|| *Comments on the 2013 Ford EcoBoost 400:* First Page | Previous Page | Next Page | Last Page | View All On One Page View the most recent comment | Post a comment <#post> 1. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (4) (4) Good news for Ryan Newman, who qualified 15th: the last two races at Homestead have been won from the 15th starting position. Bad news for Matt Kenseth, who starts P1: the last Homestead race won from the pole was in 2002. 2. murb posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Still expecting Jimmie to win the championship. The 20 blew it at Phoenix. 3. Smiff_2 posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (12) (1) I don't wanna be "that guy", but.....if Jimmie blows up 30 laps in and Kenseth does well enough to take the title, I'm definitely NOT going to be *sad*. 4. David posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NOW the #20 is giving effort... 5. Schroeder51 posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I don't anticipate anything happening to Johnson in this race that would cost him the title. Then again, I guess we'll just have to watch and see what happens. I'd love to see Kenseth win the title, but he and his team botched Phoenix so badly that it's going to take something miraculous for them to have a real shot. 6. RaceFanX posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (6) (1) Mark Martin makes his final scheduled appearence in the Cup Series. Ken Schrader also announced his intent to retire from Sprint Cup competition after this race. I have to say this race will be bittersweet for me, I was a Mark Martin fan from 1995 to 2006 and even after that I still sort of pulled for him (he's too nice not to). Thanks for the memories Mark and here's wishing you and Kenny a happy retirement. 7. 83andJoe posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So, 2014 ROTY class so far: Justin Allgaier Michael Annett Ty Dillon Kyle Larson Thoughts? 8. murb posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Burton's last race as a full timer too. He's been one of my favorite drivers since I started watching, so it's a bit hard to see him go. But he's had an awesome career though. Hopefully he'll stay involved with the sport whether it's as a part time/fill in driver, a broadcaster, or whatever. 9. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) It ain't over till the checkered flag waves Sunday night, but baring something disastrous happening to the #48 I don't see Matt Kenseth and his team prying the championship from their grasp. Phoenix definitely hurt them. 10. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #6: The list of drivers who may be making their final career Cup Series start on Sunday, which was already too long, grew by one today, when it was announced that Dave Blaney won't be back in the 7 car next year (it'll be Michael Annett). So that makes the list Montoya, Schrader, Martin, Burton, and Blaney. And last week, Bobby Labonte most likely made his final start at the Cup level at Phoenix. Quite a list there. 11. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) #7: I thought it was Austin and not Ty. 12. The Long Shot posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't anticipate anything happening to Johnson in this race that would cost him the title." Well, remember that Johnson's avg. finish at Homestead the past 2 races is 34th, and in 12 races here, he has finished 25th or worse on 4 occasions, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that something might happen to him here. 13. murb posted: 11.15.2013 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for the 2014 ROTY class, I think you pretty much have to pick Austin as the ROTY just because of the team he's driving for. Larson could pull out a surprise, but I just think Austin pretty much has it in the bag just because of RCR support. But hey, it's awesome that we'll finally have a nice rookie battle for the first time in a LONG time (and no, I don't consider this year's pathetic rookie race as a "battle"). 14. murb posted: 11.15.2013 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Well, remember that Johnson's avg. finish at Homestead the past 2 races is 34th, and in 12 races here, he has finished 25th or worse on 4 occasions, so it's not outside the realm of possibility that something might happen to him here." That's true, but the 48 has just been so damn mistake free during the Chase, so I'm not gonna count on it. 15. 83andJoe posted: 11.15.2013 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >#7: I thought it was Austin and not Ty. D'oh. I've been up too long and need caffination. So, 2014 ROTY class so far: Justin Allgaier Michael Annett Austin Dillon Kyle Larson Thoughts? 16. 83andJoe posted: 11.15.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >As for the 2014 ROTY class, I think you pretty much have to pick Austin as the ROTY just because of the team he's driving for. Larson could pull out a surprise, but I just think Austin pretty much has it in the bag just because of RCR support. One hopes that whatever else one things of them, he'll turn out closer to Harvick than Skinner, looking at the last two RCR rookies. >But hey, it's awesome that we'll finally have a nice rookie battle for the first time in a LONG time (and no, I don't consider this year's pathetic rookie race as a "battle"). Indeed. (And the fact is that if Timmy Hill had run the full season he'd be ahead of Danica in the ROTY points!) 17. Schroeder51 posted: 11.15.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's not outside the realm of possibility for Johnson to have trouble here, yes, but I just don't see it happening. The #48 has had a virtually perfect Chase so far, so if something actually DID happen, I would be shocked as all hell. As for the ROTY award next year...it's going to be interesting between Dillon and Larson, though I think I'd rather see Larson win then Dillon (they're both pretty heavily hyped drivers, but Dillon's hype irritates me more). I like Allgaier and Annett, but their equipment won't be as good so I don't expect them to really threaten for the award. Still, it's nice actually having a real rookie battle that we could actually get excited over! 18. RaceFanX posted: 11.15.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Juan Pablo Montoya's final Cup race before leaving for Penske's IndyCar team in 2014 comes at the same track as his first start at the end of 2006. Hopefully he goes out a little better, Montoya's first start ended backward in the turn 1 wall and on fire. 19. jabber1990 posted: 11.15.2013 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Bad news for Matt Kenseth, who starts P1: the last Homestead race won from the pole was in 2002." ironicly, it was in a car owned by Roush, the same team Kenseth was with last year also I just thought about this, Martin and Stewart were both competing for their first title, Tony of course won (Spoiler alert) now Mark is finishing up his Sprint cup career in Tony's car kinda full-ciricle if you think about it 20. TS1420 posted: 11.15.2013 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Of course the 20 team & Kenseth decide to finally show back up when the fat lady is warming up. 21. The Sound posted: 11.15.2013 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I am embarrassed that Jeff Gordon qualified behind Danica. On a melancholy note, Pennfield lost in the Regional Finals to Grand Rapids South Christian. It was a game we probably never had a chance of winning (they are the defending state champs), but at least a final score of 35-17 is marginally respectable. My greatest regret for my time playing varsity football was that we were one game away from playing the #1 team in the state, but we blew our chance by losing to a team that we, quite frankly, overlooked. Easy to say now, but I truly believe we would have had a chance to win that game. 22. Peter posted: 11.15.2013 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm picking Larson for ROTY, I think Jamie Mac's win at Talladega showed EGR is poised to have a big year in 2014. Either way it should be the best rookie battle in what feels like a decade 23. joey2448 posted: 11.15.2013 - 10:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) While it's true that Jimmie has had finishes in the 30's the last two years here at Homestead, you gotta remember that in 2011, he wasn't even a part of the championship battle, so the 48 team was running different setups and already looking toward 2012. And last year, they only broke because they were trying hard to catch Brad for the championship. Now, they only need to finish 23rd or better to clinch the title. They'll run conservative (also the reason for their 15-1 odds to win) 24. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (6) (0) Lol, Donovan McNabb says drivers aren't athletes. First off, who thought it was a good idea to have him as an "expert analyst"? He is a playoff choke artist to an extent that makes even Peyton Manning and Steve Young blush. Secondly, what does he know about NASCAR? Obviously nothing. Of course his second consecutive NFC title home game stink bomb in 2003 is the highlight of my Panthers existance. I'll never forget being at my neighbor's house, while they were all running and jumping around, sitting there stunned thinking "Oh my God, the Panthers are gonna play in the Super Bowl!". 25. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's gonna take a DNF for Jimmie to lose this championship, which the chances for are very slim given that there's no pressure on them after Kenseth and the #20 team did everything to lose points at Phoenix. I hope for a good race itself, though. Since Homestead was reconfigured, it has been a great track to host the season finale on. 26. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) In Super Bowl 39, with the Eagles trailing by 3 points in the final minutes, their quarterback is hyperventilating and can't even call the plays, and quickly badly overthrows a pass that lands softly in a Pats player's hands to end the game. That is the bizarro 1988 Super Bowl final drive. 27. Eric posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:31 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think Austin wins the 2014 ROTY for next years rookie class based on equipment, but I think Kyle Larson will have the best cup career of the rookie class. 28. David posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to hand it to NASCAR fans. They are vicious when they are riled up. 29. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.16.2013 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Donovan McNabb...in the words of Bugs Bunny "What a maroon!" Just another reason to love Fox Sports 1 and their round-table gabfests: The perfect place for former (read often washed up) athletes to come and spread their opinions. Hey McNabb, for crying out loud, the Vikings replaced you with PONDER, the same Ponder that may or may not be playing here by the end of the season and probably won't be a starter anywhere else. Another story I saw today was of Mike Helton patting himself on the back by praising how great the Chase is. The comments section thought otherwise, lol. Well, we're waiting for the inevitable for Jimbo and title number 6. Maybe the race will be enjoyable regardless. 30. kup posted: 11.16.2013 - 1:43 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) 2013 Truck Series Manufacturers Title goes to Toyota. Weird stats: just like #48 in the Cup Toyota won 5 years in a row 2006-2010 and now Toyota won 2013 and #48 gonna win it too. 31. We need more Onion posted: 11.16.2013 - 8:06 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) It is strange to see that whole year only 17 entries failed to qualify. That is 1 LESS than what the 2007 Daytona 500 had. I know that the economy is not the same, but still, only 17 DNQs whole year is quite bad imo. On a positive note however, most S&P teams showed this year that they want to race and will race if a sponsor is found. 32. Jared DiCarlo posted: 11.16.2013 - 8:50 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) During the race, take a shot whenever BSPN mentions Jimmie Johnson. You'll probably be drunk by the middle of the race. 33. Anonymous posted: 11.16.2013 - 10:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It would be nice to see Jeff Burton or Mark Martin win in their last start or full time start. Also it would be something if Elliott Sadler could win. Last win for each driver: Burton- Charlotte 2008, Martin- New Hampshire 2009, Sadler- Fontana 2004. I just want drivers that haven't won in a long time to win again. 34. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.16.2013 - 11:00 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) #32: You'll be drunk during the pre-race show and in an alcohol-induced coma during the parade laps. 35. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.16.2013 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR loves its storylines, and next year's storylines have already been written. They are: 1. JJ goes for number 7. 2. How much will BoB improve in her second full-time season? It will start during the Daytona testing sessions in January and go non-stop through the entire season. For those of us who can't stand either one of them, it will make the year agonizing. 36. startandparkfan posted: 11.16.2013 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Who knows, last year's championship was down to the wire, and despite Johnson having a 20 point disadvantage, he was the points leader at some parts of the race, but ultimately dropped out. Obviously, Jimmie is the best bet for winning this championship, but you never know what will happen during the race. I say Kenseth still has a shot, and it's not over until its over. 37. startandparkfan posted: 11.16.2013 - 11:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "despite Johnson having a 20 point disadvantage" Coming into Homestead. 38. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This Twitter #PeopleWhoAreMoreOfAnAthleteThanDonovanMcNabb thing is freaking hilarious. 39. David posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^They've had everyone from Stewie Griffin to Sergeant Schultz. 40. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'd almost be willing to bet that there will be more fans going to Homestead tomorrow to pay their respects for a final time (in a racing way, of course) to Martin, Burton, Schrader, and even Montoya than will be there to see the 48 win another title. I'm sure not making the drive down there to see him win again. 41. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm going too join DSFF on demolishing McNabb. 1. That statement is coming from someone who got benched for being UNABLE too complete a 2-min drill for guess ladies and gents? Being out of shape. 2. Has anyone seen Jimmie Johnson train? The dude runs 20 miles with ease and takes it seriously. He'd wear out most NFL players inside 30 mins. That includes McNabb (who is a washed up has-been) 3. If McNabb thinks it is so easy, why doens't he do it? 4. Jimmie has 5 (soon too be 6) championships, McNabb has zero. 5. Jimmie is a HOF'er, McNabb is not. 6. McNabb has "Golden Tate syndrome" Open mouth, insert foot. Is it just me or do (most) NFL have huge egos? "we risk our lifes for this great sport of football *puke*." Guess what morons, our guys do too. I used too like and respect football and its players, now i really have question why i did in the first place. 42. Dense Drip posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since Annett is going to TBR, does anyone know what's going to happen to Yeley or Blaney? 43. Dense Drip posted: 11.16.2013 - 12:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #31 There's also been less DNQs this year than what Kevin Lepage had in just ONE year (25 in '07). 44. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.16.2013 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Since Annett is going to TBR, does anyone know what's going to happen to Yeley or Blaney? -According to Lee Spencer, it seems Blaney is the odd man out. I'd almost be willing to bet that there will be more fans going to Homestead tomorrow to pay their respects for a final time (in a racing way, of course) to Martin, Burton, Schrader, and even Montoya than will be there to see the 48 win another title. I'm sure not making the drive down there to see him win again. - Speaking of fans, it looks like there are more fans at Austin for F1 qualifying than there will be at Miami tomorrow. 45. Loose Lugnuts posted: 11.16.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #44: I've been going to Homestead since 2005. Like at most NASCAR venues, the crowds have been shrinking, and not so gradually. You're right, this year will probably be no different, and I wonder just how long the guys in charge up in Daytona will continue to put up with bad crowds at their "Championship Weekend" venue before they pull the plug on it and give the final race date of the year to Vegas. 46. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.16.2013 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) From Twitter: @MarcoAndretti @scottdixon9 would @donovanjmcnabb fit in the Indy car two seater? lol 47. Paul posted: 11.16.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "Donovan McNabb says drivers aren't athletes" So basically, Donovan McNabb, a guy who was benched by the Washington Redskins for being out of shape, is saying that Jimmie Johnson, a guy who is currently training to compete in the 2014 Boston Marathon (5 days of running, 3 days of biking, and 2 days of swimming every week), is not an athlete? Amazing. Not all NASCAR drivers are athletes, just like not all "stick & ball" sports players are athletes; but as far as NASCAR drivers who are athletes go, one could argue that Johnson is the best one out there. And a better athlete than McNabb ever was. 48. murb posted: 11.16.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I would pay a pretty large amount of money to see McNabb get his ass kicked by a bunch of 15 year olds in an East race at Bowman Gray or somewhere like that. 49. We need more Onion posted: 11.16.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I have to remark on how utterly awful the #83 looks. It is not that I have a problem with BK Racing finally getting more sponsors, but please don't let Stewie Wonder design the cars. Please. But tbh, it say VooDoo in the hood, so given that no-one in his right mind would design a car looking like this and also given that BK cars are cursed, I accept the paint scheme as some form of exorcism. 50. Sector posted: 11.16.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Big Show from WWE is actually more athletic than the entire NFL Roster. True Story. 51. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.16.2013 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (10) (0) Top 10 Donovan McNabb NFL Fails: 10) Rush Limbaugh sounds off: ESPN made one of the dumbest decisions ever by putting loudmouth Look At Me political commentator on their NFL show because..... who knows. Of course it was a PR holocaust waiting to happen. So who was his very first target? McNabb. What does that tell you about Mr Athlete? Limbaugh has made a career of taking cheap shots at easy targets. Donovan was the easiest. 9) Terrell Owens: When TO decided to be TO, he ripped apart Philly's locker room. A quarterback is supposed to be a leader, yet Donovan just sat back and watched him do his damage. Something tells me TO wouldn't have done that on a team with Brady or any QB with a set of balls. 8) 2008 NFC Championship game: The Cardinals have made it to one championship game since 1948. That came in 2008 when they defeated Donovan in the NFC title game as the Eagles scored 6 total points in the 2nd half. Clutch work. 7) Jeff Garcia 2006: With Donovan McNabb as the Eagles starter in '06 they started 5-5 until McNabb blew out his ACL without even being hit. Over The Hill Jeff Garcia takes over, goes 5-1, leads them to the playoffs, beats the next season's Super Bowl champion Giants in the first round before losing to Drew Brees and the Saints in the Superdome by just 3 points. 6) Not In Shape: In 2010 with the Redskins, McNabb was unexpectedly benched in the final minutes as The Skins were gonna run the 2 minute drill. Why? According to Coach Shanahan it was because Donovan wasn't in good enough shape. And this is our expert on athleticism? 5) The Tie 2008: The Eagles end a game in a tie. Afterwards Donovan admits he didn't know NFL games in the regular season can end in a tie. He didn't know the damn rules. Ties in the regular season have only been a rule since NINETEEN TWENTY FREAKING THREE!!!! 4) Losing to Romo and Jerry Jones: Since Jerry Jones fired Jimmy Johnson in a fit of jealousy, the team Jimmy built slowly turned into Jerry's team. Ever since their 1996 Wild Card round win over Minnesota, America's Team has only won 1 playoff game. That was in 2009 against Donovan McNabb and the Eagles, as Tony Romo, perhaps the biggest playoff choke artist ever, got his only playoff win to date. 3) 2002 NFC Championship Game: In the final game at historic cesspool Veteran's Stadium, the Eagles with McNabb are heavily favored in the cold of Philly against the warm weather Bucs. The Eagles lose by 17 points as McNabb seals the game with a pick-six. But at least Tampa had a lot of highly heralded veterans on their team. Unlike..... 2) 2003 NFC Championship Game: When Donovan lost his first NFC title game in '01 in STL against the favored Rams, the Carolina Panthers had finished 1-15. Two years later, the newborn Cardiac Cats made a surprise run to the '03 NFC title game with a largely unheard of cast of players. With Donovan battle tested in his 3rd straight NFC title game, no way he should lose this one. They scored 3 total points as the Panthers won. In those first 3 NFC Championship games, Donovan's rating was 50.5, ten points lower than most "bad" QBs. 1) Super Bowl 39: With the Pats playing a pretty poor game for them, the Eagles are down by three late and Donovan McNabb has the ball in his hands. In a similar situation 16 years earlier, Joe Montana huddled up with his Niners and pointed out John Candy in the stands. McNabb couldn't even call the plays in the huddle. Was he out of shape and winded? Was he overcome by nerves? Either way it was a monumental fail as he wound up throwing his third pick of the game. L-O-S-E-R. 52. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.16.2013 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Here is a tid bit of info you all may have not known, from facebook: "Few people know this. The average amount of time a football player actually PLAYS the game is 7 MINUTES." 53. Anonymous posted: 11.16.2013 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm just going to let the majority that have already spoken speak for me since my opinion regarding that NASCAR drivers aren't athletes is the same. I may not be a fan at all of Jimmie Johnson, but to say that people like him aren't athletes is dumb. Sure, there's differences between an extremely driven athlete and an everyday athlete, but everyone who can consistently win in their sport is an athlete. 54. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.16.2013 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think the Houston Texans game with the Skins in 2010 should be on there instead of the two minute drill because it was that game where McNabb cost the team 2 or 3 different touchdowns and they lost the game, leading to the events of (6). Epic post, DSFF. *applause* 55. cjs3872 posted: 11.16.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, no DSFF, you're wrong about the 2008 NFC Championship game, as it relates to Donovan McNabb. In fact, the opposite is true. He brought them back into a game they trailed 24-6 at halftime. In fact, he brought them all the way back into the lead 25-24 before the Cardinals won. And I do think that Donovan is a borderline Hall of Famer. Four successive title game appearances is a feat only a handful of QBs in the Super Bowl era can boast, and McNabb is one of them. However, what the Chiefs are doing this year might hurt his Hall of Fame candidacy, since Andy Reid was his head coach for all five of his NFC Championship Game appearances, as well as his one Super Bowl appearance, and if Reid's Chiefs can win tomorrow night in Denver, they would be 10-0 an possibly looking down the barrel at a run at a perfect season (which the way the Dolphins' season has been going, would just put a cap on their season of discontent). But his comments about racers not being athletes is an errant one and way off-base. David Hobbs interviewed Mike Ditka during the 1989 Daytona 500, and he said then he believed that race car drivers are athletes, which they are, especially from an endurance point of view. An I think the one best to ask about this would be Joe Gibbs, sine he coached the Redskins for 16 years and has been a NASCAR car owner for another 22, and counting. Gibbs is a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, and one day will also be in NASCAR's version. 56. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.16.2013 - 9:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here we come. I'd wager money that Johnson will win this championship. But I'm here to watch more then just that! Since 2005, when I was really able to 'understand' what was going on in the sport, my top five favorite drivers had been as follows: 5. Mark Martin 4. Robby Gordon 3. Jeff Gordon 2. Jeff Burton 1. Jimmie Johnson It was hard for me to watch Robby cease his 'official' Cup career, almost bittersoursweetthing. But I'll be blunt, only in 2009 and 2010 did I cheer against Johnson for the championship. In 2010 it was because I wanted Harvick to pull an upset and piss alot of people I knew off *For some reasons, no one I knew at that time who was a NASCAR fan liked Harvick, and they were all assholes*, and in 2009 I desperately wanted Mark to win it. We know how that turned out, stacked up and taking rear end damage in a mid-race restart at Charlotte and the flipping on the next-to-last lap at 'Dega. At the same time, I enjoyed the racing that was put on there in 2011. Wasn't able to watch it in 2012, was busy with things. If I can, I'll be trying to watch the race with you guys and commenting here tomorrow. Gonna be a great day tommorow. Never thought this would happen! 57. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.16.2013 - 11:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I do think that Donovan is a borderline Hall of Famer." Cjs, I love ya dude, but that comment right there caused my IQ to drop by 10 points. First off, I did goof, they scored 6 first half points, still poor. McNabb consistently had great teams around him in Philly only to fail in the playoffs over and over. He was an underachiever. Was he 1/100 as good as Mike "Mad Dog" Curtis who isn't in? 58. cjs3872 posted: 11.17.2013 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wouldn't think so, DSFF. But Mike Curtis has one very public thing going against him, which is that incident on a Monday Night when he tattooed a fan who grabbed the ball in a game at Memorial Stadium. His own teammates blasted him for doing that. I believe that single incident not only cost him the MVP award for Super Bowl V (which he should have won), but a spot in the Hall of Fame. And as for your saying McNabb underachieved in championship games, yes I would say that he underachieved in two of them (2002-'03), but simply getting to four consecutive and five overall is a great achievement in itself, especially getting to four straight, a feat achieved in the Super Bowl era by only Ken Stabler (1973-'77-the only QB to get into five straight and should also be in the Hall of Fame), Jim Kelly (1990-'93, winning all four), Troy Aikman (1992-'95), and McNabb (2001-'04). Note that all-time great QBs Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, John Elway, Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady are not on that list. That right there shows what a great run McNabb had, and he was the only reason the Eagles were even in the 2003 NFC Championship Game. I've talked about top-tier and second tier as it relates to NASCAR drivers. I would say that in the era he played, if McNabb wasn't a top-tier QB, then he was the best of the second-tier QBs. Remember that there were many great QBs, including a couple of Hall of Famers that never even got to a championship game, and he led his team to four straight, which is why I say that McNabb is a borderline Hall of Famer, though not in the first 5-10 ballots. If I did put him in, I'd consider doing it toward the end of the time he's eligible for the main ballot, in the last five years he would be eligible for the main ballot before being turned over to the veteran's committee. 59. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 12:47 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Still, to make it to the playoffs that many times and never win the Big Game in this era of parity is just too much. Even Peyton Manning won a Super Bowl. Even Brett Favre won a Super Bowl. Even Steve Young had that phenomenal 1994 playoff run in the middle of a bunch of disappointing playoff runs (he lost to fellow post season choker Favre 3 years in a row, '95-'97, including twice at Candlestick). If he had the longevity and mostly mediocre supporting casts Marino had I could see an HOF push. As for Mad Dog, that fan incident was freaking awesome. He may not be in the HOF, but he is a cult legend and remembered as BAD ASS! I'd rather have that than be in the HOF. The Legend of Mad Dog will live forever. Much like Stabler whom you also mentioned. Everyone loves The Snake. 60. AutoRockinRacing94 posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (3) I wouldn't be surprised if a WWE-esque outcome takes place! But I really hope Kenseth pulls the holy miracle of the masses tomorrow! If not, the John Cena of NASCAR strikes again and I would be angry in a season that's mostly been like the WWE! 61. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tyler Reddick will drive for BKR in trucks next year, bringing his sponsor along for most races, Sad to see Chastain go he has way more talent than Reddick. 62. An Aussie Commentor posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) With all of these senior retirements, I would not be surprised if Joe Nemechek is the next retirement. Honestly, I don't think he would last the 3-5 years it would take John Hunter to get up to Nationwide. 63. numbah10hatah posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok, We need more Onion brought up how ugly David Reutimann's #83 looks this weekend. So that got me thinking, what do you guys think are some of the worst paint schemes from this year? Here's my 10 worst (in no particular order) 1. Danica Patrick's #10 Breast Cancer Awareness (support the cause, but green and pink don't mix) 2. Dave Blaney's #7 Florida Lottery Chocolate Covered 7's (I don't think brown goes on a racecar at all) 3. David Ragan's #34 Safercar.gov (just too much on the car) 4. Any of Denny Hamlin's #11 FedEx schemes (just plain boring) 5. Matt Kenseth's #20 500th start special (gray and black just don't mix) 6. Jeff Gordon's #24 Pepsi Max (see #5) 7. Aric Almirola's #43 GoBowling.com (bowling pins do not belong on a racecar) 8. Dale Earnhardt Jr's #88 Mountain Dew/Xbox One (see #3) 9. Carl Edwards' #99 UPS (see #2) 10. Trevor Bayne's #21 Henry Ford (black just doesn't look right on a Wood Brothers car) 64. numbah10hatah posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I had a terrible dream about this race last night...the race got rained out and Danica Patrick won. Harvick ended up champion as Johnson got wrecked by Joe Nemechek and Kenseth blew up. 65. We need more Onion posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:53 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) @63: Have you seen the disgrace Reutimann is going to run tonight? Easy winner. And your number 10 is my favorite scheme of the year. and @64 Spen once posted about his dream when Buckshot Jones became a classical composer, it is on his driver's page I think. That won't be beaten in weirdness. 66. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 12:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My least favorite scheme of this year, as weird as it may seem, would be the one Gordon ran during the 2013 Aaron's 499. 67. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 12:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Blaney's standard Florida Lottery scheme is my least favorite scheme of the year by far. That is one of the ugliest colors I have ever seen on a race car. 68. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @65: In a weird way, I actually kind of like Reutimann's paint scheme this week. I don't know why. 69. numbah10hatah posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) We need more Onion: I have seen it, and I actually like it for the fact that Reutimann actually has a real sponsor. 70. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Seriously guys, if Auburn can beat Georgia yesterday, then Kenseth and Harvick can win this championship. If you haven't seen the ending of that game, I encourage you to look it up. 71. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is one way Matt Kenseth can still win the championship. The last 2 years, Jimmie Johnson finished outside the top 30. If he does that again, all Kenseth would have to do is get a top 5 finish, and the championship goes to Kenseth. Harvick could do the same thing if Jimmie finishes outside the top 30, but I think he would need a win to have a shot. 72. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't take anything Donovan McNabb says seriously any more ever since his little tie-game incident. Here's to hoping we get a re-enactment of the 1992 Atlanta Race. The points leader gets taken out and the darkhorse contender overtakes contender #2 & wins the Cup. 73. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) F1's pre-race show on NBC is better than most NASCAR pre-race shows on FOX and ESPN. 74. 18fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Someone tweeted to Marty Smith and asked him where he would rank Jimmie among the all-time greats if he won the championship. Smith responded by saying that he thinks Jimmie is the GOAT. 75. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Creepy scene going on in Soldier Field right now, as the entirety of the players, coaches, and fans are being evacuated from the stadium due to reports of a potential tornado in the area. 76. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Someone tweeted to Marty Smith and asked him where he would rank Jimmie among the all-time greats if he won the championship. Smith responded by saying that he thinks Jimmie is the GOAT." Of course Marty Smith thinks that. He's only been the biggest JJ/HMS cheerleading fanboy in the media since forever. 77. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha,ha. I really hope Fox or NBC don't bring Marty Smith aboard once NESPN is gone. @73, I wish I could give 10 thumbs up to that comment. 78. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) ESPN just aired a piece about Mark Martin. Man, I'm going to miss him racing if this really is his last race. 79. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "- Speaking of fans, it looks like there are more fans at Austin for F1 qualifying than there will be at Miami tomorrow." Funny, because F1's title was decided a few weeks ago as well and by a similiarly dominant team and driver. I suppose the main difference is that F1 comes around once a year, didn't come around for a few years and is an international event. Austin, TX has done a good job I wonder how much Mexico and New Jersey having F1 GPs next year will effect Austin though. I read an article earlier this year (don't recall where) that made a point of the fact that Texas is near Mexico (really? lol) and draws many Mexican race fans. It is eery that Soldier Field was being evacuated, what's even weirder is tornadoes in Illinois in November. Minneapolis had a good t-storm yesterday, it was 60 degrees! That's pretty weird for this time of year up here. 80. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The NY/NJ race would affect the attendance at Montreal more than it would Austin. 81. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Final cup race for Mark Martin, though he will test for SHR in 2014. Final cup race for Ken Schrader, though he will run some dirt track and ARCA races in 2014. I wouldn't be surprised if he runs the Eldora truck race next year. Final cup race for Juan Pablo Montoya, he'll be heading to Indycar in 2014. Bobby Labonte ran what could be his last cup race last week. Is this Jeff Burton's final cup race? ESPN made it seem that way. 82. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I'm so glad that Kyle Busch didn't tie Jeff Gordon's 11 Busch series Poles in a season(1992)yesterday! 83. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This BSPN piece is reminding me just how many horrible moments we've had this season. Danica-mania, more 48 domination, drivers getting injured, MWR-Gate, etc. Hopefully today's race will be good and we can at least finish this thing out with a solid on track race, regardless of who wins the championship. 84. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The NY/NJ race would affect the attendance at Montreal more than it would Austin." I suppose that could very well be true also. Anglophone Canadians probably would rather come to the USA than go to Francophone Quebec, no? 85. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, I'm referring to people like me in the Northeast US that would stay close to home than travel to Montreal, though it is a beautiful city. 86. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Watching the Pre-Race on Justin.tv, Father is watching the F1 race on NBC. Crazy. 87. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Been watching the pre-race show for the past 12 minutes or so and ALL I've heard so far is Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson, Jimmie Johnson. We're basically getting a preview of what we're going to see in the race itself. I'm sure the race itself will be good, but I can tell the broadcast is going to be excruciating to watch and listen to. 88. cjs3872 posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#81), they didn't say that this would be Jeff Burton's final Cup race. What they said was that it was his last race as a full-time driver. 89. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Finding it ironic how ESPN is making a out-of-proportion pre-race thing all around Johnson's work out program. Did they pre-plan that they would talk about his workout regimine if he was still contending for the championship this year? Or it is because that one NFL guy said that he was non-athletic? 90. Sean posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I remain puzzled why F1 would schedule the Austin date on the same day as the Sprint Cup finale (AND during NFL season) if they really want to make inroads into the US market. I guess F1 underestimates how popular our domestic sports are, but it's to their detriment. Having said that, it looks like Austin has more fans there than Homestead will, but the Homestead TV rating will be higher. If F1 scheduled Austin just one week later, they might be able to get some disenfranchised Cup fans to watch, but few people are going to watch on the finale week... It doesn't really matter. I love the Austin circuit, but this race is pretty much just as boring as Homestead will be, because Sebastian Vettel is even more of an inevitable boring juggernaut than Johnson is... But at least he doesn't wreck people to win championship battles like Michael Schumacher did. 91. Sean posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I do give the FIA credit that their world feed shows where the action is when there is action, even if it's a battle for 12th or something. "I'm sure the race itself will be good" Really, why? 92. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Imagine the riots on this site if SHTF, Kenseth and Harvick DNF early and Kyle Busch dominates the race, wins, and finishes 2nd in points. Considering that everyone is pissed off at how Kyle walked away with the Truck and Nationwide owners championship, and to see Kyle then get a second place in this series without even trying most of the season...*evil grin* 93. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Really, why?" Homestead is usually a pretty good race for being a 1.5 miler. It's just that it gets overshadowed by the championship every year except for 2011, in which BSPN was forced to cover the action throughout the field as contender Tony Stewart kept going back and fourth through the field. Of course this year will be yet another overshadowed race in favor of The Jimmie Johnson Is The Greatest Show. 94. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Really, why?" Basically what TS1420. Homestead itself usually puts on some good racing (the Nationwide and Truck Series race should be proof of that). It just largely gets overshadowed by the fact that this is where the championships are decided and thus, most of the coverage will be slanted towards the championship contenders and how they are running. 95. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) They got a Disney Channel celebrity to sing the national anthem at one of the most important races of the year. NBC can't come soon enough. 96. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Over the past few years, Homestead has always been an awesome track. The first two races this weekend were awesome on the race track (despite my irritation over how the NNS title turned out), and the past three or four Cup races here have been great. I don't understand why some people think this track sucks. When you compare it to all these other cookie cutters, Homestead is insanely better. I wish it had two races. 97. Sean posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I agree Homestead is better than most of the other 1.5-2.0 mile ovals. It's just that I expect every Cup race not on a road course or at Martinsville or Richmond to suck now... 98. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FISHING RECORDS?!?!?! 99. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I cannot stand Toby Keith. 100. jabber1990 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) THAT was a command! 101. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle walked away with the Truck and Nationwide owners championship" Not quite. He didn't win the Nationwide owner's championship; the #22 did by one point. 102. jabber1990 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They got a Disney Channel celebrity to sing the national anthem at one of the most important races of the year. NBC can't come soon enough." Disney owns ESPN also, Orlando is just up the street from Miami right? so finding a Disney channel "star" (hack, like most of them are) isn't hard 103. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "I don't understand why some people think this track sucks. When you compare it to all these other cookie cutters, Homestead is insanely better. I wish it had two races." What gets me is all the people that pine for "Old Atlanta", turn around and slag Homestead, which is basically the same design (except for the high-tech progressive banking) of what Old Atlanta used to be. 104. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (3) (3) Has Jimmie crashed yet? I'm out buying beer. 105. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #104 They haven't even taken the green yet. They're just rolling out of the pits. 106. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh 107. Sean posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) None of the tracks sucks per se. What matters is how the cars race on a particular kind of track. I just don't think the Gen 6 car races all that well on any superspeedway, and considering the racing at the cookie-cutters has been even worse with the Gen 6 than the CoT, I also think the racing at Homestead will be, but I should have worded that better. I'm not saying racing on intermediates CAN'T be good. 108. WTF posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hate to suggest any drastic changes to the schedule, but I would be all for swapping the June Pocono race for another Homestead race. It would be before prime hurricane season and a unique change in track parody heading into the summer races. They should also return the August Pocono race back to 500 miles of human and mechanical endurance. 109. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jabber1990 #102. Disney Channel films all their shows in Los Angeles, not Orlando. I know Disney owns ESPN, I'm just hoping NBC will get better known singers for their races. 110. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) DJ, how dare you mention the phrase "Winston Cup". Brian France would not like that. 111. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution flag is out. 112. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kvapil hit the wall. 113. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Travis Kvapil bumped the wall. 114. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently BK Racing didn't know ESPN was on a commercial break. 115. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denny stays out. Why? 116. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Denny stays out. Why?" They don't have a lot of laps on tires, it's early, he has nothing to lose, so why not? 117. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And as soon as I type that, Denny goes from 1st to 7th in one lap. Looks like staying out isn't the move of the day. 118. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) I think this site would implode if Johnson won the race. 119. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BK Racing. 120. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kvapil in trouble again. 121. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The 93 needs a new driver for 2014. 122. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No one can convince me this team isn't causing cautions on purpose. 123. jabber1990 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BK Racing I don't know what the "B" stands for, but the K Stands for Krash 124. John Royal posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bullshit Krash 125. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Big Krash? 126. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) And thus my human piece of shit psychopathic Jimmie Johnson fan mother strikes again, obsessed with her disgusting human piece of shit driver and deliberately trying to make my life miserable. 127. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Backmarker King Broken Kars Bang! Krash Bulls**t Kautions 128. Jim Davis posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "And thus my human piece of shit psychopathic Jimmie Johnson fan mother strikes again, obsessed with her disgusting human piece of shit driver and deliberately trying to make my life miserable." Have you considered a place of your own? 129. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) It would appear that Jeff is marching toward the front. 130. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They got a Disney Channel celebrity to sing the national anthem at one of the most important races of the year. NBC can't come soon enough." And a/some/the winner of "The Voice" sang the National Anthem at the USGP...oh but at least she was from Texas (insert eye roll here). 131. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Allmendinger is in the garage. 132. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The good: Matt is leading and looks to have one of the better cars. Also Jeff Gordon is marching forward. The bad: JJ is right behind Matt in second. 133. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's gonna suck to see AJ wasting away for that garbage team next year. 134. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love Homestead! 135. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Have you considered a place of your own? " I have tried MANY MANY times. It's not as easy when you live with Norma(n) Bates. 136. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) God damn, can we please move the cameras around to some of the battles on track? Is it really necessary to show Jimmie and Matt just riding around every lap because they are the two "championship contenders". Can't wait till you're gone, BSPN. 137. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) The TV coverage probably has something to do with why some people hate this race track. Because this is where the championship is decided, they spend 90% of the coverage focused on the championship contenders rather than any exciting on track battles. 138. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution flag for a small chunk of debris. 139. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for brake duct hose... or was that hair weave? 140. jabber1990 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) did it fall off a Broken Kar? 141. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was probably one of Danica's scrunchies again. 142. John Royal posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Racing looks slow. They need to paint dashed lines on the track surface. 143. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "did it fall off a Broken Kar?" If it did, the debris would have had a sponsor logo on it. Or maybe they'd just throw a Burger King bag and a 2-liter Dr. Pepper onto the track. 144. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR.com says that BoB is going to the rear of the field for removing equipment from her pit stall. 145. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love watching live events with closed captioning on... they just spelled NASCAR as "MASS CAR." 146. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Two championship contenders battling for the lead. 147. jabber1990 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) "I love watching live events with closed captioning on" my local news had the weather on, the meteorologist was showing the rain pattern and the closed-captions said "Raining pro-Gadhaffi Supporters" 148. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope when the sun goes down it throws everyone off. Because if it's just these two parading the field for the whole 400 miles, I'll look like a total idiot for talking up Homestead earlier. 149. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone notice Trevor Bayne is out running Ricky Stenhouse in his under funded car compared to Rickys Roush car, and is only 1 spot behing Biffle. That has seemed to happen a few times this year. 150. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Blaney wrecks. 151. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for Dave Blaney spinning out. 152. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Melted chocolate. In all seriousness, I hate that for Blaney and I hope he has a ride somewhere next year, although he's probably more concerned about Ryan's career than his own right now. 153. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nevermind that, Ricky had a speeding penalty and Trevor scrubbed the wall per teams twitter page 154. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson apparently missed his pit stall, which is unfortunate because he was having a solid top 20 run. 155. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BoB is back on the lead lap. 156. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) On a positive note, Parker Kligerman is having another top 25 run for Swan Racing. I've really underrated him and with the news that KBM will not field a Nationwide car next season, I hope he finds a solid ride next season, or maybe he could join Swan full time and help elevate their operation. 157. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty bad restart for Jimmie. 158. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry it's been so long. I would have been talking, but homework, ugh. I have been keeping up with the race though. Exciting racing I'd say. Nice to see Johnson and Kenseth fighting for it. Even it it would mean Johnson might not win the title, I almost wish that the two came into this race with only 4 or 5 points seperating them. It would make for a very memorable event. I bet this will become a replay of 2008 and 2010. Kenseth wins like Edwards did in 2008, but Johnson will just lull his way to the finish somewhere in the top 15 and win easily. Harvick will finish in the top 5 or so like he did in 2010. But, If we keep having those insane restarts like we have been, at least one of our championship contendors will wreck. 159. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Pretty bad restart for Jimmie." Gordon was the only one that paid. 160. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick is fading rapidly. He's about to be racing with BoB. 161. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:38 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Cue the 'Childress getting back at Harvick for Martinsville' Conspiracy Theorists. 162. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth has all but dominated his 9th race of the year which would put give him the season title by one over Jimmie Johnson. Kenseth will also lead the league in wins for the the second time in his career. 163. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Harvick pits. 164. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Harvick pits under green. I think we can safely write off his championship hopes. 165. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And now Kyle Busch could very well end up with his best points finish ever. 166. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Harvick never had a shot anyway. 167. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) If we get into green flag pit stops and Johnson is too fast on pit road, then Kenseth could get the championship. 168. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson needs to blow up, but this race reminds me of Kansas 1 this year, Matt on pole and dominating early 169. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Montoya bumps the wall. 170. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) It just wouldn't be right if Montoya went through his final Cup race without a little bit of damage. 171. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JOOONNNNYYYYYEEEERRRRRR Someone HAD to say it. 172. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Getting ready for a four man battle for the lead. This race is finally picking up after a slow start. 173. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Danica Patpick. 174. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr to the lead as BoB totally holds everyone up. 175. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What was Danica doing?! She just held up the leaders and cost Kenseth the lead 176. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Matt already clinched bonus point i think, 177. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Really poor decision by Knaus right there not to leave Johnson out an extra lap to lead. 178. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin beats Kenseth out of the pits. With Junior and Hamlin running strongly, it's looking like someone might snap their winless streak today. 179. We need more Onion posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was racing any good so far? 180. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 4:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good racing thus far, and it seems to be getting better. 181. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JJJUUUUUNNNNNYYYYYYEEEEEERRRRRRR Leads. 182. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Steven Wallace REALLY needs to stop showing up in the garage area. Every time someone spots him they throw the caution... 183. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How about just one more fake caution for old times sake? 184. We need more Onion posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Debris" 185. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For absolutely no prize at all!!: Name the number of races Denny Hamlin has currently gone without a Top 5 finish. 186. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BoB gets back on the lead lap again. Gotta have her finish on the lead lap in the last race of the season. 187. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Judging by ESPN's coverage, caution to let Harvick catch up. Don't think they even said what the cause was. 188. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why are they still doing the "Harvick hype" angle of this race? 189. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "BoB gets back on the lead lap again." Oh, that's what the caution was for. 190. We need more Onion posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why are they still doing the "Harvick hype" angle of this race? " Because if Jimmie suddenly decides to park and Kenseth blows up, he can be the champion (�bervulture scenairo). 191. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Because if Jimmie suddenly decides to park and Kenseth blows up, he can be the champion (�?bervulture scenairo)." When you put it that way, that scenario seems a lot more likely. If anyone was to win that way, it would certainly be Harvick. 192. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bad Brad is looking real good on this run. 193. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Danica's on top of her boyfriend. 194. We need more Onion posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:16 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Danica's on top of her boyfriend." Meh, they had a threesome with Kvapil at Loudon. 195. jabber1990 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) giggity! 196. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 193 and 194 So many weird thoughts went through my head with that, but mainly laughter. I couldn't stop laughing for SO long! 197. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JOOONNNYYYEEERRR is starting to move back towards the front. 198. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is a fantastic race. 199. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, Kyle Larson is somehow up to 12th. Even if it is an EGR car, that's impressive as McMurray has been a backmarker all race and Montoya's struggled to stay on the lead lap. 200. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No hope guys, no hope.... 201. Ched Little posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This race is demonstrative proof of one thing: God doesn't care about NASCAR (could also be translated to say Satan runs NASCAR). 202. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another "debris" caution. 203. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Fake caution as soon as there is about to be a battle for the lead. 204. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) The ghost of Dale's Debris comes back... *re-reads comment* 'Ghost' of 'Dales' debris? Where did that come from? 205. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution flag for a very small piece of debris. 206. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Whoops, this one isn't fake. Gotta clean up that plastic wrapper. My bad. 207. John Royal posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Btw, this broadcast had term "Shaft Pump" used in national coverage. 208. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson gives up several spots in the pits. 209. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Caution for a piece of trash. "This race is demonstrative proof of one thing: God doesn't care about NASCAR (could also be translated to say Satan runs NASCAR)." So God doesn't care about NASCAR because he doesn't stop a team and driver that have worked hard to get to this point from winning the championship? 210. Ched Little posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) "So God doesn't care about NASCAR because he doesn't stop a team and driver that have worked hard to get to this point from winning the championship? " Point lost on people like you. If God cared, he would stop a team that has cheater more times this year than Richard Petty, David Pearson, Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, and Darrell Waltrip have cheated in their combined careers. Masturbater. 211. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Point lost on people like you. If God cared, he would stop a team that has cheater more times this year than Richard Petty, David Pearson, Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, and Darrell Waltrip have cheated in their combined careers." That's not even remotely a factual statement. "Masturbater." Is that supposed to be insulting? Very wild restart, seems Johnson has a bad tire. 212. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson and Kenseth almost wreck on a crazy ass restart. Jimmie might have damage. 213. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HUGE stackup on the restart. 214. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Johnson has damage, this is Kenseth's chance. 215. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 199. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, Kyle Larson is somehow up to 12th. Even if it is an EGR car, that's impressive as McMurray has been a backmarker all race and Montoya's struggled to stay on the lead lap. I dont know whats goin on with Jamie, it seems like hes been on pit road 3 or 4 extra times 216. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Almost looked like someone brake checked the outside line. 217. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did I see 6 wide on that restart!?!?!?! Johnson might have some damage on his car. Things have gotten a tick more interesting. But hey, what did I say earlier? I can now say... *Puts on shades* Told ya so. 218. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if Kenseth has any on his right rear. 219. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson scrapes against the wall. 220. jabber1990 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MRN says that Jimmie is smoking which means that Chad will rebuild the car to become faster 221. Ched Little posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) ""Point lost on people like you. If God cared, he would stop a team that has cheater more times this year than Richard Petty, David Pearson, Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, and Darrell Waltrip have cheated in their combined careers." That's not even remotely a factual statement." The 48 team got stopped in inspection somewhere between 20 and 40 times this year alone. 222. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All of that was caused by a typical Jeff Gordon restart. 223. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol @ that last restart haha. 224. JRacingfast posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My town in Minnesota currently has a crow problem.....i just told someone that if Johnson.somehow loses this championship.....ill psychically go out shoot and eat a crow 225. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Masturbater." What's your point? 226. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The 48 team got stopped in inspection somewhere between 20 and 40 times this year alone." "Stopped in inspection" != "cheating", but that's a "point lost on people like you." 227. Ched Little posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Typical washed up hack move from Mr. I-Don't-Drive-for-Five-I-drive-to-Stay-Alive. 228. Ched Little posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) ""The 48 team got stopped in inspection somewhere between 20 and 40 times this year alone." "Stopped in inspection" != "cheating", but that's a "point lost on people like you." Ha! Surprised you would know something like that. That doesn't count the 25 some odd times in just 12 years they've gotten caught cheating and either gotten penalized or paid off NASCAR. 229. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson is chasing the car he's going to drive starting in February. 230. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It'll take some time for Larson to get used to these heavier cars. But I'm expecting great things out of him. 231. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Stopped in inspection" != "cheating", but that's a "point lost on people like you." Nascar penalizes teams for things that aren't even illegal. Yet, F1(FIA) allows teams to have gigantic performance advantages that Nascar would consider outright cheating. 232. Ched Little posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) It's the same reason I don't respect Junior Johnson as much as others: if you have to break the rules, you're not talented because talented crew chiefs would dominate within the rules, like Dale Earnhardt's crew chiefs. 233. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Doesn't look like that caved in fender is even affecting the 48. Caution for Paul Menard. 234. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Menard has lost his engine. This might not go to Johnson's favor... 235. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caution for Paul Menard. 236. John Royal posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Johnson aid caution. 237. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Didn't Paul Menard have something like this happen to him at Daytona in July? 238. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too bad. Menard had run in the top 10 all race long. 239. Sector posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson nearly came down on Jimmie Johnson there. Kyle Larson is doing a great job. 240. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (4) #232 At least I'm not the only one who doesn't respect Junior Johnson. 241. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Kyle Larson should had slammed Jimmie 242. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "That doesn't count the 25 some odd times in just 12 years they've gotten caught cheating and either gotten penalized" Name one competitive team that hasn't been caught cheating. Just look at Keselowski's team this season. Oddly enough, they haven't been the same since they were caught with unapproved suspension modifications. "or paid off NASCAR." Yeah, a billionaire is paying off a multi-billion dollar organization... 243. Ched Little posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) "Yeah, a billionaire is paying off a multi-billion dollar organization... " Happens daily in the world of business... never watched CNBC have you? 244. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kevin Harvick and Matt Kensth are tied for second in points at the moment. 245. Ched Little posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle Larson should had slammed Jimmie " I may think Jimmie is pretty disgusting as a human being and an arrogant jack in the same sense as Troy Aikman, but come on that's just asshole buddy. 246. Peter posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy might steel one! 247. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) ""Yeah, a billionaire is paying off a multi-billion dollar organization... " Happens daily in the world of business... never watched CNBC have you?" Billionaires & multi-billionaires are some of the slimiest, dirtiest, greediest pieces of trash on the planet. Hendrick has a history of these kind of things & who doesn't think Brian France reeks of the type of person to take bribes? 248. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The stream I'm watching lost video, even though we still have audio. Hillarious. 249. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Trevor Bayne got a mention from ESPN, Oh My God! 250. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Brad K to the lead. "The 48 team got stopped in inspection somewhere between 20 and 40 times this year alone." That doesn't really prove anything, NASCAR's inspection process leaves a lot to be desired. 251. Peter posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Happy might steel one!" Nevermind 252. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dammit after working his way to 11th Trevor Bayne is only running on 7 cylinders now!!DAMMIT! 253. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Got video back. 254. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Awesome battle for the lead right now. 255. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Junior back out in front. 256. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Intense battle between Hamlin, Jr, and Kes. 257. Mr X posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice battle for the lead there during that commercial. 258. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a power move by Junior. 259. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Definitely looks like Junior has the car to beat tonight. 260. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bayne is now off the track. 261. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard on fire. 262. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Destroyahirismix666, what are you watching the race on? 263. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul Menard's tire is on fire. 264. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wait, Paul Menard is still in the race?! 265. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Come on Johnson, wreck, blow up, speed on pit road, something!!! 266. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I like how they throw cautions for doughnut wrappers but not for cars on fire. 267. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Woah, that was a bit of a scary moment right there. His tire exploded as they were about to spray the fire extinguisher. 268. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard's entire underside and left rear is on fire. NO caution The tire exploded on pit lane, NOW we get the caution Car is being BBQed alive. 269. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoa, huge fire! One of Paul's crew members said "hey, you bunch of dumba**es!" lol. 270. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Come on Johnson, wreck, blow up, speed on pit road, something!!! " I morally object to one of the words in this sentence: wreck 271. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yellow's out now, Menard's good run goes up in smoke and flames. 272. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Someone didn't learn how to use a fire extinguisher in Pit Road Safety 101. That was crazy how the tire just shot off though. Kind of reminds me of Richard Petty's last race. 273. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) @NicoRosbergfan Watching it on Justin.tv Using besweeet64's stream. 274. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, that blew up right in that crew guy's face. That was crazy. 275. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wish that Dan and Gav from the SlowMoGuys was there for that. Looks like everyone on Menard's crew is okay. 276. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 270. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Come on Johnson, wreck, blow up, speed on pit road, something!!! " I morally object to one of the words in this sentence: wreck Ok no wreck, i dont actually want that 277. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad everyone is alright on Menard's crew. That was definitely scary there for a moment. Made me jump when Menard's tire exploded. 278. RACIN GARDNER posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul done blew the ass out of that hot rod 279. Mr X posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's scary, really good that everyone is okay, shame for Menard. Never seen anything like that. I have no answers for what would cause the rear end to explode like that. 280. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see everyone on Menard's crew is okay, that was scary. 281. RaceFanX posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tire explosion, that's a new one. Really glad everyone is okay. 282. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch takes two tires and gains 20 spots in the pits. 283. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bad pit stop for Kenseth. 284. Mr X posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Menard's car looked like a small volcano going down the backstretch. 285. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wreck fest likely to start now. 286. BluesTravelerFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The last 70 or so laps have been awesome. 287. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ambrose must have done some strategy too because he's being shown in 5th. 288. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Ambrose must have done some strategy too because he's being shown in 5th." That must be a scoring error because he was nowhere to be seen exiting the pits. 289. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "That must be a scoring error because he was nowhere to be seen exiting the pits." lol, I should have known that that was a BSPN fail. 290. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No stopping Dale Jr. tonight it looks like. 291. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Ohh BSPN is scared for their hero JJ. Could you imagine how devastated they'd be if something happened to him? 292. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) INtesne battle for the lead between Jr, Kenseth, and Hamlin. Then the stream cuts out again, 293. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You didn't miss anything, they switched back to Busch, Johnson, and Gordon. 294. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Less than 20 laps left on the season. 295. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr will win if it goes green. 296. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) At this point, I don't even care about the championship. The top 3 in the race are going to put on a good show. 297. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) Let's duck away from an awesome three man battle for the win to watch Jimmie ride around in 6th. f**king ridiculous. 298. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Junior has made a move that aggressive in his entire career. 299. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Really close there between Junior and Kenseth. 300. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr and Kenseth almost wreck each other (a la Dover 1999) on a slide job. 301. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Hamlin has this. 302. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'm pretty sure Jimmie Johnson has officially clinched his sixth Cup title now. Not that I'm happy about that, of course. 303. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jr used his stuff up. It's Denny's win if there's no cautions. 304. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Why? Why show Jimmie when there's an awesome battle for the win? 305. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Because the championship is more important than the win. 306. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Here goes ESPN with their champion's praise. 307. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tense racing up front? Let's cut to Nap-Time riding around..... 308. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The battle between Kenseth and Junior was pretty much over by the time they switched cameras... 309. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Youngest 6 time Champion by 2 months. Jeff Gordon collects his 6th Owner's Championship!! 310. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Jimmie Johnson wins the championship. I think I need to see a de ja vu doctor. 311. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm happy Hamlin got a win, he really needed that. I hope his 2014 goes a lot better than his 2013 and I hope he takes advantage of the offseason to rest. 312. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I'm happy for Denny. He deserves a win after all he's been through this season. Great race. 313. An Aussie Commentor posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin wins the race and Johnson becomes a 6-time champion. 314. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gordon falls out of the top 10 on the last lap. How predictable. Hamlin wins the race, possibly getting himself some momentum for next year. Meanwhile, Jimmie Johnson finishes 9th and becomes "Six Pack" (awful nickname). It was a good last race of the year. But after a year filled with so many bad occurances, I'm just glad this year is over. 315. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Larson finishes in the Top 15 for the the first time. Jimmie Johnson wins his 6th Championship in 8 seasons, breaking Big E's record of 6 in 9. 316. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nice to see Denny Hamlin end the season on a high note after his hard crash at California way back in March. 317. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Way to show some jubilation, Rick Hendrick. Even the team owner is boring. 318. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Congrats to Denny! Very good race. The other thing that happened... *skips the bucket fills Donny Lia's swimming pool* 319. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) Remniscent of 2009, Hamlin wins the race while Johnson wins the championship. Despite the crap that's happened with im this year, like Spring Dover, I have one thing to say about the Champion... FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF*CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! 320. Num1hendrickfan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (3) Jimmie Johnson 6 times a champion, and Denny Hamlin gets a much needed win to boot. You can't ask for a better ending to what has been a fine 2013 NASCAR Sprint Cup season. That yellow smoke on Johnson's burnout was awesome. 321. BluesTravelerFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As someone who is not a diehard fan of him but still consider him my favorite, it hurt to see Jr come up short, but I can't get on to Matt for his hard racing, he was doing what he should have done, but still, dang Jr was so close to clearing him. Still a great race to finish the year off, although i'm not thrilled about Jimmie winning the title. 322. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin wins the race, possibly getting himself some momentum for next year. Meanwhile, Jimmie Johnson finishes 9th and becomes "Six Pack" (awful nickname). Dos Jotas...stay boring my friends. 323. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) You know what? I'm already going to make a crazy prediction for next year. The front row for the Daytona 500 will be Danica and Austin Dillon, the perfect combination to make everybody grab their Donny Lia buckets. 324. BON GORDON posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow Gordon has two great Top five race cars and then decides to suck at the end. Good job Jeff. Good....he needs to get up on that steering wheel more. I'm so pissed right now. 325. TeamPlayersBlue posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kenseth has the 2nd place in championship curse now. 326. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) ^I will never understand the hate for Austin Dillon. The kid is a good driver. 327. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Hamlin wins the race, possibly getting himself some momentum for next year. Meanwhile, Jimmie Johnson finishes 9th and becomes "Six Pack" (awful nickname)." About the Six-Pack nickname... Let's call him Syxx-Pac, since he has the racing equivalent of "X-Pac Heat" 328. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Gordon wasn't the lowest finishing Hendrick car in points this year. 329. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I wonder if Marty Smith needs medical assistance right now. 330. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Awww, Denny's daughter is freaking out from all the noise. Its nice they spent at least 30 seconds in victory lane. 331. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder if Gordon ever kicks himself for unleashing JJ on NASCAR...I mean think how different the last 10 years would have been without the guy. Chase or not. Think how different it would be for Gordon... Well, I pledged to watch the end of the race and laps of the season. I never said anything about watching them hand Mr No excitement his 6th Sprint Cup. #224 "My town in Minnesota currently has a crow problem" Lol, just your town? Doesn't our entire state have a crow problem? Granted it's almost winter, but those dark cawing mini-buzzards are the only birds I see anymore! They scare away the otherwise hardy little Chickadees! I'll probably swing around here every once and a while. In the mean time, everyone enjoy the silly season. 332. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So if Johnson wins 7, what are they going to start calling him? 333. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) D666, please don't stretch the screen like that. 334. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) What?! I get chewed out for stretching the comments page at Texas, but DIM666 does it and no one cares? ;) 335. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, I pledged to watch the end of the race and laps of the season. I never said anything about watching them hand Mr No excitement his 6th Sprint Cup. - I'm not watching that either. Someone can keep a tally of how many words Brian 'Arthur' France slurs for us. 336. Benjamin Lowe posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Mercifully this season is over. 337. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ah, I see I was wrong. 338. Troll Jackson posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hmm, another prediction gone wrong. 339. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (4) "So if Johnson wins 7, what are they going to start calling him?" Hopefully "Very Good Driver, But His Equipment And Crew Chief Definitely Helped His Overall Numbers". 340. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) Happier for Hamlin than that f**ker Jimmie Johnson, So glad this shithole of a season is over. Not that bad of a race though. 341. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wonder if Gordon ever kicks himself for unleashing JJ on NASCAR...I mean think how different the last 10 years would have been without the guy. Chase or not. Think how different it would be for Gordon..." Gordon is very happy with his success as an owner. Even if he's been beaten in the points as a driver by Johnson 11 consecutive seasons. 342. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Where did Kurt Busch finish? I had him in my race pool. 343. Num1hendrickfan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @ Zackary post 326 I don't understand it either, but it could be the same as why people dislike Jimmie. People don't think he's paid his dues so to speak, as compared to some of the others in the sport. Either way the 2014 rookie of the year battle is going to be intense. Kyle Larson, Austin Dillon, and Michael Annett should certain put on quite a show. I'd probably give Larson a slight edge over Dillon though, he reminds me of Kyle Busch with his immense level of natural talent behind the wheel of a racecar. 344. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For some reason I am sticking around and watching the championship celebration... I MUST be a glutton for punishment. 345. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Mercifully this season is over." Amen. 346. Kenny posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well bye ill see y'all in Daytona next year see ya......bye 347. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I had to laugh when Jimmie did his Lowe's sponsor plug. 348. Sector posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson's wife, Chandra, looks like she's about to cry in joy. 349. Jared DiCarlo posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Jesus, this season was terrible! Matt's probably in his private trailer crying his guts out, and I bet the audience watching this race on BSPN is drunk to the point of insanity. 350. Aaron posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr. winds up an impressive fifth in points, the his second-highest points finish of his career. His 22 top-10s this season are also a career high. What's a shame, however, is that he had this race won and refused to be aggressive in the least bit whatsoever. I think this showed beyond any shadow of a doubt that he's not interested in winning another race for the rest of his career, which I suppose is fine. It's a shame that he doesn't drive hard enough to win anymore, but I am definitely pleased with another top-10 race, a top-5 points finish and what was his most consistently solid season ever. 351. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anyone else see the guy with that championship ring hat? It looked funny but cool. 352. RaceFanX posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Mark Martin rides off into the sunset with a top-20. 353. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) Oh boy. I just thought of what they might start calling Johnson if he wins a seventh championship... "7 Up" 354. BluesTravelerFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF he finished 21st, although I am aware that may have been a sarcastic post(i'm not good at detecting sarcasm). 355. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hopefully "Very Good Driver, But His Equipment And Crew Chief Definitely Helped His Overall Numbers"." I wasn't alive back then but I hear they started calling Petty that after his 7th. Petty wouldn't have won 7 without Dale Inman. Johnson wouldn't have won 6 without Knaus. There are always great crew chiefs and teams behind great drivers. 356. Aaron posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was it ever really a doubt, though, that Johnson was gonna win this? 357. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (3) (4) I will come here everyday until Daytona just to state this "f**k Jimmie Johnson" 358. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Top 12 greatest Cup series drivers: -1. Jimmie Johnson -2. Jimmie Johnson -3. Jimmie Johnson -4. Jimmie Johnson -5. Jimmie Johnson -6. Jimmie Johnson -7. Jimmie Johnson -8. Jimmie Johnson -9. Greg Sucks 10. Jimmie Johnson 11. Jimmie Johnson 12. Jimmie Johnson There were no misspellings in this post. 359. RaceFanX posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Denny Hamlin's victory is his only one of 2013 and his first since coming back from injury. The last-second triumph keeps his streak of winning at least one race every year since 2006 alive. 360. epzik8 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Dr. Jerry Punch! 361. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Mercifully this season is over." Amen." - Take the 2013 NSCS Season out back behind the shed and put it out of its misery. Thankfully the 2013 season is over. I wonder how many NASCAR fans will partake in a "six pack" tonight to honor Six-Pack? 362. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (7) (1) Look, I'm happy for Jimmie personally. I'm not a fan of him whatsoever, I hate how he sometimes talks down to the fans, and I hate how he complains when he's raced hard. But this one obviously means a lot to him since his family and kids are there with him. So I have to say, I'm happy for him because of that. Now. Is he the "greatest of all time"? In my opinion, absolutely not. He's one of the ten greatest for sure, maybe even five greatest. But in my opinion, he's not as good as Petty and Earnhardt (for obvious reasons), he's not better than Gordon (who is the one who turned Hendrick from a good team into a powerhouse team), and he's not better than Allison and Yarborough because those guys were two of the fiercest competitors ever. It's not a knock on Jimmie. I think he's a very, very good driver. I think he's a Rusty Wallace or Bill Elliott level talent that has done a great job taking advantage of the team around him. That's just my opinion. If you don't agree with it, then sorry. 363. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Jimmie Johnson is the greatest driver of this generation. Period. End of story. The other guys need to step it up. 364. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Shit, I forgot Pearson in there. I don't think Jimmie's better than Pearson either. "Petty wouldn't have won 7 without Dale Inman." I don't deny that, and I don't deny that those guys did a great job of taking advantage of their teams either. But when I look at Petty's era, and the guys that he had to go up against, and then when I look at the guys Jimmie has had to go up against, to me it's just a no contest. But again, that's just my opinion. I have no problems if you think Jimmie is on par with Petty, Earnhardt, Pearson, etc. I'm just saying that I think he's taking advantage of his team, his competition, and his era more than anyone else. 365. startandparkfan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it was a decent season, glad for Hamlin to get back to victory lane. It's not to bad to see Johnson winning his 6th championship, at least he seems like a nice guy (gonna get a lot of hate for that). I think it was a pretty good race, despite some scary moments, and a not-incredibly-favorable champ, there was a great winner. And now.... Lets get silly. Most of the silly season decisions were already decided for the front running guys, but I can't wait to see where some of the old veterans go. Congrats to Jimmie, even though I am not a big fan. 366. cjs3872 posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, now there's going to be a build-up next season because Jimmie's got a chance to equal the most hallowed record in the sport, the record of seven championships jointly held by Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt, Sr. And while it can be disputed about the overall worth of Jimmie's six titles, the plain truth is that Jimmie's one title away from tying that most esteemed of NASCAR records. However, there's something interesting about the last two drivers to get their sixth championship. When Earnhardt was being interviewed with Richard Petty at the Awards Banquet in 1993 after Earnhardt officially got his rewards, Petty noted that his seven titles and Earnhardt's six made 13, so he told Earnhardt to get another one, which he did. That tells you how superstitious racing drivers are about the number 13. Also, here's something interesting. Jimmie's going want to win his next NASCAR race as soon as he can, because he has 6 championships and 66 wins. As we all know, Jimmie's now got that "6-66" label, which is nothing good. (In fact, my dad would purchase something else at a place he would go to if the total ended up being $6.66, which I also do now, just because we know what "666" means.) Also, and I know this is going to upset some people around here, but Jimmie's winning another title after a two-year hiatus from winning he championship, especially considering the year he just had, reminds me of the last line or two John Facenda spoke in the 1978 Pittsburgh Steelers highlight film. Those last lines were "pass the word pro football, the king is back". Of course, he was referring to the best NFL team of it's era, if not all-time. That may also now be applicable to NASCAR, because after two years of being knocked off the top, in NASCAR parliaments, "the king is back", which in this case, refers to the #48 team. Now I'm not referring to all-time here, as that's for history to judge. I'm referring to the undisputedly NASCAR team of this generation returning to the top. 367. Num1hendrickfan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Murb post 362 I would agree that Jimmie Johnson cannot be compared to Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt Sr., mainly being that he never had a chance to race against either of the two for any decent stretch of time. The comparison to Jeff Gordon is certainly warranted, and I would say he stacks up quite well with the other stars of NASCAR in this day and age. If I had to compare Johnson against a past driver I would probably go with Darrell Waltrip or Junior Johnson. Both had exceptional ability and a great run as drivers in the sport, although Junior Johnson undoubtedly had more success as an owner. 368. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, the 2013 racing season has mercifully come to an end. As much as I hate to say this, congratulations to Jimmie Johnson on his 6th championship. Like him or not (and I certainly don't), he deserves this one. The #48 team was by far and wide the most consistently strong team this season. And to all of the Racing-Reference commenters out there: The fact that all of you have stuck with the sport throughout all of the good, bad, and downright terrible moments this season is, to me, extremely special. Many thanks for making this season tolerable, at least for me. 369. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For me Jimmie Johnson has moved up to fourth of all time. Ahead of Pearson, but behind Petty, Gordon, and Earnhardt. 370. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (2) (2) Objectively speaking, Jimmie is the NASCAR GOAT. Greatest Opportunist of All Time From the Chase format, superior equipment, excellent personnel, etc. Jimmie Johnson has earned the GOAT title. Unfortunately, his "competition" is partly to blame for not elevating their game the way Brad did in 2012 and Tony did in 2005 and 2011. 371. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would agree that Jimmie Johnson cannot be compared to Richard Petty and Dale Earnhardt Sr., mainly being that he never had a chance to race against either of the two for any decent stretch of time." Exactly. Nobody knows if Johnson, Petty, or Earnhardt are better. That's why all we have is the numbers to look at. 372. Jim Davis posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Also, here's something interesting. Jimmie's going want to win his next NASCAR race as soon as he can, because he has 6 championships and 66 wins. As we all know, Jimmie's now got that "6-66" label, which is nothing good." It's amazing people can be this superstitious in this day and age. 373. Mike posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Been a Gordon fan for many years but I've come to grips with the fact Johnson has far surpassed him. He's already one of the top 5 greatest ever and he's not even close to being done yet. 374. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "But again, that's just my opinion. I have no problems if you think Jimmie is on par with Petty, Earnhardt, Pearson, etc. I'm just saying that I think he's taking advantage of his team, his competition, and his era more than anyone else." I don't think Johnson is better than them, but he has certainly earned the right to be in the conversation. But I would say Petty took advantage of those factors more than any other driver, because as great as he was, there's no way he'd have double the wins of everyone else if all things were equal. And the same probably applies to his championship total because a lot of his contemporaries didn't even compete for the title. 375. New14 & 88Fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:06 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well congrats to Denny Hamlin on winning, after everything that happened to him with the back injury he deserves to have something positive happen to him. Also congrats to Jimmie Johnson and the #48 team on championship number six, he's far from my favorite but right now that team is simply best out there. 376. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Alright, how's this? I'm not really into "Top Ten Greatest" lists and that type of thing, but I'll make one right now since Jimmie is now "Six Pack" (I agree, that's a pretty dumb nickname, but anything is better than "Five Time"). 1. Richard Petty 2. Dale Earnhardt 3. David Pearson ^These three are interchangeable, so put them in whatever order you want. 4. Jeff Gordon 5. Bobby Allison 6. Cale Yarborough 7. Jimmie Johnson 8. Herb Thomas 9. Lee Petty 10. Buck Baker ^I think these three are also interchangeable since those early pioneer days are kind of iffy. So overall, in my opinion, Jimmie is about the 7th greatest driver of all time. I think that's fair. He's without a doubt been the best driver of the 2004-present era. I just don't think he's better than those other six guys in front of him, all for different reasons. 377. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""Also, here's something interesting. Jimmie's going want to win his next NASCAR race as soon as he can, because he has 6 championships and 66 wins. As we all know, Jimmie's now got that "6-66" label, which is nothing good." It's amazing people can be this superstitious in this day and age." 666. Friday the 13th. Macbeth. If I don't kick the bucket in the next 15 minutes, then these superstitions are almost assuredly bogus. 378. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) No one's mentioned this yet but Mark Martin came back to finish 25th in points. He beat Gilliland by 1, Patrick by 3, and Ragan by 16! 379. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad to see Denny Hamlin close out a rough season with a win. 380. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) In Japan in the 1980s there was a "lost" generation. Frankly, in the Spirnt Cup Series since 2006, the "top" drivers are going through a "lost" generation era. 381. RaceFanX posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sponsor: #31 Jeff Burton- Caterpillar / Thank You Jeff Similar to Mello Yello's last race with Kyle Petty in 1994 Caterpillar used the quarter-panels to bid their driver a fond farewell in thier last race together. 382. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle Busch did end up getting his best points finish ever (4th), Dale Jr ended up with his first top five points finish in seven years, Joey Logano got his best career points finish yet (8th), and Kurt Busch finished out a great year with Furniture Row with a 10th place points finish. 383. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, time for us to take turns kicking each other's balls. 384. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's amazing people can be this superstitious in this day and age." For all of cjs's good points, I cannot understand his belief in these superstitions. "Objectively speaking, Jimmie is the NASCAR GOAT. Greatest Opportunist of All Time From the Chase format, superior equipment, excellent personnel, etc. Jimmie Johnson has earned the GOAT title. Unfortunately, his "competition" is partly to blame for not elevating their game the way Brad did in 2012 and Tony did in 2005 and 2011." This nickname is so great because it is SPOT ON. "For me Jimmie Johnson has moved up to fourth of all time. Ahead of Pearson, but behind Petty, Gordon, and Earnhardt." You have both Johnson and Gordon ahead of Pearson? Living dangerously, eh Zackary? For what it's worth, here's my new top ten list: 1. Richard Petty T-2. David Pearson T-2. Dale Earnhardt 4. Bobby Allison 5. Herb Thomas 6. Jeff Gordon 7. Jimmie Johnson (before, I had him between Yarborough and Waltrip) 8. Cale Yarborough 9. Darrell Waltrip 10. Lee Petty 8-10 are pretty much interchangeable. 385. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just for the hell of it, here's my "Top 10 Best NASCAR Drivers" list. Never actually done this before (at least, I don't THINK so) because I know these can be so controversial... 1. Richard Petty 2. Dale Earnhardt 3. David Pearson 4. Jeff Gordon 5. Bobby Allison 6. Cale Yarborough 7. Jimmie Johnson 8. Darrell Waltrip 9. Lee Petty 10. Herb Thomas 386. BON GORDON posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Updated Top Ten greatest driver list: #1. Richard Petty #2. David Pearson #3. Dale Earnhardt Sr. #4. Jimmie Johnson (it pains me but he finally moves ahead of Gordon...ugh!) #5. Jeff Gordon #6. Cale Yarborough #7. Bobby Allison #8. Darrell Waltrip #9. Herb Thomas #10. Lee Petty 387. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson becomes the first driver to sweep Daytona and win the title in the same season. Jeff Gordon finishes in the Top 10 in points for the 19th time in 21 seasons. Dale Earnhardt Jr. gets his 4th career Top 5 points finish(2003,2004,2006,2013.) This is a very late "obscure Gordon stat" that i'd like to share: When Gordon finished third at Martinsville in April, that gave him 20 consecutive seasons with a short-track Podium finish. 388. DB1995 posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 10 of all time for me 1. Richard Petty 2. David Pearson 3. Dale Earnhardt 4. Jeff Gordon 5. Darrell Waltrip 6. Bobby Allison 7.Cale Yarborough 8. Jimmie Johnson 9. Rusty Wallace 10. Lee Petty 389. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) My "Top 10 greatest Cup drivers of all-time": -1. David Pearson -2. Jeff Gordon -3. Dale Earnhardt -4. Richard Petty -5. Jimmie Johnson -6. Bobby Allison -7. Darrell Waltrip -8. Cale Yarborough -9. Tim Flock 10. Herb Thomas 390. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Thanks David... Greatest Opportunist of All Time What this championship does for the Cup Series is send out a reverberating shock to the garage. With the possible exception of Brad Keselowski, the competition will likely roll over for the #48 team and except the inevitable. What will be interesting is the influx of young talent with Dillon, Larson, etc. who are not part of the "lost" generation of second fiddlers to Johnson. The day Jimmie Johnson retires as a full-time driver is the day significant change will come to the Cup Series... an honest changing of the guard. 391. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:40 pm Rate this comment: (3) (3) Jimmie Johnson has yet to put in enough "greatness" to compare to Richard Petty's first title and any two of his of other titles combined. I blame Brian France for this... for denying knowing who really is the best of this generation with this damned gimmick machine. For one thing Jeff and Jimmie would still have ten titles combined, but Jeff would have the 6, and we'd be celebrating Carl Edwards as a two-time champion. 392. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (10) Alright, this pile of steaming hot shit is over. Enough racing talk. Chiefs at Broncos tonight, who ya got? On one hand the Chiefs haven't played a great team yet, but the Broncos are banged up. My prediction: Denver in a rout. A big regular season game in primetime usually equals Peyton Manning brilliance. I predict he throws 5 TDs and throws for more than 400 yards. Now if this were a playoff game it would be KC all the way (his '03 aberration at Arrowhead notwithstanding, one of only two playoff road wins for him). But it is the regular season and prime time, so Peyton will light it up and have the next week being proclaimed as the greatest ever en route to his 9th career playoff one and done. 393. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Chiefs at Broncos tonight, who ya got?" Broncos. Been a fair-weather fan since TD played. 394. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) KC has to control the TOP, win the battle in the trenches on defense, and run the ball and pass only when needed... see Stanford v. Oregon from two weeks ago. 395. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Thanks David... Greatest Opportunist of All Time What this championship does for the Cup Series is send out a reverberating shock to the garage. With the possible exception of Brad Keselowski, the competition will likely roll over for the #48 team and except the inevitable. What will be interesting is the influx of young talent with Dillon, Larson, etc. who are not part of the "lost" generation of second fiddlers to Johnson. The day Jimmie Johnson retires as a full-time driver is the day significant change will come to the Cup Series... an honest changing of the guard." Hopefully this next generation of drivers aren't all afraid of the 48 like the current generation save for a select few are. Larson already showed promise by racing the piss out of Johnson in the NNS Phoenix Spring Race, but he's got Cheap Ganassi's inconsistent crapboxes to fight him with in Cup... 396. cjs3872 posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For the record, I have Jimmie eighth on my list of the greatest NASCAR drivers, but when he gets to the 75-win mark (which might be next year or early 2015), then I'll start moving him up among the "Super Seven" that proceeded and rank above him. The fact that he's still ten wins shy of the lowest win total of those seven, in addition to the fact that he's had less mentally tough competition than any of the other great champions, many of whom had to battle each other at some point. But even the one guy among those top seven on my list that Jimmie had to battle (Jeff Gordon), he never had to battle when he was on top. Remember that when Jimmie ascended to the throne, there was already a power vacuum in NASCAR, as going back to 1999, six different drivers had won the championship in seven years (Jarrett, B. Labonte, Gordon, Stewart, Kenseth, and Ku. Busch), and when Johnson won it for the first time, he became the seventh driver in eight years to win the title. Also, with this title, Jimmie joins Richard Petty as just the second driver ever to win the Daytona 500 and the championship in the same season more than once. Petty did it four times. And Mike Joy mentioned something on RaceDay that I think is very interesting. None of the four dynastic periods in NASCAR history overlapped each other. Petty won all his titles before Earnhardt did, and Earnhardt won all his titles before Gordon did, and Gordon won all his titles before Jimmie Johnson did. It makes you wonder which driver will represent the fifth dynastic period. If history holds true we know it won't be Brad Keselowski, since he won the title last year and Jimmie won it back this year. 397. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I am kind of disappointed to see Johnson win, but THIS SEASON IS FINALLY OVER!!! I am optimistic that 2014 will be much much better. I am very proud of the way Jr. ran today. He's never scored anything higher than 10th at Homestead, so today proves that he has a lot of momentum heading into next year. Despite being winless, he had a great season and I really think he'll do well next year. Once the F1 season is over next Sunday, I will post my 2014 predictions for NASCAR, IndyCar, and F1 (probably around Thanksgiving). I would do it sooner, but I am busy with school at the moment. One more thing, this is what I posted back on the Richmond Fall page about my chase race winner predictions: "Chicago: Matt Kenseth New Hampshire: Kurt Busch Dover: Jimmie Johnson Kansas: Greg Biffle Charlotte: Brad Keselowski Talladega: Matt Kenseth, but my underdog pick is David Gilliland Martinsville: Jeff Gordon Texas: Jimmie Johnson Phoenix: Dale Earnhardt Jr. Homestead: Carl Edwards" Well, I correctly predicted 5 of the 10 winners. 398. cjs3872 posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:01 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) DSFF, Denver hasn't beaten anyone this year, either. They've played only one team that went into this week with a winning record, and that was the one game they've lost. I like Denver tonight, only because the game's being played in Denver, and they need this game more, since their next two games are against New England (though they'll get a break with the Patriots coming off a short week), and then at Kansas City. I just wonder if we aren't al overrating both of these teams significantly, because the three teams in the AFC that have actually beaten good teams are Cincinnati, Indianapolis, and New England. But teams like Miami and the Jets are playing a vey dangerous game, because they've let Baltimore and now Pittsburgh back into the mix, and those teams know how to win. And with their loss in New Orleans, San Francisco is doing very much the same thing, because a team once a lock for the playoffs, has now fallen into a tie with the Cardinals, Bears, and Lions, and of course the Panthers are also there, though they might drop down a peg tomorrow night with the Patriots as their MNF opponent. And the NFC had better watch out, because the Giants are coming, and we know their history of turning it on at just the right time, last year not withstanding. The object in the mirror of the Eagles and Cowboys in that division with an "NY" as it's logo may be larger than it appears, as today's win was their fourth consecutive. Frankly, I like where the Giants are sitting right now in the NFC East. 399. Mike posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Both Denver and KC have played the easiest schedules in franchise history, yet the media hypes up Denver like their the greatest team of all time and downplay KC as being pretenders. Donkey fans could be going home a little stunned tonight. 400. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While Cincinnati has beaten New England and ended Brady's consecutive games with a TD pass record, they are terribly inconsistent, losing to the laughing dumpster fire that is the Miami Dolphins on a safety in overtime and failing to put away Baltimore in overtime last week. San Diego, Indy, Pittsburgh at Heinz Field, and Baltimore at home to close the season will be tough sledding to earn three more wins. 401. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) See why I don't usually do "Top 10 Greatest" lists? I idiotically forgot DW. On my list, put him in my interchangeable 8-10 group, replacing Buck Baker. I actually think Jimmie is better than DW, mainly because I think Jimmie is a better "closer" than Darrell was. Darrell blew the 1979 title, and Jimmie has really only lost one title that he's seriously contended for (2012), and a big part of it was because of bad luck (the Phoenix tire blowout and the mechanical problem at Homestead). So because of that, I would have Jimmie as my 7th greatest over Darrell. And just for the record, I don't count 2004 as one of the titles Jimmie lost. That one was all about Kurt just hanging on for dear life. The 48 didn't really do anything to lose it. 402. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) The Broncos will win, with the score being somewhere around 35-24. Fact is, although Jamaal Charles is the best running back in the NFL not named Adrian Peterson, this Chiefs offense relies mainly on a dink-and-dunk passing attack with "Captain Checkdown" Alex Smith at the helm. If and when Denver takes the lead, I don't think K.C.'s offense will be able to close the difference. I do agree with DSFF on this: as much as I like to talk about racing with you all, I think we'll need to take a break from the racing talk for a while. This season has sickened us to the point where we almost have to force ourselves to keep posting comments that aren't relentlessly bashing NASCAR in some way, and often even then that doesn't work. My belief is: with the exception of "silly season" news and occasional racing history discussions, I think we should instill a "ban" on racing-related conversations for a time. Talk about football, talk about music, talk about whatever in the hell you want (besides religion or politics), but let's take a break from auto racing for a short time, shall we? And now, because I'm the biggest hypocrite in the world, my revised all-time top 10 list: 1. Richard Petty 2. David Pearson 3. Dale Earnhardt 4. Jimmie Johnson (it pains me to do this, but I don't see how you can rank him any lower than Gordon) 5. Jeff Gordon 6. Cale Yarborough 7. Bobby Allison 8. Darrell Waltrip 9. Lee Petty 10. Herb Thomas 403. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The way the media has approached this is farcical. I say that if the Chiefs lose it will be within the spread, but they can easily win. Why? Denver's defense is much worse than the defenses KC has played the last few games, and Peyton Manning has a tendency to lose when games are hyped up more. Think of his countless failures at the hands of Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, and Joe Flacco in similarly hyped games. When the Colts were eh and not so hyped, he usually won. Tonight's game is a cold weather game, so that plays in KCs favor, but this is Peyton Freaking Manning! I say Denver wins 27-23, but Manning gets hurt worse without leaving the game. 404. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I do agree with DSFF on this: as much as I like to talk about racing with you all, I think we'll need to take a break from the racing talk for a while. This season has sickened us to the point where we almost have to force ourselves to keep posting comments that aren't relentlessly bashing NASCAR in some way, and often even then that doesn't work. My belief is: with the exception of "silly season" news and occasional racing history discussions, I think we should instill a "ban" on racing-related conversations for a time. Talk about football, talk about music, talk about whatever in the hell you want (besides religion or politics), but let's take a break from auto racing for a short time, shall we?" I don't have a problem with this, but there is more to auto racing than NASCAR. I'd love to have some good F1 history discussions sometimes. 405. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm all for it, Long Shot. Go Skins!!!! We suck! We suck! We suck! 406. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow, SNF's theme song really sucks. Hank Jr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cary Underwood Of course BSPN chased away Bocephus and the PERFECT football primetime anthem "All My Rowdy Friends" for PC reasons. Man I hate the worldwide leader. 407. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And, to be even more controversial, here are my top 10 drivers that are driving currently, for each of the major touring series. For Cup: 1. Jimmie Johnson 2. Matt Kenseth 3. Kyle Busch (I put him here because he is freakishly talented, although he's an idiot at the same time) 4. Kevin Harvick 5. Brad Keselowski 6. Clint Bowyer 7. Jeff Gordon 8. Kasey Kahne 9. Carl Edwards 10. Joey Logano Nationwide: 1. Kyle Larson 2. Austin Dillon 3. Sam Hornish Jr. 4. Brian Vickers 5. Justin Allgaier 6. Parker Kligerman 7. Regan Smith 8. Trevor Bayne 9. Elliott Sadler 10. Alex Bowman Truck: 1. Jeb Burton 2. Matt Crafton 3. Ryan Blaney 4. Ty Dillon 5. James Buescher 6. Johnny Sauter 7. Darrell Wallace Jr. 8. Brendan Gaughan 9. Timothy Peters 10. Ross Chastain And, for the sake of inclusion, IndyCar: 1. Scott Dixon 2. Ryan Hunter-Reay 3. Helio Castroneves 4. Simon Pagenaud 5. Will Power 6. Justin Wilson 7. James Hinchcliffe 8. Dario Franchitti 9. Charlie Kimball 10. Tony Kanaan And F1: 1. Sebastian Vettel (no shit) 2. Fernando Alonso 3. Lewis Hamilton 4. Romain Grosjean 5. Kimi Raikkonen 6. Mark Webber 7. Nico Rosberg 8. Felipe Massa 9. Nico Hulkenberg 10. Paul di Resta 408. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hendrick depression has ruined my fun Johnson's won the title and now I have to run Maybe, I should watch F1 Hope, sweet hope Is completely gone, gone Hendrick depression has ruined my fun 409. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I'd love to have some good F1 history discussions sometimes." Adrian Newey has a total of 146 wins as a chief designer, with 38 of those by Sebastian Vettel. Jim Clark won the Pole for the 1967 German Grand Prix by 9.4 seconds. Jackie Stewart is the most underrated talent in F1 history. 410. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I don't have a problem with this, but there is more to auto racing than NASCAR. I'd love to have some good F1 history discussions sometimes." I would absolutely love to do this sometime. Formula One is pretty cool in its own way, in spite of what happened today. It would be a breath of fresh air, at least. 411. cjs3872 posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jarrett88fan, I didn't say the Bengals were one of the top three teams in the AFC. I only stated that they've beaten good teams, such as the Patriots and Lions, something neither Denver or Kansas City has done, thought that will change for one of these two teams tonight, unless tonight's game ends in a tie. You also mention that the Bengals lost to the Dolphins. So have the Colts, and the Colts lost to the Dolphins at home. And if I had to pick one of those eight teams at either 5-5 or 4-6 to make the playoffs, I would say that the Dolphins are the best team of the bunch, though I would pick either Baltimore or Pittsburgh, based on pedigree. Frankly, I think the Patriots and the Colts are the two best teams in the AFC (talk about things not changing over the last decade), but the Colts have had some terrible performances, the worst of which was last week, and the Bengals. One thing to watch, although they beat a bad team today in Houston, is what might become of the Raiders now that they may have a QB that can actually throw the ball. The Raiders joined that group of teams at 4-6 today, and if they can come up with any kind of passing attack, they could be dangerous, and a possible dark horse to make the playoffs. 412. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd love to have some good F1 history discussions sometimes." I'd like that too, but I only just started following F1 (around Monaco, I think), so I'd be the noob of all noobs in that discussion. 413. AveryNH posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A Brief Essay, Didn't watch a lap of this one. Never in my life have I gone out of my way to not watch a sprint cup race. I remember when I was younger I'd get my race viewing privileges revoked if I had been a disrespectful brat. I would flip out at the though of to miss a race. I'd sulk in my room trying to find an mrn station through the static. Well today I couldn't care less. I worked till three and we had two patrons at the restaurant I work at sit, eat and drink during the entirety of the f1 race. Apparently, after asking the bartender, they asked to watch nbc instead of espn. We chatted a bit as the last laps played out and I left when Hulkenberg and Alonso concluded their dramatic battle at the finish. Then I set out to find F1 2013 the game. Checked gamestop, best buy, walmart and Kmart. It was a fruitless venture. I grabbed a bite to eat, got some Christmas gifts... yes already... and picked up Reflektor by Arcade Fire. Highly recommended. On my way home I hit fox... exactly what it said at the time of impact remains unknown... but I pulled over and phoned the state police. While waiting I paused the cd and decided to check in on the race. I heard Menard's interview, made a few phone calls, (mom, insurance company) provided the trooper with the necessary papers when he arrive and heard the final lap. Denny Hamlin wins! (Well Neat) and Jimmie jo- click... back to the album. As you see I took the DSFF approach to today (minus the beer). As previously stated never have I deliberately avoided a race... and a cup race at that. I've been a fan since birth. And 4 of my all time favorites(probably, you've fooled me before Mark..) guy's I admired as I grew, shirts I owned that I soon grew out of, ran their last race today. I find myself at a fandom crossroads. I tried avoiding the race today but I caved. I know I'll watch the 500 but after that.. I'm unsure. Never before have I been so underwhelmed by a sport that once made me, and millions of others beam. Granted this is one lowly fan's view and not the vantage point of the collective masses. But, Hell I can see myself going to the ocean on the sunday of Loudon instead of seeing the race in person, which has always been a high-light no matter what season for five years straight now.. I've been pushed to the brink. Half of me wants to walk away and leave this behemoth behind. The other half overpowers, as evidenced by the urge to at least know who won today despite my valiant effort. And frankly, I'm exhausted. If next season starts anything like this season, I'm gone. And another part of my childhood dies. Like when I quit watching Spongebob and started watching sportscenter. Like how Fairly Odd Parents Became Family Guy. My heart has hope no matter how much of a joke my brain thinks it is. Oh but how it aches. 414. Anonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Chad Knaus said this "the rule changes during 2012 cost them a lot of their speed and thinks w/o those changes, would have won that title, too." He just really cant stand that Brad beat them last year can he? 415. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) For what it's worth... 1. Dale Earnhardt - Not statistically the best, you had to watch him to appreciate him. RCR was never the best team in the sport, yet he made them look like so. 2. David Pearson - Didn't run as many races as Petty or as many full seasons so he doesn't have many statistical edges, but the big one is 33-30 in 1-2 finishes 3. Richard Petty - Anyone who penalizes Johnson for being with Hendrick and Knaus but does not penalize Petty accordingly is a hypocrite. Petty was undeniably a great driver, but he had a full-fledged race team when many were driving cars not much better than street cars, and Dale Inman was a legend in his own right. 4. Jeff Gordon - Excellent driver in his prime, hasn't quite been at the same level without Evernham, but he always has a few moments per season where his talent still shines through. He'd probably be #1 if he ran at the level he ran with Evernham for a few more years with his other crew chiefs. 5. Jimmie Johnson - Like him or hate him, he's one of the all-time greats and what speaks even louder than his stats is what his fellow drivers have to say about him. I've never heard any driver besides Big Mouth Brad say anything but positive things about his talent. I actually don't think he'll get to 7 championships but he doesn't need to, he's proven his worth. 6. Bobby Allison - He would be higher if he stayed with one team for longer. His habit of team jumping definitely hurt from a chemistry standpoint and lowers his statistics somewhat, but he was unbelievably talented. Winning his only title at 45 is pretty remarkable. 7. Cale Yarborough - 1976-1978 is probably the best 3-year run ever. He definitely had the talent but it's hard to rank him higher since he ran so few full-time seasons. 8. Darrell Waltrip - The best short track driver of all time. He was not quite as good at other track types, but still legendary. 9. Lee Petty - Greatly benefited from Petty Enterprises' massive technological advantage but he definitely got it done on the track. Statistics do not do him justice because he was in his mid-30s when NASCAR was formed. 10. Herb Thomas - Accomplished so much in such a short career. He probably would have been what Richard Petty is to NASCAR today if not for his unfortunate crash that shortened his career. 416. joey2448 posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Chiefs at Broncos tonight, who ya got?" I picked the Chiefs. Stout defense, consistent offense (but not flashy or overwhelming), I like both Alex Smith at QB and Andy Reid as coach. But I think the Chiefs and Broncos will split their season series this year. 417. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, was it an oversight or do you really not think Kurt Busch is one of the top 10 drivers today? 418. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adrian Newey has a total of 146 wins as a chief designer, with *37 of those by Sebastian Vettel. 419. BON GORDON posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Drivers with the most Top ten points finishes: Richard Petty- 25 Dale Earnhardt- 20 Jeff Gordon- 19 Ricky Rudd- 19 Bobby Allison- 18 Darrell Waltrip- 18 Rusty Wallace- 17 Terry Labonte- 17 Mark Martin- 17 Bill Elliott- 14 Jimmie Johnson- 12 Lee Petty- 12 Benny Parsons- 11 Matt Kenseth- 10 Buck Baker- 10 Jim Paschal- 10 420. Aaron posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot and I do not see eye to eye at all. I don't get how you leave the 5th-place guy in NASCAR and IndyCar points out of your top 10. Just a blatant bias there, is all. 421. Aaron posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And for the record, here's my all-time top 10: 1. Dale Earnhardt 2. Richard Petty 3. Jimmie Johnson 4. David Pearson 5. Junior Johnson 6. Bobby Allison 7. Jeff Gordon 8. Darrell Waltrip 9. Lee Petty 10. Tim Flock Couldn't decide on putting Jimmie 3rd or 4th. 422. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Denver fans are making me dizzy lol. 423. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's get the ball rolling. Here is my list of the top ten greatest F1 drivers (World Championship Era), of which I am completely unqualified to post: 1. Michael Schumacher 2. Alain Prost 3. Ayrton Senna 4. Sebastian Vettel (will likely be #2 by 2015) 5. Juan Manuel Fangio 6. Nigel Mansell (seems like F1's Bobby Allison, plenty of wins but only one title) 7. Niki Lauda (his comeback from his Nurburgring crash to finish second in 1976 and win two more titles in 1977 and 1984 is beyond incredible, in spite of him being a Grade-A jerk) 8. Jackie Stewart 9. Nelson Piquet 10. Jim Clark (DISCLAIMER: Despite my attempts to appear researched on this topic, I am still unqualified to post the list that I have just posted.) 424. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would absolutely love to do this sometime. Formula One is pretty cool in its own way, in spite of what happened today. It would be a breath of fresh air, at least." Good. Personally, my favorite F1 era is from about 1988-2008. So many unbelievable moments happened during that time. Plus, the "Schumacher Era" was pretty cool during that time. "I'd like that too, but I only just started following F1 (around Monaco, I think), so I'd be the noob of all noobs in that discussion." Don't worry. There are probably others (and myself) who can teach you some things about it. Its history is quite remarkable. 425. cjs3872 posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anonymous (#414), as much as Chad Knaus can't stand the fact that Keselowski won the championship at their expense last year (Keselowski didn't beat the #48 team, because they beat themselves), Knaus is right about the rules changes at the start of the Chase taking away quite a bit of their speed advantage. But Keselowski figured out that if he raced the #48 hard and took liberties against them, that he could get them off their game, which is why they beat themselves last year. He realized that he couldn't beat the #48 on performance alone, so he got into their head, and it worked, just as Tony Stewart did in 2005. But the fact is that nobody else sees to race Johnson that hard, even though Johnson doesn't like to be raced hard. Keselowski and Stewart are the only two drivers I've seen actually take the fight to the #48 team, and of course, they've been able to beat the #48 team, while nobody else can. Keselowski even said prior to the Phoenix race that Kenseth should race Johnson harder, because Keselowski knows Johnson and the #48 team can't stand being raced hard. But that's not in Kenseth's personality, and since other drivers who would race Johnson harder, such as Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards, are mentally weak, that's why Johnson now stands on the brink of becoming the third 7-time champion, possibly as early as next year. 426. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Anyone who penalizes Johnson for being with Hendrick and Knaus but does not penalize Petty accordingly is a hypocrite." Petty is so far ahead statistically that he can be penalized and STILL be #1. 427. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) My Top 10 greatest F1 drivers of all-time: -1. Jim Clark -2. Michael Schumacher -3. Jackie Stewart -4. Ayrton Senna -5. Alain Prost -6. Juan Manuel Fangio -7. Sebastian Vettel -8. Fernando Alonso -9. Niki Lauda 10. Stirling Moss 428. Aaron posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) F1 top 10: 1. Ayrton Senna 2. Michael Schumacher 3. Juan Manuel Fangio 4. Sebastian Vettel 5. Jackie Stewart 6. Alain Prost 7. Fernando Alonso 8. Jim Clark 9. Nigel Mansell 10. Nelson Piquet Sr. 429. Aaron posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I might have to adjust it and look into adding James Hunt, Lauda or Moss. 430. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Petty is so far ahead statistically that he can be penalized and STILL be #1." LOL, that's fair and possibly true. 431. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "One thing to watch, although they beat a bad team today in Houston, is what might become of the Raiders now that they may have a QB that can actually throw the ball. The Raiders joined that group of teams at 4-6 today, and if they can come up with any kind of passing attack, they could be dangerous, and a possible dark horse to make the playoffs." I had to laugh at this. The Raiders' pass defense is one of the worst in the league, so even if Matt McGloin turns into the next Tom Brady (which I highly doubt he will), the pass defense is going to hinder the team massively. And remember this: Oakland still has to face Dallas, Kansas City, San Diego, and Denver before this season is out. Those are four "reasonable" to "superb" passing attacks coming up. "The Long Shot, was it an oversight or do you really not think Kurt Busch is one of the top 10 drivers today?" It wasn't an oversight. I debate on this one for a while, but I honestly feel that Kahne, Edwards, and Logano are slightly more talented drivers than Busch, and on those lists, talent was my #1 rating criteria. Nothing against Busch at all, but I don't think he quite cuts it (he'd almost certainly be 11th, though). "The Long Shot and I do not see eye to eye at all. I don't get how you leave the 5th-place guy in NASCAR and IndyCar points out of your top 10. Just a blatant bias there, is all." Bias? Lol, nope. Again, Junior was one that I was debating about, but I honestly think that even though Kahne, Edwards, and Logano are less consistent than he is (as well as Kurt), they are more talented drivers overall. As for Marco, he is one of the most overrated drivers in the world today. He has talent, without a doubt, but it's name recognition and equipment that has gotten him to where he is now. If I had to put him anywhere on my list, I'd put him in 10th in place of Kanaan, and that's only because Kanaan is aging and doesn't have much left in the tank. 432. The Long Shot posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *looks up stats quickly, comes up with on-the-fly top 10 list* Top 10 F1 Drivers: 1. Michael Schumacher 2. Jim Clark 3. Juan Manuel Fangio 4. Ayrton Senna 5. Sebastian Vettel 6. Alain Prost 7. Jackie Stewart 8. Nelson Piquet 9. Fernando Alonso 10. Niki Lauda 433. Scott. B posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With several veterans retiring or having unknown plans for next year, nice to see Larson and Kligerman have good runs today. I expect a fine crop of rookies for 2014 and probably 2015 as well. 434. cjs3872 posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, I don't think the Raiders are going to make the playoffs, The Long Shot. What I'm saying is that they're a more dangerous team if they can find a passing attack. After all, if you're facing a team without any kind of passing game, you figure that 17-20 points will be enough to win, but if they find a passing attack, more might be needed. You're right about their porous pass defense. And I've already said that the best team among the 4-6 or 5-5 teams is the Dolphins, while the Ravens and Steelers have to be considered possibilities because of their pedigree. San Diego, Tennessee, and Cleveland have probably played their way out of it, while I don't like the chances of the Jets or Bills either. 435. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good list, David. Here's a list of the 5 best F1 races in history, in my opinion: 1.) 2008 Brazilian Grand Prix (Felipe Massa is champion for about 15 seconds until Lewis Hamilton comes back to win the title) 2.) 1989 Japanese Grand Prix (Ayrton Senna and Alain Prost have an epic duel until things become ugly with about 7 laps to go, leading to a major rivalry between them) 3.) 1984 Monaco Grand Prix (What many consider to be Ayrton Senna's greatest drive in the underfunded Toleman team as he finishes second and was catching Alain Prost until the rain was stopped due to rain) 4.) 1982 Monaco Grand Prix (The Grand Prix nobody seemed to want to win as the lead changed hands about 5 times in the last 3 laps due to wrecks and mechanical failures) 5.) 1971 Italian Grand Prix (Peter Gethin's only F1 win comes after the top 4 finished within 0.61 sec. and the lead changed 26 times) Also the top three best-sounding F1 engines of all time: 1.) V10s used from 1995-2005 (Those things sounded great and so much better than those V8s used now. I recommend typing in "Michael Schumacher Monaco 2004" on YouTube to listen for yourself) 2.) V12s used from 1989-1994 3.) V6s used in the early 1980s 436. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd like that too, but I only just started following F1 (around Monaco, I think)" As a matter of fact, Monaco was the first F1 race I ever watched. I did catch the early stages of the Canadian GP and attempted to watch the end of today's race (without luck, as the signal was garbage). "Personally, my favorite F1 era is from about 1988-2008. So many unbelievable moments happened during that time. Plus, the "Schumacher Era" was pretty cool during that time." 1988 was when the Senna-Prost rivalry really heated up, am I right? I know that year was a bit of a controversy with the points system, as Prost scored more points overall but Senna won the title (sounds familiar, doesn't it?), due to the championship only counting the eleven best finishes that year. My inference is that that is what caused F1 to start counting all races toward the title in 1991. And then, of course, in 1989 they got into it at Japan (and again the following year). But yeah, I'm clearly not an expert here. 437. TS1420 posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I actually think Jimmie is better than DW, mainly because I think Jimmie is a better "closer" than Darrell was. Darrell blew the 1979 title, and Jimmie has really only lost one title that he's seriously contended for (2012), and a big part of it was because of bad luck (the Phoenix tire blowout and the mechanical problem at Homestead). So because of that, I would have Jimmie as my 7th greatest over Darrell. And just for the record, I don't count 2004 as one of the titles Jimmie lost. That one was all about Kurt just hanging on for dear life. The 48 didn't really do anything to lose it." Jimmie actually blew TWO title chases: 2005 & 2012. I find it funny that the 48 team is back on top of the motorsports world and they still need to make excuses for 2012 championship bust and belittle Brad to make themselves feel better. Keselowski needs to return with a vengeance next season. He has the 48's number (literally in Nationwide) and they know it. And now my top ten list: The Holy Trinity: 1 - Richard Petty 2 - Dale Earnhardt 3 - David Pearson The Elite Legends: 4 - Bobby Allison 5 - Jeff Gordon 6 - Cale Yarborough The Legends: 7 - Darrell Waltrip 8 - Jimmie Johnson 9 - Lee Petty 10 - Joe Weatherly 438. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kurt Busch is absolutely one of the top ten best active drivers in Cup. To me he's actually borderline top five if we're talking about best overall drivers. Ah, just for the hell of it, here's my list of the top ten best overall drivers in Cup right now. Hopefully I don't screw up and forget someone vital like I did with my other list. 1. Jimmie Johnson (Pretty much #1 by default, though I do give him credit for being the most cerebral driver out right now.) 2. Kyle Busch 3. Brad Keselowski 4. Jeff Gordon 5. Matt Kenseth 6. Kurt Busch 7. Carl Edwards 8. Denny Hamlin 9. Clint Bowyer 10. Dale Earnhardt Jr I left off Tony Stewart just because I'm not sure how he'll be after coming back from that serious injury. Otherwise, he easily would have been on there. And I would have had Denny a couple spots higher too, but I think he's lost a tad of touch since his injury. As for Kahne, I think he's the most overrated driver in Cup right now. I would probably have him and Newman in 11th and 12th respectively. And while Logano has completely proven me wrong this year and has become a legit Cup driver, I don't think he's top ten just yet. And as for the F1 list, that definitely is an interesting discussion. I am a fan of F1, but I don't really feel confident enough in my knowledge of that sport's history to make a complete top ten list. Maybe I'll study up more during the off season. 439. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "2. Jim Clark" My knock against Clark is that he won all of his races for the same team. Now, if Lotus was a crappy team back in the '60s, then I'll reconsider. I'm not entirely sure why I left Alonso off my list. 440. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Jimmie actually blew TWO title chases: 2005 & 2012." I don't count 2005. Tony was just the man that year. 441. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1988 was when the Senna-Prost rivalry really heated up, am I right? I know that year was a bit of a controversy with the points system, as Prost scored more points overall but Senna won the title (sounds familiar, doesn't it?), due to the championship only counting the eleven best finishes that year. My inference is that that is what caused F1 to start counting all races toward the title in 1991. And then, of course, in 1989 they got into it at Japan (and again the following year)." You're right, 1988 was their first year as teammates at McLaren, and at first they had a pretty good friendship until things became pretty ugly in 1989. I think Prost was angry because Senna essentially dominated the first year and demoted Prost to their number 2 driver, which he was not used to. As far as point system controversy, that is news to me. By the way, I began watching F1 in 2012, and the first race I watched was the Chinese GP, which is why Nico Rosberg is my favorite F1 driver. I gained a TON of F1 knowledge watching "Senna" about 20 different times. It's definitely a great movie. 442. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I gained a TON of F1 knowledge watching "Senna" about 20 different times. It's definitely a great movie." *adds "Senna" to list of F1 movie watchlist, right behind "Rush"* 443. Jim Davis posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) When do they announce Rookie of the Year? 444. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "to list of F1 movie watchlist" Should be either "to F1 movie watchlist" or "to list of F1 movies to watch". 445. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess I can make an active driver F1 list... 1. Sebastian Vettel 2. Fernando Alonso 3. Lewis Hamilton 4. Kimi Raikkonen 5. Jenson Button 6. Nico Rosberg 7. Romain Grosjean 8. Felipe Massa 9. Sergio Perez 10. Paul Di Resta I didn't put Mark Webber (even though he's my favorite F1 driver), since he's only an active F1 driver for one more race. But if I were to put him on there, I would put him 6th in front of Rosberg. 446. BluesTravelerFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Well, I've got one final post to make, and it will be a bit sappy and will rehash some things I have already said, so if I get on anyone's nerves here I apologize. First off congratulations to Jimmie and his sixth championship. I may not like him or the fact that he got the title, but he earned it. Also congrats to Denny on his win, although I was pulling for Jr at the end there, I was still happy for Denny, he has been through everything this year, and deserved it. Last but CERTAINLY not least, thanks to the webmaster and all you guys that post here on this wonderful site. The level of intelligence and knowledge on these comment boards is remarkable and far exceeds anything I have ever seen before. I have been an on and off NASCAR fan for basically a decade, I can remember when I was a small child, we had these tapes of some of Dale Earnhardt's best races and moments(it was actually a tribute ESPN classic done for him after his tragic death), and I can remember being absolutely obsessed with watching those tapes, just unable to get enough of it. I also recall watching the incredible battle between Kurt Busch and Ricky Craven in Darlington 2003(the first year I can remember watching live races), which is probably the greatest finish ever. Sadly, there haven't been too many moments like this in the time since, but I still try to enjoy the ride as much as I can. Prior to this year, I was a fan, but in many ways was still very ignorant about many aspects of it, and looked at it on a very basic level. But since I started reading the comments early this year(and have almost everyday since, but didn't make my first comment until mid-summer), I have learned so much about this sport just by merely reading these comments, and although my knowledge still lags way behind you guys, I look at it on a much more deep level than before. While it certainly wasn't the best of seasons(although there were SOME good times), finding this site made it a whole lot better. That about does it for me, I am aware that will be many more discussions on here during the offseason, but I am frankly burnt out on racing and need a break, so this will probably do it for me for this season. See you guys at Daytona! 447. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "When do they announce Rookie of the Year?" They're probably still adding up the points since it was such an amazingly close battle right down to the wire. 448. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) #443 I was wondering that myself. Even though Stenhouse clearly outperformed Danica throughout the year and definitely finished ahead of her in rookie points (Timmy Hill probably would have as well if he had run the full schedule), I still have this sneaking hunch that Danica will be named ROTY instead. It wouldn't be the first time it happened. In 1976, Terry Bivins earned the most rookie points, but Skip Manning was named ROTY instead (fun fact: This actually ultimately caused Bivins to quit NASCAR, which is why he never ran again after '77). Likewise, in 1981 Morgan Shepherd earned the most rookie points but the award went to Ron Bouchard. 449. murb posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seriously though, they came out with this press release earlier in the weekend talking about Stenhouse sealing ROTY, so it's pretty much already official that he won it. He slaughtered Danica so bad it's really like they didn't even need to announce it. 450. David posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "When do they announce Rookie of the Year?" It was Stenhouse, if that is what you were wondering. 451. Schroeder51 posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Oh, never mind then. But it wouldn't have shocked me if they did give the award to Danica for some crazy reason... 452. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "They're probably still adding up the points since it was such an amazingly close battle right down to the wire." What, is Timmy Hill closing in on Danica for 2nd? 453. 83andJoe posted: 11.17.2013 - 9:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #31 sponsor: Caterpillar "Thank You Jeff" 454. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.17.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chiefs hung tight there, but man Smith is an albatross to this offense. They'd be ahead 24-17 if he played with a brain. O-line doesn't buy him any time, while Peyton's gives him enough time to piss on the field during a play. Truly equal matchup 455. I Love Japan posted: 11.17.2013 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I can't wait until it is Dylan Kwasniewski breaking records and dominating in Cup. 456. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've mentioned before that Johnson has beaten Gordon in the points 11 consecutive years. Here a list of every driver that has beaten Gordon at least 4 times, with June Bug joining that list tonight. Most Gordon defeats: Jimmie Johnson----11 2003-13 Mark Martin--------7 1993-94,1999-00,2002,2005,2009 Tony Stewart-------7 1999-00,2002,2005,2010-12 Matt Kenseth-------7 2003,2005-06,2010-13 Kevin Harvick------6 2006,2008,2010-2013 Rusty Wallace------4 1993-94,2000,2005 Carl Edwards-------4 2005,2008,2010-11 Greg Biffle--------4 2005,2008,2010,2012 Dale Earnhardt Jr.-4 2003,2006,2011,2013 It's worth noting that Kyle Busch beat Jeff Gordon in the points for only the 2nd time in his 8 season career, and Jimmie Johnson had 4 Championships in his first 8 seasons. Matt Kenseth and Harvick joined Jimmie Johnson as the only three drivers to beat Gordon in the points at least 4 straight seasons tonight too. 457. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Couldn't have said it better Nico. If the Chiefs had a QB they would be unstoppable. 458. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On a rare modern racing topic from me, I was wondering when somebody was gonna mention that the New And Improved Jeff Gordon beat the Old Jeff Gordon in points for just the second time in 9 seasons. Once by one spot, and this year by two. 459. JG24FanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I was wondering when somebody was gonna mention that the New And Improved Jeff Gordon beat the Old Jeff Gordon in points for just the second time in 9 seasons." Thanks for the correction. That means that Gordon is 7-2 against Kyle in the points, despite this being Gordon's faded years. And Jimmie Johnson won five title's in the same number of seasons that Kyle has raced in. 460. BON GORDON posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) To my post #419...I forgot Tony Stewart who has 13 Top Ten points finishes 461. JP88 posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Man...just so sad that Jr. couldn't win this one...it looked like he had it but I could not be more proud of him. So damn good in the chase, possibly could of gotten a 2nd or 3rd place points finish if not for the Chicago race. Just so frustrated with all the 2nds and 3rds, while guys like Newman get a win out of nowhere. Maybe 2014 can be his year to pile up some wins. 462. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.17.2013 - 11:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Now it is my turn to make some lists. But don't worry, it won't be any of these best driver lists. Those alternately bore me and annoy me at this point. We need to make fun lists. Here is one for my fellow wrestling nerds. Ever since the Braves announced they are building a new stadium in Cobb County, GA I have been majorly nostalgic thinking about The Big Bossman and his old theme song. And it got me to thinking. Best wrestling theme song from the late 80s/early 90s: 1) The Ultimate Warrior. This wasn't influenced by the fact The Warrior was my favorite wrestler as a kid. With that driving guitar riff and pounding drums, how could he not sprint to the ring and shake the hell out of the ropes? Gets me pumped up everytime I hear it. 2) Hulk Hogan Real American: I was never a Hulkamaniac, and Holy Cow this song is cheesy. But it has an undeniable charm and also gets you pumped. An iconic sports anthem. 3) Big Bossman Hard Time: Cheesy at first glance, with lyrics like "He carries a big stick, a ball and chain too" and constant reminders of "Hard Time" you could argue this song and the Bossman were the precursors of the Attitude Era. Theme song loaded with double entendres, unnecessary police brutality that the fans loved, a very non PC confederate flag on his uniform. Funny thing is, his reinvention as an evil SWAT type guy in the Attitude era was pretty damn cool too. 4) Million Dollar Man: Ted DiBiase's laugh was worth a million bucks, and his speak over parts were just fun. When Shane McMahon became an on screen character, he was useless in every storyline he was part of with the exception of that first one with Stone Cold, and had that horrible "Here comes the money" song. He should have used this one. 5) Legion of Doom: UUUUUAAAAAAHHHHHHWWWWWWHATARUSH!!! Smiling yet? You should be. 463. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.18.2013 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Although I would rather have seen pretty much anyone else win the championship, at least Jimmie did it by winning more than one race which is more than what Austin Dillon and Matt Crafton can say about their titles this year. I'm just glad that this season is over, to me there weren't many great moments except for the Talladega winners and seeing Ryan Blaney show what he is made of in Trucks. I'm also glad that with the offseason here, I can focus on things other than racing like catching up with my favorite TV shows, or doing outside activities like jogging or biking. 464. BON GORDON posted: 11.18.2013 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) To me the top twelve best active drivers as of right now are as follows (2010-2013): #1. Jimmie Johnson- 19 wins,65 top 5s,92 top 10s, 6,159 laps led, 2 championships, 4 chase appearances, 4 top ten points finshes #2. Matt Kenseth- 13 wins,43 top 5s,74 top tens, 3,246 laps led, 4 chase appearances, 4 top ten points finishes #3. Kyle Busch- 12 wins,53 top 5s,78 top 10s, 5,389 laps led, 3 chase appearances, 2 top ten points finishes #4. Kevin Harvick- 12 wins,39 top 5s,80 top 10s, 1,285 laps led, 4 chase appearances, 4 top ten points finishes #5. Jeff Gordon- 6 wins,43 top 5s,70 top 10s, 2,843 laps led, 4 chase appearances, 4 top ten points finishes #6. Denny Hamlin- 15 wins,37 top 5s,57 top 10s, 3,223 laps led, 3 chase appearances, 3 top ten points finishes #7. Tony Stewart- 11 wins,35 top 5s,60 top 10s, 1,984 laps led, 1 championship, 3 chase appearances, 3 top ten points finishes #8. Brad Keselowski- 9 wins,32 top 5s,55 top tens, 1,550 laps led, 2 chase appearances, 2 top ten points finishes #9. Carl Edwards- 5 wins,40 top 5s,74 top 10s, 2,108 laps led, 3 chase appearances, 2 top ten points finishes #10. Clint Bowyer- 6 wins,31 top 5s,76 top 10s, 1,487 laps led, 3 chase appearances, 3 top ten points finishes #11. Dale Jr.- 1 win,27 top 5s,62 top 10s, 937 laps led, 3 chase appearances, 2 top ten points finishes #12. Kurt Busch- 4 wins,29 top 5s,54 top 10s, 2,079 laps led, 3 chase appearances, 1 top ten points finish 465. BON GORDON posted: 11.18.2013 - 12:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Brad K also has a championship as we all know....forgot to put that in too. 466. Dustin posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) Sounds like the 48 failed post race inspection but Nascar is not going to do anything about it. Unbelievable. 467. 18fan posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This year marks the 3rd time (2003 and 2006 were the others) that Johnson, Kenseth, Harvick, and Junior all finished in the top 5 in points. 468. b4il3y posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) They failed? Well..maybe something should happen. But it wont. Ill give Chad this.. at least he said were getting drunk as hell without saying it :) 469. BON GORDON posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll give each driver in the Top 15 a report card grade for the season: #1. Jimmie Johnson- A+, fantastic season, won 6 races and 24 top ten finishes, lead nearly 2,000 laps and most importantly won his sixth championship. #2. Matt Kenseth- A, arguably his best season with a series leading 7 wins, needs to work on his consistency a little bit more and he can be champion again. #3. Kevin Harvick- B+, another solid season in the books for Harvick, doesn't lead a lot of laps but somehow sneaks into victory lane. Single digit top fives keep him from an A. #4. Kyle Busch- A-, earns his best ever points finish, also tied for the second most top fives and top tens and won 4 races, Finally a solid chase for Kyle. #5. Dale Jr.- B+, Jr. had a very good season, he's just missing that 5% to get him those victories, tied for the second most top tens, had a fantastic Chase despite the engine failure at Chicago. No wins keeps him from an A. #6. Jeff Gordon- C+, Fairly good chase, nice win at Martinsville, had single digit top fives for the first time since 2005, and only had 17 top ten finishes. However, he finished sixth in the standings which is his highest points finish since 2009. Needs to work on consistency. #7. Clint Bowyer- B-, Not as good as 2012 but still a solid points finish, had the third best average finish this season (11.9). No wins but 10 top fives and 19 top tens is solid. #8. Joey Logano- B, What an improvement a team change did to Logano this season. Very good year for the Penske driver. His first ever top ten points finish. He won at Michigan but a blown engine at Chicago and subpar finishes at Charlotte and Talladega killed his chase. #9. Greg Biffle- C-, This team and driver are capable of more. Fords overall had a down year. Biffle's lone win at Michigan was the biggest highlight for team. Only 4 top five finishes and 13 top tens were the weakest of anyone in the chase. Still makes a C for making the chase and earning a top ten points finish. #10. Kurt Busch- B, I would've never guessed this team and driver would make the chase and finish in the top ten in points before the year began. The chase didn't go the way the wanted at all but Barney Visser and company still gotta be happy. No wins but still managed 11 top fives and a pole. #11. Ryan Newman- C, Kansas and Martinsville did him in for this years chase but having a win at the Brickyard and earning 18 top ten finishes has to feel good. Not enough top fives and a lack of consistency has always been a problem for Ryan Newman. #12. Kasey Kahne- C-, From Atlanta on this team struggled mightily. 2 wins and 11 top tens were the high point. Only earning 3 top tens in the final 12 races of the year was a low point. 14 top tens is very disappointing and finishing 12th in points with Hendrick Equipment can't make Kasey feel good. #13. Carl Edwards- C, It was an improvement over 2012 for sure. The first 16 races up to Sonoma looked great for Edwards. He sat 2nd in points. After a 35th place finish at Dover and a 37th at Texas this team was ready for 2014. Only earned 9 top fives but had 2 victories. A lot of room for improvement for next season. #14. Brad Keselowski- D+, Man what a difference a year made. Last years champion didn't even make the chase this season. Way too inconsistent! Nice win at Texas and finished off the season strong. I look for the blue deuce to make the chase next season and improve on a subpar 2013. #15. Jamie McMurray- C-, For McMurray's standards it was solid season. I'm sure the #1 team wanted more but for Earnhardt/Ganassi Racing it's right at par. Great win at Talladega and had a total of 9 top ten finishes in 2013. 470. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) After reviewing the facts, I've decided David Pearson will hold onto 4th on my all-time list and Johnson will remain 5th. I DO believe Pearson should be penalized for not running more races. Just my personal opinion and, frankly, I don't care if anyone disagrees. Maybe I'll change my mind one day. 471. TheTruth� posted: 11.18.2013 - 4:39 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I've read many more quotes today about Jimmie Johnson hating being raced hard, and it surprises me every time. I mean, he's not even the worst about that on his team. Jeff Gordon complains incessantly when people race him hard, and he gets furious when someone dishes him an aggressive move that he's made a career out of doing. We've seen some amazing finishes with Jimmie Johnson and other cars, with Jimmie coming out on the winning AND losing ends, and the vast majority of the time, he's extremely classy about it and doesn't complain. When he feel like he got used up or raced in a way that he wouldn't race his competitors, he sporadically says it... and his reputation is built on THAT. It's sort of ridiculous, honestly. It's turned into some "weakness" of his that people just obsess over. Well, hate to be the bearer of bad news, but apparently it's not much of a weakness. 66 wins, 6 championships later, that stuff is hard to do if you can't handle getting raced hard! 472. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with Post 471. Gordon has become the brunt of jokes in my family, even if he has now ascended to second-favorite driver by virtue of Burton dropping out of full-time competition. Top 10 NASCAR driver list: 10. Lee Petty *King of Nascar's first 'dynasty'* 9. Herb Thomas *if memory serves right, highest win out of start ratio. You don't get there without having something great. Who knows what he could have done in a full carrer!* 8. Bobby Allison *tie with Darrel Waltrip. Allison has more Daytona 500 wins* 7. Darrel Waltrip *tie with Bobby Allison. Waltrip has more championships* 6. Jimmie Johnson *Still Behind Yarbrough, Gordon, and Earndhart. All of those three have more wins and all of Johnson's championships/second places come in a small 11 year span. I find it more impressive if you do it alot over a long period of time like 20 years then all in a perfect row. Also, agianst him, he is mostly fighting above-mediocre level second-tier drivers and fading legends. Earndhart was fighitng various types of legends in his prime, as was Petty and Yarbrough* 5. Cale Yarbrough *Tie* *Only loses because compared to Gordon and Earndhartm Numercially Yarbrough is short on Titles and is only ahead of Dale in wins. to his favor, four Daytona 500 victories across three different decades is a statistic worth note, along with his ability to qualify and run extremely well at Pre-Restrictor Plate 'Dega and Daytona.* 4. Jeff Gordon *Tie* *Only loses because his amount of wins and seconds in championship points span across 13 years, but to his favor, he has triple the Daytona 500 victories to Dale Sr. However, Cale has more Daytona 500's and three straight seasons of championships, something Gordon came clsoe to, but was unable to seal the deal with* 3. Dale Earndhrt *Tie* *Only breaks tie with Gordon and Yarbrough because he was able to stay a competitive factor longer then Gordon did AND he won/finished second in Championship points over a span. Against him though is that he won fewer races then Gordon or Yarbrough* 2. David Pearson *Obvious reasons. probably would have won 125 races if he ran consistently with his talent* 1. Richard Petty *Obvious. Even if you penalize him for Dale Inman, he still has more Daytona 500s and infinitely more races* Also, I will now call Johnson GOAT for his 'great opportunistic' abilities. That was one reason I put him ahead of Allison and Waltrip, he never truly choked on a championship save for 2011. 2004 he did all he could, 2005 was blown tire and Stewart was a juggernaut, and 2012 was mechanical failure. 473. jabber1990 posted: 11.18.2013 - 11:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson has won in 3 generations of Racecar, Gen-4, Gen-5, and Gen 6, has anyone else ever won championships in 3 diffrent generations of cars? 474. David posted: 11.18.2013 - 12:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Now it is my turn to make some lists. But don't worry, it won't be any of these best driver lists. Those alternately bore me and annoy me at this point." Good, because your best driver lists tend to tick off half the board at once. ;) "I DO believe Pearson should be penalized for not running more races." That's the main reason why he isn't #1 on my list. He wasn't committed to running the full schedule after 1969. Still, three titles in four full-time seasons is pretty darn impressive. "As far as point system controversy, that is news to me." Oh yeah. Prost outscored Senna 105-94 overall (the R-R page on the 1988 Australian GP actually shows this), but because Prost DNFed twice and finished first or second in the other fourteen races--which meant he dropped three second-place finishes, worth 18 points--and Senna's worst classified finishes were tenth, sixth, and fourth (worth four points), Senna won the title because his eleven remaining finishes were better than Prost's. (whew) And a similar situation happened in 1964 when John Surtees won the title over Graham Hill, only back then non-classified finishes were also eliminated when counting a driver's best finishes. From 1963-65, the six best finishes were counted. Surtees's best finishes were 2, 3, 1, 1, 2, and 2 (he DNFed the other four), and Hill's best were 1, 4, 2, 2, 2, and 1. Now, since his four eliminated finishes included a fifth (worth two points at the time) at Spa, he would have outscored Surtees 41-40 had all the finishes counted toward the title. But since he lost two points and Surtees didn't lose any in the elimination, Hill lost the title by one point. *everyone in the room has passed out from either boredom or incomprehension* 475. Scott B posted: 11.18.2013 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With the win by Hamlin, Joe Gibbs Racing joins Hendrick as the only organizations to have three different drivers score Cup wins in 2013. JGR had 12 Cup wins total to 9 for Hendrick. Hendrick just misses going 4 for 4 with drivers winning, but Junior ends up with 10 tops fives including 5 second place finishes, but no win. These two organizations clearly have the deepest talent pools in the sport right now. Roush, Penske, Childress and the other multi-car teams were all a step or two behind this season. 476. Paul posted: 11.18.2013 - 12:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although it has not yet been officially announced, expect to see Joe Gibbs Racing drop to only three cars in the Nationwide Series. They've just announced the return of two of their 2013 sponsors, OneMain Financial and Sport Clips, in which OMF will return ad being the primary sponsor of Elliott Sadler and the #11 NNS team, along with being an associate sponsor on two other JGR Nationwide entries (Pretty much a dead giveaway that one entry will be scrapped.). Expect to see the #54 and #18/#20 entries return with similar driver lineups as they had in 2013 (Kyle Busch and others in the #54, Matt Kenseth and others in the #18/#20.). I'm not sure whether or not all three JGR cars will be full-time in 2014 (The #18 car was a part-time entry in 2013.), but I do know that developmental driver Drew Herring will return to the team for at least one race, driving the 3rd NNS entry at Chicagoland next September, and will most likely be the fill-in driver of the #54 car whenever Kyle Busch isn't racing. 477. Num1hendrickfan posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Paul post 476 It's good to see drew Herring returning to Gibbs next year in some capacity, he has run quite well in the races he's been entered in and hopefully he will be one of their full timers in 2014. 478. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) "Jimmie Johnson has won in 3 generations of Racecar, Gen-4, Gen-5, and Gen 6, has anyone else ever won championships in 3 diffrent generations of cars?" Earnhardt. Gen 2, 3, and 4. And if you are looking for degree of difficulty, he won titles with two different wheel bases (110" for his first title in '80, 105" for his other 6), won 3 titles with all races on bias ply tires ('80, '86, '87), 1 championship during the years they were phasing out the bias plys in favor of radials meaning some races were on bias plys, some were on radials ('90), and 3 titles strictly on radials ('91, '93, '94). He won championships with 3 different crew chiefs, Doug Richert (Crazy Jake Elder was crew chief for the first 1/3 of the season) in '80, Kirk Shelmerdine in '86, '87, '90, and '91, and Andy Petree in '93 and '94. And, of course, 2 different car owners (Rod Osterlund and Childress). And here is the thing about Dale: he was BORN to race on bias ply tires on those old boxy battle tanks. Yet, in his career, he only races 3 seasons on championship caliber teams during the bias ply battle tank era, winning all 3 ('80, '86, '87). In '88 the first and most damaging tire war happened with RCR struggling to adapt (imagine that), then in '89 they began the transition from bias plys to radials (ironically Dale won the first race on Goodyear radials at North Wilkesboro on my Mom's 34th birthday). In 1989, the Chevrolet's also made a mid season model change in May from Dale's beloved fast back Monte Carlos to the new AeroWar Lumina which was very aero sensitive when damaged. So although Dale led the most laps in '88 and '89 (part of his unprecedented 5 consecutive seasons of leading the most laps) they had trouble getting to the finish without troubles which cost them championships. In '88, finishes of 10th at Richmond (one lap down after leading 151 laps), 14th at Bristol (40 laps down after leading 95 laps), 13th at Charlotte (6 laps down, 5 lap penalty for punting Bodine), 16th at Dover (5 laps down), 33rd at Pocono (blown engine) and 29th at the August 21 race at Michigan (dropped cylinder, 6 laps down) left him pretty well out of the title race by that point. Especially as Bill and Rusty in their aerodynamically superior TBird and Grand Prix respectively tearing it up. A strong September brought him within 127 points, but a tire failure at Charlotte causing him to finish 17th, 6 laps down after leading 83 laps and a 6th at Wilkesboro (107 laps led, late race penalty after a bumping match with Rudd) killed his long shot hopes. And in '89, despite leading almost 2800 laps, in just the first 20 races he had finishes of 33rd (35 laps led), 16th (74 laps led), 38th (blown engine), 17th, 18th (33 laps led), 17th, and 14th (145 laps led). This kept Rusty within 53 points heading into a strong September when Dale won twice (the Southern 500 and Dover) then his epic run of bad luck in October. If they could have eliminated half the early season troubles, Rusty would have been too far back to take advantage. I mean, look at Dale's career arc. That is why I have him as the GOAT (that's as far as I'm going with driver rankings). First off, this pokes a lot of holes in the "RCR gave Dale bulletproof equipment" theory. It's just that in '86 and '87 he had a bulletproof battle tank to drive with tires he could slide all over the place on. The result was, in 58 races over those 2 years, in fields loaded with legends, he won 16 times, led over 5500 laps, and ran off and hid with both titles. Those were the only two years of his career where he had the experience, the team, and the rules right in his wheelhouse. Then you have to look at how many "lost" years he had. '81-'83 was spent with cars that could not hold up mechanically. '84-'85 he had to wait for RCR to advance to his level (when he joined in '84, RCR was just in their 3rd year as a non independent team). '88-'89 threw transitions at RCR that they couldn't handle. In '95, RCR was embarrassingly behind the new engineering wave and of course '96-'99 had Dale's bone crunching injuries, RCR falling even further behind the engineering curve, The Albatross That Was Mike Skinner, and Father Time catching up to Dale. Over those 4 seasons he still won 6 times and finished 4th, 5th, 8th, and 7th in points. All that and he still won 7 championships (14 Top 5 points finishes in 22 seasons!!!), 76 races, has an 11% winning%, led 25,713 laps, led 405 of his 676 starts, and finished on the lead lap in 352, or better than half, of his 676 starts. Considering how things were for the majority of his career, 6th place RARELY finished on the lead lap until about 1993, that is DAMN impressive. Greatest ever. 479. We need more Onion posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh man, lists... I love lists. So many of you done best F1 drivers lists, so I'll do one AND I'll do one of the best winless F1 drivers too. 1950-onwards Best of the best: 1.Alberto Ascari 2.Jim Clark 3.Michael Schumacher 4.Juan Fangio 5.Gilles Villeneuve 6.Sebastian Vettel 7.Alain Prost 8.Ayrton Senna (Deal with it) 9.Jack Brabham 10.Graham Hill +1 Mario Andretti (GOAT imo, but not done enough in F1 to be in the top 10) Best winless F1 drivers, with a little explanation 1. Chris Amon - Just look him up, seriously. Hill(?) said that if Chris became an undertaker, people would never die again. 11 podiums, 5 poles, 13 different teams, no idea how to choose a team. But survived the 60's and the 70's. Even tried to launch his own team, never even got to start a race with them. 2. Jean-Pierre Jarier - Really fast, but totally unreliable. Few of you might have heard of Shadow Racing, he scored 2 poles with them, broke down almost every race. When he got a golden chance, Peterson's Lotus for 2 races, he started from the pole and lead every lap until his car lost oil pressure. 3.Nick Heidfeld - Could finish 2nd anytime, Williams signed him too late and with Kimi's arrival McLaren totally screwed him, no matter he had a proper F3000 title and easily beaten Kimi in 2001, he got no good chances until the aforementioned Williams seat, then he got injured. Stayed loyal to the Sauber team when they were mediocre, resulting in a good seat, but there always were 4-6 better CARS than his. 4.Jean Behra - Apparently one of the most intelligent drivers of his era, always had inferior machinery, yet a consistent scorer. Countless wins in lower formulae, his temper cost him a Ferrari contract. 5. Stefan Johansson - Most of you know this guy, tactical genius, never had any luck in the McLarens and got the Ferrari seat when they were not up for wins. Got a podium in an Onyx, a car struggling with pre-qualification. 6. Ricardo Rodríguez - Died at the age of 20, after already having a contract with Ferrari, regarded as the next Fangio. 7. Gabriele Tarquini - Never given a real chance, I guess I am just speculating in his case, but qualified cars which were 4(!) years old (AGS JH25B), got top 10 grid spots in a Fondmetal and even run for points places in a Coloni. 8. Stefan Bellof - You think Senna would have won the 1984 Monaco GP had it not been red-flagged? No, Bellof was closing up on him very fast, and would have caught him easily. Showed enough speed to make Enzo Ferrari draw a comparison between him and Gilles Villeneuve. Sadly, just as Gilles, he died in an accident of his making, aged only 27. 480. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "8.Ayrton Senna (Deal with it)" I don't know much about F1, but I know enough to know this is going to ruffle some people's feathers. 481. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh yeah. Prost outscored Senna 105-94 overall (the R-R page on the 1988 Australian GP actually shows this), but because Prost DNFed twice and finished first or second in the other fourteen races--which meant he dropped three second-place finishes, worth 18 points--and Senna's worst classified finishes were tenth, sixth, and fourth (worth four points), Senna won the title because his eleven remaining finishes were better than Prost's." Again, I have a VERY limited knowledge of F1 and its history. But just roaming through some numbers, would it be out of line to say Prost was better than Senna? I know numbers only tell part of the story, and I know the points system is the points system, period. That's why I always maintain you cannot discredit Jimmie's titles because of the chase (there are a million other reasons why you can discredit them, but not the chase). But looking over this incredible Prost vs Senna rivalry, I can't shake the feeling that Prost was better. Am I wrong? 482. We need more Onion posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""8.Ayrton Senna (Deal with it)" I don't know much about F1, but I know enough to know this is going to ruffle some people's feathers." Yep, I know, but Ayrton, despite the astonishing talent he had, could not drive under pressure well enough and made many mistakes even when not having to worry about other drivers breathing down his neck. He also could not preserve his car, not had the tactical sense of Prost or Stewart, so if it was not in the most reliable ride of the field he would not win more than 1-2 races a year. Exception: 1993, amazing year with inferior Ford engines and an aging design. Eveyone knows about how he liked to wreck people, but so did Schumi. To have some positive thoughts here, I would also like to express that I am not trying to lessen him amongst the racing gods, probably the best over one lap, ever and an amazing man. "I'd love to have some good F1 history discussions sometimes." Pierre-Henri Raphanel only got through pre-qualification once in his career, but then he qualified in the 18th spot, ahead of Piquet and Arnoux. Yea, totally random fact. 483. Jim Davis posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I notice that three chase races were won by nonchasers this year. Has this happened before? 484. We need more Onion posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I can't shake the feeling that Prost was better. Am I wrong? " It's like boobs or butts, everyone knows both and adores both, but somehow likes one better than the other. In my view it is Prost. Would not want to write too much of my opinion again, so here is a little story instead. 1988 Italian GP - Prost is 4-6 seconds behind Senna, but he knows he is going to blow up. So Alain decides to switch turbo pressure to the max and chase down Ayrton and maybe force him into a mistake. He makes up a second per lap (on Senna, so it's no small feat) and arrives behind Senna, who starts to drive faster and think less. Prost was successful and Senna lost his rhythm and continued to drive with the higher pace, even though he was in no danger of losing. On lap 49, he made a mistake and cut down in front of J.L. Schlesser, who was 2 laps down totaling his McLaren. Berger won and the tifosi exploded. But Senna was a god amongst men in rain, Prost was rather a lame duck and somewhat afraid to race in the wet. 485. We need more Onion posted: 11.18.2013 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry, it was actually on the penultimate lap, lap 50. 486. 18fan posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If I remember what I've read correctly, Prost's dislike of racing in the wet was a result of when Didier Pironi suffered career-ending leg injuries when he ran into the back of Prost's car in the wet in practice at Hockenheim. 487. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Onion. I appreciats the response. I am trying to be more knowledgeable in other fields of motor racing. And btw, its boobs all the way lol! 488. David posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Again, I have a VERY limited knowledge of F1 and its history. But just roaming through some numbers, would it be out of line to say Prost was better than Senna?" Nope. He has more wins AND more championships. Prost is "penalized" historically because 1) he wasn't nearly as well-liked among his fellow drivers, and 2) he didn't further the noble cause and die in competition, becoming an instant saint and martyr for future generations of F1 drivers and fans, who will worship him unabated and without end, hailing him as the true savior of motor racing, the one who could no wrong, the one who transcends all mortality and welcomes all true and pure racers into his bosom when they die...HAIL SENNA!! HAIL TO THE ALMIGHTY AYRTON!!! WORSHIP THE OMNIPOTENT AND SUPREME SENNA!! HAIL! HAIL! HAIL...sorry I got carried away there. "That's why I always maintain you cannot discredit Jimmie's titles because of the chase (there are a million other reasons why you can discredit them, but not the chase)." Now you say it. 489. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Again, I have a VERY limited knowledge of F1 and its history. But just roaming through some numbers, would it be out of line to say Prost was better than Senna? I know numbers only tell part of the story, and I know the points system is the points system, period. That's why I always maintain you cannot discredit Jimmie's titles because of the chase (there are a million other reasons why you can discredit them, but not the chase). But looking over this incredible Prost vs Senna rivalry, I can't shake the feeling that Prost was better. Am I wrong?" I guess you could say that, but in terms of raw driving talent, I'd have to go in favor of Ayrton. He could overcome mid race problems quite unbelievably. Again I mention the 1989 Japanese Grand Prix, when Senna was forced to pit for wing damage as the leader after his contact with Prost on lap 46 of 53. In the last six laps of the race, he made up a 10+ second defecit to leader Alessandro Nannini and came back to win the race (of course, he was later disqualified for using the escape road to rejoin the race). 490. Sector posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Jim Davis' 483 comment: Half of the chase races won won by both chasers & non-chasers in 2006. Chasers: Kevin Harvick won 2, Jeff Burton won 1, Jimmie Johnson won 1, Kasey Kahne won 1 Non-chasers: Tony Stewart won 3 races, Brian Vickers won 1 as well as Greg Biffle winning the season finale. On average(Rounded up from 1.7), 2 races will be won by non-chasers. 2004 Two: Joe Nemechek @ Kansas, Greg Biffle @ Homestead 2005 Two: Dale Jarret @ Talladega, Kyle Busch @ Phoenix 2006 Five: Tony Stewart @ Kansas, Atlanta & Texas, Brian Vickers @ Talladega & Greg Biffle @ Homestead 2007 One: Greg Biffle @ Kansas 2008: Chasers won all 10 2009 One: Jamie McMurrary @ Talladega 2010 One: Jamie McMurrary @ Charlotte 2011 Two: Clint Bowyer @ Talladega, Kasey Kahne @ Phoenix 2012: Chasers won all 10 2013 Three: Brad Keselowski @ Charlotte, Jamie McMurray @ Talladega, Denny Hamlin @ Homestead So to answer to your question: No, we never had THREE wins by non-chasers out of the 10 chase races in a single year, but we have had more than 3, once. 491. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's times like these I wish I was raised with F1 Indycar, and NASCAR evenly instead of a 80 percent NASCAR diet. F1 and Indycar overall would appeal to me more, I just know it. But I no longer have the free time to go and look up, memorize, and watch old races from both of those series. 492. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I hate to admit it, but after this championship, I'm actually starting to appreciate Jimmie Johnson. 493. Aaron posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Prost is a legend, but Senna transformed F1. 494. Aaron posted: 11.18.2013 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gilles over Senna? Somebody's either trolling, or Canadian. 495. We need more Onion posted: 11.18.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The raw pace of Gilles is on par with Clark, he is only (yes, only) 6th because he has no real achievements compared to the other 9. Senna and Prost are a little bit overrated imo, because they raced in an era when F1 became extremely popular. And no, I'm not Canadian. I have no bias for nationalities, as there have only been one F1 driver from my country. And he was not exactly a good one :) 496. The Sound posted: 11.18.2013 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As much as I love rooting for Jeff Gordon, I have to be honest and call Jimmie the better driver. You can argue extenuating circumstances for this part of Gordon's career, but the fact remains that Jimmie has beaten Jeff in points since 2003. Every year. For the same team. That fact alone is close to impregnable. 497. Aaron posted: 11.18.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gilles was a great one, I certainly don't deny that. What he could do when it mattered in qualifying sessions is probably only matched by Senna and Schumacher. And yes, I find myself curiously waiting to see if/when Jimmie Johnson wins his 7th and 8th Sprint Cup titles. 498. ch posted: 11.18.2013 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor Changes: 7 - Florida Lottery Chocolate Covered 7's 30 - Lean1 Healthy Performance Shakes (Same for Michigan-2) 33 - Circle Sport 36 - United Mining Equipment / Pitt Lite 40 - Circle Sport 499. Jim Davis posted: 11.18.2013 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Thanks, Sector. I had forgotten about Stewart not making the chase in 2006. 500. Jared DiCarlo posted: 11.18.2013 - 5:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) If y'all would excuse me, I'm taking a four month sojourn to my Donny Lia bucket. 501. Dense Drip posted: 11.18.2013 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What do y'all think will be the 2014 Champion? I think it'll be Matt Kenseth. 502. cjs3872 posted: 11.18.2013 - 5:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not the foremost expert on F1, but I know enough to know that Ayrton Senna was F1's version of Dale Earnhardt, in almost every way possible, but one. He was a better qualifier, quite possibly the greatest qualifier in F1 history, while Earnhardt was, by his own admission, an average-to-poor qualifier. But if you look at their in-race driving styles, i's almost like looking at he exact same driver, and both are considered by many to be their era's greatest in their chose form of the sport, even if neither was the winningest in their chosen eras. (Senna was second in his era in F1 victories to Alain Prost, just as Earnhardt was second in is era in NASCAR victories to Darrell Waltrip.) With that said, it's ironic, and somewhat symbolic that Earnhardt won on the day Senna was killed in 1994. But I also agree with the poster that noted that Jackie Stewart was possibly the most underrated and underappreciated driver in F1 history. Remember that before he even became an F1 star, he came within 10 laps of winning the 1966 Indianapolis 500, as a rookie, when mechanical problems knocked him out. And it was no fluke, as he was outrunning Jim Clark for practically the entire second half of that race, and Clark was the reigning champion, both at Indy and on the F1 circuit. Stewart later became one f the very few F1 drivers prior to 1980 to win three championships (and the first British driver to do so), and knocked Clark off the top of the all-time victory list, and Stewart held the distinction of being F1'a all-time wins leader for about 15 years, until Prost broke his record. And let's also not forget that he's one of the very few performers in any sport about whom it can be said that he went out on top, as he won his third F1 tile in 1973, then retired from driving. Now I wouldn't put Stewart on the top of my list of F1 drivers, but he would be up there among the best, no question. 503. cjs3872 posted: 11.18.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dense Drip (#501), I'll be making my official 2014 NASCAR predictions around Christmas and New Years, as always, but if recent history is any indication, Matt Kenseth's in for a BIG fall in 2014. Those predictions will include a listing of the drivers I think will be in the 2014 Chase, predictions on the major race wins, 2014 Rookie of the Year (which might actually mean something, for once) and other general predictions for the 66th season of NASCAR's top series. 504. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.18.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @490 Jeff Gordon won at Martinsville in '05 while being out of the Chase. 505. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.18.2013 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats too Jimmie, i can't hate. I can only tip my hat and say "well done sir." F1 disscussion? I'll help fill in the blanks. Yes in the 1989 season finale Prost and Senna made contact but Prost know he was there but came down anyway for the chicane. BUT..... Senna got hosed by the FIA (what else is new. Senna wasn't best buddies with the FIA at the time). Senna toke th escape road too repair his wing, which is fine HOWEVER after he got DQ'ed Senna showed the FIA a video back from the 70's of another driver/s taking the same road too aviod an accident (in Sennas case Prosts car) and were not penalized for it. The FIA said "too bad, your DQ'ed. See ya." Senna had a vaild point. But a year later Senna made a simple request too be moved too the outside line because the inside lane was dirty and had little grip for the first turn. The FIA said "nope." So Senna just decided that after what happened too him last year, he'd just wreck Prost for the title like Prost wrecked him. Turn about is fair play. 506. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.18.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "F1 disscussion? I'll help fill in the blanks. Yes in the 1989 season finale Prost and Senna made contact but Prost know he was there but came down anyway for the chicane. BUT..... Senna got hosed by the FIA (what else is new. Senna wasn't best buddies with the FIA at the time). Senna toke th escape road too repair his wing, which is fine HOWEVER after he got DQ'ed Senna showed the FIA a video back from the 70's of another driver/s taking the same road too aviod an accident (in Sennas case Prosts car) and were not penalized for it. The FIA said "too bad, your DQ'ed. See ya." Senna had a vaild point." And the funny thing is that Senna sat idle in the escape road (Casio Chicane) waiting for the safety workers to let him go for about one minute. So that further proved that the penalty was complete bogus. I hate to make conspiracy theories, but both Alain Prost and Jean-Marie Ballestre, the FIA president at the time, were French. And this led to many believing that Jean-Marie was biased against Senna and wanted to help fellow countryman Prost win the title that year. 507. Sector posted: 11.18.2013 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Chad's Hair Plug #504: Oh yeah, that Martinsville win this year made me overlook that lol My bad. So we did have 3 non-chaser wins before, in 2005, after all. 508. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.18.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Again, thanks for the thoughtful responses. It has shed much light for me. Although I do have a question for cjs. He compared Senna to Earnhardt. Did Senna have an equipment relative disadvantage? 509. Eric posted: 11.18.2013 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dense Drip, I have a hard time seeing Matt as the 2014 Cup champion. Drivers that finish 2nd in points haven't won a cup championship the next since Tony Stewart finished 2nd to Jeff Gordon in 2001 and won the title the next year. That means the odds are against Matt. The other problem is Denny could healthy by than and that means Matt's win total could be done. I think the Championship could be done to Brad and Jimmie for 2014. 510. An Aussie Commentor posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) For all of you whinging about JJ's titles, I should remind you that this year, Jimmie Johnson would be champion with or without the Chase. 511. cjs3872 posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, he did early in his career, but once he showed what he could do, McLaren gobbled him up, and the rest, as they say, is history. I believe he once drove for the old Lotus team when it was no longer a competitive team (and after Colin Chapman's death), and won for it total of six times from 1985-'87, winning twice each year for the team. Prior to Senna's success with the team, Lotus had won exactly one race since Mario Andretti's 1978 championship season, that win coming in Austria in 1982, and that win came only after Alain Prost had dropped out while leading with five laps left. Yet Senna came in and won two races for that team in three consecutive years. That may have been more impressive than anything he did afterwards, including his three championships. And the reason I called him F1's version of Dale Earnhardt was his no prisoners racing style, which had seldom been successful previously in F1, and he became a legend by employing it, and now every successful open-wheel driver, whether it's F1 or IndyCar racing uses it. 512. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm going to go out on a HUGE limb and say Kurt Busch wins the championship next year. Also, I have to think Dale Jr. is going to surprise a lot of people next year. He was flat out awesome this year, but never could seal the deal as far as a win goes. Definitely the favorite to win the Daytona 500, in my mind. 513. Scott B posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keep in mind when 5 races were won by non-chasers in 2006, the cut off for making the Chase was still 10, not 12 (or 13 this season). So, three is the highest since the chase field was expanded. 514. murb posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (4) (1) I did this last year too, so I guess I'll do it again. Here are my end of the year awards for Nascar. - Driver Of The Year: Kevin Harvick (The logical choice would be either Johnson or Kenseth, but I'm going with Harvick just because I think it's pretty amazing that he was able to have one of his two or three best years ever while in a lame duck situation. Not only that, but it was for a team that doesn't care about any of its drivers not named "Dillon". So he's my choice for DOTY.) - Crew Chief Of The Year: Jason Ratcliff (Even though his Phoenix blunders were a huge part of why the 20 team didn't win this championship, at the same time he became a legit Cup crew chief this year, so I have to give it to him.) - Owner Of The Year: Rick Hendrick (By default, just because he had all of his teams make the Chase.) - Underdog Of The Year: David Ragan (That Talladega win was probably the best feel good moment in a year that was otherwise miserable.) - Asshole Of The Year: Michael Waltrip (He faked tears of joy after he knowingly cheated one of his cars into the Chase. Luckily, justice was served. Truex left, NAPA left, and Mikey was once again made a fool of.) - The Invisible Man Award: Greg Biffle (He seriously did nothing this year except settle for 2nd in the Daytona 500 and get his usual Michigan win.) - Feud Of The Year: Danica Patrick vs Travis Kvapil (She called him an idiot in Daytona practice, and then got together with him about three or four other times over the course of the year, most notably at New Hampshire where she had one of the worst blown corners I've ever seen in Nascar.) - Breakout Driver: Joey Logano (He became a legit Cup driver, and made me eat SO much crow this year. I give him credit for proving a lot of us wrong this year.) - Quote Of The Year: Tony Stewart's "Dumb little son of a bitch" Rant at Fontana - Finish Of The Year: Aaron's 499 at Talladega - Race Of The Year: Auto Club 400 at Fontana (Best race at that track ever. In second place, I have the July race at New Hampshire, another track that isn't really known for having great racing.) So yeah, there are my post season "awards" for 2013. I'll do my team-by-team 2014 predictions at some point too, but I'm not exactly sure when. I'll probably be popping in and out over the next few days but for the most part I'm gonna take a little break from RR for a bit. I love you all you guys but I need to get away for a minute. It's been a LONG year!!! 515. cjs3872 posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @510, I'll take that a step further. If not for the Chase, Jimmie might have been able to race harder, because he would have had the title locked up going into Homestead. (Kevin Harvick would have been the only other driver eligible for the title, and even he would have been further behind without the Chase, 41 points behind instead of 34. Kenseth would have entered Homestead 65 behind, and officially eliminated). As I've stated before, this might have been Jimmie's greatest overall year, even though he's had seasons where he piled up greater statistics. And it would have been a travesty if Jimmie had NOT won the championship, because he and his team were the best all year long, except for that 4-race stretch where they were experimenting. Sure, Kenseth won more races than Johnson (7-6), but Johnson was better overall throughout the course of the entre season. It's also interesting to note that, with or without the Chase, the four best and most successful drivers this year, Johnson, Kenseth, Harvick, and Kyle Busch finished 1-4 in the standings. Second and third might have been different, but he four best drivers and teams all year finished exactly where they belonged, in the top four spots. Those top four won 21 of the 36 races between them, and nobody else won more than twice. It's also interesting to note that Dale, Jr. finished fifth both ways, even without a win. By the way, Dale, Jr. joined exalted company when it comes to most runner-ups in a season without a win (he had five), and two of the other four he joined, Richard Petty and Terry Labonte, each had their seasons in the same year, 1982. Petty and Labonte combined to finish second 11 times that year, but neither of them won a race in '82. Of course, Dale Inman, Richard's cousin and long-time crew chief, joined Labonte's team in 1983, and they would win a championship together in 1984. 516. jabber1990 posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) actually I belive the "second place curse" occurs when one finishes second to Jimmie, Hamlin broke (or suspended) the curse with his win at Michigan 517. Eric posted: 11.18.2013 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't say who is going win the championship, but who it will between for the final race for a reason. I am not sure yet. I also want to wait to do predictions besides the fact I am not sure how Denny Hamlin's back is going to be between now and Daytona. To me 2014 has a lot of story lines. 1.) The 2014 rookie class. This class is going to very important based on the drivers involved and the 2014 class is going to shape the future of cup racing since Biffle, Stewart, Gordon, and Kenseth were over 40 years old this season. Dale Jr. also is going to be 40 in October of 2014. I am making the age of the 5 drivers a big deal because Biffle, Stewart and Gordon don't appear to be in their prime. 2.) Darlington's race in April 2014. This is a big deal because it might be the final cup race at the legendary track because the idiots in Daytona moving the Mother's Day weekend Date to Kansas. It looks like ISC doesn't want Darlington to have a 2015 cup date. 3.) How Tony Stewart is going to be in 2014 coming back from a broken leg something to watch. Tony is going to be 43 in May of 2014 and that means his injury might affect how competitive he could be coming back from a broken leg. The fact is Stewart was already declining before his broken foot. 4.) How Greg Biffle is going to be in 2014 is something to watch based on age and his contract is up after the 2014 season. Biffle had a down season this year despite making the chase. His 2013 season have been the start of a decline for Biffle based on him turning 44 in December. I mentioned Biffle's age because of What happened to Jeff Burton. Jeff Burton made the chase in 2010 despite turning 43 in June of 2010, but that was Jeff's final time he made the chase. 5.) The future of the 16 car after after 2014 is a big deal since Biffle's contract is up after 2014 season and Greg is going to be 44 years old this December. The other thing is Biffle struggled this year despite making the chase and does Roush want a driver that appears to be on the decline after the 2014 season. The other thing to look at is who Roush wants in the 16 car if Biffle is gone after 2014 since Bayne is a health risk. 6.) Denny Hamlin's health starting the 2014 season is a story line based on his 2013 struggles. How Denny is starting the 2014 season will affect how good he is going to be. 518. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.18.2013 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Steve Smith is living in Aquib Talib's head. Man I love Steve Smith! 519. The Sound posted: 11.18.2013 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The best part about the NASCAR offseason is the Athlon Sports preview. My 2013 edition is worn out! 520. 18fan posted: 11.18.2013 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Charles Johnson just taken out by yet another dirty play by the Patriots. I hate how the media acts like the Patriots are the model organization in the NFL when they are far from it. I have less respect for them than I do for the 48 team. 521. 18fan posted: 11.18.2013 - 10:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I believe the Patriots 3 Super Bowls are tainted by SpyGate. It can't be a coincidence that their postseason record since the scandal is significantly worse than before it happened. 522. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.18.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "2.) Darlington's race in April 2014. This is a big deal because it might be the final cup race at the legendary track because the idiots in Daytona moving the Mother's Day weekend Date to Kansas. It looks like ISC doesn't want Darlington to have a 2015 cup date." Disagree 100% with you on this one. I expect Darlington to not only have a date in 2015, but for that date to be on Labor Day weekend. 523. JRacingFast posted: 11.18.2013 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bold prediction.....One of the rookie canadites will win a restrictor plate race next year 524. cjs3872 posted: 11.18.2013 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 18fan, another reason for the Patriots post-season record not being as good as it was prior to the 2006 season has to do with the law of averages simply catching up to them. Remember that when they beat Jacksonville in the first round of the 2005 playoffs, that made the Belichick-Brady combo 10-0 in the post-season. There was no way that could possibly continue. What's happened with the Patriots in the post-season since is more like what happens when the best teams face each other. You're going to win some, and you're going to lose some. Sure, they've not won the Super Bowl since (though they've been back twice), but they've got Eli Manning to thank for that, because he's come back on the Patriots to win the Super Bowl not once, but twice in the final minutes. If the Patriots had held on to win even one of those two Super Bowls, I think everyone would be singing a different tune about the Pats. And let's not forget that they've also not won the Super Bowl since Adam Vinatieri left for the Colts following the 2005 season, and each of the Patriots' three Super Bowl wins were by a field goal (20-17 in XXXVI, 32-29 in XXXVIII, and 24-21 in XXXIX). 525. David posted: 11.18.2013 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The best part about the NASCAR offseason is the Athlon Sports preview. My 2013 edition is worn out!" Haha, so true!! The Athlon annual preview is easily the best thing published in print that is exclusively for NASCAR. Random discovery: I just realized what a shocking resemblance Joey Logano bears to Richard Petty when he was younger. 526. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.18.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) C'Mon boys. 59 seconds. Hold those Pats! 527. joey2448 posted: 11.18.2013 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF must be sweating bullets right about now.... 528. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.18.2013 - 11:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!! And yes, I was sweating bullets lol. 529. joey2448 posted: 11.18.2013 - 11:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol did ya guys hear Brady yelling at the refs as they were entering the tunnel? BSPN caught some profanity. And if the NASCAR folks were the ones broadcasting the event, they would be apologizing profusely. 530. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.18.2013 - 11:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Brady has been on the good end of enough borderline calls he needs to be kissing the zebras asses instead of yelling at them. 531. cjs3872 posted: 11.19.2013 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But I do think Brady and the Patriots got shafted on that non-call. I think what happened was good old fashioned home cooking by the officials. If this had been played in New England, I think interference would have been called. Of course had it been called, there's still no guarantee the Patriots would have scored on the untimed down that would have followed. Saying this, the game was far more important for the Panthers than it was for the Patriots, because the Patriots are going to win the AFC East (they're still two games up on the Jets and Dolphins), though their playoff seeding could be hurt by this, knowing who they're playing Sunday Night. This loss drops them into a tie with the Colts, and the Bengals are just half a game behind both teams for that all-important #2 seed in the AFC playoffs behind Denver, and remember that the Bengals have a win over the Patriots this season, which may also be critical. A loss to Denver would severely hamper the Patriots' effort to gain the #2 seed, which carries with it a first-round bye and home field in the Divisional Playoffs, hence the importance of having the 2 seed over the 3 or 4 seed. And home field has been vital to a number of teams this season, as six are still unbeaten at home (New Orleans, Seattle, New England, Cincinnati, Denver, and Kansas City). But for the Panthers, this was a much more important win because they keep pace with the Saints, with whom they still have two games left, for a possible NFC South title and the all-important #2 seed in the playoffs, not to mention they still have the 49ers, Cardinals, Bears, and Lions (who currently leads the NFC North, but has a poorer record than Carolina) breathing down their neck at 6-4. 532. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.19.2013 - 2:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But I do think Brady and the Patriots got shafted on that non-call." That wasn't a non-call. A non-call (as in not throwing the flag at all) would have been one thing, but throwing the flags, meaning that the refs obviously saw a penalty, and then picking them up is another thing entirely. Having said that, I'm glad the Panthers won. 533. joey2448 posted: 11.19.2013 - 5:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know, it's funny...I didn't even watch this race on Sunday (I was at my dad's house, he doesn't have cable) and I think that because of that, I didn't get depressed/irritated/frustrated over Jimmie Johnson winning his sixth title. I was staying updated on Twitter, but I was watching the US Grand Prix at COTA, as well as the Bears-Ravens game (which was AWESOME!!!) Even when it finally became official once the race ended, I was perfectly fine with it. I mean, obviously it was almost guaranteed to happen with a 28-point lead, but man did I feel better this Sunday than the two Sunday's preceding it. Now, only 96 days left! 534. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.19.2013 - 6:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) According to Gerry Austin, who was an official forever, the rule is if it is intercepted in front of them, then it is uncatchable and shouldn't be called pass interference. I think that is a dumb rule, but I also think the Tuck Rule is a dumb rule. Like I said, Brady is on the good end of these deals enough times he needs to just take his medicine. 535. Evan posted: 11.19.2013 - 7:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) * Final race for Jeff Burton in the 31, congrats Jeff Burton on a good solid career at RCR, he had a shot back in 2006 to win a title but lost to Jimmie Johnson when he went off on his winning clip. If this truly is the final time in a competitive ride, its been fun to watch. * Final race for Kevin Harvick in the 29, replacing Dale Earnhardt was no easy feat and being able to win at Atlanta in 2001 was no easy feat either. Since then he's won a Daytona 500, a Coca Cola 600 and a Aaron's 499 has delivered highlight finishes in some of those races. It will be sad not to see him racing the 29 any longer but he's been competitive. * 6th title for Jimmie Johnson, puts him behind Petty and Earnhardt who have 7 and it was a pretty foregone conclusion that Jimmie would take this one. It was easy for Johnson to put this one away due to his competition, Kenseth is not one to race a person hard and mess with their focus, he just goes out there and gets the job done, unfortunately Johnson and crew got their job done better than Kenseth did. In case and point, Kenseth was the perfect Jimmie Johnson opponent because his weakness is his strength. * Kenseth in losing still handled himself well, he always does but he had a great year with 7 wins and 2nd place finish though I don't he won't have it as easy as this year, I see more people coming up to take that win total down. * Final time Juan Pablo Montoya will sit behind the wheel of a stockcar for the forseeable future, as much hype as the open-wheelers got for coming to NASCAR back in 2007 and 2008, Montoya was one of 2 that have lasted(Hornish is still with Penske). Besides winning a couple road courses, Montoya's career is marked down as unfulfilled. Montoya brought a lot of attention from the Spanish crowd, it is unfortunate to see the only man from a Spanish speaking nation to win in the Cup Series, leave the sport but with him going to Indycar, he is in his element. * Last race for Martin Truex in the 56 NAPA Toyota, Truex suffered the worst fate of Bpwyer Spin-gate as his sponsor is picking up and leaving, now Truex's future is at Furniture Row Racing and NAPA is looking for other options than MWR. * Kyle Larson deserves a notice, he was largely a footnote to the action but he was able to slide around(even hitting the wall at one point) and hang around to get a 15th place finish. * Most likely Mark Martin's final race, he said he has no plans to race in 2014. Mark Martin has been a great driver for the sport, he has won in three decades, 80's(1989), 90's(1990-1999), 2000's(2000, 2002, 2005, 2009) and he always has handled himself with class and always gets results, if this truly is the last time he races in Cup then cheers to a great Cup career, Mark never won a championship or Daytona 500 but he has won a Coca Cola 600, races at Darlington, and at Talladega twice(one for a race record, caution-free in 1997.) For a time he was also the all-time wins leader in the Busch Series. --The Future-- * Austin Dillon won the Nationwide Championship(he will also be the last Nationwide Champion as the sponsor is leaving.) He now has the chance to become the first driver to win a title in NASCAR's three top divisions, Greg Biffle was once in the driver's seat for that distinction but Biffle's age and decline and Jimmie Johnson's 5 title romp have quieted those predictions. His move to Cup will reignite the Southern crowd which desperately needs a name to get the Southern presence back in NASCAR. * Joey Logano should keep improving, he had a breakout year and won a race and ran well for most of the year and really showed how good he can be. * What is NASCAR going to do with the Gen 6 car next? Races at the restrictor plate tracks this year were boring, except for Front Row Racing's improbable run to the front at Talladega in the spring. * What will happen to Tony Stewart? He will be 43 this year and coming off of knee surgery and will have 2 new teammates(one he did not even sign for) in Kurt Busch and Kevin Harvick. This points to trouble and Tony Stewart had a lot of trouble this year, crashing out early in races at the beginning of the year and frustrations with Joey Logano at California in the spring made the year unbearable and his Sprint car accident does not help matters. * Who will battle Jimmie Johnson for title next year? The title to me, is Jimmie Johnson's until someone steps up and takes it from him, right now Johnson is staring at history and needs some competition from some young guys who are willing to go after him. * The youth movement, sons of racing drivers such as Chase Elliott, Ryan Blaney, Jeb Burton and the Dillons what will their future hold? 536. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 11.19.2013 - 8:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The right guy certainly won the championship,if you add the points up over the 36 races then Johnson led for 33 rounds. He won the title in the traditional way with a race to spare, his dominant effort in that regard. One of the few things missing for Johnson is a dominant season.Nearly all the great drivers have 1 magical season where everything goes right and they destroy the field Gordon 98 Earnhardt 87 Petty 67 Yarborough 77 Waltrip 81. Johnson is just missing that. I know he won 10 races in 07 but Gordon was just as good as him. 2009 was his most dominant in terms of performance but he let a few results slip away. I think he could have 1 or 2 really big years left in him. The 48 team can run top5 at every track except for Richmond, Bristol and the road courses I said in my blog post that Johnson has 4 more years at his peak and I think he will have some big results in the next few years. Kenseth really needed to capitalise on this year, as it is unlikely he will have as good a year next year, especially with Denny making a return. I see no reason why the 48 does not win next years championship as they are on another level compared to everyone else. 537. The Sound posted: 11.19.2013 - 10:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hendrick needs to be thinking about the future a little bit. Jeff will not race beyond five more years or so. Jimmie and Dale are nearly 40, and while I would not bet against Jimmie holding on for another 5-10 years as a championship favorite, we are nearing the time a decline would occur. Kahne has never shown me the ability to be more than a wingman type driver. The question becomes: Is Chase Elliott the man to build Hendrick around for 10 years from now? If I were Hendrick, I would bid the house for Kyle Larson to replace Jeff when he retires. 538. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.19.2013 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And the funny thing is that Senna sat idle in the escape road (Casio Chicane) waiting for the safety workers to let him go for about one minute. So that further proved that the penalty was complete bogus. I hate to make conspiracy theories, but both Alain Prost and Jean-Marie Ballestre, the FIA president at the time, were French. And this led to many believing that Jean-Marie was biased against Senna and wanted to help fellow countryman Prost win the title that year." I buy into that theory, because it is the FIA and i don't need another reason. The FIA is more shady then NASCAR could ever dream of being. "Did Senna have an equipment relative disadvantage?" At that start yes he did, as CJS pointed Lotus wasn't that good (prime years were the 60's and 70's with Jim Clark and few others) but once Senna got too McLaren, he toke off. Look at Nigel Mansell, he never had a 1st-2nd place car until he went too the Williams team but once he toke off too, won the WDC in 1992. 539. Eric posted: 11.19.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Sound, The problem trying to get Kyle Larson is more than Chip's Contract with Kyle. Stewart is one of the people who think very Highly of Kyle Larson. I am mentioning this because Tony Stewart is going be after Kyle Larson as much as Rick Hendrick when Kyle's contract is up based on what the driver line-up for Stewart-Haas. I am saying that because Stewart-Haas has their own driver line up issues in the future. Kurt Busch is fine in age since he was born in August of 1978, but the remaining 3 drivers are drivers that will need to be replaced before Kurt although Danica is younger than Kurt. We know that Stewart is going to be 43 in May of 2014, but it is deeper than that. Danica Patrick Experiment look like a bust at this point with her being the younger of the 4 Stewart-Haas Driver. Kevin Harvick was born in the same year as Jimmie Johnson with the difference is Kevin was born in December instead of September. That means Kevin needs a replacement in the long term because Kevin can have another 5 to 7 year championship threat years left in him unless he ages like Harry Gant, Mark Martin, or Morgan Shepherd. Danica Patrick is a problem for Stewart-Haas. Danica herself admits that she needs help as a driver and wants Mark Martin to help her. That speaks how despite Stewart wants Danica to improve on the track. The problem is the talent isn't their for Danica and I am sure Tony Stewart will be dropping Danica Patrick at some point. 540. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.19.2013 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Predicted 2014 standings: 1. Dale Earnhardt Jr. - 3 wins (yes, I'm serious... he would have been 3rd this year if not for the bum engine at Chicago) 2. Brad Keselowski - 4 wins 3. Jimmie Johnson - 5 wins 4. Kyle Busch - 5 wins 5. Denny Hamlin - 2 wins 6. Carl Edwards - 2 wins 7. Clint Bowyer - 1 win 8. Matt Kenseth - 3 wins (Chase wild card #1) 9. Kevin Harvick - 1 win 10. Ricky Stenhouse Jr. - 2 wins (the 2011 Keselowski of 2014) 11. Kasey Kahne - 2 wins 12. Joey Logano - 1 win (Chase wild card #2) 13. Ryan Newman - 0 wins 14. Greg Biffle - 0 wins (probably his last year with RFR) 15. Jeff Gordon - 0 wins (I think 2015 will be his last year) 16. Martin Truex Jr. - 0 wins 17. Kurt Busch - 0 wins (that 4th SHR team will struggle A LOT) 18. Kyle Larson - 1 win 19. Tony Stewart - 1 win (hope I'm wrong but I think it will be very hard to return to form after such a major surgery - major for a racer at least) 20. Jamie McMurray - 0 wins 21. Austin Dillon - 0 wins (can't see him being much better than Burton) 22. Brian Vickers - 1 win 23. Aric Almirola - 0 wins 24. Paul Menard - 0 wins 25. Danica Patrick - 0 wins (slight improvement) 26. Marcos Ambrose - 1 win (The Glen) 27. A.J. Allmendinger - 1 win (Sonoma) 28. Casey Mears - 0 wins 29. Justin Allgaier - 0 wins 30. Parker Kligerman (Swan) - 0 wins 31. David Ragan - 0 wins 32. Jeff Burton (TBR) - 0 wins 33. David Gilliand - 0 wins 34. Michael Annett - 0 wins 35. Travis Kvapil - 0 wins (20 cautions caused) 36. David Reutimann - 0 wins (15 cautions caused) 37. Josh Wise - 0 wins 541. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.19.2013 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1. Dale Earnhardt Jr. - 3 wins (yes, I'm serious... he would have been 3rd this year if not for the bum engine at Chicago)" Honestly, not that unrealistic. Jr. was probably the third best driver overall this year. If he can just seal the deal... "10. Ricky Stenhouse Jr. - 2 wins (the 2011 Keselowski of 2014)" Agree 100%. "17. Kurt Busch - 0 wins (that 4th SHR team will struggle A LOT)" Disagree 100% "21. Austin Dillon - 0 wins (can't see him being much better than Burton)" Frankly, I think anyone who thinks Austin Dillon is going to struggle is living in a fantasy land. 542. murb posted: 11.19.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lots of crew chief announcements from the past couple of days: - Chad Johnston to the 14. - Daniel Knost (former Ryan Newman engineer) will be Kurt Busch's SHR crew chief. - Mike Kelley reunites with Ricky Stenhouse on the 17 car. - Keith Rodden (former Kasey Kahne engineer) will be Jamie McMurray's new crew chief. - Steve Addington moves over to the 51 and Justin Allgaier (though this one hasn't been officially announced yet). 543. murb posted: 11.19.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "32. Jeff Burton (TBR) - 0 wins" Even if he does run some for TBR, it won't be full time, so I doubt he'll even be that high in points. 544. BON GORDON posted: 11.19.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My 2014 NASCAR SPRINT CUP PREDICTIONS: #1. Jimmie Johnson- It's no contest in my mind. Hendrick will continue to give him the best equipment possible to get #7. He and Chad will be a force next year. #2. Brad Keselowski- Comeback season for sure. Mind games and talk still won't be enough to get title #2. #3. Kyle Busch- Becoming more and more of a consistent driver who can also win. A title is right around the corner, not in 2014 though. #4. Carl Edwards- Another comeback performance. Fords will be faster and Edwards will be more consistent than this year and last. #5. Matt Kenseth- 2nd place points finish curse, yeah a little bit but Kenseth has a strong team behind him. Always a fixture in the Chase. #6. Kevin Harvick- Will be solid but needs a season to be really strong. New people and new surroundings. #7. Jeff Gordon- Always a fixture in the Chase. If he can shake off some bad luck he can still have a great season. If not it will be a similar year to the last 3 or 4 seasons. #8. Dale Earnhardt Jr.- I'm sorry but Jr. will never win a title. Not while Jimmie is his teammate. Still great equipment and a good driver will get him into the Chase. #9. Denny Hamlin- Comeback season as well but I don't know if he will ever be 100% physically or mentally after that accident. Still a good driver though. #10. Tony Stewart- Same as Denny Hamlin. The problem is Stewart is older and has less years in front of him in the Cup Series. #11. Kasey Kahne- Good driver but will struggle with consistency again. I think he's the weakest driver at Hendrick. #12. Kurt Busch- Too inconsistent. Great driver but not championship worthy. He did great things with the lower budget teams though. #13. Ricky Stenhouse- I think he will have a good sophomore campaign. Not Chase worthy yet but close. Big improvement from 2013. #14. Greg Biffle- Age is not on his side and in my eyes will begin to fade starting next season. I don't rank him on the same level with legends like Gordon and Stewart who can drive the wheels off a car if they have too. #15. Joey Logano- A down year from 2013 will happen but we haven't seen the last of Logano but I don't ever see him being a Champion. Just my opinion. Daytona 500 winner: Jeff Gordon- I've always had this feeling he will win one more. He's back on top at Daytona. 4th and final win in the Daytona 500. Southern 500 winner: Kyle Busch- Can drive the wheels off a race car. He will get it done beating Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. Coke 600 winner: Jimmie Johnson- he will return to Victory Lane at Charlotte Motor Speedway. Will have a dominating performance, he will also win the all-star race the week prior as well. Brickyard 400 winner: Jimmie Johnson- Win #5 to break Gordon's record of four wins. Another dominating performance by JJ. 545. Sector posted: 11.19.2013 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Jabber1990's post 516: No, even with a win or 8, the rest of the 2011 season was still horrific for Denny Hamlin. It depends on the situation for how the runner-up finisher's following year plays out for each season though, its not just the wins. I want to share this, I find this interesting myself. Since Tony Stewart won his first championship in 2002 after finishing 2nd to Jeff Gordon in 2001, the runner-up position has, in fact, been a curse the following, unique way: 2003: Martin Martin ends up finishing 17th in points after being a runner-up to Tony Stewart in 2002, despite becoming a co-owner champion for Matt Kenseth this year. 2004: Jimmie Johnson had finished a runner-up for the second year in a row, but with those 8 wins and Kurt Busch's tire coming off at the right time, the curse definitely played a role against Jimmie and to Kurt's luck. 2005: This was the year when we started to ask ourselves, "Is Jimmie Johnson the next Mark Martin, the next best to never win the championship?" This was definitely Tony Stewart's year, but the inconsistency for HMS as a whole, despite all the wins they had, was overshadowing their hopes. Jimmie spun and crashed right in front of the then-race leader Jeff Gordon. This was actually his worst year despite 2011. The drop to 5th in points allowed Jimmie Johnson to win 5 straight championships. 2006: Greg Biffle and Carl Edwards tied for 2nd in 2005(Biffle's 6 wins beats Edwards' 4 for tiebreaker, however), but BOTH, I repeat, BOTH drivers still missed the chase. 2007: Matt Kenseth may had a solid year here, but the four straight finishes of 35-35-26-34, during the chase, certainly didn't help him any, as he was in the double digits in points (10th-12th) from Chase race 2 to 8. This was also Robbie Reiser's last year crew chiefing for Matt Kenseth, which I consider a big hit from the curse learning about the news, after basically growing up together in the NASCAR rankings. 2008: Jeff Gordon was winless for the first time since his rookie season in 1993. 2009: Carl Edwards finished 11th in points in the Chase, winless after a year of season & career high 9 wins in 2008. Also led less than a thousand laps compared to 2008. 2010: Once again, Mark Martin surged to a runner-up in 2009 with 5 wins and 7 poles, only to lose to Jimmie Johnson. 2010 Mark Martin missed the chase, and is winless. 2011: Like Jabber said before, a win @ Michigan broke the curse for Denny? Nahh. Look at this, he had as many top 10's in 2011 has he did top 5's in 2010(14), but only 5 top 5's in 2011. Denny was outside the top 10 in points for 28 of the 36 races. 12th in points the first 5 races in the chase, then slowly moved to 11th & 10th the following 4, to only finish 9th after the Homestead finale race. 2012: The famous tie-breaker between Tony Stewart & Carl Edwards, allowed Carl to practically follow in Denny Hamlin's shoe in 2012 despite a victory. Carl only had 3 top 5's and 13 top 10's after having 19 top 5's and 26 top 10's in 2011. 2013: Clint Bowyer had his BEST year ever in Cup in 2012. 3 wins, beating Jimmie Johnson by a mere 1 point after the chaos with Jeff Gordon the final two races (The fight @ Phoenix & finished 2nd to Jeff Gordon @ Homestead). Look at this, Clint Bowyer went winless this year, but finished 7th, one point behind Jeff Gordon, interesting how that played out huh? But because he snatched the runner-up from Jimmie Johnson last year, he had the curse & Jimmie Johnson can thank him for finally getting Championship #6 without the curse issue. So Matt Kenseth finished 2nd this year. How will 2014 turn out for him? Will it be similar to Mark Martin's first couple of years @ Hendrick Motorsports? Will he have another powerful season like this year to be similar to Jimmie Johnson of 2004, but have one of the those rarest moments(Like Kurt's tire coming off at the right time entering pit road @ Homestead) turn against him in the championship battle? Or will it be another forgettable, mediocre season, or the loss/replacement of a crew member to weaken the team, which could put pressure on them? This was why I didn't want Kevin Harvick to beat Matt Kenseth this year. I, for one, would love to see Kevin Harvick pull through next season with a bang. Nothing against Matt Kenseth, I like the guy, but two years in a row, a driver with a new team making some noise, or two(Kurt Busch), would be entertaining. I know someone like murb, cjs, DSFF or whoever will disagree or add something interesting to the list, but you have to had admit that its an interesting read, at least. 546. MStall41 posted: 11.19.2013 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) My Early 2014 Final Standings Predictions 1. 11-Denny Hamlin (I see him coming back stronger than ever and with a massive chip on his shoulder.) 2. 2-Brad Keselowski (Way too talented to be kept down) 3. 88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. (Was tempted to put him at #1, will hold off until he can get an early season win) 4. 48-Jimmie Johnson (I think the 2014 rules package will throw the team for a loop) 5. 22-Joey Logano (Look for a huge year out of him. He'll be fighting for championships by 2015) 6. 4-Kevin Harvick (Best driver at SHR right now) 7. 20-Matt Kenseth (He'll have a hangover) 8. 18-Kyle Busch (He's impossible to predict. Could be 1st or could be 15th) 9. 99-Carl Edwards (Could be a sleeper if Fords find more speed) 10.55-Brian Vickers (Will surprise many if healthy, criminally underrated driver) 11.24-Jeff Gordon (He's running out of steam) 12. 5-Kasey Kahne (See Busch, Kyle) 13.15-Clint Bowyer (I envision a down year coming his way) 14.17-Ricky Stenhouse Jr. (I expect a sophomore breakout) 15.41-Kurt Busch (Doomed is the only way to describe his situation at SHR) 16.14-Tony Stewart (He's declining, and injuries haven't helped) 17. 3-Austin Dillon (ROTY, way better than everyone gives him credit for) 18. 1-Jamie McMurray (He'll win a few races but be wildly inconsistent) 19.78-Martin Truex Jr. (Lots of speed. No consistency) 20.31-Ryan Newman (He'll be average at best at RCR) 21.43-Aric Almirola (He's hit his production ceiling at RPM) 22.27-Paul Menard (He's hit his production ceiling at RCR) 23.42-Kyle Larson (Will struggle at first, but show flashes of brilliance) 24.13-Casey Mears (RCR alliance will provide a massive boost to team a la Furniture Row) 25.16-Greg Biffle (Yes, he's this low. Expect a Jeff Burton 2011-2012 type decline) 26.10-Danica Patrick (She'll improve to being respectable, may grab a fuel mileage win) 27.47-AJ Allmendinger (Team will have far more speed than 2013, capable of delivering top 15s every week) 28.34-David Ragan (FRM will take another big step, will be considered "competitive" by midseason a la Furniture Row in 2011) 29. 9-Marcos Ambrose (Will be out of the sport by 2015) 30.51-Justin Allgaier (Team itself will be competitive, Allgaier still has much to learn) 31.38-David Gilliland (Slightly less talented than David Ragan) 32. 7-Michael Annett (The lowest of the decently competitive cars. Annett will struggle but team will make huge strides with more funding and RCR alliance) 33.30-Parker Kligerman (By far the best of the "other" teams, will occasionally fight for Top 15s) 34.83-David Reutimann (Team is bad) 35.93-Stephen Leicht (It'll be announced soon) Daytona 500 Winner: Dale Jr. (He's got a great handle on the new drafting style and is as hungry as ever BY400 Winner: Jimmie Johnson (He'll piss off INDYCAR fans by setting an IMS record) Coke 600 Winner: Denny Hamlin (Will be his signature win on the season) Bristol Night Race Winner: Brad Keselowski (His short track prowess will return in full) 547. The Sound posted: 11.19.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) Anyone still interested in a mock NR2003 season to determine the best driver of all time? We would take the top 50 or 75 drivers of all time and then determine their respective best seasons. We would also choose the most important 24 tracks in Nascar history, with half hosting two races. Then, winner takes all for 36 races. If we did the top 75 drivers, we could do weekly heat races to determine the field. How does that sound? 548. jabber1990 posted: 11.19.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) what will the "pecking order" be at SHR next year? all 4 of the drivers are used to being #1...and I doubt one team can handle 4 #1's Danica has an unlimited supply of money behind her, Harvick probably has the second-most amount of money behind him and has been the #1 car his entire cup career, Kurt was the #3 in a 2-car team at Penske, and he was never #1 at Roush so he'll be ok. although he did destroy Finches entire fleet by over-driving shitty cars, Tony, he might also be ok he's accomplished almost everything he's ever wanted to do in a racecar. he doesn't have anywhere near the funding of Danica and Harvick speaking of, do Harvick and Stewart have funding for all the races? 549. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.19.2013 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2014 Prediction: competition overall will go down, but the number of winners will go up 550. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.19.2013 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Going to be the first time I publicly do this, But I'm going to make predictions for NASCAR 2014. Daytona 500 Winner: Tony Stewart, Coming back in Dale Sr style with a chip on his shoulder, ready to kick that one last thing off of his bucket list. He'll dominate the race, or at least run up front all day, partially due to a super-powered car, partially due to LARGE field atrophy in the last third of the race remniscent of the 2005 Aaron's 499. Aaron's 499 Winner: Kurt Busch. That guy is going to squeeze one or two more wins out of his career at least. The guy has talent, he's gone through the f*cking grind, and he's impressed me. If these years haven't pushed him to the point of damaging his talent, he'll be a contender in alot of races. Southern 500 winner: Jimmie Johnson Bristol Night: Brad K. Again, only win situation. Coke 600: Jimmie Johnson Indy 500: ??? Uh...IDK. Seriously. That track is a b*tch to predict for me. It'll probably be Johnson, but still... Championship Battle: Dale Jr, Kurt Busch, and Kevin Harvick fighitng Jimmie Johnson. Dale Jr will drop out after a late chase DNF, and Kurt Busch and Kevin harvick will be driven by a rivalry against each-other and a desire to beat Johnson *Again in Kurt's case*. Johnson, Harvick, and Kurt combined will win at least 12 races in some way, probably the majority going to Johnson. But the Championship will end with Johnson holding his seventh, and likely final, NASCAR title. Rookie of the Year: Going to be close, but I'll say that Austin Dillon and Kyle Larson are both being moved up through the feild to fast. I'd have to give it to Larson though, he's got a Kyle Busch style of driving. Or am I understanding this wrong, and Larson is not coming to Cup in 2014? As a whole, I think 2014 will be a case of Hendrick, or just Johnson, VS Stewart-Haas. Danica will have a good race or two, like she did this year. Stewart will win the 500, maybe another race after that, and then be just about done with his career. Ku. Busch and Harvick will develop an intense rivalry, and it'll drive them to keep up with Johnson. Jr will be able to pull off another remarkably consistent year like he has been doing the last several. Win for Jr? Don't know. Something tells me no, but... Gordon will not win any more races in his career, and he'll start dropping off the radar quite noticeably this year. I know I assumed this in 2010, and he pulled off victories in 2011, but he is getting up there. KC Khane will become Hendrick's R&D car, inadvertently. Shame to see such talent go to waste. Roush racing will struggle all year. Penske will continue to struggle all year, even though Brad K may go on a hot streak mid-to-late summer, allowing him to sneak back into the chase. MWR will plummet WAY downward. No wins. RCR will struggle, if they get one win this upcoming season, I'll be impressed. Truex will impress like Ku. Busch did. Newman will completely drop off the radar. Unlike this year, where we had the 'feel good' stories with Vickers and the Davids, there will be no 'feel good' stories, as Hendrick and Stewart-Haas will dominate. 551. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.19.2013 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pecking order in 2014 for Stewart-Haas. 1. Gene Hass. He'll be the puppet master controlling the strings in his team, pitting his driver *Busch* against Stewart's driver *Harvick*, and will set up for an interesting rivalry. 2. Harvick *tied with KU. Busch* 3. Ku. Busch *tied with Harvick* 4. Stewart 5. Danica. She's going to be dragged around and used as a R&D car while draining casual fans of their money via merchandise. 552. DB1995 posted: 11.19.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Im gonna make my season predictions 1) Matt Kenseth- 8 or 9 wins, with most at 1.5 milers, and 1 Bristol race. 2) Denny Hamlin- 2 or 3 wins, 4) Brad Keselowski- 5 or 6 wins, out performs Hamlin most of season, but a bad race at Talladega during the chase takes him out, wins Bristol night race 5) JImmie Johnson- 5 or 6 wins, but is inconsistent in chase even with wins at Dover, Kansas, and Texas in the chase still only gets 5th in points, wins Indy 6) Joey Logano- 2 wins, both at big tracks, wins Fontana and Charlotte in the chase 7) Carl Edwards- 1 win, wins at Texas1, and makes the chase and is consistently not so great 8) Dale Jr.-3 wins, Phoenix1, Daytona2, and Michigan2, is great throughout the season, but is weak in the chase 9) Kevin Harvick- 1 win, on fuel mileage at a 1.5 miler, Stewart Haas gets weaker from expansion and to much change so soon 10) Kasey Kahne- 2 wins, both Poconos in purely dominating fashion like Johnson in Pocono1 this year, inconsistent season though 11) Clint Bowyer- 1 win, doesn't have speed at big tracks and relies solely on shorter tracks to make the chase 12) Jeff Gordon- 0 wins, consistent in regular season, but blows engines like crazy in the chase Larson has a decent season and barely loses ROTY to Dillon Dillon gets a win at Kentucky and wins ROTY Danica gets 5 or 6 top 10's. gets all 4 plate track poles and wins pole award for the season Biff gets 2 wins Stenhouse gets 1 win Jamie Mac wins Richmond chase decider everyone else has similar to this season statistics Daytona 500- Trevor Bayne pulls another upset passing up a 12 car final lap crash and is #1 in a mostly underdog top 10 Darlington- Biffle wins from pole in dominant fashion, does nextto nothing rest of the year Talladega- Danica Patrick from pole, turns out to be a follow the leader race Coke 600- Brad Keselowski Bristol night race- Brad Keselowski, just cause I will be there Brickyard 400- Jimmie Johnson wins in dominately boring fashion These are really rough as I may have left out some drivers completely on accident, nationwide picks coming soon 553. BON GORDON posted: 11.19.2013 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Listen I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but I promise you on a stack of bibles that Jeff Gordon is not done. What Gordon has suffered through the last few seasons have been bad racing luck. So many times he's run good to have something unfortunate go wrong. I've seen nothing that says he's done. I've heard many times on these boards, "he's done he won't make the chase, he's done winning races." According to a lot of people he was supposed to retire the last five years in a row. Yet he still races, still wins (not as much, I know), still runs in the top eight consistently, still makes the chase (one way or another), and still has that drive and determination. His kids give him that determination. I don't think he will ever win another title or win 105 races. But we all seem to forget sometimes that he's still Jeff Gordon. I think he will end his career better than any legend in NASCAR history. He doesn't have to worry about sponsorship for a couple years, he's got a lifetime contract with the most powerful team in NASCAR, and strong teammates. Luxuries most drivers don't get at the end of their careers. I've said it a million times before and I'll say it again. Gordon will be fine, he will make the Chase next year (before Richmond), he will win 2-3 races next year, and it will be a big improvement over 2013. I'll put $100 down on it right now. 554. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.20.2013 - 11:21 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) BON GORDON, if you are wrong, how do you expect to pay up? 555. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.20.2013 - 11:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You see, Richard Petty had almost the same sort of set up. His sponsor was pretty much guaranteed through the end of his career. Look how much he fell off the top. He fell A-LOT. And Petty, like Gordon, ran nearly his entire career with one organization. I'm looking for a Petty-style glide downward for Gordon. But at least we agree he won't win 105 races or another championship. 556. cjs3872 posted: 11.20.2013 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) D-666, the thing with what happened at the end of Petty's career was that it just wasn't Petty that had that rapid decline, but it actually is entire team that declined. His organization just wasn't good at all, and they probably wouldn't have been that good, even with a better driver in his prime. What's likely to happen with Gordon, and what's already been happening, is more like what happened with Dale Earnhardt from about 1998-2000, which was that he'll have good runs with a win or two thrown in, but will also have some bad runs. The team and driver is good enough to compete for wins, but not consistently good enough to challenge for a championship. But I've already said that it would be more appropriate if Gordon never won another championship, because he was more representative of the way the sport used to be than the way it is now. And with the retirements of Mark Martin, Ken Schrader, and with the status of Jeff Burton and Bobby Labonte in limbo, Gordon's now the last link to when drivers such as Earnhardt, Wallace, Darrell Waltrip, Bill Elliott, and even teams like the Wood Brothers were major contenders, and when the sport was at it's peak. Gordon's now effectively the last link to those days. 557. David posted: 11.20.2013 - 12:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^He seems convinced. "Anyone still interested in a mock NR2003 season to determine the best driver of all time? We would take the top 50 or 75 drivers of all time and then determine their respective best seasons. We would also choose the most important 24 tracks in Nascar history, with half hosting two races. Then, winner takes all for 36 races. If we did the top 75 drivers, we could do weekly heat races to determine the field. How does that sound?" YES. I was just thinking about this the other day and what could have happened to that idea. Now that I look back at it, it ended up devolving into a debate about '80s and '90s drivers vs. the drivers of today. Here's your field--listed alphabetically--of 43: - Bobby Allison (1972) - Davey Allison (1992) - Buck Baker (1957) - Geoff Bodine (1990) - Neil Bonnett (1981) - Kurt Busch (2009) - Kyle Busch (2008) - Red Byron (1949) - Dale Earnhardt (1987) - Bill Elliott (1985) - Fonty Flock (1951) - Tim Flock (1955) - Harry Gant (1991) - Jeff Gordon (1998) - Denny Hamlin (2010) - Dick Hucherson (1965) - Ernie Irvan (1994) - Bobby Isaac (1970) - Dale Jarrett (1999) - Ned Jarrett (1964) - Jimmie Johnson (2009) - Junior Johnson (1965) - Matt Kenseth (2013) - Alan Kulwicki (1992) - Terry Labonte (1996) - Fred Lorenzen (1964) - Mark Martin (1993) - Benny Parsons (1977) - Jim Paschal (1955) - David Pearson (1973) - Lee Petty (1959) - Richard Petty (1967) - Tim Richmond (1986) - Fireball Roberts (1958) - Ricky Rudd (1983) - Tony Stewart (2005) - Herb Thomas (1953) - Curtis Turner (1950) - Rusty Wallace (1993) - Darrell Waltrip (1981) - Joe Weatherly (1962) - Rex White (1960) - Cale Yarborough (1977) Agreed? 558. David posted: 11.20.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^He seems convinced." I meant BON GORDON. I had most of that post typed out last night. 559. David posted: 11.20.2013 - 12:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And change Terry Labonte's best year to 1984. 560. BON GORDON posted: 11.20.2013 - 1:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ha! I don't know I'd pay but if I knew you all personally I would. I'm a man of my word. And I agree with everything CJS has posted. Terry Labonte's 1996 was impressive though. He was with a great team but beating Jeff Gordon in his prime is BIG. 561. BON GORDON posted: 11.20.2013 - 1:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And with Schrader, Martin, Labonte, and Burton gone or just running part time Gordon has become much more popular because he is the last link to the past. I would not be surprised one bit if he wins the Most Popular Driver award. I know many people (friends, family) who once hated Gordon now like him. Not only is he more fan friendly, he doesn't dominate a lot anymore either. Like CJS said he is the last link to the past. 562. Spen posted: 11.20.2013 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Other than Nemechek, anyway. 563. Scott B posted: 11.20.2013 - 4:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was going to mention Joe, too. Being an owner/driver makes him more of a link to the past in my opinion, and he has the underdog appeal even if he doesn't have Jeff's win total. 564. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.20.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @557, I would use Mark Martin's 1998 season and try to squeeze Harvick's 2010 season in there. 565. murb posted: 11.20.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That would be awesome if we did that sim. That would be something fun for the off season. I agree with all of the drivers on David's list, though I might use different years for some of them (for example, I would use 1985 for Neil Bonnett and 1998 for Mark Martin - but that's just me). 566. David posted: 11.20.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I agree with all of the drivers on David's list" In all fairness, it's not my list originally. It's the list Sean posted when this idea originally surfaced. I had my ten drivers down, then I basically said "screw it" and put down all the drivers on his list. I did change a few years, though. If The Sound still needs 50 or 75 drivers, I remember one time Spen posted a gigantic list of the 200 best drivers in history. I could use some from that list, if I can find it. 567. David posted: 11.20.2013 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Found it. He actually listed every driver with at least 100 starts. Here's 32 others for The Sound's list of 75: - Donnie Allison (1970) - Buddy Baker (1975) - Greg Biffle (2005) - Jeff Burton (2000) - Ward Burton (2000) - Clint Bowyer (2012) - Darel Dieringer (1964) - Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) - Carl Edwards (2008) - Charlie Glotzbach (1968) - Paul Goldsmith (1957) - Bobby Hamilton (1998) - Kevin Harvick (2010) - James Hylton (1970) - Kasey Kahne (2011) - Brad Keselowski (2012) - Tiny Lund (1965) - Dave Marcis (1978) - Sterling Marlin (1995) - Jamie McMurray (2010) - Ryan Newman (2003) - Cotton Owens (1961) - Marvin Panch (1957) - Kyle Petty (1992) - Dick Rathmann (1954) - Jim Reed (1958) - Ken Schrader (1988) - Morgan Shepherd (1990) - Jack Smith (1962) - Speedy Thompson (1956) - Bob Welborn (1958) - LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969) Random fact I learned while I was looking up stats: Speedy Thompson finished third in the standings for four consecutive seasons (1956-59). 568. Anonymous posted: 11.20.2013 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone else on here have a WII with NASCAR: inside line? 569. cjs3872 posted: 11.20.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, mentioning Speedy Thompson in 1956 is sure to get DSFF started, because of his role in the crash that ended Herb Thomas' career, though the race in which that occurred should never have been run. He may have had a good season that year, but the highlight of his career came the following year, when he won the 1957 Southern 500, becoming the first man to win a 500-mile stock car race with an average speed of over 100 MPH. 570. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.20.2013 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) The biggest thing is Speedy prevented Herb from being a rightful 3 time champion ('51, '53, '56). If NASCAR is gonna hammer Martin Truex for MWR's antics, then it is long since time they do the right thing and award Herb the 1956 championship In What Is Now The NASCAR Sprint Cup Series. And I don't wanna hear "well, Buck's stats that year blah blah blah". The point sytem is the point system and Herb had it won before Carl K and Speedy's antics. Just like I have always stated you can't discredit Jimmie's championships because of the chase (you can discredit them due to their constant cheating NASCAR's blatant favoritism towards them, Henrdick's dirty business dealings with NASCAR behind the scenes, the overall Hendrick factor, the fact Jimmie screws up 75% of the time somebody races him, and the fact he races nothing but Jimmie Johnson fanboys who are just happy to be on the same track with him so he rarely gets raced), you cannot tell me Herb Thomas isn't the 1956 champ. 571. cjs3872 posted: 11.20.2013 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And the thing about it is, DSFF, how do we know that what happened in that race prevented Herb Thomas from being just a 3-time champion? How do we know he wouldn't have become a 4, 5, or 6-time champion? And you're right about the other drivers Jimmie's racing against (and even the media), to a point. You can count the drivers that race Jimmie hard on one hand, and we've seen what can happen when you do race him hard. 2005, 2011, and 2012 are perfect examples. He's vulnerable, but the drivers of today, for he most part, don't have that in them, for some reason. Now I know it's extremely difficult, if not impossible to race anyone hard because to do that, the cars actually have to be able to stay close to each other, which is nearly impossible at all but a few tracks due to speed and aerodynamics. But even when they can race harder, the drivers of today seldom do, which is why I don't put Jimmie in the same league as the seven ahead of him on the win list. At least, not quite yet. He doesn't get pushed because the drivers of today, for the most part, do not have that mindset. But calling the other drivers and members of the media Jimmie Johnson "fanboys" is going a bit too far. 572. David posted: 11.20.2013 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "David, mentioning Speedy Thompson in 1956 is sure to get DSFF started, because of his role in the crash that ended Herb Thomas' career, though the race in which that occurred should never have been run." Yes, I did consider that possibility. 573. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 11.20.2013 - 11:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He just really cant stand that Brad beat them last year can he?" One of the best parts about Brad winning the title last year is that he proved you can beat the #48 if you just do what you need to do to win a championship. Kenseth faltered at Phoenix and that cost him any shot he had. Martin Truex closes out his tenure with MWR with a Top 5 finish. Wish NAPA had followed him to FRR instead of leaving the sport. I'm still gonna pour crap towards Mikey for that one. Could be Mark Martin and Jeff Burton's last Cup starts unless they get another ride or do part-time duty in the future. 574. BON GORDON posted: 11.20.2013 - 11:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd say Bobby Hamilton's 1996 season was a little better. 575. David posted: 11.20.2013 - 11:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd say Bobby Hamilton's 1996 season was a little better." Well, that depends on whether you consider Petty Enterprises in 1996 a better or worse team than Morgan-McClure in 1998. 576. cjs3872 posted: 11.21.2013 - 12:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @573, Mark Martin has already said that he never intends to drive in the Cup Series again, and judging by how uncompetitive he generally was, I think that's a good decision. And as far as we know, Jeff Burton may never drive full-time in the Cup Series again, but we may see him in a part-time role. And again, one possibility for someone like him or Bobby Labonte would be if, heaven forbid, that #21 car opened up sometime next season due to Trevor Bayne's MS. We know that's a good car for the limited races it runs, and if it were to open up, Burton and Labonte would be two excellent choices, because if there's anything the Wood Brothers want in their drivers, it's someone that takes care of the equipment and finishes the race. And if there's one thing about Burton and Labonte, it's that they've always been able to take care of their equipment. And with few exceptions (Bayne and Sadler being the most noteworthy), the Woods have always valued experience, and if that car does open up next year, Burton and Labonte would likely be on the top of their list of potential replacements for that reason, as well. But either way, I suspect that we haven't seen the last of either Burton or Labonte in the Cup Series. But Martin has said he's done racing in he Cup Series, though I think that Stewart-Haas is going to keep him as a test driver. Certainly, he would be valuable to any team in that kind of a role. 577. Jim Davis posted: 11.21.2013 - 12:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "...Mark Martin has already said that he never intends to drive in the Cup Series again..." More precisely, he doesn't *plan* to. He has also said that he would not rule out filling in for a driver in special circumstances like Stewart's injury this year. 578. Paul posted: 11.21.2013 - 1:28 am Rate this comment: (3) (3) "Mark Martin has already said that he never intends to drive in the Cup Series again" Mark Martin also said that he would be retiring from the Busch Series after the 2000 season (Returned in '04.), retiring from Cup competition after the 2005 season (Returned to Roush in '06.), would drive for Roush's Truck Series team in 2007 after a part-time effort in '06 (Never happened, but it did keep David Ragan from running the full Truck season before being thrown to the wolves in Cup the following year.), only wanted to run a part-time Cup schedule after his run with Roush ended (That lasted for two years.), and wasn't interested in running more than his 24 selected races once he left HMS for MWR in 2012 (Ran 12 of the final 13 Cup races in 2013, including Bristol, Loudon, and Martinsville; none of which were on his schedule at the beginning of the season.). I understand that things happen and plans get changed around (Such as Roush needing Mark to return in 2006 because they needed a driver for the #6 car and couldn't have predicted Jamie McMurray being released by Ganassi one year early.), which I think only strengthens my point. Point being: Take Mark Martin's words with a grain of salt because history shows that his statements and his actions in regards to his plans in NASCAR are often not the same. 579. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.21.2013 - 2:12 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) I don't think its out of line to call the drivers Jimmie Johnson fanboys. None of them ever race him with very few exceptions, and when Jimmie has to actually race, he usually screws up. Seriously, how many "thrilling" moves have we seen from Jimbo? I can't think of any. How many thrilling battles have we seen Jimmie involved in? Very few. And now all these drivers are saying Jimmie is the best ever. Did they watch ANY of NASCAR from 1979-Feb 2001? While we are making lists, here are my Top 10 Dale Earnhardt 3 wide passes: 10) Bristol 1997: With the caution out and the leaders slowing and bunching up, a lapped Dale dives off the banking past everyone to get his lap back. 9) Daytona 1992 IROC: In 3rd place coming to the trioval for the checkered flag, Dale just dives below the two side by side leaders and wins. 8) Atlanta Spring 1990: After dominating the race, a late caution and a stop for tires leaves Dale in 2nd behind Morgan Shepherd plus Kulwicki's lapped car because they didn't pit. Will Morgan steal one? Nope, a quick 3 wide pass seals his win. 7) Daytona 2001: Passing below (ironically) Sterling, Dale nips the backstretch grass to get by. Even until the bitter end, Dale just wanted it more than anyone else. 6) Atlanta 2000: With a late restart in the final race of the year, everyone has their eye on BLab with his fresh tires behind some cars who didn't pit. Well, 49 year old Earnhardt also had new tires. He is 3 wide at one point as he passes everyone, including BLab, except Nadeau. Did I mention he just wanted it more? 5) Talladega 2000 Winston 500: Pick one in those final laps. One final reminder to all other drivers: He is Dale Earnhardt, and you aren't. 4) 1987 The Winston: Just because one car is pointing the wrong way, it is still 3 wide. When Bodine cut across Bill's hood and spun, Dale somehow knew to dive low, passing both leading to the famous pic of the 3 of them (with Bodine backwards) as made the race winning pass. 3) The Real Pass In The Grass, Riverside. While hounding Bodine for the lead in the esses, Bodine gets held up being side by side with a slower car. Dale just cuts through the grass to make the pass like it is nothing. 2) Atlanta 1993: Not the most difficult 3 wide pass ever. But considering it was Lap 3 of the season fonale with Dale only needing a 32nd place finish to clinch the Winston Cup, that pass summed up Dale Earnhardt as well as any. As Ned Jarrett said, "The Man can't stand it, he's gotta race". Dale only lived to compete. Once he put that helmet on, he didn't give a damn about the championship. Yet he won seven. 1) Bristol 1993: That thread the needle pass. You can't do that at Bristol! 580. Scott. B posted: 11.21.2013 - 4:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I believe we really have seen Mark Martin's last Cup race this time around. His official role with SHR is now test driver and mentor to Danica. With Harvick and Kurt coming on board, he may also have the unofficial job of being a role model and peacemaker for an organization packed with Type-A personalities. Yes, he has hinted that he wouldn't rule out filling in for a sick or injured driver, but I think at this point it could only be a SHR or Hendrick driver, so the probability is low. It seems more likely we'll see Jeff Burton or Bobby Labonte in Cup in 2014 than Martin. Bobby sounds pretty open to offers from small time teams, I could see him part time at FAS maybe. Jeff Burton showed more flashes of his old form than either Mark or Bobby, though he could take a cue from Ward and just walk away if he doesn't feel the rides he's offered will be competitive enough to satisfy. 581. The Sound posted: 11.21.2013 - 7:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, thanks for your list! I would like to get about ten or so lists before I finalize the drivers and seasons. At this point, I am looking at sometime during Christmas break to begin the sim, at the earliest. I would need to get all the cars painted and such. 582. The Long Shot posted: 11.21.2013 - 10:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some "silly season" news and notes: --Chris Buescher will run an unspecified number of races in the #60 for Roush Fenway Racing in the Nationwide Series next year. --Chad Johnston has been named the crew chief of the #14 Sprint Cup team of Tony Stewart, replacing Steve Addington. --Maryeve Dufault will run a full-time ARCA schedule in 2014, driving the #46 for Team Stange (which runs the equipment of Larry Clement Racing). --Todd Szegedy has parted ways with the #2 MSIII Whelen Modified team. --Casey Mears and the #13 Germain Racing team will switch to Chevrolet in the offseason. 583. BON GORDON posted: 11.21.2013 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, even better than all those three wide passes was Jeff Gordon's three wide late race pass on Rusty Wallace and a slow, lapped Ricky Rudd on the apron in the 1999 Daytona 500. It was for the lead. Crazy...hell no! He got the win. Simply breath taking. 584. 18fan posted: 11.21.2013 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think if Kyle could ever put a whole season together he could potentially ruffle Jimmie's feathers. I read an interesting thing where Kyle said that his attitude in the past was that once he couldn't win the championship he would say how the year was wasted and wouldn't care where he finished in points. He said he got tired of people, like a lot of the posters on here, saying how he sucked because he never finished high in points so he made a much better effort to finish as high as he could in points. 585. cjs3872 posted: 11.21.2013 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course DSFF, in that spring race at Atlanta in 1990, Dale got quite a bit of help from Alan Kulwicki, who forced Shepherd high on the final restart, giving Earnhardt room to make that move for the win, though I suspect he would have passed Shepherd anyway. But situations like that are why NASCAR should have made the rules change they made for 1994, requiring single-file restarts with the lead lap cars starting up front, years earlier, because that should never have happened. And if any group could be called Jimmie Johnson "fanboys", it's the media, not the other drivers. Jimmie has something in his cars that even the other Hendrick drivers don't have. In fact, Brad Keselowski's spotter even said as much during the race at Texas, and the spotters may have the best view of what the teams have on the track. But I also reiterate my point about the drivers of today, for the most part, not racing hard, and that's not just with Jimmie, but with just about anyone. And again, there's a only a handful of tracks where the drivers can race hard, due to speed and aerodynamics, but where they can, they don't. And the ones who do race hard, such as Kyle Busch and Carl Edwards to name two, usually aren't up to the challenge mentally. Among he younger drivers, Brad Keselowski is certainly one, but I just didn't like the way he approached his defense of his title from he word "GO". That tells me that he just wasn't ready to be champion. The reason Jimmie is so dominant is because there isn't anyone else that's the total package, and I don't see that changing any time soon, based on the younger drivers coming up, and the driver among the young drivers coming up that seems to be the most mentally tough, won't be around very long due to things beyond his control, and that's Trevor Bayne. 586. BON GORDON posted: 11.21.2013 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yea the commentators were talking about how amazing of a pass it was on Morgan. I didn't think it was. He did get quite a bit of help from Alan pushing Shepard up the track but Morgan also had older tires too. In a battle between Morgan and Dale it's no contest despite Atlanta being a good track for Morgan in those days. It was also one of Earnhardt's best tracks too. Dale was very ill that day though. 587. jabber1990 posted: 11.21.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) yes Mark Martin was sopose to have a limited schedule in 2013, BUT he kept being hired to replace people, i'm sure he was more than happy to replace Hamlin at Martinsville, I also feel bad that he surrendered the seat of the 55 to replace Tony, i'm sure there was a reason he was hired and who are we to judge, BUT the thing I feel bad about is that right after that Vickers got sick and surrendered the seat, Mikey would have probably asked Martin to finish the season and he probably would have said yes but I also think that's part of his lack of success in the 14 car, he was sopose to run so few races but was asked to run in more it probably messed with his Psyche and got in his head also I belive that maybe the 14 car wasn't built as well as Newman or Danica's car, Newman was going to clinch a chase berth and Danica had unlimted money to spend, Tony and Haas probably diverted the resources to those 2 cars turning a 3-car team into a 2 1/2 car team somebody said that the Harvick vs Busch will encourage them to challenge Jimmie, I don't know I think they'll be too busy going after each other to care 588. cjs3872 posted: 11.21.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BON GORDON, remember that the commentators doing that race were not regulars at broadcasting NASCAR races, except Benny Parsons. Other than Parsons, the rest of the ABC commentating team usually did IndyCar races, as only two NASCAR races were broadcast on ABC then, the spring race at Atlanta and the All-Star Race at Charlotte. Paul Page and Bobby Unser joined Parsons in the booth for ABC's rare NASCAR telecasts then. They were very good, better than what is doing the NASCAR races now, but they only did two that year, and only one in 1991 and '92. Richard Petty was to join Page and Parsons for the spring race at Atlanta in 1993, but we all now what happened that weekend. So it's understandable to see why Page and Bobby Unser seemed amazed, because that kind of move was almost never seen in IndyCar racing. Even the crew covering pit road was the ABC IndyCar pit road team of Jack Arute (who had lots of NASCAR experience, having covered ESPN's NASCAR races for years) and Gary Gerould, did not have much experience covering NASCAR pit roads. It wouldn't be until 1994 that ABC began using ESPN's personnel to cover their NASCAR races, though I would have loved to see some Unser or Sam Posey, who had covered ABC's NASCAR races in the 80s, cover at least the first Brickyard 400, to give viewers insight from someone who actually drove that track. 589. BON GORDON posted: 11.21.2013 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's true CJS. It was weird yet cool to hear Bobby Unser announce that race. 590. Sean posted: 11.21.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Here's 32 others for The Sound's list of 75: - Donnie Allison (1970) - Buddy Baker (1975) - Greg Biffle (2005) - Jeff Burton (2000) - Ward Burton (2000) - Clint Bowyer (2012) - Darel Dieringer (1964) - Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) - Carl Edwards (2008) - Charlie Glotzbach (1968) - Paul Goldsmith (1957) - Bobby Hamilton (1998) - Kevin Harvick (2010) - James Hylton (1970) - Kasey Kahne (2011) - Brad Keselowski (2012) - Tiny Lund (1965) - Dave Marcis (1978) - Sterling Marlin (1995) - Jamie McMurray (2010) - Ryan Newman (2003) - Cotton Owens (1961) - Marvin Panch (1957) - Kyle Petty (1992) - Dick Rathmann (1954) - Jim Reed (1958) - Ken Schrader (1988) - Morgan Shepherd (1990) - Jack Smith (1962) - Speedy Thompson (1956) - Bob Welborn (1958) - LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969)" Too much mediocrity. Marcis? McMurray? Newman? Schrader? Nah, just nah. All good drivers, but I don't think any of them even belong on a top 75 list. I would say the same about Ward Burton, Bobby Hamilton, Kyle Petty, and Morgan Shepherd also but at least I can understand them being on there. Bowyer? Too soon. Some suggestions to potentially replace those nine drivers (I pretty much agree with the others, and am actually astounded I left LeeRoy off my initial list): Bobby Labonte - you must have missed that I didn't have him on the initial list Billy Wade - being the first driver to win 4 races in a row (twice on ovals and twice on road courses) in only his second first season before his untimely death is more impressive than Schrader and Shepherd winning 4 times in 20 year careers, right? Elmo Langley - Won multiple races as an independent driver, which may make him deserving especially since that must be your justification for Hylton. Wendell Scott - ditto, but since he only won one race, justifying him is also justifying Dave Marcis, who only won one of his five races as an independent driver Hershel McGriff - dominant in a very brief Cup career, which is more impressive to me than complacency over a 20-year career Marshall Teague - ditto Ray Elder - won 2 Cup races in Winston West equipment and was considered to be even a better west coast driver than McGriff does. Unfortunately, we can only speculate about his career outside Cup. Bill Rexford - somebody might argue that you should have all the champions on a list of 75, although I don't know whether I agree. He did only win one race. Richie Evans, Red Farmer, Larry Phillips, Jerry Cook, Ray Hendrick, Mike Stefanik, Ralph Earnhardt, etc... - sure, most of these drivers didn't compete in Cup or made very few starts. But I'd be more interested in a top 75 list that had these sort of drivers on it than a list with the likes of McMurray and Newman, who were never any sort of dominant force (Matt Borland was a dominant force in 2003 more than Newman was, let's face it). A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, Parnelli Jones - this is another route you could take. All these drivers had fairly significant Cup success in few starts and again I'd rather see them on a list of 75 Cup legends than Schrader who did very little in 9 years for Hendrick. Glen Wood - Now here's a driver on the 50 Greatest Drivers list I kind of disagree with (I also disagreed with listing Foyt and not the other open wheel legends, and I disagreed with Ralph Earnhardt because I thought Larry Phillips was a better minor-league representative), because he only won 4 races at one track, 3 in the same season, but looking up his average percent led for those years, he was a more dominant force in general than I realized. I still think he only made the list because of his success as a team owner though. There are lots of interesting picks you can make without having to settle for semi-mediocrities. I'm surprised you did rather than listing Wade, McGriff, and Teague who were FREAKING DOMINANT. 591. Sean posted: 11.21.2013 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Billy Wade - being the first driver to win 4 races in a row (twice on ovals and twice on road courses) in only his second first season before his untimely death is more impressive than Schrader and Shepherd winning 4 times in 20 year careers, right?" Obviously that should say second season, not second first season. "Ray Elder - won 2 Cup races in Winston West equipment and was considered to be even a better west coast driver than McGriff does. Unfortunately, we can only speculate about his career outside Cup." Ray Elder - won 2 Cup races in Winston West equipment and was considered to be even a better west coast driver than McGriff was. Unfortunately, we can only speculate about his Cup career mostly based on what he did outside it. There, that makes a lot more sense as well. 592. Sean posted: 11.21.2013 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pete Hamilton is another driver you should maybe consider. He was like the Sterling Marlin of the "aero wars" years, but I can understand if somebody viewed him more like Michael Waltrip in the sense that he was mostly the product of a dominant car. Obviously he doesn't match Michael Waltrip in annoyance however. 593. David posted: 11.21.2013 - 5:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, that list isn't mine. I completely ripped off your list for the first 43 and Spen's from last year's Ford 400 page for the other 32 (I was tired and had a lot on my mind). None of it was original. If I had listed my personal top 75, I likely would have included some of the names you just put down, but I'm afraid I would have left out someone big. "A.J. Foyt, Mario Andretti, Dan Gurney, Parnelli Jones - this is another route you could take. All these drivers had fairly significant Cup success in few starts and again I'd rather see them on a list of 75 Cup legends than Schrader who did very little in 9 years for Hendrick." It is VERY ironic that you put Foyt down, because the only edit I made is when I put down Ken Schrader (76th on Spen's list) instead of Foyt. I only did it because Foyt's top priority was IndyCar racing. He wasn't ever really committed to NASCAR racing for anything other than a hobby. I'll see if I can try to put up a personal top 75 list later on. 594. cjs3872 posted: 11.21.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And BON GORDON, what a lot of people don't realize is that Bobby Unser, much like the other IndyCar drivers of his generation, were very versatile drivers. In fact, Bobby had quite a bit of stock car racing experience, but most of it was in USAC, which had a very good stock car series of their own in the 60s and 70s, almost equal to NASCAR at times, but without the big events NASCAR has always had. In fact, Bobby also competed in the Daytona 500 once, doing so in 1969, the year after his younger brother Al finished fourth for Cotton Owens and two years after Mario Andretti actually won the Daytona 500 for Holman-Moody. So Bobby had quite a bit of stock car racing experience to draw from when he did those infrequent NASCAR races, as well as the IROC series, which he himself was the champion of in it's second year of existence (1975, the same year of his second Indy victory). In fact, there are only two analysts in racing I know of today who are like Bobby Unser, and both of them have shared the same booth for the last several years (for TNT's NASCAR broadcasts), Kyle Petty and Wally Dallenbach, Jr., who's father Wally, Sr. was a fierce competitor of Bobby's, as well as the rest of the IndyCar drivers of that era. (Wally, Sr. dominated the Indy race that Bobby won in 1975.) Kyle and Wally have always been straight shooters who have never been afraid to share any opinion, and that's what the sport needs from it's commentators, instead of pitchmen like those that work on the FOX broadcasts. The ESPN commentators, except for Rusty, are somewhere in between. Rusty's a straight shooter, as well, though it's no always popular with those running the sport, as well as the participants. After all, the most popular analyst in all of sports may be Johnny Miller because he calls it exactly the way he sees it. 595. Eric posted: 11.21.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, People who view Pete Hamilton as Michael Waltrip doesn't know the who background on why all is wins were at Daytona and Talladega. The fact is Pete Hamilton is a what if question due to his broken neck. The fact is he injured his neck in a 1969 Nascar Grand America Race and became a recurring injury that caused him to stop racing full time in 1971. Pete also led at other places despite his reoccurring neck injury. 596. David posted: 11.21.2013 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) New list. The bottom list is of the drivers I added. I took several off, so there should be 75. - Bobby Allison (1972) - Davey Allison (1992) - Buck Baker (1957) - Geoff Bodine (1990) - Neil Bonnett (1981) - Kurt Busch (2009) - Kyle Busch (2008) - Red Byron (1949) - Dale Earnhardt (1987) - Bill Elliott (1985) - Fonty Flock (1951) - Tim Flock (1955) - Harry Gant (1991) - Jeff Gordon (1998) - Denny Hamlin (2010) - Dick Hucherson (1965) - Ernie Irvan (1994) - Bobby Isaac (1970) - Dale Jarrett (1999) - Ned Jarrett (1964) - Jimmie Johnson (2009) - Junior Johnson (1965) - Matt Kenseth (2013) - Alan Kulwicki (1992) - Terry Labonte (1996) - Fred Lorenzen (1964) - Mark Martin (1993) - Benny Parsons (1977) - Jim Paschal (1955) - David Pearson (1973) - Lee Petty (1959) - Richard Petty (1967) - Tim Richmond (1986) - Fireball Roberts (1958) - Ricky Rudd (1983) - Tony Stewart (2005) - Herb Thomas (1953) - Curtis Turner (1950) - Rusty Wallace (1993) - Darrell Waltrip (1981) - Joe Weatherly (1962) - Rex White (1960) - Cale Yarborough (1977) - Donnie Allison (1970) - Buddy Baker (1975) - Jeff Burton (2000) - Darel Dieringer (1964) - Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) - Carl Edwards (2008) - Charlie Glotzbach (1968) - Paul Goldsmith (1957) - Bobby Hamilton (1998) - Kevin Harvick (2010) - James Hylton (1970) - Brad Keselowski (2012) - Tiny Lund (1965) - Sterling Marlin (1995) - Cotton Owens (1961) - Marvin Panch (1957) - Dick Rathmann (1954) - Jim Reed (1958) - Jack Smith (1962) - Speedy Thompson (1956) - Bob Welborn (1958) - LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969) - Bobby Labonte (2000) - Billy Wade (1964) - Elmo Langley (1969) - Wendell Scott (1964) - Hershel McGriff (1954) - Marshall Teague (1951) - Bill Rexford (1950) - Glen Wood (1960) - Pete Hamilton (1970) - John Sears (1967) - Neil Castles (1969) 597. The Sound posted: 11.21.2013 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, would you mind ranking them in terms of driver (not season) so I can more easily compare your list with others'? 598. DB1995 posted: 11.21.2013 - 9:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://www.lionelracing.com/shop-by-driver/nascar/other-drivers/trevor-bayne-2014-advocare-1-64-arc.html Trevor Baynes advocare scheme for next year, I like the Patriotic colors better than black that was on Dillons car 599. cjs3872 posted: 11.21.2013 - 11:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course DB1995, we know why Dillon's car was black. So with another team running the car, I can understand why they'd change the colors of the car. That said, I think the new red, white, and blue scheme fits Trevor Bayne better than the black paint scheme does, even though in the one race Trevor won last year, he looked more like the guy that established the tradition of the black #3 than the guy who was actually driving it on that day, with the AdvoCare sponsorship that Bayne will have next year. 600. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.22.2013 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (2) (3) On this day, 50 years ago, in Dallas TX, the President of the United States, John F Kennedy, was assassinated by government hired gunmen from the grassy knoll (or possibly one of the approaching overpasses) in Dealy Plaza. 601. Ched Little posted: 11.22.2013 - 5:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (10) ^ Nana nana... nana nana... hey hey hey... goodbye! 602. joey2448 posted: 11.22.2013 - 5:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You can count the drivers that race Jimmie hard on one hand, and we've seen what can happen when you do race him hard....He's vulnerable, but the drivers of today, for he most part, don't have that in them, for some reason." I agree with this sentiment, which is what most people on here also feel, but remember just a few weeks ago at Martinsville, when Jimmie kept getting the bad luck of the draw on restarting on the outside? Remember how no one was giving him a break, and that it looked like he was struggling on the outside because no one was letting him in and he kept getting roughed up and was dropping further back? When I saw that, I was thinking that maybe other drivers are finally starting to race Jimmie the way that everyone gets raced in NASCAR. Obviously he still won the championship, but man, I hope fellow racers continue that. Also, I'm hoping the up and coming crop of young drivers in the Nationwide and Truck series race Jimmie hard. Most of them look like guys that aren't afraid to ruffle other driver's feathers. 603. jabber1990 posted: 11.22.2013 - 7:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a guess to as why people don't race Jimmie hard, 1) its dangerous 2) Karma is a Bitch 3) if you drive a Chevy you get your engines from Hendrick, race Jimmie too hard and Hendrick will cut-you-off or give you shitty equipment 4) we saw Clint Boywer race Jeff Gordon hard, look how that turned out 604. David posted: 11.22.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After much thought, I finally ranked the drivers. This is "David's Top 75 Cup Drivers, First Edition". 1. Richard Petty (1967) 2. Dale Earnhardt (1987) 3. David Pearson (1973) 4. Bobby Allison (1972) 5. Herb Thomas (1953) 6. Jeff Gordon (1998) 7. Jimmie Johnson (2009) 8. Lee Petty (1959) 9. Cale Yarborough (1977) 10. Darrell Waltrip (1981) 11. Joe Weatherly (1962) 12. Buck Baker (1957) 13. Rusty Wallace (1993) 14. Bobby Isaac (1970) 15. Tony Stewart (2005) 16. Bill Elliott (1985) 17. Ned Jarrett (1964) 18. Matt Kenseth (2013) 19. Tim Flock (1955) 20. Junior Johnson (1965) 21. Terry Labonte (1996) 22. Fred Lorenzen (1964) 23. Fireball Roberts (1958) 24. Rex White (1960) 25. Mark Martin (1993) 26. Kevin Harvick (2010) 27. Curtis Turner (1950) 28. Dale Jarrett (1999) 29. Bobby Labonte (2000) 30. Denny Hamlin (2010) 31. Davey Allison (1992) 32. Neil Bonnett (1981) 33. Alan Kulwicki (1992) 34. Benny Parsons (1977) 35. Harry Gant (1991) 36. Kurt Busch (2009) 37. Geoff Bodine (1990) 38. Kyle Busch (2008) 39. Ricky Rudd (1983) 40. Buddy Baker (1975) 41. Fonty Flock (1951) 42. Jim Paschal (1955) 43. Speedy Thompson (1956) 44. Tim Richmond (1986) 45. Dick Hutcherson (1965) 46. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969) 47. Billy Wade (1964) 48. Jack Smith (1962) 49. Ernie Irvan (1994) 50. Brad Keselowski (2012) 51. Donnie Allison (1970) 52. Carl Edwards (2008) 53. Darel Dieringer (1964) 54. James Hylton (1970) 55. Elmo Langley (1969) 56. Jeff Burton (2000) 57. Hershel McGriff (1954) 58. Marshall Teague (1951) 59. Marvin Panch (1957) 60. Paul Goldsmith (1957) 61. Dick Rathmann (1954) 62. Wendell Scott (1964) 63. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) 64. Jim Reed (1958) 65. Charlie Glotzbach (1968) 66. Cotton Owens (1961) 67. Tiny Lund (1965) 68. John Sears (1967) 69. Sterling Marlin (1995) 70. Neil Castles (1969) 71. Red Byron (1949) 72. Bob Welborn (1958) 73. Glen Wood (1960) 74. Pete Hamilton (1970) 75. Bobby Hamilton (1998) Thoughts? Comments? No? Well, I did this for The Sound, anyway. 605. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.22.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Best article I've read in a long time: http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/11/21/jimmie-johnson-is-slowly-killing-nascar/ 606. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.22.2013 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) ^ I'm going too pick apart that article. "If anything, NASCAR would be best served by be helping other drivers win." Here is something, instead of whining about how "you can't pass with this car" and other mountain of excuses drivers come up with, how about you just man up and win? Smoke has done it, Kurt (Busch) has done it, Brad K. has done it (when his head isn't up his ass). Just race Jimmie, his is human. He makes mistakes (see 2011 and 2012). NASCAR problem isn't Jimmie, it is the 38 other @$$holes out there (minus the dudes i named). Their the problem, NOT Jimmie. "the folks at Daytona Beach don't seem to be listening to their fans." Then why is there a fan council? Since fans think they are so important, you have a council too be a part of, use it. "a general refusal to do anything that a fan might suggest." Here is one for ya, NASCAR recently polled fans from the fan council (10,000 of them). Out of that 10,000, 73% want cautions too bunch up the field reguardless if they are real or not. NASCAR isn't listening? Bullshit. If Petty and Earnhardt Sr. were doing what Jimmie is doing, this stuff would still happen "he is winning too much." BTW didn't Jeff Gordon gets the same flak for pretty much the same thing? Jimmie, Smoke, Kurt and Brad have won Cups during the Chase era. Jimmie IS beatable, Smoke, Kurt and Brad have proven it. It time for the 38 other morons out there too step up or step out of the way. 607. Watto posted: 11.22.2013 - 11:32 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) I don't want to go on too much of a tangent in regards to that article, but it talks about the massive rise in popularity in the late 90s, it mentions the breath of fresh air Brad Keselowski gave in 2012, etc... Simply a lot of opinion without fact. If Jimmie Johnson isn't good for the sport, then why was Jeff Gordon good for the sport when he won 33 races in THREE YEARS? Why were the ratings decreasing in years that Jimmie didn't win the title? How come attendance DOESN'T indicate that Jimmie Johnson winning hurts the sport? How come TV ratings DOESN'T indicate that Jimmie Johnson winning hurts the sport? Tony Stewart wins 2011, Keselowski wins 2012, ratings have been going down regardless. In the last FIVE seasons, the highest ratings came in 2009 when Jimmie won his 4th title. Why didn't we see a massive rise in viewers once Stewart became champ? Why didn't viewers go up this year after two consecutive years of champions who WEREN'T Jimmie Johnson? Why were Homestead's TV ratings this year slightly higher than last year's, when last year we had Keselowski enter Homestead with a 20 point lead and this year we had Johnson enter Homestead with a 27 point lead? Daytona 500 saw some decent ratings this year before it equalized, and as much as I hate to say it, I think Danica had a big part of it. Danica winning the pole was such a huge story that I think casual fans and non-fans flipped the channel to see if they were about to watch a chick win a NASCAR race. Anyway, my point is that the article isn't really journalism... some dude wants a scapegoat, and he found it, and no fact in the world is going to tell him otherwise. 608. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.23.2013 - 4:50 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sunday NFL Predictions, without the spread (winner in CAPS): NEW YORK JETS @ Baltimore Ravens Pittsburgh Steelers @ CLEVELAND BROWNS Tampa Bay Buccaneers @ DETROIT LIONS Minnesota Vikings @ GREEN BAY PACKERS (sorry guys) JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS @ Houston Texans San Diego Chargers @ KANSAS CITY CHIEFS Carolina Panthers @ MIAMI DOLPHINS Chicago Bears @ ST. LOUIS RAMS INDIANAPOLIS COLTS @ Arizona Cardinals Tennessee Titans @ OAKLAND RAIDERS DALLAS COWBOYS @ New York Giants Denver Broncos @ NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS @ Washington Redskins BTW, happy belated birthday to the butt fumble! 609. joey2448 posted: 11.23.2013 - 5:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NEW ORLEANS over Atlanta It's hard enough to pick the winners, let alone against the spread...(winners in CAPS) PITTSBURGH over Cleveland DETROIT over Tampa Bay GREEN BAY over Minnesota KANSAS CITY over San Diego CHICAGO over St. Louis CAROLINA over Miami BALTIMORE over NY Jets HOUSTON over Jacksonville OAKLAND over Tennessee INDIANAPOLIS over Arizona NY GIANTS over Dallas DENVER over New England SAN FRANCISCO over Washington 610. TS1420 posted: 11.23.2013 - 7:27 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Thanks SpeedWorld97. I needed that article after reading this blood boiling, "Donny Lia Bucket" inducing, sugar coated fluff piece from Marty Smith. http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/9999795/nascar-greatness-jimmie-johnson Which basically amounts to Jimmie Johnson is not only the greatest driver in history, but the greatest human being in history and you should be ashamed of not worshiping the ground he walks on. 611. cjs3872 posted: 11.23.2013 - 1:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Watto, the reason for that is that, whether we, as sports fans, want to admit it, we like to watch the dominant team or franchise. Teams like the Los Angeles Lakers and the Boston Celtics in the NBA or the San Antonio Spurs and Miami Heat now, or the Chicago Bulls in the Jordan era), the New York Yankees and Boston Red Sox in MLB, the Pittsburgh Steelers and New England Patriots in the NFL today, and when they were good back in the day, the Dallas Cowboys and the Oakland Raiders in the NFL decades ago. We like to watch the dominant teams or franchises, either to watch them win more titles, or to watch them fail spectacularly. And it's always been like that. Also, another reason a lot of people liked it when Jeff Gordon dominated, and I'll go beyond his 33 wins in three years from 1996-'98, and expand it to 1995-2001, when he won 56 times and was the circuit's leading winner every year but one in that time frame, was that the sport was ready for a major change. Also, why I think what Gordon did in those seven years was greater than what Jimmie Johnson's done in the last eight, was the level of drivers Gordon had to do it against, and the fact hat he had to go the full season to win his titles. Take nothing away from what Jimmie Johnson's done, but I'll take the drivers Gordon was up against over the drivers Johnson has had to do it against, as a group, any time. And Johnson never actually had to go the distance to win his titles, though he would have won this year's championship regardless, which is why I've said that 2013 may have been Jimmie's greatest season, though he's had seasons that were statistically better. I've said it before, but I don't think Jimmie would have been able to do what he's done against the drivers that Gordon or Dale Earnhardt had to do what they did against. Not in 12 years. A 50% championship average and 5.5 wins per season in 12 years? I don't think so. Not against the caliber of competition Gordon and Earnhardt had to go up against every week. That's what made Gordon's 8 win-per season average on ALL kinds of tracks in that seven-year period (1995-2001) so mind-numbing. But even he leveled off. Saying all that, Jimmie's just three wins behind where Gordon was at the same point in his career, though in Gordon's defense, they didn't start running 36 races until his ninth season (and ran 33 races or less in his first six years), while they've always run 36 in the years Johnson's been in the series, so he's run slightly more races than Gordon, but not many more. But here's something. If Johnson wins seven times next year, his win total after 13 years will be equal to Jeff's (73), and if he wins 10 in the next two seasons combined, he will actually have more wins after 14 seasons than Gordon had. Age might be the one thing that keeps Johnson from that 100-win mark that would compel me to make him #1 all-time, as by the end of his 14th season, Johnson will be 40 years old. 612. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.23.2013 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""17. Kurt Busch - 0 wins (that 4th SHR team will struggle A LOT)" Disagree 100%" We'll see. ""21. Austin Dillon - 0 wins (can't see him being much better than Burton)" Frankly, I think anyone who thinks Austin Dillon is going to struggle is living in a fantasy land." I think Austin will have a great Cup career, but I don't see anything to suggest he'll have a better rookie season than Stenhouse or Keselowski, and as a rookie I don't think he's an improvement upon an aged Jeff Burton. By 2016 however, I think he'll have become a regular Chase contender. "I don't think its out of line to call the drivers Jimmie Johnson fanboys. None of them ever race him with very few exceptions, and when Jimmie has to actually race, he usually screws up." I thought you were in attendance at the Martinsville race, DSFF? Because if you were, I don't see how you could have missed that no one was giving him an inch in that race. "On this day, 50 years ago, in Dallas TX, the President of the United States, John F Kennedy, was assassinated by government hired gunmen from the grassy knoll (or possibly one of the approaching overpasses) in Dealy Plaza. ^ Nana nana... nana nana... hey hey hey... goodbye!" This is one of the most tasteless and offensive comments I have ever seen on a message board. Also, I haven't seen this announced officially, but it looks like Teresa Earnhardt may be out at EGR and the team will now be known simply as Ganassi Racing (with Felix Sabates). The Jamie McMurray Cessna paint scheme diecast has been revealed and the front bumper sticker does not have the Earnhardt signature as their 2013 front bumper stickers did. They are also switching to a new number font, which only furthers speculation here as the old font had been in use since the #1 team was started with Steve Park back in 1998 and Teresa probably owns the rights to that specific style. 613. cjs3872 posted: 11.23.2013 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NLA, that font for the #1 car goes all the way back to 1990, when Richard Jackson changed the number of the Skoal Classic car from 55 to 1 when Terry Labonte replaced Phil Parsons, so that font pre-dates DEI by some seven or eight years. The only time that version of the font for the #1 wasn't used was in 1997 when Morgan Shepherd drove the car when it was sponsored by Delco Remy America. It was used when the car was sponsored by Skoal Classic and Hooters, when they sponsored the #1 car in 1996. When DEI got the rights to that number in 1998 (they switched numbers with Richard Jackson to get the #1 from the #14 they had used in 1997), they brought that font back. But that font for the #1 car actually goes back to 1990. 614. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.23.2013 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Simply a lot of opinion without fact. If Jimmie Johnson isn't good for the sport, then why was Jeff Gordon good for the sport when he won 33 races in THREE YEARS" Because NASCAR was still in touch with its roots then even as they were desperately trying to get big enough to shed them. The only thing that happened in Gordon's reign was North Wilkesboro being shut down, and that was blamed on the track being bough by rival promotors who wanted their dates. Plus NASCAR still had the fan's favorites from the past 15 years around being irreverent. When, during the disastrous 1998 Texas race, a badly washed up DW compared the race to The Alamo, it cracked us up even as we were watching a bunch of crap. Jeff got saved by these factors during his heyday. The fact is he didn't have much personality back then. It really wasn't until after his divorce that he developed his own personality and gained a real fan base (the fans of his in the 90s were bandwagon fans, girls who thought he was cute, and little kids who loved that rainbow car). Of course, unlike Jimmie, his lack of personality until 2003 is understandable. His step father openly laments nowadays about not letting Jeff have a real childhood, instead taking him everywhere to live out his own dream of being a race car driver. Then, right as he was reaching adulthood, he rushed into a marraige with The Gold Digger. It is like he used 2002 to discover who Jeff Gordon truly is. He began talking like an actual person, and his Times Saying "Awesome" Per Interview fell from 17.8 ('94-'01) to 10.6 ('02-'13). He got a hilarious buzzcut before the '03 season just for the hell of it, which he laughed at himself, actually discussed his faults instead of brushing them aside, and gave a really good performance on Saturday Night Live. By contrast, Jimmie grew up in a trailer park in So Cal, had two parents with very blue collar jobs, yet still acts like The Borg. Of course with becoming a real person, his on track production fell from "historically great" to "really good". He started putting up Kyle Busch type win numbers instead of Jeff Gordon win numbers. And he peppered in a few championship caliber seasons ('04, '07) with some not so much. And like every other driver, he joined The Church Of Jimmie Johnson despite a brief attempt at an uprising in 2010 which was quickly quelled. Of course being part owner in The Emotionless Juggernaut complicates things a bit. I still think Rick has something on him that is holding him back. Anyways, he traded his on track immortality for a soul. In the grand scheme of things, a good trade for Wonder Boy. 615. cjs3872 posted: 11.23.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As I've said before DSFF, Rick Hendrick has modeled his organization after Roger Penske's IndyCar operation, and one thing Penske always wanted his drivers to be were spokesmen, instead of just winners. After all, from a personality standpoint, Jimmie Johnson isn't really any different than Rick Mears was when he was in his prime, because Mears didn't have that much of a personality if I remember right. But that's one thing Penske liked about him. And of course, both Johnson and Mears had something else in common (besides their common racing backgrounds) and that was that each had a mentor or two to guide them through their early years. While we know that Johnson had Gordon and even Terry Labonte as mentors with Hendrick, Mears had Tom Sneva, Mario Andretti, and Bobby Unser as mentors in his early years with Penske. In fact, if not for his 1984 crash at Sanair Speedway near Montreal that shattered his legs and feet, Mears would have done in IndyCar racing what Johnson has done in his 12 years in NASCAR's top series. Johnson has not had that catastrophic crash, and frankly, I hope he doesn't, because no person in his right mind should wish that on anybody. Even though Penske had other drivers win championships while he was there (Al Unser in 1983 and '85 and Danny Sullivan in '88), Penske set up his operation in such a way that Mears would always be the most successful. After all, Mears was always the fastest in the biggest races, even though other Penske drivers did manage to win some of those events. Hendrick sets up his operation in much the same way. He and Chad Knaus set it up so that Jimmie Johnson is always the fastest and the only one capable of winning the championship, but at the same time, allows the others to win races, even big races. Roger Penske's IndyCar team was the model that Hendrick used when he set up his operation, and it's still the model Hendrick uses to this day, just as Hendrick's NASCAR team should be the model that others use 20 years from now. 616. murb posted: 11.23.2013 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't really like the new number font on McMurray's car. It looks like the 1 from the 51 of Phoenix Racing, an entirely different team. I kind of wish they would change McMurray's number to 40. With this font change, they're obviously trying to get away from the DEI/Ganassi merger. If they changed it to 40, then they would have the 40 and the 42 on that team, just like the old Ganassi/Sabco days. That would be cool just for nostalgic purposes. 617. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.23.2013 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NLA, that font for the #1 car goes all the way back to 1990, when Richard Jackson changed the number of the Skoal Classic car from 55 to 1 when Terry Labonte replaced Phil Parsons, so that font pre-dates DEI by some seven or eight years. The only time that version of the font for the #1 wasn't used was in 1997 when Morgan Shepherd drove the car when it was sponsored by Delco Remy America. It was used when the car was sponsored by Skoal Classic and Hooters, when they sponsored the #1 car in 1996. When DEI got the rights to that number in 1998 (they switched numbers with Richard Jackson to get the #1 from the #14 they had used in 1997), they brought that font back. But that font for the #1 car actually goes back to 1990." I just checked and you're right. I knew they were similar but I never noticed they were identical. Still, you'd have to think Teresa probably owns the rights to that number style as of now and the change in font in combination with the mysterious absence of the Earnhardt signature from the team logo on the bumper probably indicates she's either no longer going to be involved with the team or her visible role will be greatly decreased (actually I don't think she's really been much of a factor within the organization since the merger as it is). 618. 12345Dude posted: 11.23.2013 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ehhh DSFF the reason jimmie doesn't have Jeff's win numbers is because he focuses his whole season around 10 races. Jeff focused around every race. It's common sense. Do I need to post the stats of all the former champions in the chase era again? Without a chase Jimmie wins 9+ races almost every year. Jimmie has beaten Jeff 11/12 years and some people still think Jeff is better. Jeff has more wins/top 5s in championship years? OK i'll post again the stats of chase champs vs. non chase champs. If the first 26 races are an open test session then how can he match Jeff's champion stats? It's commen sense. Every driver in NASCAR says Jimmie is the best ever. But that doesn't change 95% of the people's minds on here. I guess we know more than nascar drivers. We complain 24/7 about Jimmie being vanilla. But some people just are, they can't help it. That's just his personality. 619. 12345Dude posted: 11.23.2013 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sometimes I just wonder if people are butt sour about Jimmie passing the king's and the intimadator's 7 titles. They "captured our hearts" and vanilla Jimmie doesn't. We don't want to believe "corporate vanilla" is better than our heros. And sorry about going into the whole Jimmie vs. Jeff thing again. I just thought after 6 titles in 12 years the fans would give him the respect he deserves as a racer. 620. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.23.2013 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (6) What the hell is wrong with you people. Cut the shit and comment on real stuff and not some insipid inconclusive debates. There is one fact, and that is that Dale Earnhardt won his titles in a tougher era than Richard Petty or Jimmie Johnson won any of their titles in, and likewise Earnhardt had to put more effort and greatness into his titles than Jimmie has for all six and Richard has for any two. 621. 12345Dude posted: 11.23.2013 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) That's it for me Nico. I knew people would get upset. I can understand it can get old. I just wish Jimmie would get more credit. But we are just going in circles. 622. TS1420 posted: 11.23.2013 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "Every driver in NASCAR says Jimmie is the best ever. But that doesn't change 95% of the people's minds on here. I guess we know more than nascar drivers." This is not a good thing. This is what is wrong with NASCAR. These drivers now days put Jimmie up on a pedestal and it causing them to fear racing him. The drivers of the past, while still showing respect, didn't put guys like Petty, Earnhardt, Gordon, ect on a pedestal and they believed themselves to be the best. "We complain 24/7 about Jimmie being vanilla. But some people just are, they can't help it. That's just his personality." The problem is not just being vanilla, but the fact what little personality he shows is vile arrogance (taking shots at the fans, putting down other drivers when he feels threatened by them, the whine-fest that follows for months afterwards when NASCAR finally dares clamps down on the 48 team, blaming drivers for his own mistakes like when he punted Denny Hamlin at Martinsville 09 or his restart-spinout against Kenseth this year at Kentucky). "Sometimes I just wonder if people are butt sour about Jimmie passing the king's and the intimadator's 7 titles. They "captured our hearts" and vanilla Jimmie doesn't. We don't want to believe "corporate vanilla" is better than our heros." What's wrong with not wanting some unrelatable, vanilla, soulless corporate drone like Johnson being shoved down our throats as being better than relatable, colorful, everyman characters like Earnhardt & Petty? 623. cjs3872 posted: 11.23.2013 - 5:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Leave me out of that, NicoRosbergFan, because I'm one of those that realizes that the championships won by Jeff Gordon and those prior to him (like Earnhardt, Labonte, Waltrip, Yarborough, etc.) were tougher to win, not just because the drivers were, as a group, better and more complete drivers, but also because of the fact that, to win a championship, you had to be the best over the course of a FULL season, not just 10 races, which is about 30% of the season. And 12345Dude, the win totals for Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson through 12 years, as I mentioned post #611, are strikingly similar, though Jeff gets the edge there, not just because he had 69 wins to Jimmie's 66, but because Jeff raced six seasons of 33 races or less, and the fact that the season didn't grow to 36 races until Jeff's ninth season, so Jeff didn't have as many races in the first few years of his career to amass as many victories as he did, and yet he did so at a faster pace (10/31 in 1996, 10/32 in 1997, 13/33 in 1998) than Johnson, who has had only one double-digit win season in his career (10 in 2007). And if he wins seven times next year, he'll be ahead of Jeff's pace through 13 years and if he gets 10 over the next two seasons, he'll be ahead of Jeff through 14 seasons. Jeff won four times in 2005, which was his 13th season, giving him 73 at that time, and added two in 2006, his 14th season, which gave him 75 through 14 seasons. At his current pace, Jimmie should at least tie Dale Earnhardt, Sr. for seventh place on the career wins list by the end of 2015, if not pass Dale, Sr. in terms of career wins. That said, he won't have defeated near the competition that Dale, or even Jeff defeated to get their 76 and 88 wins (and counting), respectively. 624. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.23.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) How did this get into a driver ranking discussion? I just wanted to make a post about how Jeff Gordon discovered who Jeff Gordon really is after a lifetime (well, his first 30 years being controlled by people who had no interest in him as a person, only the incredible amount of money he could bring in with his freakish talent). It was a post about personality and a reminder that Jeff was pretty bland himself for a while. I did mention in passing how it also coincided with his relative drop off on production. But we really need to give up on this ranking stuff. It leads to headaches and hurt feelings. Do I feel like the mid 20s Gordon and Evernham duo would crush JJ and Chad if given equal stuff? Yes but I can't prove ot. I just wanted to touch on something that could easily be a documentary: The Discovery Of Jeff Gordon. A rare child prodigy who escaped his upbringing and found his own personality and his own happiness. And you know what? As much as I often scoff at cjs for citing Dale's passing as the reason for many thongs like certain driver's career fall offs (most were getting old and it was time for a changing of the guard), I think Dale's death made Jeff look at himself and say "I'm not quite 30 yet, been wildly successful and famous, have more money than I'll ever even need to think about having, yet I haven't lived a day in my life. That could have been me and my life would have been a waste despite the success". 625. cjs3872 posted: 11.23.2013 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, you're not the only one that thinks that way about Gordon and how Dale Sr.'s death may have affected him. In fact, I've heard other people say that he said that event changed him and made him take a good look at himself. The plain truth is that every other driver in that race that had experience racing against Dale, Sr. did the same thing. Also, another reason I think that event changed the careers of the drivers that raced against him, and Rusty Wallace said this, was that they no longer had the "gold standard" driver to measure themselves against, and to them, Earnhardt was the gold standard against whom they measured themselves. And with that now removed, some of the drive to be the best they could be was no longer there. So Dale's passing affected the drivers that raced against him both on and off the track. Some are just more willing to admit it than others. 626. Anonymous posted: 11.23.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great season and chase for Dale Jr and the #88 team, despite the lack of a win. He scored 22 top 10 finishes this year which is a personal best for him, and it would have been even higher without some of the DNFs in races where he ran well. His fifth place finish in points was the best eventual points finish for any driver who left the first chase race being ranked last in points. He also led eight out of ten chase races, after only leading seven of the first 26. He also scored three consecutive top 5 finishes, for the first time since Las-Vegas-Atlanta-Bristol in March 2008. Also this was his first top 5 at Homestead, coming in his 14th start. 627. cjs3872 posted: 11.23.2013 - 10:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Anonymous (#626), the one that really affected Dale, Jr.'s Chase was in the Chase opener at Chicago, when his was one of several engines that couldn't stand the higher than expected speeds caused by the lengthy rain delay that caused much of the race to be run in much cooler conditions, which increased the strain on the engines, and Dale, Jr.'s was one of those that couldn't make it. If not for that one engine failure, he probably would have been in that battle between Kenseth and Harvick for second place, instead of finishing fifth, nearly a full race worth of points behind Kenseth and over 20 behind Harvick. 628. DB1995 posted: 11.23.2013 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, Tennessee lost again. Four in a row now : Alabama, Missouri, Auburn and now Vanderbilt. Destroyed by the 1st 3 and was close at Vanderbilt tonight. No bowl game for us just Kentucky left now. I hope Butch Jones can get the program better next year, i wouldnt mind a season like the 98' VOLS had next year. We could be worse, i mean we could be Austin-Peay lol 629. MStall41 posted: 11.24.2013 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (6) (1) "What the hell is wrong with you people. Cut the shit and comment on real stuff and not some insipid inconclusive debates. There is one fact, and that is that Dale Earnhardt won his titles in a tougher era than Richard Petty or Jimmie Johnson won any of their titles in, and likewise Earnhardt had to put more effort and greatness into his titles than Jimmie has for all six and Richard has for any two." Easily one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this site. You and DSFF are really pushing hard for the title of "silliest irrational JJ hater on the site." Spoiler alert, you are winning. 630. Watto posted: 11.24.2013 - 2:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #614-DSFF: I might've answered my own question in a slightly different way, but you're exactly right (IMO) about variables being everything. That's why I was ridiculing the article that was posted... it was predicated on the idea that every win just throws fans away (as if there's any history of that being true in NASCAR ever). NASCAR has had the biggest effect on NASCAR, not Jimmie Johnson, but fans who are bitter that their driver isn't the dominator tend to point to him as the reason NASCAR has lost some of its luster, disregarding every possible reason in the book. Jimmie may not show too much of his personality, but that's what big money sponsors who want their band best represented tend to make happen. Lowe's obviously wants a different image than Miller Lite, for instance. He's in the business of racing cars, I don't think he started racing because of his wish to be an entertaining personality in the public eye. I really don't fault him for it. On all accounts from everyone I know in the garage area who have dealt with the guy (a few of which are currently Cup drivers), Jimmie is a really good dude. He's gone above and beyond as far as helping others that he doesn't even need to talk to (I wish I could share some stories right now..). The guy's a straight up good dude. He's not a hothead so when he comes out of his car after a race fairly calm and collected, people think he's a robot. He's not a robot. This is his job. He answers the questions he's asked without cranking out a stand-up routine. The guy is not a showman by nature, many race car drivers aren't (when they're out of their cars). No one knew Matt Kenseth's sense of humor all that well til twitter came around. Talking about how the car is and plugging sponsors usually hides many personality traits. The fact that Jimmie comes from a trailer park/blue collar upbringing doesn't mean that he's supposed to act a certain way, in my opinion. Not everyone is a stereotype. 631. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 6:22 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) If Teresa is getting out of NASCAR for good, I think it sends a clear message to those of us that still treasure our Earnhardt memories that he would really not care about this era of NASCAR. She was his soulmate and knew him better than anyone else. I think she kept going for so long, well after the DEI that Dale last knew was a distant memory, because she knew Dale's passion for the sport and how much he would have wanted to stay involved. But with NASCAR where it is now (bad racing, cardboard drivers, sport for blue bloods), she must know Dale would be saying what most of us imagine him saying: "To hell with this shit!". 632. Watto posted: 11.24.2013 - 6:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think Teresa's actions are indicative of what Dale's might be today, at all. We could flash back to 2007 and even earlier, and Teresa had very little to do with DEI... she simply didn't close the shop that Dale built. She was nowhere to be found. Her relationship with Jr dwindled to close to nothing. When she didn't want him to have a bigger role in DEI, and he ultimately decided that he was running for a team that was headed downhill fast that he was never going to be able to have any control of, he made the switch to Hendrick and couldn't even get #8 to bring along. The #8 ran for what, one year before it was nonexistent? There was nothing "Earnhardt" about Earnhardt Ganassi Racing. That's Chip Ganassi running Chevrolets. It only makes sense if people are gonna stop calling it EGR finally. 633. Watto posted: 11.24.2013 - 6:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess I should clarify a little bit. Of course, they inherited a number of employees and Teresa owned a slice of the pie given the merger and what Ganassi took out of it, but it was clearly inevitable that eventually the team would return to simply being known as Ganassi/Sabates/etc. Teresa was a name on that team, she's had nothing to do with it for years. What I'm saying is that her actions don't reflect what Dale's would have been. That goes all the way back to 2006 and earlier. 634. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.24.2013 - 9:15 am Rate this comment: (1) (8) "Easily one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read on this site. You and DSFF are really pushing hard for the title of "silliest irrational JJ hater on the site." Spoiler alert, you are winning. " Nah, the hatred is rational. Jimmie can be a pretty damned piece of shit human being. It's the arguments that we use that lose their rationality. Besides, I can find a good 5-6 dozen posts that are more ridiculous, many yours. 635. Sean posted: 11.24.2013 - 11:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "As I've said before DSFF, Rick Hendrick has modeled his organization after Roger Penske's IndyCar operation, and one thing Penske always wanted his drivers to be were spokesmen, instead of just winners." Helio Castroneves, Will Power, and Juan Pablo Montoya? All high on personality and definitely not generic. Most people don't like Juan's personality. I don't like Helio's. But generic they are not. Neither is Brad. So basically it's just Joey holding up the "generic end" of Penske today. "Even though Penske had other drivers win championships while he was there (Al Unser in 1983 and '85 and Danny Sullivan in '88), Penske set up his operation in such a way that Mears would always be the most successful. After all, Mears was always the fastest in the biggest races, even though other Penske drivers did manage to win some of those events." Maybe it's just that Unser was getting older and Sullivan was the least talented CART champion before the split (better than Jimmy Vasser but I'm not sure I'd take Sullivan over any of the other CART champions even during the split)? And Sullivan was always more of a road racer, while Mears was more of an oval racer. I'm no Jimmie fan, but I don't think there's a conspiracy for him. He's just that much better than his teammates at this point. Just like Mears was better than Unser and Sullivan. Note: I agree that Unser was greater over his whole career, but AT THAT POINT Mears > Unser. Much like I would still probably rate Gordon over Johnson now (PROBABLY) but Johnson is better now. "Leave me out of that, NicoRosbergFan, because I'm one of those that realizes that the championships won by Jeff Gordon and those prior to him (like Earnhardt, Labonte, Waltrip, Yarborough, etc.) were tougher to win, not just because the drivers were, as a group, better and more complete drivers, but also because of the fact that, to win a championship, you had to be the best over the course of a FULL season, not just 10 races, which is about 30% of the season." The chase argument seems valid. The deeper competition is not if you're comparing Johnson to Gordon. I'll still take Edwards, Kyle, Hamlin, Harvick, etc... now, with all their flaws, over late-career Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, Ricky Rudd, Terry Labonte, Ernie Irvan, Geoff Bodine, etc... Even if most of those drivers may have been better at their peaks, Gordon was reigning over their declines. Earnhardt was reigning over their peaks. I don't think I agree that Earnhardt's death affected Gordon much. He destroyed the field in 2001, after all. His decline in 2002 was usually blamed on his divorce, but I think history has proven that it was just the debut of the #48 (and especially that the #24 team gave all their dominant chassis from the previous year to the #48 and had to rebuild from scratch... Jeff Gordon leads 380 laps at Dover in 2001, his team hands this chassis to the #48 and Jimmie sweeps at Dover as a rookie! Isn't that AMAZING?!?!?!) But I do think that can happen. Dario Franchitti did not seem like the same driver at all after Dan Wheldon's death... But I don't think Greg Moore's death affected his driving all that much. I think it probably only happens when a driver's career is almost over and they get kind of spooked... I would probably agree with cjs that Earnhardt's contemporaries like Rusty were affected more than Gordon was... Gordon's decline was largely giving all their best cars to Johnson THEN followed by him losing his edge a bit (maybe the divorce, etc... played a role in the latter, but I think giving the #48 all those winning chassis still played a more important role.) "I don't think Teresa's actions are indicative of what Dale's might be today, at all. We could flash back to 2007 and even earlier, and Teresa had very little to do with DEI... she simply didn't close the shop that Dale built. She was nowhere to be found. Her relationship with Jr dwindled to close to nothing. When she didn't want him to have a bigger role in DEI, and he ultimately decided that he was running for a team that was headed downhill fast that he was never going to be able to have any control of, he made the switch to Hendrick and couldn't even get #8 to bring along. The #8 ran for what, one year before it was nonexistent? There was nothing "Earnhardt" about Earnhardt Ganassi Racing. That's Chip Ganassi running Chevrolets. It only makes sense if people are gonna stop calling it EGR finally." Agree. She's been gone for years. 636. Anonymous posted: 11.24.2013 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Even though Penske had other drivers win championships while he was there (Al Unser in 1983 and '85 and Danny Sullivan in '88), Penske set up his operation in such a way that Mears would always be the most successful. After all, Mears was always the fastest in the biggest races, even though other Penske drivers did manage to win some of those events. Hendrick sets up his operation in much the same way. He and Chad Knaus set it up so that Jimmie Johnson is always the fastest and the only one capable of winning the championship, but at the same time, allows the others to win races, even big races. Roger Penske's IndyCar team was the model that Hendrick used when he set up his operation, and it's still the model Hendrick uses to this day, just as Hendrick's NASCAR team should be the model that others use 20 years from now." -My question about this mode of operation is not as much about the other drivers/teams being in on this approach, but about the sponsors of the other teams. I don't know what Penske's sponsorship situation was in the 80's, but if I was Pepsi, Farmers, AARP, the US gov't, Axalta, etc., wouldn't you want your company to be the one that's put to the forefront or at least your car/team be given equal resources to compete for the championship i.e. media exposure? Unless Lowe's is paying a premium price compared to what the other sponsors are bringing in, why would you want your company to be part of the support group? Sure you may win a couple races a year, make the Chase, perhaps be alive to win it at Homestead. Seeing the way that NESPN and others just have an iso cam on the 48 car, any other sponsor in the Hendrick umbrella is not going to get near the ROI that Lowe's gets. Perhaps that's a reason that Hendrick has had issues filling out a complete season of sponsorships for the 5,24, and 88 cars in recent seasons despite those drivers being the most popular in the sport and mainstream. 637. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 11.24.2013 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) #636 is my post. For some reason, the username didn't automatically pop-up like it normally does. 638. cjs3872 posted: 11.24.2013 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, Jimmy Vasser's championship was not before the open wheel split. His title came in 1996, the year the split took place. Granted, had the split not happened, he would have won the CART title anyway, but technically, he won the his championship after the split took place. And I don't think Sullivan was that weak a champion. After all, he not only won the Indianapolis 500 in 1985, but won the Pocono 500 twice, including after his arm was broken at Indy in 1989. Sullivan was a very good IndyCar champion. He just lived the high life more than someone like Roger Penske would have wanted him to. As far as I know, the weakest IndyCar champion in modern times before the split was Roger McCluskey in 1973. Now I know that was when USAC ran the series, several years before CART was born, but McCluskey may have been the weakest IndyCar champion from World War II through 1995, despite the high caliber of competition he beat in 1973, almost all of whom had off-years. 639. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.24.2013 - 12:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^McCluskey is definitely the weakest IndyCar champion. 5 wins (6 if you count races in the farce years from 1979-1983 where A.J. Foyt was the only top-20 caliber driver running) wins in over 20 years is downright pathetic. Sean, nice post 640. MStall41 posted: 11.24.2013 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) "Nah, the hatred is rational. Jimmie can be a pretty damned piece of shit human being. It's the arguments that we use that lose their rationality. Besides, I can find a good 5-6 dozen posts that are more ridiculous, many yours." "Damned piece of shit human being"? Please, enlighten me on why Jimmie is such a terrible human being, you must know him on a very personal level to make a statement like that. How did you meet Jimmie? What is his family like? Does he like his eggs scrambled or sunny side up? Obviously you know him pretty well so you could easily answer all of these questions. I'm sure we'd all love to know what Jimmie is like away from the race track.... I find it both hilarious and depressing at the same time that you take the success of someone you've never met before so personally. 641. Cornys posted: 11.24.2013 - 2:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, I sent NASCAR an e-mail (like it will have any effect) about the usage of yellow flags. Had to get it off of my back. It won't have any effect other than on me. 642. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.24.2013 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (1) (5) MStall41, apparently you forgot the two year campaign to defame Sam Hornish Jr... you forgot the accusations of NASCAR and Juan Pablo Montoya conspiring together to get Jimmie black flagged at Dover... the list is long, and I shan't post on this again because people like YOU, people who refuse to see the facts, push lies down our throats. I guess though you must be a lawyer since you apparently have the right to decide what we can and can't say about people. 643. MStall41 posted: 11.24.2013 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) HAHAHA I'm the one who refuses to see the facts? You might want to take a look in the mirror bud. If the rivalry JJ had with Hornish and JJ getting pissed about a questionable call in Dover are the best two examples you have of being a "terrible human being", then you don't have much of an argument and I'll leave it at that. 644. TS1420 posted: 11.24.2013 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess NASCAR's big idea to solve the quality of racing is to put a tapered spacer (pseudo restrictor plate) on the engines. http://www.sportingnews.com/nascar/story/2013-11-22/2013-offseason-tony-stewart-injury-austin-dillon-ride-2014-rules/slide/3 Why don't they just go to a smaller engine package (V8 in the 300ci range or big V6's), slap turbo's on them and limit the boost for the bigger tracks (and go to back to a NA setup at Daytona & Talladega, maybe even without the plates) 645. Sean posted: 11.24.2013 - 3:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Maybe it's just that Unser was getting older and Sullivan was the least talented CART champion before the split (better than Jimmy Vasser but I'm not sure I'd take Sullivan over any of the other CART champions even during the split)?" I said least talented CART champion, not least talented IndyCar champion. That would almost without question go to Buzz Calkins... And certainly Sullivan over Joe Leonard or Roger McCluskey or Greg Ray or Scott Sharp or Buddy Lazier...or probably some of the champions during the junk formula era of the '30s. I also said Sullivan was the least talented CART champion before the split. I'm well aware Vasser won the title during the split, but my additional point there was that I would take all the CART/Champ Car champions post-Vasser over Sullivan as well. Vasser is the only CART/Champ Car champion from 1979-2007 I would rate lower than Sullivan, mostly because they both relied on driving for the dominant team of their day and basically did nothing elsewhere... 646. Sean posted: 11.24.2013 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Technically, George Snider won a USAC title after all the talent had left for CART. He would probably be 2nd behind Calkins (maybe 3rd behind Calkins and Ray). 647. Sean posted: 11.24.2013 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe Sullivan over Cristiano da Matta too. It's close, but da Matta beat a much deeper field. There were like 5 or 6 cars that won all the races when Sullivan was dominating, and even after the Penske cars left, there were more competitive cars when da Matta had his dominant season, but he might not have had enough longevity (or Zanardi/Mansell/Villeneuve-like dominance to make up for it.) 648. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.24.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (9) "HAHAHA I'm the one who refuses to see the facts? You might want to take a look in the mirror bud. If the rivalry JJ had with Hornish and JJ getting pissed about a questionable call in Dover are the best two examples you have of being a "terrible human being", then you don't have much of an argument and I'll leave it at that. " Wow! You really are a c@#$ like I thought you were. 649. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only the Panthers can play 4 seasons of garbage football, start another season 1-3, win 6 straight games, then have a let down game. Let down? This is the first time we have been playing meaningful football since 2008. And we can't get pumped for every game? I woke up early on a night I have to work after working the last two nights for this shit. 650. David posted: 11.24.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not going to lie, this has been an incredible back-and-forth game between the Chiefs and Chargers. 38-34 with 1:22 left, and anything can happen. 651. joey2448 posted: 11.24.2013 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy cow....can the Bears rush defense be ANY worse??? It. Is. Pathetic. 652. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Phew! We pulled that one out of our asses. We play the Saints 2 of the next 3 weeks. If we play them like we played today we will lose 47-3 in Charlotte then 59-10 in The Dome. 653. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 4:58 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) Note to Donovan McNabb: The Vikes-Pack game is still tied at the end of the 15 minute overtime period. Therefore the game ends in a tie. Those are the rules. 654. Ched Little posted: 11.24.2013 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) Wow! The Chiefs laid a big egg. That San Diego offense was pitiful at best in this game and they let them get away with murder... at least we MIGHT get a playoff spot at this rate. Smith needs to go. He has cost this team two straight games with his hack-ery. 655. cjs3872 posted: 11.24.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sean (#645), when I said that Roger McCluskey was possibly the weakest IndyCar champion since World War II, I also made the statement that McCluskey's title was prior to the inception of CART by six years, and noted that McCluskey's was a USAC title. But after that, there were no weak USAC/CART IndyCar champions prior to the 1996 IndyCar split. Even Tom Sneva, who won the USAC title in 1978 without winning a race, was a very good champion, as the '78 title was his second in a row. After all, even though Sullivan might have been a weak champion in your mind, he was a very good champion, winning 17 times (exactly 10% of his IndyCar starts), including all of the biggest races in IndyCar racing, which included wins in the Indianapolis 500, Pocono 500 (two of them), Michigan 500, and the Long Beach GP, which were the four biggest races on the circuit at that time (until the Pocono 500 was dropped due to the nature of the track surface). I believe Mario Andretti was the only other driver ever to win all four of those races. If there was a modern career Grand Slam in IndyCar racing, Sullivan would be one of the few drivers that could say that he won modern IndyCar racing's career Grand Slam (Indy, Pocono, California/Michigan, and Long Beach). And on top of that, Sullivan even won an IROC race in 1989, which was on the tough Nazareth oval, an not on a road course. Sullivan was, in no way, a weak champion. 656. cjs3872 posted: 11.24.2013 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @654, I don't see how you, or anyone else can pin the Chiefs loss today on their offense. When you score 38 points in an NFL game, and when you score a go ahead TD with 82 seconds left, as they did, that's a game you have to win. The Chiefs had the reputation as the best defense in the NFL. Not any more. Now I know Philip Rivers can still be a top-echelon QB, as he proved today, and has been proving most of the year, but the fact that the Chiefs defense has had ONE sack in the last three games, and the fact that they lost despite scoring 38 points at home, their loss is on the defense, and only on the defense. It might be too late for them this year, though it put them in what will be, barring a tie in the Raider-Titans game, a six-way tie for the final AFC playoff spot, but I think this game could be a turning point for the Chargers going ahead, because they've been losing this type of game this year, but now they've won one. Frankly, had that been a playoff game, today's Chargers-Chiefs game might be considered one of the best games in recent memory, as it had more lead changes than many NASCAR races legitimately have, as the lead changed back and forth all day. But Philip Rivers proved his usual late-season magic hasn't disappeared, because he's always been at his best late in the season. I think of those teams at 5-6 that are going for that last playoff spot in the AFC, the Chargers may be among the most dangerous, because they have the QB and the offense that other teams in that position lack. The question about them is their defense. 657. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll tell you the NFL stunner of the week: Randy Moss is a damn good studio analyst! I have always liked Randy. He is brutally honest (often to his own detriment) but not in the "Hey, look at me!" type of way. He seems like a regular guy who happens to be freakishly talented (the biggest reason I wanted San Fran to win last year's Super Bowl was so Randy could get his deserved ring). But he has been outstanding for FOX today. 658. Sean posted: 11.24.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Sullivan was, in no way, a weak champion." Well, none of the CART champions were weak. It's like when I call Bobby Labonte a weak champion. I'm comparing him to his contemporary champions, not all the drivers who have raced at all... That should be obvious. I'm just saying he's worse than Rick Mears, Johnny Rutherford, Al Unser, Mario Andretti, Bobby Rahal, Emerson Fittipaldi, Al Unser, Jr., Michael Andretti, Nigel Mansell, Jacques Villeneuve, Alex Zanardi, Juan Pablo Montoya, Gil de Ferran, Paul Tracy, and Sebastien Bourdais. That's not an insult. When I say Bobby Labonte doesn't impress me it's also in comparison to other champions, not the vast majority of drivers who have raced and never won a championship, which is also not an insult. 659. cjs3872 posted: 11.24.2013 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sullivan may not have been a legend, but I'll take him over a number of the CART champions from the post-split era, and possibly even over guys like Jacques Villeneuve and Nigel Mansell, even though Villeneuve and Mansell or had already been an F1 champion, or would become one. And I would put Sullivan over the likes of Bourdais, and possibly even de Ferran and Tracy, though that's a little more of a stretch. Sullivan was one of those guys that, if he had a longer career, might have put up even bigger numbers than he did. But the fact that he won the modern IndyCar racing Grand Slam as one of just two drivers to do so (the other was Mario Andretti), certainly is a big feather in his cap, as is the fact that he even won a championship in the era he raced in. Sure, his career pales in comparison to the likes of Foyt, Rutherford, Mears, the Unsers, and the Andrettis, but he was as good as any of his contemporaries, but he just wasn't around long enough, and that broken wrist he suffered in a practice crash at Indy in 1989 while the reigning series champion certainly curtailed his career. If not for that, we certainly would have heard a lot more from Danny Sullivan. I can pretty much guarantee that. 660. Watto posted: 11.24.2013 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Anyone who is gonna sit there and call Jimmie Johnson a "damned POS human being", among other things, has serious, serious issues. Please, feel free to take a look in the mirror and start to question things. You're giving Jeff Gordon fans a really, really bad name. Oh, he was angry about Hornish mounting him in a Chase race? He thought Montoya laid back on a restart and didn't hold pace at Dover? Wow! EVERY Cup driver who's ever run a Cup race must be a huge POS of a human being! Seriously dude. Take a long, hard look in the mirror. If you never question yourself, you'll never better yourself as a person, let alone make rational arguments. 661. Watto posted: 11.24.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) and I hate to harp on the point, but the most obvious thing about that is that it's coming from a Jeff Gordon fan, which is so clearly based on jealousy over Jeff not being the top guy at Hendrick that he resorts to these incredible conspiracy theories on a regular basis to try to delegitimize a guy who has been the top guy in Cup for quite a while. It's pretty funny because had he actually judged Jeff Gordon in the same ways he judges Jimmie Johnson, then he wouldn't be a fan of Gordon either. Both the 24 and 48 were turned on that late restart at Martinsville. One of them brushed it off and didn't let it affect the rest of the year. The other driver kept it in his mind for so long, that after casual contact, he tried to hook the guy in turn 3, fail, and waited on the the track to try again (and succeed). 3 innocent bystanders taken out, Brad Keselowski narrowly avoids it as he's racing for a Sprint Cup championship. Can you IMAGINE if Jimmie Johnson had done that? Would've been some hateful stuff from NRF. But hey, let's just brush it off. The real story is that Jimmie was angry that Sam wrecked him in a Chase race, but didn't pay him back. Gordon is a driver who, after getting passed by Scott Riggs at Bristol as Scott got one of his very few top 5s in Cup, proceeded to argue with Riggs after the race and talk crap about his driving in the post-race interviews. Gordon CANNOT be raced the way that he races others. How many times have we seen Gordon use the bumper? Plenty, but not a huge deal. How many times have we seen someone put the bumper on Gordon and Gordon NOT freak out about it? Never? NRF's hatred of JJ is so clearly built in jealousy that anyone who's not a fan of either driver can see it as clear as day. And with that, I've made my point well enough, and won't continue to harp on it. 662. 18fan posted: 11.24.2013 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I read that some of the Packers admitted that they were preparing for a 2nd overtime. Is it really that hard to know that in the NFL if the game is tied after 15 minutes of OT that the game is over? Also, really cold temperatures in New England tonight, could be bad news for Peyton. 663. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 8:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No need for Peyton with The Pats playing hot potato with the ball. Seriously who is gonna win the AFC? The Pats are pretty much Brady and 51 other guys. The Colts and Bengals (the likely division winners) have a ton of holes. Denver is handicapped by a QB notorious for bad cold weather play and bad overall playoff play. KC has feasted on an easy schedule. And everyone else is below .500. 664. 18fan posted: 11.24.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It could very easily be a team like Pittsburgh winning the AFC. This year in the AFC more than ever it will be determined by whatever team gets hot at the right time. 665. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Another Pats fumble! They are losing the ball like they lose post Spygate Super Bowls. 666. cjs3872 posted: 11.24.2013 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course 18fan, it doesn't make much of a difference if you flat-out GIVE Peyton Manning 2 TDs without him having to do anything, and that's exactly what the Patriots have done in 6 minutes and 6 seconds. they may have turned it over AGAIN. This game may already be over before the first quarter is over. And in regard to your mentioning the fact that some of the Packer players thought there would be a second overtime, they do know that the referee tells them during the OT coin toss that if the game is tied after the completion of the full 15 minutes of OT, that the game would end in a tie. Surely if they're not there at the coin toss that they'd be told by teammates that were there. In post-season, they would go to however many OT periods it would take to determine a winner (it actually happened last year), but not in the regular season. The first, and most elemental thing a participant in any sporting event has to know are the rules. How this continues to be a point of discussion, I don't know, because everyone should already know the rules before play even begins. 667. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This game is all about the running backs and defenses. Brady and Manning are the two most useless people to take the field so far. 668. Kyle posted: 11.24.2013 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (6) (0) Leave it to NRF to call one of the most articulate and intelligent people on this site a cunt. NRF is not nearly as smart as he thinks he is 669. 18fan posted: 11.24.2013 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now both the play clock and game clock are not working. That's pretty embarrassing. 670. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Translation: Manning's supporting cast has been more than twice as good Brady's. Stunning how many big rushers amd receivers, stat wise, Manning has had. Yet he only has one ring. 671. The Sound posted: 11.24.2013 - 9:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I knew the NFL overtime rules as a 6th grader when McNabb did not. My Lions tortured me in new ways today. I am scared to death of Thursday. 672. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeez, neither QB has ANY pocket mobility. You get to them, they are sacked. For once, as a fan of a team QBed by Cam Newton, I don't have blue balls watching these guys. 673. MStall41 posted: 11.24.2013 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (8) (0) I chose to ignore NRF's last silly comment for obvious reasons. I interpreted him resorting to personal attacks as a sign that I won the debate. 674. DB1995 posted: 11.24.2013 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey, I found out a good point to my weekend. My Titans won against the Raiders! 675. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 10:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok, I leave to do a standby for another station while they are on a call and it is 24-0. I come back and it is 24-21. Yikes. 676. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.24.2013 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looked like the Baltimore INT that Peyton threw. 677. TS1420 posted: 11.24.2013 - 11:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WTF Broncos! 678. joey2448 posted: 11.24.2013 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "Smith needs to go. He has cost this team two straight games with his hack-ery." Honestly, I really like Alex Smith. Especially with Andy Reid as his head coach. Up until last week against the Broncos, the Chiefs hadn't allowed more than 17 points in a game all year, but now they've allowed 27 and 41 in the last two. But Smith is good at QB. He isn't flashy or overwhelming, like RGIII, Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Russell Wilson (thus BSPN doesn't talk about him much), but he is damn consistent. He's only thrown four interceptions all year so far, which is an interception percentage of 1.1%, second only to Nick Foles, who hasn't thrown a single pick all year. (Btw, up until today's disastrous game against the Rams, the Bears' Josh McCown hadn't thrown a single pick all year either). Btw, the Broncos are letting this Sunday night game slip away after a 24-0 lead, much like their AFC West rivals Chargers did last year against THEM. 679. cjs3872 posted: 11.24.2013 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Nor does Smith play in a big market, joey2448. Aside from Wilson, all the guys you mentioned either play in a big market, or play for one of the marquee franchises, but Smith plays in Kansas City for a team that hasn't seriously contended since the Schottenheimer era except for 2003. The guys from major broadcast or cable networks almost always focus on the guys that play in major markets or for marquee teams, which is why guys like Alex Smith don't get a lot of publicity. They'll always focus on the Mannings, Brady (NE), Romo (Dal.), R'berger (Pitt.), RG Me (Wash.), and others that play in major markets, which is why you're not hearing much about what Carson Palmer is doing in Arizona, because don't look now, but the Cardinals are looking like a very serious threat to Seattle and New Orleans in the NFC, and nobody's noticing. I wonder if Carson Palmer is doing the same thing that Jim Plunkett did in 1980, and resurrect a franchise (albeit a cursed one), and yet nobody notices what Palmer's doing because of where they play their games (Arizona). I guarantee you that if Palmer played for the Redskins, Bears, or even the Dolphins or Browns, and did what he's doing with the Cardinals, the national media would immediately take notice because those are big market teams, or teams with great history. But the Kansas City Chiefs have none of that going for them, even if their founder literally gave the Super Bowl it's name. 680. joey2448 posted: 11.24.2013 - 11:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "RG Me (Wash.)" Hahaha was that intentional? Cuz that totally seems to describe his attitude. 681. TS1420 posted: 11.24.2013 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Collinsworth is high suggesting Manning should have ran for a 1st down. Yes. A non-running QB, who is slower than the speed of smell when he actually does run, with ankle problems should run for 10 yards... 682. cjs3872 posted: 11.24.2013 - 11:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) His, Colin Kaepernick's, and a few others, joey2448. Seriously, copyrighting your own TD celebration and naming it after yourself before you win anything? That's what Colin did last post-season. Frankly, I think the Redskins should give Kirk Cousins a chance, if he's healthy. They're not exactly Brady, Manning (both Peyton and Eli), and Brees in terms of how they approach their craft. 683. Paul posted: 11.24.2013 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "some of the Packer players thought there would be a second overtime" I'm not surprised. I remember watching the Packers' final offensive drive in overtime as Matt Flynn kept throwing short passes in an effort to get first downs (rather than go for the win), and jokingly saying to my friend "I think they're playing for the tie." In fact, I don't think the Vikings were aware that the game was about to end after the first overtime period because on their final play, Christian Ponder threw a short pass (I think it was a WR screen because the linemen were running downfield in front of him), as if to set-up a series of laterals in a last ditch effort to get into the endzone. But instead, the receiver held onto the ball, got tackled, and just like that the game was over. As a 21-year old fan who has followed football all my life and have known for years that an NFL game can end in a tie if the score is still tied after one overtime period, and yet some of these multi-million dollar paid players (Err "athletes." Sorry Donovan.) can't seem to figure out that they only get one overtime period to settle things if the game is still tied after 60 minutes of play. I remember watching the Steelers/Falcons game from 2002 when they tied, and I wasn't surprised one bit that they didn't get a second overtime period to decide a winner. And yet, there are paid players that don't seem to understand that the game will end within 15 minutes of overtime play, regardless of whether or not a team scores during that time. Amazing... "My Titans won against the Raiders!" Boo! :) 684. cjs3872 posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, one reason that Flynn was throwing short passes was the field position they were in. After all, the one thing they didn't want to have happen was an interception that could have lost them the game. And remember this. This means that the Green Bay Packers aren't going to be involved in any tie-breakers, and when the Eagles had their tie with the Bengals a few years ago, that actually helped them in their quest to make the playoffs, and they eventually wound up in the NFC Championship Game in Arizona that season. Sure, the Packers wanted to win, but they certainly didn't want to do something stupid after what they did to get into OT in the first place, and lose that game. 685. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Welker dropping a catch in a big moment? Someone needs to tell him it isn't the playoffs yet. Can't tell if a Brady/Manning tie is the best thing or the worst thing that could happen. 686. 18fan posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have been rooting for a tie, but the Broncos just gave it away. 687. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:17 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) EPIC FAIL! 688. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) After losing last week on an odd play, karma makes up for it and New England is gifted a win they probably shouldn't have had. 689. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Get well soon John Fox. Can't wait to see the Manning/Welker/Fox combo on the playoffs. Two goofs by Welker in OT, the drop then waiting way too long to call off the punt team killed them. Its just too bad the two greatest QBs ever (just ask the media) who are tied as the best QB in history couldn't tie in the game *pukes guts out* 690. 18fan posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I assume you rank Brady ahead of Peyton historically. At least the game wasn't decided by either of the QBs doing something amazing that we would hear about for the rest of the year. 691. The Long Shot posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul and cjs, also remember that Flynn is about as weak-armed as QBs come. He's not going to take very many shots downfield. The same can be said for Alex Smith, except that Smith is more accurate than Flynn is. Well, New England lucked into a victory. I was pretty curious as to which team DSFF was rooting for, or more likely, which team DSFF was pulling for to lose. 692. TS1420 posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The AFC is such a joke. Even the "good" teams suck ass and play like amateurs. Can we just make the NFC Championship Game the Super Bowl and tell all these AFC frauds to stay at home in January? 693. The Long Shot posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) As for the whole McNabb overtime thing, frankly, considering that this is the same guy who strung out his career for over a year because he felt he still deserved a starting job (even though he had fell to 3rd on Minnesota's depth chart, behind then-rookie Christian Ponder and converted wide receiver Joe Webb), I'm not shocked that he would say something idiotic like that. 694. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was hoping they both could somehow lose. 695. 18fan posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael Irvin just said that "the greatest quarterback we've seen with our own eyes will go down in a different way historically." Basically he was saying that as great as Peyton is, he will not go down as great historically as his numbers would indicate. 696. cjs3872 posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anybody with any reasonable amount of intellect would put Brady over Manning historically, 18fan. The real question is where to rank them all-time, and I have Brady fourth, behind only Montana, Unitas, and Elway. But Manning would be around 10th-14th on my list, because for all his statistics, he's never been able to get it done in the clutch, something that goes all the way back to his days at Tennessee. I would put Manning ahead of similar QBs, such as Marino, Fouts, and Moon, but I don't think he's above 10th-14th on my list. And TS1420, about what you said about the NFC, well next Monday Night, the Saints and Seahawks are going to play in Seattle, and a lot will be determined in that game, one way or the other. But as I said, the Cardinals are coming, and nobody should overlook the Panthers, either. I think those are the Wild Card teams, unless the Panthers overtake the Saints in the NFC South, which is very doable, in which case, the Saints and Cardinals would probably be the Wild Card teams from the NFC. But actually, the rest of the NFC teams, other than the Seahawks, Saints, Panthers, and Cardinals aren't doing any better than the AFC crowd is, because the Lions and Bears lost, the Packers tied the woeful Vikings at home, and the 49ers play Monday Night in Washington. The Rams may be as dangerous as any of the other hopefuls, but are probably too far behind. Interesting that of the four teams that had byes this week, three of them, Seattle, Philadelphia, and Cincinnati all led their divisions, though the Eagles were caught by the Cowboys today. 697. Paul posted: 11.25.2013 - 2:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Anybody with any reasonable amount of intellect would put Brady over Manning historically" A couple years ago, the NFL Network had a series called "The Top 100: NFL's Greatest Players," and the 100 players were ranked by current and former players, coaches, executives, and media members that were hand-selected by the NFL Network. Long story short, they had Peyton Manning ranked 8th (3rd among quarterbacks) and Tom Brady ranked 21st (7th among quarterbacks). I wouldn't have ranked Peyton over Brady, but apparently there are a number of individuals who are/were in the NFL who think so. "Flynn is about as weak-armed as QBs come." That's probably why he's destined to be a career backup quarterback in the NFL. He'll stick around for a number of years because he's smart and doesn't make bad decisions, but as the Seahawks and Raiders have found out, he's just not good enough to be a franchise quarterback, and the questionable arm strength is one knock against him. 698. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.25.2013 - 4:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (8) "I chose to ignore NRF's last silly comment for obvious reasons. I interpreted him resorting to personal attacks as a sign that I won the debate. " Seriously? I doubt it. You never once pulled out a fact in the debate. In fact, you started the personal attacks. 699. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 5:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would rank Brady ahead of Manning. Even post Spygate, in his 5 playoff seasons, he made two Super Bowls, one additional AFC title game, and has had 2 home one and dones. As far as accomplishments, the 2 Super Bowls and 3 total AFC title game appearances are as much as Peyton's entire career. Now his pre 2007 career is tough to evaluate. We don't just how much illegal help he was getting when he won 3 Super Bowls, won his first 10 playoff games, and had a 12-2 playoff record. All we know is the NFL very quickly, after reviewing the evidence, lowered some humongous penalties and swept it under the rug. So I think we have to take his early success with a grain or two of salt. 700. cjs3872 posted: 11.25.2013 - 7:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I don't put much into Spygate, as far as the Patriots' Super Bowl wins are concerned, and never have. Remember that when they won their first Super Bowl over the Rams, that they had played the Rams during that season, and even though they lost, they had figured out enough during that game to know quite a few of their tendencies. Then a few years later, when they defeated the Eagles in the Super Bowl, few people remember that they had played and handily defeated them the previous season. The Patriots always seemed to play their best when it mattered most. A bigger reason for why the Patriots post-season success leveled off was simply the law of averages catching up to them. And by the way, from what I saw last night, unless they don't get a cold weather game in the playoffs, the only chance the Broncos have of reaching the Super Bowl this year is to hope the Colts get home field in the playoffs and beat the Colts in Indy, because I don't think there's any way that Peyton Manning can win a playoff game in cold conditions, as was proved again last night, because he simply doesn't have the arm strength to succeed in such conditions. That's one major reason that ran the ball like they did last night. They were afraid of Manning's arm betraying them, so they took the ball out of Manning's arm as much as they could, and it almost worked. But if the Broncos have to go to New England, Cincinnati, or Kansas City, or have a playoff game at home in conditions similar to last night, as was the case last year, they don't have much of a chance, simply because Manning's arm isn't strong enough in those conditions. 701. The Long Shot posted: 11.25.2013 - 10:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Indy is not going to win home field advantage in the playoffs. After embarrassing losses to St. Louis and Arizona in back-to-back weeks, it's clear that their defense is one of the 5 worst in the league, and their offensive line can't block worth a damn. They'll win the AFC South, without a doubt, as Tennessee is very mediocre and Houston and Jacksonville are both terrible, but I'd be surprised if they beat out Denver/Kansas City for the #1 seed. 702. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (5) *commits suicide* *applause from other people* 703. BON GORDON posted: 11.25.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Oh jeez am I on the wrong board again???! I thought this was a racing website?? Oh well, my bad. I can't escape football talk no matter where I go. I live in Pittsburgh and it's constant talk on the news and everywhere about BIG Ben and Mike Tomlin. I wish I enjoyed football more but I'm a casual fan at best. NASCAR is it for me, sorry fellas. 704. cjs3872 posted: 11.25.2013 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not saying they are, The Long Shot. I'm just saying that, unless they get a balmy day in Denver, that having to play at Indy, where by the way, they lost earlier this season, the Broncos have almost no chance to get to the Super Bowl because Peyton Manning can't throw in cold conditions, and even worse, their coaching staff knows it, which is why they ran so much last night. It seemed like every pass Peyton threw was a wobbler, while Tom Brady could throw with authority, even into the wind. The difference seemed that stark. But with Denver's loss last night, any one of five teams could still get that #1 seed in the AFC, Denver, New England, Indianapolis, Kansas City, and a team nobody seems to be talking about, Cincinnati. All five of those teams are now within two games of each other, with Denver and Kansas City playing each other next week. And if thy play the way they did yesterday, San Diego's going to have some say in this, even if they don't make the playoffs themselves, because they play three of those five teams, and have already beaten one of the other two (Indianapolis). If the Chargers get that last playoff spot, which I don't think they will, they will truly earn it, since they will have to have a winning record against the AFC's top five teams (they're currently 2-1 against those teams, with three more games left against them), possibly even sweep their remaining games with Cincinnati, Denver and Kansas City, but lose no more than one. 705. anonymous posted: 11.25.2013 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Back to NASCAR: The NSCS awards banquet will be on Fox Sports 2, which for many of us including myself, don't have that channel and in my book the 2013 banquet will always be looked at as "unbroadcast". I mean, last night the NNS and NCWTS banquet was shown on Fox Sports 1, so even if it can't be live, Fox Sports 1 should at least show the NSCS banquet, even if it's in the middle of the night. Hopefully when NBC takes over the award banquet broadcasts, they will be shown on NBC Sports Network and not some sub-channel that hardly ever has an audience of over 10,000 viewers, unlike Fox Sports 2. 706. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "DSFF, I don't put much into Spygate, as far as the Patriots' Super Bowl wins are concerned, and never have." I do. First off there is the fact they won 3 Super Bowls before it, won at least one playoff game each year they made the playoffs, never lost in the playoffs at home, overachieved just by making the AFC title game in '06, and had 3 road wins in the playoffs (twice in Pittsburgh, once in San Diego). Of their two playoff losses, one came in Denver when the most clutch kicker in NFL history uncharacteristically missed some key kicks, and the other one, they forced Indy to make a huge comeback at home in a game they shouldn't have been in. By contrast, since then, despite their new high powered offense, they have lost 2 Super Bowls to Eli Manning and the Giants by scoring just 14 and 20 points (in their 3 SB wins with an unheralded cast, they scored 20, 32, and 24 points). They have lost 3 times at home in the playoffs to Joe Flacco twice and Buttfumble. Those are the types of QBs Belichick used to feast on. They have 2 one and dones, haven't even had to play a road playoff game, just two neutral site Super Bowls which they lost. That makes me extremely suspicious. Throw in the way the NFL quickly laid out some huge penalties, gave no real explanation as to what they found in the tapes they confiscated THEN DESTROYED THOSE TAPES (that doesn't raise a red flag to you?), and basically swept it under the rug. Why would they do that? So I pretty much throw out anything they did before 2007 until I get a better explanation from the league or The Pats. So from '07 to present, Brady has 2 MVPs, 2 Super Bowl appearances, a lot of broken records, a lot of disappointing playoff losses, and underachieving in the playoffs. He is basically Steve Young. Appropriate. The Successor To Joe Montana (as Brady was known for a while) is just the guy who was literally The Successor To Joe Montana. I compare the '01-'06 Pats to The Driver Who Shall Not Be Named from '02-present. Obviously no amount of cheating can turn some schmuck into a 3 time Super Bowl champ/6 time Cup champ. But is can turn a really good QB/driver into a legend. 707. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.25.2013 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh jeez am I on the wrong board again???! I thought this was a racing website?? Oh well, my bad. I can't escape football talk no matter where I go. I live in Pittsburgh and it's constant talk on the news and everywhere about BIG Ben and Mike Tomlin. I wish I enjoyed football more but I'm a casual fan at best. NASCAR is it for me, sorry fellas." You live in Pittsburgh too? I absolutely cannot stand the NFL, NHL, or MLB because it's the only sports people like. It's quite miraculous that there are some racing fans like us in this area considering it's almost irrelevant to Pittsburghers. That's why I want to move to Indianapolis as soon as I get the opportunity. 708. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.25.2013 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Results to date thus far: NEW YORK JETS @ Baltimore Ravens L Pittsburgh Steelers @ CLEVELAND BROWNS L Tampa Bay Buccaneers @ DETROIT LIONS L Minnesota Vikings @ GREEN BAY PACKERS (sorry guys) T JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS @ Houston Texans W San Diego Chargers @ KANSAS CITY CHIEFS L Carolina Panthers @ MIAMI DOLPHINS L Chicago Bears @ ST. LOUIS RAMS L INDIANAPOLIS COLTS @ Arizona Cardinals L Tennessee Titans @ OAKLAND RAIDERS L DALLAS COWBOYS @ New York Giants W Denver Broncos @ NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS W SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS @ Washington Redskins TBD So far I am: 3-8-1 this week. First time I ever post picks, worst I ever do. Natch. 709. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) That's because you suck NRF! Just kidding, I think I'm the only one who likes that you are here. 710. The Sound posted: 11.25.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I like NRF. I just have to wonder if he is truly ignorant of the absurdity of some of his comments from time to time. As far as racing debates, this is a racing forum, is it not? Why can we not have civil, respectable debates without resorting to personal attacks? As far as repeating debates that have already occurred, just remember that not all of us have been here that long, so a debate that may have been resolved last year might not be known to everyone. For some strange reason, my TV package includes FUEL, which is now FS2. So I can watch the awards banquet despite not having FS1. 711. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I like NRF. I just have to wonder if he is truly ignorant of the absurdity of some of his comments from time to time." People say the same thing about me. No, me and NRF just post random shit for the hell of it >_> 712. Scott B posted: 11.25.2013 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Racing news, the #47 team will be switching manufacturers from Toyota to Chevy and forming an alliance with EGR. Well, it was expected, but still sort of news. I can see them getting some decent finishes at plate races or road courses, but I still have doubts they're going to be much of a threat at the mile and a halfers. 713. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.25.2013 - 6:02 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Cincinnati, CJS, is pretty banged up with injuries on defense. It is the defense that keeps Cincinnati in games like Miami and Baltimore that they should have won. I can't believe inconsistent teams like Tennessee and Pittsburgh have some hope of a wildcard sport after losing six games already. I haven't gotten into the NFL that much the past few years as College Football has taken up more of my Saturdays due to the "murderer's row" aspect of every game matters for teams in the hunt for BCS games. Take the Oregon Ducks players complaining about being the perennial Rose Bowl bridesmaid team... well, what happens???? They got thumped by an average Arizona team 42-16 and will end up with no BCS Bowl Bid. With the passing of the current BCS after this year, I welcome the four team playoff, but agree that only conference champions should play for the national championship. No more Alabama 2011 scenarios. 714. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.25.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn better hope Auburn finds a passing game if the Barn has any chance against Bama. Nobody outside of maybe Stanford in Div. 1 FBS is going to run more than 80 or 90 yards on Alabama especially not after the Texas A&M game earlier this year. If your offense can create chances in the secondary, not turn over the ball, win TOP, and score touchdowns in the red zone not settle for field goals, stretch the defense with nearly 80-85 plays throughout the game like A&M did in 2012, Auburn will win. 715. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.25.2013 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (4) I hate NRF's freaking guts most of the time. Even when he makes a sound argument, he has something to say about everything. Wait a minute... what the hell am I saying? 716. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.25.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I still think MStall41 is arrogant and condescending while trying to force objectivity upon people (since when do people have to be objective about sports? When is sports truly objective for that matter?), but when the man wants to make a point he is usually spot on. I just wish he'd stop being so Jim Utter-esque in his approach. If Alabama wins the Iron Bowl in a 49-42 shoot out, MStall41 is the type of person to say I'm being "whiny" and "lame" if I say I didnt like the game since it was "objectively very good." Sort of like he's said to me about races Jimmie has won. But like I said, all that aside, he makes very good points a lot of the time. Jarrettfan88, without a doubt the Tigers are still the underdogs this year in the Iron Bowl. Actually, Auburn's the underdog even in years that we have the superior team. I'm just thankful the Iron Bowl is relevant again. And after this weekend, it not only has SEC Championship implications, but National Championship implications for both teams. #1 vs. #4. I think it's safe to say that Auburn carries the rest of the country on its shoulders this weekend as well since most people want to see this Alabama juggernaut taken down. It's really hard for people who don't live in Alabama to understand, but there is about a 70-30 divide on fans in this state with the 70% being Alabama fans. And about 85% of that 70% are the type of people who would take out a second mortgage on their mobile home just to go to the Iron Bowl because their entire sense of self-worth comes from whether or not a group of college aged kids can play a good game of football. NRF, if you truly think Jimmie Johnson is the worst man on Earth, you've onviously never met this 85% of Bammers. They truly are the scum of the sports world. If Auburn wins this game, to the 85% it won't be because Auburn just outplayed Alabama. NO. That's not possible. To them he only way Auburn can win is if the refs are on our side or we just got lucky or we cheated (hmmm those accusations sound like some of the ones made against a certain driver...). WAR EAGLE! 717. murb posted: 11.25.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Even when the season is over the bickering never ends. God damn. Just cut it out, for the sake of everyone else who is a part of this board. What a ridiculous argument that was with Nico and MStall. Yeah. Jimmie Johnson won the championship. I don't like it either, but oh well. If it is really that big of a deal, then maybe just take a break from RR for a little bit. It is the off season, after all. I also just want to commend the football conversations real quick. I'm nothing more than a casual football fan, so I actually really enjoy reading some of the in depth stuff you guys post about football. Like all of that "All Time Greatest QB" Stuff that CJS and a couple others were talking about. That was interesting for me, someone who isn't completely familiar with football history and that type of thing. 718. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Can we talk about the big surprise in college football this year: dook! If they win out, they will be in the ACC title game for football. dook! Ranked! In the ACC football title game! Granted the divisions in the ACC are kinda unbalanced with Florida State and Clemson in one division, still. dook in the ACC football title game? I don't think I can handle dook being good in football as well as basketball. Luckily I was really young and don't remember their "glory" days with Spurrier. Their performance this year has been stunning and difficult to watch (unless you are a fan of schools full of stuck up rich kids). At least it provided for one really hilarious moment. When dook beat Thug U at Wallace Wade "Stadium" (most high school fields are nicer), their fans stormed the field afterwards, and there were so few of them, they couldn't even cover the midfield logo lol. 719. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.25.2013 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Can we talk about the big surprise in college football this year: dook!" DSFF, Imma let you finish, but Auburn is the biggest surprise in college football this year. Seriously, 3-9 to a 10 (possibly 13) win season in one year. That doesn't happen! 720. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.25.2013 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Seriously, 3-9 to a 10 (possibly 13) win season in one year." I should add 3-9 to a 10 (possibly 13) win season in one year with more or less THE EXACT SAME TEAM. Just goes to show how much of an effect a change in the coaching staff can have sometimes. 721. cjs3872 posted: 11.25.2013 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zack, that may not be as odd as you might think, because that has been known to happen in the NFL more often than you might think. A classic case was with the Chargers in 1992, when Bobby Ross replaced Dan Henning, an the Chargers became an elite team, winning the AFC West in '92, and getting to their only Super Bowl just two years later. The same thing happened with the Steelers that same year, as Bill Cowher took them to a #1 seed in the AFC playoffs that year. A more recent case would be what Pete Carroll did with the Seahawks. We laugh at that team because they won the NFC West (or Worst) with a 7-9 record in Carroll's first year there, but the fact that they beat Saints, then were competitive with the Bears showed that they were more formidable than their record showed. And just look at what's happened in New Orleans this year. They get Sean Payton back after his suspension, and suddenly the Saints are back among the elite this year. And the greatest coaching-based turnaround was what Don Shula did with the Dolphins in 1970 (even more immediate than what Vince Lombardi did in Green Bay), turning them from a 3-win team to a playoff team with 10 wins in just one year, and within four years, turned them into back-to-back Super Bowl champions, with a perfect season thrown in there for good measure. Coaching does make a difference. 722. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.25.2013 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "DSFF, Imma let you finish, but Auburn is the biggest surprise in college football this year." Ok Kanye :) Murb, all you need to know about QBs in NFL history is this: Joe Montana is the greatest ever. Period. End of discussion. He may not have the greatest numbers, but if you need a QB in a pressure spot to save your life, you pick Montana and not think twice. He is the Earnhardt of QBs. Talented, cool under pressure, delivered the championship hardware, got the stats that actually mattered, the face of the greatest generation of their respective sports. 723. Marty Smith posted: 11.25.2013 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (4) (3) I would like to respectfully disagree with you, DaleSrFanForever. Jimmie Johnson is the greatest quarterback in NFL history. I have video footage of Jimmie Johnson tossing around a football in his backyard as child. And let me tell you, he had a better throwing motion than Joe Montana, Tom Brady, John Elway, Peyton Manning, Johnny Unitas, Dan Marino and all those other false greats. Jimmie Johnson would be a 12 straight Super Bowl Champion, Super Bowl MVP, League MVP and Madden Cover Boy had he gone to the NFL. 724. David posted: 11.26.2013 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^The satire returneth. 725. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.26.2013 - 12:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to make (at least) one more post about this. Sorry in advance... I just can't emphasize how much more alive the city of Auburn, Alabama is this year during Saturdays in the fall compared to last year. The bars still fill up once the game is done, but there is a big difference between now and then...Last year we drank our sorrows away, this year we drink and party in celebration. I just wish the ole trees were here to celebrate with us. If you want another person in the world of sports who is far, far, FAR worse than Jimmie Johnson look no further that Harvey "Al from Dadeville" Updyke. Perfect example of the 85% I talked about in 716. The man, who despite having no real connection to The University of Alabama other than the fact that he knew he was a Bammer since birth*, poisoned oak that were not only living pieces of history buy also had a special place in the hearts in the millions of students/alumni of Auburn University. The man caused PERMANENT damage to living organisms just because someone TAPED (as in, can be removed easily) a Cam Newton jersey to Bear Bryant's statue on the campus in Tuscaloosa. Apparently, Mr. Updyke observed this while in town for the 2010 Iron Bowl, which he attended with tickets he bought despite not being able to afford them* (remember what I said about second mobile home mortgages...). Interesting fact about Coach Bear Bryant, who I actually have a lot of respect for,....HE NEVER WORE HOUNDSTOOTH. OK, never isn't entirely true. There is one photo of him wearing genuine houndstooth (which actually refers to a very specific design). Other than that, he wore black and white, checkered plaid. Leave it to the Bammers start a trend that doens't even really make sense. *Both of the things I said here were quoted from Mr. Updyke himself in the ESPN documentary "Roll Tide/War Eagle". WAR DAMN EAGLE. 726. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.26.2013 - 1:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) @723: That had me falling over laughing. 727. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.26.2013 - 6:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dook's Wallace Wade Stadium reminds me of my high school track and field and football stadium, except my high school football team is a perennial playoff contender while Duke is on the upswing as a football program. Luckily, last bowl season, my Cincinnati Bearcats beat Duke in a dandy Belk Bowl... so I'm praying for a beatdown of Louisville, taking back the Keg of Nails, and a USF or SMU upset of Central Florida. I agree on Harvey Updike, who is the biggest POS in the state of Alabama for poisoning the Toomer's Trees... Of all the big programs in College Football right now, Alabama and Ohio State seem on the verge of letdowns. Obviously the Buckeyes play that team up north at the Big Out House in Ann Arbor, Michigan and the defensive juggernaut Michigan State in the Big Ten Championship game... so between the two, Ohio State might get upset before Alabama. 728. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.26.2013 - 6:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unfortunately Marty Smith, Jimmie Johnson ended up in the wrong sport. However, he would still be criticized as a pocket passer, if said video footage is correct. 729. Dense Drip posted: 11.26.2013 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What's going to happen to Josh Wise now? 730. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.26.2013 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (8) (0) So I have just watched the first 2/3 of the 1989 Bristol Spring race. And I have a few thoughts. First off the intro. Instead of hiring some artist who was once really famous, but is now hanging on by the skin of their teeth to fame (Kid Rock, Gretchen Wilson) it is just Bob Jenkins narrating a little 3 minute spot along with an obviously very cheap recording band. And they did a spoof of the old Batman shows from the 60s, showing wrecks from the previous few Bristol races with the hilariously cheesy captions over the crashing cars like in the TV show fights ("BAM!, "ZAP!"). Bob mentions NASCAR's Dynamic Duo (Dale and Rusty) and how each hit the wall at Darlington the previous week. Then it ends with Darrell standing there, with a slightly distorted voice, saying "The Dynamic Duo? Ha! Better watch out for the ol' Joker, he's gonna show up". It was great! It was cheesy, cheaply produced, very minimal, yet I couldn't help but smile and but sucked in. Even Darrell had me smiling! No 20 hour pre race show, no infield studio panel with 60 "experts", no expensive production pieces with washed up artists. It was everything modern day FOX and BSPN aren't. They even used Darrell properly! And they didn't take themselves so goddamn seriously. Then the race started. The track had just been repaved and it had rained all weekend so no rubber was on the track. So at first they couldn't pass and run all over the track like they usually could on the old asphalt Bristol (you guys can try to compare the new Bristol to the asphalt Bristol, it isn't close, those races were epic, these ones nowadays suck). So just 11 laps into the race (the laps were right at 17 seconds then, so we are talking about 4 minutes) the announcers are openly lamenting the lack of passing. ELEVEN LAPS! In 1989 this is alarming to them. Eleven laps with no passing. And they are taken aback by this enough to talk openly about it. That is just how much the racing back then kicked ass. One race has the cars single file eleven laps in and the broadcasters are having to assure us rubber will be put down, and passing will happen. Of course by the 50 lap mark they are passing regularly again. And let me tell you, the drivers then were WHEEL MEN! Even the lesser drivers. At one point Greg Sacks, one of the lowest ranked drivers of this era, takes the lead. As he is doing so, the car he is passing gets loose and side swipes him. As this happens, 3rd place unknown Ernie Irvan in DK Ulrich's #2 car who has also led for a bit and wants to lead some more bumps Greg getting him completely sideways. Not only does Greg Sacks not lose it, he takes the damn lead while in the process of wrecking before straightening it out. And keeps the lead until Ernie passes him. 731. 18fan posted: 11.26.2013 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I watched the 1995 Goodwrench 500 at Rockingham (The first unrestricted race for the Monte Carlo) last night. Similar to what DSFF was talking about, the announcers were addressing why there was a portion of the race, that wasn't even that long, where there was little passing. It was refreshing watching a race with no debris cautions and no cautions as soon as a car touches the wall. Therefore, only 4 cars finished on the lead lap, but the racing was still much better than it is today. I also recently watched the final race at North Wilkesboro and I still get emotional every time I watch it, even though I was only 1 at the time. John Kernan hit the nail on the head in his final comments after that race when he said that we wouldn't see the same quality of racing on the bigger tracks that were coming onto the schedule that we did at places like Wilkesboro. 732. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.26.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tears, DSFF... many of us long for racing to resemble the golden era of the mid eighties to late nineties. The October Matinsville race was outstanding because one grove short track racing requires all the WHEELMEN skills drivers of yesteryear had. 733. cjs3872 posted: 11.26.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) And of course Jarrett88fan, who wins that race at Martinsville, but one of the all-time greats, Jeff Gordon, who looked like his old self that day, and when he needed it he had the speed in his car to take the lead and the win from Matt Kenseth. Yes, the same Jeff Gordon who's one of the great "wheelmen" for the last 20-25 years, who's won at every track he's raced at in the Cup Series except one, Kentucky, and they've only been running there for three years, or he'd probably have wins there, as well. And that includes that final race at North Wilkesboro and four races at ultra-tough Rockingham, where only a handful of the top drivers today have even raced. In fact, he's been so versatile that he's won at least five times at NINE different tracks, which encompass almost every kind of style of track on the circuit, from plate racing to intermediates to short tracks to road courses, and even the one-of-a-kind tracks at Darlington and Pocono, where he has 13 combined victories. Gordon may not be the best now, but as far as I'm concerned, he's still the greatest of the active drivers from a historical point of view, and that includes Jimmie Johnson, and for that very reason, because his greatness has spanned virtually every kind of track for over 20 years now. 734. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.26.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of Rockingham, the full Rockingham 1989 Fall race is on YouTube, Mark's first win. I need ro watch it soon. I watched the first bit before they cranked the engines. They interviewed Dale and he apologized for cussing on national TV the previous week at North Wilkesboro in his epic interview. He sounded as sincere saying he was sorry for that as he did when he said he didn't mean to spin Terry at Bristol '99 or wreck Darrell at Richmond '86. 735. cjs3872 posted: 11.26.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other words DSFF, Dale wasn't sincere at all in that interview. 736. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.26.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ah, what that hell! My Top 10 Live Earnhardt interviews: 10) 1998 Die Hard 500: After flipping at Dega again and getting burned by Bill's car, when asked how he is immediately after leaving the care center, he simply replies "Hot". 9) 2000 Pocono 500: After The Squeal spent 5 minutes rambling in victory lane trying to sound tough, Dale only needs 10 seconds. When asked about his one finger salute to Methfield on the cool down lap, he said "I told him he's #1". 8) 1986 Richmond: Cold as ice. "Just hung up with ol' Darrell" as he tried not to smile. What Dale did was wrong, but C'Mon, who wouldn't love to wreck ol' Darrell on a low speed half mile track? 7) 1997 Daytona 500: "I realized all the wheels were still on it. I asked the guy if it would crank up and it did, so I said get out, give me my car back". Do you realize how few people know who even won that race? (Outside this board of course) 6) 1989 North Wilkesboro: "I gave him the entire bottom lane and he knocked the shit out of me". That's how I saw it too. Then when Berrgren asked "How does this affect your points outlook" he snapped "How do you think?!?". 5) 1999 Bristol Night Race: "I didn't mean to wreck him, meant to rattle his cage though". And you have to give Dale credit, he tried to hold back that mischievous smile his fans miss so much. But failed. It was there for everyone to see. I think he really enjoyed being booed again. 4) 1987 The Winston: "Bill spun that 5 car out, caused a big mess, then come up there and tried to spon me out twice. I didn't take it". Bad. Ass. 3) 1993 Winston 500: I still remember seeing that interview live. Dale was visibly shaken after sending his toughest competitor and good friend on such an awful ride. He was clutching Rusty's gloves like he never wanted to let go, like if he held them tight enough Rusty would be alright. 2) 1996 Brickyard 400: A rare look right into the soul of a true competitor. He may have had on those big sunglasses and big billed hat, but we saw right through them. Having to give his car up in that race was torture. 1) 2000 Daytona 500: Mix words? No way. An epic rant which accurately summed up what we had seen that afternoon. 737. murb posted: 11.26.2013 - 10:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There's this guy on YouTube called "TheRacingJungleIII" that has been putting up some great old school races lately. Lots of "Golden Era" stuff. Most notably, he's got a bunch of Talladega races from about 1988-1995. I was actually gonna go watch his 1994 DieHard 500 (Fat Mouth Spencer's last win) once I get around to it. And he's also got quite a bit of old CART stuff as well. But yeah, that's a sweet channel on YouTube right now for old races. I highly recommend it. 738. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.26.2013 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was it the '94 or '95 Die Hard 500 where Gordon accidentally clips Schrader in the middle of the race, sending Kenny flipping and Gordon, much like Dale at the same track in May '93, shaken, only Gordon still has to finish the race and everyone is more concerned about Gordon than Schrader. Pretty funny looking back I think it was '95 but I'm not 100%. I guess they figured "Hell, Schrader's done flipped at Daytona before, been in countless sprint car wrecks, and lost half a thumb working on an engine, he's alright, not sure about this Gordon kid and his mental state though". And Kenny razzing Jeff in that SPEED Hendrick doc about the incident and how they were more worried about Jeff than the guy who actually flipped at 200 mph, and Jeff being a great sport about it, was a highlight. 739. murb posted: 11.26.2013 - 11:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, the Gordon/Schrader incident was 1995. 740. cjs3872 posted: 11.26.2013 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that comment that Dale, Sr. made about the poor quality of the racing was not made after the Daytona 500 in 2000, but rather after his qualifying race that year. But that was something that could be seen years before it happened, because the quality of racing had been getting worse since 1995, and that wasn't the only time that Earnhardt complained about not being able to pull up and pass. He also complained about it being "IndyCar racing" following the 1997 Busch Clash because nobody could pull up and pass, so his complaints following that qualifying race wasn't the first time he had complained about the quality of racing at Daytona. But as for his comments after the '87 All-Star Race, I don't completely buy them, because, while Elliott may have spun Bodine out, Earnhardt was trying to run Elliott off the track that entire time, and the last time he did so, it almost cost him the race because Terry Labonte almost passed him, and then he tried to run Labonte off the track, but unlike Elliott, Labonte backed off and settled for second instead of risking a crash. I also find it interesting that all these years later, Labonte, to my knowledge, has never once been interviewed about the '87 All-Star Race, because he really had the best seat for everything that happened in that final 10-lap segment. 741. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.27.2013 - 1:17 am Rate this comment: (2) (1) Oh I never said Dale was right in what he said (except his May 1990 comments about the Daytona 500 were completely 100% accurate, it would be hard to have a badder day that that). But has anyone in racing history been able to sound any more badass with fewer words? He never gave long answers. But what he said packed a punch. Even his epic 2000 Daytona rant (whenever it was) was less than 30 seconds. Hell, for most of his career, it took Gordon 2 minutes just to start answering the question he was asked in interviews because he had to thank everyone and say "awesome" 20 times lol. 742. DB1995 posted: 11.27.2013 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Im gonna do best and worst paint scheme list Cup: Best, Trevor Bayne retro Tiny Lund Daytona 500 car worst, Dale Jr. Xbox 1 Nationwide: Best, Cole Whitt Gold Bond Bristol night race worst, obviously Pastrana Trucks: Best, Brett Moffit Good Year Worst, Tim George Jr Applebees scheme My opinion, feel free to post yours 743. Anonymous posted: 11.27.2013 - 12:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Awesome" is a jointly-held copyright of Hendrick Motorsports and Jeff Gordon, Inc. 744. We need more Onion posted: 11.27.2013 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have also been watching older races, mostly CART, but I have watched the '95 TranSouth 400 (again), man that race was awesome. Proper amount of racing and many wrecks, almost everyone seemed to have troubles, also drivers had characters, I will never forget KP's comment on filling Darlington up with water and making it a fishing pond. I will probably watch some late 90's-early 00's Busch races soon. and @murb, you might know that, but TheRacingJungle has 2 other channels with an amazing repertoire of classic and newer races. 745. We need more Onion posted: 11.27.2013 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So... paint schemes Cup: Best - Trevor Bayne's "Henry Ford" Ford or Joe Nemecheck's Martinsville Toyota Worst - David Reutimann's VooDoo Toyota Nationwide: Best - Eric McClure's Reynolds Toyota (The one with Silver as a main colour and metallic blue striping) Worst - There were many ugly cars, especially: Smith's Helleman's Anniversary Chevy, #24 Frontline Wraps Toyota and Johanna's Charlotte Chevy (Sorry for having a patriotic scheme here, but that was plain woeful) Trucks: Best - Brett Moffit's AISIN Toyota Worst - Paludo's Brandt Brasil Chevy or Hamlin's Air Jordan Toyota 746. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.27.2013 - 1:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I love watching the end of the TransSouth 400 and the battle for 2nd between Earnhardt and Musgrave. Ted's car was SO much better handling. Didn't matter. 747. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.27.2013 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another race recently uploaded on YouTube, at long last, is the 1981 Carolina 500. This was ESPN's first ever NASCAR telecast, and Bob Jenkins and Eli Gold almost look unrecognizable in the beginning. Definitely a race to watch, as Rockingham's 500-mile races were always a true test of equipment and car reliability. 748. The Sound posted: 11.27.2013 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NASCAR has officially purchased Iowa Speedway. 749. 18fan posted: 11.27.2013 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, that race, which was the first race after they repaved Darlington, looked like the first few races on the repaved Kansas track. 750. murb posted: 11.27.2013 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "and @murb, you might know that, but TheRacingJungle has 2 other channels with an amazing repertoire of classic and newer races." Yeah, I did know that. There are some great races on his other channels too. RacingJungleIII is the one where he is currently uploading "new" old races though I believe. 751. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.27.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I would like to commend NASCAR on buying Iowa. It is a great racetrack and I hope to see Cup races there replacing some of these boring cookie cutters. And yes, there are a ton of spectacular old races on YouTube. Just a wonderland. 752. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.27.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, the Atlanta Braves and Cobb County, GA have come to an agreement so the new stadium will officially open in 2017. I guess now starts the bidding war for naming rights. With all the huge businesses that are based in Atlanta, this could get expensive. But for me, it will always be the BBMMS (Big Boss Man Memorial Stadium). 753. TS1420 posted: 11.27.2013 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That's weird that they are calling the purchase of Iowa Speedway a "NASCAR" purchase. Did they finally give up pretending NASCAR & ISC are two different entities or did Baby Brian pony up the money to have his own toys (Waaaa! Sister won't share her tracks with me! I want my own!)? I have a feeling one of two bad things is gonna happen after NASCAR's purchase of Iowa Speedway. 1 - The track gets death sentenced like Pikes Peak or Nazareth after a few years. 2 - Darlington gets curb-stomped off the schedule to make room for a race at.... Chicagoland part II while Iowa is still held down to the feeder series' & IndyCar. 754. David posted: 11.27.2013 - 6:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of watching races on YouTube, I just finished watching the IndyCar finale at Fontana this year. I have a few thoughts of my own: 1) Helio Castroneves, for the first part of the race, looked very much like Tony Stewart at Homestead in 2011. He just did NOT want to lose. He was driving all over the place, making passes left and right, and doing pretty much everything he needed to do to win the title. But then, it all went downhill. First, the front wing on his car broke, then Roger Penske made the bonehead call of the race, dooming him to finish a lap down. He very nearly caught a break when Dixon had to bring his car to the pits for overheating issues, but then Bourdais crashed. But overall, you cannot say he wasn't trying to bring it home for Team Penske. Speaking of Penske... 2) AJ Allmendinger is an extremely talented race car driver. There's just no other way to put it. He stepped into the #2 car for the Indy 500 and quite possibly could have won the thing had his seat belt not broke in the middle stages. Then he goes to Fontana, only his second open-wheel oval start in seven years, and runs like a veteran. His only error the entire race was when he misjudged Ed Carpenter's pit entry and spun into the wall. But he could possibly still make a career out of open-wheel racing instead of wasting his talent at JTG-Daugherty "Racing" in 2014. He's only 31 (32 this December). He's still got time. But in the meantime, he reminded me why I'm a fan of his. He is awesome. Just plain awesome. 3) The race itself was amazing. So many drivers looked to have a legitimate shot at even before either crashing or succumbing to mechanical failure. Bourdais, Kimball, Allmendinger, Tagliani, even Munoz...you name them. Personally, I've always liked races with high attrition rates. They really separate the best from the rest. The men from the boys. And this race not only had that, but some pretty freaking awesome on-track competition as well. I wish I could watch more IndyCar races next year. There are many other things I could mention... 755. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.27.2013 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, a week ago I said I would do 2014 predictions for F1, IndyCar, and NASCAR. Here they are: 2014 F1 Top 10: 1.) Fernando Alonso 2.) Sebastian Vettel (The team might struggle adapting to the turbocharged V6s) 3.) Kimi Raikkonen 4.) Nico Rosberg 5.) Lewis Hamilton 6.) Romain Grosjean 7.) Daniel Ricciardo 8.) Jenson Button 9.) Kevin Magnussen 10.) Sergio Perez (If him going to Force India is true) Big race winners: Monaco - Kimi Raikkonen Great Britain - Sebastian Vettel Spa - Fernando Alonso Monza - Fernando Alonso 2014 IndyCar Top 10: 1.) Will Power (He will finally win it in a narrow battle with Dixon that comes down to the last race) 2.) Scott Dixon 3.) Marco Andretti 4.) Ryan Hunter-Reay 5.) Simon Pagenaud 6.) Tony Kanaan 7.) Helio Castroneves 8.) James Hinchcliffe 9.) Carlos Munoz 10.) Juan Pablo Montoya Long Beach - Juan Pablo Montoya Indianapolis G.P. - Will Power Indianapolis 500 - Marco Andretti (The Andretti Curse will finally end, but I'd also love to see TK win it again) Pocono - Tony Kanaan Milwaukee - Ryan Hunter-Reay Fontana - Carlos Munoz 2014 Sprint Cup Top 12: 1.) Brad Keselowski (I can seriously see him coming back to the top next year despite a lackluster 2013) 2.) Kevin Harvick (He will have a good freshman year at SHR) 3.) Jimmie Johnson (He will win some races, but problems late in the season will affect championship hopes) 4.) Dale Earnhardt Jr. (Even though I'm a Jr. fan, I just don't see him winning the title, though he will win some races next year and have a good chase) 5.) Denny Hamlin (I can see him having a great 2014 fully recovered from injuries) 6.) Matt Kenseth (The second place curse will definitely affect him, though not as bad as some predict - see below) 7.) Carl Edwards (Will have an up-down season) 8.) Kyle Busch (He will most likely have a chase meltdown, though he will win some races) 9.) Jamie McMurray (His cars are finally showing speed, and I really think he will make the chase next year) 10.) Jeff Gordon (I'm sorry, but between luck and consistency he'd have a hard time contending for the title) 11.) Tony Stewart (He'll need a recovery year, though he will win one race - see below) 12.) Kasey Kahne (Will struggle mich like he did this year) Winners of the big races: Daytona 500 - Tony Stewart Southern 500 - Matt Kenseth Aaron's 499 - Dale Earnhardt Jr. Coca-Cola 600 - Matt Kenseth Brickyard 400 - Jimmie Johnson Any thoughts? 756. The Long Shot posted: 11.27.2013 - 9:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll take a stab at this, except I'll go even further and include Nationwide and Truck as well. F1 Top 10 (look for this to be EXTREMELY inaccurate): 1. Sebastian Vettel: 10 wins, 18 podiums 2. Fernando Alonso: 4 wins, 12 podiums 3. Lewis Hamilton: 2 wins, 9 podiums 4. Kimi Raikkonen: 1 win, 7 podiums 5. Romain Grosjean: 1 win, 5 podiums 6. Nico Rosberg: 1 win, 3 podiums 7. Felipe Massa: 0 wins, 5 podiums 8. Kevin Magnussen: 0 wins, 1 podium 9. Jenson Button: 1 win, 2 podiums 10. Paul di Resta: 0 wins, 0 podiums IndyCar Top 10: 1. Simon Pagenaud (acquires Ganassi #10 ride in offseason): 4 wins, 7 podiums 2. Ryan Hunter-Reay: 3 wins, 7 podiums 3. Scott Dixon: 3 wins, 6 podiums 4. Will Power: 2 wins, 4 podiums 5. Helio Castroneves: 1 win, 5 podiums 6. James Hinchcliffe: 1 win, 3 podiums 7. Marco Andretti: 1 win, 3 podiums 8. Carlos Munoz: 1 win, 2 podiums 9. Juan Pablo Montoya: 0 wins, 4 podiums 10. Charlie Kimball: 0 wins, 2 podiums Truck Top 10: 1. Jeb Burton (absolutely dominates the season): 6 wins, 17 top 10's 2. Johnny Sauter: 3 wins, 12 Top 10's 3. Matt Crafton: 1 win, 15 Top 10's 4. Ryan Blaney: 2 wins, 12 Top 10's 5. Timothy Peters: 1 win, 12 Top 10's 6. Darrell Wallace Jr.: 1 win, 11 Top 10's 7. Miguel Paludo: 1 win, 9 Top 10's 8. Joey Coulter: 0 wins, 10 Top 10's 9. Max Gresham: 1 win, 7 Top 10's 10. Ben Kennedy (runs full-time for Turner Motorsports): 0 wins, 7 Top 10's Nationwide Top 10: 1. Regan Smith: 3 wins, 23 Top 10's 2. Ty Dillon: 2 wins, 19 Top 10's 3. Trevor Bayne: 0 wins, 19 Top 10's 4. Elliott Sadler: 0 wins, 16 Top 10's 5. Brian Scott: 0 wins, 16 Top 10's 6. Alex Bowman (acquires the #12 ride from Penske): 0 wins, 13 Top 10's 7. Ryan Reed: 0 wins, 14 Top 10's 8. Brendan Gaughan: 0 wins, 16 Top 10's 9. Corey LaJoie: 0 wins, 12 Top 10's 10. Mike Bliss: 0 wins, 12 Top 10's Cup Top 12: 1. Matt Kenseth: 5 wins, 22 Top 10's 2. Jimmie Johnson: 7 wins, 25 Top 10's (crashes at Homestead while holding a 34 point lead) 3. Dale Earnhardt Jr.: 2 wins, 21 Top 10's 4. Brad Keselowski: 4 wins, 18 Top 10's 5. Kevin Harvick: 3 wins, 17 Top 10's 6. Clint Bowyer: 2 wins, 19 Top 10's 7. Kyle Busch: 5 wins, 16 Top 10's 8. Joey Logano: 2 wins, 16 Top 10's 9. Jamie McMurray: 2 wins, 18 Top 10's 10. Carl Edwards: 1 win, 15 Top 10's 11. Denny Hamlin: 3 wins, 14 Top 10's 12. Kyle Larson: 1 win, 17 Top 10's (Controversy arises at Phoenix as, after an on-track dispute with Hamlin, brash young rookie Larson rams Hamlin hard into the wall, where he proceeds to roll down the track and be met with an oncoming Carl Edwards. The resulting injuries end Hamlin's career, while Edwards suffers a concussion that keeps him out of Homestead the following week. Larson is suspended for the remainder of the season. Apologies: I have quite the imagination. :P) And by the way: 13. Jeff Gordon (misses the Chase by a hair) 15. Kasey Kahne (just not his year) 16. Tony Stewart (wins the Daytona 500, but isn't a factor after that) 18. Kurt Busch 21. Ryan Newman 27. Danica Patrick Well, I have a sense that these feelings are going to be controversial to say the least. Still, I'll ask: thoughts? 757. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.27.2013 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I decided to review my list of greatest driver of all time. As I have said before, I use a mathematical system to help me rate the drivers and after reviewing it I noticed two flaws. 1) In the system I used to rate drivers, you could actually have a pretty good year and still not have it mean anything if you didn't win a race. For example, it can almost universally be agreed upon that Dale Jr. had a better year than Jeff Gordon this year, but he would not have gained anything under my system. Jeff Gordon would have simply because of the win at Martinsville. I have changed that. 2) It came to my attention that drivers should be rewarded for keeping a high win percentage and penalized for failing to do so. As such, I made winning percentage part of my system. I have not finished tallying all of the results as of right now, but here are some things that have come out of it...David Pearson still rates behind Petty, Gordon, and Earnhardt in that order. The reason is that my system still (and perhaps even more so) penalizes a driver for not running the full season and David Pearson perhaps suffers the most because of this. However, it appears Jimmie Johnson will lose at least two spots on my list and fall out of the top 5, though he will almost certainly make it back in there before his career is over. 758. Sean posted: 11.27.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would like to commend NASCAR on buying Iowa. It is a great racetrack and I hope to see Cup races there replacing some of these boring cookie cutters." I, on the other hand, am worried. We saw how quickly NASCAR disposed of Rockingham and Nazareth after buying the tracks from Penske. I'm worried the primary purpose of this is to take Nationwide/truck dates away from Iowa and move them to struggling cookie cutters, although it seems like that era may have come and passed since the cookie cutters aren't selling nearly as well as they used to. I'm also worried the IndyCar race might be yanked when they already don't nearly have enough ovals because ISC aside from Fontana doesn't seem to be interested in promoting IndyCar races at all. Michigan and Phoenix have great history, but it isn't enough for them to return (I'd take Road America over either though...) "And yes, there are a ton of spectacular old races on YouTube. Just a wonderland." Yep, I've been watching all the split-era IndyCar races I missed, then I'll watch the pre-split ones, then I'll get to all the classic Cup races I never watched. Cup races are longer and there are more of them, but a smaller percentage have been archived, so I think it will probably take more time to watch those. It's funny how the most recent races are the ones that are most likely to be yanked, races that far fewer people would want to watch twice. David, I agree that the 2013 IndyCar finale at Fontana was an awesome race (almost as good as Indy) but I disagree with you about Allmendinger's season. Dinger was a huge disappointment considering he was in a Penske car. He ran well at Indy, yes, but so did almost every single driver with a Chevy engine. The rest of his season was fairly horrific, especially crashing out unassisted on the first lap in both Belle Isle races. Sure, that may be the worst street course in human history and all, but it still doesn't speak well for him. I mean it's not like a piece of the track destroyed his car like what happened to Hinchcliffe in 2012. He was in mid-pack in almost every road race he drove, and at Fontana, he started on the front row and faded to mid-pack when he crashed. He was only competitive at Indy, where the Chevies for the premier teams were all rockets (even Will Power checked out in the same equipment...and even Power bested Dinger on the ovals, considering he finally learned how to race an oval at Fontana making all sorts of nifty 3-wide passes while Dinger slowly faded before crashing mid-pack. Not impressed. He had a better average finish in Cup against much larger fields in much worse cars. That kind of says it all, and that's probably why he decided to stay in Cup. I realize the Indy 500 is usually considered more significant than the overall championship, but I don't have to agree with the rampant Indy-centrism that leads to Arie Luyendyk being inducted into the IMS Hall of Fame before Bobby Rahal and Michael Andretti (really?!), and Buddy Lazier, Eddie Cheever, and Buddy Rice having wins while Michael Andretti, Alex Zanardi, Paul Tracy (YMMV), and Sebastien Bourdais don't. By the way, I LIKED Lazier and Rice and thought they were both very underrated, but they still weren't as good as the premier CART drivers of their time. Yes, Scott Goodyear (the Michael Waltrip of IndyCar) made a CAREER out of ALMOST winning the Indy 500 three times and basically doing nothing else and then hypes himself in the booth as if he was one of the "legends", but his results, Eddie Cheever's, Marco Andretti's, Danica Patrick's, Vitor Meira's, etc... should be enough evidence to take Indy with a grain of salt. Results on the entire schedule matter more, and a good car (which Allmendinger definitely had) can carry you far. I wanted Dinger to have a good IndyCar season, but let's face it, he didn't. If he had actually WON at Indy, I might, MIGHT revise that, but his other races were just so awful, you know? SpeedWorld97, dream on about Vettel not remaining inevitable in Formula One. Not having Mark Webber in the other car should make ti even EASIER for him to dominate, and I don't think Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen will mesh well as teammates. I'd wait to post an IndyCar top ten until we know who Dario's replacement is (or who will be driving the 4th Ganassi car if Kanaan moves to the #10 to replace Dario himself). If Ganassi hires an experienced driver like Justin Wilson, Oriol Servia maybe even Josef Newgarden, I'd say that's an automatic top ten points finish... A more likely choice like Ryan Briscoe or Paul di Resta would probably be borderline, but we don't really know what Ganassi's going to do, and he has a history of surprises in both IndyCar and Cup, and I wouldn't bet on the #10 car finishing outside the top ten, unless Ganassi picks a REALLY disappointing choice like Alex Tagliani (who is sadly considered one of the favorites...) While I still don't think Charlie Kimball is one of the ten most talented drivers, considering he's still driving for Ganassi, I'd have a hard time leaving him out but still might do so. Sebastien Bourdais is an automatic top ten in even KV equipment since Kanaan just finished 11th and Bourdais is unquestionably better (he finished one position lower in points than Kanaan driving for the absolutely worst car in the series, so how won't he get a top ten for KV?) And I'd find it hard to leave Justin Wilson out in any season in any equipment. I know he just had his best season ever (even with no wins, lol) but I think Marco Andretti is still going to fall out as I think he basically just got lucky to be as consistent as he was on the road and street circuits, and when he has more average luck, he's going to get creamed when he pretty much only fights for the win on ovals and one road course a year... But yeah, I'm not making any IndyCar predictions until we know who is landing that very, very coveted ride. 759. Sean posted: 11.27.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Long Shot, very little seems "controversial" about your lists at all except your prediction that EGR are going to be weekly contenders (not seeing it) and your prediction that Simon Pagenaud will take over the Ganassi ride (Honda pays his salary, so I doubt he's even going to consider that unless Ganassi offers a TON more money, but he is PROBABLY the best driver not driving for Penske, Ganassi, or Andretti...I'm still not sure I think he's any better than Sebastien Bourdais and Justin Wilson at all, they've just had much worse cars...) If Ganassi had stayed with Honda Pagenaud would be likely, but now that Ganassi has switched to Chevy for 2014, that seems unbelievably remote to me. I'm rooting for Justin Wilson but I don't think that'll happen either. Anybody but Ryan Briscoe and Alex Tagliani though. Those two have had way too many chances in good equipment and done too little with them. 760. Sean posted: 11.27.2013 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, Allmendinger's IndyCar average finish was 19.2 in IndyCar and 21.2 in Cup, so his IndyCar average finish ended up being better (earlier in the season, I definitely remember his Cup average finish was better). But given the size of the respective fields, and what Allmendinger was driving (one of the three premier teams in IndyCar, and far below average equipment in Cup), his Cup accomplishments were much more impressive. 761. murb posted: 11.27.2013 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, since everyone else is doing their predictions, as promised, here are my 2014 Cup Series Team By Team Predictions. Basically, for each driver/team, I'm just gonna put how I think their season will go. #1 Jamie McMurray: Believe it or not, I think they'll be bolstered a little bit by Larson's arrival. 13th-17th in points, possibly with a plate win. #2 Brad Keselowski: Will be REALLY pissed off about both Jimmie winning and himself missing the Chase. I think he's gonna come out with a huge chip on his shoulder. He's my championship pick. #3 Austin Dillon: Up and down rookie year, has a fun battle with Larson over ROTY. 15th-20th in points. #4 Kevin Harvick: Flag carrier for SHR. Probably two or three wins, 6th-10th in points. #5 Kasey Kahne: Honestly, I have him missing the Chase. I think the late season mediocrity from this year will carry over. #7 Michael Annett: Might have a couple of bright spots like TBR has had in the past, but overall will be bringing up the rear in the ROTY race. #9 Marcos Ambrose: Typical Ambrose year. Maybe a road course win, 16th-23rd in points. #10 Danica Patrick: Improves from being a 27th place driver to a 25th place driver. #11 Denny Hamlin: I think he'll be back after an off season of healing. And he has momentum from the Homestead win. Multiple wins, top five in points. #13 Casey Mears: Might improve a tad with the RCR affiliation, but overall, 21st-27th in points. #14 Tony Stewart: I have no idea how he'll be after the leg injury. I'll pass on this one. #15 Clint Bowyer: MWR struggles after the Richmond debacle and the downsize. Misses the Chase, but maybe gets a fuel win. #16 Greg Biffle: I don't see him making the Chase. And I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him take the Kenseth approach and leave Roush at the end of the year, since his contract is up. #17 Ricky Stenhouse Jr: He'll be reunited with Mike Kelley, so I think he's in for a breakout year. Gets his first win, gets into the Chase and finishes 10th-12th in final standings. #18 Kyle Busch: Pretty much the same as this year, with at least four wins. Championship contention will depend on a lot of different things (mainly TuRD and whether or not Kyle can have a smooth Chase). #20 Matt Kenseth: 2nd place hangover. 10th-12th in final points. #22 Joey Logano: Continues to serve me huge amounts of crow. Not quite ready for title contention, but I think he can have an even better year than this year with multiple wins and maybe a two or three spot improvement in points. #24 Jeff Gordon: I think he'll make the Chase, but he'll probably be taken out of title contention because that 2008-present Jeff Gordon Wile E. Coyote luck is bound to strike him down again, isn't it? #27 Paul Menard: Typical Menard year. 15th-22nd in points. #30: If the driver is Kligerman, top 25 in points. I think he could do it, seeing how he ran in that car towards the end of the year. #31 Ryan Newman: He'll be within earshot of the Chase because of consistency, but I don't think he'll make it because he won't win enough. #34 David Ragan: Hopefully another upset Talladega win. #38 David Gilliland: Same as Ragan. #41 Kurt Busch: I don't think he'll be as good as Harvick. He has a crew chief that has never been a crew chief before, so that would concern me if I was a fan of his. Might get a win at some point, but I don't see him making the Chase. #42 Kyle Larson: Like Dillon, an up and down rookie year. 16th-23rd in points. #43 Aric Almirola: Unfortunately, I just don't see RPM making the jump to being second tier. 16th-24th in points. #47 AJ Allmendinger: Same as what I said about Casey Mears, except I think he'll be a little better than Mears. #48 Jimmie Johnson: Top five in points again. #51 Justin Allgaier: Up and down like Dillon and Larson, but won't be as good as them because his equipment isn't as good. #55 Brian Vickers: See Bowyer. #78 Martin Truex Jr.: I think they'll actually be pretty good. Win at one of Martin's strong tracks, and Wild Card contention. #83/#93: "This caution flag is brought to you by the Double Flamebroiled Whopper, available at Burger King." #88 Dale Earnhardt Jr: Top five in points again. #99 Carl Edwards: Top five in points, but I don't think he'll win enough to be a really serious title contender. 762. murb posted: 11.27.2013 - 11:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And while I'm at it... 2014 IndyCar Champion: Will Power (He proved at Fontana that he can legitimately win on an oval, so I think he'll combine that with his road course dominance.) 2014 F1 Champion: Sebastian Vettel (I don't know how you can pick anyone else.) 2014 NNS Champion: Regan Smith (Is there anyone else? Ty Dillon is really the only other real option, and he'll be a rookie. Other than those two, you have Trevor Bayne with health problems, Brian Scott who is improving but isn't championship caliber, Elliott Sadler who is in JGR's worst car, and Sam Hornish who doesn't have a ride. So yeah, I'm going with Regan basically because he's the only guy who can actually do it, unless Ty wins it as a rookie.) 2014 Truck Series Champion: Johnny Sauter (He's bound to get one at some point.) 763. joey2448 posted: 11.27.2013 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "2014 IndyCar Top 10: 1.) Will Power (He will finally win it in a narrow battle with Dixon that comes down to the last race) 2.) Scott Dixon...." The only thing I would disagree with on your prediction here, SpeedWorld97, is that if Will Power does win the title eventually, I think it'll be by a large margin. Will Power seems to be the kind of driver that cracks under pressure. Most of his career wins have come in races he has dominated start to finish, and so I think he'll cruise to the title eventually, instead of edging out a competitor. Also, interesting prediction about Vettel struggling in 2014. Not saying it won't happen, but I think as long as Vettel, Adrian Newey and Christian Horner are partnered at Red Bull, they'll be the top team in F1 for a while... 764. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.28.2013 - 12:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "SpeedWorld97, dream on about Vettel not remaining inevitable in Formula One. Not having Mark Webber in the other car should make ti even EASIER for him to dominate, and I don't think Fernando Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen will mesh well as teammates." There are a few reasons why Sebastian Vettel won't win the title next year: 1.) Like I said already, adjusting to the turbocharged V6s could affect the Red Bull team negatively. It seems like most other teams gave up midway through 2013 to prepare for next year's car while Vettel and RBR cruised to win after win. Red Bull could be behind in development. 2.) Having a much less experienced driver for a teammate could negatively affect his performance. It always seemed like Vettel felt so accomplished when beating Webber because he knew beating Webber was a true accomplishment; he knew Webber would not back down to him, so beating him was quite an accomplishment. 3.) The Ferrari drivers (Alonso and Raikkonen) are some of the best in F1 right now, and I could see them really racing hard with one another to outdo each other. Doing so would mean trying to win as much as possible, which would be taking away opportunities for Vettel to win. Plus, it seemed like at most times having Massa as a teammate was a negative thing for Alonso, as he had firmly established himself as the no. 1 driver at Ferrari and did not have a teammate to really try and outrace. Vettel had that in Webber. 4.) Vettel has never been able to put together two dominant seasons in a row. 2010 was him coming from a points defecit to win in the last race of the season in Abu Dhabi (not dominant). 2011 was a dominant year all throughout. 2012 was him making a rebound from a tough first half of the year to win by 3 points (not dominant). 2013 was his most dominant year. But, of course, the odds are in favor of Vettel winning a fifth title, though there's that possibility that he won't. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. 765. 12345Dude posted: 11.28.2013 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF how could you have confidence in brian france? This is part of the Jayski article about Iowa The Speedway released its 2014 schedule earlier this month, encompassing three weekends, one each in May, July and August. The schedule will include two NASCAR Nationwide Series races, a combination NASCAR Camping World Truck Series and IndyCar Series weekend, plus two additional NASCAR K&N Pro Series support races. NASCAR has no plans for Iowa Speedway to host a NASCAR Sprint Cup Series race next year or in the immediate future. NASCAR will host a special event in Des Moines on Thursday, Dec. 12, to outline additional details on the purchase and plans for the future. Information on this event will be announced soon.(NASCAR)( Sean it looks like it will run trucks and nationwide still. I'm just so sick of this crap. If the truck of tomorrow ruins the truck series I'm going to be beyond pissed. How can anyone with a brain think cookie cutters>Iowa? Plus it's so nice to see such guaranteed sell outs. 766. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 11.28.2013 - 6:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hi guys since you are talking about nascar on youtube is there anywhere you can watch the 2013 races in full or has nascar started blocking them thanks. 767. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 11.28.2013 - 7:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talladega will take down the small backstretch grandstand as Daytona plans to do likewise in the coming years. Talladega like michigan is almost half the size it once was in terms of spectator attendance 768. David posted: 11.28.2013 - 8:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I disagree with you about Allmendinger's season. Dinger was a huge disappointment considering he was in a Penske car. He ran well at Indy, yes, but so did almost every single driver with a Chevy engine. The rest of his season was fairly horrific, especially crashing out unassisted on the first lap in both Belle Isle races. Sure, that may be the worst street course in human history and all, but it still doesn't speak well for him. I mean it's not like a piece of the track destroyed his car like what happened to Hinchcliffe in 2012. He was in mid-pack in almost every road race he drove, and at Fontana, he started on the front row and faded to mid-pack when he crashed. He was only competitive at Indy, where the Chevies for the premier teams were all rockets (even Will Power checked out in the same equipment...and even Power bested Dinger on the ovals, considering he finally learned how to race an oval at Fontana making all sorts of nifty 3-wide passes while Dinger slowly faded before crashing mid-pack. Not impressed. He had a better average finish in Cup against much larger fields in much worse cars. That kind of says it all, and that's probably why he decided to stay in Cup." Bah. Well, that just goes to show that I am NOT as knowledgeable about IndyCar as I think I am. "Apologies: I have quite the imagination." I noticed. I do too, so don't worry. "#1 Jamie McMurray: Believe it or not, I think they'll be bolstered a little bit by Larson's arrival. 13th-17th in points, possibly with a plate win." In case you missed it, that's precisely what happened this year. ;) "I would like to commend NASCAR on buying Iowa. It is a great racetrack and I hope to see Cup races there replacing some of these boring cookie cutters." That's all well and good, but if the Cup Series gets a date at Iowa, won't it just mean more Cup claim jumpers in the lower-tier series on race weekend? You can bet NASCAR would schedule it as a tripleheader. At what track would said lower-tier series be able to showcase their talent? Just something to think about, that's all. 769. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.28.2013 - 9:11 am Rate this comment: (3) (1) Happy Thanksgiving to all here at RR! Enjoy your turkey and, if you're a fan, the football games! 770. We need more Onion posted: 11.28.2013 - 9:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too bad that I can't get in the conversation properly thanks to the time zones, but I'll try to predict the IndyCar season. F1 is too risky with the totally new engine package. Scott Dixon: Will do well, but unspectacular. A win or two, will always be in title contention, but imo won't be defending his crown. 1st-6th Helio Castroneves: As always, serious contender, I expect him winning more races than in 2013, anything can still happen... unless JPM decides he deserves all the attention. 1st-5th Simon Pagenaud: The dark horse for the last 2 years elevates himself to the next level and fights for the championship with consistency and solid finishes. 1st-4th Will Power: Unless he manages to fend off both his teammates he'll have a lackluster season, will win races though. 5th-8th Marco Andretti: Continues his winless streak and falls back a bit. 7th-10th Justin Wilson: Will do more than possible with the DCR machines, winless but lurks around the top of the table all year. 3rd-6th Ryan Hunter-Reay: After having an off-year, RHR will be back on the top... or near it. 1st-3rd James Hinchcliffe: I want to be wrong on this one, but I doubt he gets enough attention from the team. Will win a race or two, but no significant improvement. 5th-10th Charlie Kimball: Continues to improve his skills, won't win but will have more than 3 podiums. 6th-9th Tony Kanaan: Gets a Ganassi ride, but he is declining, no wins, few podiums. OR Manages to do amazingly in competitive equipment and contends for the title. 3rd-15th Sebastien Bourdais: Revamps himself as a top competitor, but not quite in the best car... yet. 5th-6th Simona de Silvestro: Still not a good oval driver, will be in contention for the top 10 overall. 10th-15th Josef Newgarden: Gets his first win and shows the big boys what he can do. Manages to earn a better ride for 2015. 7th-10th Ed Carpenter: Ed Carpenter... (and Conway is also totally random, the two sharing a car is interesting, least to say.) Takuma Sato: If his contract gets renewed... nothing will change, he'll wreck and blow engines on odd weekends, will contend for top 5s on the even ones. 10th-13th Graham Rahal: Improves a bit, but eventually reaches his limits. 13th-16th James Jakes: Won't do much, maybe a top 5. I want to see him do well, but he is Mr. Mediocrity. (IF he gets a seat of course.) 15th-20th Sebastian Saavedra and Tristan Vautier: Not coming back for 2014, too bad, they (Mostly Tristan) deserve another chance. Mikhail Aleshin: Mike Moneybags will have one or two really good race(s), but will be at the very back on ovals. 15th-20th Carlos Munoz: Wrecks and podiums, not the best on road courses yet, but ovals and street circuits will produce good results. 10th-13th Luca Filippi(?): Bad car, great driver. Won't be in the top 15 on ovals, but will get good results on street circuits. 13th-17th JP Montoya: Wins a race resulting his ego to grow unstable and collapse into itself resulting in a black hole. 5th-12th Coyne #22: Now without Conway, that team will have pay drivers and problems with getting top 10s. Panther #4 In case of Servia: Consistent showings, but mediocre results. One wonder-weekend though 12th-15th Panther #4 In case of Briscoe: Way too many wrecks to be in contention for anything else than a tope 20 at the end of the season. 18th-20th Panther's 2nd car: Please let this one be a joke, Dragon Racing much? One okay car and wants to have a second without being competitive with the 1st. I can be absolutely wrong though. 21st-22nd Ganassi #10: Depends a lot on the driver. Anywhere from 3rd to 13th. But please NO Di Resta. 771. We need more Onion posted: 11.28.2013 - 9:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eh, the "Coyne #22" is the #19 of course. 772. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.28.2013 - 12:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) "I, on the other hand, am worried. We saw how quickly NASCAR disposed of Rockingham and Nazareth after buying the tracks from Penske." NASCAR did let Nazareth die but fans let Rockingham die. Why? Because fans didn't show up. NASCAR isn't going back (like they left the first time) because fans don't care. You say your care about Rockingham, yet you don't show up for it. Please make up your mind. "Talladega will take down the small backstretch grandstand as Daytona plans to do likewise in the coming years. Talladega like michigan is almost half the size it once was in terms of spectator attendance" I'm suprised they didn't do it sooner. The backstraight seats at Dega you can always see empty seats even back the early 2000's. Daytona should have done it after 2010 (last time those seats were full is 2007. I was there for 2004 and 2005 it was packed.) Here is what i'm thankful for: Thankful that NASCAR is still and will be here for years too come (reguardless of what doom and gloomers say) Thankful too have guys like Tony, Jeff (Gordon) and Jimmie too watch. Their is time is limited, so i'm thankful too watch them everytime they race. 773. Sean posted: 11.28.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) SpeedWorld, you have a good point about the Formula One teams besides Red Bull giving up on 2013 to focus on the new turbocharged package, but I don't agree with you that Daniel Ricciardo replacing Mark Webber will hurt Vettel. Ricciardo probably won't be as fast as Webber, so Vettel will pretty much be even MORE unopposed within his own team than he was in previous years. Considering how immature Fernando Alonso was when he and Lewis Hamilton were teammates at McLaren in 2007 (their feud perhaps kept either of them from winning the title), I can't see Alonso and Raikkonen at Ferrari getting along very well. I don't think Vettel will be AS dominant but I still can't see him losing, unless the Ferraris are actually superior next year, and I can't really see that. "Helio Castroneves: As always, serious contender, I expect him winning more races than in 2013, anything can still happen... unless JPM decides he deserves all the attention. 1st-5th" Nah, he's on the back side of his career and is nowhere near as fast as he used to be (like during the second half of the split from 2002-2007). He was EXTREMELY LUCKY to finish 2nd last year, and has been more like a 6th-10th place driver in general the past few years. "Will Power: Unless he manages to fend off both his teammates he'll have a lackluster season, will win races though. 5th-8th" And you really think that won't happen? He's faster than Helio on every road course, he's now caught him on the ovals, and he can't possibly have the absurdly comical level of bad luck he had last year (J.R. Hildebrand driving over his car under caution? Tristan Vautier wrecking him in the pits? Driving up from 22nd to 11th in 11 laps and then blowing an engine? Etc... etc...) Montoya really seems to have lost his edge, his speed, his passion. While I think he'll win (and ALSO finish 6th-10th in points), he's pretty old for a modern-day IndyCar driver, and I think about 6th place is the limit for him, Castroneves, AND Kanaan. Power will certainly be Penske's championship threat. "Justin Wilson: Will do more than possible with the DCR machines, winless but lurks around the top of the table all year. 3rd-6th" I think he's one of the top five drivers in the series, and what he has done with the lousy equipment he's had has been downright AMAZING, but I think his injury at Fontana may affect his 2014 somewhat, and I also think losing his great engineer Bill Pappas to Graham Rahal's team will cause him to take a step back, unless Ganassi chooses him to replace Dario in the #10 (which is my hope), then he might win the championship. 7th-10th if still driving for Coyne. "Tony Kanaan: Gets a Ganassi ride, but he is declining, no wins, few podiums. OR Manages to do amazingly in competitive equipment and contends for the title. 3rd-15th" How could he possibly finish 15th for Ganassi when he was 11th for the greatly inferior KV last year? I definitely don't think he's as fast as he was (especially on the road courses) but he'll still be in the top ten. Near the back though. "Josef Newgarden: Gets his first win and shows the big boys what he can do. Manages to earn a better ride for 2015. 7th-10th" I'm a big fan and think he's hugely underrated, but there is no way he (or probably anyone) could put the unsponsored Sarah Fisher (also a big fan) car into the top ten in points. Give him the Ganassi #10 car, and that might be a reasonable estimate. "Mikhail Aleshin: Mike Moneybags will have one or two really good race(s), but will be at the very back on ovals. 15th-20th" Oh, come on. He won the Formula Renault 3.5 championship, which is one of the most important F1 feeder series and you know that. That's certainly enough to qualify him for IndyCar. I realize his other seasons in that series were kind of lackluster though. He is a ride-buyer, and your estimated points position is probably correct, but CART and IRL have both seen much, much, much, MUCH worse ride-buyers... I think he should be good enough to be towards the top end of ride-buyers (Paul Menard, Memo Rojas, etc...) and won't be nearly as bad as the likes of Dr. Jack Miller, Shigeaki Hattori, and Milka Duno... He also has fairly legendary engineer Allan McDonald helping him out, and all he needs to do is provide enough money to properly fund the engineering of Simon Pagenaud's car as well as his own and beat Tristan Vautier's results in the same car which he really should be able to do. Vautier's season was awful. "Luca Filippi(?): Bad car, great driver. Won't be in the top 15 on ovals, but will get good results on street circuits. 13th-17th" I don't think it's a bad car. Dan Wheldon won Indy driving for Bryan Herta in 2011 (yes, with the old car), Tagliani looked strong for most of 2012, but looked really crappy in 2013, and Filippi and Hildebrand both looked strong late in the season. 11th-15th and might sneak ROTY away from Carlos Munoz late in the year. If it's between Filippi and Hildebrand, Filippi better get the ride. "Coyne #19: Now without Conway, that team will have pay drivers and problems with getting top 10s." I'm guessing that's where Simona de Silvestro will go, and she'll have pretty much the same kind of season she did last year. Considering she's apparently leaving KV, I don't see where else she would go than the 2nd Coyne car, and she does bring money to fund it, and Justin Wilson would provide the same sort of veteran leadership that Tony Kanaan did for her last year. "Panther #4 In case of Servia: Consistent showings, but mediocre results. One wonder-weekend though 12th-15th Panther #4 In case of Briscoe: Way too many wrecks to be in contention for anything else than a tope 20 at the end of the season. 18th-20th" Yes, Servia is much, much, MUCH better than Briscoe, and I don't understand why Panther seemed to INFINITELY prefer Briscoe. However, they may have just lost the National Guard sponsorship to the Rahal team which would render them probably unable to keep Briscoe, in which case he might land the Ganassi #10 car, and that would be so disappointing on so many levels. If they do lose that sponsorship, they might need to pick up somebody with money (like Simona de Silvestro) and I wouldn't wish that team on anyone. I still want Sage Karam to have a ride too, but it looks like the 2nd KV car is his only option. He'll be able to find something since he won $1,000,000 to help buy a ride with his Indy Lights championship (love, love, love that idea and NASCAR needs something like that for its Nationwide champions), but it might not be full-time. It would be awesome to see half of the drivers in that four-wide Indy Lights photo finish represented full-time in IndyCar next year, and he did BEAT Munoz in the championship, who already has a ride. Overall I like your projections but I think you whiffed it pretty big on Power. I will be FLABBERGASTED if he runs all the races (isn't injured or something) and finishes as low as 5th (which you put as his peak). Oh, and happy Thanksgiving... 774. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.28.2013 - 1:54 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "You say your care about Rockingham, yet you don't show up for it. Please make up your mind." Go to YouTube and look at the stands for that last race. Then compare it to the stands for pretty much every race the last few years. So why aren't those other tracks being taken off the schedule? And why does Kansas with its empty seats get a better date to help? Remember, Rockingham was run in February and November. And it is a very sparsely populated area to begin with. Why do these "big market" tracks get chances and changes while Southern classics like Rockingham and Darlington lose dates? I know you enjoy pissing on the fans SmokeFan, but you know good and well attendance does not drive these decisions. 775. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.28.2013 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) OK 2014 Predictions (I'll do Top 20): 1) Kurt Busch-hey, someone has to make that one bold prediction that turns out to be true, don't they? I honestly think the Stewart-Haas cars will suit him well. (3-6 wins) 2) Dale Earnhardt Jr.-it's hard to ignore how great he and the 88 team looked last year. Plus, I think Jr. wants it more than anyone out there at this point. (3-5 wins) 3) Jimmie Johnson-No way he finishes below 3rd. He's just damn good. (4-7 wins) 4) Matt Kenseth-I don't believe in the second place curse, but I don't think he'll be as good next year. (3-6 wins). 5) Brad Keselowski-bounces back into the top 5 after down year. (3-4 wins) 6) Clint Bowyer-I think he'll put the Richmond thing behind him next year to have a decent year and, honestly folks, it's time to forgive and move on. (0-2 wins) 7) Carl Edwards-starts of strong, but finishes only good. (1-3 wins) 8) Kevin Harvick-I don't think Harvick will struggle, per se, but I don't see him as top 5 next year. (1-4 wins). 9) Jeff Gordon-he isn't the Jeff Gordon of yesteryear, but he'll still finish top 10 in points. (0-1 win). 10) Tony Stewart-rebound year. Not good, not great. (1-2 wins) 11) Joey Logano-still decent, not great. (0-2 wins) 12) Ricky Stenhouse Jr.-breakout year before he becomes regular contender. (1-3 wins) 13) Kyle Busch-I don't think he's terrible, but I just don't see him having good years in back to back seasons. (3-5 wins) 14) Austin Dillon-ROTY. Should get a win. Maybe not. (0-2 wins) 15) Jamie McMurray-decent, but still not a Chaser. (0-1 win). 16) Greg Biffle-really struggles. (0 wins). 17) Paul Menard-this just seems to be where he always finishes. (0 wins) 18) Ryan Newman-I just think he's on the downswing, even with Childress. (0 wins) 19) Kyle Larson-decent, but won't win. (0 wins) 20) Aric Almirola-could be better (0 wins) 21) AJ Allmendinger-pretty decent run as team grows (0-1 win) 22) Marcos Ambrose-he's not really meant to be a championship contender anyway (0-1 win) 23) Martin Truex Jr.-team won't be as good without Kurt Busch. (0 wins). 24) Danica Patrick-Yeah, I think she'll improve. (0 wins). 25) Kasey Kahne-bold prediction 2. He has a Dale Jr. 2009-2010 like year. (0 wins) 2014 Nationwide-Regan Smith because only he and Ty will be true contenders and Ty just won't be able to hang with a veteran. 2014 Trucks-Ryan Blaney if he's running the entire schedule. If not, Matt Crafton repeats. 2014 IndyCar-Will Power. Don't know much about it, but I always like him. 2014 F1-Sebastian Vettel. Don't know much about it, but I hear it's hard to bet against him. 2014 Super Bowl-Saints vs. Broncos. Saints win. 2014 NCAA National Championship Game-Auburn vs. Florida State. Auburn wins. Auburn advances after defeating Alabama in the Iron Bowl and Missouri in the SEC Championship Game. Ohio State fans are pissed they got overlooked, even though deep down inside they know Alabama, Auburn, and Missouri would crush them if they actually had to play them and are therefore not as deserving. 776. We need more Onion posted: 11.28.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So, Sean you say that the predictions for Power and Castroneves are reversed? This is pretty much possible, but I still see the fire in Helio. However I stand by my Newgarden prediction, I (want to) believe that he gets a win in 2014, just a race like Baltimore '13 is needed, haha. The Kanaan "prediction" in other words -> I have no idea where and what will he do. He is definitely declining, but a Ganassi car is a Ganassi car. aand Aleshin... you can see that I am biased against him, tbh I have no problems with normal pay-drivers (actually, I liked Jack Miller), as they are an integral part of motor racing, but he is a state-funded pay driver. That is what kept him in racing after Red Bull dropped him. And he lost a lot of his speed since 2010. 777. Sean posted: 11.28.2013 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The last two seasons Castroneves has had minimal bad luck while Power has had tons. Power is much faster on a weekly basis but tends to have much more bad luck (he also brings some of it on himself because he drives more aggressively and at this point does more stupid things, but his team also seems to get burnt on pit strategy much more often as well). I think if both of them just have average luck in a season, Power would crush Castroneves. In fact, I don't ever see Helio beating Will in the points standings again, and think 2012 was Helio's last chance for a title (in which he turned 6th-place performance into dominating the points standings because everybody else who was more dominant was much more inconsistent...) I don't think Kanaan will sniff a title, but I can't believe he'd possibly do worse for Ganassi than for KV... To be honest, I don't really see a big difference between a car funded by the Russian government and a car sponsored by the U.S. National Guard except that IndyCar is a US-based series... We've already had E.J. Viso pretty much funded by the Venezuelan government for years, and Russia MUST be more of an ally to the US than Venezuela was, at least after the USSR broke up, right? And again, Aleshin has won something more significant than Viso has, and something more significant than even Graham Rahal has (and Rahal seems to be about to land the National Guard sponsorship...) IndyCar has seen much worse than him. He'll still be one of the lowest-finishing full-timers though. Jack Miller certainly provided great comic value in the IRL (pushing the kill switch on his car and then complaining on his radio about electrical problems! driving into the pits to let the leaders pass him!), but he had NO BUSINESS in any kind of professional racing series, and his being there (along with MANY similar no-talents) is one of the reasons that the few professional drivers in the early IRL (Tony Stewart, Scott Sharp, Kenny Brack, Arie Luyendyk, Buddy Lazier, Eddie Cheever, Scott Goodyear, Greg Ray, Mark Dismore, Jeff Ward, and that's about it, and in some of those cases I'm probably being generous!) didn't get as much respect as maybe they should have. 778. Sean posted: 11.28.2013 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "and think 2012 was Helio's last chance for a title" Obviously I meant to say 2013 there. 779. We need more Onion posted: 11.28.2013 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Aleshin won a title in a major F1 feeder series, right and with this he has more than EJ, but I have to remark on how mediocre the WSR competition in 2010 was, Aleshin's only real opponent was Ricciardo, (who I also see as a massively overrated driver) who was a rookie in a mid-field team opposed to Mikhail's 3 years in the series and top-tier team. He still has the positive trait that he is not Daniil Move. On the question of the National Guard sponsorship, it is American, promotes a cause you can support and PDVSA/CITGO are involved in the American economy, but how many branches of SMP Bank have you seen there? And a big jump here; Upon watching the earliest IRL races it is astonishing how many of those guys had no business anyway near those cars (well Tyce Carlson, who was my favorite back then, looked suitable for the job of a gasman though). As a side note it is refreshing to debate (or something like that) with someone who is knowledgeable and respects other commenters. This is something I don't find on most other forums. (Yep, this is a compliment to most r-r commenters) 780. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.28.2013 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of Vettel, I recently posted this question on his driver page since I know nothing about F1: "Just so I know, what is Sebastian like? Should I be rooting for him to surpass Schumi's 5 straight titles and 7 overall, as well as his win total? If he surpasses him, should we celebrate?" 781. We need more Onion posted: 11.28.2013 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just so I know, what is Sebastian like? Should I be rooting for him to surpass Schumi's 5 straight titles and 7 overall, as well as his win total? If he surpasses him, should we celebrate?" He is a really nice guy out of the car, well-liked and genuine personality in the paddock. Ask any of his haters, probably the only problem they can tell you is that his wins are boring/he wins too often. On the downside, he can get quite bitchy if he is not treated as absolute #1 at his team. I would celebrate if he surpasses Schumi, who was a much dirtier driver and the #1 driver thingy applies to him as well. 782. Sean posted: 11.28.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least Vettel hasn't intentionally wrecked his championship opposition in the final race TWICE like Schumacher did. On the flip side, Vettel has always struck me as a Jimmie Johnson-style boring invincible juggernaut, although a bit less condescending to the fans than Johnson is. 783. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.28.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "At least Vettel hasn't intentionally wrecked his championship opposition in the final race TWICE like Schumacher did." Or try to manipulate the outcome of qualifying sessions like Schumacher. At Monaco in 2006, Schumacher intentionally parked his Ferrari near the pit entry to cause a caution and prevent championship rival Fernando Alonso from taking the pole position from him. Needless to say, the FIA demoted him to the back of the grid that weekend. I will always respect Michael Schumacher for the accomplishments he had, but definitely not for the way he raced. 784. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.28.2013 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So if Vettel pulls it out again next year, then again in '15, breaking Schumi's consecutive championship streak, we shall take a moment to celebrate. And what is it with guys named Sebastian and championship streaks? Sebastian Loeb had his insane Rally Car streak of 9 in a row, which would have been more had he not retired from full time competition. And now Vettal is tied for 2nd longest streak in F1, with the chance to tie #1 this upcoming year. Brad should have legally changed his name to "Sebastian Keselowski" after the end of last year. He already has a weird last name, and he doesn't sign autographs anyways, so it wouldn't affect that. He could have prevented another 48 title had he done that. 785. Sean posted: 11.28.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Not to mention Sebastien Bourdais winning the final 4 Champ Car titles after CART's bankruptcy before Champ Car and IRL/IndyCar merged in 2008... Vettel and Bourdais were even teammates for Red Bull's junior team Scuderia Toro Rosso where Vettel destroyed Bourdais. Vettel replaced Scott Speed in the middle of the 2007 season. I'd say they made the right choice considering Speed never scored a single point in F1... 786. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.28.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You see, that's the issue with people like Ricciardo (and for David Hobbs and co, I am Italian and it is said "Ree-chee-ahr-doh". Drivers tend to get overhyped if they are from a particular country. Example, Jake Rosenzweig, who got hyped as all else coming into GP2 because he's an American. Didn't go so well. It's a fact though. There are the Ernesto Viso's of the world, there are the Sergio Perez's, and there are the Milka Duno's. People also get talent and intellect confused. Alain Prost wasn't the most talented driver any of the years he ran, but he most certainly earned the nickname "Professor." 787. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.28.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How could I forget about Bordais? 788. jabber1990 posted: 11.28.2013 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sebastian Keselowski what an awesome name! although in his defense Keselowski is a cool name, too bad nobody can spell Polish names 789. Sean posted: 11.28.2013 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF, you forgot Bourdais because CCWS didn't get anywhere near as much media attention as CART did, and because the IRL probably had more of the major talents from 2003-07. Having said that, the new drivers arriving in CART/Champ Car in that period (Sebastien Bourdais, Ryan Hunter-Reay, A.J. Allmendinger, Justin Wilson, Will Power, Simon Pagenaud) were the major talents while the only major talent to emerge in the IRL was Dan Wheldon... But in that period the IRL got much more press, and for the most part especially after RPM2Night ended, ESPN ignored both sides of the split and was beginning to ignore NASCAR too. And NRF, you are so right about drivers from certain countries being hyped. Robin Miller and Ed Hinton are legendary reporters and have written many great articles (and also many totally biased, crappy ones) over the years but I want to vomit every time both of them try to hype up Danica Patrick, Marco Andretti, and Graham Rahal as being MUCH greater talents than they really are (they're all basically mediocrities, although Marco seems to be BEGINNING to escape that) because "IndyCar needs an American star to regain mainstream prominence", while not giving enough attention to the American drivers without famous pedigrees who are actually achieving stuff - Ryan Hunter-Reay, Buddy Rice, and A.J. Allmendinger didn't get nearly enough hype from them when they broke through. Now of course Rice has just disappeared from IndyCar which kind of puzzles me and Allmendinger was disappointing last year except for Indy (and upon his return after his NASCAR experience, he was overhyped in a way he never was when he was in Champ Car...) I guess Hinton lost it when he started writing column after column blasting Dale Earnhardt and making Jeff Gordon sound like the best. person. ever. Scott Speed was simply a product of Red Bull's attempt to get an American driver into Formula One at all costs, but a few days ago, I read a very fascinating article indicating that Red Bull's American driver shootout was laughably biased and very poorly managed. Ryan Hunter-Reay and A.J. Allmendinger were considered the best two prospects even then but dropped out because Red Bull forced them to sign an extremely one-sided contract. Rocky Moran, Jr., Joey Hand, and Phil Giebler were considered the fastest drivers besides RHR and Dinger but ended up not being selected by Red Bull because they didn't overachieve as much as they were "supposed to" over less experienced drivers... It was incredibly bogus, and to think that Scott Speed became a household name over greatly superior drivers because of such an unfair competition is galling. Speed has failed at everything (F1, DNQed in the Indy 500, then at Cup) while Hunter-Reay, Allmendinger, and Hand have become the biggest successes overall, just as was expected ten years ago. I wonder how much better those three REAL top prospects would have done in Speed's Formula One ride... Search for The Legacy of the Red Bull Driver Search if you want to read the article. Best article I've read since that Dick Trickle article from a few months ago... I was honestly appalled when learning about the way Scott Speed was promoted over grossly superior candidates. 790. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.28.2013 - 7:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just so I know, what is Sebastian like? Should I be rooting for him to surpass Schumi's 5 straight titles and 7 overall, as well as his win total? If he surpasses him, should we celebrate?" A really nice kid DSFF. A hell of a lot better then Schumacher (or as i like too call him MUD). He got penalized by the FIA for doing donuts after he won India too clinch the title (yeah and NASCAR is bad... right). They didn't take the win away from him but they penalized him somehow. Other then that pretty much We Need More Onion said. "Or try to manipulate the outcome of qualifying sessions like Schumacher. At Monaco in 2006, Schumacher intentionally parked his Ferrari near the pit entry to cause a caution and prevent championship rival Fernando Alonso from taking the pole position from him. Needless to say, the FIA demoted him to the back of the grid that weekend. I will always respect Michael Schumacher for the accomplishments he had, but definitely not for the way he raced." Pretty much this and what about blocking? F1 kinda has a blocking rule, what i mean by that is that applies too everyone else but Schumacher. The FIA hardly ever called a "blocking penalty" on Schumacher. Schumacher and Prost too me are similar, they are respected but hated (Schumacher for on-track, Prost for off-track). Also Schumacher had everything from 1997 "erased" by the FIA for wrecking JV at Jerez, although Schumacher toke himself out. 791. Sean posted: 11.28.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And since it's Thanksgiving, I'll link the most famous episode of my favorite TV sitcom "WKRP in Cincinnati" for those who are unfamiliar with the show: http://zvbxrpl.blogspot.com/2008/10/wkrp-episode-turkeys-away-complete-with.html 792. An Aussie Commentor posted: 11.29.2013 - 5:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have just thought of why NASCAR threw the caution in the second Truck Race at Phoenix when Chase Elliot spun but didn't when John Hunter Nemechek spun. I think it was because Chase Elliot wasn't in the Lucky Dog Position when he spun, but John Hunter Nemechek was in the Lucky Dog Position when he spun. 793. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.29.2013 - 8:04 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Thank you guys for the Vettel responses. F1 has always been tough for me to wrap my head around. I appreciate the help. Somebody mentioned Ed Hinton. Talk about an inglorious ending to a really good writing career. He has spent the last few years writing solely to rile up fans to bring attention to himself. Problem is he used two guys who didn't deliver and made himself look foolish. Every Summer when KyBu got hot, he taunted is fans saying he was gonna win the championship, the first of many for Kyle as he would reac h GOAT status. Then Fall would happen, and his columns about Rowdy were rendered meaningless. The other is Jeff, and how he would taunt Earnhardt fans saying he was better than Dale was. Of course Jeff's production fell off, he meekly allowed his team to become the HMS B Team, and will end his career with a winning % right at or possibly lower than Dale's. Throw in the 3 less championships and lesser longevity in the points (can Jeff get a Top 2 points finish in or after 2015?) and that argument fizzled quickly. 794. We need more Onion posted: 11.29.2013 - 9:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "although in his defense Keselowski is a cool name, too bad nobody can spell Polish names" Haha, Finns, Hungarians and Estonians can spell AND pronounce them properly :) But Keselowski is a cake, I have a Polish friend whose family name is Prczybylko, try to remember that one. (And I even left out an accent from the L, because the forum can't handle it...) 795. Eric posted: 11.29.2013 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jabber1990, It is more than spelling a polish name. Try to pronounce some of the Polish last names. I am saying this because I am Polish. A lot of people though the years asked me how to pronounce my last named and decided to call me by my first name. 796. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.29.2013 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I had a good friend in high school who was born in Poland where his family had always lived until he was 12 and they moved here. We just called him Mick. I can't remember how his name was spelled, but I remember it was pronounced Pri-zhim-mick Vash-ti-nu-ick. 797. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.29.2013 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I've spent much time practicing these things for the reasons above... I feel rude if I am unable to call a person by the term of address they prefer properly. 798. SpeedWorld97 posted: 11.29.2013 - 2:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In F1 news, Pastor Maldonado will race for Lotus in 2014. It's a shame that his money and immense backing from Venezuela are reasons why he got the ride over true talents like Nico Hulkenberg. Other than his win at Spain last year, (which he got basically because Williams figured out the tire issues other top teams struggled with) his career hasn't been that impressive. Even his rookie teammate Valterri Bottas did better than him last year in that awful Williams car. 799. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 11.29.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) 730. DaleSrFanForever posted: So I have just watched the first 2/3 of the 1989 Bristol Spring race. And I have a few thoughts. First off the intro. Instead of hiring some artist who was once really famous, but is now hanging on by the skin of their teeth to fame (Kid Rock, Gretchen Wilson) it is just Bob Jenkins narrating a little 3 minute spot along with an obviously very cheap recording band. And they did a spoof of the old Batman shows from the 60s, showing wrecks from the previous few Bristol races with the hilariously cheesy captions over the crashing cars like in the TV show fights ("BAM!, "ZAP!"). Bob mentions NASCAR's Dynamic Duo (Dale and Rusty) and how each hit the wall at Darlington the previous week. Then it ends with Darrell standing there, with a slightly distorted voice, saying "The Dynamic Duo? Ha! Better watch out for the ol' Joker, he's gonna show up". It was great! It was cheesy, cheaply produced, very minimal, yet I couldn't help but smile and but sucked in. Even Darrell had me smiling! No 20 hour pre race show, no infield studio panel with 60 "experts", no expensive production pieces with washed up artists. It was everything modern day FOX and BSPN aren't. They even used Darrell properly! And they didn't take themselves so goddamn seriously. /- - - - I guess that's the difference between you and I'd be completly turned off by how comical they would be preseting the entire event. Yes, I'm not a fan of using 'has-beens' doing musical intros/outros, but I'd take that in a heartbeat over that. It is a professional sport, present it proffesionally. That was the reason why 2009's FOX Coverage with 3hr pre-race shows centered around the god'd@nm digger camera ticked me off. You know what I want to find. The 2007 Fall Talladega Pre-Race. They aired a 15 minute or so concern about what the new COT could be like at Plate tracks and how dangerous it might become. They turned out being right. Voicing concerns without stupid add-ins is much more appealing to me. If they made the pre-race about how the racing might be affected negatively or positively would be much more appealing. 800. DB1995 posted: 11.29.2013 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I don't think Kid Rock is washed up, hes pretty relevant (at least around here) 801. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.29.2013 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) "I guess that's the difference between you and I'd be completly turned off by how comical they would be preseting the entire event." I look at it as "they don't take themselves so goddamn seriously". I guess in some ways you can't blame so many people for assuming Jimmie is the best ever. The way they present the sport now, every single little thing is treated with the utmost importance and must be analyzed and dissected to no end. Some people just might assume they didn't really care as much back then. But not only did they care just as much, it was how they made their living. Winning the Winston Cup and the bonus it came with at the time was truly a life altering event for them as it allowed them to move into a new area financially. But they were people with real personalities, not child prodigies who grew up learning how to race and nothing else. So when they had a little down time and could have a little fun in front of the camera, they did it with a charming smile. The drivers today don't know how to relax in front of a camera. And it is driving away fans, fans that loved this sport for the competition, the noise, and the rugged roots. Personality is pretty much gone with a few exceptions. Take Kyle Larson for example. He is being touted as the future, the next dominator of the sport. And maybe he is. But he is boring. He is just another young guy who looks even younger than he actually is who never has anything important or interesting to say. With all that said, I respect your opinion. 802. jabber1990 posted: 11.29.2013 - 9:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I had a dream last night that I was listening to the PRN Broadcast of a Nationwide Race in Mexico and then the car of Pauly Harakka went airborne in a crash then went into space where somebody took a welder to it, punctured a hole into the car where it collapsed into itself like a black hole then became a tiny scroll of sheet metal that I could fit into my hand later BSPN showed Carl Edwards doing donuts, I logged onto this site and was all "did Carl win?" and y'all kind of got mad at me for asking a stupid question, yes he won 803. Jim Davis posted: 11.29.2013 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The drivers today don't know how to relax in front of a camera." I'll never understand guys like you. You'll rip a driver a new one because you don't like the way he blinks and then wonder why they can't relax in front of a camera. If drivers 20 years ago we're more relaxed in front of a camera it's probably because there weren't tens of thousands of "fans" foaming at the mouth for a reason to criticize them in very personal terms. 804. Scott. B posted: 11.30.2013 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) #792: As part of the Lucky Dog rules, the driver who brings out the yellow can't be awarded the free pass under that caution. So, in the John Hunter Nemechek spin example, that would not be a reason for race control to stay green. 805. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:46 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Happy Birthday to the late Dick Hutcherson, one of the most insanely talented racers to drive in NASCAR. 806. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 11.30.2013 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "later BSPN showed Carl Edwards doing donuts" BSPN has a habit of missing burnouts when a driver wins, too busy talking too the CC (which is important) or team owner (not really important like right after the race?) Plus i don't think Carl knows how too do donuts, saw a video on Youtube of him winning a N'wide race at Bristol, his burnout was pathetic. "The drivers today don't know how to relax in front of a camera." Perhaps because the media shoves a mic and camera in your face after you worked for 3-4 hours? These guys need a few minutes too collect themselves for cring out loud. Interview them LATER. I've seen top 3 interviews well after the race in the NASCAR media center and those guys are alot more relaxed then they are right after the event. These guys need time chilled and perhaps have a quick debrief with their CC. Media stuff can wait for 5 minutes (or more). 807. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think Kid Rock is washed up, hes pretty relevant (at least around here)" I don't think Kid Rock is washed up because he never amounted to anything in my book in the first place. 808. DB1995 posted: 11.30.2013 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 807. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 2:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think Kid Rock is washed up, hes pretty relevant (at least around here)" I don't think Kid Rock is washed up because he never amounted to anything in my book in the first place. Thats a nice opinion 809. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michigan giving Ohio State a run for their money. Could be huge for Auburn. 810. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.30.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ok, how many drivers are the least bit interesting in ANY interviews? 811. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Upset minded Michigan loses after a 2 point conversion fails. Auburn stops Alabama on 3rd and short and the field goal is no good. Auburn takes over. 812. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nick Marshall misses a WIDE OPEN receiver on 3rd down. Everything went wrong for Alabama on that play except for the fact that Marshall missed his target. Forced to punt. 813. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) McCarron throws a bad pass to Norwood...incomplete. Alabama forced to punt and screws up. It should have been picked up, but goes short instead. Apparently the refs inadvertently blew an alive play dead. 8:40 left in the 1st. Hope my Iron Bowl updates aren't annoying anyone. 814. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TOUCHDOWN AUBURN!!! Nick Marshal 45 yard run. 7-0 5:05 left in the 1st. 815. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alabama stopped on 3rd down again. Alabama punts again. They aren't playing like the #1 team in the country right now. 816. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, running on 3rd and 12 doesn't seem like such a good idea. 817. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Auburn stopped on 3rd and long. Forced to punt. 818. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That touchdown run by Nick Marshall was the first offensive touchdown that Auburn has scored in the last 2 hours, 21 minutes and 50 seconds of Iron Bowl play going all the way back to 2010 when Cam Newton completed a pass to Philip Lutzenkirchenwith 11:55 left in the 4th quarter of that game. (Someone could check my math on that if they like). 819. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Nothing puts a smile on my face like AJ McCarron getting SACKED. 820. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also nice to see the Tide blow two timeouts on one play. 821. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ... well that's disappointing. 822. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Touchdown Bama. 7-7 with 11:00 left in the 2nd. Damn it! If you want to beat Bama, you can't fall for trickery like that. Should have been a punt on 4th&7 instead of a completion on 4th&2. That's what ultimately led to that touchdown. 823. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hate to say it but that's probably ballgame. You don't make a mistake like that to give Alabama guaranteed points and still beat them. 824. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Maybe they'll rule Tre Mason down after Aaron Murray's "touchdown" 2 weeks ago. 825. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^No such luck. 826. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Touchdown Bama. 7-14. 7:12 left in the 2nd. 827. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The good news for Auburn is that they have already made 5 mistakes they shouldn't have made, but are still only down by 7. 828. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The bad news is that Alabama is leading (and getting the ball back) and they don't usually give up leads. 829. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least it was a good game for a quarter or so. Sorry for your loss Zachary Shawn, I was really rooting for Auburn today (I can't stand the Crimson Tide). 830. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^There's still more than half a football game to play. 831. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TOUCHDOWN AUBURN!!!! You were saying NLA? 832. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Considering it was 0-42 going into the half last year, I'd say I'm pretty happy with 14-21. 833. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, that was probably a bit premature. I still don't feel too good about their chances, but at least there is a chance. Are you at the game right now? 834. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Are you at the game right now?" I have season tickets, but things came up yesterday and today in my hometown and I couldn't make it. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world. 835. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently, the replay officials are getting things wrong all over the place today. They've already screwed up both an Auburn and Bama touchdown. Luckily, for both teams they made up for it on the next play. 836. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What if Auburn wins today and then win the SEC championship, then Ohio State and Florida State lose their conference championship game and as a result Auburn Alabama play for the National Championship? That would be NUTS. I'm not too sure I'd support that, though. 837. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TOUCHDOWN AUBURN!!!!!!!!!! WE'RE ALL TIED UP! 11:56 LEFT IN THE 3RD. 838. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have season tickets, but things came up yesterday and today in my hometown and I couldn't make it. It sucks, but it's not the end of the world." Sorry to hear that, I know I would have hated to miss this one if I was a student there. "What if Auburn wins today and then win the SEC championship, then Ohio State and Florida State lose their conference championship game and as a result Auburn Alabama play for the National Championship? That would be NUTS. I'm not too sure I'd support that, though." It was bad enough when they put Alabama in the BCS Championship game against LSU. Teams that don't win their own conference shouldn't be eligible to win the championship, period. Wow, Auburn tied the game. I definitely did not see them scoring 14 unanswered after the momentum Alabama had at 21-7. 839. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm back. *groaning and booing* I see the conversation has shifted to football. 840. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^It's the Iron Bowl, dude. It's like our own, personal Daytona 500. 841. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David's back. *site refuses to load for ten minutes in protest* Just kidding, of course. That was SO CLOSE to being a safety... 842. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tied at the end of 3. 843. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Got a feeling this one may go into overtime. 844. DB1995 posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 839. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm back. *groaning and booing* I see the conversation has shifted to football. What else are we going to talk about?, racing is over now (for the most part) Go VOLS!, need some momentum going into off season after 4 straight losses 845. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's the Iron Bowl, dude. It's like our own, personal Daytona 500." Well, the Sunflower Showdown was also today, which would have meant a lot more to me if a) I actually cared for either KU or K-State (I actually lean toward KU, especially during basketball season), 2) I cared more about FOOTBALL, 3) KU didn't have such a pathetic team, making the game itself a moot point, and 4) I could have actually seen it. But whatever. 846. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SHANKED 847. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NO GOOD!!! NO GOOOD!!! FIELD GOOD IS NO GOOD!!!! AUBURN TAKES OVER!!! 848. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now if Alabama loses by less than 3, all we'll here from the Bammers is about how that call that cost them the field goal is what won Auburn the game. 849. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What else are we going to talk about?, racing is over now (for the most part)" I'm not criticizing. Go for it. In fact, I'm up for a music conversation later on if anyone's interested, since I just got a new iPod nano. 850. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm surprised Bama still utilizes Cade Foster as their kicker. 851. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In fact, I'm up for a music conversation later on if anyone's interested, since I just got a new iPod nano." Can't go wrong with Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, or Ke$ha. Or if you're up for the old school stuff, check out Britney Spears, 98 Degrees, and N'Sync. Am I serious or sarcastic? You decide. Auburn's punter and entire punting unit are amazing. 852. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That coverage literally disgusted me. 853. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well that sucked. 99 yard passing touchdowns should NEVER happen. 854. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my opinion, this is when you tell your player to be MEN. 855. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now that may have been it, but I don't disagree with the play call. 856. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was the right call, just wasn't executed well. 857. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish they had use Jeremy Johnson. 858. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hope that display of arrogance comes back to bite Saban in the ass. 859. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now Auburn may be back in it. This is a crazy game. It's living up to expectations. 860. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't know whether to blame the quarterback or receiver but there's no way you should miss that connection if you are SEC-caliber players. 861. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least they penalized BOTH players, all too often they'll just call a foul on the guy defending himself and not the guy who started the altercation. 862. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Can't go wrong with Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, or Ke$ha. Or if you're up for the old school stuff, check out Britney Spears, 98 Degrees, and N'Sync. Am I serious or sarcastic? You decide." No one in their right mind thinks that those artists make real music, so you have to be kidding. Nice blocked FG by Auburn. 863. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Auburn DOES somehow win, Cade Foster may not want to take the team bus back to Tuscaloosa. 864. Anonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) ^Damn it you two! You're filling up the comment box with drivel! Can't you two text or something? 865. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just don't know what's going to happen. 866. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You must think about half or 75% of the comments here are "drivel," right? 867. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Can't go wrong with Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, or Ke$ha. Or if you're up for the old school stuff, check out Britney Spears, 98 Degrees, and N'Sync." Sarcastic. Methyltrexate would have to be in your system to like that. 868. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zack (#853), you have to remember that a pass defense is the most vulnerable when the offense is backed up deep in their own end because of the ground they have to defend. Let's not forget that McCarron hit them for a 50+ yard pass the previous time they were backed up like that. Why more teams don't try for the long pass when they're backed up like that, I don't know, because the defense is the most vulnerable in that situation. And also, that was a terrible decision by Auburn going for it on their own 35 with that much time left and down by one score. Fortunately, they got away with it cheaply enough, but that was a terrible decision. What Nick Saban should have done was to throw it, since he has a red-hot QB right now, but instead he was too conservative and ran it three or four times. If it were me, I would have gone for the end zone right away. And they mentioned that A.J. McCarron bristled at being called a "game manager". As I recall, there was another QB with that same reputation that went to Alabama in the 1950s by the name of Bart Starr, and all he did was to become the only QB ever to win five NFL championships, as well as to win the first two Super Bowls, and at the end of that run, they (the Packers of Vince Lombardi) relied on his passing, as he threw 6 TDs in the NFL Championship and Super Bowl in '66 (4 vs. Dallas and 2 vs. KC), and was responsible for all three of the Packers TDs in the "Ice Bowl" (2 passing to Boyd Dowler and his QB sneak to win that game), as well as throw two bombs in the Super Bowl against the Raiders, the first of which was a TD to Boyd Dowler and the second, to Max McGee, effectively put the Raiders away in the second Super Bowl, as it set up the Packers on the Raiders' 1, and they scored on the next play to make it 23-7 GB late in the third quarter. 869. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^Damn it you two! You're filling up the comment box with drivel! Can't you two text or something?" You do realize racing season is over, right? 870. The Long Shot posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In fact, I'm up for a music conversation later on if anyone's interested, since I just got a new iPod nano." I might have to duck out for a while, but I'm all for it. I've had my nano for 2 years now (the first and only iPod I've ever had). The fact that it's lasted even this long is a miracle, as it went through an entire wash cycle back during the summer (and it still works perfectly). "Can't go wrong with Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, or Ke$ha. Or if you're up for the old school stuff, check out Britney Spears, 98 Degrees, and N'Sync. Am I serious or sarcastic? You decide." If you're being serious, you are officially dead to me. (To be fair, though, I don't really have a problem with N'Sync.) I guess I'll get the ball rolling, then: does anyone here have much of a taste for acappella music, and if so, what are your favorite group/singers of that genre? 871. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TOUCHDOWN!!! Wow!! 872. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TOUCHDOWN AUBURN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WE'RE STILL IN THIS!!!!!!!!!! 873. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sarcastic. Methyltrexate would have to be in your system to like that." "If you're being serious, you are officially dead to me. (To be fair, though, I don't really have a problem with N'Sync.)" I was sarcastic. I don't listen to anything without a guitar. TOUCHDOWN Auburn! 874. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I feel like this one is going to OT. 875. Spen posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Long Shot: The Nylons. 876. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be honest...I thought he got out before it ran out. 877. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks to me like his foot was still in the air when the clock hit 0:00. 878. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Methyltrexate would have to be in your system to like that." What's that? "I've had my nano for 2 years now (the first and only iPod I've ever had). The fact that it's lasted even this long is a miracle, as it went through an entire wash cycle back during the summer (and it still works perfectly)." Ironic, since my nano just went through a wash cycle, which is why I had to get a new one. Oh well, it had a cracked screen, anyway. Fortunately, I got the new one for $99.99 at Best Buy on Black Friday. "If you're being serious, you are officially dead to me." As for Miley, she is pathetic, but her new song, "Wrecking Ball", would make excellent material for a parody about Dani...wait, don't threaten me with that blackjack...okay, so maybe it wouldn't. Alabama's going for it. 879. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) LOL they're going to try a 60+ yard field goal??? Come on, Auburn, return it for a touchdown. 880. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) OOOOOHHHHHHHH MYYYYYYY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSHH!!! 881. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) YES YES YES YES YES YES YES!!!!!! Down go the Tide!!!!!!!!! 882. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) AUBURN WINS!!!!!! AUBURN WINS!!!! HOLY CRAP!!!! AUBURN WINS!!!! I DON'T BELIEVE IT!!! 883. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DID. YOU. SEE. THAT. NLA is a psychic. 884. NicoRosbergFan posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hell yeah!!!!!!!!! 885. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And unfortunately, college football's OT is not what I call real football, as we all know. I hate the idea of placing the ball on the opponents' 25, because in theory, you're already in FG range if you don't move another inch. I prefer the way the NFL does it, and always have. That said, they wouldn't be going to OT if not for Nick Saban's ultra-conservative play calling when he had Auburn on the ropes. If Alabama loses, they deserve to lose, particularly Saban, because he should have let McCarron throw and try to put Auburn away after Auburn's stupid decision to go for it on their own 35, instead of play it conservative. That's what I would call playing not to lose, instead of playing to win. And on top of that, why go for a 57-YD FG when you know it could be returned, as it just was. As I said, Saban threw this game away. 886. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "NLA is a psychic." Hey, I thought the game was over in the 2nd quarter with Alabama up 14. 887. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Alabama's got no athletes on the field. It's all fat guys." 888. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Never seen so many bad decisions in a game by Nick Saban, but I'm not complaining. Enjoy this win, Zachary Shawn, and who knows what this could lead to for Auburn. Auburn made itself a national title favorite with one missed kick return. 889. DB1995 posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HOLY CRAP!!!!. I never expected that in a million years. I wonder who Alabamas kicker will be next year? 890. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Yeah, that quote cracked me up. 891. TS1420 posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Holy crap that was friggin' awesome! 892. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think we now know exactly why Nick Saban never made it in the NFL, because if I didn't know any better, I would say that Saban tried to lose this game. I'm sure they're laughing as hard as they can in Miami, and I think Don Shula is somewhat smiling, given how he was Nick Saban's #1 critic when he bolted from the Dolphins. You don't play not to lose, because all you'll do is lose, and this game was another prime example. He had a red-hot QB in A.J. McCarron, and at the moment he could have put Auburn away, he played it ultra-conservative, taking the ball out of the hands of his best offensive player, and then when he got that extra second at the end, did the one thing that could have got him beat. If he had McCarron throw a Hail Mary pass, it might not have been complete, but the worst thing that could have happened would have been OT, but instead, he did the one thing that could have lost them the game, which it did. 893. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Hey Zackary Shawn, in the words of Takeo Spikes from the "War Eagle/Roll Tide" ESPN documentary... War f**king Eagle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Haha so awesome to see the mighty Tide go down in heartbreaking fashion. Go Auburn, FSU, and O-H-I-O. 894. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nick Saban won that game. Problem is he won it for Auburn. 895. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There will not be enough toilet paper in Auburn tonight. 896. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How big are the two miracles in Jordan-Harre? The interception in the endzone with 32 seconds to play in the OSU-Michigan game looms large as well. 897. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll be a Duke and Michigan State fan next week as well. 898. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder how this is going to affect the BCS standings, as far as how far Alabama might fall, because since Ohio State were, themselves one missed 2-point conversion away from losing to Michigan, Alabama might not be out of the national championship picture yet. If Alabama drops only to #4, then I believe they could still be in the championship game, but if they drop to 5 or 6, then they'd be out of it. Remember that #5 Missouri plays #10 South Carolina for the right to play Auburn, and if South Carolina wins, I doubt they would jump ahead of Alabama (Missouri almost certainly would), plus Ohio State still has to play in the Big 10 Championship game, which is also no shoo-in for them. There's a chance we might see a match-up between Florida State and any one of four or five different teams, one of which could be Alabama, for the national championship when it's all said and done. 899. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zack, since it's football, Duke has no chance against FSU, but I think Michigan State does have a chance against Ohio State, but also, Auburn's no lock against whoever they'll face in the SEC Championship, and we could see something happen like it did two years ago when Alabama snuck in there, despite not winning their conference, because if Ohio State loses and South Carolina beats Missouri and Auburn, Alabama could still sneak in there at #2. Also, Auburn may not need Ohio State to lose. Their win today might, by itself, propel them past Ohio State in the BCS rankings and into the #2 spot, because of who they beat. 900. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Remember that #5 Missouri plays #10 South Carolina for the right to play Auburn" That's actually incorrect, CJS, unless you meant "plays" in the figurative sense. Missouri is playing Texas A&M tonight and South Carolina is playing Clemson. If Missouri wins they play Auburn. If Missouri loses South Carolina plays Auburn. Missouri controls their own destiny. 901. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yep, CJS Bama will likely fall behind FSU, OSU, Auburn, and maybe Missouri if Mizzou beats Texas A&M. The Tide isn't completely out of it especially with an Ohio State and Auburn loss in their respective conference championship games. This is why I love College Football so much despite the corrupt BCS. At this time of year four or five teams are in the running for a national championship and every game matters. I live in Buckeye land so for the home state team to play for the Coaches' Trophy , they need Texas A&M to upset Missouri as the winner of a Mizzou/Auburn SEC Championship Game might have enough human votes to surpass them. 902. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, Auburn may not need Ohio State to lose. Their win today might, by itself, propel them past Ohio State in the BCS rankings and into the #2 spot, because of who they beat." I agree with this. I also think that Alabama, Auburn, and Missouri could all crush Ohio State. Two scenarios that could help Ohio States. Both Missouri and South Carolina lose. The reason I say that is, if this happens, Michigan State will likely be ranked higher than whoever Auburn plays (which would be South Carolina if they both lose as I understand it). If they could be a higher ranked opponent that could be the difference. Also, if Auburn loses the SEC Championship and Ohio State wins that would, obviously, benefit them greatly. 903. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some fan base is going to be really irritated, be it Ohio State or the entire SEC if the conference gets shutout of the BCS title picture... hell will freeze over before then. 904. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, if Auburn loses the SEC Championship and Ohio State wins that would, obviously, benefit them greatly." The problem with that scenario is Alabama will likely back into the #2 position if Auburn loses the SEC Championship game. For Ohio State, there is no easy scenario if they take care of Michigan State. 905. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sorry about that mistake, Zack. But the fact remains that, if it's South Carolina playing Auburn, then Alabama's not out of the title picture, though they'll drop to #4, even if Missouri loses, though Alabama would be out of it if Missouri won. But also, Ohio State still is not likely to control it's destiny, and are also likely out of it if Missouri wins a spot in the SEC Championship, because Auburn's likely to leapfrog Ohio State, who barely beat an unranked Michigan team today, and were a successful 2-point conversion from losing. So unless, FSU blows it against Duke (yes, Duke), Ohio State can't possibly play for the title if Missouri ends up playing Auburn, because Auburn would likely be ahead of Ohio State, and Missouri would likely leapfrog Ohio State, even with a loss, if they won, because of who they would play, not taking anything away from Michigan State. And Jarrett88fan, Auburn's likely to pass Ohio State this week, despite having one loss on it's record, because of the computers, because of the strength of schedule factoring in, so while FSU's likely to move up to #1, Auburn would probably move up to #2, if they don't move up to #1 themselves, but Ohio State would still be #3, in any event, and could actually drop to #4, even with a win over Michigan State, because of barely beating unranked Michigan today. The fact that they just barely beat Michigan will likely cost OSU any chance at an undisputed title this year, even if they end up the only unbeaten team at the end. 906. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Auburn wins the SEC Championship and Florida State wins the ACC Championship, there is no scenario for Alabama to play for the BCS. If things go according to how the experts predict (War Eagle miracle II anyone?) Ohio State is likely going to get stiffed. 907. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The problem with that scenario is Alabama will likely back into the #2 position if Auburn loses the SEC Championship game. For Ohio State, there is no easy scenario if they take care of Michigan State." If I was an Ohio State fan, I'd rather the voters be faced with choosing between Ohio State and a 1 loss Alabama to send to the National Championship, than a 1 loss Auburn. Too much human emotion could play a decision if it comes down to choosing between OSU and AU just because of the story book season that AU has had. Obviously, I hope it does, but looking at it objectively, that's the way I see it. 908. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No Jarrett88fan, Ohio State won't fall below Alabama if they win next week, and Alabama won't stay ahead of Ohio State this week. When I said they would drop at least to #4, Ohio State was one of the teams I had moving ahead of Alabama. Alabama's no threat to Ohio State if the Buckeyes win next week. The Crimson Tide's only possible chance is if Missouri lost tonight, and both Ohio State and Auburn both lot their respective conference title games to Michigan State and South Carolina, if we're all going to assume that FSU's going to blow out Duke and be in the title game. 909. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Throwing the BCS out and ignoring the computers, OSU needs Mizzou to lose and South Carolina to rise up and win the SEC Championship game. This might be the only way Ohio State could get to #2. 910. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I almost think Ohio State should be treated as an undefeated mid-major given how putrid the Big Ten has been this season and the fact that their nonconference schedule did nothing at all to toughen their schedule, but we'll see if they're legit when they play a decent Michigan State team. I don't think Auburn will leapfrog them this week, but I know I would definitely take Auburn in a head-to-head matchup. 911. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jarrett88fan, obviously if FSU and Auburn take care of business next week, then there's your championship game, with apologies to Ohio State, who I think deserves it over Auburn for the most obvious reason. They're undefeated. But when Alabama won the title two years ago, despite not winning the SEC title, they had to have a combination of about five or six things fall their way, and then have the BCS standings fall their way, and everything they needed to happen did, and then the BCS standings fell their way. That's not likely to happen again. It's more likely that a team will go undefeated in the NFL again than a scenario like that playing out again. 912. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ultimately, I don't think any of this will matter though because the SEC West is superior the the East. I just can't see Missouri or South Carolina beating Auburn (or Alabama if they had made it). 913. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Any way you slice it Zack, most voters will take Alabama over Ohio State. SEC, SEC, SEC and the 7 consecutive BCS Titles will factor in their decision outside of Strength of Schedule. If Missouri wins tonight, the gap between them and Ohio State will narrow if Auburn indeed jumps past the Buckeyes in the BCS. 914. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And besides Zack, I'm not sure anyone's beating FSU anyway, unless their QB goes to jail for that rape incident that hasn't been taken care of yet. If he's available, then I think that Florida State will beat whoever they face, and might beat them handily. Here's something else to think about, as far as the title picture is concerned. Right now, South Carolina, who would play in the SEC Championship Game if Missouri loses, is leading Clemson, the sixth-ranked team in the nation. If they won that game, and then beat Auburn, who figures to be no worse than #2, and if Ohio State lost to Michigan State, it's not totally inconceivable that Steve Spurrier might have a shot at another title. And if Clemson won, they're not out of the picture if they get ahead of Alabama, and Ohio State and Auburn lost their conference title games (assuming it's to South Carolina). In other words, if Clemson beats South Carolina and Missouri loses tonight and Clemson moves ahead of Alabama into the #4 spot, they're not out of it either. 915. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pride cometh before the fall Zack...don't count your chickens. Frankly, Florida State is the beneficiary of all this hypothetical wrangling about other team's chances. Everything is in front of FSU and baring a meltdown against Duke and Florida DA Meigs pulling the trigger on the Jameis Winston case, they have earned the right to play for a national championship. 916. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Clemson???? BCS darkhorse????? Stranger things have happened, i.e., the last two weeks in 2007 that saw a 2 loss LSU jump three of four places due to upsets over teams like West Virginia in the Backyard Brawl with Pitt. 917. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 8:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree...The four serious contenders are Florida State, Ohio State, Auburn, and Missouri. FSU, OSU, and AU survived this week and all four HAVE to survive next week to have a shot at the BCS. Mizzou may not even make it through this week. The two dark horses are Alabama and Clemson, but they need at least 3 of those four to lose to have a chance. However, if Bama is ranked ahead of Clemson when the new BCS Rankings come out tomorrow, I think Clemson's chances are done. 918. cjs3872 posted: 11.30.2013 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The winner of the Clemson/South Carolina game could be a BCS darkhorse, depending on how things fall with the Missouri game, the BCS standings release tomorrow, and the Big Ten and SEC Championship Games next week. Missouri locks out both Alabama and the winner of the Clemson/South Carolina game with a win tonight. Also, here's something. As great as we think of Alabama to be in recent seasons, consider this. They've lost 5 of 12 November games over the past three seasons. That's anything but great. So what appears to be happening is that Alabama falters, or even physically wears down during the course of the season, because they're 31-1 in August, September, and October, but barely have a winning record in November at 7-5. And remember that people have said most of the year that this is not the same kind of Alabama team that's been one of the dominant powers, and that they've been vulnerable. After all, lost in all of Nick Saban's failings is the fact that they allowed Auburn to drive 80 yards in less than 2 minutes to tie the game. In recent years, that would have never happened, and on the game-tying score, there was a major breakdown because there wasn't anyone within 20 yards of the receiver. Maybe what happened was the weaknesses of the Alabama team this year coming home to roost. But no mater the personnel, no program has even won national championship three years in a row, and that apparently will continue this year. 919. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They've lost 5 of 12 November games over the past three seasons." Are you sure you don't mean the last FOUR seaons CJS? Alabama has only lost 3 games total the last 3 years: LSU in 2011, Texas A&M in 2012, and Auburn in 2013. They did, however, lose to both LSU and Auburn in 2010 during the month of November. 920. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Or if you're up for the old school stuff, check out Britney Spears, 98 Degrees, and N'Sync." I meant to comment on this earlier, but Auburn football got in the way... I don't necessarily think highly of 'NSync as a group, but Justin Timberlake is an undeniably talented musician. 921. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 11.30.2013 - 9:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Justin Timberlake is a great musician, especially if you are into that kind of music. The problems with N'Sync were that he was just 1/5th of the band and he wasn't really actively involved with the writing process. There's a reason no one has heard of 3 of the others since they broke up, and Lance Bass has only been newsworthy for his sexual orientation. 922. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 9:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Justin Timberlake has been opened for discussion. *whew* So I can say without fear of ostracization that I like his music (or some of it, anyway). I actually have "Mirrors" on my iPod (or had, it appears to be malfunctioning at the moment, which is stupid). Great song, but the last two minutes are a bit strange. Oh, and "Timberweek" on Late Night with Jimmy Fallon was hilarious, especially the hashtag segment. 923. murb posted: 11.30.2013 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "does anyone here have much of a taste for acappella music" I wouldn't call it a "taste", but I do frequently study it. I record my own music, so I do a lot of studying of isolated tracks. Vocals are one of the trickiest parts to recording (at least for me), so a lot of times I'll look up isolated vocal tracks just to see how they sound or how they are recorded, if that makes sense. As for Justin Timberlake, I'm not into his music at all, but he seems like a really cool guy personally. And like David said, he's pretty hilarious too. Some of that stuff he's done on SNL is legendary (namely "Dick In A Box"). 924. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "does anyone here have much of a taste for acappella music, and if so, what are your favorite group/singers of that genre?" I always preferred Blackapella myself. Or Quarter Black. ;) 100,000 points to whoever gets that TV show reference. "As for Justin Timberlake, I'm not into his music at all, but he seems like a really cool guy personally. And like David said, he's pretty hilarious too." That pretty much sums up how I feel about him. Really, the only song of his that I'm not indifferent about is the aforementioned "Mirrors". The rest of his music doesn't really appeal to me, but it's not disgusting either. "Some of that stuff he's done on SNL is legendary (namely "Dick In A Box")." Along with the video on Late Night where he and Jimmy Fallon (who is also hilarious) parody hashtag conversations on Twitter, I also loved the "Real People, Fake Arms" soap opera parody that they did with Steve Carrell. If you haven't seen it, see it. Now. 925. The Long Shot posted: 11.30.2013 - 10:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I record my own music, so I do a lot of studying of isolated tracks. Vocals are one of the trickiest parts to recording (at least for me), so a lot of times I'll look up isolated vocal tracks just to see how they sound or how they are recorded, if that makes sense." So when you say "tricky to record", are you actually talking about the mixing process afterwards? Because from my studies of audio engineering, yes, mixing vocals is probably one of the hardest things music producers have to do. As long as you have a good microphone, though, you shouldn't have to do too much during production, other than maybe adding a bit of reverb, equalizing the track, and then compressing it to reduce noise levels at certain areas. "So I can say without fear of ostracization that I like his music (or some of it, anyway). I actually have "Mirrors" on my iPod (or had, it appears to be malfunctioning at the moment, which is stupid). Great song, but the last two minutes are a bit strange." I'm honestly amazed at some of the garbage that I've put on my iPod. I get the fact that my taste in music is extremely diverse (I can listen to Nickelback one minute, Simon and Garfunkel the next, and finish off with a nice dish of Beach Boys), but the fact that I have songs by Eminem, the Jonas Brothers (please, just don't ask), and Owl City on it is peculiar to say the least. I don't even like rap music, and the only reason I have that "Fireflies" song on there is because it is so f**ing catchy that I often have to stop myself from singing it. 926. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #10 South Carolina defeats #6 Clemson. 31-17. I'd say that effectively ends any outside chance Clemson had at the National title. #5 Missouri and #19 Texas A&M are tied at 21 in 4th. If Missouri loses tonight, I say Alabama remains in the top 4, but they would need 2 out 3 of FSU, OSU, and AU to lose next week or 3 out of 4 if Mizzou makes it. The worst case scenario for Bama is Missouri advancing to the SEC Championship because that guarantees that at least one of the teams they need to lose will win a game (either AU or Mizzou). 927. murb posted: 11.30.2013 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So when you say "tricky to record", are you actually talking about the mixing process afterwards?" Yeah, that's mostly the hardest part. But it's kind of hard during the actual recording as well. You first have to level the vocals right so they don't drown out all the other instruments, and you also have to decide if you want to double track them (or basically, just do another vocal take that mirrors the previous one - I usually don't do this, but sometimes it's for the best). When I'm recording vocals, I usually just duplicate the vocal track numerous times in my program (usually Garageband, if you're wondering) to layer them up. That's a really quick and easy way to get a pretty thick vocal sound. I'll especially do that if it's my own band that I'm recording, mainly because we're a bunch of impatient teenagers in a punk band that just want to get the rawest and quickest sound possible. 928. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as music goes...I pretty much will listen to anything, but lately I've found myself more inclined toward country. Luke Bryan, Blake Shelton, Jason Aldean, Brad Paisley and, yes, even Ms. Taylor Swift seem to be who I listen to the most these days..but I like some of the older stuff too like Garth Brooks, Alan Jackson, George Starit, Alabama, etc. I also think Eminem's new album is pretty BA. Don't really like really heavy rock, especially modern day hard rock (I do like System of a Down, though). I don't like stuff that's too mellow either. Elton John and U2 are great as well. 929. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Missouri just took the lead late in the 4th. Still plenty of time for TAMU. All you need is a second, as AU proved earlier today. 930. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Allen Bestwick is calling the Boise State/New Mexico game on the Smurf Turf for BSPN... auditioning for a play-by-play position for 2015 forward? 931. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whelp, Missouri has done it and improved their resume. Somewhere tonight, the POS Harvey Updike is drowning his sorrows. 932. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 11:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) #5 Missouri beats #19 Texas A&M. It's crazy that teams that had a combined 2-14 conference record last year will be playing for the conference championship this year. As for Alabama...their path to 3-peat just got a whole lot narrower. 933. Zackary Shawn posted: 11.30.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Somewhere tonight, the POS Harvey Updike is drowning his sorrows." As long as that's the only thing he's drowning, then so be it... 934. Jarrett88fan posted: 11.30.2013 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) More than anything, a non-Bama BCS Title game is great news... hopefully Missouri leaps past the Crimson Tide as well. Its as if the golden goose that has been laying the eggs for the SEC is (tentatively) out of the picture. In addition to the two SEC turnaround teams, there is Duke football playing the new #1 team, and Minnesota going from 3-9 two years ago to 8-4 despite their head coaches challenges with epileptic seizures. A lot of moral, feel good stories in College Football in 2013. 935. DaleSrFanForever posted: 11.30.2013 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to Zachary Shawn on Auburn's win. 936. David posted: 11.30.2013 - 11:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm honestly amazed at some of the garbage that I've put on my iPod." I, on the other hand, am extremely picky about what goes on my iPod. If I'm not 100% sure that I want it on there, I usually won't put it on, especially since I don't have much balance left on the gift card I got for my birthday. "I get the fact that my taste in music is extremely diverse" I hear you. "I can listen to Nickelback one minute" Ugh. I used to tolerate Nickelback, but now I think they're overrated and overplayed. It's gotten to the point where I can't stand the sound of them singing. "Simon and Garfunkel the next" FTW! "and finish off with a nice dish of Beach Boys" Got to have those classics on there. You can't go wrong with the Beach Boys. "but the fact that I have songs by Eminem" Begh. Who drugged you just before you downloaded those? "the Jonas Brothers (please, just don't ask)" At least it's not One Direction, hee hee. Pretty much all the girls at our school are crazy about them. And then there are the few who like Fall Out Boy instead. "and Owl City on it is peculiar to say the least" Not the worst band out there. But not the best, either. "I don't even like rap music" "Rap music" is a contradiction. There is no such thing. "and the only reason I have that "Fireflies" song on there is because it is so f**ing catchy that I often have to stop myself from singing it." Yep. Someone sang that at our school's homecoming assembly. I get requests to play that song on piano infrequently (thought I never do). Speaking of our homecoming assembly, our assistant principal, choir teacher, football coach, and a few students actually got together and played a Metallica song, "Enter Sandman", complete with electric guitars and drum set. It was very well done. "As far as music goes...I pretty much will listen to anything, but lately I've found myself more inclined toward country." I don't go in much for newer country songs. "Taylor Swift" She's alright, though I don't think her music is as good as it once was. 937. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) As much of a metal head that I am, I am proud to say I have Conway Twitty on my iPod. Your iPod is not truly an iPod until it has at least one Conway Twitty song on it. 938. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm definitely into classic music (especially The Beatles and Pink Floyd), but my favorite band of the 21st century BY FAR has to be Coldplay. They seem like a band that can't produce one bad song. 939. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) iPod's are usless if they don't have Conway Twitty, Johnny Cash, and a little Hank Williams Jr. as I'm more of a Classic Rock 70s and 80s guy. Occasionally, Bluegrass, New Wave Pop from the 1980s also hit the spot. Yeah for eclectic music interests. To Zack, Auburn's Athletic Director claims it would be an "injustice to the rest of the country" if they win the SECCG and not play for a BCS Title. At this point, Gordon Gee, the Ohio State AD should not respond. No "little sisters of the poor" comments required. 940. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also have Johnny Cash and Bocephus on my iPod. This country boy can survive! 941. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ugh. I used to tolerate Nickelback, but now I think they're overrated and overplayed. It's gotten to the point where I can't stand the sound of them singing." I have two problems with Nickelback: 1. Chad Kroeger's desperate attempts to look and sound like Kurt Cobain. 2. Almost all of their songs sound the same. In fact, there are two of their songs that have the exact same structure. "At least it's not One Direction, hee hee. Pretty much all the girls at our school are crazy about them. And then there are the few who like Fall Out Boy instead." Do they like Fall Out Boy, or do they like Pete Wentz? "Not the worst band out there. But not the best, either." Owl City isn't really a band, it's a one-man project. But given the state of pop music now, I can't complain much about Owl City. 942. cjs3872 posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zack (#932), Alabama's road to a third consecutive national title didn't narrow with Missouri's win over Texas A&M. It got shut completely. Those possible scenarios I mentioned included a Missouri loss, but since they won, it's all over for Alabama's backdoor hopes for a third straight title. If Missouri doesn't leapfrog Alabama tomorrow, they sure would if they beat Auburn. Also, I find it interesting that the ESPN guys don't think Auburn can leapfrog Ohio State and into the #2 spot. They shouldn't leapfrog Ohio State because they have a loss and Ohio State doesn't, but I think they will because Ohio State barely beat an unranked Michigan team. Had Ohio State easily beat Michigan, then I think they move up to #2, but because they barely beat Michigan, I think they stay at #3, but fall behind Auburn. Reputation won't help Ohio State's cause, either, but that should have nothing to do with it. What would probably propel Auburn to the #2 spot is strength of victory, and nothing else. 943. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) I only have one problem with Nickleback: 1) Everything about them 944. David posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but my favorite band of the 21st century BY FAR has to be Coldplay." Oh yeah!! "Clocks" is a classic. To prove how selective I am with my tracks, I'll post the complete list of songs that were on my old iPod before it drowned, ordered by artist: - "Let It Be", The Beatles - "It's Still Rock and Roll to Me", Billy Joel - "We Didn't Start the Fire", Billy Joel - "Cool the Engines", Boston - "Foreplay/Long Time", Boston - "Hitch a Ride", Boston - "More Than a Feeling", Boston - "Party", Boston - "Peace of Mind", Boston - "Rock and Roll Band", Boston - "Smokin'", Boston - "Grenade", Bruno Mars - "Treasure", Bruno Mars - "When I Was Your Man", Bruno Mars - "I Love NASCAR", Cledus T. Judd - "Clocks", Coldplay - "The Scientist", Coldplay - "Workin' for the Weekend", Josh Gracin - "Don't Stop Believin'", Journey - "Separate Ways (Worlds Apart)", Journey - "Carry On Wayward Son", Kansas - "Simple Man", Lynyrd Skynyrd - "Flirtin' with Disaster", Molly Hatchet - "The Name's Bond...James Bond", Monty Norman - "I Can't Drive 55", Sammy Hagar - "Bruises", Train (feat. Ashley Monroe) - "California 37", Train - "Drive By", Train - "Drops of Jupiter", Train - "Feels Good At First", Train - "Mermaid", Train - "Sing Together", Train - "This'll Be My Year", Train - "We Were Made For This", Train - "When The Fog Rolls In", Train - "You Can Finally Meet My Mom", Train - "50 Ways To Say Goodbye", Train - "Albuquerque", Weird Al Yankovic - "The Saga Begins", Weird Al Yankovic Scrutinize at will, but do try to keep the laughing to a minimum. 945. 18fan posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Caught the end of the Auburn-Alabama game on the big screen before the UCLA-USC game (In which my Bruins dominated USC, which was awesome) and all I have to say is unbelievable. 946. David posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Do they like Fall Out Boy, or do they like Pete Wentz?" Nope, definitely Fall Out Boy. And it's mainly among the juniors and seniors (OK, only two in particular, but it's safe to say there are others like them). 'Almost all of their songs sound the same. In fact, there are two of their songs that have the exact same structure." Only two? Which ones? 947. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, Alabama could still make it to the BCS Title game if Duke, Michigan State, and Missouri all win. That likely leaves Auburn and Alabama in another all-SEC title game rematch. Sounds familiar? Please pass the extra tall, double wide Donny Lia bucket if that improbable scenario comes to fruition. If either Florida State or Ohio State lose, the winner of the SEC Championship game goes no matter what. Bama is likely looking at the Orange Bowl due to the Orange Committee having the first choice in bowl selection this year. 948. DB1995 posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Surprised no one has mentioned it, but R.I.P Paul Walker I am 16, 17 in 3 days and my favorite artists are (in no particular order past the top 5) 1)AC/DC- no comparison, none other is even close at all 2)Boston 3)The Who 4)Quiet Riot 5)Foreighner- Horrendous spelling 6)Miley Cyrus- older stuff, basically Hannah Montana days, hey I was a little kid back then 7)Katy Perry 8)Julianne Hough- she doesn't sing all that often, but when she does its great I think 9)KISS 10)Ted Nugent- BTW "TED NUGENT FOR PRESIDENT!!!" Don't judge me.... 949. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lastly for tonight, one has to think karma has come around to Alabama for the all SEC BCS National Championship barnburner rematch with LSU at the end of the 2011 season. Many people believed there was no way the Crimson Tide should have played for the BCS Title without winning their conference championship game. 950. murb posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My problem with Nickelback is that they are "rock stars", not musicians. They don't care about the music. It's evident by what NLA was talking about. Every one of their songs (all the ones I've heard on TV and radio anyway - I'm not about to listen to one of their full lengths) ALL sound the same. So when you combine this laziness with their total douchebaggery (Kroeger is one of the biggest dicks in the world), it proves that they are just in it for the fame and the "rock star" status. There's absolutely nothing wrong with making money and getting famous off your music, but when you constantly give off a vibe that you don't care about the music itself, that is a huge middle finger to not only the listeners, but also every other musician out there who is working their ass off trying to make music for a living. I'll take Green Day as an example. A lot of people trash them and call them "sellouts" because they've made a huge living off of their stuff. But I have a huge amount of respect for them. They are constantly trying to push boundaries and do new things with their albums, because they want to make MUSIC. I certainly don't like their 2004-present stuff as much as the old school stuff (Dookie and Insomniac, now those are two damn good albums), but I have huge amounts of respect for their determination (even though their rich), unlike these Nickelback assholes who have no care whatsoever for the music. 951. murb posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, to whoever it was earlier that said they liked Eminem's new album, I actually enjoyed it for the most part too. His early stuff (Slim Shady LP, MMLP1) was some of the most original hip hop to ever come out, so it was a lot of fun to hear him kind of go back to his roots with similar songs on this album. 952. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.01.2013 - 2:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know what PISSES ME OFF? About a week ago Auburn had a lottery for $60 SEC Championship tickets just in case. Now people are selling them for $300+ trying to make a profit off of something they got completely BY CHANCE. I'm all for making a profit, but come on...theses people didn't have to work at all to get these. At least with regular season tickets, the order in which you can purchase them is based upon how many Auburn credits you have completed so there is some work that goes with that. 953. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.01.2013 - 2:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) murb, that was me who said I enjoyed Eminem's newest album. 954. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What lunatic s**t are you on, Gus Malzahn? That's what we're trying to ask. Who are you? What international cartel's books did you brilliantly launder before entering WitSec under an alias as a rural high school football coach? How did you take the SEC's worst team last year and turn it into this, a team running a mutant Wing-T with five plays capable of shredding the tracks of college football's most fearsomely engineered war machine? You have a former DB who cannot pass at quarterback, and the former head coach of one of college football's worst teams in recent history at defensive coordinator. How? How is any of this working at all, much less against the best college football coach alive? ^And that, my friends, about sums it up. 955. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 9:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "10)Ted Nugent- BTW "TED NUGENT FOR PRESIDENT!!!" " Yes! The Nuge rules. The mostly liberal media hates him (and don't take that to mean I am a conservative, because I'm not, but outside of the cartoonishly conservative Fox News, which also sucks, the media is mostly liberal) but I enjoy his viewpoints. And his music kicks ass! Zachary Shawn, isn't it awesome to go into a season just hoping to avoid embarrassment, then wind up being pissed about stuff like that? That is how I am with the Panthers this year. At the beginning I would have loved to be angry about the stuff they do that makes me angry because that means they actually matter. Sometimes I think "calm down, be happy you have this problem". But as a fan, we have an obligation to get mad at little stuff when our team matters. 956. cjs3872 posted: 12.01.2013 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, Jarrett88fan. What would happen is that, if Missouri doesn't jump over Alabama in today's BCS standings, they would certainly jump over Alabama if they beat Auburn, so Alabama's out of it with Missouri's win, even if everyone else ahead of them that could lose, did lose (there's no way FSU could possibly lose to Duke). So what we're looking at is likely an FSU/Auburn championship game, unless Auburn loses to Missouri, in which case, it's going to be close between Ohio State and Missouri. what you have is three teams going for one spot (Auburn, Ohio State, and Missouri), with FSU already slotted in, barring something of unimaginable proportions happening. 957. Spen posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I wrote a gargantuan music post this morning, and then the site decided to crash just as I hit 'publish'. That... didn't make me a happy camper. 958. The Long Shot posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I, on the other hand, am extremely picky about what goes on my iPod. If I'm not 100% sure that I want it on there, I usually won't put it on, especially since I don't have much balance left on the gift card I got for my birthday." Most of the songs on mine are imported from my CDs, so I can afford to be a little less choosy about what goes on and what doesn't. "Ugh. I used to tolerate Nickelback, but now I think they're overrated and overplayed. It's gotten to the point where I can't stand the sound of them singing." It's a love-hate relationship with them for me. There are some songs of theirs which I think are really good ("Lullaby", "If Today Was Your Last Day", "Savin' Me"), and there are others that are downright terrible. "Begh. Who drugged you just before you downloaded those?" To be fair, it's only one song, and I find that song fairly tolerable to listen to. "At least it's not One Direction, hee hee. Pretty much all the girls at our school are crazy about them. And then there are the few who like Fall Out Boy instead." Please, let's just move on. My sister's a fan of theirs, so I know all about 1D fangirls, thank you very much. "I don't go in much for newer country songs." I'm not a fan of country at all, but I often sing along to Josh Turner's songs, specifically just to increase my vocal range. Believe it or not, it's actually kind of worked. "I have two problems with Nickelback: 1. Chad Kroeger's desperate attempts to look and sound like Kurt Cobain. 2. Almost all of their songs sound the same. In fact, there are two of their songs that have the exact same structure." I agree with you on the former, but you could say the latter about a lot of rock bands. Yeah, a lot of Nickelback's songs sound the same, but I could make an equally strong case for other rock bands of the same era (or earlier). "Kroeger is one of the biggest dicks in the world" Huh? The guy may act like a jackass on stage (which I dislike, but again, you could say the same about other rock bands as well), but from all the interviews I've seen with him, he seems like the type of person who you'd like to have as a neighbor; a down-to-earth, friendly, humble guy. I'm not trying to be a Nickelback apologist here; I just can't understand the irrational hate that is being thrown at them, when a lot of the arguments for that hate could just as easily be directed to other rock groups. "Yes! The Nuge rules. The mostly liberal media hates him (and don't take that to mean I am a conservative, because I'm not, but outside of the cartoonishly conservative Fox News, which also sucks, the media is mostly liberal) but I enjoy his viewpoints." I'm surprised that you seem to like him so much, DSFF. Nugent's political views are about as far to the right as anybody's, and he tends to run his mouth WAY too much for my liking. But I won't go any further with this, as I promised to stop the political conversations. 959. David posted: 12.01.2013 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "My sister's a fan of theirs" I'm sorry, man. So, so sorry. :) "I'm not a fan of country at all, but I often sing along to Josh Turner's songs, specifically just to increase my vocal range." Pffh...I can do the same thing with one Bruno Mars song. ;) "Most of the songs on mine are imported from my CDs, so I can afford to be a little less choosy about what goes on and what doesn't." Well, the only CD I've received was Train's album California 37 last year for Christmas. Fortunately, most of the songs that are on my iPod, I didn't have to download, as they were already on iTunes (namely the Boston songs) or on a burned CD lying around somewhere. 960. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Allen Bestwick is calling the Boise State/New Mexico game on the Smurf Turf for BSPN... auditioning for a play-by-play position for 2015 forward?" Adam Alexander was doing that same FS1 for ISU vs WVU. I think its safe too say BSPN and TNT will mail in TV coverage next year. They wanted out but NASCAR said "pay us." But they said "eh, no thanks. We'll just give shitty TV coverage for you as well leave then give you the finger for good measure." Talking about music, my favorite bands/songs: Faith No More Fall Out Boy (early stuff) SnowPatrol (few songs they've done) Nickelback (early stuff) The Who The Beatles Amon Tobin (he made the music for Tom Clancyes Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory) Jimmy Eat World M.I.A: Paper airplanes (intro song too Far Cry 3) Fastball - Morning Star Skrillex - Make It Bun Dem (feat. Damian Marley): Far Cry 3, plays while you are buring a field of weed plants.... i kid you not. (Hed) Pe - Get Away (From NASCAR Thunder 2003) Sniff 'n' The Tears- Drivers Seat (Heard this on the Walking Dead) I'm not even close too finishing but i'll stop here. 961. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm surprised that you seem to like him so much, DSFF. Nugent's political views are about as far to the right as anybody's, and he tends to run his mouth WAY too much for my liking." I don't agree with everything he says, and yes he is a blowhard (something about those Detroit folks, like Brad), and I hate politics, but there is a charm to his antics. Kinda like, on the other end of the political spectrum, James Carville. 962. JG24FanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm watching the Carolina game with the biggest Panthers fan in all of Greenville. Cam's playing pretty damn good. 963. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cam has matured a lot this year. He has surprised me. The biggest thing he has developed some serious 4th quarter chops. He used to be a great 45 minute player. He has become dependable for all 60 minutes now. I would like to see him become more accurate downfield. But he has become a MUCH better teammate this year (his sideline sulking used to make my blood boil) and has showed he can go on a hot streak and win a bunch of games in a row. So if they can ever start one of those rolls in late December with a winning record, they can win it all. I must say, I hope Auburn wins it all this year. I think that will be good for Cam. When they won it in 2010 it was all about Cam publicly. And he bought his own hype. This year I get the feeling he has realized it isn't all about him, and his mere presence isn't enough to qualify as "leadership". If Auburn wins without Cam, just two years after his departure, I think that will really hammer the point home. 964. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 2:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol, just as I question Cam's downfield accuracy he drops a beautiful downfield TD bomb to Ginn. Granted he was WIDE ASS OPEN, it was a good pass. Let me clarify: Cam needs to work on his downfield consistency. 965. JG24FanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cam is maturing very well this season, but it's still an unknown how good he can be in the Playoffs. I don't want to get my hopes up, but i'm a bit exciting by the prospect of Carolina making it to the post this year. 966. Sean posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (3) (4) I hate memes. When was intellectual discourse replaced by lazily using and endlessly repeating the right cultural reference at the exact moment to essentially pander to one's friends instead of thinking? This seems to be infecting every aspect of global culture, especially our politics. Suddenly almost everywhere, there are "good guys" and "bad guys", cultural touchstones and acceptable targets. It's become perceived as clever and witty to trash acceptable targets without any argument whatsoever. Paul Krugmans are being replaced by Keith Olbermanns. George Wills are being replaced by Ann Coulters. Now that almost everything in the United States is a niche taste, people are finding it more and more clever to spit the same things back and forth at each other within a given niche. Furthermore, anyone who holds the wrong opinions, likes the wrong pop culture, likes the wrong hobbies is not merely ostracized but considered a morally deficient person. People don't seem to be ostracized for which high school "clique" they belong to as MUCH (although I will remain the butt of jokes for life thanks to those videos) but social cliques seem to have been replaced by hobbyist cliques, which may even be more cliquish because they're more well-defined. I'm not a Nickelback fan, or Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, etc..., but my point stands. It has become okay to just insult these people for no reason and it is somehow STILL considered cool or edgy when it's really just boring. I wouldn't have even heard of Bieber if not for people insulting him in comments on every single rock video on YouTube. And then it follows that people treat anyone who like these people as "unwashed masses", and it kind of makes me sick. Similarly here, you insult Danica Patrick, Kyle Busch, Kevin Harvick, whoever, and you don't even have to justify it. There are a few people who used such putdowns sparingly and were indeed witty in so doing: Roger Ebert is an example. Parker Johnstone is another (watch any of his videos where he's making fun of Tora Takagi during the 2001 CART season, and imagine any announcer talking like this today at all...he's hilarious, most people aren't). But it seems like 90% of people on the Internet do this and it turns me off. For instance, I LOVE the AV Club's pop culture articles, but HATE the vast majority of the commenters who play a hipper-than-thou game in every single thread. I understand that my exceedingly long and repetitive posts also turn people off however. When done correctly, you can say more in a few sentences than I do in a few paragraphs. Most people think they are capable of this but aren't. It gets worse. I personally tend to believe that there are no forms of media or genres or forms of racing that are superior to others, even if there are some that I like more than others. However, when I offered my favorite TV shows and listed "Calvin and Hobbes" as one of my favorite books on my biographical profile for the Ultimate Typing Championship, these were not included because as you know, real intellectuals look down on TV as the opiate of the people, even though there are good and bad examples of every medium, of every genre, and no kind of comic can possibly count as literature even if "Calvin and Hobbes" is probably more literate than at least 3/4 of books. This is the extreme example of bashing things for no reason. People making sure to list only the right things to appear properly sophisticated when in my opinion the TRULY sophisticated person realizes there can be good or bad in everything, regardless of form. Go watch Dave Grohl's SXSW speech where he praises "Gangnam Style". I at least have to give Nirvana props for being among the first bands to admit they liked "trash" just as much as they liked "art". Now compared to the vast majority of people on the Internet, people here DO make more nuanced arguments for things but whenever I see people just trash things, especially when they are acceptable targets within a niche (i.e. David calling "rap music" an oxymoron just because he doesn't like it; I'm not a big fan either but I wouldn't not call it music, or people in a rap community trashing NASCAR, which is equally likely). A lot of my musical tastes are very similar to David's. I love big, dumb arena rock bands like Boston and Journey, but I hate people just trashing things because they know they'll be acceptable targets more. The Nickelback thing in particular is perplexing, because I don't see how they're better or worse than DOZENS of other post-grunge acts that are equally generic, equally repetitive, and equally annoying. They've become the acceptable target just because they're more popular than Puddle of Mudd, I guess. I would say the vast majority of post-grunge acts rip off Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam more than they rip off Kurt Cobain. Cobain was harder to copy especially because of his punk influences that many of the post-grunge bands probably weren't listening to much, while most of Pearl Jam's influences were mainstream '70s rock which meant that they had many, many more mainstream ripoff artists. The only post-grunge bands I would say ripped off Nirvana more than Pearl Jam were Bush and Everclear (and Everclear especially was even MORE repetitive than Nickelback, at least in their singles, but Art Alexakis was a pretty good lyricist at least). Most of the rest (Candlebox, Creed, Collective Soul, Staind, Nickelback, Hinder, etc...) sound more like Pearl Jam. Some of the bands erroneously classified as post-grunge have no element of a grunge sound to them (Matchbox 20, Third Eye Blind...) and sound like they were influenced more by R.E.M., the Replacements, or the Smithereens. Most of them have a few good songs, the earlier ones like Collective Soul especially. Just not nearly as many good songs as the real grunge bands did. I guess my main comment here is: More content, less snark. After all, plenty of more respected bands were just as repetitive as Nickelback (AC/DC, Boston, Coldplay, and the Ramones are some of the first that come to mind). Rock critics, who have a history of being snarkier and less witty than they think they are, have always had acceptable targets, and that includes bands that are respected now (Led Zeppelin, Queen, Rush). So to see the general population acting just as condescending as yesterday's rock critics, even if the music they're criticizing IS trash, makes me kind of sick. I know, I know, tl;dr. (One of my LEAST favorite Internet catch-phrases...) 967. David posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "i.e. David calling "rap music" an oxymoron just because he doesn't like it;" Whoa, there, you're picking on the wrong person/example. I actually have some respect for rap and the talent it takes to do it, but the actual act of rapping cannot be considered music. I understand that most rap songs do have an underlying melody, so that point is debatable. But I don't understand how rapping, which amounts to essentially talking rhythmically, can be construed as music. That's all I have against it. And yes, on the whole, I don't like rap music, but it's mainly because of its content. "I hate memes." Well, that escalated quickly. Just kidding. I know what you mean, and I definitely agree with you. The above example is one of the worst. 968. MStall41 posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Excellent post Sean, I agree with every word of that. 969. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How exactly can the Panthers be charged a timeout? Rivera challenged the ruling of down by contact, and the replay proved he wasn't. Even though Carolina did not clearly recover the ball, the ruling on the field was still overturned. 970. JG24FanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) 8 in a row for Carolina!! 971. BON GORDON posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) At least no one has said anything bad about BON JOVI yet. Best band in the world as far as I'm concerned. Other rock bands just don't do it for me. Does that mean I don't like any other rock band....nope. I like Journey, Van Halen, Boston, Aerosmith, Def Leppard, Goo Goo Dolls, U2, and yes I even like Nickelback. 972. The Long Shot posted: 12.01.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm not a Nickelback fan, or Miley Cyrus, Justin Bieber, etc..., but my point stands. It has become okay to just insult these people for no reason and it is somehow STILL considered cool or edgy when it's really just boring." There's a difference between the haters of Nickelback and the haters of Cyrus/Bieber. People hate Nickelback primarily because of their music, which I personally don't think is enough to justify how much flak they have been handed during their career. For Cyrus and Bieber, it's less their music and more the way they act. I don't think I need to inform anyone of the controversies that Cyrus has been involved in, and Bieber seemingly always acts like a self-entitled dick. They are all but asking for this hate. 973. The Long Shot posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That being said, I agree with everything else you said there, Sean. 974. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Nickelback thing in particular is perplexing, because I don't see how they're better or worse than DOZENS of other post-grunge acts that are equally generic, equally repetitive, and equally annoying." It's not about seeing, it's about hearing. Their music for the most part is just bland, generic rock with no innovation involved whatsoever. "If Today Was Your Last Day" is their only song I even find tolerable. "Go watch Dave Grohl's SXSW speech where he praises "Gangnam Style". I at least have to give Nirvana props for being among the first bands to admit they liked "trash" just as much as they liked "art"." Dave Grohl is an artist in every sense of the word. "David calling "rap music" an oxymoron just because he doesn't like it" I agree that rap is music but I took what David said as a joke. "I would say the vast majority of post-grunge acts rip off Eddie Vedder and Pearl Jam more than they rip off Kurt Cobain." There's a difference between "ripping off" and "sounding like," but I would also add a third category in addition to that: "borrowers." The Beatles borrowed a lot of stuff from Chuck Berry and others, but they also built upon it substantially and packaged it differently. I think it's fair to say Chad Kroeger is "ripping off" Kurt Cobain in both image and vocal sound in a similar way to how Liam Gallagher ripped off John Lennon in the 1990s (Oasis is one of my favorite bands of all-time, but it's so obvious what Liam Gallagher was doing. Listen to some of their pre-mainstream stuff, his voice sounded more like Ian Brown of the Stone Roses than Lennon). I wouldn't say Nickelback is musically ripping off Nirvana though, because what they're doing really can't hold a candle to Nirvana. "Most of the rest (Candlebox, Creed, Collective Soul, Staind, Nickelback, Hinder, etc...) sound more like Pearl Jam." I have a similar opinion of many of those bands to what my opinion of Nickelback is, and it's even more strong of a feeling in some cases (Staind and Creed really stand out for having that generic post-grunge sound - I can't tell them apart really). "Some of the bands erroneously classified as post-grunge have no element of a grunge sound to them (Matchbox 20, Third Eye Blind...) and sound like they were influenced more by R.E.M., the Replacements, or the Smithereens." I think "post-grunge" has sort of become genericized to mean "alternative rock." 975. The Long Shot posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Vikings game nearly ended like the Auburn-Alabama game last night. Bears kicker Robbie Gould attempted a 66 yard field goal that came just a couple of yards short. Vikings returner Cordarrelle Patterson returned the kick for about 20 yards before being tackled. 976. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Patterson had a strong chance of returning that one seeing how great of a returner he's been for Minnesota. 977. Schroeder51 posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) I don't even bother with actively hating on music. If I don't like something, I just don't like it. Actively hating on it and going around everywhere posting about how much it sucks or how awful it is just seems like a huge waste of time. I personally can't stand Nickelback (or a lot of other modern rock groups in the slightest, but I'm not going to bother visiting every Youtube video of a Nickelback song to leave comments saying "THIS SUCKS!" Likewise, I am not a country music fan or a rap fan (I was pretty much turned off rap thanks to some neighbors I had who would blast it at full volume every weekend and refused to turn it down-forcing anything down someone's throat is going to make them most likely not enjoy it), but I have nothing against the music itself or people who actually like it. If you like a certain kind of music or a certain group that I myself may not like, more power to you! We all have different tastes in music because we are all unique individuals. We should be respectful of that, and instead the average person spends time bashing other people for their tastes. That's just sad. Myself, I mostly like vintage '60s and '70s music myself, maybe because I have older parents and that's what I grew up listening to. I've always loved vintage hard rock and heavy metal like Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, etc., and I like many of the poppier artists of that time period, like the Beatles or Elton John. I also have a taste for psychedelia and progressive rock; I quite like artists like Pink Floyd, the Moody Blues, Yes, and Genesis as well. And occasionally I enjoy the "dumber" arena rock of groups such as Grand Funk Railroad or Styx. When it comes to vintage music I think I have a pretty open mind. 978. joey2448 posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh man, these close Bears games are starting to wear on me...disappointed that they seemed to stop playing once they had a 10-pt lead. Now they're in OT (with who else, but the Vikes!) 979. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I guess my main comment here is: More content, less snark." I understand that sentiment as it pertains to music, but as far as sports go isn't snark part of the fun? The "us against y'all" mentality makes sports fun. When I was in high school--a Catholic school in Mobile, Alabama called McGill-Toolen--we had a public school rival, Murphy, which was located in the same part of town as we were. This was always our regular season ending game and we had an entire week devoted to essentially hating on Murphy. The Friday of the game was always called "Beat Murphy" day. During the day a senior would walk down the hall at any given time a yell at the top of his lungs "BEAT" and the entire floor would stop what they were doing, teachers included, and scream back "MURPHY". This would go on for several minutes. At the end of the day we would have a huge pep rally. One year one of the coaches got a panther, Murphy's mascot, stuffed animal and ripped it in half and threw stuffing all over the gym. Mobile is an old Civil War city and we have several artifacts spread throughout the city dedicated to that fact, including a cannon from the war. After the game itself, the students from the winning school would rush downtown to the cannon and paint it the colors of the winning school. This was completely ILLEGAL, but you know what? The cops just let us do it and often times directed traffic while we did it. The rivalry is so famous that one my senior a show called "Y'all vs. Us" on Fox Sports came down and broadcast our game on national TV. We even had a flyover from the United States Coast Guard. Now was any of that rational? Was there a really good reason for us the hate Murphy? No and our antics during the week went well beyond mere snark. It was good, ole fashioned hatred. And it was a hell of a lot of fun. That's why I don't get why people seem so hell bent on forcing objectivity on people on this site. It's completely irrational to hate Jimmie Johnson (even though I respect the man), but that's OK. He brings out passion in people and that's what sports are all about to the fans. Honestly, I'd rather people hate something just because they hate than I would people try to grasp for straws to try and come up with a reason as to why they hate something. 980. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The new AP poll is out. Top 5: 1) Florida State 2) Ohio State 3) Auburn 4) Alabama 5) Missouri Auburn actually got two number 1 votes and Ohio State got none. We'll see if the BCS rankings are the same when they come out later tonight. 981. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I know it's been said a thousand times in a thousand places, but Adrian Peterson truly is the modern day Barry Sanders. 982. Sean posted: 12.01.2013 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's not about seeing, it's about hearing. Their music for the most part is just bland, generic rock with no innovation involved whatsoever." I agree. It's not that they don't deserve to be criticized. It's just that people seem to criticize them for no reason and think it's witty, and pretty much don't criticize most of the other bands that did the exact same thing at the exact time. And them being repetitive by itself isn't a valid criticism. The Ramones were ridiculously repetitive. The criticism should be that they're not innovative and rip other bands off. "There's a difference between "ripping off" and "sounding like," but I would also add a third category in addition to that: "borrowers." The Beatles borrowed a lot of stuff from Chuck Berry and others, but they also built upon it substantially and packaged it differently. I think it's fair to say Chad Kroeger is "ripping off" Kurt Cobain in both image and vocal sound in a similar way to how Liam Gallagher ripped off John Lennon in the 1990s (Oasis is one of my favorite bands of all-time, but it's so obvious what Liam Gallagher was doing. Listen to some of their pre-mainstream stuff, his voice sounded more like Ian Brown of the Stone Roses than Lennon). I wouldn't say Nickelback is musically ripping off Nirvana though, because what they're doing really can't hold a candle to Nirvana." I would just call Oasis a Beatles ripoff. They weren't the only ones (Badfinger!) Well yeah, ripoffs will rarely hold a candle to the original act, although some are more artistic than others. I would still call them ripoffs. They can't hold a candle to the grunge acts *because* they are innovative. And I still think they (and most of those other bands) ripped off Pearl Jam more. I understand every band has influences. Notice I didn't mention the Foo Fighters at all. They didn't rip off Nirvana in my view (which Bush and Everclear did), nor did they rip off Pearl Jam (which I'd say Candlebox, Creed, and Nickelback did). I wasn't calling any of those bands significant artists. I was mainly criticizing people who insult them for no reason and seem to have double-standards by seeming to only pick on the most popular artists. Oasis were certainly a more artistic ripoff than the many uninnovative post-grunge bands. "I think "post-grunge" has sort of become genericized to mean "alternative rock."" Yeah, and that's just wrong, since I tend to think most of the '80s alternative that has nothing to do with grunge is BETTER than the vast majority of grunge and post-grunge. 983. joey2448 posted: 12.01.2013 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow....Chicago just stopped playing after holding a 10-pt lead with one quarter to go. Their rush defense is still horrid. But the thing I'm most pissed about is that coach Marc Trestman went with a 47-yd FG on SECOND DOWN!!! With like four minutes left in OT! I mean, try for at least a few more yards on second and third down before trying a FG! Now, granted, Robbie Gould can usually kick that distance pretty easily, he's a great kicker, but c'mon man!!! 984. murb posted: 12.01.2013 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And yes, on the whole, I don't like rap music, but it's mainly because of its content." The thing that has to be taken into consideration is that most of these rappers grow up in pretty horrible neighborhoods and have terrible family lives. It's often misunderstood by the media that they are trying to be "shocking" or whatever with their lyrics, but the fact is that most of them are talking about things they've seen on the streets and things they've actually had to deal with. NWA is a good example. They're undoubtedly filthy with their lyrics, but if you can get past all of that and actually look at what their saying, it's a pretty accurate interpretation of the world that they grew up around. With that said though, yes, it can get extremely annoying to hear people like Lil Wayne constantly yammering on about doing drugs and whatnot. I'm a hip hop fan mainly because it just fascinates me. It's fascinating to hear how they piece together beats and samples. And like I said, contrary to more traditional song structures, it's interesting because in the lyrics these people are usually telling stories about their actual lives (Notorious BIG was the master at this). I understand that hip hop is a hard listen for a lot of people, but I just try to listen to it like I'm watching a movie or reading a book or something. It can be really interesting if you can get past that there will probably be a lot of profanity and violent references. And Sean, I agree with you in that most post-grunge bands are incredibly repetitive, not just Nickelback (Puddle Of Mudd is a great example you used). I just trash Nickelback because of their arrogance and laziness. I guess probably another big thing about them that I didn't mention before is that I've also seen several videos and stories of them walking off stage (at HUGE shows) just because people in the audience are being jerks. As an aspiring musician that is in a band that plays shows, that is an insult. If you take your music seriously and work your ass off to perfect it, you play the show. No matter what. You have the power on stage. You're in control. So if you're gonna quit just because some people in the crowd are acting up, it's an insult to the thousands of other musicians around the world who would do anything just to get a FEW people to listen to their music. Not every show is gonna go perfectly, so to just quit when the going gets tough (especially when you have thousands in your audience) is a huge turnoff for me. One of my all time favorite bands is this old psychedelic/funk/punk band called The Minutemen. Early in their careers, they played a bunch of shows (not nearly as big as Nickelback's, mind you) where front row people would be SPITTING IN THEIR FACES. But they always finished their set, because they worked too hard on their music to just let the opportunity dwindle away because of a few tools in the crowd. So if those guys can keep playing in front of 30 people in a dingy club when they are getting spit wads lobbed in their face, any other musician in a similar situation should have enough integrity and determination to finish their set, especially if they are on a huge stage like Nickelback was. If you are truly passionate about your craft, you will never let the bad times bring you down. And it's not just Nickelback that has done this either, by the way. I saw this story a while ago where Bieber cancelled his show somewhere because it wasn't a sellout crowd (to tell the truth, that one actually pisses me off more than Nickelback quitting on stage - at least Nickelback intended on playing the show). It just angers me so much to see how these people take it for granted like that. 985. Sean posted: 12.01.2013 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "That's why I don't get why people seem so hell bent on forcing objectivity on people on this site." I don't think "us vs. them" is very fun anywhere, I guess. So much of it seems arbitrary. Look at high schools, where school boundaries are ridiculously gerrymandered yet people are supposed to root for their high school and boo the high school in the neighboring district, even if two people happen to live on opposite sides of a district boundary. It seems so silly. And when people start to feel like they're superior to others for any reason, I think they're on the wrong track. Maybe this is just naturally how subcultures form. I've never gotten it. I was the kind of person who would have WANTED to root for my neighboring school district just because these distinctions seem so bizarre. I've certainly attacked entire subcultures myself and I'm not proud of it. I understand being a fan of something, but I guess I no longer understand being an "anti-fan". This isn't to say there aren't a bunch of race car drivers I can't stand, but I don't really care THAT much if they happen to win. Okay, I can understand not liking something, but I can't understand not liking something just to fit in with a group that likes something else. In my initial post, I assume people thought I sounded hypocritical, not wanting to be seen as smug and writing what probably ended up being a very smug post. I'm not criticizing people hating things. I hate some things myself, but I don't really see how it's fun, and I don't really see how it's okay to hate something for no reason. If you openly admitted you hated Murphy solely due to some quirk of geography, I think that's better than not having a reason. However, I don't want to be perceived as acting superior at all so I'll say that I don't particularly care if others hate something for "fun", just that I don't really understand how it's fun myself. Obviously my sentiments are turning others off, so I'll probably just stop this here. And I'm SURE I'm going to say something hypocritical that contradicts what I've just said (bashing a certain driver or something) in the next year, so you're all welcome to comment whenever I do this. 986. Sean posted: 12.01.2013 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "They can't hold a candle to the grunge acts *because* they are innovative." That was obviously supposed to read, "aren't innovative". 987. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.01.2013 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The new AP poll is out. Top 5: 1) Florida State 2) Ohio State 3) Auburn 4) Alabama 5) Missouri" I agree with the AP The way i see it if FSU and OSU win out: NC title game for them. If either loses it'll be either Auburn or Missouri because one will win the SEC title game and other will not. Now if all hell breaks loose if FSU and OSU lose then i'd say FSU vs Auburn or Missouri. OSU could barely beat Michigan (a team that sucks). Auburn needed "luck" (detracters of Auburn would say that) too beat Georgia and Alabama (so what really, they won. who cares). BTW when was the last time the Missouri football team was any good? 988. JG24FanForever posted: 12.01.2013 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Denver has made a brilliant turn around tonight. 989. joey2448 posted: 12.01.2013 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I've got a list for all of us to post in the racing offseason! Favorite current female racers. My list 1. Johanna Long 2. Simona di Silvestro 3. Kenzie Ruston 4. Mackena Bell 5. Kasey Kahne....oh wait, he's a dude??? 6. Kristy & Anna Berington (wait, is this list exclusively for auto racing?) . . . 236. Danica Patrick (I used to like her more, but this year just wore on me, especially FOX's coverage of her) ...Milka Duno isn't even on this list, b/c from what I've heard and seen (and I could be way off base), her personality is like that of a pissed off cat in heat. Plus she's a terrible driver. Note that S***** W****** isn't on this list, b/c he isn't "a little girl." 990. David posted: 12.01.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In response to Sean: I don't hate on something to fit in. Ever. Unless it's a high school thing like Zackary Shawn said. But outside of that, I would never hate on anything or anyone just to fit in with the crowd. If anything, I tend to intentionally not go with the fads or fashions, or whatever. For example: I despised "Gangnam Style", when it first came out. Especially that stupid horse dancing move people would do whenever they heard it. Fortunately, that song has had its decline in popularity since. If I dislike something, it's because I decide I want to, not because it's in vogue. That's all I have to say. "And it's not just Nickelback that has done this either, by the way. I saw this story a while ago where Bieber cancelled his show somewhere because it wasn't a sellout crowd (to tell the truth, that one actually pisses me off more than Nickelback quitting on stage - at least Nickelback intended on playing the show)." Yeah, Bieber's move there was far worse. He completely disregarded the plans of everyone who did buy tickets to his show just because a few seats weren't filled. That's pretty disgusting. 991. David posted: 12.01.2013 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Note that S***** W****** isn't on this list, b/c he isn't "a little girl."" But he has gotten his hair pulled. 992. 12345Dude posted: 12.01.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone that cheers for a good NFL team and complains excessively needs to lighten up. Did anyone watch that Bills game? Yes we stop the Falcons on 3 down & goal. It's 4th down! They won't tie the game! We take a 15 yard penalty for 3rd & Goal on the 17 (even though we stopped them.) = Pass Interference on Bills on 3rd and goal on the 17. Falcons 1st & Goal on the 1 yard line. They score on the first play. OK the bills get the ball. It's tied and 2 minutes left. Yes! Stevie Johnson wins us the game! Amazing pass and catch! Nope fumble to the other team. Ok we get the ball in OT win the coin toss. One play later from the Stevie Johnson fumble..... OT Bills yes Scott Chandler wins us the game. Nope fumble to the other team. Falcons win! This has been going on since I've been watching 2001. I keep hoping for 1 playoff run but it's just so hard to keep up hope. I can't count the number of games I have seen like this. 993. 12345Dude posted: 12.01.2013 - 8:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to agree with murb about Nickleback songs. Not to bring a whole form of music down but a good amount (not all by any means) of country singers/bands kind of sound the same to me. Murb what did you think of american idiot? It was written in 2004 so I was curious your thoughts because it's pretty popular. My favorite songs are Holliday, Boulevard of broken dreams, wake me up when september ends, & are we the waiting (basically most of the really popular ones.) That album really has a sad story to it, one that no one should have to go threw. I really like dookie also. 994. Paul posted: 12.01.2013 - 8:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "BTW when was the last time the Missouri football team was any good?" Missouri has generally been a good football team ever since Gary Pinkel became the head coach back in 2001. In 13 seasons under Pinkel, Missouri has posted four 10+ win seasons (including this season), has twice participated in the Big 12 Conference Championship Game (losing both times to Oklahoma in 2007 and 2008, with Oklahoma participating in the National Championship Game in the latter season), were declared the non-consensus national champions in 2007 by various media outlets, and posted seven consecutive winning seasons during a time when Oklahoma, Texas, and Texas Tech were running rampant in the Big 12 (2005-2011). While I think that they largely benefited by being in the weaker division in the Big 12 all those years (Nebraska was really their only competition for the division title), and their first season in the SEC was a disappointment, I'm not surprised at how well they've done this season because they've been a good team for quite some time. Like Texas A&M, I think we're starting to hear more about them now than in previous seasons because they're playing in the SEC, which is arguably the toughest conference in all of college football. Before they were a good-sized fish in a big pond; now they're a very big fish in the largest pond. 995. cjs3872 posted: 12.01.2013 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of the NFL, how much do you think Mike Tomlin and the Pittsburgh Steelers are going to be fined for what Tomlin did in Baltimore Thursday night when he was ON THE FIELD during Jacoby Jones' KO return following a Steeler score, and may have had a part on Jones not scoring. If he did, then he personally cost the Ravens four points. If what I heard is true, Tomlin is facing a six-figure fine, and the Steelers organization is not only facing a six-figure fine, but a loss of a draft pick in next year's draft, which would be deserved, because that was a low-ball move by a key member of what has been one of the classiest and most successful sports organizations over the last 40 years. That could have determined the outcome of that game, and with it, determine the last playoff spot, currently held by the Ravens. Frankly, I think a suspension of at least one game should not be out of the question for what Tomlin did, if for no other reason, to strongly discourage anyone else from trying such a stunt again. 996. The Sound posted: 12.01.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My favorite band is referenced in my username. Not terribly well known, though, so I would not expect anyone to guess correctly. Another of my favorite bands, Anberlin, has a notorious YouTube troll named atomicfriendo that posts "Anberlin sucks" on dozens of their videos. He has no life. 997. 12345Dude posted: 12.01.2013 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow my post seems stupid after reading Sean's. Makes you think differently, and in a good way. Country sounds similar but so does others obviously. I said Nickleback just because I don't listen to music much at all and they stuck out in that regard out of bands I've listned to. I think people do cheer for things like high school teams because "it's fun to fit in" and "everyone else is doing it around you". Just like cheering for any local, popular sports team. There no different then any others and if were fans we have no output in the game. Same with things like when crocks (shoes) were popular (have you actually seen them?) and then died(weren't cool anymore) . Or boy bands (Jonas Brothers, Backstreet boys etc.) random rise and fall. Yes there looks draw people but the "fall" usually happens within weeks. People age drastically not within a few weeks. And I can never remember a boy band dying because they changed their style of music. Some boy bands can grow from their music but not the majority. 998. 12345Dude posted: 12.01.2013 - 10:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) (continued from first post was on ps3 for last post with character limit) You can come up with a lot of fads if you really think about it. Obviously you can still "fit in" liking stuff most people do because you like the product..... Instead of "their my team" even though like in the NFL they fit in with other teams except success/failure (yes you can like/dislike certain people on teams, but 99% of the people in Buffalo like the bills the whole time they lived hear and players/customs have certainly changed)Fads I think show if they are popular because your friends/peers like them or you generally like them based on the actual product - by how long they are popular. With the only exception I can think of local sports teams (popular leagues not like soccer or lacrosse, for the most past.) That's just my opinion because if you truly enjoy something for the actual product you'll stick with it when it's not popular / won't leave it when your friends/peers leave it, for no other reason other than your friends/peers don't like it anymore. Just my personal opinion. Now that I think of it maybe that's why the nfl is so popular. It's a mixture of both. You have the fact that friends/peers root for the home team so, so do you. Plus you have the factor of enjoying the product. For example local nfl teams are very popular compared to a local lacrosse team. Or maybe I'm just thinking too hard............ 999. cjs3872 posted: 12.01.2013 - 11:34 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Guys, as much as we bag on the officiating in NASCAR, nothing was worse from an officiating standpoint than the way the end of tonight's Giants/Redskins game was handled, because that was one of the biggest officiating screw-up of all-time, regardless of the sport. 1000. DB1995 posted: 12.02.2013 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Did any of you "That 70's show" fans know that the character that played Laurie died in August? 1001. murb posted: 12.02.2013 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Murb what did you think of american idiot?" I like it okay, but definitely not as much as I like Kerplunk, Dookie, and Insomniac (Insomniac is probably my favorite album by them). I'm just not as much of a fan of their newer stuff as I am of their classic stuff. I didn't really like 21st Century Breakdown at all, and the Uno/Dos/Tre series was hit and miss with me. 1002. joey2448 posted: 12.02.2013 - 4:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Agree, cjs. That was an huge mistake by the refs, and I'm glad Al Michaels and Chris Collinsworth were man enough to call them out on that on air. 1003. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.02.2013 - 8:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK. I'll admit I'm biased to the core, but here is why I think Auburn should go to the National Championship if they win the SEC Championship even if Ohio State wins the Big 10 Championship. Auburn has beaten the #1 team, the #7 team, the #24 team, and the #25 team. If we win on Saturday we will have beaten the #5 team. That would be FIVE top 25 victories including 3 top 10 teams, 2 top five teams, and the #1 team/2 time defending BCS National Champions. 9 of Auburn's opponents are now bowl eligible. Yes, we have a loss...the #6 ranked LSU Tigers, a team that has ONE home loss the last several years...On a Saturday night...In Death Valley, the most feared place in college football...in the middle of a freaking monsoon... Ohio State beat #16 and #24. Those were the only two ranked teams they even PLAYED, much less beat. SIX of their opponents have a LOSING record, half the schedule. One of those opponents, Northwestern, was the #16 team when they played them, so Ohio State really only has 1 win against a ranked opponent that subsequently had a winning season and can only have 2 at most after the Big 10 Championship. They let a 1-11 California team score 34 points on them and a 4-8 Illinois team score 35 points on them. If the BCS just wants to look at records, then fine, send Ohio State to the championship. But if they actually want the BCS Championship game to be a competitive game between two formidable opponents, then they have no choice but to send Auburn. Sometimes they have no justifiable choice, but to send a weaker team to the championship (see: Alabama vs Notre Dame). That's simply not the case this year. 1004. Jim Davis posted: 12.02.2013 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "OK. I'll admit I'm biased to the core..." Just out of curiosity, if the situation was reversed and Auburn had the undefeated but undistinguished record would you admit that Auburn shouldn't play for the championship? I'm an Ohio State alumnus and I fully expected Auburn to jump Ohio State in the BCS rankings. At least in the computer portion which considers strength of schedule but that didn't happen. 1005. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.02.2013 - 10:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Just out of curiosity, if the situation was reversed and Auburn had the undefeated but undistinguished record would you admit that Auburn shouldn't play for the championship?" Probably not, which is why it's a good thing I'm not a position to help get to decide. I will say this though...I think it would be very hard for a team like Auburn or any SEC school to have a "undefeated but undistinguished" record. It just seems like at any give time 1/5 of the top 25 are SEC schools and, for the most part, they have all played each other. Right now there are 7, including 3 of the top 5. And of those 7, 4 of them are in Auburn's division and a 5th is our second biggest rival. And of the 7 Auburn beat 3, lost to 1, and will still play 1. The SEC, and the SEC West in particular, is really hard nose football. If Ohio State loses though, there is no doubt that the winner of the SEC Championship should play for the National Championship. 1006. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.02.2013 - 11:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @post #994 Thanks Paul. I don't remember Mizzu being that good back in the early 2000's. I view Mizzu more of a baseketball school then a football school, their basketball team has had moments of brillence. BTW a Houston Texans player is saying the NE Patriots "cheated" too beat them. Eh, why would the NE need to cheat to beat the Texans? THEY SUCK!!!!!! They have lost 10 in a row, why would they need too cheat? Excuses. 1007. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.02.2013 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (2) (4) I'm just gonna come right out and say it: Ohio State isn't even a Top 10 team. They have had trouble beating mediocre Big 10 teams. If they play FSU, they will lose 57-0. Then they will probably be awarded the championship after the NCAA strips the title from FSU for the way the school and Tallahassee covered up the Jameis Winston allegations (they are just allegations for now and I want to hear more before saying anything about Winston himself, but the way the school and city protected him and intimidated the accuser was beyond shameful) making them the least deserving champions since the Nationwide #3 team in 2013. 1008. murb posted: 12.02.2013 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Burton is gonna drive a limited schedule and be the test driver for MWR. He'll drive their new #66 car in select races. I don't know how I feel about this. My favorite driver driving for my least favorite team. Hmm. Maybe I'll just have to pretend he's driving the old TropArctic #66 car that Dick Trickle drove, or something. At any rate though, I'm happy that he'll be driving at least a little bit next year. 1009. startandparkfan posted: 12.02.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #56 becomes #66 with Jeff Burton driving a limited schedule, Michael Waltrip will drive in the Daytona 500. 1010. David posted: 12.02.2013 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As long as we're making a temporary return to racing discussion, here's two more bits of news: - Trent Owens has been hired as Aric Almirola's crew chief at RPM. - Dollar General has added 10 more races to its sponsorship of Matt Kenseth. 1011. The Long Shot posted: 12.02.2013 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Open wheel news and notes: --Not sure whether anyone else reported this, but Sebastian Bourdais will drive the #11 for KVSH Racing next year, replacing Tony Kanaan. --Carlos Munoz will run full-time for Andretti Autosport in IndyCar in 2014. I knew he was running full-time, but I wasn't sure for which team. --Mike Conway will run the #20 for Ed Carpenter in all the road/street events in IndyCar next season. --Lloyd Read will run full-time in Indy Lights next season for owner Bryan Herta. And here is a preliminary driver/number/team lineup for next season in Formula One: Red Bull 1-Sebastian Vettel 2-Daniel Ricciardo Mercedes 3-Lewis Hamilton 4-Nico Rosberg Ferrari 5-Fernando Alonso 6-Kimi Raikkonen Lotus 7-Romain Grosjean 8-Pastor Maldonado McLaren 9-Jenson Button 10-Kevin Magnussen Force India 11-TBA 12-TBA Sauber 14-TBA 15-TBA Toro Rosso 16-Jean-Eric Vergne 17-Daniil Kvyat Williams 18-Felipe Massa 19-Valtteri Bottas Marussia 20-Jules Bianchi 21-TBA Caterham 22-TBA 23-TBA 1012. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.02.2013 - 8:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Force India 11-TBA 12-TBA" From what I'm hearing, Nico Hulkenberg and Sergio Perez are the two likely candidates to get the seats. I think they are the two most deserving, as they are both huge talents. "Marussia 20-Jules Bianchi 21-TBA" It sounds like Max Chilton will get the ride, as he has immense funding from his father. The only other candidate is Rodolfo Gonzalez who, from what I heard, is no better of a driver than Max. 1013. cjs3872 posted: 12.02.2013 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just saw a article on Autoweek's site that said that Chevrolet had Hendrick Motorsports develop the Chevrolet Impala SS that was raced throughout the 2013 season. If so, and I have no reason to doubt it, no wonder Hendrick seemed to have such an edge, especially over the other Chevrolet teams, since Chevrolet effectively hand-picked them to develop the car, instead of forming a partnership between most of the top-tier Chevrolet teams. I think that next year, some of the other Chevrolet teams will be closer to Hendrick, but everyone wondered why Hendrick had such an edge, especially over the other Chevrolet teams, including the Stewart-Haas Racing team, which is effectively a Hendrick satellite team, that's why. They were picked by Chevrolet to develop the car for the 2013 season. 1014. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.02.2013 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even if they were handed picked by Chevy, HMS (especially the #48) weren't certain too win the championship until the #20 bunch choked at PIR. The other Chevy teams will catch up, matter of time. And that time is smaller because of NASCAR allowing the teams too test. 1015. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.02.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I just saw a article on Autoweek's site that said that Chevrolet had Hendrick Motorsports develop the Chevrolet Impala SS" Was it the Chevy Impala SS used up until 2013, or the Chevy SS used in 2013? 1016. cjs3872 posted: 12.02.2013 - 9:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was the Gen-6 version used in 2013, Zack. When I was referring to Chevrolet having HMS develop the Impala, I was referring to the Gen-6 version used in 2013. And @1014, I think we saw evidence of some of the other GM teams catching up near the end of the season, because the Hendrick cars, as a group, weren't as dominant, though the 48 and 88 were certainly as good as anyone. Remember that Kevin Harvick won twice during the Chase for Richard Childress, and that the EGR cars were competitive more often than the results would say, including a second place finish for Jamie McMurray at Kentucky and several near-misses for Juan Montoya, especially at Dover, when he was two laps from winning. Note that I'm not including short tracks, road courses, and plate track, as the car is not as big a factor at those places, and of course, McMurray did win at Talladega. Of course, we don't know what SHR would have done, since their only consistent threat (Tony Stewart) was out due to injury, although Ryan Newman did win for them at Indy and Stewart won that race at Dover that Montoya was two laps from winning. But Hendrick had a big edge for much of the season, but that edge definitely closed as the season wore on. 1017. DB1995 posted: 12.02.2013 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Im glad Burton is gonna drive part-time next year, he could had accepted a full time job for somewhere like TBR and ran 30th every week, but at MWR I think top 10s aren't out of reach. He was a lot better this season than the stats show. 1018. cjs3872 posted: 12.03.2013 - 12:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll take that a step further about Burton and MWR, DB1995. As Brian Vickers showed at Loudon, a win isn't totally out of the question, especially if Burton runs at least one of the races at Loudon, because he could have won there this summer had things fallen his way in the race Vickers won. While I don't think Burton can do as well as Vickers and Mark Martin did before age finally caught up with him (and he still almost won at Michigan in August), Burton can still be competitive on a certain kind of track under the right circumstances. Now with Burton having found his destination for 2014, the question among the veteran drivers is, where will Bobby Labonte land in 2014. Frankly, I think there are a number of drivers, and I think Labonte is one of them, that may be waiting until the second half of the season next year to see what's going to happen with the #21 car, because I still think that car might open up in the latter portion of the season next year, though it might only be for 4-6 races at that point in the season (they're only slated to run 12, unless I'm mistaken), and that's a quality car. If something happens regarding Trevor Bayne and his MS, heaven forbid, and that car opens up, that's going to be a car that quite a number of drivers are going to want to get into, even if it's only for a handful of races. 1019. joey2448 posted: 12.03.2013 - 12:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I gotta say, I'm starting to really look forward to 2015, when NBC returns to cover NASCAR races (of course, I'll probably be let down like so many other things). Jeff Behnke, who worked in NASCAR production for over two decades at Turner Sports, was named to head the day-to-day operations of the group that will air races on NBC and NBC Sports Network. If someone like Behnke, who was in charge of broadcasts from the "Golden Days" of NASCAR is put in charge, this makes me think the broadcasts will be much better than the clowns at FOX and the incompetence at ESPN (save for Allen Bestwick and Dr. Jerry Punch). Now, if only they can coax Bob Jenkins out of that damn IMS booth and into the NBC booth. 1020. Scott. B posted: 12.03.2013 - 4:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS, there is a big question mark over Brian Vickers as well as Bayne, since the blood clotting issues can return and require treatment that takes months to complete. Then, in spite of his closing out 2013 with a win, you have Denny Hamlin with a back injury in his medical history, which makes fans hold their breath every time he crashes hard. To a lesser degree, there's Junior with his concussion issues that will be under scrutiny due to their cumulative effect, and Smoke with his leg injury that is sounding like it won't be 100% rehabilitated by Daytona. So, yes, there could potentially be good seats open on a temp basis next year. Burton, in fact, may be a bit of an insurance policy on Vickers. In case of an extended absence by Vickers, Jeff could take over that seat while someone else (Mikey?) fills the part time dates in the 66. 1021. Scott. B posted: 12.03.2013 - 4:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as Bobby Labonte, I would think someone would make an offer for the Daytona 500 to have the champion's provisional in their pocket if needed. After that, though, DNQ's aren't likely to be a big issue again until the Brickyard comes around. 1022. David posted: 12.03.2013 - 10:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Stewart will be on the cover of NASCAR '14. He beat out Jeff Gordon in the final round, accumulating 69% of the votes. I suppose that's only fair, considering his injury and all. 1023. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.03.2013 - 11:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Tony Stewart will be on the cover of NASCAR '14. He beat out Jeff Gordon in the final round, accumulating 69% of the votes. I suppose that's only fair, considering his injury and all." Last cover Tony was on was NASCAR 07 (i think). 1024. We need more Onion posted: 12.03.2013 - 12:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR 07? My one has Sadler on it. 1025. David posted: 12.03.2013 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Last cover Tony was on was NASCAR 07 (i think)." It was actually NASCAR 08. The game had the 2007 season on it, so I think that's what threw you off. 1026. Smiff_2 posted: 12.03.2013 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There were 1,611 lead changes with the older Car of Tomorrow in 2012, but only 1,033 during the just-completed season. That's 578 fewer passes for the lead, a 35.9% reduction." That was taken from an article by the Augusta Chronicle. All I can say is; "Yup, that sounds about right. Glad 2013 is OVER" 1027. 83andJoe posted: 12.03.2013 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congrats to the webmaster on getting Toyota Series results on the site! 1028. 18fan posted: 12.03.2013 - 2:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There were more green flag passes in 2013 than in 2012, and by a significant amount. But, as already mentioned, there were fewer lead changes, also by a substantial margin. 1029. murb posted: 12.03.2013 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR 07? My one has Sadler on it." I like Sadler, but I still have no idea why they chose him for that cover. 1030. David posted: 12.03.2013 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Huge shoutout to riven3d as well, for sending the results to the webmaster. 1031. We need more Onion posted: 12.03.2013 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HUGE Kudos to riven3d and the webmaster. Time to get some knowledge. 1032. David posted: 12.03.2013 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of note: The results are currently only from 2011-2013, so I suspect they have not obtained the results dating back to 2007 yet (the series actually began in 2004, as a joint venture between NASCAR and OCESA, but NASCAR became the sole sanctioning body in 2007). 1033. 18fan posted: 12.03.2013 - 4:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Swan Racing has announced that they will run two cars next year, with Cole Whitt and Parker Kligerman driving. 1034. DB1995 posted: 12.03.2013 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Glad to see both Kligerman and Whitt getting full time rides, only one concern. A new 2nd team ,moving to a new race shop , 2 rookie drivers all in one off season 1035. David posted: 12.03.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Swan Racing has announced that they will run two cars next year, with Cole Whitt and Parker Kligerman driving." Is the team ready for that? I'm extremely happy that Kligerman and Whitt are getting their respective big chances, but I question if Swan Racing is ready for expansion. 1036. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.03.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't play video games all that often, but I do like the NASCAR games although they took a nose dive there for a bit. Really liked NASCAR The Game: Inside Line, but it still wasn't my favorite. I wish they would make the new game a mixture between NASCAR Thunder 2004 and NASCAR 2005: Chase for the Cup. 4 series (modified, trucks, Nationwide, Sprint Cup), signing contracts with existing teams, owning your own team, hiring drivers/crews, drivers retiring, repairing damaged cars. That's what I would like to see. 1037. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.03.2013 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, the "total team control" concept used in 06 and 07 was pretty neat, but I can live without it. 1038. webmaster posted: 12.03.2013 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) @1032: riven3d did an excellent job compiling the Mexico series results prior to 2011, but the series at that time wasn't tracking a considerable amount of the information we've become accustomed to seeing for other NASCAR series. Still, the results prior to 2011 may get into the database at some point. 1039. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.03.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I wish they would make the new game a mixture between NASCAR Thunder 2004 and NASCAR 2005: Chase for the Cup. 4 series (modified, trucks, Nationwide, Sprint Cup), signing contracts with existing teams, owning your own team, hiring drivers/crews, drivers retiring, repairing damaged cars. That's what I would like to see." I'd have more 2003/2004 then 2005. 2004 and 2005 for me are too easy. 2003 was perfect in terms of difficulty. Toke me 10 years too win a championship in NT 2003. In NT 2003 you also had more choices for sponsers and pit crews and being able too build equipment too help met sponser and pit crew expectations and keep them happy. NT 2004 you progress too fast up the sponser prestige chart and get sponsers that expect you win every week when you can only do best as 10th place (same for your pit crew). Too me NT 2003 was the best NASCAR console game every made. Mix 2003 and 2004 and IMHO you'd have one kick ass NASCAR game. 1040. David posted: 12.03.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "@1032: riven3d did an excellent job compiling the Mexico series results prior to 2011, but the series at that time wasn't tracking a considerable amount of the information we've become accustomed to seeing for other NASCAR series. Still, the results prior to 2011 may get into the database at some point." Ah, I see. I stand corrected. Excellent job on his part. Again, thanks for all you do for this site. 1041. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.03.2013 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd have more 2003/2004 then 2005." 2003 and 2004 didn't have 4 series, though. That was big to me. 1042. murb posted: 12.03.2013 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other Jeff Burton news, he's gonna be an analyst for NBC Sports. I'm really excited about that. I think he'll be a great addition. He was in the booth for a couple of IROC races back in the day and he was always insightful and interesting to listen to. So I'm looking forward to this. And about video games, my favorite Nascar game of all time is easily Thunder 2004. I think the actual game itself and the on track racing is the best of any Nascar game ever. It's realistic (the CPU will actually race you hard and can actually mess up themselves), but it also stays fun, unlike a lot of other games that focus too much on realism. I've probably spent at least 70 some odd hours playing that game over the years (and I still break it out every now and then). So much fun. 1043. murb posted: 12.03.2013 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And about Swan Racing, I'm really happy that Kligerman and Whitt are both getting shots at full time rides. I just hope this team isn't biting off more than they can chew with expansion. But apparently they are moving to a bigger shop, so hopefully that will help them out in this venture. 1044. Eric posted: 12.03.2013 - 10:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am not shocked that Jeff Burton is going to be an analyst for NBC. I remembered earlier this year saying that Jeff is going to be an analyst for NBC in 2015 despite CJS3872 think Jeff wasn't going to an analyst. 1045. Eric posted: 12.03.2013 - 10:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While Whitt and Kligerman are getting shots at full time rides, I will be shock if Swann racing will get 15 top 20's between the two driver. I am saying that because of equipment and pit crew. I am think the two drivers are trying to use their rides at Swann Racing to get better rides in the future. 1046. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 12.03.2013 - 11:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While we are speaking of NASCAR games, my favorite on the consoles is definitely NASCAR Thunder 2003, and NASCAR Thunder 2004 is right up there with it. NASCAR 06: Chase for the Cup was also good, but starting with NASCAR 07, they went downhill until EA stopped making the games. Strictly speaking of the PS3 only, I'd say my favorite one has been Inside Line. NASCAR 2011 was a good start and a good springboard to bounce off of for future games, but the game had too many noticeable faults, such as online glitches and the AI being slow even on the hardest difficulties. I like how Inside Line presents more of a challenge, and I also like how they included real life events that you can drive as the gamer as it reminds me of those Thunder Challenges on NT2003 and NT2004 (which also involved real life race situations). 1047. DB1995 posted: 12.04.2013 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NBC keeps sounding better and better by the day 1048. Schroeder51 posted: 12.04.2013 - 1:18 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) So now we have six drivers running for RotY next year: Dillon, Larson, Allgaier, Annett, Whitt, and Kligerman. When was the last time there were that many rookie candidates? It seems like it's been forever since we've had this many new faces entering the sport at one time. I think it's pretty safe to say that the 2014 RotY battle is going to be the best one we've seen in years. 1049. joey2448 posted: 12.04.2013 - 5:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think 2004 was the last time the Cup series had so many rookie contenders....Kasey Kahne, Brian Vickers, Scott Riggs, Brendan Gaughan, Johnny Sauter...so actually it was five. Also, I can't list off the top of my head the rookie class of every year in NASCAR history, but I think 1979 had a lot of rookies too. Dale Earnhardt, Terry Labonte, Geoff Bodine, Harry Gant, Joe Millikan to name a few. There were more that year too. Wonder what ever became of those guys? 1050. Ryan posted: 12.04.2013 - 7:12 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sounds like Rick Allen will be NBC's lead PxP announcer 1051. DH101 posted: 12.04.2013 - 7:46 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) My prediction of how the rookies will end up 1: Kyle Larson: The reason is because he finished almost as good as Austin's best finish in Phoenix's car 2: Austin Dillon: He has more experience than Kyle but he has not shined yet on cup level, best finish so far is 11th at Michigan. 3: Justin Alligaier: More experience than the two combined but in a Phoenix car which doesn't have really good equipment 4: Parker Kligerman: Great driver but driving very bad equipment with swan racing. He's a hit or miss right now 5: Michael Annett: Lack of experience and with a team that start and parks at times. Doesn't make a great race team 6: Cole Whitt: Don't get me wrong Cole's a good driver but lacks good runs to deserve a cup ride. And like the last 3 he's in lackluster equipment. Each driver does very good behind the wheel either way so this is shaping up to be a great rookie battle 1052. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.04.2013 - 8:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Joey, Geoff Bodine aborted the 1979 attempt and went for ROTY in 1982, which he won. How appropriate that a driver (Jeff Burton) whose career was similar to Benny Parsons's in many ways will now follow him into the booth. 1053. David posted: 12.04.2013 - 10:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just in: The final F1 calendar for next year has been released. The events at Korea, Mexico, and New Jersey have been dropped, reducing the schedule to 19 events. March 16 - Australia March 30 - Malaysia April 6 - Bahrain April 20 - China May 11 - Spain May 25 - Monaco June 8 - Canada June 22 - Austria July 6 - Great Britain July 20 - Germany (Hockenheim) July 27 - Hungary August 24 - Belgium September 7 - Italy September 21 - Singapore October 5 - Japan October 12 - Russia November 2 - USA November 9 - Brazil November 23 - Abu Dhabi 1054. David posted: 12.04.2013 - 10:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, since the GP of Russia is on the final calendar, I assume that the IOC will not step in and delay it (they could have done so if the preparations for the race interfered with the Olympics). 1055. cjs3872 posted: 12.04.2013 - 10:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Right down to the number of wins, NicoRosbergFan, as each had 21 in the Cup Series. However, Parsons did capture two things Burton did not, the championship (Burton's best points finish was third in 2000) and a Daytona 500 win (Burton's best finish in that race was second in 2000). But you're right, they had so much in common, the most significant being the fact that both were what I would call gentleman drivers. Hard racers to be sure, but fair racers. 1056. David posted: 12.04.2013 - 10:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also in: The IndyCar TV schedule. St. Petersburg, the Indianapolis events, and the doubleheader at Belle Isle will be televised on ABC. The remainder of the schedule will be on NBCSN. In addition, the race at Barber Motorsports Park has been moved from April 26 (Saturday) to April 27 (Sunday). 1057. Scott B posted: 12.04.2013 - 11:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like the move by Swan Racing. They are taking on a lot, but the small entry fields make it a good time to expand without much worry about DNQ'ing. They'll have two young drivers with solid potential, and if they show some positive results could attract sponsorship. It does go against the conventional wisdom of launching a new team with a "journeyman" who won't tear up equipment, but in the current economy going with two young guns is a bold tactic that might pay off. 1058. Scott B posted: 12.04.2013 - 11:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is a nice rookie class, but what's the over/under going to be for cautions flags at Sonoma and the Glen? :) 1059. The Sound posted: 12.04.2013 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting. Dakoda Armstrong will compete full-time in RPM's Nationwide #43 for next season. I find this peculiar, as they just announced driver development deals with Corey LaJoie and Ryan Truex. Sponsorship trumps everything? Also, Josh Wise will drive for Phil Parsons next year. 1060. We need more Onion posted: 12.04.2013 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "launching a new team with a "journeyman" who won't tear up equipment, but in the current economy going with two young guns is a bold tactic that might pay off. " It is not like Cole Whitt is someone who crashes a lot. Swan Racing is getting more and more sympathetic with each of their moves. Wishing them the best for 2013. 1061. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.04.2013 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "October 12 - Russia" I imagine it would be cold in Russia in October. Strange time of year to have it. "November 2 - USA" Wow, an F1 race in Austin and a NASCAR Cup race in Fort Worth both in Texas on the same day? Who decided to come up with that idea? One of those races (or both) will have problems selling tickets. 1062. cjs3872 posted: 12.04.2013 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Sound, not only that, but it might be possible that, depending on which driver RPM is going to run full-time, that they might want to develop Corey LaJoie a little more before throwing him into the fire of the Nationwide Series. Having Dakota Armstrong, who is more experienced than the younger LaJoie in NASCAR's top touring series, as a teammate to Ryan Truex, would make sense, while LaJoie is getting another year of experience in ARCA. However, if Armstrong is going to be teamed with LaJoie, then it would make little to no sense. Also, it looks like Josh Wise may be a glutton for starting-and parking, though Phil Parsons' team did run deeper into more races and tried to run the full distance in a couple of races late in the season. He did some S&Ping late in the season in the #35 car, though I was impressed with how he ran at Bristol, because he ran in the top ten before having a tire failure send him into the wall while running about seventh or eighth. Remember that when he shared the #7 NNS car with Danica a few years back, he was the one that ran consistently better, and even came close to winning at Dover when his crew gambled on rain, and nearly won. And as for the Swan Racing team going to two cars next year, while I like the idea of having two young drivers be able to run and gain experience, I think a team like that needs a veteran driver if they're going to two cars. But both Whitt and Kligerman were impressive at times last year, especially Kligerman, who brought Swan Racing an 18th-place finish n the fall Cup race at Texas, two laps behind the leaders, which was quite an accomplishment for that team, considering how much of the second half of that race was run under green because of how far behind a team like that figures to get on pit stops. Remember that the disadvantage a smaller team like that would have is more likely to show up on pit road rather than the track itself. But Kligerman's run may have been the best for a small team at a high-speed track all year, including some Casey Mears had early in the season in the #13 car, which did have backing from Penske in 2013, and will have backing from RCR in 2014, as it's going from Ford to Chevrolet. 1063. cjs3872 posted: 12.04.2013 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And SpeedWorld97, both of those races in Texas had better hope that the NFL doesn't get involved and schedule a Dallas Cowboys home game for that date, because if they do, neither will have any kind of attendance, especially since "Jerryworld" can seat more than 100,000. That would really suck the attendance from both races, particularly the Cup race in nearby Fort Worth. 1064. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.04.2013 - 3:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And SpeedWorld97, both of those races in Texas had better hope that the NFL doesn't get involved and schedule a Dallas Cowboys home game for that date, because if they do, neither will have any kind of attendance, especially since "Jerryworld" can seat more than 100,000. That would really suck the attendance from both races, particularly the Cup race in nearby Fort Worth." Not to mention, F1 tickets are outrageously expensive, and do you seriously think Texas sports fans would rather see a 3+ hour NFL game for a cheaper ticket price or a 1 1/2 hour F1 race for a much more expensive price? If I had to choose, I would definitely see the F1 race, but then again I have no interest in the NFL, which influences my decision. 1065. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.04.2013 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Rick Allen as lead announcer. I have no prawblems with that. 1066. David posted: 12.04.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Rick Allen as lead announcer. I have no prawblems with that." Ha! I just saw that same remark on Twitter 1067. startandparkfan posted: 12.04.2013 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Rick Allen is my favorite announcer, so I am glad to see that he will be the lead announcer. I hope that Phil Parsons will join him. Jeff Burton will also be an announcer. 1068. Schroeder51 posted: 12.04.2013 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've always thought Rick Allen was one of the better NASCAR commentators today and I'm intrigued to see how Burton will do as a commentator. NBC's coverage of NASCAR sounds like it's going to be better than FOX's and ESPN's coverage has been...but I'll wait until 2015, because we can't really know what it's going to be like until we actually see it. Having said that, I would be willing to bet money that someone on here who hated ESPN's coverage and longed for NBC to come back will hate NBC's coverage once it starts and long for ESPN to come back. I can totally see it happening. 1069. DB1995 posted: 12.04.2013 - 6:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hey guys, I got to see Joe Lee Johnsons 57 chevy convertible today, with his championship trophy in it, its at Flloyd Garrets Muscle Car Museum in Sevierville TN, The place is definitely worth a visit if you live near by 1070. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 12.04.2013 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Its good to see NBC go with new blood for their lead team instead of retreading the same people who've been on TV forever. Hopefully they don't make the biggest mistake of NESPN/Fox and have a pre-race crew of infinity people. The first iteration of NBC/TNT was great in that it was only one guy(though it was Weber)doing the pre-race and since he worked the pits they didn't go back to him several times during the race just to validate their existence. I'm bummed that NJ didn't end up staying on the '14 F1 schedule. My sister's apartment was about 3-4 blocks from the proposed circuit. I don't think the October race in Sochi will be that bad. Sochi is as far south as you can get in Russia; the weather at the worst will probably be when Spa gets a cold spell. The best NASCAR console game was Dirt to Daytona. First off, there was dirt racing which was pretty realistic and the options you had to set up the car were endless. Tire pressure on each tire to the 1/4 pound, camber, shocks, wedge by the 1/10 of a turn, detailed gear ratios, grill tape, sway bar adjustments, and more. Like NASCAR 05 there were also 4 different series in the career mode; Dirt, Modified, Truck, and Cup and you had to win the championship in each series to advance to the next series. 1071. ch posted: 12.04.2013 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I would have prefered Alan Bestwick, but Allen is an excellent choice too. I hope that NBC gets Bestwick for the studio! 1072. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.04.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Rick Allen is an excellent commentator, he will do great. As was mentioned earlier, I too am glad they are getting new blood for Cup. Unless it is Bob Jenkins. In May I watched an entire day of Indy 500 practice and pit challenges and wound up watching the Indy Lights race just to hear him announcing. I was rewarded with an epic 4 wide finish. The lesson here: when Bob Jenkins is commentating, don't turn the damn channel. He is the good luck charm for good racing. 1073. Paul posted: 12.05.2013 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "they might want to develop Corey LaJoie a little more before throwing him into the fire of the Nationwide Series." LaJoie won five races and racked up 10 top five finishes in the K&N Pro Series East in 2012. And this past season he won three races and had 4 top five finishes in five starts in ARCA. Not only that, he did so while driving his own equipment that he prepared himself. Sure he might struggle a bit in the Nationwide Series his first season, but it's not like LaJoie is some shmuck who doesn't deserve a full-time Nationwide ride based on a poor minor league racing record. I'd rather see a blue chip prospect like Corey LaJoie get a chance in RPM's rumored second car than guy with very little upside like Ryan Truex, who is what he is. "I would have preferred Alan Bestwick, but [Rick] Allen is an excellent choice too." Alan Bestwick was great while working for NBC/TNT back in the day, but aside from a few moments here and there, I've been largely unimpressed by him ever since he joined ESPN. He'd make a great play-by-play commentator for a golf sporting event based on the level of excitement (or lack thereof) that he displayed last season. 1074. joey2448 posted: 12.05.2013 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The events at Korea, Mexico, and New Jersey have been dropped, reducing the schedule to 19 events." Damn, I was hoping to see Mexico and New Jersey. Hopefully we'll see them next year. Good to see Korea go. No one there was interested (they had to let people in for free just to fill the stands. They also weren't even aware that there were other F1 races other than Korea!) and the track officiating was never up to standards, a point that was made especially clear this year when the fire safety vehicle was released onto the course before the actual safety car itself could get out! It was comical, to say the least... Also, how hasn't Bahrain been let go??? It's a controversial issue every year they go there, with all the unrest in the area! And AUSTRIA!!! That is the Red Bull Ring, right? Or as I prefer to still call it, the Osterreichring...even though it's only a shadow of it's former original, glorious self. It's a beautiful racetrack. As for the NASCAR on NBC booth lineup, Rick Allen is good (PRAWBLEMS!!!) but I still think Allen Bestwick is better. If only they could get Wally in there as well...that guy is pure gold! 1075. David posted: 12.05.2013 - 1:58 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "That is the Red Bull Ring, right?" Seems like every track has been a Red Bull Ring lately... 1076. cjs3872 posted: 12.05.2013 - 5:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Paul, I was just saying that Petty might want Corey LaJoie to get another year of experience in ARCA before throwing him into the much deeper waters of the Nationwide Series. There's no doubting Corey's record, just his experience in a national touring series. Ryan has the experience in the Nationwide Series, and even a few Cup races in the #51 car, and Dakoda Armstrong has two or three years in the Truck Series behind him, as well as some ARCA prior to that as a Penske Racing development driver. And remember who we're talking about here. Much like the Wood Brothers, his main archrival through the years, Richard Petty has almost always valued experience, and both Ryan Truex and Dakoda Armstrong have that over Corey LaJoie at this point. 1077. Smiff_2 posted: 12.05.2013 - 7:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Count me in as another person excited about NBC's broadcast team. Call me crazy, but I'm kinda hoping Andy Petree becomes the 3rd guy in the booth. When it comes to questionable strategy, he's usually pretty straight forward. I like that. And Rick Allen's got a great set of pipes. Can't wait to hear him call a Cup race. 1078. We need more Onion posted: 12.05.2013 - 9:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And AUSTRIA!!! That is the Red Bull Ring, right? Or as I prefer to still call it, the Osterreichring...even though it's only a shadow of it's former original, glorious self. It's a beautiful racetrack." It is really hard to find an other purpose-built race track which is as beautiful as the Osterreichring/A1-Ring/RBRing. It is gorgeous and I am lucky to be able to say that I was there, not only there as a spectator, but also as a participant in track days. In my view the best venue ever if we consider scenery AND safety. (Maybe Lime Rock could be a good contender, but those magnificent Alps...) 1079. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.05.2013 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Also, how hasn't Bahrain been let go??? It's a controversial issue every year they go there, with all the unrest in the area!" Because Bernie Eccelstone doesn't care about the safety for the fans. Running the Bahrain makes him a lot of money, which is the main thing he cares about. Besides, the Bahrain race will be just like Singapore, as it will be run under the lights for the first time. Middle Eastern races run at night are always neat to see, in my opinion. 1080. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.05.2013 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Biggest surprise of the year...Dale Jr. nabs his 11th straight Most Popular Driver Award. 1081. cjs3872 posted: 12.05.2013 - 5:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Interesting news regarding a change in the Hall of Fame eligibility requirements that affect drivers that are, or were still active at the end of the 2012 and 2013 seasons. Any driver that's competed for at least ten years and is 55 years of age and over is immediately eligible for possible Hall of Fame status if their 55th birthday either has come, or will come by the end of the year in which they turn 55, and drivers that have competed in NASCAR for at least 30 years also become eligible automatically, meaning drivers such as Terry Labonte, Bill Elliott, Mark Martin, and Ken Schrader are immediately eligible for the Hall of Fame, and Ron Hornaday, Jr. will soon be eligible because of the new 55-year of age rule, meaning that Labonte could get elected in the Hall of Fame next year, even though he's still technically a active driver. For any driver that's competed for 30 years, and/or is 55 years of age and over, the 3-year waiting period is now officially waived. And I think Terry gets in, not just because of his popularity (and for the fact that he would be deserving of such an honor), but also remember that Jimmie Johnson, as the champion, now has a vote, and he might very well vote for both Rick Hendrick and his former HMS teammate Labonte, who won a championship there in 1996. But giving the champion a vote jut because he won the championship was a hare-brained decision, and I'll always believe that. In other news, did anyone else notice that each of the top six in the Most Popular Driver balloting are drivers that were under the Hendrick Motorsports umbrella in the just competed season? That includes all four HMS drivers, plus Tony Stewart and Danica Patrick. And #7 on that list is Kevin Harvick, who will be under that same umbrella next year, meaning that the top seven drivers in the Most Popular Driver voting will all be under the HMS umbrella next year. And #8 and #9 are the leading drivers for Joe Gibbs Racing, Matt Kenseth and Kyle Busch, with Carl Edwards the only Ford driver represented at #10. 1082. 18fan posted: 12.05.2013 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Dale Jr. now has more Most Popular Driver wins at Hendrick than he does trips to Victory Lane (including non-points races) 1083. Eric posted: 12.05.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is my take on the NASCAR Hall of Fame changes: 1.) NASCAR Hall of Fame is desperately trying is to make their classes stronger as a way to make more people attend the NASCAR Hall of Fame. I see the Hall of Fame is coming from based on the amount of years a driver has raced or the age of the driver. The problem lies in my 2nd thought. 2.) The eligibility rule changes hurt the drivers before the Darrell Waltrip/Dale Earnhardt Sr. era that aren't currently in the NASCAR Hall of Fame such as Fred Lorenzen. The fact is Terry Labonte, Mark Martin and Bill Elliott is going to take votes away from Joe Weatherly, Rex White, Bobby Isaac, and Benny Parsons. Terry Labonte, Mark Martin, and Bill Elliott are all future NASCAR Hall of Fame drivers, but they shouldn't be in before Fred Lorezen, Rex White, Joe Weatherly, and Bobby Isaac. 3.) Happy to see one part of the corruption of the voting process to be gone. The fact is NASCAR Hall of Fame Nominees shouldn't have been allowed vote because they would vote for themselves. 4.) Allowing the reigning Cup champion to vote is even worse than NASCAR Hall of Fame Voters being allowed to vote despite being on the NASCAR Hall of Fame Ballot. I am saying this because we all know if someone from HMS is on the ballot, Jimmie Johnson is going to for. 5.) To me creating the Landmark Award award might have been a way to get Danica Patrick an award. 6.) Cutting down the number of people on the ballot is only a sort term answer of a problem for running out of quality candidates. The fact is cutting down from 25 to 20 people isn't going to prevent Michael Waltrip to be on a Ballot for the NASCAR Hall of Fame. 1084. Scott B posted: 12.05.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, it looks like Josh Wise may be a glutton for starting-and parking, though Phil Parsons' team did run deeper into more races and tried to run the full distance in a couple of races late in the season." Yeah, I'm not sure this is a good career move. If you look at Front Row's results they've made steady progress over the past few seasons. The different teams Phil Parson's have been involved in at the Cup level never seem to gain a foothold. I suspect Josh is just looking for a short-term stepping stone to something better, though, so I hope it works out for him as far as getting to run the full race distance most weeks. 1085. Eric posted: 12.05.2013 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I brought up the Landmark award might have been a way to have Danica to win an award because the award is about honor significant contributions to the sport's growth. The voters might want to give Danica a vote since she is one of NASCAR's most well known drivers with her being the most well known female NASCAR driver ever. 1086. cjs3872 posted: 12.05.2013 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric, I might agree with everyone you mentioned except Benny Parsons, in terms of ex-drivers that will be adversely affected by the change in the Hall of Fame eligibility changes. Remember that, in the case of Parsons, you not only have a 20-year driving career to consider, but also a 18-year commentating career that directly followed his driving career, which makes it somewhat surprising that he didn't make it last time, but I think he should get in this time, even with Elliott, Martin, and Terry Labonte becoming eligible (Benny raced against Elliott and Labonte for a full decade, and even helped launch Elliott's road to stardom in the early 80s). I think those should be four of the five that get in this time around. One change I'd like to see made, and I think it will in time, is a percentage requirement for potential enshrines. I know that both the Baseball and Pro Football Halls of Fame have stingier requirements, particularly baseball. The Baseball Hall of Fame has a 75% requirement to get in, while the Pro Football Hall of Fame is a little more generous, as a minimum of four get in every year. I think there should be about a 60% minimum threshold for NASCAR Hall of Fame enshrinement. But I have no problem with the number of nominees, though they should not be allowed to vote until they get in, though there still might be concerns even after they get in. You know there might be nepotism and other sorts of favoritism involved in voting, even after someone gets into the Hall of Fame. But if they're going to reduce the number of nominees to 20, there's a problem since there's already the 20 for this year that were grandfathered in from last year. 1087. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.05.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "4.) Allowing the reigning Cup champion to vote is even worse than NASCAR Hall of Fame Voters being allowed to vote despite being on the NASCAR Hall of Fame Ballot. I am saying this because we all know if someone from HMS is on the ballot, Jimmie Johnson is going to for." What's the difference between having Jimmie Johnson on the panel when Rick Hendrick is nominated and having Richard Petty on the panel when Lee or Maurice was nominated? Oh yeah, it's Jimmie Johnson...The fact is that everyone is going to have people their more biased toward adding based off of their personal experiences. 1088. David posted: 12.05.2013 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But if they're going to reduce the number of nominees to 20, there's a problem since there's already the 20 for this year that were grandfathered in from last year." They don't HAVE to renominate the 20 who didn't make it the previous year. "The fact is Terry Labonte, Mark Martin and Bill Elliott is going to take votes away from Joe Weatherly, Rex White, Bobby Isaac, and Benny Parsons. Terry Labonte, Mark Martin, and Bill Elliott are all future NASCAR Hall of Fame drivers, but they shouldn't be in before Fred Lorezen, Rex White, Joe Weatherly, and Bobby Isaac." Well, Martin won't be eligible for nomination until the 2016 class (he doesn't turn 55 until January), and Weatherly, White, Isaac, and Parsons, should definitely make it this upcoming year (and I'm saying that as if they don't make it, I will be extremely disappointed). 1089. Eric posted: 12.05.2013 - 6:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, You are off on Mark Martin not being elible for 2015 by the fact you need to be 55 years old or race for NASCAR for 30 years. Mark already raced in NASCAR over 30 years and he is already eligible as a result. NASCAR's own website mentioned Mark is affected by the rules since Mark has raced for 31 years in NASCAR and that is what makes him elgible for the 2015 class. 1090. David posted: 12.05.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You are off on Mark Martin not being elible for 2015 by the fact you need to be 55 years old or race for NASCAR for 30 years. Mark already raced in NASCAR over 30 years and he is already eligible as a result. NASCAR's own website mentioned Mark is affected by the rules since Mark has raced for 31 years in NASCAR and that is what makes him elgible for the 2015 class." Huh. Serves me right for not reading Jayski closely enough. 1091. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.05.2013 - 7:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Because Bernie Eccelstone doesn't care about the safety for the fans. Running the Bahrain makes him a lot of money, which is the main thing he cares about." Ding,ding,ding we have a winner. He also came up with the idea of adding spranklers too race tracks too make the racing more exciting..... Yep, he actually said that. Along with KERS and DRS. Just think if Bernie was running NASCAR, it'd make the current people look sane and angel like. 1092. David posted: 12.05.2013 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "He also came up with the idea of adding spranklers too race tracks too make the racing more exciting..... Yep, he actually said that." Sounds like a certain promoter we all know and love, doesn't it? "Just think if Bernie was running NASCAR, it'd make the current people look sane and angel like." As incredible a feat as that seems, it is true. 1093. Eric posted: 12.05.2013 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zachary Shawn, Did it occur to you that Mark Martin, and Terry Labonte being eligible to be on the 2015 NASCAR hall of fame ballot actually gives Jimmie Johnson more than the ability to vote for Rick Hendrick and makes what Richard Petty did look like child's play? The fact is no matter who from Hendrick Motorsports is cup champion, has the power to vote for 4 or 5 HMS people in one Hall of fame class. The fact is if Jeff Gordon was cup champion for 2013, Jeff would be going the same thing as Jimmie Johnson. HMS has a lot of people that went through the Hendrick organization that aren't in the Hall of Fame yet and that means Rick wants those people to be in the NASCAR Hall of Fame if they are on the Ballot. Rick would be telling his driver who to vote for. The fact is while you think of Mark as a Roush driver, Mark raced at HMS for 3 season and was Jimmie's teammate. Jimmie also will voting for Terry Labonte if he's on the ballot because he was Jimmie's teammate at Hendrick and won a cup championship for Hendrick. Hendrick has more guys eligible for the NASCAR Hall of fame for current organizations than all the rest of the current teams in the garage. That means Hendrick if there is 4 to 5 people with Hendrick ties on the 2015 ballot, that means there wouldn't be any cup champions before 1973 getting into the NASCAR Hall of Fame in 2015. 1094. Eric posted: 12.05.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn, Did it occur to you that my reason for not reigning champions vote isn't who the drive is champion, but by the amount of people from one existing organization that could be on a ballot? The fact is the cony system for the Hall of Fame for Wood Brothers, Junior Johnson, and Petty Enterprises is weaker than it would be for HMS. The fact is Hendrick Motorsports has been winning races for 28 straight years. The fact is Petty and the Wood brothers really hasn't had a lot of NASCAR hall of Fame people since the early 1980's. Remember that is a big deal since full time multi car teams really didn't stuck before Hendrick Motorsports and that means more personnel from the history of HMS would be in the NASCAR Hall of Fame. why You have had to do an internet attack on me without knowing all the facts on why I didn't support any active driver having vote for the NASCAR Hall of Fame? 1095. The Sound posted: 12.05.2013 - 7:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) How did Kasey Kahne finish 2nd in Most Popular Driver voting? How? I cannot think of any Kahne fans I know. 1096. murb posted: 12.05.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How did Kasey Kahne finish 2nd in Most Popular Driver voting? How? I cannot think of any Kahne fans I know." There must have been a lot of women voters, considering both Kahne and Danica (I assume) finishing that high. 1097. Anonymous posted: 12.05.2013 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "why You have had to do an internet attack on me without knowing all the facts on why I didn't support any active driver having vote for the NASCAR Hall of Fame? " Jimmie Johnson fans never use facts. Look at what happened to NRF when he came at MStall with an armload of facts. 1098. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.05.2013 - 8:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ding,ding,ding we have a winner. He also came up with the idea of adding spranklers too race tracks too make the racing more exciting..... Yep, he actually said that. Along with KERS and DRS. Just think if Bernie was running NASCAR, it'd make the current people look sane and angel like." I'm beginning to wonder if Bernie Eccelstone and Bruton Smith were seperated at birth, because they are the only people who would come up with ideas as dumb as that. Here's another similar thing between them: Bernie has wanted F1 to go away from many traditional European tracks that have been on the schedule for decades (Monza, for example) in favor of newly-built tracks in the Asian and Middle-Eastern markets. Sounds familiar? 1099. cjs3872 posted: 12.05.2013 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And Eric, let's not forget that even though he never won there (he came close more than once), Benny Parsons also drove for Hendrick Motorsports, filling in for Tim Richmond in 1987, so if there's a Hendrick bias, that could also help Benny get in without anyone realizing it. And certainly, the new eligibility rules also makes Geoff Bodine, Hendrick's first driver and first Daytona 500 winner, eligible for the Hall of Fame, and I think he'll also get in eventually. That's why I don't like the potential cronyism about having team owners, Hall of Fame members, and even the sport's champion involved in the voting process. Why do you think the other sports have sportswriters and commentators doing the voting. Now certainly there's cronyism there, or the exact opposite, people who will never vote for a certain individual for the Hall of Fame, but that kind of thing in other sports is child's play compared to the cronyism you're likely to see involved with the NASCAR Hall of Fame voting process. For instance, Darrell Waltrip is likely to vote for HMS guys such as Labonte, Parsons, Hendrick himself, and even Bodine, who he had quite a number of run-ins with. Junior Johnson might vote for Labonte, Bodine, and Bill Elliott, all of whom drove for and won for him, though something like that is less likely from Junior. Had Kevin Harvick won the title this year, he would have voted for Richard Childress for the exact same reason. And David (#1088), part of the Hall of Fame nomination process is that once an individual becomes a finalist for the Hall of Fame, he's automatically a finalist for all future classes until he's elected and inducted. That's why I brought up the 20 individuals that are finalists because they were grandfathered in as finalists in the most recent Hall of Fame election cycle. They're automatically finalists. What we might then see if they are going to reduce the number of finalists from 25 to 20 is to not nominate anyone new this year (which I think is wrong) and just pick the next class among just those 20 existing finalists from last year. And by the way, I never mention anything not related to sports on this board, but I'm going to make this one exception, because I think he deserves it for all he did around the world, and especially his home country of South Africa. R.I.P. Nelson Mandela, a true giant among men. 1100. David posted: 12.05.2013 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm beginning to wonder if Bernie Eccelstone and Bruton Smith were seperated at birth, because they are the only people who would come up with ideas as dumb as that." Ha! You and I think alike. I said pretty much the same thing in #1090. I wonder if Brian France looks to Bernie for inspiration. It's a good thing he hasn't found out about the 197* F****** T** points system yet. ;) 1101. jabber1990 posted: 12.05.2013 - 9:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) is Bernie Eccelstone the Brian France or Mike Helton of F1? 1102. David posted: 12.05.2013 - 9:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Unfortunately for F1, yes. 1103. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.05.2013 - 9:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "why You have had to do an internet attack on me without knowing all the facts on why I didn't support any active driver having vote for the NASCAR Hall of Fame?" Because everyone on that nominating committee and voting panel have biases as to who gets in based on their personal experiences. That's the way life works. Do you think that changes when a driver switches from active to inactive? Jimmie is one man, anyway. Judging by what I can tell, even if he does try to get everyone affiliated with HMS on the ballot into the hall (he won't), it would have to gain traction with the other voters or be abandoned after the first vote. If Matt Kenseth had won the championship does the panel all of a sudden become biased towards Gibbs? 1104. MStall41 posted: 12.05.2013 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) ""why You have had to do an internet attack on me without knowing all the facts on why I didn't support any active driver having vote for the NASCAR Hall of Fame? " Jimmie Johnson fans never use facts. Look at what happened to NRF when he came at MStall with an armload of facts." Um, excuse me? An ARMLOAD OF FACTS? Last I checked slanderous personal attacks on a driver do not count as facts. Oh and for what its worth I am not a Jimmie Johnson fan. 1105. The Long Shot posted: 12.05.2013 - 11:20 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Jimmie Johnson fans never use facts. Look at what happened to NRF when he came at MStall with an armload of facts." First off, I'm sorry, but using so-called "facts" that were really more opinion than fact, then proceeding to insult Johnson, then insulting MStall for disagreeing, does not constitute a good argument in my opinion. Once it gets down to insulting people, no matter who it may be, that's the end of that person's argument's validity. And secondly, take off your sheep's wool, NRF. We all know it's you. 1106. Eric posted: 12.05.2013 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn, The panel wouldn't be of a sudden become biased towards Gibbs if Matt won the cup championship in 2013. It goes to the fact JGR has people that you can't put the ballot yet. Joe Gibbs as an owner is below Rick Hendrick, Richard Childress, and Jack Roush in terms of history of NASCAR for Current NASCAR owners. Jack was one the best Truck Series owners ever, Jack had been a great Busch/Nationwide series owner longer than Gibbs, and Roush was a bigger threat to the Championship than Roush before 1999. The fact is JGR was a good organization that turned very good in cup once they became a 2 car cup team. The only other 2 that might be eligble is Greg Zipadelli and Jimmy Makar, but they are not people you would expect to be on a 2015 hall of fame ballot and Matt doesn't have say on why is on the ballot like Jimmie Johnson doesn't have any say on who is on the ballot. 1107. Sean posted: 12.06.2013 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Right down to the number of wins, NicoRosbergFan, as each had 21 in the Cup Series." I don't really think of Parsons and Burton as all that similar. Parsons was a consistent threat over an extended period (a decade) and didn't really have true off seasons until the end of his career. Burton became invisible his late Roush/early Childress years. Burton also had on average better equipment, and Parsons achieved for teams that did little else (L.G. DeWitt) while Burton never really competed for a championship in a period that was not bursting with talent with some great cars (1997-2000)... Admittedly, there were just as few championship contenders in Parsons's day but he for the most part came as close to fighting against all-time legends as Burton did in a period where Jeff Gordon was the only all-time legend at his peak... When Burton had something similar to L.G. DeWitt-level cars (the Stavola Brothers) he was not too good. Yes, NASCAR was much, much deeper in the mid-1990s. Parsons is more like Terry Labonte, Burton is more like Donnie Allison talent-wise... Which is not intended as an insult to Burton or Donnie... Burton won't come close to Parsons as an announcer either. This is my own thing and it's probably not very rational, but I've always viewed Burton as kind of a kiss-ass. He'll be as bland as Jarrett and for a similar reason. He rarely says anything controversial and he's just kind of there. He won't exactly suck but he won't memorably quotable. The absolute best drivers rarely become the best announcers: look at Darrell Waltrip's FOX career, or look at Kyle Petty having a slightly above average Cup career, Wally Dallenbach, Jr. having an awful one on ovals, Parker Johnstone being a mediocre CART driver, and Jon Beekhuis downright sucking. But all were GREAT announcers so... I'd actually be more interested to see how WARD Burton would do as announcer, since he would be more likely to pull no punches. Rick Allen is a good hire. We need more new blood, and Allen Bestwick's kind of been annoying me lately. Not annoying me to Eli Gold, Waltrip brothers, Rusty Wallace, or FOX-era Mike Joy levels, but it's been making me sick lately how for instance Bestwick seems to be rooting for big wrecks in restrictor plate races... "I too am glad they are getting new blood for Cup. Unless it is Bob Jenkins." Nah. In Jenkins's seasons leading NBC Sports's IndyCar coverage, he was definitely slipping. He made a lot more faux pas, seemed to be losing his voice at times, wasn't nearly as enthusiastic. I mean I can certainly understand why considering how sick his wife was (and I come off as less enthusiastic than even recent Jenkins, despite being younger than half his age), but he was not up to his 1990s ability. Not to mention that I have definitely read Jenkins saying many things about how he hated the recent direction of NASCAR. Better to associate Jenkins with racing in the past than to have him trying to polish a turd in 2014 (as he did when he announced IRL races in the 2000 and 2001 and tried to argue the drivers were better than the CART drivers because the racing was closer, entirely because the IRL artificially lowered the horsepower). Same deal with Paul Page. Both legends, but I want fresher talent. The problem is I don't see where that talent is going to come from, considering the holding patterns in the recent NASCAR and IndyCar booths. Having said that, it says something about today's coverage that a Jenkins at 50% would still be an improvement over most of what we see today. At least few people seem to be nostalgic about Eli Gold, who in my view was the worst NASCAR play-by-play guy of the last 20 years. "I'm bummed that NJ didn't end up staying on the '14 F1 schedule." That race keeps being added and getting canceled. It's getting to be a colossal joke. Just like all of Champ Car and IndyCar's attempts to race in China or Korea. "Biggest surprise of the year...Dale Jr. nabs his 11th straight Most Popular Driver Award." I kinda thought Danica had a shot. Seriously. I was shocked she was only 5th, and pleased. "In other news, did anyone else notice that each of the top six in the Most Popular Driver balloting are drivers that were under the Hendrick Motorsports umbrella in the just competed season? That includes all four HMS drivers, plus Tony Stewart and Danica Patrick. And #7 on that list is Kevin Harvick, who will be under that same umbrella next year, meaning that the top seven drivers in the Most Popular Driver voting will all be under the HMS umbrella next year." One could argue they're trying to collect all the fan favorites to detract attention from their myriad rules controversies, most recently Jeff Gordon's bogus chase bid (I've changed my mind on this HARD, even though I knew either way it wouldn't make a bit of difference since he doesn't have another championship run in him, I think). It makes me want to root for anyone not affiliated with Hendrick whatsoever. Even Hamlin and Edwards! Having said that, I'm glad to see Gene Haas cares about talent by giving Kurt Busch a shot over Tony Stewart's disapproval. Now if somebody would do the same for the much nicer, equally talented Justin Wilson in IndyCar... "Fred Lorenzen, Rex White, Joe Weatherly, and Bobby Isaac" I could live with Elliott being inducted before these guys, even though I think those drivers, on average, are better. Terry and Martin, definitely not. "The fact is NASCAR Hall of Fame Nominees shouldn't have been allowed vote because they would vote for themselves." There is some history of this. An Inside NASCAR magazine I have from 1998 indicates that quite a few NASCAR legends voted on the 50 Greatest Drivers list (many of whom were on the list). Larry Phillips was on the panel and was bizarrely not selected. Glen Wood probably was selected more because quite a few of the Wood Brothers' drivers voted on the panel more than because he necessarily deserved a spot (I found him to be one of the more dubious inclusions, but I'm not going to argue it TOO hard, since I might be a bit ignorant.) This especially happens in other realms. Peter Gabriel was just nominated for induction into the Rock 'N Roll Hall of Fame. Genesis made it in a few years ago, and he'll technically be able to vote for himself as an already inducted member of Genesis. Nirvana is totally going to overshadow all the other nominees combined, but still... "Allowing the reigning Cup champion to vote is even worse than NASCAR Hall of Fame Voters being allowed to vote despite being on the NASCAR Hall of Fame Ballot." On the other hand, I agree with this. There are all sorts of conflicts of interest in my opinion with only having the CURRENT champion be allowed to vote. If you're going to do this, every living champion (maybe including the minor league series as well) should be allowed a vote, which would provide more balance. But I'd also be okay with NO non-inducted members having a vote. But yes, having only the current champion is kind of ridiculous. "Cutting down the number of people on the ballot is only a sort term answer of a problem for running out of quality candidates." Running out of quality candidates?!?!?!?! I could make a list with 100 names on it. EASILY. And if they actually do start running out of quality candidates, then might be the time to reduce the number of inductions to 1 or 2 a year like the Baseball Hall of Fame. I kind of doubt the NASCAR Hall of Fame will still be in existence that long though. I've always felt it kind of redundant since the International Motorsports Hall of Fame could essentially be called ("The NASCAR Hall of Fame Plus a Few Auto Executives and International Racing Personalities We Wanted to Include"). Okay, I'm exaggerating a little but if the Talladega IMHoF is going to scrape the bottom of the barrel to induct Junie Donlavey without inducting Hurley Haywood, the greatest U.S. sports car driver in history, something is out of whack here. Similar to the reasons IROC was out of whack. 1108. Sean posted: 12.06.2013 - 12:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There must have been a lot of women voters, considering both Kahne and Danica (I assume) finishing that high." Hmm, I always thought male voters tended to vote for female drivers most often, and for the worst reasons. Sarah Fisher and Danica Patrick continually got voted most popular driver in the IRL despite minimal results and I always thought their fan bases skewed primarily male ("pretty drivers to look at, etc...") Not that female fans are any better, as Kasey Kahne has so many fans because of how "dreamy" he is. At least Kahne is a better driver than Fisher and Patrick. And at least Fisher was likable and didn't court the attention she got herself, as opposed to Patrick, who voluntarily turned herself into a caricature and never developed the potential she may have had. "is Bernie Eccelstone the Brian France or Mike Helton of F1?" In the long run, Tony George was probably worse than any of the above. Bear in mind that both F1 and NASCAR might be better today if CART was providing significant competition as it did in 1995, and F1, NASCAR, and IndyCar might have gone in less gimmicky routes as a result... IndyCar was much better than F1 and NASCAR competition-wise even last season, but the audience was too small to care. I do give George credit for not being an isolationist like Tony Hulman was and opening up IMS to other series (hey, he didn't know for a fact that the Brickyard 400 and the USGP were going to suck), building up the infrastructure of the track, funding the SAFER barrier, and apparently keeping IMS out of Busch/Nationwide to help IRP out until his sisters had him fired. But his negative legacies were ultimately much more significant. "Also in: The IndyCar TV schedule. St. Petersburg, the Indianapolis events, and the doubleheader at Belle Isle will be televised on ABC. The remainder of the schedule will be on NBCSN." Belle Isle was actually watchable this year (for once) but why oh why oh why does ABC insist on choosing that as one of their anchor races instead of Long Beach or the Toronto double-header, or Texas, or Milwaukee, or Pocono, or Fontana, which would all have been much better choices? I understand they want to be in the Detroit market because of the US auto industry's presence there (even though it's dwindling) and MIS doesn't want IndyCar back because they can't afford the sanctioning fee to race there (same deal with Phoenix, Road America, Laguna Seca, and other classic open wheel venues) but surely somebody could actually engineer a different Detroit street course with passing? And surely ? And I'm getting sick of street course double-headers, especially those two because Belle Isle and Houston are the worst tracks on the schedule. They give relatively insignificant tracks too significant weight towards the championship (Castroneves essentially lost because he had a malfunctioning car at Houston and had two mechanical failures with it, and Franchitti had his horrific career-ending crash there...) But...the street courses make money and nothing else except Indy does, so... At least the street course racing with the DW12 is much, MUCH better than it was in the CART years in the '90s. 1109. Sean posted: 12.06.2013 - 12:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And surely ?" I have no idea what I was trying to say there, but whatever it was was going to be redundant, so just feel free to omit this. 1110. Sean posted: 12.06.2013 - 12:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And actually reviewing Donnie Allison's career more closely, I think I'd take Donnie over Burton... He had a better winning percentage (4.13% to 3.04%) and was much more dominant (average % led of 5.79 for Donnie and 2.96 for Burton). Burton and Sterling Marlin would be closer, when you consider the teams Burton drove for, and the teams Marlin drove for. 1111. murb posted: 12.06.2013 - 12:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "At least few people seem to be nostalgic about Eli Gold, who in my view was the worst NASCAR play-by-play guy of the last 20 years." I actually always liked him for the most part, though I do understand how you could be annoyed by him. I just always thought he, Buddy Baker, and Dick Berggren had great chemistry together. I don't think I mentioned it before, but I'm happy about Rick Allen being selected by NBC. If they were going to pick someone out of the current group of Nascar play by play men, he's easily the best choice. And I agree with Sean on Bestwick. I've always liked him (he probably would have been my second choice after Rick Allen), but lately with ESPN he's been getting annoying. I think now what NBC needs to do for their third announcer is hire someone who will add a bit of an edge to the booth. I think Burton will add some nice insight, but even I know that it will get boring quickly if he is their main color commentator. It seems to me like Wally is going to stick with the IndyCar booth, so hopefully they can get someone like Kyle Petty to come in and be the guy that will call people on their horseshit. Or, as a bit of a long shot candidate, maybe even Randy Lajoie, who I always thought was a great addition to ESPN's booth when he would do some of the NNS stand alone races. 1112. cjs3872 posted: 12.06.2013 - 1:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, you just contradicted yourself in your comparison of both Parsons and Jeff Burton. The truth is that L.G. DeWitt's team was one of just two or three top teams that ran Chevrolets in the early and mid 70s, with the others being the Richard Howard/Junior Johnson team and Bobby Allison's team in 1973-''74, and even calling Allison's team a top-notch team is stretching it. And let's not forget that, although he won both the championship in 1973 and Daytona 500 in 1975, he has one man to thank for both accomplishments, and that's David Pearson. He had Pearson to thank for him winning the championship in 1973 because he took away many wins from Petty and Yarborough that they needed to win the title. He also had Pearson to thank somewhat for winning the 1975 Daytona 500 because of David's ill-advised move through traffic that got him spun out, though Cale Yarborough also had something to do with that. Also, there were only five or six cars, at the most, that were capable of winning until 1978 or 1979, which were fewer cars than there were elite drivers at the time. On the other hand, Jeff Burton was a top competitor in the late 90s and early 2000s, during a part of NASCAR's most competitive era, winning 17 times from 1997-'01. Only three drivers, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jarrett, and Mark Martin had more. But Burton fell victim to Roush's youth movement in 2002 and didn't win again until 2006, so we don't know how much Burton might have been able to do if Roush hadn't basically put him out to pasture. Sure, Burton drove for a lower-level team when he drove the Stavola Brothers' #8 car, but nobody ever did well in that car after Dick Trickle in 1992. Burton had one great run in that car in the spring race at Atlanta in 1994 and Hut Stricklin did the same in the 1996 Southern 500, but that was it after 1992. Even Sterling Marlin, who won 10 times and nearly won the championship in 2002 after departing that team, struggled badly in the Stavola Brothers equipment in 1993. But where I draw the comparisons is their driving style, as both Parsons and Burton were known as solid, but fair competitors, as I refer to both as gentleman drivers, because they were, and both usually rose to the occasion in the big events. Parsons won the Daytona 500, Burton the Southern 500, and both won the Coca-Cola 600, with Burton winning it twice, and even late in their careers, each had chances to win these events, even though they couldn't take full advantage of it. And you also mentioned in that post about how Bob Jenkins struggled in his latter years anchoring NBC Sports' Indycar coverage. That's what happens with age. After all, as hard as it is to believe, Jenkins is 66 years old now, and once you get into that age bracket, your voice begins to deteriorate to the point that it becomes a negative factor on a broadcast. Just look at how John Facenda's voice began to deteriorate in about 1980 or '81, and by his final works in 1984, he had a very difficult time finishing his lines, and Facenda was not much older than Jenkins is now (Facenda was in his early 70s when he died in September of 1984). And FOX might have to look at replacing Mike Joy and Darrell Waltrip for that very reason in the near future. Joy is 64 years old and Waltrip, like Jenkins, is 66, and will be 67 when he next takes the air for next year's Daytona 500. The signing of Rick Allen to do NBC's lead was a crushing one for FOX, because FOX intended for Allen to replace Joy on their NASCAR coverage in the not too distant future, and had been grooming him to do so. Now, they'll have to look for someone else to replace Joy, and I don't know who they could be looking at now to fill Joy's seat. 1113. Sean posted: 12.06.2013 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sean, you just contradicted yourself in your comparison of both Parsons and Jeff Burton. The truth is that L.G. DeWitt's team was one of just two or three top teams that ran Chevrolets in the early and mid 70s, with the others being the Richard Howard/Junior Johnson team and Bobby Allison's team in 1973-''74, and even calling Allison's team a top-notch team is stretching it." Disagree. L.G. DeWitt was far from any kind of powerhouse team owner until Benny Parsons arrived there. John Sears may have had several top ten points finishes but that was in an era when there weren't many drivers attempting to run anything resembling the full schedule. Look at Sears's laps led, a more accurate measure of performance. He led a combined 154 laps in 187 starts for the team. Either Sears was just an abysmal driver or the team wasn't really that strong. Parsons MADE the team what it was - got the team's first win, first title, and turned into a perennial top five, fairly dominant team. That merits high praise. By THAT point it was one of the top teams in the series, but was it when he entered the car? No. Roush and Childress had already had plenty of success before Burton arrived there. I'm not contradicting myself unless you can explain to me how DeWitt was any sort of powerhouse owner before he arrived there. Did Sears just suck THAT MUCH? Somehow I doubt that. "On the other hand, Jeff Burton was a top competitor in the late 90s and early 2000s, during a part of NASCAR's most competitive era, winning 17 times from 1997-'01. Only three drivers, Jeff Gordon, Dale Jarrett, and Mark Martin had more. But Burton fell victim to Roush's youth movement in 2002 and didn't win again until 2006, so we don't know how much Burton might have been able to do if Roush hadn't basically put him out to pasture. Sure, Burton drove for a lower-level team when he drove the Stavola Brothers' #8 car, but nobody ever did well in that car after Dick Trickle in 1992. Burton had one great run in that car in the spring race at Atlanta in 1994 and Hut Stricklin did the same in the 1996 Southern 500, but that was it after 1992. Even Sterling Marlin, who won 10 times and nearly won the championship in 2002 after departing that team, struggled badly in the Stavola Brothers equipment in 1993." Marlin did much better than Burton for the Stavola Brothers. He was 15th in points in the #8 in 1993 (including hilariously flipping his car and finishing in the top ten in the Daytona 500), then the team steadily got worse under Burton (24th and 32nd) until Hut Stricklin IMPROVED on Burton (22nd). The Stavola Brothers is not a good argument for Burton. STRONGLY DISAGREE that 1997-2001 was NASCAR's most competitive period. The years directly before that and after that were the more competitive periods. We've had this argument before and will apparently never agree. The most successful drivers of the TRUE most competitive period in NASCAR (1985-1995ish) were Dale Earnhardt, Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, Darrell Waltrip, Tim Richmond, Harry Gant, Davey Allison, Alan Kulwicki, Mark Martin, Ernie Irvan, Ricky Rudd, Geoff Bodine, Terry Labonte, and Jeff Gordon. In the late '90s, ALL those drivers except Gordon and Martin were either retired, dead, or no longer in their prime (I measure a driver's prime based on whether drivers are considered serious championship contenders or are expected to win multiple races a season. In that sense, guys like Earnhardt and Wallace were NOT in their prime). That essentially left a power vacuum where the five major drivers (Gordon, Martin, Dale Jarrett, Bobby Labonte, and Jeff Burton) had very little week-in, week-out competition from anyone. When the onslaught of major rookies emerged (Stewart, Kenseth, Kurt Busch, Harvick, Newman, Johnson, Biffle, etc...) Jarrett, B. Labonte, and Burton were increasingly lost. All the drivers who peaked in the late '90s have inflated win totals because NASCAR was going through its SHALLOWEST period because guys like Elliott, Rudd, G. Bodine, Irvan, etc..., and even Earnhardt and Wallace to a lesser degree were slowly fading from relevance. Not to mention that that era marked the serious beginning of the "haves" and "have-nots" in NASCAR and many of the drivers on the top teams were marginal talents (Dallenbach, Nadeau, Irwin, Lepage, Little, Benson, etc...) The era Burton and Bobby Labonte peaked was the shallowest since the early '80s, and for the same reason (in that era, Petty, Pearson, Yarborough, Parsons, etc... were beginning to fade as week-in, week-out threats, before Wallace, Elliott, Richmond, Rudd, Gant, Davey, etc... emerged in a big way to take the mantle from them.) Hence Darrell Waltrip and Bobby Allison piled on wins and had inflated win totals in the early '80s due to a relative lack of competition. When Johnson, Kenseth, etc... significantly age (probably about five years from now) NASCAR will go through another period like that and the drivers who dominate in that period will also have inflated win totals... This is one of the reasons why most people rate Earnhardt over Gordon, not just the titles. Waltrip and Gordon got consecutive 10 win seasons at their peaks because they had little competition, while Earnhardt didn't because he had TONS of competition. As emotionally unbalanced as they may be, I'll take a Kyle Busch, Carl Edwards, or Denny Hamlin at 100% (talent-wise) than a Rusty Wallace, Ricky Rudd, Geoff Bodine, or Ernie Irvan kind of going through the motions in the late '90s. Admittedly, all of them (even Rusty) had equipment issues then, but that still supports my point. Hendrick, Roush, and Yates had overwhelmingly dominant equipment then which inflated the results of all the drivers in those cars, and the little guys were no longer able to compete... The fact that some of those teams had some rather weak drivers in them at that point contributed to those five drivers piling on tons of wins in the late '90s... No matter how you argue it, Jeff Burton beating Dale Earnhardt and Rusty Wallace in the late '90s when they were declining is not as significant as Bill Elliott and Rusty Wallace battling him for titles in the late '80s/early '90s. No way. Charlie Kimball beat Dario Franchitti in points this year! Driving for the same team! When it was clear that Dario wasn't the same as he was a few years ago! That must be as significant as all the drivers who beat him in the 2001 and 2002 CART seasons when he was in the middle of his prime! 1114. Sean posted: 12.06.2013 - 1:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR was going through its SHALLOWEST period" Shallowest period since the late '80s. Definitely the late '90s weren't the shallowest period overall. That would probably be the early '70s. 1115. Sean posted: 12.06.2013 - 1:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Early '80s, late '80s. Okay, I need to shut up now. When is this site going to get an edit function? I'd rather have that than a thumbs up/thumbs down button. 1116. Sean posted: 12.06.2013 - 1:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to say early '80s, not late '80s, but I think people get that now. But bleurggggh... How do I make so many stupid errors here? As much as I've criticized certain announcers in the last few posts, I wouldn't be an improvement! 1117. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.06.2013 - 7:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I'd argue that L.G. DeWitt's team wasn't elite until BP won the Daytona 500. John and Benny were quite similar statistically. Benny though was fortunate enough to be able to actually finish off a win. John had a sure-fire win at Langley Field in 1966 before a flat tire interfered. Then Benny improved on what he and John had already done in 1971 when he won, then the team put together its signature consistency to win the title in 1973, a year where the consistency that guys like Parsons, Sears, et al. had gave Cecil freaking Gordon a shot to win the title if he could win the finale at Rockingham. Don't forget that drivers today who got most of their wins in the last 10-17 years like Gordon, Johnson, Kenseth, Busches, Edwards, Stewart, Hamlin, etc. all have inflated win totals because they have WAY more races to win, plus guys who drive for Gibbs, Hendrick, and Roush can feast on the disproportionate amount of superspeedways and such around. Five of Carl Edwards, Kyle Busch, and Matt Kenseth's seasons equals 6 of Earnhardt, Yarborough, and Waltrip's seasons. The deepest fields were the 4-5 year bridges that separate the 70s and 80s and the 80s and 90s. Superspeedway races had 15-20 legitimate contenders in the 1960s. If the title was as important now as it was then, can you imagine what 1963 would have been like if Richard Petty, David Pearson, Junior Johnson, Ned Jarrett, Buck Baker, Bobby Isaac, Fireball Roberts, Rex White, Fred Lorenzen, Joe Weatherly, Jim Paschal, Jack Smith, Buddy Baker, Marvin Panch, Bob Welborn, Tiny Lund, Billy Wade, Wendell Scott, Bobby Johns, G.C. Spencer, and Nelson Stacy all ran full time? You are not going to tune into Phoenix next February (the first non-plate race) and watch David Gilliland start 3rd, lead 265 laps, and win before having a season of typical mediocrity with maybe two other top tens (see Rudd, 1998). Go back through the 90s and you will see lots of races led (many times through a legitimate green flag pass) by names like Steve Grissom, Kevin Lepage, Robert Pressley, etc. We've had only one driver in the last 5-10 years pull that kind of trick out of their sleeve, and that was Aric Almirola. With how the last 10 seasons have been, can you imagine what the 60s (with their points system) were run with a chase? You would have guys like Fred Lorenzen run their normal 15-20 races, get enough points to clinch a spot, rest, and then go hell-bent-for-leather the last 10 races and win the title, which is basically what happens nowadays. 1118. cjs3872 posted: 12.06.2013 - 12:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sean, I never said that 1997-2001 was NASCAR's most competitive period. I said it was part of it's most competitive period, especially in terms of drivers, and far more competitive than the period when Benny Parsons was a top driver and L.G. DeWitt's team was one of the better teams. The period from 1997-2001 was at, or near the end of that period I deem the most competitive, as far as top drivers go. I would place the beginning of that period at, or around 1984-'86. I just highlighted that five year period because that's where Jeff Burton was at his most successful, as only three drivers had more wins during those five years, but that era itself really lasted an entire generation, because there were more elite drivers during that period than in any period in NASCAR's entire history, and certainly more than there are now, or than there were in the 1970s, when there were only about 7-9 drivers that I would classify as elite. And I think there were more elite drivers in the 70s than there are now. 1119. David posted: 12.06.2013 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "When is this site going to get an edit function?" Not going to happen unless we have a registration system. 1120. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.06.2013 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm beginning to wonder if Bernie Eccelstone and Bruton Smith were seperated at birth, because they are the only people who would come up with ideas as dumb as that." They send eachother smoke signals who how too ruin their respective racing series. BTW Bernie is one of the reasons why i stopped watching F1 and continue too not watch it. "Here's another similar thing between them: Bernie has wanted F1 to go away from many traditional European tracks that have been on the schedule for decades (Monza, for example) in favor of newly-built tracks in the Asian and Middle-Eastern markets. Sounds familiar?" Yeeeeeeeeep, that sounds like Bruton too me. "In the long run, Tony George was probably worse than any of the above. Bear in mind that both F1 and NASCAR might be better today if CART was providing significant competition as it did in 1995, and F1, NASCAR, and IndyCar might have gone in less gimmicky routes as a result... IndyCar was much better than F1 and NASCAR competition-wise even last season, but the audience was too small to care." Yep, Indycar still hasn't recovered. I challenge people too findout Indycars TV Ratings, they are pathetic. BTW Bernie has been investgatied for bribery for the past 2 years and recently law auits are been thrown at him and they are sticking too him. So he'll be gone (maybe). 1121. 18fan posted: 12.06.2013 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Percentage of wins on Superspeedways (using R-R data, so any track 1 mile in length or greater): Sorted by number of wins Jeff Gordon: 71.59% (63/88) Jimmie Johnson: 80.30% (53/66) Tony Stewart: 70.83% (34/48) Matt Kenseth: 87.10% (27/31) Kyle Busch: 57.14% (16/28) Kurt Busch: 66.67% (16/24) Denny Hamlin: 69.57% (16/23) Kevin Harvick: 73.91% (17/23) Carl Edwards: 85.71% (18/21) Dale Earnhardt, Jr.: 78.95% (15/19) Compared to retired drivers from earlier eras: Richard Petty: 28% (56/200) 7 less superspeedway wins than Gordon and only 3 more than Johnson David Pearson: 48.57% (51/105) 2 less superspeedway wins than Johnson w/39 more wins Bobby Allison: 55.29% (47/85) Darrell Waltrip: 38.10% (32/84) Cale Yarborough: 57.83% (48/83) Very similar percentage to Kyle Busch Dale Earnhardt: 63.16% (48/76) Rusty Wallace: 43.64% (24/55) Ned Jarrett: 4% (2/50) Junior Johnson: 16% (8/50) Bill Elliott: 93.18% (41/44) Bobby Isaac: 13.51% (5/37) Fireball Roberts: 42.42% (14/33) Dale Jarrett: 87.50% (28/32) Very similar to Kenseth Rex White: 7.14% (2/28) Fred Lorenzen: 50% (13/26) Joe Weatherly: 24% (6/25) Only Bill Elliott, Dale Jarrett, Dale Earnhardt, and Cale Yarborough had a higher percentage of wins on superspeedways than the driver with the lowest percentage of wins on superspeedways among the top 10 in wins among active drivers (Kyle Busch). Interestingly only Gordon, Johnson, and Stewart rank in the top 10 in wins on oval tracks that are at least 1 mile in length. 1122. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.06.2013 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few weeks ago, I mentioned how anyone who wants to see a great racing movie needs to watch Senna. Well, ESPN Classic will air the 2 hour long movie multiple times this weekend, including tonight at 8 pm. I definitely recommend it to anyone who enjoys racing history. 1123. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.06.2013 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *10 pm tonight. 1124. joey2448 posted: 12.06.2013 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone watching the NASCAR Cup awards ceremony right now??? It's supposed to be on Fox Sports 2 right now but instead it's UFC...What the hell? 1125. joey2448 posted: 12.06.2013 - 9:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There we go! It's finally on. Holy hell, Clint Bowyer's fiance is smoking hot! 1126. murb posted: 12.06.2013 - 9:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Nascar Awards Ceremony? From how long this band is performing I could have sworn it was the Country Music Awards. 1127. joey2448 posted: 12.06.2013 - 9:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Best part of Jay Mohr's monologue so far...talking about NASCAR driver's nicknames, and referencing to Michael Waltrip as "Darrell Waltrip's brother". 1128. joey2448 posted: 12.06.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) HAHAHAHAH!!!! Danica looked none too pleased when Jay Mohr gave her some jabs! LOL 1129. murb posted: 12.06.2013 - 9:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Harvick must be asking Gene Haas if he has a grandson he can fight." LOL 1130. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 12.07.2013 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hopefully NBC's broadcast team lives up to all the excitement the fans (including me) are getting in looking forward to their return to covering NASCAR. Not only do you need intelligent commentary, but the guys you pair up have to have good chemistry. 1131. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.07.2013 - 7:03 am Rate this comment: (1) (2) Congratulations to Michael McDowell on winning the LASTCAR title this year. Credits to Brock Beard. 1132. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 12.07.2013 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good to see the majority of the speeches from the Awards Ceremony on YouTube since I missed the airing last night. 1133. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.07.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn must be doing cartwheels now as Auburn just torched the Missouri Defense after running for over 530 yards in the SEC Championship game. It doesn't matter if its on the track at Talladega in October with McMurray or in the Georgia Dome in the SEC Championship, Auburn is on fire. and now the wait... 1134. cjs3872 posted: 12.07.2013 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course Jarrett88fan, while their offense was great, scoring 59 points, giving up 42 may leave people wondering if they should play for the title if both Ohio State and Florida State win, because while the offense had to be great, the defense was probably suspect, though I didn't the game, I would assume a number of those points they gave up might have been in garbage time, but giving up 42 points, even if some were scored while playing out the string, doesn't look good, and I wonder if they might be penalized for giving up so many points, even if the game was wrapped up early. Of course, if either of the top two teams lose, then it becomes academic. 1135. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.07.2013 - 11:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Zachary Shawn, your boys are going to the championship game. Congrats. 1136. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.07.2013 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congratulations Zachary Shawn, I am happy for you and your university. Can't wait to watch Auburn in the BCS Championship game, they are a very fun team to watch. 1137. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.07.2013 - 11:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary* sorry 1138. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.08.2013 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CJS- I for one will be excited to see FSU's Jameis Winston go up against a pass rush and the best all-around team Florida State has faced all year. Early in the 1st quarter of the Duke-FSU game, Florida State receivers were getting out-physicaled by Duke(!!!) before depth of talent and strength took over. Michigan State gracefully put the nation out of the misery of watching a replay of the 2006-07' BCS National Championship games. Unfortunately for Ohio State, they might just end up playing Alabama in the Sugar Bowl if the Orange takes Clemson first and passes on OSU. 1139. Cornys posted: 12.08.2013 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Monday is the day of the big Charlotte test. Reduce downforce and/or side force or bust. Will they listen? I doubt it. 1140. Cornys posted: 12.08.2013 - 12:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, watch out. NBC is going to have the best race coverage of anybody. F1 coverage is pretty good, but NASCAR coverage is beginning to sound even better :D 1141. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.08.2013 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sadly, the Undertaker's Streak at Wrestlemania looks more legitimate than Ohio State's 24-0 run. After a devastating loss in the Big 10 Championship Game, what are the odds OSU pulls an Alabama ala 2009 Sugar Bowl and lose a BCS Bowl game? 1142. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 12.08.2013 - 1:16 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) How weak has Ohio State's schedule been? The last time they won a regular season game over a top 10 team, Jimmie Johnson had never won a NASCAR championship in his career. 1143. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.08.2013 - 1:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) OldSchoolNascarDude1, the most recent Ohio State win of consequence came against a 10-2 Arkansas in the 2011 Sugar Bowl. A Ryan Tannehill QBed Arkansas team that lost to Auburn and Alabama. One hilarious gem is on social media outlets, some Buckeye fans are touting the smell of Sugar once more. Unfortunately for them, the Sugar will likely take the Alabama Crimson Tide... so, run to the hills!!!!!!!!!!!! run for your life!!!!!!!!!! 1144. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.08.2013 - 1:57 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I was actually at the SEC Championship game. I'm estactic right now. 1145. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.08.2013 - 2:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary, Enjoy your team's success brother. The final BCSNCG has the makings of an excellent match-up. 1146. David posted: 12.08.2013 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Just saw the news about Auburn. Congratulations to Zackary Shawn and his team, and good luck to you in the championship game. 1147. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.08.2013 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Looks like we shall be in for a fascinating BCS title game. 1148. cjs3872 posted: 12.08.2013 - 11:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course, if Auburn's defense was as generous as it was against Missouri for most of the SEC Championship Game, they'll get blown out, just as every other opponent of Florida State has been. After all, Missouri's 42 points came in just three quarters. Last night, I watched a highlight package, and Auburn's defense was as bad as Missouri's was. FSU's offense will have a field day against that defense if it plays anything like it did last night. Remember that A.J. McCarron was tearing that defense to shreds before Nick Saban took the ball out of his hand late in the Alabama game. If Nick Saban had not taken the ball out of McCarron's hands, Alabama would undoubtedly won that game, and probably would have won it easily. The BCS Championship might be over by halftime if Auburn's defense is anywhere near as generous as it has been, because FSU's offense will take it apart in much the same way as Alabama and Missouri did. 1149. David posted: 12.08.2013 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wish we were getting the snow that they're having in Washington right now. 1150. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.08.2013 - 1:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) This Detroit-Philly game is awesome to watch. Football in a driving snowstorm and Philly fans getting snowed on. What could be better? 1151. The Long Shot posted: 12.08.2013 - 2:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Adrian Peterson carted back to the locker room with an apparent left ankle injury. It doesn't look too serious, but it's still a concerning situation for this Vikings team. 1152. cjs3872 posted: 12.08.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And by the way, it looks like Jeff Triplett and his crew are continuing their incompetency, as he overturned a call that was obviously correct in the Colts/Bengals game and ruled they play in question a Bengal TD, when it appeared obvious that the runner had been stopped on fourth down. Remember that it was Triplett and his crew that royally screwed up the finish of the Giants/Redskins game last Sunday Night when they failed to stop play when the down marker was incorrectly moved in the last 2 minutes. Now Triplett makes a horrendous overturn in a game that could be vitally important to playoff seeding, because the Colts and Bengals are currently tied, and with each just one game behind the Patriots, remember that both teams hold tiebreakers over the Patriots, the Colts due to a better division record and the Bengals due to a win over the Patriots. And we now just how important home field is, particularly to the Colts, due to all the bad weather that's broken out today (even San Diego may get it's share in the form of high winds in their contest with the Giants), and that screw-up could help to decide that game, and in turn, give the Bengals the edge over the Colts for what could be the #2 seed in the AFC playoffs if the Patriots falter down the stretch, and they're trailing at halftime against Cleveland and have a game in Baltimore still to come. 1153. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.08.2013 - 3:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think the Colts/Bengals call was so cut and dry, but based on the camera angles CBS showed, there's nothing really conclusive to merit overturning the ruling on the field either way. Sure the runner tripped at the moment the defender reached out, but you can't actually tell if there was contact or not. Maybe the officiating crew has access to better camera angles than CBS that showed there actually wasn't contact, but otherwise there wasn't really evidence that the call should have been overturned. I'm not really complaining because Andrew Luck is one of my least favorite players in the NFL, but the overturned call really surprised me. 1154. TS1420 posted: 12.08.2013 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a horrible sports season for me. -Stewart gets injured. -Overall mostly ho-hum racing on tracks longer than a mile the Cup side. -The Overall Kyle Busch vs The Penske 22 While Bullying/Trolling Nationwide Regulars Series. -Gordon gets weaseled into the Chase by NASCAR in a special 13th spot, once again proving the rulebook is written on a dry-erase board. -Johnson & Kenseth win the most races, with Johnson winning the championship. -Colts losing Reggie Wayne and falling apart afterwards. -OSU losing The Big Ten Championship Game. What next? A Dallas vs New England or San Diego Super Bowl where I hope it somehow ends in a 0-0 tie after ten OT's and nobody is awarded the Lombardi Trophy for 2013/2014? 1155. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.08.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) LOL at the Eagles defender who just ran himself out of breath because he didn't know the defense can't score off of a blocked PAT try. 1156. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) I just want to thank the Michigan State Spartans for exposing what those of us who weren't looking at it with scarlet and grey eyes already knew...Ohio State is not the #2 team in the nation. 1157. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Vikings-Ravens game is crazy, it's like a Madden big-play fest right now. 1158. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the Ravens will win, in large part because of a complete BS pass interference call against Chad Greenway, who was covering Dennis Pitta when he just slipped and fell. 1159. David posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though it didn't work, that was an amazing play by Pittsburgh. 1160. The Long Shot posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Minnesota ended up losing the game, but I really don't care. That was the best finish of a football game that I've ever seen, bar none. 1161. 18fan posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Shockingly, the Patriots get handed a game. Brady's record is inflated by how many games they have been handed. He even got handed a chance to play in his first Super Bowl. Plus the fact that he plays behind the best O-Line in football so he never gets touched definitely weakens him historically by a lot. Plus Matt Cassel won 11 games with the same team making him not look so amazing. 1162. 18fan posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The Patriots are clearly the Hendrick Motorsports of the NFL. They 99 times out of 100 they get the benefit of the doubt. 1163. Ched Little posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) ^Glad I'm not the only one feeling like some Pats games are blatantly fixed. Look at all these whiteouts in the 1PM games... 1164. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Patriots without a doubt should have a losing record. Their extremely good fortune is getting really ridiculous. They're going to get clobbered in the playoffs. 1165. TS1420 posted: 12.08.2013 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Another game the Patriots should have lost, only for the refs to bail their sorry asses out. 1166. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.08.2013 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This Detroit-Philly game is awesome to watch. Football in a driving snowstorm and Philly fans getting snowed on. What could be better?" Did they bring out Santa Claus so Philly fans can boo him? 1167. TS1420 posted: 12.08.2013 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Did they bring out Santa Claus so Philly fans can boo him?" Actually they brought out the Krampus and... they cheered him... ;) 1168. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.08.2013 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One thing I know...we MAY still lose the BCS National Championship, but Coach Malzahn WILL find a weakness in the Florida State offense and he WILL exploit it. At this point, I think history has proved it would be unwise to bet against the Auburn Tigers if they were playing against the Denver Broncos at this point. 1169. cjs3872 posted: 12.08.2013 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, if you think the Patriots got handed the game against the Browns today by the officials (I don't because they were going to score anyway), then you can say that evens out what happened to them in Carolina a few weeks ago when they got jobbed. But if the Browns had recovered that onside kick, the Patriots would have lost. And here's something interesting. The Patriots have games coming up against the Dolphins and the Ravens. Do they risk losing the #2 seed to the Bengals and try to lose to the Dolphins, just so that the Ravens, a team they may face in the playoffs, don't get in. After all, nothing against Ryan Tannehill and company, but would you rather face the Dolphins in the playoffs or the Ravens, the reigning champions? And by the way, Tannehill may becoming the next top-notch QB before anyone notices it, as he's beaten the Colts (when they were at full-strength), and now the Steelers on the road, as well as the Bengals, and despite all the turmoil (or possibly because of it), but in the next two or three years, the Dolphins could be right back to where Don Shula had them for so many years, among the elite teams in the NFL. But their win over the Steelers today, their first in Pittsburgh in 23 years when Chuck Noll was still coaching the Steelers, knocks them out of the picture. And by the way, don't look now, but if Aaron Rodgers were to return, the Green Bay Packers, who are now just a half game out of first place in the NFC North, might very well be a big threat in the NFC playoffs if they get in, because the Detroit Lions can't and Chicago Bears can't knock them out, and a Rodgers-led Packer team is a team nobody in the NFC wants to see in the playoffs, and that would include the Seahawks, 49ers, Saints, and Panthers. 1170. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.08.2013 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Seahawks, 49ers, Saints, and Panthers" Last I checked, 3 of those 4 teams has a history of routing Aaron Rodgers and the Packers every time they play against them. 1171. 18fan posted: 12.08.2013 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) The Panthers are in trouble. 1172. cjs3872 posted: 12.09.2013 - 12:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) But NicoRosbergFan, trust me, those other teams would much prefer the Lions or Bears over the Packers any day. At least the Packers, with Rodgers, are a known quantity that has won a Super Bowl recently that can strike fear into any of those other teams, but the Lions and Bears strike no such fear, so the 49ers, Seahawks, and Saints would much rather face the Lions or Bears than possibly have to deal with an Aaron Rodgers-led Packers team any day. That's one reason those same teams are glad that the Giants are now officially out of the picture. They'd take their chances with Dallas or Philadelphia, but they wanted no part of the Giants. The AFC teams batting for playoff positioning have the same quandary because the Patriots can actually make it much easier for the Dolphins to make it over the Ravens if they so desire, and every other team would much rather see the Dolphins get in over the Ravens. If the Patriots wanted to, they could lay down next week against the Dolphins, and the play tough against Baltimore because neither they, nor any other contending team want to see Baltimore get in. They'd much rather see Miami, or for that matter, San Diego or the Jets, who are also in contention for that final spot, get in rather than Baltimore, because the Ravens can scare anyone in the AFC playoff field, even Denver, who they were leading at halftime in the season opener. 1173. 18fan posted: 12.09.2013 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Patriots could lose the #2 seed to Cincinnati (based on head-to-head) if they wanted to make it easier for the Dolphins to make the playoffs over the Ravens. That would cost them a 1st round bye and give them only the Wild Card round at home. 1174. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.09.2013 - 3:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In honor of Auburn's turnaround, I'd like to start a new topic on here: Greatest Sports Comebacks (or turnarounds, feel good stories, etc. Doesn't necessarily have to be a zero to hero story or from season to season, it can be within a single event) A few from NASCAR (not in any particular order): 1) 2001 Kurt Busch to 2002 Kurt Busch. In 2001 he just seemed like another one of those guys who had success in a lower series that wouldn't translate to Cup. He went from a 27th place points finish with a DNQ to a 3rd place points finish with 4 wins in one season. 2) 2010 Brad Keselowski to 2011 Brad Keselowski. Even though he won a race as a part time driver in 2009, his first full time season was abysmal as he struggled to a 25th place finish in the points. The next year, he caught fire and won 3 races en route to a 5th place finish in the points. 3) 2001 Pepsi 400. Dale Jr. wins at the track where his father lost his life less than 5 months earlier. 4) Jimmie Johnson's entire career. If you had told me that a driver who was most famous for a spectacular crash at Watkins Glen in a Nationwide car would someday be a SIX TIME Cup champion, I would have laughed in your face and called you crazy. 5) 2011 Daytona 500. Honestly, I'm not even sure I had heard of Trevor Bayne until Speedweeks 2011. And of course, my favorite comeback of all time...the 2010 Iron Bowl. Alabama pulls away 24-0 very early in the first half, but Cam Newton does what Cam Newton does and led us to an eventual 28-27 victory. 1175. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.09.2013 - 6:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, the good news is the Panthers are with the Niners for the Wild Card, and we own the tiebreaker over them. Although they look to be peaking at the right time. If we can get the #5 seed, we would most likely play the winner of the NFC Least division (not a typo) while the surging #6 Niners would probably get the Bears or Lions, whoever wins the NFC MASH Unit division. That means if Carolina makes it to the second round, they would go to the Superdome and the #2 Saints where, despite last night's stinkbomb, we have a surprisingly good record since 2002, and not to Seattle and their piped in crowd noise. And if the Niners can somehow pull one out against their arch rivals, #1 Seattle, we could have a #5 vs #6 NFC title matchup in Charlotte! And the Super Bowl will be outside in New York, and the best bets from the AFC to get there are Peyton and the Broncos, and Peyton has never liked the cold or the playoffs and is only getting worse (I really thought this would be the year for Peyton Playoff One And Done #9, and his first one and done 3peat which i count because was injured for all of 2011), but I think Denver will win the AFC by default. New England just doesn't have it and Brady is not good in the cold anymore. Cincy and Indy just aren't that good, and the rest have losing records. Hey, a guy can dream right? 1176. The Sound posted: 12.09.2013 - 7:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why would you ever give up a chance for a playoff bye just to keep a specific opponent out if the playoffs? I do not care how talented said opponent is, you take take the bye and run. 1177. cjs3872 posted: 12.09.2013 - 9:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think it really matters to the Patriots whether or not they have to go on the road for their second round game or have a bye in the first round, especially if it means having to go to Cincinnati for a second round game. Indy is another question entirely, but that's now out of the question. Actually, recent history suggests that a team that doesn't have a bye may have as good a chance to get to the Super Bowl than a team that does have the first-round bye because a team with a bye can actually get rusty. After all, how many times over the years have we seen Peyton Manning get the bye and then lose in the first playoff game. And we've seen that happen to Tom Brady before as well. What happens is that, in the week the teams have off, they lose the timing and rhythm as a result of rust, and can't get it back before it's too late. Actually, the most recent Super Bowl was only the second in the last nine years without at least one of the teams having to play on Wild Card weekend. A rhythm team like the Patriots might lose that rhythm if they get the first round bye. The other side to that is that if the Ravens do get in, they might knock out Denver, just as they did last year, and the title game might end up being played in Foxboro if they do get the #2 seed. After all, I'm not sold on Denver, especially since they're going to get a first-round bye if they can hold on in the AFC West, which they should be able to do, and since that's a rhythm offense, they could lose that rhythm in the week off, and a team like Baltimore could go up to Denver and have a chance to win. The main reason I'm not sold on Denver is their generous defense, which could get them beat against a team like Cincinnati, which has a defense that can be stingy. Just ask the Patriots, who never scored a TD against the Bengals in their encounter earlier this season. You can be sure that Denver's rooting for Miami to get in just so they don't have to deal with the Ravens again, which they very well may have to do if Baltimore gets in, because Miami doesn't figure to be near the threat against Denver or New England that Baltimore can be. Ironically, the Patriots next two games are in Miami and Baltimore. 1178. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 12.09.2013 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hear that the 2014 aero package test scheduled for today at Charlotte was rained out and being moved to Wednesday. Supposedly, JJ will not be participating in said test; Knaus was going to sit in a suite and watch everyone else from Hendrick though. 1179. 12345Dude posted: 12.09.2013 - 3:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow a lot of new and very large F1 rules. A cap on the amount of money an F1 team can spend: But how can they successful enforce this. There is going to be too much money "under the table" imo, I can't see how this could work properly, but it's a good idea. The Final F1 race of the season will be worth double the points: I can't stand the Chase but I actually really like this idea, and would rather have this any day then the Chase, and would actually recommend this but there is 2 problems. 1. The season finale must be at a new track every 1-3 years because if not Abu Dhabi becomes way too important. 2. A very scary part is mechanical problems or wrecks. HUGE problem. A guy you were facing in the title hunt wins and get's 50 points while you have a mechanical problem and get 0 points. But I still like this idea for some reason because it adds so much excitement to the season finale. But still the freak mechanical/crash chances is worry some. And the event needs to be changed every few years. Set car numbers for a driver's full F1 career: Like this idea, a certain number being represented with a driver. It works. Richard Petty #43, Dale Earnhardt #3, Jimmie Johnson #48, Jeff Gordon #24. Five Second Penalties: I guess this is because the current F1 penalties are too harsh. I don't follow F1 so I'm not sure exactly what it means. I'll just quote what autosport said about it. "One of the criticisms of penalties in F1 of late has been over their severity, with a drive-through the minimum applicable punishment. A five-second penalty is a good way to tackle this. Ideally, some way to implement such a penalty needs to be found that does not leave cars out of position with a virtual race time to allow racing to continue as before. This would require some kind of bespoke penalty lane, which would require a lot of work for circuits, so most likely it will just come down to a post-race time penalty. It will appease those critics who think penalties are too harsh. But it will lead to drivers battling each other when they are five seconds ahead or pulling off overtaking manoeuvres when on a different part of the track. Overall, this is a pragmatic rule and probably for the best." I probably shouldn't even be talking about F1 because I know so little. But I still think some of the new rules are cool. 1180. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.09.2013 - 3:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm not sold on Denver either, I'm just even less sold on the rest of the AFC. Even with Peyton who, even in his prime, was never good in cold weather or the playoffs, and is only getting worse, his typical mediocre playoff performances will be enough to get to the Super Bowl. In the AFC it is Denver, the Pats, and everyone else. And with the Super Bowl being outside in New York, possibly in a blizzard, whichever team makes it will be demolished by the NFC representative. The one takeaway I got from the much ballyhooed Brady-Peyton Bowl this year on that freezing night in Foxboro is just uncomfortable both were in the cold. If they have to go against an element tested team with a young QB like Russell Wilson, Colin K, Cam Newton, or even Nick Foles (he finally got his blizzard legs under him in the 4th quarter yesterday after 3 putrid quarters) they are done. Their best hope is to face Drew Brees and the Saints who are a terrible cold weather team. But they will need Seattle to be knocked off in the second round and get the NFC title game in the dome. Even then they would have to beat the Panthers and/or the Niners at home which won't be easy. But even if they do make it, they should win handily over Denver or the Pats. 1181. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.09.2013 - 3:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Final F1 race of the season will be worth double the points: I can't stand the Chase but I actually really like this idea, and would rather have this any day then the Chase, and would actually recommend this but there is 2 problems." How is this a good thing? It's basically the same thing as the chase: gimmicky. If they're going to include double points for any Grand Prix, it should be Monaco, which the biggest race they have. Otherwise they're following suit with NASCAR and adding gimmicky entertainment. If I went into the last race the leader and I lost the title due to this, I'd be pretty angry. It seems like they are doing this just hoping that Vettel loses one of these titles by finding ways he can lose it. 1182. cjs3872 posted: 12.09.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, let's not count out Aaron Rodgers and the Packers if he comes back, but that's still a BIG if. But what you say about cold, or bad weather QBs is another reason why Baltimore is still a major threat in the AFC if they get in. Because, aside from Brady and Rodgers, Joe Flacco may be the best bad/cold weather QB in the game today (yes, I think he may be better in that regard than even Ben R'berger). And if Baltimore gets in, they'll be a major threat because of their vast experience, having gone to three AFC Championship Games in the last five years, not to mention winning the most recent Super Bowl. It's true that they're not nearly as good as they were last year, but they're finally getting healthy, while Denver and New England are going the other way in that regard, and that's one team nobody else from the AFC wants to see get in. Not Denver, not New England, and not Cincinnati, who I think is a significant threat themselves, especially if they were to overtake New England for the #2 seed. They just need to find a way to win in the playoffs. And now with Gronkowski out in New England and Wes Welker having concussion problems of his own in Denver (two in the last month), Cincinnati's and Baltimore's chances are improving, and if the Ravens get in the playoffs, they could do what the Patriots did in '01 (winning it all after starting 5-5), the Steelers did in '05 (winning it all as the last team to get in after starting 5-5), and the Giants did in '07 (also as the last team to get in), and go all the way, at least to the Super Bowl. I certainly would not pick Baltimore to get there, but if they get in, they're a major threat in the AFC, and the other teams know it. 1183. cjs3872 posted: 12.09.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And also, even if they get home field advantage, which they should, I don't think Seattle will make it to the Super Bowl. Not because I don't think they're good enough, but because Pete Carroll has proven himself not to be trustworthy in big games, and because of the makeup of the roster. And what I mean by that is that Seattle simply makes too many mistakes, especially in the penalty department, and tend to be too aggressive with how their defensive backs play. If you put them against a disciplined team, there's a very good chance that the Seahawks will beat themselves. A top-flight QB is likely to burn that Seahawk secondary if they get too aggressive, either on long pass plays or by drawing penalties, and the Seahawks are one of the most penalized teams in the NFL, if not THE most penalized team, and that's going to get them beat in the playoffs. If they play against a team with an elite-level passing game, the Seahawks' greatest defensive strength is likely to turn against them, because it will create big plays and penalties that may cause them to lose. The best draw they can hope for is Carolina and San Francisco, because neither has that good a passing game, but if they end up having to play against a team with a top-notch QB, their secondary can get taken advantage of. Heck, even Tampa Bay was having their way with Seattle for most of their match-up during their 8-game losing steak to start the season. But I don't think one of the other top teams (NO, SF, PHI, CAR, GB with Aaron Rodgers) has to beat Seattle, because they might beat themselves with penalties and other mistakes. I actually like New Orleans and San Francisco when the playoffs start more than I like Seattle. That is assuming the 49ers actually get in, which is far from certain with teams like Philadelphia and Arizona lurking, and the 49ers end the season with a game with the Cardinals, which could be for the final NFC Wild Card berth. 1184. pimmy posted: 12.09.2013 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Aaahh, the FIA are being dumb again. They really make NASCAR look like geniuses sometimes. I have no problem with the fact that that Le Mans is worth double points in WEC, due to the fact that it's the jewel-in-the-crown event and is 4 times longer than the other races on the calendar. But to introduce the same rule in F1 is ridiculous, considering that every race (except Monaco) is more or less the same length and are all equally tough on the teams and drivers and Abu Dhabi isn't even a marquee event. It's just a cheap attempt at spicing up the season finale. Having said that, I do like that they are at least trying to cut-down on spending even though it will be very hard to police. I like the proposal of the new numbering system as well. 1185. Sean posted: 12.09.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How is this a good thing? It's basically the same thing as the chase: gimmicky. If they're going to include double points for any Grand Prix, it should be Monaco, which the biggest race they have. Otherwise they're following suit with NASCAR and adding gimmicky entertainment. If I went into the last race the leader and I lost the title due to this, I'd be pretty angry. It seems like they are doing this just hoping that Vettel loses one of these titles by finding ways he can lose it." Unfair is the word I'd use, not gimmicky. Here is something I just wrote on Racer like an hour ago regarding Formula E's decision to allow fans to vote on which driver gets an extra push-to-pass, which I find completely ridiculous: "Because it's not fair. A gimmick can be fair if it is not biased. The chase, F1 doubling points for the final race, IndyCar's doubleheaders, etc... are not fair because they benefit drivers who excel on specific tracks rather than over the entire schedule. Double-file restarts are unfair (the way NASCAR executes them at least) because they harshly penalize drivers on the non-preferred line. DRS and traditional push-to-pass are fair since every driver can use them the same way. NASCAR's lucky dog can be considered fair because anybody can benefit from it if they are in the position to use it... In other words, there are lots of things that can be considered gimmicks that would not be considered purist that are still fair. When you allow a competition gimmick and do not allow every driver to use it equally, it no longer is about skill or strategy and instead is about marketing, and there's too much of that in racing already. Even NASCAR, as gimmicky as they are, only uses fan voting in its all-star race. A real purist would hate all gimmicks. I don't necessarily. Just don't allow certain drivers to use them more than others or else the racing cannot be taken seriously. And I do want to love this series... Having said that, if they are only allowing a single additional push-to-pass for one driver, it is unlikely to make much difference, but I am not the only one who struggles to take the series seriously for announcing something like this." Fair gimmicks can exist, if they are not biased and are officiated equally for all drivers on all tracks... But doubling the points for the final Formula One race is just as biased as the Chase for essentially the same reason: it is too biased towards drivers who excel on a small subset of tracks. It's arguably worse since it's just a specific track rather than a set of ten that may come a BIT closer to being representative of the entire schedule. On the flip side, they're at least not equalizing the points at any given point. 1186. Sean posted: 12.09.2013 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have no problem with the fact that that Le Mans is worth double points in WEC, due to the fact that it's the jewel-in-the-crown event and is 4 times longer than the other races on the calendar. But to introduce the same rule in F1 is ridiculous, considering that every race (except Monaco) is more or less the same length and are all equally tough on the teams and drivers and Abu Dhabi isn't even a marquee event. It's just a cheap attempt at spicing up the season finale." Correct. In a sports car series, the marquee races (24 Hours of Le Mans, 24 Hours of Daytona, 12 Hours of Sebring) are probably more significant than the season championships because they tend to attract many more cars, many more drivers (including lots of non-sports-car entries), have much longer distances, etc... They are substantially different from the other races on the schedule. If IndyCar decided to more heavily weight the Indy 500, I could live with it for similar reasons, but I'd prefer for all IndyCar races to have the same weight in the points standings (and I hate hate hate bonus points for qualifying at Indy and Iowa...if you're going to have a single bonus point for the pole everywhere else, it should be the same at every track). I especially think all NASCAR races should have the same weight, particularly considering most of the "marquee races" have little to do with talent when compared to the ovals shorter than 1.5 miles and the road courses... 1187. Sean posted: 12.09.2013 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I meant to say "non-sports-car specialists", not "non-sports-car entries" in the previous post. 1188. TS1420 posted: 12.09.2013 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Supposedly, JJ will not be participating in said test; Knaus was going to sit in a suite and watch everyone else from Hendrick though." CK: Hey guys. You do all the work. While Jimmie is off with his family gallivanting around NYC, I'm gonna sit in this suite and eat from a buffet during the test and then swoop in and take all your notes afterwards back at the shop. Hendrick Motorsports - In a nutshell. 1189. David posted: 12.09.2013 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Final F1 race of the season will be worth double the points" Holy defecating Pirelli tyres! Like it or not, this won't change much. It was clearly intended to give others (namely, those not named Sebastian Vettel) a better shot at the title. But this isn't like the points system change in 2003 that was meant to prevent Michael Schumacher from winning the title so easily. That change was, quite frankly, hasty and ill-advised. Sure, the increase in points awarded to the second-place from 6 to 8 would decrease one's lead if one won frequently. But the FIA didn't even consider the flip side of the hypothetical. If Schumacher wins an overwhelming majority of the rounds, then he'll win the title anyway, no matter how many points are awarded for second. AND, if Schumacher finishes second, then he benefits from the two extra points, making the rule change in the first place a moot point. The FIA only addressed the problem via a one-sided solution that wasn't going to work anyway. The only thing that changed was with how many rounds left that Schumacher locked up the title. I suppose that's called "treating the symptom and not the disease". As crazy as it sounds, maybe they should have tried INCREASING the gap between first and second, because, unlike 2002, Schumacher lost more races than he won in 2003. That probably wouldn't have worked, either, but it at least wouldn't have looked so obvious that they were trying to prevent Schumacher from beating the field into submission again. Maybe they should have looked into trying to increase the parity in the on-track competition instead of taking shots in the dark with the points system, hoping something would work. This change of doubling the points awarded in the final round? Gimmicky, but ultimately inconsequential, considering that Red Bull will likely be unfazed by the new car and Vettel will dominate yet again. Overall, I'm a bit indifferent towards the change. Teams will plan accordingly for it (like NASCAR teams do for the Chase), and they'll still have to be in mathematical contention, after all. As for the new numbering system, all I have to say is this: when do the drivers get to choose the numbers? 1190. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 12.09.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) About the new F1 rules: Double points: This is beyond dumb especially since in the F1 points system they don't account for DNF's or even an occasional bad race to the extent NASCAR does. This is going to probably affect the manufacturer's points more so than the drivers title. The teams make the bulk of their money from those standings and even a backmarker team that can scrape together a point or two could be out of tens of millions of dollars if another backmarker picks up a 9th or 10th in the final race due to attrition. Didn't Bernie want to have a points system based solely on wins a couple years ago?!? Driver #'s: I think that down the road, probably as soon as 2015, the teams will have some say as to what number they will want to use for their own or sponsor's marketing purposes akin to the Wood Brothers 21, Yates 28 or Red Bull 83 in NASCAR/IndyCar. Cost cap: I've seen nothing specific as to whether it applies to the entire budget, or a certain aspect of the team's budget(salaries, engineering, etc.). I'm sure the big teams will only have to pare off an extra tea or cappucino from their expenses. Penalties: Makes sense for a minor penalty without having to cost a team their entire race for having to drive through; especially in the last few laps when strategy can't be used to make up 20-25 seconds going through pit lane. 1191. David posted: 12.09.2013 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Formula E's decision to allow fans to vote on which driver gets an extra push-to-pass" That is without a doubt the most completely absurd rule I have ever seen. It even tops the 1973 Formula Two points system. Which means if Brian France ever hears about it, he'll implement a fan vote during each green flag run to select the free pass recipient for the next caution. 1192. 12345Dude posted: 12.09.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How is this a good thing? It's basically the same thing as the chase: gimmicky. If they're going to include double points for any Grand Prix, it should be Monaco, which the biggest race they have. Otherwise they're following suit with NASCAR and adding gimmicky entertainment. If I went into the last race the leader and I lost the title due to this, I'd be pretty angry. It seems like they are doing this just hoping that Vettel loses one of these titles by finding ways he can lose it." The chase is awful, as it is currently with a 26 race open test session. The chase can be an excellent idea if you give tons of bonus points on regular season success (making the first 26 races insanely important, and the chase insanely important) Or change 3/5 chase tracks every year, so the whole season doesn't only depend on 10 tracks and the rest are almost meaningless unless your a chase bubble guy who 99% chance won't contend for the title. If your too worried about changing the chase tracks frequently might mess up people who are making plans to go to a certain track every year - then just make regular season success very, very important with tons of bonus points. The F1 season finale double points can work, if they change the season finale race every year. "But doubling the points for the final Formula One race is just as biased as the Chase for essentially the same reason: it is too biased towards drivers who excel on a small subset of tracks." It can be done perfectly though Sean. The season finale will always get double points, but the season finale will be a different track every single year. So each track eventually would get the season finale once and then repeat. Then it still adds tons of excitement for the finale and makes it feel even more special than what it does now, and they make it fair. 1193. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.09.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "The Final F1 race of the season will be worth double the points" Yeah because Vettel has already locked the title up. Seriously like with Jimmie, it is up too everyone else too step up and beat his @$$. "Because it's not fair. A gimmick can be fair if it is not biased. The chase, F1 doubling points for the final race, IndyCar's doubleheaders, etc... are not fair because they benefit drivers who excel on specific tracks rather than over the entire schedule. Double-file restarts are unfair (the way NASCAR executes them at least) because they harshly penalize drivers on the non-preferred line. DRS and traditional push-to-pass are fair since every driver can use them the same way. NASCAR's lucky dog can be considered fair because anybody can benefit from it if they are in the position to use it..." I agree with this. "In other words, there are lots of things that can be considered gimmicks that would not be considered purist that are still fair. When you allow a competition gimmick and do not allow every driver to use it equally, it no longer is about skill or strategy and instead is about marketing, and there's too much of that in racing already. Even NASCAR, as gimmicky as they are, only uses fan voting in its all-star race." You forgot that NASCAR has a fan council Sean. Fans vote every month with serveys that NASCAR sends too them for "research." "Aaahh, the FIA are being dumb again. They really make NASCAR look like geniuses sometimes." This is wow NASCAR would be like under Bernies rule: Cars would have V4's with turbos Steering wheels that costs 75,000$ Flappy padel gearboxes Drivers would have no personality at all (when you think of the FIA, think of the Borg from Star Trek.) Would run ONLY on road courses (no ovals at all) Drivers can't celebrate at all (that includes burnouts and donuts and taking the checkered flag for a victory lap) If you hit the wall your car will shattered into a billion pieces All tradition goes out the window (F1 has done better job at leaving its roots then NASCAR has) All cars are the same color You can't block anyone or something bad will happen too you Team budgets would be not in the 10ths of millions of dollars, more like 100s of millions of dollars Now if you'll excuse me, i'm gonna go watch old F1 videos too make myself feel better. 1194. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.09.2013 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a catch! I know we give Tony Romo hell for Dallas' December woes, mainly because Romo is a fun guy to pick on, but the truth is their failures are a result of total organizational ineptitude, led by Jerry Jones. Remember, Troy Aikman, one of the best QBs ever, only had one playoff win from 1996 onwards. 1195. cjs3872 posted: 12.09.2013 - 10:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Can anyone else believe it? The spectacular TD catch by Alshon Jeffery in the corner of the end zone to put the Bears up 24-14 on the Cowboys was the 100th in the NFL this week. 100 TDs in the NFL in a single week. Does anyone else find that as amazing as I do? That's more than six per game for every game this week. 1196. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.09.2013 - 10:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Cars would have V4's with turbos" Lol, they would sound just like those Goody's Dash cars that raced about 10-15 years ago. In all honesty, Bernie has said that he didn't want to have turbocharged V6s next year, kind of how he didn't want the V10s to go away in favor of V8s in 2006. I guess he's just not the one who makes those decisions. 1197. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.09.2013 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While on the topic of engines, does anyone else have a favorite engine used in F1? In my opinion, the V10s were always amazing to hear; they were loud and fast. I guess, though, that any engine sounds better than the ones we'll hear in the Formula E Series next year. If anyone hasn't heard them, they have a high pitched squeel that sounds like nails on a chalkboard. 1198. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.09.2013 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) What is even more amazing cjs is the conditions under which a lot of the games were played under. It was a full blown blizzard in Philly and also had major snow and freezing rain in Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and Washington. And tonight in Chicago it is 7 degrees, and 7 below with the wind chill. Speaking of playoff and Super Bowl chances, these Bears have some serious cold weather skills. If Cutler stays injured, they could be a sleeper. Here is DSFF's definitive guide to the playoffs this year: AFC Denver: I still think they have the best chance to win the AFC, basically by default, even with mounting issues and a QB who has never been good in the playoffs or bad weather. And they can win the Super Bowl if the following things happen: the NFC representative fires their coach after the NFC title game and hires Marty Schottenheimer, Peyton gets replaced by 1960's era Bart Starr (best bad weather QB ever), and Wes Welker and John Fox both retire. New England: Brady only has a slight amount of cold weather chops left and his already depleted team keeps getting even thinner. But if Denver keeps slipping they could be the ones to win the AFC and fet blown out in the Super Bowl. Cincy/Indy: They will win their respective divisions and probably lose their first playoff game. Baltimore: Very depleted because of Flacco's contract which killed their cap, but have the bad weather chops, and the belief they can win all the close, wild ones because they always have. That mental edge is definitely worth something. KC: They can beat the bad teams, so they might can win a Wild Card game. NY Jets: D-O-N-E! DONE! DONE! DONE! DSFF's pre season Super Bowl champion pick Houston Texans: I don't think they will win the Super Bowl this year, I may have missed the boat. NFC Seattle: Best bet to win it all (Ben Lowe called this before the season). Looking homefield in the playoffs in the eyes and a matchup with an AFC team in the Super Bowl should they make it, they are oozing talent and hungry. They need to keep winning and make sure New Orleans has to come to Seattle. Not a great road team. New Orleans: A bad road team and bad weather team. They need somebody to upset Seattle, or for Seattle to fade in these last games and make the NFC go through the dome. Otherwise they are sunk. Can still win the Super Bowl if they get there outside in the cold because the AFC is that bad. Philly/Chicago: Two sleepers because of their bad weather abilities and the way they are coming around. My picks to win their divisions, and each could upset Seattle or NO on the road, but unlikely. Carolina: The enigma. Had a great winning streak, and Cam seems to have matured. But questions remain: Did they peak too soon? Will the blowout in the dome affect them mentally? Has Cam really matured, will he regress, and does he have NFL post season chops? When playing their best they can upset anyone, and if they can get on another roll, look out. But they can also lay an egg at unexpected times. San Fran: Peaking at the right time after a sluggish start. Can handle the elements and seem to have overcome the Super Bowl loss hangover. Definitely a Wild Card in more ways than one. Detroit: Will need help from Chicago and good weather to make the playoffs. Dallas: It's December and it's Jerry's team. I don't like their chances to make it. My Super Bowl prediction: Seattle- 52 Denver- 3 1199. joey2448 posted: 12.10.2013 - 12:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn, not only are the Bears a good bad-weather team, but they play well in primetime games in front of a national audience. That's their fourth game (and win) in a Sunday, Monday or Thursday night game this season. Their defense still sucks, but if their offense plays like they did tonight, then they can win the NFC North and maybe make some noise in the playoffs. Unfortunately I still can't see them going to the Super Bowl, especially because of their horrid defense. Bear down baby! 1200. 18fan posted: 12.10.2013 - 5:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Bears have tied the NFL record for most consecutive games allowing an individual 100+ yard rusher. 1201. joey2448 posted: 12.10.2013 - 7:21 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I think one of the most enjoyable things I've been able to do so far in the racing offseason is read up on old historical racetracks, and I highly encourage anyone to read some of the features on the below link: http://www.speedhunters.com/category/specialfeatures/templeofspeed/ Its' really fascinating to me to see some of the remains of abandoned tracks and testing facilities, such as Brooklands in England, the Autodrome de Linas-Montlhéry and Rouens les-Essarts in France, and the Opel Rennbahn and AVUS in Germany. I'd like to plan a grand tour through Europe and stop at most of these old racetracks/testing grounds someday! In fact, I've compiled a list of racing-related places I'd like to visit someday: -Monza (the banking!) -Nurburgring (Nordschleife) -Osterreichring (now called the Red Bull Ring) -Hockenheim -Spa Francorchamps -Interlagos (especially the old track that isn't used anymore) -Imola (of course as a Senna tribute) -Brands Hatch -Bathurst (Mount Panorama) -Circuit de Reims (what's left of it) -Circuit de la Sarthe (Le Mans) 1202. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.10.2013 - 7:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And don't forget the legendary streets of Sicily used for decades for the Targa Florio, an event so big even the Formula 1 drivers scheduled their season around it. 1203. cjs3872 posted: 12.10.2013 - 8:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I don't like Seattle when the playoffs begin for reasons I've already mentioned. I just think that either Pete Carroll will find a way to screw it up, or the Seahawks, who are a very talented, but not a very disciplined team, will find a way to beat themselves. I don't you can think win a championship with a team that's the most penalized in the game, and they're among the most penalized teams in the NFL, if not THE most penalized team in the NFL. Also, the way they like to play defense, especially the DBs, is something that a top-notch QB may be able to take advantage of and either beat them deep or cause them to commit numerous penalties, which I think will get them beat in the end. When the Saints lost up there, the Seahawks committed three or four penalties on one scoring drive. The Seahawks' lack of discipline is something that a team like the 49ers, Saints, or even the Eagles can take advantage of. The crowd definitely gives the Seahawks an edge, but the fact that Russell Wilson has not lost a game at home (he's 15-0 at home in his brief NFL career) would also bother me if I was a Seahawk fan, because the law of averages is bound to catch up with him sooner or later, and the playoffs would be the worst time for that to happen. 1204. We need more Onion posted: 12.10.2013 - 8:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "-Circuit de Reims (what's left of it)" Well, it is now only boring freshly paved public roads and the old pit buildings, not much else. The legendary Targa Florio, mentioned by NRF, the Pau street venue and the picturesque Clermont-Ferrand circuit are better places to visit imo. 1205. murb posted: 12.10.2013 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) James Finch plans on entering a car in the Daytona 500. lol, He's the Mark Martin/Brett Favre of car owners. 1206. David posted: 12.10.2013 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) ^Martin will probably end up driving. 1207. David posted: 12.10.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Autosport did an article that went back and calculated the points for close F1 battles in history with the double-points finale rule. The title would have changed hands ten times, assuming that things had stayed the same (which is by no means a safe assumption). 1953 actual: 1. Alberto Ascari - 34.5 2. Juan Manuel Fangio - 28 1953 revised: 1. Juan Manuel Fangio - 37 2. Alberto Ascari - 34.5 1956 actual: 1. Juan Manuel Fangio - 30 2. Stirling Moss - 27 1956 revised: 1. Stirling Moss - 36 2. Juan Manuel Fangio - 32 1958 actual: 1. Mike Hawthorn - 42 2. Stirling Moss - 41 1958 revised: 1. Stirling Moss - 50 2. Mike Hawthorn - 48 1970 actual: 1. Jochen Rindt - 45 2. Jacky Ickx - 40 1970 revised: 1. Jacky Ickx - 49 (very likely would not have happened, considering the circumstances) 2. Jochen Rindt - 45 1979 actual: 1. Jody Scheckter - 51 2. Gilles Villeneuve - 47 1979 revised: 1. Gilles Villeneuve - 56 2. Jody Scheckter - 51 1981 actual: 1. Nelson Piquet - 50 2. Carlos Reutemann - 49 3. Alan Jones - 46 1981 revised: 1. Alan Jones - 55 2. Nelson Piquet - 52 3. Carlos Reutemann - 49 1984 actual: 1. Niki Lauda - 72 2. Alain Prost - 71.5 1984 revised: 1. Alain Prost - 80.5 2. Niki Lauda - 78 2003 actual: 1. Michael Schumacher - 93 2. Kimi Raikkonen - 91 2003 revised: 1. Kimi Raikkonen - 99 2. Michael Schumacher - 94 (How ironic that I was talking about this season earlier, and the double-points finale changes the outcome.) 2008 actual: 1. Lewis Hamilton - 98 2. Felipe Massa - 97 2008 revised: 1. Felipe Massa - 107 2. Lewis Hamilton - 102 2012 actual: 1. Sebastian Vettel - 281 2. Fernando Alonso - 278 2012 revised: 1. Fernando Alonso - 296 2. Sebastian Vettel - 289 Aren't numbers fun? 1208. murb posted: 12.10.2013 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^Martin will probably end up driving." lol. I'm actually guessing Bobby Labonte, since he has a Past Champ's Provisional. 1209. jabber1990 posted: 12.10.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought about this, ever think that maybe James Finch is pulling a publicity stunt? we all know how he wants a Lowes-Caliber sponsor for an entire season, so he's going to build the car, offer the driver a Daytona Ride, and then some sponsor will show up, give him either a sponsorship for 1, 2, 5 races, or offer a full 36-race deal with a blank check and he'll be back or so he wishes, I could be wrong though 1210. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.10.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The apron is coming back to Indianapolis Motor Speedway. 1211. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.10.2013 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The crowd definitely gives the Seahawks an edge, but the fact that Russell Wilson has not lost a game at home (he's 15-0 at home in his brief NFL career) would also bother me if I was a Seahawk fan, because the law of averages is bound to catch up with him sooner or later, and the playoffs would be the worst time for that to happen." Cut to 2004 Steelers fans nodding sadly. Hey, speaking of the final race being worth double points, can we do this for NASCAR in 1989 and 1995 just to make me feel better. 1212. cjs3872 posted: 12.10.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope not SpeedWorld97, because they're just asking for trouble if they do that. Remember that the apron was taken out because it had become a safety hazard, in more ways than one. Not to mention that driers were actually being penalized for using it so they wouldn't short-cut the corners, like Mario Andretti was in 1991, and like NASCAR was threatening to do in 1996. All bringing it back will do is to move the groove lower, because it won't widen it at all. Not to mention the fact that it's going to increase lap speeds for both the NASCAR and IndyCars by about 5-7 MPH, which in turn will make the crashes worse. Remember they took the apron out because in that first NASCAR group session, they were running on the edge of the grass. One thing removing he apron did was to force the drivers to run the track exactly as it was originally intended to be run. Now what will happen is that the groove will just move down. And what about cars entering and exiting the pits. That's another safety hazard because cars entering the pits might be in the way and cars exiting the pits will now be in the racing groove. That's a terrible idea by IMS, because I don't think anything good can come from it. 1213. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.10.2013 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, here are some facts about retroactively implementing the "final race is worth double the points" as they relate to Dale in yet another "DSFF 'Earnhardt Is Better Than Your Favorite Driver' Post" that I know you guys have been missing so much from me :) 1980: I really thought this would be a year that would be taken from Dale under this system. Bit he still would have won it. He led Cale by 29 points going into the finale in Ontario, and won by 19 in the end. He lost 10 points, meaning he would have lost 20, still enough to become the first, and to this day only, sriver to win the championship in his 2nd year of racing against the very best. Kinda fun reviewing this title battle. Gotta love the days when finishing your final 5 races of the year with finishes of 1st (most laps led), 1st (most laps led), 18th (3 laps led), 3rd (1 lap led), and 5th (3 laps led) is only enough to see your 90 point lead fall to 19 points. Even on his last legs as a full time driver gunning for the Winston Cup, Cale was a tough SOB. 1989: After being besieged by bad luck leading to the finale in Atlanta, Dale saw his 102 point mid September points lead fall to a 79 point deficit. But he led 249 of the 328 laps to win going away while Rusty struggled, needing the typical 500 mile attrition of the day to save him, winning by just 12 points. So Dale gained 67 points in the last race. That would have been a 134 point gain under this system, enough for Dale to not only win, but win by almost 60 points. 1990: Now this one is interesting. In reality, Dale entered the finale up by 6 points, and won by 26 in the end, gaining 20 points. But had the points been doubled, he would have gained 40 points to win by 46 points. This is significant because Mark had the famous carb penalty in the second race of the season, getting penalized, wait for it...... 46 points! This has cast a bit of a cloud over this title for Dale over the years. But had this system been in place, Dale would have won by the exact point total Mark was penalized, meaning had the disputed penalty never been assessed, they would have tied in points, with Dale winning the tiebreaker by having more wins, 9 to 3. And what if this system had been in place and that penalty never been assessed and they wound up tying with Dale winning by tiebreaker? Would we remember the '92 Hooter's 500 as fondly? Amd what about the 2011 Ford 400? Would Jack Roush need all sharp objects hid from him after losing like that TWICE? 1995: Entering the finale at Atlanta this year, the track Jeff won at in March of this year in dominating fashion, Wonderboy led The Intimidator by 147 points (a point lead that was 302 just four races earlier). Layup, right? Dale won by leading 268 of 328 laps while Jeff finished 32nd, 17 laps down (with Dale giving him the finger while lapping him many times in the end after Jeff had clinched). This meant Dale gained 113 points. Under this system, he would have gained 226, winning by a whopping 79 points. I know after they clinched, they had a little fun with a pit stop with Evernham changing tires and Hendrick himself cleaning the windshield in a stop that lasted 40 seconds. This may have cost them an additional lap, and maybe even a few positions, but he was way off the pace in the end, later saying he felt like something was broken. With the points doubled, therefore being worth 6 per position in the back of the pack, Jeff would still have needed to finished 13 spots better. Unlikely. Now, how would that have changed things historically? That means Jeff would have choked away a 302 point lead with 4 races left in '95, a 101 point lead with 4 races left in '96 (the points doubling in the finale wouldn't have saved him that year), and he definitely would have been sunk in '97, choking away a 220+ point lead with 4 races left that year (I don't have the exact numbers in front of me for that season, but Jeff would have lost). With three straight epic fails, would their historic 1998 have happened? What would the team tensions have been like entering that year? With Chad Knaus Sr (Evernham) leading them, who always kept things tense anyways, how would Team 24 have reacted? 1214. David posted: 12.10.2013 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Applying the same scenario to NASCAR (1975-present): 1988 actual: 1. Bill Elliott - 4488 2. Rusty Wallace - 4464 1988 revised: 1. Rusty Wallace - 4639 2. Bill Elliott - 4618 1989 actual: 1. Rusty Wallace - 4176 2. Dale Earnhardt - 4164 1989 revised: 1. Dale Earnhardt - 4339 2. Rusty Wallace - 4294 1995 actual: 1. Jeff Gordon - 4614 2. Dale Earnhardt - 4580 1995 revised: 1. Dale Earnhardt - 4755 2. Jeff Gordon - 4681 (I'll bet DSFF's grinning at this one) 1997 actual: 1. Jeff Gordon - 4710 2. Dale Jarrett - 4696 3. Mark Martin - 4681 1997 revised: 1. Dale Jarrett - 4866 2. Mark Martin - 4846 3. Jeff Gordon - 4822 2002 actual: 1. Tony Stewart - 4800 2. Mark Martin - 4762 2002 revised: 1. Mark Martin - 4922 2. Tony Stewart - 4909 2003 actual: 1. Matt Kenseth - 5022 2. Jimmie Johnson - 4932 2003 revised: 1. Jimmie Johnson - 5097 2. Matt Kenseth - 5056 2004 actual: 1. Kurt Busch 2. Jimmie Johnson 2004 revised: 1. Jimmie Johnson - 6668 2. Kurt Busch - 6661 2005 actual: 1. Tony Stewart - 6533 2. Greg Biffle - 6498 3. Carl Edwards - 6498 2005 revised: 1. Greg Biffle - 6678 2. Carl Edwards - 6658 3. Tony Stewart - 6651 1215. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.10.2013 - 7:58 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ok, I checked some things out. In the '95 season finale, in order to finish 13 places better, Jeff would have needed to finish TEN laps better. And in '97, he actually would have finished 3rd in the end. But as for Dale, this only reinforces how I feel the modern rules would have lifted Dale even higher historically. The chase (which is more of a mental test, which Dale would have demolished everyone with), double file restarts (he destroyed people on restarts cause he had more balls and talent than anyone else), IROC cars (saving him from Richard Childress and his conservative cars and engines), major reliance on pit crews (The Flying Aces would kick everyone's ass), and the need to be a great blocker (see The 1987 Winston). Even with this one retroactive change of making the final race worth double the points, he would be Dale "Nine Time" Earnhardt (that sound you hear is Marty Smith crying). And he would have two seperate 3peats ('89-'91, '93-'95). 1216. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.10.2013 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1995 revised: 1. Dale Earnhardt - 4755 2. Jeff Gordon - 4681 (I'll bet DSFF's grinning at this one)" Oh yeah! 1217. David posted: 12.10.2013 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darn you!!! 1218. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.10.2013 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1212, apparently it will be a temporary apron used only for the Brickyard 400 weekend to create better passing opportunities. The Indy 500 will use the same configuration seen now. 1219. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.10.2013 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cup cars need more room and different angles into the corners at the Brickyard then Indycars do. The Brickyard would be better if it had more banking but that will never change so making the groove wider is better. Besides about the only good races at the Brickyard are 94, 2005(sue me) and 2010(sue me again). 1220. cjs3872 posted: 12.10.2013 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But @1219, putting the apron back in is not going to make the racing groove much wider at all. What it's going to do is to move the racing groove down a lane and make the speeds even faster (unless something's done to slow the cars down). Contrary to what people believe, it's not going to make the racing better, because they're still going to be running next to the grass in the turns. They'll just be running further away from the wall, but it's still going to be a one-groove track, but the one-groove is simply going to be lower than it has been because they'll be short-cutting the corners. And if they don't slow the cars down, having the apron is going to speed the cars up by about 2-3 MPH because they'll have more room to maneuver if they get in trouble, but it's not going to improve the racing at all. In fact, you might even see them running wide open in turns two and four, given the extra room. And the crashes there are going to be worse that in previous years because of the increased speed and angle. Does anyone really think that there will be another accident-free NASCAR race at Indy? Remember that every car finished the Brickyard 400 in 2013, all 43. In fact, you might see lap speeds of close to 195 in qualifying and close to 185 in the race because of the fact that drivers can hold their foot on the accelerator longer. What you're likely to see is the drivers holding the throttle wide open from the exit of turn one to the entrance to turn three, and the exit of turn three to the entrance to turn one. They're already close to being able to do that as it is. It's not going to make the racing any better, just make it much faster and possibly more dangerous. 1221. An Aussie Commentor posted: 12.10.2013 - 9:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) Lost in all of this, is the fact JOHANNA LONG IS NO LONGER AT ML MOTORSPORTS 1222. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.10.2013 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I heard about Johanna. I really hope she can get a good full time NWide or Truck ride. With what she has done these last two years at such a young age with underfunded equipment, she can drive, no doubt. Unfortunately in today's racing, being able to drive is only about 2% of the equation. 1223. Scott. B posted: 12.11.2013 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1209: If a big money sponsor was out there, there are teams that could put together a far better proposal than Finch. I think he sees an opportunity to do a one race deal and come out in the black financially. The Daytona 500 just pays exceptionally well, and with the smaller entry lists in recent seasons there is less risk of a DNQ. 1224. 18fan posted: 12.11.2013 - 4:51 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The revision with double points that is the least realistic is 2003, because Kenseth wouldn't have come to Homestead with an experimental engine package and finished last. 1225. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.11.2013 - 4:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I do and don't like the apron coming back. I like it because it DOES add a groove, which gives drivers an extra lane to possibly to around the outside and makes thinks like Dario Franchitti's 2012 chop-block-that-30-years-ago-would-have-gotten-him-DQ'd inexcusable. I don't like it because many drivers have perished over the years that probably wouldn't have perished if the apron wasn't there, Jovy Marcelo, Gordon Smiley, Art Pollard, and Jim Malloy, to name a few examples. 1226. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.11.2013 - 5:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "The revision with double points that is the least realistic is 2003, because Kenseth wouldn't have come to Homestead with an experimental engine package and finished last. " As Neil Bonnett would have said, "He clutched it!" David, out of the ones on your list, you have to consider that it in 1988, 1989, 1995, 1997, 2002, 2003, and 2005, the driver who won the title dove in the season finale and just coasted to the minimum necessary finish. 1227. David posted: 12.11.2013 - 8:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I realize that. I took each one with an entire shaker of salt. 1228. cjs3872 posted: 12.11.2013 - 11:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, it seems that it may add a racing groove to IMS for the NASCAR events, but it most likely won't. As I've stated, what will happen is that the apron will actually become the preferred groove, so what will happen is that the groove will move down to the apron. It will still be a one-groove track, but that racing groove will simply move ten feet further from the wall, which in turn will make the cars faster because drivers will be able to flat-foot it, except in turns one and three. Even turns two and four will likely be able to be run wide open for the NASCAR teams, which I suspect may add as much a 2-3 MPH to the overall lap speeds over what they would be if they ran the track as originally intended. I read something yesterday that it would be used only for the NASCAR races, though how that would be done is a mystery. But I agree with your point about it being more dangerous with the apron because the cars will be going faster, since they'll be on the throttle longer, because they'll have more room to turn the cars. If they want to increase competition, dirty the cars up aerodynamically and slow them down about 15 MPH. They're just going too fast to put on good races, and they're too slick aerodynamically. 1229. cjs3872 posted: 12.11.2013 - 11:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) And also NicoRosbergFan, you brought up Dario Franchitti's block on Sato late in the 2012 Indianapolis 500. He didn't block him, but what he did was to move down before Sato tried to pass him, and when he did try to pass, he had no angle and thus, spun himself out. That said, I believe Franchitti should have let Sato pass him, since that would have put him in that much-advantageous second place position to slingshot him at the end. There are drivers that might have even lifted to force Sato to pass just so they could be in second place so they could slingshot right back by at the end. I know they don't think that way in IndyCar racing, but at Indy, if the racing's going to be like that, they're going to have to start thinking about not passing until the end, and instead, sitting in second or third place until that last lap or two, because the one place you don't want to be is leading, but the drivers don't know how to sit back and wait until the last lap, and then pass entering turn three, because I don't think there's enough distance between turn three and the S/F line to draft back and repass again. 1230. The Sound posted: 12.11.2013 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Official: Austin Dillon to drive the #3 Dow Chemical and Cheerio's Chevy. I am disappointed. But not surprised. 1231. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.11.2013 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Remember, they said winning the Nationwide championship without winning any races couldn't be done, but Cowboy Hat did it anyways. He did what they said couldn't be done! How is he not the logical person to drive the #3 in the Cup series, the one to be the first person to do so since Dale Earnhardt? >_> 1232. cjs3872 posted: 12.11.2013 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What do you mean, DSFF? Elliott Sadler almost won the Nationwide Series championship without a win in 2011, and if not for Mark Martin's gaffe at Bristol, David Green would have won the championship in 1994 without a win. Because of the heavy Cup participation, the only surprise is that it didn't happen sooner. Now if someone wins a Cup title without a win, that would be truly shocking, especially with the Chase. 1233. murb posted: 12.11.2013 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In addition to the Dillon announcement (which I honestly don't care about at all), RCR also announced that they won't run any full time Truck teams, but they will run the #3 truck part time with Jeffrey Earnhardt if they can get a sponsor. 1234. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.11.2013 - 4:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cjs, I was being facetious, mocking Austin's Homestead interview. 1235. The Sound posted: 12.11.2013 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am not Ty Dillon. But if I were, I would not be so enthused that Austin gets the #3 just because he is older and therefore arrives to Cup first. Seriously, I know in real life Ty claims to be just as happy with a number like 41, but if I were in his position, I would tell Grandpa to leave the number alone. 1236. Grand Detector of Sarcasm posted: 12.11.2013 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) cjs, you're lacking something... 1237. Sean posted: 12.11.2013 - 5:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That is without a doubt the most completely absurd rule I have ever seen. It even tops the 1973 Formula Two points system." Yeah, it's too bad. In an era when NASCAR, IndyCar, and American sports car racing (and to a much lesser degree international sports car racing) have gotten more and more spec, I really want to see innovation in racing SOMEWHERE. (I'll admit F1 and the top classes of European sports car racing aren't spec, but besides that, there isn't enough innovation anywhere.) Formula E truly excites me because electric cars are something wildly different from most of the race cars we've seen and the announced teams are an interesting mix (Alain Prost is involved with eDAMS, Leonardo DiCaprio is involved with Venturi, likable Japanese F1 journeyman Aguri Suzuki, who also owned the F1 team Takuma Sato once drove for, has entered a team, as well as IndyCar teams Andretti Autosport and Dragon Racing, but I can't root for Michael Andretti or Jay Penske, so I'll actually probably be rooting for the American teams to lose.) Basically it seems like a much more fun version of F1 but definitely more gimmicky with drivers switching cars mid-race (reminiscent of half-time breaks in the early Truck Series!) but I can't take it seriously with fans voting for push-to-passes. But I'll still watch since I think it'll be a hell of a lot of fun like IndyCar (sadly much better marketed though, which means it WILL succeed). It's weird all 10 teams/20 cars have been announced and no drivers have been though. I hope there'll be a lot of interesting F1/IndyCar crossovers, especially in the off-season months. But Michael Andretti, please don't put Marco in one of your Formula E cars. PLEASE... More likely it's going to end up like A1GP, a showcase for young open wheel talent working up to the top, and that series didn't last long, but I still think it'll be a hell of a lot of fun, albeit cartoonish in certain ways. I am disappointed they're only running on street courses and I hope they won't be single-file affairs and/or crashfests like too many of the 1990s/2000s CART/Champ Car street races were. But I haven't been this excited about a new series in quite some time. "It can be done perfectly though Sean. The season finale will always get double points, but the season finale will be a different track every single year. So each track eventually would get the season finale once and then repeat. Then it still adds tons of excitement for the finale and makes it feel even more special than what it does now, and they make it fair." No. It is not and cannot be fair. The championship will always be biased in favor of performance on a specific track even if the season finale rotates. It's just that the specific track happens to change every year. IndyCar's doubleheaders on street courses are REALLY biased because even though they have separate qualifying sessions, if you have a good/bad car on one you are like 80% likely to have the same for the following race the next day. Mike Conway dominated the first Detroit race this year out of nowhere and still seemed to have the dominant car the following day. Scott Dixon dominated both Toronto races. Helio Castroneves had a rare mechanical problem in the first Houston race and (amazingly) had another mechanical problem the next day to lose the championship (not that he deserved it anyway, but...). A.J. Allmendinger managed to crash on lap 1 of both Detroit races. I actually find the double-headers a bit fairer than double points for a single race because at least it is two separate races, but in both cases it gives too much weight to somebody who just nails the setup and/or has good luck on a particular weekend. Honestly, I don't like tracks in NASCAR having two dates much either for similar reasons, but at least there are several-month gaps between races for all tracks that have two races except Pocono, so many people will bring different cars, etc..., and it really will be an entirely different race. Once again, I can understand this a bit if there is an OBVIOUS marquee race that is much harder to win, much longer, more prestigious than the overall championship, etc... While Monaco is the most prestigious F1 race, it is not THAT much more prestigious than the British or Italian GPs, nor are ANY of them considered as significant as the championship. As I said before, in sports car racing, where the 24 Hours of Le Mans is much more significant than the World Endurance Championship, and the 24 Hours of Daytona is much more significant than the United SportsCar Championship, I could understand those races receiving much higher weight (especially since they are much longer and tend to have much deeper fields). But for a race that doesn't differ significantly from the other races in field quality, length, etc...? NO. And honestly I don't really like any of the NASCAR points systems from the '50s-early '70s which gave longer/richer races significantly more points (while I didn't like the "classic" 1975 Latford points system at all, I certainly like it much more than anything that preceded or replaced it), but I can understand that somewhat since those races did attract significantly larger and deeper fields and there was a massive difference in prestige between the major races (any superspeedway race basically) and the minor ones (all the dirt track races). F1, IndyCar, and NASCAR should never have double points anywhere since the fields are not significantly different between the marquee races and the others, if they even are at all. Period. "You forgot that NASCAR has a fan council Sean." Given NASCAR's decisions in the last decade, I'm not sure how much they listen to their fan council. I'll admit that green-white-checkered and shootout-style restarts, neither of which I like, came from massive fan support, but besides those I'm not sure what the fans actually influenced. "Autosport did an article that went back and calculated the points for close F1 battles in history with the double-points finale rule. The title would have changed hands ten times, assuming that things had stayed the same (which is by no means a safe assumption)." Did that article account for the fact that the '50s-'80s Formula One championship was decided based on a driver's best X races? I know Alain Prost scored more points than Ayrton Senna in 1988, but Senna won the championship because the championship was determined by best 8 finishes and Senna had 8 wins to Prost's 7... That would make calculating this somewhat more confusing. "Actually, here are some facts about retroactively implementing the "final race is worth double the points" as they relate to Dale in yet another "DSFF 'Earnhardt Is Better Than Your Favorite Driver' Post" that I know you guys have been missing so much from me :)" Yeah, that would be fun to look at for an Earnhardt fan, but that idea sucks just as much as the chase. It is enjoyable in one sense since it should help deflate some of Formula One's snob appeal though and their fans will have a much harder argument to argue for the integrity of their racing. Having said that, Bernie Ecclestone also floated the idea of artificial rain to create more exciting races and changing the points system to a point for each win and nothing else and neither of those ended up happening, so there's a chance this won't either. 1238. Sean posted: 12.11.2013 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I hope not SpeedWorld97, because they're just asking for trouble if they do that. Remember that the apron was taken out because it had become a safety hazard, in more ways than one. Not to mention that driers were actually being penalized for using it so they wouldn't short-cut the corners, like Mario Andretti was in 1991, and like NASCAR was threatening to do in 1996. All bringing it back will do is to move the groove lower, because it won't widen it at all." I know we don't agree often, but I'm right with you on this. The apron was removed because Jovy Marcelo died in 1992 under that configuration. I know the modern cars are safer, drivers wear head-and-neck restraints now and didn't then, and there was no SAFER barrier then, but I still don't like it. Indy is still clearly dangerous. Bruno Junqueira, Vitor Meira, and Mike Conway have all had season-ending wrecks in the Indy 500 in the last decade, SINCE the SAFER barrier was installed, but admittedly with the previous chassis. There has apparently been fan outcry for the return of the apron (largely influenced by Robin Miller, whom I believe is wrong about this). Sure, everybody likes watching Michael Andretti and Rick Mears passing each other on the outside on back-to-back laps in the 1991 Indy 500, but Kenny Brack and Gil de Ferran in 2001 proved that you could do that on a much narrower track (Rockingham, England) without using the apron at all. Not to mention the Indy 500 doesn't NEED to be more exciting at this point. The series needs to be marketed better. I do suspect the main reason for this is to make the NASCAR race more exciting, but I also agree with you that it wouldn't. After Phoenix was reconfigured, people started diving on the apron there repeatedly and did it improve the racing? Nah, not really. (Though I've always found PIR to be a very underrated track, for both Cup and IndyCar.) The market for the Brickyard 400 (or whatever it's called now) has crashed and I don't know if it can be revived. Indy has definitely been getting bigger crowds for the 500 again lately, and I just hope that more people go to the other IndyCar oval races. "I like it because it DOES add a groove, which gives drivers an extra lane to possibly to around the outside and makes thinks like Dario Franchitti's 2012 chop-block-that-30-years-ago-would-have-gotten-him-DQ'd inexcusable." You know as well as I do that IndyCar has a history of not being consistent enough with its blocking penalties. I don't agree at all that he would have been ULTIMATELY disqualified for that in an earlier era. Look at the outrage that resulted from Bobby Unser being stripped of the 1981 Indy 500 and how it was eventually reinstated (IMS, like NASCAR, seemed to never want to change the listed winner under any circumstance). I do recall some drivers being penalized for blocking, but I don't remember any disqualifications for it - especially winners being disqualified for it. Would you also penalize Emerson Fittipaldi for his low-probability move in 1989 to pass Al Unser, Jr. which resulted in a crash, instead giving the win to career-winless Raul Boesel who finished 6 laps behind because he was the next car running, or instead give Little Al the win despite only completing 198 laps? Fittipaldi wasn't penalized then, so why do you think a Dario-esque move would have been then? Even though I like Fittipaldi and by then didn't like Franchitti, I think Fittipaldi's move was even more ridiculous. And I say this as somebody who couldn't STAND Dario in his later years and thought he got away with way too much garbage from the officials after his return from NASCAR. Besides, what do you do since Sato didn't finish second? Just give Dixon the win? Probably part of the reason Earnhardt kept his win at Bristol in 1999 is because Terry Labonte didn't finish 2nd (think how much longer Jimmy Spencer would have been polluting Winston Cup grids in subsequent years if Earnhardt had been stripped of the win). I don't really like the precedent that sort of thing sets, since avoidable contact penalties have rarely been officiated consistently by anyone. Although I rate Dixon higher as an overall driver than Franchitti (even to date - Franchitti has just been luckier in title chases and Indy 500s) I wouldn't want to see Dixon back into a win that way, especially when to me, I think the Franchitti/Sato thing CAN be seen as a racing incident. "Remember, they said winning the Nationwide championship without winning any races couldn't be done, but Cowboy Hat did it anyways. He did what they said couldn't be done! How is he not the logical person to drive the #3 in the Cup series, the one to be the first person to do so since Dale Earnhardt?" Oriol Servia managed to win the 1999 Indy Lights title without winning a race, and his winless teammate Casey Mears finished 2nd. And that was without active CART or IRL drivers competing... 1239. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.11.2013 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lol @1236. Cjs, I love ya dude, but you are on par with Dr Sheldon Cooper in picking up on sarcasm. "Bernie Ecclestone also floated the idea of artificial rain" Hell, NASCAR racing has become so freaking bad, after Watkins Glen 2012, I would not be opposed to NASCAR implementing artificial track wide oil spills. 1240. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.11.2013 - 5:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The only good thing that i have every heard come Bernie Ecclestone piehole was he was floating around the idea of a "just win baby" championship system where most wins wins you the championship. Which i think isn't a bad thing and it can be done with or without a Chase system. Hell i think wins mean more then points. All i care about is who wins the race, screw who finished 2nd. "Given NASCAR's decisions in the last decade, I'm not sure how much they listen to their fan council. I'll admit that green-white-checkered and shootout-style restarts, neither of which I like, came from massive fan support, but besides those I'm not sure what the fans actually influenced." The council is important enough NASCAR sends out surveys too fans who are part of it every month or every other month. And this needs repeating "10,000 were polled by NASCAR, out of that 73% want cautions too bunch up the field, real or not." Only way you can find what is on the surveys is too be a part of the council. 1241. David posted: 12.11.2013 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Did that article account for the fact that the '50s-'80s Formula One championship was decided based on a driver's best X races? I know Alain Prost scored more points than Ayrton Senna in 1988, but Senna won the championship because the championship was determined by best 8 finishes and Senna had 8 wins to Prost's 7... That would make calculating this somewhat more confusing." It certainly did. Note 1956, for which Autosport said: "Fangio would gain an extra two points because his haul of three points for fourth doubles to six. He would then count that score and drop an earlier third place. Even so, Moss's 19 points gives him his first title." 1242. cjs3872 posted: 12.11.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Sean, the crowds for the Indianapolis 500 have also been falling, though not at the pace that it's been for the Brickyard 400. It's gotten to where attendance for the Indianapolis 500 have gotten to their lowest level since the introduced the double-decker grandstands around 1950, as attendance for the Indianapolis 500 is now down to 200,000 and they're taking the grandstand in the north short chute (between turns 3 and 4) out. IMS has never been a very good place to watch a race. In fact, it might be the worst place to watch a race because you can't see very much from any one seat there. The best place might be turn one, but even there, the exit of turn four is almost three quarters of a mile away, but at least, you can see the head of the backstretch from there. And as for drivers using the apron, they not only use it at Phoenix, but they also use it at Auto Club Speedway and at Loudon. And I mean they put their entire car on it, not just dip the left side wheels onto it. So what makes anyone really think it's going to be different at Indy when they install the apron for NASCAR? That's why I think that, despite their trying to use it to create a wider racing groove, all they'll end up doing is to move the racing groove down to the apron, especially if it's needed for the higher speeds (which I think it will), and the extra space is going to allow the drivers to use more throttle, which will make the speeds only go up even more because they'll be wide open everywhere, except for when they have to brake for turns one and three, which may result in speeds up to 3-5 MPH faster unless the cars are slowed down. A qualifying lap of around 195 MPH would not be out of the question for future Brickyard 400s unless something's done to slow the cars down. 1243. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.11.2013 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "Actually Sean, the crowds for the Indianapolis 500 have also been falling, though not at the pace that it's been for the Brickyard 400. It's gotten to where attendance for the Indianapolis 500 have gotten to their lowest level since the introduced the double-decker grandstands around 1950, as attendance for the Indianapolis 500 is now down to 200,000 and they're taking the grandstand in the north short chute (between turns 3 and 4) out. IMS has never been a very good place to watch a race. In fact, it might be the worst place to watch a race because you can't see very much from any one seat there. The best place might be turn one, but even there, the exit of turn four is almost three quarters of a mile away, but at least, you can see the head of the backstretch from there. And as for drivers using the apron, they not only use it at Phoenix, but they also use it at Auto Club Speedway and at Loudon. And I mean they put their entire car on it, not just dip the left side wheels onto it. So what makes anyone really think it's going to be different at Indy when they install the apron for NASCAR? That's why I think that, despite their trying to use it to create a wider racing groove, all they'll end up doing is to move the racing groove down to the apron, especially if it's needed for the higher speeds (which I think it will), and the extra space is going to allow the drivers to use more throttle, which will make the speeds only go up even more because they'll be wide open everywhere, except for when they have to brake for turns one and three, which may result in speeds up to 3-5 MPH faster unless the cars are slowed down. A qualifying lap of around 195 MPH would not be out of the question for future Brickyard 400s unless something's done to slow the cars down. " Would you care to type that spiel a FOURTH time? 1244. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.11.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Actually Sean, the crowds for the Indianapolis 500 have also been falling, though not at the pace that it's been for the Brickyard 400. It's gotten to where attendance for the Indianapolis 500 have gotten to their lowest level since the introduced the double-decker grandstands around 1950, as attendance for the Indianapolis 500 is now down to 200,000 and they're taking the grandstand in the north short chute (between turns 3 and 4) out. IMS has never been a very good place to watch a race. In fact, it might be the worst place to watch a race because you can't see very much from any one seat there. The best place might be turn one, but even there, the exit of turn four is almost three quarters of a mile away, but at least, you can see the head of the backstretch from there. And as for drivers using the apron, they not only use it at Phoenix, but they also use it at Auto Club Speedway and at Loudon. And I mean they put their entire car on it, not just dip the left side wheels onto it. So what makes anyone really think it's going to be different at Indy when they install the apron for NASCAR? That's why I think that, despite their trying to use it to create a wider racing groove, all they'll end up doing is to move the racing groove down to the apron, especially if it's needed for the higher speeds (which I think it will), and the extra space is going to allow the drivers to use more throttle, which will make the speeds only go up even more because they'll be wide open everywhere, except for when they have to brake for turns one and three, which may result in speeds up to 3-5 MPH faster unless the cars are slowed down. A qualifying lap of around 195 MPH would not be out of the question for future Brickyard 400s unless something's done to slow the cars down. " Would you care to type that spiel a FOURTH time? Remember, the only reason Bobby Unser had the 1981 win restored was because of threats and briberies from Roger Penske, who (believe it or not) was once upon a time just as underhanded if not more underhanded than Rick Hendrick is today (is that even possible). In my mind Mario on 1981, and Scott won 2012. If you want to say Emmo was worse, than yes Raul Boesel won the 1989 Indy 500. Race officials need nuts, big, BIG NUTS OF STEEL to be able to do their job. They need to look at the rulebook as black and white, see a violation, and punish it appropriately. Wins need to be taken away under any circumstance where it could be said the violation made a difference (if a driver is leading by 40 seconds and speeds on pit road, it didn't make a difference, but passing a car under yellow like Robby Gordon at Sonoma in 2003 DOES make a difference). I don't believe in "fans entitlement." I don't believe fans are entitled to see a race end under green because your title says "Yahoo 500," which means the race or combo of races (like short track racing) adds up to a certain number or laps/miles. Likewise, you aren't entitled to go home having seen the car that won. You're entitled to a race. I don't like to make negative predictions, but back when the apron was around, hardly a year went by without either a career-ending injury or a fatality at Indy. 1245. cjs3872 posted: 12.11.2013 - 9:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, how can you say that Mario should have been awarded the 1981 Indy race over Bobby Unser when he committed the exact same apparent rules infraction at the same instant at about the three-quarter mark, though not quite to the degree that Bobby's apparent infraction. Sure, Bobby passed eight cars after his pit stop, but Mario passed three himself. But Mario's infraction was not caught by the ABC cameras, but when the official film was put out later that year, Mario was clearly shown passing three cars. To this day, Mario denies having passed those cars, but the '81 Indianapolis 500 film catches him red-handed. Also, the rules at the time did not permit the officials to penalize drivers for that particular infraction until after the race had ended. That's one thing that would change for the 1982 race, because the penalty for that would be assessed during the race, though that wasn't the case in 1983 with Al Unser, Jr., or in 1985 with Johnny Rutherford. It was interesting, however, that when ESPN Classic did the "Big Ticket" program dealing with the 1981 race about a decade ago, Jack Arute had interviewed a number of drivers about the blend-line rule in 1981, including A,J, Foyt, Johnny Rutherford, and Al Unser, and each of the drivers he mentioned agreed with Bobby Unser's interpretation of the rule, which was that you really blended in coming off turn two and that you could pass on the apron if you wanted to, though that incident seemed to be the only time it actually happened. The only other driver I remember saying the rule was the way Mario said it was happened to be Gordon Johncock, one of Mario's teammates in 1981, so Johncock may have had an axe to grind in favor of his team. It's also interesting to note that near the end of the 1975 race, when Bobby Unser made an extra pit stop during the race-ending caution that originally came out for the rear axle of Gary Bettenhausen's car coming off and winding up on the track, that Unser came out of his pits and passed A.J. Foyt, putting a lap on him, something that Keith Jackson immediately picked up on. Unser later allowed Foyt to repass him just before the rains came, but Unser had been involved in something like that before. Going back to he controversy in 1981, remember that having the pace car come out on cautions was relatively new at the time, since that procedure was used at Indy for the first time in 1979, so a number of the drivers were not completely sure what all the rules were. 1246. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.12.2013 - 5:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The caution thing has always been weird to me, but then again back then drivers were mature enough to police themselves. 1247. David posted: 12.12.2013 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bobby Labonte has been asked to run James Finch's Chevy in the Daytona 500. murb was right. 1248. David posted: 12.12.2013 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also in the correct predictions department: Sergio Perez will join Nico Hulkenberg in driving the Force India cars in 2014. I believe SpeedWorld97 nailed that one (possibly among others). 1249. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.12.2013 - 12:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1981 Indy 500, 3rd place guy wins (whoever that was). Going by USAC rules (USAC had no rule book, it was a white board) Unser and Mario are penalized and the 3rd place guy wins. 3rd place should have his name on the Borg-Warner trophy. 1250. Schroeder51 posted: 12.12.2013 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1249 Vern Schuppan was the 3rd place finisher in the '81 Indy 500. 1251. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.12.2013 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, Cutler will be starting for the Bears again, so scratch them from my NFC sleepers list unless he gets reinjured. 1252. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.12.2013 - 3:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also in the correct predictions department: Sergio Perez will join Nico Hulkenberg in driving the Force India cars in 2014. I believe SpeedWorld97 nailed that one (possibly among others)." Ha! I did a few weeks ago! Glad to see Sergio got a decent ride that's capable of scoring points after getting dumped by McLaren. I still think they waited too early to release him this year. Even Jenson Button couldn't do anything in that car. 1253. cjs3872 posted: 12.12.2013 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Depending on what the penalty would be, @1249. If the penalty was one lap, then the results would have had to stay the same as the original, since Bobby and Mario were the only two cars on the lead lap at the end. The question then would have been, would the top cars only have gotten credit for completing 199 laps, thus technically making it an incomplete race? The one thing that really gummed up the works as it pertained to the controversy surrounding the 1981 race was that Gordon Johncock, who seemed like a lock to finish second, had a problem with seven laps left, and failed to finish. Johncock was never a part of that controversy at any time, though Mario tried to place him in it by accusing him of passing cars under caution during his live interview on ABC at the end of the broadcast. But Johncock never passed anyone under caution, and may have been one of those passed by Mario, though that's inconclusive. The real problem there was the fact that the penalties, if penalties were called for, were not given at the time of the incident. Had they been, both Bobby and Mario could have made up the ground lost on the penalties, but Bobby would still have won, with Mario finishing second since each were a lap up on third place. Had they been penalized, that would only have put Vern Schuppan back on the same lap with them (where he would have been on the restart had Bobby not passed him under that caution), but since both were much faster than Vern was, it wouldn't have made a difference in the end. 1254. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.12.2013 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks Schroeder51. Vern still would have had a shot IF USAC penalized Unser and Mario 1 lap. But like i said before USAC didn't have a rule book, it was a white board with magic marker on it. BTW Mario and Unser both passed more than one car under caution. If USAC had guts, they'd penalize both of them. A rule is a rule. Unser and Mario are still bitter about it after 32 years, they had better make peace with that sooner rather then later because that is alot of stuff too carry around. "I don't believe in "fans entitlement." I don't believe fans are entitled to see a race end under green because your title says "Yahoo 500," which means the race or combo of races (like short track racing) adds up to a certain number or laps/miles. Likewise, you aren't entitled to go home having seen the car that won. You're entitled to a race." I'm saving this. 1255. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.12.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) ^ Why are you "saving it"? If I may ask. 1256. joey2448 posted: 12.12.2013 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF #1251, unfortunately you're right. I wish the Bears would keep Josh McCown in at quarterback. That guy has been playing at a Nick Foles level in recent games. Even the games the Bears have lost have only been because of poor play-calling, such as when Trestman called the field goal unit out on SECOND DOWN with 4 min to go in OT against Minnesota! If you would've asked me about McCown at the beginning of the season, I would've never have thought he should be at QB. But man, he has impressed me this year. I mean, his 7-yd TD run against Dallas on Monday night was fantastic! Very John Elway-ish. And McCown has been very in-tune with his receivers (of course, Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffery are, as Michael Irvin would say, BEASTS!!!) McCown was constantly hitting his receivers spot on, even though Dallas' defense has been poor this year. I say, go with the hot hand, don't put Cutler back out. 1257. Ched Little posted: 12.12.2013 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Too bad for Josh McCown, he's 34. 1258. cjs3872 posted: 12.12.2013 - 8:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But @1254, a one lap penalty would still have put Bobby and Mario ahead of Vern, nothing would have changed except possibly the lap count (unless Vern was physically ahead of Mario on the track). Bobby would still have won the race because he was more than a full lap ahead of Vern Schuppan. The penalty would just have put Schuppan back on the same lap with Bobby, but it would not have put him ahead of Bobby. Now if Schuppan was ahead of Mario on the track at he end, a one lap penalty to Mario would have cost him second place, but it would not have changed the winner. Now, if Bobby had not passed Schuppan (his was one of the eight cars Bobby passed during that caution period), he might have been able to get back on the same lap if the period of racing was very brief, but he wouldn't have been able to stay in front of Bobby for very long. But a 1-lap penalty can not put you behind a driver you're more than a lap ahead of. And since Bobby and Mario both committed the same infraction and should have each been penalized if one was, a penalty to both can not take the win away from Bobby, since third place was more than one lap behind. It would just reduce his laps completed count to 199, which in turn would officially make the 1981 Indianapolis 500 an incomplete race. 1259. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.12.2013 - 8:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^ Why are you "saving it"? If I may ask." So i can use when someone complains when a race ended under caution after 3 GWCs or when past races end under caution before the GWC rule. Races ending under yellow suck but people can deal with it. Only reason why NASCAR has the GWC rule in the Cup series is because of the beer can littered track at Talladega in 2004 (which made NASCAR look real good). CJS i'm not saying strip Bobby of the win or put Vern ahead of Mario or Bobby on the restart, i'm saying penalize Mario and Bobby like the rulebook says, run the restart and let the chips fall where they may. Based on circumstances, Vern would still finish 3rd but if Vern is on the same lap, atleast he'd have a legit shot at winning the race by being on the same lap as Mario and Bobby. 1260. cjs3872 posted: 12.12.2013 - 9:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penalizing them at the instant the infractions occurred is exactly what should have been done, @1259, but as Mario said on the "Big Ticket" program that profiled that race, that wasn't the way it was done at that particular time, so if USAC had done that, as it should have, they would have been going against their own protocol. The only penalties they actually enforced at the time they occurred were for running over an air hose and passing the pace car. They also assessed a 1-lap penalty against Steve Krsiloff in the 1978 race for violating the P.A.C.E.R. light rules. But they never assessed any penalties for passing other cars, basically because the procedure of using the pace car during caution periods was still new in 1981, as they had only begun to do that in 1979, so they may not have even been sure about all the rules and regulations, so the competitors could take advantage of that at will until USAC could thicken that part of the rulebook, which began to take place in 1982. 1261. The Long Shot posted: 12.12.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't believe in "fans entitlement." I don't believe fans are entitled to see a race end under green because your title says "Yahoo 500," which means the race or combo of races (like short track racing) adds up to a certain number or laps/miles. Likewise, you aren't entitled to go home having seen the car that won. You're entitled to a race." Very true. However, I don't think that this should imply that fans can't be disappointed about the finish of a race. For example, I understand that I'm not entitled to see a great finish at Talladega, but that doesn't mean that I won't feel a bit let down. As Zackary Shawn has said many a time, we can't be objective about every little thing. There has to be a time where your emotions get the better of you (at least a little) because your favorite driver lost, or, in this case, because there was a disappointing finish. Just because we're unhappy about something doesn't mean that we are completely unreasonable. All we need is a little time to cool off, drink a couple of Miller Lites (or, for me, a couple of Juicy Juices), and get our heads on straight again. 1262. cjs3872 posted: 12.12.2013 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I hope DSFF's not watching the Charger/Bronco game, because if he is, then he'll probably be starting to come up with rants about how John Fox might be costing his team home field advantage throughout the playoffs if they happen to lose this game (they're trailing SD 17-10 as of this writing), which I don't think they will. But in other news, the Redskins are starting Kirk Cousins and "benching" RG III for the rest of the season, and apparently, RG Me is not happy about it at all. What's he afraid of? That Cousins might be a better QB than RG Me is? If that's the case, then they've been starting the wrong guy all along. And by the way, when Mike Shanahan was effectively forced into trading up for Robert Griffin, it appears that the guy he actually wanted was Ryan Tannehill, and all Tannehill seems to be doing is to possibly lead the Dolphins toward the playoffs this year, and to a possible run toward the top of the AFC in future years, as I think they may be a team to watch in the future. If Shanahan had followed his gut and not traded up, and took Tannehill, his offense might be more potent, because I don't think RG III is that good a passer, and Tannehill is probably a better passer than Griffin, and Cousins might be, as well. But the last thing a team needs is a QB that cares more about himself than the team, and that appears to be what RG III is, because a QB is supposed to be a leader, and Griffin appears to be anything but at this time. 1263. David posted: 12.12.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "drink a couple of Miller Lites (or, for me, a couple of Juicy Juices)" Chocolate milk for me! Or Sunny D. "I hope DSFF's not watching the Charger/Bronco game, because if he is, then he'll probably be starting to come up with rants about how John Fox might be costing his team home field advantage throughout the playoffs if they happen to lose this game (they're trailing SD 17-10 as of this writing), which I don't think they will." You know that since you brought the subject up, he's going to say just that, don't you? 1264. cjs3872 posted: 12.12.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well David, it's now 24-10 (as of this writing) and the Broncos are playing their worst game of the year, and giving other teams a blueprint on how to beat them in Denver, whether they pull of the upset or not. Although Denver's not doing a bad job of beating themselves, either. Committing an offside penalty on fourth down to give them a fresh set of downs when they had to kick from their own end zone? That's not the actions of an 11-2 team. 1265. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.13.2013 - 4:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't get to see the game, but I just saw Denver lost to San Diego at Mile High. My understanding is that, while it was cold, it wasn't freezing there (at least that is what the forecast was for). So I don't know what John Fox may have done, but I saw him blow plenty of seasons while he was in Carolina. Also, can't believe Denver only scored 20 points at home. Their high flying, record breaking offense is faltering. Maybe this will be Peyton One And Done #9. 1266. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.13.2013 - 5:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something is up, because KC in the 2nd one and Tennessee both lost because of chokes when they should have won in a rout. 1267. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.13.2013 - 6:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of RGIII, that whole deal with the Redskins is a mess. Of course when you have an owner likeDan Snyder you will get many situations like that. He is even worse than Jerry Jones. Shanahan is doing his best to get fired and get the money, and I think he's been doing that all season. I see you called him "RG Me" and he definitely deserves blame in this. He is a me first guy, and something that was pointed out, if you'll notice, whenever he gets knocked down (which is quite often) none of his teammates ever go to help him up. That shows a huge disconnect. But we can't lay all the blame at his feet. I think it is a war between Snyder and Shanahan, two guys with egos bigger than the entire Beltway, two guys who would rather shoot themselves than surrender. I think Shanahan knew RGIII wasn't close to healthy and wanted to play Cousins until Griffin was a whole lot closer to 100%, but Snyder did what Dan Snyder does and made the decisions himself even though he is incompetent. Since he has mortgages the Redskins future on Griffin, he wanted him out there. Meanwhile RGIII made his ridiculous self hype of his recovery further muddying up the waters. Basically 3 gigantic egos collided, each of which having leverage (Snyder has more money than any other owner, Shanahan has those two rings and will forever be the coach that guided the team that allowed John Elway to get his deserved championships, and RGIII was perhaps the hottest young marketable star out there as of the beginning of this season) and the result is a 3-10 record in one of the most competitive NFL seasons ever. All 3 have just waited for the other one to blink, and ruined a season because of non football stuff. At least that is my theory. 1268. We need more Onion posted: 12.13.2013 - 9:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Found a great conversation between McDowell and his spotter from 2011 Richmond. *After avoiding a big wreck* Spotter: "Did you hit anything?" McDowell: "Just my talent button." Then he proceeds to sing a theme from Winnie the Pooh. If you want to hear it with your own ears, youtube search the following: Scanner Audio - #66-Michael McDowell Avoids Early Wrecks at Richmond It is hilarious. 1269. cjs3872 posted: 12.13.2013 - 11:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well DSFF, for starters, the Broncos seemed unprepared, especially on defense and special teams. The most glaring example being when they jumped offsides when the Chargers had to punt from near their end zone. Also, Peyton Manning didn't appear happy that they had to play on a Thursday night so late in the season. Funny that it didn't seem to bother the Chargers any. And the weather should have bothered San Diego more than Denver, considering the temperatures were close to freezing, but the exact opposite was true. The Broncos seemed like they were unprepared and lackadaisical for such an important game, and that's on the coaching staff. And the offense, which is the Broncos' strength, made the Chargers look like the old Steel Curtain. 18 yards rushing for the entire game for an offense of that caliber? Ryan Matthews got more than that on his 2nd quarter TD run. The Broncos were outclassed in virtually every way, and the only good thing about this loss for them was that it didn't occur a month later because at least they're still playing. And while a lot of attention is being focused on the Broncos and Patriots, I'm still looking at the Cincinnati Bengals as a real threat in the AFC. 1270. Sean posted: 12.13.2013 - 12:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tony Kanaan, who was already signed to the Ganassi #8 NTT Data car, got switched to the #10 Target car replacing Dario Franchitti. Ryan Briscoe was announced as the replacement for Kanaan in the #8 car today. For Kanaan I'm happy. He was offered the #10 for the 2009 season after Dan Wheldon left the team and turned it down to stay with Andretti, only to lose his 7-Eleven sponsorship at the end of 2010 and be forced to leave, not to mention that Andretti seemed to be favoring Marco and Danica over him and Kanaan gradually got disgusted. While I don't THINK he has the speed to be a championship contender like he used to have, and he was always better on ovals than road courses and there are many fewer ovals on the schedule, he should still finish 6th or 7th in points and win 2 oval races I think... For Briscoe I have mixed emotions. On paper, he was the most qualified candidate, but when considering the entire situation, I don't believe he was. I have long felt he is the most overrated driver in the series (sure Danica, Marco, and Graham got more hype, but they've never been considered to be major contenders for the championship or regular race wins...) and gets way too many great opportunities and does way too little with them. In 2005, despite being considered one of the hottest Formula One prospects and entering a Ganassi car, he got beaten both in the points standings and in the Indy 500 by fellow rookie Danica Patrick. To be fair to Briscoe, Ganassi had worse equipment than it had any other year in its history, with Scott Dixon leading the team with a 13th place points finish, and also finishing behind Danica in points, because Toyota was withdrawing from the IRL to focus on NASCAR and largely ignoring most of their teams. Briscoe got injured in a vicious crash at Chicagoland in 2005 and was subsequently fired by Ganassi after that. Maybe Ganassi feels bad about that and wants to make it up to him, much like Richard Childress's even more puzzling hire of Dave Blaney in 2005. Of course I'm happy Briscoe did survive the wreck and got to prove himself again in 2008 and 2009 at Penske once he had competitive equipment (which he didn't at Ganassi), but then he crashed leaving the pits on his final pit stop at Motegi, which threw away a championship that was almost certainly his. After that, Briscoe never really seemed to be the same, winning only 2 races in his last 3 years at Penske. He battled Danica Patrick in superior equipment to win at Texas in 2010 and he took the lead from Will Power during an exchange of pit stops at Sonoma in 2012 in a rather bizarre fluke. Aside from that, he was hardly in contention for any wins despite being in Penske cars in 2011 and 2012... Lots of drivers have done more with less. I'll give Briscoe credit for beating Dixon and Franchitti straight up in the Indy 500 when all the Hondas and the Ganassi cars specifically were lost, but Charlie Kimball ended up beating all of them. When Briscoe and Oriol Servia were more or less alternating in the #4 Panther car after J.R. Hildebrand was fired, Servia greatly outperformed Briscoe... Most of the drivers who have done more with less were under contract already (Sebastien Bourdais, Josef Newgarden, Simon Pagenaud, Justin Wilson). As far as veterans are concerned, I would have easily taken Servia over Briscoe. Servia beat Will Power in points when they were teammates in 2008, BLEW OUT James Hinchcliffe in 2011 when they were teammates, and outperformed J.R. Hildebrand, Ryan Briscoe, and Carlos Munoz in the #4 car. If Ganassi was looking for veteran experience, I think Servia would easily get them a better championship finish AND Indy 500 result than Briscoe, who has seemingly been riding around after choking the 2009 title. But this is Ganassi. A guy who likes to take risks. Hiring Formula One vets/hot F1 prospects with no oval experience (Eddie Cheever, Alex Zanardi, JPM, Bruno Junqueira, Nicolas Minassian, Ryan Briscoe), giving under-regarded underdogs shots (Memo Gidley, Jeff Ward, Darren Manning, Charlie Kimball, Tony Renna RIP, Jaques Lazier, and Alex Tagliani in one-offs, Jason Leffler RIP, Jamie McMurray, Casey Mears, David Stremme/Reed Sorenson, Dario Franchitti/JPM in Cup, Kyle Larson now), hiring Tony Stewart in a one-off for Indy when he was a full-time Cup driver (and had never competed against the serious CART talent in his IRL years), hiring unemployed drivers in mid-season (Scott Dixon), hiring drivers who had been the butt of jokes due to crashing too much (Tomas Scheckter)... Chip likes to take risks, so in that sense hiring safe choices like Kanaan and Briscoe actually seems like a bit of a shock considering his history. Yeah, a lot of his risks have failed (especially his Cup drivers - and I have no idea why he hired Jimmy Spencer in 2002) but he takes risks and this just seemed too automatic, too ordinary, so a lot of fans are disappointed by it. I was honestly hoping Ganassi would take a risk on somebody younger. With Briscoe, you know what you're going to get. He's not going to suck but he's not going to win a title or an Indy 500 either. 6th-10th in points every year with 0-2 wins. It effectively means Dixon will probably be Ganassi's only title contender in four cars, which is good for the other teams after Ganassi has won 10 of the last 18 championships, but still... If you're a casual racing fan, what comes to mind when you think of Ryan Briscoe? Either Danica marching up to his pit at Indy in 2008 or his wife being an ESPN reporter. His actual race wins aren't really remembered. It's a lot like Bryan Herta who did win 2 CART races and 2 IRL races over a long and slightly above average career, as well as winning an Indy 500 as a car owner for Dan Wheldon in 2011. But no matter what else Herta does, he will be unable to escape his image as "the guy Alex Zanardi passed in the grass on the last lap at Laguna Seca". 1271. Sean posted: 12.13.2013 - 12:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Having said that, it looked like Briscoe and Alex Tagliani were the only two drivers Ganassi took seriously for the #10 ride, and between those two, I'd DEFINITELY pick Briscoe, since he has just slightly underachieved while Tagliani has MASSIVELY underachieved. But Servia would have done better than either, and I think a lot of unemployed Formula One/IndyCar prospects like Sam Bird, Luca Filippi, Paul di Resta (who just lost his F1 ride, and is Dario's cousin, so a lot of people speculated that he would get it), or Sage Karam might potentially have more upside. Would they be better than Briscoe NOW? No, but they might be more likely to win titles in the future. Briscoe doesn't seem to have much future, but I hope he proves me wrong. Ganassi may also be interested in Briscoe because he's proven to be probably a better sports car driver than he is an IndyCar driver, especially now, and with JPM and Dario no longer at Ganassi, he may need a sports car vet like Briscoe to help him win some more 24 Hours of Daytonas in the future, and that may be important to him as well. Admittedly, Dario's injury was unexpected and as IndyCar teams have been getting more professional lately, most of the greater drivers have been signed, and with longer contracts, so Briscoe isn't bad. This is similar to the situation when Greg Moore and Dan Wheldon died in the 1999 and 2011 season finales. Penske, which had signed Greg Moore, replaced him with Helio Castroneves, who was unemployed and in my opinion hadn't shown a WHOLE lot, but got lucky. Andretti pretty much did the same with James Hinchcliffe, because both Castroneves and Hinchcliffe were driving for teams that went out of business. There was no situation like that this year (although it appears Panther, the team Briscoe was signed with, may be going out of business after losing their $10 million National Guard sponsorship and now employing only three team members supposedly). I do have to laugh when I see some IndyCar fans being disappointed in Briscoe (as I am) because he's not American and because he won't "move the needle". People go on and on about how Penske and Ganassi don't hire Americans for their IndyCar team and even accuse them of being xenophobes, but Penske employed A.J. Allmendinger and Sam Hornish recently and tried to hire Ryan Hunter-Reay who turned the ride down, and Ganassi recently hired Graham Rahal, Charlie Kimball, and offered the #10 seat to Sam Hornish, so clearly they do hire Americans... They don't hire many because the American drivers haven't proven to be as good (probably because most of the best American drivers are in NASCAR, and because the American drivers who end up in the series tend to be the drivers who are best able to market themselves or drivers who are related to somebody famous - Danica Patrick, Marco Andretti, Graham Rahal, Ed Carpenter - instead of the drivers who actually seem(ed) to have more potential but struggle to find rides - Buddy Rice, Jon Fogarty, Alex Gurney, Joey Hand, J.R. Hildebrand, John Edwards, Jonathan Summerton, Sage Karam - even RHR was unemployed for nearly two whole years...if all those drivers had made it to IndyCar maybe people would have a different opinion of American drivers in IndyCar...) And IndyCar has had tons of great storylines for the past three years but its issues are with marketing. Practically NO ONE except maybe Junior or Jeff Gordon (or some "Duck Dynasty" star, lol) would get American race fans to watch IndyCar's NBC Sports races en masse. While I wanted Ganassi to choose a "fresher" choice than Briscoe, hiring somebody like Paul di Resta or Sam Bird or Sage Karam might be more fun for the existing fans, but it won't get anyone new to watch. They need to know how to market themselves and then the rest should take care of itself... Perhaps NASCAR moving to NBC Sports in 2015 will raise the profile of IndyCar's races on that channel, but blaming Ganassi for choosing to hire an established veteran over someone who would "move the needle" when I don't think any driver would be capable of that except maybe about 5 Cup and 5 Formula One drivers is rather ridiculous... More excitingly, aero kits have finally been announced for IndyCar so there's a chance there may be some (slight) innovation in the cars again starting in 2015 for the first time in over a decade... 1272. Sean posted: 12.13.2013 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess I'll predict who will get the remaining IndyCar ride while I'm at it, and now that Kanaan and Briscoe have been announced, I'll probably make my top ten picks for F1, Cup, and IndyCar along with other predictions pretty soon. A.J. Foyt #14 - Takuma Sato. Horrible end to the season but I've seen nothing indicating that they're not going to retain him. Sato did give the team its first win in over a decade and its first win EVER in a united series since Foyt himself drove the car, and he does have speed on every kind of track, leading the most laps in three different races. If he ever chills out, watch out. Bryan Herta #98 - Luca Filippi. One of the hottest Formula One prospects for the past five years, and he was MASSIVELY faster on the road courses than Alex Tagliani whom he replaced. Herta's other driver J.R. Hildebrand is probably better on ovals but still has a history of DNFing whenever he fights for a win. Hildebrand is basically a 15 years younger Alex Tagliani... Filippi should get it. Dale Coyne #18 - Justin Wilson. Clearly if Ganassi didn't sign him, he's still under contract. Dale Coyne #19 - Simona de Silvestro. Because she's leaving KV Racing, this is the only team that might be better, Coyne always hires a ride-buyer for this car and she has money, and he has a history of hiring female drivers for this car in recent years as well. Dreyer & Reinbold #22 - won't be able to find sponsorship and won't compete KVSH unnumbered - Sage Karam if he finds enough sponsorship, Sam Bird if Karam doesn't Panther #4 - James Jakes. It wouldn't surprise me if they went out of business, and I wouldn't be disappointed since that's such a sleazy team. John Barnes got a $10 million sponsorship from the National Guard, which should be enough to fund TWO cars and yet Vitor Meira and Dan Wheldon both had to sue him because they weren't getting paid? And J.R. Hildebrand was supposedly fired from the team by TEXT MESSAGE? I don't blame the Guard for leaving, but it's not like Graham Rahal will REALLY do anything more than Hildebrand has... I do however predict that they will pick up a ride-buyer and Jakes would seem to be the most obvious. Rahal #16 - Oriol Servia. Since Graham is getting the National Guard sponsorship, I'm assuming the sponsors he had will stay with the team which should be enough funding to fund an established veteran driver. Servia always finds a ride at the last minute (he's the ultimate survivor) but never a good enough ride for his talents. The Rahal team has recently stunk but if they get him in addition to their great engineer Bill Pappas, they may have a resurgence and he may lift Graham Rahal up on his coattails. E.J. Viso and Alex Tagliani go to sports cars. Sebastian Saavedra goes to Formula E with Dragon Racing's team there. J.R. Hildebrand runs Indy only in a 2nd Bryan Herta car. Let's see if I'm right... 1273. Sean posted: 12.13.2013 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And J.R. Hildebrand was supposedly fired from the team by TEXT MESSAGE?" Maybe I'm wrong about this since even though I remember reading this somewhere, I can't find it now. But I'm right about the previous drivers suing him. 1274. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.13.2013 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Proof that Childress's scam the whole time has been to hold the #3 hostage claiming "Earnhardt's legacy" to give it to his grandson to generate media hype: since Austin is in the Cup molesting Earnhardt's legacy, and Ty is moving to the NNS, Childress is selling the truck team. 1275. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.13.2013 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, that is certainly far from the first time a John Fox team failed to prepare, and therefore prepared to fail (a varaiation of one of my favorite John Wooden quotes) for a very important game in the season. At Carolina, in the 2004 season finale, after being killed by injuries and starting 1-7, all they had to do was beat the pre Brees era Saints at home and get a Wild Card. They stunk it up against a bad team. In 2005, they lost a big game in Chicago (who they would beat at Soldier Field in the playoffs) that could have improved their playoff seeding, a game in which the Panthers were so unprepared the announcers couldn't stop talking about it. Then we just flat out lost the whole division later that year, which we had a stranglehold on, when Tampa beat us at home, a game we certainly could have won. This meant we had to take a Wild Card and play 3 straight playoff road games, winning in New York and Chicago, before losing at Seattle in a classic "out of gas" performance. Had we won those two games, we could have got at least one home game, and possibly a first round bye. Considering how poorly the equally road weary Steelers played in that Super Bowl, I like our chances. Also, not that it mattered, but in 2008 we had a home game late against the Giants that would basically determine the #1 seed for the NFC. We had no answer for their (at the time) vaunted running attack, getting ran on at will and losing in OT to a team we were better than. Of course we had the EPIC first round stinkbomb against the Cards that year, but still. And don't get me started on Fox's teams against Michael Vick in his prime. 1276. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.13.2013 - 3:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Well, that is certainly far from the first time a John Fox team failed to prepare, and therefore prepared to fail (a varaiation of one of my favorite John Wooden quotes) for a very important game in the season. At Carolina, in the 2004 season finale, after being killed by injuries and starting 1-7, all they had to do was beat the pre Brees era Saints at home and get a Wild Card. They stunk it up against a bad team. In 2005, they lost a big game in Chicago (who they would beat at Soldier Field in the playoffs) that could have improved their playoff seeding, a game in which the Panthers were so unprepared the announcers couldn't stop talking about it. Then we just flat out lost the whole division later that year, which we had a stranglehold on, when Tampa beat us at home, a game we certainly could have won. This meant we had to take a Wild Card and play 3 straight playoff road games, winning in New York and Chicago, before losing at Seattle in a classic "out of gas" performance. Had we won those two games, we could have got at least one home game, and possibly a first round bye. Considering how poorly the equally road weary Steelers played in that Super Bowl, I like our chances. Also, not that it mattered, but in 2008 we had a home game late against the Giants that would basically determine the #1 seed for the NFC. We had no answer for their (at the time) vaunted running attack, getting ran on at will and losing in OT to a team we were better than. Of course we had the EPIC first round stinkbomb against the Cards that year, but still. And don't get me started on Fox's teams against Michael Vick in his prime. " I have a better cause and reason for that: Jake Delhomme. 1277. Paul posted: 12.13.2013 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Landon Cassill will run a full Nationwide Series schedule for JD Motorsports in 2014, replacing Mike Wallace as the team's primary driver. Cassill will drive the #4 car, with the team announcing that they will run a second car at least on a part-time basis with multiple drivers, one of which will be Daryl Harr from the K&N Pro Series West. 1278. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.13.2013 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The problem with Jake is he had arm injuries in '06 and '07 (which were mismanaged by John Fox, they waited way too long to take him out) leading to Tommy John surgery. He came back for '08 but wasn't the same, their running attack of Williams and Stewart carried them. From '03-'05 he was a damn good QB. He was inconsistent at times, but with a better coach, certainly could have won Super Bowl 38 and possibly even Super Bowl 40. He played his best in that stretch in the playoffs. 1279. We need more Onion posted: 12.13.2013 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "One of the hottest Formula One prospects for the past five years" Talking about Luca Filippi, he was never a top prospect for an F1 ride, despite showing speed and winning a GP2 title, he wasn't even considered for any F1 race seat. The Ganassi opening being filled makes me relieved, because now I know that di Resta will not be getting a top Indycar ride solely because his family connections and F1 background. I hate that guy, you couldn't use the same elevator he does, because his ego fills the lift's max capacity. 1280. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.13.2013 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) I think it's criminal that neither Luca Filippi or Lucas di Grassi has a top-tier open-wheel ride. di Grassi nearly won the freaking GP2 title one year despite missing the first 3 weekends! 1281. cjs3872 posted: 12.13.2013 - 6:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I se that I'm not the only one that thinks that Richard Childress has been holding the #3 hostage for many years, and that's something that NASCAR should never have allowed to happen, though the outcry if another team had used the number might have been such that it might not have happened, anyway. In fact, one Truck Series team owner actually wanted to do that about a decade ago, and caught flak for even considering it. But NASCAR should never have gone against their own policy regarding numbers. Remember that after Richard Petty retired after the 1992 season, his cars carried the #44 in 1993, and NASCAR told Petty that if he didn't use the #43 in 1994, that he would lose his iconic number, so it returned in 1994 with Wally Dallenbach, Jr. and later John Andretti. NASCAR should have given Childress the same directive, use the #3 or lose it. I know the circumstances were much different, but as you and others said about that 1981 Indy fiasco, rules are rules, and NASCAR went against their own rulebook when it came to the #3 and Richard Childress. And DSFF, you're right about the Jake Delhomme situation, especially when it concerns his arm injury, which I've always believed led to the rapid decline of the Panthers, which in turn cost John Fox his job there. I also think that he could be in a similar mess in Denver if Peyton Manning decided to walk away, because the Broncos have little else to stand on. As I said, the Chargers' defense is just okay, but last night, the Broncos offense made it look like the old Steel Curtain from the 1970s, and the Broncos defense has been putrid all season long, and it finally came home to roost. And I think other teams in the AFC may be thanking their lucky stars that the Chargers are not going to be in the playoffs this year (barring collapses by Baltimore and Miami), because this is becoming a team that could be very dangerous in the playoffs if it got there, After all, they've now beaten the two best teams on their schedule (Kansas City and Denver) in their place, and might be one of the best teams in the AFC now. But these two big wins might bode well for them next year when they get in tight games, because they were losing those games earlier in the year, but now they're winning them. But they may also have a similar question regarding their QB in the near future, because Philip Rivers isn't getting any younger, but then again, no team in that division has a quality QB that can be considered young, which s why, if he plays well for the Redskins in the final three weeks, it wouldn't shock me if the Raiders made a run at Kirk Cousins to try to solidify their future at QB. 1282. DB1995 posted: 12.13.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) James Buescher to RAB racing full time, highly suspected that Kwaseneeskeeei guy will take his spot at turner 1283. TS1420 posted: 12.13.2013 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow on James Buescher leaving family in-law owned Turner-Scott Motorsports to race for.... RAB Racing.... 1284. murb posted: 12.13.2013 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm seriously shocked that Buescher would leave Turner, especially for a downgrade ride with RAB. Hey, now maybe Bowman or Johanna can get a full time ride with Turner (I can hope, right?). But yeah, seriously, it probably will be Kwasniewski, like DB said. I'm pretty sure he has full backing from Royal Purple/Rockstar. Not sure how he'll do if it is him. He hasn't even run one race in the top three series yet, so I might be a little worried about a huge jump to full time NNS like that. 1285. murb posted: 12.13.2013 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, did I really just space that Kwasniewski would be replacing Buescher in TRUCKS? My bad. 1286. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.13.2013 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dylan! I hope so. 1287. Sean posted: 12.13.2013 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Talking about Luca Filippi, he was never a top prospect for an F1 ride, despite showing speed and winning a GP2 title, he wasn't even considered for any F1 race seat." I guess it depends on what your definition of prospect is. My definition of prospect is anyone who shows the most potential in feeder series regardless of whether the major league teams are actually interested in them or not. I would have called Justin Allgaier one of the hottest Sprint Cup prospects for several years due to his Nationwide success even though until this year there has been very little interest in him from Cup teams... I would also call Filippi a hot prospect in that period based on his success alone. Allgaier was better than some drivers who made it to Cup, and Filippi was better than some drivers who made it to F1. At some point, they were considered "damaged goods" but that doesn't mean they weren't prospects. Maybe if you've been around the minor leagues as long as somebody like Jason Keller, I wouldn't use the term prospect... 1288. cjs3872 posted: 12.13.2013 - 7:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, James Buescher apparently just torpedoed his own career, because joining that team will put him on the road to nowhere. Just look at what happened to Alex Bowman the end of last season. Of course, Bowman was asked to take part in a test for BK Racing, which is no better, except that it's a Cup operation, though not a quality one. I said over the past season numerous times that the best thing that Bowman could ever do was to leave RAB Racing, and I'll likely say that about James Buescher next year. But the fact that Buescher is leaving that organization makes me wonder about the health of Turner's outfit, especially since they're now involved in the Cup Series with what was Phoenix Racing. This announcement, combined with the fact that James Finch has said that he intends to run a car for Bobby Labonte also makes me wonder if there might have been promises broken in the deal that Turner and Harry Scott had with Finch, and that Turner and Scott may not have the resources to run a Cup team that they thought they had. Why else would a driver like Buescher leave a team that he has family connections to that he's won a championship for if there wasn't something going on that we don't know about. Could Buescher's departure be sponsor driven, because that's the only thing I can think of. We know that Nelson Piquet, Jr. has a sponsor, and that Dylan Kwasniewski may also have a sponsor, but it's possible that Buescher may not have a sponsor. We know that Turner-Scott was going to diminish their team by one car, but I wonder if they're actually going to drop by two cars in 2014? I know one thing. Something doesn't quite add up here. 1289. ch posted: 12.13.2013 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think this has anything to do with Phoenix Racing. Besides, Finch said when the sale was announced that he would field a car in the high profile races for years to come and that he could never truly walk away. I think that this is just showing that TSM had NO plans to move Buescher up to NW. Think about it, if you're Buescher, wouldn't you want to be moving up after winning races and a championship? If TSM wasn't prepared to give that to him, then I think it is time for him to move on. If the RAB deal ends up flailing like for Bowman, then at least he will most likely have TSM to fall back on if needed. 1290. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.14.2013 - 5:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) Also, look at Davide Valsecchi, Giorgio Pantano, Jules Bianchi (yes, I know he has a French flag, but he's NOT really French), and Luca Filippi. I know this sounds a bit crazy, but I think the F1 teams have a strong bias against Italians. Any time a GP2 driver wins the title, he is in F1 the next year, but if he's Italian, he gets kicked in the nuts. I know Pantano already had a chance, but he proved himself in winning the title in a car that can't even contend for wins since then. Bianchi is criticized every time you turn around. Filippi struggles to find rides in any series. Valsecchi had to squeeze Lotus's balls just to get a test ride even when it was clear even HE was a better driver to go with than Maldonado. Jarno Trulli got stuck with Caterham after arguably the best year of his career. It's sad, but because all the teams are Brit-o-sphere or German, you become an object of hatred if you aren't Brit-o-sphere or German. Just look at how much time Force India wasted on di Resta. If that had been Jerome d'Ambrosio sucking that bad in that car, he wouldn't have made it to the end of year one. 1291. We need more Onion posted: 12.14.2013 - 6:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Valsecchi had to squeeze Lotus's balls just to get a test ride even when it was clear even HE was a better driver to go with than Maldonado" 40 million $ is 40 million $ for any team. Valsecchi's enormous talent can't compensate for having little backing... but I wouldn't say that they have anything against Italians in particular, no team cares about Fabio Leimer or Stoffel VanDoorne either and they are not Italians. (And I don't quite understand why you brought up Bianchi, his relatives are Belgian, closest Italian connection is his great-grandfather.) @Sean: "My definition of prospect is anyone who shows the most potential in feeder series regardless of whether the major league teams are actually interested in them or not." Of course, you are right, my wording was not exactly the best. The thing is he did NOT show being the fastest in GP2, he lurked around the front and won a few races (2 to be exact), but before the second half of 2011 he was never a serious championship contender. Given that he has a record number of GP2 starts, I think the comparison with Keller would be more fitting than you think. (One great season, few other wins, many starts, no top-tier rides despite good amount of talent) 1292. We need more Onion posted: 12.14.2013 - 6:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "won a few races (2 to be exact" Before his move to Coloni, I meant. And I also want to point out that I like Filippi and wish him a successful Indycar career. 1293. startandparkfan posted: 12.14.2013 - 11:18 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Today in 1947 Bill France and others got together at the streamline hotel and formed NASCAR! 1294. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.14.2013 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well i guess people who said he "married" into his ride at Turner-Scott, James just debunked that out of the water. 1295. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.14.2013 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was announced a few days ago, but IndyCar will officially incorporate manufacturer-specific aero kits for the 2015 season for Chevrolet and Honda. I have mixed feelings about this, because I'm glad that we'll see different bodied IndyCars racing together, but I'm afraid that it will affect the quality of racing that we've seen with the DW12s. The last two Indianapolis 500s have been some of the best races of all time, and that ws mainly due to the fact that all cars had spec chassis in the DW12. I'm worried that the new aero kits will result in one aero kit having an advantage over another, thus making the 500s less exciting. 1296. cjs3872 posted: 12.14.2013 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @1294, James Buescher did not "marry" into his ride at Turner-Scott Motorsports. He was already driving for that team when he got married. Many felt it did give him some built-in job security, but as you said, he's left that behind, now that he's left that operation. But signing for RAB Racing might end up being career suicide, because look at what's become of Alex Bowman. If something doesn't fall into his lap (like one of the BK Racing cars, which is no better), he's likely to be rideless in 2014. And he's one of the most promising prospects, or was until RAB Racing sabotaged him. I just wonder if Buescher is positioning himself to join his cousin Chris at Roush if Trevor Bayne has to get out of his ride at Roush due to his illness, because Roush is going to need someone that's at least an adequate replacement if that were to happen, and James already has a family tie at Roush. 1297. Paul posted: 12.14.2013 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see James Buescher's move from Turner Scott Motorsports to RAB Racing as a great, yet somewhat high-risk career move on his part. Not only does he finally get a chance to race full-time in the Nationwide Series, (Although he did make a full-time attempt for Phoenix Racing in 2010 before getting axed.) but he gets to do so for a decent, single-car Nationwide-only team that hadn't won a pole or had a season with multiple top five finishes until this past season with Alex Bowman behind the wheel. So needless to say, there's very little pressure to perform very well for Buescher, yet at the same time there is potential in that organization for them to be a competitive team. And should sponsorship dollars unfortunately dry up, or if Buescher decides that RAB Racing isn't the right place for him, he still has his father-in-law's team to fall back on, even if it's not in a Nationwide ride like he has now. Now that he's left TSM, this seems like a win-win situation for Buescher. If he succeeds, he'll prove that he doesn't need his father-in-law's team to make it in NASCAR. And if he doesn't, he should still have TSM as a backup plan to maintain his relevancy. No matter what happens, I love Buescher's latest career move. 1298. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.14.2013 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The truth is James Beuscher was already being noticed by Scott racing Legends when he met his daughter and they fell in love. 1299. Paul posted: 12.14.2013 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) After reading more into the story about Landon Cassill becoming the primary driver for JD Motorsports, I discovered that Cassill also plans on driving full-time for Circle Sport in the Sprint Cup Series to go along with his full Nationwide slate. With 69 national NASCAR series races presumably on his schedule, Cassill will be a very busy driver in 2014, and will do so for two teams which combined for just one top ten finish last season. He might skip a few races here and there due to scheduling conflicts (such as the Road America/Sonoma weekend in June), but I fully expect him to attempt at least 60-65 races next season, if not all 69 races. Kudos to Cassill for agreeing to take on two full-time rides for two of the most underfunded full-time teams in NASCAR. It's one thing to run this many races when you know you've got a shot at winning quite a few of them, like so many of the Cup drivers do; but to run this many races knowing that you only have a handful of opportunities at getting a top 10-15 finish is pretty remarkable if you ask me. When I think of a perseverant NASCAR driver, the first name that comes to mind is Landon Cassill. This story only strengthens my belief that he is the most perseverant driver in NASCAR today. 1300. jabber1990 posted: 12.14.2013 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (6) so, when Kyle Busch runs 69 races a year its bad and terrible, but when Landon Cassill does it, we cheer for him? 1301. David posted: 12.14.2013 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) ^Cassill has a legitimate reason. He tends to not turn Nationwide races into predictable depression-fests that are constantly the butt of jokes. 1302. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.15.2013 - 11:24 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Kyle Busch has no reason too run the lower series, his car owner and sponsers make him do it (plus i think that selfish goal of '200 NASCAR wins' takes over as well). Cassill is also running for teams who suck (or currently suck but getting better). Cassill is also 25 years old, still learning about this and that, Cassill has also been thrown around different rides for some reason (i hope people can give me a reason why, i know he left BKR for not getting paid). 1303. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.15.2013 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Landon Cassill still has something to prove. He is bound and determined to show he can drive a race car and, if given a good opportunity, can be a star. Like Paul said, he is persevering. Kyle is just self obsessed and is using these events to inflate his ridiculous "total win count" while, in the one Series that truly matters, he is being mutilated by Jimmie Johnson. Same goes for Brad btw. And Brad I really don't understand. He already has a Cup championship, has shown the ability to hold up to the pressure of a title fight and thrive under it, and is the only true championship threat to the 48 because he isn't a JJ fanboy like others and he gives JJ the yips. Why he cares so much about NWide is beyond me. 1304. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.15.2013 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) An absolutely stupid call by Ron Rivera to pass up the easy FG opportunity and the chance to go up by 13 points. We missed the first down and then gave up a TD. That was a John Fox move. 1305. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.15.2013 - 6:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like our special teams just pulled our ass out of the first, as well as the Human Bowling Ball Mike Tolbert. Let's just hope the ghost of John Fox doesn't take over Rivera's body again. 1306. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.15.2013 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Same goes for Brad btw. And Brad I really don't understand. He already has a Cup championship, has shown the ability to hold up to the pressure of a title fight and thrive under it, and is the only true championship threat to the 48 because he isn't a JJ fanboy like others and he gives JJ the yips. Why he cares so much about NWide is beyond me." DSFF i'll put it too you this way: When Brads head isn't up his @$$, he can win and beat anybody heads up with all the pressure in the world on him. When Brads head is up his @$$, he gets easily pissed off by the small stuff and doesn't focus on what is important. Or the reason why he drove in NWide this year is because Roger cares more about the Owners title then the Cup title. Cuz lets face it, in the races that the #22 finished ahead of the #12, Sam would have won championship this year. 1307. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.15.2013 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The NFL needs to investigate the Saint's kicker for gambling and throwing the game. To have such a short field goal and kick it so low and have it already heading dead left even before it got blocked by the Rams player, that was blatant. He is involved with gambling on the other team. SmokeFan, you are 100% correct about Brad and Penske. 1308. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.15.2013 - 7:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright, Dallas down one, 1:31 left, ball in Romo's hands. And it is December. What will happen? 1309. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.15.2013 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's an interception. 1310. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.15.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, hide all sharp objects from Romo. How many of these can he take? And how long until the city of Dallas riots, takes hostages, and refuses to release them until Jerry Jones' head is delivered to them in a box? 1311. TS1420 posted: 12.15.2013 - 9:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's a couple of NFL Christmas Carols, appropriate for some of today's games. (Sung to the tune of It's Beginning To Look A Lot Like Christmas) "It's beginning to look a lot like December, for the Dallas Cowboys. Romo's throwing the intercepts and and Defense is inept. It's December, for sure" (Sung to the tune of Noel) "Throw a flag! Throw a flag! No flags... No flags... Poor New England Patriots are looking for a flag on each broken up pass" 1312. 18fan posted: 12.15.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man the Bengals look terrible right now. This team is very talented, but extremely inconsistent. 1313. TS1420 posted: 12.15.2013 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Lot's of people getting thrown under the bus after the Dallas-Green Bay game. Garrett throws Romo under the bus claiming he changed the play. And Romo throws Beasley under the bus claiming he didn't complete the route. Who's next to join The Great Dallas Bus-Throwing Party of 2013? Dez? Neckbeard the Backup? Jerruh? 1314. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.15.2013 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dez left the field before the game was over, which I've always hated, so he can't say much. 1315. joey2448 posted: 12.16.2013 - 5:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Something I don't understand is all the tweets and social media posts that absolutely belittle guys like Tony Romo. I saw ESPN among others that tweeted stuff like, "It's December, and Romo just threw a fourth-quarter pick...things are back to normal." I mean it may be funny if a fan says that, but for the media to post stuff like that is very unprofessional imo. If they want to tell the story of the game, use stats and actual information. Another thing I saw ESPN post a few weeks ago was a cartoon image of Peyton Manning standing with his foot propped up on a dragon that had the face of Chiefs coach Andy Reid (with the trademark mustache and glasses) and Manning was dressed as a brave knight that had just slayed the loathsome dragon....I mean, c'mon ESPN, have some f**kin class. 1316. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 12.16.2013 - 7:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of the brave knight, SI named Peyton Manning the 2013 Sportsman of the Year. 1317. Ched Little posted: 12.16.2013 - 9:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) joey2448, consider that Manning only won the game in KC thanks to help and bias from the refs... KC should have won that 63-21. 1318. The Sound posted: 12.16.2013 - 10:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have no clue what to expect from my Lions tonight. I literally have no feeling as to how the game may transpire. I possess some faint glimmers of hope, but I also remember the past. Losing a game like tonight, to me, is worse than the perpetually awful teams losing. I know our team has so much potential, but it feels on the verge of being squandered. Calvin Johnson is 28. If we're fortunate, we have another 3-4 years of him at his peak. We must win now. I know the NASCAR discussion has tapered off to some degree in recent days, but I plan to revive my plans to simulate a season on NR2003 between the greatest drivers of all time. To that end, I would like to request (of those who are interested) lists of your top 75 (or 100?) drivers of all time. The more lists I get, the better I will reflect the opinions of the board. Ideally, they should be ranked in terms of greatness so I can prioritize drivers making the field. Also, please include the season for that particular driver that you consider to be the most impressive, and include "NR2003" somewhere in your list so that I may easily CTRL-F when needed. I know that is a huge request; I would be extraordinarily grateful to any and all that participate. Past my ability to select the field of drivers for the simulation, I would be very interested to peruse the lists just for the sake of debate. I will not be posting my own list, as I have only watched NASCAR since 2002 (9 years old) and therefore could only reasonably rank the drivers in that era. The Jimmie Johnson era. Unfortunately for everyone, I may in fact be the reason Jimmie Johnson rules NASCAR. 2002 was the first season I watched, and that season coincided with the end of Jeff Gordon's championships (my favorite driver). In fact, some aspects of my life uncannily mirror Jeff's career trajectory since I first became a fan. Should I cease watching NASCAR? Ha. 1319. We need more Onion posted: 12.16.2013 - 11:50 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) NR2003, anything with that game is cool. I loved it 10 years ago, love it now, same goes for the 2002-2006 EA NASCAR Games, they are cool, but still not NR2003. I last started a 2000 season as Wally and his #75, with all the assists off and the AI on 110%. It is great fun and goes quite like Wally's actual '00, mostly 30th places with a few top 20s. I think I am 29th in points going into Indy. 1320. Paul posted: 12.16.2013 - 12:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ben Kennedy has officially been named as James Buescher's replacement in the #31 truck for Turner Scott Motorsports. 1321. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.16.2013 - 1:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 1315, BSPN has no damn class. They had class in the 70's, 80's and 90's but now? Hahahahah, really..... not. Speaking of football, was watching SVP (Scott Van Pelt) show on ESPN News (one of the few real shows on BSPN) last week, he has a segement called "The 1 Big Thing." SVP talked about an incident during a Chiefs-Broncos game in which a fan got stabbed. As much i pile on NASCAR fans various things, i'll say this: NFL fans are savages, bloodthursty savages. The 2 races i went too, i didn't have too worry about been stabbed or punched, just worried about a car flying into the fence. Because of what has happened this year, i'll NEVER go too a NFL game, ever. SVP also talked about no surving beer after a certain time. SVP suggested limit by # sold, i say you stop after half-time. I've been too a few Detriot Tigers games and had a few run-ins with people who were "over-surved." Freaks me out. Here is what i would do: NFL: stop selling beer at half-time MLB: stop selling beer in the 5th inning (which i think they do already) NHL: stop selling beer after mid-way through the 2nd period NASCAR: stop selling beer after half-way. NBA: stop selling beer at half-time 1322. David posted: 12.16.2013 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "To that end, I would like to request (of those who are interested) lists of your top 75 (or 100?) drivers of all time. The more lists I get, the better I will reflect the opinions of the board. Ideally, they should be ranked in terms of greatness so I can prioritize drivers making the field. Also, please include the season for that particular driver that you consider to be the most impressive, and include "NR2003" somewhere in your list so that I may easily CTRL-F when needed. I know that is a huge request; I would be extraordinarily grateful to any and all that participate. Past my ability to select the field of drivers for the simulation, I would be very interested to peruse the lists just for the sake of debate." I do have several revisions to make to my top 75 list after reading one of Sean's rants against Dale Jarrett from a few years ago, but I won't bother posting them if no one else is going to make a list (which I really wouldn't blame them for, considering the furor those lists seem to cause). "I will not be posting my own list, as I have only watched NASCAR since 2002 (9 years old) and therefore could only reasonably rank the drivers in that era. The Jimmie Johnson era." If having followed NASCAR for a long time were the prerequisite for making a list, then mine should have been thrown out long ago. I only really started taking an active interest in NASCAR around 2007. 1323. murb posted: 12.16.2013 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'll try and make a Top 75 list when I get around to it. 1324. jabber1990 posted: 12.16.2013 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this is probably a discussion that has been discussed more than once, no offence to Ben Kennedy but I worry about whats going to happen if he's involved in something controvercial (it will happen, its happened to everyone) at an ISC track? how would NASCAR make the right decision without making everyone upset? 1325. The Sound posted: 12.16.2013 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I do have several revisions to make to my top 75 list after reading one of Sean's rants against Dale Jarrett from a few years ago, but I won't bother posting them if no one else is going to make a list (which I really wouldn't blame them for, considering the furor those lists seem to cause)." Go ahead. The furor is not your fault. Conversations ought to be civil, and it IS possible to discuss driver rankings without yelling at one another. "this is probably a discussion that has been discussed more than once," True. I have not been around long enough to witness any conversations, but I figured it would be appropriate to ask after 2013, considering if some lists already exist they may have changed. For example, a 6th championship by Johnson could vault him into your historical Top 5, or something along those lines. It only seems prudent to update any such list after the conclusion of each season. If anyone has ever made a list similar to the one I need, feel free to direct me to it, and do not feel obligated to update it if you do not wish to. 1326. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.16.2013 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Speaking of football, was watching SVP (Scott Van Pelt) show on ESPN News (one of the few real shows on BSPN) last week, he has a segement called "The 1 Big Thing." SVP talked about an incident during a Chiefs-Broncos game in which a fan got stabbed. As much i pile on NASCAR fans various things, i'll say this: NFL fans are savages, bloodthursty savages. The 2 races i went too, i didn't have too worry about been stabbed or punched, just worried about a car flying into the fence. Because of what has happened this year, i'll NEVER go too a NFL game, ever. SVP also talked about no surving beer after a certain time. SVP suggested limit by # sold, i say you stop after half-time. I've been too a few Detriot Tigers games and had a few run-ins with people who were "over-surved." Freaks me out." There's one thing that you forgot to mention: how was he able to bring the weapon into the stadium without question from security. I know that after the Boston Marathon bombing, it was much longer to go through security at the Coke 600 in May even though I was eventually cleared. The other thing is I heard that tailgating has been banned at the Super Bowl in February, which should alleviate the alcohol issue at least slightly. I do agree with you that NFL fans are animal-like. Many of them just seem like they're there to get drunk (same with NASCAR races). It is funny that the people at IndyCar races are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet at a sporting event, and many of them are sober (except for the Indy 500, of course). 1327. David posted: 12.16.2013 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Go ahead. The furor is not your fault. Conversations ought to be civil, and it IS possible to discuss driver rankings without yelling at one another." Well now, someone is actually taking a reasonable view of the matter. With that in mind, I'll go ahead: DT75CD, Second Edition 1. Richard Petty (1967) 2. Dale Earnhardt (1987) 3. David Pearson (1973) 4. Bobby Allison (1972) 5. Herb Thomas (1953) 6. Jeff Gordon (1998) 7. Jimmie Johnson (2009) 8. Lee Petty (1959) 9. Cale Yarborough (1977) 10. Darrell Waltrip (1981) 11. Joe Weatherly (1962) 12. Buck Baker (1957) 13. Rusty Wallace (1993) 14. Bobby Isaac (1970) 15. Tony Stewart (2005) 16. Bill Elliott (1985) 17. Ned Jarrett (1964) 18. Matt Kenseth (2013) 19. Tim Flock (1955) 20. Junior Johnson (1965) 21. Terry Labonte (1996) 22. Fred Lorenzen (1964) 23. Fireball Roberts (1958) 24. Rex White (1960) 25. Mark Martin (1993) 26. Kevin Harvick (2010) 27. Curtis Turner (1950) 28. Bobby Labonte (2000) 29. Denny Hamlin (2010) 30. Alan Kulwicki (1992) 31. Benny Parsons (1977) 32. Harry Gant (1991) 33. Geoff Bodine (1990) 34. Davey Allison (1992) 35. Ricky Rudd (1983) 36. Ernie Irvan (1994) 37. Tim Richmond (1986) 38. Buddy Baker (1975) 39. Neil Bonnett (1981) 40. Dale Jarrett (1999) 41. Kyle Busch (2008) 42. Fonty Flock (1951) 43. Jim Paschal (1955) 44. Kurt Busch (2009) 45. Speedy Thompson (1956) 46. Dick Hutcherson (1965) 47. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969) 48. Billy Wade (1964) 49. Jack Smith (1962) 50. Brad Keselowski (2012) 51. Donnie Allison (1970) 52. Carl Edwards (2008) 53. Darel Dieringer (1964) 54. James Hylton (1970) 55. Elmo Langley (1969) 56. Jeff Burton (2000) 57. Hershel McGriff (1954) 58. Marshall Teague (1951) 59. Marvin Panch (1957) 60. Paul Goldsmith (1957) 61. Dick Rathmann (1954) 62. Wendell Scott (1964) 63. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) 64. Jim Reed (1958) 65. Charlie Glotzbach (1968) 66. Cotton Owens (1961) 67. Tiny Lund (1965) 68. John Sears (1967) 69. Sterling Marlin (1995) 70. Neil Castles (1969) 71. Red Byron (1949) 72. Bob Welborn (1958) 73. Glen Wood (1960) 74. Pete Hamilton (1970) 75. Bobby Hamilton (1998) Revisions: - Dale Jarrett was moved from 28th to 40th - Kurt Busch was moved from 36th to 44th - Ricky Rudd was moved from 39th to 35th - Ernie Irvan was moved from 49th to 36th - Tim Richmond was moved from 44th to 37th - Buddy Baker was moved from 40th to 38th - Neil Bonnett was moved from 32nd to 39th - Davey Allison was moved from 31st to 34th Overall, I like this edition a lot better. 1328. murb posted: 12.16.2013 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Alright, here goes nothing. Here's my Top 75 list for The Sound's sim. I guess I'll also put their best year next to them as well, since I'm assuming that we're still doing that part for the sim too. Just keep in mind too that this isn't entirely in order. 1-20 will probably be in order, but then the rest of them will just be guys to fill out the list. I'll try to keep everybody in order as best as I can, but it might be a little iffy in some spots. And also, if you're wondering, wins, championships, and career longevity were the three factors I used here. Okay, goodbye next two hours of my life... 1. Richard Petty (1967) 2. Dale Earnhardt (1987) 3. David Pearson (1968) 4. Jeff Gordon (1998) 5. Bobby Allison (1971) 6. Cale Yarborough (1978) 7. Jimmie Johnson (2009) 8. Darrell Waltrip (1981) 9. Herb Thomas (1953) 10. Lee Petty (1959) 11. Buck Baker (1956) 12. Rusty Wallace (1993) 13. Ned Jarrett (1964) 14. Tony Stewart (2005) 15. Junior Johnson (1965) 16. Mark Martin (1998) 17. Fireball Roberts (1957) 18. Tim Flock (1955) 19. Bill Elliott (1985) 20. Bobby Isaac (1970) 21. Joe Weatherly (1962) 22. Fred Lorenzen (1963) 23. Matt Kenseth (2013) 24. Terry Labonte (1996) 25. Rex White (1960) 26. Ricky Rudd (1986) 27. Jim Paschal (1967) 28. Davey Allison (1992) 29. Kurt Busch (2002) 30. Tim Richmond (1986) 31. Ernie Irvan (1994) 32. Alan Kulwicki (1992) 33. Kevin Harvick (2010) 34. Harry Gant (1991) 35. Geoff Bodine (1990) 36. Neil Bonnett (1981) 37. Benny Parsons (1978) 38. Denny Hamlin (2010) 39. Kyle Busch (2008) 40. Marvin Panch (1957) 41. Curtis Turner (1958) 42. Dale Jarrett (1999) 43. Fonty Flock (1951) 44. Buddy Baker (1975) 45. Carl Edwards (2008) 46. Jeff Burton (1999) 47. Bobby Labonte (2000) 48. Brad Keselowski (2012) 49. Donnie Allison (1970) 50. Dick Hutcherson (1965) 51. Speedy Thompson (1956) 52. Jack Smith (1957) 53. Dale Earnhardt Jr (2004) 54. Greg Biffle (2005) 55. Cotton Owens (1961) 56. Leeroy Yarborough (1969) 57. Kyle Petty (1992) 58. Dick Rathmann (1954) 59. Paul Goldsmith (1957) 60. Bob Welborn (1958) 61. Dave Marcis (1976) 62. Morgan Shepherd (1990) 63. Sterling Marlin (1995) 64. Jamie McMurray (2010) 65. Red Byron (1949) 66. Charlie Glotzbach (1970) 67. Marshall Teague (1951) 68. Tiny Lund (1971) 69. Glen Wood (1960) 70. Darrel Dieringer (1964) 71. Ward Burton (2000) 72. Wendell Scott (1964) 73. Hershel McGriff (1954) 74. Ken Schrader (1991) 75. Bobby Hamilton (1996) Holy shit, that was hard. 1329. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.16.2013 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "There's one thing that you forgot to mention: how was he able to bring the weapon into the stadium without question from security. I know that after the Boston Marathon bombing, it was much longer to go through security at the Coke 600 in May even though I was eventually cleared. The other thing is I heard that tailgating has been banned at the Super Bowl in February, which should alleviate the alcohol issue at least slightly. I do agree with you that NFL fans are animal-like. Many of them just seem like they're there to get drunk (same with NASCAR races). It is funny that the people at IndyCar races are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet at a sporting event, and many of them are sober (except for the Indy 500, of course)." I didn't know about the weapon thing, that is a new one too me right there. MIS sells out there security staff too another company. From what i hear, MIS has some of the tightest, well prepared security of any track NASCAR goes too. BTW the Indycar fans you come across are nice, the ones i come across are bitter, wading through the current IICS stuff longing for the old days when open-wheel racing was #1 and CRAPCAR was #2. Indycar is partly where is it because fans don't give a shit. 1330. The Sound posted: 12.16.2013 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Thanks so much to David and Murb for your lists. I just double-checked to verify, and the ratings formula I use does work for every season in NASCAR history. I was afraid Richard Petty's insane win total would be unfairly rewarded with an unbeatable rating, but his finishing stats (probably the most important variable) range from 84-94 for 1967. For comparison, Jeff Gordon's '98 is 84-94 for finishing. Strangely enough, I have yet to find a Johnson season that includes a finishing rating higher than 79-89. Perhaps a reflection of having to be excellent over a shorter portion of the season? Petty will be a beast in the sim...at the short tracks. His stats at the other tracks are not stellar, reflecting the lack of speedways and such on the schedule. I expect similar stats for some of the other earlier legends. 1331. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.16.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Congrats to Richard and Kyle Petty, as they become great-grandpa and grandpa today, respectively. Austin and Sarah Petty welcomed their son, Adam, into the world today. 1332. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.16.2013 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "2002 was the first season I watched, and that season coincided with the end of Jeff Gordon's championships (my favorite driver). In fact, some aspects of my life uncannily mirror Jeff's career trajectory since I first became a fan." His career may have tapered off in a relative sense, but since 2001 ended he gained a real personality, an understanding of the fans, and a true fanbase. People forget now, but in his prime, he wasn't a whole lot different than JJ. As for NASCAR fans and drinking, that has gone WAY down compared to the 90s. Fans would be shitfaced before the race even started. Fans were constantly doing stupid drunk stuff that was hilarious to watch. Now I never see that. Also, I have never once seen a fight at a NASCAR race in the atands. I have at Bowman Gray, but never at a Cup race. NASCAR fans are happy drunks. 1333. jabber1990 posted: 12.16.2013 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "His career may have tapered off in a relative sense, but since 2001 ended he gained a real personality, an understanding of the fans, and a true fanbase. People forget now, but in his prime, he wasn't a whole lot different than JJ." i've always been told that Brooke kind of had his balls in her hand during their whole marriage, but TMZ is about as reliable as Glenn Beck i'm not trying to slander anyone, but I also think that Samantha Busch is a gold digger, why else would anyone marry Kyle Busch? 1334. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.16.2013 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Between Jeff's stepfather who openly laments not letting him have a childhood while he lived out his own childhood fantasy through Jeff, and Brooke telling him when to breathe, he never had a chance to develop a real personality until Brooke divorced him after he left his stepdad as his business manager as he couldn't handle the immense money coming in. Jimmie doesn't really have an excuse. He grew up in a trailer in So Cal, riding dirt bikes and driving desert trucks. His Dad was a heavy machine operator and his Mom drove a school bus. He should be as interesting as the Dos Equis guy. Instead he is the opposite. 1335. David posted: 12.16.2013 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Petty will be a beast in the sim...at the short tracks. His stats at the other tracks are not stellar, reflecting the lack of speedways and such on the schedule. I expect similar stats for some of the other earlier legends." The Sound, if you haven't already decided on the schedule for your simulation, here is a list of venues you can consider: Daytona International Speedway Martinsville Speedway Richmond International Raceway Darlington Raceway Charlotte Motor Speedway Atlanta Motor Speedway Bristol Motor Speedway North Wilkesboro Speedway Michigan International Speedway Dover International Speedway Talladega Superspeedway Rockingham Speedway Pocono Raceway Riverside International Raceway Columbia Speedway Music City Motorplex New Hampshire Motor Speedway Hickory Motor Speedway Asheville-Weaverville Speedway Phoenix International Raceway Orange Speedway Watkins Glen International Bowman Gray Stadium Greenville-Pickens Speedway Sonoma Raceway Texas Motor Speedway Auto Club Speedway Piedmont Interstate Fairgrounds Indianapolis Motor Speedway Langhorne Speedway Charlotte Fairgrounds Las Vegas Motor Speedway Kansas Speedway Homestead-Miami Speedway Before you question the presence of tracks like Las Vegas and Texas on here, I listed every track that has run at least 15 events in Cup history. Besides, it just isn't NASCAR without at least one boring cookie-cutter race, right? ;) 1336. The Sound posted: 12.17.2013 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know what's worse, being a Lions fan or a Jeff Gordon fan. The Lions have never been good in my time following the team. I'm beginning to feel like Calvin Johnson will end up just like Barry Sanders. All-world athlete, nothing to show for it. And Jeff has never won a championship since I became his fan, and he's really only come close a couple times. It's just sports, and life will go on, but it's so disheartening at times like this, to know that I have next season to look forward to...Likely another year of disappointment. David, I will look at your list of tracks tomorrow. Don't count on Las Vegas, though. :) 1337. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.17.2013 - 8:14 am Rate this comment: (1) (3) At least Jeff's championships were witnessed and remembered by people under 30. When was the Lions last NFL title? Wasn't it in the 50s? Plus, over the past 10 years, you have still got to see first hand the moxie that won him 4 championships and almost 60 races in his first 9 seasons despite a sluggish start in his first two seasons. The '04 Dega race (despite a much faster car, Joon got schooled by Jeff), '04 Cali (Kahne, the next in a long line of Next Jeff Gordons, had a better car, but was well behind Jeff even when he had to pit), '05 Spring Martinsville (3 laps down, no problem), '05 Fall Martinsville (more worn tires, no problem), '06 Sears Point (cool box dies early on a boiling hot day), '07 Southern 500 (give him 4 hours and 500 miles on a hot day on a tough track, and he'll find the front by the end), '07 Fall Dega (last lap slingshot? Yep), '11 Phoenix (he is still willing to "sweep the leg" on yet another Next Jeff Gordon no less), '11 Atlanta (EPIC, how did JJ not win?), and '13 Martinsville (he refused to lose). 1338. Kubica Fan Ireland posted: 12.17.2013 - 8:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Has anyone on hear seen kyle's colours for 2014. They are a disaster. 2014 looks like being a disaster in terms of paint schemes Johnson being the notable exception. That is the thing about Johnson, next year if he matches Petty and Earnhardt at least he will look the part. 1339. We need more Onion posted: 12.17.2013 - 10:23 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kyle's are, indeed, a step back from this year's look, but not that horrible. And JJ's ride has looked great ever since this striped design is in effect (except that horrid yellow scheme). Imo, the traditional Petty Colours look not-so-good, I much prefer a darker shade, like the one they use when Almirola runs the USAF car. 1340. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.17.2013 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Between Jeff's stepfather who openly laments not letting him have a childhood while he lived out his own childhood fantasy through Jeff, and Brooke telling him when to breathe, he never had a chance to develop a real personality until Brooke divorced him after he left his stepdad as his business manager as he couldn't handle the immense money coming in." Jeff had a personality when he first came in (i mean come on, he cried when he won his first race.) He had personality but Brooke and his stepfather buried it early and often. I think early Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson have one problem: they care about winning too much. All early JG and JJ care about is winning big trophies and collecting big checks, not caring about anything else. I seem too remember Jeff Gordon said way back when "I'm not here to finish 2nd, 3rd or 4th. I'm here too win, I WANT TOO WIN!!!!" Ray Evernham even said "90% of the time when me and Jeff were together it was talking about how too make the car faster." 1341. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 3:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NR2003 I started with David's list and adjusted (I also changed some years). I'd much rather see Foyt, Gurney, and Andretti than guys with 5 or 7 wins over very long careers. I don't think you can have McGriff without having Elder, who usually bested him in Winston West and managed to win two Cup races at Riverside in West equipment, arguably more impressive than what McGriff did. I certainly went somewhat heavy on the what-if with my placements of guys like Gant, Irvan, Richmond, and Allison. For the years that are in my opinion debatable, I made an argument. 1. David Pearson (1973) 2. Richard Petty (1967) 3. Dale Earnhardt (1987) 4. Bobby Allison (1972) 5. Cale Yarborough (1978) - really you could choose any of his championship seasons. He was the most dominant in terms of average % led in '76, had his best average finish in '77, and had the most wins in '78. Any of those would work. 6. Jeff Gordon (1998) 7. Darrell Waltrip (1981) 8. Jimmie Johnson (2013) - his second most dominant season in terms of avg. % led to 2009, he led the points standings longer this year than any other, and NEVER felt quite as inevitable as he did this year ('06 people thought Kenseth had something for him, '07 Johnson, '08 Edwards and Busch, '09 he kinda felt inevitable but Stewart led the points standings for most of the year, '10 Harvick...really, he never felt more inevitable than this year even WITH Kenseth providing more serious opposition than most other years) 9. Tim Flock (1955) 10. Fireball Roberts (1958) 11. Herb Thomas (1953) 12. Lee Petty (1959) 13. Ned Jarrett (1965) - Okay true, it was the year of the Chrysler boycott but even considering that the dominance was staggering 14. Junior Johnson (1965) - ditto 15. Rusty Wallace (1993) - both he and Earnhardt were much better than they were in '89. It's just that Earnhardt elevated his performance by MORE. 16. Tony Stewart (2005) 17. Joe Weatherly (1963) - in his case, I'm more impressed by winning a championship for a bunch of different teams, some of which were underfunded journeyman teams, than being more dominant in a dominant car 18. Buck Baker (1957) - because I can't pick 1956, can I? 19. Bobby Isaac (1969) - his pole/win records in that year are way too staggering for me to think of picking his championship season 20. Fred Lorenzen (1963) 21. Curtis Turner (1950) 22. Bill Elliott (1985) 23. Rex White (1960) 24. Harry Gant (1991) 25. Mark Martin (1993) - I just think Roush was a LOT stronger in 1998 than in '93. Chad Little and Johnny Benson and Ted Musgrave 26. Ernie Irvan (1994) 27. Tim Richmond (1986) 28. Davey Allison (1992) 29. Matt Kenseth (2013) 30. Benny Parsons (1977) 31. Alan Kulwicki (1992) 32. Kurt Busch (2013) - Yes, I think what he did this year was more impressive than anything he did for Roush. 33. Denny Hamlin (2010) 34. Kyle Busch (2008) 35. Terry Labonte (1984) 36. Ricky Rudd (1986) 37. Geoff Bodine (1990) 38. Neil Bonnett (1981) 39. Dale Jarrett (1997) - This was his most dominant, most versatile season. In 1999, he was just luckier (especially that the #24 team was having bad luck and starting to collapse chemistry-wise) 40. Buddy Baker (1975) 41. Fonty Flock (1951) 42. Dick Hutcherson (1965) 43. Kevin Harvick (2006) - his versatility this year was astounding and I really thought he was going to be a real threat afterward. Whoops. 44. Bobby Labonte (1999) - statistically, everything about this year was better than 2000 except his points position and average finish. In other words, I'd say he was just luckier in 2000. 45. Jim Paschal (1962) - did most of what he did this season without Petty Enterprises which makes it more impressive than '63 or '67 46. Carl Edwards (2008) 47. Billy Wade (1964) 48. Marshall Teague (1951) 49. Ray Elder (1972) 50. Hershel McGriff (1954) 51. Brad Keselowski (2012) 52. Red Byron (1949) 53. Speedy Thompson (1956) - unlike with Baker there's not a choice with regard to his best season this time, as much as I'd LIKE to pick something else 54. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969) 55. Jack Smith (1962) 56. Donnie Allison (1970) 57. Jeff Burton (2000) 58. James Hylton (1970) - I'll take a win at Richmond over a win at Talladega 59. Elmo Langley (1966) 60. Darel Dieringer (1967) 61. Marvin Panch (1957) 62. Cotton Owens (1959) - one of the few cases where I'll take consistency over wins because none of his '61 wins appeared to be dominant 63. A.J. Foyt (1972) 64. Dan Gurney (1964) - I'll choose this season because it was the only time a driver won NASCAR and Formula One races in the same season 65. Dick Rathman (1952) - I believe he spelled his name with one n as a NASCAR driver even though his birth name was Jim Rathmann, and it's still goofy that he and his brother, the 1960 Indy 500 winner, traded names, but whatever... 66. Wendell Scott (1964) 67. Sterling Marlin (1995) 68. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) 69. Paul Goldsmith (1957) 70. Charlie Glotzbach (1970) 71. Kasey Kahne (2006) 72. Mario Andretti (1969) 73. Tiny Lund (1963) - let's face it, his Daytona 500 win is the sole reason he is remembered. He was indeed most dominant in '71 but that was in Grand American cars, not Cup cars after he had dominated the Grand American series in several seasons and was kind of a fluke (I view this somewhat differently from Elder's wins at Riverside, but maybe that's hypocritical) 74. Bob Welborn (1958) 75. Glen Wood (1960) 1342. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 3:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "'07 Johnson" Under the Johnson entry, that was supposed to read Gordon obviously... "Chad Little and Johnny Benson and Ted Musgrave" I was supposed to add at the end of that "looked much stronger than they did at any other point in their career, especially in the start of the season because of the dominance of the Ford Taurus. They were running up front on ovals (Little 2nd at Texas, Musgrave 2nd at MARTINSVILLE, Benson in the top 10 in points early in the season despite missing a race, etc...) Wally was a complete non-factor on the ovals in '92-'93, and I think even he might have been in those Roush '98 cars. 1343. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) NR2003 I unintentionally forgot Biffle. I didn't really like listing Glen Wood there, and I did want Biffle. Place Greg Biffle (2005) after Scott and before Marlin and kick Wood off. An idea for The Sound: You should include all drivers listed on EVERYONE's top 75 list automatically and have a shootout qualifying race (or series) between the drivers who made some but not all the top 75 lists, to determine the last positions in the ultimate top 75. That would mean at the moment a shootout between the following drivers who made 1 or 2 but not all 3 lists: Mario Andretti Greg Biffle (seems like David forgot him too, or maybe left him off on purpose) Ward Burton Neil Castles Ray Elder A.J. Foyt Dan Gurney Bobby Hamilton Pete Hamilton James Hylton Kasey Kahne Elmo Langley Dave Marcis Jamie McMurray Kyle Petty Jim Reed Ken Schrader John Sears Morgan Shepherd Billy Wade Glen Wood (since I'm kicking him off) Wouldn't this kind of last chance qualifier be a great deal of fun (and much more than just giving 75 points for each 1st place down to 1 point for each 75th place?) 1344. murb posted: 12.17.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The LCQ is a great idea, Sean. I agree, we should do that to settle the final spots. 1345. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A.J. Foyt Racing renewed Takuma Sato for 2014. That was one of the most interesting situations to me because his 2013 was one of the most bizarre seasons in any series I've ever seen considering after 4 races entering the Indy 500 he was leading the points, he led the most laps in 3 of the last 9 races including a win at Long Beach and being passed on the last lap at Sao Paulo, then finished the season with 9 DNFs in the last 10 races to drop from 4th to 17th(!) in points. Ultimately, even though him wrecking Ryan Hunter-Reay in the pits at Pocono was the stupidest move of the season, more of the DNFs were mechanical-related than crash-related and that plus the fact that he DID get Foyt's first win since 2002 and first pole since 1999 were enough to just barely tip the balance in favor of keeping him. But I'd struggle to find someone who ran all the races in ANY series and dropped from leading the points after 4 races to 17th after 19 (ESPECIALLY in a 24-car grid), or from 4th after 9 races to 17th after 19. Even Geoff Bodine's 1994 and Jeremy Mayfield's 2000 were more understandable. There was never anything serious indicating that they weren't going to renew Sato, but the late announcement likely indicated they were contemplating alternatives (maybe they wanted Briscoe before he signed with Ganassi?) 1346. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "3 of the last 9 races" 3 of the first* 9 races 1347. David posted: 12.17.2013 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "8. Jimmie Johnson (2013) - his second most dominant season in terms of avg. % led to 2009, he led the points standings longer this year than any other, and NEVER felt quite as inevitable as he did this year ('06 people thought Kenseth had something for him, '07 Johnson, '08 Edwards and Busch, '09 he kinda felt inevitable but Stewart led the points standings for most of the year, '10 Harvick...really, he never felt more inevitable than this year even WITH Kenseth providing more serious opposition than most other years)" Duh. Now why didn't I put down 2013 for Johnson? That was really stupid. "32. Kurt Busch (2013) - Yes, I think what he did this year was more impressive than anything he did for Roush." Same here. "13. Ned Jarrett (1965) - Okay true, it was the year of the Chrysler boycott but even considering that the dominance was staggering" In your list on the Dover race page, you picked 1964 for Jarrett because "he was similarly dominant with much more competition even if he didn't win the title". "Greg Biffle (seems like David forgot him too, or maybe left him off on purpose)" Is it because he literally has done nothing but ride around when he's not getting his annual win? He is the invisible man of NASCAR. I'm going to repost my list again. NR2003 1. Richard Petty (1967) 2. Dale Earnhardt (1987) 3. David Pearson (1973) 4. Bobby Allison (1972) 5. Herb Thomas (1953) 6. Jeff Gordon (1998) 7. Jimmie Johnson (2013) 8. Lee Petty (1959) 9. Cale Yarborough (1977) 10. Darrell Waltrip (1981) 11. Joe Weatherly (1962) 12. Buck Baker (1957) 13. Rusty Wallace (1993) 14. Bobby Isaac (1970) 15. Tony Stewart (2005) 16. Bill Elliott (1985) 17. Ned Jarrett (1964) 18. Matt Kenseth (2013) 19. Tim Flock (1955) 20. Junior Johnson (1965) 21. Terry Labonte (1996) 22. Fred Lorenzen (1964) 23. Fireball Roberts (1958) 24. Rex White (1960) 25. Mark Martin (1993) 26. Kevin Harvick (2010) 27. Curtis Turner (1950) 28. Bobby Labonte (2000) 29. Denny Hamlin (2010) 30. Alan Kulwicki (1992) 31. Benny Parsons (1977) 32. Harry Gant (1991) 33. Geoff Bodine (1990) 34. Davey Allison (1992) 35. Ricky Rudd (1983) 36. Ernie Irvan (1994) 37. Tim Richmond (1986) 38. Buddy Baker (1975) 39. Neil Bonnett (1981) 40. Dale Jarrett (1999) 41. Kyle Busch (2008) 42. Fonty Flock (1951) 43. Jim Paschal (1955) 44. Kurt Busch (2013) 45. Speedy Thompson (1956) 46. Dick Hutcherson (1965) 47. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969) 48. Billy Wade (1964) 49. Jack Smith (1962) 50. Brad Keselowski (2012) 51. Donnie Allison (1970) 52. Carl Edwards (2008) 53. Darel Dieringer (1964) 54. James Hylton (1970) 55. Elmo Langley (1969) 56. Jeff Burton (2000) 57. Hershel McGriff (1954) 58. Marshall Teague (1951) 59. Marvin Panch (1957) 60. Paul Goldsmith (1957) 61. Dick Rathmann (1954) 62. Wendell Scott (1964) 63. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) 64. Jim Reed (1958) 65. Charlie Glotzbach (1968) 66. Cotton Owens (1961) 67. Tiny Lund (1965) 68. Greg Biffle (2005) 69. John Sears (1967) 70. Sterling Marlin (1995) 71. Neil Castles (1969) 72. Red Byron (1949) 73. Bob Welborn (1958) 74. Glen Wood (1960) 75. Pete Hamilton (1970) As a result of putting Biffle at 68th (which will also knock him out of the hypothetical LCQ), Bobby Hamilton was bumped off. 1348. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 5:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In your list on the Dover race page, you picked 1964 for Jarrett because "he was similarly dominant with much more competition even if he didn't win the title"." Okay. See, I can be a hypocrite and not even agree with myself! Okay, I'll let 1964 stand for those reasons. Obviously it's debatable if I can come to two totally different conclusions a couple months apart. You and murb sure you want to leave Kahne off as well? I can certainly understand why someone WOULD leave Kahne off, but I think he just barely qualifies. I honestly can't see the argument for Sears or Castles at all, especially over Byron. 1349. David posted: 12.17.2013 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "which will also knock him out of the hypothetical LCQ" Bad word choice there. I should say "which will exempt him [Biffle] from running in the hypothetical LCQ". Hamilton would still be in the race since he made murb's list. 1350. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 5:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) At least nobody's attempted to argue for Ryan Newman and Clint Bowyer deserving a top 75 position yet...although considering some of the names we all listed, I could definitely see someone making an argument for them. 1351. David posted: 12.17.2013 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You and murb sure you want to leave Kahne off as well?" AGGH!! Stop making this miserable for me, Sean!! ;) I think I'll leave him off for now, for two reasons: 1. Kahne seems to be inconsistent from year to year. He's only made the Chase four times (and the only time he made it in back-to-back seasons was driving for Hendrick). 2. It won't make any difference unless murb puts him on his list (and even then, others may post lists and leave Kahne off). 1352. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.17.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR rule changes for 2014: "Changes to the package include statically setting the race car ride height and eliminating the pre- and post-race front height rules and inspections. Additionally, the 2014 package includes a square leading edge on the splitter, side skirt and rear fascia adjustments and an eight-inch rear spoiler. Finally, a 43-inch by 13-inch radiator pan will round out changes for 2014." 1. I'm glad they shorten the spoiler (i just wish they would use a bigger one for plate tracks). 2. No more ride height, good. Perhaps we can see light under the cars from now on. BTW the spoiler used too be 9 inchs, now it is 8 inches tall. Well at tracks like MIS, ACS and BY drafting will play a slightly less important role. But a smaller spoiler means more air on the nose of the car behond you. 1353. murb posted: 12.17.2013 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I left Kahne off mainly for the same reasons that David did. I also wanted to have a nice balance of new and old drivers, and I think he is definitely the weakest link when looking at Johnson Era drivers (Denny, Kyle, Carl, and Keselowski are all way better than him). Also, just to clarify some of my other choices that might seem head scratching... Jamie McMurray - I have him on there because of his "Crown Jewel" prowess. He's one of only a handful of drivers to win the Daytona 500 and the Brickyard 400 in the same year, so I think that makes him worthy enough of being on the list. Dave Marcis - Longevity. Bobby Hamilton - I've always seen him as one of the most underrated drivers of all time. He revived Petty Enterprises there briefly for a couple years and made them a pretty good team, he won for Morgan McClure after they were past their prime, and he's also one of only two drivers to win for Andy Petree's mediocre team (and the other was Joe Nemechek, who is another underrated driver that I was considering for the list). Ken Schrader - Longevity. Kyle Petty - Like Hamilton, I think he's one of the most underrated drivers in Cup history. Yeah, he rode around for his final years, but I feel like he deserves to be on since he won all of his races (all at difficult places like The Rock and Pocono) in what most of us agree is the most stacked era ever. Morgan Shepherd and Hershel McGriff - Longevity for both of them. Shepherd is now the oldest driver to start a Cup race, and also was a pretty good driver back with the Wood Brothers. And McGriff ran his first Cup race in 1950 and his last in 1993, so to me that type of longevity easily qualifies for the list. So yeah, those are some of my choices that might have seemed a bit different or whatever. For the rest of the list I basically just went by career wins and tried to have the best balance of pioneers, heyday Winston Cup drivers (1972-2003), and "Johnson Era" drivers (2004-present) as I could. But I really do think we should do the LCQs that Sean was talking about. That seems like the best way to get the final spots nailed down. 1354. murb posted: 12.17.2013 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually, I guess McGriff isn't that head scratching since both of you guys had him too. 1355. David posted: 12.17.2013 - 7:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I honestly can't see the argument for Sears or Castles at all, especially over Byron." This argument is irrelevant anyway--since Byron made all three lists and Sears and Castles only made mine--but Sears and Castles both have two top-five points finishes each, whereas Byron only has one, and it came in the shortest season in Cup history by far. You can only take the career length argument so far (which is one of the reasons why I excluded interlopers like Gurney). If a driver wins all of his career starts (hello Marvin Burke), but only runs three races, does he deserve to be in a top 75 list? That might be an extreme example, but is my point made? 1356. murb posted: 12.17.2013 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, Biffle. That's who I forgot to talk about on my clarification post. I have him on my list because while he is Nascar's Invisible Man at this stage in his career, there was a point when he was arguably a top 5-7 driver in Cup (2005-2008). He's also legitimately contended for a championship (2005), and was also the third wheel for a while in the 2008 championship battle with Jimmie and Carl. So because of his overall consistency and his two top three points finishes, he's in on my list, especially when you compare him to some of his contemporaries (Kahne, Newman, etc) who haven't even sniffed championship contention in their careers. 1357. David posted: 12.17.2013 - 8:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I do have a question for The Sound: what kind of points system will you be using in your simulation? The Latford system, just for old time's sake, or something completely different? 1358. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I left Kahne off mainly for the same reasons that David did. I also wanted to have a nice balance of new and old drivers, and I think he is definitely the weakest link when looking at Johnson Era drivers (Denny, Kyle, Carl, and Keselowski are all way better than him)." I won't argue it too strongly (I only put him at #72) but I think he passes the cut line because of the number of wins he has and the diversity of the tracks he has won on, and that very few of his wins were flukish (as opposed to Newman or Harvick who win in flukes all the time). He did do good stuff in the latter years of the #9 team as well as the Red Bull #4, but I'll admit he's kind of fizzled out at Hendrick, where he's still won 4 races in 2 years, better than the 4 races in 9 years Schrader had, whom you did list. Yeah, Hendrick wasn't AS strong and the field was deeper, but that's not enough to justify listing people like Schrader (and most of the other people you listed with similar win totals) over Kahne. "Jamie McMurray - I have him on there because of his "Crown Jewel" prowess. He's one of only a handful of drivers to win the Daytona 500 and the Brickyard 400 in the same year, so I think that makes him worthy enough of being on the list." Nah, just nah. I like him. Good driver, but he hasn't had a top 10 points finish, he dominates even less frequently than he wins, he wins on too few tracks, etc... He's like a less consistent Bowyer. While I did weigh crown jewel wins more heavily in past eras, it's not enough in this one, especially with the likes of Bayne, Smith, Reutimann, Mears, Menard, etc... winning the marquee races in recent years. "Dave Marcis - Longevity. Ken Schrader - Longevity." Nah. To me longevity doesn't mean much of anything if you don't do anything. In fact, I wouldn't say either of them had longevity at all. Longevity is being RELEVANT over a long period. Ricky Rudd had longevity. Marcis was only relevant as a major race factor from 1975-78 (maybe you could push it to 1982, when he got a fluky win as an owner-driver). That's not really significant longevity. Great personality, but I'm not seeing it. If he'd gotten all five wins as an owner-driver, I'd probably go for it, but his first four were for Nord Krauskopf, one of the day's powerhouse owners. No. In terms of leading laps, you could say Schrader was relevant from 1987-1995 (when only in 1992, the year GM stunk, did he lead fewer than 100 laps) but still, considering all 4 of his wins were in a 3 year period followed by 5.5 seasons of never winning at Hendrick, that does not look good. Especially 1995 and 1996 considering Gordon and Labonte's dominance those years. "Bobby Hamilton - I've always seen him as one of the most underrated drivers of all time. He revived Petty Enterprises there briefly for a couple years and made them a pretty good team, he won for Morgan McClure after they were past their prime, and he's also one of only two drivers to win for Andy Petree's mediocre team (and the other was Joe Nemechek, who is another underrated driver that I was considering for the list). Kyle Petty - Like Hamilton, I think he's one of the most underrated drivers in Cup history. Yeah, he rode around for his final years, but I feel like he deserves to be on since he won all of his races (all at difficult places like The Rock and Pocono) in what most of us agree is the most stacked era ever. Ward Burton Morgan Shepherd and Hershel McGriff - Longevity for both of them. Shepherd is now the oldest driver to start a Cup race, and also was a pretty good driver back with the Wood Brothers. And McGriff ran his first Cup race in 1950 and his last in 1993, so to me that type of longevity easily qualifies for the list." Better argument for all of these drivers. For drivers with the number of wins they had in that era, Hamilton and Ward Burton had to have on average among the worst equipment, and they had an interesting diversity with regard to the tracks they won at. Many people say Martinsville and Darlington are two of the hardest tracks, and Hamilton was a Martinsville master and Ward was a Darlington master (albeit briefly for both of them). Neither had much longevity in my book but they did do great stuff for the rides they had fighting against the powerhouse juggernaut teams. I'll buy Hamilton, Ward, and Petty on a list, but their winning percentage is a bit too low for me to pick them myself. I mainly picked McGriff for his dominance in the one series he had and then extrapolated based on what he did in his Cup one-offs plus what he did in Winston West in future seasons. I allowed myself to include the context of a driver's entire career even if most of it was outside of Cup to a degree. That's why I have McGriff, Elder, Andretti, Foyt, and Gurney. They showed greatness in relatively few Cup starts while dominating elsewhere. I required that drivers have Cup wins before listing them, so no Ralph Earnhardt, Red Farmer, Jack Ingram, etc..., but longevity means nothing to me if a driver hardly ever wins or contends. I'd totally take somebody like Foyt and Gurney with comparable/greater win totals to some of the drivers you listed in many fewer starts. In Andretti's case, the Daytona 500 was a big deal then and bigger than today and it reflected talent better, especially because the fields were deeper in the marquee races at that point, so they mattered more (much like the 24 Hours of Le Mans, 24 Hours of Daytona, and Indy 500 STILL matter more than the other races on the respective series schedules in part because they have deeper fields...) Perhaps I should have listed Pete Hamilton too for similar reasons, but I decided not to because I think if Andretti had been full-time in Cup he would have waxed Hamilton. Andretti hardly specialized in one form of racing or another, while Hamilton didn't seem to be extraordinarily competitive outside the superspeedways with the dominant Plymouth SuperBird. 1359. Sean posted: 12.17.2013 - 8:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This argument is irrelevant anyway--since Byron made all three lists and Sears and Castles only made mine--but Sears and Castles both have two top-five points finishes each, whereas Byron only has one" Points finishes mean very little to me in any era because of how little they actually reflect performance (dominance, winning, running up front, on-track passes for the lead, etc...) considering they have always been way too consistency-biased. While I will give championships a little weight, I'd hardly list somebody *just* for some top 5 points finishes if they weren't winning. You can only speculate what a driver like Sears or Castles would have done in factory rides. Just because they finished a lap or two down a few times means they would have won 20-30 races in better cars? They got all their top 5/top 10 finishes and top 10 points finishes especially in an era when very few drivers BESIDES THEM and very few RELEVANT drivers at all ran the entire schedule. The other relevant drivers were usually part-timers who targeted the rich races ignoring the short tracks/dirt tracks and were therefore MUCH lower in points given NASCAR's extreme consistency bias (which was even worse in past decades). I certainly DID give the independents/privateers consideration. I listed Hylton, Langley, and Scott, but I think you actually need to win in a bad ride to belong on a list this exclusive. I guess I view drivers like Sears and Castles the same way I view drivers like Rick Mast and Hut Stricklin. Good drivers who probably would have won had they been given anything good to drive at the right time, but not people who would have ever lit it up in any ride. Mast and Stricklin just happened to be competing against 20 better funded cars while Sears and Castles were usually competing against 3 or 4 at most, in an era with less reliability. I'd hardly list Mast or Stricklin either. But I DID list Hylton, Langley, and Scott because they did win, and came very close to listing Bobby Hamilton myself for similar reasons. "You can only take the career length argument so far (which is one of the reasons why I excluded interlopers like Gurney). If a driver wins all of his career starts (hello Marvin Burke), but only runs three races, does he deserve to be in a top 75 list?" Yes, Gurney deserves to be on a list with 5 wins in 16 starts, ditto Elder, Foyt (who's actually more complicated because of how many years he ran around doing nothing at the end there), especially over guys with comparable win totals in TONS more starts like Kyle Petty, Ken Schrader, Morgan Shepherd, etc... 5 wins in 16 starts > 4 wins in 763 starts. I don't see how this is debatable. With Gurney winning in one-offs and Schrader NOT winning most seasons for Hendrick when he had full-time stability, it separates them far more. No, I would not even contemplate listing Marvin Burke, because there was nothing else to his career than that. With Andretti, Foyt, Gurney, and Elder we can easily speculate what they would have done based on what they did elsewhere (in an era when crossovers could actually be successful, unlike lately. No, while I'd probably put Montoya on an overall list of the top 75 drivers in motorsports history combining all series, his Cup career is obviously his biggest blemish and I would make no argument for him... But back in the '60s, such crossovers truly were meaningful, as those drivers could drive anything without specializing.) When you have stability in a top-tier ride, you need to have results. With Shepherd, Ward, and Hamilton you can say they didn't have stable top-tier rides. I don't think you can say that for Schrader, even if he was there for Hendrick's four-year nadir (1990-93) which wasn't THAT bad considering Rudd finished 2nd in points in 1991 and led all the Chevies in 1992... So Schrader was the problem. I don't mean to insult him - awesome guy - but for some reason, he underperformed. "Oh, Biffle. That's who I forgot to talk about on my clarification post. I have him on my list because while he is Nascar's Invisible Man at this stage in his career, there was a point when he was arguably a top 5-7 driver in Cup (2005-2008). He's also legitimately contended for a championship (2005), and was also the third wheel for a while in the 2008 championship battle with Jimmie and Carl. So because of his overall consistency and his two top three points finishes, he's in on my list, especially when you compare him to some of his contemporaries (Kahne, Newman, etc) who haven't even sniffed championship contention in their careers." Yeah, Biffle over Kahne and Newman, but I do think Biffle and Kahne are close because Kahne is more diverse and does seem to do better when he has bad cars (admittedly Biffle seems to do better than Kahne when he has good cars). 1360. David posted: 12.17.2013 - 9:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The main thing about my list is that I tend to not pay too much attention to wins, unless there are a lot of them. And I favored drivers who ran full seasons, just because of the ultimate purpose of the list. After reading your posts, I'll once again revise my list and put Gurney, Foyt, and Elder on. But I'm leaving Sears just for the sake of variety. We can't agree on everything now, can we? :) NR2003 60. A.J. Foyt (1972) 61. Paul Goldsmith (1957) 62. Dick Rathmann (1954) 63. Wendell Scott (1964) 64. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) 65. Jim Reed (1958) 66. Charlie Glotzbach (1968) 67. Cotton Owens (1961) 68. Dan Gurney (1963) 69. Ray Elder (1972) 70. Tiny Lund (1965) 71. Greg Biffle (2005) 72. John Sears (1967) 73. Sterling Marlin (1995) 74. Red Byron (1949) 75. Bob Welborn (1958) Drivers eliminated: Pete Hamilton (superspeedway ace, but three of his four wins came for Petty Enterprises) Neil Castles Glen Wood This would kick Hamilton and Castles from the LCQ. Glen Wood is still on murb's list. 1361. The Sound posted: 12.17.2013 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks for the list, Sean! That makes three. I would ideally like a couple more if possible, but I'm grateful for the pool we do have. I like the idea for a LCQ race. How does Darlington sound? I think it would be the best choice. Superspeedways are too random, road courses too specific, and in this game, short tracks can be insane from an attrition standpoint. Races at Bristol routinely leave less than half the field running. Nothing some AI tweaks can't fix, but I think Darlington would be a great choice. Hopefully nobody leaves off a driver like Johnson out of spite in the remote chance he wrecks out in the LCQ. :) I plan to use the 2007 Latford points system, though I could tweak it to allow more points for a win. No Chase, can we agree on that? As for tracks, I like a 36-race schedule, with 24 tracks. Half the tracks would have multiple dates. In general, I'd like the most significant tracks in NASCAR history. Thus Kentucky would not qualify. We could also do fantasy tracks for a couple practice races. What in-game mod should I use for the sim? I was considering the Gen6BR mod, but we could also use the default Cup mod, COT mod, Cup90 mod, or AeroWar88 mod. Not much is available before that. I maintain a presence on a NR2003 forum, and I can request some of the painters to paint the needed cars for the sim. 1362. murb posted: 12.17.2013 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Alright, Sean, I understand your arguments against me on Schrader and some of my other "longevity" drivers, but I'll disagree with you on McMurray. I think the fact that he has never had a top ten points finish is really deceiving of how he's actually performed, so I'm not gonna use that against him. In 2004, he had more top tens than the champion did, in 2005 he would have made the top ten Chase if he hadn't been wrecked by Tony Raines (I think it was Raines) at Richmond, and in 2010 he had a good enough season that it caused them to completely change the rules on getting into the Chase. I don't know, I just think McMurray at least deserves to be in the LCQ. 1363. David posted: 12.17.2013 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Thanks for the list, Sean! That makes three. I would ideally like a couple more if possible, but I'm grateful for the pool we do have." Just make sure you're keeping up with the changes to the lists, particularly mine. "I like the idea for a LCQ race. How does Darlington sound?" Perfect. It's a track that pretty much every driver on each of our lists has raced on. "Hopefully nobody leaves off a driver like Johnson out of spite in the remote chance he wrecks out in the LCQ. :)" Wait, you're hoping against this? :) "I plan to use the 2007 Latford points system, though I could tweak it to allow more points for a win." Maybe 200 for a win? Even though it has never been used in NASCAR, I would have considered the Formula One system, considering that not every driver will qualify for every race (unless you plan to have 75 drivers on the track in each). In this kind of situation, the Latford system may award too many points for just qualifying for the race,. "No Chase, can we agree on that?" Um, duh? ;) "As for tracks, I like a 36-race schedule, with 24 tracks. Half the tracks would have multiple dates. In general, I'd like the most significant tracks in NASCAR history. Thus Kentucky would not qualify. We could also do fantasy tracks for a couple practice races." Daytona International Speedway (x2) Martinsville Speedway (x2) Richmond International Raceway (x2) Darlington Raceway (x2) Charlotte Motor Speedway (x2) Atlanta Motor Speedway (x2) Bristol Motor Speedway (x2) North Wilkesboro Speedway (x2) Michigan International Speedway (x2) Riverside International Raceway (x2) Talladega Superspeedway (x2) Fairground Speedway Nashville (a.k.a. Music City Motorplex, formerly Nashville Speedway) (x2) Dover International Speedway Rockingham Speedway Pocono Raceway Hickory Motor Speedway Asheville-Weaverville Speedway Watkins Glen International Bowman Gray Stadium Greenville-Pickens Speedway Sonoma Raceway Indianapolis Motor Speedway Langhorne Speedway Daytona Beach & Road Course (I added this one for obvious reasons) Alternates: Charlotte Speedway (I also added this one because it was the very first Cup venue) Columbia Speedway Any other suggestions? 1364. murb posted: 12.18.2013 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What in-game mod should I use for the sim? I was considering the Gen6BR mod, but we could also use the default Cup mod, COT mod, Cup90 mod, or AeroWar88 mod." I guess if it were up to me I would go with either Cup90 or the default Cup mod (which I'm assuming is just the pre-COT Cup car). But overall I think any of those would do (though the COT would be on the bottom of my list). And as for tracks, David's schedule looks pretty good. If we're trying to put together a schedule of the most significant tracks in Nascar history, then his list pretty much has all of them. 1365. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.18.2013 - 6:10 am Rate this comment: (5) (1) I will make a list... when I have a working computer... 1366. David posted: 12.18.2013 - 7:30 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I literally JUST discovered this by accident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ThOnsOJzM8 1367. We need more Onion posted: 12.18.2013 - 8:49 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) David, that is a f*ckin' amazing video! Great find. 1368. jabber1990 posted: 12.18.2013 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) did BS1 just compare Kyle Busch to Dale Earnhardt? and Kyle Busch to Cale Yarborogh? 1369. David posted: 12.18.2013 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "did BS1 just compare Kyle Busch to Dale Earnhardt?" The fan who replied to this tweet must think that that would be an insult to the former. I think DSFF would spontaneously combust if he read it: https://twitter.com/NASCARCountryUS/status/411232880300679169 "David, that is a f*ckin' amazing video! Great find." Thanks! I was actually looking up the Boston song, "Foreplay/Long Time", and read that it was the background music to that commercial. 1370. joey2448 posted: 12.18.2013 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David, I totally remember that commercial back then! That was my favorite! In fact, every time I hear that song by Boston, I think of those images of all the greatest stock car drivers racing each other! And yes, jabber, they compared Kyle Busch to Dale Earnhardt. To me, Earnhardt and Busch are similar in their driving styles on the track, but off track they certainly ain't the same! 1371. TS1420 posted: 12.18.2013 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "David, I totally remember that commercial back then! That was my favorite! In fact, every time I hear that song by Boston, I think of those images of all the greatest stock car drivers racing each other!" I was getting ready to post the same exact thing as you, joey2448. Excellent commercial, showing off the present while respecting the past. Unlike BSPN's "Jimmie Johnson Is Better Than All Other Legends Past, Present & Future" propaganda commercials they aired for the chase this year. 1372. David posted: 12.18.2013 - 9:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "David, I totally remember that commercial back then! That was my favorite! In fact, every time I hear that song by Boston, I think of those images of all the greatest stock car drivers racing each other!" Even though I never saw the commercial live, it is definitely my favorite now without a doubt. 1373. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.19.2013 - 8:48 am Rate this comment: (4) (2) This list is in NO PARTICULAR ORDER. The top 10 or so are my real top-10. After that, I just typed them as I thought of them. 1. David Pearson (1973) 2. Richard Petty (1967) 3. Lee Petty (1954) 4. Tim Flock (1955) 5. Cale Yarborough (1977) 6. Herb Thomas (1953) 7. Bobby Allison (1971) 8. Dale Earnhardt (1987) 9. Darrell Waltrip (1981) 10. Jeff Gordon (1998) 11. Fireball Roberts (1958) 12. Ned Jarrett (1964) 12a. Bill Elliott (1985) 14. Fonty Flock (1951) 15. Jimmie Johnson (2009) 2013's more dominant, but it was a much weaker field 16. Fred Lorenzen (1963) 17. Bobby Isaac (1969) 18. Junior Johnson (1965) 19. Rex white (1960) 20. Rusty Wallace (1993) 21. Jim Paschal (1967) 22. Marvin Panch, a good friend of mine (1957) 23. Jack Smith (1961) 24. Benny Parsons (1977) 25. Tim Richmond (1986) 26. Speedy Thompson (1957) 27. Dick Hutcherson (1965) 28. Marshall Teague (1951) 29. Kyle Busch (2008) 30. Matt Kenseth (2006) 31. Carl Edwards (2008) 32. Davey Allison (1992) 33. Harry Gant (1991) 34. Donnie Allison (1971) 35. Billy Wade (1964) 36. Neil Bonnett (1981) 37. Ricky Rudd (1987) 38. Buddy Baker (1972) 39. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969) 40. Dick Rathmann (1953) 41. Paul Goldsmith (1957) 42. Bob Welborn (1958) 43. Cotton Owens (1961) 44. Dan Gurney (1965) 45. Jim Reed (1958) 46. Ernie Irvan (1993) 47. Geoffrey Bodine (1990) 48. Terry Labonte (1995) 49. Bobby Labonte (1999) 50. Jeff Burton (2000) 51. Kurt Busch (2005) 52. Eddie Pagan (1958) 53. Bill Blair (1950) 54. Frank Mundy (1951) 55. Glen Wood (1960) 56. Nelson Stacy (1962) 57. Gwyn Staley (1957) 58. Hershel McGriff (1954) 59. Bill Amick (1957) 60. Billy Myers (1957) 61. Jimmy Pardue (1964) 62. Bobby Hamilton (1998) 63. Bob Flock (1949) 64. Red Byron (1949) 65. Ralph Moody (1956) 66. Ray Elder (1971) 67. James Hylton (1967) 68. Richard Brooks (1977) 69. Wendell Scott (1963) 70. Elmo Langley (1969) 71. Frankie Schneider (1958) 72. Kyle Petty (1992) 73. Alan Kulwicki (1992) 74. Greg Biffle (2005) 75. A.J. Foyt I repeat: this list is in NO PARTICULAR ORDER. The top 10 or so are my real top-10. After that, I just typed them as I thought of them. 1374. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.19.2013 - 9:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I see my haters. have returned. I don't get it. That's why I am only posting those things that I think positively contribute the last few weeks. You don't have to like my list, but don't hate it just because it's MY list. In fact, I wrote that list the way I did because I didn't think 75 was a fair number and that there would have to be drivers left off so that other deserving drivers get on. After a certain point, the talent pool just levels off for any era. Yes, my computer is working again :) 1375. The Sound posted: 12.19.2013 - 10:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nico, thanks for the list! Will anyone come through for another list to bring the total to five? :) I just simulated the 400-miler at Rockingham with the final 2013 ratings, and Martin Truex Jr. beat out Dale Jr. for the win, followed by Kurt, Kyle, and Harvick. Only six cars finished on the lead lap. 1376. Sean posted: 12.19.2013 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) NRF: I don't hate your list but did you mean to leave Buck Baker, Joe Weatherly, Dale Jarrett, and Tony Stewart off? I presume your leaving Curtis Turner off was intentional because you've said you had no respect for him, and I presume you left Brad Keselowski off because he's had very little longevity at this point, but I can't really see a justification for leaving off those other four names (and I'm one of the site's biggest Jarrett critics, no less!) I mean you can't have a position 12a (which I found hilarious) without putting Weatherly in it, can you? 1377. Sean posted: 12.19.2013 - 11:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) You're also missing Mark Martin, Denny Hamlin, and Kevin Harvick, all of which I believe have earned a spot (though I can understand why you'd leave Hamlin or Harvick off). I'm assuming all your other omissions (Darel Dieringer, Sterling Marlin, Junior, Glotzbach, Kahne, etc...) you don't think are good enough, and I certainly don't see any of those as must-haves. I do see Buck, Weatherly, Jarrett, Stewart, Martin, and even Hamlin and Harvick as must-haves. 1378. The Sound posted: 12.19.2013 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Even though I'm not really qualified to produce a list of my own, I will reserve the right to exempt a driver from the LCQ. Tony Stewart, to me, is a Top 20 driver historically. While you may disagree, I believe the sim would not be complete without him. 1379. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.19.2013 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Buck Baker, Joe Weatherly, Dale Jarrett, Tony Stewart, Curtis Turner, Mark Martin, and Denny Hamlin were all forgotten. Harvick was the only one deliberately left off. It's hard to do a thorough list! I figured any drivers I forgot would be picked up anyway because I felt like guys like Billy Wade and James Hylton at least deserved a slot in the LCQ. 1380. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.19.2013 - 12:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Darel Dieringer, Sterling Marlin, Junior, Glotzbach, Kahne, and Newman were left off because I didn't think they were worthy enough, even with Darel getting 7 wins in the 60s. 1381. Sean posted: 12.19.2013 - 12:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David and I had already both listed Wade and Hylton. No worries there. 1382. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.19.2013 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Through all that, and getting interrupted three times, I was bound to forget people. Eh, at least we have several lists. Surprised no one cut my head off for daring to say Pearson in 1973 was the greatest of all time :) 1383. Sean posted: 12.19.2013 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I did too. 1384. We need more Onion posted: 12.19.2013 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm another one of those who are not knowledgeable enough to do a list, but here I am hoping that your NR2003 will produce more realistic results than mine. I mentioned my 'Wally 2000' season before, I was racing it and, well Robert Pressley just won at Dover... 1385. DB1995 posted: 12.19.2013 - 2:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) John Wes Townley moving from Red Horse to Richie Wauters, I question this move unless Red Horse told him he couldn't come back, because he is moving to a much worse team, one who just this season suspended operations with a driver like John Wes who brought a sponsor in Tim George Jr. so nothing would tell me they couldn't do that again next season, but I am 99% certain Red Horse will not shut down next season. 1386. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.19.2013 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) For some drivers, like Billy Wade and Tim Flock, it's easy to decide a "best season." For others, like Dick Rathmann and Terry Labonte, it's not so easy. 1387. Spen posted: 12.19.2013 - 8:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Could someone (probably David) remind me of where I posted my old top 189 list? I'd like to contribute to this, but I don't feel like starting from scratch. 1388. Sean posted: 12.19.2013 - 11:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen: 2012 Ford EcoBoost 400 thread - posts 1484 and 1502 1389. David posted: 12.19.2013 - 11:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spen, it was on last year's Ford 400 comment page, posts #1484 (1-25) and #1502. And there were actually 191 drivers on the list. To date, you're the only one to have someone other than Petty, Pearson, or Earnhardt as #1 when you listed Bobby Allison at the top. 1390. The Sound posted: 12.20.2013 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Top 191? Why not 200 at that point? Ha. 1391. David posted: 12.20.2013 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Top 191? Why not 200 at that point? Ha." He listed every driver with at least 100 starts at the time. 1392. The Long Shot posted: 12.20.2013 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (3) (0) I'll give it a try, but don't expect this list to be worth much at all. In no particular order after about 10th: 1. Richard Petty (1967) 2. Dale Earnhardt (1987) 3. David Pearson (1969) 4. Jeff Gordon (1998) 5. Jimmie Johnson (2007) 6. Bobby Allison (1971) 7. Darrell Waltrip (1981) 8. Cale Yarborough (1978) 9. Herb Thomas (1953) 10. Lee Petty (1959) 11. Joe Weatherly (1962) 12. Tim Flock (1955) 13. Fireball Roberts (1957) 14. Dale Jarrett (1997) 15. Buck Baker (1956) 16. Fred Lorenzen (1963) 17. Bill Elliott (1985) 18. Ricky Rudd (2001) 19. Mark Martin (1998) 20. Ned Jarrett (1964) 21. Tony Stewart (2005) 22. Benny Parsons (1977) 23. Junior Johnson (1961) 24. Marvin Panch (1957) 25. Bobby Isaac (1969) 26. Rusty Wallace (1993) 27. Davey Allison (1992) 28. Matt Kenseth (2013) 29. Kurt Busch (2004) 30. Terry Labonte (1996) 31. Rex White (1962) 32. Jim Paschal (1956) 33. Jack Smith (1962) 34. Neil Bonnett (1985) 35. Geoffrey Bodine (1990) 36. Buddy Baker (1975) 37. James Hylton (1969) 38. Curtis Turner (1950) 39. Bobby Labonte (2000) 40. Kyle Busch (2008) 41. Carl Edwards (2008) 42. Alan Kulwicki (1992) 43. Jeff Burton (1999) 44. Dave Marcis (1978) 45. Sterling Marlin (1995) 46. Kevin Harvick (2006) 47. Kyle Petty (1992) 48. Elmo Langley (1969) 49. Greg Biffle (2005) 50. Ernie Irvan (1994) 51. Harry Gant (1984) 52. Dale Earnhardt Jr. (2004) 53. Donnie Allison (1970) 54. Speedy Thompson (1956) 55. LeeRoy Yarbrough (1969) 56. Fonty Flock (1951) 57. Dick Rathman (1953) 58. Tim Richmond (1986) 59. Denny Hamlin (2010) 60. Dick Hutcherson (1965) 61. Marshall Teague (1951) 62. Dan Gurney (1963) 63. A.J. Foyt (1972) 64. Tiny Lund (1965) 65. Ryan Newman (2003) 66. Paul Goldsmith (1957) 67. Cotton Owens (1961) 68. Bob Welborn (1955) 69. Darel Dieringer (1965) 70. Pete Hamilton (1970) 71. Nelson Stacy (1962) 72. Ken Schrader (1991) 73. Wendell Scott (1964) 74. Mario Andretti (1967) 75. Bob Flock (1949) 1393. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.20.2013 - 11:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) The thing most interesting about the lists is not the drivers, but rather the years chosen for the common drivers. 1394. Ched Little posted: 12.21.2013 - 9:05 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) 1365, 1373, 1374, 1379, 1380, 1382, 1386, 1393... someone went through and thumbs-downed all these comments, some of them twice, just because they were written by NRF. Now NRF can be a whiny bitch, but this screams hatred and fear. Only reason to do this would be if you got squashed every time you had a civil discussion with the kid. You did it, kid! You have your own personal troll! You said something that infuriated somebody so bad while pleasing the rest of us that this is the best they can do! 1395. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.21.2013 - 9:56 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) The Sound, any idea when you will start simulating? 1396. The NSA Knows Everything posted: 12.21.2013 - 10:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Admit it "Ched Little", you ARE "NicoRosbergFan" under a different name. And I'll bet you thumb-down your own comments too. 1397. startandparkfan posted: 12.21.2013 - 12:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Doing some research and I found this- John Wes Townley is also knows as John Wrecks Weekly. I was looking to see if he deserved this nickname. I found that out of 132 races in the Nationwide, Camping World Trucks, K&N Pro East, ARCA, and X-1R Pro Cup series, he DNFed due to crashes in 21%, or 28 races. He probably had more spins and cautions, but I didn't feel like going over every race. 1398. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.21.2013 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^That, dear friends, is why we call him John Wrecks Weekly, however that percentage was much higher before this year, so he is improving, but much like drivers like Dave Marcis, Tiny Lund, and Ricky Craven, he is taking a while to come into his own. Who's to say he won't possibly someday even still be able to win a Daytona 500 or a Coke 600? 1399. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.21.2013 - 12:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Admit it "Ched Little", you ARE "NicoRosbergFan" under a different name. And I'll bet you thumb-down your own comments too. " That dear friends, is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard of. The fact that you post under a fake name is the greatest evidence. My evidence is this: you can't thumbs-down or up your own post because this site operates on an IP address basis. 1400. Eric posted: 12.21.2013 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Poster 1396, Ched Little can't be NicoRosbergFan for multiple reasons. 1.) People aren't allowed to thumb down your own comments and that means NicoRosenbergFan can't thumbdown his own posts. 2.) Ched Little is someone else s account and has done trollish behavior on this site before like his comment on the day of the 50th anniversary of JFK was assassinated in Dallas. It is possible that Ched himself gave thumbs down to those posts he mentioned. 1401. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.21.2013 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) World of Outlaws sprint car legend Steve Kinser will retire at the end of the 2014 season. 1402. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.21.2013 - 1:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Steve's going to be 60 next year and he's still one of the best in the sport. Good for him. Enjoy retirement and watching the younger ones continue the legacy. 1403. DavidDSFFcjsLongShotmurbChedRosbergFan posted: 12.21.2013 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Since we're all apparently making a mockery of this site, embarrassing the webmaster, and acting like total assholes, I suppose I might as well join the fun. Seriously, I've had it with these immature spats that seem to come weekly on here. You wonder why people like Paul, whose insights and takes I enjoy immensely, don't post on here much anymore? There's your reason. I don't give a damn about who started what or why; I just want this to end. Using the poor NASCAR season as an excuse won't work anymore. Most of us have moved on with our lives, and if some of you can't, then that's your problem. I'm not calling out anybody in particular here (since it looks like several people got involved in this particular discussion), but please, for the sake of the site and of its members, let's cool it with the arguments (especially these idiotic ones concerning the ratings system) before we lose some of our best posters. 1404. The Long Shot posted: 12.21.2013 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @1397/1398: I seem to remember compiling similar statistics about Townley several months ago (although I counted every single caution that he was a part of). I'd re-post them, but I have no idea where I posted them in the first place. 1405. Anonymous posted: 12.21.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Since we're all apparently making a mockery of this site, embarrassing the webmaster, and acting like total assholes, I suppose I might as well join the fun. Seriously, I've had it with these immature spats that seem to come weekly on here. You wonder why people like Paul, whose insights and takes I enjoy immensely, don't post on here much anymore? There's your reason. I don't give a damn about who started what or why; I just want this to end. Using the poor NASCAR season as an excuse won't work anymore. Most of us have moved on with our lives, and if some of you can't, then that's your problem. I'm not calling out anybody in particular here (since it looks like several people got involved in this particular discussion), but please, for the sake of the site and of its members, let's cool it with the arguments (especially these idiotic ones concerning the ratings system) before we lose some of our best posters. " Keep David out of this! 1406. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.21.2013 - 5:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "World of Outlaws sprint car legend Steve Kinser will retire at the end of the 2014 season." The moment he retires they should put him in the International Motorsports Hall Of Fame. (if he isn't all ready) Post #1403 Some of the best posters hardly post on here anymore. Once racing season comes around, my time here will be done. 1407. murb posted: 12.21.2013 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Really? Really? Okay, here we go again for the 9 millionth time this year. Look, I personally could care less if someone decides to thumbs down my comment. But if it is that big of a deal to others, and if it is gonna cause the same idiotic argument over and over again along with a bunch of dumb detective playing, then I would like to request to our fantastic Webmaster that we just get rid of the rating system. It was a nice thought in the beginning, but it has just caused nothing but problems and has only enhanced unnecessary personal vendettas that some people have on here against others. I just think that is the way to go. I WANT bickering on here, but I want it to be respectful and be about important topics, not about stuff that doesn't matter. So that's my proposal. We are the best racing related board on the internet, so let's just put the "Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down" era of Racing Reference out of it's misery, because it is causing nothing but eyesores for everyone. Hopefully Webmaster will take this into consideration, and hopefully we will all soon be back to focusing on fun and positive things (The Sound's sim!!! - can't wait to get that started). 1408. The Long Shot posted: 12.21.2013 - 10:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As always, cooler heads prevail, and murb has one of the coolest heads on the board. As I've said before, I'm fully in support of removing the thumbs-up/thumbs-down feature on this board if it causes this much trouble between people. And also, I would like to extend my sincere apologies to webmaster for all this nonsense that has been going on throughout this past season. We all truly appreciate what you have done for us with this website, and frankly, it's terrible of us to repay you for this service by acting so immaturely. I am truly sorry, and hopefully, with the upcoming season less than 2 months away, we can all, as the saying goes, "start over with a clean slate". Thanks again for all you do. 1409. Eric posted: 12.21.2013 - 10:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, My issue isn't the thumbs down. All I was trying to do was correct post 1396 with the poster not being regular on the boards. Ched Little has been doing stuff that is trying to get people wild up to top it off. Ched Little on post 601 typed "Nana nana... nana nana... hey hey hey... goodbye!" as response to the 50th anniversary of JFK's assassination as way to show JFK being killed in Dallas was a great thing to happen and that showed what type of a troll Ched Little is. You than have post 1394. The fact is this racing board is so easy to create a troll like Ched Little or any other troll for that matter. 1410. David posted: 12.21.2013 - 11:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Keep David out of this!" Apparently I have a secret admirer. Haha. But I'll be the first to admit I've said some beyond idiotic things in the past. I'm sure we all have (except Spen, he's the wise old man of the board), but it's only when we get into stupid childish arguments is when we lose integrity as posters. Removing the thumbs-up/thumbs-down feature will probably help, but we should be above getting upset over getting thumbed-down in the first place. And I can't wait until Daytona!!! 1411. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.22.2013 - 3:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) 1405 was me, but I failed to enter a name. 1412. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.22.2013 - 8:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) My favorite Christmas carols/Advent Songs: 1. O Come, O Come, Emmanuel 2. What Child Is This? 3. Watchman, Tell Us of the Night 4. Angels We Have Heard on High 5. O Holy Night 6. Angels from the Realm of Glory 7. The First Noel 8. Venite Adoremus Dominum 9. It Came upon a Midnight Clear 10. Sleigh Ride last. Do You Hear What I Hear? (first person to list it DIES!) 1413. The Sound posted: 12.22.2013 - 9:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I plan to start the sim early in January. I hope to finish it before the start of Speedweeks, as by then we will all have more important matters to focus on. The main obstacle to the sim will be painting cars. For example, if I use the Gen6BR sim, drivers like Bobby Allison may not have been painted for that mod. Also, some drivers share numbers, and I would need to decide who gets to keep which number. #11, for example. Unfortunately, I have no talent at painting in that game, so I need to scour some message boards to seek assistance. Either that, or I make some very basic paint schemes myself, which will undoubtedly look atrocious. 1414. The Sound posted: 12.22.2013 - 10:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just found a #43 STP retro Dodge Charger for the Gen6BR mod. Then again, I figured Petty would be an easier one to find. 1415. The Sound posted: 12.22.2013 - 10:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, just found an epic Bobby Allison '88 Miller High Life paint for Gen6BR. Then again, I should probably look for paints in the year I'll be using the ratings. I'll stop posting about my paint scheme finds for now. 1416. The Sound posted: 12.22.2013 - 11:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is the list of drivers that, as of 5 lists, are unanimous across every list. I included the drivers that Nico indicated he had overlooked on his list, such as Tony Stewart and Mark Martin. My inclination for the LCQ is to include every driver that has been named for over 50% of the lists, but not unanimously. Clinched Berths (52 drivers) Richard Petty Dale Earnhardt Jeff Gordon Jimmie Johnson David Pearson Bobby Allison Cale Yarborough Darrell Waltrip Herb Thomas Bobby Isaac Bill Elliott Junior Johnson Terry Labonte Fred Lorenzen Fireball Roberts Rex White Tim Flock Bobby Labonte Alan Kulwicki Benny Parsons Harry Gant Geoff Bodine Davey Allison Ricky Rudd Ernie Irvin Tim Richmond Buddy Baker Neil Bonnett Kyle Busch Jim Paschal Kurt Busch Speedy Thompson Dick Hutcherson LeeRoy Yarbrough Jack Smith Donnie Allison Carl Edwards Jeff Burton Marshall Teague Marvin Panch Paul Goldsmith Dick Rathmann Wendell Scott Cotton Owens Bob Welborn Mark Martin Denny Hamlin Curtis Turner Joe Weatherly Dale Jarrett Buck Baker Tony Stewart 1417. David posted: 12.22.2013 - 12:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This is the list of drivers that, as of 5 lists, are unanimous across every list." I understand that Spen may be coming out with a list soon, so just be aware that there could be another one coming. "Clinched Berths (52 drivers)" Wow. 23 spots at stake. "My inclination for the LCQ is to include every driver that has been named for over 50% of the lists, but not unanimously." Actually, for the sake of competition in the LCQ, I'd use any driver who made at least two lists. I'm not sure there's even 23 drivers who have made 50% of the lists. 1418. pimmy posted: 12.22.2013 - 12:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is it crucial to have cars painted, since you can't post images on here? Unless you're going to post links to race reports containing pictures, it would seem a bit redundant painting all of those cars. Just saying. I've also replicated some Cup seasons in NR2003 in the past. I did from 1980 to mid-way through 1984 until my computer went up the creek. Here are the results: 1980: Race - Winner Riverside - Darrell Waltrip Busch Clash - Bobby Allison Daytona Qualifier 1 - Benny Parsons Daytona Qualifier 2 - Neil Bonnett Daytona 500 - Cale Yarborough Richmond - Dale Earnhardt Rockingham - Cale Yarborough Atlanta - Darrell Waltrip Bristol - Dale Earnhardt Darlington - Richard Petty North Wilkesboro - Benny Parsons Martinsville - Richard Petty Talladega - David Pearson Nashville - Benny Parsons Dover - Dale Earnhardt Charlotte - Donnie Allison College Station - Benny Parsons Riverside - Darrell Waltrip Michigan - David Pearson Daytona - Benny Parsons Nashville - Me Pocono - Darrell Waltrip Talladega - Dale Earnhardt Michigan - Bobby Allison Bristol - Richard Petty Darlington - Cale Yarborough Richmond - Dale Earnhardt Dover - Harry Gant North Wilkesboro - Darrell Waltrip Martinsville - Me Charlotte - Rusty Wallace Rockingham - Neil Bonnett Atlanta - Cale Yarborough Ontario - Richard Petty Standings: 1 - Dale Earnhardt 2 - Cale Yarborough 3 - Benny Parsons 4 - Richard Petty 5 - Darrell Waltrip 6 - Me 7 - Terry Labonte 8 - Harry Gant 9 - Dave Marcis 10 - Buddy Arrington 1981: Riverside - Richard Petty Busch Clash - Bobby Allison Daytona Qualifier 1 - Richard Petty Daytona Qualifier 2 - Donnie Allison Daytona Consolation Race - Bill Elswick Daytona 500 - Dave Marcis Richmond - Darrell Waltrip Rockingham - Bobby Allison Atlanta - Bobby Allison Bristol - Me North Wilkesboro - Mark Martin Darlington - Bobby Allison Martinsville - Richard Petty Talladega - Benny Parsons Nashville - Me Dover - Bobby Allison Charlotte - Joe Ruttman College Station - Jody Ridley Riverside - Me Michigan - Bobby Allison Daytona - Dale Earnhardt Nashville - Bobby Allison Pocono - Richard Petty Talladega - Dale Earnhardt Michigan - Bobby Allison Bristol - Benny Parsons Darlington - Darrell Waltrip Richmond - Darrell Waltrip Dover - Bobby Allison Martinsville - Neil Bonnett North Wilkesboro - Bobby Allison Charlotte - Jody Ridley Rockingham - Jody Ridley Atlanta - Bobby Allison Riverside - Darrell Waltrip Standings: 1 - Bobby Allison 2 - Jody Ridley 3 - Darrell Waltrip 4 - Harry Gant 5 - Richard Petty 6 - Dale Earnhardt 7 - Terry Labonte 8 - Me 9 - Dave Marcis 10 - Benny Parsons 1982: Busch Clash - Me Daytona Qualifier 1 - Donnie Allison Daytona Qualifier 2 - Richard Petty Daytona Consolation Race - Lowell Cowell Daytona 500 - Harry Gant Richmond - Terry Labonte Bristol - Me Atlanta - Ricky Rudd Rockingham - Me Darlington - Bobby Allison North Wilkesboro - Bobby Allison Martinsville - Ron Bouchard Talladega - Dale Earnhardt Nashville - Neil Bonnett Dover - Me Charlotte - Ron Bouchard Pocono - Bobby Allison Riverside - Tim Richmond Michigan - Ron Bouchard Daytona - Benny Parsons Nashville - Bill Elliott Pocono - Bobby Allison Talladega - Cale Yarborough Michigan - Geoff Bodine Bristol - Dale Earnhardt Darlington - Harry Gant Richmond - Bobby Allison Dover - Bobby Allison North Wilkesboro - Terry Labonte Charlotte - Darrell Waltrip Martinsville - Bobby Allison Rockingham - Darrell Waltrip Atlanta - Bobby Allison Riverside - Me Standings 1 - Bobby Allison 2 - Harry Gant 3 - Ricky Rudd 4 - Richard Petty 5 - Me 6 - Dale Earnhardt 7 - Morgan Shepherd 8 - Ron Bouchard 9 - Terry Labonte 10 - Darrell Waltrip 1983: Busch Clash - Dale Earnhardt Daytona Qualifier 1 - Cale Yarborough Daytona Qualifier 2 - Lake Speed Daytona Consolation Race - Lowell Cowell Daytona 500 - Richard Petty Richmond - Terry Labonte Rockingham - Me Atlanta - Richard Petty Darlington - Richard Petty North Wilkesboro - Bill Elliott Martinsville - Me Talladega - David Pearson Nashville - Bobby Allison Dover - Richard Petty Bristol - Tim Richmond Charlotte - Lake Speed Riverside - Bill Elliott Pocono - Richard Petty Michigan - Richard Petty Daytona - Bill Elliott Nashville - Bobby Allison Pocono - Bill Elliott Talladega - Terry Labonte Michigan - Bill Elliott Bristol - Bobby Allison Darlington - Lake Speed Richmond - Bobby Allison Dover - Bill Elliott Martinsville - Me North Wilkesboro - Harry Gant Charlotte - Harry Gant Rockingham - Neil Bonnett Atlanta - Harry Gant Riverside - Bill Elliott Standings: 1 - Bill Elliott 2 - Harry Gant 3 - Darrell Waltrip 4 - Me 5 - Neil Bonnett 6 - Bobby Allison 7 - Richard Petty 8 - Terry Labonte 9 - Tim Richmond 10 - Dale Earnhardt 1984 (Truncated): Busch Clash - Jim Bown Daytona Qualifier 1 - Me Daytona Qualifier 2 - Bill Elliott Daytona Consolation Race - Jody Ridley Daytona 500 - Cale Yarborough Richmond - Darrell Waltrip Rockingham - Harry Gant Atlanta - Harry Gant Bristol - Richard Petty North Wilkesboro - Ricky Rudd Darlington - Cale Yarborough Martinsville - Tim Richmond Talladega - Benny Parsons Nashville - Bill Elliott Dover - Neil Bonnett Charlotte - Buddy Baker Standings (as of Charlotte): 1 - Neil Bonnett 2 - Terry Labonte 3 - Tim Richmond 4 - Bill Elliott 5 - Harry Gant 6 - Bobby Allison 7 - Geoff Bodine 8 - Ricky Rudd 9 - Darrell Waltrip 10 - Dale Earnhardt 1419. David posted: 12.22.2013 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Actually, have you been keeping up with the changes to the lists? Greg Biffle eventually made all five lists (after editing of mine and Sean's) and he's not on the clinched list. Just so you know, my list was on #1347 and was edited on #1360 when I bumped off Hamilton, Castles, and Wood in favor of Foyt, Gurney, and Elder. Sean added Biffle in and moved Wood out in post #1343. 1420. The Sound posted: 12.22.2013 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1418 - I agree, it's not essential. It's something I would like to accomplish, but it's not necessary for the sim. I do plan on posting screenshots on an outside site, but that's not irreplaceable. I have been founding some very nice retro paint schemes for the Gen6BR cars, though. Harry Gant, Alan Kulwicki, Davey Allison, etc. They look very sharp. David, I would love more lists, so I'll keep looking. I believe I'll accept new lists up through the end of this week, so anyone that has been holding out is free to contribute. Hopefully, I can run the LCQ by the end of the year, though for that I won't worry about proper paint schemes. As you noted, I may need to revise my impromptu criterion for the race. 1421. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.22.2013 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "We are the best racing related board on the internet" Eh, no offense but in terms of stats, this site is second to none but in terms of posters, well........ i'll stop here. This sites heyday was back in about 2009-2011 in terms of posters and post quality. Now, oh how the mighty have fallen. Now, for the news, NASCAR.com did a top 10 list of guys who haven't won a championship, the list is: 10. Geoffrey Bodine (keep you Yankee comments too yourself DSFF) :-P 9. Tim Richmond 8. Denny Hamlin (has no place on this list) 7. Fred Lorenzen 6. Ricky Rudd 5. Kyle Busch (see Denny Hamlin) 4. Davey Allison 3. Fireball Roberts 2. Mark Martin 1. Junior Johnson I know they forget some people but it isn't a horrible list. BTW The Sound i could do a list but it may be after the 25th. 1422. We need more Onion posted: 12.22.2013 - 1:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why exactly do you think that Kyle has no place there? Maybe not 5th, maybe he should be behind Rudd and Richmond, but he IS top 10. Except if you mean that Kyle and Denny can still win one, hence they should not be there, with that I could totally agree. By the way today marks the end of my 1st year here. Despite many of you are arguing constantly and there are trolls and total idiots, most guys have proper opinions, knowledge, respect for others and intelligence. All in all, I like it here and wish you all a merry Christmas in advance. 1423. David posted: 12.22.2013 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Eh, no offense but in terms of stats, this site is second to none but in terms of posters, well........ i'll stop here. This sites heyday was back in about 2009-2011 in terms of posters and post quality." You mean in the days when people would accuse each other of being blind and/or mentally insane for seeing different views on a crash and merely having different opinions? Yep, those were the good ol' days. This is the best racing website out there. Yes, its open nature does invite trolls, but the fact that we haven't had very many alone makes it a great place to converse. We have intelligent, CIVIL discussions almost all the time on a wide variety of subjects. I think the actual amount of arguing is way overblown. If you were to look back, the only real spat we've had since the season ended was between NRF and MStall41. Post #1396 was just trolling. Other than that, it's always been fun for me to be here. 1424. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 12.22.2013 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @1421, I would have Carl Edwards somewhere on that list in place of Hamlin or Kyle Busch. He did finish '08 and '11 with the most points and was "Chased" out of them and with the help of the Chase had half a chance in '05. He has had some head scratching seasons mixed in with his top years, but his best seasons thus far make him worthy of that list. 1425. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is a beautiful #27 Old Milwaukee Pontiac Gen 6 Mod paint scheme out there but I couldn't download it. 1426. DB1995 posted: 12.22.2013 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My top 5 Christmas songs -AC/DC Jingle Hells Bell -Santa Claus (Iron Man parody) -Jeff Foxworthys 12 days of Christmas - Ray Stephens I aint gettin nothin for Christma - AC/DC Mistress for Christmas 1427. The Sound posted: 12.22.2013 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1425 - That was Tim Richmond, correct? I found a link to that car, but the download only contained an image rather than the car file itself. Very disappointing. 1428. JG24FanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Will anyone please put a hex on the Saints? 1429. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is twice in 3 weeks Cam Newton has played poorly in a big game. I seriously doubt his playoff ability. He just looks scared out there. And that is even if we make the playoffs. Don't put it past us to lay an egg in Atlanta next week. A damn shame because our defense has been incredible today. 1430. JG24FanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Carolina makes it in, Cam will likely choke very, very badly. He doesn't seem to handle pressure very well, or come up with the big play when he needs it. Sucks! 1431. JG24FanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! BIG PLAY FOR CAM!! 1432. JG24FanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Peyton Manning cracked 50 TD passes today. 1433. JG24FanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 4:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) f**k YES!!!! YES!!! YES!!! Carolina!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1434. JG24FanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, Can you believe that drive?!? No choke this time. 1435. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am both pumped and stunned. Where in the hell did that drive come from? That was Bizarro Cam Newton. He played like complete shit for 59 minutes then threw perfect precision passes when he absolutely had to. Playoffs baby! 1436. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.22.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Enjoy #2 overall, St. Louis. @#$!@ @%!@$!@%@! !%!%@$ Cowboys! 1437. JG24FanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 4:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "That was Bizarro Cam Newton. He played like complete shit for 59 minutes then threw perfect precision passes when he absolutely had to." It's almost like he grew up all at once. "Playoffs baby!" YEAH!! 1438. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.22.2013 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "You mean in the days when people would accuse each other of being blind and/or mentally insane for seeing different views on a crash and merely having different opinions? Yep, those were the good ol' days." If you mean when Carl helped Brad take flight or the other way around in 2009 then well of course that is a matter of opinion. Back then no one "made a plea for sanity." No offense Long Shot. "Why exactly do you think that Kyle has no place there? Maybe not 5th, maybe he should be behind Rudd and Richmond, but he IS top 10. Except if you mean that Kyle and Denny can still win one, hence they should not be there, with that I could totally agree." Kyle and Denny have time too win one, so they shouldn't be on there at all. Ernie Irvin and Harry Gant should be on there. "@1421, I would have Carl Edwards somewhere on that list in place of Hamlin or Kyle Busch. He did finish '08 and '11 with the most points and was "Chased" out of them and with the help of the Chase had half a chance in '05. He has had some head scratching seasons mixed in with his top years, but his best seasons thus far make him worthy of that list." I'd buy Carl more but then again i say modern drivers have no place because they have the TIME too win a championship. When they retire, then we can make assumptions on that topic. People can disagree with me but mondern drivers should be held off because of that all important "time" factor. 1439. murb posted: 12.22.2013 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have been founding some very nice retro paint schemes for the Gen6BR cars, though. Harry Gant, Alan Kulwicki, Davey Allison, etc. They look very sharp." Well, maybe we should just use the Gen6 as the mod then. It wouldn't really be my first choice personally, but if that seems like it is the easiest and quickest way to get paint schemes for everybody, then by all means. I think it would be really cool if we were able to get schemes together for everyone (everyone who will be in the top 75 that is - like The Sound was kind of saying, schemes for drivers who probably won't make it out of the LCQ and that type of thing aren't essential). I was just browsing around looking at potential paint schemes/mods and I too found a bunch of retro Gen6 schemes (Rusty's black and gold MGD scheme and Gordon's rainbow car being the most notable - I also found a sweet Rob Moroso car - too bad he wasn't around long enough to make it onto the list). So it looks like there are quite a few retro schemes for the Gen6 that are already out there. 1440. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.22.2013 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Any diecast collectors out there? 1441. JG24FanForever posted: 12.22.2013 - 8:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Any diecast collectors out there?" Remember the conversation we had earlier this year? I have Jeff Gordon's 1992 Revell Baby ruth 1/64 and a 1/43 Legends of Racing diecast of Curtis Turner's 1965 Ford that he won his last race at Rockingham with. I have dozens of diecast, but I haven't acquired anything in a long time. I like comic books more. 1442. The Long Shot posted: 12.22.2013 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you mean when Carl helped Brad take flight or the other way around in 2009 then well of course that is a matter of opinion. Back then no one "made a plea for sanity." No offense Long Shot." None taken. But there were two differences between both those cases. One: the community wasn't as large and as close-knit as we are now. Only a handful of people could be considered regular posters at the time, whereas now, I daresay we could name about 30-40 people who post on a regular/semi-regular basis. And two: I don't think anyone back then was making that big of a deal out of the thumbs-up/thumbs-down feature. In this instance, hardly a day or race page went past without some sort of mention of it (some more intense than others; I'll just leave it at that). From my research of old race pages, I'd say that the best time period for this community was mid-to-late 2012 to early 2013. I think it was the insane finish at Fontana that started that whole downward trend (or maybe it was my arrival to the forums; I started posting during the Texas weekend, 2 weeks after Fontana). 1443. David posted: 12.23.2013 - 12:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't think anyone back then was making that big of a deal out of the thumbs-up/thumbs-down feature." It would be pretty odd if they did; it wasn't introduced until February of this year. Apparently, you haven't been studying closely enough. ;) 1444. The Long Shot posted: 12.23.2013 - 1:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It would be pretty odd if they did; it wasn't introduced until February of this year. Apparently, you haven't been studying closely enough. ;)" *slams head into wall, rebounds from newly created hole, tosses David into hole* Yeah, that does make sense. In fairness, though, I can't remember reading a single comment that mentioned the addition (though I'm sure there were some). 1445. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.23.2013 - 1:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Remember the conversation we had earlier this year?" Yeah, I missed it though. 1446. joey2448 posted: 12.23.2013 - 4:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Anyone excited about the Bears-Packers game next Sunday? Holy shit that game will be epic! I hope to god the Bears win, especially after delivering the stink bomb they had tonight. I mean, their defense has been very un-Bear-like this season, so I could see the Eagles putting as many points on Chicago as they did, but the Bears' offensive unit just took a big dump. This was trhe league's 2nd-ranked offense in terms of points per game, and they could only muster a single TD and 11 pt??? Pathetic. But...I'm still hoping. GO BEARS!!! 1447. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.23.2013 - 8:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) ^ To be blunt, the NFC North sucks. And for all those saying "We'll be unbeatable once we have Aaron Rodgers back," how many times has San Fran gone up there and absolutely humiliated Green Bay in Lambeau in recent years? 1448. David posted: 12.23.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Speaking of paint schemes, does anyone here paint custom and/or replica cars for any of the NTG games? I've been browsing through the forums on their site and believe me, they have some awesome painters. Some schemes are simply unbelievable. 1449. startandparkfan posted: 12.23.2013 - 6:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) As the 2014 Olympics are coming up, this is what I think the Olympic Auto Racing Event would look like. These would be the races- an Open Wheel race a V8 Supercar-type race a Stock Car race a Grand-am type race with a DP class, P class, and GT class a Motorcycle race There could be a wide variety of countries participating, such as US, UK, Australia, Germany, Colombia, Venezuela, Brazil, Spain, Scotland, Finland, Netherlands, Mexico, Switzerland, Japan, France, Canada, New Zealand, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, South Africa, Hong Kong, and many more. 1450. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.23.2013 - 7:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) V8's and stock cars are awful similar... regardless, you NEED a touring car race and some sort of rally in there as well to be fully rounded. 1451. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.23.2013 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Rumor has it that football (NFL football, not the REAL football) is being concidered a future sport in the Olympics. This is Roger "the borg" Goddells way of spreading (like cancer) football too the rest of the world when the rest of the world (minus the United States) could give a shit about it. I'd rather have auto racing be an Olympic sport then American football. 1452. Spen posted: 12.23.2013 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Rather than just list drivers and years, I thought I'd give my opinion on how well each of the drivers will do in this sim: 1. Bobby Allison (1972) So long as he can keep up with Richard on the short tracks, and run well enough on the superspeedways, I think he'll be the guy to beat for the title. So long as Junior Johnson Racing doesn't internally combust, anyway. 2. Richard Petty (1967) He'll be practically unbeatable on the short tracks, but I don't see him doing so hot in the big races. 3. Dale Earnhardt (1987) He'll have his good tracks, but his relative lack of horsepower will hurt him overall. 4. David Pearson (1973) Fantastic on the big tracks, but I'm not sure how well the Woods will do on the shorts. Perhaps he'd be better off with the #17? 5. Cale Yarborough (1977) His high finishing rate that season might help him contend for the title. But I don't see him having the same speed as his teammate. 6. Jeff Gordon (1998) His amazing results from this season was mainly a result of Evernham's understanding of clean air. With a higher competition level, and without superior pit strategy, I don't see him winning this. '95 Gordon might actually be faster. 7. Darrell Waltrip (1981) Probably the only guy who'll regularly contend with Petty at the short tracks. I'm really looking forward to Bristol. Waltrip, Earnhardt, Yarborough and Wallace, all in their primes with great equipment? That will be *epic*. 8. Herb Thomas (1953) Dominant on dirt, and just might surprise some people on pavement. I expect he'll do the best of the pioneers. 9. Jimmie Johnson (2009) Hard to pick out a year for him, but I think this was his strongest season overall, even if 2013 felt more 'inevitable'. In any event, I'm looking forward to seeing Petty kick his arse at Martinsville. Hendrick's speed will keep him running consistently well, though. 10. Lee Petty (1959) His vulture strategy won't work as well with a deeper field. Still will run very good, especially on dirt. 11. Fireball Roberts (1958) I'm hard pressed to choose between this and '57. '58 Fireball will be a beast on the superspeedways, while '57 Fireball would be better at the short tracks. Either way, he's gonna win a few. 12. Ned Jarrett (1965) You can't argue against a season with 42 top fives. But he's going to be pretty much invisible at any track longer than a mile. 13. Junior Johnson (1965) He's going to have a handfull this year. Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough & Darrell Waltrip all driving for him, while trying to be an owner-driver as well???? And we think Stewart-Haas is going to have ego problems??? But if anyone can make this work, it'd be Junior. 14. Rusty Wallace (1993) Same category as DW and Ned, really. But he might surprise some people. 15. Bill Elliott (1985) Insanely good on the superspeedways. But the short tracks will bury him. 16. Tim Flock (1955) The speed of Kiekhaefer's car will get him into victory lane a time or three. 17. Tony Stewart (2005) I don't foresee him doing all that well. Maybe a flukey win, but mostly midpack. 18. Buck Baker (1957) Might win on a dirt track, but he'll be a backmarker on pavement. 19. Bobby Isaac (1969) A good number of poles, mixed in with a lot of DNF's. 20. Fred Lorenzen (1963) The driver I'm most interested in watching. He's one of the few Fords that might be able to keep up with Bill, and he's good enough on the short tracks to maybe make things interesting. 21. Mark Martin (1998) '93 Mark may be more versatile, but this one has the outright speed to occasionally contend. 22. Matt Kenseth (2013) Probably a quiet year, but don't rule out a win. 23. Curtis Turner (1950) Will likely lead a lot of laps, and blow up frequently. 24. Joe Weatherly (1962) Yeah, '63 was more impressive, but his '62 car will be a force to be reckoned with. 25. Rex White (1961) Yes, I think he was better this year than in his title run. Same category as Ned. 26. Benny Parsons (1977) Basically midpack. 27. Jim Paschal (1963) Some speed on the short tracks. 28. Terry Labonte (1996) Midpack. 29. Harry Gant (1991) Could be surprisingly competitive. 30. Marvin Panch (1957) Versatile enough to rack up a good number of points. Probably winless, though. 31. Dick Hutcherson (1965) Pretty fast, on dirt. 32. Dale Jarrett (1997) The Yates crew will be tough on plate tracks. That's about it. 33. Fonty Flock (1951) Another one who might contend on dirt, but not much else. 34. Tim Richmond (1986) Might snag a Pocono win. 35. Dick Rathman (1953) Might win Langhorne. 36. Ricky Rudd (2001) Hardest driver to pick a year for. But I think he'd be best off with Yates. 37. Ernie Irvan (1994) Midpack. 38. Davey Allison (1992) Another Yates car in the midfield. 39. Kurt Busch (2002) Yeah, '09 and '13 were more impressive from a driver standpoint, but '02 was his strongest year overall. I don't expect much from the Roushkateers, though. 40. Bobby Labonte (1999) Might win Atlanta. 41. Denny Hamlin (2010) Hard to say, but probably gets lost in the shuffle. 42. Geoff Bodine (1994) '90 might have been stronger, but Junior's gonna have enough on his plate without the loud mouthed Yankee b@sterd getting in the way. 43. Lee Roy Yarbrough (1969) Another question mark. 44. Neil Bonnett (1981) I don't expect anything great, but I could be wrong. 45. Buddy Baker (1975) A lot of early lead laps, followed by engine failure. 46. Kyle Busch (2008) I look forward to seeing him compete with Buddy for most blow-ups, and other assorted chokes. 47. Alan Kulwicki (1992) I'm afraid he won't be able to do much with this team. Maybe a couple of poles. 48. Carl Edwards (2008) Might be the fastest Roush car on intermidiates. Not that that will do much against Bill, Fireball and Fred. 49. Jeff Burton (1999) Even in the '99, he'll run like he's been running the last three years. Might contend at Loudon. 50. Brad Keselowski (2012) Without Wolfe's strategy in the equation, I don't expect anything good. 51. Marshall Teague (1951) Hard to predict, but might contend seriously. 52. Greg Biffle (2005) If we run at Homestead, we might see him once. 53. Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (2004) Without any teammates, I doubt he'll even do much at the plates. 54. Kevin Harvick (2010) He does hold the record for highest percentage of career laps completed. That might help him point-wise. 55. Jack Smith (1962) I have low expectations. 56. A.J. Foyt (1972) Too inexperienced at too many tracks. But he might snag a win somewhere. Ontario maybe? 57. Speedy Thompson (1956) Might run good on dirt. That's it. 58. Kasey Kahne (2006) He's got enough wins to qualify in my book. But I expect very little from him. 59. Jim Reed (1959) If we have any *really* short tracks (as in less than half a mile) he might contend a bit. 60. Bob Welborn (1958) He'll have the fastest convertible in the field. Of course, he'll also be the only one in a convertible. 61. Darel Dieringer (1966) Probably a backmarker on a regular basis, but don't underestimate him. 62. James Hylton (1970) Unfortunately, he'll probably be the slowest car in the field most days. 63. Clint Bowyer (2012) Just enough wins to qualify. He should be glad he makes the field. 64. Donnie Allison (1970) From here on out, I have zero expectations of good results, so I'll let the names stand on their own. 65. Cotton Owens (1959) 66. Paul Goldsmith (1958) 67. Sterling Marlin (1995) 68. Ryan Newman (2003) 69. Ralph Moody (1956) 70. Dan Gurney (1964) 71. Hershel McGriff (1954) 72. Red Byron (1949) 73. Nelson Stacy (1962) 74. Billy Wade (1964) 75. Alexis Rainsford (2010) ...Just kidding :) Seriously, Dick Linder (1950) NRF: Yeah, I collect diecasts. I've got a ton of them from '97-2001. 1453. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.23.2013 - 10:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The last game at Candlestick Park. Why isn't Joe Montana there? I know he recently blasted San Fran city officials for not doing more to keep the Niners in town (although they will still be the "San Francisco 49ers" they are moving 40 minutes away to Santa Clara) and he has never looked for the spotlight since retiring, but this is Candlestick Park. When you think of that place, you think of Joe Montana first. Even before Willie Mays (he is most known as a New York Giant and the Polo Grounds). How could they not get him to show up for one night? Hard to believe Steve Young has more wins there. He was Peyton Manning before Peyton Manning. Stats and MVPs with numerous playoff failures. Joe only lost in the playoffs in Candlestick in '87. Steve lost here in '90, '92, '95, and '97. 1454. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.23.2013 - 11:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Atlanta Falcons season in a nutshell. 1455. David posted: 12.23.2013 - 11:46 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "this is Candlestick Park. When you think of that place, you think of Joe Montana first" Actually, I think of the 1989 earthquake before the World Series game first...but I get your point. 1456. DB1995 posted: 12.24.2013 - 12:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) that was a pretty good game by the Falcons, I expected a huge blow out at something like 49-3, or something godawful like that 1457. 18fan posted: 12.24.2013 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) For baseball, outside of the earthquake, Willie Mays is definitely the first guy to think of, with Willie McCovey and Juan Marichal close behind. He only played 6 seasons in New York and had many great years in Candlestick. 1458. DB1995 posted: 12.24.2013 - 12:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) anybody on here seen the show "Street Outlaws" on Discovery, it is the biggest bullshit show I think I have ever seen, I would rather watch the opening scene to Two Lane Blacktop 10 times in a row than watch an episode of this show. 1459. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.24.2013 - 2:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was just talking about how certain players become synonymous with iconic venues. Here is an off the top of my head list of famous American sports venues and their most synonymous player. Not necessarily the best, just most well known. And I left off college only stadiums. Too much player movement for one to really be "synonymous". I also left off famous venues without a single identifiable player that transcended across all sports like Shibe Field, Forbes Field, Comiskey Park, and Arrowhead Stadium. Outdoor stadiums/giant domes Yankee Stadium: Babe Ruth The Polo Grounds: Willie Mays (I know he spent much longer in San Fran, but in New York he won a championship, became The Say Hey Kid, and made that catch) Ebbets Field: Jackie Robinson Fenway Park: Teddy Baseball Shea Stadium: Joe Namath The Meadowlands: Lawrence Taylor Veterans Stadium: Mike Schmidt Three Rivers: Roberto Clemete Memorial Stadium: Brooks Robinson (The Human Vacuum Cleaner beats out Johnny U) Camden Yards: Cal Ripken Jr RFK: John Riggins The Orange Bowl: Dan Marino The Astrodome: Earl Campbell (Nolan Ryan's time there was pretty non descript compared to his other3 stops) Texas Stadium: Troy Aikman Sportsman Park: Stan The Man Musial Busch Stadium: Ozzie Smith Wrigley Field: Dick Butkus (what a pathetic existence for the Cubs) Milwaukee County Stadium: Hammering Hank Lambeau Field: Bart Starr Soldier Field: Walter Payton Tiger Stadium: Ty Cobb The Silverdome: Barry Sanders Metropolitan Stadium: Fran Tarkenton Mile High Stadium: John Elway The Skydome: Joe Carter (hey, Toronto is pretty much America) Cleveland Stadium: Jim Brown Riverfront Stadium: Pete Rose Candlestick Park: Joe Montana (all the highlights, all the championships) LA Memorial Stadium: OJ Simpson (unpopular but true, nobody on the Raiders did much there) The Kingdome: Ken Griffey Jr (had to put my personal bias towards The Big Unit aside) Dodger Stadium: Sandy Koufax Jack Murphy Stadium: Tony Gwynn Indoor arenas. Madison Square Garden: Michael Jordan (did more twice a year there than any Knick) Boston Garden: Bill Russell (wasn't appreciated at the time like Bird was, but we realize now 11 is a big number) LA Forum: Magic Johnson Race Tracks. Indianapolis Motor Speedway: AJ Foyt Daytona International Speedway: Richard Petty Darlington Raceway: David Pearson Talladega Superspeedway: Dale Earnhardt Riverside International Raceway: Dan Gurney 1460. 18fan posted: 12.24.2013 - 3:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you had to pick a Cub it would be Ernie Banks, "Mr. Cub". 1461. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.24.2013 - 9:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ernie Banks was great. Problem is he played on teams that would have lost to those kids from The Sandlot movie. He should be the face of Wrigley Field. The Cubs organization prevented that. Also, for the Orange Bowl, it SHOULD be Larry Czonka. But Marino set all those records in '84 there that stood until the NFL banned defense, so that is what everyone remembers. Also, one indoor arena I forgot: The Spectrum: Dr Freaking J! 1462. Jim Davis posted: 12.24.2013 - 9:43 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "LA Memorial Stadium: OJ Simpson (unpopular but true, nobody on the Raiders did much there)" But the Rams played there for many years. Deacon Jones? Jack Youngblood? Merlin Olsen? Roman Gabriel? 1463. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.24.2013 - 10:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Does anyone else look at all the players who have surpassed Dan Marino's 48 TD passes in 1984 and think "These other guys have it WAY easier than Dan did."? 1464. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 12.24.2013 - 10:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @1459 I would have Marino as the face of Joe Robbie Stadium or whatever sponsor is on it now and I believe Reggie Miller is more associated with MSG than Jordan; though to me the face of MSG as a player and now broadcaster is Walt 'Clyde' Frazier, swishin' and dishin' around the hoop. I would also have a member of the Steelers as the face of Three Rivers, Clemente only played 2-3 years in that stadium. Other venues: Bristol - Darrell Waltrip Metrodome - Kirby Puckett 1465. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.24.2013 - 11:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Arrowhead Stadium: Len Dawson Qualcomm Stadium: Dan Fouts Paul Brown Stadium (or wherever Cinci played): Ken Anderson Cowboy Stadium: Jerry Jones (wouldn't have less now would he?) 1466. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.24.2013 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "75. Alexis Rainsford (2010) ...Just kidding :)" I see what you did there Spen. I haven't watch anyone of Cynon44 TMMC videos in a long while, i think the last one i watched was the season finale of last year. I go on the forums he is apart of once in a while and see what is up. 1467. David posted: 12.24.2013 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) SInce I'm only proficient (if you can call it that) in NASCAR, I'll list several faces of iconic Cup venues: Atlanta Motor Speedway: Dale Earnhardt - Not only because of his nine wins there, but because so many of his championship runs were finished off there. Bristol Motor Speedway: Darrell Waltrip - This was a tough one, but I'm going with my first instinct. Cale Yarborough did have several dominant runs there (including leading flag-to-flag in 1973), and Dale definitely had some memorable moments, but it's hard to go against Waltrip and his seven straight wins from 1981-84. Charlotte Motor Speedway: Bobby Allison - Johnson's really lost his edge there in recent years (if this was the face of "Lowe's Motor Speedway", then it would be an easy choice), and Waltrip's already the face of one track, so I went with Allison, who swept the 1971 events at the track, but whose most memorable moment may be quitting NASCAR after the 1973 race when Yarborough and Petty were found with oversized engines, yet allowed to keep their positions. Martinsville Speedway: Richard Petty - Is there anyone else? He has 15 wins there. North Wilkesboro Speedway: Richard Petty - See Martinsville Speedway. Richmond International Raceway: Richard Petty - OK, we get it, King Richard was legendary at the short tracks, which is one of the many reasons you can't discredit his legacy. DSFF named off the obvious choices for the other big ones, so I won't mention them. 1468. DB1995 posted: 12.24.2013 - 4:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No mention of Rusty Wallace for Bristol? I think I would give Rusty the Bristol advantage over Earnhardt, or it would at least be very very close, I would throw Yarborough in, but he raced in a time where mechanical failures plagued teams at Bristol and other similar tracks, and Yarborough led more laps at Bristol in 15 less starts than Wallace and Earnhardt, and got the same amount of wins, but not close in top 10 and top 5. Wallace at Bristol Win:9 Top 5: 22 Top 10: 29 Average finish: 9.6 Average start: 8.2 Laps led: 3743 DNF: 3 Start: 44 Earnhardt at Bristol Win:9 Top 5:20 Top 10:30 Average Finish:9.3 Average Start: 13.2 Laps led: 3751 DNF:2 Starts:43 So you see how I could rank them very closely one thing Earnhardt has over Wallace is he led 8 more laps (4 miles), I know Rusty has one more start than Dale had, but its still very close. And I know Dale has those famous Terry Labonte Finishes, but in my opinion neither of those compare to Rusty's Polish victory lap the week Kulwicki died. BTW, don't take this really seriously as I'm not as experienced with NASCAR as most people here these stats are all I based this off of. 1469. Sean posted: 12.24.2013 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) People are listing Waltrip for Bristol, not Earnhardt, and he definitely has greater stats there than either Earnhardt or Wallace. I can't decide between Earnhardt or Rusty for Bristol, but I'd probably take Rusty because he seemed to be more relevant there in the later years of his career, even when he was struggling elsewhere, while Earnhardt was probably doing better over the overall schedule in his later years but not AS great at Bristol, one famous race aside. Also, Rusty was seen as a short track specialist while Earnhardt was seen as more balanced, so that would lead me to probably choose Rusty. Not that I'd criticize anyone for picking Dale. Darrell certainly did more there than either. If Jimmie Johnson was the face of any track, it would probably be Dover. 1470. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.24.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Again, it is about who performed well AND had memorable moments at a venue. This is not a pure numbers situation. That is why I would pick Dale for Bristol. Darrell had 3 more victories and won there for 4 owners. He is definitely the best there. But outside of him being in victory lane there all the time, there really is no memorable momen there from him. Dale on the other hand won 9 times there and spread his wins out (he got his first win just one year after Darrell got his first win there, and his final win 7 years after Darrell's final win there). And he has so many highlights there. Rattling Terry's cage in '99, wrecking Rusty, Lake Speed, and Terry (as he was taking the checkered flag) in '95. The epic 3 wide pass entering Turn 1 in '93, making Rick Hendrick whine on national TV in '89 after dropping Bodine, Sterling thinking he could just cut across Dale's front bumper and Dale would lift in '87, the bump and run on Tim Richmond to win the '85 Night Race, winning the Spring '85 race by going the final 450 laps with no power steering. Hell, in that same Spring '87 race, Bodine got wrecked by Schrader, then said "that was an Earnhardt move, there's only one Earnhardt, we don't need another one". When you think of Bristol, you think of Earnhardt. Tracks Earnhardt is the face of: Talladega, Bristol, Atlanta Tracks Petty is the face of: Daytona, Martinsville, Wilkesboro, Rockingham, Dover, the Richmond Fairgrounds, the Nashville Fairgrounds Tracks Pearson is the face of: Darlington, Charlotte, Michigan Tracks Gordon is the face of: Sears Point, Watkins Glen, Pocono (narrowly beating out Tim Richmond) Tracks Rusty is the face of: The New Richmond, Iowa (placed here cause it is a real RACE track, and he built it) Tracks nobody is the face of because the track has no lasting memories: Homestead (no one person has stood out), Texas, Cali, Vegas, Chicago, Kansas, Kentucky As for Jimmie Johnson, the only thing he is the face of is the chunks of empty seats where fans used to pack into, giant sponsor tarps where fans used to pack into, and the empty spaces where grandstands used to be that fans filled to the brim. 1471. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.24.2013 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Actually, I say Stewart is the face of Homestead. He won the first two races, then clinched all 3 of his titles there, celebrating in his entertaining style when he is Fun Tony (as opposed to I Wanna Strangle Him Tony). This puts him as being much more memorable there than JJ despite him clinching twice as many titles there. And what puts it over the top is his performance there in 2011. In one of the best and most clutch performances in NASCAR history, he had to go to the back twice, never lost his swagger, and drove through the field with daring slidejobs, driving on the very edge all race without wrecking, never letting the pressure phase him, as for one of the few times in the last year a driver single handedly had the fans on the edge of their seats. How good was Tony in the 2011 Ford 400? If Dale Earnhardt (the most clutch/balls out driver ever) had that exact same performance, it would be in his Top FIVE races ever. That is how good Tony was on that night. 1472. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.24.2013 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *few times in the last 10 years 1473. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.24.2013 - 7:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Merry Christmas Racing Reference Community!!! "As for Jimmie Johnson, the only thing he is the face of is the chunks of empty seats where fans used to pack into, giant sponsor tarps where fans used to pack into, and the empty spaces where grandstands used to be that fans filled to the brim." - No way DSFF, if Jimmie sees you at Martinsville next year he will run like a madman towards you channeling his inner "Warrior" and Gorilla Press Slam you followed by a running big splash. 1474. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.24.2013 - 7:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Despite the underwhelming racing series seasons in 2013, I have enjoyed reading the posts on this board because variety is a positive even with the troll posts and the like. Kudos to Mr. Webmaster and best wishes for a happy and healthy Holiday Season! 1475. Spen posted: 12.24.2013 - 9:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Subaru: I haven't watched since this year's Karjala GP. Deveroux just isn't as fun to watch as Alexis. 1476. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.24.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Subaru: I haven't watched since this year's Karjala GP. Deveroux just isn't as fun to watch as Alexis." He moved Alexis too the V8 Champcar series, which i question. But his series, he can do what he wants. 1477. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.25.2013 - 4:49 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) ^I find his obsession with fields that are densely populated with female, foreign, and drivers with freakish colored hair a bit odd... I have no problem with having female drivers be successful, but having like 7-10 in one race is just damned unrealistic. My big beef though is with the freaky hair... like Packer Carroll. Then again, people always tell me my works of fiction suck. 1478. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.25.2013 - 4:50 am Rate this comment: (5) (4) Merry Christmas to all here at RR and their families! 1479. An Aussie Commentor posted: 12.25.2013 - 6:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) OK I have finally decided to list the chase points if I was in charge of them. Note: Almost everything would be the same, except for Clint Bowyer being penalised AFTER the chase points were set instead of BEFORE. 1 Jimmie Johnson 2419 2 Matt Kenseth 2400 -19 3 Kevin Harvick 2385 -34 4 Kyle Busch 2364 -55 5 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 2363 -56 6 Jeff Gordon 2337 -82 7 Joey Logano 2323 -96 8 Greg Biffle 2321 -98 9 Kurt Busch 2309 -110 10 Ryan Newman 2286 -133 11 Clint Bowyer 2286 -133 12 Kasey Kahne 2283 -136 13 Carl Edwards 2282 -137 If anyone is wondering why Clint Bowyer is 11th while Ryan Newman is 10th is because Ryan Newman has 1 win while Clint Bowyer has 0 wins. 1480. DB1995 posted: 12.25.2013 - 8:38 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Merry Christmas to all! 1481. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.25.2013 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^I find his obsession with fields that are densely populated with female, foreign, and drivers with freakish colored hair a bit odd... I have no problem with having female drivers be successful, but having like 7-10 in one race is just damned unrealistic. My big beef though is with the freaky hair... like Packer Carroll. Then again, people always tell me my works of fiction suck." I think the reason way he has all those foreign drivers and female drivers is too take digs at NASCAR and F1. Since Indycar has more then NASCAR and F1 combined. Buts as it is said on their forum "semi-realisttic." I don't Cynon controls Packer Carroll, i think someone else does. 1482. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.25.2013 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I think the reason way he has all those foreign drivers and female drivers is too take digs at NASCAR and F1. Since Indycar has more then NASCAR and F1 combined. Buts as it is said on their forum "semi-realisttic." I don't Cynon controls Packer Carroll, i think someone else does. " I think it's a good concept in general, but it's hard to manage with the small crew he has. Small crew = half-assed work 1483. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 12.26.2013 - 7:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Guys, I know that I said you probably wouldn't hear from me again until speedweeks, but maybe you guys could help me out here. I'm trying to make a compilation of ALL the Blowovers and Noteworthy airtimes in NASCAR's top three divisions ever. I took the concept from a video uploaded several years back on youtube by Twister243, but I'm trying to include EVERYTHING up to this point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IQRfsqAFY The above link is the BETA video link, which is in TERRIBLE quality. I think I've missed some. If any of you can think of any that I may have missed, do let me know please. 1484. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 12.26.2013 - 7:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know I said that you guys probably wouldn't hear from me again until 2014's Speedweeks began to kick off, but some NASCAR-related things have gone on here. For one, I need your guy's help. I'm trying to compile every single blowover and noteworthy airtime in NASCAR's top three division's into one video. There is a video uploaded by Twister243 on youtube (wasn't made by him) which has alot of the blowovers from 1981-2006. That was the basic structure for my video, but I added alot of lesser-known ones in, and all that took place after 2006 until today. Here is the BETA version of my video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2IQRfsqAFY It's locked for right now, mainly because the majority of the video is only ripped from the original and in terrible quality. What I need your help with is to remind me of any airtimes or blowovers I missed. An incident where a car got into the air without the air, in some way or another, pushing it up and over doesn't count, (Case in point, Matt Kenseth 2009 Talladega Nationwide). I know I missed the one at the end of the 1984 Firecracker 400, but I can't find video of it, and I missed one in either Texas or Atlanta in 2007, and another at the end of the Firecracker 400 in 1980. if there are any others you guys can think of, please let me know either on the video, or here. 1485. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.26.2013 - 7:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) More Donovon McNabb hate (because it is always fun too do, kinda the French. It is always fun too poke fun at them.) Jimmie on his Facebook page: "So I'm told the AP ranked me as the 3rd best athlete of 2013... not bad for a non-athlete." Jimmie forgot too mention that the AP named him AOTY in 2009. McNabb gets burned again. 1486. The Long Shot posted: 12.27.2013 - 7:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) HE'S BACK!!! http://www.carllongmotorsports.com/FANS/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=ui8ctpdlua5prfhpmmrujlscs7&topic=7496 1487. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.27.2013 - 12:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ In the Nationwide Series. He still hasn't payed off the fine NASCAR gave him back in 2009 (i think, someone correct me if i'm wrong). But that only applies too the Cup series, he can race else were in NASCAR freely anytime he wants. 1488. Paul posted: 12.27.2013 - 12:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl Long made 12 Nationwide starts and one Truck start in 2013, so he isn't exactly "back" since he never left in the first place. As 1995 Subaru stated (and I have mentioned in the past, for what it's worth), Long is only banned from the Cup garage due to his outstanding fine, but can still participate in NASCAR so long as it's in a lower series. 1489. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 12.27.2013 - 11:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As long as Carl Long is competing in a lower Series, I'll wish him the best of luck and hope for him to get a decent finish by his team's standards. I am still sour over how NASCAR hit him hard with that penalty in '09. Anyway, here are my favorite NASCAR Highlights of 2013: -David Ragan winning at Talladega -Ryan Blaney progressing further in his Truck career and getting his first Nationwide Series win -Bubba Wallace winning at Martinsville for his 1st Truck win -Jamie McMurray winning at Talladega, showing us that his struggles are mostly due to Ganassi's cars not being up to par 1490. DB1995 posted: 12.28.2013 - 1:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) my season highlights 1. David Ragan at Talladega 2. Trevor Bayne wins at Iowa 3. Ross Chastain shows just how talented he is 4. Jamie Mcmurrays win 5. Kyle Busch winning all of those all important nationwide races! HAHAHAHAH 5. Any nationwide or truck race not won by a damn cup driver! 1491. NoLongerAnonymous posted: 12.28.2013 - 1:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Tracks Earnhardt is the face of: Talladega, Bristol, Atlanta Tracks Petty is the face of: Daytona, Martinsville, Wilkesboro, Rockingham, Dover, the Richmond Fairgrounds, the Nashville Fairgrounds Tracks Pearson is the face of: Darlington, Charlotte, Michigan Tracks Gordon is the face of: Sears Point, Watkins Glen, Pocono (narrowly beating out Tim Richmond) Tracks Rusty is the face of: The New Richmond, Iowa (placed here cause it is a real RACE track, and he built it) Tracks nobody is the face of because the track has no lasting memories: Homestead (no one person has stood out), Texas, Cali, Vegas, Chicago, Kansas, Kentucky As for Jimmie Johnson, the only thing he is the face of is the chunks of empty seats where fans used to pack into, giant sponsor tarps where fans used to pack into, and the empty spaces where grandstands used to be that fans filled to the brim." I don't see how you couldn't say Johnson isn't at least the face of Auto Club Speedway, unless of course you have an agenda to promote. It's his home track, the site of his first win, and he's easily been the best at that track in its history. I'd also say winning 3 straight events at Las Vegas is enough to make him the face of that track. I'd probably say Tony Stewart is the face of Homestead given that he's earned titles in the clutch there and his 2011 win is probably the track's most memorable race, but I agree that the other tracks don't really have a "face" (kind of bad that after 15 years, no one has yet established themselves as such at Texas). As for the tracks you listed that have faces, most are hard to argue with. I'd probably give Gordon an edge over Petty at Martinsville, but Johnson very well could become the face of both Dover and Martinsville (Dover is much more likely) if his recent success at those tracks continue for several years. Gordon's run of terrible performances at Watkins Glen kind of outweighs his accomplishments there, and Stewart's been consistently great there so I would probably give it to him. 1492. Eric posted: 12.28.2013 - 2:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NoLongerAnonymous, Giving Jeff Gordon an edge over Richard Petty at Martinsville is something I would disagree with. Jeff has a greater Finish average, but Jeff didn't hit his "Darrell Waltrip, Richard Petty, and "Mark Martin 2013" stage of their career. The other thing is HMS isn't in the decline unlike what happened to Richard Petty at Petty Enterprises. Richard has 15 career cup wins there. Yes, Richard Petty has worse finish average there than Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson. The problem is Richard Petty's 11.2 career finish at Martinsville is caused by Richard Petty racing way past his prime and he wasn't great at Martinsville after the spring race of 1980 and the 1980's was a tough period for him at Martinsville. Starting in the fall race of 1980, Richard Petty only had 1 top 5 and 4 top's at Martinsville. Richard's last top 10 at Martinsville was in 1985. The rule of thumb with Richard Petty is too throw away his stats from 1988 to 1992 since 1987 was the last year Richard finished in the top in points with 14 top 10's. The other thing is Richard Petty went 8 years without winning another race caused by different factor including Petty Enterprises being behind the times. The other rule of thumb with Richard Petty was a threat for the 1980 cup championship before he broke his neck at Pocono in 1980 and wasn't a cup championship threat at anytime after that. Dale Inman leaving Petty Enterprises after Richard's 7th Daytona 500 win did help matters along with a declining Petty Enterprises. Richard was 43 when that injury happened. The best way to look at it is Dale Earnhardt Sr. wasn't quite the same driver after he got major injuries from his 1996 summer Talladega crash at the age of 45 that took him after the 1999 season to completely recover. Drivers in their 40's after recovering from a major injury actually are not the same drivers before it. 1493. Eric posted: 12.28.2013 - 3:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jimmie Johnson not being the face of Martinsville is something I wouldn't count on. Jimmie is going to be 39 September of 2014. Usually a big name cup star in the modern era over the age of 40 gets their final win at Martinsville before they turn 45. Richard Petty's last Martinsville win happened when he was 41 going on 42 years old. Geoff Bodine was 43 when he had last Martinsville win. Ricky Rudd was 42 in 1998 when he had his last Martinsville win. Harry Gant was 51 when his last cup win at Martinsville happened. Rusty was 47 going on 48 years old when he won his last Martinsville win, but it took Rusty 8 years to get another Martinsville win with his 2004 being based the track it self not wanting Jeff to win the spring of 2004 race. Dale Jarrett got his only Martinsville win when he was 44 years old spring of 2001. My point is cup Drivers usually get their final Martinsville win before 45 years old unless you are Harry Gant. The fact is Harry Gant winning over the age of 50 years old is something usually that usually doesn't happen to cup drivers. Rusty's final cup win at Martinsville was a fluke based on Jeff Gordon's car hit a pothole on the track. Based on the Drivers I mentioned, I think it is possible for Jimmie Johnson to get 5 or 6 more wins at Martinsville. The fact is Jimmie does get tough competition at Martinsville in terms of winning at the race track 2 times in a season for Jimmie is unlikely. Jimmie only swept booth cup races at Martinsville once and that in 2007. 1494. The Long Shot posted: 12.28.2013 - 11:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) @1995 Subaru/Paul: I was referring to the fact that Long has started his team back up again. He was always an owner-driver that I had a lot of respect for, so I'm really glad to see that he's back in the sport in that role. (Long was even the inspiration for my RR alias; Brock Beard gave him that nickname in his starting grid videos a few years back.) 1495. The Sound posted: 12.28.2013 - 12:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If anyone else would like to contribute a list of their Top 75 drivers, please do so within the next couple of days. I would like to run the LCQ on Monday or New Year's Eve, so that the field may be finalized. I will be taking a week off from the internet after New Year's to refresh, but after that I will set the sim into motion. Also, a belated Happy Christmas and Merry New Year's to you all. 1496. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 12.28.2013 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've liked the 'top 75' driver lists thus far. It's hard for me to remeber everyone, but as long as Davey Allison, Joe Weatherly, and Lee Petty make it in I'll be satisfied. Considering the wealth of knowledge you guys have, I'm sure those three will be in the group. 1497. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.29.2013 - 10:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seven-time F1 world champion Michael Schumacher suffered serious head injuries in a skiing accident. 1498. Anonymous posted: 12.29.2013 - 2:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thought: hasn't Hendrick been the lead developer on the last 2 or 3 new NASCAR models as well as the last 4 or 5 redos of the Chevy's? 1499. murb posted: 12.29.2013 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, that really sucks. Here's to a speedy recovery for Schumacher. 1500. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.29.2013 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2013 NFC South winners, the Panthers. They have a first round bye and if pigs start flying and Seattle loses at home to the Rams, they could have the #1 seed. Won't happen, but the fact it could happen is amazing. Had you said this would happen at the start of the year, I'd have said you are on crack. Of course getting here included two heart stopping wins to end the year. Good Lord, it is 2003 again with the Cardiac Cats. Let's do one game better this year boys! 1501. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.29.2013 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF is excited folks. Last time he was this pumped up, he brought home all the chips with Brad K. 1502. Spen posted: 12.29.2013 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) On reflection, I might replace Dick Linder with Ward Burton. He's the only multi-time Darlington winner who's not on my list, and combined with two other driver track wins, and a 500, he deserves a shot. My main reason for not listing him was because he never finished in the top five in points. 1503. Zackary Shawn posted: 12.29.2013 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like the Schumacher injury is worse than initially reported. Unfortunately, this is not all that uncommon with head trauma victims. Many often experience a lucid period where they act normally for several hours after initial impact. Actress Natasha Richardson and racer Mark Donohue are both good examples. 1504. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.29.2013 - 5:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Keep praying for Schumacher. This doesn't sound good. It would be the ultimate irony if this did him in after nearly 20 seasons of racing on the edge of danger. 1505. DB1995 posted: 12.29.2013 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) more driver injuries in 2013, althought Michael is retired. 1506. DB1995 posted: 12.29.2013 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Weird as i was about to post that Trevor Bayne was not letting MS slow him down while he is out skiing and snowboarding this weekend, I read about Schumacher getting injured. 1507. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.29.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Praying for Schumi 1508. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.29.2013 - 6:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Thought: hasn't Hendrick been the lead developer on the last 2 or 3 new NASCAR models as well as the last 4 or 5 redos of the Chevy's?" If anything, GM hand picked HMS for ironing out the Gen 6 kinks for Chevy and as well as the Gen 4 bodies. 1509. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.29.2013 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't mean to keep talking football while a racing legend's life is laying in the balance. I am praying for Schumi. I don't like these skiing head injuries. I am very worried. With that said, do you guys realize the PITTSBURGH STEELERS are gonna make the playoffs? If San Diego keeps up their shitting of the bed, they are in, and suddenly the AFC has a team that, should they make it to the Frozen Tundra of the Meadowlands, could win in that weather. In fact, should they make it, they might be my pick to win the AFC. I think Seattle, Carolina, Philly, and San Fran are better, but you never know. 1510. An Aussie Commentor posted: 12.29.2013 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Doesn't sound good. The description they've given about Schumi, does it sound like anyone? Like Dale Earnhardt or Dan Wheldon? 1511. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.29.2013 - 7:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Never mind. KC shit the bed. 1512. Sean posted: 12.29.2013 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As Zackary Shawn said, this is most reminiscent of what happened to Mark Donohue, because he, like Schumacher, initially seemed fine/not seriously injured immediately after his accident and was chatting with medical personnel before lapsing into a coma a day later. Ayrton Senna, Greg Moore, Dale Earnhardt, and Dan Wheldon all died instantly. No real parallels there. Rather shocking especially since he only had one serious injury in his entire Formula One career, no F1 drivers have died in an on-track crash since Senna, and this is so soon after his retirement. 1513. Sean posted: 12.29.2013 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, Senna wasn't killed instantly, duh. I knew that. But he steadily weakened and his injuries were considered life-threatening before he died, and it's not like something suddenly happened out of the blue after his injuries appeared non-life-threatening, as was the case with Donohue and Schumacher... I was no Schumacher fan, but I do hope for a Zanardi-like recovery. I fear worse though because severe head injuries are ultimately scarier than blood loss. As long as the doctors could stop the blood loss with Zanardi (as they did) he was going to make it, and this sort of thing seems quite frankly scarier than even the Greg Moore and Dan Wheldon crashes. They were certainly horrifying and clearly unsurvivable but they made sense. So many of the stories I've seen about Schumacher have contradicted each other that it's harder to make sense out of this. I hope the earlier stories are more accurate than they seem now and he'll be able to recover from his coma. 1514. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 12.29.2013 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm praying for Schumacher and hoping that if he makes it out of this, he'll be able to recover. 1515. Sean posted: 12.29.2013 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Andy Granatelli, the CEO of STP and Mario Andretti's winning car at the 1969 Indy 500, just died today at age 90. He almost didn't sponsor Richard Petty's car because he wanted an all-red livery, but Petty as we know won out in the end. He was considered one of the most innovative IndyCar engineers ever and a throwback to the "run what you brung" pre-spec era of the Indy 500, yet oddly he was a staunch supporter of the IRL in its early years, which is what was ultimately responsible for IndyCars being completely spec... He at least lived a good long life, but his death is certainly worth noting to any US racing fan. 1516. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.29.2013 - 8:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Andy Granatelli changed NASCAR for the better. The way he went about sponsoring a car plus his approach to the entire sport helped tremendously. 1517. murb posted: 12.29.2013 - 8:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, this just really sucks about Schumacher. Obviously, I'm hoping he'll somehow be able to pull through. I was never a fan of his when he was driving (some of his chop blocks and other dirty driving incidents really turned me off), but obviously you never wish this upon anybody. I really hope he'll somehow get through this. And yeah, ski accidents are no joke. There's a pretty big ski/snowboard scene where I live here in Idaho, and I've seen and heard enough horror stories to stay away from it. 1518. The Long Shot posted: 12.29.2013 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unconfirmed reports said that Schumacher suffered a cerebral hemorrhage upon arrival at the hospital. A report on his condition is expected to be released soon. My thoughts are with Michael and his family (supposedly his 14 year-old son was with him at the time of the accident). I really hope he makes it through this, but honestly, I'm not optimistic about his chances. Dear lord, I hope I'm wrong. 1519. The Long Shot posted: 12.29.2013 - 10:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Basically all I'm doing right now is refreshing Twitter to get the latest breaking news on Schumi's condition. This feels like June 12th all over again. 1520. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.29.2013 - 10:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This has the feel of the Ernie Irvan in '94 situation. Bad head injury, coma, critical condition, very touch and go, playing the waiting game. I pray this has the happy ending that Ernie's story wound up having. 1521. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 12.29.2013 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yep, the longer the wait is, the more worry we fans have. Praying that he pulls through. 1522. Schroeder51 posted: 12.29.2013 - 11:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Never been particularly enamored with Schumacher (like murb, his dirty driving incidents have turned me off him), but I really hope he can somehow pull through this and recover. Nobody deserves to go through anything like that, and I can only imagine what it must be like for his family right now. Here's hoping for a miracle. I know it might be a bit messed up to say this, but in a way, it's almost fitting that a year of racing filled with numerous unhappy and/or tragic occurrences would come to a close with bad news such as this. Good grief, what a bad year it's been to be a racing fan. 2014 can NOT get here soon enough. 1523. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.29.2013 - 11:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Orton throws a Romo. 1524. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.29.2013 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My NFL playoff predictions (cause I'm so good at those lol) Wild Card: Eagles def Saints 49ers def Packers Bengals def Chargers Colts def Chiefs Division: Panthers def Eagles Seahawks def 49ers Bengals def Patriots Colts def Broncos Conference: Seahawks def Panthers (please be wrong DSFF) Bengals def Colts Super Bowl: Seahawks def Bengals 1525. SpeedWorld97 posted: 12.29.2013 - 11:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I know it might be a bit messed up to say this, but in a way, it's almost fitting that a year of racing filled with numerous unhappy and/or tragic occurrences would come to a close with bad news such as this. Good grief, what a bad year it's been to be a racing fan." Funny because I was thinking the same exact thing, unfortunately. Also, my condolences go to the Granatelli family. Andy's name just seems like an iconic name with Indianapolis, but it's good to see that he lived a long, happy life. Everytime I think of him, I can't help but think of how it is long believed that he brought on the "Andretti Curse" when he kissed Mario after the '69 Indy 500. Plus, I always think of the STP pit uniform he and his pit crews wore at the IndyCar and NASCAR races of the 1970s. 1526. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.30.2013 - 12:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Boy I hope your picks are right DSFF, except one thing... the Bengals pick off Wilson like Flacco in the 4th quarter multiple times. I was at the Bengals game today and it was electric. If Dalton hadn't thrown the four interceptions, Cincinnati would have New Englanded Baltimore as the Ravens scored only 8 points without the turnovers. Honestly, I love the Bengals chances in round one, but Foxborough is tough as nails in January as it sets up a revenge game for New England against Cincinnati. Everyday is Groundhog Day in Dallas. Is Jerry Jones Bill Murray? or Jason Garrett(sp)? 1527. Jarrett88fan posted: 12.30.2013 - 12:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yep, the longer the wait is, the more worry we fans have. Praying that he pulls through." Here, here... 1528. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.30.2013 - 8:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sadly, it seems like Schumi's odds are about as good as Ernie Irvan's... let's pray that Schumi defies those odds. 1529. David posted: 12.30.2013 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I saw the news about Schumacher yesterday. He may not have been the classiest driver in F1's history, but he has the full support of the racing community. Can't 2013 just end already? 1530. startandparkfan posted: 12.30.2013 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jonathan Smith to drive in Nationwide for Jorkai Motorsports. 1531. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 12.30.2013 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BSPN hires Tim Tebow as a college football analayst. 1. Good for him, get payied without getting hurt. I'm sure he loves football but it is torture on your body. 2. BSPN adds some class and respectability but still has no class or respectability. 3. Lets see how Stenphen A. Smith reacts. (i think i'll let DSFF take over from here.) 1532. Mr X posted: 12.31.2013 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although I haven't posted in a while, I have been doing my best to keep up by just reading, I'd like to come out of hibernation somewhat, even if the wind chill is 50 below tonight. I'm really shocked to hear of Michael Schumacher's incident, I'm really pulling for him to make a full recovery, I really don't want this to be the way he goes out. Hopefully you all enjoyed a Merry Christmas, and go onto a safe and happy 2014. 1533. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.31.2013 - 6:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since Stephen A also works for ESPN he won't be allowed to say anything negative. Still can't believe no NFL team will pick him up. Just two years ago he took a moribund Broncos team and led them to the playoffs, winning a game. Why wouldn't a team like Jacksonville (Tim's hometown to boot) or Tampa, teams that are going nowhere, build around him? 1534. NicoRosbergFan posted: 12.31.2013 - 11:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) AFC Wild Card Round: 3-CIN def. 6-SD 4-IND def. 5-KC ===Divisional Round: 3-CIN def. 2-NE 4-IND def. 1-DEN =Championship Round: 3-CIN def. 4-IND NFC Wild Card Round: 6-NO def. 3-PHI (really? PHI is 2.5 point favorites? PHI S-U-C-K-S BAD!) 5-SF kls. 4-GB ===Divisional Round: 1-SEA def. 6-NO 5-SF def. 2-CAR =Championship Round: 5-SF def. 1-SEA Super Bowl: 5-SF kls. 3-CIN Summary: either SF, CAR, or SEA will represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. Regardless of which team represents the AFC, the NFC will win in a big-time rout unless somehow PHI plays DEN, which I seriously doubt with two of the biggest choke artists in the history of professional sports QBing those teams. 1535. Spen posted: 12.31.2013 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here's praying for Schumi. I'd wish for the year to be over, but my company has decided that new year's isn't a holiday. 1536. DaleSrFanForever posted: 12.31.2013 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) According to the espn ticker Schumi has made "small improvements" that have allowed a second surgery and he is now in a medically induced coma. This is definitely good news. Obviously he isn't oitof the woods or even close, with head injuries you just never know, but that he has improved and the doctors felt confident enough to perform another brain surgery and place him in a medically induced coma is great to hear. Still hoping and praying though. 1537. David posted: 12.31.2013 - 7:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I would like to run the LCQ on Monday or New Year's Eve, so that the field may be finalized." How did the race turn out? Or have you not run it yet? 1538. An Aussie Commentor posted: 01.01.2014 - 12:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Now before I write what I am about to write, I want to say that I have found a way to link this fight to a (sort of) race. Michael Schumacher VS the Grim Reaper for his life. Looks Like Michael Schumacher, with his life on the line, is leading the race of his life against the Grim Reaper. Initally The Grim Reaper had the lead (the brain heammorage) but then Schumi took the lead back "The first surgery going well" and has now pulled a small lead on the Reaper "second surgery" but there is still a very long race to go before Schumi can win, so I am still hoping that he pulls through and wins this race. 1539. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.01.2014 - 3:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's definitely a good sign that the doctors are confident enough to perform a second surgery. Obviously I'm still praying for him, and hoping he pulls through and "wins the race", as the poster above me alluded to. 1540. DB1995 posted: 01.01.2014 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I brought in the new year in a bad way, waking up to hear the news that James Avery passed away, he played Uncle Phil on my 2nd favorite sitcom The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air R.I.P 1541. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.01.2014 - 10:14 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Since Schumi has stabilized for the moment, let's go back to making lists! Englands greatest Prime Ministers: 1) Pitt The Elder *gets punched out by Barney Gumble* 1542. We need more Onion posted: 01.02.2014 - 9:18 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Was watching a (horribly boring) 2002 CART race and the commentators started talking about how physically strong the drivers are. "If you don't think they are athletes, then you are kidding yourself." Lel more than 11 years before mcnabb's bullshite. 1543. jabber1990 posted: 01.02.2014 - 10:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) i'm having withdrawls already I had a dream last night that I was watching the Daytona 500 (Despite it being at a track that wasn't Daytona) and of course I was following this site while I was watching the race. I don't remember alot of significant things, except that Stenhouse wrecked Danica (on purpose) now that you're done laughing, it was him overreacting, Trevor Bayne lost a tire and hit Danica forcing her to run into Stenhouse. so he went after her and pulled a Jeff Gordon (with slightly less violence) of course we all defended Danica (for once) then I woke up, which sucks, we were all enjoying the race 1544. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.02.2014 - 12:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, how dare you leave out Lord Palmerston! BTW, I was thrilled to find out all the Cup races from 2001 and 2002 are on Youtube (almost all in their entirety),as well as almost all the 2000 and 2003 races. Their are even lots of Qualifying and PRACTICE sessions up from that period. I'm sure all this is old news to most of you guys, but it's truly awesome to me that there is such a treasure land of this stuff on there, especially since I didn't get to see this stuff when it originally happened, so it's all like watching new races to me. 1545. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.02.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Since people on are (most likely) going through withdraws, FOX Sports 1 will airing testing from Daytona on Jan. 9-12. Posting this in case some of you need a fix. "Was watching a (horribly boring) 2002 CART race and the commentators started talking about how physically strong the drivers are. "If you don't think they are athletes, then you are kidding yourself." Lel more than 11 years before mcnabb's bullshite." Anyone who steps foot into a racecar is an athlete, anyone who steps on a football field is only playing for 7 mins (out of 60) and is in it for the money. And also get used like tool and thrown away when the owners and Roger Goddell are down with you. 1546. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.02.2014 - 1:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "i'm having withdrawls already I had a dream last night that I was watching the Daytona 500 (Despite it being at a track that wasn't Daytona) and of course I was following this site while I was watching the race. I don't remember alot of significant things, except that Stenhouse wrecked Danica (on purpose) now that you're done laughing, it was him overreacting, Trevor Bayne lost a tire and hit Danica forcing her to run into Stenhouse. so he went after her and pulled a Jeff Gordon (with slightly less violence) of course we all defended Danica (for once) then I woke up, which sucks, we were all enjoying the race " So, you're saying Stenhouse DUMPED Danica? 1547. murb posted: 01.02.2014 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm actually pretty exciting for Daytona Testing, believe it or not. I'm just ready to get this season started and finally put the horrible year of 2013 behind us once and for all. 1548. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.02.2014 - 3:05 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Well, since I didn't have Lord Palmerston as the best, Barney punched me out like he did to Wade Boggs (and then Moe). Poor Moe. Not only did he get punched out (on a misunderstanding) but had Wade Boggs stayed conscious, do you realize how much beer he would have sold? Wade once drank 64 beers on a flight from Seattle back to Boston. 1549. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.02.2014 - 3:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Haha yeah The single digit Simpsons years were so amazing. We're talking softball, from Maine to San Diego... Talking softball, Mattingly and Canseco, Ken Griffey's grotesquely swollen jaw, Steve sax and his run in the law, we're talking Homer, Ozzie and the Straw! Such a classic. 1550. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.02.2014 - 5:09 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^awesome 1551. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.02.2014 - 5:11 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Have you guys seen the Green Bay forecast? We've had the Ice Bowl, we've had the Freezer Bowl, this may be the Absolute Zero Bowl. 1552. The Long Shot posted: 01.02.2014 - 7:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dude, that's nothing. Here in Minnesota for the past few days we've been lucky to even hit zero at all. The high for us on Monday is projected to be -15 degrees (and yes, I said "the high"). 1553. We need more Onion posted: 01.02.2014 - 8:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While you guys are preparing for huge blizzards and absolute zeros, here it is 4 degrees Celsius atm, which is 2:14 a.m. And it is only projected to go higher. 1554. We need more Onion posted: 01.02.2014 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "which is 2:14" erm... no idea what I wanted to write there, it is supposed to be "at 2:14" 1555. jabber1990 posted: 01.02.2014 - 8:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So, you're saying Stenhouse DUMPED Danica?" its funny you say that, because either before that race or something (you know how dreams are) she went public and said after 18 months of dating they did break up due to the fact that I dream in 1st person, I have no clue half the time if i'm dreaming or witnessing reality it gets really depressing and confusing when girls are in the dreams 1556. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.02.2014 - 10:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well are any of y'all watching Alabama blow out Oklahoma in the Sugar Bowl?...oh...wait... 1557. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.02.2014 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I am shocked by this Alabama score. 1558. David posted: 01.02.2014 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm actually pretty exciting for Daytona Testing, believe it or not. I'm just ready to get this season started and finally put the horrible year of 2013 behind us once and for all." Same here. I can't wait for the 2014 season to get started, especially with all the ride shuffling. And I'm also really looking forward to other forms of racing getting underway, such as F1, IndyCar, and even the USCR. 1559. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.02.2014 - 11:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But...but...but...I thought Alabama was still the "best team in the country"... 1560. An Aussie Commentor posted: 01.03.2014 - 12:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've had strange dreams also, but most of mine have been related to V8 Supercars. I was watching the endurance race at Sandown raceway, I don't remeber much but I do remember that there was an incident 68 laps into the race involving James Moffat (his car No. was 600 for some reason) Mark Winterbottom, Will Davison, Garth Tander and David Wall. This is what I remembered happening, in this rough order. -Mark Winterbottom was pushed into the wall by Garth Tander at turn 9. -Garth Tander gets pushed into the wall by David Wall between turns 9 and 10. -James Moffat, Will Dvaidson and David Wall have a nose-to-tail at the entrance to turn 12, sending David Wall into the sand, doing severe left-rear damage to Davison's car, and Moffat suffered right-front damage when he ran into Will Davidson. The only other thing I can remember is that Craig Lowndes and Warren Luff won the race. Finally, can anyone think of a reason why James Moffat's car Number is 600? 1561. Jarrett88fan posted: 01.03.2014 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Roll Tears, Roll... Hopefully no person loses it over another Obama loss. If Auburn wins Monday evening Zackary Shaw, be on the lookout for Harvey Updyke. 1562. Jarrett88fan posted: 01.03.2014 - 1:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) * Correction: Bama loss, not Obama. One final point on Alabama. I believe CJS postulated Bama's drive for perfection wears their players down near the end of almost every season in at least one game. 79 points surrendered in their final 2 games compared to 102 in the previous 11. What is perplexing is the Auburn game presented many opportunities to win late while in the Sugar Bowl, the early interceptions really did them in. On another note, CBS better get their commercial investments straight with respect to the Indy and Cincinnati wild card weekend games. Restaurant magnet Jeff Ruby bought up 100 seats for military vets and their families for the Cincinnati game. There will be no television blackouts of playoff games, sadly one or both local markets will suffer. 1563. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.03.2014 - 2:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Oregon would have crushed Alabama if they had been given a bid to the Sugar Bowl. That was the matchup everyone wanted, but Oklahoma got the invite because the powers that be at the BCS and Sugar Bowl knew Oklahoma would sell more tickets in the Superdome. Heck, I think FSU would have crush in the National Championship. Then again, it's really hard to say who would win because bowl games seem more upset prone than regular season games. I'm not saying you can discount stats completely, but they aren't as telling of what's to come in bowl season as they are in the regular season. 1564. Jarrett88fan posted: 01.03.2014 - 3:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeppers Zack and to be quite honest with upsets in BCS games, who is to determine the potential four team playoff for the future? Alabama was overrated with their suspect secondary exposed in the Sugar Bowl. Michigan State impressed in the Rose. 1565. joey2448 posted: 01.03.2014 - 7:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Having lived in Fairbanks, Alaska, for four years, I still am surprised to see a forecast that predicts a "high" of -35 F (for example). In fact, while we're on the subject, did ya guys hear about that world record low temperature in Antarctica recently? I think it was -137 F!!! Holy...!!! 1566. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.03.2014 - 7:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my humble opinion, I think 4 teams is about 4 too few for the College Football Playoff. I it should be that the conference champions from you six major conferences (AAC, ACC, B12, B10, PAC-12, and SEC) plus two at-Large bids. So the teams this year would be, in order of seeding... 1) Florida State (ACC) 2) Auburn (SEC) 3) Michigan State (B10) 4) Stanford (PAC-12) 5) Baylor (B12) 6) Central Florida (AAC) 7) Alabama (SEC, At-Large) 8) Ohio State (B10, At-Large) I don't really believe a conference and school like UCF deserve a playoff berth, but if you didn't give it to them, you'd never hear the end of it. The first week you play four quarter final games (Florida State vs. Ohio State, Auburn vs. Central Florida, Michigan State vs. Alabama, Stanford vs. Baylor). Then the next week you play the two semi-final games. Hypothetically let's say: Florida State vs. Stanford and Auburn vs. Michigan State. Obviously, the winner of these two games would play for the National Championship. A rule I would make would be that conference don't play against each other in the quarter or semi-finals unless unavoidable. The big problem would be that this would probably have to expand the season by at least a week to give players enough time to recoup from the beating their bodies take, which could really affect the academic schedule for each respective school as well. Having said all that since we have a four team playoff, I do think the 4 teams this year (hypothetically) would have to be FSU, AU, UA, and MSU because you really have no choice but to base it off of the season. If a team is overrated let that be dealt with on the field during the playoffs. 1567. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.03.2014 - 10:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Replacing Marty Reid for the IndyCar broadcasts...Allen Bestwick. He'll pull double duty this year with IndyCar/NASCAR and do IndyCar for NESPN/ABC in 2015 and onward. I hope that he can get back to being a solid broadcaster as he was at NBC before he had the Dos Jotas narrative for every race shoved upon him. 1568. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.03.2014 - 11:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "In fact, while we're on the subject, did ya guys hear about that world record low temperature in Antarctica recently? I think it was -137 F!!! Holy...!!! " Using known-inaccurate methods. This meteorologist calls this myth busted. 1569. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.03.2014 - 12:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I don't really believe a conference and school like UCF deserve a playoff berth, but if you didn't give it to them, you'd never hear the end of it." Why does not a school UCF or a conference like the MAC, WAC or C-USA deserve a playoff bid? Are they not big enough? Players arne't good enough? UCF beat Baylor for crying outloud Zack. Baylor was SUPPOSED too win *allegedly.* How can a mid-major college be penalized for not playing bigger teams but teams similar too them? Please, Zack explain WHY they wouldn't..... although you say the rest of us would NEVER hear the end of it then why not include them so we don't need to go there in the first place. The only thing we'd agree on is that the playoff NEEDS too be 8 teams. However i wish they'd use the bowl games better. Set all bowl games up as usually then when a team in the playoff loses, remaining bowls go too them (except for the 2 teams play for the National Championship). 1570. Spen posted: 01.03.2014 - 1:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I had a dream recently in which I received a phone call from Juan Montoya. He told me that he'd been hired to drive for Swan Racing, and that they wanted me to be their new crew chief. I turned them down, though. 1571. Schroeder51 posted: 01.03.2014 - 2:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I had a dream in which Danica actually won the Daytona 500. After the race, FOX didn't bother interviewing any of the other top finishing drivers-instead, the whole post race show consisted of a three-hour long interview (without any commercial breaks) with Danica as they constantly gloated about it being the "greatest moment in the history of auto racing". You know what's sad? If Danica actually DOES win the Daytona 500, this dream might not end up being all that inaccurate...because good GRIEF, was FOX ever in love with her last year. I still remember all those times DW said he was impressed by how she was doing when she was running 5-6 laps off the pace. 1572. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.03.2014 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why does not a school UCF or a conference like the MAC, WAC or C-USA deserve a playoff bid? Are they not big enough? Players arne't good enough? UCF beat Baylor for crying outloud Zack. Baylor was SUPPOSED too win *allegedly.* How can a mid-major college be penalized for not playing bigger teams but teams similar too them? Please, Zack explain WHY they wouldn't..... although you say the rest of us would NEVER hear the end of it then why not include them so we don't need to go there in the first place." This is an easy one...UCF finished the season ranked #15. That means, using the ranking system we have now which all we have to work within, there would be 14 other teams more deserving of a chance to play in a 8 team playoff than UCF. Using the argument that they beat Baylor isn't a very good one because 1) upsets are bound to happen. Rules should be set by the norm, not the exception. 2) You never know what could have happened if a team played a different schedule than the one they did and it is completely impractical to have every team play each other. For example, Michigan State may have beaten Florida State...if they played them. They didn't. So Florida State rides an undefeated season the Championship while Michigan State goes to the Rose Bowl. We can't work with what may have happened had a different set of scenarios played out. We can only work with what we have and what we have was UCF finishing the regular season ranked #15. 1573. murb posted: 01.03.2014 - 3:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I actually don't recall ever having any racing dreams, which is strange since it's been a big part of my life for the past 15 or so years. Maybe one day... 1574. Jim Davis posted: 01.03.2014 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This is an easy one...UCF finished the season ranked #15." This kind of reasoning tends to become circular. "UCF is the AAC champion. Why are they only ranked 15th?" "Because the AAC is a weak conference." "What makes you think it is a weak conference?" "Because their champion is ranked 15th!" 1575. We need more Onion posted: 01.03.2014 - 4:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Heh, racing related dreams... I have only one (or let's say I remember only one) about NASCAR, I owned the Hall of Fame Racing team in it. I'm sure that I changed the car to #23 and hired Jean Alesi, but I remember nothing else. Probably it was still better than what Jeff Moorad did to them. 1576. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.03.2014 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""UCF is the AAC champion. Why are they only ranked 15th?" "Because the AAC is a weak conference." "What makes you think it is a weak conference?" "Because their champion is ranked 15th!"" Or you could bring up things like strength of schedule and how well the teams they played against performed in comparison with the rest of the Top 15... Nevertheless, once again, we can only base it on what we know within the system that we have and what we know within the system that we have is that UCF finished the season ranked #15 in every single poll. Perhaps we should ask those people why UCF is only ranked #15 and why they don't value their on the field performance as highly as say Auburn or Alabama or Michigan State? Regardless, I don't know why this became an issue to begin with. I already said I think a member of the Group of 5 (AAC, C-USA, Sun Belt MAC, MWC) should get a bid to the Playoffs, if it were 8 teams. It's just that you'd have a hard time convincing me UCF is more deserving of a shot at the title than Missouri. 1577. Jim Davis posted: 01.03.2014 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Nevertheless, once again, we can only base it on what we know within the system that we have and what we know within the system that we have is that UCF finished the season ranked #15 in every single poll." But I suspect UCF would be ranked much higher if a poll were taken today. And you do see the inconsistency here, right, Zack? We want a playoff system because we are dissatisfied with the polls. But if the polls are unsatisfactory why use them to determine who makes the playoffs? 1578. JG24FanForever posted: 01.03.2014 - 11:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Happy Birthday to Michael Schumacher. Tomorrow is Peter Steele's birthday. And my deceased brother's birthday is Sunday. 1579. TS1420 posted: 01.04.2014 - 12:34 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Horribad f'ing last three games for OSU. -Braxton Miller is a good athlete, but a piss poor & extremely overrated QB. Kenny Guiton should have been brought in after the three straight 3-and-outs in the 1st half. -The entire defense & Luke Fickell can go piss off and jump off a cliff. -Why is Philly Brown still allowed to field punts/kicks? He constantly screws up one way or another. All in all, the trend of shitty sports happenings still continues for me. Looking forward to The Patriots or Chargers winning the Super Bowl in a route next and a replay of the 2013 Daytona 500. 1580. Anonymous posted: 01.04.2014 - 4:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "All in all, the trend of shitty sports happenings still continues for me. Looking forward to The Patriots or Chargers winning the Super Bowl in a route next and a replay of the 2013 Daytona 500. " Chillax, dude. Remember these bowls games still register as the 2013 season. 1581. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.04.2014 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My Dad, a huge Clemson fan, is certainly happy. "I still remember all those times DW said he was impressed by how she was doing when she was running 5-6 laps off the pace" What is her excuse gonna be this year? She can't still just be "making laps, gaining experience". 1582. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.04.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "What is her excuse gonna be this year? She can't still just be "making laps, gaining experience"." Probably that SHR is paying more attention to Kevin Harvick and Kurt Busch in their first year at the team. 1583. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.04.2014 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess Danica needs too start winning 10 races a year to get people off her back (actually people would then say races are rigged, which happens anyway so never mind). Danica isn't a Robby Gordon, Tony Stewert or John Andretti. Those guys could jump in anything and win in it. The best thing Dancia can do is bring the car home in one piece (when she isn't patheticly paying people back). In lower series bring your car home in one peice works, low bugdets and can't spend much, in the upper series, you HAVE too perform at a highlevel. Danica isn't lost at plate races and Martinsville, 6 of 36 races. Not good enough. If her sponser left her in the Nationwide series, i don't think she'd be doing half bad. 1584. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.04.2014 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Goodness. It was 7-7. I went into the kitchen and had 2 slices of pizza. I come out and KC is up 24-7. 1585. Archie posted: 01.04.2014 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's only halftime in Indy, but K.C. is seemingly in control. I'm not much of a Chiefs fan and I'm pulling for Indy to come back and win -- lost cause though it may be -- but still I can't help but think how all year long the NFL media has told us that the Chiefs only succeeded this season because of their superb defense and excellent offensive line, and they have succeeded DESPITE having a mediocre QB (and certainly not *because* of him). Alex Smith has of course had an excellent season, which I thought would end today, but the irony of the year-long media bashing of Smith is that their description of a team with an outstanding D, the best O line in the NFL and a mediocre QB which the team succeeds in spite of..... is a perfect description of Smith's FORMER team. 1586. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.04.2014 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It's only halftime in Indy, but K.C. is seemingly in control. I'm not much of a Chiefs fan and I'm pulling for Indy to come back and win -- lost cause though it may be -- but still I can't help but think how all year long the NFL media has told us that the Chiefs only succeeded this season because of their superb defense and excellent offensive line, and they have succeeded DESPITE having a mediocre QB (and certainly not *because* of him). Alex Smith has of course had an excellent season, which I thought would end today, but the irony of the year-long media bashing of Smith is that their description of a team with an outstanding D, the best O line in the NFL and a mediocre QB which the team succeeds in spite of..... is a perfect description of Smith's FORMER team." Spoke too soon. See why we never say a team is in control? 1587. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.04.2014 - 7:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Chiefs team is definitely one of the worst playoff teams in the history of professional sports. They look like a 1-15 team that got super lucky. 1588. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.04.2014 - 7:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) KC went up by 28, so I went upstairs online for a while. I come down now and it is a 3 point game. 1589. David posted: 01.04.2014 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd say that touchdown was pretty Lucky. 1590. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.04.2014 - 7:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was Marty Schottenheimer a bad playoff coach or was he just stuck coaching cursed teams? (The Browns, Chiefs, and Chargers) 1591. David posted: 01.04.2014 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Colts have tied it. Unbelievable. And KC is trying to stop the bleeding. 1592. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.04.2014 - 8:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) EPIC 1593. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.04.2014 - 8:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FAIL 1594. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.04.2014 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In the 4000+ year history of sports, there have been few chokes this bad, if any. 1595. DB1995 posted: 01.04.2014 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i was watching the colts games and they were down 38-10, so i drove to get supper from McDonalds to support Mcmurray, and i come back and the Colts are down 31-41, i was gone like 20 minutes. 1596. DB1995 posted: 01.04.2014 - 8:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Debris caution at the Saint/Eagles game Lol 1597. Archie posted: 01.04.2014 - 9:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That's why I said "seemingly" in control, Nico. :-) I still can't believe the Colts came back and won that, though the general interpretation will of course be more that the Chiefs choked it away than Indy getting credit for winning it. And that's not unfair, seeing as how that overhyped K.C. defense simply stopped playing, but Andy Luck sure brought them back. Move over, Frank Reich! 1598. joey2448 posted: 01.05.2014 - 6:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Back to the topic of racing dreams, I've had a few in my life, although the only one I can remember right now was back in about 2003-04. I dreamed that I was watching the '03 Talladega spring race, but instead of the 27-car pileup happening in turns one and two, it was on the frontstretch tri-oval, and Joe Nemechek (driving the Hendrick 25 car) went flipping wildly and impacted the catchfence! After the crash happened, I wanted to keep watching the race, but my mom and sisters came in and wanted to watch a movie (we only had the one TV of course) and I was left panicking about missing the race! Lol! 1599. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.05.2014 - 10:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) I've had my own wild dreams... too many were fatality related :'( 1600. SpeedWorld97 posted: 01.05.2014 - 11:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) A few months before last year's Indy 500, I had a dream that Tony Kanaan made a daring 3-wide pass in turn 3 with only a handful of laps to go and went on to win the Indy 500 under caution after Marco Andretti and two other cars (I forget who else) crashed battling for second place. When TK actually won the Indy 500, I was quite amazed that my dream was pretty accurate (TK actually did make a 3-wide pass for the lead and won under caution). I also had a dream once that Sam Hornish Jr. won the 2010 Daytona 500 driving his 77 car. The race had been rain shortened, and he stayed out when all the leaders pitted before the rains came. 1601. TS1420 posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bungles bungle away another playoff game. Meanwhile Asshat Dbag Phillip Rivers advances in the playoffs... 1602. JG24FanForever posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Dalton sucks. 1603. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Meanwhile Asshat Dbag Phillip Rivers advances in the playoffs..." Oh yeah, the guy who married his JUNIOR high school sweetheart, has seven beautiful children and is a devout Catholic who attends Mass before each game is a total "asshat dbag". 1604. murb posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you really want a laugh, go to The Iron Sheik's Twitter page and see what he has to say about Andy Dalton. 1605. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:30 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Oh yeah, the guy who married his JUNIOR high school sweetheart, has seven beautiful children and is a devout Catholic who attends Mass before each game is a total "asshat dbag". " Doesn't mean much on the surface. It's what we CANNOT see in his HEART that counts. 1606. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Oh yeah, the guy who married his JUNIOR high school sweetheart, has seven beautiful children and is a devout Catholic who attends Mass before each game is a total "asshat dbag"." I probably shouldn't have exploded like that, but it just annoys me how easily people just throw around the "dbag" label. There's so much more to a man than what people see on TV and I just don't see how anybody who actually does research on Phillip Rivers can draw that conclusion. 1607. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Doesn't mean much on the surface. It's what we CANNOT see in his HEART that counts." Can't that apply both ways as I explained in 1606, I mean you don't know the guy. How can you make a bad judgment about him, if one can't conversely make a good judgment about him? 1608. TS1420 posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""Oh yeah, the guy who married his JUNIOR high school sweetheart, has seven beautiful children and is a devout Catholic who attends Mass before each game is a total "asshat dbag"." I probably shouldn't have exploded like that, but it just annoys me how easily people just throw around the "dbag" label. There's so much more to a man than what people see on TV and I just don't see how anybody who actually does research on Phillip Rivers can draw that conclusion." It annoys me when people tell me "oh don't hate on ______ because he/she goes to church, has a big family, donates money to charity, ect". There are tons of people that do those same things, but still act like total dipshits in an environment outside their family & church. I'm sure there are people you cannot stand that do good things too. 1609. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.05.2014 - 4:47 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "It annoys me when people tell me "oh don't hate on ______ because he/she goes to church, has a big family, donates money to charity, ect". There are tons of people that do those same things, but still act like total dipshits in an environment outside their family & church. I'm sure there are people you cannot stand that do good things too." Well I extended an olive branch, then you came back with that so now I'm sticking with what I originally said. You have no reason to negate the good things he does just because he can get a little heated in the heat of the game. 1610. 18fan posted: 01.05.2014 - 7:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This Colts season will end the way multiple seasons have before with a playoff loss at New England. 1611. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.05.2014 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) ""It annoys me when people tell me "oh don't hate on ______ because he/she goes to church, has a big family, donates money to charity, ect". There are tons of people that do those same things, but still act like total dipshits in an environment outside their family & church. I'm sure there are people you cannot stand that do good things too." Well I extended an olive branch, then you came back with that so now I'm sticking with what I originally said. You have no reason to negate the good things he does just because he can get a little heated in the heat of the game. " Zachary Shawn 1 - TS1420 0 I can say that both have valid points. I know a girl (we'll call her Derpette) who considers herself to be one of the nicest, holiest people on earth, but if you ask the other people at the campus ministries Derpette's the school's own official slut. It doesn't always work that way. However, I am not going to judge all people on account of Derpette or allow the heat of a moment to cause me to put someone in the same league as Derpette. I personally think Philip Rivers is overhyped and not really that great as a quarterback, but rather as a team leader. Nevertheless, I have no reason to label him "douchebag." Don't let the Ray Lewis's of the world cloud your views. 1612. joey2448 posted: 01.05.2014 - 8:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So cjs, your take on San Diego's chances against Denver next weekend? You were right about their late season surge. And likewise, DSFF, what about your Panthers against San Fran? 1613. jabber1990 posted: 01.05.2014 - 8:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) During "The Simpsons" they took stock footage from the fall Martinsville race and aired it during the episode Fox is opposed to explaining how to pirate movies from the internet so while Bart explained it to Homer they showed stock footage from that race. then they followed it up with more stock footage during the ending credits. 1614. JG24FanForever posted: 01.05.2014 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This has nothing to do with anything that anyone has been recently talking about. But, Jeff Gordon won his fifth fall Martinsville event over a span of 18 seasons with five different crew chiefs this last fall. Richard Petty got his 6 fall Martinsville wins in a 7 race span, with just Dale Inman. I would give Gordon the rank of "Face of Martinsville" for the accomplishment of 5 wins with 5 different crew chiefs over 18 seasons if it wasn't for the fact that Petty also has 9 spring Martinsville wins too. 1615. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.05.2014 - 11:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Niners are the team I didn't want us to see. They are peaking ar the right time. They can win on the road and are playoff tested over the past two seasons. I will be nervous all week. 1616. Spen posted: 01.06.2014 - 12:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) As a Niners fan, I don't really want to see that either. The Panthers are from my old home, but I've been cheering for the Niners since the late '70's. I've got divided loyalties in that match-up. 1617. DB1995 posted: 01.06.2014 - 2:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) All this football talk noone noticed Hornish is going to drive the 54 in like 6 races, as they said that Kyle Busch will unfortunately run a similar schedule 1618. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.06.2014 - 11:43 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^ I really wish Sam would get the WHOLE season and Kyle would focus on choking in the Chase, er i mean losing too Jimmie Johnson, oops what i REALLLLLY meant was winning a Cup championship. :-P 1619. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.06.2014 - 12:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Today's the day. 1620. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.06.2014 - 12:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The low in Auburn tonight is a whopping 9 degrees. I could be wrong, but I'm almost certain that's the coldest weather I've ever personally been in. I've been to Washington, DC four time in January, New York City in December, and skiing in Ohio and Pennsylvania in March and I don't think it's ever gotten as cold there as it will in Auburn, Alabama on this January evening. 1621. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.06.2014 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chase Elliott will drive the #9 Jr. Motorsports Chevrolet Camaro in the Nationwide Series with sponsorship from NAPA Auto Parts in 2014. 1622. David posted: 01.06.2014 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Greg Ives will be the crew chief. Ryan Pemberton will move to the #7. 1623. DB1995 posted: 01.06.2014 - 1:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bummer they took regans crew chief, i believe chase will win a few times, as for Hornish i know everyone thinks he can win 7 times but i cant be the only one who noticed the 54 car was visibly slower when Kyle Busch wasnt driving it, Kyle would win and dominate the week before then Joey Coulter gets in it and barely runs top 15, i really do not think driver input is that great at a 1.5 mile track, i think Gibbs only cared when Kyle was behind the wheel 1624. Sean posted: 01.06.2014 - 1:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hornish was supposedly offered the #10 IndyCar from Ganassi after Dario's retirement before Ganassi put Kanaan in the #10 and Briscoe in the #8. Perhaps it was just an inquiry and not a real offer (much like people said the Montoya to Furniture Row discussions were), but I thought it was Ganassi's way of responding hilariously to Penske signing Montoya out from under his nose (and I think this even more after the Briscoe signing, . It does seem odd since Ganassi fired Dan Wheldon after back-to-back 4th place points finishes/2 win seasons in 2007-2008 because he wasn't fast enough on road courses (relative to Dario), yet Hornish is an even worse road racer, and in an era with more competition. If this is true though, I can't even fathom why Hornish would turn down the best team in IndyCar (and one of the few that probably pays something approaching a Cup salary) to drive a handful of Nationwide starts. He'd say safety reasons and I guess I can see that since he has a family, but man, Montoya knew IndyCar is where he should be, and Hornish still seems like a bad fit for NASCAR, Nationwide championship contender or not. Allmendinger on the other hand is a better NASCAR driver than IndyCar driver at this point, so I think HE made the right choice. 1625. Sean posted: 01.06.2014 - 1:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) EDIT: (and I think this even more after the Briscoe signing, considering Briscoe's last full-time ride before Ganassi was with Penske, and I don't think he was the best driver for the ride). 1626. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.06.2014 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is supposed to get down to 6 degrees tonight here in Winston Salem. I know you folks in the Midwest who are facing double digit sub zero temperarures would love for it to be 6 degrees (and rightfully so) but this is big for us. This is the coldest it has been since January 1985. 1627. murb posted: 01.06.2014 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) David Reutimann and BK Racing are now parting ways. Alex Bowman tested for them at the Charlotte test and will also test for them at Daytona, so he's probably the odds on favorite to land that ride. If so, hopefully he can run pretty good and not be a wrecking ball like this team was last year. And hopefully Reutimann gets a ride in some series, if for nothing else, so 83andJoe can get a new number in his name, lol. And I'm not surprised about Chase Elliott running full time NNS. I think Hendrick has come out numerous times and said that he wants Chase in NNS as soon as possible. So I sort of saw this coming. Also, I'm no Chase fan, but his NAPA paint scheme for next year is seriously badass. 1628. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.06.2014 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) As for Indy Car and Hornish, I think he is being set up to fail like you guys mentioned. I hope TK does really well and has a career revival. I think it would be very cool if he won the Indy 500 for a second year in a row after finally breaking through. I remember when Dale was suddenly running second in the '99 Daytona 500 thinking "son of a gun, it took him forever to win this thing, now he is gonna win itback to back". It didn't happen, but the thought of it was cool. There is also something I can't help but wonder. We all know Dan Wheldon, Dario, and TK were great friends. Dan won Indy in 2011 and Dario in 2012. Tragically for Dan and sadly for Dario those would wind up being their last career wins. Then Tony made it 3 in a row for the trio last year. It looked as though that would be Tony's last win. But he got this opportunity and I hope he starts dominating again. In NASCAR, legends often have fitting final wins. The King got his last win at the track he made famous, Daytona. Pearson's final win was at Darlington which he owned. Dale's last win was at the track seemingly made just for him, Talladega, the ultimate balls-out track, in a thrilling finish nonetheless. And Bobby Allison, a big race master, with multiple wins in all the big races (Daytona 500, Southern 500, World 600, Winston 500, Firecracker 400) got his last win on the biggest stage, beating the brighest young star in the sport to the line, his son Davey. So here is a prediction from me about this upcoming season. Jeff Gordon will win the Brickyard 400 this year. And it will be his last win. Hendrick is pretty much done with Jeff. The investment The Felon made in 1992 has paid off in spades, now he is looking to make his other investments pay off. He has two major orders of business. He wants JJ to win his 7th, then 8th championship so he can have credit for that. And he wants June to be a big time race winner again which will be a tough task. And third is grooming Chase Elliott to be the next HMS driver. He is the perfect HMS driver. A wheel holder. No reservations about driving illegal equipment. Used to being in the best stuff. Not interesting at all. Able to just run somebody over and act like it was their fault. The kid is tailor made for "The Hendrick Way". 1629. Sean posted: 01.06.2014 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) DSFF, not sure what you mean about Hornish being "set up to fail" in IndyCar. If Ganassi's offer for him to replace Dario was legitimate, Sam turned it down. He was apparently gambling that he'd get a full-time Nationwide ride after his championship near-miss and it backfired. Hornish is not a good enough road racer to win an IndyCar championship at this point (I don't think even Kanaan is) considering the ridiculous number of street races at the moment, but I still believe he would be one of the top 500 threats, and unlike the Daytona 500 in NASCAR, the Indy 500 is usually considered more important than the series championship (well, except in 1996-99 when the top CART drivers weren't competing), so that would still justify a Hornish hire, especially now that Ganassi has 4 cars as compared to 2008 when he fired Wheldon and had only 2 cars, and could therefore afford to be way more selective. Kanaan was already signed to the Ganassi #8 car before Franchitti's injury IIRC, and all that changed was that Ganassi decided to move Kanaan to the #10 Target car, placing the new fourth driver in the #8. Ryan Briscoe is no more likely to win a championship at this point than Hornish (he has already choked his only shot in 2009 even worse than Will Power's two chokes in 2010 and 2012), so Hornish would still be a better choice than Briscoe, since I still think Hornish can win a 500 and I definitely think Briscoe can't. That's why I tend to think the Hornish offer was serious and not him "being set up to fail". Now maybe Kyle Busch is setting Hornish up to fail for some reason. That is perhaps more believable. I do however see your point about Gordon except I tend to think his last win will be at Martinsville, where his main rival Rusty Wallace also got his last win. Hard to really call Gordon and Earnhardt rivals considering they were closer personal friends and business partners and never seemed to anger each other much on the track like Jeff and Rusty did. The Gordon/Earnhardt rivalry lasted a year and a half (1995-Talladega 1996), if there was one, and the rivalry seemed to be more in the heads of the fans than the drivers themselves. That's why I called Rusty Gordon's main rival. The Brickyard is mainly about car setup, and the #24 is seldom set up as well as the #48 is, so I don't think Gordon will win another Brickyard. It'll be some driver track like Martinsville or Darlington, I think. But I definitely agree he probably has fewer than 3 wins left. 1630. Sean posted: 01.06.2014 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now I do think *part* of the reason Ganassi went after Hornish and Briscoe was to get back at Penske for signing Montoya, which I find kind of funny, but he wouldn't have considered either of them if they weren't qualified. I certainly think other drivers ARE more qualified or would do better than Briscoe, which makes me wonder... The other weird thing on the Ganassi team that recently emerged was that Sage Karam, last year's Indy Lights champion and participant in the 4-wide IMS photo finish, was hired to drive one of Ganassi's cars in the 24 Hours of Daytona (the car that the perennial championship contenders Scott Pruett/Memo Rojas and Jamie McMurray are driving) and Charlie Kimball wasn't placed on either of Ganassi's teams. Briscoe had a commitment with a different sports car team, replacing Jordan Taylor at Corvette Racing. I don't know what this means for Kimball in the long run. I want to see him stay at Ganassi. While he wasn't really qualified to be there his first two years, last year he really took a jump up, won the 24 Hours of Daytona, won at Mid-Ohio, had some of the year's most awesome passes, and outperformed Dario straight up. But I also think it would be really cool to see Ganassi take a chance on Karam as well (would have rather seen it than Briscoe). Although Pruett and Rojas have more than enough 24 Hours of Daytona wins, I wouldn't mind that car winning just for McMurray and Karam's sake... But I am principally going to be rooting for Jordan Taylor, who has the most awesome personality in American racing at the moment (yes, even more than James Hinchcliffe and Josef Newgarden). The IndyCar and sports car drivers coming up are all awesome and hilarious, while most of the NASCAR drivers are very dull. In addition to winning the final Grand-Am Daytona Prototype championship for his legendary father Wayne Taylor's team, he's put up the most hilarious parody music videos and is funnier than "Weird Al" Yankovic has been in the past decade, that's for sure. Just look up "Jordan Loves Stickers" on YouTube and look at his Twitter account (Jordan10Taylor), where he puts up all these 5-10 second videos, every single one hilarious. You'll thank me. If today's NASCAR drivers were as entertaining as Taylor or Hinchcliffe, I would not be complaining. Hell, usually I complain about drivers landing marquee rides with parents' teams, but considering Jordan has become a dominant force in sports car racing and has the most engaging personality to boot, I can hardly complain. And considering Jordan is one of the leading factory Cheyv drivers at the moment, I really, really, really, REALLY want to see him get a shot as a road course ringer for a Chevy team in Cup in the next few seasons. Ron Fellows, Boris Said, and Max Papis are getting pretty old, you know. We need fresher blood and Papis is getting old. I haven't followed sports car racing enough lately, but this one hilarious uber-nerd kid is going to hook me into watching all the merged series races, and I especially like that the United SportsCar championship is BURSTING with talent at the moment... 1631. Sean posted: 01.06.2014 - 6:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Papis is getting old" I actually meant to say Papis is getting annoying. Yeah, he may have a memorable personality, but it isn't as likable as Jordan Taylor's... Not to mention I'd take Taylor over him even in a sports car at this point talent-wise. 1632. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.06.2014 - 7:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This worked out a little too well for NAPA. At least they decided to stay in NASCAR, I assume they'll follow Chase if/when he goes to Cup. 1633. Eric posted: 01.06.2014 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with Sean in terms of the rivalry between Gordon and Earnhardt rivalry seemed to be more in the heads of the fans than the drivers themselves. Matter of fact CJS3872 still thought the last time he was on this site that Dale Sr. and Jeff Gordon had a such big rivalry that Dale Jr. wouldn't work with Jeff Gordon as a teammate. That meant CJS3872 made the rivalry between Dale Sr. and Jeff Gordon much bigger than it was. For years I thought the Rivalry between Dale Sr. and Gordon was overrated. To me, Geoff Bodine and Dale Earnhardt was a better rivalry than Gordon and Dale Sr. Bodine and Earnhardt was in their primes in that rivalry. Gordon and Dale Rivalry to me had the problem of Dale Sr. not being in his prime from Summer Talladega 1996 to his 2001 Daytona 500 death. Dale was not quite the same driver after the Summer Talladega 1996 crash due to the injuries Dale had that included a neck injury that didn't get surgery before the end of the 1999 season. The other problem with the Dale Sr. and Jeff Gordon rivalry was Dale almost 42 when the 1993 Daytona 500 started compare to Jeff being only 21 at the time as a rookie driver. Drivers that age difference wouldn't have a long rivalry since when the rookie hits his prime, the veteran driver would be on his downside of his cup career very shortly since Dale Sr. was 20 years old when Jeff Gordon was born. I remembered hearing on wind tunnel years ago that Dale Earnhardt Sr fans and Jeff Gordon fans had no idea that Dale Sr. and Jeff Gordon owned Chase Authentics at the time. That meant Dale Sr. and Jeff Gordon made a lot of money owning Chase Authentics because of their fans made the rivalry bigger than it actually was. I even recalled Ed Hinton mentioning in the past the rivalry between Dale Sr. and Jeff Gordon wasn't a true rivalry in his eyes and said the rivalry really was between the fans of Jeff Gordon and Dale Sr. 1634. Eric posted: 01.06.2014 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree that Jeff Gordon doesn't have many wins left. I say Jeff Gordon is going to retire in 2016 or 2017. Rick right now is getting Chase Elliott ready to replace Jeff Gordon. I think Chase needs 2 seasons in Nationwide. There are two more drivers that I don't think many wins left in them. I am taking about Tony Stewart and Greg Biffle. Based on what I saw out of Biffle last year, he is on his downside of cup career with him being 44 years old now. The other thing is Biffle had a bad year in 2011 at the age of 41, but comeback strong in 2012. That means one of these years Biffle isn't going to bounce back from a down season. Stewart last year struggled for most of the season before he broke his leg. A 42 to going on 43 year old driver coming back from a broken leg is a tough task. 1635. joey2448 posted: 01.06.2014 - 8:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Man, I got a feeling about Auburn tonight. My head is saying Florida State will win, but I have a gut feeling Auburn will get it, and I'm not just saying that to please Zackary Shawn. "...I don't think Gordon will win another Brickyard. It'll be some driver track like Martinsville or Darlington, I think. But I definitely agree he probably has fewer than 3 wins left." I've already said this before, but I feel that Gordo will end his career with 91 wins, which is the same amount that Michael Schumacher ended with, which is the F1 record. It would certainly be appropriate, since both drivers careers kinda parallel each other. 1636. murb posted: 01.06.2014 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I actually meant to say Papis is getting annoying." I agree. I still have respect for him because he really was a hell of a driver back in his prime, but nowadays (really since he's tried to become a Nascar driver) he's just turned into a cartoon character. Not only that, but it also gets annoying how he is involved in a fight with someone in EVERY Nascar race he runs it seems like. And as for Gordon, I think he has about 5 more wins at the very most left in him. If he is going to drive for another two or three years like it seems like, then I can see him having one more revitalizing 2011 style year where he gets multiple wins. So overall, when he's said and done, I think he'll have about 91 or so total wins, like Joey implied. 1637. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.06.2014 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well this Florida State blowout is going exactly as predicted. Oh wait...no it's not. Auburn's leading 21-3. Hahaha. WAR DAMN EAGLE! 1638. JG24FanForever posted: 01.06.2014 - 9:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I hope you people aren't Florida State fans. 1639. joey2448 posted: 01.06.2014 - 10:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If you are able to, I highly recommend checking out ESPN2 right now. They went ALL out on their coverage and analysis of the BCS title game! 1640. Jarrett88fan posted: 01.06.2014 - 10:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey, I have been watching the ESPN 2 Title Talk. Mmmmmmmm maybe Fox Fox Sports ould do the same with the Daytona 500. Go all out Fox Sports. 1641. Sean posted: 01.06.2014 - 11:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "he really was a hell of a driver back in his prime" Good, not great. I'll admit Papis was a fairly legendary sports car driver and him gaining 50 seconds in the last hour of the 1996 24 Hours of Daytona was huge. However, I really think he was an overrated sports car driver in general and doesn't live up to the GIANTS of the '90s/2000s: James Weaver, Scott Pruett, Butch Leitzinger, Elliott Forbes-Robinson, James Weaver, Wayne Taylor, Max Angelelli, Klaus Graf, Lucas Luhr, Jorg Bergmeister, Ron Fellows, hell maybe even Scott Sharp... And that's not even counting the much greater European giants like Tom Kristensen and Allan McNish. Papis was a very good sports car driver and I'd probably even say legend, but OF the legends of that era, he had one of the least meaty careers: that one killer drive in 1996 and his win in 2002. And okay, he did manage to win 3 races in CART, and did manage to win on both an oval and a road course, but both of his 2001 road course wins were complete strategy flukes. While the 2001 CART season had one of the best overall fields in IndyCar history, he tended to back into his wins in much the same way as other overrated drivers like Christian Fittipaldi and Robby Gordon (Robby at least had more weight to his career due to his ability to win in many different kinds of car). In this sense, somebody like Bryan Herta comes out looking a little better because he could at least dominate a race by himself (okay, only at Laguna Seca, but then he proved he could also do it on ovals once in a while in the IRL). And then despite Papis finishing 6th in points with 2 wins in '01 (and despite that he was admittedly as fast as anyone at Michigan and Fontana, but I think it's mostly that the Rahal cars had such a huge advantage), Bobby Rahal fired him for wrecking Kenny Brack out of two races and largely being responsible for Brack losing the title to Gil de Ferran. Papis is way historically overrated in general, as is Boris Said in my opinion. They were very good, borderline great, drivers who had awesome personalities. But now that they're coming up on 50, driving more ridiculously, and seeming to lose the charm they once had, it's hard to care about either of them. Cup teams hiring younger road course ringers like Ryan Dalziel (he almost got Alex Popow a Grand-Am championship single-handedly, and NASCAR fans should remember how bad Popow was in Nationwide!) and Jordan Taylor would make the road course races so much more exciting... 1642. Sean posted: 01.06.2014 - 11:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Replace my second James Weaver with Geoff Brabham. 1643. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.07.2014 - 12:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh well. 1644. DB1995 posted: 01.07.2014 - 12:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Losing by 3 isnt that bad when you were playing against a team favored so highly, but damn i wanted that so bad. The VOLS will get it next year lol! 1645. JG24FanForever posted: 01.07.2014 - 12:12 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Top 15 greatest F1 drivers, with a huge emphasis on the circuits and cars of the 50's and 60's: -1. Jim Clark---He won the 1963 Belgian Grand Prix by an all-time record margin of 5 and a half minutes. Won the Pole in the 1967 German Grand Prix by an all-time record 9.4 seconds. -2. Michael Schumacher---The most ever wins in the wet with 15. The most ever wins in the wet without traction control. -3. Jackie Stewart---Never had an elite ride and won 3 World Championships and 3 German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring Nordschliefe, including the 1968 race by 4 minutes in monsoon weather. -4. Juan Manuel Fangio---24 wins in 51 starts. 4 straight title's between 1954-57 with a different team in each season. -5. Ayrton Senna---13 wet weather victory's in a 19 wet race span. -5. Alain Prost---Senna had 19 fastest laps to Alain Prost 41. -7. Sebastian Vettel---A bit overrated, but great nontheless. Loses points for driving in a neutered and weakened era. -8. Fernando Alonso---A shot at the title in the last race 5 times with 3 different teams in his career. The only driver to ever take Schumacher for a title on equal terms. -9. Kimi Raikkonen---Won Suzuka in 2005 from 17th. Vettel has never won from below 3rd on the grid. 10. Alberto Ascari---The original Sebastian Vettel. 11. Stirling Moss---The greatest driver to never win the world championship. Witness his wins in Germany and Monaco with inferior machinery in 1961. 12. Jack Brabham---3 time World Champ, and the only driver to win it in his own car. 13. Graham Hill---The original King of Monaco with 3 straight and 5 total to go with 2 World Championships. 14. Nigel Mansell---The first Adrian Newey champion. 15. Lewis Hamilton---The Kyle Busch of F1, but with a title. The current best overtaker in F1 1646. David posted: 01.07.2014 - 12:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm sorry for your loss, Zackary Shawn. 1647. JG24FanForever posted: 01.07.2014 - 12:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "-1. Jim Clark---He won the 1963 Belgian Grand Prix by an all-time record margin of 5 and a half minutes. Won the Pole in the 1967 German Grand Prix by an all-time record 9.4 seconds." He may have drove for Lotus only, but Lotus was incredibly unreliable and he raced in an era where the driver counted for way more than the car. Clark won the final three races of his career and surpassed Fangio's record of 24 grand prix wins in his final race, on new year's day in 1968 at Kyalami. 1648. Jarrett88fan posted: 01.07.2014 - 12:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What a finish to the College Football FBS Div. 1 season!!! I hate to mention it but the three major NASCAR Series' in 2013 had nothing on College Football in 2013. Sorry Zackary Shawn. However, this does set Auburn up for another run next year. At least you guys won the SEC Championship and were in-state champs... rather ironic Chris Davis scored the kick-six in the Iron Bowl and got called for a pass interference call that set up FSU's go-ahead touchdown at the end. 1649. We need more Onion posted: 01.07.2014 - 8:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "14. Nigel Mansell---The first Adrian Newey champion." Says a lot. Tbh, he dominated in a year, when cars drove themselves. Throttle control, seriously? Certainly great driver with many wins, HUGE balls and not too many luck, but not top 20. Gilles Villeneuve was surely better. 1650. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 01.07.2014 - 10:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gilles Villeneuve would undoubtedly have been a great driver but like Davey Allison we only got to see a tiny fraction of his career. It is unfair to rank Villeneuve much higher as the course of history would unquestionable have been different, but we can't just rewrite history. If Senna had not been killed he would have gone on to win at least 2 more championships with Williams and scored 60-65 wins which would in turn have reduced Schumacher's tally of wins and championships. He probably would have scored 60-70 wins and maybe 6 championships which would probably be a more accurate reflection of his position within the sport. The current era is much stronger at the front of the field than during Schumacher's era, he destroyed the opposition when 2 teams and consequently 4 drivers were usually in a league of their own. No one is going to tell me Coulthard,Hill, Barrichello,Villeneuve and Ralf Schumacher are better than Alonso, Hamilton,Raikonnen, Webber and Button 1651. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 01.07.2014 - 10:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also you must be careful when rating the drivers in the fifties due to drivers swapping cars with teammates which helped Fangio's win total. I am in no way denying Fangio's genius behind the wheel(or in the garage, he is used to donate some of his winnings to his mechanics to keep them motivated) but all things must be considered. I would personally regard Clark as the greatest driver to ever live, he would have been unbeatable if the Lotus was as bulletproof as today's cars. The Lotus may have been fast, but Jim Clark was faster as far as I am concerned. 1652. Sean posted: 01.07.2014 - 12:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "No one is going to tell me Coulthard,Hill, Barrichello,Villeneuve and Ralf Schumacher are better than Alonso, Hamilton,Raikonnen, Webber and Button" Alonso/Hamilton/Raikkonen > Coulthard/Hill/Villeneuve = Button > Barrichello = Webber > R. Schumacher In other words, I don't think Webber and Button are any better than the drivers you're trashing. Having said, Schumacher in his peak years competed against only one driver probably at the Alonso/Hamilton/Raikkonen level and that was Hakkinen. 1653. Sean posted: 01.07.2014 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know where to put Montoya in all this, since you listed Ralf Schumacher and Montoya was better than him, especially because Montoya never seemed to live up to his potential in F1 (or in NASCAR)... But even as an F1 driver, I think I rate Montoya above Barrichello and Webber and in the same class with the Coulthards, Hills, Villeneuves, and Buttons... Yeah, Kimi Raikkonen waxed him at McLaren but I never claimed Kimi wasn't better than all those guys... 1654. JG24FanForever posted: 01.07.2014 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Tbh, he dominated in a year, when cars drove themselves. Throttle control, seriously? Certainly great driver with many wins, HUGE balls and not too many luck, but not top 20. Gilles Villeneuve was surely better." I realized after making the list that Villeneuve,Lauda and Hakkinen deserved to be ahead of Mansell, I simply rushed the list a little. Here is a revision: -1. Jim Clark -2. Michael Schumacher -3. Jackie Stewart -4. Ayrton Senna -4. Alain Prost -6. Juan Manuel Fangio -7. Sebastian Vettel -8. Fernando Alonso -9. Kimi Raikkonen 10. Stirling Moss 11. Gilles Villeneuve (His wins at Monaco and Jarama in 1981 are considered the most unlikely wins in F1 history.) 12. Alberto Ascari 13. Jack Brabham 14. Niki Lauda 15. Lewis Hamilton 16. Graham Hill 17. Mika Hakkinen 18. Nelson Piquet 19. Ronnie Peterson 20. Mario Andretti 1655. We need more Onion posted: 01.07.2014 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just noticed something else: "Jackie Stewart---Never had an elite ride" Erm.. the Matra MS80 was absolutely superior to other cars of the '69 season, bridging the gap between the cars of the 60's and the 70's. Maybe the Lotus 49Bs were just as fast, but the Matra had much, much better reliability, Lotus's lead driver Rindt had more car failures than the whole Matra team. But, your list is quite good, I think only Villeneuve is missing and the late 2000's drivers are overrated a bit. (Maybe Lauda or Piquet too, but I, myself think that they are total a douchebag and a guy with Franchitti-esque luck to get championships) 1656. We need more Onion posted: 01.07.2014 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The second incarnation is great, a proper list. If you care about it, you can find my top 10 list in post #479. 1657. murb posted: 01.07.2014 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Swan Racing finally announced their car numbers and whatnot. Cole Whitt will drive the #26 car (with Randy Cox as crew chief), and Parker Kligerman will drive the #30 car (with Steve Lane as crew chief). 1658. JG24FanForever posted: 01.07.2014 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you care about it, you can find my top 10 list in post #479." "Best of the best: 1.Alberto Ascari 2.Jim Clark 3.Michael Schumacher 4.Juan Fangio 5.Gilles Villeneuve 6.Sebastian Vettel 7.Alain Prost 8.Ayrton Senna (Deal with it) 9.Jack Brabham 10.Graham Hill +1 Mario Andretti (GOAT imo, but not done enough in F1 to be in the top 10)" I like that your man enough to list Ascari in first and Villeneuve in fifth, despite the fact that people would berate you for not being cliche. 1659. JG24FanForever posted: 01.07.2014 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I guess I should make a greatest NHRA drivers list: -1. John force (The Grand Master of the NHRA.) -2. Don Garlits (The mythical "Big Daddy") -3. Don Prudhomme (The legendary "Snake") -4. Tony Schumacher -5. Bob Glidden -6. Lee Shepherd -7. Shirley Muldowney -8. Joe Amato -9. Kenny Bernstein 10. Grumpy Jenkins 11. Larry Dixon 12. Frank Manzo This is probably greek to most of you. 1660. JG24FanForever posted: 01.07.2014 - 4:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Erm.. the Matra MS80 was absolutely superior to other cars of the '69 season, bridging the gap between the cars of the 60's and the 70's. Maybe the Lotus 49Bs were just as fast, but the Matra had much, much better reliability, Lotus's lead driver Rindt had more car failures than the whole Matra team." Stewart flattered that car a bit, didn't he? He won the first two races of the season from fourth on the grid. His teammate finished fifth in the points with only a few podiums and an 8.4 average qualifying position to Stewart's 2.6 average start. The car was reliable but definitely not the superior car that season. Stewart was simply that good. 1661. JG24FanForever posted: 01.07.2014 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gilles Villeneuve tribute by Murray Walker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3Zdk2OW6Hk Jim Clark: The Quiet Champion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v62StJvxLu8 Please watch these video's and learn a little about these great drivers and F1. 1662. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.07.2014 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) NASCAR announced today that Todd Parrott has been reinstated. 1663. The Long Shot posted: 01.08.2014 - 11:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In silly season news, Brian Scott will attempt the Daytona 500 in the #33 Shore Lodge Chevrolet for Richard Childress Racing. Also, Chad Boat will run full-time in the Nationwide Series for Billy Boat Motorsports. 1664. David posted: 01.08.2014 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^The last statement of the above post is incorrect. Boat is running part-time. 1665. DB1995 posted: 01.08.2014 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty Wallace to test the #2 miller Lite Ford Fusion for Brad Keselowski, i do not know for how many days 1666. David posted: 01.08.2014 - 5:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In the breaking-news-if-you-care-about-it department: NASCAR has changed the manufacturer's point system. The previous system awarded points to manufacturers based on how they finished relative to each other on a 9-6-4-3 basis. The new system was standardized with the current points system (bleh), and the highest-finishing car for each manufacturer will earn the points allotted to that position for that respective nameplate, plus any bonuses for leading laps. At first when reading the article, I thought this system would count points for ALL cars of a manufacturer (which has been done before). This would be an awful idea, because then the championship would simply go to the manufacturer with the most entries in each race (Chevrolet). 1967 is an excellent example; Plymouths won 31 races, but Ford had more entries and won the title, despite having only 10 wins. I'm almost 100% sure that that was the last year for that system. I actually like this change, even though it is based on the joke points system used today. 1667. NicoRosbergFan Trolling as Satan posted: 01.08.2014 - 6:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Damn! I wanted post 1666! 1668. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.08.2014 - 11:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty testing the #2 Miller Lite Ford should be a nice blast from the past for him. 1669. David posted: 01.08.2014 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, in a blast from the past, Dave Blaney is running the #77 Ford this year for Humphrey Smith Racing. 1670. The Long Shot posted: 01.09.2014 - 12:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I want to revive this topic because I think we had a number of people who were seriously interested in it: the Racing Reference YouTube channel. I was thinking that there's no reason why we can't set the channel up and get a basic idea of what it would consist of before the NASCAR season starts next month. (I wouldn't be able to participate in the round-table discussions, but I would be able to upload videos of my own and work as a "channel moderator".) Are there people who would still be interested in making this idea a reality? 1671. The Long Shot posted: 01.09.2014 - 9:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Teresa Earnhardt has apparently dropped her financial stake in the Earnhardt Ganassi Racing organization. From now on, the team will revert back to its original name before merging with DEI in 2009: Chip Ganassi Racing with Felix Sabates. 1672. The Sound posted: 01.09.2014 - 9:42 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Athlon Preview is releasing on the 21st! Of course, I must decide which of the three covers to purchase: Junior, Johnson, or Kenseth? I really do not care for any of the drivers that much. Sad news about this year's edition, though: from the pre-order site, the traditional 13 touch questions feature appears to have been reduced to 5 questions. That was my favorite part! Update on the NR2003 sim will be coming later today. 1673. Smiff_2 posted: 01.09.2014 - 10:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, Steve Letarte is moving from the top of Junior's pit box to the broadcast booth after the 2014 season. 1) Who will replace him? and 2) That completes NBC's booth lineup, which as we all know, will now consist of Rick Allen, Jeff Burton, and Letarte. 1674. David posted: 01.09.2014 - 10:45 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Athlon Preview is releasing on the 21st! Of course, I must decide which of the three covers to purchase: Junior, Johnson, or Kenseth?" Out of the three, I'd buy Kenseth in a second, in spite of my being a Gordon fan. ;) "the traditional 13 touch questions feature appears to have been reduced to 5 questions. That was my favorite part!" That IS disappointing. "Update on the NR2003 sim will be coming later today." Awesome. 1675. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.09.2014 - 10:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Rusty! 1676. David posted: 01.09.2014 - 10:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Wow, Steve Letarte is moving from the top of Junior's pit box to the broadcast booth after the 2014 season." Steve Letarte...in the booth? Well, if you wanted "new blood" for NBC's broadcasts, then I guess you got your wish. 1677. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.09.2014 - 11:58 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I haven't been on this site that long and I normally don't make that many posts, but I have to say something now. I'm not even what you could technically call a Junior fan(although he is probably my favorite at this point, although that is subject to change), but this news about Steve Letarte seriously pisses me off. Just completely out of the blue, with no prior warning whatsoever, Junior is (for now) without a crew chief for next year, and in the meantime will be in a awkward partial lame duck year (which I am not saying he can't have success despite, but obviously hurts his case).It looked like Junior finally had a good crew chief who he had chemistry with, they really hit their stride(although they were still winless, which is big) at the end of last year and I was really excited about this season for him, but now it appears that's out the window. There's so many questions this raises, but the biggest one is why would Steve, who's only 34 and been a crew chief for not even a decade yet, just suddenly decide he doesn't want to do it anymore? Did he just decide that he couldn't handle the pressure? I don't know of any other good reason why this decision was made(although I will admit I can be a bit naïve about this kind of stuff, maybe it's something I am missing). Had to get that off my chest. On a more positive note, it's great to hear about the new Athlon magazine, I look forward to it every year, although it's disappointing to see that they are cutting down on the tough questions part. 1678. Woodbridge posted: 01.09.2014 - 12:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's too bad Dave Blaney's new team will probably S&P everything but superspeedways and road courses. 1679. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.09.2014 - 1:08 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Well that took all of 6 minutes in NASCAR's first telecast of 2014. Yocum to Austin Dillon: "...your grandfather's #3" Me: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! 1680. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.09.2014 - 1:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Dale Jr could be in danger of having an off year in 2014 due to Letarte's sudden leave. Fact is, he and Steve had good chemistry (it's just that Dale Jr couldn't close the deal in races he led a lot of laps in). Actually, right now, there's no telling how 2014 will go. The only thing we know for sure is that the Dillon brothers will be hyped like hell as always. 1681. murb posted: 01.09.2014 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm actually not surprised about Letarte becoming a broadcaster (he did a couple of the Prelude To The Dream broadcasts as a field reporter, so I sort of figured that maybe he had an interest in broadcasting), but I am surprised about the timing of this move. I guess NBC really wanted him. 1682. murb posted: 01.09.2014 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, John Darby is getting replaced!! Richard Buck will be the new Cup Series Director. Buck is a former Indy 500 winning crew chief apparently, so he surely knows quite a bit about motorsports. I like this move. Anytime one of Brainless Brian's stooges gets replaced, it's a good time. 1683. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.09.2014 - 5:57 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "There's so many questions this raises, but the biggest one is why would Steve, who's only 34 and been a crew chief for not even a decade yet, just suddenly decide he doesn't want to do it anymore? Did he just decide that he couldn't handle the pressure? I don't know of any other good reason why this decision was made(although I will admit I can be a bit naïve about this kind of stuff, maybe it's something I am missing)." Maybe he didn't want to be relegated to being the 48's R&D team for the rest of his career. 1684. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.09.2014 - 6:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You may very well have hit the nail on the head, CHP. 1685. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.09.2014 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Darby will still be in NASCAR but in a different role. A younger person up near the top isn't always a bad thing. 1686. Anonymous posted: 01.09.2014 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There are 4 options I think Rick Hendrick is looking at for Dale's crew chief for 2015 in any order since I don't see Rick Hendrick picking a person outside of his organization: 1.) Kenny Francis - While this sounds unlikely, there actually is logic why such a move could be made. Kasey Kahne struggled last year and only went in the chase thanks to his 2 wins. It seemed like the 5 team wasn't clicking for most of the season after the Bristol night race. If the 5 team struggles like the did, I think Rick would do a crew chief change. What makes this a long shot if the 5 team struggles is Kenny Francis isn't known to share notes with other teams in the same organization and that is something I don't think Chad wants. 2.)Alan Gustafson - this actually would make sense despite it being a bad mix for Dale Jr. The fact is Rick is preparing Chase Elliott to take over for Jeff Gordon. Rick knows Jeff is on his downside of his career despite being competitive. I think it is possible that 2015 might be Jeff's last full season or 2016 for that matter. The fact is I think Rick wants a new crew chief for the 24 when Chase Elliott takes over the ride. 3.) Ron Malec - I think this is unlikely, but it does make sense. Ron is Jimmie's car chief. Ron makes sense if he's picked for to be Dale Jr.'s crew chief since Ron and Chad know each other with there being no problem of note sharing unlike what would happen if Kenny Francis becomes Dale Jr.'s crew chief. 4.) One of the crew chiefs at Jr. Motorsports- This could make sense although unlikely for Dale Jr. Dale Jr. needs an experienced cup crew chief at this point of his cup career. This is a type of a movie that would make more sense with Chase Elliott. The crew members of Jr. Motorsports are being used as a way to be prepared for cup since Rick has a share of ownership of Jr. Motorsports. 1687. David posted: 01.10.2014 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In the meaningless news department today: Penske Racing has been renamed Team Penske. Carry on. 1688. murb posted: 01.10.2014 - 2:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol at Rusty cutting faster laps than Brad. 1689. Canadianfan posted: 01.10.2014 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F1 just released the driver numbers. 1* Sebastian Vettel, Red Bull 3 Daniel Ricciardo, Red Bull 44 Lewis Hamilton, Mercedes 6 Nico Rosberg, Mercedes 14 Fernando Alonso, Ferrari 7 Kimi Raikkonen, Ferrari 8 Romain Grosjean, Lotus 13 Pastor Maldonado, Lotus 22 Jenson Button, McLaren 20 Kevin Magnussen, McLaren 27 Nico Hulkenberg, Force India 11 Sergio Perez, Force India 99 Adrian Sutil, Sauber 21 Esteban Gutierrez, Sauber 25 Jean-Eric Vergne, Toro Rosso 26 Daniil Kvyat, Toro Rosso 19 Felipe Massa, Williams 77 Valtteri Bottas, Williams 17 Jules Bianchi, Marussia TBA Max Chilton, Marussia TBA, Caterham TBA, Caterham *For the duration of his F1 career, Vettel chose number 5 1690. We need more Onion posted: 01.10.2014 - 6:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "13 Pastor Maldonado" Lol 1691. Anonymous posted: 01.10.2014 - 6:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""13 Pastor Maldonado" Lol " Exactly... how long until dipwad joins Moises Solana? 1692. murb posted: 01.10.2014 - 7:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It sounds like a few guys are gonna try some drafting at the test in a little while, so that should get interesting. 1693. The Long Shot posted: 01.10.2014 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nationwide and Truck are doing away with single-car qualifying, starting at Speedweeks. No word on whether this will mean group qualifying sessions, qualifying races, or F1-style qualifying. Changes will also be coming to Cup qualifying, though those have not been announced. 1694. murb posted: 01.10.2014 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, nevermind about the drafting practice. 1695. The Long Shot posted: 01.10.2014 - 8:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Preseason Thunder entry lists have been released for Nationwide and Truck. Some notes: Nationwide: --Carl Long in the #13 for Carl Long Racing --Tanner Berryhill in the #17 for Vision Racing --Ryan Blaney in the #22 for Team Penske --Ryan Ellis in the #23 for Rick Ware Racing --Matt Carter/Harrison Rhodes in the #28 for Carl Long Racing --Dylan Kwasniewski in the #31 for Turner-Scott Motorsports --Matt DiBenedetto in the #37 for Vision Racing --Jamie Dick in the #55 for Viva Motorsports --Derrike Cope in the #73 for Cope/Keller Racing (or whatever the team is called; they seem to change names every year) --Chad Boat in the #84 for Billy Boat Racing --Bobby Gerhart in the #85 for Gerhart Racing --Bill Elliott in the #88 for JR Motorsports --David Ragan in the #98 for Biagi-denBeste Racing (he will run that car in the Daytona race as well) Truck: --Jimmy Weller/Michel Disdier/Todd Peck in the #07 for SS-Green Light Racing --Ross Chastain in the #13 for ThorSport Racing --Tyler Reddick in the #19 for Brad Keselowski Racing --Ryan Ellis/Clay Rogers in the #28 for FDNY Racing --Mason Mingus in the #35 for WinTron Racing --Kyle Busch in the #51 for Kyle Busch Motorsports --Sean Corr in the #82 for Empire Racing Other news and notes from around the series: --Joey Gase will return to Means Racing in 2014 with plans to attempt a full schedule. The team is still attempting to secure full-time sponsorship, but has garnered Db Sales Company and Donate Life to sponsor Gase for select races next year. --Ryan Ellis will run a "substantial" schedule with Rick Ware Racing next season with a sponsor yet to be announced. Looks as though Robert Richardson's R3 Motorsports team has officially folded. --Blake Koch will run full-time next season for Tri-Star Motorsports, presumably taking over the #44 ride that was driven by Hal Martin/Chad Hackenbracht/Cole Whitt last year. Sponsor announcements will come at a later date. It was also reported that both Mike Bliss and Eric McClure will return to the team next season. --Jeffrey Earnhardt will drive the #4 JD Motorsports Chevrolet full-time next year. Landon Cassill will move to the #01, while Daryl Harr will presumably drive a third car on a part-time basis, potentially with some other drivers as well. 1696. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.11.2014 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is a not so useful but intesting/scary piece of info: Tony has new pet. A pet pig, named "Porkchop." DSFF do you have any meds in that paramedic kit of yours, i need something too the pain away........... or induce coma. 1697. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.11.2014 - 12:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Here is a not so useful but intesting/scary piece of info: Tony has new pet. A pet pig, named "Porkchop." DSFF do you have any meds in that paramedic kit of yours, i need something too the pain away........... or induce coma. " Why didn't he choose "Spider Pig"? 1698. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.11.2014 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm trying to run simulations at Daytona in Nascar 2005 (Chase for the Cup). Do any of you know how to get the AI to run the silver and black test cars also? 1699. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.11.2014 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Forgot to give my picks for this weekend (I was 2-2 last weekend) Seattle over NO. Can't win two outdoor games in a row. San Fran over Carolina. I hope I'm wrong, the Niners are peaking, Panthers offense too shaky. Indy over NE. Won't be freezing, the Pats are depleted. San Diego over Denver. Peyton Manning in the playoffs. 1700. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.11.2014 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why didn't he choose "Spider Pig"?" "Spider Pig, Spider Pig. Does whatever a spider pig does." Homer Simpson I don't know NRF, i really don't know. He could have choosen "Bacon" for all i care. Marvin, Wilson, Greg, Phil, i could go on. 1701. jabber1990 posted: 01.11.2014 - 5:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Do any of you know how to get the AI to run the silver and black test cars also?" I think its random. I also am unaware if the AI can automatically use them or if you have to unlock them for the AI to run them, I forget, I either don't care or I cheat and unlock the thunder plates since its a pain to play all day and unlock the "2003" scheme 1702. jabber1990 posted: 01.11.2014 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "3.) Ron Malec" I don't want to start anything but why would Hendrick break up the 48 team for any reason, they have a good thing going (unfortunately) also if he moved Malec around then he'll sell the information to Chad thus turning the 88 into 48B also, if I read this right @nascarmemes said that NASCAR won't allow tandem drafting during nationwide testing, practice, or during the race. well, we know how well that rule worked in the cup races 1703. We need more Onion posted: 01.11.2014 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Do any of you know how to get the AI to run the silver and black test cars also?" I am pretty sure that they don't run the test schemes. 1704. 18fan posted: 01.11.2014 - 6:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NASCAR has banned tandem drafting in the Nationwide Series and the Truck Series. 1705. jabber1990 posted: 01.11.2014 - 7:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR has banned tandem drafting in the Nationwide Series and the Truck Series." I mean it worked so well the last time they regulated bump drafting 1706. TS1420 posted: 01.11.2014 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR has banned tandem drafting in the Nationwide Series and the Truck Series." Looking forward to most of speedweeks being a replay of the 2009 Protest 500 at Talladega SuperSpeedway. 1707. SpeedWorld97 posted: 01.11.2014 - 9:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR has banned tandem drafting in the Nationwide Series and the Truck Series." Great. So the Nationwide restrictor plate races which have been so exciting the past few years will be boring as drivers will have a harder time trying to pass each other. Yet another big mistake by NASCAR, and they wonder why so many fans bash their quality of racing. 1708. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.11.2014 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) F*ck! I've LOVED the pack/Tandem fusion the Nationwide series had been putting on at the Restrictor Plate Tracks! I know that there was the ridiculous into-the-catch-fence incident in last year's event, but it's not ARCA! The ARCA series has a legitimate excuse for doing that, it's ARCA, but the drivers in the Nationwide series do have a sense of control and direction with their cars in tandem and slam-drafting racing! Can't speak for the Trucks, I've only watched one Truck race in the last 7 years, and that was 2010 at Talladega. I enjoyed it for the tandem racing upfront, but I'm unfamiliar as to how it has impacted the normal pack racing. IN that event, there were just three Tandems running up front most of the race while the pack duked it out half-a-lap behind. I hope the Natonwide event ends up being an almost exact repeat of the 2009 Amp Energy 500 so NASCAR will pull their heads out of their asses. - - - In my copy of the game, I used the Open Sesame cheat to unlock everything. My purpose to getting the game was to run shortened simulations (4 to 16 percent) simulations of NASCAR races. It unlocked everything, all schemes, drivers, tracks (Except Pocono...FFFUUUUU), thunder plates, production car types, etc. I don't know if that would make a difference or not. 1709. murb posted: 01.11.2014 - 10:25 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) lol, So are they just gonna black flag people for it? Because I read the press release they put out, and it says that bump drafting is still legal. They just can't bump draft for longer than a tap. Basically, this is Nascar just doing what they always do. They've created yet another huge gray area that is gonna cause problems and confusion. What is considered a "tap"? Is there a designated amount of time that qualifies as a "tap"? And also, apparently the reasoning for it is because of the Larson accident last year at the checkered flag. If they are gonna blame that crash on the tandem drafting, then by their logic they should also ban all passing and hard racing on the last lap of the race, because that's exactly what caused that accident, not tandem drafting. It's just classic, classic, classic Brainless Brian Era rulings right here. Typical Robin Pemberton. Hopefully this won't turn into another protest race like Talladega 2009. 1710. 18fan posted: 01.11.2014 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Another Colts season ends with a beatdown at the hands of the Patriots in New England. 1711. jabber1990 posted: 01.12.2014 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ". It unlocked everything, all schemes, drivers, tracks (Except Pocono...FFFUUUUU)" when I build custom seasons I just use Levi Strauss speedway (which needs to be a real track) 1712. JG24FanForever posted: 01.12.2014 - 1:31 am Rate this comment: (4) (0) "Well that took all of 6 minutes in NASCAR's first telecast of 2014. Yocum to Austin Dillon: "...your grandfather's #3" Me: AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!" Yeah, because Big E didn't win 6 title's and die while driving a car bearing that number. It never happened. Austin Dillon has always been the #3. Always. Top 25 greatest Cup drivers: 1-25: All Austin Dillon, he's that incredible. 1713. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.12.2014 - 8:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^lol 1714. startandparkfan posted: 01.12.2014 - 9:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Nationwide bump drafting was what made the restrictor plate races so great. Trucks also used pack, so not as big of a loss, but that led to a great finish at Talladega last year. Hope the racing is still watchable. 1715. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.12.2014 - 10:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Top 25 greatest Cup drivers: 1-25: All Austin Dillon, he's that incredible." To be fair, I'd have Ty in there from 21-23. 1716. JG24FanForever posted: 01.12.2014 - 12:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF, I hope you're ready for today! Carolina blue and black. 1717. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.12.2014 - 1:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Actually Owners in Nationwide and Trucks wanted them too so something about it because they are sick and tired of paying for big wrecks, when they will pay for big wrecks anyway. And the owners will help NASCAR enforce the rule. 'We had a few owners who came to us and said, 'Look, you've got to help us. Just tell them they can't do it and police it and we'll help you with it,'' Quote is from SportingNews.com. I'm not posting the link because it'll take forever too too appear on here. So fans get 2x2 racing banned from Cup and Owners get it banned from Truck and Nationwide. 1718. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.12.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This comment is a few minutes late, but WHY the hell didn't Ron just QB sneak it from inches away? He evidently didn't learn from his earlier mistake when he done the same thing on 3rd and goal the previous time. 1719. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.12.2014 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) * To clarify I meant on the 3rd down play this most recent drive, not 4th down. 1720. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.12.2014 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That could not have been a more frustrating last 5 minutes of the half(for Carolina). 1721. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.12.2014 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Only a turnover can save us now. Carolina's inexperience in the playoffs has shown in too many places in this games, the 49'ers have been in their head. 1722. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.12.2014 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And so ends my stint on the 2013-14 Carolina Panthers bandwagon. 1723. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.12.2014 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm telling you, when the commentators aren't talking about Danica, they'll be focused on Austin Dillon. He'll be hyped like Logano was when he first came into NASCAR. With this new rule about bump-drafting, I expect to see a repeat of the 2009 Talladega debacle. 1724. jabber1990 posted: 01.12.2014 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm telling you, when the commentators aren't talking about Danica, they'll be focused on Austin Dillon. He'll be hyped like Logano was when he first came into NASCAR." Logano has silenced the haters and proven that he knows how to drive so, he kind of lived up to the hype but if the media is going to over-hype Dillon then does that mean Larson will have less pressure on him hopefully making him "Silent but Deadly?" 1725. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.12.2014 - 6:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Logano has silenced the haters and proven that he knows how to drive so, he kind of lived up to the hype" Not really... he was so hyped up... he was expected to have already won 3-5 titles (yes in just 5 seasons), won 40-90 races, and won multiples of each of the Crown Jewels, if you go based on the media hype. 1726. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.12.2014 - 6:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carolina just flat out did not show up to play. They played poorly, and were poorly prepared for San Fean. We lost because we deserved to lose. 1727. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.12.2014 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is what is meant by Logano "silencing the doubters". For his last couple of years at Gibbs, he had lots of doubters, including myself, they had written him of as a bust. We never thought he would do jack in Cup. Last year, driving inferior Fords that his defending champion teammate missed the chase with, he won at Michigan in convincing fashion (Brad's one win, he needed all 500 miles) and made the chase. I feel differently about him now. I think I was wrong, that he will be a winner for years. 1728. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.12.2014 - 7:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Joey was filling in for a 2-time champ. Those are some pretty BIG shoes too fill. I can't remember all of the circumstances of it but i know Tony wanted out because of Toyota and IMHO mailed it in in 2008 (and he didn't win a race by the way). When Tony left Gibbs needs a driver in the #20 and Joey (still wet behond the ears) was called up too fill-in. I think we will all agree Joey needed more time in N'wide, hell maybe a season in Trucks. But HE WAS NOT READY. Now he has a good teammate (not the egos size of the blimp Hamlin and Busch) and a good owner. We will see what he can do now. One more thing on the "outlawing" of 2x2 racing, i laugh when a driver says "we can't control our own destiny racing this way." Guess what drivers? You can't do it with pack racing either. Morons. I also find it funny that owners are complaining about having huge repairs bills... they still be throwing bucks of cash out after races at Daytona and Talladega. 1729. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.12.2014 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whoever wins between Seattle and San Fran will kill whoever wins the AFC game. 1730. BON GORDON posted: 01.12.2014 - 11:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well I figured I'd stop by and see what's going on. Austin Dillon and Football...Figured I'd tell everyone that I'm going back to Pocono this year. Hopefully with similar results but without the torrential down pours of rain. I might get tickets to the spring Martinsville race as well. Would love to go back to Martinsville. 1731. joey2448 posted: 01.13.2014 - 1:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) CAAAAAMMM....OHHHH CAAAAAMMM. 1732. Mr X posted: 01.13.2014 - 2:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Although we have discussed Joey Logano's JGR struggles relative to his teammates at length one factor that I believe was at play was simply the way he was adopted into the family at JGR. Honestly looking at the relationship between all the JGR members and Joey, vs the JGR members with all the other JGR members, Joey looked like an outcast. It looked like Joe Gibbs brought Joey in without consulting or almost in spite of some of the other higher ups there. I doubt Joey was never treated like a valued member at JGR. At Penske he was handpicked as a teammate by his teammate, and Roger Penske was happy with the decision. Honestly I think this explains most of the performance difference between 2009-2012 and 2013. I also think that this could be applied in the endless Jeff vs Jimmie argument's we always seem to circle back to. I've read that Steve Byrnes has started eating solid food again. I'm no doctor but I've heard that means he's recovering or they're ending treatment for negative reasons. I'm really hoping it's the former. Does anyone have any more info? 1733. MStall41 posted: 01.13.2014 - 8:57 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "One more thing on the "outlawing" of 2x2 racing, i laugh when a driver says "we can't control our own destiny racing this way." Guess what drivers? You can't do it with pack racing either. Morons. I also find it funny that owners are complaining about having huge repairs bills... they still be throwing bucks of cash out after races at Daytona and Talladega." This is a fallacy. A skilled drafter is absolutely in control of his own success at plate tracks. Obviously the Big One is a game changer but part of the plate racing is having an intuitive sense of when trouble is on the horizon and positioning yourself accordingly. Tandem racing on the other hand was not in the drivers hands at all whatsoever. 1734. MStall41 posted: 01.13.2014 - 9:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, this rule was needed. The last two NW plate races were horrendously terrible tandem-fests. Tandem racing ain't racing boys and girls, never was and never will be. Besides, if any of you watched Preseason Thunder, you'll have seen that the NW cars were very competitive and racy in the draft. These cars generate enough if a draft that they don't need any mindless tandeming to put on a good show. The fans have nothing to worry about, the racing will be better than last year based on what they were doing in the test. These drivers have over a month to come to terms with this rule, which is in stark contrast to Dega '09 when NASCAR dropped the rule on them the day of the race. TL;DR Stop worrying and stop whining NASCAR nation 1735. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.13.2014 - 10:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Mr X, you make an excellent point. I remember now how Denny and Kyle both were raving this year about how they both wanted Matt and got him. They just never liked Joey. I think feeling wanted helped him a lot. 1736. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.13.2014 - 11:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) ^MStall41 is back and putting NASCAR fans in their rightful place, ladies and gentlemen. 1737. The Long Shot posted: 01.13.2014 - 12:02 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "This is a fallacy. A skilled drafter is absolutely in control of his own success at plate tracks. Obviously the Big One is a game changer but part of the plate racing is having an intuitive sense of when trouble is on the horizon and positioning yourself accordingly. Tandem racing on the other hand was not in the drivers hands at all whatsoever." How can you say that pack racing is completely in the driver's hands, but tandem racing is not? With pack racing, sure, you can control your own success up to a point, but there is ALWAYS going to be a luck factor in play. You are at the mercy of the other drivers surrounding you, and if one of them makes a slight error, even the most intuitive plate racers are going to get blindsided from time to time. At least with tandem racing you can gain separation from the pack, if only for a period. I agree that you have less control over your car than with pack racing, but skilled drafters shouldn't have any issues with that. "The last two NW plate races were horrendously terrible tandem-fests. Tandem racing ain't racing boys and girls, never was and never will be." My apologies: I didn't realize that there was a precise definition of racing that went further than "a competition to see which person can go from Point A to Point B in the shortest span of time". Everybody's definition of "good racing" is different, and I don't appreciate being told what my taste in racing should be like. I, for one, found the races at Daytona and Talladega to be some of the most enjoyable races I've ever watched, Kyle Larson's crash not withstanding. I can't speak for everybody, but I watch racing for the competitiveness, and Daytona and Talladega annually offer some of the most competitive races of the year. Call it manufactured bullshit if you wish, but that does not take away from the fact that these races were awfully competitive and fun to watch (at least for me; again, I can't speak for everybody). Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, racing-related or not, but don't force it onto the rest of us. 1738. David posted: 01.13.2014 - 12:33 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "A skilled drafter is absolutely in control of his own success at plate tracks. Obviously the Big One is a game changer but part of the plate racing is having an intuitive sense of when trouble is on the horizon and positioning yourself accordingly." I disagree with most of the rest of your post but agree wholeheartedly here. Plate racing is precisely like any other discipline in that there are drivers who are skilled at it and those who are not. Now, no one is immune to the Big One (though it seemed like Earnhardt was at times), but even then, a few drivers have the ability to work through most wrecks. I will not disagree for a minute that plate racing is much more dependent on luck than intermediates, short tracks, and road courses, but the events are far from total crapshoots. Strategies vary widely, and that's the kind of racing I like to see (not to say that races decided on pure speed aren't fun to watch on occasion, and it always fun to see a battle of the drivers' nerves, like Atlanta 2011). 1739. MStall41 posted: 01.13.2014 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Great post David. I agree with everything you said there. And Long Shot, my stance on tandem racing is as follows: tandems require such an extreme level of dependence on other drivers that it defeats the competitive spirit of racing. Pack racing is way less dependent on others, you're simply working off of their draft, you aren't vitally dependent on others like you are in tandem racing. A driver that knows what he's doing can have a field day in a pack race if he has a good feel for the draft (see Earnhardt, Dale) and a decent car. You don't "need" drafting partners in pack racing, you just have to work the air and carry your runs and find the spots on the track that foster the best runs. It's a fascinating form of racing that is way more complicated than most realize. 1740. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.13.2014 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "^MStall41 is back and putting NASCAR fans in their rightful place, ladies and gentlemen." He didn't put me in my place, i'm simply pointing out NASCAR drivers hypocracy, weither it'd be 2x2 or pack racing, you still have a chance too end up on a roll back headed for a garage area with your car in pieces. luck or not, 1 person pushing you or 30 others around you, your still f***ed. "How can you say that pack racing is completely in the driver's hands, but tandem racing is not? With pack racing, sure, you can control your own success up to a point, but there is ALWAYS going to be a luck factor in play. You are at the mercy of the other drivers surrounding you, and if one of them makes a slight error, even the most intuitive plate racers are going to get blindsided from time to time. At least with tandem racing you can gain separation from the pack, if only for a period. I agree that you have less control over your car than with pack racing, but skilled drafters shouldn't have any issues with that." Thank you TLS. "Tandem racing ain't racing boys and girls, never was and never will be." ""My apologies: I didn't realize that there was a precise definition of racing that went further than "a competition to see which person can go from Point A to Point B in the shortest span of time". Everybody's definition of "good racing" is different, and I don't appreciate being told what my taste in racing should be like. I, for one, found the races at Daytona and Talladega to be some of the most enjoyable races I've ever watched, Kyle Larson's crash not withstanding. I can't speak for everybody, but I watch racing for the competitiveness, and Daytona and Talladega annually offer some of the most competitive races of the year. Call it manufactured bullshit if you wish, but that does not take away from the fact that these races were awfully competitive and fun to watch (at least for me; again, I can't speak for everybody). Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, racing-related or not, but don't force it onto the rest of us."" TLS response too you, a hell of a lot better then what i could put down. Your opinion, NOT fact. 1741. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.13.2014 - 1:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BTW MStall41 I usually agree with you stance on NASCAR fans but this is one thing were i will disagree on. 1742. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.13.2014 - 1:32 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) "He didn't put me in my place, i'm simply pointing out NASCAR drivers hypocracy, weither it'd be 2x2 or pack racing, you still have a chance too end up on a roll back headed for a garage area with your car in pieces. luck or not, 1 person pushing you or 30 others around you, your still f***ed." Haha. What I meant to say is that MStall41 is back and lecturing fans about how wrong we all are. It was sarcastic. Trust me, I have no love for his posts because he seems to be under the impression that most fans are dumbs and need his guidance to see the truth. 1743. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.13.2014 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ray Evernham has his own show on Velocity starting later this month where he goes around finding contage cars. What is funny is that in the previews, they refer to him as a "3 time winner with Jeff Gordon". Really? So Jeff and Ray only won 3 times from '93-'99? For some reason, I seem to remember them winning just a few more races than that. I mean seriously, they couldn't have said "3 time champion with Jeff Gordon"? But this is part of a bigger issue that has me worried. Obviously those of us on this board and true racing fans know better. But as the years continue to pass, and the non stop propaganda from Daytona Beach continues, and new fans replace the older ones, will the uninitiated start to view Winston Cup champions as champions of a lesser, antiquated era? We already have this show referring to the 3 Winston Cups won by Jeff and Ray as "wins". And will Jeff wind up being a reason for this? One of the best, most versatile, most well rounded racers ever, whose only weakness as a driver is a curious downturn on performance in the last two months of a season, pretty much guaranteeing he would never win a Brian France Cup. He was, and still is, one of the great racing sharks ever. When he can sniff the lead, watch out. I watched him in the closing laps of Martinsville in person, and it is something to behold. He doesn't slip or overdrive a single corner (amazing at Martinsville) only turning perfect lap after perfect lap. Once again, thank you Brian France for pissing on this sport's wonderful and FUN history. 1744. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.13.2014 - 1:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) "My apologies: I didn't realize that there was a precise definition of racing that went further than "a competition to see which person can go from Point A to Point B in the shortest span of time". Everybody's definition of "good racing" is different, and I don't appreciate being told what my taste in racing should be like." Thank you Long Shot. Put in our place? I don't think so, but somebody just got SCHOOLED. 1745. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.13.2014 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "no one is immune to the Big One (though it seemed like Earnhardt was at times)" You are right, there were times when it seemed he had exceptional luck at plate races avoiding TBO. But it went in spells. From '89-'95, he only was caught in one Big One, in the '92 Daytona 500. He was in some single car spins (closing laps '91 Daytona 500, last lap '95 Winston 500). But from the Summer of '96 through the Spring of '98, he was in 3 bone crunchers. Then he avoided all the Big Ones from '99 thru the '01 Daytona 500 (using great instincts to miss that race's Big One, although it would have been better had he been swept up in that one). Also, for all of his reputation as a wrecking ball, Dale never triggered one. In fact, I can only think of 3 wrecks on the plate tracks he caused in all those years. He wrecked Little Al in the '93 Daytona 500, his good buddy Rusty in the very next plate race at Dega sending him in a horrifying wreck (leaving The Intimidator shaken), and his own fatal wreck in '01. 1746. murb posted: 01.13.2014 - 2:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Long Shot pretty much nailed everything in 1737. Like I said in my post the other night, I'm frustrated at Nascar creating another gray area and overreacting to an isolated incident once again more than I'm mad about them taking the tandem draft away. I can take or leave the tandem draft (and I feel the same way about pack racing too, by the way). I'm just sick of about 85% of the rulings they make. They've totally confused everyone on restart rules, the phantom caution stuff is still an issue, and now they've gone throwback and have created another huge bump drafting gray area, just like they did at Talladega in 2009. Or what about the completely pathetic debacle at the end of the Homestead NNS race last November? They suck and are inconsistent as a sanctioning body. That's what pisses me off here, yet again. And also, for what it's worth, I think they need to replace the current NNS director too, just like they did with Darby in Cup. There seems to be a new era of sorts starting up right now (new drivers, new race cars, new schedules in the future, etc), so what better time then now to scrap all of the hacks who run the series (except for Chad Little in Trucks - he's done a good job) and give some new, quality people a shot at it. It looks like they are gonna do it in Cup, so why not do it in NNS too, since that is where all the Cup stars of the future are right now. I REALLY want to see some big changes like this happen. This current sanctioning regime has gone on long enough. 1747. David posted: 01.13.2014 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And also, for what it's worth, I think they need to replace the current NNS director too, just like they did with Darby in Cup." I hate to be the phantom debris in your race, but they did that last year (Wayne Auton replaced Joe Balash), so they're not likely to do that again soon. 1748. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.13.2014 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Logano has silenced the haters and proven that he knows how to drive so, he kind of lived up to the hype" While he didn't at first, I agree that 2013 showed that he's capable of strategizing a race to contend in a race-winning car. Last year I couldn't stand him because he was causing wreck after wreck and running his mouth, now it seems he's learned to shut up and drive. And the parellel between Logano when he first came up and Dillon right now is pretty similar. Taking over a ride formerly driven by a great and lots of hype. Kyle Larson I don't expect much out of this year, and that is mainly due to the team he will be driving for. Larson has the talent to be successful, but as long as he's with Ganassi, he'll only be able to get the occasional good run (look at McMurray). 1749. murb posted: 01.13.2014 - 3:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I hate to be the phantom debris in your race, but they did that last year (Wayne Auton replaced Joe Balash), so they're not likely to do that again soon." Yeah, I forgot about that. But I still wouldn't mind another change. I like what they did with the Truck Series by bringing in Chad Little, a former competitor. He knows what it's like to be out there on the race track, which I think helps a lot with the officiating. And look what happened. The Truck Series was awesome last year, and probably had the least amount of absurd decisions made out of the top three series. It's a total pipe dream on my part, but I wish that Nascar would follow suit and let some other former drivers be the series directors and competition presidents and whatnot. There are a lot of guys who I think would do a great job (Wally Dallenbach is an example that has been brought up before). Former drivers know what it's like to be out there, unlike Pemberton and all these other stooges who have no clue at all. I think it would be a great step in the right direction. 1750. MStall41 posted: 01.13.2014 - 4:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Thank you Long Shot. Put in our place? I don't think so, but somebody just got SCHOOLED." Really? And who would that be that "got schooled"? Its funny that you are poking your head into this argument DSFF, because if memory serves me right, you yourself have spoken out against tandem racing, going as far as to say it is "not racing." A bit hypocritical of you to jump on the "don't tell me what racing is bandwagon", no? Consider this post from the 2011 Good Sam Club 500 Thread.... "139. DaleSrFanForever posted: 10.24.2011 - 7:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm also glad to see no Fords in the Top 10. Nice to see that backfire, even though the wreck taking out Harvick probably handed the championship to one of the Roush drivers, most likely Carl. I am officially on the "2x2 drafting must go" bandwagon due to the fact it is more politics than racing. Between the Ford debacle which screwed Gordon, and Menard suddenly quit pushing Tony with the two RCR cars up front (REALLY losing respect for Richard), this isn't racing. Remove the bottom back bumper cover for the plate races and end this nonsense." Sounds awfully similar to what I said doesn't it? 1751. murb posted: 01.13.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And on the Logano thing, I'm probably the guy on here who has eaten the most crow when it comes to him. He totally proved me wrong last year. I think he has a bright future. I don't know about him becoming a champion, but I see him having a pretty good Kasey Kahne type career. And like RCRandPenske was saying, it seems he's learned to shut up and drive (cue that annoying song by Pink or Rihanna or whoever), which has made him a hell of a lot more tolerable to me. As for Dillon, I do think he's gonna struggle in his first couple years, like Logano did. His on track results might be pretty good because of the people Childress has surrounded him with, but when I say struggle, I mean that I think he'll struggle with attitude and respect problems, like Logano did. Remember how Logano was in 2009/2010 when he acted like he was already a Cup superstar and a champion? I see similar things coming up in the next couple years with Austin Dillon, only it will probably be even worse because of all the #3 hype. 1752. joey2448 posted: 01.13.2014 - 6:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MStall41, I think what DSFF meant on that post from 2011 is that he hates the tandem racing simply because of the politics involved between teams. If you remember, Trevor Bayne left Jeff Gordon out to dry on the final restart in that race at Dega, and instead opted to draft with a Ford driver (I think it was Kenseth, if I remember right). I think what DSFF meant was that the racing itself was damn exciting, because drivers could pass each other, but the allegiances between teams kinda ruined the fun. 1753. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.13.2014 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) MStall, I don't understand what you are trying to prove. I gave my opinion (which I still hold btw) of 2x2 racing in 2011. I stated which bandwagon I was on. On this thread, I was pointing out that you got completely SCHOOLED. Two different situations. I didn't give my opinion one way or another on the current drafting debate. So dig up all the old quotes from me you want, and I'm sure you can find some good ones (Logano will never make the chase, Brad is a great guy who would never blow past somebody decked in his gear and not take two seconds to give an autograph, Jeff Gordon will win another championship, JJ will win the 2011 championship, JJ will win the 2012 championship, JJ won't win the 2013 championship, the 2011 title battle will go down as one of the "does anybody want this thing or not" battles like '84, '91, and '02 prior to Texas). But it won't change the fact you got SCHOOLED. 1754. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.13.2014 - 7:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF i don't concider Ray Evernham a cheater, i view him as one of the best CCs too ever step foot in the garage area. Everytime the #24 showed up too the track with Jeff driving and Ray on the war wagon, you had too work too beat them. Murb, Robin Pemberton was a CC and a good one too. He may not have been a driver but he put in the work at the track and found success (with Kyle Petty, Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace no less). Robin has a place in NASCAR with his experience, just not in his current post, elsewhere. And again, they getting rid of 2x2 in N'wide and Trucks because owners WANTED them too do it. 1755. murb posted: 01.13.2014 - 7:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Murb, Robin Pemberton was a CC and a good one too. He may not have been a driver but he put in the work at the track and found success" I know that, and you're right about how he has a place in Nascar. I just don't want him as the VP of on track competition anymore, because there have been too many bonehead rulings to count with him at the helm. I think everything would be much better off if he would just stick to helping with R/D and that type of thing, which is where his experience and knowledge of the race cars would be much better spent. Like I said before, I really think it would be smart of Nascar to put a former driver in charge of the on track competition. And that goes for all the series. Let former crew chiefs be in charge of R/D and race car development, and let former drivers be in charge of the actual competition. It makes perfect sense to me. But unfortunately, as we've seen over the last few years, "perfect sense" and "Nascar" usually don't go hand in hand. 1756. MStall41 posted: 01.13.2014 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) First off, I don't see how I could be schooled when I was stating a fact. Tandem racing isn't racing. You said it yourself in 2011 and you just said that you still believe that, which in essence implies that you agree with me. Thus you saying I got schooled is patently silly and hypocritical. 1757. MStall41 posted: 01.13.2014 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And I think the idea that I was somehow schooled by Long Shot is also silly considering he used many of the same weak arguments that Zachary Shawn tried to use a few months ago in his rant about JJ ruining NASCAR for him. 1758. Eric posted: 01.13.2014 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, Are you going do a gorilla press or go into Warrior mode now since the WWE has announced that the Ultimate Warrior will be inducted into the WWE Hall of Hall? 1759. The Long Shot posted: 01.13.2014 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "And Long Shot, my stance on tandem racing is as follows: tandems require such an extreme level of dependence on other drivers that it defeats the competitive spirit of racing. Pack racing is way less dependent on others, you're simply working off of their draft, you aren't vitally dependent on others like you are in tandem racing. A driver that knows what he's doing can have a field day in a pack race if he has a good feel for the draft (see Earnhardt, Dale) and a decent car. You don't "need" drafting partners in pack racing, you just have to work the air and carry your runs and find the spots on the track that foster the best runs. It's a fascinating form of racing that is way more complicated than most realize." So it defeats the competitive spirit of racing, and yet by using it the Nationwide Series has had some of its most competitive plate races ever? I don't like the idea of tandem racing any more than you do, but I also can't deny that it has produced some fabulous races over the past few years. If I have to choose between a non-tandem Jimmie Johnson front-run a la last year's Daytona 500 and a tandem racing-filled thriller like last year's Drive4COPD 300 (minus the Larson crash, of course), I'm taking the tandem-filled race 10 times out of 10, and why? Because it makes for good racing. That's my subjective opinion, and I'm not changing it. "First off, I don't see how I could be schooled when I was stating a fact. Tandem racing isn't racing." You need to look at a dictionary, my friend. Perhaps learning the definitions for the words "subjective" and "opinion" would serve you best. "And I think the idea that I was somehow schooled by Long Shot is also silly considering he used many of the same weak arguments that Zachary Shawn tried to use a few months ago in his rant about JJ ruining NASCAR for him." Merely a case of Zackary Shawn stating his subjective opinion about something and you attempting to force objectivity on him. I respect your motorsports knowledge and that you write for Frontsretch and the like, but your constant condescending tone as well as your attempts to force objectivity on people can piss me off, and frankly, I don't think I'm the only one. Not trying to insult you here, but I really wish you'd show a bit more respect for other people's viewpoints, rather than just flat-out saying that they're wrong. 1760. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.13.2014 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) The Ultimate Warrior is gonna be in the HOF? Hell yeah! I hadn't heard. Now all that is left is for the Macho Man Randy Savage to get in. I wonder why he hasn't got in yet. Oh, that's right, in the early 90's he banged a 14 year old Stephanie McMahon and Vince still hasn't forgiven him. MStall, again, the argument isn't about plate racing. It is about the fact you got SCHOOLED. 1761. murb posted: 01.13.2014 - 11:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I think the idea that I was somehow schooled by Long Shot is also silly considering he used many of the same weak arguments that Zachary Shawn tried to use a few months ago in his rant about JJ ruining NASCAR for him." I don't see how Long Shot's argument is weak at all, and I don't remember the argument that you had with Zack verbatim, but knowing Zack I'm pretty sure his argument wasn't weak either. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they have a weak argument. I have a lot of respect for you. You really do know a lot about motorsports. But you know, just because you write for Frontstretch and all that doesn't mean you're better than the rest of us. That's the perception most everyone here has of you. Just because you're a tad more closer to being "in the sport" or whatever doesn't mean that you are right about everything and that everyone else is wrong. I actually do respect your opinions, and I wish you well in your journalistic pursuits. But I REALLY wish you would respect everyone else's opinions and stop acting like you're better than everyone. 1762. murb posted: 01.13.2014 - 11:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's hope they have subtitles ready for Warrior's HOF speech, lol. And yes, Savage getting in would be beyond awesome. I might actually watch it if he gets in. 1763. 18fan posted: 01.14.2014 - 1:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) While I do think that the tandem racing was exciting, it became way too political, at least in Cup, and the potential was certainly there for the politicking to get much worse. I am not heartbroken that it is gone, but I'm not overly ecstatic that it is gone. If NASCAR can produce a plate package similar to the 2012 fall Talladega race (and last year's race to an extent), the pack racing should be fine. 1764. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.14.2014 - 4:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (4) Notice the common denominator of people getting in fights with MStall41? 1765. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.14.2014 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "While I do think that the tandem racing was exciting, it became way too political, at least in Cup, and the potential was certainly there for the politicking to get much worse." We have too blame Jack Roush for that, he started cuz "A Ford as too help a Ford no matter what." I also had a problem with drivers talking too one another. 1-2 guys i wouldn't say its a bad thing but 5-6? Come on guys.... I also seem too remember guys like Robby and Trevor working well together, hell they were one of the best 2x2ers at Dega one year, #13 and #51, hell even Bill Elliot and Terry Labonte at Daytona in 2011. Plate Racing itself is fine as LONG AS ITS LEFT ALONE. As long as they can pass, i don't care. But 500s like 2012 and last year were sad too watch. I just hope the 1/2 more rear spoiler NASCAR added for Daytona will help, can only get better. 1766. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.14.2014 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I'm still fairly new here and my racing knowledge pales in comparison to the majority on here, so it may be out of place for me to say something here, but I will state a few things nonetheless. As others have said, I respect you Mstall and the fact you write for the Frontstretch and the fact that you certainly have the right to your own opinion. But the key here is that it is your OPINION, not an actual objective fact, and you need to learn that people are going to have different view points, and that a lot of people aren't going to take lightly to someone saying that they are wrong just because they have a different POV. Let me give you an example that has to do with Jimmie Johnson. Like many, I do not like to see him win. It oftentimes makes me downright angry and not want to watch racing anymore(for a short time). Is that right of me to feel that way? Probably not. And there are many people that take it too far and wish bad things on him(which IS ridiculous). But I respect the fact that there are many that like Jimmie and think he is one of the greatest, and that's great. But that doesn't mean that I might not start throwing crap and fuming to myself when he wins again. It's not up to you or me or anyone else here to tell us how we SHOULD feel, because we are all different and have a different POV. To me, one of the biggest problems with the world today is that in many cases it seems like no one is allowed to have their own opinions and too many people follow the crowd (thankfully we don't have that problem on this site). I will actually make a big statement here: I rarely ever agree with the opinions that you post on here. And by the same token, I almost always agree with Zackary Shawn and his opinions. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that I actually consider Zack any better or worse than you. None of us are better or worse than anyone else because of our particular opinions. I certainly didn't mean any disrespect whatsoever to you MStall, I like and respect you and will never forget that time when you answered my questions a few months ago about the Anti-Aero push project(which you went out of your way to do). I also apologize if I sounded preacher-like, I am bad about that sometimes. I wish you nothing but the best for you in all your pursuits. 1767. Eric posted: 01.14.2014 - 5:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DaleSrFanForever, Randy Savage not being the WWE Hall of Fame right now has nothing to do with the old rumors of him and Stephanie McMahon. When Randy was alive, he wanted his dad and his brother to be inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame. Randy's wishes are still being followed by his brother Lanny "The Genius" Poffo.The WWE only wants Randy Savage inducted into the WWE Hall of Fame, not Randy's dad and not Lanny "The Genius" Poffo. 1768. startandparkfan posted: 01.14.2014 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looking up what Kevin Conway was up to, and he WON the 2013 Lamborghini Super Trofeo Pro Am championship! Seems like he finally found success somewhere! 1769. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.14.2014 - 7:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is true Eric. You are right about that. But there is definitely something major between Vince and Randy that never got resolved before Randy died on 5/20/2011 to prevent The Rapture which was gonna happen the next day (its true). And Vince isn't letting it go. I don't know if the Steph rumors are true (surely Randy could do SO much better, yet there has never been a denial of this). I do know Randy had some pointed words for HHH prior to his death due to HHH running his mouth and Randy telling him to face him like a man (Macho would destroy HHH). So you are correct Eric. Those were Randy's wishes. I should have mentioned that. But something else is there too. To be the second biggest star of the WWF's first golden era (and the one with the most memorable moments, if you've seen one Hulk Hogan match you've seen them all), not a lot of official tributes came after his death. Paul Bearer got more tributes from the company. I have the utmost respect for Paul as one of the greatest wrestling managers ever, and was a huge part of the best executed wrestling angle ever, the arrival of Kane and everything leading to his WrestleMania match against Taker. But he didn't have the impact Randy did. 1770. MStall41 posted: 01.14.2014 - 11:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Look out for some Turner-Scott Motorsports news in the next week and a half. Tayler Malsam is headed to one of their Truck rides (presumably truck #33 with sponsorship from CoinStar), Kwasniewski is expected to pilot the #31 in Nationwide with Rockstar Energy on board (sponsor is still somewhat up in the air though), and Allgaier's plans are expected to be announced very soon as well. Stay tuned.... 1771. David posted: 01.14.2014 - 11:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kwasniewski is expected to pilot the #31 in Nationwide with Rockstar Energy on board (sponsor is still somewhat up in the air though)" Really hope that deal comes through. This kid has "potential" written all over him. Winning the K&N East title in his rookie year is nothing to sneeze at; let's just hope he isn't rushed to Cup too soon. 1772. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.15.2014 - 12:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Plate Racing itself is fine as LONG AS ITS LEFT ALONE. As long as they can pass, i don't care." I agree, I have nothing against the 2x2 tandems (except for the Roush dictatorship at Dega in Fall 2011) or the huge pack racing, as long as it makes for a good show I don't care. As far as Kwasniewski goes, I'm hoping at the very least, he spends a couple of years in Nationwide before people start talking Cup for him. I want to see the new blood we get be developed. 1773. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.15.2014 - 1:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RCRand Penske, I agree about Dylan K. As excited as I am about him, I hope they keep him in NWide for at least two years to get experience. 1774. MStall41 posted: 01.15.2014 - 1:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kwasniewski has potential to be a major "crossover star" a la Danica or Junior if he can find success early in his NW or Cup career (assuming he gets there). 1775. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.15.2014 - 8:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And I think the idea that I was somehow schooled by Long Shot is also silly considering he used many of the same weak arguments that Zachary Shawn tried to use a few months ago in his rant about JJ ruining NASCAR for him." MStall41. if Alabama had won the Iron Bowl this year should I have been pleased just because it was a good game? Conversely, should I be pleased with the way the BCS National Championship turned out? I asked you questions similar to these months ago and I'm still waiting for an answer. That's essentially what you said about Jimmie Johnson, though. That it shouldn't matter who won because the race itself was "good" (as if there is some set in stone definition of "good"). People are allowed not to like him and judge races however they want to. I don't like Jimmie, but I think I give him a pretty fair shakedown overall. 1776. DB1995 posted: 01.15.2014 - 11:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Formula One driver Michael Schumacher will most likely remain in a coma for the rest of his life due to ongoing brain damage. I just heard this on facebook..... My prayers to Michaels family 1777. The Long Shot posted: 01.16.2014 - 12:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Very saddening news about Schumacher. I'll still be holding out hope for a miracle recovery, but I'm afraid this is going to turn into a situation similar to Bruce Jacobi's and Rick Baldwin's (although if I remember correctly, Jacobi supposedly was improving and might even have stood a chance at regaining consciousness before he died). My thoughts are with the Schumacher family tonight. "Many people always ask me why I sign off with "'til we meet again". Because goodbye is always so final." Goodbye, Michael Schumacher. 1778. murb posted: 01.16.2014 - 12:59 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It really bums me out to read that. Thoughts and hopes go out to the Schumacher family. 1779. The Long Shot posted: 01.16.2014 - 9:33 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Some silly season news: --A new team, Martins Motorsports, will run 2 full-time Nationwide Series teams next season. Tommy Joe Martins, whose family presumably owns the team, will drive the #67 car, while Willie Allen will drive the #76. Manufacturers and sponsors have not been announced. --According to reports, ML Racing has shut down. All of its employees have been laid off, and the team's assets and shop are being sold. 1780. David posted: 01.16.2014 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where has it said that Schumacher will remain in a coma for the rest of his life? All I've seen is the speculation of several medical experts, who have also said that said speculation about brain injuries is very unreliable. So let's not throw dirt on Schumacher's grave yet. We have no idea how this will turn out. "I'm afraid this is going to turn into a situation similar to Bruce Jacobi's and Rick Baldwin's" The sad thing about Baldwin's crash is that he was stepping in for Buddy Arrington, who was injured the week before at Pocono. 1781. jabber1990 posted: 01.16.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "These drivers have over a month to come to terms with this rule, which is in stark contrast to Dega '09 when NASCAR dropped the rule on them the day of the race." they had speedweeks, and plus the experience at the last few Talladega races to prepare and learn how to drive/tandem for the 2011 Daytona 500 and they still screwed it up (although it was a hell of a race) sorry. I like to disappear for a few days and then come back a few days later to see how the discussion changed, sorry i'll stop doing that 1782. jabber1990 posted: 01.16.2014 - 2:37 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Gene Haas is thinking about starting up an F1 Team? how much money does he have? 1783. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.16.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Very saddening news about Schumacher. I'll still be holding out hope for a miracle recovery, but I'm afraid this is going to turn into a situation similar to Bruce Jacobi's and Rick Baldwin's (although if I remember correctly, Jacobi supposedly was improving and might even have stood a chance at regaining consciousness before he died). My thoughts are with the Schumacher family tonight. "Many people always ask me why I sign off with "'til we meet again". Because goodbye is always so final." Goodbye, Michael Schumacher. " Let's not jump the gun. The sources reporting this are infamous German tabloids known for twisting facts or outright lying to make a sensational headline. "Gene Haas is thinking about starting up an F1 Team? how much money does he have? " I don't know, but no one is more dangerous and with control of money than he. 1784. Dense Drip posted: 01.16.2014 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Apparently, a team called Martins Motorsports is planning to run full time in the Nationwide Series with the drives Willie Allen and Tommy Joe Martins. 1785. murb posted: 01.16.2014 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I wonder how many "Danica to F1" rumors this Haas story is gonna start. 1786. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.16.2014 - 6:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ Danica is too old for F1. F1 teams look for drivers when they are in their teen years. Ask Lewis Hamliton. Cups teams cost tens millions of dollars, F1 teams cost hundreds of millions of dollars. F1 is so expensive that smaller teams are dieing, Gene wouldn't last in a month in Bruton Ecclstones racing series. 1787. An Aussie Commentator posted: 01.16.2014 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "According to reports, ML Racing has shut down. All of its employees have been laid off, and the team's assets and shop are being sold. " I thought they couldn't keep going without Johanna Long. "Apparently, a team called Martins Motorsports is planning to run full time in the Nationwide Series with the drives Willie Allen and Tommy Joe Martins." Who what? Oh and Jayski have reported that Dave Blaney is one of the drivers getting inducted into the Hall of Fame 1788. Anonymous posted: 01.16.2014 - 7:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Sprint Car Hall of Fame 1789. David posted: 01.16.2014 - 7:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sad news for '60s TV shows connoisseurs: Russell Johnson, who played the Professor on "Gilligan's Island", passed away this morning. 1790. murb posted: 01.16.2014 - 8:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Danica is too old for F1." Obviously. I'm just saying that it's been a rumor/fantasy of a lot of people for years now, so you know that it's gonna come up again at some point now that Haas is apparently interested in an F1 team. Hell, I'm expecting a "Why Danica Will Drive For Gene Haas' F1 Team" article on Bleacher Report any moment now. 1791. ch posted: 01.16.2014 - 10:57 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Hopefully this is the same Willie Allan as the old 05 car. He had a handful of quite impressive runs considering the equipment. Also, Go Green Racing is selling off their NW equipment, so looks like another full time team from last year is leaving. By my count, only 26 of the 31 teams who attempted the full schedule will be back next year. 1792. We need more Onion posted: 01.17.2014 - 9:05 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "By my count, only 26 of the 31 teams who attempted the full schedule will be back next year." Somewhere, Curtis Key is smiling. 1793. Scott B posted: 01.17.2014 - 11:18 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) "Gene Haas is thinking about starting up an F1 Team? how much money does he have?" The IRS would like to know that, too. ;) 1794. jabber1990 posted: 01.17.2014 - 12:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) did Tony Stewart "bail-out" Gene Haas' racing team? or did he just "buy stock" in it resulting in partial ownership? 1795. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.17.2014 - 4:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ If Smokes name is on it then i guess he is part owner. But then again, i'm not the business expert here. Unlike Robbys team (when he was around), he owned everything and payied for everything himself. Same with Alan K. 1796. David posted: 01.17.2014 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Orange Cone tweeted a picture of Jeff Gordon's Axalta scheme for this season: red and yellow flames on a black base. It's awesome. 1797. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.17.2014 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I posted the link to an ESPN article, I guess that's why it didn't post immediately. Essentially, NASCAR is planning on increasing the Chase field from 12 to 16 drivers based on wins, then points. Then during the chase, there will be eliminations of 4 drivers after 3/6/9 races, leaving four drivers eligible at Miami. 1798. murb posted: 01.18.2014 - 12:15 am Rate this comment: (1) (1) Just when you think they can't get anymore asinine, they outdo themselves. Eliminations? Unbelievable. 1799. TS1420 posted: 01.18.2014 - 12:20 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I just read that about that too, CHP. I just knew once NASCAR stuffed Gordon into the Chase last season they would get a hardon to expand the Chase yet again and adding more stolen rival sports gimmicks to it was inevitable ("Hey we got our own version of the Sweet 16 & Final Four! Suck it NCAA!"). The way they are going, by 2024 the Chase will be tweaked to "The 43 Drivers that attempted the most races this season will go into the Ford Daytona Championship Super Race Bowl Weekend Grand Finale 500 with a shot to win the NASCAR Apple iSprint Mobile Cup Championship. It should be a super exciting finish to the season!.... oh by the way, we also banned drafting of any sort for this weekend. We expect to see a minimal of 2 car lengths between each car at all times. And don't miss the first ever Diet Natural Pepsi Negative Max Daytona Half-Time Show featuring *insert lame 2024 pop act*" NASCAR. If you want to tweak the chase, make it 36 races long... 1800. Eric posted: 01.18.2014 - 12:35 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) It is official that the chase is a joke and gimmicky if no one thought the chase was gimmicky to begin with. 16 cup drivers in a 10 race playoff is way too many drivers. Creating eliminations makes the chase even more gimmicky than before and gives NASCAR a bigger credibility problem than before. Getting a rid of the chase is the only answer to make NASCAR less like professional wrestling and getting a rid of Brain France and his cronies on the cup level would be a big help. I also think whatever media sticking up for Brian France for the chase is now gone because the rule changes made the chase a laughing stock and did the only thing to make NASCAR having less credibility. 1801. The Long Shot posted: 01.18.2014 - 12:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is not a jury in the world that would convict me if I were to gorilla press-slam Brian France right now. 1802. murb posted: 01.18.2014 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay, as I read further into this, the eliminations don't irritate me that much. BUT WHY THE HELL DO WE NEED 16 DRIVERS IN THE CHASE? So Nascar can have their own NCAA Sweet 16 format or something? I'm just seriously sick of them constantly gimmicking the points system up. Pick a format and stick with it. I thought the Chase was just fine with 10 drivers (2004, 2005, and 2006 were all really good title battles). But then they had to add 12 just because Jr and Gordon missed it the one year. And then they had to add Wild Cards because guys were winning multiple races and still missing the cut. And now this, which seems like it is pretty likely to happen according to all the articles I've read. All I can do is hope that this doesn't turn into the complete joke that I think it will be. 1803. David posted: 01.18.2014 - 12:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I knew it. If anyone else was running NASCAR and they said they were dissatisfied with the points system, then I'd be hopeful. But it's Brainless Brian, so we should ALWAYS worry. 1804. TS1420 posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:00 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tag me in Long Shot! *Mule Kicks Brian France, Goldberg-on-Bret-Hart style* 1805. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:02 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Getting a rid of the chase is the only answer to make NASCAR less like professional wrestling" I will never understand the wrestling comparisons. The drivers are STILL competing against one another. 1806. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Honestly, I don't think it's that terrible of an idea...but that's just me. I watch to be entertained and I think this will be entertaining. 1807. murb posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Another thing about having 16 drivers: You can now mathematically win a championship just by being the 16th best driver in the regular season. "Paul Menard, 2014 Sprint Cup champion" can really happen now (not knocking Paul, he's a good driver but not a championship caliber one). Nascar is constantly saying that they want to make competition tighter and mean more, yet right here (if it does happen), they've made it even easier to make the Chase. All you have to do is basically just be on a multi-car team and you are in. Please don't do this Nascar. 1808. David posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, save your slamming for when they actually announce this. Even then, DSFF, NRF, and Schroeder might beat you there. 1809. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I know it's just an example, but--as I understand it--Paul Menard wouldn't have made The Chase under this format. Interestingly enough, neither would Jeff Gordon. The 16 drivers who would have made it (in order of which they achieved their win.) 1) Jimmie Johnson 2) Carl Edwards 3) Matt Kenseth 4) Kasey Kahne 5) Kyle Busch 6) Kevin Harvick 7) David Ragan 8) Tony Stewart 9) Greg Biffle 10) Martin Truex Jr. 11) Brian Vickers 12) Ryan Newman 13) Joey Logano 14) Dale Earnhardt Jr. 15) Clint Bowyer 16) Kurt Busch 1810. TS1420 posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Another thing about having 16 drivers: You can now mathematically win a championship just by being the 16th best driver in the regular season. "Paul Menard, 2014 Sprint Cup champion" can really happen now (not knocking Paul, he's a good driver but not a championship caliber one)." Just wait until 2015 or 2016 when they add a Fan Vote Position for The Chase and "Danica Patrick (0 Top Fives, 0 top tens, 8 lead lap finishes), Championship Contender" becomes a sad reality. 1811. jabber1990 posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I will never understand the wrestling comparisons. The drivers are STILL competing against one another." and its not fake, just really gimmicky 1812. Eric posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zackary Shawn and jabber1990, I used to watch Wrestling matches years ago and I know the difference between fake and real. I did the Pro Wrestling comparison because of how gimmicky NASCAR is getting for creating a playoff system. The other reason for Pro Wrestling comparison is based on stuff like decisions like punishing Martin Truex Jr., but not punishing Clint Bowyer over what happened at Richmond as an example. 1813. murb posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:44 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Paul Menard wouldn't have made The Chase under this format." Okay, but even with that list you made, it only further proves my point. Brian Vickers (someone who didn't even run all the races) makes it? And David Ragan would have made it too just because of the Talladega win (I love David, but what else did he do besides that Talladega win?)? If they are gonna let surprise winners like that in just because they win one race, we will have people competing for championships that aren't championship level drivers. If this is the system they are choosing, I want to see the 16 very best drivers go at it. Not people who get one win and then are also-rans everywhere else. Sure, it would be interesting to watch, and it might up the ante in individual races a little bit, but overall it's way easier to make the Chase with this system. If you are on one of the big multi-car teams you are pretty much a lock, and if you aren't all you have to do is win a plate race. I just don't like it, and I wish they would pick one system and stick with it. Maybe I could learn to tolerate this system like I have with the previous Chase, but right now on paper it just seems like another Brainless Brian gimmick that will cause most of us to cringe. 1814. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought the point system was fine the way it was in 2003 and before. Why NASCAR feels the need to constantly change it to try and manufacture exciting point battles is beyond me. First the Chase, then adding 2 more drivers to it each year, then the wild card, then changing the way points are given out, and now this has been brought up. Excitement still came more often than not with the traditional point system. 1815. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:46 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) If NASCAR does this, I would advise them not sticking with the same track as the season finale though. Possibly let the tracks bid on it??? 1816. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Okay, but even with that list you made, it only further proves my point. Brian Vickers (someone who didn't even run all the races) makes it? And David Ragan would have made it too just because of the Talladega win (I love David, but what else did he do besides that Talladega win?)?" Honestly, after rereading it Brain Vickers may have not made it either since he wasn't full time. And let's be honest, if there are eliminations David Ragan would easily be eliminated in the first round of eliminations. In theory, I agree with you but in terms of what we know will practically happen, it's not really that much of an issue. 1817. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.18.2014 - 4:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Kayfabe! So let me get this straight... if a driver has 26 top-5s, 26 top-10s, 26 most led bonuses, and has a 300 point lead, but no wins, he gets bounced from the Chase if there are 16 winners? I hope somebody wins three races early on, calls it quits, and then comes back for the Chase. 1818. pimmy posted: 01.18.2014 - 7:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somebody's let the lunatics out again. If only there were more people in the world like Randy Bernard & Alan Gow. 1819. Waynerd posted: 01.18.2014 - 7:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I posted this 2 something happen. Man are heads going to roll. Everyone's points are set to 0 the final 4 drivers. The chase field is determined by who won a single race and then by points with the people who didn't win..if there aren't 16 winners. I posted without the link not sure why that didn't show up. 1820. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.18.2014 - 7:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh great. Get ready for the NASCAR "Everybody gets a trophy" Series http://espn.go.com/racing/nascar/cup/story/_/id/10312699/nascar-planning-major-changes-points-system Major points: Chase goes from 12 to 16 drivers based on wins, then points. ????? Chase has eliminations after 3/6/9 races with 4 drivers being eligible at Homestead. 1821. Waynerd posted: 01.18.2014 - 7:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The part I don't like is that the points will be reset before the final race of the season. That makes the final race of the season way way way way way way way way too important. The final race track needs to be different every year. Article: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/17/4620805/nascar-to-overhaul-points-chase.html#.Utn7vX88KSM 1822. Way nerd posted: 01.18.2014 - 7:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Charlotte observer is reporting that NASCAR is planning on changing the points system so that it highly emphasis winning. They are also reporting nascar is planning to increase the chase to 16 drivers and having an eliminating format for the chase. It also says that one win would basically guarantee you making the chase, which really shows how important winning would be. Wow if this news is true I've been asking for the points system to emphasis winning to and extreme degree forever. I don't think we need a chase. Your down in the points win some a races and your back in it. 1823. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.18.2014 - 8:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Wow, 8 hours later my original post shows up, haha I can't wait to see someone make the Chase by winning a rain shortened race via a couple mystery cautions and then staying out on a fuel conservation run as the weather worsens like Logano's NH win in his rookie year. To the posts that reference the 'Sweet 16', I wouldn't put it past Braindead Brian to pit drivers against each other in a direct competition/elimination format for 3 races at a time rather than having a huge gaggle of 16, then 12, then 8 drivers together. 1824. The Long Shot posted: 01.18.2014 - 8:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I could take or leave the eliminations, considering that whoever is 12th after 3 races generally won't be relevant in the championship battle again, but the fact that they're allowing EVERYBODY who wins a race to get in, potentially at the expense of more deserving drivers, as NRF pointed out, is complete B.S. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but the more I think about it, the more I have to wonder whether or not NASCAR is setting Danica Patrick up to win the Daytona 500 this year. Look at the consequences of her winning. If she does, then she has all but locked herself a position in the Chase, which she wouldn't have done under the old system (even if her results slightly improved from last year, I don't think she would have been a Chase threat). I'm not saying that this is the case, but I do think that NASCAR wants to ensure that if Danica wins a race this year (and I would not be at all surprised if she won one of the restrictor plate tracks), she will be in the Chase. If she won a race but failed to make the Chase, heaven knows what sort of complaints the sanctioning body would be receiving from the "fans". Again, not saying that either of these are true or not, but you really do have to wonder. 1825. Daniel posted: 01.18.2014 - 9:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just when you think Brian France and NASCAR couldn't get any dumber..... 1826. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.18.2014 - 9:43 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I've been trying to think of how to put into words how I feel about these changes and I can't think of it. It is beyond a joke. The original chase was a joke. This? 16 drivers? More dumb changes after a decade full of dumb changes? This sport has simply become pathetic. They want to emphasize winning. Then just drastically increase the bonus points for the race and the chase re-seed. This isn't rocket science. And if you really want to make "sweeping changes" to make drivers try harder throughout the race, then add bonus points for average running position as well as points for leading the 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 marks of the scheduled distance. Or how about this? Eliminate the welfare rules so falling behind actually means something. I just don't get it. 1827. VoteGillilandNotDanica2014 posted: 01.18.2014 - 10:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's not often you hear the dumbest thing you've ever heard. Just keep the current 1 point per position scheme and dump the chase. Jesus, NASCAR is run by a bunch of mental midgets. 1828. jabber1990 posted: 01.18.2014 - 10:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If NASCAR does this, I would advise them not sticking with the same track as the season finale though. Possibly let the tracks bid on it???" I've had this thought too, but do you want to have a race at Michigan, Chicago, Pocono, New Hampshire, or Dover in November? hey I JUST thought about this, this might shut up us who think that NASCAR is trying to let Jimmie win, it looks like they are making it harder for him to win still gimmicky and stupid but something to think about 1829. TS1420 posted: 01.18.2014 - 10:58 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Basically with all these changes in just the 10 short years of the chase, NASCAR is admitting The Chase is a failure. They should just quit being stubborn, swallow their pride and go back to a 36 race championship (with more emphasis on winning, running up front and not stroking it to a "good points day"). But nope. They will continue to poke, prod & tweak The Chase until finally they reach a point were the championship will come down to them putting numbers in a hat and whoever they draw gets the cup. 1830. TS1420 posted: 01.18.2014 - 11:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "hey I JUST thought about this, this might shut up us who think that NASCAR is trying to let Jimmie win, it looks like they are making it harder for him to win" Actually this will probably make it easier for the 48 team to win. -They will win a race early and then test until The Chase starts. -They will then do just good enough to not be eliminated and make the Final Four at Homestead. -They will then only have 1 race to worry about being prefect for in a season, rather than 10. 1831. hamlinfan11 posted: 01.18.2014 - 11:06 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) goodbye good chase:( 1832. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 11:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've had this thought too, but do you want to have a race at Michigan, Chicago, Pocono, New Hampshire, or Dover in November?" I'd be more concerned about the quality of race we would get at a lot of tracks, then I would weather. Still, I maintain that it would be unwise with letting one track have a monopoly on the season finale if we are indeed switching to a "one race, winner takes all" format to decide the Champion. Frankly, even though I know the "plate racing ain't real racing" crowd would hate it, I'd like to see the Daytona 500 be the deciding event. NASCAR's two biggest trophies given out in the same night. Wow, that'd be a lot of fun to watch. 1833. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 11:19 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Actually this will probably make it easier for the 48 team to win. -They will win a race early and then test until The Chase starts. -They will then do just good enough to not be eliminated and make the Final Four at Homestead. -They will then only have 1 race to worry about being prefect for in a season, rather than 10." Seems like a dumb strategy to me...If a driver is planning on doing "just good enough to not be eliminated" wouldn't they want multiple wins heading into The Chase so that they have a cushion when the eliminations start happening? If Jimmie won one race and then "tested" for the rest of the year, he'd probably be seeded somewhere around 11th-16th once The Chase began. That's not comfortable even for a team like the 48 because, frankly, sh** happens. I think teams would take comfortable over a "come from behind, only do good enough not to be eliminated" strategy any day. 1834. hamlinfan11 posted: 01.18.2014 - 11:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I once dreamt that Michael Waltrip won a race and thats all they were talking about. 1835. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, for years (10 actually) NASCAR fans have been saying that The Chase makes the first 26 races mean nothing. I don't agree with that point, but I have now found an idea that would do exactly that... "Good Morning America, twitterville, race fans, my rule change, just wipe the slate clean after 26 races, let everyone race for championship" ^Brought to you by good ole DW. 1836. MStall41 posted: 01.18.2014 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This "leak" of the points system is nothing but a trial balloon. I'm almost 100% certain that NASCAR leaked this on purpose to gauge fan reaction to such a system. I would bet any sum of money that the new system will be much less radical than the one described by Jim Utter. Everyone needs to just relax and hold their vitriol until the actual official announcement is made. It it makes you all feel any better, this is just one of about 5 systems NASCAR is toying with. 1837. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.18.2014 - 12:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This "leak" of the points system is nothing but a trial balloon. I'm almost 100% certain that NASCAR leaked this on purpose to gauge fan reaction to such a system. I would bet any sum of money that the new system will be much less radical than the one described by Jim Utter. Everyone needs to just relax and hold their vitriol until the actual official announcement is made." Well, going by comments of every article I've seen, it's a resounding no. Only the heaviest Kool-Aid drinkers are giving this any kind of positive light. I would believe you about the trial balloon except most of the recent leaks(10 to 12 drivers, wild cards, 43-1(Simpleton) points system) have all come to fruition. "It it makes you all feel any better, this is just one of about 5 systems NASCAR is toying with." Can you entertain us and say if any of these options include eradicating the Chase and/or changing the Simpleton point system? 1838. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is the only 3 things i agree with what NASCAR is sending there: Full-timers only in. Elminations, the cream will still rise too the top. By race #3 you know who will contend (usually). Winning, isn't that what people have been wanting? ^those 3 things are about the ONLY things i agree with. 1839. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Well, going by comments of every article I've seen, it's a resounding no. Only the heaviest Kool-Aid drinkers are giving this any kind of positive light. I would believe you about the trial balloon except most of the recent leaks(10 to 12 drivers, wild cards, 43-1(Simpleton) points system) have all come to fruition." I guess that makes me a heavy Kool-Aid drinker then because I think this will be fun. 1840. MStall41 posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) None of them involve getting rid of the Chase, and that will never ever be an option ever again so it's not worth pining over. NASCAR has a playoff system now, it will always have some sort of a playoff system, and fans will just have to accept that because it is never going back to the old way. 1841. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Here is the only 3 things i agree with what NASCAR is sending there: Full-timers only in. Elminations, the cream will still rise too the top. By race #3 you know who will contend (usually). Winning, isn't that what people have been wanting? ^those 3 things are about the ONLY things i agree with." BTW i'm willing to give what NASCAR *might* do 1 year. I'll give it 1 year too see if a hate it or not. If i don't completely hate it then well i'll deal with it. I have the ORIGINAL Chase 1 year and i didn't hate it (hated it later). I"m willing too give anything a chance but only 1 chance. 1842. Aaron posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why not rename the Daytona 500 "The Super Bowl 500," race it on Christmas Day, make it the last Chase race, and run four 50-lap quarters with a halftime show too? 1843. Aaron posted: 01.18.2014 - 1:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, as a Dale Jr. fan, this new Chase totally sucks because it's for winners only, and Dale Jr.'s style has been to be consistent, never win, and use top-5s and top-10s to run well in the Chase every year. It worked well last season. Basically what NASCAR has done is it's made it nearly impossible for its most popular driver to make the Chase. A guy who's only won once in five years is not gonna suddenly turn it on and win to make the Chase. But, at least we can hope for fewer than 16 drivers to win the first 26 races. Otherwise NASCAR's most popular driver will be fighting for a 17th-place finish in points every year. Not exactly a smart decision (eliminating its most popular driver from its playoffs w/new rules) for a sport already gasping for air. This won't help ratings. 1844. Sean posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm afraid to disagree with everyone on this, but I actually dislike this idea less than I dislike the chase as it presently exists. IF the chase is supposed to be a playoff (and I'm not sure whether NASCAR thinks it's supposed to be a playoff or not) then it needs to have eliminations like all other playoffs do. Additionally, I'm happy to see NASCAR actually significantly award winning for once rather than Clint Bowyeresque stroking. In general I would rather see winners in the chase (even if it's some restrictor plate/road course fluke) than 10th-12th place strokers who finish in the top ten every week without ever being competitive, and those drivers are pretty much guaranteed to be in the chase as it is currently structured. I do think 16 drivers is too many, and if they really want to go with this, I'd recommend 8: the top 5 in points and the three drivers with the most wins outside the top 5 in points, which would be the best way of reflecting consistency AND dominance. I think being in the top 5 in points after 26 races is showing enough consistency that even if a driver has no wins they should be in the championship battle, but I'd WAY rather see winners than back of the top ten strokers. Then have a cut to 4 after four races and a cut to 2 after seven races, allowing for a three-race championship fight to end the season (2011 among other seasons proved that the last three races tend to be/can be the most compelling). Having the cut after race 7 instead of race 9 would diminish the luck factor SOMEWHAT. That would be the better way to do this, and if NASCAR chose to do it like this, I'd honestly think it's an improvement over what we've currently got. HAVING SAID THAT, "dislike the idea less" does not mean I'm in favor of it. Of course just like most others I would prefer for points to be accumulated over a 36-race schedule with a points system that is far less biased towards consistency and weighting mid-pack finishes much more than DNFs, but I agree with Matt that that's never going to happen - I just disagree with Matt on the value of playoffs in general, even where they presently exist. If they're going to position this as a playoff, they need to have eliminations. However, I find the idea of playoffs in general to be stupid, even in the "stick and ball" sports where they're established. Defenders of things like the World Series and the Super Bowl argue that certain athletes elevate their game in the Finals, but to me what you do over the entire season is more important and almost all championships determined the traditional way emphasize the luck factor over the skill factor, so I'm not a fan of playoffs at ALL in general. They all seem to be made-for-TV gimmicks over a short period that stress a small percentage of the season at the expense of a much larger regular season. Playoffs do make more sense in other sports when not all teams have the opportunity to play other teams, but if you are a fan of other sports, you can't argue that they don't artificially weight a certain portion of the season at the expense of the majority of the season (somewhat less in the NBA and NHL when the playoffs are about as long as half the season, and skill is probably rewarded much more there than in the NFL or NCAA tournaments especially...) Awarding the MLB title to the team that won the most games out of 162 would be boring, but it would be in some sense fairer. Why is it not done? Tradition, the same argument against the chase. But since I don't like playoffs in general, I definitely want the chase to go away, but it's hard for me to think of an argument against it that won't argue against the existence of established playoffs in other sports, except for tradition, because a chase advocate can talk about certain drivers "raising their game" just as fans of traditional playoffs do (i.e. Tony Stewart in 2011). I think playoffs in general are gimmicks for people with short attention spans or who don't wish to follow an entire season... They're exciting but they do not properly reflect who the best performer was. Racing had an edge here and NASCAR is choosing to throw it away, as is Formula One, which wants to award double points for its season finale... IndyCar's points system continues to look better in comparison to either, but even they have some gimmicks I despise (bonus qualifying points for Indy - somewhat understandable, and Iowa - flatly ridiculous). While I'm not a fan of playoffs anywhere, they work less well in racing because NASCAR insists on having the drivers that don't make the playoffs stay on the track. If they seriously just had 8 (or 16) cars left on the track after race 26, with eliminated cars not entered in the succeeding races, that would be just as fair as a playoff in any other sport. Imagine how much the sponsors would like that! Not much... So yeah, 36 races with a better points system. I just don't get how this is worse than the current chase that can reward stroking (Kurt Busch in 2004 over Johnson and Gordon), I don't find NRF's argument believable since there will almost NEVER be 16 winners in the first 26 races and his hypothetical 26 top 5 driver would still always make the chase as a result, and a playoff needs to have multiple eliminations; that just doesn't work for racing. I'm one of the few people who thinks it doesn't work all that well with regard to other sports too. "Just keep the current 1 point per position scheme and dump the chase." Ugh ugh ugh. I actually find a 1-point-per-position scheme WORSE than the chase. When combined WITH the chase, it's admittedly even worse. "And if you really want to make "sweeping changes" to make drivers try harder throughout the race, then add bonus points for average running position as well as points for leading the 1/4, 1/2, and 3/4 marks of the scheduled distance. Or how about this? Eliminate the welfare rules so falling behind actually means something." Now I absolutely agree with this. "Somebody's let the lunatics out again. If only there were more people in the world like Randy Bernard" Wait, WHAT?! Randy Bernard was just as much of a gimmickmeister as anyone in NASCAR history, including Humpy Wheeler. Bernard actually had a points race at Texas in 2011 with a random draw to set the starting field leading to a car that crashed in the first race starting in the front row, scheduled the Las Vegas debacle that killed Dan Wheldon and forced him to start last, and he actually tweeted that car owners wanted him fired before he was fired. He was totally unprofessional and in my opinion was much worse than both Brian France and Tony George in a lot of ways, PLUS his marketing gimmicks continued to fail as IndyCar continued to lose popularity even as the racing was becoming much more exciting. I do give him credit for finally getting the 2012 IndyCar chassis off the ground which did greatly improve the racing, but that's it. Hiring a guy from Professional Bull Riders with no racing experience was never going to go well, and he seemed to alienate everyone except the fans. I really don't understand why the fans actually LIKED him. 1845. Sean posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "But, at least we can hope for fewer than 16 drivers to win the first 26 races." How often DO 16 or more drivers win in the first 26 races? Without looking it up, I would guess that NEVER happened in the entire modern era of NASCAR. 1846. Aaron posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It definitely didn't happen last year Sean, but consider the guys who are vying to win on a weekly basis. There are 15 or 16 there. Then, factor in anybody can win the bullshit Daytona and Talladega races. So 16 different winners are certainly possible. Especially if Jimmie goes easy on them. 1847. Sean posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2003 appears to be the only modern-era season that had 16 winners in the first 26 races. I'm surprised that actually happened once... 1848. murb posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I do think 16 drivers is too many, and if they really want to go with this, I'd recommend 8: the top 5 in points and the three drivers with the most wins outside the top 5 in points, which would be the best way of reflecting consistency AND dominance." Totally, totally agree with this. The 16 drivers part is the part that makes me cringe. If it were just 8 like you are talking about, I think I could actually live with this elimination format. 1849. MStall41 posted: 01.18.2014 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My views on this probably align closest to Sean, minus his dislike of playoff systems in general. I think there is some value to this system. The only real part I haven't reconciled with is the notion of 16 drivers. Gonna take some time to digest that one. 1850. David posted: 01.18.2014 - 3:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This "leak" of the points system is nothing but a trial balloon. I'm almost 100% certain that NASCAR leaked this on purpose to gauge fan reaction to such a system. I would bet any sum of money that the new system will be much less radical than the one described by Jim Utter." For once, I hope you are right. "However, I find the idea of playoffs in general to be stupid, even in the "stick and ball" sports where they're established. Defenders of things like the World Series and the Super Bowl argue that certain athletes elevate their game in the Finals, but to me what you do over the entire season is more important and almost all championships determined the traditional way emphasize the luck factor over the skill factor, so I'm not a fan of playoffs at ALL in general. They all seem to be made-for-TV gimmicks over a short period that stress a small percentage of the season at the expense of a much larger regular season. Playoffs do make more sense in other sports when not all teams have the opportunity to play other teams, but if you are a fan of other sports, you can't argue that they don't artificially weight a certain portion of the season at the expense of the majority of the season (somewhat less in the NBA and NHL when the playoffs are about as long as half the season, and skill is probably rewarded much more there than in the NFL or NCAA tournaments especially...) Awarding the MLB title to the team that won the most games out of 162 would be boring, but it would be in some sense fairer. Why is it not done? Tradition, the same argument against the chase. But since I don't like playoffs in general, I definitely want the chase to go away, but it's hard for me to think of an argument against it that won't argue against the existence of established playoffs in other sports, except for tradition, because a chase advocate can talk about certain drivers "raising their game" just as fans of traditional playoffs do (i.e. Tony Stewart in 2011). I think playoffs in general are gimmicks for people with short attention spans or who don't wish to follow an entire season... They're exciting but they do not properly reflect who the best performer was." Exactly. Playoffs are exciting, I won't deny that (I love me some March Madness), but obviously exist for the sole purpose of TV ratings and ticket sales. And they can rob the deserving team of a championship. As for MLB, they wouldn't even have to get rid of the World Series; they could just return to the pre-1969 system in which the best overall AL team plays the best overall NL team. "2003 appears to be the only modern-era season that had 16 winners in the first 26 races. I'm surprised that actually happened once..." Really? I would have guessed 2011, since the most races anyone won that year was five, and they were all during the Chase. 1851. The Long Shot posted: 01.18.2014 - 3:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If NASCAR really wants a 16-car Chase, then include all the winners 20th in points or higher, filling in the remaining spots by points. It's the only fair thing to do. The fact that some people would rather see drivers who managed a fluke win in a rain-out or on a restrictor-plate but were otherwise uncompetitive rather than drivers who were at least semi-competitive on a regular basis despite never getting to victory lane is baffling to me. I ask you this: who deserves a chance at the championship more, Jamie McMurray or David Ragan? Paul Menard or Dave Blaney? Aric Almirola or (god-forbid) Danica Patrick? Maybe I'm the only one who believes this, but I'd rather reward those who can contend for top 10's fairly regularly than those who manage to win one race, but are completely uncompetitive/start-and-park otherwise. 1852. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.18.2014 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I once dreamt that Michael Waltrip won a race and thats all they were talking about. " What a NIGHTMARE! 1853. The Long Shot posted: 01.18.2014 - 3:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Playoffs are exciting, I won't deny that (I love me some March Madness), but obviously exist for the sole purpose of TV ratings and ticket sales. And they can rob the deserving team of a championship." In fairness, it can go the other way, too. There are always going to be the teams that got in because of a ridiculously easy schedule. With the playoffs, those teams are generally eliminated from the title hunt pretty rapidly (this year's Kansas City Chiefs are a prime example). 1854. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "In fairness, it can go the other way, too. There are always going to be the teams that got in because of a ridiculously easy schedule. With the playoffs, those teams are generally eliminated from the title hunt pretty rapidly (this year's Kansas City Chiefs are a prime example)." And, in fairness, what happened to the Chiefs would likely happen in NASCAR. David Ragan, David Gilliland, Danica Patrick gets a fluke win and gets in, but then get eliminated after the race 3 eliminations. 1855. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.18.2014 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Exactly. Playoffs are exciting, I won't deny that (I love me some March Madness), but obviously exist for the sole purpose of TV ratings and ticket sales. And they can rob the deserving team of a championship." That's because people watch sports to be entertained. Generally speaking, most fans don't care about who deserved it more, they care about who put on the best show to get there. 1856. The Long Shot posted: 01.18.2014 - 4:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And, in fairness, what happened to the Chiefs would likely happen in NASCAR. David Ragan, David Gilliland, Danica Patrick gets a fluke win and gets in, but then get eliminated after the race 3 eliminations." Exactly. That's why I hate the system so much. Instead of drivers who could at least pose a bit of a threat, such as a McMurray or even a Kyle Larson-type, you'll get these "Chase field-fillers" like Ragan who won't be a threat and will simply use up a spot. 1857. The Long Shot posted: 01.18.2014 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) By the way, Mason Mingus will run full-time in Trucks next season for WinTron Racing. 1858. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.18.2014 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I really don't understand why the fans actually LIKED him." Perhaps because Randy gave IIRC fans hope for "the good old days" (same disease that has infected NASCAR fans) were Indycar is #1 and NASCAR is #2. Randy did everything he could (ethical or not) too get Indycar headlines and he did... when he left is when Indycar got headlines. Indycar is dieing because fans don't give a poop. Indycar fans are even upset that Alen Bestwick is in the booth for Indycar races coming up here soon. If anything, Indycar fans are worse then NASCAR fans but isn't by much. 1859. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.18.2014 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) 16 drivers that all get in via wins and the bottom spots, if not filled by wins, are done by highest amounts of points. Then you have the whole elimination system of 16-12-8-4. You want to know what I think of this? This sucks. For one, all it takes is a Set-Up win for Danica Patrick and she's suddenly a chase contender. Nascar becomes more politically correct. And don't think NASCAR wouldn't set up a race for a driver to win. I still think that the 2001 Pepsi 400, 1998 Daytona 500, and possibly the opening of the 1992 Pepsi 400 was set up. Not to mention, does anyone remeber the story behind Wendell Scott's win? That is a way of setting up races also, and they wouldn't have an inkling of a problem doing it. Dale Jr, who hardly ever wins races because he likes the consistency strategy would be automatically be out. Jeff Gordon would become pretty much forgotten as a champion because I sincerely doubt if he has any wins left in him. A part-time team like Wood Bros. could suddenly walk off with the championship. Now I have no problems with a Part-time team and I don't have a bone to pick with the Wood Bros. That being said, I could not get behind a champion that runs less then 32 races of a 36 race season. Because by that point, you're not even trying. Just think here, all it takes is a bunch of penalties, 'debris' cautions, pit lane speeding penalties, and accidental shuffling on the scoring board, and suddenly NASCAR has literally turned into what it has been accused of for years, Wrestling. Nascar's sanctioning body has done alot of these things before. Anyone remeber Harvick's bullsh*t penalty from 2010 on pit lane or the in-numerable Debris Caution Fiascos!? Yes, maybe this is a way to prevent another situation like Spin-gate from occurring last season, but it is no excuse. I can easily see where NASCAR could go with this. Give Johnson his 7th Championship, give Danica Patrick, of all people, a Championship in 2015, and then from 2016 on out give it to Austin Dillon because he's in the #3 and give it to anyone else who they think is noteworthy! By all means, I don't support this, and if NASCAR takes up this point system or a point system that uses eliminations/win-an-in/More then 12 drivers, I will stop watching NASCAR except for the crashes in post-race highlight reels. Completely stop. Yes, maybe I'm over-reacting! Yes, these are all extreme worst-case scenarios! But It could still happen, and with all the little pieces of sh*t that has been pulled before, I actively stand against this! NASCAR has been a big part of my life for 10 years. But if bullsh*t like this goes into effect, I will instantly cut this out. There are other things in my life that can easily take the place of NASCAR racing if they start doing stuff like this. 1860. Sean posted: 01.19.2014 - 12:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1998 Daytona 500" Dude, what? Certainly Earnhardt struggled for most of the 1997-1999 seasons, but he continued to consistently run up front on the plate tracks in those years in pretty much every single race. His 500 win was hardly out of the blue. Now the other two races, you have a better argument. Junior was supposedly driving on three quarter throttle and escaping the draft by himself in the 2001 Pepsi 400, and Richard Petty was competitive nowhere in 1992, so those cases are fishier-looking (and the Pepsi 400 has a rather disgraceful history in general as well considering Greg Sacks and Jimmy Spencer getting away with cheating to win their first races in that event), but Earnhardt was relevant on the plate tracks for his entire career, so how can you possibly argue that? 1861. Sean posted: 01.19.2014 - 12:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I also don't think you have much to worry about with regard to Danica Patrick and Austin Dillon making the chase on some fluke because they'd very likely be eliminated in the first cut and if they weren't that would be quite frankly shocking. 1862. joey2448 posted: 01.19.2014 - 3:15 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) In other news, Kurt Busch said he'll "have a pretty good indication" by the end of January whether or not he plans to race in the Indy 500.... 1863. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.19.2014 - 6:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "For one, all it takes is a Set-Up win for Danica Patrick and she's suddenly a chase contender. Nascar becomes more politically correct. And don't think NASCAR wouldn't set up a race for a driver to win. I still think that the 2001 Pepsi 400, 1998 Daytona 500, and possibly the opening of the 1992 Pepsi 400 was set up. Not to mention, does anyone remeber the story behind Wendell Scott's win? That is a way of setting up races also, and they wouldn't have an inkling of a problem doing it. Dale Jr, who hardly ever wins races because he likes the consistency strategy would be automatically be out. Jeff Gordon would become pretty much forgotten as a champion because I sincerely doubt if he has any wins left in him. A part-time team like Wood Bros. could suddenly walk off with the championship. Now I have no problems with a Part-time team and I don't have a bone to pick with the Wood Bros. That being said, I could not get behind a champion that runs less then 32 races of a 36 race season. Because by that point, you're not even trying. " Dude, what? I could see NASCAR fixing one for Danica (if that hack could drive a car to a pole, then she could easily run up front too). I understand your Junior point in 2001 (though when I presented the exact same evidence some years back about that race, I got laughed out of the joint). I understand the Richard Petty point, but again it's a plate race. Given a car that isn't total turd, James Freaking Hylton could win a plate race. I can't comment on 1998; for every reason you can argue it was fixed, you can argue it wasn't. Jeremy Smoke-a-bowl Mayfield nearly won that thing. I must crucify you on the Wendell Scott thing though. They pissed in his water bottle on that one. They didn't even give him the real trophy, just a little wooden replica. They only buckled when they were damned by concrete evidence. I agree on the Dale Jr./Jeff Gordon point. It would seem wrong if the two most consistent guys in the sport over the last five years missed out because they didn't win a race. I think this is backlash over the fact that Bowyer was so high in points this year before the Chase. That said, a team like the Wood Bros. would never walk off with the title, but somebody like Martin Truex Jr. or Marcos Ambrose, who are hardly elite, could if they get streaky at the right time. There is one penalty to me that is suspect, and that is the speeding penalty. And I say that because during the broadcasts when the speedometer is shown, it is always pulled about 2 seconds before they hit the speed trap. It is the one penalty administered under racing conditions which we are denied the right to see the empirical evidence of. 1864. Waynerd posted: 01.19.2014 - 6:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster I noticed a slight mistake on the website. Ron Hornaday this year never got points for 5th place finish at homestead , in the final standings. He had 612 points after Phoenix and in the final standings he has 612 points. Nothing major, first mistake I ever saw in the site :) 1865. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.19.2014 - 9:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Don't see where the '98 Daytona 500 is fishy. As was said earlier, he was always up front at plate races. In those 3 injury years ('97-'99) plate races were about the only place he was truly competitive. In fact, the Thursday before the 500, Dale won his 9th consecutive Qualifier race, which he would push to 10 the next season. Here are his plate races in the Monte Carlo era ('95-'00). 1995: Daytona- 2nd (23 laps led) Dega- 21st (got spun on the last lap) Daytona- 3rd Dega- 3rd (20 laps led) 1996: Daytona- 2nd (32 laps led) Dega- 3rd (26 laps led) Daytona- 4th Dega- 28th (The Crash, led 40 of the 117 laps he completed) 1997: Daytona- 31st (led 48 laps, flipped late, still finished race) Dega- 2nd (78 laps led) Daytona- 4th Dega- 29th (25 laps led, 21 laps down) 1998: Daytona- 1st (107 laps led) Dega- 36th (clipped by Ward, another bone crunching flip) Dega- 32nd (rear end failure) Daytona- 10th (41 laps led) 1999: Daytona- 2nd Dega- 1st (70 laps led) Daytona- 2nd Dega- 1st 2000: Daytona- 21st (Mr Bill France Sr would.....) Dega- 3rd Daytona- 8th Dega- 1st (EPIC! Final victory in the final Winston 500) 1866. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.19.2014 - 9:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Webmaster I noticed a slight mistake on the website. Ron Hornaday this year never got points for 5th place finish at homestead , in the final standings. He had 612 points after Phoenix and in the final standings he has 612 points. Nothing major, first mistake I ever saw in the site :)" The truck he raced in was probably entered past the entry deadline. IIRC, he originally wasn't going to race Homestead but got a ride at the last minute. 1867. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.19.2014 - 11:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) 1998: Daytona- 1st (107 laps led) Dega- 36th (clipped by Ward, another bone crunching flip) Actually, that will Bill Elliot who 'flipped' in that race. Dale Sr. just went into the wall with him tra-la-la Sterling Marlin and Dale Sr 1996. The rear of Dale's car did end up kind 'on top' the underside of Elliot's car as that machine slid on it's side down the exit of the Tri-Oval. - - - - - I must crucify you on the Wendell Scott thing though. They pissed in his water bottle on that one. They didn't even give him the real trophy, just a little wooden replica. They only buckled when they were damned by concrete evidence. I think I might not have communicated myself well enough here. It was blatantly obvious that he had won that race, but they didn't credit him with the victory for SOOOOO long. What I'm saying is that all it takes is for NASCAR to have another incident like that, but later on don't credit the guy who really won the race for winning it. 1868. MStall41 posted: 01.19.2014 - 11:54 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Dale Sr. was in a class all by himself during the era being discussed above. He was untouchable. That man had more plate racing skills in his pinky than the entire 2013 Sprint Cup Series field had in total. Nothing fishy about any of his wins then. 1869. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.19.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I heard yesterday about the rumors of the "new" points system: I don't really have much original to add here, but I will just say this: NASCAR just needs to find something decent and STICK with it. It's hard to take a championship seriously when it's being changed every other year. 1870. SpeedWorld97 posted: 01.19.2014 - 1:44 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Well I've had a few days to reflect on these ridiculous changes NASCAR is planning to make to the already ridiculous chase, and I must say that if these do go into effect I'm really going to stop watching these Cup races. I'm absolutely sick and tired of NASCAR finding ways to ruin the sport even more than they already have. Not to mention, all fans on social media and sports websites seem to hate these ideas just as much. It just doesn't make sense that NASCAR knows they are losing more and more fans every year, yet they propose the dumbest ideas which only drive even more fans away. I sincerely hope that NASCAR never puts these ideas into action for this year. I know that we'll probably never have a pre-2004 season with no chase at all ever again, but I hope that the chase format doesn't get any worse than what we currently have right now. "Dale Jr, who hardly ever wins races because he likes the consistency strategy would be automatically be out. Jeff Gordon would become pretty much forgotten as a champion because I sincerely doubt if he has any wins left in him." That's exactly it. You have to wonder what NASCAR is thinking doing this, as Dale and Jeff are two huge fan favorites nowadays. Having them in the chase is almost necessary for good ratings. Does anyone else remember back in 2009-2010 when chase tv ratings were absolutely pitiful mainly because Dale Jr. wasn't in the chase? "In other news, Kurt Busch said he'll "have a pretty good indication" by the end of January whether or not he plans to race in the Indy 500...." Probably won't happen, mainly because Greg Zipadelli is a kill-joy and doesn't want Stewart-Haas drivers (Stewart and Patrick as well) doing the Double on Memorial Day weekend. lol 1871. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 01.19.2014 - 1:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I figured there'd be some commentary on the proposed point system... Let them implement it and then sit and smell their own poop...of course they'll claim it smells like roses and NBC and FOX will happily agree. Enough gimmicks, pick something and stay with it. A convoluted points system is NOT going to grow the fan base because new fans will not be interested in trying to figure out the eliminations and all these either looney toon ideas. It will do nothing but alienate a lot of the existing fan base. 1872. DB1995 posted: 01.19.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I haven't done this yet, so here it gors. 2014 Cup Champion Brad Keselowski- Both he and his crew come back from 2013 wit h a vengeance and go head to head with Jimmie Johnson, Kenseth, and Ky. Busch at Homestead (assuming the new points system is put in action) 2014 nationwide champ Trevor Bayne, in my opinion he and Mike Kelley never gelled together, and that hurt last year. He gets Chad Norris back this year, and with Chad Norris on the box 2010- 1 Race, 11th at Fontana in the 5th Roush car 2011- 7 races, 5 top 10's, Won at Texas, worst finish 13th at Bristol 2012- 5 races, 3 top 10's, 1 Top 5, worst of 14th at Fontana Through 13 races with Chad 8 top 10's with a worst finish of 14th Average finish 8th, not spectacular, but it is something they can work with. 2014 truck champion Timothy Peters- He is a Force on the short track, but he has to stay consistent at the 1.5 milers and Plate tracks which have been his weakness the past 2 seasons 1873. murb posted: 01.19.2014 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hamlin and Keselowski are both raving about this new proposed system on Twitter. Can't wait to see them bumped out of the Chase just because Ambrose wins a road course race. Really not looking forward to this system. 1874. The Long Shot posted: 01.19.2014 - 3:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bob Pockrass of Sporting News and Matt Crossman of Sports On Earth have written some really good articles discussing the points system. I highly recommend checking them out. The controversy they seem to focus on (which I don't think we have) is that the eliminations would also include additional points resets, so that the final Homestead race would be nothing more than a winner-take-all shootout between the 4 remaining drivers, which is outrageous. "NASCAR has been a big part of my life for 10 years. But if bullsh*t like this goes into effect, I will instantly cut this out. There are other things in my life that can easily take the place of NASCAR racing if they start doing stuff like this." "I must say that if these do go into effect I'm really going to stop watching these Cup races. I'm absolutely sick and tired of NASCAR finding ways to ruin the sport even more than they already have." I can't speak for you or for anybody else, but I've only followed this sport since 2007/2008, and it would take a lot more than this for me to stop watching NASCAR. I might not follow the championship battle as closely, but I'll still watch the races as much as I normally do. 1875. jabber1990 posted: 01.19.2014 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) there are 36 or 39 cup races a year, you don't know who's going to win the race you watch because you want to see who's going to win the race yes, we know who's going to win the title but I don't usually care because its not what I came to see, plus winning the title means 3 months of no NASCAR 1876. joey2448 posted: 01.19.2014 - 4:51 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Exactly, Jabber, I would rather see good racing each and every week, even if that means a driver clinches the title a race early, rather than seeing an exciting (but artificial) points battle with boring racing. 1877. MStall41 posted: 01.19.2014 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) People who say they will quit watching NASCAR because of this that and the other are hilarious. Those people NEVER quit watching, and this change will not make them stop watching. Just silly empty threats. People who truly have had enough of NASCAR wouldn't care enough to post on a super-niche fan forum. 1878. TS1420 posted: 01.19.2014 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Hamlin and Keselowski are both raving about this new proposed system on Twitter. Can't wait to see them bumped out of the Chase just because Ambrose wins a road course race." Hamlin is probably too afraid to speak out against NASCAR's "latest & greatest invention" after the penalty he got for speaking out against the Gen 6 last year. And I agree with the last two posts 100%. The end of the 1999, 2000, 2001 & 2003 seasons were still exciting to watch even though the championship was a forgone conclusion with a month or more of racing left. Hell, they were better than so called "Exciting Chase Races" because the championship wasn't really worth covering and broadcasters actually focused on the races (unlike chase races that focus 99.9% solely on the chasers) 1879. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.19.2014 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) For those of you guys that are not agreement with these new proposed changes(which I think is the majority including me) you seriously need to read Matt Weaver's new editorial on popularspeed.com entitled "NASCAR's New Direction Will Risk Everything". He doesn't pull any punches in this one. 1880. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.19.2014 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "For those of you guys that are not agreement with these new proposed changes(which I think is the majority including me) you seriously need to read Matt Weaver's new editorial on popularspeed.com entitled "NASCAR's New Direction Will Risk Everything". He doesn't pull any punches in this one." The article linked at the bottom of the above mentioned story called 'Proposed Chase Changes: Pandering Personified' is even better. 1881. murb posted: 01.19.2014 - 6:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hamlin is probably too afraid to speak out against NASCAR's "latest & greatest invention" after the penalty he got for speaking out against the Gen 6 last year." Yeah, probably. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the drivers like it, since everyone gets a medal with this "16 cars make the playoffs" system. 1882. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 01.19.2014 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (6) (1) Of course the drivers are going to agree with NASCAR, they have no option, unless they want to be fined. It's obvious they're all pressured to toe the company line. France, Pemberton, Darby and the boys all have their heads in the sand and feel tons of pressure to fulfill excitement to the new TV contracts and to attract new NASCAR sponsors. No offense to the new fans, but you can't fully comprehend how significant these past 10 years have been for NASCAR in a negative manner. Honestly, I predict that within the next few years, we'll have timed races, an even more expanded and tweaked Cha$e and an entirely new fan base. I literally expect for a new motto of "Fan Involvement" where fan interaction will make a difference in points races. All NASCAR media faces want to put huge distances between NASCAR and stick and ball sports by bringing up what great "fan experiences" NASCAR events bring to the table. However, the blowhards in charge want to do nothing but conform NASCAR into a stick and ball sport, due to TV pressures. A majority of the fans go to NASCAR races to see what a great environment NASCAR has, not solely to see the Cha$e advertisements every single second. If every single year needs to have a "Game 7 Moment", then the people in charge aren't doing a great job of providing a good product on the track. An intense points battle every year eventually takes away the luster from intense moments. France and his cronies feel the need to artificially create an intense moment at the end of every November to cover for what has been terrible rule changes and race officiating over the past few years. NASCAR thought the new fan base, ADD NATION, would benefit them for the long run. However, after a few years, most of them have moved on, leaving NASCAR with an alienated fan base from the original die hard demographic. With the delusional geniuses in charge, they'll never admit to just how bad they have messed things up. I can't believe there are people who are questioning why NASCAR tries to cover up its storied history. It's obvious the NASCAR marketing team wants to bring in fans by social media, wrecks and "Game 7 Moments." What about the on track product? They could care less. They'd rather have a late race debris caution bunch the field back up for multiple GWC finishes and tons of carnage. I am sick and tired of hearing the talking heads mention the word "drama". I don't watch NASCAR for "drama." I watch NASCAR to see close racing and different personalities. These days, we see all 43 drivers parked together in the motor coach lot and more Twitter messages than actual interviews. Sorry if I'm not into that. I would rather see competition between the drivers skill-sets on the track. 1883. TS1420 posted: 01.19.2014 - 10:03 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Kaepernick with shades of Romo to end out the 4th Quarter of the NFC Championship Game. The Best Offense vs The Best Defense in The Super Bowl. Richard Sherman is such a mouthy, classless, arrogant twat and I hope he gets embarrassed all night long on the biggest stage of all. 1884. Scott. B posted: 01.19.2014 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) You know what I'd like to see as a season ending event? Move the Open and All Star races. And when I say races, I do mean races, not exhibitions. No segment gimmicks, no fan votes. The winner of the open advances to the main, along with the winners of the 36 points races. Make it a big money payout even though it's a non-points race, and you have a nice bookend to the Daytona 500. 1885. Scott. B posted: 01.19.2014 - 10:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As far as the proposed playoff system, I don't see how it does much to reward winning. The elimination after race three of the Chase in particular rewards consistency, since anyone unlucky enough to DNF in races 27, 28 or 29 would be very likely out of the championship picture no matter how many of the first 26 races they won, or how well they recovered and ran for the final 7 races. 1886. joey2448 posted: 01.20.2014 - 12:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I thought Richard Sherman's post-game interview was hilarious, and I love players that talk, but he'd better be able to back it up. Fortunately for him, I believe he can back it up. But he better be careful what comes out of his mouth... Really looking forward to the Super Bowl. The top offense vs. the top defense, both 13-3 teams, no. 1 in their conference. One quarterback is a tested veteran, one is a freeslinging rookie (well, technically a second-year player). I really don't know who to root for. 1887. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.20.2014 - 4:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) NASCAR: Necrotic Amalgamation of Stupid Clusterf*cking Asinine Retards 1888. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.20.2014 - 7:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 1882, Fan Involvement already happens, its called the "Fan Council." And fans want too be involved, circa the Fan Council. Sorry dude NASCAR is ahead of you already. They send out surveys every month or every other month. And a few of my friends who members of council take pleasure ( 1889. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.20.2014 - 12:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Post 1882, Fan Involvement already happens, its called the "Fan Council." And fans want too be involved, circa the Fan Council. Sorry dude NASCAR is ahead of you already. They send out surveys every month or every other month. And a few of my friends who members of council take pleasure" I'll finish this post: they take pleasure in doing those surveys. I read it endlessy on facebook when ever they get one. 1890. The Long Shot posted: 01.20.2014 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Justin Allison will run full-time in ARCA next year for Team BCR Racing, driving the #88 HAVACOSALES.COM Ford. 1891. Daniel posted: 01.20.2014 - 2:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post 1877: Nope, it's already happening. Several of my relatives have quit watching and I barely watched any of the racing the second half of last year. I don't plan on watch any races besides the Duels this year. Why do you think Texas isn't selling tickets for the backstretch anymore? Do you honestly think Daytona would've cut seating capacity if people were still going there and still interested in the sport? Initial entry list for the ARCA Daytona race is out with 35 currently entered (team listed to the side): #0 Barry Fitzgerald (Wayne Peterson Racing) #02 Josh Williams (Josh Williams) #06 Ed Pompa (Wayne Peterson Racing) #2 Thomas Praytor (Hixson Motorsports) #3 TBA (Hixson Motorsports) #5 Bobby Gerhart (Bill Gerhart) #7 Brent Cross (Bill Gerhart) #8 TBA (Empire Racing) #9 Chase Elliott (Bill Elliott) #10 TBA (Fast Track Racing) #12 Jared Marks (Tony Marks Racing) #15 John Wes Townley (Venturini Motorsports) #22 Tyler Reddick (Cunningham Motorsports) #23 Spencer Gallagher (GMS Racing) #25 Justin Boston (Venturini Motorsports) #32 Terry Jones (WinTron Racing) #33 Kody Weisner (Tony Marks Racing) #35 TBA (Venturini Motorsports) #39 Mario Gosselin (Roulo Brothers Racing) #48 TBA (James Hylton Racing) #54 Matt Kurzejewski (Dan Kurzejewski) #55 Leilani Munter (Venturini Motorsports) #56 Derrick Lancaster (Danny Glad) #57 Bryan Dauzat (Bryan Dauzat Racing) #66 Mark Thompson (Venturini Motorsports) #68 Chris Bailey Jr. (Kimmel Racing) #69 Will Kimmel (Kimmel Racing) #75 TBA (Bob Schacht Motorsports) #77 Tom Hessert III (Cunningham Motorsports) #82 TBA (Empire Racing) #86 Bobby Grewohl (Fox Motorsports) #88 Justin Allison (Team BCR) #90 Grant Enfinger (Team BCR) #98 Mason Mitchell (Mason Mitchell Racing) #99 Buster Graham (Roulo Brothers Racing) 1892. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.20.2014 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Richard Sherman is a hack and a classless moron who makes you feel stupid for caring about sports. First off, he isn't the best CB in football by a longshot. Seattle has the best safeties in the league, so he knows they are there to cover his deficiencies which allows him to jump routes and pad his INT totals. That play at the end he broke up, HE WAS BEAT! Crabtree, the "sorry" receiver he spoke of, beat him. Kap just underthrew it. The shame is, outside of his worthless ass, Seattle is a fun team to root for. Their fans are dedicated and the fun kind of crazy. Russell Wilson is a good QB (would be much better if the play callers would take the handcuffs off him) and one of the best guys in all of sports. And Marshawn Lynch is the most fun RB to watch in the league. And Earl Thomas is the true heart of that defense, the best secondary player in the league who lets his play do the talking. I wish he wasn't there screwing it up. Which brings me to my last point. If you are so good, as Sherman claims he is, then you shouldn't have to tell people how good you are. Your play should say it all. The fact he has to make such a spectacle of himself and talk himself up so big shows he isn't the best or even elite. He needs to quit making his great team and great fans look like idiots. 1893. cja posted: 01.20.2014 - 3:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Confirmed today Alex Bowman and Ryan Truex to race for BK Racing in 2014 1894. The Long Shot posted: 01.20.2014 - 3:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sherman didn't go on that rant just because he merely wanted to trash-talk Crabtree. He is embracing the bad-guy image that is surrounding himself and the Seahawks, and by doing this, he's guaranteeing that the spotlight entering "The Marijuana Bowl" will be focused on himself and the Seahawks. Does he truly believe that he is the best cornerback in the league? Very likely, but remember: this is a very smart guy we are talking about. He graduated 2nd in his class out of high school, and he went to college at Stanford, majoring in communications. That wasn't a delusional fool you saw on TV last night: that is a very shrewd and calculating individual who saw an opportunity to grant himself and the team free press and seized it about as well as he possibly could have. Terrell Owens and Chad Ochocinco did the same thing, and look how well it worked out for them. I'm not saying that what he did was right, because I hate trash-talking with all my being, but from a PR standpoint, this is a brilliant move, and I have no choice but to applaud his efforts. 1895. The Long Shot posted: 01.20.2014 - 3:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Confirmed today Alex Bowman and Ryan Truex to race for BK Racing in 2014" May their careers (and engines) rest in peace. 1896. Schroeder51 posted: 01.20.2014 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I haven't commented on NASCAR's proposed changes to the Chase, and to be honest...that's because most of the rest of you have said exactly how I feel about it. It's utterly ridiculous and I totally get the feeling that NASCAR is trying hard to get that hipster/trendy fanbase at the cost of possibly driving away a good number of its' loyal fans. While I wouldn't stop watching NASCAR if they actually implement this system, I really hope they don't do this because I'm getting really sick of these silly gimmicks. I watch the sport for RACING, not because of goofy gimmicks put in place to ensure excitement. If I wanted to watch the WWE, I'd just go ahead and watch that. Nice to see Alex Bowman and Ryan Truex get a shot at Cup, although I do think it's definitely a bit too soon for either of them...and with BK Racing? Good grief, that team is going to go through possibly even more cars this year than they did last year! Still, that's what...eight RotY candidates now? At least we've got an actual rookie battle this year! 1897. murb posted: 01.20.2014 - 4:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Bowman will drive the newly renumbered 23 car (for Dr Pepper's 23 flavors), and Truex will drive the 83. So it looks like we can add two more rookies to this year's stacked rookie class. I'm in an interesting spot with this Super Bowl, since Denver and Seattle are the two teams everyone here in Idaho root for (there's also a lot of bandwagon Steelers fans too for some reason, but most people are either Bronco or Seahawk fans). I've always been a Broncos fan, so that's obviously where I stand. I'm not a diehard NFL guy like most of you guys, but they've always sort of been my team. So I hope they win, not just because I'm a fan of them, but also because I've REALLY grown to hate the Seahawks fans over the last couple of years. I'd say that a good 60% of their fans are some of the biggest jackasses I've ever met or seen. They talk down on people who aren't Seahawks fans, and they really think they are an elite NFL franchise even though they haven't even won a Super Bowl yet. And I also saw this story this morning where they apparently threw popcorn at that injured 49ers player as he was being carted into the locker room. From what I've seen, a large number of them are just classless, disrespectful idiots. So yeah, I'm really hoping the Broncos can somehow take this one. I know Peyton isn't the best playoff performer ever, but I think he's done a nice job this year, so I hope they can get it done somehow. Oh yeah, and I hope Sherman gets embarrassed. 1898. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.20.2014 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) "I watch the sport for RACING" As do the rest of us but its media who make a big deal about The Chase. Lets face it, points are overrated. Just give me a dude or dudette in victory lane holding the big trophy with the big check and call me a happy fan. The last points battle i cared was 2011 (for obvious reasons). If the "trial balloon" comes into effect, it'll just give me more of a reason too care MORE about the person in victory lane. As much as i give NASCAR fans flak for alot of things, never listen too what the media has too say. Come too your own conclusions without the agenda pushing burkes behond the cyber pens and cyber ink. Of course all of us on here could be concidered reporters, so it doesn't include us and the hand full of reporters who call a spade a spade. Peyton Mannings NEEDS too win the Super Bowl, if he doesn't his carrer is a failure. 1899. joey2448 posted: 01.20.2014 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) This Saturday we will see RACING!!!!! Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona starts on SATURDAY!!!! 1900. joey2448 posted: 01.20.2014 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So early in the week, I'm leaning towards Denver to win the Super Bowl. This is a really tough pick, but I just think Denver is a more complete team. My pick might change as the next 13 days play out, but for now I'm going towards the Broncos. The Seattle defense is amazing, no doubt about that. Whatever your opinion may be on Sherman, he and the rest of the legion of boom are pretty dynamic in the defensive backfield. But I legitimately think Peyton and his core of receivers are going to outfox the Seahawks defense. Manning will try to avoid throwing towards Sherman and Kam Chancellor (a task in itself) as much as he can, and with guys like Eric Decker, Wes Welker, Demaryius and Julius Thomas, the Seattle secondary will have a tough job on their hands to cover those receivers. Plus, I think Denver's O-line is better than Seattle's. I mean, I don't think Manning was even touched on Sunday against New England in the AFC championship. How many times did we see Russell Wilson scrambling to avoid pressure in the NFC championship? He lost the ball on the very first play of the game! I mean, I know that's the kind of QB he is, he is dynamic and he can come up with some amazing plays outside the pocket, but I think he'll facing a lot of pressure in the Super Bowl. Also, the Seattle offense in general seems to be a low-producing offense. I know just because a QB doesn't put up a lot of passing yards doesn't mean his team can't score, but Wilson is the 26th-ranked QB in the league with 202 passing yds/game. Manning is obviously the top QB with an average 340 pass yds/game. One of big advantages Seattle has going for them is their turnover ratio. Seattle has a takeaway difference of +20, while Denver is split even. Turnovers are, as always, a big difference-maker. 1901. startandparkfan posted: 01.20.2014 - 7:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jayski said that the 93 will remain with the team part time. Has Mark Martin officially anounced his retirement, because if not, he could drive for BK. Also, just a random thought that Juan Pablo Montoya may become a road course wringer in one of the primary series if his schedule in IndyCar allows him to. 1902. murb posted: 01.20.2014 - 7:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, just a random thought that Juan Pablo Montoya may become a road course wringer in one of the primary series if his schedule in IndyCar allows him to." I think when they announced his deal with Penske they said they were planning on running him in a few Nascar races. If I had to guess, he'll probably drive the 22 NNS car at the road course races, like how Allmendinger did last year. 1903. Eric posted: 01.20.2014 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) joey2448, You forgot to mention one important element for the Super Bowl and it is the weather. This is the first Super Bowl to be outdoors in a cold weather climate that is known to Snow on that day. Peyton Manning at this time in his career has a weaker arm than he did even 6 years ago. While Peyton never had the stronger arm, his arm is weaker than it was before his neck surgery. Peyton's dad Archie even said that in a column for Sports Illustrated. That means in bad weather conditions, Peyton is not at his best despite his smarts. This Could be one the Super Bowls that could go down to the running game depending on the weather. 1904. SpeedWorld97 posted: 01.20.2014 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This Saturday we will see RACING!!!!! Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona starts on SATURDAY!!!!" I too am so excited to get some racing in for 2014! For some strange reason, I keep thinking that the DeltaWing will win the Rolex 24. I'd actually really want to see that. 1905. DB1995 posted: 01.20.2014 - 10:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) So 8! full time rookies next year?? that's crazy. 1906. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.21.2014 - 2:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hamlin is probably too afraid to speak out against NASCAR's "latest & greatest invention" after the penalty he got for speaking out against the Gen 6 last year." I hope not. I'm not a fan of his, but I hope to see him continue to speak his mind on things in NASCAR. We need drivers who will do that. 1907. We need more Onion posted: 01.21.2014 - 7:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 8 Rookies WOW. It looks like a proper battle is about to begin in a month and the ROTY award will shine in its pre-2008 glory. I'm seriously excited. To think about that 2 and 3 years ago Kevin Conway and Andy Lally (Whom I really like and regularly cheer for in GT races), 2 drivers with absolutely zero stock car talent have won ROTY titles, it is strange that we now have 8 proper contenders. Hoping for a Swan Racing upset here. Also first time in 11 years that my favorite number (#23) is used on a full-time cup car. 1908. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.21.2014 - 8:03 am Rate this comment: (2) (1) Jimmie Johnson got Driver of the Year? Really? WTF? Did anyone else see the murder that went down at the hands of Sebastian Vettel, Sebastian Ogier, and John Force? They're reading the tea leaves through a NASCAR-colored glass. 1909. The Long Shot posted: 01.21.2014 - 10:13 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good news: Steve Byrnes will return to NASCAR RaceHub next week after a 4 month-long absence. Byrnes, who tweeted yesterday "scans look good!", expects to be back to working on a full-time basis at Daytona. Also in the news: Brian Ickler will drive the #7 truck full-time for Red Horse Racing next year, replacing John Wes Townley. 1910. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.21.2014 - 10:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Peyton Mannings NEEDS too win the Super Bowl, if he doesn't his carrer is a failure." I agree. Well, maybe "failure" is a tad too strong, but his playoff record is a black eye on his career that can't be ignored. To have that far of a drop from his brilliant regular season career to his playoff record is inescapable. And he isn't like John Elway who carried teams much further in the playoffs than they should have gone for the first 4/5 of his career. He has had so many one and dones, often at home, so many 12+ win seasons that ended in failure. Truthfully, that '96 loss in Mile High against the second year Jaguars is his only "he really shouldn't have lost that game" loss of his carrer. Peyton has 8 ('99 vs Titans, '00 at Miami (Indy was favored), '05 vs Pittsburgh, '07 vs San Diego against their backup QB and RB, '08 at San Diego (Indy was heavily favored), '09 Super Bowl, '10 vs Jets, '12 vs Broncos). He really really really needs another ring. 1911. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.21.2014 - 10:28 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) NRF, I agree 100%. This may sound like more JJ Haterade from me, but the way Sebastian Vettel demolished the F1 field, that is my DOTY. And John Force winning title number SIXTEEN in his mid 60s has to be #2 at the minimum with a good case he is the DOTY. 1912. Scott B posted: 01.21.2014 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Post 1877: Nope, it's already happening." It's already happening for me, too. I don't watch the Shootout or All Star events becuase they're too gimmicky. I skipped watching a lot of Sprint Cup races last season, and probably watched more Nationwide than I ever had since they had a close points battle all season without the need to manipulate the system. So, I haven't stopped watching NASCAR, but I am selective about what I watch, and the more gimmicky they make it the easier it is for me to stay away. 1913. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.21.2014 - 12:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DSFF Stephen A. Smith said that if he wins his 2nd ring, his "barely" above 500. playoff record wouldn't mean anything, as would his 7 (i think) one and dones in the 1st round. Eh, no. Both would still stand, if Peyton beats Seattle, he'll be ONE win above 500. in his playoff carrer. That would be SAD with someone having 2 rings. "Also in the news: Brian Ickler will drive the #7 truck full-time for Red Horse Racing next year, replacing John Wes Townley." Wow, that is suprising. JWT was getting better, i think he had 4 straight top 10 finishes last year. "It's already happening for me, too. I don't watch the Shootout or All Star events becuase they're too gimmicky." Funny thing is, NASCAR is letting fans decide the format for the Shootout again this year. I'm suprised NASCAR doesn't let fan decide the format for the All-Star race. "I'm not a fan of his, but I hope to see him continue to speak his mind on things in NASCAR. We need drivers who will do that." Well there is difference between speaking about NASCAR itself and NASCAR the product. You can bash NASCAR itself, Ryan Newman threw NASCAR under the bus after the 1st Talladega and NASCAR didn't do anything. While what Hamlin said was an honest opinion i DO NOT feel bad for him. Since people felt so bad for him, people should have created a collection for Hamlin so he could pay the damn fine. Which was payied the next race anyway out of his winnings. 1914. David posted: 01.21.2014 - 12:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Besides announcing that Justin Allgaier will drive the #51 (second-most unnecessary announcement of the silly season, after the Austin Dillon to the #3), Phoenix Racing will field the the #52 for Bobby Labonte in several races this year. Also, Love's Travel Stops is expanding their sponsorship of David Gilliland to 14 races this year. 1915. Scott B posted: 01.21.2014 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1901: "Jayski said that the 93 will remain with the team part time. Has Mark Martin officially anounced his retirement, because if not, he could drive for BK." Martin hasn't completely closed the door on driving, but he is still working behind the scenes with Stewart-Haas. I think the only way we'd see him driving again would be as a sub for an injured or suspended driver. Driving for a Toyota team might be a problem, if his contract doesn't prohibit it outright, SHR certainly wouldn't encourage it. 1916. jabber1990 posted: 01.21.2014 - 12:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Has Mark Martin officially anounced his retirement, because if not, he could drive for BK." yes he has announced his retirement, twice I'm happy to see a Rookie battle, but 2 questions who's actually got a legit chance of competing? or have we already decided that its Larson Vs. Dillion? With 8 rookies this year who is going to be a rookie in 2015? Trevor Bayne? 1917. jabber1990 posted: 01.21.2014 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, Love's Travel Stops is expanding their sponsorship of David Gilliland to 14 races this year." alright, Loves vs Pilot/Flying J vs. Shell/Pennzoil I love intra-field competitors racing against their competitors! (bet it makes plate-racing interesting) but seriously, Sonoco is the official fuel supplier of NASCAR why does Sonoco allow Loves, Pilot/Flying J, Shell (I think Iowa 80 has shown up on a Nationwide car in Iowa) since you don't see a Verizon or AT&T car, or a Firestone or Michelin car? I shouldn't complain but I'm wondering 1918. Spen posted: 01.21.2014 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oddly enough, changing the system to something with this 'guaranteed excitement' will make things even more boringly predictable than they have been. At least with the chase, you had to at least maintain a reasonably good performance over the first 26 races. Now, you just have to win a race somewhere, and then you can effectively go on vacation for the rest of the regular season. Heck, you could even start-and-park the rest of the year. I highly doubt we will see anyone win more than three races during the regular season, as there is virtually no incentive to win, or even run well more than once a year. The only thing most drivers will do after winning once is try to ensure that their teammates all make the chase, up to and including Bowyer-esque shenanigans. Here's my predictions for how the chase will turn out: The first three races will be pretty dull, as everyone will be solely trying to avoid a DNF. The chasers eliminated will be Danica (who will win at Talladega), Stenhouse, Biffle, and Logano (who will have an engine failure at Chicago). The next three will be marginally more interesting, but half the chasers will still be running conservatively, especially at Talladega. Kahne and Hamlin will get caught in the big one, Gordon will wreck at Charlotte, and Bowyer just plain gets outrun. Finally, around race 33, things start to get a little interesting. Edwards has a tire blowout at Martinsville, effectively ending his bid, Kurt bumps his brother at Texas and Kyle retaliates, taking both of them out in Kyle's Texas Meltdown part IV. Junior has a lousy run at Phoenix and winds up fifth. Then it all comes down to Homestead. Harvick and Keselowski have 8th-15th place runs and aren't really factors, and Jimmie wins the race, collecting his seventh championship in the process. Matt, who'd be seventh under the full season system, finishes second at Homestead and gets runner-up as a result. NASCAR is thrilled that the season ends with a one-two finish, and they congratulate themselves on a huge success. Not everyone is happy though. Childress is ticked that Austin missed the chase, and combined with Stewart missing out, and Junior not having a shot at Homestead, NASCAR decides that for the following season, the Chase should have 20 cars, with five drivers having a shot at the title. Eventually, someone reminds them that '92 had six drivers mathematically in the hunt at the end, so they decide to increase the Chase to 24 drivers. 1919. Daniel posted: 01.21.2014 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1916, I'm not sure, but I think Allgaier's team is using Hendrick cars and engines. So I wouldn't count Allgaier out if that's the case. I don't see Annett, Bowman, Truex, Kligerman, or Whitt having a chance though. 1920. David posted: 01.21.2014 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) From the world of F1: Caterham has signed Kamui Kobayashi and Marcus Ericsson, thus completing the driver lineup for the 2014 F1 season. 1921. Dave#38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 01.21.2014 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "but seriously, Sunoco is the official fuel supplier of NASCAR why does Sonoco allow Loves, Pilot/Flying J, Shell (I think Iowa 80 has shown up on a Nationwide car in Iowa) since you don't see a Verizon or AT&T car, or a Firestone or Michelin car? I shouldn't complain but I'm wondering" Shell is allowed because it's "technically" under the Pennzoil name, although Shell logos do appear on the car. In Shell's first race back as a primary sponsor in 2007 with Harvick, Sunoco was not happy to see a Shell car win the Daytona 500, so starting the next week "Shell / Pennzoil" became the official sponsor of the car. As for why Love's Travel Stops and Pilot Flying J are allowed, it's because they are gas stations and sellers of fuel, not producers, and at any rate all the cars are required to use the official Sunoco race fuel anyway, i.e. Stewart has Mobil-1 on his car but uses the same Sunoco fuel as everyone else inside his car. 1922. Sean posted: 01.21.2014 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This Saturday we will see RACING!!!!! Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona starts on SATURDAY!!!!" Pumped about the Rolex, and I actually want to watch all the United SportsCar Championship races this year... I really like the tracks they selected (except Indy and Detroit) and their drivers are so much more engaging than basically anyone in NASCAR these days (if NASCAR had somebody as likable AND dominant as Jordan Taylor at the moment, maybe I'd be more able to get myself up for NASCAR races). I'll probably watch the Daytona 500 as background noise. Sports cars and IndyCar are where it's at, even though they have their own share of gimmicks (really USCC, would you stop giving EVERY CAR RUNNING A LAP BACK ON EVERY CAUTION in the 24 Hours of Daytona?) "Jimmie Johnson got Driver of the Year? Really? WTF? Did anyone else see the murder that went down at the hands of Sebastian Vettel, Sebastian Ogier, and John Force? They're reading the tea leaves through a NASCAR-colored glass." Only drivers who compete in domestic US championships are eligible for Driver of the Year, so that rules out Formula One drivers like Vettel or World Rally Championship drivers like Ogier or World Endurance Championship drivers like Tom Kristensen (who definitely should be a household name with his NINE 24 Hours of Le Mans wins but isn't because the US gives way too little attention to drive4sr outside NASCAR), etc... In other words, Jimmie Johnson is basically competing against Scott Dixon, John Force, Max Angelelli/Jordan Taylor (if they were even nominated for the award), Klaus Graf/Lucas Luhr (ditto). Given that, it's a bit more understandable why they almost always go for the NASCAR champion every single year, but the award definitely USED TO BE more balanced than it is now. 1967 - Mario Andretti 1968 - Mark Donohue 1969 - LeeRoy Yarbrough 1970 - Al Unser 1971 - Richard Petty 1972 - Bobby Allison 1973 - David Pearson 1974 - Bobby Unser 1975 - A.J. Foyt 1976 - David Pearson 1977 - Cale Yarborough 1978 - Mario Andretti 1979 - Darrell Waltrip 1980 - Johnny Rutherford 1981 - Darrell Waltrip 1982 - Darrell Waltrip 1983 - Bobby Rahal 1984 - Mario Andretti 1985 - Bill Elliott 1986 - Bobby Rahal 1987 - Dale Earnhardt 1988 - Bill Elliott 1989 - Emerson Fittipaldi 1990 - Al Unser, Jr. 1991 - Michael Andretti 1992 - Bobby Rahal 1993 - Nigel Mansell 1994 - Dale Earnhardt 1995 - Jeff Gordon Through that point, almost all the choices were logical and sensible, save maybe a few (Darrell Waltrip in 1979 seems weird - should have gone to Rick Mears, Bobby Rahal in 1983 seems ESPECIALLY weird since he was 5th in CART points with one win), and even though Earnhardt and Unser both won the 1990 and 1994 NASCAR/CART titles, I think I'd have flipped them, giving Earnhardt 1990 and Unser 1994. As you can see, NASCAR and IndyCar drivers pretty much alternated to that point (even if there were periods when one series was rewarded more than the other), and pretty much every mega-legend got one, but the awards were VERY competitive considering Earnhardt only managed to get 2 of them. However, the CART/IRL split pretty much made "American racing" synonymous with NASCAR to the point where it is going to take a MAJOR level of overachievement in another series combined with a very weak Cup battle for anyone else to win the award. Only 5 times since then has the Cup champion NOT won the award: John Force - 1996. This one I totally agree with. Jeff Gordon was providing all the excitement in NASCAR at that moment but lost to his weaker but more consistent teammate Terry Labonte. Alex Zanardi was providing all the excitement in CART but lost to his weaker but more consistent teammate Jimmy Vasser. As a result, I wouldn't have given it to any of the NASCAR or CART drivers for that year. Cristiano da Matta - 2002. Nobody deserved the Cup title as is generally known, and da Matta had a 7-win Zanardiesque season. Almost a no-brainer, especially because CART still had all the top drivers except Gil de Ferran and Helio Castroneves who moved to the IRL that season. However, it is a bit of a shame that he got one and Zanardi and Montoya, who were probably more dominant, did not (especially when Montoya who won 7/20 races in CART in 1999 lost to Jarrett who won 4/34...) Ryan Newman - 2003. Really? Really? REALLY? Should have gone to Paul Tracy or a drag racer. Tracy won 7 races as da Matta did, but admittedly da Matta left CART to go to Formula One, Christian Fittipaldi left to go to NASCAR, and Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan, Michael Andretti, Scott Dixon, Kenny Brack, and Bryan Herta all went to the IRL that year, so you can certainly question Tracy's level of competition. Greg Anderson - 2004. I do remember that he was extremely dominant in Pro Stock at this time. Not sure Kurt Busch deserved it, and Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson ended up winning MORE than enough when Cup champions started winning this as default. Tony Schumacher - 2008. Basically ditto. Sebastian Vettel was CLEARLY the best driver in the world last year, but the problem is that this award only reflects American series and IndyCar racing nuked itself to the point where none of the drivers get the respect they deserve (I'd have taken Montoya over Jarrett in '99, 2000 I'd have probably taken a drag racer, 2003 I'd have gone for Tracy over Newman, 2006 I'd have gone for Bourdais over Johnson, 2008 I'd have probably gone for Dixon over either Johnson or Schumacher...) Now that IndyCar is united, the main problems in this regard are that it has SO MUCH MORE PARITY than NASCAR does at the moment (so the racing is more exciting but nobody can distinguish themselves to that degree), it is so much less popular (so the drivers aren't household names), and that the driver who wins the most races in the season tends to choke too often (hi, Will Power...) 1923. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.21.2014 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ^So why the hell wasn't it given to John Force? Hell, Max Angelelli was a better "driver" then any NASCAR wheelman was this year. 1924. Sean posted: 01.21.2014 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Because the American motorsports media cares about NASCAR and only NASCAR and Mark Donohue seems to be the only driver who won primarily for sports car accomplishments. I agree it would be cooler to see a choice from sports cars. After all, Max Angelelli and Jordan Taylor won 5 out of 12 races compared to Johnson's 6/36, but admittedly the Daytona Prototype class was much smaller than the average Cup field. I have to disagree with you on Angelelli though. While he is a sports car racing legend, Taylor was actually faster last year. It's easy to criticize the Taylor brothers for riding their legendary father's coattails, but much harder when you realize that they ARE among the fastest drivers out there in their own right. Closer to Michael Andretti and Al Unser, Jr. in terms of dominance than Marco Andretti or Graham Rahal... Taylor had 3 poles to Angelelli's 0, 2 fastest laps to Angelelli's 0, 248 laps led to Angelelli's 117, and Taylor was the finishing driver in the last three races, all of which he won. Hard to argue Angelelli was better than Taylor last season, let alone Jimmie Johnson. And Taylor excites me especially because he has the BEST PERSONALITY IN RACING, yes, even more than James Hinchcliffe... John Force is probably the one choice we can all agree on. 1925. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.21.2014 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Angelelli's getting up there in years, so that doesn't surprise me much. Still doesn't excuse Johnson getting that award, so I guess we've kind of beaten that to death. Love the new RR feature! Thanks Alan! 1926. David posted: 01.21.2014 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A sponsor search feature!! Can this site get any better?! 1927. Daniel posted: 01.21.2014 - 7:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Updates on the ARCA entry list: #8 Cole Powell (Empire Racing) #40 Alx Danielsson (Carter 2 Motorsports) #46 Maryeve Dufault (Team Stange Racing) #48 Sean Corr (James Hylton Racing) #82 for Empire Racing has been removed from the entry list. There are now currently 36 entered. 1928. jabber1990 posted: 01.21.2014 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "#46 Maryeve Dufault (Team Stange Racing)" I thought it first said "Team Strange" I'm sad because I had a few jokes I could have made 1929. joey2448 posted: 01.21.2014 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm happy to see a Rookie battle, but 2 questions who's actually got a legit chance of competing? or have we already decided that its Larson Vs. Dillion? With 8 rookies this year who is going to be a rookie in 2015? Trevor Bayne?" I've pretty much given up on Trevor Bayne. I mean, the kid won the Daytona 500 THREE YEARS AGO and he still isn't a full-time Cup driver. He still is running the Nationwide series with a few Cup events sprinkled throughout, but his career just doesn't seem to be going anywhere at the moment. I admit, part of that is probably due to Jack Roush... 1930. Scott. B posted: 01.22.2014 - 1:24 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) DIllon and Larson are the probable 1-2 finishers in the ROTY final tally, but you will see the others have strong races along the way. I just don't think the other 6 have the team resources around them to challenge week in, week out. 1931. Spen posted: 01.22.2014 - 2:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think BK and Swan will do better than they would have done in a normal season, since most contending drivers will likely run 20-somethingth on a regular basis, resulting in lousy teams getting consistently good runs, even some top tens. Annett will still suck, though. 1932. The Long Shot posted: 01.22.2014 - 11:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think Kligerman and Whitt will do pretty well with Swan Racing (Kligerman finished 18th with that team in his Cup debut at Texas last year), and Allgaier will probably have some decent runs with that Harry Scott team, but Bowman, Truex, and Annett will likely be backmarkers for most of the season. In silly season news: Will Kimmel will run 5 Nationwide races in the #44 for Tri-Star Motorsports next year (Phoenix, Bristol, and 3 unannounced events). I've always thought Kimmel deserves a full-time ride in Nationwide or Truck, considering he'll never get a decent one in ARCA. He has a lot of talent, and it's unfortunately being wasted start-and-parking. 1933. We need more Onion posted: 01.22.2014 - 1:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor search? Maaan! Stat junkies, like me, will absolutely love it. 1934. Scott B posted: 01.22.2014 - 1:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It's interesting that two teams, Swan and BK, decided to go with two rookies rather than pairing a newbie with a veteran. I agree that Annett will probably be 8th of the 8 in the 2014 class. BK racing, harder to predict. They've been bad in the past, I don't know if their signing Alex Bowman and Ryan Truex means they've gotten serious about building for the future, or if they only did that because rookies and willing to take a smaller contract. 1935. murb posted: 01.22.2014 - 2:29 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I actually think Alex Bowman can have some nice runs with BK Racing, but I don't think Truex will do very good. He just hasn't really impressed me that much in NNS, and in his few Cup races last year he looked totally lost out there. As for the other rookies, it's clearly gonna be Dillon and Larson battling for the ROTY title. If I had to guess the rest of the spots, I think Allgaier will finish 3rd, followed by Kligerman, Bowman, Whitt, Truex, and Annett, in that order. 1936. David posted: 01.22.2014 - 3:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Either way, BK Racing will have one whopper of a year. Sorry, had to do it. In other news: - NASCAR scheduled a press conference for 4:00 p.m. eastern to discuss qualifying changes. - Wurth will sponsor Brad Keselowski in four races this year. - Kevin Manion has been hired as Michael Annett's crew chief. - Marty Snider and Kelli Stavast will work as pit reporters for NASCAR on NBC. 1937. The Sound posted: 01.22.2014 - 4:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Are we allowed to discuss the Athlon predictions without giving spoilers to anyone here? Also, I will update the status of the sim tonight. I know I promised an update a week or so ago, but time has gotten in the way. My apologies. In a related note to that, I have set up a website in conjunction with the sim. Can I post the link to the site without seeming like I am attempting to shamelessly self-promote? It is just a blog I set up, to clarify. 1938. Canadianfan posted: 01.22.2014 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) New Qualifying Rules from Jayski At tracks measuring 1.25 miles in length or larger, qualifying for the Coors Light Pole Award will consist of three rounds: � The first qualifying elimination round will be 25 minutes in duration and includes all cars/trucks. The 24 cars/trucks that post the fastest single lap from the first qualifying round will advance to the second round. � The remaining cars/trucks will be sorted based on their times posted in the first round of qualifying in descending order. � The second qualifying elimination round will be 10 minutes in duration and the 12 cars/trucks that post the fastest single lap time will advance to the third and final round. The fastest remaining cars/trucks earn positions 13th through 24th based on their times posted in qualifying in descending order. � The third and final qualifying round will be five minutes in duration and the fastest single lap time will determine positions 1st through 12th in descending order. � There will be a five-minute break between each qualifying round. At tracks measuring less than 1.25 miles, qualifying for the Coors Light Pole Award will consist of two rounds: � The first qualifying elimination round will be 30 minutes in duration and includes all cars/trucks. The 12 cars/trucks that post the fastest single lap time from the first qualifying round will advance to the second and final round. � The remaining cars/trucks will be sorted based on their times posted in the first round of qualifying in descending order. � There will be a 10-minute break between the two qualifying rounds. � The second and final qualifying round will be 10 minutes in duration and the fastest single lap time posted will determine positions 1st through 12th in descending order. 1939. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.22.2014 - 4:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay maybe i'm too dumb to understand but can someone tell me if these qualifying changes actually mean there will be "heat races" where there are multiple cars on the track at the same time racing each other or will it still just be one car on the track at a time? I read the changes on Jayski but I didn't fully understand that part of it. 1940. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.22.2014 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR scheduled a press conference for 4:00 p.m. eastern to discuss qualifying changes." They're going with an F1 type of qualifying format for all 3 series, save for the Daytona 500, the Eldora Truck race and non-point events. For short track and 1 mile tracks: 30 minutes - top 12 advance to final round. 10 minute final round determines 1st-12th For tracks 1.25 miles and longer: 25 minutes - top 24 advance to round 2 10 minutes - top 12 advance to final round 5 minutes final round determines 1st-12th This isn't bad, I would've preferred several short heat races to the timed qualifying periods. I'm curious as to how restrictor plate qualifying will work out; if say Hendrick will have all 4 cars out simultaneously to draft or if even the whole field comes out at once to get their fastest lap in. 1941. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.22.2014 - 4:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #1938 copy and pasted, I type too slow, haha 1942. The Long Shot posted: 01.22.2014 - 4:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My rookie rankings: 1. Larson: I still say he'll manage a top 15 points finish with that EGR team. Look what he did with the Harry Scott organization in his limited races there. This kid will produce regardless of equipment. 2. Dillon: Equipment superiority. That's about all I have to say about him and his situation. However, remember that even with the controversies about his taking over the #3 and "continuing Earnhardt's legacies" and all that, Dillon is still a pretty damn good driver. There's still a lot of potential here. 3. Kligerman: I think Parker will produce pretty well, especially considering the equipment he's in. I also think that at least one of the rookies is going to win at 'Dega this year, and if I had to pick a favorite, it would be him. 4. Allgaier: Phoenix Racing's equipment sucks, and Allgaier has never blown me away even with top-notch Turner Motorsports equipment. Look for a Casey Mears-esque season. 5. Bowman: He'll outproduce Ryan Truex, but I just can't see him advancing further than about 25th in points, around where Front Row Motorsports generally finishes. 6. Whitt: Whitt, due to being a lesser name than his teammate, will likely get R&D-type equipment. Look for a number of engine failures this year, and potentially even a couple of start-and-parks if they can't find funding. 7. Truex: His ceiling is probably 28th-30th in points. 8. Annett: It's close between he and Truex for last, but I think Truex has the better chance at garnering a top 10 finish, which could be the deciding factor. In addition, several drivers who I think will run at least one Cup race this season: --Ty Dillon in the RCR #33 --Chase Elliott in a fifth Hendrick Motorsports car --Dylan Kwasniewski in a second Turner Motorsports entry --James Buescher, also in the second Turner Motorsports entry (I think the sides left on good terms, so it's not entirely out of the question) 1943. murb posted: 01.22.2014 - 5:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Can I post the link to the site without seeming like I am attempting to shamelessly self-promote?" Since it's something racing related that a lot of us have been involved with getting up and running, I'm sure it would be fine. 1944. murb posted: 01.22.2014 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like the new qualifying rules. F1 has always done well with the multiple round system, so I'm happy to see Nascar move in that direction. 1945. DB1995 posted: 01.22.2014 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Look what he did with the Harry Scott organization in his limited races there I think it needs to be known that he probably ran a Ganassi car in his starts last year, I only say this because EGR's twitter page updated where, Kyle Jamie, and Juan ran in the races they all 3 ran, I have absolutely ZERO concrete evidence he did run a Ganassi car, but I strongly believe he did. Also I have a question, in nationwide is Turner Scott Motorsports equipment elite or just good? I have heard people say on Facebook "Kyle Larson is excelling in that junk Turner equipment" while that same person turns around and says "Man, Justin Allgaiier better pick it up or he will get canned, he is in elite equipment so there is no excuse". Is this just a case of someone hyping Larson and putting Allgaiier down? 1946. Scott B posted: 01.22.2014 - 5:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last time there were 8 rookies in Cup, 1994: Jeff and Ward Burton, Joe Nemecheck, John Andretti, Jeremy Mayfield, Mike Wallace, Steve Grissom, and Loy Allen, Jr. Wow, those careers went in different directions, didn't they? 1947. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.22.2014 - 6:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) All for the qualifying changes, and glad that they kept qualification the same for Daytona and Eldora...still don't like the idea of upper-tier NASCAR races on dirt, but it's here to stay. So hey, even if the point system is a pile of crap (if they change it), AND they f*cked up Nationwide plate racing, I'm all for the changes in quals. Be cool on tracks with very short pit road entrances and exits. And I wonder if for 'Dega and the Daytona July race, the whole feild will go out to do 5 collective laps and then only 4 or 5 guys will be left? Or will we just see a bunch of small 7-8 car packs/freight trains? I'm really going to like this! 1948. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.22.2014 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The new Quing rules make sense on plate tracks, road courses and short tracks. I'll watch Quing at those places but on ovals? I'll still pass. 1949. jabber1990 posted: 01.22.2014 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have a question, in nationwide is Turner Scott Motorsports equipment elite or just good?" its hard to tell because in 2013 14 races were won by Gibbs, 14 were won by Penske, 2 by JRM (who has a relationship with who?) 2 by Childress 32 of the 33 races were won by Superior equipment, and the 33rd was Bayne in great Roush equipment Larson had 9 top-5 finishes but is that Kyle Larson or TSM? 1950. Eric posted: 01.22.2014 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Long Shot, I wouldn't be so sure about Whitt likely to get R&D-type equipment and a chance of starting and parking if no funding is found. What you have to look at is Swann Racing does have a bit more funding this year compared to last year. Swann Racing added an investor named Anthony Marlowe to their race time and that means there is more money put into the race team. 1951. Jarrett88fan posted: 01.22.2014 - 9:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Why do I have a desperation feeling about the 2014 NASCAR season? Perhaps a few Bad Brad shoot interviews and more gorilla press slams by the soon to hall of fame inductee, the Ultimate Warrior will get me pumped because the glam Danica SB commercial will not. Hopefully this is a rebound year like 1997 was for the WWF. 1952. Waynerd posted: 01.22.2014 - 11:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This is why I love the truck series! You never see driver's getting these chances in the nationwide series in really good equipment. Taylor Malsam kicked butt with TriStar but get's let go for Hal Martin$$$$. And now look it, Malsam is going to race in the Trucks for Turner full time. And Brian Ickler. It always blew me away that Ickler never got a chance to drive full time in the trucks look at these stats in the Trucks. 22 Races 0 Wins 6 Top 5s 10 Top 10s 1 Pole 12.6 AVG Finish Now he is finally getting a chance. You never see this stuff happen in the nationwide series. For every single person on this site who complains about nascar, just stop. The Truck series has beyond insanely awesome racing every single week. If you love racing, you watch the truck series. 1953. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.23.2014 - 12:04 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like I'll be tuning in a lot to qualifying this year just to see how the new format works out. 1954. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.23.2014 - 12:11 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've pretty much given up on Trevor Bayne. I mean, the kid won the Daytona 500 THREE YEARS AGO and he still isn't a full-time Cup driver. He still is running the Nationwide series with a few Cup events sprinkled throughout, but his career just doesn't seem to be going anywhere at the moment. I admit, part of that is probably due to Jack Roush..." Back in 2011, I thought Trevor would contend for championships in his future (I was mainly hoping to see it as well). Now it doesn't even look like he'll make it into Cup. Roush gave Stenhouse a Cup ride over him (which is understandable given that he got more out of the #6 than Trevor did last year), despite both drivers coming up at about the same time and Trevor not starting out the wrecking ball that Stenhouse was in the first half of his Nationwide rookie year. 1955. jabber1990 posted: 01.23.2014 - 1:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) " Roush gave Stenhouse a Cup ride over him" as I (and many others) on this site has said in Roush's and Stenhouse's Defense Ricky was the better candidate, he does have 2 Nationwide Titles and 8 Nationwide wins but in Trevor's Defense the 2011 Title was when he was gone for medical reasons (and was in RFR's #2 Car) and in 2012 Trevor started 6 races due to lack of funding (and was in RFR's #3 car) 1956. Daniel posted: 01.23.2014 - 2:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Updates on the ARCA entry list: #7 Scott Hubler (Bobby Gerhart Racing) #52 Clay Campbell (Ken Schrader Racing) #97 Tim Viens (Carter 2 Motorsports #? Brent Cross (Team Lacross Motorsports) That puts 39 currently entered for the race. 1957. Dave#38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 01.23.2014 - 2:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Last time there were 8 rookies in Cup, 1994" No, it was 2006, when Denny Hamlin, J.J. Yeley, Brent Sherman, Chad Chaffin, Martin Truex Jr., Reed Sorenson, David Stremme, and Clint Bowyer all ran for the award, although not all of them lasted the full with their respective teams. 1958. murb posted: 01.23.2014 - 3:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't get a chance to read the article, but I saw a headline somewhere that said Michael Schumacher seems to be making small improvements. That's good to hear. 1959. Sean posted: 01.23.2014 - 3:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Okay. I wanted to make sure I did this before the 24 Hours of Daytona starts, and enough has been announced everywhere (even in international sports car racing) where I think I can, although I admit towards the end (including NHRA) I know almost nothing. Sprint Cup Champion - Jimmie Johnson. I know you're all groaning at me, and I'm groaning too, but the fact remains the #48 team has been better prepared for the chase than any other team pretty much every single season. A lot of people think that this new ridiculous chase elimination format will hurt Johnson because he's struggled at Homestead, but he's only (relatively) struggled at Homestead because either he held the points lead entering the race and played it safe or he was not in contention for the title and therefore wasn't in serious contention on any of the cookie-cutters. Just as the chase did, I think this format will INCREASE, not decrease, Johnson's likelihood of winning a title, because the #48 is the only team that seems to know how to focus on only the tracks they need to focus on in the chase. Chase order of finish - assuming 16 chasers: 1. Jimmie Johnson, 2. Matt Kenseth, 3. Kyle Busch, 4. Brad Keselowski, 5. Carl Edwards, 6. Denny Hamlin, 7. Kasey Kahne, 8. Kevin Harvick, 9. Dale Earnhardt, Jr., 10. Kurt Busch, 11. Jeff Gordon, 12. Joey Logano, 13. Clint Bowyer, 14. Ryan Newman, 15. Austin Dillon, 16. Marcos Ambrose Predicting a restrictor plate win for Dillon and a road course win for Ambrose, but even though I do think there will be more attempts at fuel mileage gambles, etc..., I don't see an Almirola-esque driver stealing a race this way because the better-funded teams will also make gambles. In other words, if Almirola attempts to go off-sequence to steal a win, a few regular contenders will do so as well which may actually *decrease* the pool of winners. I do not believe there will be 16 winners in the first 26 races, because that almost never happens. And yes, I intentionally left Greg Biffle and Tony Stewart off... I believe Biffle is going to slip into late-career decline this year (and that even Stenhouse will probably be faster) and Tony Stewart, who wasn't all that hot before his injury, is going to have a Sterling Marlin 2003-esque season. Chase order of finish - assuming 12 chasers and current system: 1. Jimmie Johnson, 2. Matt Kenseth, 3. Carl Edwards, 4. Denny Hamlin, 5. Kyle Busch, 6. Kevin Harvick, 7. Brad Keselowski, 8. Kurt Busch, 9. Kasey Kahne, 10. Jeff Gordon, 11. Dale Earnhardt, Jr., 12. Joey Logano Daytona 500 winner - Kurt Busch. He has been a surprisingly consistent plate racer for teams like Roush and Penske that generally struggled, and was even fast in the Furniture Row car. Now he is driving for the team that gave Danica Patrick the pole and a top five run last year, and the addition of Kevin Harvick should only strengthen the team on plate tracks. I believe Kurt will benefit. Coca-Cola 600 winner - Kasey Kahne. Why is this race considered special again? Southern 500 winner - Jeff Gordon. I'm going to be even bolder and predict that this will be his last win, although that's not gonna endear myself to people here. Brickyard 400 winner - Brad Keselowski wins via yet another brilliant Paul Wolfe strategy call. Road course winners - Marcos Ambrose finally gets the Sonoma win that eluded him in 2010; Kyle Busch wins at Watkins Glen. First-time winner - Austin Dillon. Kyle Larson and Ricky Stenhouse will be competitive in more races than Dillon but will just miss out on their first career wins. Rookie of the Year - Kyle Larson. It's EXTREMELY hard to get excited about Dillon after he became the first winless champion, but he clearly knows how to be consistent while Larson doesn't, and I do think Dillon will win first AND beat Larson in points. Having said that, I think RCR is going to take a hit with Kevin Harvick leaving and using a points system where only the best 17 races count, I think Larson's best 17 races will be better than Dillon's, even though I think Dillon will be better over the entire schedule. Nationwide champion - Chase Elliott. This just feels inevitable and reminiscent of when Dale Earnhardt, Jr. was in Busch in 1998-99. The son of a legend driving the best-funded car, blah blah blah. At least Junior had to compete with Matt Kenseth. Who does Elliott have to compete with? A bunch of Cup rejects like Trevor Bayne, Elliott Sadler, and Regan Smith, another overhyped grandson in Ty Dillon (who unlike Austin DIDN'T manage to win the truck title), and some ride-buyers like Brian Scott? The most interesting prospects like Dylan Kwasniewski aren't in good enough cars. At least I DO think Elliott won't go winless. Camping World Truck champion - Ryan Blaney. Crafton's title seemed like a fluke, I don't think Jeb Burton and Darrell Wallace, Jr. are consistent enough, and Timothy Peters doesn't seem to have the equipment. Johnny Sauter has been a good, solid driver for a long time but doesn't strike me as a champion, even though I do think he is overall better than Crafton. After this series was generally regarded as a retirement tour for most of its history, it seems to be favoring youth and actual prospects lately, which makes me more inclined to pick somebody likely going places like Blaney or Burton than a lifer like Crafton or Sauter. 1960. Sean posted: 01.23.2014 - 3:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IndyCar Champion - Will Power. The rap against him has always been that he could not race on an oval to save his life. While he has been the fastest driver by himself on any type of track (except for short ovals) for the past several years, he struggled in side-by-side battles when not starting/restarting on the front row (even on road courses), but I think he finally *got it* with his win in the season finale at Fontana last year, where he was making all sorts of clean 3-wide passes, let the race come to him, showed unusual patience, etc..., etc... Although I don't expect him to win a short oval anytime soon, he showed more speed on them than he ever has before along with being very fast and finally showing the ability to battle on the high-speed ovals. He can't have the comical amount of bad luck he had last year either. It is time, as long as he can combine his usual season dominance with not choking in the finale (like last year)... But then I picked him the last four years too... Top 10 points finishers - 1. Will Power, 2. Scott Dixon, 3. Ryan Hunter-Reay, 4. Simon Pagenaud, 5. Sebastien Bourdais, 6. Juan Pablo Montoya, 7. James Hinchcliffe, 8. Helio Castroneves, 9. Tony Kanaan, 10. Justin Wilson Indy 500 - Juan Pablo Montoya. While I actually think he'll be fairly lackluster on the road courses this time around (I simply don't think he has the raw speed of the drivers I put in the top five anymore), I do think he's going to be one of the leading oval threats. It seems like most IndyCar drivers as they get older gradually do better on ovals and worse on road courses, and Montoya's contemporaries like Dario Franchitti, Tony Kanaan, and Helio Castroneves have all proven this... Yes, Montoya was better than all of them when he raced in CART, but I'd still be pleasantly surprised after his mediocrity in Cup if he comes back and instantly kicks butt again. At Indy however, all signs point to him. He won his only race there. He's driving A.J. Allmendinger's car which might have been the fastest in the race last year. He was a much better oval driver in both open wheel and Cup than Allmendinger was. Andretti and Ganassi switched manufacturers in the off-season which may adversely affect their chances since the 500 is the first oval race of the season, while Penske is sticking with Chevy. Penske has rarely gone this long without winning. Even in the split years, the race has hugely favored drivers with CART 500-mile experience, and the nonstop slingshot passes will benefit Montoya, who just like Franchitti and Kanaan has tons of experience in the CART Handford Device races which current Indy 500 racing now resembles, and Montoya's successful duel with Michael Andretti in the 2000 Michigan 500 plus his experience plate racing should allow him to get up to speed almost instantly. Since it IS a crapshoot, there are still 10 or 15 different potential winners, but Montoya feels like the overwhelming favorite to me nonetheless. Grand Prix of Indianapolis - Sebastien Bourdais. He is the only driver who has won on the infield road course (albeit before it was reconfigured), and if he was able to turn Dragon Racing, the worst team in the series, into regular road course contenders, he's gonna be a FORCE on the road courses for the superior KV. Long Beach Grand Prix - Will Power. Because he's the man to beat here basically every single year. Pocono 500 - Marco Andretti. It seems like Honda has gotten better fuel mileage than Chevy on the ovals the past two years (especially Indy in 2012 and Pocono in 2013, both of which Marco dominated). Now if you combine the speed he's shown with better fuel mileage, he might finally win something bigger than Sonoma and Iowa for once. Fontana 500 - Tony Kanaan. After Dan Wheldon's death and Sam Hornish's switch to NASCAR, Kanaan is clearly THE high-speed oval guy, and his record at Michigan and Fontana in both CART and IRL races was stellar, even though he hasn't won a race at Fontana yet (he did let off the gas to let Dario Franchitti win the 2005 season finale, so you could put a bit of an asterisk here...) Rookie of the Year - Luca Filippi. After he was in the 4-wide Indy Lights finish, started and finished 2nd at Indy, and crashed while running 3rd at Fontana, ALL the buzz is about Carlos Munoz, especially after signing with Andretti. Not so fast. Munoz is a RAW rookie while Filippi has a BOATLOAD of experience in European formula racing (which had deeper fields than Indy Lights did for sure). Munoz is in the better car, is more exciting to watch, and is definitely more likely to win races (although I don't think he will win one). His best races will be better than Filippi, and he'll be much better on ovals, but I also expect Munoz to crash a lot while Filippi will be very consistent and better on the road and street courses that dominate the schedule, which will be enough to tip the balance late in the season for Filippi. But I think it will be VERY close. I'd love to see Sage Karam battling with them as well, but it looks like he's given up on a full-season IndyCar ride for 2014 and is seeing what happens with his current sports car deal with Ganassi. Holding off on getting a ride immediately with some team like KV to try and land a ride with Ganassi for 2015 (replacing Charlie Kimball) may in fact be his best bet. Formula One champion - Sebastian Vettel. I know they are radically changing the engine package to turbocharged engines which has the potential of shaking things up, but in general, the teams that are best able to respond to changes are the most well-funded teams with the best engineers... Adrian Newey has rarely been late on responding to an engineering change, and I see no reason why Vettel could win the last nine races of the season while Newey continued to develop a dominant car for next season as well. Daniel Ricciardo replacing Mark Webber will give him less intrateam competition, and considering Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton's feud in 2007 arguably cost them both the title, I don't see Alonso and Kimi Raikkonen meshing well as teammates. Top ten points finishers - 1. Sebastian Vettel, 2. Fernando Alonso, 3. Kimi Raikkonen, 4. Lewis Hamilton, 5. Nico Rosberg, 6. Daniel Ricciardo, 7. Kevin Magnussen, 8. Jenson Button, 9. Romain Grosjean, 10. Nico Hulkenberg Monaco Grand Prix winner - Lewis Hamilton GP2 champion - Stoffel Vandoorne Formula Renault 3.5 champion - Oliver Rowland United SportsCar Championship Prototype champions - Jordan Taylor/Ricky Taylor. The Chevy Corvette Daytona Prototype has seemed to have the fastest package during the offseason, but it seems that some of the other Chevy DP teams have been faster. I don't think that will last since this is the most well-funded team, and Jordan Taylor much to my surprise was faster than Max Angelelli last year, and when Ricky was Max's teammate they were still perennial championship contenders. 24 Hours of Daytona - Ryan Dalziel/Scott Sharp/David Brabham. However, I have a suspicion that the Le Mans prototypes will be better able to finish an endurance race because the DPs have been artificially accelerated which probably makes them more unstable. I also think this team has the most overall talent on it with all three of these drivers having won past 24-hour races (none of them together), as much as Scott Sharp does annoy me from his IRL days. World Endurance Champions - Andre Lotterer/Marcel Fassler/Benoit Treluyer 24 Hours of Le Mans - Tom Kristensen/Loic Duval/Lucas di Grassi Those two are pretty much a matter of "pick the Audi", although I do find the Timo Bernhard/Brendon Hartley/Mark Webber Porsche WEC team intriguing. V8 Supercar champion - Jamie Whincup. Basically a gimme at this point. DTM champion - Mike Rockenfeller WTCC champion - Sebastien Loeb BTCC champion - Gordon Shedden WEC champion - Sebastien Ogier NHRA Top Fuel champion - Shawn Langdon NHRA Funny Car champion - Matt Hagan NHRA Pro Stock champion - Mike Edwards NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle champion - Eddie Krawiec 1961. Sean posted: 01.23.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and I'm predicting no first-time winners for IndyCar this season (I do think Bourdais will win, but I don't think he counts considering his Champ Car wins). For F1, I do predict Daniel Ricciardo will win a race, but I don't think Kevin Magnussen has the car to do so. 1962. Sean posted: 01.23.2014 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh, and I meant to pick Indy Lights too but I forgot: Indy Lights champion - Matthew Brabham. The grandson of 3-time Formula One champion Jack Brabham and the son of sports car legend/IROC winner/inaugural Brickyard starter Geoff Brabham, he has the correct racing pedigree, but won 13/15 races in Star Mazda and this pathetic series with only 9 cars in it or whatever should be a cakewalk for him. Because of his name, he, unlike Sage Karam, will probably make it to IndyCar... But I suppose Karam was only where he was because he was Michael Andretti's protege, so... 1963. startandparkfan posted: 01.23.2014 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Copied from a Motorsports forum I'm on. NASCAR Sprint Cup Series First-time winners: Aric Almirola, Austin Dillon, Ricky Stenhouse Jr. Most wins in a season: Kevin Harvick Upset of the year: A surprise winner at Talladega Disappointments: Kyle Larson Best race of 2014: Talladega, Watkins Glen, Martinsville Worst race of 2014: 1.5 milers Retirees at season end: Bobby Labonte, Terry Labonte, Jeff Burton (due to his NBC deal) Driver of the year: Denny Hamlin Reject of the year: none Most likely to lose ride in the middle of the season: none Champion: Kevin Harvick Runner-up: Denny Hamlin NASCAR Nationwide Series: First-time winners: Brian Scott, Ryan Reed, Ty Dillon, Joey Coulter, Brendan Gaughan Most wins in a season (excluding cup drivers): Ty Dillon Upset of the year: Johanna Long might win a race. Disappointments: Cup Regulars win a lot. Best race of 2014: The Road Courses, Daytona Worst race of 2014: 1.5 milers Retirees at season end: Jeff Green Driver of the year: Trevor Bayne Reject of the year: Nelson Piquet Jr. Most likely to lose ride in the middle of the season: none Champion: Trevor Bayne Runner-up: Ty Dillon NASCAR Camping World Truck Series: First-time winners: German Quiroga, Miguel Paludo, Ross Chastain if he finds a ride. Most wins in a season: Matt Crafton Upset of the year: John Wes Townley does well. Joey Coulter does well with new team. Disappointments: Tyler Reddick Best race of 2014: Canada, Eldora, Daytona Worst race of 2014: none, most truck races are good. Retirees at season end: Crafton to Nationwide Driver of the year: Ryan Blaney Reject of the year: none Most likely to lose ride in the middle of the season: none Champion: Ryan Blaney Runner-up: Darrell Wallace Jr. Indycar: First-time winners: Carlos Munoz, Simona Di Silvestro Most wins in a season: Scott Dixon, Will Power Upset of the year: Graham Rahal finally wins again! Disappointments: Lack of Baltimore Best race of 2014: Indy Worst race of 2014: Birmingham Retirees at season end: none Driver of the year: Will Power Reject of the year: Mikhail Aleshin Most likely to lose ride in the middle of the season: Mikhail Aleshin Champion: Will Power Runner-up: Scott Dixon 1964. Jim Davis posted: 01.23.2014 - 6:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR Nationwide Series: Upset of the year: Johanna Long might win a race." She couldn't win a race we she had a ride. It's a lot tougher without one. I wish it were otherwise but her window of opportunity in NASCAR may be closing quickly. 1965. jabber1990 posted: 01.23.2014 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Disappointments: Kyle Larson" damn, that's disappointing ""NASCAR Nationwide Series: Upset of the year: Johanna Long might win a race." She couldn't win a race we she had a ride. It's a lot tougher without one. I wish it were otherwise but her window of opportunity in NASCAR may be closing quickly." I wonder why Kyle never built her a truck 1966. Dave#38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 01.23.2014 - 7:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR Nationwide Series: First-time winners: Brian Scott, Ryan Reed, Ty Dillon, Joey Coulter, Brendan Gaughan Reject of the year: Nelson Piquet Jr." Joey Coulter is not running Nationwide so there's no way for him to win a Nationwide race, as for Piquet rumors have him returning to the truck series with the #9 team, replacing Hornaday. 1967. Spen posted: 01.24.2014 - 8:26 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) David: Responding to something you said in post #1363: "It [Darlington] is a track that pretty much every driver on each of our lists has raced on." Almost all. Of the 102 drivers who are on one of the six lists, only four of them haven't raced at Darlington. They are: Dan Gurney: Pretty obvious, as only one time in his career did he run anywhere outside of Riverside and Daytona. That was at Atlanta. Mario Andretti: Again, mostly ran Riverside and Daytona, with a race apiece at Atlanta and Charlotte thrown in. Ray Elder: Mostly raced at Riverside and Ontario, with Daytona and Texas World thrown in for flavor. Glen Wood: This one surprised me. I knew he preferred the short tracks, but to the extent of skipping Darlington? He did race there in convertibles, at least. 1968. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.24.2014 - 9:28 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""NASCAR Nationwide Series: Upset of the year: Johanna Long might win a race." She couldn't win a race we she had a ride. It's a lot tougher without one." That's pretty extreme there. I understand the "tougher without [a ride]" part, but the "She couldn't win a race when she had a ride" is a bit overboard considering God himself wouldn't be able to win a race in Johanna's car. 1969. The Long Shot posted: 01.24.2014 - 11:37 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Upset of the year: Johanna Long might win a race." Unless she gets a ride with Turner (unlikely), there is almost zero chance this will happen. "John Wes Townley does well." If he had stayed with Red Horse, I would agree with this, but his move to Wauters Motorsports torpedoes any chance of him being consistently competitive. "Joey Coulter is not running Nationwide so there's no way for him to win a Nationwide race" Ryan Blaney didn't run Nationwide last year, and yet he won a race. Remember that Coulter was very competitive at Talladega last year in a one-off for Joe Gibbs, so there's reason to think that he could win a race if given an opportunity. 1970. We need more Onion posted: 01.24.2014 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really hope that Sean is very far off in many of his predictions, like Chase Elliott winning a Nationwide title and Ryan Blaney winning CWTS. Chase is way too inexperienced on larger tracks to be really competitive, I think. Ryan is very overrated imo, but I would say he stands a better chance at being champion than Chase, still I'd say it is going to be Sauter's year. And I actually laughed at the WTCC prediction, NO WAY that Loeb beats Muller or Tarquini or even Lopez. I think naming Rowland WSbR champion is also far off. But I appreciate how much effort you put in those predictions and I think that you should be spot on for Cup, IndyCar and Endurance racing. Also, I have to remark on how awful predictions are in post #1963, Aleshin losing his ride? Rahal winning? Reed and Johanna winning? Lel 1971. Sean posted: 01.24.2014 - 6:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I fully admit my knowledge of European racing needs work and I admit I only did a couple minutes of research in each of those. Loeb has proven to be diverse given his many World Rally Championship titles and I remembered that he also finished 2nd at Le Mans and was a dominant force at FIA GT. What I forgot was that he didn't win the FIA GT title (as I thought he had). For Formula Renault 3.5 my main knowledge was "Don't pick Carlos Sainz!" and that was about it since most of the Formula 1 prospects I'm more familiar with are elsewhere (Kevin Magnussen, now in F1, Antonio Felix da Costa, now in DTM, etc...) Yes, obviously I bit off more than I could chew with regard to European ladder series but I wanted to acknowledge them because it seemed goofy to pick winners of the NASCAR ladder series and then not do so for Formula One and IndyCar. Do you realize how few Americans have probably HEARD of series like WTCC and World Series by Renault? At least I have a leg up there I guess... You may also have a point with regard to my Nationwide and truck picks for the same reason. I basically refuse to watch Nationwide except for the road course races given the Buschwhacking and the fact that the leading drivers are Cup rejects, so I may not be very well informed there. Trucks I try, but I can't afford a cable package with FS1 and I can rarely find a feed online... I will say that one of my closer personal friends who watches all three NASCAR series (especially Nationwide/trucks) much more closely agrees with my picks of Elliott and Blaney. I admit my passion at the moment is more for IndyCar and the merged sports car series, so as long as I don't mess those picks up, I'm happy. Despite being in Europe, you're probably watching way more NASCAR than I am (which would probably be seen as just as weird as somebody following WTCC in the US...) 1972. David posted: 01.24.2014 - 10:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) *commercial break* For those who are sports-car buffs, the Rolex 24 picks are still open until the green flag tomorrow. We now return you to your regularly scheduled commentary. "Ryan is very overrated imo" Really? Why do you think that? "Chase is way too inexperienced on larger tracks to be really competitive, I think." I hope he doesn't contend because he's already on the fast track to Cup. I want Smith or Sadler to take it this year, but I'm not holding my breath. 1973. We need more Onion posted: 01.25.2014 - 8:40 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) @Sean: Yes, I know how unknown and un-popular WTCC (and touring car racing in general) is in the US and I think it is a darn shame. Hopefully Robb Holland will be able to get some American racing fans watch BTCC, where the 2013 season was on par with IndyCar in terms of excitement and great battles on the track. Too bad that their market is VERY limited. Regarding Loeb, I know he is great (I think I have called him one of the finest drivers of his generation on his r-r page), but he doesn't have the experience of Muller and Tarquini, who both have more than 20 years in touring cars and have always been competitive. Also I don't think Loeb will be aggressive enough, as Muller and Tarq are both hyper-aggressive. And there are also Huff, Michelisz (can't leave him out, haha) and Lopez who can contend for the championship. I hope I didn't appear disrespectful with my NASCAR opinions, I am just hoping that you are not going to be right, because I don't like those 2 drivers :) If you don't have a stream for the CWTS race(s), feel free to ask me here for one, being an European fan of IndyCar and NASCAR, I have to have quite a collection of streaming sites. @David: I have nothing against Blaney, just don't see the future champ in him. I'd say Sauter has more experience and a better truck, hence he is my pick. 1974. The Long Shot posted: 01.25.2014 - 9:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I admittedly know very little about open wheel feeder series, so I'm not going to embarrass myself and attempt to make predictions for them. I will say that after a good hour or so of researching this morning, one name that I can't seem to shake out of my head is Max Verstappen. Almost no one is talking about this kid (who apparently is only a few months older than I am), but everyone that does is calling him one of the best F1 prospects they've ever seen. He seems poised to destroy FR2.0 next year, especially after testing so well with the new F3 machine last month. I'm curious if anyone here has any solid opinions on this kid, and if so, do you agree that he has the chance to be the next big thing? That all being said, I will imitate Sean and make some predictions for NASCAR, IndyCar, F1, and some of the feeder series as well (I know next to nothing about sports car and NHRA, so again, I will not make a fool out of myself and attempt to predict those series). NASCAR Sprint Cup Championship - Brad Keselowski: People are being scared off of Brad because he had a middling 2013 campaign, but you have to remember that although the start to his season was rather poor (laden with mechanical failures as well as a points penalty), he finished rather strongly. With all distractions put aside, I think Keselowski is a prime candidate for a rebound season. Rookie of the Year - Kyle Larson: As I said in post #1942, I think Larson will produce regardless of equipment. I think he will win a race this year and be competitive in several others, while Austin Dillon will have a season similar to Ricky Stenhouse's 2013; several good runs, but never a serious contender for a victory. Nationwide Championship - Regan Smith: Changed my views on this a bit, as I had previously predicted that Ty Dillon would win. With Dillon and Elliott both being rookies, I just don't see them performing consistently enough to warrant the series title. Regan had a solid chance at the championship last year before faltering over the last half of the season, and with Austin Dillon, Justin Allgaier, Kyle Larson and Parker Kligerman moving up to Cup and Sam Hornish leaving Penske, it's hard not to consider Smith this year's favorite. (And by the way, Sean, calling Trevor Bayne a Cup retread is a misnomer. Bayne has never gotten a fair shot at a decent Cup ride, unlike Smith and Elliott Sadler. In addition, Brian Scott may be a ride-buyer, but he showed more potential with RCR last year than he ever did with CJM Racing or Gibbs. He could easily finish inside the top 5 in points this year.) Truck Championship - Jeb Burton: I think this year will feature one of the best title battles in NASCAR history, between 3 high-end second-year drivers in Burton, Ryan Blaney, and Bubba Wallace. The reason why I put Burton as my championship pick is because he seems the most polished of the 3, as evidenced by his numerous pole positions and high average finish last year. Blaney and Wallace arguably have more potential, but they are still raw as drivers and are more crash-prone. East Series - Cameron Hayley West Series - Michael Self Canadian Tire Series - D.J. Kennington Modified - Ted Christopher Southern Modified - George Brunnhoelzl III ARCA - Tom Hessert Open Wheel IndyCar - Will Power: There are only 3 drivers who will be legit championship contenders this year: Power, Scott Dixon, and Ryan Hunter-Reay. I think this could come down to a battle of luck, and for once, I think it will favor Power this year. Still, you could just as easily make arguments for the other two. (ROTY: Carlos Munoz) F1 - Sebastian Vettel: Is there anyone else to choose from? While I don't forsee him being as dominant as he was last year, there just isn't anyone else who can challenge him on a consistent-enough basis. (ROTY: Kevin Magnussen) Indy Lights - Matthew Brabham 1975. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.25.2014 - 10:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Hopefully Robb Holland will be able to get some American racing fans watch BTCC, where the 2013 season was on par with IndyCar in terms of excitement and great battles on the track. Too bad that their market is VERY limited." BTCC does have great racing because the "sprint" format they use. Plus they have more then 1 race at the same track the race weekend, which i think it alittle dull for my taste but it is how they have been doing it for years. 1976. jabber1990 posted: 01.25.2014 - 2:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) they only have 4 cameras at this track? they just missed a hard crash in turn 1, they just showed it spinning and then they showed the car getting towed 1977. startandparkfan posted: 01.25.2014 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That must really stink for the car that just crashed, in a race that is 24 hours, it made only 24 minutes! 1978. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.25.2014 - 2:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And to make it worse, it only took that long in the racing season to find a concrete wall without a SAFER barrier. 1979. SpeedWorld97 posted: 01.25.2014 - 3:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Those GT Dodge Vipers and Chevy Corvettes are some sleek race cars! 1980. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.25.2014 - 3:39 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Comment #1980 for 1980 Winston Cup champion, second year driver (still hasn't been done since) Dale Earnhardt. 1981. 18fan posted: 01.25.2014 - 3:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Ganassi team looks inept on pit stops today. 1982. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.25.2014 - 5:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh my God. The 99 Gainsco car just got demolished. 1983. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.25.2014 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A GT Ferrari was slow in the infield and the 99 car about drove through it, but at least structurally the 99 was much worse for wear. 1984. 18fan posted: 01.25.2014 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That was a scary accident. Hopefully Memo Gidley is ok. 1985. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.25.2014 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have never had such a sinking feeling before... 1986. joey2448 posted: 01.25.2014 - 5:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Looks like Memo suffered a combination of two things -- sun was in his eyes, and he was behind another car. But still, that was a huge impact! Fingers crossed that both drivers are okay. Sounds like Malucelli is good, not sure about Gidley. 1987. murb posted: 01.25.2014 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I really wish this would stop happening. 1988. joey2448 posted: 01.25.2014 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Marshall Pruett just reported that Bob Stallings said Memo Gidley is conscious. That's good to hear. 1989. The Long Shot posted: 01.25.2014 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thank god he seems to be okay. Even still, this is not a good omen for the remainder of the season. 1990. David posted: 01.25.2014 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That accident reminded me vaguely of the 1957 crash at Darlington that killed Bobby Myers. Hopefully this will turn out much better. 1991. murb posted: 01.25.2014 - 6:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) That's nice to hear about Gidley. But I just really hope we don't have a bunch of injuries (and worse) again this year. We need a fun, positive year after 2013's misery. 1992. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.25.2014 - 7:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I hate to be the one who mentions that Allan Simonsen waas talking... 1993. SpeedWorld97 posted: 01.25.2014 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A couple of thoughts so far: - The TUDOR Sports Car Series is definitely winning me over so far. It's great to see so many different cars in one united series again. I just wish that the series would come to tracks like Mid-Ohio (my home track) instead of the Kansas "Roval" or Belle Isle. - The #70 and #07 Mazda Prototypes (the only non-Grand-Am prototypes with a closed cockpit) are perhaps the slowest cars on the track. Looking at their appearance, you would think the exact opposite. Even the GTDs are flying past them at full speed! - Disappointed that the DeltaWing ran into problems. As much as I hate the look of the car, it's definitely one of the coolest race cars ever built. - Does anyone else get flashbacks to 2001 when they see a yellow Corvette #3 racing in the Rolex 24? - Glad to hear that both drivers, especially Memo Gidley, are for the most part alright after that scary crash. I didn't see it live (I don't get FS2) but I saw it on YouTube. I'm not going to let it get me worried though about what the rest of the racing season will be like. Last year's Rolex 24 didn't have any major accidents, yet the rest of the year was pretty awful. 1994. DB1995 posted: 01.25.2014 - 7:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone know for sure how many Prototypes are on the lead lap?, IMSA.com will say like 10 then you refresh and there is only 3? Really just worried about if the 01 is on the lead lap 1995. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.25.2014 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Glad to hear that both Matteo Malucelli and Memo Gidley are concious and alert. 1996. jabber1990 posted: 01.25.2014 - 10:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) according to everything I've read the race was red-flagged for 90 minutes, so is the broadcast going to stretch 90 minutes or is the 90 minutes going to be subtracted from the 24 hours? 1997. SpeedWorld97 posted: 01.25.2014 - 10:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "according to everything I've read the race was red-flagged for 90 minutes, so is the broadcast going to stretch 90 minutes or is the 90 minutes going to be subtracted from the 24 hours?" The race clock doesn't stop, so the race will finish at its scheduled time tomorrow. Technically that 90 minutes counted towards the 24 hours. 1998. Jeff Gordon fan posted: 01.26.2014 - 12:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) This post is the year Jeff Gordon had his best season ever. 1999. 18fan posted: 01.26.2014 - 1:44 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) According to the GAINSCO Racing twitter account, Memo Gidley underwent surgery on his left arm and left leg. He is under observation and further evaluation at Halifax. 2000. DB1995 posted: 01.26.2014 - 1:50 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well the 01 car broke something, it seems every year Mcmurray gets the Ganassi car that is unreliable and always does well and breaks in the middle of the night. Usually the 01 is the best car, but the 02 is this year for some reason. 2001. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.26.2014 - 5:58 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My GTD winner was the first car out of the race.... natch. 2002. joey2448 posted: 01.26.2014 - 7:22 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) I know I'm stating the obvious here, but man these 24-hour races always have such a different feel. As a race fan, it feels so strange to be going to bed while a race is happening, and have it still ongoing when I wake up. Btw, in non-racing news, congratulations to Stan Wawrinka on beating Rafael Nadal and taking his first ever tennis major! Only 20 days until the stock car portion of Speedweeks kicks off!!! 2003. The Long Shot posted: 01.26.2014 - 11:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Memo Gidley has been diagnosed with a spinal fracture and additional injuries to his arms and legs, all of which will require surgery. While I'm thankful that he survived the incident, again, this was about the worst possible way to start out the new racing season. 2004. We need more Onion posted: 01.26.2014 - 1:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Btw, in non-racing news, congratulations to Stan Wawrinka on beating Rafael Nadal and taking his first ever tennis major!" Judging by the way he played in the finals, it is also going to be his last. Was Nadal fully healthy, he would have blown Wawrinka away, it was really obvious that Waw was making mistakes he couldn't have got away with against a healthy opponent. But it was nice to see an underdog winner. 2005. Mr X posted: 01.26.2014 - 2:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cool to see the overall victory just 15 seconds apart at this stage of the race although this caution is going to make things interesting. 2006. 18fan posted: 01.26.2014 - 2:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And there's controversy at the finish in the GT Daytona class. The Action Express #5 car was consistently the best car, especially in the hands of Bourdais and Barbosa. 2007. jabber1990 posted: 01.26.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm still confused on what the different types of classed there are so if you are in the GT class you cannot win? you race for 24 hours but you cannot win and get no trophy if you finish first in class? 2008. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.26.2014 - 2:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Not quite... the overall win is overhyped, but in the racing community the #911 Porsche's win is just as big and gets a trophy and all that jazz just like the #5 Action Express. 2009. 83andJoe posted: 01.26.2014 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) >so if you are in the GT class you cannot win? you race for 24 hours but you cannot win and get no trophy if you finish first in class? The overall win (ALMOST) always goes to a Prototype car. But in addition to the overall win, each class has its own "race within the race" and its own subchampionship. Classes are: P (Prototype), a combination of the old Daytona Prototype and P2 classes GTLM (GT Le Mans), the former ALMS GT class PC (Prototype Challenge), also former ALMS GTD (GT Daytona), old Grand-Am GT + ALMS GTC, and also open to European GT3 cars 2010. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.26.2014 - 5:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What 83andJoe said about the classes. Overall gets more attention then the smaller classes (cuz overall means everything ladies and gents). I mostly pay attention too too the GT classes. 2011. The Long Shot posted: 01.26.2014 - 10:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) These Pro Bowl uniforms are the worst I've ever seen, and that includes those god-awful throwback uniforms that the Steelers have. 2012. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.27.2014 - 11:09 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I found something interesting today; people are calling for NFL games too NOT be playied in cold and snowy weather. How long has football (handegg) been playied outside? Now they want it too be a version of hockey? Hockey became an "indoor" sport because well hockey got too big for being outside 100% of the time, now goes outside about 3 times a year, which is fine. But football can't? I see, i see. IMHO, football (handegg) went from rough tough, too wussies in the span of about 10 years. Football (handegg) MUST be playied outside in the rain, snow, wing, cold, fog, ice. These guys are supposed too be "athletes" (Donovon McNabb), they should be able handle whatever Mother Nature throws at them. Atleast when it rains and/or snows, NASCAR has an excuse, NFL doesn't have/need an excuse too NOT play outside. 2013. Daniel posted: 01.27.2014 - 12:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Arrowhead has just dropped their sponsorship of Jeb Burton. I really hope he can find some funding quick. 2014. jabber1990 posted: 01.27.2014 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I found something interesting today; people are calling for NFL games too NOT be playied in cold and snowy weather. How long has football (handegg) been playied outside? Now they want it too be a version of hockey? Hockey became an "indoor" sport because well hockey got too big for being outside 100% of the time, now goes outside about 3 times a year, which is fine. But football can't? I see, i see. IMHO, football (handegg) went from rough tough, too wussies in the span of about 10 years. Football (handegg) MUST be playied outside in the rain, snow, wing, cold, fog, ice. These guys are supposed too be "athletes" (Donovon McNabb), they should be able handle whatever Mother Nature throws at them. Atleast when it rains and/or snows, NASCAR has an excuse, NFL doesn't have/need an excuse too NOT play outside." how many of these people are the same people who are against kids playing outside and opposed to pretty much anything outside? I'm not trying to call those people stupid but its just an observation this is related, I know that a lot of y'all are in MN so you will probably have a different view on this. explain why "Its cold" is a good reason to close schools? I mean you don't see schools in Scandinavia, Iceland, Russia, or Canada closing because its cold, also those same 4 countries are beating the US in test scores I know growing up that if it was cold I'd put a coat on and when I got to school I'd take the coat off If the superbowl wasn't being played in Jersey then this discussion wouldn't be happening. don't miss Superbowl 48 Sunday on Fox! (Check Local Listings) 2015. jabber1990 posted: 01.27.2014 - 12:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) the Superbowl should be played in Hawaii! 2016. The Long Shot posted: 01.27.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "this is related, I know that a lot of y'all are in MN so you will probably have a different view on this. explain why "Its cold" is a good reason to close schools? I mean you don't see schools in Scandinavia, Iceland, Russia, or Canada closing because its cold, also those same 4 countries are beating the US in test scores" The reason the schools are closed is so that kids don't have to wait outside for school buses or their parents in the bitter cold. And believe me, it is bitter. In case you hadn't heard, 2 weeks ago, when the polar vortex was at its worst, Minnesota was the coldest place on the entire planet, with night-time temperatures pushing -50 degrees (wind-chills hit -80 degrees in some places). That's colder than the average temperature is on Mars during this time of year. Frostbite can set in after a mere 5 minutes of exposure. When temperatures even come close to being this cold, there's no good reason for schools to be open. 2017. murb posted: 01.27.2014 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great to see Steve Byrnes back on Race Hub. 2018. murb posted: 01.27.2014 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kurt Busch says it's about a 70% chance that he will do the Indy 500/Coke 600 double this year. 2019. Eric posted: 01.27.2014 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Longshot, You may talk about how schools it is no good reason for schools to be open when it is below zero. The thing is back when I was growing up, School was open despite having below zero temperatures back in the 1980's and 1990's in Wisconsin. Yes, there was school when it was below 10 degrees outside despite having busing. The fact is schools in Wisconsin now close in those temperatures. Students in my day had to wear stuff like long Johns aka long Underwear, very warm jackets, scarfs, gloves, and etc. to make sure we stayed warm. The other thing is my dad worked outside for a whole month once below zero and he bundled up and he didn't get frostbite either. What is really happening is parents isn't having their kids wearing the proper clothing to keep wear in the part of Wisconsin I live in anymore like they did in my day. 2020. Eric posted: 01.27.2014 - 6:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Longshot, You may not know it, where I live school closes when it even hits 3 below zero unlike when I was in school. The only way the public school I went to had school off for weather was snow despite having a busing system. 2021. Eric posted: 01.27.2014 - 6:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I know people will disagree with posts 2019 and 2020 on what I typed, but that is how things were in my era growing up in the state of Wisconsin in the 1980's and 1990's. I know Wisconsin isn't as cold Minnesota, but the fact is school shouldn't closing at temperatures in Wisconsin that are 3 below zero now compare to back when I growing up in the 1980's and 1990's despite being being in a public school system with busing. 2022. An Aussie Commentator posted: 01.27.2014 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "this is related, I know that a lot of y'all are in MN so you will probably have a different view on this. explain why "Its cold" is a good reason to close schools? I mean you don't see schools in Scandinavia, Iceland, Russia, or Canada closing because its cold, also those same 4 countries are beating the US in test scores" At the other end of the scale, when the fire danger is catastrophic in areas of South Australia where I live schools in that area are closed for the day, but then again it is the driest state in the driest inhabited continent in the world. 2023. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.27.2014 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So Kurt Busch is doing the double... Hope he drives more like Donnie Allison or Paul Goldsmith than Bobby Johns or Scott Speed. 2024. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.27.2014 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If the superbowl wasn't being played in Jersey then this discussion wouldn't be happening. don't miss Superbowl 48 Sunday on Fox! (Check Local Listings)" If it was held in Wisconsin then, yes this conversation would be happening, or in Kansas City or in Ohio or the Northeast (not NJ or NY). Everyone complains about NASCAR being PC and wussy, the NFL is just as bad. Saw the BSPN ticker that a vote of players over 80% said they'd play in the Super Bowl with a concussion, yet 60% said that NFL cares about players safety. Ok who is talking outta both sides of their mouth? And do i need to bring up that show called "Friday Night Tykes"? 2025. The Long Shot posted: 01.27.2014 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Students in my day had to wear stuff like long Johns aka long Underwear, very warm jackets, scarfs, gloves, and etc. to make sure we stayed warm." Every day, I have to go out and let our two dogs out for an hour or so to eat and frolic. I generally wear a shirt, two sweatshirts, a heavy jacket, two layers of pants, two layers of gloves, a hat, and 3 layers of socks. And yet by the end of the hour, I'm freezing all over. Even if someone is significantly bundled up, he won't be able to stand being outside for longer than about 10 minutes. Bully for you if you went to school during frigid conditions like these, but it's just not safe for kids to be exposed to the cold, even for a few minutes. 2026. startandparkfan posted: 01.27.2014 - 8:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just a random question, do any of you know if the UNOH Battle at the beach will be broadcast on TV? It was a really good race last year if you look past all the crashes, which I know were a huge part last year. 2027. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.28.2014 - 7:06 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) Probably going to get lost in the shuffle of all the comments, but I have finished my compilation of EVERY SINGLE BLOWOVER in NASCAR history. I have to give the people here at Racing Reference A Huge shoutout personally! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkn06-9--zU Hopefully, the link comes through. If not, you can search for it, and it will have a caption image of Edward's 2009 crash into the fence from pit lane. 2028. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.28.2014 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) The rainbow car is coming back this year! But not for Jeff. Kyle will drive the Skittles car a time or two with a rainbow theme, like the one Ernie drove. DuPont, Cromax, Axalta, whoever is in charge, you are blowing it. Even with the new name and logos, they could have a sharp rainbow themed scheme, as the sim racing community proved. 2029. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.28.2014 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Even with the new name and logos, they could have a sharp rainbow themed scheme, as the sim racing community proved." This is just my opinion but some people within the SRC can make better paint schemes then what teams can produce now a days. I say team owners/sponsers should let fans create/design paint schemes for cars. I can see some kick ass schemes out there designed from fans. Also Coach K. wins his 900th game Duke, sorry had too throw that in there. :-P 2030. hamlinfan11 posted: 01.28.2014 - 5:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a question,should NASCAR drop the manufacturars championship? i think it should. tell me what you think! 2031. murb posted: 01.28.2014 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Kyle will drive the Skittles car a time or two with a rainbow theme, like the one Ernie drove." I'm not exactly a Shrub fan by any means, but I was hyped when I saw that. Ernie drove the Skittles car when I first started watching, so that will bring back a lot of memories for me. Now that I think about it, Ernie really drove some kickass cars in his day. The Kodak car will always be one of my all time favorites, the 28 car is obviously legendary, and those Skittles and M&M's schemes were always my favorites as a little kid. 2032. An Aussie Commentator posted: 01.28.2014 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well it looks like McDowell won't be starting-and-parking anymore, as K-Love will be sponsoring the Leavine Family team for all 20 events this year. 2033. Scott B posted: 01.28.2014 - 6:43 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "I have a question,should NASCAR drop the manufacturars championship? i think it should. tell me what you think!" No. Why would they do that? There is nothing to gain by eliminating it. 2034. DaleSrFanForever posted: 01.28.2014 - 8:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This is just my opinion but some people within the SRC can make better paint schemes then what teams can produce now a days. I say team owners/sponsers should let fans create/design paint schemes for cars. I can see some kick ass schemes out there designed from fans" You are a good man SmokeFan. "Also Coach K. wins his 900th game Duke, sorry had too throw that in there. :-P" I TAKE THAT BACK!!!! 2035. joey2448 posted: 01.28.2014 - 8:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Are there any pictures yet of Kyle Busch's Skittles scheme? I haven't been able to find anything yet... DSFF is spot on! DuPont/Axalta is blowing it, they really ought to bring back the rainbow colors one last time before Jeff retires. I figure he still has three years left in him, realistically, perhaps more. But at some point, he HAS to bring back the rainbow warriors! I mean, the 24 team had it for the 2004 All-Star race... 2036. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.28.2014 - 8:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have a question,should NASCAR drop the manufacturars championship? i think it should. tell me what you think!" I could careless about the auto. manu. championship. Only time i care about auto. manus. is in GT car races like Contiental Sports Cars, BTCC, Pirelli World Challenge and other "stock car" racing series. I don't watch NASCAR for auto. manus., i watch for drivers and racing. I'm not one of those "only Mercian cars can race in a Merican series." I could careless if Subaru, Honda, Jaguar, Mini (lol), Mercades-Benz, BMW or any other foreign make. Truth hurts DSFF, truth hurts. ;-P 2037. David posted: 01.28.2014 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Probably going to get lost in the shuffle of all the comments, but I have finished my compilation of EVERY SINGLE BLOWOVER in NASCAR history. I have to give the people here at Racing Reference A Huge shoutout personally!" Very good work! Though you didn't actually get all of them, you obviously worked hard to put as many as possible into the video. "This is just my opinion but some people within the SRC can make better paint schemes then what teams can produce now a days. I say team owners/sponsers should let fans create/design paint schemes for cars. I can see some kick ass schemes out there designed from fans." Heck, I've seen some pretty epic paint schemes made with just the NTG:IL paint booth. 2038. David posted: 01.28.2014 - 9:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Probably going to get lost in the shuffle of all the comments, but I have finished my compilation of EVERY SINGLE BLOWOVER in NASCAR history. I have to give the people here at Racing Reference A Huge shoutout personally! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkn06-9--zU Hopefully, the link comes through. If not, you can search for it, and it will have a caption image of Edward's 2009 crash into the fence from pit lane." Very good work! Though you didn't actually get all of them, you obviously worked hard to put as many as possible into the video. "This is just my opinion but some people within the SRC can make better paint schemes then what teams can produce now a days. I say team owners/sponsers should let fans create/design paint schemes for cars. I can see some kick ass schemes out there designed from fans." Heck, I've seen some pretty epic paint schemes made with just the NTG:IL paint booth. 2039. jabber1990 posted: 01.28.2014 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have a question,should NASCAR drop the manufacturars championship? i think it should. tell me what you think!" as a Ford fan, I will say yes because of how inflated it is for Chevy, they automatically win due to having the most number of cars (and insert conspiracy theory here) as somebody who wants to see "fairness" in sports (don't lynch me hard please I got a concussion a month ago) I also think it should be gotten rid of because its inflated for Chevy, but as a car guy I don't know, I mean isn't Manufacture's champion one of the only "original" rules left? I mean the rules from that meeting in December 1948? "Well it looks like McDowell won't be starting-and-parking anymore, as K-Love will be sponsoring the Leavine Family team for all 20 events this year." stupid question, but aren't there 36 events in a year? on a related note whats "K-Love?" 2040. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.28.2014 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @2039, 1) I believe they're only competing in 20 races. 2) K-Love is a Christian radio network. The All-Star Race is changing the order of the races. The Showdown is being moved to Friday before the Truck race and the qualifying for the All-Star Race is being moved to Saturday before the race starts. As of now, its still the 3 lap qualifying with the 4 tire stop in the middle. 2041. DB1995 posted: 01.28.2014 - 10:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If this race is really for the fans, don't sell seats, open the grandstands and you will have a full house of fans buying souvenirs, food and drink and take the big money and give it to some great charities and let the drivers race for a trophy and pride and everybody is happy, that is of course if this race is for the fans..., I just saw this posted on Facebook, I actually agree with this except charge maybe 10 bucks to enter (first come first serve seats, it will make the fans who want good seats show up even earlier and buy even more stuff) and do pay the drivers a little bit and their team. 2042. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.29.2014 - 9:42 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Carl Edwards better get ready to open up his wallet. Read Jeff Gluck's timeline for more info. 2043. jabber1990 posted: 01.29.2014 - 10:53 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) if we do what you are suggesting then how is the racetrack going to make money? yes, Bruton is a multi-Billionaire (or damn close to it) but there are a lot of fees to run a race, Sanctioning fees, purse money, etc. how do you expect people to show up if they aren't making money? yes in theory you could mark-up the concessions and the souvenirs but that will just anger people and there is no way that will do anything 2044. The Long Shot posted: 01.29.2014 - 10:57 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) More silly season news: --JGL Racing, a new team formed by former business partners Gregg Mixon and James Whitner, has merged with Carl Long's new team to run 2 cars full-time in the Nationwide Series this season. Mike Wallace will run the #28 car at Daytona, while Matt Carter will drive the #93. Long will stay with the team as director of competition, so it sounds like he may not drive many, if any, races for the team. --Veteran X-1R Pro Cup Series driver Tyler Young will run the full Truck Series schedule this year for his self-owned Young's Motorsports team. Veteran crew chief Bryan Berry will serve that same position with Young's team. --SS Greenlight Racing will return to Trucks next year, although it looks like they will return to the rotating lineup of drivers that they've had for several years now. Jimmy Weller will pilot the #08 Chevrolet in a minimum of 12 races, with Engine Parts Plus coming on board as sponsor. 2045. Scott B posted: 01.29.2014 - 11:31 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jabber1990: "isn't Manufacture's champion one of the only "original" rules left? I mean the rules from that meeting in December 1948? NASCAR has modified the way they award manufacturer's points a few times along the way, just like driver's points, but yes the concept goes way back to the roots. & about McDowell & Leavine Family Racing: "stupid question, but aren't there 36 events in a year?" They are taking an approach like the Woods Brothers, running a partial schedule and concentrating on the races where they think they can do well. K-Love is only a primary sponser for 3 races, though (Daytona 500, Sonoma, and one more TBA). They will be an associate sponsor for the other 17 races the team runs. McDowell is talking about no more start & parks, but that may just be pre-season optimism. 2046. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.29.2014 - 12:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "if we do what you are suggesting then how is the racetrack going to make money? yes, Bruton is a multi-Billionaire (or damn close to it) but there are a lot of fees to run a race, Sanctioning fees, purse money, etc. how do you expect people to show up if they aren't making money? yes in theory you could mark-up the concessions and the souvenirs but that will just anger people and there is no way that will do anything" Tracks get a share of TV revenue, ticket sales don't amount too a hill of beans anymore. Read somewhere that NASCAR is STILL making money when races are held at Dover and it isn't from ticket sales people. I'm willing it is the same for the Brickyard as well. Tracks make their money and it is from TV contracts. However i do agree that their really isn't a need too sell tickets but they should be able too count/track how many people are at the racetrack on a weekend. I agree however that not selling tickets will effect revenue, more people would so up when wouldn't have too pay for tickets, tracks would just jack up everything else. 2047. DB1995 posted: 01.29.2014 - 1:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Eric McClure to Sprint cup this season for Front Row Motorsports in the Hefty car for the Daytona 500 : I read on Facebook, NO PROOF AS OF NOW. 2048. ch posted: 01.29.2014 - 1:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) McClure will run the Daytona 500 for FRM in the #35 Hefty / Reynolds Wrap Ford. It will be a ONE RACE deal, and the team will run various other drivers in the #35 for the rest of the year. 2049. 18fan posted: 01.29.2014 - 3:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Penske announced that Ryan Blaney will ran two Cup races (Spring Kansas and Fall Talladega) and 15 Nationwide races in addition to his full schedule in the Truck Series with BKR. 2050. Daniel posted: 01.29.2014 - 3:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It also looks McClure is splitting the Nationwide schedule with Jeff Green and will retire at the end of the year. A few more updates to the Arca entry list: -#3 Tom Buzze (Hixson Motorsports) -#20 Scott Sheldon (Tom Berte Racing) -#44 Frank Kimmel (WinTron Racing) -#58 Brent Cross (Cushman Racing) 41 entered 2051. murb posted: 01.29.2014 - 4:21 pm Rate this comment: (1) (2) They're going to formally announce the changes to the Chase tomorrow. 2052. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.29.2014 - 4:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was just able to check for an update, and it looks like Carl will NOT be fined for his comments, which is a good thing. As for the Chase and the announcement tomorrow, well let's just say until Brian France speaks the words tomorrow I am hanging on the to every possible positive fantasy I can before we get inevitably disappointed. 2053. DB1995 posted: 01.29.2014 - 4:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I like Mcclure, it is kind of sad to see him retire, but it is probably for the best, with him not being all that talented and recurring health problems he also needs to be home with his kids (i think he has 5 girls 7 and under)I hope he can score a few top 10s this year and can talk hefty into staying with Tri-Star and sponsor someone else 2054. jabber1990 posted: 01.29.2014 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) this may have been discussed 300-500 comments ago it looks like the Truck Series has a pretty healthy field of drivers and trucks, the Cup series has a pretty healthy field of drivers rides and cars (almost a bad thing) how does the Nationwide series look? it looks like all these 2nd and 3rd tier teams are folding up but only a few 3rd and 4th tier teams are replacing them. Meanwhile all the 1st, 1.5, and 2nd tier drivers are promoted or are rideless 2055. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.29.2014 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Of course Carl would not have gotten fined, Ryan Newman tossed NASCAR under the bus and didn't get anything handed too him last year at Talladega 1. Since i have funny feeling that the "trial balloon" will be put into effect, my thinking is the same line as the drivers. We'll have too wait and see how it will work. After thinking about it, the only things i'll be ok with are full-timers only and elminations. Carl wasn't for it or against it. Junior was for it but then again that could be his fans speaking for him. Richard Petty said it was a "PR stunt" and the cream will still rise too the top. Too which i agree with, the best will still be the best, no matter what (that would be teh #48 crew folks). Although i do agree with Carl on one thing, the closer you get too Richmond the more intense it will get. I do predict some mid-packers taking risks too win races. 2056. Daniel posted: 01.29.2014 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #2054, these are the drivers and teams confirmed so far for Nationwide. -#01 Landon Cassill (JD Motorsports) -#2 Brian Scott (Richard Childress Racing) -#3 Ty Dillon (Richard Childress Racing) -#4 Jeffrey Earnhardt (JD Motorsports) -#6 Trevor Bayne (Roush Fenway Racing) -#7 Regan Smith (Jr Motorsports) -#9 Chase Elliott (Jr Motorsports) -#11 Elliott Sadler (Joe Gibbs Racing) -#14 Eric McClure & Jeff Green (TriStar Motorsports) -#16 Ryan Reed (Roush Fenway Racing) -#20 Drew Herring & Matt Kenseth (Joe Gibbs Racing) -#22 Brad Keselowski (Team Penske) -#32 Kyle Larson (supposedly all the companion races for Turner Scott Motorsports) -#43 Dakota Armstrong (Richard Petty Motorsports) -#? Blake Koch (TriStar Motorsports) -#? Daryl Harr (part-time for JD Motorsports) -#? Ryan Blaney (15 races for Team Penske) -#? Will Kimmel (5 races for TriStar Motorsports) -#51 Jeremy Clements (Jeremy Clements Racing) -#52 Joey Gase (Means Racing) -#54 Kyle Busch & Sam Hornish Jr. (Joe Gibbs Racing) -#60 Chris Buescher (part-time for Roush Fenway Racing) -#62 Brendan Gaughan (Richard Childress Racing) -#67 Tommy Joe Martins (Martins Motorsports) -#76 Willie Allen (Martins Motorsports) -#79 Maryeve Dufault (12 races for Go Green Racing) -#99 James Buescher (RAB Racing) -#5 Kasey Kahne & Kevin Harvick (Jr. Motorsports) -#88 Dale Earnhardt Jr. (Jr. Motorsports) -#55 Jamie Dick (part-time for Viva Motorsports) -#84 Chad Boat (15 races for Billy Boat Motorsports) -#98 David Ragan (Daytona for Biagi-DenBeste Racing) -#13 Derek White (3 races for JGL Racing) -#28 Mike Wallace (Daytona for JGL Racing) -#93 Matt Carter (JGL Racing) -#19 Mike Bliss (TriStar Motorsports) -#? Michael Disdier (Daytona for a, so far, unannounced team) -#73 Derrike Cope (Creation Cope Racing), #85 Bobby Gerhart (Gerhart Racing), #17 Tanner Berryhill (Vision Racing), & #37 Matt DiBenedetto (Vision Racing) all tested at Daytona but have given any announcements on how many, if any, races they'll be attempting. 2057. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 4:41 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow, Ben Scrivens. Just, wow! 2058. David posted: 01.30.2014 - 10:43 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Somewhat breaking news: Michael Waltrip Racing has formed a partnership with Jay Robinson Racing which will allow the #66 Toyota to run in all 36 events this year. Michael Waltrip will run the Daytona 500 (as previously announced) and the May Talladega race. Jeff Burton will run six to eight races, starting with the Las Vegas event. Joe Nemechek will run the remainder of the races. 2059. The Long Shot posted: 01.30.2014 - 12:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Technically, the team is actually brand new. The JRR/NEMCO team merged with some business executives to form a new team called Identity Ventures Racing. 2060. jabber1990 posted: 01.30.2014 - 12:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) is Nemecheck going to run the full race or Start and Park? 2061. Daniel posted: 01.30.2014 - 12:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like one of those deals where it's two-different teams using the same number, like Childress and CircleSport with the #33 last year. 2062. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.30.2014 - 1:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sounds like one of those deals where it's two-different teams using the same number, like Childress and CircleSport with the #33 last year." How the hell does that work? 2 teams using the same # i mean. 2063. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well the news we have been dreading is here. According to BZF, the new system is "as simple as it gets". Yeah right. 2064. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.30.2014 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Talladega will be an elimination race, that'll be fun. *note some amount of sarcasm is in this post* 2065. jabber1990 posted: 01.30.2014 - 1:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) a few years ago it was either Pearson or Yarbough told NASCAR.com that we should have a 43 car field for the chase and whoever wins the race is the champion even though he was being sarcastic (obviously he's not a fan of the Chase) I still think we should all stop coming up with terrible (sarcastic) ideas before Brian France takes our ideas and actually uses them I guess I could say "why don't we all shut up" but we all know that I won't so I don't want others to 2066. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 1:42 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Holy cow I just read (via the frontstretch) that under this system DALE JR would have won the championship last year. Which of course, is interesting on many different levels, but chiefly the fact that Jr didn't win a single race, yet this new system is supposed to be "all about winning". Yup. 2067. DB1995 posted: 01.30.2014 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So basically Josh Wise could win the Daytona 500 then start and park every race after that and be guaranteed 16th in points at least, even if he was like 40th in points? I dont like it but you know Brian France knows best..... 2068. murb posted: 01.30.2014 - 1:53 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) "Brainless" Brian France. 2069. startandparkfan posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There were 13 winners last year, what happens in this situation? Does it go to the top winless drivers in points? 2070. Mike posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) What an absolute joke. Brian France is turning what was once a great sport into pure garbage. 2071. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Talladega will be an elimination race, that'll be fun. *note some amount of sarcasm is in this post*" You might have been sarcastic when you said that, but I think that will be EXTREMELY fun. "So basically Josh Wise could win the Daytona 500 then start and park every race after that and be guaranteed 16th in points at least, even if he was like 40th in points? I dont like it but you know Brian France knows best....." You have to be at least 30th in points. Also, you have to attempt all 26 races. The only exception are SOME medical exemptions. "There were 13 winners last year, what happens in this situation?" For one, I don't know if you included them or not, but Brian Vickers and (likely) Tony Stewart would not have been included in The Chase. But, according to Dustin Long, if there were only (for example) 11 winners, then top 5 highest non winners would get in. 2072. David posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:12 pm Rate this comment: (7) (0) Well, there it is. The NASCAR Sprint Cup championship just lost all meaning it had from this point forward. It means nothing to me now. I will still watch NASCAR, but this change destroyed every last bit of value in that Sprint Cup trophy. By the way, lost in the announcement: The top 15 winners get in, and the points leader after 26 is reserved a spot if he does not win. We wanted NASCAR to reward the points leader going into the Chase? There you have it. 2073. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So NASCAR is actually going with this elimination thing and letting all winners be in the Chase automatically? They better also set a rule that states that you HAVE to at least be in the Top 20 in points to be in the Chase, because just allowing all winners into it would allow people not even running the full schedule who might get a plate win (Brad K would have made it that way in 2009 had the system existed that year) is madness. Then again, I guess that's what today's NASCAR is the epitome of. 2074. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So NASCAR is actually going with this elimination thing and letting all winners be in the Chase automatically? They better also set a rule that states that you HAVE to at least be in the Top 20 in points to be in the Chase, because just allowing all winners into it would allow people not even running the full schedule who might get a plate win (Brad K would have made it that way in 2009 had the system existed that year) is madness." The limit is the top 30 in points. A part time driver won't make The Chase. You have to attempt all 26 races. Only exception are SOME medical exemptions. 2075. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) In good news, I was glad to hear about Ryan Blaney getting a chance at a couple of Cup races this year. The way he drives is very smart, and he knows when to be aggressive and how to make moves work for him. He'll definitely succeed in the right situation. Also glad to hear that Paul Wolfe signed an extension for four more years with Penske and Brad. 2076. jabber1990 posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So NASCAR is actually going with this elimination thing and letting all winners be in the Chase automatically? " I don't think that's going to go wrong See: Tony Stewart 2013 (29th) (I'm sure there are others) 2077. jabber1990 posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think that every rule that is enacted to get race winners into the chase should be called the "Jamie McMurray Rule" I could say the "Kyle Busch" Rule, but there is something he'll do that will cause a rule change (give it time) 2078. murb posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:44 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) I really like what Ryan Newman said (and Carl Edwards too). In a nut shell, Newman basically said "This is Nascar, not the NFL or NBA". And he's damn right. I'm sick and tired of this fascination with trying to be the NFL on wheels, and I have no idea why they continue to attempt to be that. Is it because they legitimately think they can compete with the NFL? Because if so, there is absolutely ZERO chance of that being a realistic possibility. What's made Nascar so great for all these years is that it hasn't been like any other sport. That was a huge reason in why it was so much fun. But now, like he's always done, Brainless Brian France has flushed all of that uniqueness straight down the toilet. One other last thought. Why the hell would you completely ripoff the NFL's system if your goal is to compete head to head with them? Why not bring stuff to the table that the NFL doesn't have? Ugh. I HATE The France Administration with a passion. I totally agree with David. I'll keep watching, but it's just a damn shame to see them continue to gimmick it up and deface the Cup championship. 2079. MStall41 posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Really looking forward to all of the "OMG BRIAN FRANCE IS AN ASS NEVER GONNA WATCH NASCAR EVER AGAIN" posts in this thread, and then proceed to see those same people whine later on in the year about how much (insert 2014 Sprint Cup race here)sucked, prompting another cycle of "NEVER GONNA WATCH NASCAR EVER AGAIN" posts. As for me, I don't completely agree with the new system, I like some aspects of it and dislike other aspects. Regardless of that fact, every team going into the season is operating under the same points system, and each will need to tailor a strategy that fits this system. In that sense, the system is perfectly fair. Is it the right system? No. But guess what? If you plan on continuing to be a NASCAR fan and you don't want to be miserable every time you watch, your best bet is to try to give the new format a chance with an open mind and accept it for what it is. It is not going to change, so there really isn't much point in getting riled up about it at this point. 2080. murb posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) And also, yeah, it is gonna be a fun system to watch. But I'll go back to what Joey2448 said on CJS's blog when these changes were first being toyed with. Would you rather have an exciting but artificial points battle (which is what this system will be), or a legit points battle, even if that means having some duller moments every now and then. For me, it's definitely the second option. I know "I watch Nascar to be entertained" is gonna be brought up a shit ton by the people who agree with this system. And yeah, I watch it to be entertained too. But for me to be entertained, I would rather see two guys who have been the best all year (a la Johnson and Kenseth last year) duke it out over a ten race stretch than see a gimmicked up "Four Men Enter, One Leaves" finale. Sure, it'll be exciting. But I would much rather see purity. That's just how I am. 2081. MStall41 posted: 01.30.2014 - 2:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (3) Another point: NASCAR fans must absolutely DETEST NCAA March Madness Basketball. For all intents and purposes, that playoff system is far more gimmicky than anything NASCAR has ever come up with. A team can go 31-0 during the regular season, then proceed to win their conference championship, advance all the way to the National Championship and......lose to a mid-major team that "got hot" at the right time. And guess what? Sports fans around America love it. You can't sit here and logically tell me that what NASCAR is doing is really all that much different. In fact, it is far less extreme than the NCAA Tournament in terms of crowning what may be perceived to be an "undeserving champion." In that sense, I will never, ever understand why NASCAR fans are so threatened by playoff system. Tony Stewart getting hot and advancing to the "Chase finale" so to speak at the end of 2011 is qualitatively no different than Butler getting hot at the end of the '11 and '12 March Madness tourneys and advancing to the finals. NASCAR fans just have to tweak their mindsets a bit and shift away from the one they just seem stuck in, because this new format isn't all that radical compared to any number of other sports playoff systems. 2082. JG24shouldbe5time posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:09 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Well, I see that the worst kept secret in American motorsports has come true and my initial reaction is @#$% You Brian (brainless) Z (as in zombie) France. Seriously, when fans asked for a change in the Chase, this isn't what we were looking for. Sure, NASCAR is putting its spin on it and how they used stats and metrics from fans...yada yada. But to me this seems like scripted-for-TV, manufactured drama that will keep FOX and NBC Sports execs happy after investing $x million over the next several years. If you close your eyes and imagine, I'll bet you can hear DW and Larry Mac hyping it right now. I don't think a convoluted point and playoff system and all these made for sponsorship rounds ("the Challenger Round, brought to you by Dodge")are going to win over new fans that the sport so desperately seems to be reaching for. I will admit that (I think) I'm ok with the emphasis on wins, rather than points racing...but I hate to see guys that are consistent front runners get shuffled out if they don't get a win, have a few bad races and not-so-consistent guys will maybe pick-up a win or better position. I'm also happy that MAYBE we will see someone else win the season title instead of JJ...you know, maybe. It should be fun reading all the reactions online today! 2083. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:28 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) This is NASCAR's version of The Day the Music Died. RIP "Greatness" 1949-2003 2084. Daniel posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) #2062, At the Daytona 500 last year, Austin Dillon drove the #33 which was listed with Joe Falk as the owner, but was fielded by RCR. The next week at Phoenix, Landon Cassill was behind the wheel of the #33. Joe Falk was again listed as the owner and this time, his time actually did field the car. Throughout the year, there was always a #33 entered, it always had Falk listed as the owner, but it was two different teams fielding those cars. Some races it was Childress and some races it was actually Falk. ML Motorsports did the same thing. When Johanna Long raced, they fielded the #70. There were races they didn't enter, where NEMCO Motorsports fielded the #70 with ML Motorsports still listed as the owner. In 2012, there was always a #10 entered. The races with Danica driving it, Stewart-Haas fielded the car, even though Tommy Baldwin was listed as the owner. When Reutimann was behind the wheel, Tommy Baldwin fielded the car. It looks like when Waltrip and Burton are driving the #66, it will come from the MWR shops and when Nemechek drives it, though Waltrip will be listed as the owner, that it will come from his team's shop and not MWR. That's what I mean when I say it looks like two teams will be using the same number. 2085. Daniel posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) As for the new system, simple, quit watching it. I'm watching ARCA, indycar, truck series, and the duels. I may give in and watch they Daytona 500, but other than that, to heck with Cup racing. The only way anything is going to change is if you quit watching it. 2086. startandparkfan posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) Future Points System: 43 driver field- at the end of every chase race, the points are closed up for every driver. The winner of homestead is the champ, but this can be overridden if another driver gets more than 10,000 tweets. Champion- Danica Patrick 2087. dennyfan11 posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RIP when the chase was good. 2004-2013. You will be missed. 2088. startandparkfan posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Love how France said this system will be more popular among fans, and easier to understand, it is neither. 2089. dennyfan11 posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:54 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) It could be worse... After the final race,the standings are inverted. All limits on cars removed,if it has wheels and a motor,it is eligible to win the championship. everything must have a sponsor,including turns and laps. NO Exceptions. Races will all be broadcast on Fox Sports 15,1,000,000 dollars. Drivers now have 10 beer kegs inside cars at all times. Much like 24 hours of lemons,at halfway,least popular car is crushed. After every lap,the drivers will add points based on poisition. If you are running 1st on any lap,you get 47 points if you lead a lap, 42 if 2nd, etc. bonus points will be given at every 16th of a lap to the leader at that time. Nationwide regulars are banned from Nationwide,series will be called the Kyle Busch Series. Every race will have an atomic bomb racing,it may or may not be armed. The commentators will be drunk,and/or on drugs. Commentators must mention Danica once every lap regardless of poisition or if she is in race of not. Commentators will be 3 death metal vocalists(talking like he/she sings) Pit road will have hurdles and cars must jump over them. Cars will have spikes on sides of wheels. After every race,1st and 2nd must play a game of chess to determine the winner if there is a photo finish. And finally,Danica and/or Mikhael Aleshin must win 2 races a year. 2090. startandparkfan posted: 01.30.2014 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) DennyFan11, SSSSH, Brian might hear you! 2091. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) To rehash an earlier statement I made, I WILL continue to watch NASCAR, but I am done taking the championship seriously. I will just be tuning in for the actual races themselves, whereas I used to tune in for a mix of both race and points watching. That's MY attitude going into this season. I think that we could very well still have a worthwhile season of racing to watch with some fun stuff on tap, and hopefully that's what we get, but I couldn't give a crap less about the title anymore. Apologies if this was too rude a post. 2092. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Let's see... the idiot points would leave the following as champions... never mind... read the blog instead and find out for yourself. 2093. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 4:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Changes include: � A victory in the first 26 races all but guarantees a berth in the 10-race Chase for the Sprint Cup -- a change that will put unprecedented importance on winning a Cup race during the season; � Expanding the Chase field from 12 to 16 drivers, with those drivers advancing to what now will be known as the NASCAR Chase Grid; � The number of drivers in contention for the championship will decrease after every three Chase races, from 16 to start in the Chase Grid to 12 after Chase race No. 3 to eight after Chase race No. 6 and to four after Chase race No. 9; � The first three races of the Chase (Nos. 27-29 overall) will be known as the Challenger Round; races 30-32 will be known as the Contender Round; races 33-35 will be the Eliminator Round and race No. 36 will be the NASCAR Sprint Cup Championship; � A win by a championship-eligible driver in any Chase race clinches the winning driver a spot in the next round; � Four drivers will enter the championship with a chance at the title, and the Cup will go to the highest finisher among those four in that final race. � Overall points will reset to 2,000 for the Chase, with drivers getting three bonus points for each win during the regular season (but not Chase wins). Also, bonus points for leading a lap and for the driver who leads the most laps in a race will still be given in all but the final race of the season. Cue the Dragnet theme! A win a round a guaranteed advance? Really? Da f*ck? 2094. 18fan posted: 01.30.2014 - 5:29 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) Brian France's biggest problem is that he keeps trying to change the points system instead of focusing on making the cars race better. 2095. joey2448 posted: 01.30.2014 - 5:30 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Since the idea was first floated out there, I've been trying to give NASCAR the benefit of the doubt. Ultimately, I can live with most of the changes, such as the elimination of four drivers every three races. I mean, after three Chase races, we can usually realistically eliminate the last three or four drivers anyway. I think 16 drivers is way too many, they should go back to 10, but again, it ain't the worst thing in the world. The one thing I simply CANNOT stand to see implemented, is the winner-take-all season finale at Homestead. That is a travesty. Like David said, NASCAR's premier championship just lost all it's luster with a gimmick like that. It simply leaves too many things to be decided by chance. I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but NASCAR is trying too hard to be like other ball sports. At this point, I will simply be watching NASCAR for the racing itself, and to see who can pull out the win each week. Winning races at Darlington, Martinsville, Bristol, Richmond, Fontana, Atlanta, Sonoma, Watkins Glen, Pocono and even Indianapolis (for the prestige) will be the most impressive accomplishment of the year for a driver, not winning the title. If NASCAR wants to be like ball sports, they should emulate tennis. All the attention is focused on who can win the big prizes -- the majors. The most important things the sport should focus on is the major races, and the championship, but they've gimmicked it all up! 2096. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.30.2014 - 5:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So based on my understanding of the rules the final Chase standings applied to last year based on the new system would be as follows (holding all things constant, which often times they wouldn't be)... 1. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 2. Jimmie Johnson 3. Kevin Harvick 4. Jeff Gordon 5. Matt Kenseth 6. Kyle Busch 7. Clint Bowyer 8. Joey Logano 9. Greg Biffle 10. Martin Truex Jr. 11. Kurt Busch 12. Ryan Newman 13. Kasey Kahne 14. Jamie McMurray 15. Carl Edwards 16. David Ragan I didn't include Stewart because I don't think he would have been exempted. 2097. Waynerd posted: 01.30.2014 - 5:47 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) You guys are missing the worse part. The first 26 races are even MORE meaningless. The whole problem I had with the old system was the first 26 races were an extended test session for so many guys. Last year instead of giving 3 bonus points per regular season win, if they would of just re-set the points even, there would of been no difference in the final standings expect Dale Jr. getting 4th in points and Kyle Busch getting 5th in points. And you think guys are wasting their energy on those 26 races? Once you get 1 win, the rest of the regular season is a joke. OK you get 3 bonus points plus 2,000 points for the first 3 races when the field goes down from 16 to 12. Once the field goes down to 12 to 8 everyone get's 3,000 points, 8 to 4 everyone get's 4,000. All I want is for the first 26 races to actually mean something. And you know who is going to get eliminated from 16 to 12? The David Ragan's and the guys who had no chance of a title shot. You think Jimmie Johnson, Matt Kenseth, Kevin Harvick etc. care about regular season wins or the regular season what so ever after they get 1 win? For most of the drivers the regular season is just an extended test session...even more now! Bristol Night Race...yawn off week (just ask Jimmie Johnson he will admit this) Darlington...yawn off week too demanding of a track to waste a regular season race on Road Courses, Atlanta, Coke 600, Martinsville, Richmond yawn - all I need is 1 win. This system makes the regular season meaningless and so does the last 1. 2098. Waynerd posted: 01.30.2014 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And No I'm not watching the Sprint Cup series only the truck series, which I will continue to do. Just make the regular season somewhat important, that's all I ask. 2099. MStall41 posted: 01.30.2014 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (3) "2098. Waynerd posted: 01.30.2014 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And No I'm not watching the Sprint Cup series only the truck series, which I will continue to do. Just make the regular season somewhat important, that's all I ask." This guy will end up watching the Daytona 500 and multiple other Cup races this year 2100. Waynerd posted: 01.30.2014 - 6:30 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) Mstall instead of attacking let's have a conversation. Don't you feel like the regular season is meaningless now? I stopped after Chicagoland last year. Also for the record MStall I would be in favor of this format, if they made the regular season more important. And fix up the season finale stuff. 2101. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ""And No I'm not watching the Sprint Cup series only the truck series, which I will continue to do. Just make the regular season somewhat important, that's all I ask." This guy will end up watching the Daytona 500 and multiple other Cup races this year" To quote the great Redd Foxx: "Youse damned stupid, Lamont!" Is attacking people who don't a) 100% agree with everything NASCAR does and b) worship Jimmie Johnson as King of Kings and Savior of Mankind a hobby of yours? I have seen plenty of people put up quite intelligent conversations even without watching the races on TV. 2102. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.30.2014 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Another point: NASCAR fans must absolutely DETEST NCAA March Madness Basketball. For all intents and purposes, that playoff system is far more gimmicky than anything NASCAR has ever come up with. A team can go 31-0 during the regular season, then proceed to win their conference championship, advance all the way to the National Championship and......lose to a mid-major team that "got hot" at the right time. And guess what? Sports fans around America love it. You can't sit here and logically tell me that what NASCAR is doing is really all that much different. In fact, it is far less extreme than the NCAA Tournament in terms of crowning what may be perceived to be an "undeserving champion." In that sense, I will never, ever understand why NASCAR fans are so threatened by playoff system. Tony Stewart getting hot and advancing to the "Chase finale" so to speak at the end of 2011 is qualitatively no different than Butler getting hot at the end of the '11 and '12 March Madness tourneys and advancing to the finals. NASCAR fans just have to tweak their mindsets a bit and shift away from the one they just seem stuck in, because this new format isn't all that radical compared to any number of other sports playoff systems." Thanks for speaking on my behalf, you media folk do that very well. The little fact that you Chase lovers love to ignore is that in racing; in at least the major national/international series' is that the competitors for the championship(realistically) face each other at the SAME time at the SAME track for every race! When Dos Jotas raced for the championship last year; regardless of the format, he had to compete against Kenseth, Gordon, Jr., Harvick, Edwards, BK, the Busch's, even Danica Patrick as "The Caboose" at each Sprint Cup event. I'm an IU fan and alum; my school was ranked #1 for the most weeks in the 2012-13 season. But the fact of the matter is that they only played about 25 of the over 350 schools eliglible for the Div. I title. Who knows if IU was better than Louisville, Kansas, Duke, Syracuse, or Michigan(oh wait, IU was better..swept them). Each of those schools played games at different places, at different times, against different competition, and sometimes under unique circumstances(weather delays, travel problems, etc.) But I do know that Dos Jotas was the best driver/team in 2013 for the whole season because they raced against their competition at the same place at the same time. No differences in weather, track conditions, some car leaving oil on the track in 1 race and not at another, nonsensical late debris cautions, and so on. 2103. R689 posted: 01.30.2014 - 6:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) correct me if im wrong, but if a driver was to win the first 35 races of the year, but finished 3rd at Homestead behind another contender he loses the championship, That just sounds wonderful, I can only hope the system backfires on 1 of NASCARs loves like Johnson or Jr. and they lose the championship in some BS way 2104. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.30.2014 - 6:45 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "Thanks for speaking on my behalf, you media folk do that very well. The little fact that you Chase lovers love to ignore is that in racing; in at least the major national/international series' is that the competitors for the championship(realistically) face each other at the SAME time at the SAME track for every race! When Dos Jotas raced for the championship last year; regardless of the format, he had to compete against Kenseth, Gordon, Jr., Harvick, Edwards, BK, the Busch's, even Danica Patrick as "The Caboose" at each Sprint Cup event. I'm an IU fan and alum; my school was ranked #1 for the most weeks in the 2012-13 season. But the fact of the matter is that they only played about 25 of the over 350 schools eliglible for the Div. I title. Who knows if IU was better than Louisville, Kansas, Duke, Syracuse, or Michigan(oh wait, IU was better..swept them). Each of those schools played games at different places, at different times, against different competition, and sometimes under unique circumstances(weather delays, travel problems, etc.) But I do know that Dos Jotas was the best driver/team in 2013 for the whole season because they raced against their competition at the same place at the same time. No differences in weather, track conditions, some car leaving oil on the track in 1 race and not at another, nonsensical late debris cautions, and so on. " This is everything I want to say, but I couldn't find the words. 2105. Waynerd posted: 01.30.2014 - 6:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) That is correct R689. Can you imagine if that said person get's a flat tire at Homestead? Or what if another driver wrecks him on accident? Or what if one of the other drivers' wreck him at Homestead on "accident" (that would be great! How would they prove it?) 2106. MStall41 posted: 01.30.2014 - 6:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Mstall instead of attacking let's have a conversation. Don't you feel like the regular season is meaningless now? I stopped after Chicagoland last year. Also for the record MStall I would be in favor of this format, if they made the regular season more important. And fix up the season finale stuff." The regular season is not meaningless now. It was never meaningless. I never understood that argument. In this current system, you have to win races in the regular season in order to a) gain a Chase berth and b) better your position within the Chase. If anything, this system makes the regular season races more important since a win by any driver in that particular race directly improves their standing in the Chase. I don't see how you could say the regular season races are meaningless when each individual race directly affects the playoffs. And Chad's Hair Plugs, I wasn't "speaking on your behalf." I was simply pointing out that there's nothing that the fans can do to change this points system, and that trying to at least change their mindset about playoffs and whatnot would help them enjoy the season more. I didn't say you HAVE to change your mindset towards it, I'm just saying that if you want to enjoy NASCAR this year, the only way your going to enjoy it is if you try to approach this points system from a fresh perspective. I don't see anything wrong with suggesting that. 2107. MStall41 posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, the whole "you can win 35 races and still not win the championship" argument is silly. That is never going to happen and to even suggest it is pointless. You could also finish 8th every race under the old pre-2004 points system and win the championship. No system is perfect. 2108. Waynerd posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) But MStall after 1 win then the regular season is meaningless for the driver. Before that yeah, then it is important. 3 points is nothing for the top guys because they are guaranteed basically to make it out of the first round. And the 3 points is only for the first round. It's not meaningless but 98% of the effort of these teams will be the chase. And I don't like that towards track like Darlington the Bristol night race etc. Jimmie Johnson ADMITTED that he doesn't take tracks like Bristol seriously because they are not in the Chase. If you re-set the points system to 0 for all the chase guys in the past the final standings are exactly the same minus 1-2 positions. So why should drivers/teams not spend 98% of their time on the Chase tracks? 2109. MStall41 posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:12 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "But MStall after 1 win then the regular season is meaningless for the driver. Before that yeah, then it is important. 3 points is nothing for the top guys because they are guaranteed basically to make it out of the first round. And the 3 points is only for the first round." Yes, but you are forgetting that the elimination happens after only 3 races. That is not very much time to build a points lead. Every single little point a driver can get is going to be worth quite a bit. There is a massive incentive under this system to get the best finish you possible can get. Another thing to keep in mind is that given the fact that the there will likely be around 4 guys who get into the Chase every year with no wins, there will still be an incentive to maintain a high points position in the event that a) more than 16 drivers win regular season races or b)they don't get any wins and need to get in on the strength of their points finish. Lets say 12 drivers win before the regular season this year. Of those 12, 4-5 of them will be multi-race winners, while the rest will be one-race winners. The one-race winners will all still be scrambling as the regular season winds down in order to grab extra wins, because they know full well that the guys with multiple wins will have a big advantage going into the Chase that will be tough to make up. The guys with multiple wins will be attempting to pad their points leads as much as possible in the event that they have trouble in an early Chase race. And the guys who are winless will be driving like crazy to get a victory. To me, I don't see how any of that leads to an idea in which "winning a race renders the rest of the season meaningless." 2110. Ricky Carmichael's Troll posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "Also, the whole "you can win 35 races and still not win the championship" argument is silly. That is never going to happen and to even suggest it is pointless. You could also finish 8th every race under the old pre-2004 points system and win the championship. No system is perfect. " Based on my 2002 and 2004 seasons, I'm gonna kick yo' @$$. 2111. murb posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) "The one thing I simply CANNOT stand to see implemented, is the winner-take-all season finale at Homestead." I know, the more I think about that, the more it really upsets me. Watching a deserving champion get screwed out of the title just because of a flat tire or engine malfunction or whatever would be the hugest black eye in the history of the sport. Like I said before, I have yet to discover why they feel the need to be NFLCar. That's the main thought that keeps running through my head. The sport has survived totally fine for almost 70 years now with no "Game 7 Moments" or "Our version of the Super Bowl". Why this jackass (Brainless Brian) chooses to keep kicking sand over the history and tradition of this sport is beyond me. 2112. Waynerd posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The one-race winners will all still be scrambling as the regular season winds down in order to grab extra wins, because they know full well that the guys with multiple wins will have a big advantage going into the Chase that will be tough to make up." I disagree. Scrambling for extra wins? Ok let's say they scramble and manage to get 2 extra wins. Over the span of 3 races that equals 2 positions in a 43 car field. Said underdog driver get's 2 wins and a multi-win guy get's 1 win (at the end of the season.) That equals 1 spot average. When you have wrecks, and mechanical problems. Wouldn't it make more sense to get rested up for the Chase, take a few weeks off, and maybe R&D like a mad man for the chase races? And make sure to prevent any fluke things from happening? "To me, I don't see how any of that leads to an idea in which "winning a race renders the rest of the season meaningless." I misspoke their. I say the regular season is 2% focus chase 98% focus. IMO, 2004 and 2007 made the regular season barley meaningful and this system does too. I'm just complaining about it now, because when they would of thought about changing the system, I thought they would of thought about making the regular season a little more important then this system does now. 2113. murb posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, the whole "you can win 35 races and still not win the championship" argument is silly." 35 wins is an extreme example, but we can easily have a guy win 7 or 8 races and have a perfect season, only to be taken out by some joker at Homestead. Sure, the Nascar Championship Game (I just threw up in my mouth a little bit) will create excitement. But like I said before, would you rather have manufactured excitement, or would you rather watch two heavyweights duke it out over a 10 race stretch? If we absolutely are forced to use some kind of playoff system, I'm going with the previous Chase, because I would much rather see the latter. 2114. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And Chad's Hair Plugs, I wasn't "speaking on your behalf."" When I see must DETEST written like that, it implies that you're making a blanket statement. My bad. "I know, the more I think about that, the more it really upsets me. Watching a deserving champion get screwed out of the title just because of a flat tire or engine malfunction or whatever would be the hugest black eye in the history of the sport." With all the emphasis on winning races in the 1st 26, then through each of the terribly named 3-race segments, it would've made a hint of sense to give the drivers in the final 4 bonus points for each race won during the entire season so a driver that wins 10 times will be less likely to get screwed over by a flat tire or being blocked in on pit road on the last pit stop and a driver that wins maybe a race or two and 7th-10th's their way into the final 4 sneaks out with the title. Another thing I just thought of. Suppose a team or teams are caught in violation of a big no-no or try to pull the same shenanigans MWR did at Richmond. Is NASCAR willing to revoke a win that a team won in March or April for a penalty that occurs in Pocono or Michigan in August? Unless you're in David Ragan's position last year, a 50 point or even a 100 point penalty isn't going to put you in any danger of falling out of the top 30. 2115. jabber1990 posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think that 2011 proved that the Chase works, or doesn't work (depending on who's side you are on) Superstar comes in an underdog and then wins 2 races to silence the haters then wins 2 more and then wins a 5th (season high) and then wins in a "bottom of the 9th, bases loaded, 2 outs" against a guy who was a little less of an underdog but won by being consistent and being "Kensethy" but enough about that, we all know how 2011 was 2116. Scott B posted: 01.30.2014 - 7:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) After the MWR shenanigans going into the 2013 Chase, adding more elimination stages is just looking for trouble. If NASCAR doesn't do an absolutely consistant job policing anything that appears to be team orders, this is going to blow up in their faces. Although, I get the feeling that Brian France would be OK with the controversy as long as the results are a trending topic on Twitter. He doesn't seem to be a big picture guy when it comes to the future of the sport, as long as it generates some short term buzz, he's happy. 2117. Waynerd posted: 01.30.2014 - 8:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) MStall I just did a mock 1st round using last year's first 3 chase races. Do you still believe those 3 points are that important? MOCK 1st Round with 3 bonus points: T1. Matt Kenseth IN (2 chase wins) T1. Jimmie Johnson IN (1 chase win) 3. Kyle Busch 125 Points +45 4. Jeff Gordon 110 Points +30 5. Greg Biffle 105 Points +25 6. Kevin Harvick 104 Points +24 7. Ryan Newman 101 Points +21 T8. Clint Bowyer 98 Points +18 T8. Jamie McMurray 98 Points +18 10. Kurt Busch 94 Points +14 11. Dale Earnhadt Jr. 92 Points +12 12. Martin Truex Jr. 90 Points +10 ---------------------------------------- 13. Joey Logano 80 Points -10 14. Carl Edwards 78 Points -12 15. Kasey Kahne 71 Points -19 16. David Ragan 53 Points -37 System with no regular season win bonus points: T1. Matt Kenseth IN (2 chase wins) T1. Jimmie Johnson IN (1 chase win) 3. Kyle Busch 113 Points +36 (instead of +45) 4. Jeff Gordon 110 Points +33 (instead of +30) 5. Greg Biffle 102 Points +25 (instead of +25) T6. Kevin Harvick 98 Points +21 (instead of +24) T6. Ryan Newman 98 Points +21 (instead of +21) T6. Clint Bowyer 98 Points +21 (instead of +18) T6. Jamie McMurray 98 Points +21 (instead of +18) 10. Kurt Busch 94 Points +17 (instead of +14) 11. Dale Earnhardt Jr. 92 Points +15 (instead of +12) 12. Martin Truex Jr. 87 Points +10 (instead of +10) ---------------------------------- 13. Joey Logano 77 Points 14. Carl Edwards 72 Points 15. Kasey Kahne 65 Points 16. David Ragan 50 Points Or do you think it would be better to R&D like crazy for the chase make sure at all costs you don't have any mechanical problems in the chase, and take some weeks off so your ready and focused for the chase? 2118. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.30.2014 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) NASCAR went with this? Seriously...SERIOUSLY!? You know what, I'm done with NASCAR's Championship battles now. I thought the chase was fine, the 12 driver field thing was fine. Two guys making it in on wins was...ok, but I thought one should be via wins and the other should be via most poles won by someone not in the top 10 in points. But this is why I can NOT support the system: A) This is little more then a NFL playoffs super-bowl thing. Lost a game in the playoffs, even if you pulled 13-0 or something like that? To bad, you're done! I don't want to watch elimination, I think elimination is a f*cking piece of SH*T in NASCAR races. Everyone loves elimination, but I see that as manufacturing excitement in the back of the feild just to satisfy people. B) This system will be very easy to manipulate by teams that want to win. Jimmie Johnson will probably get some wins (3 to 5) in early in the year, test things from then on out, and then just go on a tear with constant top 10 after top 10 after top 10 in the chase. While that's no different from what we already have, the worst part of it all is that at Homestead, all we need is another viva 2010, and Johnson almost backs into the championship by default. C) Consistency is now rewarded less then ever. I like the Chase because you had to be consistent across at least 22 of the 26 non-chase races to make it in, and you had three of four you could afford to F*ck up with. A bit of breathing room, but it keeps things like Kyle Busch 2009, Jeff Gordon 2005, and Stewart 2006 out of the hunt because they were inconsistent in the normal season regardless on wether or not they went on a tear in the last 10 events. If you DID make it good for the first 22 out of 26 races, you're in, and you need to stay consistent for 9 (or all 10) events of the new season. I liked the way the first half of 2009's chase set up because Juan Pablo Montoya, Mark Martin, and Johnson were all being very consistent and it just became a matter of who would fall into atrophy the fastest and have the best or worst recovery over the second half of the chase. Now? Win 3 to 5 races, blow engines in 10 events viva R&D engines, and have a few top 5's or 10's. Yipee, you are guaranteed a top 3 starting spot. The element of consistency for the first 26 is near totally aborted. In addition, you could bullsh*t races 6 of the first 9 races if you win Race 1, 4, and 7 for example, then go into the finale and win the race or finish ahead of your opponets. Congratulations. You've won 5-8 races, had finishes outside of the top 20 on 16 accounts, and can now walk away as the Champion despite having a season that is among the statistically worst on record! Sure, some of you will immedately call me down and say 'No one is going to do that'. Bullsh*t, drivers like Johnson will. People with a mindset like Jeff Burton will (2002 Winston anyone?) Anyone with a clever head and a fair amount of luck can win the championship. A man like Dale Sr could probably win 10 championships under this format, because he also was a thinker (an aggresive one with a strong presence on and off the track). D) This set-up is SO easy for NASCAR to set up their own champions. I predict Johnson will win of the next three championships with this system, and Danica Patrick will win one of the next 5. Johnson for 'historical' sake, and Danica so that NASCAR has become 'Politically corrrrrrect'. How so? Make a car considerably faster, allow errs on pit lane, call out errs on other people on pit lane or on the racetrack (See Harvick, Homestead 2010) or penalize people for infractions that don't really mean jacksh*t (See Martin, 1990 or Bowyer, 2010?) And don't say that NASCAR hasn't fixed events. I think that Johnson dishonestly won 2010, and Dale Sr dishonestly won 1990. Do I think that either driver knew that it was set up? For Dale, no. Johnson? Unkown, but surely Chad knew. Look at the fuel mileage the car was getting at Phoneix. Then I can go over various races that I or others believe were set up. We won't go into that list because we could stand around fighting about it all day long, but regardless. E) And this is the most noteworthy one. What is to stop Team Orders from abounding here? KC Khane suddendly hooks Matt Kenseth, who had the dominate car of the day at Kansas. With that, Martin Truex Jr wins the race and Johnson finishes second, while Kenseth finishes 27th a lap down...oops, your behind. What's that? Paul Menard has spun on the track? Well, that's great, because Kevin Harvick, the only man who hasn't pitted under green yet, will be able to come in for fresh tires and fuel and come out as the leader. The list goes on and on when it comes to possibilities. - - - - Oh, don't worry, I'll still watch some races and comment on here. But don't talk about points with me. I don't care if Johnson wins 4 more championships with this system, they mean nothing to me now. Plate events (Maybe not the talladega chase one...), Pocono, Bristol Night, Kansas events (Maybe not chase), Darlington, Coke 600. Maybe Fontana if they put on another great show. but that's about it. - - - - That's it. I've said my pieces. Now who the hell was the last person to use that d@nm Donny Lia bucket, because I need it now. Rest Peacefully: Nascar Chase for the Cup: 2004-2013. Compared to what we are getting now, everyone who liked or hate you will miss you now. Rest Peacefully: Nascar Logical/Semi-Logical point systems: 1948-1971, 1972-2003, and 2003-2013. 2119. SpeedWorld97 posted: 01.30.2014 - 9:17 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I have so many negative thoughts about this new chase, but instead of typing it all I'll just say this: This new chase makes winning the Sprint Cup Championship just as meaningless as Kyle Busch winning a Nationwide race. 2120. Zackary Shawn posted: 01.30.2014 - 9:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Another thing I just thought of. Suppose a team or teams are caught in violation of a big no-no or try to pull the same shenanigans MWR did at Richmond. Is NASCAR willing to revoke a win that a team won in March or April for a penalty that occurs in Pocono or Michigan in August? Unless you're in David Ragan's position last year, a 50 point or even a 100 point penalty isn't going to put you in any danger of falling out of the top 30." NASCAR more or less said that if you get caught with an illegal part on your car after winning a race that the win essentially won't count for either a spot in the Chase, bonus points to start to Chase, or automatic advancement during the three rounds. The driver will still get credit for winning the race just none of the perks that now come with it. 2121. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.30.2014 - 10:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NASCAR more or less said that if you get caught with an illegal part on your car after winning a race that the win essentially won't count for either a spot in the Chase, bonus points to start to Chase, or automatic advancement during the three rounds. The driver will still get credit for winning the race just none of the perks that now come with it." I'm not referring to the race that driver wins, I'm referring to future races where any penalties may occur. What's gonna stop a team from trying anything to break the rules in the 1st 26 to gain an advantage in the Chase(s) or helping a teammate clinch a spot in the Chase through some chicanery when they already have a W in the bank? 2122. 18fan posted: 01.30.2014 - 10:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) There is definitely the opportunity for more team-order shenanigans throughout the season. I think the more I think about this system I like it less and less. And DW, not unsurprisingly, is kissing NASCAR's ass on Twitter. 2123. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 01.30.2014 - 10:18 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) "And DW, not unsurprisingly, is kissing NASCAR's ass on Twitter." He about serviced Bri-Bri when he was elected to the HOF. Would you expect anything less? 2124. Cornys posted: 01.30.2014 - 10:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Other sports have play-offs so that the champion can be decided with the best teams going against each other head to head. In auto-racing drivers must go hard week in a week out against all of their competitors at the same time. This leaves no room, nor any need for a play-off system. That is unless NASCAR is trying to bring in fans which short attention spans who don't want to watch 36 or 10 races, because that's too long. Turns out that those people wouldn't want to watch a 3 hour race in the first place. Next year the races will be shortened. I'd hate to see it. I have been gaining interest in Indy Car and Formula 1. Indy Car is still mostly pure, and I greatly appreciate that. I haven't missed a Cup race in 10 years, but this is the straw that will break the camel's back. I'm going to catch the races here and there that I like, and otherwise I'll likely ignore the Cup Series. I'm actually disappointed that I'm going to Martinsville in March now, and I've always wanted to make that trip. 2125. 18fan posted: 01.30.2014 - 10:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Obviously my previous post was supposed to read "not surprisingly". Like has been stated, when the field of competitors is the same every week, that does not lend itself to a playoff system. It works in team sports when there are only two teams playing, but when the drivers compete against each other every week, a season long points system (no matter how it is constructed) gives you a pretty good idea of which team was the best all season. The Chase was not great at that, but drivers still had to perform for 10 weeks to win the championship. 2126. VoteGillilandNotDanica2014 posted: 01.31.2014 - 1:25 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Words cannot express how angry I am right now. I can't put it into words. All I know is, I'll be keeping track of points standings sans "Chase", and I encourage you all to recognize the REAL champion, not the one NASCAR hands the trophy to. The championship under this format is an irrelevant, illegitimate fraud. A gimmicky abomination from the peanut-sized brain of a mouth-breathing mental midget. 2127. Scott. B posted: 01.31.2014 - 2:32 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I wonder how many years we have left before we see this: The final race becomes a segmented event. At the halfway mark, one of the four title contenders is eliminated. Then we take a halftime break, Creed or some other bottom of the barrel band that NASCAR mistakenly thinks is hot plays a few songs while teams are allowed to work on their cars. The race resumes with three title contenders, then halts again with 20 or 30 laps to go, at which time we have another break (maybe throw in a mandatory pit stop) and eliminate another driver. The final segment is now two drivers in a sprint length winner take all (with 41 other cars still on the track, of course). That should be enough drama. Ooh, but maybe if we're really lucky there will be a Green White Checkers at the end... yeah, I'm pretty sure I see some debris. 2128. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.31.2014 - 5:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Chase Champs under the new system: 2004: Jeff Gordon (with Johnson eliminated at Talladega! Fail!) 2005: Greg Biffle 2006: Denny Hamlin (the rookie!) 2007: Jeff Gordon 2008: Carl Edwards 2009: Kurt Busch 2010: Carl Edwards (with the reset, Edwards gets back in it and wins Homestead) 2011: Tony Stewart 2012: Clint Bowyer (yes, even with Jeff dumping him at Phoenix, Bowyer's 2nd wins it) 2013: Dale Earnhardt, Jr. (winless) 2129. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.31.2014 - 8:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) (Sees post 2128 by NicoRosbergFan about the champions of the last ten years using the 'new' chase system) Now all the casual Jeff Gordon fans (The ones who haven't been following the sport for 10 years or more) will embrace this new chase simply because Gordon would have won two more championships under it. I think Biffle winning 2005 is...fitting, but not nearly that good as Stewart. Don't remember enough about Hamlin's 2006 season. I know he swept the Pocono events from the poll (Viva training on NR2003 baby!), and blew a tire in the first section of the first race...but you almost forget that he was a contender at the finale. 2012: Bowyer. What the heller? 2013: And now all the casual and stereotypical Dale Jr fans will clamor that this is a great system because Jr would have won a championship under it. 2130. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.31.2014 - 9:03 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "(Sees post 2128 by NicoRosbergFan about the champions of the last ten years using the 'new' chase system) Now all the casual Jeff Gordon fans (The ones who haven't been following the sport for 10 years or more) will embrace this new chase simply because Gordon would have won two more championships under it. I think Biffle winning 2005 is...fitting, but not nearly that good as Stewart." Hardly... it does show though that basically the Chase 2004-2013 format is basically the only format that gives anyone but Jeff those titles. 2131. BluesTravelerFan posted: 01.31.2014 - 10:30 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Where's DSFF?(if he makes a comment in the next hour disregard this comment)I wonder what he's doing... 2132. Anonymous posted: 01.31.2014 - 10:45 am Rate this comment: (0) (2) http://bit.ly/1iTNU6N ^^^^ David Smiths take on the new playoffs. It's incredibly well done and should be required reading for every fan of this sport. 2133. The Long Shot posted: 01.31.2014 - 12:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) All I have to say about the new points system is this: can anyone deny that this system is very Danica-sided? Heaven knows that she isn't good enough to qualify for the Chase on talent alone, even if she won all 3 pre-Chase restrictor plate races. By implementing this, NASCAR is guaranteeing that should Danica win a race this year (I firmly believe that she's the favorite to win the 500), she will lock herself a spot in the Chase. Again, I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but you do really have to wonder. One point I wanted to comment on from the Smith article posted above: "So, yes, NASCAR has manufactured an exciting event ' call it a gimmick, if you must ' but it's what is very clearly needed in order to put NASCAR in the lap of potential new fans." Didn't we say the same thing 10 years ago, when the Chase was first created? Didn't people figure that the implementing of a playoff system for auto racing would increase its popularity all the more, when in fact all it did was decrease it? 2134. The Long Shot posted: 01.31.2014 - 12:26 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) However, just because I dislike the new system doesn't mean I won't have some fun with it. I'll attempt to compile the final standings for each NASCAR season since 1975 under this new Chase format (maybe I'll do it for Nationwide and Truck as well; who knows?). 2135. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 01.31.2014 - 12:27 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) I read the article linked by commenter #2132. So it's okay to ditch purity to achieve higher ratings? NO thanks. I think I'd rather stick with purity and lower attention. I feel that way with alot of things. Game consoles, sports, education, politics, Japanese anime, etc etc. I have no problem with Night Duels, as long as we keep the 500 starting in the Daytime (not twilight, start it in the daytime). If the 500 ends under daylight, sunset, or nightlight I don't care. But don't start the 500 at night. I do feel that I should spit that out to you right now. Let it be known today though, Mr. Smith, that NASCAR will never achieve the fame that football/baseball/basketball has here because there will always be a large portion of the American population that will see NASCAR has hillbillies and rich calfiornia boys driving in circles in the world's fastest demoltion derby. The majority of the masses can not respect consistency, they can not respect the mental toughness that NASCAR takes and how it is different from mental toughness in ball sports, and they can't (or refuse to) understand how much of a toll it takes for you to go up against 35/39/42 other drivers in intense 110 degree plus heat for 2-6 hours straight, making sure you don't cause a mistake. The closest NASCAR got to prime attention AND respect by the masses was 1979's Daytona 500. Even if the 2012 Jet Dryer incident brought attention, in retrospective, the mass public just shrugged and chalked it up to a southern hick crashing in a demo derby, even if that race up to that point had been relatively clean and Montoya isn't even of American decent. With that in mind, it will never break any higher then it did in the early 2000's, regardless of what changes occur. For Capcom to ditch there RE fanbase...er...NASCAR to ditch their fanbase just to appeal to the masses and be the next new type of 'game seven' will do nothing more then just piss of those loyal while the football fans go nowhere near your sport because they like football, and would rather watch the teams pick the players for the next season instead of a 'Dega race with 88 lead changes or a Watkins Glen race that looks straight out of 'Fast and Furious' en quote. So keep NASCAR pure to appeal to the motorsports fans. Not to appeal to the masses. 2136. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 01.31.2014 - 5:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Let it be known today though, Mr. Smith, that NASCAR will never achieve the fame that football/baseball/basketball has here because there will always be a large portion of the American population that will see NASCAR has hillbillies and rich calfiornia boys driving in circles in the world's fastest demoltion derby." NASCAR has achieved fame on its own way before all this stuff. NASCAR is still a successful business (and has been for years). NASCAR climbed up from 'nothing' too 'major league' in the span of 60 years. That isn't too fast and isn't too slow. Its just about right. NASCAR is still ranked amoung F1 and V8 Supercars as the best racing series in the world. Hell i know some people in Europe that follow NASCAR and could give a shit about F1. "The majority of the masses can not respect consistency, they can not respect the mental toughness that NASCAR takes and how it is different from mental toughness in ball sports, and they can't (or refuse to) understand how much of a toll it takes for you to go up against 35/39/42 other drivers in intense 110 degree plus heat for 2-6 hours straight, making sure you don't cause a mistake." Ignorence isn't an excuse too bash something. TV people could help NASCAR greatly by educating people (non-fans) about what NASCAR is and where is came from. However ignorence and stupidity will never go out of style. People ignorently bash Professional Wrestling, yet would never dare do what they do for a living (reguardless of what promotion you watch). The 'winners and losers' are predetermined but the bumps those guys take are real. AJ Styles, Austin Aries, Samoa Joe, The Undertaker and Kurt Angle all entertain me. Why? Because they are good at what they do. Same with NASCAR drivers, Jimmie, Jeff, Tony, Kurt and Matt all entertain me because they are good at what they do. If they weren't good wouldn't be watching know would i? In other news Micheal Schumachers doctors are slowly taking him out of the coma they put him in. So that is good news but also a rise. I'd like too get DSFFs opinion on this because he has more medical experience then the rest of us on here put together. 2137. DB1995 posted: 01.31.2014 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So with Arrowhead gone, TSM is laying off up to 20% of their employees and cannot run Jeb Burton full time, and in the thing on Jayski it sounds like they aren't sticking with Miguel Paludo either, as it said TSM will field 2 full time NNS cars Kyle Larson ( just leave him in nationwide another year if you are going to run him full time in both) and another driver to be named ( Dylan Kwasenieski however you spell it) and it says TSM will compete in the NCWTS with one full time team (#31 Ben Kennedy) and a part time team ( Brandon Jones and drivers tba) 2138. NicoRosbergFan posted: 01.31.2014 - 6:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'd guess F1, V8s, WRC, WTCC, WEC, FIA GT, and DTM are all bigger internationally then NASCAR, although ratings might prove me wrong. 2139. Scott B posted: 01.31.2014 - 6:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Having had time to digest some of these changes, here's how I feel... 1. Nightime Duels: Yes, I can accept that. Just have a Cup race at Darlington, on Labor Day weekend, and I'll concede this. 2. Sixteen cars in the Chase: Fine, pick a number. Ten, Twelve, Thirteen, Sixteen? Flexable depending on how many race winner there are? If we have to have a Chase, doesn't really matter to me. 3. Win One and In: Fine. I actually approve of this. If teams want to win once and then coast, that's their strategy call. Any "playoff" system leaves the potential for that to happen once a team clinches, so short of getting rid of the Chase entirely, not much to prevent it. Increasing the point bonus for winning and having it carry through the entire Chase (after each reset) would help, though. 4. Cutoff at 30th in points: OK, but doesn't seem necessary. Is a team performing below that level a realistic threat to win the Championship even under the new rules? I think not. You could just give them their bragging rights and watch them be eliminated. 4. Top driver in points after 26 in even without a win: Fine, unlikely to happen. 5. Full timers only: Fine, I think it's cool when a part timer wins a race, but I can understand excluding them from the championship. The exception for injuries is also OK, but I wish it was spelled out more clearly instead of make it up as we go along. 6. Additional top non-winners in points to fill out the Chase field: Meh. In most cases, they'll just be cannon fodder. 7. Multiple points resets and eliminations: Nope, nope, nope. For the reasons that have been already covered. 8. Will this produce better racing: Doubt it. One DNF in races 27-35 will most likely result in elimination at the next cutoff point. That makes conservative points racing a valid strategy, though NASCAR is trying to spin it as a go for broke deal. Will it produce a more unpredictable result, yes. 9. Will this produce an "underdog" Chase winner: Probably not underdog defined as someone who won one race and was 25th in points going into the Chase, no. A winner from somewhere in the middle seeds, yes, quite likely. NRF's math bears that out (Thanks, by the way, for that... I was too lazy to check it myself). 10. Is there greater opportunity for manipulation, either by teams or by NASCAR? Yes. Conspiracy theories will be plentful. Mostly from the tin-foil hat crowd, but a few of them might be plausable. ;0 2140. OldSchoolNascarDude1 posted: 01.31.2014 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've had over 24 hours to digest this. The only positive to this change is that I think it will create more individuality for each race. Other than that, there are tons of negatives that I can think of. It will still take most likely success to earn a championship at Homestead, but I'll no longer value the championship like I have before. If 2004 cheapened the title, this really ends any real championship opportunities in the modern era. My question to you all is: Now that points will only be judged on wins, will this create more All-Star race type strategies? Everyone seems to believe this will constitute more aggressive racing/wrecking, but I think this will just make the crew chief strategy more meaningful than ever. Am I wrong? 2141. Cornys posted: 01.31.2014 - 11:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think it's been mentioned before, but after a team/driver is eliminated they return to their old points values as though nothing happened to them. This is the weirdest part of the whole deal. From 29th, to 16th, to 12th, to 8th, back to 29th just because I couldn't make the (barf) final four. :X 2142. DB1995 posted: 01.31.2014 - 11:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Under this years cup points system Trevor Bayne would have been a champion in nationwide last year, at least he won a race. 2143. Zackary Shawn posted: 02.01.2014 - 2:18 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "This is the weirdest part of the whole deal. From 29th, to 16th, to 12th, to 8th, back to 29th just because I couldn't make the (barf) final four. :X" Why on Earth would you drop back to 29th? If you make The Chase you're guaranteed at least 16th. You would just convert back to racing on the 2000 point system while everyone else moves on to a 3000, 4000, and ultimately 5000 point system. 2144. Zackary Shawn posted: 02.01.2014 - 2:21 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm not a NASCAR driver, but if I was and I won Daytona there one only be one thing on my mind...winning Phoenix. There's no way I would coast "coasting" until Chicagoland. I think most real drivers feel this way, too. I think people who are using this as an excuse to hate on the new system are grasping for straws. There are legitimate criticisms that can be made, but I don't think this is one of them. 2145. Sean posted: 02.01.2014 - 4:08 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'd guess F1, V8s, WRC, WTCC, WEC, FIA GT, and DTM are all bigger internationally then NASCAR, although ratings might prove me wrong." The fastest way to judge this might be to look at the Alexa popularity ranks for each sanctioning body's website, ranked by global popularity. I realize these may not be precisely fair comparisons for a variety of reasons (some official sites like IndyCar's, NASCAR's, V8 Supercars's are sanctioning body websites while other sites are individual series websites...for instance Formula 1 has different websites for GP2 and GP3, while NASCAR does not have separate websites for Nationwide and trucks...) Additionally, the Internet does have an American bias which means that American series will appear more popular than they probably are from a global perspective, but I still think if you compare US domestic series to other US domestic series and international series to other international series, it will be a good measure of general popularity. I only included series that had a website among the top 1,000,000 in popularity globally and omitted series sponsored by car manufacturers whose data appeared on car manufacturers' websites (such as Porsche Supercup, where data appeared on the Porsche website), since that is an unreasonable comparison, since the vast majority of references will be to Porsche's cars themselves, not the racing series. I included motorcycle series. Formula 1 - 4801 MotoGP - 13442 NASCAR - 13895 World Rally Championship - 29930 NHRA - 83565 IMSA - 84280 V8 Supercars - 87913 Formula E - 96359 IndyCar - 106844 DTM - 126226 World Superbike Championship - 180346 World Touring Car Championship - 203927 Super GT - 213355 AMA Supercross Championship - 218469 World Endurance Championship - 226150 Stadium SuperTrucks - 256176 SCORE International - 263713 Motocross World Championship - 326190 GP2 Series - 366647 SCCA Pirelli World Challenge - 370662 FIA GT Series - 393933 European Rally Championship - 396099 BTCC - 405466 AMA Pro Road Racing - 439024 Formula Drift - 507964 Global Rallycross Championship - 538246 SCCA Trans-Am - 587168 ADAC GT Masters - 589612 GP3 Series - 605435 European Le Mans Series - 798817 ARCA - 941215 Considering the American bias on the Internet, I was surprised to see neither USAC (between 1,000,000 and 2,000,000) or World of Outlaws (between 3,000,000 and 4,000,000) make the top million, so clearly to make it on this list, a series needs to have at least some sort of national appeal, and needs to transcend a regional audience (with the exception of ARCA, which is just coasting on NASCAR's coattails.) Simply make an adjustment to reflect the US bias on the Internet and lower all the US championships respectively. I would say from this that NASCAR Sprint Cup is definitely the most popular domestic championship in the world. Yes, DTM and V8 Supercars may have more interest outside their home country than NASCAR does, but when you consider that the US is the 3rd most populated country in the world and China and India don't have a GREAT deal of interest in racing, this becomes understandable. As far as international championships, I would say F1, MotoGP, and WRC are definitely more popular globally, but while a number of other world championships have more consistent popularity from country to country, I'm not sure if something like the WTCC could actually be considered more popular than NASCAR, because NASCAR dominates North America, which is close to Europe in popularity, while the other world championships other than F1, MotoGP, and WRC are probably about as niche even in Europe as something like IndyCar is here... I would probably put NASCAR 4th in global popularity. Which isn't to say I think it's 4th in quality, as few of those other series have chosen to 'gimmick it up' to this degree. I was very impressed to see IMSA's skyrocketing popularity considering Grand-Am and ALMS just merged and Formula E's considering they haven't held a race yet. 2146. Sean posted: 02.01.2014 - 4:14 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) My own eponymous site, lousy as it is, is actually more popular than the World of Outlaws site and my own racing site is close. That is flabbergasting to me. This site is at 143327, beating most of the series on that list... But as for the big kahuna in American sports, the NFL's website is at #273 globally. And NASCAR thinks it's close to competing with that or was ever close? 2147. Scott. B posted: 02.01.2014 - 4:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Zachary, my coasting concerns are not about the driver's focus or desire. They're about how to allocate limited resources and testing opportunities from a team management perspective. The new rules skew toward focusing on the Chase races even more than the original Chase format, at the expense of the first 26 races. 2148. MStall41 posted: 02.01.2014 - 11:10 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I'm not a NASCAR driver, but if I was and I won Daytona there one only be one thing on my mind...winning Phoenix. There's no way I would coast "coasting" until Chicagoland. I think most real drivers feel this way, too. I think people who are using this as an excuse to hate on the new system are grasping for straws. There are legitimate criticisms that can be made, but I don't think this is one of them." Excellent point. Agree 100%. Also, David Smith was right on the money with that article. 2149. Sean posted: 02.01.2014 - 12:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If the ratings had gone up in the Chase years, his arguments would be justified, but they didn't. There was no evidence that any of the previous iterations of the Chase made NASCAR more popular that would indicate that this particular iteration of the Chase (even though I actually dislike it less) would increase NASCAR's popularity. And I really don't like "first world problems" arguments. 2150. Sean posted: 02.01.2014 - 12:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'll admit there was a ratings increase from 2004 to 2005 when the Chase 1.0 was a novelty, and I think the same thing might happen here, but it's hard for me to envision that this won't also result in a long-term decline eventually. 2151. Sean posted: 02.01.2014 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) You know, I think most of the problems with the "win and you're in" philosophy might be solved if it was "lead the most laps and you're in" instead. Leading the most laps in a race is what truly indicates relevance for the most part. Sure, there are flukes in that regard too (Michael Waltrip's race at Darlington in 1991) but many fewer, and this would reflect who's actually running strongly in the races (Dale Earnhardt in the 1990 Daytona 500) and not who happens to luck into them (Derrike Cope)... I don't like NASCAR's extreme focus on consistency compared to that of other series and never have, so there's a part of me that actually likes "win and you're in" but "lead the most laps and you're in" would reflect what I want to be rewarded (dominance) without letting flukish winners in for the most part. 2152. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.01.2014 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, David Smith was right on the money with that article. " http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/150/505/f30fd24c56e1bcfc926883d6a51d5a00.gif 2153. The Long Shot posted: 02.01.2014 - 3:26 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) I was considering posting these in a blog post, but I figured more people would see these if I posted them here. Here are the 1975 Winston Cup standings with the new Chase format. (Note: I converted the points to the new format to keep things consistent. I also removed the part-timer limit, since that would eliminate almost every driver from that era.) Actual Standings: 1. Richard Petty: 4783 2. Dave Marcis: 4061 3. James Hylton: 3914 4. Benny Parsons: 3820 5. Richard Childress: 3818 6. Cecil Gordon: 3702 7. Darrell Waltrip: 3462 8. Elmo Langley: 3399 9. Cale Yarborough: 3295 10. Dick Brooks: 3182 11. Walter Ballard: 3151 12. Frank Warren: 3148 13. David Sisco: 3116 14. David Pearson: 3057 15. Buddy Baker: 3050 16. Bruce Hill: 3002 17. Ed Negre: 2982 24. Bobby Allison: 2181 Revised Chase Standings: 1. Dick Brooks: 5036 2. James Hylton: 5035 3. Richard Childress: 5034 4. Richard Petty: 5029 ------------------------------ 5. Cale Yarborough: 2331 6. Benny Parsons: 2313 7. Dave Marcis: 2309 8. Cecil Gordon: 2305 9. Elmo Langley: 2296 10. Buddy Baker: 2275 11. David Sisco: 2260 12. Walter Ballard: 2246 13. Ed Negre: 2236 14. Darrell Waltrip: 2225 15. Bobby Allison: 2225 16. David Pearson: 2213 Eliminated After The Challenger Round: Negre, Ballard, Marcis, Pearson Eliminated After The Contender Round: Sisco, Yarborough, Baker, Allison Eliminated After The Eliminator Round: Parsons, Gordon, Langley, Waltrip This is going to be soooo much fun... 2154. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.01.2014 - 3:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richard Freaking Brooks?!!??!!? Hell, boy, keep them coming! 2155. murb posted: 02.01.2014 - 4:25 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) See, that's another huge problem with this system that I don't think is being talked about enough. People's careers are going to be inflated. Dick Brooks, someone with only one career win, is a Cup champion with this system? We're gonna have some oddball champions with this system for sure, and it's gonna make drivers look like they are better than they really are. Some people look at that like it's a great thing, but I'm the exact opposite. I want to see the very best stock car drivers going at it and going for championships. But now, this system is basically gonna make it seem like just anyone off the street can come in and be a champion. Once again, sure it's gonna be exciting to watch. But I would MUCH rather see two heavyweights go at it instead of seeing someone like Clint Bowyer become a Cup champion only because the system allowed him to. I want to see these drivers be challenged. 2156. TS1420 posted: 02.01.2014 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I wonder what Brainless France's next hair-brained scheme for the chase/championship will be when this current scheme ultimately fails at its goal (Kill the NFL!) in 3-5 years? I think I got it: Turn the Cup Series into The Grand National Conference presented by Coca-Cola and the Nwide Series into The Grand American Conference presented by Pepsi. Then have the top 20 winners (or highest in points to fill out the remaining 20 positions if there is not 20 different winners) from each conference plus two wild card entries from a last chance race & 43rd spot for a fan-vote winner face-off in a 10 race playoff, leading to a final four showdown at the season ending Super Daytona Bowl 500. I don't really mind the elimination rounds or "final four" at Homestead, other than being a huge ripoff of NCAA basketball. The biggest thing I dislike about this new "win and your in" chase is the fact while its improbable, it isn't impossible for somebody like David Ragan or Aric Almirola to pick up a lucky/fluke win, run 20th-30th in points then go on to have a lucky/fluke chase and win the championship. Plus the fact certain teams (*cough* the 48 *cough*) will win a few races then coast until until the chase and even then probably do just good enough to make the final four at Homestead then go for broke. If they wanted to reward winning they should have just kept the qualifying for the chase the same (top ten + 2 wild cards), then tweaked points to something like this: -2nd thru 43rd still gets 42 to 1 points. -1st/winning now gets 84 points. -wins are worth 10 points instead of 3 for chase seeding. 2157. RCRandPenskeGuy posted: 02.01.2014 - 5:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Murb, you're absolutely right. That's my biggest concern with this system. NASCAR implemented it trying to make the championship more competitive, but I'm worried it's going to allow "wild-carders" into the battle (people who usually don't come close to contending for the title). At least the races individually will still be the same, so at least I can look at that and just pay attention to that instead of taking the championship seriously. 2158. David posted: 02.01.2014 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Here are the 1975 Winston Cup standings with the new Chase format. (Note: I converted the points to the new format to keep things consistent. I also removed the part-timer limit, since that would eliminate almost every driver from that era.)" How the heck did you do that so quickly? It usually takes me days to recalculate the points for a season. 2159. The Long Shot posted: 02.01.2014 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1976 Actual Standings: 1. Cale Yarborough: 4644 2. Richard Petty: 4449 3. Benny Parsons: 4304 4. Bobby Allison: 4097 5. Lennie Pond: 3930 6. Dave Marcis: 3875 7. Buddy Baker: 3745 8. Darrell Waltrip: 3505 9. David Pearson: 3483 10. Dick Brooks: 3447 11. Richard Childress: 3428 12. J.D. McDuffie: 3400 13. James Hylton: 3380 14. D.K. Ulrich: 3280 15. Cecil Gordon: 3247 16. Frank Warren: 3240 Revised Chase Standings: 1. Cale Yarborough: 5022 2. Dave Marcis: 5020 3. Richard Petty: 5018 4. Darrell Waltrip: 5004 ------------------------------- 5. Dick Brooks: 2352 6. Benny Parsons: 2326 7. Lennie Pond: 2321 8. Buddy Baker: 2316 9. Bobby Allison: 2300 10. James Hylton: 2289 11. David Pearson: 2284 12. J.D. McDuffie: 2273 13. D.K. Ulrich: 2262 14. Cecil Gordon: 2249 15. Frank Warren: 2223 16. Richard Childress: 2213 Eliminated After The Challenger Round: Hylton, McDuffie, Warren, Childress Eliminated After The Contender Round: Allison, Gordon, Pearson, Pond Eliminated After The Eliminator Round: Baker, Parsons, Brooks, Ulrich 2160. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.01.2014 - 6:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richard Brooks is making a monkey of this. And how about D.K. Ulrich! 2161. Mr X posted: 02.01.2014 - 8:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have a question, once the drivers are eliminated from chase contention after chase races 3, 6, & 9 are each group put back to where they would've been had the chase not existed or are they left in their own four person battle for the remainder of the season? Regardless of how many drivers are in the chase (16 is way too many) or the reasons that they're in it I like the eliminations if it means the top 10/12/16 drivers aren't locked after 26 races. I hope they are put back with the non chasers although this does seem kind of intellectual to the average stick and ball sports fan watching NASCAR or the toddler group running NASCAR, and I apologize if I offended any toddler groups. 2162. Mr X posted: 02.01.2014 - 8:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2151. Sean posted: 02.01.2014 - 12:50 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) You know, I think most of the problems with the "win and you're in" philosophy might be solved if it was "lead the most laps and you're in" instead. Leading the most laps in a race is what truly indicates relevance for the most part. Sure, there are flukes in that regard too (Michael Waltrip's race at Darlington in 1991) but many fewer, and this would reflect who's actually running strongly in the races (Dale Earnhardt in the 1990 Daytona 500) and not who happens to luck into them (Derrike Cope)... I don't like NASCAR's extreme focus on consistency compared to that of other series and never have, so there's a part of me that actually likes "win and you're in" but "lead the most laps and you're in" would reflect what I want to be rewarded (dominance) without letting flukish winners in for the most part. Nice idea, but not likely given NASCAR's current higher ups. 2163. The Long Shot posted: 02.01.2014 - 8:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "How the heck did you do that so quickly? It usually takes me days to recalculate the points for a season." Oh, no: I didn't convert the entire season's points. What I did was take what the Chase fields would look like under the old system, then re-calculated the points for the final 10 races so that the system would fit better. 2164. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 02.01.2014 - 9:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I have a question, once the drivers are eliminated from chase contention after chase races 3, 6, & 9 are each group put back to where they would've been had the chase not existed or are they left in their own four person battle for the remainder of the season? Regardless of how many drivers are in the chase (16 is way too many) or the reasons that they're in it I like the eliminations if it means the top 10/12/16 drivers aren't locked after 26 races. I hope they are put back with the non chasers although this does seem kind of intellectual to the average stick and ball sports fan watching NASCAR or the toddler group running NASCAR, and I apologize if I offended any toddler groups." They're locked in the top 16, but any driver eliminated can finish as high as 5th. When they aren't eligible to win the championship, they revert to the points they started the Chase with(2000 + 3 pts/win) plus the points they accumulate throughout the Chase. Very simple. No math needed. 2165. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.02.2014 - 8:48 am Rate this comment: (1) (0) Why I love RR: the discussions are rational. 2166. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.02.2014 - 1:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So, who else is joining me in not watching the Smoke-a-Bowl? I will check out the scores occasionally on the computer, but the broadcast sucks. By the way, in my eyes Troy Aikman and Tony Siragusa are the two most disgusting announcers alive, so my opinion doesn't can't since I'm a Redskins fan :P 2167. 18fan posted: 02.02.2014 - 2:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NRF, I definitely agree on Siragusa. I don't "hate" many announcers but Siragusa is definitely one of those that I hate. 2168. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.02.2014 - 2:49 pm Rate this comment: (2) (1) Super Sunday, The Big Game. A lot riding on it. If Peyton wins, then he is officially the best QB ever according to the media. Cause apparently Joe Montana never existed. Nor did Bart Starr, Johnny U, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Roger Staubach, Tom Brady, or Terry Bradshaw. Somebody pass me the Donny Lia bucket. This will be Peyton's 23rd playoff game, same number that Joe Cool played. Peyton, despite his unrivaled regular season brilliance is 11-11 (.500) in the playoffs. But that only tells part of the story. Of his 22 previous playoff games, 2 were played at neutral sites for the Super Bowl, for which he is 1-1. He has an appalling 8-5 home record, and an understandable 2-5 road record. Of his 13 playoff appearances, 8 times he lost the first playoff game. 5 of those were at home, 4 of those 5 came after a 1st round bye meaning they were one of the two best teams in the AFC. And then there is this: In games his teams was favored to win they are 9-8. Denver is favored tonight, so if they lose, he will only be .500 in 18 games he was favored. Also, what does it say that you have been favored in EIGHTEEN playoff games and only have one or two rings depending on tonight? In games they weren't favored, he is 2-4. He was favored in every home game as well as both Super Bowls (Denver is favored tonight too), and not favored at all but one road game, the infamous '08 Wild Card game when the 8-8 Chargers beat the 12-4 Colts. Montana is likewise 2-5 on the road in the playoffs. The similarities end there. He is 16-7 overall (roughly .700). He was 10-2 at home. And that comes with a bit of an asterisk. In the '90 NFC Title game, San Fran was leading the Giants 13-9 at Candlestick when Montana got leveled by Leonard Marshall in a legal hit that took Joe out of action for the next two years that would get a $75,000 fine nowadays. It is impossible to say how those final 10 minutes would have gone with Joe, but he always came through at home when things were tight. His other home loss was in '87 when the heavily favored Niners got soundly beaten by Minnesota as Joe looked pretty bad. For the record, Joe also got knocked out of two other playoff games. Once inthe Meadowlands when they were getting shellacked and his recently surgically repaired back got reinjured, and in Buffalo while playing for KC as the Bills easily won their 4th straight AFC title. Obviously he also had the 4 neutral site Super Bowls, all wins. As for the spread, he was 14-3 in games where they were favored. One of the losses was the aforementioned '90 game against the Giants. One was the also previously mentioned loss at home to the underdog Vikes. And the third was a playoff game in the Meadowlands against the Giants (not the one he got knocked out of) where they were curiously favored. It should also be noted they were favored on the road in the '88 NFC title game at Soldier Field as they were on fire after a rough start to the season, forcing them to go on the road. He was only favored on the road twice. Also of note, the Cowboys were favored in Candlestick in the famous '81 NFC title game. I'm sure if they had it over they would have favored San Fran. But at the time "Joe Montana", "Bill Walsh", and "The West Coast Offense" were all unproven novelties while "Tom Landy", "Tom Landry's Fedora", "The Doomsday Defense", and "America's Team" were well know and proven despite aging. But San Fran was much better as evidenced by their 6 turnovers (3 Montana picks) yet they still won. 2169. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.02.2014 - 2:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meant to mention Joe only had one home one and done ('87), and 4 total, while Peyton has 8, 5 at home. 2170. The Long Shot posted: 02.02.2014 - 3:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1977 Actual Standings: 1. Cale Yarborough: 5000 2. Richard Petty: 4614 3. Benny Parsons: 4570 4. Darrell Waltrip: 4498 5. Buddy Baker: 3961 6. Dick Brooks: 3742 7. James Hylton: 3476 8. Bobby Allison: 3467 9. Richard Childress: 3463 10. Cecil Gordon: 3294 11. Buddy Arrington: 3247 12. J.D. McDuffie: 3236 13. David Pearson: 3227 14. Skip Manning: 3120 15. D.K. Ulrich: 2901 16. Frank Warren: 2876 24. Donnie Allison: 1970 Revised Chase Standings: 1. Cale Yarborough: 5042 2. Buddy Baker: 5040 3. Benny Parsons: 5033 4. Darrell Waltrip: 5016 --------------------------------- 5. Richard Petty: 2328 6. James Hylton: 2311 7. Richard Childress: 2306 8. Dick Brooks: 2299 9. Buddy Arrington: 2296 10. Bobby Allison: 2286 11. J.D. McDuffie: 2273 12. David Pearson: 2273 13. Skip Manning: 2235 14. D.K. Ulrich: 2232 15. Cecil Gordon: 2209 16. Donnie Allison: 2204 Eliminated After The Challenger Round: Manning, Gordon, B. Allison, D. Allison Eliminated After The Contender Round: Pearson, Petty, McDuffie, Ulrich Eliminated After The Eliminator Round: Arrington, Brooks, Hylton, Childress 2171. Baker posted: 02.02.2014 - 3:41 pm Rate this comment: (4) (0) Have not been around in a long time and have not cared to spend time worrying about NASCAR. With the news of the sport getting even more bogus with the crap chase rules I need some convincing to even watch the Daytona 500 this year. I haven't watched a singe race since Richmond last year but I did want to watch some of the big events this year. Please tell me why I should bother? How long now before they start throwing caution flags at the 1/4 mark and eliminating 5 drivers? 1/2 then dumping 5 more and then with 20 to go throwing a caution and putting all remaining cars on lead lap? How long before the idiots in charge start manufacturing ever single race? 2172. joshua761312006 posted: 02.02.2014 - 5:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Since Nascar.com does not want hear our comments about the new format because they took the comments page down. I will tell you there are so many problems with the new format and the more I think about the more problems I find example if a person is second in points one point behind the leader at Richmond Race 26 and there are 15 different winners but the first two driver are winless so the person that is in first gets in the chase while the other one does not because that driver is winless absolute bs if you ask me. This format is wrong and stupid. Nascar has so many options to grow their sport and they pick this absolutely crazy. In fact I will not watch Daytona this year. 2173. Jim Davis posted: 02.02.2014 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I will tell you there are so many problems with the new format and the more I think about the more problems I find example if a person is second in points one point behind the leader at Richmond Race 26 and there are 15 different winners but the first two driver are winless so the person that is in first gets in the chase while the other one does not because that driver is winless absolute bs if you ask me." Sure. And in the traditional Latford point system a driver could win 35 races and still be tied for the lead heading into Homestead. I don't like the new chase format. There is much that can be criticized about it. But coming up with wildly improbable scenarios or retroactively applying it to past seasons are not effective criticisms. Wildly improbable scenarios are just that - wildly improbable. And past seasons would have been raced entirely differently and with entirely different results if a different point system were in effect. I think the hysteria needs to be toned down. 2174. Cornys posted: 02.02.2014 - 5:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Why on Earth would you drop back to 29th? If you make The Chase you're guaranteed at least 16th. You would just convert back to racing on the 2000 point system while everyone else moves on to a 3000, 4000, and ultimately 5000 point system." That wasn't very clear. Does anybody actually think that this new system is harder to understand? I do. 2175. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.02.2014 - 5:45 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sure. And in the traditional Latford point system a driver could win 35 races and still be tied for the lead heading into Homestead." You must mean the points system used from 1975 to 2003, because afterwards the Chase reset and/or the extra points for winning would undo that, which yes is redonculous. 2176. SpeedWorld97 posted: 02.02.2014 - 6:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Have not been around in a long time and have not cared to spend time worrying about NASCAR. With the news of the sport getting even more bogus with the crap chase rules I need some convincing to even watch the Daytona 500 this year. I haven't watched a singe race since Richmond last year but I did want to watch some of the big events this year. Please tell me why I should bother? How long now before they start throwing caution flags at the 1/4 mark and eliminating 5 drivers? 1/2 then dumping 5 more and then with 20 to go throwing a caution and putting all remaining cars on lead lap? How long before the idiots in charge start manufacturing ever single race?" I don't blame you one bit. Being a NASCAR fan these past few months has been really tough, and I'm seriously considering avoiding the last ten races this year because deep down I know it's all manufactured and fake. Most of my focus this year will be on sports car racing (IMSA), IndyCar, and F1. At least IndyCar produces championships that are legitimate and exciting. It's just too bad their season is only 6 months this year and the series hardly gets any media attention. But that's a whole different story... "Since Nascar.com does not want hear our comments about the new format because they took the comments page down." Wait...NASCAR is well aware that their entire fanbase hates the new chase, and their solution is to turn their backs against them and ignore them? I don't think I've ever seen a series where sponsors take priority over the fans. Not the smartest idea when the fans are the people who attend the races, buy merchandise, watch the races on TV, etc. NASCAR is really shooting themselves in the foot this time... 2177. 18fan posted: 02.02.2014 - 6:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I won't stop watching NASCAR because I have always watched for the individual races more than the championship. 2178. The Long Shot posted: 02.02.2014 - 7:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Peyton is single-handedly losing this game for Denver. 2179. DB1995 posted: 02.02.2014 - 7:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Come on Peyton, come on 2180. DB1995 posted: 02.02.2014 - 7:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) another turn over... 2181. TS1420 posted: 02.02.2014 - 7:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Game over. 2182. murb posted: 02.02.2014 - 7:55 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) As a Broncos fan watching this game, I now know what it's like to be a Jeff Gordon fan. Seriously though, what a horrid first half. I can only hope that Peyton and that O-Line can get their heads on straight for the second half. 2183. DB1995 posted: 02.02.2014 - 8:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Game over. 2184. TS1420 posted: 02.02.2014 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Bruno did a good half-time show. Too bad The Red Hot Chili Peppers were wasted on a guest appearance instead of getting their own half-time. ...And the final nail in the coffin. Congrats Seahawks. 2185. murb posted: 02.02.2014 - 8:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, congrats to all the DIEHARD Seahawks fans (not the bandwagon "12th Man" fans who trash other fans). What a blowout. 2186. The Long Shot posted: 02.02.2014 - 8:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Percy! 2187. The Long Shot posted: 02.02.2014 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sherman's hurt. If you listen closely, you can hear the entire NFL fanbase (sans Seattle) emitting a gigantic cheer. 2188. TS1420 posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This has got to be one of the top 5 worst Super Bowls ever. Just call the game and get this farce over with. Like I said earlier in this same thread, the AFC is a damn joke and the NFC Championship Game would be the real Super Bowl. 2189. murb posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) lol, It's just a joke now. 2190. BluesTravelerFan posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I feel so sorry for you murb. I was really hoping Denver would win this, because I have someone I know that really wants to see them do it, and I can't stand Seattle. Such Is life. 2191. TS1420 posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) At this rate the way things have gone for teams/drivers I have rooted for lately. I might as well skip the Daytona 500. It will probably be a replay of the 2005 Daytona 500 (Smoke leading most the damn race only to get shuffled out of the lead by an ungrateful drafting partner while a f'ing Hendrick stooge cruises to Victory Lane) 2192. murb posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I feel so sorry for you murb." haha, Thanks. I'm honestly not as upset about them losing as I am about having to listen to a lot of the Seahawks fans where I live rub it in. I'm in Idaho so we basically have a lot of the bandwagon Seahawk fans, and large portion of them are classless tools who are gonna ride this one for a long time (to be fair though, there are a lot of bandwagon Bronco fans here too that are just fans because of Peyton, but at least they seem to be respectable individuals). So yeah, I'm not really surprised or that upset about the Broncos losing this one since the NFC was obviously ions better than the AFC this year. I just wish they could have at least competed for it instead of getting completely embarrassed like this. 2193. 18fan posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I think it's funny that Peyton set a Super Bowl record for completions in a game where his team is losing by 35 points. And most of his completions have been insignificant. 2194. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:39 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) 43-8 Seattle leading. Thank god i like auto racing and not the NFL. This game was hyped for 4 hours and this is the result? hehe. I think me and DSFF should pat ourselves on the back alittle bit here, Peyton Mannings carrer is a failure. And he is going too have a LOSING playoff record. 2195. JG24FanForever posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Choke. 2196. 18fan posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Even Kyle Busch doesn't choke nearly this bad under pressure. And Kyle is Broncos fan too. 2197. murb posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Meanwhile, Danica dresses up as a man in the new GoDaddy commercial. 2198. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.02.2014 - 9:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now if you'll excuse me, i'm going too turnon BSPN and have a good laugh. 2199. SpeedWorld97 posted: 02.02.2014 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Thank god i like auto racing and not the NFL. This game was hyped for 4 hours and this is the result? hehe." ESPN has been hyping the Super Bowl for the past two weeks! I'm glad it blew up in their face. lol 2200. murb posted: 02.02.2014 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh well. Seahawks played a great game, and the Broncos played a pathetic game. Congrats to all the true Seahawks fans out there. 2201. The Long Shot posted: 02.02.2014 - 10:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While I'm not a huge Seahawks fan, they were my preseason Super Bowl picks, and I'm happy that they won. Russell Wilson may be the most humble player in the league, so if anyone deserves this, it's him. 2202. Jarrett88fan posted: 02.02.2014 - 10:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was fitting Fox Sports put up the graphic on the most recent halftime shutout near the end of the first half. Well, we were due for blowout like Baltimore-New York in February 2001. Honestly, the fact that a lineman won Super Bowl MVP was satisfying. 2203. joey2448 posted: 02.03.2014 - 2:16 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Honestly, I thought it was a great game to watch, even as a blowout. My loyalties were split right down the middle as far as who I wanted to see win (I had picked Denver...oops), so I would have been happy to see either team win it. But I don't know what you guys are talking about this being a terrible game and it blowing up in the NFL's face after two weeks of hype. Obviously, the Broncos were shaken right from the start with the missed snap by Manning -- resulting in a safety -- and Manning just simply had a bad game, but I still very much enjoyed the event. And the halftime show was really good too, surprisingly. I'm not a fan of Bruno Mars, so my expectations were low, but I absolutely love the Chili Peppers. The drum intro by Bruno was fantastic, and his songs were energetic and snappy, and when the RHCP entered, it just made the performance 10 times better! Whoo! 2204. joey2448 posted: 02.03.2014 - 2:22 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Oh yeah, and how did Seattle linebacker Malcolm Smith get Super Bowl MVP honors??? I mean, no disrespect, he certainly had a great play there near the end of the first half (the INT return touchdown), but surely I thought it would go to either Russell Wilson or Percy Harvin (who had a great game after all the injury problems). 2205. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.03.2014 - 4:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) "Summary: either SF, CAR, or SEA will represent the NFC in the Super Bowl. Regardless of which team represents the AFC, the NFC will win in a big-time rout unless somehow PHI plays DEN, which I seriously doubt with two of the biggest choke artists in the history of professional sports QBing those teams. " Where's my dollar? 2206. Daniel posted: 02.03.2014 - 12:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) One addition to the ARCA entry list: -#4 Dylan Kwasniewski (Turner-Scott Motorsports) 42 cars entered in the race as of now. 2207. The Long Shot posted: 02.03.2014 - 2:59 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Dylan Kwasniewski officially will run full-time in Nationwide next year. While I know it's way too early to say anything definite about him, am I the only one who believes that he will be a gigantic bust? I mean, he's being rushed up through the ranks faster than Larson was (Larson at least got some time in Trucks, if only for a few races), and from all that I've heard, he possesses a huge ego. Maybe I'm wrong (and I hope that I am), but he just sounds like NASCAR's version of Ryan Leaf. 2208. murb posted: 02.03.2014 - 3:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Kwasniewski can eventually land with another team that isn't Turner (which seems to be having massive financial and personnel problems right now), I think he'll be okay. He reminds me of Kurt Busch when he first came in. West coast kid that no one really knows about, big ego, etc. But yeah, I think he needs to ditch Turner, which just seems to be a sinking ship at this point. 2209. Daniel posted: 02.03.2014 - 3:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 43rd car entered for the ARCA race: -#11 Clay Rogers (Fast Track Racing) Todd Parrott has signed with Tommy Baldwin Racing and it's looking like Reed Sorenson will drive their #36. 2210. MStall41 posted: 02.03.2014 - 5:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Seems that I was right about Mr. Kwasniewski... :) 2211. An Aussie Commentator posted: 02.03.2014 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And In Truck News, John Hunter Nemechek will be running the 10 events that NASCAR allow 16-year-old's to race at while his father Joe will be running the other 12. 2212. jabber1990 posted: 02.03.2014 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "And In Truck News, John Hunter Nemechek will be running the 10 events that NASCAR allow 16-year-old's to race at while his father Joe will be running the other 12. " which 10 are they? and I assume they are sharing a ride? 2213. Daniel posted: 02.03.2014 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Both Martinsville races, Dover, Iowa, Eldora, Bristol, Canadian Tire Motorsports Park, New Hampshire, and Phoenix. They're only allowed to run tracks 1 mile long or less and road courses. I'm not sure what the 10th track is, but I'm guessing it's Gateway. 2214. jabber1990 posted: 02.03.2014 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't know that 16 year olds were allowed to run Mosport, learn something new every day! 2215. Zackary Shawn posted: 02.03.2014 - 10:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't hate the new Chase, but the more I think about the more I really dislike the points being reset to even for the final race. If NASCAR really wanted to make it all about winning, then I think they should have seeded them according to number of season wins for the final and then have them race with the regular points system still applying. For example, the final four would have been seeded like so... 1. Jimmie Johnson...5006 2. Kevin Harvick...5004 3. Jeff Gordon...5001 4. Dale Earnhardt Jr....5000 And the conclusion would have been... 1. Dale Earnhardt Jr....5042 2. Jimmie Johnson...5041 3. Kevin Harvick...5039 4. Jeff Gordon....5034 Still wouldn't have satisfied many people and Jr. still would have won without a win, but at least under this system that is supposedly "all about winning" all of a driver's previous wins from both the regular season and The Chase would still have some relevancy in determining the final outcome. It would also probably discourage "coasting" which I don't think will be a problem, but apparently a lot of people do. Also, NASCAR HAS to change the venue of the final race on a somewhat regular basis. I really like Homestead-Miami Speedway, but one track cannot be allowed to become that important. 2216. TS1420 posted: 02.03.2014 - 11:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, NASCAR HAS to change the venue of the final race on a somewhat regular basis. I really like Homestead-Miami Speedway, but one track cannot be allowed to become that important." I agree. The final should be rotated to a different track every season. And at least half the chase venues should be changed every 2-4 seasons. 2217. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.04.2014 - 11:36 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Also, NASCAR HAS to change the venue of the final race on a somewhat regular basis. I really like Homestead-Miami Speedway, but one track cannot be allowed to become that important." I'm fine with Homestead being the season finale but NASCAR should create a rotation of tracks too start the Chase. I don't know, the Brickyard maybe? Bristol? A 3rd road course? There are possibilities out there. 2218. Daniel posted: 02.04.2014 - 11:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tommy Baldwin Racing has signed Reed Sorenson to drive the #36 for the full season. 2219. We need more Onion posted: 02.04.2014 - 1:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It will never ever happen, but a night road course race would be the best to finish off a season. But it'd cost a shitload and won't entertain casual "fans". 2220. Daniel posted: 02.04.2014 - 1:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A couple of more cars entered for the ARCA race: -#17 TBA (Roulo Brothers Racing) -#72 Austin Wayne Self (Cunningham Motorsports) 2221. MStall41 posted: 02.04.2014 - 2:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) A night race at Watkins Glen would be orgasmic 2222. DB1995 posted: 02.04.2014 - 4:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jabber1990, Chase Elliott was only 17 and he won the race there last year 2223. Eric posted: 02.04.2014 - 5:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) While I agree that the final race of the season needs to be rotated each year, I think not every track should have a chance for a race of the final race of the year. The problem is when the final race happens. The 3rd Sunday in November isn't ideal for NASCAR to race in some parts of the United States. The fact is places like MIS and New Hampshire shouldn't have a cup race in the 3rd Sunday of November because an average high temperature is around 50 degrees on a good day and a low in the 30's on a good day. 2224. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.04.2014 - 5:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "A night race at Watkins Glen would be orgasmic" A night race at ANY road course would be awsome. Sebring is awsome under the lights when the 12 hour race happens. 2225. Eric posted: 02.04.2014 - 8:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It is official that none of the 2 Swann Racing cup teams will start and park this year. They have SMS Audio line as sponsor for both of their cars. 2226. Ryan posted: 02.04.2014 - 9:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 50 Cent will be at Daytona again this year for SMS Audio, his electronics company 2227. jabber1990 posted: 02.04.2014 - 10:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) wow, the cup Field is getting healthier! maybe this 16-car field will actually be interesting 2228. Eric posted: 02.04.2014 - 10:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Here is my predictions for each full time cup organization: Swann Racing: I call them the busiest cup team during the off Season. This is an organization that has an owner that is really trying to make them better. Their moves isn't going to going to make any of their 2 cup teams in the chase this year, but I wouldn't be shocked if at least one of their two teams makes it in the top 25 depending on a few factors including not being in a lot of wrecks. The big problems is how good is the crew of the teams, 2 rookie drivers, Toyota Engines had problems last and 1 start up team. Front Row Racing: I don't see them making the chase and one of their teams might make the top 25. Furniture Row Racing: This is a team that might make the chase. The only problem is the driver since they have a better pit crew this year. Truex has problems closing races to win when he has a great car. Tommy Baldwin Racing: they are not a threat anywhere and could be around 35th in points. Circle spot: top 35 in points is the best they could do Germain Racing: Going from ford to Chevy could help them based on how the Fords were last year. This is a top 25 team at best with a driver that you can't build on going into the chase. JTG-Daugherty Racing: A younger driver in A.J. Allmendinger, but I don't like how the organization is run. I think they can be a threat at road courses and plate tracks, but that is it. Their only chance to make the chase is by winning on a plate track, or a road course. They could finish in the top 30. Bk Racing: They got younger drivers, but the equipment isn't there. The organization also has had problems paying drivers in the past. They may finish in the top 30. Harry Scott Jr.: His team Might finish in the top 30 in points. There is a lot of questions marks due to what is happening with Turner Scott Motorsports because of sponsor problems. The cup team being a single car team with Justin Allgaier for most races is going to be at huge disadvantage. Richard Petty Motorsports: They could get a spot in the chase if Ambrose wins on a road course. This organization isn't good enough to get a top in points and don't have the drivers either for that. I think this is a make or break year for Ambrose. If he's doesn't win on a road course and doesn't get better on ovals, he could be gone. Ganassi Racing: Team might have a driver in the chase in Jamie Mcmurray. I don't see him finishing in the top 10 in points there. The only question with Jamie is he has a new crew chief. Jamie is an inconsistent driver. He is a driver you can't rule out for a win though. I think Kyle Larson is a year away from being a chase threat. I think Kyle could win the rookie of the year over Austin Dillon with being around 20 in points. RCR: I only see Newman making the chase. This organization is going through a rebuilding year. The big question is the leadership of the organization since Jeff Burton is gone. Ryan Newman never has been a leader to me. Ryan Newman is an upgrade from an aging Jeff Burton. He might pull of a win. Paul Menard is only a top 20 cup driver to me and if his didn't sponsor him he would have been gone by now from RCR. Austin Dillon is a big downgrade from Kevin Harvick since Kevin is still in his prime. Austin is going to finish anywhere from 25th to 21st in points. Stewart-Haas: Only 2 out 4 drivers will make the chase. This is a make or break year for Danica and I really don't see much improvement in her this season despite having Mark Martin helping her. I don't have Stewart making the chase because he is only going to Daytona at 65 percent and that is Tony's own words. That mean he's going to struggle plus having a new crew chief. Tony Also is on his downside of his career before his injury. Kevin is going to be a threat in the chase. Kurt Busch is also is going to make the chase. He could finish in the top 10 in points. Roush: I see Carl making the chase and Ricky might have a chance to also. Carl is still in his prime, but the question is the equipment. I see an improvement out of Stenhouse this year. I don't see Biffle making the chase and I wouldn't be shocked if this is final year with Roush. The fact is Greg had down year last season and now he's 44 years old. MWR: I see Clint going to the chase, but the organization is taking a step back. Brian Vickers is a big question mark to me. People talk about Bayne's health, but Vickers isn't exactly great either. Vickers having his 2nd blood clot last year isn't a good sign from someone that had one in 2010. Penske: I see both driver making the chase and I think both could be threats in the chase if the equipment is there for Ford. Joey shocked us last year and there is no reason he can't do it again. JGR: All three drivers should be in the chase and are in their primes. Matt was a young 41 last year and I don't see any change in that. Kyle to me is the bigger threat in the chase because the elimination actually helps him if he does well at Chicagoland, Dover and Loudon because he stinks at Kansas. Denny is going to finish in the top 10 in points. HMS: All 4 drivers should make the chase. Jeff Gordon to me isn't a threat to win the chase, but finishing in the top 5 isn't out of question. I wouldn't be shocked if Jeff announces next year will be his last year as a full time cup driver. Kasey could finish anyway from top 16 to top 5 in points. Dale Jr. is going to make the chase, but the question is how much his crew chief leaving the team is going to affect them down the stretch. Jimmie is a championship threat, but what happens to them if Rick Hendrick announces Dale Jr's Crew chief in the chase for 2015? I am saying that because if Ron Malec becomes Dale Jr.'s crew chief. 2229. David posted: 02.05.2014 - 9:32 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ray Evernham is leaving ESPN...to rejoin Hendrick Motorsports as a consultant in the competition department. 2230. Scott B posted: 02.05.2014 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Richard Petty Motorsports: They could get a spot in the chase if Ambrose wins on a road course. This organization isn't good enough to get a top in points and don't have the drivers either for that. I think this is a make or break year for Ambrose. If he's doesn't win on a road course and doesn't get better on ovals, he could be gone." I think that there's about a 90% chance this is the last year for Ambrose with Petty. To get re-signed, he'd have to have a real breakout season. With the field up to 16, Almirola has an outside shot at the Chase. He and the #43 crew need to continue to make slow, steady progress and not have a backslide year. Almirola's just entering his prime driving years, but with all the young talent coming in he needs to prove himself within the next two or three seasons or he'll be lose his window of opportunity. 2231. The Long Shot posted: 02.05.2014 - 12:17 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Morgan Shepherd will attempt to make the Daytona 500, driving the #93 Toyota. The team will not be supported by BK Racing, however. This sounds very similar to 2007, when another 72 year-old by the names of James Hylton attempted the 500 in a former RCR car (and nearly qualified, at that). Pulling for Morgan to make the race! 2232. The Long Shot posted: 02.05.2014 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Spent most of the morning working on this. Enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/racingreference 2233. Ryan posted: 02.05.2014 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) By my count it looks like at least 49 cars will attempt to make the Daytona 500 2234. Ryan posted: 02.05.2014 - 12:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Morgan Shepherd to run the #93 in an attempt to make the Daytona 500. Collaboration between BK racing and MacDonald Motorsports 2235. The Long Shot posted: 02.05.2014 - 12:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Preliminary Daytona Entry Lists Cup (50 cars): 1-Jamie McMurray 2-Brad Keselowski 3-Austin Dillon 4-Kevin Harvick 5-Kasey Kahne 7-Michael Annett 9-Marcos Ambrose 10-Danica Patrick 11-Denny Hamlin 13-Casey Mears 14-Tony Stewart 15-Clint Bowyer 16-Greg Biffle 17-Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 18-Kyle Busch 20-Matt Kenseth 21-Trevor Bayne 22-Joey Logano 23-Alex Bowman 24-Jeff Gordon 26-Cole Whitt 27-Paul Menard 30-Parker Kligerman 31-Ryan Newman 32-Terry Labonte 33-Brian Scott 34-David Ragan 35-Eric McClure 36-Reed Sorenson 38-David Gilliland 40-Landon Cassill 41-Kurt Busch 42-Kyle Larson 43-Aric Almirola 47-A.J. Allmendinger 48-Jimmie Johnson 51-Justin Allgaier 52-Bobby Labonte 55-Brian Vickers 66-Michael Waltrip 77-Dave Blaney 78-Martin Truex Jr. 83-Ryan Truex 87-Joe Nemechek 88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. 92-Brian Keselowski 93-Morgan Shepherd 95-Michael McDowell 98-Josh Wise 99-Carl Edwards Nationwide (43 cars): 01-Landon Cassill 2-Brian Scott 3-Ty Dillon 4-Jeffrey Earnhardt 5-Kevin Harvick 6-Trevor Bayne 7-Regan Smith 9-Chase Elliott 10-Jeff Green 11-Elliott Sadler 13-Carl Long 14-Eric McClure 16-Ryan Reed 17-Tanner Berryhill 19-Mike Bliss 20-Matt Kenseth 22-Brad Keselowski 23-Robert Richardson 24-Harrison Rhodes 28-Mike Wallace 31-Dylan Kwasniewski 32-Kyle Larson 33-Tony Stewart 37-Matt DiBenedetto 39-Ryan Sieg 43-Dakota Armstrong 44-Blake Koch 51-Jeremy Clements 52-Joey Gase 54-Kyle Busch 55-Jamie Dick 60-Chris Buescher 62-Brendan Gaughan 67-Tommy Joe Martins 74-Mike Harmon 76-Willie Allen 85-Bobby Gerhart 87-Joe Nemechek 88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. 89-Morgan Shepherd 93-Matt Carter 98-David Ragan 99-James Buescher Truck (32 trucks): 02-Tyler Young 07-Michel Disdier 08-Jimmy Weller III 4-Jeb Burton 5-John Wes Townley 7-Brian Ickler 8-Joe Nemechek 9-Nelson Piquet Jr. 10-Jennifer Jo Cobb 13-Ross Chastain 17-Timothy Peters 19-Brad Keselowski 20-Parker Kligerman 21-Joey Coulter 24-Brennan Newberry 28-Ryan Ellis 29-Ryan Blaney 31-Ben Kennedy 32-Tayler Malsam 34-Ron Hornaday Jr. 35-Mason Mingus 39-Ryan Sieg 45-Nate Monteith 51-Kyle Busch 54-Darrell Wallace Jr. 57-Norm Benning 63-Justin Jennings 77-German Quiroga 84-Chris Fontaine 88-Matt Crafton 98-Johnny Sauter 99-Bryan Silas 2236. We need more Onion posted: 02.05.2014 - 2:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "29-Ryan Blaney 31-Ben Kennedy" I'm really going to miss a certain truck from between those 2 :( 2237. Daniel posted: 02.05.2014 - 3:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Could you please provide a link to those entry lists? Disappointing that, if nothing changes, there will be short field for the truck race at Daytona. 2238. joey2448 posted: 02.05.2014 - 4:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The fact is places like MIS and New Hampshire shouldn't have a cup race in the 3rd Sunday of November because an average high temperature is around 50 degrees on a good day and a low in the 30's on a good day." What's wrong with 50 degrees? I mean, they just had a Super Bowl in that weather...I think what you meant was that the temperature could creep down towards the 20's and teens if a race was held in NH in November, and that would be a concern, although the biggest concern would be the chance of snow wiping out a race. In fact, did any of you see those pictures that surfaced of the Talladega banking under a layer of snow? Crazy! 2239. The Long Shot posted: 02.05.2014 - 5:01 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Could you please provide a link to those entry lists?" Whoops, I shouldn't have used the word "preliminary". Nothing has been released yet. These were merely speculations on my part. More on the new RR channel created earlier today: for anyone who wishes to become a channel "manager" (that is, have the ability to upload videos and do other things with the channel), here's how you do it. Post your YouTube channel in the comments section, and I will send you a private message from the RR channel. The message will contain the e-mail address and password to the Gmail account. My message will then instruct you on what to do after that. I really hope that we can get a lot of people interested in uploading videos on the new channel, whether it be individual monologues or group collaborations. I look forward to hearing ideas for such videos in the comments over the coming days. Who knows? Perhaps there will be stuff already being uploaded by the time Speedweeks rolls around. 2240. murb posted: 02.05.2014 - 5:25 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Sounds cool Long Shot. My YouTube is "docripoff19" (I subscribed to the RR channel already). I don't have any ideas for videos at the moment, but I'm definitely interested in being a part of a collab if that happens at some point down the line. 2241. David posted: 02.05.2014 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree with the above. 2242. David posted: 02.05.2014 - 9:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) My channel, by the way, is "HighWideandHandsome". I subscribed. 2243. Sean posted: 02.06.2014 - 3:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Scott Speed and Tanner Foust were just announced as Andretti Autosport's Global RallyCross drivers for the full season in a brand new Volkswagen entry, so it looks like Speed's NASCAR career is over... Alex Tagliani was just announced to a full season in the NASCAR Canadian Tire Series along with his full season in the United SportsCar Championship, so it looks like his IndyCar career is over (except I expect him to do one-offs in the Indy 500 now and then.) Jarrett Andretti just landed a full-season USAC Sprint/Silver Crown ride, so I'm now expecting we'll see him in Cup in a few years. Bobby Rahal's team finally officially landed the National Guard sponsorship for Graham, which means Graham's current sponsors can move to the second car and Bobby can pay a driver instead of getting a ride-buyer... This will probably be Oriol Servia but Conor Daly has emerged as a dark horse. 2244. Scott B posted: 02.06.2014 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JJ Yeley is saying he has a Cup deal lined up for 2014 and it will be announced soon. Maybe the #35 or #32 after Daytona? The #78 if Joe Nemechek wants to put someone else in that seat for some races? Is anything else open that we know of? 2245. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 02.06.2014 - 4:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Is anything else open that we know of?" The only other thing I can think of is running some races in the #33. Cassill is running the full N'wide schedule so maybe he'll fill in whenever the Cup and N'wide are at different tracks. 2246. Daniel posted: 02.06.2014 - 4:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Probably the #44 of Xxxtreme Motorsports. On their twitter page, they've said they have a driver signed and are waiting to close on a sponsorship deal before making the announcement. 2247. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.06.2014 - 5:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jarrett Andretti just landed a full-season USAC Sprint/Silver Crown ride, so I'm now expecting we'll see him in Cup in a few years." Don't you mean IndyCar? 2248. Sean posted: 02.06.2014 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) No, I definitely don't. USAC has not been a good feeder series for IndyCar since the '70s when USAC banned rear-engine cars and removed dirt tracks from the schedule. USAC drivers do not adapt to formula cars well. Even in the IRL which was ostensibly designed for USAC drivers, Tony Stewart and Billy Boat were the only drivers who managed to win (Stewart proved to be a transcendent talent, while Boat had Indy Lights experience) and literally every other driver who was winning was a formula-style road racer... As Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Ryan Newman, and Kasey Kahne proved in NASCAR, USAC is much better preparation for NASCAR today than for IndyCar. The IRLers blamed CART and its teams for closing the grassroots ladder leading IndyCar to be dominated by foreign road racers, but they weren't correct, as USAC closed that ladder itself before CART was even formed. Yes, IndyCar has two legacy drivers (Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal) and a possible third coming (Conor Daly), but in general NASCAR is where the relatives of famous open-wheel drivers have eventually gone lately: Christian Fittipaldi, Casey Mears, John Andretti (yes, I know they all came from IndyCar), Nelson Piquet, Jr., with intermittent rumors about Bruno Senna... 2249. Sean posted: 02.06.2014 - 6:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Having said that, it's always possible that if Jarett Andretti succeeds in USAC, his first cousin once removed Michael might give him some practice in the IndyCar ladder series, but I tend to think that's not going to happen. I mean Sage Karam seemed like he was certainly going to go up to IndyCar with Andretti Autosport (he was considered Michael Andretti's other protege besides Marco, and is one of Marco's best friends) and they ended up going their separate ways, with Karam now driving sports cars for Ganassi... 2250. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.06.2014 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "More on the new RR channel created earlier today: for anyone who wishes to become a channel "manager" (that is, have the ability to upload videos and do other things with the channel), here's how you do it. Post your YouTube channel in the comments section, and I will send you a private message from the RR channel. The message will contain the e-mail address and password to the Gmail account. My message will then instruct you on what to do after that" I'd love too be a part of it but i only have Windows Movie Maker. I really don't think you guys would like my crappy videos on RR.info channel. 2251. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.06.2014 - 6:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Ross Chastian will run the first 5 truck races with Robby Benton's #92 team, and could run up to a dozen races this year. Big news: Jeb Burton will drive the ThorSport #13 at Daytona in both the Truck and ARCA series, with Carolina Nut Co. sponsor. Additional races are TBD at this team and will depend on sponsorship. 2252. Ryan posted: 02.06.2014 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Sounds like JR Motorsports is trying to get a ride for Johanna Long and Jeb Burton 2253. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.06.2014 - 7:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) JR Motorsports said the other day when Harvick's sponsors were announced that in addition to his 13 race schedule, they were looking to fill out the balance of the schedule in the #5 with additional drivers. I'm guessing that's where Burton and Long would go. 2254. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.06.2014 - 7:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Yes, IndyCar has two legacy drivers (Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal) and a possible third coming (Conor Daly), but in general NASCAR is where the relatives of famous open-wheel drivers have eventually gone lately: Christian Fittipaldi, Casey Mears, John Andretti (yes, I know they all came from IndyCar), Nelson Piquet, Jr., with intermittent rumors about Bruno Senna... " The ones that couldn't hack it in open-wheel, that is... 2255. Eric posted: 02.06.2014 - 8:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The thing with Jeff Gordon and USAC is Jeff actually was using USAC for going into CART, not NASCAR. Jeff himself even said on Wind Tunnel years ago that when he was growing up, he wanted to race in the Indy 500. Jeff actually wasn't in racing NASCAR before his career in USAC wasn't leading to his dream of racing the Indy 500. The problem was no CART owner was interest in Jeff because Jeff didn't bring a sponsor with him and the fact he was racing in USAC. The other thing is NASCAR was back up plan because Jeff's stepfather asked Dale Earnhardt Sr. for advice in terms of Jeff's Career around 1989 or 1990 if USAC didn't bring Jeff into CART. 2256. The Long Shot posted: 02.06.2014 - 9:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 1995 Subaru, don't worry about it. You are more than welcome to contribute to the channel. In fact, I'm actually in the same boat as you (I do have Pinnacle Studio as well, but that program is extremely unstable). I'll probably message other RR YouTubers whose channels I'm aware of to gauge their interest in the new channel. Again, if you have interest, post your channel in the comments and I will send a PM to you. 2257. Eric posted: 02.06.2014 - 9:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I got the info about Jeff's stepfather asked Dale Earnhardt Sr. for advice in terms of Jeff's Career around 1989 or 1990 if USAC didn't bring Jeff into CART from reading about it from a magazine years ago. 2258. The Long Shot posted: 02.07.2014 - 11:54 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) NTS Motorsports will run 2 full-time trucks next season, as well as 2 full-time East Series cars. Brennan Newberry and Gray Gaulding will run the East Series cars for the full season, as well as 12 and 7 races respectively in the #24 and #20 trucks. The rest of the races will be filled by various other drivers (John King will run the #20 at Daytona). 2259. Sean posted: 02.07.2014 - 12:08 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The ones that couldn't hack it in open-wheel, that is..." Yeah, but do you really think Marco Andretti and Graham Rahal are better than the drivers I listed? They're really not. John Andretti was the best driver I listed there, and definitely better than Marco and Graham, and I don't really think he was forced out of CART...I think he still had opportunities when he chose NASCAR. Casey Mears switched because he had few other options, and that's probably also the case for Christian Fittipaldi, but Christian then was pretty much the same as Marco today - no better or worse. Yes, I'll grant that none of these drivers (save maybe John again) are worthy of being in a discussion with the better legacy drivers like Nico Rosberg or Jordan Taylor... "The thing with Jeff Gordon and USAC is Jeff actually was using USAC for going into CART, not NASCAR. Jeff himself even said on Wind Tunnel years ago that when he was growing up, he wanted to race in the Indy 500. Jeff actually wasn't in racing NASCAR before his career in USAC wasn't leading to his dream of racing the Indy 500. The problem was no CART owner was interest in Jeff because Jeff didn't bring a sponsor with him and the fact he was racing in USAC." That's the IRL fans' myth, but I've seen quotes elsewhere that indicated that NASCAR was Gordon's primary goal as early as 1989 and he was only exploring CART opportunities when he thought there was a chance he wouldn't make it to Winston Cup. And as I've said, USAC closed that ladder itself, not CART, yet the IRL fans want to blame CART. After USAC banned rear-engine cars, pretty much every IndyCar star came from an unusual background. Tom Sneva did have experience driving rear-engine cars in USAC sprint cars before they were banned, but after that? Danny Ongais came from drag racing before racing pretty much everything else, but had little sprint experience. Rick Mears came from off-road racing. Bobby Rahal came from sports cars. Danny Sullivan came from Formula One. Michael Andretti came from open wheel road course feeder series. Al Unser, Jr. did start in sprint cars but switched to the same road course feeder series when he realized he had to in order to make the big time. Etc... etc... etc... So even if the myth of Jeff Gordon "being turned away by IndyCar" is correct, it is overblown if there are contradictory quotes stating that NASCAR was his primary goal much earlier than people think and considering he did not follow the correct ladder to IndyCar (as other Americans like Bryan Herta and Jimmy Vasser were doing at the time) and expected CART teams to hire him without the proper relevant experience. He'd have probably been fairly successful, but not nearly as much as he has been in NASCAR. One more thing: if Tony George was serious about getting USAC talents to IndyCar and supporting oval tracks, he needed to make two moves in the late '80s/early '90s: 1. Start a 2-car Indy Lights team for USAC alumni to give them experience in formula open wheel cars (and experience on road courses - from Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart we KNOW that USAC drivers can eventually figure it out on road courses). 2. He needed to create a track-owning empire as NASCAR did with ISC. The ISC/SMI monopoly eventually freezed out both CART and IRL from having as many oval races as they needed to begin to even challenge NASCAR. People underestimate just how big NASCAR buying out most of its own tracks was to NASCAR's eventual success. And both of those moves would have probably been cheaper and less destructive than the IRL in the long run. 2260. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.07.2014 - 1:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Sounds like JR Motorsports is trying to get a ride for Johanna Long and Jeb Burton" Wouldn't be a bad place. "1995 Subaru, don't worry about it. You are more than welcome to contribute to the channel. In fact, I'm actually in the same boat as you (I do have Pinnacle Studio as well, but that program is extremely unstable)." I'll think about it. "2. He needed to create a track-owning empire as NASCAR did with ISC. The ISC/SMI monopoly eventually freezed out both CART and IRL from having as many oval races as they needed to begin to even challenge NASCAR. People underestimate just how big NASCAR buying out most of its own tracks was to NASCAR's eventual success." Well the George family own the Brickyard, which is "holy ground" for open wheel cars (NASCAR came in for profit and they have made their money). Tony George possibly thought 'we have the Brickyard.' Eh, wrongo. The Brickyard isn't what it once was, history and prestige can only carry you so far... Now for some funny news, the NEW NBA commish Adam Silver "we will rival the NFL in popularity one day." Excuse me *rolls around on the floor laugh hystairically* Are you serious? Will NEVER happen. Why are you going there? Guess what, the NFL will come back too YOU. The NFL isn't going too keep up forever, not happening. The NFL is going too be facing some issues in the near future that it can't buy its way out of. NASCAR has a (slimmer) better shot at beating the NFL, NASCAR is posed too be #1 in about 10-20 years (a postive POV guys). Micheal Wilbon on the BSPN show PTI said "we will not hear the NFL come down." Wrong, yes we well. Exhibit A: NASCAR. The NBA is a niche sport like NASCAR is (atleast i view it like that). Adam Silver is a burke for even saying that. 2261. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.07.2014 - 2:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NTS Motorsports will run 2 full-time trucks next season, as well as 2 full-time East Series cars. Brennan Newberry and Gray Gaulding will run the East Series cars for the full season, as well as 12 and 7 races respectively in the #24 and #20 trucks. The rest of the races will be filled by various other drivers (John King will run the #20 at Daytona)." None of that is good news for Nelson Piquet Jr. fans. He's confirmed out at Turner Scott Motorsports. He ran the #9 truck (now the #20) for NTS at Homestead after Hornaday was released and had been rumored to take over that ride full-time this season. Now with both NTS trucks having about 10-12 races each already accounted for, his chances for a full-time ride in any Nascar series this season are looking slim to none. 2262. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.07.2014 - 2:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "1. Start a 2-car Indy Lights team for USAC alumni to give them experience in formula open wheel cars (and experience on road courses - from Jeff Gordon and Tony Stewart we KNOW that USAC drivers can eventually figure it out on road courses)." To a degree they tried this with Bryan Clauson. He used his USAC champion scholarship to run 6 IndyLights races in 2011 and 2 in 2012, as well as the 2012 Indianapolis 500. But IndyCar definately needs to work on that program. There's plenty of USAC drivers (Clauson, Chris Windom, Rico Abreu, Christopher Bell, etc.) that Indy would benefit from trying to get into the series. Look at how good the crowd was at the Chili Bowl this year. IndyCar will be lucky to have a crowd half that enthusiastic at any race this year outside of the 500. And imagine how great the Indy 500 could be in half of the drivers I mentioned would get a chance to run this year. Up and coming American drivers the USAC fanbase is connected with will sell a lot more tickets than more buy-a-ride foreigners will. (Looking at you, Mikhail Aleshin and Carlos Huertas). Not many people will get excited about rookies they had never heard of before preseason testing. 2263. Sean posted: 02.07.2014 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "To a degree they tried this with Bryan Clauson. He used his USAC champion scholarship to run 6 IndyLights races in 2011 and 2 in 2012, as well as the 2012 Indianapolis 500." The problem was Clauson was rushed up too quickly and was pretty embarrassing as a result. Josef Newgarden was his teammate in every single one of his starts and beat him in every single race, and Newgarden was not a particularly special road racer in the F1 ladder series while Clauson was the biggest USAC star at the time (or 2nd to Kyle Larson who was already starting to be hyped big time...) His overall Indy 500 performance counting qualifying and the race was probably the worst since the early IRL days... Yes, he beat Simona de Silvestro and Jean Alesi, but they were effectively start & parks... If Clauson had done better at Indy, maybe that ladder would have continued, but unfortunately his lack of performance reflected poorly on USAC drivers and basically closed that ladder. "will sell a lot more tickets than more buy-a-ride foreigners will." I don't really know about that. How much long-term interest would result if these drivers made it to IndyCar and weren't competitive? Even in the early IRL when the superior drivers from CART were missing, ONLY Tony Stewart and Billy Boat managed to be competitive... Stewart probably would have been able to survive the entry of the CART drivers... Boat definitely couldn't have, and at that point I imagine the interest started to plummet amongst grassroots American racing fans. I don't know what the solution is but foreign drivers are superior at formula racing. Plain and simple. Would I rather see a good USAC driver than Carlos Huertas? Absolutely (and Panther really can't find a better ride-buyer than that? James Jakes and Simona de Silvestro both have money, right?) But you have to be careful when you criticize European drivers because there are probably a lot of grassroots American fans who felt the same way about European imports like Alex Zanardi, Dario Franchitti, etc... when they came out of nowhere to race in CART. And Mikhail Aleshin, even though I tend to think he's going to suck, HAS at least won a fairly significant championship, which should make him better than MANY of the ride-buyers CART and IRL saw in the '90s. 2264. Sean posted: 02.07.2014 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Josef Newgarden was his teammate in every single one of his starts and beat him in every single race, and Newgarden was not a particularly special road racer in the F1 ladder series while Clauson was the biggest USAC star at the time" Not to mention that Clauson was ONLY competing on the ovals and he was still beaten by Newgarden every single time, despite Newgarden entering the 2011 Indy Lights season with (I assume) no oval experience... 2265. Sean posted: 02.07.2014 - 3:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Even in the early IRL when the superior drivers from CART were missing, ONLY Tony Stewart and Billy Boat managed to be competitive..." I'll grant that Davey Hamilton had some good points finishes, but to go winless against such weak fields does not speak well for him, although I was impressed by his top 10 in the Indy 500 in 2007 after he came back from his injury. 2266. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.07.2014 - 4:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) " His overall Indy 500 performance counting qualifying and the race was probably the worst since the early IRL days... Yes, he beat Simona de Silvestro and Jean Alesi, but they were effectively start & parks..." To be fair, Clauson was heading towards a top 20 qualifying spot when he had the wall and ruined his lap and damaged his car. I believe they actually had to go to a backup car that was off the pace and pretty much ruined his entire race, he went off track with handling issues just 46 laps in. "Would I rather see a good USAC driver than Carlos Huertas? Absolutely (and Panther really can't find a better ride-buyer than that? James Jakes and Simona de Silvestro both have money, right?)" Jakes has money apparently but all the rumors about Simona's potential rides for 2014 have dried up. Apparently, her sponsor left and she can no longer afford to fund a full-season. "But you have to be careful when you criticize European drivers because there are probably a lot of grassroots American fans who felt the same way about European imports like Alex Zanardi, Dario Franchitti, etc... when they came out of nowhere to race in CART." Zanardi and Franchitti were not "buy-a-ride" drivers, nor did they come out of nowhere imo. Zanardi already had some F1 experience before moving to CART, and Dario had success over in Europe as well, turing down an offer to become a McLaren test driver to move to CART. While not household names in America, I assume that racing fans were at least moderately familiar with both prior to their becoming IndyCar drivers. Both were huge stars for IndyCar at one point. I have no problem with foreign-born IndyCar drivers that show talent, such as Castroneves, Kanaan, Bourdais, Pagenaud, etc. I just don't like seeing "buy-a-rides" with little to no talent in the series, i.e. James Jakes, E.J. Viso, Mikhail Aleshin, etc. 2267. An Aussie Commentator posted: 02.07.2014 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) If Rodger Penske decides to run a Australian V8 supercars team, I wonder how long it will be before rumors start of Sam Hornish Jr. Going to V8's start? 2268. Sean posted: 02.07.2014 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Of course I know Zanardi and Franchitti weren't ride-buyers. Franchitti was a factory Mercedes driver in German touring cars and Zanardi was a past F1 driver, so they were known to the international racing fan population, even if few people had heard of them in the US until they went to CART. However, there were some past F1 drivers competing in both CART and the IRL (and in F1 for that matter) who were primarily there because of the money they brought and showed minimal talent anywhere (Tarso Marques, Tora Takagi) so JUST being a past F1 driver isn't enough... It becomes hard to distinguish a legit talent like Zanardi to a true ride-buyer like Marques when quite frankly Zanardi was barely more successful than Marques in Formula One. Zanardi did beat Michael Schumacher in a test for Benetton before either of them were household names, so there is that, but Zanardi lost the Formula 3000 title to Christian Fittipaldi, who ended up doing very little in his career... From a 1995 perspective, there was no real reason to expect Zanardi's dominance in CART in 1996-98 because several drivers who were more successful than him in F1 (Stefan Johansson, Eddie Cheever) didn't do much stateside besides Cheever winning an Indy 500 against a very weak field. Similarly, I acknowledge that Dario Franchitti was something of a hot Formula One prospect before he went to CART, but he made 46 starts in the German Touring Car Championship and International Touring Car Championship, where he won 2 races and 0 titles. He finished 4th in British Formula Three where he won one race... He was an okay international talent but from a 1996 perspective he wasn't THAT hot a prospect and hadn't been winning THAT prolifically. Kenny Brack was a hotter prospect and although he did do well here, he didn't do as well overall as Franchitti. Of course Zanardi and Franchitti did prove themselves in the US, but if you're looking at their careers before CART, they weren't so hot. I was not accusing you of trashing on foreign drivers in favor of American sprint car drivers at all, but you must acknowledge that there are a lot of sprint car fans who probably are like that and are turned off by all the foreign drivers in IndyCar. Anybody who actually thinks IndyCar is "wine and cheese" today when NASCAR is much more "wine and cheese" at the moment would probably be like that, and I do think many sprint car fans feel this way... Criticizing ride-buyers per se is a tricky proposition because Formula One legends like Niki Lauda and Michael Schumacher (get well soon) did technically start out ride-buying even though they also had the talent. Few would call them ride-buyers because of their great success, and I realize that most racing fans only use that term in regard to BAD ride-buyers, and on that point I agree. I agree with you on E.J. Viso and James Jakes. Neither of them have proven anything and it is tiresome that they keep getting rides when more proven drivers don't. I also agree on Carlos Huertas who has proven basically nothing in the European open-wheel feeder series. I can't agree on Mikhail Aleshin just yet though considering he did win a Formula Renault 3.5 championship (even if his other years in that series were mediocre), and DID beat Sebastian Vettel's current teammate Daniel Ricciardo to win that title. While I'm not arguing Zanardi and Franchitti were ride-buyers, I DO think you can make a case that Aleshin at this point has proven himself about as well as Zanardi and Franchitti had by their rookie seasons in the US, as neither of them were particularly dominant in Europe either. While I too tend to expect that Aleshin will suck, I think it's too early to say that when people who have done less than him have gone on to success (Will Power drove in that same series and DIDN'T win the title, and went winless in British Formula 3), but I agree with you on Viso, Jakes, and Huertas. You never know who's going to develop. I guess as long as a ride-buyer has SOME kind of achievement, it doesn't bother me. And again, I was not accusing you of thinking they came out of nowhere, but the hardcore sprint car fans (i.e. the ones who you're saying wouldn't watch IndyCar) were likely turned off by most of the foreign drivers for quite some time. Begrudgingly, many of them would probably respect Castroneves, Kanaan, Franchitti, etc... over years of success, but I can't imagine any of them being popular with the sprint car fans who weren't already watching IndyCar at the start of their careers (particularly when you consider none of them did very much as rookies...) Basically we agree on everything except Aleshin, but I do imagine that sprint car fans initially were probably turned off by Zanardi and Franchitti especially considering they came into CART in the early years of the IRL when American sprint car talents were being promoted (with almost none of them doing anything). 2269. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.07.2014 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Gualter Salles... Hehehehehhehehehehhehe 2270. DB1995 posted: 02.08.2014 - 4:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) has anyone voted for the sprint unlimited?, did you notice 2 of the choices for lineup automatically makes a hendrick motorsports driver on the pole? yet NASCAR wonders why people think NASCAR rigs things their way. 2271. jabber1990 posted: 02.08.2014 - 7:16 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) on a lighter note, has anyone mentioned that they have a sponsor for Texas Race in the spring? I haven't read anything on here so I wonder if y'all had heard. or if we're just afraid to mention it 2272. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.08.2014 - 7:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^Lol... I plead the Fifth and refuse to say more on the matter until someone else does. 2273. DB1995 posted: 02.08.2014 - 7:44 pm Rate this comment: (2) (0) i was kind of hoping they wouldnt get a sponsor for the race, run out of money and be forced to give a date to darlington or Atlanta 2274. Ryan posted: 02.08.2014 - 8:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Texas race shall be known as the Troll 500. (It's the Duck Commander 500 in case you didn't know). Eddie Gossage thinks he's Rush Limbaugh smh 2275. joey2448 posted: 02.08.2014 - 8:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone here watching the online stream of the Bathurst 12 hours? Been quite a good race so far... 2276. Eric posted: 02.08.2014 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) jabber1990, No one has said anything for the Texas Motorspeedway Sponsor for the April race for a reason. Duck Commander is a controversial company right now because of what the founder of the company said in December and I not rather discuss what the founder said despite the fact the founder hasn't been the CEO of the company for a long time with 3rd son being the CEO for years since the son has the business degree. Duck Commander is Sponsoring the race for 3 reasons. 1.) Duck Commander is a well known company across the United States that enough money to sponsor a race. 2.) The family that owns the Duck Commander is currently on a well known reality tv show called Duck Dynasty despite the ratings are in decline. 3.) One the family members on Duck dynasty is controversial and Eddie Gossage has no problem with controversy. 2277. jabber1990 posted: 02.08.2014 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was going to state my opinion (don't worry it was good) hey Webmaster, can you delete my first comment on the matter and all the ones pertaining that so that we can pretend this didn't happen? 2278. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.09.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sean, I was picking through ESPN's NBA comments, and who did I stumble across but our good friend Ncrdbl1 from RACER. As you can imagine, he is as much of a screwball as he seems with a genuine deep-seated belief in an LMP2 conspiracy and that Obama is the Antichrist... screwball. I blocked his FB page within ONE minute of finding it. 2279. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.09.2014 - 1:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I"m not suprised people are up in arms over Duck Commander being the sponser of the race Eddie Gossage finger prints are all over it. I'm pretty sure NASCAR didn't want anything too do with it but track promoters control race sponsers not NASCAR. *shrugs* 2280. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.09.2014 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) As far as the Duck Commander 500 fiasco, I'm not complaining. The people within it are controversial, but the product is still a product. Now if GLAAD or the Southern Baptist Convention were sponsoring the race, THEN I'd be complaining. 2281. We need more Onion posted: 02.09.2014 - 3:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Anyone watching NHRA? What is the deal with the guy who took the Lucas top fuel ride; Can anybody fill me in on him? I know Morgan "retired", but have no idea who Richie Crampton is. 2282. The Long Shot posted: 02.09.2014 - 4:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I have to agree with NRF on this one. Despite the outward political stances that Duck Commander's owners have taken, the company itself does not involve politics in any way, so I don't really have a problem with their sponsoring the race. The Texas event that I have a bigger problem with is the NRA 500, since that organization does support a political agenda. 2283. BluesTravelerFan posted: 02.09.2014 - 4:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I didn't watch the whole thing, but I did just see part of something I hadn't seen in a long time. I had forgotten just how incredibly well done the movie DALE (the real documentary) was. I've always been aware of his greatness as a driver and a person(even though I didn't really live to see it when it happened) but seeing that from a new perspective shows how much of a genuine American (even though at the end of the movie he asks the rhetorical question "are there really any heroes in this world") hero he was. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one will ever convince me that Dale Earnhardt isn't the greatest driver ever. 2284. ch posted: 02.09.2014 - 5:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So it looks like JJ Yeley will be driving the #44 Chevy full-time this year. Both JJ's Facebook page, and the XXXtreme Motorsports twitter account have all but confirmed it. 2285. murb posted: 02.09.2014 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't mind Duck Commander sponsoring the Texas race just as long as they don't have a ton of pointless interviews with the Duck Dynasty guys. 2286. jabber1990 posted: 02.09.2014 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "just as long as they don't have a ton of pointless interviews with the Duck Dynasty guys." I can't picture the media doing such a thing Duck Commander is perfect for Texas. they make Duck Calls and a lot of hunting and fishing and I think Camping supplies, what's the first thing you think of when you think of Texas? I also thought the NRA Sponsorship was appropriate for Texas, (see previous paragraph) but I could have lived without the fact they did it just for attention. I also don't support a lot of what they say (the government wants to silence us, so don't listen to them) that's my opinion, and I think most of you agree with me, and my statement was 100% non-political. I could post about the Phil Robertson thing but I wont. we'll all probably disagree with each other, and its not related to racing or sports or anything 2287. An Aussie Commentator posted: 02.09.2014 - 6:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So it looks like JJ Yeley will be driving the #44 Chevy full-time this year. Both JJ's Facebook page, and the XXXtreme Motorsports twitter account have all but confirmed it." Who's the bigger start-and-park glutton? Wise or Yeley? XXXtreme won't be attempting to run an event, at least Parson's will run 1 event (confirmed Sponsor at Las Vegas). Looking at the #44 team's qualifying, I think they will make about 10 events this year, if that. 2288. The Long Shot posted: 02.09.2014 - 8:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "I've always been aware of his greatness as a driver and a person(even though I didn't really live to see it when it happened) but seeing that from a new perspective shows how much of a genuine American (even though at the end of the movie he asks the rhetorical question "are there really any heroes in this world") hero he was. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but no one will ever convince me that Dale Earnhardt isn't the greatest driver ever." I wouldn't say that Earnhardt was the best NASCAR driver ever (Petty and Pearson would probably be ahead of him in that category), but I think he earns the label of "greatest" because of his image. It is true that the legend of Dale Earnhardt has been greatly and unfairly enhanced since his passing, but even prior to 2/18/01, he was considered a "larger-than-life" personality by many. While I wasn't alive at the time, from all that I've heard, Dale was thought of as nothing more than a reckless, hot-headed rookie when he first entered NASCAR, but once people started recognizing the intelligence and finesse with which he complemented his aggression, he became a fan-favorite (his Southern personality no doubt worked in his favor as well). Of course people looked up to him. Who wouldn't? The guy was seemingly invincible on track. Unlike many drivers, he took risks, and more often than not he benefited from them. Petty and Pearson were better drivers, and DW may have been a better on-camera personality, but no one has ever been a better image for the sport than the man they called "The Intimidator", Dale Earnhardt. 2289. The Long Shot posted: 02.09.2014 - 8:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like Turner-Scott will run their second truck with a variety of different drivers, and not solely with Tayler Malsam as previously reported. Malsam reportedly will run some races, with Ron Hornaday, Brandon Jones, and Todd Bodine all being mentioned as candidates for additional races. All this does is confirm that Turner-Scott Motorsports is in a very bad state financially. Remember when we were all berating James Buescher for leaving TSM for RAB Racing? Perhaps those statements were a bit hasty... It also appears as though Tri-Star Motorsports will run 5 cars at Daytona this weekend. Mike Bliss will drive the #19 G-Oil Toyota, Eric McClure will drive the #14 Hefty Toyota, Blake Koch will drive the #44 Son of God Toyota, David Starr will drive the #10 Toyota, and Jeff Green will drive the #91 Supportmilitary.com Toyota. 2290. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.09.2014 - 8:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tri-Star is running FIVE Daytona cars!? Good Lord. 2291. BluesTravelerFan posted: 02.09.2014 - 8:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I couldn't agree much more with what you said there Long Shot. Dale was a true genius when it came to marketing his image(something DSFF has said many times on here). 2292. Anonymous posted: 02.09.2014 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) So is 2014 the year that Dale Jr. wins a race, given the "win and you're in" Chase format? 2293. 18fan posted: 02.09.2014 - 10:29 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It definitely seems like Turner-Scott Motorsports expanded too fast and when you couple that with losing sponsors, you end up having financial trouble. 2294. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.10.2014 - 5:17 am Rate this comment: (0) (1) Speaking of GLAAD... what do people think of Michael Sam coming out? He basically says "I'm gay; I'm proud; now look at me as any other NFL player." He seems to have a great attitude about this, and as someone who doesn't support gay marriage I will say I have tremendous respect for Michael Sam because he has class. I will root for him like any other player if he plays for my Redskins. 2295. The Long Shot posted: 02.10.2014 - 10:12 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) The fact that Sam did it before even being drafted only increases my respect for the guy. In a league that is well known to be filled with homophobes (Mike Priefer being an example to the extreme), it takes an awful lot of guts to do something like this BEFORE YOUR CAREER'S EVEN STARTED. Major kudos to Michael Sam for doing this. I have no shame in saying that I'll probably be rooting for him more than most, not because of his being homosexual, but because of the surrounding environment and the anti-gay atmosphere that envelops the NFL at the moment, which makes him an underdog of sorts. The same can be said for minorities in NASCAR. Take Bubba Wallace's Martinsville win, for example. I can't speak for anyone else, but I loved the victory because it was a minority pulling off a victory in a sport that has been stereotyped as being racist, in part due to its Southern roots, and in part due to the treatment of Wendell Scott during his tenure in NASCAR. Say all you want about progression and how there isn't nearly as much racism and homophobia as there was 50 years ago; NFL players use gay slurs in the locker room on a regular basis, and NASCAR fans were apparently giving Wallace the middle finger after his Martinsville win. Martin Luther King had a dream where all people could walk hand-in-hand as equals, no matter their gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation, or otherwise. As far as we've come as a society, we still are not even close to reaching that goal. As a result, people continue boosting the accomplishments of the minorities, because they are, again, in underdog-esque scenarios every time they come to the track. I don't root for Michael Sam, Darrell Wallace, or Johanna Long because of their status as a minority: I root for them because of the oppression that faces them because of their minority status. Sorry about the rant. Back to the NFL, the unfortunate thing is that now Sam, who apparently was projected as a mid-round draft pick, could potentially slide into the late rounds and maybe even go undrafted. Whether you support the LGBT movement or not, I can't see how anyone can think that's fair. Sexual orientation shouldn't matter on the football field: football playing should matter on the football field. 2296. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.10.2014 - 11:55 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "football playing should matter on the football field." The NFL has been going away from that for years. You hear more OFF the field stories then ON field stories. The NFL has an identity crisis, what do you want too be? You want too care about safety yet you want a longer regular season? You promote your support for Micheal Sam yet have people in your league who are AGAINST having people like Micheal Sam in your league? Alot of other stuff i can add too that but you get the idea. 2297. jabber1990 posted: 02.10.2014 - 1:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kelley Earnhardt informed Sirius XM Nascar that JR Motorsports is trying to put a deal together with Johanna Long and Jeb Burton. (Source NASCAR memes) awesome!! now, JR motorsports already has 2 and a half cars right? so are they going to build 2 more cars or just 1 more and let them share the ride? 2298. The Long Shot posted: 02.10.2014 - 3:18 pm Rate this comment: (5) (0) Richard Petty on whether or not Danica Patrick would ever win a Cup race: "Only if everyone else stayed home." 2299. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.10.2014 - 3:35 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think everyone would need to stay home for Danica to win the race, but if there was only 13 or fewer cars on the track she could do it. 2300. startandparkfan posted: 02.10.2014 - 3:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "So it looks like JJ Yeley will be driving the #44 Chevy full-time this year. Both JJ's Facebook page, and the XXXtreme Motorsports twitter account have all but confirmed it." Where did you find this? I looked on both those pages and couldn't find anything. XXXTreme is a terrible team, too bad Yeley has to drive for it. Isn't the 3rd Front Row team available? Or are they not running it this year. 2301. startandparkfan posted: 02.10.2014 - 3:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, they have a terrible name. 2302. murb posted: 02.10.2014 - 4:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (2) Reason #5,789 to love The King. 2303. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.10.2014 - 4:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "now, JR motorsports already has 2 and a half cars right? so are they going to build 2 more cars or just 1 more and let them share the ride?" JR Motorsports said that Harvick will run 13 races in the #5 car and that they are looking for additional drivers to fill out the schedule in that car. I assume that's where Burton and Long would run their races, should those deals go through. "XXXTreme is a terrible team, too bad Yeley has to drive for it. Isn't the 3rd Front Row team available? Or are they not running it this year." Eric McClure will run the #35 at Daytona, and they are looking for other drivers to run throughout the year. I imagine the car will be a start and park with someone like Tony Raines most of the time. 2304. murb posted: 02.10.2014 - 4:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) Danica can't win until she learns to put herself in position at the end of the race, and right now, she doesn't know how to do that. You can make the plate race argument, but even then she doesn't fully know how to get up there and stay up there. The only reason she finished 8th in the 500 last year is because all she had to do was stay in line the whole race (since they could hardly pass). The closest I've seen her come was at one of the Daytona NNS races (I think it was July 2011). She was leading with like 5 to go, getting pushed by Aric Almirola, and she was on her way to actually fighting for the win until she blew it and started jerking her car around, which broke up their tandem and let everyone else catch up. Will she be able to learn and one day contend for a win? It's absolutely possible. But for right now, The King is right. She can't win unless everyone else stays home. She has to learn what it takes to win a legit, non-fuel mileage race. 2305. Sean posted: 02.10.2014 - 4:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Richard Petty on whether or not Danica Patrick would ever win a Cup race: "Only if everyone else stayed home."" I can't stand her, but I'm afraid I disagree. She's the female Casey Mears and she's got enough name cachet that she will always remain sponsored and will always be with a well-funded team. With enough experience, she should improve to consistently mediocre like Michael Waltrip or Kenny Wallace or something, and should be able to steal a fuel mileage race in that car somewhere between her 4th and 6th year given the cars that she has... But just winning doesn't make someone relevant, just as not winning doesn't NECESSARILY mean someone isn't relevant (Dick Trickle, Rick Mast, Ted Musgrave, Mike Skinner, Hut Stricklin, etc...) Relevance is what you do overall, and one win isn't enough. A better definition of relevance might be leading 2000 laps in a career. She'll never do that. 2306. The Long Shot posted: 02.10.2014 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sprint Unlimited entry list released; 18 cars entered. The only entry of note is Terry Labonte in the #32 for FAS Lane Racing. 2307. 1995 Subaru WRX STi posted: 02.10.2014 - 5:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Richard Petty on whether or not Danica Patrick would ever win a Cup race: "Only if everyone else stayed home."" He is right. Danica only has 3 tracks that she doesn't look lost at; Daytona, Talladega, Martinsville. That is it. Far as i see it Danica has Martinsville downpat, she "gets" how too get around there. She did decent at BMS in 2012 (forget the race) until she got wrecked. She did VERY well at Road America until she got wrecked (again) and Montreal when some dumbass threw something on the track (making NASCAR look REAL good in the process) and something broke after word. She should be in Trucks and Nationwide right now, full-time in both. Only reason why she is in the Cup series because GoDaddy wanted her there. 2308. Eric posted: 02.10.2014 - 5:51 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Richard Petty is correct about Danica Patrick. People on Danica's page on this site that are fans of hers are making excuses for her despite the fact she is not on an underfunded organization. When a well founded driver is running close to front row racing drivers on non plate races, there is a problem with the driver. 2309. DB1995 posted: 02.10.2014 - 7:33 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) as a Danica supporter "fan" I will be the first to say everything Richard Petty said is true 100% I do think she has the ability to do better but I just do not think she is trying hard enough, driving for an organization who hired Mark Martin for a drivers coach and you don't use him as much as possible to learn as much as humanly possible equals lack of effort on your part. 2310. Zackary Shawn posted: 02.11.2014 - 12:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "has anyone voted for the sprint unlimited?, did you notice 2 of the choices for lineup automatically makes a hendrick motorsports driver on the pole? yet NASCAR wonders why people think NASCAR rigs things their way." Come on dude, give me a break. The Hendrick conspiracies really do get old, especially when you really have to grasp for straws like you've done here. Do you actually believe that was NASCAR's intention. If so, why not just implement a system that would give Hendrick Motorsports the pole, rather than giving fans the choice to choose a third option that could give anyone the pole? Yawn... #nontroversy "Sounds like JR Motorsports is trying to get a ride for Johanna Long and Jeb Burton" Please, please, PLEASE let this deal come through!!! "So is 2014 the year that Dale Jr. wins a race, given the "win and you're in" Chase format?" Yes. The favorite to win the 500 in my opinion. "on a lighter note, has anyone mentioned that they have a sponsor for Texas Race in the spring?" Duck Commander is just a company. It has no political motivation in and of itself. It's founder expressed his view on a topic that everyone has opinion on. It didn't conform with what modern day society thinks people's view should be, but that's the beauty of the 1st Amendment--not everybody has to think the same way. I, for one, found Phil Robertson's remarks to be crude, but agree with the jest of them (although the actual legal rights side is different from the religious side in my mind on this particular issue). As for the NRA last year, even though I STRONGLY AGREE with what they promote, if I remove my own personal bias from the situation it's probably best that an organization directly involved in politics doesn't sponsor a race. I wouldn't like it if Planned Parenthood sponsored a race, so I understand why people would be uncomfortable with the NRA sponsorship (even though I think people who oppose the NRA are on the wrong side of the issue). "Speaking of GLAAD... what do people think of Michael Sam coming out?" Just another player. Deserves no different treatment, worse OR better, than anyone else out there. "Richard Petty on whether or not Danica Patrick would ever win a Cup race: "Only if everyone else stayed home."" Disagree with The King. A man who ran all the races and finished lower than her in the points won a race a last year. BUT he did so with fan inferior equipment. However, there have been numerous open wheel drivers with better resumes than her who haven't exactly set the world on fire in NASCAR. 2311. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.11.2014 - 10:41 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Stupid Question. I can't get a straight answer if the Sprint Unlimited is going to be broadcasted on the normal FOX or FOX sports 1. I hope it's the former and not the latter, and you can image how livid I'll be if it is the latter. 2312. Zackary Shawn posted: 02.11.2014 - 10:48 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Stupid Question. I can't get a straight answer if the Sprint Unlimited is going to be broadcasted on the normal FOX or FOX sports 1. I hope it's the former and not the latter, and you can image how livid I'll be if it is the latter." It appears to be on Fox Sports 1 according to my research. 2313. David posted: 02.11.2014 - 10:52 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Stupid Question. I can't get a straight answer if the Sprint Unlimited is going to be broadcasted on the normal FOX or FOX sports 1. I hope it's the former and not the latter, and you can image how livid I'll be if it is the latter." FS1. I'm livid as well. 2314. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.11.2014 - 1:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) RIP Shirley Temple 2315. murb posted: 02.11.2014 - 2:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NBC Sports is gonna do a new daily Nascar show called "Nascar America" starting after the Daytona 500, and Rick Allen is going to be the host. So it sounds like Rick Allen has already moved over to NBC, which means we'll probably have a new Truck Series announcer this year. That's kind of a bummer. 2316. Zackary Shawn posted: 02.11.2014 - 3:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "NBC Sports is gonna do a new daily Nascar show called "Nascar America" starting after the Daytona 500, and Rick Allen is going to be the host. So it sounds like Rick Allen has already moved over to NBC, which means we'll probably have a new Truck Series announcer this year. That's kind of a bummer." Not necessarily...remember Larry Mac does Fox and TNT. So does Matt Yocum I believe. And Adam Alexander on Fox Sports 1 and TNT. And Kyle Petty does TNT and RaceDay on Fox Sports 1 (AND he's an analyst on this new show). And, prior to 2007, the same team was used for NBC and TNT. And Ralph Shaheen does TNT and AMA Superbike which is produced by Fox, but airs on both Fox Sports 1 and CBS. And Marty Snider does NASCAR on TNT, but SEC football on CBS as well (although with this one, there is a relationship between the two companies). In short, there's actually quite a bit of crossover between broadcast teams. Also--in addition to Kyle Petty--Bobby Labonte, Ken Schrader, Jeff Burton, and Frank Stoddard will be analysts. 2317. murb posted: 02.11.2014 - 3:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeah, I didn't think of that Zack. I hope he does somehow manage to do both. And yeah, the Unlimited (I still REALLY hate that name) is idiotically going to be on Fox Sports 1. It's only a matter of time before the Daytona 500 itself is downgraded to that channel. 2318. SpeedWorld97 posted: 02.11.2014 - 3:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "It appears to be on Fox Sports 1 according to my research." If you think this is bad, then wait until 2015. Almost half of FOX's Races will be on FS1. I swear that they're doing it out of spite because they know race fans hate that channel, so they are going to put more races on it so more race fans like it. 2319. 18fan posted: 02.11.2014 - 4:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Unlimited always was on SPEED, so this year isn't any different than any previous year except for the channel name. 2320. 18fan posted: 02.11.2014 - 4:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FS1 also needs Sunday programming during the spring and FOX is trying to grow the channel to compete with ESPN, so I can see why they would put more races on FS1, which might have the secondary effect of getting more race fans to tune in to FS1 for more than just a race. I don't believe it is simply because they know that race fans hate FS1 because it replaced SPEED. 2321. murb posted: 02.11.2014 - 4:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "The Unlimited always was on SPEED" I think you're thinking of the Duels. The Shootout/Unlimited has been on regular Fox since 2001. 2322. murb posted: 02.11.2014 - 4:11 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Well, it was actually on NBC in 2002, 2004, and 2006 when they were doing the rotating Daytona 500 every year, but whenever Fox has had it, it has been on Fox up until this year. 2323. ch posted: 02.11.2014 - 5:32 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) In my opinion, FOX should have moved the Dayton 500 Qualifying to FS1 and kept the Unlimited on FOX. 2324. DB1995 posted: 02.11.2014 - 6:53 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Ross Chastain will drive 10-12 races for Ricky Benton in a ford, call me crazy but i feel like he showed alot more potential in his races than Ryan Blaney did and even Jeb Burton i think the ony one he didnt was Erik Jones and Chase Elliott 2325. Zackary Shawn posted: 02.11.2014 - 8:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "If you think this is bad, then wait until 2015. Almost half of FOX's Races will be on FS1. I swear that they're doing it out of spite because they know race fans hate that channel, so they are going to put more races on it so more race fans like it." Yeah I don't like actual points/"count towards the championship" races being on Fox Sports 1. Or NBC Sports Network for that matter. To me it's clear that races on cable don't do as well as those on network TV for whatever reason. 2326. DaleSrFanForever posted: 02.11.2014 - 10:00 pm Rate this comment: (3) (1) All hail King Richard! 2327. ch posted: 02.11.2014 - 10:02 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Was kind of bored today, so I figured I'd compile an updated mock entry list of the known cars / trucks that are going to be at Daytona. Cup (50 cars): 1-Jamie McMurray 2-Brad Keselowski 3-Austin Dillon 4-Kevin Harvick 5-Kasey Kahne 7-Michael Annett 9-Marcos Ambrose 10-Danica Patrick 11-Denny Hamlin 13-Casey Mears 14-Tony Stewart 15-Clint Bowyer 16-Greg Biffle 17-Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 18-Kyle Busch 20-Matt Kenseth 21-Trevor Bayne 22-Joey Logano 23-Alex Bowman 24-Jeff Gordon 26-Cole Whitt 27-Paul Menard 30-Parker Kligerman 31-Ryan Newman 32-Terry Labonte 33-Brian Scott 34-David Ragan 35-Eric McClure 36-Reed Sorenson 38-David Gilliland 40-Landon Cassill 41-Kurt Busch 42-Kyle Larson 43-Aric Almirola 44-JJ Yeley 47-A.J. Allmendinger 48-Jimmie Johnson 51-Justin Allgaier 52-Bobby Labonte 55-Brian Vickers 66-Michael Waltrip 77-Dave Blaney 78-Martin Truex Jr. 83-Ryan Truex 87-Joe Nemechek 88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. 93-Morgan Shepherd 95-Michael McDowell 98-Josh Wise 99-Carl Edwards Nationwide (45 cars): 01-Landon Cassill 2-Brian Scott 3-Ty Dillon 4-Jeffrey Earnhardt 5-Kevin Harvick 6-Trevor Bayne 7-Regan Smith 9-Chase Elliott 10-David Starr 11-Elliott Sadler 13-Carl Long 14-Eric McClure 16-Ryan Reed 17-Tanner Berryhill 19-Mike Bliss 20-Matt Kenseth 22-Brad Keselowski 23-Robert Richardson 24-Harrison Rhodes 28-Mike Wallace 31-Dylan Kwasniewski 32-Kyle Larson 39-Ryan Sieg 40-???? 43-Dakota Armstrong 44-Blake Koch 51-Jeremy Clements 52-Joey Gase 54-Kyle Busch 55-Jamie Dick 60-Chris Buescher 62-Brendan Gaughan 67-Tommy Joe Martins 73-Derrike Cope 74-Mike Harmon 76-Willie Allen 84-Chad Boat 85-Bobby Gerhart 87-Joe Nemechek 88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. 89-Morgan Shepherd 91-Jeff Green 93-Matt Carter 98-David Ragan 99-James Buescher Truck (31 trucks): 02-Tyler Young 07-Michel Disdier 08-Jimmy Weller III 5-John Wes Townley 7-Brian Ickler 8-Joe Nemechek 10-Jennifer Jo Cobb 13-Jeb Burton 17-Timothy Peters 19-Brad Keselowski 20-John King 21-Joey Coulter 24-Brennan Newberry 28-Ryan Ellis 29-Ryan Blaney 31-Ben Kennedy 32-Ryan Truex 35-Mason Mingus 39-Ryan Sieg 51-Kyle Busch 54-Darrell Wallace Jr. 57-Norm Benning 63-Justin Jennings 77-German Quiroga 82-Sean Corr 84-Chris Fontaine 88-Matt Crafton 92-Ross Chastain 98-Johnny Sauter 99-Bryan Silas ??-Parker Kligerman If anybody sees something off, let me know! 2328. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.11.2014 - 10:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) @2327-I believe Dale Jr. is in the #5 NNS car, not the #88. Harvick's schedule on his website lists his 1st of 15 NNS races this year as Phoenix. 2329. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.11.2014 - 11:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) (Grumbles) It's not like everyone here is willing to shell out money for cable/satellite/DriecTV/whatnot. Outside of NASCAR/Indycar/F1 events, my TV would only be turned on for the local weather. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone on Justin.tv will stream it live. 2330. The Long Shot posted: 02.12.2014 - 12:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Ross Chastain will drive 10-12 races for Ricky Benton in a ford, call me crazy but i feel like he showed alot more potential in his races than Ryan Blaney did and even Jeb Burton i think the ony one he didnt was Erik Jones and Chase Elliott" Chastain has a lot of potential, but he's still pretty raw. I don't think he showed any more in his starts than those drivers did in theirs. That being said, I do think he deserved that #19 ride much more than Tyler Reddick. "88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. 93-Morgan Shepherd" Expect Brian Keselowski to attempt the 500 this year as well, driving his own #92 Ford. "17-Tanner Berryhill" Matt DiBenedetto tested at Daytona in January driving the #37, so look for Berryhill's team to run two cars at the season opener. 2331. The Long Shot posted: 02.12.2014 - 12:45 am Rate this comment: (2) (0) I'm honestly shocked that I forgot about this. I thought someone else would have brought it up by now... 20 years ago, we lost one of the most underrated drivers in NASCAR history. 18 wins, 156 top-10 finishes, 20 poles. Those are HOF-worthy numbers. And yet when people are asked to name the best drivers in NASCAR history, this man is often left unmentioned. This can only be described as preposterous. Tonight, though, we salute him: a man who suffered seemingly career-ending injuries in 1990 and was thus forced to turn to the broadcast booth, only to return to racing with his sights set on getting himself back to full-time Winston Cup competition. It is sad that his goal would never come to fruition. Rest in peace, Neil Bonnett. 2332. Kubica fan Ireland posted: 02.12.2014 - 5:27 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone think the 48 team might be broken up by accident with Steve Letarte leaving. Someone tipped Ron Malec Johnson's long time car chief as a potential crew chief for Jr. Giving Rick's close relationship with Jr he may be willing to give this a try. Personally I always had Malec down as the guy who will replace Knaus when he moves upstairs 2333. ch posted: 02.12.2014 - 7:29 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://forums.nascarthegame.com/threads/9073-Official-2014-NASCAR-Paint-Scheme-Thread?p=378533&viewfull=1#post378533 Third picture down on this post shows JR's #88 TaxSlayer car. Its got the front grill opening for Daytona, so if JR's in this, and Harvick doesn't race til Phoenix, then i wonder who will be in the 5? 2334. The Long Shot posted: 02.12.2014 - 10:38 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Unless he has a deal to drive the #33 for RCR (does that car even still exist?), I think Tony Stewart would be the favorite to get into the #5, then. Then again, Johanna Long and Jeb Burton are being contracted into the organization as well, and we haven't heard whether or not Danica is going to run the N'Wide race, so the driver of the #5 remains open. 2335. ch posted: 02.12.2014 - 11:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Expect Brian Keselowski to attempt the 500 this year as well, driving his own #92 Ford." According to Brian's Facebook page, the sponsorship he had lined up is having second thoughts, and he will not be able to make it to any race within 31 days. That's why he wasn't at testing. 2336. Zackary Shawn posted: 02.12.2014 - 11:56 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) What about Kasey Kahne as a possibility in the #5 Nationwide car at Daytona? I don't think it will be either Johanna Long or Jeb Burton, though. 2337. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.12.2014 - 12:10 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Tony Stewart is NOT running the NNS race this year. No sense in him running a needless restrictor plate race when he's still not at 100%. 2338. Anonymous posted: 02.12.2014 - 3:34 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Add Danica Patrick to the #30 TSM Nationwide Entry. So it looks like the NNS entry list will be up to 46 cars. 2339. murb posted: 02.12.2014 - 3:58 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It'll probably be Kahne if they do end up running the 5 car. I didn't mention it when the story first came out, but I really hope Jeb and Johanna do get those races with JRM. I think JRM has probably been the best when it comes to giving up and comers chances (Brad Keselowski, Aric Almirola, Cole Whitt, etc), so I hope it continues with Jeb and Johanna. 2340. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.12.2014 - 4:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) http://www.jrmracing.com/racing/schedule/default.aspx Check JR Motorsports schedule page, looking through all the races it doesn't appear that the #5 will run at Daytona. 2341. Anonymous posted: 02.12.2014 - 5:49 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Cole Whitt now has Speed Stick Gear as sponsor for the Daytona 500. 2342. ch posted: 02.12.2014 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was hoping the 5 would be full time, but based off that schedule, it looks like the 5 will be part time. On a side note, it looks like almost all of the 500 cars are sponsored! The only one's that don't have one yet are 30, 36, 40, 52, 77, 87, and 98. 2343. The Long Shot posted: 02.13.2014 - 10:07 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) 47 cars now on the (speculative) Nationwide entry list: Scott Lagasse will attempt the race in a second RAB Racing car. 2344. murb posted: 02.13.2014 - 2:38 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Yeley to the 44 is now official. 2345. Jim Davis posted: 02.13.2014 - 3:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Is this year's Battle of the Beach going to have a late model race on Monday like the Whelan All-American race last year? I've checked my TV listings and online but can't find anything. Did the late model race not make the cut this year? 2346. DB1995 posted: 02.13.2014 - 3:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) i don't think the late models are racing, I would hate to see it anyway it was a wreckfest until the final 30 laps or so then we had Larsons BS to end it 2347. 23andJoe posted: 02.13.2014 - 4:43 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ^ And with a new year, yet another number change... Daytona 500 Entry List is out. 49 cars. (Yeley in the 44 will start at either Las Vegas (Jayski) or Phoenix (everyone else).) Owner points changes: #29 = #3 #39 = #4 #93 = #23 #56 = #55 #66 = #55 #19 = #77 Notable entries: Bayne in the #21 Terry Labonte in the #32 Brian Scott in the #33 Eric McClure in the #35 Cassill in the #40 Bobby Labonte in the #52 Waltrip in the #66 Nemechek in the #87 Morgan Shepherd in the #93 2348. startandparkfan posted: 02.13.2014 - 5:37 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Good sized field this year! Sad that Shepherd probably won't make it, but he probably would have parked anyway. 2349. The Long Shot posted: 02.13.2014 - 6:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Why 23, 23andJoe? Is Reuti still affiliated with the team? 2350. An Aussie Commentator posted: 02.13.2014 - 6:41 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) The Only ones left for sponsors are #30, #40, #77 and #98 Sorenson's Sponsor is Golden Corrall B. Labonte's Sponsor is Phoenix Construction Nemechek's Sponsor is 300 Rise of an Empire "Why 23, 23andJoe? Is Reuti still affiliated with the team?" No, BK Racing switched to 23 I think on the request of Alex Bowman, Reutimann is no longer affiliated with BK Racing. 2351. Daniel posted: 02.13.2014 - 6:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I though BK switched to 23 due to their being 23 different flavors used in Dr. Pepper. 2352. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.13.2014 - 7:22 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Is this year's Battle of the Beach going to have a late model race on Monday like the Whelan All-American race last year?" No, just K&N East and Modifieds this year. 2353. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.13.2014 - 8:57 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) With all the BS about Danica and Petty's remarks, I have to agree with the King on this one, even if he may have been a bit 'to' literal. Danica has shown time and time again that she seems lost on any track that isn't a short oval (Bristol and Martinsville) or a Super-Speedway. Otherwise, she has not shown anything noteworthy enough for me, and apparently Richard 'Dick' Petty, to believe she is a viable threat to win a race by 'normal' means. Do I think she'll win a race in NASCAR's top division? Yes. It will either come at Daytona, Martinsville, or in a Fuel Mileage showdown. I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks that. I don't care if the remarks are 'Straight out of the 1950's' or not. Sometimes you have to call the tomato a fruit even if everyone else swears it's a vegetable. - That said, if you guys could control the set-up of the Bud Shootout (I will never get out of the habit of calling it Bud Shootout, just like I'll always call the trucks the 'Craftsman' truck series and Charlotte 'Lowes Motor Speedway') Completely, what would you do? Me? I'd take a 30 lap segment, give a small cash prize to the of that segment, Give the teams about 10 minutes to work on the cars in any way they desire as long as it follows the NASCAR rule book, then reverse the field. Go another 30 laps, Another slightly-larger cash prize to the winner of that event. Between Segment 2 and 3 make a mandatory fuel pit stop for everyone on the lead lap (tires are optional as is everything else). Caution laps count as normal laps in this segment. Then, for the final segment, a 15 lap sprint. Caution Flag laps are not counted, unless shown on the white flag lap if the crash is between the leaders and the start/finish line (Example: Crash occurs in Turn 4 while leaders are going down the backstretch, caution). 2354. ch posted: 02.13.2014 - 9:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) BK Racing switched to #23 at Dr. Pepper's request. Also, the #52 is still unsponsored, it's just got the Phoenix Construction there since Finch is a big part of HScott's second team. 2355. 23andJoe posted: 02.13.2014 - 9:31 pm Rate this comment: (3) (0) >Why 23, 23andJoe? Is Reuti still affiliated with the team? Since Reut is out of a ride this year, I'm pulling for Bowman. 2356. jabber1990 posted: 02.14.2014 - 12:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) as much as I like inverting the field I have a way to prevent sandbagging I like Destroyahirismix666's idea, BUT invert everyone except for the first and last place cars, it prevents sandbagging to a degree. this way it will be literally be "if you ain't first you're last" 2357. TheHardTruth2177 posted: 02.14.2014 - 1:22 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) To clear up the confusion about the JR Motorsports (JRM) #5 Car, JRM is going to be running the #88 car for the first three races of the year with Junior driving at Daytona and Las Vegas, and Harvick driving it at Phoenix. After those 3 races, the #88 car will be renumbered to the #5 and (hopefully) run the rest of the season with Harvick, Kahne, Fellows, Long, and Jeb Burton. 2358. Paul posted: 02.14.2014 - 2:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Post #2357 is correct. Beginning at Bristol (the 4th race of the season), the #88 car will be renumbered to #5, where it will compete in at least 13 of the remaining 30 Nationwide Series races (12 with Kevin Harvick, 1 with TBA at Daytona in July), per the JR Motorsports website. And at Texas in April, JR Motorsports will field four entries, with Harvick in the #5 and Dale Earnhardt, Jr. in the #88, along with full-time drivers Regan Smith and Chase Elliott. A team press release announced that Kasey Kahne would be driving for the team this season, but so far no races have been announced. My guess is that Kahne will drive in all the remaining Cup/Nationwide companion weekend races, Ron Fellows will drive at Road America and Mid-Ohio, and Johanna Long and/or Jeb Burton will drive at the non-companion weekend races. Of course, all of this is pending on sponsorship for the 17 Nationwide races that do not have a driver/sponsor listed for the #5/#88 team. At the very least, I hope that Long and Burton each get their opportunity to drive for this team, considering how neither driver currently has a full-time NASCAR ride this season. 2359. murb posted: 02.14.2014 - 2:40 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jeff Gordon says he'll retire after this year if he wins the championship. 2360. murb posted: 02.14.2014 - 2:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Also, Ron Hornaday will drive the #30 for Turner in the Daytona Truck race. 2361. startandparkfan posted: 02.14.2014 - 4:55 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Does anyone know what happened to Gerhart? I was watching the live scoring on ARCA's website, and he was on the pole, but now it says Kwasniewski won the pole and Gerhart isn't even on the starting lineup! Did he withdraw or something? 2362. TS1420 posted: 02.14.2014 - 4:56 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff Gordon says he'll retire after this year if he wins the championship." I wish it was Jimmie Johnson saying that. 2363. startandparkfan posted: 02.14.2014 - 5:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Never mind, his time was disallowed. 2364. Eric posted: 02.14.2014 - 5:18 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't think it is likely that Jeff would win his 5th cup championship. Jeff has been the downside of his cup career since 2008 and hasn't been quite the same driver after the Las Vegas crash of 2008. 2365. 23andJoe posted: 02.14.2014 - 5:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ARCA qualifying: Gerhart had an issue with the U-bolts on his car leading to his time being disallowed. He's not happy. Lelani Munter and Justin Boston also had their times disallowed due to spring infractions. 2366. SpeedWorld97 posted: 02.14.2014 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sounds like DW had surgery earlier this week. Unfortunately replacing him in the booth for tomorrow's race will be his biased, 10x more obnoxious brother Michael. 2367. 23andJoe posted: 02.14.2014 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Tyler Reddick and Spencer Gallagher were also DQ'd following ARCA qualifying. 2368. murb posted: 02.14.2014 - 6:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (1) I swear, a high school news channel could do a better job running a network than these Fox Sports 1 tools. I've lost track of how many random commercial cuts and random blaring theme music I've seen today. They're clearly not prepared to compete with ESPN like they think they are. 2369. 18fan posted: 02.14.2014 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) And their ratings prove that. 2370. joey2448 posted: 02.14.2014 - 7:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Whattya think guys, can Wonder Boy win a fifth championship and complete his "Drive for Five"? If he can do it, I'd be perfectly fine with him retiring and going out a champion. And I'm a diehard Jeff Gordon fan. I also find it funny that Jeff said he looks at his four championship trophies, which read "Winston Cup" on them, and he would like to win a Sprint Cup trophy. I like that he's not afraid to differentiate between the two (because IMO the Winston Cup is a much more impressive trophy). And who knows, maybe he'll do it this year. I mean, now that he's saying he'll retire when he wins another title, maybe Rick Hendrick will actually give him a competitive car (so he can get rid of him). 2371. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.14.2014 - 7:36 pm Rate this comment: (1) (1) "And who knows, maybe he'll do it this year. I mean, now that he's saying he'll retire when he wins another title, maybe Rick Hendrick will actually give him a competitive car (so he can get rid of him). " I concur. Hendrick has been trying to make the door hit Jeff in the ass so hard it is not even funny. Give it another couple of years and you'll probably see Jimmie getting the same abuse in favor of someone like Chase Elliott (who has an even blander personality with an even higher sense of entitlement *shudders*). 2372. The Long Shot posted: 02.14.2014 - 7:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 5 ARCA qualifying times were disallowed (Bobby Gerhart, Justin Boston, Spencer Gallagher, Leilani Munter, and Tyler Reddick), but the only one of the bunch that will miss the race is Gallagher (Brent Cross and Austin Wayne Self also failed to qualify). 2373. Eric posted: 02.14.2014 - 7:54 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) joey2448, I think it is very unlikely for Jeff to get a 5th cup championship. Jeff is in the stage as Rusty Wallace (1997-2005), Richard Petty (1980-1987), Bobby Allison (1984-1988) Dale Earnhardt Sr (1995-2001), Darrell Waltrip (1986-1995 Winston All Star Race), and Buck Baker (1958-1964) were in. These cup drivers I mentioned were former cup championships that were competitive, but were not at their best anymore in the years in the time period I am mentioning to these drivers. I am not ruling out Jeff winning races, but he is not at his peak anymore and his skills are declining. Jeff's strength isn't at mile and half tracks at this point of his career despite winning at Homestead in 2012. Jeff right now is aging worse as a cup driver than Matt Kenseth is. 2374. Eric posted: 02.14.2014 - 9:14 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) NicoRosbergFan, I don't think Rick is stupid enough to give your claim of Jimmie getting the same abuse as Jeff does in favor of someone like Chase Elliott in a couple years because Rick doesn't have anybody else in development. Don't mention Kyle Larson to me, he's under contract with Chip. The fact is if Rick wants Jimmie gone in a couple years, he will be getting a cup driver from another team and I think it would be from one of the currently also ran teams in cup like a Cole Witt. I am saying that because HMS is getting older right now for drivers. The thing is some cup drivers are capable of being winning races their 40's on a regular basis unless the driver got a major injury, suddenly getting subpar equipment, or being a driver/owner. 2375. 23andJoe posted: 02.14.2014 - 9:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) > (Brent Cross and Austin Wayne Self also failed to qualify) Austin Wayne Self is actually too young to compete at Daytona, but ran a few practice laps in order to meet ARCA's requirements re: running the full season. 2376. jabber1990 posted: 02.14.2014 - 10:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Jeff right now is aging worse as a cup driver than Matt Kenseth is." I wonder what would happen if Jeff got the same chance Kenseth got: a change of scenery. It worked well for Mark Martin (NEARLY winning the 2007 Daytona 500, nearly winning the title in 2009) Matt Kenseth (2013) Joey Logano, and one could even argue Tony Stewart 2377. Eric posted: 02.14.2014 - 10:30 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Jabber1990, There is one thing to keep in mind. Matt, Joey and Tony Stewart didn't had any major injuries on the cup level before they had change of scenery unlike Jeff Gordon. Jeff Gordon had a nasty wreck at Las Vegas in 2008 that caused him to have a back injury that didn't heal before the 2010 season over and he was complaining a lot in 2010 about his back matter of fact. Jeff isn't quite the same driver since that injury and I don't think a change of scenery would change that. While Jeff is now healthy, he is slowing down at the bigger tracks and I don't think HMS equipment he is given is the full reason either. While Mark did get hurt at the summer 1999 Daytona race, Mark never changed as a driver at the time he left Roush despite having a his left wrist, fractured a rib and bruised a knee in a crash from the summer Daytona 1999 race practice and his past back problems. 2378. NicoRosbergFan posted: 02.15.2014 - 10:39 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sprint Unlimited is tonight! Be there or be square! *slowly morphs into an icosahedron* 2379. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.15.2014 - 12:24 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) IN response to NicoRosbergFan's Commetn #2378, I need to see If I can work myself into a pentagram. 2380. startandparkfan posted: 02.15.2014 - 2:20 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) CBS Sports will broadcast ARCA live from Winchester, Madison, and Elko. 2381. murb posted: 02.15.2014 - 2:48 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Hendrick engines are grenading left and right in 500 practice. Bobby Labonte, Tony Stewart, and now Danica have all blown up. 2382. Jim Davis posted: 02.15.2014 - 4:28 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) ARCA won't be the same without Milka Duno in the field. She added that unpredictability that racing needs. 2383. New14 & 88Fan posted: 02.15.2014 - 4:42 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I was just about to say ARCA was putting on a good wreck-free show, and sure enough we have the big one. 2384. murb posted: 02.15.2014 - 4:46 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I'm sure that's not the first one. 2385. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.15.2014 - 5:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) FINALLY Found teh D@nm RACE! 2386. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.15.2014 - 5:07 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) And when I come in, a two car wreck unfolds. We're not quite 30 laps in. 2387. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.15.2014 - 5:15 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I don't know all of ARCA's rules, but Bobby Gehrat jumped ahead two spots before the field came to the green. Wouldn't that mean he should be penalized? 2388. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.15.2014 - 5:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I've never seen so many passes on the outside of an ARCA Daytona race...but I've only watched the 2012 adn 2013 races before...so, yeahhh. 2389. Schroeder51 posted: 02.15.2014 - 5:44 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Kody Weisner is in the infield and the caution comes out. 2390. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.15.2014 - 5:50 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Restart with roughly 8 laps to go...I smell a big one, because ARCA had double-file restarts now. 2391. Schroeder51 posted: 02.15.2014 - 5:52 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Now Ed Pompa has spun out under the caution flag. 2392. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.15.2014 - 5:53 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Under caution, Ed Pompa in the 09 blows an engine 2393. Anonymous posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:03 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Typical shitty ending for this race. 2394. Destroyahirismix666 posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:04 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Grant Enfinger wins the event. Kimmel has his third 2nd place at Daytona, still no wins. After slapping the wall earlier, Bobby Gerhart was able to make it back into the top 6 at the end. 2395. startandparkfan posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Great for Enfinger, he was always one of my favorite drivers. So happy to see stock cars on track once again in 2014!!!!!!! 2396. BluesTravelerFan posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Webmaster, will there be an new comment page open for the Unlimited tonight, or do we just stay here during the race? 2397. We need more Onion posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:06 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It was okay, at least a proper ARCA driver won, not someone with a huge budget behind him. Congrats to Grant. WTG Kwasniewski, strongest car from the pole... 14th. 2398. murb posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Pretty uneventful race, but congrats to Grant Enfinger. I've always liked him, and I wish a good team would give him a shot in a Truck or NNS ride. 2399. Schroeder51 posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:09 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Congratulations to Enfinger. Nice to see an ARCA regular win this race rather than the young guns with their big budgets running to get experience for the upper levels... Not the most exciting finish to a race ever, but then again, I've kind of become used to seeing this kind of finish in Daytona ARCA races. 2400. Schroeder51 posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:12 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I agree, murb. Enfinger has performed very well in ARCA over the years and I have wondered for quite a while how he might do if he got a shot to race in the upper levels. He might do well if he could get with a decent team. Great run for Martinsville Speedway president Clay Campbell-3rd place in Ken Schrader's car! 2401. murb posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:13 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "will there be an new comment page open for the Unlimited tonight, or do we just stay here during the race?" I'm guessing that the Unlimited page will go up once the starting lineup is announced. 2402. BluesTravelerFan posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:21 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Thanks murb. Hopefully we get a decent race tonight, I think the 1/2 inch more spoiler should help some with passing, but I'm just not sure it was enough of a change. Almost anything would be better than last years Daytona races(especially during speedweeks). 2403. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:23 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "WTG Kwasniewski, strongest car from the pole... 14th." He got shuffled out of the draft by Chase Elliott while in the top 3 and the outside line went nowhere all race. 2404. BluesTravelerFan posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:36 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) I see the Unlimited page is already up! Thanks Webmaster! 2405. webmaster posted: 02.15.2014 - 6:38 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) No problem -- not much to see there yet though. :-) 2406. Chad's Hair Plugs posted: 02.15.2014 - 7:00 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) It would've been nice to see Frank Kimmel finally break his Daytona streak. I don't know why I expect to see anything amazing at the ARCA Daytona race, it seems like its near impossible to pass on a consistent basis. 2407. We need more Onion posted: 02.16.2014 - 2:19 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) ""WTG Kwasniewski, strongest car from the pole... 14th." He got shuffled out of the draft by Chase Elliott while in the top 3 and the outside line went nowhere all race. " Choosing the wrong line was entirely his own fault tbh. Very solid qualifying runs by the TBR cars and Mears for the 500. Sorenson is lower midfield, while Annett is better than the Gibbs cars and Casey should be top 10 with his time. Morgan is on the track... 2408. Dave #38 Fan-Go Gilliland! posted: 02.17.2014 - 12:31 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) "Choosing the wrong line was entirely his own fault tbh." No it wasn't. Elliott made a hole and completely left him out to dry. Later in the race Elliott said over the radio that he wished that he had the #4 to draft with because no one up front would work with him and the #4 was the only car strong enough to have helped him. Elliott's bonehead move cost both cars a chance to win. 2409. Anonymous posted: 03.30.2015 - 10:59 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) This could have very well been the final cup race for both Mark Martin and Elliott Sadler. 2410. Nu3clear Wa4le posted: 08.22.2015 - 8:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Sponsor update #16 - 3M Fan Appreciation / #StickwithBiff 2411. Braindead Zombie posted: 04.20.2016 - 6:27 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Final career start (as of now) for: Mark Martin Elliott Sadler Ken Schrader Tony Raines Also the last start as a full-time driver for: Jeff Burton Juan Pablo Montoya David Reutimann Travis Kvapil Dave Blaney Joe Nemechek 2412. Braindead Zombie posted: 04.28.2016 - 12:49 pm Rate this comment: (1) (0) Wow, there were 17 different winners in 2013. Never realized that. 2413. Maverick19 posted: 11.23.2016 - 10:05 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) 2013 Sprint Cup Series Standings with 1983-2003 CART Points System 1. Jimmie Johnson- 308 2. Kyle Busch- 276 (-32) 3. Matt Kenseth- 273 (-35) 4. Kevin Harvick- 213 (-95) 5. Dale Earnhardt, Jr.- 207 (-101) 6. Kasey Kahne- 201 (-107) 7. Joey Logano- 192 (-116) 8. Jeff Gordon- 182 (-126) 9. Brad Keselowski- 180 (-128) 10. Clint Bowyer- 176 (-132) 11. Kurt Busch- 175 (-133) 12. Carl Edwards- 171 (-137) 13. Martin Truex, Jr.- 147 (-161) 14. Ryan Newman- 128 (-180) 15. Greg Biffle- 113 (-195) 16. Denny Hamlin- 90 (-218) 17. Jamie McMurray- 90 (-218) 18. Tony Stewart- 87 (-221) 19. Juan Pablo Montoya- 79 (-229) 20. Paul Menard- 64 (-244) 21. Brian Vickers- 54 (-254) 22. Jeff Burton- 48 (-260) 23. Marcos Ambrose- 34 (-274) 24. Mark Martin- 32 (-276) 25. Aric Almirola- 32 (-276) 26. David Ragan- 29 (-279) 27. Ricky Stenhouse, Jr.- 29 (-279) 28. David Gilliland- 22 (-286) 29. Michael Waltrip- 22 (-286) 30. Regan Smith- 14 (-294) 31. Danica Patrick- 7 (-301) 32. Casey Mears - 5 (-303) 33. A.J. Allmendinger- 5 (-303) 34. Michael McDowell- 4 (-304) 35. Scott Speed- 4 (-304) 36. J.J. Yeley- 3 (-305) 37. Austin Dillon- 2 (-306) 38. David Stremme- 1 (-307) Everyone else scored no points. 2414. RaceFanX posted: 02.18.2017 - 10:28 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Michael McDowell's last race in the #98 Ford ends in a last place start and park like so many of the others. 2415. Truexfan78 posted: 04.18.2017 - 9:01 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) Last cup race to have the champion not win the race as of now 2416. kup posted: 11.02.2017 - 10:35 am Rate this comment: (0) (0) UPS: universal points system. Driver's UPoints = Miles / Aver.Finish 2013 UPS: # Driver UPts = Miles / AF 1 Jimmie Johnson 1273 = 13626 / 10,7 2 Kevin Harvick 1178 = 13194 / 11,2 3 Clint Bowyer 1155 = 13748 / 11,9 4 Matt Kenseth 1119 = 13540 / 12,1 5 Dale Earnhardt, Jr. 1071 = 13492 / 12,6 6 Kyle Busch 1036 = 13151 / 12,7 7 Carl Edwards 999 = 13589 / 13,6 8 Greg Biffle 942 = 13567 / 14,4 9 Kurt Busch 942 = 13843 / 14,7 10 Joey Logano 938 = 13229 / 14,1 11 Jeff Gordon 910 = 13110 / 14,4 - #24-chase show-cheating TOTAL: UPS! 13 seasons 2001-2013: J.Gordon 4 in: 01, 04, 07, 09. C.Edwards 2 in: 08, 11. J.Johnson 2 in: 06, 13. M.Martin 1 in: 02. M.Kenseth 1 in: 03. T.Stewart 1 in: 05. K.Harvick 1 in: 10. B.Keselowski 1 in: 12. 2417. kup posted: 11.16.2017 - 3:47 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) TOTAL: UPS! 65 years 1949-2013: Dale Earnhardt 8 in: '80, '86, '87, '89, '91, '93, '94, '95. Richard Petty 7 in: '63, '64, '67, '71, '72, '75, '79. Lee Petty 5 in: '50, '52, '54, '58, '59. Jeff Gordon 5 in: '98, '01, '04, '07, '09. David Pearson 4 in: '66, '68, '69, '76. Cale Yarborough 3 in: '74, '77, '78. Bobby Allison 3 in: '81, '82, '83. Mark Martin 3 in: '90, '97, '02. Buck Baker 2 in: '56, '57. Rex White 2 in: '60, '61. Terry Labonte 2 in: '84, '96. Carl Edwards 2 in: '08, '11. Jimmie Johnson 2 in: '06, '13. Bill Blair 1 in: '49. Fonty Flock 1 in: '51. Herb Thomas 1 in: '53. Tim Flock 1 in: '55. Joe Weatherly 1 in: '62. Ned Jarrett 1 in: '65. Bobby Isaac 1 in: '70. Benny Parsons 1 in: '73. Darrell Waltrip 1 in: '85. Bill Elliott 1 in: '88. Alan Kulwicki 1 in: '92. Dale Jarrett 1 in: '99. Bobby Labonte 1 in: '00. Matt Kenseth 1 in: '03. Tony Stewart 1 in: '05. Kevin Harvick 1 in: '10. Brad Keselowski 1 in: '12. 2418. Steve posted: 11.29.2018 - 10:10 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Just 5 years later, half these drivers are retired or no longer active in NASCAR's top series. 2419. QFH posted: 02.11.2021 - 6:39 pm Rate this comment: (0) (0) Up to this point (2013), only 7 times had the season champion won the finale in 65 years (Tim Flock 1955, Buck Baker 1956 and 1957, Ned Jarrett 1965, Richard Petty 1971, Jeff Gordon 1998, Tony Stewart 2011). The next 7 years the champion would win the finale thanks to the playoff format. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Post a comment:* Your comment may not appear immediately - all comments must be approved by the moderator. Name: Comment: