|| *Comments on the 2013 AdvoCare 500:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. The Long Shot posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (4) (5) The championship's in the bag, my dear Knaus. 2. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, gotta find something positive out of the qualfying for Matt and the 20. Well, how's this: the last 5, and 6 of the last 7 Phoenix races have been won from a starting spot of 10th or worse. 3. Schroeder51 posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson on the pole while Kenseth starts near mid-pack... This is going to be FUN. 4. joey2448 posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I hope Matt doesn't bow down and worship Jimmie after the race like Jeff did in 2007.... Also, Marty Smith must feel like Arnold Schwarzenegger when he's got the "pump", right about now, the way Smith treats Jimmie as a god....if you don't know what I'm referencing, just google 'Arnold and the pump'. I know I've mentioned this before, but I swear, I think Jimmie gets his firesuits tailor made! They fit his physique perfectly! 5. murb posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Glorious. 6. numbah10hatah posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Looks like we minus well give Jimmie the trophy for this race and the championship. f**k f**k f**k f**k f**k!!!!! 7. Anonymous posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (2) (7) Here's to number six for the most disgusting human being to climb behind a NASCAR. 8. TS1420 posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (4) Congrats to Nap Time on becoming Six Pack (of NyQuil). To Kenseth & the rest of the chasers (and field): PISS OFF! YOU ALL ****ING SUCK! 9. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This just keeps getting better. Ugh. 10. BluesTravelerFan posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a somewhat interesting note I read something interesting on USA Today about Jimmie, apparently he got defensive when asked about comments Brad made in which he said (paraphrase) "that racing Jimmie hard was his weakness, and Matt should race the crap out of him". As far as both the qualifying and race go, I don't have anything to add other than the usual feeling of malaise about the 48, so I will just spare you guys any more statements. 11. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Making different plans for Sunday already. 12. joey2448 posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) GO BEARS!!! 13. TS1420 posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "On a somewhat interesting note I read something interesting on USA Today about Jimmie, apparently he got defensive when asked about comments Brad made in which he said (paraphrase) "that racing Jimmie hard was his weakness, and Matt should race the crap out of him"." Man. Keselowski needs to get back on track next season. He knows how to take on He Who Shall Not Be Named and win. Not wet his firesuit and bow down before The Arrogant Lord of Boredom like 99% of the rest of the drivers in Cup do. 14. MarkMartinFan posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) It sounds like Mark is hanging it up after this season. It's a bummer. But it's been quite a ride. 19 years of being a Mark Martin fan has been great. I hope he stays in the sport in some way. 15. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.08.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Not that it means anything, but for the last three years the point leader going into Phoenix has not won the championship because something always happens to help the guy in second either close in or take the points lead. Matt isn't that far back so if anything happens to JJ he can capitalize. It's not much to hope for but the fat lady hasn't sung on this chase yet. 16. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.08.2013 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ #4, Marty's been BFF's(that's being kind) with Dos Jotas forever. @ #14, iirc Martin's supposed to have a role as a driver coach with Stewart-Haas, aka getting Danica's act together. 17. Mowman posted: 11.08.2013 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yup won't have to waste my Sunday watching the 48 car lead all the laps. Can make plans to do something like watching the submarine races in Lake Michigan. Was never a big football fan but it might be more entertaining than Nascar. 18. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.08.2013 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (7) (1) "Here's to number six for the most disgusting human being to climb behind a NASCAR." I don't know what's worse: someone being stupid enough to make this comment, the fact that two idiots apparently agree with it, or the fact that he refers to a race car as a "NASCAR". I've never seen a true race fan call a race car a "NASCAR", so I'd like to believe this is a troll. Now if he's actually serious, he has a pretty limited knowledge of NASCAR to believe a family man whose never been in any notable legal trouble, drives clean most of the time, and has a foundation that gives millions to charities is more "disgusting" than bigots, drivers who intentionally wreck other drivers, drug abusers who endanger every other driver, wife beaters, etc. 19. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.08.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) Marty Smith is a joke. He contributes nothing media wise, and is a complete jock sniffer. And his JJ bias is sickening. Not surprised JJ got defensive about Brad's comments. Brad gives JJ the yips. Chad was dead wrong about Matt being a more formidable opponent. Jimmie is in his comfort zone around Matt. Brad is his mental Kryptonite. 20. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.08.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) What a difference one calendar year makes with all the trash talking between Brad and Jimmie leading into Phoenix to this year's malaise, milieu-inducing Chasw with competitor hero-worshiping and puff pieces from media types meant to plant the seed in fans' minds that Jimmie is as good as Earnhardt and the King. Of course, when number 6 comes to pass, the mainstream Nascar sports media will continue this marketing campaign meant to elevate Johnson to GOAT status... pass the Donny Lia bucket as we are seeing it play out during the 2013 Chase with the ESPN comerical featuring Jimmie walking up the grid past the legends. The 2013 Sprint Cup Season, like the 2013 BCS, can't get out of its way or end soon enough. 21. Quasar posted: 11.08.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This might very well be Jeff burton's last Top 10 run in cup. I'm sad. 22. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.08.2013 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This might very well be Jeff burton's last Top 10 run in cup. I'm sad." Sad indeed... I was hoping something happened on the last lap at Texas for Mark Martin to get one more top 10 finish. 23. murb posted: 11.08.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Marty Smith is a joke." Marty Smith could quite possibly be the biggest tool in Nascar media. His only real competition is Mike Mulhern. But at least Mulhern doesn't buddy up with all the popular drivers like Smith does. 24. murb posted: 11.08.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "This might very well be Jeff burton's last Top 10 run in cup." While I'm absolutely sad to see my favorite driver's career pretty much coming to an end, at the same time, I would much rather see him go out like this instead of just hanging around and taking up space. People always try to put Jeff together with Mark Martin and Bobby Labonte as guys who are just holding on to nothing. While that definitely is the case with Mark, especially this year (I blame Bobby's mediocrity over the last few years mostly on his garbage equipment), Jeff has actually run relatively good this year. He's had a lot of runs that were capable of being in the top five or top ten, but stupid stuff always happens. Either getting caught up in other people's wrecks, stupid stuff on pit road, or whatever. So I would much rather see Burton hang it up after a relatively competitive year like this year instead of seeing him go to a third rate team like Burger King and having to watch him run completely pathetic every week. He's had a great career, yeah he's struggled a little bit the past couple of years, but I think he's run good enough this year to say "Hey, I can still get it done occasionally". So while it is sad, this is a good time for him to quit and do other things (broadcasting?) instead of just hanging around and holding everyone up. 25. 18fan posted: 11.08.2013 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin has clinched the pole award for this season. 26. cjs3872 posted: 11.08.2013 - 11:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here's an interesting note. Unless something totally unforeseen happens in the last two races, Jimmie Johnson and Matt Kenseth will probably finish 1-2 in points for the third time. When Kenseth ran away with the 2003 title, forcing NASCAR to adopt the Chase, what's largely forgotten is that Johnson finished second, and Johnson reversed it in 2006, beating Kenseth to claim his first of five titles. Now I know this wouldn't be the case if David Pearson ran the full schedule more, but if Johnson and Kenseth did finish 1-2 this year, would this be the first time in the history of NASCAR's top series that the same two drivers finished 1-2 in the points three times? And DSFF, Kenseth is not the kind to get under anyone's skin. It's not his style, but your point about Brad getting under Jimmie's skin by racing him hard is really true about anyone that races Jimmie hard, because Jimmie hates being raced hard by anyone. Remember when he and Kyle Larson had their great battle at Phoenix at the end of one of Jimmie's rare NNS appearances earlier this year? Jimmie tried everything in bag of tricks to get rid of Larson, including blocking him and getting into him, and Larson still almost beat him. And of course, there's that series of incidents in 2010, especially at Texas, when Jeff Gordon was racing him hard, and Johnson tried to wreck him at Texas, then viciously blocked him at Talladega, resulting in Jeff crashing. Jeff let him know he wasn't happy about it. Johnson has never liked being raced hard, no matter who it was that was racing him. That's why Brad was able to get under his and Chad Knaus' skin last year. I can almost guarantee that if it were Jeff Gordon he was racing for that title last year, instead of Jimmie, he couldn't have gotten under Gordon's skin. 27. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.08.2013 - 11:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with all comments posted here so far about Jimmie not being in his comfort zone when he is raced hard. That's what Matt needs to do to win this championship, but I don't think he will because he is not the type of driver to take another out of their comfort zone even if a championship is on the line. That's precisely what Brad did last year (raced Jimmie hard for the win at Texas and rattled him), and that is why he won the championship. Hell, Jimmie isn't even in his comfort zone when his car's setup is off. 28. murb posted: 11.09.2013 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "would this be the first time in the history of NASCAR's top series that the same two drivers finished 1-2 in the points three times?" I looked it up. Bobby and Darrell did it three years in a row from 1981-1983. 29. TS1420 posted: 11.09.2013 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (4) (1) "Hell, Jimmie isn't even in his comfort zone when his car's setup is off." This is why I will never consider Jimmie a top tier legend with the likes of Petty, Earnhardt, Pearson, Allison, Waltrip & Cale Yarborough. Jimmie in addition to not being contested or raced hard, needs for his car and pit crew to be absolutely perfect or he falters. When have we ever seen a legendary type performance of taking a junk car & inept pit crew and dragging them to a really good finish or even win from Johnson? Never. Current day counterparts Gordon & Stewart do that on a regular basis but yet Nap Time is supposed to be a better driver than them? Whatever. 30. DB1995 posted: 11.09.2013 - 1:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My opinion on Brads comments, sounds kinda like Brad doesntwant Jimmie to be champ and he is trying to distract him and get in his head, which Matt wont do, and i agree 100% on what Brad said about this race last year when Jimmie blew a tire, Brad was really fast and he was driving up to take the lead from Kyle Buschs dominant car and Jimmie kept pushing harder and harder until he blew the right front, i never thought it was coincidence that as Brad was taking the lead Jimmie blew the tire 31. Watto posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:44 am Rate this comment: (6) (0) I truly don't buy into the whole "Jimmie is garbage without the car being perfect" nonsense. You don't rack up 270 top 10s in 433 career starts by being garbage any time the car isn't perfect. Also, how many times have we seen Jimmie salvage a pretty damn good finish with a severely banged up race car? The answer is many times. I'm a Brad Keselowski fan and I was worried to say the least after Kansas when Johnson straight-up backed his car into the fence and still came back to finish in the top 10. Jimmie Johnson is great about getting what he can when the car isn't right, maybe it's easy to forget that when he's staying within the limits of the car and not looking like a tool by overdriving a weak race car so that fans can say "he's getting everything that it's worth!" when the car isn't right. Meanwhile, by driving a car NOT capable of winning smoothly and with finesse, that's how you get the most out of it. You don't create a career average finish of 11th by not being good at taking what you can get. The 48 isn't the best car every single week, and if you think so, I don't know what to tell you. And as a Brad Keselowski fan, I can tell you that I didn't think Jimmie would falter last year, nor do I think that Texas is the reason Jimmie lost that title. Jimmie and Brad raced extremely hard and Jimmie won the race. As a 5-time champion, he probably recognized that he could do the same again. When challenged with hard racing, he won the race. He's won so many races coming from behind late in the going with long side by side battles. He's won championships coming from behind. He's won championships while locked with other cars that were the favorite. He'll probably do some more of that. Brad Keselowski didn't win last year's championship by being the ONE DRIVER who could get into his head. He won the championship because of a better stretch of 10 races. Make no mistake about it, Jimmie would've won Homestead without the pit crew fail + mechanical failure. He was on the Jeff Gordon strategy but outrunning Jeff. He was doing his job. Phoenix is up for debate, they missed the setup and he blew a tire running like 7th. Maybe overdriving, maybe setup related. Jimmie Johnson won his first title by coming back from a 156 point deficit with 6 races to go, as he was 8th in points. If you don't think he can race hard and win, I guess winning 66 races and 5 championships mean nothing nowadays. It almost pains me to write all that, like I said, I'm a Keselowski fan... but people delegitimize Johnson to an incredible level. This guy is THE guy to beat in Cup. When you beat Johnson, you've done something. That is all there is to it. So recognize greatness so you can take more pride in your driver when your driver beats him. Brad Keselowski's title last year was so great because he beat the greatest in THIS ERA. If Jimmie Johnson is thought of as some weak-minded driver who can't handle pressure (who somehow won 66 races and 5 championships without being able to race hard or handle pressure), then that discredits Keselowski... which would be bullcrap. If Kenseth throws down in the final two races, all you guys who are saying that Kenseth keeps Johnson in a comfort zone and the title race is over will be eating a TON of crow. 32. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.09.2013 - 6:20 am Rate this comment: (1) (3) Got to read JJ's comments. Pure hilarity. He says Brad is wrong, then proceeds to back up everything Brad said about Phoenix last year. I agree JJ can't win without a pure speed advantage. His first 4 titles were won by being faster than the field by a mile. Denny and Harvick were faster in 2010 but both are extremely weak mentally and neither held up under the pressure at all. Brad definitely has JJ's number in the mental department. Jimmie still has the yips when Brad talks. 33. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 11.09.2013 - 8:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) JJ could post back-to-back perfect driver ratings in consecutive races and may challenge Earnhardt's 260+ laps led in 1990. Also Johnson only needcingh a dominant car to win is pure fallacy. He should not have won the 06 title he just backed into it because nobody else wanted it. 06 was the poorest chase. Johnson won 30 races before he led 5000 laps and has won half half of his races without leading the most laps. Although since 2008 most of his wins have come with dominant cars.Kenseth must finish top3 assuming Johnson wins to keep any hope for homestead 34. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.09.2013 - 9:07 am Rate this comment: (2) (2) I support post #31. I vivdly am reminded of Charlotte in 2010, when early in the event Johnson went for a sideways spin on the backstretch, nearly becoming a repeat of his hard crash that same year in the 600. What happened? Johnson and his team were able to come back, and pulled a third place finish out of the event. Many people forget that when a car spins out, the balance is upset in several ways. Sadly, I cannot list them off the top of my head. Kind of like if you are running for a long time in a certain order, then begin to do it backwards, everything will just seem 'off'. Now everyone should remember something. We still have 712 miles of racing left in this year. Kenseth could pull something wild out of his ass, and Johnson could get shot in the foot like he did last year with the cut tire and mechanical issues. If Johnson leaves here winning and Kenseth doesn't even finish top 5, then yes, I'd hand the Championship to Johnson. But anything can happen still. ANYTHING! Also, why are you all b*tching about this again? Yes, it's Johnson, for the 6th time. But if you look at the 'Normal' Points standings, guess who is ahead by a LARGE margin? Jimmie Johnson. EVEN if you took the Chase away, and assume that Johnson finishes in the same spots for all of the races, he still is ahead. Ahead by an entire race! But I forget, some of you will just complain because it is a familiar face, or because it's not Dale Sr/Jeff Gordon winning a championship. Then again, I realize that this is rather pointless, because haters are going to hate, and ducks are going to duck. I'm probably just to young to understand how terrible Johnson is to the sport. 35. We need more Onion posted: 11.09.2013 - 9:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorenson deserves a shout for qualifying a LFR car in the top 25. Great job, even though they will probably park. Also good one from Wise, best starting FRM driver. 36. Bronco posted: 11.09.2013 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Do not care about the championship points battle anymore. Just wanting to see if Dale Jr can somehow continue his rally to finish 3rd in points by Homestead. That team's comeback since Chicago has been pretty remarkable even though it sucks they haven't won, despite being so close. 37. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.09.2013 - 12:54 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) I feel like people try to delegitimize Johnson and his accomplishments just so they feel more justified in disliking him. You guys do realize that, in sports, it's OK to dislike an athlete or team just because you dislike them, don't y'all? Having favorites and least favorites is part of what makes sports fun. I'll be the first to admit...the only reason (and I literally mean the ONLY reason) I dislike Jimmie Johnson is because I'm burned out on seeing him win all the time. I like to see different people win. There's nothing wrong with that. 38. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2013 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Of course Watto, several of those times where Jimmie finished well with a banged up car, the damage to the car was self-inflicted by Jimmie, and had he not done the damage himself, he might have won those races. How many times have we seen Jimmie throw away a possible win by being too aggressive with a looser setup. In fact, he did that earlier this year at Kentucky. His car is faster and better in traffic than anyone else's is because of running such a loose setup, but at times, that works against him because he ends up spinning out n his own because of running looser than anyone else does. However, what happened at Phoenix last year is more on Chad Knaus than it is Johnson because Johnson knew he had some sort of problem with the right front, and instead of pitting early (they were nearing a round of scheduled pit stops when that happened), Knaus wanted him to drive through it until the scheduled pit stop, and Johnson crashed when that bead melted. If he had pitted when he should have, he probably would not only have been alright, but might have brought the other leaders in sooner than they wanted to pit to keep from losing time to Johnson on fresh tires. 39. murb posted: 11.09.2013 - 1:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Also, why are you all b*tching about this again? Yes, it's Johnson, for the 6th time." Because I'm just tired of it. Sorry. 40. Cornys posted: 11.09.2013 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This looks to be Mark Martin's second to final Sprint Cup start. His presence will be missed. 41. Sean posted: 11.09.2013 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I looked it up. Bobby and Darrell did it three years in a row from 1981-1983." And Richard Petty and Cale Yarborough did it in 1974, 1976, and 1977, which is the only other case. 42. numbah10hatah posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Mark Martin and Jeff Burton in short: 2 of the best drivers to never win a single championship. 43. numbah10hatah posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #98 sponsor: GunBroker.com 44. Sean posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also looked up which pair of drivers had the most 1-2 finishes in both Formula One and IndyCar. Formula One is (little surprise) Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost, who did so 4 times, with Senna winning the title in 1988 and 1991 and Prost winning the title in 1989 and 1993. In IndyCar, two pairs of drivers finished 1-2 four times. A.J. Foyt and Rodger Ward did it in 1960, 1962, 1963, and 1964, with Foyt winning the 1960, 1963, and 1964 titles, and Bobby Rahal and Michael Andretti did it in 1986, 1987, 1991, and 1992, with Rahal winning the 1986, 1987, and 1992 titles. What do you think the odds would be that Graham Rahal and Marco Andretti could duplicate this even ONCE? 10,000-1 maybe? 45. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's one: Dale, Mark, and Rusty finished 1-2-3 in points twice in some order, '89 and '94. 46. Sean posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Mark Martin and Jeff Burton in short: 2 of the best drivers to never win a single championship." Martin at least I understand, although I'm not sure I'd even put HIM in my top five. But Jeff Burton? Um, no. Sure, he's one of the best drivers never to win a championship if you discount all the following names: Junior Johnson Fireball Roberts Fred Lorenzen Fonty Flock Marvin Panch Dick Hutcherson Jim Paschal Harry Gant Neil Bonnett Tim Richmond Davey Allison Ricky Rudd Geoff Bodine Ernie Irvan Mark Martin Kyle Busch Denny Hamlin Carl Edwards Kevin Harvick Buddy Baker Curtis Turner LeeRoy Yarbrough Bob Welborn Marshall Teague Hershel McGriff Billy Wade And I probably STILL forgot some... I bet if you gave me enough time I could fill an entire 43-driver Cup field with non-champions better than Burton...I'd probably have to include independents or dominant minor-league drivers who spent relatively little time in Cup, but I could probably do it. I suppose I was going a little overboard with the likes of Teague, McGriff, and Wade because they had very short Cup careers, but Burton still NEVER in his career showed that kind of dominance... By the way, that was just the order that they came to mind, not how I'd actually rank those drivers... 47. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yikes, I meant 3 times, '89, '93, and '94. It almost happened a 4th time in '90 but Rusty blew a bunch of engines late in the year in his final races with Blue Max. 48. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, as a group, yes Dale, Rusty, and Mark finished 1-2-3 three times. In 1989, it was Rusty, Dale, and Mark, in '93, Dale reversed the position on Rusty, and in '94 it was Mark's turn to reverse the position on Rusty, getting second place with Rusty having to settle for third. But I don't remember Rusty ever being a threat for third in 1990, as I always thought Geoff Bodine was a solid third most of the second half of the year. And Sean, how many of those drivers you listed even tried to run for a championship? Running for the championship didn't become important until the mid 1970s, and it didn't trump everything else (except possibly the Daytona 500) until at last the early 1980s. I remember Buddy Baker saying on numerous occasions that he actually made more money testing tires than he would have by running the smaller races, so running for the championship wasn't very lucrative until about 1973 or '74. But I would put Burton in the top 15-20 drivers no to win a title since it became important to chase a championship, though there are quite a few other holes in his resume. 49. Sean posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I understand that back in Fred Lorenzen's day, winning marquee races was more important than winning championships. I understand the reasons why most of the drivers I listed did not win titles. But numbah10hatah explicitly listed Burton as one of the best when I wouldn't even put him in the top ten in the modern era when drivers did fully commit to championships. I tend to think drivers who peaked in that late '90s era are all overrated (except maybe Gordon), perhaps because that's a time people feel nostalgia for NASCAR as that's probably when NASCAR was "hippest" culturally...even if the racing of the late '80s/early '90s was clearly better. The late '90s was a power vacuum where there were a lot of really bad drivers in good cars and superior (albeit second-tier drivers) in really bad cars. Chad Little vs. Bobby Hamilton. Say no more, right? The current era is somewhat similar except I'd say there are MORE good drivers in good cars now, and I'd also say the drivers outside the good cars are much, much worse now than in the '90s. 50. Paul posted: 11.09.2013 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) From what I can gather, it sounds like Jeff Burton has a part-time Cup ride lined up for next season, Mark Martin will be testing for Stewart-Haas Racing this January at Daytona (and likely will remain a part of that organization), and Bobby Labonte is interested in having a part-time Cup ride and/or a full-time Trucks ride. No driver has ever won a championship in all three national NASCAR racing divisions, and Labonte could attempt to make history should a Truck opportunity come his way. Labonte currently has no ride for the season finale at Homestead, but I hope one of the smaller teams offer him a ride for that race just so he, Burton, and Martin can all make their final starts as Cup regulars at the same time. Regardless, the clock is ticking on the end of an era as three of the top drivers from what I refer to as the "Jeff Gordon Era" (1995-2003) will all be retiring from (full-time) Cup competition over the next two races. It makes me sad as a nostalgic racing fan who enjoys seeing veteran drivers from the past continue racing, even when they're well past their primes, but at least they'll be going out on their terms. Of course, this does give them more time to film that movie about three old guys in Las Vegas, as Jeff Burton humorously stated in an interview the other day, haha. 51. murb posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burton at least deserves to be on the list that you made earlier, Sean. I really don't think he's THAT overrated. I liken him to Terry Labonte. He's basically Terry without the two championships. Look at the places he's won at. Darlington (multiple times), Rockingham, Phoenix (pre-repave multiple times), Dover (in an epic battle over Matt Kenseth), Loudon numerous times, and Martinsville, Richmond, and Bristol (although the Bristol win was a fluke because Hamlin had that fuel problem or whatever). So I fail to see how someone that can win a bunch of races on those tracks should be considered overrated or not as good as others. So I think he at least deserves to be on that list, especially if you are gonna put someone on there like Harvick (one of the streakiest drivers ever, as opposed to Burton who was a consistent top five or six driver from about 1997-2000). 52. Sean posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Burton at least deserves to be on the list that you made earlier, Sean." It was a list of drivers I considered better than Burton, so not really. "He's basically Terry without the two championships." You've got a point there. My main issue with Burton is in fact LONGEVITY. He was ONLY really relevant or FEARED from about 1997-2000, a period when Hendrick, Roush, and Yates were greatly superior to any other teams (yes, Hendrick was bad after Ray Evernham left), and those teams had a lot of worthless drivers driving for them (Dallenbach, Lepage, Little, Irwin...) That was the shallowest period in Cup since maybe the early '80s and when Cup was deeper (early '90s/early 2000s) Burton was pretty lost. It was only when it started getting a bit shallower again (late 2000s) that Burton returned to form. It's the line between having a solid, respectable career and being a legend that I am making. Almost every driver I listed on that list I'd call a legend, but I wouldn't say that of Burton (notice there are other drivers I didn't put on that list like Junior, Marlin, and Bowyer, all of whom I view rather similarly to Burton in fact...good solid workhorses but not GREAT). Most of those drivers failed to win titles in eras when Cup was DEEP, and were relevant/dominant for a much longer period than 4 years, even if they didn't accrue quite the win totals because they either had shortened careers, weren't full-time, and/or had much more competition. Burton was a very good driver, but he was a very good driver in an era when there were few other very good drivers in top-level equipment. It's the same kind of thing that separates Sebastian Vettel (great) from Mark Webber (good), Michael Schumacher (great) from Rubens Barrichello (good), etc..., etc..., etc... Burton was usually beaten by his teammates when he had truly great teammates (Martin, Kurt Busch, Kenseth...) As for Burton vs. Harvick, sorry, got to go for Harvick. He's faced more competition in his prime than Burton has, driven on average worse cars, and beat him straight up. Although Harvick does have invisible seasons, they seem to be largely dependent on RCR equipment, while Burton had a long invisible run from 2002-2005 that didn't seem to be, since his teammates were winning. Harvick seems to have more longevity in the sense that any year he is theoretically capable of having a year as good as his best seasons, while nobody really thought that of Burton by the mid-2000s. Put more succinctly, I'm more impressed by someone who can have 4 championship-caliber seasons several years apart (when NASCAR changed more significantly) than 4 championship-caliber seasons only in one era. Harvick is also more versatile (better on plate tracks and road courses). And trust me, I can't stand him so this isn't my personal bias talking. As for your Burton/Labonte comparison, the main difference is that Labonte was theoretically capable of having a good season every year from 1979 to 2003, given good equipment. It doesn't mean he always did, but he had significantly more longevity, was better on short tracks/road courses, etc... He was only really outperformed by ONE teammate when he had teammates (Gordon), and he was able to even have occasional good seasons despite really lousy equipment (1992). When Burton had lousy equipment by contrast (Stavola Brothers '94-'95) Hut Stricklin IMPROVED ON HIM. Now I don't think Stricklin sucked or anything (he was probably one of the better non-winners of that era) but that still says something. Ricky Rudd is the better example for "Terry Labonte without the titles" in my opinion. 53. Jim Davis posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (3) (2) "It makes me sad as a nostalgic racing fan who enjoys seeing veteran drivers from the past continue racing, even when they're well past their primes, but at least they'll be going out on their terms." I'll take the contrary view. Sure, drivers like Labonte, Martin, and Burton are great people and great drivers and a great credit to the sport. But they should retire and probably should have retired a few years ago. And by retired I mean retired, not hanging on in the truck series or something. All these drivers are doing by getting rides at this point in their careers are making sure that a young driver never gets a shot at a ride. I can't count the number of times a poster has said something like "I sure hope Bobby Labonte can land one more quality ride" on a cup page and then on a Nationwide page the same poster will say something like "I sure hope Johanna Long can get a full time ride next year". If old drivers, long past their primes, don't retire, young drivers do not get opportunities. The only real exception to this are cases where old drivers, like Ken Schrader and Terry Labonte, can bring sponsorship to a struggling team like FAS Lane, and the choice is not an old driver or a young driver but an old driver or no driver. It's a similar dynamic to cup drivers in lower series. 54. Sean posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "From what I can gather, it sounds like Jeff Burton has a part-time Cup ride lined up for next season, Mark Martin will be testing for Stewart-Haas Racing this January at Daytona (and likely will remain a part of that organization), and Bobby Labonte is interested in having a part-time Cup ride and/or a full-time Trucks ride. No driver has ever won a championship in all three national NASCAR racing divisions, and Labonte could attempt to make history should a Truck opportunity come his way. Labonte currently has no ride for the season finale at Homestead, but I hope one of the smaller teams offer him a ride for that race just so he, Burton, and Martin can all make their final starts as Cup regulars at the same time. Regardless, the clock is ticking on the end of an era as three of the top drivers from what I refer to as the "Jeff Gordon Era" (1995-2003) will all be retiring from (full-time) Cup competition over the next two races. " I agree that I'd love to see Labonte get a ride for Homestead and have all three of them go out together, since they all peaked around the same time and it would be rather fitting. Having said that, it's far too late for Labonte to even think about winning a truck title. If Labonte really wanted that championship sweep, he should have retired from Cup around the time he was driving for Petty when the old guard was still competitive in the trucks (Hornaday, Skinner, Benson, T. Bodine, etc...) Bobby Labonte probably would have been able to win a title against those guys. But against guys a generation younger like James Buescher, Ty Dillon, Jeb Burton, Ryan Blaney, Darrell Wallace, Jr., (insert whichever hot truck prospect you like here)? No way, so what's the point unless he wants to have fun? I would liken a Labonte move to trucks now similarly to Al Unser, Jr. switching from CART to IRL when CART still had the much better drivers because few of the CART teams were interested in him after he finished 21st in points for Penske in 1999. It's worth noting that despite Unser, Jr.'s previously legendary career (in addition to his two titles he finished 3rd in 3 of the 4 years Rahal and Andretti went 1-2, similar to what DSFF was talking about) he was unable to finish in the top five in IRL points, despite competing against on average much weaker talents... At this point, there are probably a bunch of young truck drivers who are better than Labonte now and he wouldn't win a title. I wish he HAD done that, about five years ago. The difference of course is that Labonte is, was, and always will be a nice guy, while Unser, Jr. had become an abusive alcoholic and embarrassment to racing (although it seems like he's worked through some of his issues in recent years, and I have to give him credit for that). 55. murb posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Those are all good points, Sean. I wouldn't consider Burton a legend or "great" either, but in my opinion he is one of the best 20 or so drivers to never win a championship. I just go back to all the tracks that he's won on. You don't win multiple races at Darlington, Rockingham, Martinsville, Richmond, etc, without being a good driver. Now, is he as good of a non-champion as a lot of the guys on your list? No. But in my opinion he at least deserves to be recognized as one of the best non Cup champions of the modern era, even if his spot is towards the back half of the top 20. Sorry, but he's been one of my two or three favorite drivers since I started watching in 1998 (and my current favorite active driver for two more races), so I have to stick up for him, lol. 56. murb posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Bobby could get a Truck ride with RCR or one of the good teams with an opening, I think he could probably run top ten in points or so. Kind of like how Brendan Gaughan has been lately. I don't know if he could win a championship since there are so many good younger drivers and teams in Trucks. But I do think he could run top ten in points, and maybe win a race or two if he could get in the right position. 57. numbah10hatah posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK, maybe I was wrong about Burton, but I still think Mark Martin was one the best drivers to never win a championship. 58. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chiming in on the Jeff Burton debate...it's completely subjective depending on where you draw the line on "one of". Personally, I tend to agree that Jeff Burton is "one of" the best never to win a championship, but there are quite a few I put ahead of him. In fact, I agree with most of Sean's list. 59. Eric posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Mark Martin leaving the cup series as a cup driver is a good move because he is starting to turn into Darrell Waltrip and Richard Petty was in their final years of their cup career. If you are long time NASCAR Fan, it was hard to see how bad Richard Petty and Darrell Waltrip was in their final seasons as a cup driver. Mark Martin this year is really starting to fit into that mode and that is not a good thing if you are long time fan of Mark Martin. 60. Sector posted: 11.09.2013 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny Hamlin, as mentioned before earlier in this comment section, has clinched the Pole Award even after being knocked off by Jimmie Johnson in this qualifying effort. Not only that, Hamlin made history as being the furthest back in the Points Standing to win a Pole Award. Neil Bonnett's 1977 season had 6 poles ending 18th in the standings, despite 7 lesser starts than most higher up. Denny Hamlin, has 4 less starts this year due to injury, will finish no better than 23rd in this year's standing(Casey Mears is only 3 points back in 24th), with 5 poles heading into the final race @ Homestead. Also, this is Joe Gibbs Racing's first Pole Award in the Cup Series. 61. Eric posted: 11.09.2013 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No one mentioned it, but Ken Schrader isn't going to race in the cup series after this year. 62. Eric posted: 11.09.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, You are overestimating the amount of young talent for the truck series for next year. Ty Dillon isn't going to race in the truck series next year because he's going to be a Nationwide regular. Turner Scott wants James Buescher to race in the Nationwide next year. The other thing the future of Kyle Busch Motorsports isn't known except that the 77 team with Parker Kligerman in the Nationwide series appears to be closing based on what was said on the air today during the Nationwide Race. The truck series teams for Kyle Busch has problems with sponsorship also to my knowledge in terms of Darrell Wallace. 63. Paul posted: 11.09.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The other thing the future of Kyle Busch Motorsports isn't known" Kyle Busch is currently putting the finishing touches on having Bubba Wallace return to the #54 truck, while also seeking sponsorship for himself and Erik Jones to split time in the #51 truck in 2014. Jones won't turn 18 until May 20th, so he wouldn't be able to run a full Trucks schedule anyways, per NASCAR rules. 64. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.09.2013 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, Rusty was 3rd to Dale and Mark for 2 weeks after the Firecracker 400 and the next race at Pocono. But he blew 6 engines in the final 13 races to fall to 6th even though he led laps and won some poles. Odd stat of that year that correlates to Denny's Pole Title this year: Dale Earnhardt won the Pole Award that year OUTRIGHT. Even Bodine, a very strong qualifier, never won the Pole Title outright. He tied a time or two, and may have won on tiebreakers, but nobody in 1990 won as many poles as Dale. That blows my mind. 65. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.09.2013 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Off topic, but there is a bright light on horizon for me, not matter how the Sprint Cup championship turns out... Auburn is having one of the greatest turnarounds in college football history. The were 3-9 last year, but are already 9-1 this year. They have a decent shot at winning the Iron Bowl, the SEC championship, and will almost certainly make it to a BCS Bowl even if they lose to Bama. Heck, who knows? We may even have a slight shot at the National Championship. I'm trying to think if there is a comparable NASCAR season for a driver, but I can't think of any off the top of my head. Maybe Keselowski 2010 vs. Keselowski 2011. 66. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay DSFF, that must be why Rusty wasn't a threat for third place during the second half of the season, but his brief time up there in points was shortly after his two wins that year (at Charlotte in the only big one he got and Sonoma, when Morgan Shepherd briefly got the point lead over Earnhardt before fading fast). And that is an odd stat about Bodine never winning a pole title outright, considering that, among drivers that could be considered his contemporaries, only four won more poles than Bodine's 37 (Waltrip, Elliott, Martin, and Gordon). And the fact that Earnhardt won the pole award in 1990 shows just how fast his cars were that year, because he was never that good a qualifier, something he admitted many times. 67. Sean posted: 11.09.2013 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Earnhardt still averaged a pole a year despite not having any poles in his last 4.5 seasons. I think that's pretty good. His qualifying record looks good in general from 1979-1990. Maybe not the best, or nearly as good as his finishing record, but still good. I'd say in the '90s Earnhardt wasn't as FAST as he was in the '80s (some of that was certainly due to RCR's decline throughout the decade) but he drove smarter, saving his equipment, playing it safe, helping to create RCR's conservative style (but still winning because he was obviously a better driver than anyone RCR has had since) and a lot of that was reflected in qualifying. Matt Kenseth is to Kyle Busch like '90s Earnhardt was to '80s Earnhardt. Polished, steady, and consistent vs. wild and aggressive. Earnhardt was obviously much better than both Kenseth and Busch, but I think the analogy still works. Kenseth focuses on his race setups, just like Earnhardt did in the '90s. While I definitely WOULD call Kenseth a bad qualifier, I certainly would NOT call Earnhardt a bad qualifier. He was just an even better racer. Earnhardt being a lousy qualifier is as big a myth as him being a lousy road racer. Kenseth is the worst-qualifying champion... 68. Sean posted: 11.09.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I probably didn't pick a good year to say that since Kenseth is actually the average start leader this season, and there haven't been many rain-shortened qualifying sessions, but still... 69. cjs3872 posted: 11.09.2013 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, Earnhardt admitted many times that he wasn't a good qualifier. But you are right about him racing smarter in the 90s, which is why he was able to win four title in the first five years in the decade. And one way he raced smarter, as far as racing for championships go, was that he was able to take the biggest weakness his key competitors had, and use that knowledge to his advantage. For instance, he and his team used Roush's conservative engine setups against Roush in 1990, he used Rusty Wallace's greatest weakness, restrictor plate racing as a hammer in both 1993 and '94, and he was the most consistently successful driver in each of his last three championship seasons (1991, '93-'94). The Earnhardt of the 80s would not have won those titles. And one hammer he always had back then was his pit crew, which like the driver, was the best of it's generation. They don't get talked about as much as they should be as it relates to Earnhardt's success, but they were a big reason Earnhardt won so many championships from 1986-'94. The cars were not as fast after 1990, but the team, even in transition, was still the best for several more seasons, and Earnhardt relied on that more than a lot of people think. Earnhardt was not only the best driver, but he had the best team. 70. David posted: 11.09.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "No one mentioned it, but Ken Schrader isn't going to race in the cup series after this year." Actually, it was mentioned on the Martinsville page. On Mark Martin: I think he's probably one of the greatest Cup drivers ever to win neither the championship or the Daytona 500, though there are several good candidates (Harry Gant, Curtis Turner, Neil Bonnett, etc.). "I agree that I'd love to see Labonte get a ride for Homestead and have all three of them go out together, since they all peaked around the same time and it would be rather fitting." Wow, Sean said this? ;) 71. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.09.2013 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Dale Earnhardt in the 90s was the most cerebral driver ever, even more than Pearson in his prime. Because Dale had something in his bag of tricks almost every other "cerebral" driver didn't have or were unwilling to use: aggression. While Dale in the 80s drove with pure aggression winning almost all of his races by going oit and getting them, not sitting back and waiting for them to come to him (big exception: the '86 Coke 600), we saw a different Dale starting in '90, possibly as a result of his '89 collapse. He swept the Darlington races that year, each time by hanging out, driving the track, avoiding the carnage, and being there in the end to use his superior driving ability to take them both. Dale in the '90s still used his bumper, but not every chance he got. In the '80s he was driving those fastback Monte Carlo war tanks. He could beat the hell out of those and not lose speed for the most part. The Luminas were much more sensitive. In the season finale in '93, after he clinched the title when enough cars fell out, he began a charge to the front that was halted when he got loose under Greg Sacks and dented in the right side causing him to get lapped. So Dale used his bumper in certain times to send a message. At Rockingham 1996 in the second race of the season, after yet another disappointing Daytona 500 loss which followed a disappointing 1995 championship runner up (I think "second place" was Dale's least favorite phrase), he punted Bobby Hamilton out of the way for the lead late. The message was "I'm still Dale Earnhardt and I'm still an asshole". Watch out! And in the '99 Bristol Night Race, when he was being passed in the sport by younger guns Gordon, BLab, Burton, Jarrett, and Stewart, he made it clear you weren't gonna just drive past Dale Earnhardt in the final laps at a place like Bristol like he was some pushover. If you look at that famous picture in Turn 2 on the final lap of Dale diving under Terry's car which is beginning the zpin Dale sent him into, if you look into Dale's car at his face in that open face helmet, I swear you can see him smiling. Btw, do you know who else is a "cerebral" driver willing and happy to use aggression? Jeff Gordon. I'm telling you, Earnhardt in the 90s and Gordon have very similar driving styles. The difference is Jeff always has publicly played down his aggression to maintain his squeaky clean image, while Dale played UP his aggression, creating marketing juggernaut The Intimidator, the coolest superhero ever. 72. Ched Little posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:08 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) Enjoy the mind-r@pe classic today at Phoenix folks. This is shaping up to be less competitive than yesterday's farce. 73. Dense Drip posted: 11.10.2013 - 10:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I had the weirdest dream about today's race. Dave Blaney and Denny Hamlin got in a fight after a wreck and Denny K.O.'d Dave. 74. RaceFanX posted: 11.10.2013 - 10:28 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kyle Petty made a Canadian politics joke during the pre-race at the expense of Toronto mayor Rob Ford. Taking about why Clint Bowyer should 'own up' about spinning on purpose at Richmond he joked he use the mayor of Toronto as an example. Mayor Ford admitted to using crack cocaine while mayor in the week leading up to this race causing a scandal that jumped the border. 75. numbah10hatah posted: 11.10.2013 - 11:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dense Drip: I don't think Blaney has ever been the fighting type. 76. numbah10hatah posted: 11.10.2013 - 11:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, in that list you put Harvick and Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards and Hamlin, they still have time to win championships. Hamlin and Edwards have both came EXTREMELY close. Just ask Edwards. 77. JRacingFast posted: 11.10.2013 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe some crazy pit strategy will happen and there will be a surprise winner today..... 78. David posted: 11.10.2013 - 12:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dense Drip: I don't think Blaney has ever been the fighting type." It was probably one of those one-sided fights where one is throwing all the punches and the other is just trying to defend himself. 79. The Long Shot posted: 11.10.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is unrelated to racing, but I think Terry Bradshaw just dropped the "n-bomb" on NFL on Fox. He was talking about the Richie Incognito situation, mentioning some of the things that Incognito said in his texts to Jonathan Martin, and in the midst of that, the n-word seemed to slip out. 80. 18fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 1:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I read an article on Bleacher Report (take that for what it's worth) that said that it was a shame that Carl Edwards hasn't won a championship because of the "fact that Edwards is literally the best driver to never win a championship in this day and age". I think that, at the very least, Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, and Denny Hamlin are better than Carl. 81. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well 18fan, among the top or second-tier drivers today, I'd have to agree that Carl Edwards is the best not to win a title. He tied for second in 2005 (he lost that tie-breaker to Greg Biffle due to wins, so Edwards got third), finished second in 2008 we he won nine times, and lost the 2011 championship on a tie-breaker to Tony Stewart. He's certainly had the most chances to win the title. The thing about Edwards is that he's proven time and time again that he crumbles under the pressure, as does Kyle Busch, as he's again proven this year. Saying that, you wonder what Edwards might do if he got away from Jack Roush's underperforming cars, based on what Kenseth's done this year, whether he wins the championship or not. That radio communication that ESPN picked up on from Trevor Bayne in yesterday's NNS race said it all when Bayne said that his car had no response when he punched the throttle. That's something I've been saying all year, and now one of Roush's drivers actually said it during a race. I've been wondering when one of Roush's drivers would have something to say about the Roush cars' obvious lack of horsepower, and Bayne did exactly that over the radio yesterday. 82. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But if you look at the 'Normal' Points standings, guess who is ahead by a LARGE margin? Jimmie Johnson. EVEN if you took the Chase away..." I don't think you're really helping your argument. See, I truly believe many of "us" would have a lot more respect for JJ this year and in general because this would be title number two or three without The Chase having ever existed; speaking for myself, I'd say Jimmie had a dominant year and probably should win it all, I wouldn't see this as a gift wrapped title. I wonder how many others agree. I've said it before, I'll say it again. JJ is the Yankees or Packers of NASCAR. You love him or hate him. Same goes for his fans. "Btw, do you know who else is a "cerebral" driver willing and happy to use aggression? Jeff Gordon. I'm telling you, Earnhardt in the 90s and Gordon have very similar driving styles. The difference is Jeff always has publicly played down his aggression to maintain his squeaky clean image, while Dale played UP his aggression, creating marketing juggernaut The Intimidator, the coolest superhero ever." Totally agree with you DSFF. 83. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just remebered something. I've been *trying* to follow a racing series that usually plays from about this time of year until March of the next year. Maybe some of you have heard of it: Arena Racing USA The series is kind of like a bunch of Heat Races on a High-banked Martinsville/Low-Banked Bristol styled track. Constant bumping and banging, allthough not that many lead changes, but alot of fancy finishes, racing moments, and crashes have come from that series. I know 80-90 percent of us are bored of the NASCAR seasons, so maybe you guys might like something like that??? Sadly, it's hard to get any good coverage on the events. 84. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think that, at the very least, Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, and Denny Hamlin are better than Carl." I think those three are more talented drivers than Carl, but I think Carl is pretty high on the list by default since he would have two titles right now if two little things would have gone differently in 2008 and 2011. 85. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #83 Wow I never heard of this, looks super fun. I wonder how expensive that is to run such races and can amateurs enter as drivers? 86. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, seems to be for kids or any body with kid-sized body. 87. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @82, Jimmie Johnson's the Yankees or Packers of NASCAR? The Yankees I might agree with, but not the Packers. If you want to compare Johnson's success and polarity to that of another NFL team, it might be the Raiders, Steelers, or Cowboys, because while they were the most successful for so many year, they were the most polarizing teams in the NFL, as well. If you want to compare the #48 team to an NFL team of more recent vintage, it would be the Patriots, not just because of their success but also how they're either loved or hated by just about everyone. The Packers have always been one of the most beloved NFL franchises, but except for their NFC North rivals, I don't think the Packers are disliked by very many people, because of what they've historically represented. 88. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty subdued pre race so far. Not bad really. None of these vignettes with crappy music blasting (for the most part). Rusty and Ray giving pretty insightful analysis, and Brad not acting a fool too much. Maybe they will finally realize less is more. 89. Jocke Persson posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is too cheesy.. 90. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) BSPN got it wrong there when showing the finish of last year's race. Danica spun out and hit the wall prior to that huge mess coming to the checkered flag; she didn't blow an engine. 91. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but except for their NFC North rivals" That's me. Vikings fan here. I do have to respectfully disagree with you to some point. I'll give you the Raiders/Cowboys/Steelers and Pats, maybe they are better choices when looking at the *big* picture. The thing is I do see some Green Bay hatred (or at least annoyance)coming from New England fans (and that maybe related to Super Bowl XXI) and other east coast fans. The other reason I pick the Pack? They're media (ESPN anyway) darlings. Well, let's say JJ is to NASCAR what The Yankees are to MLB. I think everyone gets what I mean there, lol. 92. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, crazy first lap. Johnson almost got wrecked. 93. epzik8 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I tuned in right at the green flag. 94. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did the "other 42" have a meeting and decide to gang up on Johnson today or something? 95. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kudos to Joey for racing him hard right there. Make him earn it. 96. RaceFanX posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson gets a bump from Joey Lagano at the start. Gotta be a racing deal, I doubt he'd be trying to help Matt Kenseth and the #20. 97. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What an intense first lap, that was almost disastrous for JJ. 98. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe not RaceFanX, but Denny Hamlin racing him as hard as he did certainly did help Kenseth by keeping Johnson from leading. Johnson getting loose under Hamlin was really what set all that up. And Hamlin did nothing wrong there, but that was what opened up a potential third lane for Logano. 99. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Comparing Dos Jotas to the Yanks or Cowboys is giving him too much credit. If the fans(outside of here and other hardcores)were really booing him or hating him at every instance, I'd agree but it seems like there's more apathy towards him than anything else, akin to maybe how the Spurs were the dominant team in the 2000's in the NBA and a lot of people could care less. 100. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow that was too close for Johnson! And a lap after that first-lap contact, did you guys see how Kandy Kahne absolutely gave Jimmie his spot on track! ROLL OVER, KANDY!!! 101. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course I can't resist flipping by occasionally, who am I kidding? Missed the first lap, but saw 7-9. Heard Jarrett make a good point, JJ will probably back off and try to protect his lead and we'll have all sorts of agendas out there with guys trying to pad their stats, break win-less streaks, etc. Maybe this won't be too boring after all. I'll look again in a while. 102. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon gets the lead. His car looks pretty strong today. 103. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ 99 "...I'd agree but it seems like there's more apathy towards him than anything else, akin to maybe how the Spurs were the dominant team in the 2000's in the NBA and a lot of people could care less." Hmm, you do make an interesting point there too. Man, if only Gordon hadn't wrecked last week...him leading would make it all the more interesting of a race and Chase. 104. Wallmendinger posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see the 10 running in her usual position. 105. MStall41 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Surprsingly intense racing so far, lot of passing in the top 5 106. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Early analysis: The 24 and 29 are the cars to beat today. Will the drivers of those cars, Gordon and Harvick, rise to the occasion, though? 107. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR.com's Live Leaderboard is crediting Johnson with leading a lap. They actually counted the pace lap as a lap...? 108. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meanwhile...at JGR, the 18 and 11 almost take each other out in front of the 20. 109. Wallmendinger posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How many articles were written this week about Danicas improvement? If anything she's getting worse. 110. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd agree but it seems like there's more apathy towards him than anything else, akin to maybe how the Spurs were the dominant team in the 2000's in the NBA and a lot of people could care less." The only difference is that pretty much everybody respects and recognizes that the Spurs are probably the best organized team in basketball, even if people could care less about them. That's not really the case with the 48 for a variety of reasons. I think the best other sports team to compare the 48 team to is the New England Patriots, like CJS was talking about. They have so many similarities. "Pretty boy" franchise players/drivers (Tom Brady/Jimmie Johnson), mad scientist head coaches/crew chiefs (Bill Belichick/Chad Knaus), and they are usually one of the two or three headlines of their respective leagues, even if they are in years where they aren't major championship contenders or champions. To me that's the best comparison. 111. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race has been nice. I've said it a bunch of times, but I really enjoy the Gen 6 on these shorter tracks. 112. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy crap, Hamlin has dropped from the lead to 18th in 25 laps... 113. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) People are really talking about Danica's improvement? WHAT improvement? If she's improved any over the course of the year, it's been nearly impossible to notice. She only seems competitive at the plate tracks (where everyone can be competitive) and Martinsville. But as I've before, I can't wait to see that huge improvement she's supposed to show next year. 114. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) story of Hamlins races of recent when he qualifies well, lead 20 laps 20th 20 laps later, 115. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Don't forget Spygate/any race the 48 eeks through inspection 10 times without penalty. I just didn't agree with the level of love/hate as compared to the Yanks/Cowboys/Lakers. At least the fans stuck around to cheer or boo when Dale or Jeff were dominating NASCAR. 116. MStall41 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gen 6 is way better than Gen 5 on short tracks, which I think proves this car would be really good on intermediates once the aero issues are figured out 117. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing I've noticed about Denny since he's come back is that he can be really good on short runs, but then he's just totally garbage on long runs. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with his injury or not, but it's a possibility. 118. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin has fallen all the way back to 23rd, well over half a lap down, in just over 30 laps. Caution flag is apparently out. 119. RaceFanX posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since when is Danica Patrick an Arizona driver? Isn't she usually considered an Illinois one. Of course racers move (California Jeff Gordon's later youth in Indiana, Arkansas Mark Martin still lives in Daytona doesn't he?) 120. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Turns out Hamlin brought out the caution for spinning. 121. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny spins for the caution. Maybe he had a tire going down or something. 122. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) iirc, Danica lived in Phoenix when she was married. 123. Wallmendinger posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I just don't understand how a Stewart Haas car can run slower than the 98,95,35,34,38,83,93. The budget for her car Is probably more than Front Row and BK Racing's budget for all 5 of those cars. 124. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Matt Kenseth almost hit the pit wall trying to avoid David Reutimann. 125. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Allgaier did a good job staying off of Denny, pre and post spin. 126. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr. comes to the pits with a loose wheel. 127. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When did Jimmie lead a lap??? 128. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson has not led a lap so far. For some reason, the Live Leaderboard apparently counts the pace lap coming to the green as a lap and is crediting him for that. 129. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Ragan to the garage with mechanical woes AGAIN. 130. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson appears to have possibly THE best car while Kenseth's car appears to be quite mediocre (all the Gibbs cars do, actually). 131. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty good race so far :) Hate to see Johnson doing well and Kenseth not though. Otherwise, good race so far :) 132. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Obligatory Danica sighting as she gets lapped. 133. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) BoB goes two laps down. 134. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution out for some reason not being explained. Probably debris? 135. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Apparently the reason for the caution was Joe Nemechek driving on the race track. 136. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to say I am really disappointed with Danica's performance and I thought she'd be a lot better as she revisited tracks. I guess one factor could be that she's never run in a series with such a long season and there's a level of mental (and physical to some extent) fatigue, but you think running Nationwide last year would have helped with that if it was an issue. Caution for "trouble"... no further info on the cause, but the cameras are focused on Nemechek, and that would never happen unless he was responsible for the caution somehow. 137. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WHY WAS THAT A CAUTION? 138. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really? They're throwing a caution for that? He didn't even touch the wall. How damn trigger happy IS NASCAR? 139. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He didn't even touch the wall. 140. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If that's a caution, there would be a yellow thrown at Darlington every lap. 141. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What the !@#$#!@# was that! DUMB 142. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) what a pointless caution, 143. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That might be the worst caution I've ever seen that's not phony debris. 144. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Field was too strung out, and NASCAR knows the fans are on to their "debris cautions" scheme... gotta make a caution out of anything they can now. 145. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Second caution out...for this. Joe Nemechek." *ESPN proceeds to show a replay of Nemechek running high and out of the groove* REALLY??? THAT warrants a yellow? Just....wow. 146. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Nemechek WAS the debris. 147. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) What the !@#$#!@# was that! DUMB 148. RaceFanX posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's a first, a caution for a driver off line. That's probably more of mistake and calling too soon (or the flag calling it too quick) than enemy action. 149. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 4 are on two tires and the next 3 at least are on 4. Will be interesting to see what sort of a difference it makes. I think after 20 laps or so, Keselowski will be leading and Johnson and Harvick will be close behind. 150. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you're going to throw a caution for THAT, they might as well just go ahead and throw a caution flag every time someone gets out of the racing groove. 151. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reminds me of the second caution that was thrown in 2011 at Spring Richmond for...someone almost brushing the wall. 152. Mr X posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, Joe Nemechek actually hit NOTHING!!! He just slid up the track close to the wall. Pretty pathetic that NASCAR makes it that obvious when they're looking for a caution. 153. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) The Gibbs cars are junk. Ever since Smoke Smoked 'em in '05, I have never seen an organization consistently falter when it truly matters, mechanically or setup wise, like this. Beginning with Tony's horrible runs in the Summer of '06 to miss the chase, to Denny's disaster of a '07 chase, to Kyle's well documented 10th place finish in '08 after an 8 won season, to Kyle's mediocre runs to miss the '09 chase to Denny's epic 2010 meltdown and choke to Kyle's strong run into the 2011 chase only to falter yet again, to his 2nd Summer meltdown in '12 to miss the chase, to this year where Matt was the class of the field until these last few races. Its over. It is so hard watching this sport die before my eyes. I know people say "if it is so bad why do you keep watching it?". Cause I love NASCAR goddamnit. So many of my greatest childhood memories came from watching this sport and especially attending their live events. I still remember exactly how I felt in 1991 Fall time at North Wilkesboro watching Dale pass Harry on the outside with 10 to go. I was only 7. I'll never forget that excitement. It is really hard to just give it up. But its coming. I'm bitterly unhappy and ready to split. 154. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) For about 100 laps now this race will be illigitimate.. like every other fake yellow flag.. only this was worse.. Pure stupidity. 155. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Timmy Hill crashes. 156. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Timmy Hill slams the wall. That's something we rarely ever see out of him. 157. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution out, it might be real this time 158. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "For about 100 laps now this race will be illigitimate.. like every other fake yellow flag.. only this was worse.. Pure stupidity." Bad call, but making the race illegitimate for 100 laps? Eh, methinks that's a bit hyperbolic. 159. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSr fan... I have to agree. Sadly. It's not Jimmie, it's not the drivers... it's the officiating. Real caution.. if NASCAR would have just waited they would have got it without pissing off myself and my girlfriend and thousands of others. 160. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other news, what a crazy ending to regulation in the Baltimore/Cincinnati game. 161. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch isn't rolling over for Jimmie. 162. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I really don't think anyone in NASCAR's upper echelons know what to do any more. They are finally realizing that NASCAR will never be as popular as football/basketball/baseball/golf/whatnot, so they've just given up trying to make the sport more appealing and they're just doing whatever sounds good to them at the moment. 163. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another Burger King blow up. 164. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Travis Kvapil caution of the race is out, Matt needs to play some strategy now. 165. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dave Blaney spins and Travis Kvapil has mechanical problems. Can anybody do a count on the number of races in which NEITHER BK Racing car had a problem? 166. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did they just cut to commercial in the middle of pit stops? 167. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder how much, or how less Burger King actually pays for that team... 168. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Did they just cut to commercial in the middle of pit stops? In the words of Andy Petree, "the other cars" were pitting. 169. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joke coverage. 170. Mr X posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is late but it'll be funny to see after this race is stated for the reason for the 2nd caution, Joe Nemechek, turn 3. 171. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wonder how much, or how less Burger King actually pays for that team..." BK Racing should be paying Burger King for the damage they're doing to the brand. 172. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I still think BSPN is better than FOX's miserable coverage...but at times like this, it's REALLY hard to say who's better or worse. 173. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Matador 5 says Ole! 174. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Kenseth is sinking like a stone. 175. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth is sinking like a stone. 176. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @168 Well that's dumb. A lot of the back runners in The Chase pitted during that flag. The difference between 10th and 11th could be the difference between a banquet appearance. I, personally, care about that. 177. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would laugh about our double comment, Schroeder, but I'm too disappointed with Kenseth's garbage run. 178. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth is dog meat right now, they just can't get that car right. 179. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Huge crash off turn 4. BoB and Cole Whitt are involved. 180. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth's car is a piece of shit. 181. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Big wreck. Cole Whitt with the most damage. BoB was also involved and so was Allgaier. 182. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Looks like Reutimann was involved as well. I'm telling you, those BK cars are cursed. 183. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tow truck was blocking pit road as some damaged cars were trying to come in. I'm really starting to think BK Racing is just doing whatever it takes to get on TV at this point. This can't just all be bad luck. 184. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon stays out. Don't think that's a good move. 185. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth says he doesn't even know what to fix on his car. Can't wait until Daytona. 186. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #158 Yes it does. It changes everything. I could say the whole race, and I would be equally right in doing so. BK and Kahane wouldn't be where they are, pit strategy would be different, everything. Would there have been these cautions following it? We'll never know. 187. Dense Drip posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I'm calling that BK Racing's going to shut down after this year because of all of the bad luck they've had. 188. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd like to see Jimmie blow Kenseth out of the water just in spite of the sport right now. I was just saying how great the race was, and anymore I'm just po'ed 189. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, the leave Gordon out when he should pit. And they take GOrdon in when he should stay out. It has been like it at least since Gulliver came or what ever was his name. 190. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder how much, or how less Burger King actually pays for that team... I believe the owner(s) of BK racing are franchise owners of Burger King like the owner of Front Row is with Yum Brands(Long John Silvers,Taco Bell). I saw the 83 car in the accident had Horizon as a sponsor which probably means they got actual sponsorship for the race. I think that when Burger King or Taco Bell is on the car, its coming out of the owners pocket. 191. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth stayed out after he was all over the place and couldn't hold a line at all? Is he trying to wreck it or what? 192. MStall41 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "For about 100 laps now this race will be illigitimate.. like every other fake yellow flag.. only this was worse.. Pure stupidity." LOL. Exaggeration much??? 193. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 190, that explains it. So it is like Furniture Row scheme. 194. Sean posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think this is Kenseth's Hail Mary attempt, like Johnson in 2005 at Homestead. 195. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Great confidence shown by Jason Ratcliff. Yeah, it's just about over. 196. Dense Drip posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gilliland in 6th? Wow. 197. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well this Sunday has turned into dog sh*t for me....Bears lose, JJ doing well while Kenseth is sinking, terrible calls by NASCAR for a caution. 198. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kenseth leaves this race something ~20pts behind Johnson, I wonder if Hendrick brings 20 cars to Homestead. You could have Ricky Craven in one car at least. 199. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's watch Jimmie go from 16th to 6th on this restart. 200. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For as highly regarded as he is, Chad Knaus makes some really dumb decisions. Lefts only, really? This could very well end a lot like Kentucky this year or Phoenix last year. 201. MStall41 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (4) (3) "Its over. It is so hard watching this sport die before my eyes." Let's see here. Race today is in front of a sold out crowd. TV Ratings have been up for 7 of the 8 Chase races. Yet the sport is dying before your eyes? Do you realize how overdramatic and silly you sound when you post this drivel every week? Chill the hell out, the sport is not even close to dying and today's race has been pretty damn compelling. Just relax man, geez. 202. Sean posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) People looking forward to next year's Daytona 500? I'm not really. I'm looking forward to IndyCar 2014 (yeah, the schedule kind of sucks, but even the street course racing is great with the DW12 except for Detroit) and the merged sports car series (I admit I rarely watched Grand-Am or ALMS except for parts of the 24 Hours of Daytona most years, but I intend to watch every USCR race now...) Not to mention that IndyCar and USCR have tons of likable drivers, which Cup is sorely lacking. Where is the James Hinchcliffe in NASCAR? The Josef Newgarden? The Jordan Taylor? Cup has nobody with that kind of fun personality... 203. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Let's see here. Race today is in front of a sold out crowd. TV Ratings have been up for 7 of the 8 Chase races. Yet the sport is dying before your eyes? Do you realize how overdramatic and silly you sound when you post this drivel every week? Chill the hell out, the sport is not even close to dying and today's race has been pretty damn compelling. Just relax man, geez." Best comment of the week. 204. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Piss off, Johnson! 205. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "People looking forward to next year's Daytona 500?" It's more that I'm looking forward to this overall miserable season being over than I actually am looking forward to the Daytona 500. 206. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kenseth leaves this race something ~20pts behind Johnson, I wonder if Hendrick brings 20 cars to Homestead. You could have Ricky Craven in one car at least. There's already 10 Hendrick engines in the field, at least. 207. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thats why I love this board, all the sentimentalism. It is touching really, people truly love and hate this sport. I do also. 208. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know why I think TV ratings might be up? The whole Clint Bowyer/Michael Waltrip mess at Richmond. I'm pretty sure that has at least something to do with it. There's no such thing as bad publicity. 209. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NASCAR is dying as a serious sport, but not as a WWE type of entertainment. I love the sport of auto-racing, but the state of this league is currently unacceptable to many serious motorsports fans. I think others who appreciate auto-racing as a whole share this sediment. 210. Sean posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Chill the hell out, the sport is not even close to dying and today's race has been pretty damn compelling." Popularity != quality IndyCar was much better than NASCAR or F1 this season despite those being the mroe popular series. This race has been better than most in the chase, but I think when long-time fans are saying that it's hard for recent races to hold their interest. Even if the on-track action is actually better (like it was in 2011 compared to most of the decade before that), it's less compelling in large part because there are no scrappy underdog teams and very few drivers worth caring about. I think it's more about the personalities than the on-track product, although the officiating does detract from the on-track product. 211. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Today's race is brought to you by Stride: Ridiculously Long Lasting Cautions. 212. MStall41 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You know why I think TV ratings might be up? The whole Clint Bowyer/Michael Waltrip mess at Richmond. I'm pretty sure that has at least something to do with it. There's no such thing as bad publicity." I think that's definitely a factor. A great title battle has certainly helped too. 213. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson and Edwards make big contact, and now people crash behind them. 214. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again Johnson has talent issues while driving in traffic. 215. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Second close call for JJ, the golden horseshoe has returned to it's rightful owner. 216. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, why couldnt Carl just finish him off and spin him out? 217. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone still want to try to say the drivers refuse to race Johnson hard? 218. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Kenseth is given a gift and relinquishes it in 25.6 seconds. 219. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow was that an amateur pit stop. 220. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Godawful pit stop for Matt Kenseth. 221. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Get the 11 crew out of the bullpen. 222. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anyone still want to try to say the drivers refuse to race Johnson hard?" I don't really recall anyone saying that on here. Maybe you're thinking of "Jimmie refuses to be raced hard"? Kenseth finally pits. 223. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Kenseths team is choking it away, i think Jimmie goes to the final race having to finish 15th to clinch 224. Sean posted: 11.10.2013 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe Harvick and Busch can get back into this... 225. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kenseth team in self-distruct mode.. lol. I'm very passionate about NASCAR. Grew-up with it. Love it. Look forward to the couple of races I can attend every year, but when I see problems in it I get passionate. This isn't saying that the racing is worse, because it most certainly is not. It's been great this year, and this race, but the way I feel about intentionally poor officiating is irreversable. 226. Mr X posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man that 20 team looks lost today, regardless of what just happened to Johnson, I don't understand why Jeff Gordon pitted though, seems risky to me. 227. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would honestly almost rather have Gordon win these final two races and somehow steal the championship than see the 48 or 20 win it. I don't want to see the 48 team win for obvious reasons, and the 20 team has been far from championship material in these past couple races. 228. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't even know where the f**k anyone's running anymore! What a terrible pit stop by Kenseth's crew when they could've capitalized on Jimmie's slide... 229. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't really recall anyone saying that on here. Maybe you're thinking of "Jimmie refuses to be raced hard"? Kenseth finally pits." I'm not going to go searching through all the comment sections but I've seen several comments along the lines of "they're just letting him pass, they won't race him" or "Johnson wouldn't succeed in the old days because the drivers back then knew how to race hard". 230. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would honestly almost rather have Gordon win these final two races and somehow steal the championship than see the 48 or 20 win it. I don't want to see the 48 team win for obvious reasons, and the 20 team has been far from championship material in these past couple races. Realistically, Harvick is the only one that can get in the mix if Dos Jotas and Kenseth have bad finishes. If those two finish in the 20's(probably won't happen) and Harvick gets a top 5, Harvick should be around 15 pts out. 231. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) I'm telling you, Jimmie Johnson cannot RACE. He is an excellent WHEEL HOLDER. Put him in traffic and he can't do squat until they spread out enough. I wish we had a time machine and could put JJ in good equipment from '85-'94 and watch him get eaten alive. Of course it doesn't matter cause JGR just continues to show how pitiful they are under pressure. Thatis the worst Cup pit stop I have ever seen in my life. That would have been a slow 4 tire change in the 1980s. 232. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Realistically, Harvick is the only one that can get in the mix if Dos Jotas and Kenseth have bad finishes. If those two finish in the 20's(probably won't happen) and Harvick gets a top 5, Harvick should be around 15 pts out." Yeah, I underestimated just how far back Gordon really is after last week. 233. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (5) (1) I swear, if I have to hear one more Gretchen Wilson country rock cover of a classic rock song when they go to commercial, I am going to stab my ear drums. 234. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The more I look at this, this has been an epic display of "Shoot Yourself In The Foot" by the 20 team. Unbelievable. They had the break they finally needed with Jimmie getting caught up with Edwards, and they totally blow it on pit road. 235. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love how "getting run into" apparently means the same thing as "cannot RACE". 236. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Nice to see Ratcliff just laughing it up with his crew guys after that pit stop. Way to have a championship desire, assclown. 237. Mr X posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really do think at this point, barring when the cautions happen, Harvick has this race is the bag. 238. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Jeff Gordon isn't rolling over for Jimmie every time they're racing each other, like Kahne does... 239. Sean posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Of course it doesn't matter cause JGR just continues to show how pitiful they are under pressure." In the long run, was it really all Kyle Busch or Denny Hamlin's fault then? They've certainly both been screwed by their own botched pit strategy before (Hamlin in 2010 at Phoenix, Busch in 2012 at Richmond...) People go on and on about Kyle, Denny, Kevin, and Carl CHOKING... Maybe it has more to do with their teams. 240. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Gilliland is STILL running 7th. Great run for him and Front Row Motorsports so far! 241. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) More TV time for Burger King. 242. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HUGE crash for David Reutimann. 243. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yup, I'm finally cooling down after the stupid caution flag... Took about 100 laps... HARD crash for David Reutiman. 244. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TV Time with Burger King Racing. 245. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, that car is crushed all the way up to the back windshield. That had to be one hell of a hit. 246. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see him put the window net down. 247. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Excuse me, Burger King isn't on the car this week, but good of them to get their sponsor Horizon some TV time 248. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad David seems to be okay though. That's a big hit. 249. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Reutimann previewing the 2014 Volkswagen. Good to see him get out of the car. 250. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing is...if Johnson and the 48 team were in the position that Kenseth and the 20 team were in, they would rally back and get at the minimum a salvageable finish. Maybe Kenseth will, but so far... Looked like roof damage to the 83. I wonder if he flipped, but I could be imagining things. 251. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Burger King Racing shows that their cars are actually AMC Gremlings. Fortunately not Ford Pintos. 252. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The thing is...if Johnson and the 48 team were in the position that Kenseth and the 20 team were in, they would rally back and get at the minimum a salvageable finish. Maybe Kenseth will, but so far..." They've similarly been down at least a couple times already in the Chase and came back for good finish. I'd bet on them getting a top 10 at minimum. 253. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) AMC Gremlins might actually run better than BK's current cars. 254. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice to see ESPN interviewing driver/pitchman David Reutimann. 255. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Reutimann is actually getting interviewed. That's not something you'll see that often. Brake failure caused that accident. That's what I was thinking-the damage suggested that car just flew into the outside wall at top speed. 256. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Any time Elliott Sadler is in a four wide situation it usually won't end well. 257. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yup, I'm finally cooling down after the stupid caution flag... Took about 100 laps... HARD crash for David Reutiman." I think you're entitled to feel however you want, but if the refs make a bad call in a football game that changes the course of the game (which happens probably a dozen times at least every week between college and the NFL), do you spend 2 quarters getting over it? Or what if a ref calls a third strike when it should have been a ball in a baseball game? As far as we know the baseball player could have hit a homer on the next pitch. Sometimes bad calls happen. I don't agree with fake debris cautions, but I actually think it's pretty cool for there to be a human element. You don't have to think that way, but it's food for thought. 258. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the 20 went back to their BK setup on that last pit stop. 259. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kenseth's going to come back for a top 10 finish, they need to fix that car FAST. His car is just absolute junk right now. 260. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic by the 20 team. How can they miss it by this much when they need points!? 261. The Long Shot posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) From a guy that was bitching about the anticlimactic Talladega finish just a few weeks ago, I'm honestly surprised that people are complaining about this race. The racing has been good, and the fact that there are multiple different pit strategies is making the finish all the more interesting. And also, my agreements with MStall come once in a blue moon, but his post #201 was absolutely spot on. 262. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They've similarly been down at least a couple times already in the Chase and came back for good finish. I'd bet on them getting a top 10 at minimum." They've come from behind with a good car, but I can't recall them coming from behind with a terrible and, apparently, unfixable car. This is the worse the 20 has been all year. He got passed by Casey Mears as I typed this. 263. Sean posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) When you have the Kyle Busch of crew chiefs who essentially says "I don't really know what to do, so screw it", it seems like it would be rather easy to miss the setup. Kyle Busch and Jason Ratcliff need to be reunited. Those two deserve each other. (And I don't even hate Kyle, but it's still true.) 264. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't watch football, but when there's a bad call in other sports (baseball for example which I watch often) it's not intentional. This one was, or would have a very good reason to be. That's the difference to me. 265. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gilliland and Mears just blew by Kenseth. 266. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At the rate he's running Kenseth is going to be lucky to finish in the top TWENTY. 267. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "From a guy that was bitching about the anticlimactic Talladega finish just a few weeks ago, I'm honestly surprised that people are complaining about this race. The racing has been good, and the fact that there are multiple different pit strategies is making the finish all the more interesting." No one's complaining about the race (other than that pathetic caution for Nemechek earlier). We're complaining because the 20 team is absolutely choking away this championship. 268. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Obligatory shot of Danica as she gets lapped. 269. jabber1990 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty, when/if a Cup driver is doing as good as Jimmie is in the cup series while "Kyle Busching" the nationwide series you'll be all "running the nationwide series is why he's doing so well! 270. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am curious to see which pit strategy ends up being the one you want to be on. For some reason, I feel like Earnhardt's going to be a factor towards the end. 271. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The racing itself is definitely not awful. This Gen-6 race car can put on good racing at the smaller tracks. But the race is just disappointing because we're seeing Johnson with one of the top cars and Kenseth with one of the absolute worst cars on the track. I don't think I've seen that car run THIS poorly all year long. We're basically seeing Johnson wrap up the title a race early. That's what's disappointing us about this race. 272. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If cars with Hendrick engines are supposed to be pulling interference for Johnson, Allgaier didn't get the memo. That's really not a position a lapped guy should put himself in, but Allgaier as a rookie can be forgiven. 273. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But Long Shot has a good point. This has actually been a very compelling race. It's just a shame that this championship "battle" is overshadowing everything else. But I guess that's what happens late in the season. It's the same reason why Homestead doesn't get enough credit for being a pretty nice race track. 274. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Logano into the pits, Dos Jotas to 2nd, time for Matador #5 to "lose grip" 275. jabber1990 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was thinking about saying "I think that Radcliffe is what cost Matt this championship" but I think we're in agreement (for once, and especially something I say) 276. Sean posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else think they should do a crew chief swap at JGR next year? Grubb to the #20, Ratcliff to the #18, Rogers to the #11? I wonder if all those teams would do better in the title chase with such a swap... Grubb is certainly being wasted on Hamlin this year. I know Roush and Childress's history indicate that those sort of swaps don't work often, but try anything at this point, right? 277. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Honestly, if Kenseth and the 20 don't get it turned around in 81 laps, they don't deserve the title. 278. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth's not all that far from getting lapped. 279. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kenseths only shot is for Johnson to wreck, and that Golden Horseshoe wont let it happen. 280. Mr X posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Given at 13.1 second stop Logano I think that mistake on the right rear will prove costly, if it weren't for that they could've taken four given how long they waited for fuel. Harvick is inching his way forward pretty quickly. 281. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anyone else think they should do a crew chief swap at JGR next year?" Before this year I thought it would have been a good idea to do a swap with the 18 and 20. Ratcliff back with Kyle on the 18, Rogers on the 20 with Kenseth. I thought it would work for both sides since Kyle and Ratcliff have had success before, and Rogers seems like he would be a good fit for Kenseth since they are both pretty even keeled. But then Ratcliff and Kenseth won all these races and showed that they can have success together, so that changed my mind a little bit. But now with the way this championship is turning out, your proposal wouldn't be a completely bad idea. 282. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm honestly laughing now at the comically horrible race the 20 has run. I guess it is a defense mechanism. At least he won't tease us by coming close and coming heartbreakinly close. Maybe it is because I am still scarred from Super Bowl 38 even though it will be 10 years this January. So close, so close, so close, so much hope, so much hope, boom its over your team loses, the other ream wins, better luck next year. Now I can go ahead and make alternate plans for next weekend. 283. jabber1990 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle and Jason have a history, Jason has proven this year he knows how to build a Sprint Cup car, assuming there is a crew-chief change does that mean that Kyle will be untouchable in 2014 (assuming Kyle doesn't act like Kyle and pulls a Kyle) 284. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know people joked about it earlier, but we may legitimately go into Homestead with Harvick being the challenger. 285. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick's actually 2nd in points as they run. It probably won't end that way, but that was surprising to see. 286. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And on lap 260 at Phoenix, the championship was done. 287. jabber1990 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ...and with that, the championship is over and decided but then again, it was kind of established 9 months ago 288. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would seriously rather have Harvick win than Jimmie or Kenseth at this point. Again, I don't want Jimmie to win for obvious reasons, and after that stupid laughing exchange that Ratcliff had with his crew guys after that awful pit stop, I don't want to see them win it either (even though I like Matt). So, the hell with it. Go Harvick. 289. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Isn't it going to be really close on fuel for people like Kahne, Johnson, and Edwards? I think pit window is 70-75 laps and Johnson pitted with 69 to go. 290. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick just ran out of gas. Well, there goes that pipe dream. Damn it. 291. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 7-8 more laps? That is a TERRIBLE miscalculation, apparently choking isn't limited to just the top two. 292. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) At least his car re-fired. 293. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 29 got lucky. They could have lost a ton more time than they actually did. 294. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Newman's out of gas as well, it looks like. 295. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And he's got significantly faster tires, so he probably will still come back and pass Johnson and Kahne at least. But still, you can't be 7-8 miles off with your calculations at this level. They must have not got it full on the last stop or something. 296. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I have no idea who's going to win this race. That's a nice feeling for a change. It's just too bad that this championship battle has turned into a Three Stooges episode. 297. TS1420 posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I see I haven't missed much. Figured Kenseth & JGR would choke big time in this race. 298. Anonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Malocchia tu, 48! 299. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for duct tape. Unbelieveable. 300. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) NESPN is implying that Danica left a scrunchie between turns 3 and 4. 301. The Sound posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Resuscitate the Chase caution? 302. Mr X posted: 11.10.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Regardless of who benefits from this caution, there's a title on the line it better be real. 303. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NESPN is implying that Danica left a scrunchie between turns 3 and 4." LOL, I was just gonna type that. It seriously looked like a hair scrunchie. 304. MStall41 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whatever that was looked too big to be duct tape. Looked like a hose or something. 305. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The caution timing is not good for Kenseth at all. There are still 20+1 cars on the lead lap and only 3 passes Kenseth could possibly make if it stays green to the finish. 306. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Championship is already decided, which is sad, the 20 team decided to show up with the worst car of the year with 2 races to go but thats Gibbs for ya get ours hopes up then choke it away. hes running Danica-esque right now 307. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How many laps to go, who's leading, and where is Johnson/Kenseth? Not able to keep track of the race very well at the moment. Sorry to inconvenience you guys. 308. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) about 25 to go, Dos jotas 3rd, Kenseth 25th and a lap down. 309. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Disappointed Johnson has this title all but wrapped up barring any disasters in the last 25 laps here or at Homestead. Oh well. This has at least been a good race. I'm with a lot of you guys. I hope 2014 is going to be a better season. 310. David posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^27, Carl Edwards, 3rd/29th. 311. John Royal posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) Johnson wins his 7th championship in 2014 and ties Earnhardt and Petty!!! 312. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie is lucky that was Jeff Gordon behind him and not Brad Keselowski or someone like that. He totally just cut across the 24's nose. 313. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) At this point, I just want Jimmie to leave Phoenix with as big a points lead as possible, so that Homestead weekend is as anti-climactic as possible for NASCAR. 314. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks guys. 315. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) At this point, I just want Jimmie to leave Phoenix with as big a points lead as possible, so that Homestead weekend is as anti-climactic as possible for NASCAR. You mean you aren't pumped up for the battle on Saturday for the All-Encompassing and Most Precious NASCAR Nationwide Series Car Owner Championship? 316. Anonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Really? Nobody here is competent enough to go to NASCAR.com? 317. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Edwards has to save fuel, so it looks like Harvick is gonna win this race. 318. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon is just dropping like a rock in these final laps. 319. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He could be on a mobile phone or computer with a slow internet connection and NASCAR.com takes forever to load... 320. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Carl could had definitely stayed an extra 2 seconds and gotten more fuel. 321. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have found that NASCAR.com's leaderboard is terribly innacurate. I've seen it list people running a lap down as the leaders. 322. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The #20 team did everything to throw this championship away today. 323. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl runs out, Harvick wins. 324. Paul posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Vulture strikes again! 325. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And there we have it. The 20 team has choked this title away. 326. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Championship #6 for Jimmie is now all but wrapped up. Kind of had a feeling Edwards was going to run out when they said he was a lap and a half short on gas. Should have gotten more fuel when he pitted. 327. Peter posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth will have a lot of work to do next week 328. Anonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 23rd or better for Jimmie to win the cup 329. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'd rather see Johnson win the championship than Kenseth, but no possible remaining championship scenario is a good one... either Johnson wins by cruising, or Johnson loses due to problems. It's hard to ask for a battle like 2011 every season, but I at least hoped we could see multiple drivers with credible a shot in the finale. 330. Kenny posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where did jr finish? 331. epzik8 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Jimmie Johnson has all but wrapped up his sixth title, which doesn't make me very happy. But I agree with joey2448 about hoping there won't be too much drama at Homestead next week. 332. Jim Davis posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "23rd or better for Jimmie to win the cup" Brought it home in 36th last year. 333. BON GORDON posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm so disappointed with every part of how this race finished. How the f**k does Gordon drop from 5th to 15th! Ridiculous! Congrats to Jimmie Johnson on winning his 6th championship. 334. Anonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) I'm a big JJ fan, but come on man your act is getting stale 335. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sure, there's still the possibility that Jimmie and Chad will blow it and Kenseth will regain his early season 1.5 miler mojo. But that's what I thought at Texas too, and look what happened there. I don't really care. It doesn't matter. I'm just happy that this endless season will finally end next week. I'm hopeful that next year will be much better with the changes to the cars that Nascar is talking about and a lot of new driver/team combos. But overall, man I'm glad this season is finally gonna be over soon. 336. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the 20 did everything in their power to destroy their chances today and they did, maybe ill go fishing next weekend? anything will be better than hearing them ramble on about how great Johnson is for every one of 267 laps next weekend then having a 2 hour love-fest post race, come to think of it i may just go to Volunteer, Tazewell, or Smoky mountain if their racing on Sunday, This whole season has been terrible, cup and nationwide both, the trucks have been great this year, but they are gonna screw that up next year to. But whether if we like it or not im 100% sure every single one of us will come back to our tv's to watch speedweeks in February. 337. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The 20 wasn't having the best day." That's putting it lightly. 338. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So whattya guys think? Ya think the 48 can muster a 23rd-place finish next Sunday? 339. Jim Davis posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He didn't last year. 340. Paul posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) By winning his 4th Cup race of the season, Kevin Harvick has now won more Cup races in a season for a "lame duck" driver since Bobby Allison won five races in his final (and only) season driving for Harry Ranier back in 1981. 341. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Brought it home in 36th last year." And 32nd the year before. 342. The Sound posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 10 championships are a real possibility for the 48. Sadly. 343. MStall41 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) Johnson flat out deserves this title. Best driver/team in the sport right now, bar none. 344. Anonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) If they used the old points system, Johnson would've won the championship today. No offense to him but he is a 3 time champion not going on 6. The reason he is going on 6 is because of the chase. Nascar needs to go back to going all season to determine the champion. 345. Sector posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Okay, next week, let's get here now so we can conclude who the champion is. I want to watch the new SHR Powerhouse of Tony Stewart, Kevin Harvick, Kurt Busch & of course, Danica Patrick. I'd love to see back to back champions from Harvick/Busch the next few years by smokin' Jimmie Johnson. 346. Mr X posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is also Kevin's 100th top 5 finish. 347. Cornys posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, that is that for the championship :/ JJ goes for his 7th next year more than likely :| 348. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "If they used the old points system, Johnson would've won the championship today. No offense to him but he is a 3 time champion not going on 6. The reason he is going on 6 is because of the chase. Nascar needs to go back to going all season to determine the champion." As far as we know, Johnson could be an 8 time champion without The Chase. As much as I wish it was the case that The Chase didn't change the way the drivers raced, the fact of the matter is that it did. Once they get to the point where they are more or less guaranteed a spot in The Chase they either try things they wouldn't normally try and end up losing a lot of points or they just take it easy. It suck but that's the way it is. 349. Sector posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @344, it won't matter, if they were to get rid of the chase starting next year, Jimmie Johnson would still be 6 time champion. You cannot erase the past. 350. Kenny posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (6) Fires my grandmother died then Jemmie pretty much gets the title god no wonder I've been felli g sick to my stomic 351. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, I was hoping my trip to Homestead next Sunday was going to culminate in seeing the 20 win the title. Even though it's still conceivable, it's most likely not realistic. There are two good things about being there next Sunday, though: one, not having to listen to BSPN's booth bozos performing a three and a half hour on-air fellating of the driver and crew chief of the 48 team; two: the 20 year old blonde coed from UCF who will be accompanying me on the trip. She'll be able to distract me from what is going on as far as the race goes. 352. TS1420 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) At least Harvick won. Can't wait for this horrid season to finally be over. Of course next year we will be beaten over the head non-stop with "The Almighty GOAT Jimmie Johnson's Magical Quest for a Historic 7th Championship" all next season.... Kenseth smiling and proud of his team? He is such a dipwad. 353. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Marty Smith is writhing on the ground having a 48-gasm right now. "It's hard to ask for a battle like 2011 every season, but I at least hoped we could see multiple drivers with credible a shot in the finale." When WAS the last time there were more than two drivers in contention for the title at Homestead? Was 2006 the last time? If that is true, then the Chase has failed us. 354. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) what does GOAT mean 355. Paul posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Even without the Chase, Jimmie Johnson probably would still be going for his 6th championship. The difference though is that he would have won the title in 2004 instead of 2007. Just my opinion, but I don't see him gaining 410 points on Jeff Gordon with 10 races to go in 2007 without a points reset. And if someone wants to call bias on my part for that, let me also state that Kurt Busch is my second favorite active driver, and even I think that Johnson should have won the title in 2004. 356. murb posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "When WAS the last time there were more than two drivers in contention for the title at Homestead?" 2010. Harvick still had a mostly realistic shot at it along with Hamlin and Johnson. 357. Anonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Goat: Greatest of All Time 358. Eric posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin is now tied with Kurt Busch with 24 career cup wins. Kevin is 1 career cup win away from tying Jim Paschal and Joe Weatherly in career wins. 359. Paul posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "When WAS the last time there were more than two drivers in contention for the title at Homestead?" This isn't exactly what you were asking, but I remember back in 2003 when there were 11 drivers in contention for the three national NASCAR series titles with one race to go. And of those 11 drivers, 10 of them were in either the Busch or Truck Series, since Matt Kenseth had already clinched the Cup title before Homestead. 360. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Even without the Chase, Jimmie Johnson probably would still be going for his 6th championship. The difference though is that he would have won the title in 2004 instead of 2007. Just my opinion, but I don't see him gaining 410 points on Jeff Gordon with 10 races to go in 2007 without a points reset." I'll one up you...without The Chase Johnson wins 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013. That probably wouldn't have happened, but you never know. That's why all these "without The Chase" scenarios may be fun to calculate just to see, but there shouldn't be much stock put in them. If the drivers had reacted to The Chase with a "it doesn't matter because we still want to get the best finish in each race" mentality (like they should have), then they would hold some stock. Unfortunately, the drivers didn't have that reaction. They decided they would play games to see what would and wouldn't work in the Chase. It got even worse in 2007 when wins mattered towards seeding The Chase. I remember in 2007, after Gordon had locked up the spot in The Chase, he said "I don't care if we drop to 5th at this point, we're just going to try some things and see if we can get more wins." 2011 also brought another chapter to the mentality with the introduction of the wildcard system. To be fair, I don't hate The Chase. I don't think it was the best idea either. It was certainly poorly implemented and the driver's adaptation to it was certainly unfortunate. 361. Anonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Richard Petty are the greatest Nascar drivers of all time. Johnson is in the top 10 maybe top 5 but he isn't the greatest ever. 362. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "2010. Harvick still had a mostly realistic shot at it along with Hamlin and Johnson." Everyone always seems to forget this, but Hamlin actually LED points going into Homestead. The Chase has worked (as far as producing a championship battle in 2004, 2010, and 2011, but in the other years it's produced no better of a championship battle (and sometimes worse) than it would have been without the Chase. 363. GDR29 posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) VULTURE 364. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK, sorry murb, I misread your comment in context, didn't realize you were saying Harvick was the 3rd contender in addition to the other two. 365. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (6) (6) Also, while I'm thinking about it... Happy 238th birthday to the United States Marine Corps! 366. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) At least we have circuit of the americas next week although Vettel will probably make it 8 in a row. I will post a blog assessing Johnson's career prospects probably later this week.Johnson has about 4 years at his peak left, he is looking good to at least tie Earnhardt and Petty. Also just because Johnson wins 8 or 9 championships should not mean he is the greatest, you have to look at career in totality and dig beneath the numbers to accurately judge someone's achievements. Kuwicki's (sorry if I spelt it wrong) championship in his own team is worth 5 championships at least in the premier ride in the sport for comparison 367. The Long Shot posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Johnson flat out deserves this title. Best driver/team in the sport right now, bar none." Agreed. He's not the most talented driver in the sport by any means, but that combination is by far and wide the best in the sport. 368. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Well, we can hope Harvick pulls the ultimate vulture next week and steals the title on both Johnson and Kenseth's faltering. "You cannot erase the past." I don't know...the NCAA might disagree. Sure, the games/titles still happened, but how many times have they struck wins and post-season appearances due to sanctions? 369. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (3) (3) Now why on God's green Earth would anyone thumb down a simple comment wishing the Marine Corps a happy birthday? 370. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, while I'm thinking about it... Happy 238th birthday to the United States Marine Corps!" I don't normally care about the thumbs but what possible reason would anyone on a site whose user base is comprised almost entirely of Americans and citizens of our allies have to thumbs this one down? 371. Paul posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "without The Chase Johnson wins 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013." Darn, I forgot about 2012. In that case, Johnson would be going for a record-tying seventh Cup championship this season. I'm not so sure about 2011 because he only won twice and wasn't as consistent as Carl Edwards was (especially in the Chase, when the #48 team is usually at its best), but I can understand the argument since his average finish in 2011 was slightly better than it was in 2010 when he won what I think was his most impressive championship victory (The #48 didn't have the speed of the #11 or #29 teams, but he simply wanted it more than Hamlin or Harvick did.). 372. GDR29 posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) Kevin won the "season championship" by 285 points in 2010. If you think Johnson was winning that year sans Chase, you're delusional. 373. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "I don't normally care about the thumbs but what possible reason would anyone on a site whose user base is comprised almost entirely of Americans and citizens of our allies have to thumbs this one down?" Even if they don't agree with the mission, can't they at least be thankful that they're are people brave enough to join if for no other reason than the fact that it keeps the draft from coming back? I'm hoping to get accepted in Marine Corps OCS after I graduate. And if you're not American, just let us have our moment of gratitude. 374. The Long Shot posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I don't normally care about the thumbs but what possible reason would anyone on a site whose user base is comprised almost entirely of Americans and citizens of our allies have to thumbs this one down?" Because they're trolls looking for any reason to get people riled up. 375. Mr X posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The chase doesn't guarantee anything, if one team really gets on a role, ten races is easily enough time to do some serious damage, you can go back through the history of this sport and find many ten race periods where one driver simply blew away the field. Even with the Chase Jimmie would've locked up the title a week early in 2009 were it not for what happened in Texas. Dale Earnhardt had a 219 point lead over Bill Elliott after the first ten races in 1987. Jeff Gordon put two amazing 10 race stretches back to back in 1998, I could go on and on and on. Were it not for the Chase I don't know that Jimmie would be a five time champ, and the favourite to be a six time champ at this time next week, but he would certainly have his share. 2013 would certainly be his after all 36 races, 2012 I believe is difficult between him and Keselowski, 2011 would've gone to Edwards I think, he was just too consistent for Johnson to match, 2010 would've gone to Harvick for the same reason, 2009 was easily Johnson's, 2008 is honestly too close to call for me between Edwards and Johnson, 2007 was easily Gordon's, 2006 was Johnson without a doubt, 2005 was easily Stewart, and 2004 likely would go to Johnson as well although I do believe that Gordon would've made it interesting. All in all 2013, 2009, and 2006 were definitely Johnson's with 2012, 2008 and 2004 strong possibilities. Johnson has at least 3 titles without the Chase, and possibly 6. 376. BluesTravelerFan posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Depressed like most about today, but that's how life goes. I won't make the kneejerk statement that is often made that "I will quit watching", but my interest is definitely on the wane, especially after today. It's too bad the Truck title is already basically wrapped up, and the only real battle for the title is the Nationwide series with Austin probably getting the winless title. 377. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something that may have been overlooked, MWR confirmed that they WILL run a third car next year on a part time basis. 378. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Johnson vs. Kenseth storyline has faded after today, sadly, but... The AdvoCare 500 storyline is very much alive. This was a pretty good race. 379. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Richard Petty are the greatest Nascar drivers of all time. Johnson is in the top 10 maybe top 5 but he isn't the greatest ever." - Marty Smith and other NASCAR Media types who are of his yoke, strongly disagree and we are in for the revisionist lovefest culminating next Sunday at Homestead and continuing through 2014. What gets me is the legacy Earnhardt and Petty left for the sport...the potential for growth. Both the King and Big E's title reigns coincided with the growing popularity of NASCAR. Johnson's Era has coincided with a downturn in viewership, interest, track attendance, the national economy tanking, etc. So, the big question is Nascar in a better position for substantial growth in the Johnson era? 380. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was only about 1 year old at the time, but, if what everyone says is true, 1993 and the lead up to 1994 probably didn't feel the way 2013 and the lead up to 2014 does. 381. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No offense Zackary Shawn, but Auburn will be better positioned by losing to Alabama especially if South Carolina loses to Florida, but beats Clemson and Missouri loses the SEC Championship game to Bama. Auburn will be in position for a Sugar Bowl bid. 382. 18fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) I enjoyed watching this race, especially with the all the different strategies that were used. Also, if Kyle ran as bad as Kenseth ran today all anybody would be saying is that Kyle choked again. But when Kenseth runs awfully today it is the team that choked. 383. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I actually agree. The race itself, as a whole, was a pretty good one. Definitely a fairly competitive one judging how no one driver was able to truly dominate this race. Even though Johnson's pretty much guaranteed the title, I think as a whole this season has been better than the previous one. The Gen 6 car puts on good racing on smaller tracks; but they have a LOT of work to do on the cookie-cutters. Even so, I'm still hoping 2014 will be better because this year, even though it's been better, hasn't been all that great in my opinion. Also, anyone who would thumbs down a comment wishing a happy birthday to the Marines is a classless individual. Regardless of your opinions on war (I wish we could live in a world where we DIDN'T have to have war), the military (and especially those who serve or have served) deserves respect. I come from a Navy family myself; both my parents served and actually met while they were serving in the Navy. If not for the military, I probably wouldn't even EXIST. I just find it disgusting that some people have no respect at all. 384. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No offense Zackary Shawn, but Auburn will be better positioned by losing to Alabama especially if South Carolina loses to Florida, but beats Clemson and Missouri loses the SEC Championship game to Bama. Auburn will be in position for a Sugar Bowl bid." I think they'll get an at-large bid to one of the BCS Bowls. Besides, I can tell you without a doubt that we would rather miss out on going to a BCS Bowl while beating Alabama, than going to a BCS Bowl with a loss to Alabama. Really to Alabama/Auburn, the Iron Bowl is all that matters. All the other stuff is whipped cream. 385. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Panthers 6-3! I am completely stunned by this. Pleasantly stunned, but stunned. I predicted a 3-13 season from them. I have no idea where their defensive strength came from. That has been a problem for them for a while. If they make the playoffs, I will shit a brick. (btw, no more comments on NASCAR racing from me this year, I just don't care, trying to arrange an all day mountain trip Sunday, I'll show up on this page and the Homestead page only to discuss anything but NASCAR) 386. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Panthers 6-3! I am completely stunned by this. Pleasantly stunned, but stunned. I predicted a 3-13 season from them. I have no idea where their defensive strength came from. That has been a problem for them for a while. If they make the playoffs, I will shit a brick." Not to mention that Cam isn't anywhere near as bad as you make him sound, DSFF. Of course, I'm 1150% biased in that opinion. He's like a god where I live. 387. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whelp, at least the Iron Bowl will be significant again. Bama has such an advantage in the BCS that it is possible they can lose to Mizzou or South Carolina in the SEC Championship Game and still play in the BCS Title game. Auburn could pull a huge upset and that should be enough to put themselves into the SEC Championship game. 388. TS1420 posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "What gets me is the legacy Earnhardt and Petty left for the sport...the potential for growth. Both the King and Big E's title reigns coincided with the growing popularity of NASCAR. Johnson's Era has coincided with a downturn in viewership, interest, track attendance, the national economy tanking, etc. So, the big question is Nascar in a better position for substantial growth in the Johnson era?" Petty & Earnhardt helped grow & nurture the sport during their dynasties and left the sport in better shape than when they entered it. Johnson's dynasty has only helped drive away fans from the sport and will leave the sport in worse shape than when he entered it. Even the prototype & mentor for Johnson, Jeff Gordon, did a better job bringing fans in to the sport (though a lot were the short-term fair weather fickle bandwagon fans that jump from trendy sport to trendy sport) Johnson can't even bring them back in with his "Historic Quest for 8". 389. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.10.2013 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Panthers are 6-3, meanwhile the woefully inconsistent Cincinnati Bengals are 6-4 even with the miraculous TD at the end of regulation at force overtime with Baltimore. At this rate, Baltimore will win the AFC North and the recent media darlings, the Miami Dolphins will get a wildcard. 390. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) What would Earnhardt have to say about Johnson if he was still living? I personally think there would be nothing, but respect from the 7 time champion to the soon to be 6 time champion. Better yet, what does Richard Petty think about Johnson? Does he spend his time think about how unfair it is that a "lesser" driver may very well beat his 8 championships? I bet he doesn't. I don't know and I won't take a position one way or the other, but it's something to think about. 391. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "2010. Harvick still had a mostly realistic shot at it along with Hamlin and Johnson." Oh yeah I forgot. It's just that I had already written Harvick off at Homestead that year. In my mind, he realistically had not shot, especially considering his antics with Denny at Dover that year. "This isn't exactly what you were asking, but I remember back in 2003 when there were 11 drivers in contention for the three national NASCAR series titles with one race to go. And of those 11 drivers, 10 of them were in either the Busch or Truck Series, since Matt Kenseth had already clinched the Cup title before Homestead." I remember that fondly. The Busch series championship battle that year was one of the best I've ever seen. So much movement in the top-five in points. I know some will say it was one of those years that no one wanted to win it, but it was entertaining as hell! And the Truck championship battle was great too, even though I hate what happened to Brendan Gaughan... 392. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't know and I won't take a position one way or the other, but it's something to think about." That didn't make sense considering I very much did take a position so let me rephrase... I don't really know and I understand and respect that I may be totally wrong and that other people have different views, but it's something to think about. 393. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I may be ex-Navy, but I'll give a thumbs up to the Corps' birthday. Squids and jarheads rag on each other a lot, but in the end we have the utmost respect for each other. For the most part. One of the mechanical engineers at work is a former Marine, and I always make sure I tell him that Don't Ask Don't Tell was written with the Corps in mind... 394. Schroeder51 posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'll never forget how upset Brendan Gaughan was after losing that '03 Truck title because Marty Houston (in one of the extra Jim Smith trucks) crashed him out of that race. "Jimmy Smith can KISS MY ASS!" 395. TS1420 posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) You know what is sickening thought? All the Earnhardt/Petty 7 Time Champs memorabilia that will be updated to include Johnson when he wins his 7th next year or the year after. I can just see a painting or collage of the three of them now: The Cool Grinning Cowboy Hat Wearing King, The Gruff & Tough Shaded Steely Gaze Faced Man in Black and then you got.... The Frail Ironic Hobo Chic Hipster Dweeb Looking Down His Nose At Everybody. 396. Daniel posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) They maybe are in the air force who are not groundpounders. Now why on God's green Earth would anyone thumb down a simple comment wishing the Marine Corps a happy birthday?Because they're trolls looking for any reason to get people riled up. 397. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few thoughts about the race today. First, what a terrible mistake by Jimmy Fennig, not keeping Carl Edwards in for a couple extra seconds to make sure he had enough fuel to finish. A crew chief of that much experience should know better. Also, I can't figure out why they were doing two-tire pit stops under green when they knew that if they stayed in a few extra seconds, they could have changed four tires and be sure of having enough fuel to finish. That's one thing Kenny Francis did on Kahne's final pit stop. They only did two tires, but they held him in the pits to make sure he had enough fuel to finish, and he wound up second as a result, instead of 21st, where Edwards wound up. Why they were doing timed stops like they do in IndyCar racing when they needed nearly a full tank of fuel, I don't know. Get the fuel in the car, because without that, it doesn't matter how quick the stop is. Also, while the championship seems wrapped up (I'm not calling it that yet, since Jimmie Johnson still needs to finish mid-field at Homestead, and he finished far worse than that last year due to transmission problems), what Matt Kenseth's poor performance today did was to open up second place for Kevin Harvick, and even Kyle Busch and Dale, Jr. mathematically. If Jimmie finishes on the lead lap, the question is will Kenseth even hold onto second place in the standings, because Kevin Harvick could steal that spot very easily, as he closed to within just six points of Kenseth today. If Johnson and his team have a mistake-free race at Homestead, they have title #6, but if something happens (and it almost did today twice), there's still an outside chance for Kenseth to steal the title, though I doubt Harvick can gain 35 points on Johnson, even if Johnson has a DNF at Homestead, and he would have to gain 35 points on Johnson due to tie-breakers. 398. joey2448 posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Jimmie were to travel back in time and race against the drivers of yesteryear (Earnhardt, Petty, Waltrip, Irvin, Allison, Yarborough etc..) they would probably mistake Johnson for an F1 driver. He's just so prim and proper, and clean and delicate, not to mention well-spoken in the media. 399. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Kenseth didn't gain anything today, but the Auburn Tigers gained two spots to move up to 7th in the BCS Standings. 400. Bronco posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Excellent comeback for Dale Jr and that #88 team. They were running 5th when they pitted for that loose wheel, then they fought back throughout the race and finished 4th to hang on to 5th in points. If they finish out the season 5th in points, I believe it would be the best ever eventual Chase finish for a team that was last in points after Chase race #1. Dale Jr's 21st top 10 equals his career high set in 2003-2004, and this is his 2nd consecutive season with 20 or more top 10s. JPM picks up what may be the last top 10 of his NASCAR career, as he likely won't do anything at Homestead which is his worst track. This will also be Jeff Gordon's 4th season with only single digit top 5s, his first since 2005. 401. NazRacePhan posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) They engraved jimmies name in the trophy after the Daytona 500. What a fun season! 402. NascarFan1 posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Without the Chase Johnson would be going for his third championship. 403. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.10.2013 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Without the Chase Johnson would be going for his third championship." You need to go back and review previous conversations. Start around comment 344. 404. NascarFan1 posted: 11.10.2013 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Cup Champions Without the Chase: 2013: TBD 2012: Brad Keselowski* 2011: Carl Edwards 2010: Kevin Harvick 2009: Jimmie Johnson* 2008: Carl Edwards 2007: Jeff Gordon 2006: Jimmie Johnson* 2005: Tony Stewart* 2004: Jeff Gordon * Winner using either system. 405. David posted: 11.10.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Lots to respond to: "I'll one up you...without The Chase Johnson wins 2004, 2006, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013." I agree definitely on 2006, 2008, 2009, 2012, and 2013, but no way would he have won 2011. The #48 team as a whole was way off that year. No idea why (complacency, maybe?), but they were. "Happy 238th birthday to the United States Marine Corps!" By all means. I think I'll watch some Gomer Pyle, U.S.M.C. later tonight in honor of the occasion. "Johnson flat out deserves this title. Best driver/team in the sport right now, bar none." Agreed. But the Chase doesn't always get it right now, does it? Somewhat controversial opinion alert: I think that Johnson has deserved every single one of his titles. Now, before I get jumped on, let me explain. There is a line between "deserving" and "legitimate", and while the Chase has oftentimes produced statistically illegitimate champions (2004, 2007, 2010, 2011), almost every single time the champion has been deserving of his title. Why do I say this? Well, this is a point that has been made numerous times before, but everyone knows the points system going into the season. Everyone--the drivers, crews, garage personnel, etc.--plans for the Chase before the Daytona 500 even starts. There are no midseason surprises. NASCAR doesn't just come out and say "hey, we're going to make the last ten races a playoff series" in the off week before the Brickyard 400. That would be grossly unfair to everyone involved. Teams know what they should and shouldn't do, especially in the last few races before the Chase and if they're on the bubble of contention. Then, when the Chase does begin, the teams and the drivers rise to their peaks (well, some of them do anyway) and duke it out over the final ten races. And it just so happens that Jimmie Johnson and the #48 team have absolutely mastered this concept. That's why I say that they've been deserving of those five titles. Have some of them been statistical travesties? Heck yeah. Has the Chase cheapened the value of the first 26 races, and the titles in general? Absolutely. But the fact is that the Chase is designed around the last ten races. It awards the title to whoever was good enough in the first 26 to make it in and was at the pinnacle of performance during those final events. Every sport's playoff has awarded the title to a team who was not as good overall more than once. Baseball's playoff consisted of only the World Series, and was only the best of the American League and and the National League until 1969, when divisional play was introduced to spice up excitement in the postseason. Many fans thought this ruined the "purity" of the Series. Same goes for the Chase. But the system is the system. "I can just see a painting or collage of the three of them now: The Cool Grinning Cowboy Hat Wearing King, The Gruff & Tough Shaded Steely Gaze Faced Man in Black and then you got.... The Frail Ironic Hobo Chic Hipster Dweeb Looking Down His Nose At Everybody." Hahaha!!! Though Johnson is anything but frail. He's actually pretty fit. By the way, how weird would it be if Kevin Harvick somehow won the title next week? How much of a middle finger would that be to Richard Childress and the Dillon boys? Imagine the awkward celebrations... 406. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 11.10.2013 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zachary Shawn, your Tigers ran all over my Vols yesterday. I think Nick Marshall is still running through those huge lanes the offensive line was creating yesterday. 407. Matt posted: 11.10.2013 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a Jeff Burton fan, I am unsure what to do in the upcoming couple seasons. Don't know who to root for until Harrison Burton arrives. Anyhow, I've been meaning to comment on how I see the racing in the series and get feedback. The racing as a whole was much improved this year, but does still have a ways to go. I have been watching many races from the early 2000s and have been comparing those (which I feel were spectacular) to now and I have found a couple differences. First, the cars are larger as track size has remained the same. The narrower cars of old could have more room to move around the track (this is all marginal) than now where they are noticably wider. Second, I do feel slowing the cars down could be a benefit to the overall quality of racing (as many here ave mentioned). Third, I dislike the unfair advantages double file restarts provide and I much preferred single file when a good car could navigate and not get caught in an unpreferred groove. Finally, I feel as if the other cars were so on edge that even the best could lose control on their own. Rarely do you see the cars get squirrely as they used to and most cautions involve a contact induced spin not so much a loss of control. Also when they do lose control, the new roof flaps, shark fin (which I hate), etc help save the car. I feel as if less rear spoiler or anything to make the cars more on edge would greatly improve racing. Looking for feedback, these are just my opinions, want to hear others. 408. cjs3872 posted: 11.10.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, from start to finish, if he indeed finishes off the season the way I think he will, with a championship, I believe this season will be Jimmie Johnson's most complete season. I know he's had years where he piled up bigger statistics (including 2004, when he did not win the title), but I think his season from start to finish has been more complete and thorough than any of his previous seasons. Sure he hit that one month stretch prior to the Chase where he struggled, but his team was experimenting, so they were bound to be hit-and-miss during that period. And if he does win the title, he would join Richard Petty as just the second driver ever to win the Daytona 500 and the championship in the same year more than once, since he had already done that in 2006, the year of his first championship. Petty achieved that four times (1964, '71, '74, and '79). But I think one question surrounding the finale at Homestead will be whether or not Matt Kenseth will hold onto second place, because Kevin Harvick is definitely charging, and as I mentioned, Harvick's now just six points behind Kenseth for second place. And the fact that RCR is still giving Harvick winning cars, despite him leaving and the comments he made in Ty Dillon's direction, to me shows the high degree of integrity of Richard Childress and his organization. They could have mailed it in because of the mentioned reasons, but instead, Harvick has a real shot at finishing second and I think Childress and Harvick would love nothing better than to be the winningest team in the Chase this year, as a third Chase win at Homestead would accomplish, as well as winning their final two races together after 13 years in the Cup Series. Harvick, who also won this race last year, joined Davey Allison, Jeff Burton, Dale, Jr., and Jimmie Johnson as the fifth driver to win this race two years in a row (Johnson actually won it three years in a row from 2007-'09). 409. Bronco posted: 11.10.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Kenseth and his team choked big time, far worse than Hamlin in 2010. Hamlin dominated that Phoenix race and just had bad luck as far as not being able to stretch his fuel to make the distance. Kenseth flat out sucked today, finishing between Labonte and Gilliand and last among the Chasers overall. This is despite the fact that his team dominated the last two flat track races at New Hampshire and Martinsville. But for some reason, people will blame Kenseth's pit crew and crew chief for this one, while blaming Hamlin and Busch (the drivers, not their teams) for their chokes in years past. 410. Aaron posted: 11.10.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Props to Dale Jr. for rebounding from another loose wheel to get a top-five. Today was one of his best drives of the season. 411. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.10.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I have had the chance to read the previous comments, and, for the most part, almost everyone seems accepting of Jimmie Johnson winning a sixth championship next Sunday. I will admit that I don't really care at this point if Johnson wins a sixth title next Sunday. I just want this year to end. It's been a year of controversy and awful races (however I can name a few great races) and it's been terrible to endure. I have a lot of optimism for next year, as many different changes to help improve things might be implemented. I just really hope that the events of this year don't cause NASCAR to lose a ton of fans, especially some on this board. It's just been repetitive to hear the comments like "NASCAR is no longer fun" and "NASCAR is nowhere where it was 20 years ago." Of course those things are true, but what can we do about it? NASCAR is run by people who have little regard for anything involving its history, and there's nothing we can do about it. My advice to the people who are angry with modern NASCAR and want to quit watching: don't lose faith. I have watched NASCAR long enough to know that this is a dark time in the sport and no signs of improvement seem possible. But don't worry, because things will get better. 412. DB1995 posted: 11.10.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This was overall a terrible weekend for me 1. Physics homework 2. My high school lost to Johnson County in the playoffs and dont advance further 3. I wanted Ross Chastain to win the trucks, and learned he most likely wont have a ride next season 4. The VOLS got ran all over by the Tigers, but Brick by Brick i believe we can improve 5. Kyle Busch ran all over the nationwide race 6. Matt Kenseths Gremlin is slow all day and Johnson leaves Phoenix having to finish 23rd to win the championship. 413. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 11.10.2013 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Vols need to start with some coordinator changes, especially on the defensive side. 414. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.10.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @ 407 All the tracks are actually 2-3 feet narrower for the majority of the track due to the installation of SAFER barriers. 415. MStall41 posted: 11.10.2013 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "I just really hope that the events of this year don't cause NASCAR to lose a ton of fans, especially some on this board. It's just been repetitive to hear the comments like "NASCAR is no longer fun" and "NASCAR is nowhere where it was 20 years ago." Of course those things are true, but what can we do about it? NASCAR is run by people who have little regard for anything involving its history, and there's nothing we can do about it. " People have been saying those same things for the past 10 years. Those people who say that stuff are just over dramatic and prissy. They represent a vocal minority of the fan base that disproportionately represents what the fan base is actually feeling at any given time. The negative ones ALWAYS scream loudest, and the content people generally don't have a reason to post stuff on Internet boards...because they are content! Don't let a few hardcore crazies skew your viewpoint of NASCAR. In fact, if you avoid message boards for a few weeks while watching ANY sport (especially NASCAR), your feelings towards the sport will improve dramatically. So just ignore the negative nancies, focus on the positives of this season (there were many), and take solace in the fact that the Gen 6 was at least a slight improvement over Gen 5. Good things are still to come, just stay positive :D 416. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.10.2013 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) ...I really don't know what to say. Watching the struggles that Johnson went through while trying to win the Championship in 2004 and 2005, I started thinking that he was cursed. Granted, I was only 10 at the time that the 48 blew his tire and smacked the outside wall at Homestead that year, and yes, I had only 'watched' Johnson lose the championship two times, but I was afraid he was cursed. Now I'm honestly amazed to see the guy, with the same team, and same owner, making a last semi-calm sprint to the finish of a 6th championship. Can they make it 7? I don't know. I do know this though. To watch a team *Not just one man like Richard Petty, or a Man and a Owner like Earndhart and Childress* pull together and win 5 *about to be 6* titles in a 8 year period is mind-blowing when you think of it. This is something that should be noted though, about Petty, Earndhart, and Johnson. All three won most of thier titles with only one team. Earndhart won all of his BUT 1980 with Childress. Petty was always with Petty Enterprises. Johnson with Hendrick. Oh, and all three of Gordon's titles came with Hendrick also. So with everyone who had 4 or more titles, nearly all of them came from the same owner. Strange, huh? Also, I'd say that without the Chase, Johnson would have won 2004, 2006, 2008 *Would have been close, but he could have edged out Edwards*, 2009, 2010 *Not as close as it was with the chase*, and he would STILL be going for the 6th title today, probably having it already locked up. The reason I pick those years was because of the lack of year-long consistency from his primary rivals in those seasons vs. Johnson's. I think almost eveyone else here agrees with me on at least two or three of those years. I will say one last thing. Even if Johnson does get a 7th or 8th title, I will not be able to see him above R. Petty. Petty won races in 4 different decades. Sr won races in four different decades *70's, 80s, 90's, and 2000*. Johnson will not be able to do that. I'm sure you all can understand right now that between 2003 and 2013, there hasn't been much change with new drivers that are consistently front runners and championship contenders. Yes, we've gained Hamlin, Edwards, and Keselowski, and Harvick, but Gordon, Stewart, Kenseth, and Johnson have stayed around, Martin stayed decently relevant through a good portion of it. Johnson has not had to face a near-totally new crop of drivers. As Opposed, Petty 79 to Petty 69 or Earnhardt 1980 to Earnhardt 1990 is another set of HUGE differences when it comes to drivers. In 1980 there was still Richard Petty *even though he would never win another championship*, Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, Dale Sr, and I'm sure there are alot of others I am forgetting. Compare that to 1990. Bill Elliot, Davey Allison, Darrel Waltrip, Mark Martin, Rusty Wallace, Ricky Rudd. You see, one of Johnson's major advantages that he has that Sr and Petty did not was that he had more time with the same drivers, and was able to memorize the styles and patterns of his rivals, because he has not yet gone through a 'changing of the guard'. Dale Sr and Petty did *Well, under Richard's reign it was a constantly revolving door as to 'who was his next big competitor...*. I know it sounds pathetic, but I'll stick by that statement, however complicated it might be. Sr and Petty had to put that extra leg up and simply out-preform, they couldn't out-strategize as well as Johnson and Johnson's crew chief had. 417. BON GORDON posted: 11.10.2013 - 11:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Despite being furious with the way Jeff fell back the last 28 laps or so (still kinda am) and if not for Texas he's had a solid chase run. He has basically clinched another Top ten points finish after not originally even making the chase. Yea he's had only 8 Top five finishes which does suck. Overall his cars the first 15 races were junk. Jeff still gave it a run. Will he win another title...no way. Or not at least while he's driving for Rick Hendrick. As much as I dislike Jimmie Johnson as a driver I honestly like him as a person. He did not ruin this sport I don't care what anyone says. He needs competition that isn't afraid to rough his feathers (aka Brad Keselowski or Kurt Busch). As much as everyone else dislikes the Chase and yes it hurt Gordon in 2007 and to a lesser extent 2004 I don't. I like the Chase. NASCAR by no means is bad. Was it better in 1993 than 2013 I don't know. I didn't watch it back then. What I can tell you is I became a fan in 2002 and I enjoy it just as much then as I do now. Would I like Gordon to do better...yes. I'm tired of hearing the gloom and doom NASCAR is apparently experiencing. Yes we've seen attendance issues everywhere. I think NASCAR needs more short tracks and road courses and less intermediate tracks. Get rid of the bump stops, slow the cars down, and allow the crew chiefs and teams adjust and work on the car more. I think NASCAR needs more personalities too. I've said it before. In closing congratulations to Jimmie Johnson and team #48. They earned it. They earned every title, yes even 2007. Sorry Gordon. My driver should have picked it up the last four races. All I want now is for Gordon to finish the season with a solid Top seven finish. 418. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.10.2013 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Cam has matured a lot this year. Still has some ways to go, still showboats too much. But his decisions are a lot better and he is MUCH better in the 4th quarter (the first two games excluded). 419. cjs3872 posted: 11.11.2013 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, I can answer your question about whether it was better in 1993, the year of Earnhardt's sixth title, or 2013, the year that Jimmie Johnson may join the 6x champion's club, and without question it was better in 1993, because there were more truly great drivers then, even though the overall level of competition was definitely lower in '93 than today. I've always maintained that there were more great drivers then, but there are more good drivers now, and there were more organizations capable of winning then. Ten teams won races in 1993, including the Wood Brothers, Bud Moore Engineering, Robert Yates Racing, Richard Childress Racing, Penske Racing, Hendrick Motorsports, Roush Racing, SabCo Racing, which was a major force back then, Morgan-McClure Motorsports, and a fledgling team called Joe Gibbs Racing. And the competition was so steep at the top that Junior Johnson failed to win a race for the very first time that year, nor did Darrell Waltrip or Harry Gant, who were both very competitive in 1993 despite not winning. The difference between then and now had to do with the top-heaviness of the competition of that era, while most of the competition is among the second-tier drivers, who can win races, but usually only on certain types of tracks. As I've mentioned, there is a reason why three drivers, Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, and Tony Stewart, tower over everyone else. If Johnson win the title as expected, that means that those three drivers will have combined for 13 championships, including eight of nine since 2005. They've also combined to win a total of 202 races, 88 for Gordon, 66 for Jimmie, and 48 for Tony. Only one other full-time driver, Matt Kenseth, is within 20 of Stewart's total, with 31, and about a quarter of those have come this year (7 of 31). Johnson, Gordon, and Stewart are the only true greats racing now, with Kenseth likely joining them if he has another year like this one, so you don't have the greatness at the top you had back then, but most of the competitiveness which makes this era of competition as competitive as it looks resides in the second-tier drivers. That's where the depth is today. Whether or not someone like the Busch brothers, Brad Keselowski, Kevin Harvick, Carl Edwards, Kasey Kahne, or Denny Hamlin can join the top tier, that remains to be seen, but for now, there are only four drivers I consider to-tier drivers, but about 8-12 others that can be considered very competitive second-tier drivers, but not quite drivers of the highest caliber, where Johnson, Gordon, Stewart, and Kenseth reside. 420. BON GORDON posted: 11.11.2013 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know cjs I'm just making a point that my interest for NASCAR hasn't changed in 11 years. I think NASCAR is still a Top five sport and still has millions and millions of devoted happy fans. 421. cjs3872 posted: 11.11.2013 - 12:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Well DSFF, one thing I can say about the Panthers is that head coach Ron Rivera has a defense that is getting to the level of some of those he played on in Chicago, and that has the Panthers in serious contention, not only in the NFC South, but the entire NFC, as well. When you go into San Francisco and beat up the 49ers, you're making a big statement, and right now, they're actually in playoff position as the first Wild Card in the NFC, and they've got the Saints looking over their shoulders at the moment. Actually, this looks like a sea change year in the NFL. Every decade seems to have such a year, and 2013 seems to be it for this decade. Detroit, Carolina, and especially Kansas City have seemingly come from nowhere, and even Arizona, Miami, and the Jets have become contenders for at last playoff berths this season. And on the other hand, several team expected to contend, including both of my Super Bowl picks, Atlanta and Houston, are having terrible seasons, and they're not alone. Aside from Atlanta and Houston, Pittsburgh, Green Bay (due to QB injuries), Baltimore, and the N.Y. Giants, who've become annual contenders, are struggling this season. Yet above it all, there are three teams who continue to win, New Orleans, New England, and despite an awful performance today, the Indianapolis Colts. Once again, they're back among the contenders. I don't think the Chiefs can stay up there, and I'm still not sure about Denver, not just because of their defense, but because I don't think they've beaten a really good team this year. If I had to pick who I thought the two best AFC teams are, I would pick the Patriots and Colts, who have issued both Seattle and Denver their only losses (despite their horrendous outing today). I think the top NFC teams are Seattle (obviously) and New Orleans, though Detroit's up there, as well. 422. Newt posted: 11.11.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) #87 sponsor: Royal Teak Collection (they were on the hood of the car) 423. An Aussie Commentor posted: 11.11.2013 - 2:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) #87 Sponsor: Royal Teak Collections (watching the race on replay and just saw Royal Teak Collections on the bonnet of his car) 424. Tibbs posted: 11.11.2013 - 7:07 am Rate this comment: (2) (4) Better Jimmie with 6 than Harvick with 1. 425. DRF posted: 11.11.2013 - 9:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) Someone give Kenseth CPR, cuz he's choking! 426. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.11.2013 - 11:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (3) Sheesh... floating around the internet has taught me one thing: Broncos and Seahawks fans are some of the most disgusting cockroaches to ever crawl the face of this earth. 427. Dense Drip posted: 11.11.2013 - 12:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope this won't be Bobby Labonte's last race ever... 428. cjs3872 posted: 11.11.2013 - 2:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, the thing about Broncos fans is that, for many years, there wasn't anything else there in Denver worth cheering for, specially during the football season. But the one thing about the fans there is that they expect you to be there if you have a ticket. On one season-ending highlight film, they showed a scene where the Broncos fans actually booed the fans that had a ticket and didn't show up. And in Seattle, the Seahawks have not had hat many good teams to cheer for. But going back to when they played at the Kingdome, the Seahawks fans were always the loudest cheering fans in the league. The Seahawks fans are right up there with Broncos and Chiefs fans as the most vocal in support of their team in the NFL, and always have been. I can remember a game not too many years ago when the Seahawks fans induced about six or seven false start penalties against the Giants because of he crowd noise. And back in the days of old Mile High Stadium, the Bronco fans would literally cause the stands to shake by stomping their feet up and down, similar to what Redskin fans used to do at RFK Stadium in the heyday of the Redskins in the 80s and early 90s. But at least those fan bases are into the game, unlike Charger fans, who are the most blasé in the entire league a group, and always have been. 429. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey cjs, the Braves are leaving Turner Field after 2017 for a new, more baseball friendly park in a better location near Atlanta. We were just talking about that. The biggest thing is they are moving out of the city of Atlanta itself, which doesn't give a damn about the Braves (every city in the South loves the Braves except Atlanta, GA which is mostly transplants, when the Cubs come to town they call it "Wrigley South" and rightfully so) and moving about 20 miles North to avoid the city itself and the traffic Hell On Earth That Is Atlanta. And here is a really cool part for my fellow late 80s/early 90s wrestling nerds: it's in Cobb County! Sing along with me: "If you ever take a trip down to Cobb County Georgia......" 430. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DRF, you're thinking of the Heimlick. Only if they have no pulse from choking would you do CPR. 431. cjs3872 posted: 11.11.2013 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) What does that say about the environment of teams wanting new parks more and more frequently, DSFF? Dodger Stadium was built more than 50 years ago, yet do you ever hear about the Dodgers wanting to move to a new park? And do you ever hear about the Red Sox and Cubs wanting to move from their homes? I don't think so. But teams today want to move out of their parks more and more frequently. And the Tigers moved out of Tiger Stadium because they had to, not because they wanted to. Given a choice, I think the Tigers would have preferred to stay at Tiger Stadium, but the place was decrepit and falling apart. Turner Field is not even 20 years old and the Braves want to move out already? And word is that the Falcons aren't exactly happy with the Georgia Dome, either, and that place is barely 20 years old. Unless there's either something structurally wrong with a place, or it's badly out of date (such as is the case in California), I don't think teams should just be allowed to take the city they play in hostage whenever they choose to, just to get a new stadium to "keep up with the Jones's". 432. murb posted: 11.11.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And here is a really cool part for my fellow late 80s/early 90s wrestling nerds: it's in Cobb County!" lol, Big Boss Man. He was awesome. 433. murb posted: 11.11.2013 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just read a couple new silly season rumors. First, Mike Kelley will supposedly move to the 17 Cup car and be reunited with Ricky Stenhouse. That's what they should have done this season, so I'm glad they're finally doing it now. If it all happens, I expect Stenhouse to have a breakout season for sure. He's done pretty well in the last third of this season, so I would think that being reunited with Kelley could push him into being a solid race winner and Chase contender. And then Steve Addington will apparently leave SHR and go over to the Harry Scott team (is there an official name for this team yet?) and be Justin Allgaier's crew chief. Kevin Manion is also rumored to go over to this team as the competition director. As for Tony Stewart, Martin Truex's crew chief Chad Johnston is one of the leading candidates for the 14 job. So it looks like lots of crew chief shuffling is still to be done this off season. And SHR also needs a crew chief for Kurt Busch, so it'll be interesting who they tab for that job. 434. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hell, Charlotte, NC is the worst. They are already grumbling about a new stadium and the current one was finished in 1996. And the Charlotte Coliseum, which was built for the Hornets in 1988 (and where I saw my first Metallica concert), was torn down in 2006. That is pathetic. Now right in the heart of downtown (whoops, excuse me, UPTOWN) Charlotte they have Time Warner Cable Arena, a very similar arena, just with less seats and more luxury boxes. But it is there I saw my most recent Metallica concert and got to see the legendary Bob Seger who still kicks ass live. Also, there are grumblings about Wrigley because the players want those giant clubhouses like they have at the new places. I've heard rumors of similar complaints about Fenway, but nobody will say anything publicly because trashing Fenway publicly puts you at the top of Boston's shit list, plus the fact that Fenway ain't going anywhere. It is an American treasure. 435. cjs3872 posted: 11.11.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) As is Wrigley Field, DSFF. Also, and I don't think they'll say it, but many people feel that the Cubs will never win anything else as long as they play at Wrigley Field. And while a lot of people think it's because of the curse that was attached to it in 1945, as far as the Cubs are concerned. I think the reason the Cubs can't build a consistent winner is because you can't have a consistent winner in that park because of how the weather influences games. You can't build a team on strong pitching, because if the wind blows out, no pitcher can thrive there. But on the flipside, if you build a team based in hitting, you can't thrive there if the wind blows in. The weather has too much influence on games for the Cubs to build a consistent winner as long as they call Wrigley Field home. It didn't affect the Bears nearly as much when they played there, because the winds don't have nearly the influence on football as it does baseball, especially the way football was played when the Bears called Wrigley Field home. And even the Bears only had one NFL championship after 1946 during the time they played at Wrigley Field, and that was in 1963, which was also the only NFL championship game played at Wrigley Field after the whole Billy Goat situation. (The 1947 NFL Championship game was played at Comiskey Park, which the Cardinals called home, as they beat the Eagle 28-21 for their most recent NFL championship and the 1946 and 1956 NFL Championship Games between the Bears and Giants were both played at Yankee Stadium.) After all, if there's one MLB franchise that may deserve to be cursed (something I wouldn't wish on anyone), it's the Chicago White Sox (due to the Black Sox Scandal), but they've not only made it to the World Series twice since the Cubs' last appearance, they actually won it in a four-game sweep in 2005. 436. 18fan posted: 11.11.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Cubs did have the best record in the National League in 2008, but were swept in the NLDS by the Dodgers. One of the Cubs' biggest problems is they have grossly overpaid for free agents and couldn't get rid of those contracts (Alfonso Soriano being the prime example as they tried to trade him for three years before the Yankees were so desperate that they made the trade). 437. Sector posted: 11.11.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "all three of Gordon's titles came with Hendrick also. So with everyone who had 4 or more titles, nearly all of them came from the same owner. Strange, huh?" Sorry, Jeff Gordon has 4 championships, not 3. 438. cjs3872 posted: 11.11.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I never said the Cubs couldn't build a winning team, 18fan. I just said that they couldn't build a consistent winner as long as they call Wrigley Field home because of how the weather influences games. They were five outs away from the World Series in 2003 and eight outs away in 1984 before the hands of fate denied them on both of those occasions. But for some reason, something strange always happens to them when they get close. The black cat in 1969, the ball going through Durham's legs in 1984, the misplay at shortstop by a usually reliable shortstop that opened the floodgates for an eight-run inning in 2003. Those things make you wonder if Wrigley Field is cursed. Even the Bears success waned drastically after the Billy Goat incident in the 1945 World Series, which makes you wonder if it was Wrigley Field, and not the Cubs that were cursed, because if it was just the Cubs that were supposedly cursed, then why did it also seem to affect the Bears after that incindent? 439. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 11.11.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have posted a blog on 2014 championship contenders. Basically Johnson can only beat himself 440. 18fan posted: 11.11.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Travis Pastrana will not be back in NASCAR next year. 441. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) The weather certainly has a huge influence at Wrigley. But one Devils Advocate thought: for a long time they said you couldn't build a champion at Fenway due to its charmingly bizarre dimensions. They said because they had to play 81 games per year at Fenway, you needed somebody who could hit those left field moonshots over The Green Monster, the same hits that would be easy outs to left field at the Old Yankee Stadium and its famous "Death Valley" area or warning tracks shots anywhere else. Actually that Death Valley area cost the Yanks Game 7 of the '55 World Series as what would have been a homer in almost every other park was a tough out, but an out as the Dodgers won their only title in Brooklyn. Personally I always thought the Fenway Myth was BS as has been proven 3 times in the last 10 years. If the Dodgers could win the '59 World Series while playing at the LA Coliseum (and they did) then any team could win a championship anywhere. It was 250 feet to left field there. Of course when your pitching staff has Koufax, Drysdale, and '55 Series hero Johnny Podres, left field wall could be 2 feet behind 3rd base and you'd be fine. Speaking of outfield Death Valley's, what about center field at the Polo Grounds? 500 feet! But that allowed for one of the greatest and most clutch plays by any athlete ever, and certainly one of the most iconic, as Willie Mays made that over the shoulder catch while in a full sprint in the '54 World Series. 442. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Just to clarify the '59 Dodgers comment, ANY team obviously can't win anywhere. What I meant was any team built well enough can win anywhere. I know it is cool that such an iconic team won the World Series at such an iconic venue, and the World Series attendance records were insane. And from a historical standpoint, it is a good thing that happened. But that was one of the worst baseball venues ever. 443. Mr X posted: 11.11.2013 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb I definitely agree that Mike Kelly will do well for Ricky Stenhouse Jr in 2014, just look what Paul Wolfe did for Brad Keselowski in 2011. I dont't know that the results will repeat themselves, but they should be very positive for Stenhouse. 444. 83andJoe posted: 11.11.2013 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Reports are Justin Allgaier will be running for Cup ROTY in 2014. 445. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.11.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jeebus, The Braves are leaving Turner Field after only 20 years there? Falcons want a new dome? Funny that Atlanta is doing this! I realize we built/are building 4 new stadiums in Minnesota in the last 20 years, but the Dome was built cheap and quick and tried to make everyone happy, while really making no one happy at all. The Dome might be just over 30 but The U of MN wanted something of their own, on campus. The Twins, same deal. The Vikings claim they can't compete economically and the NBA and NHL insisted on new stadiums if they were going to expand here since Minneapolis had nothing, the suburban place the North Stars played wasn't fancy enough (and they were on their way out) and St Paul's Civic Center wasn't major league enough. I think cjs3872 hit it on the head...keep up with the Joneses(ahem, Vikings owners, for example). The other thing is how sports business is evolving. You need luxury boxes, all sorts of hi-tech gadgetry, etc. To heck with the blue collar fans that maybe go to a game or two a year and want cheap seats! You have to sell the boxes, etc to the business partners and look for ways to excite the season ticket holders. I find it a little odd the Braves are moving out to Cobb Co. but if what DSFF said is true it makes sense; go where the fan base is. Milwaukee built Miller Park in County Stadium's lot because that's what the fan-base wanted: It's close to downtown, but it's easy for suburbanites to get to via I-94 and US-41 and the land was available. The Twins eschewed St Paul and the Minneapolis river front because they wanted what became Target Field to be close to I-94 and its spur into our affluent western suburbs, where the bulk of season ticket holders (and the big businesses) supposedly come from. As an added bonus, it's close to our excuses for light-rail and commuter rail hubs. (Those are the two markets I'm familiar with...if you're wondering.) 446. David posted: 11.11.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "Travis Pastrana will not be back in NASCAR next year." Or as Dinner Wolf (@CitizenKBA) just tweeted, "Guy with the most personality leaves #NASCAR, guy with absolutely none wins his sixth championship." Sad, but pretty much true. 447. cjs3872 posted: 11.11.2013 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @445, I can understand why the major sports teams in Minnesota wanted out of the Metrodome. Remember what I said about structurally unsound stadiums being among those I can understand teams wanting to get out of. Of all the major sports arenas I watched sporting events from on TV, the Metrodome is THE most structurally unsound of them all, and it isn't even close. The roof has collapsed at least twice that I know of, including most recently in 2010. They had a bag for an outfield wall for more than half the playing area of the baseball field, including the infamous Hefty Bag in right. But aside from that, teams wanting to get out of 20-year old stadiums is more than a little ridiculous. Now I can understand the California NFL teams all wanting new stadiums, because all the stadiums in California capable of hosting NFL games are old and decrepit. I have no problem with teams wanting new stadiums if their current ones just can't cut he mustard any more, but wanting to move out of stadiums that just 20 years ago were brand new? C'mon. 448. Schroeder51 posted: 11.11.2013 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Good for Allgaier. I've thought he deserved a shot at Cup for his performance in Nationwide over the past several years (has a couple of wins against Cup drivers, which is always impressive), so it will be nice to finally see him get that opportunity. Too bad for Pastrana. He's struggled a lot in NASCAR to date, but he seemed to have genuine enthusiasm for the sport and clearly wanted to do better judging by how much he would beat himself up whenever he found the wall. I was hoping to see if he would show improvement next year, but I guess we won't find out. 449. JG24FanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Gordon cracked 400 laps led in a season for the 20th consecutive year. 495th Top 14 finish for Gordon. Looking forward to Gordon becoming a 10 time Nascar driver/owner Champion next weekend. And I am happy that Johnson will likely win the title over Kenseth, especially after the putrid rotting performance Kenseth had in this race, combined with Johnson saving the car twice and pulling out his 7th Top 5 finish in 9 Chase races. I was watching Atlanta 20 years ago when Big E locked up his 6th Championship. How many of you fella's were watching that race too? 450. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.11.2013 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "Or as Dinner Wolf (@CitizenKBA) just tweeted, "Guy with the most personality leaves #NASCAR, guy with absolutely none wins his sixth championship."" As long as he has personality, who cares if he can drive a race car, someone give Pastrana a well-funded ride! Never mind the all the solid young drivers out there who have worked their whole lives to get a good ride, Pastrana deserves a ride because he has personality. /sarcasm I like Pastrana and I wanted him to succeed, but he, similar to Danica, isn't really improving as he runs more races. If he was bringing sponsorship and was creating a new ride in the series, it would be different, but I think it's good that Roush will be able to allocate more resources to promising drivers in his roster such as Ryan Reed and Chris Buescher now. Pastrana has all the options he could ever want in front of him and he'll most likely succeed in whatever it is he tries next. 451. David posted: 11.11.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "As long as he has personality, who cares if he can drive a race car, someone give Pastrana a well-funded ride! Never mind the all the solid young drivers out there who have worked their whole lives to get a good ride, Pastrana deserves a ride because he has personality." I'm sure you weren't thinking that I actually meant that, because I certainly didn't. But we're cool. :) 452. JG24FanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Looking forward to Gordon becoming a 10 time Nascar driver/owner Champion next weekend." Let me clarify: 4 Championships as a driver in 1995,1997-98,2001 6 Championships as an owner in 2006-10,2013 Other notes: Jimmie Johnson enters next weekends finale with a shot for the title for the 9th time in his 12 seasons. Tying him with Big E with the most mathematical title shots in the last race of the season. Jimmie Johnson also currently has the lowest single Chase average finish in history. Jimmie Johnson has also beaten Jeff Gordon in the points for an unbelievable 11th consecutive season, and made it 12 straight years with a Top 6 points finish. 453. Sector posted: 11.11.2013 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) So next week in the Nationwide race, Brad Keselowski is racing again. Not in the 22(Joey Logano is up to defend that Owner's Championship this time), but in the 48. Enjoy folks. 454. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "6 Championships as an owner in 2006-10,2013" Alright, I know I said I was through with present day racing discussions, but I have to say, this really isn't a good thing for Jeff. If it had happened after he retired that would be one thing. I feel Jimmie and Jeff's respective success has hurt each historically, with Jeff getting the worst of it. 455. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.11.2013 - 11:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy shit, the Yucks beat the Dolphins. 456. Anonymous posted: 11.12.2013 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch and Kevin Harvick both reach 100 top 5s in the same race. 457. 18fan posted: 11.12.2013 - 12:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it is interesting that, after all of the off the field drama happening for the Dolphins, their final drive didn't have a chance because the two guys at the center of the controversy weren't on the field. 458. 18fan posted: 11.12.2013 - 2:13 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) In 1993, 23 of the 30 races were won by single car teams, with only Mark Martin (5 wins) and Kyle Petty and Ricky Rudd (1 each) winning for multi-car teams. And Roush and SABCO both fielded two cars and one of them was terrible (Wally Dallenbach for Roush and Kenny Wallace for SABCO). And Rudd's win was the only one for a 3 car Hendrick team. The last win for a single car team was Regan Smith in 2011 at Darlington. 459. Spen posted: 11.12.2013 - 2:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, in both '93 and '13 I didn't watch the races very much. in '93, it was mainly caused by depression over losing both Alan and Davey in the same year, and not helped at all by Bill being totally non-competitive. So much like this year, I was mostly just waiting for the year to end. Of course, this year I haven't watched much because I haven't really had much TV access. Aside from the two Daytona races, I don't think I've seen any race in full this year. In a way, I think I've been luckier than the rest of you there. 460. Jared DiCarlo posted: 11.12.2013 - 3:05 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) The coverage of this race was terrible. Every minute or so they were talking about Jimmie Johnson this, Jimmie Johnson that, especially after his two saves on the track. 461. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 11.12.2013 - 4:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs the falcons are moving into a 1 billion dollar stadium in 2017. I am amazed at all the publicly funded sports arenas in the US 462. 83andJoe posted: 11.12.2013 - 7:18 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) >I like Pastrana and I wanted him to succeed, but he, similar to Danica, isn't really improving as he runs more races. Unlike Danica, Pastrana actually has genuine enthusiasm for the sport, an actual desire to succeed, doesn't whine when the world isn't presented to him on a silver platter by a boot-licking lackey, and is interested in winning instead of "improving [his] brand". >If he was bringing sponsorship and was creating a new ride in the series He brought his own money to the team; the No. 60 wouldn't have run this year if he hadn't stepped up. >I think it's good that Roush will be able to allocate more resources to promising drivers in his roster such as Ryan Reed and Chris Buescher now. If you think that's what RFR is going to do, I have some bad news for you... 463. David posted: 11.12.2013 - 8:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Trevor Bayne has been diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. He has been cleared to continue racing in NASCAR, though. 464. cjs3872 posted: 11.12.2013 - 11:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I suspected and feared that Bayne's situation a little more than two years ago might be more serious, or lead to something more serious than others were letting on. But I didn't think it would be something this bad. Having seen the effects of MS on other people (my grandmother had it for 33 years), I've seen just how bad it can get. I wondered why Roush might be passing Bayne over for someone like Chris Buescher. It turns out that he likely knew of the situation before anyone else did, which may also be why he went after Ryan Newman to go into a ride he penned for Bayne. I believe he realized that Bayne may have had MS, or symptoms of MS for a while, and knew that Bayne may never be able to handle the grind of long Cup season with this incurable disease. It also makes me wonder if Bayne's "lyme disease" was actually the onset of his MS. That's something only Bayne and his doctors truly know. But this is truly tragic news to the NASCAR community, and quite possibly the sports community as a whole. 465. Scott B posted: 11.12.2013 - 11:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I always wondered if concerns about Bayne's health were holding back the sponsor search for the #21. 466. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.12.2013 - 11:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm praying for you Trevor! Yes, cjs, the ESPN article said that Bayne's "lyme disease" was in face MS already starting as was the mysterious numbness in his left arm a few weeks before that. 467. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.12.2013 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I am amazed at all the publicly funded sports arenas in the US" You don't know the half of it. While the government is paying for these elaborate shrines to some rich dude's ego, we have tons of veterans of the Vietnam War and the US wars since struggling horribly to readjust to civilian, and they aren't doing jack shit for them. In many cases, they wind up homless or committing suicide. The majority are struggling and can't get to any medical or psychological help worth a damn. Yet we have these sterile, charmless billion dollar sports venues. Pathetic. 468. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 11.12.2013 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I will post a blog during the week with regards to what Johnson has to done if he wants to be considered one of the GREATEST drivers in NASCAR. 469. Eric posted: 11.12.2013 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, No all owners are able to afford to build a Stadium without public help and the Selig Family is proof of that. Bud Selig actually he wanted to finance his own ballpark on his own. Bud didn't know at the time that he didn't the money to do that. Yes, it is not a typo that the Commissioner of Major league Baseball didn't have the money to finance his own ballpark. I have even more proof of the Selig family not having the money to build Miller Park without public money. In 1995, the Milwaukee Brewers wasn't able to afford 90 million dollars for contributing to building Miller Park. That shows how much money the Selig family had. Political Leaders in Milwaukee also have said the the record that the Seligs really couldn't afford to own the team. That explains why Bud and his family sold the team in 2004 to Mark Attanasio. 470. Eric posted: 11.12.2013 - 1:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR has experience with drivers with MS before Trever Bayne and that means they known what they are getting into. Kelly Sutton raced in the trucks from 2003 to 2007 with MS. The thing is I remembered her spinning many times during her racing career in the trucks series without anyone spinning her truck around. 471. cjs3872 posted: 11.12.2013 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not necessarily the #21 car as much as the Nationwide car last year, Scott B. I don't think the Woods intend to run the full season again, because they became less competitive when they began to run the full season in the mid-80s, likely because it overtaxed the team's resources. But the news about Bayne dropped a bomb on what usually is one of the most celebratory weekends of the season. But the pieces of that puzzle that began in 2011 finally fit. Another thing that bugged me about that whole thing was that they had said that they didn't know what was going on, and months after Bayne was released from the Mayo Clinic, they still maintained that they didn't know what it was. But now it all makes sense. I suspect that he had been diagnosed with MS then, and nobody wanted it made public, not unlike what happened to Walter Payton in 1999, when he had been diagnosed with liver cancer, but had it kept from the public until word was leaking out that Payton had the cancer, which resulted in Payton's impromptu press conference that shocked the world. I think the same thing may have happened here. Bayne, his doctors, and his car owner probably knew about the MS, but they wanted it kept private, but someone probably got hold of the information, and was going to leak it, so Bayne cut that off at the pass and revealed that he has MS. Whatever the situation, although nobody wants to admit it, what happened today was that a career I thought was very promising has effectively come to an end. I thought Bayne had the potential to be one of those that could bring the sport's core fan base back, as well as becoming one of the next generation's top competitors, but sadly, we'll never know now. When he's finally forced to step out of the car due to his disease, I think Bayne will remain a presence in the sport away from the car if h wants to, possibly as a spokesman or even a coach for an organization such a Roush's. Who knows, maybe Bayne might do the same thing for MS as Magic Johnson did for HIV/AIDS more than two decades ago. 472. murb posted: 11.12.2013 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Totally shocked about Trevor. I just hope he's able to live a happy life while suffering from a disease like that. 473. cjs3872 posted: 11.12.2013 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And when it comes to sports, why is it that these kinds of things happen to the genuine good guys? I mentioned Walter Payton in a previous post. The NFL's Man of the Year is named after him. And of course, Lou Gehrig, the captain of the first generation of the Yankee dynasty. He got struck down by the disease that now carries his name. Let's just hope that Bayne ends up more like Magic Johnson than either Gehrig or Payton, because at least Magic's led a long and prosperous life after his HIV diagnosis in 1991, while Gehrig and Payton were killed by their diseases. I've always considered Magic one of those good guys that has always had a positive outlook, even though his disease was self-inflicted due to the lifestyle he lived. And I think Magic Johnson is someone Bayne can look to as someone who has lived a prosperous and joy-filled life after being diagnosed with such a debilitating and deadly disease. Like Magic, Bayne has always had a positive attitude towards everything, and that's going to help him as he battles this situation. 474. The Long Shot posted: 11.12.2013 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Horrible news about Trevor. My best wishes to him as he fights this terrible disease. I know a person who has had it for a number of years now, and she still lives a pretty normal life (she's in her 70's). 475. JP88 posted: 11.12.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow...I'm saddened by the news of Trevor's disease. I think it hits me more that he's the same age as me and has this debilitating sickness. I really came to like him when he won those 3 poles in a row and then moved to Roush in 2010. Just seemed like a genuine kid and a pretty good racer and someone I could root for. Then I watched Speedweeks in 2011 and noticed that Gordon praised him in the Duel race. He had run good all week and when he led coming to the checkers I was going nuts. Then he got sick, which was a bummer, but came back to win that race in Texas (passing Carl) and had a excellent statement win in Iowa this year. I truly believe he would have been a pretty steady Cup driver, possibly like a 10-15 win driver, and a couple top 10 pts. finishes. Hopefully he still can compete while he is cleared to race but man this is so sad. 476. Anonymous posted: 11.12.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) He could feasibly race for another 5-10 more years if the symptoms are treated, right? The issue would be finding an organization to commit to him. I can hardly blame Roush for looking elsewhere. 477. The Sound posted: 11.12.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My apologies, #476 was me 478. BON GORDON posted: 11.12.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Prayers are with Trevor Bayne. Was one of the few new guys who I really liked. He is such a nice guy. If anyone can get through MS it's him. Hendrick motorsports released images of Jeff Gordon's 2014 AARP Chevy. It gets better and better every year. More black on the car with a giant DTEH logo on the hood. Beautiful car. Nothing beats the rainbow car though in my opinion 479. MStall41 posted: 11.12.2013 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm absolutely gutted for Trevor Bayne. To develop such a potentially debilitating disease at such a young age is a travesty. He is the definition of a great role model, and it is incredibly disheartening to see this happen to him. My thoughts are certainly with him and his family on this day as they adjust to this news. 480. MStall41 posted: 11.12.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) On a lighter note, Jeff Gordon's 2014 DTEH car is absolutely gorgeous. Possibly the most badass scheme to grace the circuit in years. 481. Scott B posted: 11.12.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a completely different note... it sure looked to me like Josh Wise was parked late in the race to give teammate David Ragan a chance to earn one extra point... but no one seems to care about team orders this week? 482. BON GORDON posted: 11.12.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agreed MStall41. By far my favorite paint scheme of 2014 thus far...no bias. 483. David posted: 11.12.2013 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "On a lighter note, Jeff Gordon's 2014 DTEH car is absolutely gorgeous. Possibly the most badass scheme to grace the circuit in years." Agreed. It is that awesome. 484. cjs3872 posted: 11.12.2013 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But if we're going on the theory that what happened to Bayne not long after his Daytona 500 win was the onset of his MS, then he's already raced (and won) with MS for about two and a half years. That probably means that he has even less time left as a active driver than anyone thinks. But as I've also said, Bayne would be a great guy for a fledgling organization to have as a driver coach (such as Roush once had with Joe Millikan), as well as to be a spokesman for the disease he has, which is why I say he could be to MS what Magic Johnson has been for the HIV/AIDS virus for more than 20 years. (Whether he'd cut it as a commentator is debatable at this time.) I also think that Bayne could be someone that can give Roush and the Wood Brothers some input on who his replacement will be those cars when his disease forces him out of the car for good. One thing's for sure. Roush is going to have to have a backup plan for his #6 NNS car next year, and the same is true regarding the Wood Brothers with their iconic #21 car for their partial schedule. 485. cjs3872 posted: 11.12.2013 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By the way, while everyone's talking about championship scenarios regarding Jimmie Johnson, and what it would take for him to lose it, there's something else nobody has brought up. With a 28-point lead over Matt Kenseth and a 34-point lead on Kevin Harvick, if Johnson finishes last, that means that Kenseth would still have to finish 15th or better and/or Harvick would have to finish eighth or better to get to where Johnson's current point total is, plus one (Harvick needs an extra point due to tie-breakers). If neither Kenseth or Harvick do that, it doesn't matter what Johnson does, he still takes the title. And we know with the start-and-parks, that Johnson's floor for Homestead is above that. How the #48 team approaches the second half of the race at Homestead may depend on what the 20 and 29 teams are doing. If both are struggling, they may unleash Jimmie and try to go for the win. Let's remember this. If Jimmie finishes where he did at Homestead last year, the place where Brad Keselowski finished would not be enough for either Kenseth or Harvick to overtake Jimmie. Johnson was 36th at Homestead last year, which means that if he finishes there, Kenseth would STILL have to finish eighth or better to take the title. 486. DB1995 posted: 11.12.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Not to sound like a broken record, but the news about Trevor shovels another of crap on this season. Sending my thoughts and prayers out to Trevor his dad Rocky, and his beautiful wife Ashton. It has really hurt my future interest in NASCAR for my favorite to probably have his career cut in half so early. 487. Anonymous posted: 11.12.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im gonna crown Trevor Bayne with the worst luck in modern racing, not just racing luck, but also health wise 488. cjs3872 posted: 11.12.2013 - 7:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DB1995, for Trevor Bayne's parents, Trevor's diagnosis of MS is a double whammy, because Trevor's younger sister also has MS, which is twice as terrible for Trevor's parents. My grandmother had MS for 33 years until she died in 1982, and the last time I saw her in 1981 (she lived in Baltimore, while I lived in San Diego at the time), she weighed about 65-75 lbs., and from what I understand, had been bound to a wheelchair for almost her entire time with MS, so I've seen the results of what it can do to someone, and for Trevor's parents to have both a son and a daughter with this terrible disease, I can't even fathom to think what they may be going through in the future. Now looking back on the events of the 2011 Daytona 500, it may in some way be similar to the events that transpired in 1992, when Alan Kulwicki edged out Bill Elliott for the title, because you had superstar drivers battling with the small team, with the small team winning out, and given events later on (Kulwicki's 1993 plane crash and Trevor's MS diagnosis), combined with just how those events transpired, you would have to say that those things happened for a reason, almost as if the triumphant drivers were never destined to have another great moment, as that was to be their one moment in the sun. Elliott even said that, although he was disappointed not to win a second title, that he was okay with what happened because of Kulwicki's plane crash, probably because he had already been champion and won most of the big events. But that was Kulwicki's one shining moment. And when you look back on Trevor's Daytona 500 win, sure you think back to David Ragan's restart gaffe and all the crashes (and lead changes) that took place that day. But when Trevor led on that final restart, just look at who was behind him. Tony Stewart, Bobby Labonte, Mark Martin, Kurt Busch, Juan Montoya, and even Bill Elliott, champions all, yet it was Bayne, a rookie, who drove those last two laps just as he had all day, flawlessly, and took the win, which will probably his only Cup win now, with all those champions behind him, almost as if directed by a higher power. 489. startandparkfan posted: 11.12.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Who do you think will be in the #60 next year? I'm going for Ryan Reed or Chris Buescher. 490. cjs3872 posted: 11.12.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @489, I suspect that Chris Buescher's the favorite to get that ride for next year, simply because Ryan Reed brings sponsorship with him to the #16 car, but it could be the other way around. But Roush has a potentially big problem with his Nationwide team, and that's the #6 car. Despite what he and everyone else involved in the Trevor Bayne situation thinks, I'm not convinced that Trevor's going to be able to stay in that car all season next year, because there's no telling when or if his problem is going to force him out of the car, and if that happens, that's another seat at Roush that's going to be wide open. While Roush's NNS team has had serious problems with their performance this year, Roush may all of a sudden have serious problems with his driver roster next year. I wouldn't be surprised if Roush told Buescher that if Trevor gets to the point where he's unable to compete any more, that he'll shut down Buescher's team, and put him in the #6 car, which already has sponsorship. I suspect that Buescher will start the season in the #60 car, which is currently driverless for next season, but it wouldn't surprise me if he ended the season in the #6 car, and the #60 ends up shutting down. But that's just a guess. 491. murb posted: 11.12.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Who do you think will be in the #60 next year? I'm going for Ryan Reed or Chris Buescher." It's already been announced that Ryan Reed will run full time in the 16 car. So they'll have Trevor in the 6 (hopefully he'll be able to run most of the year), Reed in the 16, and then probably Buescher part time in the 60. I heard that that's what they were gonna do anyway with Pastrana before he announced he's leaving Nascar. He was just gonna run part time. So they'll probably just have Buescher and maybe a couple of other youngsters (Kevin Swindell?) run those races in the 60. 492. Jim Davis posted: 11.12.2013 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Tony Stewart, Bobby Labonte, Mark Martin, Kurt Busch, Juan Montoya, and even Bill Elliott, champions all, yet it was Bayne, a rookie, who drove those last two laps just as he had all day, flawlessly, and took the win, which will probably his only Cup win now, with all those champions behind him, almost as if directed by a higher power." What do you imagine Kulwicki and Bayne did to get on the wrong side of a higher power? 493. cjs3872 posted: 11.12.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Nothing, Jim. What I was simply stating was that sometimes things such as Kulwicki's championship and Bayne's 2011 Daytona 500 win are, or were so unlikely that they seem to be orchestrated by a higher power, because something was about to happen that would make such a moment their only moment in the sun. In Kulwicki's case, it was the plane crash on April Fools Day, 1993, and in Bayne's case it was the situation that began not long after his Daytona win that began the chain of events, which led to the diagnosis of him having MS. And when you throw in the sequence of events that led to those seemingly impossible wins or championships happening, the only logical explanation to me seems to be that they were orchestrated by a higher power than anything that exists here. 494. Jim Davis posted: 11.12.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "And when you throw in the sequence of events that led to those seemingly impossible wins or championships happening, the only logical explanation to me seems to be that they were orchestrated by a higher power than anything that exists here." Let me see if I follow you here. You think that a higher power, realizing that Kulwicki was going to die in an aircraft accident, decided to arrange things so Kulwicki won the Winston Cup instead of saving him from the aircraft accident? And that this higher power, realizing that Bayne was going to contract MS, decided to arrange things so Bayne won the Daytona 500 instead of preventing him from contracting MS? I can't speak for either man, of course, but I can't help thinking Kulwicki would have gladly foregone the Winston Cup championship if it meant saving his life. And Bayne would cheerfully have passed on winning the Daytona 500 if it meant he didn't have to go through life with MS. I think a Hollywood script where Kulwicki and Bayne each made a deal with the devil to win the Winston Cup championship and Daytona 500 respectively and suffered the terrible and unforeseen consequences as a result makes more sense than your scenario. 495. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.12.2013 - 11:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Terry Francona won AL manager of the year. I want to say I have the utmost respect for Terry and his ability as a manager. And what he did for Cleveland this year was truly outstanding. A hell of a manager did a hell of a job. BUT....... How did Farrell of the Red Sox not win it? Even if you take out the World Series win, they had the beat record in baseball while playing in the loaded AL East (Baltimore and Tampa are both damn good and that team on the Bronx is a tough win even in a down year). Plus he took a team fresh off an epic collapse plus the beer and fried chicken during games embarrassment, then the garbage year with noted ass clown Bobby V, and accomplished all that. 496. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.13.2013 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) As for the higher power helping Kulwicki in '92, what about Davey? He had the points lead entering The Greatest Race Ever, needing to finish 5th or better. And he died the next year too in an aviation accident. And he got there despite the physical pain of bone crunching wrecks at Bristol, Martinsville, The Winston, and the really horrible one at Pocono. Then he had the emotional horror of losing his younger brother in a racing accident on tires Davey bought for him. Shouldn't he have been the one that year? As for Trevor, I too really hate to hear he has MS. But if anyone has the mindset and the right priorities in life to handle this at such a young age it is Trevor. He is the guy you want your daughter to marry. Now as for his Daytona 500 win being pre ordained, is it possible he was simply the best driver in that race? Even before the weekend, after the qualifiers, drivers including Jeff Gordon were lining up to work with Trevor cause he was that good at the new tandem drafting. He never made a wrong move. And it continued into the race. He was quite simply the best driver that day. Look, I believe in God and destiny, and I love sports. But I have a hard time believing He cares who wins or loses. The nature of competition has led to unpredictability and seeming miracles ever since humankind came to be, going back to the original David vs Goliath. 497. Mike posted: 11.13.2013 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) In regards to post 419 by CJS there are about 20-25 top-tier drivers in NASCAR at the current moment, those drivers obviously ranked around the top 20-25 in points. Any one of these 25 drivers can win on race day, however for those ranked 15-25th you need to have an absolutely perfect day to seal that deal. Those perfect days more often than not are most often found at restrictor plate tracks and short tracks ( pit strategy doesn't hurt ). The field is by far and wide more competitive than it was in the early to mid 90's, and there are far more standout drivers these days as well. Back in the early to mid 90's those outside the top 15 could only dream of pulling into victory lane. Now it seems to be more attainable. The racing seems cleaner as well, which made Saturday and Sunday at Phoenix quite enjoyable. 498. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.13.2013 - 8:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The news about Trevor blew me out of my seat. It's heartbreaking. Words can not describe my sorrow. It's a really, really cruel world. 499. Anonymous posted: 11.13.2013 - 9:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In regards to post 419 by CJS there are about 20-25 top-tier drivers in NASCAR at the current moment, those drivers obviously ranked around the top 20-25 in points. Any one of these 25 drivers can win on race day, however for those ranked 15-25th you need to have an absolutely perfect day to seal that deal. Those perfect days more often than not are most often found at restrictor plate tracks and short tracks ( pit strategy doesn't hurt ). The field is by far and wide more competitive than it was in the early to mid 90's, and there are far more standout drivers these days as well. Back in the early to mid 90's those outside the top 15 could only dream of pulling into victory lane. Now it seems to be more attainable. The racing seems cleaner as well, which made Saturday and Sunday at Phoenix quite enjoyable." Excellent post. I agree 100% 500. cjs3872 posted: 11.13.2013 - 11:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Are you guys referring to the drivers, or the teams, because there are more top-notch teams than there used to be, simply because of how many 3 and 4 car teams there are these days. But there are still only four or five drivers that can be truly classified as top-tier drivers, but there are so many more second-tier drivers in elite equipment that I makes them look like top-tier drivers. And besides, when I say top-tier drivers, I mean drivers that can win anywhere, have the desire, and can win when the pressure is highest, and I don't see all those qualities in more than a handful of drivers. There are only four or five complete drivers today, but there are at least twice as many that are missing just one or two of those ingredients that would make them complete. There were more elite drivers in the 80s and 90s, while there were fewer driver below the elite level that could win. Today, the opposite is true. There aren't as many elite drivers today but there are far more that one notch below the top level that can win. The line between the highest tier and the second tier is so fine, but yet can also be seen. For instance, I don't see Kyle Busch or Carl Edwards as a top-tier Cup driver. Not just yet. But I put them on the top of the second tier of drivers. They're missing something that would make them complete, and the same is true of Denny Hamlin. Of the second-tier drivers, I think the only one I see that can be considered a top-tier driver is Kevin Harvick. He's won all the big races but one (the Southern 500), and is a consistently high points finisher (he could finish second this year as a lame-duck driver). He just hasn't won the championship yet. Among the second-tier drivers, he's the one I might put in the top-tier in a year or two. Just because I see a driver as a second-tier driver, that doesn't mean he's not a very good driver. I just don't have him in the highest group because I don't think he's complete. Among the Cup drivers today, I have Kevin Harvick rated #5, just behind the Big Four, Johnson, Gordon, Stewart, and Kenseth. I have drivers such as the Busch brothers, Carl Edwards, Denny Hamlin, and even Brad Keselowski behind Harvick. That's no knock on them. They haven't accomplished as much, nor proven themselves capable of performing when it matters most. After Harvick, I would put Keselowski next, due to his championship, but even he fell of the map this year. 501. kup posted: 11.13.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And AFAIK in 2007 COT debut HM$-Chevys were dominating, 24+48 won 18 of 36 races - half or 50%. But in 2007 Ford & Dodge were shy racers with Toyota like a rookie. In 2013 Gen-6 debut 4 HM$-Chevys are best again, all 4 in z Chase. But Toyotas now are almost equal with top cars of HMS & RCR. Fords are shy again, Dodge is absent somehow. 502. BON GORDON posted: 11.13.2013 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my opinion Kyle Busch is a Top tier driver. He can win anywhere and get a Top ten points finish. Jimmie definitely, Tony definitely, Jeff CAN win anywhere but it seems like the wins are too far apart. Gordon is still a top tier driver. Kenseth is a Top tier driver, especially now. Kevin Harvick has become a very consistent threat to win races the last three or four seasons. He's rarely a race dominator but still always in the hunt. At or near the top of the second tier driver list. Drivers such as Carl Edwards, Kurt Busch, Brad Keselowski, Denny Hamlin, Greg Biffle, Ryan Newman, Dale Jr., and Kasey Kahne are also second tier. 503. Sector posted: 11.13.2013 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remember last year when Clint Bowyer wanted to finish 2nd in points and didn't believe in the runner-up curse that follows the following year. This year, no matter what happens @ Homestead, Clint Bowyer is 8th in points, but winless(The ONLY MWR car winless this year) after having his best season one year ago. So the curse remains over his head after all, as Clint has been very quiet all year aside from the Richmond fiasico prior to the chase, which wasn't a positive thing either at all, especially one that knocked out his teammate, Martin Truex, Jr, out of the chase. Since Tony Stewart won his first championship when Mark Martin finished a runner-up in 2002 and ended up 17th the following year, despite becoming a co-owner champion thanks to Matt Kenseth in 2003, that runner-up spot has been a curse every. Single. Season. I want Kevin Harvick to make some noise at Stewart-Haas Racing next year alongside with Kurt Busch, so believe me when I say this, that I do not want Kevin Harvick passing Matt Kenseth for 2nd in points next week. It'll be interesting to see Matt, or Kevin if he does pass Matt, breaks this curse however in 2014. 504. Jim Davis posted: 11.13.2013 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This year, no matter what happens @ Homestead, Clint Bowyer is 8th in points, but winless..." But if he wins at Homestead he would no longer be winless, right? 505. Sector posted: 11.13.2013 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yes, that is true Jim Davis. lol Fact of the matter is, Clint Bowyer and the 15 team hasn't defeated the curse this year. 506. cjs3872 posted: 11.13.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, what keeps Kyle Busch from being a top-tier driver in my view is what we've seen again this year, and that is his constant inability to perform in the clutch. Beginning at Kansas, the bottom fell out of his season, and unless he wins at Homestead, he will continue to be winless in every Chase in which he's qualified. I'm sorry, but if you can't perform in the big moments, as Kyle Busch has consistently proven he can't do, you're not a top-tier driver in my book. One big thing that separates the top-tier from the second tier in any sport is their ability to perform in the clutch. Tom Brady vs. Peyton Manning is a classic case. Manning has the numbers, but I'll always take Brady when it counts. History tells you things like this, and the fact that a driver as talented as Kyle Busch has never won a race in the Chase in a year in which he's qualified for it tells me he's not a pressure performer, and thus, not a top-tier driver. Sorry, but facts are facts. 507. MStall41 posted: 11.13.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I had to rank the drivers in "tiers" like cjs suggests, it would go something like thus: Tier 1: Johnson, Gordon, Stewart, Kenseth, Ky. Busch, Keselowski Tier 2: Harvick, Edwards, Hamlin, Logano, Bowyer, Kahne, Earnhardt Jr., Ku. Busch, Newman Tier 3: Truex Jr, Biffle, McMurray, Vickers, Ragan, Montoya, Newman, Allmendinger Tier 4: Stenhouse, Ambrose, Dillon, Larson, Allgaier, Mears, Menard, Burton, Gilliland, Almirola, Martin, Sadler, Bayne, Kligerman Tier 5: Patrick, Blaney, Yeley, Wise, B. Labonte, Cassill, McDowell, etc, etc, etc. 508. MStall41 posted: 11.13.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, now that I think about it, I'd probably throw Newman in Tier 3 instead of Tier 2 509. startandparkfan posted: 11.13.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Next Race Lasts- Last race for Ken Schrader. Possibly last race for Mark Martin. Last race for Juan Pablo Montoya in a full NASCAR schedule (i wouldn't be surprised to see him in a car for the road courses, maybe the #56) Possibly last race for Jeff Burton Last race for #56 as a full time team and the #29 as a number Last race for the following driver/team placements (excluding retirees): Kevin Harvick #29 Ryan Newman #39 Martin Truex Jr. #56 Kurt Busch #78 Kyle Larson in the #51 Elliott Sadler in the #55 Michael McDowell in the #98 Reed Sorenson in the #95 Last race for Jimmie Johnson to be 5-time (sadly) Last race of the year (obviously) Possibly the last race for the current qualifying system. Last race where Tony Stewart is not racing. 510. startandparkfan posted: 11.13.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My Team Tiers Tier 1: Hendrick Motorsports, Joe Gibbs Racing, Richard Childress Racing, Michael Waltrip Racing, Stewart Haas Racing, Roush Fenway Racing, Penske Racing Tier 2: Richard Petty Motorsports, Earnhardt Ganassi Racing, Furniture Row Racing Tier 3: JTG-Daugherty Racing, Front Row Motorsports, Phoenix Racing/Harry Scott, Germain Racing, Wood Brothers Tier 4: Tommy Baldwin Racing, BK Racing, Swan Racing, FAS Lane Racing Tier 5: Phil Parsons Racing, Circle Sport, NEMCO-JRR, Tri-Star Motorsports, Leavine Family Racing, HMR/GoGreen/Brian Keselowski Motorsports, Xxxtreme Motorsports. 511. BON GORDON posted: 11.13.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well cjs you could say the same about Jeff Gordon the last four seasons. He doesn't perform great in the chase, he lets many wins slip away, and he hasn't finished in the top five in points since 2009. While his run at Richmond last year to make the chase was amazing and holding off JJ at Atlanta in 2011 was amazing as well those moments are too rare for Jeff anymore. You could argue he's a tier 2 driver as well. 512. startandparkfan posted: 11.13.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lowe's / Kobalt Tools vs. Home Depot / Husky Tools for the championship (although Kenseth will run his Dollar General scheme in the race). 513. 83andJoe posted: 11.13.2013 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Intersting note: neither BK Racing car will be carrying Burger King branding this weekend, in Burger King's home market... 514. cjs3872 posted: 11.13.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But BON GORDON, how much of that is Gordon? I don't think very much. A lot of Gordon's struggles in recent years have to do with a crew chief that's absolutely rotten at calling a race, as well as the organizational structure at Hendrick Motorsports. Remember that HMS is set up so that Jimmie Johnson, and only Jimmie Johnson can win championships. That was proven in 2007. Also remember that Kasey Kahne's cars are usually significantly faster than Gordon's on high-speed tracks, which comprise half the Chase races, a fact that was never demonstrated quite like it was at Pocono, and Gordon still almost beat him there. And as was proven at Martinsville, he can still get it done when he needs to. That win briefly put him back in the championship discussion when he had only been added to the Chase at the last possible moment. And he's been at the center of numerous attempts to compromise the integrity of the sport by different teams (RCR, MWR, Penske, FRM, and even Toyota) at each of the last three fall races at Richmond because of how much he's feared by his competitors. 515. BON GORDON posted: 11.13.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs Jeff can make decisions too. It shouldn't be all be on the crew chief. While I do agree that Johnson is Rick's #1 priority Gordon should still take some of the blame. How do you explain a drop from 5th-15th at the end of the Phoenix race. Restarts are a big issue with Gordon. He needs to try a little harder. He's really good but nowhere near the force he once was. 516. cjs3872 posted: 11.13.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The drop from fifth to 15th could simply be a result of the handling going away on his car, which can happen to anyone at any time, and as for restarts, he's never been that aggressive in traffic, even in his best years. In fact, his being cautious in traffic was probably his one weakness when he was in his prime. His philosophy has always seemed to be that he'll let things settle and if they get overly aggressive around him, he'll just let them go and take the positions back during the course of the run, which is usually the case. A classic case of this was on the final restart of the 1999 Daytona 500. Both he and Dale Earnhardt were together in about ninth and tenth place, but Earnhardt charged through the field as he always did, passing seven cars in one lap. On the other hand, Gordon took his time, usually passing them one at a time, but he eventually got there to make the move for which he may be most remembered. He just prefers not to take unnecessary risks, especially at this point in his career. And he usually gains back the spots he loses on the restart, even if six of eight cars pass him. But he's always been like that on restarts through his career. Andy Petree even noted this at Atlanta in 2011. Petree mentioned on the broadcast of that race that Gordon's generally conservative on restarts, preferring not to take the chance on getting in trouble, and instead passing them one at a time when the traffic thins out, and he usually gets those spots back. That's just always been a part of his race strategy. 517. startandparkfan posted: 11.13.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Changing the topic, I think that the #56 next year will be a Part time car running around 15-20 races, with Michael Waltrip at the SuperSpeedways, Montoya at the road courses, and Mark Martin and Jeff Burton in the other races. 518. joey2448 posted: 11.13.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it seems our friend Joseph Logano is newly engaged. To whom, I don't know, but congrats to them! 519. joey2448 posted: 11.13.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah, one more thing about Logano and his bride-to-be....I just wonder if she'll be the one wearing the firesuit atop the pit box, lol! 520. cjs3872 posted: 11.13.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @517, while the #56 (or whatever number it ends up being) is going to be a part-time car next year, I think you're off-base on the drivers, except for Michael Waltrip, who would drive it in the plate races. First, Mark Martin has effectively announced his retirement from the Cup Series, as of the end of Sunday's race, so he's out of the picture there. Secondly, if they were going to go with a veteran driver for a large chunk of the schedule, the obvious pick to me would be Bobby Labonte, for one very obvious reason. Having Bobby in the car virtually guarantees it a spot in the field, since he would get he champion's provisional, something Jeff Burton doesn't have the luxury of. Also, Montoya's going to be racing IndyCars for Roger Penske, so we know he's not available for he road courses, if they choose to run them, which they probably will not do. Also, I still suspect that one of those veteran drivers (such as Jeff Burton) may end up in the #21 car toward the latter part of next season as a stop-gap if Trevor Bayne has to step out of the car before season's end. And if that happens, I think Burton may be a better fit there, due to his Virginia ties, as well as his previous ties to Roush, where he scored 17 Cup victories. 521. The Sound posted: 11.13.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michigan football playoffs are in the third round. My school just won our district championship, and now we get to face the defending state champions in the quarterfinals. To be honest, I believe this year's team has overachieved, and I would not be shocked if we get demolished, but I am hoping for a good fight at the least. My senior year, two years ago, we lost in the quarterfinals to a team we never should have lost to. A few of my teammates have mentioned that they think our coaching staff was looking forward to the team next week, believing we would win handily against an inferior team. We would have faced #1 Marine City the next week. I wish this game would have happened. 522. Jim Davis posted: 11.13.2013 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Having Bobby in the car virtually guarantees it a spot in the field..." This isn't much of a consideration these days. Almost everyone makes the field these days. A qualification rain out is about the only advantage to having a champion's provisional today. 523. jabber1990 posted: 11.13.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) today somebody called Dave Moody and Angie Skinner and said the same things about Danica that we've been saying all year (or at least during the second half of the year) Dave reminded us of Christian Fitipaldi...said that he came in with an unlimited supply of money so Petty gave him a ride (he has the money) but he lasted half a season because he wrecked everything they said he was an unknown, I though he had Indy Car background, and also I don't' remember any of this about Fittipaldi, is there a similarity? is he right? 524. cjs3872 posted: 11.13.2013 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Depends on car count, Jim. Yes, late this season, only enough cars to fill the field has been showing up, but if there's an entry list of 47, 48 cars or more, having a former champion is of greater value since it guarantees him to make the field. Of course, what we don't know is how a potential change in the qualifying format may change things, because it may radically affect how the field is determined if they do away with the single-car runs, and how some teams may play somewhat of a "prevent defense" against potentially faster cars beating them in a group session. It determines what kind of diver Waltrip would want in his part-time car. If he wants a veteran, someone like Bobby Labonte would be a very good choice, but if he wanted to groom a young driver, Parker Kligerman and Alex Bowman could be good options, assuming Waltrip can only pick from Toyota drivers to develop for when he can bring his third car back to full-time status in 2015 or '16 which I think is an eventual certainty. 525. cjs3872 posted: 11.13.2013 - 9:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Jabber1990, at least Christian Fittipaldi was a good IndyCar driver that could actually run up front and win races. Danica couldn't even do that (her one win was a fuel mileage race in Japan). Fittipaldi, unlike his uncle Emerson, was not a top of the line IndyCar driver, but he was a driver that could run up front, winning two races, including a 500-mile race at Fontana in 2000. He also was the Indy 500 Rookie of the Year in 1995, when he finished second, so at least he had credentials, something Danica never really had, except for her runs at Indy. It was also Christian Fittipaldi that admitted how hard it was, even for a road racing expert like him, to drive a NASCAR vehicle on a road course, calling it one of the hardest things h ever had to do in racing. When he said that, I think I opened up the eyes of a lot of people to see just how hard a "stock car" is to drive, especially on a road course. Fittipaldi's admission probably speaks to why no road course "hired gun" has won a road course race in NASCAR's top series since 1973, when Mark Donohue won the season opener at Riverside, the first NASCAR win for Penske Racing. 526. cjs3872 posted: 11.13.2013 - 9:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a different subject, R.I.P. Todd Christensen. Christensen was one of the top tight ends in his day, playing on two Super Bowl champions with the Raiders in 1980 and '83, setting a then-NFL record for TE's with 92 receptions in '83, which also led the NFL for all players that year. Christensen, like Kellen Winslow and Ozzie Newsome, helped streamline the TE position in the 1980s. While many have considered the Raiders to be a laughing stock for the last decade, it's important to remember just how great this organization once was, and Christensen fit the classic Raider mold perfectly. 527. Eric posted: 11.13.2013 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) jabber1990, Dave Moody is partly right about Christian Fitipaldi. Owners in the cup garage actually knew who Christian Fitipaldi was due to the famous late name that his uncle Emerson made famous. I am very familiar with Christian Fitipaldi in CART since it was a series that follow besides Indycar and NASCAR. While the team owners knew who Christian Fitipaldi was, a lot of race fans didn't look at Christian Fitipaldi as a star driver in CART and Dave Moody was right about that. Christian Fitipaldi to me was more talented than Danica is in Indycar based on what I remembered about him. Christian Fitipaldi had 2 career wins in CART, but he was not a star driver. Christian Fitipaldi though was a good driver that was a was top 5 points driver at his best with his problem being staying healthy having issues like Concussions. What Dave Moody failed to say was if Danica was a man, she would be a nobody to fans also because her result in Indy were worse than Christian Fitipaldi's was. Dave was right about Christian Fitipaldi being in a good amount of crashes in cup, but he failed to say that Christian Fitipaldi had worse equipment than Danica did. Petty Enterprises in 2003 was pure garbage in terms of equipment compare to Stewart-Haas. Dave Moody mentioned Christian Fitipaldi in the way he did because NASCAR has control of the media on radio shows unless Dave moody wants his NASCAR media rights to be taken away. I am saying that because NASCAR caused the show Pit bull on Speed to cancel the show after the 2004 season because the people on the show talked what on their mind about NASCAR and NASCAR didn't like what the panel on the show Pit bull said. NASCAR looks at Danica Patrick as their hope to bring in fans and want media to promote her as positively as possible even it doesn't mean telling the whole truth. 528. BON GORDON posted: 11.14.2013 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just finished watching the 1993 Hooters 500 on Youtube. Great race. I will say watching two the two legends, Rusty Wallace and Dale Earnhardt doing the polish victory lap side by side, with Rusty holding a #28 flag and Dale holding a #7 flag was really amazing to watch. Gave me chills. I didn't have the pleasure of watching NASCAR back in what many on these boards call the golden era. 529. Bronco posted: 11.14.2013 - 1:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't understand how Logano and Ragan are in Tier 2 and 3 while Burton is in 4th. 530. 83andJoe posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:26 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) >(her one win was a fuel mileage race in Japan) Run on the same day as the Long Beach Grand Prix due to needing to maintain the sanctioning contract after CART imploded the previous offseason. 531. The Long Shot posted: 11.14.2013 - 7:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another gem by the one and only Brock Beard: http://brockbeard.blogspot.com/2013/11/opinion-2013-has-been-season-unlike-any.html 532. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.14.2013 - 7:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it's safe to say that the NASCAR 2013 season was a complete and total disaster in almost every sense of the word in that everything that could've gone wrong went wrong. Bill France Sr would have would have definitely rolled over in his grave if he saw the mess that was NASCAR 2013. 533. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.14.2013 - 8:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it has been a decent season. 534. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.14.2013 - 9:08 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Found this quote from Brad Keselowski in a USA Today Article: "The key to the lower series' future is to not allow Cup drivers to compete for Cup owners. I think it serves the sport in every level. But I'm not confident that will become a rule." 535. The Long Shot posted: 11.14.2013 - 10:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Brad seems to get the idea. And before anyone else says anything like, "What the hell are you talking about? That guy is the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen", remember that it's the sponsors that are telling Keselowski to drive in Nationwide, not Brad himself. The same can be said for his Truck team, considering that it's nothing more than an extension of Penske Racing (like Kyle Busch Motorsports is for Joe Gibbs Racing). 536. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.14.2013 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's the thing...going into the final race there are 3 people eligible for the championship. Only one will, but there is already merchandise that has been made for the other two, just in case. I'd like to be able to get my hands on the "championship" merchandise for the two who don't win it because those would be "Dewey beats Truman"-esque collectible items. 537. Sean posted: 11.14.2013 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jabber1990, at least Christian Fittipaldi was a good IndyCar driver that could actually run up front and win races. Danica couldn't even do that (her one win was a fuel mileage race in Japan). Fittipaldi, unlike his uncle Emerson, was not a top of the line IndyCar driver, but he was a driver that could run up front, winning two races, including a 500-mile race at Fontana in 2000. He also was the Indy 500 Rookie of the Year in 1995, when he finished second, so at least he had credentials, something Danica never really had, except for her runs at Indy." I'm afraid I must disagree with you. Christian was barely better in CART than Danica was in IRL. Yes, he won 2 races but the way he won them was a lot like Danica. At Road America in 1999, he inherited the lead when JPM, who was running away with the race, had a transmission failure. At Fontana in 2000, he beat Helio Castroneves out of the pits and just wasn't passed because the rest of that race was interrupted with crashes and on each restart, he borderline jumped to keep anyone from conceivably getting a run on him. And JPM, Kenny Brack, Max Papis, and Castroneves were the relevant drivers in that Fontana race until they all had mechanical issues (one of which caused Helio to crash near the end). Now you can say it takes skill to nurse your car home on a day like that where only 6 cars finished the race and 5 finished on the lead lap, but look at who was left: Fittipaldi, Roberto Moreno, Gil de Ferran, Casey Mears, and Adrian Fernandez. de Ferran and Fernandez were competing for the championship (and thus playing it safe) and the other three were career-mediocre drivers. Essentially any great driver who wasn't extremely conservative went out of the race, so who did Fittipaldi beat? And he didn't even DO anything to take over the lead in either race. Truthfully, it's a lot like Danica. It gets worse. Christian Fittipaldi drove for Newman-Haas for 7 seasons. His teammate from 1996-2000 was Michael Andretti, who won all 5 seasons and was still considered a perennial championship contender even though that was a relatively weak period for the team because they had Lola/Swift chassis, Ford engines, and Goodyear tires when Ganassi was dominating with the superior package (Reynard chassis, Honda engines, Firestone tires). Andretti's replacement Cristiano da Matta had a 7-win championship season in 2002 and Fittipaldi still couldn't win. He only led the most laps in a single race in his career - a race at Belle Isle, Detroit where he choked and let Andretti past on the final restart (and everyone knows how hard it is to pass at Detroit...) It doesn't add up to much. 2nd at Indy? Another attrition-heavy race, and a LOT of career-mediocre drivers have been able to finish 2nd at Indy (Kevin Cogan, Scott Goodyear - look at his career record and you'll agree with me, Jeff Ward, Vitor Meira, Marco Andretti, J.R. Hildebrand) so who cares? And I left out Roberto Guerrero (injury ruined his career at the wrong time), Davy Jones (never really had any kind of full-time ride but might have done something special considering he won the 24 Hours of Le Mans and the 24 Hours of Daytona), and Carlos Munoz (because he still has a chance of achieving something great, but still may not). Again, a LOT of drivers fought for the lead in that race and he really didn't. Yes, he had injuries, and yes, he was unlucky that Newman-Haas was struggling (but Andretti and da Matta weren't usually struggling in the other car, even with the team's relatively underpowered chassis/engine/tires, and YES, I know Andretti, Paul Tracy, and Gil de Ferran were the only drivers to win in CART with Goodyear tires during the split and Al Unser, Jr. looked REALLY bad), but I still think he should have done much more. 2 wins in 7 years for Newman-Haas is bad. Roberto Moreno pretty much matching him as a fill-in driver is also bad. Even though CART had the superior drivers in that era, I think even a number of IRL drivers definitely would have done better in that car. Fittipaldi and Bryan Herta were considered the most overrated drivers in CART in that era. On the flip side, Fittipaldi really did have potential. He did win the 1991 Formula 3000 title, beating Alex Zanardi, Damon Hill, and Heinz-Harald Frentzen, which definitely says SOMETHING. Fittipaldi had godawful rides in F1 and did pretty well with them (better than Zanardi did with similar bad rides), and considering how dominant Zanardi was in CART... So did Fittipaldi deserve a ride in CART? Certainly. But did he deserve a ride that good for that long with so little results? Probably not. Now he was a heck of a nice guy, more fun than most of his contemporaries, and even though Paul Newman and Carl Haas themselves were among the primary opponents to Tony George, Fittipaldi himself stayed out of the split politics which so few drivers back then did. And I thought him running across the track under green flag conditions at Road America in 1996 was freaking HILARIOUS (albeit ridiculously stupid), but he wasn't a good driver. I didn't do this to bash him, by the way. But hearing him being compared favorably to Danica when REALLY his career was a lot like Danica's, seems a bit wrong to me. In fairness to Christian, CART had legendary depth at the time of his peak. In 2000, the following major drivers were competing in CART (11): Gil de Ferran, Adrian Fernandez, Kenny Brack, Paul Tracy, Jimmy Vasser, Helio Castroneves, Michael Andretti, Juan Pablo Montoya, Cristiano da Matta, Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan Along with the following solid second-tier guys (11): Roberto Moreno, Patrick Carpentier, Christian, Max Papis, Oriol Servia, Alex Tagliani, Mauricio Gugelmin, Mark Blundell, Michel Jourdain, Jr., Bryan Herta (part-time), Memo Gidley (part-time) That leaves just Shinji Nakano, Tarso Marques, Luiz Garcia, Jr., Norberto Fontana, and Takuya Kurosawa (some of those part-time) as drivers who flat-out sucked (5). Now compare to Danica at Motegi in 2008. Major drivers in that race (5): Helio Castroneves, Scott Dixon, Tony Kanaan, Dan Wheldon, Ryan Hunter-Reay Solid second-tier drivers (8): Danica (I'm no fan but I think she belongs here), Ed Carpenter, Darren Manning, Ryan Briscoe, Townsend Bell, Buddy Rice, Vitor Meira, Marco Andretti (Briscoe and Rice are more accomplished than Danica, but not enough to move them up to major drivers) Flat-out sucked (5): Hideki Mutoh, Jay Howard, Roger Yasukawa, A.J. Foyt IV, Marty Roth There were 4 major drivers at Long Beach that day (Will Power, Paul Tracy, Justin Wilson, and Jimmy Vasser), but Vasser was retired and Tracy never found a full-time ride after that, so really that wouldn't have made the field much deeper (not to mention that those drivers didn't have remotely competitive cars). So yeah, Christian faced a HELL of a lot more competition in his wins than Danica did in hers, and that's why he's better. But if you look at the actual stats, and realize that Newman-Haas when Christian was there was pretty much like Rahal and Andretti when Danica was there, it's pretty close. To Christian's credit, he was such a likable guy, and that's probably why nobody in CART wanted to fire him, and he did at least help team morale, which Danica certainly didn't. I'll certainly take Christian over him, but you're overrating what he did. 538. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.14.2013 - 12:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I plan on watching the last race just for the simple reason that I expect it to be a decent race since 1) 42 of 43 drivers at this point have nothing to lose really, so they can go all out and 2) I think Homestead has found a certain magic that the other mile-and-a-halfers lack and it usually puts on a good show. However, watching Homestead for the championship battle is about like watching Full Metal Jacker after Gunnery Sergeant Hartman has been killed...pointless. 539. Sean posted: 11.14.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll correct myself. Christian was certainly a good driver, but just barely, and it's kind of hard to come up with a metric to call Christian good and Danica bad since as I said, they were pretty similar... "I'll certainly take Christian over him" Oops. HER. HER. Not trying to call Danica male here. 540. cjs3872 posted: 11.14.2013 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, what made Christian's second place finish at Indy more amazing was who he was driving for in that race, not the second place finish itself. And yes, that 1995 Indy race was one of the most bizarre ever run, a tone set by the fact that Penske's team failed to even qualify for that race with the race's two most recent champions, not to mention all the assessed penalties that race saw, including to the winner and third place finisher, not to mention the pace car fiasco at the end. But I don't buy the attrition argument where the '95 Indy race was concerned, because the Indianapolis 500s then are almost always attrition-filled (1986 and '93 being the exceptions). No Indy race was ever as attrition-marred as the 1966 race (only six cars were running at he end), and you don't see anyone complaining about that. The 1973 race might have been even worse had it not rained, as only ten cars were running when the race was flagged at the two-thirds mark, and at least two of those had been involved in the Salt Walther crash (John Martin and David Hobbs). Heck, only five other cars finished the race at Fontana Christian won, due to the blown engines that were caused by the fact that there was a tail wind on the frontstretch, causing excessive RPMs to be turned. And only six other cars finished the 1982 Indianapolis 500 besides Gordon Johncock and Rick Mears, but who remembers that about the '82 Indy race, so the attrition argument doesn't fly, and will never fly in any race in my opinion. And do we remember that no fewer than 15 cars suffered engine failures in the 1976 Daytona 500, helping to set up the Petty-Pearson finish? Of course not. Weak fields is something that can be disputed, but not races with high attrition. 541. jabber1990 posted: 11.14.2013 - 2:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd like to be able to get my hands on the "championship" merchandise for the two who don't win it because those would be "Dewey beats Truman"-esque collectible items." my moms a travel agent, ill ask her what a flight to Romania, Seirra-Leone, or anywhere in central Africa will cost on Monday "However, watching Homestead for the championship battle is about like watching Full Metal Jacker after Gunnery Sergeant Hartman has been killed...pointless." ...he dies? i'm Kidding, I saw it in the TMC at Fort Benning 542. jabber1990 posted: 11.14.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I plan on watching the last race just for the simple reason that I expect it to be a decent race since 1) 42 of 43 drivers at this point have nothing to lose really, so they can go all out and 2) I think Homestead has found a certain magic that the other mile-and-a-halfers lack and it usually puts on a good show." yay, somebody who isn't all "doom and Gloom" that's one reason I still follow NASCAR, I don't know who will win the next race, its still a mystery (even though depdending on the track we have a good guess, but we've been wrong before (sometimes about the same races)) so even after Jimmie wins the title on Sunday i'll still be excited about the 2014 season! 543. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The '93 Hooters 500 was a damn good race. Obviously having to follow the '92 race there, The Greatest Race Ever may dilute it to some folks, but it was really good. I love how the announcers made a big deal about Dale only needing to finish 34th so he'd be taking it easy for first half of the race. Son on Lap 2 he is making a 3 wide pass in a clump of traffic, leading to the immortal Ned Jarrett call "The man can't help it, he's got to race". When taken in context, that is one of my top Earnhardt moments ever. 544. 18fan posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dario Franchitti has announced his retirement from racing due to the injuries he suffered at Houston. 545. 18fan posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 1993 Hooters 500 was a very good race on a very treacherous racetrack. There were a bunch of crashes where drivers spun on their own and many top drivers of the era were involved in accidents, including Schrader, Jeff Gordon, Ernie Irvan, Harry Gant, and Geoff Bodine. Darrell Waltrip tried to steal the race on fuel mileage but Rusty (who had the dominant car in Penske's final race with Pontiac) passed him with a few laps to go and Ricky Rudd, in his final race for Hendrick, passed Darrell for 2nd on the last lap. That year was maybe the most balanced ever in terms of wins by manufacturers with 11 by Pontiacs, 10 by Fords, and 9 by Chevrolet with Chevy winning the manufacturers championship. 546. David posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dario Franchitti has announced his retirement from racing due to the injuries he suffered at Houston." I feel terrible for Dario. My jaw literally dropped when I read that. 547. cjs3872 posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, and one thing often forgotten about that race at Atlanta to close the 1993 season is how close another racing legend came to winning that race. Darrell Waltrip came within just a few laps of winning that race on a fuel gamble, which was miraculous, considering he went an astonishing 78 laps on his final tank of gas. That means he went a staggering 118.716 miles on one tank of gas (remember the track then was 1.522 miles in length). Remember that they were not using restrictor plates, which made Waltrip's run to win, which came up short (he finished third) that much more amazing. There would only be a handful of races left in Waltrip's career where he came close to winning. I know it won't happen, but wouldn't it be something if Mark Martin repeats what he did at Michigan in August, and at least is a threat to win his final race. Very few legends are competitive in their final race, one of whom was Cale Yarborough, who was 10th in his final race, the 1988 season finale at Atlanta. I'd like to see Mark at least finish in the top ten. And one thing we'll almost certainly see is NASCAR have one pace lap with Martin and Ken Schrader at the front of the field. After all, they did that with Richard Petty, Darrell Waltrip, and Dave Marcis at the end of their careers, and I think they gave Ricky Rudd and Rusty Wallace the same treatment in their final race to show their respect to those racing icons. 548. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dario Franchitti has announced his retirement from racing due to the injuries he suffered at Houston." I am quite surprised by this, but it's probably the best for him. He's been through some scary moments in his career (Kentucky and Michigan 2007, Talladega 2008, Houston 2013) and I think he just wants to call it quits before something worse happens. Also, Dario has been such a different driver since the abandoned 2011 Las Vegas race, when his close friend Dan Wheldon was killed. He seems uncomfortable in these DW12s and other than his 2012 Indy 500 win (the last of his career), he hasn't been able to win like he did before that. Plus, he's pretty old for an IndyCar driver (most are retired by 40 years old). 549. murb posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While I definitely hate to see Dario have to retire because of that crash, I hope he can look back and see that he's had an excellent career over in IndyCar. Like him or not, he'll definitely be remembered as one of the greatest open wheel drivers ever (he's like Jimmie - he's not THE best, but he's one of the best). I wish him well in his retirement. 550. cjs3872 posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well David, remember that Dario had been in a number of terrible crashes a few years ago, which led to his short-lived NASCAR attempt. Then he got hurt at Talladega in a Nationwide Series race, which along with sponsorship problems ended Franchitti's NASCAR career. And of course, then there was Dan Wheldon's fatal crash months after his 2011 Indy victory, and finally the crash at Houston that has apparently ended his career. And speaking of Wheldon's fatal crash, does anyone else get the feeling that the winners of the biggest races from 2011 seem to be cursed? Wheldon gets killed at Las Vegas, and Trevor Bayne, that year's Daytona 500 champion, gets sick just a couple of months after that victory, and is now diagnosed with MS. And it's too bad for Franchitti, because I think he would have made for an excellent addition to the most sacred group in all of motorsports, the 4-time Indianapolis 500 winners club, which I think he could have joined and become it's first non-American member. I'm not sure Helio Castroneves would be as great a representative as Francitti would have been because of the lackof championships, though he'd certainly make an excellent addition to the club if he can make it. 551. Sean posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs, my point about Christian Fittipaldi is that he didn't really fight for either of those wins. He inherited them by default. Johncock/Mears isn't a good argument because they actually fought hard for the 1982 Indy win. Christian backed into the 1995 Indy 500 2nd place finish (and didn't really battle for the win much), backed into the 1999 Road America win (and battled with nobody after inheriting the lead), and backed into the 2000 Fontana win (and battled with nobody after inheriting the lead). I see little difference between those kind of wins and Danica's Motegi win except that the CART fields back then were deeper. I'm not surprised about Dario. I know Ashley Judd urged him to retire in 2007 after his airborne flips at Kentucky and Michigan (neither of which even injured him), but they have since separated. Furthermore, he seemed to be fading as a weekly threat and Charlie Kimball looked faster than him all season. This reminds me of Kenny Brack at Texas in 2003. That was a more severe injury, but it was a similar circumstance. Brack had already seemed to be fading before being injured and probably felt he would no longer have it if he came back, as Dario may also feel. Dario probably felt he had already accomplished everything and it was probably the correct decision to retire when he did. I don't think he had many wins left in him, injury or not. I think it was a good decision and I don't see what's sad about it. Sad would be if he aggravated those injuries further. I admit in the last few years I have been unable to stand Dario, but objectively, independent of that, I think he made the right decision for his own health. Maybe Justin Wilson is finally going to get the lucky break he's deserved for a decade (he's been one of the top five drivers for almost the entire last decade but has been driving garbage, and he would have to be the overwhelming favorite for the 2nd Target car...) 552. murb posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I plan on watching the last race just for the simple reason that I expect it to be a decent race since 1) 42 of 43 drivers at this point have nothing to lose really, so they can go all out and 2) I think Homestead has found a certain magic that the other mile-and-a-halfers lack and it usually puts on a good show." Yeah, exactly. I'll be watching it for the same reasons. Homestead is a damn good track compared to the other cookie cutters. It'll be best to just watch the actual race and try as hard as possible to ignore this Three Stooges points battle. 553. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Dario Franchitti has announced his retirement from racing due to the injuries he suffered at Houston." Wow. Can't say I follow IndyCar too closely, but even I know that is HUGE. 554. David posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think he made the right decision for his own health." It wasn't his own decision, according to sources. The doctors told him he could not race anymore. 555. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just hate to hear that news about Dario, but it's not surprising. I've never been a fan of him on the track, but every interview I've ever seen of him he seemed like a genuinely nice guy and very appreciative of every opportunity he got, something that not every driver has. I didn't like him as a driver, but his presence at the track will be missed. Now, since Ganassi had already announced a full-time sponsor for Tony Kanaan (some sort of energy drink I believe), will they run two Target cars next year? If they do, who will they bring on as a new driver? Tagliani subbed at Fontana, but he's 39 years old, just 1 year younger than Dario, and Dario was likely just a year of two away from retirement anyway. Simon Pagenaud just lost HP sponsorship, if Schmidt-Peterson Racing cannot find a replacement, could Ganassi sign Pagenaud? Or maybe an IndyLights driver like Sage Karam or Jack Hawksworth? 556. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Very few legends are competitive in their final race, one of whom was Cale Yarborough, who was 10th in his final race, the 1988 season finale at Atlanta. I'd like to see Mark at least finish in the top ten." Rusty Wallace also had a very good run in his final race (and season for that matter), bringing home the #2 Miller Lite Dodge in 13th place and closing the 2005 season out 7th in points. 557. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^8th in points. My apologies. 558. David posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I think it was a good decision and I don't see what's sad about it" "Sad" may not be the correct word, but it is too bad to see his career end so unceremoniously. 559. Sean posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Now, since Ganassi had already announced a full-time sponsor for Tony Kanaan (some sort of energy drink I believe), will they run two Target cars next year? If they do, who will they bring on as a new driver?" They've run two Target cars every year since 1995, so I don't expect Target would drop its sponsorship, but you never know since Hewlett-Packard and GoDaddy bolted due to low ratings. Justin Wilson deserves it. Simon Pagenaud would also deserve it. Sage Karam deserves a ride and I want to see him in 2014, but there's no way I'd take him over Wilson or Pagenaud. I really hope it's not Alex Tagliani or J.R. Hildebrand... 560. Sean posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Kanaan's sponsor is NTT Data, who sponsored Ryan Briscoe in the Indy 500 last year... The car number is going to remain #8, as KV Racing decided to keep car #11 for Sebastien Bourdais... I can understand that. That's the team that won Indy, after all and Kanaan left them rather unceremoniously... 561. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Goddamnit, Franchitti is done. Not done for a few months, not done for a year, DONE. This is the worst racing season EVER. Yes there have been years with more tragedies, but from a combination of horrible racing, a lack of feel good stories, and a whole heaping pile of feel like shit stories, this season SUCKED. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. Damn. The Indy 500 this year was the highlight by a mile. EPIC racing and TK breaking through. 562. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jean Claude Van Cjs, Darrell's economy run to the end at Atlanta in '93 would be more amazing if it weren't for the fact he was cheating. Darrell Waltrip never ran a legal car in his life. 563. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Indy 500 this year was the highlight by a mile. EPIC racing and TK breaking through." Definitely. All bias aside (I'm a huge Kanaan fan), that race currently has to be the best race of this decade so far. 564. Sean posted: 11.14.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Considering Jeff Krosnoff was killed in a very similar airborne street course crash at 1996 in Toronto, I'd say Dario was lucky... I'm happy he's alive and he had nothing left to prove... Better to go out still competitive than to go out the way Ernie Irvan did after a 3rd bad crash... 565. David posted: 11.14.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The word "unceremoniously" is used two different times within the space of three comments. I think that's a first. :) 566. murb posted: 11.14.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think my choice for Dario's replacement would be Simon Pagenaud. Justin Wilson or even Josef Newgarden would be awesome too, but I think Pagenaud could be a legit championship contender in that car considering the way he's run in the 77. 567. Schroeder51 posted: 11.14.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, this has been a really rotten week in racing. First the shocking revelation that Trevor Bayne is suffering from MS, and now Dario's career is over due to his crash injuries. Damn, that REALLY sucks. Never liked Dario very much, but it's hard to deny that he was one of the top Indy Car drivers over the past decade, and it's a shame his career has to end on such an ugly note. But it's probably for the best as he's already had several bad crashes throughout his career (he broke his leg in a crash in Talladega during his brief tenure in NASCAR) and it's probably for the best that he calls it a career rather than risk another serious crash and getting hurt even worse. I'd like to see Pagenaud get a shot at driving for Ganassi myself; he's really been impressive driving the #77. He could have entered the finale at Fontana with a shot at the championship if not for a mechanical DNF in the season opener at St. Petersburg. Justin Wilson would be a good choice too. We'll just have to see who (if anyone) gets Dario's ride... 568. Schroeder51 posted: 11.14.2013 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let me correct myself-Dario broke his ankle in the Talladega crash, not his leg. 569. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.14.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Definitely. All bias aside (I'm a huge Kanaan fan), that race currently has to be the best race of this decade so far." It very well could be. To have the racing they had for 500 miles on their biggest stage, and the feel good win for TK breaking through finally. Obviously the 2003 Spring Darlington race is up there with a great race, epic finish, and feel good story of likeable Ricky Craven on his second NASCAR life with his underfunded single car effort on one of NASCAR's two biggest stages (IMS will always be open wheel's stage). But it was a 400 mile race and not the biggest race at that track that year as that was the final year of the Labor Day Southern 500 as well as a Spring Darlington race. 570. Eric posted: 11.14.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dario Franchitti retiring isn't a shock based on the injuries he had. It is a shame how he's leaving Indycar because he didn't have a chase to do a farewell tour like Mario Andretti did or retire on his own power. Dario was a great driver in his prime and was one of the best Indycar drivers of the 2000's. I do agree it best that Dario for Dario to retire because the scary crashes he had in his career besides the fact he hasn't been the same driver in the 2011 season ended because of age, Wheldon's death, and the new car. I mentioned Dario's age because Indycar is a younger drivers racing series compare to NASCAR. NASCAR drivers are capable of being in their prime longer than Indycar drivers bases what happened to Indycar. I am wondering who will Chip put into Dario's ride now. 571. Eric posted: 11.14.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since no one mentioned it. NASCAR Hall of Fame officials has announced that the 2013 cup Champion will have a vote for who will get inducted in the 2015 NASCAR Hall of Fame. It also was announced that there will be significant changes to the process and eligibility rules will be revealed during Champions Week in Las Vegas next month. 572. David posted: 11.14.2013 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Obviously the 2003 Spring Darlington race is up there" Except for the fact that it wasn't in this decade. 573. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.14.2013 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I feel for Trevor and Dario after the news of this week. Obviously there were a few feel good stories this year, Bubba Wallace winning Martinsville, David and David at Tally, Crafton winning the Truck title, Mark Martin almost stealing a win in his final race with MWR at Michigan, Ryan Blaney's improvement, Eldora, a jaw-dropping Indy 500, etc. However, the other events were downright dreadful... that is how I will remember the 2013 year in racing. I will watch Homestead, not for Jimmie, but for Kenny and Mark and Jeff Burton. Hopefully, the Nationwide Series Championship ends in a tie and Sam gets it by virtue of the Vegas win. 574. murb posted: 11.14.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt Crafton will be back to defend his championship with ThorSport in Trucks next year, and Ryan Blaney will also return to Trucks with BKR. 575. Jim Davis posted: 11.14.2013 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It also looks like Johanna Long will not be back in the 70 car with ML Motorsports next year. I hope she lands a decent *full-time* ride somewhere. 576. ch posted: 11.14.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Changes: 9 - DeWalt / Stanley Tools (Same for Talladega / Martinsville) 24 - Axalta Coating Systems 33 - Circle Sport 40 - Circle Sport 87 - Royal Teak Collection (no 's') 95 - Surrender the Sponsor (Skull scheme) 577. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.14.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Duh! Shoulda read the fine print lol. 578. cjs3872 posted: 11.14.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Kanaan, Eric. Unless I'm missing something, Ganassi's already decided to put Tony Kanaan in Franchitti's car, though the number changes from 10 to 8 (probably Kanaan's final position in the points this year, as is done in IndyCar racing). If Ganassi's running three cars next year, his drivers are going to be Kanaan, IndyCar champion Scott Dixon, and Charlie Kimball. I've not heard anything about Ganassi running a fourth car in IndyCar next year. And also, having the reigning NASCAR champion on the Hall of Fame voting panel is a terrible idea, because he would likely have very little, if any knowledge of the careers of those on the ballot. And there is also the possibility of cronyism. Consider the fact that Rick Hendrick and Richard Childress are both on the ballot, and each has a driver that could win the title, including Jimmie Johnson, the likely champion, and that one vote could push someone close to the champion over the top for induction, not that Hendrick or Childress would be and deserving, because they both are certainly Hall of fame caliber car owners. The problem here is the potential cronyism involved for the reigning champion to vote his own car owner into the Hall of Fame in a potential vote that would be anything but impartial. And DSFF, we don't know Darrell Waltrip was cheating in that Atlanta race in 1993, hen he ran 78 laps on one tank of fuel. Darrell was always among the best at getting the best fuel mileage, and not all of them had to be with an oversized tank. Sure he ran cars throughout his career that were illegal, but virtually every great driver is guilty of that at some point in their careers. 579. Bronco posted: 11.14.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2013 was a very bad year for motorsport as far as driver/fan health and safety is concerned. The year started off with the awful crash at the finish of the Daytona Nationwide race which injured several spectators, then there was Hamlin injuring his back at Fontana. There was Leffler's shocking death in June at a sprint car race, and Stewart's broken leg at another sprint car race in August. Then there was Truex breaking his wrist at a crash in the Bristol night race, and Labonte breaking his ribs away from the track. In October Vickers sat out the rest of the season because of blood clot issues (again), and then Bayne announced his MS diagnosis and Franchitti retires, all in the same week. Very bad year indeed. 580. Schroeder51 posted: 11.14.2013 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't forget Allen Simonsen's death in the 24 hours of Le Mans and Dick Trickle's suicide. It's mind boggling to think of all the awful things that have happened in the world of motorsports. There have been positives too, for sure, but it's so hard to look at this past year in racing positively when so many bad things have happened. It's been a while since we've seen a year with so many sad or unfortunate things going on in the world of racing. I think I speak for us all when I say that I really hope 2014 will be a better, happier, much more positive season of racing than this past one has been. 581. Sean posted: 11.14.2013 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Unless I'm missing something, Ganassi's already decided to put Tony Kanaan in Franchitti's car" Ganassi was planning on running four cars for 2014. #8 NTT Data (Kanaan), #9 Target (maybe #1 if Dixon takes the honorary champion's #1), #10 Target (?), and #83 Novo Nordisk (Kimball). So unless Target drops to one car Ganassi will be running four cars and Franchitti will be replaced, not by Kanaan or Kimball. "8 (probably Kanaan's final position in the points this year, as is done in IndyCar racing)." Nope. Kanaan finished 11th in points this year. While CART assigned the car numbers according to points finishes, the IRL never did except allowing the championship team to take #1, which the championship teams usually declined. As for the 4th Ganassi car, Justin Wilson is by far and away the best IndyCar driver not under contract, but at the moment he's recovering from injuries at Fontana. There are a few other drivers who may be superior (Sebastien Bourdais, Simon Pagenaud) but Ganassi would have to buy those drivers out of their contracts. Probably whoever Ganassi wants Ganassi will get though. Having said that, Pagenaud lost his sponsorship from Hewlett-Packard so Sam Schmidt may let him go if Ganassi comes calling. Alex Tagliani has a shot because he filled in for Dario at Fontana, but I hope not. Wilson seems like the overwhelming favorite to me because he is the best driver available (I think he is better than Pagenaud, whom I think has been in better equipment) and because Ganassi would not have to buy him out of a contract since he is still a free agent. I'm also hoping for Wilson because he hasn't had a shot in really good equipment yet and may not have many years left himself, despite overachieving for years (he was 5th at Indy this year, leading all the Hondas, and WAY ahead of all the Ganassi cars despite driving for the extremely underfunded Dale Coyne operation...) and Wilson has had many bad breaks over the years (I thought he deserved the part-time Penske ride in 2009 as a fill-in for Helio Castroneves during his tax evasion trial over Power...I guess I was wrong since Power won more than I think Wilson would have, but I think Wilson would have been more likely to win an Indy 500 or a title...) If they choose a younger driver, I guess it's between Josef Newgarden, Simona de Silvestro, or Sage Karam. I'd take any of those drivers over Tagliani. 582. Eric posted: 11.14.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) cjs3872, You are missing something unless you know something about Target's future on the Indycar side for Chip Ganassi that I don't know. Tony Kanaan in the car 8 doesn't have Dario's Sponsor Target. Tony Kanaan has a multi-year deal with TNT Energy drink as a sponsor. That means Target doesn't sponsor a car for the Indy Car side of Chip Ganassi Racing. Lets remember that Target and Chip Ganassi has a relationship in open wheel dating back to Chip's days as an owner in CART. I remembered Michael Andretti being sponsored by Target when Michael drove for Chip in 1994. 583. cjs3872 posted: 11.14.2013 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, Eric, Ganassi's association with Target goes back even further than you say it does, because Target was the sponsor when Eddie Cheever drove for him from 1991-'92, and when Arie Luyendyk drove for him from 1992-'93. And I wasn't aware that signing Kanaan was for a potential fourth car, so apparently I was missing something. As for who would fill Franchitti's seat, Ganassi probably wants three things. First, he wants a driver that can run up front anywhere, and secondly, he wants a driver that can win the Indianapolis 500, and he would also like a younger driver. Justin Wilson would be a good candidate, though he's in his mid-30s, and with Dixon and Kanaan also getting up there in years, he's going to want to go with a younger driver, which likely also leaves Tagliani out of the hunt. We also figure that he likely won't go after an American driver, since Americans are thought by the IndyCar community, as a whole, to be inferior drivers to the Eurpoeans and Brazilians. That's also why Penske almost never looks at American drivers. Remember that American drivers have won just two of the last 15 Indianapolis 500s (Buddy Rice in 2004 and Sam Hornish, Jr. in 2006). That likely knocks drivers like Newgarden, Karam, and any other Americans out of the hunt. If I had to guess, Simon Pagenaud might be the favorite for Franchitti's ride next year, since Pagenaud won't turn 30 until May of next year. But Ganassi may go with someone completely off the radar, as he's been known to do in both IndyCar and NASCAR. 584. Jim Davis posted: 11.14.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sam Hornish does not as yet have a ride for 2014. Would Ganassi be interested in Hornish and would Hornish consider a return ti Indycar? 585. Eric posted: 11.14.2013 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) cjs3872, Cronyism could be worse next year than you mentioned for a current driver being a NASCAR Hall of Fame voter. Lets say Randy Dorton and Ray Evernham gets added to the NASCAR Hall of Fame Ballot and we know Jimmie would vote for both of them besides Rick Hendrick. The same thing is true if Harry Hyde is one the ballot since Rick Hendrick would be informing Jimmie the importance Harry Hyde was to Hendrick Motorsports. The fact is without Geoff Bodine winning at Martinsville with Harry Hyde as the crew chief, Hendrick Motorsports wouldn't exist today. The other thing to look at is if a Cup champion had an issue with a past driver on the ballot. Lets say Ricky Rudd is on the ballot with Harvick being cup champion and that means Kevin isn't likely like to vote for Rudd. Remember Kevin threw a Han's device at Rudd at the 2003 Rock & Roll 400. 586. Anonymous posted: 11.14.2013 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric Mcclure in the hospital again... Come on Eric you gave it a good run had some decent results, but its time to hang it up for the sake of your beautiful daughters. 587. Eric posted: 11.14.2013 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jim Davis, It really depends on what Chip is looking for as a driver. I am saying that because although Sam has 3 Indycar Titles, he's not what I call a great Championship threat today's Indycar. Sam was a great oval driver in Indycar, but Road Course/street Courses wasn't Sam's strong suit as a driver and is why he left Indy car for NASCAR to begin with. 588. Sean posted: 11.14.2013 - 11:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sam Hornish does not as yet have a ride for 2014. Would Ganassi be interested in Hornish and would Hornish consider a return to Indycar?" That would be hilarious since Penske just signed Montoya out from under Ganassi's nose, but that won't happen. Ganassi fired Dan Wheldon after 2008 because he wasn't good enough on road courses and Hornish was even worse... If it's a Sam, it will be Sam Bird, who just finished 2nd in this year's GP2 championship but doesn't seem like he's going to be able to find an F1 ride and has expressed interest in IndyCar... And Ganassi certainly has a history of unexpectedly signing hot Formula One prospects to his team (JPM, Bruno Junqueira, Nicolas Minassian, Ryan Briscoe) or washouts (Alex Zanardi)... Disagree with cjs that Penske and Ganassi don't give American drivers a chance. Penske gave A.J. Allmendinger an unexpected chance in IndyCar last season after firing him in Cup. Unfortunately, outside of Allmendinger's Indy 500 drive, his other results were pretty dreadful. Ganassi signed Graham Rahal and Charlie Kimball in 2011 (yes, they were both essentially ride-buyers...Rahal turned out to be worse than I thought he'd be and Kimball turned out to be better). But I wouldn't completely rule out Ganassi choosing an American driver... IndyCar is much more today than Europeans and Brazilians. The hotbeds of late seem to be Australia/New Zealand (Will Power, Scott Dixon, and Ryan Briscoe, with Matthew Brabham coming up) and Colombia (JPM, Carlos Munoz, Sebastian Saavedra - okay, he sucks but still, with Gabby Chaves possibly coming up). I like the internationalism of the series and it's more diverse than 2000 CART where half the field seemed to be Brazilian. Kanaan and Castroneves are the only Brazilians left with no hot prospects on the horizon. I'd say IndyCar today is more diverse in nationality than CART ever was, and I greatly approve. A lot of people are speculating Sergio Perez, who just got fired from the McLaren F1 team and replaced by Kevin Magnussen (the son of recent Cup road course ringer Jan Magnussen) since he has heavy multi-million dollar personal sponsorship from Carlos Slim, the richest man in Mexico who owns Telmex, which is currently sponsoring Ganassi's sports car team... And Perez was marginally more successful in F1 than Zanardi was, but eh, that would definitely disappoint me, although he'd probably do pretty well since he does seem to have some speed in F1. 589. Bronco posted: 11.15.2013 - 1:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Forget to mention, but Michael Annett broke his sternum in the February Daytona Nationwide race, the same one where fans were injured. And I believe Eric McClure missed some races too because of some sickness. 590. Paul posted: 11.15.2013 - 2:09 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "a lack of feel good stories" Huh? Off the top of my head, here are all the "feel good stories" that have taken place this racing season: - Two surprise Cup Talladega winners, David Ragan and Jamie McMurray. Ragan did so after a push from his FRONT ROW MOTORSPORTS teammate David Gilliland (resulting in a miraculous 1-2 finish), and McMurray won "Jimmie Johnson-style" by getting out front in the closing stages as the rest of the field ran single-file behind him. - The single-car Furniture Row Racing team likely going to finish in the top ten in Sprint Cup points with Kurt Busch after zero top-20 points finishes up to this point in that organization's history. - Martin Truex, Jr. winning his first Cup race in over six years at Sonoma. And after the wrist injury caused by a crash at Bristol and the BS that ensued at and following the Richmond race, he gets to jump ship to FRR as his soon-to-be-former team is almost left in shambles (Entire #56 team splits, Rodney Childers gone, Brian Vickers suffers another ailment, etc.). Karma certainly came to collect. - Speaking of Vickers, he made his return to victory lane at Loudon earlier this year in his part-time Cup schedule by passing Tony Stewart with 16 laps to go. It was Vickers' first NASCAR win since Michigan in August 2009, and first win since missing most of the 2010 season due to blood clots in his legs and around his lungs. - AJ Allmendinger bouncing back from his suspension last season by running very competitively in the Indianapolis 500, winning in both of his Nationwide starts, and performing admirably in his limited Cup appearances that ended up rewarding him with a return to full-time Cup competition next season with JTG Daugherty Racing. - Trevor Bayne getting his first Nationwide win in over 1.5 years and Ford's 200th Nationwide win overall just five days after getting married. - Ryan Blaney winning the Nationwide race at Kentucky, despite Discount Tire's insistence on primarily using Cup drivers in the Nationwide Series. - After five years of cutting his teeth in the Nationwide Series, Justin Allgaier finally gets the chance to go Cup racing, and will almost for certain be racing full-time in Cup next season for the #51 team. - Eric McClure runs very competitively and earns his first Nationwide top ten finish at Daytona after six years of mediocrity. - After losing his ride at JR Motorsports (while his out-performed teammate gets to go Cup racing full-time instead), Cole Whitt nets a part-time ride with TriStar Motorsports and records as many top ten finishes (3) as his full-time teammates (Bliss, McClure, Green) combined. - Bubba Wallace becoming the first African American to win a NASCAR race in one of the three major series in 50 years by winning the Truck race at Martinsville. - Just two weeks later, his 17-year old teammate Erik Jones becomes the youngest winner in Truck Series history in a race that would have been "feel good" either way (Ross Chastain finished 2nd in a part-time ride). - After 13 seasons, Matt Crafton will add his name to the list of champions on the Truck Series circuit after a season that was nothing short of being a model of consistency. - Takuma Sato getting his first career IndyCar victory, as well as A.J. Foyt's first win as an owner in 11 years at Long Beach. - In the twilight of his career, Tony Kanaan joins an elite class that includes his good friends Franchitti, Wheldon (RIP), Dixon, and Castroneves by winning the Indianapolis 500 in his 12th attempt. - After choosing to only compete on road courses/street circuits this season after several vicious crashes that turned him away from the ovals, Mike Conway wins his 2nd IndyCar race at Belle Isle after leading a race-high 47 laps. - James Hinchcliffe, Simon Pagenaud, and Charlie Kimball each become first-time winners in the IndyCar Series this season. - 51-year old Frank Kimmel wins his first ARCA championship in six years, bringing his career total up to 10 titles, and in a season in which he also became the all-time wins leader in ARCA history. - 58-year old Ken Schrader proved he can still run competitively by winning twice and recording 4 top five finishes in four ARCA starts, his first time racing in the series in three years. - While he may never shake off the "John Wrecks Weekly" moniker that he was dubiously named after his first few NASCAR seasons, John Wes Townley can at least call himself a winner at the famed Daytona International Speedway, doing so in the ARCA season opener after holding off some kid named Kyle Larson for the win. I get that the 2013 racing season has been a disappointment amongst many fans, but to go as far as to say that there have been no "feel good stories" this season is preposterous. I named off a bunch of examples, but the one that I'm sure everyone here remembers was the 1-2 finish at Talladega between FRM teammates Ragan and Gilliland. Even if that was the only "feel good story" in all of racing in 2013, that finish alone almost makes up for all the boring/predictable races that have taken place this season. 591. Paul posted: 11.15.2013 - 2:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Would Ganassi be interested in Hornish and would Hornish consider a return ti Indycar?" From what I've heard, Hornish isn't interested in returning to IndyCar. But then again, he recently stated that he wants to drive for a team that can regularly run inside the top ten, and joining Ganassi's IndyCar team might be his best chance at a surefire top ten ride. Also, since you brought this possibility up, wouldn't it be strange to see Sam Hornish, Jr. (a long-tenured Penske driver) driving for Ganassi, while Juan Pablo Montoya (a long-tenured Ganassi driver) driving for Penske next season in IndyCar? Knowing that even one of those drivers will be driving for the other team is odd enough for me. 592. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.15.2013 - 6:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darrell's history of running hilariously illegal cars + 118 miles on one tank of fuel at Atlanta = very high probability of being illegal 593. Ryan posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If were talking good races of 2013 don't forget the indycar race at Brazil. Hinch vs. Sato was epic 594. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.15.2013 - 10:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't forget, Indy produced TWO insane finishes this year. In the Indy Light series we did get an impressive four wide shot for the lead. YOU DON'T GET MUCH BETTER THEN THAT! 595. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 11.15.2013 - 10:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In two cases of WTF! news, Michael Annett will move up to Sprint Cup full-time in 2014 for Tommy Baldwin Racing, running for rookie of the year. Family sponsor Pilot Travel Centers will fund him. And RAB Racing has fired Alex Bowman!? and replaced him with Blake Koch!? Yeah, that makes sense. 596. BluesTravelerFan posted: 11.15.2013 - 10:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know a lot of y'all (includin' me) are feelin' a bit down about ol' Jimmie probably wrapping up the title, so I will say something to try to cheer y'all up! According to a survey done by dating site Cupid.com of over 2,000 men and women, Southern accents are the sexiest accent in North America, with 45 % of men and 28 % of women (both the highest percentages among the genders) saying they found it most appealing. Score one for us Southerners! No disrespect to all of you guys not from the south obviously, and apologies if this offended anyone, I just wanted to lighten the mood some. 597. The Long Shot posted: 11.15.2013 - 12:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Michael Annett will move up to Sprint Cup full-time in 2014 for Tommy Baldwin Racing, running for rookie of the year. Family sponsor Pilot Travel Centers will fund him." In fairness to Annett, this was probably the best move that anybody could make. Now Richard Petty Motorsports can put Ryan Truex in that #43 while Corey LaJoie runs in the new full-time #9, or vice versa. As for Annett, he gets a chance to see what Sprint Cup racing is like (albeit a bit prematurely, in my opinion), and TBR gets rid of one of Blaney or Yeley (I would hazard a guess at Yeley, as he has severely underwhelmed in that #36 this year) to make room for him. I don't have a major issue with this deal. "And RAB Racing has fired Alex Bowman!? and replaced him with Blake Koch!? Yeah, that makes sense." Here's hoping Bowman gets a good ride. Perhaps Joe Gibbs Racing will give him a look if they decide to keep Bubba Wallace in Truck for another year. 598. cjs3872 posted: 11.15.2013 - 12:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Darrell Waltrip's history of running cars that didn't conform to the regulations has more to do with the teams he drove for than with Waltrip himself. Remember that he drove for DiGard and Junior Johnson, the two biggest offenders during that period, and both organizations cheated with multiple drivers, not just Waltrip. And @595, if the reports of Bowman's release from RAB Racing are true, that might be the single biggest break of Bowman's career, because that team would never have allowed him to compete in the Nationwide Series the way I think he can. Remember that I had said earlier this year that the best thing Bowman could do is to get away from that team because that team would only ruin his career. The fact that he won two poles with that junkyard team, both at Texas, and often qualified near the front, but fell back when they had to make pit stops, is all you needed to know about the incompetence of that group. This may actually be the biggest break of Bowman's career. 599. cjs3872 posted: 11.15.2013 - 12:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And The Long Shot, Michael Annett will drive the #7 car next year, as he's bringing his sponsor with him. Since neither of TBR's cars (7 or 36) have been sponsored fully, I suspect that means that TBR may be cutting down from two cars to one for next year, though nothing official to that end has been announced. But this marks the first sponsor that TBR's had since Jeremy Mayfield drove for that team several years ago. And I agree that Yeley's been terrible in the #36 car, except for his top ten in the Daytona 500, but that was expected. After all, Yeley was a major flop in the #18 car in the two years he drove it, so if he couldn't even find the front with a compass in one of the sport's premier cars, what makes anyone think he'd do anything in the #36 car? 600. The Long Shot posted: 11.15.2013 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But this marks the first sponsor that TBR's had since Jeremy Mayfield drove for that team several years ago." Mayfield never drove for TBR. The last time that the team had a sponsor was when Golden Corral was sponsoring the #36 for the superspeedway races in 2012, after having previously sponsored the team for most of the season in 2011. 601. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 11.15.2013 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But this marks the first sponsor that TBR's had since Jeremy Mayfield drove for that team several years ago." Not true at all. First, Jeremy Mayfield never raced for TBR, second, TBR has had a variety of sponors, including many this season, including Golden Corral, Accell Construction, United Mining Equipement, Sany, and Florida Lottery. 602. Schroeder51 posted: 11.15.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but when Mayfield drove the #36, I'm pretty sure it was a Bill Davis Racing team then, not a TBR team. 603. cjs3872 posted: 11.15.2013 - 12:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought when Jeremy Mayfield drove the #36 car, it was a TBR car, but it might have been a Bill Davis car. If so, it's an easy mistake, since TBR's always run the #36 car since it's inception. And I thought that Golden Corral was only a partial sponsor when they had it. That's why I was thinking that the sponsor that Michael Annett was bringing with him to TBR was their first full sponsor. 604. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.15.2013 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jean Claude Van Cjs, don't forget to add the biggest violators in the list of "owners Darrell drove for": Hendrick Motorsports. 605. cjs3872 posted: 11.15.2013 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But DSFF, Hendrick Motorsports did not have that kind of reputation in the years Darrell drove for them (1987-90). It wasn't until after he left that HMS began to gain the negative reputation that you and others have of them. Granted, Hendrick's first two crew chiefs, Harry Hyde and Gary Nelson, pushed the envelope as far as anyone, and Waltrip even worked with Nelson when both were at DiGard (though Nelson was never his crew chief there), but the reputation of HMS as a team that cheats didn't come until after Darrell left following the 1990 season. 606. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 11.15.2013 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I thought that Golden Corral was only a partial sponsor when they had it. That's why I was thinking that the sponsor that Michael Annett was bringing with him to TBR was their first full sponsor." Oh, full sponsor, I thought you mean that Annett would be bringing TBR their first sponsor period. In that case, yes, Pilot Flying J Travel Centers will be TBR's first full-season sponsor. I'm interested to see how he'll do with RCR Engines, I'm guessing he'll be a 25th-35th driver for at least the first half of the season, and hopefully improve as the season goes on. One thing I'm wondering though, since Annett has never made a cup start before (and is not entered this week) will he be allowed to race in the Daytona 500? Or would Nascar approve him based off his 162 career NNS starts and allow him to race daytona without having raced on a smaller track in cup first? 607. Scott B posted: 11.15.2013 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Annett has already run Daytona in both the ARCA and Nationwide series, so approval for the 2014 500 will be just a formality. 608. Sean posted: 11.15.2013 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeremy Mayfield's #36 car was sponsored by "OTC 360" hence the #36. It had nothing to do with Tommy Baldwin. 609. Sean posted: 11.15.2013 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How could a driver with 162 Nationwide starts NOT be worthy of a Cup license? Now worthy of having a Cup license and worthy of having a full-time Cup ride are two different things... 610. Scott B posted: 11.15.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #599 cjs- I think TBR will still run a second car in most if not all events, due to the small entry fields. That second car would only run the full distance when it has a sponsor, though, and park when it doesn't. If that's true, I'd expect several drivers to share duties in it. Blaney and Yeley could both still be in the mix, as well as anyone else who can bring money for a race or two. 611. Scott B posted: 11.15.2013 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FWIW I think it's a good move by Annett to get away from the RPM Nationwide ride, they haven't exactly shown much of a commitment to making him their #1 development driver. Looking at the other young talent coming along, he's in danger of being lost in the shuffle if he doesn't make a move ASAP. I also agree Alex Bowman being cut loose will prove to be a positive in the long run. I just wish there was a full-time NNW seat in good equipment available for him, these days it's usually one or the other... full-time with a mediocre team or part-time with a well-connected team sharing a seat with a Cup driver. Alex has shown enough so far that he should draw some interest, though. 612. startandparkfan posted: 11.15.2013 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe Ryan Blaney could make a few starts in the #36, he has run with Baldwin in the nationwide series on a few occasions. Another option would be to put him in the #12 Penske car for a few races, like Hornish this year. It's time to get him some cup experience! As for Bowman, he ran for Cunningham in the ARCA series, which is a Penske R+D team, maybe Penske could put them in their #48. 613. murb posted: 11.15.2013 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, hopefully Annett moving up means that either Corey Lajoie or Ryan Truex (preferably Corey Lajoie) can run full time in NNS for RPM. Or, if they have funding for both of those guys to run full time, then that's even better. Also, I will rampage if Alex Bowman and Ross Chastain end up rideless next year. 614. jabber1990 posted: 11.15.2013 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) wait, isn't Pilot/Flying J like $2,000,000,000 in debt? 615. David posted: 11.15.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I will rampage if Alex Bowman and Ross Chastain end up rideless next year." We wouldn't want the state of Idaho to be blown off the map. I enjoy my potatoes (au gratin, preferably). 616. Anonymous posted: 11.15.2013 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) I have lost all respect I ever had for King Richard I. 617. David posted: 11.15.2013 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Why? What happened? 618. TS1420 posted: 11.15.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^Why? What happened?" Probably because he jumped (or was forced by agenda pushing NASCAR) on to the "The Most Upper Average Driver Propped Up By A Super-Team & Genius Crew Chief Is The Greatest Driver In All Of Motorsports History" bandwagon. 619. jabber1990 posted: 11.15.2013 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "We wouldn't want the state of Idaho to be blown off the map. I enjoy my potatoes (au gratin, preferably)." I have family in Idaho, and I like them 620. murb posted: 11.15.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "We wouldn't want the state of Idaho to be blown off the map. I enjoy my potatoes (au gratin, preferably)." lol, I wouldn't blow up Idaho. I would probably just send in a slew of rants to Nascar complaining about all of my problems with the sport (like the Cup driver stagnation in little league). Or maybe I would just go on a cross country Gorilla Press Slam Spree. Hopefully those guys will get rides though. Johanna too. 621. 83andJoe posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >since Annett has never made a cup start before (and is not entered this week) will he be allowed to race in the Daytona 500? Or would Nascar approve him based off his 162 career NNS starts and allow him to race daytona without having raced on a smaller track in cup first? As mentioned, there's no reason why he wouldn't be. Drivers used to move up to Cup directly to Daytona all the time. The first example that pops to mind is Steve Kinser, although I'm sure Annett wouldn't like the comparison... 622. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Responding to multiple topics: 2013 being a dark year for racing: I wholeheartedly agree with that. Aside from Jamie McMurray and David Ragan's Talladega wins and seeing Ryan Blaney, Jeb Burton and Bubba Wallace show us that they will be forces to be reckoned with in the future, not much happened in racing this year that was inspiring to me. Not only that, but we lost Jason Leffler and had Denny Hamlin, Tony Stewart and Truex all suffer injuries from crashes they had in a race car. The rookies from this year: Blaney, Burton and Wallace all seem to be safe for next year at the moment, but Alex Bowman and Ross Chastain need rides. Those two are too good to be rideless. Bayne's diagnose with MS: This is just too sad, and a shame. Trevor doesn't deserve this, he deserves to enjoy driving his full NASCAR career, from beginning to end. I, myself, think he would have had quite a solid career in Cup. He might not have become a champion, but possibly had a Clint Bowyer-like career, where he wins a few races on fuel mileage and a few because he had a great car and dominated. Hope he can remain healthy. Johanna Long: Someone sign her for next year RIGHT NOW!! 623. kup posted: 11.16.2013 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) UPS - universal points system Points = Distance /divide/ Average Finish 2013 Sprint CUP after Phoenix TOP 16 as 4x4 UPS = Driver = Distance / Aver.Finish 1236 =    Jimmie Johnson = 13226 / 10,7 - Already The Champion? Not #6th! 1142 =    Kevin Harvick = 12793 / 11,2 - 2nd Chevy, best RCR 1103 =    Clint Bowyer = 13347 / 12,1 - Best Toyota, no wins 1060 =    Matt Kenseth = 13140 / 12,4 - 2nd Toyota, max wins 1015 =    Dale Earnhardt Jr = 13091 / 12,9 - 3rd Chevy, 2nd HMS 988 =    Kyle Busch = 12750 / 12,9 - 3rd Toyota, 2nd JGR 970 =    Carl Edwards = 13188 / 13,6 - Best Ford is just 7th 934 =    Greg Biffle = 13166 / 14,1 - 2nd RFR-Ford 927 =    Kurt Busch = 13442 / 14,5 - Best single car team is 9th! 897 =    Joey Logano = 12828 / 14,3 - 3rd Ford, Best Penske 877 =    Jeff Gordon = 12710 / 14,5 - Just 11th, 5th Chevy, 3rd HMS 868 =    Brad Keselowski = 13188 / 15,2 - 4th Ford, 2nd Penske 856 =    Martin Truex Jr = 13181 / 15,4 - 4th Toyota, 2nd MWR 835 =    Jamie McMurray = 13443 / 16,1 - 6th Chevy, best EGR 812 =    Ryan Newman = 12990 / 16,0 - 7th Chevy, best SHR 779 =    Kasey Kahne = 12702 / 16,3 - 8th Chevy, 4th HMS GEN-6 TOP-6 are: 3 Chevy + 3 Toyota + NO Ford. Top 16 are: 8 Chevy + 4 Toyota + 4 Ford. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: