all the way." Yeah buddy! I like the Indians, but auto racing will always always always be number one to me, even when Jeff Gordon retires. 766. 83andJoe posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While Hornaday and Wonder Boy might have been doing it a bit before, it was the incomperable Zanardi who thrust "doing doughnuts" into the public consiousness and became, is now, and always will be, the one and only Doughnut King. http://assets1.bentleypublishers.com/images/features/gdaz/bentley.gdaz.zanardi-doing-donuts.jpg And who could ever forget The Pass at Laguna Seca? http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1250/6o7y.jpg ;) 767. David posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joe Frasson is also well known for his self-owned #18 car and for beating the tar out of his Pontiac with a tire iron after failing to qualify for the 1975 World 600. 768. Baker posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was born in the same town as Tim Richmond, but he had already passes away before I was old enough to understand what I was watching on TV. I don't think anyone knows really how hard it is to be a Browns fan. Since the last the Browns even made a post season, again MADE a post season 113 of 121 major sports teams(NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL) have WON a playoff series. The only teams that haven't are the Lions, Bengals, Bill, Chiefs, Islanders, Royals, Pirates, and Blue Jays. You would think well 8 teams must have it worse than Browns fans. I say wrong. Watch news or late night talk shows or any sports show and it is obvious Cleveland and especially the Browns are always the butt of every joke. 9 Sprint cup drivers have also won a Championship since the last time the Browns won a playoff game and that includes a 5, 4 and 3 time champion during that span. 769. 83andJoe posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Doug Richert has replaced Pat Tryson as crew chief on the #83. 770. startandparkfan posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lots of drivers are from around where I live (Near NYC). 771. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.16.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey, I have to ROOT for Cam Newton 16 times a year. I win lol. In all seriousness, the Minnesota Vikings don't get the credit they deserve as a cursed franchise. That Favre interception in the Superdome? Just the latest in a long ass line of Vikings misery. 772. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the Minnesota Vikings are not what I call a cursed franchise. Sure, they may not have ever won a Super Bowl, but I wouldn't exactly call them cursed. Franchises like the Detroit Lions, Cleveland Browns (since 1970), Buffalo Braves/San Diego or Los Angeles Clippers, Chicago Cubs, Arizona Cardinals (in spite of their one magical Super Bowl run), and even those like the New York Knicks, Portland Trail Blazers, Pittsburgh Pirates, and the Tampa Bay Buccaneers (despite their one crushing Super Bowl win). Those are what I call cursed franchises. At least the Vikings have a very good history, a history that many of those other franchises I listed would trace theirs for in a heartbeat. 773. Baker posted: 07.16.2013 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again someone acting like football never existed before the super bowl era. The Cleveland Browns were one of the most dominant pro football teams ever from 1946 to 1966 with their last Championship coming in 1964. If the New York Yankees are allowed to keep counting Championships prior to 1965 and the Lakers/Celtic can keep counting theirs then the Cleveland Browns still have more titles than the Pittsburgh Steelers. We are the most cursed sports franchise of late, however, we are still a very storied franchise, and I for one would never trade Otto Graham, Jim Brown, Gene Hickerson, Frank Minnifield, Hanford Dixon, Bernie Kosar, Marion Motley and many others or our many titles for anything Minnesota has ever had going for them in the NFL. The longest current post season drought in pro sports is the Kansas City Royals who have not made a post season appearance since 1985. They did, however, win the World Series in that year. 774. 18fan posted: 07.16.2013 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, why did you pick 1965 for the Yankees? 775. The Long Shot posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hey, I have to ROOT for Cam Newton 16 times a year. I win lol." Meh, it could be worse. You could be rooting for Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, or, heaven forbid, CHRISTIAN PONDER! "In all seriousness, the Minnesota Vikings don't get the credit they deserve as a cursed franchise. That Favre interception in the Superdome? Just the latest in a long ass line of Vikings misery." We have had our highlights, though. I will never forget the Brett Favre to Greg Lewis touchdown pass at the end of the 49ers game in 2009. That right there was easily the best pro football play I have ever seen. Favre used every bit of his cannon arm on that one, zipping it right on the money, and Lewis, who was active for the first time that season in that game, made an amazing catch and had the awareness (and luck) to touch both his feet down in bounds. And to add on to that amazing moment, radio announcer Paul Allen's call of the play is freaking awesome to listen to. No announcer, radio or television, can get more into a football game than Paul Allen can, and that's why he is my all-time favorite announcer of any sport. Of course, on the other hand, there was the 2003 regular season finale against the Cardinals, when Josh McCown threw a last second touchdown pass to win the game and ultimately knock the Vikings out of a playoff berth. I'm too young to remember that, but again, the moment can be summed up by listening to the radio call by Allen. I'm sure Paul (the Racing Reference commenter, not the announcer) could give a much better analogy on that game than I can. As for the most cursed sports franchise of all time, I think it's a no-brainer: the Boston Red Sox between 1919 and 2004. They even gave a name for the enormous slump that the team had (which included several World Series appearances, but no victories): the Curse of the Bambino. 776. 83andJoe posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Isn't the Curse of the Billy Goat even worse for the Chicago Wait Till Next Years - er I mean the Chicago Cubs? 777. The Long Shot posted: 07.16.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 83andJoe, while it is true that the Cubs' drought has lasted longer than the Red Sox's drought has, the Curse of the Billy Goat didn't technically start until 1945, when "Billy Goat" Sianis supposedly placed a hex on the team after they refused to allow his pet goat into the ballpark. So technically, the "curse" of the Cubs won't officially pass the Red Sox's "curse" until 2031. 778. The Sound posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a Lions fan for the vast majority of my thus-far relatively short life, I can say that their playoff run in 2011 was extraordinarily gratifying. I am not sure most other fanbases could conjure such satisfaction from a Super Bowl. As far as Lions vs. Browns, though... Well, I get to watch Calvin Johnson. And have him in my fantasy league! 779. Ryan posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) really good Grantland piece on New Hampshire: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9478312/nascar-new-hampshire 780. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is another snakebit Franchise: The New York Jets. 781. Sky Warrior posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Browns fan? Big check there. Cavs too. Get ready Baker, we're about to be screwed for the next decade, along with Michael Annett. Pilot is gonna be in some pretty huge trouble here soon. Finally get an owner who has money and gives a damn about something besides an English soccer team, and it turns out he's a criminal 782. cjs3872 posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Baker, that's why I used 1970 as a line of demarcation for the Browns. Sure, they're one of the NFL's most storied franchises, but almost all of that was prior to 1970. Since 1970, they've been as cursed as just about any franchise in the NFL has been, with only the Schottenheimer years giving the Browns and their fans the memories of how things were prior to 1970, and even those years all ended in bitter disappointment. As for the Yankees, 1965 was the year that Dan Topping and Del Webb sold the franchise and Yankee Stadium to CBS, and not only did the Yankees suffer because CBS' mismanaging of the Yankees, but so did Yankee Stadium, and by extension, the New York Giants, because the Giants fell into disrepair at about that same time. And 83and Joe and The Long Shot, there are rumors that there are actually two curses that keep the Cubs from winning. The first is the infamous "Curse of the Billy Goat", which goes back to that incident in 1945 that The Long Shot brings up. But there's another potential curse that dogs the Cubs that is even older than that, and it's tied to their second World Series title in 1908. that year, the Cubs and Giants were in a tight pennant race, and in a game virtually at the end of that season in the Polo Grounds, the home of the Giants at that time, the Giants thought they had won a game against the Cubs, and with it the National League pennant. But Johnny Evers realized that Fred Merkle had failed to touch second base with two outs in the last inning, so he touched seconds, and Merkle was ruled out, the run didn't count, and the game was ruled a tie. Back then, all tie games were completely replayed instead of picked up the following day, or at the earliest possible time. The Cubs won the replayed game, the pennant, and the World Series, and there are those that think that someone on the Giants, or associated with the Giants, put a curse on the Cubs as a result of that episode back in 1908, and they've not won another World Series since "Merkle's Blunder". Of course, playing at Wrigley Field, a park known for having the weather impact games more than any other, and thusly how the Cubs have to build their teams, doesn't help either. 783. Eric posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am sure a lot of you are jealous of me being living Wisconsin when it comes to football. There is not a lot of NFL teams that have a more storied history than the Green Bay Packers. The fact is having the Packers when it comes to professional sport is great for Wisconsin if you look at the Milwaukee Brewers. The Brewers usually are not threats for the playoffs. I rather not talk about the Seligs either. The statement Bud's Daughter Wendy Selig-Prieb made years ago show how ungrateful they also are. When Miller Park opened, she acted like the Brewers paid all the money for the stadium in terms of construction when that is false. The Brewers did spend some money for construction of Miller Park, but not all of it. The fact is back in the 1990's, the state government passed a tax for 5 counties in Wisconsin to have a sales tax for supporting paying for the construction of Miller Park. I was a high school student when the stadium tax was passed matter of fact. 784. Eric posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) For me, I am a Packer and a race fan. Wisconsin's history in racing is well known. 2 famous tracks and have a good deal of famous driver in the past and present including Matt Kenseth. 785. Matt posted: 07.16.2013 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was Burton not the leading candidate to take over the #3 from Earnhardt? What if Dillon takes the 29 or 31 and Burton got the #3? Or will Dillon take it, or will the 3 not surface... 786. Paul posted: 07.17.2013 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @775: Ponder was the reason why we beat the Packers in week 17 last season, which ultimately put the Vikings in the playoffs. Every time the Packers scored, he would drive the team down the field and score. Every time Adrian Peterson would get stopped for a minimal gain/short loss, he would get us a first down through the air. As shaky of a season he had, in that game he looked like a true starting quarterback. Had he not gotten hurt in that game, I'm sure the game against the Packers the following week in the playoffs would have at the very least been a lot closer. I'm pretty confident that he'll be a lot better on a consistency basis next season. As for the 2003 week 17 game against the Cardinals, I was confident that he would lose that game. Even at 11 years old, I just knew we would blow it. You don't go from 6-0 to having to win the season finale just to make the playoffs to read the writing on the wall that this team had lost a ton of steam (Which we know now is thanks to Mike Tice's hard practice schedule that wore the team down.). We also lost several games against bad teams that season (one that I remember was the 4-12 Giants), so history showed that this wouldn't be an easy game for us against a bad Cardinals team. Sure enough, it wasn't. Long story short, the game comes down to the end of regulation, and Cardinals quarterback Josh McCown roled out to his right to avoid the pressure and fired a bullet pass to Nathan Poole at the edge of the end zone. Poole was forced out, which would make the catch incomplete under today's rules, but it was legal then. Very fitting that our season would end not only with no playoff berth while the Packers made it instead, but it was thanks to a career backup quarterback connecting with his one hit wonder wide receiver that caused the Vikings to miss the playoffs for the third year in a row. Oh, and Paul Allen delivered one of the most heartbreaking radio calls in recent NFL history. I can't remember his exact words, but I do remember him saying (as Poole caught the ball): "CAUGHT!! *pauses as he waits for official call* TOUCHDOWN!!!! NO!!!! NO!!!!" I didn't totally understand it at the time, but a I've gotten older and realized just how difficult it has been for the Vikings to make the playoffs, seeing footage of that play and hearing that radio call just makes me sick. 787. David posted: 07.17.2013 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Good heavens. Jay Leno just introduced Danica Patrick as "the most successful female driver in U.S. history". I nearly passed out. *exaggerating* 788. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.17.2013 - 12:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) News on the James Finch front is expected to be announced tomorrow afternoon. 789. AveryNH posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I did laugh pretty hard at her jab about Kyle Petty needing a scrunchie. 790. JG24FanForever posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Good heavens. Jay Leno just introduced Danica Patrick as "the most successful female driver in U.S. history". I nearly passed out.' Shirley Muldowney. 3 Time NHRA Top Fuel World Champion. 791. AveryNH posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And as for the Red Sox 'curse of the bambino'. I was 10 when they finally broke it. And To it in perspective my Great gram was 10 when they last won a world series in 1918. Crazy. 792. AveryNH posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) *put it 793. Mr X posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My opinion on burnouts is that they are very very overdone, everyone does them after any race victory. Darrell Waltrip said years ago that if he had done a celebration of that nature when he was dominating he may have been fired for tearing up equipment. These days I still don't see the point, if you just obliterated the field why take that beautifully prepared race car and tear it to shreds? That car should get a nice cool down lap to victory lane if you ask me. If you have to do a burnout, do it in the grass, its much easier on the car. Burnouts especially don't look that amazing either after a fluke win. That being said I prefer the John Force to the donuts. 794. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 5:01 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) ""Good heavens. Jay Leno just introduced Danica Patrick as "the most successful female driver in U.S. history". I nearly passed out.' Shirley Muldowney. 3 Time NHRA Top Fuel World Champion. " As much as we love to bash her, Milka Duno WON Petit Le Mans, and last I checked, that race was run in Georgia, USA, and NOT Georgia the country. If you want to nitpick that Milka is Venezuelan, then how about Liz Halliday? 795. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.17.2013 - 6:43 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Vikings have had it rough. 4 Super Bowl losses, the Staubach Hail Mary play, the wrong way play (the Vikes won that game but nobody cares), the Herschel Walker trade, the Vikes fallout from the Herschel Walker trade, the Cowboys winning 3 Super Bowls from the pieces they got from the Herschel Walker trade, having to listen to Jimmy Johnson brag about the Herschel Walker trade for the past 2 decades, the epic brutality loss to the Falcons in the playoffs, the Giants 41-0 game, the epic brutality Cards loss, the epic brutality Saints loss with Green Bay legend Favre sealing their fate, Favre's horrible 2010 comeback with his cell phone dong pics, 9 yards short of shoving down Dickerson's throat. 796. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 6:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I still hate those damned Seahawks. The last THREE, count it THREE, times my Redskins have gone to playoffs, they have lost to the damned Seahawks only for them to choke anyway, making the lost that much more bitter. The Kansas City Chiefs, on the other hand, are my laughingstock team. I love them because they suck. 797. David posted: 07.17.2013 - 7:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congratulations to the American League for winning the All-Star Show Game. 798. jabber1990 posted: 07.17.2013 - 8:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not much of a sports fan, it got me beat up a lot in high school I also got beat up for not being a member of "Jr. Nation" so I cant make anyone happy. then I got beat up by other people for liking NASCAR and all the "NASCAR isn't a sport" BS would ensue I belive it was more than once I was asked in class "superbowl picks" ok yes I get it its a joke, so I would throw out BS answers such as "Southeast Missouri" (the local college) or say some team who I KNEW wasn't playing. and even once I said "oh, I don't follow Baseball" the only reason I know The Cardinals won the 2006 and 2011 world series is because being from Southeast Missouri they had to basicly cancel news to talk about it (16 killed in Roadside bomb in Iraq but who cares Cardinals won!!!)and in 2011 I wanted to go downtown and see girls in haloween costumes but it was like 30 degrees outside so I went into a bar and the game was on, then I saw some 19 year old who I worked with in there who was getting smashed. I left and decided not to call the cops because he was a spoiled rich kid, also the cardinals were behind and I didn't want to get rioted then again, this is the same idiot who complains at the local news (and every other major news market) when they neglect to mention who won the race. Seriously the local sports guy signs off then they go back to the main news desk where the guy talks about the race. the Local news also has the closed captions once during the weather forecast "raining Pro-Gadhaffi supporters" sorry about rambling, I haven't trolled in 2 weeks so give me credit, please? 799. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 10:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For me, I am a Packer and a race fan." Since I'm a Vikings fan, I'm technically supposed to hate you, but I won't. "Good heavens. Jay Leno just introduced Danica Patrick as "the most successful female driver in U.S. history". I nearly passed out." Well, if you're talking about being commercially successful, then yes, she is. "Ponder was the reason why we beat the Packers in week 17 last season, which ultimately put the Vikings in the playoffs. Every time the Packers scored, he would drive the team down the field and score. Every time Adrian Peterson would get stopped for a minimal gain/short loss, he would get us a first down through the air. As shaky of a season he had, in that game he looked like a true starting quarterback. Had he not gotten hurt in that game, I'm sure the game against the Packers the following week in the playoffs would have at the very least been a lot closer. I'm pretty confident that he'll be a lot better on a consistency basis next season." I can't disagree with anything you just said. Peterson carried us throughout most of that game, but it was Ponder who performed when it mattered most. Still, we're still only talking about one game here. I'll need to see more before I can safely say that he will be the QB of the future for Minnesota. I agree that he will be more consistent next year, but how much more consistent he is will determine his future with the team. If he doesn't improve, I can't see him staying with Minnesota past 2014. "Oh, and Paul Allen delivered one of the most heartbreaking radio calls in recent NFL history. I can't remember his exact words, but I do remember him saying (as Poole caught the ball): "CAUGHT!! *pauses as he waits for official call* TOUCHDOWN!!!! NO!!!! NO!!!!" I didn't totally understand it at the time, but a I've gotten older and realized just how difficult it has been for the Vikings to make the playoffs, seeing footage of that play and hearing that radio call just makes me sick." They play that call all the time on KFAN, the local sports radio station, which I'm actually listening to right now, and I'm always sickened by it. P.A.'s call after Favre's interception in the 2009 NFC Championship game makes me feel the same way. Allen sounded like he wanted to storm down to the field and give Favre a "frickin' whoopin'", as Boris Said put it. Still, this is the best call of all time. And no, it's not Joe Buck's "That is a DISGUSTING act by Randy Moss" call: "Favre back to pass, pumps to the left. 8 seconds left. He gets away from the pressure, fires to the end zone...IT'S CAUGHT!! IT"S GREG LEWIS!! TOUCHDOWN!! OH MY HEAVENS!! GREG LEWIS, WELCOME TO MINNESOTA!! OH MY HEAVENS!! GREG LEWIS' FIRST CATCH HAS GIVEN THE MINNESOTA VIKINGS AN IMPROBABLE VICTORY!! NO FLAGS ON THE FIELD!! BRETT FAVRE, GREG LEWIS!! HOW DO YOU LIKE THAT?!" "I still hate those damned Seahawks. The last THREE, count it THREE, times my Redskins have gone to playoffs, they have lost to the damned Seahawks only for them to choke anyway, making the lost that much more bitter." I'll say this: if RGIII is back to full health in time for Week 1, then Washington is going to win the division. The Giants are the only serious competition they'll have, as Philadephia is re-building after a terrible last couple of seasons, and Dallas has, well, Tony Romo. 'Nuff said. "The Kansas City Chiefs, on the other hand, are my laughingstock team. I love them because they suck." They shouldn't be terrible this year. My guess is they'll probably be either 6-10 or 7-9, which might be good enough to finish 2nd in the always horrible AFC West (behind the Broncos). 800. David posted: 07.17.2013 - 10:49 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Just think of it; if I hadn't made an offhand remark about how I was glad the Indians beat the Royals, none of this football discussion would be taking place. When we have a discussion, it really goes places. If I had to pick a favorite NFL team, it would be the Cleveland Browns. In the days when I followed American football, I pulled for the Browns. I will never follow the NBA. 801. Eric posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, The Vikings weren't the only one affected by the the Herschel Walker trade and I am saying from a Green Bay Packer fan standpoint. Remember the Cowboys eliminated the Packers from the Playoffs 3 times in the 1990's. The Packers wasn't able to beat the Cowboys on Thanksgiving day in 1994 either. Now granted Ron Wolf screwed up by drafting Terrell "burnt Toast" Buckley instead of Troy Vincent, but the Packers still would have had problems against the Cowboys in the Playoffs. I brought up Buckley because Terrell as a Packer had problems against tall Wide Receivers with him being shorter than his listed 5 foot 10 height. Terrell Buckley as a Packer had problems covering people like Cris Carter, Jake Reed, Herman Moore, Michael Irvin, and Alvin Harper. 802. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other non-NASCAR news, F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone has been charged on an account of bribery in the sale of a stake in F1. 803. cjs3872 posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, I'm not sure the Chiefs finish better than 5-11 this coming season, and even that might be a stretch. After all, they still haven't solved their QB problems, though they finally hired a good coach in Andy Reid. The problem there is that Reid hates running the ball, and that's the only thing they're good at, offensively. Actually, I think San Diego might make somewhat of a comeback in that division, though they could finish 6-10 (or maybe even 5-11), and still end up second because Kansas City and Oakland are habitually terrible. Actually, the AFC is about as weak as I can ever remember it being, and that includes the years where they lost the Super Bowl 13 times in a row. 804. Eric posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I already know the players and the draft picks in Herschel Walker trade before cjs3872 types in the players and draft picks involved since he does assume that I don't know that stuff. I also the players that Cowboys drafted in the Herschel Walker trade, but I don't the time type them right now. 805. Paul posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I also the players that Cowboys drafted in the Herschel Walker trade, but I don't the time type them right now." The Cowboys' draft picks from the Herschel Walker trade included Emmitt Smith (Hall of Fame running back), Alvin Harper (Great #2 wide receiver alongside Michael Irvin), Dixon Edwards (Darn good outside linebacker, who would later play for the Vikings), Darren Woodson (Great strong safety), Russell Maryland (Very good interior defensive lineman), and Kevin Smith (Really good cornerback who was overshadowed by Deion Sanders later on). The only notable player that the Vikings drafted from that trade was Jake Reed, who was a really good #2 wide receiver in his own right alongside Cris Carter 806. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very mature of the Green Bay fan to hate the Vikes fan. Cause for me, if I found out there was a dook fan here, I would go nuts. As for the Walker trade and the impact on the Pack, the fact is Favre was not a good playoffs QB. That one Super Bowl he won was on one of the most stacked teams of the salary cap era. Plus he never won in Dallas with Green Bay. You guys are much better off with Aaron Rodgers, plus he isn't a prima donna and most likely knows better than to text pics of his junk to an intern. If I could have any active QB on my team, Aaron would be first, Kaepernick would be 2nd, and Cam Newton would be last. 807. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also wanna say the Randy Moss moon incident was freaking awesome just because of how angry it made the awful Joe Buck. I really can't stand that guy. No offense to Green Bay fans, but seeing Joe Buck that mad is one of my favorite playoff moments of the new millenium. 808. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.17.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm probably the only Titans fan on this forum. As usual, they'll probably hover around that .500 mark. They actually have a solid offense, but Jake Locker has yet to show efficiency needed to play the quarterback position. He has also yet to show he can make it through a 16 game grind. 809. cjs3872 posted: 07.17.2013 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Eric, if you know the names of the players that were traded/drafted in the 1989 Herschel Walker trade, then your expertise goes light years beyond mine on that. But for those that say that the Vikings would have won any championships had that not happened is, to me, ludicrous. That's because they would not have drafted the same players, and even if they did, they would not have had the coaching. (Dennis Green vs. Jimmy Johnson?) They would probably have been a middle of the road to bottom-tier playoff team, as best. The only teams that suffered as a result of that trade being made weree the San Francisco 49ers, because they would have won two more Super Bowls, and possibly the Philadelphia Eagles, because the Cowboys success in that division came largely at the expense of the Eagles. 810. murb posted: 07.17.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Finch says that Phoenix Racing has been sold to an unknown buyer (unknown to everyone but him at least). He said the new owner should make an announcement either Friday or Monday. 811. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, they made a step in the right direction by trading for Alex Smith. Granted, Smith isn't really anything more than a game manager, but he doesn't throw many interceptions (his 5 in 2011 set the 49ers franchise record for fewest in a season), and he is very accurate on short passes, which are both enormous upgrades over the collage of quarterbacks that the Chiefs have had over the last few years, which include, among others: Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Thigpen, Matt Cassel, Tyler Palko, Brady Quinn, and Ricky Stanzi. As for the running game, while Reid may not run the ball as much as most coaches, he utilizes his running backs heavily in the passing game. Of LeSean McCoy's 1213 total yards last season, 373 of them were receiving, and 3 of his 5 touchdowns were receiving as well. Considering that Jamaal Charles might be the most explosive runner in the NFL not named Adrian Peterson, he'll actually be a huge factor next season. DSFF, while I can't stand Joe Buck either, I hated the Randy Moss "mooning" incident. Even if he didn't actually pull his pants down, he was still, pardon the expression, being an ass to the fans, which is the main reason why I can't stand him. Still, Buck's reaction to the "mooning" was very over-exaggerated. He didn't actually pull down his pants, so quit whining about how this will give you nightmares while you're sleeping inside your multi-million dollar mansion tonight, and just talk about the f**ing football game, okay? 812. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Actually Eric, if you know the names of the players that were traded/drafted in the 1989 Herschel Walker trade, then your expertise goes light years beyond mine on that." The only one I know off the top of my head is Emmitt Smith, who nowadays holds the all-time NFL rushing record, surpassing Walter Payton's old record in 2002. What's interesting is that had the Cowboys either not traded with the Vikings or just didn't draft Emmitt, the next team in that draft that drafted a running back was the Packers at #19 (Darrell Thompson, a mediocre back out of Minnesota who didn't last past the '94 season), so the Packers could have drafted Smith to go along with what would eventually become one of the better offenses of the late 1990s/early 2000s. Ironically, the year before that, the Packers could have drafted either OK State running back Barry Sanders, Alabama linebacker Derrick Thomas, or Florida State Deion Sanders at #2 overall, but they chose to draft Michigan State offensive tackle Tony Mandarich, who is considered one of the biggest draft busts in NFL history due to his poor play and attitude issues while with Green Bay. 813. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Alex Smith will not be the magic pill for the Chiefs this season. Having been a Chiefs fan for my entire life, I think I am qualified to say I do NOT like having Andy Reid as my coach. He couldn't hack it in the NFC East any more because his coaching style didn't work against the pass-happy play of Dallas and NY, and now he's got the same thing in Denver and SD. He will never fix this team, and I fear that I will not see the Chiefs win a playoff game for another 5-10 years at least. There, I just did a cjs post. 814. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nico, will you be posting the IndyCar fantasy results up anytime soon? 815. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Long Shot, I have been in no hurry because it's an off week for every series, and I decided to kick back and have fun. Don't worry, the results will be up tomorrow. 816. David posted: 07.17.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just read through the comments for this race one year ago (we only had 430 posts total for that page). One of my comments mentioned that the eleventh-place driver every week can get fat in the points standings. If a driver finished eleventh every week this season without leading laps, he would rank... ...THIRD, with 627 points. Color me utterly disgusted. 817. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, it's a LONG SHOT from the days of the 80s and before when the champion would average a fifth place finish with everyone in the top-5 in points also averaging a top-10 or so. Since then only Jeff in 98 and Jeff in 07 have come close to matching the numbers put up back in those days. In fact, the only reason you had guys in the top-10 in points with a crappy average finish was because of drivers running part time. 818. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.17.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoops, its very mature to the Pack fans and Vikes fans NOT to hate each other. 819. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Whoops, its very mature to the Pack fans and Vikes fans NOT to hate each other. " I've never understood why Pack fans and Vikes fans hate each other. It's not like the Vikes will ever threaten the Packers' supremacy. 820. Chives5150 posted: 07.17.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I seem to be one of like, 5 Houston Texans fans in my town. Everyone here is either a die-hard or bandwagon Cowboys fan. I thought last year was going to be a magical year for the Texans, but once they started to play actual decent and competitive teams, they really ran out of air, and left me very disappointed. That being said, I can't wait for Training Camp and preseason football to start. 821. 83andJoe posted: 07.17.2013 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) *looks around furtively* Go Bucs! *flees* 822. Eric posted: 07.17.2013 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, Tony Mandarich is draft pick that I don't like to be reminded of. What you have to understand going into the 1989 draft, there some reasons why the Packers went with Mandrich. The biggest needs the Packers had going into the 1989 draft was Quarterback, Offensive line, Running Back, and a younger Cornerback. The Packers were strong at Linebacker although they needed a 2nd pass rusher. Tim Harris at the time was a star Linebacker, and that wasn't the biggest position of need as a result. From what heard in the past, Deion Sanders didn't want to go Green Bay. That meant it was up to Barry Sanders and Tony Mandrich. What happened Barry Sanders was the Packers GM at the time Tom Braatz didn't want to admit that Brent Fullwood was a 1st round bust as a running back since he drafted him. Brent had problems with injuries, and attitude. What Tom Braatz for drafting 1987 did affect us bad also. The fact is Shane Conlan, Jerome Brown, and Rod Woodson were still on the board when the Packers Drafted Brent Fullwood. Rod Woodson was a great Corner before he turned into a safety after his 1995 injury and the Player the Packers needed to draft instead of Brent Fullwood. 823. 83andJoe posted: 07.17.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) On the sale of Phoenix Racing: Finch says the team will be operated by him through Atlanta, at which point the new owner will take over. 824. Eric posted: 07.17.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, The Packers had a very bad offensive line that later caused Don Majkowski a torn Rotor Cuff that Don never was the same player after. When Don was in Green Bay, he ran around a lot because his offensive line did a bad job of protecting him and it got him in trouble in 1990 beside having a bad running game. It made sense for the Packers try to fix the offensive tackle position in 1989, but nobody the league knew Tony Mandarich did steroids at time. Jimmie Johnson even admitted that he considered drafting Tony Mandarich instead of Troy Aikman. The fact is a lot of NFL teams Gave Tony a high first round grade. The other thing to look at is Green Bay in the 1980's wasn't exactly great at drafting although they did draft Sterling Sharpe, and some other good players. Green Bay made the mistake of drafting Rich Campbell instead of Ronnie Lott because Bart Starr wanted a younger quarterback. 825. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "David, it's a LONG SHOT from the days of the 80s and before when the champion would average a fifth place finish with everyone in the top-5 in points also averaging a top-10 or so." Nico, stop being such a smart-ALEX with those puns. "I've never understood why Pack fans and Vikes fans hate each other. It's not like the Vikes will ever threaten the Packers' supremacy." Because we're literally right next door to one another. Minneapolis is just a few hours away from Green Bay, which in turn is just a few hours away from Chicago, which in turn is just a few hours away from Detroit. The whole NFC North is very tightly bunched up. And as for the whole supremacy thing, wait another 6-7 years, when Rodgers finally calls it a career. There should be just enough time for the Vikes to sneak a couple of divisional victories before Green Bay emerges with their next franchise QB. Remember, the same thing happened when Favre "retired" after the '07 season. Minnesota won the division twice, and then we fell apart just as Rodgers was starting to emerge as a bona fide star. "I thought last year was going to be a magical year for the Texans, but once they started to play actual decent and competitive teams, they really ran out of air, and left me very disappointed." I won't remind you about the fact that you got your butts whooped by CHRISTIAN PONDER and the VIKINGS in Week 16. "*looks around furtively* Go Bucs! *flees*" I have no problem with Tampa Bay, although I don't think their quarterback, Josh Freeman, is going to amount to much. He has potential, but he can't seem to harness it. Doug Martin is going to be a REALLY good running back within the next couple of years. I'm excited to see what he can do. And Eric, you're making it sound as if Mandarich was Green Bay's only option. The Packers knew going into the draft that Mandarich had attitude issues, and they could easily have traded down a few picks and grabbed someone like Donnell Woolford, a cornerback out of Clemson who had a very nice career with their division rival Bears. They also certainly could have drafted Deion, because players' opinions don't mean jack on draft day. The only major instance in which a player who was drafted by a team that he didn't like ever actually left the team was in 1983, when John Elway was drafted by the Colts, held out, and was traded to the Broncos. 826. Jim Davis posted: 07.17.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmie Johnson even admitted that he considered drafting Tony Mandarich instead of Troy Aikman." Jimmie Johnson -> NASCAR driver Jimmy Johnson -> NFL head coach/Fox analyst A mistake we all make from time to time. 827. Eric posted: 07.17.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, John Elway wasn't the drafted by a team that he didn't like ever actually left the team. Eli Manning didn't want to be with the chargers. He actually refuse to be a Chargers and traded on draft day. The Green Bay Packers in 1980 Draft Bruce Clark in the 1st round of the 1980 draft with the 4th pick despite the fact he didn't want to be a Packer. Bruce Clark decided to play in the Canadian Football League as a result. 828. Eric posted: 07.17.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I made a mistake mentioning about Eli since he was traded on draft day since it was a planned trade, but Bruce Clark wasn't. Green Bay back in the 1980's did some bad 1st round picks and Bruce is one of them since Bruce Clark never played a down for the Packers. 829. Sky Warrior posted: 07.17.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Race Hub had a nice piece on tonight about Steven Rhodes. Never knew NASCAR broke the sexuality barrier over a decade ago. If you missed it, gear up those DVR's for tomorrow at 7 am. Sounds like he's gonna attempt a comeback with a Truck series team next season too. I wish him the best of luck if he does 830. Sky Warrior posted: 07.17.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I'm gonna post about the nice story they did about him, I could at least get Mr. Stephen Rhodes' name spelled right 831. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (7) The crummy part about that Steven Rhodes story is that his comeback is just a publicity stunt at this point for him, the team, and NASCAR alike. He's been out for 11 years! If this was Chad McCumbee (just an example) I'd understand because he has recent experience. 832. Sky Warrior posted: 07.17.2013 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) The story said he had been running late models up until 3 years ago, that's not really that long ago. He may have run his last Truck race over a decade ago, but that's not when he retired 833. 83andJoe posted: 07.17.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) >The crummy part about that Steven Rhodes story is that his comeback is just a publicity stunt at this point for him Like Morgan Shepherd's start at Loudon was? 834. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Exactly 83andJoe. It may have been fun for Morgan, but it was positive light for BK Motorsports. 835. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I should have known better. You come on here and bash any driver's actions and motives as you please, and you get lauded for it. You slightly question the motives of a driver because he's gay, and you get thumbs-downed and bashed for it, and the ones doing the bashing get thumbs-upped and praised. How can you look in the mirror at yourself and do such a thing? Are you that liberal and leftist that once someone says something your views deem "offensive" that suddenly free speech isn't free anymore? 836. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.17.2013 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) My work speaks for itself. And with that rant, I say hell to politics. Who's ready for some dirt-tracking this time next Wednesday?! 837. cjs3872 posted: 07.17.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly, NicoRosbergFan (#819). I always thought the Bears were the archrival of the Packers, not the Vikings. And I agree that Andy Reid's style won't help the Chiefs, since he basically disdains running the ball, and that's all they can really do, because I think Alex Smith may return to being the QB he was before Jim Harbaugh became the 49ers head coach, which, in a word, was dreadful. The thing I like about what San Diego is doing is that they're building a team that knows what Peyton Manning does because they know Denver is the only team better than them in their division. Their new GM was with him in Indy, their head coach was Denver's OC last year, and they even picked up Dwight Freeney from the Colts. They know they have to beat Denver before they worry about anything else, because they don't figure to have to worry about Kansas City and Oakland. 838. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I should have known better. You come on here and bash any driver's actions and motives as you please, and you get lauded for it. You slightly question the motives of a driver because he's gay, and you get thumbs-downed and bashed for it, and the ones doing the bashing get thumbs-upped and praised. How can you look in the mirror at yourself and do such a thing? Are you that liberal and leftist that once someone says something your views deem "offensive" that suddenly free speech isn't free anymore?" Nico, first off, settle down. You were only thumbs-downed by one person. Second off, just as you are free to say what you want, we are free to say or express what we want, and apparently one person expressed that by thumbing you down. And last of all, saying that only liberals and Democrats do that is B.S. I've seen many instances of conservatives and Republicans doing the exact same thing. But, as you have put it, talking politics is rather asinine nowadays, so I won't say any more. Yes, I am extremely excited for next Wednesday night. I probably won't be able to watch, but I'm excited nonetheless. "I always thought the Bears were the archrival of the Packers, not the Vikings." I'm sure the "old school" fans still consider Chicago to be Green Bay's archrival, but I think that in more recent years, Minnesota has taken more of the spotlight in that respect. "And I agree that Andy Reid's style won't help the Chiefs, since he basically disdains running the ball" Did you read what I posted earlier, cjs? Reid doesn't run the ball a whole lot (though Brian Westbrook and LeSean McCoy have a total of 4 1000 yard seasons in between them during the past 7 years), but he utilizes his running backs heavily in the passing game, and if there is one thing that Alex Smith is really good at, it's short passes. As for Smith, he won't be as good as he was last year in San Francisco, but I don't think he'll regress to pre-2011 status, when people were declaring him a bust. He's matured too much for that. And as for San Diego, the Chargers have a lot of pieces in place, but I think there is one hole that still needs to be filled, and that's the quarterback position. I think Philip Rivers is nearing the end of his career, despite him being only 31, and that's mainly because of how much duress he's been under over the past few seasons. The Chargers' o-line was horrible last year, and Rivers was sacked 49 times as a result, which contributed to his 22 turnovers. While San Diego did draft offensive tackle D.J. Fluker in the first round of April's draft, he's still just 1 guy, and there are 4 more positions on that line to fill. If the Chargers can't find more help for their offensive line, and find it fast, I think Rivers only has about 3-4 more years left in the league. 839. cjs3872 posted: 07.17.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, might I remind you that the Packers beat the Bears in the NFC Championship Game the last time they won the Super Bowl, and that was just three seasons ago, so it's not just an old-school rivalry. And also, while I think the Chiefs will utilize the short pass for all the reasons you mentioned (as well as he fact that Alex Smith can't really do much else), a team can only do that for so long before defenses close down on that. They may be able to get away with that for 4-6 games before the teams they play take that away from them, and then the Chiefs are in trouble. And I also agree that Philip Rivers doesn't have much time left (your estimate might even be a generous one), because he's been a physical wreck for a number of years now (you wonder how much playing in the 2007 AFC Championship Game with torn ligaments in both knees might have hurt his career long-term), he's still superior to anyone Kansas City and Oakland have. I think San Diego (or wherever else the Chargers might be playing in the future) will be looking for a QB in a year or two, but there were other areas of more pressing need for them this year, such as the offensive line and at running back, because their running game is as bad as Kansas City's figures to be, though for different reasons. But I think that, within two years, the Chargers will again be challenging Denver for supremacy in that division, as will Kansas City if they can get a quality QB. 840. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.17.2013 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) Maybe Stephen Rhodes, like Morgan Shepherd, legitimately wants to race. If he can get sponsorship and an owner will give him a ride, then more power to him. Now if he shows up on his first week and qualifies 30 mph slower than anyone else, then we'll know he doesn't belong, but if he can get a ride, he deserves just as much of a chance as anyone else, and if he can drive, he'll be able to keep a ride. I don't think anyone in the garage will treat him any different than anyone else and while the big media story would be his sexual orientation, the story within NASCAR circles will be whether or not the guy is talented. 841. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a preliminary entry list for next week's Mudsummer Classic at Eldora Speedway. 0-Chris Lafferty (Jennifer Jo Cobb) 07-TBA (Ken Smith) 09?-Kenny Wallace (Robby Benton) 3-Ty Dillon (Richard Childress) 4-Jeb Burton (Steve Turner) 5-Tim George Jr. (Richie Wauters) 7-John Wes Townley (Tom DeLoach) 8-Max Gresham (Eddie Sharp) 9-Ron Hornaday Jr. (Joe Denette) 10-Joe Cobb (Jennifer Jo Cobb) 13-Tracy Hines (Duke Thorson) 17-Timothy Peters (Tom DeLoach) 18-Joey Coulter (Kyle Busch) 19-Dave Blaney (Brad Keselowski) 21?-Austin Dillon (Richard Childress) 24-Brennan Newberry (Bob Newberry) 27-Jeff Agnew (Mike Hillman Sr.) 29-Ryan Blaney (Brad Keselowski) 31-James Buescher (Harry Scott Jr.) 32-Miguel Paludo (Steve Turner) 33-Jared Landers (Eddie Sharp) 34-Ryan Newman (Steve Turner) 39-Ryan Sieg (Susan Bates) 44-J.R. Heffner (Robert Colarusso) 51-Scott Bloomquist (Kyle Busch) 52-Ken Schrader (Ken Schrader) 54-Darrell Wallace Jr. (Kyle Busch) 57-Norm Benning (Norm Benning) 60-Dakoda Armstrong (Stacy Compton) 62-Brendan Gaughan (Richard Childress) 77-German Quiroga (Tom DeLoach) 81-TBA (Bobby Dotter) 84-Danny Efland (Chris Fontaine) 88-Matt Crafton (Rhonda Thorson) 93-Chris Jones (Pam Sieg) 98-Johnny Sauter (Mike Curb) 99-Bryan Silas (Chris Baluch) 842. 83andJoe posted: 07.17.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know, I get the feeling that some posts were deleted... But if NRF was referring to me, it's slightly amusing to be called "liberal and leftist" seeing as that's kinda the exact opposite of reality. But moving right along... Remember that only the top 20 trucks are locked in at Eldora, it's only a 30 truck field, and only one truck from each heat race will advance (the other four being from the locked-in trucks), then four from the last chance race, then either a past champion's provisional or, if not needed, the fifth place truck from the consi. Has Cobb confirmed she's running Lafferty? Given that's their field-filling truck they might not bother. Qualifying at Eldora will be...interesting indeed. 843. Sky Warrior posted: 07.17.2013 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) NRF, I got no clue what the hell you're talking about. From the story, he sounds like a genuinely nice guy, and I loved when he took a shot at the media saying he wasn't popular enough for them to cover him. I just enjoy a good comeback story, publicity stunt or not. I was gonna argue my point further, but: "My work speaks for itself. And with that rant, I say hell to politics. Who's ready for some dirt-tracking this time next Wednesday?!" I saw this and said "Hell yeah!" instead! Turn 1 bleachers, section SA, row 3, 6 hour round trip and I gotta be up for work at 5:30 the next morning. It's gonna be a good Wednesday 844. Sky Warrior posted: 07.17.2013 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a preliminary entry list for next week's Mudsummer Classic at Eldora Speedway. 0-Chris Lafferty (Jennifer Jo Cobb) 07-TBA (Ken Smith) 09?-Kenny Wallace (Robby Benton) 3-Ty Dillon (Richard Childress) 4-Jeb Burton (Steve Turner) 5-Tim George Jr. (Richie Wauters) 7-John Wes Townley (Tom DeLoach) 8-Max Gresham (Eddie Sharp) 9-Ron Hornaday Jr. (Joe Denette) 10-Joe Cobb (Jennifer Jo Cobb) 13-Tracy Hines (Duke Thorson) 17-Timothy Peters (Tom DeLoach) 18-Joey Coulter (Kyle Busch) 19-Dave Blaney (Brad Keselowski) 21?-Austin Dillon (Richard Childress) 24-Brennan Newberry (Bob Newberry) 27-Jeff Agnew (Mike Hillman Sr.) 29-Ryan Blaney (Brad Keselowski) 31-James Buescher (Harry Scott Jr.) 32-Miguel Paludo (Steve Turner) 33-Jared Landers (Eddie Sharp) 34-Ryan Newman (Steve Turner) 39-Ryan Sieg (Susan Bates) 44-J.R. Heffner (Robert Colarusso) 51-Scott Bloomquist (Kyle Busch) 52-Ken Schrader (Ken Schrader) 54-Darrell Wallace Jr. (Kyle Busch) 57-Norm Benning (Norm Benning) 60-Dakoda Armstrong (Stacy Compton) 62-Brendan Gaughan (Richard Childress) 77-German Quiroga (Tom DeLoach) 81-TBA (Bobby Dotter) 84-Danny Efland (Chris Fontaine) 88-Matt Crafton (Rhonda Thorson) 93-Chris Jones (Pam Sieg) 98-Johnny Sauter (Mike Curb) 99-Bryan Silas (Chris Baluch) Kenny Wallace said on Speed a few weeks ago he was dropping his attempt because he can't afford the race, apparently they didn't get enough sponsorship and the team wanted him to pony up $10k. And only 37 trucks? Surely more will come out of the woodworks, right? This is gonna be a huge race, I was expecting 45+ to be trying to make it 845. David posted: 07.17.2013 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YESSSSS!!!!!!! Ken Schrader running Eldora. That will be FUN to see. 846. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 9:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I honestly have no freaking clue how my C.G.R. ratings are going to shape up for Eldora. I have absolutely no data to use. 847. The Long Shot posted: 07.17.2013 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NicoRosbergFan THE LONG SHOT, might I remind you that the Packers beat the Bears in the NFC Championship Game the last time they won the Super Bowl, and that was just three seasons ago, so it's not just an old-school rivalry." All I was saying is that if you were to ask most old-school fans, they would probably say that the Packers' biggest rivals are the Bears, while most younger fans would probably say the Vikings. "They may be able to get away with that for 4-6 games before the teams they play take that away from them, and then the Chiefs are in trouble." For most teams, that would be true. However, you are forgetting the man in the backfield for Kansas City. I'm willing to say that Jamaal Charles is one of the 3 or 4 most explosive running backs in the NFL nowadays. And, as Adrian Peterson proved time and time again last season, when you have an explosive running back, stacking the box doesn't mean much. It will become more difficult for K.C. to make those types of runs and short passes, but with Charles in the backfield, opposing teams won't be able to shut it down completely. "Maybe Stephen Rhodes, like Morgan Shepherd, legitimately wants to race. If he can get sponsorship and an owner will give him a ride, then more power to him. Now if he shows up on his first week and qualifies 30 mph slower than anyone else, then we'll know he doesn't belong, but if he can get a ride, he deserves just as much of a chance as anyone else, and if he can drive, he'll be able to keep a ride. I don't think anyone in the garage will treat him any different than anyone else and while the big media story would be his sexual orientation, the story within NASCAR circles will be whether or not the guy is talented." If he wants to race, let him race. I couldn't care less if he were heterosexual or homosexual. What the driver does off the track doesn't matter in the slightest to me (although there are limits, of course), as long as he or she can produce on the track. 848. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.17.2013 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ryan Hunter-Reay won the ESPY for "Best Driver," becoming the first non-NASCAR driver to win it since I believe Michael Schumacher during his dominance for Ferrari. Nothing against Ryan, but I was hoping either Brad Keselowski or Tony Kanaan won the award. Also I just finished watching my DVR recording of "Deadliest Crash - 1955 LeMans" which aired earlier today on Velocity. Truly an interesting and informative 1 hour documentary that everyone on this site interested in historic road racing should see. Watching it really makes me rank the 1955 24 Hours of LeMans up there with the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, 1973 Indianapolis 500, and 2001 Daytona 500 as the most tragic races ever. The special will re-air tomorrow at 6 am EST on Velocity. And after that at 3 pm EST, another special called "Rallying - the Killer Years" will air, which documents the dangerous 1980s which was when rallying was unsafe and trecharous. I don't know anything much about rallying, but I'm definitely looking forward to it. 849. AveryNH posted: 07.17.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speedworld97, I had the day off from work and caught those after the nascar re air on speed. The Grand Prix (F1) episode was absolutely devastating to watch. So many people put their live on the line to do what they loved, race. Without Pioneers such as them motor-sports wouldn't be the same. I won't spoil the rally episode but it was equally as interesting and moving. Enjoy. 850. cjs3872 posted: 07.17.2013 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, SpeedWorld97. The 1955 24 Hours of Le Mans is not among the most tragic races ever run. It's THE most tragic race ever run. And I would not put the 2001 Daytona 500 in the category of the most tragic races ever run, because it was no more tragic than the Southern 500s of 1957, '60, or '65 were, nor was it as tragic as the Indianapolis 500 was in 1933, '39, '47, '55, '58, '64, '73, or in other terrible years. Five drivers or riding mechanics were killed in the 1933 race, and the race's defending champion was killed in both 1939 and '55. What made the 2001 Daytona 500 and the IndyCar finale at Las Vegas in 2011 so bad was that the tragedies were seen on live television by millions, and that racing champions were killed, but the 2001 Daytona 500 was not, on it's own merits, one of the most tragic races ever. It's just thought to be that way because of who was killed. 851. JG24FanForever posted: 07.17.2013 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but the 2001 Daytona 500 was not, on it's own merits, one of the most tragic races ever. It's just thought to be that way because of who was killed." Try telling that to Earnhardt fans. That was painful and still is. 852. Anonomys posted: 07.17.2013 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I thought he was supposed to run to the finish yesterday, was there a problem with the car or did they just park it?" You be the judge "Suspension issues ended our day early. We pulled into the garage to make adjustments and sent Morgan back out on track but the car was not cooperating so the call was made to end the day and not wreck the car." 853. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.17.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm all for gay rights and all people having the same rights regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation. We all have the same stuff inside and the same color of blood flowing through us. Trust me, I've seen it. With that said, this sounds like a publicity stunt. First off, why didn't he come out when he first was trying to break through? Secondly, he had his chance and didn't make it. Exit stage left, thanks for playing. Now when he gets turned down by owners he can play the vicitm, cry homophobia, and make the sport look like its stereotype. When it comes to crapping on drivers being in rides they don't deserve, I am an equal oppotunity offender. From rich pasty white sons of wealthy men who lay the bumper to legends (Menard, Logano) to pasty white meth addicted trailer trash who lay the bumper to legends (Mayfield), to women (The Baroness), to minorities (that Latino guy in the Truck Series whose name I can't pronounce), to homosexuals (this guy), to lazy sons of legends (JoonYerr), I show no mercy. 854. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.17.2013 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "to minorities (that Latino guy in the Truck Series whose name I can't pronounce)," German Quiroga Jr. To be fair he's had quite the midseason turnaround and has been running very competitively lately. He seems to fit in better at Red Horse than he did at KBM. 855. David posted: 07.17.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If anyone wants to feel bad about anything they've said, go back and read comments #100, #101, and #104 on the Bristol night Race page last year. Other than that, carry on. Yeah, 1955 Le Mans was so horrifically tragic. The next race on that list would be the 1973 Indianapolis 500. Both were horror movies come to life, though Le Mans was far worse. 856. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.17.2013 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs3872, I see what you're talking about, because in my opinion SpeedWeeks 2001 was destined to be one of the best in Daytona history, but was marred by the fatal crash. The reason I say it was one of the most tragic is because of who died, one of the most iconic figures in all of sports. 857. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The Grand Prix (F1) episode was absolutely devastating to watch." Actually the 24 Hours of LeMans wasn't F1, but a road racing series operated by AAA. In fact, after the accident, AAA had completely left motorsports, both road racing and the AAA Champ Car Series, which preceded the USAC Champ Car title. AAA had sponsored the Champ Car Series since 1902. But the accident did have an effect on F1. Mercedes, which was the car Pierre Leveigh was driving that flew into the crowd, had won the overall 24 hour race that year then completely left motorsports of all types for about the next 30 years. At the time Mercedes had been dominating F1 before leaving, and didn't return as a factory team until 2010 and the team scored its first win since then last year with Nico Rosberg at China. Remember Mercedes did eventually return to LeMans, and had another disastrous year in 1999 when the team's cars flew into the woods THREE TIMES in one weekend due to aerodynamic flaws, which led them to withdrawing the remaining car running in the race after one of the cars withdrew before the start of the race and the other flipped in the race. The wreck is one of the most commonly viewed on YouTube now. Fortunately both drivers (Mark Webber twice in practice and Peter Dumbreck in the race) were alright but it was certainly a dark time for Mercedes. 858. The Long Shot posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "If anyone wants to feel bad about anything they've said, go back and read comments #100, #101, and #104 on the Bristol night Race page last year. Other than that, carry on." I'll just throw in my two cents about this: just because a driver died in the middle of his career or during a race doesn't mean that we should glorify him, and nor does it mean that we should apologize for anything bad that we've said about him in the past. It's extremely sad that he or she died at a young age, but I don't think that should warrant us retracting any statements that we had previously made about his driving ability. For example, on Leffler's page, the first comment, which had maybe 1 thumbs down before Leffler's death, now has 19 of them. And remember, this is a legitimate comment, not a troll comment. The only statements that I would ever retract about a deceased driver would be if I had wished for him to get out of the sport, for I certainly would not wish someone to leave the sport in that fashion. However, if someone asked me to retract a statement like one of those comments David had talked about, I'm sorry, but just because he died doesn't mean that he was or wasn't a great driver, and I'm sticking to my guns. This doesn't mean that it wasn't a tragedy that Leffler died, as it certainly was, but just because Leffler died doesn't mean I have to take back anything I said about him in past years. 859. 83andJoe posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >German Quiroga Jr. Pronounced "Ger-main", I believe. 860. AveryNH posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I knew that Speedworld97!! What I meant was that there were three different episodes entirely one of which dealt with the rash of god-awful F1 fatalities that occurred during the 60s and 70s. It has interviews from the likes of Jackie Stewart, Jacky Ickx and Emerson Fittipaldi. As well as many of the top mechanics of the era and Jochen Rindt's widow, which is the part that moved me the most. 861. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) AveryNH, when did those episodes air? 862. David posted: 07.18.2013 - 1:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) When did I say to retract any statement, Long Shot? I just said some people would feel bad about making those staements eleven months later. I know I would. But I definitely agree with you. Sometimes, I should just shut up. I think I will next time. 863. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 1:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy 88th birthday to Glen Wood, NASCAR's oldest living Cup race winner! 864. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.18.2013 - 1:40 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I'm sorry, but just because he died doesn't mean that he was or wasn't a great driver, and I'm sticking to my guns. This doesn't mean that it wasn't a tragedy that Leffler died, as it certainly was, but just because Leffler died doesn't mean I have to take back anything I said about him in past years." I agree 100% with this. Leffler's death is very sad and very tragic, but it doesn't suddenly make him a better race car driver than he actually was. I don't see a problem with objective analyses such as saying he'll be a minor league guy for the rest of his career (pretty much true) or he crashed again (he was involved in his fair share of crashes, though that reputation may have been somewhat overstated). Perhaps there's a bit of a point to be made here though, and that's to be respectful and fair in our analyses rather than insulting drivers and wishing bad things upon them. We can't predict which (if any) drivers will die prematurely, so it's not fair to expect a person to feel bad for a comment after the fact unless there was something offensive about the specific comment, but we have nothing to feel guilty for if the things we say are fair and well-thought out. 865. David posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Good grief. I apologize for post #855. I didn't mean to spark rants all over the place, especially when I agree with them. Almost every time I've opened my mouth lately (figuratively), I end up sticking both legs up to the knees in it. So again, I'm sorry. Echoing what NRF just said, happy birthday to Hall of Famer Glen Wood! One of NASCAR's true pioneers. He was also the guy who fired David Pearson, but let's not dwell on that, right? 866. Paul posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've never understood why Pack fans and Vikes fans hate each other. It's not like the Vikes will ever threaten the Packers' supremacy." From what I can gather, Vikings fans hate Packers fans for always living in the past and bragging about their past accomplishments, and Packers fans hate us back because we hate them. The Packers and Bears may have the more historical rivalry (and in my opinion, the Packers/Bears rivalry is the greatest rivalry in NFL history), but as far as winning the NFC Central/North division title over the past two decades, it's usually come down to the Packers and Vikings to win the division. Here's a common joke amongst us Vikings fans: How many Packers fans does it take to change a light bulb? Three. One person to change the light bulb, and two people to talk about how great the last one was. "*looks around furtively* Go Bucs! *flees*" Haha! He's a sneaky one! "Sounds like [Stephen Rhodes] is gonna attempt a comeback with a Truck series team next season too." I hadn't heard about Rhodes coming out a few months ago until I saw a post made by the NASCAR RaceHub Facebook page a few minutes ago. I think that would be great for both NASCAR and for the LGBT community to have an active openly gay driver on the NASCAR circuit, especially since there are few occupations in life that are more manly than driving a stock car at 180+ MPH, not to mention hopefully ridding some of those negative stereotypes that NASCAR and its fans have. I wouldn't hold my breath on Rhodes getting that full-time ride next season considering his lengthy absence from the sport, but if this is what he wants to do (regardless of whether it's a publicity stunt or not), more power to him and I wish him the best. "But if NRF was referring to me, it's slightly amusing to be called "liberal and leftist" seeing as that's kinda the exact opposite of reality." Assumption is the name of the game for NRF. He's got a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease. "to homosexuals (this guy)" Were you referring to yourself or Stephen Rhodes? 867. 83andJoe posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meanwhile, Tony Stewart caused a 15-car wreck in a sprint car race at Canandaigua Motorsports Park tonight. 868. murb posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:43 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) All I can say is that I hope it works out for Stephen Rhodes. I would love to see him become a mainstay in Nascar. From what they said on the Race Hub piece, he came out when he was 17. So when he was competing in the Truck Series ten years ago, pretty much everybody in the garage knew it. It's just that the media didn't talk about it or even notice it because he was a young guy driving for an extremely underfunded team. And for those saying that this is probably just a publicity stunt, in the piece he said that he raced up until 2010 - he reluctantly quit then to help his partner start a restaurant. So I guess over the past couple years he's been itching to get back to racing, and now he's trying to set up a Truck Series ride for next year. So it's not like it's just some random gay guy coming in off the streets. He's a guy that quit racing for a while because of something in his personal life, and who now is trying to get back into the sport after an absence. So in my eyes it seems more like a comeback story instead of a publicity stunt. I hope it works out for him. 869. David posted: 07.18.2013 - 3:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, it can be established that foot-in-mouth disease is a contagious disease; I'm pretty sure I caught it from NRF. 83andJoe is quite a character; I wonder what he thinks of his driver's crew chief being replaced, being the only Reutimann fan here (as a favorite driver; I'm sure more of us like him, including me). 870. 83andJoe posted: 07.18.2013 - 4:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ I'm hoping it causes improvement. Reut is running worse than Landon Cassill did in that car last year, and as much as I like Cassill, that's not a good thing. 871. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 5:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) "Assumption is the name of the game for NRF. He's got a bad case of foot-in-mouth disease." Statements like this are what my previous speech was about. If I had said this about someone who wasn't gay, you wouldn't have come out with your immature insults. Kind of big words coming from a guy with a past history of some pretty damned caustic statements. 872. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 6:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Factual error: It was LEONARD Wood who moved to have Pearson fired. 873. Flywheel posted: 07.18.2013 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, how many times is Frasson mentioned when they talk about the '76 Daytona 500? Just another excuse for you to "share" your knowledge. 874. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.18.2013 - 7:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Check out this crash from a dirt track race tonight. Some people are criticizing Tony Stewart for "starting it." http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hFuxfIDZFrU 875. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 8:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) WTF??? Samuel Deeds 400 at the Brickyard? Is Crown Royal still doing their alcoholics-only contest? 876. 83andJoe posted: 07.18.2013 - 9:56 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) NRF, comments like that are why people get peeved at you - you're implying that everybody who drinks is an alcoholic. I don't drink, never have had a drop of anything stronger than cough syrup. But saying something like that just isn't cricket. That said, the naming practice is Very Silly and should be Stopped At Once. 877. The Long Shot posted: 07.18.2013 - 10:10 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Perhaps there's a bit of a point to be made here though, and that's to be respectful and fair in our analyses rather than insulting drivers and wishing bad things upon them." I don't think very many people on here wish bad things upon anybody, but I do agree that we all should be a bit more fair when analyzing drivers. And yes, that includes Jimmie Johnson and Danica Patrick. "From what I can gather, Vikings fans hate Packers fans for always living in the past and bragging about their past accomplishments, and Packers fans hate us back because we hate them. The Packers and Bears may have the more historical rivalry (and in my opinion, the Packers/Bears rivalry is the greatest rivalry in NFL history), but as far as winning the NFC Central/North division title over the past two decades, it's usually come down to the Packers and Vikings to win the division." What I like about the rivalry between the Vikes and Pack is that it's generally a fairly friendly rivalry. We don't like Packers fans, but we don't loathe them, either. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the rivalry between the 49ers and Raiders. That battle has gotten outright deadly in the past. "Here's a common joke amongst us Vikings fans: How many Packers fans does it take to change a light bulb? Three. One person to change the light bulb, and two people to talk about how great the last one was." Haha, I haven't heard that one before. "Statements like this are what my previous speech was about. If I had said this about someone who wasn't gay, you wouldn't have come out with your immature insults." And you haven't insulted anybody before? "Kind of big words coming from a guy with a past history of some pretty damned caustic statements." Paul? Since when? 878. cjs3872 posted: 07.18.2013 - 10:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Flywheel, if Pearson doesn't run into Frasson's car on pit road during that crash at the end of the '76 Daytona 500, Benny Parsons might well have won that race, even though he was two laps down at the time, because Pearson likely would not have been able to start his car any more than Petty was able to start his, and Parsons, who was third, might very well have been able to unlap himself twice, despite his own car being disabled because of a dropped cylinder. As it was, he was able to unlap himself once because he was not that far behind Pearson and Petty when the crash happened. But you're right, Frasson's role in that crash is rarely ever mentioned, and many people today consider it a 2-car incident when it was really a 3-car incident. And David, as bad as the 1973 Indianapolis 500 was, the 1933 race was far worse, as no less than five drivers or riding mechanics were killed in that race. In fact, that race is the very reason for the 33-car starting field used at Indy today, because the AAA decided that there should be just one car on the track for every 400 feet of track for safety reasons, and that's how they came up with the 33-car field for the Indianapolis 500. The 1933 race has a 42-car field. And of course, then there's the 1964 race, which may be the most graphically tragic in American racing history, as two drivers, Dave MacDonald and Eddie Sachs, burned to death and two more, Ronnie Duman (in the Sachs/MacDonald crash) and Parnelli Jones (when his fuel tank exploded after his first pit stop), were seriously burned. Those are even darker chapters in American racing history than even the 1973 Indianapolis 500. 879. 83andJoe posted: 07.18.2013 - 10:23 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) Kyle Larson will be running the Truck race at Eldora in the #30. 880. David posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah, I remember reading about that 1933 race, cjs. Thanks for refreshing my memory. NRF, Leonard Wood may have been the one who wanted to fire him, but I'm sure it was Glen Wood who called Pearson to tell him that. Okay guys, let's not start a war of words here. That's the last thing we need. Then we would be no better than NASCAR.com's forums, and we certainly don't want that. I like all of you, and I'm sure you feel the same way about each other, so why are we letting that go because of something dumb someone said? We all make statements we regret (in my case, see post #855), so let not use those statements to discredit one another's opinion. Don't get me wrong, we are still far and away the most superior comment board out there, but we all have our rough patches. I guess we are just going through one now. But just keep in mind that this is EXACTLY the kind of thing 83andJoe was speaking of in post #579. Okay, speech over. 881. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who the hell cares about things Young David? As long as no one keeps kindling the fire, which I sure am not going to keep doing. 882. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Damn... Ken Schrader, Dave Blaney, Tracy Hines, Kyle Larson, Kenny Wallace, Scott Bloomquist... throw in Levi Jones, Bryan Clauson, Danny Lasoski, and Steve Kinser and you have the greatest dirt track race ever! 883. David posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay then, Alex. No need to get your feathers ruffled. I was just stating how I see it. I don't know if I've said this or not, but Eldora will be SERIOUSLY FUN!!! 884. David posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:39 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Ryan Newman is also running Eldora. 885. The Long Shot posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Austin Dillon and J.R. Heffner are running Eldora as well. 886. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Austin Dillon is no dirt-track ace, though. He's not one of the best. Tracy Hines and Scott Bloomquist are two of the best dirt-trackers EVER!!! This is going to be FUN FUN FUN!!!! 887. Jim Davis posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ">German Quiroga Jr. Pronounced "Ger-main", I believe." Actually, I think it's more like "her-MAHN". 888. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Babcock is also running the Eldora truck race. 889. DB1995 posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im the only person i know who see eldora as being one big crash/spin fest im pretty sure there are several drivers who have never even raced on dirt i see alot cautions coming out as the field gets through turn 2 as the back of the pack guys get up to speed into turn 1 and they inevitably wreck, this is just my prediction though im sure their will still be alot of great racing, and im picking Scott Bloomquist for the win i saw him lap the field in a 50 lap race with a caution at Volunteer speedway once so hes pretty damn good 890. Anonymous posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Damn... Ken Schrader, Dave Blaney, Tracy Hines, Kyle Larson, Kenny Wallace, Scott Bloomquist... throw in Levi Jones, Bryan Clauson, Danny Lasoski, and Steve Kinser and you have the greatest dirt track race ever!" You simply cannot have the greatest dirt race ever without Gary Bettenhausen, A.J. Foyt, Rich Vogler, Ron Shuman, Tony Stewart, Sammy Swindell and Doug Wolfgang. I am sure I am missing a few, but leaving out Vogler, Shuman and Foyt was a down right tragedy. As for the race itself I don't know who to root for more Dave Blaney or Ken Schrader. 891. Baker posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) #889 Anonymous was me. Also, seriously Tracy Hines and Scott Bloomquist two of the greatest dirt trakers ever? That is like calling Kyle Busch, Kurt Busch, Carl Edwards ect some of the greatest NASCAR talents ever. Sure they have been good recently, but you are seriously disrespecting the true greats of dirt track racing. 892. Baker posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guess it was #890 sorry. 893. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I should have specified *active* dirt-trackers. And yes, Tracy Hines has been a title contender in USAC for over 10 years and he is only getting better. Hines is definitely up there with Bettenhausen, Foyt, Jones, and Vogler. 894. Paul posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NRF, I wasn't trying to insult you, I was just making a statement regarding how often you make comments that you probably shouldn't say, especially when you're wrong. You referred to 83andJoe as someone with liberal/leftist viewpoints just because he disagreed with you, and as it turns out, he is just the complete opposite on the political spectrum. Hence the "foot-in-mouth disease" remark that I made. If you thought my criticism as to how you react to people who disagree with you was an "immature insult," then that's your own problem. And now that I think about it, your post #771 just further proved my point about you having foot-in-mouth disease. Perhaps instead of insulting me or playing the victim, you could take my criticism to heart and work on bettering yourself. David, David Reutimann is the only driver whose Facebook page for whom I get notifications whenever a status is made. I'd like to think I'm the second biggest Reuti fan here. And I agree with 83andJoe that Reuti is not running well this year. His teammate Travis Kvapil has been a lot more competitive this season, scoring several top 20s, and would be higher in the points if not for his unfortunate ability to be in the wrong place at the right time (see his Loudon crash with Stenhouse and Danica). 895. Paul posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NRF, I wasn't trying to insult you, I was just making a statement regarding how often you make comments that you probably shouldn't say, especially when you're wrong. You referred to 83andJoe as someone with liberal/leftist viewpoints just because he disagreed with you, and as it turns out, he is just the complete opposite on the political spectrum. Hence the "foot-in-mouth disease" remark that I made. If you thought my criticism as to how you react to people who disagree with you was an "immature insult," then that's your own problem. And now that I think about it, your post #771 just further proved my point about you having foot-in-mouth disease. Perhaps instead of insulting me or playing the victim, you could take my criticism to heart and work on bettering yourself. David, David Reutimann is the only driver whose Facebook page for whom I get notifications whenever a status is made. I'd like to think I'm the second biggest Reuti fan here. And I agree with 83andJoe that Reuti is not running well this year. His teammate Travis Kvapil has been a lot more competitive this season, scoring several top 20s, and would be higher in the points if not for his unfortunate ability to be in the wrong place at the right time (see his Loudon crash with Stenhouse and Danica). 896. Paul posted: 07.18.2013 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Dave Blaney is my guy for the Truck race at Eldora. I don't think anybody is more deserving of a NASCAR victory than the "Buckeye Bullet" himself. I'll also be pulling hard for Kenny Schrader, and Ryan Blaney is my pick to be the highest finishing Truck Series regular. 897. David posted: 07.18.2013 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I will be pulling equally for Blaney and Schrader at Eldora, even though I can't watch. Blaney because he is so deserving; and Schrader because, well, he's Ken Schrader. 898. murb posted: 07.18.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eldora is just gonna be epic. I'll be pulling for a Schrader win since I missed his Arca win earlier this year. 899. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm right now betting my money on one of the dirt guys. Unfortunately, I think also that they will never have a long green flag run and every truck that doesn't DNF will be on the lead lap. 900. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Oh... this one is dedicated to the kids who ate the bones. The bummer is that the race is starting wicked late. 9:30PM is when race coverage begins. 901. Smiff_2 posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nico, is that including the Heat races and such? And are those going to be televised? Please tell me they are....lol 902. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The heat races I'm quite sure will be aired too that evening starting at 7 pm. 903. ch posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Single lap quals start at 5 pm and are not televised. Heat races are on Speed at 7 pm. 904. Rusty posted: 07.18.2013 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I saw someone list the Tampa Bay Bucs as a cursed sports franchise earlier, and I have to disagree. We were just horrible for so long because we had the worst and cheapest owners in sports for the longest time. Seriously, you'll have a hard time convincing me that there is someone worse than Hugh Culverhouse. The NFL salary floor rule was implemented for the sole purpose of making sure another Culverhouse happened. He literally let Doug Williams leave over thousands of dollars. We've actually been a pretty respectable franchise after the Glazer family took over. There has been ups and downs since the Super Bowl win, but the team appears to be on the right track. Especially with Darrelle Revis coming in. 905. murb posted: 07.18.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm pretty sure every bit of on track action at Eldora is gonna be televised. I think I saw that they're even gonna televise the Tuesday night practice sessions on Speed. 906. cjs3872 posted: 07.18.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, that would have been me that said that the Tampa Bay Bucs were one of the most cursed franchises in sports. I'm sorry, but when you lose 26 consecutive NFL games, much less your first 26 NFL games, that will forever be the legacy of the franchise, even over a Super Bowl win. So no matter what the Bucs do in the future, their legacy will always be the 26 consecutive losses in 1976-'77, and it will forever be their curse, as well. The only thing that might change that would be a perfect season, such as what their neighbors to the south in Miami achieved in 1972. And by the way, I don't see the Bucs being that much better, because I don't trust their QB, who I believe reached his ceiling two or three years ago when they were a surprise contender. They don't figure to finish last because Carolina's in that division, but they can't finish better than third with Atlanta and New Orleans in that division, either. I see them as about a .500 team, and nothing better. 907. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.18.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After all the hype for Eldora, I was expecting a little more than 37 trucks to be entered. 908. murb posted: 07.18.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hmm... I would have thought that Austin Dillon would just be driving another RCR truck, but it turns out he'll be running the 39 truck that Ryan Sieg usually drives. 909. The Long Shot posted: 07.18.2013 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some entry list notes: -- 5 Wauters Motorsports team is TBA -- Jared Landers is entered in the #6 for Eddie Sharp Racing -- Jimmy Weller returns to SS-Green Light Racing, this time in the #07 -- Tracy Hines is entered in the #13 for ThorSport Racing -- Dave Blaney is entered in the #19 for Brad Keselowski Racing -- Kyle Larson returns to the #30 for Turner Motorsports -- Ryan Newman is entered in the #34 for Turner Motorsports -- Austin Dillon is entered in the #39 for RSS Racing -- J.R. Heffner is entered in his own #44 -- Scott Bloomquist is entered in the #51 for Kyle Busch Motorsports -- Ken Schrader is entered in his own #52 -- Justin Jennings returns to the #63 for MB Motorsports -- Clay Greenfield returns to his own #68 -- Kenny Wallace is entered in the #81 for SS-Green Light Racing -- Jeff Babcock is entered in the #84 for Glenden Enterprises/Mike Harmon Racing 910. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.18.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb-Austin Dillon is in an RCR truck. They are just using the #39 and RSS Racing's owners points to be guaranteed a starting spot in the race. Ryan Sieg will replace Chris Jones in RSS Racing's other truck, the #93. The #39 will be a full-blown RCR truck this week, just using Ryan Sieg's owners points. Jeff Babcock is driving a truck entered by Best Performance Motorsports, the team is just using the #84 and Mike Harmon's owners points, the two teams otherwise have no affiliation. 911. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.18.2013 - 9:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm kind of surprised Tony Stewart isn't entered in the Eldora event. There's not a NASCAR rule against a track owner participating in an event, is there? I know that's probably a no since Penske ran with no problems at California and Michigan back when he owned them (I think he owned The Rock too, but I could be confusing things). 912. murb posted: 07.18.2013 - 9:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Murb-Austin Dillon is in an RCR truck. They are just using the #39 and RSS Racing's owners points to be guaranteed a starting spot in the race. Ryan Sieg will replace Chris Jones in RSS Racing's other truck, the #93. The #39 will be a full-blown RCR truck this week, just using Ryan Sieg's owners points." Ah, well that makes a lot more sense. I was kind of scratching my head for a second there. 913. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.18.2013 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I believe Stewart isn't running because he's going to have so much promotional and media work to do as owner of the track that he won't be able to give 100% focus to the race, and if he can't give 100% there's no point in trying. 914. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.18.2013 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like Jennifer Jo will be driving her truck this weekend instead of her dad Joe, as was originally the plan. 915. DB1995 posted: 07.18.2013 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was expecting at least 50 trucks to attempt Eldora, kinda surprised now 916. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.18.2013 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ray Dunlap just tweeted that having 20 of the 30 spots locked in probably scared a lot of drivers and teams off. 917. 83andJoe posted: 07.18.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >the team is just using the #84 and Mike Harmon's owners points well, Chris Fontaine's owner points, to be precise, just Harmon's been using the number more this year since Fontaine hasn't been able to scare up sponsorship. >Looks like Jennifer Jo will be driving her truck this weekend instead of her dad Joe, as was originally the plan. Possibly, however the intial entry list is usually a bit flexible - note that it shows (at least on Jayski) Chris Jones in the #93 and no Ryan Sieg to be seen (despite Dave's explanation above). >Ray Dunlap just tweeted that having 20 of the 30 spots locked in probably scared a lot of drivers and teams off. And this is exactly what I was afraid of, why "25+8" was such a disaster at Indy, and why it's such a good thing that the locked-in rule was done away with in Cup this year... 918. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.18.2013 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And this is exactly what I was afraid of, why "25+8" was such a disaster at Indy, and why it's such a good thing that the locked-in rule was done away with in Cup this year..." I agreee. They should have locked in the top 12 in truck series driver standings and had 1 spot for a past champion if needed, that would have left 17 spots open instead of 9 and would have attracted a lot more teams to the race. 919. Jim Davis posted: 07.18.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Looks like Jennifer Jo will be driving her truck this weekend instead of her dad Joe, as was originally the plan." Either Cobb will be hard pressed to make the field. 920. 83andJoe posted: 07.18.2013 - 10:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I was about to say that it was silly to have RCR 'borrowing' RSS Racing's points for Austin, as with Buescher locked in on points Dillon would get the past champion's provisional and wouldn't have to worry about making the show, then I remembered the provisio to the PCP that says the driver must have attempted a race in the current or previous season, which Austin has not. 921. Mr X posted: 07.18.2013 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I would like to thank KingCuervo88 on Youtube for uploading the 2002 Pop Secret Microwave Popcorn 400 from The ROCK, Johnny Benson's lone cup win. 922. ch posted: 07.19.2013 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) According to an article on Nascar.com, the #84 is indeed owned by Fontaine. "Babcock is a veteran dirt late model and modified driver from Wayne, Ohio. The 33-year-old won at Eldora in May of this year, claiming an American Late Model Series event at the track. Babcock, who will be driving a No. 84 truck owned by veteran NASCAR racer Chris Fontaine, has won over 140 feature events in his career." 923. 83andJoe posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:20 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) This just in: Bruno Senna is considering running in NASCAR. 924. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey, Ben Lowe, I was just dropping by to let you know that I plan to start uploading more classic NASCAR races for the near future. 925. b4il3y posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott Bloomquist will get a top 5. 926. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 4:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, seriously Tracy Hines and Scott Bloomquist two of the greatest dirt trakers ever? That is like calling Kyle Busch, Kurt Busch, Carl Edwards ect some of the greatest NASCAR talents ever. Sure they have been good recently, but you are seriously disrespecting the true greats of dirt track racing." Doesn't this depend on how far you want to extend your list of greatest drivers ever???...I don't know much about dirt racing, but as far as NASCAR* goes if you make a list of the 10 greatest drivers ever, then no, the Busch brothers and Edwards don't belong on that list. If you want to make a list of the 50 greatest drivers ever, then they probably do deserve to be on that list though it could probably be debated. If you want to make a list of the 100 greatest drivers ever then I would the Busch brothers and Edwards definitely deserve to be on that list. I guess what I'm saying is...if you were to sit down and make your own personal list of the top NASCAR* drivers, where would you draw the line at who can be called one of the greatest? It's difficult because if you include too few some deserving drivers may get left out, but if you do too many then some undeserving drivers might be included. Personally, I think 50 is a good number and in my own personal top 50 both Busch brothers would make it, but Edwards would fall just short due to no championships and a lack of crown jewel wins. It's all opinion of course. I would assume the same would apply to Tracy Hines and Scott Bloomquist in dirt track racing. *When I use the term "NASCAR" I am only referring to the Strictly Stock/Grand National/Winston Cup/Nextel Cup/Sprint Cup Series. 927. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.19.2013 - 7:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was just on YouTube and came across these two hilarious clips of Wind Tunnel from 2006-2007: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qw95gCGzmRQ http://youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=8jzi831JukY 928. Baker posted: 07.19.2013 - 7:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm sorry, but no, Tracy Hines is not one of the all time greats of dirt track racing. He is one of the most recent greats. Guys like Foyt and Vogler would jump in any type of dirt car at any time and win. Tracy Hines has driven for the top teams in the sport. He has also never really been a factor in any kind of all star race that brings the best dirt trackers from different series together. He has 0 Turkey Nights wins, 1 Chil Bowl win, 1 Hut Hundred and only 4 wins across all series that run in the 4-Crown Nationals over 17+ years of racing. I'm sorry, but those numbers pail in comparison to Hewitt, Bettenhausen, Foyt, Shuman, and Vogler. 929. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.19.2013 - 9:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tracy Hines's numbers at that bad? He's always top-5 in points so I figured he was winning pretty often. 930. Baker posted: 07.19.2013 - 9:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) He does win pretty often but he is simply not in the status of other dirt track legends. Most dirt track evens feature a main event of less than 30 cars and typically around 24. Tracy Hines would be hard pressed to be one of the 24 greatest dirt trackers to be able to be included in a race that could be called the the greatest dirt track race ever. There have also been a lot more drivers who have been far more talented than Tracy Hines who just didn't stick around dirt because of advancing there careers in bigger forms of racing. 931. The Long Shot posted: 07.19.2013 - 10:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I agreee. They should have locked in the top 12 in truck series driver standings and had 1 spot for a past champion if needed, that would have left 17 spots open instead of 9 and would have attracted a lot more teams to the race." I say: it's dirt track racing. There aren't any locked-in spots in dirt track racing, so I don't think there should have been any locked-in spots for the Mudsummer Classic. I guarantee that would have attracted 40-45 teams over to the race. 932. Scott B posted: 07.19.2013 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "This just in: Bruno Senna is considering running in NASCAR." Money...check. Connections...check. Talent...kind of underwhelming, really. 933. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.19.2013 - 12:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nelsinho Piquet has twice the talent of Bruno Senna, and look how much he's struggled in Nationwide. 934. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 12:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm sorry, but no, Tracy Hines is not one of the all time greats of dirt track racing. He is one of the most recent greats." Anybody who is an all-time great was, at one point, achieving their success at a recent point in time. What you say there really makes no sense in my opinion. "There have also been a lot more drivers who have been far more talented than Tracy Hines who just didn't stick around dirt because of advancing there careers in bigger forms of racing." That's just part of it. 935. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I say: it's dirt track racing. There aren't any locked-in spots in dirt track racing, so I don't think there should have been any locked-in spots for the Mudsummer Classic. I guarantee that would have attracted 40-45 teams over to the race." It takes place on dirt, but it's still NASCAR racing. People don't pay the big bucks it costs to go to a NASCAR race so they can see their favorite driver fail to make it into the big show. NASCAR has to make sure most, if not all, of the big names race because people would stop going if their favorite driver wasn't guaranteed a spot. I agree more teams would have shown up if they didn't have anyone locked in, but still a smart move by NASCAR. 936. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.19.2013 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) If you would only attend a race on the guarantee that your favorite driver makes the race, then you are not a true race fan. 937. 83andJoe posted: 07.19.2013 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >People don't pay the big bucks it costs to go to a NASCAR race so they can see their favorite driver fail to make it into the big show. NASCAR has to make sure most, if not all, of the big names race because people would stop going if their favorite driver wasn't guaranteed a spot. Interestingly, I don't think there was a problem with people stopping going before they instituted the "top 35" rule, when the car that was 7th in points going into any event could have gone home. The provisionals are just fine, they've even gone back to them in Cup. Indy tried the "locked-in" route and it was an absolute /disaster/ - and people staying home from Indy is not something that can be blamed on Little Al and Emmo failing to qualify... 938. 83andJoe posted: 07.19.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eldora entry list update: Joe Cobb in the #10. 939. jabber1990 posted: 07.19.2013 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a serious question about running Cup on the dirt isn't like 800hp too much for dirt there have been plenty of cases of 800hp being too much on pavement 940. David posted: 07.19.2013 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF, you need to make a list of 10 things that do not make a true race fan (for instance, cheering for wrecks). Then post it in a blog. I would love to read that. I wish the Cobbs would make up their minds as to who will be in that truck. 941. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) "If you would only attend a race on the guarantee that your favorite driver makes the race, then you are not a true race fan." Who died and put you in charge of what makes a real race fan and what doesn't? Especially when people's hard earned money is being spent sometimes into the thousands of dollars to attend a race. If I spend $2,000 to attend the Daytona 500 next year, the last thing I want is for my favorite driver to not be in the race due to some freak accident on Thursday in the Duels. There is too much money involved for someone to attend a race and not feel like they have an emotional connection to what is happening on the track. Sports aren't nearly as fun when you don't have something invested in it and I am uncomfortable telling someone they aren't a "true fan" just because they feel that way, especially (and this point has to be reiterated again) when they have HUNDREDS and even THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS of their hard earned money being spent on these races. Someone who is willing to spend that much of their own money to attend a race sounds like a truly dedicated fan to me. "Interestingly, I don't think there was a problem with people stopping going before they instituted the "top 35" rule, when the car that was 7th in points going into any event could have gone home." In order for that 7th place car to go home, there would have had to been a perfect storm: all of the low ranking cars would have had to be in on speed and the top 7 cars would all have to rely on provisionals. There is absolutely no scenario that would ever happen in and you know it. If the top 7 in points really performed that poorly in qualifying, how in the hell would they be that high in the points to begin with? So while they aren't technically guaranteed a spot there is a 99.9999999999999999% guarantee that all the big names would be in a wreck. I think of all the reasons NASCAR has had a decline in ratings/attendance, the top 35 rule had almost nothing to do with it. I would say the bad economy mixed with raising ticket prices and aero-push races hurt attendance. As far as ratings go consider this...in 2006, the last year of the first TV deal, 27 races were on network TV (Fox/NBC) that you can pick up for free just by owning a TV and only 9 races were on cable (FX/TNT). This years only 16 races are on networks (Fox/ABC) and 20 races are on cable (TNT/ESPN). Not everyone can afford cable and I think this (mixed with bad aero-push races) is what has considerably hurt NASCAR's ratings. It's probably only going to get worse in 2015 with races moving to Fox Sports 1 and (most likely) NBC Sports Network. 942. 83andJoe posted: 07.19.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David: I have no doubt the Cobbs made up their mind long ago. However, NASCAR's entry lists tend to...wobble at times, even when dealing with a substitution decided long before the race weekend. 943. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So while they aren't technically guaranteed a spot there is a 99.9999999999999999% guarantee that all the big names would be in a wreck." This should say in the race...not in a wreck. 944. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "NRF, you need to make a list of 10 things that do not make a true race fan (for instance, cheering for wrecks). Then post it in a blog. I would love to read that." Surely you aren't comparing someone cheering for a wreck with someone who finds NASCAR, and sports in general, more enjoyable if you have someone to pull for (which is what NRF was talking about). That would be a ludicrous comparison. 945. Rusty posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Bucs' failures of the past have nothing to do with being cursed or anything though. It was just about having a horrible owner who just looked at profits and not winning. 946. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In order for that 7th place car to go home, there would have had to been a perfect storm: all of the low ranking cars would have had to be in on speed and the top 7 cars would all have to rely on provisionals. There is absolutely no scenario that would ever happen in and you know it. If the top 7 in points really performed that poorly in qualifying, how in the hell would they be that high in the points to begin with? So while they aren't technically guaranteed a spot there is a 99.9999999999999999% guarantee that all the big names would be in a wreck." See Burton, Jeff, 1996. He was SECOND in points and DNQ'd for Atlanta. 947. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This just in: NASCAR II: The Wrath of Fahn 948. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "See Burton, Jeff, 1996. He was SECOND in points and DNQ'd for Atlanta." Because, like they do now, for the first few of races of the year they used the previous years points to award provisionals for which the #99 had none So you have found another perfect storm scenario, but it wouldn't have happened at a ho hum race in the middle of the season though. The same argument applies because Burton could hardly be considered a big name at the time and his team (which is what the provisionals are really based on), at the time, was an upstart team. 949. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "See Burton, Jeff, 1996. He was SECOND in points and DNQ'd for Atlanta." I would also say this is a good argument as to why NASCAR should start awarding provisionals based on the current points after Daytona, rather than waiting 3-5 races to make the switch. 950. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "See Burton, Jeff, 1996. He was SECOND in points and DNQ'd for Atlanta." I would also say this is a good argument as to why NASCAR should start awarding provisionals based on the current points after Daytona, rather than waiting 3-5 races to make the switch." The points leader, Dale Jarrett, also almost failed to qualify since he was with an upstart 88 team when Ernie Irvan returned to the 28. In my opinion this reinforces what I said earlier about NASCAR needing a system to protect the top drivers, which for the most part they did and it was a good system (better than top 35 rule anyway), but it's still absurd that NASCAR would wait that long to make the switch to the current points. 951. David posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wasn't really, Zackary Shawn. 952. 83andJoe posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If 'my driver' is too slow to make the race, then I /don't mind/ if he gets sent home. Go fast or go home. 953. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If 'my driver' is too slow to make the race, then I /don't mind/ if he gets sent home. Go fast or go home." And that's fine for you, but you can't tell someone who spent thousands of dollars to go see their favorite driver race to feel the same way and surely you wouldn't say to they aren't a "true fan." Only an auto racing fan (and I'm not saying you would do this, but there are people here who would) would be arrogant enough to tell someone who spent thousands of dollars on a race that they weren't a true fan. 954. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.19.2013 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I strongly follow the ALMS and the RSCS, and I can say I definitely have no favorites there. 955. The Long Shot posted: 07.19.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would also say this is a good argument as to why NASCAR should start awarding provisionals based on the current points after Daytona, rather than waiting 3-5 races to make the switch." There are reasons why they don't do that, Zackary. The main reason is that often Daytona is a crapshoot race, where the drivers who would normally be go-or-go-homers have solid Top 20 runs, and drivers who normally finish inside the Top 10 can crash out and finish 40th or worse (example: Kevin Harvick in 2011). And after that, what happens if that driver wrecks in qualifying the next week, and doesn't have the previous year's owners points to fall back on? He misses the race and drops further back in points. The owner's points rule is fine as it is right now. "And that's fine for you, but you can't tell someone who spent thousands of dollars to go see their favorite driver race to feel the same way and surely you wouldn't say to they aren't a "true fan."" Suppose they're one of those fans who spent thousands of dollars to see a race, but only care about NASCAR because there are a lot of wrecks, and cheer wildly whenever someone goes upside down at places like Talladega. Are they "true fans"? I say: if you cheer for drivers to crash, no matter how much money you throw around to go to races, you are not a "true racing fan", and I daresay most other people on this board feel the same way. 956. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.19.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like I win the Phoenix Racing sweepstakes. It's looking like Turner-Scott and Brandt are combining to bring Justin Allgaier to Cup later this year. 957. The Long Shot posted: 07.19.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some notes for Phoenix Racing's driver lineup: -- A.J. Allmendinger will reportedly run most of the remaining races out of Phoenix Racing's shop. -- Owen Kelly will make his Cup debut at Watkins Glen in August. Ryan Truex is scheduled to make his Cup debut at Bristol, as well. -- Supposedly Justin Allgaier will run the final 10 races of the season, possibly in preparation for a full-time Cup ride in 2014 (that has not been confirmed). 958. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Suppose they're one of those fans who spent thousands of dollars to see a race, but only care about NASCAR because there are a lot of wrecks, and cheer wildly whenever someone goes upside down at places like Talladega. Are they "true fans"? I say: if you cheer for drivers to crash, no matter how much money you throw around to go to races, you are not a "true racing fan", and I daresay most other people on this board feel the same way." Again, comparing someone who cheers for wrecks and someone who goes to see their favorite driver race is about as ludicrous a comparison you can make. But sense you brought it up, you and I both know that the type of people who like crashes aren't the people who would save up the money to buy tickets, pay for airfare, reserve a hotel, rent a car, and pay for food just so they can take their family to a NASCAR race. They are the people who might consider going if they got discounted or free tickets to attend a race at the track that's closest to their home, but they aren't the type to make a vacation out of it. And please don't say that you know people who like crashes who have spent a lot of money to go to a race. Just like 83andJoe saying he doesn't mind if his favorite driver DNQs, there are always exceptions to a general rule...I acknowledge this. 959. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.19.2013 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where are y'all finding all of this information about Phoenix and Turner Scott? I can't find it on Jayski and none of the reporters are talking about it on Twitter. 960. The Long Shot posted: 07.19.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's the Fox Sports article: http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/phoenix-racing-owner-james-finch-confirms-team-sale-harry-scott-turner-scott-motorsports-aj-allmendinger-owen-kelly-071813 961. murb posted: 07.19.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not really surprised about this Finch news. I'm excited to see Allgaier finally get a shot at Cup, and I'm interested to see how he does. 962. Eric posted: 07.19.2013 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is going to being interesting from the Turner Scott side for 2014 in terms of the Nationwide and Truck series side. I am saying that because if Justin Allgaier is a full time cup driver in 2014, that opens up his nationwide ride to another driver. The fact Jeb Burton or James Buescher will take over Justin's ride and that means who will over the truck ride than. I think the 51 car is good enough to do a top 25 race finish with Justin with Justin in the car this year. What needs to happen is Turner Scott needs to add more people from the cup side. 963. The Long Shot posted: 07.19.2013 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Allgaier moves to Cup full-time next year, it will almost certainly be Buescher who replaces him in the Nationwide #31. Burton doesn't have enough experience yet to warrant him moving up to Nationwide (though he could get some starts in their part-time 4th car, the #34). 964. Eric posted: 07.19.2013 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason Kyle Larson isn't do any cup races for Turner-Scott coming up is an easy one. Kyle Larson is under a driver development contract under Chip Ganassi. Chip wanted Kyle in a Nationwide ride since he doesn't a Nationwide team or a truck series team. Expecting Chip allow Kyle racing cup for Turner-Scott is out of the question. The other reason is Kyle is still "green" in stock cars and needs another season in the Nationwide series unless Chip has other ideas. 965. The Long Shot posted: 07.19.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The other reason is Kyle is still "green" in stock cars and needs another season in the Nationwide series unless Chip has other ideas." Actually, I'd be a bit surprised if Ganassi doesn't put Larson into a Cup car next year. Both his drivers (McMurray and Montoya) are free agents, and while Larson still isn't ready for a Cup ride, Ganassi isn't known for his patience in bringing kids up to the big leagues. 966. startandparkfan posted: 07.19.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It looks like Turner-Scott has 5 trucks entered in the Eldora race. 4- Jeb Burton 30- Kyle Larson 31- James Buescher 32- Miguel Paludo 34- Ryan Newman How is that allowed? On jayski, it says the 4 truck is owned by Harry Scott Jr, but it's still the same team. "Actually, I'd be a bit surprised if Ganassi doesn't put Larson into a Cup car next year. Both his drivers (McMurray and Montoya) are free agents, and while Larson still isn't ready for a Cup ride, Ganassi isn't known for his patience in bringing kids up to the big leagues." Ganassi should keep McMurray and Montoya, both have improved over the year. I'd be surprised if one of them doesn't win this year, especially McMurray. Ganassi should run the #41 or something for Larson. 967. The Long Shot posted: 07.19.2013 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It looks like Turner-Scott has 5 trucks entered in the Eldora race. 4- Jeb Burton 30- Kyle Larson 31- James Buescher 32- Miguel Paludo 34- Ryan Newman How is that allowed? On jayski, it says the 4 truck is owned by Harry Scott Jr, but it's still the same team." Organizations can run a 5th team in a maximum of 7 races, as long as a rookie is driving. Newman has only 4 career Truck series starts, so he technically qualifies as a Truck rookie. 968. startandparkfan posted: 07.19.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If Allgaier moves to Cup full-time next year, it will almost certainly be Buescher who replaces him in the Nationwide #31. Burton doesn't have enough experience yet to warrant him moving up to Nationwide (though he could get some starts in their part-time 4th car, the #34). Yeah, I was surprised when they put Piquet in the #30 this year instead of Buescher. Both had a Nationwide win, but Buescher had 3 top 5s and 13 top 10s compared to Piquet's 1 top 5 (his win) and only one other top 10, back in 2010. Buescher also had more wins in Trucks (4, Piquet had 2). Turner should run a 2nd car for Buescher in cup. 969. Sky Warrior posted: 07.19.2013 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A thought occurs that I don't remember seeing anyone bring up yet. What's the NASACAR record for most different manufacturers driven for? Morgan Shepherd's start last Sunday in a Toyota was his 8th different car make he's driven for 970. ch posted: 07.19.2013 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am still interested in whether the Scott deal with Phoenix will operate as a completely separate team from Turner Scott, or if they will be run as the same team. 971. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.19.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Good question Sky Warrior. After doing some research, David Pearson also drove for 8 (Chevrolet, Pontiac, Dodge, Ford, Mercury, Plymouth, Oldsmobile, Buick). I believe that is the largest number of manufacturers a driver has driven for. And while Richard Petty drove for 7 different makes in 1185 races, Pearson drove for 8 in 574 starts. 972. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.19.2013 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And after doing more research, Dave Marcis drove for 9 makes in his career (10 if you count Camaro apart from Chevrolet) (Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford, Plymouth, Camaro, which he drove in the race Bobby Allison drove a Mustang, which NASCAR doesn't count, Matador, Oldsmobile, Buick, Chrysler, Pontiac). I believe this is the record. 973. 83andJoe posted: 07.19.2013 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Now we just need Honda to decide to run a NASCAR program so Morgan can get the all-time record. (It's not that far-fetched; ACT Late Model Tour driver Donald Theetge has run a car in that series that, while I believe the fiberglass was sold as a Chevy body, is decaled and marked (due to his sponsor being a dealer) as a Honda Accord from (at least)2009-2011, an Acura in 2012, and this year of all things a /Mercedes/.) 974. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.19.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Not surprisingly, NASCAR has suspended the use of aerial cameras after Fox's failed attempt at Charlotte back in May. Now only if NASCAR can also suspend the practice of team owners working as analysts for TV networks......... 975. Baker posted: 07.19.2013 - 10:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) --"I'm sorry, but no, Tracy Hines is not one of the all time greats of dirt track racing. He is one of the most recent greats." "Anybody who is an all-time great was, at one point, achieving their success at a recent point in time. What you say there really makes no sense in my opinion." I didn't mean it as in a period of time. I meant it more that Tracy Hines is putting up borderline great results in a very depleted talent pool in USAC. I love watching USAC but it no where close to what it once was as far as the competition. WoO has stolen its thunder and WoO has even started dwindling because there is simply no money in it. 976. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.19.2013 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Not surprisingly, NASCAR has suspended the use of aerial cameras after Fox's failed attempt at Charlotte back in May. Now only if NASCAR can also suspend the practice of team owners working as analysts for TV networks........." I understand ending the aerial camera deal, but I don't understand why they waited 2 months after the original incident to announce this decision. Would your proposed new rule only eliminate current owners or would it also include previous owners? Because that would get rid of almost all of the non-play-by-play guys... Andy Petree, Rusty Wallace, Dale Jarrett (had a Busch Series team), Brad Daugherty, Kyle Petty, and Darrell Waltrip. On the plus side, we wouldn't lose Wally Dallenbach, but unfortunately we'd still be stuck with Larry McReynolds (unless owning a KNPSE car for his son counts, PLEASE say it does). 977. The Long Shot posted: 07.19.2013 - 10:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think he means current owners, NLA. This would get rid of two of the most annoying analysts ever in Brad Daugherty and Michael Waltrip. 978. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.19.2013 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Only current owners, NoLongerAnonymous. It was especially directed towards Michael Waltrip and Brad Daugherty. 979. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.19.2013 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NoLongerAnonymous, I think the reason why they announced that now is because NASCAR is returning to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway next weekend, where an aerial cam that uses a cable to move just like Fox's is used every year for the Indianapolis 500 and Brickyard 400. There was probably a lot of speculation of whether or not IMS would continue doing it, but after announcing that, it's official that they won't. 980. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.20.2013 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm back guys. What've I missed since being gone to OKlahoma for a week? - - - - 18. murb posted: Pigs have flown. Nascar disallows something from the 48. I'm gone a week and this happens again this year!? Good lord Christ. - - - - 56. 83andJoe posted: And some fans wonder why we chuckle and smile at the "Good Ol' Boys" like Smokey Yunick and Gary Nelson and whatnot who would bend the rules into a pretzel and That's Racin but we throw Knaus under a busload of asterisks. ^ I agree with this man here. - - - - 79. DaleSrFanForever posted: 20 years ago today. 2 complete decades. A long time. So why do I still remember that horrible ache in my chest and stomach I had all day, how everything I did seemed to hurt, just like it was only 20 minutes ago? How come every time I hear one of his old interviews, I don't think "that sounds vaguely familiar, who is that?", I immediately hear that voice and think or say "that is Davey Allison". I was only nine years old when he left us, why are the memories still so clear? Because that is how special Davey was, how lucky myself and all of us were to have him a part of NASCAR for more than 6 years on the top level every week. I've spoken at length about him as a racer, but most importantly he was a great guy, and it still hurts to know we lost him at such a young age, while also feeling so good to have the wonderful memories he left us. 20 years, not forgotten one bit. God Bless you Davey, and thank you for the priceless memories. ^That was moving. If I could change one thing in the history of NASCAR, it wouldn't be Joe Weatherly, It wouldn't be Alan Kulwicki, Fireball Roberts, Dale Earndhart Sr, or anything like that. It would be Davey Allison. He died well before I was born, but when I look back and watch the races he ran, the interviews he gave, it moves me. His 1992 season was ridiculous, like Lady Luck was acting super hormonal-bitchy with him. Win and injury, win and injury, yet he was still the real favorite to win the championship going into the finale. But that's not all. I'll dare say this. All the stats Jimmie Johnson will accumulate in his career would probably equal Davey Allison's if that kid was allowed to race to the end of a full career, maybe with the exception of number of championships. Davey would have won the championship in 1994 for sure, that 28 ford was dead fast, and something tells me that the incident that enveloped Irvan wouldn't have happened to him. Alot of people associate that 28 ford with Ricky Rudd *sticks tongue out in disgust*, or Ernie Ivan *Ehh*, but for me, Davey will always hold a special place in my heart. - - - - 166. Schroeder51 posted: Wasn't Jimmie Johnson actually voted NASCAR's "sexiest driver" once, or am I totally imagining that (like I HOPE I am)? ^ You're imagining it. It's not true. Dale Jr won the award. Johnson was fourth, behind Stewart and Gordon. - - - - 286. The Long Shot posted: Jimmie love fest? Clearly you have been on this site for all of 5 minutes. He must have been sarcastic or seen one of my pro-JJ comments on a separate page. I'm literally the only pro JJ guy on this site, but even I moderate and call him out for rule violations! - - - - Kurt and Newman wrecked each other out!? D@NM IT! I want Montoya to win an oval race so badly, and KU Busch to win at least two more races with that team so badly! IS THAT TO DANM MUCH TO ASK FOR, YOU RACING GODS! I WOULD EVEN TAKE ANOTHER BLOODY BRAD K CHAMPIONSHIP IF THOSE TWO COULD WIN IN THE SAME YEAR! - - - - 442. Ryan W posted: Vickers really needs a full time ride. It seems like wherever he runs in the 55 he does pretty well. ^ If anyone hired Brian Vickers as a full time cup driver after the SUPER NUMEROUS fiasocs *Martinsville, Texas, AND both Phoneix events*, I would lose 75 percent of my respect for them, irregardless of who it is. - - - - 509. I Love Japan posted: Utterly disgusted. Vickers is still a joke ^ Bless you So much for saying the truth. BRIAN VICKERS WON THE RACE! -Insert longest ever slew of curse words ever- Also *Dual Middle fingers to Vickers* - - - - 620. DaleSrFanForever posted: I hate it when bums rough up legends. I hated it at Pocono 2000, I hated it at the first Pocono last year, and I don't like it now. ^ I'm not a Dale Sr. fan. I watch that finish for laughs, but in all honesty, I do think that was a terrible move. - - - - 726. David posted: Alexander, I don't have to use a search engine. I happen to have the book "NASCAR Legends" by Robert Edelstein, and it mentions in there that Jim Roper is from Kansas. ^ At the legends out here by the speedway, one of the manhole covers state that Jim Roper came from Kansas. Funny. - - - - 761. David posted: Rick Mears for the win! That's on one of our manhole covers also. God Bless Rick Mears. - - - - 826. Jim Davis posted: "Jimmie Johnson even admitted that he considered drafting Tony Mandarich instead of Troy Aikman." Jimmie Johnson -> NASCAR driver Jimmy Johnson -> NFL head coach/Fox analyst A mistake we all make from time to time. ^ Anyone else remeber that commercial where this one dude wanted to call Jimmie Johnson *NASCAR driver*, and called the NFL dude and a few other guys. Never liked the dude, but I always thought that commercial was funny as all h3ll. - - - - Also I just finished watching my DVR recording of "Deadliest Crash - 1955 LeMans" which aired earlier today on Velocity. Truly an interesting and informative 1 hour documentary that everyone on this site interested in historic road racing should see. Watching it really makes me rank the 1955 24 Hours of LeMans up there with the 1994 San Marino Grand Prix, 1973 Indianapolis 500, and 2001 Daytona 500 as the most tragic races ever. ^ Just because Dale Sr. dies in 2001 doesn't make it as terrible as the other three races in that list. I shudder thinking about them. I sadly shake my head at the 2001 Daytona 500, but I shudder at the '73 INdy 500, the 94 San Marino Grand Prix, and the '55 LeMans tragedy, which seems straight out of 'Final Destination'. - - - - I'll say it again now. Trucks on Dirt will be bad in some way, shape, or form. I know that no one will agree with me, but I said it on here when it was first announced, and I'm sticking with it. Yes I'll be land-blasted insanely for it, but It's already been posted. 981. The Long Shot posted: 07.20.2013 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Welcome back, Destroya (I'm just going to call you that, since I can never remember your full name). "I'll say it again now. Trucks on Dirt will be bad in some way, shape, or form. I know that no one will agree with me, but I said it on here when it was first announced, and I'm sticking with it. Yes I'll be land-blasted insanely for it, but It's already been posted." Please elaborate. Do you mean bad as in "awful racing" bad, bad as in "wreck-fest" bad, or bad as in "dangerous" bad? 982. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though I disagree with a lot of what he says, Destroyah (I'm pretty sure that's the correct abbreviation; Destroyah-iris-mix-666) is a fellow Jayhawker (college loyalties aside, this is what people from Kansas are called), so I like him. Hey, by the way, I was at Legends last Saturday, albeit just for a lunch stop. I didn't see their manhole covers, though. I do remember that Jimmie Johnson commercial. I found it so hilarious. 983. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 2:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And after doing more research, Dave Marcis drove for 9 makes in his career (10 if you count Camaro apart from Chevrolet) (Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford, Plymouth, Camaro, which he drove in the race Bobby Allison drove a Mustang, which NASCAR doesn't count, Matador, Oldsmobile, Buick, Chrysler, Pontiac). I believe this is the record." Curtis Turner not only drove for 11 makes: Buick,Ford,Nash,Mercury,Plymouth,Pontiac,T-Bird,Hudson,Oldsmobile,Chevrolet and Lincoln,but he also won his 17 races with 9 different teams!! Curtis Turner was also 24-0 against Joe Weatherly in 1-2 finishes in the Convertible division. 984. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 2:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Allison holds the record for wins with the most different teams at 14. Top 12 Greatest Nascar Cup drivers: -1. David Pearson -2. Bobby Allison -3. Richard Petty -4. Dale Earnhardt -5. Jeff Gordon -6. Darrell Waltrip -7. Cale Yarborough -8. Tim Flock -9. Herb Thomas 10. Jimmie Johnson 11. Lee Petty 12. Tony Stewart 985. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 6:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (3) What a friggin' joke. No way in hell you can say Jimmie is greater than Lee. That'd be like saying Emmitt Smith is better than Jim Brown. 986. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 6:56 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "What a friggin' joke. No way in hell you can say Jimmie is greater than Lee. That'd be like saying Emmitt Smith is better than Jim Brown." No it wouldn't. The comparison isn't even similar. Jimmie Johnson: 5 Championships 8 wins at Martinsville 7 wins at Dover 6 wins at Charlotte with 3 World 600's 4 Brickyard 400's 3 Darlington wins with 2 Southern 500 wins 3 Daytona wins with 2 Daytona 500 wins Lee Petty: 3 Championships 1 Daytona 500 1 Daytona Beach-Course win (that was handed to him.) If you want to think it's a joke, cool. 987. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That'd be like saying Emmitt Smith is better than Jim Brown." Jim Brown would be David Pearson because neither ever reported an injury in their careers, and both were mentally better than all of their other competitors by miles. I have no clue who the Emmitt Smith of Nascar would be though. 988. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:19 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Again, you used your artificial bias toward your "definition" of crown jewels. How can you bias yourself based on races the guy didn't even run? "5 Championships 8 Martinsville wins 7 wins at Dover 6 wins at Charlotte with 3 World 600's 4 Brickyard 400's 3 Darlington wins with 2 Southern 500 wins 3 Daytona wins with 2 Daytona 500 wins" Championships: Lee had to put a hell of a lot more effort to just lead the point. Lee literally ran more races to win the 58 title than Jimmie ran, AND Lee was running week-to-week while having to worry about feeding his family while struggling to just keep his team above water. Plus, don't forget (DSFF will love me for this): 2006*, 2007* (didn't even really win it), 2008* (again lost with out Chase), 2009*, 2010*(again routed without Chase) Martinsville: most of his career they only went there once a year and he has three wins there anyway against Herb, Buck, Tim, Marshall, and Rex. Much stiffer competition. Dover: fastest car always wins, just like a cookie-cutter Charlotte: Lee ran TWO races there, and again a cookie-cutter/hack track Indy: didn't run there in Lee's day Darlington: His one weak point. Never mind, Jimmie has never won the Southern 500 unless you count those artificial hack races run under the lights from 2004 onward. Daytona: Lee won the first Daytona on a track with NO WALLS and NO RESTRICTOR PLATES to artificially give him the lead. Morgan Shepherd could have won this year's 500 if you put him out front. Langhorne: Jimmie has no Langhorne wins. That's considered to be one of the toughest tracks in world alongside the Nordschleife, Spa, and Le Mans. Winning there used to be more prestigious than winning Indy because of the balls needed to win there. Dirt tracks: Lee is the all-time winner on dirt. That's astounding considering they ran more dirt in some years in the 60s, after Lee was done, than during his career. He won twice at Heidelberg, a track famous for its pot-holes. Lee was top-5 in points from 1949-1959, all with a week-to-week operation, that, unlike Jimmie's car, didn't have millions more dollars pumped into than every car in the sport. Also, Lee had a 5 person crew. Lee was the owner and car chief, with his teenage sons being the crew chief, engine builders, and pit crew. DSFF, I do this for you! 989. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:33 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Again, you used your artificial bias toward your "definition" of crown jewels. How can you bias yourself based on races the guy didn't even run? I was just listing a few noteworthy feats. I realized afterwards that I didn't list enough for Lee. artificial bias? Are you any different? "Darlington: His one weak point. Never mind, Jimmie has never won the Southern 500 unless you count those artificial hack races run under the lights from 2004 onward." Bullshit. There isn't anything "hack" about any race at Darlington. 990. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (3) Yeah there is. Darlington used to be run... in the full sun... 100-110 degrees... no decent air condition... 500 miles... on Labor Day weekend. That's a hell of a lot more difficult than running in 70 degrees at night on a much grippier tracks. Darlington was about survival. Now the winners are no different than your cookie cutter winners. The best could show an impressive run at the Lady in a junk car (see Gant, Harry, 1989, "The Bandit is back"). Now it's just another aero-push derby (see, Smith, Regan, 2011). 991. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That's a hell of a lot more difficult than running in 70 degrees at night on a much grippier tracks. Darlington was about survival. Now the winners are no different than your cookie cutter winners." I guess it's fair that Gordon would win the only Day race run since it was moved from Labor Day, right? When I went to my first Cup race at the 2002 edition, the race was started under the yellow,while I was still outside the track,due to light rain. And the sky was overcast and only a little warm all day. I was sitting(standing)at the exit of turn 2 and it was thrilling to see the drivers angle the car at the apron and then slide out of the turn right next to the wall. Kyle Petty finished 13th that day,on top of Jeff winning the race. It was a good experience and the real beginning of me becoming a Gordon fan. 992. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:24 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I guess it's fair that Gordon would win the only Day race run since it was moved from Labor Day, right?" If only from the fact that Jeff grew the balls necessary from years of running on Labor Day weekend. 993. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Lee literally ran more races to win the 58 title than Jimmie ran" I couldn't figure out what this meant until I realized Johnson's five title's only comprise 50 event's. which is the # of races Lee started in 1958. Total races and wins in their title winning seasons for all 3+ Championship winning drivers: Richard Petty: 277 races with 93 wins Dale Earnhardt: 208 races with 44 wins Jimmie Johnson: 50 races with 13 wins (this is lame.) Jeff Gordon: 132 races with 36 wins Lee Petty: 126 races with 25 wins David Pearson: 142 races with 42 wins Cale Yarborough: 90 races with 28 wins Darrell Waltrip: 89 races with 27 wins (nearly identical to Cale.) Tony Stewart: 56 races with 8 wins (No wins in the 2005 Chase championship battle.) The Chase has 0 value. 994. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) Repeat post: "And after doing more research, Dave Marcis drove for 9 makes in his career (10 if you count Camaro apart from Chevrolet) (Chevrolet, Dodge, Ford, Plymouth, Camaro, which he drove in the race Bobby Allison drove a Mustang, which NASCAR doesn't count, Matador, Oldsmobile, Buick, Chrysler, Pontiac). I believe this is the record." Curtis Turner not only drove for 11 makes: Buick,Ford,T-Bird,Nash,Mercury,Plymouth,Pontiac,Hudson,Oldsmobile,Chevrolet and Lincoln,but he also won his 17 races with 9 different teams!! Curtis Turner was also 24-0 against Joe Weatherly in 1-2 finishes in the Convertible division. 995. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 11:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No offense, but isn't that like the fifteenth time you've amended that list, JG24? I like your choice for #1, though. 996. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No offense, but isn't that like the fifteenth time you've amended that list, JG24? I like your choice for #1, though." I'm wishy-washy. But not on #1. 997. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I know how you feel. You think you have the perfect list, then someone makes an excellent argument to have one driver over another, or you discover a fact about one driver that causes you to change your opinion of him, etc. 998. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 12:36 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) *Standing and clapping like the morons on CNBC do at the Morning Bell in anticipation of 1000 comments* 999. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 12:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One. 1000. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Thousand. 1001. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 07.20.2013 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One. Amazing how all of the Cup races since the Coke 600 have over 900 comments except the Pocono and Dover pages, which are below 600. And why was there an apparent spike beginning with the 600, is it because of the satirefest everyone talks about? That was a few weeks before I started commenting here so I don't know the specifics and I won't read through 1100 comments to find out. 1002. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was probably because the race was the longest one yet (including the red flag for the cable camera). 1003. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a completely different note, this is the best cartoon theme ever, and this is the same theme played on the piano (though it's not completely accurate, I LOVE how it sounds). Leave it to JG24FanForever to do that at one thousand comments. 1004. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *cable breaking* Whatever. Reading through last year's comment pages is fun. You should try it. We had some interesting conversations. 1005. JG24FanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 1:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Leave it to JG24FanForever to do that at one thousand comments." Yeah, what an idiot. 1006. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's all in fun, JG24. :) 1007. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Thanks for the love Nico! Haven't been here in a few days. Truth is I am trying to take this week off to really not think too much about modern NASCAR. This season has tested my patience with their "brain" trust and continued HMS bias. I am still smarting over the 48 no call. He fails inspection outright 3 times and gets nothing while Brad's team got hammered for "violating the spirit of the rules". When will it end? And it has been going on for so long. In 1990, Mark and the 6 team get docked 46 points for violating a confusing carb issue, then lose the Winston Cup to Earnhardt by only 26 points. Then, in 1995, Ray Evernham gets a record shattering fine when the 24 is caught with blatently illegal hubs that Evernham and Jeff still joke about to this day, but lose ZERO points. A record fine, isn't that worth at least 46 points? Jeff won the Winston Cup that year by 34 points over Earnhardt. Ever think maybe Jeff losing the '07 championship is karmic retribution for his '95 title? Just like Dale losing the '95 title on a points no call was karmic retribution for winning the '90 title on a controversial penalty (I know I always claim that penalty was the best thing that could happen to a Roush team, and I still believe that, but I can't prove it). But the thing is, these penalties ALWAYS fall HMS' way. And I have one final question for everyone: Let's say Rusty Wallace shows up to the 1997 Winston with the TRex car. Be honest, do you think NASCAR would say to them "you can run it this one time, but don't bring it back" or take it away instantly and hammer them? Again, be honest. 1008. cjs3872 posted: 07.20.2013 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) DSFF, the #24 team DID lose points for that wheel/hub infraction in the 1995 Coca-Cola 600. It's just that the points they lost were during the race, not as a result of any penalty afterwards. Actually, to fine them points after the fact would have been NASCAR's version of "double jeopardy", since the problem with the hub dropped them many laps down an back to a finishing position in the 30s. I think one reason NASCAR did not fine the team points has to do with the points the lost during he race as a result of the wheel coming off and the length repair they had to make as a result. Had they not had the problem and NASCAR still fond the illegal/unapproved wheel, they might have been fined points, but since they effectively took those points away from themselves during the Coca-Cola 600, NASCAR took no further action as far as taking away points is concerned. And who's to say that the last race or two would have played out he same way had they been given the "double jeopardy" points penalty, because they #24 team would have played it more conservatively at Charlotte and Atlanta at the end of the season. 1009. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're welcome, DSFF. Holy cow, I just proved that Lee Petty is a greater driver than Jimmie Johnson in a duel with The Stats King himself. 1010. cjs3872 posted: 07.20.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stats aren't everything NicoRosbergFan, though I do rank them (Jimmie Johnson and Lee Petty) fairly close on my list. However, much like DSFF, I give Johnson the edge here. If there's one thing that gives the drivers of the last 40 years an edge on those that dominated the first 20, it's the size and depth of the fields, which began to grow in the late 1970s. I have said that I might not have Richard Petty #1 on my list if it wasn't for the absolutely overwhelming statistics because when he dominated, the size and depth of the fields was not very good. The fields in the 60s and early-to-mid 70s were top-heavy, but there really wasn't much in terms of overall depth. It's just the opposite today. The fields have much more depth, but there are fewer truly great drivers than there have been in just about any other era, except possibly for NASCAR's first few years (1949-'57). 1011. murb posted: 07.20.2013 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If you guys want to hear some piss poor race commentary, you should flip on over to ESPN right now. They're showing that Global Rally-Cross series (at Bristol, believe it or not), and the racing is EPIC, yet Mike Massaro and whoever their girl analyst is are seriously putting me to sleep. No emotions by them whatsoever. Seriously though, this Rally-Cross series rules. The racing is just awesome. I guess I should just be happy that it's being televised in the first place. 1012. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh, I don't think DSFF ranks Johnson ahead of Lee Petty, cjs. Neither do I. In fact, I don't even rank Gordon ahead of Lee. He was the guy who built Petty Enterprises, paving the way for Richard to completely dominate the sport. And let's not forget he would have won the 1950 title, were it not for a bogus mid-season penalty. 1013. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, no cjs. They didn't "lose" those points in the '95 World 600, they "earned" minimal points that day due to their stupidity, and absolutely should have "earned" a double jeopardy penalty. Since NASCAR only caught those hubs cause a wheel fell off, exposing the illegal stuff to God and everyone, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they used them a time or two (or 10) earlier in the year. And when have "double jeopardy" penalties ever meant shit to NASCAR? Didn't Penske get a double jeopardy penalty by having to switch their setup one hour before race time at Texas, go to the back of the field, THEN get hammered later in the week? Hell, isn't that a "triple jeopardy" penalty. What about Mikey in 2007, being in negative points to start out due to double jeopardy penalties? Jeremy Mayfield in 2000 with the illegal gas (it was actually his mobile meth lab in the gas tank lol)? I could go on and on. The only ones who avoid the double jeopardy are HMS. What about Jeff's Daytona qualifier win when NASCAR sent him to the back of the field cause the car was too low in post race inspection after one of the famous HMS "parts failures" that magically make their cars go faster (think Vegas '05)? But he kept the win. And as for the 1995 argument that they would have played the end of the year differently, honestly, what happenes to a notoriously sluggish Fall racer when a charging, pre injury, Still The Intimidator is hot on their heels in points, which he never was in '95 until the very end and it didn't matter? Considering what happened in '96, what damn near happened in '97, what might have happened in '01 had RYR forgot how to build a damn race car, and what happened in '07 (despite the artificial close up in points, that title was still Jeff's to lose after Dega, all he had to do was keep finishing Top 5 like he had all year, but he didn't), who is your money on for that silver 25th anniversary Winston Cup trophy? Again, be honest. Speaking of honesty, I still wanna know if you think at The 1997 Winston, if Rusty had shown up with the TRex type car, would NASCAR have said "go ahead this week but don't bring it back"? Again, be honest. 1014. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The only ones who avoid the double jeopardy are HMS. What about Jeff's Daytona qualifier win when NASCAR sent him to the back of the field cause the car was too low in post race inspection after one of the famous HMS "parts failures" that magically make their cars go faster (think Vegas '05)? But he kept the win." Las Vegas 05... somehow in the middle of the race Jimmie and Shrub's cars both magically lost approximately 1 INCH of height... no penalties. DSFF, I'm going out on a limb here: 1995* 1997* 1998* 2001* 2006* 2007* 2008* 2009* 2010* 2013* Hell, Smokey Yunick was less of a cheater. 1015. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I definitely rank Lee ahead of Jimmie and Jeff. As pissed off as I am at HMS right now, I couldn't do an objective list right now. That is the shame for Jeff. One of the greatest, grittiest, most determined racers ever has that "Hendrick Cloud" over his head. That makes him hard to rank. Plus there is the fact that the category of racers I value the most, ability to close seasons, is his weakness. I call it "The Joe Montana Corrallary". Do you realize statistically, Joe isn't in the Top 10 in NFL history in passing yards, passing TDs, or QB rating despite a fairly long career? But C'Mon! It is the playoffs, you are down by 3 and there are 2 minutes left in the game. You are pinned way back. Who, in NFL history, do you want as your QB? It's Montana first, Elway second, and Cam Newton last. Isn't that what really matters? Hell, Peyton Manning CRUSHES Joe Cool statistically, yet the slobbering, Peyton jock sniffing football media won't even try to say Peyton is better than Joe. 1016. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) As for the 2007 title, if the seventh-place finishes at Atlanta and Texas and the tenth-place finish at Phoenix had all been thirds, Jeff would have still been 8 points short of the title. And that's not even taking into account that Jimmie and the #48 team would have made more of an effort at Homestead. 1017. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hendrick was caught cheating at least once (maybe twice?) in 2007. That's the point David. 1018. 83andJoe posted: 07.20.2013 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed on the RallyCross, Murb - that is some seriously good stuff. 1019. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good point David. But still, Jeff won Charlotte outright, putting so much pressure on Jimmie that he (surprise, surprise) lost it and wrecked late trying to press, then just beat him straight up at Dega. Then the 48 just took it to them from there. Just the number of times Jeff and his team have had their competition down and out in points seemingly, only to let them back in it in the end ('95, '96, '97, '07) is odd for a driver who closes single races as good as anyone ever. 1020. The Long Shot posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It was probably because the race was the longest one yet (including the red flag for the cable camera)." Not to mention that we were discussing the Monaco Grand Prix and the Indy 500, too. "On a completely different note, this is the best cartoon theme ever, and this is the same theme played on the piano (though it's not completely accurate, I LOVE how it sounds)." I hate to bore everybody with my music opinions, but here they are. In my opinion, these are the 10 best movie/TV show theme songs in history: 10. Great Escape (Elmer Bernstein) : Quite a short theme, but what it lacks in time, it makes up for in excellence. 9. Gettysburg (Randy Edelman) : My band played this song once, and it almost moved our band director to tears. It's a very dramatic piece, and a sentimental favorite of mine. 8. Fantasmic (Bruce Healey) : Disney doesn't write very many awesome theme songs, but this is an exception. 7. Indiana Jones (John Williams) : One of the most recognizable theme songs of all time. And what a surprise, it's composed by John Williams, and trumpets are the featured instrument. 6. Rocky (Bill Conti) : "Eye of the Tiger" has a killer drum beat, but the main theme is hard to beat, with its heavy featuring of trumpets and a great guitar solo. 4. The Olympics (John Williams) : The video linked is of a medley of Williams' Olympics pieces that I got to play twice with my band. Other than that, it's John Williams. Not much more to be said here, except that he's amazing. 3. Jurassic Park (John Williams) : John Williams is a musical genius, and this is just one example of it. As always in his pieces, trumpets and strings feature heavily. 2. The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings (Howard Shore) : This is maybe the perfect theme. A bass solo to start off, entering into the epic theme song "Misty Mountains", and eventually segueing into the beautiful "Lord of the Rings" theme. Then, there's this... 1. Star Wars (John Williams) : This ranks up there with "Spring" from the Four Seasons and the Moonlight Sonata as one of the most incredible pieces of music ever. I encourage you to listen to this with headphones, and see how many different parts you can discern at the very beginning (there are a LOT). And also, what's even more amazing is that this performance here is in a live concert. There. Hopefully some of you are still awake after having to endure that long of a post. I'm going to stop now before people start getting on my case for talking about something besides sports. 1021. The Long Shot posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *Sigh*. I completely forgot #5: The Pink Panther Theme (Henry Mancini). Enough said. Some kick-ass sax playing in that song. 1022. 83andJoe posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mention of the best cartoon theme ever, and no mention of Space Battleship Yamato - and on the best movie stores, no Back To The Future? For shame, for shame... 1023. The Long Shot posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I left out a lot. Back to the Future, Jaws, Titanic, Harry Potter, James Bond, and Mission: Impossible are some others that I like, to name a few. 1024. cjs3872 posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, if they don't run those illegal hubs at Charlotte, the wheel probably doesn't fall off. Jeff lost about 100 points (possibly even more) because they ran that illegal wheel, which in turn caused a fire in the right front, which actually caused the wheel to fly off, but if they don't run that hub, they don't have those problem and lose 100 points or more as a result. Jeff was about as big a favorite to win that race as any race I've ever watched. And you refer to what happened in the 2007 Daytona qualifying race, which he won. Jeff and the #24 team got a really stiff penalty for that "infraction", which even his fellow competitors don't think was intentional. The penalty was that he lost any chance he had to win that year's Daytona 500 by being moved to the rear for the start. To me, that's an incredibly stiff penalty, not to have a chance to win the sport's biggest race. And as far as I know, the situation with the Penske cars at Texas never resulted in any penalties until after the race, though they did lose their cars, which were impounded. And NicoRosbergFan, about the 2005 Las Vegas race, here's something interesting to look at, which may say something that those at the #24 team can hold their hats on. Hendrick Motorsports put three cars in the top five in that race, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch, and Jeff Gordon. Yet Gordon's car was the only one of the three that was found not to have the rear end too high (to make the front end lower). Jimmie's #48 and Kyle's #5 were found to have their rear ends too high, and both teams were substantially fined, and both crew chiefs were suspended, the later punishment later being rescinded. But Jeff's #24, which was also inspected as a top five finisher, was found to be legal, yet all three came from the same organization. And also DSFF, you mention about all the "cheating" that the HMS drivers have benefitted from. But at the same time, just think of how many of Junior Johnson's drivers benefitted from at least that kind of cheating over the years. That would include drivers such as Bobby Allison (he drove Junior's cars in 1972), Cale Yarborough (1973-'80), and Darrell Waltrip (1981-'86). Should we put a big cloud over their achievements because the legality of their cars were often questioned, and occasionally even proven? And a number of the teams Allison drove for were more than a bit shady when it came to the rulebook, including Johnson, DiGard Racing, and Mario Rossi's team. Heck, he even got caught in 1974 when he drove for Penske. 1025. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the Tom & Jerry theme song isn't the best cartoon theme song ever, then it's the theme song to the best cartoon ever. If you didn't like Tom & Jerry (the original Hanna-Barbera cartoons) as a kid, then you have no soul. :) 1026. The Long Shot posted: 07.20.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you didn't like Tom & Jerry (the original Hanna-Barbera cartoons) as a kid, then you have no soul. :)" I loved Tom & Jerry. I think I watched every single cartoon, which was a bit difficult considering Cartoon Newtwork (or Boomerang, whichever) often played the same ones again and again. I also was/am a big fan of The Flintstones. The show's not so grown-up that kids can't watch it, and yet it's also not so kid-oriented that adults can't enjoy it, either. 1027. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "And also DSFF, you mention about all the "cheating" that the HMS drivers have benefitted from. But at the same time, just think of how many of Junior Johnson's drivers benefitted from at least that kind of cheating over the years. That would include drivers such as Bobby Allison (he drove Junior's cars in 1972), Cale Yarborough (1973-'80), and Darrell Waltrip (1981-'86). Should we put a big cloud over their achievements because the legality of their cars were often questioned, and occasionally even proven? And a number of the teams Allison drove for were more than a bit shady when it came to the rulebook, including Johnson, DiGard Racing, and Mario Rossi's team. Heck, he even got caught in 1974 when he drove for Penske. " Meaningless because Junior, DiGard, Rossi, Petty, and Penske in the 70s-80s combined got caught fewer times than Chad alone never mind all of Hendrick 1028. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I'll say it again now. Trucks on Dirt will be bad in some way, shape, or form. I know that no one will agree with me, but I said it on here when it was first announced, and I'm sticking with it. Yes I'll be land-blasted insanely for it, but It's already been posted." 'Please elaborate. Do you mean bad as in "awful racing" bad, bad as in "wreck-fest" bad, or bad as in "dangerous" bad?' ^ All three. Mainly 'wreck fest' bad. Probably half the starters will not be able to find the balance between dirt tracking and the way the trucks are set up, amking for constant crashes, spins, and people not able to properly avoid accidents ahead of them. Not to mention, having that much dirt and crap getting into the engines, which are set up normally for paved-track racing...not pretty. Secondly will be the 'dangerous' bad. Dust inhilation will be terrible. Anyone in the stands with Asthma might as well be shipped to the morgue. So just think, WHAT is a driver going to be going through? And let me state again, those truck engines are built primarily for speed. Yes, I know Martinsville, a great Truck stop, is not a speed track, but the same trucks you take to Martinsville could still crank 120 easily on a normal 'road' highway given the pavement is even enough. If you take a car/truck/etc that is built that close to the ground for that kind of speed, and plow it through the dirt, yep. And to both points, don't the trucks still have that front splitter thing. Forget all those instances where the splitters on the Cup and Nwide cars bust, we'll see truck splitters shearing off consistently. To a much lesser extent, racing bad. I bet only about 20 drivers total will be able to figure out how to handle the trucks, and many of them will get caught up in other people's mess. There will probably be plenty of interesting racing up front, but coupling engine issues, dust inhalation issues, and people getting caught up in other's misfortunes and lack-of-dirt-driving-abilities, there will only be about 4-6 drivers consistently racing for the lead. That will make for good racing, yes, but it could be better racing for numerous reasons. - - - - - Even though I disagree with a lot of what he says, Destroyah (I'm pretty sure that's the correct abbreviation; Destroyah-iris-mix-666) ^ Don't worry David. I go by all sorts of things. DIM666, DIM, Destroya, Destoryah, Insane Leader, Insane guy, etc. I don't really care what you call me, by the response I can usually tell who you were talking about. - - - - - 1029. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talladega came /before/ Charlotte in 2007, DSFF. Personally, I like the James Bond theme, Long Shot, including the "Skyfall" theme for the latest movie. But I totally agree with your #1. 1030. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) 1025. David posted: If the Tom & Jerry theme song isn't the best cartoon theme song ever, then it's the theme song to the best cartoon ever. If you didn't like Tom & Jerry (the original Hanna-Barbera cartoons) as a kid, then you have no soul. :) ^ I have no soul then. - - - - - I honstly can't discredit Jimmie and Chad/Jeff and Ray any more Then Richard and all of Petty Enterprises, Allison and Junior Johnson, and anything with the Wood Brothers. As clever as these guys were, I have a little less respect for all of them running around the rules. The Difference is that then it was a bit easier to get around the rules, so we don't see as many infractions. Now we have people who know the 'tricks' as to how to cheat, so these guys are getting caught more. *Full-blown example coming up. Some may be offended* However, if, for instance, I have 79 popularity points, cjs has 89 popularity points, and DSFF has 91 popularity points, but something occurs that snares all three of us *take your pick*, we all lose roughly the same amount of popularity points. However, DSFF and cjs will still *more then likely* have more popularity points then me. That's how I veiw all of the legends in personal opinions. I don't really like Junior Johnson, for instance. I'm glad how he helped start the sport out in his own ways, but for god's sake, I can not get over how badly he violated the rules in so many ways over the years. Also, quick question: Any of you believe that Alllison wins the 1982 500 without Bumpergate? 1031. 83andJoe posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) >Secondly will be the 'dangerous' bad. Dust inhilation will be terrible. Anyone in the stands with Asthma might as well be shipped to the morgue. So just think, WHAT is a driver going to be going through? ...you've never been to a dirt track race or seen one have you? 1032. murb posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "And to both points, don't the trucks still have that front splitter thing. Forget all those instances where the splitters on the Cup and Nwide cars bust, we'll see truck splitters shearing off consistently." They aren't running splitters at Eldora. 1033. Schroeder51 posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh...I have asthma and I've been to dirt track races...I never really had THAT much of a problem. I think you're overexaggerating it just a bit. 1034. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Am I the only one who foresees a truck actually flipping over at Eldora? I think Bobby Allison would have won the 500 in 1982 without Bumpergate. 1035. Baker posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I personally feel like Lee Petty is overrated. Before I get chewed out let me say it is for one reason and one reason only. Herb Thomas. It all goes back to the ZERO respect Herb gets as one of the greatest talents to ever set foot in a stock car. Herb Thomas would drive circles around Petty and won more when the pressure was at its highest. He is a 3 time champion(or even more) who had it stolen by a cheap shot. In the years they raced together Herb has 44 wins to Petty's 23. Lee Petty is a legend and pioneer of the sport, but until Herb starts getting the recognition he is due then I will always feel Petty is overrated. 1036. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The best movie score ever was the music from The Good The Bad And The Ugly, hands down imo, highlighted by the goosebump raising Ecstasy Of Gold. Metallica has used that as their concert intro for 25 years. That has to count for something. 1037. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If this was a dirt track race in the '50s, then we would have cause to worry about the asthmatics. 1038. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 9:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's just assume for a second that the hubs in '95 were indeed another one of HMS' famous "illegal performance disadvantages" (I don't buy it for one second, but we'll assume this is the case for this argument) they were still very illegal, and just because they used them incorrectly and it blew up in their faces, this has never been a factor for NASCAR except when it comes to HMS. I also have Herb ranked ahead of Lee, but not by a whole lot. Herb is criminally underrated. I don't think BumperGate helped Bobby all that much. He laid it on them that day, and as crude as the aero on those shoeboxes were back then, I can't imagine one less bumper meaning much. As for famous cheaters, you have to seperate pre and post 1991, when NASCAR made it clear "creative engineering" was no longer a fun cat and mouse game, but serious business. 1039. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Guys, I think some of you are way too afraid, irrationally, of going to races. I have been going to races for the past 23 years, sucking in fumes and second hand cigarette smoke, oil smoke (the Kurt Busch incident at Martinsville in 2003 killed every mosquito in Southern Virginia and Northern NC) and only wearing earplugs at the North Wilkesboro races, and sitting in the brutal sun for 6 to 8 hours at a time, and sitting in traffic for hours, and getting eaten alive by bugs at night races, and driving or riding in traffic filled with drunk drivers, and breathing the same air as folks whose blood content is 87% moonshine, and I am fine. They are some of my most cherished childhood memories and something I still get excited for in a child like way to this day. Like those internet memes say, Relax And Go To A Race. 1040. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" was a great movie, even though it dragged on forever took a while to watch. Nice to see it getting a mention. Hmmm, I might have to reconsider Lee Petty's place ahead of Herb Thomas on my all-time list. Baker makes some really good points. 1041. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Me? No way. I've been to three, all at Kansas Speedway. I do hope to go to Talladega someday. Actually, I could go to Iowa Speedway. That would be fun. 1042. DB1995 posted: 07.20.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone here like "East Bound and Down" the theme to my favorite movie of all time "Smokey and the Bandit"? Almost everyone i know around here cherishes that movie as a precious memory, We have even watched it at school on free days. Once we watched it in music class my Sophomore year because it had Jerry Reed's music in it, Mrs. Solomons excuse for not wanting to teach, but she turned it off when they said " it must be a bitch finding a suit size 38 extra fat and 12 dwarf", But seriously does anyone here like this movie? 1043. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.20.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, have you ever sat through a rain delay at a race? Not too much fun either. 1044. cjs3872 posted: 07.20.2013 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, as anyone who remember my blog postings of the top 40 all-time earlier this year would know, I rank Herb Thomas #2 among those from NASCAR's first generation behind only Junior Johnson, so I don't underrate Thomas at all. I have him #10 on my list overall, behind Junior Johnson and the top eight on the win list. And while I think Allison might have won the 1982 Daytona 500, regardless of losing the rear bumper, it certainly gave him a big advantage in terms of speed on the straightaway because of the significant loss of drag, which gave him better top-end speed. Allison not having a rear bumper could also have had an adverse impact on Dale Earnhardt's day had he not burned a piston (from running out of fuel) because Allison hit something on the track at one point and that object actually broke the windshield on Earnhardt's car. Had the rear bumper been there, it's believed that piece of debris would not have struck Earnhardt's car. But while losing the rear bumper probably didn't affect who won the race, it certainly appeared to give Allison's car a significant boost in performance, enough so that his rivals believed his team did it intentionally. In fact, on the broadcast of the 2001 Daytona 500, Darrell Waltrip said that Allison and Gary Nelson "dropped" the rear bumper, meaning he still believed they did it intentionally nearly 20 years after the fact. And the reduction in drag caused by the loss of the rear bumper also appeared to have an effect on his fuel mileage, because that significantly increased, to where he could go a full 100 miles on a tank without drafting, which was virtually impossible back then. So the loss of the rear bumper increased not only the speed of the car, but the mileage, as well. 1045. The Long Shot posted: 07.20.2013 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Personally, I like the James Bond theme, Long Shot, including the "Skyfall" theme for the latest movie." The Bond theme's pretty good. It's not my favorite, but it's good. "But I totally agree with your #1." Thought you would. "The best movie score ever was the music from The Good The Bad And The Ugly, hands down imo, highlighted by the goosebump raising Ecstasy Of Gold. Metallica has used that as their concert intro for 25 years. That has to count for something." I've never seen the movie, but I have heard the music, and it's pretty decent. The main theme (I'll assume it's "Ecstasy of Gold") really is the perfect music for any sort of Western. "Anyone here like "East Bound and Down" the theme to my favorite movie of all time "Smokey and the Bandit"?" Oh yeah. That's one of my favorite country songs. "Mainly 'wreck fest' bad. Probably half the starters will not be able to find the balance between dirt tracking and the way the trucks are set up, amking for constant crashes, spins, and people not able to properly avoid accidents ahead of them. Not to mention, having that much dirt and crap getting into the engines, which are set up normally for paved-track racing...not pretty." I do agree that Eldora is going to be a huge crash-fest. I'm pretty sure that more than half the drivers attempting the race have little to no dirt track experience, which will make things, um, interesting to say the least. Nevertheless, I am still really excited for Wednesday night. Should be lots of fun. "Secondly will be the 'dangerous' bad. Dust inhilation will be terrible. Anyone in the stands with Asthma might as well be shipped to the morgue. So just think, WHAT is a driver going to be going through?" It depends on how severe someone's asthma is, If someone has severe asthma, going to a dirt track wouldn't exactly be the wisest idea in the world. If someone has mild asthma, they should be OK if they take an inhaler with them. "Am I the only one who foresees a truck actually flipping over at Eldora?" I don't see it happening, but you never know. Stranger things have happened. 1046. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.20.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, can you possibly make a list of all the races you've attended in 23 years? 1047. murb posted: 07.20.2013 - 11:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, Eldora probably will be a bit of a crashfest. I'm guessing there will be at least 15 or so unassisted spins. I've watched a few of the Prelude To The Dream races over the years, and every year most of the Nascar guys with no dirt experience struggled like hell. So yeah, I'm sure it will be a bit of a wreckfest, but I think/hope the good racing and the crazy sight of seeing Trucks on a dirt track will more than make up for it. 1048. murb posted: 07.20.2013 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, can you possibly make a list of all the races you've attended in 23 years?" I could be wrong, but I think he did a while back. I think it was earlier this year at one of the ones he went to. So maybe try the Martinsville or Darlington page. 1049. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 11:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SpeedWorld97, I sat through the entire 1997 Coca Cola "500" that ended at like 2am. I actually enjoyed it. Me and Dad just sat around, shot the bull, and laughed at all the drunks (ddue to the rain, the bleachers were wet, and people kept slippping on their asses. There was also this big truck they kept sending around the track to help dry it, and we'd do the wave everytime it passed. One that wasn't fun was the '08 Spring Martinsville race. It was 35 degrees and sprinkling rain the whole time, only the track is so small and the cars generate so much heat, the track was never affected. That was a lot of shivering. 1050. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.20.2013 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I went to all but 2 or 3 of the races at Wilkesboro from '90-'96 including the Monday caution free race in '92 (the last caution free short track race) and the '94 race where Bodine lapped the field. You will never see either of those again ever. I wasn't at the last race there, and for the life of me I can't remember why. But I was at the one where Gordon caught on fire. Been to every Martinsville race from Fall '02 to present except Spring '10 (the rain delay killed me cause I had to work the next day) and Spring '12 (couldn't get out of work). Been to the '98, '12, and '13 Southern 500s Went to the Fall '91 Rockingham race Went to a few Fall Charlotte races in the early 90s, and the World 600 in '93, '95-'99, '01, '04-'06 plus the Fall '04 race there. 1051. The Long Shot posted: 07.20.2013 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I've went to...absolutely no races. :( 1052. DB1995 posted: 07.20.2013 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought of another reason to not count Brad Keselowski out, in 2011 he was 23rd in points with 4 top 10's then went on the "Summer of Brad" tear. 1053. David posted: 07.20.2013 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Follow-up to post #1041: Specifically, I was at the track for both Nationwide and Cup in 2010, and I attended the Nationwide race last fall. 1054. murb posted: 07.21.2013 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only race I've come close to attending was the 2004 Fontana race. I lived in California at the time, so we planned to go, but for some reason we ended up not going. It's too bad because it was actually a pretty good race at the time by Fontana standards. 1055. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.21.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Funny you mention the 1997 Coca-Cola 600, DSFF, because I watched the entire race a few weeks ago and saw that amazing four wide pass by Earnhardt down the backstretch. Very neat to hear about attending those North Wilkesboro races. Every year, my dad and I head from Pennsylvania to Charlotte to the 600 and the last two years we stopped at North Wilkesboro, which very sadly appears in bad shape now. Last year we met with this one older man who was so hospitable that he let us not only view the track from the grandstands, but let me stand in the flagstand, walk across the frontstretch and pit road, and stand in the victory lane. It gave me chills thinking of all the great moments that track had. Also, the guy led us into the storage shed by the ticket gates and showed us many different signs, banners used at the track when Winston Cup raced there (like a Tyson Holly Farms sign and a Pontiac banner). These are the races I've been to (and ironically Jimmie Johnson has never won a race I've attended): 2009 Richmond Cup Fall (I was excited when I found out Kyle Busch missed the chase) 2010 Richmond Cup Spring (was so angry when Gordon lost it there in the end) 2010 Charlotte Nationwide Fall 2010 Charlotte Cup Fall 2011 Charlotte Nationwide Spring (temps reached 95 degrees during that race) 2011 Charlotte Cup Spring (I thought there was going to be a riot after that one) 2012 Charlotte Nationwide Spring 2012 Charlotte Cup Spring 2012 Mid-Ohio IndyCar (was a really fun one to attend despite a heavy morning rainshower) 2013 Charlotte Nationwide Spring (probably the worst Nationwide race I've been to so far) 2013 Charlotte Cup Spring (I witnessed the cable snap and could not believe it affected the race the way it did) Next month, I will be going to the Mid-Ohio IndyCar race and the inaugural Nationwide race at Mid-Ohio. I wish I could go to the inaugural New Jersey F1 GP next June, but their ticket prices are just outrageous ($350 just for general admission, some seats cost $1250!!!) DSFF, even though I've gone to all these races, I am just in amazement that you were able to go to all those races throughout the 90s. You are lucky to have been able to witnesses great moments from that time. 1056. 18fan posted: 07.21.2013 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Races I've been to: 2008 fall Phoenix (Jimmie Johnson dominated, guy in a Tony Stewart shirt flipped Jimmie off on the cooldown lap) 2009 fall California (Jimmie dominated again, Denny Hamlin cut across JPM's nose and wrecked himself on a restart while leading right in front of me. Bad part was Kyle had to get out of his car because he had the flu) 2010 fall California (First 400 mile race at California, last October race there. Much better race than the previous one I was at, only downer was that Kyle blew up right in front of me) 2011 California (Never rooted for Kevin Harvick more than I did when he beat Jimmie) 2012 California (I had one eye on the track and one eye on the clouds the entire race before it rained) 2013 California (Best race of the season, best race I've been to. Kyle winning was just an added bonus. Plus Tony going after Logano on pit road happened right in front of me. Also the only race I've been to where the 48 was uncompetitive) 1057. 18fan posted: 07.21.2013 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I drove by the old Saugus Speedway, the site of Kenny Schrader's win in the slowest race in Truck series history in 1995, a couple weeks ago. It closed a couple months after that race and it is cool to see that the walls look like they have not been touched since '95. The walls are still Winston red and white and have the truck series logo from the inaugural season still on there, as well as the logos from the Winston West series. It's parking lot is now used for large swap meets, but the track sits there and is still in decent shape and can be seen from the street. 1058. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.21.2013 - 1:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "...and laughed at all the drunks (ddue to the rain, the bleachers were wet, and people kept slippping on their asses." Lol, I would have paid to see something like that. I remember back at the 2011 600, this group of 25 year olds occupied the seats in the row in front of me and they spent the whole race passing around a roasted turkey leg (which they were sharing with each other), smoking about two packs of cigarettes every 100 laps during which the smoke blew into my face, and giving each other the middle-finger salute everytime something happened to their favorite driver during the race. 1059. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.21.2013 - 1:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, I actually think Saugus hosts a weekly free market now, too. 1060. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.21.2013 - 2:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My phone is teasing me. It should have obviously read "flea market." 1061. 83andJoe posted: 07.21.2013 - 6:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >I wish I could go to the inaugural New Jersey F1 GP next June, but their ticket prices are just outrageous ($350 just for general admission, some seats cost $1250!!!) This is because Bernie the Great (who makes Rick Hendrick look like an absolute saint) has stated that fans in the stands are irrelvant; he'd run F1 in front of an empty house if need be, because the TV money pays the bills. ALL of the bills. And then some. 1062. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 07.21.2013 - 7:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, I stumbled across this gem of a song today. I hadn't heard it in a few years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z63dPw5Yo5g 1063. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.21.2013 - 7:08 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I had the chance in 2010 to go to the PASS late model and unsanctioned modified races at North Wilkesboro when it was briefly reopened. It is in need of repair, but I must say, to just be sitting there for 15+ years, it wasn't as bad as I expected. To get a Truck race there (my ultimate hope for the little track that could) they will need to make about $2-3 million in upgrades. Hopefully somebody can buy it and get it hosting lower level races like Rockingham does now. And yes, I count myself very fortunate to have been to those races, especially all the early 90s races which I consider part of NASCAR's greatest era. The people I got to see race live (including Richard Petty) were a true blessing. 1064. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.21.2013 - 7:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Drunk people watching used to be half the fun of going to races. Then it became JoonYerr Nation watching, as they cheer like hell when he passes ANYONE, then give the bird to anyone who passes him. Trainwreck trailer trash TV, only live! But recently, as I have mentioned quite graphically, girl watching has been just spectacular. 1065. joey2448 posted: 07.21.2013 - 8:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be at Indianapolis next week, and I'm hoping it's a hot ass day, so the girls at the track will be on full display. If it's anything like DSFF described at Martinsville back in the spring, I'm in for a treat! 1066. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.21.2013 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come on Lefty! Win one for us left-handed golfers! 1067. The Long Shot posted: 07.21.2013 - 12:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Austin Dillon's Nationwide pole streak has come to an end as Sam Hornish wins the Nationwide pole at Chicagoland. Top 10 is Hornish, Sadler, Dillon, Crafton, Pastrana, Vickers, Logano, Bayne, Scott, and Kligerman. The lone DNQ was Tim Schendel in the Curtis Key #46 after Morgan Shepherd withdrew from the entry list on Saturday. 1068. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.21.2013 - 12:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Dillon's oval pole streak ended last week at New Hampshire when Kyle Busch won the pole there. 1069. The Long Shot posted: 07.21.2013 - 12:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, but...nothing. Curse me for not getting my facts straight. 1070. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.21.2013 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Score for Lefty! You've earned it man. 1071. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.21.2013 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, you're a lefty, because I am too. 1072. cjs3872 posted: 07.21.2013 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not only that, but unlike that "other" golfer (Tiger Woods), Phil's actually a good human being who seems to care about the fans. Tiger's accomplishments may link him closer to Jack Nicklaus in that regard, but the way Phil goes about his business and his overall respect for the game, well as the fans, makes him someone that the fans and the old-time players seems to respect more because of his humble attitude, and when he won the British Open, I think you could see that by the way others congratulated him, and I think it may be an even greater moment if Phil finally win the U.S. Open and completes the career Grand Slam than t was when Tiger did it in 2000, because the other players have a genuine like and respect for Mickelson, which Phil has earned over the years by respecting the game and the other competitors. That's why many consider Phil Mickelson a far better ambassador for golf than Tiger will ever be. Because he actually respects the game, the fans, and the other competitors a way Tiger never has throughout his career. I just hope he can one day ascend to the #1 spot in the world rankings and eventually win a U.S. Open, the two things he has never done in his career. 1073. rtcrules posted: 07.21.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) -993 Richard Petty: 277 races with 93 wins -33.5% Dale Earnhardt: 208 races with 44 wins - 21.1% Jimmie Johnson: 50 races with 13 wins (this is lame.) - 26% Jeff Gordon: 132 races with 36 wins - 27.2% Lee Petty: 126 races with 25 wins - 19.8% David Pearson: 142 races with 42 wins - 29.5% Cale Yarborough: 90 races with 28 wins - 31.1% Darrell Waltrip: 89 races with 27 wins (nearly identical to Cale.) - 30.3% Tony Stewart: 56 races with 8 wins (No wins in the 2005 Chase championship battle.) - 14.2% So Jimmie Johnson is getting it done at nearly the same rate as some of the greats. So I wouldn't call that lame. The Chase is lame. It's just another awful gimmick in the gimmick era of NASCAR. But I wouldn't hold that against the 48 team when they have made the most out of the situation. 1074. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.21.2013 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, a noted choke artist brought home another major. Congrats to Phil. As for lefties, I write left handed, but throw right handed. I'm amphibious :) Now will somebody answer my question. If Roger Penske, or Jack Roush, or Robert Yates, or Morgan McClure, or any other owner besides Rick Hendrick had a team bring a car to a race that violated every "spirit of the rule" there was, but was technically still legal (something I have serious doubts about btw) would NASCAR let them race it? 1075. cjs3872 posted: 07.21.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course they would have to, DSFF. If there's nothing actually illegal or non-conforming, they, in theory, would have no choice but to let them race it. And by the way, it's ambidextrous, no amphibious. 1076. The Long Shot posted: 07.21.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're amphibious, DSFF? Wow, you are talented. 1077. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.21.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs when you see that smile ( :) ) after one of my comments, it means I'm joking. Haven't you heard that joke before? About being amphibious? As for the smile, I will demonstrate by posing one joke statement followed by a smile ( :) ) then a true statement with no smile. In 1999, Earnhardt won the Bristol Night Race with a clean last lap pass :) In 1995, Earnhardt became the first man to win the Brickyard 400 See how that works. By the way, only an HMS team would get a nod and a wink and a "you got us this time, now don't bring that car back" from NASCAR. Any other team would have got hammered. 1078. The Long Shot posted: 07.21.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'll demonstrate a few others: Steve Wallace is a talented NASCAR driver. :D Danica Patrick is a talented NASCAR driver. XD John Wes Townley doesn't crash very often. XD *rolling on the floor laughing* 1079. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.21.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^lol 1080. cjs3872 posted: 07.21.2013 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually DSFF, Hendrick Motorsports was so afraid of the T-Rex car being banned before it got to the All-Star race in 1997, that they actually brought in Gary Nelson just to check over the legalities of the car, and Nelson, NASCAR's top inspector at the time, deemed everything they were doing legal. But he was also in contact with NASCAR's top brass, trying to see to it that such a car would never be allowed again, but it was legal when it was built. And for those that follow the history of the sport, as I do, the fact that it came on the 30th anniversary of perhaps the most infamous car ever to race, Andy Granatelli's STP Turbine that dominated the 1967 Indianapolis 500, should certainly have some irony. Granatelli was so afraid that the USAC officials would ban the turbine car that he had Parnelli Jones sandbag in practice and qualifying (which both Andy and Parnelli deny to this day), and Jones qualified sixth, the worst of his seven Indy starts. But the car, which also was a 4WD car, had such a handling advantage that it took the lead from Mario Andretti in half a lap, and obliterated the field before a gearbox bearing broke, which Granatelli predicted would break, knocking out of the race four laps from victory. After that little episode, USAC forced several modifications to turbine engines that they became obsolete by 1969, because they would have clearly made the regular engines obsolete. That's exactly what the T-Rex car would have done to all the chassis running at the time, made them obsolete, so NASCAR made rules after the All-Star Race that effectively banned that chassis. So in a way, the T-Rex car was NASCAR's version of the turbine car. But it was also one of the best examples of using innovation to get around stuff in the rulebook, while at the same time, building a car that was perfectly legal when it raced. (Why does this come up as NASCAR gets ready to go to Indy?) Ray Evernham and his guys did a brilliant job of building a car that got around the rules, but was perfectly legal, something that Chad Knaus doesn't have hardly ay knowledge of how to do, because he just blatantly cheats, instead of innovating ways to get around the rulebook, while building a car that's perfectly legal, as Evernham did in that case. 1081. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.21.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Actually, it was A. J. Foyt who correctly predicted what part would break on the car on the Tuesday morning they restarted the race. 1082. cjs3872 posted: 07.21.2013 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Granatelli also predicted that part would break, NicoRosbergFan. While it was being built, Granatelli told the person that built that transmission that it would not last 500 miles because of the strain. Unfortunately for Andy, he ended up being right about that. We know Foyt predicted the part would break, but Granateli also told the those that built the car that the gearbox would not last 500 miles. Actually, it might have lasted the entire race if not for the fact that more than one-third of the race distance was run under caution for wrecks and rain, because the car actually broke while the race was under caution. Of course, they didn't slow down very much under caution back then, but more than an hour of that race was run under caution, which was a lot back then. 1083. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.21.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) And had it been any other car besides a Hendrick car, Nelson would have said "no way in hell". 1084. startandparkfan posted: 07.21.2013 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hearing that Joe Shear Jr. has resigned from his crew chief duty with Sauter in the trucks. 1085. murb posted: 07.21.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hearing that Joe Shear Jr. has resigned from his crew chief duty with Sauter in the trucks." Well, there goes Sauter's championship. 1086. David posted: 07.21.2013 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can throw a frisbee left-handed. Pretty well, I might add. 1087. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.22.2013 - 6:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I play golf (ok, Wii Golf) and hockey both left-handed. I can also eat with my left hand just as well as I eat with my right. 1088. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.22.2013 - 6:44 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Two days until the biggest laughingstock since Steven Wallace at Circuit Gilles Villeneuve! 1089. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.22.2013 - 8:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I write and eat left handed, but any throwing I do is with my right hand/arm. I am amphibious ambidextrous. 1090. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.22.2013 - 9:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I write and eat left handed, but any throwing I do is with my right hand/arm. I am amphibious ambidextrous." DSFF's a Gorn. 1091. Scott B posted: 07.22.2013 - 11:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Expect the sale of the James Finch team to start the silly season dominoes falling when the chase begins. With Justin Allgaier in that car for the last 10 races of 2013, I'd expect the #47 team to pull the trigger on the A.J. Allmendinger/Bobby Labonte change early. It would give A.J. a chance to settle in, and keep any other teams that might be sniffing around from signing him. That might mean Bobby missing more races this season, though I'd expect him to have offers by the time Daytona rolls around. He does have his past champion's provisional in his pocket, always helpful with the Speedweeks qualifying races. It'll be interesting to see what kind of interest there is in signing him, I don't really see any one team that stands out as the most likely destination yet. 1092. murb posted: 07.22.2013 - 2:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I can tie my shoes and play the drums left handed, but I play guitar and bass and write and do pretty much everything else right handed. I guess I'm "amphibious" too. 1093. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.22.2013 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^lol 1094. David posted: 07.22.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I play the piano with my left hand. I also play it with my right hand, too. *rimshot* 1095. David posted: 07.22.2013 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *is promptly booed off stage* 1096. 83andJoe posted: 07.22.2013 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Brickyard entry list is out. 45 cars: -Bayne in the 21 -Timmy Hill in the 32 -Austin Dillon in the 33 -Cassill in the 40, a second Circle Sport car in collaboration with Mike Hillman -AJ in the 51 -Scott Speed in the 95 Bliss and Cassill are outside-looking-in on provisionals. 1097. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.22.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently ESPN is trying to kiss Brian France's feet based on the article up on there. 1098. Scott B posted: 07.22.2013 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) BTW another amphibian here. Write lefty, throw lefty, play guitar and bass right handed, shoot a hockey puck right handed (but can tend goal left handed), bat a baseball righty but can switch. Essentially, I'm naturally more left-handed. Anything that requires special sports or music gear, though, I've pretty much learned right-handed just because of the ease of finding the equipment. 1099. murb posted: 07.22.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anything that requires special sports or music gear, though, I've pretty much learned right-handed just because of the ease of finding the equipment." Yep, I know a few lefty guitar players who are always having trouble finding lefty guitars. I bet it's a major pain. 1100. Jim Davis posted: 07.22.2013 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Amusing stuff if you haven't heard it already. The Patrick haters will get a few chuckles. http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/shakeandbake/cussin-is-racing-best-in-car-audio-from-2013-so-far-072013 1101. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.22.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Hey David, ever hear the story about the magician who brought out a tiny piano and the pulled out a 12 inch pianist on stage in front of everyone? 1102. David posted: 07.22.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No. How does it go? 1103. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.22.2013 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) He played a short piece. 1104. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.22.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Exactly Nico! Jim Davis, that is a great link. That just shows you how the real drivers have no respect for The Baroness as a driver. And why should they? 1105. Jim Davis posted: 07.22.2013 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That just shows you how the real drivers have no respect for The Baroness as a driver." Keep in mind that a few years ago a number of the "real drivers" were saying that about Keselowski - and actually following through on threats to dump him. Now, I'm not suggesting Patrick is going to win the championship in a few years or anything but attitudes can and do change over time. Fellow drivers *can* be won over. 1106. 83andJoe posted: 07.22.2013 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of Keselowski, he finished third in a 250-lap race at Riverside International Speedway in Nova Scotia on Saturday night. 1107. ch posted: 07.22.2013 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) GREAT LINK! My favorite is from Kenseth: "Line up behind the ten? She's on the lead lap, oh my gosh! Alright...." 1108. David posted: 07.22.2013 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Biffle seemed to be really mad at someone during those clips. 1109. BON GORDON posted: 07.23.2013 - 12:51 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Excited for this weeks Brickyard 400. Yeah the race itself isn't the best but just to see racing at this track gives me goose bumps. I predicted earlier in the year that this will be Jeff Gordon's race. While he's struggled overall this year and doesn't seem to have speed he always seems to manage a great finish at the Brickyard. I think he gets the job done to win his 20th Crown Jewel race (most all-time). In my opinion this race, the Daytona 500, Southern 500, Aaron's 499 and the Coke 600 are Crown Jewel events. 1110. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I still say the Spring Dega race was only a big deal when it was the Winston 500, sponsored by the Series sponsor, and the second Dega race was in the brutal July heat meaning the Spring race was significantly faster. And this is a Brad fan saying this, he has won the Aaron's 499 twice. Besides, having it as a crown jewel along with the Daytona 500, a very similar race, is redundant. To me, there was the "Triple Crown" forever, (Daytona 500, World 600, and the Southern 500) which became a "Grand Slam" beginning in '94 with the edition of Indy, even if it has been boring as hell from '95 to present. Which leads us to the fact that each of the Grand Slams have issues compared to their heyday. The Daytona 500 is a plate race, which allows a bum like Michael Waltrip to be a 2 time winner. Plate racing is not a good indicator of talent (see Patrick, Danica 2013). The 600 is just another cookie cutter race for the most part. The Southern 500 is now held at night on Mother's Day weekend, and while 500 miles at Darlington is 500 miles at Darlington no matter how you slice it, to me, it only has about 80% of the significance it once had on Labor Day weekend with the conditions which were hellish. And the Brickyard 400 is simply a sorry excuse for a race. 1111. Mr X posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) That made my day Jim Davis. Thanks 1112. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just read that RCR has sponsorship for their third team (probably with Austin Dillon) and partial sponsorship for a fourth team. So it will be interesting to see who they try and go after to drive their fourth car. 1113. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DaleSrFanForever posted: Hey David, ever hear the story about the magician who brought out a tiny piano and the pulled out a 12 inch pianist on stage in front of everyone? David posted: No. How does it go? NicoRosbergFan posted: He played a short piece. " "He played a short piece.": Honestly, I just came up with what I thought would be the corniest punch line to the joke. 1114. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.23.2013 - 7:06 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) The Kenseth clip was totally priceless. Jim, what I mean is they have no respect for her ability to just drive the car, period! Their issues with Brad a few years back was what perceived as being too over aggressive (the truth is he simply refused to roll over and play dead for the "Cup Superstars"). I don't think anyone questioned his ability to, as one driver in your clip put it, "just drive the car straight". Denny did question his Cup level talent once in 2009, ironic considering Denny had the 48 down and seemingly out the next year after Texas only to choke his guts out in an epic meltdown to end all epic meltdowns lose in the end. Two years after that, Brad himself had a soul cruching loss to the 48 at Texas only to turn the tables and cause Chad and Jimmie to wilt under pressure while Brad and Paul stayed cooler than cool (but not cooler than Joe Cool, nobody is that cool) to win the title. Now Denny's anything but prophetic quote lives in YouTube infamy, much like his anything but prophetic quote after Bristol this year about not having to worry about Lozano at California. What a dope Denny is. 1115. Ryan posted: 07.23.2013 - 12:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) BIG NASCAR TV NEWS: ESPN and TNT are done after next year, NBC is coming back 1116. AveryNH posted: 07.23.2013 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also read on twitter that Fox and Nbc will be sharing the Nationwide series. I fully expect a handful of races on NbcSN and Fox sports1. Press conference scheduled for 3 pm eastern 1117. JRacingFast posted: 07.23.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/SB-Blogs/On-The-Ground/2013/07/NASCAR-ESPN-Turner-Fox-NBC-rights.aspx ESPN AND TNT ARE GONE!!!! NBC IS COMING BACK!! 1118. Jack posted: 07.23.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reports are ESPN and TNT have lost the rights to NASCAR for 2015 and beyond. NBC has supposedly picked up the second half of both the Cup and Nationwide Series. NASCAR is supposed to have a press conference today. http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/SB-Blogs/On-The-Ground/2013/07/NASCAR-ESPN-Turner-Fox-NBC-rights.aspx Here is the original report. 1119. Ryan posted: 07.23.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NBC is back, ESPN and Turner are out: http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/SB-Blogs/On-The-Ground/2013/07/NASCAR-ESPN-Turner-Fox-NBC-rights.aspx 1120. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 12:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Hey, BSPN, don't let the door hit you. 1121. The Long Shot posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't know about anybody else, but I know that I will always treasure and miss the delightful commentary of Kyle Petty, Wally Dallenbach, Dale Jarrett, Andy Petree (*smiles*), Adam Alexander (*sniggers*), Nicole Briscoe (*chuckles*), Rusty Wallace (*laughs*), Brad Daugherty (*laughing extremely hard*), and Marty...Marty R...(*rolling on the floor laughing*)...Marty Rei...(*gives up and just keeps laughing*) 1122. The Long Shot posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can you tell that I couldn't keep a straight face during that last comment? 1123. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marty Reid: "People always ask me why I sign off 'Until we meet again.' It's because 'Goodbye' is so final. Goodbye, NASCAR on ESPN." 1124. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was my reaction to hearing BSPN will be gone next year, starting at 00:37: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bWHPxCyB2w 1125. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently NBC offered a 50% increase over what ESPN was paying. More information here . 1126. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "and Marty...Marty R...(*rolling on the floor laughing*)...Marty Rei...(*gives up and just keeps laughing*) " Lol. I feel like a prisoner who just found out his sentence has been reduced, and will be free in 4 months. FREEDOM! "Marty Reid: "People always ask me why I sign off 'Until we meet again.' It's because 'Goodbye' is so final. Goodbye, NASCAR on ESPN." " I really shouldn't have laughed at this considering the circumstances under which it originally was said. But I did laugh reading this. Loudly. Not gonna pretend I didn't. Btw Nico, expect an admonishment from cjs for this, one in which he will definitely mention the 1973 Indianapolis 500 at some point. 1127. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's too bad NBC doesn't take over until 2015. 1128. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't worry, DSFF, if cjs mentions the 1973 Indy 500, I will come roaring back and Intimidate him out of the lead to take the win. 1129. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) One last thing for now about this for now, a message to NBC: HIRE BOB JENKINS GODDAMNIT! It's been WAY too long since he last called a NASCAR race. He has a true passion for motorsports, AND conveys that passion vocally as well as anyone. And surround him with a couple of old school racers who also have a passion for the sport, and have no personal agenda to promote, like he had with Ned and Benny. Ricky Rudd? I remember him saying he was offered an analyst spot in some capacity, but didn't want to. He has no agenda, and has always, in my opinion, given insightful interviews. Tell him just to talk about what he is seeing. I think he'd be great. Not sure about the other one. I wouldn't be opposed to DJ. I think he has done well considering what he has had to work with at BSPN (a shit sandwich). 1130. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's too bad NBC doesn't take over until 2015." That's what I mentioned to DSFF, except that comment had emphasized words in it, so it hasn't posted yet. Regardless, this may mean I can watch the latter half of the season now. FOX will most likely put most of their races on FS1 in the same year (hopefully not Daytona, though). 1131. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This was my reaction to hearing BSPN will be gone next year, starting at 00:37: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bWHPxCyB2w" Where did you dig up that clip? That was funny! By the way, don't be too happy. ESPN won't be gone until the year /after/ next year. 1132. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If DSFF hadn't said, I was going to wish Ricky Rudd was an announcer. Imagine him with his "No SHIT! God damn you all!!!" attitude. He probably would be calling the mystery debris cautions as they are and get himself fired. He'd criticize everything too much. Plus he'd have a shit-fest on Harvick. 1133. BON GORDON posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Just because NBC is coming back and ESPN and TNT are leaving don't mean everything. Benny Parsons, Bob Jenkins, Ned Jarrett, Buddy Baker, and Ken Squier aren't commentating. Over the years I haven't seen a broadcast station that doesn't make mistakes. I remember how happy a lot of people were when they heard ESPN was coming back...well.... 1134. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ugh, correction, my prison sentence won't be up for another year and 4 months. Guess I should have actually read the press release before getting too excited. Also, did you guys hear Richard Childress says the most special of his 3 Brickyard 400 wins as an owner was his 2011 win with Paul Menard. You. Have. Got. To. Be. Freaking. Kidding. Me. Your favorite win there was a fluke fuel mileage win that erased the "only the best win this race" mantra that race had forever, his only win and one of only 7 Top 5s for him in 238 starts? Unbelievable. 1135. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.23.2013 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Imagine him with his "No SHIT! God damn you all!!!" attitude. He probably would be calling the mystery debris cautions as they are and get himself fired. He'd criticize everything too much. Plus he'd have a shit-fest on Harvick." Exactly! It would be awesome. 1136. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I was Childress, my favorite would either be 1995 because of the combo of kick-ass driver and kick-ass pit crew, or 2003 because of how impressive Harvick looked in that win (something that isn't said about him often). 1137. Ryan posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if Dr. Jerry Punch will retire after 2014? 1138. The Long Shot posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All I can say is, if NBC doesn't hire Kyle Petty to be one of their analysts, I'll be severely disappointed. This is what I think the NBC lineup is going to look like (or rather, what I hope it's going to look like): Color commentator: Allen Bestwick Booth Analysts: Kyle Petty, Dale Jarrett Pit Reporters: Dr. Jerry Punch, Ralph Sheheen, Marty Snider, Jamie Little (because they have to have their sexual diversity) Studio Analysts: Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach, Rusty Wallace 1139. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You forgot Brad Daugherty for racial diversity. -_- 1140. Eric posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, Wally Dallenbach Jr. is a lock to be a race commentator for NASCAR Races on NBC. Wally does commentator on NBCSP for Indy Car races when he's doesn't do race commentator on NASCAR races. 1141. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, the "color commentators" ARE the booth analysts. Bestwick would actually be the play-by-play announcer (except that NASCAR doesn't have "plays"). Imagine what Ricky Rudd would have to say about Jeff Gordon's 788th consecutive start, which would tie Rudd's own record (by my calculations, that would be the 27th race of 2015, assuming the schedule doesn't add or subtract races). That would be fun to listen to. 1142. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ricky Rudd: "God damn you Jeff; I always hated y'on the track, and I hated y'off the track too. Aw, shit!" Throws mic and headset and walks out. 1143. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stoked on NBC coming back. Their Indy and F1 coverage has been great. Can't wait to see what they do with Nascar. 1144. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoa, BON GORDON, where did you come from? We haven't seen you around these parts in a long time. 1145. Ryan posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol if NBC put Ricky Rudd and Rusty Wallace in the same booth 1146. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Nascar Race Hub did this "Where Are They Now?" piece on Rick Mast a while ago, and he said that he too was offered a broadcasting career but turned it down. I think it would be cool to see him back in the sport as an analyst. Given that he currently does stuff with Indy Car, I'm sure Wally will be taking up one of the analyst spots though, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Hopefully someone good will get the play by play spot. My choices would be either Bob Jenkins or Allen Bestwick (or, as a COMPLETELY ridiculous long shot choice, the internet's resident Nascar activist Brock Beard - if you've watched any of his videos, he would be an awesome play by play guy). Anyway, I'm confident that they will go in a good direction with this. Can't wait until Homestead 2014 when we get to listen to Brad "I Offer No Analysis" Daugherty and "Bumbling" Vince Welch for the last time. 1147. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm all for putting Rudd and Rusty in the same booth, but we need a camera on them so we can watch The Rooster beat the hell out of Rubberhead. Preferably at Dover. Rudd had an epic interview towards Rusty after The Great Dover Incident Of Ninety Three when Rusty triggered the huge restart pileup that took out Rudd as well as Earnhardt, then of course the 2001 incident that damn near got Rusty's ass kicked in front of God and everyone. #TheRoosterNBC2015 1148. cjs3872 posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, NBC Sports isn't going to hire Bob Jenkins because Jenkins is retired. Besides, it's been so long since he last called a NASCAR race that he might have lost touch with NASCAR, and might not know much except the drivers. But NBC does need to hire someone other that Adam Alexander, that's for certain. The angle involving Wally Dallenbach, Jr. is interesting because the question is, does he want to continue doing the IndyCar series, where his family has been so involved since the mid 60s (namely his father, Wally, Sr.), or does he want to continue doing NASCAR races, as he's done since he stopped driving in 2001? Frankly, I'd like to see Wally and Kyle together in the same booth, because they're this generation's version of Benny Parsons and either Ned Jarrett or Bobby Unser (who he worked with for ABC's NASCAR races from 1989-'92, as well as the IROC series in '96), or Bobby Unser and Sam Posey, as far as analysts go. Come to think of it, with the Brickyard 400 coming up, I'm surprised that ABC didn't try to team Parsons with Tom Sneva during the time Sneva worked with ABC, since Sneva did have some NASCAR experience, including three Daytona 500 starts. After all, ABC did put Danny Sullivan on the 1996 Brickyard 400 telecast and stationed him in turn two. I'm also surprised they didn't have either Unser or Posey on their first two Brickyard 400 telecasts, especially Unser who I thought actually worked well with Parsons in the booth. But leave the analysts as they are for the NBC portion of it, especially Dallenbach, since he's already an NBC Sports veteran, having been in the booth for their first stint in NASCAR from 2001-'06. It's the FOX booth and broadcast team that needs to change, as they've had the same team for 13 years. And if it does change, wouldn't Mike Joy be good with Petty and Dallenbach, though he wouldn't be my first choice. After all, Petty and Dallenbach have never had any interest in self-promotion, and call the races as they see them, unlike the goofballs Joy's been working with for 13 years on FOX. Actually, I expect Allen Bestwick to reunite with Dallenbach and possibly take others that are on ESPN's current team that were on NBC's coverage, such as Dave Burns, with him. And with NBC getting back into the game, Marty Snider and Ralph Sheheen will also have a bigger role in the TV coverage. 1149. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #TheRoosterNBC2015 The greatest thing since sliced bread. 1150. 18fan posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I assume that FOX will be expanding their schedule to 16 Cup races in 2015. 1151. The Long Shot posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Long Shot, the "color commentators" ARE the booth analysts. Bestwick would actually be the play-by-play announcer (except that NASCAR doesn't have "plays")." My mistake. "Lap-by-lap announcer" was the word I was looking for. "You forgot Brad Daugherty for racial diversity. -_- " Racial diversity wasn't the reason they hired Daugherty. It was something more along the lines of, "Ooh, here's someone that a lot of sports fans have heard about that has a vague connection with NASCAR! Let's hire him to talk about something he is almost clueless about!" 1152. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I assume that FOX will be expanding their schedule to 16 Cup races in 2015." Yeah, that's probably the only downside to this. The article I read said that Fox is the favorite to get TNT's six races, while NBC would get all of the ESPN races. I just hope Fox will make some changes to improve (I can hope, can't I?). I read a while ago that DW was planning on retiring after Fox's current deal was up, so that means that he would retire after next year. So maybe Kyle Petty could be his replacement since he has a connection with Fox/Speed. That would make the Fox telecasts a TON better. Unfortunately though, they probably won't see the light and they'll just replace him with Michael, who in my opinion is even worse when it comes to the "self promotion" stuff that CJS was talking about (every Daytona 500 or All Star race he has to mention, "Hey, did y'all know that I've won this race before?"). It's just ridiculous that active owners are allowed to participate in broadcasting. I'd like to hope and think that once DW retires (hopefully after next year) that they'll replace him with someone like KP (even Jeff Hammond would be a big step up), but I have a really bad feeling that they'll continue on as the Waltrip tool network, and even worse, they will probably have more races than they currently have. So if there is any downside to this NBC deal, it's that. 1153. 18fan posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeff Gluck said that there are still 3 Cup races up for grabs (Races 14, 15, and 16) and the first 14 Nationwide races are still available as well. I would expect FOX to end up getting those races. 1154. 18fan posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NBC has the final 20 Cup races, so they have three of TNT's races plus all 17 of ESPN's. 1155. AveryNH posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if the tv schedule will just revert to how it was from 01 to 06, flip flopping the Firecracker 400 every year. Also im interested to see how many nationwide race are broadcast on broadcast instead of the two cable networks. 1156. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Big downer: Thirteen of those races are on NBCSN. Dang. 1157. AveryNH posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I overlooked the "nbc sports will cover the last 20 races of the sprint cup season and 19 nationwide races bit" so my bad. However im intrigued to see how much regional nascar series races they wind up covering 1158. cjs3872 posted: 07.23.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, starting next week and continuing through the race at Richmond, I will, for the second straight year, be posting what the Chase standings would be under my seeding system, which for anyone that forgot, gives all the Chase drivers 2000 points, as NASCAR currently does, then seeds them by giving each of the top ten positions a three-point bump (2,030 for the points leader and 2,003 for tenth before wins are counted in), followed by 3 more for each win. Thereby, consistency and wins count the same, and nobody automatically gets penalized for being consistent, but not winning, or being inconsistent in the bottom portion of the top ten, but wins more races than those above them in the standings, so consistency and wins are given the same weight. Of course, only those in the top ten in points would be eligible to get extra points. Those in the Wild Card positions would not get any bonus points, as their wins will be "banked" in for their Chase eligibility. 1159. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, NBC Sports isn't going to hire Bob Jenkins because Jenkins is retired. Besides, it's been so long since he last called a NASCAR race that he might have lost touch with NASCAR, and might not know much except the drivers." Also, Bob has said many times on his website the past few years how he has lost so much interest in NASCAR since 2000. He no longer loves the sport like he once did. After this year's Indy 500, when fans kept saying the race should've had a gwc, Bob had said something like "that ruins the integrity of the sport, and that's why I've become less interested in NASCAR." Sad but true, especially since I would LOVE to see him call another Cup race even though for the most part he's retired. Also I just found out about this even though I see the news broke around noon est. Here is who I think will take over: Booth: Allen Bestwick, Wally Dallenbach, Kyle Petty Pits: Marty Snider, Matt Yocum, Ralph Sheheen, Dr. Jerry Punch (depending on his ESPN contract, who he has been with since 1985) if not Punch, then Dave Burns Studio: Leigh Diffey, Rusty Wallace, Brad Daugherty Though I highly doubt it will happen, David Hobbs would make a great analyst. He works for NBC for F1, plus he has a long history of covering NASCAR races for CBS from the late '70s-early '90s. Plus he was on Dave Despain's Wind Tunnel and still knew a lot about NASCAR today. One final thought: if NBC's NASCAR coverage turns out being as great as their IndyCar and F1 coverage, then we are in for great coverage these upcoming years. 1160. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few more things: NBC Sports will also carry the HoF induction ceremonies and Banquets every year. And lastly, suprising that nobody mentioned how this means no more Marty Reid after next year. 1161. Scott B posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Hermie Sadler for race analyst. With subtitles. And Kenny Wallace. 1162. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) NBCSN? RIP NASCAR 1163. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What, you guys actually thought that they were gonna carry ALL of the races on the regular network NBC? 1164. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Overall, I think this will be a win-win for both Nascar and NBC. Nascar finally gets a network that seems dedicated to auto racing, and NBC will most likely get a shitload more viewers on their sports network because of the large Nascar fanbase. So it seems like both sides are gonna gain from this. Also, I just read that they will be airing some modified races too. Sweet!!! 1165. 18fan posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) From 2001-2006, FOX and NBC alternated the Daytona races. In odd numbered years, FOX showed the 500 and NBC the 400. In even numbered years, NBC showed the 500 and FOX the 400. 1166. Eric posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, Fox may have to do some changes at some point in personnel from 2015 to 2024 because Darrell is 66 this year and Mike Joy is going to be 64 in November. I brought up age because I know NBC has television rights to NASCAR through 2024 and I'm guessing Fox has the same amount of years on their contract. The fact is nobody knows when an announcer/analyst is going to retire. I mentioning this because David Hobbs is still doing F1 races at 74 years old, but Dick Berggren retired as a pit reporter despite being 71 years old. 1167. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But 18fan, I'm quite sure that when Fox extended their NASCAR rights to 2022, it meant being the exclusive carrier to the Daytona 500 every year, not NBC. 1168. 18fan posted: 07.23.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know that FOX will show the 500 every year. I was responding to a previous post about the two networks alternating the 400. 1169. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No I didn't, murb, but I thought that maybe they would put more than that on NBC (seven is a good number though). Also, in case you guys haven't read it yet, I put up a new blog post discussing the points systems of today's racing series. 1170. cjs3872 posted: 07.23.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SpeedWorld97, I don't think it would be a bad idea for David Hobbs to cover a race or two (perhaps the Brickyard 400, assuming it's still being run in 2015), but as Eric said, he'll be 76 when the next TV deal kicks in. To give you an idea how long Hobbs has been an analyst, Curt Gowdy was still NBC's lead commentator for the Super Bowl, Pat Summerall's broadcasting partner for the NFL was still Tom Brookshier, and ABC was still covering the Daytona 500, picking up the live action 300 miles in. That's how long Hobbs has been commentating on racing. In fact, he had competed in the Daytona 500 and the Indianapolis 500 the year before he became a commentator for CBS, even leading the 1976 Daytona 500 briefly in a team car to what Benny Parsons was driving (L.G. DeWitt ran three cars in that race). Hobbs began commentating on racing for CBS in 1977, just before CBS' gamble on a full-day of sports programming on the day of Super Bowl XII (which was a mistake-filled fiasco between the Broncos and Cowboys in the Superdome, the very site of the "Blackout Bowl" this past February), which in turn set up their purchasing the rights to televise the Daytona 500 in May of 1978. And as they say, the rest is history. But Leigh Diffey and Brad Daugherty in the studio? That's just as mad as the idea ESPN had to put Daugherty in their pit studio to begin with. Also, Dave Burns has worked for NBC before, and Jerry Punch has been a regular pit reporter at the Indianapolis 500 since about 1989. However, NBC's commentating team is almost certainly going to butt heads with NASCAR, if what you said about their coverage of other motorsports is true, because their commentators have never been afraid to speak their mind. That's true about Hobbs, Dallenbach, and Petty, so Rusty Wallace would fit right in with that crowd. I wonder if what you said about Bob Jenkins souring on NASCAR can be dated all the way back to the first race after the final one he called, which would have been the 2001 Daytona 500. Remember that he called so many of Dale Earnhardt's greatest moments, and at least two-thirds of all the races he won in NASCAR's top series, and called the races in which Earnhardt clinched his second through sixth championships, so I wonder if some of Jenkins' uneasiness with NASCAR goes back to that day in 2001 when Dale Earnhardt was killed. And murb, I think what NBC is planning to do is to use NASCAR as a lead-in to their NFL coverage, so expect most of the Sunday races beginning in September to be on NBC, so they can use that as a bridge to their Sunday Night Football package. They can broadcast the races during the day, follow that with their NFL pre-game show, and then that week's Sunday Night NFL game. Of course, that's somewhat risky, because the weather begins to get somewhat questionable that time of year, and weather could be an adversary to NBC's plans, if they're what I think they are, in regards to using NASCAR to lead into their Sunday Night NFL package. 1171. MStall41 posted: 07.23.2013 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) I could give two shits about how good NBC/NBCSN's coverage is or how much they will "appreciate" NASCAR. Having thirteen f****** races on an invisible cable network is ridiculously stupid. This is a terrible day for NASCAR. Plus, we lose ESPN in this new deal, which by extension means all of the exposure to the casual mainstream audience that ESPN provides for NASCAR will be gone. Without ESPN, NASCAR has no outlet to the mainstream sports world, which will kill the sports growth potential. Pretty terrible "deal" if you ask me. 1172. Eric posted: 07.23.2013 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) MSTAll41, I disagree to a point. While ESPN is a mainstream channel, most of ESPN doesn't give a crap about NASCAR. The other thing is ESPN has been laying off employees earlier this year. ESPN's tv deals with sports is causing them to layoff people. ESPN from a money standpoint isn't as strong as it was it the past. 1173. MStall41 posted: 07.23.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) It doesn't matter if they don't give a crap. They still expose the sport to a huge mainstream audience on SportsCenter and the like. Not having NASCAR on ESPN is a huge punch in the gut to the sports mainstream image. 1174. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just because they won't be showing full races on ESPN anymore doesn't mean that they won't show highlights on SportsCenter. They show highlights on there of the Fox and TNT races, so I don't see why it would change. 1175. ch posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I AM SO EXCITED!!!! NBCSN is going to be so great, especially on weekends! English Premier League soccer in the mornings, Nascar NW / Cup in the afternoon, and NHL at night! What could be better!!! 1176. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Leigh Diffey?! God no! It's so disgusting to listen to him. His accent is beyond ear-scratching and he's like a fangirl for Chip Ganassi and Roger Penske's IndyCars. 1177. ch posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and FOX has already stated that NO CUP races would be on FS1 until 2015 at the earliest. Expect FS1 to get the first 13-14 NW races each year, starting in 2015. I'd also expect the Trucks to be moved over to FS2 then which could be bad for the series depending on how the FS1/FS2 experiment plays out. 1178. Eric posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MStall41, You may talk about a Mainstream Audience as much as you want, you didn't address my comment about ESPN laying people off. The latest ESPN layoffs was in June with Howie Schwab being of the people that got canned. They also had layoffs in May. Forbes mentioned in May that layoffs was caused by the rights frees ESPN pays. That means ESPN doesn't the money to give NASCAR like NBC does. 1179. loomer posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Jeff Burton(if he retires before then)would be a great sleeper pick as a color commentator. Each time I've heard him he's been impressive. 1180. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Personally, I don't like the TV deal for many reasons. 1) Look at the ratings for 2006, the last year for the first TV deal, when 27 races were on network TV (Fox/NBC) and 9 were on cable (FX/TNT). Now compare that to the ratings this year when 16 are on network TV (Fox/ABC) and 20 are on cable (TNT/ESPN). NBCSN and Fox Sports 1 will at best keep the status quo, but most likely increase the number of races on cable. NASCAR has more viewers when the races are broadcast on network TV. It's as simple as that. 2) The cable channels NASCAR is currently on, TNT and especially ESPN, have far more identity in the TV market than NBCSN, and they still have had a ratings decrease. A lot of people don't even know what NBCSN is. 3) A lot of basic cable packages in this country don't even include NBCSN in them. 4) A lot of NASCAR fans aren't as affluent as other fan bases are and can't afford cable. I don't mean this as an insult to NASCAR fans, but it's the way it is. When races are broadcast on network stations such as Fox, NBC, ABC, and CBS you can literally get those channels for free just by owning a TV. This is a point Mike Joy emphasizes a lot on Twitter. 5) It is generally believed that the racing simply isn't as good as it was 15, 10, or even 5 years due to the COT, aero-push, The Chase, etc. In years past, if race fans had extra money on hand they wouldn't mind spending it to get access to the races. I don't see that happening in this day and time when money is tighter and the racing is worse. Unless a mixture of NBCSN gaining more of an identity/becoming more readily available and NASCAR fans getting richer happens before 2015, I don't see how this is a good package at all. This could have been a masterful deal if NASCAR could have secured a package that got most of the races a time slot that would have been the lead up to Sunday Night Football, which is the most popular TV show in the US. Have NASCAR run from about 1-5 and start the game around 6. It would have been beneficial to NASCAR's rating, but instead, not only are they hurting their ratings, they are hurting the fans in general by denying a good portion of them access to the race coverage. 1181. ch posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This could have been a masterful deal if NASCAR could have secured a package that got most of the races a time slot that would have been the lead up to Sunday Night Football, which is the most popular TV show in the US. Have NASCAR run from about 1-5 and start the game around 6. It would have been beneficial to NASCAR's rating, but instead, not only are they hurting their ratings, they are hurting the fans in general by denying a good portion of them access to the race coverage." > I would imagine that the west coast races will be the lead in to SNF. 1182. ch posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just because they won't be showing full races on ESPN anymore doesn't mean that they won't show highlights on SportsCenter. They show highlights on there of the Fox and TNT races, so I don't see why it would change." I doubt ESPN will cut all Nascar off SportsCenter, but look at the NHL for example. When ESPN/ABC had the coverage rights, they had NHL all over SportsCenter. Now that NBC has the contract, they hardly show anything hockey related. Hell, they showed more of LeBron's draft highlights from over a decade ago than the Stanley Cup Finals. 1183. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will say the one thing I do like about a new TV deal is it could offer an opportunity for a schedule overhaul. Not necessarily new tracks because, frankly that isn't going to happen anytime soon if we are honest with each other, but we could switch some races around and break up the monotony that sometimes sets in. Maybe move Darlington back to Labor Day or make the Daytona 400 a legitimate 4th of July race. Shuffle up the chase some as well. 1184. Eric posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn, I agree with you on the tv market that it is a bad deal, but there is a couple fact that you didn't mention. 1.) From what I read months ago, ESPN wanted only the chase races and not all the Nationwide races. 2.) ESPN has over spent on frees for getting television rights and had to do layoffs in May and June. I'll be glad to give a link on that if you ask. 1185. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I agree with you on the tv market that it is a bad deal, but there is a couple fact that you didn't mention. 1.) From what I read months ago, ESPN wanted only the chase races and not all the Nationwide races. 2.) ESPN has over spent on frees for getting television rights and had to do layoffs in May and June. I'll be glad to give a link on that if you ask." I'm not so much angry about losing ESPN as I am that there will be an increase in cable races starting in 2015. Ideally, the only stations NASCAR would ever be shown on would be Fox, NBC, ABC, and CBS because this is a win/win for both NASCAR (who would get the ratings) and the fans (who would get the most access for the cheapest price). It's unfortunate that ESPN has had to make layoffs, but I still think if NASCAR had to have a cable partner, ESPN would be the perfect one just because ESPN is a sports behemoth and the exposure would be nothing but good for NASCAR, even if they don't take it 100% seriously. Plus, ESPN is available on most basic cable packages, whereas NBCSN, at this point in time, is available on far fewer. 1186. 83andJoe posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson led first Truck practice at Eldora. Top 10: Larson, Dave Blaney, Ryan Blaney, Austin Dillon, Ty Dillon, Gaughan, Townley(!!), Bloomquist, Hornaday, Armstrong. The Kennys were Schrader 23rd, Wallace 27th. 34 Trucks practiced. The Slow Four: Bowles, Crafton(!!), Silas, and Joe Cobb. 1187. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Townley(!!)" They said that he crashed twice though too, so that part isn't surprising. 1188. AveryNH posted: 07.23.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I get the cable raucous to an extent. I suppose I'm quite lucky to have my basic comcast package which includes NbcSN (not shocking seems how comcast owns nbc) and recently moved speed channel in anticipation of the new network launch. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Nbc starts bargaining with other cable providers trying to get their channel in a more desirable location (closer to espn) as opposed to just being added to the tail end of the guide list. The majority of NbcSN subscribers come from comcast. I'm positive. But I anticipate them making deals to expand their market. 1189. ch posted: 07.23.2013 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just noticed this part of the TV Deal: "Spanish-language broadcast rights on Telemundo and Mun2" Since Telemundo is a network station in many markets, my question is this... Has any NASCAR series been broadcast on Spanish Network TV before? 1190. ch posted: 07.23.2013 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://www.sbnation.com/2013/7/23/4549976/nbc-sports-network-nascar-deal This article says that all 7 NBC races will be lead ins for Sunday Night Football. 1191. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.23.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mmmmmmmm... dirt! 1192. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if Brian Williams had something to do with the NBC deal. He's a big NASCAR fan. 1193. AveryNH posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Wes Townley spin counter: 4 1194. 83andJoe posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meanwhile, for those keeping track of such things, the site now has its first driver page for a driver born in the 2000s: Tate Fogleman. 1195. cjs3872 posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ch (#1190), I suspected that, because what better way for NASCAR to attract attention than to be a lead in for THE national NFL Game of the Week. And what better way for NBC to lure in more viewers than to have two of the most popular sports to go back-to-back for about 7-9 hours every Sunday. In fact, I even mentioned that NBC probably was going to use NASCAR as their lead-in to the NFL's national Game of the Week in post #1170. And DSFF, I missed your earlier post about Childress saying that, of his three Brickyard 400 wins (I wouldn't be surprised if it was four after Sunday), Paul Menard's win was the most special of the three. While I don't agree with Childress about that, I can certainly get where he's coming from. Paul Menard's Brickyard 400 win wasn't just about Paul, but also his father's trials and tribulations in getting to victory lane at Indy. Remember that John Menard has seen more than his share of tragedy in his career. In fact, it was Menard's car, driven by Herm Johnson, that Rick Mears ran into on pit lane late in the 1982 race that might have cost him the win. Years later, Jim Crawford had a frightening crash in 1990 where his car got ten feet in the air. In 1991, Gary Bettenhausen actually was the fastest qualifier at Indy driving for Menard. But Menard's trials and tribulations really began in 1992 when 3-time F1 champion Nelson Piquet was badly injured in one of his cars. Many think that Piquet might have been a threat to win the race. Piquet was replaced by another 3-time series champion, 3-time IndyCar and 4-time Indianapolis 500 champion Al Unser, Sr. Early in that race, Tom Sneva crashed, then Bettenhausen was involved in Jeff Andretti's horrible crash when the wheel that flew off Andretti's car actually hit Bettenhausen's car, knocking it out of the race while running fifth. But Al Unser also gave Menard his first shot at winning, contending late and actually leading during the final series of pit stops before ending up third. Then in 1995, Scott Brayton and Arie Luyendyk qualify 1-2 for Menard, and Brayton and Tony Stewart qualify 1-2 for Menard after Luyendyk's pole time was disallowed. But five days later, Brayton loses his life in a crash in turn two. Two years later, Tony Stewart blows his engine while leading, and in 1999, Robby Gordon runs out of fuel with about three miles to go while leading. With all that having happened to John Menard at Indy, especially what Childress himself went through in 2001 when Dale Earnhardt was killed at the end of the Daytona 500, it's easy for me to understand why Childress would say that Paul Menard's win in the 2011 Brickyard 400 was emotionally the biggest of Childress' three Brickyard wins, even though we know it was not the biggest of the three. Let's also not forget that Andy Petree, who won the 1995 Brickyard 400 with Earnhardt, was the guy that brought Paul Menard to stock car racing, and I don't think Childress ever forgot that, either. But Childress can also relate to all the Menard family went through over 30+ years to finally get to victory lane at Indy, remembering that it took Childress 26 years to finally win the Daytona 500, from his first attempt in 1973 (when he failed to even qualify) to finally winning it with Dale Earnhardt in 1998. There was a backstory there much more important than racing, and Childress, a former driver who's family has been a part of the sport for more than 40 years, and who has two grandsons that will be competing at the sport's highest level within four years, knows it. 1196. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "John Wes Townley spin counter: 4" 5 1197. AveryNH posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Damnit murb you had to beat me to it!! 1198. The Long Shot posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently, at least 6 different trucks (Townley, Burton, Hornaday, Wallace, Gresham, Silas) spun during the first practice session. I'll take over Schroeder51's job as "Caution Predictor" and predict that we have no fewer than 17 cautions Wednesday night. 1199. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DAMN JWT JUST SPUN AGAIN!!! 1200. murb posted: 07.23.2013 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe it would be a good idea for them to implement a "three unassisted spins and you're out" rule for the race tomorrow night. I understand that a lot of these guys don't have dirt track experience, but it's gonna be ridiculous if we have guys like JWT having 8-10 unassisted spins in the race tomorrow night. We don't need that. 1201. The Long Shot posted: 07.23.2013 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) John Wes Townley spin counter: broken due to over-usage 1202. David posted: 07.23.2013 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Wes Townley spin counter: smoking East coasters are going to be up a long time tomorrow night. 1203. 83andJoe posted: 07.23.2013 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) His number of spins! The readings are off the scale! Don't say it! They're...OVER NINE THOUSAND! *breaks the JWT Spin Counter* 1204. The Long Shot posted: 07.23.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think I'm going to compile a list of how many crashes Townley has been involved in during his entire racing career. This could take me a while. 1205. The Long Shot posted: 07.23.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Number of caution-causing incidents that John Wes Townley has been involved in during his career: Cup: 1 (out of 0 starts; undefined percentage) Nationwide: 25 (out of 45 starts; 55.6%) (16 out of 26 in 2009) Truck: 13 (out of 37 starts; 35.1%) 1206. Eric posted: 07.24.2013 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My own take on the ESPN deal is NASCAR made a bad deal based on having NBCSP for a majority of Cup and Nationwide races on their deal. This also shows don't be shocked if other sports/or non sports things on ESPN might be offered at a lower price by ESPN that they might be able to get a highers on a different network such as World Series of Poker, and NHRA as examples. This deal also shows the decline of NASCAR from start of 2001 to now. The chase didn't help the fact NASCAR's popularity. At the same time NASCAR angered race fans by getting a rid of the Labor Day Southern 500, Rockingham in the cup series (sorry, can't cup date again), death of Dale Earnhardt Sr, retirement of cup drivers that made NASCAR popular in the 1990's, and how competitive some of the races are due to aero push. 1207. AveryNH posted: 07.24.2013 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Long shot, I think there's a 100% chance of Townley causing at least one yellow in the truck race tomorrow. It'd push his crash average up to about 37% I can drive better on Nascar racing 4. But hey I love me some chicken. 1208. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.24.2013 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is why I was so surprised by John Wes Townley's ARCA win, it was totally unexpected, and his reputation of crashing led me to believe he wouldn't get a win of any sort in stock cars. 1209. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Overall I still feel this new deal is a good thing. The first thing we must ask ourselves is this: can it get any worse? It would be hard to. The fact is NASCAR has, as mentioned earlier, been on a downward trend for quite sometime. Attendance is the most startling to me. I'm telling ya, they used to cram us in like sardines everywhere. Even at a place like Charlotte, there wasn't an empty seat to be seen. Now they don't get half the fans. The major network fall off is a compelling argument, but even on FOX and ABC and ESPN, we are still losing fans by the minute. What NBCSN needs to do is go back to basics and present NASCAR for what it is: a sport. Try to re-cultivate a core following like another fledgling sports network (at the time) did back in the day called ESPN. It is long since past time for this sport to be re imagined. What is being presented right now isn't working. We are gaining no new fans and driving out the old ones. Either go back to basics or take a huge leap in a completely new direction. The time is now. 1210. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2013 - 2:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Then again RCRandPenskeGuy, what does that say about racing at Daytona and the lack of depth in the ARCA series? After all, racing at Daytona, especially for the ARCA cars and for the Cup cars again has become "follow the leader racing", not because the drivers want to, but because they have to since there's no way to get runs and pass. And also, Townley won that race because Bobby Gerhart ran out of fuel with just more than a lap to go. and how many times has Gerhart won that race, but can't win anything else? And now ARCA can't even get fields with 20 drivers trying to run the distance, and recently had a race at Winchester, IN in which only 23 cars started, 16 tried to run the distance, and only 12 finished. And at Chicago, only 18 cars tried to go the distance in a speedway race. I'd say that the ARCA series may not have more than a year or two left, the way it's going. Frank Kimmel setting the career win record isn't going to mean as much as it would have two years ago, because he's now racing against skeleton fields. Even 58-year old Ken Schrader won an ARCA race this year, which should say something right there. 1211. BON GORDON posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:14 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I personally would like to see Alan Bestwick, Kyle Petty, and Wally Dallenbach in the booth. I like that trio for some reason. I don't mind Brad Daugherty as much as a lot of people do. I liked Rusty Wallace as a driver but I personally can't stand him analyzing NASCAR races. Dr. Jerry Punch, Marty Snider, and Dave Burns are good for the Pits. They just need some new faces. I had read somewhere a few years ago that Ricky Rudd would be a part of the SPEED channel which never panned out. I think he would be great to be a part of the NBC team or to see him do some sort of analysis for NASCAR racing. FOX needs to get rid of Michael Waltrip who I also loved as a driver but I can't stand him in the Hollywood Hotel or whatever it's called now. I love Mike Joy and Larry Mac. Darrell's okay but he gets on my nerves and a lot. I forget who said it in a post above but once Jeff Burton retires I think he'd be great as a color commentator too. What hurts NASCAR now more than anything else is it's drivers. I've said this before. NASCAR needs a leader who people love. They have a "villain" in Kyle Busch but they need a Dale Earnhardt. I respect Jimmie Johnson as a driver and a person but he needs to go through some rough times like Jeff Gordon so the fans will feel for him and want to see a comeback. Look how everyone feels about Jeff Gordon now. I remember as a kid growing up hearing all the boos and seeing the hatred toward Gordon. He stopped winning a lot of races and stopped winning championships and then went through some "bad" seasons (2005, 2008, 2010, and last year.) NASCAR has Mark Martin (who is no longer a full time driver), Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, Dale Jr. and Matt Kenseth who from what I've seen are the more popular drivers of the sport. Plus all these guys are at least in their last 30's age wise up to almost mid-fifties. In ten years they will all be gone more than likely. How many people really pull for or care about Carl Edwards, or Joey Logano, or Martin Truex. I'll take the good "ole" days of Dale Jarrett, the Labonte brothers, Sr., Bill Elliott, Ricky Rudd, Gordon, Rusty Wallace and Martin over this modern era driving roster. Anyway excited for the Brickyard this Sunday and the Truck race at Eldora tomorrow night. It's gonna be awesome. Is it a points paying event by the way? 1212. BON GORDON posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:59 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) And David I've been on Racing Reference almost everyday reading everyone's posts. Taking in all the opinions. Just haven't had much to say. I'm the watchful eye so to speak. 1213. Paul posted: 07.24.2013 - 9:34 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) The problem with ARCA is that the cost of running and driving for a team is about the same as the Truck Series in NASCAR. And if drivers have a choice, which series would they choose? They'd go with NASCAR, especially since NASCAR now has availability for drivers under the age of 18 on certain race tracks. I know Chase Elliott and Erik Jones are running the short tracks in the Truck Series and the superspeedways in ARCA for that very reason. It doesn't pay to race in ARCA at this point if you don't need to, and they need to figure out a way to lower the cost of their cars if they want to remain as American stock car racing's D-league. 1214. Paul posted: 07.24.2013 - 9:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem with ARCA is that the cost of running and driving for a team is about the same as the Truck Series in NASCAR. And if drivers have a choice, which series would they choose? They'd go with NASCAR, especially since NASCAR now has availability for drivers under the age of 18 on certain race tracks. I know Chase Elliott and Erik Jones are running the short tracks in the Truck Series and the superspeedways in ARCA for that very reason. It doesn't pay to race in ARCA at this point if you don't need to, and they need to figure out a way to lower the cost of their cars if they want to remain as American stock car racing's D-league. 1215. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.24.2013 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Meanwhile, for those keeping track of such things, the site now has its first driver page for a driver born in the 2000s: Tate Fogleman. " The reason the US has it that you must be 16 (15 in some states) to get your license is because that's how developed you have to be to handle a car because it's a weapon, but we let kids younger than that drive the much more dangerous late model car... 1216. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.24.2013 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good point about the lack of depth in ARCA nowadays. There's hardly any competitive drivers in it now, other than Frank Kimmel. I also agree that if anyone is going to choose a Series, it would be one among the Top 3 NASCAR Series (I know for a fact that I would), given that ARCA has always been vastly different. 1217. The Long Shot posted: 07.24.2013 - 1:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm almost 2 years older than that girl, and this is all the driving experience I have: -- Who knows how many hours on our family's tractor, mowing the lawn. -- One ride on a go-kart during my family's vacation to California (it was supposed to be a race, but since no one else was entered, it was more like a qualifying session). They had to cut some speed off my kart because I was under-age, but I still posted some decent times, and assuming that the slower speeds cut 5 seconds off my lap times (my sister had her kart slowed even more in her race, and her lap times were 5 seconds slower than mine), I would have had a top 10 time. -- One chance to back my parents' van out of the garage. I at first attempted to let it roll out, but the brake pedal was stuck, so I pushed the gas a bit, and the car flew out of the garage. Thankfully, I didn't hit anything. 1218. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.24.2013 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) -- One chance to back my parents' van out of the garage. I at first attempted to let it roll out, but the brake pedal was stuck, so I pushed the gas a bit, and the car flew out of the garage. Thankfully, I didn't hit anything. That was your mistake. You pushed the gas. If you had been patient, it would have rolled. I learned to drive in a van myself, so I know how you feel. 1219. David posted: 07.24.2013 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Based on that record, I'd say the Minnesota State Police is going to have their hands full over the next several years. 1220. Scott B posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Going back to a great question that was asked much earlier in this thread... who drove for the most different manufacturers in the top NASCAR series? On a hunch that it would be someone who started in the early days and had a long career, I checked Buck Baker and found he racked up 12: His first two starts in a Kaiser(!), then Ford, Chevy, Olds, Plymouth, Hudson, Lincoln, Cadillac, Buick, Pontiac, Chrysler and Dodge. The only brand with a long history he somehow missed was Mercury. So, I don't know the definitve answer, but he'll certainly be among the leaders. 1221. murb posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I at first attempted to let it roll out, but the brake pedal was stuck, so I pushed the gas a bit, and the car flew out of the garage." lol, When I was first learning I did that many a time... 1222. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And that is certainly a tribute to his longevity, Scott B. That's one reason I have him #3 among the drivers in NASCAR's first generation, behind Junior Johnson and Herb Thomas. Buck was one of the toughest drivers in the entire history of the sport. And among drivers, I would rank him among the top 5 when it came to contributions to the sport, right up there with Richard Petty, Darrell Waltrip, Dale Earnhardt, and Jeff Gordon, who's an example of why I would rank Buck among the greatest contributors to the sport. As great a driver as he was, when Buck Baker opened his driving school, he gave anyone that wanted to a chance to drive a real NASCAR competition-tested car, and that opened the doors to fans to see just how tough it was, and for aspiring drivers to learn from one of the best ever. But when Jeff Gordon chose Baker's driving school to learn about how to drive a stock car, that rose his driving school to an even higher level and reputation, especially since he may be arguably the best ever, or certainly one of the 3-5 best ever (I have him #2). 1223. AveryNH posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I crumpled the right side of my mums subaru the first time I drove. There was a big crowd of people filing through a covered bridge and I was driving down a hil and didn't want to stall out so I cranked it right too hard and whacked the wooden barrier. I had to pay for a new fender :/ 1224. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to miss the Eldora race cause I'll be at work and my station doesn't have SPEED. Let me know how it goes guys! 1225. David posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *cue DSFF rant about Baker's 1956 title* Even though one of his titles came driving for Carl Kiekhaefer, I would rank Buck Baker in the top fifteen of all-time, probably. 1226. The Long Shot posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That was your mistake. You pushed the gas. If you had been patient, it would have rolled. I learned to drive in a van myself, so I know how you feel." You're making it sound like I stomped on the gas. I merely tapped the pedal, and the car gave a sudden start. It didn't actually go out of the garage (I exaggerated a bit there), but it came close. And as for letting it roll, it was my dad who had suggested giving a light push on the gas, and I wouldn't take hardly anyone's word about cars and driving before my dad's, although I will say that his rants about the amount of idiots that are on the road nowadays would make Kurt Busch look like a saint. "Based on that record, I'd say the Minnesota State Police is going to have their hands full over the next several years." Oh, you don't know the half of it. When I was younger, I would drive backward on NASCAR 09, just looking for a car to plow into. Nowadays, you never know. If someone decided to cut me off, well, if I can't control that urge, then may his car rest in peace. 1227. JG24FanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The best movie score ever was the music from The Good The Bad And The Ugly, hands down imo, highlighted by the goosebump raising Ecstasy Of Gold" The music playing when Angel Eyes first appears is my favorite piece. 1228. Anonymous posted: 07.24.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Oh, you don't know the half of it. When I was younger, I would drive backward on NASCAR 09, just looking for a car to plow into. Nowadays, you never know. If someone decided to cut me off, well, if I can't control that urge, then may his car rest in peace. " RIP Long Shot and the state of Minnesota 1229. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.24.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^That was me. 1230. startandparkfan posted: 07.24.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Will racing reference have the results for the heat races and last chance? 1231. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, I have Buck 11th on my list and third among the drivers of his era, the first generation of NASCAR. Only Junior Johnson and Herb Thomas among Buck's contemporaries are ranked higher on my list. 1232. David posted: 07.24.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Will racing reference have the results for the heat races and last chance?" They had better (webmaster, I'm looking at you). Even if I have to post the results myself on the comments page. 1233. David posted: 07.24.2013 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We can't allow The Long Shot to run rampant and destroy the entire state of Minnesota!! Paul is up there!! 1234. JG24FanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "David, I have Buck 11th on my list and third among the drivers of his era, the first generation of NASCAR. Only Junior Johnson and Herb Thomas among Buck's contemporaries are ranked higher on my list." cjs3872's Top 8 greatest: 1. Richard Petty 2. Jeff Gordon (Yes!) 3. Bobby Allison 4. Dale Earnhardt 5. Cale Yarborough 6. Darrell Waltrip 7. David Pearson (WTF!!!!!!!!!) 8. Jimmie Johnson This isn't an insult or a call to everyone to hate on cj. I just enjoy the fact that he has Gordon in second. 1235. David posted: 07.24.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My blog now has over 100 views. Thanks, everybody. Oh, and Long Shot, you might want to see what I just found in the comments section. 1236. 83andJoe posted: 07.24.2013 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) >I'm almost 2 years older than that girl If you're referring to Fogleman, he's a guy. :P 1237. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.24.2013 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ken Schrader on pole! 1238. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's the scene JG24Fan! I love that part. That might not have been a call to hate on cjs' list, but I'm gonna hate on it. First off, having The Silver Fox in SEVENTH automatically makes it totally bogus. He tried to give Grand National racing a try at the dawn of the '60s, won Rookis of the Year, and the next year won the World 600 and two other major speedway races, a huge deal at the time. Then he decided to try to win some championships. He ran the "full" schedule 4 times, finishing 2nd to Richard Petty and the soon to be outlawed HEMI engine in '64, then won his next 3 attempts in '66, '68, and '69, then never tried again. Then he decided he was only gonna run the major speedway races and go for as many wins as possible. The result was the greatest run by a part timer ever by amile, becoming the ultimate legend in the Wood Brothers car which has seen almost every legend in it. Oh, and he won at a track called Darlington TEN times. And having Jeff ahead of Bobby? Their careers are very similar on paper. Similar number of wins, similar prowess in the arbitrarily designated "big races", similar stunning versatility, similar curious issues closing seasons out. The difference? Every single one of Jeff's starts in 20+ years have been in the #24 HMS car while Bobby drove for something like 53 different owners and 32 (approximate) makes of car. That increases the degree of difficulty exponentially, yet Jeff is ahead? And Earnhardt 4th despite winning 76 races and a record 7 championships, mostly for an owner who has proven in the past 13 years that he is no Rick Hendrick, no Joe Gibbs, not even Jack Roush.? The guy who proved he can handle the ultimate pressure, the pressure of a title chase, like no other. For a guy who values the arbitrary "big races" (cjs) I wonder how he'd feel if Dale were snake bit at Atlanta in stead of Daytona? What if he won the Daytona 500 in '86, '90, '93, '97, and '98 as well as one additional Firecracker 400 making his Daytona count 9 and Atlanta 3? Then suddenly it is a whole new ballgame. I don't agree with that, a driver enters every race to win. Besides he holds evey modern era record for the 500 except wins (none of his failures to win were chokes), won 3 Southern 500s (T-4th), 3 World 600s (T-2nd), a Brichyard 400 even though it didn't show up on the schedule until the very end of his prime (and a horsepower track which he never had), and 3 or 4 "Winston 500s" depending on how you view what constituted that as a "major". He was no bum on those. He just never won more than one in a season (not counting those Winston 500s, too much confusion), he won a crown jewel in '86, '87, '89, '90, '92, '93, '95, and '98. Not bad. 1239. The Long Shot posted: 07.24.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not so fast, Nico. He's only on the pole for his qualifying race. Also starting on the pole for their respective qualifying races are Jared Landers, Timothy Peters, Kenny Wallace, and Jeb Burton. And how about this: Norm Benning out-qualified veteran dirt trackers like Ron Hornaday, Ty Dillon, Scott Bloomquist, and Ryan Blaney. 1240. JG24FanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "he won a crown jewel in '86, '87, '89, '90, '92, '93, '95, and '98. Not bad." Gordon,The Master, won Crown Jewel race: 2 in 1994,1 in 1995, 1 in 1996, 3 in 1997, 3 in 1998, 1 in 1999, 1 in 2000, 1 in 2001, 1 in 2002, 2 in 2004, 2 in 2005 and 2 in 2007 2 Triple Crown's 4 Double's 6 Single's 9 consecutive winning seasons from 1994-2002 1241. JG24FanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BTW DSFF, The Spring Dega race is a crown jewel because it holds the record for the most lead changes with 88 in 2010,the fastest 500 mile race in racing history in 1997 and the all-time fastest qualifying speed set by Awesome Bill in 1987. 1242. cjs3872 posted: 07.24.2013 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually DSFF, Dale, Sr. won two crown jewels in 1990, which made what happened on the final lap of the 1990 Daytona 500 so infuriating to him and his fans. He won the Winston 500 and the Southern 500, so had it not been for that blown tire at the end of the 1990 Daytona 500, that $100,000 bonus he got for winning the Southern 500 would have been the second Winston Million instead. And you forgot about 1980 and 1987, as far as his Daytona disappointments go. Earnhardt was the one driver that could have taken the 1980 race away from Buddy Baker, and he probably would have won the 1987 race if not for a two-tire change on his last stop when the four that finished ahead of him all had fuel-only stops at the end. He had passed Bill Elliott to take the lead shortly before those pit stops. And you say that Childress is not like Jack Roush as a car owner. I beg to differ, because both Childress and Roush are known for their conservative nature, especially when it comes to engines. In fact, if anything, Roush is even more conservative than Childress in that department. Just look at how badly Penske is beating him in the Nationwide Series on high-speed tracks, despite supposedly having similar engines. That's due to engine set-up, as Roush has always been conservative, while Penske has always been as aggressive as anyone when it comes to engine set-ups. Remember that Childress has won the Brickyard 400 three times, ironically in equalized eight-year spreads (1995, 2003, 2011). Roush has never won at Indy, and took 15 years to win at Pocono for the same reason, and took 22 years to win the Daytona 500. And I'm not sure Ron Hornaday, Jr. and Ryan Blaney are that experienced on dirt tracks. Blaney, unlike his father Dave and uncle Dale, does not have that extensive a dirt racing background, and I'm not sure when Hornaday ran his last dirt race. 1243. murb posted: 07.24.2013 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a pretty sweet heat race. And yes, CJS is right, Hornaday isn't a veteran dirt tracker. I saw an interview with him leading up to this race where he said that his only other real dirt experience was at one of the Prelude to the Dreams (and I watched that race - he looked just a tad better than JWT did last night). 1244. Sean posted: 07.24.2013 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NBC Sports Network - This deal will lead to higher quality and lower ratings just as it did for IndyCar (although the NBC Cup races might get higher ratings than the ESPN races did). The question is which you consider more important. I think it's clear that NASCAR's decline in popularity made this inevitable. It is slowly becoming niche like all other racing series in the US and is the butt of jokes to much of ESPN's fanbase, so maybe being on a channel with more serious racing coverage will be better (having said that, it's sharing a channel with F1 and IndyCar, and so many of their less enlightened fans call NASCAR NASCAB or taxicabs or NASCRAP or NA$CAR, etc..., etc... I certainly agree with the sentiment at times, but it makes these particular open wheel fans look just as trailer-trashy as the worst NASCAR fans.) NASCAR will probably elevate NBC Sports's profile and perhaps motorsports in the US as a whole, and I would expect it to move to the basic cable tier in time for 2015 (very similar to what happened with FX very quickly in 2001). My concern is that NBC Sports might go the way of SPEED or ESPN in the late '90s in being SO biased towards NASCAR that it neglects and spits upon the other (now more serious) series, like when ESPN had RPM2Night gradually switch from a general racing show to a show designed to convince people that NASCAR was superior to all other motorsports (although it probably got better in 2001 once NASCAR kicked them out, long after I stopped watching it). I've liked IndyCar much better than NASCAR lately, and I suspect they're going to get short-shrift big time from this, but the addition of NASCAR to the channel will probably also raise the ratings for its races... A very mixed bag all around, although I like the idea of F1, IndyCar, and Cup on the same network for the first time since ESPN in '97 I think. Dirt track racing, sports car racing, NHRA, and the 6 IndyCar races on ABC are pretty much the only things ESPN had during Speedworld's prime that NBC/NBC Sports WON'T have now. Since the American Le Mans Series is merging into Grand-Am, which will be renamed United Sports Car Racing (horrible name, and it will probably remain on FS1), this means 6 IndyCar races a year and NHRA will be all ESPN has left (unless they actually make Global RallyCross popular), and it's probably what they deserve after they shitcanned Bob Jenkins and Paul Page, the two giants of their operation... I hope since they're going to have almost everything on there in 2015 that they'll attempt to do an RPM2Night-esque show (maybe weekly, not nightly) that is actually SERIOUS. In other words, not a show that's supposed to cover all motorsports but interview Kenny Wallace and Michael Waltrip constantly and pretty much ignore all F1 drivers, all CART drivers except Alex Zanardi, and all IRL drivers except Tony Stewart... Announcers? Wally is obviously a lock given his past history on NBC's Cup coverage and his current participation on NBC Sports's IndyCar broadcasts. And that's good, since he's one of the best today. I hope they'll recognize his chemistry with Kyle Petty and make him the second color announcer. I really don't have any good ideas for play-by-play. While Bob Jenkins was the play-by-play guy for their IndyCar races in 2009-12, he's now mostly retired except for his Indy 500 radio coverage and I wouldn't expect that (and he was NOWHERE NEAR as good an announcer the last few years as he was in his '80s/'90s prime. I think most NASCAR fans would be somewhat disappointed by Jenkins today, but a Jenkins at 75% still beats most of today's announcers at 100% I suppose...) As far as the old-school guys, I'd prefer Paul Page actually... I know he was associated with IndyCar more but he was arguably even more diverse in his racing coverage than Jenkins was (what form of racing DIDN'T he cover at some point?), he was able to make ANY event seem like a HUGE deal (as opposed to Jenkins who was rather understated - would the '94 Brickyard have been nearly as huge without Page's Delta Force intro, much like the intros he was doing for the contemporary Indy 500? I don't think so). While Jenkins was certainly a better NASCAR commentator, he's now retired and Page just got fired from ESPN's NHRA coverage and he doesn't WANT to be retired. He's the first person I'd go after from the old school although he's not as sharp as he was in HIS prime either. Page wanted to replace Jenkins on NBC Sports's IndyCar coverage and NBC Sports decided to replace him with Leigh Diffey instead (which indeed remains a weird choice; I don't hate him but I am with NRF on that to a degree since it seems quite random). I can't think of any of the younger guys I actually like. I guess Allen Bestwick would be the best choice. I mostly find him boring, but that's better than actively annoying. I like the Brock Beard suggestion, actually, but he, like me, would probably be considered too unglamorous for TV (where image is everything, blech...) I know Page isn't any more likely to get it than Beard is but I just hate the way ESPN forced him out and pushed him onto the Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest after they started losing all their racing coverage... I can't think of who I want there. But Kyle and Wally in the other two spots, definitely. I do like some of the potential IndyCar or F1/NASCAR crossovers. It would be cool to see David Hobbs do a NASCAR race again now and then, and I think it would be neat to see Jon Beekhuis try a couple too. But no Leigh Diffey and no Robin Miller on the NASCAR broadcasts. I, unlike most fans, actually like Miller because even though he is full of shit half the time (well over half the time?) you at least know where he stands on things, he did not take sides in the CART/IRL split other than calling both series' management idiots, and he at least seems to have real passion (i.e. not pretending to like racing "ironically" or something, see: Brad Daugherty), and the standards for racing journalism have sunk so deep in the toilet I'll actually take somebody like Miller over most of the alternatives, which I admit is pathetic. ARCA - It is a joke, it has always been a joke, it will always be a joke. I can't believe how many NASCAR fans take this series seriously. David Stremme lapping the field? Kerry Earnhardt, Jason Jarrett, and JWT winning races? Scott Speed almost winning a championship? Etc... etc... etc... I never watched many ASA races, but I found that series much more appealing and it produced talent after talent after talent (Martin, Wallace, Kulwicki, Trickle, Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Busch...) while ARCA produced two (Benny Parsons and Davey Allison - and Davey was going to be in Cup regardless of which route he took...) ARCA needs to model itself after the old ASA Tour with a lot more short tracks for me to have interest in it, although I do like the diversity of their schedule and that they give races to some deserving tracks that NASCAR ignores. I'm all for ARCA merging into Hooters Pro Cup and hopefully getting rid of many of their boring-ass superspeedway races. I wish USAR Pro Cup was televised, and can't understand why ARCA has a higher profile, since I'm sure it has worse racing, and racing that reflects talent significantly less. Eldora - This race is probably going to be boring and an absolute fiasco. But I'll certainly be watching for the novelty of it. Extremely disappointed by the entry list though. I know Tony Kanaan wanted to enter (can you imagine how COOL that would be especially after he won the Indy 500?) but didn't get a ride. I wanted to see a lot more USAC/WoO drivers there than actually showed up. The current truck regulars for the most part with some old washed-up Cup drivers? Meh. 1245. David posted: 07.24.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, I posted about one of your favorite subjects in a blog. ARCA's points system can't even be taken seriously. 1246. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.24.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Eldora - This race is probably going to be boring" Somewhat like Your rants Wrona. Now I'm not trying to be rude or anything and I know you mean well Sean and you make some pretty good points but your posts are way, way to long 1247. Sean posted: 07.24.2013 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Drivers who have raced 10 or more brands of car: Buck Baker - 12 (Buick Cadillac Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Ford Hudson Kaiser Lincoln Oldsmobile Plymouth Pontiac) Tim Flock - 11 (Cadillac Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Ford Hudson Lincoln Mercury Oldsmobile Plymouth Pontiac) Frank Mundy - 11 (Cadillac Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Ford Hudson Lincoln Nash Oldsmobile Plymouth Studebaker) Jim Paschal - 11 (AMC Cadillac Chevrolet Dodge Ford Henry J Hudson Mercury Oldsmobile Plymouth Pontiac) Fonty Flock - 10 (Buick Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Ford Henry J Hudson Mercury Oldsmobile Pontiac) Junior Johnson - 10 (Cadillac Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Ford Hudson Mercury Oldsmobile Plymouth Pontiac) Ralph Liguori - 10 (Buick Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Ford Hudson Lincoln Mercury Oldsmobile Plymouth) Herb Thomas - 10 (Buick Chevrolet Chrysler Dodge Ford Hudson Oldsmobile Packard Plymouth Pontiac) Curtis Turner - 10 (Buick Chevrolet Ford Hudson Lincoln Mercury Nash Oldsmobile Plymouth Pontiac) Among drivers who competed in the modern era, it looks like Dave Marcis and Morgan Shepherd with nine manufacturers each lead the way... 1248. BON GORDON posted: 07.24.2013 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Sry DSFF but Jeff is definitely better than Bobby Allison as far as having a better career. Four Championships to one. More competition with more wins as well. Bobby Allison is ranked 7th on my list behind Petty, Pearson, Sr., Gordon, Yarborough, and JJ. Hendrick may be the best team but Gordon hasn't had the best cars from there in a long time. Bobby Allison still had to have pretty good equipment to rack up those numbers. Every driver who is ranked up there on the all-time best is a great driver but also had great equipment. 1249. Sean posted: 07.24.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oops. Buck Baker competed in the modern era. I did know that and forgot. Jim Paschal also did, which I did not know. 1250. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bon, you have to consider their career arcs. You have one guy with the ultimate consistency in a ride, and the ultimate nomad. The fact Bobby is even close to Jeff says Bobby is better. And cjs, we weren't infuriated in 1990 because Dale lost the chance to win the Winston Million, or lost the chance to win 2 (or is it 3?) "majors" in a year, we were infuriated because HE HAD THE DAYTONA FREAKING 500 WON AND RAN OVER A RANDOM PIECE OF BELL HOUSING GOING INTO THE FINAL SET OF TURNS ON THE FINAL LAP AFTER LEADING 155 OF THE FIRST 199 LAPS!!! You think any of us care about this arbitrary "major" garbage? That was the most epic of the epic brutality losses in the history of racing, and the history of sports. 1251. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.24.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also cjs, although I am missing the Eldora race, somebody on facebook posted the graphic showing that Kenny Wallace has 344 Cup wins. You need to update your greatest ever list. 1252. David posted: 07.24.2013 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jim Paschal also did, which I did not know." Yep. Started one race in 1972. I think it was the 600, but I could be wrong. 1253. BON GORDON posted: 07.24.2013 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The race at Eldora is awesome so far. It's literally lap after lap of excitement. And I don't care for Kyle Larson. I'll take Ken Schrader, Kenny Wallace, Dave Blaney, or Ron Hornaday. Larson looks strong so far but Blaney is right on his coat tails in second spot. 1254. BON GORDON posted: 07.24.2013 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not necessarily DSFF. the you can say Earnhardt, Johnson, and Yarborough aren't as good as Allison either and that's definitely not true. It's more difficult to rank Allison because he only has one championship. Johnson has five straight, Yarborough four straight, and Gordon has more wins and titles in less starts and he has much more competition than Allison did. The one thing Allison does have going for him is how he won with a lot of different teams, he has a lot of T5s and T10s, and he was competitive virtually his entire career. But Gordon has had much more of an impact on the sport. Like I said before has Jeff has more wins and titles and also has been competitive his entire career like Allison. 1255. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Actually BON GORDON, Cale won three consecutive titles, not four as you stated. Saying that, Cale's run was superior to Jimmie Johnson's three decades later for one obvious reason. He actually had to perform in ALL the races since they all counted toward the title, not just the last 10. And could Allison's driving for so many teams, which others claim as a blessing actually be somewhat of a curse? Could it be that he just didn't want to be with the same owner very long. After all, if I remember right, only two teams ever actually fired him. One was Holman-Moody (in Bobby's first stint there) and the other was Roger Penske because Bobby suffered injuries in a non-Cup event, which got him fired because of the very thing that got him hired to drive for Penske in the first place, Gary Bettenhausen's sprint car crash while he drove Penske's IndyCars and stock cars. Every other team with which he had a parting of the ways, except for the Stavola Brothers, he left on his own. And DSFF, Dale's loss in the 1990 was certainly one of the worst breaks in racing history, but I can't say it was THE worst because there were others equally as devastating, if no moreso. But that one was the worst I can recall in my nearly 25 years of watching NASCAR. But others included what happened to Mario and Michael Andretti in the Indianapolis 500 in 1987 and '92 respectively, Fireball Roberts losing the 1961 Daytona 500 as a result of his starter falling off, bouncing on the track and puncturing his oil tank, Junior Johnson's loss in the 1963 World 600 when he ran over debris thrown from the stands, Parnelli Jones losing the 1967 Indianapolis 500 when a $6 ball bearing failed with four laps to go after leading 171 laps, Ralph dePalma losing the second Indianapolis 500 in 1912 after leading 196 consecutive laps and having a five lap lead on the field when a connecting rod broke. All those were at least on a par with Earnhardt's defeat in the 1990 Daytona 500. But what made that so historically devastating was what happened later on that season, because if not for that, he would have swept the plate races (he handily won the other three) and won the Winston Million by winning three of the sport's four crown jewel races, which made Earnhardt's cut tire on the final lap of the 1990 Daytona 500 about a $1.1 million cut tire, $1.1 million being about the difference between winning the Daytona 500 and finishing fifth, combined with the difference between winning two of the crown jewel races and winning three of them. (As part of the Winston Million program, any driver that won two of the specified races got a $100,000 bonus, which Earnhardt did cash in on at Darlington.) 1256. BON GORDON posted: 07.25.2013 - 12:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh sorry yea I meant three straight titles for Cale. Jimmie may be a ten race champion but he's still the champion for those five years. It's not like he didn't run well those five years. Jeff, Carl, and Kevin Harvick all suffered from it not being a 36 race season a little bit, especially Jeff in 2007 but I'm not gonna take anything away from what they have achieved. I just don't think Allison should be higher than the drivers I listed ahead of him. God did I just stick up for Johnson. It's like the Bizzaro world all of a sudden. 1257. 83andJoe posted: 07.25.2013 - 5:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) > I, unlike most fans, actually like Miller because even though he is full of shit half the time (well over half the time?) you at least know where he stands on things...and the standards for racing journalism have sunk so deep in the toilet I'll actually take somebody like Miller over most of the alternatives, which I admit is pathetic. Robin Miller believes NASCAR has "The Call", so we can rule him out straightaway. >I never watched many ASA races, but I found that series much more appealing nd it produced talent after talent after talent... A lot of the old ASA on TNN races are on Youtube, they're well worth a watch. (They'll also show you that the things we complain about existed then too - the 1997 Jennerstown 300 broadcast ends with the top 10 results being shown...and /that's it/. Ralph Sheheen is a seriously underrated announcer though.) It's a shame that ASA's management managed to kill off the series; although their running races at SMI's 1.5mi tracks in their final season (replacing ARCA, I belive) is a headscratcher... >ARCA needs to model itself after the old ASA Tour with a lot more short tracks You might want to look up the ARCA Midwest Tour. Up until last year it was the ASA Midwest Tour, and it's very much the spiritual successor to the old ASA National Tour. Shame it's never televised... >I wish USAR Pro Cup was televised With 12-car fields, it's understandable why they're not. Also, that series is jinxed anyway - it grew out of Humpy Wheeler's old NASCAR Limited Sportsman series, which has got to be the most star-crossed (and possibly the most lethal) racing series in history. >and can't understand why ARCA has a higher profile, since I'm sure it has worse racing, and racing that reflects talent significantly less. That is because John Marcum hitched his series' star to NASCAR, and it rode NASCAR's coattails to fame. And ("ARCA Brakes" aside) the 1990s races are pretty good - it's only when the gen-4 Cup cars started getting handed down that it really went to pot (gee, wonder why). 1258. 83andJoe posted: 07.25.2013 - 5:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, by the by, this is scheduled for part of ESPN's Brickyard coverage. "Danica inspires and finds inspiration despite a lifetime of criticism" Danica Patrick has faced criticism her entire career. Despite breaking gender boundaries and setting records, (first woman to lead the Indianapolis 500, first woman to start on the pole for the Daytona 500) her career continues to be scrutinized. The intense criticism she has always faced is examined as is the way she motivates herself and has inspired a young generation of racers who look up to her." Somebody pass me the Donny Lia bucket please. 1259. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.25.2013 - 6:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK! *passes Donny Lia bucket to 83andJoe* I love one of Robin Miller's quotes. When NASCAR announced they were going to bank Phoenix because the drivers weren't good enough to handle the turns, he referred to NASCARs as "Turds on Wheels". 1260. Baker posted: 07.25.2013 - 6:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darrell Waltrip over David Pearson? Please tell me you are not serious... 1261. Scott B posted: 07.25.2013 - 10:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I understand why ARCA wants to run the superspeedways, so they can promote themselves as a stepping stone to the upper tier NASCAR series, and as a place where you can see rising stars race. Unfortunately, the affordability issues that go along with that have turned it into a playground for a few well funded teams to steamroller over the competition. For the few "future stars" being groomed by Cup owners, it's actually pretty useless as a tool to get a fix on the real level of talent or preparedness of the young drivers. 1262. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Darrell Waltrip over David Pearson? Please tell me you are not serious..." Oh he's serious. See, Pearson "didn't face enough competition" because The Fox never had to win a Southern 500 by making a late race pass over the legendary Hut Strickland driving for the legendary Stavola Brothers (no offense to either, dominating that race was a triumph of the human spirit, but that just shows Pearson had much more competition in his heyday than #2 on his list). While Peasron won championships and races while facing still in their primes legends such as Petty, Junior, Lorenzen, Fireball, Ned, Cale, Leroy, Isaac, Bobby, Buddy, Benny, and Darrell. As for Darrell, his best days were in the late 70's when the competition was very top heavy, with only Cale as a legend in his absolute prime in good equipment (who took him to the woodshed at the time), Bobby in his prime but stuck with inconsistent equipment, Benny in his prime but never in great equipment, and the beginning to fade dynamic duo of Petty and Pearson. Rudd and Bill were driving pieces of junk, then in '79 Earmhardt showed up young and wilder than hell yet he still won a Winston Cup before Darrell. Then his peak as a driver ('81-'84 2 championships, 37 wins) came during arguably NASCAR's least competitive period. It was just him and a beginning to fade, still nomadic Bobby. The generation of drivers that would make up NASCAR's most competitive era ( Earnhardt, Bill, Rusty, Mark, Tim, Bodine, Davey, Harry, The Rooster, Ernie, Terry) were either just getting warmed up, not even in Winston Cup yet, or battling for the '84 Winston Cup title which is alongside '91 and '02 as "does anybody want this damn thing?" titles. 1263. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.25.2013 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy birthday to the funniest winner in NASCAR history, Dick Passwater, who turns 88 today. He is second only to Glen Wood for oldest living winner. 1264. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.25.2013 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) To agree with DSFF, guys like James Hylton, John Sears, and Dick Brooks, despite having few or no wins, were a pain in the @$$ to pass, more so than about 95% of the drivers since. People rag me for saying Sears, G.C. Spencer, and Neil Castles were tier 2 talents, but when you get 50 top-5s in just 300 starts in a self-owned, outdated car with used (and sometimes borrowed) parts, you are damn good. 1265. The Long Shot posted: 07.25.2013 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And I thought the late Dick Trickle was unfortunately named. 1266. David posted: 07.25.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is recommended reading. It's an interesting study of double-file restarts. 1267. David posted: 07.25.2013 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Updated Top Ten List of Greatest Cup Series Drivers: 1. Richard Petty T-2. David Pearson T-2. Dale Earnhardt 4. Bobby Allison 5. Herb Thomas 6. Lee Petty 7. Jeff Gordon T-8. Cale Yarborough (when it came to part-time schedules, he was Pearson lite) T-8. Jimmie Johnson 10. Darrell Waltrip 1268. BON GORDON posted: 07.25.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Oh jeez here we go again...My Top Ten: #1. Richard Petty #2. David Pearson #3. Dale Earnhardt #4. Jeff Gordon #5. Cale Yarborough #6. Jimmie Johnson #7. Bobby Allison #8. Darrell Waltrip #9. Herb Thomas #10. Lee Petty 1269. David posted: 07.25.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, BON GORDON, we can at least agree on who's in the top ten. The order is up for debate, but we've got the same drivers in our respective lists. 1270. The Long Shot posted: 07.25.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm by no means qualified to make this list, but here are mine: 1. Richard Petty 2. Dale Earnhardt 3. David Pearson 4. Lee Petty 5. Jeff Gordon 6. Cale Yarborough 7. Bobby Allison 8. Herb Thomas 9. Darrell Waltrip 10. Fireball Roberts 1271. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.25.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If I go with the Marvin Panch list of NASCAR drivers, I have to do something like this: 1. Curtis Turner 2. Fireball Roberts 2. Junior Johnson 2. Fred Lorenzen 1272. David posted: 07.25.2013 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Define "qualified", Long Shot. 1273. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Not me, David and BON GORDON. I have Lee Petty in the mid-teens on my list, while I do have the other nine in my top ten. The other driver I have is Junior Johnson. While Lee certainly was a history-making driver (the first Daytona 500 winner, the first 3-time champion, the first to 50 wins), he certainly did not have his greatest success until 1958, which was after all of the others among the top quartet in NASCAR's first generation (Lee's contemporaries) all won their last championships. Herb Thomas won both of his titles before Lee even got his first, and Tim Flock and Buck Baker won their championships before Lee went back-to-back. In fact, I have not only Junior Johnson and Thomas ahead of Lee Petty, but also Buck Baker and Fireball Roberts. Much of Lee's success came after Herb Thomas' terrible accident, and after Tim Flock decided to only race occasionally. Lee would probably be in the top 6-8 on a driver/contributor list, because he laid the groundwork for Richard Petty's career, but as a driver, I have him ranked in the mid-teens. 1274. BON GORDON posted: 07.25.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David in my opinion I think the drivers we have in our ten are the greatest NASCAR Cup drivers of all-time. Our order may slightly differ but I think you have a solid list. There are many many arguments on why drivers could be ranked in their respective spots. 1275. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is mine: 1) Dale Earnhardt 2) Richard Petty 3) David Pearson (I consider the above to be the "holy trinity" of NASCAR history, honestly any order of these three atop a list makes it ok in my book, I just feel Dale got more from equipment than anyone else) 4) Bobby Allison 5) Herb Thomas 6) Lee Petty 7) Cale Yarborough 8) Darrell Waltrip (The "legends among legends" to me) 9) Jimmie Johnson 10) Jeff Gordon (The Hendrick Duo, two outstanding drivers whose true ability to wheel a car will never be truly known until the day that will never happen for either, the day they step out from Rick's overpowering shadow of power) 1276. BON GORDON posted: 07.25.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see you finally put Jeff in your top ten DSSF. Last year I think you had him 11th or so. 1277. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.25.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To change things up a bit, here's my top 10 list of the greatest drivers who have never won a Cup race: 1. John Sears 2. Dick Trickle 3. J.D. McDuffie 4. Buddy Arrington 5. Jimmy Means 6. Cecil Gordon 7. Rick Mast 8. Ted Musgrave 9. AJ Allmendinger 10. Dave Blaney Before anybody mentions it, I have Allmendinger in 9th because I took into consideration how he has had success in Champ Car, Nationwide Series, and was in contention to win this year's Indianapolis 500. Sure the beginning of his Cup career as well as this time last year were disastrous for him, but he has run very well in races like Dover in the fall of 2010 and Richmond earlier this year. So it would come as a surprise that he hasn't won a Cup race yet considering his success in other racing series. 1278. David posted: 07.25.2013 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, would you look at that !! DSFF has the same drivers as me and BON GORDON. And he and I agree on 4-6. So, if you averaged the ranks of our three lists, you would get: 1. Richard Petty (1.333) 2. Dale Earnhardt (2) 3. David Pearson (2.333) 4. Bobby Allison (5) 5. Herb Thomas (6.333) 6. Cale Yarborough (6.667) 7. Jeff Gordon (7) 8. Lee Petty (7.333) 9. Jimmie Johnson (7.667) 10. Darrell Waltrip (8.667) Looks good to me. :) 1279. David posted: 07.25.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I see you finally put Jeff in your top ten DSSF. Last year I think you had him 11th or so." He had Junior Johnson in 10th (I think), ahead of Jeff. But he bumped him out. One Johnson is enough on a top ten list. :) 1280. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.25.2013 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1. John Sears 2. Dick Trickle 3. J.D. McDuffie 4. Buddy Arrington 5. Jimmy Means 6. Cecil Gordon 7. Rick Mast 8. Ted Musgrave 9. AJ Allmendinger 10. Dave Blaney Jimmy Means was a pretty mediocre driver overall. Also, how can you not have G.C. Spencer and Neil Castles on here when they have the highest number of top-5s of non-winners. 1281. JG24FanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) "1) Dale Earnhardt 2) Richard Petty 3) David Pearson (I consider the above to be the "holy trinity" of NASCAR history, honestly any order of these three atop a list makes it ok in my book, I just feel Dale got more from equipment than anyone else) 4) Bobby Allison 5) Herb Thomas 6) Lee Petty 7) Cale Yarborough 8) Darrell Waltrip (The "legends among legends" to me) 9) Jimmie Johnson 10) Jeff Gordon (The Hendrick Duo, two outstanding drivers whose true ability to wheel a car will never be truly known until the day that will never happen for either, the day they step out from Rick's overpowering shadow of power)" I can't agree with a list that has Herb Thomas in fifth and Tim Flock is excluded. Gordon's record of 600+ wins before he ever reached Nascar and his overwhelming success at every type of track in Nascar proves his ability. Here's what Bobby Allison's Top 2 greatest ever looks like in his own words!: 1. Himself 2. Jeff Gordon You putting Gordon in tenth is more ridiculous than cjs3872 putting Pearson in seventh. Still love you though:) 1282. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.25.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jimmy Means was a pretty mediocre driver overall. Also, how can you not have G.C. Spencer and Neil Castles on here when they have the highest number of top-5s of non-winners." Good point. When I was making this list, I was thinking of the more well-known winless drivers, and I unfortunately overlooked these two. Neil Castles was able to finish fourth in the 1970 standings due to just pure consistency. He was able to post results much like James Hylton, which is why if Hylton had never won a race in his career I would have him ranked first. In fact, Hylton finished in the top five in points 9 times in his career, which showed how consistent he was, despite hardly winning. And about G.C. Spencer, I feel bad for forgetting to list him. He currently holds the record for most second place finishes without ever winning (7). Also his career-best points result is fourth in 1965. Definitely very underrated. And on that note, my revised list: 1. G.C. Spencer 2. John Sears 3. J.D. McDuffie 4. Dick Trickle 5. Neil Castles 6. Buddy Arrington 7. Cecil Gordon 8. Ted Musgrave 9. AJ Allmendinger 10. Dave Blaney 1283. JG24FanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "If I go with the Marvin Panch list of NASCAR drivers, I have to do something like this: 1. Curtis Turner 2. Fireball Roberts 2. Junior Johnson 2. Fred Lorenzen" Why would Glen Wood,Tim Flock,Bill France and Marvin Panch all consider Turner to be the best ever driver if he wasn't all that great? I know no-one wants to give any credit to his 38 wins in 79 races he had,running the Convertible division. With a 24-0 record in 1-2 finishes against the 1962-63 Grand national champion Joe Weatherly. Who was in identical equipment as Turner,most of there time running the rag-tops. He didn't win the Convertible championship in 1956 because he missed 5 races due to his team boycotting Nascar. And Turner would have won the 1954 Southern 500 easily if his pit crew didn't gaff up the last pit-stop. And Turner won with 9 different teams in Grand National over a very distracted, and part-time career. 1284. murb posted: 07.25.2013 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) In my opinion, you CANNOT have a "Greatest Cup Non Winners" list without having Mike Skinner on it. I would have him on instead of someone like Allmendinger (who is still active and for the most part isn't that far along into his career). 1285. JG24FanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "you CANNOT have a "Greatest Cup Non Winners" list without having Mike Skinner on it." The amazing thing is that he actually beat Jeff Gordon at Motegi in 1998,and won at the Suzuka short-course in 1997. Technically,he's already a proven winner. 1286. cjs3872 posted: 07.25.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) SpeedWorld97, explain to me how A.J. Allmendinger's IndyCar career has any impact on how he's fared in NASCAR, and how it would impact a list of NASCAR's best, which in this case, is a list of those that never won a race (to date). If that was the case, Donnie Allison would be on my top 40 list, and Bobby Allison and Cale Yarborough would be lower, because Bobby and Cale both flopped at Indy while Donnie finished fourth and sixth in his two Indy starts. A list of NASCAR drivers should be about what they do in NASCAR, and only in NASCAR. 1287. murb posted: 07.25.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The amazing thing is that he actually beat Jeff Gordon at Motegi in 1998,and won at the Suzuka short-course in 1997. Technically,he's already a proven winner." Well, if we're counting exhibition wins as legit wins, then that will change just about everybody's list. Dick Trickle won the Winston Open one year, so by this logic you would have to exclude him from the list too. Same with Todd Bodine, who is another guy that many people have high up on their lists of greatest Cup non-winners. 1288. JG24FanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://racing-reference.info/race/1956-46/V The only race in Nascar history with just one finisher. 1289. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.25.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I see what you mean, cjs3872, and I realize making that comparison wasn't a great idea. So I'll focus on only his Cup career. He's been in the series for his seventh season, and in that time span, he has run well on numerous occasions. He was running very well in the 2009 Daytona 500, eventually finishing third. At Watkins Glen in 2010 he ran among the leaders all day and finished fourth. At Dover in September of that same year he dominated, leading 143 of the first 171 laps before a flat tire put him so far behind that he couldn't come back to challenge for a win. At Martinsville in April of 2012 he avoided all of the late race carnage and almost closed in on Newman for the win but had to settle for second. And don't forget last April at Richmond when on the gwc restart he attempted a 3 wide pass for the lead on much older tires, which caused him to finish 14th. It's races like these that make me rank him among the top ten best to never win a Cup race, and I should have clarified that earlier. 1290. JG24FanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 10:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Have fun with this. Top 30 favorite video Games: -1. The Legend of Zelda -2. Majora's Mask -3. Resident Evil--ALL Versions -4. Twilight Princess -5. Silent Hill -6. Resident Evil 2 -7. Resident Evil 3: Nemesis -8. Dino Crisis 2 -9. Super Metroid 10. Resident Evil 4 11. Symphony of the Night 12. Ocarina of Time 13. A Link to the Past 14. Skyward Sword 15. Final Fantasy VII 16. Super Mario All-Stars 17. Shadowrun---Genesis version 18. Castlevania Bloodlines 19. Resident Evil Zero 20. Silent Hill 2 21. Metal Gear Solid 22. Chrono Cross 23. Super Mario Bros. 24. Super Mario Bros. 3 25. Dino Crisis 26. Eternal Darkness 27. Adventures of Link 28. The Wind Waker 29. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty 30. Yoshi's Island 1291. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.25.2013 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since we're all making lists, here's one I think everyone will like: Top ten most disliked people/things by the members on this site (1-most, 10-least) 1. Danica Patrick 2. Rick Hendrick 3. Jimmie Johnson 4. Brian France 5. Kyle Busch (during Nationwide races especially) 6. FOX as a whole (DW, Michael Waltrip, their horrible coverage) 7. ESPN and their unnecessary hype 8. John Wes Townley 9. Steve Wallace 10. Paul Menard 1292. The Long Shot posted: 07.25.2013 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SpeedWorld97, you forgot Chad Knaus. This is what it should look like: 1. Chad Knaus 2. Jimmie Johnson 3. Danica Patrick 4. Brian France 5. Rick Hendrick 6. Michael Waltrip 7. BSPN 8. Kyle Busch 9. Steve Wallace 10. Joey Logano 1293. The Long Shot posted: 07.25.2013 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Define "qualified", Long Shot." I'm probably one of the least intelligent people on here when it comes to pre-1975 NASCAR. I know next to nothing about old-school drivers like Herb Thomas and Curtis Turner. 1294. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) You can definitely have a greatest driver never to win a race list without Skinner. To me, all his non points wins HURTS his case. Here is my list of worst drivers to win a "major" race* 1) Michael Waltrip 2) Paul Menard 3) Casey Mears 4) David Reutimann 5) Derrike Cope *I don't count the Spring Dega race as a "major". If we are gonna cry and moan that the chase isn't diverse enough (and it isn't), then we shouldn't show reverence towards a list, a small list, that has a 500 mile race at Daytona and a 500 mile race at Dega. And for the record, I probably put the least amount of weight on finishes in "major" races of anyone here. I mean honestly, once those drivers strap on their helmets, do you really think they want to win a race any less than any others once the adrenaline starts flowing? And if they do, then that means they pick and choose when they will give their all behind the wheel (like a modern day Jeff Gordon to be perfectly honest), so that lowers their value in my book. Take a look at the first two races of 1996. While the Daytona 500 is THE race and Rockingham is "just another race", Dale still knocked the piss out of Bobby Hamilton to win Rockingham. Does anyone here really believe that, in the heat of battle, Dale wanted the Rockingham win less than he wanted to win the Daytona 500? To a true driver, like Petty, Earnhardt, and Gordon through 2007, EVERY race was the Daytona 500 for them. 1295. JG24FanForever posted: 07.25.2013 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I probably put the least amount of weight on finishes in "major" races of anyone here. I mean honestly, once those drivers strap on their helmets, do you really think they want to win a race any less than any others once the adrenaline starts flowing?" All-time wins by track type: Plate wins: Jeff Gordon 12 Flat Track wins: Jeff Gordon 15 Road-course wins: Jeff Gordon 9 Short-track wins: Richard Petty 108 (Darrell Waltrip has 47 in the Modern era) Dirt-track wins: Lee Petty 42 Superspeedway (1 mile or more) wins: Jeff Gordon 63 Superspeedway (2 miles or more) wins: Jeff Gordon 27 Superspeedway (2.5 miles or more) wins: Jeff Gordon 22 Chase wins: Jimmie Johnson 22 1296. David posted: 07.26.2013 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Sean puts even less emphasis on "majors" than you do. I think Red does, too (but we haven't seen him around here in a LONG time). 1297. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 6:22 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) Well if we are making lists of top 10 greatest, here are mine: (I know I've posted this before, but I will go into more detail this time). 1. Richard Petty---incredible career, obviously. 200 wins, 7 championships, 7 Daytona 500s and 2 other major wins. In my opinion, no competition. 2. Jeff Gordon---yes, better than Earnhardt, better than Pearson. Sorry I'm not sorry. 87 wins (and counting probably), 4 championships, 3 Daytona 500s, and (by my count) 20 other major wins. Simply incredible. 3. Dale Earnhardt---obviously one of the greatest, it goes without saying, but the fact he is so low on the all-time wins list bothers me. Even if he hadn't passed away I don't think he would have ever reached Allison, Waltrip, or Yarborough in career wins. Still though 76 wins, 7 championships, the 1998 Daytona 500, and 13 other major wins isn't anything to be ashamed of. 4. David Pearson---should probably be number two or three is what most of you would say, but not running more full seasons hurt him in my opinion. 105 wins, 3 championships, the 1976 Daytona 500, and 9 other major wins. 5. Jimmie Johnson---hate the guy, but you can't deny his greatness. I almost threw up writing that last sentence. 64 wins (and, regrettably, counting), 5 championships (and probably counting), 2 Daytona 500s, and 12 major wins. 6. Cale Yarborough---most of you would say he should be ahead of Johnson, but the fact that Johnson did what he Yarborough then and then some pushed him ahead---83 wins, 3 championships, 4 Daytona 500s, and 7 other major wins. 7. Bobby Allison---regrettable that he didn't have a more stable career or he could probably be number 2 easily. 84/85 wins, 1983 champion, 3 Daytona 500s, and 10 other major wins. 8. Darrell Waltrip---most of you hate him (which I don't understand), but you can't deny he was one of the best ever. 84 wins, 3 championships, 1989 Daytona 500, and 9 other major wins. 9. Herb Thomas---highest winning percentage of all time in NASCAR. 48 wins, 2 championships, and 3 Southern 500s when that race WAS the ONLY major race. 10. Lee Petty---I think winning the Southern 500 would have helped him on my list, but still a great. 54 wins, 3 championships, and the winner of the first ever Daytona 500 in 1959. Some notes: I actually have a formula I used to come up with this list, but I won't go into that. Like most things in life, it is flawed and contains a lot of my own personal bias such as what races I consider to be major races*. I am more of a numbers guy when it comes to making lists, more than an analyzation type of guy, though I've noticed that, despite which approach you take, if you made a list of the top-15 drivers most would probably be the same. As for a list of greatest non-winners, I can't even begin to make such a list because I, unfortunately, don't pay much attention to those who have never won. Also, I welcome discussion and disagreement, but please don't tell my I'm wrong (I know that seems contradictory, but to me there is a difference between disagreement and telling someone their subjective opinion is wrong). It's my own point of view and it can't, by definition, be wrong. *races that *I* consider major: Daytona 500, spring Talladega, Southern 500 (even the non Labor Day ones), All-Star Race, Coke 600, and Brickyard 400 (no matter how boring it is). 1298. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.26.2013 - 6:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) One question Zach, does the "Hendrick Discount" figure in your rankings? 1299. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 7:07 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "One question Zach, does the "Hendrick Discount" figure in your rankings?" Well in order for me to answer that I'd need to know what that was...If you're talking about some employee discount, thus employing that I work for them and, as a result, ranked Gordon, Johnson, and maybe even Waltrip so high, then the answer is resounding....NO. I'm a broke college student in Auburn, Alabama. I wish I worked for Hendrick Motorsports, it's probably good money. If you were referring to something else, then please elaborate. 1300. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 7:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) *employing in post #1299 should be implying. ARGGHHHH. I hate it when I make typos. 1301. Mr X posted: 07.26.2013 - 7:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I found a very cool 10 minute 2 part YouTube video from the Discovery Channel show How It's Made at work today, they managed to convince the people at the Roush Yates engine shop to let them document the assembly and some dyno time for an FR9. The video is pretty over simplified for me but it's still cool. If you're as into engines as I am this is borderline pornography, and I'm not even a Ford person. I would still love to get my hands on one of these engines. Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIeNiHz2Jb4 Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=relmfu&v=ieX0mKjfnCY You're Welcome. If this turns up more than once it's due to an iffy Internet connection and I do apologize. 1302. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 7:25 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) And DSFF, don't think that I mean any disrespect toward Dale Earnhardt. I can't say I liked him when I first started watching NASCAR way back in kindergarten because I was and still am a huge Labonte brother fan (mostly because I thought their last name was "the bunny" instead of Labonte) and one of my first NASCAR memories is that infamous race at Bristol in 1999. It's still vivid, even though I was only 6, how I was cheering for Terry and the next thing I knew that evil man in the black number 3 had turned him out of the way. But I cried when he died and I still remember that day vividly as well and where I was when I found out. Dale Jr. is my current favorite driver, though he leave a lot to be desired. If you could see my room you would see that I have a Dale Sr./Jr. clock that's based on the Coca-Cola cars they ran in Japan in 1998 (?), a plaque that has an actual raced tire from the Intimidator, and a Dale Earnhardt trash can. The bottom line of all this...I mean no disrespect toward Earnhardt despite that horrid memory he left me with after Bristol in 1999 as a six year old. I just legitimately think Gordon is the better driver. 1303. The Long Shot posted: 07.26.2013 - 10:23 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) As stats go, I agree that Gordon is better than Earnhardt and maybe Pearson, although that's mainly because he was driving for the power-house Hendrick Motorsports. But, if you're talking about talent and driving ability, I personally would take both Earnhardt and Pearson over Gordon, and it's not even close. As for Johnson at #5, again, as stats go, that's probably where he should be. But as talent goes (and again, this is just my opinion), he shouldn't even be in the Top 10. If he wasn't driving for Hendrick, I can't see him having more than 20 career wins. 1304. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 10:35 am Rate this comment: (4) (1) Zackary, I think DSFF refers to all the cheating Hendrick's teams have been accused of, if not flatly caught ding over the years. That's why he has a distorted view of Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. But if you're going to use that theory, then how about doing the same for guys like Cale Yarborough and Darrell Waltrip, because who knows how much of what they did when they drove for Junior Johnson was done with cheated-up cars, because everyone knows just what a cheater Junior Johnson was. And then there's Bobby Allison, who drove for numerous teams known for cheating, such as Johnson (when Richard Howard owned the team), Mario Rossi, and DiGard Racing, who also had the services of Waltrip. And even Richard Petty was accused of cheating more often than you might think, as was actually caught in 1983 at Charlotte with an oversized engine and illegally mounted tires. And Petty's team did that as much as a protest against what Junior Johnson was doing, as much as anything else. And in the fall race at Charlotte in 1973, both Yarborough, who won, and Petty, who finished second, were found to have oversized engines in that race, and NASCAR did not penalize either team in that case, which caused Bobby Allison to nearly leave NASCAR due to their officiating policies. So if you're going to penalize some drivers who may have driven for teams that have a shady history when it comes to cheating, you can't ignore other drivers who drove for other car owners with a similar, if not an even more shady history in that regard. 1305. BON GORDON posted: 07.26.2013 - 12:19 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Agreed CJS. DSSF has to realize especially back in the day a lot of drivers and teams cheated just as much if not more than the Hendrick motorsports drivers ever did. I'm sorry there's nothing you can take away from Jeff Gordon. He won a lot of his races by not even having the best car. 1998 was a perfect example. Those Roush Fords were just so fast. I forget who said it, I think it was Felix Sabates but he said if Gordon raced Fords he'd be unstoppable. 20 wins or more. I always felt Jeff Gordon got more out of a bad car better than anyone, even Dale Earnhardt. I'm not saying Gordon has never had the best car in a season. 1995, 1996, 1997, 2001, 2003, and 2004 I think Gordon had the best car in the field. Years like 1998 I feel like he had the second best car behind Mark Martin's #6. However, he was the best driver and got the most out of the car. Darrell Waltrip had the best team in the early 80s when he was with Junior Johnson and he won those two titles in 81 and 82. Dale Earnhardt had the best team in 1987, 1990 (sorry Mark Martin), and 1993. And so on 1306. David posted: 07.26.2013 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Ooooh, cjs just called DSFF's view "distorted". It's on now. I had a tough time figuring out 7-10 on my list because of the Hendrick and Johnson discounts. 1307. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.26.2013 - 12:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I mentioned somewhere that Chad Knaus has literally been "caught" cheating more times than Petty Enterprises, Junior Johnson, Smokey Yunick, Mario Rossi, and DiGard COMBINED. 1308. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 1:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) It is, David. The reason I call his a "distorted" view is WHY he places Gordon and Johnson where he does. If it was because that's where they belonged on an all-time list based on their accomplishments, that's one thing, but he places them where he does because of what he views as "excessive cheating" on the part of their team. And while that is certainly the case with Jimmie more than Jeff, I don't think it's a legitimate reason to penalize them on an all-time driver list, especially when you don't consider the same thing when you look back on the accomplishments of Cale Yarborough, Darrell Waltrip, and Bobby Allison, because they all raced for shady organizations when it came to the rules, Cale for Junior Johnson, Darrell for Junior Johnson and DiGard, and Bobby Allison for Junior Johnson, DiGard, Mario Rossi, and Penske (remember the 1974 season finale?). As the old saying goes, "you can't have it both ways". And I've never penalized, nor will I penalize a driver because of what members of the teams he races on does, because unless the cheating is blatant (such as the engine infractions from 1973 and '83 I mentioned earlier), it's really not going to make a difference. And let's not forget that Herb Thomas, who most consider the greatest driver of NASCAR's first decade, had Smokey Yunick, one of the sport's biggest cheaters, working for him during his best years. Yet I've never heard anything mentioned about that. 1309. The Long Shot posted: 07.26.2013 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Going a bit off topic here, Ryan Sieg and RSS Racing will be running the Nationwide race this weekend. This could partially explain why Sieg did not run the Truck race at Eldora on Wednesday. Other drivers running the Nationwide race include Truck Series veteran David Starr for Viva Motorsports, former Nationwide champion David Green for SR2 Motorsports, and underdog Carl Long for Mike Harmon Racing. 1310. David posted: 07.26.2013 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Daaaarrrn. I forgot completely about Thomas working with Smokey Yunick. *turns to list, considers revisions* 1311. ch posted: 07.26.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Going a bit off topic here, Ryan Sieg and RSS Racing will be running the Nationwide race this weekend. This could partially explain why Sieg did not run the Truck race at Eldora on Wednesday." I think that the deal for the #39 with RCR was planned well in advance. The dirt track mods for the truck would have taken time, and money for the RSS team, which would explain why the #93 skipped the race too. The NW deal does, however, explain why the #93 has been S&Ping with the #38. The #38 truck appears to be funding the #39 truck, as usual, and the money from S&Ping the #93 truck looks to have been spent on the NW program. This is a perfect example of how S&P should be used, and I have no problems with teams, like TriStar / The Motorsports Group, who use S&P this way. I'm glad to see Sieg moving up, although I wish that a bigger team would have given him a shot so that he didn't have to do it with the family team. 1312. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Carl Long for Mike Harmon Racing." Mike must have an appearance in court on Saturday. Haha. Just joking. Speaking of Harmon, on a more serious level, is anybody else annoyed that the public at large seems to base their opinion of NASCAR on the trashy redneckedness that sometimes permeates from our sport like that of him and Jennifer Jo Cobb? It's not a majority by any means, but that seems to be the perception. I mean we have the NYC sophistication of Gordon and Johnson, the genuine redneckedness of Dale Jr. and the color character of Keselowski among many others, but all people like Harmon and Cobb do is reinforce negative stereotypes about NASCAR and I hate it. 1313. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) David, I'm just saying that if you're not going to penalize someone like Thomas or anyone else that drove for Smokey Yunick (like Fireball Roberts), or guys that drove for Junior Johnson, then you can't penalize guys that have driven for Hendrick Motorsports, as far as marking them down any all-time list because of suspected cheating. And speaking of Hendrick Motorsports, Jeff Gordon, as I predicted, is slow again this week, since the series is on a big track. As I said, he has to get through Michigan. If he doesn't pick up his pace, running in the top 15 might be challenging, and I fear the same may be true at Pocono and Michigan. However, Brad Keselowski isn't doing much better, as he's down there with Gordon on the speed charts, and Tony Stewart actually fared worse than either Gordon or Keselowski did in the first practice. Of course, it could be worse for Gordon, Keselowski, or Stewart. They could be in Roush's cars, which are pathetically slow and uncompetitive. In fact, Ricky Stenhouse, Jr. was in the BOTTOM quarter of the practice board, and Carl Edwards and Greg Biffle weren't much better. And if qualifying is rained out tomorrow, which is a distinct possibility, one of the fastest Fords, the Wood Brothers' #21 driven by Trevor Bayne, won't even be in the race, as the #21 car would be one of two going home if qualifying gets rained out (the #40 of Landon Cassill would be the other). 1314. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see some people have made a list of of races they have attended, and even though I'm late I'd like to make my own list. It's very, very short. 1. 2012 Good Sam's Road Side Assistance 500, Talladega Superspeedway, Cup---the race where Tony Stewart caused the 25 car crash on the last lap by blocking Michael Waltrip. I wasn't really mad about the wreck until I got home and saw on replays it was Waltrip that Stewart blocked to cause that wreck. I would have loved to see Waltrip and Mears duke it out for the win, but it wasn't to be. Something I did notice during this race is how far the cars end up traveling during a wreck. The wreck started in the middle of 3 and 4 and ended up down where I was sitting in between turn 4 and pit road. You don't really get that perspective on TV. 2. 2013 ARCA Mobile 200, Mobile International Speedway, ARCA---pretty good little race. Lots of cautions really slowed down the pace, but I was glad to see a hometown guy win this race, Grant Enfinger. 3. 2013 Aaron's 312, Talladega Superspeedway, Nationwide---cold, wet, miserable day. But a friend of my has a rich uncle with an RV so we got to stay there and watch the race from there which was an experience. What I remember more than the race is that we were "graced" by the presence of ARCA driver Thomas Praytor in the RV. All he did was brag about the mark he put on the wall during the ARCA race the day before when he crashed. He also said he bump drafted once during that race and it "scared the hell" out of him. If bump drafting at Talladega scare you that bad, you probably should give up on this racing thing. 4. 2013 Aaron's 499, Talladega Superspeedway, Cup---enjoyable race up until the rain came on lap 123. What I remember most about this race is that, despite Kenseth leading most of it, the Ford drivers could go straight to the front when they wanted to as demonstrated just before the rain and at the end of the race. It looked like they were gonna get the track dried relatively quickly (the Air Titan was there), but then another rain storm came and they told us to evacuate due to hail and lightening. My friends and I just decided to head back to Auburn and watched the rest of the race on TV. I really wish I could have been there to see David Ragan win. Next races I want to attend...the Nationwide and Cup Atlanta races, the fall Talladega race, and the 2014 IndyCar at Barber Motorsports Park in Birmingham. As far as the NASCAR races go, even if Johnson leads every lap and wins by lapping the whole field, I'll consider them a success if I can just get a picture with the absolutely gorgeous Kim Coon, Miss Sprint Cup. 1315. David posted: 07.26.2013 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's actually pretty odd, cjs, because as slow as he may be on the big tracks, Jeff's usually pretty fast at Indianapolis. He ranked first and second there in average green-flag speed in 2011 and 2012, respectively. 1316. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 2:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, he better get going because he was mid-pack in the first practice session, and about 2-3 MPH slower than his teammates, as usual. But as I said, he's got plenty of company back there, because Brad Keselowski wasn't much better and Tony Stewart was even worse. And if qualifying does get rained out, that's how the field will be set, though Gordon and Stewart would move up two positions because both cars that would not qualify were faster than they were, and Keselowski would move up one because Trevor Bayne, who would not be in the race if qualifying gets rained out, was faster than Keselowski. Normally, I would say that Gordon could use strategy to get closer to the front, but his crew chief would cancel that out. That's why I don't worry as much about Keselowski and Stewart, because they can get up there through strategy if all else fails, but I don't think Gordon's team will play that card. Also, Kurt Busch has a fast car, but as will probably be the case, his team will probably fail him. Lost in the controversy about the incident with Ryan Newman and Matt Kenseth at Loudon is the fact that poor strategy got him back there to start with, even with the best car, and that's what led to his undoing in that race. And if poor pit strategy doesn't do him in, poor pit stops will. Matt Kenseth is looking like the favorite to win the one really big race he's never won (remember that he won the Southern 500 earlier this year, and he had never won that race previously, either). 1317. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, why would Trevor Bayne DNQ fail to make it if qualifying got rained out? He's top 36 in speed and the 21 is higher than both the 19 and 40 cars in owner points. In fact, Jayski always posts the entry lists and highlights the drivers who must make it in on speed in red and Mike Bliss in 19 and Landon Cassill in the 40 are the only two. 1318. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, Never mind I see where Jayski says the lineup for rain outs is based on attempts rather than owner points. But it also says if practice IS held, but qualifying ISN'T held then the first 36 starting spots are filled by owner points. That's not right is it? It's based on practice speed, right? 1319. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now I'm more confused than a homeless person under house arrest when it come to qualifying rain out procedure. Is it based on practice speed? Is it owner points? Are provisionals based on owner points or merely attempts? Just when I thought I was beginning to understand NASCAR's qualifying format after the confusion that was the top-35 rule. 1320. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zack, what happens in a qualifying rainout is that they first set who gets in the field by the top 36 in the owner's points, and after that, any past champion not in the field would be next. (There are no past series champions that fit this category this weekend.) After that, it goes by number of attempts a team has made, and any tie would be broken by owner's points. Then, after it's determined who gets to race, then the lineup would be set by speeds in the first practice. It's a complicated procedure, but they first determine who's in the race, then they determine the lineup. And by the way, the Wood Brothers have said that if they don't qualify for a race due to a qualifying rainout, they'll replace it on their schedule by going to a race they didn't originally intend to compete in. what that likely means is that if they don't make the race at Indy due to a rainout, they'll probably make that up by showing up at either Atlanta on Labor Day weekend or Chicago when the Chase begins. And provisionals, which would not be charged when qualifications are not held, have always been based on owner points since they were first instituted in 1976. 1321. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So the rained out lineup isn't based on practice speeds at all? Then how come Edwards got to start on pole at Talladega race I went to after qualifying was cancelled? He wasn't 1st in owner points at the time, Jimmie Johnson. That's where I'm getting confused...you say the first 36 spots are filled by points, but that clearly wasn't the case at Talladega earlier this year. Or is the top 36 in owner points get the top 36 spots in the race, but they are lined up based on practice speed? That CAN'T be the case thought because at Talladega the Wood Brothers entered in 41st place in owner's points after Richmond but started 15th at Talladega. Do you understand why this isn't making sense to me? 1322. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, I've been making a lot of typos lately. That last post by me was horrendous. Probably because I've been taking classes all summer and I'm ready to go home at this point, but jeez that was bad. Hope you can understand the point I was making CJS. 1323. The Long Shot posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary, the rained out lineup is only based purely on owner's points when no practices have been run. If at least one practice has been run, I believe the top 36 is set by practice times, then the remaining 7 spots are first given to provisional drivers (drivers highest in owner's points, past champions, etc.), and then organized by practice speeds. For example: say Jeff Gordon is higher in owner's points than Joe Nemechek, who in turn is higher in owner's points than Terry Labonte. But, let's say Gordon was slower in practice than Nemechek, who was slower than Labonte. This is how NASCAR would determine who would qualify for the race: 1. Race Winners From This Year: Gordon (let's just assume that he's won a race this year) 2. Past Champions: Labonte 3. Owner's Points: Nemechek Then, NASCAR would organize the cars who qualified for the race by practice speeds, so they would be organized like this: 1. Labonte 2. Nemechek 3. Gordon Does that make sense? 1324. The Long Shot posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ And by cars who qualified for the race, I mean the cars who are using provisionals. 1325. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The reason I call his a "distorted" view is WHY he places Gordon and Johnson where he does. If it was because that's where they belonged on an all-time list based on their accomplishments, that's one thing, but he places them where he does because of what he views as "excessive cheating" on the part of their team." You are 100% wrong. Well, the cheating does play a role in it, so you are only 90% wrong. The "Hendrick Discount" is the fact that, since 1995, HMS has won 10 championships out of the last 19, with one of their satellite teams (Stewart in '11) winning another. And I don't know exactly how many of their 200+ wins have come since '95, but I'm sure it is staggering. Ever since the big move to engineering for NASCAR which many folks have pointed to '95 as the the start of (Darrell Waltrip, in one of his infrequent serious moments of giving actually insightful analysis, stated that year alone the cost of fielding a NASCAR team doubled) there has been HMS and everyone else. Which brings me to my main point about Jeff and Jimmie: Neither is responsible for even half of Hendrick's success. You look at their numbers, then look at the multitude of double standards that favor HMS showing how connected to NASCAR Rick is (the fact he is even allowed to own a team with a felony conviction, something no other sport would allow, says the everything) and you can't help but wonder why Jeff or Jimmie, if truly Top 10 drivers in NASCAR history, haven't done more. I put them both in my Top 10 just because of their numbers, but in different situations, I have serious doubts about both. As for cheating always being in NASCAR, first off there is the double standard of their era they have received, and secondly, when Gary Nelson took over as competition director in 1992, he made it clear the days of fun cat and mouse games between mechanics and inspectors was over. Unless you drive an HMS car. And I cannot put Jeff in the top 5 when another driver, in this case Jimmie, shows up out of the blue in '02 as Jeff is coming off his 4th championship and just his 30th birthday which means he hadn't even hit his peak racing age, and quite simply outperforms Jeff BADLY over that span, passing him for career championships, and doubling Jeff's win total over that span. There is absolutely no explanation for the sudden halt in Jeff's insane '95-'01 production to a much more down to Earth production from '02 to present other than "Jimmie Johnson". I don't see how anyone can have JJ behind Gordon on their list. I hate that arrogant son of a bitch, but Jimmie has handed it to Jeff for the past 12 years with no explanation that is plausible other than "Jimmie is better". From a 7 year stretch that produced 4 championships and 47 wins to a 12 year stretch with 29 wins, no championships, and just a single "2007 New England Patriots Memorial Best Season Consolation Prize" award in, ironically, 2007, what does that say? Now I am willing to give Jeff a pass for '08-'10. He was injured, and in my opinion, worse than he was letting on. And he did come back with a furious comeback in 2011, finally beating Jimmie in a season for win total, before his usual late season fade, before 2012 when things went back to normal with Jimmie fighting for the title and Jeff languishing despite a throwback Refuse To Lose run to make the chase after a snakebit season before igniting an embarrassing incident at Phoenix (he tried to wreck him once, put himself in the wall, then puttered around at 50 mph cause that is the only way he knew he could get the job done) with a driver nobody else has ever seemed to have a problem with. Now of course this always leads to the excuse making, so I will now answer all the complaints from Jeff Excuse Generator 2000: 1) Chad Knaus has been sabatoging Jeff. The more I think about this, the more I wanna laugh. Hendrick is the most rock solid organization out there with some of the brightest minds in every area. Yet one person can somehow short circuit the whole thing, make every other team look like crap, while the others just stand there with their thumbs up their asses? That is the weakest explanation for a situation since the Lone Gunman Theory. 2) Dale Earnhardt's death affected Jeff. People die in racing, get over it. Insensitive? Of course it is, but that is the mindset you have to have as a racer. How many peers and friends did Petty and Earnhardt watch die before and during their runs of success? True race car drivers put that stuff out of their minds. Look at the 2012 Indianapolis 500. Just seven months after defending race winner Dan Wheldon's tragic death, two of his best friends, Franchitti and Kanaan, put on a hell of a show at 210+ mph at the track that has taken more lives than any other until their epic duel was ruined by Takuma Sato worse than Ryan Hunter Reay's day at Pocono this year was ruined by Takuma Sato (I seem to notice a pattern developing here). Besides, Dale died in the first race of '01. That same season, Jeff won the most races, most poles, led the most laps, and ran off with the title. That means he ran faster than anyone else. 3) Becoming a father has softened Jeff. He found out he was finally gonna become a Dad before the 2007 season started, and became one right before Sears Point. To celebrate, the 24 team decided not to practice that Friday. Oh wait, actually them and the 48 brought illegal cars to the track and were forced to sit out. Anyways, 2007 was one of his greatest years, with him winning 6 times, getting a runner up in points, and winning the "2007 New England Patriots Memorial Best Season Consolation Prize". Doesn't sound very soft to me. 4) The injuries from his wicked hits have softened Jeff. Watch the final 10 laps of the epic Atlanta 2011 race. Notice the 24 car slipping and sliding all over the place, keeping the 48, who was also slipping and sliding, at bay at over 150 mph? Look soft or scared to you? You should watch the final 10 laps of that race anyways. By far the most exciting minutes of NASCAR since Brian France took over. I'm not kidding. 5) The chase has affected Jeff. In the win column too? His entire production has lessened since Jimmie, not just championships. Yes it cost him the Cup in 2007 (2004 would have Jimmie's despite Jeff having the most season points, we've been over this), leaving him with only the "2007 New England Patriots Memorial Best Season Consolation Prize". And yes, it exposed his most glaring weakness, racing in the final weeks of a season. But NASCAR has a history of pretty looney points systems from 1947 to present. You adapt and evolve. 6) Since his divorce from Brooke, he has spent of his time living in Manhattan, and the smog and pollution from NYC's rancid air has affected Jeff. Now this one I'll buy. Has anyone been to that city in the last 10 or 15 years? It has this awful yellow haze all in it and it smells like ASS! That has to have affected his brain and equilibrium and reaction ability. 7) I hate Jimmie Johnson, he can't be better than Jeff. I hate Jimmie too, but the sad fact is he's better. Let the rioting begin. 1326. BON GORDON posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I expected Gordon's team to struggle in the first practice. They haven't been great this year on bigger faster tracks but through the years at Indy Gordon has struggled in practice all weekend but ended up running strong in the race. Even when they have a rough year they seem to run well here at Indy. Take 2001 for instance...terrible 27th starting position, awful all weekend in practice and even the first 80 laps or so of the race but they got it turned around and got track position and won the race. They were also terrible in practice in 2004 to the point where Robbie Loomis and Jeff weren't even talking to each other then on Sunday they dominated the race and won. The last two seasons Gordon was going through subpar seasons and still managed a 2nd and 5th. As a Gordon fan I'm not worried yet. I don't expect them to qualify great either. They have a late draw tomorrow and Gordon over the last ten years or so doesn't typically set the world on fire in qualifying here. I honestly believe they will finish 5th-8th on Sunday which is what he needs right now. The wins will come....hopefully. 1327. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Because Zack, they determine who gets in the race first. After they determine who gets in the race, then they set the lineup based on speeds in the first practice session. In the situation where the first practice session is held but qualifying gets canned, they use the rulebook procedure, which is based on the top 36 in owners points, any past champions not already in the field, and then attempts with tie-breakers being owner's points. That determines who gets to race. After that, the lineup is determined by speeds in the first practice session, so owner's points would not have anything to do with the way they line up. And by the way, I found out that Jeff Gordon's team ran race setups in the first practice session and never tried to make a qualifying run, which may be one reason they were so far back. With rain and thunderstorms possibly in the forecast for qualifying, what that tells me is that they're sacrificing a good starting position if it rains, and the rain may wipe out any gains they make. And why would they run race setups at a time they won't be racing anyway. Shouldn't they be trying qualifying stuff in the first practice, then switching over to a race setup at a time of the day when they'll actually be racing? This team's mismanagement of races keeps getting worse. They got bailed out at Loudon thanks to Paul Menard spinning Gordon out, but they can't keep getting lucky like that. It's eventually going to catch up with them. Didn't Michigan teach them anything about starting back in the pack? If they start in mid-field by their own choosing and get caught up in a wreck they shouldn't be in, that may end up being the straw that breaks the camel's back. Jeff Gordon was down after that experience, and I think his expression also sent a message to Alan Gustafson, but if Gustafson's tactics end up getting Gordon in another mess he shouldn't be in, I wonder how long it will be before a change is made. After all, Gordon's been 2-3 MPH off the pace of his teammates on high-speed tracks almost since Gustafson got there, and unlike Steve Letarte, who strategized Gordon out of those holes, Gustafson is incapable of doing that. And things appear only to be getting worse for the #24 team, because they lack the speed to overcome the constant mismanagement of races that is going on with that team. 1328. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Does that make sense?" Yeah it makes perfect sense and that's how I've always understood it, but the rules on Jayski never once mention practice speeds even playing a role which I knew wasn't true. What I don't get is why CJS says Trevor Bayne would DNQ if qualifying were rained after practice HAS taken place and Trevor Bayne is well within the top 36 fastest cars. 1329. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Because Zack, they determine who gets in the race first. After they determine who gets in the race, then they set the lineup based on speeds in the first practice session. In the situation where the first practice session is held but qualifying gets canned, they use the rulebook procedure, which is based on the top 36 in owners points, any past champions not already in the field, and then attempts with tie-breakers being owner's points. That determines who gets to race. After that, the lineup is determined by speeds in the first practice session, so owner's points would not have anything to do with the way they line up." So instead of it being 36th fastest, then the 7 provisionals determined by points but lined up based on speed like it is in regular qualifying, it's that the rulebook determines who the 43 drivers are that are in the race and they are all ranked according to speed? That makes a lot more sense to me, now. Thanks. 1330. The Long Shot posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah, okay. Cjs is right. I think I'm mixing up my rules here. 1331. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, you said it when it came to the 2001 Brickyard 400. Jeff Gordon (and a number of others) got incredibly lucky on a series of pit stops, which were completed just before a caution came out around mid-race. Because they were the last to pit, they stayed out, while those that were leading pitted, and never got back to the front again. Gordon got in position, outgunned Sterling Marlin on a restart (that would almost never happen now), and was essentially unchallenged from there. And DSFF, my point was that you can't judge guys who race for Hendrick Motorsports one way because of their somewhat shady history in regards to the rules, which actually goes back to the mid 80s, and judge others who raced for shady organizations that cheated just as frequently, if not more, differently. That's why I never take that into consideration. Just look at the drivers in the top 15 on my list. At least 7-10 of them drove at least some of their careers for people and/or teams that were shady when it came to the rulebook. Those drivers included, but were probably not limited to Gordon, Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, Darrell Waltrip, Jimmie Johnson, Herb Thomas, and Fireball Roberts, and you can even throw Richard Petty on that list if you wanted to. 1332. BON GORDON posted: 07.26.2013 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF I'll agree with you that Jimmie has been better than Jeff for the last ten years. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but I will never put JJ ahead of Gordon until he wins another title and or reaches his same win total. Denial maybe but too bad. What I think has affected Jeff is Chad Knaus being a terrible team player as you stated. I don't think Dale's death effected Jeff to the point of him changing his driving style and not taking risks, he took plenty of them after Dale's death. Another reason is his family obviously, and his back problems in 2008-2010. I don't care what you say you don't give Jeff enough credit for what he's done. Throw Jimmie Johnson aside, we all know he's the best out there and Gordon doesn't get the same equipment or notes the #48 has. Look at Terry Labonte in the late 90s. Same thing is sorta happening to Jeff. However like I said everyone is entitled to their views and opinions and that's all I'm going to say on this issue. 1333. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) DSFF, a few things: 1) Even if NASCAR did have a rule barring convicted felons from owning teams it likely wouldn't apply to Hendrick since officially he wasn't convicted due to his pardon by President Clinton. Besides, it was mail fraud. It's not like he raped or murdered someone. 2) I agree with you that a lot of the excuses people make for Gordon performing badly as of late are complete bogus. 3) Gordon IS a top 5 driver and has had a better career OVERALL than Johnson (who is also a top 5 driver...did I just type? Pardon me while I puke) at this point, in my opinion. However, I, unfortunately, have no doubt that Johnson will probably surpass Gordon. 4) I don't buy this argument about Hendrick's equipment...sure it's great, no doubt, but it's obvious you have to be a HELL OF A DRIVER to to accomplish what Gordon and Johnson have. If it was equipment why don't Dallenbach, Craven, Schrader, Mears, and even Dale Jr. have mountains of wins? It's obviously because they aren't as good as Gordon and Johnson. Hendrick equipment doesn't equal an automatic championship contender. 1334. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) You people can't take a hint if it shoots your foot, can you? I mentioned somewhere that Chad Knaus has literally been "caught" cheating more times than Petty Enterprises, Junior Johnson, Smokey Yunick, Mario Rossi, and DiGard COMBINED. 1335. BON GORDON posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS I'm just pointing out it's way too early to worry about Gordon yet. I think they will be ok. 1336. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did I not just write out a long ass winded posts stated rules violations are only a small part of "The Hendrick Discount" with my beef not being the violations themselves, but the double standard in which they are enforced against their peers? Where did I judge their violations against the violations of those that came before them? 1337. The Long Shot posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, the main difference between what Gordon has done in his career and what Johnson has done in his career is the different competition levels. Johnson hasn't faced anywhere near the competition that Gordon did back in the 1990s and 2000s. Gordon raced talents like Dale Earnhardt, Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, Dale Jarrett, Ken Schrader, Ricky Rudd, Davey Allison, Sterling Marlin, Terry Labonte, Bobby Labonte, and Mark Martin during the peak of their careers. Johnson, on the other hand, hasn't faced anything near that type of competition. The best drivers he's faced (at the peaks of their careers) have been Dale Earnhardt Jr., Tony Stewart, and Kyle Busch. 1338. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And DSFF, I don't think Hendrick Motorsports is the only team about which that can be said, because there are many that think that, in generations past, NASCAR turned a blind eye to other teams that were cheating, just like you say they're doing that with Hendrick Motorsports. I think that's one big reason Petty Enterprises did what they did in the fall race at Charlotte in 1983. They may have run the oversized engine and illegal tires as much to protest NASCAR's non-enforcement, or selected enforcement of the rules, as much to gain an advantage themselves. And there have always been questions surrounding the legality of quite a number of Petty's wins for just the reasons you described. David Pearson even said, possibly in jest, that Petty was running a big engine in the 1976 Daytona 500, and there have been rumors of Petty running big engines for years. Then there was the fiasco surrounding the aftermath of the 1973 fall race at Charlotte, when both Cale Yarborough, who won, and Petty, who finished second, were caught using big engines, but nothing was done. So the kind of selective rule enforcement you refer to has been going on for a very long time. And NicoRosbergFan, your point about Chad Knaus being caught as often as he has says something about the fact that the inspectors are now looking for, and catching more than they used to. There was just as much cheating going on by the other teams you mentioned, if not more, but it was in areas NASCAR never even bothered to look at, so they got away with it. But NASCAR now looks in many of those same areas, so it's much harder to get away with the sort of cheating that Chad Knaus may have, more often than not, gotten away with, but has also been caught more than most. 1339. BON GORDON posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jimmie Johnson is better than Dale Earnhardt. He will pass him in every statistical category as well. Does that make him better?? Hmmmmm.... No, beause he never raced against him in his prime. If Earnhardt was part of Hendrick like Gordon was I guarantee you Johnson would beat him every week too. Does that make him better?? Was Gordon considered a better driver that Sr. when he was kicking his butt every week? No, because apparently Earnhardt's excuses outweigh Gordon's for some reason. Oh his equipment wasn't better than Gordon's or he went through health problems and old age too....PLEASE people! Gordon is just as good as Earnhardt in my opinion. Maybe not better but just as good. Let the rioting began starting.......NOW! 1340. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I preface this by saying DSFF is obviously entitled to his own opinions, but it's very hard for me to take him seriously when he ranks Jeff Gordon 10th. Think about that...Jeff Gordon only the 10th best all time???? The same Jeff Gordon that averaged 10 wins per season at one point in his career. The same Jeff Gordon that put forward what is probably the best season in modern day NASCAR in 1998 when he won THIRTEEN RACES despite the fact that Chevys were inferior to Fords that? I can understand being uncomfortable with ranking Gordon ahead of Earnhardt, Pearson, or Petty, but 10th?!?!?!?!?! COME ON MAN. In other news, it seems like the worst kept secret in NASCAR at the moment is that the Brickyard will install lights and lead off the Chase starting in 2015. I'm sure a lot of you don't like it, but I think it's a good move. NASCAR will never leave the Brickyard now that they are there, but something HAS to be done to rejuvenate interest in what was once the biggest (as in most attended) race in NASCAR. 1341. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zack, while some of NASCAR's Indy attendance problem can be traced back to the 2008 tire fiasco (why ESPN Classic airs that event, I don't know), some of it has to do with the management of the speedway not promoting it's events. Remember that they can't even fill it for the Indianapolis 500 any more, and nobody's going to argue that the Indy 500 isn't the biggest event in all racing, and IMS can't even sell that out. They estimated the attendance at 200,000 for this year's race, and even that might have been generous. The attendance for the Indianapolis 500 is at it's lowest since they installed the double-decker grandstand back in 1949. It's so bad that, like at Daytona, the management at IMS is actually REMOVING seats. They've even admitted that they've been having problems promoting the events at IMS. Sure NASCAR's got to shoulder their share of the blame, but so does IMS, because it's far more than a NASCAR problem. When they can't even come close to selling out the Indianapolis 500, something's terribly wrong. 1342. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, I will! 24 Hours of Le Mans is bigger. 1343. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.26.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting, apparently in some races this year, Hendrick has just been slapping National Guard stickers on June Bug's car for races for free just so that he can claim the car has a "Sponsor." 1344. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Interesting, apparently in some races this year, Hendrick has just been slapping National Guard stickers on June Bug's car for races for free just so that he can claim the car has a "Sponsor."" One of the big stories that's been floating around for the past month or even longer is that Hendrick has a sponsor that's completely new to the sport already lined up Jr. and the are in the process of finalizing the deal. I believe either Daytona or Kentucky was supposed to be his first race without a sponsor, but I'm fairly certain Hendrick moved the races around so that Junior wouldn't have to go sponsor-less while they were finalizing the deal with whoever this new sponsor is. 1345. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I'm not even sure the 24 Hours of LeMans is the biggest sports car endurance race any more, much less the biggest race period. I can argue that the 24 Hours of Daytona has become bigger than the 24 Hours of LeMans. First of all, there's the American participation at Daytona that's virtually absent at LeMans because the American racing series are racing elsewhere. That's a big reason why drivers such as Mario Andretti could never win at LeMans. They couldn't win there because they couldn't run there because their own series was running. Second, there's the competition, which is always much stiffer at Daytona than LeMans, and third, the 24 Hours of Daytona is the first significant race of the year anywhere, and as such, it has virtually an All-Star lineup of motorsports' biggest stars around the world in all disciplines of the sport because nobody else is racing. Also, Daytona is much, much safer than LeMans, as evidenced again this year. No, the Indianapolis 500 has always been the biggest of them all, even in the two times that the IndyCar series was split. The irony was that, even then, the race easily sold out and had a waiting list, but now it can't even come close to selling out. It's one thing for the Brickyard 400 to have attendance problems, because we all knew the full houses at Indy for the NASCAR race couldn't go on forever, but when IMS can't even sell out the Indianapolis 500 (and it hasn't been even close to selling out the last couple of years), and as to reduce the seating to make it look better, then we know IMS has a major problem, and maybe lighting the track will make it better. It's never going to be like it was, but it can be better than it is now. 1346. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.26.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another reason for low attendance at the Indianapolis 500, cjs3872, is that IMS has raised their ticket prices the last few years and will raise them even higher before next year's 500. According to Robin Miller, the Boston Consulting Group suggested that IMS raise their prices and, despite recent attendance woes, IMS made the dumb decision to go with it. Therefore don't be suprised if next year's attendance is lower than 200,000, which would look horrible both in person and on tv. 1347. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here is a list of drivers who have driven full seasons for Hendrick Motorsports since 1995 and the wins they have since that point: Ken Schrader, #25, 1988-1996, 0 wins (4 wins overall for Hendrick) Jeff Gordon, #24, 1993-present, 85 wins (87 wins total for Hendrick) Terry Labonte, #5, 1994-2004, 9 wins (12 wins total for Hendrick) Ricky Craven, #25/50, 1997-1998, 0 wins Wally Dallenbach Jr., #50/25, 1998-1999, 0 wins Jerry Nadeau, #25, 2000-2002, 1 win Jimmie Johnson, #48, 2002-present, 64 wins Joe Nemecheck, #25, 2002-2003, 1 win Brian Vickers, #25, 2004-2006, 1 win Kyle Busch, #5, 2005-2007, 4 wins Casey Mears, #25/5, 2007-2008, 1 win Dale Earnhardt Jr., #88, 2008-present, 2 wins Mark Martin, #5, 2009-2011, 5 wins Kasey Kahne, #5, 2012-present, 3 wins I just don't know how DSFF can say Hendrick equipment makes such a difference for Gordon and Johnson. Their stats are WAY ahead of any other Hendrick driver. If it's the post-1995 Hendrick equipment that makes all the difference why does the next closest driver to them only have 9 wins in that time period? 1348. AveryNH posted: 07.26.2013 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I can't believe that speed is actually showing the Grand-Am race on tape delay. 1349. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Zack, it just might be a case of Hendrick, like other car owners, preferring first Gordon, then Johnson over the rest of his drivers, so he gives them the best people, such as the crew chief, car chief, etc. But most other top multi-car teams do this, preferring the star drivers over the others, while trying to get the others to win a race or two to keep their sponsors happy, but at the same time, not win enough to topple the team's #1 driver. Of course, this has backfired on Hendrick more than once. In 1996, Terry Labonte, the guy that was supposed to win just once or twice (in fact, he only won twice that year), toppled the team's #1 driver to win the title, and in 2004, the team's top two drivers (believe it or not there was once a time when Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson were equals at HMS) fought so hard to win the title that neither won it, as Kurt Busch sneaked in the back door to win the title. After that episode, Hendrick and Chad Knaus, who's really run the competition side of HMS after the 2004 plane crash, made the choice to relegate Gordon to the #2 driver at HMS and make Johnson the clear #1. (Gordon must have made Knaus furious by winning the Daytona 500 to open the following season.) Of course, since then, while Johnson has stayed the undisputed #1 at HMS, Gordon's status there has continued to diminish, and swapped with Mark Martin for that position when Mark first got there in 2009, and has even dropped behind Dale, Jr. and Kasey Kahne, Mark's replacement, on the HMS totem pole, so he's now at the bottom of the pecking order at HMS. Where Gordon once got Hendrick's best cars and people, he's now got their worst, and having Alan Gustafson as his crew chief is a prime example of that. Gordon may have gotten the better of the team swap at the beginning, as he figured to, but the primary objective was to boost Dale, Jr.'s team, as well as Hendrick's flagship #5 car, which it has, to the detriment of the #24 team. The irony of all this regarding Gordon is that, as much as we talk about how poor his seasons in 2008, '09, and '10 were, they were all better than his last two, and even the first half of 2011. I mentioned the ill-fated 2008 Brickyard 400. But what people tend to forget about Gordon's season that year was, as bad as it seemed, he was sixth in points entering that race in 2008, and the following two years, was battling for the points LEAD entering the Brickyard 400. In 2009, he was battling Johnson and Tony Stewart for the top spot in points, and in 2010, he was battling Johnson and Kevin Harvick for the top position in points. And of course, he dominated much of the 2007 season before the points reset. That was with Steve Letarte as his crew chief. But since Alan Gustafson became his crew chief, Gordon's points positions entering the Brickyard 400 have been seventh in 2011 (and he had to rally to get there), 17th in 2012, and T-11 this year, and I don't put it all on luck, because he hasn't run very well early in the year for the third year in a row. He didn't run that well early in 2011, didn't run well for the majority of the 2012 season until the suspension rules change, which played right into their hands, and aren't running well again this year. Maybe it's time for HMS to consider some kind of change, because this isn't working at all for the #24 team, and seems to be getting worse. I don't know who said it, but someone recently said that Gordon and his crew chief are still trying to get their chemistry down. Still? They're more than halfway through their third year together. If they don't have the chemistry by now, they'll never have it. If Gordon doesn't make the Chase, and he need to run better to get into the top ten in points, it may be time for a change, just like 2005. And things are also getting worse for the #5 team as the year goes on, instead of better. This is more confusing, but maybe what's happened to the #5 team is a result of losing the Coca-Cola 600, because they've not been the same since then. They've been fast, but extremely erratic, and have seemed to inherit the #24 team's bad luck (broken gearbox on the start at Pocono and the crash while battling for the lead at Daytona). But unlike the #24 team, they've got the speed in the #5 car, but what they need is more consistency, and for Lady Luck to turn their way for once. But if their skittishness continues, it's possible that Kahne may be on the sidelines when the Chase begins, possibly with Gordon, though I still give Kahne a slight edge right now, but after Michigan, that edge switches to the #24 team, despite Kahne's earlier victory at Bristol, because speed won't really be that important at the four races after Michigan that preceed the Chase. So if the #5 team doesn't get their act together in the next four races, they may not be in the Chase, and there's then the chance that only two HMS teams make it this year. 1350. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Zack, it just might be a case of Hendrick, like other car owners, preferring first Gordon, then Johnson over the rest of his drivers, so he gives them the best people, such as the crew chief, car chief, etc. But most other top multi-car teams do this, preferring the star drivers over the others, while trying to get the others to win a race or two to keep their sponsors happy, but at the same time, not win enough to topple the team's #1 driver. Of course, this has backfired on Hendrick more than once. In 1996, Terry Labonte, the guy that was supposed to win just once or twice (in fact, he only won twice that year), toppled the team's #1 driver to win the title, and in 2004, the team's top two drivers (believe it or not there was once a time when Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson were equals at HMS) fought so hard to win the title that neither won it, as Kurt Busch sneaked in the back door to win the title." If this is true, and I don't necessarily think it is, but it could be, the question then is why? Why Johnson and Gordon over the other two. I have no doubt every team has the senior driver who is sort of the face, if you will of the team, but from a business perspective, if I run a business (in this case a race team) I want all of my products (in this case the drivers) to get equal exposure (running up front) so that I can maximize profits and sell more items (in this case space on a racecar and the drivers themselves to sponsors). This is ESPECIALLY true if one of those products happens to infinitely more popular than other 3 (Dale Jr.). It would almost certainly be better for both Hendrick Motorsports and NASCAR in general if he were the one who had won 4 races this year and led the points since he is a sponsor magnet already and running up front would only increase that. Imagine all the extra money Danica Patrick would bring to Stewart-Haas if she actually ran up front in addition to being a celebrity. It would be huge. It's worth pointing out that these reasons, among others, are why I never buy into the NASCAR being rigged. Everybody who says NASCAR is greedy is absolutely right which is exactly why I am so confident NASCAR isn't rigged. If NASCAR were rigged do the people who promote these conspiracy theories really think Dale Jr. would have gone 4 years without a win and NASCAR would have sacrificed the exposure and $$$$$$$$$ that would have gotten them. 1351. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, if Hendrick does/did give Johnson and Gordon better cars what's the motivation? They aren't the most marketable drivers on the team, Dale Jr. always wins that contest hands down. So the only conclusion I can draw is that if Hendrick does give Gordon and Johnson better equipment, then the reason he does so is because he knows they are the two who will go out there and make the most of it (a.k.a. they are better drivers than the other two) while the other two won't. 1352. Mr X posted: 07.26.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would like to point out that none of the Hendricks teams are truly running poor enough to merit a change within the team, and even at that these people aren't as interchangeable as the cards in your hand during a game of go fish. 1353. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All I'm saying is that if I was Mr. Hendrick and it's only about the equipment I would give my best equipment (and I count crew chiefs/pit guys in that category) to Dale Earnhardt Jr. because him running up front is what would make me the most money, which is what it's really about for the owners anyway. If it's really only about the Hendrick equipment give it all to Junior let him go out there, mash the gas, and let the checks roll in. I don't doubt Chad Knaus is the best crew chief in the garage, not just in the Hendrick stable. So the question is why does Knaus get paired with Johnson year in and year out? Why was Knaus left with Johnson when the other three teams had a crew swap? To me the answer is obviously because Hendrick knows that Johnson is a better driver and the one who can best get the most out of the good equipment and Gordon, Kahne, and Earnhardt Jr. can't. With that said I don't necessarily believe that Hendrick only gives/gave good stuff to Johnson and Gordon because it's in the best interest of his pocketbook to have all 4 teams running competing for wins and top 5s on a regular basis. 1354. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.26.2013 - 9:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why was Knaus left with Johnson when the other three teams had a crew swap? To me the answer is obviously because Hendrick knows that Johnson is a better driver and the one who can best get the most out of the good equipment and Gordon, Kahne, and Earnhardt Jr. can't." Or maybe he knows Johnson couldn't do jackshit without Chad. Even when Chad's been suspended (the 900 times), they needed to have constantly on the cell phone telling the team what to do. 1355. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.26.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, ZacharyShawn, if you look at the whole world of motorsports, every single mutli-car team out there, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, clearly favors one driver significantly more than the others. 1356. Mr X posted: 07.26.2013 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Or maybe the Johnson/Knaus duo was the only duo within HMS running worth a shit in the second half of 2010. Gordon and Letarte only managed 2 top 5's in that span, Martin and Gustafson were generally struggling, and the Earnhardt/McGrew relationship never worked. Johnson was also the HMS car to make it into victory lane in 2010. 1357. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.26.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey CJS (AKA Baltimore Back Flipper) If Gordon somehow someway makes it into the chase than you owe everybody here a backflip NO EXCUSES. Also you have to reveal to everyone here your true identity. 1358. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And even Johnson struggled near the end of the 2010 season, Mr X. When they went back to the spoiler from the wing, HMS as a group struggled. The only reason Johnson's team won the Chase that year was because they were the only ones that had ben through a championship battle, and that experience paid off, but even Johnson was slightly off the pace from where he normally runs. And why would Rick Hendrick have messed with what is probably the greatest driver-crew chief combination, in terms of success and longevity since the days of Shelmerdine and Earnhardt, or going back even further, Dale Inman and Richard Petty. The other three teams weren't doing that well, and the thinking was that moving Alan Gustafson over to be Jeff Gordon's crew chief would revitalize his career, and it did for one year, but two things happened there. First, Kasey Kahne brought Kenny Francis with him to HMS in 2012, and he's just as bad as Knaus when it comes to sharing information. Secondly, Gustafson has only been good with drivers for one year. That was the case with Martin, and even to some extent with Kyle Busch because the only year Busch won twice with Gustafson as his crew chief was their first year together. But Hendrick also knew that 2011 would be a "throw-away" year for the #5 team, with Mark Martin being a lame duck driver, and it took a little while for Dale, Jr. and Steve Letarte to get some chemistry going, but Letarte was just what Dale, Jr. needed for the long term, and we've seen the results. Last year, he battled atop the points standings for much of the season, and this year, he's been solidly in the top ten in points all season, while Kahne has floundered since the Coca-Cola 600 and Gordon and Gustafson are just not getting it done, as Gustafson has again proven that he can only be successful with a driver for one season, before that success wanes. 1359. cjs3872 posted: 07.26.2013 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That, I can not do, Benjamin. I will not reveal my true identity to anyone. Actually, I was quite upset when YouTube used my real name for the short time it did, but that eventually ceased. 1360. Jim Davis posted: 07.26.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think the "favored driver status" also has a lot to do with sponsorship. I think Lowe's might be very generous in its support of Johnson and that's reflected in the what the 48 team budget is. Which means they can buy more equipment, build new cars more often, offer better salaries, etc. I don't think it is entirely coincidence that Gordon started to decline when long time sponsor duPont sold its automotive finishes division or that Earnhardt went into the tank when he couldn't take Budweiser with him when he left DEI. Note that this was the primary reason that Kenseth left Roush-Fenway. Sponsorship for the 17 was piecemeal and erratic which Kenseth knew would mean resources would not be overly plentiful. If Gordon is getting the short end of the resources stick at Hendrick I think that a) he knows he is, b) he knows why, and c) he's okay with it. I think it all boils down to the fact that AARP is not the most generous of sponsors but, sadly, it's the best Gordon can do. 1361. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Or maybe he knows Johnson couldn't do jackshit without Chad. Even when Chad's been suspended (the 900 times), they needed to have constantly on the cell phone telling the team what to do." As much as I hate Johnson, no driver wins 64 races and 5 championships just because of a crew chief. That's malarkey. In 2006 when Knaus was suspended didn't Johnson win 2 races including the biggest of them all, the Daytona 500? "Also, ZacharyShawn, if you look at the whole world of motorsports, every single mutli-car team out there, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, clearly favors one driver significantly more than the others." How do you know that? Do you work for the teams and know their secrets? How do you that what appears to you as an owner favoring one driver isn't just the case of a driver being better than his teammates? Tell me, who is the clearly favored driver at MWR? Bowyer? He's highest in points. Truex or Vickers? They've both won races. Martin? He's the senior driver. Hell, who's the favorite a JGR Kenseth and Busch have both done well this year and I think Hamlin got injured, but has run well for the most part he just doesn't have the finishes. Hell, you couldn't even convince me Penske favors Keselowski over Logano because I think Logano has actually run better this year. He's just had better luck. And as I said before, if an owner does favor a driver you have to ask yourself why. If it's not the most popular driver on the team, then the obvious answer is probably because the owner knows that driver is the one who can get the most out of the equipment. 1362. The Long Shot posted: 07.26.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That, I can not do, Benjamin. I will not reveal my true identity to anyone." I've probably revealed as much about myself as I'm going to reveal. You all know my first name is Alex, and you all know I live in Minnesota. That's all you're going to know. I'm not revealing anything else on here. 1363. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With that said I've always said that it pisses me off that Knaus wasn't part of that pre-2011 trade because I'd like to see what he and Junior could do. I'm not convinced it would be that great, though. I understand why Hendrick left Knaus and Johnson together because of the chemistry they have which brings me to another point...having good chemistry and communication skills with your crew chief is just as important an attribute to a good driver as anything that happens on the track in my opinion. Also, how is that I hate Johnson, but I feel like I've defended him more than any person on this page? Irony at its finest. 1364. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.26.2013 - 11:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ross Kenseth won the ARCA / CRA series event at Lucas Oil Raceway. It was a better race than Tomorrow's cup light race at the Brickyard will be. There's one racetrack in Indiana that can put on a good Nascar race, and it's not the brickyard #cupatLOR. 1365. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.26.2013 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It was a better race than Tomorrow's cup light race at the Brickyard will be. There's one racetrack in Indiana that can put on a good Nascar race, and it's not the brickyard #cupatLOR." First off congratulations to Ross Kenseth. Wasn't there talk that Kyle Busch might put him in one of his trucks at some point? Now, let us not make assumptions. We could all end up being pleasantly surprised with tomorrow and Sunday's race. Remember Fontana earlier this year? If Trucks and Nationwide don't race LOR there is less than a 0% chance the Cup guys will ever race there, especially since two companies own all but 3 tracks and they have their dates pretty much locked in. Also, NASCAR isn't ever going to leave the Brickyard as long as it turns a profit for them. Too much time and energy were spent trying to get a race there for them to ditch it like that. I, for one, don't mind that because I like the pageantry that goes with the Speedway. I don't always like the race, especially if a certain driver wins it (but now I've broken some rule apparently and I need to stop there), but I like the idea of NASCAR being there. As I mentioned earlier, it seems like the worst kept secret in NASCAR at the moment is that the Brickyard will gets lights installed and be the kickoff to the Chase. I think that's a pretty good move because most drivers consider this the second biggest race of the year, but it sorely needs some rejuvenation. 1366. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.26.2013 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wasn't there talk that Kyle Busch might put him in one of his trucks at some point?" I believe he is concentrating on running late models and such until he's finished with college. I know that the cup series will never race at Lucas Oil Raceway (although they should!), but it's nice to think about. Even if they do put in lights to make the brickyard a night race, it's still a boring track for stock cars. I'd rather see door-to-door bumper to bumper action on a short track under the lights than cars spread out over a 2 1/2 mile track under the lights with no passing. "We could all end up being pleasantly surprised with tomorrow and Sunday's race." The only way tomorrows race will be good is if every cup driver in the field blows an engine on the pace laps. Actually, the same is true for every other Nationwide (or as it should be know, cup-light) series race. As for Sunday's race, I'm fully expecting another Jimmie Johnson victory. If they want an exciting race on the brickyard (ha!) they should race the cup cars on the road course the grand-am series raced on today. 1367. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.27.2013 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The reason they moved the Nationwide race from LOR to the brickyard was to try and increase brickyard attendance because they were afraid that people were more likely to go to LOR if given the choice. No $@%%! LOR had cheaper tickets and put on a better race! Instead of convincing season ticket holders at LOR like myself to spend our hard earned money at the brickyard, I wonder who many are like me and have decided that Nascar isn't getting any of our money now? General admission tickets for the Brickyard NNS race are $25. The ARCA / CRA race at LOR tickets were $20. $25 to see a crappy race, or $20 to see a good race, pretty simple decision. 1368. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 07.27.2013 - 12:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some disappointing IndyCar news-it looks like Alex Tagliani is out of a ride, but this may pave the way for J.R. Hildebrand to make a comeback, he is a candidate to run for the #98 team at Sonoma. 1369. Paul posted: 07.27.2013 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Earnhardt went into the tank when he couldn't take Budweiser with him when he left DEI." I've heard that Budweiser actually dumped Dale Earnhardt, Jr. for Kasey Kahne following the 2007 season in hopes of increasing their sales among younger clients, similar to what Coors Light did following the 2005 season when they wanted David Stremme instead of Sterling Marlin. I don't know if those marketing campaigns actually worked or not, but that's the main reason why Budweiser didn't go to Hendrick when Junior went there. Also, I don't drink, but if I did, why would I want to buy that product just because the driver is younger? Give me someone with a cool personality that I would like to emulate, which is what both Sterling and Junior had/have. 1370. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 1:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, I don't drink, but if I did, why would I want to buy that product just because the driver is younger? Give me someone with a cool personality that I would like to emulate, which is what both Sterling and Junior had/have." If I drank, which I probably will but I actually believe in not breaking the law and I don't turn 21 for another 3 months, I would drink Miller just simply because they are one of the few sponsors left that actually sponsors the entire season. 1371. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 07.27.2013 - 1:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll have to watch that ARCA race if it comes on later on a rerun, because it's at IRP! I agree with what everyone said here about the ARCA Series being watered down (that's putting it mildly), but I'll watch any race at that cool track. 1372. 83andJoe posted: 07.27.2013 - 1:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >The reason they moved the Nationwide race from LOR to the brickyard was to try and increase brickyard attendance because they were afraid that people were more likely to go to LOR if given the choice. There's also the fact that the NHRA, which owns the track, has refused to spend the money to upgrade the safety standards at LOR, and NASCAR got tired of running there on an exemption. >#cupatLOR Will never happen, see above. The track won't be upgraded unless NHRA sells it, and since they run the biggest drag race of the year there they'll sell the track when pigs fly. 1373. 83andJoe posted: 07.27.2013 - 1:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) >I'll have to watch that ARCA race if it comes on later on a rerun, because it's at IRP! Unfortunatly this wasn't the ARCA Racing Series, this was the ARCA CRA Super Series. The CRA Super Series is not televised anywhere. 1374. 83andJoe posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thoughts on that CRA Super Series race: -Ross Kensesth has RIDICULOUS luck with inversions. -Ken Schrader ran in the event, while Kenny Wallace ran the preliminary CRA JEGS All-Star Tour race. -Wallace finished 10th in the prelim. -Schader finished 25th in the main event after spending several laps on pit road late in the race. 1375. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.27.2013 - 6:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those points are all well and good, but it doesn't explain Johnson's superiority over Grodn while going head to head with each in their racing prime. In the same equipment. All I'm getting is the flimsy "Chad just toppled The Empire from within". I hate Chad, and I'd blame him for everything if I could, including the current sexting scandal of NYC mayoral candidate Carlos Danger Anthony Weiner, but I see no evidence that he can be blamed in any way for Jeff's inability to beat JJ for more than a race or two at a time. 1376. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.27.2013 - 6:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) All right I won't force you to reveal your true Identity But You still owe us a back-flip (or at least a back-flip attempt) if Gordon somehow Gets into the Chase. 1377. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 7:19 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Those points are all well and good, but it doesn't explain Johnson's superiority over Grodn while going head to head with each in their racing prime. In the same equipment. All I'm getting is the flimsy "Chad just toppled The Empire from within". I hate Chad, and I'd blame him for everything if I could, including the current sexting scandal of NYC mayoral candidate Carlos Danger Anthony Weiner, but I see no evidence that he can be blamed in any way for Jeff's inability to beat JJ for more than a race or two at a time." Gordon's prime came at a much younger age than Johnson's did. Not everyone peaks in performance at the same age. Look at Harry Gant. Not to mention Gordon has been at this for nearly twice as long as Johnson so it only makes sense that Gordon's prime was coming to an end when Johnson's was just beginning. In my opinion, Gordon's prime was 1995-2007. Johnson's prime started in 2006 and is still happening. I personally don't believe Gordon and Johnson ever truly raced against each other in their primes. I think it's a false dichotomy you've created by suggesting than Gordon and Johnson both raced in their prime against each other. By the time Johnson hit his prime Gordon only had about 1 remarkable season left in him, but after that he began to slowly fall off his game. He's still good, mind you, but I would hardly say this or any other time in the past 6 years or so is his prime. 1378. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 8:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Those points are all well and good, but it doesn't explain Johnson's superiority over Grodn while going head to head with each in their racing prime. In the same equipment. All I'm getting is the flimsy "Chad just toppled The Empire from within". I hate Chad, and I'd blame him for everything if I could, including the current sexting scandal of NYC mayoral candidate Carlos Danger Anthony Weiner, but I see no evidence that he can be blamed in any way for Jeff's inability to beat JJ for more than a race or two at a time." What the f*ck? Jeff's prime was in the 90s. 1379. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 9:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Those points are all well and good, but it doesn't explain Johnson's superiority over Grodn while going head to head with each in their racing prime. In the same equipment. All I'm getting is the flimsy "Chad just toppled The Empire from within". I hate Chad, and I'd blame him for everything if I could, including the current sexting scandal of NYC mayoral candidate Carlos Danger Anthony Weiner, but I see no evidence that he can be blamed in any way for Jeff's inability to beat JJ for more than a race or two at a time." Also, to add to things, so says the man who uses the flimsiest evidence available to claim Earnhardt was better than Petty (Stick Elliott beat the shit out of Dale more often than not). It's called an opinion, and some opinions are opinions because of that nagging feeling the conscience and not because of fact. 1380. Eric posted: 07.27.2013 - 11:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn, You are not quite accurate on Harry Gant's prime because of Harry Gant's racing resume before cup. Harry's resume was strong enough to be considered for the NASCAR Hall of Fame before he started racing Full time in cup matter of fact. Harry Gant didn't suddenly he had his prime started in his 40's. I am saying that because Harry Gant had a legendary racing career in the lower leagues of NASCAR before being a full time cup driver at the age of 39. Harry Gant won over 300 races in the 1960's and 1970's in the lower leagues of NASCAR. Harry was a 3 time champion in the NASCAR Sportsman division and was a 4 time runner up in the NASCAR Late Model Sportsman (now Nationwide Series). Harry Gant was like a lot of drivers of his generation. His generation had great drivers that actually were capable of having great success in cup, but decided not to do cup racing in their 30's because of the amount of success they had in the lower leagues of racing. That means while Harry Gant was great in the cup series in the 1980's and early 1990's, Harry is a driver that you wonder what he could have done in cup as a full time driver before the age of 39. 1381. cjs3872 posted: 07.27.2013 - 11:59 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) NicoRosbergFan, your point about Jeff Gordon's prime being in the late 90s-early 2000s exemplifies what I've said numerous times about experience in racing, and why I say Gordon may be the oldest 42-year old (he turns 42 on the day of the race at Pocono) in racing history. Unlike any of the other champions, Gordon actually started racing at the age of five or six, so by the time the late 90s came around, he had been racing for 20 years, even though he wouldn't turn 30 until 2001. He may have been in his mid-to-late 20s in actual age when he dominated the circuit in the late 90s, but in racing years, he was more like someone in their mid-to-late 30s, so he was an acute exception. In truth, Jimmie Johnson is much closer to normal in terms of age and when a driver reaches their prime. He was 31 when he won his first championship, and will be 38 in about six weeks. If you look back on the other greats, that's when they started to dominate, between the ages of 31 and 35. The only other exception to that was Richard Petty, who was 27 when he began to dominate in the mid 60s. As I've said, Jeff Gordon may be about to turn 42 years of age, but in racing years, he's more like someone 50-52 years of age. But saying that, I'll still take Gordon when their cars are close to equal, because he's not going to make the mistakes that Johnson is liable to make. One of the reasons why I think Johnson would have had a hard time winning championships the way Gordon, Earnhardt, and the other legends did was because he's too mistake-prone, and you can't win a championship over a full season if you make costly mistakes, and Johnson would make them too frequently. For instance, he's thrown away at least two wins just this year with costly mistakes and lost a certain second at Michigan with yet another. There's no driver of his caliber in NASCAR history that I'm aware of that's made so many mistakes, and those mistakes are more costly when you have to run a full season for a championship. That's why the Chase was made for him, because he can win a championship over 10 races, as he's done 5 times, but I doubt he could win those championships the way he has if he had to run the full season because he makes too many mistakes that would cost him. The irony is that he's the only one that didn't make a mistake late in last year's Chase run, because his team imploded around him during those final two races. 1382. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.27.2013 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok, so I'll buy y'alls logic and agree Jeff's racing prime only lasted 7 years (that mysteriously ended at the exact year Jimmie hit the scene). That is ridiculously short. Nobody with a 7 year prime window in their 20s belongs in the Top 5. As for my "opinion" for Dale being the best ever, it is not arbitrary. He has numbers among the best, and got them for teams that weren't the best. He won his first title in his second season (still hasn't been done since) for a barely sponsored team of mostly young Californians who had little knowledge of NASCAR, and an owner who cared so much about NASCAR he just up and left out ofwhere the next season just cause he didn't wanna do it anymore. Then he won six more for Richard Childress. Do I need to break down how much of RCR's success Dale is responsible for? And his racing prime coincided with NASCAR's most stacked era. From '79-'97, only 4 times was the championship either clinched before the final race, or did the points leader only have to start the final race. Dale Earnhardt in 1986. Dale Earnhardt in 1987 (two races left). Dale Earnhardt in 1991 (the green flag flew at Atlanta and mercifully that year's pile of crap title fight was over). Dale Earnhardt in 1994. Notice a pattern? And oh yeah, his ability to close out championships. Eight times he was in true contention for the title. He took home the Winston Cup seven of those. 7-1. Racing with the championship hanging in the balance is the ultimate pressure. Let me ask you guys this: There are 4 races left in the season and you either have a 10 point lead or are behind by 10 points. Who, in NASCAR history do you want driving your car? And be honest. Numbers don't always tell the whole story. You have to dig deeper. Look at the NFL. Did you know Joe Montana is only 13th in NFL history in passing yards. He is behind Kerry Collins. KERRY COLLINS! The only NFL game I've ever been to was a Panthers game in '98 or '99 (Dad got free tickets somehow) when Kerry was our QB. He threw 5 interceptions. Me and Dad left with 10 minutes still to go in the 4th. Let me put this in perspective for you. Me and Dad NEVER leave anything early. EVER. Remember the '97 Coke 600? Me and Dad were still there at 1am when they pulled the plug. 1383. cjs3872 posted: 07.27.2013 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF, you say that Jeff Gordon's racing prime lasted only through the 2001 season, as Jimmie Johnson's first year was 2002. Let's also remember that there were other factors involved. First, Johnson wasn't the only driver coming into NASCAR's top series then. Johnson was joined by Kurt Busch, Ryan Newman, Matt Kenseth, and others. Remember that Kenseth also had only one win entering the 2002 season. Another factor in Gordon's diminishing performance beginning in 2002 can be traced to the fact that NASCAR switched the final Cup practice and the Nationwide Series race. As a result, guys like Gordon who did not run the Nationwide Series race were at a substantial disadvantage to those that did, because those that ran the Nationwide race knew what the track and tires were going to do, and having that information gave them a big advantage. Since Roush always ran his Cup drivers in the Nationwide race, that gave them an advantage over those that didn't, and it showed, because Kenseth led the series in wins with five and Mark Martin was second in points, and both had dreadful years in 2001. Also, there was Gordon's marital problems, which took it's toll and he didn't really recover until 2004, and what happens then? He gets back in championship contention. Also, there was the addition of a fourth team at HMS for Johnson, which drained some of the resources there, as well as cost Gordon most of his best cars. And of course the death of Dale Earnhardt didn't help any driver racing at that time, which is another thing the young drivers coming up didn't have to deal with the memory of. So there was more than just one thing that stunted Gordon's career when it seemingly had reached it's peak, but rather a series of things that seemed to conspire against him, some self-inflicted, some not. But we're going to find out that Earnhardt's death at the end of the 2001 Daytona 500 was a big factor in the decline of ALL the veterans that were racing at the time, and Gordon certainly being no exception. 1384. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, the main difference between what Gordon has done in his career and what Johnson has done in his career is the different competition levels. Johnson hasn't faced anywhere near the competition that Gordon did back in the 1990s and 2000s. Gordon raced talents like Dale Earnhardt, Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, Dale Jarrett, Ken Schrader, Ricky Rudd, Davey Allison, Sterling Marlin, Terry Labonte, Bobby Labonte, and Mark Martin during the peak of their careers. Johnson, on the other hand, hasn't faced anything near that type of competition. The best drivers he's faced (at the peaks of their careers) have been Dale Earnhardt Jr., Tony Stewart, and Kyle Busch." Oh, come on. I like you, but you're being intellectually dishonest in some of the people you consider yesterday's legends/drivers in their prime and who you're leaving off from the current era. Jeff Gordon's rise came with Dale Earnhardt's fall. I wouldn't say they really competed in their mutual primes (as Earnhardt and Rusty and Elliott did), but Gordon's prime started when Earnhardt's ended. Ditto for Gordon vs. Wallace (Wallace wasn't even a championship contender post-1994, while Earnhardt at least was). Elliott was already second-tier when Gordon started, having his only full winless season while driving for another car owner during Gordon's rookie season. Rudd's peak as a driver was probably 1991-1992 when he finished 2nd in points in '91 then led all the Chevies in '92 with what was probably Hendrick's worst equipment in the team's history, and he was also second-tier by the time Gordon was in his prime. Davey and Gordon barely competed and Gordon's prime certainly started after Davey's death (not to mention that Davey's 1993 was lackluster compared to his two previous seasons anyway). You forgot to mention Ernie Irvan, which would be a better argument, but his injury happened before Gordon's prime. Marlin and Schrader are lightweights compared to the others mentioned, and listing Schrader is totally goofy since he was career-winless before Gordon even started. Terry Labonte did win an outrageous title head-to-head vs. Gordon in his prime, so I can't argue TOO strongly with you listing him, but he was obviously a much better driver in the '80s regardless and at the very tail end of his prime (but I wouldn't say 1996 was remotely his absolute peak as a driver). Dale Jarrett, Mark Martin, Jeff Burton, and Bobby Labonte are the only major drivers I would say Gordon competed against when he and they were both in their prime, and I consider all four of those to be overrated drivers historically for just that reason, because that was in fact one of the SHALLOWEST eras in NASCAR history. Jeff Gordon was one of the only good rookies in a 10 year period competing against a bunch of legends who were gradually becoming washed up. This is a BAD argument for Gordon, actually. I understand why people prefer the '80s/'90s drivers over the '00s/'10s drivers. I do myself. But I totally think people overrate some of the old-school drivers due to their "likability" while selling far too many of today's drivers short due to their immaturity. While I would rate Gordon more highly than Johnson myself, if you're going to argue about competing against talents in their prime, you have to argue for Johnson. Okay, so maybe he's competing a bunch of drivers who choke, but Tony Stewart, Matt Kenseth, Kyle Busch, Kurt Busch, Denny Hamlin, Carl Edwards, Kasey Kahne, Kevin Harvick, Greg Biffle, and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. all shared the same general prime as Johnson, and while few of these drivers match most of the drivers listed AT THEIR PEAK (although I would rate ALL of them, except maybe Junior, over Marlin and Schrader), I would take almost any one of those drivers NOW over guys like Elliott/Rudd/Rusty/etc.../etc... in the late '90s. I like the older drivers much more also, but most of those drivers were at their best in the late '80s/early '90s, NOT when Gordon is around. Imagine some new hot rookie showing up 5 years from now after a bunch of dire rookie classes who has very little competition, except from the aging Jimmie Johnson, Matt Kenseth, Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon (if they're still around)... How impressive is that? DSFF had a point about the weak competition in the early '80s and it happened for the same reason. Dale Earnhardt, just like Jeff Gordon, arrived during a decade of dire rookie classes and in a time when the previous generation's established stars (Petty, Yarborough, Pearson, etc...) were entering irrelevance, and with Earnhardt in questionable equipment from '81-'83 Darrell Waltrip and Bobby Allison were virtually unopposed (how do you think DW managed to get 12 win seasons during that time...same deal with Jeff Gordon's 10-win seasons in a similar situation in the late '90s, and I rate DW and JG about equally, although I put JG a bit higher than DW). The main difference here between Earnhardt and Gordon is that when Earnhardt had competition in their prime (late-prime DW, Rusty, Elliott, Martin, Richmond, T. Labonte, Davey, Kulwicki, Irvan, etc...) he elevated his game. Gordon managed to own Jarrett, Martin, B. Labonte, and J. Burton in their prime, but when he had to face MANY other drivers in their prime (those who he and Johnson have both competed against) he was relatively lost. Bottom line...don't list Sterling Marlin and Ken Schrader as major talents against Jeff Gordon and say Jimmie Johnson hasn't competed against anyone. Marlin and Schrader are like Bowyer and McMurray now... While I would rate Gordon higher than Johnson (greater stats, fewer mistakes, more well-rounded), if you're going to rate Johnson higher than Gordon, one of the best arguments is that Johnson has competed against a LOT more drivers in their prime. Yes, you can say some of the drivers Gordon competed against were better, but I'll take a present Kyle Busch or Carl Edwards over a 1998 Rusty Wallace or Ricky Rudd. The late '90s were so shallow that Jeremy Mayfield and Mike Skinner could lead the points. Could an equivalent driver do that today? NO. 1385. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry, of course I know Schrader had four wins. What I meant to say was that Schrader's LAST win was before Gordon started. Duh. 1386. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And sure, Petty won the title during Earnhardt's rookie season, but that's basically analogous to Earnhardt winning the '94 title when Gordon won his first race. The point being that Earnhardt and Gordon's main advantage was that they were younger and faster than the legends of the previous generation who were becoming complacent. Hell, I'd say even Earnhardt HIMSELF was complacent starting in 1991. I wouldn't really say he was the fastest driver at any point in the last ten years of his career, but he knew how to play the NASCAR points game and that it was smarter in that regard to play it safe than to kick ass and dominate but be wildly inconsistent (as Rusty, Davey, Ernie, Harry, and Geoff did...) In other words, had Gordon faced the take-no-prisoners Earnhardt of 1986-1990, it would have been much more significant than facing the more complacent Earnhardt of the '90s. In my opinion anyway... "Gordon's prime came at a much younger age than Johnson's did. Not everyone peaks in performance at the same age. Look at Harry Gant. Not to mention Gordon has been at this for nearly twice as long as Johnson so it only makes sense that Gordon's prime was coming to an end when Johnson's was just beginning. In my opinion, Gordon's prime was 1995-2007. Johnson's prime started in 2006 and is still happening. I personally don't believe Gordon and Johnson ever truly raced against each other in their primes. I think it's a false dichotomy you've created by suggesting than Gordon and Johnson both raced in their prime against each other. By the time Johnson hit his prime Gordon only had about 1 remarkable season left in him, but after that he began to slowly fall off his game. He's still good, mind you, but I would hardly say this or any other time in the past 6 years or so is his prime." I TOTALLY agree with this. I would tend to argue that younger drivers are always faster (but less consistent) than older drivers, in any series. The reason so many people here tend to argue that NASCAR drivers don't enter their prime until their 30s (which I think is a load of bull) is because of most legends (especially those who started in the '80s) did not manage to get good cars until they were in their 30s. When a legendary driver got a good car from day one, they usually won (Earnhardt, Davey, Stewart, Johnson, etc...Gordon is an odd exception). Maybe it takes until a driver's 2nd or 3rd year to learn how to be consistent in most cases, but I'd say most drivers' primes would be anything under the age of 40. The thing is, prior to Jeff Gordon, not many drivers had the opportunity to show what they could do in their early 20s. I can't believe people really believe that the 30s marks some kind of prime. I say drivers slow down in general with age. Gordon wasn't as fast in his 30s as he was in his 20s, and I imagine the same would have held true for most drivers. The reason it was first noticed with Gordon is because almost no one before him had the opportunity to drive championship-caliber equipment in his 20s. That's it. I mean, these days, Formula One and IndyCar drivers are considered old farts in their late 30s (because most of the legends start in top equipment at a much younger age than NASCAR drivers), and now we're seeing the same kinds of trends in NASCAR. Harry Gant and Dale Jarrett hit their prime in their late 30s/early 40s? Nope. They first had the cars to show what they could do in their late 30s/early 40s. They would have probably been faster had they had the same cars 10 years earlier... 1387. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish people here had brains sometimes. Remember, that there were only 8 of the current full-time drivers around when Dale and Kenny Irwin both died in front of all these drivers, but Jeff was also around when Ernie Irvan nearly died AND when Neil Bonnett and Rodney Orr died, all in a 7 month span. It's quite possible that Jeff has been shafted by Hendrick, but at the same time Jeff has been complacent. He got hurt, and his performance dropped off. Hell, even Denny Hamlin's driving is pretty worthless. Once you're damaged goods, no one will give you a fair chance again. Look a Fred Lorenzen (stomach ulcers), Herb Thomas (brain surgery), and Ernie Irvan (punctured lungs, etc). Some guys, once they get hurt, are a shadow of their former self. Others, like Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt, come back and say "I got hurt doing 150 in that turn, so maybe if I go 160 next time I'll hit the wall flat." Chad Knaus is just one factor in a domino line of issues there. We can rest assured that Chad Knaus will see to it that no other Hendrick car besides the 48 is a points contender ever again, but that doesn't mean there isn't something else on the other driver's minds. Yeah, something isn't right there, but there's a good 10 or 12 item list of things wrong. "but when he had to face MANY other drivers in their prime (those who he and Johnson have both competed against) he was relatively lost." In the world of power steering, it's all irrelevant. Best car always wins. Yes, I truly believe you could put just about anybody shy of someone ancient in these cars and the results would be identical. Yes, I believe psyche is involved, but confidence only comes with the assurance of the car underneath you. If you put Jamie McMurray in that 48 car, yes he wins just as many races and titles, and more, because McMurray isn't a quitter AND is a clutch driver who isn't about to do something stupid. The problem of today is that there are only a few drivers, like Harvick and Gordon, who (A) don't upon occasion resemble John Wes Townley, and (B) don't quit when they don't have the best car. 1388. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, I do disagree with Zack Shawn about one thing. If you're going to count 2002-2007 as part of Gordon's prime (which I wouldn't necessarily disagree with) you have to count Johnson's ENTIRE CAREER as his prime. 1389. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Here's something that will make everyone happy...Kyle Busch is on the pole for the Nationwide race. 1390. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh, I do disagree with Zack Shawn about one thing. If you're going to count 2002-2007 as part of Gordon's prime (which I wouldn't necessarily disagree with) you have to count Johnson's ENTIRE CAREER as his prime." I could agree with this, I just think think that from about 2002-2007 Johnson and Gordon were still pretty equal drivers in most years. 1391. cjs3872 posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, I didn't make that argument that you counter, but I will say that there are more good drivers today than there were back in the time that Earnhardt and later Gordon dominated the sport. But there were more great drivers then that there are now. In fact, I can truly say that there are only four drivers that Jimmie Johnson has faced that I can call great drivers. Aside from Gordon, there is Tony Stewart, Matt Kenseth, and Mark Martin. The one thing that keeps the other very good drivers that are running today from becoming great ones isn't talent, but rather mental toughness. The only one among the younger drivers I can se becoming the next truly great driver is Bead Keselowski, because he has the mental toughness that others lack. The others, such as the Busch brothers, Carl Edwards, Denny Hamlin, Greg Biffle, Clint Bowyer, and Dale, Jr. are mentally weak, which is why Jimmie Johnson and Tony Stewart have run all over them in championship battles. In fact, Stewart knew exactly how mentally weak Edwards was in 2011, which is why he played mind games with him, and it worked. You could not rattle any of the top-echelon drivers in Earnhardt's and Gordon's primes, because they were mentally tough. That's part of what made them great, and part of what's lacking in today's drivers. They also had to race harder back then because there was no wave-around or free pass on caution flags. Heck, I'll even take Geoff Bodine in his prime over guys like Edwards, the Busch brothers, Denny Hamlin, Clint Bowyer, Greg Biffle, and even Dale, Jr. Bodine was prone to crashing, but you weren't going to intimidate him, and the guys today are easy to get inside their heads and intimidate. And you also mention Kasey Kahne as one of those very good drivers. He may be the softest one of the whole bunch, and the others know it. Kahne is a driver that would make even the Labonte brothers look intimidating. Having mentally weak drivers like the ones out there today is one reason why Jimmie Johnson can win so many championships, even with all the mistakes he makes. The guys from the 80s and 90s would have his lunch because they knew how to force mistakes out of their competition, something today's drivers are, for the most part, mostly incapable of doing. 1392. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, Dale and Davey are the exception rather than the rule. And by the time Tony Stewart came around, power steering was perfected to the extent that drivers now DNF if their power steering goes. Plus, when Gordon came in, Hendrick had pockets deeper than Charo's breasts, and Johnson came into a team that almost literally has the budget of every other team combined. 1393. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " Heck, I'll even take Geoff Bodine in his prime" Ooh, you said a bad word! 1394. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nobody with a 7 year prime window in their 20s belongs in the Top 5." I don't think Gordon only had a 7 year prime, but even if he did....We're talking about Jeff Gordon man. Average of 10 wins (roughly 1/3 of the season) between 1995-1998. 13 win season in 1998. 4 time champion. 3rd on the all-time win list. We aren't talking about some hotshot who hit his stride, picked up a several wins, maybe even a championship, and then faded. We're talking about JEFF FRICKIN' GORDON. For some reason I feel like that's been lost on you. 1395. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch has to be the most overrated Driver in NASCAR History. 1396. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think Gordon only had a 7 year prime, but even if he did....We're talking about Jeff Gordon man. Average of 10 wins (roughly 1/3 of the season) between 1995-1998. 13 win season in 1998. 4 time champion. 3rd on the all-time win list. We aren't talking about some hotshot who hit his stride, picked up a several wins, maybe even a championship, and then faded. " Bobby Isaac's prime lasted only from 1968-1971. That's only 4 years. 1397. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You could not rattle any of the top-echelon drivers in Earnhardt's and Gordon's primes, because they were mentally tough. That's part of what made them great, and part of what's lacking in today's drivers." Earnhardt's prime, yes. By the time most of those drivers (Rusty, Rudd, Elliott, etc...) were racing Gordon in his prime they were great historically but no longer great CURRENTLY. Much like Gordon is great historically, but not as great CURRENTLY as he is relative to some of the drivers who have emerged since. "Sean, Dale and Davey are the exception rather than the rule. And by the time Tony Stewart came around, power steering was perfected to the extent that drivers now DNF if their power steering goes. Plus, when Gordon came in, Hendrick had pockets deeper than Charo's breasts, and Johnson came into a team that almost literally has the budget of every other team combined." Dale and Davey are exceptions because they were given good cars when Gant, Richmond, Rudd, R. Wallace, T. Labonte, Jarrett, Irvan, Kulwicki, etc... weren't when they started their careers. I think several of those drivers might have been able to win as rookies if they had had equivalent cars. I agree with you that equipment plays a bigger role in determining success in NASCAR but I disagree that it plays a 100% role. Why do Kyle Busch and Denny Hamlin succeed while J.J. Yeley and Joey Logano fail? Why do Biffle, Edwards, and Kenseth succeed while David Ragan fails? Why do Gordon and Johnson continue to succeed while Vickers, Nemechek, Mears, etc... fail? Talent still means something in NASCAR, at least when comparing the drivers who were in elite cars. Can you make a valid comparison between today's stars and say, Regan Smith or David Reutimann? Maybe not. But you can still make comparisons and I think those comparisons still have more validity than you seem to think they do... 1398. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also have tremendous respect for Geoff Bodine for his style where he seemed to be afraid of no one and wanted to flat out dominate without caring about points. Same reason I like Ernie Irvan. Same reason I like watching Kyle Busch on track when everyone else is a consistency robot (although even I'll admit Kyle rubs me the wrong way quite often off-track...) 1399. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Because life isn't constant week to week. There's always going to be someone that suffers. There's always the owner's pet, and the owner's scapegoat, especially when you're a Gibbs-type team that can't handle 3 cars. Motorsport teams are the ultimate misnomer in sports because they are hardly a team. There's always someone getting the short end of the stick. Notice, there's very rarely a case where every car in a team is good on a week-to-week basis. Parts only go so far. 1400. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Bobby Isaac's prime lasted only from 1968-1971. That's only 4 years." What Gordon did in 4 years, 1995-1998, is enough to get him automatic entry into a Top-12 list, I think. And that doesn't include 47 other wins and another championship. 1401. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow... 1400 comments here. What did I miss? 1402. The Long Shot posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, one thing you have to remember is that I never really saw either Marlin or Schrader race in their prime, whereas obviously you have. Because I haven't really seen them, although I have heard plenty of good things about them, my brain makes them appear to be greater than they actually were (turning them into legends). Had I known that they were to the '90s what drivers like Clint Bowyer are nowadays, I wouldn't have used them as examples. I will say this: while Earnhardt certainly was not at his prime when Gordon first came to the sport, you can't say that he was truly declining. Look at 2000. Earnhardt finished 2nd in points that year, with 2 wins, 24 top 10s, and an average finish of 9.4. Compare that to Gordon, who finished 9th in points, with 3 wins, 22 top 10s, and an average finish of 12.9. Can you still say that Earnhardt was a declining driver? 1403. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's another thing that'll make everyone happen...Johnson is on provisional pole right now. 1404. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mmmmmmmm, Charo! So the guuy who wields so much power within NASCAR that they made the last minute no bump drafting in the corners rule change on the morning of the '09 Fall Dega race cause he was scared of it can't even keep one guy within his own organization from shafting him with info and equipment? So one of the pillars of mental toughness inside a racecar is so mentally weak outside of it, it submarined his career? Flimsy. 1405. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " So the guuy who wields so much power within NASCAR that they made the last minute no bump drafting in the corners rule change on the morning of the '09 Fall Dega race cause he was scared of it can't even keep one guy within his own organization from shafting him with info and equipment? So one of the pillars of mental toughness inside a racecar is so mentally weak outside of it, it submarined his career? Flimsy. " It's a stronger theory than your funny little "Childress is underpowered" excuse to claim Earnhardt's the greatest. There's little to no evidence they were underpowered, and in fact the few statements that Jeff and crew members have made about the 48 team are stronger evidence than you have that Earnhardt was underpowered. It's an opinion, and damn every one of us to hell that opinions have no proof. Stick Freaking Elliott was better than Earnhardt on the local level, and he didn't win a SINGLE race. (OK, that's nothing special). DSFF, I love your comments. Now get cjs, he swore! 1406. NicoRosbergFan posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Marty Reid is having a boner. 1407. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I will say this: while Earnhardt certainly was not at his prime when Gordon first came to the sport, you can't say that he was truly declining. Look at 2000. Earnhardt finished 2nd in points that year, with 2 wins, 24 top 10s, and an average finish of 9.4. Compare that to Gordon, who finished 9th in points, with 3 wins, 22 top 10s, and an average finish of 12.9. Can you still say that Earnhardt was a declining driver?" Compared to 1986-1990, yes. He declined less significantly than all his fellow baby boomer drivers except Mark Martin, which is absolutely to his credit. But he was much more dominant (and faster) from '86-'90 than at any point afterward. From 1991-2000 Earnhardt was largely complacent but drove much smarter than his peers, almost all of whom were either relative lightweights to him or drivers who were actually driving more aggressively than Earnhardt was in that period, leading to more dominance but less consistency (Rusty, Irvan, Bodine, Gordon, etc...) I care more about dominance than consistency, and to me, I'd take a season like Earnhardt's 1988 or 1989 over a season like 1991 or 1994 when he just top 10'd people to death in a rather dull way. I fully expect that some of today's drivers will EVENTUALLY mature, become more complacent, more consistent, etc... That's why I do think Kyle Busch will win a title, but by the time he does, he will be MUCH more boring to watch. 1408. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson's team has put up partitions in the garage area so that the other teams can't see what they're doing in there. 1409. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Absolutely not, because almost no one here rates him very highly, especially the contingent who cares about mental toughness and argues certain drivers who had mental toughness are destined to win titles while those who don't are destined to choke every single time, an argument I rather vehemently disagree with. 1410. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My post 1409 was in response to Benjamin Lowe's 1395. 1411. Sean posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Because I haven't really seen them, although I have heard plenty of good things about them, my brain makes them appear to be greater than they actually were (turning them into legends)." Fair enough. Lots of likable drivers get rated much more highly than they should (Marlin, Schrader, and Ward Burton are three good examples...from that general era, I'd take Bobby Hamilton or Morgan Shepherd over any of them, and they don't get nearly as much hype, even though they were also likable.) 1412. David posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dash it all. I had a good argument for Gordon over Johnson yesterday, but I couldn't post it. Now, half of it has already been made. Posting it now would look really out of place. 1413. David posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was hoping that we could avoid the Gordon vs. Johnson argument. How foolish of me. Also, it's nice to see Sean and his large posts again. 1414. Schroeder51 posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cup qualifying is totally impossible to watch. I tried watching a segment of it and all that's going is BSPN having massive hard-ons because Jimmie Johnson is currently on the pole. UGH, this is going to be a painful last half of the season to watch. 1415. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean your posts are so long you could write a novel with them. 1416. New14 & 88Fan posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rocket Man Newman is back!! 1417. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NEWMAN!!!! 1418. Schroeder51 posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Newman beat Johnson for the pole? Man, BSPN must be FURIOUS. 1419. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though the crowd is sparse at qualifying, when Newman knocked Johnson off the pole you could clearly hear them cheering loudly on TV. 1420. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Even though the crowd is sparse at qualifying, when Newman knocked Johnson off the pole you could clearly hear them cheering loudly on TV." Don't forget that Newman is a South Bend, Indiana native, which is north of Indianapolis. So Indianapolis can be considered Newman's home race. 1421. cjs3872 posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And it's a milestone pole for Newman, as it's the 50th of his career, putting him in a small group, that includes Richard Petty, David Pearson, Jeff Gordon, Cale Yarborough, Darrell Waltrip, Bobby Allison, Bill Elliott, Mark Martin, and depending on what criteria you use, Bobby Isaac. Newman now joins them in the 50-pole club. However, Carl Edwards might have gotten the biggest break here, because it now puts him on the inside for the start, and at Indy, the inside is generally where you want to be. 1422. cjs3872 posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) So SpeedWorld97, the luck of the (Fighting) Irish must have been with him, even though he was a Boilermaker (he went to Purdue), as his hometown is also where Notre Dame is. 1423. SpeedWorld97 posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And the very ironic thing about Newman winning the pole for this race is that both he and Ed Carpenter, who won the pole for this year's Indianapolis, are Indiana natives. 1424. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Don't forget that Newman is a South Bend, Indiana native, which is north of Indianapolis. So Indianapolis can be considered Newman's home race." Tis true, but let's be honest here...if it had been anyone else he knocked off the pole do you think the cheer would have been THAT loud, especially for such a small number. 1425. Zackary Shawn posted: 07.27.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "the luck of the (Fighting) Irish must have been with him." If only the luck of the Irish had been with the Irish when they played the Crimson Tide for the national championship. This is me speaking as an Auburn student. 1426. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.27.2013 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's a stronger theory than your funny little "Childress is underpowered" excuse to claim Earnhardt's the greatest. There's little to no evidence they were underpowered, and in fact the few statements that Jeff and crew members have made about the 48 team are stronger evidence than you have that Earnhardt was underpowered." Here is an article from his Osterlund years whose main focus is his lack of hoersepower. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1176736/index.htm pretty much the same thing, but David Ifft's quotes do deeper http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1123985/index.htm As for his Childress years, why did he have a single unrestricted superspeedway win from '84-'87 (Dega '84) but once they restricted the engines to put the teams on a more level playing field he suddenly won 11 times at Daytona and Dega, which could have been 15 or 16 if he didn't have such crappy luck at Daytona? How come he has such high win totals on the short tracks, Darlington (horsepower won't help much in those corners), and Atlanta which is 2/3 corners, while having low win totals at Pocono and Michigan, unrestricted tracks with long straightaways? And btw, I'd love to see the "evidence" that Knaus is hamstringing Gordon. And as always, if he is, then Jeff has nobody to blame but himself. 1427. Benjamin Lowe posted: 07.27.2013 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) At post 1424: It's Because Jimmie Johnson is one of many cancers that has infected NASCAR over the past few years 1428. David posted: 07.27.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And as always, if he is, then Jeff has nobody to blame but himself." Fine. So be it. That doesn't make him a worse driver, it just makes him a wimp off-track at the shop. 1429. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.27.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Then why is he so assertive with NASCAR and not in his own shop? 1430. David posted: 07.27.2013 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Then why is he so assertive with NASCAR and not in his own shop?" No idea. This is why I dislike debating this topic. It makes me want to hate you, and I don't want to do that. :) 1431. DaleSrFanForever posted: 07.29.2013 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Look up 'racing' in the dictionary and tell me what it says in the dictionary, then look up 'passing'," Stewart said. "We're racing here. That's all I'm going to say. This is racing." "If you want to see passing, we can go out on (Interstate) 465 and pass all you want," he added. "If you can tell me that's more exciting than what you see at IMS, the great racecar drivers that have competed here. This is about racing. This is about cars being fast. It doesn't have to be two- and three-wide racing all day long to be good racing." "Racing is about figuring out how to take the package you're allowed and make it better than what everybody else has and do a better job with it," Stewart went on to say. "I've seen races that were won over a lap, I've seen 20-second leads here. For some reason in the last 10 years, everybody is on this kick that you have to be passing all the time. It's racing, not passing. We're racing." -Tony Stewart This is the biggest problem facing NASCAR. Until they learn to completely ignore every word every modern driver says, then attendance and overall interest in this sport will continue its cliff dive. The drivers nowadays are your typical pro athletes. They are surrounded by ass kissers and only care about themselves. Passing isn't racing? Do these guys even listen to themselves? 1432. NascarTheGameInsideLiner2012 posted: 05.27.2014 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Way to go Brian Vickers Welcome Back To Victory Lane Buddy Yay! 1433. NascarTheGameInsideLiner2012 posted: 06.07.2014 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) He hasn't won for a long time welcome back to Victory Lane Brian Vickers winner of the Camping World RV Sales 301. 1434. TTF24 posted: 06.07.2014 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Brian Vickers who has 75 wins runs part time for Michael Waltrip Racing Welcome back to Victory Lane Bran Vickers who wins The Camping World RV Sales 301 1435. RaceFanX posted: 09.18.2015 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This ultimately proved to be Jeff Burton's 134th and final top-5 finish. 1436. Big Mac Fan posted: 11.23.2015 - 12:31 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't think anyone expected this to be MWR's final win. 1437. STATMAN posted: 11.23.2015 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't expect it either. I'm surprised that this race has so many comments. 1438. Jason24 posted: 12.08.2017 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MWR's and likely Brian Vickers final win. 1439. Jimmie4life posted: 05.19.2020 - 10:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only official time Jimmie Johnson's started last in a race. Also, poor David Stremme to qualify in 1:43.083. It'd take him 8.5 hours to finish the race at his pace. 1440. Rich posted: 12.19.2020 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adam Alexander, Wally Dallenbach and Kyle Petty were the commentators. Marty Snider, Ralph Sheheen, Chris Neville and Matt Yocum were the pit road reporters. Larry McReynolds was the in-race analyst. Lindsay Czarniak was the studio host. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: